# Schiit Jotunheim Review / Preview - Head-Fi TV



## jude

NOTE:  If you can't see the embedded video above, please *CLICK HERE* to see the video.​


 In this episode of Head-Fi TV, we get a first look at the new Schiit Audio Jotunheim, which Schiit is calling a configurable balanced headphone amp and preamp--or even a "configurable desktop center"--but that most of us will probably end up calling something else.

 
Products mentioned and/or shown in the video:

*Schiit Audio Jotunheim* configurable balanced headphone amp and preamp
*Schiit Audio Fulla* portable USB DAC/amp
*Schiit Audio Magni 2* amplifier
*Schiit Audio Modi 2* DAC
*Schiit Audio Bifrost* DAC
*Ultrasone Tribute 7* over-ear headphone
*HiFiMAN HE-6* over-ear headphone
*beyerdynamic T1 2nd Generation* over-ear headphone
*Sennheiser HD 800* over-ear headphone
*Sennheiser HD 800S* over-ear headphone
*Schiit Audio Ragnarok* desktop amplifier
*Schiit Audio Yggdrasil* DAC
*Westone ES60 Custom* custom in-ear monitor
*Jerry Harvey Audio Siren Series Roxanne* custom in-ear monitor
*Noble Audio Kaiser 10* custom in-ear monitor
*beyerdynamic + Astell&Kern AK T8iE* universal-fit in-ear monitor
*Sennheiser IE 800* universal-fit in-ear monitor
*FitEar MH334* custom in-ear monitor
*HiFiMAN HE1000* planar magnetic, over-ear headphone
*Focal Elear* over-ear headphone
*Focal Utopia* over-ear headphone
*MrSpeakers ETHER Flow* open, over-ear headphone
*ETHER C Flow* closed, over-ear headphone
*Audeze LCD-4* open, planar magnetic over-ear headphone
*ENIGMAcoustics Dharma D-1000* electrostatic over-ear headphone
*beyerdynamic DT 1990 PRO* over-ear headphone
*HiFiMAN Edition X* over-ear headphone
*AudioQuest NightHawk* over-ear headphone
*Mitchell & Johnson ME2* hybrid electrostatic electrodynamic over-ear headphone
*Schiit Audio Mjolnir 2* desktop tube amplifier
*Schiit Audio Gungnir* desktop DAC
*Fostex TH900mk2* over-ear headphone
 
_Schiit Audio Jotunheim - Head-Fi TV _produced by Joseph Cwik and Jude Mansilla


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## TMoney

Great video, Jude. Thanks for sharing.


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## cyclops214

Wow can't believe you released this a day early before the official announcement.


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## Rexr3

Great video !
  
 I might need to get one of these now.


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## kurochin

I've been waiting for something like this ever since I first discovered Schiit. As a FitEar owner (MH335DW), colour me extremely interested. One question though, Jude;
 You mention lowest possible gain is with single ended input and output, but with the DAC module being balanced input, I wonder if you tested your FitEar MH334 with the Jotunheim running as an amp alone, or with the DAC module converting bits as well?


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## zabzaf

Nice review! Can't wait to hear it. Thanks Jude.


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## krumley7882

Schiit Yes!!!


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## jude

kurochin said:


> I've been waiting for something like this ever since I first discovered Schiit. As a FitEar owner (MH335DW), colour me extremely interested. One question though, Jude;
> You mention lowest possible gain is with single ended input and output, but with the DAC module being balanced input, I wonder if you tested your FitEar MH334 with the Jotunheim running as an amp alone, or with the DAC module converting bits as well?


 
  
@kurochin, that's with the built-in DAC.
  
 By the way, here's the gain breakdown (based on input-output configurations):
  

SE in, SE out, low gain  2
SE in, SE out, high gain  4.7
SE in, balanced out, low gain 2.1
SE in, balanced out, high gain 7.4
balanced in, SE out, low gain  1.1
balanced in, SE out, high gain  3.75
balanced in, balanced out, low gain 2.2
balanced in, balanced out, high gain 7.5
  
 Again, both the DAC module and phono module are fully balanced, so either would constituted _balanced-in_.


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## GrouchoMarx1933

Does the USB on the optional DAC use the gen 2 or gen 3 implementation? I would hope for gen 3 since the USB is the only input.


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## Shogster

I really should have waited before jumping on a new amp/dac. And i just ordered a Magni.. damn it.


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## jude

merrick said:


> Does the USB on the optional DAC use the gen 2 or gen 3 implementation? I would hope for gen 3 since the USB is the only input.


 
  
 I've been in Denmark the past week for the AES Headphone Technology conference (which was awesome, by the way), so I'll have to check when I get home.
  
 Perhaps someone from Schiit can chime in sooner.


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## CaveManta

My mom noticed the Jotunheim as I was watching the video, and she asked, "What's that box-looking thing?" XP


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## krumley7882

cavemanta said:


> My mom noticed the Jotunheim as I was watching the video, and she asked, "What's that box-looking thing?" XP


 

 if she only knew!!!!!


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## akg fanboy

Not as game changing as I was hyping but still a very much necessary product line from schiit. Not many amp/dac combos for $400 let alone with the capability of driving the he-6, I think schiit may have produced the best amp/dac combo in this price range.


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## CaveManta

krumley7882 said:


> if she only knew!!!!!



I tried to explain it to her, but it was just impossible. All I could think of was, "It's just a headphone..amplifier..thing." She must think I'm crazy.


Spoiler: More Silliness



My brother-in-law jokingly asked about the stack of Schiit, "What's with the stack of xboxes?"


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## raybone0566

akg fanboy said:


> Not as game changing as I was hyping but still a very much necessary product line from schiit. Not many amp/dac combos for $400 let alone with the capability of driving the he-6, I think schiit may have produced the best amp/dac combo in this price range.


Seriously doubt this will drive the he-6 properly. Very innovative on schiits part though


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## krumley7882

cavemanta said:


> I tried to explain it to her, but it was just impossible. All I could think of was, "It's just a headphone..amplifier..thing." She must think I'm crazy.


 

 HAHA  Totally!  Cheers, friend!


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## ButtUglyJeff

jude said:


> @kurochin, that's with the built-in DAC.
> 
> By the way, here's the gain breakdown (based on input-output configurations):
> 
> ...


 
  
 Interesting.  The numbers out for balanced are similar weather its being fed single ended or balanced.  Very interesting indeed...


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## koven

seems like a good value, quite versatile


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## BarDash

Release date? Thanks...


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## Delayeed

Better than a Chord Mojo? lol


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## CaveManta

I bet that if the Jotunheim DAC module included optical and coaxial digital inputs, Modi 2 sales would decrease significantly. I wonder if that's one reason it only features USB input.


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## owatito

Great amp to replace my mstage usb


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## i20bot

cavemanta said:


> I tried to explain it to her, but it was just impossible. All I could think of was, "It's just a headphone..amplifier..thing." She must think I'm crazy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Should have told her there was Schiit in the box.


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## DigMe

Cool. Was this an agreement with Schiit for you to announce this a day before their big announcement?


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## MattTCG

Very nice!! Available date?


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## heliosphann

delayeed said:


> Better than a Chord Mojo? lol


 
 Zeos says what?!?


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## Vigrith

matttcg said:


> Very nice!! Available date?


 
  
 Would also like to know! Looks awesome.


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## scottcocoabeach

I had just started to research a desktop amp that would also work with with sensitive IEMs. Looks like I just found the solution. Thanks Schiit!


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## scottcocoabeach

akg fanboy said:


> Not as game changing as I was hyping but still a very much necessary product line from schiit. Not many amp/dac combos for $400 let alone with the capability of driving the he-6, I think schiit may have produced the best amp/dac combo in this price range.




If I understood correctly I think it's an extra $100 for the DAC option so $500 for the combo model and $400 for amp only. I'm planning on the amp only version coupled with the Modi Multibit. Not interested in a DS DAC but I'm sure it will be very good for the $ for those who don't want to spend the additional amount for the Multibit (although I'd recommend it).


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## XERO1

digme said:


> Cool. Was this an agreement with Schiit for you to announce this a day before their big announcement?


 
  
 It's not on Schiit's website yet, so I'd say it's a day early.  Whoops!


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## Mediahound

vigrith said:


> Would also like to know! Looks awesome.




 Very likely tomorrow. Schiit does not pronounce stuff for future ship.


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## Mirakoolz

Anyone know the specs of the USB Dac
 Chipset, bitrate, samplerate etc?


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## GrouchoMarx1933

It's an AKM4490, I would say expect similar sound to the Modi 2 4490.


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## disastermouse

Weird to see the word 'Jotunheim'. I'm writing a book (urban fantasy) that deals with the Jotnar and Jotunheim a lot. Kinda goofy that they went with the ice giants instead of the typical nordic god stuff.


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## Vigrith

disastermouse said:


> Weird to see the word 'Jotunheim'. I'm writing a book (urban fantasy) that deals with the Jotnar and Jotunheim a lot. Kinda goofy that they went with the ice giants instead of the typical nordic god stuff.


 
  
 I think it's sick that they went with Jotunheim, it's a pretty interesting name too considering its features - it's more of a domain than a God or a weapon. I find the Ice Giants part of Norse Mythology very interesting so I'm loving the name!
  
 PS: Kinda fitting that the frost giants from Jotunheim posed a huge threat to Asgard when they stole the Mjolnir considering this new amplifier is direct competition to those devices!


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## pr0ggy

Sold.  Just sent in the 15-day window upgrade RMA for my Magni 2U.


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## disastermouse

vigrith said:


> I think it's sick that they went with Jotunheim, it's a pretty interesting name too considering its features - it's more of a domain than a God or a weapon. I find the Ice Giants part of Norse Mythology very interesting so I'm loving the name!
> 
> PS: Kinda fitting that the frost giants from Jotunheim posed a huge threat to Asgard when they stole the Mjolnir considering this new amplifier is direct competition to those devices!


 

 The way I'm writing it, the jotnar are a persecuted minority, hunted nearly to extinction by brutal and vicious Aesir - a bit like the Native Americans and the Europeans. Loki is in-between, half jotun and half Aesir, mostly crazy. Odin is a power-mad monster.
  
 My main character is a mentally ill (borderline) woman who's been 'transformed' into a jotun (along with her two friends) in an attempt to increase their numbers.


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## ToddRaymond

I nearly ordered a black Asgard 2 this week.  I used to have one, and was very much pleased with it, but then I upgraded beyond it.  Now funds are short, so I had planned to get one again.  Glad I didn't though, as this looks promising!  I'll be super pleased if it has even a _slightly_ more refined sound than an Asgard 2.  This should be a good solution for my super sensitive Ocharaku Kaede II IEMs, and give more juice for my HE-560s than an Asgard would.


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## 394216

I hope they release a multibit dac module for this. This might be the best value balanced setup for me.


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## Vigrith

disastermouse said:


> The way I'm writing it, the jotnar are a persecuted minority, hunted nearly to extinction by brutal and vicious Aesir - a bit like the Native Americans and the Europeans. Loki is in-between, half jotun and half Aesir, mostly crazy. Odin is a power-mad monster.
> 
> My main character is a mentally ill (borderline) woman who's been 'transformed' into a jotun (along with her two friends) in an attempt to increase their numbers.


 
  
 That sounds interesting actually, it's an interesting view. I'd like to be made aware if you ever come out with that book, I'm sure it'd make for a nice read.
  
 Schiit needs to come up with a really good portable multibit DAC/amp (or just an amp), call it Sleipnir and then make some other device (potentially their future RMAF announcement) and call it Heimdallr who is said to have extremely acute hearing - then they'd have most of my favourite elements of Norse Mythology incorporated into their lineup. They (or someone else) could easily come up with some cool storyline(s) to accompany their products now that their range is so broad.


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## Floss99

pr0ggy said:


> Sold.  Just sent in the 15-day window upgrade RMA for my Magni 2U.


 
 I might be reading this incorrectly, but is there an upgrade scheme at schiit?
  
 Or are you sending in your newly bought Magni 2U as it is within the 15-day money back guarantee and buying the jotunheim?
  
 I also have the Magni 2 uber, so if there is an upgrade scheme, I'd be very keen to send mine in!


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## comzee

torpedorag said:


> I hope they release a multibit dac module for this. This might be the best value balanced setup for me.


 
 +1 for this, plz read Schiit. (It might not be possible because of size requirements?)


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## madwolfa

I'm confused - it looks like a souped up Magni, but the size of the chassis is more like Bifrost/Asgard.


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## Verde

I'm looking at my G109A and it's looking back like it's high noon. This Schiit is dangerously tempting.


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## tonykaz

Hello Jude, 
  
 I don't get this design.  
  
 A super powerful Amp when the new Headphones need only .1mlw power,
 A d/s DAC from a Company making it's name with R2R ( Multibit designs ) presumed competitive with the likes of Chord,
 A RIAA/high gain phono-cartridge head amp for a smaller than tiny vinyl World that's already choked up with Phono preamps sitting in everyone's closet collecting dust. ( a good many of them of Audio Research quality levels )
  
 This Jot. probably does everything quite well, as you report but it seems like a solution to a problem that doesn't exist!
  
 Is it a Analog/Digital/Integreted Amp with Mega-Tons of headphone power but not enough for loudspeakers.  Phew, a Unicorn in Zebra Stripes that can pull a plow  or  a headphone version of a Swiss Army Knife?
  
 I'm impressed, we don't see this kind of thing very often.
  
 Tony in Michigan


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## Currawong

torpedorag said:


> I hope they release a multibit dac module for this. This might be the best value balanced setup for me.


 

 I don't recall exactly what Jason said, but I remember something about it not being possible. The multi-bit DACs are too complex and my understanding is that the Mimby is at the limit of what they can sanely squeeze in a small package.


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## Allanmarcus

i wonder how it compares to the Liquid Carbon.


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## Redcarmoose

cavemanta said:


> My mom noticed the Jotunheim as I was watching the video, and she asked, "What's that box-looking thing?" XP


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

tonykaz said:


> Hello Jude,
> 
> I don't get this design.
> 
> ...


 

 Not all headphones need miniscule amounts of power, and not all new headphones need miniscule amounts of power. More power is rarely a bad thing unless it increases noise, which apparently this topology does not.
  
 Schiit's best selling DAC is the Modi 2, which is D/S. Lots of people have praised their D/S DAC versions of the Modi and Bifrost (and probably the Gungnir but not many people mention the D/S Gumby these days). The R2R components cannot physically fit into the space designated for the DAC/phono pre slot, plus it's only $100 more for the expansion, and R2R is generally a more expensive implementation.
  
 If you watched the video you'd notice that this has both SE and balanced preouts, which means this can be used as a preamp. Add the phono stage and you now have a fully functional phono preamp with an excellent pair of headphone outs as well. Lots of people are just now getting into vinyl and head-fi and a device like this will be a very attractive all in one solution.


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## ToddRaymond

The real question of course is, how good will it sound?  It obviously measures _insanely great_-ly.
  
 I gather this new amp topology is a scaled down version of what it's in their upcoming two channel stuff.  It appears to occupy less chassis space than a circlotron would.


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## zept0sec

Having just picked up a Dragonfly Red while considering a Chord Mojo, I approve this offering and look forward to trying it out.


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## MonoOno

Are one of those switches in the front for power? And just to be clear no DAC is included at the $400 price point?


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## Allanmarcus

monoono said:


> Are one of those switches in the front for power? And just to be clear no DAC is included at the $400 price point?


 

 one switch in input. one is gain. Power is on the rear
  
 $399 amp only
  
 I don't know if the pre-out is variable, fixed, or switchable.


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## ToddRaymond

One is a gain switch, the other is the single ended / balanced toggle.


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## Mirakoolz

i really dig it when the power switch is integrated into the volume knob. is there a drawback to such implementation?


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## tonykaz

Mr. Merrick,
  
 You make very good, sensible points.  It is a good implementation. But ( I think ) for the Marketplace of 3 years ago.
  
 Today, I see folks using smart phones for everything with wireless earphone devices purchased as accessories. ( Today's World )
  
 Tomorrow, I see LG V20 phones with quad DAC chipsets and dual headphone jacks.  ( release date Sept.2016 )  These are being announced as Audiophile Phones.
  
 [size=x-small]Converging with these phones are Tyll's new Wall of Fame, having the [/size]three Top Level headphones needing measly power, ( phone capable ) [size=x-small] [/size]
  
 [size=x-small]If these Audiophile ( next generation ) phones can get access to Tidal ( and drive Focal Elears ) we'll be seeing the next NEW important advancement.  [/size]
  
 [size=x-small]Perhaps I'm connecting the dots with a bit of extrapolation but the dots are there to connect, so, I'm figuring the next new 'great' desk-top system will be the next generation phone.[/size]
  
 [size=x-small]You can call me out on this when it doesn't happen. [/size]
  
 [size=x-small]Tony in Michigan[/size]
  
 [size=x-small]ps.  I tried to give my Grandchildren a little Schiit Stack ( I have in my closet ), they turned me down, they use their iPhone's music and little earphones as "their" entire music system. [/size]


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## Allanmarcus

In addition to variable, fixed, or switchable pre-out (I'm guess variable), does plugging in headphones cut power to the pre-outs? I would assume yes, or the preouts are pretty useless when connected to a speaker amp.


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## GrouchoMarx1933

tonykaz said:


> Mr. Merrick,
> 
> You make very good, sensible points.  It is a good implementation. But ( I think ) for the Marketplace of 3 years ago.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Audiophiles are a niche group for sure, but we spend enough to keep these various companies in business. I personally think the Jotunheim is a very clever piece of tech and if it sounds as good or better than my Valhalla 2, I'll be buying one and selling off the Val.
  
 I have an Audeze Sine with Cypher cable for my phone. I think it sounds great. Excellent for portable use. Sometimes in a pinch not bad for desktop use. But my desktop rig sounds worlds better. Most people will be satisfied with $20 earbuds connected to a phone. I don't think we'll see phones replacing desktop setups for the majority of audiophiles.


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## Arthrumus

tonykaz said:


> Mr. Merrick,
> 
> You make very good, sensible points.  It is a good implementation. But ( I think ) for the Marketplace of 3 years ago.
> 
> ...


 
 So basically you are saying that any product Schiit or any dac/amp company makes is obsolete/irrelevant today? That's a pretty bleak outlook. Fortunately I suspect very few will agree with your opinion. This is a niche industry that lives for overkill and cares little about practicality.


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## supabayes

currawong said:


> I don't recall exactly what Jason said, but I remember something about it not being possible. The multi-bit DACs are too complex and my understanding is that the Mimby is at the limit of what they can sanely squeeze in a small package.




This will be an interesting addition in Schiit family especially with the balanced headphone out. However, I think the market could be small if multibit is not possible, then it will be a showstopper for me. 





tonykaz said:


> Hello Jude,
> 
> I don't get this design.
> 
> ...




+1 well put


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## tonykaz

Mr. Arthrumus,
  
 You are probably right about this. It is a tiny niche market. 
  
  I've been around since the 78 Records, I came into headphones at RMAF 2012 when I met Tyll, everyone there had three box portable headphone systems ( including my neighbor Jude ) , Smeggypants's Fostex Moded headphones were the rage.
  
 2015 brought Currowong's Chord Mojo as the "Product of the Year",  Streaming Hi-res is becoming common place, owning CDs is becoming 'old school', technology is moving fast ( perhaps faster than I can keep up ), I skip a couple of generations of advancements and up-grade every two years. Phew !  I still have my Asgard 2, which I think is Outstanding, I have NwAvGuy's Odac which I think is darn good and not needing replacement.  Focal just released the finest transducer ever devised ( perhaps debatable ) in their Utopia headphone, it's ultra efficient in addition to it being more capable than our ears.   
  
 Geez, what's next?   Can our Audiophile stuff keep getting better?  or is the new frontier gonna be: making Audiophile levels of music reproduction available to the Billions of phone users, on the Global Scale?  or both?
  
 I think we'd better buckle our seat belts, we're in for a wild next few years of advancements.  
  
 Not bleak but rather:  fascinating and exciting! 
  
 The new Schiit design doesn't fit with my Calculus.  
  
 Tony in Michigan
  
 ps.  which will you bet on?, the new Schiit design or the LG V20 Audiophile Phone system.


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## Currawong

supabayes said:


> currawong said:
> 
> 
> > I don't recall exactly what Jason said, but I remember something about it not being possible. The multi-bit DACs are too complex and my understanding is that the Mimby is at the limit of what they can sanely squeeze in a small package.
> ...


 
  
 Multibit is possible: You just buy a multibit DAC instead of buying the DAC card.
  
 I think it is easiest if you look at it as a headphone amp/pre-amp that has the option of having a very basic DAC or phono stage included if cost is an issue or only a single box is desirable. 
  
 About power: I assume that the values are Class A/B. Being quite high, I wouldn't be surprised if the amp never goes beyond Class A during actual use.  It's actual performance while listening to, say, complex music with planar headphones will be the real test I reckon.


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## GrouchoMarx1933

Given that the DAC is using AKM4490 chips and benefiting from the larger power supply, I would hope the DAC is at least competitive with the Modi 2 Uber (using USB of course).


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## ToddRaymond

What Currawong said. Also, if the amp itself happens to sound reeeaaally good, at that point it will become obvious why at $399, the thing makes so much sense. We've just been led to believe that everything must be ultra lightweight and a few microns thick. In other words, a giant Yggdrasil-like DAC's not going to fit inside there. So what.


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## Deftone

interesting, subbed.


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## Netrum

Tempting getting the Jotunheim to replace my Asgard 2 instead of the Lyr 2.


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## MattTCG

netrum said:


> Tempting getting the Jotunheim to replace my Asgard 2 instead of the Lyr 2.


 
  
 Lyr 2 is a fine amp and tube rolling make it more apples than oranges to the Jot. Tube rolling allows you to tweak and tailor the amp to your heart's desire. Solid state is what it is. 
  
 The new Jot will certainly have mass appeal to those who are starting out. It also makes a fine work/transportable. I'd like to have it as a back up and work solution.


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## Alex Martin

bardash said:


> Release date? Thanks...


 
 We should be going on sale later this morning.  The production run started last week and we have a good number of units in stock and ready to ship on Monday morning.


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## Mediahound

allanmarcus said:


> In addition to variable, fixed, or switchable pre-out (I'm guess variable), does plugging in headphones cut power to the pre-outs? I would assume yes, or the preouts are pretty useless when connected to a speaker amp.




No other Schiit amp does that. You just unplug the headphones when you want to listen to speakers. When listening to headphones I just turn off the speakers.


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## Alex Martin

cavemanta said:


> I bet that if the Jotunheim DAC module included optical and coaxial digital inputs, Modi 2 sales would decrease significantly. I wonder if that's one reason it only features USB input.


 
 The main reason is physics.  There isn't any more room on the back of the unit to accommodate additional inputs and there isn't any room on the DAC card to handle the additional components required for those inputs.  Jotunheim is by far our most dense amp.  I am still in awe that Jason was able to add on the modular input card.


----------



## Alex Martin

floss99 said:


> I might be reading this incorrectly, but is there an upgrade scheme at schiit?
> 
> Or are you sending in your newly bought Magni 2U as it is within the 15-day money back guarantee and buying the jotunheim?
> 
> I also have the Magni 2 uber, so if there is an upgrade scheme, I'd be very keen to send mine in!


 
 If you are within your 15-day return period we will waive restocking if you are going up the line. For example, you start out with a Magni 2 but realize that what you really wanted was a Valhalla 2, we'll waive restocking on the Magni 2.  You pay shipping both ways.
  
 There is no upgrade for owners outside of the 15-day window.  To offer such an upgrade program beyond the 15-day window would be extremely expensive and would significantly increase the cost of our products.


----------



## Floss99

alex martin said:


> If you are within your 15-day return period we will waive restocking if you are going up the line. For example, you start out with a Magni 2 but realize that what you really wanted was a Valhalla 2, we'll waive restocking on the Magni 2.  You pay shipping both ways.
> 
> There is no upgrade for owners outside of the 15-day window.  To offer such an upgrade program beyond the 15-day window would be extremely expensive and would significantly increase the cost of our products.



Yeah thats what I assumed. Thanks for that.


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## Alex Martin

madwolfa said:


> I'm confused - it looks like a souped up Magni, but the size of the chassis is more like Bifrost/Asgard.


 
 Jotunheim uses a new chassis design that is slightly shorter than the Asgard 2 but has the same width and depth.  It uses a L-bend aluminum top and sits in steel sled in a design similar to the Magni 2 but with some key differences.  The aluminum top doesn't have any exposed screws, we are using recessed PEM fasteners on the top.  Its actually pretty cool- Jason has been working on the refined chassis design for quite a while.  Jotunheim has permanent feet and doesn't use our famous (infamous) adhesive bumpers (although some people may find them in your Jotunheim box- we've been putting feet in to boxes for six years and old habits are hard to break).


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## Yethal

Are Schiit guys okay with this story being featured on the main page before the SchiitShow announcement?


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## MattTCG

alex martin said:


> Jotunheim uses a new chassis design that is slightly shorter than the Asgard 2 but has the same width and depth.  It uses a L-bend aluminum top and sits in steel sled in a design similar to the Magni 2 but with some key differences.  The aluminum top doesn't have any exposed screws, we are using recessed PEM fasteners on the top.  Its actually pretty cool- Jason has been working on the refined chassis design for quite a while.  Jotunheim has permanent feet and doesn't use our famous (infamous) adhesive bumpers (although some people may find them in your Jotunheim box- we've been putting feet in to boxes for six years and old habits are hard to break).


 
  
 What is the total length of the chassis?


----------



## Alex Martin

tonykaz said:


> Hello Jude,
> 
> I don't get this design.
> 
> ...


 
 Tony,
  
 Jotunheim is a product that is versatile as possible and that will be useful to the greatest number of customers.  Quiet enough to drive IEMs and powerful enough to drive old-school power-hungry headphones.  Jotunheim is a single amp to drive almost any headphone or IEM in your collection.  It also has the option of adding in a balanced-DAC or a phono stage for $100.


----------



## Alex Martin

matttcg said:


> What is the total length of the chassis?


 
 6" x 9" x 2".  The depth will be a bit longer if you are using the phono module due to the binding post.


----------



## gonzalo1004es

Does anybody know what the balanced input's maximum input level is?


----------



## Redcarmoose

This stands out in the company profile of offerings in that......


1) Desktop balanced out to powered speakers.

2) Balanced out and powers all headphones.

3) Makes a simple one unit clean desktop experience.


----------



## madwolfa

I guess it's a good proposition for someone who'd like a more powerful, fully balanced solution, but wants to stay in Asgard footprint.


----------



## Allanmarcus

mediahound said:


> allanmarcus said:
> 
> 
> > In addition to variable, fixed, or switchable pre-out (I'm guess variable), does plugging in headphones cut power to the pre-outs? I would assume yes, or the preouts are pretty useless when connected to a speaker amp.
> ...




Yikes! That is too bad. Many desktop speaker are not easy to turn off and on. You know, they stupidly put the power switch in the back of the device, assuming the integrated device driving the speakers is smart. 

Are the preouts fixed or variable?


----------



## madwolfa

Now if only there was a fully balanced multibit DAC in Bifrost chassis..


----------



## LepakVT

I think Schiit products are really attractive and I like the single-unit DAC/amp option! I wonder how this will stack up against my Mojo + Liquid Carbon combo.


----------



## Vigrith

madwolfa said:


> Now if only there was a fully balanced multibit DAC in Bifrost chassis..


 
  
 That would be something I'd be very interested in seeing that's for sure.
  
 Very eager to find out later today what Schiit is holding back!


----------



## Psalmanazar

So much negative feedback does the Jotunheim have? I am able to tolerate some treble problems in recordings, headphones, and amps without the steel of negative feedback but on amps like the Magni, my ears ring like a bell even if the recording is warm as hell and I'm using HD 650s. I almost always have to use high frequency trim options on powered monitors to a less than neutral treble volume due to the integrated class AB and D amps.


----------



## Mediahound

allanmarcus said:


> Yikes! That is too bad. Many desktop speaker are not easy to turn off and on. You know, they stupidly put the power switch in the back of the device, assuming the integrated device driving the speakers is smart.
> 
> Are the preouts fixed or variable?




easy issue to fix, just get a remote control power switch for the speakers. The preamp outputs are variable on my Mjolnir 2.


----------



## hugoboss

Hi Jude
 Iam curious about that big tube amp on the left with 845tube or 805 tube
 what is the brand name of that tube amp
 thanks


----------



## xuan87

It seems like Schiit can read my mind... Just when I was contemplating pulling a trigger on a used Bifrost MB, Schiit went and announced the Modi MB. I now have a Modi MB on my desk.
  
 Just last week, I was considering getting another low priced balanced amp to maybe replace what I currently have (it wasn't playing well with all of my headphones and IEMs) but the options are extremely limited. In my very short research, the cheapest balanaced amps I could find are the Aune X7s (about $250) and the Liquid Carbon 1st run ($600 and out of stock, 2nd run at $800). Guys, please correct me if I'm wrong and add if you know of any balanced amp under $500. In any case, both the Aune X7s and Liquid Carbon balanced out but only SE in. 
  
 Many do not see the Jotunheim as "revolutionary" or "ground-breaking" but even after ignoring all its additional features (phono or dac section, pre amp out etc), this is a balanced in balanced out amp at $400! With a new topology (doesn't say much about how it will sound like but new topologies don't grow on trees)! And apparently play well with both sensitive IEMs and harder to drive headphones (this will need more inputs from Jotunheim owners).
  
 I fully expect the Jotunheim to be my next amp though it won't be so soon as I have some other purchases already planned. I may or may not like it, but I think we should at least appreciate that Schiit has brought down the price bar on another piece of audio gear.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Now we need a comparison of this vs the Fostex HP-A4BL.


----------



## Vigrith

waytoocrazy said:


> Now we need a comparison of this vs the Fostex HP-A4BL.


 
  
 They're two fundamental and completely different products, asides the price point the fact they both have a balanced and SE headphone outs is pretty much the only thing they have in common really. Fostex' website states the A4BL puts out 300mW into 32 ohms, the Jotunheim puts out (conservatively, according to Jude) 5000.


----------



## kel101

surely they will at some point make a multi bit dac module for it


----------



## Allanmarcus

xuan87 said:


> It seems like Schiit can read my mind... Just when I was contemplating pulling a trigger on a used Bifrost MB, Schiit went and announced the Modi MB. I now have a Modi MB on my desk.
> 
> Just last week, I was considering getting another low priced balanced amp to maybe replace what I currently have (it wasn't playing well with all of my headphones and IEMs) but the options are extremely limited. In my very short research, the cheapest balanaced amps I could find are the Aune X7s (about $250) and the Liquid Carbon 1st run ($600 and out of stock, 2nd run at $800). Guys, please correct me if I'm wrong and add if you know of any balanced amp under $500. In any case, both the Aune X7s and Liquid Carbon balanced out but only SE in.
> 
> ...




The LC is also balanced in. That said, I doubt anyone but the absolute most discerning ears could detect a difference between well implemented SE in and balanced in on an amp. I even doubt the most discerning folks can tell the difference.


----------



## ucanuup

i am so hyped


----------



## WayTooCrazy

vigrith said:


> They're two fundamental and completely different products, asides the price point the fact they both have a balanced and SE headphone outs is pretty much the only thing they have in common really. Fostex' website states the A4BL puts out 300mW into 32 ohms, the Jotunheim puts out (conservatively, according to Jude) 5000.




Yes, but for someone who doesn't have really difficult headphones to drive, they would still be a relative comparison there.


----------



## Ancipital

I'm having a hard time seeing how that's enough power for the HE6 (and I need to post something here to get it in my activity list, the subscribe button isn't working 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).


----------



## ToddRaymond

Unless I'm mistaken, it seems that one definite leg up of this device is that the quarter inch single ended out isn't as hampered (lack of summing, whatnot) as it would be on Schiit's other balanced amps.  For me that's a big plus, since I wanna be using both balanced cans, and my IEMs that are factory wired for single ended only.


----------



## VerBla

I feel this might be something good to use with my Chord Mojo for my HE-560's. Feeling it more and more that the Mojo does not have enough power to drive the HE-560's. If only by a small margin. And with the option to put in a phono would be really nice for my vinyl collection.


----------



## Billheiser

disastermouse said:


> The way I'm writing it, the jotnar are a persecuted minority, hunted nearly to extinction by brutal and vicious Aesir - a bit like the Native Americans and the Europeans. Loki is in-between, half jotun and half Aesir, mostly crazy. Odin is a power-mad monster.
> 
> My main character is a mentally ill (borderline) woman who's been 'transformed' into a jotun (along with her two friends) in an attempt to increase their numbers.


 
 That's weird.  I am writing a novel about EXACTLY the same thing.  I'm having a little trouble with the conclusion, though.  Can you send me your last chapter, just for, you know, inspiration?


----------



## 394216

Aw too bad if they cant make a small multibit module. How about a balanced output mimby?

Let`s say 300$ for the balanced mimby and add the amp-only jotunheim and that would still be a good value balanced setup.

I wonder if that can make me sell my idsd and soloist sl combo...

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk


----------



## hekeli

xuan87 said:


> add if you know of any balanced amp under $500


 
  
 Matrix HPA-3B is ok.


----------



## scottcocoabeach

Ordered.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

This is going to cause a Schiit storm of Magni/Modi units going up in the For Sale forum.  Like mine probably.


----------



## pr0ggy

waytoocrazy said:


> This is going to cause a Schiit storm of Magni/Modi units going up in the For Sale forum.  Like mine probably.


 
  
 Most likely...I got lucky, still within the 15-day window for my Magni 2U.  Sent in RMA request last night, haven't received any confirmation or anything yet though...hopefully will get some feedback on Monday.


----------



## BarDash

alex martin said:


> We should be going on sale later this morning.  The production run started last week and we have a good number of units in stock and ready to ship on Monday morning.


 

 Just ordered mine! Fed Ex 2nd day. Do you guys ever plan on making one in black?


----------



## Mediahound

Its on the site now:
  
 http://schiit.com/products/jotunheim?utm_campaign=website&utm_source=sendgrid.com&utm_medium=email


----------



## a44100Hz

This is a great idea. Good work, Schiit.


----------



## lenroot77

Very curious how the power output on this compares to the liquid carbon? SE and balanced both


----------



## Mediahound

lenroot77 said:


> Very curious how the power output on this compares to the liquid carbon? SE and balanced both




The Jotty is way more powerful from a purely power perspective. It can output a max 7.5 watts whereas the Liquid Carbon max is 1.5 watts.


----------



## scottcocoabeach

pr0ggy said:


> Most likely...I got lucky, still within the 15-day window for my Magni 2U.  Sent in RMA request last night, haven't received any confirmation or anything yet though...hopefully will get some feedback on Monday.




Same here - I was wondering about that but they probably manually confirm them before sending the approval.


----------



## Vigrith

bardash said:


> Just ordered mine! Fed Ex 2nd day. Do you guys ever plan on making one in black?


 
  
 Sad as it is, they don't make their products with black chassis other than by "mistake", eg. when their supplier sends them a few black ones rather than silver for whatever reason.
  
 It's a shame, I'm partial to black electronics and am not the biggest fan of silver, though their finish looks very nice admittedly. Perfectly understandable though, would be so much more expensive for them to offer multiple colours.


----------



## akg fanboy

mediahound said:


> The Jotty is way more powerful from a purely power perspective. It can output a max 7.5 watts whereas the Liquid Carbon max is 1.5 watts.




I think that 1.5w spec is for 50ohm? But the schiit amp is still twice as powerful with 3w @50ohm


----------



## MonoOno

What's the reasoning on why the DAC option is not the Multibit? With no chassis I would think it would bring the price close to $100. Just asking as It will suck to buy the the DAC option provided now only to then then have a Multibit option a few months later.


----------



## ThurstonX

monoono said:


> What's the reasoning on why the DAC option is not the Multibit? With no chassis I would think it would bring the price close to $100. Just asking as It will suck to buy the the DAC option provided now only to then then have a Multibit option a few months later.


 
  
 While not straight from the horse's mouth, this post might help: http://www.head-fi.org/t/818323/schiit-jotunheim-review-preview-head-fi-tv/45#post_12817992


----------



## MWSVette

Just Ordered....


----------



## Vigrith

mwsvette said:


> Just Ordered....


 
  
 Pls stop. I need to wait until our European dealer puts up the order form on their website and then gets stock of it, which I'm assuming will be starting Monday onwards. God damnit. T_T


----------



## ThurstonX

mwsvette said:


> Just Ordered....


 
  
 PM me when you decide to sell your tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Looking forward to your impressions, esp. in comparison to the Lyr.


----------



## LoryWiv

Any further information / specs. on the DAC module, Will it suppoert 24 bit / Hi-Res formats? I know Schiit isn't keen on DSD but I have a decent sized collection, interested in knowing if it supports them as well which may clinch the deal for me.


----------



## earnmyturns

Question: the Liquid Carbon splits single-ended analog input for balanced amplification. Does the Jotunheim do that, or is it only SE>SE, balanced>balanced? The specs on the Schiit site are not clear about this.


----------



## rsnblmn

earnmyturns said:


> Question: the Liquid Carbon splits single-ended analog input for balanced amplification. Does the Jotunheim do that, or is it only SE>SE, balanced>balanced? The specs on the Schiit site are not clear about this.


 
  
 Thanks, I was just about to post this same question...Based on this bit from Jason's latest chapter, it *sounds* like I can indeed use the single-ended output from my Bimby to drive the balanced output on the Jotunheim...can someone from Schiit please confirm?
  
 From Jason's chapter:
  

*I could use totally separate gain stages for each phase, as some balanced amps do.* Of course, this would mean that a single-ended input would not produce balanced output. Not ideal.
  
 Since he *didn't* do this, I assume/hope that means SE --> Balanced is an option.


----------



## KoshNaranek

I know that I am probably in the minority, but I would prefer a SPDIF input to the DAC.


----------



## rsnblmn

koshnaranek said:


> I know that I am probably in the minority, but I would prefer a SPDIF input to the DAC.


 
  
 Someone (Alex?) already mentioned that there is just not enough room for multiple DAC inputs.  I suppose maybe it would theoretically be possible for them to do a future card with only SPDIF instead of USB...but obviously the market prefers the ubiquity of USB, so whether there would be enough demand to make it worth it, I can't say.


----------



## morinu

koshnaranek said:


> I know that I am probably in the minority, but I would prefer a SPDIF input to the DAC.


 
 I was thinking the same... so my vote to this too!


----------



## morinu

Do we know if the cards are user replaceable?


----------



## zeissiez

Feature wise, there's nothing game changing. Practically it's just a balanced DAC/AMP combo. The price is game changing for a balanced DAC/AMP. A good USD250 less than Audio-GD NFB-28.


----------



## rsnblmn

zeissiez said:


> Feature wise, there's nothing game changing. Practically it's just a balanced DAC/AMP combo. The price is game changing for a balanced DAC/AMP. A good USD250 less than Audio-GD NFB-28.


 
  
 Agreed. And the smaller desktop footprint is attractive to me as well, along with the price. Mjolnir 2 is pretty large and pretty expensive for a casual office/desk setup, but Jotunheim is very tempting.


----------



## BarDash

vigrith said:


> Sad as it is, they don't make their products with black chassis other than by "mistake", eg. when their supplier sends them a few black ones rather than silver for whatever reason.
> 
> It's a shame, I'm partial to black electronics and am not the biggest fan of silver, though their finish looks very nice admittedly. Perfectly understandable though, would be so much more expensive for them to offer multiple colours.


 

 I agree, I have  Firefies, headphones , stand, monitor etc. That are all black. Oh well, maybe in the future.


----------



## drwlf

vigrith said:


> Pls stop. I need to wait until our European dealer puts up the order form on their website and then gets stock of it, which I'm assuming will be starting Monday onwards. God damnit. T_T


 
  
 European dealer, pls elaborate!


----------



## Vigrith

rsnblmn said:


> Since he *didn't* do this, I assume/hope that means SE --> Balanced is an option.


 
  
 As per Jude's video as well as Jason's posts I'm very certain the amp can run four different ways, BL to BL, SE to SE, BL to SE and SE to BL. I have zero engineering or electrical knowledge though so it'd be nice to be sure, all I'm basing my assumptions on is my reading/listening comprehension. Well, plus the fact that it would make perfect sense for things to work that way rather than restrict the ways the device can be used.
  
  


bardash said:


> I agree, I have  Firefies, headphones , stand, monitor etc. That are all black. Oh well, maybe in the future.


 
  
 I have a black Fireflies too, work of art in and of itself, still looks good even next to Schiit's Mjolnir 2 however so I'm guessing Jotunheim would/will too if that's of any comfort to you haha.
  


drwlf said:


> European dealer, pls elaborate!


 
  
 The people are schiit-europe are friendly and supply their entire lineup with European voltages and plugs - their customer support is good too, they're based off of the Netherlands.

 edit: unless you meant that you want the European to elaborate on Jotunheim's availability, in which case I can't help unfortunately.


----------



## hodgjy

There probably won't be a MB DAC for this because they need to be on all the time. Amps do not.


----------



## drwlf

> The people are schiit-europe are friendly and supply their entire lineup with European voltages and plugs - their customer support is good too, they're based off of the Netherlands.
> 
> edit: unless you meant that you want the European to elaborate on Jotunheim's availability, in which case I can't help unfortunately.


 
  
 Just wondering on the EU availability, where should you purchase. Difference between the UK one vs. the Netherlands one?


----------



## KG Jag

Ordered one with passive phono option.


----------



## Vigrith

drwlf said:


> Just wondering on the EU availability, where should you purchase. Difference between the UK one vs. the Netherlands one?


 
  
 Mark (old Electromod) with Schiit UK is a pleasant guy to deal with too, my first Schiit purchases were made there before the Dutch dealer came into the scene. As of late, the Dutch company (part of Sonority Audio) seems to have larger amounts of stock, I suppose for obvious reasons as they cover a broader customer base especially now with the whole Brexit deal - they also restock and ship things a fair bit quicker from my experience, and most importantly their prices end up favourable for European buyers over the UK store despite the plummet of the Pound Sterling (this is always subject to change of course given its fluctuation as of late, again because of Brexit).


----------



## luisandre

vigrith said:


> Mark (old Electromod) with Schiit UK is a pleasant guy to deal with too, my first Schiit purchases were made there before the Dutch dealer came into the scene. As of late, the Dutch company (part of Sonority Audio) seems to have larger amounts of stock, I suppose for obvious reasons as they cover a broader customer base especially now with the whole Brexit deal - they also restock and ship things a fair bit quicker from my experience, and most importantly their prices end up favourable for European buyers over the UK store despite the plummet of the Pound Sterling (this is always subject to change of course given its fluctuation as of late, again because of Brexit).


 

 I´m from Portugal. From where do you advise me to buy schiit products from?
 Thank you!!


----------



## drwlf

vigrith said:


> Mark (old Electromod) with Schiit UK is a pleasant guy to deal with too, my first Schiit purchases were made there before the Dutch dealer came into the scene. As of late, the Dutch company (part of Sonority Audio) seems to have larger amounts of stock, I suppose for obvious reasons as they cover a broader customer base especially now with the whole Brexit deal - they also restock and ship things a fair bit quicker from my experience, and most importantly their prices end up favourable for European buyers over the UK store despite the plummet of the Pound Sterling (this is always subject to change of course given its fluctuation as of late, again because of Brexit).


 
  
 Thanks for the info, valuable information for all the European customers. Both are recommended by Schiit "USA"?  Almost pulled the trigger earlier on LC, but shipping, VAT and customs fees just made it too steep.


----------



## Vigrith

luisandre said:


> I´m from Portugal. From where do you advise me to buy schiit products from?
> Thank you!!


 
  
 As am I. My latest purchases over the last year have all been made on schiit-europe.com, the Dutch dealer (with whom I'm in no way affiliated by the way of course), they have a lot of stock and if they happen to not the they restock fast too, never had an issue with shipping and the packages tend to take less than a week to arrive after they've sent them over here under normal circumstances. 
  
 Melhores cumprimentos!


----------



## BarDash

I just ordered and this will be my first Schitt  Currently using Fireflies and a Opus 1 and Sony Dap. I currently have Ether C's and HD700 cans.
 Any suggestions on what you guys will be pairing with the Jotunheim? I'm seriously considering getting the Focal Elear when they become available although unfortunately the Utopias are out of my price range... Thanks.


----------



## Vigrith

drwlf said:


> Thanks for the info, valuable information for all the European customers. Both are recommended by Schiit "USA"?  Almost pulled the trigger earlier on LC, but shipping, VAT and customs fees just made it too steep.


 
  
 Happy to help, I've been a fan of Schiit (hurr hurr) for a few years now so I've tried to always keep up with the options they offer for us across the pond here. I'm pretty sure both are official Schiit dealers yea, or at least I know Schiit acknowledges and willingly works with them (just not sure if they describe them as "official dealers" per se) even though there is (as far as I'm aware) no mention of them on Schiit's main website.
  
 I was this close to getting a first run LC but having to deal with customs, both wait time and VAT, is almost always a deal breaker for me unless it's an item I really *need* to have. Would I like to own the LC to get a taste of Cavalli's house sound for less than 2 grand? Of course, but with it nearing 1k € and like 300 or almost 400 of that being shipping/handling fees, VAT and customs related expenses I couldn't possibly justify buying it over Schiit's Mjolnir 2 for example.
  


bardash said:


> Any suggestions on what you guys will be pairing with the Jotunheim? I'm seriously considering getting the Focal Elear when they become available although unfortunately the Utopias are out of my price range... Thanks.


 
  
 I'm going to be using the Elear with it as soon as I get my hands on both - which by the looks of things should be some time toward the latter half of September or even start of October, Focal's still working on the EU release for their new headphone line.


----------



## Allanmarcus

bardash said:


> I just ordered and this will be my first Schitt  Currently using Fireflies and a Opus 1 and Sony Dap. I currently have Ether C's and HD700 cans.
> Any suggestions on what you guys will be pairing with the Jotunheim? I'm seriously considering getting the Focal Elear when they become available although unfortunately the Utopias are out of my price range... Thanks.




What's wrong with what you have?


As for a Multibit module, I dont think there is enough space for one.


----------



## luisandre

vigrith said:


> As am I. My latest purchases over the last year have all been made on schiit-europe.com, the Dutch dealer (with whom I'm in no way affiliated by the way of course), they have a lot of stock and if they happen to not the they restock fast too, never had an issue with shipping and the packages tend to take less than a week to arrive after they've sent them over here under normal circumstances.
> 
> Melhores cumprimentos!


 

 Obrigado!


----------



## grrorr76

Question
*I have a Mjolnir 2 could I plug it in and use the dac of the Jotunheim with the  Mjolnir 2 keeping it all balanced?*


----------



## mithrandir38

OK. So the Jotunheim is a cool product, but is this the aforementioned "Manhattan project "? If so, I'm a little confused since that was supposed to be an entirely new or different category of product. Just wondering. Congrats Jason and Mike on a cool looking product.


----------



## BarDash

allanmarcus said:


> What's wrong with what you have?
> 
> 
> As for a Multibit module, I dont think there is enough space for one.


 

 Nothing wrong with what I have at all, although the HD700s I mainly use with a balanced cable with my Opus 1. I'll probably use the Jotunheim  in the bedroom and am always curious to hear new phones.


----------



## rsnblmn

grrorr76 said:


> Question
> *I have a Mjolnir 2 could I plug it in and use the dac of the Jotunheim with the  Mjolnir 2 keeping it all balanced?*


 
  
 Yes, there should be no reason you can't do that.  The Jotun has balanced preamp outputs.


----------



## grrorr76

awesome thanks for


rsnblmn said:


> Yes, there should be no reason you can't do that.  The Jotun has balanced preamp outputs.


 

 awesome thats great news, decisions decisions.......


----------



## Fidelity King

Not sure if this is the correct thread where you post impressions for the schiit Jothunheim amp/dac but here I go.
Let's start off with what this is. It is an amp, dac, and a pre amp. Not only that but you'll be able to heavily customized this amp/dac to however you want it to. Really nice as this allows you to buy an amp now and then upgrade it later on without having to buy a new amp. Similar to tube rolling but at a much more versatile level of customization. Now you don't have to go out an spend another $2k if you want to upgrade your amp/dac to the next level, a really nice feature.
Now with the design... It's looks like pretty much every other Schiit product you've seen. That's not to say it looks bad at all. No this means you continue to have to all metal construction that looks very simply an elegant. It looks more like something you would use to listen to music with and doesn't end up looking like a science experiment. On the front there's a large volume nob that very easily lets you turn the volume up or down. Other than that there's also a gain switch for high and low impedance cans. There's also a switch that lets you choose which source you want to use. And that's pretty much it for the front, nothing that'll make the amp look sloppy. On the back there's a usb connection, in and out rca connectors, and some xlr connectors I believe?
Finally onto the sound.
I've listened to many schiit amps and dacs and this one definitely stands out. With almost every other schiit product I've heard all I hear is the music and not the amp or the dac. To my ears this amp/dac clearly has some extra character, one that may or may not end up having a positive impression on you. On tracks with lower quantities of bass, say classical or jazz, the music sounds clean and open. Even with closed headphones like the mr speakers ether c, you feel like your listening to full sized speakers rather than closed headphones. Sure the ether c already sound open for a closed headphone. But this amp adds to it. It's strange, but the best way I can put it is that it sounds like a analogue recording without warmth. So you get a sound that doesn't sound compressed and feels more natural. You don't get the usual "forced" sound with this amp. Again this is very pleasant with genres like classical, jazz, and folk. 
Moving down to the bass we get something different. With songs that feature primarily mid-bass you get a very strong/quick punch. Even on thicker sounding headphones like the lcd 3, the music overall sound quicker and a tad brighter, not on a negative way however. At last we get to the sub bass and this is where things get interesting. On a song like Lose yourself to dance, you can always here the rumble of the sub bass and it fills and song and adds life to it. When it comes to songs that don't feature continuous bass, there seems to be a lack of rumble each time the bass hits. Its as if someone jumps in the pool at a fast speed yet doesn't make a big splash, if that makes any sense. For the most part you'll get a sound that cleans up your headphones and makes them sound less muddy, you to lose the ability to have deep sub bass rumble with genres like rap or electronic that drop the bass hard. That's just me however, and of course the headphones you use play a large part on the sound. I was however able to listen to the amp/ dac on my headphones and kept hearing the same occurrence.


----------



## pr0ggy

fidelity king said:


> Not sure if this is the correct thread where you post impressions for the schiit Jothunheim amp/dac but here I go.
> Let's start off with what this is. It is an amp, dac, and a pre amp. Not only that but you'll be able to heavily customized this amp/dac to however you want it to. Really nice as this allows you to buy an amp now and then upgrade it later on without having to buy a new amp. Similar to tube rolling but at a much more versatile level of customization. Now you don't have to go out an spend another $2k if you want to upgrade your amp/dac to the next level, a really nice feature.
> Now with the design... It's looks like pretty much every other Schiit product you've seen. That's not to say it looks bad at all. No this means you continue to have to all metal construction that looks very simply an elegant. It looks more like something you would use to listen to music with and doesn't end up looking like a science experiment. On the front there's a large volume nob that very easily lets you turn the volume up or down. Other than that there's also a gain switch for high and low impedance cans. There's also a switch that lets you choose which source you want to use. And that's pretty much it for the front, nothing that'll make the amp look sloppy. On the back there's a usb connection, in and out rca connectors, and some xlr connectors I believe?
> Finally onto the sound.
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for taking the time to type up some impressions...very interesting, anxious to hear for myself!


----------



## Odin412

fidelity king said:


> Not sure if this is the correct thread where you post impressions for the schiit Jothunheim amp/dac but here I go.


 
  
 I posted my initial impressions in the Schiit show thread, but here they are:
  
  A great show! As you would expect there were a number of Jotunheims available (if fact, I didn't see any other Schiit products at the show), including two with phonostages hooked up to turntables! There were a number of headphones available - I listened to the Audeze LCD-XC, HD800, HD800S, Ether Flow, Ether C (don't know if this was the Flow version), ZMF Omni, Focal Elear and Utopia.
  
 I admire the bravery of the Schiit folks - the Jotunheim is in a way part Bifrost (DAC), Asgard (single-ended amp) and Mjolnir (balanced amp). It's a bit smaller than the Bifrost-sized units and doesn't run nearly as hot as the Asgard 2. The new case design looks very nice and has the same solid build quality as the other Schiit products.
  
 So how did it sound? To my ears it sounded very good and it really let the character of the various headphones come across. Isn't that what a good amp should do? While listening to the Utopia I started getting annoyed that there were someone behind me using a hammer for some kind of building maintenance, until I realized that the sound was coming from the track that I was playing. Well done!
  
 And for those of you who visited the Schiit room at THE Show: The puppy has grown a lot and is very cute and friendly!
  
 Again, thanks to everyone for a great show! We are really living in a golden age for headphone listening and SoCal seems to be ground zero for a lot of exciting products.


----------



## tkddans

mithrandir38 said:


> OK. So the Jotunheim is a cool product, but is this the aforementioned "Manhattan project "? If so, I'm a little confused since that was supposed to be an entirely new or different category of product. Just wondering. Congrats Jason and Mike on a cool looking product.


 

 Without any knowledge of this product coming out, I saw the announcement today and was actually impressed, not disappointed. At $249, the Asgard 2 is the most expensive solid state amp among the other solid state amps that are cheaper than the Jotunheim - so I would compare it to Jot's $399 amp-only option and $499 amp/DAC option. *Asgard 2 is $150 to $250 cheaper. However, for that extra $150 you have several benefits*:
  
 1) *Balanced output*. To me, this is the most obvious and important feature for this price range (under $500) for either an amp or amp/DAC combo from anything else in the market, let alone among just Schiit gear. I've been in the market for an amp with a balanced output. Idk if anyone is like me here, but I only have an O2 amp, which has a 1/4" output but no balanced output (XLR). My HD 800 S came with a balanced cable (XLR) though, so I've been in the market for something to accommodate these lovely headphones. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 The list should stop there for telling you why I was impressed off the bat, but I dug into the product specs page and added these on that seem important:
  
 2) *Tons more power*. Examples for 300 ohms headphones... 
_    • Jotenheimer's _max power for 300 ohms output is:
       - 900 mW balanced
       - 350 mW single-ended (the 1/4" jack)
    • _Asgard 2's_ max power for 300 ohms output is:
       - 380 mW single-ended (the 1/4" jack)
  
 3) *Lower distortion*. Lower THD and IMD
  
 4) *Quieter when volume is raised? *I think I read that somewhere. Same goes for when the gain switch on each device is flipped on.
  
 Thus, my thoughts so far are: *The Jotenheim (amp-only) improves sound and provides a balanced output in a price range I have not seen on any other solid state amp in the market. The amp/DAC combo version of Jot only improves the value of the purchase by providing an effective DAC within the same chassis at a very reasonable or even more than reasonable $100 more. Add onto the above points with nice aesthetic choices such as a volume knob that also serves as the power switch (when you turn up the volume from zero) and you have a product that is a king of value.*


----------



## Arthrumus

mithrandir38 said:


> OK. So the Jotunheim is a cool product, but is this the aforementioned "Manhattan project "? If so, I'm a little confused since that was supposed to be an entirely new or different category of product. Just wondering. Congrats Jason and Mike on a cool looking product.


 
 I seriously doubt it. Jason has consistently referred to the "Manhattan Project" as Mike's thing whereas the Jotunheim seems to be almost exclusively Jason's design.


----------



## enlight10ment

Not going to replace the gumby+mj2 at home, but I can see something more compact like this doing well on my desk at work, where a grace m9xx sits now.  Separate dac amps are a little imposing to have on the workplace desks.


----------



## orphean

Lack of Multibit kills it as a DAC for me but the phono module really has piqued my interest. I like the idea of having a combined phono preamp/amp to reduce desktop clutter (rather than getting a Mani) and having yet another Silver Schiit box on my desk!


----------



## Destroysall

odin412 said:


> There were a number of headphones available - I listened to the Audeze LCD-XC, HD800, HD800S, Ether Flow, Ether C (don't know if this was the Flow version), ZMF Omni, Focal Elear and Utopia.


 
 Out of these headphones, which one did you feel paired best with the Jotunheim?


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

Great Video Jude. As an HE6 owner and being raised by a Stereophile, what does the Jotunheim offer for powering the HE6 vs Speaker Amps that i own. I own a Bryston 2BLP, Pioneer SA7700, various SMSL amps and receivers


----------



## Angular Mo

Not sure if this makes sense for me as AMP only, as i dont care about vinyl and already own a Bimby.

The Valhallas and Lyrs are still my preference as a Vali 1 upgrade.


----------



## Odin412

destroysall said:


> Out of these headphones, which one did you feel paired best with the Jotunheim?


 

 ​Wow - that's like choosing between different kinds of chocolate (or cognac, whiskey, sports cars, Swiss watches, supermodels, etc.). They're all good but different. Also, some headphones had a balanced cable and some were single-ended, but I can't remember which headphones had which. So here's my quick take on the various headphones with the Jotunheim:

Audeze LCD-XC: I own and enjoy this headphone. It's heavy but looks soo good. The one at the show had vegan pads. It sounded good - to me it has a very intimate and engaging sound.
HD800 and HD800S: I listened to the HD800 hooked up to a vinyl rig. I know many of you guys adore the HD800, but I find the treble peak physically painful so I didn't listen long. The HD800S sounded very nice and had a really wide and open soundstage - probably the best soundstage of all headphones that I heard today.
Ether Flow: The midrange on the Flow version is just so lifelike and natural-sounding to me. I also listened to these hooked up to a vinyl rig. Man, what a great-sounding headphone!
Ether C: This was probably the most neutral and balanced of all the headphones that I listened too. It may sound a bit 'flat' when you first put it on, but after some listening time I really enjoy the uncolored and smooth sound.
ZMF Omni: Man, this is a musical-sounding headphone. I own the cherry version and it's just so enjoyable! Absolutely no listening fatigue whatsoever.
Focal Elear: I had some time to listen to this today and the more I listened the more I enjoyed it. It's smooth, dynamic, involving and non-fatiguing. It's also really well made with aluminum frame and Alcantara pads.
Focal Utopia: This headphone sounds spectacular! Really dynamic and lively without being bright and over-detailed. A clear contender for 'best headphone' right now. Sexy-looking too with lots of carbon fiber and nice leather.
  
 The winner? Hard to choose, but the Elear looks mighty tempting (considering price and performance) right now. Yes, I know that this is a non-answer, but it's the best I can do.


----------



## mithrandir38

tkddans said:


> Without any knowledge of this product coming out, I saw the announcement today and was actually impressed, not disappointed. At $249, the Asgard 2 is the most expensive solid state amp among the other solid state amps that are cheaper than the Jotunheim - so I would compare it to Jot's $399 amp-only option and $499 amp/DAC option. *Asgard 2 is $150 to $250 cheaper. However, for that extra $150 you have several benefits*:
> 
> 1) *Balanced output*. To me, this is the most obvious and important feature for this price range (under $500) for either an amp or amp/DAC combo from anything else in the market, let alone among just Schiit gear. I've been in the market for an amp with a balanced output. Idk if anyone is like me here, but I only have an O2 amp, which has a 1/4" output but no balanced output (XLR). My HD 800 S came with a balanced cable (XLR) though, so I've been in the market for something to accommodate these lovely headphones.
> 
> ...


 I get all that, with the specs and what not. I'm just wondering if that was the "Manhattan project ". As it's been said, an entirely different unprecedented type of product . I'm not disappointed, I may get one for myself to complement my Kenzie amplifier. I would just like to know if it is a different product or not.


----------



## Defiant00

mithrandir38 said:


> I get all that, with the specs and what not. I'm just wondering if that was the "Manhattan project ". As it's been said, an entirely different unprecedented type of product . I'm not disappointed, I may get one for myself to complement my Kenzie amplifier. I would just like to know if it is a different product or not.


 
  
 From everything they've said, no, this is not Manhattan.


----------



## chowmein83

rsnblmn said:


> Thanks, I was just about to post this same question...Based on this bit from Jason's latest chapter, it *sounds* like I can indeed use the single-ended output from my Bimby to drive the balanced output on the Jotunheim...can someone from Schiit please confirm?
> 
> From Jason's chapter:
> 
> ...


 
  


earnmyturns said:


> Question: the Liquid Carbon splits single-ended analog input for balanced amplification. Does the Jotunheim do that, or is it only SE>SE, balanced>balanced? The specs on the Schiit site are not clear about this.


 
  
 I'm not part of Schiit, but today when I was at the Schiit Show I did see people hooking up their own sources through the RCA input and listening to the balanced out of the Jotunheim. So I think you can do SE-in and balanced-out.


----------



## Redcarmoose

I was soo surprised to hear the Jotunheim Mark 2 is going to sport an FM tuner!


----------



## rsnblmn

chowmein83 said:


> I'm not part of Schiit, but today when I was at the Schiit Show I did see people hooking up their own sources through the RCA input and listening to the balanced out of the Jotunheim. So I think you can do SE-in and balanced-out.


 
  
 Thanks. You are correct - I emailed Schiit support a while ago and they confirmed it as well.


----------



## Allanmarcus

fidelity king said:


> Not sure if this is the correct thread where you post impressions for the schiit Jothunheim amp/dac but here I go.
> Let's start off with what this is. It is an amp, dac, and a pre amp. Not only that but you'll be able to heavily customized this amp/dac to however you want it to. Really nice as this allows you to buy an amp now and then upgrade it later on without having to buy a new amp. Similar to tube rolling but at a much more versatile level of customization. Now you don't have to go out an spend another $2k if you want to upgrade your amp/dac to the next level, a really nice feature.
> Now with the design... It's looks like pretty much every other Schiit product you've seen. That's not to say it looks bad at all. No this means you continue to have to all metal construction that looks very simply an elegant. It looks more like something you would use to listen to music with and doesn't end up looking like a science experiment. On the front there's a large volume nob that very easily lets you turn the volume up or down. Other than that there's also a gain switch for high and low impedance cans. There's also a switch that lets you choose which source you want to use. And that's pretty much it for the front, nothing that'll make the amp look sloppy. On the back there's a usb connection, in and out rca connectors, and some xlr connectors I believe?
> Finally onto the sound.
> ...




In what way can you update the amp section? Sure, one can add a nice low/mid fi DAC or entry level phono pre, but beyond that, how does even come close to competing with a $2000 amp, like say the rag?


----------



## hekeli

zeissiez said:


> Feature wise, there's nothing game changing. Practically it's just a balanced DAC/AMP combo. The price is game changing for a balanced DAC/AMP. A good USD250 less than Audio-GD NFB-28.


 
  
 Yeah price is pretty much the only new stuff, but it seems many people downplay/forget the _preamp_ feature. I imagine there are many people at home and studios with decend dac and speakers itching to get this in between. Show me another xlr in, xlr out active preamp under $400 (even without balanced headamp as a bonus)? There's some crap like SPL Volume 2 and that's about it. If I wouldn't have my NFB-1AMP already (which is pretty stellar for $520 I have to say), pretty sure I would consider the smaller footprint Jotty hard.


----------



## Allanmarcus

So, can anyone answer any questions about the preamp? Fixed or variable? Do headphone being plugged in affect the preouts? There was some speculation earlier from mediahound, but nothing definitive. Nothing in the manual either.


----------



## hylas512

I am interested in the phonographic preamp performance. The Mani was quite nice for it's price, so count me curious.


----------



## HK_sends

Do you think I should need to use a Wyrd between a laptop music USB source and the Jotunheim?
 Or does the USB card have its own board noise isolator circuitry?
 Cheers and Thanks!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 -HK sends


----------



## chowmein83

Hey all, I was at the Schiit Show today and got some good listening time in to the Jotunheim. Like for a good hour or two in relatively quiet conditions in the dedicated listening rooms.
  
 I unfortunately did not bring my own source. I would've brought something along if I had known before they specifically encouraged people to plug in their own sources, but oh well. So I'm not really qualified to make a judgment on the DAC.
  
 However, I will make some comments on what I think about the amp at this point in time. Specifically, I'm going to be doing some comparisons to the Cavalli Liquid Carbon ($800 in the 2nd run) which I do own and have experienced with a variety of headphones and DACs. This I'm more comfortable with talking about since I think I have a handle on the character of the LC, even though I've never heard the Carbon amp with the DAC specifically in the Jotunheim.
  
 The five different headphones that I spent time with listening to the Jotunheim were: Fostex TH-X00, Hifiman HE-560, ZMF Omni, Sennheiser HD800, and the Mr. Speakers Ether Flow. So a variety of both dynamic and planar magnetic headphones.
  
 First off, anyone who's not a fan of the sound signature of Schiit's other amps is still not going to like this one. That being said however, while still being on the bright side I felt the Jotunheim was slightly less bright than the other Schiit amps I've heard. But this could just be my tastes changing over time since I've last heard the other amps. And while bright, I never really felt the Jotunheim sounded harsh.
  
 As for the bass, it was quite punchy and never got out of control. However, while the bass quality was good I feel that the Liquid Carbon has the slightly better bass - it has a bit more, but it's never out of control and more importantly, it seems a bit more textured and detailed than what I heard on the Jotunheim. Still, I don't think many are going to be dissatisfied with the Jotunheim's bass.
  
 As for the mids, well the LC has more lush mids but the Jotunheim's is just as detailed with a brighter tilt. I think it's going to come down to preferences as to which one is better.
  
 Soundstage was definitely a highlight of the Jotunheim. Very wide (though not the widest I've heard from the very best amps) and pretty deep. When you combine this with the excellent imaging capabilities (both left-to-right and depth-wise) you have a very 3D soundstage that is the hallmark of a well-done balanced amp. Heck, even the SE out did a very good job in giving a 3D soundstage. I actually don't think it really loses out here to the LC much, if at all.
  
 Comparing the Jotunheim and the LC overall, I'd say that the LC still has the edge but that is more due to being slightly more detailed and how it presents this detail with smoother notes. Plus it has a warmer tonality that I think sounds more natural, but I've tried to not let this influence my judgment here.
  
 As for pairings with different headphones, I don't think any of the headphones I've mentioned sounded bad with the Jotunheim at all. In fact, the Jotunheim paired well with all of them. The Jotunheim never sounded like it was lacking power for any of those headphones. And though the Jotunheim is on the bright side, it still allowed the characters of each headphone to come through clearly.
  
 The Fostex TH-X00 was very enjoyable on the Jotunheim. Very detailed, with nice seperation and soundstage, and allowing that bass to really come through cleanly and with great punch. The HE-560 sounded very clean and fast without getting harsh. Same for the HD800 surprisingly - the Jotunheim gave the HD800 the chance to show off its massive soundstage and accurate imaging without making it sound particularly harsh. The ZMF Omni's rather large soundstage and slightly warm character came through while still being decently detailed. And the Ether Flow sounds very good with the Jotunheim - punchy bass, a very 3D soundstage, and the Flow never sounded confused even during the most complicated passages due to the Jotunheim really allowing the headphone to demonstrate its speed and seperation. 
  
 Another thing I wanted to note is this thing runs cool. I'd say it gets only moderately warm, and is much cooler than the rest of Schiit's amps.
  
 Overall, I think this is a win for Schiit, especially at the price. I mean seriously, where are you going to get a very good sounding balanced amp for only $400? Or where are you going to get a decent-sounding balanced DAC/amp combo for only $500? The value proposition here is just strong.


----------



## CCXR594

Well, this looks like my next step up. I've been looking around the market for a balanced amp/dac or seperates that are reasonably priced and so far, the HA-1 looked like the only option. Guess im going to trade in my entry level Schiit for some mid grade Schiit.


----------



## 3ggerhappy

Just ordered few minutes ago with the balanced dac module, hope it will ship soonso excited. Cant wait to try this with my 800S


----------



## Rossliew

Ordered me a unit with the passive phono stage...cant wait!


----------



## oldschool

lorywiv said:


> Any further information / specs. on the DAC module, Will it suppoert 24 bit / Hi-Res formats? I know Schiit isn't keen on DSD but I have a decent sized collection, interested in knowing if it supports them as well which may clinch the deal for me.


 
  
 I also would like to know that.
  
 Btw I think Head-Fi needs a separate forum for Amp+DAC devices.


----------



## CCXR594

oldschool said:


> I also would like to know that.
> 
> Btw I think Head-Fi needs a separate forum for Amp+DAC devices.


 

Here is a link to the manufacturer of the AK4490 chip being used.
  
 tl:dr 
*[Features]*

  
 1.    256x Over Sampling Stereo D/A Converter
 2.    32-bit 8x Digital Filter
 3.    Sampling Rate: 30kHz~768kHz
 4.    Low Distortion Full Differential Output
 5.    SCF
 6.    De-emphasis Filter
 7.    Soft Mute
 8.    DSD Input (2.8MHz, 5.6MHz, 11.2MHz)
 9.    External Digital Filter Mode
 10.  THD+N: -112dB
 11.  DR, S/N: 120dB
 12.  Power Supply: Analog: 4.75~5.25V, Digital: 2.7~3.6V

  
 Copied and pasted directly from their site. It remains to be seen if Schiit will take advantage of all the features.


----------



## orphean

Not holding my breath for the Schiit implementation of those DSD inputs


----------



## Currawong

oldschool said:


> lorywiv said:
> 
> 
> > Any further information / specs. on the DAC module, Will it suppoert 24 bit / Hi-Res formats? I know Schiit isn't keen on DSD but I have a decent sized collection, interested in knowing if it supports them as well which may clinch the deal for me.
> ...


 
  
 I think it would become unnecessarily confusing. If a device is primarily a headphone amp, which the Jotunheim is, then it goes in the amp section. If it is primarily a DAC, then it goes in Dedicated Source Components.


----------



## ewemon

The only problem with the Dutch site is that they do not offer shipping to the UK as they have a B stock Bifrost that I wanted to buy but couldn't because they wouldn't send it to me.


----------



## the Ortherion

Super excited for this one. Maybe this is gonna be my upgrade to the Modi+Vali stack. I just hope it doesn't sound like a Magni, I tried one once and hated it. To me it was to bright. Waiting for sound impressions on this Jotunhmeim and hopefully someone who can compare this with the Vali v1.


----------



## Vigrith

chowmein83 said:


> Overall, I think this is a win for Schiit, especially at the price. I mean seriously, where are you going to get a very good sounding balanced amp for only $400? Or where are you going to get a decent-sounding balanced DAC/amp combo for only $500? The value proposition here is just strong.


 
  
 I really appreciate you taking the time to share such in-depth impressions!
  
 I'm slightly wary of the Jotunheim's bright signature however, both Schiit amps I currently own are tube based and whilst I don't find them to be particularly warm (as clearly stated on their website's FAQ, they aren't meant to be tubey sounding) I don't think they sound fatiguing at all and enjoy them very much (even with stock tubes).
  
 Would you say the Jotunheim may feel fatiguing with headphones like the standard HD800 or the Beyer T1/T90?


----------



## Rossliew

vigrith said:


> I really appreciate you taking the time to share such in-depth impressions!
> 
> I'm slightly wary of the Jotunheim's bright signature however, both Schiit amps I currently own are tube based and whilst I don't find them to be particularly warm (as clearly stated on their website's FAQ, they aren't meant to be tubey sounding) I don't think they sound fatiguing at all and enjoy them very much (even with stock tubes).
> 
> Would you say the Jotunheim may feel fatiguing with headphones like the standard HD800 or the Beyer T1/T90?


 

 I've used the Magni 2 Uber and Vali 2 with my T1 2nd gen and they aren't bright..detailed but not harsh unless the recording is poorly recorded. That being said, i listen to mostly Spotify premium so i'm hardly listening to audiophile material and they do sound nice through the Schiit amps.


----------



## LajostheHun

mediahound said:


> The Jotty is way more powerful from a purely power perspective. It can output a max 7.5 watts whereas the Liquid Carbon max is 1.5 watts.



 I wish Jude or someone on this board would do power measurements of amps, based on my own time with the LC I doubt it meets it's posted specs regarding power. Independent measurements would keep these MFR's "honest". I'm surprised that Tyll at IF doesn't do this either.
All that aside it's obvious to me that Schiit is going after the LC here, good for them.


----------



## LajostheHun

chowmein83 said:


> Hey all, I was at the Schiit Show today and got some good listening time in to the Jotunheim. Like for a good hour or two in relatively quiet conditions in the dedicated listening rooms.
> 
> I unfortunately did not bring my own source. I would've brought something along if I had known before they specifically encouraged people to plug in their own sources, but oh well. So I'm not really qualified to make a judgment on the DAC.
> 
> ...




In case I missed it, did you have the the two amps side by side to make this "comparison" ?


----------



## erik701

I would be curious how will end comparison of OPPO HA-1 vs Schiit Jotunheim in terms of sound quality.


----------



## cmabooty

hekeli said:


> Yeah price is pretty much the only new stuff, but it seems many people downplay/forget the _preamp_ feature. I imagine there are many people at home and studios with decend dac and speakers itching to get this in between. Show me another xlr in, xlr out active preamp under $400 (even without balanced headamp as a bonus)? There's some crap like SPL Volume 2 and that's about it. If I wouldn't have my NFB-1AMP already (which is pretty stellar for $520 I have to say), pretty sure I would consider the smaller footprint Jotty hard.




Emotiva's XDA-2 did all of this, along with multiple inputs (coax, 2 toslink, AES and USB) for less than $300 (I got mine for $200 as they lowered the price near the end)

Granted it was bigger and not upgrade able, but the volume control between the preamp and headphone also had a memory function.

It had balanced in and out, but NOT a headphone balanced out.


----------



## hekeli

cmabooty said:


> Emotiva's XDA-2 did all of this


 
  
 No, it was not an analog preamp, it's a DAC. There's no analog inputs. It's stupidly dubbed "digital preamp".


----------



## Vigrith

rossliew said:


> I've used the Magni 2 Uber and Vali 2 with my T1 2nd gen and they aren't bright..detailed but not harsh unless the recording is poorly recorded. That being said, i listen to mostly Spotify premium so i'm hardly listening to audiophile material and they do sound nice through the Schiit amps.


 
  
 Thank you for that, I really only stream Tidal hifi so that information's still relevant to me. Glad to hear the T1 don't sound bright/harsh through the magni!


----------



## Rossliew

vigrith said:


> Thank you for that, I really only stream Tidal hifi so that information's still relevant to me. Glad to hear the T1 don't sound bright/harsh through the magni!


 

 You're welcome! With the Vali you can roll tubes to tune the sound a bit. The Jotunheim i hope to have similar sounding signatures but then i have a NOS tubed DAC which can help make the sound more organic and natural. Conclusion : Your upstream source is going to play a big role as well. Good luck in your head-fi journey!


----------



## Allanmarcus

oldschool said:


> lorywiv said:
> 
> 
> > Any further information / specs. on the DAC module, Will it suppoert 24 bit / Hi-Res formats? I know Schiit isn't keen on DSD but I have a decent sized collection, interested in knowing if it supports them as well which may clinch the deal for me.
> ...




Hell, HF needs a forum for DACs! There are forums for headphone, IEMs, amps, and dedicated source (to me those are DAPs), but no thread for DACs. It's baffling. 

They need a thread for amps, one for combo gear, and one for DACs. It ain't rocket science. 

The jot would appear in two of those, depending on usage. If I get one, I will use it as a dedicated amp, so that's where I would discuss it.


----------



## chowmein83

vigrith said:


> I really appreciate you taking the time to share such in-depth impressions!
> 
> I'm slightly wary of the Jotunheim's bright signature however, both Schiit amps I currently own are tube based and whilst I don't find them to be particularly warm (as clearly stated on their website's FAQ, they aren't meant to be tubey sounding) I don't think they sound fatiguing at all and enjoy them very much (even with stock tubes).
> 
> Would you say the Jotunheim may feel fatiguing with headphones like the standard HD800 or the Beyer T1/T90?


 
  
 If you don't find Schiit's other tube amps to sound fatiguing with the HD800, I don't think you're going to find the Jotunheim to sound fatiguing with that headphone. I didn't think the Jotunheim sounded any brighter than the Vallhalla 2, Lyr 2, or Mjolnir 2 all on stock tubes.
  


lajosthehun said:


> In case I missed it, did you have the the two maps side by side to make this "comparison" ?


 
  
 I did not (would have been kind of weird to lug my own amp to the event). However, I did make the disclaimer that this "comparison" was purely based on my experiences with the LC with a variety of gear, so yeah you should take it with a grain of salt. But I don't think I'm totally inaccurate about it (for example, I think it's quite obvious that the Jotunheim is brighter than the LC).


----------



## Angular Mo

Reconsidering the Jotunheim, though I don't care about vinyl it seems to me that;

1. Single-end in and balanced out feature is an entry-level price-point to the balanced world.... Then I would need to spend on balanced requiring and a worthy headphone.

2. The extreme power capability wil make it worthwhile for me to begin to explore high-impedance headphones.

3. My powered speakers I typically use via Bluetooth, but the preamp would be useful as a knob controlled volume which I prefer over the iPhone app-controlled volume control... though I hate losing my iPhone's left-right balance control.

Best of all, I can still feed it my Bimby's output.


----------



## Allanmarcus

I think this is another competitor in this price point

http://matrix-digi-usa.com/m-stage-series/m-stage-hpa-3b

The HPA-3b seems very competitive with the the Jot. 

Let's face it, the board mounted DAC or phono pre amp are gimmicks, and Jason would have said the same thing a month ago (in fact, he has said many non-positive things about integrated equipment). The jot will likely be a big seller for Schiit. Might even get them into Best Buy it might make a good second rig for the bedroom or office for the more serious audiophile crowd. It's a great entry level for summit fi headphone buyers, or a good step up from basic entry level. 

It will be interesting once reviewed and compared to the matrix, LC, and NFB1 (and others)


----------



## xuan87

allanmarcus said:


> I think this is another competitor in this price point
> 
> http://matrix-digi-usa.com/m-stage-series/m-stage-hpa-3b
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think calling them gimmicks are going abit too far. After all, the $99 board mounted DAC is a balanced AKM 4490 (to me, it's the best sounding DS DAC), and like Jason said, the phono add-in will be good for those considering a turntable in the future (I will like to get one after I have my own place like 3-4 years go the road) and vinyl is getting popular again.
  
 Also, the DAC and phono add-in might not be the only inserts and Jason hinted as much in his blog (a wifi card in the latest post, and an interest in streaming in earlier post). I might be eyeing the Jotunheim right now solely as a well-priced balanced amp, but I'll be extremely interested in Schiit's future inserts.


----------



## xuan87

I can't remember if I read about it anywhere, but was it mentioned if the user can swap the modules themselves? Or can it be done only back at Schiit?


----------



## Vigrith

chowmein83 said:


> If you don't find Schiit's other tube amps to sound fatiguing with the HD800, I don't think you're going to find the Jotunheim to sound fatiguing with that headphone. I didn't think the Jotunheim sounded any brighter than the Vallhalla 2, Lyr 2, or Mjolnir 2 all on stock tubes.


 
  
 That's great, I'm not even particularly worried about pairing the Jotunheim with brighter headphones because I barely use my HD800 and Beyers nowadays ever (not particularly fond of that sound signature any more, I prefer musicality) but if I'm buying something I like to consider all options so I appreciate your input. That's very telling to me because I use the MJ2 as my main amplifier ever since I purchased it and I really like it, even with stock tubes though I don't use those any more (using the iFi NOS).
  
 Good to know that even though it's a solid state device it's still not brighter or harsher/analytical sounding than their hybrid/OTL offerings.


----------



## ThurstonX

xuan87 said:


> I can't remember if I read about it anywhere, but was it mentioned if the user can swap the modules themselves? Or can it be done only back at Schiit?


 
  
 I'd guess that it's something you have to order initially, or send the amp back to have added.  My guess is based on the fact that the add-on boards have to be attached to the main board by a screw (see product photo @ schiit.com), and that they are not currently available for separate purchase on Schiit's site.  OTOH, they are not listed as upgrades yet, so WTH do I know.


----------



## rsnblmn

angular mo said:


> Reconsidering the Jotunheim, though I don't care about vinyl it seems to me that;
> 
> 1. Single-end in and balanced out feature is an entry-level price-point to the balanced world.... Then I would need to spend on balanced requiring and a worthy headphone.
> 
> Best of all, I can still feed it my Bimby's output.


 
  
 Yup, this is exactly why I just broke down and ordered one....I plan to feed it from my Bimby as I can't afford a Gumby / MJ2 setup and don't really have the space on my desk, anyhow.
  
 Plus, I like having the option to go balanced to get the extra power for headphones that can benefit, but still keep the single-ended option for my existing headphones that don't really need it, such as my TH-X00. Spec-wise, the single-ended performance looks very similar to my Asgard 2, so if the Jotunheim is at least equal on that front, I will be very happy.


----------



## Allanmarcus

xuan87 said:


> allanmarcus said:
> 
> 
> > I think this is another competitor in this price point
> ...




Gimmick comes across strong, probably too strong. I didn't mean it negatively. I meant the slot doesn't add value to the serious audiophile and is more of a marketing/packaging vehicle. To those that want just one device on the desk and don't want to worry about extra cables, this is a good amp. To those that like to swap components, mix and match and try new things, this is an amp. 

For those that want one device and have a computer and a turntable, the Jot misses the mark unfortunately. 

That all said, the jot is primarily a headphone amp. It will be great when the reviews, measurements, and comparisons start rolling in.


----------



## rsnblmn

allanmarcus said:


> Gimmick comes across strong, probably too strong. I didn't mean it negatively. I meant the slot doesn't add value to the serious audiophile and is more of a marketing/packing vehicle. To those that want just one device on the desk and don't want to worry about extra cables, this is a good amp. To those that like to swap components, mix and match and try new things, this is an amp.


 
  
 I don't think there's any way for the word "gimmick" to be perceived other than negatively...I think "disruptive" is more appropriate.
  
 Jotunheim is also a great solution for those who can't or don't want to spend multiple thousands on gear, but want to try out some high-end features to see what the fuss is all about.
  
 I really admire how hard Schiit is trying to poke a hole in the ridiculous audiophile pricing bubble, and I actually wish there was someone doing the same thing to the same caliber on the transducer side of things.


----------



## AviP

angular mo said:


> Reconsidering the Jotunheim, though I don't care about vinyl it seems to me that;
> 
> 2. The extreme power capability wil make it worthwhile for me to begin to explore high-impedance headphones.
> 
> Best of all, I can still feed it my Bimby's output.



Personally, I don't find the power that compelling at all. In SE mode it's barely more power than a Magni 2 Uber. For balanced it's more impressive, but I don't see myself recabling my headphones.


----------



## XERO1

You know what would have made the Jotunheim an even bigger value and significantly more versatile?
  
 A switch that lets you toggle between fixed or variable outputs. 
  
 It would allow the volume pot to be bypassed and transform it into a fully balanced USB DAC or MM phono pre.  It would also allow any incoming signal to be directly passed through to a set of desktop speakers, so you won't have to keep unplugging the headphones and adjusting the volume knob every time you want to do this.
  
 Maybe we'll see it on the Jotunheim 2.


----------



## Allanmarcus

xero1 said:


> You know what would have made the Jotunheim an even bigger value and significantly more versatile?
> 
> A switch that lets you toggle between fixed or variable outputs.
> 
> ...




I've asked many times, but still not sure of the functionality. Does having a headphone plugged in (either balanced or SE) cut out the pre-outs? Is the volume fixed or variable with the pre-outs? You sound like you know the answers.


----------



## JohnBal

allanmarcus said:


> I've asked many times, but still not sure of the functionality. Does having a headphone plugged in (either balanced or SE) cut out the pre-outs? Is the volume fixed or variable with the pre-outs? You sound like you know the answers.


 
 I don't think Schiit has confirmed, but going by the fact that these are pre outs and not line/tape outs, they would be variable. Line/tape outs are not normally variable. All other Schiit amps with pre outs will disable the pre outs when a headphone cable is plugged in.


----------



## Oklahoma

allanmarcus said:


> I've asked many times, but still not sure of the functionality. Does having a headphone plugged in (either balanced or SE) cut out the pre-outs? Is the volume fixed or variable with the pre-outs? You sound like you know the answers.




Thus far all of schiit's amps except for mjolnir and Ragnarok mute the preamp out when you plug in headphones. Mjolnir is I believe something to do with the fact it uses circlotron topology and ragnarok because you can select what output to use and can have both speaker and headphone outs at the same time. So this should mute the preamp outs with plugging in headphones. The preamp outs are variable. It is in the name. Preamp outs control volume going to an amp and line out is a full power signal. Since they are preamp out they would be controlled by the volume knob. It sounds like you select the input and all outputs are active so if you select single ended in it will output that through the single ended and balanced outputs at the same time.


----------



## ThurstonX

Just for the record, the original Lyr does not mute the preamp outs when headphones are plugged in.  That was corrected with the Lyr 2, IIRC.


----------



## Allanmarcus

oklahoma said:


> allanmarcus said:
> 
> 
> > I've asked many times, but still not sure of the functionality. Does having a headphone plugged in (either balanced or SE) cut out the pre-outs? Is the volume fixed or variable with the pre-outs? You sound like you know the answers.
> ...


 

 This makes complete sense. post #70 was fulla schiit then 
  
 As for pre-amp meaning variable by definition, I don't think that is totally true The wikipedia definition of a home audio preamp is "may sometimes be used to describe equipment which merely switches between different line level sources and applies a volume control". I've heard of equipment that doesn't control volume but allows for input switching referred to my their manufactures as "pre-amps". My Oppo HA-1 can have fixed pre-amp outs and allows for input switching, and it's still a pre-amp.
  
 Variable volume pre-outs and muted pre-outs when headphones are plugged in is probably the most desired configuration, so that would be good schiit.


----------



## pctazhp

allanmarcus said:


> This makes complete sense. post #70 was fulla schiit then
> 
> As for pre-amp meaning variable by definition, I don't think that is totally true The wikipedia definition of a home audio preamp is "may sometimes be used to describe equipment which merely switches between different line level sources and applies a volume control". I've heard of equipment that doesn't control volume but allows for input switching referred to my their manufactures as "pre-amps". My Oppo HA-1 can have fixed pre-amp outs and allows for input switching, and it's still a pre-amp.
> 
> Variable volume pre-outs and muted pre-outs when headphones are plugged in is probably the most desired configuration, so that would be good schiit.


 
 It's been over a decade since I owned a high-end, speaker-based system. But back in the dark ages most preamps had both level control AND balance control. I don't understand why headphone oriented amps are often also used for speaker systems. I guess people who do that just want a unified system and don't mind sacrificing balance control.


----------



## Allanmarcus

pctazhp said:


> allanmarcus said:
> 
> 
> > This makes complete sense. post #70 was fulla schiit then
> ...


 

 In my case, I have decent speakers next to my computer, so I would prefer to have some unification in devices on my desk. Many people here may have a headphone rig near their computer, and also some desktop powered speakers.


----------



## pctazhp

allanmarcus said:


> In my case, I have decent speakers next to my computer, so I would prefer to have some unification in devices only desk. Many people here may have a headphone rig near their computer, and also some desktop powered speakers.


 
 I understand )))


----------



## gr8soundz

allanmarcus said:


> Gimmick comes across strong, probably too strong. I didn't mean it negatively. I meant the slot doesn't add value to the serious audiophile and is more of a marketing/packing vehicle. To those that want just one device on the desk and don't want to worry about extra cables, this is a good amp. To those that like to swap components, mix and match and try new things, this is an amp.
> 
> For those that want one device and have a computer and a turntable, the Jot misses the mark unfortunately.
> 
> That all said, the jot is primarily a stone headphone amp. It will be great when the reviews, measurements, and comparisons start rolling in.


 
  
 Lost count of how many times some of us have asked/wished for an integrated (yet modular) balanced dac inside our headphone amps. Btw, we also  asked for the amp to be balanced and there aren't many small, affordable, high-powered, balanced headphone amps.
  
 Now that one is finally here, I can't believe some of the comments about the Jot's dac section. No way an optional $99, dual AKM chip, fully-balanced dac should be considered so little value.
  
 Chassis is far too small for even an SE R2R dac (much less balanced) and DS chips are still being used all the time because the implementation is most important (even the Senn HE 1 uses a single ESS chip).
  
 So, unless the actual sound the dac module puts out is terrible compared to totl external dacs, I don't understand how its anything less than a good option. Maybe Schiit should have given the dac a higher price to avoid it be valued (initially) solely on the $ attached to it.


----------



## Oklahoma

I doubt the dac will be a slouch. I picked up jotenheim with the dac even though I have yggy sitting on my desk. I won't use the dac often but if I want to pack up an amp for something I can just take jotenheim with and have a good dac with me as well. The convenience is there for me on that. Most of the time it will be hooked up to yggy as balanced and then to my desktop monitors for speaker sound and I can plug headphones in whenever. This also leaves things open so I don't have to use lyr with everything or have other control for speakers and can use tubes when I want without worrying about putting the lisst in just to keep it on to control my speaker volume.


----------



## LajostheHun

chowmein83 said:


> I did not (would have been kind of weird to lug my own amp to the event). However, I did make the disclaimer that this "comparison" was purely based on my experiences with the LC with a variety of gear, so yeah you should take it with a grain of salt. But I don't think I'm totally inaccurate about it (for example, I think it's quite obvious that the Jotunheim is brighter than the LC).



The only thing that is obvious is the differences in their physical appearances, everything else is open to any subjective interpretation .


----------



## rsnblmn

oklahoma said:


> I doubt the dac will be a slouch. I picked up jotenheim with the dac even though I have yggy sitting on my desk. I won't use the dac often but if I want to pack up an amp for something I can just take jotenheim with and have a good dac with me as well. The convenience is there for me on that. Most of the time it will be hooked up to yggy as balanced and then to my desktop monitors for speaker sound and I can plug headphones in whenever. This also leaves things open so I don't have to use lyr with everything or have other control for speakers and can use tubes when I want without worrying about putting the lisst in just to keep it on to control my speaker volume.


 
  
 The 4490 is absolutely no slouch. I had a Bifrost 4490 which I later upgraded to Bimby when it became available, and for a lot of "popular" music / less than perfect recordings, I actually slightly preferred the 4490 as it sounds a little more forgiving, IMHO.
  
 Thats's why I picked up the Jotunheim with the DAC module as well, so that I'd have the option of switching between 4490 and my Bimby based on what I feel like listening to.  At $99, it was pretty much a no-brainer for me.  I agree that the only downside to the option seems to be that some people will dismiss it on price without even giving it a chance.


----------



## lenroot77

I wouldn't just assume the 4490 module will sound like a 4490 Bifrost. It's more about the implementation then the actual chip.

 Similar? Sure it's possible... But it's more about how Schiit has chosen to integrate the chip into the system. The actual Dac chip probably doesn't cost Schiit more than 2 or 3 dollars each. 

That being said this product appears to bring a lot of bang for the buck. I'm excited to hear it.


----------



## Allanmarcus

Come on folks NO ONE accused the DAC of been a slouch. That's one person misinterpretation of my post. I certainly never said or implied any such thing. 

The May very well be great, but it's integrated, even if it is modular. For years Schiit trained us to want components. There is room for integrated (most probably prefer integrated), but you can't easily swap it out with another DAC. That's the inherent difference between integrated and separates. 

Internal modular audiophile hasn't taken off for a reason, and not because companies haven't tried. 

To be extremely clear. The $100 DAC option is a great value. There is not reason to continue to say it's not a slouch. No one said it was.


----------



## cmabooty

It'll be interesting to see what happens with Asgard now. A Jotunheim minus the expansion slot?

I hope all the chassis designs get rid of the visible screws, but I'm not a fan of the L-bend as much as the U-bend.

They've constantly added features though:
Pre outs
Switchable gain
Muting relays
Is this the first of switchable balanced?


----------



## madwolfa

cmabooty said:


> It'll be interesting to see what happens with Asgard now. A Jotunheim minus the expansion slot?
> 
> I hope all the chassis designs get rid of the visible screws, but I'm not a fan of the L-bend as much as the U-bend.


 
  
 Nothing will happen to Asgard as it remains the only pure Class A amplifier in the lineup, while being $150 cheaper.
  
 I also don't like the L-bend. It looks too Modi/Magni-esque to me.


----------



## orphean

Hey now, I like how the Magni and Modi look


----------



## RickB

madwolfa said:


> Nothing will happen to Asgard as it remains the only pure Class A amplifier in the lineup, while being $150 cheaper.
> 
> I also don't like the L-bend. It looks too Modi/Magni-esque to me.


 
 Press-in feet!


----------



## Verde

Newb question: If I were to buy a little 6 inch cable with a termination of a male 4 pin balanced xlr (to plug into the Joti) and the other end terminated in a 6.3mm female port (so I could just plug my SE terminated cans into it), would I get full power output/ benefits of the balanced headphone amp jack? I really want to take advantage of that power without recabling several cans. 
  
 I have been eyeing a Modi Multi Bit for some time to pair with my G109A, but this has more power and would match perfectly in its standard silver. The Modi's silver with the G109's gold and black would grate on me I think--always plasti-dip I guess.


----------



## Vigrith

gr8soundz said:


> So, unless the actual sound the dac module puts out is terrible compared to totl external dacs, I don't understand how its anything less than a good option. Maybe Schiit should have given the dac a higher price to avoid it be valued (initially) solely on the $ attached to it.


 
  
 Some people will always find a way to see anything that is shy of perfect as something that should be improved upon rather than as an achievement (that *could *potentially be improved later). It's a shame.


----------



## ThurstonX

verde said:


> Newb question: If I were to buy a little 6 inch cable with a termination of a male 4 pin balanced xlr (to plug into the Joti) and the other end terminated in a 6.3mm female port (so I could just plug my SE terminated cans into it), would I get full power output/ benefits of the balanced headphone amp jack? I really want to take advantage of that power without recabling several cans.
> 
> I have been eyeing a Modi Multi Bit for some time to pair with my G109A, but this has more power and would match perfectly in its standard silver. The Modi's silver with the G109's gold and black would grate on me I think--always plasti-dip I guess.


 
  
 from: https://www.moon-audio.com/single-ended-versus-balanced-headphone-cables
  
 "You can not convert a Single ended Headphone to balanced. This will damage your balanced headphone amp as the grounds are tied."
  
 Another link that may prove (un)helpful 
 https://www.headphone.com/pages/balanced-headphones-guide


----------



## gr8soundz

lenroot77 said:


> I wouldn't just assume the 4490 module will sound like a 4490 Bifrost. It's more about the implementation then the actual chip.
> 
> Similar? Sure it's possible... But it's more about how Schiit has chosen to integrate the chip into the system. *The actual Dac chip probably doesn't cost Schiit more than 2 or 3 dollars each.*
> 
> That being said this product appears to bring a lot of bang for the buck. I'm excited to hear it.


 
  
 True. But Schiit seems like one of the few companies trying to avoid boutique pricing (which I hope continues). Total cost of the module (including the chips, board, labor, tooling, etc.) might be less than $40. But instead of pricing it at $400 they simply ask $99. Not bad for their growing engineering prowess and higher U.S. labor costs. They even go the extra mile to explain the higher, triple-digit costs of each chip inside their 4-figure multibit dacs. Hard to say the Yggy is overpriced when you know the dac chips alone cost $800 (from memory; correct me if this is wrong).
  


allanmarcus said:


> Come on folks NO ONE accused the DAC of been a slouch. That's one person misinterpretation of my post. I certainly never said or implied any such thing.
> 
> The May very well be great, but it's integrated, even if it is modular. For years Schiit trained us to want components. There is room for integrated (most probably prefer integrated), but you can't easily swap it out with another DAC. That's the inherent difference between integrated and separates.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I didn't mean to imply you said anything bad about the dac. In fact, you were replying to someone else's post about that. I should have quoted them instead but the word 'value' in yours caught my attention.
  
 Agreed, modularity hasn't taken off but mostly because companies who market them don't follow up on their promises. But Schiit seems different; like the Bifrost multibit upgrade. Was great to see that for those who already owned an AKM version. It's like Schiit knew the leftover AKM modules might lose some value but they just didn't care.


----------



## gr8soundz

verde said:


> I have been eyeing a Modi Multi Bit for some time to pair with my G109A, but this has more power and would match perfectly in its standard silver. The Modi's silver with the G109's gold and black would grate on me I think--always *plasti-dip* I guess.


 
  
 Haha. I just ordered a 22oz can of Plasti Dip yesterday for another project.......


----------



## jjacq

This is such great value for anyone who's looking for an all in one.


----------



## lenroot77

gr8soundz said:


> True. But Schiit seems like one of the few companies trying to avoid boutique pricing (which I hope continues). Total cost of the module (including the chips, board, labor, tooling, etc.) might be less than $40. But instead of pricing it at $400 they simply ask $99. Not bad for their growing engineering prowess and higher U.S. labor costs. They even go the extra mile to explain the higher, triple-digit costs of each chip inside their 4-figure multibit dacs. Hard to say the Yggy is overpriced when you know the dac chips alone cost $800 (from memory; correct me if this is wrong).




I was by no means taking a dig at Schiit by stating the Dac chip price, my point was the cost and quality of the Dac is in everything else surrounding the chip.

Totally agree with your points they are to be commended for their efforts and pricing, as well as the quality of their products. I'd also add they were excellent with a magni repair I had a year or so back.


----------



## cmabooty

The expansion module is interesting. Personally I'd never buy the $99 DAC card though -- I'd just get a modi. He hints at other cards coming (DSD?) or maybe even something like a tuner or Bluetooth module? I'll have to keep an eye on this.

@jude No pics of the new feet??


----------



## defbear

Seems like an home run for the price. If I had missed out on the Liquid Carbon, I would be grabbing one of these.


----------



## xuan87

cmabooty said:


> The expansion module is interesting. Personally I'd never buy the $99 DAC card though -- I'd just get a modi. He hints at other cards coming (DSD?) or maybe even something like a tuner or Bluetooth module? I'll have to keep an eye on this.
> 
> @jude No pics of the new feet??




It will be interesting to compare the $99 DAC module to the Modi, Modi Uber, and Bifrost. I highly believe that the module should sound better than the Modi/ Uber but it becomes less clear with the Bifrost.

The $99 module sounds like a fantastic deal for having a balanced dac. Yes, the dac chip itself is cheap but don't forget the extra circuitry that goes into accommodating the addition chip. And know Mike, he won't have cut any corners in designing "just a dac module'


----------



## gr8soundz

defbear said:


> Seems like an home run for the price. If I had missed out on the Liquid Carbon, I would be grabbing one of these.


 
  
 I missed out on the LC (twice) so the Jot (with the dac module) will be on my desktop.
  
 Ironically, I remember the separate dac thread just for the LC. Thread got pretty long with all of us looking for the right balanced dac. There were also rumors of a Cavalli dac after several us asked  if Alex could *integrate* one into to LC.


----------



## lugnut

cmabooty said:


> Emotiva's XDA-2 did all of this, along with multiple inputs (coax, 2 toslink, AES and USB) for less than $300 (I got mine for $200 as they lowered the price near the end)
> 
> Granted it was bigger and not upgrade able, but the volume control between the preamp and headphone also had a memory function.
> 
> It had balanced in and out, but NOT a headphone balanced out.


 
 Yes, however the xda-2 had a weak headphone amp, in my humble opinion.


----------



## fjrabon

So, yes, in a DAC implementation matters as much or more than the chips. But let me say, I have a DAC that uses the same dual AK4490 configuration, the Cayin iDAC6 and it DESTROYS every other D/S DAC I've heard. In fact it exceeds the Modi multibit in some ways. It easily beats the Grace m9XX as a DAC (which uses a single AK4490). So, unless Schitt dropped the ball in the rest of the implementation (something they're not known for doing), I'd expect the DAC in the Joty to be REALLY good. The iDAC6 has a substantially beefier power supply and buffer stage to the Joty's so, I'd expect some drop off there. But I would be shocked if the DAC unit on this didn't wipe the floor with the modi2U in sound quality from USB.


----------



## Stratos27

erik701 said:


> I would be curious how will end comparison of OPPO HA-1 vs Schiit Jotunheim in terms of sound quality.



Would be very curious myself,to hear that comparison.


----------



## ToddRaymond

I like the fact that it's quite energy efficient.  My Ayre power amp uses 360 watts when in operating mode with no signal, so I gotta make up for it somewhere I guess.  This one uses less than a Mjolnir. I wonder how it sounds compared to a (solid state) Mjolnir, or how the single ended performance compares to an Asgard 2; or how the phono module sounds.
  
 Quote:


jjacq said:


> This is such great value for anyone who's looking for an all in one.


 
 I think it could be good just as an amp, with or without an expansion module.


----------



## grrorr76

fjrabon said:


> So, yes, in a DAC implementation matters as much or more than the chips. But let me say, I have a DAC that uses the same dual AK4490 configuration, the Cayin iDAC6 and it DESTROYS every other D/S DAC I've heard. In fact it exceeds the Modi multibit in some ways. It easily beats the Grace m9XX as a DAC (which uses a single AK4490). So, unless Schitt dropped the ball in the rest of the implementation (something they're not known for doing), I'd expect the DAC in the Joty to be REALLY good. The iDAC6 has a substantially beefier power supply and buffer stage to the Joty's so, I'd expect some drop off there. But I would be shocked if the DAC unit on this didn't wipe the floor with the modi2U in sound quality from USB.


 

 I reckon your spot on there. I can't see Schist releasing anything substandard. I ordered one based on this belief.


----------



## fjrabon

grrorr76 said:


> I reckon your spot on there. I can't see Schist releasing anything substandard. I ordered one based on this belief.




Yeah, they sometimes release stuff that I don't personally love but it usually has more to do with preference than being sub-par. I'm not a huge fan of their amps, but I appreciate them for what they are. Their DACs I love, pretty much top to bottom other than the old Modi.


----------



## bobbyg1983

I'm considering getting a new headphone amp, was set on the Vallhala 2, but now wondering about this. 

Assuming:

• I'm using an external DAC (currently Modi 2 Uber, future upgrade to Bimby); and
• Sennheiser HD650 exclusively, willing to invest in balanced cables 

Would be curious to compare:

• Valhalla 2
• Jotunheim (SE)
• Jotunheim (Balanced)

I'm curious about exploring a balanced setup (and wonder if Schiit will release a balanced Bifrost/Bimby in the future to match Jotunheim), but I know the HD650s have a special synergy with OTLs like Valhalla. For these cans only, what do you reckon is the better choice?


----------



## zeissiez

fjrabon said:


> grrorr76 said:
> 
> 
> > I reckon your spot on there. I can't see Schist releasing anything substandard. I ordered one based on this belief.
> ...




Same here, I like Schiit DACs, but less so with Schiit amps. The amps, even the Ragnarok, don't bring that level of transparency of great amps, and not even at the level AudioGD amps. AudioGD has great emphasis in the power supply in their design, just look at the 3 big R-core transformers in their top amps, and most of the components are dedicated to the power supply circuitries. But I think not all people value transparency.


----------



## slex

Dun forget this amp have "pivot point" and " C" core transformer , those are newly implemented. Will like to know how it sound against other schiit amps.


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

bobbyg1983 said:


> I'm considering getting a new headphone amp, was set on the Vallhala 2, but now wondering about this.
> 
> Assuming:
> 
> ...




My daily driver is an HD600. I have it balanced but used it single ended with an adapter to the Valhalla 2. I agree on the synergy between that amp and the HD6x0 line. I'm selling my Valhalla 2 and moving to a Joti, but I also use some planars and IEMs and the Joti drives them all, whereas the Valhalla 2 does not (I currently have a separate SS amp for those which I will also be selling when the Joti arrives). 

I'll say this, if you suppose the Valhalla 2 has total synergy with the HD6x0, then I'd put the Joti at 85% of that. This is using the HD600 balanced. I usually don't like the 600 with SS amps, but the Joti paired very well with the 600. I don't think I'll miss the Valhalla 2, even though it is very good with the right headphone pairing. 

If you aren't jumping into a balanced setup with both feet, stick with what you have for now. However, you could get the Joti with the DAC module and sell the M2U, then balance your 650. That would give you a totally balanced setup and you could wait to see if Schiit announces a balanced Bifrost, or just save up for a Gumby/Yggy. 

Personally if I only used a 650 and didn't have any balanced components, I wouldn't switch to the Jotunheim at this time. Because I have multiple headphones, all balanced but otherwise with different power requirements, the Joti makes complete sense for me. 

You don't lose anything by waiting.


----------



## xuan87

I still don't think Schiit will come out with a balanced Bifrost, don't see how it fits into their DAC line up.Regarding Schiit DAC options for the Jot, they have it fully covered from the DAC module, to the Mimby all the way up to the Yggy.


----------



## Maelob

For the record, I think I am a seriuos audiophile and I appreciate affordable products that provide value- why people always have to assume we have to spend thousands to get "serious audiophile sound" just saying. I like the all in one solution for a desktop system.


----------



## bobbyg1983

merrick said:


> My daily driver is an HD600. I have it balanced but used it single ended with an adapter to the Valhalla 2. I agree on the synergy between that amp and the HD6x0 line. I'm selling my Valhalla 2 and moving to a Joti, but I also use some planars and IEMs and the Joti drives them all, whereas the Valhalla 2 does not (I currently have a separate SS amp for those which I will also be selling when the Joti arrives).
> 
> I'll say this, if you suppose the Valhalla 2 has total synergy with the HD6x0, then I'd put the Joti at 85% of that. This is using the HD600 balanced. I usually don't like the 600 with SS amps, but the Joti paired very well with the 600. I don't think I'll miss the Valhalla 2, even though it is very good with the right headphone pairing.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the considered response, very helpful!

I'll be hanging on to the M2U as I use the optical input for tv/movies/games along with USB for PC music. Hopefully it's roughly on par with the Joti DAC module, or at least close enough that I'm not missing much until I take a bigger step up Schiit's DAC line. 

Decisions, decisions. If the Joti is not markedly better than Valhalla 2 with HD650s (even comparing Joti balanced vs Valhalla SE), or potentially not even quite as good lacking some of the synergy/magic, then might as well go with the V2 and get the fun of tube rolling and tube glow and live happily ever after.


----------



## Redcarmoose

gr8soundz said:


> Lost count of how many times some of us have asked/wished for an integrated (yet modular) balanced dac inside our headphone amps. Btw, we also  asked for the amp to be balanced and there aren't many small, affordable, high-powered, balanced headphone amps.
> 
> Now that one is finally here, I can't believe some of the comments about the Jot's dac section. No way an optional $99, dual AKM chip, fully-balanced dac should be considered so little value.
> 
> ...




When folks emtionally look at the price of the DAC card, they think it must inherently be a low cost DAC, so it must not perform well.

We must remember the cost is low in integrated applications because the DAC card already has a case and power supply included.

The other benefits of integrated is you need one less set of interconnects, a smaller form factor and only one on and off switch to worry about.


----------



## occamsrazor

Has anyone seen specs of what sample rates etc the DAC module will accept? What about DSD? Can't see any of this info on the site....


----------



## oldschool

redcarmoose said:


> When folks emtionally look at the price of the DAC card, they think it must inherently be a low cost DAC, so it must not perform well.
> 
> We must remember the cost is low in integrated applications because the DAC card already has a case and power supply included.
> 
> The other benefits of integrated is you need one less set of interconnects, a smaller form factor and only one on and off switch to worry about.


 
  
 You can also consider that the DAC has only USB input and that Schiit already makes most of its markup on the cost of the main amp unit so they probably don't need to set the price of the DAC too high.


----------



## martyn73

Can the Joty act solely as an external DAC? I'm hoping it can be used both as a combined amp/DAC for my HD650 and just a DAC for my Stax electrostatic system which requires its own amp. The small size is an advantage so it can be moved easily.


----------



## Allanmarcus

martyn73 said:


> Can the Joty act solely as an external DAC? I'm hoping it can be used both as a combined amp/DAC for my HD650 and just a DAC for my Stax electrostatic system which requires its own amp. The small size is an advantage so it can be moved easily.




We believe it can be, but you may have to unplug headphones from the Joti to use it as a DAC through the pre-outs. Also, the volume on the Joti controls the power out to the pre-outs. There doesn't appear to be a fixed output option.


----------



## Hutnicks

oldschool said:


> You can also consider that the DAC has only USB input and that Schiit already makes most of its markup on the cost of the main amp unit so they probably don't need to set the price of the DAC too high.


 

 That and perhaps the topology was already done with the Fulla development.


----------



## Herueyes

occamsrazor said:


> Has anyone seen specs of what sample rates etc the DAC module will accept? What about DSD? Can't see any of this info on the site....


 
  
  
 All I see is that it uses 2 chips in a balanced config... I guess one per channel...
  
 "AK4490 DAC Module. _Jotunheim’s optional DAC module uses two AK4490 DACs in a hardware-balanced configuration, with a passive-filtered output stage and asynchronous USB Gen 2 input._"
  
 It should have enough get up and go to do DSD...
  
 Peace...


----------



## RKML0007

Muwahahahahah!!!!!!!!


----------



## Herueyes

rkml0007 said:


> Muwahahahahah!!!!!!!!


 
  
  
 I like that Random Number 0...


----------



## Badfish5446

herueyes said:


> All I see is that it uses 2 chips in a balanced config... I guess one per channel...
> 
> "AK4490 DAC Module. _Jotunheim’s optional DAC module uses two AK4490 DACs in a hardware-balanced configuration, with a passive-filtered output stage and asynchronous USB Gen 2 input._"
> 
> ...


 
 Given Schiit's published feelings toward DSD and the fact its one of the few products they have pulled off the market (Loki) I don't see DSD being applicable to this unit.


----------



## gr8soundz

redcarmoose said:


> When folks emtionally look at the price of the DAC card, they think it must inherently be a low cost DAC, so it must not perform well.
> 
> We must remember the cost is low in integrated applications because the DAC card already has a case and power supply included.
> 
> The other benefits of integrated is you need one less set of interconnects, a smaller form factor and only one on and off switch to worry about.


 


oldschool said:


> You can also consider that the DAC has only USB input and that Schiit already makes most of its markup on the cost of the main amp unit so they probably don't need to set the price of the DAC too high.


 
  
 The Jot dac module is usb powered (and only has usb input) just like the Fulla and base Modi which both have metal casings and outputs yet cost the same or less. The Fulla is $20 less and still has a headphone amp with rotary volume control.
  
 So Schiit, compared to other companies, could charge whatever they wanted and we'd still have little to complain about.


----------



## Oklahoma

gr8soundz said:


> The Jot dac module is usb powered (and only has usb input) just like the Fulla and base Modi which both have metal casings and outputs yet cost the same or less. The Fulla is $20 less and still has a headphone amp with rotary volume control.
> 
> So Schiit, compared to other companies, could charge whatever they wanted and we'd still have little to complain about.




Correct but since they don't have to also do a case and such for it they can pack more into the card for the same price. I figure if they did a case to make the dac card a standalone it would run in the 150 to 200 range instead of just 100.


----------



## Letmebefrank

Got a shipping notification for my Jotunheim, cant wait to try the HD650s balanced. I'll have to re-terminate one of my cables to 4 pin xlr though. Wednesday cant come soon enough!


----------



## RickB

allanmarcus said:


> I've asked many times, but still not sure of the functionality. Does having a headphone plugged in (either balanced or SE) cut out the pre-outs? Is the volume fixed or variable with the pre-outs? You sound like you know the answers.


 
 According to Nick at Schiit Audio, plugging in headphones does NOT mute the preamp outputs.


----------



## HPLobster

Does anyone know when it´s going to be available on schiit-europe.com? I am sold already...... the only caveat is that I´d like to have both implemented now, DAC AND Phono-preamp 


BTW the AK4490 is used also in the Astell&Kern AK300 (and the Dual-DAC in the AK320 and AK380 correspondingly) as well as in the Luxury&Precision L5Pro, it´s a sublime DAC-Chip! 

Schiit would have to screw up the implementation royally to....... wait ..... what was I about to say again? h34r:


----------



## rwelles

rickb said:


> According to Nick at Schiit Audio, plugging in headphones does NOT mute the preamp outputs.


 

 Bummer!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I might buy it anyway, but it would be ideal for me if it did mute the preamp.


----------



## Mudshark

letmebefrank said:


> Got a shipping notification for my Jotunheim, cant wait to try the HD650s balanced. I'll have to re-terminate one of my cables to 4 pin xlr though. Wednesday cant come soon enough!


 
  
 Just got my shipping notification for the amp-only Jotunheim I order Saturday evening.  This will be my first piece of Schiit and I can't wait.  I will run my LCD-2F single-ended initially, and if the sonic signature is good I will be looking for a balanced cable soon enough (Norne?).


----------



## KG Jag

mudshark said:


> letmebefrank said:
> 
> 
> > Got a shipping notification for my Jotunheim, cant wait to try the HD650s balanced. I'll have to re-terminate one of my cables to 4 pin xlr though. Wednesday cant come soon enough!
> ...


 

 Norne does good work, but don't count on "soon".


----------



## MattTCG

mudshark said:


> Just got my shipping notification for the amp-only Jotunheim I order Saturday evening.  This will be my first piece of Schiit and I can't wait.  I will run my LCD-2F single-ended initially, and if the sonic signature is good I will be looking for a balanced cable soon enough (Norne?).


 
  
 I'm giving Norne high praise for build quality, materials and price. Do be prepared to wait a bit though.


----------



## Badfish5446

oklahoma said:


> Correct but since they don't have to also do a case and such for it they can pack more into the card for the same price. I figure if they did a case to make the dac card a standalone it would run in the 150 to 200 range instead of just 100.


 
 The AKM 4490 is available in the Modi Uber, so this is essentially already done sans the "x2" balanced part.  That runs $149 so you're range is probably spot on for a balanced version "with case".


----------



## ToddRaymond

I'm looking forward to some direct comparisons between the Jotunheim and The Asgard 2 and either the original Mjolnir or Mjolnir 2 with LISST.


----------



## MWSVette

My Jotunheim is on its way.  Go Schiit way to ship fast.
  
 Now I gotta wait...  Ugh...


----------



## MattTCG

mwsvette said:


> My Jotunheim is on its way.  Go Schiit way to ship fast.
> 
> Now I gotta wait...  Ugh...


 
  
 I'm shipped. Thanks to Schiit for the fast shipping. Should make it just in time for the meet this weekend.


----------



## Darnit

mudshark said:


> Just got my shipping notification for the amp-only Jotunheim I order Saturday evening.  This will be my first piece of Schiit and I can't wait.  I will run my LCD-2F single-ended initially, and if the sonic signature is good I will be looking for a balanced cable soon enough (Norne?).


 
 "This will be my first piece of Schiit and I can't wait." Hilarious. Best use of the name so far.
 I have been a lurker on this forum for a while and i just joined because of this post.


----------



## FLTWS

slex said:


> Dun forget this amp have "pivot point" and " C" core transformer , those are newly implemented. Will like to know how it sound against other schiit amps.


 
  
 Me also. Especially the Jot as a headphone only amplifier versus the Rag as a headphone only amp.


----------



## lenroot77

darnit said:


> "This will be my first piece of Schiit and I can't wait." Hilarious. Best use of the name so far.
> I have been a lurker on this forum for a while and i just joined because of this post.




Good luck with your first Schiit!


----------



## Shogster

I am really thinking about selling my Parasound Zdac V2,and return the Magni 2U i just ordered for the Jotunheim.I really wanted an all-in-one unit use my LSR305s and the Purplehearts,but ultimately decided on a separate units.And having a great Dac,a balanced pre outs and a very good amp in one is definetly tempting.I will have to see if i like the sound of the Magni fed from the Parasound first though.And i am wondering also,if the 15 day return policy applies if i bought my Schiit from schiit-europe?


----------



## terencetcf

Erm.. Just got Chord mojo, if not really might consider this as well....:rolleyes:


----------



## jfoxvol

Mine with phono input shipped today. Gonna be a fun weekend.


----------



## mithrandir38

matttcg said:


> I'm giving Norne high praise for build quality, materials and price. Do be prepared to wait a bit though.


 Norne takes a few weeks, but compared to DHC, that's express!


----------



## KG Jag

mithrandir38 said:


> matttcg said:
> 
> 
> > I'm giving Norne high praise for build quality, materials and price. Do be prepared to wait a bit though.
> ...


 
  
 Mileage may vary, but in my case it was a few (or more) months.


----------



## franzdom

This summer I got Bimby & Lyr, I wonder if I may have gone this route instead...? Probably. No regrets though, I am enjoying the tubes!


----------



## Alex Martin

A few updates and answers to questions:
  
 We shipped just about all of the US voltage Jotunheim orders that we received over the weekend.  We cut off shipping at around noon Pacific today, if your order came in around that time or after we'll ship tomorrow.
  
 The 220 - 240v units will start going out tomorrow.  Sorry for the delay.  We are very careful to keep different voltage units apart during building, burn-in, and testing to avoid voltage mix-ups.  The first batch of 230s are in sound check now and will be ready to go in the morning.
  
 We will try to get Jotunheim over to our distributors as quickly as possible.  We just started our production run less than 9 days ago and we are still building inventory. We will fill distributor orders once we have enough stock.  Please be nice to the folks over at our UK and Netherlands distributors, the lack of stock is our fault, not theirs.  Our list of official distributors can be found here:  http://schiit.com/faq/international.  Both schiit-europe.com (Sonority Audio in Netherlands) and schiit.eu.com (Electromod in the UK) are authorized distributors in excellent standing with Schiit.  We have a gentleman's agreement in place where our UK distributor won't ship to Netherlands and vice versa.


----------



## 3ggerhappy

alex martin said:


> A few updates and answers to questions:
> 
> We shipped just about all of the US voltage Jotunheim orders that we received over the weekend.  We cut off shipping at around noon Pacific today, if your order came in around that time or after we'll ship tomorrow.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Thanks for the update. Can't wait for mine but will have to wait till tomorrow since I ordered a 230.


----------



## Vigrith

alex martin said:


> A few updates and answers to questions:


 
  
 Appreciate the updates Alex, thanks a lot. Hopefully I speak for others when I say I wouldn't hassle/blame you nor the European dealers for a couple days of delay when it comes to having Jotunheims to ship on demand - glad to hear the 230vs will start getting shipped out tomorrow, hopefully I'll manage to snag one from Sonority before I go on holiday Wednesday.


----------



## Gamingmusiclove

I'm interested. Having just one unit instead of 2 is helpful and it means less cables (who doesn't hate cables?). From what i've seen, it can drive some of those heavy weights like the HD800S. I must admit i'm surprised. Well done Schiit
  
 P.D. It seems as of lately as if "modular" was the new catchphrase. Gotta add it somewhere in your profile Jason 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 !


----------



## rmullins08

kg jag said:


> Mileage may vary, but in my case it was a few (or more) months.


 
 Yeah, I was around 5 months.  Beautiful quality and still happy with the purchase.  Wasn't in any rush so wasn't bothered by it.  Trevor was very responsive about the delays.


----------



## 3ggerhappy

ccxr594 said:


> Here is a link to the manufacturer of the AK4490 chip being used.
> 
> tl:dr
> *[Features]*
> ...


 
  
  


alex martin said:


> A few updates and answers to questions:


 
  
 Hi Alex, Can you please enlighten us with the Balanced Dac implementation if it will be able to utilize the chip features above(especially DSD)? Very curious to know.
  
 Thank you!


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

Do any of Schiit's other D/S DACs support DSD? If not, why would we expect this one to?


----------



## dglow

The Jotty DAC will never support DSD. Read any of Baldr or Jason's posts about DSD – or their recent press release regarding MQA – to understand why.


----------



## LoryWiv

dglow said:


> The Jotty DAC will never support DSD. Read any of Baldr or Jason's posts about DSD – or their recent press release regarding MQA – to understand why.


 
 Probably correct....but it'd be good to verify directly from them or anyone who already has a Joty with DAC module in their hands.


----------



## dglow

Are you holding out hope that Schiit will change their minds?


----------



## madwolfa

lorywiv said:


> Probably correct....but it'd be good to verify directly from them or anyone who already has a Joty with DAC module in their hands.


 
  
 It's been already confirmed by Schiit in numerous threads so many times that I've lost count. But some people just keep asking about it over and over again..


----------



## Allanmarcus

I believe Jason said DSD or any other format would need to have significant market share. That makes sense for a company like schiit.

I believe DSD represent less than 1% of music sold. 

That aside, can anyone explain or post a link to a good explanation of a fully differential DAC? It's not dual mono, I think. Does it mean one chip decodes both channels' positive, the other decodes both channels' negative? Hence the differential.


----------



## LoryWiv

dglow said:


> Are you holding out hope that Schiit will change their minds?


 
 I am probably doubly delusional that:
  
 1. I can appreciate meaningful difference between DSD and 24 Bit FLAC (through my iDSD Micro)
 2. That Schiit may change their minds with the Joty DAC module AK4490 chip implememtation.
  
 Based on the above responses in this thread, the Easter Bunny and Tooth Fairy have have both advised me to stand down and not ask again. I will follow that advise. No Schiit.


----------



## FlySweep

Every time someone mentions DSD in this thread.. Mike M. kills a $30 multibit DAC that's fully differential, fits in your pocket, and achieves 95% of the Yggy's SQ.
  
 So... keep it up, dummies.
  
 For real though.. screw DSD.  What a waste of time.  You DSD fanboys have an assload of whiz-bang DSD DACs to chase down these days, right?  The rest of us can enjoy 'pedestrian' FLAC catalogues and whatnot on sweet sounding Schiit MB while you're adding another HDD to your NAS so you can store ten albums.  That's all I'll say about that.


----------



## cthomas

flysweep said:


> Every time someone mentions DSD in this thread.. Mike M. kills a $30 multibit DAC that's fully differential, fits in your pocket, and achieves 95% of the Yggy's SQ.
> 
> So... keep it up, dummies.
> 
> For real though.. screw DSD.  What a waste of time.  You DSD fanboys have an assload of whiz-bang DSD DACs to chase down these days, right?  The rest of us can enjoy 'pedestrian' FLAC catalogues and whatnot on sweet sounding Schiit MB while you're adding another HDD to your NAS so you can store ten albums.  That's all I'll say about that.




I'd suggest you actually give DSD a go before calling people dummies for wanting this feature. The difference between a 16/44.1 and a 24/192 digital file is remarkably indistinguishable yet just about every dac out there offers 24/192. There is a greater difference in SQ between 24 bit files and DSD. It sounds more analogue but obviously some can't tell any difference, hell, some people can't tell the difference between an iTunes MP3 and a flac file. This doesn't mean the difference isn't there. And with hdd space getting cheaper the file sizes aren't really of much concern. Before you pass judgement I suggest listening to something like Hotel California in DSD with a pair of proper headphones like the HD800.


----------



## dglow

lorywiv said:


> dglow said:
> 
> 
> > Are you holding out hope that Schiit will change their minds?
> ...


 
  
 Well I don't think you're delusional at all. DSD DACs definitely sound different, and in a very noticeable way. There are some great recordings available in the format, too, though many have since been released in PCM as well.
  
 Honestly, though, with good sample conversion DSD recordings can sound great on a PCM DAC. Not the same, of course... if you're wed to the signature filtered sound of DSD, then stick with that. But if you haven't tried it yet, give iZotope's DSD->PCM a whirl. I spin SACD ISOs on a Yggy all the time and they sound _fantastic_.


----------



## FlySweep

cthomas said:


> I'd suggest you actually give DSD a go before calling people dummies for wanting this feature. The difference between a 16/44.1 and a 24/192 digital file is remarkably indistinguishable yet just about every dac out there offers 24/192. There is a greater difference in SQ between 24 bit files and DSD. It sounds more analogue but obviously some can't tell any difference, hell, some people can't tell the difference between an iTunes MP3 and a flac file. This doesn't mean the difference isn't there. And with hdd space getting cheaper the file sizes aren't really of much concern. Before you pass judgement I suggest listening to something like Hotel California in DSD with a pair of proper headphones like the HD800.


 
  
 I've given DSD plenty of spin.. on plenty of nice gear.. it's just not worth. the. hassle, IME.  I can tell the difference between lossy & lossless rips.  I've owned the HD800 three times.. and heard it off plenty of great rigs.. so I know what it's capable of resolving.
  
 Also.. Schiit's made their very well-reasoned position on DSD very very clear.. why are DSD fanboys still asking?


----------



## gto88

This unit is a strong competitor to Cayin iDac-6/IHA-6 stack, which runs about $1300 from China.
 Both use AKM4490 for DAC, IHA-6 has more power.
 I am looking where to get Cayin iha-6, and then I see this Schiit new product coming.
 I wonder why Schiit don't provide detailed of feature on the DAC using AKM4490 shoould be DSD capable.
 But why not detail?  Is Sciit planning to lock it and ask for fee to unlock the capability?  I remember there is
 a DAC doing this, don't recall which one.


----------



## escalibur

Any ODAC O2 owners planning to upgrade to this one?  Based on the video review this sound so tempting especially when I'm planning to upgrade my HD650s to T1 Gen 2s or HD800s at some point.


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

gto88 said:


> This unit is a strong competitor to Cayin iDac-6/IHA-6 stack, which runs about $1300 from China.
> Both use AKM4490 for DAC, IHA-6 has more power.
> I am looking where to get Cayin iha-6, and then I see this Schiit new product coming.
> I wonder why Schiit don't provide detailed of feature on the DAC using AKM4490 shoould be DSD capable.
> ...


 

 Schiit has said repeatedly that they are not going to cater to DSD because it has such a tiny marketshare. None of their DACs handle DSD. And Schiit is absolutely not the type of company to purposefully hold back features from their products to make people pay for them later.


----------



## KG Jag

Things are so much easier for those of us focusing on just the amp or the amp + phono stage.


----------



## ToddRaymond

kg jag said:


> Things are so much easier for those of us focusing on just the amp or the amp + phono stage.




Indeedium x one thousand!


----------



## fjrabon

cthomas said:


> I'd suggest you actually give DSD a go before calling people dummies for wanting this feature. The difference between a 16/44.1 and a 24/192 digital file is remarkably indistinguishable yet just about every dac out there offers 24/192. There is a greater difference in SQ between 24 bit files and DSD. It sounds more analogue but obviously some can't tell any difference, hell, some people can't tell the difference between an iTunes MP3 and a flac file. This doesn't mean the difference isn't there. And with hdd space getting cheaper the file sizes aren't really of much concern. Before you pass judgement I suggest listening to something like Hotel California in DSD with a pair of proper headphones like the HD800.




I did a calculation just for schiits and giggles once to figure out what it would take if it was even possible to upgrade my entire music collection to DSD. Right around 40TB. So yeah, space matters for the time being. Now, as an occasional dalliance it's fine, but if it ever blows up, serious music collectors will need 120TB devoted solely to music (if you don't have two back ups you have zero backups). 

Now as to the sonic benefits, I don't think this is the place for a FLAC vs DSD flame war. Schiit is philosophically opposed to DSD and that's probably all that needs to be said here unless it's confirmed the joty will do DSD.


----------



## fjrabon

kg jag said:


> Things are so much easier for those of us focusing on just the amp or the amp + phono stage.




Uh, you've never seen vinyl audiophiles argue about whether double sided vinyl is an abomination? I once saw a vinyl audiophile claim he wanted to rip his eardrums out because he was forced to listen to a turntable setup in a room with air conditioning that was blowing vaguely in the direction of the turntable. 

Things are easier when you focus on enjoying the music. They can get silly in a hurry when you delve into the finer points of any format.


----------



## cthomas

.


----------



## BLacklWf

*PLEASE DON'T HIJACK THE THREAD WITH DSD!!!!  PLEASE DISCUSS OR BATTLE OVER IT SOME WHERE ELSE.*


----------



## Delayeed

lmao it will never stop


----------



## BLacklWf

I know.. just trying.


----------



## cthomas

Apologies, deleted.


----------



## tonykaz

Dear Jude & Everyone interested,
  
 I just checked Ebay for Hifiman HE-6, a few are for sale, some look like NEW old stock.  Prices range from around $600 to around $800 US.
  
 The Jot. sells for $500.
  
 Combined price for a Jot./HE-6  could be from $1,100 to $1,300.  
  
 Question:   
  
 Would a fresh Focal Elear be the more interesting option?
  
 Tony in Michigan
  
 ps.  MM phono Cartridges never were considered "Audiophile" level.  (  I was a MC phono collector, so I'm (very) biased -- Koetsu was King of phono cartridges ) and a very good step-up transformer or MC step-up Amp is quite pricy. ( $500 - $3,000 ) 
  
 ps.2   Schiit don't seem to be promising other plug-in options unlike Chord who promise a range of stuff for the Chord Mojo.
  
 ps.3  a personal 'inside' note :   One of my daughters own a Honda Van identical to your's,  I was waiting for her when I saw you driving by and though you were driving her Van ( for some reason ), you even waved as you drove by.  Imagine how puzzled I was!


----------



## BarDash

OK, so this may be a stupid question and is not solely related to ****t but if a DAC does not support DSD will it still play? Does it scale it down automatically to what it does play? Sorry if that's an ignorant question...


----------



## cthomas

bardash said:


> OK, so this may be a stupid question and is not solely related to ****t but if a DAC does not support DSD will it still play? Does it scale it down automatically to what it does play? Sorry if that's an ignorant question...




I suppose it depends on your software. I use Audirvana which can scale dsd down.


----------



## dglow

PREFACE: responding to a question about enabling DSD playback does *not* open the door to a DSD vs. PCM flame war.
  
 Quote:


bardash said:


> OK, so this may be a stupid question and is not solely related to ****t but if a DAC does not support DSD will it still play? Does it scale it down automatically to what it does play? Sorry if that's an ignorant question...


 

 That's a perfectly fine question.
  
 DSD material can play back on a non-DSD DAC given the right playback software. Apps like JRiver and Audirvana include support for converting from DSD to 24-bit 88.2KHz PCM. The piece of software which makes this work is called a sample rate converter or 'SRC'; iZotope is the brand name for a well-regarded SRC.
  
 So: you set up your software, choose a DSD track to play, and the DAC receives 24/88 audio.


----------



## tonykaz

Mr. BLacklwf,
  
 Well, can we at least discuss the Virgin Birth of Curriwong or Headfi in general? 
  
 DSD died on the Cross of 16/44.1, do some believe it has 'Risen'?  All this stuff sounds like a new religion getting born.  ( perhaps again ) 
  
 We need some old geezer ( like me ) to go to the Desert and receive a Vision ( like I just had after lunch, chocolate gelato ) 
  
 When I become President, I'll ban DSD!    All y'all will have me to thank.
  
 Tony in Michigan


----------



## comzee

Just got it, ready to go through the paces. Going to try it with Yggy / Master 7. Going to try lcd3 and hd800 trs + balanced.
 I bought it with the 4490 dac module, going to give that a try too.
  
  


Spoiler: Image


----------



## Nautrachkfriend

So let me get this straight. If I got a Jotunheim without the dac would I still be able to use the XLR output on the front?


----------



## Mudshark

nautrachkfriend said:


> So let me get this straight. If I got a Jotunheim wiithout the dac would I still be able to use the XLR input in the front?


 
  
 That is an output on the front, and yes, you can use it.


----------



## vhsownsbeta

comzee said:


> Just got it, ready to go through the paces. Going to try it with Yggy / Master 7. Going to try lcd3 and hd800 trs + balanced.
> I bought it with the 4490 dac module, going to give that a try too.
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Looking forward to impressions of Jotun with Yggy. I have a feeling the inbuilt DAC is a limiting factor


----------



## TheRealMVT

vhsownsbeta said:


> Looking forward to impressions of Jotun with Yggy. I have a feeling the inbuilt DAC is a limiting factor :rolleyes:




Consider me interested as well. Looking to upgrade my HD600 to balanced. (Now rocking a modi2u + vali2)


----------



## powermatic

> ps.  MM phono Cartridges never were considered "Audiophile" level.  (  I was a MC phono collector, so I'm (very) biased -- Koetsu was King of phono cartridges ) and a very good step-up transformer or MC step-up Amp is quite pricy. ( $500 - $3,000 )


 
  
  
 'Parks Audio' makes an excellent SUT, using Cinemag  transformers: two gain settings, very quiet, made in U.S., fantastic pre/after sale service, for $330. Would make a nice addition for any low output phono pre, and even comes with an RCA cable (-:. They also build one with more refined Cinemag transformers ($500), but that might be overkill for a $100 phono stage. I'd suggest a Denon DL-103/103r as a great, low cost MC cart if one decides to go this route. No affiliation, blah blah blah.
  
http://parksaudiollc.com/budgiesut.html
  
 You could also purchase the Cinemags and DIY, lots of schematics/tutorials on the web, but be aware of the possibility of ground loops and hum, and how much it sucks chasing those issues down.
  
 Saying all that, there are many musical and resolving MM carts that are easily "Audiophile level",and would pair well with this little Schiit unit. It's unlikely anyone is going to use their Koetsu...


----------



## BLacklWf

cthomas said:


> Apologies, deleted.


 
  
 No apologies needed my friend!


----------



## BLacklWf

tonykaz said:


> Mr. BLacklwf,
> 
> Well, can we at least discuss the Virgin Birth of Curriwong or Headfi in general?
> 
> ...


 
 DSD has risen!  Looking forward to the day you make President!!


----------



## comzee

vhsownsbeta said:


> Looking forward to impressions of Jotun with Yggy. I have a feeling the inbuilt DAC is a limiting factor


 
 Right off the bat I'm noticing something quite odd. I wanted to test Jude's claim of zero IEM noise.
  
  
 I have a Dunu Titan 3 (32ohm) and Dunu dn1000 (10ohm).
  
  
 The results I'm getting, persist with both XLR or SE input, both low and high gain settings.
 The gain noise is zero up until 2/3 into the volume knob, but if you go the last 15%, gain noise goes away!! I'm not sure how that even works.....
  
 Here's an image that kinda illustrates what I mean (black = zero noise) (red = gain noise):


----------



## Redcarmoose




----------



## BLacklWf

comzee said:


> Right off the bat I'm noticing something quite odd. I wanted to test Jude's claim of zero IEM noise.
> 
> 
> I have a Dunu Titan 3 (32ohm) and Dunu dn1000 (10ohm).
> ...


 
 Looking forward for your updates with your testing!


----------



## MonoOno

For those receiving their units please leave some impressions, especially on the DAC and or if you have upgraded from an O2+ODAC.


----------



## vhsownsbeta

comzee said:


> Right off the bat I'm noticing something quite odd. I wanted to test Jude's claim of zero IEM noise.
> 
> 
> I have a Dunu Titan 3 (32ohm) and Dunu dn1000 (10ohm).
> ...


 

 Odd. Does your listening range IEMs fall within the band of gain noise? Do you experience the same phenomena with your full sized headphones?


----------



## acguitar84

I ordered a Jotunheim, I figured it would make a dandy preamp for my desktop computer(s) being fully balanced and all. I'll finally be able to run a fully balanced system, which will be nice. I got the onboard DAC as well, I'm going to use it as the main DAC at work for now, at least for a month or two, until the gumbys or even yggys are being sold again. I would imagine either one of those balanced DAC's would sound great through the Jotunheim. I also figure the onboard DAC will be a "pinch hitter" in case something goes wrong with the bigger DAC's.  Looking forward to testing out the Jotunheim. I'm going to test it in all 3 systems, and see how it does. My second Schiit product now!! I'm becoming quite the Schiitster (or however it's spelled) here.


----------



## comzee

vhsownsbeta said:


> Odd. Does your listening range IEMs fall within the band of gain noise? Do you experience the same phenomena with your full sized headphones?


 
 Yea the iems would give me hearing damage at 2/3 volume, so the answer to the first question is no. 
 300ohm hd800 / 50ohm lcd3 do not experience the issue.


----------



## DKMTech

cthomas said:


> I'd suggest you actually give DSD a go before calling people dummies for wanting this feature. The difference between a 16/44.1 and a 24/192 digital file is remarkably indistinguishable yet just about every dac out there offers 24/192. There is a greater difference in SQ between 24 bit files and DSD. It sounds more analogue but obviously some can't tell any difference, hell, some people can't tell the difference between an iTunes MP3 and a flac file. This doesn't mean the difference isn't there. And with hdd space getting cheaper the file sizes aren't really of much concern. Before you pass judgement I suggest listening to something like Hotel California in DSD with a pair of proper headphones like the HD800.


  
 Response by *FlySweep*
  
 I've given DSD plenty of spin.. on plenty of nice gear.. it's just not worth. the. hassle, IME.  I can tell the difference between lossy & lossless rips.  I've owned the HD800 three times.. and heard it off plenty of great rigs.. so I know what it's capable of resolving.
  
 Also.. Schiit's made their very well-reasoned position on DSD very very clear.. why are DSD fanboys still asking?
  
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  
 DSD does sound better. But if there's not many titles available to listen to, what's the point? Ripping a CD to WAV or FLAC is easy and CD's are readily accessible for all of our favorite titles and artists. If the music industry made all of my favorite music available in DSD128 or DSD64, I'd get on board immediately. DSD is better but there's only a handful of titles available for me... That pretty much makes my decision easy. I do own a DSD DAC but I feed it PCM files and DSD only on a rare occasion.


----------



## mike138

Man this product looks awesome. I never really thought I'd be tempted to upgrade my Magni/Modi 2U stack. I wonder if the Jotunheim would be overkill for my He-400i.


----------



## Mudshark

Check this Schiit out:
  
 http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/first-listen-schiit-audios-new-jotunheim/
  
 FIRST LISTEN – SCHIIT AUDIO’S NEW JOTUNHEIM
 Schock & Awe at a Sensible Price


----------



## comzee

mudshark said:


> Check this Schiit out:
> 
> http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/first-listen-schiit-audios-new-jotunheim/


 
 Just finished reading that. I would generally agree with his impressions. It's a really great < $1k amp. Although, there's a greater breadth of upgrades than this review implies. There are many $1-2k amps that would destroy it. There are $2-4k amps from there that would destroy those in turn. 
  
 Right off the bat, from super early impressions, Lehmann BCL ($1250 msrp) is a step above it, amp only. My Taurus mkii ($1900 msrp) is a step above that.
 It hits the price point exceptionally, but there's no reason to over hype it. $400 is $400, and I would say it could compete with anything < $1k (apart from a few standouts). 
  
  
 EDIT:
 It's going to be interesting when other Schiit amp owners start showing up.
 As everyone knows, Schiit offers stepping stone amps at every price. (This is the only Schiit amp I've heard.)
  
  
 I can understand why they made it, they jump from Asgard2 $250 to Ragnarok $1700 for SS offerings.
  
 All their mid-tier is tube. If someone doesn't like tube, you're dunked when it comes to Schiit.
  
 This just fills a gap, and they decided to include a built in (optional) dac/phono, that would be my take on it.


----------



## Pete Schiller

comzee said:


> I can understand why they made it, they jump from Asgard2 $250 to Ragnarok $1700 for SS offerings.


 
 They did have the original SS Mjolnir, which I'm not sure what it originally sold for, but was selling for $499 on closeout. At $499, it took some time for Schiit to deplete their stock, but it was a bargain for people who already had balanced headphone cables. It would be interesting to hear Jason compare the Mjolnir with the Jotunheim. The Jotunheim clearly beats the Mjolnir in terms of flexibility, but I suspect it also closely matches or beats the Mjolnir in terms of performance and specs, at $100 less than the Mjolnir closeout price. The Jotunheim sounds like a darn good value. I have no need for one at the moment. I'm waiting for stuff to drive my Salk speakers that I have on order.


----------



## KG Jag

pete schiller said:


> comzee said:
> 
> 
> > I can understand why they made it, they jump from Asgard2 $250 to Ragnarok $1700 for SS offerings.
> ...


 
  
 If memory serves, the Mjolnir 2 replaced the 1 at the same price point ($849)--consistent with their practice with regard to replacement of other 1's with 2's.


----------



## BLacklWf

comzee said:


> Just finished reading that. I would generally agree with his impressions. It's a really great < $1k amp. Although, there's a greater breadth of upgrades than this review implies. There are many $1-2k amps that would destroy it. There are $2-4k amps from there that would destroy those in turn.
> 
> Right off the bat, from super early impressions, Lehmann BCL ($1250 msrp) is a step above it, amp only. My Taurus mkii ($1900 msrp) is a step above that.
> It hits the price point exceptionally, but there's no reason to over hype it. $400 is $400, and I would say it could compete with anything < $1k (apart from a few standouts).
> ...


 
 How's the DAC part of it?  I would very appreciate if you can share some insight when you get a chance.


----------



## bclark8923

Hm debating selling my Bifrost 4490 and getting the DAC/Amp version or stacking just the Amp version. Thoughts from anyone who's listened?


----------



## comzee

blacklwf said:


> How's the DAC part of it?  I would very appreciate if you can share some insight when you get a chance.


 
 It's probably really close to the Modi 2 Uber (it uses the same akm4490 chip). From my brief listening experience, I didn't not like it.
 I don't really want to give impressions of the dac, because I don't own dacs of similar performance to compare. 
  
 People don't want to hear how my Yggdrasil and Master 7 crush it, that's just a given.
  
 EDIT: I'll add one thing, if you want an amp/dac combo solution, and you don't already have a standalone dac, the akm4490 module will not disappoint.
 It meshes well with the performance of the amp. If I was someone like @bclark8923 I would get the amp only version, at $399.
  
 I see three reasons to get the dac module.
 #1 You don't own a standalone dac.
 #2 You want a smaller footprint on your desk.
 #3 Secondary audio chain. 
  
 For me it's #3. 
 I bought it for work/travel, I got the dac module for convenience.
 This is the type of product you could take on road trips using an inverter, hifi on the road!
 Easily fits in any carry on luggage. Compact for work desks. Great range (10ohm IEM to 300ohm hd800 and beyond) 
  
 This is really an all-in-one "good enough" hifi product for people that want to buy something, and just enjoy music.
 If you have "upgraditis" this is the type of product that will quickly shuffle its way into the closet.


----------



## BLacklWf

comzee said:


> It's probably really close to the Modi 2 Uber (it uses the same akm4490 chip). From my brief listening experience, I didn't not like it.
> I don't really want to give impressions of the dac, because I don't own dacs of similar performance to compare.
> 
> People don't want to hear how my Yggdrasil and Master 7 crush it, that's just a given.
> ...


 
 Thank you very much for your detailed and honest feedback!!  Looks like I will be more of Modi MB + Magni Uber type of person because I always have an upgraditis.


----------



## acguitar84

comzee said:


> It's probably really close to the Modi 2 Uber (it uses the same akm4490 chip). From my brief listening experience, I didn't not like it.
> I don't really want to give impressions of the dac, because I don't own dacs of similar performance to compare.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 For me I had a reason 4, for my desktop rigs, I wanted the DAC as a backup, just in case my main DAC needed repair or quit working or what not. It's nice to know there's a backup. As far as it ending up in the closet, I think for me, it won't, because it will be a balanced volume control for my desktop rigs. I love how I could plug a gumby or a yggy into it and balanced. Gosh, I bet that would sound really good! As far as a headphone amp, I think for my main headphone rig, I'll eventually look into a ragnarok, or an amp in that range. But for my desktops I really think this little unit will get a lot of use. I would imagine as time goes by, they'll figure out how to stuff a multibit DAC into it as well, but again, that's not why I'm buying it. The DAC will only be an "insurance policy" for me. Keep things up and running in case of disaster happening to the main DAC, whether it ends up being gumby, yggy or some other kind of DAC. Pretty cool little unit really. The thing that sold me on it, is that it's balanced. It's also cool single ended equipment can be plugged into it too of course.


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

Just to be clear about Schiit's SS offerings, the only Schiit tube amp that cannot be used as SS via their LISST tubes is the Valhalla 2. The Vali 2, Lyr 2, and Mjolnir 2 can all run as fully solid state amps using LISST (although in the case of the Vali 2 Schiit recommends buying a Magni 2U because it's cheaper and more powerful as an SS amp).


----------



## painted klown

Well, I for one am very interested in the Jot.
  
 For starters, the fact that it can be used fully balanced or single ended, in any configuration you may have (balanced DAC and SE 'phones or vice versa). Secondly, it is being reported to work well with sensitive IEMs, Senn HD-800, and the HE-6! In that light, I am sure it will work well with pretty much anything in between as well. That's pretty remarkable in my book.
  
 The HD-800 and HE-6 are known to be 'phones that almost require a dedicated setup for each of them. Sure, there may be better options for each of these applications, but then you would probably need 3 separate amps to do so. When you are on a serious budget (as I am), this product is essentially what I have been dreaming of since discovering this forum!
  
 I do not have any balanced 'phones currently, but I believe the Senn HD-650 can be made balanced fairly easily. (Maybe just a cable swap?)
 I would love to give balanced headphones a go. A versatile amp like this makes upgrading headphones a better experience IMO, as you have now opened yourself up to be able to buy ANYTHING you want (less Stax and the like). 
  
 Having not heard the Jot, I would assume (maybe incorrectly) that the built in DAC would be the limiting factor. I will be very interested to see the reports of this amp with the likes of Chord Mojo & Dave, Schiits own multi-bit DACs, Audio G-D Master 11 (although I have read the M11 has an amazing headphone amp as well as DAC section), and other well regarded DACs.
  
 As of right now, I do plan to purchase a Jot when the funds are available. Mine would be an amp only purchase, as I already have a MC/MM phono pre in my Emotiva XSP-1, and a balanced delta sigma DAC with my Emotiva DC-1.
  
 But first, I plan to get a Schiit multi-bit DAC to use with my current Vali 2 amp! Most likely just a Mimby to begin with, but I can always go up from there if the multi-bit design is my thing.
  
 Lastly, the fact that this amp is an all new amplifier topology that reportedly measures better than any of Schiits other amps for $400...well that's nearly a "no brainer" for someone in my position.


----------



## BarDash

dglow said:


> That's a perfectly fine question.
> 
> DSD material can play back on a non-DSD DAC given the right playback software. Apps like JRiver and Audirvana include support for converting from DSD to 24-bit 88.2KHz PCM. The piece of software which makes this work is called a sample rate converter or 'SRC'; iZotope is the brand name for a well-regarded SRC.
> 
> So: you set up your software, choose a DSD track to play, and the DAC receives 24/88 audio.


 
 Great detailed explanation and thank you!


----------



## Verde

painted klown said:


> Well, I for one am very interested in the Jot.
> 
> For starters, the fact that it can be used fully balanced or single ended, in any configuration you may have (balanced DAC and SE 'phones or vice versa). Secondly, it is being reported to work well with sensitive IEMs, Senn HD-800, and the HE-6! In that light, I am sure it will work well with pretty much anything in between as well. That's pretty remarkable in my book.
> 
> ...


 
 This is almost exactly where I am at with this amp. I'm getting the Modi Multi-bit DAC first, and then this if  a simple cable swap works for my HE-500 cans (similar to your 600s). It just seems like a really great deal for that kind of  U.S. made power.


----------



## pdferguson

shogster said:


> I am really thinking about selling my Parasound Zdac V2,and return the Magni 2U i just ordered for the Jotunheim.I really wanted an all-in-one unit use my LSR305s and the Purplehearts,but ultimately decided on a separate units.And having a great Dac,a balanced pre outs and a very good amp in one is definetly tempting.I will have to see if i like the sound of the Magni fed from the Parasound first though.And i am wondering also,if the 15 day return policy applies if i bought my Schiit from schiit-europe?


 

 Please let me know if you have a chance to compare the Zdac v.2 and the Jotunheim. I see the two as pretty comparable, and aimed (roughly) at the same market. I have a Zdac v.2 and am pretty happy with it, but I am curious whether the Jotunheim is a worthwhile upgrade, mostly to try the balanced output with my HD-650s. Potentially, the Jotunheim DAC and amp could both outperform the Parasound (it sounds like the amp clearly does).
  
 I do wish the Jotunheim muted the pre-amp outputs when headphones are plugged in; I think that's a poor design decision since the most common use case (by far) would be to mute.
  
 The Zdac has a back panel switch for fixed/variable pre-amp output, again, seems like a no-brainer. Also, I wish the Jotunheim DAC supported optical Toslink since I prefer the electrical isolation it provides--I once blew up a MacBook mother board due to an electrical malfunction involving a USB DAC--but USB only isn't a deal breaker for me.


----------



## scottcocoabeach

verde said:


> This is almost exactly where I am at with this amp. I'm getting the Modi Multi-bit DAC first, and then this if  a simple cable swap works for my HE-500 cans (similar to your 600s). It just seems like a really great deal for that kind of  U.S. made power.




A cable swap is all that is needed - I run my HE-500s, HD800s, and others using balanced cables. The same should be true for the Senn HD600/650s. 

My Jot should be here Friday. I will probably hook it up to my Gumby first and then eventually move it for use at one of my work stations. I purchased the DAC module more out of curiosity than anything. I will more than likely use an external DAC with it at most times.


----------



## Letmebefrank

Should I plug in the headphone XLR and then turn it on, or turn it on then plug in the headphone XLR? Also I read that the volume knob clicks it in a sort of standby at the lowest volume? Is that true?


----------



## catspaw

Schiit, I got myself a Bimby not long ago, and now it turns out I could get a Balanced DAC/AMP for 400 bucks.


----------



## xuan87

catspaw said:


> Schiit, I got myself a Bimby not long ago, and now it turns out I could get a Balanced DAC/AMP for 400 bucks.


 
  
 Well, with the DAC module, it's actually $499, so it's $100 more than the Bifrost, while the Bimby runs $599. To many, they would rather pay for the Bimby as it's multibit. The case for buying a normal Bifrost though, is less clear.


letmebefrank said:


> Should I plug in the headphone XLR and then turn it on, or turn it on then plug in the headphone XLR? Also I read that the volume knob clicks it in a sort of standby at the lowest volume? Is that true?


 
  
 It's good practice to plug in your headphones AFTER you've switched on your amp.


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

catspaw said:


> Schiit, I got myself a Bimby not long ago, and now it turns out I could get a Balanced DAC/AMP for 400 bucks.




You can't get a balanced multibit DAC for $400 though. Also as mentioned the Jotunheim with DAC isn't $400 either.


----------



## MWSVette

catspaw said:


> Schiit, I got myself a Bimby not long ago, and now it turns out I could get a Balanced DAC/AMP for 400 bucks.


 
 I also have a Bimby. I bought the Jotunheim w/o DAC and will use the Bimby as my multibit DAC and my Emotiva DC-1 as my balanced D/S DAC.
  
 Had been looking at balanced amps and this is easily the best deal.  I looked at the Violectric 181, LC, Senn HDVA600 and Bryston BHA.  They are 2 or 3 times the price of the Joti.
  
 I cannot wait til Friday...


----------



## catspaw

Well, I was considering the jotunheim just because its balanced but honestly Im happy with the bimbi/asgard so probably no reason to change it.


----------



## aetheriality

As a owner of both the Jotunheim and the Geek Out V2+, the GOV2+ sounded better and clearer on both the SE and balanced outputs, powering the HD800.


----------



## FLTWS

A bit OT but after reading the poop sheet on Jotunheim regarding:
  
 ...
 "Schiit’s new inherently-balanced, all-discrete Pivot Point current-feedback topology, which has been under development for over 3 years. Pivot Point provides for both balanced and single-ended inputs and outputs—without the need for phase splitters at the input or summers at the output." 

  

 It made me wonder if this type of circuit could be used in a Valhalla 2 to provide a taste of that triode OTL sound with balanced in and out?


----------



## tonykaz

Mr.Comzee and "Upgraditis" ,
  
   Upgradeitis is what 99.9% of this site is all about, doncha think?
  
  There is a 4th. reason for buying and owning this Jot. :  A person may own or wish to own one of those 'early' planer headphones designed to work with a Speaker Amp.  The Jot. has enough power to drive all of em except maybe the Hifiman HE-6 which kinda needs 20Watts or more.
  
 I travel extensively, you are the only person traveling with a desk-top rig I've heard of. ( except our Jude who seems to travel with a Honda Fit filled with gear or Air travels with a Chord Hugo ). A tiny JDS Labs, Mojo or modern Smart Phone seem more likely choices.  Modern designed headphones need only a few milliwatts.  
  
 The Jot. seems like a solution to a problem that hasn't existed for some time, even Stoddard says it's idea dates from way-back in time.  Dusty boxes of Pots, indeed, should've wrote-off the darn things at the end of year! 
  
 Tony in Michigan


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

aetheriality said:


> As a owner of both the Jotunheim and the Geek Out V2+, the GOV2+ sounded better and clearer on both the SE and balanced outputs, powering the HD800.




Are you saying the GOV2+ sounds better than the Jotunheim as an amp, or that the GO used as a source for the Jotunheim sounds better than the internal DAC?

I've got my GO2a upgrade coming tomorrow and will be using it as a source. I could believe it sounds better than the internal DAC on the Joti, but have a very hard time believing it sounds better as an amp (going off my audio memory of my unit before I sent it in for the upgrade).


----------



## bluesw

I have to say that the Jotunheim seem to be a perfect solution for my problem. A reasonably priced full balanced headphone amp with a small footprint (my desk is small) and USB input that I can plug in to my PC, power my LCD-2 on balaced and use IEMs without a problem. AND I can still buy a multi-bit DAC and plug it into the Jot. once moved into a larger room. 100 bucks may go out the window, but than again that ain't a big deal.
  
 The only problem I have, is that I'm in a strange country that has 100VAC off the wall; aka Japan. Could you guys at Schiit do a 100V input Jot. for us in Nintendo land ?  Never mind, 100VAC is so niche that you'd probably rather do DSD first   Guess that means I'd have to get a step-up trans if I get the Jot. which would hit me an additional 50 bucks. But I still think it would be great value.


----------



## XERO1

bluesw said:


>


 
  
 Wow.  Only 8 posts in 10 years!   I think that may be a record!
  
 The Jot sure must be special to warrant such a rare post from you!


----------



## MWSVette

xero1 said:


> Wow.  Only 8 posts in 10 years!   I think that may be a record!
> 
> The Jot sure must be special to warrant such a rare post from you!


 
 +1   I noticed that too...


----------



## Alex Martin

3ggerhappy said:


> Hi Alex, Can you please enlighten us with the Balanced Dac implementation if it will be able to utilize the chip features above(especially DSD)? Very curious to know.
> 
> Thank you!


 

 There is no DSD functionality on the Jotunheim DAC board.  There will be no DSD functionality added to any Schiit product for the foreseeable future.  Jason and Mike have said more times than I can count that we won't be pursuing DSD.  Why would we pursue a dying standard when Mike, Jason, and Dave can utilize their time building better DACs and amps that take advantage of their years of collective experience.  If Sony truly supported DSD, they would have spent the millions to open their vaults and convert a massive music catalog.  Why would we support this standard when the company that created the standard won't even support it?


----------



## phren0logy

> Jason and Mike have said more times than I can count that we won't be pursuing DSD.


 
  
 In fairness, not everybody keeps up with every post from you guys. The reasoning for not supporting DSD seems totally reasonable, but it also seems like this guy asked a reasonable question.


----------



## ToddRaymond

I'm weird, I'm a PCM guy.
  
 So I suppose it's time to start an official Jotunheim impressions thread.  (Or just keep this one rolling?)  I imagine the first wave of FedEx deliveries should begin showing up today.


----------



## madwolfa

phren0logy said:


> In fairness, not everybody keeps up with every post from you guys. The reasoning for not supporting DSD seems totally reasonable, but it also seems like this guy asked a reasonable question.


 
  
 Maybe put it into a website FAQ.


----------



## Letmebefrank

Listening to my Jotunheim right now, fed by a Modi Multibit. Re-terminated a stock HD650 cable with 4 pin XLR. Initial impressions are that there is allot more control than with my vali 2, everything has more impact. Definitely has better detail presentation than the vali 2, probably due to the nature of solid state vs tube hybrid. across the board everything has more meat to it. Its like going from aftermarket 6x9s on a stock radio to a 100wpc RMS 4 channel amp.


----------



## acguitar84

letmebefrank said:


> Listening to my Jotunheim right now, fed by a Modi Multibit. Re-terminated a stock HD650 cable with 4 pin XLR. Initial impressions are that there is allot more control than with my vali 2, everything has more impact. Definitely has better detail presentation than the vali 2, probably due to the nature of solid state vs tube hybrid. across the board everything has more meat to it. Its like going from aftermarket 6x9s on a stock radio to a 100wpc RMS 4 channel amp.


 
 That sounds really good. My Jotunheim should be here Friday, just in time for the 3 day weekend! Did you order the DAC with your Jotunheim? If so, how does it compare to mimby? I also have a mimby, and I ordered the internal DAC in the Jotunheim as well, I figured for 100 bucks, I have an "insurance policy" DAC I can use in a pinch if needed. I wonder how the two DAC's compare, if there is that much of a difference? This weekend I plan on comparing the Jotunheim to my WA7 Fireflies (with solid state power supply on my main headphone rig), as well as listening to Jotunheim on my main speaker system. Also, I'll compare the mimby to the internal DAC on the Jotunheim too. Should be a really fun weekend!


----------



## Letmebefrank

acguitar84 said:


> That sounds really good. My Jotunheim should be here Friday, just in time for the 3 day weekend! Did you order the DAC with your Jotunheim? If so, how does it compare to mimby? I also have a mimby, and I ordered the internal DAC in the Jotunheim as well, I figured for 100 bucks, I have an "insurance policy" DAC I can use in a pinch if needed. I wonder how the two DAC's compare, if there is that much of a difference? This weekend I plan on comparing the Jotunheim to my WA7 Fireflies (with solid state power supply on my main headphone rig), as well as listening to Jotunheim on my main speaker system. Also, I'll compare the mimby to the internal DAC on the Jotunheim too. Should be a really fun weekend!


 
  
 I did not order the internal DAC, I'm holding off to see what they come out with for future expansion cards. I have a Modi 2 Uber in the closet that I can always use if I need a backup, and a CEntrance dacport slim as the amp/dac backup-backup.
  
 P.S. I would like to reiterate the amount of impact I'm getting in high gain balanced mode. Holy Schiit, this amp sounds so good. Also the resolution is improved and I can really hear (even more so than before) the benefits of the Modi Multibit. Plus, no more phone interference like with the Vali 2.


----------



## acguitar84

Dang, that makes me wonder how the WA7 fireflies will compete. That should prove interesting to say the least!


----------



## Letmebefrank

The little LEDs inside are a nice touch. Looks good.


----------



## bluesw

xero1 said:


> Wow.  Only 8 posts in 10 years!   I think that may be a record!
> 
> The Jot sure must be special to warrant such a rare post from you!


 
 Yes the Jot. sure is! 
  
 Actually, after my HDD failed I had completely forgotten this screen name, password, AND my password for the registered mail add. and simply gave up on my account long ago. But after all these year, recently I was able to retrieve my password memo for my mail during a move to a different city and presto! My account's back! Was pretty surprised that the account was still alive, too.


----------



## acguitar84

bluesw said:


> Yes the Jot. sure is!
> 
> Actually, after my HDD failed I had completely forgotten this screen name, password, AND my password for the registered mail add. and simply gave up on my account long ago. But after all these year, recently I was able to retrieve my password memo for my mail during a move to a different city and presto! My account's back! Was pretty surprised that the account was still alive, too.


 
 That is pretty crazy. I saw you posted back in 2006, then you were gone until now. 10 years. Gosh! Made me kinda yearn for the old days of the mid and late 2000's, but then again, today they are making better gear than ever! Can't wait until my Jotunheim gets here Friday!


----------



## RickB

letmebefrank said:


> The little LEDs inside are a nice touch. Looks good.


 
 If those are used like their other amps, they are used for biasing and not cosmetic. Though I'm sure they look cool.


----------



## XERO1

I'm so impressed by the industrial design of the Jot.
 I think Jason really knocked it outta the park with his new baby!


----------



## MisterMoJo

xero1 said:


> I'm so impressed by the industrial design of the Jot.
> I think Jason really knocked it outta the park with his new baby!


 
 are you being serious?  I can't tell.  It looks like all the other Schiity amps to me....


----------



## jimmers

> Originally Posted by *comzee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> ... Right off the bat, from super early impressions, Lehmann BCL ($1250 msrp) is a step above it, amp only.....


 
 I was considering a Jot, but if that is true - no way.


----------



## MisterMoJo

bluesw said:


> Yes the Jot. sure is!
> 
> Actually, after my HDD failed I had completely forgotten this screen name, password, AND my password for the registered mail add. and simply gave up on my account long ago. But after all these year, recently I was able to retrieve my password memo for my mail during a move to a different city and presto! My account's back! Was pretty surprised that the account was still alive, too.


 
 welcome back.


----------



## tonykaz

Mr. Alex,
  
 DSD isn't a dying "Standard",
  
 It was never a "Standard"! 
  
 Tony in Michigan


----------



## comzee

jimmers said:


> I was considering a Jot, but if that is true - no way.


 
 Some might like the Jot better, it's more forward.
 Although, if you think the BCL is bad in general, I wouldn't be taking my advice either way.


----------



## bclark8923

Anyone have impressions of the DAC vs a Bifrost 4490? The Jot's is balanced and passively filtered vs unbalanced and op amp for the bifrost, but what difference does that make both from an engineering perspective and a sound quality perspective?


----------



## aetheriality

I own both the Jotunheim and the GOV2+. My Jotunheim is the DAC/Amp version. I am saying that while both being DACAmps, GOV2+ > Jotunheim. GOV2+ would be rated 11/10 while Jotunheim 8/10. Despite being cheaper and smaller, I realized my GOV2+ is too good.


----------



## lenroot77

aetheriality said:


> I own both the Jotunheim and the GOV2+. My Jotunheim is the DAC/Amp version. I am saying that while both being DACAmps, GOV2+ > Jotunheim. GOV2+ would be rated 11/10 while Jotunheim 8/10. Despite being cheaper and smaller, I realized my GOV2+ is too good.




Care to share what is better about it?


----------



## MattTCG

lenroot77 said:


> Care to share what is better about it?


 
  
 Well, it's an 11/10 so we should all sell our DACS and just go buy one right?


----------



## powermatic

> Well, it's an 11/10 so we should all sell out DACS and just go buy one right?


 
  
 Yep. It's apparently 10% better than any dac made, ever. Ever-ever. And that's "better" not in any mundane way that can be "described" in "words", but it's a mysterious, magical "better" that can only be realized on an ethereal plane, far above pathetic and meager 10/10 dacs.
  
 That's one hell of a dac!


----------



## rwelles

matttcg said:


> Well, it's an 11/10 so we should all sell out DACS and just go buy one right?


 

 Yes, it's the "Spinal Tap" of DACs.


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933




----------



## gr8soundz

letmebefrank said:


> The little LEDs inside are a nice touch. Looks good.


 
  
 Too bad they couldn't fit dual tubes right below those 'vent' holes.
  
 Add those and a switch to choose between solid-state/hybrid and suddenly all our desktops would have zero clutter.


----------



## theveterans

How hot does Jotunheim get compared to Asgard and Lyr 2?


----------



## Oklahoma

theveterans said:


> How hot does Jotunheim get compared to Asgard and Lyr 2?




After an hour running for me it was warm to the touch. My yggy runs warmer. I will have more time this weekend to go through it more. 

It has a fair amount of power. I listened to my hd800's on low gain at the same point I do with lyr2 on high gain.


----------



## dglow

Any Ragnarok owners out there planning to order or otherwise spend time with a Jot? Would love to hear how the two compare.


----------



## cthomas

If I use an external DAC that has balanced output with the jot should I use a balanced cable feeding into the jot? Or would it be the same as using the line-out from DAC to amp?


----------



## Letmebefrank

theveterans said:


> How hot does Jotunheim get compared to Asgard and Lyr 2?




It runs about the same temp as my modi multibit. It's been on for about 9 hours now.


----------



## dglow

cthomas said:


> If I use an external DAC that has balanced output with the jot should I use a balanced cable feeding into the jot? Or would it be the same as using the line-out from DAC to amp?


 

 A single-ended 'line out' will not sound the same as balanced. If balanced is available, use it.


----------



## cthomas

dglow said:


> A single-ended 'line out' will not sound the same as balanced. If balanced is available, use it.




Thanks for that. My dac uses dual 3.5mm mono, I'm guessing this would be the right cable...


----------



## dglow

No. You'll need 3-pin male XLR jacks to go into the Jotty.
  

  
 Out of curiosity, what DAC are you using?


----------



## Allanmarcus

cthomas said:


> If I use an external DAC that has balanced output with the jot should I use a balanced cable feeding into the jot? Or would it be the same as using the line-out from DAC to amp?


 

 try each and see if you can hear a difference. Let us know.


----------



## cthomas

dglow said:


> No. You'll need 3-pin male XLR jacks to go into the Jotty.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Ah ok, thanks for the clarification!


----------



## cthomas

allanmarcus said:


> try each and see if you can hear a difference. Let us know.




Might be a while, just planning ahead at the moment.


----------



## nerone

letmebefrank said:


> Listening to my Jotunheim right now, fed by a Modi Multibit. Re-terminated a stock HD650 cable with 4 pin XLR. Initial impressions are that there is allot more control than with my vali 2, everything has more impact. Definitely has better detail presentation than the vali 2, probably due to the nature of solid state vs tube hybrid. across the board everything has more meat to it. Its like going from aftermarket 6x9s on a stock radio to a 100wpc RMS 4 channel amp.




I'd love to hear more from this comparison. I'm currently using the Vali 2 and I'm considering to upgrade to the Jotunheim, but first I'd lite to confirm if the Jotunheim is not a lot brighter than the Vali 2. I love the amount of tube sound on the Vali 2 and wouldn't want to loose all of it.


----------



## Letmebefrank

nerone said:


> I'd love to hear more from this comparison. I'm currently using the Vali 2 and I'm considering to upgrade to the Jotunheim, but first I'd lite to confirm if the Jotunheim is not a lot brighter than the Vali 2. I love the amount of tube sound on the Vali 2 and wouldn't want to loose all of it.


 
 The main difference to me is the power. The Jot has so much more power, it has much better control of the transducer. Everything has much more impact and texture to it. I'm no audio-reviewer so I dont know the right terms but thats what it sounds like to me. 
  
 I would say the Jot and the Vali 2's tone arent hugely different, probably due to the Vali 2 being a hybrid. The Jot doesnt seem bright to me, and I am sensitive to brightness. Its a little less warm but the impact of the sound more than makes up for the slight loss of emphasized lows/mids with the Vali 2.
  
 Also my comparisons are Jots Balanced high gain vs Vali 2s SE high gain (JJE88CC GP).


----------



## xuan87

letmebefrank said:


> It runs about the same temp as my modi multibit. It's been on for about 9 hours now.




This is surprising to me. I've read many impressions that said the Jot is one of the least warm Schiit amps they've encountered, warm to the touch rather than hot. I have a Modi Multibit and that thing runs HOT! I cannot imagine any gear getting hotter than that and still have a long life.


----------



## cskippy

xuan87 said:


> This is surprising to me. I've read many impressions that said the Jot is one of the least warm Schiit amps they've encountered, warm to the touch rather than hot. I have a Modi Multibit and that thing runs HOT! I cannot imagine any gear getting hotter than that and still have a long life.


 
 It's not a big deal.  It's hotter than most gear because the chassis is used as a heat sink.


----------



## Letmebefrank

xuan87 said:


> This is surprising to me. I've read many impressions that said the Jot is one of the least warm Schiit amps they've encountered, warm to the touch rather than hot. I have a Modi Multibit and that thing runs HOT! I cannot imagine any gear getting hotter than that and still have a long life.


 


cskippy said:


> It's not a big deal.  It's hotter than most gear because the chassis is used as a heat sink.


 
  
 My Modi Multibit doesn't get hot. Its been on for several weeks, and it doesn't get more than warm to the touch.


----------



## theveterans

Surprised to see that Mimby runs hot! My Bimby is stone cold, but my Asgard 2 is very hot at the side vents that it takes 3 - 5 seconds before I lift my palm. Maybe Jot runs at around 110 - 120 degrees while Asgard 2 runs at 150 degrees or more.


----------



## XERO1

dglow said:


> A single-ended 'line out' will not sound the same as balanced. If balanced is available, use it.


 
  
 With the Jot's unique topology, I would think that the best sounding input would correspond to the whichever output you are using.
  
 So if you are using the SE output, the SE input will sound the best, and visa versa.  But I'm not 100% certain about this.
  
 Maybe Jason can comment on this.


----------



## Redcarmoose

I really like this idea from Schiit. In daily use I end up running an Asgard to get a better headphone amp-stage while using my DACMagic Plus as a DAC. That said, the Jotunheim seems to win on so many levels as it has balanced out ( for powered speakers) as well as a powerful amp section. Testing the DAC Magic and Asgard side by side, the Asgard just slightly wins out with better bass and detail than the DACMagic Plus headphone out. Side by side the Asgard and Jotunheim are fairly close to the same in single ended mode. I'm excited to find out how much more powerful the Jotunheim will sound in balanced mode? Just the fact that people are writing that the Jotunheim is a forward and dynamic sounding amp character is thrilling.
  
 The Jotunheim does not support BT but I see them maybe making a card for that in the future. I knew when this thread started that we were going to read about so many personal DAC quality reviews. To tell you the truth, having a couple different sounding DACs is always a win in my eyes. What happens is you think you like one DAC, but then a different time and different headphones will change your opinion on that same DAC. Having different DACs is fun as there seems to never be just one consistent personal sound quality opinion? I could care less about the DAC quality reviews here. I'm just going to order one and run with it.


----------



## cthomas

dglow said:


> Out of curiosity, what DAC are you using?




Sorry missed that earlier. Sony PHA-3.


----------



## Cet1

Nobody has mentioned what Class amp this is -  A?  A/B? etc - anyone know?


----------



## Hutnicks

cet1 said:


> Nobody has mentioned what Class amp this is -  A?  A/B? etc - anyone know?


 

 Completely new topology. I don't know if it conforms to a given Class.


----------



## comzee

hutnicks said:


> Completely new topology. I don't know if it conforms to a given Class.


 
 Class = how much feedback (if that makes it easier to understand for some). 
  
 Class A = Zero feedback, 100% of the original input signal is used as the output signal. 
  
 Anything lower just means a specific percentage of the original input signal is used as the output signal.
 Without somebody using a device to measure feedback (is that possible?) I guess the only thing we can say for sure is it is not class A.


----------



## jfoxvol

http://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/amplifier-classes


----------



## sheldaze

dglow said:


> Any Ragnarok owners out there planning to order or otherwise spend time with a Jot? Would love to hear how the two compare.


 
 What are you looking to drive? I only drive planars (and speakers) from the Ragnarok. I was less enthusiastic for the Rag sound with dynamic headphones such as Sennheiser HD650 or HD800S. This was a very personal thing, and difficult to explain - I found many other amplifiers, including those in the Schiit lineup, which I did enjoy quite a lot with Sennheiser headphones. My hope is the Jot works well with a diverse set of headphones.
  
 With that caveat, I could certainly compare something similar to your headphone, per my set of headphones, Ragnarok against Jotunheim, once Jotunheim arrives.


----------



## madwolfa

comzee said:


> Class = how much feedback (if that makes it easier to understand for some).
> 
> Class A = Zero feedback, 100% of the original input signal is used as the output signal.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Amplifier operation class has nothing to do with feedback. Class A amplifier may as well have a ton of feedback, depending on the implementation.


----------



## dglow

sheldaze said:


> dglow said:
> 
> 
> > Any Ragnarok owners out there planning to order or otherwise spend time with a Jot? Would love to hear how the two compare.
> ...


 
  
 I use the HE-1000 and a pair of MG-12s with my Ragnarok. For comparison with the Jot I would only attempt to drive the headphones...


----------



## sheldaze

dglow said:


> I use the HE-1000 and a pair of MG-12s with my Ragnarok. For comparison with the Jot I would only attempt to drive the headphones...


 
 Cool!
  
 HE-1000 is my _goto _headphone! I'll let you know how Rag and Jot compare.


----------



## dglow

Excellent – thank you very much.


----------



## comzee

madwolfa said:


> Amplifier operation class has nothing to do with feedback. Class A amplifier may as well have a ton of feedback, depending on the implementation.


 
 You're right, I was mistaken. I should have just said "For Class A, 100% of the input signal is used"
The lower classes determine what percentage of the original input signal is used.


----------



## madwolfa

comzee said:


> You're right, I was mistaken. I should have just said "For Class A, 100% of the input signal is used"
> The lower classes determine what percentage of the original input signal is used.


 
  
 That's not correct either. Here's some good read on the basics:
  
 http://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/amplifier-classes


----------



## comzee

madwolfa said:


> That's not correct either. Here's some good read on the basics:
> 
> http://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/amplifier-classes


 
 I get my understanding from this video:
  
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryCr4Y7ypLA&t=10m25s
  
 And I took the direct quote from wiki here.
  
 Are we talking semantics here, or are these sources not correct?


----------



## madwolfa

comzee said:


> I get my understanding from this video:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryCr4Y7ypLA&t=10m25s
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you're no longer implying the relation of this to feedback, then it's just semantics, I guess.


----------



## erics75

my work rig is a lyr 2/bifrost 4490 powering the alpha prime. I'm wondering if getting the jot+dac and going balanced cables would sound better? I'd love to have only one box on my desk, but sound quality is more important.


----------



## JLoud

I was wondering the same thing.  I use Bifrost 4490 and Asgard 2.  My Jotunheim arrives Friday.  Going to compare it using my Hifiman he-560 balanced and single ended.


----------



## ucanuup

just received mine, can anyone tell me how to remove the chasis? It is less straightforward now that they hide the screws on top.


erics75 said:


> my work rig is a lyr 2/bifrost 4490 powering the alpha prime. I'm wondering if getting the jot+dac and going balanced cables would sound better? I'd love to have only one box on my desk, but sound quality is more important.


 
 It might, but definitely not worth the money IMO.


----------



## erics75

ucanuup said:


> just received mine, can anyone tell me how to remove the chasis? It is less straightforward now that they hide the screws on top.
> It might, but definitely not worth the money IMO.


 

 why don't you feel it's worth the money?


----------



## ucanuup

erics75 said:


> why don't you feel it's worth the money?



I always considered effects of switching to balanced marginal. Tried both jacks of jotunheim with my hd800 and the difference is indeed small. I do not have a lyr2 or bifrost so a direct comparison cannot be made, but since they are on the same level you are basically spending $600 on a mere balanced jack. Is that worth the money? To some maybe, howerver I would rather get another good headphone. Not necessarily an upgrade either, but getting to experience another headphone is still better.


----------



## madwolfa

If you don't like it, why don't you return it? Why in the world would you want to get into it instead, losing the warranty?


----------



## erics75

ucanuup said:


> I always considered effects of switching to balanced marginal. Tried both jacks of jotunheim with my hd800 and the difference is indeed small. I do not have a lyr2 or bifrost so a direct comparison cannot be made, but since they are on the same level you are basically spending $600 on a mere balanced jack. Is that worth the money? To some maybe, howerver I would rather get another good headphone. Not necessarily an upgrade either, but getting to experience another headphone is still better.


 
  
 that's one thing I was afraid of, not hearing a worthwhile difference moving to a balanced setup. I've only briefly listed to a few fully balanced systems at meets, but wasn't able to use my own headphones/sources, so I had no reference point to compare to. the folks who let me use their systems had similar takes as you, that gains from going from SE to balanced are modest, especially when both systems are of similar cost/caliber. thanks for the response.


----------



## FLTWS

erics75 said:


> that's one thing I was afraid of, not hearing a worthwhile difference moving to a balanced setup. I've only briefly listed to a few fully balanced systems at meets, but wasn't able to use my own headphones/sources, so I had no reference point to compare to. the folks who let me use their systems had similar takes as you, that gains from going from SE to balanced are modest, especially when both systems are of similar cost/caliber. thanks for the response.


 
  
 It won't be a night and day difference, it's one of subtlety, but that's what I'm into this hobby for. But, as fjirabon says, a properly executed  SE should sound the same. Aside from that I find that the 4 pin connector feels more substantial, it's a tactile thing. Whether or not it locks better and is less likely to pop out if I snag the cord somehow... I want to try not finding out.
  
 Of course then it becomes a question of a quarter inch connector flying cross the room, or, having the headphone amp flying across the room thanks to the extra grip the 4 pin connector has, when I try moving about with the phones on.
  
 Hmmm!


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

erics75 said:


> my work rig is a lyr 2/bifrost 4490 powering the alpha prime. I'm wondering if getting the jot+dac and going balanced cables would sound better? I'd love to have only one box on my desk, but sound quality is more important.


 

 You'd hear a bigger difference staying SE but upgrading the Bifrost to multibit.


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

It's all going to depend on the topology, the implementation, and the rest of the chain. On the Jotunheim, due to the topology, the difference is subtle. On the Liquid Carbon the difference is much more pronounced.


----------



## lenroot77

merrick said:


> It's all going to depend on the topology, the implementation, and the rest of the chain. On the Jotunheim, due to the topology, the difference is subtle. On the Liquid Carbon the difference is much more pronounced.




Yes yes yes I know I know I know it been explained over and over and over and over.... And over here at headfi.


----------



## KnightSirius

Was so excited to see this release!
 I'm so torn now with this new product out. It's great for it's price point and now it's thrown me off as to what Schiit to get!
 I was planning to get a Mjolnir 2 and a Gungir. Mjolnir first and when I have money again finish it off with the Gungir but now with this available I'm considering different options
  
 Really want balanced outputs for my studio monitors though, cause I'm pretty sure PRE OUT is not the same as BAL OUT.


----------



## acguitar84

knightsirius said:


> Really want balanced outputs for my studio monitors though, cause I'm pretty sure PRE OUT is not the same as BAL OUT.


 
 This is what the manual says:
  
 "6. Balanced Preamp Output. Connect to powered monitors or a speaker amp."
  
 I'm going to use mine like that, it will need to connect to powered monitors. I would assume it will be perfectly fine. Can't wait until tomorrow to hear for myself!


----------



## theveterans

Imagine if Bifrost Multibit had a balanced out. That and Jotunheim will the perfect office friendly balanced desktop setup!


----------



## KnightSirius

acguitar84 said:


> This is what the manual says:
> 
> "6. Balanced Preamp Output. Connect to powered monitors or a speaker amp."
> 
> I'm going to use mine like that, it will need to connect to powered monitors. I would assume it will be perfectly fine. Can't wait until tomorrow to hear for myself!


 

 Ah, I see. I actually made a mistake.

 I thought the higher end amps had "BAL OUT" that are meant to go to the monitors directly from the AMP.
 They actually only have "BAL OUT" on their DACs for sending the signal to the "BAL IN" of their AMPs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
 "PRE OUT" is what I thought "BAL OUT" actually meant 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So they work with powered monitors, that's great. Now I really want them haha!

 Btw, @acguitar84 when you do get them and set em' up can you explain how they work in terms of which source plays when headphones and monitors are both plugged in?
 I can't tell if the toggle switch in the front with the 3 diagrams if for switching outputs or if it is for something else... I know the other one is gain.


----------



## earnmyturns

lenroot77 said:


> Yes yes yes I know I know I know it been explained over and over and over and over.... And over here at headfi.


 
 Explained where? Curious about actual explanations of the difference, not partisan fights between Cavalli-bots and Schiit-heads. My intended use for my still-being-built LC v2  is SE input, balanced output, to take the place of an Asgard 2 in a microRendu>Bimby>amp>Ether C Flow chain. I considered ordering a Jot as well to compare, and then sell the loser or use it for a contemplated work setup, but if the Jot's balanced output is not that different from SE, maybe it's not much of a change from the Asgard 2 (yes, I know, very different topology, somewhat different specs, YMMV, ...).


----------



## Ngoliath

Just got this amp (with DAC module) today and have been listening to it all afternoon. I have been using it with the LCD-XC, Ether C, and TH-X00 PH. The sound is very good on all three. I compared SE and balanced with Ether C and the XC's and wasn't able to discern a great difference in the sound quality. My favorite is the Ether C's because it draws me on to the stage and I get lost in the music. The clarity is amazing without losing the sweetness of the music. The TH-X00's keep their powerful bass and charm. I think this DAC is a bit more forgiving than the Modi MB. I moved the Modi MB to my bedroom setup. I will continue to experiment with this unit, but my initial impression is that for someone who doesn't already own a ton of equipment, this is an amazing desktop solution for this price if you have any headphones with balanced cables. I have been waiting on my LC order, but now I'm not sure if I care when it comes in now.


----------



## lenroot77

earnmyturns said:


> Explained where? Curious about actual explanations of the difference, not partisan fights between Cavalli-bots and Schiit-heads. My intended use for my still-being-built LC v2  is SE input, balanced output, to take the place of an Asgard 2 in a microRendu>Bimby>amp>Ether C Flow chain. I considered ordering a Jot as well to compare, and then sell the loser or use it for a contemplated work setup, but if the Jot's balanced output is not that different from SE, maybe it's not much of a change from the Asgard 2 (yes, I know, very different topology, somewhat different specs, YMMV, ...).




The last few pages of the hd800 thread currently have some explanation on balanced/SE. Fjrabon's posts specifically.

I can tell u that a balanced input on the LC is not required as it has a phase splitter. I know Stillhart did some testing and found little to no difference. I believe his findings were in the original LC thread and again reiterated in the 2nd run thread. 

But that is betting off topic. Sorry


----------



## Allanmarcus

knightsirius said:


> Was so excited to see this release!
> I'm so torn now with this new product out. It's great for it's price point and now it's thrown me off as to what Schiit to get!
> I was planning to get a Mjolnir 2 and a Gungir. Mjolnir first and when I have money again finish it off with the Gungir but now with this available I'm considering different options
> 
> Really want balanced outputs for my studio monitors though, cause I'm pretty sure PRE OUT is not the same as BAL OUT.


 

 Will you monitors be really really far (like 50') away from the amp? If so, the balanced cables might reduce interference (if there is any). If the monitors are relatively close to the amp, then balanced cables won't many any sound quality difference.


----------



## XERO1

> Originally Posted by *Ngoliath* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I compared SE and balanced with Ether C and the XC's and wasn't able to discern a great difference in the sound quality.


 
  
 My theory for this is that because of its unique topology, it might be the very first amp that has the ability to sound virtually identical from both of its SE and balanced outputs.
  
 To my knowledge, all other amp topologies will favor either the SE out or the balanced out , but not both.  Unless the amp has two separate amp sections, one dedicated to the SE out and a completely separate section dedicated to the balanced out.  But a design like that is pretty rare, and usually expensive.
  
 So this is a win-win.  You get a great sounding amp that has a SE output that performs nearly identical to its balanced output, so you don't have to buy a balanced cable to get the best from this amp.  And if for some _*very unlikely*_ reason you need more power than the SE output can provide, the balanced output is capable of delivering over 3x more power than the SE output.
  
 What's not to love?!


----------



## KnightSirius

allanmarcus said:


> Will you monitors be really really far (like 50') away from the amp? If so, the balanced cables might reduce interference (if there is any). If the monitors are relatively close to the amp, then balanced cables won't many any sound quality difference.


 

 Nope they won't be anywhere near that distance they are more like 3ft away and 6ft on the other side 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I know that XLR is for distance to reduce interference I just wanna get it anyways because I need to get better cables for between the speakers/amp regardless so I might as well get XLRs if the thing supports it!

 Would I pay a ton more just to have that feature? Of course not, but if it has it then I'll do it that way cause why not y'know 
 Unless there is actually a benefit of going RCA when it's that short a distance that I'm unaware of, then I'd definitely stick with ol' RCA  (Totally could be! I'm not that knowledgeable on the differences between XLR/RCA apart from the better distance/interference bit for XLR)


----------



## ucanuup

Just found out that plugging in headphones DOES NOT mute pre-outs. Now I have to turn off speaks every time I want to listen to headphones. I really don't like this design.


----------



## vhsownsbeta

ucanuup said:


> Just found out that plugging in headphones DOES NOT mute pre-outs. Now I have to turn off speaks every time I want to listen to headphones. I really don't like this design.




XLR jacks generally aren't sensing...


----------



## Ggroch

vhsownsbeta said:


> XLR jacks generally aren't sensing...


 
 In this case the SE headphone outputs and the SE Pre Outs are not sensing either.  Just got my amp in last night and am very pleased. My ears (or the amp) aren't fully burned in yet but I am surprised how different it sounds from my Gustard.  More detailed, not as dark. Not bright or edgy (unless the recording is).  Sounds great with a wide variety of phones.
  
 In my setup the pre-out not cutting off is fine.      What IS too bright is the front LED. I do not have other Schiit to compare it to, but far brighter than any other amp I have used and in a bedroom setup that's not good. _Fortunately there is a  $7 Lightdims solution.  _Amazon's $111 install charge seems a bit high but my neighbor is a stamp collector so can provide technical advice


----------



## MattTCG

ggroch said:


> In this case the SE headphone outputs and the SE Pre Outs are not sensing either.  Just got my amp in last night and am very pleased. My ears (or the amp) aren't fully burned in yet but I am surprised how different it sounds from my Gustard.  More detailed, not as dark. Not bright or edgy (unless the recording is).  Sounds great with a wide variety of phones.
> 
> In my setup the pre-out not cutting off is fine.      What IS too bright is the front LED. I do not have other Schiit to compare it to, but far brighter than any other amp I have used and in a bedroom setup that's not good. _Fortunately there is a  $7 Lightdims solution.  _Amazon's $111 install charge seems a bit high but my neighbor is a stamp collector so can provide technical advice


 
  
 Congrats! What DAC are you using?


----------



## Ggroch

matttcg said:


> Congrats! What DAC are you using


 
 So far I have just tried my Xduoo XD-05 which uses an AK4490 DAC.  Just Spotify on Optical so far.  I like the XD-05 because it sounds great, and runs on batteries (so no expensive power supply required) and because of the switchable filters.  Much more listening to go.


----------



## AviP

ggroch said:


> What IS too bright is the front LED. I do not have other Schiit to compare it to, but far brighter than any other amp I have used and in a bedroom setup that's not good. _Fortunately there is a  $7 Lightdims solution. _ Amazon's $111 install charge seems a bit high but my neighbor is a stamp collector so can provide technical advice :etysmile:



Get this instead, it'll look better on Schiit's stuff


----------



## mike138

I would be interested if any of you guys could compare the Jotunheim with DAC option to the Magni/Modi 2U stack. Every time I consider upgrading my stack, I'm reminded of what a good value it is and how much I'd have to spend to get a significant sound upgrade. IMO, the stack punches well above its price.


----------



## Zachik

mike138 said:


> I would be interested if any of you guys could compare the Jotunheim with DAC option to the Magni/Modi 2U stack. Every time I consider upgrading my stack, I'm reminded of what a good value it is and how much I'd have to spend to get a significant sound upgrade. IMO, the stack punches well above its price.


 
  
 Also, would appreciate a Joty vs. m9xx comparison.  I am in the market for a single box DAC/Amp for $500...


----------



## jfoxvol

ngoliath said:


> Just got this amp (with DAC module) today and have been listening to it all afternoon. I have been using it with the LCD-XC, Ether C, and TH-X00 PH. The sound is very good on all three. I compared SE and balanced with Ether C and the XC's and wasn't able to discern a great difference in the sound quality. My favorite is the Ether C's because it draws me on to the stage and I get lost in the music. The clarity is amazing without losing the sweetness of the music. The TH-X00's keep their powerful bass and charm. I think this DAC is a bit more forgiving than the Modi MB. I moved the Modi MB to my bedroom setup. I will continue to experiment with this unit, but my initial impression is that for someone who doesn't already own a ton of equipment, this is an amazing desktop solution for this price if you have any headphones with balanced cables. I have been waiting on my LC order, but now I'm not sure if I care when it comes in now.


 
 Good to know.  I'm waiting on fedex now.  I've been rocking my LC with HD600 and Ether C 1.1.  The LC loves both of them.  I can't wait to try the Joti


----------



## franzdom

ggroch said:


> In this case the SE headphone outputs and the SE Pre Outs are not sensing either.  Just got my amp in last night and am very pleased. My ears (or the amp) aren't fully burned in yet but I am surprised how different it sounds from my Gustard.  More detailed, not as dark. Not bright or edgy (unless the recording is).  Sounds great with a wide variety of phones.
> 
> In my setup the pre-out not cutting off is fine.      What IS too bright is the front LED. I do not have other Schiit to compare it to, but far brighter than any other amp I have used and in a bedroom setup that's not good. _Fortunately there is a  $7 Lightdims solution.  _Amazon's $111 install charge seems a bit high but my neighbor is a stamp collector so can provide technical advice


 
  
 Thanks for the link, I had not heard of that. I was using electrical tape but the installation charge was killing my headphone budget!


----------



## KnightSirius

ucanuup said:


> Just found out that plugging in headphones DOES NOT mute pre-outs. Now I have to turn off speaks every time I want to listen to headphones. I really don't like this design.


 

 Ugh that sucks, cause turning off my monitors are a pain, button is on the back and they're wall mounted...
 What is the first toggle switch (from left to right) used for? I thought it was an output switch, but I guess not.
  


vhsownsbeta said:


> XLR jacks generally aren't sensing...


 
 Regardless of that they really should have implemented a way to mute speaker source if headphones are being used, either with an output switch or an automatic mute.
 I'm sure there is some way to do it.


----------



## Letmebefrank

knightsirius said:


> Ugh that sucks, cause turning off my monitors are a pain, button is on the back and they're wall mounted...
> What is the first toggle switch (from left to right) used for? I thought it was an output switch, but I guess not.
> 
> Regardless of that they really should have implemented a way to mute speaker source if headphones are being used, either with an output switch or an automatic mute.
> I'm sure there is some way to do it.


 
  
 The switch on the left changes inputs. Top is built in card, middle is balanced, bottom is SE.


----------



## darinf

knightsirius said:


> Ugh that sucks, cause turning off my monitors are a pain, button is on the back and they're wall mounted...
> What is the first toggle switch (from left to right) used for? I thought it was an output switch, but I guess not.
> 
> Regardless of that they really should have implemented a way to mute speaker source if headphones are being used, either with an output switch or an automatic mute.
> I'm sure there is some way to do it.


 
 What about remote control power outlets? Or even WiFi switches? Or you could mount a power strip somewhere convenient and just power off the power strip to "mute" your speakers.


----------



## MWSVette

They should have a switch like is on the Raggy that allows switching between HP or speakers or both.

Of course with the Joti it would be HP out or bal out or both...


----------



## bigro

darinf said:


> What about remote control power outlets? Or even WiFi switches? Or you could mount a power strip somewhere convenient and just power off the power strip to "mute" your speakers.


 
  
 This is a Balanced Volume Control which can go Inline between Your Jot XLR Output and your Monitors. It is Passive so like the SYS it should not pollute the audio signal. No need to power down the monitors just turn the knob down and enjoy your Cans.
  
http://emotiva.com/products/electronics/control-freak


----------



## rwelles

bigro said:


> This is a Balanced Volume Control which can go Inline between Your Jot XLR Output and your Monitors. It is Passive so like the SYS it should not pollute the audio signal. No need to power down the monitors just turn the knob down and enjoy your Cans.
> 
> http://emotiva.com/products/electronics/control-freak


 

 I tried the control freak. Personally, I didn't find it very useful. The actual range for controlling volume was not that great. About to go pick up my Jot!! woot.


----------



## GearMe

bigro said:


> This is a Balanced Volume Control which can go Inline between Your Jot XLR Output and your Monitors. It is Passive so like the SYS it should not pollute the audio signal. No need to power down the monitors just turn the knob down and enjoy your Cans.
> 
> http://emotiva.com/products/electronics/control-freak




They're running a 15% off sale (SAVEBIG15) this weekend as well...takes in down another $7.50 and I think they ship free.


----------



## bigro

gearme said:


> They're running a 15% off sale (SAVEBIG15) this weekend as well...takes in down another $7.50 and I think they ship free.


 
  


rwelles said:


> I tried the control freak. Personally, I didn't find it very useful. The actual range for controlling volume was not that great. About to go pick up my Jot!! woot.


 
  
 I can understand that. Just a suggestion. If used Just to turn the volume to max and min instead of having to power down monitors all the time. rmoody said it would have been better if it had an instant mute option which I agree with. Let us Know your Thoughts on the Jot.
  


gearme said:


> They're running a 15% off sale (SAVEBIG15) this weekend as well...takes in down another $7.50 and I think they ship free.


 
 I ordered a Pair of their outdoor speakers On Wednesday Got it Yesterday ( I live a few hours from Nashville). Shipping was free and fast Like Schiit. Every time I have ordered from them I get a Tracking confirmation within hours some times within an hour.


----------



## pctazhp

I just find it mildly humorous how so many people want different things on the Jotunheim. Maybe Schiit will take them all into consideration and introduce a $5,000 version.


----------



## acguitar84

Early impressions of Jotunheim. It's a pretty neat looking gadget! It's sort of heavy, which makes sense for an amp of course!  I got it delivered to my office first. I'm at work, so I'm trying it here first, then I'll take it home for the 3 day weekend and try it against my other stuff, such as the Wa7 Fireflies and it's DAC, the concero HD, and of course, my trusty Mimby Multibit. 
  
 I have it hooked into my speaker system right now, listening to .flac files. I was using a mackie 802VLZ4 mixer and the m audio 24/96 sound card feeding it with RCA cords, and using balanced XLR cords to the powered monitors. It sounds just barely ok in that format. When I brought the mimby out and used it, of course it smoked the m audio easily, no contest. 
  
 The Dac (I ordered the DAC with the Jotunheim), doesn't smoke the M audio near as much, but still does. It's still clearer and there's more tone. It makes me miss multibit though. Then again, I knew what I was getting into with this DAC, it's only 100 bucks, I didn't figure they'd stick the equivalent of the Yggy in there, lol, or even the mimby. It's definitely usable. Just like I figured, a "pinch hitter" in times of crisis, the bigger DAC goes out for service/update, ect.
  
 Other than that, the amp seems to be doing it's "job". Then again, all it's doing right now is being a preamp to my speakers.  And as such (so far), I'm finding I prefer the low power switch over the high power for this task.
  
 I can't wait to see how this does as a headphone amp, but that will have to wait until I'm home. I saw some post on another site saying the Jotunheim was comparing favorably with his Eddie Current Zana Deux Super. Seems crazy? The Jotunheim seems punchy, even as a preamp. Gosh. I wish I had the mimby out here to see how it would sound with the mimby driving it. I bet pretty damn good. 
  
 I just have to figure out if it's worth replacing my mixers, and I'm not so sure about that. I thought about having at least two Jotunheims for my desktop rigs, since they're fully balanced. Buy a gumby or even a yggy to feed them a great DAC (and balanced, not SE RCA) signal, and also have a really nice headphone amp at each rig (desk) if needed. The mixers are nice, if I want to use them for transcribing, but I usually transcribe with the speakers, not with headphones. If it's tough to get, maybe, but I transcribe so much and have for so many years it's gotten easier. Still kicks my butt once in a while though.
  
 Anyway, so far so good. Can't wait to see the comparisons at home, with all of the gear available. So far though, as my DAC's go, I think it's sort of like this:  M Audio < Wa7 Fireflies DAC < Jotunheim DAC < Concero HD < Mimby (easily the champ).
  
 Wa7 Fireflies vs Jotunheim awaits at home, not to mention hearing it with the different DAC's. 
  
 I'm so glad I own Mimby!


----------



## rwelles

Just got everything hooked up. I was surprised that the gain switch also affects the pre-amp out; thought it would only be for the hp output. 
  
 Anyone know whether it is better to use high or low gain when using it as a pre-amp??
  
 I'm using this auto-switching power strip. When I turn on the Jot, the speakers power up. There are no significant pops or clicks in power up or power down. The muting delay circuit also affects the pre-amp out.
  
 The Jot is a very solid piece, much heavier than I anticipated. Stacks nicely with my Bimby.


----------



## acguitar84

rwelles said:


> Just got everything hooked up. I was surprised that the gain switch also affects the pre-amp out; thought it would only be for the hp output.
> 
> Anyone know whether it is better to use high or low gain when using it as a pre-amp??
> 
> ...


 
 lol, that tripped me out when I flicked that switch to high gain! Blew me out of my chair! I'm not sure yet which one I like, but so far, it's been the low gain for my speakers. I bet this thing sounds really good with bimby!


----------



## jfoxvol

I just got mine in today. I got the phono board but haven't set that up quite yet. It's currently being fed from my Bimby and bryston BDP. I was using cavalli LC prior and initial impressions of this amp are quite good. Very articulate and clear. Very musical. More forward and punchy than the LC. It's as quiet as a library for church mice. More detailed impressions later but so far I like it.


----------



## JLoud

I have a Modi 2/Magni 2 stack and my Jotunheim arrived today.  I will be comparing them this weekend.  Will pass on my opinions.


----------



## MWSVette

Received the Joti today. Amp only, no phono, no USB.

Using my Bimby SE and Emotiva DC-1 balanced as DACs. Very pleased so far. 

Well worth the $399.00 price.


----------



## gto88

So many are getting the amp now.
 Be sure to share your impression, I'd like to see more impression before I order it.


----------



## Cet1

Yes everyone post...post...post!  Please include how the system is configured, headphones used, as well as your impressions.  The rest of us are depending on you and your reports!  We have our finger on the trigger, waiting on inputs from "USERs"!!


----------



## ucanuup

It seems that the wireless outlet is a solution to switching headphone/moniter. Didn't even know they exist before!


----------



## acguitar84

I'm really enjoying Jotunheim out here at the office, even with its DAC. Really nice, music sounds really good. I can't wait to hear it as a headphone amp tonight!


----------



## CCXR594

Is there somewhere where the slang names for the various Schiit products are explained? Know "Gumby" is Gungnir, but I'm not clear on "Mimby" and "Bimby".


----------



## rsnblmn

ccxr594 said:


> Is there somewhere where the slang names for the various Schiit products are explained? Know "Gumby" is Gungnir, but I'm not clear on "Mimby" and "Bimby".


 
  
 "Mimby" = Modi Multibit
  
 "Bimby" = Bifrost Multibit
  
 I believe all the nicknames were coined by @Baldr (aka Mike Moffat).
  
 I am not sure if an official nickname for Jotunheim has been endorsed by Schiit Royalty yet, but we need one as I'm getting too lazy to keep typing it out!


----------



## elira

I've been testing my Jotunheim since yesterday and I can tell you that it's definitely an improvement to my Fulla. There's almost no distortion in the Jotunheim while the Fulla had much more and more evident. I don't know how it compares to a Modi/Magni stack, but I tested a Modi (First version) and it had some distortion with some high frequency sounds, the dac inside the Jotunheim (if you choose to have it with a dac) sounds definitely better.


----------



## CCXR594

rsnblmn said:


> "Mimby" = Modi Multibit
> 
> "Bimby" = Bifrost Multibit
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks


----------



## KnightSirius

letmebefrank said:


> The switch on the left changes inputs. Top is built in card, middle is balanced, bottom is SE.


 

 Ah I see, thanks for explaining 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  


darinf said:


> What about remote control power outlets? Or even WiFi switches? Or you could mount a power strip somewhere convenient and just power off the power strip to "mute" your speakers.


 

 That's a good idea, definitely would work. However comparing that method of doing it vs having a third toggle switch on the front to switch between Headphone/Monitors / Monitors / Headphones big difference in terms of convenience.
  
 I really feel like that's something you shouldn't even have to think about when buying a product like this!
 To me it's literally the closest to perfect desktop AMP/DAC combo, it's just missing that ONE small detail, if it had that I think I'd be getting my wallet out.
 However I might be getting my wallet out cause I just realized none of their higher tier products have this feature as well! Agh


----------



## Maconi

It's a shame that the Jotunheim supports balanced in/out but the DAC isn't multibit. The only balanced multibit DACs in Schiit's lineup are the Gunginir and Yggdrasil. I have the Yggy beside of me, but if I could have paired up a multibit DAC with the Jotunheim for under $1k I would have instantly bought it (for traveling/work/etc.). The only way I could see them hitting that pricepoint thought is if it's possible to convert the Modi Multibit to balanced in/out (that or somehow make a multibit expansion card for the Jotunheim). I guess I'll hold out and see what Schiit does in the coming months.


----------



## rwelles

Now that I’ve had a few hours with the Jotunheim, here are few (strictly unprofessional) observations.
  
 Overall, I love it so far. It has surpassed my expectations.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I’m using it with a Bimby to Emotive Airmotiv 5S powered monitors (with Rythmik sub) in my home computer rig. Also HD800S, TH-X00 PH, and JHA Angie custom headphones.
  
 Some early notes:
  

Overall, the Jot seems very neutral in presentation. Though, if you’re very picky (after all, you *are* on this forum), some might consider this a slight bit ‘forward’ in presentation. IMO, this is a benefit, not a detraction.
Switching the gain will produce VERY slight “pops” in the balanced pre-amp out and the SE headphone out. Absolutely no pops over balanced HP output.
Jeez, this has gobs of power!!! With the 800S, my limit is about 9 o’clock for pop/rock; 11 with (very high dynamic range) classic music. If nothing else, the HP amy does NOT suffer from lack of power!
This definitely “punches above it’s weight.” The overall value is better than most Schiit products (with the possible exception of the Mimby), which is very impressive — considering their track record!! 
The Jot has amazing flexibility! It bridges the chasm of Single Ended and Balance, both as a pre-amp and an hp amp. It is a most-welcomed addition to my home rig. 
At $499 (USD), this is an great entry point for someone getting in to a computer DAC/amp. While the internal DAC is not up to par with a multi-bit, it is absolutely no slouch. Later on, it is very easy to add an external DAC, either SE or balanced. For example, I have a Gumby in my HT system. When I replace it (eventually…), I can just move the Gumby over to my computer. 
When using the Angies at low gain, there is a VERY slight lean to the right side (audio-wise) when I first bring up the volume. But that quickly evens out. This is insignificant IMO (esp. considering the price of the Jot).
When placed on top of a Bimby, it does get a bit warm. It is not hot to the touch. Definitely not as hot as an Asgard, but warmer than the Bimby.


----------



## Baldr

maconi said:


> It's a shame that the Jotunheim supports balanced in/out but the DAC isn't multibit. The only balanced multibit DACs in Schiit's lineup are the Gunginir and Yggdrasil. I have the Yggy beside of me, but if I could have paired up a multibit DAC with the Jotunheim for under $1k I would have instantly bought it (for traveling/work/etc.). The only way I could see them hitting that pricepoint thought is if it's possible to convert the Modi Multibit to balanced in/out (that or somehow make a multibit expansion card for the Jotunheim). I guess I'll hold out and see what Schiit does in the coming months.


 

 1.  Can't fit multibit balanced in Bimby, (much less a Jodie) without resorting to pony trick balance in analog domain only sizzle.  Nope.
  
 2.  Can't fit SE MB even in Jodie without hanging the card an inch or so out the top, with a wall wart socket (on top), which will make the Jodie almost as ugly as our threatened Cthulhu.  Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeellllllll, in order to do so, we would have to port all of our DSP burrito code over to some low-powered ARM.  Not likely, with the five other frisbees I have spinning on sticks at the moment. 
  
 If you hold your breath, unfortunately you will turn blue.


----------



## drheadphone

Got my Jot today and love it. I bought it as a secondary amp to my Rag and paired it balanced with my Oppo BDP-105D. For now I'm mainly using it for movie watching and bedside listening - the task of my former Vali2. I liked the Vali2. Super neutral, clear and pairs well with all of my headphones (HE560, HD650, TH-X00 and LCD3F). The Jot takes that sound and irons it out with better linearity, greater extension and improved detail and soundstage. It retains some of the smoothness of the Vali2 and I even detect a slight midbass emphasis like the Vali2. Impressive for $400 and very likely worth 2-3 times that. Not quite on the same level as the Rag (which has cleaner bass, more extension and even better resolution) but close. Like a little brother pretending to be his big brother. But being little is okay too...


As for the DAC section, "pinch hitter" is a great description. It's not gonna win any awards. I even prefer the Oppo BDP-105D USB DAC (Sabre 9018) over the Jot. But it's nice to have in a pinch.


----------



## Allanmarcus

drheadphone said:


> Got my Jot today and love it. I bought it as a secondary amp to my Rag and paired it balanced with my Oppo BDP-105D. For now I'm mainly using it for movie watching and bedside listening - the task of my former Vali2. I liked the Vali2. Super neutral, clear and pairs well with all of my headphones (HE560, HD650, TH-X00 and LCD3F). The Jot takes that sound and irons it out with better linearity, greater extension and improved detail and soundstage. It retains some of the smoothness of the Vali2 and I even detect a slight midbass emphasis like the Vali2. Impressive for $400 and very likely worth 2-3 times that. Not quite on the same level as the Rag (which has cleaner bass, more extension and even better resolution) but close. Like a little brother pretending to be his big brother. But being little is okay too...
> 
> 
> As for the DAC section, "pinch hitter" is a great description. It's not gonna win any awards. I even prefer the Oppo BDP-105D USB DAC (Sabre 9018) over the Jot. But it's nice to have in a pinch.




Thanks for the impressions. What do you mean by linearity?


----------



## drheadphone

Balanced tonally from low-end to mid to high-end frequencies.


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

maconi said:


> It's a shame that the Jotunheim supports balanced in/out but the DAC isn't multibit. The only balanced multibit DACs in Schiit's lineup are the Gunginir and Yggdrasil. I have the Yggy beside of me, but if I could have paired up a multibit DAC with the Jotunheim for under $1k I would have instantly bought it (for traveling/work/etc.). The only way I could see them hitting that pricepoint thought is if it's possible to convert the Modi Multibit to balanced in/out (that or somehow make a multibit expansion card for the Jotunheim). I guess I'll hold out and see what Schiit does in the coming months.


 
  
 Bifrost Multibit $599 
 Juggle thru model -> http://schiit.com/products/bifrost
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBlADcpbxbg
  

  
  
 not mine...but they go together...


----------



## FLTWS

baldr said:


> ... (much less a Jodie) ..


 
  
 And there you have it, the official nickname is "Jodie".


----------



## Yethal

alex martin said:


> There is no DSD functionality on the Jotunheim DAC board.  There will be no DSD functionality added to any Schiit product for the foreseeable future.  Jason and Mike have said more times than I can count that we won't be pursuing DSD.  Why would we pursue a dying standard when Mike, Jason, and Dave can utilize their time building better DACs and amps that take advantage of their years of collective experience.  If Sony truly supported DSD, they would have spent the millions to open their vaults and convert a massive music catalog.  Why would we support this standard when the company that created the standard won't even support it?


 

 There is a conspiracy theory circling around the Internet that Sony will never release the DSD records out of fear that the combined scream of all diehard DSD fans will put Earth out of its orbit.


----------



## Vigrith

yethal said:


> There is a conspiracy theory circling around the Internet that Sony will never release the DSD records out of fear that the combined scream of all diehard DSD fans will put Earth out of its orbit.




Damn, all 15 of them?






(Sorry, I'll show myself out)


----------



## Limu Shirin

HEy everyone, any background hiss with IEMs or sensetive cans with jotunheim?


----------



## Yethal

vigrith said:


> Damn, all 15 of them?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 What they lack in numbers they make up for with audacity.


----------



## scottcocoabeach

limu shirin said:


> HEy everyone, any background hiss with IEMs or sensetive cans with jotunheim?




With Single Ended Input I don't notice any. I haven't tried the balanced input yet.


----------



## jude

limu shirin said:


> HEy everyone, any background hiss with IEMs or sensetive cans with jotunheim?


 
  
 With my FitEar MH334 custom-fit, using its DAC module as source (which would the same as using the balanced input), plugging into the Jotunheim reveals a barely detectable self-noise from the amp--I mean _barely_ there, and low enough to be lost in recorded room noise.
  
 With the other IEMs I've tried with it so far (again, from its DAC module as source), it's silent for me.
  
 If I try another IEM that can reveal more self-noise than the MH334 custom, I'll let you know.


----------



## comzee

jude said:


> With my FitEar MH334 custom-fit, using its DAC module as source (which would the same as using the balanced input), plugging into the Jotunheim reveals a barely detectable self-noise from the amp--I mean _barely_ there, and low enough to be lost in recorded room noise.


 
 Adding to this: I tried Dunu Titan 3 / DN1000 and there was zero noise. Moving into volume levels that would cause hearing damage with IEM (about 2/3 in), I could hear the "barely detectable self-noise from the amp". It is just that, extremely low Db noise, appearing at a volume you'd never listen to anyway.


----------



## oldschool

yethal said:


> There is a conspiracy theory circling around the Internet that Sony will never release the DSD records out of fear that the combined scream of all diehard DSD fans will put Earth out of its orbit.


 
  
 That's funny because several audiophile labels our there, with which I would assume most members here are quite familiar, still regularly put out SACDs. I would also assume some of those SACDs would be the definitive digital versions of those albums.
  
 But I guess for other people if it ain't streamable there's no market for it


----------



## sheldaze

I thought it was in this thread, but apparently it was in another where a user suggested that the Ragnarok is not capable of driving the HE-1000. I'll have to check back there to see what they were referring to. But their second suggestion was the Jotunheim would be less capable than Ragnarok in driving the HE-1000. I find this to be completely false.
  
 Background thoughts out the way, this is a supreme amplifier! Everyone speaks of the proverbial wire with a gain - this is not that. But it seems to dispense with the formalities, the normal lets get to know the headphone, which all other amplifiers I've encountered do. The first headphone I tried was HD650, because it is the first headphone I almost always try. The next headphone was HE-1000, and the difference was not a lot. Not like with most amplifiers how much of a gain there is jumping from $300 to $3000 transducers. The amplifier simply said, move out of the way - because I am coming through.
  
 And that was indeed the second reason I did not post yesterday upon receiving and first listening to this beast. On both ends, source and output, the amplifier did what it was told to do and did not make excuses. This, I think, is the first time I'm truly hearing my source, being the Mimby, which is traditionally in a Modi/Magni stack. Output instead into the Jodie, I hear what the Mimby is. It is kind of a ruthless source, with a little more stuff happening in the upper registers than I personally like. I was fearing that this amplifier was bright. Not the case! When I changed to my Chord Mojo for source, I heard nothing harsh in the upper registers.
  
 For those who don't like to read too much - this amplifier plays. It plays irregardless of the thing it is playing into. And it plays straight to the core of the source. If your source is harsh, your output is harsh. If your source is clean, your output is clean. I will eventually pop over to the Rag, but at this moment, I do not feel the need. If you want to hear what your source sounds like, and you don't want to buy an amplifier for every headphone, give the Jodie a try!


----------



## MattTCG

@sheldaze I would echo your thoughts. I'm pairing the Jodie with Gumby and I keeping thinking to myself that this amp has NO right to sound this good at this price point. It resolves your source to a fault. But put the right source behind it and what you are rewarded with is engaging and musical. 
  
 It's too early for me to go into much detail but suffice it to say, I'm really impressed with Jodie.


----------



## MonoOno

Dammit, someone please review the DAC in comparison to other DACs around its price range like the Modi or ODAC. I'm mostly seeing people comparing it to their $500 or more DACs thus dismissing it.


----------



## theveterans

> Dammit, someone please review the DAC in comparison to other DACs around its price range like the Modi or ODAC. I'm mostly seeing people comparing it to their $500 or more DACs thus dismissing it.


 
  
 Any Schiit's multibit will trounce the internal DAC IMO. You're better off getting the Mimby + Jodi with phono stage or without.


----------



## Vigrith

monoono said:


> Dammit, someone please review the DAC in comparison to other DACs around its price range like the Modi or ODAC. I'm mostly seeing people comparing it to their $500 or more DACs thus dismissing it.




Given its implementation and the fact it's balanced should theoretically mean it handily beats "standard" stuff in its price range like the original modi iterations, the ODAC, etc. I'd wager.

Personally I'd wanna find out how it fares up against the Modi MB, according to Sheldaze's analysis the mimby + Jotun pairing may have too much going for it in the upper registers than what I'd want it to (treble sensitive) - wonder if the dual DAC module would work better in that regard, being a little smoother akin to how clean the Mojo is. That'd make it worth it for me.

If the difference is negligible however I'll just get the the pono module instead and work my way up to a Gumby later on I suppose.


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> not mine...but they go together...




That's my photo of my gear. I don't mind you using it but please give credit if you're going to do so, thank you. 



vigrith said:


> Given its implementation and the fact it's balanced should theoretically mean it handily beats "standard" stuff in its price range like the original modi iterations, the ODAC, etc. I'd wager.
> 
> Personally I'd wanna find out how it fares up against the Modi MB, according to Sheldaze's analysis the mimby + Jotun pairing may have too much going for it in the upper registers than what I'd want it to (treble sensitive) - wonder if the dual DAC module would work better in that regard, being a little smoother akin to how clean the Mojo is. That'd make it worth it for me.
> 
> If the difference is negligible however I'll just get the the pono module instead and work my way up to a Gumby later on I suppose.




I've found that the Momby has some hot treble but that gets worked out through more extensive playback, not just leaving the DAC on but actively playing music through it. 

To my ears there is no contest between the Momby and Jodie's internal DAC. The internal DAC is more aggressive and bright, but with less overall detail and completely lacking the extra textural layer that makes Schiit's multibit DACs sound so realistic and engaging. If you want a great D/S DAC to pair with Jodie, get a GOV2/+ or GO2a and a balanced cable. Otherwise get a Momby, play a lot of music through it to take the treble, and be happy.


----------



## erik701

Somebody already tried Jotunheim with LCD-4 in balanced mode?


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

merrick said:


> That's my photo of my gear. I don't mind you using it but please give credit if you're going to do so, thank you.


 
 Sorry Bro no harm intended... Guyz!! Its his....


----------



## jfoxvol

Question for other folks out in the field with their Jotis: Is there a noticeable amount of noise floor increase as you raise the volume? With some of the cans I'm using, I can hear quite a bit as I roll up the volume. One caveat. I have dirty power in my apartment. I suspect a bad ground somewhere. It may just be attributed to that. I'm not sure. I haven't used at the office yet. Perhaps this topology might be more sensitive to that. I do recall the original Mjolnir didn't enjoy being on circuits with a dimmer switch colocated. That aside, the sound quality is pretty darn good.


----------



## WilCox

theveterans said:


> Any Schiit's multibit will trounce the internal DAC IMO. You're better off getting the Mimby + Jodi with phono stage or without.


 
  
 I would respectfully disagree with your statements.  Received my Jotunheim with DAC yesterday and I am quite pleased.  While I haven't done a direct comparison with my Bifrost Multibit, the Jotunheim + DAC has kept me very engaged in going though my music collection.  I could live with this as an end-game system and forget about upgrades, spending more time on exploring music.


----------



## acguitar84

wilcox said:


> I would respectfully disagree with your statements.  Received my Jotunheim with DAC yesterday and I am quite pleased.  While I haven't done a direct comparison with my Bifrost Multibit, the Jotunheim + DAC has kept me very engaged in going though my music collection.  I could live with this as an end-game system and forget about upgrades, spending more time on exploring music.




I agree. Yesterday out at the office, I thought the Jortunheim's DAC did just fine (through speakers). I didn't directly compare it with mimby here at home with headphones, but I'm sure it would do ok.


----------



## Vigrith

wilcox said:


> I would respectfully disagree with your statements.  Received my Jotunheim with DAC yesterday and I am quite pleased.  While I haven't done a direct comparison with my Bifrost Multibit, the Jotunheim + DAC has kept me very engaged in going though my music collection.  I could live with this as an end-game system and forget about upgrades, spending more time on exploring music.




Interesting impressions! I'd definitely be interested in the comparison between the Jotun DAC and your Bifrost MB if you'd get around to posting them, appreciate Merrick's input as well!

I have a Modi MB already but given I only spent around 2 hours with it before I left on holiday I haven't had the chance to properly evaluate its performance yet - hence I'm trying to figure out whether the internal DAC competes (if it does then I'll get it and find another use for the MB Modi) or if I should skip it and get the pono instead when I order my Jotun after getting back home.


----------



## phren0logy

I would love some thoughts about Joti + DAC vs Dangerous Music Source. Thanks to anyone who may be able to chime in.


----------



## JLoud

Comparing to Modi2/Magni2 right now.  Using Hifiman he 560 with single ended cable.  So far I would say better impact and slam in the bass.  Also a little more air and better soundstage.  Waiting for custom cable to arrive to compare balanced output.  Always wondered if the 560's would benefit from a little more power then the Magni 2 has.


----------



## XERO1

sheldaze said:


> For those who don't like to read too much - this amplifier plays. It plays irregardless of the thing it is playing into. And it plays straight to the core of the source. If your source is harsh, your output is harsh. If your source is clean, your output is clean. I will eventually pop over to the Rag, but at this moment, I do not feel the need. If you want to hear what your source sounds like, and you don't want to buy an amplifier for every headphone, give the Jodie a try!


 
  


matttcg said:


> @sheldaze I would echo your thoughts. I'm pairing the Jodie with Gumby and I keeping thinking to myself that this amp has NO right to sound this good at this price point. It resolves your source to a fault. But put the right source behind it and what you are rewarded with is engaging and musical.
> 
> It's too early for me to go into much detail but suffice it to say, I'm really impressed with Jodie.


 
  
 Awesome news!  This was what I was secretly hoping the Jodie (great nickname, Mike) would be capable of.


----------



## earnmyturns

I contemplated getting a Jotie for work, given the very good reviews here and the nice form factor. But the sads is that I don't have a clean source for it. I have an iBasso DX-90 with a 200GB SD card, which is plenty for my most favorite music. But the DX-90 only provides either analog line out through its own DAC (which is not bad but brighter and weaker on bass than what I'm hoping for) or S/PDIF coax. It would really nice to have an S/PDIF input option for the Jotie DAC module, but I suspect that's not on Schiit's (immediate?) roadmap. Any other suggestions, beside getting a different source (which I could, but would cost and make life more complicated)?


----------



## Allanmarcus

earnmyturns said:


> I contemplated getting a Jotie for work, given the very good reviews here and the nice form factor. But the sads is that I don't have a clean source for it. I have an iBasso DX-90 with a 200GB SD card, which is plenty for my most favorite music. But the DX-90 only provides either analog line out through its own DAC (which is not bad but brighter and weaker on bass than what I'm hoping for) or S/PDIF coax. It would really nice to have an S/PDIF input option for the Jotie DAC module, but I suspect that's not on Schiit's (immediate?) roadmap. Any other suggestions, beside getting a different source (which I could, but would cost and make life more complicated)?




What about a coax to USB converter?

Actually, after thinking about it, why not just get a warm DAC with coax in, and a bare Jot?


----------



## earnmyturns

allanmarcus said:


> What about a coax to USB converter?


 
 Thanks, any recommendations?


----------



## Allanmarcus

earnmyturns said:


> allanmarcus said:
> 
> 
> > What about a coax to USB converter?
> ...




After limited googling, there really isn't a market to convert from the arguably betear spdif to USB. You are better off using the DAC from the DAP, or getting a separate DAC and a bare Jot.


----------



## earnmyturns

allanmarcus said:


> After limited googling, there really isn't a market to convert from the arguably betear spdif to USB. You are better off using the DAC from the DAP, or getting a separate DAC and a bare Jot.


 
 Yeah, just did quite a bit of searching and nothing came up, as I feared. I'd rather not have a separate DAC for space reasons. Well, thanks, back to the drawing board...


----------



## tunes

Can someone please post their impressions of pairing this amp with the HEK and how it compares to much higher end Amps and Amp/DAC combos the likes of:

MacIntosh MHA 100 $4500 with DAC

ALO Studio 6 tube amp $ 4100

microZOTL 2.0 Tube amp $1100

CHORD DAVE $10,000


----------



## Dephezz

Correct me if i'm wrong: i have KRK RP8 G2 which are active monitors. Can i use Joti as a DAC to provide signal from my comp to my active monitors via Jotis pre amp rca/xlr outputs? Will it work this way?  Thanks in advance!


----------



## cskippy

dephezz said:


> Correct me if i'm wrong: i have KRK RP8 G2 which are active monitors. Can i use Joti as a DAC to provide signal from my comp to my active monitors via Jotis pre amp rca/xlr outputs? Will it work this way?  Thanks in advance!


 
 Yes, but remember the gain switch and volume affect headphone out as well as pre outs.  Also, plugging in headphones does not mute pres so you will have to turn off your monitors when you want to listen to headphones.


----------



## thefitz

If enough of us want a coax card (and I do), they'll make one. So let's make some noise! 

The problem with using a DAP's line out is (I believe) you lose balanced.


----------



## Dephezz

Do you think a good 50-100$ USB cable will affect the sound quality of the comp->Joti chain? I know its a digital signal, but its all about good isolation of the wire, right? Computer is a hell of a noise source, so is it worth to spend money on good usb cable with 2-3 iso layers to "maximize" Joti's SQ potential?


----------



## RickB

dephezz said:


> Do you think a good 50-100$ USB cable will affect the sound quality of the comp->Joti chain? I know its a digital signal, but its all about good isolation of the wire, right? Computer is a hell of a noise source, so is it worth to spend money on good usb cable with 2-3 iso layers to "maximize" Joti's SQ potential?


 
 No.


----------



## cskippy

dephezz said:


> Do you think a good 50-100$ USB cable will affect the sound quality of the comp->Joti chain? I know its a digital signal, but its all about good isolation of the wire, right? Computer is a hell of a noise source, so is it worth to spend money on good usb cable with 2-3 iso layers to "maximize" Joti's SQ potential?


 
 For that kind of money IMO, no.  For example you could get a better USB source such as http://ppaproduct.blogspot.tw/2013/07/audio-grade-usb-30-pcie-card.html for $130 dollars and probably get much better results.


----------



## Zachik

@jude - can you PLEASE post some notes comparing the Jot + DAC module to the Grace m9xx?
 Both cost $500. I intend to buy one and use a PC as source. SE only. Powered speakers through the RCA pre-amp outputs, and various headphones (HE400i, HD600, AT m50x, Audeze Sine) which are all SE.  No IEMs at all.
 Mostly to be used with Rock and Alternative music, as well as movie watching (on PC).
  
 Having listed above my setup and use scenarios - should I opt for the m9xx or Joty with DAC?
  
 Thanks in advance!!


----------



## thefitz

dephezz said:


> Do you think a good 50-100$ USB cable will affect the sound quality of the comp->Joti chain? I know its a digital signal, but its all about good isolation of the wire, right? Computer is a hell of a noise source, so is it worth to spend money on good usb cable with 2-3 iso layers to "maximize" Joti's SQ potential?


I think that's conceptually insane but I tend to take a lot of heat when I say that, so I guess my official response is yes! Definite improvement! More holographic! The more expensive the better!


----------



## cmabooty

dephezz said:


> Do you think a good 50-100$ USB cable will affect the sound quality of the comp->Joti chain? I know its a digital signal, but its all about good isolation of the wire, right? Computer is a hell of a noise source, so is it worth to spend money on good usb cable with 2-3 iso layers to "maximize" Joti's SQ potential?




All a good cable will do is make sure all that noise makes it to your DAC. 

Shielded cables keep out *outside* noise. If there's noise coming across the wire...


----------



## acguitar84

The combo of the Jortunheim and the mimby on my downstairs system is frying my brain! Heck, the Concero HD sounded really good through the Jortunheim too.


----------



## ColtMrFire

dephezz said:


> Do you think a good 50-100$ USB cable will affect the sound quality of the comp->Joti chain? I know its a digital signal, but its all about good isolation of the wire, right? Computer is a hell of a noise source, so is it worth to spend money on good usb cable with 2-3 iso layers to "maximize" Joti's SQ potential?




I bought a used LH labs 1G USB cable and it sounded much better than the stock one I was using (until I ditched USB entirely for SPDIF). But YMMV, it depends on which cable...experiment and come to your own conclusions.


----------



## Allanmarcus

thefitz said:


> If enough of us want a coax card (and I do), they'll make one. So let's make some noise!
> 
> The problem with using a DAP's line out is (I believe) you lose balanced.




You are confusing headphone balanced out with balanced interconnects. Two different things. Also, fully balanced internals in an amp and a DAC and balanced line level outputs are necessarily the same. A device can have line level balanced out and not be fully balanced. A device can have balanced headphone out and not be balanced. 

I wouldn't worry too much about balanced between the DAC and amp too much. A fully balanced DAC could easily have RCA interconnects and sound wonderful.


----------



## XERO1

allanmarcus said:


> I wouldn't worry too much about balanced between the DAC and amp too much. A fully balanced DAC could easily have RCA interconnects and sound wonderful.


 
  
 It's true.   99% of the benefits of a balanced headphone amp come from the amp itself being a balanced design.
  
 And if your DAC has a design that doesn't overtly favor either the SE or the balanced outputs (some do), there should be _*very little*_ (if any) difference between the sound quality of the DAC's SE and XLR outputs (other than the extra 6dB of gain the XLR's usually give you).


----------



## nerone

acguitar84 said:


> The combo of the Jortunheim and the mimby on my downstairs system is frying my brain! Heck, the Concero HD sounded really good through the Jortunheim too.


 
  
 I have a Concero HD that I'm currently using with the Vali 2, does this mean I must buy a Jodie?
  
 (please, say no...please, say no...)


----------



## acguitar84

nerone said:


> I have a Concero HD that I'm currently using with the Vali 2, does this mean I must buy a Jodie?
> 
> (please, say no...please, say no...)


 
 Ok, i have to make a disclaimer here, I've been drinking lots of beer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 That said, I've never heard either DAC, the Mimby or the Concero HD sound this good, as they have plugged into the Jotunheim. I'm having a lot of fun!! If there's anything I find as a weakness, it's the upper mid bass maybe? I'm not sure. I'm a good musician and I transcribe music a lot, but I have to admit, as an audiophile, I'm a grasshopper, lol. Kind of new to this hobby. Anyway, that said, I'm not sure what you're using as an amp right now, but I'm really enamored with the Jotunheim. It really seems to be powerful, brings music out there!  I'm an older dude now, and in my generation, car stereos were important. I remember having some 6 by 9's and had a cassette/radio combo in my car. Then, I bought a high powered Equalizer power amp, and the difference was amazing, I loved the power behind the music driving it. IMO, that's what the Jotunheim is doing. All it needs is crazy lights on either side as it jams out the music so to speak.
  
 Right now, listening to King's X. Great stuff!  I plugged in the Concero HD, but went back to the Mimby. I have to admit I really love the multibit tech schiit is doing. But, the Concero HD is a nice piece of gear too. Gosh, it seems like having power in an amp really helps out any DAC really.
  
 Also..I'm listening through speakers tonight! Not Headphones.


----------



## XERO1

acguitar84 said:


> I remember having some 6 by 9's and had a cassette/radio combo in my car. Then, I bought a high powered Equalizer power amp, and the difference was amazing, I loved the power behind the music driving it. IMO, that's what the Jotunheim is doing.


 
  
 I had a similar experience when the stock deck in my Civic died and I replaced it with an upper-end Eclipse deck. It was a literal night-and-day improvement that I honestly didn't expect.  It was like someone had magically replaced all of the speakers in my car with much better drivers.  If I had known what an improvement that deck would have made over the stock one, I would have replaced it the same day I bought the car!


----------



## acguitar84

damn, some great memories! I can still see myself driving down the highway, listening to "ah leah" by Donnie Iris, just cranking, lights on each side of the new amp/EQ pegging out, everything sounding great. Great memories!


----------



## rwelles

zachik said:


> @jude - can you PLEASE post some notes comparing the Jot + DAC module to the Grace m9xx?
> Both cost $500. I intend to buy one and use a PC as source. SE only. Powered speakers through the RCA pre-amp outputs, and various headphones (HE400i, HD600, AT m50x, Audeze Sine) which are all SE.  No IEMs at all.
> Mostly to be used with Rock and Alternative music, as well as movie watching (on PC).
> 
> ...


 

 First off, I ain't no @jude so he cares to chime in, I humbly step aside. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I've just moved from the m9XX to the Jodie. imo (very humbly!!), the DAC is at least as good as the Grace. But the amp section is much, much better! I'd vote that you get the Jodie and upgrade the DAC as your wallet (and ears) allow. hope that helps.


----------



## scottcocoabeach

limu shirin said:


> HEy everyone, any background hiss with IEMs or sensetive cans with jotunheim?


 
 I had a chance to test this a little further tonight. I hooked up my Gumby to the balanced and singled ended connections and also connected the internal DAC so I could listen to all the inputs at the same time. My 64 Audio U3's seem to pick up quite a bit of noise on some of my other AMPs. With the Jotenheim I don't hear any noise with the volume all the way down or when listening to music. I paused the music and then turned the volume up and was able to hear some noise around 11am on the dial. Since that would blow my ears out with music playing, I would say that noise with IEM's (at least the 2 I have tested) is not an issue. I think this is a very good AMP for sensitive IEM's. With my 64 Audio U6's I didn't get noise (again with MUSIC PAUSED) until around 12 on the dial. Right now I am listening to them around 8 on the dial to give you an idea of how far I am on the dial from getting anything near close to where I would start to hear amp noise.
  
 I would caution anyone to be very careful when checking this as you could risk serious damage to your hearing and IEM'/ headphones ever turning the dial up this high, please note again my source was paused. Even with my HD800's it's amazing how little I have to spin the volume dial.
  
 I will also mention that I had just purchased the Magni 2 Uber ,just before the announcement and although I didn't have noise with my IEM's it wasn't a fit do to channel imbalance at the listening levels I wanted and turning it up enough to get rid of the balance issues would have made it way too loud. I don't have that issue with the Jodie.


----------



## Allanmarcus

acguitar84 said:


> nerone said:
> 
> 
> > I have a Concero HD that I'm currently using with the Vali 2, does this mean I must buy a Jodie?
> ...




Maybe the next Schiit item should be the Schiit Sahti


----------



## cskippy

scottcocoabeach said:


> I had a chance to test this a little further tonight. I hooked up my Gumby to the balanced and singled ended connections and also connected the internal DAC so I could listen to all the inputs at the same time. My 64 Audio U3's seem to pick up quite a bit of noise on some of my other AMPs. With the Jotenheim I don't hear any noise with the volume all the way down or when listening to music. I paused the music and then turned the volume up and was able to hear some noise around 11am on the dial. Since that would blow my ears out with music playing, I would say that noise with IEM's (at least the 2 I have tested) is not an issue. I think this is a very good AMP for sensitive IEM's. With my 64 Audio U6's I didn't get noise (again with MUSIC PAUSED) until around 12 on the dial. Right now I am listening to them around 8 on the dial to give you an idea of how far I am on the dial from getting anything near close to where I would start to hear amp noise.
> 
> I would caution anyone to be very careful when checking this as you could risk serious damage to your hearing and IEM'/ headphones ever turning the dial up this high, please note again my source was paused. Even with my HD800's it's amazing how little I have to spin the volume dial.
> 
> I will also mention that I had just purchased the Magni 2 Uber ,just before the announcement and although I didn't have noise with my IEM's it wasn't a fit do to channel imbalance at the listening levels I wanted and turning it up enough to get rid of the balance issues would have made it way too loud. I don't have that issue with the Jodie.


 
 This is what I wanted to hear.  I have a Jodie coming in and use 64 Audio U8 and have been using the UE line buffer as every amp I've tried ( Carbon, 10ES2, Ember) all give varying degrees of amp noise.


----------



## scottcocoabeach

I just wanted to mention that I wouldn't get too stressed out about Schiit not having a relatively low cost Multibit _Balanced_ DAC (although I consider the Gumby a *massive bargain!*). The Gumby single ended in sounds significantly better than the built in DAC which is fully balanced. I would expect any of the Multibit DAC's connected single ended to outperform the DAC add-on option (although I have only personally listened to the Gumby so far). I'm sure others will compare the Bimby and Mimby to the add-on DAC option listening balanced.
  
 I will say the Gumby Balanced in is an improvement over SE although the volume difference can make it a little hard to judge, as I have to spin the dial a bit when switching and using an SPL in between would take too long between comparisons. I definitely hear an improvement with balanced in from the Gumby versus singled ended in, which I would expect, and should be the case.
  
 So Gumby Balanced In > Gumby SE In (and I suspect other Multibit Schiit DACs) > JOT DAC option Balanced In
  
 It's really not all about SE or Balanced connections, the quality of the DAC itself will be a big factor in what reaches your ears.
  
 Comparisons were done using HD800 Balanced with Super Dupont mod and  Norne Audio Draug 2 cable.
  
 *All that being said I consider the JOT DAC option a bargain for the money in _very early_ listening impressions. For those on a budget it's a great option until you can save up to move to a Multibit DAC.


----------



## nerone

acguitar84 said:


> Ok, i have to make a disclaimer here, I've been drinking lots of beer
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Oh, that's not good at all...my wallet is not happy right now.
  
 The Concero I use at work, at home I have a Mytek 192-DSD, which to me is even better than the Concero, and what you said makes me think even more about getting a Jodie.
 At home I use the Mytek connected to a Musical Fidelity M1HPAp, that also serves as a preamp for my Musical Fidelity M6i, which I also use to drive headphones (some resistors needed, but works). And the M6i is even better than the M1HPAp.
  
 Regarding listening to speakers, did you have any problems with it? I remember reading that someone had some clicks or pops while using it as a preamp, if I recall correctly the balanced outputs were being used and the problems occurred while changing sources. But I'm also curious about turn on thump while using speakers, as I had similar problems with the Vali 2 and Valhalla 2.
  
 I also like a lot to hear music while driving, sometimes I just went driving with no other purpose than listen to music. This was helped by the fact that I had a great Pioneer-Xtant-Morel setup at the car...Too bat it doesn't fit the new car anymore.


----------



## scottcocoabeach

cskippy said:


> This is what I wanted to hear.  I have a Jodie coming in and use 64 Audio U8 and have been using the UE line buffer as every amp I've tried ( Carbon, 10ES2, Ember) all give varying degrees of amp noise.


 
  
 This is one of the main reasons I purchased the Jodie as I get amp noise from my A12's (currently back for a refit) with my Violectric V281 and Lyr 2 (and the U3's) but surprisingly it's not a problem with the U6's on the V281. I'll have my A12's back late next week and then will give them a try with the Jodie, but as the U3's are noisier than the A12's I'm expecting them to fine with it.
  
 *As nice as the Jodie is it will not be displacing my V281  - It's background is completely silent with all my full size headphones and it's excellent with the U6's as well.
 (Jodie is just adding another option and something that I think will work well for my sensitive IEM's, especially when listening to music with quiet passages). 
  
 I also tried the Buffer Jack and while it took care of the noise, it also seemed to have a slightly negative impact on sound quality. iFi may have a solution for this coming out, and if so I may be able to move my Jodie to another listening location for work.


----------



## acguitar84

scottcocoabeach said:


> This is one of the main reasons I purchased the Jodie as I get amp noise from my A12's (currently back for a refit) with my Violectric V281 and Lyr 2 (and the U3's) but surprisingly it's not a problem with the U6's on the V281. I'll have my A12's back late next week and then will give them a try with the Jodie, but as the U3's are noisier than the A12's I'm expecting them to fine with it.
> 
> *As nice as the Jodie is it will not be displacing my V281  - It's background is completely silent with all my full size headphones and it's excellent with the U6's as well.
> (Jodie is just adding another option and something that I think will work well for my sensitive IEM's, especially when listening to music with quiet passages).
> ...


 
 I"ve really been interested in a V281. I really wish I could try one with my setups. But at 2K it's kind out out of the realm of possibility for now. That said, the Jotunheim is really kicking ass. I wish I could have a shootout with the v281. Gosh.


----------



## scottcocoabeach

nerone said:


> Oh, that's not good at all...my wallet is not happy right now.
> 
> Regarding listening to speakers, did you have any problems with it? I remember reading that someone had some clicks or pops while using it as a preamp, if I recall correctly the balanced outputs were being used and the problems occurred while changing sources. But I'm also curious about turn on thump while using speakers, as I had similar problems with the Vali 2 and Valhalla 2.


 
  
 I don't think the minor pops/clicks when switching input source will be a problem. I haven't tried it with external monitors but with headphones it's not very noticeable at all and I wouldn't anticipate it being an issue for anyone.
  
 The main thing to remember is not to crank up the volume when turning on the Jodie until it has fully started, it's definitely not instant.


----------



## Sanlitun

Just trying to get a grip on the Pivot Point jargon, is this a current domain amp like the Questyle?


Well ok. Ordered it out of curiosity.


----------



## nerone

scottcocoabeach said:


> I don't think the minor pops/clicks when switching input source will be a problem. I haven't tried it with external monitors but with headphones it's not very noticeable at all and I wouldn't anticipate it being an issue for anyone.
> 
> The main thing to remember is not to crank up the volume when turning on the Jodie until it has fully started, it's definitely not instant.



The pops And thump problems I had only affected speakers. I had no issues while using only headphones. 
This is one thing I love about the Musical Fidelity M1HPAp, I can turn it on with volume up and the power amp already on and I have absolutely no pop or thump. I know this is something one should never do, but sometimes I forgot to turn the speaker amp off and just turned the headphone amp/pre on. 
With the Vali 2 I had to be extra careful, but I had two or three times of fear during start up. The Valhalla presented pops while already on for some time with no music reproduction, and this was sad as I really liked it's performance as a preamplifier.


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

Having heard the Momby and Bimby compared against the internal DAC, I agree that the multibit implementation is going to make a bigger difference in the overall sound quality than the single factor of balanced versus single ended.


----------



## Moosecraft

Which one did you prefer and what are the pros and cons between them? @Merrick
Currently deciding between upgradingy bifrost or buying Mombi.


----------



## sheldaze

dglow said:


> Any Ragnarok owners out there planning to order or otherwise spend time with a Jot? Would love to hear how the two compare.


 
 My opinion - Ragnarok sounds ever so slightly polite in comparison to the Jotunheim, and this using the HE-1000 headphones and Yggdrasil as source. It feels like there is something getting between me and the Yggdrasil source sound when playing through the Rag. Jot does not have this issue, and the sound is just full-impact Yggy.


----------



## Ancipital

acguitar84 said:


> Ok, i have to make a disclaimer here, I've been drinking lots of beer
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  1) Don't drink and post, you maniac! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 2) Ok, this is a stupid question, but can you get away with stacking the Mimby on top of the Jotu, as long as you stay clear of any vents? I know it sounds trivial, but some of us are trivial people.. Could you give it a go, and maybe report back if temps were OK, and everything was happy? A picture or two would really help too, as I can't visualise it..
  
 (Obviously the DAC is normally underneath, but it wouldn't work out in this case.. and I do love a neat stack!)


----------



## Delayeed

Any comparisons vs Chord Mojo? Similiar price and all.


----------



## Letmebefrank

ancipital said:


> 1) Don't drink and post, you maniac! :eek:
> 
> 2) Ok, this is a stupid question, but can you get away with stacking the Mimby on top of the Jotu, as long as you stay clear of any vents? I know it sounds trivial, but some of us are trivial people.. Could you give it a go, and maybe report back if temps were OK, and everything was happy? A picture or two would really help too, as I can't visualise it..
> 
> (Obviously the DAC is normally underneath, but it wouldn't work out in this case.. and I do love a neat stack!)




Just for grins I stacked the Momby on top of the Jodie when I first got it, and while it looked ok and was only over the vent by about 1/4 inch, with the SYS in there to switch between the Jodie and my speakers it was too tall to fit under my monitor, and it looked silly with 2 small boxes on top. With just the Momby it looked fine though.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Mutech MC 1.2
http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/HW/SPDIF-USB.htm
Cheers


earnmyturns said:


> Thanks, any recommendations?


----------



## rsnblmn

moosecraft said:


> Which one did you prefer and what are the pros and cons between them? @Merrick
> Currently deciding between upgradingy bifrost or buying Mombi.


 
  
 My $0.02 - If you already have a Bifrost, I don't see any advantage to buying Mimby over doing the multibit upgrade. All the multibit parts are going to be the same, but the Bifrost has a better power situation since there's more room to work with.
  
 Unless you want to downsize and have a smaller footprint on the desk or you want to sell the Bifrost to fund the Mimby purchase and potentially save a little money, I don't really see any reason not to upgrade the Bifrost.  (Plus, you'd retain the option to upgrade the Bifrost again down the line if @Baldr comes up with another innovation for it.)


----------



## Ancipital

letmebefrank said:


> Just for grins I stacked the Momby on top of the Jodie when I first got it, and while it looked ok and was only over the vent by about 1/4 inch, with the SYS in there to switch between the Jodie and my speakers it was too tall to fit under my monitor, and it looked silly with 2 small boxes on top. With just the Momby it looked fine though.


 
  
 Darnit, pictures!


----------



## Letmebefrank

ancipital said:


> Darnit, pictures!


 
  
 Using Modi 2U for pics, dont feel like moving the Momby lol


----------



## cmabooty

Can you show a pic of the bottom of the Jot? Want to see the new feet and how the bottom is finished. 

Thanks.


----------



## Letmebefrank

cmabooty said:


> Can you show a pic of the bottom of the Jot? Want to see the new feet and how the bottom is finished.
> 
> Thanks.


----------



## rwelles

> Any comparisons vs Chord Mojo? Similiar price and all.


 
 I have both. The Mojo DAC is miles ahead of the Jodie DAC module. The Mojo has a very, very clean SE output that drives most hp's quite well. If you care about DSD, Mojo will and Jodie won't.
  
 The Jodie offers much greater flexibility in terms of connections and has a LOT more power. In order to get close to the Mojo DAC, you would need at least a Bimby. Jodie and Bimby will run you $1,000; Mojo is $600.
  
 Obviously, Mojo is highly portable; Jodie not so much...
  
 hope that helps you, @Delayeed .


----------



## Ancipital

letmebefrank said:


> Using Modi 2U for pics, dont feel like moving the Momby lol


 
  
 Hah, thanks for that, couldn't visualise it, for some reason.


----------



## Delayeed

rwelles said:


> I have both. The Mojo DAC is miles ahead of the Jodie DAC module. The Mojo has a very, very clean SE output that drives most hp's quite well. If you care about DSD, Mojo will and Jodie won't.
> 
> The Jodie offers much greater flexibility in terms of connections and has a LOT more power. In order to get close to the Mojo DAC, you would need at least a Bimby. Jodie and Bimby will run you $1,000; Mojo is $600.
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you! I guess I'll keep my Mojo until I can afford something way better.


----------



## rwelles

delayeed said:


> Thank you! I guess I'll keep my Mojo until I can afford something way better.


 

 Yeah, you don't want to lose your mojo. Just ask Austin!


----------



## ColtMrFire

rwelles said:


> I have both. The Mojo DAC is miles ahead of the Jodie DAC module. The Mojo has a very, very clean SE output that drives most hp's quite well. If you care about DSD, Mojo will and Jodie won't.
> 
> The Jodie offers much greater flexibility in terms of connections and has a LOT more power. In order to get close to the Mojo DAC, you would need at least a Bimby. Jodie and Bimby will run you $1,000; Mojo is $600.
> 
> ...




I have read some A/B between Mimby and Bimby and people can't really tell much difference (with some slightly preferring Mimby). If one wants to save money they can grab a Mimby/Jodie combo for $650 and have a damn fine end game setup.


----------



## MWSVette

rsnblmn said:


> My $0.02 - If you already have a Bifrost, I don't see any advantage to buying Momby over doing the multibit upgrade. All the multibit parts are going to be the same, but the Bifrost has a better power situation since there's more room to work with.
> 
> Unless you want to downsize and have a smaller footprint on the desk or you want to sell the Bifrost to fund the Momby purchase and potentially save a little money, I don't really see any reason not to upgrade the Bifrost.  (Plus, you'd retain the option to upgrade the Bifrost again down the line if @Baldr comes up with another innovation for it.)


 
  
  
 I would agree. Upgrade the Bifrost...


----------



## Allanmarcus

rsnblmn said:


> moosecraft said:
> 
> 
> > Which one did you prefer and what are the pros and cons between them? @Merrick
> ...




The difference is money. Selling the Bigfoot and buying a mimby (it's mimby, folks) is more of a swap. Buying the MB upgrade is a $250 additional expense.


----------



## cmabooty

Awesome! Thank you.

@letmebefrank


----------



## MWSVette

allanmarcus said:


> The difference is money. Selling the Bigfoot and buying a mimby (it's mimby, folks) is more of a swap. Buying the MB upgrade is a $250 additional expense.


 
  
  
 It may be an additional expense, however the Biforst is still fully upgrade-able.  And when Schiit has their next breakthrough may it be 3rd gen USB or possibly an even better multibit board you can upgrade.  And it still has a far better power supply.  Much better than any wall wart.
  
 And in the end Mimby will still be just another disposable DAC when technology moves on...


----------



## jfoxvol

Lots of gear changes coming in my different setups.  I wanted to give a few impressions of the amp before too many variables changed.  The amp out of the box sounded strident.  I let it cook overnight and came back the next morning.  Better.  Something still strange.  I think this amp is just really revealing of upstream source.  I took my Bimby and threw in a Wyrd.  There.  Much better.  One thing I found again is my HD600 and HD650 really (to me) sound better single ended.  I had that experience with several other amps.  I think perhaps the brute force this amp unleashes may push the already lush mids and upper bass too forward on some recordings.  Just my two cents.  Both are still good.  That said, I'm very impressed with this amp.  I'll be bringing my Yggy back into the office and out of my speaker system to see how much this amp scales with improved sources.  So far, I've tried all my cans in my list.  Each one of them sounded fantastic.  So, right now with single ended in and out, I've got plenty of juice to power all my SE cans.


----------



## cmabooty

mwsvette said:


> It may be an additional expense, however the Biforst is still fully upgrade-able.  And when Schiit has their next breakthrough may it be 3rd gen USB or possibly an even better multibit board you can upgrade.  And it still has a far better power supply.  Much better than any wall wart.
> 
> And in the end Mimby will still be just another disposable DAC when technology moves on...




It's just as disposable as the old Bifrost boards...


----------



## Allanmarcus

jfoxvol said:


> Lots of gear changes coming in my different setups.  I wanted to give a few impressions of the amp before too many variables changed.  The amp out of the box sounded strident.  I let it cook overnight and came back the next morning.  Better.  Something still strange.  I think this amp is just really revealing of upstream source.  I took my Bimby and threw in a Wyrd.  There.  Much better.  One thing I found again is my HD600 and HD650 really (to me) sound better single ended.  I had that experience with several other amps.  I think perhaps the brute force this amp unleashes may push the already lush mids and upper bass too forward on some recordings.  Just my two cents.  Both are still good.  That said, I'm very impressed with this amp.  I'll be bringing my Yggy back into the office and out of my speaker system to see how much this amp scales with improved sources.  So far, I've tried all my cans in my list.  Each one of them sounded fantastic.  So, right now with single ended in and out, I've got plenty of juice to power all my SE cans.


 

 What amp did you use before? Comparisons are always welcome.


----------



## jfoxvol

allanmarcus said:


> What amp did you use before? Comparisons are always welcome.


 
 Primarily the Cavalli LC at home.  I try to avoid comparisons since I swap gear often depending on mood and musical style.  What I may find minor differences in enjoyment/sound may be a dealbreaker for someone else, and vice versa.  The LC seemed probably to be the closest in terms or price and capability on the amp side (e.g. ~$500 bucks, balanced, reasonably powerful, relatively compatible with most headphones).  The LC is more laid back.  Different house sound than Schiit.  I enjoy both.  See my amp list on my profile.  I may line this amp up to one or two others tomorrow and use the Yggy to get a more clear picture of what the amps are doing.  It depends on how much time I get to enjoy on Labor Day.  If there's one in particular, let me know.  I'll try to accommodate if possible.


----------



## sheldaze

jfoxvol said:


> Lots of gear changes coming in my different setups.  I wanted to give a few impressions of the amp before too many variables changed.  The amp out of the box sounded strident.  I let it cook overnight and came back the next morning.  Better.  Something still strange.  I think this amp is just really revealing of upstream source.  I took my Bimby and threw in a Wyrd.  There.  Much better.  One thing I found again is my HD600 and HD650 really (to me) sound better single ended.  I had that experience with several other amps.  I think perhaps the brute force this amp unleashes may push the already lush mids and upper bass too forward on some recordings.  Just my two cents.  Both are still good.  That said, I'm very impressed with this amp.  I'll be bringing my Yggy back into the office and out of my speaker system to see how much this amp scales with improved sources.  So far, I've tried all my cans in my list.  Each one of them sounded fantastic.  So, right now with single ended in and out, I've got plenty of juice to power all my SE cans.


 
 I started a little lower than you, but was running Wyrd into my Mimby. Definitely try the Yggy. It's where I ended. And I agree, the revealing nature of this amplifier is such that better input provides better output. And oh...the output from the Yggy is oh so pleasurable through the Jodie.


----------



## jfoxvol

sheldaze said:


> I started a little lower than you, but was running Wyrd into my Mimby. Definitely try the Yggy. It's where I ended. And I agree, the revealing nature of this amplifier is such that better input provides better output. And oh...the output from the Yggy is oh so pleasurable through the Jodie.


 
 Excellent.  I gotta go find my cable ties now.  I use the Mimby/Wyrd combo at work to feed a Vali2.  Great sound into PM3s for just rocking out while I work.  I am ready to hook the Yggy up using balanced input.  I think the output power jumps up a sconce.


----------



## jfoxvol

@Allanmarcus


----------



## jfoxvol

jfoxvol said:


> Question for other folks out in the field with their Jotis: Is there a noticeable amount of noise floor increase as you raise the volume? With some of the cans I'm using, I can hear quite a bit as I roll up the volume. One caveat. I have dirty power in my apartment. I suspect a bad ground somewhere. It may just be attributed to that. I'm not sure. I haven't used at the office yet. Perhaps this topology might be more sensitive to that. I do recall the original Mjolnir didn't enjoy being on circuits with a dimmer switch colocated. That aside, the sound quality is pretty darn good.



Update and also someone else please chime in if you've experienced similar.  When switching to a balanced input from the Yggy versus the BifrostMB SE, the noise absolutely disappeared.  Like gone gone.  So, I'm not sure what the cause was.  Perhaps something in the input stage.  Anyway, maybe Jason has some idea.  Perhaps just good common mode rejection on my crap power?


----------



## ColtMrFire

mwsvette said:


> It may be an additional expense, however the Biforst is still fully upgrade-able.  And when Schiit has their next breakthrough may it be 3rd gen USB or possibly an even better multibit board you can upgrade.  And it still has a far better power supply.  Much better than any wall wart.
> 
> And in the end Mimby will still be just another disposable DAC when technology moves on...




I think calling a DAC, that by all accounts is on the same level as Bimby at half the price, "disposable", is going a bit too far. Mimby is going to be relevant for a very long time. Multibit goodness for the masses who don't want to drop major coin on gear. Its a breakthrough product.


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

mwsvette said:


> It may be an additional expense, however the Biforst is still fully upgrade-able.  And when Schiit has their next breakthrough may it be 3rd gen USB or possibly an even better multibit board you can upgrade.  And it still has a far better power supply.  Much better than any wall wart.
> 
> And in the end Mimby will still be just another disposable DAC when technology moves on...




Some people aren't always looking for the next piece of gear to devour. Some people want something that sounds great at an affordable price and they just want it to work. The Momby delivers all of that in spades. You make it sound like it's a BIC razor.

The Momby sounds amazing with the Jotunheim. It will sound amazing with the Jotunheim a year from now, two years from now, even ten whole years from now!


----------



## earnmyturns

guidostrunk said:


> Mutech MC 1.2
> http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/HW/SPDIF-USB.htm
> Cheers


 
 Thanks, unfortunately it's way more box than I want for that particular location, and for that price I might as well get the Jodie without built-in DAC and a Mimby (I like the multibit sound better anyway, only reason to get the Jodie with built-in DAC would be to save space).


----------



## dglow

sheldaze said:


> dglow said:
> 
> 
> > Any Ragnarok owners out there planning to order or otherwise spend time with a Jot? Would love to hear how the two compare.
> ...




Thank you, sheldaze, that's highly interesting. I'm inclined to order a Jotie and have a listen for myself. 

Tell me, with which gain settings did you compare the amps?


----------



## sheldaze

dglow said:


> Thank you, sheldaze, that's highly interesting. I'm inclined to order a Jotie and have a listen for myself.
> 
> Tell me, with which gain settings did you compare the amps?


 
Low High gain on Jodie (ha - I like my ears, thank you!) and medium on Rag, which is just what I've always used for HE-1000.
  
 Because there was so much power available on low gain, I figured high gain would be too much. This is not the case!
 I actually prefer the high gain, by far, through the HE-1000. My mistake for not trying this sooner.


----------



## Maxx134

sheldaze said:


> dglow said:
> 
> 
> > Any Ragnarok owners out there planning to order or otherwise spend time with a Jot? Would love to hear how the two compare.
> ...



I never did like the Rag it is a lotta hype and not able to convey anything impressive except bass punch to me..

Now I just come back from listening to the yggy / Jotunheim combo with the HEK, Ether Flow, HD800 & HD650.

The Jotunheim hits a home run.(!)

Headphone Improvements are:
HD650 = increased dynamics

HD800 = increased bass and presence

Ether Flow = increase fluid detailing

HEK = EXPLOSIVE EFFORTLESS SOUND. 

The greatest change in headphone was the HEK.

The HEK + Jotunheim is a match made in heaven..

I assume it is because the HEK have the lowest impedance of the bunch, so the Jotunheim just gives it all the power it could possibly require..

The sound of this Jotunheim is pretty amazing as all detail and good soundstage came across effortlessly and to my biased memory this unit should CRUSH the Ragnorok and anything up to $1k unless it's tube gear, and that is saying alot.

I am a tube head, and for me to like ANY sold state amp is almost an impossibility for me.
This amp breaks that barrier and will be my next purchase.

I read the last few pages and I see a lot of posts seem to shy away from stating just how good this amp is .
So I won't name the competition,
But *redacted* this Jotunheim will be a game changer..

In time with more reviews,
 this post will not sound as fantastic as it does right now..
But I stand by my impressions.
Jotunheim will be a standard for amps to compare to..


----------



## lenroot77

maxx134 said:


> I never did like the Rag it is a lotta hype and not able to convey anything impressive except bass punch to me..
> 
> Now I just come back from listening to the yggy / Jotunheim combo with the HEK, Ether Flow, HD800 & HD650.
> 
> ...




Can we get your impressions without the use of a 2300 dollar Dac?


----------



## Maxx134

Nope!
Lol!
There was no other DAC.

But the use of a balanced DAC like yggy made it sing


----------



## MattTCG

maxx134 said:


> Nope!
> Lol!
> There was no other DAC.
> 
> But the use of a balanced DAC like yggy made it sing


 
  
 With gumby I have very similar findings to Maxx.


----------



## Maxx134

I forgot to add that the 650 were moded.

For those that have tight budget there is good news..

With the Jotunheim, I felt the HD650 benefited the most because the 650 sounded much more controlled on the lower spectrum and had a deep tight bass..

I would say the 650 and the HEK benefitted most in low end punch and discernable in instrument separation, 
Followed by the Flow and HD800 .

The Flow was really supple in breath and bass presentation.
The fullness of bass that the Flow has on other amps,
 was replaced with a really nice supple controlled bass breath you could sense, which also the HEK had.

The 650 also conveyed nice controlled bass extension which was really SO impressive it made my HD800 anemic .

Usually I do not like the 650 because it always came across in the past as a dark, thick , or a bit dull headphone to me.
But thru the Jotunheim, it came across as very natural, almost neutral(!) 
My Second fave of the bunch!

As for the HD800
The increased treble presence and lighter, quicker bass made it less neutral, and less powerful sounding than the others,
And made the HD800 the last choice here...

Not because it was stock, as my HD800 has ALL the mods and more than any other I know or ever read, but I still not completely happy with it.
The 800 is an never ending work in progress that in the end needs amp matching.
So it was still the last pick here..

The point is that the Jotunheim has great authority over all these headphones and makes all of them climb higher than you would imagine.
I'm not saying it is the best amp,
But it has the clarity, power, and control of a high end amp.


----------



## franzdom

So...Jot 
  
 or Lyr2 with great tubes?


----------



## zeissiez

Great to hear that the Jotty is a great match for HE1000. My quibble about the Ragnarok is that it is a bit short in transparency. The HE1000 with the right setup is capable of amazing transparency.


----------



## iamxLn

franzdom said:


> So...Jot
> 
> or Lyr2 with great tubes?


 
 waiting for this review also.


----------



## iamxLn

maxx134 said:


> I never did like the Rag it is a lotta hype and not able to convey anything impressive except bass punch to me..
> 
> Now I just come back from listening to the yggy / Jotunheim combo with the HEK, Ether Flow, HD800 & HD650.
> 
> ...


 
 did you test balanced out on all of these headphones? or just SE?


----------



## Letmebefrank

So after a couple days with the Jody I would like to give some more impressions.
  
 Windows 10 > Foobar2k > USB > Modi Multibit > SYS > Jotunheim > Custom Balanced Senn Cable > HD650
  
 HOLY SMOKES this amp just keeps getting better the more I listen to it. YYZ is one of my favorite songs to check gear with, as the frequency and dynamic range is pretty amazing. Geddy Lees bass guitar, from start to end, might as well have been its own channel in a surround sound system, it was that distinct from the rest of the track. I've never heard songs with such clarity and separation before. That's really why I love this amp so much. I'm assuming that most of this is the work of the Modi Multibit, and the Jody allowing it to shine through with amazing detail.
  
 The soundstage seems massive, and the way each instrument is presented so clearly from everything else just adds to that feeling of air.
  
 Aside: The last few days I have been having an issue where my audio would sometimes have a small blip every few minutes. I didn't have this problem until I installed Equalizer APO, and even after uninstalling it the issue still persisted so I'm honestly not sure what the problem is/was. Messing with the buffer in foobar didnt help. Wasapi and ASIO made it a bit better but during the day I like to switch between videos and music regularly so those weren't working for me. Anyway last night I installed the anniversary update to windows 10 and BAM! no more problems.


----------



## earnmyturns

letmebefrank said:


> The soundstage seems massive, and the way each instrument is presented so clearly from everything else just adds to that feeling of air.


 
 If you guys keep going like this I'll have to order a Jodie even though I've had a Liquid Carbon v2 on order since April. Let them fight it out for control of my Bimby and Ether C Flow


----------



## bobbyg1983

Great news, loving all of the impressions with Senn HD650. Was on the fence of Joti vs Valhalla 2 to use exclusively with HD650, previously leaning towards V2 as the HD650s tend to respond well to tubes, but now I'm leaning back towards getting the Joti to use with my Modi 2 Uber (next: upgrade to Multibit). 

Alternatively, considering getting Chord Mojo. Obviously different flavor and suits different usage scenarios, but a bit torn ... I can probably live with Dragonfly Black for mobile (maybe pick up Oppo PM3 for on the go) and go with Mimby->Joti->HD650 for home use.


----------



## Allanmarcus

I propose JoMimby (Yo-Mimby) as the official designation of that combination


----------



## slex

Hmm Jodie crush Ragie?Anyone have other to compare like Burson Conductor, Audiogd discrete amps etc.....?


----------



## MWSVette

The Jotunheim, Bimby and Lyr,


----------



## ColtMrFire

maxx134 said:


> I forgot to add that the 650 were moded.
> 
> For those that have tight budget there is good news..
> 
> ...




Thanks for your insightful review. I am specifically wondering how the Jot handles cans with treble spikes since its solid state. You mentioned your HD800 is modded. I have the Beyer T90, one of the most treble intense cans on the market (but still an amazing HP), and in considering buying the Jot, I need to be sure it doesn't exaggerate the negative treble qualities in these kinds of cans. I recently bought a Valhalla2/Mimby and its incredible but if I can have a better amp for $50 more, I am seriously going to consider it.

Or if anyone else who's tried the Jot with treble happy cans could chime in, I'd appreciate it.


----------



## slex

How about a wryd2 module with galvanic isolation built into jodie? Possible? Save space and i believe the power supply of jodie is very quiet too for it.

I willing to buy that if it superseded Regen,itona etc..... It time for wyrd 2!!!


----------



## bigro

nerone said:


> The pops And thump problems I had only affected speakers. I had no issues while using only headphones.
> This is one thing I love about the Musical Fidelity M1HPAp, I can turn it on with volume up and the power amp already on and I have absolutely no pop or thump. I know this is something one should never do, but sometimes I forgot to turn the speaker amp off and just turned the headphone amp/pre on.
> With the Vali 2 I had to be extra careful, but I had two or three times of fear during start up. The Valhalla presented pops while already on for some time with no music reproduction, and this was sad as I really liked it's performance as a preamplifier.


 
  
 I use a Valhalla 2 and use it as a PreAmp. First With Monitors but now with a Power Amp and passive Speakers. No popping once It is on. My power amp is on with in a minute of turning on the Valhalla 2 and Its silent by then. Have you tried swapping the tubes out? Our contacted Schiit, That's not normal.   I Usually Power on all sources and pre amp before the power amp, So I never hear any of the initial popping. (Force Of habit of at least 25+ years of using 2 channel gear I guess)


----------



## MattTCG

slex said:


> How about a wryd2 module with galvanic isolation built into jodie? Possible? Save space and i believe the power supply of jodie is very quiet too for it.
> 
> I willing to buy that if it superseded Regen,itona etc..... It time for wyrd 2!!!


 
  
 Wyrd 2? Did I miss a memo?


coltmrfire said:


> Thanks for your insightful review. I am specifically wondering how the Jot handles cans with treble spikes since its solid state. You mentioned your HD800 is modded. I have the Beyer T90, one of the most treble intense cans on the market (but still an amazing HP), and in considering buying the Jot, I need to be sure it doesn't exaggerate the negative treble qualities in these kinds of cans. I recently bought a Valhalla2/Mimby and its incredible but if I can have a better amp for $50 more, I am seriously going to consider it.
> 
> Or if anyone else who's tried the Jot with treble happy cans could chime in, I'd appreciate it.


 
  
 Jodie shares qualities of much more expensive solid state amps. It has the ability to present music with refinement without digital glare and harshness. I've been testing it with hd800 which I would consider "treble happy." Jodie passes the test exceptionally well.


----------



## ColtMrFire

matttcg said:


> Wyrd 2? Did I miss a memo?
> 
> Jodie shares qualities of much more expensive solid state amps. It has the ability to present music with refinement without digital glare and harshness. I've been testing it with hd800 which I would consider "treble happy." Jodie passes the test exceptionally well.




Wonderful to hear, thanks!

Now all I need are some Jot/Valhalla2 comparisons.


----------



## Tuneslover

coltmrfire said:


> I bought a used LH labs 1G USB cable and it sounded much better than the stock one I was using (until I ditched USB entirely for SPDIF). But YMMV, it depends on which cable...experiment and come to your own conclusions.




I purchased an expensive Audioquest Carbon USB cable a few years ago because I thought a good quality cable was necessary. I had it connected from an iMac into an original Modi for 3 years or so and it did indeed sound good with absolutely no noise or interference issues necessitating something like a Wyrd. I recently purchased a Modi Multibit and thought "Ah, now I can try a Toslink cable". So I used a decent quality Audioquest one I had laying around and found both cables sound identical. I'll keep listening with the Toslink as the primary input but also do some occasional comparisons.


----------



## Tuneslover

scottcocoabeach said:


> I don't think the minor pops/clicks when switching input source will be a problem. I haven't tried it with external monitors but with headphones it's not very noticeable at all and I wouldn't anticipate it being an issue for anyone.
> 
> The main thing to remember is not to crank up the volume when turning on the Jodie until it has fully started, it's definitely not instant.




Yeah the pop sound whenever turning on my Vali2 or Magni2Ü is a hassle.


----------



## Cet1

> Modi Multibit > SYS > Jotunheim


 
  


> I propose JoMimby (Yo-Mimby) as the official designation of that combination


 
  
 So has anyone compared this multibit DAC input VS the DAC available within the Jotunheim?  I know you have two pieces of equipment with the Modi and Jodi, but does it sound noticeably better that the Jodi with the DAC within.  Looks to be about the same total price


----------



## leafy7382

After reading all the Schiit here, I went to the dealer in Taipei to listen to the various Schiit available. They paired HD800s with the Rag and it was really really enjoyable. Even with the 800, there is not too much of the harsh high. So after pondering over the weekend, I finally ordered my own Jotunheim to pair with my HD650 at the office. Right now I run Apogee Groove directly from my MBP to drive the 650, which is more than 12 years old.
  
 Looking forward to run the Jotunheim from my MBP to drive the 650!


----------



## FLTWS

bigro said:


> I use a Valhalla 2 and use it as a PreAmp. First With Monitors but now with a Power Amp and passive Speakers. No popping once It is on. My power amp is on with in a minute of turning on the Valhalla 2 and Its silent by then. Have you tried swapping the tubes out? Our contacted Schiit, That's not normal.   I Usually Power on all sources and pre amp before the power amp, So I never hear any of the initial popping. (Force Of habit of at least 25+ years of using 2 channel gear I guess)


 

 That's a good habit, can't imagine why anyone would do it differently.


----------



## nerone

bigro said:


> I use a Valhalla 2 and use it as a PreAmp. First With Monitors but now with a Power Amp and passive Speakers. No popping once It is on. My power amp is on with in a minute of turning on the Valhalla 2 and Its silent by then. Have you tried swapping the tubes out? Our contacted Schiit, That's not normal.   I Usually Power on all sources and pre amp before the power amp, So I never hear any of the initial popping. (Force Of habit of at least 25+ years of using 2 channel gear I guess)


 

 I didn't swap tubes as I didn't have another set to try. I did contact schiit about the issue and they said that some pops were normal.
 After one or two mistakes I started to turn my system in from dac -> Valhalla -> power amp, but as I started hearing pops and even seeing the woofers excursion during no music reproduction and way after the warm up time, I decided to sell the Valhalla.


----------



## Letmebefrank

allanmarcus said:


> I propose JoMimby (Yo-Mimby) as the official designation of that combination




Like uncle Benny from lethal weapon 4 Yamimbi?


----------



## mrflibble

hekeli said:


> Yeah price is pretty much the only new stuff, but it seems many people downplay/forget the _preamp_ feature. I imagine there are many people at home and studios with decend dac and speakers itching to get this in between. Show me another xlr in, xlr out active preamp under $400 (even without balanced headamp as a bonus)? There's some crap like SPL Volume 2 and that's about it. If I wouldn't have my NFB-1AMP already (which is pretty stellar for $520 I have to say), pretty sure I would consider the smaller footprint Jotty hard.


 
  
 Hi
  
 I'm interested to know why you consider the SPL Volume 2 to not be very good? Do you have personal experience with it?
  
 I managed to pick one up for cheap, but haven't tried it yet because my DAC is away for repair.
  
 I know that the SPL Volume 2 has op-amps in it which I imagine would color the sound (perhaps only slightly)? I don't believe the Jotty has any op-amps in the signal path, would it therefore be correct to hypothesize that it is more transparent than the SPL Volume 2?
  
 Could the Jotty pre-amp be comparable to a passive pre-amp (such as the Goldpoint SA1X) with regards to transparency and not coloring the output from a DAC?
  
 Many thanks


----------



## Zachik

rwelles said:


> First off, I ain't no @jude so he cares to chime in, I humbly step aside.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks!  Definitely helps (although I will be waiting for couple additional m9xx vs. Jodie comparisons)...


----------



## Cet1

Thanks - that's one nail in the coffin!


----------



## Zachik

letmebefrank said:


> So after a couple days with the Jody I would like to give some more impressions.
> 
> Windows 10 > Foobar2k > USB > Modi Multibit > SYS > Jotunheim > Custom Balanced Senn Cable > HD650
> 
> ...


 
  
 Apologies for my ignorance, but what purpose does the SYS serve?  volume control?  
 If so - why not control the volume through Windows / Foobar?


----------



## Zachik

mwsvette said:


> The Jotunheim, Bimby and Lyr,


 
  
 What cables are you using for connecting Bimby to Jodie?  Schiit $20 RCA cables?


----------



## theveterans

> Apologies for my ignorance, but what purpose does the SYS serve?  volume control?
> If so - why not control the volume through Windows / Foobar?


 
  
 You can flip DAC outputs with SYS and SYS gives negligible/inaudible distortion to analog signal if any while digital volume control leads to a "not bitperfect" stream.


----------



## Letmebefrank

zachik said:


> Apologies for my ignorance, but what purpose does the SYS serve?  volume control?
> If so - why not control the volume through Windows / Foobar?


 

SYS is just used in reverse as a passive switch between my speaker and headphone amps.


----------



## jchandler3

My question in its simplest form: 
*What's better, balanced, base-Gungnir to Jodie, or SE multibit modi to Jodie?*
  
 For context, I'm getting ready to purchase the Jotunheim and currently have the Gungnir, but it's the "entry-level" Gungnir. If I sold the Gungnir, it would fund the purchase of the Jodie and a Mimby, but I can't tell if it's a step forward or backward on the DAC-front.
  
 Sorry if this seems off-topic, but there's a lot of Schiitheads in here and I'm wondering this specifically as it pertains to Jodie. Thanks!


----------



## acguitar84

jchandler3 said:


> My question in its simplest form:
> *What's better, balanced, base-Gungnir to Jodie, or SE multibit modi to Jodie?*
> 
> For context, I'm getting ready to purchase the Jotunheim and currently have the Gungnir, but it's the "entry-level" Gungnir. If I sold the Gungnir, it would fund the purchase of the Jodie and a Mimby, but I can't tell if it's a step forward or backward on the DAC-front.
> ...




If it was me, I'd buy the Jodie, and send in the Gungnir for the multibit and USB upgrades. The mimby is awesome, but I wish I had a gumby or Yggy, and could hook in with balanced cords. I'm very interested in reading what others with all 3 would have to say.


----------



## Dudco

Hello everyone.
  
 I was reading this thread whole weekend but couldn't find any comparison with Lyr2. I want to buy a good amp or Dac/amp for my LCD 2F and have no idea which one to choice(for now I'm using my fiio x7). I have zero chances to see or try any Schiit product. What do you guys think? is it more reasonable to buy Lyr2 with LISST or   Jotunheim with dac?
 Thanks with any help.
  
 P/S/ I also contacted Schiit with this question but they told that this schiit.com/about/principles


----------



## jchandler3

acguitar84 said:


> If it was me, I'd buy the Jodie, and send in the Gungnir for the multibit and USB upgrades. The mimby is awesome, but I wish I had a gumby or Yggy, and could hook in with balanced cords. I'm very interested in reading what others with all 3 would have to say.


 

 I would certainly love to do that... but that $500 multibit upgrade is a no-go for now. And I misspoke... mine has the Gen2 USB.


----------



## scottcocoabeach

dudco said:


> Hello everyone.
> 
> I was reading this thread whole weekend but couldn't find any comparison with Lyr2. I want to buy a good amp or Dac/amp for my LCD 2F and have no idea which one to choice(for now I'm using my fiio x7). I have zero chances to see or try any Schiit product. What do you guys think? is it more reasonable to buy Lyr2 with LISST or   Jotunheim with dac?
> Thanks with any help.
> ...




Will you be using IEM's or just headphones? If you are going to be using sensitive IEM's and headphones I would go with the Jodie. I have both AMPs but don't use the LISST so I can't really compare the two used as solid state. Using the Lyr with tubes, they are very different amps, and it mostly comes down to personal preference.


----------



## cskippy

If you're looking for an amp that can work with a large variety of headphones and even very sensitive IEMs, then Jodie is probably the better option.  You don't say if you have a DAC so the Jodie with a DAC module will be better than on board sound.  Or, alternatively, Get just the amp and start saving for one of the multibit DACs.  Jodie gives you the greatest flexibility by offering balanced and single ended inputs/outputs and headphone outs.


----------



## Dudco

Thank you for your answers I will use Schhit with my LCD-2F for 90% of time. So my Options are 1. -- Fiio X7 (as a source) + Lyr 2 with stock tubes and/or LISST as a AMP+ LCD-2F or option 2. --- Jonunheim as a DAC and AMP +LCD-2F. In My country Lyr2 with LISST cost same as  Jonunheim shipped from USA so no price difference for me.
 Thank you again for your help


----------



## iamxLn

Would love to hear some actual comparisons between a lyr 2 with tubes vs a Jodie. We know it's personal preference, but can you talk about the actual differences? Lyr 2 might be better for some people with a variety of headphones and no balanced cables.


----------



## MWSVette

zachik said:


> What cables are you using for connecting Bimby to Jodie?  Schiit $20 RCA cables?


 
  
 Yes, I am using Schiit Pyst cables to connect the Lyr to the Jotunheim.  Where I need longer RCA cables I use Straightwire RCA's or XLR's (They also make the Pyst for Schiit)...


----------



## grrorr76

I have the Jotunheim Dac going through my Mjolnir 2 tube amp . It may not be multiunit but boy it sounds really nice. Its a really nice DAC.  The amp needs some more burn in its not really there yet for me. But early impressions very good.  Its a very nice match to my LCD-2 f


----------



## grrorr76

The Amp has an amazing amount of power in low gain. I am quite amazed. The other observation is on the LCD-2 has some really cool bass thump to it.


----------



## gto88

Ok, I have read enough, I am in.  Just placed order at Schiit.


----------



## jchandler3

Placing the order today! Excited for my first balanced amp. Going to convert my HD650 and will use my DS Gungnir USB Gen2 until I can afford the MB upgrade. 

Now I just need to figure out how I'm going to handle the non-muting preouts...


----------



## AviP

jchandler3 said:


> Placing the order today! Excited for my first balanced amp. Going to convert my HD650 and will use my DS Gungnir USB Gen2 until I can afford the MB upgrade.
> 
> Now I just need to figure out how I'm going to handle the non-muting preouts...


 
 If you're using SE preouts, you can put a SYS after the preouts


----------



## jcdreamer

After several hours of listening to this amp with balanced out to HEK, I'm glad I passed on the Liquid Carbon. Grace m9XX will likely become paper weight.


----------



## Allanmarcus

jcdreamer said:


> After several hours of listening to this amp with balanced out to HEK, I'm glad I passed on the Liquid Carbon. Grace m9XX will likely become paper weight.




Given that the LC is a little warmer than the Jot and the HEK is a bit rolled off at the top end, the Jot/HEX pairing seems pretty smart.


----------



## thefitz

I used my FiiO X5ii coax out into a Bifrost Uber (that I'm considering upgrading...), split into a Lyr (with LISST) and a Valhalla. Would there be a point in me getting a plain Jodie, using it with a Bifrost?


----------



## Muse Wanderer

Jodie's pivot point technology implemented to drive speakers would be great.
  
 I am waiting patiently to RMAF and Schiit showing off good ol' 2-channel stuff or maybe (I wish) revamped Rag!
  
 Hopefully driving Salk Song 3 speakers too.


----------



## thefitz

I straight up asked Schiit if they plan on releasing a digital coax DAC module, and they said no. So there.


----------



## jchandler3

avip said:


> If you're using SE preouts, you can put a SYS after the preouts


 

 I'm considering that... I've been using XLR for my monitors and would ideally keep it that way. I might go the remote-outlet-route.


----------



## fjrabon

Got to spend a little bit of head time on Sunday with the m9XX and the Joty head to head.  And the results were more or less as you'd expect.  Joty is very clearly a more capable amp than the m9XX.  It's not night and day, but the difference is there.  A bit more dynamic.  However, the DAC on the m9XX was a bit better, IMHO.  Both units sound to me very neutral.  The m9XX is maybe a smidge smoother, and the Joty a bit more detailed, but that difference is fairly miniscule.  I'd say they're very similar units on the whole tonality wise, just with different capabilities.  I still love the crossfeed capabilities of the m9XX, and not needing a wall wart can be a plus for the m9XX in certain situations.
  
 Overall, I'd say if you need amping versatility, go with the Jotenheim; it can drive everything from IEMs to the HE6 well.  It may not be the best amp in the world for every headphone, but it will acquit itself well with anything you throw at it.  If you have exclusively medium to easy to drive single ended headphones, go with the m9XX, as the better DAC will shine, and it has more features and more versatility use wise.  
  
 I think of the Joty as a near TOTL desktop amp that has a capable DAC slapped on.  I think of the m9XX as a transportable all in one solution.  They serve different needs to me, although their use cases can overlap.  
  
 While it might seem that I have poo-pooed the DAC on the Joty, it is a very good DAC, and CERTAINLY worth the $100.  Unless you are a vinyl person, I would absolutely bet the built in DAC with it, just so you could use it for those times when maybe you're gonna spend some time at a hotel, and don't want to carry a ton of extra stuff.  It's not like the ODAC, which makes me cringe for something better.  It's maybe a smidge better than the DAC in the regular Modi.  
  
 I think of it like the m9XX is a $500 DAC with a $200 amp and the Joty is a $550 amp with a $150 DAC.  Both I think are still great values, just depends on what you need/want.  I personally don't need the Joty, so despite the temptation I probably won't get one, but I love that Schiit is making it, as hopefully it really brings some of these competing manufacturers to realize the need they have to step their game up or be relegated to irrelevance.  
  
 Schiit is really bringing the thunder with their last 2 offerings (Joty and MoMBy) and hopefully disrupting the market, similarly to how Apple did with the original iPhone.


----------



## grizzlybeast

If you get the joti with the Dac can you bypass the Dac section and still use your own Dac?


----------



## acguitar84

grizzlybeast said:


> If you get the joti with the Dac can you bypass the Dac section and still use your own Dac?


 
 Oh yes! There's a switch on the front, that you can use to select the internal DAC, or the balanced inputs, or the single ended inputs. I was running mimby though the single ended inputs this weekend, it sounds really good!! I wish I had gumby or Yggy to try with the balanced inputs. Also, the internal DAC is pretty decent itself, a capable "pinch hitter" as it where.


----------



## acguitar84

ancipital said:


> 1) Don't drink and post, you maniac!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I know, lol. At least I didn't post anything silly I hope. I did stack them on top of one another, and it seems like it would be ok. They both get pretty hot though. I don't think I'll have to stack them, when I hook them up permanently though. In fact, I want to pair them with at least gumbys at some point, and they'll be in different places on a shelf. I saw some people already posted pics of the mimby and Jotu together, I assume you've already seen them.


----------



## Autre31415

How does this compare to the Modi2U/Magni2U Schiit stack?


----------



## Defiant00

autre31415 said:


> How does this compare to the Modi2U/Magni2U Schiit stack?


 
  
 From others, as mine isn't here yet:
  
 Jodie has:

Similar DAC performance to the Modi 2
Only USB input compared to Modi 2 Uber
Balanced and single-ended inputs and outputs, VS Magni 2 only having SE.
Better (sound quality) and more powerful (especially balanced) than the Magni 2.


----------



## Autre31415

defiant00 said:


> From others, as mine isn't here yet:
> 
> Jodie has:
> 
> ...


 

 Wow, definitely seems enticing. I might sell mine off and upgrade. Based on everything I've seen it's quite a good value.


----------



## jchandler3

Anyone know if the modules are user-installable and -swappable? I can't seem to find any indication of what their plans are. It seems ambiguous to me, but the website says: 
  


> In the future, you’ll be able to easily upgrade to a different module...


----------



## Defiant00

jchandler3 said:


> Anyone know if the modules are user-installable and -swappable? I can't seem to find any indication of what their plans are. It seems ambiguous to me, but the website says:


 
  
 They're like their DAC cards, "No user serviceable parts inside" and all that. If you take liability and are careful about it, though? Yeah, you'll probably be able to swap it out yourself.
  
 Also, they've said they'll have the cards available for separate purchase eventually, but first step is probably shipping out all the initial orders.


----------



## JohnBal

jchandler3 said:


> Anyone know if the modules are user-installable and -swappable? I can't seem to find any indication of what their plans are. It seems ambiguous to me, but the website says:


 
 See Jason's reply here:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/701900/schiit-happened-the-story-of-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up/12405#post_12821343


----------



## Tuneslover

tuneslover said:


> I purchased an expensive Audioquest Carbon USB cable a few years ago because I thought a good quality cable was necessary. I had it connected from an iMac into an original Modi for 3 years or so and it did indeed sound good with absolutely no noise or interference issues necessitating something like a Wyrd. I recently purchased a Modi Multibit and thought "Ah, now I can try a Toslink cable". So I used a decent quality Audioquest one I had laying around and found both cables sound identical. I'll keep listening with the Toslink as the primary input but also do some occasional comparisons.


 
 Well it seems that I must retract what I said yesterday about the USB versus Toslink cables/connections from my iMac to the Modi MB.  I have been listening to various music all day with the Toslink and occasionally flipping to the USB connection and I must say that the Toslink connection definitely sounds more expansive with better bass punch.  Mind you it's not night and day different but audibly noticeable if a fair amount of comparison time is taken.


----------



## Allanmarcus

tuneslover said:


> tuneslover said:
> 
> 
> > I purchased an expensive Audioquest Carbon USB cable a few years ago because I thought a good quality cable was necessary. I had it connected from an iMac into an original Modi for 3 years or so and it did indeed sound good with absolutely no noise or interference issues necessitating something like a Wyrd. I recently purchased a Modi Multibit and thought "Ah, now I can try a Toslink cable". So I used a decent quality Audioquest one I had laying around and found both cables sound identical. I'll keep listening with the Toslink as the primary input but also do some occasional comparisons.
> ...


 

 I'm very curious about this, so I forked the question of "how can this be" to the Sound Science forum, so I don't derail this thread. 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/819447/can-using-toslink-have-more-bass-than-usb
  
 Please reply there and not here.


----------



## Guidostrunk




----------



## JLoud

Comparison of Jotunheim w/dac to Modi2/Magni2.  I compared the two setups with AKG K812, Hifiman he 560 and Fostex thx00.  
 Fostex thx00:a little more control in the bass, improved mid range detail(biggest difference), about the same Highs. In favor of Jotumheim.
  
 AKG K812: Improved dynamics, especially in the bass. Mid range a little more detailed.  Highs a little more strident.(always a problem with 812's IMO) A toss up because of the accentuated highs.
  
 Hifiman he 560: Better bass extension and control(very noticeable), a little sweeter mid range, highs about the same, maybe a little more detail.  In favor of Jotunheim.
  
 All tests were done with SE.  Will test with balanced connections when new cables come.
 All in all I feel the Jotunheim was a worthy upgrade.  Especially considering I haven't even taken advantage of the balanced connections.
  
 Will compare to my Bifrost 4490 and Asgard 2 next week.


----------



## grrorr76

I have been testing with my Beyerdynamic T1 modded cans in balanced and wow what a match, more bass wider sound stage than I am used to very nice pairing.  I have the new DT1990's on order which shall be an interesting pairing as well.


----------



## Musicguy2015

Hi. The DAC part of Jotunheim do not support DSD files. It can not really to compare with Grace dac.


----------



## Allanmarcus

musicguy2015 said:


> Hi. The DAC part of Jotunheim do not support DSD files. It can not really to compare with Grace dac.


 

 I'm pretty sure the Grace will decode PCM.


----------



## Musicguy2015

Hi, I have a chord mojo also. I am thinking to get a jodie. Have you even try this setting; 
  
 chord mojo > Schiit jotunheim (using RCA SE)
  
 if so, How is the sound quality? 
  
 Please advise.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Musicguy2015

Sure. It can.


----------



## JLoud

Just starting listening to my Focal Elears on the Jotunheim.  Wow, this combination is fantastic.  Very dynamic, plenty of detail and really punchy.  I just haven't found a headphone I don't like the Jotunheim with yet.  There may be better amps for different headphones, but as an all around amp it is exceptional.


----------



## grrorr76

jloud said:


> Just starting listening to my Focal Elears on the Jotunheim.  Wow, this combination is fantastic.  Very dynamic, plenty of detail and really punchy.  I just haven't found a headphone I don't like the Jotunheim with yet.  There may be better amps for different headphones, but as an all around amp it is exceptional.


 

 was that with the DAC card and in balanced or single ended?


----------



## Pott

Just got one to replace my Modi2/Magni2 combo...
  
 PHWOAR.
 I'm not much of an audiophile; I listen mostly to Spotify, high-quality audio, or MP3s (usually V2). Sometimes just for kicks I'll put on some of my FLAC files. Oh and I VERY REARELY use headphones. Mostly it's straight to Adam A3Xs. When I wire in, it's through Audio Technica M50s.
  
 All that being said... I am really enjoying the Jotunheim. I got it today but can definitely hear more depth, both through the speakers and through the headphones.
 I like the convenience of a single box though, though it's certainly bulkier than the previous combo.
  
 Note that I have no experience with other Schiit products, and that prior to this the more sophisticated DAC I ever used was a Fiio E17... I'm far from an expert.
  
 Ah one caveat: with the Modi/Magni combo, plugging the headphones muted the speaker output. Not so on the Jotunheim. I asked Schiit and it's due to the way it's wired. I preferred it the other way, but ah well...


----------



## dstea

How's this compared to the JDS Element?


----------



## pdferguson

Excuse me if this question has been answered already, but if you set the input to SE, can you listen to the balanced headphone output, or does it then only drive the SE output?


----------



## Vigrith

pdferguson said:


> Excuse me if this question has been answered already, but if you set the input to SE, can you listen to the balanced headphone output, or does it then only drive the SE output?


 
  
 You can use either regardless of input.


----------



## Floss99

vigrith said:


> You can use either regardless of input.


I read somewhere that it sounds better to use se output when using single ended input, and balanced output when using balanced input on the jot. Is this the case?


----------



## Vigrith

floss99 said:


> I read somewhere that it sounds better to use se output when using single ended input, and balanced output when using balanced input on the jot. Is this the case?


 
  
 Maybe someone with proper knowledge of circuitry and whatnot can chime in but I don't see why there would be a (noticeable) difference, unlikely given Schiit's competency and track record. I'm not qualified to give absolute statements as I haven't studied the subject any more than just marginally out of interest though.
  
 I suppose a lot of people swear by the SQ improvement from wiring their Gungnir through XLRs to their Jotunheim/MJ2 for example over using RCAs but I'm pretty sure the benefits (or otherwise) of it are there regardless of the headphone output you choose after that.


----------



## comzee

jloud said:


> There may be better amps for different headphones, but as an all around amp it is exceptional.


 
 Guess I'll chime in after 20 pages of hype.
  
 There are better amps for your headphones (the Elear).
 I've been listening to Jotun for over a week now (got it last Tuesday), my impressions are still the same.
  
 There are $1k-2k amps that would outperform it, and $2-$4k amps that would outperform those in turn.
  
 I don't own any < $1k amps, so I can't say how the Jotun stacks up against its peers.
 I can say at $400 it's an exceptional amp, but there are many options that are better for more $$.
  
 I saw someone comparing the Jotun to the Ragnarok, saying the Jotun was better....
 Just because you own it, doesn't mean you have to comparemtalize for yourself why it's better than anything on the market.
 I don't know the Ragnarok, but if the performance is like any of my other similarly priced amps, it would crap on the Jotun.
  
 Just looking at this objectively, I own the Jotun to. *I love it, **@ $400*. Just posting this so any head high-end head-fi'ers can get a different take.


----------



## ColtMrFire

comzee said:


> Guess I'll chime in after 20 pages of hype.
> 
> There are better amps for your headphones (the Elear).
> I've been listening to Jotun for over a week now (got it last Tuesday), my impressions are still the same.
> ...


 
  
 There are people who've owned/heard Ragnarok and own Jotun who say Jotun is a better amp.  And those people are on a forum that detests hype.  So I believe them.  It's a fairly objective place.
  
 Also, you say more expensive amps outperform Jotun yet you don't own any $1k+ amps...?  How can you make this assertion then?  Have you A/B compared $1k+ amps with the Jotun?  Jotun apparently outperforms many $1k+ amps, including Ragnarok, and this is, again, from people who are trustworthy when it comes to reviews.  I'm not allowed to reveal the name of this forum, so PM me if you want it.
  
 Jotun looks to be a gamechanger of an amp.  A $400 statement/TOTL amp for a company that already has exceptional amps.


----------



## Mudshark

@comzee ^
  
 I am sure there is better, but at the moment I cannot imagine spending big $$ in pursuit of the elusive better.  With a quality source feeding the Joti, the Joti can make relatively inexpensive cans (e.g., the Denon D2000) sound spectacular.  YMMV, of course, but in my system, this $400 headphone amp driving a pair of $300 stock single-ended headphones is as enjoyable musically as my preamp>power amp>loudspeakers/subwoofer (Levinson/Bryston/Magnepan/JL Audio).


----------



## pctazhp

coltmrfire said:


> There are people who've owned/heard Ragnarok and own Jotun who say Jotun is a better amp.  And those people are on a forum that detests hype.  So I believe them.  It's a fairly objective place.
> 
> Also, you say more expensive amps outperform Jotun yet you don't own any $1k+ amps...?  How can you make this assertion then?  Have you A/B compared $1k+ amps with the Jotun?  Jotun apparently outperforms many $1k+ amps, including Ragnarok, and this is, again, from people who are trustworthy when it comes to reviews.  I'm not allowed to reveal the name of this forum, so PM me if you want it.
> 
> Jotun looks to be a gamechanger of an amp.  A $400 statement/TOTL amp for a company that already has exceptional amps.


 
 I think he meant he didn't own any amps under $1000. 
  
 But in general I'll say that I am often surprised at people who seem to automatically assume that price is a good indicator of SQ. I've seen it said that it requires much more talent and ability to design audio gear with budget as a concern than to design gear where cost is no constraint.


----------



## comzee

coltmrfire said:


> There are people who've owned/heard Ragnarok and own Jotun who say Jotun is a better amp.  And those people are on a forum that detests hype.  So I believe them.  It's a fairly objective place.
> 
> Also, you say more expensive amps outperform Jotun yet you don't own any $1k+ amps...?  How can you make this assertion then?  Have you A/B compared $1k+ amps with the Jotun?  Jotun apparently outperforms many $1k+ amps, including Ragnarok, and this is, again, from people who are trustworthy when it comes to reviews.  I'm not allowed to reveal the name of this forum, so PM me if you want it.
> 
> Jotun looks to be a gamechanger of an amp.  A $400 statement/TOTL amp for a company that already has exceptional amps.


 
 I know that forum, I browse it, and have posted it. I personally know many of the people (including the master hyper Marv).
 Imo, sb@f is even more group think than head-fi... (if that is the place you're talking about)
  
 You can believe whatever you want to, if you think the Jotun is the best there is, then get it, and be happy! Not sure why you or anybody else would need my validation.
 I posted the above for people that were already in the high-end stuff, not for somebody looking for a $400 end game. Jotun is $400 (or $500 with dac) end game for many people.
  


pctazhp said:


> But in general I'll say that I am often surprised at people who seem to automatically assume that price is a good indicator of SQ.


 
 I completely agree with this.
  
 I happen to own tho a Lehmann BCL, and Taurus MkII. I prefer both over the Jotun, they coincidentally are both more expensive.
 So I'm not just pulling sheit out my @ss here, I did the A/B myself, not just parroting other people impressions


----------



## lenroot77




----------



## ColtMrFire

comzee said:


> if you think the Jotun is the best there is, then get it, and be happy!


 
  
 That wasn't really what I was getting at.  No, Jotun is probably not the best amp, because "best" is subjective once you get past the $300 mark in this hobby, diminishing returns and all that.  But technicalities can be objectively quantified, and apparently Jotun performs better than Rag, from what I've read... it seems to "fix" issues people complained about with Rag.  And Schiit doesn't gimp new products to preserve old (more expensive) ones.


----------



## Tuneslover

pctazhp said:


> I think he meant he didn't own any amps under $1000.
> 
> But in general I'll say that I am often surprised at people who seem to automatically assume that price is a good indicator of SQ. I've seen it said that it requires much more talent and ability to design audio gear with budget as a concern than to design gear where cost is no constraint.




Good point! Also people should remember when doing a price/performance comparison be sure to recognize that buying direct from Schiit is inherently cheaper than buying competitors brands from retail stores. In other words, the Jot could cost $800, instead of $400 if you had to buy it at an audio retail store.


----------



## ColtMrFire

I imagine you could've priced Jot at $2K+ and gotten away with it... considering the reviews.


----------



## acguitar84

I've read some interesting posts about Jotunheim myself. One poster on another site compared it favorably to his EC ZDS. I've also read posts saying they prefer it, in some ways anyway, to their Ragnarok  (or some other more expensive amps too). However, I don't think anyone is going to unequivocally state the Jotunheim is the best amp in the world now bar none. I think it's safe to assume it's a real contender though, and great "bang for the buck."
  
 I like how it has punch, and is fully balanced. For my purposes, for now, I think it will work more as a preamp for me, rather than a headphone amp. I can't afford to outfit all of my "stations" right now, so I'll probably keep the mimby and the WA7 for the headphone rig, and use Jotunheim(s) for my desktop rigs. I like the extra punch they provide, better sound for my speakers.
  
 All in all, I think it's a very nice rig, and well worth it's price, regardless of how it competes (or can't compete) with amps out of it's weight class ($) so to speak.


----------



## sikki-six

Does anyone have ideas how this compares to *Lyr 2* (with LISSTs even)? Both seem to have lots of power at least. I'm using LCD-2.1's and a ModiBit DAC most of the time.


----------



## GearMe

mudshark said:


> @comzee
> ^
> 
> I am sure there is better, but at the moment I cannot imagine spending big $$ in pursuit of the elusive better.  With a quality source feeding the Joti, the Joti can make relatively inexpensive cans (e.g., the Denon D2000) sound spectacular.  YMMV, of course, but in my system, this $400 headphone amp driving a pair of $300 stock single-ended headphones is as enjoyable musically as my preamp>power amp>loudspeakers/subwoofer (Levinson/Bryston/Magnepan/JL Audio).


Wow! I had this level of 2 channel equipment a few years ago and am surprised by this comment. Your D2000's sound as good as well-driven Maggies and a Sub? When we downsized from our house to our townhome I sold this gear and still miss it...hence the switch to headphones. 

TBH, I've never been able to recreate the sound/feeling/experience of any my 2 channel systems via headphones (take your pick Maggies, Quads, Stacked Dahlquists, etc.). The imaging and the raw power (when I chose to play it loud) of a good 2 channel system is still something I miss compared to headphones.

That said, the value of cans and headphone amps is far superior. This benefit has allowed me to buy several different flavors of 'speaker systems' (many more than I had in our house) which I enjoy when I switch from one music genre to another.


----------



## Mudshark

gearme said:


> Wow! I had this level of 2 channel equipment a few years ago and am surprised by this comment. Your D2000's sound as good as well-driven Maggies and a Sub? When we downsized from our house to our townhome I sold this gear and still miss it...hence the switch to headphones.
> 
> TBH, I've never been able to recreate the sound/feeling/experience of any my 2 channel systems via headphones (take your pick Maggies, Quads, Stacked Dahlquists, etc.). The imaging and the raw power (when I chose to play it loud) of a good 2 channel system is still something I miss compared to headphones.
> 
> That said, the value of cans and headphone amps is far superior. This benefit has allowed me to buy several different flavors of 'speaker systems' (many more than I had in our house) which I enjoy when I switch from one music genre to another.


 
  
 Well, I wrote above that the Joti/D2000 combo is "as enjoyable musically" as my speaker rig.  I did not mean to suggest the D2000's driven by the Joti "sound as good" objectively as my Maggies and JLA sub driven by a Levinson preamp and Bryston power amp.  The headphone and loudspeaker experiences are so different that I would not attempt to compare them directly.  My point was simply that I am getting comparable listening pleasure out a headphone amp and headphones with a combined MSRP of @ $700 USD as I am from from a preamp/amp/speakers/sub setup with a combined MSRP that is more than 25x higher.
  
 Do the D2000's scale and slam like the Maggies/JLA?  No, not even close.  But power up the Joti/Denons, play "Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun" from Pink Floyd's _A Saucerful of Secrets _... and prepare for takeoff!


----------



## cskippy

sikki-six said:


> Does anyone have ideas how this compares to *Lyr 2* (with LISSTs even)? Both seem to have lots of power at least. I'm using LCD-2.1's and a ModiBit DAC most of the time.


 
 Not from personal experience but I've read that Jodie is more versatile, especially if you want to you sensitive IEMs.  Also, it offers balanced inputs and preouts which is a nice plus.  Specs show improvements across the board too.  You might miss tubez goodness though?


----------



## subwoof3r

May someone please compare it (with DAC module) to iFi Micro iDSD ?


----------



## MattTCG

subwoof3r said:


> May someone please compare it (with DAC module) to iFi Micro iDSD ?


 
  
 Based on my memory (haven't had the idsd in about three months), I'd give the edge to the idsd when it comes to overall sonics of the dac alone. The Jodie trounces the idsd when just comparing the amp. Jodie and idsd both have impressive power but overall the Jodie has more control and refinement of that power when it comes to transmitting it to the driver.


----------



## JLoud

comzee said:


> jloud said:
> 
> 
> > There may be better amps for different headphones, but as an all around amp it is exceptional.
> ...


 
 I don't believe I said it was better than anything out there.  I said it was a good all around amp.  Some amps I have owned sounded good with some headphones and not with others.  So far I have not found that to be the case with the Jot.  Hifiman he 560, 400s, Akg K812, Audeze el8, Sennhieser hd 650 & 700 Fostex thx00, Audioquest Nighthawk have all sounded wonderful.  Generally speaking the more you spend the better the quality, I don't believe I made any claims otherwise.  In response to how it compared to the Modi2/Magni2.


----------



## JLoud

grrorr76 said:


> jloud said:
> 
> 
> > Just starting listening to my Focal Elears on the Jotunheim.  Wow, this combination is fantastic.  Very dynamic, plenty of detail and really punchy.  I just haven't found a headphone I don't like the Jotunheim with yet.  There may be better amps for different headphones, but as an all around amp it is exceptional.
> ...


 
 Internal DAC and single ended.


----------



## iamxLn

still waiting for an actual lyr 2 owner to chime in.


----------



## KG Jag

pdferguson said:


> Excuse me if this question has been answered already, but if you set the input to SE, can you listen to the balanced headphone output, or does it then only drive the SE output?


 
  
 Yes--you can either either headphone output.


----------



## bclark8923

Taking bets on less than 2 years until there's a Jotunheim Multibit DAC module


----------



## ColtMrFire

bclark8923 said:


> Taking bets on less than 2 years until there's a Jotunheim Multibit DAC module


 
  
 Moffat said its not happening.  Not enough space.


----------



## lenroot77

coltmrfire said:


> Moffat said its not happening.  Not enough space.




For now it won't fit....


----------



## JLoud

Man I hope they can find a way to cram it in there.  Multibit Jot.  That would be sweet!


----------



## pctazhp

lenroot77 said:


> For now it won't fit....


 
 Maybe they can design a larger module and soak it in water to make it shrink !!!


----------



## franzdom

It could bulge out the back like a goiter


----------



## Spiral Out

iamxln said:


> still waiting for an actual lyr 2 owner to chime in.


 
 So am I. I'm interested to hear how it compares as they are around the same price point.


----------



## Allanmarcus

bclark8923 said:


> Taking bets on less than 2 years until there's a Jotunheim Multibit DAC module


 

 The make a multibit DAC module for the Jot. It's external and it's called a Mimby.


----------



## Dodgercat

Balanced headphone recommendations for this amp ? I want to purchase a new headphone to pair with this amp. There aren't to many options Sony, Just and Send have a couple of under 1K offerings. Only the new Sennheiser HD800S seems to actually come with the cable though...Less expensive balanced " Capable " cans seem to require spending an additional 200 - 300 for a cable...when you add that on top of say the cost of the HD700, you're not far off from the much better HD800S...Any thoughts or recommendations ?


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

comzee said:


> Guess I'll chime in after 20 pages of hype.
> 
> There are better amps for your headphones (the Elear).
> I've been listening to Jotun for over a week now (got it last Tuesday), my impressions are still the same.
> ...


 

 And just because you own more expensive amps doesn't meant you have to rationalize for yourself why those "crap all over" the Jotunheim. It goes both ways. Lots of people with uber-expensive gear claim it sounds great--even if it sometimes doesn't!. No one likes to be taken for a ride at any price point, so if someone has spent a lot of money on gear, of course they're going to defend it, especially against something that "merely" costs $400. If this amp came out at $2,000 in a Ragnarok sized chassis, people would be calling it a TOTL amp without hesitation. That's not to say it's the best amp ever made or the best amp currently in production, simply that it's a very powerful, very versatile amp that has the ability to pump out just what it's being fed, and doing so in a way that retains the musicality of the source. And the price is a red herring.
  
 One last quibble, you keep using the word objectively and then follow it up with your subjective impressions.


----------



## comzee

merrick said:


>


 
 How did I crap on anything?
  
 "I can say at $400 it's an exceptional amp"
 "*I love it,* *@ $400"*
  
 Also this:
  
 "There are $1k-2k amps that would outperform it"
  
 Does not equal
  
 "Any $1k-2k amps would outperform it"
  
 Two very different statements.
 First and foremost, nothing is objective in the audio world.
 I would just trying to convey, that I'm not pumping up the Jotunheim hype train, because it's my only piece of gear.
  
 I was trying to say, I have other amps I can use, I can take/leave the Jotunheim at any time. I don't need to like it, I don't need to not like it. I'm impartial to how good it is, is what I was trying to say.
  
 With that said, I still stand behind the things I've said.


----------



## thefitz

Just when I think I understand, I take a step back. 

How does an unbalanced DAC (like a Bifrost) going into a Jotie with balanced output work? You'd get the same power output as if the DAC was balanced, correct? Is it really "balanced" then?


----------



## Vigrith

comzee said:


> How did I crap on anything?


 
  
 I don't know how you could possibly misunderstand/misinterpret what he said.
  


comzee said:


> I don't know the Ragnarok, but if the performance is like any of my other similarly priced amps, *it would crap on the Jotun*.


 
  
 He wasn't implying you crapped on anything. He was quoting you ipsis verbis. I'm dumbfounded.
  
 PS: I'm neutral on the subject, I understand your intentions were not to put the Jotunheim down but I agree with Merrick's views.


----------



## jfoxvol

thefitz said:


> Just when I think I understand, I take a step back.
> 
> How does an unbalanced DAC (like a Bifrost) going into a Jotie with balanced output work? You'd get the same power output as if the DAC was balanced, correct? Is it really "balanced" then?





Most inherently balanced amplifiers have a phase splitter on single ended inputs to present a balanced signal to the amp. The Jotunheim is a new topology that doesn't require that step. I'm not sure as the topology is Schiit's own thing now. So, input signal gets balance-fied and fed to the amp and then goes to the output. Most balanced amps must take a balanced signal and run through a summer circuit to get to single ended output. The Jotunheim apparently doesn't need that either. It can just take one leg of the output and go straight unbalanced.


----------



## comzee

vigrith said:


>


 
 You agree with this statement "If this amp came out at $2,000 in a Ragnarok sized chassis, people would be calling it a TOTL amp without hesitation." ?


----------



## jfoxvol

Also, can we please check the pissing matches? We are adults, guys. Forums too often drop to middle school level.


----------



## Dodgercat

Any ideas guys ?


----------



## Dodgercat

Any recommendations on my post re a balanced headphone recondition. Feeling ignored, no love


----------



## jfoxvol

dodgercat said:


> Any recommendations on my post re a balanced headphone recondition. Feeling ignored, no love




Only had mine a few days. HD600 and LCD3 non fazor run balanced are quite good. I'm still keeping my total impressions until I have had more time.


----------



## Allanmarcus

dodgercat said:


> Any recommendations on my post re a balanced headphone recondition. Feeling ignored, no love


 

 First, please proofread before you hit post 
  
 Here's my recommendation. Don't buy a balanced headphone just 'cus you have a balanced amp. Buy a headphone you like. If it has a detachable cable, then you can upgrade the cable later if you feel you must. It takes a pretty trained ear to distinguish the difference between SE and balanced output, so unless you are one of those types, don't sweat that for now.
  
 As for the balanced DAC input, for those that are confused, it's also another thing you should not worry about unless you are total audiophile and have really well trained ears. Even then, I doubt most audiophiles could tell the difference between volume leveled balanced vs unbalanced DAC input. 
  
 Also, don't be confused between balanced input and balanced output. Balanced input (say between a DAC and an amp) is all about the difference between the + and - voltages, and then a ground. That type of balanced cable was designed to reduce interference over long runs, like at a concert between the mIc and a soundboard, or between the amps and speakers. Your DAC will likely sit very near to your amp, so there is not likely to be any EMI. DACs can product higher output for balanced cables since the EMI is handled by the cable better, so a balanced DAC may sound louder; not necessarily better. Since the Jodie has plenty of power, most people (possibly no one) will miss the extra few db one gets from a balanced DAC connection.
  
 Bottom line, get a good headphone with a detachable cable, and use SE it with the DAC and don't worry about balanced unless you have the money to spend on gear. All things being equal, a balanced headphone cable really only adds a tiny fraction to the enjoyment of listening. After all, it's all about the enjoyment of listening, right?
  
 Of course a good part of this hobby for many is simply buying and trying new things.


----------



## Dodgercat

Allanmarcus, sory about the typos, composing off of my phone, it auto spell corrects poorly and my fat fingers aren't as adept at typing on a phone screen, as my teenagers, sorry again.

Thanks for your knowledge advice, the forums are all lit up about the new Schiit amp, one of the features they extols is the balanced capability. You say, don't stress it, so I'll take that advice and save the money. I'm definitely an enthusiast, but don't have the deep pockets of an audiophile. I always believe investing money in quality to be appreciated in the long run, is what the definition OF VALUE is





allanmarcus said:


> First, please proofread before you hit post
> 
> Here's my recommendation. Don't buy a balanced headphone just 'cus you have a balanced amp. Buy a headphone you like. If it has a detachable cable, then you can upgrade the cable later if you feel you must. It takes a pretty trained ear to distinguish the difference between SE and balanced output, so unless you are one of those types, don't sweat that for now.
> 
> ...


----------



## Allanmarcus

dodgercat said:


> Allanmarcus, sory about the typos, composing off of my phone, it auto spell corrects poorly and my fat fingers aren't as adept at typing on a phone screen, as my teenagers, sorry again.
> 
> Thanks for your knowledge advice, the forums are all lit up about the new Schiit amp, one of the features they extols is the balanced capability. You say, don't stress it, so I'll take that advice and save the money. I'm definitely an enthusiast, but don't have the deep pockets of an audiophile. I always believe investing money in quality to be appreciated in the long run, is what the definition OF VALUE is




The Jodie is quite possibly the end game value amp to get, as moving up from the Jodie may require $1000 or more. There is, a lot of excitement about this amp, and some hype, but most well deserved. Given what I've read here and other places, the Jodie is a great all around SS amp, and will drive pretty much anything well. Getting some good single ended headphones and a Jodie and you will be set for a while. If the upgraditis bug hits, you can spend money on a DAC, cables, and more better headphones and likely still be right on the money with Jodie.


----------



## iamxLn

spiral out said:


> So am I. I'm interested to hear how it compares as they are around the same price point.




I think the answer is going to be "different" for a wide range of headphones I think the lyr might be the better buy because balance cables are spendy and you could get a better amp than joti after factoring in all the balance whatevers. I also read the joti doesn't do too hot with brighter headphones. But we will wait for an owner of both to chime in, would be interesting to hear the view of a project ember 2 owner as it's also the lyr 2 competition.


----------



## dstea

How does this compare to the JDS Element? I have an ath-ad2000 and looking to buy an amp.


----------



## Letmebefrank

dodgercat said:


> Any recommendations on my post re a balanced headphone recondition. Feeling ignored, no love


 
  
 I am using the HD650 with a stock cable I re-terminated in 4-pin XLR. It is a fantastic pairing and I wrote several impressions of the combo in this thread. You can buy a Neutrik 4-pin XLR male for $8-$10 and an extra stock 650 cable for $20-$25, use some soldering skills and you're good to go. The HD650 cables the red is right+ and green is left+, copper is negative. To solder the HD650 cables you have to get the wire pretty hot (but not too hot or you will burn up the copper) to melt off the laquer on the wires. You will know its melted off when the solder on the tip of your iron absorbs into the wire. Here is the image I used to solder my XLR on and it worked out great. You dont use the shield ground for the headphone cables.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hmmm.... I just picked up a pair of 1' , monoprice xlr's, and a four pin xlr plug to re-terminate my HE560 cable. All for $22. 

Then , once your re-terminated. You can make an adapter for SE. 


iamxln said:


> I think the answer is going to be "different" for a wide range of headphones I think the lyr might be the better buy because balance cables are spendy and you could get a better amp than joti after factoring in all the balance whatevers. I also read the joti doesn't do too hot with brighter headphones. But we will wait for an owner of both to chime in, would be interesting to hear the view of a project ember 2 owner as it's also the lyr 2 competition.


----------



## xuan87

guidostrunk said:


> Hmmm.... I just picked up a pair of 1' , monoprice xlr's, and a four pin xlr plug to re-terminate my HE560 cable. All for $22.
> 
> Then , once your re-terminated. You can make an adapter for SE.


 
  
 Yea I agree, if you know how to solder and make your own cables, it's actually really cheap. I just bought a whole bunch of plugs from Taobao, first time purchase so I can't comment on the quality, but price wise, it's much cheaper than mouser.


----------



## Ancipital

dodgercat said:


> Balanced headphone recommendations for this amp ? I want to purchase a new headphone to pair with this amp. There aren't to many options Sony, Just and Send have a couple of under 1K offerings. Only the new Sennheiser HD800S seems to actually come with the cable though...Less expensive balanced " Capable " cans seem to require spending an additional 200 - 300 for a cable...when you add that on top of say the cost of the HD700, you're not far off from the much better HD800S...Any thoughts or recommendations ?


 
  
 If you don't want to break the bank, you could try throwing HD650 on there.. The good old 650 scales like mad, depending on the quality of your amp. You can reterminate the stock cable with an XLR connector for the price of a sandwich. It's unnecessary to always buy expensive cables- unless the stock one is actually faulty, the only real difference in sound will be in your head. Hell, even if you want some audio bling or a shorter cable, you don't have to spend "300" (I assume dollars, when people don't specify) either, you can get very pretty cables constructed for a lot less if you put some thought into it.
  
 While the HD800S looks very nice (I haven't heard the combo), buying it just because it comes with a balanced cable is very silly indeed, you have lots of good choices.
  
 The HD700 is pretty shrill, it probably wouldn't be my first choice for this amp anyway- the HD650 with a balanced cable would cost less and probably sound much nicer. The HE560 with Focus A pads would probably sound nicer than the HD700 on it, also. It might be worth mentioning that the HE560 takes HD700 cables too, if you're in a shopping mood.
  
 If the subtext is that you secretly want to justify buying some HD800S, of course, don't let me discourage you- go for it


----------



## Tuneslover

coltmrfire said:


> Moffat said its not happening.  Not enough space.




A while back after the Bifrost came out with the Multibit option I remember reading that there is no way that Modi could ever come out with Multibit due to space..well look what became possible.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ And there is always an option of a Jodie in a larger chassis.


----------



## Cet1

Above all these changes from SE to Balance cabling, the question still is - Is there a NOTICEABLE sound difference to one's ears???  If so, what?  I would love to go balanced but haven't heard from anyone on exactly what the difference is.  Several have speculated here and on other forums, but there hasn't been a great number who have real experience with a/b'ing SE vs balanced with the Jodie.  That's what I want to read about!


----------



## 394216

Can anyone compare the Jotunheim balanced in and out to an iFi iDSD + Burson Soloist SL combo? We don't have a schiit dealer here in our country so auditioning it is not an option.
  
 I already bought an ADEL U6 so my wallet prevents me from buying this Jotie sight unseen lol.


----------



## Ancipital

cet1 said:


> Above all these changes from SE to Balance cabling, the question still is - Is there a NOTICEABLE sound difference to one's ears???  If so, what?  I would love to go balanced but haven't heard from anyone on exactly what the difference is.  Several have speculated here and on other forums, but there hasn't been a great number who have real experience with a/b'ing SE vs balanced with the Jodie.  That's what I want to read about!


 
 I think a few people have, but you'll have to search around.
  
 I will certainly be doing it soon, when all the bits arrive... I can't promise pages of purple prose, but if there's a big difference, you will hear about it.


----------



## thefitz

comzee said:


> You agree with this statement "If this amp came out at $2,000 in a Ragnarok sized chassis, people would be calling it a TOTL amp without hesitation." ?


 

 Only if you use a $300 USB cable.
  


ancipital said:


> I think a few people have, but you'll have to search around.
> 
> I will certainly be doing it soon, when all the bits arrive... I can't promise pages of purple prose, but if there's a big difference, you will hear about it.


 
  
 Look at the power differences! They're significant.


----------



## ToTo Man

lenroot77 said:


> I wouldn't just assume the 4490 module will sound like a 4490 Bifrost. It's more about the implementation then the actual chip.
> 
> Similar? Sure it's possible... But it's more about how Schiit has chosen to integrate the chip into the system.


 
  


xuan87 said:


> It will be interesting to compare the $99 DAC module to the Modi, Modi Uber, and Bifrost. I highly believe that the module should sound better than the Modi/ Uber but it becomes less clear with the Bifrost.
> 
> The $99 module sounds like a fantastic deal for having a balanced dac. Yes, the dac chip itself is cheap but don't forget the extra circuitry that goes into accommodating the addition chip. And know Mike, he won't have cut any corners in designing "just a dac module'


 
  


bclark8923 said:


> Hm debating selling my Bifrost 4490 and getting the DAC/Amp version or stacking just the Amp version. Thoughts from anyone who's listened?


 
  


bclark8923 said:


> Anyone have impressions of the DAC vs a Bifrost 4490? The Jot's is balanced and passively filtered vs unbalanced and op amp for the bifrost, but what difference does that make both from an engineering perspective and a sound quality perspective?


 
  
 Has this been answered yet?  I too am interested in how [Bifrost 4490 -> single-ended -> Jotunheim] compares to the Jotunheim's 4490 in balanced configuration.


----------



## Ancipital

thefitz said:


> Look at the power differences! They're significant.


 
  
 My current amp manages 320mW RMS per channel at 300 Ohms, or 160mW at 600 Ohms single ended, so things aren't exactly starving even now. Still, I'm curious to see how other factors affect things, as well as the basic "different amp" factor.


----------



## comzee

ancipital said:


> I'm curious to see how other factors affect things, as well as the basic "different amp" factor.


 
 I didn't notice too much difference (if any, apart from the volume change) with HD800 SE vs Balanced output. 
 With the LCD3f, I did notice a big difference using it balanced, it really fleshed out the sound.
  
 I'm assuming I got these results because LCD3 needs more power.
 HE6 would probably benefit from the balanced output more than any other HP too.


----------



## Ancipital

comzee said:


> I didn't notice too much difference (if any, apart from the volume change) with HD800 SE vs Balanced output.
> With the LCD3f, I did notice a big difference using it balanced, it really fleshed out the sound.
> 
> I'm assuming I got these results because LCD3 needs more power.
> HE6 would probably benefit from the balanced output more than any other HP too.


 
  
 I'm mostly looking forward to sticking some HD650 on there and seeing how SE and the balanced compare. They benefit from throwing ever-nicer amps at them, anyway, obviously. I have other headphones that I'm interested in trying, and I'm looking forward to comparing the Mimby and the Mojo in the SE input too, but it's the HD650 that I'm really curious about. It's crazy, the quality of some of those really sensibly-priced bits, I have to say..


----------



## Hofy

They call it a DAC yet it has no connection for SPDIF or TOSLINK .  Pretty worthless if I can not hook up any of my digital sources.


----------



## jude

hofy said:


> They call it a DAC yet it has no connection for SPDIF or TOSLINK .  Pretty worthless if I can not hook up any of my digital sources.


 
  
 Order it without the module (save $100), and use the DAC you have now instead, or buy a new DAC that has the inputs you need (Schiit sells several, as do many other companies)... Or choose something else entirely that has all you're looking for.
  
 The reality (around here anyway) is that _most_ today are DAC'ing from USB more than any other type of digital input, so, given the module's space limitations, if the designer had to pick one input to go with, USB was the one.


----------



## Vigrith

hofy said:


> They call it a DAC yet it has no connection for SPDIF or TOSLINK .  Pretty worthless if I can not hook up any of my digital sources.


 
  
 Your situation is less than usual nowadays I'd wager - digital audio is more often than not associated with computer audio, at least as far as I'm aware, and USB is by far the most dominant connection in that case. In this day and age if you only have space for one type or can only choose one for whichever reason(s), USB is definitely the way to go to be honest, and Schiit are aware of that.


----------



## Hofy

Having a separate DAC and Amp kind of defeats the goal of this unit.  The only thing I would have that has USB out would be a computer and it is not near the stereo.


----------



## pctazhp

hofy said:


> Having a separate DAC and Amp kind of defeats the goal of this unit.  The only thing I would have that has USB out would be a computer and it is not near the stereo.


 
 It may defeat the purpose for you, but apparently not for many as it is flying off the shelves. They couldn't please everyone and keep it at its size and price point.
  
 I'm personally bummed it doesn't accommodate 8-track tape cartridges !!!


----------



## DKMTech

If USB is handled correctly, it is fast enough to transfer all digital signals in audio more efficiently than other connections. 480MB per second will always be the best way to transfer DSD and DXD. With a good cable and receivers (USB Inputs) you can easily get sound quality on par with the best digital cables / connections available. USB is a great way to transfer digital audio and using an old laptop one can achieve sound quality that only an expensive CD transport just 5 years or so ago could achieve. I believe Schiit made the correct decision to place a USB on this unit.


----------



## Vigrith

hofy said:


> Having a separate DAC and Amp kind of defeats the goal of this unit.  The only thing I would have that has USB out would be a computer and it is not near the stereo.


 
  
 The computer is part of the stereo system for a practically infinite amount of people - Schiit have also said they are big apologists of music streaming which is all done through devices with USB outs. Computers, DAPs, dedicated music servers, phones, tablets, everything, in my opinion there's no reason at all to choose S/PDIF and such over something with such wide outreach as USB.


----------



## thefitz

hofy said:


> They call it a DAC yet it has no connection for SPDIF or TOSLINK .  Pretty worthless if I can not hook up any of my digital sources.


 

 Yep, and I got a short "No." via email when I asked if they planned on making one.


----------



## ColtMrFire

This is a *desktop* amp.  Most people don't have CD players on their desktop, they have computers, so Schiit made a decision that makes sense.  
  
 Skip the DAC and save $100, put that and another $150 toward the Modi multibit, and you have a practically end game rig.


----------



## Ancipital

coltmrfire said:


> This is a *desktop* amp.  Most people don't have CD players on their desktop, they have computers, so Schiit made a decision that makes sense.
> 
> Skip the DAC and save $100, put that and another $150 toward the Modi multibit, and you have a practically end game rig.


 
  
 Grab some silver Lightdims for the Mimby, though, or you will start attracting UFOs.


----------



## bclark8923

toto man said:


> Has this been answered yet?  I too am interested in how [Bifrost 4490 -> single-ended -> Jotunheim] compares to the Jotunheim's 4490 in balanced configuration.


 
  
 I have both in front of me but I have a cold at the moment and my ears aren't working right haha. Quick impressions the Bifrost was a slight bit fuller and more detailed but I'll have to spend some time when I'm not sick to really tell. Testing using my Lime Ears Aether.


----------



## acguitar84

I moved my Jotunheim to the office, and I really miss it on my headphone rig! The mimby into the wa7 is ok, but not like the Jotunheim. What a cool amp! It's about time to order another one lol.


----------



## Letmebefrank

I'm about to put together a 4 pin xlr to stereo 1/4 adapter to a/b the Jotunheim for some folks. Will report back in a few hours.


----------



## Vigrith

acguitar84 said:


> I moved my Jotunheim to the office, and I really miss it on my headphone rig! The mimby into the wa7 is ok, but not like the Jotunheim. What a cool amp! It's about time to order another one lol.


 
  
 You know something's wrong when a Modi MB into the WA7 becomes "ok", LOL. Should be a couple weeks till I receive mine as I've just ordered it yesterday, can't wait.


----------



## ToddRaymond

hofy said:


> They call it a DAC yet it has no connection for SPDIF or TOSLINK .  Pretty worthless if I can not hook up any of my digital sources.


 

 Then I guess you'd better use a different DAC.
  
 EDIT:  Err, I see others have already commented on this.  My bad.  Could'a sworn I refreshed my browser before commenting.


----------



## comzee

vigrith said:


> You know something's wrong when a Modi MB into the WA7 becomes "ok", LOL. Should be a couple weeks till I receive mine as I've just ordered it yesterday, can't wait.


 
 It's unfortunate I might keep having dissenting opinions. To me this is not surprising in the least.
  
 I owned the original WA7 for over a year (I used it amp only). It is the worst $1k amp I've ever heard.
 From my memory of the WA7, the Jotunheim would just kill it.
  
 That's the difference here, Jotun $400 is an exceptional amp, wa7 @ $1000 is super overpriced (in terms of SQ only).
 The WA7 raw materials no doubt cost more than the Jotun, it's heavy heavy. Quite good looking too. But SQ vs SQ, Jotun every day.


----------



## Tom Brim

The excitement about this amp is palpable. Is it crazy that I'm considering ordering one, to go with my yet to be delivered Beyer T1s, before I even hear them paired with my ancient ASL MG Head Mk II amp (Sony HAP S-1 as a source)???


----------



## jfoxvol

I brought the Joti to work today.  I wanted to check on a few things.  I was getting all kind of noise problems on SE inputs at home.  Nothing of the sort at work.  It's dead silent.  So, any initial impressions on running through my home system, I'm going to wait until I can clean up the situation in my home power.  The Joti at work is set up as follows: 
  
 JRiver20 (Wasapi) --> USB --> Wyrd --> Modi MB --> Joti --> Oppo PM-3
  
 It is absolutely sublime.  I can't put this down.  The regular amp I use at work is a Vali 2 w/6CG7.  Both are great.  This is way better on many fronts. It's crystal clear, has a nice punch, and isn't harsh or overly bright.  The Oppos are fantastic headphones and they work extremely well with this setup.  
  
 Once I clean up the dirty power problem at home (I suspect ground loop or some bad ground connection somewhere), I'll post impressions with my home system.


----------



## pdferguson

coltmrfire said:


> This is a *desktop* amp.  Most people don't have CD players on their desktop, they have computers, so Schiit made a decision that makes sense.


 
  
 Not if you're a Mac user. Most recent Macs support Toslink through the 1/8" headphone jack, and using that doesn't tie up a USB port. It also provides complete electrical isolation between the DAC/amp and the Mac, which I consider a very important feature--especially when listening to headphones outside under a tall tree during a lightning storm!
  
 I understand why Schiit chose to support USB first, but I would love to see them add Toslink support, either through a different card or as part of the USB DAC card.


----------



## acguitar84

comzee said:


> It's unfortunate I might keep having dissenting opinions. To me this is not surprising in the least.
> 
> I owned the original WA7 for over a year (I used it amp only). It is the worst $1k amp I've ever heard.
> From my memory of the WA7, the Jotunheim would just kill it.
> ...


 
 Yeah, I definitely prefer the Jotunheim, no doubt about that. I really want to hear the Jotunheim/Yggdrasil combo. Sounds like end game right there. On all three of my systems, both headphone and speaker. As for the WA7, I probably couldn't even give it away now, especially since they released a second generation, so it will probably be relegated to backup status at some point. So odd, but I actually didn't mind the combo of the WA7 and the Concero HD for some reason. So maybe I'll put them together as a backup system when all is said and done.


----------



## Letmebefrank

letmebefrank said:


> I'm about to put together a 4 pin xlr to stereo 1/4 adapter to a/b the Jotunheim for some folks. Will report back in a few hours.


 
  
 So I have completed my adapter cable (neutrik plugs / canare cable) The difference is subtle. There is a noticeable volume decrease on SE, and to make up for it am using the foobar volume control so that a/b is a bit more precise. I have it dialed in to -5db for balanced and -0db for SE. Using high gain for both.
  
 First thing I notice is the air between the instruments. There is slightly better sense of space on balanced. The left/right panning is smoother on the intro to YYZ. Geddy's bass also stands out a bit more on balanced. Everything also has a bit more texture and impact on balanced. I am going to attribute most of this to the increase in power/control and not so much it being "balanced".
  
 The differences besides volume are pretty subtle and I had to give it at least two hours of listening to make sure I was picking up all the differences.


----------



## nerone

hofy said:


> Having a separate DAC and Amp kind of defeats the goal of this unit.  The only thing I would have that has USB out would be a computer and it is not near the stereo.


 

 You could try this http://www.psaudio.com/products/lanrover-usb-transporter/ if you have a network cable near your stereo (powerline lan may work also).
 If you use Jriver, Roon or foobar you can control them remotely with your phone or tablet (other may also work, but these are the ones I'm sure of).
  
 I just don't know its price and if it is already widely available, as I know about it because I was on the list that was offered to beta test.


----------



## XERO1

pdferguson said:


> I understand why Schiit chose to support USB first, but I would love to see them add Toslink support, either through a different card or as part of the current DAC card.


 
  
 What I don't understand is why Schiit doesn't offer a simple RCA input card and make it the default option so that Jot owners can have a second SE input as standard.


----------



## MWSVette

xero1 said:


> What I don't understand is why Schiit doesn't offer a simple RCA input card and make it the default option so that Jot owners can have a second SE input as standard.


 
  
 I have the Jotunheim amp only.  I would have gotten a SE RCA input card.  I could have used that.
  
 Still could hint, hint, hint...


----------



## i20bot

xero1 said:


> What I don't understand is why Schiit doesn't offer a simple RCA input card and make it the default option so that Jot owners can have a second SE input as standard.


 
 Or SPDIF and or Optical input for a little more input variety.


----------



## valarking

I just got mine and hooked it up. First thing I've noticed is that the pre-out doesn't mute when I plug in headphones. Is this intentional?


----------



## XERO1

valarking said:


> I just got mine and hooked it up. First thing I've noticed is that the pre-out doesn't mute when I plug in headphones. Is this intentional?


 
  
 It appears so.  Some Schiit amps do and some don't. 
  
 I actually prefer it when the amp _*doesn't*_ mute its preouts when a headphone is plugged in, but I'm beginning to see there are many who prefer the opposite.
  
 Damned if you do, damned if you don't. 
  
 Of course, Jason could always design them with a switch that gives you the option to choose, as well as a switch that would let you choose between having fixed or variable preouts.


----------



## Cet1

Letmebefrank ---- Thanks - helps a lot - if you have more to say at a later date, say it!  Really like someone telling SE vs Balanced as they really see it!!


----------



## painted klown

coltmrfire said:


> This is a *desktop* amp.  Most people don't have CD players on their desktop, they have computers, so Schiit made a decision that makes sense.
> 
> Skip the DAC and save $100, put that and another $150 toward the Modi multibit, and you have a practically end game rig.


 
 This is what I'd like to do, and plan to do so as funds become available.
  
 For those of you with a Senn HD-600 or 650 and zero soldering skills, Senn does make an official balanced cable for the HD-600/650.
  
 The cable is the Sennheiser CH 650 S. It is a bit expensive (IMO) at $240 USD, but it takes away the pain of learning how to solder, or possibly wiring something up incorrectly and damaging your gear. Just an option for those who may be interested.
  
 I am not entirely sure if there are other third party cables that are lower cost, and they may exist as well.


----------



## valarking

xero1 said:


> It appears so.  Some Schiit amps do and some don't.
> 
> I actually prefer it when the amp _*doesn't*_ mute its preouts when a headphone is plugged in, but I'm beginning to see there are many who prefer the opposite.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Honestly, just a mute button for the pre-outs would help tremendously, especially with XLR outs like these. I don't know of an easy solution to mute my speakers when I'm listening to headphones. So I'm faced with (a) finding some sort of XLR pre that lets me toggle them (b) switching to SE pre-outs and running them through a SYS (c) getting up, walking to each speaker and fumbling for the switch in the back to toggle power every time I switch or (d) returning the Jotun.


----------



## Cet1

> Skip the DAC and save $100, put that and another $150 toward the Modi multibit, and you have a practically end game rig.


 
  
 Wished I had done that - already ordered (and it has shipped) with internal ($100) DAC - Yuck!


----------



## acguitar84

cet1 said:


> Wished I had done that - already ordered (and it has shipped) with internal ($100) DAC - Yuck!


 
 Just so you know, the internal DAC, for 100 bucks, is worth every penny of that and more IMO. While it's not multibit, it's still a good DAC. I got my Jotunheim with the internal DAC, and I'm glad I did. While I save for the end game Yggy, this DAC definitely does the job, and is a huge step up from the m-audiophile 2496 sound card I was using prior. In fact, some students were talking about how good the system sounds now, and that's with the Jotunheim's internal DAC! Once I get a Yggy, it will be nice to know I have a backup DAC in the Jotunheim, a "pinch hitter" as it where. In case the Yggy needs to go in for service, for an update, ect. All in all, IMO 100 bucks well spent.
  
 -edit- I do have a mimby as well, but it's at home, trying it's best to make the WA7 sound halfways decent through headphones, lol.


----------



## darinf

valarking said:


> Honestly, just a mute button for the pre-outs would help tremendously, especially with XLR outs like these. I don't know of an easy solution to mute my speakers when I'm listening to headphones. So I'm faced with (a) finding some sort of XLR pre that lets me toggle them (b) switching to SE pre-outs and running them through a SYS (c) getting up, walking to each speaker and fumbling for the switch in the back to toggle power every time I switch or (d) returning the Jotun.


 
 There's some suggestions for options earlier in this thread.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/818323/schiit-jotunheim-review-preview-head-fi-tv/435#post_12834406
 And a few posts after that for some ideas for controlling powered monitors.


----------



## valarking

Thanks for the link, I'm going to try the Control Freak. Hopefully it gets here by the Schiit return grace period.


----------



## nerone

xero1 said:


> What I don't understand is why Schiit doesn't offer a simple RCA input card and make it the default option so that Jot owners can have a second SE input as standard.



I've sent this suggestion directly to schiit, I think that having at least this as an option would be great for those who want the Jot as a preamp.


----------



## BarDash

I really do enjoy the Jot in the short time I've had it but I really don't understand the comparison with the WA7 Fireflies. I have the "latest version" DAC and amp as well as upgraded tubes and think they are both (Jot & WA7) awesome in their own right but are also totally different in so many ways. It's like comparing apples and oranges...


----------



## bigro

valarking said:


> Thanks for the link, I'm going to try the Control Freak. Hopefully it gets here by the Schiit return grace period.




Someone else on Head fi Mentioned this JBL. I don't remember what thread but it may work to. It Has a Mute button, from my understanding the control freak does not. 

http://www.jblpro.com/www/products/recording-broadcast/monitor-controllers/nano-patch-plus#.V9J6S3qB55M


----------



## anshulbangia

Any comparison with the questyle CMA600i?


----------



## Ancipital

painted klown said:


> This is what I'd like to do, and plan to do so as funds become available.
> 
> For those of you with a Senn HD-600 or 650 and zero soldering skills, Senn does make an official balanced cable for the HD-600/650.
> 
> ...




Alternatively, if you hop on EBay, you can find people who sell reterminated standard HD650 cables for about £30, which isn't a bad option.


----------



## MattTCG

anshulbangia said:


> Any comparison with the questyle CMA600i?




That's a tough one. Current mode amplification in the 600i will have a smoother sound, a little lush even for a solid state amp. The Jodie will be more revealing, accurate and quick. Depends on your preference which one you'd gravitate to. I actually like both very much and it depends on the headphone. 

The dac are very much the same in each amp. No real difference there except possibly the implementation. I don't have the 600i anymore so that aspect is harder to remember.


----------



## ColtMrFire

pdferguson said:


> Not if you're a Mac user. Most recent Macs support Toslink through the 1/8" headphone jack, and using that doesn't tie up a USB port. It also provides complete electrical isolation between the DAC/amp and the Mac, which I consider a very important feature--especially when listening to headphones outside under a tall tree during a lightning storm!
> 
> I understand why Schiit chose to support USB first, but I would love to see them add Toslink support, either through a different card or as part of the USB DAC card.




You can isolate the electrical portion of a usb cable by putting a thin sliver of tape over the power pin, if your DAC doesn't need power or the handshake (or you use a USB decrapifyer with its own power source like the Uptone Regen). I've done it and it improved the sound. But I still found digital coax far superior in my system , so stopped used computer audio entirely.


----------



## ColtMrFire

cet1 said:


> Wished I had done that - already ordered (and it has shipped) with internal ($100) DAC - Yuck!




15 day return policy.


----------



## Allanmarcus

coltmrfire said:


> cet1 said:
> 
> 
> > Wished I had done that - already ordered (and it has shipped) with internal ($100) DAC - Yuck!
> ...




With return shipping, restocking charge, and shipping on a new unit, it's not worth sending a Jot back with a DAC and buying one without. Might be better just trying to sell the DAC card on the classifieds,



coltmrfire said:


> pdferguson said:
> 
> 
> > Not if you're a Mac user. Most recent Macs support Toslink through the 1/8" headphone jack, and using that doesn't tie up a USB port. It also provides complete electrical isolation between the DAC/amp and the Mac, which I consider a very important feature--especially when listening to headphones outside under a tall tree during a lightning storm!
> ...




If you aren't using your computer as a source, what are you using?


----------



## ColtMrFire

Look at my sig.


----------



## Brian D

mwsvette said:


> I have the Jotunheim amp only.  I would have gotten a SE RCA input card.  I could have used that.
> 
> Still could hint, hint, hint...


 
 I'm giving it a bit of time before I order a Jot to see if this is an option, as Jason even mentioned it in the Jot chapter of Schiit happens.


----------



## Letmebefrank

Pic of the adapter I made hooked up to the Jot if anyone was interested.


----------



## Dephezz

Did someone test DT-1770 with Jodie w/DAC? I wonder how does this band perform? Seems like DT-1770 benefits of Jodie's clarity and aggressiveness due to some reviews i've read. Just ordered Jodie, but it'll be a long distance to ship so i wanna ask if someone has already this bundle in action and what are their impressions.


----------



## Sanlitun

Mine came in yesterday, amp only version. I can see where the hype is coming from with the Jot as it is perhaps the most revealing headphone amp I have ever heard (for better or worse). My CMA 800R seems positively colored next to this thing. 
  
 Going to cook it up over the weekend and get the balanced cables out of the closet.


----------



## dglow

letmebefrank said:


> Pic of the adapter I made hooked up to the Jot if anyone was interested.


 
  
  


> letmebefrank said:
> 
> 
> > I'm about to put together a 4 pin xlr to stereo 1/4 adapter to a/b the Jotunheim for some folks. Will report back in a few hours.
> ...


 
  
  
 That's a very nice adaptor! Which cans are you testing with?
  
 If I may, a suggestion: keep the digital volume control unchanged for A/B testing; use the pot on the Joti instead. When you find positions that sound matched, mark the dial with tape to enable moving back & forth quickly. Instant A/B switching isn't an option anyway since you need to unplug/replug the headphones.
  
 Good luck!


----------



## bclark8923

Testing the Bifrost 4490 -> Jotunheim vs Jotunheim via the internal DAC.
  
 1) The Jotunheim's bass is a bit boomier and less controlled
 2) The Bifrost has a bigger sound stage and better separation
 3) Bifrost has a bit more clarity
  
 Glad I tested them out and def decided to keep the Bifrost 4490, now I wish there was a way to get my $100 back >.<


----------



## Letmebefrank

dglow said:


> That's a very nice adaptor! Which cans are you testing with?
> 
> If I may, a suggestion: keep the digital volume control unchanged for A/B testing; use the pot on the Joti instead. When you find positions that sound matched, mark the dial with tape to enable moving back & forth quickly. Instant A/B switching isn't an option anyway since you need to unplug/replug the headphones.
> 
> Good luck!




I'm using the HD650s. From what I've read foobar uses a 32 bit filter for volume control so all of the bits of the original sample are still there after the volume adjustment. Which way is better? I don't know.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Why bother guessing?  Just put digital volume at 100%, adjust using the amp's pot, and you never have to worry.


----------



## Letmebefrank

coltmrfire said:


> Why bother guessing?  Just put digital volume at 100%, adjust using the amp's pot, and you never have to worry.




-48db is only 8 bits, so anything over that and you are still getting 24+ bits out of foobar after the volume control,since it does use a 32 bit processor for volume. 

I imagine that if anything would effect the sound it would be the pot on the amp.


----------



## tekkster

ancipital said:


> I'm mostly looking forward to sticking some HD650 on there and seeing how SE and the balanced compare. They benefit from throwing ever-nicer amps at them, anyway, obviously. I have other headphones that I'm interested in trying, and I'm looking forward to comparing the Mimby and the Mojo in the SE input too, but it's the HD650 that I'm really curious about. It's crazy, the quality of some of those really sensibly-priced bits, I have to say..


 

 Would be interested in hearing your thoughts on the Mojo SE out to Jotunheim SE in -> SE out to HD650.

 I just ordered the Jotunheim, and am curious to try with old Beyer T1 and HD800 (SE, not balanced).

 Happy with the Mojo overall, but to my very bad ears, vocals don't sound so hot, so wondering what connecting through the Jotunheim will change things.  Since I purchased the DAC module as well, curious to compare with and without the Mojo in between.


----------



## grrorr76

tekkster said:


> Would be interested in hearing your thoughts on the Mojo SE out to Jotunheim SE in -> SE out to HD650.
> 
> I just ordered the Jotunheim, and am curious to try with old Beyer T1 and HD800 (SE, not balanced).
> 
> Happy with the Mojo overall, but to my very bad ears, vocals don't sound so hot, so wondering what connecting through the Jotunheim will change things.  Since I purchased the DAC module as well, curious to compare with and without the Mojo in between.


 

 I have the T1 but alas mine are balanced with the amp and it sounds really good. The amp adds some really decent bass which is welcomed. It sounds very detailed and very balanced. It is definitely a good match.


----------



## Vigrith

grrorr76 said:


> I have the T1 but alas mine are balanced with the amp and it sounds really good. The amp adds some really decent bass which is welcomed. It sounds very detailed and very balanced. It is definitely a good match.


 
  
 If there's no brightness and they actually synergize with the T1 then that's really great news, means most other headphones with finnicky treble should work well too!


----------



## dglow

letmebefrank said:


> coltmrfire said:
> 
> 
> > Why bother guessing?  Just put digital volume at 100%, adjust using the amp's pot, and you never have to worry.
> ...


 
 A software volume control changes the bit pattern because that's all software has to work with. Digital volume at < 100 means output that isn't bit-perfect.
 Maybe that matters to you, maybe it doesn't, but it's true either way.
  


> I imagine that if anything would effect the sound it would be the pot on the amp.


 
 Probably not. But consider: your audio runs through that volume pot all the time, regardless. So you may as well use it for A/B trimming – instead of introducing a second volume control into the signal path.
  
 And FWIW I've heard the volume pot on the Jotunheim and Gungnir is actually a high-quality part and very nice.


----------



## tekkster

grrorr76 said:


> I have the T1 but alas mine are balanced with the amp and it sounds really good. The amp adds some really decent bass which is welcomed. It sounds very detailed and very balanced. It is definitely a good match.




Good info, thx. I read that the se doesn't send as much power but maybe i'll have similar results with the se port. Looking forward to it.


----------



## ToTo Man

bclark8923 said:


> Testing the Bifrost 4490 -> Jotunheim vs Jotunheim via the internal DAC.
> 
> 1) The Jotunheim's bass is a bit boomier and less controlled
> 2) The Bifrost has a bigger sound stage and better separation
> ...


 
 Thanks for this.  Was this test done using the Jot's balanced headphone output? [size=x-small]Be interested to know if the performance gap narrows after the Jot's internal DAC has burned-in for a few days[/size][size=small]...[/size]


----------



## Tom Brim

I'm assuming I'm out of luck in terms of using the Jot DAC with my Sony HAP S-1 source since it only has RCA jacks out?


----------



## Ggroch

bclark8923 said:


> Testing the Bifrost 4490 -> Jotunheim vs Jotunheim via the internal DAC.
> 
> 1) The Jotunheim's bass is a bit boomier and less controlled
> 2) The Bifrost has a bigger sound stage and better separation
> ...


 
 Perhaps if you test them again double-blind it will go the other way and you can return the 4490 and feel better.  
  
 No offense meant, but hearing significant differences between 2 DAC cards using the same chip from the same retail manufacturer? Unless you do it multiple times totally double blind at the exact same levels with the same results...I am skeptical.    At least, I would not base my purchase decisions on someone else's "test" unless they did it this way.  
  
 Look, we all give our opinions here...that's fine. Its a fun hobby and we should try new stuff and keep what makes us happy.  I think the Jot sounds tremendous and it makes me happy. 
  
 However,  I also believe in measurement and the measurement differences between 2 examples of 4490 DACs will be so tiny relative to other factors.....unless the manufacturer purposely detuned one to get a "house sound" and in this case its the same house.  
  
 Innerfidelity's 2015 Big Sound test did not include DACs for a reason.  Trained professionals could not hear differences to a statistically significant degree.  
  
 OOOOOPsss....crash...  Just fell off of my too-tall soapbox


----------



## Guidostrunk




----------



## Ggroch

tom brim said:


> I'm assuming I'm out of luck in terms of using the Jot DAC with my Sony HAP S-1 source since it only has RCA jacks out?


 
 No, but as per my previous post, you could certainly use the HAP S-1 Direct DAC analog out into the Jot's Line in, and enjoy the HAP source through the Jot amp. The Direct Out is specifically designed for this...to go into another/better amp.  This should provide you with 97% of the Jot's benefits over the HAP.  
  
 I have a Sony UDA-1 and both it and the HAP are rated to have a great dac..and not quite as good built in headphone amp.  The differences I hear I attribute to the amp part not the DAC part. 
  
 Unless of course I am listening to DSD files.....noticeable difference on those cause the Sony plays them


----------



## bclark8923

toto man said:


> Thanks for this.  Was this test done using the Jot's balanced headphone output? Be interested to know if the performance gap narrows after the Jot's internal DAC has burned-in for a few days...




Just SE


----------



## Allanmarcus

tom brim said:


> I'm assuming I'm out of luck in terms of using the Jot DAC with my Sony HAP S-1 source since it only has RCA jacks out?




Correct. 



ggroch said:


> tom brim said:
> 
> 
> > I'm assuming I'm out of luck in terms of using the Jot DAC with my Sony HAP S-1 source since it only has RCA jacks out?
> ...




I too have the UDA-1, which unfortunately has a very mediocre rated DAC (not sure why you think the UDA-1 DAC is highly rated, unless you are reading Sony press releases). The UDA-1 is very rolled off and warm, so I'm thinking the Jot's ability to punch out the detail might be a good combo. I'm just afraid the UDA is not only rolled off, but not very detailed, so the ability of the Jot to punch out some detail when the DAC is not providing it is not possible. What hi-fi recommends not using the USB on the UDA-1 and that the other inputs are better on this amp, so maybe I'll try those. 

So then I think why not just use the UDA-1 for my speakers and get a JoMimby combo, and that leads me down the potentially strident path. I have an HA-1 now, and that can be a little on the dry side. Maybe I need audio-Gd equipment. 

Too many choices! Good thing RMAF is right around the corner.


----------



## Ggroch

allanmarcus said:


> Correct.
> I too have the UDA-1, which unfortunately has a very mediocre rated DAC (not sure why you think the UDA-1 DAC is highly rated, unless you are reading Sony press releases). The UDA-1 is very rolled off and warm, so I'm thinking the Jot's ability to punch out the detail might be a good combo. I'm just afraid the UDA is not only rolled off, but not very detailed, so the ability of the Jot to punch out some detail when the DAC is not providing it is not possible. What hi-fi recommends not using the USB on the UDA-1 and that the other inputs are better on this amp, so maybe I'll try those.
> 
> So then I think why not just use the UDA-1 for my speakers and get a JoMimby combo, and that leads me down the potentially strident path. I have an HA-1 now, and that can be a little on the dry side. Maybe I need audio-Gd equipment.


 
 Based on my experience with my UDA-1 and my Joti the difference in improved detail and more accurate frequency response using a CCA though the Sony optical inputs is very noticable...so you may be surprised.  I have not directly compared the USB inputs on both.
  
 The What-Hifi article makes no mention of every using the Digital Direct Out...only the out through the headphone or speaker amp, which I agree is warm.    
  
 You are an RMAC guy....great, may see you there (its easy I'm from Denver).   The post I responded to questioned whether it would be useless to consider playing from his HAP source, which comes pre-loaded with DSD files through a Jot.   I think it  will not at all be useless based on my experience with both Joti and UDA-1 and doing it.


----------



## scottcocoabeach

ggroch said:


> Perhaps if you test them again double-blind it will go the other way and you can return the 4490 and feel better.
> 
> No offense meant, but hearing significant differences between 2 DAC cards using the same chip from the same retail manufacturer? Unless you do it multiple times totally double blind at the exact same levels with the same results...I am skeptical.    At least, I would not base my purchase decisions on someone else's "test" unless they did it this way.
> 
> However,  I also believe in measurement and the measurement differences between 2 examples of 4490 DACs will be so tiny relative to other factors.....unless the manufacturer purposely detuned one to get a "house sound" and in this case its the same...




Look at the pictures of the Jot add on card on Schiit's website and then look at the internals in a Bifrost. You really expect them to sound the same?

In that case I guess the Bimby should sound the same as the Gumby if they are both used Single Ended. 

Sorry, but I don't think so. The chip used is only one small part of a DAC design, there are many other factors that will affect the sound. Personally I appreciate the comparison from the OP.


----------



## lenroot77

ggroch said:


> Perhaps if you test them again double-blind it will go the other way and you can return the 4490 and feel better.
> 
> No offense meant, but hearing significant differences between 2 DAC cards using the same chip from the same retail manufacturer? Unless you do it multiple times totally double blind at the exact same levels with the same results...I am skeptical.    At least, I would not base my purchase decisions on someone else's "test" unless they did it this way.
> 
> ...




Oh boy here we go....


----------



## MWSVette

lenroot77 said:


> Oh boy here we go....


----------



## franzdom

All this talk about the DAC apparently there is no question about the Amp's quality, value, or place in a good system?
 I am so tempted to put one next to my Lyr on top of the Yggy!


----------



## Allanmarcus

lenroot77 said:


> ggroch said:
> 
> 
> > Perhaps if you test them again double-blind it will go the other way and you can return the 4490 and feel better.
> ...


 

 As much as I agree with DBT, we aren't supposed to talk bout that here. This thread is for unsubstantiated personal impressions, not fact based scientific reproducible testing. Please take your "facts" and "science" over to the Sound Science forum. Let's keep this thread pure with impressions and feelings.
  

  
  


ggroch said:


> allanmarcus said:
> 
> 
> > Correct.
> ...


 

 I never talked about using the UDA-1's digital out either.
  
 I just spend some time comparing the UDA-1 optical vs USB. I could not tell the difference. I also tried setting Audio Midi to 192/24 on one and both interfaces, and I prefer the up-sampled sound. Maybe the DAC in the UDA-1 is better with higher res input, which wort of makes sense. In fact, I would't put it past Sony to have engineered it that way on purpose.
  
 I guess I just need to hear the JoMimby myself and make a decision. RMAF and then another opportunity in LA in Nov. I hope we can meet in person at RMAF.


----------



## acguitar84

For what it's worth (and probably isn't worth very much..lol) I'm enjoying the Jotunheim's DAC out at the office quite a bit! I eventually want to get either a gumby or a yggy out here (still don't know which and am in a wishy washy fashion going back and forth and back and forth on that), and hook it up to Jotunheim with xlr cables. But until then, the little 100 dollar DAC is the little engine that could. It sounds pretty darn good! In a time where I've seen DACs list for nearly 90 grand, it's cool to have a 100 dollar DAC do an admirable (IMHO) job.


----------



## AeonSwitch

Hi everyone,
 i'm a newbie in the audio enthusiast world and i was stuck for months with an Audio Engine D1 driving a pair of HD650 without any external amp (i know it's not a good setup at all but i had no idea at the time).
 I really consider the Jotunheim since it's a powerful amp and it's the only one with an integrated dac.
 I would like to know if it pairs well with the HD650 and if i need to purchase an XLR cable in ordre to drive it properly.
 I'm expecting a lot from this schiit since it would be my first one, can't wait to try it out !


----------



## scottcocoabeach

franzdom said:


> All this talk about the DAC apparently there is no question about the Amp's quality, value, or place in a good system?
> I am so tempted to put one next to my Lyr on top of the Yggy!




I've got one connected to my Gumby and they sound great together. I say go for it!


----------



## scottcocoabeach

aeonswitch said:


> Hi everyone,
> i'm a newbie in the audio enthusiast world and i was stuck for months with an Audio Engine D1 driving a pair of HD650 without any external amp (i know it's not a good setup at all but i had no idea at the time).
> 
> I really consider the Jotunheim since it's a powerful amp and it's the only one with an integrated dac.
> ...




It should be a very good pairing. You don't "need" a balanced cable to have enough power for the HD650's, it should work fine single ended. However, you may notice some improvements going balanced so it may be worthwhile to try it.


----------



## audiobot

scottcocoabeach said:


> It should be a very good pairing. You don't "need" a balanced cable to have enough power for the HD650's, it should work fine single ended. However, you may notice some improvements going balanced so it may be worthwhile to try it.


 

 would these improvements matter if u are just going to listen to songs from apple music/spotify? Or would multibit matter as well if just listening to apple music from my macbook?


----------



## Allanmarcus

audiobot said:


> scottcocoabeach said:
> 
> 
> > It should be a very good pairing. You don't "need" a balanced cable to have enough power for the HD650's, it should work fine single ended. However, you may notice some improvements going balanced so it may be worthwhile to try it.
> ...


 

 Probably not. It all depends on your sensitive and trained your ears are, and how analytical you are in your listening.


----------



## audiobot

allanmarcus said:


> Probably not. It all depends on your sensitive and trained your ears are, and how analytical you are in your listening.


 
 great thanks.


----------



## Xcalibermj

I own a Chord Mojo which I use with my HD800s. Was wondering if the Jotunheim with balanced out is an upgrade to my setup. I would also appreciate if anyone has compared the optional DAC board with that of Mojo connected to the Jotunheim. Thanks


----------



## scottcocoabeach

audiobot said:


> would these improvements matter if u are just going to listen to songs from apple music/spotify? Or would multibit matter as well if just listening to apple music from my macbook?




You would probably notice more of a difference moving to a multibit DAC than you would going from SE to balanced. The more resolving your headphones the more noticeable each of these differences will be. Your source also affects final sound quality - this includes both file quality and the transport used.


----------



## audiobot

cool. thanks.


----------



## gancanjam

Any comparison of Jott with Alo continental V5 ? which will pair well with HEK ?


----------



## Ancipital

cet1 said:


> Above all these changes from SE to Balance cabling, the question still is - Is there a NOTICEABLE sound difference to one's ears???  If so, what?  I would love to go balanced but haven't heard from anyone on exactly what the difference is.  Several have speculated here and on other forums, but there hasn't been a great number who have real experience with a/b'ing SE vs balanced with the Jodie.  That's what I want to read about!


 
  
 OK, let me take a crack at this- I have been spending time with the HD650 and the Jotenheim. I have two standard HD650 cables (the long rubbery 3m long ones), one reterminated as XLR.
  
 First up, this amp sounds great SE, make no mistake about it. Some amps that offer SE and balanced might sound drastically better balanced just because they aren't quite powerful enough in SE. Although I don't own any HE6 or similarly notoriously hard to drive headphones, the HD650 require a fair bit to sound _good_, and they sound just fine through the SE output. It's a really clean, resolving and fast amp. If this was an SE-only amp, it'd still sound like a pretty good deal.
  
 The difference with balanced isn't, as some excitable souls like to claim (about nearly everything) "night and day". However, it's noticeable- a general increase in fine detail across the board. 
  
 I wasn't able to do a direct blind comparison between the cables (as I don't think my partner would have been amused with my nonsense). Instead, what I did was try to measure indirectly- asses  what the effect was on my ABX scores- if there was a repeatable difference, this felt like a good indication that I was really hearing more with balanced rather than just imagining it..
  
 So I ran up a quick and dirty lossless vs 256k AAC ABX of Macy Gray's "Stripped" (I forget which tracks), using the Foobar ABX plugin. After lots of tedious rounds of ABX with SE, and then balanced, the results were a lot higher than guesswork for the balanced, and markedly closer to it for unbalanced. I totally didn't throw the bit of paper away while clearing up a tea spill on my desk, ahem. Sorry for not having the actual numbers to hand, but I really don't want to go though that again!
  
 Given that the gods of tea have reduced my slightly weird attempt to indirectly test that there is a difference to windy anecdote, the best suggestion is to suggest that you go and listen to something with xylophones low in the mix, oddly. "Word On The Wing" by Bowie works well- you will hear the impact at the start of the note far more clearly- especially if you're using headphones normally regarded as "slow".
  
 It's a small difference- if you already have a good SE amp that gives you a sound you're happy with, don't assume that going balanced will magically beat it. A good amp is a good amp, and that's the most important part. For me, the Jotenheim was an upgrade, SE or balanced- and its SE mode has enough power for any of my headphones. The fact that I can get a marginally better sound with a balanced cable (and that pretty much all my headphones are easy to run balanced) is just icing on the cake.
  
 (Also, note.. I am using a Mimby into the SE in, which works really well as a combo. I don't need to waste time extolling the bang/buck of that particular component, though.. )


----------



## Vigrith

ancipital said:


> OK, let me take a crack at this- I have been spending time with the HD650 and the Jotenheim.


 
  
 I understand the review is positive in general but I wonder since you didn't go into specifics - do you feel it synergizes well with the HD650 specifically, or does it just sound good as you'd expect it to?


----------



## Ancipital

vigrith said:


> I understand the review is positive in general but I wonder since you didn't go into specifics - do you feel it synergizes well with the HD650 specifically, or does it just sound good as you'd expect it to?


 
  
 I'd probably be inclined to say "a little from each column". Conventional wisdom is that the HD650 sounds stellar fed from a decent tube amp, rather than an SS amp.. though I'm not sure what the mechanism there is.
  
 However, the HD650 does very specifically seem to go unusually well with the Jot- it's a hell of a sound for what it costs. The HD650 can sound (dead horse alert) a little "veiled" with a slower amp, and the Jotenheim seems to bulldoze through that, and much better than you might expect of an SS amp at that price.
  
 That suits me, as I don't have the space or patience for a separate tube amp right now. I can retain the simplicity and flexibility of an SS amp, with a ludicrously low output impedance _and_ tons of power, without breaking the bank. It's a surprising value proposition- it is clean, fast, powerful and balanced, all for a distinctly sane price.
  
 That said, I'm sure it sounds lovely with more exotic headphones- if you had some spare Focal Utopias to lend me, I'm sure I'd enjoy taking them for a spin


----------



## Vigrith

ancipital said:


> That said, I'm sure it sounds lovely with more exotic headphones- if you had some spare Focal Utopias to lend me, I'm sure I'd enjoy taking them for a spin


 
  
 Oh believe me I wish I did haha, those are far and away out from my budget as well unfortunately.
  
 I own a couple headphones that are "better" (read: more expensive) than the HD650, soon to include the Elear that I have pre-ordered and will be receiving within the near future as soon as the Focals are released in Europe. Reason I asked about the 650s was because I mostly use them at the office and am very fond of their non fatiguing, smooth signature (hence I use them at work) which is where I'd be placing the Jotunheim (at least initially as home's already occupied by a Mjolnir 2), I've been wanting to upgrade that setup and had been set on getting a Valhalla 2 prior to this new release but all things considered I've ordered a Jotun instead - its versatility is akin the MJ2's in that it is much more flexible than an OTL like the V2, being future proof is a virtue I value very highly in these cases.
  
 The priceerformance offered by the Jotunheim is unreal I'm sure, no doubt in my mind there, I'm just curious as to how it'll perform with headphones that are notorious for sounding their best with tubes (HD650, HD800, T90, etc, all of which I own) as its been described as being very powerful and quite forward/exciting.
  
 Looking forward to receiving mine!


----------



## audiobot

ancipital said:


> OK, let me take a crack at this- I have been spending time with the HD650 and the Jotenheim. I have two standard HD650 cables (the long rubbery 3m long ones), one reterminated as XLR.
> 
> First up, this amp sounds great SE, make no mistake about it. Some amps that offer SE and balanced might sound drastically better balanced just because they aren't quite powerful enough in SE. Although I don't own any HE6 or similarly notoriously hard to drive headphones, the HD650 require a fair bit to sound _good_, and they sound just fine through the SE output. It's a really clean, resolving and fast amp. If this was an SE-only amp, it'd still sound like a pretty good deal.
> 
> ...


 

 so thankful for this post since i am awaiting the hd650. awesome! cheers.


----------



## ProtegeManiac

Anyone know if the Jotunheim's DAC board can work with Android?


----------



## kehorton

Has anyone with a Polaris compared it with a Jotun? I've been really liking my Bimby >> Polaris >> modded HE500, but it's been my impression (and from hours parsing others' impressions) that pretty much all planars love the juice. Makes me wonder what this setup could do with some Jotun. power .

Planar phones really remind me of low impedence low dbspl speakers, like my old Thiels. Having that power reserve available when they need those bursts for transients, extension, slam, just makes that last bit of difference.


----------



## ColtMrFire

vigrith said:


> .
> The priceerformance offered by the Jotunheim is unreal I'm sure, no doubt in my mind there, I'm just curious as to how it'll perform with headphones that are notorious for sounding their best with tubes (HD650, HD800, T90, etc, all of which I own) as its been described as being very powerful and quite forward/exciting.
> 
> Looking forward to receiving mine!


 
  
 I own the T90 with the Valhalla 2 and it's a match made in heaven.  Can you let us know how they sound with the Jotun when you receive it?  Thanks.


----------



## bclark8923

ggroch said:


> Perhaps if you test them again double-blind it will go the other way and you can return the 4490 and feel better.
> 
> No offense meant, but hearing significant differences between 2 DAC cards using the same chip from the same retail manufacturer? Unless you do it multiple times totally double blind at the exact same levels with the same results...I am skeptical.    At least, I would not base my purchase decisions on someone else's "test" unless they did it this way.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I mean I'm a believer in it's usually super small differences, but there's a lot of factors that could result in different sounds than the chips. I mean it may even be the fact that the Jotunheim one is technically better but I like the Bifrost sound better. Both 4490 chips will sound the same but there's a lot more in DACs plus the way that they connect to the amp that make it sound different but not always better/worse.
  
 That being said I'm happy to get a friend to help me do a blind test!


----------



## Ancipital

ggroch said:


> Innerfidelity's 2015 Big Sound test did not include DACs for a reason.  Trained professionals could not hear differences to a statistically significant degree.
> 
> OOOOOPsss....crash...  Just fell off of my too-tall soapbox


 
  
 Hah, if I'm allowed to choose which of my amps I'm using, I can hear the difference reasonably reliably between my two (highly rated, non-D/S) DACs. I can't for the life of me work out why, though. I wouldn't dare try the same trick on a TOTL amp, though, you'd get to point and laugh, and rightly so.
  
 I do suspect that a suitably rigged demonstration could be hashed up that would convince even you, though- with a particularly bad D/S DAC with tizzy highs and a nicely-implemented R2R DAC (with maybe the original CD master of Nirvana's "Nevermind", which has wince-inducing cymbals). Yes, that is deliberately gaming things in an outrageous manner- but the differences between good quality DACs _are _often quite slight. However, a bad DAC _can _sound bad. Unless I misunderstand greatly, which is possible, your stance is that DACs don't sound noticeably different. This puzzles me, as there are plenty of DACs (from the "sounds like ass" category) which measure less well as well as do less well subjectively, I suspect. Maybe I misunderstand?
  
 However, I did like the rest of your post (which I blatantly snipped rather than quoted)- it serves as a model of how to courteously request a little objectivity- and I don't mean that sarcastically. I feel bad that I am ascribing woowoo magic powers to myself without a rational explanation for them, or a sound theoretical basis. However, I will not hesitate to turn you into a frog unless you recant post-haste


----------



## Ggroch

Haaa!   I mean "croak"
  
 bclark8923 and ancipital,  Thanks for your well thought out responses.  We have so far avoided the spectacle most were anticipating after my 1st perhaps too pointed message. 
  
 I totally agree that some (perhaps many) people can hear differences between DACs, at least those that differ greatly either in design or cost.
  
 But I also think that all of us, myself included, distinguish differences that are based somewhat on our ears, and somewhat on our emotions.  That helps explain the pile of dacs/amps on my shelf which I do not really want to blind test.
  
 My Innerfidelity Big Sound reference compared absolute top of the line components...and the experts overall could not reliably distinguish between the DACS. (Tyll as a result recommends the Schiit YGGDRASIL as the best choice for most people because it sounds as good as any of them and was by far the cheapest).  
  
The Big Sound posts are an interesting read.  In particular, his *"What I learned" *post is the best I have read concerning both blind testing…and the important topic of which components matter most, 
  
 He talks about why we become passionate about the gear we love even if the differences between them and other similar choices may be small and not distinguishable in blind tests.    He was surprised by how blind testing by these expert golden ears changed how they viewed their previous opinions. 
  
 Headphones have the biggest performance differences by far, then amps, then Dacs.  I think that is the most important takeaway and something to consider if you are designing a system and have limited resources.    The distortion components of transducers (speakers and headphones) are often in the 1% to 30% range.   Look at the specs of any of the Schiit Dacs…. .0002%  distortion.
  
 Knowing that I am pleased my pile of headphones is the largest pile. My irrational choices are at least aligned dollar wise with those who make rational ones.


----------



## Ancipital

Ggroch, 
  
 Ugh, now it sounds like we sort of agree, how awful. 
  
 I think what you're actually doing is saying that paying the price of a car for a DAC is folly, and that it won't be N times better than a perfectly splendid (and still non-trivially priced) Yggy. I'm totally sanguine about that as an assertion- and moreover, suspect that once you get over a certain level of quality and accuracy, the differences do indeed become largely moot, and yes, I'd be shocked if most people could pull off a meaningful listening test, unless some of the units were actually faulty/sub-standard by design.
  
 However, I only normally have about tree fiddy to spend on a DAC, usually, and quite a few in my price range don't sound quite pristine. At that point, exactly what you go for can be important. There are differences that can not only be heard, but heard reliably blind, and measured- as _some stuff really sucks_.
  
 (For the purposes of disclosure, I use a Modi Multibit, and sometimes a Mojo, and am pretty happy with that, for now. Maybe one day, I might want a balanced DAC, just for obsessive consistency reasons.)
  
 Had I been less of a lazy arse, and followed the links, I wouldn't have had to goad you into explaining, I suppose 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 "Headphones have the biggest performance differences by far, then amps, then DACs." is totally true and rational.
 The other useful rule of thumb to remember when seeking to improve the performance of a system (be it a server farm, governement, or anything else), is to look at the biggest bottleneck to performance and try addressing that first. Work out what's holding you back from getting the results that you want/think you should, and identify ways to change that. If it works, you then have smaller problems to chase, and can keep doing so well into diminishing returns, with a little luck.
  
 I have just upgraded my amp, as it was holding my headphones back- it was the biggest bottleneck, and thus it's the bit that I changed. Keeping the same amp, and adding a DAC that cost ten times more would have been the height of folly!


----------



## Guidostrunk

"tree fiddy"


----------



## franzdom

Wait, Yggy doesn't cost as much as a car?


----------



## Maelob

It cost as much as my 2000 civic


----------



## bclark8923

ggroch said:


> Haaa!   I mean "croak"
> 
> bclark8923 and ancipital,  Thanks for your well thought out responses.  We have so far avoided the spectacle most were anticipating after my 1st perhaps too pointed message.
> 
> ...


 
  
 So for reference I downgraded from a Gumby to the Bifrost 4490 and I'm perfectly happy, but the loss in quality I heard from bifrost to jot dac was enough for me to keep the bifrost, so I'm also a believer in this after a point, each persons ears/point can be different.


----------



## Ancipital

franzdom said:


> Wait, Yggy doesn't cost as much as a car?


 
  
 I suppose it depends on how pimpin' your cars usually are, to an extent


----------



## Ggroch

bclark8923 said:


> So for reference I downgraded from a Gumby to the Bifrost 4490 and I'm perfectly happy, but the loss in quality I heard from bifrost to jot dac was enough for me to keep the bifrost, so I'm also a believer in this after a point, each persons ears/point can be different.


 
 Getting to "Perfectly Happy" is the goal...so good on you.
  
 I believe that the differences we hear are based at least as much on our expectations as on our ears. Humans are kind of hard wired to experience what we expect to experience.
  
 I offer 2 items as evidence:
  
 1. *Youtube video of JJ Johnson* who is an engineer at DTS.  You can jump in a 1:00 minute and end at about 5:00 minutes for the relevant section. 
  
 2. The Monster Cable effect.  For a long time one aspect of my job was either selling Monster Cable or teaching others to do so.  There is considerable doubt as to whether speaker wires and patch cords make an audible difference. So after selling a $100 patch cord I always expected a good percentage of the buyers to return them saying they could not hear a difference.   It almost never happened.  After buying into the Monster concept and spending the money they DID hear a difference. I hear the difference too.  But whether the benefits I hear are based on my ears or my expectations...I am not so sure, and perhaps it does not matter. 
  
 BTW- If you have Lime Ears customs your investment in the stuff that matters most is very well aligned in my view.
  
 I promise my next post will be totally on topic about my Joty...which i absolutely love.


----------



## stigin

If I understand correct, choosing the none option just adds a blank plate to the back right. I would like to propose and extra module to add:
  
 A simple pass trough extra "Single-Ended RCA" entrance would allow to add another entrance (for instance a record player -> MC > -> Mani -> Jotunheim).


----------



## Ancipital

stigin said:


> If I understand correct, choosing the none option just adds a blank plate to the back right. I would like to propose and extra module to add:
> 
> A simple pass trough extra "Single-Ended RCA" entrance would allow to add another entrance (for instance a record player -> MC > -> Mani -> Jotunheim).


 
  
 There is already a phono module available for that slot.
  
 That said, it's not a new suggestion, either- a lot of people would like an additional SE line in as an option there.


----------



## sheldaze

stigin said:


> If I understand correct, choosing the none option just adds a blank plate to the back right. I would like to propose and extra module to add:
> 
> A simple pass trough extra "Single-Ended RCA" entrance would allow to add another entrance (for instance a record player -> MC > -> Mani -> Jotunheim).


 
 Also, it does not add a plate - just a sticker, which reads RESERVED FOR OPTIONAL INPUT CARD.


----------



## Ancipital

sheldaze said:


> Also, it does not add a plate - just a sticker, which reads RESERVED FOR OPTIONAL INPUT CARD.


 
 I'm not entirely sure who you're talking to now.


----------



## sheldaze

ancipital said:


> I'm not entirely sure who you're talking to now.


 
 My apologies. Put the quote in the wrong place.


----------



## bclark8923

Probably gonna stick my audio setup here for quite awhile  
  
 Wyrd -> bifrost 4490 -> Jotunheim


----------



## Allanmarcus

The optional input boards looks like they interface with the main unit via 5 pairs of pins in the back. Assuming 1 pair is for power and 2 pairs are for DAC input (I2S maybe?) and two pairs for the phono pre-amp. One of these pairs (assuming I've guess right about how they are used) might be able to be repurposed as a simply line in. Might even be a good DIY project, assuming Schiit would reveal the pin outs for the input pins, or assuming someone could reverse engineer it.


----------



## Argo Duck

ggroch said:


> snip... *I believe that the differences we hear are based at least as much on our expectations as on our ears. Humans are kind of hard wired to experience what we expect to experience.*
> ...snip...
> 2. The Monster Cable effect.  For a long time one aspect of my job was either selling Monster Cable or teaching others to do so.  There is considerable doubt as to whether speaker wires and patch cords make an audible difference. So after selling a $100 patch cord I always expected a good percentage of the buyers to return them saying they could not hear a difference.   It almost never happened.  After buying into the Monster concept and spending the money they DID hear a difference. I hear the difference too.  But whether the benefits I hear are based on my ears or my expectations...I am not so sure, and perhaps it does not matter.
> ...
> I promise my next post will be totally on topic about my Joty...which i absolutely love.




Good post. But on the off-topic(!) topic of 'expectation bias', this is a complex, multi-part construct. *Btw, this is off topic and most may wish to skip it.*

I'm by no means expert on this specifically, but two aspects I've used directly in my psych labs in years past are: ambiguous stimuli; cognitive priming.

The first concerns sense data right at the threshold of our perception. A suitable instrument would reliably pick the signal, but we can't (reliably). Thus we might end up calling A better than B half the time, and B better than A the other half. Which in a blind test would report as "no difference". What's the punchline? Well, here indeed contextual factors come into play and may influence one to - for example - hear or not hear a difference strongly in one direction or the other.

The second though concerns activation of long-term memory structures once 'primed' with a suitable stimulus. Talking about words, the word "blue" might prime us to associations such as "Sky", "sad", "Miles Davis" etc. In cognitive testing, this priming is reflected in faster responses. The take home message? *Being primed doesn't mean one sees/hears/tastes/whatever things that aren't there*. However, it _would_ focus attention on primed rather than unprimed aspects. For example, the 'good' features of Monster's cable ("hear a difference"?!) rather than its 'bad' ones (price? :eek.

Of course the two effects - ambiguity and priming - can interact. No doubt the same with other components of expectation (money spent == reduction of cognitive dissonance etc). It gets messier from here...

Just a follow-up comment and my last word on the subject. On topic, I definitely see a Joti in my future


----------



## Ggroch

argo duck said:


> .......Talking about words, the word "blue" might prime us to associations such as "Sky", "sad", "Miles Davis" etc. In cognitive testing, this priming is reflected in faster responses. The take home message? *Being primed doesn't mean one sees/hears/tastes/whatever things that aren't there*. However, it _would_ focus attention on primed rather than unprimed aspects...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
   Ahhh, perhaps a reason so few companies pick names like Schiit. 
  
 Since we're discussing Joty feature/mod options.   As I understand it, since Joty is a fully balanced design, those of us who are using it primarily with single ended phones are wasting 1/2 of the power and circuitry.
  
 So I get to thinking, why waste. Why not add a 2nd, perhaps 3.5mm SE jack so you can power 2 pair at once.  How hard could that be?
  
 So I brought my new Joty to my next door neighbor who is a whiz at this stuff and here is the result:

  
  
  
  
  
  
  
_*........Just kidding.*_  Back on _*post 434*_ I ordered a pack of "Light Dims" so the LED would not blind me and went for black cause it matches the input jacks.  It looks and works great I think, I can still see the LED in a brightly lit room but it does not blind me with the lights down.  Only problem is I have 69 more of them to find uses for.
  
 So, could a 2nd SE jack be added to use the extra power potential?


----------



## kevin gilmore

looks like 10 pins
  
 2 pins for L+ and L-
 2 pins for R+ and R-
 1 pin for analog GND (maybe more)
 1 pin for digital power (3.3 or 5V)
 2 pins for analog power (+/-5 to +/-15)
 1 pin for digital ground
  
 best guess


----------



## Allanmarcus

kevin gilmore said:


> looks like 10 pins
> 
> 2 pins for L+ and L-
> 2 pins for R+ and R-
> ...


 

 If I do my math correct, 5 pairs = 10 pins 
  
 I'm leaning towards your guess since there would be no need for I2S; there is just a need to transfer balanced analog signal. Now if we could just get Schiit to release specs


----------



## kevin gilmore

seriously, this should take you less than 10 minutes with a voltmeter to figure out.


----------



## MattTCG

Wow KG in the house. Have you had a chance to hear the Joti?


----------



## painted klown

ggroch said:


> 1. *Youtube video of JJ Johnson* who is an engineer at DTS.  You can jump in a 1:00 minute and end at about 5:00 minutes for the relevant section.


 
 For those of you even remotely interested, please watch this video in its entirety. It is excellent, to say the least. I have watched it a couple of times now, and it is worth viewing all the way through. 
  
 Also, please watch this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-lN8vWm3m0 regarding the McGurk effect. Also excellent IMO.


----------



## rovopio

ancipital said:


> However, the HD650 does very specifically seem to go unusually well with the Jot- it's a hell of a sound for what it costs. The HD650 can sound (dead horse alert) a little "veiled" with a slower amp, and the Jotenheim seems to bulldoze through that, and much better than you might expect of an SS amp at that price.


 
  
 Just a quick question to you, are you talking about the Jotunheim-hd650 pairing when you put it on the Balanced mode or does the SE also "bulldoze through that" as well?


----------



## gto88

Have Jotunheim (amp only) for two days now.
 I did a quick comparison with Audio-GD NFB-1AMP with HE-1000.
 The Jotunheim right out of box competes head to head without falling behind at all.
 By $120 less, and a little shy of power, it does a good job and is a good choice at sub $500.
 But, NFB-1AMP has more interface makes it a versatile role in a system.
 My NFB-1AMP has more hours on, I'll see if Jotunheim  surpass it after a while.


----------



## Maelob

off topic but wow!


----------



## ClintonL

Just wondering how does this pair up with the hd800's? What dac/amp equiv is this equal too. Would it be an asgard + modi 2 uber or better. 
  
 Cheers


----------



## Dephezz

Guyz, do you think its worth to spend 130$ to add iFi iPurifier 2 to Jodie's DAC? Or does it smell like SQ paranoia over here? 
 The point is that i didnt want to buy Modi multibit, because i want to try out Jodies internal DAC and wait for Schiit to upgrade their mid-price dac.
 But for now i'm looking for maximum quality for USB->DAC chain.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ I like to add one piece at a time, learning the sound of my system at each stage. Doing too much too quickly, one misses a lot of learning. What makes a big difference, what makes little or no difference...

IOW, I personally would wait a good while before adding _anything_ to Jodi's DAC. YMMV of course.


----------



## Starcruncher

argo duck said:


> ^ I like to add one piece at a time, learning the sound of my system at each stage. Doing too much too quickly, one misses a lot of learning. What makes a big difference, what makes little or no difference...
> 
> IOW, I personally would wait a good while before adding _anything_ to Jodi's DAC. YMMV of course.




I encourage people to add music to any DAC. 

Sorry, too easy. But I am with you on spending lots of time with gear and lettting the character seep into your subconscious. My experience with A/B testing has never been too insightful. However, I have never heard a supreme rig.


----------



## Ancipital

rovopio said:


> Just a quick question to you, are you talking about the Jotunheim-hd650 pairing when you put it on the Balanced mode or does the SE also "bulldoze through that" as well?


 
  
 Actually, they're remarkably close. I wouldn't fancy my chances of telling the difference blind with a 100% pass rate. I think there's a little more snap in sharp attacks of percussive notes (especially in a busy, "layered" mix), and nylon vs metal guitar strings sound more different over balanced- but can't rule out that I'm just imagining it. It's not like the SE lacks the power to make the HD650 behave, either- I probably would have been fine if I'd stayed SE. However, given how easy it is to go balanced on the HD650, I couldn't resist giving it a go, for the sake of curiosity over any slight improvements that could result.
  
 Both the balanced and SE output are really decent- which is quite an achievement on an amp of this price.
  
 The only downside with the combo is it's costing me sleep, as I lose track of time listening to favourite music on it.. it's very pleasing.


----------



## 12Jewelz

Ive seen comparison between the Liquid Carbon and the Mjolnir 2 as far as each amps sound signature. Has anyone compared the LC to the Jot? (resolution, bass, soundstage, etc.)?


----------



## Youth

12jewelz said:


> Ive seen comparison between the Liquid Carbon and the Mjolnir 2 as far as each amps sound signature. Has anyone compared the LC to the Jot? (resolution, bass, soundstage, etc.)?


 
  
 I think someone has. But not on this forum


----------



## MattTCG

12jewelz said:


> Ive seen comparison between the Liquid Carbon and the Mjolnir 2 as far as each amps sound signature. Has anyone compared the LC to the Jot? (resolution, bass, soundstage, etc.)?


 
  
 I compared them directly at a meet a few weeks ago and preferred the Jot. I would say that the Jot is faster, more natural tonality and better bass extension. The LC is very "smooth" and warm except a little bump in the treble. I can see people having a preference for either. But mine was clearly with the Jot.


----------



## tretneo

matttcg said:


> I compared them directly at a meet a few weeks ago and preferred the Jot. I would say that the Jot is faster, more natural tonality and better bass extension. The LC is very "smooth" and warm except a little bump in the treble. I can see people having a preference for either. But mine was clearly with the Jot.


 
  
 Hey Matt, sorry if I missed this somewhere posted already but what DAC(s) were you pairing with the them?


----------



## MattTCG

At the meet I was using the on board DAC that came with the Jot.


----------



## tretneo

matttcg said:


> At the meet I was using the on board DAC that came with the Jot.


 
  
 Cool thanks, I have one (w/ the onboard DAC) on order. Plan to compare it to a Mojo > Jot pairing to see what I like better w/ my Ether Flows.


----------



## ColtMrFire

matttcg said:


> At the meet I was using the on board DAC that came with the Jot.




What DAC did you use with the LC?


----------



## kevin gilmore

matttcg said:


> Wow KG in the house. Have you had a chance to hear the Joti?


 
 Not yet, but I expect to have a good listen soon.​
  
 With the board space available on the plug in card, I expect that doing a native balanced dsd dac is going to be pretty easy.
  
 This could be the next big thing.


----------



## earnmyturns

matttcg said:


> I compared them directly at a meet a few weeks ago and preferred the Jot. I would say that the Jot is faster, more natural tonality and better bass extension. The LC is very "smooth" and warm except a little bump in the treble. I can see people having a preference for either. But mine was clearly with the Jot.


 
 OK, you just made me cave in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Still waiting for my LC v2, but just ordered a Jot (no DAC). Depending on how they compare with Bimby as input, one of them will pair with the Bimby and MrSpeakers Ether C Flows in my home office, the other will be exiled to work to amplify the output of an iBasso DX90 to feed a pair of MrSpeakers Alpha Prime. There will be an Asgard 2 for sale out of this no matter what...


----------



## comzee

kevin gilmore said:


> I expect that doing a native balanced dsd dac is going to be pretty easy.


 
  
 I believe "dsd" is a "trigger" word for Jason


----------



## Ancipital

comzee said:


> I believe "dsd" is a "trigger" word for Jason


 
  
 MQA!


----------



## escalibur

Has anyone of you upgraded ODAC RevB to this one? I'm especially curious how different would Jotu be compared to ODAC with HD650s.


----------



## Ggroch

error.


----------



## cishida

earnmyturns said:


> OK, you just made me cave in
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I've just made a similar transition. Replaced Asgard 2 with Jotunheim with Bimby as input.
 Can't say how Jotunheim will compare with the LC v2, but Jotunheim > Asgard 2 in every way that I can tell. It is a fabulous combination. 
  
 Edit: forgot to mention - using SE HD 600.
  
 Edit 2: Only problem is that this now sounds better than my "primary" stereo speaker setup.


----------



## theveterans

What makes the Jot sounding better than Asgard 2 aside from the extra power of course?


----------



## cishida

theveterans said:


> What makes the Jot sounding better than Asgard 2 aside from the extra power of course?


 
  
 I don't think it is the additional power - in fact, in SE I don't think it is necessarily more powerful than the asgard 2.
  
 Jotunheim is clearer, and the clarity and detail is presented in a very pleasing way. It is hard to describe - 'beautiful' for lack of a better word.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Does anyone have any insight on how the joti , compares to the mjolnir1? 

Just curious because if I can get similar performance, in a smaller package. I'd definitely snag one of these up.


----------



## jchandler3

I've been following along since the beginning and I don't recall any direct comparison to the Mjolnir 2. Anyone have that info? @MattTCG?


----------



## Guidostrunk

I wish I had the mjolnir 2. Some Valvo CCa , yellow prints, and fugedabadit. Lol. I have the mj1 





jchandler3 said:


> I've been following along since the beginning and I don't recall any direct comparison to the Mjolnir 2. Anyone have that info? @MattTCG
> ?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Is it pronounced (Yo-10-highm)? Lol


----------



## CCXR594

guidostrunk said:


> Is it pronounced (Yo-10-highm)? Lol


 
 Either that or Yo-tin-highm.


----------



## Guidostrunk

tòuchè


ccxr594 said:


> Either that or Yo-tin-highm.


----------



## earnmyturns

cishida said:


> I've just made a similar transition. Replaced Asgard 2 with Jotunheim with Bimby as input.
> Can't say how Jotunheim will compare with the LC v2, but Jotunheim > Asgard 2 in every way that I can tell. It is a fabulous combination.
> 
> Edit: forgot to mention - using SE HD 600.
> ...


 
 Wow. Ether C Flows with Asgard 2 from Bimby already win over my speaker setup in some respects: less smooth, more real percussion, sax, and strings, maybe because of the integrated DAC/amp Bel Canto C7R powering my speakers, which tends a bit towards the mellow, great for dinner time music but sometimes less convincing in close listening. I fear that the Jot is going to "force" me to replace the C7R by something else (hum, Schiit two-channel...).


----------



## ProtegeManiac

guidostrunk said:


> Is it pronounced (Yo-10-highm)? Lol


----------



## Vigrith

guidostrunk said:


> Is it pronounced (Yo-10-highm)? Lol


 
  
 Yoe-tun-highm (Jötunheim) should be the correct Old Norse pronunciation, seeing as Schiit went with the anglicized version then Yoh-tun-highm is probably the most accurate approximation.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Sounds like he said (Yoat-in-highm)


----------



## earnmyturns

vigrith said:


> Yoe-tun-highm (Jötunheim) should be the correct Old Norse pronunciation, seeing as Schiit went with the anglicized version then Yoh-tun-highm is probably the most accurate approximation.


 
 Hey, if we are going to be picky, lets use some Old Norse funny characters: Jǫtunheimr


----------



## Vigrith

earnmyturns said:


> Hey, if we are going to be picky, lets use some Old Norse funny characters: Jǫtunheimr




Haha I'm all for the anglicized versions of the canon, that's why my name's Vigrith and not Vígríðr even though I love the ON alphabet.

Wasn't trying to be picky, just figured it may be relevant to point out the (slight) difference between both iterations!


----------



## MattTCG

guidostrunk said:


> Does anyone have any insight on how the joti , compares to the mjolnir1?
> 
> Just curious because if I can get similar performance, in a smaller package. I'd definitely snag one of these up.


 
  
 The mjo1 had plenty of power but was harsh sounding especially in the treble spectrum. It needed a warm dac to yield a pleasing sound. The mjo1 never worked for me. 


jchandler3 said:


> I've been following along since the beginning and I don't recall any direct comparison to the Mjolnir 2. Anyone have that info? @MattTCG?


 
 The mjo 2 is a fantastic amp. With a good set of tubes, this is an end game amp for just about anyone. Tube sweetness, unapologetically dynamic, refined power. Very natural and organic sounding. The thing I have to be careful with is going down the rabbit hole called tube rolling. You can easily put up 1/2 the cost of the amp for a rare set of tubes. A collection of tubes is often more than the cost of the amp itself.


----------



## DavidA

matttcg said:


> The mjo 2 is a fantastic amp. With a good set of tubes, this is an end game amp for just about anyone. Tube sweetness, unapologetically dynamic, refined power. Very natural and organic sounding. The thing I have to be careful with is going down the rabbit hole called tube rolling.* You can easily put up 1/2 the cost of the amp for a rare set of tubes. A collection of tubes is often more than the cost of the amp itself. *


 
 I agree with this, the collection of tubes for my Lyr2 and BH Crack are 2-3 times the price of the amp themselves.


----------



## Ancipital

vigrith said:


> Haha I'm all for the anglicized versions of the canon, that's why my name's Vigrith and not Vígríðr even though I love the ON alphabet.
> 
> Wasn't trying to be picky, just figured it may be relevant to point out the (slight) difference between both iterations!


 
  
 I'll be impressed if Schiit ever release a unit called the "Kamelåså"... ahem.


----------



## Vigrith

ancipital said:


> I'll be impressed if Schiit ever release a unit called the "Kamelåså"... ahem.


 
  
 It can be a DAC then they can call the amp Syggelekokle.


----------



## Ancipital

vigrith said:


> It can be a DAC then they can call the amp Syggelekokle.


 
  
 You just ordered two thousand meters magical audiophile speaker cable! (etc.)


----------



## ToTo Man

I'm intrigued to read more comparisons of Jotunheim vs Asgard 2.  Being Class A one might logically expect the Asgard 2 to be better, but obviously there are other factors at play here?


----------



## Clemmaster

Jotunheim is more transparent, more detailed and overall better refined.
  
 It is, however, more upfront and brighter, which could be too much for some.
  
 FWIW, Jotunheim is one of the (very) rare headphone amp that does a good job at driving the HE-6. A feat.


----------



## Vigrith

clemmaster said:


> Jotunheim is more transparent, more detailed and overall better refined.
> 
> It is, however, more upfront and brighter, which could be too much for some.
> 
> FWIW, Jotunheim is one of the (very) rare headphone amp that does a good job at driving the HE-6. A feat.


 
  
 More upfront yes, but brighter than the Asgard? From all the information I've gathered and impressions I've read I am at quite a loss if that's the case. I guess I'll find out for myself once I receive my Jotunheim in a week or so.


----------



## Defiant00

toto man said:


> I'm intrigued to read more comparisons of Jotunheim vs Asgard 2.  Being Class A one might logically expect the Asgard 2 to be better, but obviously there are other factors at play here?


 
  
 I've swapped my Asgard 2 for the Jotunheim in my work rig for now, but will be putting them head-to-head this weekend and will report back.
  
 Initial impressions with HD800S make me think the Asgard 2 might be going away, but I wouldn't commit to that 100% until I've actually done the comparison.


----------



## ToTo Man

defiant00 said:


> I've swapped my Asgard 2 for the Jotunheim in my work rig for now, but will be putting them head-to-head this weekend and will report back.
> 
> Initial impressions with HD800S make me think the Asgard 2 might be going away, but I wouldn't commit to that 100% until I've actually done the comparison.


 
 I'll especially look forward to this comparison given that I'm also an HD800S owner.


----------



## ColtMrFire

defiant00 said:


> I've swapped my Asgard 2 for the Jotunheim in my work rig for now, but will be putting them head-to-head this weekend and will report back.
> 
> Initial impressions with HD800S make me think the Asgard 2 might be going away, but I wouldn't commit to that 100% until I've actually done the comparison.




I've heard mostly negative reviews of the Jot-HD800 pairing (saying it exaggerates the 800s negative qualities), so I'm looking forward to your review. Not sure if they were talking about HD800 1.1 or the S version.


----------



## rwelles

coltmrfire said:


> I've heard mostly negative reviews of the Jot-HD800 pairing (saying it exaggerates the 800s negative qualities), so I'm looking forward to your review. Not sure if they were talking about HD800 1.1 or the S version.


 

 I have been VERY happy with my 800S via balanced from the Jodie!! Of course, that's only my personal opinion.


----------



## Defiant00

coltmrfire said:


> I've heard mostly negative reviews of the Jot-HD800 pairing (saying it exaggerates the 800s negative qualities), so I'm looking forward to your review. Not sure if they were talking about HD800 1.1 or the S version.


 
  
 Well, I like HD800S with solid state in general, so maybe I'm the abnormal one 
  
 I suspect the Bimby helps, since it isn't a harsh DAC.


----------



## MWSVette

coltmrfire said:


> I've heard mostly negative reviews of the Jot-HD800 pairing (saying it exaggerates the 800s negative qualities), so I'm looking forward to your review. Not sure if they were talking about HD800 1.1 or the S version.


 
 I am very pleased with my Bimby / Jotunheim with my low serial number HD800's.
  
 I do not believe I have read any negative reviews on the Jotunheim paired with the HD800's yet...


----------



## madwolfa

vigrith said:


> It can be a DAC then they can call the amp Syggelekokle.


 
  
 That sounds like something made by IKEA.


----------



## ColtMrFire

mwsvette said:


> I am very pleased with my Bimby / Jotunheim with my low serial number HD800's.
> 
> I do not believe I have read any negative reviews on the Jotunheim paired with the HD800's yet...




They're definitely out there. Mostly on a forum i can't name here.


----------



## tekkster

tekkster said:


> Would be interested in hearing your thoughts on the Mojo SE out to Jotunheim SE in -> SE out to HD650.
> 
> I just ordered the Jotunheim, and am curious to try with old Beyer T1 and HD800 (SE, not balanced).
> 
> Happy with the Mojo overall, but to my very bad ears, vocals don't sound so hot, so wondering what connecting through the Jotunheim will change things.  Since I purchased the DAC module as well, curious to compare with and without the Mojo in between.


 

 So....received the Jotunheim, and I must be doing something wrong, or using crappy cables.

 When using the USB DAC, the music comes through no problem (from my iMac, JRiver and Swinsian), but there is this weird static'y tic that happens....roughly every 4 seconds.

 I don't notice it when listening to anything heavy, but when i listen to piano solo or cello solo, it is definitely there.  Sometimes, it's in my left ear, sometimes in my right, and sometimes from both.  but it's like a single static'y tick, or pop, or whatever the term is, and averages around every 4 seconds, though sometimes longer apart, sometimes shorter, about 3 seconds apart.  But mostly roughly 4 seconds apart.

 This does not occur when using the Mojo SE out to RCA in.  It also doesn't occur when going from iMacs SE out to Jotunheim's RCA in.

 So, it appears as though this only happens from iMac's USB out to the Jotunheim's USB in.

 NOTE:  In case anyone is thinking that it's my iMac's USB port, it isn't.  Beacuse I don't have this issue when going from iMac's USB out to Mojo's USB in.

 Am I the only one?  I've read most of this thread and don't recall anyone else observing this.


----------



## tekkster

On another note, until I figure the DAC situation out, I am running USB to the Mojo, and the Mojo SE to the Jotunheim out.

 And...the big surprise for me:

 When listening to just the Mojo at low volume, everything sorta becomes dull.
 When listening the Mojo/Jotunheim at low volume, everything is the same "goodness", just lower volume.

 That is pleasantly surprising, especially since my ears aren't very good, and yet I prefer low volume listening.


----------



## Cet1

Well,  I have a similar problem with the popping - except it keeps getting worse.
  
 Got my Jot this morning - so anxious to hook it up. Hooked it SE up first to just the headphone jack on my MacBook Pro - good!  But then I wanted to hook it up to the usb port - didn't realize I had to have a USB 2 cord - so had to go get one (Office Max - Ativa) - hooked it up.  Had light popping - but it kept getting worse and worse - after 20 minutes it was like static on a 50's radio - terrrible!  I plugged my Massdrop Centrance DAC/amplifier into the adjoining usb port on the MBP - static "mostly" went away immediately - but still there some maybe every second.   So switched now to using only the Jot amp as I am using the Centrance as the DAC and plugging it the SE inputs on the back.
  
 I want to use the Jot DAC (and compare to the Centrance) - anyone got any ideas as to the cause?  cure?  This is my first attempt to using a headphone DAC/amp - kinda lost here.
  
 Have ordered an optical cord to hook up the Jot (amp) to my OPPO 105 (DAC) to see the difference.  Experimenting...


----------



## cishida

cet1 said:


> Well,  I have a similar problem with the popping - except it keeps getting worse.
> 
> Got my Jot this morning - so anxious to hook it up. Hooked it SE up first to just the headphone jack on my MacBook Pro - good!  But then I wanted to hook it up to the usb port - didn't realize I had to have a USB 2 cord - so had to go get one (Office Max - Ativa) - hooked it up.  Had light popping - but it kept getting worse and worse - after 20 minutes it was like static on a 50's radio - terrrible!  I plugged my Massdrop Centrance DAC/amplifier into the adjoining usb port on the MBP - static "mostly" went away immediately - but still there some maybe every second.   So switched now to using only the Jot amp as I am using the Centrance as the DAC and plugging it the SE inputs on the back.
> 
> ...


 
 Sounds like it could be a problem with the addon DAC board. I would send email to Nick ( info@schiit.com )


----------



## Ancipital

coltmrfire said:


> They're definitely out there. Mostly on a forum i can't name here.


 
  
 Even there, they're in the minority, except for _certain people_ labouring the point. Lots of positive HD800M feedback. People who make an informed decision to use it unmodded on any amp that isn't a swamp thing are probably au fait with EQ, anyway


----------



## tekkster

cishida said:


> Sounds like it could be a problem with the addon DAC board. I would send email to Nick ( info@schiit.com )


 

 Thank you cishida.  Nick responded back with some options to try.

 I will give them a go.  Mostly directing me to the USB troubleshooting FAQ, and reminding to avoid having WiFi signals nearby, which is easy since I'm mostly ethernet around the house anyway.

 We'll see.

 Thanks for the suggestion to hit up Nick.


----------



## tekkster

I guess Nick was spot on.

 Just for the sake of simple, expedient, double-checking, I used the iPhone adaptor (normally used with the Mojo), and connected the same USB cable to the Jotunheim.

 No little popping.

 So, it's not the Jotunheim DAC module, and it's not the USB cable.
 Likely a USB port issue on the iMac.
  
 I had previously figured that since using JRiver or Swinsian and going USB to Mojo seems to bypass known issues with the iMac's USB port on El Capitain, it would work fine with the Jotunheim. 

 Guess not....


----------



## ColtMrFire

ancipital said:


> Even there, they're in the minority, except for _certain people_ labouring the point. Lots of positive HD800M feedback. People who make an informed decision to use it unmodded on any amp that isn't a swamp thing are probably au fait with EQ, anyway


 
  
  
 Good, because I was getting bummed out, since I see a Jot/HD800 in my future.


----------



## lenroot77

coltmrfire said:


> Good, because I was getting bummed out, since I see a Jot/HD800 in my future.




Just use the sonar works software... No need to mod. Turns it into a daily driver!


----------



## lenroot77

lenroot77 said:


> Just use the sonar works software... No need to mod. Turns it into a daily driver!




http://www.head-fi.org/t/762969/sonarworks-headphone-calibration-software

I think it's great and there's been a couple reputable headfi'ers (imho) that give it the thumbs up as well.


----------



## ColtMrFire

lenroot77 said:


> Just use the sonar works software... No need to mod. Turns it into a daily driver!




I don't use computer based audio anymore, just CD player via coax to Mimby.

I have the Beyer T90, a treble spike demon, and it rarely bothers me, so HD800 will probably be okay since it is not nearly as bad.


----------



## jchandler3

tekkster said:


> I guess Nick was spot on.
> 
> 
> Just for the sake of simple, expedient, double-checking, I used the iPhone adaptor (normally used with the Mojo), and connected the same USB cable to the Jotunheim.
> ...




I had very similar issues a while back with my MacBook Pro / Thunderbolt Display setup. The Wyrd fixed it for me.


----------



## Starcruncher

Has anyone used any Grado headphones with this amp? I feel like it might not be the best pairing, but would like to hear some thoughts if they're out there.


----------



## Ancipital

coltmrfire said:


> I don't use computer based audio anymore, just CD player via coax to Mimby.
> 
> I have the Beyer T90, a treble spike demon, and it rarely bothers me, so HD800 will probably be okay since it is not nearly as bad.


 
  
 Well, if you're not someone who finds treble spikes painful, you're probably fine. Jotenheim is a very clear, upfront amp with a ton of detail, but it's far from harsh or shrill. Mind you, very few people who really care seem to run their non-S HD800 without modding them to get rid of that treble spike, so you might want to bear that in mind.
  
 That said, even if you hated it, I suspect you could resell to an HD650 owner in the blink of an eye, it's one of the less risky purchases that you could make.
  
  


starcruncher said:


> Has anyone used any Grado headphones with this amp? I feel like it might not be the best pairing, but would like to hear some thoughts if they're out there.


 
  
 Wow, I'd be sort of interested in hearing the answer to this. I find the sound of most Grados really unpleasantly thin, harsh and yes, shrill, as above. It's not a pairing that would spring to mind- I just don't get on with the sound, or the comfort. I suspect I'd be diving for the EQ and/or looking for a syrupy tube amp, if I was for some reason forced to use Grados.
  
 It'd be interesting to hear from someone who enjoys the Grado sound, though, who has tried plugging them into the Jotenheim- it'd be a genuinely different POV.


----------



## sheldaze

Saw the above posts - so I compared Yggy > Jodie versus Gumby > MicroZOTL2 (still on my head as I type this), both into my PS1000e. Personal biases may be at play here, because I've always preferred any generation of Grado I have owned, including my original SR60i, when they were plugged into a tube. The tube amplifier I used then was the Vali 2, which similar to the MicroZOTL2 is a low output impedance tube amplifier that does not sound like a "tube" amplifier. The sound of both amplifiers is oriented towards a more linear and fast sound.
  
 But as fast as they are, they are not solid state - there is an immediately noticeable sound, for those like myself who like just a smidge of tube. Jodie does not sound as good to my ears as MicroZOTL2 through my Grado headphones. But that's not saying Jodie did anything wrong. It's a personal preference, and how I like to listen to Grado.
  
 And if someone were to ask instead, how does Jodie compare directly against solid state options - there are a few warmer solid state options that I do like. Jodie is towards the cool side of the spectrum, ever so very slightly, while Moon NEO 230HAD is towards the warm side, again ever so very slightly. I did enjoy the Grado through the Moon. I also enjoyed the Grado through the Black Widow, though it was at the bottom of the usable volume, for my taste in preferred quiet listening.
  
 To put it another way, the Jodie will not hide what the source is nor what the headphone you are playing through sounds like. Grado, as people here suspect, tends towards the higher frequencies. Jodie will not hide this. If you are a fan of the Grado, and how it sounds without assistance of warmth or a tube, you will like how it sounds on the Jodie, which does nothing to alter its characteristics. Otherwise, seek something else for your amplifier.


----------



## ColtMrFire

ancipital said:


> Well, if you're not someone who finds treble spikes painful, you're probably fine. Jotenheim is a very clear, upfront amp with a ton of detail, but it's far from harsh or shrill. Mind you, very few people who really care seem to run their non-S HD800 without modding them to get rid of that treble spike, so you might want to bear that in mind.


 
  
 Very true, but right now I'm struggling on whether to get Jot and use with my T90 and sell Valhalla 2, or get an HD800 (which I would have to sell my T90 to do), and use it with Val2.  
  
 I do like that you can leave Jot on all the time, so never have to worry about warm up (which you can'd do with tube amps, b/c of tube life), and not having to spend money every year on tube rolling.
  
 I suppose I can get Jot and just keep Val2 for a tube option for schiits and giggles, or use it as a preamp for Jot (tube preamp for solid state is supposed to be a great combo).


----------



## BarDash

I know Schitt says the Jot can be left on all the time but mine gets very warm and I don't know how comfortable I'd be going to work or sleep and leaving it on.


coltmrfire said:


> Very true, but right now I'm struggling on whether to get Jot and use with my T90 and sell Valhalla 2, or get an HD800 (which I would have to sell my T90 to do), and use it with Val2.
> 
> I do like that you can leave Jot on all the time, so never have to worry about warm up (which you can'd do with tube amps, b/c of tube life), and not having to spend money every year on tube rolling.
> 
> I suppose I can get Jot and just keep Val2 for a tube option for schiits and giggles, or use it as a preamp for Jot (tube preamp for solid state is supposed to be a great combo).


 
 FYI: I know Schitt says the Jot can be left on all the time but mine gets very warm and almost hot, I don't know how comfortable I'd be going to work or sleep and leaving it on.


----------



## sheldaze

HD800 and Valhalla 2 did not work for me - not due to having too much treble, but due to some small amount of grit I heard, which enunciated certain sounds. I was listening to a laid-back Pink Floyd song, and it sounded more grungy and aggressive through the Valhalla 2. By comparison, I heard no grit through a DNA Sonett, which is what I moved to next. I would also say by comparison, I do not hear grit on the Jodie. There is a mild treble push, but not grit.


----------



## ColtMrFire

sheldaze said:


> HD800 and Valhalla 2 did not work for me - not due to having too much treble, but due to some small amount of grit I heard, which enunciated certain sounds. I was listening to a laid-back Pink Floyd song, and it sounded more grungy and aggressive through the Valhalla 2. By comparison, I heard no grit through a DNA Sonett, which is what I moved to next. I would also say by comparison, I do not hear grit on the Jodie. There is a mild treble push, but not grit.


 
  
 Yeah but Sonnet is significantly more expensive than Val2, which is supposed to be THE budget amp for the HD800, punching well above its weight class (like most Schiit gear).  You're probably not going to find a better OTL tube amp under $800.
  
 My only complaint with Val2 is it has a slight hazy quality to it, and it doesn't do slam/dynamics super well.  But everything else is stellar, and its hard to complain for $350.


----------



## sheldaze

coltmrfire said:


> Yeah but Sonnet is significantly more expensive than Val2, which is supposed to be THE budget amp for the HD800, punching well above its weight class (like most Schiit gear).  You're probably not going to find a better OTL tube amp under $800.
> 
> My only complaint with Val2 is it has a slight hazy quality to it, and it doesn't do slam/dynamics super well.  But everything else is stellar, and its hard to complain for $350.


 
 I hear you on the price, but the Sonett was definitely worth the $600, to my ears, relative to the Valhalla 2. And I suspect that what you hear as haze may be similar to what I heard as grit. Perhaps I'm simply focused on a different frequency spectrum (in describing how I dislike the sound), so at a lower frequency = grit, while higher frequency = haze. Whatever it was, I do not hear this on the Jodie.
  
 I think the primary question with the Jodie is frequency response curve, which it will not address - meaning it won't fix something that is broken in the headphone. If there are no issues (i.e. modifications are made to the headphone, or equalization, or headphone is flat to start with), I think Jodie will do fine.


----------



## Vigrith

Wasn't Donald's Sonett discontinued though? I'd have been wanting to try it for a while but last time I looked I think it was no longer in production (according to his site at least).


----------



## franzdom

I would like to explore more the idea of pairing the Jotenheim with a Lyr 2 or Mjolnir 2 for tubed preamps. I mean, is the Lyr 2 pre-out a lot cleaner than the amped out? 
  
 This is a very intriguing idea, I am tempted to just buy a Jotte and see. It would very likely end in happiness, just like every other Schiit purchase I have made has done.


----------



## ColtMrFire

sheldaze said:


> I hear you on the price, but the Sonett was definitely worth the $600, to my ears, relative to the Valhalla 2. And I suspect that what you hear as haze may be similar to what I heard as grit. Perhaps I'm simply focused on a different frequency spectrum (in describing how I dislike the sound), so at a lower frequency = grit, while higher frequency = haze. Whatever it was, I do not hear this on the Jodie.
> 
> I think the primary question with the Jodie is frequency response curve, which it will not address - meaning it won't fix something that is broken in the headphone. If there are no issues (i.e. modifications are made to the headphone, or equalization, or headphone is flat to start with), I think Jodie will do fine.


 
  
 $600???  I didn't realize the Sonnet was that cheap.  I take back what I said.
  
 Also, did you say you had the HD800/Jot combo?  How does it sound to you?


----------



## JLoud

bardash said:


> I know Schitt says the Jot can be left on all the time but mine gets very warm and I don't know how comfortable I'd be going to work or sleep and leaving it on.
> 
> 
> coltmrfire said:
> ...


 
 I've had mine for two weeks.  Left it on the whole time.  It is warm, but never exceedingly.  I would be more worried about all the heat cycles with turning it on and off.  Worst thing you can do for electronics is heat and let them cool down over and over.  I repair robots for a major company and we leave power on control and transformer boards year round.  Most failures occur after power downs.


----------



## tretneo

Just received my Jot (w/ DAC) this afternoon. So far, so good and it sounds great to me. I haven't gotten around to comparing w/ my Chord Mojo which I've been using to drive Ether Flows for the past couple of months, that said I'm not hearing much difference (if any) right out of the gate.
  
 I noticed the DAC chips in the USB DAC are the same used by Astell&Kern's AK3xx line. Those players are widely praised for their sound quality/signature so I can't see any reason why this DAC wouldn't perform similarly if Schiit did a good job w/ implementation which I have to assume they did.
  
 Good stuff.


----------



## tekkster

jchandler3 said:


> I had very similar issues a while back with my MacBook Pro / Thunderbolt Display setup. The Wyrd fixed it for me.


 

 Thanks for the education.  Looked it up after reading your comment.  For $99, it's worth it to give it a try.  Will have to pick one up, maybe end of the month.  Though....as I write this, it does seem rather absurdly irrational for me to think:  I'm gonna spend $99 on a device that will clean up a bad digital USB signal....  Maybe normal for audiophiles....definitely a strange realm for me.  C'est la vie.  Thanks again.


----------



## dglow

tekkster said:


> jchandler3 said:
> 
> 
> > I had very similar issues a while back with my MacBook Pro / Thunderbolt Display setup. The Wyrd fixed it for me.
> ...


 

 If you're hoping for a less expensive alternative, try a powered USB2 hub first.


----------



## tekkster

dglow said:


> If you're hoping for a less expensive alternative, try a powered USB2 hub first.


 

 Thanks.  Will do.
  
 Even with aging, bad hearing, I really do enjoy the Jotunheim at low volume more than the Mojo at low volume.  So, crossing fingers this USB effort will fix the issue.  Too bad the Jotunheim doesn't have optical audio input like the Mojo does.  I use the Mojo with USB on the iMac or optical audio with the MBP (not enough USB ports).  Mojo works fine with USB....Irritated that the Jotunheim doesn't.


----------



## franzdom

Have you tried driving the Jot with the Mojo?


----------



## tekkster

franzdom said:


> Have you tried driving the Jot with the Mojo?


 

 Starting to feel a little guilty taking up so much of this thread when it's an audiophile forum.

 But in answer to your question, 

 yes, I did try that:  imac usb -> mojo usb -> mojo se out -> Jot RCA in -> SE out to Beyer T1.
 It's so weird, but the bits of static or pop or whatever it's called shows up, every 3-4 seconds, just like when Mojo is not there.

 Not that this matters, but I've tried with Audirvana, JRiver, and Swinsian.  No difference.

 When I do imac usb -> mojo -> SE out to T1....no pops.

 USB cable and Jot DAC module are also both fine, because I ran a test from the iPhone to USB adaptor, to the very same USB cable to Jot DAC...etc. etc.  and no pops.  

 Frustrating because I have no clue what I'm doing, but get consistently repeatable results.

 Anyway, thanks again for all the suggestions, esteemed experts.  I'll try those tips out later this month.


----------



## Allanmarcus

tekkster said:


> franzdom said:
> 
> 
> > Have you tried driving the Jot with the Mojo?
> ...


 
 If you have a TRS 3.5mm to RCA left/right cable, try the Jodie off the iPhone direct
  
 iPhone -> Jodie (RCA)
  
 It might just be be you have a Jodie issue.


----------



## BarDash

jloud said:


> I've had mine for two weeks.  Left it on the whole time.  It is warm, but never exceedingly.  I would be more worried about all the heat cycles with turning it on and off.  Worst thing you can do for electronics is heat and let them cool down over and over.  I repair robots for a major company and we leave power on control and transformer boards year round.  Most failures occur after power downs.


 
 I'll take your word for it, reminds me of the old debate: Shut down your computer or leave it on?


----------



## jchandler3

dglow said:


> If you're hoping for a less expensive alternative, try a powered USB2 hub first.




FWIW, I tried 3 different USB hubs (quality, powered) and none of them helped. Only the Wyrd solved it for me. 

Oddly enough, Schiit DACs are the only DACs I've experienced such issues with. Probably just a coincidence...


----------



## Vigrith

bardash said:


> I'll take your word for it, reminds me of the old debate: Shut down your computer or leave it on?


 
  
 Oh how I hate that debate. LOL. I'm planning on leaving Jodie on the whole time but I always grow a little wary of something going wrong over night whilst everyone's asleep, will have to see how it goes.


----------



## BarDash

vigrith said:


> Oh how I hate that debate. LOL. I'm planning on leaving Jodie on the whole time but I always grow a little wary of something going wrong over night whilst everyone's asleep, will have to see how it goes.


 
 So do I!
 I think I'm somewhere in the middle... On days I work I'll leave it off, days I'm off where I'm more likely to turn it off & on again I'll just keep it on.  You make a valid point but I think I'm more comfortable with that compromise.


----------



## earnmyturns

bardash said:


> So do I!
> I think I'm somewhere in the middle... On days I work I'll leave it off, days I'm off where I'm more likely to turn it off & on again I'll just keep it on.  You make a valid point but I think I'm more comfortable with that compromise.


 
 I've left a pretty hot-running class A Asgard 2 running for months in my home office (almost always < 22 C air temperature). I have a good fire/smoke alarm system in the house, with a detector 1.5m away from the Asgard 2, so I think it's safe to keep the Asgard 2 nice and toasty.


----------



## BarDash

earnmyturns said:


> I've left a pretty hot-running class A Asgard 2 running for months in my home office (almost always < 22 C air temperature). I have a good fire/smoke alarm system in the house, with a detector 1.5m away from the Asgard 2, so I think it's safe to keep the Asgard 2 nice and toasty.



Lol... If I have to consider how close my fire/smoke detector is to my Jot just to leave it running continously, I may have to reconsider my priorities.


----------



## earnmyturns

bardash said:


> Lol... If I have to consider how close my fire/smoke detector is to my Jot just to leave it running continously, I may have to reconsider my priorities.


 
 I didn't overthink the issue, I know we have smoke detectors in every room, and just looked from the A 2 to the ceiling while I was typing that. We have lots of other boxes that are always on, from a NAS and Intel NUC in another room to a bunch of networking and video gear in a closet, to lots of SMPS feeding this and that all over the house. Why would be a modest A 2 (or Jot) be the most dangerous?


----------



## tretneo

Does anyone know where I can order a short ~6 inch 3.5mm to RCA cable for Mojo to Jot SE input connection? I'm sure I can have one made but would prefer to get it a bit quicker.


----------



## sheldaze

tretneo said:


> Does anyone know where I can order a short ~6 inch 3.5mm to RCA cable for Mojo to Jot SE input connection? I'm sure I can have one made but would prefer to get it a bit quicker.


 
 This seems a little pricey, once you include shipping:
  
https://www.amazon.com/MyCableMart-PREMIUM-Mini-Stereo-Speaker-Cable/dp/B00U1SIPIA
  
 I'd still get the Monoprice, though it is longer than you want:
  
https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-105596-1-5-Feet-Premium-Stereo/dp/B002JTOLH8


----------



## Ancipital

I use
  
 https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00SWYT7KU/ref=twister_B01968QTA
  
 for my Mojo, and it's just fine. I'm sure that a few minutes on your local Amazon will find something similar that won't break the bank.


----------



## tretneo

sheldaze said:


> This seems a little pricey, once you include shipping:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/MyCableMart-PREMIUM-Mini-Stereo-Speaker-Cable/dp/B00U1SIPIA
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have a 5' (1.5m) audioquest evergreen cable but was hoping to find something much shorter. The MyCableMart option looks good, assuming it's good quality. May just try it out, thanks!


----------



## ColtMrFire

Pulled the trigger on the Jot!

Hope it pairs well with my Mimby/T90 combo.

I put Valhalla 2 up for sale but am considering keeping it. Someone was running a Vali 2 with Jot as a preamp to great results so I will try it with Val2.


----------



## BarDash

bardash said:


> Lol... If I have to consider how close my fire/smoke detector is to my Jot just to leave it running continously, I may have to reconsider my priorities.







earnmyturns said:


> I didn't overthink the issue, I know we have smoke detectors in every room, and just looked from the A 2 to the ceiling while I was typing that. We have lots of other boxes that are always on, from a NAS and Intel NUC in another room to a bunch of networking and video gear in a closet, to lots of SMPS feeding this and that all over the house. Why would be a modest A 2 (or Jot) be the most dangerous?




I didn't infer that it was dangerous anywhere in my posts, just that it gets hot when it's left on continuously. But in your previous comments your second sentence you said there was a smoke/fire detector close by which made it sound like YOU at least had some fire concerns...


----------



## ToTo Man

coltmrfire said:


> Pulled the trigger on the Jot!
> 
> Hope it pairs well with my Mimby/T90 combo.
> 
> I put Valhalla 2 up for sale but am considering keeping it. Someone was running a Vali 2 with Jot as a preamp to great results so I will try it with Val2.


 
 Unless I'm wrong, Jot's pre-amp isn't bypassable, so you will have 2 volume pots in play which kinda complicates things and may degrade SQ.


----------



## JLoud

Just got my balanced cable for Hifiman he 560.  I really noticed the difference from SE.  It isn't night and day, but dynamics and bass has definetely improved.  I think Hifiman's, Audeze and the like will really benefit from the extra power and control available with the Jot.  Waiting for my balanced cable for the Elear's to arrive.  Will post if I notice much difference with them.  Available power isn't really an issue with them.


----------



## Vigrith

jloud said:


> Just got my balanced cable for Hifiman he 560.  I really noticed the difference from SE.  It isn't night and day, but dynamics and bass has definetely improved.  I think Hifiman's, Audeze and the like will really benefit from the extra power and control available with the Jot.  Waiting for my balanced cable for the Elear's to arrive.  Will post if I notice much difference with them.  Available power isn't really an issue with them.


 
  
 Colour me interested please. Do let me know how you find the Jotunheim with the Elear, not just balanced vs SE but in general - I have a Jotun on its way to me right now and an Elear pre-ordered so definitely would like to know what you think of it!


----------



## pkbarter

First post here, but have been reading here for a while. I bought the Jotunheim and the Multibit Modi this week. My main question wasn't whether the Jotunheim would be a good amp, buy whether the DAC module would be noticeably different than the Multibit Modi, and whether I'd prefer one or the other. 
  
 My background is in music. I've studied jazz performance at two top-flight conservatories of music--and while I was there, I took courses in electronic music, studio recording, and composition. My masters is in electro-acoustic music. I've done all of that professionally since then. That's only to say that I'm familiar with a lot of what the Head-Fi community is concerned with from a professional, technical, and artistic perspective. 
  
 I thought I'd add a voice to the din saying a few things I wish I'd read somewhere beforehand:
  
 1: DACS make a difference. This is sort of the MO of this post. 
 2: Jotunheim sounds good. No problem. Clear, strong, neutral, spacious, revealing.
 3: Balanced makes a positive timbral and spacial difference. (The Audeze LCD-X's balanced and SE cables allow for a direct comparison). Bigger image, more lows and low-mid's. 
 3: Modi Multibit sounds richer and more dimensional than the balanced DAC module available in Jotunheim. The word that best describes the biggest difference is that the Jot dac has a glare and flatness that the Mutibit resolves. It's similar to photography taken in direct sunlight vs on a soft overcast day. The diffuse light gives more detail and fewer hard contrasting edges. 
  
 I'd read both glowing (gushing) reviews of various DACs and heard people A/B really different DACS only to find no difference whatsoever. I didn't know where I'd fall since I'm relatively skeptical and pragmatic. I was fully prepared to use the 15-day return policy fro Schiit to send back the Modi. I wanted to. But it didn't work out that way. Especially with nice cans like the LCD-X's and the HD800's, these differences are clear. I didn't go into a rigorous a/b blind/double blind thing. These are first impressions, and clear ones, that have persisted over the last couple days of comparative/critical listening.
  
 The Jot DAC is not bad. I could have easily and happily settled into it and been impressed with the clarity. I'm keeping and enjoying the Modi Multibit because it's closer to my ideal. I wouldn't have been convinced that better existed without hearing it for myself. 
  
 Both setups (Jot all-in-one and Jot w/ Modi Mutibit) sound wonderful. Both let the music through with very little in the way. The Multibit is clearer and richer to my ears. 
  
 Another note: in comparing the Jotunheim to the Bottlehead Crack (w/ speedball & stock tubes) using HD800's and the Modi Multibit, I found the upper registers in the Crack, especially cymbals in jazz recordings, to be subtly richer and more interesting. They are otherwise very close. 
  
 Glad I bought both the Jotunheim and Modi Multibit. Now I'm curious whether I'd perceive differences between the Multibit DACs as some people have described. Again, the skepticism. 
  
 edit: clarity of language re crack/jot upper register comparison


----------



## dglow

I received my Jotunheim earlier this week and am very impressed with how it sounds. That said, I will not be keeping it. If anyone is interested in a very lightly-used model, please PM me. If you're a CA resident this will save you the 9% sales tax.
  
 This is an amp-only model. No DAC, no phono stage.


----------



## Vigrith

pkbarter said:


> First post here, but have been reading here for a while. I bought the Jotunheim and the Multibit Modi this week. My main question wasn't whether the Jotunheim would be a good amp, buy whether the DAC module would be noticeably different than the Multibit Modi, and whether I'd prefer one or the other.


 
  
 Welcome! I'm very thankful for your comparisons, impressions of someone with your type of background are very relevant, insightful and relevant to me. I'm glad you found multibit to be better than D/S, though harsher on the wallet it makes Mike's (and Jason's) efforts worthwhile and I think that's great. They do excellent work.


----------



## scottcocoabeach

pkbarter said:


> First post here, but have been reading here for a while. I bought the Jotunheim and the Multibit Modi this week. My main question wasn't whether the Jotunheim would be a good amp, buy whether the DAC module would be noticeably different than the Multibit Modi, and whether I'd prefer one or the other.
> 
> Glad I bought both the Jotunheim and Modi Multibit. Now I'm curious whether I'd perceive differences between the Multibit DACs as some people have described. Again, the skepticism.




Great first post. Your impressions are spot on. I haven't done side by side comparisons of the Multibit models as I have them in different locations. I started with a Bifrost Uber, then added the Gumby, then I picked up a Mimby and now I upgraded my Bifrost to Multibit and it will be back next week. Each in a different listening area. The Gumby connected via balanced cables to the Jotenheim is very impressive and would probably be a more noticeable upgrade then say going from a Mimby to Bimby. Of course you could just head straight to a Yiggy but some people prefer some of the other models just based on the sound signature they prefer. 

Welcome to Head-Fi - sorry about your wallet!


----------



## ToddRaymond

I'm curious to hear how those who ordered theirs with the phono stage are finding that aspect of it... how it compares to the Mani, or other phono stages in general.


----------



## earnmyturns

pkbarter said:


> Both setups (Jot all-in-one and Jot w/ Modi Mutibit) sound wonderful. Both let the music through with very little in the way. The Multibit is clearer and richer to my ears.
> 
> Another note: in comparing the Jotunheim to the Bottlehead Crack (w/ speedball & stock tubes) using HD800's and the Modi Multibit, I found the upper registers, especially cymbals in jazz recordings, to be richer and more interesting. They are otherwise very close.
> 
> Glad I bought both the Jotunheim and Modi Multibit. Now I'm curious whether I'd perceive differences between the Multibit DACs as some people have described. Again, the skepticism.


 
 Welcome to this nerdy club! My Jotunheim arrived this this evening. I had a live jazz show to go to at SFJAZZ (Billy Hart Quartet, very good), so I could only listen to a few tracks of Vijay Iyer Trio's "Accelerando," which is my first test for any new audio gear. The Jot replaced an Asgard 2 on microRendu>Bifrost Multibit>amp>MrSpeakers Ether C Flow. Using a DUM balanced cable for the headphones rather than the single-ended DUM cable I had before. What I'm noticing so far: better definition and low-frequency extension for Stephan Crump's bass, better spacial separation between Marcus Gilmore's drums and the piano, and improvement in the loudest piano notes, which sounded "rougher" with the Asgard 2 (sorry for the non-technical language, I'm just a listener, not a musician). This is still a recording, but the bass sounds more like what I just heard live in a small room without much amplification (Ben Street in the live gig was playing very well). Finally, yes, cymbals are doing even better with the Jot than the already very good previous setup. Oh, and the Jotunheim runs way cooler than the Asgard 2, but that was expected.


----------



## Zachik

If you got a Jot with the DAC module, and be interested in a trade for a brand new Chord Mojo - PM me!


----------



## ColtMrFire

scottcocoabeach said:


> Great first post. Your impressions are spot on. I haven't done side by side comparisons of the Multibit models as I have them in different locations. I started with a Bifrost Uber, then added the Gumby, then I picked up a Mimby and now I upgraded my Bifrost to Multibit and it will be back next week. Each in a different listening area. The Gumby connected via balanced cables to the Jotenheim is very impressive and would probably be a more noticeable upgrade then say going from a Mimby to Bimby. Of course you could just head straight to a Yiggy but some people prefer some of the other models just based on the sound signature they prefer.
> 
> Welcome to Head-Fi - sorry about your wallet!


 
  
 How do you find Gumby vs Mimby?


----------



## BarDash

Hi friends,
  
 Setup question here: I already own the Jodie and am thinking of purchasing the Modi Multibit and connecting it to my PC. On Schitts site it says use the usb from the Modi into the PC and RCA's to the amp (Jodie). Also, would both usb connections be connected into the computer or just the Modi?
 Is that the correct and "best" setup? Or is there something that might even be better?
 Sorry about the noobe question. Thanks in advance...


----------



## Maxx134

tekkster said:


> tekkster said:
> 
> 
> > Would be interested in hearing your thoughts on the Mojo SE out to Jotunheim SE in -> SE out to HD650.
> ...







cet1 said:


> Well,  I have a similar problem with the popping - except it keeps getting worse.
> 
> Got my Jot this morning - so anxious to hook it up. Hooked it SE up first to just the headphone jack on my MacBook Pro - good!  But then I wanted to hook it up to the usb port - didn't realize I had to have a USB 2 cord - so had to go get one (Office Max - Ativa) - hooked it up.  Had light popping - but it kept getting worse and worse - after 20 minutes it was like static on a 50's radio - terrrible!  I plugged my Massdrop Centrance DAC/amplifier into the adjoining usb port on the MBP - static "mostly" went away immediately - but still there some maybe every second.   So switched now to using only the Jot amp as I am using the Centrance as the DAC and plugging it the SE inputs on the back.
> 
> ...





These "click/pop" issues are caused by low memory/page swapping issues on computer.

Install a bare mucic player with low memory requirements to test and verify.

You will need to Resolve your memory issues if you're using resource hogging music players.


----------



## Allanmarcus

bardash said:


> Hi friends,
> 
> Setup question here: I already own the Jodie and am thinking of purchasing the Modi Multibit and connecting it to my PC. On Schitts site it says use the usb from the Modi into the PC and RCA's to the amp (Jodie). Also, would both usb connections be connected into the computer or just the Modi?
> Is that the correct and "best" setup? Or is there something that might even be better?
> Sorry about the noobe question. Thanks in advance...




Computer -> USB -> mimby -> RCA -> jot


----------



## BarDash

allanmarcus said:


> Computer -> USB -> mimby -> RCA -> jot


 

 Gracias amigo.


----------



## dglow

bardash said:


> Hi friends,
> 
> Setup question here: I already own the Jodie and am thinking of purchasing the Modi Multibit and connecting it to my PC. On Schitts site it says use the usb from the Modi into the PC and RCA's to the amp (Jodie). Also, would both usb connections be connected into the computer or just the Modi?
> Is that the correct and "best" setup? Or is there something that might even be better?
> Sorry about the noobe question. Thanks in advance...


 

 You shouldn't have / don't need two USB connections. If you're ordering the Modi, consider buying your Joti without the USB DAC.


----------



## franzdom

zachik said:


> If you got a Jot with the DAC module, and be interested in a trade for a brand new Chord Mojo - PM me!


----------



## BarDash

dglow said:


> You shouldn't have / don't need two USB connections. If you're ordering the Modi, consider buying your Joti without the USB DAC.


 
 Unfortunately I already bought the Joti w/DAC. But I'd really like to get a Mulltibit with The Joti... I'm thinking no big loss because if I want to ever take it "portable" w/me it might come in useful. This is probably an obvious answer but if I hook up the Modi will it automatically become the default DAC?
 Does anyone know if it's even possible to remove the Joti DAC & install the Passive Phono at home or does it need to be sent back to Schitt? (Just in case I go that route) I'm no engineer, but somewhat handy.


----------



## MattTCG

bardash said:


> Unfortunately I already bought the Joti w/DAC. But I'd really like to get a Mulltibit with The Joti... I'm thinking no big loss because if I want to ever take it "portable" w/me it might come in useful. This is probably an obvious answer but if I hook up the Modi will it automatically become the default DAC?
> Does anyone know if it's even possible to remove the Joti DAC & install the Passive Phono at home or does it need to be sent back to Schitt? (Just in case I go that route) I'm no engineer, but somewhat handy.


 
  
 I've kept my eyes peeled for the super secret method to opening the case. Still waiting...
  
 My guess is that it's held together by sliding the top plate onto the bottom chassis until clicks in place. So if you take off the volume knob and slide the top forward, I'm guessing it would pop right off. If I can quit listening to it long enough, I'll try my theory.


----------



## Vigrith

bardash said:


> Unfortunately I already bought the Joti w/DAC. But I'd really like to get a Mulltibit with The Joti... I'm thinking no big loss because if I want to ever take it "portable" w/me it might come in useful. This is probably an obvious answer but if I hook up the Modi will it automatically become the default DAC?
> Does anyone know if it's even possible to remove the Joti DAC & install the Passive Phono at home or does it need to be sent back to Schitt? (Just in case I go that route) I'm no engineer, but somewhat handy.


 
  
 As per Schiit's official statement, buyers are not to operate module changes on the Jotunheim under any circumstance. Aka, if you know what you're doing and wanna risk it, who's stopping you, but if you screw up, it's on you and not them as they are not liable.
  
 Regarding the DAC, whichever one you have plugged into your computer through USB will play I suppose. I've not tried with the Jotunheim in particular yet as mine's on order, but if you have an amplifier with an integrated DAC and an external DAC hooked up to it via RCA/XLRs as well you can just have both of them hooked up through USB and then you just choose which you want to default your volume channels to on your sound board options in Windows (or iOS, or linux). If you hook up the Modi MB and not the internal, then it'll obviously bypass it by default as the only available source on your OS will be the Modi.


----------



## BarDash

matttcg said:


> I've kept my eyes peeled for the super secret method to opening the case. Still waiting...
> 
> My guess is that it's held together by sliding the top plate onto the bottom chassis until clicks in place. So if you take off the volume knob and slide the top forward, I'm guessing it would pop right off. If I can quit listening to it long enough, I'll try my theory.




I'm with ya,,, I'll wait till the YouTube how to video before I try anything.


----------



## BarDash

vigrith said:


> As per Schiit's official statement, buyers are not to operate module changes on the Jotunheim under any circumstance. Aka, if you know what you're doing and wanna risk it, who's stopping you, but if you screw up, it's on you and not them as they are not liable.
> 
> Regarding the DAC, whichever one you have plugged into your computer through USB will play I suppose. I've not tried with the Jotunheim in particular yet as mine's on order, but if you have an amplifier with an integrated DAC and an external DAC hooked up to it via RCA/XLRs as well you can just have both of them hooked up through USB and then you just choose which you want to default your volume channels to on your sound board options in Windows (or iOS, or linux). If you hook up the Modi MB and not the internal, then it'll obviously bypass it by default as the only available source on your OS will be the Modi.




Thanks, pretty much what I was thinking.


----------



## MWSVette

I switch between 2 DAC's.  I have an Emotiva DC-1 using the XLR inputs and the Bimby using the RCA inputs.  Then with a flip of the switch on the Jotunheim can switch between DAC's for easy A/B listening.


----------



## peterinvan

Apologies if this has been covered, but a thread search was unsuccessful.
  
 Has anyone used an (iPhone or iPad) > CCK > USB on the Jotunheim?
  
 If so, any impressions or problems?


----------



## Vigrith

Quote:


mwsvette said:


> I switch between 2 DAC's.  I have an Emotiva DC-1 using the XLR inputs and the Bimby using the RCA inputs.  Then with a flip of the switch on the Jotunheim can switch between DAC's for easy A/B listening.


 
  


bardash said:


> Thanks, pretty much what I was thinking.


 
  
 Actually, MWSVette brought up something I'd forgotten, the Jotunheim actually has that front switch that allows you to flip through inputs, XLR, RCA and USB. My bad, though what I said regarding OS sound board options is still valid for devices that don't offer that sort of easy panel access. Good Schiit.


----------



## BarDash

vigrith said:


> Actually, MWSVette brought up something I'd forgotten, the Jotunheim actually has that front switch that allows you to flip through inputs, XLR, RCA and USB. My bad, though what I said regarding OS sound board options is still valid for devices that don't offer that sort of easy panel access. Good Schiit.


 

 Thanks... I've been debating and reading different opinions on staying with the internal dac or going for the multibit. I'm wondering if it'll even be an audible difference to my ears but it seems as the consensus says it should.


----------



## ColtMrFire

No question multibit is going to be better than that internal DAC.


----------



## BarDash

You knows what's really great about the Joti? I have my hd800s plugged into the balanced and Ether C's in the SE and it's driving them both perfectly.


----------



## tekkster

maxx134 said:


> These "click/pop" issues are caused by low memory/page swapping issues on computer.
> 
> Install a bare mucic player with low memory requirements to test and verify.
> 
> You will need to Resolve your memory issues if you're using resource hogging music players.


 

 Thank you.  Will give that a try.


----------



## earnmyturns

This Bimby>Jotunheim>Ether C FLows is outstanding on jazz double bass. Just got Sam Rivers, Dave Holland, and Barry Altschul on "Reunion: Live in New York" (re-)released by Pi Recordings. Live recordings are not necessarily the best at capturing tonal subtleties, but what I'm hearing here of Holland's playing is superb, all fingerings, decays, fret impacts just there, with a big, full tone. I've heard Dave Holland live many times, but even then, this is something special. This combination is killing my not-shabby speaker system. I think I need a Pivot Point speaker amp fed by a balanced multibit DAC. Wondering what RMAF will reveal...


----------



## BarDash

Listening to flac Dave Brubecks Time Out whilst switching between the HD800s & Ether C's on the Jot and man it's really nice!!!


----------



## jimmers

Just ordered a Jotunheim, curiosity got the better of me, maybe _*I*_ should have a cat as my avatar 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I mainly listen to speakers
  
  





 
  
  
 Edit: looks like I better order an XLR and start lead making.


----------



## KLJTech

I need another headphone amp like I need another hole in my head. That said, in my office system I use the Gungnir feeding the Asgard 2 (LOVE this amp) which is also used as a preamp to my Parasound Halo A23. It just dawned on me that the Jotunheim would allow me to use the balanced outputs from the Gungnir and go balanced out to the A23's XLR inputs. The whole setup would be running balanced rather than single-ended. Would most of you see that as reason enough to grab a Jotunheim?
  
 I've never felt the Asgard 2 was underpowered for the headphones I use, the AudioQuest NightHawks, B&W P7's, HE-400 & 500's and my primary IEM's are the Westone W40's. None of my headphones are setup for running with a balanced amp, but adapters and new cables aren't hard to acquire.
  
 Any thoughts regarding the sound quality/signature of the Jotunheim vs the Asgard 2 and/or using the Jotunheim as an amp paired with the Gungnir via their XLR outputs and inputs? I've never heard the Gungnir from it's XLR outputs.
  
 Thanks in advance for any input you're able to provide! 
  
 You've gotta love how Schiit Audio keeps cranking out upgradable components (at very reasonable prices) that have to make others in the industry very nervous.


----------



## earnmyturns

kljtech said:


> Any thoughts regarding the sound quality/signature of the Jotunheim vs the Asgard 2 and/or using the Jotunheim as an amp paired with the Gungnir via their XLR outputs and inputs? I've never heard the Gungnir from it's XLR outputs.


 
 Bifrost Multibit>SE>Asgard 2>MrSpeakers SE DUM cable>MrSpeakers Ether C Flow
 vs
 Bifrost Multibit>SE>Jotunheim>MrSpeakers balanced DUM cable>MrSpeakers Ether C Flow
  
 Music: most contemporary jazz since I got the Jotunheim Friday night.
  
 Better instrument separation, double bass is fuller, more extended, percussion attack is more precise, some roughness in louder piano passages with the Asgard 2 is gone. I think the Asgard 2 is still a great amp for the money, but the Jotunheim is at a different level. I don't know how much of this is from balanced output vs the different amp topology, but I'm enjoying this so much that I'm not going to bother testing it single-ended. The Jotunheim presents the input so clearly and authoritatively that I'm starting to wonder about going balanced all the way with a Gumby.


----------



## GearMe

earnmyturns said:


> Bifrost Multibit>SE>Asgard 2>MrSpeakers SE DUM cable>MrSpeakers Ether C Flow
> vs
> Bifrost Multibit>SE>Jotunheim>MrSpeakers balanced DUM cable>MrSpeakers Ether C Flow
> 
> ...I don't know how much of this is from balanced output vs the different amp topology, but I'm enjoying this so much that I'm not going to bother testing it single-ended.




I get the enjoyment thing...but testing it via SE cable through the Jot might help answer your 'balanced' question and also provide helpful info to several of us that would be considering buying the Jot for it's balanced capabilities. Just sayin'


----------



## Tuneslover

I must confess that I enjoy upgrading my Schiit gear. I swapped out the Über board for a 4490 earlier this year, sold my original Magni and bought a Magni2Ü over a year ago. A few weeks ago I sold my original Modi and replaced it with a Modi MB.

Although I'm happy with how the Magni2Ü and Bifrost 4490 combination sounds on my iMac system I'm wondering how much different the Joti (in place of the M2Ü) would sound. Power wise, single ended, I believe there isn't too much difference between them however I'm interested in knowing if the different architectures would yield different sonics.

Beyond potential sonic improvements with the Joti, I suppose further improvements might be attained if I invested in balanced cables for my HD650's. Any opinions on this "considered" upgrade? Thanks in advance!


----------



## WilCox

peterinvan said:


> Apologies if this has been covered, but a thread search was unsuccessful.
> 
> Has anyone used an (iPhone or iPad) > CCK > USB on the Jotunheim?
> 
> If so, any impressions or problems?




The CCK works great playing 24/96 files via FLAC Player.


----------



## KLJTech

earnmyturns said:


> Bifrost Multibit>SE>Asgard 2>MrSpeakers SE DUM cable>MrSpeakers Ether C Flow
> vs
> Bifrost Multibit>SE>Jotunheim>MrSpeakers balanced DUM cable>MrSpeakers Ether C Flow
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the feedback! I'm not that big into upgrading my gear at this point as I went crazy (beyond crazy) doing that in the 90's, but I do love me some new, interesting amp topologies and it would allow me to run the entire setup balanced. Maybe my oldest son would enjoy a great sounding Class A headphone amp.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Ordered Jot on Friday morning, still no shipping notice from Schiit... how long did it take for y'all to get it shipped?  Not bitching or panicking, just curious.


----------



## franzdom

kljtech said:


> Thanks for the feedback! I'm not that big into upgrading my gear at this point as I went crazy (beyond crazy) doing that in the 90's, but I do love me some new, interesting amp topologies and it would allow me to run the entire setup balanced. Maybe my oldest son would enjoy a great sounding Class A headphone amp.


 
  
 I did it in the 80's & 90's, took it easy in the naughties, it's time again I think!


----------



## sheldaze

coltmrfire said:


> Ordered Jot on Friday morning, still no shipping notice from Schiit... how long did it take for y'all to get it shipped?  Not bitching or panicking, just curious.


 
 Ordered at 1:05 pm and shipped at 1:14 pm, middle of that first week - I think they were looking for these immediately after the show. Still it was shocking how fast it went through.
  
 I'm sure they will get it out to you first thing Monday morning.


----------



## tekkster

So, as an old guy with hearing that can't hear anything above 15kHz, it's enough to hear significant differences between using the Jot or not. I'm wondering if someone with bad hearing like mine would hear a difference between adding a bifrost in between the source and the Jot.

Everywhere i look, people seem to have positive things to say about the bifrost, but I'm a bit concerned about spending a few c bills and hearing no difference. Does anyone happen to know of a place in the Bay Area, San Francisco to East Bay to San Jose, where it is possible to try it?

Not sure if this factors into whether i would hear any difference, but i listen to a lot of tommy flanagan, brubeck, davis, coltrane, thelonius, ellington, phineas newborn, w. bobo, floyd huddleston, dinah w., mindi abair, t. matsunaga, c. yamanaka, parker, art tatum, gillespie, armstrong etc. / vivaldi, schumer, bach, wa mozart, f mozart, poledouris, gershwin, karajan, pachelbel, prokofiev, brahms / hans zimmer, morricone, horner, e.s. posthumus, mancina, powell, williams, edelman, ernest gold, thomas newman / il divo, any of the four tenors, celine dion, aguilera, norah jones, patty griffin, adele, lauryn hill, s. vega, ray charles, marley, ub40, clapton, rush, yes, journey, floyd, sting, joel, mj, s. wonder, some opera / audiomachine, chris haig, david garrett, lindsey stirling, piano guys, bond, california guitar trio, sungha jung, david foster, ronald jenkees, t-square, chihiro yamanaka, keiko matsui, chris botti (don't judge me), kenny g (don't judge me), yanni (don't judge me), vanessa mae, michelle mclaughlin (fiddle), michael hedges, helen jane long, chen min moom, joe hisaishi / mana, peter buffett, lozada (don't judge me), dinbar, poerto rican power, santana, etc.


----------



## MWSVette

Ordered mine on the Saturday they announced.  Had it shipped Fed Ex ground because I was being cheap.  Schiit shipped first thing on Monday (great customer service).  Got my tracking number.  Looked at estimated delivery date, that Friday.
  
 Kicked myself for 5 days wishing I had done 2 day delivery.
  
 Oh, how we get excited about receiving our new Schiit...


----------



## legohorse

I ordered mine on 10th September, until now still no notice


----------



## ColtMrFire

legohorse said:


> I ordered mine on 10th September, until now still no notice




That's not normal. Did you email them?


----------



## legohorse

Yeah, I emailed them last Friday, still no reply from them.


----------



## ColtMrFire

That is not typical schiit behavior, they are usually very fast with replies. Which email did you use?


----------



## legohorse

orders@schiit.com. I reckoned that was the appropriate email address to send an inquiry to.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Try info@schiit.com
  
 That is apparently the fastest response... I would call them actually.  That's a long time to wait for a shipment from them.


----------



## Clemmaster

Maybe they're enjoying their weekend? Try again Monday.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Enjoying the weekend is well and good, but the guy ordered 10 days ago without a peep.  But yes, they are likely out of the shop until Monday.  I know alot of businesses still check emails on the weekends though (email is fairly ubiquitous at this point), and MIGHT be able to offer a quick response if it's a simple matter/mix up.


----------



## legohorse

I will wait until Monday. I'm halfway around the globe so not too keen on calling them. I was also quite surprised because I read on this forum that they are very prompt in replies and in shipping. They also mentioned on their site that it'll take 1-3 business days to ship out.


----------



## Delayeed

How does Jotunheim with DAC module compare with Mjolnir 2 Gumby stack? I like big and heavy things, but the Jotunheim seems to be a good value too, although the DAC module won't do justice to the amp.


----------



## earnmyturns

gearme said:


> I get the enjoyment thing...but testing it via SE cable through the Jot might help answer your 'balanced' question and also provide helpful info to several of us that would be considering buying the Jot for it's balanced capabilities. Just sayin'


 
 Your wish is my command  Just compared the first track "Proximity (Crossroads)" of Vijay Iyer's "Blood Sutra" album. Slow piano, double bass, drums with quite a bit of dynamic range. DUM SE cable for the SE, DUM balanced on XLR. Tried to balance volume as best as I could. The main qualities of the Jotunheim are present in both (neutral with a touch of smoothness, handles dynamic range well with good control in louder piano notes, attack/decay very realistic). But balanced has better spatial separation/stereo imaging, and brings out more the double bass low notes and their slow decay. Caveat: the two DUM cables are not exactly the same, the balanced one is more recent and thicker.


----------



## MWSVette

delayeed said:


> How does Jotunheim with DAC module compare with Mjolnir 2 Gumby stack? I like big and heavy things, but the Jotunheim seems to be a good value too, although the DAC module won't do justice to the amp.


 
 The DAC module would not fair well against the Gumby.  However you are talking a $100.00 add on DAC vs a DAC costing between $849.00 and $1249.00.  While I do not have the add on DAC (I use a Bimby) so far it has been well received.
  
 And as far as big and heavy things.  Hmmm,  Schiit by the pound...


----------



## earnmyturns

legohorse said:


> I will wait until Monday. I'm halfway around the globe so not too keen on calling them. I was also quite surprised because I read on this forum that they are very prompt in replies and in shipping. They also mentioned on their site that it'll take 1-3 business days to ship out.


 
 Have you checked your spam email folder? I've done 5 transactions with Schiit, latest a Jot, and they always responded very quickly.


----------



## MWSVette

earnmyturns said:


> Have you checked your spam email folder? I've done 5 transactions with Schiit, latest a Jot, and they always responded very quickly.


 
 Good point, on my first order the email confirmation went to my spam folder.  Probably has something to do with the company name being Schiit...


----------



## Vigrith

mwsvette said:


> Oh, how we get excited about receiving our new Schiit...


 
  
 Nothing better than getting some Schiit in the mail first thing in the morning.


----------



## BarDash

Emailed Schiit Friday with a question got an answer from Nick the Schiit tech yesterday. Used address: info@schiit.com


----------



## jimmers

tekkster said:


> So, as an old guy with hearing that can't hear anything above 15kHz, it's enough to hear significant differences between using the Jot or not. I'm wondering if someone with bad hearing like mine would hear a difference between adding a bifrost in between the source and the Jot.
> 
> Everywhere i look, people seem to have positive things to say about the bifrost, but I'm a bit concerned about spending a few c bills and hearing no difference. Does anyone happen to know of a place in the Bay Area, San Francisco to East Bay to San Jose, where it is possible to try it?


 
 You don't say what your source is, what you are using as a DAC at the moment or which Bifrost you are considering. I'm sure you will get some opinions if you give more details of what you have now.
 I have a Bifrost multibit and my enjoyment of my music has increased more than I expected since I started using it, if this is the DAC you were thinking of but the price is too high there is the Modi multibit which would appear to offer most of the sound quality for less than half the price.
 The difference I notice is not reliant on extended hearing range as it seems to have more to do with timing, tone and dynamics. 
  
 edit: Also ... Schiit have a 15 day return policy that you can read on their site.


----------



## tekkster

jimmers said:


> You don't say what your source is, what you are using as a DAC at the moment or which Bifrost you are considering. I'm sure you will get some opinions if you give more details of what you have now.
> I have a Bifrost multibit and my enjoyment of my music has increased more than I expected since I started using it, if this is the DAC you were thinking of but the price is too high there is the Modi multibit which would appear to offer most of the sound quality for less than half the price.
> The difference I notice is not reliant on extended hearing range as it seems to have more to do with timing, tone and dynamics.
> 
> edit: Also ... Schiit have a 15 day return policy that you can read on their site.


 

 My current source is an iMac, using JRiver -> optical audio out -> Mojo -> SE to Jotunheim -> SE to T1 or balanced to HD800

 From what I've been reading, seems a lot of people say good things about Bifrost multibit, so iMac/Jriver -> USB to Wyrd -> USB to Bifrost -> SE or balanced to Jot -> balanced to HD800 or SE to T1 is what I would consider.

 I'm just not sure that my aging ears could hear a difference at all.  I'm thinking my hearing is too crappy to hear a difference.  But curious.


----------



## tretneo

Wanted to free up some desk space so I found a way to mount my Jot underneath. Turned out pretty good actually (used a paper tray, some pipe clamps and a few wood screws to the tune of $6 or so) and got the job done. Very convenient little all-in-one package, thanks Schiit!


----------



## franzdom

It should have more space overhead to allow the heatsinks to function.


----------



## earnmyturns

tretneo said:


> Wanted to free up some desk space so I found a way to mount my Jot underneath. Turned out pretty good actually (used a paper tray, some pipe clamps and a few wood screws to the tune of $6 or so) and got the job done. Very convenient little all-in-one package, thanks Schiit!


 
 That's a nice setup! 2 Qs: 1) what's the gadget you are using to hang the headphones? 2) do you think there's enough clearance for airflow between the top of the Jot and the desk?


----------



## tretneo

franzdom said:


> It should have more space overhead to allow the heatsinks to function.


 
  
 Pic is deceiving, there's more space than appears to be. That said I am keeping an eye on temps and I am keeping things well ventilated in general. It's a standing desk with a cross breeze under there. We'll see how it goes.


----------



## earnmyturns

tekkster said:


> My current source is an iMac, using JRiver -> optical audio out -> Mojo -> SE to Jotunheim -> SE to T1 or balanced to HD800
> 
> From what I've been reading, seems a lot of people say good things about Bifrost multibit, so iMac/Jriver -> USB to Wyrd -> USB to Bifrost -> SE or balanced to Jot -> balanced to HD800 or SE to T1 is what I would consider.
> 
> I'm just not sure that my aging ears could hear a difference at all.  I'm thinking my hearing is too crappy to hear a difference.  But curious.


 
 If you are happy with optical, Bifrost takes it as well, no need for the USB/Wyrd extras.


----------



## franzdom

Ideally you should have several inches of clearance.


----------



## tretneo

earnmyturns said:


> That's a nice setup! 2 Qs: 1) what's the gadget you are using to hang the headphones? 2) do you think there's enough clearance for airflow between the top of the Jot and the desk?


 
  
 1) https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1107611-REG/auray_cohh_1_headphone_holder_with_padded.html
 2) Hopefully, monitoring it


----------



## pkbarter

Further impressions:
  
 I've spent the evening revisiting the Multibit Modi compared to the DAC in the Jot. The difference this time was that I'm using balanced headphones (LCD-X) to do the comparison. Last time, I was comparing everything using both SE and balanced, and with LCD-X and HD800 (the HD800's are SE only in my case).
  
 Now I don't know DAC I prefer. 
  
 I still hear the details in the Modi Multi as richer, especially in the high end. It's like being there for the subtlest sounds instead of having them played through transducers. 
  
 What surprises me about is that the DAC in the Jot—and perhaps because it's balanced and able to cash in on that w/ the balanced cable/cans—is that it seems to offer a bigger soundstage. The sensation with the Jot balanced DAC that the mids and lows get out of the middle of my head and move to a more comfortable and appropriate distance from me and from each other. There's also the sensation of less volume w/ the Jot dac compared to the Modi Multi. Loud sections are intense without seeming as oppressively/uncomfortably loud. 
  
 I'm listening to Bjork's Vespertine, which is a masterpiece of production and richness of sound. The separation of sounds in this recording and their spacial interest is incredible. For this type of recording (a better example of which I'm not familiar), I prefer the Jot's balanced DAC. For albums recorded more simply or with a less thrilling sense of space, I still prefer the multibit--particularly if cymbals are involved. 
  
 I really don't like where this is going. Do I need to get a balanced Multibit DAC? This is crazy. 
  
 edit: worth noting: both DACs had only been on for about an hour, perhaps a bit less. It seems like that may not have been enough time for the Multibits to warm up as they are reported to prefer; and perhaps that spacial difference was unfair. I'll listen back for changes once everything's nice and warm. If something changes, I'll add it somewhere.


----------



## Allanmarcus

pkbarter said:


> Further impressions:
> 
> I've spent the evening revisiting the Multibit Modi compared to the DAC in the Jot. The difference this time was that I'm using balanced headphones (LCD-X) to do the comparison. Last time, I was comparing everything using both SE and balanced, and with LCD-X and HD800 (the HD800's are SE only in my case).
> 
> ...


 

 Yes, you need an Yggy or at least a Gumby
  
 Of, bear with me, you are massively over analyzing this and you need to just enjoy your music


----------



## Allanmarcus

tretneo said:


> earnmyturns said:
> 
> 
> > That's a nice setup! 2 Qs: 1) what's the gadget you are using to hang the headphones? 2) do you think there's enough clearance for airflow between the top of the Jot and the desk?
> ...


 

 slightly cheaper alternative
 https://www.amazon.com/Brainwavz-Hengja-Headphone-Desk-Hanger/dp/B012VIWG28


----------



## ColtMrFire

Mimby is a better DAC than than the one inside Jot by far. Some people simply prefer the more "velvet/bloomy" sound of the D/S DACs. I personally don't get it, but everyone has their taste. The Jot was actually getting mixed reviews at Schiit show because people could only listen to the internal DAC. When people started buying it and hooking it up to better external DACs, the reviews got way more positive.


----------



## pkbarter

allanmarcus said:


> Yes, you need an Yggy or at least a Gumby
> 
> Of, bear with me, you are massively over analyzing this and you need to just enjoy your music


 
  
 Reminds me of the story—and I wish I remembered the details or where I heard it—of a guy who invited his friends over to show off his new audio equipment. One of the friends, when asked how he liked the new stuff, said "yeah, it's nice; but I don't get why you spent so much money on it." The proud and now frustrated new owner says "well, your speakers don't even go above 8k. I tested them". To which the listener said "I guess everything I like about Beethoven is below 8k".


----------



## Allanmarcus

coltmrfire said:


> Mimby is a better DAC than than the one inside Jot by far. Some people simply prefer the more "velvet/bloomy" sound of the D/S DACs.


 
  
 And there you have the difference. The two DACs are different and have different sounds. Some prefer one, some prefer the other. There may not even be an even split there (many may prefer the Mimby). That's why one is not "better" than the other. You can only describe the differences and let the listener determine which is preferred.


----------



## Letmebefrank

pkbarter said:


> I really don't like where this is going. Do I need to get a balanced Multibit DAC? This is crazy.
> 
> edit: worth noting: both DACs had only been on for about an hour, perhaps a bit less. It seems like that may not have been enough time for the Multibits to warm up as they are reported to prefer; and perhaps that spacial difference was unfair. I'll listen back for changes once everything's nice and warm. If something changes, I'll add it somewhere.




Let your Mimby warm up. It technically needs about 2 hours for the chips inside to become bit perfect, and it seems to improve slightly more with up to a day of warm up.


----------



## tretneo

allanmarcus said:


> slightly cheaper alternative
> https://www.amazon.com/Brainwavz-Hengja-Headphone-Desk-Hanger/dp/B012VIWG28


 
  
 I considered this one but went w/ the auray model because I was worried about headphones slipping off the edge of the hanger.


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

All the Schiit multibit DACs need warm up. The Mimby does have a small soundstage, but I'm willing to make that trade off for the exceptional tonal accuracy it delivers. I would only use the internal DAC if it were the only DAC I had available (not that it's a bad DAC, but it comes in third after my Mimby and GO2a running balanced out to the Joti).

I think drums in particular benefit from multibit DACs, the Mimby is scary good at making me think I'm hearing real drums in the room with me.


----------



## ColtMrFire

I leave Mimby on all the time. Best thing to do with Schiit R2R DACs.


----------



## legohorse

Yeah I have checked my spam folder as well, but still no email.


----------



## koven

letmebefrank said:


> Let your Mimby warm up. It technically needs about 2 hours for the chips inside to become bit perfect, and it seems to improve slightly more with up to a day of warm up.


 
  
 I just leave mine on 24/7, lol, is that bad?


----------



## earnmyturns

tretneo said:


> I considered this one but went w/ the auray model because I was worried about headphones slipping off the edge of the hanger.


 
 Auray model on order, those others are a bit skimpy, would not want my Ether C Flows crash to the floor from my standing desk at the smallest temblor (I'm in CA after all).


----------



## MWSVette

allanmarcus said:


> And there you have the difference. The two DACs are different and have different sounds. Some prefer one, some prefer the other. There may not even be an even split there (many may prefer the Mimby). That's why one is not "better" than the other. You can only describe the differences and let the listener determine which is preferred.


 
  
  
 I agree 100%.   It is all personal preference.  The add on for the Jotunheim is an excellent little fully balanced dual 4490 DAC for $100.00.  While I prefer the multibit Bifrost others prefer the 4490.
  
 Technically better maybe but only the listener can determine which sounds better to them...


----------



## maxh22

Hello All!
  
 Can anyone comment on the sound of the Jotunheim? Does it sound warm, neutral? I'm planning on pairing it with the Chord Mojo and am going to be using the HD 700's for now. I will soon be upgrading to the HD 800 or HD 800S so I plan on using the balanced output. 
  
 How is the single ended performance compared to the Asgard 2? On paper the asgard has more power in single ended mode.
  
 Is the Jotenheim more transparent? What about transparency against the Mjolnir 2?
  
 Feel free to give me any input you guys may have.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## iamxLn

I haven't heard the joti, but it's been said many times that it may not be the best pairing for the hd800 and its sound sig is neutral and forward.


----------



## slex

Since its AB class amp, can anyone comments on the highs treble, anything hash and out of place treble extension?


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

coltmrfire said:


> $600???  I didn't realize the Sonnet was that cheap.  I take back what I said.
> 
> Also, did you say you had the HD800/Jot combo?  How does it sound to you?


 
  
 There was a Sonett and a Sonett 2.  Maybe you were thinking of the later, which I think was $1100/$1200.  Either way, the only option on these rare amps are the used market anyways...


----------



## ColtMrFire

maxh22 said:


> Hello All!
> 
> Can anyone comment on the sound of the Jotunheim? Does it sound warm, neutral? I'm planning on pairing it with the Chord Mojo and am going to be using the HD 700's for now. I will soon be upgrading to the HD 800 or HD 800S so I plan on using the balanced output.
> 
> ...




Read the thread.


----------



## Letmebefrank

koven said:


> I just leave mine on 24/7, lol, is that bad?




Nope, mine has only been turned off twice since I bought it on launch day, and that's when I went to Michigan for a week, and when I changed to a furman pst-8d power conditioner from a regular surge protector.


----------



## ColtMrFire

iamxln said:


> I haven't heard the joti, but it's been said many times that it may not be the best pairing for the hd800 and its sound sig is neutral and forward.




Opinions on that seem mixed. Some love the pairing, some don't. Seems keeping in line with opinions on the HD800 in general. It is a love it/hate it headphone.


----------



## Ancipital

I ordered mine on the 6th, it shipped on the 9th. 


coltmrfire said:


> Ordered Jot on Friday morning, still no shipping notice from Schiit... how long did it take for y'all to get it shipped?  Not bitching or panicking, just curious.


 
 I ordered mine on the 6th, it shipped on the 9th. 
  
 It's possible that they're into the main demand spike now from people who've read all the fuss, and that  they're busy.
  
 Bear in mind that their standard schtick is "STATUS: In stock. Orders placed now ship in 1-3 business days.", so if you ordered on Friday, you should probably only start getting antsy on Wednesday or so.


----------



## KLJTech

How is the tracking on those volume pots at low levels set on Low Gain?
 I assume it tracks great as Schiit always seems to use very good pots, but I haven't seen it mentioned._ I apologize if it's been talked about_ _and I simply didn't see it_. I've worked a ton of hours the past few weeks and though I have looked I haven't had time to read the entire thread. 
  
 I would be using the Jotunheim in my office system (replacing an Asgard 2) and I often use IEM's (Westone W40's) or easier to drive can's like the B&W P7's. Ultimately, I want to use it for it's balanced out to the AQ NightHawks and HE-500's. The Jotunheim would also allow me to use the XLR outs from my Gungnir rather than single-ended out to the Asgard 2.


----------



## ColtMrFire

ancipital said:


> I ordered mine on the 6th, it shipped on the 9th.
> I ordered mine on the 6th, it shipped on the 9th.
> 
> It's possible that they're into the main demand spike now from people who've read all the fuss, and that  they're busy.
> ...




Like the guy who ordered 10 (now 11) days ago?


----------



## franzdom

Be advised, their availability isn't updated well, for instance I ordered Yggy when it said it would ship in approximately 3 weeks and it shipped the day I ordered it (about 10 days ago). It goes both ways but I wouldn't bet on their availabilities being accurate.


----------



## Ancipital

coltmrfire said:


> Like the guy who ordered 10 (now 11) days ago?


 
 No, like the guy who ordered on Friday morning, who I believe I was replying to.


----------



## earnmyturns

maxh22 said:


> Hello All!
> 
> Can anyone comment on the sound of the Jotunheim? Does it sound warm, neutral? I'm planning on pairing it with the Chord Mojo and am going to be using the HD 700's for now. I will soon be upgrading to the HD 800 or HD 800S so I plan on using the balanced output.
> 
> ...


 
 Jotunheim sounds relatively neutral, maybe a tad warmer than the Asgard 2. Even single-ended, I like it better than the Asgard 2 in general, and specifically because of its better handling of loud piano passages. Balanced, it does a much better job on bass. All tested with MrSpeakers Ether C Flow.


----------



## maxh22

earnmyturns said:


> Jotunheim sounds relatively neutral, maybe a tad warmer than the Asgard 2. Even single-ended, I like it better than the Asgard 2 in general, and specifically because of its better handling of loud piano passages. Balanced, it does a much better job on bass. All tested with MrSpeakers Ether C Flow.




Thank you! 

If the Jot handles piano pieces better than Asgard than most likely it is the more transparent amp. On some amps/dacs it can be hard to keep track of the piano because of either it's higher noise floor and or RF noise. The noise makes it hard to focus on individual instruments or singers.


----------



## Defiant00

So, did this yesterday:
  

  
 Tested primarily with HD800S (SE only) and HD600, and personally I quite like it. Jotunheim has what feels like a bit faster / slightly more treble, but it actually makes me think that the Asgard 2 is just a little bit mellow and laid back. Cymbals sound just a touch more realistic without sounding harsh, although I certainly could see it being too much if the recording isn't great.
  
 My other takeaway is that good neutral solid state amps sound remarkably similar to each other, and while I'm impressed with how good the Jot sounds, the Asgard 2 is no slouch. Maybe if I went balanced I'd notice some further differences, but I kind of doubt it. Just to emphasize again, the differences above (already couched with 'a bit', 'slightly', etc.) are very small to me, and not even something I could reliably pick out.
  
 With that said, I'm considering selling the A2 and keeping the Jot, but that's definitely more for future potential balanced DAC upgrades than any big sound quality differences.
  
  
 Also, to the question of low-level channel balance, mine has a bit from around 7-7:30 on the pot, so not bad but not as good as my Asgard 2 which, if it's imbalanced at all, is so low I've never been able to reliably hear it.


----------



## Vigrith

earnmyturns said:


> Jotunheim sounds relatively neutral, maybe a tad warmer than the Asgard 2.


 
  


defiant00 said:


> Jotunheim has what feels like a bit faster / slightly more treble, but it actually makes me think that the Asgard 2 is just a little bit mellow and laid back.


 
  

  
  
 Oh, the joy of audio equipment comparisons, LOL. I'm just hoping the Jotunheim isn't bright as I have pretty sensitive hearing.


----------



## sheldaze

vigrith said:


> Oh, the joy of audio equipment comparisons, LOL. I'm just hoping the Jotunheim isn't bright as I have pretty sensitive hearing.


 
 It can be very bright, depending on the source, music, headphone. Think of the Jodie as more literal. It is not going to hold back. If the music screeches, you're going to hear the screech.


----------



## Vigrith

sheldaze said:


> It can be very bright, depending on the source, music, headphone. Think of the Jodie as more literal. It is not going to hold back. If the music screeches, you're going to hear the screech.


 
  
 Yea, as per Jason's post in the Schiit thread he referred to the Jodie as "characterless" I believe it was, which is perfectly in line with your "more literal" description - that's fine by me, my favourite headphones aren't analytical to begin with (aside the T90s which I can just use with one of my tube amps anyway), nor are either of my DACs. The clashing opinions in the posts I quoted were funny to me seeing as prior to Jotunheim's release a fair amount of people would say the Asgard 2 is definitely on the leaner and brighter side (as is the Magni 2) but now it goes as far as being said to be "a little bit mellow and laid back". Which I have no doubt can be the case of course, it's just interesting how things can shift with new technological advances and new devices coming out.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Yes, Jot is supposed to just give you whatever DAC/source is feeding it. Very transparent.


----------



## Ancipital

vigrith said:


> Oh, the joy of audio equipment comparisons, LOL. I'm just hoping the Jotunheim isn't bright as I have pretty sensitive hearing.


 
  
 Just to confuse more, I'd not say "bright" per se. I don't think it really spikes the treble, it's just not shy about it. It's a little.. _forward_. Be sure to post how you find it, and whether this assertion is le crap or not, when yours arrives, as I'd love to hear what you thought.


----------



## Defiant00

vigrith said:


> Oh, the joy of audio equipment comparisons, LOL. I'm just hoping the Jotunheim isn't bright as I have pretty sensitive hearing.


 
  
  


vigrith said:


> Yea, as per Jason's post in the Schiit thread he referred to the Jodie as "characterless" I believe it was, which is perfectly in line with your "more literal" description - that's fine by me, my favourite headphones aren't analytical to begin with (aside the T90s which I can just use with one of my tube amps anyway), nor are either of my DACs. The clashing opinions in the posts I quoted were funny to me seeing as prior to Jotunheim's release a fair amount of people would say the Asgard 2 is definitely on the leaner and brighter side (as is the Magni 2) but now it goes as far as being said to be "a little bit mellow and laid back". Which I have no doubt can be the case of course, it's just interesting how things can shift with new technological advances and new devices coming out.


 
  
 Yup, and prior to hearing the Jot I wouldn't have suspected the A2's treble as being anything but neutral, but having heard better / more accurate (to me / as far as I can tell / I wasn't in the recording studio disclaimer), I do think the A2 has just a hint less treble than neutral. And again, this is all very _very_ minor to my ears. Neither has piercing treble (even with the HD800S), at least with Bimby as my source.


----------



## Vigrith

ancipital said:


> Just to confuse more, I'd not say "bright" per se. I don't think it really spikes the treble, it's just not shy about it. It's a little.. _forward_. Be sure to post how you find it, and whether this assertion is le crap or not, when yours arrives, as I'd love to hear what you thought.


 
  
 Yea generally when I refer to something as bright I just mean prone to harsh treble - that might not be correct at all, I'm relatively new to this hobby still and some of the technical terms are not my forte. I'm sure the Jotunheim sounds forward though, that has been something pretty much every owner has stated, though forward is not an issue for me at all, I actually quite enjoy that unless it is too relentless in the upper frequencies (hence my usage of bright).
  
 I'll be sure to post of course, still waiting as it only shipped a couple days ago, should be here before the end of the week hopefully.


----------



## Ancipital

vigrith said:


> Yea generally when I refer to something as bright I just mean prone to harsh treble - that might not be correct at all, I'm relatively new to this hobby still and some of the technical terms are not my forte. I'm sure the Jotunheim sounds forward though, that has been something pretty much every owner has stated, though forward is not an issue for me at all, I actually quite enjoy that unless it is too relentless in the upper frequencies (hence my usage of bright).
> 
> I'll be sure to post of course, still waiting as it only shipped a couple days ago, should be here before the end of the week hopefully.


 
  
 Great, I'll hold you to that!
  
 I think the forward and powerful sound is a massive boon for my HD650, which have never sounded better. I was a bit scared how my HE400i, with its little mid-treble spike would fare, but actually sounds better than it did on my little Magni 2U. The only downside is I'm losing sleep from late night listening to favourite albums.
  
 (I'm sufficiently happy that I can see the Magni getting listed in the For Sale section pretty soon now, for someone else who is feeling risk-averse and wants a tiny beefy SS amp)


----------



## Alchemist007

Might've already jumped on this if it had a line out instead of a pre out.


----------



## theveterans

DAC has line out while amps have preamp outs


----------



## franzdom

theveterans said:


> DAC has line out while amps have preamp outs


----------



## Alchemist007

theveterans said:


> DAC has line out while amps have preamp outs


 

 From what I see, the Jot with the 4490 upgrade, still only has preamp out. Are you saying it comes with a line out?


----------



## Allanmarcus

theveterans said:


> DAC has line out while amps have preamp outs


 

 Lots of desktop unit that are amps also have line out. Most receivers has "rec out", which ineffectively the same as line out. Many amps have a fixed volume pre-out, which is also effectively a line out. The Jot only has variable pre-out, but others have fixed as an option.


----------



## franzdom

allanmarcus said:


> Lots of desktop unit that are amps also have line out. Most receivers has "rec out", which ineffectively the same as line out. Many amps have a fixed volume pre-out, which is also effectively a line out. The Jot only has variable pre-out, but others have fixed as an option.


 
  
 That's all fine and good but this is a Jotenheim thread and so unless something else is mentioned it's safe to assume we are still talking about Jotenheims.


----------



## Allanmarcus

franzdom said:


> allanmarcus said:
> 
> 
> > Lots of desktop unit that are amps also have line out. Most receivers has "rec out", which ineffectively the same as line out. Many amps have a fixed volume pre-out, which is also effectively a line out. The Jot only has variable pre-out, but others have fixed as an option.
> ...


 
  
 I was responding to discussion about pre-outs. Some people that are looking for fixed pre-out (e.g., line out) need to understand the Jot doesn't have that. So, it's relevant.


----------



## franzdom

allanmarcus said:


> I was responding to discussion about pre-outs. Some people that are looking for fixed pre-out (e.g., line out) need to understand the Jot doesn't have that. So, it's relevant.


 
  
 Ok, if you see it that way.
 theveterans was talking about some sort of DAC having line out and obviously this amp even with DAC card does not.
 That was my point about this being a Jot thread.


----------



## Alchemist007

I'm considering perhaps getting the dacless Jot now. Question is, can I use my Odac's line out (with a 3.5mm to rca cable) and _split that_ with this:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Pack-Lot-RCA-Splitter-1-Female-to-2-Female-AV-Audio-Video-Y-Adapter-Converter-/350738394647?hash=item51a9a32e17:g:LxoAAOSwe-FU54fK
  
 so that one white becomes two white, one red becomes two red, to use as a dual line out - one for the jot and one for my other amp? I would only have one turned on at a time.


----------



## Defiant00

alchemist007 said:


> I'm considering perhaps getting the dacless Jot now. Question is, can I use my Odac's line out (with a 3.5mm to rca cable) and _split that_ with this:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Pack-Lot-RCA-Splitter-1-Female-to-2-Female-AV-Audio-Video-Y-Adapter-Converter-/350738394647?hash=item51a9a32e17:g:LxoAAOSwe-FU54fK
> 
> so that one white becomes two white, one red becomes two red, to use as a dual line out - one for the jot and one for my other amp? I would only have one turned on at a time.


 
  
 Yup, going from DAC to amp(s) that way is typically fine. You can even use both amps at once if you want.


----------



## Ancipital

alchemist007 said:


> I'm considering perhaps getting the dacless Jot now. Question is, can I use my Odac's line out (with a 3.5mm to rca cable) and _split that_ with this:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Pack-Lot-RCA-Splitter-1-Female-to-2-Female-AV-Audio-Video-Y-Adapter-Converter-/350738394647?hash=item51a9a32e17:g:LxoAAOSwe-FU54fK
> 
> so that one white becomes two white, one red becomes two red, to use as a dual line out - one for the jot and one for my other amp? I would only have one turned on at a time.


 
  
 Be aware that it's quite a revealing amp, you'll get to hear exactly how disappointing that ODAC is. I have a nasty suspicion that you should probably drop the extra $99 for the cheap and cheeerful balanced 4490 built-in rather than use it with an ODAC.


----------



## ToddRaymond

I guess it's safe to say that this is a Codex killer.   It's sort of the inverse of the Codex, in that the amp section on this is likely far superior.  (Disclaimer:  I have heard the Codex, and most of Schiit's amps, but have not yet heard the Jotunheim.)  On the other hand, I imagine you need an external Schiit multibit DAC to really hear what this Jotunthing is capable of (goes without saying at this point).


----------



## Alchemist007

ancipital said:


> Be aware that it's quite a revealing amp, you'll get to hear exactly how disappointing that ODAC is. I have a nasty suspicion that you should probably drop the extra $99 for the cheap and cheeerful balanced 4490 built-in rather than use it with an ODAC.


 
 Possible, though I'd get an external dac then too because I want a line out for both amps I'd then have. Question then becomes which dac to get


----------



## ColtMrFire

franzdom said:


> Ok, if you see it that way.
> theveterans was talking about some sort of DAC having line out and obviously this amp even with DAC card does not.
> That was my point about this being a Jot thread.




The original post was about Jot not having line out. Allanmarcus was merely clearing up some terminology as it relates to Jot.


----------



## Vigrith

alchemist007 said:


> Possible, though I'd get an external dac then too because I want a line out for both amps I'd then have. Question then becomes which dac to get


 
  
 Modi Multibit. If you want a step up from the ODAC without raping your wallet and have a taste of what MB sounds as opposed to D/S you really should not bother looking anywhere else. There are other good DACs around but for $250... Yea. Though if you wanna just order the Jotunheim with the inbuilt DAC module (I did, though I own a MB Modi too) I'm fairly confident it should still be a considerable step up from the ODAC.


----------



## Alchemist007

vigrith said:


> Modi Multibit. If you want a step up from the ODAC without raping your wallet and have a taste of what MB sounds as opposed to D/S you really should not bother looking anywhere else. There are other good DACs around but for $250... Yea. Though if you wanna just order the Jotunheim with the inbuilt DAC module (I did, though I own a MB Modi too) I'm fairly confident it should still be a considerable step up from the ODAC.


 
 How would you compare the MB Modi to the 4490?


----------



## ColtMrFire

alchemist007 said:


> How would you compare the MB Modi to the 4490?




Haven't heard the Jot 4490 but I went from Bifrost4490 to Modibit. Modibit has way less "bloom" and "velvet lushness". It is far more natural and realistic sounding. More neutral with less grain and harshness. 4490 was actually excellent for a D/S DAC but it still suffered from D/S syndrome...that overdone bloomy velvet kind of sound with tizzy/slightly metallic highs. After seeing what multibit can do, I am never going back to D/S. For $250 Mimby is a no brainer.


----------



## JLoud

kljtech said:


> I need another headphone amp like I need another hole in my head. That said, in my office system I use the Gungnir feeding the Asgard 2 (LOVE this amp) which is also used as a preamp to my Parasound Halo A23. It just dawned on me that the Jotunheim would allow me to use the balanced outputs from the Gungnir and go balanced out to the A23's XLR inputs. The whole setup would be running balanced rather than single-ended. Would most of you see that as reason enough to grab a Jotunheim?
> 
> I've never felt the Asgard 2 was underpowered for the headphones I use, the AudioQuest NightHawks, B&W P7's, HE-400 & 500's and my primary IEM's are the Westone W40's. None of my headphones are setup for running with a balanced amp, but adapters and new cables aren't hard to acquire.
> 
> ...


 
 I have the Jotunheim and the Asgard 2 as well as the Nighthawks and He-400 and He-560.  I felt the Jotunheim was cleaner sounding with more impact and better dynamics than the Asgard 2.  Not night and day but noticeable.  I also felt the He-560 really benefited from the balanced connection.  That was worth the upgrade alone.


----------



## Alchemist007

coltmrfire said:


> Haven't heard the Jot 4490 but I went from Bifrost4490 to Modibit. Modibit has way less "bloom" and "velvet lushness". It is far more natural and realistic sounding. More neutral with less grain and harshness. 4490 was actually excellent for a D/S DAC but it still suffered from D/S syndrome...that overdone bloomy velvet kind of sound with tizzy/slightly metallic highs. After seeing what multibit can do, I am never going back to D/S. For $250 Mimby is a no brainer.


 
 Also curious as how to how the internal 4490 compares to the Bifrost, that's $399 for only $99 in the Jot!


----------



## JLoud

alchemist007 said:


> coltmrfire said:
> 
> 
> > Haven't heard the Jot 4490 but I went from Bifrost4490 to Modibit. Modibit has way less "bloom" and "velvet lushness". It is far more natural and realistic sounding. More neutral with less grain and harshness. 4490 was actually excellent for a D/S DAC but it still suffered from D/S syndrome...that overdone bloomy velvet kind of sound with tizzy/slightly metallic highs. After seeing what multibit can do, I am never going back to D/S. For $250 Mimby is a no brainer.
> ...


 
 I compared the bifrost 4490 to the Jotunheim with dac.  SE it sounded basically the same.  I couldn't tell any real difference.  I would think I heard something, then switch back and couldn't hear it.  So very close.  Using balanced headphone connection I actually preferred the onboard dac over the Bifrost.  All comparisons were done with Focal Elear and Hifiman he-560.


----------



## franzdom

coltmrfire said:


> Haven't heard the Jot 4490 but I went from Bifrost4490 to Modibit. Modibit has way less "bloom" and "velvet lushness". It is far more natural and realistic sounding. More neutral with less grain and harshness. 4490 was actually excellent for a D/S DAC but it still suffered from D/S syndrome...that overdone bloomy velvet kind of sound with tizzy/slightly metallic highs. After seeing what multibit can do, I am never going back to D/S. For $250 Mimby is a no brainer.


 
  
 I agree completely and would like to extrapolate:
  
 For $ (Schiit's retail price) any of the four Multi-Bit DAC's are no brainers!


----------



## BarDash

coltmrfire said:


> Haven't heard the Jot 4490 but I went from Bifrost4490 to Modibit. Modibit has way less "bloom" and "velvet lushness". It is far more natural and realistic sounding. More neutral with less grain and harshness. 4490 was actually excellent for a D/S DAC but it still suffered from D/S syndrome...that overdone bloomy velvet kind of sound with tizzy/slightly metallic highs. After seeing what multibit can do, I am never going back to D/S. For $250 Mimby is a no brainer.



I was going to go with the Modi paired with the Jot until I found out it wasn't balanced, which both sets of my headphones are.
Any recommendations for a multibit balanced to go with the Jot?


----------



## cishida

bardash said:


> I was going to go with the Modi paired with the Jot until I found out it wasn't balanced, which both sets of my headphones are.
> Any recommendations for a multibit balanced to go with the Jot?


 
 The Jot SE inputs work just fine with the balanced headphone out. i.e. the amp is balanced in this config.
  
 If you want a balanced MB DAC then schiit will sell you a gumby or yggy.


----------



## Ancipital

alchemist007 said:


> Possible, though I'd get an external dac then too because I want a line out for both amps I'd then have. Question then becomes which dac to get


 
  
 Hmm, are you sure you want to rush into it? It wouldn't make sense to get anything less than a Modi Multibit if you're doing that. While these are delightful DACs for the money, that's another.. what.. $249 or so upfront? Heck, you might be tempted by something larger, with balanced outs, even, then it gets even more expensive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Not knowing what your finances are like, I was mostly concerned with the ability to not have to pay loads upfront. If you're cool with that, fill your boots!
  
 I'm not trying to discourage you, the Jot with a Schiitty multibit is a terrific thing. Even the Modi (which is excellent bang for buck) will do a very nice job indeed.


----------



## Alchemist007

ancipital said:


> Hmm, are you sure you want to rush into it? It wouldn't make sense to get anything less than a Modi Multibit if you're doing that. While these are delightful DACs for the money, that's another.. what.. $249 or so upfront? Heck, you might be tempted by something larger, with balanced outs, even, then it gets even more expensive
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I want a dac for my tube amp so it'd be nice if I could get something to use on that and the Jot. A $99 addition sounds very economical but I'm not sure about using a pre out to feed the tube amp.


----------



## Ancipital

alchemist007 said:


> I want a dac for my tube amp so it'd be nice if I could get something to use on that and the Jot. A $99 addition sounds very economical but I'm not sure about using a pre out to feed the tube amp.


 
  
 Yes, I get that, I was just thinking about being able to spread the cost out over a month or two- but if that's not an issue, don't sweat it.
  
 It sounds like you should just treat yourself to the best multibit DAC that seems reasonable to you. Since even the entry-level is surprisingly nice, it's more a case of how high you feel like going, based on your budget and the quality of your amps and transducers.


----------



## BarDash

cishida said:


> The Jot SE inputs work just fine with the balanced headphone out. i.e. the amp is balanced in this config.
> 
> If you want a balanced MB DAC then schiit will sell you a gumby or yggy.



Was thinking about the gumby... Would love the yggy but a little too rich for my blood right now.


----------



## Delayeed

bardash said:


> Was thinking about the gumby... Would love the yggy but a little too rich for my blood right now.


 
 Same here, but Mjolnir 2 before I can afford a gumby... Should be awesome and people are saying the Gumby is really, really close to the Yggy and for the price that sounds like a great value.


----------



## Vigrith

bardash said:


> Was thinking about the gumby... Would love the yggy but a little too rich for my blood right now.


 
  
 The fact the Modi MB isn't balanced doesn't mean you cannot use it running into the Jotunheim and then use its balanced outs to your headphones - doesn't matter if you use RCA or XLR to connect source to the Jotunheim, you will be able to use both its SE and balanced out no matter what. That said, some people believe they hear a difference between the balanced and SE outs on DACs that offer both (eg. Gungnir), but still, my point was it doesn't matter what your source is and how you hook it up to the amplifier, you'll still be able to use the balanced headphone jack with your balanced headphones.
  
 Of course, this is not to say you'd not be better off with a Gumby or Yggdrasil than the Modi MB - you just don't have to let it limit your choices is what I'm saying.


----------



## BarDash

vigrith said:


> The fact the Modi MB isn't balanced doesn't mean you cannot use it running into the Jotunheim and then use its balanced outs to your headphones - doesn't matter if you use RCA or XLR to connect source to the Jotunheim, you will be able to use both its SE and balanced out no matter what. That said, some people believe they hear a difference between the balanced and SE outs on DACs that offer both (eg. Gungnir), but still, my point was it doesn't matter what your source is and how you hook it up to the amplifier, you'll still be able to use the balanced headphone jack with your balanced headphones.
> 
> Of course, this is not to say you'd not be better off with a Gumby or Yggdrasil than the Modi MB - you just don't have to let it limit your choices is what I'm saying.




Thank you for the info... All the info I can get will help me make a more informed decision before I plop down large amounts of money.


----------



## lenroot77

Haven't read anyone pairing the Jot with an Audio Gd Dac 19... anyone out there with some impressions?


----------



## Allanmarcus

alchemist007 said:


> ancipital said:
> 
> 
> > Hmm, are you sure you want to rush into it? It wouldn't make sense to get anything less than a Modi Multibit if you're doing that. While these are delightful DACs for the money, that's another.. what.. $249 or so upfront? Heck, you might be tempted by something larger, with balanced outs, even, then it gets even more expensive :rolleyes:
> ...




The jot's DAC and preamp out will work perfectly fine for your scenario.


----------



## BarDash

A little off topic but since myself & others were comparing DACs I thought this might help. ( My apologies to whoever wrote it, let me know and i will give you credit) 


1. Best of D-S Dacs - an indistinct sound is barely audible in the recording that appears to not be musically related to the orchestral piece playing

2. Modi MB - someone in the violin section has flatulated.
3. Bifrost MB - more precisely it was someone in the Second Violin section.
4. Gungnir MB - the flatulent sound originates with the 2nd chair in the 2nd row of the 2nd violins
5. Yggdrasil - that 2nd chair, 2nd row, 2nd violinist has let loose with a Db when clearly the piece being played is in the key of G.

Edit: Written by atomicbob


----------



## StanD

bardash said:


> A little off topic but since myself & others were comparing DACs I thought this might help. ( My apologies to whoever wrote it, let me know and i will give you credit)
> 
> 
> 1. Best of D-S Dacs - an indistinct sound is barely audible in the recording that appears to not be musically related to the orchestral piece playing
> ...


 
 Gee, last year the DACs that most people were raving about were D/S some of which cost thousands of dollars and now they all suck. Perhaps there is a bit too much exaggeration with the MB thing.


----------



## BarDash

stand said:


> Gee, last year the DACs that most people were raving about were D/S some of which cost thousands of dollars and now they all suck. Perhaps there is a bit too much exaggeration with the MB thing.



I take it all with the proverbial grain of salt...


----------



## lenroot77

bardash said:


> I take it all with the proverbial grain of salt...




For me personally all the D/S DAC's I've purchased were "cheap" 100-200 dollars ... the MB DAC's I've owned have been over 500 dollars so they should essentially sound better. I do often wonder what a "costly/well implemented" D/S Dac would sound like... but I like what I have so there's no reason to spend money on one. 

I've also read here on headfi of members who do not hear much difference in MB DAC's... or say people who prefer the 4490 Bifrost over the bimby. We all hear differently though. 

All that said yes it's the "hot thing" these days...


----------



## NikonGuy

..


----------



## BarDash

lenroot77 said:


> For me personally all the D/S DAC's I've purchased were "cheap" 100-200 dollars ... the MB DAC's I've owned have been over 500 dollars so they should essentially sound better. I do often wonder what a "costly/well implemented" D/S Dac would sound like... but I like what I have so there's no reason to spend money on one.
> 
> I've also read here on headfi of members who do not hear much difference in MB DAC's... or say people who prefer the 4490 Bifrost over the bimby. We all hear differently though.
> 
> All that said yes it's the "hot thing" these days...




I'm always weary of the "hot thing" but the Gumby's been out awhile and it's "tried and true", so hopeully it'll be an end game DAC for me after I save up my pennies. (until something better comes along of course )


----------



## lenroot77

bardash said:


> I'm always weary of the "hot thing" but the Gumby's been out awhile and it's "tried and true", so hopeully it'll be an end game DAC for me after I save up my pennies. (until something better comes along of course )




I'm by no means knocking MB Dacs or Schiit products... there's a reason they are hot right now.... they're quality products!


----------



## koven

bardash said:


> A little off topic but since myself & others were comparing DACs I thought this might help. ( My apologies to whoever wrote it, let me know and i will give you credit)
> 
> 
> 1. Best of D-S Dacs - an indistinct sound is barely audible in the recording that appears to not be musically related to the orchestral piece playing
> ...


 
  
 my 2cents is that the modi MB is currently at/near the apex of DAC value, as in bang for buck. id love to see someone consistently distinguish a modi MB vs yggy in a blind ABX test, i'd bet money that they cant. ive been through the DAC rabbit hole culminating in a PerfectWave MKII and my opinion these days is that the diminishing returns on DACs are massive, akin to cables. if i had 10k to upgrade my equipment right now, id spend 4k on the utopia, 6k on a WA5, and keep the modi MB.


----------



## BarDash

koven said:


> my 2cents is that the modi MB is currently at/near the apex of DAC value, as in bang for buck. id love to see someone consistently distinguish a modi MB vs yggy in a blind ABX test, i'd bet money that they cant. ive been through the DAC rabbit hole culminating in a PerfectWave MKII and my opinion these days is that the diminishing returns on DACs are massive, akin to cables. if i had 10k to upgrade my equipment right now, id spend 4k on the utopia, 6k on a WA5, and keep the modi MB.




I think that'd be an interesting thread: What people would choose if given 10k., I like your choices but a little early for me to be sold on the Utopia...


----------



## XERO1

koven said:


> my 2cents is that the modi MB is currently at/near the apex of DAC value, as in bang for buck. id love to see someone consistently distinguish a modi MB vs yggy in a blind ABX test, i'd bet money that they cant. ive been through the DAC rabbit hole culminating in a PerfectWave MKII and my opinion these days is that the diminishing returns on DACs are massive, akin to cables.


 
  
 +1


----------



## earnmyturns

maxh22 said:


> Thank you!
> 
> If the Jot handles piano pieces better than Asgard than most likely it is the more transparent amp. On some amps/dacs it can be hard to keep track of the piano because of either it's higher noise floor and or RF noise. The noise makes it hard to focus on individual instruments or singers.


 
 My impression with the Asgard 2 is that some louder mid-to-high pitch passages had a kind of "glare" as if the amp was somewhat losing full control of the headphone drivers (just trying to describe what I heard, no idea about the actual mechanism). No such problem with the Jotunheim.


----------



## franzdom

koven said:


> my 2cents is that the modi MB is currently at/near the apex of DAC value, as in bang for buck. id love to see someone consistently distinguish a modi MB vs yggy in a blind ABX test, i'd bet money that they cant. ive been through the DAC rabbit hole culminating in a PerfectWave MKII and my opinion these days is that the diminishing returns on DACs are massive, akin to cables. if i had 10k to upgrade my equipment right now, id spend 4k on the utopia, 6k on a WA5, and keep the modi MB.


 
  
 I agree with the first point, certainly Modi MB is tops in bang for buck. The second point is interesting, I am sure some people can hear the difference, I wonder what percentage of Head-Fi members could?
  
 I wonder what percentage of Multi-Bit owners would pay $100 to trade their DAC for Yggy?


----------



## Alchemist007

allanmarcus said:


> The jot's DAC and preamp out will work perfectly fine for your scenario.


 

 Ok, I was under the impression using multiple amps like that would introduce distortion.


----------



## earnmyturns

[IGNORE, content repeated later because of a browser glitch while editing.]


----------



## acguitar84

koven said:


> my 2cents is that the modi MB is currently at/near the apex of DAC value, as in bang for buck. id love to see someone consistently distinguish a modi MB vs yggy in a blind ABX test, i'd bet money that they cant. ive been through the DAC rabbit hole culminating in a PerfectWave MKII and my opinion these days is that the diminishing returns on DACs are massive, akin to cables. if i had 10k to upgrade my equipment right now, id spend 4k on the utopia, 6k on a WA5, and keep the modi MB.




I'd get the utopia, but instead of the wa5, keep the Jotunheim and my modi multibit and put the 6k in savings.


----------



## Allanmarcus

alchemist007 said:


> allanmarcus said:
> 
> 
> > The jot's DAC and preamp out will work perfectly fine for your scenario.
> ...




You aren't double amping in this situation. The Jot has pre outs, which means the signal exits before it is amped.


----------



## Alchemist007

allanmarcus said:


> You aren't double amping in this situation. The Jot has pre outs, which means the signal exits before it is amped.


 

 Ok, so the only difference between this and line out is needing to keep the Jot turned on to use the pre out or is there any other difference?


----------



## Allanmarcus

alchemist007 said:


> allanmarcus said:
> 
> 
> > You aren't double amping in this situation. The Jot has pre outs, which means the signal exits before it is amped.
> ...


 

 and adjust the volume on the jot. Easiest is to set the volume on the amp high and use the Jot's volume.


----------



## Alchemist007

Thanks, I was apparently misinformed. Is there any reason to prefer a line out at all in that case?


----------



## earnmyturns

sheldaze said:


> It can be very bright, depending on the source, music, headphone. Think of the Jodie as more literal. It is not going to hold back. If the music screeches, you're going to hear the screech.


 
 Exactly. The Jodie's fuller rendering of low frequencies in jazz (double bass, kick drum, low piano keys) through my Ether C Flows makes it sound (to my ears) a bit warmer than the Asgard 2, especially balanced. In the midrange, I always felt that the Asgard 2 struggled a bit with my headphones (Alpha Primes and now Ether C Flows) in loud piano passages, with a somewhat unnatural mix of harmonics in a kind of "bloom" over the fundamental and main harmonics. The Jodie does it better, getting close to what I get on my speaker system. On higher frequencies (those I can hear, anyway, I'm no spring chicken), I find the two amps pretty similar, with a slight edge for the Jodie in attack speed. Both are a bit more forward than my speaker amp (class D Bel Canto C7R), which is polite to a fault.


----------



## Argo Duck

bardash said:


> A little off topic but since myself & others were comparing DACs I thought this might help. ( My apologies to whoever wrote it, let me know and i will give you credit)
> 
> 
> 1. Best of D-S Dacs - an indistinct sound is barely audible in the recording that appears to not be musically related to the orchestral piece playing
> ...




Attribution for the post quoted belongs to one atomicbob, who has measured all schiit's MB dacs in his audio lab. Apparently, he knows a bit about measuring dacs. You should be able to find the threads round here without much trouble.

Atomicbob was being "terse" and "ribald" in his descriptions, ie I suppose he was poking fun at d/s a bit. All the same, he seems seriously impressed by what schiit have achieved with their MB tech.


----------



## BarDash

argo duck said:


> Attribution for the post quoted belongs to one atomicbob, who has measured all schiit's MB dacs in his audio lab. Apparently, he knows a bit about measuring dacs. You should be able to find the threads round here without much trouble.
> 
> Atomicbob was being "terse" and "ribald" in his descriptions, ie I suppose he was poking fun at d/s a bit. All the same, he seems seriously impressed by what schiit have achieved with their MB tech.


 

 Thank you, PM'd him & thanked him...


----------



## Baldr

stand said:


> Gee, last year the DACs that most people were raving about were D/S some of which cost thousands of dollars and now they all suck. Perhaps there is a bit too much exaggeration with the MB thing.


 

 MB stuff could be prejudicial due to Atomic Bob's measurements as published on this forum.
  
 Also, I have always been on record re economic advantage of ds.


----------



## Allanmarcus

alchemist007 said:


> Thanks, I was apparently misinformed. Is there any reason to prefer a line out at all in that case?


 

 With line out there is only volume pot to adjust, so a more direct signal path.


----------



## StanD

baldr said:


> MB stuff could be prejudicial due to Atomic Bob's measurements as published on this forum.
> 
> Also, I have always been on record re economic advantage of ds.


 
 I wonder at what point, how much do measurements really mean since technology may have eclipsed our abilities to perceive. How much is _amplified_ by the excitement of something new. It's nice that Schiit offers new stuff at non wallet busting prices.


----------



## noro

HD650 or HD600 with Jotunheim? Which do you prefer and why?


----------



## Ancipital

nikonguy said:


> Hi, As you know I am looking at the Jot vs the Lyr, what gains are you finding moving from the Magni 2U to the Jot with your HD650's?
> 
> Are you using balanced or SE and did you consider the Lyr?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


 
  
 The gains were.. surprising, frankly. Everything is so much snappier, clearer, more detailed. Would I be able to tell the difference blind, volume matched? A resounding "yes".
  
 I know that audiophools like like claim that every change (even ones with only an imaginary effect) is "night and day", so that does devalue the currency a bit. However, it's a really noticeable kick up the arse for the HD650. Small sounds way down in the mix are not just audible, but have detail and attack. It's a really nice combo. I was having slight buyer's remorse for jumping on the Jotenheim so fast, but the results shut me up.
  
 I didn't consider the Lyr, even though it has a great reputation. I was interested in the Jotenheim because I have been after a balanced SS amp- but wasn't thrilled with my options. Maybe some day I shall get a tube amp as a luxury second amp, but I really wanted a reliable SS amp that didn't need babying. Having to regard bits of my amp as consumables, and the endless circle jerk "tube rolling" threads repel me a bit- that's my peculiarity, with which I am completely comfortable. 
  
 The thing is, a lot of the amps which are famously good matches with the HD650 are tube amps (is it a current thing?), so it was a quandry. However, the Jotenheim is such a no-brainer good match at a decent price that it seemed rude not to.
  
 In answer to your other questions, I am using a Modi Multibit (or sometimes a Chord Mojo) SE into the Jotenheim, and then the HD650 balanced out of it. I have a second standard HD650 cable reterminated to XLR, which I was able to compare to the standard HD650 cable. The SE out of the Jotenheim is really very good, so they're close, but I did hear some very slight detail improvement with the balanced cable. It was mostly in the attack of sounds, subtle but pleasing.
  
 The best example, which I keep using, is Bowie's "Word On A Wing".. On the (surprisingly nice for the price/size) Magni 2U in the HD650, the xylophones low in the mix are fairly hard to hear. On the Jotenheim with the SE out, they're much more audible and have a pleasant musical sound. On the Jotenheim with the balanced out, they are clear and musical, but you can also hear the percussive attack at the start of the note. It's that sort of micro-detail that is sometimes called "plankton" on Another Site Which Shall Not Be Mentioned.
  
 I'm sure the Lyr will sound badass too- if that's how your tastes run. I was drawn to the Jotenheim partly because I wanted to see what running my headphones balanced would sound like. It has additional  advantages- I have a pair of Adam Audio A5, that I can throw on the back balanced, too. I'm rejigging things a bit, and this is a nice option to have.
  
 If you want the reliability (hopefully! it's a bit early) and flexibility of the SS balanced Jotenheim, you won't regret it as a pairing for your HD650, for sure. It's stupidly good. However, if you secretly want to be a little tubey sometimes, the Lyr will probably make you happy. You probably can't make a bad decision in this situation. Maybe it's time for you to make a pro/con list of each to compare what they bring to your specific use cases?
  
 I hope that helps a bit. I feel like I am retreading a lot of what I said in my quick review of the Jotenheim:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/schiit-audio-jotunheim/reviews/16839
  
 There may be some other useful tidbits there, possibly, though I think I have just repeated the useful points


----------



## NikonGuy

..


----------



## Floss99

nikonguy said:


> Thanks for taking the time to reply, I don't really want the hassle of tube rolling so SS is the best bet for me I think.
> 
> Anyway Jotunheim has now been ordered!


 
 Keep us posted on your impressions! I have the modi multibit coming tomorrow which will be paired with the magni 2 uber (at least till I can justify buying the jot 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## Ancipital

nikonguy said:


> Thanks for taking the time to reply, I don't really want the hassle of tube rolling so SS is the best bet for me I think.
> 
> Anyway Jotunheim has now been ordered!


 
  
 You're welcome- they were fair questions 
  
 That said, I think the Lyr is supposed to be just fine with its stock tubes, but yes, I hear you on the hassle- and fretting about not leaving your amp on all day! Anyway, I hope you enjoy your Jot- it's a beast at that price point.


----------



## NikonGuy

..


----------



## Ancipital

nikonguy said:


> Will do, might have a long wait as the bloody UK EU supplier has no stock of the cardless Jot!


 
  
 I ordered mine direct from Schiit themselves (I'm also in the UK) for this exact reason. I had mine before Electromod even knew when they'd be getting any, let alone had received them. Electromod are really friendly and helpful, but they don't have great stock availability.
  
 The courier used seems to have no issues with customs, if that helps- it took 2-3 days from shipping until mine arrived.


----------



## NikonGuy

..


----------



## Ancipital

nikonguy said:


> What delivery service did you use?


 
  
 I used FedEx International Priority. The total for the order, including the shipping, was £348.00 at paypal exchage rates, so it worked out cheaper as well as quicker.


----------



## NikonGuy

..


----------



## acguitar84

I just want to post about the Jotunheim. When it first came out on that Saturday back in late August was it, I was at first, having a reaction like, ehh...not even interested. Then I started thinking about it, and reading about it, now I own 3 of them, lol. One is driving my work computer, one my downstairs computer and one is on my headphone rig (I've put away my Wa7 and don't know what to do with it now).
  
 These are just amazing devices. Now, being sort of a newbie, at least as far as equipment is concerned, I haven't heard the true high end stuff (yet). I haven't heard Yggdrasil or Gumby, or Ragnarok, nor other companies over 2000 dollar flagship amps or Dacs. But I'm sitting down here in my downstairs office listening to tunes with the Jotunheim and its built in DAC, and REALLY enjoying it. A 399 dollar amp and a 100 dollar dac. It's an incredible value. And very enjoyable. It's so cool too, that I could get gumby or yggy and plug it in with balanced cords. Or get a balanced headphone and plug it in to jotunheim too. I like how it makes my speaker systems sound so much better. I put the mackie mixers away too, plugged the Jotunheim directly into my powered mackie speakers with balanced cords. 
  
 While I'm pretty sure better sound can be had cracking the wallet (a lot), this Jotunheim is very very enjoyable on it's own.


----------



## StanD

I wonder what Schiit means by:
 "_In the future, you’ll be able to easily upgrade to a different module—maybe even something beyond a DAC or phono preamp_."
 What kind of new module are they cooking up?


----------



## acguitar84

stand said:


> I wonder what Schiit means by:
> "_In the future, you’ll be able to easily upgrade to a different module—maybe even something beyond a DAC or phono preamp_."
> What kind of new module are they cooking up?


 
 I know huh? Maybe a warp drive? Or a beer fridge? lol. It is fun to think about! Who knows what tech will come out in the future. It's a good time to be a music fan though, lots of great equipment out there today.


----------



## StanD

acguitar84 said:


> I know huh? Maybe a warp drive? Or a beer fridge? lol. It is fun to think about! Who knows what tech will come out in the future. It's a good time to be a music fan though, lots of great equipment out there today.


 
 Perhaps a USB controlled Pez Dispenser.


----------



## Vigrith

ancipital said:


> I used FedEx International Priority. The total for the order, including the shipping, was £348.00 at paypal exchage rates, so it worked out cheaper as well as quicker.


 
  
 Oh really? Did you not get rammed sideways by VAT? It's a bit finnicky how that works right now in the UK I suppose but still.


----------



## Allanmarcus

stand said:


> acguitar84 said:
> 
> 
> > I know huh? Maybe a warp drive? Or a beer fridge? lol. It is fun to think about! Who knows what tech will come out in the future. It's a good time to be a music fan though, lots of great equipment out there today.
> ...


 

 I agree. This device needs a digital upgrade!
  
 http://www.instructables.com/id/Mil-Spec-PEZ-Dispenser/


----------



## StanD

I got it. A Bluetooth power module so you can turn off the power from an app on your smartphone. Can't turn it on though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Comes with a bonus LED dimmer that can also be controlled from your smartphone.


----------



## Alchemist007

stand said:


> I wonder what Schiit means by:
> "_In the future, you’ll be able to easily upgrade to a different module—maybe even something beyond a DAC or phono preamp_."
> What kind of new module are they cooking up?


 
 I want to say MB DAC but they did say "beyond"


----------



## Starcruncher

acguitar84 said:


> I just want to post about the Jotunheim. When it first came out on that Saturday back in late August was it, I was at first, having a reaction like, ehh...not even interested. Then I started thinking about it, and reading about it, now I own 3 of them, lol. One is driving my work computer, one my downstairs computer and one is on my headphone rig (I've put away my Wa7 and don't know what to do with it now).
> 
> These are just amazing devices. Now, being sort of a newbie, at least as far as equipment is concerned, I haven't heard the true high end stuff (yet). I haven't heard Yggdrasil or Gumby, or Ragnarok, nor other companies over 2000 dollar flagship amps or Dacs. But I'm sitting down here in my downstairs office listening to tunes with the Jotunheim and its built in DAC, and REALLY enjoying it. A 399 dollar amp and a 100 dollar dac. It's an incredible value. And very enjoyable. It's so cool too, that I could get gumby or yggy and plug it in with balanced cords. Or get a balanced headphone and plug it in to jotunheim too. I like how it makes my speaker systems sound so much better. I put the mackie mixers away too, plugged the Jotunheim directly into my powered mackie speakers with balanced cords.
> 
> While I'm pretty sure better sound can be had cracking the wallet (a lot), this Jotunheim is very very enjoyable on it's own.


 
  
 So you like this amp?  
  
 I am very curious to know how you feel it pairs with your Grado's. If you did not have your avatar of the PS1000's, I would have never thought to ask. But you do and I just received a set of PS1000's and want a new amp. What are your thoughts?


----------



## tekkster

Is optical digital DAC not a popular option?

 I tried
   jriver/imac->usb->mojo->se->jot,  and then tried
   jriver/imac->optical->mojo->se->jot, 
  
 and couldn't tell much of a difference....I sorta can when i jumping back and forth over and over and over again, but it could be my imagination, and no way I'd be able to call it in a blind test.  
  
 Probably just bad hearing.

 Now, I can tell a difference between
    jriver/imac->usb mojo se jot
    jriver/imac->usb jot
  
 but the usb->jot was just fine.

 Given the above, from my chair, it'd sure be nice if schiit released an optical audio input dac module.  
  
 Probably just me, huh?


----------



## Allanmarcus

tekkster said:


> Is optical digital DAC not a popular option?
> 
> I tried
> jriver/imac->usb->mojo->se->jot,  and then tried
> ...


 

 USB is the most popular for computer audio, but many audiophiles will happily discuss the benefits of coax vs toslink vs usb. It's pretty much a religious war in audiophilia. I started a thread about "more bass with Toslink" here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/819447/can-using-toslink-have-more-bass-than-usb


----------



## franzdom

I dunno about the bass but I get more cowbell with S/PDIF


----------



## StanD

How about a USB/TOS DAC module with a DSP with additional aux analog inputs. The DSP could do a nice Parametric EQ. The problem is one would want the DSP to be before the DAC but to use analog inputs that would require an ADC (big bucks and not desirable for this use) so maybe that feature might not fly.


----------



## Ancipital

vigrith said:


> Oh really? Did you not get rammed sideways by VAT? It's a bit finnicky how that works right now in the UK I suppose but still.


 
  
 Not _yet_. I've bought a couple of bits from the Schiitmeisters direct now, as Electromod are as spotty as hell with stock- and FedEx have yet to demand money with menaces. If they get around to it, I will, of course, with good grace.


----------



## rsnblmn

acguitar84 said:


> I just want to post about the Jotunheim. When it first came out on that Saturday back in late August was it, I was at first, having a reaction like, ehh...not even interested. Then I started thinking about it, and reading about it, now I own 3 of them, lol. One is driving my work computer, one my downstairs computer and one is on my headphone rig (I've put away my Wa7 and don't know what to do with it now).
> 
> These are just amazing devices. Now, being sort of a newbie, at least as far as equipment is concerned, I haven't heard the true high end stuff (yet). I haven't heard Yggdrasil or Gumby, or Ragnarok, nor other companies over 2000 dollar flagship amps or Dacs. But I'm sitting down here in my downstairs office listening to tunes with the Jotunheim and its built in DAC, and REALLY enjoying it. A 399 dollar amp and a 100 dollar dac. It's an incredible value. And very enjoyable. It's so cool too, that I could get gumby or yggy and plug it in with balanced cords. Or get a balanced headphone and plug it in to jotunheim too. I like how it makes my speaker systems sound so much better. I put the mackie mixers away too, plugged the Jotunheim directly into my powered mackie speakers with balanced cords.
> 
> While I'm pretty sure better sound can be had cracking the wallet (a lot), this Jotunheim is very very enjoyable on it's own.


 
  
 Couldn't agree more. I am also extremely pleased with the performance of the Jot.
  
 IMO, it's so good that there's really no need to include "for the price" when you describe its merits. It's just plain good.


----------



## Vigrith

ancipital said:


> Not _yet_. I've bought a couple of bits from the Schiitmeisters direct now, as Electromod are as spotty as hell with stock- and FedEx have yet to demand money with menaces. If they get around to it, I will, of course, with good grace.


 
  
 That's interesting, I've never ordered directly from Schiit because Sonority in the Netherlands tends to have stock fairly reliably, way more than Electromod, which tbh makes sense since they supply to all of EU rather than just the 1 country - I may order something small from Schiit directly at some point like a Wyrd to see if I dodge VAT as well, if I do then it may be worthwhile for further purchases rather than having to wait for Sonority to get stock (takes them like a week or two usually when Schiit launches a new product).


----------



## maxh22

tekkster said:


> Is optical digital DAC not a popular option?
> 
> 
> I tried
> ...




I recently did a long test with a high end optical cable (Lifeatec) and Mojo. Using my gaming pc as an optical source, it sounded much worse than through micro usb out of my phone.

When I used the Oppo bdp 105 as a source, the sound quality improvement was very significant. In fact I would bet I could tell them apart in a blind test. 

The entire sound was a lot clearer and smoother. The soundstage expanded and musicality was brought to another level. So in other words, it stirred up my emotions.

Try a better optical source. It will be easier to tell the difference. It will also obviously depend on the optical cable used .


----------



## acguitar84

starcruncher said:


> So you like this amp?
> 
> I am very curious to know how you feel it pairs with your Grado's. If you did not have your avatar of the PS1000's, I would have never thought to ask. But you do and I just received a set of PS1000's and want a new amp. What are your thoughts?


 
 I think it pairs nicely with the PS1000e. (I have the PS1000e rather than the PS1000, I don't know if that makes much of a difference though). I like the pairing better than the Wa7 Fireflies. There seems to be more detail, instruments sound more like themselves. It's like fine tuning a picture or something maybe? I was listening to James Taylor's Fire and Rain the other night and marveling at the clarity of all the instruments (strings especially). I should try some of my other headphones with the Jortunheim too, and see how they compare (Grado Rs1i and Denon HD 2000). I am saving my pennies now for one of the Focal Utopia, with my luck once I have the cash together they'll be hard to find. *fingers crossed*
  
 That said though, I've been having some nice enjoyable night time listening sessions with the PS1000e. I wish I had the Utopia's and maybe the HD800 (The new version) to compare. When I'm listening at night now, I don't want to take them off and go to sleep, other than they can be somewhat uncomfortable for long listening sessions. Also, I'm using the mimby as a DAC on the headphone rig, even though I really like the built in dac on the Jotunheim.


----------



## Allanmarcus

maxh22 said:


> tekkster said:
> 
> 
> > Is optical digital DAC not a popular option?
> ...


 

 Sorry, but this is very confusing.
  
 You are saying an high end optical cable used with your gaming PC sound worse than Micro USB out of your phone.
  
 You then use your Oppo, but don't say which cable type you used. Did the Oppo sound better with both USB and Optical? Better than what?
  
 Did you test the optical on the oppo against the USB on the oppo? Sam of the gaming PC, its optical vs its USB.
  
 You cannot make any general statement about the quality of the ports comparing the optical on the PC vs the optical on the oppo. There are too many other factors, although you could reduce those factors.


----------



## Starcruncher

acguitar84 said:


> I think it pairs nicely with the PS1000e. (I have the PS1000e rather than the PS1000, I don't know if that makes much of a difference though). I like the pairing better than the Wa7 Fireflies. There seems to be more detail, instruments sound more like themselves. It's like fine tuning a picture or something maybe? I was listening to James Taylor's Fire and Rain the other night and marveling at the clarity of all the instruments (strings especially). I should try some of my other headphones with the Jortunheim too, and see how they compare (Grado Rs1i and Denon HD 2000). I am saving my pennies now for one of the Focal Utopia, with my luck once I have the cash together they'll be hard to find. *fingers crossed*
> 
> That said though, I've been having some nice enjoyable night time listening sessions with the PS1000e. I wish I had the Utopia's and maybe the HD800 (The new version) to compare. When I'm listening at night now, I don't want to take them off and go to sleep, other than they can be somewhat uncomfortable for long listening sessions. Also, I'm using the mimby as a DAC on the headphone rig, even though I really like the built in dac on the Jotunheim.




Thanks for your thoughts. +1 point for the Jot. I don't know what the differences between PS1000 and PS1000e are, but it's good to hear about your experience. These Grados do not seem to be so common.


----------



## maxh22

allanmarcus said:


> Sorry, but this is very confusing.
> 
> You are saying an high end optical cable used with your gaming PC sound worse than Micro USB out of your phone.
> 
> ...




Let me clarify..

I tested Mojo with a laptop > USB Regen >Intona USB > Synergistic Research's USB Active SE> Stock Chord Microusb cable> RCA

Then I tested Mojo through Optical.

Oppo BDP 105>Lifeatec> RCA.

The Mojo when fed with a quality optical source and quality optical cable outperformed the clean usb source.

The USB source can be improved by upgrading the stock chord micro usb cable to something better. The gap would be signifcantly smaller.


----------



## NikonGuy

..


----------



## Vigrith

nikonguy said:


> FedEx are usually hot on VAT, Duty and their "Admin" charge, it will depend on how Schiit declare the unit on the paperwork.
> 
> Also don't ignore the customs demand letter if you get one, they now always sell the debt to a debt collection agency if you don't pay them directly.


 
  
 Yea I actually reside in Portugal rather than the UK and our customs will never release a package without duties (if due) being paid upfront, either at the customs dispatch location or at your home when they come to deliver it - I've not ordered from FedEx in years though and as you said I don't know how the paperwork's declared hence I'm tempted to try.
  
 It's strange that they send you a demand letter for customs there, it's cool considering it probably means you don't need to wait like 1 month (or more) than we do to get our packages released by dispatch.


----------



## Ancipital

vigrith said:


> That's interesting, I've never ordered directly from Schiit because Sonority in the Netherlands tends to have stock fairly reliably, way more than Electromod, which tbh makes sense since they supply to all of EU rather than just the 1 country - I may order something small from Schiit directly at some point like a Wyrd to see if I dodge VAT as well, if I do then it may be worthwhile for further purchases rather than having to wait for Sonority to get stock (takes them like a week or two usually when Schiit launches a new product).


 
  
 I did look at them for something at one point (a Magni 2U, I think), but they didn't have any with the UK wall wart, annoyingly.


----------



## Baldr

stand said:


> I wonder at what point, how much do measurements really mean since technology may have eclipsed our abilities to perceive. How much is _amplified_ by the excitement of something new. It's nice that Schiit offers new stuff at non wallet busting prices.


 

 It seems to me that measurements are a proper engineering goal to pursue.   I cannot speak for anyone's sonic perception, other than my own; for that reason, I make no sonic warranty.  I have not been shy about publishing my own preferences, however.  We are definitely NOT in the business of offering new products only for the sake of being new.  It is an ongoing learning process for us as well.


----------



## ColtMrFire

I always feel like measurements tell half the story. We're not robots. Clearly there is some kind of biological component to audio which can't be captured on a graph. And that components can have different flavors you can't necessarily capture with measurements, or at least do not fully get captured by measurements.


----------



## Allanmarcus

maxh22 said:


> allanmarcus said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry, but this is very confusing.
> ...


 
  
 Maybe you should try the USB straight through, or only through one of those de-crapifiers.


----------



## Delayeed

Yeah there is no way to measure lets say image placement, dynamics or something as subjective as emotionality. That being said I like to see low THD and SNR levels as those things can affect the treble in particular and make it sound a bit harsh. I love the fact that Schiit has nothing to hide in this regard, I mean they have the pictures of the actual PCBs on their product pages which is really cool and gives a sense of confidence.


----------



## tekkster

Thanks for all the responses.  I'll check out that other thread too.
  
 But, in any case....I get the sense that there isn't much call for an optical audio input DAC module option for anyone who would prefer that over the usb input DAC module.

 Bummer, hahaha

 Oh well.

 c'est la vie.


----------



## poocaso

FYI, just heard back from Schiit that the Jotunheim is temporarily out of stock and they should be shipping out again by the end of next week.


----------



## ColtMrFire

poocaso said:


> FYI, just heard back from Schiit that the Jotunheim is temporarily out of stock and they should be shipping out again by the end of next week.




Funny because I got an email from Schiit last night saying mine should ship today or tomorrow...


----------



## NikonGuy

..


----------



## ColtMrFire

If this is true they really need to update the Jotunheim schiit page as it is still quoting in stock with 1-3 day shipping.


----------



## poocaso

Not sure which configuration you ordered, but my order was for amp only. I ordered on the 9/15 and hadn't received any notifications other than the original order confirmation, so I followed up by email earlier today.


----------



## poocaso

Seeing that the webpage was still quoting 1-3 business days was part of what motivated me to contact them. I was a bit surprised that the webpage hasn't been updated even after getting that reply from Schiit.


----------



## ColtMrFire

poocaso said:


> Not sure which configuration you ordered, but my order was for amp only. I ordered on the 9/15 and hadn't received any notifications other than the original order confirmation, so I followed up by email earlier today.




I ordered amp only on the 16th, no shipping confirmation for a few days so I emailed them yesterday. That night they told me a day or two it would ship out. Not sure what's going on so I just sent a followup email.


----------



## pctazhp

coltmrfire said:


> I always feel like measurements tell half the story. We're not robots. Clearly there is some kind of *biological component to audio *which can't be captured on a graph. And that components can have different flavors you can't necessarily capture with measurements, or at least do not fully get captured by measurements.


 
 What in the world are you talking about??? Little microbes that run around inside the amp????


----------



## ColtMrFire

I don't mind waiting, but I just sold my Valhalla 2, so it would be a bummer to be without an amp for that long. I did this based on the "in stock, 1-3 day shipping" as listed on the schiit site.


----------



## StanD

baldr said:


> It seems to me that measurements are a proper engineering goal to pursue.   I cannot speak for anyone's sonic perception, other than my own; for that reason, I make no sonic warranty.  I have not been shy about publishing my own preferences, however.  We are definitely NOT in the business of offering new products only for the sake of being new.  It is an ongoing learning process for us as well.


 
 I'm an EE and fully understand the importance of measurements as part of the design process or QA. IMO far too many people think that they can hear things beyond human limitations, e.g., above 20 kHz, incredibly low distortion levels, etc. and then it takes on a life of its own on the forums.
 I never said the Schiit offered new products for the sake of being new, I always thought and said that Schiit offered solid new products at affordable prices in their categories. This is evidenced by the number of Schiit's products that I own.


----------



## bobbyg1983

tekkster said:


> Thanks for all the responses.  I'll check out that other thread too.
> 
> But, in any case....I get the sense that there isn't much call for an optical audio input DAC module option for anyone who would prefer that over the usb input DAC module.
> 
> ...




Perhaps for PC listening where there's a choice between optical and USB, but plenty of usage scenarios where USB isn't an option (CD players, Chromecast, game consoles, etc) and an optical input would be nice. Obvious response is get Modi, etc, but would be nice to have the option for all-in-one Joti solution with optical.


----------



## NikonGuy

..


----------



## Cet1

Would love an optical input also - as a back-up if nothing else!!


----------



## franzdom

cet1 said:


> Would love an optical input also - as a back-up if nothing else!!


 
  
 Jason had said it wasn't possible and not going to happen IIRC.


----------



## Baldr

nikonguy said:


> Instead of posting waffle, go and see your shipping department and sort your Schiit out!


 

 1.  If you do not like my waffle, you definitely do not have to read it.
 2.  It is true that I generally am quite grateful for all business and prefer that our customers are happy.  Some however, are never capable of enjoying anything close. Is that you?
 3.  No matter who you are, you have no more license to tell me What to do, any more than I do to you.
  
 orders@schiit.com is your friend.  Even though we are off on the wrong foot, we still could be.


----------



## Baldr

stand said:


> I'm an EE and fully understand the importance of measurements as part of the design process or QA. IMO far too many people think that they can hear things beyond human limitations, e.g., above 20 kHz, incredibly low distortion levels, etc. and then it takes on a life of its own on the forums.
> I never said the Schiit offered new products for the sake of being new, I always thought and said that Schiit offered solid new products at affordable prices in their categories. This is evidenced by the number of Schiit's products that I own.


 

 I know, Stan........
 I guess we just have to agree to agree.  Always nice to hear from you!
  
 Cordially,
 MM


----------



## Ancipital

Eeek, looks like the main demand spike for the Jot has kicked in and they're having trouble getting them out of the door fast enough. Those of us who threw caution to the wind and jumped in with both feet before waiting for reviews beat the rush, I suppose.


----------



## ColtMrFire

I also just received an email that Jot is out of stock and won't be shipping until end of next week but this is apparently just as estimate. It could take even longer.

I sent a pleasant but firm reply email that they should work toward keeping their website updated, because as I said, while I don't mind waiting (it sucks but I can deal), people make decisions based on the availability of their products. The site STILL says the Jot is available and shipping in 1-3 days, as it did when I ordered it. I've never had a problem of this nature before, so I went ahead and placed an order and sold my Valhalla 2 confident that I would receive Jot by the time I'd shipped Val2 out to its new owner. Now I am without an amp until God knows when new Jots arrive.

Schiit happens, mix ups are part of life, its all good. But maybe, just MAYBE keeping the website updated about availability will prevent situations like this in the future. Not everyone is going to be as level headed about this.

Carry on.


----------



## madwolfa

I recognize this as a "growing pains" situation. I'm sure Jason and Co will handle this right.


----------



## KLJTech

Some people would even keep it to themselves that they were inconvenienced (God forbid) rather than posting here that they sent "a pleasant but firm email" to the company.


----------



## BarDash

In the limited contact I've had with Schiit including purchasing the Jot and asking for a refund on a product I changed my mind on, I must say my customer service was fast and attentive as well as excellent!


----------



## NikonGuy

..


----------



## ColtMrFire

nikonguy said:


> Had the same email, they did not even apologize...




I'm not so much interested in empty company apologies. They don't mean anything to me because a true apology is making sure it doesn't happen in the first place and in the future. I really like Schiit and admire their business model but in the end they're just a company like the rest, and they have a lot of plates spinning and a few unhappy customers doesn't really mean much when the vast majority are satisfied. One missed spot on a squeaky clean floor isnt a concern. It sucks if you are the missed spot, but such is life. I try to be philosophical these days and take it in stride. But I'm also "too old for this schiit" and don't care about empty customer service apologies. Just get it done.


----------



## pdferguson

tekkster said:


> But, in any case....I get the sense that there isn't much call for an optical audio input DAC module option for anyone who would prefer that over the usb input DAC module.


 
  
 The lack of optical and/or RCA DAC inputs is one of the reasons I haven't pulled the trigger on a Jotunheim yet, along with two other features I consider important: (1) muting the pre-out when headphones are plugged in, and (2) lack of line-out/pre-out switch. My Parasound Zdac v.2 has all these features, along with separate volume controls for the headphones and pre-out (nice, but not as important as other missing features).


----------



## Vigrith

coltmrfire said:


> I'm not so much interested in empty company apologies. They don't mean anything to me because a true apology is making sure it doesn't happen in the first place and in the future. I really like Schiit and admire their business model but in the end they're just a company like the rest, and they have a lot of plates spinning and a few unhappy customers doesn't really mean much when the vast majority are satisfied. One missed spot on a squeaky clean floor isnt a concern. It sucks if you are the missed spot, but such is life. I try to be philosophical these days and take it in stride. But I'm also "too old for this schiit" and don't care about empty customer service apologies. Just get it done.


 
  
 Whilst I absolutely sympathize and agree with the fact the site should be duly updated, I can't really fault Schiit for running out of stock for x amount of time - the Jotunheim was received with incredible enthusiasm and I believe the same thing happened with the Modi MB when it released, it did with our European (Netherlands) Schiit dealer at least, and Sonority already warned customers that the Jotunheim won't be back in stock for about another month (toward the end of October).
  
 I understand the fact you sold your Valhalla because you were expecting to get the new amplifier but Schiit's stock is actually very impressive in my opinion so asides updating their website quicker I don't think there's much more they can really do better. I'm sure their lack of warning was far from due to poor management or generally not caring, that's not in line with their track record at all. I'm glad their products are so readily available.


----------



## ColtMrFire

I'm not sure what happened and it's really not my concern. My only issue was being led to believe one thing via their website and having something else happen. It could be better handled in the future. I'm sure I'll enjoy the Jot whenever it arrives.


----------



## MWSVette

What I find impressive is that a completely new product they introduced only 3 weeks ago has already sold out on the original production run.  Go Schiit...


----------



## Maxx134

mwsvette said:


> What I find impressive is that a completely new product they introduced only 3 weeks ago has already sold out on the original production run.  Go Schiit...



You guys just don't understand how good this schiit is.
It will take time to sink in from all the comments.
To put it bluntly, 
This amp is has incredible..

I mean, as example:

1- It had incredible synergy with the HD650.
I always noted the HD650 as a great can but never in the "TOTL" can arena.
Th Jotunheim actually able to squeeze unknown performance out of that can to push it into this TOTL arena.
This I myself thought was impossible.
You need to hear the control, slam and impact on the 650 with this, and your mouth will drop.
No more heavy, thick, or dark dullnes.
Nice and neutral and powerful now.

2-Then onto the HE1000.
The laid back nature turn into a powerful neutral headphone .
Amazing synergy here.
The last and ONLY time I ever heard the HE1000 so powerful and alive was on powerful Wells Audio "Head trip" amp.
Yet those SS amps don't give you the delicacy or air of tubes.
Yet the Jotunheim gets you more than halfway there,
Which is probably the most any SS amp will get you.
I plan to pair this with a tube preamp and have best of both worlds.


----------



## ColtMrFire

maxx134 said:


> You guys just don't understand how good this schiit is.
> It will take time to sink in from all the comments.
> To put it bluntly,
> This amp is has incredible..
> ...




Which tube preamp will you get?


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

I know its a new headphone, but has anyone tried this headphone with the Focal Elear.  The Elear is mid bass heavy, and I'm wondering if the Jotunheim would help control that mid bass by tightening it up.  Or would the combo cause bass so intense, that your eyes bleed and vomiting is induced?


----------



## Ancipital

mwsvette said:


> What I find impressive is that a completely new product they introduced only 3 weeks ago has already sold out on the original production run.  Go Schiit...


 
  
 Not surprising, though- they put out a great-sounding balanced amp that measures fantastically well and has a decent feature set.. for a price that undercuts many of their own more expensive amps, let alone their direct competition. Given that combo, I sort of expected the sales to spike like a bawss once the subjective impressions and graphs were in.
  
 I had sort of resigned myself to combing the For Sale threads for a decently-priced balanced SS amp, so when I saw this, I just about tore their arm off.


----------



## ToddRaymond

I drink Schiit's Kool-Aid as much as anybody, as evidenced by the fact that most of my posts on this site have been made on threads related to their gear (not to mention the purchases I've made), but I do feel that more could be done to update the stock availability aspect of their site.  As much as many are accustomed to dealing with giant companies with essentially unlimited resources–such as Apple–and shouldn't place so many expectations on a company that is about a Planck's length in size by comparison, for what it's worth, I feel that it's an overlooked customer service-y thing.  I've noticed a pattern there myself (good for me).  Nobody should fault or shame anyone for sharing their frustrations on here, while I suppose also bearing in mind that there are humans (just like you and I) spinning those aforementioned plates like crazy right now to ship that Schiit out.
  
 As of now the Jotunheim is still showing as being 'In stock'.


----------



## MWSVette

As of now this is what is showing for the Jotunheim on the Schiit site,

STATUS: Experiencing a production delay due to high demand. Orders placed now will ship in 5 - 7 days. We anticipate shipping units ordered prior to 9/21/2016 on or before 9/27/2016. We apologize for the delay.


They probably left for the weekend with enough then returned on Monday to find a bunch of orders. Now they will play catch up.

To anyone waiting, I can tell you it is worth the wait...


----------



## madwolfa

Now we just need that balanced Bifrost Multibit to stack properly with Jot... Compact balanced MB DAC (in a Bifrost sized chassis) is what's missing currently in the lineup. That would be a killer combo IMO.


----------



## Sanlitun

coltmrfire said:


> I also just received an email that Jot is out of stock and won't be shipping until end of next week but this is apparently just as estimate. It could take even longer.


 
  
 We here thought it would sell out and ordered the first weekend. I gather the first production run was probably no more than 500 and the hype has caught Schiit a bit by surprise.
  
 While I am sorry for those who will wait for their Jot, I congratulate Schiit on an excellent product. The Jotunheim is the first Schiit product I would unreservedly recommend, and recommend it over their even more expensive offerings. 
  
 In the two weeks I have had the Jot it has displaced my much more prestigious and expensive amps into the closet, and it will be worth the wait.


----------



## MWSVette

madwolfa said:


> Now we just need that balanced Bifrost Multibit to stack properly with Jot... Compact balanced MB DAC (in a Bifrost sized chassis) is what's missing currently in the lineup. That would be a killer combo IMO.


 
 Oh yes please...


----------



## XERO1

madwolfa said:


> Now we just need that balanced Bifrost Multibit to stack properly with Jot... Compact balanced MB DAC (in a Bifrost sized chassis) is what's missing currently in the lineup. That would be a killer combo IMO.


 
  
 Yep!  A balanced Bifrost MB would be pure awesomesause!
 And they should give it a second coax input and a sample rate display (something like what the Yggy has) while they're at it.


----------



## madwolfa

mwsvette said:


> Oh yes please...


 
  
 Cramming two Mimby PCBs into the Bifrost chassis in a hardware balanced configuration should be easy, right?


----------



## JLoud

buttuglyjeff said:


> I know its a new headphone, but has anyone tried this headphone with the Focal Elear.  The Elear is mid bass heavy, and I'm wondering if the Jotunheim would help control that mid bass by tightening it up.  Or would the combo cause bass so intense, that your eyes bleed and vomiting is induced?


 
 I have the Jotunheim and the Elear for a couple weeks now.  I really like this combo.  Bass hits hard but very controlled.  Definitely not over done.  If anything I would like a little more bass.  All in all a very nice combination.


----------



## Cet1

Very pleased that we still have companies that sell out production runs immediately!  I bow to those companies!  It is rare today as most produce mediocre products and then just try to SELL them to us.  Shows me Schiit has done their design homework, transferred that design into a production product that performs - and performs above and beyond.  Congrats Schiit!!!  If I didn't already have one, I would gladly wait for it.  Yes, their website should be updated with proper status - but I prefer a company that gets swamped with orders. work on filling those orders, than dotting every "i" or crossing every "T".  Yes congratulations to a small company with a superior product being overwhelmed - and doing their best!  Blessing to you!!!


----------



## MWSVette

madwolfa said:


> Cramming two Mimby PCBs into the Bifrost chassis in a hardware balanced configuration should be easy, right?


 
 Mike can do it.  He can do anything...


----------



## StanD

mwsvette said:


> Mike can do it.  He can do anything...


 
 Perhaps Dr. Who can help, his Tardis is bigger on the inside than the outside and the power switch is on the back.


----------



## NikonGuy

..


----------



## rsnblmn

madwolfa said:


> Now we just need that balanced Bifrost Multibit to stack properly with Jot... Compact balanced MB DAC (in a Bifrost sized chassis) is what's missing currently in the lineup. That would be a killer combo IMO.


 
  
 While I welcome this if _Mike Can Find A Way™_ -- even though he seems pretty adamant right now that it *can't* be done -- I will also add that the current SE Bimby is a pretty darn great pairing with the Jot. I'm running that exact configuration right now and couldn't be happier. The transparency of the Jot really makes me appreciate the Bimby even more than I did previously.
  
 I figured it was worth mentioning again as it seems like a lot of people are confused about the Jot's ability to run balanced outputs from a SE input. (I was at first, then when I learned that was an option, I ordered mine immediately.)


----------



## XERO1

rsnblmn said:


> I figured it was worth mentioning again as it seems like a lot of people are confused about the Jot's ability to run balanced outputs from a SE input. (I was at first, then when I learned that was an option, I ordered mine immediately.)


 
  
 It's a little baffling to me why some people are still confused by this since even the original Mjolnir, which had _*only*_ balanced outputs, still offered both SE and XLR inputs.


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

Seems like it's less about confusion and more about preference, a lot of people prefer to run an all-balanced chain when possible.
  
 That being said, I don't think that the SE nature of the Mimby or Bimby holds the Joti back in any appreciable way. I'd still rather run a Gumby or Yggy to it but I would feel that way even if they didn't have balanced outs.


----------



## Tuneslover

jloud said:


> I have the Jotunheim and the Elear for a couple weeks now.  I really like this combo.  Bass hits hard but very controlled.  Definitely not over done.  If anything I would like a little more bass.  All in all a very nice combination.




So is the bass shortfall (for you) a result of the headphones or the Jot?


----------



## XERO1

merrick said:


> That being said, I don't think that the SE nature of the Mimby or Bimby holds the Joti back in any appreciable way.


 
  
 Agreed.   You still get >95% of the benefits of a fully balanced amp by using its SE input instead of its balanced input.
  
 But as we all know, there are _*a lot*_ of us here (_myself included_) that will probably be *forever* chasing after that _*last 5%.*_


----------



## NikonGuy

..


----------



## JLoud

tuneslover said:


> jloud said:
> 
> 
> > I have the Jotunheim and the Elear for a couple weeks now.  I really like this combo.  Bass hits hard but very controlled.  Definitely not over done.  If anything I would like a little more bass.  All in all a very nice combination.
> ...


 
 The headphones.  Bass isn't lacking just doesn't go as low as say Fostex thx00.  But that is a semi-open headphone. And one with incredible sub bass.  The Elear is my new go to headphone for everything except bass heavy EDM.  Even then it is not bad for that genre.


----------



## XERO1

​Quote:


nikonguy said:


> Confucius say… Man who not produce Schiit for many days must take care of back log...


  
 Damn, that's seriously funny!  Almost made me do a spit take!


----------



## ColtMrFire

nikonguy said:


> Confucius say… Man who not produce Schiit for many days must take care of back log...




Tried not to laugh. I failed...


----------



## gto88

ancipital said:


> I used FedEx International Priority. The total for the order, including the shipping, was £348.00 at paypal exchage rates, so it worked out cheaper as well as quicker.


 
 cool, that is about the same USD that I paid in CA, US.


----------



## Flynehome

I'm just getting caught up with this thread and I'm realizing that I was one of the lucky ones. I placed my order Monday afternoon (9/19) and it shipped same day so I must have got one of the last ones that they had in their original run. It's supposed to arrive on Friday. Looking forward to this weekend! I'll post an update after I get some time with it.


----------



## Ancipital

flynehome said:


> I'm just getting caught up with this thread and I'm realizing that I was one of the lucky ones. I placed my order Monday afternoon (9/19) and it shipped same day so I must have got one of the last ones that they had in their original run. It's supposed to arrive on Friday. Looking forward to this weekend! I'll post an update after I get some time with it.


 
  
 Congrats, you can now grow/buy (depending on gender) an annoying little beard and a single-speed bike, as you can truly say that you got yours before they were mainstream


----------



## jimmers

madwolfa said:


> Cramming two Mimby PCBs into the Bifrost chassis in a hardware balanced configuration should be easy, right?


 
 If they can fit the Bimby DAC functionality into a Modi case, balanced multibit Bifrost should be easy, only a couple of extra chips - stick'em on  the back of the PCB


----------



## Allanmarcus

Just buy two mimbies and run one channel through each.


----------



## ToTo Man

allanmarcus said:


> Just buy two mimbies and one channel through each.


----------



## StanD

allanmarcus said:


> Just buy two mimbies and run one channel through each.


 
 How are you going to share the usb audio connection to the source device/player between the two?


----------



## AviP

stand said:


> How are you going to share the usb audio connection to the source device/player between the two?



Use S/PDIF with a splitter


----------



## StanD

avip said:


> Use S/PDIF with a splitter


 
 The question is how does *Allanmarcus* intend to accomplish this. S/PDIF may not be an option.


----------



## ToTo Man

stand said:


> The question is how does *Allanmarcus* intend to accomplish this. S/PDIF may not be an option.


 
 And why he would think that two single-ended Mimbys would outperform or even equal a balanced Bimby?


----------



## Allanmarcus

Folks, I was joking. I doubt anyone here could tell the different in a blind test between bimby balanced out to the Jot and a bimby SE out to the Jot. IMHO, folks here are putting way too much emphasis on balanced out between the DAC and the amp.
  
 There is a difference between an internally balanced DAC (or any audio component), the balanced interconnects between the components, and balanced from the amp to the headphones. Three different things. The one balanced that probably means the least is the balanced interconnects, unless you have a very long distance between the components. 
  
 I added a smiley to my OP to clarify I was joking


----------



## ColtMrFire

flynehome said:


> I'm just getting caught up with this thread and I'm realizing that I was one of the lucky ones. I placed my order Monday afternoon (9/19) and it shipped same day so I must have got one of the last ones that they had in their original run. It's supposed to arrive on Friday. Looking forward to this weekend! I'll post an update after I get some time with it.




See that almost makes me mad again. Placed my order on the 16th and I'm one of the ones who have to wait. No reason for that when they cleary had some to send in later orders.


----------



## Brian D

There's 3 variations, doubt they all ran out simultaneously,
  
 ...or maybe they really are out to get you...


----------



## AviP

coltmrfire said:


> See that almost makes me mad again. Placed my order on the 16th and I'm one of the ones who have to wait. No reason for that when they cleary had some to send in later orders.



They probably didn't have the same configuration that you wanted, whether it's which add-in card if at all, or what voltage etc...
When Schiit has something in stock, they'll usually ship it within a day.


----------



## ColtMrFire

flynehome said:


> I'm just getting caught up with this thread and I'm realizing that I was one of the lucky ones. I placed my order Monday afternoon (9/19) and it shipped same day so I must have got one of the last ones that they had in their original run. It's supposed to arrive on Friday. Looking forward to this weekend! I'll post an update after I get some time with it.




What configuration? Amp only or DAC? Voltage?


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

I received my amp today. The first impressions are pretty good, the single ended output performs nice and has enough power for most headphones. I modded my HD 650 to balanced to test the balanced output. For the HD 800 I will be building an extra cable in the future, I did not want to cut the expensive stock cable. Going from single ended to balanced seems to increase the sound stage, dynamics and the bass also becomes more present. The sound seems more controlled overall. I am running the amp from a Gustard X20 dac using the balanced inputs. The difference between the balanced and single ended output is bigger than I expected reading this thread. Maybe the difference is bigger if the amp is fed with a fully balanced signal from the dac.


----------



## MWSVette

coltmrfire said:


> See that almost makes me mad again. Placed my order on the 16th and I'm one of the ones who have to wait. No reason for that when they cleary had some to send in later orders.


 
  
  


brian d said:


> There's 3 variations, doubt they all ran out simultaneously,
> 
> ...or maybe they really are out to get you...


 
  
  


avip said:


> They probably didn't have the same configuration that you wanted, whether it's which add-in card if at all, or what voltage etc...
> When Schiit has something in stock, they'll usually ship it within a day.


 
  
  
 I am sure that is the case.  They had whatever he ordered on hand and your order must have already been sold out.
  
 Or Brian D is right, they are out to get you...


----------



## MWSVette

coltmrfire said:


> What configuration? Amp only or DAC? Voltage?


 
  
  
 Voltage.  Then either amp only, Phono or DAC.  That is 6 configurations...


----------



## ColtMrFire

mwsvette said:


> Voltage.  Then either amp only, Phono or DAC.  That is 6 configurations...




I understand voltage may have been an issue. But I ordered a bare amp with no add ons, so that shouldn't have been a factor. I imagine it may have been a different voltage...


----------



## AviP

coltmrfire said:


> I understand voltage may have been an issue. But I ordered a bare amp with no add ons, so that shouldn't have been a factor. I imagine it may have been a different voltage...




I'm pretty sure it's a factor. I doubt they make them all bare and throw the cards in right before they ship.


----------



## MWSVette

coltmrfire said:


> I understand voltage may have been an issue. But I ordered a bare amp with no add ons, so that shouldn't have been a factor. I imagine it may have been a different voltage...


 
 They made a number of each of the 6 configurations.  When you order one they have in stock they ship it out.  They are not made to order.
  
 My guess would be they were sold out of 120v amp only units when you ordered.


----------



## madwolfa

mwsvette said:


> They made a number of each of the 6 configurations.  When you order one they have in stock they ship it out.  They are not made to order.


 
  
 Yes, I assume they build a number of fixed SKUs (~6 for Jotunheim?) based on projected demand and ship them out as-is. They don't customize them before shipping (insert DAC or Phono, etc).


----------



## ColtMrFire

mwsvette said:


> They made a number of each of the 6 configurations.  When you order one they have in stock they ship it out.  They are not made to order.




Where can I find this information?


----------



## Alchemist007

whit3rav3n said:


> I received my amp today. The first impressions are pretty good, the single ended output performs nice and has enough power for most headphones. I modded my HD 650 to balanced to test the balanced output. For the HD 800 I will be building an extra cable in the future, I did not want to cut the expensive stock cable. Going from single ended to balanced seems to increase the sound stage, dynamics and the bass also becomes more present. The sound seems more controlled overall. I am running the amp from a Gustard X20 dac using the balanced inputs. The difference between the balanced and single ended output is bigger than I expected reading this thread. Maybe the difference is bigger if the amp is fed with a fully balanced signal from the dac.


 

 Placed an order for mine, but reading this is somewhat unsettling (though completely expected based on all the comments saying the same thing), especially since my headphones thrive on power. Reason being my tube amp is SE, and though I do have balanced cables, switching those out depending on which amp I'm using is gonna be a pain.


----------



## MWSVette

coltmrfire said:


> Where can I find this information?


 
  
 The amp comes in 2 voltages. On Schitt products the voltage is not switch selectable.  It is hard wired. Not easy to change.
  
 They do not have a bunch of open case amp only Jotunheims sitting there waiting for an order. And then if a DAC or phono amp order come in run over to the production line and slap a Dac or phono card finish assemby then ship out.
  
 That would be silly...


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

alchemist007 said:


> Placed an order for mine, but reading this is somewhat unsettling (though completely expected based on all the comments saying the same thing), especially since my headphones thrive on power. Reason being my tube amp is SE, and though I do have balanced cables, switching those out depending on which amp I'm using is gonna be a pain.


 
 I also have a SE tube amp, I solved the problem by building a 4 pin xlr to trs adaptor. That way I can keep the balanced cables on the headphones. The connectors on the headphones are probably not designed for frequent cable changes anyway.


----------



## Alchemist007

Would a switch be a possible solution? Not sure if there's one designed for this situation; dual mini xlr headphones -> balanced XLR -> switch -> (1) 6.3mm (2) balanced XLR. Maybe a passive dual cable if one exists in this configuration?


----------



## poocaso

Just received some great news that my amp is on its way from Schiit! Hopefully everyone else that has been waiting will get a shipping confirmation soon!


----------



## ColtMrFire

poocaso said:


> Just received some great news that my amp is on its way from Schiit! Hopefully everyone else that has been waiting will get a shipping confirmation soon!




Cool. What was your configuration?


----------



## MWSVette

poocaso said:


> Just received some great news that my amp is on its way from Schiit! Hopefully everyone else that has been waiting will get a shipping confirmation soon!


 
 Congrats on your new amp.  Welcome to the club...


----------



## Flynehome

I ordered mine with the DAC and 115v.


----------



## poocaso

Amp only and 115V.


----------



## ColtMrFire

poocaso said:


> Amp only and 115V.




Same here. Hopefully I will get a notice soon. What day did you order yours?


----------



## poocaso

mwsvette said:


> Congrats on your new amp.  Welcome to the club...


 
 Thanks and looking forward to hearing some of that sweet, sweet Schiit-y sound!


----------



## poocaso

coltmrfire said:


> Same here. Hopefully I will get a notice soon. What day did you order yours?


 

 Last Thursday (9/15).


----------



## ColtMrFire

poocaso said:


> Last Thursday (9/15).




Ordered mine one day after you did (9/16).


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

alchemist007 said:


> Would a switch be a possible solution? Not sure if there's one designed for this situation; dual mini xlr headphones -> balanced XLR -> switch -> (1) 6.3mm (2) balanced XLR. Maybe a passive dual cable if one exists in this configuration?


 
 I don´t think there is a switch for this situation, so you would have to build one for yourself. A passive cable without a switch would not work because for the SE connector you have to connect the two - signal wires from the left and right side. This would not allow proper balanced operation. I still think the easiest way is the adaptor, it should not degrade sound quality with proper higher quality connectors.


----------



## Alchemist007

whit3rav3n said:


> I don´t think there is a switch for this situation, so you would have to build one for yourself. A passive cable without a switch would not work because for the SE connector you have to connect the two - signal wires from the left and right side. This would not allow proper balanced operation. I still think the easiest way is the adaptor, it should not degrade sound quality with proper higher quality connectors.


 

 Ah, well I guess I could just get one of these if it comes down to it.
https://www.amazon.com/6-35mm-Female-Balanced-Headphone-Adapter/dp/B00KQRN306


----------



## NikonGuy

..


----------



## Allanmarcus

alchemist007 said:


> whit3rav3n said:
> 
> 
> > I don´t think there is a switch for this situation, so you would have to build one for yourself. A passive cable without a switch would not work because for the SE connector you have to connect the two - signal wires from the left and right side. This would not allow proper balanced operation. I still think the easiest way is the adaptor, it should not degrade sound quality with proper higher quality connectors.
> ...


 

 Many of us that DIY have made those. I use one. Cost is about $10-15 depending on connectors and cable. $25 for a pre-made one isn't too bad if DIY is not your thing or you don't know a DIYer.


----------



## earnmyturns

nikonguy said:


> I have a love hate relationship with Schiit at the moment, I love the Modi Multibit and I hate the Magni 2 Uber (that thing is a mess down low).
> 
> But I am going to wait until Mark @ Schiit UK get's some more Jot's in and give it a fair try, and I have a feeling it will be ace!


 
 The Jot's low end does not suck, especially balanced. In fact, driving MrSpeakers Ether C Flows, it gives a good challenge to my living room setup with a good class D amp (Bel Canto C7R), KEF Reference 1 main speakers, and REF T7i subwoofers.


----------



## slex

earnmyturns said:


> The Jot's low end does not suck, especially balanced. In fact, driving MrSpeakers Ether C Flows, it gives a good challenge to my living room setup with a good class D amp (Bel Canto C7R), KEF Reference 1 main speakers, and REF T7i subwoofers.




How about the high end of ether? Does not suck too?


----------



## Allanmarcus

earnmyturns said:


> nikonguy said:
> 
> 
> > I have a love hate relationship with Schiit at the moment, I love the Modi Multibit and I hate the Magni 2 Uber (that thing is a mess down low).
> ...




Er, he comaplained about the magni down low, not the jot.


----------



## earnmyturns

slex said:


> How about the high end of ether? Does not suck too?


 
 Very good to my ears, especially brushes and cymbals, but I'm well past my prime high-frequency hearing years.


----------



## earnmyturns

allanmarcus said:


> Er, he comaplained about the magni down low, not the jot.


 
 Right, I was giving him further encouragement to grab one of them when they show up across the pond...


----------



## ToddRaymond (Jun 9, 2018)

earnmyturns said:


> The Jot's low end does not suck, especially balanced. In fact, driving MrSpeakers Ether C Flows, it gives a good challenge to my living room setup with a good class D amp (Bel Canto C7R), KEF Reference 1 main speakers, and REF T7i subwoofers.




To be fair though, I feel those Kefs need a fair amount of juice to really get going. (Off topic, but nice two channel system transducers, by the way! They're of my current end game game plan.)


----------



## Letmebefrank

I swear almost every night I listen to YYZ on my headphone setup before going to bed. It just sounds so damn good. Here's to some ridiculously impactful glass smashing, incredibly articulated bass guitar, amazingly crunchy lead guitar, and unbelievably good drumming. I can hear it all in pure clarity thanks to Schiit and Sennheiser.
  
 Mimby.
 Jotunheim.
 Balanced HD650.
  
 Win.


----------



## acguitar84

letmebefrank said:


> I swear almost every night I listen to YYZ on my headphone setup before going to bed. It just sounds so damn good. Here's to some ridiculously impactful glass smashing, incredibly articulated bass guitar, amazingly crunchy lead guitar, and unbelievably good drumming. I can hear it all in pure clarity thanks to Schiit and Sennheiser.
> 
> Mimby.
> Jotunheim.
> ...




Nearly the same setup here just different headphones, ps1000e. Just listened to YYZ and it was just as you've described. A fun listen! Love Rush! And hats off to Schiit for designing such good stuff!


----------



## cthomas

Hey guys, hoping for some advice... Currently own the HD800's and the only amp/DAC I own is the Sony UDA-1. Mist of my music (except for classical or jazz) sounds thin/harsh no bass etc etc. Is the jot solving these problems with the 800 or should I just sell them and buy a hd650? 

Cheers.


----------



## NikonGuy

..


----------



## NikonGuy

.


----------



## cthomas

Yeah I definitely need a new amp regardless. I heard the 650 the other day using a DJ mixer and they blew me away, sounded more similar to my SE846's but with soundstage. Then tried them with an Apogee Groove (which is probably closer in performance to my uda1) and they sounded very average.


----------



## Ancipital

cthomas said:


> Hey guys, hoping for some advice... Currently own the HD800's and the only amp/DAC I own is the Sony UDA-1. Mist of my music (except for classical or jazz) sounds thin/harsh no bass etc etc. Is the jot solving these problems with the 800 or should I just sell them and buy a hd650?
> 
> Cheers.


 
  
 The Jot isn't going to magically fix the 6kHz spike in the HD800s- it has a very forward sound (it's a very clear SS amp), so I guess you'd need to mod or EQ them if the treble is bothering you.
  
 If you're going to pick up a Jot, then snag some HD650 and a balanced cable- and you will be off to a flying start, for sure. However, the Jot on its own won't fix what's wrong with the HD800- if anything, it will be brutally revealing of the problem.
  
 I have never heard the UDA-1, so am being someone on Them Interwebs guessing wildly, but it does sound like it's not driving your HD800 very well. Driven by an amp with enough power, there should be some bass, and a big soundstage, just everything suffering under a horrible treble spike. What I'd suggest with the HD800 is to make no hasty decisions, do some more research. It may be that with modding and the right amp, they could suit you, or conversely, you could sell them to a modder who is in a better position to enjoy them. Measure twice and cut once, so you don't end up wasting money.
  
 That said, I have no such reservations suggesting a Jot/balanced HD650 combo. That's a no-brainer combo- rich, detailed sound, really enjoyable. I assume your UDA-1 can run as a DAC with a line out, so you can go SE in to the Jot? If so, that means you don't need to spend even more cash on a new DAC right away too..


----------



## ToTo Man

Slightly off-topic, but all this recent talk about how much of a giant killer the HD650 is has me interested, albeit skeptically.  Has the HD650 always been considered a reference/audiophile quality 'phone on Head-Fi, or is its synergy with Jot what has suddenly elevated it to this level?  
  
 I've never heard the 650 but have owned the HD600 for several years.  My choice was between the 600 and 650 but chose the 600 based on reports of it having a more neutral and revealing sonic profile.  It made me a happy listener for many years, but then this summer I auditioned the new HD800S, and the improvement over the 600 was staggering, most notably in terms of spaciousness and resolution, even on the most modest of gear (it sounds stunning even directly through my iPod!).  I tried to go back to my HD600 but my ears wouldn't settle for anything less, so after weeks of saving up I now own the HD800S and am delighted.  
  
 But still I wonder about the 650.  Should I consider adding it to my headphone arsenal too, or does the HD800S kill it the same way it kills the 600?


----------



## GearMe

cthomas said:


> Hey guys, hoping for some advice... Currently own the HD800's and the only amp/DAC I own is the Sony UDA-1. Mist of my music (except for classical or jazz) sounds thin/harsh no bass etc etc. Is the jot solving these problems with the 800 or should I just sell them and buy a hd650?
> 
> Cheers.




Valhalla 2...problem solved.


----------



## Ancipital

toto man said:


> Slightly off-topic, but all this recent talk about how much of a giant killer the HD650 is has me interested, albeit skeptically.  Has the HD650 always been considered a reference/audiophile quality 'phone on Head-Fi, or is its synergy with Jot what has suddenly elevated it to this level?


 
  
 The HD650 has always been killer- but it has always required ludicrously good amplification to sound that way. Usually, that would involve amps many times the price of the HD650. What's different with the Jotenheim is that it's a relatively affordable mass market (ish) amp that can do the job.
  
 Try and drive the HD650 from your average portable amp, and it sounds like butt and arse. Hell, drive it from most low-end desktop amps, the same is true. A lot of amps can make it loud, but to get it to sit up and beg, producing tons of detail and solid, snappy bass, you need a really solid amp. Try and drive an HD650 with a Mojo, it sounds insipid and lacklustre. Drive it with a Magni 2U, it sounds loads better, but the bass is still somewhat unclear and the detail is only so-so. Plug it into a Jot, and cue up some of your favourite tunes, and be impressed.
  
 Do be aware that the Jot is very clear and upfront though- if your source isn't great, you're going to hear it.


----------



## cthomas

ancipital said:


> The Jot isn't going to magically fix the 6kHz spike in the HD800s- it has a very forward sound (it's a very clear SS amp), so I guess you'd need to mod or EQ them if the treble is bothering you.
> 
> If you're going to pick up a Jot, then snag some HD650 and a balanced cable- and you will be off to a flying start, for sure. However, the Jot on its own won't fix what's wrong with the HD800- if anything, it will be brutally revealing of the problem.
> 
> ...




Pretty much what I figured. I just don't think the HD800's are an all-rounder like I'd hoped, but I do appreciate them for what they can do with great recordings... If only all music was mastered and recorded well there'd be no problem, probably. Im thinking the I'll sell the uda and get the jot. I'll see how the HD800's go but I'll probably sell them and grab some 650's. With a good amp they are astounding with bassy music.


----------



## ColtMrFire

I too have been shocked by the giant killer reports of the 650 with right amp. Im skeptical but I will soon find out when my Jot/650 arrive and join Mimby. Hopefully Schiit will ship soon...


----------



## cthomas

gearme said:


> Valhalla 2...problem solved.




Would tubes only be good for HD800's though? Was thinking of the Lyr 2 since its SS and tube. Still confused to how you can switch between the 2.


----------



## Delayeed

cthomas said:


> Would tubes only be good for HD800's though? Was thinking of the Lyr 2 since its SS and tube. Still confused to how you can switch between the 2.


 
 There are standard tubes and the LISST ones which are solid state that you can choose also when ordering a Lyr 2. It's easy you just carefully pull them out of the sockets and swap as you like.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Valhalla 2 is specifically designed for high z cans like the HD800, which supposedly sings with high quality OTL amps like Val2. Lyr 2 is designed to drive a more diverse set of cans like planars. I personally don't like the tube sound but some people love it. Val2 is supposed to be one of the best budget amps for the 800. But do some research.


----------



## cthomas

I see. Just don't think I'll be buying an amp just to suit one pair of cans that I barely use, at least not until I'm rich enough haha. I'd like something that is a good all-rounder and can drive most cans. I don't often sit down and listen to one album at a time, I like to mix it up so it's probably better to have an all-rounder HP too. At the moment I just listen to my SE846's all the time and once in a blue moon I'll chuck on the 800's and chill with some jazz or classical or soft rock. But 95% of the time I'm listening to hip-hop or electronic music so I just don't see the point of having the 800 since I barely use it.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Jot is supposed to pair well with the 800 from most accounts. And it happens to drive most kinds of headphones. And its relatively affordable on top of possibly being Schiit's new TOTL amp. Not a lot of downside.


----------



## ColtMrFire

cthomas said:


> Pretty much what I figured. I just don't think the HD800's are an all-rounder like I'd hoped




I've heard this many times...most people don't really know what 800s can do because they haven't heard them driven properly. Its a good idea not to come to any conclusion about that HP until you find an amp they really gel with. Its Sennheiser's flagship for a reason. Best to hold on to it and try and find an amp they work well with. As I said, Jot is supposed to be just that.


----------



## Ancipital

coltmrfire said:


> I've heard this many times...most people don't really know what 800s can do because they haven't heard them driven properly. Its a good idea not to come to any conclusion about that HP until you find an amp they really gel with. Its Sennheiser's flagship for a reason. Best to hold on to it and try and find an amp they work well with. As I said, Jot is supposed to be just that.


 
  
 Arguably, it's not their flagship any more- there's more than one model in their line above the HD800.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Flagship for most practical purposes. Orpheus and the underlings are more luxury items most people aren't going to buy. It doesn't really change my point.


----------



## Ancipital

coltmrfire said:


> Flagship for most practical purposes. Orpheus and the underlings are more luxury items most people aren't going to buy. It doesn't really change my point.


 
  
 HD800S? Surprisingly popular.


----------



## cthomas

Yeah you're probably right. I was completely surprised hearing the 650s on 2 different amps. I went to a DJ store who had the 650's yesterday and heard them through an Allen and Heath DJ mixer, it was amazing. Then tried the Apogee Groove with the 650, was unimpressed. Thinking I might take the trip again but with my 800's, see what they sound like.


----------



## Ancipital

cthomas said:


> Yeah you're probably right. I was completely surprised hearing the 650s on 2 different amps. I went to a DJ store who had the 650's yesterday and heard them through an Allen and Heath DJ mixer, it was amazing. Then tried the Apogee Groove with the 650, was unimpressed. Thinking I might take the trip again but with my 800's, see what they sound like.


 
  
 Hah, I have a couple of A+H DJ mixers, never thought to plug my HD650 into them. I'd be amazed if sounded anywhere near as good as my Jot, even though the A+H headphone sections tend to go up to "11".
  
 That said, my Xone 92 rotary has developed a recurring fault, so unless I can find someone who wants to fix it and give it a good home, I'm going to end up skipping it (no matter how much I love the filters and LFO).


----------



## cthomas

ancipital said:


> Hah, I have a couple of A+H DJ mixers, never thought to plug my HD650 into them. I'd be amazed if sounded anywhere near as good as my Jot, even though the A+H headphone sections tend to go up to "11".
> 
> That said, my Xone 92 rotary has developed a recurring fault, so unless I can find someone who wants to fix it and give it a good home, I'm going to end up skipping it (no matter how much I love the filters and LFO).




Yeah I'm quite sure it was an xone 92. Is it still working? Would like to hear how it compares to the Jot. Might give me an idea of what to expect


----------



## Ancipital

cthomas said:


> Yeah I'm quite sure it was an xone 92. Is it still working? Would like to hear how it compares to the Jot. Might give me an idea of what to expect


 
  
 It is, but it has feedback on a channel. If I can take that channel out of routing, I will give it a go, though. It spends most of its time hooked up to a Serato setup, but I am sure I could hook it up to my Mimby instead, just to even things out a bit. It lives about two meters away from my Jotenheim, and I still have the SE cable for my HD650 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 (If anyone in the UK wants a Xone 92 rotary with some funny feedback fault, fixed once, but annoying returned, probably on another channel, they can always drop me a PM. I'm sure the price would be sensible- though you'd have to pay shipping. Comes with an aluminium flight case!)


----------



## cthomas

Cool, only if it's not too much trouble.


----------



## GearMe

cthomas said:


> Would tubes only be good for HD800's though? Was thinking of the Lyr 2 since its SS and tube. Still confused to how you can switch between the 2.




Yeah, I decided to go the multiple amp route...having an OTL amp for my high impedance headphones and SS for the rest. If you envision getting some more of these types of cans, then an OTL amp may be a good investment for you. Otherwise, the Lyr may be a better play. My personal thought was I'd rather get the Valhalla 2 and then upgrade my SS amp...was thinking Asgard 2 prior to the Jot being released; probably will go with Jot now


FWIW...don't have much Hip-Hop / Electronic but took the time to listen to several songs from The E.N.D. by The Black Eyed Peas with the HD800's and the HD650's on both the UDA-1 and the Mimby/Vahalla 2. 

A few observations:
- Not a fair fight between the Sony vs the Schiit...that said, I paid $200 for a new UDA-1 on Woot vs $950 for the Mimby/Vahalla 2 stack...sometimes, you get what you pay for.
- The Black Eyed Peas on the HD800's / Schiit stack sound pretty darn good to my ears -- enough bass, etc....so do the 650's! On the UDA-1...Meh.
- I wouldn't spend any time with the HD800's on the UDA-1 (and haven't) but it's not what I bought it for. 
- TBH, the Sony is a solid, swiss army knife for a computer desktop system including DSD and the ability to drive speakers. Jack of all trades; Master of none.

A question/consideration:
- If the SE846's (known to be bass heavy) are your preferred signature and the HD800's sound 'thin/harsh no bass etc etc', why don't you sell the Senn's and get cans closer to SE846's signature? 

Below is an FR graph with the 650's, SE846's, SRH1540's, and HP50's. As an example, the SRH1540's seem to come fairly close to the SE846's and hopefully share some Shure house sound similarities (innerfidelity review here). Never heard them but they appear to have a sound signature quite different from the Senn's. Another option would be NAD HP50's (innerfidelity). Just two of many options...


----------



## ColtMrFire

The 800s are capable of bass. If they are "bright and thin" it is the amp. I personally don't think he should even consider selling the 800s until he's heard them on a proper amp. Its like wanting to sell a new Porsche because you've only driven it in a parking lot. That said, the Valhalla 2 is not very plentiful in the bass department. Its one of the reasons I sold mine. But it is excellent in every other area (tone, timbre, soundstage, air, transients, etc)


----------



## BarDash

cthomas said:


> Hey guys, hoping for some advice... Currently own the HD800's and the only amp/DAC I own is the Sony UDA-1. Mist of my music (except for classical or jazz) sounds thin/harsh no bass etc etc. Is the jot solving these problems with the 800 or should I just sell them and buy a hd650?
> 
> Cheers.


 

 HD800s sounds nothing like that to me... probably the amp. Personally I really enjoy the Jot balanced with those HP's.


----------



## cthomas

gearme said:


> Yeah, I decided to go the multiple amp route...having an OTL amp for my high impedance headphones and SS for the rest. If you envision getting some more of these types of cans, then an OTL amp may be a good investment for you. Otherwise, the Lyr may be a better play. My personal thought was I'd rather get the Valhalla 2 and then upgrade my SS amp...was thinking Asgard 2 prior to the Jot being released; probably will go with Jot now
> 
> 
> FWIW...don't have much Hip-Hop / Electronic but took the time to listen to several songs from The E.N.D. by The Black Eyed Peas with the HD800's and the HD650's on both the UDA-1 and the Mimby/Vahalla 2.
> ...




Wow! Thanks so much for that I didn't realise anyone used the uda-1 but me. I bought it before I knew anything about amps and dacs and am (was) a bit of a Sony fan-boy. I paid close to full price for the Sony too, $750 AUD. I could've had something so much better for that price now I realise. One thing I really like about the uda is it has a remote so I can lay back with my logitech harmony remote and control volume with the uda and skip tracks on Audirvana without having to reach for a volume nob or use 2 remotes. It's not powerful enough to power my speakers so I just use some rca's to my receiver from the uda. But I also like that it has Optical in so I can hook it up to my PS4 to watch movies. So it has a few benefits over the jot, but I guess it's stuff I could go without since the jot would schiit all over the uda in the amp department. 

I used to own the TH-X00 before the HD800's. They were my first full size cans I'd ever bought, I'd always been into iem's. They sounded ok but the bass was a bit too much and I thought they lacked detail compared to the SE846's, so I couldn't see the point in owning them since the SE846's were more comfortable. And the Fostex didn't have much soundstage and I expected full size HP's to have decent soundstage. 

Then I auditioned the HD800's but the guy only had classic music but the soundstage and clarity blew me away so I bought them, but now 6 months later I realise (at least with the uda) that that's all they're good for. But I would love if they just sounded a bit fuller and bassier, if a good amp like the jot can help that then I will most likely keep them. It's just difficult to know what to do when I don't have any stores near me that have decent gear.

And I'm really not experienced enough to know what graphs really show. I feel like most people on these types of forums have gone to headphone college or something 

I think I'll just sell the uda, buy the jot and go and try as many HP's as I can within a 100km radius. Providing I decide not to keep the 800's. But basically something with accurate bass and decent soundstage would be my preferred signature. And nothing too crazy expensive... I was maybe considering the Elear but then people mention they are very close in performance to the 650, and in Australia the 650 is around 1/4 the price of the Elear. This hobby is seriously becoming a headache if you can't audition everything at once. My only real solution... Go for a 9 hour drive to Sydney


----------



## cthomas

coltmrfire said:


> The 800s are capable of bass. If they are "bright and thin" it is the amp. I personally don't think he should even consider selling the 800s until he's heard them on a proper amp. Its like wanting to sell a new Porsche because you've only driven it in a parking lot. That said, the Valhalla 2 is not very plentiful in the bass department. Its one of the reasons I sold mine. But it is excellent in every other area (tone, timbre, soundstage, air, transients, etc)




It's weird because some songs have decent bass when I don't expect it and vice versa.


----------



## cthomas

bardash said:


> HD800s sounds nothing like that to me... probably the amp. Personally I really enjoy the Jot balanced with those HP's.




I know I'm probably getting ahead of myself here... But are expensive cables needed for balanced?


----------



## ColtMrFire

No.


----------



## ColtMrFire

The 800s are supposed to be one of those cans that scale to infinity. So as your gear gets better they just keep improving. They are one of those cans that are probably good to keep around even if you don't listen to them much because they will come in handy down the road when you can afford better gear. But apparently the Jot is one of those amps. Schiit also has a 15 day return policy in case it doesn't work out.

If you Google search "best amps for HD800" you will get plenty of results. Being unable to audition amps simply means you have to do a lot more research, but I find that part of the process fun.


----------



## madwolfa

cthomas said:


> I know I'm probably getting ahead of myself here... But are expensive cables needed for balanced?


 
  
 The whole point of balanced connection is to reduce the RF noise susceptibility (especially for the long runs). I assume that would automatically reduce the cable shielding requirements hence decreasing the manufacturing costs.


----------



## Jazz1

Does anyone know when and if this might be ordered on Amazon.com? I've got a gift card I'd love to use on this purchase. I understand they are backordered, so I guess it might be awhile before they are sold on Amazon.


----------



## Allanmarcus

madwolfa said:


> cthomas said:
> 
> 
> > I know I'm probably getting ahead of myself here... But are expensive cables needed for balanced?
> ...


 

 That's the theory for "traditional" balanced. For headphone cables, "balanced" generally means no shared common in the cable. Traditional balanced cables don't have a common and hot, but have a positive and a negative and a ground. In a single ended set up, all the current runs through the hot. In a balanced set up, half runs through the pos, and half (the opposite) through the neg. Basically, the goal is to get rid of a common ground, which has very positive results (pun intended  
  
 Balanced headphones per se are just the output a (hopefully) well designed, fully balanced amplifier. They aren't about reducing EMI, which is what balanced interconnects are for.
  
 Good article here:
  
 https://www.headphone.com/pages/balanced-headphones-guide


----------



## poocaso

jazz1 said:


> Does anyone know when and if this might be ordered on Amazon.com? I've got a gift card I'd love to use on this purchase. I understand they are backordered, so I guess it might be awhile before they are sold on Amazon.


 

 Probably not a high priority for Schiit to have it listed on Amazon. In fact, Jason's first chapter is titled: *The Trials and Tribulations of Amazon*
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/701900/schiit-happened-the-story-of-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up/4695
  
 Maybe try contacting Schiit customer service to have it listed for you? You could use your gift card but most likely the price on Amazon will be higher than from Schiit direct. From Jason: "Which is why you’re going to be seeing some changes on how we sell on Amazon. Expect higher prices, beginning now. The lowest price you’ll pay will be via our site—every time. If you want the convenience of purchasing via Amazon, there will be an incremental cost involved."


----------



## GearMe

bardash said:


> HD800s sounds nothing like that to me... probably the amp. Personally I really enjoy the Jot balanced with those HP's.



Good to know...would like to try balanced as well as step up my SS amp capability. Just confirming do you have the HD800 or the HD800S? Also, did you go with Senn cable or aftermarket?


----------



## NikonGuy

..


----------



## BarDash

cthomas said:


> I know I'm probably getting ahead of myself here... But are expensive cables needed for balanced?



HD800s come with a really good balanced cable. And cables are "low in the food chain" after phones, amp, room you'll have your set up in, DAC, etc IMO


----------



## Allanmarcus

bardash said:


> cthomas said:
> 
> 
> > I know I'm probably getting ahead of myself here... But are expensive cables needed for balanced?
> ...


 

 I assume for "room" you are referring to noise levels in the room? I would imagine the room acoustics aren't that important for headphone use.


----------



## Tuneslover

Has anyone compared a Jot to a Magni2U? Aside from balanced what's the advantage?

Also if going SE out from Bimby into SE Jot and then balanced headphone out from Jot do you get the higher power output from the Jot?


----------



## franzdom

tuneslover said:


> Has anyone compared a Jot to a Magni2U? Aside from balanced what's the advantage?
> 
> Also if going SE out from Bimby into SE Jot and then balanced headphone out from Jot do you get the higher power output from the Jot?


 
  
 A. Comparing specs on the mfg website, the single end is a bit stronger and cleaner. Balanced is a LOT stronger. 
  
 2. yes


----------



## Alchemist007

Is the stronger balanced output simply a feature of the amp or somehow limited by the cables themselves and something TRS just isn't capable of outputting?


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

alchemist007 said:


> Is the stronger balanced output simply a feature of the amp or somehow limited by the cables themselves and something TRS just isn't capable of outputting?


 
 It is due to the fact that only two of the 4 channels in the amp are used in SE mode.


----------



## GearMe

bardash said:


> HD800s come with a really good balanced cable. And cables are "low in the food chain" after phones, amp, room you'll have your set up in, DAC, etc IMO



Thanks...am assuming you got the newer, HD800S then?


----------



## ColtMrFire

tuneslover said:


> Has anyone compared a Jot to a Magni2U? Aside from balanced what's the advantage?




Jot is a much better amp than M2U. That's the advantage.


----------



## NikonGuy

.


----------



## NikonGuy

..


----------



## ColtMrFire

nikonguy said:


> How do you know you don't have one?




I can read.


----------



## NikonGuy

..


----------



## franzdom

Book smart vs. Street smart


----------



## ColtMrFire

If Jot doesn't outperform Magni 2 I'm returning it. I've had Magni 2 and I know its shortcomings. I make informed decisions about what to buy from people whos opinions I trust. It has nothing to do with hype.


----------



## bavinck

nikonguy said:


> How do you know you don't have one?



Good etiquette on headfi is indeed own a piece of gear (or somehow spend significant time with it) before you provide guidance on it to others. Also, specifics of why it is better, not just stating it is better, is required. I still don't think the op question is answered.


----------



## Ancipital

tuneslover said:


> Has anyone compared a Jot to a Magni2U? Aside from balanced what's the advantage?
> 
> Also if going SE out from Bimby into SE Jot and then balanced headphone out from Jot do you get the higher power output from the Jot?


 
  
 The advantage is that the Jot eats it for breakfast. Sold my Magni 2U this week- impressive for the money, but it's still a $150 minature amp, and can't work miracles. The Jot is cleaner, faster, more powerful and more flexible. It's not even close, especially if you're one of those HD650-using proles like me. That snappy textured bass performance on its own is worth the price of admission- something that I always found the Magni 2I struggled with. However, you'll notice a lot more than that once your ears get used to it.
  
 You get the higher power out from balanced no matter what your input method is. You can go SE-SE, BAL-BAL, BAL-SE or SE-BAL without problems, on the Jot. The output power comes from the amp, not from the input. According to atomicbob's measurements of the Jot, things will always be a bit cleaner with more balanced involved, but the differences are really minimal. They didn't noticeably cut corners.


----------



## lenroot77

coltmrfire said:


> Jot is a much better amp than M2U. That's the advantage.




Maybe someone who's owned should answer that question? 

No offense Colt you are on these Schiit threads all day giving advice on products you haven't owned or maybe haven't even heard... Too many of your posts contain the word "supposed"... as in you don't personally know... your just repeating stuff you read...


----------



## BarDash

gearme said:


> Good to know...would like to try balanced as well as step up my SS amp capability. Just confirming do you have the HD800 or the HD800S? Also, did you go with Senn cable or aftermarket?



Hd800s which includes the balanced... A very capable cable but very long for my needs.


----------



## tekkster

An unsolicited thought from a non-audiophile.

 The HD800s using a balanced cable with the Jot, gives me a bit of a headache.  I'm not familiar with the correct terminology, but high notes from some instruments are so...harsh?  grating?  Even at lower volumes, Keiko Matsui, Lindsey Stirling, Yanni, Parker, Garrett, Foster, some older stuff like Thelonius, Coltrane, Ellington, Tatum, Yamanaka, even Flanagan and Hargrove (who are to me the same type of volume and energy as Matsui), can sorta be hard to listen to.  And classical, almost all of it is too much for me to listen to.  Classical solo stuff is easy, like some piano or cello solos, but anything symphony gives me a headache super fast.

 I'm listening mostly to Beyer T1, which...at first, I couldn't tell why I liked them...but the more I listen, the most I get it.  it's just more...."active" at lower volumes.  On some percussion stuff, I can sorta feel as much as hear (that's a lame description, probably).  It's the most...."hear every little detail" of the bunch except the er-4s, but it's a lot more "energetic" at lower volume of the bunch.

 The other headphones I have sound... "muted" a good word?  uninteresting?  not muddy.  just...less...uhh....ugh...I don't know how to explain it right.  "less interesting" is the only thing that comes to mind.  The Fostex Tr80/250 doesn't feel, even? flat/ consistent from low to high?  bass or low stuff is louder and mid and high stuff (vocals to flute to violin etc.) feel less, prominent.  Also have this funny cheap pair called Sharkk Bravo, which is sometimes easier to listen to when I'm really tired, though a little hard to hear as much stuff as the T1, the fact that everything sorta blends together is sometimes easier to listen to, especially with chris botti type smooth jazz (last hour or two of the business day kind of music).  Ety er-4s never sounded so good to me, though it seems a notch less...interesting, than the T1.  The ATH-M50X, which I don't own but have been borrowing (loan trade, hehe) for a while, is great, though, like the HD800s starts to "hurt" is the wrong word "make me wince" on some notes.

 I'll learn the correct terminology and match it better to what I hear one of these days.

 Anyway, figured this was an impressions thread, so might as well.  I work from home, so have one or the other headphone on pretty much all day.


----------



## BarDash

allanmarcus said:


> I assume for "room" you are referring to noise levels in the room? I would imagine the room acoustics aren't that important for headphone use.


 

 You assume correctly and I couldn't disagree with you more. When I have a pair of open backed HP's on and I'm listening to music unless of course it's turned up to a very high level and sometimes even than the TV definitely can interfere. We have a room with surround and one with a sound bar that In the past I've "competed with" (meaning turning it up louder to drown out the noise) whilst listening to my HP's.
 Hence one of the primary reasons The Man Cave was invented!


----------



## BarDash

gearme said:


> Thanks...am assuming you got the newer, HD800S then?


 

 Yup, sold my LCD 2's and waited awhile to hear some feedback before I purchased the HD800s's.


----------



## Allanmarcus

bardash said:


> allanmarcus said:
> 
> 
> > I assume for "room" you are referring to noise levels in the room? I would imagine the room acoustics aren't that important for headphone use.
> ...


 

 I didn't mean to confuse room acoustics with background noise. Sorry.
 Clearly external noise can affect headphone enjoyment. The quieter the room, the better. I finally got my wife to use headphones (beyerdynamic DT-770) when she watches TV and Im listening via headphones. She finally gets it.
  
 Room acoustics refers to standing waves, reflections and such in a room. Generally one cares about those when optimizing a room for speakers, but I can't see how that would affect headphone usage. 
  
 Quiet room, yes
 Bass traps and room treatments, for headphones, I don't think so.


----------



## BarDash

tekkster said:


> An unsolicited thought from a non-audiophile.
> 
> The HD800s using a balanced cable with the Jot, gives me a bit of a headache.  I'm not familiar with the correct terminology, but high notes from some instruments are so...harsh?  grating?  Even at lower volumes, Keiko Matsui, Lindsey Stirling, Yanni, Parker, Garrett, Foster, some older stuff like Thelonius, Coltrane, Ellington, Tatum, Yamanaka, even Flanagan and Hargrove (who are to me the same type of volume and energy as Matsui), can sorta be hard to listen to.  And classical, almost all of it is too much for me to listen to.  Classical solo stuff is easy, like some piano or cello solos, but anything symphony gives me a headache super fast.
> 
> ...


 

 You definitely have a right to your own opinion/impressions. But what I didn't hear you mention was what other amps/dacs to you use? Are you content with the HD800s as a whole or just don't like them with the Jot? It sounds as if you don't like the Jot at all in which case you could return them within the 15 days or if that's past possibly put them up for sale here... I'm sure you'll get some interest.


----------



## NikonGuy

..


----------



## Allanmarcus

tekkster said:


> An unsolicited thought from a non-audiophile.
> 
> The HD800s using a balanced cable with the Jot, gives me a bit of a headache.  I'm not familiar with the correct terminology, ...
> 
> Anyway, figured this was an impressions thread, so might as well.  I work from home, so have one or the other headphone on pretty much all day.


 
  
 Thanks for your impressions. The technical term is "owie"


----------



## ColtMrFire

lenroot77 said:


> Maybe someone who's owned should answer that question?
> 
> No offense Colt you are on these Schiit threads all day giving advice on products you haven't owned or maybe haven't even heard... Too many of your posts contain the word "supposed"... as in you don't personally know... your just repeating stuff you read...




A gross overstament. The only thing I've spoken of that I dont own or haven't heard is the Jot. And some people I trust have spoken of it, which is a ringing endorsement based on my taste.


----------



## BarDash

allanmarcus said:


> I didn't mean to confuse room acoustics with background noise. Sorry.
> Clearly external noise can affect headphone enjoyment. The quieter the room, the better. I finally got my wife to use headphones (beyerdynamic DT-770) when she watches TV and Im listening via headphones. She finally gets it.
> 
> Room acoustics refers to standing waves, reflections and such in a room. Generally one cares about those when optimizing a room for speakers, but I can't see how that would affect headphone usage.
> ...


 

 I agree and definitely was not referring to room acoustics but a quiet (if possible of course kid free environment with a comfy chair and an occasional glass of red wine or IPA.


----------



## tekkster

bardash said:


> You definitely have a right to your own opinion/impressions. But what I didn't hear you mention was what other amps/dacs to you use? Are you content with the HD800s as a whole or just don't like them with the Jot? It sounds as if you don't like the Jot at all in which case you could return them within the 15 days or if that's past possibly put them up for sale here... I'm sure you'll get some interest.




I have the hdvd800. And frankly, i don't like that too much either. It's probably because I'm getting old, but loud volume gives me a headache really fast. So headphones that are pleasant and interesting and allows me to hear the little things that are often drowned out, but do that at low volume are what i want When i went to macworld sf in 2009, they had a demo of the hd800 and hdvd800 and i was blown away. Even at low volumes, despite being a loud trade show, i lowered the volume and was stunned at how real the jazz sounded, so got it the following year. Not once did it sound good to me at home. I bought high res files, switched to a lossless audio player on my mac, tried cd's, went to the high end audio store nearby and asked what to do, and got suckered into expensive cables, nothing worked.

I was gonna sell them, but just left them around and used mostly the ety er-4s (at home) or er-4p (mobile). 

Since the jot arrived, i pulled thme out to try, and some of the instruments were piercing....finally, found the word i want to use. 

I tried from jriver-usb jot dac-hd800, jriver-usb mojo-se jot-hd800, and jriver-optical mojo-se jot-hd800. These three setups all give me a headache on some songs with high instruments.

I have old stax and koss stuff but from the early 90's and a w2002 somewhere. Dunno if the stax or koss ear speakers can plug into the jot. But have thought of trying that if the plugs fit. The amps for both broke a long time ago, but never got around to fixing them or replacing those amps. The w2002 would also ge fun to try.

But so far, the t1 and the (laugh if you will) sharkk bravo are my two favs for the jot. T1 in the morning and early afternoon, bravo towards the end of the day when i get tired and want a....softer? sound

Oh, and i like the jot. Tons. Just not with the hd800. It's my first foray back into buying better audio gear since the early 90's (and the brief mis-step with the big purchase in 2010)

Not sure if anything i said makes sense.


----------



## comzee

coltmrfire said:


> And some people I trust have spoken of it, which is a ringing endorsement based on my taste.


 
 I was one of the first to receive the Jot, and you were arguing with me through parroted impressions. You made cocksure claims that the Jot would perform neck and neck with totl amps like the Ragnarok, without hearing it....
 If Marv and the group think people over at sbaf are "trusted", God help us all.
  
 I'll add one thing, I think the Jot is a terrible pairing with the HD800, from *personal* experience


----------



## bavinck

tekkster said:


> I have the hdvd800. And frankly, i don't like that too much either. It's probably because I'm getting old, but loud volume gives me a headache really fast. So headphones that are pleasant and interesting and allows me to hear the little things that are often drowned out, but do that at low volume are what i want When i went to macworld sf in 2009, they had a demo of the hd800 and hdvd800 and i was blown away. Even at low volumes, despite being a loud trade show, i lowered the volume and was stunned at how real the jazz sounded, so got it the following year. Not once did it sound good to me at home. I bought high res files, switched to a lossless audio player on my mac, tried cd's, went to the high end audio store nearby and asked what to do, and got suckered into expensive cables, nothing worked.
> 
> I was gonna sell them, but just left them around and used mostly the ety er-4s (at home) or er-4p (mobile).
> 
> ...


 
 Hey man, looks like you might want to job club grado - amazing clarity at low volume and they _kill _jazz:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/530965/grado-fan-club


----------



## BarDash

comzee said:


>


 

 I myself think the Jot is an awesome pairing from *personal *experience with the HD800s's.


----------



## XERO1

> I'll add one thing, I think the Jot is a terrible pairing with the HD800, from *personal* experience


 
  
 Sometimes it can just be too much of a good thing.
  
 It's all about finding that 'just right' balance that suits your own personal preferences, whatever they may be.


----------



## Allanmarcus

There are a number of mods for the HD800. Some easy, some difficult. These mod all attempt to rein in the 6k peak that some people (ok, most people) find troubling. The HD800S attempts to resolve that issue with some minor redesign. If you like the HD800 but find the treble peak annoying, try a mod or an HD800S.
  
 The revealing nature of the Jot may exacerbate the peak to some people.


----------



## comzee

xero1 said:


> Sometimes it can just be too much of a good thing.
> 
> It's all about finding that 'just right' balance that suits your own personal preferences, whatever they may be.


 
 I think the Jot is a hair bright, the AKM4490 module is a hair bright, and the hd800 are known to have that 6khz spike, it all adds up none musical experience for me.
 Yes you get the hyper detail of the hd800, yes the Jot is great for its $400 price range, I can see people liking it, ymmv.


----------



## BarDash

I'm awaiting a balanced cable for my Ether C's for use with the Jot. Personally I like the sound using SE, it feels a little tamer less trebly than the HD800s's IMO but I really want to see what balanced can do. It'll be weeks before it arrives though... sigh


----------



## BarDash

tekkster said:


> I have the hdvd800. And frankly, i don't like that too much either. It's probably because I'm getting old, but loud volume gives me a headache really fast. So headphones that are pleasant and interesting and allows me to hear the little things that are often drowned out, but do that at low volume are what i want When i went to macworld sf in 2009, they had a demo of the hd800 and hdvd800 and i was blown away. Even at low volumes, despite being a loud trade show, i lowered the volume and was stunned at how real the jazz sounded, so got it the following year. Not once did it sound good to me at home. I bought high res files, switched to a lossless audio player on my mac, tried cd's, went to the high end audio store nearby and asked what to do, and got suckered into expensive cables, nothing worked.
> 
> I was gonna sell them, but just left them around and used mostly the ety er-4s (at home) or er-4p (mobile).
> 
> ...


 

 It's your ears so no matter what I say or anyone else says it all makes sense... Welcome back from the 90's audio world  Things have definitely changed for the better but also have gotten much more complicated.
 I remember the good old days when all I strived for was a pair off Bose 901 speakers to pair with my Sherwood receiver.


----------



## lenroot77

coltmrfire said:


> A *gross overstament. *The only thing I've spoken of that I dont own or haven't heard is the Jot. And some people I trust have spoken of it, which is a ringing endorsement based on my taste.



 
Not so much pal in the last 12 hours  you've been just on this thread" "advising" people on the M2U, Hd800 and Jot...


----------



## lenroot77

All I'm saying is you have been on here for a few weeks promoting this amp and today you said well if it sounds like the M2 and you don't like it you'll return it. 

Youre giving people impressions/hype on an item that cost 400-500 dollars and you haven't heard it personally.


----------



## earnmyturns

turdski said:


> To be there though, I feel those Kefs need a fair amount of juice to really get going. (Off topic, but nice two channel system transducers, by the way! They're of my current end game game plan.)


 
 The C7R has enough juice for those speakers, but compared with my new headphone setup is a bit too polite overall, especially in the bass. Don't know if that is from the built-in delta-sigma DAC, from the ICEpower class D amplification, or both. When I got it, it was quite an upgrade relative to a Naim UnitiQute, but that was before I started listening to multibit, Jotunheim, and C Flows...


----------



## tekkster

bavinck said:


> Hey man, looks like you might want to job club grado - amazing clarity at low volume and they _kill_ jazz:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/530965/grado-fan-club




In the queue are new camera lenses, new camping gear, upgrading ipad, possible new amp, new dac, and now new headphones? I needz more money.

#ihavefirstworldproblems


----------



## earnmyturns

nikonguy said:


> Given your living room setup that is praise indeed!


 
 In defense of my living room setup, soundstage is way better (but that's to be expected relative to even the best closed headphones, I guess), and noise floor is lower (not that it is high in my headphone setup). But I could imagine moving from the C7R to a multibit DAC + beefier, edgier amp (something like this, or new 2-channel goodies from Schiit). I just feel that some well-recorded music, especially Baroque strings, jazz sax and double bass, seems to be slightly smoothed with very fine sandpaper on living room system relative to the headphone system, which conveys the finer details of instrument tone, especially the "roughness" of bow on strings, of double bass strings being released, and of airflow in the sax, especially around the reed.


----------



## Ggroch

The Joty seems to bring out the very best in most of the headphones I have tried... but there is real synergy with the Sony MDR-Z7 in balanced mode.
  
 My first comment is sincere, I am amazed at how the Joty seems to support extra detail, control, makes nearly everything sound great. 
  
 Today I cut off the ends of the silly dual phone plug balanced cable that comes with the MDR-Z7 and replaced them with a 4 Pin XLR.  $5 investment.
  
 The result for me was total revelation. Much better control of bass, sophisticated layered midrange and highs.  A phone I was not totally sold on is now on the favorites list.    My guess is the fact that Joty provides more power/control in balanced due to its circuitry makes a bigger difference than SE vs Balanced on its own.   Anyway, if you own a pair of MDR-Z7's it is worth it to try them with the Joty in balanced mode.


----------



## Tuneslover

I guess when it comes down to it how much better does the Jot sound (than the M2U) when considering the resale value of selling my Magni and upgrading to the Jot.


----------



## sheldaze

tuneslover said:


> I guess when it comes down to it how much better does the Jot sound (than the M2U) when considering the resale value of selling my Magni and upgrading to the Jot.


 
 There is nothing particularly wrong with keeping the M2U - it's a solid, entry amplifier capable of running with a diverse set of headphones. I would suggest the Jot if you think your headphones can utilize its additional power and extra clarity. I would base the decision more on the headphones than the resale value. Also note that M2U may hide certain things (think - easier to listen to). I was listening to the Jot earlier today, and just found I could not read or do anything else. I could not concentrate on a secondary task, other than listening. It was quite demanding of my attention!
  
 I am keeping my M2U, and will likely make a stack of either Modi Multibit or Modi 4490 next to my computer, for background music. Jot sits atop the Yggy, and keeps me engaged in the music, in a more dedicated listening space.


----------



## Allanmarcus

ggroch said:


> The Joty seems to bring out the very best in most of the headphones I have tried... but there is real synergy with the Sony MDR-Z7 in balanced mode.
> 
> My first comment is sincere, I am amazed at how the Joty seems to support extra detail, control, makes nearly everything sound great.
> 
> ...


 

 Makes sense. The Jodie seems to pair incredible well with the HD650, also a warm headphone. The Z7 is pretty warm, so all the power and control down low along with really fine detail up top would (on paper) pair well with the sony.


----------



## ColtMrFire

comzee said:


> was one of the first to receive the Jot, and you were arguing with me through parroted impressions. You made cocksure claims that the Jot would perform neck and neck with totl amps like the Ragnarok, without hearing it....




Its funny how you interpreted that as arguing. I was providing information that was freely available with no agenda either way. Most people cannot demo gear so buy them blindly based on little more than other people's impressions. That is simply how it works. You call that parroting information, so be it.


----------



## Allanmarcus

Alright folk, let's just STOP the ad hominem and personal discussion. This happened over on another thread and the management came down hard. I'm not the management, but I think I speak for everyone here when I say just stop, or take it to PM.
  
 This thread is for discussion of the Jodie, not the people.
  
 No need to reply. just please stop.


----------



## AviP

sheldaze said:


> There is nothing particularly wrong with keeping the M2U - it's a solid, entry amplifier capable of running with a diverse set of headphones. I would suggest the Jot if you think your headphones can utilize its additional power and extra clarity. I would base the decision more on the headphones than the resale value. Also note that M2U may hide certain things (think - easier to listen to). I was listening to the Jot earlier today, and just found I could not read or do anything else. I could not concentrate on a secondary task, other than listening. It was quite demanding of my attention!
> 
> I am keeping my M2U, and will likely make a stack of either Modi Multibit or Modi 4490 next to my computer, for background music. Jot sits atop the Yggy, and keeps me engaged in the music, in a more dedicated listening space.



Can you compare TH-X00 (mahogany if possible, but PH works too) on Magni2U vs Jot?


----------



## Letmebefrank

My not very detailed comparison of the magni 2 and the Jotunheim, and I own both. It's like the difference between the amp in your head unit powering aftermarket 6x9s (sounds good) and powering them with a dedicated 100Wpc amplifier (blows your balls off).


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

I agree that the HD800 with the internal DAC of the Joti are a bad pairing. I've heard that combo myself and found it painful. I cannot say how the HD800 might sound with the Jot if you were using a different DAC, nor how it might sound if you were using an HD800S or a modded HD800.


----------



## Brooko

[Mod Comment]
  
 Hi - I've seen the discussion regarding commenting on gear if 
 [a] you don't own one (yet)
* you haven't heard or spent enough time with one to have an informed opinion.
  
 Please refer to the posting guidelines
 http://www.head-fi.org/a/posting-guidelines
  
 And specifically this section:
  



Reviews and Impressions We value good, well-written reviews with pictures and videos, so please do take the time to add your reviews (in full, not just a link to your blog or channel) to the product in the Head Gear section. We put good reviews on the front page and you don't have to be a long established member for that.
 
Please don't recommend or post reviews of equipment you don't own or otherwise don't have a reasonable amount of familiarity with. You wouldn't recommend someone a car you've never driven or suggest someone live in a country you haven't been to, so recommending headphones and equipment you haven't owned or used is unhelpful. Even if you've seen the same comments about something from a dozen members, save discussion of that if you're intending to buy it yourself. Likewise, People use the reviews in the Head Gear section to decide what product to buy, and brief impressions or comments by people who don't own a product (or at least haven't had it in their possession for a sufficient amount of time) are unhelpful.

Click to expand...

 
  
 If the above describes you, then please remember - you're in a thread with actual owners - so when someone asks direct questions about it - and you have no experience - please refrain from giving advice. Let the ones with direct experience answer instead.
  
 Thanks
  
 Paul
*


----------



## ToTo Man

Since the release of the new *HD800S*, I've found it difficult to be certain what headphone folks are referring to in their posts.  e.g. Some refer to the original *HD800* as HD800's or HD800s, while some refer to the new HD800S as HD800S's, HD800s's, or even HD800s.  To reduce the risk of confusion and/or typos, can we please just use *HD800* for the old model and *HD800S* for the new model, and avoid the lowercase 's' which suggests plurality?


----------



## FLTWS

toto man said:


> Since the release of the new *HD800S*, I've found it difficult to be certain what headphone folks are referring to in their posts.  e.g. Some refer to the original *HD800* as HD800's or HD800s, while some refer to the new HD800S as HD800S's, HD800s's, or even HD800s.  To reduce the risk of confusion and/or typos, can we please just use *HD800* for the old model and *HD800S* for the new model, and avoid the lowercase 's' which suggests plurality?


 
  
 Your not the only one who is also guessing at which model is being referred to. The consistent naming convention you suggest leaves no doubt as to which version is being talked about.


----------



## GearMe

merrick said:


> I agree that the HD800 with the internal DAC of the Joti are a bad pairing. I've heard that combo myself and found it painful. I cannot say how the HD800 might sound with the Jot if you were using a different DAC, nor how it might sound if you were using an HD800S or a modded HD800.


I would also like to know this...especially if someone is using a Gen 1 HD800 with the Jot and a Bimby or even the Multibit Modi


----------



## NikonGuy

..


----------



## Ancipital

gearme said:


> I would also like to know this...especially if someone is using a Gen 1 HD800 with the Jot and a Bimby or even the Multibit Modi


 
  
 I had a chance to plug some HD800 into my Jot, and I didn't even dare, I'd have been bleeding from the ears and face.
  
 I did plug in some HD800S, and fed it from a Mojo, and that was a tad bright (even though the Mojo has a pretty relaxed sound compared to my Mimby) but not unpleasant. The characteristic giant soundstage was there, the London Philharmonic Orchestra sounded as large and distinct as you'd expect. I could live with that- though maybe someone who is normally treble sensitive would find it a bit intense, and need to EQ it a bit. I don't think the Jot would be my first choice of amp to buy on purpose _for _an HD800S, but I didn't hate the pairing and could probably live with it.
  
 The owner of the HD800/HD800S that I was hogging actually laughed at my unwillingness to plug the HD800 in, and agreed that it might be a bit much. Maybe a heavily modded HD800 would be OK, but I simply haven't had the chance to listen to one of those through my Jot. I'd still be clenching my buttocks a bit as I brought the volume up, I expect.
  
 So far, my favourite way to use the Jot is optical into Modi Multibit, connected SE into Jot, and then stock HD650 balanced out of the Jot. It's a ballsy, detailed sound that is honestly rather great for the money, and very easy to listen to.
  
 I can only speculate wildly that the balanced Schiit multibits would sound a tiny bit cleaner and clearer as you go up the range. I'd love to plug a Yggy in and compare. I think folks who have plugged in some of the bigger multibit DACs have already reported in, though, saying good things- both on Head-Fi and elsewhere.


----------



## XERO1

nikonguy said:


> Give this ago, there is a free 21 day trial.
> 
> http://sonarworks.com/headphones/overview/
> 
> I am using it with JRiver & my HD650's and it is exceptional, I now have sub bass!


 
  
 And audible distortion at higher SPLs.


----------



## NikonGuy

..


----------



## MWSVette

gearme said:


> I would also like to know this...especially if someone is using a Gen 1 HD800 with the Jot and a Bimby or even the Multibit Modi


 
  
 I have the Jot/Bimby/HD800(low serial #) w/Moon Audio Black Dragon cables in both balanced and single ended cables.
  
 Contrary to some others I like the pairing.  That said the combination is extremely transparent and detailed.  On poor recordings the sound signature can be harsh.  But on well engineered, before the loudness war era recordings the combination can be sublime.  Of all of my headphones the HD800 are the pickiest regarding the entire sound chain.  However this is not news to anyone who owns them. 
  
 So to my mind is the Jot the very best pairing for the HD800, no.   Are they make your ears bleed terrible, sound so bad you will not even plug them in, no.  Do some other cans consistently sound better ie HD600, TH-X00 HE-500, yes but that is because they are generally more forgiving than the HD800 to begin with.
  
 Keep in mind I am not as young as I used to be and may now be more tolerant of the highs that others find so troubling. And of course IMHO,YMMV, yada,yada ect...


----------



## lenroot77

xero1 said:


> And audible distortion at higher SPLs.




Have u tried the software yourself or are u making assumptions? There are more than a few of "technical/ reputable" headfi users who have given this software a thumbs up. I thought it was worth a look upon their critiques and gave the trial a go.

I made the purchase and personally I think it's great. It turns the hd800 into a daily driver. I enjoy just about everything with the hd800's now. No need to mod or spend extra money on the hd800S's either.


----------



## lenroot77

nikonguy said:


> Give this ago, there is a free 21 day trial.
> 
> http://sonarworks.com/headphones/overview/
> 
> I am using it with JRiver & my HD650's and it is exceptional, I now have sub bass!




I have used Sonarworks on the hd800's, hd650's, K712's and dt990's. Believe it or not while there is a noticeable difference with the Hd650's they show the least "improvement". It's great software but I have to say I really only need the hd800's now cause they give me the sound I enjoy and there's no reason to have several different headphones.

That's why I'm very curious about the Jot as people impressions are that it is very transparent and amplifies what it's given.


----------



## Maxx134

The Jot can make the HD800 hurt your ear, not because of treble, 
But because of dynamic sharp impacts can hit with severity in the dynamics..

Picture a recording of a drummer hit two sticks together..
Or edge of drum with stick.
On louder volumes it will hurt your ear it is such sharp attack.
Bass and signature is powerful overall with Jotun,
 but you still wanna turn up volume on an 800 to hear its bass which is just so quick it's gone just after you percieve it hit you..
Hit & run.
Lol


----------



## ColtMrFire

ancipital said:


> So far, my favourite way to use the Jot is optical into Modi Multibit, connected SE into Jot, and then stock HD650 balanced out of the Jot. It's a ballsy, detailed sound that is honestly rather great for the money, and very easy to listen to.




So the stock 650 sounds good out of the Jot? One of things I keep hearing is modding the 650 is a good idea to get rid of the "veil" and muddiness. My Jot and 650 are on the way and I had planned on modding it.


----------



## ToTo Man

nikonguy said:


> Give this ago, there is a free 21 day trial.
> 
> http://sonarworks.com/headphones/overview/
> 
> I am using it with JRiver & my HD650's and it is exceptional, I now have sub bass!


 
  
 Sorry to go OT again but for software like this to DSP your headphones accurately, as a minimum requirement it must surely need to know what amp you are using (and DAC too if you wanna be really pedantic), as this will impact the headphone's sonic response?  Also no two examples of the same headphone model will sound exactly the same (e.g. I've had three pairs of HD600 and they've all sounded slightly different), so in effect the company is relying on your HD600 sounding the same as the HD600 they tested in their lab (unless of course they've tested multiple units of the same model and taken an average).  In-room loudspeaker correction seems more intuitively accurate to me because you are actually measuring your in-room response with a mic and making a correction based on that measurement, rather than upon assumption.  Still, the headphone DSP will probably be better than no DSP I suppose...
  
 [size=x-small]EDIT - My bad, I see now [/size]they base the DSP on model averages for the cheaper option and offer custom calibrations as the more expensive option.  I wonder if you could also send your amp to them to use for the calibration?


----------



## XERO1

nikonguy said:


> I would think that's headphone dependent, HD650's wont distort at higher SPL's in my tests.


 

 ​My EQ'd HD650 did whenever I played a song that had deep bass.  And it was the drivers that were distorting, not the EQ software clipping the signal, which can be another source of distortion if you don't know what you're doing.
  
 YMMV, of course.


----------



## sheldaze

avip said:


> Can you compare TH-X00 (mahogany if possible, but PH works too) on Magni2U vs Jot?


 
 I had Mahogany - I have now only the Purpleheart. I could likely borrow to try a Mahogany at the next regional meet, but I prefer to listen in quiet while at home. Meet conditions vary so much. I also threw in a brief listen to my HD650 to further explain my position.
  
 The basic difference, TH-X00, Magni2U versus Jot, is like watching a concert, and being closer or further away from the stage. Both amplifiers sound good! But there is just more that you hear through the Jot. There is more around each instrument, as you would expect if you were sitting closer to the stage. There is also more of a perception of the location and direction of each sound. But both amplifiers sound very good.
  
 Compare this to the HD650. Volume knob went up a lot, to play at about the same level as I used for the TH-X00. Clarity went up a lot too - more on that in a moment. I heard the same kind of better separation and nuance to each instrument. Listening to some Dire Straits, I could better picture the fretting and pick strike on the guitar strings. But something else happened. I simply _wanted_ to listen to the Jot and not so much to the Magni2U. The sound was cleaner, in an electrical sense - less dirty. It was not just clearer, but more enjoyable on the Jot. This is what I meant by my earlier post, that if your headphone swings a little more current or voltage, I think the jump to Jot is even more.
  
 Back to the clarity? Yeah, I wish sometimes I knew much more about the electrical circuits in these amplifiers. The TH-X00, to my ears, is not a super dark headphone. But it depends. I fell in love with the Mahogany on a Grace Design m9xx. I fell in love again, more recently with the Purpleheart on a Moon NEO 230HAD, and most recently on a DNA Sonett 2. Yes, I'm comparing Jodie to amplifiers costing around $1.5K. I already compared it to Rag, and personally picked the Jot. It was the inner details of the music that I heard more of, why I switched to the Jot. But this comparison was made using HD650 and HE1K headphones. Now using the TH-X00, the sound seems a little dark on both M2U and Jot. It is not dark on my Moon or Sonett. I cannot tell you the engineering reason why - it just is, the way I hear it. My opinion - nothing more. The more chances I get to drive other easy headphones, the more I'll be able to comment.
  
 The short answer to your question - TH-X00, where do you want to sit in the theater? More up front, or more towards the back?


----------



## earnmyturns

tekkster said:


> Since the jot arrived, i pulled thme out to try, and some of the instruments were piercing....finally, found the word i want to use.
> 
> I tried from jriver-usb jot dac-hd800, jriver-usb mojo-se jot-hd800, and jriver-optical mojo-se jot-hd800. These three setups all give me a headache on some songs with high instruments.


 
 Given that you varied the DAC, it looks like it might more from the Jot-HD800 combo rather than the DAC. For contrast, I've been listening to Bimby>Jot>Ether C Flows since I got the Jot up to 8h/day (when I had some focused work and stayed in my home office rather than the usual rounds of meetings at work), no headaches or other tiredness. I listen mainly to jazz, classical Baroque, West African, and Persian/Turkish/North African with strings ranging from low double bass to highs plucked kora (West African harp). Right now listening to the wonderful "Musique de Nuit" and "Chamber Music" albums by Ballaké Sissoko (kora) and Vicent Segal (double bass). The higher kora notes are really clear but not piercing at all, and the deep bass from the double bass is strong but not overwhelming. In contrast, I used to find Asgard 2>Alpha Primes good but eventually tiring after several hours, so I'd go listen to my speaker system in the living room. Now it's if anything the other way round. The varying behavior of these different components in different combinations is what makes this hobby both enticing and frustrating (not to mention so potentially expensive) 
 Attached, spectral report via MusicScope of a typical track (kora, double bass, and balafon), showing quite a bit of energy between 3kHz and 10kHz.


----------



## Ancipital

coltmrfire said:


> So the stock 650 sounds good out of the Jot? One of things I keep hearing is modding the 650 is a good idea to get rid of the "veil" and muddiness. My Jot and 650 are on the way and I had planned on modding it.


 
  
 You have to remember that "good" is a very personal and nebulous thing; it differs from one person to another.
  
 Part of it will be what condition your ears are in, how well you can hear highs. Part of it will be which music you tend to enjoy. Part of it will be psycho-acoustic, what your brain is used to listening to and "filtering". Part of it is.. taste.
  
 It's worth remembering that the HD650 are a re-tuning of the HD600, more or less. The HD600 are fairly analytical, and while people bravely talk about how they want a flat, neutral response, often they don't really. Sennheiser added a lift to the bass and smoothed off some of the highs, to make a more "musical" or "enjoyable" sound:
  

 People who really do like a flattish frequency response might not enjoy this. There's a bunch of mods that you can do (Dynamat, cutting a hole in the foam, pulling the plastic spider out etc.). People who fret about the HD650 sounding "veiled" think that these mods make it sound clearer and maybe even faster- at the expense of some clarity in the mid-bass. It's a tradeoff. However, as a way to make a sort of "mini 800S", it's pretty clever.
  
 Me, I love the sound of the HD650. It's like listening to _hygge_. There's plenty of detail, with a detailed chain- Mimby and Jotunheim provide that for me. Tons of micro-detail, and a snappy well-controlled bass. If I find a downside, it's that it's not so much "sorry about your wallet" as "sorry about your missing hours of sleep", as I lose track of the time, or get a serious case of "just until the end of this album".
  
 So yes, to me, unmodded HD650 balanced out of the Jot sounds _good_, it's a really enjoyable combo. Were I to feel a modding itch, I'd actually get a second pair, just because it'd be nice to be sure of having the option to get this sound, no matter what went wrong/right with the modding. Are my HD650 as resolving and is the sound stage as big as the HD800S? Nope, but then few things are- they're extremely good.
  
 Is it a musical, detailed and thoroughly fun listen? Hell yes.


----------



## YtseJamer

coltmrfire said:


> So the stock 650 sounds good out of the Jot? One of things I keep hearing is modding the 650 is a good idea to get rid of the "veil" and muddiness. My Jot and 650 are on the way and I had planned on modding it.




The stock HD650 is very good with the Jot. Don't mod them if the Jot is your main amp.


----------



## tekkster

nikonguy said:


> Give this ago, there is a free 21 day trial.
> 
> http://sonarworks.com/headphones/overview/
> 
> I am using it with JRiver & my HD650's and it is exceptional, I now have sub bass!


 

 Thanks.  Will do.


----------



## nedifer

ancipital said:


> Me, I love the sound of the HD650. It's like listening to _hygge_.


 
  
 First reference to hygge I've seen on Head-Fi.  Curiously appropriate for commenting on products with a Nordic naming convention?
  
 For those who aren't familiar:
  
 Hunting for hygge, a new ingredient in Denmark’s recipe for happiness
 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/04/hunting-for-hygge-a-new-ingredient-in-denmarks-recipe-for-happiness
  
 (though hygge is nothing new in Denmark...)  And a contrarian view:
  
 Hygge – why the craze for Danish cosiness is based on a myth
 https://www.theguardian.com/world/shortcuts/2016/sep/04/hygge-denmark-danes-cosiness-wealth-antidepressants-scandinavians
  
 Neither article, though, really gets to the heart of the matter.  Hygge simply doesn't have an accurate translation into other languages and, while celebrating it, Danes will also tongue in cheek refer to the tyranny of hygge.
  
 [Sorry, I digress..]


----------



## tekkster

earnmyturns said:


> Given that you varied the DAC, it looks like it might more from the Jot-HD800 combo rather than the DAC. For contrast, I've been listening to Bimby>Jot>Ether C Flows since I got the Jot up to 8h/day (when I had some focused work and stayed in my home office rather than the usual rounds of meetings at work), no headaches or other tiredness. I listen mainly to jazz, classical Baroque, West African, and Persian/Turkish/North African with strings ranging from low double bass to highs plucked kora (West African harp). Right now listening to the wonderful "Musique de Nuit" and "Chamber Music" albums by Ballaké Sissoko (kora) and Vicent Segal (double bass). The higher kora notes are really clear but not piercing at all, and the deep bass from the double bass is strong but not overwhelming. In contrast, I used to find Asgard 2>Alpha Primes good but eventually tiring after several hours, so I'd go listen to my speaker system in the living room. Now it's if anything the other way round. The varying behavior of these different components in different combinations is what makes this hobby both enticing and frustrating (not to mention so potentially expensive)
> Attached, spectral report via MusicScope of a typical track (kora, double bass, and balafon), showing quite a bit of energy between 3kHz and 10kHz.


 

 Thanks.  I've just been reading about Ether C Flows since you mentioned them on this thread a while back (as well as looking up other headphones I'm learning about in this same thread).  Yet something else to look into.

 Though someone mentioned in this thread that Grados might be a perfect fit for my current preferences, and it reminded me that I have a really old pair of Grados somewhere, probably where the at w2002's are.  Can't remember the model, but it was not SRXX and doesn't seem to be part of any Grado product families out right now because PSXX and GXX also don't sound right.  I wonder if those old headphones would work, and also wonder if those old headphones would similarly be good with low volume lazz listening as current Grados are.  I have this vague recollection that I preferred louder headphones back then, and was not that impressed with the Grados.  Given how my preferences have changed, must look into current Grados too.

 "Enticing and frustrating"  hahaha.  I'm not there yet, being so new back into looking at audio gear, but can imagine it becoming so one day, sooner rather than later.


----------



## earnmyturns

earnmyturns said:


> In defense of my living room setup, soundstage is way better (but that's to be expected relative to even the best closed headphones, I guess), and noise floor is lower (not that it is high in my headphone setup). But I could imagine moving from the C7R to a multibit DAC + beefier, edgier amp (something like this, or new 2-channel goodies from Schiit). I just feel that some well-recorded music, especially Baroque strings, jazz sax and double bass, seems to be slightly smoothed with very fine sandpaper on living room system relative to the headphone system, which conveys the finer details of instrument tone, especially the "roughness" of bow on strings, of double bass strings being released, and of airflow in the sax, especially around the reed.


 
 Follow up: listened to the same awesome "Chamber Music" album by Ballaké Sissolo and Vincent Segal on my two systems in close succession. Well-recorded CD converted to FLAC with XLD. It's kind of a depth vs breadth difference: headphone setup gets more of the subtle resonances among different string harmonics and the fingering, speaker setup shows more space and longer decays. I can't say I prefer one to the other, different experiences, headphones more intimate and speakers more stately. Which, given that the speaker system cost almost 5x the headphone system (leaving out cost of digital sources), it's quite an achievement for Schiit and MrSpeakers.


----------



## bavinck

Anyone tried an he6 yet? In balanced it should drive them well on paper.


----------



## JLoud

avip said:


> sheldaze said:
> 
> 
> > There is nothing particularly wrong with keeping the M2U - it's a solid, entry amplifier capable of running with a diverse set of headphones. I would suggest the Jot if you think your headphones can utilize its additional power and extra clarity. I would base the decision more on the headphones than the resale value. Also note that M2U may hide certain things (think - easier to listen to). I was listening to the Jot earlier today, and just found I could not read or do anything else. I could not concentrate on a secondary task, other than listening. It was quite demanding of my attention!
> ...


 

 I have the mahogany X-00 and the Jotunheim and Magni 2.  I would say the bass is better controlled and a little deeper (if that is possible) on the Jot. Also more detail in the midrange on the Jot.  I really like the Jot, Magni 2 is a nice amp but the Jot is clearly better all around in my opinion.


----------



## Clemmaster

Alright now Schiit please make a Jot for Hd-600 like headphones <3


----------



## bavinck

clemmaster said:


> Alright now Schiit please make a Jot for Hd-600 like headphones <3




Never found the 600 picky. I liked it on hybrid amps like garage 1217 stuff.


----------



## Clemmaster

Let me rephrase: Schiit please make a warmer Jot!


----------



## ColtMrFire

You can probably use a tube preamp if you want a SS amp warmer. Or use a warm sounding DAC.


----------



## XERO1

clemmaster said:


> Let me rephrase: Schiit please make a warmer Jot!


 
  


coltmrfire said:


> You can probably use a tube preamp if you want a SS amp warmer. Or use a warm sounding DAC.


 

 ​PS Audio DACs are known for their warmer SQ and start with the $1299 NuWave DSD.
  
 http://www.psaudio.com/products/nuwave-dsd/
  
 http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2015/10/ps-audio-nuwave-dsd-dac-review/


----------



## cthomas

Hey guys, if you order the jot with the DAC does it have optical input?


----------



## Vigrith

cthomas said:


> Hey guys, if you order the jot with the DAC does it have optical input?


 
  
 USB only.


----------



## cthomas

vigrith said:


> USB only.




Thanks, I guess the modi uber would be needed for optical option.

Edit: is the multibit option worth it?


----------



## iamxLn

cthomas said:


> Thanks, I guess the modi uber would be needed for optical option.
> 
> Edit: is the multibit option worth it?


 
 i had the regular modi 1 for 3 years, and recently received my multibit, i figured for 250, why not, right? the difference was worth it for me. what everyone else says is true, it just sounds more natural.


----------



## cthomas

iamxln said:


> i had the regular modi 1 for 3 years, and recently received my multibit, i figured for 250, why not, right? the difference was worth it for me. what everyone else says is true, it just sounds more natural.




Yeah I'm just planning ahead at the moment, schiit costs a bit more in Australia. Trying to decide if I want the jot without dac because I like to hook up my PS4 via Optical. 

Im also looking at buying a portable amp/DAC like the Sony pha-3 as on the go option since it has Optical and balanced. Then I could just use that as the DAC with the Jot. Maybe buy the bifrost somewhere in future. Decisions decisions


----------



## slex

Just bought a jotunheim. Waiting for dacbalium, half the price of gumby, possible?


----------



## Kcharng

Would those with Jotunheim share their experience with Planar headphones like Mr.Speakers Ethers, Audeze LCD2 or Hifiman HE560?
  
 The power delivery of the balance output of the jotunheim would be ideal to drive the planar magnetic headphone.
  
 In this thread I read it here and there that it could drive them, but how does it sound?
  
 Thank you!


----------



## rollinbr

cthomas said:


> I know I'm probably getting ahead of myself here... But are expensive cables needed for balanced?


 
  
  


coltmrfire said:


> No.


 
  
 https://www.amazon.com/Balanced-Hi-end-Headphone-Upgrade-Sennheiser/dp/B00ZBOYY9S/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1474796411&sr=8-9&keywords=balanced+cable+hd800
  
 https://www.amazon.com/Balanced-Hi-end-Headphone-Upgrade-Sennheiser/dp/B00ZBP5ZRW/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1474796411&sr=8-8&keywords=balanced+cable+hd800
  
 https://www.amazon.com/Balanced-Silver-Headphone-Upgrade-Sennheiser/dp/B00WRDAEJA/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1474796411&sr=8-4&keywords=balanced+cable+hd800
  
 The seller is in China. I've bought 3 different adapters - XLR-TRS, XLR-TRRS and XLR-6.3mm from him with no issues.


----------



## cthomas

Those look real nice, so copper is warmer and silver brighter or so I've heard.


----------



## AviP

rollinbr said:


> https://www.amazon.com/Balanced-Hi-end-Headphone-Upgrade-Sennheiser/dp/B00ZBOYY9S/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1474796411&sr=8-9&keywords=balanced+cable+hd800
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Balanced-Hi-end-Headphone-Upgrade-Sennheiser/dp/B00ZBP5ZRW/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1474796411&sr=8-8&keywords=balanced+cable+hd800
> 
> ...


 
 I guess "expensive" is relative...


----------



## rollinbr

avip said:


> I guess "expensive" is relative...


 
  
 http://www.norneaudio.com/litzheim/Norne-Audio-Pure-Silver-occ-litz-ohno-continuous-cast-ciem-iem-replacement-cable-cotton-type-4-shure-mmcx-2-pin-eidolic-westone-jh-audio-aurisonics-1964-ears-custom
  
 https://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-CH-Silver-Plated-Headphone/dp/B00H8AEZCO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1474802030&sr=8-1&keywords=sennheiser+balanced+cable+hd800
  
 And they can go a lot higher!!! So yes "expensive" is relative............. Check out the Kimber Kable - Axios for a higher priced cable.


----------



## Ancipital

cthomas said:


> Thanks, I guess the modi uber would be needed for optical option.
> 
> Edit: is the multibit option worth it?


 
  
 "Worth it" is a judgement call- but it's a really nice DAC. If you're going all the way to an Uber for the connectivity, it's probably easy to talk yourself into the Multibit.
  
 I had a tiny bit of buyer's remorse when I ordered mine, as it seemed an extravagance (I also own a Mojo). For what it's worth, that soon evaporated when I got it settled in. It's a very detailed and pleasant DAC, without any of the harshness that you can sometimes get with some delta/sigma DACs. For the price, it's a really nice deal- you'd be hard-pressed to come anywhere near it without spending a lot more.
  
 Moreover, single-ended into the Jotenheim, it really does _not_ suck.


----------



## cthomas

I'm actually considering a pha-3 which does balanced. I've owned one before.but had to sell it as I needed the cash but I do miss having a portable. At least I could run balanced into the jot if I go down that road too. And I already have a balanced cable for my SE846 so that's a bonus... The difference through balanced was staggering!


----------



## Ancipital

cthomas said:


> I'm actually considering a pha-3 which does balanced. I've owned one before.but had to sell it as I needed the cash but I do miss having a portable. At least I could run balanced into the jot if I go down that road too. And I already have a balanced cable for my SE846 so that's a bonus... The difference through balanced was staggering!


 
  
 Bear in mind that the reported differences of going balanced in to the Jot may well be smaller than the difference you'd hear with a better DAC in SE. I guess if you like the Sony and secretly want it for the transportability, that's a reason to go for it though, it's your money!
  
 Do bear in mind that a Bifrost multibit going in SE to the Jot may well do more for you, though, if you're more slanted towards making your desktop rig sound good. Maybe try to give some things a listen before pulling the trigger? I obviously can't guess your priorities, and it's you who needs to be happy with it.
  
 (If you can actually get hold of one, some of the LH Labs Geek Out models will do mobile balanced too, and people seem to love them.. but I've never heard one, they seem to be hell to find.)


----------



## rsnblmn

ancipital said:


> Do bear in mind that a Bifrost multibit going in SE to the Jot may well do more for you, though, if you're more slanted towards making your desktop rig sound good.


 
  
 I can confirm that the Bimby SE > Jot is an excellent pairing. I've found that the transparency of the Jot really makes me appreciate how good the Bimby is.
  
 I'm not convinced there's much inherent sound quality advantage to balanced *input* on the Jot. To me, it seems like the main advantage is on the balanced *output* of the Jot, in cases where you have headphones that will benefit from the increased power. And in that case, there's no reason you can't use a SE input to drive the balanced output.


----------



## Ancipital

rsnblmn said:


> I can confirm that the Bimby SE > Jot is an excellent pairing. I've found that the transparency of the Jot really makes me appreciate how good the Bimby is.
> 
> I'm not convinced there's much inherent sound quality advantage to balanced *input* on the Jot. To me, it seems like the main advantage is on the balanced *output* of the Jot, in cases where you have headphones that will benefit from the increased power. And in that case, there's no reason you can't use a SE input to drive the balanced output.


 
  
 You're more or less right, I think. For what it's worth, atomicbob did his usual very thorough job of measuring the Jot, and commented that balanced in measured slightly better in several ways than SE in, and ditto balanced out. However, he did emphasise that in all cases, SE was close and still a very good option- the executive summary was that the more balanced that you used, the better, but any of the four possible permutations would work surprisingly well.
  
 Because the Jot doesn't cheap out like certain other amps (we must not anger the sponsors!), you don't really lose out too much going SE into it- you'll still get great performance. I'm glad of that, personally, as it means I don't feel like I'm missing out too much with my SE-out DAC.


----------



## Allanmarcus

cthomas said:


> Hey guys, hoping for some advice... Currently own the HD800's and the only amp/DAC I own is the Sony UDA-1. Mist of my music (except for classical or jazz) sounds thin/harsh no bass etc etc. Is the jot solving these problems with the 800 or should I just sell them and buy a hd650?
> 
> Cheers.


 

 I have a UDA-1 and a modded (SDR) HD800. I don't agree with your assessment as I think the HD800 sounds fine with this combo, but not as good as I have heard the HD800 with say a my Liquid Carbon or my BottleHead crack. The differences are subtle, but better. If you can, you might look into mods for the HD800. The SuperDupont Resonator is easy and cheap. Read about it hear:
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/sennheiser-hd-800-s-tweaked-and-delightfuland-french-diy-response
  
 The UDA-1 is a very smooth DAC/Amp. In my opinion, too smooth. I'm hoping the Jodie as the amp and the UDA-1 as the DAC will breath some life in the HD800. 
  
 If the HD800 has too much treble for you with the UDA-1 then you should mod it, or sell it and get a warmer set of cans. Possible an HD600 or HD650 or maybe an Elear. You won't find too many DACs warmer/smoother than the UDA-1 to tame the treble peak.


----------



## AviP

So how long until we see a cheaper SE only jot in a magni sized chassis with a wall wart?


----------



## ColtMrFire

I thought the whole point of the Jotunheim was ultimate flexibilty in a desktop amp, with the modules and SE/BAL configurations. Making it the size of a Magni would defeat that purpose. They would probably simply call it another name if they made a smaller version.


----------



## Allanmarcus

coltmrfire said:


> I thought the whole point of the Jotunheim was ultimate flexibilty in a desktop amp, with the modules and SE/BAL configurations. Making it the size of a Magni would defeat that purpose. They would probably simply call it another name if they made a smaller version.


 

 I think he meant the amp technology that is used in the Jodie being repurposed in the Magni form factor as an amp only.
  
 I imagine we will see more stuff from Schist using the tech found in the Jodie. Let's see what they announce in a few weeks at RMAF and we might learn more.


----------



## AviP

allanmarcus said:


> I think he meant the amp technology that is used in the Jodie being repurposed in the Magni form factor as an amp only.



That's exactly what I meant


----------



## MWSVette

allanmarcus said:


> I think he meant the amp technology that is used in the Jodie being repurposed in the Magni form factor as an amp only.
> 
> I imagine we will see more stuff from Schist using the tech found in the Jodie. Let's see what they announce in a few weeks at RMAF and we might learn more.


 
 Pivot point topology in a Magni Uber 2 Aluminum case...
  
 That would be cool...


----------



## Ancipital

mwsvette said:


> Pivot point topology in a Magni Uber 2 Aluminum case...
> 
> That would be cool...


 
  
 A balanced multibit DAC that stacks neatly with the Jotenheim would also win a lot of friends, mind.


----------



## MWSVette

ancipital said:


> A balanced multibit DAC that stacks neatly with the Jotenheim would also win a lot of friends, mind.


 
 Starting with me.  I would sell the Bimby and buy one...


----------



## MattTCG

ancipital said:


> A balanced multibit DAC that stacks neatly with the Jotenheim would also win a lot of friends, mind.


 
  
 OR....instead of downsizing the chassis, upsize it to match the Gumby. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  That way there will be "room" to add a MB for those who want an all in one solution also.


----------



## lenroot77

matttcg said:


> OR....instead of downsizing the chassis, upsize it to match the Gumby. :wink_face:   That way there will be "room" to add a MB for those who want an all in one solution also.




This!


----------



## Ancipital

Or, you know, both. Priced well, I could see either idea working. I have to say though, a nice Jot-sized balanced multibit would fit into my life so painlessly that it's crazy, I wouldn't even have to tidy my desk


----------



## MWSVette

matttcg said:


> OR....instead of downsizing the chassis, upsize it to match the Gumby.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  


lenroot77 said:


> This!


 
 While I would really like Gumby/MJ2 combo the form factor would not work for me.  If it did that would be my setup.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But I bet many folks would like a MJ2 size Jotuheim type amp.  With room in the case for multiple add on cards and Multibit.
  
 Of course Schiit could do both...


----------



## Vigrith

matttcg said:


> OR....instead of downsizing the chassis, upsize it to match the Gumby.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Oh that'd be on like Donkey Kong, I'd easily pay for that. I have plenty of space on my desks and a Gungnir/MJ2 sized Jotunheim with room to add more cool modules like the MB integrated DAC would be a perfect addition for home usage (already have a DAC Jotunheim office-bound for work usage).


----------



## Ancipital

Oh dear, it does rather sound like shooting fish in a barrel, Schiit have a lot of options- and doubtless lots up their sleeves. They have been sitting on this topology for _years_, after all- I'm sure that when they drop the other shoe, it'll be impressive.
  
 It's annoying to be a blatant fan, but while they're knocking out such good price/performance gear, it's hard not to be. Between their new topology and competitive multibit DAC pricing, they're looking hard to beat in a lot of the more affordable segments. I do wonder when/if the competition will be able to come up with a decent answer.


----------



## madwolfa

matttcg said:


> OR....instead of downsizing the chassis, upsize it to match the Gumby.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I don't need anything larger than Bifrost, so that wouldn't fly with me.


----------



## tunes

Has anyone compared the Jot to the ifi micro ican SE in terms of powering the HiFi man HE 1000?


----------



## earnmyturns

kcharng said:


> Would those with Jotunheim share their experience with Planar headphones like Mr.Speakers Ethers, Audeze LCD2 or Hifiman HE560?
> 
> The power delivery of the balance output of the jotunheim would be ideal to drive the planar magnetic headphone.
> 
> ...


 
 Excellent with Ether C Flows. Full-bodied bass, precise mids, clean, fast highs. Good instrument separation, although on a relatively tight soundstage (likely from closed C Flows). I can listen for full days without getting tired.


----------



## franzdom

So very tempted, I want to play with you guys but...I love tubes
 Ordered Mjolnir today so I could try all balanced. Will likely end up with Jotunheim as well some day for comparison.


----------



## earnmyturns

ancipital said:


> You're more or less right, I think. For what it's worth, atomicbob did his usual very thorough job of measuring the Jot, and commented that balanced in measured slightly better in several ways than SE in, and ditto balanced out. However, he did emphasise that in all cases, SE was close and still a very good option- the executive summary was that the more balanced that you used, the better, but any of the four possible permutations would work surprisingly well.


 
 Looked for atomicbob's Jot measurements on head-fi and could not find them, somewhere else?


----------



## showme99

matttcg said:


> OR....instead of downsizing the chassis, upsize it to match the Gumby.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I thought the Ragnarok already fulfilled this role (at least as far as size is concerned)?  Plus, it has a much higher power output than the Jotunheim.  Am I missing something here?
  
  
 P.S. This is not a knock against the Jotunheim.  I own a Jotunheim myself (along with a Modi MB and HD600 headphones).  I am enjoying it VERY MUCH.


----------



## franzdom

How does Rag compare to Jot?


----------



## jimmers

earnmyturns said:


> Looked for atomicbob's Jot measurements on head-fi and could not find them, somewhere else?


 
 You could try using GOOGLE 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Type in "atomicbob jotunheim" and see what comes up


----------



## earnmyturns

jimmers said:


> You could try using GOOGLE
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Duh. I assumed the OP was referring to a non-public communication, didn't realize how many audio forums were out there


----------



## mbusby

franzdom said:


> How does Rag compare to Jot?


 
  
 According to Schiit, the Rag can melt your headphones into slag.


----------



## Jazz1

Would the Magni and Modi Ubers be any way comparable to the Jot?


----------



## Ancipital

jazz1 said:


> Would the Magni and Modi Ubers be any way comparable to the Jot?


 
  
 Read back in this giant thread a bit, the question has been asked and answered over and again. Executive summary, the Jotenheim is markedly superior to even the Magni 2 Uber. You wouldn't even need to be a particularly gifted listener to hear the difference quickly.


----------



## Jazz1

Thanks!


----------



## Ancipital

No worries. If you want my rambling take on it, coming from a Magni, you could take a look at:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/schiit-audio-jotunheim/reviews/16839


----------



## cthomas

allanmarcus said:


> I have a UDA-1 and a modded (SDR) HD800. I don't agree with your assessment as I think the HD800 sounds fine with this combo, but not as good as I have heard the HD800 with say a my Liquid Carbon or my BottleHead crack. The differences are subtle, but better. If you can, you might look into mods for the HD800. The [COLOR=333333]SuperDupont Resonator[/COLOR] is easy and cheap. Read about it hear:
> 
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/sennheiser-hd-800-s-tweaked-and-delightfuland-french-diy-response
> 
> ...




Thanks for the advice. I'm guessing the HD800 is just not for me, I do love it with older recordings... Bill Withers, Aretha Franklin etc and Jazz/classical but I only listen to these genres about 20% of the time. I'm gonna take my amp to the place that sells the hd650. It's a hassle but the only way I'll know for sure.

Cheers.


----------



## cthomas

...and they're out of stock for the next 2 weeks, just my luck! Any chance you've heard hd650 with the uda1??


----------



## cishida

clemmaster said:


> Alright now Schiit please make a Jot for Hd-600 like headphones <3




Don't agree with this necessarily. I think the HD 600 sounds great with the jot / bimby.


----------



## ColtMrFire

cthomas said:


> ...and they're out of stock for the next 2 weeks, just my luck! Any chance you've heard hd650 with the uda1??




Says 5-7 day wait on the website.


----------



## franzdom

coltmrfire said:


> Says 5-7 day wait on the website.


 
  
 I think he was talking about his local's stock of HD-650.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Ohh.


----------



## MWSVette

cishida said:


> Don't agree with this necessarily. I think the HD 600 sounds great with the jot / bimby.


 
 Me too...


----------



## Clemmaster

I meant for those with ears with good treble sensitivity: the Jot is too much with brighter headphones.


----------



## NikonGuy

..


----------



## Ancipital

nikonguy said:


> Just had confirmation that my Jot will be with me in 12 hours! Happy days!


 
  
 I hope that you've cleared a little spot for it, and laid out the red carpet, uh, cables, ready 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 More seriously, after the recently hypenado, I hope that you enjoy listening to the thing- after all is said and done, it's a very solid, powerful and clean little balanced SS amp.


----------



## Andrew Rieger

Oh man, I had my heart set on a Rupert Neve RNHP but now I don't know. Has anyone tried both of them? This always happens. I'm just about to pull the trigger on a product and something else comes along that totally messes up my plans. The Schiit is $100 less without the DAC so I feel like I might lean towards the Jotunheim but I don't know, the RNHP seems like something really special as well.


----------



## Mediahound

andrew rieger said:


> Oh man, I had my heart set on a Rupert Neve RNHP but now I don't know. Has anyone tried both of them? This always happens. I'm just about to pull the trigger on a product and something else comes along that totally messes up my plans.


 

 I'd go for the Jot. More power and has single-ended as well as balanced headphone outs. the RNHP only has single ended out yet it has balanced and single-ended ins. Not sure what they were thinking.


----------



## Andrew Rieger

mediahound said:


> I'd go for the Jot. More power and has single-ended as well as balanced headphone outs. the RNHP only has single ended out yet it has balanced and single-ended ins. Not sure what they were thinking.


 

 I get that but Jude selected the RNHP out of all the available amps on the market to conduct his headphone measurements going forward which is a huge endorsement if you ask me. But I agree that the Jot seems like a better buy on paper. It seems like there is something really special going on with the RNHP sound quality wise though. Still a really tough choice.


----------



## Mediahound

andrew rieger said:


> I get that but Jude selected the RNHP out of all the available amps on the market to conduct his headphone measurements going forward which is a huge endorsement if you ask me. But I agree that the Jot seems like a better buy on paper. It seems like there is something really special going on with the RNHP sound quality wise though. Still a really tough choice.


 

 I don't think he selected it due to the sound quality in terms of listening enjoyment, but rather for how flat and neutral the sound is.


----------



## Andrew Rieger

Not a direct quote but Jude said something like "The RNHP sounds so good that we bought a second one just to listen to music with." Anyways, please someone test these side by side.


----------



## JLoud

kcharng said:


> Would those with Jotunheim share their experience with Planar headphones like Mr.Speakers Ethers, Audeze LCD2 or Hifiman HE560?
> 
> The power delivery of the balance output of the jotunheim would be ideal to drive the planar magnetic headphone.
> 
> ...


 
 I have the HE 560. I thought the balanced output really improved the 560.  They just feel crisper.  Tighter bass that goes a little deeper as well.  They really benefit from the extra power.


----------



## Mediahound

andrew rieger said:


> Not a direct quote but Jude said something like "The RNHP sounds so good that we bought a second one just to listen to music with." Anyways, please someone test these side by side.


 

 Nope, sounds like he based it mostly if not solely on how it measured:
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5prY3Blbbyw&feature=youtu.be&t=8m55s


----------



## Andrew Rieger

mediahound said:


> Nope, sounds like he based it mostly if not solely on how it measured:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5prY3Blbbyw&feature=youtu.be&t=8m55s


 

 Don't want to argue, he did say they bought a second one just for music listening but yes, the endorsement is most likely because of how well it measures. Ultimately, I will probably get the Jot just because its $100 cheaper. I'm on a budget so I can't really excuse spending an additional $100 for an amp that has less flexibility / features with most likely an almost imperceptible difference in sound quality. 
  
 Now comes the DAC question. Do I keep my Teac UD301 with its pretty darn good sounding (IMO) dual Burr Brown 1795's and have a balanced DAC to go with my balanced Jot  ... OR ... do I sell the Teac and get into multibit with the Modi but lose the ability to do balanced headphones? More decisions to drive me nuts.


----------



## franzdom

You don't lose the ability to do balanced headphones with the Jot.


----------



## Andrew Rieger

franzdom said:


> You don't lose the ability to do balanced headphones with the Jot.


 

 Not what I said ... Please correct me if I'm wrong. The Jot with the built in DAC module can do balanced headphones but if you go for the model without the DAC, you would need to feed the Jot with a balanced DAC like the UD301. Am I correct in understanding that the Modi Multi could only do SE headphones if it was feeding the Jot?


----------



## jfoxvol

I finally got the power problems solved in home system. One ground loop and a bad ups smps later, everything is as it should be. The Jot will replace the Ragnarok for headphones. The Ragnarok is still fantastic and drives speakers with a clarity few other power amps I know can. It is fantastic for headphones but for my tastes, I think the Jot might just edge it out in some cases, one being price. I left the Jot at work for a week and rocked with my modi mb. Just sublime. So happy yet clear and inviting. With they Yggdrasil and the Bryston BDP, it is a definite step up. I can't actually listen while I work from home because it sounds too good and I can't focus on work. All the initial harshness I was worried about is gone since I fixed my chain. This one is staying. I haven't tried the phono card yet. I'll try with my buddy's phono system when I get a chance maybe next week. So, this is now my new home system. I'm gonna start selling off my other amps.


----------



## franzdom

andrew rieger said:


> Not what I said ... Please correct me if I'm wrong. The Jot with the built in DAC module can do balanced headphones but if you go for the model without the DAC, you would need to feed the Jot with a balanced DAC like the UD301. Am I correct in understanding that the Modi Multi could only do SE headphones if it was feeding the Jot?




Yes you are wrong, you can feed in either amp input and use either amp output.


----------



## jfoxvol

andrew rieger said:


> Not what I said ... Please correct me if I'm wrong. The Jot with the built in DAC module can do balanced headphones but if you go for the model without the DAC, you would need to feed the Jot with a balanced DAC like the UD301. Am I correct in understanding that the Modi Multi could only do SE headphones if it was feeding the Jot?




The Jot is an inherently balanced amp. The input stage is something new. Normally, one would use a phase splitter on the input signal if single ended. This amp doesn't require that somehow. The amp is still always balanced. The output can be either balanced or single ended, regardless of what the input signal is.


----------



## ColtMrFire

jfoxvol said:


> I finally got the power problems solved in home system. One ground loop and a bad ups smps later, everything is as it should be. The Jot will replace the Ragnarok for headphones. The Ragnarok is still fantastic and drives speakers with a clarity few other power amps I know can. It is fantastic for headphones but for my tastes, I think the Jot might just edge it out in some cases, one being price. I left the Jot at work for a week and rocked with my modi mb. Just sublime. So happy yet clear and inviting. With they Yggdrasil and the Bryston BDP, it is a definite step up. I can't actually listen while I work from home because it sounds too good and I can't focus on work. All the initial harshness I was worried about is gone since I fixed my chain. This one is staying. I haven't tried the phono card yet. I'll try with my buddy's phono system when I get a chance maybe next week. So, this is now my new home system. I'm gonna start selling off my other amps.




What would you say some of the differences are between Mimby and Yggy through the Jot?


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

clemmaster said:


> I meant for those with ears with good treble sensitivity: the Jot is too much with brighter headphones.


 
  
 The HD600 isn't a bright headphone. The Jotunheim pairs beautifully with it. It's one of the few SS amps that bring out the potential in the HD6x0 line, IMO.


----------



## Andrew Rieger

Thats pretty cool. Glad I asked.


----------



## jfoxvol

coltmrfire said:


> What would you say some of the differences are between Mimby and Yggy through the Jot?




No different than the countless other comparisons between the various Multibit DACs. The Mimby and Bimby are happier sounding, as Jason coined it. The Yggy is more warts and all. It's very revealing and will reward better recordings. That's not to say the mimby isn't detailed. I find Multibit DACs to have tremendous phase accuracy which makes spatial cues and imaging better than most DS I have owned.


----------



## NikonGuy

..


----------



## cthomas

franzdom said:


> I think he was talking about his local's stock of HD-650.




Yes, local store is called StoreDJ. It's about 150km+ round trip to audition hd650. If I want to audition a Jot, well that's gonna be a weekend trip for me lol. If you're in NSW around Sydney or even Melbourne which is not that far from Sydney seems you have your pick of places to try hi-end gear. I'm up schiit Creek being in QLD.


----------



## NikonGuy

..


----------



## jimmers

nikonguy said:


> ....
> Amazon's return policy has been a godsend for my headphone purchases.


 
 Not when you live in Australia 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 (and HD650 are much cheaper from the store than from Amazon USA).


----------



## NikonGuy

..


----------



## Ancipital

andrew rieger said:


> Not what I said ... Please correct me if I'm wrong. The Jot with the built in DAC module can do balanced headphones but if you go for the model without the DAC, you would need to feed the Jot with a balanced DAC like the UD301. Am I correct in understanding that the Modi Multi could only do SE headphones if it was feeding the Jot?


 
  
 Nope, you can do SE-SE, SE-BAL, BAL-SE and BAL-BAL with the Jot. It doesn't care- it all works, and works well. The SE is remarkably decent in all cases, but balanced will give you a little more if you use it. That's one of the main things that makes the Jot such a remarkable amp at the price.


----------



## jimmers

nikonguy said:


> Jotunheim delivered, time to play!


 
 Mine due tomorrow


----------



## NikonGuy

..


----------



## Ancipital

nikonguy said:


> I have had some initial issues with hum/noise with my Jot, on high gain and nothing playing with the knob at anything past 1:00 I can hear a noticeable hiss.  This was not present when I used my Magni 2 Uber even if I tuned the volume to max.
> 
> Anyway to cut a long story short I had both USB & Optical connected to my Multibit via my PC, it turns out unplugging the USB from the DAC solved the problem, noise and hum gone!
> 
> The noise / hum was present even with Optical selected on the DAC...


 
  
 Classic electrical noise down the USB cable problems, by the sounds of it- RFI/EMI and maybe some ground loop issues. Try some different sources first, to see if it's just a specific problematic one. Some USB sources are extremely noisy and poorly-behaved, and not everything has massive galvanic isolation on its input. It's annoying!
  
 If all else fails, you can try a decrapifier like the Wyrd, which will completely isolate the DAC's USB in from the USB VBus coming out of the source.


----------



## NikonGuy

..


----------



## Ancipital

nikonguy said:


> I only use Optical so it is not a problem, it is just strange that the Jot picks it up and the Magni does not...


 
  
 Yeah, maybe something to do with the mains connection of both, how the grounding happens? 
  
 <This space deliberately left vague due to ignorance, I don't like to guess>


----------



## NikonGuy

..


----------



## madwolfa

nikonguy said:


> Anyone know what volume pot they use in the Jot?  It feels very nice, even maybe Alps RK27 nice...


 
  
 From the product FAQ: "a big 27mm Alps 4-gang balanced pot".


----------



## NikonGuy

..


----------



## MWSVette

madwolfa said:


> From the product FAQ: "a big 27mm Alps 4-gang balanced pot".


 
 Jason stated in a post that having way too many of these pots from the original MJ1 in stock was the impetus to design the Jotunheim.
  
 I wonder what other parts they may have too many of laying around that Mike or Jason could build a new product around.  The Jotunhiem sure turned out great...


----------



## StanD

nikonguy said:


> I have had some initial issues with hum/noise with my Jot, on high gain and nothing playing with the knob at anything past 1:00 I can hear a noticeable hiss.  This was not present when I used my Magni 2 Uber even if I tuned the volume to max.
> 
> Anyway to cut a long story short I had both USB & Optical connected to my Multibit via my PC, it turns out unplugging the USB from the DAC solved the problem, noise and hum gone!
> 
> The noise / hum was present even with Optical selected on the DAC...


 

 Sounds like a ground loop is the most likely problem. This can be solved by trying out a few things. All power plugs should be connected to the same power strip. Sometimes lifting the third wire prong from the power plug of one of the devices will solve this as well.


----------



## Ancipital

mwsvette said:


> Jason stated in a post that having way too many of these pots from the original MJ1 in stock was the impetus to design the Jotunheim.
> 
> I wonder what other parts they may have too many of lying around that Mike or Jason could build a new product around.  The Jotunhiem sure turned out great...


 
  
 The guts of some R2R DACs.. enough to make a smaller balanced DAC..?


----------



## Alchemist007

Finally got a shipping confirmation. Now gotta wait all week since it's on the other end of the country...


----------



## Jiggybutt

Wich would be the best option; Jot with built in dac or a Modi MB on top of it? Would I gain getting a balanced cable for my he-560 if I get the SE connection to the external dac?


----------



## ColtMrFire

Got to hear the Jot with internal DAC recently and compared it to my Mimby.

Mimby is obviously going to be better than the internal DAC. And SE connection makes no difference to a balanced HP cable. A balanced HP connection gives more power/control over the driver.


----------



## Defiant00

jiggybutt said:


> Wich would be the best option; Jot with built in dac or a Modi MB on top of it? Would I gain getting a balanced cable for my he-560 if I get the SE connection to the external dac?


 
  
 Modi MB, and you can use balanced or SE output regardless of what input you're using.
  
 Whether you'll hear a difference, though? Dunno


----------



## Vigrith

My Jotunheim's just been delivered a couple hours ago, thus far I definitely agree with Jason's assertion that the best way to describe it is "characterless". It's powerful enough to let every pair of headphones I own shine through with their strengths (and weaknesses). Seems to be an incredible match with the HD650 because it has more than enough brute force (balanced at least, not tried SE) to push them where they need to go whilst lifting most of the infamous veil. Sounds appropriate with HE-400S, latest rev LCD-2s and Nighthawks, nothing is obviated/emphasized, everything is as intended. T90s and HD800s kinda bright (as they should) out the box but I expect it to smooth out a little more (or my brain'll just get used to it, don't listen to these 2 much anyway).
  
 Built in DAC seems to be doing a better job than I'd originally expected, if I had to compare its sound to something I own I'd say it is practically on the same league as the A&K's new AK70 and noticeably better than my good ole Fostex HP-A4. Not sure how often I'll be using the inbuilt over my Modi MB in my main setup but the Jotunheim was bought for using at office regardless so the question at hand is whether or not to just buy another one to have at home.


----------



## Jiggybutt

vigrith said:


> My Jotunheim's just been delivered a couple hours ago, thus far I definitely agree with Jason's assertion that the best way to describe it is "characterless". It's powerful enough to let every pair of headphones I own shine through with their strengths (and weaknesses). Seems to be an incredible match with the HD650 because it has more than enough brute force (balanced at least, not tried SE) to push them where they need to go whilst lifting most of the infamous veil. Sounds appropriate with HE-400S, latest rev LCD-2s and Nighthawks, nothing is obviated/emphasized, everything is as intended. T90s and HD800s kinda bright (as they should) out the box but I expect it to smooth out a little more (or my brain'll just get used to it, don't listen to these 2 much anyway).
> 
> Built in DAC seems to be doing a better job than I'd originally expected, if I had to compare its sound to something I own I'd say it is practically on the same league as the A&K's new AK70 and noticeably better than my good ole Fostex HP-A4. Not sure how often I'll be using the inbuilt over my Modi MB in my main setup but the Jotunheim was bought for using at office regardless so the question at hand is whether or not to just buy another one to have at home.


 
 I would love to hear more on your thoughts about difference between the built in dac and Modi MB. I am arguing with myself about witch combo I should get. Can barely afford it, so getting both dacs is not an option.


----------



## NikonGuy

..


----------



## ColtMrFire

It just so happens a local I'm friends with bought the Jot with internal DAC and brought it around for a listen yesterday. We directly compared it to my Mimby (which is he is considering buying).

I did not spend a ton of time with it, but it was fairly obvious to both of us which was better. I didn't mention this to prove a point about this forum delving into topics and dishing out opinions about unfamiliar gear all the time. I've seen it quite a bit.


----------



## NikonGuy

..


----------



## Alchemist007

Probably should've asked this before, but if I intend to listen to another amp with the pre-outs, would the Jot continue playing from the headphone output if I left another headphone plugged in there? Probably won't matter but just something to know.


----------



## MWSVette

alchemist007 said:


> Probably should've asked this before, but if I intend to listen to another amp with the pre-outs, would the Jot continue playing from the headphone output if I left another headphone plugged in there? Probably won't matter but just something to know.


 
 Yes, the pre-outs and headphone jacks are remain active at the same time.


----------



## Jiggybutt

nikonguy said:


> Go with the Modi Multibit if you can,  the internal DAC however is very good as long as you feed it properly via something like HQPlayer.
> 
> In all honesty if you have not listened to the Mulibit I am sure you would be more than happy with the internal DAC.
> 
> *Also remember the internal DAC is balanced and differential, the Multibit is not...*


 
 Yes, that is what I am concerned about, because in all honesty I really don't know what benefits that gives that the multibit cannot. I have talked to Schiit-europe and they promised to do a full refund if I send back items that I'm not satisfied with. It's a nice gesture. Most probably I will order Jot and Modi muitibit and send back the modi if it's not to my satisfaction. Sadly, then I will never have got to try the built in dac.


----------



## Sanlitun

nikonguy said:


> I only use Optical so it is not a problem, it is just strange that the Jot picks it up and the Magni does not...


 
  
 Interesting comment. When I first got my Jot I found it was so revealing it allowed me to hear some problems related to buffer size in my player that my previous amp was not capable of resolving.


----------



## Vigrith

jiggybutt said:


> I would love to hear more on your thoughts about difference between the built in dac and Modi MB. I am arguing with myself about witch combo I should get. Can barely afford it, so getting both dacs is not an option.


 
  
 Depends on the remainder of your gear - though I'd say if you're over the ~$250 (very personal, almost arbitrary) department when it comes to headphones then the Multibit will be an improvement sizeable enough to justify the price discrepancy. It's very subjective though, but I'd say that's about where it start shining (from personal experience).


----------



## NikonGuy

..


----------



## Ancipital

jiggybutt said:


> Wich would be the best option; Jot with built in dac or a Modi MB on top of it? Would I gain getting a balanced cable for my he-560 if I get the SE connection to the external dac?


 
  
 That depends on how you define "best". The built-in DAC will give you convenience and portability- but it's USB-only and a fairly normal Delta/Sigma DAC. I haven't actually heard the built-in DAC-  I skipped it because I have a couple of more fancy choices, but there's a bit of me that sort of wishes that I'd grabbed it for convenience in retrospect. The DAC module is a pair of AK4490, running as a balanced configuration. I'm sure it sounds pretty good by the standards of the 4490, which is a pretty reputable DAC.
  
 Various people have had issues with electrical noise down the USB connection, so be aware that noisy USB sources (cough, Macbooks) might not produce great results plugged in via USB, and require a decrapifier.
  
 The Modi Multibit is a lovely DAC, it sounds a lot better than its $249 would have you believe. Everyone, including Schiit themselves I'm sure, would be pretty upfront about this being a better-sounding option compared to their D/S stuff, despite being SE. It's just that obviously it's a slightly more expensive option, and makes the unit less self-contained if you're likely to move it around.
  
 So it's up to you- are you OK with the extra cost of the Modi Multibit? Are you without the convenience of the internal DAC? Would you prefer having the option of optical and co-axial S/PDIF inputs with the Modi Multibit? You could chose either or both, and still not be wrong, it's what suits you that matters.
  
 If what you're actually asking is "what would _sound _best?", you'd probably find that the Modi Multibit would sound better.


----------



## MWSVette

nikonguy said:


> Do you have a link to the feet your mention? Thanks


 
 Yes,
  
 https://www.amazon.com/3M-Bumpon-SJ5023-Bumper-Spacer/dp/B002OTNGPQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1475006781&sr=8-1&keywords=3m+rubber+feet


----------



## iamxLn

Can you compare the joti to the lyr 2 briefly?


----------



## Jiggybutt

vigrith said:


> Depends on the remainder of your gear - though I'd say if you're over the ~$250 (very personal, almost arbitrary) department when it comes to headphones then the Multibit will be an improvement sizeable enough to justify the price discrepancy. It's very subjective though, but I'd say that's about where it start shining (from personal experience).


 
 I have just got my new HiFiMAN He-560! Maybe I should consider other brand dacs aswell.


----------



## StanD

mwsvette said:


> Yes,
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/3M-Bumpon-SJ5023-Bumper-Spacer/dp/B002OTNGPQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1475006781&sr=8-1&keywords=3m+rubber+feet


 

 I use the same stick on feet for all of my Schiit, they're really good.


----------



## franzdom

I have graduated beyond stick on feet


----------



## Vigrith

jiggybutt said:


> I have just got my new HiFiMAN He-560! Maybe I should consider other brand dacs aswell.


 
  
 My spouse owns the HE-560s, whilst I've not tried them with the Jotunheim yet nor ran comparisons I'd say they're definitely competent enough to warrant the Modi MB purchase. Though, as others have said, if you've never heard as multibit DAC and are satisfied with the way D/S sounds, the built in module one is great, it's considerably better than other 100-300 dollar DACs I've tried/owned. If you were to consider other brand DACs that outperform the inbuilt (and/or the Modi MB) I'd say there's no point looking into anything under like $500 as it'll not be a meaningful upgrade.
  
 Obviously, YMMV, this is just from my experience and with the gear I had/have access to. Nowadays I'd not really bother buying any DAC that isn't by Schiit unless I'd be able to go into proper R2R ones like Metrum or Lampizator (not really within my budget).


----------



## Jiggybutt

ancipital said:


> That depends on how you define "best". The built-in DAC will give you convenience and portability- but it's USB-only and a fairly normal Delta/Sigma DAC. I haven't actually heard the built-in DAC-  I skipped it because I have a couple of more fancy choices, but there's a bit of me that sort of wishes that I'd grabbed it for convenience in retrospect. The DAC module is a pair of AK4490, running as a balanced configuration. I'm sure it sounds pretty good by the standards of the 4490, which is a pretty reputable DAC.
> 
> Various people have had issues with electrical noise down the USB connection, so be aware that noisy USB sources (cough, Macbooks) might not produce great results plugged in via USB, and require a decrapifier.
> 
> ...


 
  


vigrith said:


> My spouse owns the HE-560s, whilst I've not tried them with the Jotunheim yet nor ran comparisons I'd say they're definitely competent enough to warrant the Modi MB purchase. Though, as others have said, if you've never heard as multibit DAC and are satisfied with the way D/S sounds, the built in module one is great, it's considerably better than other 100-300 dollar DACs I've tried/owned. If you were to consider other brand DACs that outperform the inbuilt (and/or the Modi MB) I'd say there's no point looking into anything under like $500 as it'll not be a meaningful upgrade.
> 
> Obviously, YMMV, this is just from my experience and with the gear I had/have access to. Nowadays I'd not really bother buying any DAC that isn't by Schiit unless I'd be able to go into proper R2R ones like Metrum or Lampizator (not really within my budget).


 
  
 Thank you for good and to the point input! I never even thaught about the different connections available in the multibit. That would however be the same in the Modi Uber. ATM I have the original Magni/modi stack, and how can I know if I'm satisfied with the S/D dac when it's both of them I hear? I just know I want more!
  
 I will not be moving my stuff around witch makes stacking a Modi on top of Jot no problem at all.
  
 Since all of you are so sure of that the multibit sounds better than Delta/Sigma, what are your thoughts about this guys review of the bifrost multibit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBlADcpbxbg
 He does A/B testing on Bifrost Multibit vs a Delta/Sigma Emotiva XDA 2, and claims that he cannot hear any possible difference.
 Is the Emotiva XDA 2 just a really good d/s dac? Is he full of ****?(pun intended) Does he have bad hearing? What does all of you here hear that he doesn't?
  
 Note that I'm not questioning anyones opinion/hearing, just a curious newbie trying to get my head around this!


----------



## Currawong

Some people will be sensitive to subtle differences, some people wont be. Sometimes it is the music they listen to or the quality of it. Someone who listens to high-quality recordings of piano or violin may be more sensitive to these things than someone who listens to electronica for example. Some people will have the opposite opinion about which is better. You'll get every opinion under the sun. It is the result of discussion of what amounts to subtleties in an hobby that is exceedingly complex and has endless permutations of possibilities.


----------



## Allanmarcus

jiggybutt said:


> ancipital said:
> 
> 
> > That depends on how you define "best". The built-in DAC will give you convenience and portability- but it's USB-only and a fairly normal Delta/Sigma DAC. I haven't actually heard the built-in DAC-  I skipped it because I have a couple of more fancy choices, but there's a bit of me that sort of wishes that I'd grabbed it for convenience in retrospect. The DAC module is a pair of AK4490, running as a balanced configuration. I'm sure it sounds pretty good by the standards of the 4490, which is a pretty reputable DAC.
> ...


 
  
 Hearing differences is a combination of a trained ear in the case of very subtle differences, gear, good hearing in general, and bias. Blind testing can remove the bias, but it's not easy to do blind testing by yourself. A good DAC or Amp shouldn't should be too much different, assuming "good" means accurate reproduction. At a certain level of quality, the variations between SS Amp, and even less so with DACs, becomes quite small. It's possible a person who doesn't have an extremely trained ear not to hear any difference. I know I can't hear too much difference between many of the DACs I have heard.
  
 Tyll Hertsens said this about high end DACs during the "Bg Sound" headphone listening test:
  


> I'm not going to individually mention the DACs because they all sounded very good, very similar, and were not the primary focus of the event. I just don't have much to say about them other than were I in the market for one of the three, I'd probably choose the Yggdrasil due to it's relatively low cost and good feature set...and it sounded punchy and dynamic to me, which I like.
> Read more at http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/big-sound-2015-wrap-my-take-headphone-amps


 
  
 Now he referred to the Yggy as "relatively low cost" so you know he was listening to the expensive schiit!
  
 It's quite possible the Emotiva sounded exactly the same as the multibit to that listener. He might not have good enough gear, hearing, or training to distinguish the subtle differences. And if he can't, he has one less piece of equipment to agonize over.


----------



## Vigrith

jiggybutt said:


> Thank you for good and to the point input! I never even thaught about the different connections available in the multibit. That would however be the same in the Modi Uber. ATM I have the original Magni/modi stack, and how can I know if I'm satisfied with the S/D dac when it's both of them I hear? I just know I want more!
> 
> I will not be moving my stuff around witch makes stacking a Modi on top of Jot no problem at all.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Personally I don't see Z Reviews as a reliable source of information whatsoever - he says the Mojo is the exact same as his HA2 and that the Bifrost MB is the same as the Emotiva he owns. Either way, his opinion is not something I take into heavy (or any) consideration, though his reviews are decent enough for people who are just starting out and whatnot. Not discrediting his hearing, I just think some of the things he says are not what I consider to be within the realm of possibility at all.
  
 It's hard to give advice on MB/R2R and DACs in general, if I were in your position (if budget allows) I'd give it a try to see whether or not you'll be able to hear a noticeable difference. I could, and still can, but I rather have *one* good, reliable, clean DAC as my source than have a ton of them - rather get a bunch of different amps instead (OTL, hybrid, SS), same goes for headphones, I've always found differences to be more pronounced there than with DACs. One thing Z Reviews believes in that I also agree with to some extent is that once you get a really good DAC then the curve really starts to smooth out; I just happen to draw the "really good DAC" line a lot higher than he does.


----------



## Andrew Rieger

jiggybutt said:


> Since all of you are so sure of that the multibit sounds better than Delta/Sigma, what are your thoughts about this guys review of the bifrost multibit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBlADcpbxbg
> He does A/B testing on Bifrost Multibit vs a Delta/Sigma Emotiva XDA 2, and claims that he cannot hear any possible difference.
> Is the Emotiva XDA 2 just a really good d/s dac? Is he full of ****?(pun intended) Does he have bad hearing? What does all of you here hear that he doesn't?


 
  
 Ah, Zeos  ... dude has serious beef with expensive DACs for some reason. He seems to appreciate nice amps and cans but always rags on pricier DACs. He is sort of in the minority on this issue. Most people here seem to think there are noticeable audible benefits from moving up the DAC food chain. For me though, a Modi multibit is probably about as good as I can appreciate. I'm using a Teac UD301 currently which has two delta/sigma Burr Brown 1795's and I think it sounds pretty darn good, better than my Uber Schiit Stack did. I avoid saying things like much better or way better because the differences were slight but they were there regardless. I doubt I would notice much of a difference between the Teac and a multibit bifrost but I also realize my ears aren't as picky as the guys who have been into this much longer than I have. As always YMMV.


----------



## Ancipital

jiggybutt said:


> Thank you for good and to the point input! I never even thaught about the different connections available in the multibit. That would however be the same in the Modi Uber. ATM I have the original Magni/modi stack, and how can I know if I'm satisfied with the S/D dac when it's both of them I hear? I just know I want more!
> 
> I will not be moving my stuff around witch makes stacking a Modi on top of Jot no problem at all.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The differences are smaller, it's true- it's nothing like the qualitative difference of getting much better transducers. The standard "wisdom" of transducer > amp > DAC is remarkably helpful. If your headphones are holding you back, or your amp, you probably can't hear the differences much, if at all. It's a useful way to think about priorities, though obviously you should always try to identify the "bottleneck" if something is annoying you.
  
 Not all DACs are created equal- and a D/S DAC can still sound great, if well implemented. Two DACs based around the same chipset can be quite different, even, so it's a bit of a crapshoot.
  
 What I would say is that R2R DACs generally test objectively as more accurate, and subjectively often win, with listeners who have learned to hear the harshness/brightness that you can sometimes get with D/S. Stuff like pianos (which are hard) and massed strings are often where I hear a bit of a difference, or particular cymbal sounds. I'd always found pianos sounding a bit more "off" in some way than I was happy with, and was never sure why. 
  
 Anyway, a well-implemented D/S DAC won't make your head explode, but if you do ever learn to hear "digititus" (as some people playfully call it), you'll get antsy. My inexpensive chain is now good enough that I can hear DAC differences, between my Modi Multibit and Mojo, even. Hell, it's good enough that I can pick out lossless vs 256k AAC via blind ABX now, which I wish I couldn't. Damn Schiit for selling me an amp of a quality that I wasn't expecting to be able to afford!
  
 Ultimately, I can't see that the Modi Multibit at $249 is anything less than remarkable, and couldn't honestly say that there's anything to touch it at the price. Conversely, the 4490 D/S DAC module for the Jotenheim seems not to have offended anyone- and it's a perfectly respectable chipset. At this point, I'd trust Schiit not make  a mess of implementation. As long as your USB sources are clean, you'd probably be fine with the internal module.
  
 Of course, if you suffer EMI/ground loop issues down the USB connection, you may end up throwing a decrapifier (like the Schiit Wyrd) at it, at which point you lose the one box advantage, and the prices become a lot closer. It does appear that the on-board DAC option is a little more vulnerable to electrical noise than some of the external options. It's worth bearing in mind.
  
 So, effectively, I'm saying "it depends", and unhelpfully leaving it up to you! If you were to ask me what I'd do, with the benefit of hindsight, I'd have got the DAC module with my Jotenheim as a nice travel option, and kept the Modi Multibit _as well_ , as it's bloody lovely (and a minor miracle at the price). I had the Modi before I had the Jotenheim, though, so I was certainly assisted by inertia. However, that's just me, and your mileage really may vary. The good news is that you have some nice options.
  
 Sorry that was a bit rambling, but I have tried to keep it honest, and not say "YOU MUST DO THIS OR YOU SMELL OF WEE". I'd be leaning towards the Modi Multibit just because it's lovely and you'll be spoiled by owning it at the price, but the world really won't end if you go the other way


----------



## Jiggybutt

Oh, this is going to be a big big wall of quoting since all of you nice gents wrote so much good back to me!


currawong said:


> Some people will be sensitive to subtle differences, some people wont be. Sometimes it is the music they listen to or the quality of it. Someone who listens to high-quality recordings of piano or violin may be more sensitive to these things than someone who listens to electronica for example. Some people will have the opposite opinion about which is better. You'll get every opinion under the sun. It is the result of discussion of what amounts to subtleties in an hobby that is exceedingly complex and has endless permutations of possibilities.


 
 Yes, I see that different people hear different things.
  


allanmarcus said:


> Hearing differences is a combination of a trained ear in the case of very subtle differences, gear, good hearing in general, and bias. Blind testing can remove the bias, but it's not easy to do blind testing by yourself. A good DAC or Amp shouldn't should be too much different, assuming "good" means accurate reproduction. At a certain level of quality, the variations between SS Amp, and even less so with DACs, becomes quite small. It's possible a person who doesn't have an extremely trained ear not to hear any difference. I know I can't hear too much difference between many of the DACs I have heard.
> 
> Tyll Hertsens said this about high end DACs during the "Bg Sound" headphone listening test:
> 
> ...


 
 Haha calling the Yggy a low cost dac really shows where his reference point is! Thank you, I laughed out really loud! 
  
 In case he can't hear the differences, that would be a "good for you"-moment. It's getting clear to me that there are diffenrences, but as you all say, they are getting smaller and smaller.
  
  


vigrith said:


> Personally I don't see Z Reviews as a reliable source of information whatsoever - he says the Mojo is the exact same as his HA2 and that the Bifrost MB is the same as the Emotiva he owns. Either way, his opinion is not something I take into heavy (or any) consideration, though his reviews are decent enough for people who are just starting out and whatnot. Not discrediting his hearing, I just think some of the things he says are not what I consider to be within the realm of possibility at all.
> 
> It's hard to give advice on MB/R2R and DACs in general, if I were in your position (if budget allows) I'd give it a try to see whether or not you'll be able to hear a noticeable difference. I could, and still can, but I rather have *one* good, reliable, clean DAC as my source than have a ton of them - rather get a bunch of different amps instead (OTL, hybrid, SS), same goes for headphones, I've always found differences to be more pronounced there than with DACs. One thing Z Reviews believes in that I also agree with to some extent is that once you get a really good DAC then the curve really starts to smooth out; I just happen to draw the "really good DAC" line a lot higher than he does.


 


andrew rieger said:


> Ah, Zeos  ... dude has serious beef with expensive DACs for some reason. He seems to appreciate nice amps and cans but always rags on pricier DACs. He is sort of in the minority on this issue. Most people here seem to think there are noticeable audible benefits from moving up the DAC food chain. For me though, a Modi multibit is probably about as good as I can appreciate. I'm using a Teac UD301 currently which has two delta/sigma Burr Brown 1795's and I think it sounds pretty darn good, better than my Uber Schiit Stack did. I avoid saying things like much better or way better because the differences were slight but they were there regardless. I doubt I would notice much of a difference between the Teac and a multibit bifrost but I also realize my ears aren't as picky as the guys who have been into this much longer than I have. As always YMMV.


 
  
 Yes, I've been looking at some of his other reviews now and can agree that he is not really top credibility. I just found it curious that someone had the total opposite experience than all the others and often by bringing that ones words into the discussion you get the best arguments and clarifications from those who oppose. And so I did! Thank you.
  
  
  


ancipital said:


> The differences are smaller, it's true- it's nothing like the qualitative difference of getting much better transducers. The standard "wisdom" of transducer > amp > DAC is remarkably helpful. If your headphones are holding you back, or your amp, you probably can't hear the differences much, if at all. It's a useful way to think about priorities, though obviously you should always try to identify the "bottleneck" if something is annoying you.
> 
> Not all DACs are created equal- and a D/S DAC can still sound great, if well implemented. Two DACs based around the same chipset can be quite different, even, so it's a bit of a crapshoot.
> 
> ...


 
 Well, I've had some problems with the usb-connection already. I think I have sorted it out, but maybe it could get better. I've read about people who used usb and had the "meh"-feeling but later switched to spdif and got stunned by the difference. I have a good stationary computer, so the difference maybe not be that big for me, but it would be nice to have the option to go optic cable. 
  
 I love your rambling, there is nothing to excuse! You have put some good and valid points witch are mostly objective! I think all of you have convinced me that the 150$ extra for the multibit is worth it, and I'll be pretty much safe from upgrading that in any foreseeable future.
  
 I will most probably order the Jot tonight. Unfortunately Modi MB is out of stock at the europe distibutor, so I will have to wait for it. Maybe its a good thing, because I will upgrade in steps and that will make me appreciate it even more than getting all at once!
  
  
 I just found this forum some days ago. Already love it! Thanks guys!


----------



## jimmers

Jot arrived today, only had FiiO X3 and Modded SHP9500 and modded T50RP at work - but still nice.
 Home and it's now coax -> Bimby > Jot > HD650, short version - not disappointed.
  
 I was only going to have a brief listen while I checked work and threads, that was 3 hours ago now.


----------



## Ancipital

jiggybutt said:


> I love your rambling, there is nothing to excuse! You have put some good and valid points witch are mostly objective! I think all of you have convinced me that the 150$ extra for the multibit is worth it, and I'll be pretty much safe from upgrading that in any foreseeable future.
> 
> I will most probably order the Jot tonight. Unfortunately Modi MB is out of stock at the europe distibutor, so I will have to wait for it. Maybe its a good thing, because I will upgrade in steps and that will make me appreciate it even more than getting all at once!


 
  
 Oh, cool- so at least I didn't just wall of text you to death. I hope you enjoy the Jot, and maybe the Modi MB too, if you do decide to get it. You're right that you might enjoy a gradual upgrade path- but if not, I have ordered a couple a things direct from Schiit in the US in the past (I'm UK-based), and found the process painless and quick.
  
 Still, you're right, the shopping isn't the point, it's the listening and enjoying your music


----------



## ginetto61

Hi !
 sorry to jump in with a question maybe already answered along the thread. 
 I tried to find some opinions but got lost. 
 I wonder if anyone has tried it* as a line preamp in a good stereo system *and with what result. 
 Unbalanced or balanced is fine for me.  
 My best dac (a Gustard X20U) provides both types of outs.
 Thanks a lot.
 gino


----------



## Ggroch

allanmarcus said:


> Hearing differences _(in DACs_) is a combination of a trained ear in the case of very subtle differences, gear, good hearing in general, and bias.....


 
 Yes!  although I would change  it to "Bias, gear, and good hearing" because unless you blind test bias is the biggest factor when differences are subtle.
  
 My views on DACS are nearly exactly the same as *Z-Reviews. *   I think this DAC you-tube video is great.  His logic and explanations of the great DAC controversy are right on target. Note that  I have spent my entire adult life selling/training audio so am not the just starting out clueless newby described by an earlier post as the target audience for Z-reviews.  This does not mean that Z-reviews is right...just that audio-smart people believe this too. 
  
 In particular...the reviewer's attempt to avoid reading about the supposed multi-bit advantage (drinking the kool-aid) before any comparative listening is great practice. And his description of the super high end audio culture ($40,000 DACS) are accurate
  
 BUT....since the Z-reviewer and I already do not believe that differences between quality DACS are discernible....our biases in non-blind tests like this one would probably prevent us from hearing differences.   
  
 My takeaway....when there are smart people on both sides of the do-dacs-matter issue then you certainly should not agonize over which well designed DAC to choose. (there is no do-headphones matter controversy)  
  
 Buy the DAC within your budget that you like...and you will almost always like the sound.  Right up until you learn about a new DAC with breakthrough technology that you just gotta have.


----------



## Vigrith

ggroch said:


> Note that  I have spent my entire adult life selling/training audio so am not the just starting out clueless newby described by an earlier post as the target audience for Z-reviews.  This does not mean that Z-reviews is right...just that audio-smart people believe this too.


 
  
 That was me, I was making a general blanket statement regarding his reviewing style and approach to equipment in general, I was not trying to imply anyone that agrees with anything he says is clueless and new, only that his videos tend to appeal and be more helpful to people who are still starting out.
  
 I absolutely understand that someone knowledgeable as you are may also believe in that, and as said toward the end of my previous post I also agree with it to a certain extent - I just happen to draw the "really good DAC" line a bit higher than he does is all.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Yes, confirmation bias works both ways. 

I think it is a bit like the double slit experiment in quantum physics. Where the observed becomes a particle and a wave when its not. How can it be a wave and a particle at the same time? It defies reason. I think audio has objective qualities but is much more susceptible to bias of the observer, the bias working for or against... With sound WAVES being a specific thing (particle) in the mind of the listener or just a wave with no differences from other waves. Which is why you can have vastly different views about the same thing. Just my own theory, don't mean to derail the thread.


----------



## Jiggybutt

I just ordered a Jotunheim!! Can't wait for it to get here! 
 The good thing now when it comes to dacs, is that I can take my headphones and Jot and go to any hifistore that sells dacs and do some testing. If I can hear the difference between a pricy and cheap one, I have more to upgrade in the future, maybe get the Mimby. If I can't, well... good for me and my wallet.


----------



## Jazz1

How does the compare with the Audeze Deckard Headphone Amplifier / DAC / Preamplifier? I do note the price difference, but what about sound and capabilities?


----------



## Cet1

I want to thank those writing about DACs.  I have the Jot with the DAC.  I am getting terrible blips/static through it - continuous static - have tried to reduce programs running to give it more memory (suggested here) but to no avail.  I have installed a powered USB (again, per advice here) - no help!   I do have a MassDrop Centrance USB - when listening through it, I hear no static!  I have played the Centrance through the Jot - again no static - but what is the use?  I hear no difference than through the Centrance directly (although I could have balanced output - but no balanced HP so what the use again).  I would be interested in the de-crapifier also but I am like others - for $150 more do I get that much more with a Modi M/B?   Is the Schiit de-crapifier really going to work?  Is the M/B really going to work for certain?
  
 Enjoy the conversations/recommendations here.  Got any comments, I would certainly appreciate them!  Thanks!!


----------



## MonoOno

You spend $500-$1000 more on your DAC of course you are going to be biased against a $100 DAC. You can try to convince yourself and others you wont be but come on. And that is not say your $1000 DAC is not better but I doubt many of you would admit they sound very similar though there is nothing similar about their price points.
  
 But I know how many of you feel as I recently I bought a Philips SHP9500. Paid $49.95 and hell if it does not sound as good as my other headphones costing 5X that price. Still cant convince myself though to put them in the same category as say a HD600 or HD650 though in some blind tests I'm convinced the SHP9500 would win a few rounds.


----------



## NikonGuy

..


----------



## tekkster

Hrumph....none of my headphones seem to make violin (acoustic, not electric) sound very good to me with any of my limited Jot config options at my disposal.
 imac/jriver-with or without mojo (optical or usb)-Jot usb or SE (if mojo)- hd800, beyer t1, sharkk bravo, fostex tr80/250, ety er-4s, ety er-4p, ath-m50x....
  
 grumble grumble whine whine complain complain
 firstworldproblems


----------



## Ggroch

cet1 said:


> I want to thank those writing about DACs.  I have the Jot with the DAC.  I am getting terrible blips/static through it - continuous static - have tried to reduce programs running to give it more memory (suggested here) but to no avail.  I have installed a powered USB (again, per advice here) - no help!   I do have a MassDrop Centrance USB - when listening through it, I hear no static!  I have played the Centrance through the Jot - again no static - but what is the use?  I hear no difference than through the Centrance directly (although I could have balanced output - but no balanced HP so what the use again).  I would be interested in the de-crapifier also but I am like others - for $150 more do I get that much more with a Modi M/B?   Is the Schiit de-crapifier really going to work?  Is the M/B really going to work for certain?
> 
> Enjoy the conversations/recommendations here.  Got any comments, I would certainly appreciate them!  Thanks!!


 
 It should not do that, regardless of memory or powered/unpowered USB.   There is not enough information here to provide great advice but:
  
 1. Did you try the Joti USB DAC in a different computer to be certain first that it is not defective.  I would do that 1st.
  
 2. If Windows, did you load the Gen 2 USB drivers 1st (from the Schiit Joti page, downloads).  If you did, and followed directions, I would uninstall the drivers and try installing again. 
  
 3. If Windows, did you right click on the speaker on the bottom right, go to playback devices and then advanced properties...test and adjust the sample rate. 
  
 4. Try a different USB cable.   Make sure the cable is connected directly to a USB port on the computer, not thrugh a hub.  Even if you cannot do that permanently it would tell you if a hub is the problem.
  
 5.  The latency suggestion above could help if the static happens just when playing music through a program.   If it happens all the time (like windows sounds). then it probably is not that.
  
 6. If all else fails, did you contact Schiit support?


----------



## Ggroch

tekkster said:


> Hrumph....none of my headphones seem to make violin (acoustic, not electric) sound very good to me with any of my limited Jot config options at my disposal.


 
  
 Sounds like should replace the violin.


----------



## Ancipital

cet1 said:


> I want to thank those writing about DACs.  I have the Jot with the DAC.  I am getting terrible blips/static through it - continuous static - have tried to reduce programs running to give it more memory (suggested here) but to no avail.  I have installed a powered USB (again, per advice here) - no help!   I do have a MassDrop Centrance USB - when listening through it, I hear no static!  I have played the Centrance through the Jot - again no static - but what is the use?  I hear no difference than through the Centrance directly (although I could have balanced output - but no balanced HP so what the use again).  I would be interested in the de-crapifier also but I am like others - for $150 more do I get that much more with a Modi M/B?   Is the Schiit de-crapifier really going to work?  Is the M/B really going to work for certain?
> 
> Enjoy the conversations/recommendations here.  Got any comments, I would certainly appreciate them!  Thanks!!


 
  
 That depends on what's causing the problems. If it's buffer underruns because your computer is choking, and not clocking packets onto the USB bus reliably, a decrapifier probably won't help*. If what you are hearing is the result of electrical interference, then something like a Wyrd will help. You need to work out if the choking is analogue electrical interference, or problems with the USB data stream itself.
  
 (Oh, try a different cable, first, too!)
  
 On another note- you can go balanced into your Jot, and SE out- it doesn't care. You don't need to match that up. I go SE in from my DAC, and balanced out.
  
  
  
  
 * There are a few edge cases where USB reclocking from something like the Wyrd will help with manky USB, but it's super-rare and marginal.


----------



## Tuneslover

Too bad we can't easily audition Schiit gear.


----------



## tekkster

tuneslover said:


> Too bad we can't easily audition Schiit gear.


 

 I'll certainly be paying attention to this thread and the Schiit website in the hopes that there's another "listen" day.  Seems from early on in this thread that there was one not too long ago.  With luck, maybe there'll be one in SF/SJ or somewhere else in the Bay Area.


----------



## Cet1

ggroch said:


> It should not do that, regardless of memory or powered/unpowered USB.   There is not enough information here to provide great advice but:
> 
> 1. Did you try the Joti USB DAC in a different computer to be certain first that it is not defective.  I would do that 1st.
> 
> ...


 
  
 1.  I have no other computer to try it with - just my 4 yr old MacBook Pro
 2.  Not Windows
 3.  Not Windows
 4.  Did this 1st - have tried 3 different USB cables - one is worse but the other 2 are about the same (both new and of a high brand)
 5.  How do change latency in Pro - am using iTunes to play files I have downloaded or ripped myself -  and Pandora.  All have the same problem
 6.  Schiit Support coming up unless you guys have another solution you want me to try first!
 7.  Doesn't seem to be an electrical interface problem as I have moved wires all around, cleared the desktop, even used a $350 power cord on the Jot to ensure silence on it
  
 Thanks for ALL the suggestions/help


----------



## Ancipital

cet1 said:


> 7.  Doesn't seem to be an electrical interface problem as I have moved wires all around, cleared the desktop, even used a $350 power cord on the Jot to ensure silence on it


 
  
 I don't think you quite understand this bit- you can get electrical interference down the USB cable from your Macbook, as the USB interface in the Jot's DAC isn't galvanically isolated. Giving the Jot a shiny mains lead won't make any difference, if this is the problem.


----------



## tekkster

cet1 said:


> 1.  I have no other computer to try it with - just my 4 yr old MacBook Pro
> 2.  Not Windows
> 3.  Not Windows
> 4.  Did this 1st - have tried 3 different USB cables - one is worse but the other 2 are about the same (both new and of a high brand)
> ...


 

 Is your Mac running El Capitan? 

 If it is, then it is the USB port on the MacBook.

 El Capitain changed something in the USB driver, and many (not all, I don't think) of us who are running El Capitan got our USB audio messed up a bit.  Doesn't happen with every DAC and doesn't happen with everyone running El Capitan.  But it's been pretty commonly complained about.

 I tried running JRiver, Swinsian, and Audervana, and JRiver does better (I have no idea why).  Even then, just gave up for now and am running optical audio (which your MacBook should have) to a Mojo and then running SE out to SE in.  It's marginally better (or difference could be my imagination) than running 3.5 SE out to Jot's SE in.


----------



## Cet1

tekkster said:


> Is your Mac running El Capitan?
> 
> If it is, then it is the USB port on the MacBook.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I am running El Capitan!!  Yuck!!  Sorry to hear this!  
  
 So here is a question, why is the CEntrance giving me clear audio?  Does it have a decapifier built into it?  (The CEntrance is like the DragonFly Red but supposed to be better.  I bought it before the Jot came out)


----------



## ToTo Man

I upgraded my 2010 Mac Mini to El Capitan this summer and have experienced one or two very minor glitches with USB out to my 4490 Bifrost.  It isn't often or audible enough to sweat over, but before upgrading to El Cap I experienced ZERO issues in 4 years with Snow Leopard.   Is the El Capitan problem something a Wyrd would likely fix?


----------



## tekkster

cet1 said:


> I am running El Capitan!!  Yuck!!  Sorry to hear this!
> 
> So here is a question, why is the CEntrance giving me clear audio?  Does it have a decapifier built into it?  (The CEntrance is like the DragonFly Red but supposed to be better.  I bought it before the Jot came out)


 

 Hahaha....sorry....As a total newbie, non-audiophile, I was just happy to see a question I could relate too.  My answer is the limit to what I know (^-^).  Hopefully someone else will know.
 It was suggested to me that I might consider getting a Schiit Wyrd de-crapifier, but haven't bought one yet.  Maybe your other DAC has that de-crapifier thing in it.


----------



## Ancipital

toto man said:


> I upgraded my 2010 Mac Mini to El Capitan this summer and have experienced one or two very minor glitches with USB out to my 4490 Bifrost.  It isn't often or audible enough to sweat over, but before upgrading to El Cap I experienced ZERO issues in 4 years with Snow Leopard.   Is the El Capitan problem something a Wyrd would likely fix?


 
  
 Probably not, no.
  
 If it bothers you, consider going S/PDIF out into your DAC if both ends support that.


----------



## franzdom

My motherboard only has optical or USB options, what is the best way to add coax S/PDIF, perhaps a creative sound card?


----------



## Ancipital

franzdom said:


> My motherboard only has optical or USB options, what is the best way to add coax S/PDIF, perhaps a creative sound card?


 
  
 Don't. Use the optical if your DAC supports it too. That's your best option, no direct electrical connection between computer and DAC, it's exactly what you want. Laugh in the face of interference!
  
 (S/PDIF can be optical or coaxial, sometimes optical is called TOSlink, confusingly.)


----------



## Mediahound

According to Gordon Rankin (Wavelength Audio):
  
 "No matter what asynchronous USB is going to be better than most any SPDIF system, especially Toslink."
  
from: http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2016/05/gordon-rankin-on-why-usb-audio-quality-varies/


----------



## Allanmarcus

Time to take the computer audio discussion to their respective threads and focus back on the Jodie.
  
 I highly recommend contacting Schiit support if you are having an issue. It's possible they have seen it before and can be of assistance.


----------



## cthomas

cet1 said:


> 1.  I have no other computer to try it with - just my 4 yr old MacBook Pro
> 2.  Not Windows
> 3.  Not Windows
> 4.  Did this 1st - have tried 3 different USB cables - one is worse but the other 2 are about the same (both new and of a high brand)
> ...




Yes, there's an entire thread on Apple site about this. As soon as El Capitan was introduced people began experiencing problems, myself included. I was running 10.11.1 with my Sony uda-1. Upgraded to 10.11.6 and all is well. Though some were still having issues.

Apparently Sierra has fixed the problem people are saying. I've downloaded it but have yet to install it until I know for sure it has fixed everything.

Edit: you should also try Audirvana+ which you can also run in iTunes integration mode. But Audirvana by itself sounds incredible.


----------



## LepakVT

Does anyone have any pictures of a Jotunheim + Yggdrasil stack? Very close to ordering both.


----------



## Mediahound

lepakvt said:


> Does anyone have any pictures of a Jotunheim + Yggdrasil stack? Very close to ordering both.


 

 Not my pic but: 
  
 Quote:


jfoxvol said:


>


----------



## franzdom

lepakvt said:


> Does anyone have any pictures of a Jotunheim + Yggdrasil stack? Very close to ordering both.


 
 It's in the far upper right of this page.


----------



## franzdom

Yggy is massive.


----------



## jimmers

franzdom said:


> Yggy is massive.


 
 Certainly not compacted.


----------



## earnmyturns

tekkster said:


> Hrumph....none of my headphones seem to make violin (acoustic, not electric) sound very good to me with any of my limited Jot config options at my disposal.
> imac/jriver-with or without mojo (optical or usb)-Jot usb or SE (if mojo)- hd800, beyer t1, sharkk bravo, fostex tr80/250, ety er-4s, ety er-4p, ath-m50x....
> 
> grumble grumble whine whine complain complain
> firstworldproblems


 
 Hum... Listening to that amazing opening of Bartók's 2nd violin concerto (Arabella Steinbacher + Orchestre de la Suisse Romande, Pentatone Classics, FLAC 96/24), first time with Jotunheim, loving the violin's "presence" over the orchestral mass. I don't think the Jot is getting in the way of the Bimby or Ether C Flows here, on the contrary.


----------



## bavinck

Just got the Jot and it is making my hd700s really sing - something pretty hard to do Early impressions are very nice!


----------



## xuan87

franzdom said:


> Yggy is massive.


 
  
 Or... you can see it as the Jot being really small LOL


----------



## tekkster

earnmyturns said:


> Hum... Listening to that amazing opening of Bartók's 2nd violin concerto (Arabella Steinbacher + Orchestre de la Suisse Romande, Pentatone Classics, FLAC 96/24), first time with Jotunheim, loving the violin's "presence" over the orchestral mass. I don't think the Jot is getting in the way of the Bimby or Ether C Flows here, on the contrary.


 

 You're probably right.  Maybe I need the Bifrost DAC, or maybe none of my headphones are good for violins.

 I do really like piano and guitar using the Jot with the T1, HD800.  Xylophone too.  Most digitally produced sounds, including electric violin too.  Cello seems "pretty good" but not really "wow".  Woodwind and brass instruments sound pretty phenomenal.  The only thing that sounds weird to me is the acoustic violin.  

 Could just be my imagination, or possibly the acoustic violin sound I "want" to hear is wrong and maybe it actually sounds good.  Not sure.


----------



## ToddRaymond

ginetto61 said:


> Hi !
> sorry to jump in with a question maybe already answered along the thread.
> I tried to find some opinions but got lost.
> I wonder if anyone has tried it *as a line preamp in a good stereo system* and with what result.
> ...




I would also like to hear from anyone who has used it to feed a power amp in a good system. Thanks!


----------



## slex

Got it today. Lets see how its performance against my audiodg C11.


----------



## slex

bavinck said:


> Just got the Jot and it is making my hd700s really sing - something pretty hard to do Early impressions are very nice!



Are you using balance or SE?


----------



## Ancipital

bavinck said:


> Just got the Jot and it is making my hd700s really sing - something pretty hard to do Early impressions are very nice!


 
  
 Ye gods, man, you must have nerves/ears of steel. Glad you're happy, though!


----------



## DavidA

bavinck said:


> Just got the Jot and it is making my hd700s really sing - something pretty hard to do Early impressions are very nice!


 
 I gotta ask, Jot or Ember with the HD-700?


----------



## bavinck

davida said:


> I gotta ask, Jot or Ember with the HD-700?


 
 I have the Ember incoming as well, the Jot got here first I have it connected SE right now, using a modi 1 dac (which I know is bright). All the comments here about the hd800 maybe not pairing super well with Jot I wasn't expecting the 700 to fair any better, but it is all I have on hand at the moment. I am super surprised how well the 700 and Jot pair. The 700 can be peaky, I agree, but I do not find it as bad as some do. That being said, I don't find it peaky at all on the Jot. I wouldn't call it smooth, but it sounds nice and airy without causing any discomfort. The Jot makes the bass nice and full, really making acoustics sound wonderful.
  
 I like the combo, but I am looking forward to comparing it with my incoming Ember and some nice warm tubes....


----------



## escalibur

Any HD650 & O2 ODAC RevB owners' upgrade experiences with Joti?


----------



## Clemmaster

"All DACs, all amps sound the same."


----------



## Youth

clemmaster said:


> "All DACs, all amps sound the same."


 
  
 Nice bait.


----------



## XERO1

It seems like the Jot really brings higher impedance cans (>150 ohms) to life.


----------



## Tuneslover

I wonder if an amp only Jotunheim sounds better than one with a DAC because it doesn't have the potentially noisy DAC assembly? Also it doesn't need to share a power supply with the DAC. I know Schiit has attempted to isolate these units but one can't help but wonder. Besides obsolescence isn't that why Schiit stubbornly kept them separate in different cases?


----------



## Letmebefrank

tuneslover said:


> I wonder if an amp only Jotunheim sounds better than one with a DAC because it doesn't have the potentially noisy DAC assembly? Also it doesn't need to share a power supply with the DAC. I know Schiit has attempted to isolate these units but one can't help but wonder. Besides obsolescence isn't that why Schiit stubbornly kept them separate in different cases?




I think I remember reading in Jason's blog that the dac uses usb power to keep it separate from the amp. Even if it doesn't, it should be switched off if you are selecting a different source, unless for some reason it stays on whenever the Jot is on. Also I would think that as long as the dac isn't processing any data and blasting high frequency noise out at its surroundings you should be ok.


----------



## Alchemist007

How much of an issue was this even? I recall someone a couple pages ago complaining about noise but it turned out to be a bad macbook related thing.


----------



## Letmebefrank

alchemist007 said:


> How much of an issue was this even? I recall someone a couple pages ago complaining about noise but it turned out to be a bad macbook related thing.




I don't think it is even an issue, just exploring the idea.


----------



## Vigrith

youth said:


> Nice bait.


 
  
 Pretty dreadful bait I'd say LOL
  
 That said, still enjoying the Jotunheim and it has smoothed out a little with T90s/HD800 after having been ran in for 24h. Best pairing is still HD650s.


----------



## Ancipital

xero1 said:


> It seems like the Jot really brings higher impedance cans (>150 ohms) to life.


 
  
 It does seem to be brutally effective with some fairly heavy headphones!


----------



## erics75

Anyone here have an iFi Micro iCan SE and a Jot for comparison?


----------



## BarDash

ancipital said:


> Nope, you can do SE-SE, SE-BAL, BAL-SE and BAL-BAL with the Jot. It doesn't care- it all works, and works well. The SE is remarkably decent in all cases, but balanced will give you a little more if you use it. That's one of the main things that makes the Jot such a remarkable amp at the price.



So if I 





ancipital said:


> Nope, you can do SE-SE, SE-BAL, BAL-SE and BAL-BAL with the Jot. It doesn't care- it all works, and works well. The SE is remarkably decent in all cases, but balanced will give you a little more if you use it. That's one of the main things that makes the Jot such a remarkable amp at the price.



So if I want to use A Modi MB with the Jot & and still use a balanced connection what would the connection be? In other words I'm using USB from the Jot into my computer now and have the Jot DAC already, but wanna try MB. Same connection as I have now? Would I use RCAs to connect the Jot to the Modi?


----------



## ToddRaymond

bardash said:


> Would I use RCAs to connect the Jot to the Modi?




Yes.


----------



## Ancipital

bardash said:


> So if I
> So if I want to use A Modi MB with the Jot & and still use a balanced connection what would the connection be? In other words I'm using USB from the Jot into my computer now and have the Jot DAC already, but wanna try MB. Same connection as I have now? Would I use RCAs to connect the Jot to the Modi?


 
  
 Yeah, you literally don't need to do _anything_ clever or special to hook the Jot up. Just connect your RCAs from the Mimby to the Jot, and flick the source selector on the front to choose the SE in, and you're good to go. There are no gotchas, it's a very well-designed little amp.


----------



## Jiggybutt

ancipital said:


> Yeah, you literally don't need to do _anything_ clever or special to hook the Jot up. Just connect your RCAs from the Mimby to the Jot, and flick the source selector on the front to choose the SE in, and you're good to go. There are no gotchas, it's a very well-designed little amp.


 
 Isn't that how you hook any dac/source up to an amp? It aint nanoscience.


----------



## Jazz1

Well, since payday rolled in I ordered the Jot. I could resist no longer 
  
 I have an Audeze Deckard on the way, but will probably return that unopened. I plan to use the Jot with HD-650 and a Massdrop x Fostex TH-X00 Purpleheart for my office desktop rig. Hope I don't have a problem with my iMac's USB port. Several years ago I did on my home iMac.
  
 I am also wondering if the single box Jot will out do my many years old (two box) PS Audio GCHA and Music Fidelity M1 box with my Audeze LCD2 headphones?


----------



## Allanmarcus

jiggybutt said:


> ancipital said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, you literally don't need to do _anything_ clever or special to hook the Jot up. Just connect your RCAs from the Mimby to the Jot, and flick the source selector on the front to choose the SE in, and you're good to go. There are no gotchas, it's a very well-designed little amp.
> ...


 

 see post #1505 for the original question. It's always good to scroll back a little if you don't understand why an answer is there.


----------



## Jiggybutt

allanmarcus said:


> see post #1505 for the original question. It's always good to scroll back a little if you don't understand why an answer is there.


 
  Yes I saw it. It was meant as a joke, but I guess it came out a bit harsh, sorry for that. 
  
 Modi Multibit doesn't have a balanced output, so it is impossible to get it balanced. I wonder though how much difference it would be to have it balanced. If you use really short rca-cables, there are not a long distance to introduce extra noise.


----------



## Allanmarcus

jiggybutt said:


> allanmarcus said:
> 
> 
> > see post #1505 for the original question. It's always good to scroll back a little if you don't understand why an answer is there.
> ...


 
 been discussed many time on various threads. Only the most discerning ears can sometimes tell the difference.


----------



## Ancipital

jiggybutt said:


> Yes I saw it. It was meant as a joke, but I guess it came out a bit harsh, sorry for that.
> 
> Modi Multibit doesn't have a balanced output, so it is impossible to get it balanced. I wonder though how much difference it would be to have it balanced. If you use really short rca-cables, there are not a long distance to introduce extra noise.


 
  
 It would measure a teeny-tiny bit better. It would be a marginal improvement, not easy to hear.
  
 Having said that, if they released a balanced multibit DAC that stacked neatly with the Jotenheim and was similarly priced, I probably wouldn't be able to resist tearing their arms off for it. It's a bit shameful


----------



## Soundizer

How does HD650 sound with the SENNHEISER HD650 balanced cable out of it?


----------



## ColtMrFire

Put "HD650 balanced" in the search this thread space and you will get more opinions than you can handle.


----------



## Vigrith

soundizer said:


> How does HD650 sound with the SENNHEISER HD650 balanced cable out of it?


 
  
 Short version - buy it.
  
 Long version - buy it now.
  
 In all seriousness, it's the my favourite pairing so far and I've got plenty of headphones (more expensive than the 650s) to choose from.


----------



## floppiness

erics75 said:


> Anyone here have an iFi Micro iCan SE and a Jot for comparison?


 

 Would also want to hear this comparison.


----------



## murphythecat

floppiness said:


> Would also want to hear this comparison.


 
 me three. I have the original ifi ican and really considering the jotunheim...


----------



## BarDash

ancipital said:


> Yeah, you literally don't need to do _anything_ clever or special to hook the Jot up. Just connect your RCAs from the Mimby to the Jot, and flick the source selector on the front to choose the SE in, and you're good to go. There are no gotchas, it's a very well-designed little amp.



Thanks...


----------



## Cet1

Just FYI - The changing of the operating system to Sierra on my MacBook Pro did not change the static problem through the Jot.  Nice suggestion - but didn't work.  Guess will contact Schiit next week.  (Sorry I got some feathers ruffled up about being in this thread with my problem.  Just thought since my Jot was producing static, the Jot blog would be the place to get help.  Won't bother you again.)


----------



## poocaso

vigrith said:


> Short version - buy it.
> 
> Long version - buy it now.
> 
> In all seriousness, it's the my favourite pairing so far and I've got plenty of headphones (more expensive than the 650s) to choose from.


 

 +1! Some great synergy going on with the Jot and 650 pairing!


----------



## Night01

Hi is it possible to run iems balanced without using the xlr like trrs? Ty.


----------



## Letmebefrank

night01 said:


> Hi is it possible to run iems balanced without using the xlr like trrs? Ty.


 
  
 The 1/4" jack on the jotunheim is single ended. There is no way to get a balanced signal from it. You could make (or have made for you) a TRRS to 4-pin XLR adapter. 
  
  
 Here's the parts you would need to make your own if you have a soldering iron.
  
*TRRS Jack Female*
*4 Pin XLR Male*
*Mogami Bulk Cable*


----------



## Night01

letmebefrank said:


> The 1/4" jack on the jotunheim is single ended. There is no way to get a balanced signal from it. You could make (or have made for you) a TRRS to 4-pin XLR adapter.
> 
> 
> Here's the parts you would need to make your own if you have a soldering iron.
> ...


 
 Thanks for replying! Also would this be a significant upgrade from my O2.


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

letmebefrank said:


> The 1/4" jack on the jotunheim is single ended. There is no way to get a balanced signal from it. You could make (or have made for you) a TRRS to 4-pin XLR adapter.
> 
> 
> Here's the parts you would need to make your own if you have a soldering iron.
> ...


 
 This would not make the IEM-s balanced because the trs connection shares the ground between the left and right channel. If you connect the left - and right - it would not create a proper ground, would cause distortion and potentially damage the amp due to the short circuit between the two channels. The IEM-s would neet to be rewired first to 4 pin with separate ground wires for each side.


----------



## Allanmarcus

whit3rav3n said:


> This would not make the IEM-s balanced because the trs connection shares the ground between the left and right channel. If you connect the left - and right - it would not create a proper ground, would cause distortion and potentially damage the amp due to the short circuit between the two channels. The IEM-s would neet to be rewired first to 4 pin with separate ground wires for each side.




The assumption is the IEM are balanced, so the question answers how to connect it ipassuming it has a TRRS plug.


----------



## Letmebefrank

night01 said:


> Thanks for replying! Also would this be a significant upgrade from my O2.




It has much more power. I personally think it sounds fantastic but only your ears will decide what sounds better to you. 



whit3rav3n said:


> This would not make the IEM-s balanced because the trs connection shares the ground between the left and right channel. If you connect the left - and right - it would not create a proper ground, would cause distortion and potentially damage the amp due to the short circuit between the two channels. The IEM-s would neet to be rewired first to 4 pin with separate ground wires for each side.




He said TRRS, so I was assuming the IEMs were already balanced.


----------



## Atavax

nice, exactly what I was looking for. Have UERMs and HE-400, was looking for a solid state upgrade over o2 that could drive both and would allow me to start looking at higher end cans that are harder to drive. Personally not a big believer in spending a lot on dacs, but spending an extra $100 to have a nice built in dac, seems like a good deal.


----------



## Vigrith

night01 said:


> Thanks for replying! Also would this be a significant upgrade from my O2.


 
  
 About as significant as it gets, in my opinion. Have owned both (albeit briefly as I wasn't happy with the O2) at the office and they're just in different leagues - especially once you factor in all the functionalities and connections, etc. that the Jotunheim offers. Given how they're priced there's no contest.


----------



## bavinck

Only change I would like with the Jot is a power button out front.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Jotunheim has been on for almost 24 hours. It is a lot warmer than it was just after being turned on the first time. I am actually very surprised. It is very nuetral but has a warm signature to me.

I just put the HD650 up for sale here, did not like them at all. They had some nice qualities but didn't care for the treble roll off and dark sound.

The Jot with my T90 is a brillaint pairing. Enjoying it very much. My next can is going to be the HD800.


----------



## Atavax

always confused when people talking about an amp running warm if they're talking about temp or coloring


----------



## ColtMrFire

Coloring.


----------



## Ancipital

vigrith said:


> Short version - buy it.
> 
> Long version - buy it now.
> 
> In all seriousness, it's the my favourite pairing so far and I've got plenty of headphones (more expensive than the 650s) to choose from.


 
  
 Ah good, so you liked it in the end, after all that discussion?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
  


coltmrfire said:


> Jotunheim has been on for almost 24 hours. It is a lot warmer than it was just after being turned on the first time. I am actually very surprised. It is very nuetral but has a warm signature to me.
> 
> I just put the HD650 up for sale here, did not like them at all. They had some nice qualities but didn't care for the treble roll off and dark sound.
> 
> The Jot with my T90 is a brillaint pairing. Enjoying it very much. My next can is going to be the HD800.


 
  
 Without wishing to seem rude, you just eschewed the obviously best pairing for this amp, and are now planning a far more expensive bad pairing, it's a little perplexing. I suppose it takes all sorts, but still... 
  
 Also, I question your ears, if you're hearing it running "warm" after leaving it on. It doesn't change much, and is a rather neutral amp. Maybe you should keep a pair of neutral-ish cans around to help you calibrate your ears sometimes, I think they're haunted


----------



## Night01

vigrith said:


> About as significant as it gets, in my opinion. Have owned both (albeit briefly as I wasn't happy with the O2) at the office and they're just in different leagues - especially once you factor in all the functionalities and connections, etc. that the Jotunheim offers. Given how they're priced there's no contest.


 
 Haha that has me more interested in this now. If you could could you elaborate what the difference between the two are? Was the O2 more sterile and less natural sounding? Also can you use iems with this, was wondering if I'll run into channel imbalance issues cause my knob is only slightly turned on the 02 and its already loud. Ty.


----------



## ColtMrFire

ancipital said:


> Ah good, so you liked it in the end, after all that discussion?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Its funny how we wish others would like what we like and berate them when they don't. There is no objective "best" pairing for the Jot. Its just opinion/taste, and everybody has different ear drums.


----------



## comzee

ancipital said:


> Also, I question your ears, if you're hearing it running "warm" after leaving it on. It doesn't change much, and is a rather neutral amp. Maybe you should keep a pair of neutral-ish cans around to help you calibrate your ears sometimes, I think they're haunted


 
 T90 is brighter than hd650.
 Jot is just a hair bright, internal dac making it more bright.
  
 Based on Colt throwing out the hd650, and liking the T90, we can only assume his personal preference is bright.
 In that vain, he'll probably love the hd800 with it, take the 6khz spike and shove it right into your ear, some people like that tho, not knocking it. 
  
 I think the only confusion he has, is no baseline. Because he is referencing pretty much universally reviewed things that are "bright" as "warm".
 Who knows, eh.


----------



## ColtMrFire

comzee said:


> T90 is brighter than hd650.
> Jot is just a hair bright, internal dac making it more bright.
> 
> Based on Colt throwing out the hd650, and liking the T90, we can only assume his personal preference is bright.
> ...




My preference is actually neutral but I don't mind bright. But the T90s are not nearly as bright as say, the DT880, they are fairly warm in comparison. Look, I know I hurt your feelings by not fellating the 650, but come on guys, a little fair and balanced!


----------



## bavinck

coltmrfire said:


> My preference is actually neutral but I don't mind bright. But the T90s are not nearly as bright as say, the DT880, they are fairly warm in comparison. Look, I know I hurt your feelings by not fellating the 650, but come on guys, a little fair and balanced!




To my ears the t90 is brighter than dt880 by a fair margin. 

Not to be a thorn, but I think your preferences are bright, not neutral. You are posting like crazy all over the forums these days and everyone can see you are preferring a bright signature.


----------



## ColtMrFire

bavinck said:


> To my ears the t90 is brighter than dt880 by a fair margin.
> 
> Not to be a thorn, but I think your preferences are bright, not neutral. You are posting like crazy all over the forums these days and everyone can see you are preferring a bright signature.




One of my favorite headphones was the HD600 which has a more neutral signature. The only reason I sold it was because it did not offer the technical abilities I needed to handle complex orchestral passages. The T90 were a fairly cheap alternative to the HD800 or T1 so I got them used on head fi. I did not care for the overly treble happy nature but that was only a problem 5-10% otf the time. The other 90% saw it performing brilliantly at exactly what I wanted in my classical stuff. So my preference is neutral but I will take the technicalities even if it means brighter. Please stop presuming to know what I prefer. If the HD600 did what I needed I would never have gotten rid of them.

I also see you are eager to jump on the 650 hype train since you want to buy my 650. Have you heard them before? Don't make the same mistake I did. What signature do you prefer?


----------



## Ancipital

comzee said:


> I think the only confusion he has, is no baseline. Because he is referencing pretty much universally reviewed things that are "bright" as "warm".
> Who knows, eh.


 
  
 Exactly what I was getting at!
  
  


coltmrfire said:


> Its funny how we wish others would like what we like and berate them when they don't. There is no objective "best" pairing for the Jot. Its just opinion/taste, and everybody has different ear drums.


 
  
 Believe me, dude, if I were getting at you, there'd be no room for doubt. No, I am just amused at your flip-flopping; if you're happy, that's fine. It may confuse others, though.


----------



## ToTo Man

Not wishing to fan the flames but I've always seen "bright" and "warm" as overly-subjective broad-brush descriptors with too much room for interpretation/misunderstanding.  Perhaps I'm in the minority, but IMO it would be helpful to know which parts of the frequency spectrum are causing the perceived brightness or warmth in the item being described.  e.g. take a headphone that boosts between 5kHz and 10kHz and another that boosts between 10kHz and 20kHz, would it be appropriate to describe them both simply as "bright" even though the different areas of HF emphasis will give them VERY different sonic characters?


----------



## bavinck

coltmrfire said:


> One of my favorite headphones was the HD600 which has a more neutral signature. The only reason I sold it was because it did not offer the technical abilities I needed to handle complex orchestral passages. The T90 were a fairly cheap alternative to the HD800 or T1 so I got them used on head fi. I did not care for the overly treble happy nature but that was only a problem 5-10% otf the time. The other 90% saw it performing brilliantly at exactly what I wanted in my classical stuff. So my preference is neutral but I will take the technicalities even if it means brighter. Please stop presuming to know what I prefer. If the HD600 did what I needed I would never have gotten rid of them.
> 
> I also see you are eager to jump on the 650 hype train since you want to buy my 650. Have you heard them before? Don't make the same mistake I did. What signature do you prefer?




Yes, thanks for the response No 650 hype train. Been through many, many headphones and wanted a pair of 650 for years now. I like all signatures, different signatures to fit different moods. Probably a warmer signature is my ultimate preference.


----------



## ColtMrFire

toto man said:


> Not wishing to fan the flames but I've always seen "bright" and "warm" as overly-subjective broad-brush descriptors with too much room for interpretation/misunderstanding.  Perhaps I'm in the minority, but IMO it would be helpful to know which parts of the frequency spectrum are causing the perceived brightness or warmth in the item being described.  e.g. take a headphone that boosted between 5kHz and 10kHz and another that boosted between 10kHz and 20kHz, would it be appropriate to describe them both simply as "bright" even though the different portions of HF emphasis will give them VERY different sonic characters?




Yes, its a fairly murky area people like to get dogmatic and sensitive about. This is further heightened by the fact that different amps, DACs and cables will slightly alter a headphone's coloration.


----------



## ColtMrFire

ancipital said:


> Exactly what I was getting at!
> 
> 
> 
> Believe me, dude, if I were getting at you, there'd be no room for doubt.




I'm positively petrified. Letters on a screen can be scary!


----------



## XERO1

One benefit of having at least one pair of bright sounding headphones (like the T90, HD 800, etc) is that they can be like a microscope for revealing differences/improvements in whatever upstream gear changes you make.  A warmer sounding headphone may be pleasant for everyday listening, but it isn't really going to have the resolving power that's needed to tell you exactly what is going on whenever you switch to a new piece of gear.
  
 This is why most studio monitors tend to be on the brighter side of neutral, not because it necessarily sounds better that way, but because it allows the engineer to easily hear and correct for any imperfections as they pop up while recording, mixing or mastering.


----------



## Allanmarcus

Has anyone plugged the Jodie into a kil-a-watt to determine actual electricity usage, both idle and playing?


----------



## Vigrith

night01 said:


> Haha that has me more interested in this now. If you could could you elaborate what the difference between the two are? Was the O2 more sterile and less natural sounding? Also can you use iems with this, was wondering if I'll run into channel imbalance issues cause my knob is only slightly turned on the 02 and its already loud. Ty.


 
  
 The Jotunheim is meant to handle all sorts of IEMs very well - I cannot personally attest for this just yet as I'm waiting for Empire Ears to release their ADEL tech line up further down the line before I invest into proper in ears.
  
 As a small disclaimer I will say my hearing is very sensitive, sharp sounds, nasty treble and general loud listening cause me physical discomfort/pain, plus I sold the O2 ages ago so it's all from memory of course. I disliked the O2/ODAC because I felt all it did was make the sound of my headphones louder, it was just as digital, piercing and fatiguing as listening straight from the headphone jack on my computer, just had a volume knob and that's about it. Everything felt shouty, forced and sterile.
  
 The Jotunheim is neutral but it is not pushy and annoying. The sound it produces is effortless despite being ridiculously powerful, it's just clean - I agree it is slightly brighter tilted as with most Schiit gear objectively speaking to my ears but it does not bother me at all even though most my headphones are darker tilted (LCD-2, HD650s, NightHawks, etc because of the problem I mentioned earlier). I'd say it is more characterless than bright/in your face, if it doesn't bother me I doubt it would bother anyone.
  
  


ancipital said:


> Ah good, so you liked it in the end, after all that discussion?


 
  
 Yes, I do like it very much. As you know my preference lies with warmer/relaxing musical sound, ergo I've always had trouble finding solid state amplification I enjoy just as much/more than my valves - this is definitely an exception, it's completely different from my Pathos Aurium for example whose sound is beautiful, intimate and romantic but it still remains pleasant and versatile; if the song calls for it it'll punch you in the face, if the song is laid back then it won't ruin the mood. It's super versatile, not just far as inputs/outputs/headphone/iem/speaker compatibility but also in terms of being able to perform as it should with all kinds of music without imposing character.
  


xero1 said:


> One benefit of having at least one pair of bight sounding headphones (like the T90, HD 800, etc) is that they can be like a microscope for revealing differences/improvements in whatever upstream gear changes you make.  A warmer sounding headphone may be pleasant for everyday listening, but it isn't really going to have the resolving power that's needed to tell you exactly what is going on whenever you switch to a new piece of gear.


 
  
 This is the exact reason I still keep my HD800s (plus they're sort of a collector's item as per their legendary status, of course).


----------



## Tuneslover

For those of you who own a Jotunheim just a quick question...does it also make a popping sound on initial startup? My Magni2U and Vali2 do.

One more thing, I recall reading somewhere earlier in this thread that while headphones are plugged in the preamp outs (mine are connected to powered speakers) don't mute like other Schiit amps do. Is this true or did I misinterpret something?


----------



## Ancipital

night01 said:


> Haha that has me more interested in this now. If you could could you elaborate what the difference between the two are? Was the O2 more sterile and less natural sounding? Also can you use iems with this, was wondering if I'll run into channel imbalance issues cause my knob is only slightly turned on the 02 and its already loud. Ty.


 
  
 Well, it works with all my IEMs, without imbalance issues or noise- just switched to low impedance on the front. I didn't like how my SE535s sounded through it, they were thin and weird (I must try again to see if I did something wrong), but my SE215 and MEE Pinnacle P1 seemed pretty happy.
  
 (Yes, I know, but expensive IEMs still make me nervous, on the hoof.)
   
  
 Quote:


vigrith said:


> Yes, I do like it very much. As you know my preference lies with warmer/relaxing musical sound, ergo I've always had trouble finding solid state amplification I enjoy just as much/more than my valves - this is definitely an exception, it's completely different from my Pathos Aurium for example whose sound is beautiful, intimate and romantic but it still remains pleasant and versatile; if the song calls for it it'll punch you in the face, if the song is laid back then it won't ruin the mood. It's super versatile, not just far as inputs/outputs/headphone/iem/speaker compatibility but also in terms of being able to perform as it should with all kinds of music without imposing character.


 
  
 I'm so glad to hear that- you were putting a lot of careful thought into it. I like your characterisation a lot- it does seem to manage not to offend, being rather neutral, clear and quick without being harsh, sibilant and shouty. Also, good grief, finding an amp at this price that can exploit the fabled scaling of the HD650 without having to pray for a used bargain on something exotic is an unexpected bonus.


----------



## Alchemist007

Finally got mine, this thing is a heater!


----------



## grrorr76

alchemist007 said:


> Finally got mine, this thing is a heater!


 

 Mine doesnt run hot at all. very strange


----------



## nedifer

alchemist007 said:


> Finally got mine, this thing is a heater!


 
  
  


grrorr76 said:


> Mine doesnt run hot at all. very strange


 
  
 Could the temperature of the Jotunheim depend on whether using balanced or SE cables?  I've also seen conflicting reports (though I can't yet afford one, so can't comment personally).


----------



## Alchemist007

I'm using balanced, but it's like this just powered on and not in active use. And by hot I don't mean too hot to touch, just pretty warm, like a laptop while not doing anything but having been on a while.


----------



## murphythecat

coltmrfire said:


> Jotunheim has been on for almost 24 hours. It is a lot warmer than it was just after being turned on the first time. I am actually very surprised. It is very nuetral but has a warm signature to me.
> 
> I just put the HD650 up for sale here, did not like them at all. They had some nice qualities but didn't care for the treble roll off and dark sound.
> 
> The Jot with my T90 is a brillaint pairing. Enjoying it very much. My next can is going to be the HD800.


 
 let the hd650 + jotunheim play for about 100 hours and then come back to it. you should spend bit more time. you have a system that will reveal its beauty in a couple of days.
  
 must admit I really think the 650 needs modding to truly shine though. anyhow, I believe in break in and wouldnt make any decision before making sure the headphone and amp have been running for at least 100 hour


----------



## Youth

murphythecat said:


> let the hd650 + jotunheim play for about 100 hours and then come back to it. you should spend bit more time. you have a system that will reveal its beauty in a couple of days.
> 
> must admit I really think the 650 needs modding to truly shine though. anyhow, I believe in break in and wouldnt make any decision before making sure the headphone and amp have been running for at least 100 hour


 Why not make it a 1000 hours? Just to be sure.


----------



## Night01

vigrith said:


> The Jotunheim is meant to handle all sorts of IEMs very well - I cannot personally attest for this just yet as I'm waiting for Empire Ears to release their ADEL tech line up further down the line before I invest into proper in ears.
> 
> As a small disclaimer I will say my hearing is very sensitive, sharp sounds, nasty treble and general loud listening cause me physical discomfort/pain, plus I sold the O2 ages ago so it's all from memory of course. I disliked the O2/ODAC because I felt all it did was make the sound of my headphones louder, it was just as digital, piercing and fatiguing as listening straight from the headphone jack on my computer, just had a volume knob and that's about it. Everything felt shouty, forced and sterile.
> 
> The Jotunheim is neutral but it is not pushy and annoying. The sound it produces is effortless despite being ridiculously powerful, it's just clean - I agree it is slightly brighter tilted as with most Schiit gear objectively speaking to my ears but it does not bother me at all even though most my headphones are darker tilted (LCD-2, HD650s, NightHawks, etc because of the problem I mentioned earlier). I'd say it is more characterless than bright/in your face, if it doesn't bother me I doubt it would bother anyone.


 
  
 Awesome that sounds similar to what I find the O2 to sound like. Good to hear that the sound shouldn't be annoying as I heard some people saying that the Jotunheim is aggressive, wasn't too sure what that meant. I'm also looking forward to pairing this amp with the new empire ears lineup .


ancipital said:


> Well, it works with all my IEMs, without imbalance issues or noise- just switched to low impedance on the front. I didn't like how my SE535s sounded through it, they were thin and weird (I must try again to see if I did something wrong), but my SE215 and MEE Pinnacle P1 seemed pretty happy.
> 
> (Yes, I know, but expensive IEMs still make me nervous, on the hoof.)


 
  
 Haha that's great ty 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Jiggybutt

ancipital said:


> It would measure a teeny-tiny bit better. It would be a marginal improvement, not easy to hear.
> 
> Having said that, if they released a balanced multibit DAC that stacked neatly with the Jotenheim and was similarly priced, I probably wouldn't be able to resist tearing their arms off for it. It's a bit shameful


 
 That's how they get you to upgrade!


----------



## Dephezz

tuneslover said:


> For those of you who own a Jotunheim just a quick question...does it also make a popping sound on initial startup? My Magni2U and Vali2 do.
> 
> One more thing, I recall reading somewhere earlier in this thread that while headphones are plugged in the preamp outs (mine are connected to powered speakers) don't mute like other Schiit amps do. Is this true or did I misinterpret something?


 
 1) Yes it makes popping sound on startup and also 3-4 seconds after you connect built-in dac with usb cable to your source.
 2) Yes. It forces you to turn off your speakers before using HPs and vice versa.


----------



## Mediahound

To my knowledge, all Schiit amps are like that, same on my Mjolnir 2. I would advise before power it up, unplug any headphones. Then power it on and wait like 30 seconds to plug in headphones. You can however power it off with headphones plugged in.


----------



## Jazz1

mediahound said:


> To my knowledge, all Schiit amps are like that, same on my Mjolnir 2. I would advise before power it up, unplug any headphones. Then power it on and wait like 30 seconds to plug in headphones. You can however power it off with headphones plugged in.




I've got one on order. I don't want to sound snarky, but isn't all that unplugging a lot of wear and tear? Just wondering?


----------



## Mediahound

jazz1 said:


> I've got one on order. I don't want to sound snarky, but isn't all that unplugging a lot of wear and tear? Just wondering?


 
 Maybe but it would not likely wear out in the lifetime of any of the equipment. 
  
 Recording studios are making plug connections constantly throughout the day for decades.


----------



## Atavax

isn't the solution to just keep it on always, then you don't need to turn it on and replug your headphones?


----------



## earnmyturns

atavax said:


> isn't the solution to just keep it on always, then you don't need to turn it on and replug your headphones?


 
 Yup.


----------



## Atavax

man, i can't wait for these to arrive!


----------



## gto88

alchemist007 said:


> I'm using balanced, but it's like this just powered on and not in active use. And by hot I don't mean too hot to touch, just pretty warm, like a laptop while not doing anything but having been on a while.


 
 Mine is the same, not hot, just warm even I leave it on all day. and just a little warmer if I listen for hours, but it is not untouchable hot either.


----------



## Voxata

For those of you who also own an Ifi Micro iDSD... I suggest you preamp that sucker right into the Jot... Wowza.


----------



## Tuneslover

So I'm still thinking about purchasing the Jotunheim but without a module. I don't need a DAC because I already own 3 Schiit DAC's and wiould simply connect one of them to the Jot SE input. So am I correct in understanding that in my case I would set the input selector on the front of the Jotunheim to the bottom position for SE? Does that then make BOTH Single Ended and Balanced headphone OUTPUTS simultaneously active?

That would be cool because both my wife and I would be able to listen to music together. However wouldn't the Balanced headphone output be louder due to the higher power being supplied to that output?


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

tuneslover said:


> So I'm still thinking about purchasing the Jotunheim but without a module. I don't need a DAC because I already own 3 Schiit DAC's and wiould simply connect one of them to the Jot SE input. So am I correct in understanding that in my case I would set the input selector on the front of the Jotunheim to the bottom position for SE? Does that then make BOTH Single Ended and Balanced headphone OUTPUTS simultaneously active?
> 
> That would be cool because both my wife and I would be able to listen to music together. However wouldn't the Balanced headphone output be louder due to the higher power being supplied to that output?


 
 Yes, even if you use the RCA inputs, both headphone outputs are active. The Balanced output is significantly louder though.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

youth said:


> Why not make it a 1000 hours? Just to be sure.


 
  
 Always let it burn in till 1 day after the warranty expires.  That's what the guy at the hi-fi shop used to tell me....


----------



## FLTWS

Well, Schiit must be back up to speed on parts and completed units, I ordered a Jodie on Saturday and just got an E-Mail it has shipped.


----------



## Atavax

fltws said:


> Well, Schiit must be back up to speed on parts and completed units, I ordered a Jodie on Saturday and just got an E-Mail it has shipped.


 

 yep, i ordered mine on Sat and got an email that they shipped today as well.


----------



## Tuneslover

atavax said:


> yep, i ordered mine on Sat and got an email that they shipped today as well.




I hope they ship the order to the Headphone Bar in Vancouver so that I can order one up here.


----------



## Alchemist007

mediahound said:


> To my knowledge, all Schiit amps are like that, same on my Mjolnir 2. I would advise before power it up, unplug any headphones. Then power it on and wait like 30 seconds to plug in headphones. You can however power it off with headphones plugged in.


 

 Is this just if you have speakers plugged in? I didn't notice any popping in the headphones (only headphones connected).


----------



## Mediahound

alchemist007 said:


> Is this just if you have speakers plugged in? I didn't notice any popping in the headphones (only headphones connected).


 
  
 Headphones too, but it depends on how sensitive the headphones are. I also notice it more when plugged into balanced.


----------



## bavinck

tuneslover said:


> I hope they ship the order to the Headphone Bar in Vancouver so that I can order one up here.


 
 I ordered directly from Schiit. Have been enjoying it for a week already. HB said they won't get stock for 2-3 weeks.


----------



## Letmebefrank

Absolutely zero pop/noise when turning on the Jot. HD650s plugged into Balanced output. Mine is the amp only. I'm wondering if having the DAC module makes it pop...


----------



## ToddRaymond

tuneslover said:


> That would be cool because both my wife and I would be able to listen to music together. However wouldn't the Balanced headphone output be louder due to the higher power being supplied to that output?




I'm sure some (near-)perfect pairing exists consisting of a headphone (utilizing the balanced out) that would require a lot more juice to really sing than whatever you've got plugged into the SE output, that would hopefully result in similar volume levels out of both outputs.



tuneslover said:


> I hope they ship the order to the Headphone Bar in Vancouver so that I can order one up here.




No affiliation, but they should be in stock there soon (within a week or so, hopefully). I inquired myself a week ago.


----------



## ColtMrFire

So I have an opportunity to recable my T90 into XLR for the Jotunheim but it's gonna run me $150. I'm not interested in doing it myself.

Is the balanced connection really that superior to single ended? What are some characteristics of the balanced HP out of the Jotunheim other than "its louder"?


----------



## Mediahound

coltmrfire said:


> So I have an opportunity to recable my T90 into XLR for the Jotunheim but it's gonna run me $150. I'm not interested in doing it myself.
> 
> Is the balanced connection really that superior to single ended? What are some characteristics of the balanced HP out of the Jotunheim other than "its louder"?


 
  
 Yep. Balanced is not about volume, it's about better clarity, dynamics, stereo separation. Yes, you get 4x the power too and common mode noise rejection, so an even lower noise floor.


----------



## ToTo Man

mediahound said:


> Yep. Balanced is not about volume, it's about better clarity, dynamics, stereo separation. Yes, you get 4x the power too and common mode noise rejection, so an even lower noise floor.


 
 Indeed, I noted all of the above when I compared [Mjolnir 2 -> SE -> Ether] to [Mjolnir 2 -> balanced -> Ether].


----------



## Allanmarcus

coltmrfire said:


> So I have an opportunity to recable my T90 into XLR for the Jotunheim but it's gonna run me $150. I'm not interested in doing it myself.
> 
> Is the balanced connection really that superior to single ended? What are some characteristics of the balanced HP out of the Jotunheim other than "its louder"?


 

 Might as well sell the T90 and get a T1. I happen to have one, if you are interested. Also, I re-terminated it to balanced


----------



## gmahler2u

Hello.
  
 I just ordered the Jot last week, anyone got Bifrost with Uber setup?  What is your impression of sound with uber?  I'm asking because should I upgrade to M.B or not....Yes, I'm going to later but I like to know your opinion...
  
 Thank you


----------



## acguitar84

I just ordered HD650's (and a balanced cable) to go with the Jotunheim. I've enjoyed the Grado PS1000e with the Jot, but there are times the brightness of that headphone just becomes fatiguing. I thought about sending the PS1000e to Moon Audio and having them balanced, but I'm not sure that would make a difference? Probably make it even worse (the brightness). I didn't notice the brightness so much with the WA7 amp (which I still have). So I might have to set it back up as well. 
  
 But, in the meantime, I wanted to find a headphone that would pair better with the Jot (Especially since I love what the Jot has done with my speaker systems). So I went ahead and ordered the HD650, so I'll get a chance to see what everyone is talking about. I've read lots of good stuff about the HD650 that's for sure. Both on this thread and its main thread. One poster said by running it balanced with the Jot, it sounds really amazing, and that's what I'm looking for, with not as much treble fatigue (as I'm getting from the PS1000e and I've read people get with the HD800s). I have a set of AH-D2000's too, and in some ways I was preferring them over the PS1000e with the Jot. They are darker of course, and have quite a lot of bass. They don't have the sound stage and detail of the PS1000e, but they were easier on the ears without that brightness. I'm hoping the HD650 can be a sort of "endgame" for me, at least for the next couple of years. I really want to hear/and thought about trying to buy the Focal Utopia with a balanced cable and hearing it through the Jot, but I'm not ready to climb that 4000 foot mountain as of yet if you know what I mean.
  
 The 650 sounds like a good solid headphone. It once was Sennheiser's flagship I read someplace. Gosh, people with otherwise expensive stuff, like 7000 dollar amps, I've read in their profiles they're using the 650 as their main headphone, or one of them.
  
 So here goes, got my fingers crossed! I hope, as others have posted that they are a match made in heaven with the Jot (and the mimby feeding the Jot as the DAC)


----------



## StanD

coltmrfire said:


> So I have an opportunity to recable my T90 into XLR for the Jotunheim but it's gonna run me $150. I'm not interested in doing it myself.
> 
> Is the balanced connection really that superior to single ended? What are some characteristics of the balanced HP out of the Jotunheim other than "its louder"?


 

 Not really, IMO unless one expects this.


----------



## NikonGuy

acguitar84 said:


> I just ordered HD650's (and a balanced cable) to go with the Jotunheim. I've enjoyed the Grado PS1000e with the Jot, but there are times the brightness of that headphone just becomes fatiguing. I thought about sending the PS1000e to Moon Audio and having them balanced, but I'm not sure that would make a difference? Probably make it even worse (the brightness). I didn't notice the brightness so much with the WA7 amp (which I still have). So I might have to set it back up as well.
> 
> But, in the meantime, I wanted to find a headphone that would pair better with the Jot (Especially since I love what the Jot has done with my speaker systems). So I went ahead and ordered the HD650, so I'll get a chance to see what everyone is talking about. I've read lots of good stuff about the HD650 that's for sure. Both on this thread and its main thread. One poster said by running it balanced with the Jot, it sounds really amazing, and that's what I'm looking for, with not as much treble fatigue (as I'm getting from the PS1000e and I've read people get with the HD800s). I have a set of AH-D2000's too, and in some ways I was preferring them over the PS1000e with the Jot. They are darker of course, and have quite a lot of bass. They don't have the sound stage and detail of the PS1000e, but they were easier on the ears without that brightness. I'm hoping the HD650 can be a sort of "endgame" for me, at least for the next couple of years. I really want to hear/and thought about trying to buy the Focal Utopia with a balanced cable and hearing it through the Jot, but I'm not ready to climb that 4000 foot mountain as of yet if you know what I mean.
> 
> ...


 
 It is an exceptional paring balanced, I would advise you put 100 Hours on the 650's before you judge them, they really open up after this time and sound nothing like they do on first listen.


----------



## gmahler2u

nikonguy said:


> It is an exceptional paring balanced, I would advise you put 100 Hours on the 650's before you judge them, they really open up after this time and sound nothing like they do on first listen.


 
 Do you have internal Dac in your Jot?  I see you have MB modi.


----------



## NikonGuy

..


----------



## Allanmarcus

acguitar84 said:


> (Especially since I love what the Jot has done with my speaker systems).


 
  
 Other than the DAC, what value is the Jodie in the speaker chain? Or are you using it as a DAC for your speakers?


----------



## tekkster

cet1 said:


> Just FYI - The changing of the operating system to Sierra on my MacBook Pro did not change the static problem through the Jot.  Nice suggestion - but didn't work.  Guess will contact Schiit next week.  (Sorry I got some feathers ruffled up about being in this thread with my problem.  Just thought since my Jot was producing static, the Jot blog would be the place to get help.  Won't bother you again.)


 

 I just ordered the Wyrd.  Will test it out to see if it fixes the problems on OSX that I've been having.


----------



## acguitar84

nikonguy said:


> It is an exceptional paring balanced, I would advise you put 100 Hours on the 650's before you judge them, they really open up after this time and sound nothing like they do on first listen.


 
 I will, and thanks! I'm looking forward to it!
  


allanmarcus said:


> Other than the DAC, what value is the Jodie in the speaker chain? Or are you using it as a DAC for your speakers?


 
 I use it as a preamp for my powered monitors, and it made them sound better than they ever have. They are hooked in with balanced xlr cords. And for now, I'm using the Jots DAC as the Dac for right now, someday I'd like to hook either a gumby or yggy to it as the DAC (balanced as well). The bonus is, I can always use it as a headphone amp on my desktop rigs as well, so win win I suppose. On my headphone rig, that's where I'm using the mimby with the Jot. Only have one mimby and 3 Jots.


----------



## enginepartsguy

It was mentioned in the video for the Jotunheim not to be used with electrostatic headphones. I am using my Valhalla 2 with my Koss ESP950 using the 3.5mm input on the front of the energizer. I am disabled and sit in a recliner across the room from my TV and my electronic equipment. I have a super HD headphone extension cable that is plugged into the headphone jack on my Valhalla 2 and then plugged into the 3.5mm input on the front of the energizer. It works really well. Why couldn't I do the same with the Jotunheim?
Thanks! 
C.


----------



## Allanmarcus

enginepartsguy said:


> It was mentioned in the video for the Jotunheim not to be used with electrostatic headphones. I am using my Valhalla 2 with my Koss ESP950 using the 3.5mm input on the front of the energizer. I am disabled and sit in a recliner across the room from my TV and my electronic equipment. I have a super HD headphone extension cable that is plugged into the headphone jack on my Valhalla 2 and then plugged into the 3.5mm input on the front of the energizer. It works really well. Why couldn't I do the same with the Jotunheim?
> Thanks!
> C.


 

 You could. You would use the pre-outs from the jot to the Koss energizer. 
  
 The amp section is not for elecrostats, but the pre-amp out will work fine with any other amp. Your energizer is the thing that is amplifying the signal for the 950 headphones.


----------



## GearMe

acguitar84 said:


> snip...*Only have* one mimby and *3 Jots.*




No wonder there have been delivery delays!!! :eek:


----------



## acguitar84

gearme said:


> No wonder there have been delivery delays!!!


 
 Yeah I know   Sorry about that!


----------



## Sanlitun

tuneslover said:


> For those of you who own a Jotunheim just a quick question...does it also make a popping sound on initial startup? My Magni2U and Vali2 do.


 
  
 Mine does not and that is one of the reasons I am so enthusiastic about the Jot as it seems to be a step up in build quality over previous Schiit products.
  
 I have an Asgard 2 with a buzzing transformer and a Lyr that does a scary pop on shutdown so I had stayed away from Schiit stuff for a while until now.


----------



## enginepartsguy

allanmarcus said:


> You could. You would use the pre-outs from the jot to the Koss energizer.
> 
> The amp section is not for elecrostats, but the pre-amp out will work fine with any other amp. Your energizer is the thing that is amplifying the signal for the 950 headphones.


Thank you so much. I wrote the guys at Schiit and the person who answered me was actually like I was an idiot. I know all of the things you told me, I was just wanting to be sure. Thanks again.
C.(headphone junkie)


----------



## slex

Those having a phono stage, can you take a picture of the grounding termination behind?


----------



## Maelob

I am curious between JOT with DAc And MOJO - what sounds better as a complete package. I read comparisons as a DAC but not as a complete package. Will the amp of the jot offset the better DAc of Mojo. I know I could buy both but If I had to live with only one which one would you choose to drive Alpha Primes.


----------



## Voxata

Well, the Mojo is said to be tuned to be a bit laid back and uses the same 4490 as the Jot, however Jot is fully balanced. Downside is USB only.. To be honest, I'd just get yourself a Mimby for the Jot. My 4490 Bifrost didn't pair as well with Jot, however it was a match made in heaven with the Asgard 2.


----------



## Delayeed

voxata said:


> Well, the Mojo is said to be tuned to be a bit laid back and uses the same 4490 as the Jot, however Jot is fully balanced. Downside is USB only.. To be honest, I'd just get yourself a Mimby for the Jot. My 4490 Bifrost didn't pair as well with Jot, however it was a match made in heaven with the Asgard 2.


 
 Mojo uses a custom FPGA programmable DAC chip. It isn't an off the shelf DAC


----------



## GokceYLD

Hello,
  
 My uncle will be traveling to US and I am trying to decide for a DAC/AMP for my HD650s.. Unfortunately I will not have the option of returning the device in case I wont be happy with the sound. So for days I am reading lots of reviews and scratching my head to decide on something that wont upset me. 
  
 right now I only have apogee groove and I must say I am not much impressed partnered with hd650s. I also have Beoplay H6 ( I loove them ) and they become even much better when partnered with apogee..  
  
 So I need something that will bring up the full potential of hd650s. 
  
 I would love to hear what are yours magic DAC/AMP partner with the hd650s. 
  
 I see that Jotunheim said to be well partnered with the HD650s and the price is reasonable for me but would there be other amp/dac combinations for a price up to 500-600 usd range that would be better option then the Jotunheim ? 
  
 I read about Audeze Deckard to be also a good one but could not find much reviews partnered with the hd650s. 
  
 any comments, suggestions welcomed. 
  
 thanks.


----------



## oldschool

gokceyld said:


> I see that Jotunheim said to be well partnered with the HD650s and the price is reasonable for me but would there be other amp/dac combinations for a price up to 500-600 usd range that would be better option then the Jotunheim ?


 
  
 I would also look at the Audio-GD products. The NFB-28/29H should be pretty good.


----------



## Tuneslover

sanlitun said:


> Mine does not and that is one of the reasons I am so enthusiastic about the Jot as it seems to be a step up in build quality over previous Schiit products.
> 
> I have an Asgard 2 with a buzzing transformer and a Lyr that does a scary pop on shutdown so I had stayed away from Schiit stuff for a while until now.




I'm happy for you that your Jot does not pop on startup but one other person responded that his Jot does pop like all other Schiit Amps. If I do decide to pull the trigger on one I hope I get one like you.


----------



## Letmebefrank

tuneslover said:


> I'm happy for you that your Jot does not pop on startup but one other person responded that his Jot does pop like all other Schiit Amps. If I do decide to pull the trigger on one I hope I get one like you.






letmebefrank said:


> Absolutely zero pop/noise when turning on the Jot. HD650s plugged into Balanced output. Mine is the amp only. I'm wondering if having the DAC module makes it pop...




Just incase you missed it.


----------



## tekkster

maelob said:


> I am curious between JOT with DAc And MOJO - what sounds better as a complete package. I read comparisons as a DAC but not as a complete package. Will the amp of the jot offset the better DAc of Mojo. I know I could buy both but If I had to live with only one which one would you choose to drive Alpha Primes.


 

 Deleted....Mis-read the question.

 You were asking about the Jot DAC vs. the Mojo DAC.
 For that....I can't tell much difference.  My ears are nowhere near as sensitive compared to most folks here.


----------



## KLJTech

If any amp you own pops or makes any sort of noise when turned on why not simply wait until it's on until you plug in your headphones? With speaker based system you have to turn on your source gear and preamp and then wait a few seconds before turning on your amp so that no turn on transient hits your speakers. None of this is a big deal, it's been this way for as long as I can remember.


----------



## ToTo Man

kljtech said:


> If any amp you own pops or makes any sort of noise when turned on why not simply wait until it's on until you plug in your headphones? With speaker based system you have to turn on your source gear and preamp and then wait a few seconds before turning on your amp so that no turn on transient hits your speakers. None of this is a big deal, it's been this way for as long as I can remember.


 
 Whatever happened to muting relays?, a really important feature of a well-designed amp IMO.  Amplifiers that don't have these drive me nuts!  This is not a dig at Schiit in particular, but at amplifier manufacturers in general.  e.g. my Quad 909 power amp 'thumps' when switched on and switched off.  What am I supposed to do, crawl around the back of my speakers and disconnect them every time I want to switch the amp on or off??!!


----------



## rsnblmn

toto man said:


> Whatever happened to muting relays?, a really important feature of a well-designed amp IMO.  Amplifiers that don't have these drive me nuts!  This is not a dig at Schiit in particular, but at amplifier manufacturers in general.


 
  
 Agreed.  That's why Schiit amps have them.


----------



## KLJTech

I've owned a few speaker amps over the years that would cause a thump to hit my speakers and while I didn't like it I ended up just leaving them on all the time. It would scare you a bit if you were using ribbon speakers like my old Apogee Stages. My only point is that it's nothing new and at times you have to work around what gear you're using. It's not a big deal (IMO) with headphones as they can be so easily unplugged.


----------



## tekkster

Finally got OS X Yosemite (10.10.5) working.
  
 That same laptop was running El Capitan, and was having the same problems as my iMac.  But now it's all cleared up.

 The Jot DAC works now.  no popping, no static every few seconds, and the background noise when compared to using just the Jot amp without the DAC is basically gone (really, it's louder, so I turn the volume lower, closer to 10pm when using balanced HD800, or 11pm when using SE T1).

 At least for me, the Jot DAC problems I was having previously are now confirmed as OS X El Capitan (10.11) and Sierra (10.12) doing something funky to the USB Audio ports.  I purchased the Wyrd, looks like it shipped today.  Still don't know if the Wyrd will fix things for El Capitan and Sierra.  A lot of folks are saying it won't, so not holding out too much hope.  I guess I'll need to buy another DAC at some point with optical audio in, but one step at a time.


 ----
 EDIT....Hmmmm....nope.  Something is still wrong.  Now there is some strange grating that happens in sync with higher notes.  Is that what is called distortion?  Because it happens only when in sync with higher notes, and not independently of the music playing (like the static with El Capitan and Sierra), would it be possible that it is a DAC issue?  I dunno....for now, guess I'm stuck with optical audio to Mojo and SE to Jot again.....back to the drawing board, as they say....


----------



## tamleo

voxata said:


> Well, the Mojo is said to be tuned to be a bit laid back and uses the same 4490 as the Jot, however Jot is fully balanced. Downside is USB only.. To be honest, I'd just get yourself a Mimby for the Jot. My 4490 Bifrost didn't pair as well with Jot, however it was a match made in heaven with the Asgard 2.


 
 Hi,
 Can you tell me why the Bifrost 4490 does not suit the Jot but pair very well with the Asgard 2? Thanks


----------



## murphythecat

youth said:


> Why not make it a 1000 hours? Just to be sure.


 
 cause after 100 hours, very little change in sound is to be expected.
 but they need break in.


----------



## StanD

tamleo said:


> Hi,
> Can you tell me why the Bifrost 4490 does not suit the Jot but pair very well with the Asgard 2? Thanks


 

 Anecdotes.


----------



## pdferguson

tekkster said:


> ----
> EDIT....Hmmmm....nope.  Something is still wrong.  Now there is some strange grating that happens in sync with higher notes.  Is that what is called distortion?  Because it happens only when in sync with higher notes, and not independently of the music playing (like the static with El Capitan and Sierra), would it be possible that it is a DAC issue?  I dunno....for now, guess I'm stuck with optical audio to Mojo and SE to Jot again.....back to the drawing board, as they say....


 
  
 Is the bitrate/depth of your USB connection set to match the source file? Are you listening to 44.1/16 music, or higher fidelity (e.g. 192/24) files? If there is a mismatch, I could see how you might experience distortion like you describe.
  
 I'm also curious whether people who are experiencing USB pops on macOS are listening to 44.1/16 files or something higher.


----------



## tekkster

pdferguson said:


> Is the bitrate/depth of your USB connection set to match the source file? Are you listening to 44.1/16 music, or higher fidelity (e.g. 192/24) files? If there is a mismatch, I could see how you might experience distortion like you describe.
> 
> I'm also curious whether people who are experiencing USB pops on macOS are listening to 44.1/16 files or something higher.


 

 Good question.  Not sure.  The majority of my files are 44.1/16, though I have a bunch at 96/24, and a fair number at 2.82MHz/1.  Bitrates are all over the place, from 16kbps - 5650kpbs.  The high note distortions are noticeable at both 44.1/16 and 96/24.  Mostly Keiko Matsui, Charles Parker, Yamanaka, some Yanni, Uehara.

 I have no idea how to set the USB to match the source file.  

 It's okay, I can deal with optical audio.  My ears aren't good enough to tell much of a difference anyway.  It's only a bummer because I want to leave the Mojo out of the chain.  Though...really...I'm okay with going iMac SE out to Jot SE in, in a pinch.


----------



## pdferguson

tekkster said:


> I have no idea how to set the USB to match the source file.


 
  
 You can view/change this using the _Audio MIDI Setup _utility in macOS. If you are using iTunes, it does not automatically adjust this based on the source file, so it is worth knowing about this utility. If the USB port is set to one setting, and the source file is different, iTunes will up/down sample to match the USB port, which can result in distortion (this is one of my pet peeves with iTunes.)
  


> It's okay, I can deal with optical audio.  My ears aren't good enough to tell much of a difference anyway.


 
  
 I strongly prefer optical, not because it has any audible difference (in theory it shouldn't), but because of the electrical isolation it provides between the Mac and a DAC. If Schiit were to release an optical card for the Jotunheim, I would buy one tomorrow.


----------



## JLoud

pdferguson said:


> tekkster said:
> 
> 
> > ----
> ...


 
 I'm using latest OS on a new iMac and haven't experienced any issues.  16/44.1 up to 24/192.  Jot with on board dac.


----------



## Tuneslover

toto man said:


> Whatever happened to muting relays?, a really important feature of a well-designed amp IMO.  Amplifiers that don't have these drive me nuts!  This is not a dig at Schiit in particular, but at amplifier manufacturers in general.  e.g. my Quad 909 power amp 'thumps' when switched on and switched off.  What am I supposed to do, crawl around the back of my speakers and disconnect them every time I want to switch the amp on or off??!!


 
 Exactly!
  
 Yes of course I could reach around and make sure that each powered speaker is off and after the amp has turned on reach around each speaker again to turn it on.  The headphones themselves, sure I can ensure that they are unplugged beforehand too and then plug them in when the amp is ready, oh and then remember to unplug them after I'm finished listening.
  
 And then there's my wife who confuses easily with anything to do with audio.
  
 It's 2016, hello!


----------



## tekkster

pdferguson said:


> You can view/change this using the _Audio MIDI Setup _utility in macOS. If you are using iTunes, it does not automatically adjust this based on the source file, so it is worth knowing about this utility. If the USB port is set to one setting, and the source file is different, iTunes will up/down sample to match the USB port, which can result in distortion (this is one of my pet peeves with iTunes.)
> 
> 
> I strongly prefer optical, not because it has any audible difference (in theory it shouldn't), but because of the electrical isolation it provides between the Mac and a DAC. If Schiit were to release an optical card for the Jotunheim, I would buy one tomorrow.


 

 Sweet.  Will check it out.  Thanks.


----------



## gmahler2u

I just got the Jot, right now I'm playing pink noise.  With the internal Dac, I'm still blown by it!  I'll share the inpression after 100 hrs.


----------



## Allanmarcus

gmahler2u said:


> I just got the Jot, right now I'm playing pink noise.  With the internal Dac, I'm still blown by it!  I'll share the inpression after 100 hrs.


 

 *sigh*


----------



## ColtMrFire

Got to compare Jot to some other TOTL amps today. Black Widow and Ragnarok.

Jot is truly impressive. Technically it was a better amp then either BW or Rag. 

But BW was so fun! It has an amazing tone and quality. It had a warmth that was so engaging. Jotunheim is much more neutral in comparison. 

Ragnarok didn't impress me much. I felt like Jotunheim did everything better. Ragnarok was a bit messy/splashy in the highs that was kind of off putting. 

Jotunheim is truly amazing. But anybody who owns a Black Widow should consider themselves blessed.


----------



## Mr Rick

I've been out-of-pocket for a few months so please excuse me if this has been discussed before.
  
 The Jot would seem to be an excellent preamp for a basic speaker and headphone system. Is anyone using it with a bare bones amplifier with balanced inputs??  If so, what amp, and what are your impressions??


----------



## wasupdog

what's the best budget dac setup with the jot?  mimby or bimby?


----------



## ColtMrFire

Have not heard the Bimby but I did demo the Yggy and the difference between the
Mimby and Yggy was not huge, which says it all considering there is a $2,000 difference between the two. Mimby is amazing for the money.


----------



## gmahler2u

I'm upgrading to bimby and right now I'm in waiting line...can't wait to hear the biMby!


----------



## Alchemist007

coltmrfire said:


> Ragnarok didn't impress me much. I felt like Jotunheim did everything better. Ragnarok was a bit messy/splashy in the highs that was kind of off putting.


 
 That's impressive, what headphones?


----------



## theveterans

gmahler2u said:


> I'm upgrading to bimby and right now I'm in waiting line...can't wait to hear the biMby!


 
  
 Your HD800 will absolutely sound musical with the Bimby


----------



## ColtMrFire

alchemist007 said:


> That's impressive, what headphones?




My T90 and his HD800+800S.


----------



## Maelob

tekkster said:


> Deleted....Mis-read the question.
> 
> 
> You were asking about the Jot DAC vs. the Mojo DAC.
> ...



I meant not as DAC only but as a whole DAC/amp package- meaning if i connect the same headphone to the Mojo and to the Jot which one will sound better if you have to live with only one box. Havent seen too many direct comparisons.


----------



## gmahler2u

theveterans said:


> Your HD800 will absolutely sound musical with the Bimby


 
 I can't wait, I think with the internal Dac's already impressing me...however, that's brief listening...we'll see.


----------



## Kenneth Tang

maelob said:


> I meant not as DAC only but as a whole DAC/amp package- meaning if i connect the same headphone to the Mojo and to the Jot which one will sound better if you have to live with only one box. Havent seen too many direct comparisons.


 
 Yes. It has been suggested that either mojo or jotunheim is a good DAC+AMP combo for most headphones. But I simply can not find any direct comparison between these two combo. Would anybody having these 2 combos please share your comments especially on driving big cans? Thanks in advance.


----------



## gmahler2u

kenneth tang said:


> Yes. It has been suggested that either mojo or jotunheim is a good DAC+AMP combo for most headphones. But I simply can not find any direct comparison between these two combo. Would anybody having these 2 combos please share your comments especially on driving big cans? Thanks in advance.


 
 I have this combo, but I can't say much because I just got this and burning process.  However, initial listening session, just blow me away.


----------



## mourip

gokceyld said:


> Hello,
> 
> My uncle will be traveling to US and I am trying to decide for a DAC/AMP for my HD650s.. Unfortunately I will not have the option of returning the device in case I wont be happy with the sound. So for days I am reading lots of reviews and scratching my head to decide on something that wont upset me.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I recently got a Jot and have it paired with my Yggy via balanced IC's. It probably has about 75 hours of music played through it by now and seems to be mostly settled in.
  
 I have tried it with Spirit Labs Magnums (excellent Franken-Grados), MrSpeakers Primes, and HD650's. My 650's are probably 10 years old and have Stephen AudioArt Equinox cables. The other two HP's are very new and probably just getting broken in.
  
 Today I re-terminated the HD650's with a 4 pin balanced connector and gave them a try. I was basically blown away. The Jot just commands them. I have never heard them play so well with both small delicate ensembles and big orchestral music as well. I would say that the HD650s were an excellent match for the Jot.


----------



## nerone

kljtech said:


> If any amp you own pops or makes any sort of noise when turned on why not simply wait until it's on until you plug in your headphones? With speaker based system you have to turn on your source gear and preamp and then wait a few seconds before turning on your amp so that no turn on transient hits your speakers. None of this is a big deal, it's been this way for as long as I can remember.


 
  
 Considering Jot's manual information, the amp has a muting delay circuit. So what is the point of having the circuit if it is not properly doing what it is supposed to do? If it is not doing, the issue might be addressed by Schiit. Or we could get a little lower price if the circuit was not there at all.
 Perhaps the circuit is doing what it is supposed to do and the small pop or thump is not nearly enough to make any harm to the headphones? I think maybe someone at Schiit could give some advice.
 Also, I do get that you are supposed to turn the source first, then the preamp and the power amp at last. But haven't you ever experienced any sort of drop out from your mains voltage for a very shot time?
 Here you can read what Pete Millett thinks about it: http://www.pmillett.com/muting_relay_pcb.html
  
 Please, don't get me wrong as English is not my native language and I don't want to sound harsh. I'm just trying to give another point of view to the conversation.


----------



## acguitar84

mourip said:


> I recently got a Jot and have it paired with my Yggy via balanced IC's. It probably has about 75 hours of music played through it by now and seems to be mostly settled in.
> 
> I have tried it with Spirit Labs Magnums (excellent Franken-Grados), MrSpeakers Primes, and HD650's. My 650's are probably 10 years old and have Stephen AudioArt Equinox cables. The other two HP's are very new and probably just getting broken in.
> 
> Today I re-terminated the HD650's with a 4 pin balanced connector and gave them a try. I was basically blown away. The Jot just commands them. I have never heard them play so well with both small delicate ensembles and big orchestral music as well. I would say that the HD650s were an excellent match for the Jot.




Listening tonight with my new hd650 with a balanced cable into the jot, and am having a similar reaction. Sounds really good! I only have the mimby though, not the Yggy. I'm really thinking of getting a Gumby for this setup.


----------



## KLJTech

nerone said:


> Considering Jot's manual information, the amp has a muting delay circuit. So what is the point of having the circuit if it is not properly doing what it is supposed to do? If it is not doing, the issue might be addressed by Schiit. Or we could get a little lower price if the circuit was not there at all.
> Perhaps the circuit is doing what it is supposed to do and the small pop or thump is not nearly enough to make any harm to the headphones? I think maybe someone at Schiit could give some advice.
> Also, I do get that you are supposed to turn the source first, then the preamp and the power amp at last. But haven't you ever experienced any sort of drop out from your mains voltage for a very shot time?
> Here you can read what Pete Millett thinks about it: http://www.pmillett.com/muting_relay_pcb.html
> ...


 
  
 You don't sound harsh at all, and I was simply trying (maybe poorly) to point out that those of us that have been at this since the mid to late 80's got used to working around things like pops or thumps from our speaker amps. If the manual says that there should be no pop nor thump then I would contact Schiit to see what they say as I've always found them to be extremely helpful. My main point was that headphones are much easier to unplug from their amp than speakers from a bulky stereo speaker amp. Why not simply wait a bit before plugging your headphones in after you've turned on your amp and then unplug them once you're done listening for the day...or simply leave your amp on all the time? I leave all my gear on 24/7...other than my subs that power down on their own after 10 minutes or so of non-use. 
  
 Good luck and I hope you get the issue resolved after finding out what Schiit has to say on the subject. Enjoy your music!


----------



## ToddRaymond

allanmarcus said:


> *sigh*




*sigh*


----------



## Allanmarcus

wasupdog said:


> what's the best budget dac setup with the jot?  mimby or bimby?




Best budget DAC is the $100 add on DAC . Best budget DAC between the mimby and bimby is the mimby as its significantly cheaper and very close to the bimby.


----------



## GokceYLD

mourip said:


> I recently got a Jot and have it paired with my Yggy via balanced IC's. It probably has about 75 hours of music played through it by now and seems to be mostly settled in.
> 
> I have tried it with Spirit Labs Magnums (excellent Franken-Grados), MrSpeakers Primes, and HD650's. My 650's are probably 10 years old and have Stephen AudioArt Equinox cables. The other two HP's are very new and probably just getting broken in.
> 
> Today I re-terminated the HD650's with a 4 pin balanced connector and gave them a try. I was basically blown away. The Jot just commands them. I have never heard them play so well with both small delicate ensembles and big orchestral music as well. I would say that the HD650s were an excellent match for the Jot.


 
  
 so you have used Yggdrasil as DAC with JOT ? .. Sorry to ask but I am a bit foreign to the abbreviations in English. If that is the case, what is your suggestions just with the JOT since that will be my both DAC and amp. I will also get the balanced cable if I go with the JOT.. As far as I see in reviews, it does make a noticeable difference compared to straight connection.


----------



## Jiggybutt

I have memory of someone trying 560 with Jot and had balanced cable, but can't seem to find the post now. Is the balanced output a big difference in quality? I'm thinking about building my own balanced cable. Trying to hear diffenence between high and low gain. For now I favour high, but can't tell why, might just be bias and the volume change.


----------



## mourip

gokceyld said:


> so you have used Yggdrasil as DAC with JOT ? .. Sorry to ask but I am a bit foreign to the abbreviations in English. If that is the case, what is your suggestions just with the JOT since that will be my both DAC and amp. I will also get the balanced cable if I go with the JOT.. As far as I see in reviews, it does make a noticeable difference compared to straight connection.


 


jiggybutt said:


> I have memory of someone trying 560 with Jot and had balanced cable, but can't seem to find the post now. Is the balanced output a big difference in quality? I'm thinking about building my own balanced cable. Trying to hear diffenence between high and low gain. For now I favour high, but can't tell why, might just be bias and the volume change.


 
  
 Yes. I was using the Yggdrasil. I am using balanced IC's between DAC and amp and also balanced wiring to my HP's. My Jot does not have the built-in DAC. I think that using the balanced output made a nice difference. I will probably re-terminate my other HP's to balanced also and then make a balanced-to-TRS pigtail for use on other non-balanced amps. If you decide to re-terminate then be sure that your cord has 4 wires and not 3 which some single input HP's have.
  
 I have my amp set on low gain as that allows me to keep my input signal high for a better signal to noise ratio. I will try "high" but right now the volume control seems to be in about the optimal middle of it's sweep while listening.
  
 The Jot as an amp is so good that it will be interesting to see what Schiit does with the rest of their amp lineup...


----------



## StanD

nerone said:


> Considering Jot's manual information, the amp has a muting delay circuit. So what is the point of having the circuit if it is not properly doing what it is supposed to do? If it is not doing, the issue might be addressed by Schiit. Or we could get a little lower price if the circuit was not there at all.
> Perhaps the circuit is doing what it is supposed to do and the small pop or thump is not nearly enough to make any harm to the headphones? I think maybe someone at Schiit could give some advice.
> Also, I do get that you are supposed to turn the source first, then the preamp and the power amp at last. But haven't you ever experienced any sort of drop out from your mains voltage for a very shot time?
> Here you can read what Pete Millett thinks about it: http://www.pmillett.com/muting_relay_pcb.html
> ...


 

 Are you turning on your DAC or upstream source after the Jot is already on?


----------



## nerone

stand said:


> Are you turning on your DAC or upstream source after the Jot is already on?




Sorry if I made you think that I have the Jot. I don`t have it yet, but I`m seriously thinking about buying one and the concern I have about the pop or thump on startup is due to previous experience I had with a Valhalla 2 and due to a current Vali 2 that I have. The Vali2 does just the start thump, but the Valhalla2 had thumps on the preamplifier outputs during usage, way after the startup time, and these thumps freaked me out as the speakers did very scary excursions.

I do turn my equipament DAC first then Headphone amp/Preamp and power amp as the last one. But as Pete Millett said: what if you have a brief mains power loss and doesn`t have the time to turn the amp off or unplug your headphones?
I wouldn't be very happy, specially considering that where I live customs taxes are 100% the value of the goods being imported, so a blown $1700 LCD-X would cost me $3400. 

I`m not saying that having the startup pop/thump will be a deal breaker, but is something I will consider. I'm mainly waiting for more reviews and saving the money before I buy one.


----------



## GokceYLD

mourip said:


> Yes. I was using the Yggdrasil. I am using balanced IC's between DAC and amp and also balanced wiring to my HP's. My Jot does not have the built-in DAC. I think that using the balanced output made a nice difference. I will probably re-terminate my other HP's to balanced also and then make a balanced-to-TRS pigtail for use on other non-balanced amps. If you decide to re-terminate then be sure that your cord has 4 wires and not 3 which some single input HP's have.
> 
> I have my amp set on low gain as that allows me to keep my input signal high for a better signal to noise ratio. I will try "high" but right now the volume control seems to be in about the optimal middle of it's sweep while listening.
> 
> The Jot as an amp is so good that it will be interesting to see what Schiit does with the rest of their amp lineup...


 
  
 There could be better options but I will probably go with Sennheiser's own balanced cable for HD650's.


----------



## BarDash

kljtech said:


> You don't sound harsh at all, and I was simply trying (maybe poorly) to point out that those of us that have been at this since the mid to late 80's got used to working around things like pops or thumps from our speaker amps. If the manual says that there should be no pop nor thump then I would contact Schiit to see what they say as I've always found them to be extremely helpful. My main point was that headphones are much easier to unplug from their amp than speakers from a bulky stereo speaker amp. Why not simply wait a bit before plugging your headphones in after you've turned on your amp and then unplug them once you're done listening for the day...or simply leave your amp on all the time? I leave all my gear on 24/7...other than my subs that power down on their own after 10 minutes or so of non-use.
> 
> Good luck and I hope you get the issue resolved after finding out what Schiit has to say on the subject. Enjoy your music!



Would turning the volume down on the Jot help alleviate some of the 'thump"? I'd try it myself but currently away from home.


----------



## StanD

nerone said:


> Sorry if I made you think that I have the Jot. I don`t have it yet, but I`m seriously thinking about buying one and the concern I have about the pop or thump on startup is due to previous experience I had with a Valhalla 2 and due to a current Vali 2 that I have. The Vali2 does just the start thump, but the Valhalla2 had thumps on the preamplifier outputs during usage, way after the startup time, and these thumps freaked me out as the speakers did very scary excursions.
> 
> I do turn my equipament DAC first then Headphone amp/Preamp and power amp as the last one. But as Pete Millett said: what if you have a brief mains power loss and doesn`t have the time to turn the amp off or unplug your headphones?
> I wouldn't be very happy, specially considering that where I live customs taxes are 100% the value of the goods being imported, so a blown $1700 LCD-X would cost me $3400.
> ...


 
 Those large thumps seem unusual, perhaps you have a cable or jack/plug that is intermittently breaking connection and causing this. You might try jiggling the cable and shifting the plugs in their sockets and see what happens.


----------



## Soundizer

Is Jot good as a standalone system without connection to another DAC? The reason I ask is on this thread there is much reference and praise for other Dac's into the Jot which may suggest that the Jot internal Dac is compromised?

I am hoping it has a good DAC as i do not intend to add another DAC to it in the short term (next 6-12months).


----------



## Atavax

soundizer said:


> Is Jot good as a standalone system without connection to another DAC? The reason I ask is on this thread there is much reference and praise for other Dac's into the Jot which may suggest that the Jot internal Dac is compromised?
> 
> I am hoping it has a good DAC as i do not intend to add another DAC to it in the short term (next 6-12months).


 

 idk, if you look at the FAQ on their site, they insist it isn't an amp with DAC slapped in or vice versa. I don't think its like a $400 amp with an optional $100 DAC, but like a $500 amp/dac that can be easily modded, in fact they can ship it to you without a functioning DAC if you want to save $100 and don't intend to use the DAC.


----------



## Allanmarcus

soundizer said:


> Is Jot good as a standalone system without connection to another DAC? The reason I ask is on this thread there is much reference and praise for other Dac's into the Jot which may suggest that the Jot internal Dac is compromised?
> 
> I am hoping it has a good DAC as i do not intend to add another DAC to it in the short term (next 6-12months).


 

 The internal DAC is a very good DAC. Many people like to use different DACs for many reasons. They may already have one or they prefer the sound of a different one, or they like the look of a different one, or whatever. The great thing about the way Schiit is selling the Jodie is that you can decide if you want/need the DAC, and if you do, you get a good, balanced DAC for $100; one that doesn't even take up any desk space. If you don't want it, you save $100.


----------



## comzee

allanmarcus said:


> The internal DAC is a very good DAC.


 
 I respectfully disagree.


----------



## Night01

comzee said:


> I respectfully disagree.


 
 I'm also interested in this as I can't decide whether i should get the amp with or without the dac. Could you elaborate why you disagree? Ty.


----------



## Alchemist007

Hmm, I started getting really distorted and staticy sound from the Jot, didn't matter if it was foobar or youtube. I never had this problem with any other amp. Restarted the computer and it sounded normal again. What would cause that?


----------



## Tomasz2D

maelob said:


> I am curious between JOT with DAc And MOJO - what sounds better as a complete package. I read comparisons as a DAC but not as a complete package. Will the amp of the jot offset the better DAc of Mojo. I know I could buy both but If I had to live with only one which one would you choose to drive Alpha Primes.


 
  


kenneth tang said:


> Yes. It has been suggested that either mojo or jotunheim is a good DAC+AMP combo for most headphones. But I simply can not find any direct comparison between these two combo. Would anybody having these 2 combos please share your comments especially on driving big cans? Thanks in advance.


 
 Schiit Jotunheim vs. Chord Mojo
 They two sound very different from each other. Jot extends farther both into bass and treble side and draws with more delicate and thiner line that leaves more space for air and creates deeper soundstage. Mojo has more focused sound and draws with thicker line. Jot sound is more dynamic and lively than Mojo's. I find acoustic instruments sound more true in Jot and in Mojo they sound bit more digital and oversweetened than in Jot. Jot pairs better with neutral to warm headphones and Mojo pairs better with neutral to bright headphones. I tried both Jot and Mojo with different tracks and can't tell you which one is better because it really varied from track to track.


----------



## comzee

night01 said:


> I'm also interested in this as I can't decide whether i should get the amp with or without the dac. Could you elaborate why you disagree? Ty.


 

 Get it without the DAC module, I'd recommend either Modi 2 multibit or Dragonfly Red as a DAC.


----------



## nerone

stand said:


> Those large thumps seem unusual, perhaps you have a cable or jack/plug that is intermittently breaking connection and causing this. You might try jiggling the cable and shifting the plugs in their sockets and see what happens.


 
  
 Thanks for the tip, but this is not the case. I already sold the Valhalla, but I compared with my Musical Fidelity M1HPAp in the exact same system without any pop or thump. Vali2 just does a pop at start up, either on speakers or headphones, but I could use it if I turned it on before the power amplifier and headphones unplugged.
 At the time I contacted Schiit to see if my Valhalla could be defective, but they said the behaviour was considered normal for a tube amp.


----------



## bavinck

tomasz2d said:


> Schiit Jotunheim vs. Chord Mojo
> They two sound very different from each other. *Jot extends farther both into bass and treble side and draws with more delicate and thiner line that leaves more space for air and creates deeper soundstage. Mojo has more focused sound and draws with thicker line.* Jot sound is more dynamic and lively than Mojo's. I find acoustic instruments sound more true in Jot and in Mojo they sound bit more digital and oversweetened than in Jot. Jot pairs better with neutral to warm headphones and Mojo pairs better with neutral to bright headphones. I tried both Jot and Mojo with different tracks and can't tell you which one is better because it really varied from track to track.


 
 Excellent description!


----------



## gmahler2u

allanmarcus said:


> The internal DAC is a very good DAC. Many people like to use different DACs for many reasons. They may already have one or they prefer the sound of a different one, or they like the look of a different one, or whatever. The great thing about the way Schiit is selling the Jodie is that you can decide if you want/need the DAC, and if you do, you get a good, balanced DAC for $100; one that doesn't even take up any desk space. If you don't want it, you save $100.


 
 +1


----------



## Allanmarcus

alchemist007 said:


> Hmm, I started getting really distorted and staticy sound from the Jot, didn't matter if it was foobar or youtube. I never had this problem with any other amp. Restarted the computer and it sounded normal again. What would cause that?


 

 Sounds like the issue with with the DAC, not the amp. If you have another DAC, or even the line out on the sound card or computer, connect it directly to the line in of the Jodie. If you still get static, then it's possibly the amp. 
  
 If you think it's the DAC, try a difference USB cable, a difference USB port, or even a different computer. Finally, contact Schiit support to see if they have a solution.


----------



## mourip

atavax said:


> idk, if you look at the FAQ on their site, they insist it isn't an amp with DAC slapped in or vice versa. I don't think its like a $400 amp with an optional $100 DAC, but like a $500 amp/dac that can be easily modded, in fact they can ship it to you without a functioning DAC if you want to save $100 and don't intend to use the DAC.


 
  
 I already had good DACs so I bought it as a standalone amp. It punches way above it's class as an amp.


----------



## Alchemist007

allanmarcus said:


> Sounds like the issue with with the DAC, not the amp. If you have another DAC, or even the line out on the sound card or computer, connect it directly to the line in of the Jodie. If you still get static, then it's possibly the amp.
> 
> If you think it's the DAC, try a difference USB cable, a difference USB port, or even a different computer. Finally, contact Schiit support to see if they have a solution.


 

 It's the internal DAC. What confusing is restarting the computer fixed the problem, though I want to avoid that if possible. The USB cable is an old one I had lying around. Any recommended cables?


----------



## tekkster

soundizer said:


> Is Jot good as a standalone system without connection to another DAC? The reason I ask is on this thread there is much reference and praise for other Dac's into the Jot which may suggest that the Jot internal Dac is compromised?
> 
> I am hoping it has a good DAC as i do not intend to add another DAC to it in the short term (next 6-12months).


 

 Seems some say it's fine, others say it's not so good.

 But for a mere extra $100, you have an all-in-one.  You don't have to use it, but can't see a reason why you wouldn't get it.  

 I have it, and off of my Windows machine, it works just fine.  Is it great?  I dunno what a great DAC is, so, shrugging shoulders.  But it works, it works fine, and certainly sounds better than going from my Windows 3.5 SE to the Jot SE (My Macs are having USB issues).  Though right now, I'm using the Mojo DAC in between, it's only because I'm setup with optical audio, and the Jot DAC is USB only.  If you prefer USB audio, then why not?  Gonna be better than an Mac's or Windows internal DAC either way, right?

 You probably have much better ears than I do, but since my ears are only so-so -> In terms of hardware affecting sound, for me at least, it's:  headphone comparisons have the biggest delta in sound, amp comparisons have the second biggest delta, and DACs seem to have the least.  I've been told that high-end DACs make a noticeable difference, but given that I'm not ready to blow wads of cash at a high-end integrated DAC/amp, or a separate high-end DAC, I'm happy with the Jot DAC.

 For the Jot, the amp is such a surprisingly big difference, and can drive all my headphones really well (okay, the HD800 is not that fun), so comparing the Mojo amp to the Jot amp, the difference is significant enough that at home, I don't use the Mojo as a stand alone.  Until I can afford a high-end DAC, the Jot DAC will serve just fine, since the Jot amp is so good.

 Also, I dunno much about DACs, but, with the integrated Jot DAC-Jot amp, the noise floor is really low.  It's much lower than when placing the Mojo DAC in between the computer and the Jot, where you have to use the SE out of the Mojo into RCA in of the Jot.  The noise floor with the Mojo in between is surprisingly high.  (Given that the Mojo's noise floor is so low).

 ----

 Random thoughts from a cheap person with 15kHz max hearing


----------



## Tuneslover

stand said:


> Those large thumps seem unusual, perhaps you have a cable or jack/plug that is intermittently breaking connection and causing this. You might try jiggling the cable and shifting the plugs in their sockets and see what happens.




Nope I think this issue is Schiit related. Both my Magni2U and Vali2 pop on startup.


----------



## MWSVette

allanmarcus said:


> The internal DAC is a very good DAC. Many people like to use different DACs for many reasons. They may already have one or they prefer the sound of a different one, or they like the look of a different one, or whatever. The great thing about the way Schiit is selling the Jodie is that you can decide if you want/need the DAC, and if you do, you get a good, balanced DAC for $100; one that doesn't even take up any desk space. If you don't want it, you save $100.


 
  
  


comzee said:


> I respectfully disagree.


 
  
 I think it is a very good $100.00 DAC.  It is not a $250.00 Mimby, a $600.00  Bimby, a $1249.00 Gumby or a $2299. Yggy.
  
 It is however a very good $100.00 balanced dual 4490 delta sigma DAC.


----------



## GearMe

comzee said:


> I respectfully disagree.




What $100 DAC would you recommend over it?


----------



## Allanmarcus

alchemist007 said:


> allanmarcus said:
> 
> 
> > Sounds like the issue with with the DAC, not the amp. If you have another DAC, or even the line out on the sound card or computer, connect it directly to the line in of the Jodie. If you still get static, then it's possibly the amp.
> ...


 

 lots of audiophiles recommend the Belkin gold cable:
  
  
 https://www.amazon.com/Belkin-F3U133V-06-GLD-6-Foot-Hi-Speed-Cable/dp/B000621N26


----------



## Atavax

I guess the question is if the DAC was standalone, what price would it need to be to be able to recommend it? Lots seem to think it's pretty good for $100; is it good for a $150, or $200 dac?


----------



## StanD

tuneslover said:


> Nope I think this issue is Schiit related. Both my Magni2U and Vali2 pop on startup.


 

 nerone said, "Valhalla2 had thumps on the preamplifier outputs" of which he said that "Schiit replied this was normal behavior."


----------



## vilhelm44

Is anyone using the Jotunheim and Modi Multibit with the Focal Elear's?  I have the Elear's and thinking about getting this set-up.


----------



## Clemmaster

The DAC is quite sensitive to USB power. No wonder people's opinion vary so much.
  
 USB "quality" is all over the place.


----------



## Tuneslover

stand said:


> nerone said, "Valhalla2 had thumps on the preamplifier outputs" of which he said that "Schiit replied this was normal behavior."




Both my Magni and Vali amps pop through the preamp output (heard coming out of my powered speakers) and headphone output. With or without a DAC connected.

I like their amps but don't like this "normal behavior". I suspect it's the design because my Lake People amp doesn't do this.


----------



## nerone

stand said:


> nerone said, "Valhalla2 had thumps on the preamplifier outputs" of which he said that "Schiit replied this was normal behavior."


 
  
  


tuneslover said:


> Both my Magni and Vali amps pop through the preamp output (heard coming out of my powered speakers) and headphone output. With or without a DAC connected.
> 
> I like their amps but don't like this "normal behavior". I suspect it's the design because my Lake People amp doesn't do this.


 
 Just to let things clear:
 Valhalla did pop/thump on the preamplifier outputs only, no problem on the headphone out. This happened only way after startup and the with nothing playing, or at least I couldn't notice while something was playing.
 Vali 2: does the pop/thump on startup, both on headphone and preamp output, no problem after startup.
  
 Also the issue is not cable/source/headphone related as I use the same cables/souce/headphones with Schiit gear and Musical Fidelity. MF does not reproduce any of the Schiit's behaviour. Yesterday I measured the MF startup delay thinking that it would be longer than Schiit's, but MF is only 10 seconds.


----------



## Voxata

tamleo said:


> Hi,
> Can you tell me why the Bifrost 4490 does not suit the Jot but pair very well with the Asgard 2? Thanks


 
  
 Its not that it sounds terrible, however I find the 4490 is not the best pairing compared to other offerings. The Ifi Micro paired like crap with the Asgard 2, yet the 4490 was just wonderful. Its all about synergy.


----------



## JLoud

jiggybutt said:


> I have memory of someone trying 560 with Jot and had balanced cable, but can't seem to find the post now. Is the balanced output a big difference in quality? I'm thinking about building my own balanced cable. Trying to hear diffenence between high and low gain. For now I favour high, but can't tell why, might just be bias and the volume change.


 
 I posted about the 560 with balanced cable.  I felt the bass impact improved and tightened up as well.  Also after some more time listening I would say overall control improved as well.  Not night and day but I feel it was definitely worth the upgrade.


----------



## FLTWS

Just took delivery of my (amp only) Jodie and I've got it cooking along with some DanaCables just delivered as well.
  
 A couple of things I noticed upon physical inspection of Jodie:
  
 1. The 3 position selector switch is kind of sloppy in the center position (balanced) with a lot of play. Don't think it will be problem but note it. The full up and down positions lock firmly.
  
 2. As delivered my power on/off switch was in the on position. I always check all equipment power switches before I start pushing AC male and female plugs, hooking up the interconnects and firing up the equipment feeding into it so no biggie.
  
 Otherwise fit and finish up to Schiit's usual quality.
  
 I was kind of surprised at how compact the unit is. Even the manual was half sized compared to the others I have for my other Schiit.
 I would have paid more for a bottom plate finish like my other Schiit gear but I guess that's part of how they can sell this for just $399.00.
  
 Have any of you owners removed the press-on feet and do they come out in one piece? I plan on putting 4 Herbie's Tenderfeet under Jodie to allow a little more air flow underneath as my Raggy is on the shelf underneath it, and an Oppo HA-1 sits along side of it.
  
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## showme99

erics75 said:


> Anyone here have an iFi Micro iCan SE and a Jot for comparison?


 
  
  


floppiness said:


> Would also want to hear this comparison.


 
  
 As requested.  However, I'm not an audiophile, so please take this all with a grain of salt...
  
 My setup was as follows:  Laptop streaming TIDAL > USB > Modi MB > RCA splitter cables > iCan SE/Jotunheim > HD600.  On the iCan SE, both the XBass and 3D switches were set to the OFF position.  Both amps were set to High Gain and volume matched (by ear) to the best of my ability.  I switched my headphones back and forth between the two amps while listening to various songs on TIDAL.
  
 Compared to the Micro iCan SE, the Jotunheim sounds slightly more spacious and enveloping, with improved clarity.  These are not night-and-day differences, but they are noticeable.  Both amps sound phenomenal out of the Modi MB, but my personal preference would be the Jotunheim.
  
 Note: If balanced headphones are used with the Jotunheim, that amp will outshine the iCan SE by an even greater margin.


----------



## comzee

showme99 said:


> Laptop streaming TIDAL > USB > Modi MB > RCA splitter cables > iCan SE/Jotunheim > HD600.


 
 A bit off topic here, but I want to get the info out there.
 Most people use asio or wasapi in Windows, but you can't do that with streaming. 
  
 I have an active triple subscription to Tidal / Google Music / Spotify. I'm a bit of streaming junky.
  
 The two best OS for audio stack are Linux (I use Ubuntu 16.04) and iOS.
  
 Linux is a quantum leap forward in SQ over Windows for Tidal / Google Music / Spotify, I can't recommend it enough.


----------



## nerone

comzee said:


> A bit off topic here, but I want to get the info out there.
> Most people use asio or wasapi in Windows, but you can't do that with streaming.
> 
> I have an active triple subscription to Tidal / Google Music / Spotify. I'm a bit of streaming junky.
> ...


 

 comzee, if you use Roon player (www.roonlabs.com) you can use ASIO or Wasapi for Tidal. Unfortunately it does not support the other services.


----------



## pdferguson

alchemist007 said:


> The USB cable is an old one I had lying around. Any recommended cables?


 
  
 Others will disagree, but don't waste your money on an expensive USB cable. A decent USB cable should only cost you a couple bucks.
  
 In my experience, the main thing with regard to DACs and USB cables is _"the shorter, the better"_. Buy the shortest USB cable that will work, and you shouldn't have problems.


----------



## Alchemist007

I think mine is already pretty short, just long enough to reach the pc which is only like 2ft. I'm starting to think the problem was something else. Maybe I tried using it before the 20s warm up.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Not touching the cable debate with a ten foot pole, all I'll say is going from a stock USB cable to a LH labs 1G made a major jump in SQ in my system. You will hear different opinions from both sides, but IMO there's no point spending $400 on an amp and or $250 on DAC and using $5 cables since a system is only as good as its weakest link. In my experience I did not hear how good my system really was until I ditched cheap cables and realized they were a bottleneck. And you don't need uber expensive cables either, I would just avoid the cheap stuff. YMMV, IMO, etc etc


----------



## bavinck

coltmrfire said:


> Not touching the cable debate with a ten foot pole, all I'll say is going from a stock USB cable to a LH labs 1G made a major jump in SQ in my system. You will hear different opinions from both sides, but IMO there's no point spending $400 on an amp and or $250 on DAC and using $5 cables since a system is only as good as its weakest link. In my experience I did not hear how good my system really was until I ditched cheap cables and realized they were a bottleneck. And you don't need uber expensive cables either, I would just avoid the cheap stuff. YMMV, IMO, etc etc



Except that you just fully touched the cable debate.


----------



## StanD

coltmrfire said:


> Not touching the cable debate with a ten foot pole, all I'll say is going from a stock USB cable to a LH labs 1G made a major jump in SQ in my system. You will hear different opinions from both sides, but IMO there's no point spending $400 on an amp and or $250 on DAC and using $5 cables since a system is only as good as its weakest link. In my experience I did not hear how good my system really was until I ditched cheap cables and realized they were a bottleneck. And you don't need uber expensive cables either, I would just avoid the cheap stuff. YMMV, IMO, etc etc


 
  
  


bavinck said:


> Except that you just fully touched the cable debate.


 

 +1


----------



## tjc303

+1
  
 Touched it with your hand.


----------



## DavidA

alchemist007 said:


> I think mine is already pretty short, just long enough to reach the pc which is only like 2ft. I'm starting to think the problem was something else. Maybe I tried using it before the 20s warm up.


 
 Only thing I look for in a USB cable is Ferrite beads close to the ends and agree with @pdferguson, use the shortest possible.  Another thing is too many issues with USB drivers so I will always use optical or coax first, USB is my least preferred connection.


----------



## ProtegeManiac

tjc303 said:


> +1
> 
> Touched it with your hand.


 
  
 Fondled it too.


----------



## Atavax

protegemaniac said:


> Fondled it too.


 
 and then stroked it


----------



## Allanmarcus

atavax said:


> protegemaniac said:
> 
> 
> > Fondled it too.
> ...




If you all are done with your own circle jerk, maybe you can all finish up and leave the rest of us alone.


----------



## CCXR594

USB length is negligible.      
  
 The reason we have balanced cables like XLR is because they carry an analog electrical signal, and if the cable is one meter or greater in length will pick up noticeable electromagnetic interference from surrounding electronics and radio waves.
  
 Since USB is digital, it is not susceptible to such interference. The handshake will either fail, or work 100% properly.
  
 However, power over USB can be an issue.


----------



## GokceYLD

is it better to spend 150 more and get Modi Multibit + Jotunheim instead of the builtin DAC with JOT ?
  
 any experiences ?
  
 I wonder how the synergy works between the two and if it gives better result to justify the extra cost spend ?


----------



## iamxLn

Just spend the extra 150 now if you're already thinking you may want it. Tons of people have raved about this combo and the mimby more or less a bimby that's not upgradable. Maybe schiit will have a new purpose for that expansion slot in the future too.


----------



## cskippy

gokceyld said:


> is it better to spend 150 more and get Modi Multibit + Jotunheim instead of the builtin DAC with JOT ?
> 
> any experiences ?
> 
> I wonder how the synergy works between the two and if it gives better result to justify the extra cost spend ?


 
 It depends on what your plans are and whether YOU think it's worth it.  IMO, I use a Gumby with my Jodie and love the pairing.  Is it the best ever? No Does it drive my HE-6 to it's full potential?  No, but it only costs $400 and is a useful tool as a balanced preamp and is silent for even the most sensitive IEMs.  It also will let your gear shine through, which showcases the Multibit technology very well.  I would say it's worth it.


----------



## Kenneth Tang

tomasz2d said:


> Schiit Jotunheim vs. Chord Mojo
> They two sound very different from each other. Jot extends farther both into bass and treble side and draws with more delicate and thiner line that leaves more space for air and creates deeper soundstage. Mojo has more focused sound and draws with thicker line. Jot sound is more dynamic and lively than Mojo's. I find acoustic instruments sound more true in Jot and in Mojo they sound bit more digital and oversweetened than in Jot. Jot pairs better with neutral to warm headphones and Mojo pairs better with neutral to bright headphones. I tried both Jot and Mojo with different tracks and can't tell you which one is better because it really varied from track to track.


 
  
 Thank you so much for your comments. I have a more clear picture now and likely I will go for jot for my newly bought Elear. After all, I prefer a desktop amp rather than a portable amp.


----------



## ColtMrFire

bavinck said:


> Except that you just fully touched the cable debate.




Sorry couldn't resist 

What I really meant was I'm not going to get into a debate again. I simply stated my experience.


----------



## ColtMrFire

allanmarcus said:


> If you all are done with your own circle jerk, maybe you can all finish up and leave the rest of us alone.




Its fine.

I was gonna drag out the ol' lion/sheep metaphor, but I don't wanna insult anybody


----------



## StanD

coltmrfire said:


> Its fine.
> 
> I was gonna drag out the ol' lion/sheep metaphor, but I don't wanna insult anybody


 
 You just did.


----------



## Jiggybutt

jloud said:


> I posted about the 560 with balanced cable.  I felt the bass impact improved and tightened up as well.  Also after some more time listening I would say overall control improved as well.  Not night and day but I feel it was definitely worth the upgrade.


 
 Ok thanks! I will be able to build my own cable for about 35 euros, so then it will be very worth the time and money.


----------



## nerone

ccxr594 said:


> USB length is negligible.
> 
> The reason we have balanced cables like XLR is because they carry an analog electrical signal, and if the cable is one meter or greater in length will pick up noticeable electromagnetic interference from surrounding electronics and radio waves.
> 
> ...


 

 Although the information transported is digital, the way to do it on the cable is analog, 0 is represented by a voltage below one specific level, 1 is a voltage above the same level.
 There is an interesting article about this in Audiostream: http://www.audiostream.com/content/draft#urpWoKPEMjyO8ABl.97


----------



## Atavax

can we get back to the amp and leave the cord cable discussion to another thread? Its too damn tempting to troll this cable discussion...


----------



## StanD

nerone said:


> Although the information transported is digital, the way to do it on the cable is analog, 0 is represented by a voltage below one specific level, 1 is a voltage above the same level.
> There is an interesting article about this in Audiostream: http://www.audiostream.com/content/draft#urpWoKPEMjyO8ABl.97


 

 That's a bunch of malarkey meant to mislead. The signal goes well past the threshold of 1's and 0's so any noise is meaningless and most comparators employ hysteresis to further mediate any noise. The signal is modeled after a square wave so the transition times are not a factor. Additionally the data is buffered which prevents a host of potential problems, many not related to signal transmission, Also, disruptions to the signal will result in glitches or disruptions to the music, not compromises to SQ. Most USB issues are probably due to ground loops or noise conducted via the USB power, these are not usual and shouldn't be used to mess with a lion's share of audiophiles and strap them with unnecessary expenditures. In the small number of cases of conducted noise or unsolvable ground loops, one could get a USB galvanic isolator.
 IMO if one doesn't have glitches, disruptions of music or noises directly attributable to USB, just enjoy the music. Anyone is free to feel otherwise and spend as they wish. Nuff said.


----------



## franzdom

I sidestepped this controversy by using the $20 PYST USB cable. It's mid range and recommended by the Schiit!


----------



## pdferguson

coltmrfire said:


> You will hear different opinions from both sides, but IMO there's no point spending $400 on an amp and or $250 on DAC and using $5 cables since a system is only as good as its weakest link.


 
  
 A $5 cable doesn't make it the weakest link, nor does a $100 cable change that. Expensive USB cables are for people who don't understand the difference between digital and analog signal transmission. The only point to spending that kind of money on a USB cable has nothing to do with electronics and everything to do with human psychology.

  


> all I'll say is going from a stock USB cable to a LH labs 1G made a major jump in SQ in my system.


 
  
 LH Labs web site advertises these $140 USB cables with this little gem of absolute engineering nonsense:_ "LightSpeed 1G is an affordable high-end USB cable that boasts more than twice the bandwidth of USB 2.0's Audio Specification standard. Due to its wide bandwidth, the USB controller inside your DAC isn't overburdened when jitter makes its way into the signal, making your DAC run optimally and signal noise-free."_
  
Twice the bandwidth? Overburdened? It just makes me cringe when I read BS like that. I couldn't stand to read what they had to say about their $2000 USB cable (on sale now for only $799!)...


----------



## Atavax

Placebo is a hell of a drug...


----------



## StanD

atavax said:


> Placebo is a hell of a drug...


 

 It preys upon innocent people that don't understand the technical mumbo jumbo good and bad.


----------



## bavinck

pdferguson said:


> A $5 cable doesn't make it the weakest link, nor does a $100 cable change that. *Expensive USB cables are for people who don't understand the difference between digital and analog signal transmission*. The only point to spending that kind of money on a USB cable has nothing to do with electronics and everything to do with human psychology.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yup!


----------



## Delayeed

Cables are like religion


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I hear pink USB cables can reduce sibilance.


----------



## Atavax

i hear thickness is more important than length


----------



## Tomasz2D

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I hear pink USB cables can reduce sibilance.


 
 Remember, red cables are the fastest


----------



## Toolman

I usually oiled my cable when I received them...it gives a smoother sound and make transfer of data much faster


----------



## Atavax

painting flames on your cable makes it faster


----------



## bavinck

Geez you guys, lynch mob is in fine form today....


----------



## tekkster

I dunno much about USB cables in the audio world.  But one of my clients is a VAR, selling/installing/supporting audio visual equipment, IP video surveillance equipment, and video conferencing equipment.  Some types of digital cables do affect quality of video.  I'm not talking analog signal cables, I'm talking digital cables.  I'm also not talking about USB cables, so my two cents might be meaningless.

 But...anyway, in the video teleconferencing world (mostly H.264 or MGCP and G711/729 for audio), or in the IP video surveillance world (now more and more H.265), the phrase "a cat 6 is a cat6 is a cat6" doesn't fly.  ComScope's low end cables dramatically affect video and audio quality, and their higher end Systimax cables, when comparing the same category ethernet cable (generally cat6, though the comparison works with cat5E also), always perform better.  Significantly better.

 Dunno if that applies to USB cables, but just because a cable is sending digital data, doesn't mean they're all the same, that's for sure.


 ----

 Either way, seems from reading comments that this is a fairly common controversial topic.  But for me, at least, all this talk wasn't totally pointless for the Jot thread.  I will purchase a better USB cable (not a $150 cable, way outa budget for me, but maybe at least PYST cable).  $20 is worth it for an experiment.

 Thanks for the info and different perspectives.


----------



## bavinck

tekkster said:


> I dunno much about USB cables in the audio world.  But one of my clients is a VAR, selling/installing/supporting audio visual equipment, IP video surveillance equipment, and video conferencing equipment.  Some types of digital cables do affect quality of video.  I'm not talking analog signal cables, I'm talking digital cables.  I'm also not talking about USB cables, so my two cents might be meaningless.
> 
> But...anyway, in the video teleconferencing world (mostly H.264 or MGCP and G711/729 for audio), or in the IP video surveillance world (now more and more H.265), the phrase "a cat 6 is a cat6 is a cat6" doesn't fly.  ComScope's low end cables dramatically affect video and audio quality, and their higher end Systimax cables, when comparing the same category ethernet cable (generally cat6, though the comparison works with cat5E also), always perform better.  Significantly better.
> 
> ...


 
 HD video bandwidth probably becomes an issue, won't be an issue for 2 channel audio on USB.


----------



## Alchemist007

bavinck said:


> HD video bandwidth probably becomes an issue, won't be an issue for 2 channel audio on USB.


 

 Is that because the distortion due to EMI is simply too little to be audible?


----------



## bavinck

alchemist007 said:


> Is that because the distortion due to EMI is simply too little to be audible?


 
 EMI won't affect a digital signal - so all good. It might be because video just streams too much data for some type of USB to handle - stuff gets dropped.


----------



## Atavax

i imagine the distances can be quite a bit longer. Most people here aren't going to use a cable more than what like 10ft? 20 ft tops? i imagine a lot with what he's doing could be like 100 or 200 ft, maybe more.


----------



## Alchemist007

More of a capability thing then. I've also been reading there's practically no difference between USB 1.1 and 2.0, is that true? I know the Jot strictly recommends 2.0.


----------



## Clemmaster

atavax said:


> i imagine the distances can be quite a bit longer. Most people here aren't going to use a cable more than what like 10ft? 20 ft tops? i imagine a lot with what he's doing could be like 100 or 200 ft, maybe more.


 
  
 So what? Digital is digital, bits are bits, yada-yada. Right? They survive forever and over an infinite distance. Right?
  
 I presume you're all RF engineers here. Right?


----------



## Tomasz2D

peterinvan said:


> Apologies if this has been covered, but a thread search was unsuccessful.
> Has anyone used an (iPhone or iPad) > CCK > USB on the Jotunheim?
> If so, any impressions or problems?


 
 And as we speak about USB cables... Yes, iPad mini works via CCK perfectly with Jot and what's important it works without powered USB hub. It also works partially with Galaxy S7 Android phone via OTG cable, partialy because there is frequent clicking noise present so this set-up is not useable.


----------



## Atavax

clemmaster said:


> So what? Digital is digital, bits are bits, yada-yada. Right? They survive forever and over an infinite distance. Right?
> 
> I presume you're all RF engineers here. Right?


 
 yep, you caught us, we aren't all RF engineers so we better ignore our limited knowledge on digital vs analog signals and spend hundreds of dollars on small usb cables...


----------



## bavinck

Some of us have degrees in Physics....


----------



## tekkster

bavinck said:


> HD video bandwidth probably becomes an issue, won't be an issue for 2 channel audio on USB.


 

 Yeah, that makes sense.  Also, when I talk digital in the IP world, I'm only knowledgeable around IP packets, or mostly ethernet protocol or tcp-ip.  

 I guess USB audio protocols work differently.  The link that was posted early certainly seems to indicate that it's sending binary (though that sounds odd to me, coming from a packet world).

 Oh well.  Either way, interesting stuff.
  
 Thanks again.


----------



## murphythecat

can we please go back to jotun amp.


----------



## Atavax

Ok, so the initial review said it drives the HE6 just fine. Anyone able to confirm this? A little skeptical.


----------



## Clemmaster

A degree in physics should be enough for you to understand than real-life is generally way more complex than the simple models we learn. Digital transmission is no different.
  
 Bits are transmitted as continuous electrical wave-forms in a USB cable. The data is in digital form, but the physical interface is analog and at very high frequencies. No way around that.
  
 The USB receiver is a very complex piece of electronics, which has many mechanisms to fight against all that could deteriorate the bits transmission (the cable and impedance mismatch being very important factors). The worse the signal quality, the harder the receiver has to work to recover the data (and it will succeed most of the time: losing bits is extremely rare. The bit-perfectness is guaranteed, but it's not all that matters.). The harder it works, the more noise it generates on its ground plane, which in turn goes into other components in your DAC, which affects audio quality.


----------



## ToddRaymond

murphythecat said:


> can we please go back to jotun amp.


 

 Go for it!


----------



## Allanmarcus

Hey all you wise-asses thinking you are funny. Please stop. We want to talk about Jodi. Just stop.
  
 And as for the USB discussion, take to the Sound Science Forum.


----------



## Clemmaster

It's an important topic for Jodi, since its DAC is exposed to all those USB (potential) issues.


----------



## ToddRaymond

My own couple of cents that nobody asked for:  If believing there is no God, that there is a God, that cables don't make a difference, or that cables do make a difference helps you to sleep at night, then all the power to you.  It's like so many other things, people are so afraid of being wrong, or saying those three scary words: "I don't know".  All I know for sure is there's a lot of conjecture surrounding this topic.  I do find it somewhat amusing whenever my engineering friends question, say, my use of [pricier]-than-lampcord analogue cables.  The discussion begins along the lines of them asserting that cables "make no difference".  But then I ask, "what about shielding?  And wouldn't having a good quality connector that is more resistant to oxidation be good?" And they afford me that leeway.  So, already there's _some _acknowledgement that a cable isn't just a cable.  Is anything in this universe black or white?  No.  And quantum mechanics has shown that.
  
 Anyhoo, I believe this has been asked already, but I have yet to see anyone chime in yet:  Has anyone tried the Jotunheim yet with the HE-560s?  I'm thinking a splash of tube magic from the Mjolnir 2 would be ideal, but budget-wise, the 'Jot' would be an absolute slam dunk for me right now.  Just hope it wouldn't be too dry/thin/bright with those particular cans.  Any impressions would be super appreciated.


----------



## franzdom

Is there any advantage of Jot over MJ2?


----------



## tekkster

Sorry for participating and lengthening the usb cable discussion, which, I guess is not really about the Jot.

 For me...it was about the Jot, since I am constantly wondering in the back of my mind whether some solution can resolve my iMac-Jot DAC problems.  Already I know El Capitan and Sierra are no good, and though I'm expecting the Wyrd to arrive today, I suspect that won't resolve the issue either since other people said it won't.  So....to me....everything that gives me some information or nuggets or ideas on how I might tackle the issue is both interesting and Jot related.

 But, I can see how it's not seen that way.
  
 My bad....won't mention the usb stuff on this thread again.


----------



## Delayeed

franzdom said:


> Is there any advantage of Jot over MJ2?


 
 Curious as well since thinking of getting MJ2 but the Jot hype has me rethinking...


----------



## Defiant00

delayeed said:


> Curious as well since thinking of getting MJ2 but the Jot hype has me rethinking...


 
  
 Jot SE is probably better than MJ2 SE (since MJ2 SE requires summing because circlotron). I haven't heard both side by side to verify, though.
  
 As for balanced, I'd say MJ2 if you want tubes, Jot otherwise.


----------



## JLoud

turdski said:


> My own couple of cents that nobody asked for:  If believing there is no God, that there is a God, that cables don't make a difference, or that cables do make a difference helps you to sleep at night, then all the power to you.  It's like so many other things, people are so afraid of being wrong, or saying those three scary words: "I don't know".  All I know for sure is there's a lot of conjecture surrounding this topic.  I do find it somewhat amusing whenever my engineering friends question, say, my use of [pricier]-than-lampcord analogue cables.  The discussion begins along the lines of them asserting that cables "make no difference".  But then I ask, "what about shielding?  And wouldn't having a good quality connector that is more resistant to oxidation be good?" And they afford me that leeway.  So, already there's _some _acknowledgement that a cable isn't just a cable.  Is anything in this universe black or white?  No.  And quantum mechanics has shown that.
> 
> Anyhoo, I believe this has been asked already, but I have yet to see anyone chime in yet:  Has anyone tried the Jotunheim yet with the HE-560s?  I'm thinking a splash of tube magic from the Mjolnir 2 would be ideal, but budget-wise, the 'Jot' would be an absolute slam dunk for me right now.  Just hope it wouldn't be too dry/thin/bright with those particular cans.  Any impressions would be super appreciated.


 
 I have the Jot and 560.  Tried it SE and balanced.  Definitely preferred balanced.  As for being bright and don't feel it was an issue.  Compared to Asgard 2 the Jot is more transparent and definitely has better control and slam.  That is where the balanced out really helped.  I don't have much experience with tubes so can't comment on that part of your question.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

franzdom said:


> Is there any advantage of Jot over MJ2?


 

 I think Jason is on the record staying it's the most linear amp they've ever made. Maybe even more than Rag?? 
  
 So size, linearity, and upgradability would be my three points.


----------



## franzdom

Resistance is futile, Jotunheim is the inevitable.


----------



## ThELiZ

So, it's either the Jot or the Elise for me and my HD650. Anyone tried both and can comment on their sound signature?


----------



## Vigrith

turdski said:


> Anyhoo, I believe this has been asked already, but I have yet to see anyone chime in yet:  Has anyone tried the Jotunheim yet with the HE-560s?  I'm thinking a splash of tube magic from the Mjolnir 2 would be ideal, but budget-wise, the 'Jot' would be an absolute slam dunk for me right now.  Just hope it wouldn't be too dry/thin/bright with those particular cans.  Any impressions would be super appreciated.


 
  
 Yes. I'm not a huge fan of the 560s personally (they're my wife's) but I've tried them with Jotunheim and they sounded as good as I expected them to - a little dry and slightly brighter tilted, as expected given those are part of the 560s character to my ears (and the reason I'm not keen on them to begin with), but if you like them with any given amplifier you are currently using chances are you'll like them with the Jotunheim. It's characterless, it won't exaggerate "flaws" or exacerbate strengths, what you have is what you get and if you like the headphones you're listening to then you'll like the Jotun, that's my opinion.
  
 I also own the MJ2, Jotun's meant for office usage, and yes, I do prefer the 560s with it (with tubes) seeing as that helps tighten them up a bit and tame down the highs to a more reasonable level (I'm very treble sensitive) but as said, if you enjoy them as is on solid state amplification I'd be willing to bet you'll like them on the Jotunheim regardless - for what it's worth, I find it to be super similar to the MJ2 with LISST which is definitely quite the achievement for $400-500 aka half the price; some people may disagree here, not really seen anyone draw this comparison yet at least but I'm far from an analytical listener (warm and musical is usually my go to) so take this as you will. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 PS: I don't really listen to any headphones single ended so my impressions are from a balanced stand point exclusively.


----------



## ToddRaymond

Yeah, sort of what I imagined to be the case.  The 560s were quite decent with the Asgard 2.  The added power that the Jotunheiminsteininhauser would be quite beneficial.  On the other hand, the Asgard 2 provided just a nice little bit of warmth that seemed to "help" what I guess you could call the 560s shortcomings.
  
 Thank-you very much @JLoud and @Vigrith !  Much appreciated.


----------



## ColtMrFire

theliz said:


> So, it's either the Jot or the Elise for me and my HD650. Anyone tried both and can comment on their sound signature?




I had the 650 briefly with the Jotunheim. I did not like the 650, but I couldn't imagine them sounding much better as far as the technical aspects go. And plenty of people have raved about the pairing.


----------



## bavinck

coltmrfire said:


> I had the 650 briefly with the Jotunheim. I did not like the 650, but I couldn't imagine them sounding much better as far as the technical aspects go. And plenty of people have raved about the pairing.


 
 Maybe you might consider refraining from commenting on a headphone you had for a day. Lots of good advisers here that have lots of experience with the 650. Don't want to miss lead people.


----------



## tekkster

Sooooo, Good news for OSX Sierra users (and I'm guessing El Capitan users too, though I upgraded yesterday, so can't test El Capitan anymore)

 The Schiit Wyrd works.  

 I was expecting it to not work....but...have been testing for the last hour, no distortion, no static, no nothing....
 Hasn't really changed the sound for me (but then, maybe the difference is too subtle for me to notice).
  
 Woot woot!
  

  
 Thanks to everyone on this thread who helped me resolve the frustrating problems I was having.


----------



## murphythecat

coltmrfire said:


> I had the 650 briefly with the Jotunheim. I did not like the 650, but I couldn't imagine them sounding much better as far as the technical aspects go. And plenty of people have raved about the pairing.


 
 if you didnt like the 650, no matter the amp, you probably wouldnt like them. so refrain any comment for amps match with the 650.
  
 and youve had the 650 for a day but you think you can offer advise about the hd650 and amp?


----------



## ToTo Man

coltmrfire said:


> I actually had the 650 for nearly a week. Plenty of time to get familiar with it and provide informed commentary.


 
 How many hours break-in did you give 'em?  I've had two pairs of HD600, one sounded great straight from the box, the other sounded like ass until 100-200hrs playing time.  Even then the two pairs never sounded identical, one pair always had a more spacious soundstage than the other.


----------



## ColtMrFire

toto man said:


> How many hours break-in did you give 'em?  I've had two pairs of HD600, one sounded great straight from the box, the other sounded like ass until 100-200hrs playing time.  Even then the two pairs never sounded identical, one pair always had a more spacious soundstage than the other.




They were used, already broken in. But break in is not going to dramatically alter the sound of a headphone. If a headphone's sound signature isn't for you, break in isn't going to do diddly squat. I find break in tends to tame steely treble or slightly thin sound more than anything.


----------



## Vigrith

toto man said:


> How many hours break-in did you give 'em?  I've had two pairs of HD600, one sounded great straight from the box, the other sounded like ass until 100-200hrs playing time.


 
  
 I'm pretty sure it's not about that (in this case in particular at least) - @ColtMrFire just doesn't enjoy that sort of signature from what I've gathered. I do, I prefer the 650s to my T90s for daily listening and with most of my music whilst he loves the T90s and disliked the 650s. Happens, they are very different headphone, almost polar opposites, taste is bound to be diverse. I do agree a very short audition period is not really going to qualify someone to advise others on a pairing that includes the device at hand but he explicitly said that was the case; I'm sure people can draw their own conclusions off of that, not sure why it'd warrant people hounding him.
  
 That said, from someone who loves the HD650s, I do think they pair exceptionally well with the Jotunheim (albeit me having limited experience with solid state devices, I'm a tube kinda guy).


----------



## Voxata

To be fair your decision was made against the HD650 the first day in which you did a bunch of mods including removing rear foam and not the spider with it.


----------



## murphythecat

coltmrfire said:


> I actually had the 650 for nearly a week. Plenty of time to get familiar with it and provide informed commentary.


 
  
 you dont like hd650. nobody cares about that.
  
 how can you then make advise for amps for hd650 for people who likes their hd650 and want a suitable amp. this is where its just non sense.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Not liking a headphone's sound signature and being able to understand and appreciate (and recommend) its technical merits are two different things. Reviews are actually supposed to be fair, honest and balanced. I actually recommended the pairing since he was obviously a fan of the 650. I used to own and love the HD600 (an the HD558) which is very similar to the 650, so I am already familiar with the Sennheiser house sound.


----------



## murphythecat

coltmrfire said:


> Not liking a headphone's sound signature and being able to understand and appreciate (and recommend) its technical merits are two different things. Reviews are actually supposed to be fair, honest and balanced. I actually recommended the pairing since he was obviously a fan of the 650. I used to own and love the HD600 (an the HD558) which is very similar to the 650, so I am already familiar with the Sennheiser house sound.


 
 ok thanks
 btw did you mod the hd650 or they were stock?


----------



## ColtMrFire

voxata said:


> To be fair your decision was made against the HD650 the first day in which you did a bunch of mods including removing rear foam and not the spider with it.




Not really. I went back and forth throughout the week. That was just my initial reaction. The 650 is a very good headphone, its just not one I'd listen to much.


----------



## ColtMrFire

murphythecat said:


> ok thanks
> btw did you mod the hd650 or they were stock?




I listened both stock and modded. The mod seemed to improve them a great deal.


----------



## murphythecat

coltmrfire said:


> I listened both stock and modded. The mod seemed to improve them a great deal.


 
 wow, and you didnt like them! I see now that you had modded the 650 but left the spider. to me removing the spider also helped quite a bit... but I doubt it would have made love the 650 by removing the spider.
  
 so you tried the hd800 with the jotun and prefered that? stock I cannot live with hd800, really need EQ via sonarworks. hope the hd800 pairs well with jotun once EQ'ed.
  
 one of the only "affordable" headphone id want is hifiman he-x. maybe try those


----------



## acguitar84

I've only had the 650's a short time now, but I've really enjoyed them so far! Last night especially. I've been getting used to them, and they seem to be a really nice headphone so far. I'm running them with the mimby and the Jotunheim of course.


----------



## ColtMrFire

murphythecat said:


> wow, and you didnt like them! I see now that you had modded the 650 but left the spider. to me removing the spider also helped quite a bit... but I doubt it would have made love the 650 by removing the spider.
> 
> so you tried the hd800 with the jotun and prefered that? stock I cannot live with hd800, really need EQ via sonarworks. hope the hd800 pairs well with jotun once EQ'ed.
> 
> one of the only "affordable" headphone id want is hifiman he-x. maybe try those




IMO the 800 is a better headphone, but I preferred the 800S which seemed to fix the 800s shortcomings (recessed upper mids, treble spike, clincal tone). I preferred my T90 to them both since it was more revealing of detail and had a more fun, engaging tone. But I could definitely see myself owning an 800S in the future. It is amazing.


----------



## Jazz1

Just got the Jot. AIFF files sound great via iMac>AudioQuest Cinnamon USB cable>Jot w/DAC. Trixie Whitley's voice particularly haunting, and the accompanying instruments are clear and well balanced on Porta Bohemica album.
  
 Trying to figure out whether low or high gain sounds best with an Audeze LCD2 (PlusSound Cable). I should expect the higher gain would work better with the LCD2 right? It seems so.
  
 Thankfully no USB noise that I can detect via my home iMac. I was going to bring this to work, but this may replace my PS Audio GCHA amp. and Musical Fidelity M1. Time will tell.
  
 I'm going to try my HD-650 next. 
  
 I hope everyone that has ordered a Jot gets theirs soon!


----------



## Tuneslover

coltmrfire said:


> Not liking a headphone's sound signature and being able to understand and appreciate (and recommend) its technical merits are two different things. Reviews are actually supposed to be fair, honest and balanced. I actually recommended the pairing since he was obviously a fan of the 650. I used to own and love the HD600 (an the HD558) which is very similar to the 650, so I am already familiar with the Sennheiser house sound.




I don't know but you seemed extremely full of eager anticipation about getting your hands on the 650's and then when you finally received them you quickly assessed you didn't like their sound signature (the same day you received them), wrote them off and then modded them (again the same day you received them). Then again decided you wouldn't be able to get accustomed to them and decided to sell them. Yet you claim you're quite familiar with the Sennheiser house sound? Really?


----------



## Voxata

coltmrfire said:


> Not really. I went back and forth throughout the week. That was just my initial reaction. The 650 is a very good headphone, its just not one I'd listen to much.


 
  
  
ColtMrFire:
  
 Both the Jot and the 650 (silver drivers) came today.

 Jot/T90 is wonderful.

 But holy mother of god is the 650 DARK. Coming from bright Beyers that was going to be obvious, I just wasnt prepared for how dark these are. My old HD600 are practically Grados compared to these.

 Those were my initial thoughts of the unmodded 650/Jot. Technically a great pairing, it just felt like there was a blanket over the drivers.

 Immediately did the coin, rear foam and dynamat mod...

 Better but still shocking. I've just never heard cans this dark before and its kind of freaking me out. Don't meant to be dramatic.

 Even with the mod, I am bothered by it. Gonna keep listening of course for brain burn in, but wow... Quite a day of extremes.
********************************************************
  
     You immediately cut'em up without getting used to them is my point. Obtained Friday, modded friday, listed for sale Saturday and is now sold. You've been called out a LOT on this forum for pointless posting of suggestions without owning or listening to gear and now without having any solid experience with gear you speak of. Please have something to contribute from solid experience.


----------



## ColtMrFire

tuneslover said:


> I don't know but you seemed extremely full of eager anticipation about getting your hands on the 650's and then when you finally received them you quickly assessed you didn't like their sound signature (the same day you received them), wrote them off and then modded them (again the same day you received them). Then again decided you wouldn't be able to get accustomed to them and decided to sell them. Yet you claim you're quite familiar with the Sennheiser house sound? Really?




Fell victim to hype. It happens. Didn't like them at first, started to warm up to them a bit, went back and forth a few times and ultimately decided...not for me, even though I came away understanding and appreciating their technical merits.

The 650s aren't for everyone. Now while I love all the attention I'm getting, we really should get back to Jotunheim talk, no?


----------



## ColtMrFire

voxata said:


> [COLOR=000000]ColtMrFire:[/COLOR]
> 
> [COLOR=000000] Both the Jot and the 650 (silver drivers) came today.
> 
> ...




Those thoughts were posted immediately. I did more critical listening throughout the week without posting about it, so what you read is not the whole story...not by a long shot.

This obsession with my opinion is getting weird (and creepy). Don't you have something better to do?


----------



## gmahler2u

[/IMG][/IMG][/IMG][/IMG]


----------



## Tuneslover

coltmrfire said:


> Fell victim to hype. It happens. Didn't like them at first, started to warm up to them a bit, went back and forth a few times and ultimately decided...not for me, even though I came away understanding and appreciating their technical merits.
> 
> The 650s aren't for everyone. Now while I love all the attention I'm getting, we really should get back to Jotunheim talk, no?


 
 Just so you know, I too had an initial crummy and disappointing experience with the HD650 (posted earlier in this thread) and decided not to buy them.  Several months later I had an opportunity to spend some quality time with them at an Audio Show with various quality amps. I then realized that my initial impression wasn't a fair one because of the amp they were paired with.  A couple more months went by and I decided to pull the trigger and bought a pair.  On my original Magni they sound just okay but on my Lake People G109S they sound extremely good.  Absolutely no veil whatsoever.  It's true, with a good amp these headphones scale extremely well.  On my Vali2 they can sound good depending on which tube I use.  They can sound notoriously dark with certain tubes to superb with other tubes.  I guess the point I'm trying to make to you is quick judgement on what was an initial impression isn't a very good way to assess a headphone like the 650's (or any piece of audio equipment).  This headphone has a well documented reputation (by people that know a hell of a lot more about these things than you or I) of being an extremely good can.  Personally I think you wrote them off way too quickly (no, 1 week isn't a fair assessment) and then came across as judgemental and critical.
  
 So as requested, let's get back to the Jot discussion.  I have been reading on this thread that the HD650's seem to pair extremely well with the Jot so I am definitely interested in upgrading my Magni2U (which replaced my original Magni a few years ago).  I am already getting one of my Audio Sensibility cables converted to Balanced for the HD650.  As soon as The Headphone Bar in Vancouver gets their shipment from Schiit I'm ordering the Jot.  I can't wait to hear how these terrific headphones scale as balanced on this amp.


----------



## comzee

Thing about the hd650, it'll scale way beyond the Jot.
 People put together $20k rigs for the hd650 before the hd800 came out.
 Not say you need that at all, but it shows the headphone can scale better than most.
  
  
 Imo, the Jot is definition of mid-fi. It's not going to bring the best out of the hd650, or any flagship headphone for that matter.
 Regarding it's power to drive HE-6, there's a difference between sound pressure and sound quality. 
  
 Jot has a noticeable grain to it, grey background, slightly boosted treble. 
 It isn't like Schiit is doing anything new either, they jumped into the combo game after almost every other manufacturer has been doing it for years. 
 Not saying it's bad the capitalize, but stating Schiit isn't giving us anything new here.
  
 For example, for $325 I prefer the AGD NFB-11 to the Jot.
 The Matrix Audio Mini-i @ $380 is something the Jot bests.
  
 Just two examples of products in the same market, same price range, one better for me, one not. 
 The list is long for combos + - $100 of the Jots $500 with DAC.


----------



## ColtMrFire

tuneslover said:


> Just so you know, I too had an initial crummy and disappointing experience with the HD650 (posted earlier in this thread) and decided not to buy them.  Several months later I had an opportunity to spend some quality time with them at an Audio Show with various quality amps. I then realized that my initial impression wasn't a fair one because of the amp they were paired with.  A couple more months went by and I decided to pull the trigger and bought a pair.  On my original Magni they sound just okay but on my Lake People G109S they sound extremely good.  Absolutely no veil whatsoever.  It's true, with a good amp these headphones scale extremely well.  On my Vali2 they can sound good depending on which tube I use.  They can sound notoriously dark with certain tubes to superb with other tubes.  I guess the point I'm trying to make to you is quick judgement on what was an initial impression isn't a very good way to assess a headphone like the 650's (or any piece of audio equipment).  This headphone has a well documented reputation (by people that know a hell of a lot more about these things than you or I) of being an extremely good can.  Personally I think you wrote them off way too quickly (no, 1 week isn't a fair assessment) and then came across as judgemental and critical.
> 
> So as requested, let's get back to the Jot discussion.  I have been reading on this thread that the HD650's seem to pair extremely well with the Jot so I am definitely interested in upgrading my Magni2U (which replaced my original Magni a few years ago).  I am already getting one of my Audio Sensibility cables converted to Balanced for the HD650.  As soon as The Headphone Bar in Vancouver gets their shipment from Schiit I'm ordering the Jot.  I can't wait to hear how these terrific headphones scale as balanced on this amp.




What people think of a HP isn't really relevant. Your own ears decide for you, which is what happened. Judgemental and critical? Of course. What else does one do in this hobby? It seems to offend people sometimes, but I guess you can't control that.


----------



## Tuneslover

coltmrfire said:


> What people think of a HP isn't really relevant. Your own ears decide for you, which is what happened. Judgemental and critical? Of course. What else does one do in this hobby? It seems to offend people sometimes, but I guess you can't control that.


 
 Over and Out!


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

I heard a fully modded 650 with a Valhalla 2/Bimby combo and preferred my HD600. With a new stock 650 and the Mimby/Joti combo I am in heaven. I think to get a better pairing for the 650 you'd need to spend over a grand for a serious tube amp. To have an SS amp that pairs this well with the 650 and also can power almost any other headphone or IEM you can think of is a huge achievement.


----------



## Blackford

Using the Prime Meridian and JO and I find my HEK observations are spot on with Maxx's. In fact, almost sold the HEK until this measly priced amp came along. To think that the slovenly HEK's could be turned into effortless angels was something that I could not have fathomed. And to do so for $500 is ridiculous. (I threw in the dac that I will not use because what's a $100? It might serve a purpose one day) Schitt just got real.


----------



## sheldaze

atavax said:


> Ok, so the initial review said it drives the HE6 just fine. Anyone able to confirm this? A little skeptical.


 
 It does, though I have yet to use many other options, such as 100-watt speaker amplifiers to compare. I certainly was not at or anywhere near full volume when playing through the Jot. It had plenty of headroom and bass was plentiful.


----------



## Vigrith

merrick said:


> With a new stock 650 and the Mimby/Joti combo I am in heaven. I think to get a better pairing for the 650 you'd need to spend over a grand for a serious tube amp. TO have a SS amp that pairs this well with the 650 and also can power almost any other headphone or IEM you can think of is a huge achievement.


 
  
 I completely agree, my 650s are the latest stock version too (inept and too lazy to mod, not keen) - Mimby's my main source as of right now and I find they sound even better with the Jotunheim than they do out of my BW, WA7tp and MJ2. Might be new toy syndrome, I haven't A/B'd because again I'm too lazy and I don't analyse music really, I just love listening to it but still, the sheer power on the Jotunheim really pushes the 650 scaling to incredible levels I'd not previously experienced. Out of the gear I have the only one that competes is my Pathos Aurium ($1500~), I won't even bother comparing using the 650s with it vs the Jotunheim because they are about as different as they come but I will say in terms of enjoyment they're very, very close.
  
 It's a Herculean task to achieve what Schiit have with the Jotunheim in my eyes, as you said the fact it works this well with IEMs as well as making pretty much any headphone sound as they should (eg. lets their character seep through and has the power any of them may need, aside the HE-6 I suppose, don't own it) - alongside the BW which doesn't really count as an SS amplifier in my opinion, this is the only one I've found is good enough to warrant being kept as a tube fanatic. It just does so much right.


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

I absolutely agree. For my money, I'd rather have a Jotunheim over almost any amp under $1k. I would kill for a tricked out Torpedo III or an Eddie Current but right now those are out of my reach as I'm investing my money in a speaker rig instead. So for my purposes the Jotunheim is perfect.


----------



## murphythecat

have yet to read Torpedo vs jot. 
 but yeah it seems for hd650, the jot is the best amp for under almost 1300$


----------



## comzee

merrick said:


> I would kill for a tricked out Torpedo III or an Eddie Current.....


 
 I have a fully tricked out Torpedo III with latest CCS mods, and five star tubes.
 To say that amp is a quantum leap past the Jot is an understatement.


----------



## murphythecat

comzee said:


> I have a fully tricked out Torpedo III with latest CCS mods, and five star tubes.
> To say that amp is a quantum leap past the Jot is an understatement.


 
 oh... so the torpedo is much better then the jot?????


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

The TIII is an exceptional amp. The Jotunheim is of course far more versatile, but if you have headphones that synergize well with the TIII you should seriously consider owning one. I already would if I had a spare $1,300 lying around.


----------



## earnmyturns

delayeed said:


> Cables are like religion


 
 In more ways than one. Cables are a seemingly accessible "explanation" for otherwise mysterious digital audio misbehavior. Sufficiently advanced technology being undistinguishable from magic and all that. The non-magic version from someone who has seen plenty high-speed and realtime computation bugs since the days when 6 microseconds were a fast cycle time (core memory FTW!) is simply: all software and digital logic has bugs, especially timing bugs. You mean, you thought your super-duper DAC was bug-free? And the sad possibility is that changing a cable or adding a decrapifier might change timing just enough to avoid ticking the bug for some of your source material. If you don't believe me, search for "side channel attacks" on your favorite search engine. There are so much subtle time-dependent couplings between different activities and components in digital logic/software that just contemplating them gives me a headache. Why would we assume that digital audio would be less prone to those than server computing systems that have 10^6-10^9 more $ spent in their design and testing? Trust me, I know plenty about amazing [non-Schiit REDACTED] and yet needs to be tickled with all due respect lest it decides 2 + 2 = -17. Just sayin'... *Update*: Yes, I know it's strictly speaking off-topic, but I wanted to put some perspective on why discussions of cables wrt digital audio are a total lost cause.


----------



## comzee

murphythecat said:


> oh... so the torpedo is much better then the jot?????


 
 Yes, that is what I was trying to convey.
  
 Apart from that, I think the Jot is waaay over hyped. I've said it before and got people ganging up on me, but whatever.
 People constantly saying you need $1k more to get better than Jot. No you do not! It's peoples lack of hearing what's out there.
  
 You'll get people coming at you like Colt saying Jot on par with Ragnarok.
 It's hard to talk candidly in a thread for the Jot, you're going to get group think, and buyers wanting to like what they bought bias.
  
 I bought the Jot purely as an experience. I said it was exception at $400, but bested by many other amps at higher price ranges, and I stand by that.
 I'm objective in the sense I didn't need to like it, I wasn't trying to justify the purchase. I sold it on the used section and moved on, ymmv. 
  
 Btw, a huge hype vain is coming form sbaf, one particular user that highly reviewed it, Marv.
 I think he's way off, but people love to slob on his knob.


----------



## StanD

earnmyturns said:


> In more ways than one. Cables are a seemingly accessible "explanation" for otherwise mysterious digital audio misbehavior. Sufficiently advanced technology being undistinguishable from magic and all that. The non-magic version from someone who has seen plenty high-speed and realtime computation bugs since the days when 6 microseconds were a fast cycle time (core memory FTW!) is simply: all software and digital logic has bugs, especially timing bugs. You mean, you thought your super-duper DAC was bug-free? And the sad possibility is that changing a cable or adding a decrapifier might change timing just enough to avoid ticking the bug for some of your source material. If you don't believe me, search for "side channel attacks" on your favorite search engine. There are so much subtle time-dependent couplings between different activities and components in digital logic/software that just contemplating them gives me a headache. Why would we assume that digital audio would be less prone to those than server computing systems that have 10^6-10^-9 more $ spent in their design and testing? Trust me, I know plenty about amazing [non-Schiit REDACTED] and yet needs to be tickled with all due respect lest it decides 2 + 2 = -17. Just sayin'...


 
 Magnetic core memory, nice _story_, not relevant to the topic, gee. Just say'in.


----------



## Allanmarcus

comzee said:


> murphythecat said:
> 
> 
> > oh... so the torpedo is much better then the jot?????
> ...




So what is better under $1000, or even under $500


----------



## comzee

allanmarcus said:


> So what is better under $1000, or even under $500


 
 I personally like the nfb11 $350 over Jot, but that's down to preference, they're both mid-fi sounding. 
  
 Audio GD NFB-28 @ $750 is hands down better.
 Better Dac, better amp, same functionality. 
  
 Moving up to a bit higher prices, my Lehman BCL $1k, Taurus Mkii $1.8k, Torpedo III $1k, Fire-Bottle $1.3k, are all better.
  
 Things that are not better, Matrix Mini-I $350, WA7 $1100, Gustard H10 + U12 stack $550. 
  
 That's just the stuff I've heard a lot, and own. There's soo many more amp/dac combos, dac/amp stacks, in the same price range as Jot, that I have not heard.
 It seems people just read the hype, have listened to one other mid-fi amp, and proclaim the Jot is a giant killer.
  
 I've listened to a fraction of what's out there, listed stuff that is better / worse, much more to consider.
 I don't think Jot is a giant killer, I think it's a super solid $500 mid-fi combo. 
  
 Edit:
 I'll add, while the NFB-28 bests it, the Torpedo III utterly destroys the Jot amp section. 
 The ceiling is high, and if anybody thinks the Jot gets you close, whelp ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ can't change the color of the sky.


----------



## Maelob

What is Mid fi? what is the cut off for HIFI?


----------



## theveterans

maelob said:


> What is Mid fi? what is the cut off for HIFI?


 
  
 Any audio gear that's below TOTL or entry level.


----------



## nedifer

maelob said:


> What is Mid fi?


 
  
 Halfway between <- here and there -> ?
  
 The difference between being able to put the kids through college vs. moving the family into a room in a flop house with a shared bathroom down the hall and having them eat cat food until they can move out and forage on their own?
  
 Purgatory?  (midway between heaven and hell...)
  
 The midpoint between lurking and swaggering in these fora?


----------



## bavinck

maelob said:


> *What is Mid fi*? what is the cut off for HIFI?


 
 Reasonably affordable. Otherwise known as reasonable.


----------



## Allanmarcus

comzee said:


> allanmarcus said:
> 
> 
> > So what is better under $1000, or even under $500
> ...




Very interesting. I was actually thinking of the JoMimby combo for 650 new. I plan on listening to it at RMAF, as well as a lot of other stuff. I always forget about audio-gd. Thanks for the down to earth comments.


----------



## oldschool

allanmarcus said:


> Very interesting. I was actually thinking of the JoMimby combo for 650 new. I plan on listening to it at RMAF, as well as a lot of other stuff. I always forget about audio-gd. Thanks for the down to earth comments.


 
  
 Would be interesting to hear a comparison of JoMimby vs NFB 28.
  
 Also, next year Audio GD will be upgrading to the new ES9038, which is expected to be a killer DAC.


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

comzee said:


> Yes, that is what I was trying to convey.
> 
> Apart from that, I think the Jot is waaay over hyped. I've said it before and got people ganging up on me, but whatever.
> People constantly saying you need $1k more to get better than Jot. No you do not! It's peoples lack of hearing what's out there.
> ...


 
  
 A lot of assumptions here. Lots of people have heard many amps and consider the Joti a great bargain. Of course you don't have to agree but not everyone is speaking from a place of ignorance.
  
 Additionally, not needing the amp doesn't make you any more objective than someone else, as Schiit has a return policy that anyone can take advantage of if they don't like the amp, or they could sell it for close to full price given the hype for it at the moment. You just have a different set of biases. Which again is fine but please stop saying you're being objective and no one else is. It's not correct.


----------



## zeissiez

I haven't heard all the DAC/amp combos, but I have experiences with top end sound, having heard/owned Eddie Current BA, WA5, Alo Studio Six in the past 5 years. So far one DAC/amp, to my ears, stood head and shoulders above the rest, the Master 11. It sounded on par and better than many higher end dedicated amp + dedicated DAC. It's more pricey than the Jot. But Jot has a lot of proof if it were to claim the top spot.


----------



## Starcruncher

I have a question regarding a piece of gear I've owned for a few months. Does that qualify me to post?
  
 Ok. I have Chord 2Qute. It has 3V out, RCA only. How does 3V work with Jot? I want to avoid the situation where fine-volume control is difficult, i.e., where volume pot stays below 8 pm because there is too much power from the source. Will the gain switch be my friend here?
  
 I will mainly be using HD600 and Grado PS1000. Both SE.


----------



## rovopio

Will it still be a bargain if a Jotunheim cost $580? That's how much I need to pay in total should I get them, and I'm wondering if it's a bargain because it's priced at $400 or it's just that good even at around ~$600?
  
 For context, headphone will be hd650...


----------



## ToddRaymond

maelob said:


> What is Mid fi? what is the cut off for HIFI? :wink_face:




Wow. Judging by the responses to your question (jab), it's obvious that some folks take themselves rather seriously. "Oh, well, allow me to explain...."



comzee said:


> "I sold it [...] and moved on"




And yet, here you are. On one hand, thank-you for sharing your so-called "objective" viewpoint. Hype trains are certainly a thing. On the other hand, in my subjective opinion, it seems a little strange trying to suggest that those who are happy with their Jotunheims are somewhat deluded, and in fact, could not possibly be actually be enjoying the music that's coming out of their amp.

As always, your mileage may vary.

EDIT: What Merrick said.


----------



## Lorspeaker

Midfi is usd500

High5 is when u get tat midfi at 300

LoFi is after getting the high5 , u still mystified y ppl like tat midfi


----------



## ColtMrFire

merrick said:


> A lot of assumptions here. Lots of people have heard many amps and consider the Joti a great bargain. Of course you don't have to agree but not everyone is speaking from a place of ignorance.
> 
> Additionally, not needing the amp doesn't make you any more objective than someone else, as Schiit has a return policy that anyone can take advantage of if they don't like the amp, or they could sell it for close to full price given the hype for it at the moment. You just have a different set of biases. Which again is fine but please stop saying you're being objective and no one else is. It's not correct.




It's definitely all subjective. I directly compared Jot to Black Widow and Ragnarok (all fed by Yggdrasil). Overall I preferred the Jotunheim for both its technical prowess and transparency. But I will say Black Widow was extremely impressive for its euphonic nature. Ragnrok was also impressive in terms of dynamics and coherency but fell a bit short in the treble (a bit uncontrolled). So IMO Jotunheim absolutely competes with two TOTL SS amps from schiit and Eddie Current. The guy who owned the equipment also agreed. The great thing about Jot is it seems to scale to whatever source is feeding it and doesnt really add any "personality" to it like BW and Rag. So if you have a very good source, you are probably very close to end game if not there already, depending on your preferences.


----------



## sheldaze

starcruncher said:


> I have a question regarding a piece of gear I've owned for a few months. Does that qualify me to post?
> 
> Ok. I have Chord 2Qute. It has 3V out, RCA only. How does 3V work with Jot? I want to avoid the situation where fine-volume control is difficult, i.e., where volume pot stays below 8 pm because there is too much power from the source. Will the gain switch be my friend here?
> 
> I will mainly be using HD600 and Grado PS1000. Both SE.


 
 I've used the comparable HD650 and PS1000e. And I know of what you speak, having used the Mojo as a source - Mojo does allow me to lower the volume, but I know of what you speak in that it defaults to the same 3 volts of output. Also I tend to listen to headphones at low volume.
  
 You should not have any issues with usable volume on either headphone. Yes, the position of the volume knob may be below 8 pm for the Grado, but it is still quite usable in this range. The only issue I would ask you - are you okay with a solid state amplifier connected to your Grado? There are a limited few solid state amplifiers that I like the sound of with my Grado. Jotunheim is not one of these few solid state amplifiers.
  
 Usable volume - yes, it might be a small range for the Grado, but it should still be usable. However I do question the synergy with the Grado, which is a personal question.


----------



## Tuneslover

comzee said:


> I personally like the nfb11 $350 over Jot, but that's down to preference, they're both mid-fi sounding.
> 
> Audio GD NFB-28 @ $750 is hands down better.
> Better Dac, better amp, same functionality.
> ...




I was planning on upgrading my Magni2Ü with the Jot, liking the balanced option too. Just amp, I have DACs to connect to it.


----------



## Starcruncher

sheldaze said:


> I've used the comparable HD650 and PS1000e. And I know of what you speak, having used the Mojo as a source - Mojo does allow me to lower the volume, but I know of what you speak in that it defaults to the same 3 volts of output. Also I tend to listen to headphones at low volume.
> 
> You should not have any issues with usable volume on either headphone. Yes, the position of the volume knob may be below 8 pm for the Grado, but it is still quite usable in this range. The only issue I would ask you - are you okay with a solid state amplifier connected to your Grado? There are a limited few solid state amplifiers that I like the sound of with my Grado. Jotunheim is not one of these few solid state amplifiers.
> 
> Usable volume - yes, it might be a small range for the Grado, but it should still be usable. However I do question the synergy with the Grado, which is a personal question.




Thanks for this. Solid state is indeed a question mark. TBH, I have not even heard the PS1000's that I purchased a while ago. Long story, but I don't live where they shipped to. Plus, I don't live in a place with any opportunities to audition gear. So I read a lot of head-fi. 

I only want one amp and like the Jot's price and its versatility. Probably not a perfect match for the Grado's, but I don't mind EQing. Whatever I go for, there will be compromises. The other (very) appealing all-arounder is the iFi Pro iCan. 4X the price though.


----------



## acguitar84

sheldaze said:


> I've used the comparable HD650 and PS1000e. And I know of what you speak, having used the Mojo as a source - Mojo does allow me to lower the volume, but I know of what you speak in that it defaults to the same 3 volts of output. Also I tend to listen to headphones at low volume.
> 
> You should not have any issues with usable volume on either headphone. Yes, the position of the volume knob may be below 8 pm for the Grado, but it is still quite usable in this range. The only issue I would ask you - are you okay with a solid state amplifier connected to your Grado? There are a limited few solid state amplifiers that I like the sound of with my Grado. Jotunheim is not one of these few solid state amplifiers.
> 
> Usable volume - yes, it might be a small range for the Grado, but it should still be usable. However I do question the synergy with the Grado, which is a personal question.




I agree with you on the PS1000e. I've enjoyed them a lot over the last year or two that I've owned them. I ran them with a Wa7 and concero HD and it was fun. However, with the Jot/mimby setup, I wasn't enjoying them as much, hence, this early weeks purchase of the 650's.

And, the music has never sounded better. The jot/mimby/hd650 so far anyway, has been great. I'm also using a balanced cord with the 650. Last night, for the last song, I listened to magnet and steel, a tune from the 70's. The detail was fantastic, the vocals, everything really was just fun to listen to. 

The part that trips me out, is how the PS1000e don't work as well with the jot/mimby. I reached for them first last night, than after one tune they went back to the dugout so to speak and the 650's took over for the rest of a very enjoyable listening session. I bought the PS1000e on the strength of a review saying the were good with detail, but in my experience, the 650's have better detail, at least with Mimby/Jot. It's crazy this hobby. To me it's a conundrum of sorts. Logic would seem to dictate the PS1000e would be great with the detailed Mimby/Jot, but it isn't, then the 650 is fantastic, addicting even.

I'm wondering if I should look into balancing the PS1000e to make them a player with the jot/mimby, or should I just set the wa7 and concero HD back up and use them for the PS1000e or just sell them.

For me the 650/mimby/jot just rules the roost. I want to listen a lot, heck even though it's early morning, I want to fire things up and listen, the "old" setup with the PS1000e never made me want to do that.

I see you also have the 800s. How do those work alongside the HD650? Do you grab those sometimes with your Jot?


----------



## sheldaze

I am kind of getting to the point where I know, quite firmly, what I like and what I dislike. But I don't yet understand the underlying, engineer terms for the why.
 I have no intent of ever selling PS1000e or HD800S, but for me these require a different amplifier (not Jot) to play well. Still I don't know why?
  
 And I really like the Jot. Jot for me displaced my Ragnarok, due to the intimate details of how close Jot lets me get to the sound. Like you mentioned, HD650 has good clarity - at least the way I hear it. But I also liked the HE1000, HE6, Utopia, etc. If you can, I would recommend you trying the HD650 single-ended. Not recommending this way to listen, but just so you get a sense of the delta between balanced and single-ended out of the Jot. My guess is there will be only a slight difference you hear. So no, I would not recommend going the route of getting balanced cables put onto the PS1000e. I have no science or engineering to back it up, but suspect it just will not do well for you - it did not do well for me.


----------



## comzee

@Turdski
@Merrick
  
 I already did about 50 pages back, so I'm not going to dig up my posts.
  
 I have said nothing but good about the Jot.
 Paraphrasing myself.
  
 "The jot is exceptional amp @ $400"
 "The jot is a rock solid $500 combo" 
  
 and I've said many other good things about it.
 Regarding Merricks response directly, he obviously has an axe to grind, and completely ignored what I was trying to say.
  
 "Lots of people have heard many amps and consider the Joti a great bargain."
 Suggesting I don't believe that, is admitting you didn't read what I've been posting to this thread.
 I agree the Jot is a great bargain, I even suggested it to a few people over PM, based on budget. 
  
  
 Here's the two things I'm trying to talk on.
  
 #1 No you don't need to spend $1k to get a better amp
 #2 The Jot is not a giant killer, it cannot compete with well designed $1k+ amps. 
  
 What I'm agreeing with:
 Yes the Jot is am amazing bargain at $400 amp only, $500 combo, specific to ones budget. 
 But go ahead and dismiss me to parrot your own narrative.
  
  
 EDIT:
 Just to save myself from another attack that garners mass thumbs up. 
 Yes I am subjective, I do agree with you there Merrick. Using Objective was the wrong choice of word. 
 There is also people like Colt that will continually state Jot stacks up with TOTL amps, I can't talk on that, it's his thing.
  
 I'm also not posting here to bash the Jot, as I've stated, I have good things to say about it. I'm posting here to be counterweight to people like Colt.
 If the only stream of consciousness in this entire thread is Jot #1 amp TOTL best ever....... Ya, ok I'll leave you guys to it.


----------



## Maxx134

I am noticing the are many variables to affect the impressions of the Jotunheim.

1- internal DAC poses some compromise (both sonically, and in any effects in in sharing same PSU) to the amp true potential.
Better to have a separate balanced DAC.

2- choice of input (balanced better) poses some compromise amp true potential.

So those that think this amp has only "mid Fi" potential, are simply wrong.

I tried it with my yggy balanced outputs.
Control and clarity are extremely evident.
Only thing lacking is the extra added depth that tubes give,
Which actually no solid state "amp" will replicate fully.
So the amp alone is what I would say on par with most other great solid state gear.

I am thinking of getting the Jotun, and pairing it with tubes at its input.


----------



## Vigrith

comzee said:


> EDIT:
> Just to save myself from another attack that garners mass thumbs up.
> Yes I am subjective, I do agree with you there Merrick. Using Objective was the wrong choice of word.
> There is also people like Colt that will continually state Jot stacks up with TOTL amps, I can't talk on that, it's his thing.
> ...


 
  
 I think the problem people have been having with your posting style (not your opinion) is that you somehow give off a "me against the world for the sake of it" vibe - I'm not saying this is a fault and I'm by no means "attacking" you (nor was Merrick, hence my previous comment about your posting style), I just think you can say the Jotunheim is not the be all end all in terms of sound as opposed to most other amplifiers as some people are stating without implying that you're discrediting others' opinions on it, or that you're the only person who's not biased because you had $500 to blow on an "experiment" and didn't feel obligated to "slob on its knob".
  
 Better can be had for more money, no contest from me there, I've also never auditioned any NFB gear (I reside in Europe) so I cannot comment on how those compete but you don't need to put others' opinions down just because yours is different and possibly more informed. I take your opinion seriously, just as seriously as I take @Merrick 's for example, I haven't read a single comment here that has said the Jotunheim is the #1 amp TOTL best ever let alone enough to make it "stream of consciousness".
  
 Yes, hype is a real thing but I don't think that's even been too exacerbated here - people are happy with the amp, they love it for what it is, they love its functionalities, yes I have seen people write it off as being better than the Ragnarok (disclaimer: not just Colt and not just on this thread, and to be honest I don't find that hard to believe personally) but you're overdoing and over thinking things so much imo.
  
 I understand and respect the defensive stance, I truly believe you are trying to save people from falling into the "this is the best you can get, buy it now even if you can afford 1k+ amps" trap but the way you're wording your posts is uncalled for and condescending in certain situations, people can draw their own conclusions, they are just as apt to notice posting patterns from certain posters and filter what is said accordingly as you are.
  
 Not everyone who's bought and loves the Jotunheim is fooling themselves into thinking they've got the best device ever just because they, in your eyes, potentially fell victim to the hype train.


----------



## ColtMrFire

sheldaze said:


> I am kind of getting to the point where I know, quite firmly, what I like and what I dislike. But I don't yet understand the underlying, engineer terms for the why.
> I have no intent of ever selling PS1000e or HD800S, but for me these require a different amplifier (not Jot) to play well. Still I don't know why?
> 
> And I really like the Jot. Jot for me displaced my Ragnarok, due to the intimate details of how close Jot lets me get to the sound. Like you mentioned, HD650 has good clarity - at least the way I hear it. But I also liked the HE1000, HE6, Utopia, etc. If you can, I would recommend you trying the HD650 single-ended. Not recommending this way to listen, but just so you get a sense of the delta between balanced and single-ended out of the Jot. My guess is there will be only a slight difference you hear. So no, I would not recommend going the route of getting balanced cables put onto the PS1000e. I have no science or engineering to back it up, but suspect it just will not do well for you - it did not do well for me.




I agree about Jot/Rag. Rag was very good but I felt Jot was giving me moarrr. More articulation, detail, clarity, etc. This was only a day worth of A/B'ing but the differences made me appreciate Jot even more.

I am sending my T90 in to be recabled into balanced for the Jot. I listened to the HD800 and 800S both SE and balanced through the Jot and while the differences were subtle, they were significant enough for me to want to go balanced from now on. Just seemed to be more authority and control of the drivers.


----------



## acguitar84

That's exactly why (Colts post about his T90) I've been toying with the idea of sending my PS1000e in to have it balanced and re cabled as well. I have tried the 650 with both balanced and single ended with the Jot, easy to do since I have two cables. I like the balanced much better. Makes me think I could get a better sound for the PS1000e (with the Jot) by balancing them.

However, since I'm really happy with the 650 for now, I am going to continue to save for gumby or Yggy next. As cool as HD650/mimby/Jot is, I wonder what HD650/Gumby/Jot, or HD650/Yggy/Jot would sound like? I also wonder what the 800 S would sound like as a compliment to the HD650 in those setups?

I'm pretty happy atm now, so it's saving time.


----------



## bavinck

comzee said:


> @Turdski
> @Merrick
> 
> I already did about 50 pages back, so I'm not going to dig up my posts.
> ...


 
 I'm getting that out of what you wrote. You have an excellent point, well taken. Not sure why people are taking issue with what you are saying. I am going to check out those amps you recommended!


----------



## BarDash

comzee said:


> I personally like the nfb11 $350 over Jot, but that's down to preference, they're both mid-fi sounding.
> 
> Audio GD NFB-28 @ $750 is hands down better.
> Better Dac, better amp, same functionality.
> ...



I should probably just toss my wa7 in the trash now that I have a Jot and it's under the "things that are not better" list.


----------



## bavinck

I know everyone is pretty excited about the Schiit DACs (I am sure they have a great sound) but I thought I would share that my reconnaissance labs concero HD is very, very nice with the Jot. Detail, clarity, timbre, dynamics, very nice.


----------



## comzee

Btw guys, there is new Schiit:
  
 http://schiit.com/news?m
  
 I know there will be threads on them, but right off the bat, I'll say I'm super excited for the Freya.
  
 edit:
 Get your 6SN7 tubes now, because NOS ones are about to get a bit more expensive with the release of Freya / Saga.


----------



## Soundizer

I do not think Schiit would want the Jot to be too good as it would totally cannibalise sales of their higher value products, however some acceptable cannibalisation is commercially accepted in favour of launching a very competitive product. 

My point is surely the Jot is not as good as the top end Schiit products.


----------



## ColtMrFire

acguitar84 said:


> That's exactly why (Colts post about his T90) I've been toying with the idea of sending my PS1000e in to have it balanced and re cabled as well. I have tried the 650 with both balanced and single ended with the Jot, easy to do since I have two cables. I like the balanced much better. Makes me think I could get a better sound for the PS1000e (with the Jot) by balancing them.
> 
> However, since I'm really happy with the 650 for now, I am going to continue to save for gumby or Yggy next. As cool as HD650/mimby/Jot is, I wonder what HD650/Gumby/Jot, or HD650/Yggy/Jot would sound like? I also wonder what the 800 S would sound like as a compliment to the HD650 in those setups?
> 
> I'm pretty happy atm now, so it's saving time.




I also recently got to audition my Jot with someone else's Yggy. I did bring my HD650, but we mostly listened using my T90 and both his HD800+800S.

I talked about this in the Modi thread, but I felt the Mimby is 90% of the performance of the Yggy, but that last 10% was significant enough for me to come away extremely impressed with Yggy. I would not hesitate to buy it if I had the money right now, but having the Mimby, I am in no hurry and would not be terribly bothered if I never ended up getting Yggy as they are very close. Yggy just had more "meat on the bones" so to speak, a bit more "flair", authority, control, detail and resolution. Mimby is a bit laid back in comparison. Yggy seemed to be more like a flamboyant rock star that just owns whatever room he walks into, compared to Mimby as a more humble acoustic artist who is just as talented, but is more laid back and doesn't need to make himself known as much. Like David Lee Roth (Yggy) vs Jimi Hendrix (Mimby). Maybe not the best analogy but its all I got right now.


----------



## Letmebefrank

coltmrfire said:


> I also recently got to audition my Jot with someone else's Yggy. I did bring my HD650, but we mostly listened using my T90 and both his HD800+800S.
> 
> I talked about this in the Modi thread, but I felt the Mimby is 90% of the performance of the Yggy, but that last 10% was significant enough for me to come away extremely impressed with Yggy. I would not hesitate to buy it if I had the money right now, but having the Mimby, I am in no hurry and would not be terribly bothered if I never ended up getting Yggy as they are very close. Yggy just had more "meat on the bones" so to speak, a bit more "flair", authority, control, detail and resolution. Mimby is a bit laid back in comparison. Yggy seemed to be more like a flamboyant rock star that just owns whatever room he walks into, compared to Mimby as a more humble acoustic artist who is just as talented, but is more laid back and doesn't need to make himself known as much. Like David Lee Roth (Yggy) vs Jimi Hendrix (Mimby). Maybe not the best analogy but its all I got right now.




The only problem I have with this is suggesting that David Lee Roth is as talented as Jimi Hendrix.


----------



## Mr Rick

letmebefrank said:


> The only problem I have with this is suggesting that David Lee Roth is as talented as Jimi Hendrix.


 
 Substitute Freddie Mercury for DLR.


----------



## ColtMrFire

soundizer said:


> I do not think Schiit would want the Jot to be too good as it would totally cannibalise sales of their higher value products, however some acceptable cannibalisation is commercially accepted in favour of launching a very competitive product.
> 
> My point is surely the Jot is not as good as the top end Schiit products.




Apparently Schiit does not gimp new products to protect old ones. Having personally heard Jot vs Rag and Mimby vs Yggy, I can attest to this.


----------



## StanD

letmebefrank said:


> The only problem I have with this is suggesting that David Lee Roth is as talented as Jimi Hendrix.


 

 Well, I could, "Hear that Train a Com'in."


----------



## Letmebefrank

mr rick said:


> Substitute Freddie Mercury for DLR.




I can agree with that one.


----------



## LepakVT

acguitar84 said:


> That's exactly why (Colts post about his T90) I've been toying with the idea of sending my PS1000e in to have it balanced and re cabled as well. I have tried the 650 with both balanced and single ended with the Jot, easy to do since I have two cables. I like the balanced much better. Makes me think I could get a better sound for the PS1000e (with the Jot) by balancing them.
> 
> However, since I'm really happy with the 650 for now, I am going to continue to save for gumby or Yggy next. As cool as HD650/mimby/Jot is, I wonder what HD650/Gumby/Jot, or HD650/Yggy/Jot would sound like? I also wonder what the 800 S would sound like as a compliment to the HD650 in those setups?
> 
> I'm pretty happy atm now, so it's saving time.




My Yggy and Jot shipped today! I'll be sure to report back on how they sound with my balanced HD650.


----------



## ColtMrFire

lepakvt said:


> My Yggy and Jot shipped today!




That is one helluva combo you got coming! Enjoy.


----------



## rovopio

Will it still be a bargain if a Jotunheim cost $580? That's how much I need to pay in total should I get them imported, and I'm wondering if it's a bargain because it's priced at $400 or it's still very good even at around ~$600?
  
 For context, headphone will be hd650...
  
 thanks


----------



## ColtMrFire

IMO, yes.


----------



## comzee

rovopio said:


> Will it still be a bargain if a Jotunheim cost $580? That's how much I need to pay in total should I get them imported, and I'm wondering if it's a bargain because it's priced at $400 or it's still very good even at around ~$600?
> 
> For context, headphone will be hd650...
> 
> thanks


 
 I would say you need to bump up to around $800, that's nfb-28 shipped price. 
 In that regard, Jot is a great $500 price point if that's your budget.
  
 I would also recommend the Mjolnir 2, my personal favorite Schiit pairing with the HD650.
 Again, it's more expensive, so it all comes down to budget.


----------



## rovopio

comzee said:


> I would say you need to bump up to around $800, that's nfb-28 shipped price.
> In that regard, Jot is a great $500 price point if that's your budget.
> 
> I would also recommend the Mjolnir 2, my personal favorite Schiit pairing with the HD650.
> Again, it's more expensive, so it all comes down to budget.


 
  
 My budget is $400 US price, as $400 in the US will be ~$580 shipped+taxed to me. The shipping is only $50, the rest is tax. So Mjollnir and nfg-28 is far outside my budget.
  
 I'm thinking of getting the Jotunheim because of all the comments regarding it's synergy with hd650. The thing is, the value proposition of Jotunheim goes down for me as I have to pay $600 for it. Is it still an amazing amplifier at $600 or it's good _just because _it's priced at $400?


----------



## Letmebefrank

rovopio said:


> My budget is $400 US price, as $400 in the US will be ~$580 shipped+taxed to me. The shipping is only $50, the rest is tax. So Mjollnir and nfg-28 is far outside my budget.
> 
> I'm thinking of getting the Jotunheim because of all the comments regarding it's synergy with hd650. The thing is, the value proposition of Jotunheim goes down for me as I have to pay $600 for it. Is it still an amazing amplifier at $600 or it's good _just because_ it's priced at $400?




Won't you have to pay taxes on just about anything then or is it just stuff from USA? If you have to pay taxes on any amp you buy then it doesn't matter because everything else is going to cost more as well.


----------



## Maxx134 (May 22, 2017)

bavinck said:


> comzee said:
> 
> 
> > @Turdski
> ...



Probably because he says the Jot is just midfi
 and then posts what can be viewed as slandering a person who is in another forum.

There's better ways to counterweight any hype, as this other post of his that you just posted, is much more reasonable.

I am of the opinion that it "can" reach close to "TOTL" status in SS arena,
if used in optimal conditions,
By is using it fully balanced input and output,
and used in the "headphone amp" alone configuration (no DAC).

Notice, I did not say TOTL in tube amp arena.
That's another ballgame (true big leagues).
IMHO no SS amp can truly compete there. Only hybrids.
For Jotunheim to compete there, I believe a tube preamp may help, like the upcoming Freya! Lol
Just kidding about the Freya as that is $700 preamp.

Anyways, using a tube stage in front of the jot for low level signal amplification is my own preference/speculation that I will test in future.
As a vague comparison to what I am saying on another unit:
 The (solid state) unit "LIO" amp/DAC now has a tube stage replacing it's preamp stage as an upgrade.
There is a huge benefit in having tubes in it's (low signal level) preamp stage, and it is clearly noticeably improved.
So Schitt has a good point in the making of tube preamps, as that is where the benefits of tubes will be most noticed.
They state and point out 200-300V, which are the optimal operating anode values for those type tubes...
Not some low voltage settings which would place the tube in a non-linear operating curve, but I am getting a bit off topic.

Anyways,
My personal view is that the Jotunheim will be downplayed by all who have expensive SS amps! lol



lepakvt said:


> ...
> My Yggy and Jot shipped today! I'll be sure to report back on how they sound with my balanced HD650.



That is a winning combination.


----------



## tekkster

Just a little random thought update.

 I dunno if it's a burn-in benefit of the Jot (seems unlikely), or if it's the Schiit Wyrd (possible), or if my ears are just getting used to things (seems likely), but I'm finding myself reaching for the HD800 with balanced more and more since yesterday afternoon.

 Some of Lindsey Stirling's stuff is still too piercing for me, but for symphony stuff, trio-to-ensemble jazz (Thelonius Monk, band stuff, etc.), and epic soundtrack type stuff (e.g. Audiomachine, Chris Haig, Hans Zimmer etc.), I seem to be drawn more to the HD800 almost unconsciously.  Even for vocals (e.g. Norah Jones).  The T1 is sitting there on my desk, but I haven't been in the mood to listen to them or my other headphones as much, except in the evening when I was in a Lindsey Stirling mood, and even then, I reached for the sharkk bravo and mojo combo.

 Strange...considering how much I thought the HD800 was a little "too much" for the first couple of weeks, to finding myself now reaching for them more and more when using the Jot.  I never reached for them when using the Mojo.


----------



## ColtMrFire

rovopio said:


> My budget is $400 US price, as $400 in the US will be ~$580 shipped+taxed to me. The shipping is only $50, the rest is tax. So Mjollnir and nfg-28 is far outside my budget.
> 
> I'm thinking of getting the Jotunheim because of all the comments regarding it's synergy with hd650. The thing is, the value proposition of Jotunheim goes down for me as I have to pay $600 for it. Is it still an amazing amplifier at $600 or it's good _just because_ it's priced at $400?




That's a bit of a strange question. The amp doesn't get better or worse because you have to pay some sort of tax. The Jotun is as good as what you've read in these pages. An extra $200 isn't going to make it any less worth it. If realy good sound is worth $600 to you, then buy it. Its a little hard to quantify such an abstract question because everyone's value system is different.


----------



## rovopio

coltmrfire said:


> That's a bit of a strange question. The amp doesn't get better or worse because you have to pay some sort of tax. The Jotun is as good as what you've read in these pages. An extra $200 isn't going to make it any less worth it. If realy good sound is worth $600 to you, then buy it. Its a little hard to quantify such an abstract question because everyone's value system is different.


 
  
 Quote: 





letmebefrank said:


> Won't you have to pay taxes on just about anything then or is it just stuff from USA? If you have to pay taxes on any amp you buy then it doesn't matter because everything else is going to cost more as well.


 

 I'm sorry. My bad on how I wrote my posts. Yeah I have to pay tax on everything.
  
 An example would be, I have a Magni, and people said it's great. But that's because it's tied to it's value proposition. It's great _because _it's $99/$149.
 Basically I was wondering whether Jotunheim is _still retains _great value at $600 or it's price-to-performance is relative to it's pricing point at $400?
  
 I'm willing to stretch my budget to get a Jotunheim, but cheaper is always good for my situation and I was wondering if Jotunheim is amazing _partially because_ of it's price or whether it's still retains a good price-to-performance value at $600.


----------



## ColtMrFire

I compared Jot to Ragnarok (a $1700 amp) and preferred Jot. I'm not the only one who's reached this conclusion either. So yes, Jot is worth the extra tax IMO. It is not great for $400, it is just great period.


----------



## Maxx134

I can see why some may consider such a comparison hype.
Yet I don't think the Rag is a good choice in making comparisons for anything but dynamics..
Never liked the Rag or considered it better than the Oppo HA1 I had.


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

comzee said:


> @Turdski
> @Merrick
> 
> I already did about 50 pages back, so I'm not going to dig up my posts.
> ...


 
  
 The funny thing is I agree with you that this site in particular encourages a lot of hype trains for things that don't deserve it. And I can understand the impulse to want to slow a hype train down, especially if you didn't love the product in question, or feel that it's being overvalued. I was on the VE Monk thread and people were declaring that the $5 earbuds sounded better than an HD600/HD650. It's nonsense here sometimes.
  
 That being said, you've come off in this thread as acting superior, telling people they haven't heard enough out there, telling them that their opinions cannot be correct. I agree that Jotunheim isn't the best amp ever. I agree that there are amps that do things better, and that they generally cost over a thousand dollars. But there's a big difference between saying "Hey, this is a great value but you can get more SQ for double/triple/quadruple the price" and "Oh people here haven't heard enough and they're all sucking someone's dick on another forum." It's rude, it's condescending, and it overshadows your actual message.
  
 Anyway, this thread is about the Jotunheim, so I will refrain from posting about this any further. You're free to post what you want and I won't bother you anymore, promise.


----------



## Sanlitun

tekkster said:


> Just a little random thought update.
> 
> I dunno if it's a burn-in benefit of the Jot (seems unlikely), or if it's the Schiit Wyrd (possible), or if my ears are just getting used to things (seems likely), but I'm finding myself reaching for the HD800 with balanced more and more since yesterday afternoon.


 
  
 The HD800S running balanced is my favorite pairing with the Jot. I'm not finding it harsh at all but rather quite smooth with a realistic tonality.


----------



## ToddRaymond

Prediction:  Schiit will eventually release a Mjolnir/Gungnir-sized pivot point/Jotunheim uber-type amp, with the option of a multibit DAC.  Perhaps the Bifrost Multibit will be upgraded in some way, bringing it closer in performance to the Gumby (especially considering how close the Mimby and Bimby currently are), and a similar board from that design will be the board you can have installed in your Jotunheim Uber.  Similarly, perhaps a Mani Uber (Bifrost sized) is in the pipeline, and perhaps there will be the option to add that to this large Jotunheim.  And finally, Freya 2 will be a modular design, allowing for the bundling with either of the aforementioned boards.  /end speculation.


----------



## BarDash

mr rick said:


> Substitute Freddie Mercury for DLR.







letmebefrank said:


> I can agree with that one.




I can see no caomparison whatsoever. One's one of if not the greatest guitarist of all time and one's an awesome vocalist. Jimmy Page, maybe?


----------



## Letmebefrank

bardash said:


> I can see no caomparison whatsoever. One's one of if not the greatest guitarist of all time and one's an awesome vocalist. Jimmy Page, maybe?




I think that was the point though, two different types of skill, both at the top of their game.


----------



## BarDash

ohhhh, sorry just woke up. :confused_face_2:


----------



## mysticstryk

Add me to the list of people saying the Jot is an excellent pairing with the 650. Next up is my 800 but I don't have balanced cables for that.


----------



## Atavax

oh, wow. Finally got mine. I have to say before when i was using the o2 amp with the HE 400 i did not understand what soundstage was. Now i do.


----------



## Allanmarcus

I finally got to listen to Jodie at RMAF. Unfortunately I could only listen to the DAC only model, and not with a Mimby. While it sounded very good, I wasn't overly impressed with power. I used my Ether C and for some tracks I had to turn the volume up pretty high. The player, iTunes, was set to max, as was the system volume, so the DAC was being fed bit-perfect. I was also using a balanced cable with the Ether C.
  
 Don't get me wrong, it sounds very good. I was, however, more impressed with the Tungsten and the GS-X mk II 
  
 I was also pretty darned impressed with the Fostex HP-A4BL D/A Converter & Headphone Amplifier. $399 for a balanced output Amp and DAC. It does't have the spec chops that the Jodie has, but the Fostex really sounded good with the TH-600 and the Ether C. So many other factors like the source, the music, the noise, and my disappointment that I couldn't hear the JoMimby combo.  
  
 I don't think anyone would be disappointed with the Jodie. It really does sound good. It's not, however the be all, end all amp. There is and will be good competition. 
  
 Oh, I was also very impressed with the Questyle CMA600i, which is more than twice the price as the Jodie.


----------



## theveterans

You're comparing to the GSX MK2 which is known to be one of the most transparent amps like a wire with a gain. Obviously, with the power filter included in the GSX and the price too, it should best the Jodie.


----------



## Allanmarcus

theveterans said:


> You're comparing to the GSX MK2 which is known to be one of the most transparent amps like a wire with a gain. Obviously, with the power filter included in the GSX and the price too, it should best the Jodie.


 

 Duh. That's what the smiley face is for. I'm not an idiot. 
  
 The Jodie compares directly to the Fostex. If I only had $400, I would consider the Fostex as well. Since i have more money, I will be looking at high priced amps that I thought were better. The Questyle CMA600i and possibly the Pro iCan, which was also very good. The Questyle might be best value for all in one at any price, whereas the Fostex and Jodie are pretty darned good values at under $500. The Pro iCan with its tube stage, variable bass boost, and 3D holo sound (sort of a very advanced, analog crossfeed like effect) is pretty good. If the iCan SE were balanced, I really consider that.


----------



## Atavax

hearing this huge of an improvement makes me want to save $4,000 up and spend it all on a dac, amp, and headphone...


----------



## Allanmarcus

atavax said:


> hearing this huge of an improvement makes me want to save $4,000 up and spend it all on a dac, amp, and headphone...


 

 $4000 will only get you the Focal Utopia headphone! You'll need more the Yggy and Tungsten


----------



## Atavax

allanmarcus said:


> $4000 will only get you the Focal Utopia headphone! You'll need more the Yggy and Tungsten


 

 Its throws a wrench into things, because its like you think "ok, i'm going to spend $500 on a amp/dac and that is going to last me awhile, maybe forever". But no, its like I WANT MORE! This is the biggest "woah moment" since i first listened to a friend's ATH-AD700 at a LAN after having only listened to crappy non audiophile headphones previously. I'm tempted to return it and get the Yggy.​


----------



## Maelob

Welcome to the club!


----------



## theveterans

atavax said:


> Its throws a wrench into things, because its like you think "ok, i'm going to spend $500 on a amp/dac and that is going to last me awhile, maybe forever". But no, its like I WANT MORE! This is the biggest "woah moment" since i first listened to a friend's ATH-AD700 at a LAN after having only listened to crappy non audiophile headphones previously. I'm tempted to return it and get the Yggy.​


 
  
 Don't read impressions of really expensive gears. Your money will thank you for it.


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

The Jotunheim absolutely should not be judged by the quality of the internal DAC. The DAC isn't as good as the amp and it can be replaced in the future.


----------



## Toolman

theveterans said:


> atavax said:
> 
> 
> > Its throws a wrench into things, because its like you think "ok, i'm going to spend $500 on a amp/dac and that is going to last me awhile, maybe forever". But no, its like I WANT MORE! This is the biggest "woah moment" since i first listened to a friend's ATH-AD700 at a LAN after having only listened to crappy non audiophile headphones previously. I'm tempted to return it and get the Yggy.​
> ...


 

 It's like telling guys "not to press the button"...you know they will want to now LoL


----------



## jchandler3

Well I've now spent a full two weeks with my Jodie. In lieu of tossing some long review in here, I'll just share a few thoughts:
  
*Aesthetics and Build*
 This thing looks and feels great. The build quality and literal finish is on-par with my Gungnir, which is leaps and bounds ahead of the entry Magni/Modi. As usual, the buttons are snappy and solid. The volume pot is liquidy smooth and maintains great channel balance, even at low volumes. 
  
*Headphone Sound*
 The sound on this is phenomenal. Famous last words, I know, but I truly can't see myself ever wanting to upgrade from this... at least not my work desk rig. It provides my 650s ample power, especially with balanced termination. Everything just feels effortless; imagine driving a Ferrari slowly down Main street... you're keeping it held back and well under control, but you could just unleash hell at any moment. It's that sort of feeling for me. IEMs are obviously nicely powered and has the advertised low noise floor. 
  
*Preamp Sound*
 So, this was a pleasant surprise. I've been running my KRK Rokits straight from my Gungnir, attenuated with the Emotiva Control Freak. I've always liked that sound and imagined that would be as good as that equipment could get. Wowzers was I wrong. I had _no_ expectations for a difference whatsoever, so I nearly fell out of my chair when I first heard it. The Rokits have new life, with a level of energy and dynamics I've never heard out of them.
  
*Overall*
 I can't believe this is a $400-500 amp. I remember paying twice that a decade ago for my Headroom amp/DAC and the Jodie just runs circles around it. The Schiit crew did an amazing job with this little number and they should be proud. Especially when you keep its price point in mind, it's truly worth the hype and praise it's been receiving.


----------



## Sanlitun

allanmarcus said:


> Duh. That's what the smiley face is for. I'm not an idiot.
> 
> The Jodie compares directly to the Fostex. If I only had $400, I would consider the Fostex as well. Since i have more money, I will be looking at high priced amps that I thought were better. The Questyle CMA600i and possibly the Pro iCan, which was also very good. The Questyle might be best value for all in one at any price, whereas the Fostex and Jodie are pretty darned good values at under $500. The Pro iCan with its tube stage, variable bass boost, and 3D holo sound (sort of a very advanced, analog crossfeed like effect) is pretty good. If the iCan SE were balanced, I really consider that.




I feel it is better (amp only) than my Questyle CMA 800R. They are quite close actually, but the Questyle has a bit of a stretched sound, almost as if there was a DSP applied to widen the soundstage. It's always been ever so slightly unrealistic to me. In contrast the Jot is stark and very clear for better or worse like an old Weegee crime scene photo. 

It's a holiday here, so some extra time to do some listening. Hope everyone has a great weekend.


----------



## oldschool

So I've been reading people's excellent impression on the synergy between Joti and HD650.
  
 But what about HD600? For the record, I don't find the 600s harsh at all but rather smooth and forgiving with any music I have.


----------



## ColtMrFire

allanmarcus said:


> I finally got to listen to Jodie at RMAF. Unfortunately I could only listen to the DAC only model, and not with a Mimby. While it sounded very good, I wasn't overly impressed with power. I used my Ether C and for some tracks I had to turn the volume up pretty high. The player, iTunes, was set to max, as was the system volume, so the DAC was being fed bit-perfect. I was also using a balanced cable with the Ether C.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, it sounds very good. I was, however, more impressed with the Tungsten and the GS-X mk II
> 
> ...




When youre in Austin you can come by my house and listen to my Jot/Mimby (and probably soon to be Beyer T1) combo.


----------



## Guidostrunk

You have every right to post your thoughts on the jot. Imo , it's important to have varying views, and impressions. 





comzee said:


> @Turdski
> 
> @Merrick
> 
> ...


----------



## ColtMrFire

atavax said:


> hearing this huge of an improvement makes me want to save $4,000 up and spend it all on a dac, amp, and headphone...




Get a Yggy, Black Widow and HD800S. 

END. GAME.


----------



## ColtMrFire

merrick said:


> The Jotunheim absolutely should not be judged by the quality of the internal DAC. The DAC isn't as good as the amp and it can be replaced in the future.




Havent heard the internal DAC, but alot of people seemed disappointed in Jot at the Schiit show, until they were able to hear it with a better DAC... Jot seems to scale with whatever DAC you feed it.


----------



## Atavax

coltmrfire said:


> Get a Yggy, Black Widow and HD800S.
> 
> END. GAME.


 
 yeah, i know it isn't fair to compare high end senns to the 598 I had. But the 598 was such a disappointment and, the he 400 was right around the same price range and so much better than the 598 imo, I think my future high end purchases are going to be orthos or maybe even electrostatic. Before i got the Jot, i was thinking maybe the HE560 as my next can, but now i'm thinking maybe even higher end. IDK, i think i prefer brighter headphones and it seems like most orthos are described as warm and also the high weight of a lot of high end orthos has me concerned, as my neck appears to be getting more fragile with age. I think the main thing i disliked about the 598 was the quality of the bass. I don't need a lot of bass, but it needs to be high quality.


----------



## Atavax

toolman said:


> It's like telling guys "not to press the button"...you know they will want to now LoL


 
  at least with like the Jot, you can justify the purchase with the "value" aspect of it. With the high end its not like you can be like, "well, this is a good value" I think its in the yggy faq where Schiit is like, well, you're thinking about spending $2300 on a piece of equipment when a $0.32 chip in your iphone does essentially the same thing.


----------



## Allanmarcus

jchandler3 said:


> Well I've now spent a full two weeks with my Jodie. In lieu of tossing some long review in here, I'll just share a few thoughts:
> 
> *Aesthetics and Build*
> This thing looks and feels great. The build quality and literal finish is on-par with my Gungnir, which is leaps and bounds ahead of the entry Magni/Modi. As usual, the buttons are snappy and solid. The volume pot is liquidy smooth and maintains great channel balance, even at low volumes.
> ...




Are you saying the Jodie as a preamp alters the sound? I thought a preamp is just supposed to allow for volume control and pass the signal along. Is it possible you priori preamp was bad?


----------



## Vigrith

coltmrfire said:


> Get a Yggy, Black Widow and HD800S.
> 
> END. GAME.


 
  
 Might be hard to get a Widow at this point, think they were discontinued except some talk regarding the last few units they have components for being sold as one offs over time.
  


coltmrfire said:


> Havent heard the internal DAC, but alot of people seemed disappointed in Jot at the Schiit show, until they were able to hear it with a better DAC... Jot seems to scale with whatever DAC you feed it.


 
  
 I feel the internal DAC is actually pretty decent - thing is, the lack of character imposed by the Jotunheim makes it so that your source is that much more impactful; hence the MB technology shines and the standard double DS setup doesn't really impress. That's my take on it anyway. Don't think the internal DAC is actually behind that of my ($600) AK70 for example and is probably better than the Fostex HP-A4 one that I used prior to getting the Mimby.
  
 Definitely nothing super special though, and the Modi MB is.


----------



## jchandler3

allanmarcus said:


> Are you saying the Jodie as a preamp alters the sound? I thought a preamp is just supposed to allow for volume control and pass the signal along. Is it possible you priori preamp was bad?


 

 I'm not going to pretend to understand the engineering behind what's happening with a preamp, but I can only imagine that they can influence the sound quite a bit. Otherwise, why would there be so many different options for preamps in the HiFi world, at such wildly varying price points? Maybe I'm assuming too much. 
  
 I guess I'm not saying anything _generally_, as in "all preamps do XYZ," but I do _undoubtedly_ hear a positive difference with the Jodie; no placebo effect.
  
 That said, maybe what I was doing before was degrading quality in some way? Balanced line out from Gungnir > Emotiva Control Freak > powered monitors. Now it's Gungnir > Jodie > powered monitors. Maybe someone that knows more than I do can explain the theoretical difference, but in the meantime I'm just enjoying the tangible reality.


----------



## zeissiez

coltmrfire said:


> atavax said:
> 
> 
> > hearing this huge of an improvement makes me want to save $4,000 up and spend it all on a dac, amp, and headphone...
> ...




The Black Widow is no where near end game.


----------



## MWSVette

I think everyone has their own idea of an "End Game" rig.
  
 And I bet everyone of those would be different...


----------



## Oistein

Any idea how the Jotunheim would pair with the Modi 2 Multibit?


----------



## Atavax

mwsvette said:


> I think everyone has their own idea of an "End Game" rig.
> 
> And I bet everyone of those would be different...


 
 idk,
  
 Focal Utopia
 Chord Dave


----------



## tunes

Does anyone think Shiit will come out with a superior add in DAC other than their current offering? Is the DAC offering plug in for the JOT as good as in say a Questyle QP1R DAC or AK380? Can it drive the HE 1000 to really loud levels and get the full potential from them even with single ended cable?


----------



## Vigrith

oistein said:


> Any idea how the Jotunheim would pair with the Modi 2 Multibit?


 
  
 If you read the thread or just search for "modi multibit"/"Mimby"/"Modi MB" you'll find a plethora of results.
  
 In short - a very good DAC will pair well with a very good, revealing amplifier.


----------



## cherrypepsi

mysticstryk said:


> Add me to the list of people saying the Jot is an excellent pairing with the 650. Next up is my 800 but I don't have balanced cables for that.


 Would you say joy is a better pairing for 650 than Val 2? Especially for vocal. I am on the fence about getting jot or val2. Thank you!


----------



## sheldaze

tunes said:


> Does anyone think Shiit will come out with a superior add in DAC other than their current offering? Is the DAC offering plug in for the JOT as good as in say a Questyle QP1R DAC or AK380? Can it drive the HE 1000 to really loud levels and get the full potential from them even with single ended cable?


 
 Can it drive the HE-1000 to really loud levels? Yes
 Can it get the full potential from them? Yes
 In single-ended? No
  
 The HE-1000 is a tremendously good headphone. It benefits from every last tweak or change you make to the audio chain. Please try to use a good balanced cable, and set the Jot to high gain. Yes, you can go to full volume from single-ended, and most likely at low gain. But you'll not hear the full potential until you go balanced and high gain. It is not strictly a volume change.


----------



## gmahler2u

coltmrfire said:


> Get a Yggy, Black Widow and HD800S.
> 
> END. GAME.


 
 Lie!! You mean temporary END GAME!!!  Muahh ahahahhahahahahaha... 
 this can't be END GAME!!


----------



## ColtMrFire

zeissiez said:


> The Black Widow is no where near end game.




It was based on the amount of money he would spend. I'm sure there are "end game" rigs that cost more than $10,000, but most people can't afford anywhere near that. BW isn't the best amp but I was extremely taken with it when I demoed it. If one has $4K to spend on an endgame solution I have no problem recommending BW as the amp, with most of the money going into the DAC (Yggy) and transducers (HD800S).


----------



## bavinck

coltmrfire said:


> It was based on the amount of money he would spend. I'm sure there are "end game" rigs that cost more than $10,000, but most people can't afford anywhere near that. BW isn't the best amp but I was extremely taken with it when I demoed it. If one has $4K to spend on an endgame solution I have no problem recommending BW as the amp, with most of the money going into the DAC (Yggy) and transducers (HD800S).




Seems like a very expensive amp to recommend people based on 1 day of listening.


----------



## gmahler2u

Hello.
  
 after burning for 4 days (24/7), Jot's internal dac start revealing its beauty and transparency.
 Thanks


----------



## mrflibble

jchandler3 said:


> I'm not going to pretend to understand the engineering behind what's happening with a preamp, but I can only imagine that they can influence the sound quite a bit. Otherwise, why would there be so many different options for preamps in the HiFi world, at such wildly varying price points? Maybe I'm assuming too much.
> 
> I guess I'm not saying anything _generally_, as in "all preamps do XYZ," but I do _undoubtedly_ hear a positive difference with the Jodie; no placebo effect.
> 
> That said, maybe what I was doing before was degrading quality in some way? Balanced line out from Gungnir > Emotiva Control Freak > powered monitors. Now it's Gungnir > Jodie > powered monitors. Maybe someone that knows more than I do can explain the theoretical difference, but in the meantime I'm just enjoying the tangible reality.


 
  
 Preamps often degrade the sound quality. Audiophiles are usually on a quest for a transparent preamp and there are all kinds of different approaches. I imagine the Control Freak was degrading the sound, I remember reading somewhere else that it wasn't great. To be sure, you need to connect the Gungnir direct to the powered monitors compared to via the Control Freak - I imagine you will hear a noticeable difference. Then you can compare no preamp to the Jotty, I imagine the difference will be negligible.
  
 I have been searching for a good quality preamp at an affordable price and I have bought a Jotty for myself. It is connected to my Focal CMS 50's via XLR. i have not noticed any obvious negative effect on the sound compared to connecting the Modi Multibit directly. However, I have yet to do a direct A/B comparison.


----------



## mrflibble

And Schiit recently announced two new killer preamps


----------



## acguitar84

gmahler2u said:


> Lie!! You mean temporary END GAME!!!  Muahh ahahahhahahahahaha...
> this can't be END GAME!!


 
 Heck, lol, there never is an end game. Always something new out on the horizon...
  
 like that old computer commercial, the m4 and the m5. Guy's heading home with the TOTL m4 only to see someone scraping off a billboard with its advertisement to add the m5.


----------



## jchandler3

mrflibble said:


> To be sure, you need to connect the Gungnir direct to the powered monitors compared to via the Control Freak




Yeah, that would be a nice test. Unfortunately, my monitors, along with most studio monitors, don't have a volume control. I guess a preamp (even when built in to the monitor) is always a necessary evil.


----------



## mrflibble

Which monitors do you have?


----------



## acguitar84

jchandler3 said:


> Well I've now spent a full two weeks with my Jodie. In lieu of tossing some long review in here, I'll just share a few thoughts:
> 
> *Aesthetics and Build*
> This thing looks and feels great. The build quality and literal finish is on-par with my Gungnir, which is leaps and bounds ahead of the entry Magni/Modi. As usual, the buttons are snappy and solid. The volume pot is liquidy smooth and maintains great channel balance, even at low volumes.
> ...


 
 I really like the preamp sound myself with my studio monitors as well. I totally agree, what a nice surprise that was/is. I don't know what it does, but it sure sounds good. I run the jotunheim balanced into the studio monitors. I was using a mackie mixer before, but the jotunheim noticeably makes the monitors sound better. I can't wait to run something like a gumby or yggy into the Jot. I'm hoping next month, to buy one or the other finally and hook it up.


----------



## GokceYLD

vigrith said:


> If you read the thread or just search for "modi multibit"/"Mimby"/"Modi MB" you'll find a plethora of results.
> 
> In short - a very good DAC will pair well with a very good, revealing amplifier.


 

 this is the only decision I am trying to make at the moment as well. just can not decide if to go with Jot including the DAC or with Modi MB ( a it is within budget ) + JOT. 
  
 I will be using with the hd650s balanced. 
  
 :-/


----------



## cskippy

IMO, that's the easiest decision ever. I'm using Gungnir Multibit with Jotunheim and balanced HD650 and it's a truly amazing, some might say endgame, pairing. Modi Multibit is supposed to keep most of the magic of the bigger DACs for a fraction of the cost. This is a no brainer decision.


----------



## Oistein

Standing between getting the ifi iCan SE and the Jotunheim myself. Might end up getting both just to satisfy my curiosity. Time will show ^^


----------



## GokceYLD

cskippy said:


> IMO, that's the easiest decision ever. I'm using Gungnir Multibit with Jotunheim and balanced HD650 and it's a truly amazing, some might say endgame, pairing. Modi Multibit is supposed to keep most of the magic of the bigger DACs for a fraction of the cost. This is a no brainer decision.


 
  
 why it is hard for me is because I havent seen much comments comparing JOT DAC with MODI MB.. MODI could be good on its own but its the budget DAC in their lineup. and maybe the DAC inside JOT has better synergy since it is designed for the particular amp.. I actually also emailed Schiit as well but they don’t speculate on the sonic differences between the DAC products.


----------



## acguitar84

cskippy said:


> I'm using Gungnir Multibit with Jotunheim and balanced HD650 and it's a truly amazing, some might say endgame, pairing.


 
 You haven't heard the modi multibit right? I'm wondering just how much of a "step up the ladder" gumby would be in this exact setup. You're running your gumby balanced into the Jot right?


----------



## jchandler3

mrflibble said:


> Which monitors do you have?




I have the KRK Rokit 5 speakers and the matching sub (can't remember it's name off hand). Pretty great entry level monitors with a clean, punchy sound.


----------



## acguitar84

gokceyld said:


> why it is hard for me is because I havent seen much comments comparing JOT DAC with MODI MB.. MODI could be good on its own but its the budget DAC in their lineup. and maybe the DAC inside JOT has better synergy since it is designed for the particular amp.. I actually also emailed Schiit as well but they don’t speculate on the sonic differences between the DAC products.


 
 For what it's worth, I have both, I have the built in DAC in the Jotunheim and the mimby (modi multibit). While the DAC inside the Jot is a good DAC, especially for the price of admission, the mimby is definitely better. We've compared the two here at home, and the mimby is champ! IMHO. It's worth the extra cash I think. My next step is looking into either gumby or yggy though, I really want to hear either one into the Jot balanced, i bet that's an awesome sound there.


----------



## ColtMrFire

gokceyld said:


> why it is hard for me is because I havent seen much comments comparing JOT DAC with MODI MB.. MODI could be good on its own but its the budget DAC in their lineup. and maybe the DAC inside JOT has better synergy since it is designed for the particular amp.. I actually also emailed Schiit as well but they don’t speculate on the sonic differences between the DAC products.




The Modi multibit being a budget DAC has no bearing on its performance. Its an extraordinary DAC no matter the price. Its a fairly common sentiment if you read this and the Mimby thread.


----------



## GokceYLD

acguitar84 said:


> For what it's worth, I have both, I have the built in DAC in the Jotunheim and the mimby (modi multibit). While the DAC inside the Jot is a good DAC, especially for the price of admission, the mimby is definitely better. We've compared the two here at home, and the mimby is champ! IMHO. It's worth the extra cash I think. My next step is looking into either gumby or yggy though, I really want to hear either one into the Jot balanced, i bet that's an awesome sound there.


 

 thank you. what I wanted to hear.. seems I will be getting the Mimby.. advantages will be optical input to be a plus and I can always use it as a stand alone DAC with other amps incase needed. I was just not sure compared with the JOT DAC..


----------



## cskippy

acguitar84 said:


> You haven't heard the modi multibit right? I'm wondering just how much of a "step up the ladder" gumby would be in this exact setup. You're running your gumby balanced into the Jot right?



I've been in this hobby long enough and have realized that, while it's a great journey moving up the audio chain buying better and better gear, if you have the funds to get what you really want, go for it. I look back at my previous purchases and I don't regret any of them, I think to myself, why didn't I just go for the high end and be done, instead of spending a little here and there.

My one caveat to all of this is to try and audition what you want to purchase to make sure it fits your sonic preferences.


----------



## Mr Rick

One of the advantages of living in So Cal is the ability to order Schiit one day and have it delivered the next day.
  
 Fed Ex just dropped off my new Jot and I'm currently warming it up on my Headphone / Amp Test playlist into my balanced HD800 original.
  
 No complaints. The HD800 sounds as good on the Jot as on my Cavalli Liquid Carbon.


----------



## Sanlitun

gokceyld said:


> this is the only decision I am trying to make at the moment as well. just can not decide if to go with Jot including the DAC or with Modi MB ( a it is within budget ) + JOT.
> 
> I will be using with the hd650s balanced.
> 
> :-/


 
  
 I would absolutely go with external. So many choices.  So much more scalable.
  
 I personally never considered getting the DAC module, I thought it would be very limited and just serve to introduce noise into the amp section. Never heard it though, and I would be pretty curious to compare Jots with and without DAC.


----------



## Maxx134

allanmarcus said:


> theveterans said:
> 
> 
> > You're comparing to the GSX MK2 which is known to be one of the most transparent amps like a wire with a gain. Obviously, with the power filter included in the GSX and the price too, it should best the Jodie.
> ...




This was a HUGELY unfair comparison and actually not as useful because you compare a plain Jot/DAC unit to a GSX model that had a separate DAC.
Then in that state you say it is at the fostex level,
But that is not so.
The fostex simply does NOT have the power and control of the JOT.

Also, if the Jot was being fed balanced (thatvis key) from a Yggy, I would bet money it would be right up there with that GSX model.



coltmrfire said:


> atavax said:
> 
> 
> > hearing this huge of an improvement makes me want to save $4,000 up and spend it all on a dac, amp, and headphone...
> ...



Noooooowahh...
WRONG..!!! 


Black widow (on comparison to a Ragnarok from a friend), and it is a dark sounding amp, while the JOT is a very clear neutral almost bright sounding amp with more control and punch.

Plus, the HD800S has some distortion over the original HD800, 
Which can easily be modded to sound superior,
Both measured and listened.
Upon comparison you will notice the thicker lower end of the 800S to have some confusion, which is the slight distortion.
Anyways...

So , try this:

Get a Yggy, Jot, and HE1000...
THEN you have "end game!"
Lol

There really isn't end game, hate to tell you guys...
But the Jotunheim will get you more than halfway there.
Also @ColtMrFire, I think ypuay have not had optimal results because you used the version with the DAC.
My point is that is needs balanced inputs from a good DAC to achieve greatness.
Woops I think I added speed to the hype train, lol


----------



## mrflibble

jchandler3 said:


> I have the KRK Rokit 5 speakers and the matching sub (can't remember it's name off hand). Pretty great entry level monitors with a clean, punchy sound.




I used to have those speakers and the sub too  Sold them for the Focals.

The Rokits have attenuation controls on the back. You could turn then down when a/b-ing with & without a preamp.

I owned a DIY passive stepped attenuator which I used with the Rokits. It was crap and had a negative affect on the sound. Jotty seems to be the business, however


----------



## ColtMrFire

maxx134 said:


> This was a HUGELY unfair comparison and actually not as useful because you compare a plain Jot/DAC unit to a GSX model that had a separate DAC.
> Then in that state you say it is at the fostex level,
> Buy that is not so.
> The fostex simply does not have the power of the JOT.
> ...




Not sure where you got that idea. I own the Jot without the DAC. I use the Mimby as the DAC. When I compared Jot to Black Widow and Ragnarok (using Yggy as DAC, HD800+800S+T90+HD650 as cans) I preferred Jot overall but felt BW was more euphonic and I would consider it an end game option with the Yggy/800S. Very subjective but that's all this hobby ever is.


----------



## Maxx134

coltmrfire said:


> maxx134 said:
> 
> 
> > This was a HUGELY unfair comparison and actually not as useful because you compare a plain Jot/DAC unit to a GSX model that had a separate DAC.
> ...



Actually you would be correct in that sense as the BW have better synergy with the 800 which are elevated in the treble regions, and yes there is some euphoria in BW which bring it closer to tube than SS, but to me that make it a dark amp,
and an amp like torpedo is way better combo with HD800 as it gives more soundstage than either BW or Rag.

To me the Jot is easily better than the Rag in soundstage while having similar punch.
The BW was a nice amp regardless, but the torpedo (a hybrid) has more stage,
Yet with least power in the group.

Edit:
I am now thinking that the Yggy output may be louder than the Mimby...
Plus your cheating using Yggy on others..
Lol


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Unless the next words out of your mouth are "Orpheus Successor," it's not endgame. It's the best SQ _in your opinion, that you've heard, given your subjective preferences and budget._


----------



## gmahler2u

Looks like everyone in Schiit audio in Denver...My biMby is in the lab waiting to be upgrade....I should get it by next week...dude can't wait.


----------



## Mr Rick

Just a heads-up to anyone planning to use the Jot as a preamp in a 2-channel system. Plugging a headphone into the Jot *WILL NOT* mute the preamp outputs on the rear.


----------



## showme99

oldschool said:


> So I've been reading people's excellent impression on the synergy between Joti and HD650.
> 
> But what about HD600? For the record, I don't find the 600s harsh at all but rather smooth and forgiving with any music I have.



I'm thoroughly enjoying the Jotunheim through my HD600 headphones. It gives the Sennheisers a very nice increase in clarity/definition (especially with balanced headphone cables).


----------



## Maxx134

Dynamic drivers like the hd650 = 
 higher nominal impedance of 300ohm = 
key word, "nominal" = 
load varying with frequency, and music is continuous stream of complex frequencies = 
complex load to amp = 
demanding or "scalable" headphones = 
amp stress of complex demanding streaming loads to its damping factor and speed and ability = 
headphones dependent on amp = 
need powerful amp to control them not due to loudness, but because of their impedance = 
impedance mismatch = 
need fast powerful amp = 
Jotunheim is the answer = 
computes = 
HD650 performing optimally regardless of its varying high impedance = 
problem solved = 
win = 
grin = 
wallet less full but not empty = 
more schiit can buy = 
flowers for wify = 
get lucky tonight= 
the end.


----------



## bavinck

Those of you running balanced to hd650, what sonic improvements are you noticing beyond the single ended connection?


----------



## sheldaze

bavinck said:


> Those of you running balanced to hd650, what sonic improvements are you noticing beyond the single ended connection?


 
 Hopefully others will chime in here - I'm finding the difference difficult to explain because it's not a singular quality. And it is definitely not a lack of volume on single-ended, suddenly enough volume on balanced. _That_ is certainly not what I hear. It is like an extra clarity and depth to the music, along with a ease in hearing deeper. I used a song to compare, which begins with a rumble (kind of a low frequency explosion) and was much clearer on the balanced. It wasn't louder - just clearer.
  
 This is not a noise difference - it's something else I cannot quite put my finger on to explain well.


----------



## Maxx134

Clarity from control...


----------



## leafy7382

I have had my Jot for about 1 month now. Before that, I used a 12-yr old HD650 w/ Silverdragon  + Apogee Groove for my office listening, that includes doing video/audio conferencing. The overall quality of sound was punchy and loud enough. The silverdragon being 12yrs old, was a little bit worn down on the plug and was a bit noisy during loud passages, so I bought new Senn cables for it and it was a tad heavier on the lower side, and a bit warmer without loosing too much detail.
  
 Than came the Jot. It removed all the fuzziness around the sound and gave clean, precise definition from bass to treble. But on SE, I had to use high gain at around 11 o'clock to get enough volume for music listening. 
  
 http://www.allmusic.com/album/bach-solo-partitas-mw0002740769 this piece sounded amazingly live, it's like he is playing the violin right at 1 m in front of me.
  
 There is something strange about it tho, for music from the 80s (like "Last Christmas" by George Michael), the fatty/rubbery electric drums thinned down and sounds too modern to my ears. That's when I was thinking to myself, since there is balanced output from the Jot and HD650 can easily be recabled to balanced, why not give it a try? For $50 I got a modded Senn cable with Nutrik balanced connector. This really opens up a new world. The Bach piece was rendered more realistically then in SE mode, the presence of the player/violin is pretty amazing. For the 80s music, I get the drums somewhere halfway between Jot SE and Apogee Groove, but the mids and treble are much much better.
  
 I am never going back to SE anymore


----------



## acguitar84

When I got my HD650s I ordered a balanced cable right along with it, so I was able to compare right then, with the Jot in my office. I started off with SE, sounded good. Then I switched cables to balanced. Just sounded better. Not really louder so much as better defined maybe? So I switched back and it was like dang, there's a noticeable difference. So I put the balanced cable back on and it made me smile. So that's my story, lol. Sound can be hard to describe. That said, I definitely liked balanced better, and I'm glad I got that extra cable.


----------



## erics75

oistein said:


> Standing between getting the ifi iCan SE and the Jotunheim myself. Might end up getting both just to satisfy my curiosity. Time will show ^^



I've yet to pull the trigger on the jot but I love my iCan se. Powers all my headphones easily and sounds great. I'm actually considering selling my lyr 2 (gold lions) because I'm liking the se so much. What I love about the se is the ability to tweak the sound via the bass and cross feed controls. Really want to get the jot for balanced action for my hd700 and alpha primes too. Plus I've always wanted to give the hd650 another try. Had them way back when I was new to this rabbit hole and hated them. In hindsight I know I wasn't using them in a proper chain....


----------



## DavidA

sheldaze said:


> Hopefully others will chime in here - I'm finding the difference difficult to explain because it's not a singular quality. And it is definitely not a lack of volume on single-ended, suddenly enough volume on balanced. _That_ is certainly not what I hear. It is like an extra clarity and depth to the music, along with a ease in hearing deeper. I used a song to compare, which begins with a rumble (kind of a low frequency explosion) and was much clearer on the balanced. It wasn't louder - just clearer.
> 
> This is not a noise difference - it's something else I cannot quite put my finger on to explain well.


 
 better separation of the left and right channel is what it sounds like to me you might be trying to describe. 
  
 The SE / balanced auditions I did at a friends house last year with some really high end gear showed me that if the amp was designed as balanced but has both balanced and SE output use the balanced output since the electronics within the amp are designed to run optimally in balanced mode.  The gear used for the informal audition of balanced and SE that the group tried included: MHDAT Pagoda balanced option, AudioGD Master9, Liquid Glass, Liquid Gold, EC Balancing Act and AudioGD Master 11, we all though that all the headphones we were trying sounded pretty much the same from either output except the EC Balancing Act, the balanced output with the HD-800, HD-800S, HE-1k, Ether C and LCD-3 all had a touch better imaging, a touch more dynamics and a smoother sound to all of us.  Its not a huge difference that all will notice but with careful listening under great conditions in my friends purpose built sound room.  Other headphone that we tried such as the HD-600, 650, 700, T1, and HE-560 didn't display as noticeable difference as the other 5 mentioned headphones between balanced and SE on the Balancing Act, why?  My guess is run in SE mode these headphones are very close to being driven at their optimum and don't benefit with being run in balanced while the others are scaling a bit more.
  
 Bottom line for me: If I get a good deal on a high end balanced amp then I'll build balanced cables for my headphones, if not SE is just as good for me at this point in time with my current gear.


----------



## Dephezz

Does internal DAC somehow affect overall Amp quality in case I want to use another external DAC via RCA input? Would it be better to use Jodie w/o internal DAC in this case?


----------



## AlexAT

What would result in a better sound quality (HD650): Going balanced & internal DAC or not balanced and using a Mimby instead?


----------



## sheldaze

alexat said:


> What would result in a better sound quality (HD650): Going balanced & internal DAC or not balanced and using a Mimby instead?


 
 Sorry, I cannot answer your question - I do not have the internal DAC. But I'd like to know, which balanced cable are you considering? Chinese cable (linked below) is around $75, and there may be other options on eBay:
  
https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Upgrade-Version-balance-ZY-002/dp/B00A2QJLY8


----------



## AlexAT

sheldaze said:


> Sorry, I cannot answer your question - I do not have the internal DAC. But I'd like to know, which balanced cable are you considering? Chinese cable (linked below) is around $75, and there may be other options on eBay:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Upgrade-Version-balance-ZY-002/dp/B00A2QJLY8


 
 Didn't really investigate cables yet but something in the 100-150$ range I suppose so that the price would be the same as Jot + Mimby.


----------



## sheldaze

alexat said:


> Didn't really investigate cables yet but something in the 100-150$ range I suppose so that the price would be the same as Jot + Mimby.


 
 My point was if you can push your budget just a little, you can get Jot, Mimby, and a balanced cable.
  
 My recommendation for the cable is the Chinese, which I used happily on HD800. I would assume they build a similarly good cable on the HD650 too.


----------



## AlexAT

sheldaze said:


> My point was if you can push your budget just a little, you can get Jot, Mimby, and a balanced cable.
> 
> My recommendation for the cable is the Chinese, which I used happily on HD800. I would assume they build a similarly good cable on the HD650 too.


 
  Oh right, I guess that would be a great setup. I somehow thought you need a hardware-balanced DAC as well (like the DAC module for the Jotunheim) if you want to go balanced


----------



## Oistein

You do not need a balanced dac, only the jotunheim and balanced cables.


----------



## wasupdog

here's my quick and dirty comparison of the jot and rag.  i'm not trying to claim this is a proper review or anything.  equipment is a 2016 LCD-3 (with an 8-core silver cable) and Yggy running fully balanced with copper interconnects.  Yggy has been on for months and both amps were started from cold.  if you believe in burn in for amps, jot isn't burned in at all while rag has been used regularly.  jot went first for 30 minutes followed by the rag for 30 minutes and then repeat to confirm first impressions of the jot. i didn't come to any different conclusions on the second go around. 
  
 -jot is brighter and leaner.  this isn't a plus or a minus but i can see how the HD800 wouldn't pair too well with the jot.  that being said, the rag has more bass and more of a tube-like quality in the same way that we refer to the cavalli LC as tube-like considering we're talking about solid state amps
 -jot is slightly dry which is common on solid state amps
 -rag has much better on soundstage and it's not close.  on a quick first listen this is the most noticeable thing to me.  jot is more closed in with a wall of sound, similar to how sines sound.  the comparison is also similar going from an LCD-2 to and LCD-3.  
 -jot is 5 watts @ 32 ohms and rag is 9 
  
 imo, rag is the better amp but jot is amazing at it's price point.


----------



## Mercilesslord

whats a good combo for HD650? 
 Jotunheim with the internal dac or jotunheim without dac + Modi multibit?
  
 Any insights are welcome!!!


----------



## ToTo Man

mercilesslord said:


> whats a good combo for HD650?
> Jotunheim with the internal dac or jotunheim without dac + Modi multibit?
> 
> Any insights are welcome!!!


 
 This question has been asked and answered numerous times in this thread already.


----------



## MWSVette

mercilesslord said:


> whats a good combo for HD650?
> Jotunheim with the internal dac or jotunheim without dac + Modi multibit?
> 
> Any insights are welcome!!!


 
 Jot with internal DAC good,  Jot with Mimby better...


----------



## mrflibble

Hi all
  
 I'm considering an aftermarket balanced cable for my HD650, Jotunheim, Modi Multibit setup. I'm looking at Toxic Cables and Forza Audioworks cables. Would it be best to go for a pure copper cable or for a silver / copper hybrid? I would like to keep the treble relatively subdued as I am very sensitive (it was one of the reasons I chose the HD650 over the HD600). I imagine it would be better to go for a copper cable rather than a hybrid (since silver tends to be bright?), especially considering the Jotunheim is quite a forward amplifier in its presentation?
  
 Many thanks


----------



## FLTWS

wasupdog said:


> here's my quick and dirty comparison of the jot and rag.  i'm not trying to claim this is a proper review or anything.  equipment is a 2016 LCD-3 (with an 8-core silver cable) and Yggy running fully balanced with copper interconnects.  Yggy has been on for months and both amps were started from cold.  if you believe in burn in for amps, jot isn't burned in at all while rag has been used regularly.  jot went first for 30 minutes followed by the rag for 30 minutes and then repeat to confirm first impressions of the jot. i didn't come to any different conclusions on the second go around.
> 
> -jot is brighter and leaner.  this isn't a plus or a minus but i can see how the HD800 wouldn't pair too well with the jot.  that being said, the rag has more bass and more of a tube-like quality in the same way that we refer to the cavalli LC as tube-like considering we're talking about solid state amps
> 
> ...


 
  
_* *_


----------



## theveterans

Silver will tarnish faster than copper. I would go for copper for analog due to bigger bass (lower gauge numbers).


----------



## DavidA

mrflibble said:


> Hi all
> 
> I'm considering an aftermarket balanced cable for my HD650, Jotunheim, Modi Multibit setup. I'm looking at Toxic Cables and Forza Audioworks cables. Would it be best to go for a pure copper cable or for a silver / copper hybrid? I would like to keep the treble relatively subdued as I am very sensitive (it was one of the reasons I chose the HD650 over the HD600). I imagine it would be better to go for a copper cable rather than a hybrid (since silver tends to be bright?), especially considering the Jotunheim is quite a forward amplifier in its presentation?
> 
> Many thanks


 
 Cables are a touchy subject, some say it makes a difference others say no difference and then there are those that say it can make a major difference.  For the cost of the cables you are considering I would have gotten a tube amp such as a BH Crack since tubes will have a much larger effect on the sound than cables, more so since you are concerned with the treble.


----------



## mrflibble

Thank you, I appreciate the suggestions.
  
 I am quite happy with the treble presentation of the HD650 with stock cable. I thought that I would like to get the best out of my current setup by going balanced but do not wish to butcher the stock cable by re-terminating it.
  
 Plus, those aftermarket cables are so shiny 
  
 I'd probably be okay with a basic copper cable. The Toxic Cables Scorpion is £105 (I live in the UK), which does not seem too expensive.


----------



## MWSVette

davida said:


> *Cables are a touchy subject*, some say it makes a difference others say no difference and then there are those that say it can make a major difference.  For the cost of the cables you are considering I would have gotten a tube amp such as a BH Crack since tubes will have a much larger effect on the sound than cables, more so since you are concerned with the treble.


 
  
  
 To say the least...
  
 I buy cables more for the form and function than a hope for a change in sound signature.  For that type of change I look more towards different SS amps or different tubes in my tube amp.  I rank sound signature differences/changes as follows; headphones, amps, DACs, USB decrapifier/regen and then everything else ie cables, magic paper and the like.
  
 However there are those who swear by huge SQ changes with cables etc.
  
 In this hobby it is easy to find yourself looking at changes in your sound chain that may only make a difference of maybe 1 or 2 percent.  But if it works for you, it works and if it helps you enjoy the music then that is the goal.
  
 Of course this is only my .02 worth.  YMMV, IMHO, yada  yada yada....


----------



## ToTo Man

Please forgive my lack of knowledge and slight off-topic diversion, but if I used balanced cables on my HD800S or HD600, can I make them single-ended again by adding a short female XLR4 to male 1/4" jack extension cable when I want to use them with single-ended amplifiers?  I know it makes more sense just to swap out the balanced cable for a single-ended cable, but I don't want to increase wear and tear on the earcup sockets (I have cerebral palsy so am quite ham-fisted!), which makes a short XLR->SE extension lead appealing, assuming the concept works.


----------



## Mr Rick

toto man said:


> Please forgive my lack of knowledge and slight off-topic diversion, but if I used balanced cables on my HD800S or HD600, can I make them single-ended again by adding a short female XLR4 to male 1/4" jack extension cable when I want to use them with single-ended amplifiers?  I know it makes more sense just to swap out the balanced cable for a single-ended cable, but I don't want to increase wear and tear on the earcup sockets (I have cerebral palsy so am quite ham-fisted!), which makes a short XLR->SE extension lead appealing, assuming the concept works.


 
 Yes you can. No problem.


----------



## FLTWS

toto man said:


> Please forgive my lack of knowledge and slight off-topic diversion, but if I used balanced cables on my HD800S or HD600, can I make them single-ended again by adding a short female XLR4 to male 1/4" jack extension cable when I want to use them with single-ended amplifiers?  I know it makes more sense just to swap out the balanced cable for a single-ended cable, but I don't want to increase wear and tear on the earcup sockets (I have cerebral palsy so am quite ham-fisted!), which makes a short XLR->SE extension lead appealing, assuming the concept works.


 
  
 I would check over at Moon Audio under Cables/Adapters and Jacks. You can order a short jumper with a choice of connectors on either end.
 I guess other companies have the same ability but I think I saw what your looking for at Moon's site.


----------



## Mr Rick

fltws said:


> I would check over at Moon Audio under Cables/Adapters and Jacks. You can order a short jumper with a choice of connectors on either end.
> I guess other companies have the same ability but I think I saw what your looking for at Moon's site.


 
 Or get one like this on Amazon.
  
 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00A2QJOJA/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Voxata

sheldaze said:


> Sorry, I cannot answer your question - I do not have the internal DAC. But I'd like to know, which balanced cable are you considering? Chinese cable (linked below) is around $75, and there may be other options on eBay:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Upgrade-Version-balance-ZY-002/dp/B00A2QJLY8




Newegg had the same cable for 69.99 free ship btw


----------



## tekkster

sheldaze said:


> Hopefully others will chime in here - I'm finding the difference difficult to explain because it's not a singular quality. And it is definitely not a lack of volume on single-ended, suddenly enough volume on balanced. _That_ is certainly not what I hear. It is like an extra clarity and depth to the music, along with a ease in hearing deeper. I used a song to compare, which begins with a rumble (kind of a low frequency explosion) and was much clearer on the balanced. It wasn't louder - just clearer.
> 
> This is not a noise difference - it's something else I cannot quite put my finger on to explain well.


 

 While I'm using the HD800 and not the HD650, kinda in the same boat.

 After reading this, I picked three songs, and went back and forth between balanced cable and se cable (hope the headphone-side cable ports are designed for a high rate of ingress/egress otherwise I might be damaging them).  Maybe an hour and a half last night, and four hours today going back and forth, trying to see if it's my imagination or really different.   Even tried blindfolding and having my wife go to another room, randomly switching cables (or not switching them to mess with me and avoid predictable patterns) multiple times, to see if there is a noticeable difference (she snickers, and normally wouldn't do this for me, but today, she is accommodating).  And I could consistently tell a difference, even when I start each time with volume set to zero and have my wife turn up the volume at varying rates (so I can't tell).  

 There's something I can't describe (not enough audiophile knowledge).  It's more "more".  hahahahaha, that's a terrible description.  Really no longer interested in listening to these headphones on the Jot using SE cable anymore.  Now I kinda want to have my Beyer T1 (gen 1) modded for removable cables so I can try them with balanced cables, just to see what happens.


----------



## Retell

Thanks so much for this, I got to hear the Joty at CanJam and have the M9XX and have been tempted. You summed up my fear of spending money on a lateral move. 
  


fjrabon said:


> Got to spend a little bit of head time on Sunday with the m9XX and the Joty head to head.  And the results were more or less as you'd expect.  Joty is very clearly a more capable amp than the m9XX.  It's not night and day, but the difference is there.  A bit more dynamic.  However, the DAC on the m9XX was a bit better, IMHO.  Both units sound to me very neutral.  The m9XX is maybe a smidge smoother, and the Joty a bit more detailed, but that difference is fairly miniscule.  I'd say they're very similar units on the whole tonality wise, just with different capabilities.  I still love the crossfeed capabilities of the m9XX, and not needing a wall wart can be a plus for the m9XX in certain situations.
> 
> Overall, I'd say if you need amping versatility, go with the Jotenheim; it can drive everything from IEMs to the HE6 well.  It may not be the best amp in the world for every headphone, but it will acquit itself well with anything you throw at it.  If you have exclusively medium to easy to drive single ended headphones, go with the m9XX, as the better DAC will shine, and it has more features and more versatility use wise.
> 
> ...


----------



## mysticstryk

cherrypepsi said:


> Would you say joy is a better pairing for 650 than Val 2? Especially for vocal. I am on the fence about getting jot or val2. Thank you!




Sorry for the late reply, threads been moving fast. 

I'm still mostly on the fence as to which amp I prefer, with a slight lean towards the Valhalla 2. As for vocals specifically, I found the Jot to be slightly superior in that regard. The forward nature of the amp really brought out female vocals. 

Both amps are about equal overall I'm feeling. More bass slam and slightly better vocals on the Jot with a better soundstage with the Valhalla 2.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Has there been a detailed A/Bing of the Jot vs the Mjolnir 2 with LISST? I have difficulty believing Jot is really worth the expense if you have LISST.


----------



## Vigrith

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Has there been a detailed A/Bing of the Jot vs the Mjolnir 2 with LISST? I have difficulty believing Jot is really worth the expense if you have LISST.


 
  
 I own both, I have not A/B'd because the purposes they are being given is different - if you own the MJ2 with LISST and you plan to buy the Jotunheim to use with the same chain I don't think you should bother. As said my comparisons are just off of ear though I have used the same DAC/headphones with both, I feel fairly confident saying they don't sound identical but your $500 are definitely best spent elsewhere since you already own the Mjolnir.
  
 Just put it toward a Gumby!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Yeah, that's my thinking, or Yggy.


----------



## Oklahoma

Since I have seen a few requests for comparisons between the Jotunheim and Lyr 2 with LISST and haven’t seen any yet; here goes.  I am not the greatest for reviews but here are my impressions.
  
 A little background on setup.  Currently running from computer into Schiit Yggdrasil and balanced out into Jotunheim and single ended out into Lyr2 with LISST.  Headphones used are Sennheiser HD800 ran single ended; decently volume matched, not precise but close.  Jotunheim running in LOW gain and Lyr2 running in HIGH gain, more on this in a bit.
  
 POWER:
  
 So by the specs the Lyr2 is more powerful through the single ended out by almost a factor of 2; 600mW vs. 350mW.  I usually run the volume knob at around 11 o’clock on Lyr2 on high gain and Jotunheim hits the same volume at around 11:30 on low gain.  High gain is similar volume at around 10 o’clock.  As volume goes up Lyr2 drives better in high gain while it makes no difference with Jotunheim except where on the scale you are between high and low.
  
 Sound:
  
 Lyr2 can drive the HD800 very well. It has better dynamics in high gain over low. The high end doesn’t change but the lower end is more present, yes the HD800 has low end punch and it comes out more in high gain than low. The high end can have some glare.  I have a few tracks that I don’t like because of the high end and how it can come across with the Lyr2.  This is not because of the spike at around 6k that the HD800 has; I am actually not that sensitive in that range but it can become more prominent in some songs to me.
  
 Jotunheim seems to have no issue with the Hd800.  Gain seems to just determine how quick you want it to get loud.  I have noticed no change in the low end punch between high and low gain. On the few tracks I have an issue with on the Lyr2 in the high end I don’t with Jotunheim, nothing seems to be accentuated.
  
 Opinions:
  
 Lyr2: If interested in tube rolling with the option of solid state it is a clear winner.  Sound wise it sounds great and I have been very happy with it.
  
 Jotunheim: Overall I prefer the sound; it doesn’t seem to accentuate anything.  Very linear, gain only determines total power and how fast it gets there.
  
 Both: I prefer the Jotunheim. If you need the power (single ended) or want to roll tubes Lyr2 is a great amp. Sound wise Jotunheim is cleaner, it disappears and lets you hear the music.


----------



## Atavax

So if I was going to get a dac to pair with the Jot and my budget is around $600, are there other recommendations besides the biggy?


----------



## Roscoeiii

atavax said:


> So if I was going to get a dac to pair with the Jot and my budget is around $600, are there other recommendations besides the biggy?


 
 Chord Mojo would be where I would start at $600. Though if you do not need the Jot's power, you may just decide that the Mojo alone is sufficient.


----------



## Allanmarcus

roscoeiii said:


> atavax said:
> 
> 
> > So if I was going to get a dac to pair with the Jot and my budget is around $600, are there other recommendations besides the biggy?
> ...


 

 What's a "Biggy"
  
 The Mojo is is bout $450 new from Amazon UK, which is a great deal. I spoke to about the concern about keeping the MoJo plugged in all the time and the effect that might have on the battery, and they said not to be concerned. Given that, the Mojo is a pretty good desktop DAC for $450, and can be taken portable with easy, so you get two devices in one.


----------



## Atavax

i guess i incorrectly attempted an abbreviation for the bitfrost with multibit.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Yeah that's Bimby. Mimby + Jotunheim is $650, and has become the reigning mid-fi stack. Multibit takes some of the edge off the solid state.


----------



## cherrypepsi

Thanks! I guess I will get the jot.


----------



## BarDash

acguitar84 said:


> For what it's worth, I have both, I have the built in DAC in the Jotunheim and the mimby (modi multibit). While the DAC inside the Jot is a good DAC, especially for the price of admission, the mimby is definitely better. We've compared the two here at home, and the mimby is champ! IMHO. It's worth the extra cash I think. My next step is looking into either gumby or yggy though, I really want to hear either one into the Jot balanced, i bet that's an awesome sound there.



Can you run the Jot with the Modi Multibit using RCA cables and still use the balanced on the Jot? I'm in the same situation as you, I have the Jot w/ internal DAC and have been reading the posts trying to educate myself. Will it be a 'true balanced connection' even though the Modi isn't balanced? Sorry if this a dumb question.


----------



## Mercilesslord

what cables are guys using to connect ur mimby to jot?


----------



## acguitar84

bardash said:


> Can you run the Jot with the Modi Multibit using RCA cables and still use the balanced on the Jot? I'm in the same situation as you, I have the Jot w/ internal DAC and have been reading the posts trying to educate myself. Will it be a 'true balanced connection' even though the Modi isn't balanced? Sorry if this a dumb question.




Well, the way I run mine is RCA from the mimby to RCA input on the Jot. That would be a SE connection from what I understand, not balanced. Maybe you could buy a cord that would have RCA ends to XLR ends on each cord, and see if that improves the sound? I don't think that would be true balanced though. Someone more knowledgeable than I could chime in. 

As I understand it, the only way to run a Schiit DAC truly balanced into the Jot would be buying a gumby or yggy , since they have true balanced outputs, and the mimby and bimby don't, just RCA outs on those two. I think i have it right.

Mimby with an RCA hook in sounds really nice though! Hope this helps!


----------



## valtopps

can someone give me a breakdown on the sq of the jotunheim amp (soundstage, bass,ect)


----------



## BarDash

acguitar84 said:


> Well, the way I run mine is RCA from the mimby to RCA input on the Jot. That would be a SE connection from what I understand, not balanced. Maybe you could buy a cord that would have RCA ends to XLR ends on each cord, and see if that improves the sound? I don't think that would be true balanced though. Someone more knowledgeable than I could chime in.
> 
> As I understand it, the only way to run a Schiit DAC truly balanced into the Jot would be buying a gumby or yggy , since they have true balanced outputs, and the mimby and bimby don't, just RCA outs on those two. I think i have it right.
> 
> Mimby with an RCA hook in sounds really nice though! Hope this helps!




Yes it helps for sure. I'm really enjoying the balanced connection with the Jot and haven't pulled the trigger with the Multibit because I was unsure of what I'd be gaining vs losing.


----------



## earnmyturns

bardash said:


> Can you run the Jot with the Modi Multibit using RCA cables and still use the balanced on the Jot? I'm in the same situation as you, I have the Jot w/ internal DAC and have been reading the posts trying to educate myself. Will it be a 'true balanced connection' even though the Modi isn't balanced? Sorry if this a dumb question.


 
 Yes, you can use an unbalanced DAC like the Mimby or (in my case) Bimby, and still get balanced headphone output. As I understand it, the Jot's topology is balanced even if taking SE input. There's quite a difference in soundstage, bass, between SE and balanced output from Jot to my Ether C Flows.


----------



## acguitar84

earnmyturns said:


> Yes, you can use an unbalanced DAC like the Mimby or (in my case) Bimby, and still get balanced headphone output. As I understand it, the Jot's topology is balanced even if taking SE input. There's quite a difference in soundstage, bass, between SE and balanced output from Jot to my Ether C Flows.




Thank you, I didn't quite get what he was asking, time to go to sleep probably lol. Been a long day. But yes, I use a balanced cord for my HD650 into the jots balanced headphone jack in the front while using RCA to RCA in the back with mimby. It works great.

That said I really want a Yggy now though, so I can use xlr cords from Yggy and have everything balanced, for what that's worth. Also, I'm dying to finally hear Yggy and see how much more it has than the wonderful mimby.


----------



## BarDash

earnmyturns said:


> Yes, you can use an unbalanced DAC like the Mimby or (in my case) Bimby, and still get balanced headphone output. As I understand it, the Jot's topology is balanced even if taking SE input. There's quite a difference in soundstage, bass, between SE and balanced output from Jot to my Ether C Flows.


 

 So a definite upgrade in your opinion to the internal DAC on the Jot using a balanced HP jack?


----------



## mrflibble

On my Jotty the power cable is a bit wobbly in the socket and can be moved up and down. Is this normal?


----------



## bavinck

mrflibble said:


> On my Jotty the power cable is a bit wobbly in the socket and can be moved up and down. Is this normal?


 
 No


----------



## mrflibble

bavinck said:


> No


 
  
 Thanks, I will see if I can find another power cable to try.


----------



## Tuneslover

I'm still interested in hearing further Jotunheim versus Magni2Ü comparisons.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Yeah ditto. Also, Asgard and Valhalla.


----------



## i20bot

Anyone tried putting a tube buffer between the Jotunheim?


----------



## earnmyturns

bardash said:


> So a definite upgrade in your opinion to the internal DAC on the Jot using a balanced HP jack?


 
 I don't have the Jot's internal DAC, so I can't answer. I have a Bifrost Multibit DAC, which is SE, but I take advantage of the Jot's balanced output for my Ether C Flow headphones. Definitely better balanced than SE. Summary: Asgard 2 (SE) < Jot (SE) < Jot (balanced). I'm getting a Liquid Carbon this week so I'll finally run an LC vs Jot bakeoff. The LC has a different topology, with a phase splitter for SE inputs before its balanced amplification. It will be interesting to test different source materials on these.


----------



## earnmyturns

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Yeah ditto. Also, Asgard and Valhalla.


 
 Jot (SE) > Asgard 2 (SE) for Ether C Flow headphones (sourced with microRendu->Bimby). Louder piano passages could sound a bit "rough" with Asgard 2 compared with Jot, for example (I hear live jazz piano pretty often so I have some sense of how it sounds). Not that Asgard 2 is bad, I had a great time with mine for the 15 months I owned it, but Jot brings sound quite a bit closer to what I hear live. Going balanced is another step up, especially for soundstage and bass clarity (jazz double bass really pops out beautifully).


----------



## BarDash

earnmyturns said:


> I don't have the Jot's internal DAC, so I can't answer. I have a Bifrost Multibit DAC, which is SE, but I take advantage of the Jot's balanced output for my Ether C Flow headphones. Definitely better balanced than SE. Summary: Asgard 2 (SE) < Jot (SE) < Jot (balanced). I'm getting a Liquid Carbon this week so I'll finally run an LC vs Jot bakeoff. The LC has a different topology, with a phase splitter for SE inputs before its balanced amplification. It will be interesting to test different source materials on these.




Ordered the Modi Multibit today I have the Ether C's but didn't have the chance to upgrade to the Flows. Did you start out with the Ether C's and upgrade to the Ether C Flows out of curiosity?


----------



## earnmyturns

bardash said:


> Ordered the Modi Multibit today I have the Ether C's but didn't have the chance to upgrade to the Flows. Did you start out with the Ether C's and upgrade to the Ether C Flows out of curiosity?


 
 I was planning to get the C's, but before I did, the C Flows were announced, so I waited.


----------



## BarDash

I'm envious. Good decision!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Waiting on the E-Stat—or an SR009.


----------



## jchandler3

tuneslover said:


> I'm still interested in hearing further Jotunheim versus Magni2Ü comparisons.




My quick, non-flowery comparison:

Aside from the Jodie having more power, I'm noticing much more control of dynamics. "Slam" seems faster. It's also a cleaner sound with a lower noise floor. And while they're both SS, the Jodie has a slightly warmer sound. 

Simply put, the Jodie has brought out the best in my headphones. Noticably better than the M2U, despite that being a great amp.


----------



## CarlosUnchained

So the extra 200$ are worth... damn. Need more money. ******* expensive hobby.


----------



## Andrew Rieger

Anyone compare the Jot to the Ifi Ican SE?


----------



## Mr Rick

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Yeah ditto. Also, Asgard and Valhalla.


 
  
 I recently received my Jot, and put my Vali 1 and M2U in storage.  I've kept my Asgard on line for it's class A capabilities. I've also maintained my Valhalla  because it is much more capable driving SE 600 ohm cans.
  
 Proper tool for the job and all that.......


----------



## Allanmarcus

sanlitun said:


> allanmarcus said:
> 
> 
> > Duh. That's what the smiley face is for. I'm not an idiot.
> ...


 
  
 After listening to some questyle amps, I am sorely temped to get one. According to Bruce from Questyle, the 800 was specifically designed to drive the HD800. I think that is what you have there.
  
 I tried the 600i with the HD800 and the Ether C, and I was very impressed. Much more impressed than with the Jot and the Jot DAC. Very big price difference, and quite possibly due to the DACs in the Questyle equipment. If Questyle made an $800 CMA600R it would be killer. 
  
 I do not understand why Schiit doesn't stack a bimby and or mimby with the jodie on their tables. 
  
 Well, I will be getting a loaner Jodie from some friends soon, so I'll have the opportunity to try it at home, which is the only way to really get to know equipment.


----------



## showme99

andrew rieger said:


> Anyone compare the Jot to the Ifi Ican SE?


 
  
 I did, a week ago 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




:
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/818323/schiit-jotunheim-review-preview-head-fi-tv/1665#post_12913568


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

What do we want more: a tube preamp for the extra slot, or a multibit DAC?


----------



## rovopio

jchandler3 said:


> My quick, non-flowery comparison:
> 
> Aside from the Jodie having more power, I'm noticing much more control of dynamics. "Slam" seems faster. It's also a cleaner sound with a lower noise floor. And while they're both SS, the Jodie has a slightly warmer sound.
> 
> Simply put, the Jodie has brought out the best in my headphones. Noticably better than the M2U, despite that being a great amp.


 
  
 On what gain do you use the Magni Uber? High gain?


----------



## jchandler3

rovopio said:


> On what gain do you use the Magni Uber? High gain?




I don't use one set gain on any amp; it definitely depends on what headphones I'm using. Whichever gain I used on the M2U is what I use on the Jodie.


----------



## rovopio

jchandler3 said:


> I don't use one set gain on any amp; it definitely depends on what headphones I'm using. Whichever gain I used on the M2U is what I use on the Jodie.


 

 What gain do you use on your hd650?


----------



## jchandler3

rovopio said:


> What gain do you use on your hd650?




I always use a higher gain on the 650s. I feel like they need a lot of power to sound their best.

And I now run them balanced on the Jodie, which gives them overkill-amounts of power. I don't listen past 10:00-11:00 now.


----------



## Vigrith

jchandler3 said:


> I always use a higher gain on the 650s. I feel like they need a lot of power to sound their best.
> 
> And I now run them balanced on the Jodie, which gives them overkill-amounts of power. I don't listen past 10:00-11:00 now.


 
  
 Yea, even if you don't need the volume I think running the 650s on high is always better - on high + balanced from the Jotunheim I rarely go past 10 (I'm a relatively quiet listener).


----------



## murphythecat

showme99 said:


> I did, a week ago
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 oh.
 have your thoughts change? reading this, it seems its a small upgrade from ifi ican to jotunheim...
  
 anyone else compared both ifi ican and Jotun?


----------



## showme99

murphythecat said:


> oh.
> have your thoughts change? reading this, it seems its a small upgrade from ifi ican to jotunheim...
> 
> anyone else compared both ifi ican and Jotun?


 

 It's a small upgrade if you're using single-ended headphones.  However, using balanced headphones makes the Jotunheim sound MUCH better than the Micro iCan SE.  The levels of spaciousness and detail are increased even further. 
  
 I realize that this isn't a completely fair comparison, since the iCan SE doesn't have a balanced headphone output.  But I feel it's worth noting that on the Jotunheim, going from single-ended to balanced headphones is quite eye-opening.  The sound is truly amazing.


----------



## MWSVette

Just picked up a set of LCD 2's.  Having read a lot of impressions I was a little concerned the sound signature of the LCD 2's may be dark for may taste.  It is not.  The Jotunheim really make them sound great.
  
 I have yet to find a set of cans that do not sound good with this amp.   If you are on the fence about the Jotunheim, do not be, just get one.


----------



## bavinck

mwsvette said:


> Just picked up a set of LCD 2's.  Having read a lot of impressions I was a little concerned the sound signature of the LCD 2's may be dark for may taste.  It is not.  The Jotunheim really make them sound great.
> 
> I have yet to find a set of cans that do not sound good with this amp.   If you are on the fence about the Jotunheim, do not be, just get one.


 
 Agreed. All my cans sound their best on the Jot, it's pretty cool actually.


----------



## tretneo

FYI, just put my like new Jot up for sale here for those looking for a good deal on one.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/822853/schiit-jotunheim-w-usb-dac


----------



## Voxata

I'd rather pay shipping from Schiit and not lose the huge warranty. $20 difference.


----------



## bavinck

tretneo said:


> FYI, just put my like new Jot up for sale here for those looking for a good deal on one.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/822853/schiit-jotunheim-w-usb-dac


 
 Not exactly priced to sell...


----------



## Alchemist007

voxata said:


> I'd rather pay shipping from Schiit and not lose the huge warranty. $20 difference.


 

 Paypal fees are like 3%, that's $15, practically no difference.


----------



## tretneo

alchemist007 said:


> Paypal fees are like 3%, that's $15, practically no difference.


 
  
  


bavinck said:


> Not exactly priced to sell...


 
  
 Good points, I've adjusted the price to roughly $120 less than I paid w/ tax and shipping.


----------



## wasupdog

tretneo said:


> Good points, I've adjusted the price to roughly $120 less than I paid w/ tax and shipping.


 
  
 great deal for us CA peeps who have to pay tax on top of shipping.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Do people prefer Joti to Mjolnir 2 with LISST?


----------



## Mirakoolz

Does the Jot have any popping or clicking noise during power cycles?


----------



## Dephezz

mirakoolz said:


> Does the Jot have any popping or clicking noise during power cycles?


 
 Mine has. Using internal DAC/external DAC via RCA/no DACs. One click at the start with 14sec delay, not loud enough to do any harm to equipment on high gain at any volume.


----------



## lwoodfball

I am currently working on building my "endgame" headphone rig. I have decided to go with the audeze lcd 3 with fazor as my headphones. And this cuts deeply into my budget. I have about $1000 left in my budget and want to get the best bang of my buck. I am looking at getting the jotunheim with the upgraded bifrost as my set up. I would greatly appreciate any advice on this matter.
My current set up 
Tidal HIFI> ODAC> TUBE MAGIC D1> Q701 
SPEAKER SETUP 
TIDAL HIFI> ODAC> MARANTZ SR5008> B&W 685 S2
Portable 
Tidal hifi> dragonfly red> IE80


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

What sort of advice are you looking for? The Jotunheim should sound good with most planars. If you want to save some money without any loss of fidelity, get a Modi Multibit instead of a Bifrost.


----------



## lwoodfball

I was also look at the MJOLNIR 2 not sure what the best choice for the money. 
My current set up
Tidal HIFI> ODAC> TUBE MAGIC D1> Q701
SPEAKER SETUP
TIDAL HIFI> ODAC> MARANTZ SR5008> B&W 685 S2
Portable
Tidal hifi> dragonfly red> IE80


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

lwoodfball said:


> I was also look at the MJOLNIR 2 not sure what the best choice for the money.


 
 If you want the total flexibility to run tubes or SS, Mjolnir is the easy choice. Pair it with a Mimby instead of a Bifrost to stay within budget.
  
 If tubes/changing the sound sig isn't as important to you, Jotunheim could be the better option.


----------



## Mercilesslord

is the jotunheim supposed to run that hot? to the extent that it burns when i place my hand on it for more than 5secs?


----------



## Dephezz

mercilesslord said:


> is the jotunheim supposed to run that hot? to the extent that it burns when i place my hand on it for more than 5secs?


 
 i think it shouldn't be so hot. Mine is working since morning and i can easily keep my hand on it. Its just warm, but not hot. Yet if i place my DX80 on Jodies top to cover all that holes, it becomes a little more warmer. But still i cant consider it's hot enough to deliver any discomfort.
 Do u have any kind of surge protector?


----------



## mrflibble

No, my jotty does not run that hot. It only gets warm.


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

mirakoolz said:


> Does the Jot have any popping or clicking noise during power cycles?


 
 Mine makes no noises at all during power cycles. It has no internal dac so maybe the dac causes the noise at power cycles for a lot of people.


----------



## Mirakoolz

Minor Question
  
 what is the power consumption of the Jot? i dont see it documented anywhere.
 Thanks


----------



## mrflibble

Mine has no internal DAC but does click on power-up.


----------



## nerone

mirakoolz said:


> Minor Question
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 

According to the website (specs section), 25w typical.


----------



## Mirakoolz

nerone said:


> According to the website (specs section), 25w typical.


 
  
 Ah? dont know why i didnt see that there. Cheers
 Thats quite a lot for a headphone amp? nearly as much as an asgard2 Class-A


----------



## fdhfdy

I use this dac/amp with hd600s. its pretty good. I cant tell much difference to liquid fire ,zana duex se or Hugo tt...


----------



## FLTWS

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Do people prefer Joti to Mjolnir 2 with LISST?


 
  
 Haven't gotten to it yet but should in a week or so. I've spent the past 7 days comparing Black Dragon and DanaCable Lazuli HP cables for my HD800. Need some down time for my ears, or at least some listening for pleasure time.
  
 From my notes - one of the reasons I have 3 different Schiit HP amps:
  

_My MJ2 is good design that gives me some good ole’ tube sound, and with “rolling” it becomes a chameleon and with  LISST complete flexibility. The Jodie (sans DAC or phono) is a good example of the some of the best a pure SS circuit has to offer and I like it as well. And for me, the Ragnarok, somehow, seems to straddle both of the other two’s sonic worlds in a good way.__ At least to my ears._ 
  
 When I get to the LISST's that will complete my Schiit Headphone Amp tour.


----------



## nicdub

mirakoolz said:


> Does the Jot have any popping or clicking noise during power cycles?




Mine makes clicking sounds when powering off, it's about 4 clicks on turn off, same every time. I'll have to check when powering on. This is an external sound, not something I hear through the headphones. I always unplug my headphones when powering on and off.


----------



## Sanlitun

mirakoolz said:


> Does the Jot have any popping or clicking noise during power cycles?


 
  
 Not through the phones. There is a subtle mechanical sound of the relays opening on power up.
  
 I have a Lyr that does a scary pop so I am glad Schiit has fixed all of this. I feel that the products they have produced at their new location are of a far better quality than the older ones.


----------



## gmahler2u

Hello.
 Finally, Got my upgraded Bimby and Jot combo.  I see now why ppl are raving about jot and mimby or bimby combo setup.  It REALLY make my HD 800 sing and it makes music sooo transparent...(This is ONLY youtube vidio sound).  Other 24bit- 96,192 and other...You're in the music....man I can go on like this forever!!! I would highly recommend this set up...mimby or bimby..  
  
 Of course this is NOT a end game set up BUT this is really tasty SCHIIT!!
  
 Thanks Jason and his SCHIIT!!  LOLO  ;P


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Schiit has done tremendous stuff for hd800. Vali 1 and 2, Valhalla, Jotunheim, Mjolnir 2 are all revelations. Ragnarok is transcendent.


----------



## earnmyturns

mirakoolz said:


> Does the Jot have any popping or clicking noise during power cycles?


 
 Why would you power-cycle it? Just leave it on 24/7, it doesn't get that warm, unlike the Asgard 2 I had before.


----------



## earnmyturns

lwoodfball said:


> I am currently working on building my "endgame" headphone rig. I have decided to go with the audeze lcd 3 with fazor as my headphones. And this cuts deeply into my budget. I have about $1000 left in my budget and want to get the best bang of my buck. I am looking at getting the jotunheim with the upgraded bifrost as my set up. I would greatly appreciate any advice on this matter.
> My current set up
> Tidal HIFI> ODAC> TUBE MAGIC D1> Q701
> SPEAKER SETUP
> ...


 
 Bifrost Multibit + Jotunheim is a great stack (at least with my MrSpeakers Ether C Flows), but the Bifrost will benefit from a solid digital source. How do you plan to feed it? Direct USB from a PC or Mac? If so, please read this, and another $100 for a Schiit Wyrd might help if signal quality is not what you hoped for.


----------



## earnmyturns

mercilesslord said:


> is the jotunheim supposed to run that hot? to the extent that it burns when i place my hand on it for more than 5secs?


 
 Not mine, which has been on 24/7 for a month or so.


----------



## earnmyturns

mirakoolz said:


> Ah? dont know why i didnt see that there. Cheers
> Thats quite a lot for a headphone amp? nearly as much as an asgard2 Class-A


 
 Difference is that the A-2 puts that out constantly, being class A. I don't think the Jotie does, at least to judge by how relatively cool it runs at normal hearing levels.


----------



## earnmyturns

gmahler2u said:


> Of course this is NOT a end game set up BUT this is really tasty SCHIIT!!


 
 There is no endgame. Your taste, ears, and budget keep changing. I stopped for now at Bimby+Jodie because it satisfies, it fits well the space in my home office, and it's so good I can't be bothered to spend the time to investigate upgrades, try them out, and sell the older gear. (I lie a bit: before the Jotie emerged, I had a Liquid Carbon on order that finally arrived, and I'll be testing it against the Jotie once it's burned in. I suspect that in any case the LC will find its way to my desk at work, I have a special affection for my Bimby+Jodie stack).


----------



## Alchemist007

The multiquote function is there to prevent quintuple posting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## Mirakoolz

earnmyturns said:


> Why would you power-cycle it? Just leave it on 24/7, it doesn't get that warm, unlike the Asgard 2 I had before.


 
 the way Ive been using my headphones is quite sporadic.
 i could sit down and listen to one song before getting nagged, or a few hours while working.
 Power costs in Australia is expensive and every little bit helps.
 We pay average $550 AUD per quarter for a household of 2+2


----------



## grrorr76

mirakoolz said:


> the way Ive been using my headphones is quite sporadic.
> i could sit down and listen to one song before getting nagged, or a few hours while working.
> Power costs in Australia is expensive and every little bit helps.
> We pay average $550 AUD per quarter for a household of 2+2


 

 simple get solar we have so much sun here in oz don't get a power bill anymore


----------



## rayquaza

Hi. Im still new to Dacs and amps.. i still have no idea how to connect the dacs etc. Im planning to upgrade from the ifi micro idsd to the Schiit Jotunheim.. 

May i ask is it possible to connect my Ak player 2.5mm balanced to Jotunheim's dual xlr input? So it will be like this..

Ak300(2.5mm balanced out)>Jotunheim(hp balanced out)>Audeze lcd 2.. 

Will this work? Do i still need the balanced module? Im thinking of a fully balanced setup. I will be using 2.5mm balanced to dual xlr cables for balanced connection.

Or should i stick to Ak300(transport)>ifi micro idsd(rca out)>Jotunheim(hp balanced out)>Audeze lcd 2

Thanks.


----------



## SearchOfSub

sheldaze said:


> Hopefully others will chime in here - I'm finding the difference difficult to explain because it's not a singular quality. And it is definitely not a lack of volume on single-ended, suddenly enough volume on balanced. _That_ is certainly not what I hear. It is like an extra clarity and depth to the music, along with a ease in hearing deeper. I used a song to compare, which begins with a rumble (kind of a low frequency explosion) and was much clearer on the balanced. It wasn't louder - just clearer.
> 
> This is not a noise difference - it's something else I cannot quite put my finger on to explain well.





You would get the same effect if you were to go to higher sampling rates from pcm to dsd etc. You are getting more resolution through balanced vs. se.

higher resolution basically means more information. balanced cables are allowing more information to come through than se and preventing from info getting lost. SE use single wire and balanced uses two wires that mirror the other. This gets ride of all noise and hum and efi/Rfi etc while retrieving the original signal at double strength. This would prabably mean more details, and due to more info/details you will hear more depth in stage, and more air, extension etc.


----------



## sheldaze

post #1900: 





> Clarity from control...


 
  
post #1904: 





> better separation of the left and right channel is what it sounds like to me you might be trying to describe.


 
  
 Thank you sirs!
  
post #2012: 





> You would get the same effect if you were to go to higher sampling rates from pcm to dsd etc. It is basically resolution. You are getting more resolution through balanced vs. se.


 
 This makes no sense, to me.
  
 In my case, I am using an external balanced source. So it is strictly an electrical topic. I do not want to discuss PCM and DSD. Nor do I agree that simply changing audio format will result in the deltas I heard. I have many samples of music in various formats, including DSD and several sample rates of PCM. This is not what I heard.


----------



## SearchOfSub

You are hearing lesser noise/rfi/efi due to double wires playing at double strength of the original source. extra clarity and depth to stage means lesser noise. I'm not talking about lesser noise as in blacker baxkround, I mean lesser noise from original signal which translates to transparency.

You would hear the same difference between pcm vs dsd on your same old setup. You would also hear the same difference even on your new balanced setup pcm vs dsd. 

Now you got resolution working on hardware level not just software. It's the same, more info and lesser noise.


----------



## Guidostrunk

My thoughts exactly lol.


merrick said:


> If you want the total flexibility to run tubes or SS, Mjolnir is the easy choice. Pair it with a Mimby instead of a Bifrost to stay within budget.
> 
> If tubes/changing the sound sig isn't as important to you, Jotunheim could be the better option.


----------



## earnmyturns

searchofsub said:


> You are hearing lesser noise/rfi/efi due to double wires playing at double strength of the original source. extra clarity and depth to stage means lesser noise. I'm not talking about lesser noise as in blacker baxkround, I mean lesser noise from original signal which translates to transparency.
> 
> You would hear the same difference between pcm vs dsd on your same old setup. You would also hear the same difference even on your new balanced setup pcm vs dsd.
> 
> Now you got resolution working on hardware level not just software. It's the same, more info and lesser noise.


 
 I don't think that's right. The main benefit of balanced amplification and transmission is greater common-mode rejection, that is, lowering of the noise coming in phase into both input terminals (common-mode noise), because the in-phase noise on both wires gets subtracted out. For details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balanced_line. I don't see how PCM or DSD has anything to do with common-mode noise. Common-mode noise comes from electromagnetic interference with wiring and circuitry, from ground loops, from leakage currents between components (between digital source and DAC, for example).


----------



## menieres

Any Jotunheim and Project Polaris comparison?


----------



## bmoregnr

Basic question I know, but this thing is either a dac/preamp or a phono preamp, it cannot be both correct?


----------



## Dephezz

bmoregnr said:


> Basic question I know, but this thing is either a dac/preamp or a phono preamp, it cannot be both correct?


 
 Right. You have to choose: 1) dac/amp, 2) phono/amp, 3) amp.


----------



## CarlosUnchained

Any comparison between Jot vs DacMagic Plus?


----------



## Delayeed

carlosunchained said:


> Any comparison between Jot vs DacMagic Plus?


 
 DacMagic Plus is trash stay away from it. So many build quality issues + harsh treble it's not worth 200$ IMO


----------



## earnmyturns

I'd been using my Jodie in low-gain mode with a balanced cable into Ether C Prime headphones, with volume knob typically around 12 o'clock . I got a Liquid Carbon a couple of days ago and I've been burning t in without headphones (as recommended) from a different source. Out of curiosity, tried the LC in place of the Jodie, and I found that it wasn't loud enough in its low-gain mode, so I switched it to high gain. When I put the Jodie back in, I switched it also to high gain, just to check, and I found that it seems to sounds better, more lively, with volume knob 9-10 o'clock. Yes, I know that volume can confuse these comparisons, so I'm not sure what to think.


----------



## sheldaze

earnmyturns said:


> I'd been using my Jodie in low-gain mode with a balanced cable into Ether C Prime headphones, with volume knob typically around 12 o'clock . I got a Liquid Carbon a couple of days ago and I've been burning t in without headphones (as recommended) from a different source. Out of curiosity, tried the LC in place of the Jodie, and I found that it wasn't loud enough in its low-gain mode, so I switched it to high gain. When I put the Jodie back in, I switched it also to high gain, just to check, and I found that it seems to sounds better, more lively, with volume knob 9-10 o'clock. Yes, I know that volume can confuse these comparisons, so I'm not sure what to think.


 
 I too was surprised. High gain was better, unrelated to volume, on my previous HE-1000 headphones. Both were running from the balanced outputs, so there was plenty of power for me in either high or low gain. But I preferred the sound in high gain. The simplest comparison was the bass became more full in high gain.


----------



## bavinck

You guys feeling high gain is better: did you volume match?


----------



## leafy7382

I used to think low gain was better without even trying the high gain. So it was balanced + low gain. Music was smooth and well defined, but when I tried high gain, it felt "fuller", the presence of the sound became more substantial. I didn't notice any noise with high gain at the same volume.


----------



## bavinck

leafy7382 said:


> I used to think low gain was better without even trying the high gain. So it was balanced + low gain. Music was smooth and well defined, but when I tried high gain, it felt "fuller", the presence of the sound became more substantial. I didn't notice any noise with high gain at the same volume.




Did you volume match?


----------



## leafy7382

Yes I did, using a sample sound from my mbp


----------



## Clemmaster

bavinck said:


> Did you volume match?


 
 Did you? If you did, we're buddies.


----------



## bavinck

clemmaster said:


> Did you? If you did, we're buddies.


 
 Haven't tested it yet. To my understanding there should not be a difference, and another headfier has already tested by volume matching and indicated he did not hear a difference.
  
 Little dose of healthy skepticism is always needed around these parts


----------



## bavinck

leafy7382 said:


> Yes I did, using a sample sound from my mbp


 
 What's mbp?


----------



## Byronb

bavinck said:


> What's mbp?


 
 MacBook Pro I assume.


----------



## leafy7382

Yeah, macbookpro. Well, I am happy and don't have to fiddle with the stuff anymore, till the next season of GAS hits.


----------



## bavinck

leafy7382 said:


> Yeah, macbookpro. Well, I am happy and don't have to fiddle with the stuff anymore, till the next season of GAS hits.


 
 What's GAS? Too much farting?? LOL


----------



## leafy7382

Gear acquisition syndrome LOL, it's a common issue with amateur photographers.


----------



## Clemmaster

bavinck said:


> To my understanding there should not be a difference


 
  
 Why?
 Usually gain setting modify the feedback gain, which in turns changes the distortion profile of the amp. That could be audible.
  
 The Asgard 2 certainly sounds better on high gain. Lower feedback.


----------



## bavinck

clemmaster said:


> Why?
> Usually gain setting modify the feedback gain, which in turns changes the distortion profile of the amp. That could be audible.
> 
> The Asgard 2 certainly sounds better on high gain. Lower feedback.


 
 It was just my understanding. I don't know anything about amp construction. I will have to test myself at some point.


----------



## Alchemist007

I prefer low gain as it has better fine tuning with the volume anyways.


----------



## stormdrain667

Just about to pull the plug and get the Jot with the built in DAC.
  
 I would love to get a multi-bit dac and keep hearing about how the Modi-Multi is soo much better than the built-in.
 My budget doesn't stretch to getting the Job and the Mimbi.
  
 So I'm wondering would it be better to the Vali 2 and the Mimbi or the Job with the built in DAC?
 Does anyone have the Vali2/Mimbi combo to compare with the Jot + builtin?
  
 Not quite sure the difference getting a better amp vs getting a better dac will make.
  
 Currently I have the HD700 but will probably sell them and get the HD650s.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Dephezz

stormdrain667 said:


> Just about to pull the plug and get the Jot with the built in DAC.
> 
> I would love to get a multi-bit dac and keep hearing about how the Modi-Multi is soo much better than the built-in.
> My budget doesn't stretch to getting the Job and the Mimbi.
> ...


 
 You must know that overall Jodie's internal DAC is good. For 100$. BUT the main "issue" is that despite it has nice punchy, solid, thick sub-bass (40-70Hz), it has much less quantity in mid-upper bass range (80-250Hz). Yet it is very detailed with lots of nuances in that region. Thats why this DAC is nice for classic, jazz, ambient, where you don't need much of mid-upper bass presence/quantity, but u need it to be detailed and natural. Jodie's DAC is cold, delicate with trend to be natural and laid-back.
 I dont use it for EDM, trip/hip-hop and cant suggest it for almost all dynamic/energy music, because you will get thin/cold sound and it wont make you dance/knock your head . But, if u mostly listen to classic/jazz and melodic music - this DAC is allright.
 IMO u should go with Jodie + Internal. U will have a very nice amp/preamp and normal dac. In the future u can buy DAP/DAC and get better SQ.


----------



## tamleo

stormdrain667 said:


> Just about to pull the plug and get the Jot with the built in DAC.
> 
> I would love to get a multi-bit dac and keep hearing about how the Modi-Multi is soo much better than the built-in.
> My budget doesn't stretch to getting the Job and the Mimbi.
> ...



I asked Schiit once the same question but they refused to answer me. According to my experience, amp will make a bigger difference than dac ymmv.


----------



## theveterans

dephezz said:


> You must know that overall Jodie's internal DAC is good. For 100$. BUT the main "issue" is that despite it has nice punchy, solid, thick sub-bass (40-70Hz), it has much less quantity in mid-upper bass range (80-250Hz). Yet it is very detailed with lots of nuances in that region. Thats why this DAC is nice for classic, jazz, ambient, where you don't need much of mid-upper bass presence/quantity, but u need it to be detailed and natural. Jodie's DAC is cold, delicate with trend to be natural and laid-back.
> I dont use it for EDM, trip/hip-hop and cant suggest it for almost all dynamic/energy music, because you will get thin/cold sound and it wont make you dance/knock your head . But, if u mostly listen to classic/jazz and melodic music - this DAC is allright.
> IMO u should go with Jodie + Internal. U will have a very nice amp/preamp and normal dac. In the future u can buy DAP/DAC and get better SQ.




If you mainly listen to pop, EDM, rock, loud and compressed recordings, definitely get the multibit. It'll knock your socks off on how dynamic and how much PRAT the multibit delivers with those genres. You'll be dancing and nodding in no time as soon as you hit play.


----------



## Dephezz

theveterans said:


> If you mainly listen to pop, EDM, rock, loud and compressed recordings, definitely get the multibit. It'll knock your socks off on how dynamic and how much PRAT the multibit delivers with those genres. You'll be dancing and nodding in no time as soon as you hit play.


 
 Yeah! Totally agree! Thats why i currently use iBasso DX80 as DAC. Dual CS4398 are very nice. Shpongle now sounds crazy on my KRKs! Definitely my next buy will be nice R2R DAC!


----------



## Tomasz2D

sanlitun said:


> I feel it is better (amp only) than my Questyle CMA 800R.




What's that black box on top?


----------



## Otter7

Anyone else received a defective Joti?
  
 I received a new Joti recently and found that it sounded pretty poor.  The dynamics were there but the details and image were very muddy even after a few days warm-up.  It was far worse than an old Musical Fidelity VCAN-II amp that I had lying around.  I was feeding with a Yggy and I have both high end amp/speaker rig and another amp (Musical Fidelity M1-HPAp) that made me sure that signal was absolutely clean.  Cans were HD650.
  
  I tried both SE and balanced inputs and hi and lo gain settings.  There was a slight improvement with balanced & lo gain but the result was still completely unacceptable.  Needless to say I sent it back.
  
 Based on other comments about this amp I must of received a lemon.  Has anyone else had a similar experience?


----------



## Roscoeiii

otter7 said:


> Anyone else received a defective Joti?
> 
> I received a new Joti recently and found that it sounded pretty poor.  The dynamics were there but the details and image were very muddy even after a few days warm-up.  It was far worse than an old Musical Fidelity VCAN-II amp that I had lying around.  I was feeding with a Yggy and I have both high end amp/speaker rig and another amp (Musical Fidelity M1-HPAp) that made me sure that signal was absolutely clean.  Cans were HD650.
> 
> ...


 
 Hopefully you informed Schiit that you suspected it was defective when you returned it. In my experience, their customer service is excellent.


----------



## Otter7

roscoeiii said:


> Hopefully you informed Schiit that you suspected it was defective when you returned it. In my experience, their customer service is excellent.


 

 Indeed I did in both my request for and RMA and in a note in the box with the unit.


----------



## FLTWS

otter7 said:


> Indeed I did in both my request for and RMA and in a note in the box with the unit.


 
  
 Please post a follow up impression after it gets returned, would be curious to know if / what the issue was. Did you make a note of the serial number?
  
 My unit has been turning in solid all around performance since I got it.
  
 Thanks


----------



## Otter7

fltws said:


> Please post a follow up impression after it gets returned, would be curious to know if / what the issue was. Did you make a note of the serial number?
> 
> My unit has been turning in solid all around performance since I got it.
> 
> Thanks


 

 I thought of noting the serial number too late (doh!).  If a replacement comes back, I will definitely note my impressions.  
  
 What I was hoping for was that the Joti would give my MF M1-HPAp a run for the money.  The MF is a standard discrete class-A design and so has lots of detail but so-so dynamics.  Thanks.


----------



## LepakVT

otter7 said:


> Anyone else received a defective Joti?
> 
> I received a new Joti recently and found that it sounded pretty poor.  The dynamics were there but the details and image were very muddy even after a few days warm-up.  It was far worse than an old Musical Fidelity VCAN-II amp that I had lying around.  I was feeding with a Yggy and I have both high end amp/speaker rig and another amp (Musical Fidelity M1-HPAp) that made me sure that signal was absolutely clean.  Cans were HD650.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 My Yggy + Jot + HD650 has sounded fantastic to my ears since I got the new Schiit in.
 Sorry to hear about your unit.


----------



## stormdrain667

theveterans said:


> If you mainly listen to pop, EDM, rock, loud and compressed recordings, definitely get the multibit. It'll knock your socks off on how dynamic and how much PRAT the multibit delivers with those genres. You'll be dancing and nodding in no time as soon as you hit play.


 
  
 Thanks for the info, very helpful!
  
 Yeah I do listen to EDM so that really has me thinking... is the downgrade in amp worth the trade off though?
  
 But I don't just listen to EDM, also classical and folk.
  
 There is also the possibility that Schiit will magically make a multibit dac for the Jot one day....


----------



## theveterans

An Asgard 2 won't bottleneck the Multibit that much. If you're looking for a good amp within your budget. In fact, I still use the Asgard 2 as preamp for my speakers. All of the multibit goodness are well resolved through the Asgard 2 as well as the Class AB amp that's built-in to my active speakers.


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

stormdrain667 said:


> Thanks for the info, very helpful!
> 
> Yeah I do listen to EDM so that really has me thinking... is the downgrade in amp worth the trade off though?
> 
> ...


 

 Get the Joti with the internal DAC and if Schiit ever makes a multibit card for it, you can upgrade. Or save up and get a Gumby/Yggy and pair it with the Joti!


----------



## stormdrain667

Ok done!
  
 Thanks for the help!


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

Enjoy!


----------



## franzdom

I believe this was touched on earlier but not revisited:
 Is there good reason to get a Jot and use Mjolnir 2 with great tubes as a pre-amp? Perhaps not long term but it is very tempting to check out.
 I wonder how it would compare to MJ2 alone (has anybody tried)?


----------



## Mirakoolz

i like the idea if having a balanced Amp/Dac should i fancy venturing into that realm in the future
 is the Jot the cheapest fully balanced Amp (or combo) available?


----------



## grrorr76

mirakoolz said:


> i like the idea if having a balanced Amp/Dac should i fancy venturing into that realm in the future
> is the Jot the cheapest fully balanced Amp (or combo) available?


 

 not the cheapest but close to it. Matrix audio make a few


----------



## BarDash

mirakoolz said:


> i like the idea if having a balanced Amp/Dac should i fancy venturing into that realm in the future
> is the Jot the cheapest fully balanced Amp (or combo) available?



Not the cheapest but one of the best IMHO for the price.


----------



## fdhfdy

otter7 said:


> Anyone else received a defective Joti?
> 
> I received a new Joti recently and found that it sounded pretty poor.  The dynamics were there but the details and image were very muddy even after a few days warm-up.  It was far worse than an old Musical Fidelity VCAN-II amp that I had lying around.  I was feeding with a Yggy and I have both high end amp/speaker rig and another amp (Musical Fidelity M1-HPAp) that made me sure that signal was absolutely clean.  Cans were HD650.
> 
> ...



Can I ask what speakers do you have?


----------



## Mirakoolz

grrorr76 said:


> not the cheapest but close to it. Matrix audio make a few


 
  
 Ah thats right.
 at one point i was looking at the Matrix HPA-3U. however a 'trusted opinion' on youtube highlighted a fault which has sort of turned me off the brand, so... no to the HPA-3B
 their other bigger units have output impedance of 10 ohms which don't suit some of my existing headphones (X2, Momentum 2.0)


----------



## Otter7

fdhfdy said:


> Can I ask what speakers do you have?


 

 Harbeth HL5.


----------



## Roscoeiii

Anyone try the Jot with a HiFiMan HE-5LE or other HiFiMan planars?


----------



## Atavax

roscoeiii said:


> Anyone try the Jot with a HiFiMan HE-5LE or other HiFiMan planars?


 
  
 I don't have the 5LE, i do have the HE 400 and I just bought some used HE 560s, but they might not arrive until next week. The Jot works phenomenally well with the HE 400


----------



## Jiggybutt

roscoeiii said:


> Anyone try the Jot with a HiFiMan HE-5LE or other HiFiMan planars?


 
 I have the he-560. I am pretty new in the headphone field and can only compare to my old Magni. Jot drives my headphones really good. It's punchy and sounds more alive than my old amp. In the process of building a balanced cable.


----------



## bavinck

Jot drives the 560 just fine.


----------



## Sanlitun

tomasz2d said:


> What's that black box on top?


 
  
 That's the Bakoon HPA-01. I was comparing some of my favorite headphone experiences such as the sound of the LCD-X running from the current output of the Bakoon with the HD 800S running out of the Jot. 
  
 I've ended up running the LCD-X out of the Jot with the supplied Audeze balanced cables. The power and transparency the Jot provides is a good fit with the Audeze sound.


----------



## Tuneslover

Did it! Ordered a Jotunheim from Vancouver's "The Headphone Bar". Looking forward to hearing my balanced HD650'so through it and my Bimby.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

franzdom said:


> I believe this was touched on earlier but not revisited:
> Is there good reason to get a Jot and use Mjolnir 2 with great tubes as a pre-amp? Perhaps not long term but it is very tempting to check out.
> I wonder how it would compare to MJ2 alone (has anybody tried)?


 

 A good reason? _Any reason? _No. @FLTWS has compared Jot/MJ2/Rag and his thoughts (he PMd me) are worth reading, but I'll let him post them, as I assume he already has. If you want something cheap, flat, and powerful, get Jot. He calls MJ2 with LISST more fun, and with the obvious 1-2 punch of being able to roll tubes. While I continue to wonder about whether I should've gotten Raggy, I love MJ2. Pick one, you will not be disappointed in either case. I wait with baited breath for the "Jotunlyr" that combines their new super linear topology with the ability to tube roll. That schiit is going to be great.


----------



## franzdom

bosiemoncrieff said:


> A good reason? _Any reason? _No. @FLTWS has compared Jot/MJ2/Rag and his thoughts (he PMd me) are worth reading, but I'll let him post them, as I assume he already has. If you want something cheap, flat, and powerful, get Jot. He calls MJ2 with LISST more fun, and with the obvious 1-2 punch of being able to roll tubes. While I continue to wonder about whether I should've gotten Raggy, I love MJ2. Pick one, you will not be disappointed in either case. I wait with baited breath for the "Jotunlyr" that combines their new super linear topology with the ability to tube roll. That schiit is going to be great.


 
  
 I have not enjoyed SS as much as I have great tubes. I need to hear Jot & Rag for myself. 
 I appreciate the comments on comparative SS Jot/MJ2/Rag, very interesting. The specs of the Jot are very impressive.


----------



## KamijoIsMyHero

Here is my impressions on the Jotunheim after a month of ownership. My main headphones were HE-500 and PSB M4U2.
  
*Physical Appearance:* It looks like Schiit
  
 First things first, the picture of the Jotunheim in the  Schiit's Jotunheim product page is a LIE! The white LED is a thousand times brighter in real life than it is in the picture. It is so bright that I had to move the unit to my right just so the knob can act as a shield to keep the LED from blinding me. If you actually looked at the unit at the angle the Jotunheim is presented in the product page, you might start to feel nauseated even start vomiting after just a few seconds. It is that bright.
  
 Other than that, the Jotunheim looks like typical Schiit. I used to own the Magni/Modi, I had them just a week after it was released. I also have a local dealer in my area where I can check out other Schiit products. The build quality looks like it can take a beating and the 2-tone grey and silver looks looks like it can handle dust accumulation well (no color change after just a month without dusting)
  
 BTW the "N" on the Jotunheim looks weird, it looks like an "S" fallen over blackout drunk.
  
*Amplifier section:* Sounds like a $2000 unit
  
 The Jotunheim is the first product in a while (I haven't kept active in the forum for over a year and a half) that has caught my attention. Before that I haven't had a real need to upgrade from my Audio-GD Compass 2, another Amp/DAC that had a modular DAC section. The only other units that sounded better were well over $2000, not including the DACs that I was demoing on. The DAC on the Compass 2 was pretty good IMO, I was always suspected the amp section to not be on par though and I was right when I finally got the Jotunheim.
  
 The amps that I consider sounded audibly better were ones that helped my HE-500 deliver better bass response, more impact and deeper sounding. That's it. The HE-500 are perfect to my ears in terms of frequency response and only needed that extra oomph in the bass. The HE-500 lacks spaciousness but I can live without that since it didn't really bother me. Pairing the HE-500 with the Jotunheim provided the extra oomph that I wanted in the bass. The bass feels livelier and more engaging.
  
 I did notice people were reporting a bit more strident treble with the Jotunheim. I only really heard this while using the HE-500 in SE but not in Balanced. Using the HE-500 in balanced, there is tad bit more treble but not in a glaring obvious amount. The difference in trebele was quite audible going from the Compass 2 (SE only amp) to the Jotunheim in SE though ... volume matched...
 The mids are not affected in anyway going from the Compass 2 to the Jotunheim. I have nothing to say other than it keeps my Kamijo singing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
*DAC section:* Nothing special
  
 I'm sorry, I am really not with the camp that thinks a DAC will make a whole lot of difference. I just need my DAC to convert my 1s and 0s in analog form and my Compass 2 did that. The built in DAC did that as well. 
  
 However, if Schiit decides to make a Multi-Bit DAC in balanced mode that is in the Jotunheim's price range, it will have my interest. Otherwise, I will continue to try and save up for an Yggdrasil. 
  
*Conclusion: *Worth the money for an upgrade below $1000
  
 On average, Amp/DAC units costs well over $2000 - $3000 to have a audible differences in quality against units that cost around $500 - $1000. However, the Jotunheim Amp/DAC version can offer an audibly better sound and it only cost $499 ... what?!


----------



## FLTWS

bosiemoncrieff said:


> A good reason? _Any reason? _No. @FLTWS has compared Jot/MJ2/Rag and his thoughts (he PMd me) are worth reading, but I'll let him post them, as I assume he already has. If you want something cheap, flat, and powerful, get Jot. He calls MJ2 with LISST more fun, and with the obvious 1-2 punch of being able to roll tubes. While I continue to wonder about whether I should've gotten Raggy, I love MJ2. Pick one, you will not be disappointed in either case. I wait with baited breath for the "Jotunlyr" that combines their new super linear topology with the ability to tube roll. That schiit is going to be great.


 
  
 "Jotunlyr" Rolls off the tongue deliciously. LOL!
  
 I've got some outpatient hand surgery this AM so it will be a lost day or 2 for me. I'll try and figure out how to post reviews over the weekend - never done one before.


----------



## Atavax

kamijoismyhero said:


> First things first, the picture of the Jotunheim in the  Schiit's Jotunheim product page is a LIE! The white LED is a thousand times brighter in real life than it is in the picture. It is so bright that I had to move the unit to my right just so the knob can act as a shield to keep the LED from blinding me. If you actually looked at the unit at the angle the Jotunheim is presented in the product page, you might start to feel nauseated even start vomiting after just a few seconds. It is that bright.


 
 heh, my headphone plug completely blocks the view of LED when on the left. I can't even visually tells its on except for the orange glow coming from inside.


----------



## jimmers

atavax said:


> heh, my headphone plug completely blocks the view of LED when on the left. I can't even visually tells its on except for the orange glow coming from inside.


 
 The volume knob blocks mine, so I moved my head over and looked straight into the light from 2 ft away ... not bright at all


----------



## Vigrith

bavinck said:


> Jot drives the 560 just fine.


 

 Can confirm. Have 400S, 400i and 560s (latter 2 belong to my spouse), the Jotunheim handles them just fine even though they are not headphones I'm super fond of (the 400S are great, though) - then again, in my personal opinion, the only headphones that do not pair well with it are the ones that are flawed/not to my liking to begin with; it's just a very revealing and characterless amplifier, if you like the signature of the remainder of your gear then this will please you very much.


----------



## Allanmarcus

LED dimmer stickers. They are supposed to work well

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009WSJNCW

I haven't tries them yet, but I just ordered a set.


----------



## Ggroch

The dimmer stickers work great...and apparently are from a small family business which is nice.
  
 I ordered the same ones from your link in black because I was not sure i could identically match the bronze body.
  
 Looks like this (see below).  Kind of like a 3.5mm headphone port.
  
 I used just 1 sticker which cuts the brightness about in half which is perfect for me.  I can see it in the daytime but it does not blind me at night.  You can put a 2nd over it if you want to dim it more.  Very pleased.


----------



## bavinck

Electrical tape works too.


----------



## Allanmarcus

Looks like they also have silver

LightDims Silver Edition - Light Dimming LED covers / Light Dimming Sheets for Metallic, Aluminum colored Electronics and Appliances and more. Dims 80-90% of Light, in Retail Packaging. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009WT7PYO

Might match better for those that care.


----------



## Mr Rick

vigrith said:


> Can confirm. Have 400S, 400i and 560s (latter 2 belong to my spouse), the Jotunheim handles them just fine even though they are not headphones I'm super fond of (the 400S are great, though) - then again, in my personal opinion, the only headphones that do not pair well with it are the ones that are flawed/not to my liking to begin with; it's just a very revealing and characterless amplifier, if you like the signature of the remainder of your gear then this will please you very much.


 
  
 Hi-Z headphones are not the Jots forte. The Schiit Valhalla is a much better option for my 600 ohm Beyers.


----------



## MWSVette

allanmarcus said:


> Looks like they also have silver
> 
> LightDims Silver Edition - Light Dimming LED covers / Light Dimming Sheets for Metallic, Aluminum colored Electronics and Appliances and more. Dims 80-90% of Light, in Retail Packaging. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009WT7PYO
> 
> Might match better for those that care.


 
  
  
 I use the silver.  Not a perfect match to the color of the Schiit but very close...


----------



## Vigrith

mr rick said:


> Hi-Z headphones are not the Jots forte. The Schiit Valhalla is a much better option for my 600 ohm Beyers.


 
  
 Yea I can see that being the case no doubt - I own T90s (soon the Amiron Home at some point too hopefully) so no 600s for me but they do pair well with the Jotunheim. Not as well as they do with my Pathos Aurium or WA7 but still, point being I can't see it really underperforming with many headphones.


----------



## Tuneslover

mwsvette said:


> I use the silver.  Not a perfect match to the color of the Schiit but very close...



Yeah I use the silver ones too. I double applied to keep it dark.


----------



## ToTo Man

allanmarcus said:


> Looks like they also have silver
> 
> LightDims Silver Edition - Light Dimming LED covers / Light Dimming Sheets for Metallic, Aluminum colored Electronics and Appliances and more. Dims 80-90% of Light, in Retail Packaging. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009WT7PYO
> 
> Might match better for those that care.


 
 Yes, I can attest to the silvers being a good match for Schiit.


----------



## MattTCG

roscoeiii said:


> Anyone try the Jot with a HiFiMan HE-5LE or other HiFiMan planars?


 
  
 Brilliant pairing with HEX v2.


----------



## chowmein83

roscoeiii said:


> Anyone try the Jot with a HiFiMan HE-5LE or other HiFiMan planars?


 
  
 Agree with the others that have posted so far, I thought the Jotunheim did well with my HE-400i and HE1000. I think it just does well with planars in general - Jot also worked quite well with my modded T50RP.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Have people gone into detail on he6 pairing? I would assume it would be a bit shrill, certainly brighter than neutral


----------



## escalibur

Any ODAC RevB upgraders to Jotunheim?


----------



## sheldaze

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Have people gone into detail on he6 pairing? I would assume it would be a bit shrill, certainly brighter than neutral


 
 I have only personally run my HE6 on a Jot and through a friend's Cavalli Liquid Gold. The Jot was certainly brighter than the Gold. I still find the Jot enjoyable. Also the bass was actually a little deeper/stronger on the Jot - bass was also a little less controlled, but it is all about the enjoyment, not about uber-precision. If you dislike the overall sound of the Jot, which is slightly aggressive, I suspect you'll dislike it with the HE6. If you are okay with the overall unrelenting nature of the Jot, I think you should also be okay with HE6 through the Jot.
  
 I do eventually plan to try speaker amplifiers, perhaps with something like a Moon NEO 230HAD acting in the role of pre-amplifier. That should give me more of a reference perspective. As I mentioned, my perspective of how the HE6 is supposed to sound is limited.


----------



## fdhfdy

I think 





otter7 said:


> Harbeth HL5.



Your speakers are much better sounding.
Jot is 500$.its good for the asking price. It sounds a little flat compare to good speakers. But it alone is fine. I use it for bed time only.


----------



## Alchemist007

escalibur said:


> Any ODAC RevB upgraders to Jotunheim?


 

 Yep, an improvement in every way for my LCD-3F.


----------



## franzdom

alchemist007 said:


> Yep, an improvement in every way for my LCD-3F.


 
  
 My favorite HP.
  
 Ok that pushed me over the edge. Jot ordered.
  
 I WILL be trying the MJ2 > Jot and comparing to MJ2 only BTW. I may be wrong but it seems like it may be a worthwhile combination.
 If not, I will have a killer backup which unfortunately I found out last night that it's always good to have a backup.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

franzdom said:


> My favorite HP.
> 
> Ok that pushed me over the edge. Jot ordered.
> 
> ...


 

 I'm still scratching my head about this one. MJ2 is a more powerful amp than Jot. The point of a preamp is to color the sound in ways that the main amp can't, ala Freia and Vidar or MJ2 and Ragnarok. You wouldn't use the WA-5 as a preamp for asgard or Liquid Glass as a preamp for magni. 
  
 Try your experiment, by all means, but I don't see the point.


----------



## franzdom

I didn't buy the MJ2 primarily for power I bought it for tube preamp and balanced. Jot is a very clean amp, perhaps cleaner than the amp section on MJ2?
  
 EDIT: also some have proclaimed the Jot to be the best sounding SS amp made by Schiit. I would love a Rag but I am not sure I have room for it on my desk. I am also not convinced it would sound better than my MJ2 or better than MJ2>Jot. 
  
 Bonus: my Mjolnir became defective last night and I was left with no way to listen to headphones through my Yggy so I will relax with the knowledge that if it happens again I have a Jot as a backup.


----------



## franzdom

bump for reading of edits


----------



## Tuneslover

bosiemoncrieff said:


> The point of a preamp is to color the sound in ways that the main amp can't, ala Freia and Vidar or MJ2 and Ragnarok. You wouldn't use the WA-5 as a preamp for asgard or Liquid Glass as a preamp for magni.



Your post peaked my curiosity about using one amp, as a preamp, into another amp in order to create a different sounding amp. I have the tube hybrid Vali2 and am waiting for my Jotunheim to arrive. It might be interesting to experiment by putting the V2 between my Bimby (or Mimby) and the Jot. It could be an interesting comparison against the straight Jotunheim.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

tuneslover said:


> Your post peaked my curiosity about using one amp, as a preamp, into another amp in order to create a different sounding amp. I have the tube hybrid Vali2 and am waiting for my Jotunheim to arrive. It might be interesting to experiment by putting the V2 between my Bimby (or Mimby) and the Jot. It could be an interesting comparison against the straight Jotunheim.




Yes. This is how I understand preamp situations to work. Add a sys to switch ur schiit on demand


----------



## Tuneslover

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Yes. This is how I understand preamp situations to work. Add a sys to switch ur schiit on demand


 
 Yet another stupendous idea...and I do have a SYS.  Fun times ahead!


----------



## poocaso

tuneslover said:


> Your post peaked my curiosity about using one amp, as a preamp, into another amp in order to create a different sounding amp. I have the tube hybrid Vali2 and am waiting for my Jotunheim to arrive. It might be interesting to experiment by putting the V2 between my Bimby (or Mimby) and the Jot. It could be an interesting comparison against the straight Jotunheim.


 
 This same idea dawned on me recently and I fed the Jot from my Vali 2! I didn't notice a huge amount of difference between that and straight Jot; maybe because it's a tube hybrid? From that same line of thinking, I was reminded of ifi's iTube:
  
http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/micro-itube/
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/700109/review-ifi-audio-itube-tube-magic-for-all-systems


----------



## vilhelm44

Has anyone tried the Jot with Beyer T5P.2 or T1.2? Is it an overly bright experience?


----------



## Ancipital

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Have people gone into detail on he6 pairing? I would assume it would be a bit shrill, certainly brighter than neutral


 
  
 I tried to, while having a bit of a session of trying various headphones on my Jot at a dealer*. Despite listing HE-6 as being in stock, the owner looked deeply confused when I even asked about it, and denied its existence, so I was foiled; sorry.
  
 I've read reasonably trustworthy accounts elsewhere that didn't find it the most thrilling pairing, however.
  
  
  
 * I wasn't wasting time, I did seriously intend to walk away with a new pair, but there was something of a disconnect between what was listed on the website, on demo in the shop, and in stock for sale. None of the headphones that I enjoyed were available, most of the ones I didn't care for we plentiful.


----------



## TeskR

How is the DAC module compared to a Schiit Modi (v1)?
  
 Currently have Modi > Lyr, but looking to make my life simpler with a SS amp, worth getting the DAC module and cutting the Modi out of the loop also?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

teskr said:


> How is the DAC module compared to a Schiit Modi (v1)?
> 
> Currently have Modi > Lyr, but looking to make my life simpler with a SS amp, worth getting the DAC module and cutting the Modi out of the loop also?


 

 i mean the cheapest way to get a ss amp is to buy LISST.


----------



## TeskR

bosiemoncrieff said:


> i mean the cheapest way to get a ss amp is to buy LISST.


 

 Yeah, however, the Lyr is quite noisy when I use my PM-3, and the LISST tubes are apparently noisier than normal tubes in the original Lyr so they are not really an option unfortunately.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

teskr said:


> Yeah, however, the Lyr is quite noisy when I use my PM-3, and the LISST tubes are apparently noisier than normal tubes in the original Lyr so they are not really an option unfortunately.




I've always found Lyr the weakest performer in the lineup relative to price. At 349, maybe. At 449, no.


----------



## Makiah S

Sadly, I don't wish to read through 141 pages 
  
 but can any one link me to where Jason comments on the Jotunheim, for the LONGEST time the guys at Schiit took a very strong stand against integrated dac/amps [like for ever] so it's odd to see one with their name on it [though tbh it's priced nicely an should bolster sales for them]
  
 I'm just curious to see how they came to this product! If some one has a link to a Blog Entry that'd be awesome


----------



## TeskR

mshenay said:


> Sadly, I don't wish to read through 141 pages
> 
> but can any one link me to where Jason comments on the Jotunheim, for the LONGEST time the guys at Schiit took a very strong stand against integrated dac/amps [like for ever] so it's odd to see one with their name on it [though tbh it's priced nicely an should bolster sales for them]
> 
> I'm just curious to see how they came to this product! If some one has a link to a Blog Entry that'd be awesome


 
  
 If you look at the FAQ section on the product page on Schiit's website they have a kind of explanation there.


----------



## Vigrith

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I've always found Lyr the weakest performer in the lineup relative to price. At 349, maybe. At 449, no.


 
  
 I've never auditioned the Lyr so I will refrain from commenting on its priceerformance ratio but that is the only amplifier in their lineup (and the Rag, but that one's out of question regardless as my Devialet Phantoms are self-sufficient) that I've never really considered purchasing.
  
 Especially now with the Jotunheim out and about the Lyr's appeal has probably diminished - tube fanatics such as myself are most likely going to be more drawn to either the cheaper Valhalla 2 or to the more expensive and MJ2 which is even more of a jack of all trades whilst the ones looking for a very powerful device at around the $400-500 mark may be tempted to just opt for the Jotun due to its extreme versatility/compactness.


----------



## franzdom

Jot ordered Friday, shipped today


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Could you make an OTL pivot point amp?


----------



## Mirakoolz

can both the BAL and UNBAL preouts be driven at the same time?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

mirakoolz said:


> can both the BAL and UNBAL preouts be driven at the same time?


 
 yes.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Could you make an OTL pivot point amp?


 
  
 Not without antimatter (you'd need "p-channel" tubes, which would use positrons.)
  
 Plus, balanced OTL is not as great of an idea as you might think. To start with, it doubles the output impedance, which OTLs are already challenged by. It also doubles the need for matched tubes, doubles heater current, doubles parts...eek.


----------



## jimmers

jason stoddard said:


> Not without antimatter (you'd need "p-channel" tubes, which would use positrons.)


 
 Because you can't have holes in a vacuum


----------



## Ancipital

jason stoddard said:


> Not without antimatter (you'd need "p-channel" tubes, which would use positrons.)


 
  
 Come on, that's defeatist talk!


----------



## judmarc

jimmers said:


> Because you can't have holes in a vacuum


 

 Yeah, was just thinking the same thing - electron "holes" are solid state....


----------



## Mirakoolz

Does anyone know whether the DAC module is either;
 - Fully powered by USB Power, or
 - Digital stage powered USB, Analog Stage powered by JOT
 - Entire DAC module powered by JOT?
  
 from watching a review on youtube, the Dac stays powered even when the JOT is powered off - evident by the computer not throwing any fits when shutting the JOT off
  
 Thanks


----------



## Limu Shirin

hey everyone, I can find the Dac specs anywhere.
 Would someone please help me?


----------



## Ancipital

From the product page:
  
 Optional Dual AK4490 DAC:
 USB Input Receiver: C-Media CM6631A
 D/A Conversion IC: AK4490 x 2
 Analog Output: fully differential, passive summing and passive filtering
 Frequency Response: 20Hz-20KHz, +/-0.1dB, 2-100kHz, -3dB
 Maximum Output: 2.0V RMS
 THD: <0.0015%, 20Hz-20KHz, full scale
 IMD: <0.002%, CCIR
 S/N: >106dB, referenced to 2V RMS, unweighted


----------



## Limu Shirin

ancipital said:


> From the product page:
> 
> Optional Dual AK4490 DAC:
> USB Input Receiver: C-Media CM6631A
> ...


 

 Thanks, but I can't find the Input and output capability, I mean 16-bit 24 or 32?


----------



## briman1000

Even though it says they can take 5-7 days to ship I ordered at 11pm and it shipped the next morning. Good turnaround for any online business. Will be delivered today. Went for the dac/amp.


----------



## briman1000

I am starting to think I maybe should have purchased the modi multibit Asgard 2 combo for the same price though. I went for simplicity and fewer wires on my desk. Also hopefully less heat. Will pair with Sennheiser hd700. Will let you know what I think.


----------



## Ancipital

limu shirin said:


> Thanks, but I can't find the Input and output capability, I mean 16-bit 24 or 32?


 
  
 Ooh, not a clue there, sorry. Why not drop Schiit a line?


----------



## Limu Shirin

I


ancipital said:


> Ooh, not a clue there, sorry. Why not drop Schiit a line?


 

 Just did, I wonder why so many people who buy this product, just never asked about those specs...
 maybe thay all use standalone dacs with Jotunheim or know everything from the provided specs even the Bit-rate
 capability


----------



## Ancipital

limu shirin said:


> I
> 
> Just did, I wonder why so many people who buy this product, just never asked about those specs...
> maybe thay all use standalone dacs with Jotunheim or know everything from the provided specs even the Bit-rate
> capability


 
  
 ..or maybe they're sensible, and just feed it Red Book. However, yes, I suspect that a lot of people use a Mimby or similar, as it's a hell of a combo.
  
 One slight gotcha that I do know about, however, is that the onboard DAC is fairly bad at rejecting electrical noise down the USB cable. If you're using a Macbook or similarly noisy computer, be mentally prepared to have to grab a Schiit Wyrd or somesuch, to give you a clean VBUS.


----------



## gmahler2u

briman1000 said:


> Even though it says they can take 5-7 days to ship I ordered at 11pm and it shipped the next morning. Good turnaround for any online business. Will be delivered today. Went for the dac/amp.




Good choice!! You'll love it!


----------



## Limu Shirin

Just got the word from Schiit, Maximum 24/192


----------



## navar

Those of you that own schiit as amps, do you leave them on 24/7? Any issues related to doing so?


----------



## Alchemist007

A higher electric bill.


----------



## FLTWS

No, only Yggy.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

One of the main reasons I'm not excited about electrostatics, the BHSE's electric bill...


----------



## Alchemist007

I just turn mine off, no point being wasteful.


----------



## navar

I was wondering... thank you.


----------



## KamijoIsMyHero

It lights up my whole bedroom at night, I need to turn it off to sleep properly


----------



## Jiggybutt

navar said:


> Those of you that own schiit as amps, do you leave them on 24/7? Any issues related to doing so?


 
 It says in the papers you get with it that it's no problem leaving it on. I haven't turned mine off since I plugged it in for the first time. No worries here. Have a Modi on top of it and it doesn't get too hot.


----------



## navar

I was confident you could leave it on, but I was curious what owners were actually doing in the real world. Thanks for the info.


----------



## franzdom

I turn my DAC to the wall and leave it on.
 The amp I have on a smart plug so it's only on when I am home and awake.


----------



## MWSVette

I leave mine on 24/7.
  
 Covered the LED with these;
  
 https://www.amazon.com/LightDims-Silver-Electronics-Appliances-Packaging/dp/B009WT7PYO/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1477419934&sr=8-2&keywords=light+dims+silver
  
 They are a fairly close match to the Schiit silver...


----------



## JLoud

navar said:


> Those of you that own schiit as amps, do you leave them on 24/7? Any issues related to doing so?


 
 The Asgard 2 just gets too hot to leave on.  The Magni 2 is warm but not too bad.  The Jot is barely warm when left on.  I've had mine since the week it came out.  Haven't turned it off yet.  Never gets more than barely warm at idle.  Contacted Schiit and they said it was fine to leave it on all the time, maybe even recommended.


----------



## Shure or bust

Should i sell my burson conductor and chord 2qute for this lol


----------



## Ancipital

navar said:


> Those of you that own schiit as amps, do you leave them on 24/7? Any issues related to doing so?


 
  
 The Jot doesn't care. It just gets slightly tepid to the touch. Other amps vary in temp- you can expect Rag to get hot, for example. However, the solid state amps don't really care. The tube amps, obviously, should be switched off if you're not going to listen for a bit, as you are using up lifetime of the tubes.


----------



## blasjw

> Orignally Posted by *Shure or bust*
> Should i sell my burson conductor and chord 2qute for this lol


 
 Yes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDvGNMUwOkI


----------



## Delayeed

blasjw said:


> Yes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDvGNMUwOkI


 
 Sigh Zreviews... This guys a joke as a reviewer never talking about audio quality in his reviews and always the newest thing is "the best ever!" Don't trust this guy...


----------



## blasjw

delayeed said:


> Sigh Zreviews... This guys a joke as a reviewer never talking about audio quality in his reviews and always the newest thing is "the best ever!" Don't trust this guy...


 
 I've actually found his opinions generally in-line with my own so I have a fair amount of trust in what he says.


----------



## acguitar84

blasjw said:


> I've actually found his opinions generally in-line with my own so I have a fair amount of trust in what he says.


 
 It seems like he really liked the Jot, I skimmed through a lot of the review though.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

delayeed said:


> Sigh Zreviews... This guys a joke as a reviewer never talking about audio quality in his reviews and always the newest thing is "the best ever!" Don't trust this guy...


 
  
  


blasjw said:


> I've actually found his opinions generally in-line with my own so I have a fair amount of trust in what he says.


 

 I get seasick watching them. The man-cave could be a bit tidier, and the rambling a little more contained, as well.


----------



## blasjw

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I get seasick watching them. The man-cave could be a bit tidier, and the rambling a little more contained, as well.


 
 Interesting.  I find him quite amusing myself like "#staxbro" or "screw you Philips".  Sadly, my man cave looks about as tidy as his.


----------



## bavinck

Man caves are not supposed to be tidy, it's like a law or something


----------



## earnmyturns

navar said:


> Those of you that own schiit as amps, do you leave them on 24/7? Any issues related to doing so?


 
 I've left an Asgard 2 and now a Jotunheim on 24/7, except when I travel for extended periods. No problems.


----------



## earnmyturns

briman1000 said:


> I am starting to think I maybe should have purchased the modi multibit Asgard 2 combo for the same price though. I went for simplicity and fewer wires on my desk. Also hopefully less heat. Will pair with Sennheiser hd700. Will let you know what I think.


 
 Jotunheim balanced is a definite win over Asgard 2.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

earnmyturns said:


> Jotunheim balanced is a definite win over Asgard 2.


 

 i mean, yes, but you might as well try to plug the HD700 into the new HE-1 electrostatic amp for all the difference it will make—no amp can fix a bad pair of cans, just as no tailor can lose those 50 pounds to fit you into those slacks with the 34 waist.


----------



## BarDash

bosiemoncrieff said:


> i mean, yes, but you might as well try to plug the HD700 into the new HE-1 electrostatic amp for all the difference it will make—no amp can fix a bad pair of cans, just as no tailor can lose those 50 pounds to fit you into those slacks with the 34 waist.


 

 I actually enjoy my " bad pair of cans" balanced with my Opus 1. It's a nice portable setup that doesn't break the bank IMO regardless of your comments.


----------



## KLJTech

I leave my Gungnir and Asgard 2 on 24/7 in my office and have never had any issues. I leave all the components in my main system on all the time too, I've never had any issues. 
  
 I no longer like to change/upgrade my audio gear all the time (I did that for more than two decades) as I'd much prefer to put a system together and then just get back to buying and enjoying more MUSIC. Unfortunately or maybe fortunately, it sounds like I now need to purchase the Jotunheim, not only for the sound quality, but it would also allow me to use my Gungnir via its balanced outputs into the Jotunheim and then balanced/XLR out to my speaker amp. Plus, I would then be able to run my NightHawks from the Jotunheim's balanced out...would appear that it gives me several advantages over the Asgard 2, that I still very much love and plan on keeping.


----------



## Mirakoolz

kljtech said:


> I no longer like to change/upgrade my audio gear all the time (I did that for more than two decades) as I'd much prefer to put a system together and then just get back to buying and enjoying more MUSIC. Unfortunately or maybe fortunately, it sounds like I now need to purchase the Jotunheim, not only for the sound quality, but it would also allow me to use my Gungnir via its balanced outputs into the Jotunheim and then balanced/XLR out to my speaker amp. Plus, I would then be able to run my NightHawks from the Jotunheim's balanced out...would appear that it gives me several advantages over the Asgard 2, that I still very much love and plan on keeping.


 
 i just discovered schiits upcomming 2-channel gear, especially the balanced preamp!


----------



## Flynehome

I've had my Jotunheim for a few weeks and it's been a great upgrade for me.  I previously had a Fiio E9 amp that was connected to my iMac via a 3.5mm cable.  Now I have the Jotunheim (mine has the DAC) connected to my iMac via a USB.  The clarity and separation is a really nice upgrade from what I was using.  
 I primarily use Hifiman HE400s and sometimes use a pair of Koss Pro 4AA's.  Both of these headphones have really come alive with the Jotunheim.  The Koss really benefit from the additional power the Jotunheim provides.  I don't know how much of the improvement is due to the Jotunheim DAC or if it's the better amp or a combination of the two.  But in any case I'm enjoying the net result!
  
 http://imgur.com/Le0M0ez


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

flynehome said:


> I've had my Jotunheim for a few weeks and it's been a great upgrade for me.  I previously had a Fiio E9 amp that was connected to my iMac via a 3.5mm cable.  Now I have the Jotunheim (mine has the DAC) connected to my iMac via a USB.  The clarity and separation is a really nice upgrade from what I was using.
> I primarily use Hifiman HE400s and sometimes use a pair of Koss Pro 4AA's.  Both of these headphones have really come alive with the Jotunheim.  The Koss really benefit from the additional power the Jotunheim provides.  I don't know how much of the improvement is due to the Jotunheim DAC or if it's the better amp or a combination of the two.  But in any case I'm enjoying the net result!
> 
> http://imgur.com/Le0M0ez


 

 Probably both, but it's the amp that is the game-changer. Sounds like a superb mid-fi rig all the way around.


----------



## ZekeAdebayo

Afternoon everyone! I was curious if anyone here with a Jotunheim has used them with their Hifiman He-560 or have even owned a Gustard H10 (amp) or Gustard Dac X12 (dac) to be able to make a assessment/comparison. I'm planning to sell my Gustard H10 and Dac X12 to buy this and I want to be sure that I'm making a proper switch. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Limu Shirin

Here's the review from Z reviews:
 https://youtu.be/vDvGNMUwOkI


----------



## showme99

limu shirin said:


> Here's the review from Z reviews:
> https://youtu.be/vDvGNMUwOkI


 
 I know that some folks have very strong feelings about the validity of Z-reviews.  But if nothing else, his videos are great entertainment.  His little quips and one-liners are absolutely hilarious.  Several of his reviews have literally had me laughing out loud (well after the video was over)!


----------



## Mirakoolz

just picked up the jot with dac.
 notice the volume position is much higher compared to my other amps.
 perhaps the knob is linear throughout the whole range rather than just the first half as it is with my other gear
  
 i dont notice any sound improvements personally but i haven't listened critically.
 nothing jumped at me immediately, which to me, means its the same. its doing its job


----------



## Alchemist007

mirakoolz said:


> just picked up the jot with dac.
> notice the volume position is much higher compared to my other amps.
> perhaps the knob is linear throughout the whole range rather than just the first half as it is with my other gear
> 
> ...


 
  
 Compared to what exactly?


----------



## Limu Shirin

showme99 said:


> I know that some folks have very strong feelings about the validity of Z-reviews.  But if nothing else, his videos are great entertainment.  His little quips and one-liners are absolutely hilarious.  Several of his reviews have literally had me laughing out loud (well after the video was over)!


 

 To me, he is one the few legit "not-paid" reviewers. He is not perfect, but at the very least, he's got
 some sound demos to back his impressions. Currawong's reviews are also my favorite, since they're "neutral", without any
 "fanboyism".


----------



## SearchOfSub

mirakoolz said:


> just picked up the jot with dac.
> notice the volume position is much higher compared to my other amps.
> perhaps the knob is linear throughout the whole range rather than just the first half as it is with my other gear
> 
> ...





The moment I read someone said "upfront in your face sound" I looked elsewhere. We all know all resolutions higher up the chain, the more relaxing listening are.


----------



## franzdom

Just loving my new Jot...amazing!


----------



## ToddRaymond

franzdom said:


> Just loving my new Jot...amazing!


 

 Kweschun:  When using the Mjolnir 2 in front of your Jot, whereabouts have you set the volume dial on your Mjolnir?  Thanks!
  
 EDIT:  (Or, do you leave your Jot cranked all the way up, and control the volume with the Mjolnir alone?  I suppose this would make more sense, with the Jot being even quieter....)


----------



## acguitar84

franzdom said:


> Just loving my new Jot...amazing!


 
 Are you running your Yggy into it? They make an amazing pair.


----------



## franzdom

acguitar84 said:


> Are you running your Yggy into it? They make an amazing pair.


 
  
 Yes, with a twist, using Mjolnir 2 as a preamp between them. Heavenly!


----------



## franzdom

turdski said:


> Kweschun:  When using the Mjolnir 2 in front of your Jot, whereabouts have you set the volume dial on your Mjolnir?  Thanks!
> 
> EDIT:  (Or, do you leave your Jot cranked all the way up, and control the volume with the Mjolnir alone?  I suppose this would make more sense, with the Jot being even quieter....)


 
  
 I can't set the volume to max on the Jot even with both on low gain because it leave the volume on the MJ2 at a very low setting indeed. So, they are both about midrange.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

acguitar84 said:


> Are you running your Yggy into it? They make an amazing pair.




Go on...


----------



## navar

limu shirin said:


> To me, he is one the few legit "not-paid" reviewers. He is not perfect, but at the very least, he's got
> some sound demos to back his impressions. Currawong's reviews are also my favorite, since they're "neutral", without any
> "fanboyism".


 

 I agree.  In the end, it's an opinion.


----------



## chenszhanx

navar said:


> Those of you that own schiit as amps, do you leave them on 24/7? Any issues related to doing so?


 
 No really issue.
 But if DAC connected to working PC,it never goes to idle.
 And jotunteim gets really hot.


----------



## KG Jag

chenszhanx said:


> navar said:
> 
> 
> > Those of you that own schiit as amps, do you leave them on 24/7? Any issues related to doing so?
> ...


 
  
 Not as hot as other Schiit.
  
 FYI--Cavalli recommends that you not leave the Liquid Gold (solid state) on for extended periods when it is not being used (e.g. over the weekend), as it will shorten the life of its parts.


----------



## chenszhanx

kg jag said:


> Not as hot as other Schiit.
> 
> FYI--Cavalli recommends that you not leave the Liquid Gold (solid state) on for extended periods when it is not being used (e.g. over the weekend), as it will shorten the life of its parts.


 
  
 What confused me is the heat is really different whether pc connected or not.(muted in windows and left overnight compared with pc shutdown)
 But when I asked Schiit about this they said that is power consumption is always the same once Jotunheim powered.


----------



## Mirakoolz

alchemist007 said:


> Compared to what exactly?


 
  
 Fiio E7. Then E09K with SMSL Sanskrit Dac. low end modest gear but has served me well over many years


----------



## Limu Shirin

franzdom said:


> I can't set the volume to max on the Jot even with both on low gain because it leave the volume on the MJ2 at a very low setting indeed. So, they are both about midrange.


 

 Hey Franz, have you tried your Jotunheim with sensetive headphones/ IEMs?
 any noise floor/ background hissing?


----------



## tunes

Just got my Mobi:Jot combo. 

Is it ok to put the Mobi on top of the JOT??

Any issues with heating the Mobi up from the Jot??

What is the power consumption of both left on 24/7?

More than a 100 watt light bulb?


----------



## Mirakoolz

another member answered a similar question i had
 25watts but not sure what the idle power rating is
  
 my jot gets warm, but for some reason earlier today it was unusally hotter. was powered on with no music playing through the inbuilt dac. hmmmm


----------



## tunes

Just to be clear, connect USB from Mabookpro to MOBI IN to analogue SE IN to JOT, from balanced out to HE1000?

What analoge RCA cable is best bank for buck. Need shortest one as the MOBI sits on top of JOT right??


----------



## Allanmarcus

tunes said:


> Just to be clear, connect USB from Mabookpro to MOBI IN to analogue SE IN to JOT, from balanced out to HE1000?
> 
> What analoge RCA cable is best bank for buck. Need shortest one as the MOBI sits on top of JOT right??


 
  
 clearly these are. Seriously. Anything else and you wasting money. Don't be fooled by the low price.
  
 http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021814&p_id=5346&seq=1&format=2


----------



## Tuneslover

mirakoolz said:


> another member answered a similar question i had
> 25watts but not sure what the idle power rating is
> 
> my jot gets warm, but for some reason earlier today it was unusally hotter. was powered on with no music playing through the inbuilt dac. hmmmm




Mine has been on for 40+ hours straight and it's barely warm to the touch.


----------



## Tomasz2D

tunes said:


> Any issues with heating the Mobi up from the Jot??


 
 I think this is vice versa and that's Mobi that will heat Jot.


----------



## gmahler2u

limu shirin said:


> Hey Franz, have you tried your Jotunheim with sensetive headphones/ IEMs?
> any noise floor/ background hissing?


 
 I tried with my Roxanne, No background noise.  Absolute perfection.


----------



## bavinck

allanmarcus said:


> clearly these are. Seriously. Anything else and you wasting money. Don't be fooled by the low price.
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021814&p_id=5346&seq=1&format=2




I Use Those Cables Too


----------



## Limu Shirin

gmahler2u said:


> I tried with my Roxanne, No background noise.  Absolute perfection.


 

 Wow and thanks. It's nice to see such a powerful amp does good with sensetive IEMs/cans.


----------



## cedstrom

Jotunheim + bal. DAC compared to Dragonfly Red?
  
 On LCD-2F balanced.


----------



## Tuneslover

I received my Jotunheim on Thursday and have had it running since then.  I must say it looks very slick stacked on top of my Bimby as the footprint is perfectly matched dimension wise.  Straight out of the box it sounded very bassy and the highs sounded quite restrained, not exactly what I was expecting.  I suspect that after a bit of warm up things would settle in. 
 ,,,  
 This amp clearly has authority and character that my Magni2U certainly doesn't exhibit.  I started off with the HD650 using my new balanced cable and I wasn't thrilled.  The highs were recessed and dull.  Hoping that my brain needed to adjust to this cable I continued listening.  I did enjoy the wider soundscape, or perhaps better channel separation but I just wasn't happy with this dark sounding cable.  After a while I switched back to the stock SE cable and voila, there was that familiar wonderful HD650 sound I love.  But it sounded a bit different somehow, but good.  It sounded as though the Jot was clearly leading the dance between it and the 650's.  I guess this is what scaling sounds like.
  
 Next I switched to my HE500's (SE, stock cable) and again there was that familiar sounding headphone but it too was being elevated to new heights in sound.  As with the HD650's the high frequencies sounded a bit tame as compared with my Lake People G109S.
  
 Leaving the 500's plugged into the SE output, I decided to re-connect the balanced cable back onto the 650's plugged it into the Balanced output on the Jot.  I headed to bed for the evening letting both headphones play away all night.
  
 I didn't have much of an opportunity to listen the following day but today I re-visited this rig.  It seems that letting the system run for 40+ hours has allowed the Jot to settle in because the high frequencies appeared to be revealing more detail than I recall from my initial listening session.  That balanced cable sounded a bit clearer but still too muffled for my liking.  Revisiting the SE outputs confirmed to me that both the 650 and 500 never sounded better.  This amp has authority and class bringing out the best in these headphones.
  
 I use my HD598SE's and Beyerdynamics DT1350's in my bedroom system along with a Modi MB and Lake People G109S amp.  This setup sounds sublime and I am very familiar how these cans sound with this rig.  I gave both headphones an audition on the Jotunheim and I was blown away how good both of these headphones sounded.  I guess I must have a defective pair of 598SE's because my set have never had an issue with producing sufficient bass.  Likewise with the Jot they were producing new levels of tight plentiful bass.
  
 Since I really like the sound of the stock 650 cable, I'm going to see about getting another one and having it terminated with a 4 pin XLR.  I have a balanced cable on order for the HE500 and am hoping for a more satisfying outcome.  On a positive note, I decided to use this dark sounding HD650 balanced cable on my 45 year old HD414's (2,000 ohm impedance) and I love how these antiques sound.  The 414's always had a bright, Grado like, sound with very little bass but this balanced cable has tamed the uber bright high frequencies nicely and also given the bottom end some kick.
  
 I decided to do a quick comparison with my Lake People G109S and found that both amps have similar traits with respect to power but the Jotunheim definitely introduces a flavour of sound that just isn't evident with the G109S.  The LP amp is notoriously neutral and simply amplifies the source to your headphones.  The Jot doesn't sound as detailed (yet?) as the LP but one thing is clear, both of these amps are fantastic.


----------



## Mirakoolz

tuneslover said:


> Mine has been on for 40+ hours straight and it's barely warm to the touch.


 

 oh thats interesting
 mines always warm to the touch but not hot. i wouldnt rest my scrotum on it for money
 ambient temps here have been around 20-24 C (australia)


----------



## cedstrom

cedstrom said:


> Jotunheim + bal. DAC compared to Dragonfly Red?
> 
> On LCD-2F balanced.




Or Jotunheim vs. 02 ODAC?


----------



## briman1000

yeah, after about an hour of use mine is pretty warm to the touch. I didn't really have anything high end to compare to, but it sounds amazing. Much fuller tighter bass and sound stage and separation are much improved. Very noticeable.


----------



## R2RDAC

Hi,
  
 I have a Lyr 2 and the HD 700. I am considering changing to a balanced system Has anybody tested the Jot with balanced and SE in direct comparison? Is there really a big differnence compared to unbalanced HP?


----------



## MWSVette

r2rdac said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have a Lyr 2 and the HD 700. I am considering changing to a balanced system Has anybody tested the Jot with balanced and SE in direct comparison? Is there really a big differnence compared to unbalanced HP?


 
 I have the Lyr and jot and HD700's with both balanced and single ended cables.  To me there is a very subtle but positive change when changing from BAL to SE.  
  
 I find more compare between SE with the Lyr and SE on the Jot than I do between SE and BAL on the JOt alone.
  
 Of course YMMV, IMHO, etc etc etc...


----------



## R2RDAC

mwsvette said:


> I have the Lyr and jot and HD700's with both balanced and single ended cables.  To me there is a very subtle but positive change when changing from BAL to SE.
> 
> I find more compare between SE with the Lyr and SE on the Jot than I do between SE and BAL on the JOt alone.
> 
> Of course YMMV, IMHO, etc etc etc...


 

 You think the Jot ist better than the Lyr? Which tubes are you using?


----------



## Vigrith

cedstrom said:


> Or Jotunheim vs. 02 ODAC?


 
  
 To be honest if you're deciding between the Jotunheim's built in balanced DAC module and *insert x $100~ DAC here* then I don't think you should bother giving it much thought - you'll be hard pressed to find an option that comes close for the money, it's also a waste of space to look for an equivalent external component if you can just get the built in. Just my opinion of course but the module sounds great and is balanced, I hated the ODAC when I had it and the dragonfly's DAC doesn't compare either unless you actually want the portability.


----------



## MWSVette

r2rdac said:


> You think the Jot ist better than the Lyr? Which tubes are you using?


 
 I like both for different reasons.  I would not say one is better than the other.
  
 As far as tubes it would probably be easier to look at my profile.  I have a few...


----------



## franzdom

Strangely enough listening to the Jot with the MJ2 as a preamp The former is barely warm in the latter is roasting.


----------



## R2RDAC

mwsvette said:


> I like both for different reasons.
> 
> As far as tubes it would probably be easier to look at my profile.  I have a few...


 

 Ok you have indeed.
 Did you tried to use the Lyr as a preamp for the Jot? I seems to work fine with the Mjolnir.


----------



## MWSVette

r2rdac said:


> Ok you have indeed.
> Did you tried to use the Lyr as a preamp for the Jot? I seems to work fine with the Mjolnir.


 
 Actually I have not.  I may play around with that on my next days off.  
  
 I currently have my system setup running 2 DACs, 4 amps and a variety of digital and analog inputs.  This allows me to switch back and forth between any piece of equipment.  To use the Lyr as a preamp will require some interconnect changes to my current setup.  When I have a chance to give it a try I will let you know my impressions.
  
 With the right tubes I would imagine the Lyr could warm the sound signature of the Jot...


----------



## R2RDAC

mwsvette said:


> Actually I have not.  I may play around with that on my next days off.
> 
> I currently have my system setup running 2 DACs, 4 amps and a variety of digital and analog inputs.  This allows me to switch back and forth between any piece of equipment.  To use the Lyr as a preamp will require some interconnect changes to my current setup.  When I have a chance to give it a try I will let you know my impressions.
> 
> With the right tubes I would imagine the Lyr could warm the sound signature of the Jot...


 

 It would be great to hear about the experiment.
 Thank you!


----------



## cedstrom

vigrith said:


> To be honest if you're deciding between the Jotunheim's built in balanced DAC module and *insert x $100~ DAC here* then I don't think you should bother giving it much thought - you'll be hard pressed to find an option that comes close for the money, it's also a waste of space to look for an equivalent external component if you can just get the built in. Just my opinion of course but the module sounds great and is balanced, I hated the ODAC when I had it and the dragonfly's DAC doesn't compare either unless you actually want the portability.




I had the O2 ODAC, but I sold it because my Dragonfly Red was just as good, which I use with my phone. So currently I use it for my stationary setup as well, but I am thinking that I should perhaps buy the Jotunheim. But I want to know if the Jotunheim really outperforms the Dragonfly Red, and by How much. 

Using Audeze LCD-2F.


----------



## Vigrith

cedstrom said:


> I had the O2 ODAC, but I sold it because my Dragonfly Red was just as good, which I use with my phone. So currently I use it for my stationary setup as well, but I am thinking that I should perhaps buy the Jotunheim. But I want to know if the Jotunheim really outperforms the Dragonfly Red, and by How much.
> 
> Using Audeze LCD-2F.


 
  
 I figured you were talking about DACs exclusively - if you mean the Jotunheim with DAC module as an amp+dac combo vs the dragonfly then in my opinion there is absolutely no contest but YMMV. The difference in power and prowess is abysmal to my ears, granted I only auditioned the dragonfly for a few songs but I also own latest rev LCD-2s and they sound great with the Jotun.


----------



## watchnerd

johnbal said:


> All other Schiit amps with pre outs will disable the pre outs when a headphone cable is plugged in.


 
  
 This is completely incorrect.
  
 For instance, if I plug phones into my Mjolnir 2, the pre-outs stay active.


----------



## cthomas

Hey guys, I'm considering the Jot for my HD650. I've heard that this combo through a balanced cable sounds incredible but just have a couple of questions...

Firstly I currently own a Sony UDA-1 which I like as a DAC but I think the amp section is a bit on the weak side. The only other amp/DAC I've owned to compare it to would be a Sony PHA-3 which in balanced mode with my SE846 sounded a lot better than the UDA-1. As these 2 amp/DACs are the only 2 I've heard how much of an upgrade would the Jot be for my HD650? Are we talking vastly different or subtle differences?

And second, would it be worth it to get the amp only with a multibit Modi? I'm not sure if I want to spend that much more for this combo especially if I can possibly upgrade the DAC in the Jot later. And is it still a balanced connection using RCA's to connect a Modi?

Also, do you think Schiit are likely to release a multibit DAC module for the Jot, if so what do you think the price might be?

Thanks in advance for any help, I'm a bit of a noob with these things and I'm in Australia where this Schiit costs more than in the US. Cheers.


----------



## Allanmarcus

cthomas said:


> Hey guys, I'm considering the Jot for my HD650. I've heard that this combo through a balanced cable sounds incredible but just have a couple of questions...
> 
> Firstly I currently own a Sony UDA-1 which I like as a DAC but I think the amp section is a bit on the weak side. The only other amp/DAC I've owned to compare it to would be a Sony PHA-3 which in balanced mode with my SE846 sounded a lot better than the UDA-1. As these 2 amp/DACs are the only 2 I've heard how much of an upgrade would the Jot be for my HD650? Are we talking vastly different or subtle differences?
> 
> ...




I just got a mimby and jot and I have a UDA-1. Unless you compare the DACs side by side and A/B them, the UDA-1 is pretty good. The modi it maybe possibly a little better for jazz, but pretty indistinguishable for rock unless you have pretty damn good well trained ears. The Jodie is a much more powerful Amp. I still have a lot of listening to do, but I would not sell the UDA-1 short. There's a lot of hype and kool-aid in audiophelia that can easily suck away money and time and simple enjoyment. 

If you need a speaker amp, keep the UDA-1 and use it as a DAC and use the Jodie for headphones. If you don't need a speaker amp, the jot mimby is excellent.


----------



## cthomas

allanmarcus said:


> I just got a mimby and jot and I have a UDA-1. Unless you compare the DACs side by side and A/B them, the UDA-1 is pretty good. The modi it maybe possibly a little better for jazz, but pretty indistinguishable for rock unless you have pretty damn good well trained ears. The Jodie is a much more powerful Amp. I still have a lot of listening to do, but I would not sell the UDA-1 short. There's a lot of hype and kool-aid in audiophelia that can easily suck away money and time and simple enjoyment.
> 
> If you need a speaker amp, keep the UDA-1 and use it as a DAC and use the Jodie for headphones. If you don't need a speaker amp, the jot mimby is excellent.




Thanks for the reply, glad you own and like the UDA-1 I'm just finding myself constantly wondering how much better the Jot would be as an amp. Realistically I would have to sell the UDA to buy the Jot as I'm poor at the moment but is it really "that much" of an upgrade. 

But theres benefits of having the UDA (for me) I like having optical input, a remote, also the front USB port comes in handy from time to time. I don't use it for speakers though I could one day. 

But this hype surrounding the 650 + Jot in balanced mode has me wondering. I wish I could just audition it but I'm nowhere near the 1 place in Aus that sells them. Sigh.


----------



## Zachik

Hey guys - I could use some technical help or pointing at the right direction.
I have finally purchased (and received) my Jot with DAC module, but I am having technical issues trying to make it work...
I am using Windows 7 Ultimate (64-bit) on an i7 desktop (custom built).
 
Important to note:
Modi 2 (basic $99 model) works perfectly fine on same USB port using same USB cable.  As far as I can recall, I never installed a driver for it.
 
Symptom:
The DAC does not appear in the list of playback devices.
 
Looking at the device manager, I do see:
"Schiit USB Audio Gen 2" with yellow exclamation sign next to it.  Seems to me a driver is needed.  Looking at the driver page (http://schiit.com/drivers) - the Jot is not mentioned at all... Does not need a driver, or omission by Schiit?
 
Decided to give it a try anyhow - I have downloaded and tried to install:
"http://schiit.com/public/upload/drivers/Schiit_USB_Gen2_1_16.zip"
 
But, the install fails.  It asks me to "connect the CMEDIA USB2.0 Audio Device", but since it cannot find it (the Jot is plugged to the PC and turned on) - it finally (after 3 retries) say that:
"CMEDIA USB2.0 Audio Device does not exist, the installation program will be terminated now".
 
For the fun of it - tried installing the USB Gen3 driver (for Yggy) as well.  Fails, too.  
 
PLEASE HELP!  
  
 (already e-mailed Nick @ Schiit, but hopefully with the help of the good people of Head-Fi, I might resolve it quickly)
  
 Thanks in advance!!


----------



## Kcharng

Had the same problem with my Window 10.
  
 Download the USB 1.03 version and it will install fine. 
  
  
 Quote:


zachik said:


> Hey guys - I could use some technical help or pointing at the right direction.
> I have finally purchased (and received) my Jot with DAC module, but I am having technical issues trying to make it work...
> I am using Windows 7 Ultimate (64-bit) on an i7 desktop (custom built).
> 
> ...


----------



## Mirakoolz

cthomas said:


> Hey guys, I'm considering the Jot for my HD650. I've heard that this combo through a balanced cable sounds incredible but just have a couple of questions...
> 
> Firstly I currently own a Sony UDA-1 which I like as a DAC but I think the amp section is a bit on the weak side. The only other amp/DAC I've owned to compare it to would be a Sony PHA-3 which in balanced mode with my SE846 sounded a lot better than the UDA-1. As these 2 amp/DACs are the only 2 I've heard how much of an upgrade would the Jot be for my HD650? Are we talking vastly different or subtle differences?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Australia Sucks! Picked up the JOT for $799
 if your ears are anything like mine, all i can advise is to not get your hopes up too high.
 my curiosity and head-fi browsing corrupted me in to buying the JOT. and now im somewhat wishing i had my $799 back to spend on headphones instead. hahaha


----------



## cthomas

mirakoolz said:


> Australia Sucks! Picked up the JOT for $799
> if your ears are anything like mine, all i can advise is to not get your hopes up too high.
> my curiosity and head-fi browsing corrupted me in to buying the JOT. and now im somewhat wishing i had my $799 back to spend on headphones instead. hahaha




Exactly right. I've been reading all this hype but when it comes down to it my HD650's already sound quite good but until I listen to the Jot myself I'll never know. And I sold my UDA-1 this arvo anyway so I need something to replace it! I went to Addicted to Audio website and it says the Jot was on sale and got excited, except the price was still $799. I emailed them and they said it was a mistake.

Anyway now I'm considering getting a Sony PHA-3 (which I used to own and regret selling) to drive my HD650. Unlike the Schiit stuff Sony is cheaper here on occasion. PHA-3 retails for RRP $999 USD ($1300 AUD) but we get it for RRP $1099 AUD. Well I worked a little magic and I have the option to get it for only $750 and it's portable which I like very much.


----------



## Mirakoolz

cthomas said:


> Exactly right. I've been reading all this hype but when it comes down to it my HD650's already sound quite good but until I listen to the Jot myself I'll never know. And I sold my UDA-1 this arvo anyway so I need something to replace it! I went to Addicted to Audio website and it says the Jot was on sale and got excited, except the price was still $799. I emailed them and they said it was a mistake.
> 
> Anyway now I'm considering getting a Sony PHA-3 (which I used to own and regret selling) to drive my HD650. Unlike the Schiit stuff Sony is cheaper here on occasion. PHA-3 retails for RRP $999 USD ($1300 AUD) but we get it for RRP $1099 AUD. Well I worked a little magic and I have the option to get it for only $750 and it's portable which I like very much.


 
  
 with buyers remorse subsiding, whats keeping the JOT at my desk is peace of mind that i'll be OK for any headphone im yet to own. ie; a new headphone amp wont need to be considered when purchasing my next headphone, whatever it'll be.
 if portability is a deciding factor for you then there is no need for any considerations?


----------



## cthomas

Portability is not a deciding factor but I do like having the option. I realise the Jot will probably sound better but "how much" better I'm not sure. If I can get close to 90% of the performance of the Jot in a portable set up I'll take that option for now, and when I'm rich and need a powerful amp for multiple HP's I will obviously buy something like the Jot. But for now I only have a pair of SE846 and a HD650.

Plus the Sony has basically everything I need in an amp/DAC like optical/USB input and line out. I don't have studio monitors so I don't need the Jot for that specific reason. I also use a MacBook Pro which I take with me when I travel, but having a portable amp is not necessary it's just something handy to have.


----------



## Allanmarcus

mirakoolz said:


> cthomas said:
> 
> 
> > Hey guys, I'm considering the Jot for my HD650. I've heard that this combo through a balanced cable sounds incredible but just have a couple of questions...
> ...


 

 IMHO, the breakdown of sound quality percentages for listening. This assumes good quality equipment.
  
 source quality: 10%
 cables: 1% (Monoprice cables or better)
 Power Supplies: 1%
 DAC: 3%
 Amp: 3% (includes the benefits of balanced vs SE)
 Headphone cable: 2%
 Headphones: 80% *
  
 * pads can make a significant difference
  
 Obviously YMMV, except for very well trained and sensitive ears (youth helps), this is probably true. True audiophiles are always trying to squeeze that last 1% or less out of their system. We always head about the law of diminishing returns, and it it absolutely true. It's early easy to get to the 95% level with 500$US headphones and $500US of electronics. 
  
 The said, the Jodie does seem to power some of my harder to drive headphones well, like the Ether C and the HD800. I haven't tried the T1 as I loaned it to ColtMrFire, but I'll get it back too. I still need to more comparison listening to draw conclusions, though, but initial impressions are unless you need more power to drive hard to drive headphones, benefits are minimal if you already have a good amp. I will also compare it to my iCan Nano, and I might bring home my 1st get Magni, but that is a lot of wiring headache.


----------



## Tomasz2D

allanmarcus said:


> IMHO, the breakdown of sound quality percentages for listening. This assumes good quality equipment.


 
  
 My turn:
 Youth: 90%
 Audio equipment: 10%


----------



## Mirakoolz

i agree with the last few posts
  
 the jot wasnt a complete waste of money (overkill). it made me face what i believed was true (to me) that SS amps are pretty much equal, providing they can power what i own. i was in denial and wanted to believe great things can be achieved with more money. granted, i havent experienced any summit-fi stuff however i have no interest in spending the amount of money required.
  
 to me, if one is to chase a different/better sound from their headphone, it just means they have the wrong headphone


----------



## joeexp

allanmarcus said:


> IMHO, the breakdown of sound quality percentages for listening. This assumes good quality equipment.
> 
> source quality: 10%
> cables: 1% (Monoprice cables or better)
> ...


 

 Not true in so many ways!


----------



## Zachik

kcharng said:


>





> Had the same problem with my Window 10.
> 
> Download the USB 1.03 version and it will install fine.
> 
> ...


 
  
 What do you mean by "USB 1.03 version" ?  Where did you get it from?
 If you refer to the USB Gen3 driver (for Yggy) - then I already gave it a try (see my original post) with same results as Gen2 driver...  If that is a different one - please oh please share the link with me


----------



## Allanmarcus

zachik said:


> kcharng said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


 
 there is an "alternate driver" on the downloads page. It is version 1.03


----------



## Allanmarcus

joeexp said:


> allanmarcus said:
> 
> 
> > IMHO, the breakdown of sound quality percentages for listening. This assumes good quality equipment.
> ...


 

 Nope, this is true that this is my humble opinion.
  
 You, of course, may have a differing opinion. If you do, we'd love to hear it.


----------



## Limu Shirin

allanmarcus said:


> IMHO, the breakdown of sound quality percentages for listening. This assumes good quality equipment.
> 
> source quality: 10%
> cables: 1% (Monoprice cables or better)
> ...


 

 I Totally do agree!


----------



## joeq70

allanmarcus said:


> Nope, this is true that this is my humble opinion.
> 
> You, of course, may have a differing opinion. If you do, we'd love to hear it.


 
 IMO percentage values are not useful because not all headphones need an amp or benefit from one in a meaningful way. Ex: Meze 99 Classics. Sound pretty much the same out of anything, with little nuances here or there depending on paired gear (nice sounding portable headphone BTW). The HD650 is very amp dependent even though it isn't hard to get adequate volume. The percentages will change depending on the headphone is my point. I think its generally more accurate to rank gear by contribution to sound/worthiness of investment. For such a rank I would go:
  
 1. Headphones
 2. Amp
 3. DAC
 4. Transport
 5. Cables/power strips/magic audio stones/etc
  
 I didn't include source quality above because the rank above illustrates worthiness of investment. It kind of hard to just tell people what to listen to since we all have different taste. It's just important for people to understand that crap recordings will probably always sound like crap so try to find well produced music, and when you do, do not over compress the files. Either listen from a CD, Vinyl, or try rips in FLAC, 320kpbs mp3 or something comparable. If you think your amp is "noisy" because your youtube videos have artifacts, please just stop.


----------



## Allanmarcus

joeq70 said:


> allanmarcus said:
> 
> 
> > Nope, this is true that this is my humble opinion.
> ...


 

 Great points. Garbage in -> Garbage out. 
  
 I guess what I was saying is _at best_ those percentages express the way sound can be tuned using any decent DAC, decent cables, good source, and a SS amp. The headphones are really the key.


----------



## BarDash

How about using a 128kps mp3 or such vs a Flac/ DSD file ? Shouldn't that be in the"chain" somewhere? IE file quality.


----------



## Zachik

allanmarcus said:


> there is an "alternate driver" on the downloads page. It is version 1.03


 
  
 Totally missed it on the drivers download page!!!   
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Will give it a go as soon as I get home tonight.  Thanks Allan.


----------



## watchnerd

joeexp said:


> Not true in so many ways!


 
  
 If "source quality" means "recording / mix quality", I would put that at 80% all by itself.
  
 A crappy, compressed, bad mix on awesome gear still sounds bad.


----------



## Tuneslover

mirakoolz said:


> Australia Sucks! Picked up the JOT for $799
> if your ears are anything like mine, all i can advise is to not get your hopes up too high.
> my curiosity and head-fi browsing corrupted me in to buying the JOT. and now im somewhat wishing i had my $799 back to spend on headphones instead. hahaha



Mine cost me $620 Cdn so roughly the same as my Lake People G109S shipped from Germany. Both amps are pretty equal in quality but they are slightly different in character, which I like.
The HD650'S definitely scale beautifully with the Jot. I'm keeping mine.

Check the earlier post of the guy in Australia wanting to hear the Jot. Not sure how far apart you blokes are though.


----------



## Allanmarcus

bardash said:


> How about using a 128kps mp3 or such vs a Flac/ DSD file ? Shouldn't that be in the"chain" somewhere? IE file quality.


 

 to me that is a part of "source".


----------



## rovopio

allanmarcus said:


> IMHO, the breakdown of sound quality percentages for listening. This assumes good quality equipment.
> 
> source quality: 10%
> cables: 1% (Monoprice cables or better)
> ...


 
 Thanks for the reply. It's really useful to me. I wish I would've been able to read it last week. May have sway my decision from getting a Jotunheim to getting a Modi Multibit instead (it's cheaper, and I already have SS amp).
 But thank you nonetheless. It's a great info for future purchase consideration for people with limited spending budget like me.


----------



## CriticalTodd

I've been using one of either an Ifi iDSD micro, a GO450 to Leckerton UHA-6S.MKII, or a GOV2+, for both home/office and mobile. Would a Jotunheim be a good upgrade as either just an amp or as a DAC/amp over, or in addition, to any of these? Just got a pair of Ether Flow C headphones to go with my NAD HP 50s, and AKG K7XX.


----------



## Voxata

Depends on your source Critical. I will say that Mimby+Jot blows my Ifi iDSD out of the water. Mimby is also the better DAC, imo.


----------



## CriticalTodd

voxata said:


> Depends on your source Critical. I will say that Mimby+Jot blows my Ifi iDSD out of the water.


 

 FLAC + Spotify Extreme mostly. Good to know, regarding that combination.


----------



## JLoud

allanmarcus said:


> zachik said:
> 
> 
> > kcharng said:
> ...


 
 I had same issue with driver not working, Jot showing orange box indicating driver problem.  My Modi 2 worked fine on same machine. I just had windows search for a driver.  Updated and worked fine after that.  Might not need to download drivers from Schiit.


----------



## BarDash

allanmarcus said:


> to me that is a part of "source".




News to me... Appreciate your clarification.


----------



## BarDash

allanmarcus said:


> IMHO, the breakdown of sound quality percentages for listening. This assumes good quality equipment.
> 
> source quality: 10%
> cables: 1% (Monoprice cables or better)
> ...




I guess when i saw you put the source quality at only 10℅ I found it difficult to swallow what you meant.


----------



## cthomas

Sorry for causing these fights all over the place, amping seems to be a touchy subject. Maybe there's some nice head-fier who lives around the Gold Coast/Brisbane area of Australia who would let me listen to their Jot with my 650?  But I have the feeling I'm all by myself in SEQ. All you guys are in Sydney and Melbourne in which case I could just walk into A2A. Sigh


----------



## Ancipital

cthomas said:


> Sorry for causing these fights all over the place, amping seems to be a touchy subject. Maybe there's some nice head-fier who lives around the Gold Coast/Brisbane area of Australia who would let me listen to their Jot with my 650?  But I have the feeling I'm all by myself in SEQ. All you guys are in Sydney and Melbourne in which case I could just walk into A2A. Sigh



 

You're quite unlikely to hate that combo- it's unicornlicious, esp balanced. If (through some freak circumstance) you did loathe it, it'd not be a hard amp to resell, either


----------



## cthomas

ancipital said:


> cthomas said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry for causing these fights all over the place, amping seems to be a touchy subject. Maybe there's some nice head-fier who lives around the Gold Coast/Brisbane area of Australia who would let me listen to their Jot with my 650?  But I have the feeling I'm all by myself in SEQ. All you guys are in Sydney and Melbourne in which case I could just walk into A2A. Sigh
> ...




Unicornlicious... I like that haha! I don't doubt it's a great sounding amp but more just trying to figure out if a portable amp/DAC would be sufficient to drive the HD650 well enough or if I'm severely missing out on something special. 

Some users say it's not that much of an upgrade but then others say it is. If I had any experience with many amps myself I could make my own decision on the subject.


----------



## Mirakoolz

cthomas said:


> Sorry for causing these fights all over the place, amping seems to be a touchy subject. Maybe there's some nice head-fier who lives around the Gold Coast/Brisbane area of Australia who would let me listen to their Jot with my 650?  But I have the feeling I'm all by myself in SEQ. All you guys are in Sydney and Melbourne in which case I could just walk into A2A. Sigh


 
  
 i dont see any fighting. although it does seem to be a touchy subject, i strongly believe that it doesnt have to be.
 people who cant hear a difference (me) should appreciate that some people can, and those who can should not look down at those who cant (especially after their own substantial purchase)
 ... now, to solve world hunger


----------



## Ancipital

cthomas said:


> Unicornlicious... I like that haha! I don't doubt it's a great sounding amp but more just trying to figure out if a portable amp/DAC would be sufficient to drive the HD650 well enough or if I'm severely missing out on something special.
> 
> 
> 
> Some users say it's not that much of an upgrade but then others say it is. If I had any experience with many amps myself I could make my own decision on the subject.



 


Let me add to the noise pollution to say that I wouldn't bother with a portable amp with the 650- many can make it go loud, but few can actually make it sound as good as it should. The 650 sings with a beefy enough amp- hence all the wild-eyed stuff about how it "scales", give it an insane amp and suddenly, all talk of "veil" and a "sluggish" sound becomes a bad memory. Relegating my portable DAC/amp to IEM duty on the move was a good idea, it's a more natural fit.

I made the mistake of trying to use a Mojo to drive the 650, with utterly insipid results. I then tried a Magni 2 (much better results, but still poorly-controlled bass and some lack of detail). The Jot, with the 650, however, really is a nice pairing. Many people find the Jot too unsparing, bringing out nasty treble peaks in some cans, but the 650 seems to work. The treble isn't shouty, the bass is taut and textured, the mids remain lovely and smooth, it's really pleasant- and I'd probably argue that you don't even need to modify the 650 beyond adding a balanced cable.

They're great cans for the money- though a pig to drive properly. It's a fantastic amp for the money, but a touch facist with overly bright/harsh headphones. However, they appear to be a very complimentary match. I have my doubts if you'd find a better combo for that money, currently.

You're right, it's a shame that you can't just listen- ten minutes with your own music through that pairing, and you'd be sold. You won't find a better solid state amp for those headphones without spending quite a lot more. The best part about those two? There aren't many obvious upgrades without big spending- it's quite a safe purchase.

(Of course, you can always fret about your DAC, but a Modi Multibit will probably see you right, and is accordingly sensibly priced, too.)


----------



## Mirakoolz

cthomas said:


> Unicornlicious... I like that haha! I don't doubt it's a great sounding amp but more just trying to figure out if a portable amp/DAC would be sufficient to drive the HD650 well enough or if I'm severely missing out on something special.
> 
> Some users say it's not that much of an upgrade but then others say it is. If I had any experience with many amps myself I could make my own decision on the subject.


 
  
 here lies the root of all (financial) trouble. the wandering.
 a great amp is a great amp. comparing the two may yield a difference but will that difference justify the $$ or will it be $$ worth of buyers remorse.
 sure, you can resell on the used market but then that's also money lost. List it for $700 (practically new) and i assume most people who can afford that would may as well buy it brand new with free freight, peace of mind and store-rapport  for $799. (list it on ebay and be docked fees in excess of 10%)
  
 I see you've owned a range of electronics. being rational, were you able to reliably notice the improvements as you upgraded? Maybe from your first device to your current one, yes, but im guessing the difference between what you have now and the jot is a lesser jump in terms of quality, specs, technologies
  
 i sure hope u get the chance to listen to the Jot so that your mind can be at peace.
  
 i cant comment on pairings because i no longer have the HD650's
 but if the jot can fix the bass roll off and increase treble extension, i'd love to buy another pair!
 for me, im not one to beat the dead horse (hd650's) by throwing extra money at it (electronics) to make them sound like the pair of headphones i should've bought


----------



## cthomas

@Ancipital

Thanks, if you could quantify the difference between the Mojo and Jot as a percentage what would that be? I'm just trying to weigh up the convenience of having a portable option compared to stationary sound quality.


----------



## leafy7382

Just out of curiosity. Schiit itself offers a 15-day return policy, does the Aussie distributor do the same or there isn't one at all? If there is, why not just buy it and try it for 2 weeks and decide if you like it or not?


----------



## cthomas

Only one dealer called Addicted to Audio but they don't offer a change of mind return.


----------



## joeq70

leafy7382 said:


> Just out of curiosity. Schiit itself offers a 15-day return policy, does the Aussie distributor do the same or there isn't one at all? If there is, why not just buy it and try it for 2 weeks and decide if you like it or not?


 
 I would guess that shipping to and from Australia makes this strategy prohibitive. That and the restocking fee.


----------



## cthomas

It costs more here too, probably to cover them for shipping back to US if something goes wrong. $499 USD equals around $650 AUD but we pay $799.


----------



## Dephezz

cthomas said:


> It costs more here too, probably to cover them for shipping back to US if something goes wrong. $499 USD equals around $650 AUD but we pay $799.


 
 In Moscow we have official price of 800$ = 1050AUD. Nice margin, right? Thats how u do business in Russia 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 P.S.: I shipped it for 600$. Nice AMP. Mediocre DAC (but with good value).


----------



## Mirakoolz

buying direct from schiit usa works out to be $770 AUD (approx) including shipping. $799 is a fair deal in comparison to have local support


----------



## Frode Roed

cthomas said:


> @Ancipital
> 
> Thanks, if you could quantify the difference between the Mojo and Jot as a percentage what would that be? I'm just trying to weigh up the convenience of having a portable option compared to stationary sound quality.


 
 Just to say that sometimes my Elear breaks up when driven by the Mojo on moderate to loud levels.
 The source volume is set at 100%.


----------



## Ancipital

cthomas said:


> @Ancipital
> 
> Thanks, if you could quantify the difference between the Mojo and Jot as a percentage what would that be? I'm just trying to weigh up the convenience of having a portable option compared to stationary sound quality.


 
  
 Not really, the Mojo simply isn't enough amp for the HD650, it fails to drive them properly, they sound flat, boring and insipid. I simply can't listen to my HD650 from my Mojo, as I know that they're not supposed to sound like that. 
  
 Mojo with my IEMs? Fine, decent sound for mobile. Mojo with my HE-560? Reasonable, though not as good as any of my desktop options. Mojo with my HD650? No thanks, I'd rather plug my IEMs in until I can get to a proper amp. Chord fanboys overclaim a lot about the Mojo, which doesn't do it any favours and leads to a lot of people ending up disappointed in the long term. It's a cool device, as long as you play to its strengths.
  
 The Jot+Mojo sounds a lot better than the bare Mojo. The Jot+Mimby is an even nicer (and far more convenient/reliable) combo. To get the most from that combo- pick up a spare stock HD650 cable and re-terminate it balanced with a 4 pin XLR (Neutrik plugs are nice)- probably one of the cheapest and easiest ways to re-cable it balanced in a hurry.


----------



## cthomas

Thanks, I'd like to hear the Jot one day.

So since the Mimby doesn't have balanced output does that mean the Jot + Mimby would not be truly balanced?


----------



## Ancipital

cthomas said:


> Thanks, I'd like to hear the Jot one day.
> 
> So since the Mimby doesn't have balanced output does that mean the Jot + Mimby would not be truly balanced?


 
  
 The amp will still be running balanced and driving the headphones balanced, the difference is really minimal. If you find Atomicbob's measurements for the Jot, you'll see that while balanced is marginally better than SE at all points, you don't lose much at all (probably below audible thresholds) by going SE in and then balanced out.
  
 Jot doesn't care, it's always balanced, but can always do SE or balanced in and out, in any combo. It's a pretty remarkable amp for the money.


----------



## cthomas

Cool, thanks again.


----------



## CarlosUnchained

Any comparison Jot+DAC with the Grace Design m9XX? We are talking of the same price.
  
 More Power and balanced outputs Vs a better DAC?


----------



## robertbratosin

bardash said:


> I guess when i saw you put the source quality at only 10℅ I found it difficult to swallow what you meant.




Source ,files,dac and amp are almost 50,60% of the final sound quality , a 100 dollars headphone with high quality source,files.dac and amp will sound better than a 4000 dollars heaphone hooked up to an iphone


----------



## Muinarc

robertbratosin said:


> Source ,files,dac and amp are almost 50,60% of the final sound quality , a 100 dollars headphone with high quality source,files.dac and amp will sound better than a 4000 dollars heaphone hooked up to an iphone


 
  
 I haven't found that kind of ratio to be remotely true. Focal Utopia sound pretty good out of a phone.


----------



## Mirakoolz

Quote:


robertbratosin said:


> Source ,files,dac and amp are almost 50,60% of the final sound quality , a 100 dollars headphone with high quality source,files.dac and amp will sound better than a 4000 dollars heaphone hooked up to an iphone


 
  


muinarc said:


> I haven't found that kind of ratio to be remotely true. Focal Utopia sound pretty good out of a phone.


 
  
 Associating fidelity with cost is not the best way to think about this. the way you Feel however is up to you 
  
 for me, the ratio is
 - songs i enjoy
 - gear that i own that works as it should
 - 90% Mood. i can tolerate crap when im in a positive mood


----------



## BarDash

robertbratosin said:


> Source ,files,dac and amp are almost 50,60% of the final sound quality , a 100 dollars headphone with high quality source,files.dac and amp will sound better than a 4000 dollars heaphone hooked up to an iphone


 
  
  


muinarc said:


> I haven't found that kind of ratio to be remotely true. Focal Utopia sound pretty good out of a phone.


 
  
  

   





> IMHO, the breakdown of sound quality percentages for listening. This assumes good quality equipment.
> 
> source quality: 10%
> cables: 1% (Monoprice cables or better)
> ...


 
 With the understanding that most of Head Fi offers subjective opinions It's difficult for me to understand why or how you can post "sound quality percentages for listening" which is probably one of the most subjective things anyone would post. Just because it's pre-faced with IMHO or IMO doesn't mean it's any less opinionated, and almost impossible to determine IMHO
 Also for beginners I totally disagree with amps are only 3% of the equation and are equal to the DACs in SQ percentage.


----------



## Allanmarcus

bardash said:


> With the understanding that most of Head Fi offers subjective opinions It's difficult for me to understand why or how you can post "sound quality percentages for listening" which is probably one of the most subjective things anyone would post. Just because it's pre-faced with IMHO or IMO doesn't mean it's any less opinionated, and almost impossible to determine IMHO
> Also for beginners I totally disagree with amps are only 3% of the equation and are equal to the DACs in SQ percentage.


 
  
  
 Sorry, you are right. From now on we ONLY post facts that can be checked. No more opinions, please.


----------



## Muinarc

bardash said:


> With the understanding that most of Head Fi offers subjective opinions It's difficult for me to understand why or how you can post "sound quality percentages for listening" which is probably one of the most subjective things anyone would post. Just because it's pre-faced with IMHO or IMO doesn't mean it's any less opinionated, and almost impossible to determine IMHO
> Also for beginners I totally disagree with amps are only 3% of the equation and are equal to the DACs in SQ percentage.


 

 ​You just need to follow the distortion. Headphones have the highest distortion, they vary the most from model to model. Amps next, especially tube amps. A good DAC should have insanely low distortion by comparison. Sure some have better filters and that does make a difference as does the analog output stage in the dac. It's still a lot less of an influence on what you hear than the amp. If you want to subscribe to cables they would be the next in line....... That's just gear, Of course some arguments can be made about component symmetry in there yada yada.
  
 The recording matters a lot, as does the mood of the listener.


----------



## BarDash

allanmarcus said:


> Sorry, you are right. From now on we ONLY post facts that can be checked. No more opinions, please.


 

 Not my point, but take from it what you will...


----------



## Delayeed

muinarc said:


> ​You just need to follow the distortion. Headphones have the highest distortion, they vary the most from model to model. Amps next, especially tube amps. A good DAC should have insanely low distortion by comparison. Sure some have better filters and that does make a difference as does the analog output stage in the dac. It's still a lot less of an influence on what you hear than the amp. If you want to subscribe to cables they would be the next in line....... That's just gear, Of course some arguments can be made about component symmetry in there yada yada.
> 
> The recording matters a lot, as does the mood of the listener.


 
 Distortion isn't a big deal. We are talking about 0.001% like THD values here, also well implemented tube amps can measure even better than "decent "solid state ones. Anyway I agree. Headphones > Amp > DAC >>> Interconnects. Synergy is above all though since you could have the best measuring setup and be fatigued after a few tracks or a setup that doesn't look insanely amazing on paper but in real life allows more detail through with less fatigue.


----------



## KG Jag

The weakest link will always limit, if not drag down, an audio chain.
  
 Beyond that it's how the various parts of that chain work (or fail to work) together.


----------



## BarDash

kg jag said:


> The weakest link will always limit, if not drag down, an audio chain.
> 
> Beyond that it's how the various parts of that chain work (or fail to work) together.


 

 Well said!


----------



## Kcharng

zachik said:


> What do you mean by "USB 1.03 version" ?  Where did you get it from?
> If you refer to the USB Gen3 driver (for Yggy) - then I already gave it a try (see my original post) with same results as Gen2 driver...  If that is a different one - please oh please share the link with me


 
  
 here is the link from Schiit website. 
 http://schiit.com/public/upload/drivers/Schiit_USB_1_03.zip
  
 This version should work fine.


----------



## Kcharng

carlosunchained said:


> Any comparison Jot+DAC with the Grace Design m9XX? We are talking of the same price.
> 
> More Power and balanced outputs Vs a better DAC?


 
  
 They both sound pretty much the same to my ear, as with any reasonable quality amp/dac.
  
 Main factors are Grace have more features while Jotunheim have more power to drive a wider variety of headphone. 
  
 Other than that it will be boil down to design and mobility. 
  
 The convenience of grace size and USB power will allows you to be more mobile. But Jotunheim build-in transformer is pretty convenient too.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I always find assigning percentages to how much each component affects the final sound silly; I think of SQ as a series of bottlenecks between the recording studio and my ears. The A/D converter in the studio, the resolution of the digital file, the DAC, the amp, the transducers. Focus your dollars on your bottleneck. If you have the analog out of Tidal on your iPhone (6 series or earlier, lol!) going into BHSE and SR009, you should probably look at upgrading the DAC. Even though transducers might account for a bigger "percentage" of the overall sound, sticking your aux jack into the Orpheus Successor, while hilarious, will not move the needle so much even as upgrading to Mimby, never mind Yggy, despite the "DAC percentage" accounting for rather little of the usual "total."


----------



## chenszhanx

My coworker bought M9xx and I bought Jot(DAC module)
  
 M9XX with stock cable and normal power source at office
 Jot printer cable  and stock power cable plug at office  
  
 M9XX has blacker background 
 but  insufficient power to push Q701 and MDR-Z7(compared with Jot)
  
  
 Jot has no background noise  when max volume with IEMs,but M9XX has blacker background and cleaner sound.
 Jot slightly stronger bass and mid.
  
 They are both very good stuff.
  
 We think M9XX need a amp to power full-size headphones.
  
 Jot need more work on usb decrapify or buy another DAC.


----------



## zeissiez

Sometimes it's more than fixing the technical bottleneck. Many find the HD800 with the Manley Neo Classic 300B a match, as this amp rounds down the edginess in the sound of the HD800.


----------



## Kcharng

Assuming mid fi level equipments where your dollars will achieve maximum value. If you have $2,000 dollars to spend, what percentage would you spend on

1.Power (conditioner, filter) 
2.Interconnects (USB, headphone, Rca cables) 
3.Source
4.Dac
5.Amp
6.Headphone 


Sent from my SM-N920C using Tapatalk


----------



## theveterans

Power = 2.5%, standard surge protector 
Cables = 3%, mono price cables
Source = 0%, i.e. Your existing laptop
DAC = 14%% , mimby
Amp = 25% Jotunheim
The rest for headphones.


----------



## Maelob

It is never 2k LOL - don't forget to add additional 500 six month later for an upgrade then selling 1k in equipment to get a 2k piece and then trading another piece for another and it will never end.  Welcome to the hobby.....


----------



## watchnerd

carlosunchained said:


> Any comparison Jot+DAC with the Grace Design m9XX? We are talking of the same price.
> 
> More Power and balanced outputs Vs a better DAC?


 
  
 As an amp, the Jotunheim just crushes the m9XX in terms of output power and balanced connections.
  
 Is that overkill for your needs? Maybe.
  
 As a DAC, though, the m9xx offers more input choices.
  
 However, as far as I can tell the m9XX isn't a balanced DAC, FWIW.


----------



## BarDash

Other optional accessories: headphone stand and new larger desk to hold all the stuff accumulated with this hobby! (Speaking from experience of course)


----------



## Zachik

kcharng said:


> here is the link from Schiit website.
> http://schiit.com/public/upload/drivers/Schiit_USB_1_03.zip
> 
> This version should work fine.


 
  
 Worked!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Thank you all, for pointing me to the alternate driver (that I missed despite reading the driver page 3 times...)


----------



## Dephezz

kcharng said:


> Assuming mid fi level equipments where your dollars will achieve maximum value. If you have $2,000 dollars to spend, what percentage would you spend on
> 
> 1.Power (conditioner, filter)
> 2.Interconnects (USB, headphone, Rca cables)
> ...


 
 1. 40$. Standard surge protector
 2. 40$-AQ Forest USB. 60$-Good XLR cables from DAC to Jodie. 
 3. 200$. Uptone regen to clear schitty laptop/pc usb.
 4. 700-900$ Used good R2R/Multibit DAC.
 5. 400$. Jodie
 6. 500$. A-T MSR7/a990z/1000x/z or Beyer DT880/DT1770/DT1990, or Sennh 600/650 or add cash and go for Elear.


----------



## SearchOfSub

Standard powercord for PC
AQ usb cable - AQ XLR cable
AQ Jitterbug
Jotneheim w/ balanced dac built in/ Used AQ powercord for Jotneheim
AQ Nightowl Carbons.


----------



## Allanmarcus

I would echo using Monoprice for cables. Most people cannot hear any difference between a $1000 cable and a $10 cable, so why waste money on $100 for cables. 
  
 I would not get a Regen or a Wyrd unless you have specific issues with your DAC (note, I have both). Even then, get a used Regen for ~$100 or a used Wyrd for less -- but _only_ if you have issues.
  
 For a DAC, any decent $250/300 DAC will be great. A used Bifrost. A new or used Mimby. Even a Modi is great. The Peachtree DAC-ITx is also very good, especially used for $200 or less. A CEntrace DACmini CX for $300 is also excellent. As are a dozen other DACs in this price range. The iDSD Micro or CEntrace DACMini CX might be a great starter system, and then get a better amp after you try it and really A/B test to see if you are getting value from a separate amp.
  
 The Jodie is an excellent amp, but the iCan SE is as well, and has bass boost and 3D (both analog, not DSP). If you also want an integrated speaker amp, you must look elsewhere. Still, there are many amps in the <$500 price, but the Jodie represents and excellent value.
  
 The headphones will represent your highest price single item, and will affect your decisions on all the other equipment (for the most part). Bottom line, if you are like most of the fools here (as am I , you will always want something better/different. Make sure to try as many brands and headphones as you can. Go to meets and shows and stores. The difference between a $500 headphone and $1000 headphone is significant. The same price difference between DACs and amp will be very small for vast majority of people. The price difference in interconnect and headphone cables vs the value is insignificant. Cable upgrades are for people that have money during holes in their pockets are are looking for that last 1% better sound, even if they cannot tell the difference in an A/B test  Mostly they hear a difference and call it "better" because the cable costs more.


----------



## MWSVette

kcharng said:


> Assuming mid fi level equipments where your dollars will achieve maximum value. If you have $2,000 dollars to spend, what percentage would you spend on
> 
> 1.Power (conditioner, filter)
> 2.Interconnects (USB, headphone, Rca cables)
> ...


 
  
 OK I'll give it a go...
  
 1)   $20.00 surge protector,  $100.00 Schiit Wyrd.
 2)   $20.00 - $40.00 Schiit Pyst as required for your set up.
 3)   $0.00  Use an old PC or laptop.
 4)   $250.00 Schiit Modi Multibit
 5)   $400.00 Schitt Jotunheim
 6)   That leaves $1150.00 for one or two sets of complimentary headphones...


----------



## xuan87

I would....
  
 1)   $20.00 surge protector
 2)   DIY cables, say... $20 for all materials
 3)   Current desktop with optical out to...
 4)   $250.00 Schiit Modi Multibit
 5)   $400.00 Schitt Jotunheim
 6)   $1,310 for headphones. I may be able to get a pair of MrSpeakers Ether at this price during Black Friday.
  
 This would have been perfect, since I have 1 to 5 right now (in fact, listening to this very setup as I'm typing this) and 6 is my ideal and best-sounding headphones I've heard thus far, even including the Ether Flow. 
  
 Unfortunately I don't have $1,310 lying around (well, actually I do, but I've saving up for my own place) that I can splurge on an Ether, so I'm happily listening to the THX00 and R70X with the Jodie.


----------



## Alchemist007

1.Power $135 (whole computer system UPS)
2.Interconnects $100
3.Source ?
4.Dac $ 100 jot
5.Amp $ 400 jot
6.Headphone $1100 used LCD3


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

If I only had $2k I'd get n90q and 18 months of tidal


----------



## GearMe

$20 for cables
$350 for Valhalla 2..."Go ahead. Use it with Grados. Run it with AKGs."
$250 for Modi MB
$999 for HD800 (yes...someone called these mid-fi in a thread recently; hard to argue when the cost is compared to the rash of $4000 cans lately)
$150 for DT990
$150 for Q701 
$80 for SR60


----------



## bavinck

gearme said:


> $20 for cables
> $350 for Valhalla 2..."Go ahead. Use it with Grados. Run it with AKGs."
> $250 for Modi MB
> $999 for HD800 (yes...someone called these mid-fi in a thread recently; hard to argue when the cost is compared to the rash of $4000 cans lately)
> ...



If you have super bright tastes, sure.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

If you have super bright tastes, get K1000 lol


----------



## GearMe

bavinck said:


> If you have super bright tastes, sure.




Sorry...I'll work on them!


----------



## Headphone4Life

Has anyone used the Jotunheim with the Focal Elear?  I'm looking for a good amp in the $500 and under range and the Jotunheim seems to be a really good amp and the balanced feature is a big plus, but I just want to see if the Elear pairs well with it.


----------



## JLoud

headphone4life said:


> Has anyone used the Jotunheim with the Focal Elear?  I'm looking for a good amp in the $500 and under range and the Jotunheim seems to be a really good amp and the balanced feature is a big plus, but I just want to see if the Elear pairs well with it.


 
 I have that combination and really like it.  Good punch and dynamics.  The Elears are very detailed but non-fatiguing with this combo.  Well worth the $399.  Or $499 with DAC.  I have the DAC and honestly can't tell the diference from it and the Bifrost 4490.


----------



## Headphone4Life

Sounds like a good fit.  I might get the DAC combo or I might just keep using my X5II's USB DAC function as it still sounds fine to my.  Having a amp/DAC all in one would be easier to use and an extra $100 for the DAC that it comes with isn't a bad deal either.


----------



## ray-dude

We auditioned the Jotunheim Elear combo extensively. Seemed to be a solid match. Joti wasn't pushed at all. DAC was fine as well, but I preferred the sound of the Modi MB (wasn't able to audition it with the Bimby)


----------



## Headphone4Life

Well I think I've got it down to either the Jotunheim or the iFi Micro SE but I'm leaning toward the Jotunheim as there's the ability to upgrade over time with it because I don't think I'm going to get the DAC at first (need to save some cash where I can).


----------



## DavidA

kcharng said:


> Assuming mid fi level equipments where your dollars will achieve maximum value. If you have $2,000 dollars to spend, what percentage would you spend on
> 
> 1.Power (conditioner, filter)
> 2.Interconnects (USB, headphone, Rca cables)
> ...


 
 My take:
 1. $15 surge protector, but almost all will have one lying around so $0
 2. $20, most should have these, I would add an optical cable, so $5
 3. $0, use existing computer
 4. UD-301, $350
 5. $0, the UD-301 has a decent/good amp section but if needed, Lyr2 or Jot (one less headphone)
 6. $1645 for headphones: HE-560 ($650 used), TH-600 ($375 used), HD-700 ($425), these 3 headphones should cover most genres of music for most


----------



## Frode Roed

jloud said:


> I have that combination and really like it.  Good punch and dynamics.  The Elears are very detailed but non-fatiguing with this combo.  Well worth the $399.  Or $499 with DAC.  I have the DAC and honestly can't tell the diference from it and the Bifrost 4490.


 
 Are you running it balanced?


----------



## WhiteKnite

How would the original Modi compare to the DAC for this? Or should I just save up for a better DAC later on and use the modi until then?


----------



## Mirakoolz

whiteknite said:


> How would the original Modi compare to the DAC for this? Or should I just save up for a better DAC later on and use the modi until then?


 

 the modi has a lowish output voltage (?) so  you may have to drive the volume pot on the JOT a little higher.
 i find with the Jots internal dac, the volume knob is already higher than on my other gear.. doesnt mean anything though. yet to connect it with my old dac with a proper 2v output to see what the volume is like.
  
 your modi does 24/96, whereas the Jot's does 24/192 - if this matters to you


----------



## WhiteKnite

mirakoolz said:


> the modi has a lowish output voltage (?) so  you may have to drive the volume pot on the JOT a little higher.
> i find with the Jots internal dac, the volume knob is already higher than on my other gear.. doesnt mean anything though. yet to connect it with my old dac with a proper 2v output to see what the volume is like.
> 
> your modi does 24/96, whereas the Jot's does 24/192 - if this matters to you


 
 Not too worried about the output voltage as long as it isn't so low it starts adding noise with sensitive drivers.   Also fine with the bitrate since I only have a couple 24/192 albums and they aren't anything I listen to often enough to be worth it.  I'm more curious if there would be any discernible SQ difference between the AK4396 and the AK4490.


----------



## Mirakoolz

whiteknite said:


> Not too worried about the output voltage as long as it isn't so low it starts adding noise with sensitive drivers.   Also fine with the bitrate since I only have a couple 24/192 albums and they aren't anything I listen to often enough to be worth it.  I'm more curious if there would be any discernible SQ difference between the AK4396 and the AK4490.


 

 there are impressions on the DAC throughout this thread with many equally-right points of view
 i chose my jot with the dac because;
 - less clutter on my desk
 - keeps the jot fully balanced should i venture into balanced headphones in the future
 - relatively cheap to try and put my mind at ease. i felt that it cant be worse than my $100 chinese dac


----------



## zeissiez

The Jotunheim is in house. Will leave it on for >100 hours before I listen more critically.
  
 Initial impressions: The best transparency I heard from a Schiit amp, pretty neutral, not harsh even with a pair of unmodded HD800. The soundstage is pretty big among Schiit amps, if I recall correctly, which are typically more intimate. More importantly, there's enough depth, and sound images are quite holographic. It gives not that much away even when compared to a uber amp like the ECBA in details retrieval and overall technicalities (except in soundstage size where there's no contest), and even surpasses it in control. The overall SQ is certainly great. What it lacks is the extra bit of refinement, naturalness and flow, aka attributes of high end sound, if compared to higher end equipment. But high end sound ain't cheap, so the Jotunheim is certainly a great buy, I don't think the SQ can't be matched at this price, except maybe the NFB-28, which is USD200 more expensive. Other than Audio-GD, Cayin or Goldenwave, be ready to spend 2x for a better sound somewhere else.
  
 The DAC within is ok, not great but a good addition for a mere USD99. One has got to feed the amp with a better source to take advantage of the amp's capability.
  
 Highly recommended for sub-USD800, and a no-brainer for USD399!


----------



## acguitar84

zeissiez said:


> The Jotunheim is in house. Will leave it on for >100 hours before I listen more critically.
> 
> Initial impressions: The best transparency I heard from a Schiit amp, pretty neutral, not harsh even with a pair of unmodded HD800. The soundstage is pretty big among Schiit amps, if I recall correctly, which are typically more intimate. More importantly, there's enough depth, and sound images are quite holographic. It gives not that much away even when compared to a uber amp like the ECBA in details retrieval and overall technicalities (except in soundstage size where there's no contest), and even surpasses it in control. The overall SQ is certainly great. What it lacks is the extra bit of refinement, naturalness and flow, aka attributes of high end sound, if compared to higher end equipment. But high end sound ain't cheap, so the Jotunheim is certainly a great buy, I don't think the SQ can't be matched at this price, except maybe the NFB-28, which is USD200 more expensive. Other than Audio-GD, Cayin or Goldenwave, be ready to spend 2x for a better sound somewhere else.
> 
> ...


 
 I'm feeding one of my Jots with a Yggy, and it's a very nice match, IMO. Makes me want Yggy's at every station with the Jot's, and call it a day, at least DAC/Amp wise.


----------



## franzdom

acguitar84 said:


> I'm feeding one of my Jots with a Yggy, and it's a very nice match, IMO. Makes me want Yggy's at every station with the Jot's, and call it a day, at least DAC/Amp wise.


 
  
 I am also feeding my Jot with an Yggy (ok and an MJ2). May as well use it (yggy) if you got it.


----------



## acguitar84

franzdom said:


> I am also feeding my Jot with an Yggy (ok and an MJ2). May as well use it (yggy) if you got it.


 
 At first glance, it seems like an unlikely pairing, a TOTL Dac with a mid to low priced amp, but IMO the Jot hits out of its price range for sure. As for the Yggy, it's an addictive device. Love it so far, and of course, love the Jot.


----------



## Headphone4Life

From the review I can find it seems like the Jot does out preform its price point which isn't surprising since it is Schiit.  I was going to just get the amp for $399 but I might as well get the dac for the extra $100 as it will be better than just using my X5II's USB dac, plus its less wires and things to hook up.  I didn't think I could find a good balanced amp at the $500 and under mark but leave it to Schiit to make one.


----------



## JLoud

frode roed said:


> jloud said:
> 
> 
> > I have that combination and really like it.  Good punch and dynamics.  The Elears are very detailed but non-fatiguing with this combo.  Well worth the $399.  Or $499 with DAC.  I have the DAC and honestly can't tell the diference from it and the Bifrost 4490.
> ...


 
 No.  My balanced cables are supposed to arrive Friday.  Will post impressions later.


----------



## Headphone4Life

Since I'm getting the Jot I need to get some balanced cables for my Elear and I found some on eBay that look to be pretty good. They cost about $158 after shipping and the company that makes them has some for quite a few other headphones and all are the same price. They have full copper and silver plated copper to choose from as well as balanced and single ended.


----------



## watchnerd

headphone4life said:


> Since I'm getting the Jot I need to get some balanced cables for my Elear and I found some on eBay that look to be pretty good. They cost about $158 after shipping and the company that makes them has some for quite a few other headphones and all are the same price. They have full copper and silver plated copper to choose from as well as balanced and single ended.


 
  
 Can't believe how stupid expensive balanced headphone cables are compared to balanced XLR interconnects....


----------



## appleidappleid

Hello, I have ordered a Jotunheim with the DAC card. I am now looking for a usb cable (under 1m) to connect to my Windows computer. My budget is around US$50/£40 (I am from the UK). Do you guys have any suggestions?
  
 I am looking at the Wireworld Ultraviolet 7 and AudioQuest Cinnamon which both have a similar price. I am also looking at the Furutech ADL Formula 2 and AudioQuest Forest which are a bit cheaper. Which one should I go for?
  
 Thanks everyone in advance


----------



## Clemmaster

Yulong CU2 works great.

Gets them 1s and 0s to destination in a timely manner. Pretty sure I saw a 2 one time. That's the sign of a solid cable.


----------



## zeissiez

The Jotunheim does benefit from a good source like a Yggy or Vega. I don't mind the DAC being more resolving than the amp. A more balanced pairing maybe the Gumby, u give up a bit of the neutrality of a Yggy-Jotunheim pairing, for a slightly warmer sound, which may suit some headphones. BTW I found massive improvement after switching from the USB of my MacBook Pro to a Fiio X7 via coaxial.


----------



## CobraVerde

How does the phono stage rate? I am still deciding if I should get a Croft RIAA Phono stage or just use the Jot's.


----------



## zeissiez

appleidappleid said:


> Hello, I have ordered a Jotunheim with the DAC card. I am now looking for a usb cable (under 1m) to connect to my Windows computer. My budget is around US$50/£40 (I am from the UK). Do you guys have any suggestions?
> 
> I am looking at the Wireworld Ultraviolet 7 and AudioQuest Cinnamon which both have a similar price. I am also looking at the Furutech ADL Formula 2 and AudioQuest Forest which are a bit cheaper. Which one should I go for?
> 
> Thanks everyone in advance




If u r playing from a computer, i suggest get the cheaper one like the Furutech ADL F2 and spend the rest of the money on a Raspberry Pi 2 or 3. The improvement is much bigger here.


----------



## Frode Roed

I hope that Jotunheim customers have studied the geometry particulars for the Elears prior to ordering any balanced cables that doesn't say 'Elear compatible'.


----------



## watchnerd

appleidappleid said:


> Hello, I have ordered a Jotunheim with the DAC card. I am now looking for a usb cable (under 1m) to connect to my Windows computer. My budget is around US$50/£40 (I am from the UK). Do you guys have any suggestions?
> 
> I am looking at the Wireworld Ultraviolet 7 and AudioQuest Cinnamon which both have a similar price. I am also looking at the Furutech ADL Formula 2 and AudioQuest Forest which are a bit cheaper. Which one should I go for?
> 
> Thanks everyone in advance


 
  
 Neither, it's a waste of money and won't make things sound better.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

watchnerd said:


> Neither, it's a waste of money and won't make things sound better.



Save up for a mac.


----------



## watchnerd

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Save up for a mac.


 
  
 I have several already.


----------



## Allanmarcus

Well, I have a Jodie for a enough time to have some impressions. I've been testing with a Mimby for the DAC. Headphones include:
  
 Sennheiser HD800
 Sennheiser HD650
 Audio Zenith PMx2
 Code-X
 Grado RS2e
 Focal Utopia (loaner courtesy of Todd the Vinyl Junkie)
  
 Amps compared:
  
 iFi Audio iCan Nano
 Schiit Magni, 1st gen
 Sony UDA-1
  
 One interesting tidbit: All my headphones each sound about the same with all the amps (the Sony is a tad darker), except the Utopia. For some reason the Utopia sounded like absolute crap with the UDA-1, but sounds fantastic with the Jodie (and the other amps). Odd.
  
 At any rate, I set up the system to have the Mimby output split into the Jodie and a comparison amp. The amps then SE out into a FiiO switch box, and then the headphone SE to my head. That allows me to A/B switch really really easily.
  
 Bottomline, the Sony wasn't as good as even the Magni, but still quite acceptable for background listening. 
  
 Here's the interesting part. To my ears (which are over 50, and have gone to many loud rock concerts in their youth), the Magni, iCan, and Jodie all sound pretty darned similar. I do not think I could tell the difference between them in a blind test. Maybe the Jodie was a little clearer and had a little more bass, but that might have been bias.  
  
 I also tried the HD800 SE and Balanced on the Jodie. Again, I could not tell the difference in a blind test.
  
 Now, that all said, I certainly heard distinct differences with the different headphones. Bottomline is the Utopia is friggin' amazing. Just perfect for my tastes. Each of the other headphones had some issue against the Utopia. I will post specific impressions in the Utopia loaner thread. 
  
 So, where am I going. If you are a casual listener and already have a mangi or better, I don't think the Jodie offers enough improvement to upgrade. If you have good enough hearing and/or are a critical listener, the Jodie might be better. I certainly cannot tell. Obviously YMMV. These are just my opinions that someone might find useful.
  
 If you have another brand of Amp and can figure out how to compare to a Schiit amp, I recommend you do. If you have some integrated desktop unit, like the Sony UDA-1, NAD, Denon, or other brand, Schiit might offer a nice upgrade for you. A first gen Magni should be ~$60 on the used market. and is a great, inexpensive way to try the Schiit sound.


----------



## humblesquad

zeissiez said:


> ... But high end sound ain't cheap, so the Jotunheim is certainly a great buy, I don't think the SQ can't be matched at this price, except maybe the NFB-28, which is USD200 more expensive. Other than Audio-GD, Cayin or Goldenwave, be ready to spend 2x for a better sound somewhere else. ...


 
  
 Does this mean you feel NFB-28's amp part is better than Jot? I'd like to hear more about Jot vs AGD amps (NFB-28, NFB-1AMP etc)


----------



## cthomas

allanmarcus said:


> Well, I have a Jodie for a enough time to have some impressions. I've been testing with a Mimby for the DAC. Headphones include:
> 
> Sennheiser HD800
> Sennheiser HD650
> ...




UDA-1 vs Jot with 650?


----------



## Allanmarcus

Sony UDA-1
 Mimby/Jotunheim
  
 HD-650 with stock, but re-terminated balanced cable to the Jot
 Home-made balanced to TRS adapter with the same cable to the Sony
  
 So hard to tell. If there is a difference, it's very small to me.


----------



## cthomas

Hmm, that's interesting. I've heard a few people saying this but never directly compared to the UDA-1 (which I just sold). I just bought a Sony PHA-3 balanced amp after considering the Jot but decided portably was a good bonus.


----------



## Dephezz

appleidappleid said:


> Hello, I have ordered a Jotunheim with the DAC card. I am now looking for a usb cable (under 1m) to connect to my Windows computer. My budget is around US$50/£40 (I am from the UK). Do you guys have any suggestions?
> 
> I am looking at the Wireworld Ultraviolet 7 and AudioQuest Cinnamon which both have a similar price. I am also looking at the Furutech ADL Formula 2 and AudioQuest Forest which are a bit cheaper. Which one should I go for?
> 
> Thanks everyone in advance


 
 it does benefit when u plug good usb cable in schitty usb source like laptop/pc w/o galvanic isolation. Go for used AQ carbon - its rly musical one. WW Ultraviolet 7 is mediocre. I feel like AQ Cinnamon is better. Dont go for ADl Formula 2 - fail. Furutech GT2 is good only and worth it.
 AQ carbon, cinnamon are good choices.
 Or wait and save money for used uptone regen with mediocre 10$cable - good choice also.
 Good usb cable dispels some kind of veil and gives clarity to overall sound.
 Just let others who doesnt know this stuff to use their favorite high quality printer cables.


----------



## appleidappleid

dephezz said:


> it does benefit when u plug good usb cable in schitty usb source like laptop/pc w/o galvanic isolation. Go for used AQ carbon - its rly musical one. WW Ultraviolet 7 is mediocre. I feel like AQ Cinnamon is better. Dont go for ADl Formula 2 - fail. Furutech GT2 is good only and worth it.
> AQ carbon, cinnamon are good choices.
> Or wait and save money for used uptone regen with mediocre 10$cable - good choice also.
> Good usb cable dispels some kind of veil and gives clarity to overall sound.
> Just let others who doesnt know this stuff to use their favorite high quality printer cables.


 
  
 Thanks for all the replies! How about audioquest jitterbug? Is it worth getting it?


----------



## Dephezz

appleidappleid said:


> Thanks for all the replies! How about audioquest jitterbug? Is it worth getting it?


 
 i dont think so - this device is too simple to provide some serious effect. 
 Get normal/good cable to use it with internal Jodies DAC - it's the best choice. After u upgrade your DAC to 500-2000$ one, like Gungnir Multibit for example, its worth to get something like uptone regen, intona usb isolator, sonore microrendu, sotm usb hub, singxer su-1 - those devices are serious.


----------



## watchnerd

dephezz said:


> it does benefit when u plug good usb cable in schitty usb source like laptop/pc w/o galvanic isolation. Go for used AQ carbon - its rly musical one. WW Ultraviolet 7 is mediocre. I feel like AQ Cinnamon is better. Dont go for ADl Formula 2 - fail. Furutech GT2 is good only and worth it.
> AQ carbon, cinnamon are good choices.
> Or wait and save money for used uptone regen with mediocre 10$cable - good choice also.
> Good usb cable dispels some kind of veil and gives clarity to overall sound.
> Just let others who doesnt know this stuff to use their favorite high quality printer cables.


 
  
 What problem are you trying to solve?
  
 If there is excessive jitter, attack the jitter by using a regen/anti-jitter device.
  
 If there isn't excessive jitter, what exactly are you trying to address?


----------



## Slow_aetk

humblesquad said:


> Does this mean you feel NFB-28's amp part is better than Jot? I'd like to hear more about Jot vs AGD amps (NFB-28, NFB-1AMP etc)


 
 + 1


----------



## zeissiez

humblesquad said:


> zeissiez said:
> 
> 
> > ... But high end sound ain't cheap, so the Jotunheim is certainly a great buy, I don't think the SQ can't be matched at this price, except maybe the NFB-28, which is USD200 more expensive. Other than Audio-GD, Cayin or Goldenwave, be ready to spend 2x for a better sound somewhere else. ...
> ...




I think they are about equal. The DAC within the NFB-28 is more resolving, making the combo more balanced. Both are flexible in different ways. The Jotunheim offers a phono module, while the NFB-28 offers coaxial and optical inputs, supports DSD and there's an option to choose Amanero USB384 USB interface. The main consideration, however, is maintenance. If u live in North America, Schiit makes more sense. AGD products while great, can be prones to faults.


----------



## zeissiez

dephezz said:


> appleidappleid said:
> 
> 
> > Hello, I have ordered a Jotunheim with the DAC card. I am now looking for a usb cable (under 1m) to connect to my Windows computer. My budget is around US$50/£40 (I am from the UK). Do you guys have any suggestions?
> ...


 

 I agree that USB cables and coaxial cables do make a difference. But what I suggest is, work from the source, instead of eliminating noise down-stream. If you feed your DAC with a computer, the improvement with a good cable makes little improvement as compared to ditching the computer for a better source. A good source can be as cheap as USD35, is much superior than a computer. Less noise generated, less noise you need to take care down-stream. Once the source is sorted out, then only do optimisation to the cables, interface.....


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Then the K1000 lol


----------



## BarDash

zeissiez said:


> I agree that USB cables and coaxial cables do make a difference. But what I suggest is, work from the source, instead of eliminating noise down-stream. If you feed your DAC with a computer, the improvement with a good cable makes little improvement as compared to ditching the computer for a better source. A good source can be as cheap as USD35, is much superior than a computer. Less noise generated, less noise you need to take care down-stream. Once the source is sorted out, then only do optimisation to the cables, interface.....


 

 For those of us with limited knowledge (I'm speaking of myself what other source would you recommend? Currently I'm running an Asus Mini Vivo w/SSD & Jriver... Mac not an option.


----------



## ld100

dephezz said:


> it does benefit when u plug good usb cable in schitty usb source like laptop/pc w/o galvanic isolation. Go for used AQ carbon - its rly musical one. WW Ultraviolet 7 is mediocre. I feel like AQ Cinnamon is better. Dont go for ADl Formula 2 - fail. Furutech GT2 is good only and worth it.
> AQ carbon, cinnamon are good choices.
> Or wait and save money for used uptone regen with mediocre 10$cable - good choice also.
> Good usb cable dispels some kind of veil and gives clarity to overall sound.
> Just let others who doesnt know this stuff to use their favorite high quality printer cables.




This is the most ridiculous write up I ever read. Without any disrespect, but USB is digital. It is zeros and ones. It either works or it fails. It is not analog. There will be absolutely no difference between the most expensive USB cable and the cheapest USB cable. No difference at all. Signal is passed through in a digital bit stream. A very basic Internet search can explain how it works...


----------



## Hunki Chunki

appleidappleid said:


> Hello, I have ordered a Jotunheim with the DAC card. I am now looking for a usb cable (under 1m) to connect to my Windows computer. My budget is around US$50/£40 (I am from the UK). Do you guys have any suggestions?
> 
> I am looking at the Wireworld Ultraviolet 7 and AudioQuest Cinnamon which both have a similar price. I am also looking at the Furutech ADL Formula 2 and AudioQuest Forest which are a bit cheaper. Which one should I go for?
> 
> Thanks everyone in advance


 
 I got the 1m Pyst USB cable that Schitt sells for 20 bucks, works good enough for me =)
  
 http://schiit.com/products/pyst-cables


----------



## MWSVette

hunki chunki said:


> I got the 1m Pyst USB cable that Schitt sells for 20 bucks, works good enough for me =)
> 
> http://schiit.com/products/pyst-cables


 
 I use the same ones and recommend them highly.
  
 Great cable at a very good price...


----------



## bavinck

ld100 said:


> This is the most ridiculous write up I ever read. Without any disrespect, but USB is digital. It is zeros and ones. It either works or it fails. It is not analog. There will be absolutely no difference between the most expensive USB cable and the cheapest USB cable. No difference at all. Signal is passed through in a digital bit stream. A very basic Internet search can explain how it works...



Welcome to headfi lol


----------



## CarlosUnchained

bavinck said:


> Welcome to headfi lol


 

 I'm pretty new here but I thought people with even more experience would know something as basic as the digital cable scam. 
  
 Spend money in analog cables, they are very subtle to interferences, the shorter the better.
  
 If I'm not wrong (please correct me) the jitter is created in the usb receiver due to a difference in the clock and the signal rate, the wire has nothing to do here, only the source.
  
 100$ in an usb cable? more melodic? more clarity? what? WHAT?


----------



## Dephezz

ld100 said:


> This is the most ridiculous write up I ever read. Without any disrespect, but USB is digital. It is zeros and ones. It either works or it fails. It is not analog. There will be absolutely no difference between the most expensive USB cable and the cheapest USB cable. No difference at all. Signal is passed through in a digital bit stream. A very basic Internet search can explain how it works...


 
 What if i tell you that i dont have to discuss this subject with person who havent ever compared cheap and expensive usb cables with non-galvanic isolated usb and has opinion with no practice? Its like not to believe that frequent consuming processed red meat speeds-up cancer cells synthesis. Its opinion of World Health Organization. But lots of people doesnt know it and dont want to know it, and they all will say that its not true and argue till the end of their days! 
 I know about 1s and 0s but they transfers by analog way, right?  Audio data goes by asynchronous protocol that means that usb controller cant recheck transferred data for errors. Plus poor usb controller is powered by non-fanless noisy power supply. The point is that i was sceptical about this stuff before i grabbed 5 different cables in total cost of 400$ and compared them. Whole my family (not audiophiles at all) noticed audible differences in sound and pointed out the same cable with best results. I asked them to come in and check out one by one.
 There are tons of people which have much more expensive cables and know they have impact.
 But you have your legitimate right to stick to your opinion. All the best, mate and welcome to head-fi


----------



## Vigrith

bardash said:


> For those of us with limited knowledge (I'm speaking of myself what other source would you recommend? Currently I'm running an Asus Mini Vivo w/SSD & Jriver... Mac not an option.


 
  
 Not meaning to get into the whole source/cable/etc discussion but I can absolutely say the microRendu is serious business - I bought it exclusively to test and see if it would wield any improvements over my (very expensive) desktop computer with no expectations whatsoever. It did, maybe not $700 worth because my computer is about as optimized as can be but if you're currently using a laptop or a less high end pc I'd say it should be worth the investment.
  
 Plus folks much more knowledgeable than I that have tested similar devices priced in the several thousands of dollars have said the mRendu actually smokes the competition regardless of tag so if it turns out it doesn't do anything for your chain and/or ears then you can just not bother with streamers/servers any more and spend your money elsewhere.


----------



## watchnerd

dephezz said:


> I know about 1s and 0s but they transfers by analog way, right?  Audio data goes by asynchronous protocol that means that usb controller cant recheck transferred data for errors. Plus poor usb controller is powered by non-fanless noisy power supply. The point is that i was sceptical about this stuff before i grabbed 5 different cables in total cost of 400$ and compared them. Whole my family (not audiophiles at all) noticed audible differences in sound and pointed out the same cable with best results. I asked them to come in and check out one by one.
> There are tons of people which have much more expensive cables and know they have impact.
> But you have your legitimate right to stick to your opinion. All the best, mate and welcome to head-fi


 
  
 Timing errors are jitter.  You can measure it.
  
 If it's abnormally high, get an anti-jitter device, not a cable.


----------



## CarlosUnchained

dephezz said:


> I know about 1s and 0s but they transfers by analog way, right?


 
  
 What is for you a digital transmission then?


----------



## ld100

dephezz said:


> What if i tell you that i dont have to discuss this subject with person who havent ever compared cheap and expensive usb cables with non-galvanic isolated usb and has opinion with no practice? Its like not to believe that frequent consuming processed red meat speeds-up cancer cells synthesis. Its opinion of World Health Organization. But lots of people doesnt know it and dont want to know it, and they all will say that its not true and argue till the end of their days!
> I know about 1s and 0s but they transfers by analog way, right?  Audio data goes by asynchronous protocol that means that usb controller cant recheck transferred data for errors. Plus poor usb controller is powered by non-fanless noisy power supply. The point is that i was sceptical about this stuff before i grabbed 5 different cables in total cost of 400$ and compared them. Whole my family (not audiophiles at all) noticed audible differences in sound and pointed out the same cable with best results. I asked them to come in and check out one by one.
> There are tons of people which have much more expensive cables and know they have impact.
> But you have your legitimate right to stick to your opinion. All the best, mate and welcome to head-fi


 
  
  
 As a person who has a degree in computer science and extensive work history in the industry I will tell you that you have absolutely no clue what you talking about.
  
 "compared cheap and expensive usb cables with non-galvanic isolated usb and has opinion with no practice?" this has absolutely no meaning and totally ridiculous. The most expensive usb cable will at the end perform exactly the same as a cheap 3 dollar cable. Read carefully my friend. EXACTLY THE SAME! It is a digital cable with ones and zeroes. No matter how you slice and dice it there is absolutely no difference. It it comes in on one end as a one it exits on the other as one. Comes in as zero it exits as zero. It you rub it with snake oil all over and galvanize the hell out of it it will not make any difference. 
  
 Anyone who notices difference between two properly functioning USB cables on audio equipment simply doesn't have any understanding of digital technology. This is my last reply to this my friend...


----------



## Dephezz

carlosunchained said:


> What is for you a digital transmission then?


 
 I dont have any purpose to remember such things. I just rely on my hearing. I have another things to spend money on, but i know that i've spent my 50$ on AQ carbon for audible effect. The most revealing was QED Reference, but highs became too sharp for me as i listen to EDM mostly.
 BTW I tested them all on internal Jodies DAC and DX80 
  
Fundamentals of USB Audio
The USB cable myth​
Gordon Rankin on why USB audio quality varies


----------



## watchnerd

dephezz said:


> I dont have any purpose to remember such things. *I just rely on my hearing*. I have another things to spend money on, *but i know that i've spent my 50$ on AQ carbon for audible effect*. The most revealing was QED Reference, but highs became too sharp for me as i listen to EDM mostly.
> BTW I tested them all on internal Jodies DAC and DX80


 
  
 Did you conduct a double-blind ABX test?
  
 If not, you don't know how much placebo effect is determining what you hear.


----------



## drews

ld100 said:


> This is the most ridiculous write up I ever read. Without any disrespect, but USB is digital. It is zeros and ones. It either works or it fails. It is not analog. There will be absolutely no difference between the most expensive USB cable and the cheapest USB cable. No difference at all. Signal is passed through in a digital bit stream. A very basic Internet search can explain how it works...


 
  
 USB audio does not have error correction I believe since the timing of the sample data sent to a USB DAC is too important (unlike the data sent to USB devices like printers which can afford wait for errors to be detected, corrected, and re-sent).  Since different USB cables have different shielding/length/connecter properties it makes sense that different cables can contribute to greater or fewer errors generated and therefore how the analog conversion in the DAC sounds...  Personally I just use optical cables when I can since they've fixed the clicking/popping issues I've had over the years...


----------



## ld100

drews said:


> USB audio does not have error correction I believe since the timing of the sample data sent to a USB DAC is too important (unlike the data sent to USB devices like printers which can afford wait for errors to be detected, corrected, and re-sent).  Since different USB cables have different shielding/length/connecter properties it makes sense that different cables can contribute to greater or fewer errors generated and therefore how the analog conversion in the DAC sounds...  Personally I just use optical cables when I can since they've fixed the clicking/popping issues I've had over the years...


 
  
  
 Even if some bits are dropped and error correction is not applied that would not result in sound quality degradation that would be noticeable by a human ear.
  
 Consider your cable box and TV which in most cases are connected by a very cheap USB cable supplied by cable company these days. There will be absolutely no difference in your picture quality no matter how many USB cables you try. As long as you have properly functioning cable. If some want to live in some bizarre world where USB cables make difference in sound quality it is their choice. Sure in some strange situation bits can get messed up. But it is not something that is cheap USB cable vs. expensive USB cable. It is not analog cable technology. It is something not functioning properly. 
  
 Even with analog claims that cables make audible difference are highly questionable... But there is science that does support that there is difference. I can see that very trained ear can hear it. In reality in a blind test 99% of people will not recognize a difference between a $1000 cables and cheap wire hangers from local fry cleaning. To most it will sound exactly the same. But as far as USB that is just lunacy...


----------



## watchnerd

drews said:


> USB audio does not have error correction I believe since the timing of the sample data sent to a USB DAC is too important (unlike the data sent to USB devices like printers which can afford wait for errors to be detected, corrected, and re-sent).  Since different USB cables have different shielding/length/connecter properties it makes sense that different cables can contribute to greater or fewer errors generated and therefore how the analog conversion in the DAC sounds...  Personally I just use optical cables when I can since they've fixed the clicking/popping issues I've had over the years...


 
  
 If there are a lot of data loss errors in transmission, you get digital distortion, which can manifest as drop-outs or hacksaw buzzing noise.
  
 What you don't get from data loss (jitter is a different story) are subtle things like increases in soundstage.  Thus the subtle changes in timbre, soundstaging, etc, claimed by some USB cables are lacking a solid hypothesis to explain the claimed phenomena.


----------



## drews

ld100 said:


> Even if some bits are dropped and error correction is not applied that would not result in sound quality degradation that would be noticeable by a human ear.
> 
> Consider your cable box and TV which in most cases are connected by a very cheap USB cable supplied by cable company these days. There will be absolutely no difference in your picture quality no matter how many USB cables you try. As long as you have properly functioning cable. If some want to live in some bizarre world where USB cables make difference in sound quality it is their choice. Sure in some strange situation bits can get messed up. But it is not something that is cheap USB cable vs. expensive USB cable. It is not analog cable technology. It is something not functioning properly.
> 
> Even with analog claims that cables make audible difference are highly questionable... But there is science that does support that there is difference. I can see that very trained ear can hear it. In reality in a blind test 99% of people will not recognize a difference between a $1000 cables and cheap wire hangers from local fry cleaning. To most it will sound exactly the same. But as far as USB that is just lunacy...


 
  
 I suspect you're right that in most cases cable differences are not detectable (you meant HDMI cables I assume?), I just wanted to point out that USB=digital=bitperfect is not quite accurate specifically when in comes to USB audio.  When you say there is absolutely no difference between cables I think that's not technically correct (I wish I had a 50-foot unshielded USB cable to try out).  Since there is no error correction in place, and you say that cheap USB cables cannot influence the number of errors, do you have a source for your assertion that errors don't actually happen in the real world?
  
 P.S. I don't actually own any audiophile cables, USB or otherwise...


----------



## ld100

drews said:


> I suspect you're right that in most cases cable differences are not detectable (you meant HDMI cables I assume?), I just wanted to point out that USB=digital=bitperfect is not quite accurate specifically when in comes to USB audio.  When you say there is absolutely no difference between cables I think that's not technically correct (I wish I had a 50-foot unshielded USB cable to try out).  Since there is no error correction in place, and you say that cheap USB cables cannot influence the number of errors, do you have a source for your assertion that errors don't actually happen in the real world?
> 
> P.S. I don't actually own any audiophile cables, USB or otherwise...


 
  
 Yes. I meant HDMI. But we are talking about USB...
  
 My source of my assertion:
  
 Coming from a person with degree in computer science:
  
 Create a large file on your computer... Connect external hard disk with USB cable... Copy to hard disk... Copy same file back... Check for differences. FILES WILL BE EXACTLY THE SAME. Bit perfect. Small file or a very large file. If your system is working properly everything to the last bit will be the same,
  
 You can repeat that 1000 times and at the end files will still be exactly the same. To the last bit. You can talk about error correction and this and that. But there is absolutely no difference if you connect your computer to your drive using the cheapest USB vs a very expensive USB cable. It is a stream of bits and at the end they function the same. When you connect external DAC to a computer using USB cable it is the same thing. Nothing different about it. Stream of bits...
  
 So whoever claims that they can hear difference with cheap USB cables simply says that cheap USB cable do not function properly or as properly as more expensive ones. Lunacy.


----------



## MWSVette

So what about that Jotunheim...


----------



## drews

ld100 said:


> Yes. I meant HDMI. But we are talking about USB...
> 
> My source of my assertion:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, I have a CS degree too and I've implemented error correction and detection, worked on SCSI device drivers etc., maybe that's why I'm interested in the details.  Your analogy between USB DACs and USB hard drives is flawed though because hard drives use a reliable USB protocol (bulk) but USB DACs use a different non-error-correcting protocol - there is indeed something different about it despite your claim to the contrary.  Does that mean USB cables sound different?  I share your skepticism...  Anyway, this is off topic so we should move on...


----------



## ld100

drews said:


> Yeah, I have a CS degree too and I've implemented error correction and detection, worked on SCSI device drivers etc., maybe that's why I'm interested in the details.  Your analogy between USB DACs and USB hard drives is flawed though because hard drives use a reliable USB protocol (bulk) but USB DACs use a different non-error-correcting protocol - there is indeed something different about it despite your claim to the contrary.  Does that mean USB cables sound different?  I share your skepticism...  Anyway, this is off topic so we should move on...


 
  
 I am simplifying it as much as I can. I know exactly what you saying... But error correction or no error correction there no way USB cable can alter sound. It is as simple as that.


----------



## jimmers

drews said:


> ... Does that mean USB cables sound different?  I share your skepticism...


 
 My favourite audiophile explanation of USB cable differences, the "Narrow Bits" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (no,really) 
 P.S. don't have a mouthful of coffee when you read it, I am not responsible for the consequences 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 https://www.telluriumq.com/extra_resources/documents/black_usb_review.pdf


----------



## ld100

jimmers said:


> My favourite audiophile explanation of USB cable differences, the "Narrow Bits"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 OMG! How do they even come up with that?


----------



## GearMe

_Feeling Jittery? Can't seem to Connect? Your Mojo (or Bifrost) not what it used to be?_

*Questions about Cables??? Ask the Cable Guy!*


----------



## Mr Rick

ld100 said:


> OMG! How do they even come up with that?


 
  
"*There's* *a* *sucker* *born* *every* *minute*" is a phrase most likely spoken by David Hannum, in criticism of both P. T. Barnum, an American showman of the mid 1800s, and his customers. The phrase is often credited to Barnum himself. It means "Many people are gullible, and we can expect this to continue."


----------



## blasjw

As far as the bits are bits argument goes, I side with John Darko whose opinions on the matter are summed up nicely here:
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2016/09/ifi-spdif-ipurifier-entry-level-pricing-next-level-results/
  
 The best part is this:
  
Of course, not everyone will necessarily hear it this way. As Chris Connaker wryly opined over at Computer Audiophile, _“People who believe bits are bits and all digital audio must sound the same will be incredibly pleased with the Chromecast Audio.”_
If that’s you, time to alight here.


----------



## jimmers

ld100 said:


> OMG! How do they even come up with that?


 
 The author, when called on it, blamed the Manufacturer's website as his source - but the only reference to "Narrow Bits" on their site was his review (?).
 Unbelievably the review is still on the Tellurium Q site without a disclaimer.


----------



## Frode Roed

When reading some of these posts I understand that basic understanding of electronics is not something they teach in computer science lessons.
What goes down a cable is not a bunch of Ones and Zeroes but a varying voltage (e.g. 5V TTL square pulse) that is NOT insensitive to variations in cable capacitance, inductance, etc.
In the receiving end in many instances there exist a Schmitt-trigger that decides if the rising and trailing edge is above or below the voltage threshold set. There also exist a hysteresis to include in this binary equation. If you transfer a file the file will remain in bit perfect stage, however if you stream data as analog signals (because this is actually what you do) you might risk getting timing or phase errors which our ears are extremely sensitive to. A trained conductor ear can detect timing errors down to as little as a 5üs.
Now, for USB, packets of data are transferred and recreated in the receiving end, so the elaborations above is not as critical as for e.g. S/PDIF over coax.
However, I still think that bold statements in one direction or another needs to be backed up with all aspects that matters for transmitters, receivers and cable in-between before ruling out whether significant influences that might affect our audible perception exist.


----------



## Mirakoolz

if you're going to upgrade your USB Cable, dont forget to isolate and shield the  PCB Tracings on your motherboard with some C-Section lead conduit from your chosen USB Port back to the Motherboard Chipset. im not sure what the thickness requirement will be but considering the traces are very close to each other, it may prove difficult. dont forget it must be done on both sides of the motherboard as well. only then will your AQ cable can sound more musical, meaning you'll hear instruments that arent actually in the recording.


----------



## Mirakoolz

also, if you listen to any streaming services such as spotify or tidal (Oh No! thats so unaudiophile-like), consider upgrading your ethernet cable to one of AQ's great solutions. you want to make sure all them bits are coming from your modem to your computer's ethernet port with the highest fidelity possible to ensure maximum musicality
 http://www.audioquest.com/ethernet/vodka
  
 but then further examination and investigation is required. you'll soon discover that the tracings on your Modem's PCB need to be shielded with LEAD C-Section conduits as well - on both sides of the PCB. once this is addressed, we must ensure that your phone line cable or coax cable from modem back to the wall is of the highest quality as well to ensure our modem is feed the best signal as to not pose as a bottleneck to our recently shielded Modem and subsequent AQ ethernet cable.
  
 ah but then you say, "what about the phone line wiring within my wall back to the local exchange?" for which you can answer with another question such as "what about the wiring between my exchange back to my ISP, to their optical network, the undersea cabling, then ultimately the streaming service's datacentre cabling"
  
 hmmm, AQ needs to diversity into IT!


----------



## ld100

blasjw said:


> As far as the bits are bits argument goes, I side with John Darko whose opinions on the matter are summed up nicely here:
> http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2016/09/ifi-spdif-ipurifier-entry-level-pricing-next-level-results/
> 
> The best part is this:
> ...


 
  
  
 But we are not talking about processing. "_all digital audio must sound the same_" is about processing digital signal. There are different ways to process. Different algorithms... USB cable does not have any processing. It does not alter data unless it is malfunctioning. What comes in on one end comes out on another. If there is data loss that pretty much means that cable is faulty. And it is the same for cheapest and the most expensive USB cables.
  
 There is no point of beating this dead horse any further... Personally I am not trying to convert anyone and everyone certainly is entitled to his opinion. You are more than welcome to spend any kinds of money on USB cables you wish.


----------



## zeissiez

slow_aetk said:


> humblesquad said:
> 
> 
> > Does this mean you feel NFB-28's amp part is better than Jot? I'd like to hear more about Jot vs AGD amps (NFB-28, NFB-1AMP etc)
> ...


 

  
 I didn't have the NFB-28 with me, but I borrowed an old AGD Compass 2 which was single ended in and out. I compared the amps of the Jotunheim and the Compass 2. The difference between them was small. Here are the differences: 1. The Compass 2 had a wider soundstage, and an equally holographic soundstage, which surprised me, given that the Jotunheim was balanced in and out. 2. The Jotunheim treble is tastefully rolled off, which partly explained why the unmodded HD800 was ok with the amp. Compass 2 trebles were more extended. 3. Both equally detailed and dynamic. 
 Side notes: 1.The Vega which is a delta-sigma amp was less harsh than the AGD Ref5.32. So it's all down to implementation. The Vega had more stable sound images too. 2. The Jotunheim was dead quiet with the Oriolus IEM, very nice match. 3. Raspberry Pi 2 as source was clearly superior than MacBook Pro and X7, more solid images, and more air between voices. I don't know how the 1s and 0s arrived at the DACs that made them sound different, but they sounded different, easily audible within seconds.
  
 Cheers


----------



## BarDash

vigrith said:


> Not meaning to get into the whole source/cable/etc discussion but I can absolutely say the microRendu is serious business - I bought it exclusively to test and see if it would wield any improvements over my (very expensive) desktop computer with no expectations whatsoever. It did, maybe not $700 worth because my computer is about as optimized as can be but if you're currently using a laptop or a less high end pc I'd say it should be worth the investment.
> 
> Plus folks much more knowledgeable than I that have tested similar devices priced in the several thousands of dollars have said the mRendu actually smokes the competition regardless of tag so if it turns out it doesn't do anything for your chain and/or ears then you can just not bother with streamers/servers any more and spend your money elsewhere.



Thank you Vigirth I'm never sure quite where to find this information.


----------



## ld100

frode roed said:


> When reading some of these posts I understand that basic understanding of electronics is not something they teach in computer science lessons.
> What goes down a cable is not a bunch of Ones and Zeroes but a varying voltage (e.g. 5V TTL square pulse) that is NOT insensitive to variations in cable capacitance, inductance, etc.
> In the receiving end in many instances there exist a Schmitt-trigger that decides if the rising and trailing edge is above or below the voltage threshold set. There also exist a hysteresis to include in this binary equation. If you transfer a file the file will remain in bit perfect stage, however if you stream data as analog signals (because this is actually what you do) you might risk getting timing or phase errors which our ears are extremely sensitive to. A trained conductor ear can detect timing errors down to as little as a 5üs.
> Now, for USB, packets of data are transferred and recreated in the receiving end, so the elaborations above is not as critical as for e.g. S/PDIF over coax.
> However, I still think that bold statements in one direction or another needs to be backed up with all aspects that matters for transmitters, receivers and cable in-between before ruling out whether significant influences that might affect our audible perception exist.


 
  
  
 Just because you think you know does not mean you do my friend... Not sure how USB in your understanding is "stream data as analog signals". It is not analog period. It is digital. Bits and zeroes.
  
 Before it gets any further here are few good reads:
  
 1.
 http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/rowe-s-and-columns/4421042/Can-You-Hear-the-Difference-
  
 2. 
 http://www.edn.com/design/consumer/4403381/USB-audio-simplified
  
  
 But you are more than welcome to buy a $1000 dollar USB cable. And I also have a bridge for sale if you need one...


----------



## Mirakoolz

ld100 said:


> Just because you think you know does not mean you do my friend... Not sure how USB in your understanding is "stream data as analog signals". It is not analog period. It is digital. Bits and zeroes.


 
 this is not correct
  
 digital signals are representations on a analog waveform
 analog signal means a continuous one.. just like how vinyl records dont have any breaks in their grooves
  
 a digital receiver will receive a analog waveform (a signal without any breaks) and pick out the digital representations on this waveform based on its High/Low (1/0) threshold


----------



## ld100

mirakoolz said:


> this is not correct
> 
> digital signals are representations on a analog waveform
> analog signal means a continuous one.. just like how vinyl records dont have any breaks in their grooves
> ...


 
  
 Technically the implementation is analog signal... Data is digital: bits. Digital data is not altered by USB cable. Buying more expensive USB cable will not make what comes out more musical, spacious, fuller, warmer, sweeter, wider. If you want to argue for the sake of arguing you are correct that current is analog. But data that is passed by USB cable is digital. Please, take a look at the article in the link I posted above that explains how it works.


----------



## Mirakoolz

ld100 said:


> Technically the implementation is analog signal... Data is digital: bits. Digital data is not altered by USB cable. Buying more expensive USB cable will not make what comes out more musical, spacious, fuller, warmer, sweeter, wider. If you want to argue for the sake of arguing you are correct that current is analog. But data that is passed by USB cable is digital. Please, take a look at the article in the link I posted above that explains how it works.


 
Thank you. My comment was in regards to yours where u mentioned there's nothing analog about a digital signal but you've since cleared that up

See my last few posts - you'll see I'm not a believer in digital cabling


----------



## earnmyturns

I have a no-DAC Jotunheim fed by a Bimby. I've been able to hear improvements by changing the digital side upstream of the Bimby, but I doubt they have anything to do with the shape and timing of the electrical pulses encoding the bits. As some have noted above, basic digital transmission is not too sensitive to the exact electrical representation of the bits. What varies a lot more is the electrical noise coming down USB or coax from the digital source to the DAC. Garden variety computers don't pay much attention to what electrical junk they put on USB outputs provided that the bits are still readable. Mediocre power supplies and heavy non-music computing create a lot of high-frequency junk that aliases into lower, audible frequencies in nonlinear circuitry. It's a hard challenge for the DAC to keep out all that junk from its analog side, so it's best if your digital source is designed to keep the junk to a minimum. I've heard definite improvements over previous setups with the Sonore microRendu powered with good supplies, especially the new Uptone LPS-1. That way, I get excellent quality for $1500 on the digital side (cheap Intel NUC music server, microRendu and LPS-1). No need for fancy USB cables, Schiit PYST is fine.


----------



## Hunki Chunki

I do wonder though, with the separate DACs for each channel, how that helps (lessen the load on each? etc)
  
 Seeing how the higher priced Schitt DACs have up to TWO DACs PER channel for a total of 4.


----------



## Frode Roed

mirakoolz said:


> Thank you. My comment was in regards to yours where u mentioned there's nothing analog about a digital signal but you've since cleared that up
> 
> See my last few posts - you'll see I'm not a believer in digital cabling



I think the misconception here is that USB delivers packets of data.
To say that zeroes and ones are delivered over a cable (not talking about Toslink lightpulses) and not analog voltage representing those bits puts a smile on my face.


----------



## BarDash

A noob to Head Fi's impression on the Jot/Modi Multibit: Having owned both now for a couple of months I can unequivocally say that I really love this combo. I'm trading off between a HD800S & Ether C both balanced.
The Ether C to my ears seems warmer whilst the HD800S seems overall more musical and enjoyable to listen to especially since I added a Wywires Platinum balanced cable.
This is the closest I've come to really recommending anything on my short time on Head Fi so pardon me If I don't know all the proper terminology.... 
One day, funds pending I'd love to try a Yggy with the Jot.
My WA7 fireflies 2nd gen has been totally neglected since purchasing this combo


----------



## earnmyturns

hunki chunki said:


> I do wonder though, with the separate DACs for each channel, how that helps (lessen the load on each? etc)
> 
> Seeing how the higher priced Schitt DACs have up to TWO DACs PER channel for a total of 4.


 
 Schiit uses instrumentation-grade R2R chips from Analog Devices, not the much more common delta-sigma chips in most other DACs. The R2R chips implement single channel 16 bit depth conversion. The Modi and Bifrost multibit DACs convert only the top 16 bits of the incoming PCM samples, so they need two chips, one per channel. The Gungnir and the Yggdrasil keep more bits, so they need two per channel, one for the higher-order bits and the another for the lower-order bits. The delta-sigma DAC chips used in most other DACs are much simpler so they can pack the whole process for two channels into a single chip (at some cost in quality), although higher-end delta-sigma DACs typically use one chip for each channel to improve conversion quality. There are also some very pricey R2R DACs with discrete resistor ladders rather than DAC chips, but that's a whole other story.


----------



## jimmers

earnmyturns said:


> ...The R2R chips implement single channel 16 bit depth conversion. ...
> 
> ...The Gungnir and the Yggdrasil keep more bits, so they need two per channel, one for the higher-order bits and the another for the lower-order bits...


 
 Sorry, but -
  
 Bimby and Mimby use a single 16 bit 2 channel DAC (AD5547)
  
 Gungnir and the Yggdrasil use a single channel DAC (AD5781 18 bits, AD5791 20 bits respectively). They have 2 chips per channel for balanced output.


----------



## earnmyturns

jimmers said:


> Sorry, but -
> 
> Bimby and Mimby use a single 16 bit 2 channel DAC (AD5547)
> 
> Gungnir and the Yggdrasil use a single channel DAC (AD5781 18 bits, AD5791 20 bits respectively). They have 2 chips per channel for balanced output.


 
 Groan, never try to remember these details from an obviously fuzzy memory. Do you remember how the Yggy gets 21 bits effective with those 20 bit parts?


----------



## ray-dude

earnmyturns said:


> Groan, never try to remember these details from an obviously fuzzy memory. Do you remember how the Yggy gets 21 bits effective with those 20 bit parts?


 
  
 I'd love to read up on the gory details on Bimby/Gimby/Yggy DACs.  Alas, the discussion around these DACs is so rich, that search is not your friend, and the AD product sheets don't help much, since they don't have a reference design for these sorts of MB audio DACs.  If anyone has favorited some key posts, please PM (I'll be wading through search results this weekend)


----------



## Hunki Chunki

earnmyturns said:


> Groan, never try to remember these details from an obviously fuzzy memory. Do you remember how the Yggy gets 21 bits effective with those 20 bit parts?


 
 Always a learning experience. Which makes it fun. haha


----------



## jimmers

earnmyturns said:


> ... Do you remember how the Yggy gets 21 bits effective with those 20 bit parts?


 
 It is a mathematical aggregate of chips each running at 20-bit (don't ask me how, if I told you I'd have to kill you) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Edit: A recent review of the Modi multi in Hi-Fi World the editor was crying about it's 96dB SNR, "This is well below CD that nowadays comes in at 102dB", although 96dB gives an ENOB of 16 bits; he was used to Sigma Delta chips which usually have a balanced out per channel - aggregating to an ENOB of 17 bits.
  
 (ENOB, effective number of bits)


----------



## CarlosUnchained

zeissiez said:


> Raspberry Pi 2 as source was clearly superior than MacBook Pro and X7


 

 Awesome gear there!
  
 Just to know, have you done an ABX test? Otherwise the comparison is pretty much useless. 
  
 Literally there's no way the difference in voltage that 1s and 0s represent arrive in other way unless your house is a huge transformer. They arrive or they don't. Other thing is that you could have a jitter problem between some of the sources listed there and the DAC receivers.


----------



## ToddRaymond

Remember kids, if you possess a degree in something, you are granted full access to everyone else's perceptions of all things, sound/music/art/beauty, and so on.

"Just because you think you know does not mean you do [...]" - hmm, good advice.


----------



## zeissiez

carlosunchained said:


> zeissiez said:
> 
> 
> > Raspberry Pi 2 as source was clearly superior than MacBook Pro and X7
> ...


 
  
 No scientific tests here. Just me, my brother and a friend. All of us agreed the Pi 2 was the best source, the darker background and more solid imaging were quite easily noticeable. But as always, take head-fi with a grain of salt. Pi 2 is a 50 bucks investment, set it up, hide it behind your DAC and forget all about it, use your phone to control your play, simple, neat and nice. I whole heartedly recommend it.


----------



## CarlosUnchained

turdski said:


> Remember kids, if you possess a degree in something, you are granted full access to everyone else's perceptions of all things, sound/music/art/beauty, and so on.
> 
> "Just because you think you know does not mean you do [...]" - hmm, good advice.




Perceptions are highly biased. A computer isn't that much.


----------



## JCYC5

turdski said:


> Remember kids, if you possess a degree in something, you are granted full access to everyone else's perceptions of all things, sound/music/art/beauty, and so on.
> 
> "Just because you think you know does not mean you do [...]" - hmm, good advice.


 
  
 Uhhhh... no.
  
 If you possess a degree in something, you understand the actual theory, background, and implementation of that subject (at least in this case).
  
 Because something is PHYSICALLY not capable of something in a scientific manner, it therefore negates a lay person and his/her family from claiming that subjective differences exist.
  
 Science dictates that better USB cables = better sounds is much like faith healing = real cure for real diseases.


----------



## ToddRaymond

My post was in reference to the listener... you know, the point of all this.  Speaking of which, this music isn't gonna listen to itself.
  
 So, Jotunheim.  Good amp, huh?
  
 Addendum:
  


jcyc5 said:


> If you possess a degree in something, you understand the actual theory, background, and implementation of that subject (at least in this case).


 
  
 And yet, the individual who was foaming at the mouth, attacking others, and who was so desperate to be right, failed to know how USB *audio* transmission actually worked.  If someone wants to spend x, y, or z on this, that, or the other in this hobby, why lose sleep over it?
  
 My point was meant to be a reminder that we're all having our own subjective experience here.


----------



## CarlosUnchained

zeissiez said:


> No scientific tests here. Just me, my brother and a friend. All of us agreed the Pi 2 was the best source, the darker background and more solid imaging were quite easily noticeable. But as always, take head-fi with a grain of salt. Pi 2 is a 50 bucks investment, set it up, hide it behind your DAC and forget all about it, use your phone to control your play, simple, neat and nice. I whole heartedly recommend it.


 

 Thanks for the nice answer despite I'm questioning your method. People get salty so easily these days.
  
 "No scientific tests here". That's the problem. When you do a comparison based on your perception alone leads to nothing unless is something super obvious. Our brain is capable of doing awesome things, but it's very easy to trick it as well.
  
 It's not only that you believe you are hearing differences, you are actually experiencing them, but that feeling is created by the brain and only your brain. Don't underestimate the placebo effect.
  
 An ABX test is the most basic you can do to at least state with some authority that there's an actual difference. Sorry, I don't trust your perception, neither mine.
  
 By the way, I'm interested in building a Pi stream machine as well, any resources to do so?


----------



## zeissiez

> By the way, I'm interested in building a Pi stream machine as well, any resources to do so?


 
  
  
 Check these sites: www.volumio.org or www.runeaudio.com. Detailed info available there.


----------



## tunes

I want to use my PQ1R as a server for an external DAC when at home (Schiit Mobi multibit DAC). I bought the cable shown below but not sure if it will work. I also don't know how to make the external DAC communicate with the QP1R via TOSLINK digital. Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## franzdom

If your PQ1R or QP1R or whatever it is has a mini optical output then this should work fine. 
 If not then back to the drawing board. 
  
 The non-mini end should work in your Schiit.


----------



## Tuneslover

I'm happy to report that my Jotenheim does not POP on start up.


----------



## 3ggerhappy

Just got my Jot guys, and wondering what volume you guys are listening in, my setup is using the DPX1 to the Jot Dac then listening with the HD800S. Volume pot is on 10 o clock in playing cd quality files, i need to raise it to 11(even raising it to 12 on some recordings) when listening to 24/192 hdr vinyl rips to get to my listening level. This is on high gain and using balanced.
  
 Just curious since it is stated that the Jot has so much power int it, and maybe its my hearing so chime in guys


----------



## MWSVette

3ggerhappy said:


> Just got my Jot guys, and wondering what volume you guys are listening in, my setup is using the DPX1 to the Jot Dac then listening with the HD800S. Volume pot is on 10 o clock in playing cd quality files, i need to raise it to 11(even raising it to 12 on some recordings) when listening to 24/192 hdr vinyl rips to get to my listening level. This is on high gain and using balanced.
> 
> Just curious since it is stated that the Jot has so much power int it, and maybe its my hearing so chime in guys


 
 Single ended has only about a third of the power of balanced. 2500mw compared to 7500mw.  That said 2500mw is more than enough for most headphones.
  
 On single ended cans I am at similar volume levels.  Somewhere between 10-12 on high gain...


----------



## bavinck

turdski said:


> My post was in reference to the listener... you know, the point of all this.  Speaking of which, this music isn't gonna listen to itself.
> 
> So, Jotunheim.  Good amp, huh?
> 
> ...



I don't think you understood that conversation if that was your take away.


----------



## BarDash

3ggerhappy said:


> Just got my Jot guys, and wondering what volume you guys are listening in, my setup is using the DPX1 to the Jot Dac then listening with the HD800S. Volume pot is on 10 o clock in playing cd quality files, i need to raise it to 11(even raising it to 12 on some recordings) when listening to 24/192 hdr vinyl rips to get to my listening level. This is on high gain and using balanced.
> 
> Just curious since it is stated that the Jot has so much power int it, and maybe its my hearing so chime in guys



Between 10 n 1 usually.


----------



## ld100

jcyc5 said:


> Uhhhh... no.
> 
> If you possess a degree in something, you understand the actual theory, background, and implementation of that subject (at least in this case).
> 
> ...




Are we still beating that horse with a stick? 

Let's be real people! If your whole family tells you that they can hear the difference between your new expensive USB cables all that means is that they all think that you are nuts and just tell you things they think you want to hear.

I hope the original poster will not take this as an offense. Just reality check...


----------



## MWSVette

ld100 said:


> *Are we still beating that horse with a stick?*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Yes for nearly 4 pages now...


----------



## lugnut

I would never be so Bold to try to tell someone that they do or they don't hear what they say they hear. I also agree 1 page of this stuff is enough let alone 4 pages.


----------



## ToddRaymond

ld100 said:


> Are we still beating that horse with a stick?


 
  
 Please remember though, it was you who kicked off that entire discussion (see post 2325), with your, "This is the most ridiculous write up I ever read" line, in the first place.  Which is totally fine!  You expressed yourself–I'm glad you did!  And someone else was just trying to help out another forum member by relaying their experiences, even if you thought they were absolute rubbish, for whatever reasons (however valid/relevant).  Problems only start happening when one individual begins to think that they're more "right" than another.  If we were designing audio equipment here, then yes, adhering to the laws of physics would override everything else.  Experiencing music is another matter though.  You can't measure consciousness (and at this point in time, little is understood about it... though "we" think we know everything).  Yes, for a plane to fly, the science matters, but that doesn't mean that every passenger on that flight is having the same experience.
  


bavinck said:


> I don't think you understood that conversation if that was your take away.


 

 Oh okay then.


----------



## appleidappleid

I also use Jot with HD800s on balanced out. I only turn up to around 9 to 10 o clock.


----------



## bavinck

Jot balanced really makes the aq nighthawk sing. Very nice pairing.


----------



## ld100

turdski said:


> Please remember though, it was you who kicked off that entire discussion (see post 2325), with your, "This is the most ridiculous write up I ever read" line, in the first place.  Which is totally fine!  You expressed yourself–I'm glad you did!  And someone else was just trying to help out another forum member by relaying their experiences, even if you thought they were absolute rubbish, for whatever reasons (however valid/relevant).  Problems only start happening when one individual begins to think that they're more "right" than another.  If we were designing audio equipment here, then yes, adhering to the laws of physics would override everything else.  Experiencing music is another matter though.  You can't measure consciousness (and at this point in time, little is understood about it... though "we" think we know everything).  Yes, for a plane to fly, the science matters, but that doesn't mean that every passenger on that flight is having the same experience.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh okay then.




My fault I guess. My apologies. 

I personally have not encountered anyone yet who could tell a difference between Monoprice cables and Monster cables in audio set up. I had seen few people claiming that lossless is far superior to mp3s and in a blind test could not tell a difference... When people are told that they need to spend big money on things like USB cable to me it feels wrong I guess...


----------



## JoeKickass

I love the origin story of the Jot... a circuit topology that defies standard logic but measures better than anything Schiit made before!
  
 I have a feeling I'll be giving my brother my Magni 2U this Christmas if the Jot lives up to it's reputation. It can't arrive soon enough!
  
  
 Quote:


carlosunchained said:


> An ABX test is the most basic you can do to at least state with some authority that there's an actual difference.


 
  
 Although a bit confrontational, you speak words of wisdom, I like this "ABX test", I had just been going back and forth to compare equipment but I like the idea of trying to identify while "blindfolded" to rule out placebo effects:
  
_"An *ABX test* is a method of comparing two choices A subject is presented with two known samples (sample A, the first reference, and sample B, the second reference) followed by one unknown sample X that is randomly selected from either A or B. The subject is then required to identify X as either A or B. If X cannot be identified reliably with a low p-value in a predetermined number of trials, then the null hypothesis cannot be rejected and it cannot be proven that there is a perceptible difference between A and B."_
_- Wikipedia_


----------



## Letmebefrank

ld100 said:


> My fault I guess. My apologies.
> 
> I personally have not encountered anyone yet who could tell a difference between Monoprice cables and Monster cables in audio set up. I had seen few people claiming that lossless is far superior to mp3s and in a blind test could not tell a difference... When people are told that they need to spend big money on things like USB cable to me it feels wrong I guess...


 
  
 To be fair, monster cables aren't anything special anyway. I dont believe in digital cable upgrades past a certain point (you want good shielding and a decent gauge conductor for your application), but monoprice are probably better than monster as far as construction and quality goes.


----------



## Tuneslover

3ggerhappy said:


> Just got my Jot guys, and wondering what volume you guys are listening in, my setup is using the DPX1 to the Jot Dac then listening with the HD800S. Volume pot is on 10 o clock in playing cd quality files, i need to raise it to 11(even raising it to 12 on some recordings) when listening to 24/192 hdr vinyl rips to get to my listening level. This is on high gain and using balanced.
> 
> Just curious since it is stated that the Jot has so much power int it, and maybe its my hearing so chime in guys




I spent the afternoon over at an electronics friend's place. He converted my stock HD650 cable to balanced. He cut the 1/4 plug end about a foot back and put a female 4 pin balanced connector on it producing me a balanced to SE adaptor cable. Then he put a male 4 pin balanced connector on the freshly snipped stock HD650 cable. I also brought along my stock HE500 cable which he converted with another 4 pin balanced connector.

So for $20 I now have both of headphones converted to balanced, plus an adaptor cable to switch to SE if I so choose with my Jotunheim or LP G109S or Vali 2.

So balanced I have the HE500 at 11:00 and it's about as loud as I'd care to listen to them. The HD650's are set a little lower, around 10:00 to be as loud as the HE500's were. 

As for this prolonged cable discussion, perhaps a separate thread should be created (if one doesn't already exist).


----------



## drews

Hmm, I'm really enjoying my LCD-2 (aluminum) out of this unit (balanced) - more than the Focal Elear (single ended for now) - I really wasn't expecting that...


----------



## Mirakoolz

tuneslover said:


> I'm happy to report that my Jotenheim does not POP on start up.


 
  
 mine doesnt pop through the headphones during startup or shutdown (yes, im THAT guy who doesnt leave it on 24/7)
 there are relay clicks however, but thats because theres relays inside.


----------



## Mirakoolz

3ggerhappy said:


> Just got my Jot guys, and wondering what volume you guys are listening in, my setup is using the DPX1 to the Jot Dac then listening with the HD800S. Volume pot is on 10 o clock in playing cd quality files, i need to raise it to 11(even raising it to 12 on some recordings) when listening to 24/192 hdr vinyl rips to get to my listening level. This is on high gain and using balanced.
> 
> Just curious since it is stated that the Jot has so much power int it, and maybe its my hearing so chime in guys


 
  
 on my AKG K712's, Too loud for me is about 1 oclock. i hover around 10-11 for general listening.
  
 i mentioned this a few pages back, and also mentioned if the internal DAC is really giving a 2V signal to the amp.
 i have a feeling my amp would be louder if i connect my old ext dac with 2v output


----------



## briman1000

I get zero turn on pop either. A few mechanical sounding pops and clicks from the unit itself though.


----------



## tunes

Just got my Jot and noticed that with no music playing when touching the chassis or the volume knob there is a noticeable hum. There is no sound unless touching the unit and I know that people have said that it could be a ground loop issue but wondering if anyone else has this issue with the Jot. It's funny that with the volume turned all the way up and touching the chassis there is no hiss or hum but only occurs at mid or low levels of volume on the control knob.


----------



## Mirakoolz

tunes said:


> Just got my Jot and noticed that with no music playing when touching the chassis or the volume knob there is a noticeable hum. There is no sound unless touching the unit and I know that people have said that it could be a ground loop issue but wondering if anyone else has this issue with the Jot. It's funny that with the volume turned all the way up and touching the chassis there is no hiss or hum but only occurs at mid or low levels of volume on the control knob.


 
  
 that sucks man.
 i just tested my unit according to your description. no hiss or hum from the unit or through my headphones.


----------



## JoeKickass

For you guys that have burned in the Jot 100+ hours, do you still notice the Jot sounds better with warmup time?
  
 I wonder if we can get away with turning it off once it's been burned in... Is the difference when listening from a cold start very noticeable?


----------



## CarlosUnchained

Solid state doesn't need warmup like tubes do. 
  
 Also the whole burning process is something that can make sound change, no doubt. But a change for actually better sound that the engineers designed? I don't think so. I'm repeating myself here, but you can convince yourself that the change is always for better if you are expecting it to be better.
  
 You can pass a threshold and make some irreversible changes for worse in your equipment. Don't force burning sessions so lightly. Let the equipment adjust itself with normal use.


----------



## Dephezz

tunes said:


> Just got my Jot and noticed that with no music playing when touching the chassis or the volume knob there is a noticeable hum. There is no sound unless touching the unit and I know that people have said that it could be a ground loop issue but wondering if anyone else has this issue with the Jot. It's funny that with the volume turned all the way up and touching the chassis there is no hiss or hum but only occurs at mid or low levels of volume on the control knob.


 
 Same here! Try to touch the chassis and headphones adapter at the same time (in my case this removes the hiss ). Actually, sometimes this issue irritates me a little...


----------



## michaellynn

Strange, on my Jot, the maximum settings I can use (in the Audio Devices section) is 2 channels, 32 bit integer, 48.0 kHz


----------



## FLTWS

No hum, hiss or any type of noise externally or in the signal with any setting of the volume knob with any of my Schiit. The only piece I leave on all the time is Yggy.


----------



## Mirakoolz

michaellynn said:


> Strange, on my Jot, the maximum settings I can use (in the Audio Devices section) is 2 channels, 32 bit integer, 48.0 kHz



That is strange 
I'm getting 192/24


----------



## Mirakoolz

joekickass said:


> For you guys that have burned in the Jot 100+ hours, do you still notice the Jot sounds better with warmup time?
> 
> I wonder if we can get away with turning it off once it's been burned in... Is the difference when listening from a cold start very noticeable?



No difference at all, except for the first 15 seconds where I hear nothing. Hahaha


----------



## JCYC5

How would a Jot + DAC compare to something like the Audio GD 10.33 for a HD650?


----------



## Mirakoolz

jcyc5 said:


> How would a Jot + DAC compare to something like the Audio GD 10.33 for a HD650?


 
  
 this combo has high praise judging from the previous pages by experienced owners, albeit with balanced cable. some are hearing marvellous things on a whole new level, hopefully some of which are actually in the recording
 no personal experience from me though


----------



## watchnerd

jcyc5 said:


> How would a Jot + DAC compare to something like the Audio GD 10.33 for a HD650?


 
  
 The Audio GD 10.33 has more of a well-carmelized flan tone, with leading edges being dominated by hints of lilac and honey.


----------



## DavidA

watchnerd said:


> The Audio GD 10.33 has more of a well-carmelized flan tone, with leading edges being dominated by hints of lilac and honey.


 
 What vintage year?


----------



## watchnerd

davida said:


> What vintage year?


 
  
 late 2015


----------



## BarDash

2012 was more of a banner year in CA.


----------



## DavidA

bardash said:


> 2012 was more of a banner year in CA.


 
 Agree, got quite a few bottles in storage from 2012


----------



## Ancipital

joekickass said:


> For you guys that have burned in the Jot 100+ hours, do you still notice the Jot sounds better with warmup time?
> 
> I wonder if we can get away with turning it off once it's been burned in... Is the difference when listening from a cold start very noticeable?


 
  
 Nope, not noticeably. It just sounds like a Jot, either way. It wakes up and works, no muss, no fuss. I got mine in the week that they came out, and have been using it fairly heavily since then, and it's still the same solid, good-value amp, and still sounds great with unmodded balanced HD650.
  
 My Vali 2 (with nice little aftermarket tube) certainly benefits from 15 minutes of warm-up time, but the Jot? A totally movable feast.


----------



## appleidappleid

Would anyone be able to suggest an upgraded power cord for Jotunheim. My budget is around GBP60/USD75. I am in the UK so things are more expensive over here.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I think I will try get a discount somewhere at black friday. Thanks everyone.


----------



## AviP

appleidappleid said:


> Would anyone be able to suggest an upgraded power cord for Jotunheim. My budget is around GBP60/USD75. I am in the UK so things are more expensive over here.  I think I will try get a discount somewhere at black friday. Thanks everyone.



Not sure if this is troll bait...


----------



## Alchemist007

Well if you want clean power, contact your electricity provider and request solar and wind sourcing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## franzdom

Or install an online mode double conversion UPS.


----------



## JoeKickass

carlosunchained said:


> Solid state doesn't need warmup like tubes do...


 


mirakoolz said:


> No difference at all, except for the first 15 seconds where I hear nothing. Hahaha


 


ancipital said:


> Nope, not noticeably. It just sounds like a Jot, either way. It wakes up and works, no muss, no fuss... My Vali 2 (with nice little aftermarket tube) certainly benefits from 15 minutes of warm-up time, but the Jot? A totally movable feast.


 
  
 Thanks guys that's good to hear, I think there is probably an imperceptible change as components warm up and stabilize but it must be too small of a change to worry about, and the Jot doesn't seem to get that warm in the first place.
  
  
 So people are leaving it on 24/7 for the sole benefit of not having to reach behind and turn it on... the EE in me cringes a bit.
 It's nice to think of electronics as immortal but unfortunately there are constant deterioration processes at work. Hot Carrier Injection, Electromigration, Oxide Breakdown, and plenty more attack the transistors anytime electrons are flowing... It might only shorten the ultimate lifespan from 20 years to 18 or so but it's still time you could have spent using your $400 amp. I would set up a remote switched power outlet for the Jot if you really don't want to reach behind.
  
 Having said all that I leave the Mimby powered on 24/7 unless I leave for a trip, a bit shorter life is certainly worth it when long warm up times are involved!


----------



## Ancipital

joekickass said:


> So people are leaving it on 24/7 for the sole benefit of not having to reach behind and turn it on... the EE in me cringes a bit.
> It's nice to think of electronics as immortal but unfortunately there are constant deterioration processes at work. Hot Carrier Injection, Electromigration, Oxide Breakdown, and plenty more attack the transistors anytime electrons are flowing... It might only shorten the ultimate lifespan from 20 years to 18 or so but it's still time you could have spent using your $400 amp. I would set up a remote switched power outlet for the Jot if you really don't want to reach behind.


 
  
 Actually, that's exactly what I have. The Jot runs from a power strip fed from a remote controlled socket (thankfully RF not IR). When I hit the button to turn the room off at night, it's one of several things that powers down


----------



## CarlosUnchained

joekickass said:


> Having said all that I leave the Mimby powered on 24/7 unless I leave for a trip, a bit shorter life is certainly worth it when long warm up times are involved!


 
 What about the power consumption? The Mimby I guess not that much, but leaving the Jot 24/7 with those 25W sucks. Literally.


----------



## jfoxvol

I just picked up a pair of Focal Elears and am rocking with My Joti.  Hands down one of the best pairings I have ever heard.  This setup with builtin dac was my overall winner for headphone setup at CANJAM this year.  Were there better?  Yeah, probably.  But for far far more money.  I really like the tonal balance of the Focals.  Now, at home with an Yggy DAC and Bryston BDP as a source, it's markedly better.  Highly recommended.


----------



## drews

michaellynn said:


> Strange, on my Jot, the maximum settings I can use (in the Audio Devices section) is 2 channels, 32 bit integer, 48.0 kHz


 
  
 Odd, my older MacBook running Sierra allows the correct rates, but my newer MacBook running El Capitan allows 48khz max...


----------



## michaellynn

I found the answer to this was to reboot the Mac Pro (i too am running Sierra), whilst the Jot was connected via USB and this then allowed the correct settings to appear (after the reboot). Worth a try..
  
 Michael


----------



## Mirakoolz

joekickass said:


> Thanks guys that's good to hear, I think there is probably an imperceptible change as components warm up and stabilize but it must be too small of a change to worry about, and the Jot doesn't seem to get that warm in the first place.


 
  
 My jot gets hot, even at idle without music playing.
 mines the 240v version


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

can u fry an egg on it


----------



## joeq70

bosiemoncrieff said:


> can u fry an egg on it



Mine is on almost 24/7 and it is merely warm to the touch.


----------



## Mirakoolz

Yeah I understand some are reporting cool temps. But mine is hot.


----------



## Aleo

There an important difference between choosing 115v or 230v for the Jot?


----------



## Hunki Chunki

aleo said:


> There an important difference between choosing 115v or 230v for the Jot?


 
  
 Only where you live and what voltage is your location country using.


----------



## Tuneslover

My Jotunheim and Bimby.


----------



## CarlosUnchained

tuneslover said:


> My Jotunheim and Bimby.


 
 That's beautiful!
 I think I'm going for the Mimby, so it's not going to be a perfect match.
 First world problems.


----------



## JoeKickass

carlosunchained said:


> First world problems.


 
  
 My Jotunheim is arriving tomorrow and I'm really looking forward to it, should be just the thing to escape from reality!
  
 Sometimes first world problems are bigger than you think...


----------



## CarlosUnchained

joekickass said:


> My Jotunheim is arriving tomorrow and I'm really looking forward to it, should be just the thing to escape from reality!
> 
> Sometimes first world problems are bigger than you think...


 

 Lucky you! congrats man.
  
 From my point of view, if you set the happiness bar having three meals a day and no health issues to worry about (yours or from your relatives) you should be over-averagely happy.
  
 Let us know your impressions about the Jot!


----------



## franzdom

aleo said:


> There an important difference between choosing 115v or 230v for the Jot?


 
  
 Yes, pick the wrong one and it won't work. Where do you live?


----------



## Tuneslover

franzdom said:


> Yes, pick the wrong one and it won't work. Where do you live?




When I ordered and received my Lake People amp from Germany I was shocked that it came with 230V version with a German plug. It was purchased from Thomann, which is a European internet sales firm. The CEO from Lake People contacted me via Headfi.org to inform me that I might be getting the European version from Thomann and that it will work fine with a North American plug using 110-115V. It did work fine. He said that to get full potential of the amp I should get a step up/down transformer. I bought one on Amazon.ca for around $30.


----------



## CarlosUnchained

tuneslover said:


> It was purchased from Thomann, which is a European internet sales firm.


 
  
 Thomann is a huge German music dedicated store that also sells stuff online. I wouldn't mind working there.
  
https://www.google.com/maps/@49.8017029,10.7312733,3a,82.2y,249.61h,85.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soIQ89VC5RtIAAAQfCRnjGg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


----------



## joeq70

.


----------



## watchnerd

tuneslover said:


> My Jotunheim and Bimby.


 
  
 Why do you have them sitting on what looks like floor tiles?


----------



## Vigrith

watchnerd said:


> Why do you have them sitting on what looks like floor tiles?


 
  
 Probably isolation pads, or something that's achieving that same goal, looks like marble which has pretty nice thermal properties.


----------



## Tuneslover

vigrith said:


> Probably isolation pads, or something that's achieving that same goal, looks like marble which has pretty nice thermal properties.



You got it.
I just don't want to start a debate about this. Mostly I like how it looks and it does make for a solid base.


----------



## Aleo

Live in the US, I go for 115v right?


franzdom said:


> Yes, pick the wrong one and it won't work. Where do you live?


----------



## BarDash

aleo said:


> Live in the US, I go for 115v right?



Yes


----------



## Headphone4Life

This might be a dumb question but can I hook my Fiio X5II up to the RCA connections and still be able to listen in balanced mode?  I assume I'd have to get a 3.5mm male to dual XLR connections for the X5II to be able to use the amps balance setup.  I was going to get just the amp version but I might as well spend the extra $100 for the dac as it will be better than using my X5II as a dac.


----------



## jimmers

headphone4life said:


> This might be a dumb question but can I hook my Fiio X5II up to the RCA connections and still be able to listen in balanced mode?  I assume I'd have to get a 3.5mm male to dual XLR connections for the X5II to be able to use the amps balance setup.  I was going to get just the amp version but I might as well spend the extra $100 for the dac as it will be better than using my X5II as a dac.


 
 You can go single ended in and balanced out, reportedly the performance is between single in single out and balanced in balanced out, closer to the latter (atomicbob measured and listened, on another site, I won't say which, I'm never sure who we're allowed to link on this site ...) so you just need a regular 3.5mm to RCA pair cable. Sounds good to me Bimby single ended in HD650 balanced out.
  
 Edit: If you're a graph junkie google "jotunheim technical measurements"


----------



## CarlosUnchained

*atomicbob *about the result of his measurements on the Jot:
  
  
  


> The completely Balanced vs. completely Unbalanced measurements represent the two extremes in data likely to be measured on the Jotunheim. Unbalanced input with Balanced output will likely be very close but slightly worse than the completely Balanced measurements. Balanced input with Unbalanced output will likely be very close but slightly better than the complete Unbalanced measurements.
> 
> Given the likely similarity of mixed balanced / unbalanced connectivity options with the bal/bal and unbal/unbal, and the time necessary to setup, calibrate, measure, verify data, document and post data I opted to measure the extremes.


----------



## zeissiez

One thing I appreciate of the Jotty is single ended out is quite close to balanced out, unlike a few other amps I heard that SE out is much more inferior than balanced out.


----------



## Tuneslover

zeissiez said:


> One thing I appreciate of the Jotty is single ended out is quite close to balanced out, unlike a few other amps I heard that SE out is much more inferior than balanced out.



While I agree there isn't a huge difference between the Balanced and SE headphone outputs with the Jot, I do notice a slightly wider sounding soundstage and better channel separation with Balanced. The higher output via Balanced is evident so be careful!


----------



## CarlosUnchained

Anybody tested the Jot as preamp of balanced monitors?


----------



## ld100

How good or how bad is the DAc that is optional? Realistically can someone give an honest and factual opinion? I am very confused by reading very opposite reviews...


----------



## CarlosUnchained

ld100 said:


> How good or how bad is the DAc that is optional? Realistically can someone give an honest and factual opinion? I am very confused by reading very opposite reviews...


 

 My conclusion out of all that mess is that the 150$ difference with the Mimby is worth the money.
  
 But yes, how good it's on its own or compared with 100$ dacs?


----------



## Tomasz2D

ld100 said:


> How good or how bad is the DAc that is optional? Realistically can someone give an honest and factual opinion? I am very confused by reading very opposite reviews...


 
 Built-in DAC is very good actually. I have compered it with Mojo, iFi iDAC2, Mimby and Grace m9XX that I also own and it is most similar to Grace. Also I don't think built-in DAC is worse than Mimby - it is just different. Mimby is much sharper while that built-in gives softer touch to music which is not always a bad thing.


----------



## Alchemist007

tomasz2d said:


> Built-in DAC is very good actually. I have compered it with Mojo, iFi iDAC2, Mimby and Grace m9XX that I also own and it is most similar to Grace. Also I don't think built-in DAC is worse than Mimby - it is just different. Mimby is much sharper while that built-in gives softer touch to music which is not always a bad thing.


 
 Sharper as in brighter?


----------



## Tomasz2D

alchemist007 said:


> Sharper as in brighter?


 
 Sharper as more detailed (like sharp photo).


----------



## ray-dude

tomasz2d said:


> Sharper as more detailed (like sharp photo).


 
  
 We had the same experience comparing the Jot + built in DS DAC to the Jot + Mimby: I heard noticably more detail with the Mimby, and the sound seemed less washed out.  We were primarily doing our A/B with very well recorded lossless redbook and high res content, so the additional detail was very welcome. 
  
 The Mimby was our first (and only) multi-bit DAC experience, so we don't have much to compare against.  My buddy has just purchased the Bimby, so we're going to reconvene next week and put the Jot + built in DAC and Jot + Bimby through the gauntlet.  We'll also compare the Bimby to the Oppo HA-1 in my 2 channel setup (that is a comparison I'm really looking forward to)
  
 All that being said, I'm delighted with the built in Jot DAC.  For $100, well worth it for the portability and reduced clutter on the desktop.


----------



## CarlosUnchained

ray-dude said:


> My buddy has just purchased the Bimby, so we're going to reconvene next week and put the Jot + built in DAC and Jot + Bimby through the gauntlet.  We'll also compare the Bimby to the Oppo HA-1 in my 2 channel setup (that is a comparison I'm really looking forward to)


 
  
 Let us know when that happen 
  
 Damn, you joined Head-Fi in 2001? I've been here one month now and I have already more comments than you. Maybe I should calm down a bit...


----------



## zeissiez

ld100 said:


> How good or how bad is the DAc that is optional? Realistically can someone give an honest and factual opinion? I am very confused by reading very opposite reviews...




It depends on your headphone. For example, for AKG702, it's good enough, for HD800s, switching from the build in DAC to a DAC of Yggy/Vega level, the improvement is substantial.


----------



## frogmeat69

ray-dude said:


> We'll also compare the Bimby to the Oppo HA-1 in my 2 channel setup (that is a comparison I'm really looking forward to)


 
 Can you compare the Jot + add on DAC to the HA-1 also??  I would love to hear some comparisons, since I own the Oppo. 
  Also, has anyone done a heads up of Jot + Add on DAC and the iDSD Micro? I know the iFi isn't balanced, but still curious.


----------



## watchnerd

carlosunchained said:


> Anybody tested the Jot as preamp of balanced monitors?


 
  
 What's to test?  The Jot has XLR-out.  If your active monitor has XLR-in, it should just work.


----------



## franzdom

watchnerd said:


> What's to test?  The Jot has XLR-out.  If your active monitor has XLR-in, it should just work.


 
  
 IIRC pre-amp XLR output is usually 2x 3-pin jacks. It may take a bit of fancy wiring.


----------



## leafy7382

http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=115&cp_id=11509&cs_id=1150902&p_id=601602&seq=1&format=2  a pair of this should work.


----------



## Here2rock

How true are these comments (not mine):
  
 "But I kept my m9xx and sold the Jotunheim. The Jot has some definite sonic character, sometimes referred to as the Schiit "house" sound. I personally think the Jot has very little character. The Jot and the Ragnarok, in my opinion have the least character of the Schiit amplifiers. The Rag is slightly warm and the Jot is slightly cool. But the Jot, in my opinion, does something else to the soundstage. I noticed this most particularly through the HD650, which can have a fairly deep soundstage. Through the Jot, the sounds, directly in front, seem rather pressed up against the listener. I enjoyed this sound staging, until I started to listen to quite a few other amplifiers. And once I heard the difference, I fond the Jot rather distracting to listen to. One other note is the Jot is cool sounding, but can also be rather brittle sounding until warmed up. And I mean a warmup of 8 - 24 hours."
  
  
 Anybody else agrees to this?


----------



## JoeKickass

here2rock said:


> How true are these comments (not mine):
> 
> "But I kept my m9xx and sold the Jotunheim. The Jot has some definite sonic character, sometimes referred to as the Schiit "house" sound. I personally think the Jot has very little character. The Jot and the Ragnarok, in my opinion have the least character of the Schiit amplifiers. The Rag is slightly warm and the Jot is slightly cool. But the Jot, in my opinion, does something else to the soundstage. I noticed this most particularly through the HD650, which can have a fairly deep soundstage. Through the Jot, the sounds, directly in front, seem rather pressed up against the listener. I enjoyed this sound staging, until I started to listen to quite a few other amplifiers. And once I heard the difference, I fond the Jot rather distracting to listen to. One other note is the Jot is cool sounding, but can also be rather brittle sounding until warmed up. And I mean a warmup of 8 - 24 hours."
> 
> ...


 
  
 Mine has only been on a few hours but I think it's just clear and lovely, not sure if the warmup part is correct, this is what I got when I asked if there was any appreciable differences between listening from a cold start and warmed up:
  


carlosunchained said:


> Solid state doesn't need warmup like tubes do...


 


mirakoolz said:


> No difference at all, except for the first 15 seconds where I hear nothing. Hahaha


 


ancipital said:


> Nope, not noticeably. It just sounds like a Jot, either way. It wakes up and works, no muss, no fuss... My Vali 2 (with nice little aftermarket tube) certainly benefits from 15 minutes of warm-up time, but the Jot? A totally movable feast.


 
  
 Not sure if I can judge the sound yet but it is certainly _cool _to look at!


----------



## watchnerd

franzdom said:


> IIRC pre-amp XLR output is usually 2x 3-pin jacks. It may take a bit of fancy wiring.


 
  
 I use a Mjolnir 2 to drive a pair of active speakers over XLR.
  
 Active speakers use 3 pins per channel, just like the output jacks of the MJ2 and Jotunheim.
  
 Doesn't require fancy wiring at all...cheap XLR cables are widely available. I use Monoprice.
  
 Only headphones use a 4-pin.


----------



## watchnerd

leafy7382 said:


> http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=115&cp_id=11509&cs_id=1150902&p_id=601602&seq=1&format=2  a pair of this should work.


 
  
 I use the slightly better "Premier" series.  For $1 more you get metal connectors:
  
http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=115&cp_id=11509&cs_id=1150902&p_id=4754&seq=1&format=2


----------



## franzdom

watchnerd said:


> I use a Mjolnir 2 to drive a pair of active speakers over XLR.
> 
> Active speakers use 3 pins per channel, just like the output jacks of the MJ2 and Jotunheim.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes sorry, for some reason I was thinking passive speakers.


----------



## Ancipital

joekickass said:


> Not sure if I can judge the sound yet but it is certainly _cool _to look at!


 
  
 Hah, I have those exact things on my desk too- but with a Sys to switch the Mimby between the Jot and the Vali 2- with active monitors hanging off the Jot's pre-out XLRs. It's a hilariously cute and compact setup, with a lot of flexibility. I'm probably going to move more headamps there too, and ruin the tidy effect of a few silver boxes, but meantime, it looks brilliantly unobtrusive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 (Also, ermahgerd, get whichever headphone that is a nice balanced cable for your Jot- it's not "night and day" but certainly a difference worth having...)


----------



## jmac1516

What's the consensus on the Jot pairing with Senn 800S?  Too bright for many?  Any recent experience you guys can share.  Thanks.


----------



## zeissiez

jmac1516 said:


> What's the consensus on the Jot pairing with Senn 800S?  Too bright for many?  Any recent experience you guys can share.  Thanks.




Pretty good, but not the best. The treble is not hot, as I think the Jot is nicely rolled at the top end, in a good way. The soundstage is ok, not very wide, but with decent separation. Still, I think the 800/800S are best served by tube amps.


----------



## wasupdog

here2rock said:


> How true are these comments (not mine):
> 
> "But I kept my m9xx and sold the Jotunheim. The Jot has some definite sonic character, sometimes referred to as the Schiit "house" sound. I personally think the Jot has very little character. The Jot and the Ragnarok, in my opinion have the least character of the Schiit amplifiers. The Rag is slightly warm and the Jot is slightly cool. But the Jot, in my opinion, does something else to the soundstage. I noticed this most particularly through the HD650, which can have a fairly deep soundstage. Through the Jot, the sounds, directly in front, seem rather pressed up against the listener. I enjoyed this sound staging, until I started to listen to quite a few other amplifiers. And once I heard the difference, I fond the Jot rather distracting to listen to. One other note is the Jot is cool sounding, but can also be rather brittle sounding until warmed up. And I mean a warmup of 8 - 24 hours."
> 
> ...


 
  
 i posted about this a month ago.  the only thing i'm surprised at is that it's not brought up more often.  jot has a soundstage that's narrow or lack of depth or however you want to put it. otherwise, it's a fantastic component at it's price point.


----------



## watchnerd

zeissiez said:


> The treble is not hot, as I think *the Jot is nicely rolled at the top end*, in a good way.





>


 
  
 Ummm...what?
  
 The specs are 20Hz-20Khz, -0.1db.
  
 That's pretty much ruler flat.


----------



## Mr Rick

watchnerd said:


> Ummm...what?
> 
> The specs are 20Hz-20Khz, -0.1db.
> 
> That's pretty much ruler flat.


 
  
 As are all Schiit amps. Topology, feature set, and output to hi and low Z cans are the only real variables IMHO.


----------



## FLTWS

I own MJ2, Ragnarok, and Jodie. They are all cut from the same cloth and voiced by the same design team so no surprise there.
  
 The differences between them are not earth shattering to my ears. Tonal reproduction, imaging, and depth are extremely similar.
  
 Yes the MJ2 is a touch soft on the bottom and doesn't reach as deep with authority and it's not quite as crisp and clean at the very top compared to Raggy and Jodie, but the mid-range has a bit of that sculpted presentation tubes are noted for and that I enjoy. And, the sound with MJ2 is highly dependent on the tube types (or LISST's) in the holes.
  
 The Jodie is a steal at $399.00, reaches into the bass with detail and depth, the highs are slightly brighter than either of the other, and the mid-range is just a bit forward (probably why so many rave about vocals through Jodie).
  
 Raggy features some of the better sonic aspects of both to my ears and is more dynamic / effortless sounding and is the porridge that's just right temperature for me with my music of choice. I've got many months ahead of demoing / comparing the 3 with different headphones, so I've lots to experience yet. And in my experience so far it takes a lot of time to ferret out these small differences repeatably.
  
 Still, I expect the differences I am able to identify between the 3 will be piddling in nature compared to the differences in the sound of different headphones. Some headphones might exhibit better synergism with 1 or 2 of the 3  and not all 3, but the differences will still not be anything major between these 3 amps. I think that can (and should) be said of most well designed amps now days that claim to be neutral so as to allow the source material to reveal itself to the fullest.
  
 Someday I'd love to audition one of the top end Cavalli's or Woo's, and probably will. Until then I have no regrets with my Schiit purchases and am having a lot of fun in the process of evaluating headphones.


----------



## vitek02

Hi guys,
  
 I've just received my Jot yesterday and I was actually not so thrilled, so I'd love to hear your ideas. Some people were mentioning that amp really needs to burn in?
  
 I own a pair of Audeze LCD-2 for about 5 weeks (latest model with Fazor technology) and up until now I was running them through built-in HP amp in UAD Apollo 8 with the stock cable.
  
 Now I'm running UAD -> fairly cheap balanced 2,5m cables -> JOT -> customcans balanced cable -> Audeze LCD-2f
  
 I can hear slight improvement, sound is cleaner and more balanced, however it's like those 3%, only noticeable when trying to A/B. I can imagine cable between UAD and Jot can probably affect sound quality, but how about that burn in? Now I'm wondering if UAD amp is so good, or Jot needs to burn-in, or whatever?
  
 Also what's the difference between lo/hi gain modes? Some people here felt higain mode sounds fuller... I had the same impression, however it might be the case, that reading this already tricked my brain and I think I hear things, ... it's this one percent difference, so one never knows 
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Mr Rick

vitek02 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I've just received my Jot yesterday and I was actually not so thrilled, so I'd love to hear your ideas. Some people were mentioning that amp really needs to burn in?
> 
> ...


 
  
 If your Apollo 8 has a capable headphone amp, ( at that price it should have ) then I would not expect much of an improvement.  Any improvement in the Jot with further burn-in will probably be minimal, IMHO.
  
 As to lo/hi gain, use what sounds best to you.


----------



## cthomas

How much of an upgrade is the Jot compared to a Modi Magni stack using a HD650?


----------



## Mirakoolz

cthomas said:


> How much of an upgrade is the Jot compared to a Modi Magni stack using a HD650?


 
 exactly 1.80823847657% better
 Some people can hear this difference as night and day
 Others cannot.
  
 didnt you just buy the Sony portable amp? did you hear a difference with that compared to what u had prior?


----------



## cthomas

mirakoolz said:


> exactly 1.80823847657% better
> Some people can hear this difference as night and day
> Others cannot.
> 
> didnt you just buy the Sony portable amp? did you hear a difference with that compared to what u had prior?




Yeah but this thing is giving me the schiits. Every time it's moved the charger wigs out and decides it doesn't want to stay connected which means it'll keep topping up the charge and eventually kill the battery with all these top up charges it's doing.

It sounds better than the UDA-1 I had before if I'm using balanced but haven't got a balanced cable for my 650 yet, just my SE846. Also I've found the volume doesn't go as high as I expected so it may not be loud enough for certain recordings with high dynamic range. Watching some movies the volume is too low as well.


----------



## cthomas

I guess if I return the PHA-3 the Jot will power any HP I buy in future, I just won't have the option for portable use. The only thing that really gripes me about Schiit is no remote control as I use my gear in my living room not a work desk.


----------



## Tuneslover

cthomas said:


> How much of an upgrade is the Jot compared to a Modi Magni stack using a HD650?




I can answer in part, I had the Magni2U paired with a Bimby and now have the Jotunheim in its place. My HD650'S are my main headphone. I chose to go with Jotunheim because I wanted to experience balanced with my 650's and appreciated the extra power of the Jot.

So as you now realize it's not a true apples to apples comparison so take it for what it's worth. First off, I gave the Jot sufficient time to settle in before I did any serious listening. I have had the Jot for about 3 weeks now and gave it a good 3 days of continuous play time and then listened for a couple hours most days since then. Not sure if the run in time or brain burn in has occurred but the sound appears effortless in presentation not only in power but also in its delivery of musical details. Improved instrument separation is very noticeable but that might be due to adding balanced cables as part of the changes introduced to my system.

So from my perspective I certainly hear an upgraded system with this amp upgrade. Typical of most upgrades, changes are subtle but noticeable. However I will say that the Jotunheim is a welcome change that I do believe has elevated my listening experience. I have read on numerous occasions that the HD650'S scale well as you improve your equipment and I can attest to that sentiment. With this amp my 650's definitely sound more refined.


----------



## MWSVette

cthomas said:


> I guess if I return the PHA-3 the Jot will power any HP I buy in future, I just won't have the option for portable use. The only thing that really gripes me about Schiit is no remote control as I use my gear in my living room not a work desk.


 
 Then it sounds like you need a Schiit Saga.  That way you will have a remote...


----------



## Tuneslover

I would also like to add that the Jotunheim and my Lake People G109S amp are my end game amps for the foreseeable future (famous last words!). These 2 amps plus my Vali 2 pretty much cover all of my desires with respect to quality, power, SE/Balanced and foray into tubes.


----------



## MWSVette

tuneslover said:


> I would also like to add that the Jotunheim and my Lake People G109S amp are my end game amps for the foreseeable future (famous last words!). These 2 amps plus my Vali 2 pretty much cover all of my desires with respect to quality, power, SE/Balanced and foray into tubes.


 
  
 Me too.  Except I am Jot, Lyr and then use my Emotiva DC-1 as preamp and remote volume control.
  
 These three cover all my bases...
  
 For now.


----------



## cthomas

tuneslover said:


> I can answer in part, I had the Magni2U paired with a Bimby and now have the Jotunheim in its place. My HD650'S are my main headphone. I chose to go with Jotunheim because I wanted to experience balanced with my 650's and appreciated the extra power of the Jot.
> 
> So as you now realize it's not a true apples to apples comparison so take it for what it's worth. First off, I gave the Jot sufficient time to settle in before I did any serious listening. I have had the Jot for about 3 weeks now and gave it a good 3 days of continuous play time and then listened for a couple hours most days since then. Not sure if the run in time or brain burn in has occurred but the sound appears effortless in presentation not only in power but also in its delivery of musical details. Improved instrument separation is very noticeable but that might be due to adding balanced cables as part of the changes introduced to my system.
> 
> So from my perspective I certainly hear an upgraded system with this amp upgrade. Typical of most upgrades, changes are subtle but noticeable. However I will say that the Jotunheim is a welcome change that I do believe has elevated my listening experience. I have read on numerous occasions that the HD650'S scale well as you improve your equipment and I can attest to that sentiment. With this amp my 650's definitely sound more refined.




Thanks for the feedback. I'm just trying to decide if its overkill as i only have a couple of HP's at the moment (HD650 and SE846) and I would really prefer putting the extra money towards the new Walkman. But then I keep thinking the Jot would probably be an end game amp for me and won't have to upgrade in future no matter what HP I buy.


----------



## cthomas

mwsvette said:


> Then it sounds like you need a Schiit Saga.  That way you will have a remote...




What's the saga? Couldn't see it on their website.


----------



## MWSVette

cthomas said:


> What's the saga? Couldn't see it on their website.


 
 Here is an article regarding the Saga, Freya and Vidar;
  
 http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2016/10/saga-freya-vidar-three-fresh-pieces-of-schiit-from-rmaf-2016/


----------



## watchnerd

cthomas said:


> How much of an upgrade is the Jot compared to a Modi Magni stack using a HD650?


 
  
 It's like switching from a pegasus to a unicorn.


----------



## ld100

tuneslover said:


> I can answer in part, I had the Magni2U paired with a Bimby and now have the Jotunheim in its place. My HD650'S are my main headphone. I chose to go with Jotunheim because I wanted to experience balanced with my 650's and appreciated the extra power of the Jot.
> 
> So as you now realize it's not a true apples to apples comparison so take it for what it's worth. First off, I gave the Jot sufficient time to settle in before I did any serious listening. I have had the Jot for about 3 weeks now and gave it a good 3 days of continuous play time and then listened for a couple hours most days since then. Not sure if the run in time or brain burn in has occurred but the sound appears effortless in presentation not only in power but also in its delivery of musical details. Improved instrument separation is very noticeable but that might be due to adding balanced cables as part of the changes introduced to my system.
> 
> So from my perspective I certainly hear an upgraded system with this amp upgrade. Typical of most upgrades, changes are subtle but noticeable. However I will say that the Jotunheim is a welcome change that I do believe has elevated my listening experience. I have read on numerous occasions that the HD650'S scale well as you improve your equipment and I can attest to that sentiment. With this amp my 650's definitely sound more refined.


 
  
 Which DAC do you run?


----------



## cthomas

watchnerd said:


> It's like switching from a pegasus to a unicorn.




Well that clears things up.


----------



## cthomas

mwsvette said:


> Here is an article regarding the Saga, Freya and Vidar;
> 
> http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2016/10/saga-freya-vidar-three-fresh-pieces-of-schiit-from-rmaf-2016/




So the saga is a headphone amp and preamp?


----------



## Tuneslover

ld100 said:


> Which DAC do you run?




Schiit Bifrost Multibit...aka...Bimby.


----------



## Mr Rick

cthomas said:


> So the saga is a headphone amp and preamp?


 
 No, two channel preamp only.


----------



## MWSVette

cthomas said:


> So the saga is a headphone amp and preamp?


 
 No, its only a preamp.  
  
 Signal from DAC to Saga to HP amp.  Use the Saga as volume control and multiple input switch to amp of choice...


----------



## Mr Rick

Info from Schiit.
  
 http://schiit.com/news/news/schiit-previews-2-channel-line-at-rmaf


----------



## rovopio

mirakoolz said:


> mine doesnt pop through the headphones during startup or shutdown (yes, im THAT guy who doesnt leave it on 24/7)
> there are relay clicks however, but thats because theres relays inside.


 
  
 Hi! Is it just on mine or is there a relay click on powering off too? Like 4 clicks on off?


----------



## Mr Rick

rovopio said:


> Hi! Is it just on mine or is there a relay click on powering off too? Like 4 clicks on off?


 
  
 The relay engages when you turn on your JOT, and disengages when you turn it off. It's a switch, that is it's function.


----------



## rovopio

mr rick said:


> The relay engages when you turn on your JOT, and disengages when you turn it off. It's a switch, that is it's function.


 
  
 Ahhh!! That makes sense. The manual said the pop is expected when turning on, but no explanation about sound when turning off.
 Thanks for the explanation


----------



## JoeKickass

rovopio said:


> Hi! Is it just on mine or is there a relay click on powering off too? Like 4 clicks on off?


 
  
 There are a lot more than one or two relays... I thought I heard the same thing and looked at the circuit board and I think there are actually 8 relays!
  

  
 I think the green ones all come on with the power switch, the 4 simultaneous clicks sound like a faint sizzling or crackling at the same moment you turn on the power.
  
 The orange and blue relays are for balanced and SE headphone out, those are delayed and one of each trigger at the same time, one channel at a time.
  
 When you power off it's the opposite, the orange and blue headphone relays all turn off instantly with the click of the power switch, the green ones turn off one by one (4 clicks) as the capacitors discharge.
  
  
 You might think all these mechanical switches won't be reliable but each should be rated for at least 1mil cycles.
 Even if you power cycle the Jot 10x a day they're good for *274 years*!


----------



## Alchemist007

What's their purpose in having so many?


----------



## jimmers

joekickass said:


> There are a lot more than one or two relays... I thought I heard the same thing and looked at the circuit board and I think there are actually 8 relays!
> ...


 
 Makes me smile when I look back to 2014 re July of 2011:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/701900/schiit-happened-the-story-of-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up/765#post_10463052
  
 "some reasons why we didn’t want to use relays (most of all, contact degradation from outgassing, which NwAvGuy dismissed out of hand, although it is clearly present on the data sheet.)"
  
 and look at the number of relays in the current line up.


----------



## droopy1592

Good combo


----------



## rovopio

Thanks for the information guys!
 I really appreciate it.
  
 I hope Schiit read this thread and write that "turning off also pop (several times)" in their next generation's product's manual so dumbasses like me would understand them without having to ask around.


----------



## zeissiez

droopy1592 said:


> Good combo




Nice headphone! With a better DAC, the system scales to another level.


----------



## Atavax

here2rock said:


> But the Jot, in my opinion, does something else to the soundstage. I noticed this most particularly through the HD650, which can have a fairly deep soundstage. Through the Jot, the sounds, directly in front, seem rather pressed up against the listener. I enjoyed this sound staging, until I started to listen to quite a few other amplifiers. And once I heard the difference, I fond the Jot rather distracting to listen to. One other note is the Jot is cool sounding, but can also be rather brittle sounding until warmed up. And I mean a warmup of 8 - 24 hours."
> 
> Anybody else agrees to this?


 
  
 I have no idea what he means by "brittle". So I don't have experience with any other high end amp. And this is the only amp i can power my HE560 with. To me ears, there is something not quite right with the soundstage, sometimes it definitely seems off, but i don't know if its headphones, amp, dac, or source. The 560 thread seems to really praise the 560's soundstage, so i don't think its the headphones. I haven't heard people talk about soundstage much for dacs, so i'm guessing its either the source or amp. I will be getting a balanced cable next week, so I'll see if the greater power helps.


----------



## joeq70

IMO the Jotunheim "Elear-izes" the HD650 soundstage. I don't mind it. It's just different.


----------



## cthomas

If I buy a Jot without the DAC can it be upgraded to DAC later?


----------



## Atavax

cthomas said:


> If I buy a Jot without the DAC can it be upgraded to DAC later?


 

 yeah, they already have the option on their site, $150 for the DAC if you buy it later


----------



## cthomas

atavax said:


> yeah, they already have the option on their site, $150 for the DAC if you buy it later




Thanks mate.


----------



## droopy1592

zeissiez said:


> Nice headphone! With a better DAC, the system scales to another level.


 
 The Modi multibit is no slouch. It's virtually indistinguishable from the bifrost MB to many and not far from gumby. I have to sample one to see if the gumby is worth the upgrade, because many have said it's the best value in the lineup price/performance wise. This is an extremely resolving amp, probably the cleanest i've heard without being forward in the treble. It makes for an outstanding combo. Besides, I have to resist the temptation to spend more money and you're not helping lol.


----------



## MUSICCURE

Just recieved the Jot and the Multi Bit this morning. This is my first Schiit gear and I've been impressed right away. The stack fits nicely on my desktop. Using the HD650 single ended and it's the best its sounded. I like the sound out of the Polaris too, but didn't like fiddling with all of its different settings. Balanced cable for the HD650 is on its way in December. In the meantime I'll enjoy SE.


----------



## JoeKickass

droopy1592 said:


> The Modi multibit is no slouch. It's virtually indistinguishable from the bifrost MB to many and not far from gumby...


 
  
 I agree the Mimby is nothing short of a revolution! Here's a great quote:
  


coltmrfire said:


> Have not heard the Bimby but I did demo the Yggy and the difference between the
> Mimby and Yggy was not huge, which says it all considering there is a $2,000 difference between the two. Mimby is amazing for the money.


  

 I liked to joke to myself that I had a mini Yggdrasil with the multibit Mimby, but to hear it can hold its own in a direct comparison is humbling.
 I have a feeling it would be hard to tell the difference with 16 bit music in a blind comparison!
  
 And I love how the Jotenheim is the best amp yet and isn't priced out of reach!
 A $250 dac and a $400 amp and you get endgame level performance...
  
 Thank you Schiit for bringing reasonably priced HiFi to the masses!


----------



## droopy1592

joekickass said:


> I agree the Mimby is nothing short of a revolution! Here's a great quote:
> 
> I liked to joke to myself that I had a mini Yggdrasil with the multibit Mimby, but to hear it can hold its own in a direct comparison is humbling.
> I have a feeling it would be hard to tell the difference with 16 bit music in a blind comparison!
> ...


 
 I rarely say I hear things I haven't heard before when upgrading... maybe some very minor increase in clarity, or some barely noticeable glare removed when upgrading to multibit, but I'm noticing things I hadn't heard before, and that was while doing some scheduling work at a lower volume and not really paying attention. So now that I'm paying attention it's just a very noise free resolving wire with gain, basically. Damn good amp for the money. You hear everything in detail, no distortion or coloring.


----------



## BarDash

Anyone using a DAC with the Jot besides one from Schitt?


----------



## zeissiez

droopy1592 said:


> zeissiez said:
> 
> 
> > Nice headphone! With a better DAC, the system scales to another level.
> ...






LOL.....

Were it not for a pair of LCD-4 you have there, I wouldn't have recommended a better DAC.

The other day I compared my Jot with my ECBA and a friend's AGD Compass 2. And compared the build in DAC vs my Auralic Vega. Even with a pair of LCD-X, the improvement going from the build in DAC to Vega is very big, more open, more detailed, more nuanced, more transparent, bigger soundstage, by quite a big margin. Easily heard within seconds.


----------



## joeq70

bardash said:


> Anyone using a DAC with the Jot besides one from Schitt?


 
 I'm using an Aune T1 with a pretty nice tube. The T1 is not what I'd consider a great DAC. It is around the level of the Modi or Dragonfly Red (underrated btw). What makes it nice is you can tune the sound by swapping out tubes. I probably won't upgrade until I can afford a Gumby or whatever the next great thing is.


----------



## droopy1592

zeissiez said:


> LOL.....
> 
> Were it not for a pair of LCD-4 you have there, I wouldn't have recommended a better DAC.
> 
> The other day I compared my Jot with my ECBA and a friend's AGD Compass 2. And compared the build in DAC vs my Auralic Vega. Even with a pair of LCD-X, the improvement going from the build in DAC to Vega is very big, more open, more detailed, more nuanced, more transparent, bigger soundstage, by quite a big margin. Easily heard within seconds.


 
 I don't think you read my post at all.  You're not supposed to talk me into upgrading. My poor wallet has been murdered lately. Stop, lol.


----------



## BarDash

joeq70 said:


> I'm using an Aune T1 with a pretty nice tube. The T1 is not what I'd consider a great DAC. It is around the level of the Modi or Dragonfly Red (underrated btw). What makes it nice is you can tune the sound by swapping out tubes. I probably won't upgrade until I can afford a Gumby or whatever the next great thing is.



Thank's I haven't seen to many posts with anyone using the Jot with tubes. I'm interested in a possible future Jot/tube combo for the HD800S.


----------



## zeissiez

droopy1592 said:


> zeissiez said:
> 
> 
> > LOL.....
> ...


 LOL..... BTW, I agree with u about the treble, it's one big reason why I keep the Jot. While not as extended as the Compass 2, it's less fatiguing while no less detailed.


----------



## droopy1592

zeissiez said:


> LOL..... BTW, I agree with u about the treble, it's one big reason why I keep the Jot. While not as extended as the Compass 2, it's less fatiguing while no less detailed.


 
 Yeah there are some parts of certain tracks or certain tracks with certain repetitive instruments that I always brace for because they usually are a bit piercing, but not with the Jotunheim. I think this is what a neutral amp is supposed to sound like.


----------



## Ancipital

jmac1516 said:


> What's the consensus on the Jot pairing with Senn 800S?  Too bright for many?  Any recent experience you guys can share.  Thanks.


 
  
 I tried the 800S balanced out of my Jot at one point, considering buying- and found it just a touch too fatiguing. I'm not super-sensitive to treble, but it just sounded a bit too brittle as a pairing. Both the 800S and the Jot can sound better than that- just not together. It wasn't awful, and maybe if I didn't know that both should sound better than that, I would have liked the combo more (if that makes sense).
  
 I wouldn't buy a Jot for the 800S, or vice versa, but would be quite happy with either when paired differently.


----------



## Hofy

hofy said:


> They call it a DAC yet it has no connection for SPDIF or TOSLINK .  Pretty worthless if I can not hook up any of my digital sources.


 
 Color me red. This is my post from a couple of months ago.  Talk about harsh and hasty.  The more I have read about and studied this amp the more I want it.
 My listening has also changed so that I am using my computer more with headphones. As I rip of my CDs to the NAS and acquire more HD downloads I have realized this is the way to go.  
 The one thing that really has my interest is the Balanced dual 4490 DAC.  Since it is balanced and using 2 of the 4490 chips how does it compare to the multibit single ended?


----------



## droopy1592

hofy said:


> Color me red. This is my post from a couple of months ago.  Talk about harsh and hasty.  The more I have read about and studied this amp the more I want it.
> My listening has also changed so that I am using my computer more with headphones. As I rip of my CDs to the NAS and acquire more HD downloads I have realized this is the way to go.
> The one thing that really has my interest is the Balanced dual 4490 DAC.  Since it is balanced and using 2 of the 4490 chips how does it compare to the multibit single ended?




I haven't heard good things. I had been waiting for early reviews before I dropped money for one and many found it inferior to any of the multibit options, which is why I kept my modi mb. The only negative feelings I've read about Jorunheim have always been with the Dac module, and those that tried a number of other schiit dacs found them superior.


----------



## MWSVette

hofy said:


> Color me red. This is my post from a couple of months ago.  Talk about harsh and hasty.  The more I have read about and studied this amp the more I want it.
> My listening has also changed so that I am using my computer more with headphones. As I rip of my CDs to the NAS and acquire more HD downloads I have realized this is the way to go.
> The one thing that really has my interest is the Balanced dual 4490 DAC.  Since it is balanced and using 2 of the 4490 chips how does it compare to the multibit single ended?


 
 For $100.00 additional you cannot beat the DAC in the Jotunheim.  If you have an additional $150.00 though I would consider getting the Mimby as it has Coax and Optical inputs in addition to USB.
  
 And of course it is Multibit...


----------



## ld100

droopy1592 said:


> I haven't heard good things. I had been waiting for early reviews before I dropped money for one and many found it inferior to any of the multibit options, which is why I kept my modi mb. The only negative feelings I've read about Jorunheim have always been with the Dac module, and those that tried a number of other schiit dacs found them superior.




What exactly?


----------



## droopy1592

ld100 said:


> What exactly?




I've been reading the Jotunheim thread for a week. Don't remember exactly what was said or which post other than they enjoyed other dacs through the Jotunheim vs the balanced module.


----------



## ld100

droopy1592 said:


> I've been reading the Jotunheim thread for a week. Don't remember exactly what was said or which post other than they enjoyed other dacs through the Jotunheim vs the balanced module.




I been also reading and to me it seems that whoever tried it loves it and whoever has another dac says it is in. Tempted to say it is mostly not based on the dac performance... I have yet to see anything that would clearly say that this day is not good based on this and that... Would love to see some measurements or real comparisons and not just I heard something....


----------



## watchnerd

ld100 said:


> I been also reading and to me it seems that whoever tried it loves it and whoever has another dac says it is in. Tempted to say it is mostly not based on the dac performance... I have yet to see anything that would clearly say that this day is not good based on this and that... Would love to see some measurements or real comparisons and not just I heard something....


 
  
 I can't think of any rational reason why the balanced 2 x 4490 implementation of the Jotunheim would be inferior to the SE 1 x 4490 of the Modi 2 Uber.
  
 Jontunheim and Modi 2 Uber both even use the same input receiver for USB, the C-Media 6631A.
  
 Now, if you need more input choices (Coax, Optical), okay, buy the Modi Uber 2.
  
 But for USB, the Jontumheim built-in DAC seems a killer value for $100 compared to the Modi Uber 2, especially given that it's balanced.  It should be slightly superior to the Modi 2 Uber.
  
 As for multibit, well, if that's important to you then you'll have to use an an external DAC...


----------



## zeissiez

When it comes to high end, the implementation of the topology, power supply and output stage design are of utmost importance, regardless of DAC chip and topology used. Some said SABRE chips are ****, I disagree, I have heard a number of delta-sigma and R-2R DACs, high end ones and low end ones, I don't find R-2R wins all across all brands. And another thing is, at mid fi level, the investment in amp is more beneficial than the DAC, but at high fi level, the DAC becomes more and more important. At summit fi level, we need to take real care of the source. Rubbish in rubbish out is ever more obvious.

How good is the Jotenheim? Good transparency, good clarity, good musicality, good treble tuning (for my taste), good bass and good impact, good balance overall, good separation, single ended out is of high quality. For 399, it's really really good. If it's 999, I would want more micro dynamic, inner details and openness.


----------



## tunes

Has anyone compared the JOT to the Bakoon HPA-21? I realize there is a big price differential but would be interested if upgrades worth it.


----------



## gahan

How good is JOT with LCD-4? I´m curious about that.


----------



## droopy1592

gahan said:


> How good is JOT with LCD-4? I´m curious about that.





If you're into the LCD4 being an LCD it's perfect. Tons of detail and resolution and no bright/harsh/shrill to speak of. Usually when people say an amp is detailed, it's a bit top end heavy/ focused but not here. Just extreme detail, and Im very sensitive to high frequencies. They are made for each other if you like the audeze house sound. This amp is black as the darkest night with noise. Check the other place for measurements that show it has lower noise and distortion than the rest of the schiit line. It's insane how good this amp is for $400. I'm sure they are going to use the topology for updates and the higher end stuff, if it's better, it will be ground breaking value-wise.


----------



## ProtegeManiac

hofy said:


> They call it a DAC yet it has no connection for SPDIF or TOSLINK .  Pretty worthless if I can not hook up any of my digital sources.


 

 ​Apparently the Modi, D-Zero, ODAC, D4, Dragonfly, etc claiming to be DACs is dubious.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

ancipital said:


> I tried the 800S balanced out of my Jot at one point, considering buying- and found it just a touch too fatiguing. I'm not super-sensitive to treble, but it just sounded a bit too brittle as a pairing. Both the 800S and the Jot can sound better than that- just not together. It wasn't awful, and maybe if I didn't know that both should sound better than that, I would have liked the combo more (if that makes sense).
> 
> I wouldn't buy a Jot for the 800S, or vice versa, but would be quite happy with either when paired differently.


 
 It was too fatiguing even with Mimby? I have HD800, and upgrading to multibit took whatever edge I ever heard on LISST, though perhaps Jot is more fatiguing than LISST, I don't know. We're all sensitive to different things, but with classical music I find HD800 totally fine, and even most pop satisfactory.


----------



## Ancipital

bosiemoncrieff said:


> It was too fatiguing even with Mimby? I have HD800, and upgrading to multibit took whatever edge I ever heard on LISST, though perhaps Jot is more fatiguing than LISST, I don't know. We're all sensitive to different things, but with classical music I find HD800 totally fine, and even most pop satisfactory.


 
  
 Worse, I had brought my Jot in a bag, so rather than bringing the Mimby, I brought the Mojo (which is slightly rolled-off up high), as I wouldn't be able to guarantee warm-up time for the Mimby. I'm not unusually treble sensitive (I enjoy HE-560 out of the Jot, for example), but it I found it fatiguing fairly quickly. It's a brutally clear amp, way clearer than LISST typically, so it made the HD800S sound rather brittle and a tad etched, even without the 6kHz spike of the grey 800.
  
 It is possible that the Mojo's slight Delta/Sigma glare (a sort of "prickling" on the highs) contributed to it though. There could be something in what you say, the Mimby might make it less disappointing, but I remain mildly sceptical. The HD800 has never been pleasant on very fast, forward solid state amps- and that's the Jot in a nutshell.


----------



## droopy1592

ancipital said:


> Worse, I had brought my Jot in a bag, so rather than bringing the Mimby, I brought the Mojo (which is slightly rolled-off up high), as I wouldn't be able to guarantee warm-up time for the Mimby. I'm not unusually treble sensitive (I enjoy HE-560 out of the Jot, for example), but it I found it fatiguing fairly quickly. It's a brutally clear amp, way clearer than LISST typically, so it made the HD800S sound rather brittle and a tad etched, even without the 6kHz spike of the grey 800.
> 
> It is possible that the Mojo's slight Delta/Sigma glare (a sort of "prickling" on the highs) contributed to it though. There could be something in what you say, the Mimby might make it less disappointing, but I remain mildly sceptical. The HD800 has never been pleasant on very fast, forward solid state amps- and that's the Jot in a nutshell.


 
 Jot is great with LCD4, almoost perfectly neutral, not fatiguing at all. May be the HD800s


----------



## Ancipital

droopy1592 said:


> Jot is great with LCD4, almoost perfectly neutral, not fatiguing at all. May be the HD800s


 

 No kidding.


----------



## BarDash

bosiemoncrieff said:


> It was too fatiguing even with Mimby? I have HD800, and upgrading to multibit took whatever edge I ever heard on LISST, though perhaps Jot is more fatiguing than LISST, I don't know. We're all sensitive to different things, but with classical music I find HD800 totally fine, and even most pop satisfactory.







ancipital said:


> I tried the 800S balanced out of my Jot at one point, considering buying- and found it just a touch too fatiguing. I'm not super-sensitive to treble, but it just sounded a bit too brittle as a pairing. Both the 800S and the Jot can sound better than that- just not together. It wasn't awful, and maybe if I didn't know that both should sound better than that, I would have liked the combo more (if that makes sense).
> 
> I wouldn't buy a Jot for the 800S, or vice versa, but would be quite happy with either when paired differently.



I agree with Ancipital. I own the Jot & Mimby and find the 800S w/ that combo, somewhat fatiguing. On some "trebly" songs almost unbearable.


----------



## CarlosUnchained

Anybody has the DT1990 Pro to pair with the Jot?


----------



## watchnerd

bardash said:


> I agree with Ancipital. I own the Jot & Mimby and find the 800S w/ that combo, somewhat fatiguing. On some "trebly" songs almost unbearable.


 
  
 The Jot measures flat, so unless there is some vicious impedance swings on the 800S, maybe that's just how it sounds.


----------



## BarDash

watchnerd said:


> The Jot measures flat, so unless there is some vicious impedance swings on the 800S, maybe that's just how it sounds.



Possibly. I wish I could get my hands on a liquid Carbon or if had I more disposable income a liquid Glass to compare the two side by side.


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

bardash said:


> Thank's I haven't seen to many posts with anyone using the Jot with tubes. I'm interested in a possible future Jot/tube combo for the HD800S.


 
 I have a Jotunheimi coming in next week. I currently have an XDA2 Gen2 i could test with, but i doubt you would be able to find one as Emotiva has stopped making them. I think it would sound great. Ive been using my HE6s on a Bryston 2blp with the XDA2 and it sounds bloody fantastic for what i paid for it ($160 vs $550new for the dac), the Stealth DC1 would be a good bet otherwise if you cant find an XDA2 (which i might add the Stealth DC1 is way smaller which could help in some situations as well.)


----------



## zeissiez

bardash said:


> bosiemoncrieff said:
> 
> 
> > It was too fatiguing even with Mimby? I have HD800, and upgrading to multibit took whatever edge I ever heard on LISST, though perhaps Jot is more fatiguing than LISST, I don't know. We're all sensitive to different things, but with classical music I find HD800 totally fine, and even most pop satisfactory.
> ...




HD800s need this amp: http://www.head-fi.org/products/ifi-pro-ican/reviews/17300


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

bardash said:


> Possibly. I wish I could get my hands on a liquid Carbon or if had I more disposable income a liquid Glass to compare the two side by side.


 
 I also have an HD800S coming in. I will be able to tell you if there is something wrong or not if i get the same trebbly result..... But then again Jude said that the HD800S was pretty forgiving with this amp, so im not sure what is going on. Maybe it could be an impedence issue. Ive had a few real crappy Attenuators that took away the low end because the variable resistors were just probably really crap


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

I always get confused when people are talking about the 800. the 800's or the 800 S? There is no way the 800 S is harsh right? Cause that sounds a lot like the 800's


----------



## Ancipital

thegadaffiduck said:


> I always get confused when people are talking about the 800. the 800's or the 800 S? There is no way the 800 S is harsh right? Cause that sounds a lot like the 800's


 
  
 Driven from a very fast, upfront SS amp, the 800S can still sound a bit tiring. The  Helmholtz resonator cancels that nasty 6kHz spike that the grey 800 has, but they still can sound a bit brittle and thin, despite the slight bloomy second harmonic distortion that they added to thicken the bass up a bit. If you were really wedded to a brutally fast SS amp, I think I'd be keener on the HD650, oddly.
  
 Don't get me wrong, if you wanted to send me a pair of black HD800S, I would be happy, accept them, and enjoy that insane cartoon sound stage... I just wouldn't plug them into my Jotunheim. They're really nice headphones. It's a really nice amp. However, they really do not compliment each other- and especially for poorly-recorded/mastered music, they will be like Kryptonite.


----------



## Maxx134

Both the 800 & 800S are agressive/forward in detailing, 
And have their upper frequency range elevated from neutral.

This makes thwm very lively cans...
There is also no denying that the 800 remains at the top of heap in resolution with only stax 009 & Utopia at its level.

The Jotun is so strong it also imparts its strong livley hard hitting character into the 800.
The 800 is forced to give a more dynamic and impactful sound.

If raised to loud volumes, Drum stick hits can and will literally make your eardrum bleed because the 800 has an extreme wide dynamic range.
Few cans can simultaneous hit as hard and fast, leaving you wondering where is the decay...

That is why the 800 does best with tubes..

Ao if you combo the Jotun with an 800 ,
Watch out for extreme dynamics.
It is very dam good stuff, but dangerous..
 lol


----------



## watchnerd

ancipital said:


> brutally fast SS amp


 
  
 What are you referring to when you say brutally fast?
  
 Damping factor? Slew rate?  Rise time on a square wave?


----------



## BarDash

thegadaffiduck said:


> I have a Jotunheimi coming in next week. I currently have an XDA2 Gen2 i could test with, but i doubt you would be able to find one as Emotiva has stopped making them. I think it would sound great. Ive been using my HE6s on a Bryston 2blp with the XDA2 and it sounds bloody fantastic for what i paid for it ($160 vs $550new for the dac), the Stealth DC1 would be a good bet otherwise if you cant find an XDA2 (which i might add the Stealth DC1 is way smaller which could help in some situations as well.)


 

 Good advice, thanks. I've also heard positive comments on the Liquid Carbon paired with the HD800S and may be in the market for a used one eventually. The Jot IMHO just does not always pair well with the HD800S's, although I enjoy it with classical and some of my blues music. Again my subjective opinion.


----------



## BarDash

maxx134 said:


> Both the 800 & 800S are agressive/forward in detailing,
> And have their upper frequency range elevated from neutral.
> 
> This makes thwm very lively cans...
> ...


 

 Well said, I'm definitely not as detailed and articulate as you but occasionally I have to drop the volume on certain tunes with the HD800S's (And Jot paired) because I feel like my heads gonna explode!


----------



## djchup

How would Jotunheim + DAC card compare to Audio-GD NFB-11?  
  
 I'm not too knowledgeable about this sort of thing and am looking to upgrade my aging NFB-12 (dual WM8741 model).  I own 600 Ohm DT990's, and have Senn HD6XX on the way.
  
 Edit: I used search and found some comparison within this thread, so sorry for not searching beforehand but I'll leave the question here in case anyone wants to comment.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I wonder how Jot with a Vali preamp (and multibit dac because why not) would handle HD800.


----------



## Ancipital

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I wonder how Jot with a Vali preamp (and multibit dac because why not) would handle HD800.


 
  
 If someone would like to lend me an unmodified HD800 (if such a thing still exists), happy to give it a whirl. I have a very nice little tube in my Vali 2, sounds nice with a fairly lean pair of HE-560


----------



## MWSVette

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I wonder how Jot with a Vali preamp (and multibit dac because why not) would handle HD800.


 
 Very good, I use a Jot with a Lyr and a Bimby to my unmodified HD800's and I love the combo.
  
 That said I never had a problem with the treble spike that bothers some.
  
 And IMHO, YMMV, yada yada yada...


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

bardash said:


> Good advice, thanks. I've also heard positive comments on the Liquid Carbon paired with the HD800S and may be in the market for a used one eventually. The Jot IMHO just does not always pair well with the HD800S's, although I enjoy it with classical and some of my blues music. Again my subjective opinion.


01


Are you using it with Single Ended or Balanced? Balanced in the Jot puts out almost a watt at 300ohms. Which might help bring the lowend up to stop the brightness.


----------



## appleidappleid

I also have a Jot with HD800S. I just feel that vocal can be a bit too harsh at times. I have ordered a tube dac to add to the system to see if the tube can warm up the vocal a bit (just a cheap Aune T1se). Otherwise I feel that the Jot is not too bad with HD800S given the price of Jot.


----------



## Atavax

lol, so my desktop speakers are pretty quiet and i've plugged them into my o2 amp and they still pretty quiet. I plug them into my Jot, no problem. not even at half vol...


----------



## watchnerd

mwsvette said:


> Very good, I use a Jot with a Lyr and a Bimby to my unmodified HD800's and I love the combo.
> 
> That said I never had a problem with the treble spike that bothers some.
> 
> And IMHO, YMMV, yada yada yada...


 
  
  


bosiemoncrieff said:


> I wonder how Jot with a Vali preamp (and multibit dac because why not) would handle HD800.


 
  
 Why do you guys want to stack preamps like that?
  
 The best circuit is an idealized "straight wire with gain", i.e. the simplest circuit possible needed to meet the goals.
  
 By adding more components you're just introducing more elements into the signal path, which adds more components that can color the sound.


----------



## BarDash

thegadaffiduck said:


> 01
> I've tried both. Currently balanced w/a MM.
> 
> 
> Are you using it with Single Ended or Balanced? Balanced in the Jot puts out almost a watt at 300ohms. Which might help bring the lowend up to stop the brightness.


----------



## franzdom

For the past few weeks I have been using the Mjolnir 2 as a pre-amp to feed tube sound to Jot, but just today removed an amp and....
  
  
 I kept the Jotunheim.
 I wonder when I will miss the tubes, so far everything sounds wonderful and the floor is as dark as you can imagine!


----------



## watchnerd

franzdom said:


> For the past few weeks I have been using the Mjolnir 2 as a pre-amp to feed tube sound to Jot, but just today removed an amp and....
> 
> 
> I kept the Jotunheim.
> I wonder when I will miss the tubes, so far everything sounds wonderful and the floor is as dark as you can imagine!


 
  
 If you wanted tube sound, why didn't you keep the Mjolnir 2?  You can swap it back and forth between tube and SS by using LISST, plus it has more power than the Jotunheim.


----------



## franzdom

I tried the LISST and didn't care for them. And, Jot has plenty of power. 
 The power ratings are VERY close and the Jot has better SNR & THD. 
 Anyway, the MJ2 is not going anywhere, it's just not hooked up for now.


----------



## Tuneslover

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I wonder how Jot with a Vali preamp (and multibit dac because why not) would handle HD800.


 
 I was intrigued by your post and thought that I would try this out.  I don't have the HD800 but I do have the HD650.  So I connected my Bifrost MB output into the Vali 2 input and then using the V2 preamp out I went into the Jotunheim SE input.  Interesting change in sound but I think the sound is cleaner just using the Jot without the Vali 2.
  
 I'm puzzled by how the electronics work when using another amp as a preamp into the another separate amp (as described above).  By connecting the V2 into the chain, which amp is acting as the preamp?  Are both the Vali 2 and the Jot preamp stages working together or is one or the other being used exclusively.  Also, I'm not sure how high to turn up the V2 or whether it or the Jot should be in high or low gain.
  
 I tried turning the V2 to mid volume (at high gain) and then adjust the Jot (high gain) accordingly.  I thought that it sounded a bit clearer when I turned down the V2's volume to about 1/3 and slightly increased the Jot volume to get back to the same volume level.
  
 I'll keep experimenting to which configuration I prefer.


----------



## watchnerd

tuneslover said:


> I'm puzzled by how the electronics work when using another amp as a preamp into the another separate amp (as described above).  By connecting the V2 into the chain, which amp is acting as the preamp?  Are both the Vali 2 and the Jot preamp stages working together or is one or the other being used exclusively.  Also, I'm not sure how high to turn up the V2 or whether it or the Jot should be in high or low gain.


 
  
 By doing this, you basically have two gain stages.  Preamp 1 is adding gain, which feeds Preamp 2, which also has gain.  How much gain each adds depend on the knobs.
  
 If these were passive devices, it wouldn't really matter.  But active gain stages add noise, so you don't want to do this unless you have a reason to.  In this case, there isn't a reason to.
  
 Reasons for stacking gain stages: phono stages (have to boost the mV output of vinyl cartridges to standard 2V used by line stages) and microphones (differences in sensitivity among mics).


----------



## franzdom

Do DAC's like Yggy have gain stage also?


----------



## Ancipital

tuneslover said:


> I was intrigued by your post and thought that I would try this out.  I don't have the HD800 but I do have the HD650.  So I connected my Bifrost MB output into the Vali 2 input and then using the V2 preamp out I went into the Jotunheim SE input.  Interesting change in sound but I think the sound is cleaner just using the Jot without the Vali 2.


 
  
 If you're going to chain them for ease of hookup, it'd make more sense to feed the Vali 2 from the pre-out of the Jot, as Jot is such a low-noise amp. Alternatively, you can just use a Sys backwards, to switch the DAC  between both amps- which will be very clean, as Sys is totally passive. Just have the knob right up on the Sys.
  
 Of course, if you're trying to "tube-ify" the Jot for some godawful reason, you'd hook them up the other way around.. but that seems a little daft.


----------



## watchnerd

franzdom said:


> Do DAC's like Yggy have gain stage also?


 
  
 Yggy, like all DACs, has an analog output stage.
  
 Generically, the output stages of of a canonical DAC include:
  
 1. Current to voltage (I-V) conversion
 2. Filters
 3. Gain stage (need to get up to line level voltage)
 4. Output buffers


----------



## Tuneslover

watchnerd said:


> By doing this, you basically have two gain stages.  Preamp 1 is adding gain, which feeds Preamp 2, which also has gain.  How much gain each adds depend on the knobs.
> 
> If these were passive devices, it wouldn't really matter.  But active gain stages add noise, so you don't want to do this unless you have a reason to.  In this case, there isn't a reason to.
> 
> Reasons for stacking gain stages: phono stages (have to boost the mV output of vinyl cartridges to standard 2V used by line stages) and microphones (differences in sensitivity among mics).


 
 I see, thanks for clarifying this for me.  I guess that explains why I initially found the sound to be cleaner and more cohesive without the Vali 2 in the chain.  However there does seem to be a bit more live-like ambience when the Vali 2 is being used as the preamp.  I found that it sounds best with the V2 in low gain and the V2 volume turned somewhere between 1/3 - 1/2 and then using the Jot to set to desired loudness.
  
 It definitely sounds different but I haven't decided if this different is better.  It is fun to experiment though.


----------



## watchnerd

tuneslover said:


> I see, thanks for clarifying this for me.  I guess that explains why I initially found the sound to be cleaner and more cohesive without the Vali 2 in the chain.  However there does seem to be a bit more live-like ambience when the Vali 2 is being used as the preamp.  I found that it sounds best with the V2 in low gain and the V2 volume turned somewhere between 1/3 - 1/2 and then using the Jot to set to desired loudness.
> 
> It definitely sounds different but I haven't decided if this different is better.  It is fun to experiment though.


 
  
 Tailoring sound to your preferences is fine, but using EQ is a much more effective (and cheaper) way to do it, rather than trying to stack electronic components (unless it's an FX box) to create a certain signature.
  
 There are known parametric EQ bands for manipulating imaging depth, transparency, warmth, detail, "air", etc.  This is what recording engineers do.


----------



## CarlosUnchained

Does a parametric EQ add noise to the chain? Any model to look for?


----------



## Tuneslover

watchnerd said:


> Tailoring sound to your preferences is fine, but using EQ is a much more effective (and cheaper) way to do it, rather than trying to stack electronic components (unless it's an FX box) to create a certain signature.
> 
> There are known parametric EQ bands for manipulating imaging depth, transparency, warmth, detail, "air", etc.  This is what recording engineers do.


 
 Indeed, good advice.  My source is a FiiO X5ii so I don't have a very sophisticated device for EQ'ing, but at least there is one on there to try.  I do have a custom setting that I use to smooth out the HD650 mid bass hump.


----------



## watchnerd

carlosunchained said:


> Does a parametric EQ add noise to the chain? Any model to look for?


 
  
 Do it in software, before D/A.
  
 If the software upsamples the bit depth first, the impact on on the noise floor should be well below audibility.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

ancipital said:


> Of course, if you're trying to "tube-ify" the Jot for some godawful reason, you'd hook them up the other way around.. but that seems a little daft.


 
 i think you'd get a poor man's MJ2 with a better implementation of solid state.
  
 I'd still advise people go straight for MJ2.


----------



## pdferguson

I haven't seen this discussed anywhere. Can you connect an iPhone directly to the Jotunheim's USB DAC using a USB - iPhone cable to play music? In other words, will the phone recognize the Jot as an external audio device when it is connected?


----------



## Ancipital

pdferguson said:


> I haven't seen this discussed anywhere. Can you connect an iPhone directly to the Jotunheim's USB DAC using a USB - iPhone cable to play music? In other words, will the phone recognize the Jot as an external audio device when it is connected?


 
  
 Yes. You'll need the Apple CCK (camera connection kit) and a standard USB host cable. iOS devices recognise the Schiit USB audio interfaces without problems, as a rule.


----------



## CarlosUnchained

ancipital said:


> Yes. You'll need the Apple CCK (camera connection kit) and a standard USB host cable. iOS devices recognise the Schiit USB audio interfaces without problems, as a rule.


 

 Basically this?


----------



## Ancipital

carlosunchained said:


> Basically this?


 
  
 Yeah, and then a USB host cable to go between that and the back of the Jot DAC. 
  
 I sometimes connect my Mimby to my iPad that way, it's pretty painless- except for when iOS and the DRM chip in the CCK don't get on.


----------



## pdferguson

ancipital said:


> Yes. You'll need the Apple CCK (camera connection kit) and a standard USB host cable. iOS devices recognise the Schiit USB audio interfaces without problems, as a rule.


 

 Thanks. I have that adapter and use it with my Parasound Zdac, but hadn't seen whether the Jotunheim DAC supported this or not (perhaps it's intrinsic to the USB audio spec, I'm not sure.)
  
 In any event, it's a really convenient way to stream from Apple Music. As I get closer to pulling the trigger on a Jotunheim, I wanted to be sure I wouldn't lose this capability.


----------



## Atavax

heh, with the balanced cables on the Jot, my HE 560 doesn't sound as bright and the soundstage issue is fixed.


----------



## Ancipital

atavax said:


> heh, with the balanced cables on the Jot, my HE 560 doesn't sound as bright and the soundstage issue is fixed.


 
  
 Yeah, that is weird- neither the HE-400i nor 560 sound quite as bright. They both benefit quite a bit from going balanced (though obviously not as much as the power hog HD650). Yet another nice surprise from the Jot.


----------



## SirRealist

ancipital said:


> Yes. You'll need the Apple CCK (camera connection kit) and a standard USB host cable. iOS devices recognise the Schiit USB audio interfaces without problems, as a rule.


 
  
 According to Schiit's site, it's potentially a little more complicated:
"Lightning connector: if you have an iPhone running iOS7 or above or iPad running iOS6 or above with the new Lightning connector, you can use the Lightning to USB Adapter from Apple, together with a powered hub to avoid the "this device draws too much power" error. You'll also need a USB cable."
  
 According to them, you need a powered USB hub to avoid that error. I have the FIIO E17k and indeed, you have to turn off it's "USB charging" option to avoid this error. Ancipital, can you confirm a USB hub is not needed (if you have such an Apple device)? I ask because I'm going to buy the same setup as you (Mimby/Jot) and I'd like to be able to run the system with my iPhone 6+ as the music player if I want to take the system away from my computer. Maybe the powered USB is only needed if you've got a DAC in the mix?


----------



## peepr

Ok so here is a hypothetical question; 
  
 If I run Modi Multibit to Jotunheim and connect balanced headphones (say he-560 or HD650 as I will have both, though only SE for now), am I actually running in balanced mode? My guess is no since the input isn't balanced as its coming out SE from the Modi. BUT, since i would be plugged into the balanced 4 pin headphone out, would my cans be getting the enhanced balanced power output? Or is that only possible when using the Jot DAC, skipping mimby?
  
 My question boils down to do I spend $250 to get the mimby upgrade to my original Modi and run SE or spend $250 to get the DAC in the Jot and balanced cables for both my cans? I don't actually have the Jot but strongly considering.


----------



## Tuneslover

peepr said:


> Ok so here is a hypothetical question;
> 
> If I run Modi Multibit to Jotunheim and connect balanced headphones (say he-560 or HD650 as I will have both, though only SE for now), am I actually running in balanced mode? My guess is no since the input isn't balanced as its coming out SE from the Modi. BUT, since i would be plugged into the balanced 4 pin headphone out, would my cans be getting the enhanced balanced power output? Or is that only possible when using the Jot DAC, skipping mimby?
> 
> My question boils down to do I spend $250 to get the mimby upgrade to my original Modi and run SE or spend $250 to get the DAC in the Jot and balanced cables for both my cans? I don't actually have the Jot but strongly considering.



My understanding is that it will not be FULLY balanced when the SE input is used but the Jot circuitry will still output balanced when the balanced output is used. Also you will get the higher output power through the balanced output.


----------



## MWSVette

peepr said:


> Ok so here is a hypothetical question;
> 
> If I run Modi Multibit to Jotunheim and connect balanced headphones (say he-560 or HD650 as I will have both, though only SE for now), am I actually running in balanced mode? My guess is no since the input isn't balanced as its coming out SE from the Modi. BUT, since i would be plugged into the balanced 4 pin headphone out, would my cans be getting the enhanced balanced power output? Or is that only possible when using the Jot DAC, skipping mimby?
> 
> My question boils down to do I spend $250 to get the mimby upgrade to my original Modi and run SE or spend $250 to get the DAC in the Jot and balanced cables for both my cans? I don't actually have the Jot but strongly considering.


 
  
  
 The Jot has fully balanced output regardless of the input being SE or balanced.


----------



## CarlosUnchained

But they perform better with balanced input.


----------



## pdferguson

sirrealist said:


> According to Schiit's site, it's potentially a little more complicated:
> "Lightning connector: if you have an iPhone running iOS7 or above or iPad running iOS6 or above with the new Lightning connector, you can use the Lightning to USB Adapter from Apple, together with a powered hub to avoid the "this device draws too much power" error. You'll also need a USB cable."
> 
> According to them, you need a powered USB hub to avoid that error. I have the FIIO E17k and indeed, you have to turn off it's "USB charging" option to avoid this error. Ancipital, can you confirm a USB hub is not needed (if you have such an Apple device)? I ask because I'm going to buy the same setup as you (Mimby/Jot) and I'd like to be able to run the system with my iPhone 6+ as the music player if I want to take the system away from my computer. Maybe the powered USB is only needed if you've got a DAC in the mix?


 

 That's a good point. My understanding is the Jotunheim's DAC is powered by the USB connection, so it may in fact not work with an iPhone without a powered hub (or if it does, will run down the iPhone's battery charge quickly). That's a bummer if true. If anyone can confirm/disconfirm, I would appreciate it.


----------



## Tomasz2D

sirrealist said:


> According to Schiit's site, it's potentially a little more complicated:
> "Lightning connector: if you have an iPhone running iOS7 or above or iPad running iOS6 or above with the new Lightning connector, you can use the Lightning to USB Adapter from Apple, together with a powered hub to avoid the "this device draws too much power" error. You'll also need a USB cable."
> 
> According to them, you need a powered USB hub to avoid that error. I have the FIIO E17k and indeed, you have to turn off it's "USB charging" option to avoid this error. Ancipital, can you confirm a USB hub is not needed (if you have such an Apple device)? I ask because I'm going to buy the same setup as you (Mimby/Jot) and I'd like to be able to run the system with my iPhone 6+ as the music player if I want to take the system away from my computer. Maybe the powered USB is only needed if you've got a DAC in the mix?


 
 Some time ago I have contacted Schiit support and they said that powered hub is required. However, I have iPad mini and it works directly just with CCK cable both with built-in Jot's DAC and with Mimby. No complains about excessive power drain. 
 Also, there is new CCK model MK0W2ZM/A to which you can attach charger together with USB data cable at the same time in the case power error occurs.


----------



## Limu Shirin

Hey guys need you help Here! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 just got the Joty couple of days ago. today I found out,
 even with no inputs connected into joty, on higher voulumes when listening with
 cans, I hear a very anooying static noise. But when I touched the joty and side panel of my PC case,
 it goes away. has anyone elese such a experience? is this a ground loop? can it be fixed?


----------



## Ancipital

limu shirin said:


> Hey guys need you help Here!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Are you using the internal DAC?


----------



## Ancipital

sirrealist said:


> According to Schiit's site, it's potentially a little more complicated:
> "Lightning connector: if you have an iPhone running iOS7 or above or iPad running iOS6 or above with the new Lightning connector, you can use the Lightning to USB Adapter from Apple, together with a powered hub to avoid the "this device draws too much power" error. You'll also need a USB cable."
> 
> According to them, you need a powered USB hub to avoid that error. I have the FIIO E17k and indeed, you have to turn off it's "USB charging" option to avoid this error. Ancipital, can you confirm a USB hub is not needed (if you have such an Apple device)? I ask because I'm going to buy the same setup as you (Mimby/Jot) and I'd like to be able to run the system with my iPhone 6+ as the music player if I want to take the system away from my computer. Maybe the powered USB is only needed if you've got a DAC in the mix?


 
  
 Oh crap, yes, I should have mentioned that. Use the new style adaptor, or Grab a Wyrd and put it in line, if you get that message. My bad. I only had a brief play with the DAC, my own Jot doesn't have one. I am an idiot!
  
 The Jot DAC draws some power over USB, I think. The Mimby doesn't- though it will use the USB VBUS to detect the connection.. it just won't really load it. I've plugged it directly into my iPad with the CCK many times, without issues.


----------



## Limu Shirin

ancipital said:


> Are you using the internal DAC?


 
 No, I'm using a seperate one. the thing is, even without any input installed, I'm still
 getting static. you think the unit is faulty?


----------



## Ancipital

limu shirin said:


> No, I'm using a seperate one. the thing is, even without any input installed, I'm still
> getting static. you think the unit is faulty?


 
  
 Possibly.
  
 Do you hear the noise with no inputs plugged in at all? Does it to it on another floor/in another building?
  
 If so, you might want to drop Schiit an email, see what they say.


----------



## Limu Shirin

ancipital said:


> Possibly.
> 
> Do you hear the noise with no inputs plugged in at all? Does it to it on another floor/in another building?
> 
> If so, you might want to drop Schiit an email, see what they say.


 

 I'll try to get a Power conditioner first, and change the RCAs with some Audioquest's.
 if not working. gonna RMA


----------



## Leonarfd

Is the DAC part powered trough the usb or the powersupply of Jutunheim? Maybe its already said but must have missed it.


----------



## tunes

Has anyone compared the Merdian Prime headphone amp/DAC to the MODI/JOT combo? Read somewhere that it was a great amomand has crossfeed ro open up some phones but not powerful enough to use with planars like HEK 1000 as a primary amp.


----------



## Kenneth Tang

limu shirin said:


> I'll try to get a Power conditioner first, and change the RCAs with some Audioquest's.
> if not working. gonna RMA




Maybe there are some RF interference gone into your system. When you touch the chassic, the RF is bypass from your hand to ground so the noise disappeared. Try to put any cell phone away from the setup. Or turn the phone into flight mode to see if the noise can be improved before sending to RMA.


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

limu shirin said:


> I'll try to get a Power conditioner first, and change the RCAs with some Audioquest's.
> if not working. gonna RMA




Avoid spending money on cables. It's probably an inproper ground or power supply in your computer that isnt filter the noise from the hardware in your computer very well, and is translating into noise that goes into whatever the hell you have plugged into that power bar. So either you are buying a 50 foot extension cable from Home Depot, and plugging your computer into an outlet in your kitchen, or you are buying this (see link).

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000OF4R8C/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B000OF4R8C&linkCode=as2&tag=wwwpuresimula-20&linkId=NBKVXK5EAVHPROG5


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

The data that is being constantly read on your drives translate to noise in a poorly filtered system. On another note, ground loops can also create noise. In somecases ground loops can happen, and some pro studio level equipment, like my Bryston 2bLP, or DI Boxes for recording have ground lift switch to break the loop that causes the noise. However ive yet to see a legitamite Audiophile piece of sh-- i mean equipment provide something like that.


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

Shoot. I know ive posted like three comments in a row, but it should worth asking, how long are the cables you are running? I would suggest, if you do decide to replace your interconnections, get some XLRs for the Jot off of Amazon, because balanced connection are better for keeping out interference, and can be run much longer lengths without interference


----------



## Ancipital

limu shirin said:


> I'll try to get a Power conditioner first, and change the RCAs with some Audioquest's.
> if not working. gonna RMA


 
  
 I wouldn't suggest fanciful boutique cables as a solution- save your money.


----------



## jchandler3

limu shirin said:


> I'll try to get a Power conditioner first, and change the RCAs with some Audioquest's.
> if not working. gonna RMA




If you're hearing it with no inputs, it would have nothing to do with your RCA interconnects, so don't waste money there. 

As far as power goes, make sure you try it without a surge protector. If you still have noise, try an outlet on a different circuit. If you still have noise, try to turn off anything/everything around it (just to rule out interference).


----------



## AOARoses

leonarfd said:


> Is the DAC part powered trough the usb or the powersupply of Jutunheim? Maybe its already said but must have missed it.


 
 Seemed like through the usb because it looked to me nothing is connected to the DAC part except for the usb


----------



## Limu Shirin

Thanks for all the advice guys. I'm using the Jot with HA-2, since it doesn't
 have the DAC module. and yes the computer is noisy when use the onboard sound card(which is dumb, I know)
 So noisy that i can head the digital mouse movement registerations.
 But even with using the HA-2 I'm still getting some, and without any input I still hear interference from where I don't know...
  


thegadaffiduck said:


> Avoid spending money on cables. It's probably an inproper ground or power supply in your computer that isnt filter the noise from the hardware in your computer very well, and is translating into noise that goes into whatever the hell you have plugged into that power bar. So either you are buying a 50 foot extension cable from Home Depot, and plugging your computer into an outlet in your kitchen, or you are buying this (see link).
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000OF4R8C/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B000OF4R8C&linkCode=as2&tag=wwwpuresimula-20&linkId=NBKVXK5EAVHPROG5


 

 Unfortunetaly I'm in Germany, meaning that power outlet is not gonna work. i also tried jot in other rooms, still got the same crappy noise.
 I hope a power conditioner works, otherwise RMA is my only option. Still pying 150 euros for a power conditioner hurts...
 and you all are right about not spending on RCA cables, but i really wanna narrow down the problem for my future buys.
 thank you all


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

limu shirin said:


> Thanks for all the advice guys. I'm using the Jot with HA-2, since it doesn't
> have the DAC module. and yes the computer is noisy when use the onboard sound card(which is dumb, I know)
> So noisy that i can head the digital mouse movement registerations.
> But even with using the HA-2 I'm still getting some, and without any input I still hear interference from where I don't know...
> ...




Yeah, try a power conditioner first. If it still happens, maybe contact Customer Service for Schiit Audio to see what they say


----------



## Limu Shirin

thegadaffiduck said:


> Yeah, try a power conditioner first. If it still happens, maybe contact Customer Service for Schiit Audio to see what they say


 

 certainly gonna do everything to keep the Jot, since the price is a still for what it offers,
 balanced connection and lots of power, the other contender might be Fostex hp-a4bl


----------



## thefitz

Curious - we all know the HE-6 is a peculiar beast, but I've noticed that the Jotunheim seems to get a shrug, and the Lyr seems to get a thumbs down. Yet, the Lyr puts out a full watt (i.e. 33%) more at 50 single-ended than the Joty does balanced. Is there something in the balanced mystique that makes the Joty more desirable than something a full watt more powerful?


----------



## Naim.F.C

Random question, if I get one of these with the DAC built in, am I able to play music off of my Galaxy S7 Edge whilst connected to it via USB, bypassing the S7 Edge's internal DAC, and instead using the Jotunheim's DAC (and obviously amp) instead? Sounds weird to want to play music from a phone, but there are times where in bed, I'd rather just connect my phone to a DAC/amp as oppose to my larger, more cumbersome laptop. If I buy the Jotunheim, it will essentially be used as a bedside DAC/amp combo.


----------



## ProtegeManiac

Quote:


naim.f.c said:


> Sounds weird to want to play music from a phone, but there are times where in bed, I'd rather just connect my phone to a DAC/amp as oppose to my larger, more cumbersome laptop.


  
 I've been using smartphones as music servers for over four years. When my CDP and CD transport died on me in 2010 and 2011 I used computers, but both my laptop and desktop had fans that were audible late at night.  The smartphones have no such problems. And while initially the S3 had a problem with some DACs that required special drivers, the latest Neutron drivers actually allows the Note3 and my S5 to work with such DACs (no idea about the old SGS3 though, I gave that to my cousin).
  


  
  



naim.f.c said:


> Random question, if I get one of these with the DAC built in, am I able to play music off of my Galaxy S7 Edge whilst connected to it via USB, bypassing the S7 Edge's internal DAC, and instead using the Jotunheim's DAC (and obviously amp) instead?


 
  
 The problem there I think is that the Jotunheim USB DAC module isn't getting power from the amp's power supply, and if so, then it's dependent on USB power, which a smartphone might not be able to deliver. I could be wrong though. Generally however everything from the SGS3 and Note2 onwards have no compatibility problems as long as the DAC uses generic USB drivers and require very little power (the Meier amp above needs it only for the indicator lamp), but again the Note3 actually works with no fuss vs my Win7 laptop.


----------



## Limu Shirin

So, that little guy saved my Jot from getting sent back, It's a 3.5mm noise Filter (13€). Using HA-2 as a dac, the floor is dead silent, but if I
 Connect Jot directly to the PC (PC line out I mean,which is dumb), even with the noise filter, I'm still hearing interference.
 Fun Fact: as everybody here said, there was no difference between the 40€ audioquest cable and 6€ kabeldirekt branded one.


----------



## Naim.F.C

protegemaniac said:


> The problem there I think is that the Jotunheim USB DAC module isn't getting power from the amp's power supply, and if so, then it's dependent on USB power, which a smartphone might not be able to deliver. I could be wrong though. Generally however everything from the SGS3 and Note2 onwards have no compatibility problems as long as the DAC uses generic USB drivers and require very little power (the Meier amp above needs it only for the indicator lamp), but again the Note3 actually works with no fuss vs my Win7 laptop.


 
  
 Interesting. I guess I better email Schiit to find out. If not, I might give the Modi 2U (or Multibit) and Magni 2U combo a go. Bit of a shame I'll miss out on the balanced XLR, but I don't want to spend more than $500 for a convenient additional bedside set up, when I do actually still have a full on set up.


----------



## ld100

protegemaniac said:


> The problem there I think is that the Jotunheim USB DAC module isn't getting power from the amp's power supply, and if so, then it's dependent on USB power, which a smartphone might not be able to deliver. I could be wrong though. Generally however everything from the SGS3 and Note2 onwards have no compatibility problems as long as the DAC uses generic USB drivers and require very little power (the Meier amp above needs it only for the indicator lamp), but again the Note3 actually works with no fuss vs my Win7 laptop.




What are two dacs in pictures? Silver one looks very interesting...


----------



## erics75

If the Samsung doesn't work due to power draw issues simply add a powered USB hub, it's cheap and works great. Then you don't have to give up on the jot


----------



## CarlosUnchained

Crazy idea here: What about a chromecast audio (for example, just a bluetooth receiver with optical out)?
  
 It wouldn't be easier?


----------



## Naim.F.C

erics75 said:


> If the Samsung doesn't work due to power draw issues simply add a powered USB hub, it's cheap and works great. Then you don't have to give up on the jot


 
  
 Would these do the trick?
  
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Anker-Ultra-Slim-Adapter-Charger-Included/dp/B0192LVM86/ref=sr_1_15?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1479757225&sr=1-15&keywords=usb+powered+hub
 
https://www.amazon.co.uk/SODIAL-Type-Female-Male-Adapter/dp/B00ALPX7JK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1479757978&sr=8-2&keywords=USB+A+Female+to+B+Male+Adapter#customerReviews


----------



## erics75

the anker 4 port hub is just the thing you'll need. that will alleviate any excess power consumption issues the jot might have with the phone.


----------



## gmahler2u

Hi everyone..
  
 I have a question for all of you....First, I have Jot and Bimby combo.  However, Bimby doesn't have USB port, instead it has optical.
 I would like to plug optical into PC, my question is "Is this possible or not possible"
  
 If possible how,
  
 Thank you


----------



## theveterans

gmahler2u said:


> Hi everyone..
> 
> I have a question for all of you....First, I have Jot and Bimby combo.  However, Bimby doesn't have USB port, instead it has optical.
> I would like to plug optical into PC, my question is "Is this possible or not possible"
> ...


 
  
 Wyred 4 sound uLink is your solution. It's a USB to 3 SPDIF output (1 BNC, 1 Optical, 1 RCA)


----------



## Maelob

The easiest answer would be to get an usb/spdif converter - a lot of versions out there - you can probably get a very good deal on a used one.  Wyred4sound ulink has optical out.  By the way I thought the Bitfrost had usb input.


----------



## jimmers

gmahler2u said:


> ...  However, Bimby doesn't have USB port, instead it has optical.
> I would like to plug optical into PC, my question is "Is this possible or not possible"


 
 How come Bimby doesn't have a USB? If you have a regular PC then you could use a soundcard that has optical out - I use an Asus Xonar STX that has optical and Coax, but there are cheaper cards with just optical out.


----------



## theveterans

maelob said:


> The easiest answer would be to get an usb/spdif converter - a lot of versions out there - you can probably get a very good deal on a used one.  Wyred4sound ulink has optical out.  By the way I thought the Bitfrost had usb input.


 
  
 USB was optional for Bifrost back then until 4490 or 4396 came.


----------



## jimmers

theveterans said:


> USB was optional for Bifrost back then until 4490 or 4396 came.


 
 But, Bimby is the Bifrost Multibit it has USB.


----------



## theveterans

jimmers said:


> But, Bimby is the Bifrost Multibit it has USB.


 
  
 If the previous owner had the original Bifrost board without the USB see below (credit to @Torq for pics), that owner can send the board to Schiit to upgrade the firmware for multibit. It essentially becomes a Multibit without USB.


----------



## gmahler2u

theveterans said:


> Wyred 4 sound uLink is your solution. It's a USB to 3 SPDIF output (1 BNC, 1 Optical, 1 RCA)


 
  
  
 Thank you very much...


----------



## gmahler2u

jimmers said:


> But, Bimby is the Bifrost Multibit it has USB.


 
 When I first bought Bifrost, they didn't have Multibit..USB, I didn't get it, no money for it, Optical has better sound..


----------



## ProtegeManiac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Naim.F.C* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Interesting. I guess I better email Schiit to find out. If not, I might give the Modi 2U (or Multibit) and Magni 2U combo a go. Bit of a shame I'll miss out on the balanced XLR, but I don't want to spend more than $500 for a convenient additional bedside set up, when I do actually still have a full on set up. 

  You can spend just a little bit more and use the Schiit Decrapifier as a USB power source if the Jotunheim's DAC module is dependent on USB power.
 
 
 
Quote:


ld100 said:


> What are two dacs in pictures? Silver one looks very interesting...
 
 
Black is Pangea HP101, still available on Amazon for under $100. The silver amp is the Meier Cantate.2 (USB DAC is only 16/44.1 to 48), already discontinued but Meier sells the Jazz and Classic along with the DACcord.


----------



## dongster

Jotunheim vs V100 vs G109p? only those who have heard at least 2 please. looking for a one fit all solution.  
 Note: im fully aware of the power spec differences, balanced in/out differences.
  
 are they in the *same league?*
*are there headphones that only ship with 4pin xlr?*


----------



## Naim.F.C

protegemaniac said:


> You can spend just a little bit more and use the Schiit Decrapifier as a USB power source if the Jotunheim's DAC module is dependent on USB power. 
  
 I can't believe the Decrapifier is a legitimate product name lol. Had to google it to be sure.

 Anyway I ordered the Fostex HP-A4BL in the interim. If I can procure a Jotunheim as well, I'll do a comparison between the two, as well as reviews of each. From the specs alone, it seems the Jotunheim has a tonne more power, but from what I've read from online impressions, that doesn't necessarily translate to such a gulf in real world listening and volume. Also, from what I can gather the Jotunheim offers a fairly articulate and detailed presentation, whilst the HP-A4BL is a little warmer. What I'm most interested to see is how the balanced outputs fair from each.


----------



## thefitz

It appears that the expansion slot of the Jotunheim doesn't have its own power supply. The DAC module is USB powered, and the phono preamp is passive. I wonder, what other modules can be put in there without its own power supply?
  
 Digital Coax and Optical need not apply, unless Schiit offers an expansion slot power upgrade/or includes its own power supply with the expansion card via wall-wart.
  
 As an aside - are there any DAPs that support USB-OTG? I'm currently using a FiiO X5 via coax through a Bifrost, and am interested to use the USB DAC on the Jotunheim to go 100% balanced (which still confuses me a bit).


----------



## nerone

thefitz said:


> It appears that the expansion slot of the Jotunheim doesn't have its own power supply. The DAC module is USB powered, and the phono preamp is passive. I wonder, what other modules can be put in there without its own power supply?
> 
> Digital Coax and Optical need not apply, unless Schiit offers an expansion slot power upgrade/or includes its own power supply with the expansion card via wall-wart.
> 
> As an aside - are there any DAPs that support USB-OTG? I'm currently using a FiiO X5 via coax through a Bifrost, and am interested to use the USB DAC on the Jotunheim to go 100% balanced (which still confuses me a bit).


 

 I think the USB controller is powered by the USB port. The DAC chip and analog section is powered by the internal power supply. I'm almost sure I read Jason say this in one of the posts here or in another forum I read.
 The same for the phono preamp, it wouldn't provide the necessary gain without any power provided to it.


----------



## thefitz

nerone said:


> I think the USB controller is powered by the USB port. The DAC chip and analog section is powered by the internal power supply. I'm almost sure I read Jason say this in one of the posts here or in another forum I read.
> The same for the phono preamp, it wouldn't provide the necessary gain without any power provided to it.


 

 Very interesting - I guess "fully passive" in the context of a phono preamp requires context. I just wonder what the possibilities are for future upgrades. I bet people would lose their **** over a multibit option, but I wonder how much they can get away with without using a second power source.
  
 But hey - an expansion slot requiring its own wall wart is okay by me.


----------



## ProtegeManiac

thefitz said:


> It appears that the expansion slot of the Jotunheim doesn't have its own power supply. The DAC module is USB powered, and the phono preamp is passive. I wonder, what other modules can be put in there without its own power supply?
> 
> Digital Coax and Optical need not apply, unless Schiit offers an expansion slot power upgrade/or includes its own power supply with the expansion card via wall-wart.
> 
> As an aside - are there any DAPs that support USB-OTG? I'm currently using a FiiO X5 via coax through a Bifrost, and am interested to use the USB DAC on the Jotunheim to go 100% balanced (which still confuses me a bit).


 

 ​Non-fullsize computers - ie, tablets and smartphones - theoretically should still work with  the Jotunheim with an additional USB power supply like the Schiit Decrapifier or that other galvanized USB power isolator.


----------



## squirrelman

Has anyone used the Jotunheim as a pre amp between a higher end DAC and amp for passive speakers?  I just picked up a pair of LCD-2 from the B-Stock sale, so it's time to grab and amp for them.  I've got a Lampizator Euforia DAC feeding a Don Garber Fi-X 2A3 amp feeding my speakers.  The Fi-X is an "integrated" as it has a passive volume control to it, and using that sounds amazing.  
  
 So what I was thinking was getting the Jotunheim w/ Phono (for later use) and sticking it inbetween the Lampi and the Fi-X and using it as a pre-amp instead of the control on the Fi-X.  Do you think that this would degrade the sound any for the Fi-X, since it's not first and foremost a preamp?  I don't really have the room or budget right now to buy a full fledged real pre-amp or much more expensive headphone amp.


----------



## earsandshit

So Jotunheim or Vali 2 / Magni 2 Uber and Modi 2 Multibit combo for HD 650?


----------



## Tuneslover

I have all devices you mentioned in your post, but sold the Magni2U when I got the Jot. The Jot and Modi MB sounds best to me.


----------



## earsandshit

tuneslover said:


> I have all devices you mentioned in your post, but sold the Magni2U when I got the Jot. The Jot and Modi MB sounds best to me.


 
  
 So you are using Jotunheim only as an amplifier? I was referring to the combo which has the DAC included.


----------



## Tuneslover

earsandshit said:


> So Jotunheim or Vali 2 / Magni 2 Uber and Modi 2 Multibit combo for HD 650?



Oh sorry about that, yes my Jot is amp only. Didn't need another DAC as I already have the Modi MB, Bifrost MB and Bifrost 4490.




earsandshit said:


> So you are using Jotunheim only as an amplifier? I was referring to the combo which has the DAC included.


----------



## earsandshit

tuneslover said:


> Oh sorry about that, yes my Jot is amp only. Didn't need another DAC as I already have the Modi MB, Bifrost MB and Bifrost 4490.


 
  
 I have no idea what to buy anymore .


----------



## jimmers

thefitz said:


> Very interesting - I guess "fully passive" in the context of a phono preamp requires context.


 
 "Optional *Passive Filtered* Phono Stage:"
"Topology: Fully *passive RIAA network* with AD8599 gain stages and PET film capacitors throughout, DC coupled, with DC servo"


----------



## droopy1592

earsandshit said:


> So Jotunheim or Vali 2 / Magni 2 Uber and Modi 2 Multibit combo for HD 650?



I have both and the Jot sounds so much better than the magni 2u

The modi mb is amazing


----------



## naif1985

Is it going to be a good amp for my hd700 ☺️


----------



## MWSVette

naif1985 said:


> Is it going to be a good amp for my hd700 ☺️


 
 I like it with mine...


----------



## naif1985

mwsvette said:


> I like it with mine...


 
I notice you have lyr witch one is better ?


----------



## MWSVette

naif1985 said:


> I notice you have lyr witch one is better ?


 
  
 As with many things in this hobby like like them for different reasons one is not better than the other.
  
 You can alter the sound signature with various tubes with the Lyr.  The Jot is balanced.  Both are good matches for the HD700's.
  
 Of course IMHO, YMMV, yada yada yada...


----------



## inanevoyage

squirrelman said:


> Has anyone used the Jotunheim as a pre amp between a higher end DAC and amp for passive speakers?  I just picked up a pair of LCD-2 from the B-Stock sale, so it's time to grab and amp for them.  I've got a Lampizator Euforia DAC feeding a Don Garber Fi-X 2A3 amp feeding my speakers.  The Fi-X is an "integrated" as it has a passive volume control to it, and using that sounds amazing.
> 
> So what I was thinking was getting the Jotunheim w/ Phono (for later use) and sticking it inbetween the Lampi and the Fi-X and using it as a pre-amp instead of the control on the Fi-X.  Do you think that this would degrade the sound any for the Fi-X, since it's not first and foremost a preamp?  I don't really have the room or budget right now to buy a full fledged real pre-amp or much more expensive headphone amp.


 

 I'm in a similar spot, having picked up some LCD-2s from the B-Stock sale. I just placed an order for the Jotunheim with DAC. I don't know about using it as a pre-amp, but this is going to be my entire rig. It's replacing some 600ohm DT880s with a Fiio E12.


----------



## chenszhanx

nerone said:


> I think the USB controller is powered by the USB port. The DAC chip and analog section is powered by the internal power supply. I'm almost sure I read Jason say this in one of the posts here or in another forum I read.
> The same for the phono preamp, it wouldn't provide the necessary gain without any power provided to it.


 
 I think this is the case.
  
 I tried wyrd at local store with my own Jotunheim /w DAC for 2 hours.I can't tell the difference.
 But also tried DragonFly Red. DFR gets a lot improvement from wyrd.
  
 I tried these with Surface pro 3 which has poor usb power (can't power a DVD writer) and balanced MDR-Z7.
  
 I am using Jotunheim balanced line preamp out as XLR phoneout.
 But local store staff told me preamp out is not as good as phoneout in the front.
  
 Is this true? Aren’t they just parallel?


----------



## Alchemist007

It had been a while since I used my Ember since I had gotten the Jot, and I was again reminded why I so really like a tubey option with some music, the 6dj8 is one of my favorites.


----------



## iamxLn

alchemist007 said:


> It had been a while since I used my Ember since I had gotten the Jot, and I was again reminded why I so really like a tubey option with some music, the 6dj8 is one of my favorites.


 
 i'd love to hear your brief non scientific comparison between the two. i have a jot and love it for it's resolving nature, but i'd like a little more oomph and sound stage. always wanted an ember, but got jot last minute.


----------



## Alchemist007

iamxln said:


> i'd love to hear your brief non scientific comparison between the two. i have a jot and love it for it's resolving nature, but i'd like a little more oomph and sound stage. always wanted an ember, but got jot last minute.


 
 The Ember has a way of taking the edge off and making things smoother, so music that's too sharp on the Jot can benefit the most.The soundstage _in general_ is taller and a slight bit more narrow, by how much depends on which tube is used, same thing for clarity. Bass impact isn't much different, but its clarity is smoother and not as textured; and _depending on the music_ this can be a good thing. I have niche tastes but to give an example, I prefer the entire "MegaZone 23 Vocal Collection" out of the Ember.


----------



## ruinevil

The main reason I'd get the Jotunheim would be to preamp my studio monitors. 

Is the noise floor between the Modi multibit and Jotunheim low enough to prevent the buzz. I know using balanced outputs from audio interfaces will prevent it.


----------



## theveterans

ruinevil said:


> The main reason I'd get the Jotunheim would be to preamp my studio monitors.
> 
> Is the noise floor between the Modi multibit and Jotunheim low enough to prevent the buzz. I know using balanced outputs from audio interfaces will prevent it.


 
  
 IMO, I prefer the traditional design preamp like the Schiit Saga rather than sharing the same output stage from the headphone amp like the Jotunheim or any other Schiit headphone amps.


----------



## CarlosUnchained

ruinevil said:


> The main reason I'd get the Jotunheim would be to preamp my studio monitors.
> 
> Is the noise floor between the Modi multibit and Jotunheim low enough to prevent the buzz. I know using balanced outputs from audio interfaces will prevent it.


 

 The Jot has shown to be dead silent with the most sensitive IEMs. I'd expect to do great as a preamp for out OutEarMonitors.


----------



## ruinevil

More the unbalanced Modi.


----------



## Alchemist007

Has anyone tried the Lake People RS-08? Interested in hearing comparisons between that and the Jot.


----------



## Ancipital

ruinevil said:


> The main reason I'd get the Jotunheim would be to preamp my studio monitors.
> 
> Is the noise floor between the Modi multibit and Jotunheim low enough to prevent the buzz. I know using balanced outputs from audio interfaces will prevent it.


 
  
 I can't be faffed to read back in the thread to find out what this "buzz" is, but I have a Mimby plugged into a Jot, which is plugged into some powered nearfields (old Adam A5), and it sounds completely fine- nice fast amp driving crisp speakers, and no noise issues at any part of the chain. I just plugged IEMs into the Jot to check, and it's still remarkably quiet.
  
 Not sure if that helps answer your question or not


----------



## jamescheru

I was almost certain of the Schiit Jotunheim, then came a though of buying a class A amplifier.
  
 Is the Asgard 2 any better that the Jotunheim ?
  
 I currently use Astell & Kern AK Jr paired with my Hifiman he-400i, I'm looking for a desktop amplifier which will sound better that the AK.
  
 I'm planning to add HD650 and Audeze LCD-2 to my collection sometime next year.


----------



## zeissiez

jamescheru said:


> I was almost certain of the Schiit Jotunheim, then came a though of buying a class A amplifier.
> 
> Is the Asgard 2 any better that the Jotunheim ?
> 
> ...




So many low cost options out there. U got to first decide to go single ended or balanced.


----------



## cskippy

While I have no doubt the Asgard 2 is good, the Jotunheim is also fantastic and far more versatile. It plays well with the most sensitive IEMs to the hardest to drive planars. I would vote Jot especially considering the last two headphones you meantioned.


----------



## CarlosUnchained

This is a comparison between the NFB-28 and the Jot by k4rstar:
   


> _Still think you should go for the NFB, it is the better sounding amp and DAC regardless of pairing. *The Jot has a flat, 2D sound-stage depth that apparently some people cannot hear but is a massive dealbreaker for me, it almost made me nauseous at times. It also has the effect of smearing or panning vocals across your jaw, which doesn't make sense because the rest of the presentation is so upfront.* On the NFB the center image is much more focused and clearly defined. It also has greater power on tap for planars, just make sure you get a balanced cable._
> 
> _Final note, the volume control is much better on the NFB. It has a smoother pot and the way the volume control is implemented allows for greater detail and dynamics to be retained at lower listening volumes. *On the flipside the Jot has an annoying pot and a slight haze in the midrange made worse by the smearing I mentioned earlier, so I was constantly turning up the volume to compensate. This isn't good because of it's aggressive tone, and the end result is fatigue even in short sessions with darker headphones.*_


 
  
 Any Jot owner find the same problems?


----------



## earnmyturns

jamescheru said:


> I was almost certain of the Schiit Jotunheim, then came a though of buying a class A amplifier.
> 
> Is the Asgard 2 any better that the Jotunheim ?


 
 No, at least with MrSpeakers Ether C Flows. It's not just the balanced output, either. I felt that the Jotunheim had more extended bass and more accurate upper-mid range, for instance in loud piano passages. Don't get me wrong, the Asgard 2 is a very nice amp, but the Jotunheim's improvements are (at least to me) very well worth the price difference. I also have a Cavalli Liquid Carbon v2, twice as expensive as the Jotunheim. They are different (LC lusher, deeper; Jotunheim more neutral and more accurate), both very enjoyable, but I can't say that the LC is worth the extra cost for me. YMMV.


----------



## watchnerd

jamescheru said:


> I was almost certain of the Schiit Jotunheim, then came a though of buying a class A amplifier.
> 
> Is the Asgard 2 any better that the Jotunheim ?


 
  
 Sure, it's cheaper.
  
 And if it has enough power for your cans, and you don't need balanced, why spend more?


----------



## zeissiez

carlosunchained said:


> This is a comparison between the NFB-28 and the Jot by k4rstar:
> 
> 
> > _Still think you should go for the NFB, it is the better sounding amp and DAC regardless of pairing. *The Jot has a flat, 2D sound-stage depth that apparently some people cannot hear but is a massive dealbreaker for me, it almost made me nauseous at times. It also has the effect of smearing or panning vocals across your jaw, which doesn't make sense because the rest of the presentation is so upfront.* On the NFB the center image is much more focused and clearly defined. It also has greater power on tap for planars, just make sure you get a balanced cable._
> ...




I have heard many of Schiit and AGD amps and DACs. Overall, I found AGD amps to be of higher fidelity, and Schiit Multibit DACs are better. AGD goes back to the basic in amp design, good power supply and simple amplification stage design, resulting in overall higher fidelity, No ffancy marketing ****. And now AGD and Schiit are not the only options. Gustard A20H is simply awesome.


----------



## earnmyturns

carlosunchained said:


> This is a comparison between the NFB-28 and the Jot by k4rstar:
> 
> Any Jot owner find the same problems?


 
 I've listened to many hours of jazz and classical with FLAC>Roon>Sonore microRendu+UpTone LPS-1>Bifrost Multibit>Jot>MrSpeakers Ether C Flow. Zero fatigue. Sure, soundstage is not as 3D or stable as on my way, way more expensive speaker system, but it's in no way oppressive or disorienting.


----------



## jimmers

carlosunchained said:


> This is a comparison between the NFB-28 and the Jot by k4rstar:
> 
> Any Jot owner find the same problems?


 
 "_*It also has the effect of smearing or panning vocals across your jaw*_"
  
 I have no idea what he is talking about, listening to vocals with HD650 balanced on Jot from Bifrost multibit -  I've got nothing happening across my jaw 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Either I have strange perceptions or ...


----------



## BarDash

Anyone own the Jot & Ifi Pro Ican? Thoughts? 
TIA


----------



## Voxata

I own Mimby/Jot and the iDSD. The Jot combo balanced is intensely superior.


----------



## Voxata

Lol just..no.




carlosunchained said:


> This is a comparison between the NFB-28 and the Jot by k4rstar:
> 
> Any Jot owner find the same problems?


----------



## MWSVette

carlosunchained said:


> This is a comparison between the NFB-28 and the Jot by k4rstar:
> 
> Any Jot owner find the same problems?


 
 I have never heard the NFB-28 but I do have a Jot.
  
 So, no...


----------



## CarlosUnchained

Thanks for all the answers. I'm going for it!


----------



## valarking

Mine died a week and a half ago. Schiit took 4 days to get back to my service request, after which I'd already left for holiday vacation. Just got the email telling me to pay to send it in to them myself.
  
 Buyer beware I guess. It was great when it worked, for what it's worth.


----------



## Starcruncher

bardash said:


> Anyone own the Jot & Ifi Pro Ican? Thoughts?
> TIA


 
  
 I am interested also. They seem to have similar philosophies.


----------



## zeissiez

bardash said:


> Anyone own the Jot & Ifi Pro Ican? Thoughts?
> TIA



Here's a review:
http://www.head-fi.org/products/ifi-pro-ican/reviews/17300


----------



## MWSVette

valarking said:


> Mine died a week and a half ago. Schiit took 4 days to get back to my service request, after which I'd already left for holiday vacation. Just got the email telling me to pay to send it in to them myself.
> 
> Buyer beware I guess. It was great when it worked, for what it's worth.


 
 Quoted from the Schiit website FAQ;
WARRANTY & RETURNS     
Who pays shipping if I need warranty service?
 You pay shipping to us, and we pay shipping back, unless no fault is found. In that case you pay shipping both ways. 


   
  
 Why the surprise.  The policy is well posted.  If its is an under warranty repair, they fix it and ship it back to you. Most companies warranties operate the same way.
  
 And it will be great again when you get it back.


----------



## BarDash

starcruncher said:


> I am interested also. They seem to have similar philosophies.



I get my ICAN this week that's why I ask, will be most likely putting my Jot up for sale. Was just wondering if anyone had both and what their thoughts were.


----------



## BarDash

zeissiez said:


> Here's a review:
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/ifi-pro-ican/reviews/17300



Thanks...


----------



## Ancipital

jimmers said:


> "_*It also has the effect of smearing or panning vocals across your jaw*_"
> 
> I have no idea what he is talking about, listening to vocals with HD650 balanced on Jot from Bifrost multibit -  I've got nothing happening across my jaw
> 
> ...


 
  
 I don't know, a lot of sound stage perception is very variable between individuals, as it's a complex pyscho-acoustic extrapolation/decoding process- maybe it does to that person?
  
 For what it's worth, a lot of people find the Jot's sound stage is quite wide, but shallow, often almost on a plane bisecting the listener's head. Maybe they were hearing a variant of this?
  
 (Doesn't mean that it can't be enjoyable. Hang a Vali 2 with an EH6GC7 off the pre-amp outs if you want a simple way to get a smoother, deeper alternate sound stage for occasional use, though. Cheap and effective.)


----------



## valarking

mwsvette said:


> Quoted from the Schiit website FAQ;
> WARRANTY & RETURNS
> Who pays shipping if I need warranty service?
> You pay shipping to us, and we pay shipping back, unless no fault is found. In that case you pay shipping both ways.
> ...


 
  
 I am well aware, never said I was surprised. I just don't like paying for the QC shortcoming from any cost cutting they might have done to reach that price point. For comparison, Sennheiser has a similar policy but when I had an issue with my HD600, they immediately sent me a shipping label. Logitech did the same for a faulty mouse. You can only really do that if you have faith in your product's quality, otherwise it's a pretty big risk. Either way, it doesn't justify waiting several days for responses from support. What's the point of buying from an American boutique seller if you get the Chinese manufacturer experience?


----------



## BarDash

Amazon usually supplies UPS labels on returns, it's hard to find anyone else that does IMO.


----------



## Ancipital

valarking said:


> What's the point of buying from an American boutique seller if you get the Chinese manufacturer experience?


 
  
 I'm not sure that they're exactly "boutique". They build to a carefully controlled cost, and scale their manufacturing to ship a surprising quantity of units. "Boutique" is paying thousands for an amp (often built to order and specific preferences) not paying $400, or in the case of the wonderful Vali 2, $169.
  
 Gawd love Schiit, they're many things- disruptive, clever, innovative, and honest.. They make some nice-sounding gear for a lot less than a lot of the more established incumbents, but a boutique? Not so much. That signature bit of modest curved steel rather gives the game away.


----------



## Alchemist007

Would this work if I wanted to take a Mimby's RCA out to the Jot and another amp?
 http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=7187


----------



## valarking

ancipital said:


> I'm not sure that they're exactly "boutique". They build to a carefully controlled cost, and scale their manufacturing to ship a surprising quantity of units. "Boutique" is paying thousands for an amp (usually built to order and specific preferences) not paying $400, or in the case of the wonderful Vali 2, $169.
> 
> Gawd love Schiit, they're many things- disruptive, clever, innovative, and honest.. They make some nice-sounding gear for a lot less than a lot of the more established incumbents, but a boutique? Not so much.


 

 While this is rapidly approaching irrelevant territory, I do routinely hear them described as boutique. You don't have to pay thousands to be boutique. Doesn't really matter that much though.
  
 Either way, lesson learned. Buy through Amazon and pay a few bucks more for a reasonable lemon process or don't buy from them at all.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

To clarify repairs:
  
 1. If the product is DOA or has a problem within the first 15 days, we do what is called a "rapid return/replace," in which we supply a shipping label and send the replacement as soon as the faulty product has been deposited at the shipper.
 2. If it's beyond that time, yes, standard warranty terms apply.
 3. 4 days for a repair acknowledgement? Unless the request came in late Wednesday (in which case, yes, maybe we actually do take Thanksgiving, but we also usually answer emails on weekends). I'd like to see the actual emails on that.


----------



## valarking

jason stoddard said:


> To clarify repairs:
> 
> 1. If the product is DOA or has a problem within the first 15 days, we do what is called a "rapid return/replace," in which we supply a shipping label and send the replacement as soon as the faulty product has been deposited at the shipper.
> 2. If it's beyond that time, yes, standard warranty terms apply.
> 3. 4 days for a repair acknowledgement? Unless the request came in late Wednesday (in which case, yes, maybe we actually do take Thanksgiving, but we also usually answer emails on weekends). I'd like to see the actual emails on that.


 

 With regards to number 3, I sent the support request in via the online form on Friday 11/18, tried the support@schiit.com on Monday 11/21 after hearing nothing (bounced back), emailed info@schiit.com on Tuesday 11/22 and got a "I don't see your request, is the voltage right" one sentence reply, sent a full description of the problem at 2:30 on Tuesday, hadn't received any response at noon on Wednesday 11/23 so I sent a "please give me an update because I have to leave for holidays soon and would like to get this sent out" email, received a "sounds like you need to go to this link and submit a service request" email at 2:30pm after I had left. Got home on Sunday 11/27, started service request, and will ship out today 11/28.
  
 So the 4 days was the time between my first attempts to contact you guys and when I received my first response. Might want to check the support form thing, as it definitely failed silently for me.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Aha. Yes, if we don't get a valid email from the support form, then we won't be able to contact you. I'll have our guys add a second email entry confirmation/validation to the form. Because forms are usually answered in minutes or hours.


----------



## valarking

jason stoddard said:


> Aha. Yes, if we don't get a valid email from the support form, then we won't be able to contact you. I'll have our guys add a second email entry confirmation/validation to the form. Because forms are usually answered in minutes or hours.


 

 Yeah. There are some users posting on reddit about having the same issue with it, so it might be worth looking into. Would have saved me a ton of hassle, but my Jot is in the mail now so I'm trying to just chill out and look forward to a working one again.


----------



## inanevoyage

valarking said:


> For comparison, Sennheiser has a similar policy but when I had an issue with my HD600, they immediately sent me a shipping label. Logitech did the same for a faulty mouse. What's the point of buying from an American boutique seller if you get the Chinese manufacturer experience?


 

 You're comparing a small, disruptive startup to Sennheiser and Logitech? And bitching that they don't auto print you a shipping label? What in the hell are you smoking?


----------



## thefitz

inanevoyage said:


> You're comparing a small, disruptive startup to Sennheiser and Logitech? And bitching that they don't auto print you a shipping label? What in the hell are you smoking?


 

 Entitlement. This seems to increase as you approach the extremes of the costerformance ratio.


----------



## valarking

inanevoyage said:


> You're comparing a small, disruptive startup to Sennheiser and Logitech? And bitching that they don't auto print you a shipping label? What in the hell are you smoking?


 
  
 Common sense. I'd advise you try some, it's better than Kool-Aid.


----------



## Ancipital

alchemist007 said:


> Would this work if I wanted to take a Mimby's RCA out to the Jot and another amp?
> http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=7187


 
  
 Rather than using the splitter, why not just run some RCAs from the Jot's pre-out? It's insanely clean. Last time I made a half-assed measurement, with the volume knob about 2 o'clock on the Jot, I got something around unity out of the pre-outs with my Mimby in the SE in.
  
 Otherwise, a pair of splitters should work just fine out of your DAC, or Y cables, or even a Schiit Sys if you're that way inclined (with the Sys pot open all the way). It shouldn't harm the sound or the hardware. Lots of choices. Hope that helps.


----------



## Currawong

@inanevoyage  That was unnecessary.   It's easy for someone like myself, who has visited and talked with Jason and Mike, to see things clearly, but the average customer, who has never done these things, and likely not even read much, if any of what Jason has written here, would have a lot more concern.


----------



## inanevoyage

currawong said:


> @inanevoyage  That was unnecessary.   It's easy for someone like myself, who has visited and talked with Jason and Mike, to see things clearly, but the average customer, who has never done these things, and likely not even read much, if any of what Jason has written here, would have a lot more concern.


 

 I'm content to move on, but someone had to check his privilege. The only thing unnecessary so far imho was the statement:
  


> What's the point of buying from an American boutique seller if you get the Chinese manufacturer experience?


----------



## thefitz

inanevoyage said:


> I'm content to move on, but someone had to check his privilege. The only thing unnecessary so far imho was the statement:


 

 I was with you until you used the phrase "check his privilege".


----------



## Alchemist007

ancipital said:


> Rather than using the splitter, why not just run some RCAs from the Jot's pre-out? It's insanely clean. Last time I made a half-assed measurement, with the volume knob about 2 o'clock on the Jot, I got something around unity out of the pre-outs with my Mimby in the SE in.
> 
> Otherwise, a pair of splitters should work just fine out of your DAC, or Y cables, or even a Schiit Sys if you're that way inclined (with the Sys pot open all the way). It shouldn't harm the sound or the hardware. Lots of choices. Hope that helps.


 

 Hmm, the other thing I had heard and was unsure of was that this splitting divides the signal quality, or does it send the same data along both somehow?


----------



## valarking

currawong said:


> @inanevoyage  That was unnecessary.   It's easy for someone like myself, who has visited and talked with Jason and Mike, to see things clearly, but the average customer, who has never done these things, and likely not even read much, if any of what Jason has written here, would have a lot more concern.


 

 No I've read plenty of what Jason has posted here, and my general impression of Schiit from all of that is why my expectations were a bit higher than they should have been. Fortunately, based on what I have experienced, and several others have described, it seems that the problem was a technical fault with the support form rather than Schiit just ignoring me for days. So my opinion of them has been somewhat restored. I'm still not happy that I had to spend so much time getting it going, that Nick spent days to send terse one sentence replies, and that there was not a single factor (such as a preprinted label, quicker response, or even just a few sentences saying "sorry it messed up") that showed they wanted to retain a customer who got an expensive lemon. People can call it entitlement, but I think it's reasonable for a company to do its best to make things right in a timely manner for a customer, and for a customer to take business elsewhere when it doesn't happen. That's all it is.


----------



## thefitz

valarking said:


> People can call it entitlement, but I think it's reasonable for a company to do its best to make things right in a timely manner for a customer, and for a customer to take business elsewhere when it doesn't happen. That's all it is.


 
 I agree, however that's not what you said. You compared the RMA practices of small shop to that of large multinational conglomerates. This is like going to a pub and asking why the hamburgers are slower than McDonalds.


----------



## valarking

thefitz said:


> I agree, however that's not what you said. You compared the RMA practices of small shop to that of large multinational conglomerates. This is like going to a pub and asking why the hamburgers are slower than McDonalds.


 
  
 Fair enough. I think my problems with that were just me being salty about it. The actual problem was the lackadaisical response from support. Having to pay $20 to RMA a faulty product is understandable and outline in their policy, but definitely doesn't do anything to mitigate the issues I had with the product or the support.


----------



## inanevoyage

valarking said:


> Fair enough. I think my problems with that were just me being salty about it. The actual problem was the lackadaisical response from support. Having to pay $20 to RMA a faulty product is understandable and outline in their policy, but definitely doesn't do anything to mitigate the issues I had with the product or the support.


 


 And I could have objectively pointed out that it was unfair to compare Schiit's processes to massive corporations, rather than asking you what you were smoking. I mistakenly made it about your character because I know what it's like to run a small business measured against competitors with insane amounts of venture capital and staff. 

 You are right to lay out the problem as you experienced it, and it looks like you'll end up making a direct improvement to their processes as a result.


----------



## SirRealist

Awesome to see what appeared to be a derailment get back on course and resolve amicably, all around.


----------



## peepr

can anyone compare running their HD650 out of the SE and then Balanced output? Curious to know how the 350mW vs 900mW compares...


----------



## Mr Rick

peepr said:


> can anyone compare running their HD650 out of the SE and then Balanced output? Curious to know how the 350mW vs 900mW compares...


 
  
 I found no difference whatsoever.


----------



## SirRealist

peepr said:


> can anyone compare running their HD650 out of the SE and then Balanced output? Curious to know how the 350mW vs 900mW compares...


 
  
 User Ancipital posted an excellent review of the Jot with the HD 650 and Mimby and had this to say about SE vs balanced on the HD 650:
  
 "I swapped the cable for the balanced one, and buckled up slightly apprehensively. Logically, I wasn't expecting a huge difference- but I was hoping for something, and preferably something positive. Oddly, that wasn't a bad guess. The difference with balanced isn't, as some excitable souls like to claim (about nearly everything) "night and day". However, it's noticeable- a general increase in fine detail across the board. Sharp transients were the main beneficiary. The xylophones low in the mix in Bowie's "Word On the Wing" are a good example. They sound clear and pleasant on the Jotunheim/HD650 in general, but the percussive attack of the sound is more pronounced when you're going balanced. It's a small difference but worth having for the price of a cable with the right termination."


----------



## Voxata

I found an increase in SQ in many different ways.


----------



## zeissiez

Many balanced amps I heard, low end and high end, the SE output being mediocre. The Jot SE output is comparable to the balanced out, which I think is Jot's strength. Of course the slight improvement with separation, air, control still easily noticeable with the balanced output.


----------



## Mudshark

zeissiez said:


> Many balanced amps I heard, low end and high end, the SE output being mediocre. The Jot SE output is comparable to the balanced out, which I think is Jot's strength. Of course the slight improvement with separation, air, control still easily noticeable with the balanced output.


 
  
 Is there still a benefit to the Jot's balanced HP output if the incoming source is single-ended?  Thanks.


----------



## Ancipital

mudshark said:


> Is there still a benefit to the Jot's balanced HP output if the incoming source is single-ended?  Thanks.


 
  
 Absolutely. Double the slew rate and power, so more driver control on headphones that can sound a little sluggish on lesser amps. The Jot's SE out is very nice, but you get a surprising little upgrade from going balanced out, to staging, speed, instrument separation etc.
  
 It's not the fabled "night and day" but totally worth having for the cost of a spare cable to reterminate. Heck, you can just reterminate to 4 pin XLR and use a 4 pin XLR to SE 1/4 inch jack adaptor for your SE-only amps if you have some, and get by just fine with the one cable.


----------



## peepr

sirrealist said:


> User Ancipital posted an excellent review of the Jot with the HD 650 and Mimby and had this to say about SE vs balanced on the HD 650:
> 
> "I swapped the cable for the balanced one, and buckled up slightly apprehensively. Logically, I wasn't expecting a huge difference- but I was hoping for something, and preferably something positive. Oddly, that wasn't a bad guess. The difference with balanced isn't, as some excitable souls like to claim (about nearly everything) "night and day". However, it's noticeable- a general increase in fine detail across the board. Sharp transients were the main beneficiary. The xylophones low in the mix in Bowie's "Word On the Wing" are a good example. They sound clear and pleasant on the Jotunheim/HD650 in general, but the percussive attack of the sound is more pronounced when you're going balanced. It's a small difference but worth having for the price of a cable with the right termination."


 
 About what I would expect. At RMAF 2015 I found myself at the Sennheiser table listening to two HD650's plugged into the same HDVA-600. One was balanced the other SE. Switching between them i noticed a significant difference in sound and was frankly shocked.
  
 Balanced cans were much more meaty, better bass and all around more energy and excitement. A "fuller" sound. Akin to the loudness button on some vintage receivers but without the bloat/muddiness.


----------



## mattlach

So, the question to me then is as follows...
  
  
 Assuming you have balanced headphones you can use, which would sound better...
  
 -  The fully balanced integrated sigma-delta DAC; OR
  
 -  A single ended multibit DAC (like Modi Multibit).
  
 For most normal budgets at this time, you have to make a tradeoff between multibit or a fully balanced pipeline, because the cheapest balanced multibit DAC's are - well - a little more than I'm willing to spend...


----------



## Voxata

I'd go mimby if those are your options.


----------



## Byronb

mattlach said:


> So, the question to me then is as follows...
> 
> 
> Assuming you have balanced headphones you can use, which would sound better...
> ...


 
 I would definitely go Multibit!


----------



## peepr

byronb said:


> I would definitely go Multibit!


 
 This is what I plan on doing, with a possible Jotunheim purchase in my future and some balanced cables as well.


----------



## watchnerd

mattlach said:


> So, the question to me then is as follows...
> 
> 
> Assuming you have balanced headphones you can use, which would sound better...
> ...


 
  
 Unless someone has firsthand experience with your particular headphones on both of those combinations, the best you're going to get is speculation.
  
 Personally, I'd take the balanced DAC to get fully balanced all the way through.  That would mean the analog side of the equation is pretty much end game.
  
 You can always upgrade from DS to MB later (with very little money lost cause the inboard Jotunheim DAC is so inexpensive) if the itch to spend more / add more boxes strikes you at a later date.


----------



## frogmeat69

I would think that Schiit will eventually release a multibit add on card for the Jot, right??


----------



## Limu Shirin

frogmeat69 said:


> I would think that Schiit will eventually release a multibit add on card for the Jot, right??


 

 Well i hope, I got my jot with no module, should get a dedicated dac since my HA-2 gonna get ruined, always plugged to PC


----------



## watchnerd

frogmeat69 said:


> I would think that Schiit will eventually release a multibit add on card for the Jot, right??


 
  
 I recall comments saying it won't fit.


----------



## Tuneslover

peepr said:


> can anyone compare running their HD650 out of the SE and then Balanced output? Curious to know how the 350mW vs 900mW compares...



Balanced is definitely slightly louder. Also to me the sound scape is a bit wider than in SE mode. Overall it's a minor change but noticeable.


----------



## Voxata

There is no way multibit will be an option is my guess. The addon cards in the Jot is USB powered.. Multibit likes to be kept at temp and needs powaaaa.


----------



## jimmers

voxata said:


> There is no way multibit will be an option is my guess. The addon cards in the Jot is USB powered.. Multibit likes to be kept at temp and needs powaaaa.


 
 How does USB power the op amps in the phono module?
 Hmmm?
  
 Might not be enough juice to power SHARC DSP though


----------



## franzdom

Maybe if there was a multibit it could be non-usb?


----------



## Ancipital

franzdom said:


> Maybe if there was a multibit it could be non-usb?


 
  
 Sadly, it's the most popular way to drive DACs for many users (I think @Baldr has some nice posts about this.. anyone?). Not having USB might make it too much of a minority pastime to be worth the effort of building it.


----------



## thefitz

Can they not just add an extra wall-wart, similar to powering guitar pedals? Surely there's enough space.
  
 Side questions - Mimby, use the onboard DAC, or upgrade my Bifrost to Bimby?


----------



## mattlach

thefitz said:


> Can they not just add an extra wall-wart, similar to powering guitar pedals? Surely there's enough space.


 
  
 I don't know about there surely being enough space.   (In pictures the Jotunheim expansion board looks smaller than the Modi boards) but maybe if they use a greater number of layers in the board and tiny surface mount components (a pain to work with) they can make it all fit.
  
 Having an extra wall wart plug into a already powered box, does seem like a bit of a hack though.   I know we all tend to be performance over appearance fans, but they are a business and cant release stuff that is too hack like.
  
  


ancipital said:


> Sadly, it's the most popular way to drive DACs for many users (I think @Baldr has some nice posts about this.. anyone?). Not having USB might make it too much of a minority pastime to be worth the effort of building it.


 
  
 Yeah, according to Jason Stoddard's book the popularity of USB is to Mike Moffat's great dismay, though I got the impression from reading the book that he may have come around a bit since the early days of the company, given what they have been able to accomplish with it.
  
 My personal preference in DAC's is certainly using optical Toslink cables, mostly because my computer is unusually electrically noisy.  (Highly overclocked non-standard voltages and a 12VDC aquarium type pump driving a custom water cooling loop tends to do that)
  
 I certainly hope they are able to find a way to bring out a Jotunheim balanced multibit board with an option to use optical on it at some point, but until that point I'll keep using my Modi Multibit with the Jotunheims single ended inputs.
  
 Ps.  
  
 Thanks phone for almost making me type Jason Stiffness and Mike Monday.


----------



## droopy1592

mr rick said:


> I found no difference whatsoever.


 
 makes a dif for LcD-4 and i read a post in the unnamed place that always gets removed from my posts that it scales better with the balanced output of the Jot


----------



## thefitz

mattlach said:


> Having an extra wall wart plug into a already powered box, does seem like a bit of a hack though.   I know we all tend to be performance over appearance fans, but they are a business and cant release stuff that is too hack like.


 
 Sure, but read their FAQ on the thing. They won't call it an amp/DAC combo (or even assert the order amp/DAC or DAC/amp) because it doesn't _have _to be set up that way. Surely they can explain a secondary wall wart the same way. Too hacky? Don't use it!


----------



## Ancipital

mattlach said:


> I certainly hope they are able to find a way to bring out a Jotunheim balanced multibit board with an option to use optical on it at some point, but until that point I'll keep using my Modi Multibit with the Jotunheims single ended inputs.


 
  
 Oh well, it's not such a poor compromise- atomicbob's measurements of the Jot show that its SE ins and outs are excellent, very close to the balanced ones in all important respects. His measurement of the the Mimby also showed that it's no slouch either (and we know that subjectively, it sounds nice too)- so you have a hell of a combo for a very reasonable price, even if it looks a bit odd stacked.
  
 We're a bit spoiled now, and take the Mimby for granted, but it's pretty much untouchable at the price.. and so is the Jot. Sometimes Schiit really nail it, and those are two of their very best bang for buck pieces 
  
 (That's not to say that I wouldn't like a balanced multibit DAC sized and priced to stack with the Jot, I'd be all over that..)


----------



## mattlach

ancipital said:


> Oh well, it's not such a poor compromise- atomicbob's measurements of the Jot show that its SE ins and outs are excellent, very close to the balanced ones in all important respects. His measurement of the the Mimby also showed that it's no slouch either (and we know that subjectively, it sounds nice too)- so you have a hell of a combo for a very reasonable price, even if it looks a bit odd stacked.
> 
> We're a bit spoiled now, and take the Mimby for granted, but it's pretty much untouchable at the price.. and so is the Jot. Sometimes Schiit really nail it, and those are two of their very best bang for buck pieces
> 
> (That's not to say that I wouldn't like a balanced multibit DAC sized and priced to stack with the Jot, I'd be all over that..)





Agreed. Do you know where I might find atomicbobs measurements?

I think we often forget how much Schiit has changed the market since they started, especially with their Multibit revolution.


----------



## jimmers

thefitz said:


> Sure, but read their FAQ on the thing. They won't call it an amp/DAC combo (or even assert the order amp/DAC or DAC/amp) because it doesn't _have _to be set up that way. ...


 
 And yet it is listed under "AMP/DACS" on their site


----------



## Ancipital

mattlach said:


> Agreed. Do you know where I might find atomicbobs measurements?
> 
> I think we often forget how much Schiit has changed the market since they started, especially with their Multibit revolution.


 
  
  
 Here's the Mimby:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/817404/modi-mb-technical-measurements#post_12794943
  
 Sadly, I'm not allowed to link to the very detailed Jotunheim measurements directly, sorry about that. Head-Fi's house, Head-Fi's rules. However, you are probably equal to the task of finding them, it isn't hard.
  
 You're right, we do forget. There were an awful lot of incumbents charging fanciful prices for some pretty mediocre gear (sometimes in pretty boxes) in the midrange- simply because they could. Schiit shook that up quite nicely- to the consumer's benefit. The way that they gleefully undercut even their own range when they have a really good product to sell is also pretty hilarious. I can see why they became such a staple "go to" option for people not looking to spend boutique prices. Whether it's making multibit DACs widely available and affordable to schmucks like me, or making a clean, fast powerful balanced SS amp for less than $399, they're pretty startling. By all accounts, some of the earlier gen stuff was less impressive, but I think they've more than made up for it.
  
 (Yes, Jason, some of us _do _believe it, we're quite aware that some of your best pieces are the cheapest, even if the price tag brigade can't get their heads around it.)


----------



## mattlach

ancipital said:


> Here's the Mimby:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/817404/modi-mb-technical-measurements#post_12794943
> 
> ...




Definitely agree. They have changed the market for the better, at least if you are a customer 

I have one of the 1st gen Asgard, and I don't think it is unremarkable. It is still a good amp today. The Asgard 2 is certainly much better, it just doesn't seem as impressive now that a much cheaper Magni (or at least Magni Uber) does just about as well.

Just realized the other day that Schiit's order numbering system appears to be sequential, and my first Asgard order was in the low 500's.

I was one of the first to get Schiit!


----------



## Ancipital

mattlach said:


> Definitely agree. They have changed the market for the better, at least if you are a customer
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 "I was into them before they were mainstream", I hereby award you a beard 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm pretty sure that Schiit themselves have quietly admitted that some of their first gen stuff wasn't as amazing as it should be (but that still puts it on a par with or better than a lot of similarly-priced gear, I suspect). However, it's absolutely not worth bickering- they smash it so regularly that as a customer, I'm  happy.
  
 Have you heard the Vali 2 with an EH6CG7 plopped in there? That thing is _so cute_, and the sound is such a nice mellow counterpoint to the in-yo-face sound of the Jotunheim- an absolute steal at the price. 
  
 I think what they've done is create a sort of "escape velocity" problem- you have to go quite a long way upmarket to get significant upgrades to their stuff, rather than just expensive sidegrades. Very cool.


----------



## starence

This amp looks interesting, but I wonder how long it will be before they come out with something like a smaller, single ended only Jotun. Think I'm going to hold out for that, since I have no desire to muck around with balanced cables.


----------



## Ancipital

starence said:


> This amp looks interesting, but I wonder how long it will be before they come out with something like a smaller, single ended only Jotun. Think I'm going to hold out for that, since I have no desire to muck around with balanced cables.


 
  
 You don't have to, the SE ins and outs are excellent- though of course cabling your headphones for balanced will give you marginally better results, simply due to extra power, slew rate and magic elves.


----------



## watchnerd

starence said:


> This amp looks interesting, but I wonder how long it will be before they come out with something like a smaller, single ended only Jotun. Think I'm going to hold out for that, since I have no desire to muck around with balanced cables.


 
  
 Umm...huh?
  
 The Jotunheim has both SE in and SE out.  You don't need to muck around with balanced cables if you don't want to.


----------



## raybone0566

ancipital said:


> You don't have to, the SE ins and outs are excellent- though of course cabling your headphones for balanced will give you marginally better results, simply due to extra power, slew rate and magic elves.


Gotta love those elves


----------



## mattlach

watchnerd said:


> Umm...huh?
> 
> The Jotunheim has both SE in and SE out.  You don't need to muck around with balanced cables if you don't want to.




That is true. One could argue though that if one has no intent of using the balanced aspect of the amp, one has paid extra for a feature that goes unused.

That being said, if everything I'm reading is correct, even with single ended outputs this thing sounds fantastic, better than others in it price class and beyond, so it is still worth it.


----------



## mattlach

ancipital said:


> "I was into them before they were mainstream", I hereby award you a beard
> 
> I'm pretty sure that Schiit themselves have quietly admitted that some of their first gen stuff wasn't as amazing as it should be (but that still puts it on a par with or better than a lot of similarly-priced gear, I suspect). However, it's absolutely not worth bickering- they smash it so regularly that as a customer, I'm  happy.
> 
> ...




While I didn't intend it that way, hipster guilty as charged I guess 

Yeah, reading through Jason Stoddard's book it is clear they have had many moments when listen testing a new low end product where they all think it's so good and all simultaneously ask "what does this do to  because it either sounds better or gets uncomfortably close.

As far as the original Asgard goes, my impression is that the original Magni Uber got uncomfortably close and the Magni2 Uber probably beats it (though I haven't personally heard a Magni, I'm deducing from others comments)

My fiance is currently using my original Asgard coupled with a new Modi2 Uber and a set of 250Ohm Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro's I got her, and while I haven't done any side by side comparisons the combo still sounds great IMHO.

It's possible a higher end set of headphones would reveal more shortcomings in the amp, but in my listen test nothing immediately jumped out at me.


----------



## peterinvan

​


ancipital said:


> ... ...
> 
> (That's not to say that I wouldn't like a balanced multibit DAC sized and priced to stack with the Jot, I'd be all over that..)




+1 for a small form factor balanced, multibit.


----------



## gahan

peterinvan said:


> ​ +1 for a small form factor balanced, multibit.


 
  
 Maybe Bifrost 2?


----------



## watchnerd

peterinvan said:


> ​ +1 for a small form factor balanced, multibit.


 
  
 If you can forego multibit, there are TONS of small form-factor DACs with balanced out.


----------



## thefitz

watchnerd said:


> If you can forego multibit, there are TONS of small form-factor DACs with balanced out.


 

 Any that aren't battery operated that have digital coax inputs?


----------



## thefitz

gahan said:


> Maybe Bifrost 2?


 

 I think balanced/multibit requires two "multibit thingies", which I suspect has something to do with the Bimby upgrade being $250 and the Gumby upgrade being $500.


----------



## watchnerd

thefitz said:


> Any that aren't battery operated that have digital coax inputs?


 
  
 Not sure about coax....look at DAW interfaces. Usually small with XLR/TRS outs.


----------



## mattlach

thefitz said:


> I think balanced/multibit requires two "multibit thingies", which I suspect has something to do with the Bimby upgrade being $250 and the Gumby upgrade being $500.




Yep, two thingies it is.

Normally I would say this can't be done at Bifrost prices. That being said, prior to July of this year I would have said multibit can't be done at Modi Multibit price levels, so...

The guys at Schiit have a remarkable knack for finding a way to make things that cost less but sound great.

The funny thing is, usually this is the realm of large companies, selling millions of units a year able to use economies of scale for their supply chain as well as throw armies of engineers and process and design optimization to improve cost and manufacture in a cheap 3rd world country.

And here, friendly little Schiit is doing it with a handful of employees manufacturing in the U.S. Rather remarkable if you ask me.


----------



## Ancipital

watchnerd said:


> If you can forego multibit


 
  
 Going to have to stop you right there...


----------



## frankietown

Forgive me for my noobie questions..
  
 1) If I want to use the 4-pin XLR output of the Jot, do I need to have a balanced DAC connected to it?
  
 2) If I purchase the internal DAC, will I be able to use the XLR port just fine?
  
 3) If i purchase a Bitfrost Multibit, I do have to connect it via balanced out->in in order to use the XLR?
  
 4) How much of an upgrade is the internal DAC vs modi multibit vs bitfrost multibit?


----------



## Mr Rick

frankietown said:


> Forgive me for my noobie questions..
> 
> 1) If I want to use the 4-pin XLR output of the Jot, do I need to have a balanced DAC connected to it?
> 
> ...


 
 No
  
 Yes
  
 No
  
 Up for debate.


----------



## mattlach

mr rick said:


> No
> 
> Yes
> 
> ...




Pretty much.

Jotunheim can amplify balanced ins to balanced outs, balanced ins to single ended outs, single ended ins to single ended outs, and single ended ins to balanced outs.

The Bifrost is single ended only, so it would need to connect to the single ended ins on the Jotunheim, but could be listened to using either single ended or balanced headphones.

It is currently being debated in this thread which is more important, Multibit DAC or balanced DAC, because with the Jotunheim you can't currently have both, unless you order a Gungnir DAC or above, and now we are starting to talk real money.

Right now, multi it seems to be winning over balanced, but I have seen nothing that has ended the discussion yet, and no direct comparisons.


----------



## franzdom

I can testify Jotunheim plays quite nicely with Yggdrasil (multibit) balanced and discreet.


----------



## mattlach

franzdom said:


> I can testify Jotunheim plays quite nicely with Yggdrasil (multibit) balanced and discreet.




Haha, yeah, but not everyone is willing (or able) to spend $2,300 for a DAC, especially not in order to pair it with a $399 amp.

Realistically most Jotunheim buyers are probably going to be using the internal DAC, Modi Multibit or Bifrost Multibit.


----------



## frankietown

mattlach said:


> Pretty much.
> 
> Jotunheim can amplify balanced ins to balanced outs, balanced ins to single ended outs, single ended ins to single ended outs, and single ended ins to balanced outs.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thank you very much you both


----------



## franzdom

mattlach said:


> Haha, yeah, but not everyone is willing (or able) to spend $2,300 for a DAC, especially not in order to pair it with a $399 amp.
> 
> Realistically most Jotunheim buyers are probably going to be using the internal DAC, Modi Multibit or Bifrost Multibit.


 
  
 True but it speaks volumes that this amp plays well in the big leagues!


----------



## Mr Rick

franzdom said:


> True but it speaks volumes that this amp plays well in the big leagues!


 
  
 I think you could fairly say that about any Schiit amp.


----------



## FljpFl0p

Is it worth it to get the Jotunheim over the Magni2U/Modi2U stack if I'm just going to use the 6.5mm plug? I'm gonna use it with the HD6xx and buying a $500 DAC/Amp for a $200 headphone sounds...not right


----------



## Voxata

The way Jot works you are able to have SE source input and still enjoy a solid SQ increase across the board using Jots balanced out.


----------



## Starcruncher

fljpfl0p said:


> Is it worth it to get the Jotunheim over the Magni2U/Modi2U stack if I'm just going to use the 6.5mm plug? I'm gonna use it with the HD6xx and buying a $500 DAC/Amp for a $200 headphone sounds...not right


 
  
 First, welcome to Head-Fi. I don't have this amp, and I won't fault you too hard for a noob question, but if you stick around, you will learn that gear pricing and the hierarchy of components are not so basic or linear. Your intuition that an amp should not cost more than the headphones is common, but definitely not dogma. And besides, until Massdrop's HD 6xx, this headphone was much closer to the price of the Jot. And considering the praise this pairing is receiving, you could do much worse and waste a lot more time and money trying to satisfy an arbitrary balance sheet.
  
 So basically, go for it!!!


----------



## watchnerd

fljpfl0p said:


> Is it worth it to get the Jotunheim over the Magni2U/Modi2U stack if I'm just going to use the 6.5mm plug? I'm gonna use it with the HD6xx and buying a $500 DAC/Amp for a $200 headphone sounds...not right


 
  
 I use $849 amp with $449 cans.  Not that weird.
  
 But...if they Magni2U has enough power for your cans, why change anything?


----------



## FljpFl0p

starcruncher said:


> First, welcome to Head-Fi. I don't have this amp, and I won't fault you too hard for a noob question, but if you stick around, you will learn that gear pricing and the hierarchy of components are not so basic or linear. Your intuition that an amp should not cost more than the headphones is common, but definitely not dogma. And besides, until Massdrop's HD 6xx, this headphone was much closer to the price of the Jot. And considering the praise this pairing is receiving, you could do much worse and waste a lot more time and money trying to satisfy an arbitrary balance sheet.
> 
> So basically, go for it!!!


 
  
  


watchnerd said:


> I use $849 amp with $449 cans.  Not that weird.
> 
> But...if they Magni2U has enough power for your cans, why change anything?


 
  
 I haven't bought anything yet and I can more or less understand how it's reasonable to pay more for an amp than the headphone, but I'm wondering whether the difference in sound quality would justify the premium cost.
 Everyone is praising the Jot with it's balanced output, but I'll be using just USB-in with the stock headphone cable. Will I be wasting it's potential if I don't utilize the balanced in or out at all?


----------



## jimmers

fljpfl0p said:


> I haven't bought anything yet and I can more or less understand how it's reasonable to pay more for an amp than the headphone, but I'm wondering whether the difference in sound quality would justify the premium cost.
> Everyone is praising the Jot with it's balanced output, but I'll be using just USB-in with the stock headphone cable. Will I be wasting it's potential if I don't utilize the balanced in or out at all?


 
 Depends on the headphone, I like the HD650 so I think it's worth having a Bimby and a Jot for them.
  
 Going balanced out for me was the cost of a 4 pin XLR, a little time and the use of a cutter and a soldering iron; the cutter and iron I already had, my time is my own, so that's ~ $10.
  The Jot is (almost) as good single ended as balanced, I used it for a while single ended out so I had something to look forward to, not sure how much improvement, if any, as I was using a different type of cable, but the HD650 has what I think people refer to as "sub bass" now that I wasn't aware of before.


----------



## mattlach

watchnerd said:


> I use $849 amp with $449 cans.  Not that weird.
> 
> But...if they Magni2U has enough power for your cans, why change anything?




Yeah, there is a sense in the community that your money is better spent on headphones than an amp, and better spent on an amp than on a DAC, and it's not necessarily wrong.

It's actually a good way to prioritize your audiophile spending.

That being said it's far from an absolute law.

I too have more expensive amps and DAC's than my headphones, but this is partially because of getting good promotions (massdrops etc.) on the headphones, and headphones are next on my upgrade list.


----------



## Ancipital

jimmers said:


> Depends on the headphone, I like the HD650 so I think it's worth having a Bimby and a Jot for them.


 
  
 If you're starting now, there's no reason to get a Bimby any more, Mimby edges it in some ways, and costs a lot less. However, you're right, plug that into a Jot, and it steamrollers through the veil nicely, and sounds great. 
  
 (That said, if you want even more out of the 650, there are mods that you can do... there be dragons!)


----------



## rovopio

mattlach said:


> Pretty much.
> 
> Jotunheim can amplify balanced ins to balanced outs, balanced ins to single ended outs, single ended ins to single ended outs, and single ended ins to balanced outs.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Another relevant question would be (well, for me at least), which one to prioritize getting. A balanced cable, or a Multibit DAC?
 Because without any soldering capability, a balanced cable will be ~$100 vs. $250 for the multibit, and to people with limited budget, it would be nice to know which one is advisable to be prioritized on getting.


----------



## Ancipital

rovopio said:


> Another relevant question would be (well, for me at least), which one to prioritize getting. A balanced cable, or a Multibit DAC?
> Because without any soldering capability, a balanced cable will be ~$100 vs. $250 for the multibit, and to people with limited budget, it would be nice to know which one is advisable to be prioritized on getting.


 
  
 Wait, a balanced cable for what, made out of what, exactly?
  
 ..and yes, an SE multibit DAC into the Jot will be more of an upgrade than a balanced D/S, by far. Remember that it doesn't matter if you go balanced or SE into the Jot, you can still go balanced or SE out as you prefer, too. It's totally worth getting even an inexpensive balanced headphone cable when you can- but don't worry if you can't afford to do so right away. The SE out is still respectable, unlike some other amps (including some Schiits). "Balanced" has different meaning and consequences with headphones, compared to connects. Induced noise isn't really an issue with all but the more terrible quality long headphone cables. Instead, you're gaining power and slew rate, which does mean better control over the drivers, often leading to a "faster" sound, better instrument separation, staging etc., when the balanced out is good.
  
 If your amp already happens to already have good balanced out, it's a good idea to use it.
  
 Obviously, a balanced DAC is nice to have, but it does involve a doubling of the hardware needed in the box, so it's always going to cost more. Often a really good SE <thing> will totally trump a mediocre balanced <thing>. The only time that balanced into the Jot will be a must-have is if your DAC is the other end of a really long cable run away- otherwise it measures _very_ close, SE vs balanced. Use short, sensible-quality cables and it's fine.


----------



## mattlach

rovopio said:


> Another relevant question would be (well, for me at least), which one to prioritize getting. A balanced cable, or a Multibit DAC?
> Because without any soldering capability, a balanced cable will be ~$100 vs. $250 for the multibit, and to people with limited budget, it would be nice to know which one is advisable to be prioritized on getting.




Honestly, I wouldn't get a balanced cable at all unless you make it yourself, given some of the ridiculous prices that are being charged for them. There really is no point in buying expensive audio jewelry cables.

I'd get the Modi Multibit, and at some point pick up a cheap soldering iron and some solder on Amazon and play with it. It really isn't that difficult.

Touch hot thing to solder, solder melts, get solder on wire and contact, remove hot thing, it hardens.

The toughest part is making sure you are connecting the right wire to the right lead, and getting a cheap multimeter with a continuity beep mode solves that problem quite nicely.


----------



## leafy7382

Getting a multibit DAC also means that you have more flexibility to the source on other systems (feeding the MB to the speakers system for example), where as the balanced cable would only feed the cans. I vote for the multibit though personally I went for the balanced cans cable.


----------



## rovopio

leafy7382 said:


> Getting a multibit DAC also means that you have more flexibility to the source on other systems (feeding the MB to the speakers system for example), where as the balanced cable would only feed the cans. I vote for the multibit though personally I went for the balanced cans cable.


 
  
 Thank you very much for the input, mate!
  
 Quote:


mattlach said:


> Honestly, I wouldn't get a balanced cable at all unless you make it yourself, given some of the ridiculous prices that are being charged for them. There really is no point in buying expensive audio jewelry cables.
> I'd get the Modi Multibit, and at some point pick up a cheap soldering iron and some solder on Amazon and play with it. It really isn't that difficult.
> Touch hot thing to solder, solder melts, get solder on wire and contact, remove hot thing, it hardens.
> The toughest part is making sure you are connecting the right wire to the right lead, and getting a cheap multimeter with a continuity beep mode solves that problem quite nicely.


 
  
 You make it as if it sounds so easy. Thank you very much for the input! Yeah, with all the praise of the Jotunheim, it's nice to hear some inputs on which item one should prioritize getting first given a certain budget.
  
  


ancipital said:


> Wait, a balanced cable for what, made out of what, exactly?
> 
> ..and yes, an SE multibit DAC into the Jot will be more of an upgrade than a balanced D/S, by far. Remember that it doesn't matter if you go balanced or SE into the Jot, you can still go balanced or SE out as you prefer, too. It's totally worth getting even an inexpensive balanced headphone cable when you can- but don't worry if you can't afford to do so right away. The SE out is still respectable, unlike some other amps (including some Schiits). "Balanced" has different meaning and consequences with headphones, compared to connects. Induced noise isn't really an issue with all but the more terrible quality long headphone cables. Instead, you're gaining power and slew rate, which does mean better control over the drivers, often leading to a "faster" sound, better instrument separation, staging etc., when the balanced out is good.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ah! I was talking about balanced cable for my headphone to plug into the Jot so I'll get balanced out from it. That's what I meant. Sorry that it wasn't clear... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Thanks for the input as well! Yeah I don't feel anything lacking from the SE out of the Jot, but it's always nice to hear inputs from others more experienced in the hobby. I guess based on the opinions you guys posted, it's more beneficial to get a better DAC first before getting a balanced cable if one have to prioritize.


----------



## mattlach

rovopio said:


> You make it as if it sounds so easy. Thank you very much for the input! Yeah, with all the praise of the Jotunheim, it's nice to hear some inputs on which item one should prioritize getting first given a certain budget.


 
  
 Well, it really is easier than you might think, especially on the HD650's.  There are plenty of charts that show you how to hook up the wires online, and the great part about solder is, if you mess it up, you can just melt it again and try over.
  
 With the HD650's since they have detachable cables, all you have to do is buy a replacement Sennheiser cable (~$20) and a cheap 4 pin XLR connector, lop off the end of the cable and solder on the XLR connector.
  
 Even if you can't figure it out, and wind up with something non-functional, the worst you have done is wasted $25 in parts, and you can still use your original cable with the HD650's.
  
  
 With other headphones it can be trickier because they either don't ahve detachable cables, or have detachable cables with only 3 wires (you need 4 for balanced) but with the HD650's it's super easy.


----------



## mattlach

My question now is, are there any good active monitors with a Jotunheim-like value proposition (you know, 99+% of the sound quality at 20% of the price compared to super fancy expensive stuff) I could hook up to the balanced pre-amp outs on the back of the Jotunheim for a good headphone-speaker combo experience.


----------



## Tuneslover

mattlach said:


> Well, it really is easier than you might think, especially on the HD650's.  There are plenty of charts that show you how to hook up the wires online, and the great part about solder is, if you mess it up, you can just melt it again and try over.
> 
> With the HD650's since they have detachable cables, all you have to do is buy a replacement Sennheiser cable (~$20) and a cheap 4 pin XLR connector, lop off the end of the cable and solder on the XLR connector.
> 
> ...



Heres what I did, well actually an electronics buddy of mine did the work for me. I did help out but I deferred to his experience and skill. Although I watched him the procedure really appears pretty straight forward. Anyway we modified my existing stock HD650 cable. I bought 2 male and 1 female Neutrik 4 pin XLR connectors ($20 total). He cut off about 1 foot from the 1/4" connector end of the stock HD650 cable and soldered on the female XLR connector of this short piece of cable. That made me an XLR to SE adaptor. Then he soldered a male XLR connector onto the freshly cut stock 650 cable. He then snipped off the 1/4" plug from my HE500 stock cable and soldered the other male XLR connector onto that cable.

End result, both of my favorite headphones are now balanced and I have an adaptor whenever I want to listen SE mode. I can have both headphones plugged in at the same time and trade off between listening between SE and Balanced. Very sweet indeed.


----------



## Mr Rick

mattlach said:


> My question now is, are there any good active monitors with a Jotunheim-like value proposition (you know, 99+% of the sound quality at 20% of the price compared to super fancy expensive stuff) I could hook up to the balanced pre-amp outs on the back of the Jotunheim for a good headphone-speaker combo experience.


 
  
 You might consider the Emotiva Airmotiv series.


----------



## mattlach

mr rick said:


> You might consider the Emotiva Airmotiv series.




Thanks for that recommendation. Those look very nice, and once I figured out the prices were for a pair, very reasonable too.

May have to invest in a biggest desk first though. I'm - well - out of space...



Maybe I'll get myself an Autonomous desk for Christmas.


----------



## Ancipital

mattlach said:


> My question now is, are there any good active monitors with a Jotunheim-like value proposition (you know, 99+% of the sound quality at 20% of the price compared to super fancy expensive stuff) I could hook up to the balanced pre-amp outs on the back of the Jotunheim for a good headphone-speaker combo experience.


 
  
 Sadly, not a clue. I had some old Adam Audio A5 around, which I hooked up for nearfield fun- they sound great out of the pre out. I feel bad for neglecting them for so long, but am really enjoying the pairing.


----------



## drews

mr rick said:


> You might consider the Emotiva Airmotiv series.


 
  
 Bigly!


----------



## Ancipital

rovopio said:


> Thanks for the input as well! Yeah I don't feel anything lacking from the SE out of the Jot, but it's always nice to hear inputs from others more experienced in the hobby. I guess based on the opinions you guys posted, it's more beneficial to get a better DAC first before getting a balanced cable if one have to prioritize.


 
  
 Out of interest, which headphones do you want to drive balanced?


----------



## potterma

mattlach said:


> My question now is, are there any good active monitors with a Jotunheim-like value proposition (you know, 99+% of the sound quality at 20% of the price compared to super fancy expensive stuff) I could hook up to the balanced pre-amp outs on the back of the Jotunheim for a good headphone-speaker combo experience.


 

 You'll have to decide where this ends up as far as the "value proposition" goes, but I really like my pair of JBL LSR305 driven with the Jot.  Sweetwater currently has a pretty good deal going on them right now.


----------



## rovopio

ancipital said:


> Out of interest, which headphones do you want to drive balanced?


 

 hd650 modded with the "standard" mod. I'm not a member over there, but I read posts over there from time to time.


----------



## daddyo1973

Subscribed


----------



## Ancipital

rovopio said:


> hd650 modded with the "standard" mod. I'm not a member over there, but I read posts over there from time to time.


 
  
 Oh, then you don't need to pay a fortune for a balanced cable! As posted above, a spare cable is a cheap part to order, so you could reterminate one yourself quite easily for the cost of a Neutrik plug. However, if you're _truly _allergic to soldering, here's a slightly less than eye-wateringly pricey one:
  
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6-SENNHEISER-HEADPHONE-CABLE-HD600-HD650-MOGAMI-CARDAS-NEUTRIK-BALANCED-/122215564172?hash=item1c749d838c:g:fdoAAOSw5ZBWH-7D
  
 It's not super-pretty, but it should get the job done. Hopefully the price means you don't have to regard it as an either/or.


----------



## watchnerd

potterma said:


> You'll have to decide where this ends up as far as the "value proposition" goes, but I really like my pair of JBL LSR305 driven with the Jot.  Sweetwater currently has a pretty good deal going on them right now.


 
  
 I also have a pair of JBL LSR305 in one of our office set ups.
  
 It's hard to do definitively better than the LSR305 until you get to the ~$500 each / ~$1000 pair level (Adam, Dynaudio, Eve Audio, Focal).


----------



## mattlach

rovopio said:


> hd650 modded with the "standard" mod. I'm not a member over there, but I read posts over there from time to time.




What is the standard mod you are referring to? Is that the one where they pull out the round foam pieces covering the center?


----------



## Ancipital

mattlach said:


> What is the standard mod you are referring to? Is that the one where they pull out the round foam pieces covering the center?


 
  
 Pull the foam out, snip off the rear cage, and apply acoustic damping material in strategic locations (including a ring on the back of the driver magnet). Optionally, cut a small hole (the size of a quarter/pound coin) in the front foam over the driver. Some people, especially treble-sensitive people using bright amps, find that last step a bit much.
  
 The mod tightens up the bass considerably, and brings up the highs. I found mine became a bit too bassy, so I dialled the bass down slightly with some fine nylon mesh over the hole in the back of the drivers. The end result is very pleasant, very listenable.
  
 I don't feel like the mod is really necessary if you're just using the Jot, with a balanced cable, as it has a pretty good grip on the drivers with the stock 650; you'll probably like the difference, but may not enjoy the hassle and invalidating your warranty. However, if you also use some slightly less brutal amps, it can be an obvious benefit. The coin mod is definitely a matter of taste with the Jot, though.


----------



## daddyo1973

Well I finally went ahead and placed my order for a Jotunheim with balanced DAC module.  I wasted far too many hours deliberating over an amp / DAC upgrade but always gravitated back towards one of the Schiit products.  Hopefully it can deliver the goods over my AQ Dragon Fly Red and my trusty old Leckerton Audio UHA 6S mk II.


----------



## MWSVette

daddyo1973 said:


> Well I finally went ahead and placed my order for a Jotunheim with balanced DAC module.  I wasted far too many hours deliberating over an amp / DAC upgrade but always gravitated back towards one of the Schiit products.  Hopefully it can deliver the goods over my AQ Dragon Fly Red and my trusty old Leckerton Audio UHA 6S mk II.


 
 Welcome to the Schiit club...


----------



## theveterans

daddyo1973 said:


> Well I finally went ahead and placed my order for a Jotunheim with balanced DAC module.  I wasted far too many hours deliberating over an amp / DAC upgrade but always gravitated back towards one of the Schiit products.  Hopefully it can deliver the goods over my AQ Dragon Fly Red and my trusty old Leckerton Audio UHA 6S mk II.


 
  
 IMO it would make you leave those two collecting dust.


----------



## mattlach

watchnerd said:


> I also have a pair of JBL LSR305 in one of our office set ups.
> 
> It's hard to do definitively better than the LSR305 until you get to the ~$500 each / ~$1000 pair level (Adam, Dynaudio, Eve Audio, Focal).


 
  
 Yeah, it looks like in the bang for the buck category it becomes a comparison between the JBL LR305's and the Emotiva Airmotive 4s.
  
 The LR305's appear a bit bigger and louder, but they use Class D amp's which makes me hesitate a bit.   The Airmotive 4s's are a little smaller and not as loud, but have Class A/B Amps.
  
 Having not heard either, on paper I'm leaning towards the Emotiva Airmotive 4s speakers.  I have a small office, don't need a lot of speaker power, and am not sure I want to take a risk on a class D amp, especially not when hooked up to my awesome Schiit gear.
  
 For ~$100 more, the Emotiva Airmotive 5s appear to be similar in power to the LR305's, while still maintaining a Class A/B amp.
  
 Decisions decisions.
  
 I have some time to research though.  I need a bigger desk (or try to figure out how to squeeze in speaker stands) before I can buy any speakers...


----------



## daddyo1973

theveterans said:


> IMO it would make you leave those two collecting dust.




Considering I purchased the Jotunheim as an upgrade that's a good thing! The AQ Dragonfly will always have a place though...performance and form factor is hard to deny.


----------



## theveterans

mattlach said:


> Yeah, it looks like in the bang for the buck category it becomes a comparison between the JBL LR305's and the Emotiva Airmotive 4s.
> 
> The LR305's appear a bit bigger and louder, but they use Class D amp's which makes me hesitate a bit.   The Airmotive 4s's are a little smaller and not as loud, but have Class A/B Amps.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You can get a slim speaker stand like how I setup mine with Yamaha HS7 hooked up to my Schiit gears (my desk is incredibly messy right now hehe)
 I use this speaker stands which IMO is compact and does not take too much floor space http://www.guitarcenter.com/DR-Pro/DRPRO-SMS1BK-Wood-Studio-Monitor-Stand-Pair.gc
 Even though Yamaha doesn't specify the amplfier class, I'm very confident it's Class A/B since the heatsink fins on the back gets pretty warm on use while Class D amps do not require heatsink fins  (except for large subwoofers with passive speaker surround sound outputs).


----------



## rovopio

mattlach said:


> What is the standard mod you are referring to? Is that the one where they pull out the round foam pieces covering the center?


 
  
 There are three. 2 of those I wouldn't recommend until one is entirely sure. Another one is basically putting mass dampener on the back of the driver, so it's easily reversible. A lot of people uses Dynamat and call it Dynamat mod, a kind member told me about Second Skin Damplifier Pro and that's what I used (I didn't do that much research on dampening material, I just feel like he knows what he's talking about, so I followed his advice).
  
 The other two is making the front foam have a centered hole a size of a coin, and the other one is cutting apart the plastic thing-y on the back of the driver. I don't advise removing the round foam of back drivers by itself. It makes the hd650 sounds fatiguing to my ear. For context, I like bright sound and I still find it fatiguing. The foam removal has to be accompanied with plastic removal in my opinion and personal experience.


----------



## mattlach

Grrr.
  
 My original Fedex delivery estimate for my Jotunheim was for today.   Tracking page on Fedex still says today by the end of the day, but it stood out as odd to me that it was not yet listed as out for delivery, and instead was in the next state over, en route to my local delivery facility, so I called them, and now they are saying delivery won't be until Tuesday 
  
 Fedex Ground appears to be messing up a lot with delivery estimates these days, at least in my area.   Has anyone else had this issue?


----------



## watchnerd

mattlach said:


> The LR305's appear a bit bigger and louder, but they use Class D amp's which makes me hesitate a bit.


 
  
 Why?  The Dynaudio Focus 200 XD also uses class D amps, and is rated as a Class A loudspeaker by Stereophile.


----------



## Wyllio

Anyone notice that there is a black finish option for the Jotunheim on their website now.


----------



## Ancipital

winston3rds said:


> Anyone notice that there is a black finish option for the Jotunheim on their website now.


 
  
 Black Schiits come and go, they're an occasional limited thing rather than a new long term production option*. Often when they get some casings with a slight cosmetic surface imperfection, they turn them into blacks, as the coating totally solves it. They cleverly turn a problem into an opportunity to snag a rarity. That's pretty cool, I'm sure some people would love a black Jot, to co-ordinate with other gear- good spot.
  
 * Unless they've done another crazy swerve and you know.. are making black anyway. Never rule anything out with that lot


----------



## ld100

So plugging headphones doesn't shut off preouts? And no volume control?


----------



## mattlach

ld100 said:


> So plugging headphones doesn't shut off preouts? And no volume control?




Hmm. Is that accurate?

I don't mind headphones not disabling the preamp outs, as I find it to be a nuisance to disconnect the headphones in order to use the speakers, but a lack of volume control on the preamps out would mean that you'd need a separate pre-amp if using powered speakers, which would be a bummer.

Can anyone clarify the above?


----------



## Mr Rick

ld100 said:


> So plugging headphones doesn't shut off preouts? And no volume control?


 
 Pre-outs are always live, and volume control always works. Only way to eliminate signal to headphones is to remove them, or turn down volume. Same with pre-outs.


----------



## ld100

mr rick said:


> Pre-outs are always live, and volume control always works. Only way to eliminate signal to headphones is to remove them, or turn down volume. Same with pre-outs.




I am confused. So with powered monitors you have to control volume on the monitors? Mine have controls on the back and that makes it difficult. Also with headphones in monitors are still on and you need to shut down volume on monitors? Something does not make sense here to me...


----------



## mattlach

ld100 said:


> I am confused. So with powered monitors you have to control volume on the monitors? Mine have controls on the back and that makes it difficult. Also with headphones in monitors are still on and you need to shut down volume on monitors? Something does not make sense here to me...




On my Lyr 2 which I am returning, the volume knob controls volume for both the amplified output and the preamp output.

So, you can hook up a set of powered speakers and do a one time volume calibration using the knobs on the back and then for day to day use, adjust volume using the volume knob on the Lyr 2.

I'm assuming the Jotunheim works the same way.


----------



## ld100

mattlach said:


> On my Lyr 2 which I am returning, the volume knob controls volume for both the amplifies output and the preamp output.
> 
> So, you can hook up a set of powered speakers and do a one time volume cslibratuonbusingbthr knobs on the back and then for day to day use, adjust volume using the volume knob on the Lyr 2.
> 
> I'm assuming the Jotunheim works the same way.


 
  
 Would be nice if someone could confirm. So far it seems that it does not.


----------



## Mr Rick

ld100 said:


> Would be nice if someone could confirm. So far it seems that it does not.


 
  
 Don't believe us? Contact Schiit directly.


----------



## jchandler3

It's a preamp, which means it's volume-controlled always. 

If I want my monitors muted, I turn them off. If I want my headphones muted, I unplug them.


----------



## Ancipital

ld100 said:


> Would be nice if someone could confirm. So far it seems that it does not.


 
  
 Well, unless these cold drugs are stronger than I suspected, it does 
  
 I have some powered monitors hung off the back of my Jot, with balanced cables. I have set the gain on the monitors to be the same (actually, just used their centre volume detents, which I suspect might be unity or somesuch. When they're turned on, the volume knob on the Jot will control them, as well as the level out to the headphones. The Jot doesn't care if there are headphones plugged in or not; the pre-outs are always active. They're always controlled by the volume knob.
  
 I hope that helps.


----------



## watchnerd

ancipital said:


> Well, unless these cold drugs are stronger than I suspected, it does
> 
> I have some powered monitors hung off the back of my Jot, with balanced cables. I have set the gain on the monitors to be the same (actually, just used their centre volume detents, which I suspect might be unity or somesuch. When they're turned on, the volume knob on the Jot will control them, as well as the level out to the headphones. The Jot doesn't care if there are headphones plugged in or not; the pre-outs are always active. They're always controlled by the volume knob.
> 
> I hope that helps.


 
  
 Mjolnir 2 behaves the same way.


----------



## ld100

mr rick said:


> Don't believe us? Contact Schiit directly.


 
  
  
 I did not say I do not believe you. I am just confused. Two posts after yours it clearly says:
  
 "The Jot doesn't care if there are headphones plugged in or not; the pre-outs are always active."
  
 So that means that both headphones and monitors are active and that seems as in inconvenience for me. My monitors do not have a front control and turning them off would be extremely inconvenient for me. I think it would be much more reasonable if when the headphones were in pre outs would be off. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't it how other Shiit amps work?


----------



## Letmebefrank

ld100 said:


> I did not say I do not believe you. I am just confused. Two posts after yours it clearly says:
> 
> "The Jot doesn't care if there are headphones plugged in or not; the pre-outs are always active."
> 
> So that means that both headphones and monitors are active and that seems as in inconvenience for me. My monitors do not have a front control and turning them off would be extremely inconvenient for me. I think it would be much more reasonable if when the headphones were in pre outs would be off. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't it how other Shiit amps work?




Some other schiit amps do this, but not the Jotunheim. Pre outs are always active.


----------



## mattlach

ld100 said:


> I did not say I do not believe you. I am just confused. Two posts after yours it clearly says:
> 
> "The Jot doesn't care if there are headphones plugged in or not; the pre-outs are always active."
> 
> So that means that both headphones and monitors are active and that seems as in inconvenience for me. My monitors do not have a front control and turning them off would be extremely inconvenient for me. I think it would be much more reasonable if when the headphones were in pre outs would be off. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't it how other Shiit amps work?


 
  
 So, I did some more research, and you are correct.
  
 Pre-amp outs DO NOT mute when headphones are attached.
  
 Jason Stoddard (co-founder at Schiit) has explained this as being due to the fact that there is no 4 pin XLR connector that supports muting when connected, like TRS connectors do, so they had no choice.
  
 So while there are many upsides to having balanced outs, we just found one of the downsides.  No connector manufacturer makes a 4 pin XLR connector with a mute switch.
  
 This is a bummer, for people with active monitors that don't ahve convenient power switches, but there are options.
  
 If you use single ended pre-amp outs, you could use a Schiit Sys to mute the speakers when not in use, but if you use balanced connectors, there aren't any Schiit options, at least not yet.
  
 Some people seem to think that ]this little device does a good job to remedy the situation, but it does add $60 to the budget.


----------



## Letmebefrank

Jotunheim v2 will likely have a 3 way switch for selecting output on the front with the other two switches. Middle = both, up for pre, down for hp. Seems to be the only complaint I have heard numerous times.


----------



## watchnerd

ld100 said:


> Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't it how other Shiit amps work?


 
  
 Not all of them.  The Mjolnir 2 pre-outs always stay active regardless if a heaphone is plugged in or not.
  
 When I want to listen to headphones, I just reach back and turn off my monitors.  Takes 10 seconds.


----------



## mattlach

watchnerd said:


> Not all of them.  The Mjolnir 2 pre-outs always stay active regardless if a heaphone is plugged in or not.
> 
> When I want to listen to headphones, I just reach back and turn off my monitors.  Takes 10 seconds.


 
  
 Makes perfect sense then, since the Mjolnir2 also is balanced.


----------



## Delayeed

Not much comparisons between MJ2 LISST and Jotunheim. Would like to hear which one sounds cleaner/clearer.


----------



## Ancipital

mattlach said:


> So, I did some more research, and you are correct.


 
  
 I know, thanks. I use that config most days


----------



## Tuneslover

watchnerd said:


> Not all of them.  The Mjolnir 2 pre-outs always stay active regardless if a heaphone is plugged in or not.
> 
> When I want to listen to headphones, I just reach back and turn off my monitors.  Takes 10 seconds.



I agree it's not as big of a deal as you may think. Initially I thought it was a bit of a hassle (being familiar with the Modi2U and Vali2) but like anything else once you become accustomed to it, it's no longer an issue.


----------



## mattlach

mattlach said:


> Grrr.
> 
> My original Fedex delivery estimate for my Jotunheim was for today.   Tracking page on Fedex still says today by the end of the day, but it stood out as odd to me that it was not yet listed as out for delivery, and instead was in the next state over, en route to my local delivery facility, so I called them, and now they are saying delivery won't be until Tuesday
> 
> Fedex Ground appears to be messing up a lot with delivery estimates these days, at least in my area.   Has anyone else had this issue?


 
  
 Alright,
  
 Now someone must be playing a practical joke on me or something:
  

  
 Package en route from CA to MA travels in the following order???
  
 CA -> MA -> NH -> CT -> OH?
  
 What's next?   Maybe Texas for good measure?


----------



## franzdom

delayeed said:


> Not much comparisons between MJ2 LISST and Jotunheim. Would like to hear which one sounds cleaner/clearer.


 
  
 These are VERY similar. Actually I think the Jotunheim has a darker floor but just slightly. They have similar power, IIRC it depends on load resistance which has more max power. I did NOT care for the LISST option, noisy for me, sharp, not as pleasant as Jotunheim. I really enjoy both amps and exchange one for another occasionally.


----------



## rovopio

mattlach said:


> Alright,
> 
> Now someone must be playing a practical joke on me or something:
> What's next?   Maybe Texas for good measure?


 
  
 Who'd have known. There is?are Fedex people here that are Schiit fans looks like, lol. But hey, look at the bright side, you save 20+ bucks by using Ground instead of 2 days right...


----------



## franzdom

ld100 said:


> I did not say I do not believe you. I am just confused. Two posts after yours it clearly says:
> 
> "The Jot doesn't care if there are headphones plugged in or not; the pre-outs are always active."
> 
> So that means that both headphones and monitors are active and that seems as in inconvenience for me. My monitors do not have a front control and turning them off would be extremely inconvenient for me. I think it would be much more reasonable if when the headphones were in pre outs would be off. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't it how other Shiit amps work?


 
  
 Plug your speakers into a remote controlled switch.


----------



## franzdom

mattlach said:


> Alright,
> 
> Now someone must be playing a practical joke on me or something:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Something very strange going on, almost like there are 2 labels that are scanning the same number out there. I mean how did it get from CT to OH in 3 minutes???


----------



## Xyrium

mattlach said:


> Alright,
> Now someone must be playing a practical joke on me or something:
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 OMG, Fed Ex, so sad, yet hilarious. Talk about torture...


----------



## mattlach

rovopio said:


> Who'd have known. There is?are Fedex people here that are Schiit fans looks like, lol. But hey, look at the bright side, you save 20+ bucks by using Ground instead of 2 days right...




I've always believed patience is a virtue.

I've never once in my life paid extra for faster shipping, and I order a ton of stuff online.

My last few orders from Schiit via FedEx Ground got here in 4 days which is very respectable for coast to coast ground.

This one has an original delivery estimate of 4 days as well (Dec 3rd) but now it just says "Pending".

My plan was to reuse the outer shipping box to return my Lyr 2 back to Schiit, but now I hope I don't run out of time


----------



## Wyllio

mattlach said:


> I've always believed patience is a virtue.
> 
> I've never once in my life paid extra for faster shipping, and I order a ton of stuff online.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I was in the same boat; my Jotunheim also left Schiit's facility the same time yours did. It was scheduled to be delivered on 12/3 and my tracking info didn't update after leaving California, luckily mine was delivered today. The extra transit time is probably due to the influx of things being shipped for the holidays and all the amazon prime stuff on a 2 day delivery time.


----------



## mattlach

franzdom said:


> Something very strange going on, almost like there are 2 labels that are scanning the same number out there. I mean how did it get from CT to OH in 3 minutes???


 
  
 They are just that FAST!  lol
  
 More seriously though, good catch, I didn't look at the details that closely.
  
 I'm thinking one of two things probably happened:
  
 - One of those scanners they use has the wrong time and date on it, and it's updating the database with entries out of order as a result
  
 - Scanner misread at some point resulting in another package scanning with my number, and winding up in my tracking history.   This is improbable, as barcodes have checksums built in, but not impossible.
  
 That, in combination with, someone threw it on the wrong truck at some point too


----------



## ld100

franzdom said:


> Plug your speakers into a remote controlled switch.


 
  
  
 ??


----------



## mattlach

ld100 said:


> ??




He is probably taking about power strips with remote switches.

There are power switches you can turn on and off with a little remote control. There are also extension cords with remote wired power switches.

It feels a little bit like a hack, but it certainly should work.


----------



## franzdom

Or WiFi 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  

 http://www.ihomeaudio.com/isp5wc/


----------



## ToddRaymond

This may be a bit crass, but I feel like for some, a lot more time will have been spent whining about the lack of preamp muting on these threads (and researching workarounds) than the cumulative few seconds here and there spend reaching around back and just switching off the bleepin' monitors.  I understand though, as a lot of us put a lot of thought and energy into setting up our stuff _just so_, and so on.


----------



## watchnerd

turdski said:


> This may be a bit crass, but I feel like for some, a lot more time will have been spent whining about the lack of preamp muting on these threads (and researching workarounds) than the cumulative few seconds here and there spend reaching around back and just switching off the bleepin' monitors.  I understand though, as a lot of us put a lot of thought and energy into setting up our stuff _just so_, and so on.


 
  
 I think the friction is caused by a few things:
  
 1. It's a deviation from how SE Schiit amps work, i.e. they mute
  
 2. It's a deviation from how other SE amps work, i.e. they mute
  
 3. The Schiit balanced amps may often be "my first balanced amp"
  
 4. It's not explicitly mentioned in the product FAQs, so may be a bit of a surprise.  I know it was for me, and I thought I had a defect, at first.


----------



## mattlach

watchnerd said:


> 3. The Schiit balanced amps may often be "my first balanced amp"




Lol @ "my first amplifier" comment.


----------



## ld100

turdski said:


> This may be a bit crass, but I feel like for some, a lot more time will have been spent whining about the lack of preamp muting on these threads (and researching workarounds) than the cumulative few seconds here and there spend reaching around back and just switching off the bleepin' monitors.  I understand though, as a lot of us put a lot of thought and energy into setting up our stuff _just so_, and so on.


 
  
 It is very inconvenient and and certainly a design flaw. Probably forced and justified, but they should've added a front switch...


----------



## Wyllio

An expensive solution would be to buy a Schiit SYS($50) for SE output or Emotiva Crontol Freak($60) for XLR output to mute your speakers. While the inexpensive method would be buying a few wireless remote outlet switch and plug the speakers into the switch and turn them off when needed.


----------



## nerone

ld100 said:


> It is very inconvenient and and certainly a design flaw. Probably forced and justified, but they should've added a front switch...



I wouldn't consider it a flaw if the person who designed it never intended it to be the other than what it is. It might lack some functionality that is desired by many here, including myself, but not flawed in any way.


----------



## DougD

mattlach said:


> He is probably taking about power strips with remote switches.
> 
> There are power switches you can turn on and off with a little remote control. *There are also extension cords with remote wired power switches.*
> 
> It feels a little bit like a hack, but it certainly should work.


 
  
 By lucky coincidence, this is the season that such extension cords are readily available at reasonable prices. They make them so that someone can turn all of his/her Christmas tree lights on or off with one button, without having to crawl under the tree or snuggle behind to the electrical outlet. 
  
 Any store with a large collection of xmas decorations will likely have some. 
  
 HTH


----------



## bassaddicted

Just received my Jot with dac. The driver install was a pain. The auto setup from Schiit's website didn't work. I had to use Windows device manager to install the driver.
  
 I have a pair of LCD-2f on the way. However with my foam modded HD558, I can't hear any difference vs the tiny cheap Sennheiser USB dongle dac/amp that came with my Sennheiser PC-155 12 years ago. I'm new to the headphone hobby, but have owned high end speakers and stereo components and considered myself as one who reached the "holy grail" before getting out of that hobby. Maybe the dac section on the Jot is lacking or my entry level Sennheisers aren't resolving enough.


----------



## watchnerd

bassaddicted said:


> Just received my Jot with dac. The driver install was a pain. The auto setup from Schiit's website didn't work. I had to use Windows device manager to install the driver.
> 
> I have a pair of LCD-2f on the way. However with my foam modded HD558, I can't hear any difference vs the tiny cheap Sennheiser USB dongle dac/amp that came with my Sennheiser PC-155 12 years ago. I'm new to the headphone hobby, but have owned high end speakers and stereo components and considered myself as one who reached the "holy grail" before getting out of that hobby. Maybe the dac section on the Jot is lacking or my entry level Sennheisers aren't resolving enough.


 
  
 Or maybe both DACs are flawless in the audible range, with any differences being below the hearing threshold, and thus both doing a great job?


----------



## Voxata

Well, you'd definitely be best served with a Modi Multibit... however yes, those cans are lacking. The 400i and HD650 are go-to's IMO for Jot. Balanced of course.


----------



## Letmebefrank

bassaddicted said:


> Just received my Jot with dac. The driver install was a pain. The auto setup from Schiit's website didn't work. I had to use Windows device manager to install the driver.
> 
> I have a pair of LCD-2f on the way. However with my foam modded HD558, I can't hear any difference vs the tiny cheap Sennheiser USB dongle dac/amp that came with my Sennheiser PC-155 12 years ago. I'm new to the headphone hobby, but have owned high end speakers and stereo components and considered myself as one who reached the "holy grail" before getting out of that hobby. Maybe the dac section on the Jot is lacking or my entry level Sennheisers aren't resolving enough.




When I upgraded to the HD650s earlier this year, I gave my cousin my old Hd598. He was down visiting 2 weeks ago and listened to my 650s for the first time, and it blew him right out of the water. Jaw on the floor, he said "it's like the bass player is right here in the room, and there's... (waving hand around) so much detail and space between the other instruments." He is now stalking the HD6xx page for the next drop. He was so pleased with my setup that he will be ordering a modi multibit and Jotunheim as well. I let him borrow my Vali 2 to use with his HD598 for the time being. 

Anyway, your experience may be different than mine, or his, but I am a strong believer that headphones are the most important piece of your setup, followed by amp, then dac.


----------



## mattlach

dougd said:


> By lucky coincidence, this is the season that such extension cords are readily available at reasonable prices. They make them so that someone can turn all of his/her Christmas tree lights on or off with one button, without having to crawl under the tree or snuggle behind to the electrical outlet.
> 
> Any store with a large collection of xmas decorations will likely have some.
> 
> HTH


 
  
 Yep.  The only down side I have seen with these is that none of them (at least the ones I can find) seem to be grounded.
  
 That might be an issue for some.   I'd be tempted to get one, and wire my own ground around it.


----------



## mattlach

mattlach said:


> Alright,
> 
> Now someone must be playing a practical joke on me or something:
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 And the package keeps going west (the wrong direction).
  
 Now it's in Grove City, OH...
  
 Go west young Jotunheim...


----------



## AviP

mattlach said:


> And the package keeps going west (the wrong direction).
> 
> Now it's in Grove City, OH...



I would contact FedEx if I were you.


----------



## mattlach

avip said:


> I would contact FedEx if I were you.


 
  
 Already did (last night) they weren't very helpful, insisting that the package was actually nearby and would be delivered today, but that doesn't jive with the tracking at all.


----------



## franzdom

Have you called Schiit? They need to help at this point...


----------



## mattlach

franzdom said:


> Have you called Schiit? They need to help at this point...


 
  
 I shot them an email earlier today, letting them know that there might be an issue brewing.
  
 FedEx insists it will be with me today (I am skeptical) but I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt, and if they don't come through, and there is no further tracking clarity, I'm going to start pursuing this more seriously tomorrow.


----------



## bassaddicted

Ive shipped a package with FedEx once where the destination was 3 miles from the origin, both in NYC. The package went to Tennessee and back to NY. Stuff like that happens.


----------



## droopy1592

Anyone know the max output in balanced @ 200ohms?


----------



## watchnerd

droopy1592 said:


> Anyone know the max output in balanced @ 200ohms?


 
  
 P = I * V
  
 You should be able to calculate a reasonable approximation by deriving from existing published stats.


----------



## mattlach

watchnerd said:


> P = I * V
> 
> You should be able to calculate a reasonable approximation by deriving from existing published stats.


 
  

  
  
  
 I tried every combination in the electricity wheel but couldn't come up with a result that was constant.  it seems like there are complicated efficiency losses in amplifiers that I couldn't account for.  In the end I just plotted it and did a trend line for him, above, in part because I too was curious.


----------



## potterma

@mattlach  Your curve interpolation method is actually not a bad idea considering how the Jot is spec'ed.  Usually for a voltage amp, there is a linear relationship between rated output power and load impedance.  Obviously, some maximum voltage was not the criteria for the power spec, nor is it based on a maximum current.
  

  
  
 Using Excel's curve fit powers I come up with P = 60.608* R^(-0.746)  Where units are Watts and ohms.  200 ohms comes out to 1.16 W.


----------



## mattlach

potterma said:


> @mattlach  Your curve interpolation method is actually not a bad idea considering how the Jot is spec'ed.  Usually for a voltage amp, there is a linear relationship between rated output power and load impedance.  Obviously, some maximum voltage was not the criteria for the power spec, nor is it based on a maximum current.
> 
> 
> 
> Using Excel's curve fit powers I come up with P = 60.608* R^(-0.746)  Where units are Watts and ohms.  200 ohms comes out to 1.16 W.


 
  
  
 Yours is probably more accurate than mine.  I was interpreting the chart graphically, because I couldn't figure out where OpenOffice Calc hides the formula for best fit it uses for its trend lines.  (I was too lazy to reboot into windows just to use excel)


----------



## potterma

mattlach said:


> Yours is probably more accurate than mine.  I was interpreting the chart graphically, because I couldn't figure out where OpenOffice Calc hides the formula for best fit it uses for its trend lines.  (I was too lazy to reboot into windows just to use excel)


 

 OpenOffice... Yeah... I feel your pain...
 I added calculated voltage and current for each spec for the Jot.  Interesting.  I'd like to hear what the rational behind the ratings was.  Best THD or best THD +N perhaps?


----------



## jimmers

mattlach said:


> Yours is probably more accurate than mine.  I was interpreting the chart graphically, because I couldn't figure out where OpenOffice Calc hides the formula for best fit it uses for its trend lines.  (I was too lazy to reboot into windows just to use excel)


 
 I wouldn't worry too much about accuracy, if you bear in mind a 25% change in power is only 1dB.


----------



## droopy1592

watchnerd said:


> P = I * V
> 
> You should be able to calculate a reasonable approximation by deriving from existing published stats.




When you look at the listed specs, just at a glance it's not linear, thus not correct.


----------



## sarang-i

Do i need balanced dac module upgrade so that let Jotunheim make a sound as balanced?
 Having no idea of this territory, i  will set up my system as stacking of PC - wyrd - mojo - jotunheim - headphone with balanced termination.


----------



## theveterans

sarang-i said:


> Do i need balanced dac module upgrade so that let Jotunheim make a sound as balanced?
> Having no idea of this territory, i  will set up my system as stacking of PC - wyrd - mojo - jotunheim - headphone with balanced termination.


 
  
 Your selection input to Jot is SE, but you can plug your headphones in the 4 pin XLR output to run on balanced.


----------



## sarang-i

theveterans said:


> Your selection input to Jot is SE, but you can plug your headphones in the 4 pin XLR output to run on balanced.


 
 Ok, i would get a decent 3.5 - rca y cable. Thanks.


----------



## MonoOno

Is the DAC option on the Jot comparable to that of the one on the new Fulla 2? I intended to get the Jot with the DAC option but I might get it with the new Fulla 2 instead as it works out to be about the same.
  
 Also, are there any pictures of the black Jot?


----------



## GearMe

It's a Dual 4490 DAC in the Jot...assuming that makes a difference (for balanced?) or they wouldn't have done it.

from Schiit.com...

Optional Dual AK4490 DAC:
USB Input Receiver: C-Media CM6631A
D/A Conversion IC: AK4490 x 2


----------



## MWSVette

gearme said:


> It's a Dual 4490 DAC in the Jot...assuming that makes a difference (for balanced?) or they wouldn't have done it.
> 
> from Schiit.com...
> 
> ...


 
 And at $100.00 it is a bargin...


----------



## zeissiez

In terms of resolving capability, the amp in the Jot clearly exceeds the internal DAC. On the other hand, a Yggy (and perhaps a Gumby too) is clearly more resolving than the Jot. So I guess a Multibit Bifrost or a Multibit Modi is a good match in terms of resolution for the Jot. But of course if we pair with the more expensive DACs like Yggy, we also gain in naturalness, soundstage, precision in imaging, control, balanced-in option.


----------



## watchnerd

zeissiez said:


> In terms of resolving capability, the amp in the Jot clearly exceeds the internal DAC.





>


 
  
 And just what method did you use to determine this?


----------



## zeissiez

watchnerd said:


> >
> 
> 
> 
> ...




By hooking up the better DACs available, Vega, Yggy and a Master 7 to 4 amps I have tried: ECBA, SPL Phonitor, Compass 2, Jot. I heard much more details with the better amps like ECBA compared to the Jot. I heard micro details being grossed over in the Jot. By comparing the internal DAC and Vega and Yggy, feeding to the amp of the Jot, I heard much more details. I haven't heard the Gumby, but I heard from friends that the resolution is close to Yggy, so I speculate with the Gumby here. So my conclusion was the amp of the Jot was much more capable than the internal DAC, but not to the level of Yggy. And I also make assumptions that the Bimby or Mimby being more resolving than the internal DAC, which I think should be the case. To my ears, no ABXYZ tests.


----------



## franzdom

Which Schiit amp do you think is the best match for Yggdrasil?


----------



## zeissiez

franzdom said:


> Which Schiit amp do you think is the best match for Yggdrasil?




The Yggy is very very resolving, it's up to the task of all the top amps I heard. It's one detailed, natural sounding and transparent DAC, easily the best DAC below USD4K. But ironically, micro details doesn't seemed to be Schiit amps emphasis. Schiit amps are great in musicality and tonality, but average in Hifi attributes like transparency, micro detail, refinement, openness, soundstage. Probably the Ragnorak is the closest Schiit amp that can match the Yggy.


----------



## Letmebefrank

Many who compared the Jotunheim to the ragnarok favored the Jotunheim.


----------



## wasupdog

letmebefrank said:


> Many who compared the Jotunheim to the ragnarok favored the Jotunheim.




Maybe for the price. Otherwise the rag is better.


----------



## watchnerd

zeissiez said:


> By hooking up the better DACs available, Vega, Yggy and a Master 7 to 4 amps I have tried: ECBA, SPL Phonitor, Compass 2, Jot. I heard much more details with the better amps like ECBA compared to the Jot. I heard micro details being grossed over in the Jot. By comparing the internal DAC and Vega and Yggy, feeding to the amp of the Jot, I heard much more details. I haven't heard the Gumby, but I heard from friends that the resolution is close to Yggy, so I speculate with the Gumby here. So my conclusion was the amp of the Jot was much more capable than the internal DAC, but not to the level of Yggy. And I also make assumptions that the Bimby or Mimby being more resolving than the internal DAC, which I think should be the case. To my ears, no ABXYZ tests.


 
  
 Interesting, thanks for the detailed reply. What were your transducers?


----------



## watchnerd

franzdom said:


> Which Schiit amp do you think is the best match for Yggdrasil?


 
  
 Why are you matching to the DAC?
  
 You should be matching the amp to your headphones.


----------



## parttimelovah

how does a jotunheim compare to a magni/modi 2 (non uber) stack? i intend on getting the balanced dac and cable to use with my lcd-2s


----------



## watchnerd

parttimelovah said:


> how does a jotunheim compare to a magni/modi 2 (non uber) stack? i intend on getting the balanced dac and cable to use with my lcd-2s


 
  
 I think you answered your own question if balanced is what you want.


----------



## zeissiez

watchnerd said:


> zeissiez said:
> 
> 
> > By hooking up the better DACs available, Vega, Yggy and a Master 7 to 4 amps I have tried: ECBA, SPL Phonitor, Compass 2, Jot. I heard much more details with the better amps like ECBA compared to the Jot. I heard micro details being grossed over in the Jot. By comparing the internal DAC and Vega and Yggy, feeding to the amp of the Jot, I heard much more details. I haven't heard the Gumby, but I heard from friends that the resolution is close to Yggy, so I speculate with the Gumby here. So my conclusion was the amp of the Jot was much more capable than the internal DAC, but not to the level of Yggy. And I also make assumptions that the Bimby or Mimby being more resolving than the internal DAC, which I think should be the case. To my ears, no ABXYZ tests.
> ...




A pair of HD800 and LCD-X. The HD800 is my fav headphone for checking out the sonic performance of a particular gear.


----------



## franzdom

watchnerd said:


> Why are you matching to the DAC?
> 
> You should be matching the amp to your headphones.


 
  
 I am using LCD-3 F mostly but the question was really about trying to understand the post above mine. I think Jot is a great pairing with Yggy but I don't know having not heard many others. About all I have heard are most of the Schiit amps except Rag.


----------



## thefitz

letmebefrank said:


> Many who compared the Jotunheim to the ragnarok favored the Jotunheim.


 

 Many people love the HD700.


----------



## MWSVette

thefitz said:


> Many people love the HD700.


 
 Yep like me...


----------



## Letmebefrank

thefitz said:


> Many people love the HD700.




You are correct but I don't see what it has to do with the jot/rag.


----------



## MWSVette

letmebefrank said:


> You are correct but I don't see what it has to do with the jot/rag.


 
 It does not have anything to do with the Jot/Rag.  He just hates the HD700 and likes to trash them...


----------



## andrejc

I am considering the Jot + DAT MB + HD650 combo. 
Few questions. 
1. How much different the Modi MB & Bifrost MB really are? Is the price difference really justified? 

2. Is it possible to change the plug and voltage later on? Might need to go from USA to Europe plug.


----------



## thefitz

letmebefrank said:


> You are correct but I don't see what it has to do with the jot/rag.


The point is the "some people" argument applies to every possible interpretation in head-fi. For every 999 people that think a headphone sounds one way, you're going to get 1 person who says the exact opposite.


----------



## olor1n

wasupdog said:


> letmebefrank said:
> 
> 
> > Many who compared the Jotunheim to the ragnarok favored the Jotunheim.
> ...


 
  
 I've owned the Ragnarok and now have the Jotunheim. While the Jotunheim punches well above its weight, it's not in the same tier as the Ragnarok IMO. With an Yggy, and if cost is no object, I wouldn't settle for anything less than a Ragnarok.


----------



## watchnerd

letmebefrank said:


> Many who compared the Jotunheim to the ragnarok favored the Jotunheim.


 
  
 What is the source of this?  And how many is "many"?


----------



## Letmebefrank

watchnerd said:


> What is the source of this?  And how many is "many"?




I should rephrase that to "out of the few reviews I've read comparing them both, the majority preferred the Jot."

I was making a sweeping statement in response to a statement from someone who hadnt heard ragnarok with the Yggy, only other amps. 

My source is this thread for the first month of the Jot release. There were tons of reviews, and a handful of people who had listened to both the rag and the Jot, the majority preferring the Jot, some for the price, some regardless of price. 

Many means the majority. When we're talking about ~5 comparisons and 4 said the same thing, that is "many" in that circumstance.

Anyway, use the search function and read for yourself as my memory of posts I read 4 months ago isnt 100%.


----------



## 1mctous

I intend to listen to both computer-based digital and analog LPs, so Schiit's modular approach makes sense to me.


----------



## mwhals

jimmers said:


> Just ordered a Jotunheim, curiosity got the better of me, maybe _*I*_ should have a cat as my avatar :blink:
> 
> I mainly listen to speakers
> 
> ...




LOL! I do have one of our four cats as my avatar.

Now I am subscribed too as a benefit of this post.


----------



## parttimelovah

any photos of the black jot?


----------



## valarking

1mctous said:


> I intend to listen to both computer-based digital and analog LPs, so Schiit's modular approach makes sense to me.


 
  
 Just to make sure, but you understand that you can't easily swap them out right? So to listen to both without other gear you'd need another Jot


----------



## 1mctous

Understood.  I have a separate phono preamp (not the Schiit, although it contended for the spot).


----------



## 1mctous

Understood.  I have a separate phono preamp (not the Schiit, although it contended for the spot).


----------



## valarking

Ok cool, just making sure you wouldn't end up very sad down the road.


----------



## jmc15john

parttimelovah said:


> any photos of the black jot?




I ordered one on Friday. I'll post pics when it arrives.


----------



## mattlach

parttimelovah said:


> any photos of the black jot?


 
  
 Well, you know what the Jotunheim looks like, and you know what black looks like, right?


----------



## MWSVette

parttimelovah said:


> any photos of the black jot?


 
  
 It will look something like this,


----------



## mwhals

watchnerd said:


> I also have a pair of JBL LSR305 in one of our office set ups.
> 
> It's hard to do definitively better than the LSR305 until you get to the ~$500 each / ~$1000 pair level (Adam, Dynaudio, Eve Audio, Focal).




Are all of those speakers self powered?


----------



## watchnerd

mwhals said:


> Are all of those speakers self powered?


 
  
 Adam and Eve exclusively make powered monitors.
  
 Dynaudio and Focal have both home and pro lines. The pro lines are powered.


----------



## mwhals

watchnerd said:


> Adam and Eve exclusively make powered monitors.
> 
> Dynaudio and Focal have both home and pro lines. The pro lines are powered.




Thanks.


----------



## mwhals

Wow! Just finished reading all 193 pages of this thread. I even hit the USB power disagreements that were 4 pages long.

The Jodie does look like a very capable and transparent amp.

I am thinking of getting it with the DAC card and a Multibit dac (Mimby or Bimby). With both well mastered and poorly mastered music, I could switch to the internal dac to soften poorly mastered music if needed. Does this make sense?

I will use it with the ZMF Omni and later with the ZMF Atticus and Eikon. It will be fed from my PC USB port, but I know the solutions if it is noisy after 193 pages.


----------



## MWSVette

mwhals said:


> Wow! Just finished reading all 193 pages of this thread. I even hit the USB power disagreements that were 4 pages long.
> 
> The Jodie does look like a very capable and transparent amp.
> 
> ...


 
 Yes it does make sense and are you are dedicated to read all 193 pages..


----------



## econaut

I plan to get the Focal Elear and drive it with the Jotunheim and the Modi Multibit.
  
 Maybe in a second step I will change cables in order to drive the Elear in balanced mode.
  
 I will be able to listen to the Elear soon, but there's no way I can check out the Schiits beforehand.
  
 Does this sound like a good idea to you or have I overlooked something?
  
 Thanks


----------



## Brian D

jmc15john said:


> I ordered one on Friday. I'll post pics when it arrives.


 
 I would appreciate pictures also, thanks!


----------



## rovopio

mwhals said:


> Wow! Just finished reading all 193 pages of this thread. I even hit the USB power disagreements that were 4 pages long.
> 
> The Jodie does look like a very capable and transparent amp.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I hope you are listening to music when you do that. Because dang.


----------



## mwhals

rovopio said:


> I hope you are listening to music when you do that. Because dang.




I was and part of the time I was getting my steps walking. Also, I skipped over parts that didn't matter to me such as modding the HD650 as I do not have that headphone.


----------



## mattlach

rovopio said:


> I hope you are listening to music when you do that. Because dang.


 
  
  
 Yeah, I often wish that long threads had someone to edit a synopsis of the latest revelations so you don't have to go through and read 200 pages to learn what could be learned in one post if properly summarized


----------



## Ancipital

econaut said:


> I plan to get the Focal Elear and drive it with the Jotunheim and the Modi Multibit.
> 
> Maybe in a second step I will change cables in order to drive the Elear in balanced mode.
> 
> ...


 
  
 That depends- how treble sensitive are you? You might find the Elear rather shouty out of the Jot, in the upper mid/lower treble. A forward-sounding SS amp will just emphasise that.


----------



## inanevoyage

mattlach said:


> Yeah, I often wish that long threads had someone to edit a synopsis of the latest revelations so you don't have to go through and read 200 pages to learn what could be learned in one post if properly summarized


 
 This is one reason I prefer the reddit format. The best posts rise to the top, and you get to save your time avoiding nonsense.


----------



## Hofy

inanevoyage said:


> This is one reason I prefer the reddit format. The best posts rise to the top, and you get to save your time avoiding nonsense.


 
 This is the very reason I can not stand reddit.  To me it is a dis-organized cluster that is hard to read.


----------



## mwhals

inanevoyage said:


> This is one reason I prefer the reddit format. The best posts rise to the top, and you get to save your time avoiding nonsense.







hofy said:


> This is the very reason I can not stand reddit.  To me it is a dis-organized cluster that is hard to read.




I am not a fan of reddit either.


----------



## andrejc

Going to get a Dac Jot + Bimby + HD650

Should I use my $70 Sound Blaster card with an optical out or a USB to Bimby?

Thanks!


----------



## Vigrith

Out of curiosity, has anyone tried the HD650s with both the Jotunheim and the Valhalla 2? I own the Jotun so I am aware how heavily the pairing is, I'm just curious how it fares with the V2 in comparison as I'm pondering purchasing one for a tertiary setup that'll be housing the new HD6XX MD have just shipped me earlier today.
  
 Just wish the black chassis limited run would make a comeback, the black V2 is insane.


----------



## MWSVette

vigrith said:


> Out of curiosity, has anyone tried the HD650s with both the Jotunheim and the Valhalla 2? I own the Jotun so I am aware how heavily the pairing is, I'm just curious how it fares with the V2 in comparison as I'm pondering purchasing one for a tertiary setup that'll be housing the new HD6XX MD have just shipped me earlier today.
> 
> Just wish the black chassis limited run would make a comeback, the black V2 is insane.


 
 OTL amps really drive the 300 ohm HD6xx series very well. I have not used a Valhalla 2 but I did use the original Valhalla and it really made my high impedance cans sing...


----------



## cskippy

I recently picked up a used Valhalla 2 and am pairing it with the HD650. Previously I was using the Jotunheim. No doubt the Jot/650 combo is great but the Valhalla2 just beings you one step closer to the music. Everything is so much more tangible like you can sense the space surrounding each instrument. The layer and depth presented are clearly superior on the Valhalla 2. IMO, stock tubes are just fine but I'm loving some WE2C51.


----------



## cskippy

Double post


----------



## Vigrith

mwsvette said:


> OTL amps really drive the 300 ohm HD6xx series very well. I have not used a Valhalla 2 but I did use the original Valhalla and it really made my high impedance cans sing...


 
  


cskippy said:


> I recently picked up a used Valhalla 2 and am pairing it with the HD650. Previously I was using the Jotunheim. No doubt the Jot/650 combo is great but the Valhalla2 just beings you one step closer to the music. Everything is so much more tangible like you can sense the space surrounding each instrument. The layer and depth presented are clearly superior on the Valhalla 2. IMO, stock tubes are just fine but I'm loving some WE2C51.


 
  
 I appreciate the answers, guys. I am aware OTL amps are amazing with 300 ohm headphones, I was just curious whether the V2 specifically would match the 650s as fantastically as the Jotun does. Think I'll be giving it a go and see how I like the pairing, I'm sure I'll like it very much, just need to figure out how it compares to the Jotunheim.


----------



## MWSVette

vigrith said:


> I appreciate the answers, guys. I am aware OTL amps are amazing with 300 ohm headphones, I was just curious whether the V2 specifically would match the 650s as fantastically as the Jotun does. Think I'll be giving it a go and see how I like the pairing, I'm sure I'll like it very much, just need to figure out how it compares to the Jotunheim.


 
 If the only headphones you are going to own are high impedance then go with the Valhalla 2.  If you are considering planers or the cans the like higher wattage more than voltage swings then go with the Jot.  Both are great amps but the Valhalla 2 is not as flexible as the Jotunheim.
  
 And of course IMHO, YMMV, yada yada yada...


----------



## Vigrith

mwsvette said:


> If the only headphones you are going to own are high impedance then go with the Valhalla 2.  If you are considering planers or the cans the like higher wattage more than voltage swings then go with the Jot.  Both are great amps but the Valhalla 2 is not as flexible as the Jotunheim.
> 
> And of course IMHO, YMMV, yada yada yada...


 
  
 Yea I'm not going to be using planars with that setup, it's just a small ish footprint chain for the living room so we can have the HD6xx there for if we don't want to use speakers every now and then, I'm not looking for versatility, just a good match - I already own a Jotun (at the office) so was pondering either just getting another one or buying a V2 and trying that out.
  
 Appreciate the insight though, I think I'll just get a V2 once it's back in stock on Schiit-europe, I'm sure it'll sound great with the 650s.


----------



## bigro

vigrith said:


> Yea I'm not going to be using planars with that setup, it's just a small ish footprint chain for the living room so we can have the HD6xx there for if we don't want to use speakers every now and then, I'm not looking for versatility, just a good match - I already own a Jotun (at the office) so was pondering either just getting another one or buying a V2 and trying that out.
> 
> Appreciate the insight though, I think I'll just get a V2 once it's back in stock on Schiit-europe, I'm sure it'll sound great with the 650s.


 
 I Tried my Valhalla 2 with HD 650's back in October at the Nashville meet. They sounded Really good.SO good in fact that the HD 600/650 was a top contender but price led me to getting the  beyerdynamic dt990 600 ohm for less than Half the price of the senns. This will be my sit near the chair by the fireplace so I can settle in with a glass of something of moderate proof so I I don't piss off the wife with the 2 Channel rig. There is a Valhalla 2 Tube rolling thread with many mentions of the HD 650's pair well with the Valhalla 2 and the right tubes.


----------



## econaut

ancipital said:


> That depends- how treble sensitive are you? You might find the Elear rather shouty out of the Jot, in the upper mid/lower treble. A forward-sounding SS amp will just emphasise that.


 
 Thanks for the reply 
  
 Currently I use three headphones:
  

At home: AKG K702 (with bass mod)
when commuting: Sennheiser HD25 Aluminium -> "upper mids and treble are slightly forward"
 for sports: DUNU DN-1000 -> "The top end of the DN-1000 is bright and crisp, and again rather typical of a TWFK-based earphone."
  
 I have two rooms with Klipsch loudspeakers (horn-loaded).
  
 Considering these choices I _guess _I am not treble sensitive, but I am not sure.


----------



## Ancipital

econaut said:


> Thanks for the reply
> 
> Currently I use three headphones:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, the AKG 702 can be a bit nasty in the upper mids/low treble- the Elear have a bit of a spiked response in a similar area. If you're OK with the 702, then maybe the Elear won't be like Kryptonite to you. I haven't heard the "bass mod" that you mention, though, admittedly.
  
 Anyway, the Elear is a far better headphone in terms of most technicalities, and a lot more resolving, though I am not sure about sound stage. However, it'd still be a hefty upgrade in general. (The Jotunheim has a very wide but shallow stage, for what it's worth)
  
 You probably won't have an issue, though maybe get the Elears from somewhere with easy returns just in case? Then there's no risk. As for the Jotunheim, I'm certainly in no position to talk you out of that- you'd be hard-pressed to find a better value solid state amp right now, brilliant bang for your buck. It'll probably stay on your desk long after you add a fancy tube amp, too. It's a very decent bit of kit.
  
 That said, there's a lot to recommend just throwing some HD650 on the Jotunheim, via a balanced cable. Given the price differential, the Elear doesn't leave them in the dust quite as much as people might hope. It's a slightly different flavour, a touch dark, but the Jot really does bulldoze through a lot of the sleepiness of the HD650, producing a surprisingly nicely-controlled sound.


----------



## splodinjoe

> Question for yall'
> 
> I've had the Jot + DAC for a few days now. I've been enjoying it but last night I plugged in my O2+ODAC to do some A/Bing and noticed something that kind of distressed me. First of all I was really surprised by how different they actually sounded. I figured they would be pretty similar but it's obvious which is which when playing back the same song. What concerns me more is what happens when I turn them both up.
> 
> ...


----------



## mattlach

splodinjoe said:


> [COLOR=000000]Question for yall'
> 
> 
> 
> ...




What does it sound like?

Is it possible the combo is just more revealing and you can hear some of the distortion that is in the source?

What inputs/outputs are you using?

I've noticed some distortion too. At first I thought it was my headphones not handling the volume, but I turned the volume down low and I could still hear it. I assumed the recordings just contained the distortion.

As crazy as it may sound, some sound engineers responsible for mixing/mastering actually intentionally add "blown speaker" type sounds into their mixes these days to make the music sound "louder" and trick the brain, because the brain interpersonal louder as better.

For what it's worth I think this distortion was there on my Lyr 2 as well, with both stock tubes and my 1975 Voskhods.

At this point I'm pretty sure I'm just hearing distortion in the source material, but that audio nervosa is tricky and always lingers in the back of the mind.


----------



## Jakob Volder

Hey guys,
  
 I am new to this whole "audiophile" thing. I recently purchased a pair of HD650's and want to get a nice amp to run those badboys. I am looking at the Jotunheim as a nice option.
  
 I do have some questions though:
 Is it perfectly fine to have the Jotunheim by itself?
 Do you need the Jotunheim with the dac implementation, so I can add a dac later on and 'future-proof' it a bit.
  
 sorry if these questions are a bit silly.. 
  
 Thanks in advance guys!


----------



## mattlach

jakob volder said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I am new to this whole "audiophile" thing. I recently purchased a pair of HD650's and want to get a nice amp to run those badboys. I am looking at the Jotunheim as a nice option.
> 
> ...




The Jotunheim and the HD650's are reportedly a great pairing, especially since the HD650's both scale well with good amplification (and the Jotunheim is good) and because the HD650's are very easy to do a cable mod to make them balanced.

As far as the DAC goes, people's opinions differ. The traditional wisdom is that you spend on transducers (headphones/speakers) before amps and amp's before DAC's but IMHO it's almost a bit silly to get such a great amp and headphone combo and not get a DAC. 

The JD650's and Jotunheim are reportedly so good together that they will quickly reveal deficiencies on the DAC side if present, especially if you are using a regular on board or sound card 3.5mm line out. Those are the worst.

You don't HAVE to get the DAC right away. You can order the Jotunheim without the DAC (that's how I ordered mine) but if you later want the internal DAC it is not user serviceable. You have to send the Jotunheim back, and pay Schiit to install the module for you, so if you are planning on going this route, it might be a lot more convenient to get them at the same time.

If I were you I'd plan on also getting a DAC, and this is where it becomes a bit of a balancing act.

The $100 built in DAC is balanced like the Jotunheim, but is only delta-sigma, not Multibit.

The separate DAC's in this price range are potentially Multibit (like the $249 Modi Multibit) but then are single ended only, not balanced.

So unless you want to spend huge money on a DAC (like the $1,249 Gungnir Multibit) you are going to be choosing between balanced sigma-delta and single ended multibit.

The preferred choice in that trade-off in here seems to be single-handed Multibit with the Modi Multibit, but there are many that prefer balanced sigma-delta as well.


----------



## Alchemist007

How much of a benefit do you even get from an external dac single vs balanced. From the amp to headphone side I understand.


----------



## franzdom

jakob volder said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I am new to this whole "audiophile" thing. I recently purchased a pair of HD650's and want to get a nice amp to run those badboys. I am looking at the Jotunheim as a nice option.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Good DAC's (meaning not the one built into your computer or phone etc.) make the sound a LOT quieter and often less harsh and many other even more wonderful things. Short answer, get some sort of DAC separate from your source, be it a standalone or integrated with an amp.


----------



## Ancipital

alchemist007 said:


> How much of a benefit do you even get from an external dac single vs balanced. From the amp to headphone side I understand.


 
  
 If the SE DAC is relatively clean, the difference simply between going in to the Jot SE or balanced is very marginal. Both inputs are well-implemented and clean, and you should be going for minimal cable runs anyway. 
  
 For example, getting a Modi 2 Multibit rather than the built-in DAC will sound noticeably better- it's only SE, but it's a clean, well-implemented SE, and a better vastly DAC. It also has more input options. It's slightly more expensive, but is so obviously the best bargain in DACs that it's hilarious.The built- in option is just 4490 based, a Delta/Sigma DAC, and while perfectly reasonable in implementation, sounds distinctly bog standard in comparison.
  
 DAC differences are normally said to be subtle- this is one of the bigger differences you'll hear in DACs, and all for about $150 more.


----------



## econaut

ancipital said:


> [...]
> 
> That said, there's a lot to recommend just throwing some HD650 on the Jotunheim, via a balanced cable. Given the price differential, the Elear doesn't leave them in the dust quite as much as people might hope. It's a slightly different flavour, a touch dark, but the Jot really does bulldoze through a lot of the sleepiness of the HD650, producing a surprisingly nicely-controlled sound.


 
  
 It's ok for me to spend 1000€ on the Elear - only if I like it, of course. I will finally be able to listen to it next monday, also in comparison to HD650 etc. I don't care about the soundstage, because I will keep my K702s 
  
 The HD650 is not of interest to me, because of its supposedly warm and laid back sound. I do get the idea of the ideal pairing of Jotunheim with the HD650, though. What would be an ideal pairing amp for the Elear, then?
  
  


> [...]





> The separate DAC's in this price range are potentially Multibit (like the $249 Modi Multibit) but then are single ended only, not balanced.
> 
> So unless you want to spend huge money on a DAC (like the $1,249 Gungnir Multibit) you are going to be choosing between balanced sigma-delta and single ended multibit.
> 
> The preferred choice in that trade-off in here seems to be single-handed Multibit with the Modi Multibit, but there are many that prefer balanced sigma-delta as well.


 
  
 I need some clarification here. The Jotunheim can "convert" single ended input from the RCA, for instance, to balanced output to the headphones. This is confirmed, so where is the problem? Just get a Modi Multibit, connect it via RCA to the Jotunheim and you have multibit and balanced headphone output both at the same time.


----------



## mattlach

econaut said:


> I need some clarification here. The Jotunheim can "convert" single ended input from the RCA, for instance, to balanced output to the headphones. This is confirmed, so where is the problem? Just get a Modi Multibit, connect it via RCA to the Jotunheim and you have multibit and balanced headphone output both at the same time.




Yeah, it works just fine and sounds good. I'm doing this now.

That being said, one wonders how much better it might sound to have the entire chain be balanced.


----------



## Ancipital

> I need some clarification here. The Jotunheim can "convert" single ended input from the RCA, for instance, to balanced output to the headphones. This is confirmed, so where is the problem? Just get a Modi Multibit, connect it via RCA to the Jotunheim and you have multibit and balanced headphone output both at the same time.


 
  
 There is no problem, go balanced in, SE in, balanced out, SE out, whatever you prefer. Unlike some other amps, the Jot doesn't have gimped SE or fudged balanced. It all works the way it should, and is surprisingly close in quality.
  
 You will notice a bit more of a difference with balanced headphone connection, as what balanced means in headphone terms is subtly different to what it means in "proper" audio terms. The balanced headphone option gives you more power and slew rate, rather than just differential noise cancellation- a small but nicely audible advantage..
  
 Balanced in from the DAC is more conventional balanced audio as used in pro and broadcast audio, where the main advantage is the ability to reject common mode interference- which shouldn't really be a problem. Just use decent cables, keep them short and don't run your amp in a working microwave oven.
  
 Balanced in will be very marginally cleaner, in the "you can measure it with expensive lab audio analysers but would never be able to hear it" sort of sense. It can be reproducibly measured, but for our purposes, the differences are frankly academic. This is testament to what a good job Schiit have done, rather than a failing. You're absolutely correct- hook that Modi Multibit up SE, and go balanced out into your headphones.. it'll sound great- like one of the best bargains in headphone audio, in fact.
  
 (For people who wonder about the differences between the SE and balanced performance of the Jot, the measurements are out there, floating about The Interwebs..)
  
  


econaut said:


> It's ok for me to spend 1000€ on the Elear - only if I like it, of course. I will finally be able to listen to it next monday, also in comparison to HD650 etc. I don't care about the soundstage, because I will keep my K702s
> 
> The HD650 is not of interest to me, because of its supposedly warm and laid back sound. I do get the idea of the ideal pairing of Jotunheim with the HD650, though. What would be an ideal pairing amp for the Elear, then?


 
  
 Damn, I was really hoping you wouldn't answer that- as I am not sure there's a definitive answer. You want a good resolving amp to show it off well, though I'd avoid very bright amps.
  
 My biggest issue with the Elear isn't really soluble with amp swapping, anyway- it has a big suckout around 4-6kHz, and then some spikes around 7 and 9kHz (the shoutyness that I might have mentioned before). Look for reputable measurements and don't trust my memory of the freqs though, I suck.
  
 They're generally quite detailed resolving headphones- very fast for dynamic drivers, but that suckout.. well, it's a problem if you like classical music, that's for sure- it's right where violins are often at their best. The tuning is a bit.. odd. It's not unusual, the HD800 has a similar issue, the Elear is in good company in that respect. Oddly, the headphones that fare best in that respect are the HD650.. and the Utopia! Go figure. It's quite a heavy dip, so not readily fixed with EQ. If it didn't have this bit of funky tuning, the Elear would be the stone cold 650 killer that people were hoping for, a sort of "mini-Utopia".
  
 Now that may not be an issue at all for you- if you can't hear it, all well and good. Ignorance really is bliss in this case


----------



## econaut

Thanks for clearing that up, the two of you 
  
 Concerning the Elear and Jotunheim combination - if the amp should not sound too bright, how should it sound then? Rather warm? Would a tube amp to be a good idea? Or can you recommend another solid state amp or amps for the Elear?
  
 My plan is to get the cans straight, first - of course - so maybe I actually end up with a HD650 
  
 I dig the Schiit aproach, so it would be nice if the Jotunheim or another Schiit amp would pair nicely with the cans, but I am not limited to Schiit in terms of DAC and amp.


----------



## mattlach

econaut said:


> Thanks for clearing that up, the two of you
> 
> Concerning the Elear and Jotunheim combination - if the amp should not sound too bright, how should it sound then? Rather warm? Would a tube amp to be a good idea? Or can you recommend another solid state amp or amps for the Elear?
> 
> ...




Now you are exiting the realm of objective fact and entering the realm of subjective opinion.

It's really going to depend on your preferences. If you like a warmer sound, a tube amp is probably going to be our style. If you like a faster more accurate sound, somrthing solid state.

It's really tough to tell you what to get, even if we know your preferences. Best thing to do is to listen to them yourself. 

Go to a meet, bring your gear and test listen to others.

For what it's worth, I personally just returned a Schiit Lyr 2 tube amp. I did it. It because the sound wasn't great (it was) but I didn't want to be dependant on hunting for expensive 50-60 year old consumable collectibles online.

While the Jotunheim probably is the better amp, when I first plugged it in, I wasn't all that impressed. It took some adjusting after the Lyr2 with my 1975 Voskhod grey shield tubes.

The sound was warmer, slightly dark, with more of a sound stage than I get with Jotunheim.

I miss the Lyr 2, but I just don't want to get into the audio nervosa involved with buying and trying expensive vintage tubes.

This doesn't mean that this is an objective "Lyr 2 is better than Jotunheim", in fact in objective terms the opposite is probably true, but my ears had grown accustomed to, and slightly favored the tube sound. Others may have had other preferences.

I'm happy with my Jotunheim now though, and I'll never have to worry about funding tubes ever again


----------



## Ancipital

econaut said:


> Thanks for clearing that up, the two of you
> 
> Concerning the Elear and Jotunheim combination - if the amp should not sound too bright, how should it sound then? Rather warm? Would a tube amp to be a good idea? Or can you recommend another solid state amp or amps for the Elear?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Some amps have a very pronounced signature- the Liquid Carbon is a bit thick and dark, the GS-X Mk.2 is very forward and prone to brightness etc.. These are the defining characteristics of those amps. I was just suggesting being careful around amps whose main first impression is of brightness. Otherwise, it becomes a question of taste and budget.
  
 The Jotunheim is a fantastic amp for the price, and you still might be fine with it, if you're not treble averse. You don't have to limit yourself to solid state, either- as long as you don't get sucked in by the "tube rolling" dweebs, who want you to spend the price of the amp again on exotic glass and electrically unsafe adaptors. I am reluctant to make concrete suggestions- there are few really good solid state amps that are reasonably priced, and a lot that are underwhelming for the money. There's also a lot of nonsense talked about tubes. Work out what you're happy spending, and see what fits in your budget, read reviews.. and not just reviews on Head-Fi, which promotes a sort of monoculture of opinion.
  
 Incidentally, there's nothing wrong with Schiit's tube amps, either, if you're looking to stay in their comfort zone. Perfectly respectable.
  
 Sorry to not give you The Answer- but I'd rather not indulge in a display of false certainty. If it looks like I'm dodging the issue for now, it's because I am- I need to go and get some sleep, and don't want to dash off a stupid pat answer for speed and mislead you


----------



## earnmyturns

ancipital said:


> Some amps have a very pronounced signature- the Liquid Carbon is a bit thick and dark, the GS-X Mk.2 is very forward and prone to brightness etc.. These are the defining characteristics of those amps. I was just suggesting being careful around amps whose main first impression is of brightness. Otherwise, it becomes a question of taste and budget.
> 
> The Jotunheim is a fantastic amp for the price, and you still might be fine with it, if you're not treble averse.


 
 I have both Jotunheim and Liquid Carbon. I agree with your assessment of the LC, but to me the Jotunheim does not sound bright, just flat with MrSpeakers Ether C Flows, balanced.


----------



## slex

Anyone bought a saga to compliment jotunheim. Like to know if its for better or worst?


----------



## Triggaaar

comzee said:


> I personally like the nfb11 $350 over Jot, but that's down to preference, they're both mid-fi sounding.


 
  
 Are both of these amps fairly neutral, or is one warmer or brighter than the other?
 And is either better as a preamp?
  
 I'll be using with HD650, HE400i, and maybe my studio monitors (Mackie HR624), but I might not be able to give up my exposure preamp there.
  
 Thanks


----------



## Jakob Volder

Thanks for your quick response!

 In your opinion, would the Modi 2 Uber do me justice, or is the Modi 2 Multibit an instant upgrade and a great pairing with the Jot?


----------



## Voxata

Ive used Jot/Mimby for my 600/650 and 400i. Its.. amazing. I also make balanced cables with detachable heads (to swap the 400i, 6XX using the same cable) if you're serious about rockin' the Jot.


----------



## godlikegamer

earnmyturns said:


> I have both Jotunheim and Liquid Carbon. I agree with your assessment of the LC, but to me the Jotunheim does not sound bright, just flat with MrSpeakers Ether C Flows, balanced.


 
  At the end u prefer which 1??


----------



## tunes

Anyone compared the Cavelli liquid spark amp vs iFi micro iCan SE with the QP1R yet??


----------



## mwhals

I don't believe the Liquid Spark has been released for sale yet.


----------



## Ancipital

earnmyturns said:


> I have both Jotunheim and Liquid Carbon. I agree with your assessment of the LC, but to me the Jotunheim does not sound bright, just flat with MrSpeakers Ether C Flows, balanced.


 
  
 Reread, I didn't say it was bright. However, it doesn't roll off the treble much, so if your transducers like treble too, you have to be comfortable with that. It's a surprisingly neutral amp- not at all euphonic or rolled-off at either end. A lot of people aren't used to that.


----------



## econaut

Thanks a lot for your elaborate replies!
  
 Since I won't go to any meetings, I will listen to the Elear and other headphones at my local dealer on monday. Then I go on holidays and check back at the dealer in january, except if I buy immediately on monday.
  
 No matter which headphone I choose, I will almost certainly order the Bimby and Jotunheim as soon as they are in stock again in europe. I hope I will like the whole combo, if not I will just start searching again 
  
 I also hope that the jot preouts are not volume controlled and that Bimby and Jot are not gonna get too warm, since there's other stuff going to be stacked upon them.


----------



## righteousfather

Hello head-fi! First poster, audiophile newbie here and first-time Schiit customer. I received my Jotunheim DAC combo today and I've been super stoked since the moment I pulled the trigger to unbox that schiitty-tapered box. However, upon opening, I discovered that my amp was shipped without the DAC module. I'm not bothered as I know holiday business can get hectic and mistakes can be made- but I'd really rather not deal with shipping back and forth and dropping more money into this amp (at least not yet). Would it be realistic to maybe receive a refund on the DAC module?


----------



## Ancipital

econaut said:


> I also hope that the jot preouts are not volume controlled


 
  
 They are. I use them to drive powered nearfields. Works really nicely.


----------



## mattlach

ancipital said:


> They are. I use them to drive powered nearfields. Works really nicely.




Aren't preamp outs always volume controlled? You know, so they behave like a preamp (which had volume control) instead of amp? They certainly have been on every unit I've ever used.

If you don't want the volume control, maybe just use a cable splitter for the input?


----------



## econaut

Thanks for the info. It's not a big deal, just another volume knob for my (passive) big speakers


----------



## Voxata

So many reported getting an incorrect order lately  rest assured though, Schiit will make it right.


----------



## mattlach

voxata said:


> So many reported getting an incorrect order lately
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Odd.   They have always been good with me.
  
 I've placed a total of four orders from Schiit over the years for a total of 5 units, and they've all been accurate.
  
 I have full confidence that if they made a mistake and shipped out the wrong thing, they will make it right.


----------



## Triggaaar

righteousfather said:


> I'd really rather not deal with shipping back and forth and dropping more money into this amp (at least not yet). Would it be realistic to maybe receive a refund on the DAC module?


 
 I'd think that's the least they can do.


----------



## mattlach

righteousfather said:


> Hello head-fi! First poster, audiophile newbie here and first-time Schiit customer. I received my Jotunheim DAC combo today and I've been super stoked since the moment I pulled the trigger to unbox that schiitty-tapered box. However, upon opening, I discovered that my amp was shipped without the DAC module. I'm not bothered as I know holiday business can get hectic and mistakes can be made- but I'd really rather not deal with shipping back and forth and dropping more money into this amp (at least not yet). Would it be realistic to maybe receive a refund on the DAC module?


 
  
 I have found that they are very reasonable and flexible.
  
 Just email them and ask and see what they say!


----------



## Voxata

I don't know.. they'd prepay for return shipping for sure so you're not out $$.


----------



## righteousfather

I just got a reply from their service, I'm fully confident that it will be taken care of. A minor bummer that I'll have to wait for the exchange, but I had a Sound Blaster G5 lying around and used it with my Jotunheim for the time being. I have to say that I can't wait to see what the DAC module can do. A little inconvenience but I'm absolutely blown away by the Jotunheim. The instrument separation is very identifiable and the bass has gotten a lot tighter through my HD650s. The soundstage is more intimate than what I'm used to- it's so much easier to visualize. I can definitely foresee more Schiit gear turning up in my listening setup. Cheers guys!


----------



## Roscoeiii

Why bother posting something like this? Just contact the company and work it out. Maybe let us know if it doesn't work out


----------



## AviP

parttimelovah said:


> any photos of the black jot?


 
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/dekoni-premium-earpads-for-fostex-th-x00/talk/605359
 You're welcome


----------



## CarlosUnchained

Quote:


parttimelovah said:


> any photos of the black jot?



  
 Quote:


avip said:


> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/dekoni-premium-earpads-for-fostex-th-x00/talk/605359
> You're welcome


 
  
 Not that one.


----------



## sarang-i

carlosunchained said:


> Not that one.


 
 Is that nfb-11?
 Would you tell me how is the difference comparing mimby+jot with nfb-11 alone?


----------



## Triggaaar

carlosunchained said:


> Not that one.


 

 Jot vs NFB review please 
  
 There must be loads of us (at least 3 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) choosing between the two,


----------



## CarlosUnchained

triggaaar said:


> Jot vs NFB review please
> 
> There must be loads of us (at least 3
> 
> ...


 
  
 Quote:


sarang-i said:


> Is that nfb-11?
> Would you tell me how is the difference comparing mimby+jot with nfb-11 alone?


 
  
  
 Unfortunately that's not mine. Source:
  
 https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/5i65e3/impressions_agd_nfb11_vs_jotunheim_black_for/


----------



## Tuneslover

righteousfather said:


> Hello head-fi! First poster, audiophile newbie here and first-time Schiit customer. I received my Jotunheim DAC combo today and I've been super stoked since the moment I pulled the trigger to unbox that schiitty-tapered box. However, upon opening, I discovered that my amp was shipped without the DAC module. I'm not bothered as I know holiday business can get hectic and mistakes can be made- but I'd really rather not deal with shipping back and forth and dropping more money into this amp (at least not yet). Would it be realistic to maybe receive a refund on the DAC module?



Gee that's too bad about your order getting messed up. I guess if that happened to me I would keep the amp only Jot and pay the difference and have them ship me a Modi MB. Maybe you could sweet talk them into giving you a discounted price on the Mimby due to their screw up. Especially since Schiit will be saving the cost of your return shipping cost and them re-sending the correct Jot back to you, not to mention the inconvenience of being without your Jot due to all this shipping time.


----------



## sarang-i

Thanks for the info!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 What is said to me is, unless i saw it wrongly, that comparison have not been implemented as nfb-11's line out+jot vs nfb-11 alone, will be the one i wish to see that two objects of a comparison as each having same dac section so as to make a more fairly comparison.


----------



## Tuneslover

splodinjoe said:


> [COLOR=000000]Question for yall'
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Do you have your Jot preamp running to powered speakers? If you do, are the speakers also sounding distorted?


----------



## Tuneslover

Has anyone compared a Jot with the on-board 4490 DS DAC against an external Modi MB connected to the SE input of the Jot?


----------



## mwhals

tuneslover said:


> Has anyone compared a Jot with the on-board 4490 DS DAC against an external Modi MB connected to the SE input of the Jot?




This has been covered in this thread, but most seem to think the Mimby sounds better than the internal DAC card.


----------



## mattlach

carlosunchained said:


> Not that one.


 
  
  
 Nice, looks sharp!
  
 But what is that non-schiit junk underneath it?  
  
 What is the surface texture like of their black coating?  Does it come across as if it might get scratches easily, or is it pretty solid?
  
 I always thought it was too bad that Schiit doesn't also use matched black volume knobs and buttons on their black models.


----------



## Voxata

If only the knob was black too.


----------



## CarlosUnchained

voxata said:


> If only the knob was black too.


 

 You like it black, I like it silver. It's hard to make everybody happy. Still you can paint it if it's that important.


----------



## Alchemist007

carlosunchained said:


> Not that one.
> 
> snip


 
 Impressions vs the Audio-gd?


----------



## CarlosUnchained

alchemist007 said:


> Impressions vs the Audio-gd?


 

 Not mine: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/5i65e3/impressions_agd_nfb11_vs_jotunheim_black_for/


----------



## mattlach

One thing that I find interesting is how much cooler the Jotunheim runs when compared to my first gen Asgard or Lyr 2.
  
 Nowhere near as hot.


----------



## mwhals

I am thinking about the Jotunheim or the Mjolnir 2. Not sure of the sound differences between the two. Has anyone heard both or own both?


----------



## franzdom

mwhals said:


> I am thinking about the Jotunheim or the Mjolnir 2. Not sure of the sound differences between the two. Has anyone heard both or own both?


 


 I am very happy with both, after much tube rolling with MJ2. I still listen to the Jot mostly however. Please see my post about this from a week ago: http://www.head-fi.org/t/818323/schiit-jotunheim-review-preview-head-fi-tv/2805#post_13063042


----------



## bwcgrx

mattlach said:


> One thing that I find interesting is how much cooler the Jotunheim runs when compared to my first gen Asgard or Lyr 2.
> 
> Nowhere near as hot.




I believe that is mostly due to Jotunheim operating in Class A/B. It is by design topology a more efficient amp than an Class A amp like the Asgard.

I'll save the A vs A/B debate to others here on Head-fi.


----------



## KG Jag

mwhals said:


> I am thinking about the Jotunheim or the Mjolnir 2. Not sure of the sound differences between the two. Has anyone heard both or own both?


 
  
 I'd go with or Jot or move up to the Auralic Taurus MKII, which can currently be had for $1,329 (see the Deals Discussion thread).


----------



## SirRealist

For those of you concerned about leaving the amp on 24/7, I had this exchange with Schiit tech support (I had previously asked him about the 24hr power draw from the Mimby):
  
 Me: 'I'm also considering ordering the Jotunheim and I also saw that it should be left on. Could you estimate how many kWh it would pull in 24hrs if idle?"
Schiit: "About 0.6-0.7kWh (about 3x that of the Modi)"
  
EDIT: For clarity, I had also specified idle as having the volume knob all the down


----------



## mattlach

sirrealist said:


> For those of you concerned about leaving the amp on 24/7, I had this exchange with Schiit tech support (I had previously asked him about the 24hr power draw from the Mimby):
> 
> Me: 'I'm also considering ordering the Jotunheim and I also saw that it should be left on. Could you estimate how many kWh it would pull in 24hrs if idle?"
> Schiit: "About 0.6-0.7kWh (about 3x that of the Modi)"
> ...


 
  
 Why on earth would you leave it on?
  
 That type of advice is questionable even when it comes to tube amps, which need time to warm up before sounding their best  (but 5 minutes is usually enough, unless its REALLY cold)
  
 A solid state amp should have none of those issues...
  
 Randomly I accidentally left my Jotunheim on all night last night, but I usually shut it off every night.   It sounds the same to me today as it usually does


----------



## MWSVette

mattlach said:


> Why on earth would you leave it on?
> 
> That type of advice is questionable even when it comes to tube amps, which need time to warm up before sounding their best  (but 5 minutes is usually enough, unless its REALLY cold)
> 
> ...


 
 Yes with tubes that would be a bad idea since tubes have a finite life.   Leaving the power on will use up valuable tube life whether a signal is going through the amp or not.  With solid state other than wasting electricity leaving the unit on will not hurt a thing.


----------



## mattlach

mwsvette said:


> Yes with tubes that would be a bad idea since tubes have a finite life.   Leaving the power on will use up valuable tube life whether a signal is going through the amp or not.  With solid state other than wasting electricity leaving the unit on will not hurt a thing.


 
  
 Agreed.  It won't hurt, but I also don't see what the benefit would be, other than the laziness factor of not having to reach for the switch.
  
 My comment about Tubes was just based on those weirdos who claim that there are very finite times you have to listen to tubes after they warm up.  You know, "the peak hits after about 3 hours, shorter than 90 minutes of warmup and they sound like utter trash", type of nonsense.


----------



## MWSVette

mattlach said:


> Agreed.  It won't hurt, but I also don't see what the benefit would be, other than the laziness factor of not having to reach for the switch.
> 
> My comment about Tubes was just based on those weirdos who claim that there are very finite times you have to listen to tubes after they warm up.  You know, "the peak hits after about 3 hours, shorter than 90 minutes of warmup and they sound like utter trash", type of nonsense.


 
 I agree no benefit.
  
 And yes one does not want to waste tube life they are too expensive.  A few minutes of warm up are more than enough. However that said, turning on and off a tube amp over a short period also reduces tube life.


----------



## watchnerd

kg jag said:


> I'd go with or Jot or move up to the Auralic Taurus MKII, which can currently be had for $1,329 (see the Deals Discussion thread).


 
  
 The Auralic certainly costs more.  
  
 But based on the power output specs, I wouldn't call it a "move up".


----------



## KG Jag

watchnerd said:


> kg jag said:
> 
> 
> > I'd go with or Jot or move up to the Auralic Taurus MKII, which can currently be had for $1,329 (see the Deals Discussion thread).
> ...


 

 One listening session should.  It certainly did for me.  See:
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/spectacularly-transparent-auralic-taurus-mkii#7yVWckpMlZ9Kfvw0.97


----------



## watchnerd

kg jag said:


> One listening session should.  It certainly did for me.  See:
> 
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/spectacularly-transparent-auralic-taurus-mkii#7yVWckpMlZ9Kfvw0.97


 
  
 Sorry, but I can never get past the inherent conflict of interest that commercial reviewers have.


----------



## Alchemist007

mwsvette said:


> I agree no benefit.
> 
> And yes one does not want to waste tube life they are too expensive.  A few minutes of warm up are more than enough. However that said, turning on and off a tube amp over a short period also reduces tube life.


 

 Hadn't heard that before. What's the ideal session warm up and turn off?


----------



## Ancipital

alchemist007 said:


> Hadn't heard that before. What's the ideal session warm up and turn off?


 
  
 The last amp designer that I spoke to just suggested turning the amp on at the start of the listening day, and off at the end- and that turning them on and off too much was more of an issue than leaving them on for an extra hour or two in the day.
  
 Most properly implemented amps with suitable tubes will be fully up to speed after ten minutes- and that's being generous/cautious. The emmissivity graph probably flattens off long before that.


----------



## mwhals

kg jag said:


> I'd go with or Jot or move up to the Auralic Taurus MKII, which can currently be had for $1,329 (see the Deals Discussion thread).




Thanks, but two strikes against the Auralic:

1. I prefer to buy USA where I can still get quality and Amps is one of those things.

2. There is a huge price difference between a Mjolnir 2 and the Auralic.

As a result, my question was never answered regarding sound difference between the Jotunheim and Mjolnir 2.

For reference, my headphones is a ZMF Ori with the ZMF Atticus and Eikon coming around February.


----------



## watchnerd

mwhals said:


> As a result, my question was never answered regarding sound difference between the Jotunheim and Mjolnir 2.


 
  
 Do you want to play with tubes?
  
 That's the best reason to go with an MJ2 vs the Jotunheim, since they both have balanced connections and put out insane amounts of power.
  
 I enjoy tube rolling with the MJ2.


----------



## Ancipital

watchnerd said:


> Do you want to play with tubes?
> 
> That's the best reason to go with an MJ2 vs the Jotunheim, since they both have balanced connections and put out insane amounts of power.
> 
> I enjoy tube rolling with the MJ2.


 
  
 Also, the MJ2's SE output is somewhat poor compared to its balanced out, so if you have cans that you can't easily rewire for balanced, it's worth having a second amp to hand.


----------



## Vigrith

ancipital said:


> Also, the MJ2's SE output is somewhat poor compared to its balanced out, so if you have cans that you can't easily rewire for balanced, it's worth having a second amp to hand.


 
  
 As an owner of both aforementioned amplifiers I can confirm the SE output on the MJ2 is pretty balls compared to the one on the Jotun. Won't really comment on sound signature, I don't really analyse anything I just listen to music and have a good time - when used balanced and with LISST on the MJ2 (which never happens for me) they sound very similar, probably say the Jotun actually sounds more pleasant even.
  
 Tubes are a different thing entirely and as has been said, if you wanna play around with tubes then the choice is obvious. The Jotunheim is a Swiss army knife, the Mjolnir is a chameleon.


----------



## watchnerd

ancipital said:


> Also, the MJ2's SE output is somewhat poor compared to its balanced out, so if you have cans that you can't easily rewire for balanced, it's worth having a second amp to hand.


 
  
 I don't agree at all with the statement that the MJ2 SE output is "somewhat poor".
  
 I have both XLR and TRS cabled cans and the MJ2 sounds good on both.  The XLR adds a little better channel separation and more power. But the basic sonic character is the same, and good on both.


----------



## Ancipital

watchnerd said:


> I don't agree at all with the statement that the MJ2 SE output is "somewhat poor".
> 
> I have both XLR and TRS cabled cans and the MJ2 sounds good on both.  The XLR adds a little better channel separation and more power. But the basic sonic character is the same, and good on both.


 
  
 It really isn't. The disappointing SE output is the only weak spot of an otherwise decent amp. What you asserted holds for the Jotunheim, on the other hand.


----------



## mattlach

ancipital said:


> The last amp designer that I spoke to just suggested turning the amp on at the start of the listening day, and off at the end- and that turning them on and off too much was more of an issue than leaving them on for an extra hour or two in the day.
> 
> Most properly implemented amps with suitable tubes will be fully up to speed after ten minutes- and that's being generous/cautious. The emmissivity graph probably flattens off long before that.





I can't imagine this makes much of a difference.

Things that usually fail with repetitive use are mechanical parts. The only mechanical parts in a solid state amp are going to be the power switch and the pot for the volume knob.

The rest is just electrical components that don't really wear.

Unless they used bad switches for the product, I can't imagine turning it on when you need it and off when you don't would do anything at all to shorten the life of an amp (or a DAC for that matter)


----------



## franzdom

mattlach said:


> I can't imagine this makes much of a difference.
> 
> Things that usually fail with repetitive use are mechanical parts. The only mechanical parts in a solid state amp are going to be the power switch and the pot for the volume knob.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The discussion wasn't about solid state amps.


----------



## KG Jag

mwhals said:


> kg jag said:
> 
> 
> > I'd go with or Jot or move up to the Auralic Taurus MKII, which can currently be had for $1,329 (see the Deals Discussion thread).
> ...


 
  
 Sorry that you did not discern the inference.  Based on owning the Jot & Mjolnir (M)1 and spending some ear time with the M2 in various configurations, the small difference between the M2 and Jot is not worth the price spread--unless you are seduced with the special options offered by the M2


----------



## JLoud

You have to worry about heat cycles. Every time the components heat and cool it decreases life span.  I base this on 20 plus years experience with robotics and associated electronics that control them.  We leave our robot controllers on 24/7.  And they cost 25-30 thousand each.  Longer life span when left on than cycled.


----------



## mattlach

jloud said:


> You have to worry about heat cycles. Every time the components heat and cool it decreases life span.  I base this on 20 plus years experience with robotics and associated electronics that control them.  We leave our robot controllers on 24/7.  And they cost 25-30 thousand each.  Longer life span when left on than cycled.




Well yeah, if you have very high temperatures the temperature cycles can over time harm the solder joints due to thermal expansion and contraction, unless you use special purpose high heat solder, but you really need to get up there for that.

Nvidia had this issue with their video cards a few years back. Temperature cycling caused premature failure of some of those chips because they selected the wrong solder, but they were dealing with temperature fluctuations up to 100c.

With typical amp temperatures this ought to be much less of a concern, if any at all unless you are dealing with large class A speaker power amps. Even so, I'd imagine that a designer of a high end amp like that would know to use the right solder.


----------



## JLoud

mattlach said:


> jloud said:
> 
> 
> > You have to worry about heat cycles. Every time the components heat and cool it decreases life span.  I base this on 20 plus years experience with robotics and associated electronics that control them.  We leave our robot controllers on 24/7.  And they cost 25-30 thousand each.  Longer life span when left on than cycled.
> ...


 
If a transistor, for example, operates at the same continual temperature, it actually will run reliably for many years. Continual heating and cooling of parts causes micro cracks due to uneven thermal expansion of different materials within the device. Just about any part is susceptible to failure from large number of temperature cycles. Of course how many cycles this will take to cause failure is probably high.  I guess if I used the amp once a day I would turn it off, if I used it several times a day, I would leave it on.  Don't think it is anything worth losing sleep over either way.


----------



## watchnerd

jloud said:


> If a transistor, for example, operates at the same continual temperature, it actually will run reliably for many years. Continual heating and cooling of parts causes micro cracks due to uneven thermal expansion of different materials within the device. Just about any part is susceptible to failure from large number of temperature cycles. Of course how many cycles this will take to cause failure is probably high.  I guess if I used the amp once a day I would turn it off, if I used it several times a day, I would leave it on.  Don't think it is anything worth losing sleep over either way.


 
  
 I leave all my audio electronics (Schiit or otherwise) on 24/7.
  
 The electrical bill doesn't notice much.


----------



## mattlach

watchnerd said:


> I leave all my audio electronics (Schiit or otherwise) on 24/7.
> 
> The electrical bill doesn't notice much.


 
  
 I already have a 300W server running 24/7 in the basement, and live in one of the U.S. states with the highest electricity costs, so I prefer to keep everything else as reasonable as possible.
  
 There isn't an incandescent bulb in this house.    Most are LED, but I still have some older CFL's.
  
 Everything else (HTPC's and PC's) have strict "sleep mode" timers, and the things that don't easily automatically shut off  (like amps and dac's) I try to shut off when they are not in use for more than 30 minutes to an hour.
  
 I am considering picking up one of these relays and running a power line from inside the PC to it, to shut off everything at my desk (screens, amps DAC's, etc.) automatically whenever the computer is not on:


----------



## watchnerd

mattlach said:


> I already have a 300W server running 24/7 in the basement, and live in one of the U.S. states with the highest electricity costs, so I prefer to keep everything else as reasonable as possible.
> 
> There isn't an incandescent bulb in this house.    Most are LED, but I still have some older CFL's.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I you want to be maximally energy efficient, don't buy class A amps, period.


----------



## mattlach

watchnerd said:


> I you want to be maximally energy efficient, don't buy class A amps, period.


 
  
 That's not my philosophy at all.
  
 I buy for maximum performance (out of what I am willing to spend) and then I figure out how to manage power after the fact.   
  
 I save power where it has no negative impacts to me, and spend it freely elsewhere.
  
 For instance, light bulbs.   LED bulbs are no worse to me than incandescent, so that's a great place to save


----------



## CarlosUnchained

mattlach said:


> That's not my philosophy at all.
> 
> I buy for maximum performance (out of what I am willing to spend) and then I figure out how to manage power after the fact.
> 
> ...


 

 Solar and wind powered amps is my philosophy.      /s


----------



## Voxata

Second, to avoid lots of cycles I leave all my Schiit gear on 24/7. It's ready to go, always.


----------



## Ancipital

mattlach said:


> I can't imagine this makes much of a difference.
> 
> Things that usually fail with repetitive use are mechanical parts. The only mechanical parts in a solid state amp are going to be the power switch and the pot for the volume knob.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Uh, people were talking about tube life. You appear to be having a semi-imaginary conversation now


----------



## mattlach

ancipital said:


> Uh, people were talking about tube life. You appear to be having a semi-imaginary conversation now


 
  
 We were talking about both tubes and solid state, if you follow the chain of replies back far enough.   I know it can get confusing in a big thread like this


----------



## mattlach

Is it just me, or is the Jotunheim a little weak on bass?
  
 I'm no bass-head, but coming from an Asgard (first gen) to a Lyr 2 and now to a Jotunheim, I feel like the bass is less present.
  
 Maybe those 1975 Voskhod grey shield tubes were "darker" than I thought, and I got used to them...


----------



## Ancipital

mattlach said:


> Is it just me, or is the Jotunheim a little weak on bass?
> 
> I'm no bass-head, but coming from an Asgard (first gen) to a Lyr 2 and now to a Jotunheim, I feel like the bass is less present.
> 
> Maybe those 1975 Voskhod grey shield tubes were "darker" than I thought, and I got used to them...


 
  
 I think you just answered your own question quite neatly 
  
 The Jot is a fairly neutral SS amp, with reasonable extension. FR-wise, you get out pretty much what you put in- you don't get many surprises or fireworks (which is possibly both a good and bad thing, depending on your prejudices).


----------



## Duan

In case a missed in in a earlier thread has anyone experienced the Jot compared to the Audio-gd NFB-1Amp or C2 11th anniversary especially with one of schiit multibit units? 
Really interested in that comparison..


----------



## Triggaaar

duan said:


> In case a missed in in a earlier thread has anyone experienced the Jot compared to the Audio-gd NFB-1Amp or C2 11th anniversary especially with one of schiit multibit units?
> Really interested in that comparison..


 

 +1


----------



## slex

I own both C211th and jot, now the C211th has become my preamp for jot and Nad3020.

Jot has a cleaner output. Using C211th for its 100 steps digitally controlled relay-based volume control to avoids channel imbalance and improves sound quality and more inputs and outpus.


----------



## Triggaaar

slex said:


> I own both C211th and jot, now the C211th has become my preamp for jot and Nad3020.
> 
> Jot has a cleaner output. Using C211th for its 100 steps digitally controlled relay-based volume control to avoids channel imbalance and improves sound quality and more inputs and outpus.


 

 You're the man (or lady) we need to hear from!
  
 Most of us mere mortals can't have both   With that in mind, could you tell us how you think they compare simply as a headphone amp (with input from a separate DAC)
 and also as a preamp?
  
 Many thanks


----------



## watchnerd

slex said:


> I own both C211th and jot, now the C211th has become my preamp for jot and Nad3020.
> 
> Jot has a cleaner output. Using C211th for its 100 steps digitally controlled relay-based volume control to avoids channel imbalance and improves sound quality and more inputs and outpus.


 
  
 This makes little sense to me.
  
 An integrated amp like the NAD 3020 doesn't need a preamp.  By complicating the signal chain like this, stacking volume controls, you're just introducing more potential noise into the system.


----------



## slex

watchnerd said:


> This makes little sense to me.
> 
> An integrated amp like the NAD 3020 doesn't need a preamp.  By complicating the signal chain like this, stacking volume controls, you're just introducing more potential noise into the system.




Have to, both jot and nad are sharing the modiMB dac.
Beside having strong and clear output is the balance out of Jot, it drive my newly aquire ZMF Vibro MKll purpleheart with aplomb.


----------



## slex

triggaaar said:


> You're the man (or lady) we need to hear from!
> 
> Most of us mere mortals can't have both   With that in mind, could you tell us how you think they compare simply as a headphone amp (with input from a separate DAC)
> and also as a preamp?
> ...




Think using the jot with high ohm hp is a plus not counting balance output.

I still prefer my low ohm hp from C2 with my HE400S.


----------



## watchnerd

slex said:


> Have to, both jot and nad are sharing the modiMB dac.
> Beside having strong and clear output is the balance out of Jot, it drive my newly aquire ZMF Vibro MKll purpleheart with aplomb.


 
  
 No, you don't have to.  You can use a Y-cable splitter from the Modi-MB outputs to feed them both without volume stacking them.  Or get a Sys to switch them. It will be a much simpler, cleaner, less noisy circuit.


----------



## slex

watchnerd said:


> No, you don't have to.  You can use a Y-cable splitter from the Modi-MB outputs to feed them both without volume stacking them.  It will be a much simpler, cleaner, less noisy circuit.



Haha,no can do, i hate splitting!


----------



## watchnerd

slex said:


> Haha,no can do, i hate splitting!


 
  
 Then get a Sys.
  
 Seriously, stacking two gain stages unnecessarily is doing it wrong.


----------



## slex

watchnerd said:


> Then get a Sys.
> 
> Seriously, stacking two gain stages unnecessarily is doing it wrong.



Wanting to try saga instead.


----------



## watchnerd

slex said:


> Wanting to try saga instead.


 
  
 To replace the NAD?


----------



## slex

watchnerd said:


> To replace the NAD?



Nope, nad is here to stay. Its driving a pair of old infinity bookself spks beside using for headphone out option.


----------



## Ancipital

watchnerd said:


> Then get a Sys.
> 
> Seriously, stacking two gain stages unnecessarily is doing it wrong.


 
  
 Funny, @atomicbob does it all the time to run a Vali 2 from the pre-outs of a Jotunheim, and he has the ability to accurately measure the impact it has far beyond both audibility and consumer gear limits.


----------



## watchnerd

ancipital said:


> Funny, @atomicbob does it all the time, and he has the ability to accurately measure the impact it has far beyond both audibility and consumer gear limits.


 
  
 That doesn't make it a good idea.
  
 For those that don't know, a little refresher:
  
 1. Active amplification circuits add noise
 2. Passive circuits are more pure if you can get away with them -- that's why the Saga and Freya have passive options


----------



## slex

"
The job of a preamplifier is to turn a low-voltage, high-impedance signal susceptible to signal degradation, into a higher-voltage, low-impedance signal. This process is often referred to as adding gain, and preamplifier specifications often refer to how much gain the preamp provides without introducing audible noise. The output of the preamplifier can then be safely sent along to a power amplifier that will raise the current to levels that can drive speakers."

I just max the volume on the jot and let C2 control it.


----------



## watchnerd

slex said:


> "
> The job of a preamplifier is to turn a low-voltage, high-impedance signal susceptible to signal degradation, into a higher-voltage, low-impedance signal. This process is often referred to as adding gain, and preamplifier specifications often refer to how much gain the preamp provides without introducing audible noise. The output of the preamplifier can then be safely sent along to a power amplifier that will raise the current to levels that can drive speakers."


 
  
 That paragraph is referring to voltages below line-level, like a tape deck.
  
 If the device is already putting out line level voltage (2V), which the Modi 2 does, you don't need to amplify it if the cables are short.
  
 You need the opposite, you need to attenuate it.
  
 Why do you think Schiit included a passive option on the Saga and Freya?  It's so you can use their DACs (or others) in pass-through mode.


----------



## slex

watchnerd said:


> That paragraph is referring to voltages below line-level, like a tape deck.
> 
> If the device is already putting out line level voltage (2V), which the Modi 2 does, you don't need to amplify it if the cables are short.
> 
> ...



Funny, i just need more pre outs. Dun intend to bother signal integrity. Its just doing fine at the moment.

Btw, do you know of any dedicated headphone power amp only?


----------



## watchnerd

slex said:


> Btw, do you know of any dedicated headphone power amp only?


 
  
 I don't know of any such product.
  
 Maybe that's the next big thing.


----------



## theveterans

watchnerd said:


> That doesn't make it a good idea.
> 
> For those that don't know, a little refresher:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Saga's Tube  active stage has a gain of 1 (same as passive). I believe gain is what increases noise floor and that's why I don't like headphone amp/preamp combo unless the preamp stage is completely isolated from the headphone amp stage or that the headphone amp has a 0db gain selection from the preamp mode. The difference aside from the Saga's tube stage and Saga's passive is the 10V amplification without increasing noise floor whatsoever (since the overall gain is unity).


----------



## theveterans

watchnerd said:


> I don't know of any such product.
> 
> Maybe that's the next big thing.


 
  
 Electrostat power amp?


----------



## slex

watchnerd said:


> I don't know of any such product.
> 
> Maybe that's the next big thing.



Ok schiit if hearing this, go make one dedicated power amp for hp.


----------



## watchnerd

theveterans said:


> Saga's Tube  active stage has a gain of 1 (same as passive). I believe gain is what increases noise floor and that's why I don't like headphone amp/preamp combo unless the preamp stage is completely isolated from the headphone amp stage or that the headphone amp has a 0db gain selection from the preamp mode. The difference aside from the Saga's tube stage and Saga's passive is the 10V amplification without increasing noise floor whatsoever (since the overall gain is unity).


 
  
 Gain does increase the noise floor. But there is also no such thing as a noise-free tube or transistor.  It may be a very quiet tube buffer, but the it won't be as quiet as a purely passive circuit.


----------



## theveterans

watchnerd said:


> Gain does increase the noise floor. But there is also no such thing as a noise-free tube or transistor.  It may be a very quiet tube buffer, but the it won't be as quiet as a purely passive circuit.


 
  
 True, but the Saga that I have with 1961 RCA 6SN7GTB has ZERO hissing issues even at max volume with the Yamaha HS7 speakers. The stock russian equivalent tubes does not make any audible noise floor as well.


----------



## slex

Not to mention finding the right signal cables for your preference.


----------



## slex

theveterans said:


> True, but the Saga that I have with 1961 RCA 6SN7GTB has ZERO hissing issues even at max volume with the Yamaha HS7 speakers. The stock russian equivalent tubes does not make any audible noise floor as well.



Are you using saga with jot, if so i like to hear your views?


----------



## theveterans

slex said:


> Are you using saga with jot, if so i like to hear your views?


 
  
 I don't use the Saga with Jotunheim unfortunately as I've moved to 2-channel listening exclusively.


----------



## watchnerd

theveterans said:


> True, but the Saga that I have with 1961 RCA 6SN7GTB has ZERO hissing issues even at max volume with the Yamaha HS7 speakers. The stock russian equivalent tubes does not make any audible noise floor as well.


 
  
 Cool. But hiss is just one kind of distortion. Active circuits of any kind (tubes or transistors) add IMD & THD, too.  Which is why you want as few as possible and why you don't want to stack them...because you end up amplifying the upstream noise and distortion.


----------



## slex

theveterans said:


> I don't use the Saga with Jotunheim unfortunately as I've moved to 2-channel listening exclusively.



Ok thanks anyway. Was wondering if using saga+jot is on par with mjonir2.its $100 cheaper with that combo.


----------



## watchnerd

slex said:


> Ok thanks anyway. Was wondering if using saga+jot is on par with mjonir2.its $100 cheaper with that combo.


 
  
 It might be $100 cheaper, but you're not getting a fully-balanced chain like you do with MJ2.


----------



## jimmers

watchnerd said:


> It might be $100 cheaper, but you're not getting a fully-balanced chain like you do with MJ2.


 
 ... and if you don't have a balanced DAC ...?


----------



## theveterans

watchnerd said:


> Cool. But hiss is just one kind of distortion. Active circuits of any kind (tubes or transistors) add IMD & THD, too.  Which is why you want as few as possible and why you don't want to stack them...because you end up amplifying the upstream noise and distortion.


 
  
 True as well. There's always a decrease in transparency when amplifying higher than DAC's output voltage, but IMO Schiit's dedicated active preamp like the Saga and Freya comes closer to absolute transparency compared to Schiit's headphone amp line up when used as preamps. Sys, Saga and Freya's passive mode should give the best transparency, but at the cost of much less volume output which unfortunately is too quiet with the Yamaha HS7. I listen to around 2 o'clock with Saga and at 3:30 o'clock when watching Blu-ray/DVDs in active mode.


----------



## watchnerd

jimmers said:


> ... and if you don't have a balanced DAC ...?


 
  
 The built-in Jotunheim DAC is balanced.


----------



## watchnerd

theveterans said:


> but IMO Schiit's dedicated active preamp like the Saga and Freya comes closer to absolute transparency compared to Schiit's headphone amp line up when used as preamps.


 
  
 You're probably right, just based on topologies, but nobody has heard a Freya yet, so who knows?
  
 When I get a Freya I might do a shootout vs the MJ2 as an active monitor preamp just for schiits and giggles.


----------



## slex

Thats a





watchnerd said:


> It might be $100 cheaper, but you're not getting a fully-balanced chain like you do with MJ2.



That's another story


----------



## Duan

slex said:


> I own both C211th and jot, now the C211th has become my preamp for jot and Nad3020.
> 
> Jot has a cleaner output. Using C211th for its 100 steps digitally controlled relay-based volume control to avoids channel imbalance and improves sound quality and more inputs and outpus.


So if you had the choice to choose between the Jot and the C211th for driving headphones you would choose the Jot because it provides better sound quality?


----------



## slex

duan said:


> So if you had the choice to choose between the Jot and the C211th for driving headphones you would choose the Jot because it provides better sound quality?



Both are equally capable, one is single ended and the other is a balance amp.like i mentioned, i only use jot with high impedance hp with balance out and is doing a great job.


----------



## inanevoyage

Theoretical question:

 Is there a sonic difference at the same volume, between using the balanced output with low gain and a higher volume, or the balanced output with high gain and the volume knob turned lower?


----------



## MWSVette

inanevoyage said:


> Theoretical question:
> 
> Is there a sonic difference at the same volume, between using the balanced output with low gain and a higher volume, or the balanced output with high gain and the volume knob turned lower?


 
 No, not at the same SPL...


----------



## watchnerd

jimmers said:


> ... and if you don't have a balanced DAC ...?


 
  


watchnerd said:


> The built-in Jotunheim DAC is balanced.


 
  
 I going to amend this:
  
 The Jotunheim balanced DAC set up is not exactly equivalent to what you get in the Gungnir or Yggy.
  
 The Gungnir (whether DS or MB) and Yggy use full hardware balancing, with 2 DAC chips per channel, for a total of 4 DAC chips (left +, left -, right +, right -).
  
The Jotunheim uses only 2 DAC chips, 1 per channel.  I'm guessing this is in conjunction with a phase splitter.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

watchnerd said:


> I going to amend this:
> 
> The Jotunheim balanced DAC set up is not exactly equivalent to what you get in the Gungnir or Yggy.
> 
> ...


 

 But they are 2-channel DACs, so there you go. Still four phases.


----------



## watchnerd

jason stoddard said:


> But they are 2-channel DACs, so there you go. Still four phases.


 
  
 Indeed.  So a correction to what I wrote earlier...
  
 "The Gungnir (whether DS or MB) and Yggy".
  
 ...making the Jotunheim the same configuration as the Gungnir DS.


----------



## Aeromarine

i wonder how it compare to schiit asguard2 and bifrost stack, ifi idsd, and ifi idsd-bl, jds element, resonessence concero hp?!
  
 quality?
 sound?
 feature?
 bang for your buck?
  
 mostly using with computer music


----------



## Voxata

Lol @Aeromarine UHM.. I know Mimby+Jot is a good deal better than the Asgard/Bifrost 4490 stack. It is a LOT better than the iDSD, so I'd guess better than the black label version too. The rest I don't know. I don't think I'll upgrade from here for a long time. Beware though, the Jot can fatigue with bright headphones. I had to EQ the treble a little on my 400i.


----------



## Aeromarine

voxata said:


> Lol @Aeromarine UHM.. I know Mimby+Jot is a good deal better than the Asgard/Bifrost 4490 stack. It is a LOT better than the iDSD, so I'd guess better than the black label version too. The rest I don't know. I don't think I'll upgrade from here for a long time. Beware though, the Jot can fatigue with bright headphones. I had to EQ the treble a little on my 400i.


 

 oh... thanks for the advice! will take note on that.


----------



## watchnerd

aeromarine said:


> i wonder how it compare to schiit asguard2 and bifrost stack, ifi idsd, and ifi idsd-bl, jds element, resonessence concero hp?!
> 
> quality?
> sound?
> ...


 
  
 All those non-Schiit products are ugly and cheap to look at.
  
 Schiit products look way cooler and people who don't know better will think you paid twice as much.


----------



## watchnerd

voxata said:


> Jot can fatigue with bright headphones can fatigue with any neutral-sounding amp


 
  
 Here, fixed that for you.


----------



## Voxata

The HD600 was rough on the Jot, also the 400i


----------



## Aeromarine

voxata said:


> The HD600 was rough on the Jot, also the 400i


 

 got it! thank you so much!


----------



## theveterans

watchnerd said:


> All those non-Schiit products are ugly and cheap to look at.
> 
> Schiit products look way cooler and people who don't know better will think you paid twice as much.


 
  
 It's subjective IMO. I do like the minimalistic look of Schiit. I also like the glowing power meter of McIntosh as well though McIntosh is of course many times more expensive.


----------



## Aeromarine

theveterans said:


> It's subjective IMO. I do like the minimalistic look of Schiit. I also like the glowing power meter of McIntosh as well though McIntosh is of course many times more expensive.


 

 agree with you, McIntosh is on my list for one of these days


----------



## Voxata

aeromarine said:


> got it! thank you so much!




Note that a mild treble EQd 400i is the best I've ever heard using the Jot and tolerable for ages  also, to those who dislike the white light back bleed just remove the knob and knob nut, slide off the housing and use something like liquid electrical tape to cover the back of the power LED. Now I've just the soft amber glow from inside my Jot casing.


----------



## Aeromarine

voxata said:


> Note that a mild treble EQd 400i is the best I've ever heard using the Jot and tolerable for ages
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 what source do you play through Jot? did you get DAC or PONO version?


----------



## Aeromarine

voxata said:


> Note that a mild treble EQd 400i is the best I've ever heard using the Jot and tolerable for ages
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 what source do you play through Jot? did you get DAC or PONO version? because you stack with Mimby.. just wondering if Jot combo better or not....


----------



## Voxata

Mimby, I have no addition to my Jot. The combo is incredible, sold off all my other stuff.


----------



## slex

voxata said:


> Lol @Aeromarine UHM.. I know Mimby+Jot is a good deal better than the Asgard/Bifrost 4490 stack. It is a LOT better than the iDSD, so I'd guess better than the black label version too. The rest I don't know. I don't think I'll upgrade from here for a long time. Beware though, the Jot can fatigue with bright headphones. I had to EQ the treble a little on my 400i.




You are on spot with bright headphones on jot, tried my HD700 on it ( single ended ). Too analytical but suit warm hp well.


----------



## godlikegamer

slex said:


> You are on spot with bright headphones on jot, tried my HD700 on it ( single ended ). Too analytical but suit warm hp well.


 
  
 so you dont recommend pairing with hd700??


----------



## slex

godlikegamer said:


> so you dont recommend pairing with hd700??



No, but dunno your tolerance on high frequency but you might like it on classical music.


----------



## mattlach

theveterans said:


> McIntosh is of course many times more expensive.




Why does that always seem to be the case with brands with names that sound like that


----------



## Razor1991

For DT770 80ohm and HD650, should I go with the Jot or NFB-11?


----------



## Ancipital

godlikegamer said:


> so you dont recommend pairing with hd700??


 
  
 The HD700 is notoriously harsh and piecing. This is a Delta/Sigma DAC through a small solid state amp that isn't tuned to roll anything off much. The combination will be extremely unpleasant for almost everyone.


----------



## godlikegamer

ancipital said:


> The HD700 is notoriously harsh and piecing. This is a Delta/Sigma DAC through a small solid state amp that isn't tuned to roll anything off much. The combination will be extremely unpleasant for almost everyone.


 
 any small balanced amp/dac that you recommend for hd700??


----------



## Triggaaar

razor1991 said:


> For DT770 80ohm and HD650, should I go with the Jot or NFB-11?


 

 Instead of answering your question, how about I give you more questions 
  
 Will you be using balanced output or single ended?
 And will you have a separate DAC, or want a built in DAC?


----------



## Razor1991

triggaaar said:


> Instead of answering your question, how about I give you more questions
> 
> Will you be using balanced output or single ended?
> And will you have a separate DAC, or want a built in DAC?


 
 - I will use the single ended cable for now (maybe in the future I will buy a balance cord - not sure).
 -  I want the Jot or the NFB-11 for the combination of AMP+DAC


----------



## Triggaaar

razor1991 said:


> - I will use the single ended cable for now (maybe in the future I will buy a balance cord - not sure).
> -  I want the Jot or the NFB-11 for the combination of AMP+DAC


 

 Well firstly, I've heard neither - but I have read a lot 
  
 If you want balanced, the Jot is your only choice.
 The DAC is the weak part of the Jot - if you want Amp and DAC, every comparison I've seen suggests the NFB-11 is the better choice.


----------



## jmc15john

Got my Jotunheim on Friday afternoon.  Had it shipped to the office though so I didn't get to plug it in until this morning.  Sounds great so far, but I haven't really had much time to listen.  Just ordered a male XLR jack I'm going to solder onto my stock LCD-2 cables to make then balanced.  I really like the black, it matches everything else on my desk.


----------



## Ancipital

jmc15john said:


> I really like the black, it matches everything else on my desk.


 
  
 I love the black, it makes the knob look huge! *swoon*


----------



## Triggaaar

ancipital said:


> I love the black, it makes the knob look huge! *swoon*


 

 The wide angle might have something to do with it


----------



## Razor1991

triggaaar said:


> Well firstly, I've heard neither - but I have read a lot
> 
> If you want balanced, the Jot is your only choice.
> The DAC is the weak part of the Jot - if you want Amp and DAC, every comparison I've seen suggests the NFB-11 is the better choice.


 
 I don't care about the balance input for now


----------



## mattlach

razor1991 said:


> For DT770 80ohm and HD650, should I go with the Jot or NFB-11?




The truth is, no one can tell you what will sound best to you.

That being said, I have the DT770 Pro's and a set of HD6xx's (the Massdrop hd650 version) and I recently went with a Jotunheim and am very happy with it.

The Jotunheim is a bloody amazing amp for it price. I don't have the DAC in mine though as I already had a Modi Multibit.

I don't understand why everyone seems so obsessed about having everything in the same box, when mixing and matching and getting the best of both worlds is so much better.

The Modi Multibit ---single ended---> Jotunheim sounds great on my DT770's and on my HD650's connected both via single ended TRS and balanced XLR.

I think it is a fantastic combo, but I have never heard an NFB product, so I can't make a direct comparison.

What I can say though, is the Modi Multibit at $249 costs only $150 more than the built in DAC and absolutely blows away any other DAC at its price, or even double it's price. Yes. It's that good.


----------



## Voxata

I've used 650 and 770 balanced on Jot, very nice sounding.


----------



## franzdom

jmc15john said:


> Got my Jotunheim on Friday afternoon.  Had it shipped to the office though so I didn't get to plug it in until this morning.  Sounds great so far, but I haven't really had much time to listen.  Just ordered a male XLR jack I'm going to solder onto my stock LCD-2 cables to make then balanced.  I really like the black, it matches everything else on my desk.


 
  
  
 That looks really really good!


----------



## watchnerd

triggaaar said:


> Well firstly, I've heard neither - but I have read a lot
> 
> If you want balanced, the Jot is your only choice.
> The DAC is the weak part of the Jot - if you want Amp and DAC, every comparison I've seen suggests the NFB-11 is the better choice.


 
  
 I would highly question the assertion that the DAC is the weak part of the Jot.
  
 It's the same chipset as in the Bifrost, but running in balanced configuration.  And the analog section of the Jotunheim is superior to the analog section of any of the standalone Schiit DACs below the Gungnir.
  
 The only thing it's lacking is a multitude of input choices.


----------



## MWSVette

watchnerd said:


> I would highly question the assertion that the DAC is the weak part of the Jot.
> 
> It's the same chipset as in the Bifrost, but running in balanced configuration.  And the analog section of the Jotunheim is superior to the analog section of any of the standalone Schiit DACs below the Gungnir.
> 
> The only thing it's lacking is a multitude of input choices.


 
  
 I agree 100% with this.
  
 Where else can you get a fully balanced DAC using 2 AK4490 chips for $100.00????


----------



## Triggaaar

mattlach said:


> The truth is, no one can tell you what will sound best to you.
> 
> ...





> The Jotunheim is a bloody amazing amp for it price. I don't have the DAC in mine though as I already had a Modi Multibit.
> 
> I don't understand why everyone seems so obsessed about having everything in the same box, when mixing and matching and getting the best of both worlds is so much better.
> 
> ...


 
 The truth is that most of us can't audition all the products we're considering, so people have to others an idea opinion of what best. The Audio-GD NFB11 is $325, that's a huge amount less than the Jot & Multibit.
  
 The Multibit is something I'd consider getting. Are there any DACs at a similar price that you've been able to compare it to?


----------



## watchnerd

triggaaar said:


> The truth is that most of us can't audition all the products we're considering, so people have to others an idea opinion of what best. The Audio-GD NFB11 is $325, that's a huge amount less than the Jot & Multibit.
> 
> The Multibit is something I'd consider getting. Are there any DACs at a similar price that you've been able to compare it to?


 
  
 You're comparing Apples vs Oranges by comparing an ESS-based DS DAC vs multibit.
  
 The more apt comparison is NFB11 vs Jotunheim + built in DAC.  In that scenario, for $175 more you get a true balanced DS DAC with a more sophisticated analog stage than the NFB11.


----------



## Triggaaar

watchnerd said:


> You're comparing Apples vs Oranges by comparing an ESS-based DS DAC vs multibit.
> 
> The more apt comparison is NFB11 vs Jotunheim + built in DAC.  In that scenario, for $175 more you get a true balanced DS DAC with a more sophisticated analog stage than the NFB11.


 
 I wasn't comparing the quality of the NFB11 to the Jot and Multibit. Razor said he wanted either the Jot inc DAC, or the NFB-11, as he wanted the combination of AMP&DAC. Mattlach mentioned the Jot with Multibit being good, and I simply said that's a lot more expensive than the NFB11 - ie, it wasn't what Razor was looking for, it's not the same budget.
  
 NFB-11 vs Jot and built in DAC is what I was comparing. And I've seen people suggest the NFB-11 is better (single ended) and cheaper, but I've not seen anyone say the Jot is better.


----------



## Razor1991

mattlach said:


> The truth is, no one can tell you what will sound best to you.
> 
> That being said, I have the DT770 Pro's and a set of HD6xx's (the Massdrop hd650 version) and I recently went with a Jotunheim and am very happy with it.
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you for the opinion! that's really important to me.
 You created custom cable for the DT770 Pro (250ohm ? btw) to get a balance connection?


----------



## mattlach

razor1991 said:


> Thank you for the opinion! that's really important to me.
> You created custom cable for the DT770 Pro (250ohm ? btw) to get a balance connection?


 
  
 No, sorry if I was unclear.   I have soldered a cable for the HD6xx's but not yet for the DT770's.  I'm planning on doing it, and I already have the parts, but it's a much more involved operation because unlike the Sennheiser cable which has 4 wires all the way up to the headphones and into speaker elements, and just combines the the left and right minus into a combined ground in the stock connector to make it single ended, the DT770 Pro's are three wires all the way from the plug up to the headphones, and only inside the headphones does the combined ground split up and go to each speaker element.
  
 So, in order to convert the DT770's you have to open them up, desolder and remove the original cable, and replace it with a 4 wire cable with an XLR xonnector and then rewire the inside of the headphones.
  
 It's certainly doable, but takes more time and fine motor skills with the soldering iron.
  
 I decided to postpone doing this, because I recently had surgery and am on crutches.  I thought I could do it, but judging by how unsteady my hands were when I did the easy HD650 conversion, I have decided to wait to mod the DT770's until after I recover.
  
 And yes, the DT770 Pro's come in many different impedances.  32ohm, 80ohm, 250ohm and I think they even had a 600ohm version at one point.  Not sure if it is still sold.


----------



## Voxata

Just heat the solder and gently remove wires, don't pull. The 770 driver is fragile. I added a removable cable mod to mine, and will be snagging a set to do another someday. Be sure to replace all the stock wiring, it's so thin and complete trash. Sounds MUCH better now.


----------



## mattlach

triggaaar said:


> The truth is that most of us can't audition all the products we're considering, so people have to others an idea opinion of what best. The Audio-GD NFB11 is $325, that's a huge amount less than the Jot & Multibit.


 
  
 Well that is true.   Meets and Can Jams and having friends who are also into audio can help, but short of those, the best we can do is take advantage of Schiit's 15 day in home trial and return them (less shipping and restocking fee) if we don't like them.
  
  


triggaaar said:


> The Multibit is something I'd consider getting. Are there any DACs at a similar price that you've been able to compare it to?


 
  
  
 Well, that's part of the problem.  There aren't really any Multibit DAC's in the Modi Multibit's price class.  At least not any that are any good.  Remember, prior to Schiit kicking off the affordable Multibit revolution, true multibit (and I don't mean the silly low end multiple delta-sigma nonsense) was the realm of car priced audio jewelry.
  
 They entered the market with their halo DAC, the Yggdrasil for $2,299, and even that was a low cost revolution for what amounts to a true R2R multibit DAC implementation.   Then they rapidly brought this same implementation down throughout their lineup,m first to the $1,249 Gungnir Multibit, and then to the $599 Bifrost multibit, each a revolution in price to performance when they were launched.
  
 And then only a year later they blew up the market again with the $249 Modi Multibit.  There really isn't anything else like it at its price, so I don't know what I would give you as an example to compare it to.  Some people even prefer it to the $599 Bifrost Multibit, which also really lacks anything to compare it to at its price point.
  
 As Jason Stoddard puts it in the Modi Multibit chapter in his Schiit Book:
  


> _*Aside:* As I wrote, it struck me just how far Modi Multibit is in advance of other affordable Multibit DACs. Yes, there may be inexpensive offerings out there, but every single one of them either uses obsolete 16-bit "pull" audio DACs and audio digital filters (or are non-over sampling, or NOS). Modi Multibit is the only Multibit DAC that's built on a modern platform, using medical/military grade D/A converters and our own closed-form digital filter running on an Analog Devices DSP chip—and it is, by far, the most advanced thing anywhere near its price, from any company, from any country of origin._


 
  
 Now, granted, he is going to be biased.  After all it's his company, but I think he has a really good point.
  
 (That entire book is a great read by the way, I thoroughly enjoyed it)


----------



## Triggaaar

watchnerd said:


> I would highly question the assertion that the DAC is the weak part of the Jot.


 
  
 That's the impression I have from reading this thread. Obviously no one buys the Jot inc DAC to use the DAC with another amp, but plenty here are using the Jot amp with a better DAC. I haven't seen anyone say the DAC is bad for $100, quite the opposite, but they're still saying it's the weak point relative to the amp. If you find the DAC is better than others, that's cool, please go into more detail.
  


mwsvette said:


> I agree 100% with this.
> 
> Where else can you get a fully balanced DAC using 2 AK4490 chips for $100.00????


 
 Just because you might not get a better DAC for $100 doesn't mean it's not the weakpoint.
 I'm not convinced of the benefit of a balanced DAC at in that price range. Balanced amp to headphones yes.


----------



## Razor1991

Hope you will recover quickly!!
 The convert is really wroth the effort?
 I have the 80ohm because I want it to be more portable.


----------



## mattlach

razor1991 said:


> Hope you will recover quickly!!
> The convert is really wroth the effort?
> I have the 80ohm because I want it to be more portable.


 
  
  
 Thanks, appreciate it!
  
  
 And I couldn't tell you, at least for the DT770's  I haven't heard it converted yet, but Voxata above certainly seems to think so!
  
 I find the impact on the HD650's to be subtle but real.  It didn't get as much louder as I had expected (but that's fine, it's more than loud enough to hit the pain threshold as it is) but I do feel it tightened up the bass a little bit, and made channel separation and clarity EVER so slightly better.    This may be placebo though.
  
 The differences aren't huge, at least not to my ears, but the conversion on the HD650's is so easy and cheap, that you might as well do it if you have a balanced amp.


----------



## DavidA

Quote: 





razor1991 said:


> Hope you will recover quickly!!
> The convert is really wroth the effort?
> I have the 80ohm because I want it to be more portable.


 
 You want to make the DT-770 balanced so that its more portable?  Or do you want to make the cable removable and balanced at the same time?  To make them balanced and removable you need to get a new 4 conductor cable and either a 4 pin mini-XLR or make the DT-770 dual inlet.  This is my DT-990 with dual inlet removable cables:

 Another reason to go with dual inlet mini-XLR is that you can use Audeze LCD series cables.


----------



## mattlach

davida said:


> You want to make the DT-770 balanced so that its more portable?  Or do you want to make the cable removable and balanced at the same time?  To make them balanced and removable you need to get a new 4 conductor cable and either a 4 pin mini-XLR or make the DT-770 dual inlet.  This is my DT-990 with dual inlet removable cables:
> 
> Another reason to go with dual inlet mini-XLR is that you can use Audeze LCD series cables.


 
  
 Ah,  that's interesting.    I was planning on going with a removable 4 pin miniXLR where the stock cable comes out and replacing the wire that goes around the headband with a twisted pair of better wires.
  
 Did you have any issues with the back of the panel mount connectors touching the drivers when you modded yours?


----------



## Triggaaar

mattlach said:


> ... the best we can do is take advantage of Schiit's 15 day in home trial and return them (less shipping and restocking fee) if we don't like them.
> 
> Well, that's part of the problem.  There aren't really any Multibit DAC's in the Modi Multibit's price class.


 
 Unfortunately we don't all get the US prices / shipping / trials 
  
 All user comments on the modi multi are good and I haven't seen any DAC at that price so widely praised, but it's not so cheap in the UK.


----------



## MWSVette

triggaaar said:


> That's the impression I have from reading this thread. Obviously no one buys the Jot inc DAC to use the DAC with another amp, but plenty here are using the Jot amp with a better DAC. I haven't seen anyone say the DAC is bad for $100, quite the opposite, but they're still saying it's the weak point relative to the amp. If you find the DAC is better than others, that's cool, please go into more detail.
> 
> Just because you might not get a better DAC for $100 doesn't mean it's not the weakpoint.
> I'm not convinced of the benefit of a balanced DAC at in that price range. Balanced amp to headphones yes.


 
 Then get the Jot without DAC and add your better DAC of choice.  
  
 The options are why the Jotunheim has no weak points...


----------



## DavidA

@mattlach, sending you a PM since its getting off topic


----------



## mattlach

triggaaar said:


> Unfortunately we don't all get the US prices / shipping / trials
> 
> All user comments on the modi multi are good and I haven't seen any DAC at that price so widely praised, but it's not so cheap in the UK.


 
  
 Ahh, that's too bad.   I have no idea what their policies are outside of the States.


----------



## andrejc

I am about to purchase the Jot. Should I go with Mimby or Bimby if I plan to add a Valhalla 2 later on.
Some seem to like the Mimby with the Jot better than with the Mimby.


----------



## mattlach

andrejc said:


> I am about to purchase the Jot. Should I go with Mimby or Bimby if I plan to add a Valhalla 2 later on.
> Some seem to like the Mimby with the Jot better than with the Mimby.


 
  
 I feel like DAC "pairing" with amps is a lot less importnat than amp pairing with headphones.
  
 A better DAC will sound better pretty much regardless of what you connect as an output.   Even my ****ty Logitech desktop speakers benefited from being hooked up to the Modi Multibit.
  
 That being said, I've never heard a Bifrost multibit, so I can't compare and contrast them directly, all I can comment is what I have read.
  
 My opinion is that the Bifrost Multibit is probably the better DAC of the two, but some find that it shows distinct differences between highs and lows.  That it is as good as the Gungnir Multibit in the highs, but that the lows are a little bit more muddled.   By comparison reportedly the Modi Multibit does not have as excellent highs, but it is more even across the board, and that they prefer it because of that.  I can't confirm either of these though, as I haven't heard the Bifrost Multibit.  My feelings are these comments are probably a bit on the nit-picky side, but I ahve nothing really to base that off of.
  
 I think you'd probably be very happy with whichever one you got.  The Bifrost certainly has the benefit of being upgradeable though.  The Modi would have to be replaced if anything new tech comes around.   On the flip side, the Bifrost upgrades aren't that much cheaper than replacing the modi, when you figure in shipping to and from Schiit for the upgrade, so I'm not convinced the price proposition for upgradeability is really there.


----------



## Triggaaar

mwsvette said:


> Then get the Jot without DAC and add your better DAC of choice.
> 
> The options are why the Jotunheim has no weak points...


 

 That is an option, but then the NFB11, C-2 (SE) and NFB-1AMP (balanced) are also options. I wouldn't be surprised if the latter two are better, I'd like to find more comparisons though.


----------



## watchnerd

triggaaar said:


> I'm not convinced of the benefit of a balanced DAC at in that price range.


 
  
 Please explain -- the benefits of a balanced DAC should be the same regardless of price.


----------



## Razor1991

davida said:


> You want to make the DT-770 balanced so that its more portable?  Or do you want to make the cable removable and balanced at the same time?  To make them balanced and removable you need to get a new 4 conductor cable and either a 4 pin mini-XLR or make the DT-770 dual inlet.  This is my DT-990 with dual inlet removable cables:
> 
> Another reason to go with dual inlet mini-XLR is that you can use Audeze LCD series cables.


 
 No haha.
 I just asked him if it's worth the effort and than just mentioned my 770 model (80 ohm) because he has the 250ohm. The reason I choose the 80 ohm is that I want those headphones to be more portable (easy to drive with a portable amp)


----------



## Voxata

I did two 2.5mm mono for my DT770 removable cable mod.


----------



## Triggaaar

watchnerd said:


> Please explain -- the benefits of a balanced DAC should be the same regardless of price.


 
  
 I understand the benefit of headphones not sharing a signal for left and right. That signal is not shared between a DAC and amp is it? And on a very short run between DAC and Amp I can't imagine there's going to be much noise. Although I would expect any benefit, if any exists, to be small, I can understand that if you're spending a lot on a TOTL DAC and Amp then you want every last possible benefit. On more budget systems, there is definite room for improvement in other areas, and I'm not sure a balanced signal between DAC and Amp would be noticeable.If there is a noticeable benefit, please tell me why, I'm willing to learn.


----------



## watchnerd

triggaaar said:


> I understand the benefit of headphones not sharing a signal for left and right. That signal is not shared between a DAC and amp is it? And on a very short run between DAC and Amp I can't imagine there's going to be much noise. Although I would expect any benefit, if any exists, to be small, I can understand that if you're spending a lot on a TOTL DAC and Amp then you want every last possible benefit. On more budget systems, there is definite room for improvement in other areas, and I'm not sure a balanced signal between DAC and Amp would be noticeable.If there is a noticeable benefit, please tell me why, I'm willing to learn.


 
  
 Using a balanced configuration within the DAC itself (left +, left -, right +, right -) allows for lower noise and, most importantly, randomization of DAC non-linearity.


----------



## Triggaaar

watchnerd said:


> Using a balanced configuration within the DAC itself (left +, left -, right +, right -) allows for lower noise and, most importantly, randomization of DAC non-linearity.


 

 But Jot and Modi multibit doesn't use a balanced configuration, and everyone agrees it's better. Who here has done blind testing on a balanced connection between DAC and Amp and noticed a difference? And with what equipment?
  
  
 Here's just a quick example of where I get the idea that the DAC is the *comparatively* weak part:
  

 Quote:

 Originally Posted by *fjrabon* 



 Got to spend a little bit of head time on Sunday with the m9XX and the Joty head to head.  And the results were more or less as you'd expect.  Joty is very clearly a more capable amp than the m9XX.  It's not night and day, but the difference is there.  A bit more dynamic.  However, the DAC on the m9XX was a bit better, IMHO.  Both units sound to me very neutral.  The m9XX is maybe a smidge smoother, and the Joty a bit more detailed, but that difference is fairly miniscule.  I'd say they're very similar units on the whole tonality wise, just with different capabilities.  I still love the crossfeed capabilities of the m9XX, and not needing a wall wart can be a plus for the m9XX in certain situations.
  
 Overall, I'd say if you need amping versatility, go with the Jotenheim; it can drive everything from IEMs to the HE6 well.  It may not be the best amp in the world for every headphone, but it will acquit itself well with anything you throw at it.  If you have exclusively medium to easy to drive single ended headphones, go with the m9XX, as the better DAC will shine, and it has more features and more versatility use wise.


----------



## watchnerd

triggaaar said:


> But Jot and Modi multibit doesn't use a balanced configuration, and everyone agrees it's better.


 
  
 I was answering a technical question about why a balanced DAC has benefits.
  
 Subjective preferences are a different issue.  
  
 Also, "everyone" seems a bit hyperbole given the sample size.


----------



## mattlach

watchnerd said:


> Also, "everyone" seems a bit hyperbole given the sample size.


 
  
 True,  but in this thread, it seems that in the tradeoff between balanced Delta Sigma, and Single Ended multibit, single ended multibit is winning the opinion war by a rather wide margin.


----------



## Triggaaar

watchnerd said:


> I was answering a technical question about why a balanced DAC has benefits.
> 
> Subjective preferences are a different issue.
> 
> Also, "everyone" seems a bit hyperbole given the sample size.


 
   
You're saying that there are technical differences between balanced and non balanced DAC to Amp connection. I simply said that I wasn't convinced of the benefit (with regard to sound quality). I'm still not.

  
 Well I've read pretty much all of this thread, and while I've seen several people say the DAC is good for $100, I've also seen several say they prefer the Jot with a separate DAC, and I've not seen anyone say they prefer the sound from the in-built DAC than any separate DAC they've tried. I'm not suggesting that makes it fact, it's just the only evidence I've seen. So is your experience different? Have you compared the in-built DAC to an external DAC and found the internal to be as good or better?


----------



## watchnerd

mattlach said:


> True,  but in this thread, it seems that in the tradeoff between balanced Delta Sigma, and Single Ended multibit, single ended multibit is winning the opinion war by a rather wide margin.


 
  
 And yet if you go into professional recording studios, you see balanced + DS/SD everywhere.
  
 Which group would you rate more highly in terms of their expertise?


----------



## watchnerd

triggaaar said:


> So is your experience different? Have you compared the in-built DAC to an external DAC and found the internal to be as good or better?


 
  
 My experience is different, yes.
  
 I find the differences between well implemented DAC chips to be relatively small compared to the differences between analog stages with different topologies (which shouldn't be that surprising to anyone with basic EE knowledge).
  
 Therefore, given a finite budget, I tend to favor spending more for the better analog stage.  Upgrade the chip later, once you've reached end-game on the analog side.
  
 After all, it's the analog side the drives your headphones / speakers.  Not the chips.


----------



## mattlach

watchnerd said:


> And yet if you go into professional recording studios, you see balanced + DS/SD everywhere.
> 
> Which group would you rate more highly in terms of their expertise?





Well, they are different applications for different uses.

In a recording studio it is absolutely crucial that your masters wind up with as little noise as possible, when using long cables, and as such balanced will be absolutely crucial.

I have no doubt the studios could benefit from multibit over delta sigma, but the technology (with a few notable exceptions) hasn't really made its way there yet.

In a world where the final album mix is almost always compressed to 96% volume across the board for radio playback, completely sacrificing dynamic range, and introducing sound quality quantization error effects due to wasting most of the 16 bits of the output format, optimal quality isn't necessarily the priority unfortunately, when they know most of their customers are going to be playing it back on unsophisticated hardware, and won't care, and will respond more to the loudness war than they will to actual quality, it doesn't become a priority in most cases.

The positive news - however - is that the loudness war is reportedly starting to die down, and maybe just maybe some multibit equipment will wind up in studios soon.   I remember from reading Jason Stoddard's book that Mike Moffat had contracted on a project to get some multibit technology into recording studios.  I forget the details though.


----------



## zeissiez

For 100 more, getting the Jot with the DAC is not a bad decision. It's fine for music if u don't compare.


----------



## bassaddicted

After only 4 hours of use, I'm probably sending my Jot with DAC module back. It's a quality product, but just not what I'm looking for. If anyone wants mine let me know soon.


----------



## mattlach

zeissiez said:


> It's fine for music if u don't compare.


 
  
 Lol.   You must have forgotten which forums you are on...


----------



## Triggaaar

zeissiez said:


> For 100 more, getting the Jot with the DAC is not a bad decision. It's fine for music if u don't compare.


 
 Damned with faint praise


----------



## Triggaaar

bassaddicted said:


> After only 4 hours of use, I'm probably sending my Jot with DAC module back. It's a quality product, but just not what I'm looking for. If anyone wants mine let me know soon.


 

 I can see your location is the same as mine, so I'm up for trying it out


----------



## Shembot

mwhals said:


> I am thinking about the Jotunheim or the Mjolnir 2. Not sure of the sound differences between the two. Has anyone heard both or own both?


 

 I own both and did an extensive test tonight with my LCD-4 of Mjolnir 2 with nice vintage tubes vs. Jotunheim vs. Mjolnir 2 with LiSST. The test was with a variety of music genres (classical, dance, blues rock, metal) using my Gungnir Multibit as DAC. Source was Tidal, 16 bit/44.1 kHz FLAC, played through Audirvana Plus on my iMac (Late 2014 Retina 5K 27") with Cabledyne Silver Reference cables, Wyrd, and an AudioQuest JitterBug.
  
 Before I give you the results, please note that *this is only my opinion; I'm biased, like everyone else, and I haven't heard everything in the world*.
  
*Mjolnir 2 with tubes > Jotunheim > Mjolnir 2 with LiSST.*
  
 To my ear, Mjolnir 2 with tubes was the most exciting, had the best separation and imaging, presented the largest soundstage, and was slightly more resolving in all but the top end (where Jotunheim shines, in my opinion). 
  
 Jotunheim sounded very neutral to me and had a pleasantly detailed and shimmering high end that I enjoyed. I found it to be more resolving and to have a blacker background than Mjolnir 2 with LiSST while presenting similar imaging and soundstage. Compared to Mjolnir 2 with tubes, though, the soundstage was noticeably smaller and the imaging less precise, and the overall experience was less engaging.
  
 Mjolnir 2 with LiSST was very similar to Jotunheim but with slightly less resolution, slightly less black background, and slightly less high-end presence, which probably contributed to what seemed like slightly less overall detail and separation. This is consistent with my prior opinion of Mjolnir 2 with LiSST compared to tubes; even with the Schiit-supplied stock tubes, Mjolnir 2 just sounds significantly better to me with tubes than it does with LiSST (and I have no particular preference toward either solid state or tubes in general).
  
 BONUS: I also compared Gungnir Multibit to Jotunheim's DAC card, on a lark. I actually laughed out loud at how much better Gungnir Multibit sounded to me. It wasn't even remotely close. Of course, one might expect this to be the case.  This is not a criticism of Jotunheim's DAC necessarily, though, as it's not a fair contest and I haven't compared it to anything else.
  
 Again, *t**his is only my opinion; I'm biased, like everyone else, and I haven't heard everything in the world*.


----------



## Voxata

Define nice vintage tubes


----------



## mwhals

Shembot

Thanks. What tubes did you have in the Mjolnir 2? Stock or other?


----------



## Shembot

Voxata mwhals '74 Reflektor SWGP Silver Shields


----------



## MWSVette

shembot said:


> @Voxata @mwhals '74 Reflektor SWGP Silver Shields


 
 Agreed those are nice tubes...


----------



## frankietown

Really random question guys
  
 For the Jotunheim, even if it is off it says "Schiit USB Gen 2" in the play devices on Windows 10. I guess is that normal behavior? When I had the Modi2, when I turned it off, it went away.
  
 Thank you


----------



## mwhals

frankietown said:


> Really random question guys
> 
> For the Jotunheim, even if it is off it says "Schiit USB Gen 2" in the play devices on Windows 10. I guess is that normal behavior? When I had the Modi2, when I turned it off, it went away.
> 
> Thank you




I assume you are using the Jotunheim built in DAC. The USB input is powered by the computer's USB port, so there is power to it even if the Jotunheim is off.


----------



## Kcharng

Jot dac is usb powered. Only the amp section is powered through electrical socket 

Sent from my SM-N920C using Tapatalk


----------



## mattlach

frankietown said:


> Really random question guys
> 
> For the Jotunheim, even if it is off it says "Schiit USB Gen 2" in the play devices on Windows 10. I guess is that normal behavior? When I had the Modi2, when I turned it off, it went away.
> 
> Thank you




As has been mentioned above, the DAC is powered over the USB, in order to keep the power separated from the analogue amp, this reducing noise.

Schiit had always been opposed to combining DAC's and amps because of this noise problem, and this is how they went about solving it.

So, regardless of which position the power switch is in, the DAC board is always powered on if plugged in to a PC with power.


----------



## olor1n

Wrong. The Jotunheim's DAC board is not USB powered. It is only the USB input that's USB powered.


----------



## mwhals

olor1n said:


> Wrong. The Jotunheim's DAC board is not USB powered. It is only the USB input that's USB powered.




This is true and what I posted above.


----------



## Baldr

watchnerd said:


> And yet if you go into professional recording studios, you see balanced + DS/SD everywhere.
> 
> Which group would you rate more highly in terms of their expertise?


 

 Brought to you by folks too often in support of visually attractive singers whose ability to show their stuff dramatically is only exceeded by their need for autotune to mask their hopeless lack of musical/singing talent.  The worse the average musical caliber of performer, the less the requirement for brilliance in recording ability.


----------



## parttimelovah

the internal struggle on if going jot specifically for the balanced dac is worth it


----------



## watchnerd

baldr said:


> Brought to you by folks too often in support of visually attractive singers whose ability to show their stuff dramatically is only exceeded by their need for autotune to mask their hopeless lack of musical/singing talent.  The worse the average musical caliber of performer, the less the requirement for brilliance in recording ability.


 
  
 If convincing studios to switch to R2R ADCs will kill autotune and stop Justin Bieber, sign me up.


----------



## exiges

Yesterday I received my Jotunheim with DAC and had difficulty getting the DAC to work properly, my Windows 10 PC wouldn't recognise it, so I thought I'd describe how I got it working.
  
 The problem:
  
 Windows 10 saw that I had a new device "Schiit USB Audio Gen 2", but it was unable to find/install drivers for it.
  
 So I went to http://schiit.com/drivers but there was nothing specifically for the Jotunheim, but I figured the Gen 2 drivers for the Modi 2 / Modi 2 Uber, Bifrost + Gungnir would work so downloaded those.
  
 I unpacked the zip file and clicked on Setup.exe and it went through the process of trying to install, but the installer said "Please connect the CMEDIA USB2.0 Audio Device"..  except it was already connected. Hmm
  
 So I disconnected the DAC and reconnected it, still the same message.
  
 Here's how to fix it:
  
*1) Go to the folder where the contents of the unzipped Schiit drivers/installer, and found the Win10 folder > Software Driver > Driver*
  
*2) Right mouse click CMUACWO.inf and select INSTALL.   This will now allow you to find the drivers from Device Manager > Update Drivers.*
  
*3) Go to your Device Manager under "Other Devices" find the Schiit USB Audio Gen 2 with the yellow question mark next to it.  Select Update Driver Software > Browse My Computer for Driver Software > Let Me Pick from a List of Device Drivers On My Computer*
  
*4) Scroll down the list of device types and select "Sound, Video and Game controllers"*
  
*5) Scroll down the list of Manufacturers and click "C-Media Inc".  "USB Audio Class 1.0 and 2.0 Device Driver with MS Effect" should be the only Model shown.*
  
*6) Click "Next" and windows will say "Installing this device is not recommended because Windows cannot verify that this is compatible with your hardware.... Do you want to continue".  Click Yes.*
  
*7) And you're done !  In device manager your DAC will now appear as a "Schiit USB Audio Gen 2".*
  
 Enjoy


----------



## exiges

< post made in error >


----------



## jmc15john

Good guide exiges!

I had the same issue with setting up mine yesterday morning. I ended up installing the gen 1 drivers, then uninstalling and then I got the gen 2 drivers to finally take from Schitts website. But I don't remember the exact steps I took. Either way Schitt needs to update their Driver FAQ because it seems the driver isn't correctly auto installing on Windows 10.


----------



## Kcharng

This is great. I would give vendor driver a go when I had the chance to see if there are any different. 

However window default driver installed automatically and worked quite well for me. I checked the driver signature and it was dated June 2016. What is the date of the cmedia driver.? 

Sent from my SM-N920C using Tapatalk


----------



## potterma

Anyone had issues connecting an Intona between PC & Jot?  With my industrial Intona in front of Jot, I get "unrecognized device".  Works fine with an external hard drive, but no luck with Jot.  Windows 7 64 bit.  Decent grade USB 2.0 cables.  Gen 2 USB audio driver.
  
 Edit to add: SOLVED Decent USB cables, but looong.... 10 footers before and after (all I had on hand).  With a short (3 ft) between Intona and Jot it connects fine, so I suspect voltage drop across the long cable.


----------



## 1mctous

The CMEDIA driver dates from March 2014, and Windows 10 did not play nice with it.  After several rounds with Compatibility settings, I finally got it to work and it has worked ever since.  The Schiit Modi Multibit's sound is well worth the driver hassle.


----------



## tlainhart

I received a plain Jot a couple days back, and have been listening w/ my GS-1000e.  I'm liking what I'm hearing.  It might be over-kill for those HPs, but I wanted something that I could grow with.  Vinyl, and the DAC out of my CD player.
  
 I came from a Lyr2, but was looking for a little more detail. Reading around, I thought it possible that I could get that with tube rolling but I didn't want to get sucked into that.
  
   -- Todd


----------



## iamxLn

How much more bass does the lyr 2 have in comparison? How about soundstage? I found both to be a let down with jot.


----------



## DavidA

iamxln said:


> How much more bass does the lyr 2 have in comparison? How about soundstage? I found both to be a let down with jot.


 
 With the Lyr2 its all about the tubes you roll which can get pricy.


----------



## slex

So actually im still in the dark what class of amp jotunheim belong to? Hybrid class A?


----------



## AviP

slex said:


> So actually im still in the dark what class of amp jotunheim belong to? Hybrid class A?



Solid state class AB


----------



## slex

avip said:


> Solid state class AB



Thanks!It was not stated either on description & spec.


----------



## ProtegeManiac

slex said:


> Thanks!It was not stated either on description & spec.


 
  
 Whenever it isn't explicitly stated to be Class A (or Class T/fullrange Class D), assume it is A/B if it's for home use. Note that I make the distinction because in pro amps there were a lot more others that are more widely used prior to fullrange Class D's popularity.


----------



## tlainhart

iamxln said:


> How much more bass does the lyr 2 have in comparison? How about soundstage? I found both to be a let down with jot.




I don't have the aural memory to compare the two re. bass and soundstage. My sense is that the jot has more detail over the lyr with the stock tubes. It has more timbral body and detail over the discrete amp in my Rogue Sphinx - the lyr has less.. Also, I only have a Grado to make these comparisons so ymmv.

I'll guess is that if you were disappointed with the jot you might be disappointed with the lyr.


----------



## mattlach

iamxln said:


> How much more bass does the lyr 2 have in comparison? How about soundstage? I found both to be a let down with jot.


 
  
 I went from the Lyr 2 to the Jot and I thought the bass was a little weaker on the Jotunheim at first, but I had a set of 1975 Voskhod "Russian Rocket" tubes in mine, which have a bit of a reputation for being "dark", so I may just have gotten used to the extra bass from those.
  
 Thing is, when it comes to how much bass you have (or other aspects of sound) you are going to have a much bigger impact on this in your choice of headphones, than in your amp.
  
 I found the Jot to have a little less bass than I liked with my Beyerdynamic DT770 pro's.   The Sennheiser DT6xx's (DT650's) however, while they are technically more neutral, allow me to turn them up a bit more due to their less harsh highs, which results in an experience that is more bassy, and I like it.


----------



## franzdom

Very plenty of bass with LCD-3, and I have had Lyr. I think there is more here.


----------



## watchnerd

mattlach said:


> Thing is, when it comes to how much bass you have (or other aspects of sound) you are going to have a much bigger impact on this in your choice of headphones, than in your amp.


 
  
 100% true.
  
 For some reason that I don't understand, people seem to forget that transducers are the biggest variable in the audio chain (both front and back, ie. microphones to headphones / speakers).


----------



## iamxLn

Just asking because my previous amp had a little more than the jot, and i may have gotten used to it because i find the jot lacking on the low end in oomph and a little strident in the highs. This is with a mad dog pro, zmf vibro mk2 and hd650, all of which are considered dark.


----------



## watchnerd

iamxln said:


> Just asking because my previous amp had a little more than the jot, and i may have gotten used to it


 
  
 This may not be because of more or less bass, but differences in damping factor.
  
 Higher damping factor leads to more driver control (faster stops and starts), which can lead to "tighter" bass which some might perceive as "less".  When in reality lower damping factor can just be more driver overhang.


----------



## iamxLn

that makes sense, thank you


----------



## floppiness

Just got my jot w/dac. Sounds great with my edition x v2. I prefer it to my ifi stack (idsd, itube, ican).


----------



## hattrick15

Love my Jot w/Dac.  I needed a small desktop solution at work to power by Ether C headphones.  Didn't have a lot of space, so the Jot fit the bill.  The sound is terrific in such a small footprint.


----------



## James Myers

I've been looking around but haven't found the answer so I thought I'd ask: If you are running powered monitors out of the pre outs, and you plug in headphones, will it mute the monitors?


----------



## mwhals

james myers said:


> I've been looking around but haven't found the answer so I thought I'd ask: If you are running powered monitors out of the pre outs, and you plug in headphones, will it mute the monitors?




The preouts are not muted when plugging in headphones.


----------



## James Myers

mwhals said:


> The preouts are not muted when plugging in headphones.


 
 TY, it was almost perfect :/


----------



## Aeromarine

Have anyone compares Jot vs. Deckyard yet?! What do you guys think?


----------



## mattlach

Does anyone know if there are any downsides to using both the balanced and single ended preamp outs on the Jotunheim at the same time?


----------



## mattlach

james myers said:


> TY, it was almost perfect :/


 
  
  
 Unfortunately you won't find any balanced amp that does this.  
  
 It's not a Schiit limitation.
  
 Just about every audio manufacturer out there relies on off the shelf parts for their connectors, and while there are TRS connectors with internal mute switches, there are no 4 pin XLR connectors with this type of switch.
  
 Schiit simply can't order the parts necessary for this behavior, because they don't exist.


----------



## gmahler2u

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you all!!  Hope santa get you Yggy or Gumby!!
  
 Peace!


----------



## oddidude

Just set up my Jot and I'm already loving it. It sounds brilliant and there's plenty of power for everything I have 

Merry Christmas to all!


----------



## MWSVette

oddidude said:


> Just set up my Jot and I'm already loving it. It sounds brilliant and there's plenty of power for everything I have
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Merry Christmas to you.
  
 And welcome to the Jot club...


----------



## Triggaaar

mattlach said:


> Unfortunately you won't find any balanced amp that does this.
> 
> It's not a Schiit limitation.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Doesn't the Audio-GD NFB28 have a switch to switch between (balanced) headphones and preamp?
 Of course that's different from relying on removing the headphones - it's even better.


----------



## mattlach

triggaaar said:


> Doesn't the Audio-GD NFB28 have a switch to switch between (balanced) headphones and preamp?
> Of course that's different from relying on removing the headphones - it's even better.


 
  
 True, but if you are relying on a manual switch, you'd be better off just powering off your power amp/ powered monitors, and saving yourself some power while you are at it.
  
 Leaving your speaker amp on all the time just in case you are going to use it is horribly wasteful


----------



## Triggaaar

mattlach said:


> True, but if you are relying on a manual switch, you'd be better off just powering off your power amp/ powered monitors, and saving yourself some power while you are at it.


 
 My studio monitors auto power off, then on when they get a signal (so I think just using minimal power).
  
  


> Leaving your speaker amp on all the time just in case you are going to use it is horribly wasteful


 
  
 Unfortunately I can't say the same about my 5.1 Active speakers, which have been burning energy 24/7 for 12 years


----------



## Swolern

How does the Jotunheim's amp compare to the Mjolnir v1? Is there any reason to get the Mjolnir v1 over the Jotunheim now?


----------



## KG Jag

swolern said:


> How does the Jotunheim's amp compare to the Mjolnir v1? Is there any reason to get the Mjolnir v1 over the Jotunheim now?


 
  
 That might depend on price and condition of what will be a used M1.


----------



## mwhals

swolern said:


> How does the Jotunheim's amp compare to the Mjolnir v1? Is there any reason to get the Mjolnir v1 over the Jotunheim now?




I am thinking the same, except with the Mjolnir 2 for use with ZMF Ori, Atticus and Eikon.


----------



## iamxLn

I kind of wish I waited and just got the mojo for my zmf. I'd wait to see what schiit does next year though.


----------



## Swolern

kg jag said:


> That might depend on price and condition of what will be a used M1.


 
  
 I saw a M1 for $450. I guess it wouldnt make sense unless the M1 is less than $399.


mwhals said:


> I am thinking the same, except with the Mjolnir 2 for use with ZMF Ori, Atticus and Eikon.


 
 The M2 is a whole different beast.


----------



## Shembot

swolern said:


> How does the Jotunheim's amp compare to the Mjolnir v1? Is there any reason to get the Mjolnir v1 over the Jotunheim now?


 

 Having owned both, my ears tell me Jotunheim is the better amp, so my opinion is no.


----------



## tunes

I bought an IFi micro iCan SE transportable amp for
Travel to use in conjunction with my QP1R as a dap and HE 1000 and this is a very punchy and clean sounding amp. It seems to be twice as powerful as the Jot that I also have at home and for some music actually prefer the additional base boost or 3-D effects albeit subtle changes. Does anyone else have this little wonder of an amp!!


----------



## Swolern

shembot said:


> Having owned both, my ears tell me Jotunheim is the better amp, so my opinion is no.


Wow. That says a lot. Thx. 

Does anyone know how the Jot's $100 add-on DAC compares to Schiits stand alone DACs?
Better than Modi2, not as good as Bifrost?


----------



## Shembot

swolern said:


> Wow. That says a lot. Thx.
> 
> Does anyone know how the Jot's $100 add-on DAC compares to Schiits stand alone DACs?
> Better than Modi2, not as good as Bifrost?


 

 The Jot's $100 DAC does not even come remotely close to as good as my Gungnir Multibit or my boss's Bifrost Multibit. It's night and day, and I don't say that lightly. Jot's DAC isn't necessarily "bad," but it not even playing the same sport as Gungnir Multibit and Bifrost Multibit. 
  
 Those are the only two with which I've compared it, so I can't speak for any other model (including Modi 2). Perhaps someone else can chime in who has heard more.


----------



## mwhals

Many in this thread got the Mimby (Modi MB) and say it is better than the Jotunheim DAC. It is also only $150 more that the Jotunheim DAC.


----------



## slex

mwhals said:


> Many in this thread got the Mimby (Modi MB) and say it is better than the Jotunheim DAC. It is also only $150 more that the Jotunheim DAC.



Also spdif coaxial & optical inputs


----------



## Ancipital

shembot said:


> The Jot's $100 DAC does not even come remotely close to as good as my Gungnir Multibit or my boss's Bifrost Multibit. It's night and day, and I don't say that lightly. Jot's DAC isn't necessarily "bad," but it not even playing the same sport as Gungnir Multibit and Bifrost Multibit.
> 
> Those are the only two with which I've compared it, so I can't speak for any other model (including Modi 2). Perhaps someone else can chime in who has heard more.


 
  
 The Modi 2 Multibit is the sonic equal, and in some ways superior of the Bifrost Multibit for a much smaller cost. It's ridiculous. Schiit undercutting themselves again. There's not a whole lot of reason to buy a Bifrost Multibit right now, go Mimby or person up and look the Gumby/Yggy in the eye. It's that good.
  
 There is, apparently, an odd edge case that you'd only hear on a speaker rig that costs as much as a decent car where you'd hear more impressive bass from the Bimby, but you won't hear that on a headphone rig, however good. If you had that amount of money, you'd likely have a better DAC already though- we're talking monster rigs.
  
 It doesn't stack neatly with the Jot of course- but with a set of PYST cables, you can perch it on top, without obstructing most of the ventilation holes, and it all works very nicely.


----------



## Shembot

ancipital said:


> The Modi 2 Multibit is the sonic equal, and in some ways superior of the Bifrost Multibit for a much smaller cost. It's ridiculous. Schiit undercutting themselves again. There's not a whole lot of reason to buy a Bifrost Multibit right now, go Mimby or person up and look the Gumby/Yggy in the eye. It's that good.
> 
> There is, apparently, an odd edge case that you'd only hear on a speaker rig that costs as much as a decent car where you'd hear more impressive bass from the Bimby, but you won't hear that on a headphone rig, however good. If you had that amount of money, you'd likely have a better DAC already though- we're talking monster rigs.
> 
> It doesn't stack neatly with the Jot of course- but with a set of PYST cables, you can perch it on top, without obstructing most of the ventilation holes, and it all works very nicely.


 
  
 I haven't heard the Modi Multibit to comment on the sound, but with respect to price, it's worth considering that Bifrost is upgradable and the Modi Multibit is throwaway when technology improves.


----------



## Ancipital

shembot said:


> I haven't heard the Modi Multibit to comment on the sound, but with respect to price, it's worth considering that Bifrost is upgradable and the Modi Multibit is throwaway when technology improves.


 
  
 However, the Bifrost Multibit upgrade board on its own costs more than the whole Modi Multibit, and the latter is considerably more useful on its own for building secondary rigs, should you outgrow it- not to mention exponentially easier to move as a used unit.
  
 If you don't already have a legacy non-multibit Bifrost, it's a bit of a hard sell. There currently isn't anything to upgrade the Bifrost to that improves it demonstrably beyond the Mimby. Maybe if there was, it'd be a valid consideration. As it is, the only real reason to pay way more than twice the price for no real improvement in sound is if you were super-OCD about stacking form factors.
  
 The Bifrost is a perfectly good DAC, just it's a bit of an anomaly at present, at that price. If you were buying your first Multibit, in the post-Mimby era, your sane choices would be Mimby, Gumby or Yggy. For now.


----------



## slex

shembot said:


> I haven't heard the Modi Multibit to comment on the sound, but with respect to price, it's worth considering that Bifrost is upgradable and the Modi Multibit is throwaway when technology improves.



Keep it you might never know it could be use as balance dac with a a pair of mimby's in the future .


----------



## Baldr

ancipital said:


> However, the Bifrost Multibit upgrade board on its own costs more than the whole Modi Multibit, and the latter is considerably more useful on its own for building secondary rigs, should you outgrow it- not to mention exponentially easier to move as a used unit.
> 
> If you don't already have a legacy non-multibit Bifrost, it's a bit of a hard sell. There currently isn't anything to upgrade the Bifrost to that improves it demonstrably beyond the Mimby. Maybe if there was, it'd be a valid consideration. As it is, the only real reason to pay way more than twice the price for no real improvement in sound is if you were super-OCD about stacking form factors.
> 
> The Bifrost is a perfectly good DAC, just it's a bit of an anomaly at present, at that price. If you were buying your first Multibit, in the post-Mimby era, your sane choices are basically Mimby, Gumby or Yggy.


 

 All very good things come to those who wait.


----------



## Ancipital

baldr said:


> All very good things come to those who wait.


 
  
 You glorious person. People still haven't got their heads around the last time you turned the DAC market on its head with the Mimby.
  
 I grin in your general direction.


----------



## Voxata

Well, my curiosity is now spiking.


----------



## showme99

baldr said:


> All very good things come to those who wait.



Interesting.

Maybe there's a balanced, multibit "Bifrost 2" in the works...


----------



## slex

showme99 said:


> Interesting.
> 
> Maybe there's a balanced, multibit "Bifrost 2" in the works...



It should be, both perfect match desktop size.


----------



## Voxata

Uberfrost incoming


----------



## mattlach

ancipital said:


> The Modi 2 Multibit is the sonic equal, and in some ways superior of the Bifrost Multibit for a much smaller cost. It's ridiculous. Schiit undercutting themselves again. There's not a whole lot of reason to buy a Bifrost Multibit right now, go Mimby or person up and look the Gumby/Yggy in the eye. It's that good.
> 
> There is, apparently, an odd edge case that you'd only hear on a speaker rig that costs as much as a decent car where you'd hear more impressive bass from the Bimby, but you won't hear that on a headphone rig, however good. If you had that amount of money, you'd likely have a better DAC already though- we're talking monster rigs.
> 
> It doesn't stack neatly with the Jot of course- but with a set of PYST cables, you can perch it on top, without obstructing most of the ventilation holes, and it all works very nicely.


 
  
 I prefer the side by side approach


----------



## theveterans

baldr said:


> All very good things come to those who wait.


 
  
 Any updates on the Bifrost MB, particularly higher oversampling burrito filter, higher DAC chip and discrete analog stage, i.e. trickle down the Gungnir Multibit?


----------



## Clemmaster

Isolated (and -maybe/hopefully- re-clocked) USB input is my bet.


----------



## mattlach

showme99 said:


> Interesting.
> 
> Maybe there's a balanced, multibit "Bifrost 2" in the works...




That would be awesome. If not outside of my pricerange, I'd be on the interested list for this.

I love my Modi Multibit, but it would be nice to have an entire balanced chain.

That would require a new case though, as the existing Bifrost case doesn't have holes for balanced outputs.

I wonder if they go down this track, it means it becomes a new bifrost all together without upgrade options from the previous Bifrost (which would likely annoy some as they paid for bifrost for the upgradeability) or if they can find a way to make it yet another upgrade.

Of course now they face the same dilemma they always face. Singificantly upgrade bifrost? Now what do you do with Gungnir? A Gungnir upgrade? Then what happens to Yggdrasil?


----------



## slex

im wondering what they will cook up besides dac and phono inputs in jotunheim?

Good things to come too?


----------



## Mikko Peltonen

I am really impressed with the specs and reviews of this product. I read all the messages in this discussion last weekend and got very excited. Now I'm waiting for the European supplier to get their hands on new stock so I can order one. Currently I don't have any DACs or amps so I'm intrigued to find out how much of a difference this makes.


----------



## mwhals

mikko peltonen said:


> I am really impressed with the specs and reviews of this product. I read all the messages in this discussion last weekend and got very excited. Now I'm waiting for the European supplier to get their hands on new stock so I can order one. Currently I don't have any DACs or amps so I'm intrigued to find out how much of a difference this makes.




You and I are in a similar boat in that we both read this whole thread and don't own a dac or amp yet.


----------



## Ancipital

mikko peltonen said:


> I am really impressed with the specs and reviews of this product. I read all the messages in this discussion last weekend and got very excited. Now I'm waiting for the European supplier to get their hands on new stock so I can order one. Currently I don't have any DACs or amps so I'm intrigued to find out how much of a difference this makes.


 
  
 Going from no dedicated DAC and amp, to a Jot and possibly a Mimby is quite an upgrade, assuming your headphones are of reasonable quality. You'll end up doing the cliched "rediscovering my favourite music" thing, beware!


----------



## Swolern

ancipital said:


> Going from no dedicated DAC and amp, to a Jot and possibly a Mimby is quite an upgrade, assuming your headphones are of reasonable quality. You'll end up doing the cliched "rediscovering my favourite music" thing, beware!


 +1. Would definitely be a night & day difference.


----------



## zeissiez

I dislike Schiit's claim that the Jot DAC/amp combo being "the world's first sane DAC/amp". The internal DAC is clearly lacking behind those of the rivals. And upgrading the DAC is only possible by sending back. Meaning most of us not living in the States are stucked with an inferior DAC. It's the opposite of sane. I truly find this statement irresponsible and misleading.


----------



## watchnerd

zeissiez said:


> I dislike Schiit's claim that the Jot DAC/amp combo being "the world's first sane DAC/amp". The internal DAC is clearly lacking behind those of the rivals. And upgrading the DAC is only possible by sending back. Meaning most of us not living in the States are stucked with an inferior DAC. It's the opposite of sane. I truly find this statement irresponsible and misleading.


----------



## joeexp

zeissiez said:


> I dislike Schiit's claim that the Jot DAC/amp combo being "the world's first sane DAC/amp". The internal DAC is clearly lacking behind those of the rivals. And upgrading the DAC is only possible by sending back. Meaning most of us not living in the States are stucked with an inferior DAC. It's the opposite of sane. I truly find this statement irresponsible and misleading.


 

 What ever happened to your sense of humor?


----------



## Byronb

zeissiez said:


> I dislike Schiit's claim that the Jot DAC/amp combo being "the world's first sane DAC/amp". The internal DAC is clearly lacking behind those of the rivals. And upgrading the DAC is only possible by sending back. Meaning most of us not living in the States are stucked with an inferior DAC. It's the opposite of sane. I truly find this statement irresponsible and misleading.


 
 That is one opinion. I find it to be quite up to scratch.


----------



## MWSVette

zeissiez said:


> I dislike Schiit's claim that the Jot DAC/amp combo being "the world's first sane DAC/amp". The internal DAC is clearly lacking behind those of the rivals. And upgrading the DAC is only possible by sending back. Meaning most of us not living in the States are stucked with an inferior DAC. It's the opposite of sane. I truly find this statement irresponsible and misleading.


 
 Which rival fully balanced DAC/amp is clearly ahead of the Jot @$499.00 exactly?  And what is inferior about a balanced dual AK4490 chip DAC for a $100.00?


----------



## zeissiez

I compared directly to A20H, NFB-28, Compass 2. U still believe the DAC within the Jot is good???


----------



## Swolern

watchnerd said:


>


----------



## DougD

zeissiez said:


> I dislike Schiit's claim that the Jot DAC/amp combo being "the world's first sane DAC/amp". The internal DAC is clearly lacking behind those of the rivals. And upgrading the DAC is only possible by sending back. Meaning most of us not living in the States are stucked with an inferior DAC. It's the opposite of sane. I truly find this statement irresponsible and misleading.


 
  
 I can't tell if you are being cranky, or you're missing the point of the Jot. I'll assume the latter.
  
 It's a headphone amp. According to many, a quite remarkable product for $399 US. 
  
 IF someone ALSO wants the convenience of an internal DAC, making it a simple piece of gear to move around or use at the office,
    or wants/needs an inexpensive DAC as a starter,
 then for an additional $100 US it can arrive with the optional balanced DAC.
  
 Is that the world's best DAC? Surely not. Is that the world's best DAC available for $100? Well that it (arguably) might be. If you think that DAC (and its implementation) is "inferior," then don't buy that optional module. 
  
 Upgrading the Jot's DAC to be world-class does not require you to ship the Jot back to the manufacturer in the USA. Simply buy whatever standalone DAC you think is "superior", and plug it in to the inputs on the back of the Jot, either balanced or SE. Bingo, you're upgraded. 
  
 So if someone likes the amp part of the Jot, he/she should buy it. 
  
 And if s/he also wants a pretty decent low priced DAC to go with it, or a pretty decent low-priced phono stage, then buy one of those options. Or don't. 
  
 Bottom line: it's Schiit. It's not for everybody. (But most people who want it, can afford it. That's the magic dust sprinkled on by Mike & Jason & their crew.)


----------



## 1mctous

The DAC makes an easily audible difference no matter what.  The headphone amp becomes important once you upgrade from cheap IEMs to more power-hungry full-size headphones.  I agree with Schiit's approach to keep them separate, or at least keep them modular in the Jotenheim.


----------



## Ancipital

zeissiez said:


> I dislike Schiit's claim that the Jot DAC/amp combo being "the world's first sane DAC/amp". The internal DAC is clearly lacking behind those of the rivals. And upgrading the DAC is only possible by sending back. Meaning most of us not living in the States are stucked with an inferior DAC. It's the opposite of sane. I truly find this statement irresponsible and misleading.


 
  
 While we're randomly accusing people of being misleading, we can also _dislike _claims like "upgrading the DAC is only possible by sending back"(sic):
  
 http://schiit.com/products/jotunheim-dac
  


> If you’re an experienced electronics technician or engineer who is familiar with ESD precautions, or work with a good tech, you can choose to have the Jotunheim DAC board sent to you directly, fully tested and protected in an antistatic bag.
> 
> Please note that by selecting this option, you are saying, "Yes, I am, or know, a competent electronics technician who does not need hand-holding for this installation, and I will not allow an inexperienced person to perform the upgrade, since I understand there are no user-serviceable parts inside."


 
  
 HTH.


----------



## Road77

Deleted post.


----------



## Ancipital

road77 said:


> If we are going to ignore prices and features, then anything goes. Let me me try... the MOON Neo 430HA and Chord Dave kick the A20H, NFB-28, and Compass 2's collective butts. How's that for a comparison?


 
  
 Yeah, but the DAVE's amp section is a bit of a gutless creature, especially with playnarz, if we're honest. It's an OK DAC, but benefits from a proper amp. Price is not the only yardstick.


----------



## Tuneslover

My purpose for buying the Jotunheim AMPLIFIER was because I was looking to upgrade my Magni2U with a beefier and better sounding amp. Also I was interested in going the balanced route.

Although the Jot does have a couple of optional features I had no practical purpose for the phono option and I already own 3 Schiit DACs (2 of which are Multibit) so I had no need or desire for another DAC. Besides the Jotunheim and Bifrost MB pairing looks pretty damn good together (better than Magni/Bifrost pairing).


----------



## Selbi

Probably gets asked a lot, but I wanna know: Do I need a Jotunheim when my headphones support no balanced input and are also relatively easy to drive (sub-50 Ohms)? Would I get a significant sound increase over a Schiit Magni 2 bundled with a Fiio E10K line-out as DAC?


----------



## Voxata

selbi said:


> Probably gets asked a lot, but I wanna know: Do I need a Jotunheim when my headphones support no balanced input and are also relatively easy to drive (sub-50 Ohms)? Would I get a significant sound increase over a Schiit Magni 2 bundled with a Fiio E10K line-out as DAC?




Clinch your cheeks and get ready for an experience (depending on your headphones). The Jot is a great upgrade, however I'd get the internal DAC or preferrably Mimby over the Fiio. Don't get me wrong, I like Fiio however this setup is like comparing Big League Chew to Wrigley's pink.


----------



## ZeaviS

Hey guys,
  
 I was wondering how the DAC add-on on the jodie compares to the modi2 uber. I have a modi2 uber and want to get the jodie unupgraded and then get a mimby later on. Would the modi2 uber suffice until I get a mimby? Or should I get the optional DAC?


----------



## Kcharng

Modi Uber and Jot dacs have similar sound signature. Mimby is something else though. 

Sent from my SM-N920C using Tapatalk


----------



## Ancipital

zeavis said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I was wondering how the DAC add-on on the jodie compares to the modi2 uber. I have a modi2 uber and want to get the jodie unupgraded and then get a mimby later on. Would the modi2 uber suffice until I get a mimby? Or should I get the optional DAC?


 
  
 You won't find the internal much of an upgrade. Save your money until you can grab a Mimby.


----------



## slex

Im still wondering at the empty space inside my vanilla jotunheim since i dun need phono & extra dac.

What can be stick into it? Maybe a dac with optical in? Sticking a CCA will be fun.


----------



## MWSVette

slex said:


> Im still wondering at the empty space inside my vanilla jotunheim since i dun need phono & extra dac.
> 
> What can be stick into it? Maybe a dac with optical in? Sticking a CCA will be fun.


 
  
 I could use an extra SE analog input...


----------



## watchnerd

zeavis said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I was wondering how the DAC add-on on the jodie compares to the modi2 uber. I have a modi2 uber and want to get the jodie unupgraded and then get a mimby later on. Would the modi2 uber suffice until I get a mimby? Or should I get the optional DAC?


 
  
 The Jot 2 is balanced, the Modi 2 Uber isn't.
  
 The Modi 2 Uber has more inputs.
  
 If you need the extra inputs, use the Modi 2 Uber.  If you want to move towards an all-balanced system (and if you don't, why get the Jot?), use the Jot DAC.


----------



## MWSVette

watchnerd said:


> The Jot 2 is balanced, the Modi 2 Uber isn't.
> 
> The Modi 2 Uber has more inputs.
> 
> If you need the extra inputs, use the Modi 2 Uber.  If you want to move towards an all-balanced system (and if you don't, why get the Jot?), use the Jot DAC.


 
 All input signals into the Jot whether SE or balanced are balanced at output to the balanced jack on the Jot.


----------



## watchnerd

mwsvette said:


> All input signals into the Jot whether SE or balanced are balanced at output to the balanced jack on the Jot.


 
  
 Sure.
  
 But that's not as good as balanced from the inside the DAC itself, which the Jotunheim, Gungnir, and Yggy can do.


----------



## Voxata

The general consensus is Mimby SE is far beyond the balanced capabilities of the internal DAC though


----------



## watchnerd

voxata said:


> The general consensus is Mimby SE is far beyond the balanced capabilities of the internal DAC though


 
  
 The general consensus is not data.  It is a collection of subjective listening opinions generated underly poorly controlled conditions.  FotM products are a perfect example of that.
  
 Objectively, balanced DACs offer advantage to SE DACs.  This requires no reliance on listening.


----------



## Ancipital

watchnerd said:


> The general consensus is not data.  It is a collection of subjective listening opinions generated underly poorly controlled conditions.  FotM products are a perfect example of that.


 
  
 However, the readily available, painstaking and expensively-produced measurements of both the Jotunheim and Mimby _are_. The difference between SE and balanced in is marginal on the Jotunheim, unless you love several meters of cable run.


----------



## Selbi

voxata said:


> Clinch your cheeks and get ready for an experience (depending on your headphones). The Jot is a great upgrade, however I'd get the internal DAC or preferrably Mimby over the Fiio. Don't get me wrong, I like Fiio however this setup is like comparing Big League Chew to Wrigley's pink.




I got the Fidelio X2, which only has a single 3.5mm plug. I'm asking myself if $399 (+$100 as I likely need the USB extension) is really worth the price if I'm not even gonna use the XLR output.


----------



## watchnerd

selbi said:


> I got the Fidelio X2, which only has a single 3.5mm plug. I'm asking myself if $399 (+$100 as I likely need the USB extension) is really worth the price if I'm not even gonna use the XLR output.


 
  
 I don't know why anyone would buy the Jot if they don't want to move to a balanced system, either on the preamp or the headphone.
  
 The other SE amps Schiit offers put out plenty of power.


----------



## Voxata

Yes, but do yourself a but do yourself a favor and man a cable. Send me a PM if you're looking for quality but also cheap.


----------



## Selbi

watchnerd said:


> I don't know why anyone would buy the Jot if they don't want to move to a balanced system, either on the preamp or the headphone.
> 
> The other SE amps Schiit offers put out plenty of power.




My original question was if the Jotunheim offers a significant sound improvement over my Fiio E10K with a Magni 2, even if I don't use the balanced output. Just in theory.




voxata said:


> Yes, but do yourself a but do yourself a favor and man a cable. Send me a PM if you're looking for quality but also cheap.




Again, my headphones have a single aux input, not two for each side. I cannot make use of the balancing.


----------



## watchnerd

selbi said:


> My original question was if the Jotunheim offers a significant sound improvement over my Fiio E10K with a Magni 2, even if I don't use the balanced output. Just in theory.
> Again, my headphones have a single aux input, not two for each side. I cannot make use of the balancing.


 
  
 My comments remain: why buy balanced if you're not going to use it?


----------



## Selbi

watchnerd said:


> My comments remain: why buy balanced if you're not going to use it?




So does my question remain: does the Jotunheim otherwise improve sound enough to justify buying it?


----------



## watchnerd

selbi said:


> So does my question remain: does the Jotunheim otherwise improve sound enough to justify buying it?


 
  
 Versus what?  For how much money?


----------



## soonercane

selbi said:


> So does my question remain: does the Jotunheim otherwise improve sound enough to justify buying it?


 
 No. In my opinion, there is no reason to buy a Jotunheim if you won't use balanced. If you already have the Magni 2, you'd be far better of getting the Modi 2 MB than a Jot, and it would be cheaper.
  
 Oh, and hello everyone, I guess this is my first post here. Funny, I actually just finished building a balanced cable for my HD650s. I was actually about to come here confused because the balanced cable was just a little bit quieter than the stock SE cable was until I realized that I had it on low gain and that the balanced out on low gain as almost as loud as the SE out on high. I'm much happier with the output for the HD650s now. With SE I found myself turning the knob a bit more than I'd like for quieter stuff like classical. I'm really impressed with this thing now.
  
 Quick backstory, I've actually had the HD650s for about a month and the Jotunheim came in a week ago. This is my first setup of this quality and I just can't pry myself away from listening to everything I own all over again now. I'd say I can't tell you how happy I am to finally have a decent listening setup, but I'm sure you've all experienced the same. Now let's see how long I can stay satisfied with this


----------



## MWSVette

soonercane said:


> No. In my opinion, there is no reason to buy a Jotunheim if you won't use balanced. If you already have the Magni 2, you'd be far better of getting the Modi 2 MB than a Jot, and it would be cheaper.
> 
> Oh, and hello everyone, I guess this is my first post here. Funny, I actually just finished building a balanced cable for my HD650s. I was actually about to come here confused because the balanced cable was just a little bit quieter than the stock SE cable was until I realized that I had it on low gain and that the balanced out on low gain as almost as loud as the SE out on high. I'm much happier with the output for the HD650s now. With SE I found myself turning the knob a bit more than I'd like for quieter stuff like classical. I'm really impressed with this thing now.
> 
> Quick backstory, I've actually had the HD650s for about a month and the Jotunheim came in a week ago. This is my first setup of this quality and I just can't pry myself away from listening to everything I own all over again now. I'd say I can't tell you how happy I am to finally have a decent listening setup, but I'm sure you've all experienced the same. Now let's see how long I can stay satisfied with this


 
  
 Welcome to the club...
  
 The balanced output on the Jot is substantially more powerful than the SE.  If SPL matched there will be little or no difference in sound quality between the two.


----------



## exiges

mikko peltonen said:


> I am really impressed with the specs and reviews of this product. I read all the messages in this discussion last weekend and got very excited. Now I'm waiting for the European supplier to get their hands on new stock so I can order one. Currently I don't have any DACs or amps so I'm intrigued to find out how much of a difference this makes.




I'm in the U.K. And ordered mine directly from Schiit USA, you may want to consider doing that rather than waiting for the EU distributor


----------



## watchnerd

soonercane said:


> No. In my opinion, there is no reason to buy a Jotunheim if you won't use balanced.


 
  
 +1.
  
 If you're SE-only, use a different tool, you get more bang for the buck.


----------



## Ancipital

mwsvette said:


> Welcome to the club...
> 
> The balanced output on the Jot is substantially more powerful than the SE.  If SPL matched there will be little or no difference in sound quality between the two.


 
  
 Doubled slew rate wants to insist otherwise, with a suitably resolving chain.


----------



## Tuneslover

selbi said:


> So does my question remain: does the Jotunheim otherwise improve sound enough to justify buying it?



Not heavens parting better than the Magni2U I had but the Jot (balanced) seems to have shifted my HD650'S and HE500'S into an extra gear or two.


----------



## Mikko Peltonen

exiges said:


> I'm in the U.K. And ordered mine directly from Schiit USA, you may want to consider doing that rather than waiting for the EU distributor


 
 That would be faster but I'd probably need to pay taxes and a huge shipping fee which would make it an expensive buy. Also if the unit was defected, or in case I needed to send it for repairs, I'd need to pay the shipping fees back to the US.


----------



## gmahler2u

Happy New Year


----------



## FLTWS

gmahler2u said:


> Happy New Year


 
  
 Indeed!


----------



## Voxata

I saw a nice increase in clarity, detail, slam and definitely air and soundstage going from the Asgard 2 to Jotunheim. I saw even more gains going balanced. The initial boost was still there. What headphones are you using?


----------



## nicdub

watchnerd said:


> My comments remain: why buy balanced if you're not going to use it?


 
 I think yes, as it is a really good amp regardless, with many different features.  How many people buy an amp that can serve as a pre-amp for powered monitors but never use it for that?  Does that mean you shouldn't buy it, even if it remains an excellent headphone amp?  And with the built-in DAC, you really are getting an end-game product for many and future proofing in case you do buy a balanced cable/headphone.


----------



## Selbi

nicdub said:


> I think yes, as it is a really good amp regardless, with many different features.  How many people buy an amp that can serve as a pre-amp for powered monitors but never use it for that?  Does that mean you shouldn't buy it, even if it remains an excellent headphone amp?  And with the built-in DAC, you really are getting an end-game product for many and future proofing in case you do buy a balanced cable/headphone.




That's more or less the answer I was originally expecting. I'm pretty sure with how many outputs the Jotunheim has, only a fraction of the people owning it actually use every single one of them.

Therefore I was wondering if getting the Jot would give me a significant sound improvement already, even if it's just with a standard quarter inch jack right now.

I could always switch to balanced once I upgrade my headphones to a pair that supports it.


----------



## nicdub

selbi said:


> That's more or less the answer I was originally expecting. I'm pretty sure with how many outputs the Jotunheim has, only a fraction of the people owning it actually use every single one of them.
> 
> Therefore I was wondering if getting the Jot would give me a significant sound improvement already, even if it's just with a standard quarter inch jack right now.
> 
> I could always switch to balanced once I upgrade my headphones to a pair that supports it.


 
 I haven't head the Magni 2, but the X2 is an easily driven 'phone, and as such, my sense is the Jot wouldn't provide you with $4-500 worth of extra music pleasure.  I have found a lot of amps in this price range may sound different, but not always significantly better in some extraordinary way, but that's just my experience.  I think you would be better off getting a better headphone before spending that much on the amp.  
  
 However, Schiit does have a nice return policy, so you could try it out yourself and return it (with a restocking fee) if you don't like it.


----------



## Ancipital

selbi said:


> That's more or less the answer I was originally expecting. I'm pretty sure with how many outputs the Jotunheim has, only a fraction of the people owning it actually use every single one of them.
> 
> Therefore I was wondering if getting the Jot would give me a significant sound improvement already, even if it's just with a standard quarter inch jack right now.
> 
> I could always switch to balanced once I upgrade my headphones to a pair that supports it.


 
  
 Yes, of course it will. It has great noise and distortion performance, and nice fast slew rate, and is relatively powerful, even over SE. From any other manufacturer, it would be in a larger, heavier box and cost 3x as much. It bears very little resemblance to any of the Magnis, fear not.
  
 While you may be using phones designed to be driven by almost anything, you probably won't always. Even easier to drive headphones will sound better from a faster, cleaner amp in the meantime, too. X2 doesn't scale much with better gear, but your listening is about your whole chain, DAC, amp and transducers. As an amp, the Jot is a killer at its price point. The world won't end if you don't own one, but it's one of the easier "no brainer" choices out there.


----------



## mwhals

I narrowed my choice to a Mjolnir 2 or Jotunheim to pair with a Gumby. Any thoughts?


----------



## theveterans

mwhals said:


> I narrowed my choice to a Mjolnir 2 or Jotunheim to pair with a Gumby. Any thoughts?


 
  
 If your setup is 100% balanced and you like tube's ability to widen the soundstage = Mjolnir 2, but if you want a forward sounding signature = Jot.


----------



## mwhals

theveterans said:


> If your setup is 100% balanced and you like tube's ability to widen the soundstage = Mjolnir 2, but if you want a forward sounding signature = Jot.




Thanks. With Schiit allowing product returns without a fee if changing to a higher model, the Jotunheim probably is the best option.


----------



## FLTWS

mwhals said:


> Thanks. With Schiit allowing product returns without a fee if changing to a higher model, the Jotunheim probably is the best option.


 
  
 I find my Jot goes deeper with more authority than my MJ2 (regardless of tube type I install). The slight forwardness of the Jot in comparison can/does make it sound a tad brighter, so depending on the headphones you use/will use....


----------



## mwhals

fltws said:


> I find my Jot goes deeper with more authority than my MJ2 (regardless of tube type I install). The slight forwardness of the Jot in comparison can/does make it sound a tad brighter, so depending on the headphones you use/will use....




I have a ZMF Ori right now with ZMF Atticus and Eikon headphones preordered.


----------



## EtRec

This is my first post. I have the Jotunheim with DAC . My setup is Jotunheim preamp to a Audioengine N22 Amp>P4 Passive Bamboo speakers + Subwoofer. All flac.files and using Sennheiser HD 650.....Have tried the setup with a Bitfrost Multibit. I'm not an audiophile, just love music. Mostly Jazz but not only. I'm really enjoying this setup. Saw a big improvement from the Audioengine D1 dac to the Jotunheim. Did I see a big improvement from the Jotunheim internal DAC to the Bitfrost Multibit, not much . Do I wish I had better speakers...yes other then that I really like the Jotunheim with internal DAC. PS Doesn't it bother anyone that the Bitfrost Multibit is 16bit?


----------



## mwhals

etrec said:


> This is my first post. I have the Jotunheim with DAC . My setup is Jotunheim preamp to a Audioengine N22 Amp>P4 Passive Bamboo speakers + Subwoofer. All flac.files and using Sennheiser HD 650.....Have tried the setup with a Bitfrost Multibit. I'm not an audiophile, just love music. Mostly Jazz but not only. I'm really enjoying this setup. Saw a big improvement from the Audioengine D1 dac to the Jotunheim. Did I see a big improvement from the Jotunheim internal DAC to the Bitfrost Multibit, not much . Do I wish I had better speakers...yes other then that I really like the Jotunheim with internal DAC. PS Doesn't it bother anyone that the Bitfrost Multibit is 16bit?




Did you let the Bifrost Multibit warm up for 24 or more hours before listening? The Multibit dacs need a burn in to sound their best. After the first time, they do not need as long, but they still need to be at operating temperature. It is best to leave Multibit dacs on 24/7.


----------



## EtRec

yes ..I let both the Jotunheim and Bimby run for 3 days  playing from foobar to my HD650. I respect others saying how much better the Bimby is to the internal Jot DAC, but other then having to lower and raise the volume on the Jot when I switched back and forth, the internal DAC held it's own. The forward nature of the Jotunheim remained either way. It's something I'm beginning to get used to and enjoy after the more muddled Audioengine D1. Do you know if the Jot's internal DAC x 2 is 32bit? Thinking of sending the Bitfrost back and waiting for Schitt's next innovation. Maybe an affordable 21bit multibit option


----------



## mwhals

Per Schiit's website, the Jotunheim DAC is 24 bit with two AK4490 dac chips.


----------



## Smithington

etrec said:


> ... PS Doesn't it bother anyone that the Bitfrost Multibit is 16bit?




Interesting question. Do many people genuinely have higher bit rate files that they've bought? Most people I know (including myself) are ripping CD still, so to them I imagine not. 

Serious side question - do many people buy pop / rock in high resolution?


----------



## Voxata

I mostly use 400i, and the change was very evident when I switched to Modi Multibit.. I disliked the 4490 on the Jot as it seemed to have bloom in the lower areas. Symbols, and especially gunfire in games changed drastically. From there it's been a smooth experience. Don't think I'll be switching for a while (ya know, especially if I stay away from schiits website!)

I think Schiit should take a crack at a DAP.


----------



## EtRec

Not exactly sure what you mean by "bloom". Don't play games only music. From the website it seems the none-multibit Bitfrost is using the same 4490 chip albeit only one, as the Jot, and it's 32bit . Most of my flac files are EAC ripped from CD...does that come to 16bit....Don't really know.


----------



## mwhals

etrec said:


> Not exactly sure what you mean by "bloom". Don't play games only music. From the website it seems the none-multibit Bitfrost is using the same 4490 chip albeit only one, as the Jot, and it's 32bit . Most of my flac files are EAC ripped from CD...does that come to 16bit....Don't really know.




Cds rip to 16 /44.1.


----------



## EtRec

Is that why going into Windows 7 ContolPanal>Sound>Schitt it defaults to 16bit. Does changing it to 24bit 96000hz manually have any affect. Can't hear any.


----------



## Selbi

etrec said:


> Is that why going into Windows 7 ContolPanal>Sound>Schitt it defaults to 16bit. Does changing it to 24bit 96000hz manually have any affect. Can't hear any.




If your source files aren't encoded in such a bitrate, then obviously no.


----------



## EtRec

Thanks everyone who posted replies. I am so amazed that so few people liked the internal jot DAC. I just unpacked the Bitfrost Multibit for another listen before I send it back tomorrow. I originally had the ModiMultibit but returned it because everytime I touched the Modi housing it would disconnect from windows until I unplugged and replugged the USB cable. Guess I have a static problem, though no such problem with my Jot or Bitfrost. Is there anyone out there who prefers the 24bit internal dac to the 16bit Modi or Bitfrost Multi?


----------



## yage

selbi said:


> If your source files aren't encoded in such a bitrate, then obviously no.




Note that if the audio is passing though the Windows mixer, setting the sampling rate to a different value than the source material will cause the OS to resample the signal to that rate. If you're using foobar with ASIO output, you're bypassing all this and getting 'bit perfect' playback.


----------



## watchnerd

etrec said:


> Thanks everyone who posted replies. I am so amazed that so few people liked the internal jot DAC. I just unpacked the Bitfrost Multibit for another listen before I send it back tomorrow. I originally had the ModiMultibit but returned it because everytime I touched the Modi housing it would disconnect from windows until I unplugged and replugged the USB cable. Guess I have a static problem, though no such problem with my Jot or Bitfrost. Is there anyone out there who prefers the 24bit internal dac to the 16bit Modi or Bitfrost Multi?


 
  
 Audiophools are trend-following lemmings.  
  
 Even though it is a balanced DAC for an absurdly low price, it doesn't have enough cool buzzwords.


----------



## EtRec

I once had the asio driver installed..Remember problems (drivers for sound and video seem to be a problem for Windows 7 in general) I guess I need to install the asio driver for foobar to run through it...probably a stupid ?


----------



## EtRec

watchnerd said:


> Audiophools are trend-following lemmings.
> 
> Even though it is a balanced DAC for an absurdly low price, it doesn't have enough cool buzzwords.


 

 Does that mean you have heard the internal dac . I must admit the Bimby sounds stronger and more, maybe resolved, (probably due to the internal DAC being USB powered), but nothing a few degrees to the right on the Jot volume knob doesn't seem to fix.


----------



## Voxata

Excuse me, I had a 4490 Bifrost. It made voices bassy on my home theatre setup and I didn't find it a great fit for the Jot. Just my experience YMMV. I liked it with the Asgard2 though.


----------



## EtRec

I'm going to say it...sitting here safe behind a computer screen..no throwing tomatoes please. The internal balanced 24 bit Jot DAC sounds great to me. And yes, I have a very few 24bit Jazz and Classical Flac files , that my anal retentive personality, it bothers  knowing that the Modi and Bitfrost 16bit Multibit  are throwing out and re-sampling bits, though I can't hear the difference.


----------



## mwhals

etrec said:


> I'm going to say it...sitting here safe behind a computer screen..no throwing tomatoes please. The internal balanced 24 bit Jot DAC sounds great to me. And yes, I have a very few 24bit Jazz and Classical Flac files , that my anal retentive personality, it bothers  knowing that the Modi and Bitfrost 16bit Multibit  are throwing out and re-sampling bits, though I can't hear the difference.




Count yourself lucky. Not hearing a difference means you will save a lot of money.


----------



## watchnerd

etrec said:


> that my anal retentive personality, it bothers  knowing that the Modi and Bitfrost 16bit Multibit  are throwing out and re-sampling bits, though I can't hear the difference.


 
  
 Don't let it bother you.  The implementation is more important than the specific DAC chip.  And don't get freaked out by theoretical objections to DS -- the reality is that the vast majority of ADCs on the market, used in recording genres of all types, use sigma-delta.  Doing the same process in reverse does not amount to insanity.
  
 A good DAC is a good DAC, don't worry about the architecture.


----------



## EtRec

Finally, before I go back to enjoying music and my glass of wine...to my ears, never heard expensive equipment, yes the BitfrostMultibit sounds the stronger dac. Stronger or more present are the only words I have to describe it, but the internal dac of the Jot will do me fine, until I get the urge to spend days researching and browsing this site  to satisfy some new juke in my head. Thanks to all for your replies


----------



## Mr Rick

etrec said:


> Thanks everyone who posted replies. I am so amazed that so few people liked the internal jot DAC. I just unpacked the Bitfrost Multibit for another listen before I send it back tomorrow. I originally had the ModiMultibit but returned it because everytime I touched the Modi housing it would disconnect from windows until I unplugged and replugged the USB cable. Guess I have a static problem, though no such problem with my Jot or Bitfrost. Is there anyone out there who prefers the 24bit internal dac to the 16bit Modi or Bitfrost Multi?


 
  
 As I've said before, I believe that the Jot / Dac would be more highly regarded and "sound better" if the price were $2500.00 instead of $500.00.


----------



## mwhals

mr rick said:


> As I've said before, I believe that the Jot / Dac would be more highly regarded and "sound better" if the price were $2500.00 instead of $500.00.




Shhhh. Don't give Schiit any ideas.


----------



## EtRec

Thanks Mr Rick...there are very few things that I feel I paid a fair price for...The wine I'm drinking, the music I'm listening to, my Brompton bicycle and the Jotunhiem with internal DAC are 4 of them..... Great product....love it


----------



## Ancipital

etrec said:


> Thanks Mr Rick...there are very few things that I feel I paid a fair price for...The wine I'm drinking, the music I'm listening to, my Brompton bicycle and the Jotunhiem with internal DAC are 4 of them..... Great product....love it


 
  
 Would that Brompton took Schiit's view on pricing


----------



## wasupdog

mr rick said:


> As I've said before, I believe that the Jot / Dac would be more highly regarded and "sound better" if the price were $2500.00 instead of $500.00.


 

 they should pull the audiophool bit where it's a massive full size component case and when you open it the thing is like 80% air.


----------



## CyanEide

Considering getting this for my Sennheiser HD650s. Would it be a good pairing?


----------



## CarlosUnchained

smithington said:


> Interesting question. Do many people genuinely have higher bit rate files that they've bought? Most people I know (including myself) are ripping CD still, so to them I imagine not.
> 
> Serious side question - do many people buy pop / rock in high resolution?


 
  
 Subgenres, like progressive rock or stoner rock, yes. I like bandcamp to do so, once you buy it offers unlimited streaming of the bands and download high resolution files. No need for labels, just the band and you.


----------



## olor1n

mr rick said:


> etrec said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks everyone who posted replies. I am so amazed that so few people liked the internal jot DAC. I just unpacked the Bitfrost Multibit for another listen before I send it back tomorrow. I originally had the ModiMultibit but returned it because everytime I touched the Modi housing it would disconnect from windows until I unplugged and replugged the USB cable. Guess I have a static problem, though no such problem with my Jot or Bitfrost. Is there anyone out there who prefers the 24bit internal dac to the 16bit Modi or Bitfrost Multi?
> ...


 

 I've "down-sized" to just a Jotunheim with internal dac and an iPad mini 2 streaming Spotify premium. Not a bad place to slum it:


----------



## MightyT

Happy with the sound but unhappy with the pre-out feature pre-out does not turn off when headphone is plugged.
  
 Little issue with windows 10 driver but somehow works with windows 7~8 driver on windows 10


----------



## mwhals

mightyt said:


> Happy with the sound but unhappy with the pre-out feature pre-out does not turn off when headphone is plugged.
> 
> Little issue with windows 10 driver but somehow works with windows 7~8 driver on windows 10




Get a Schiit Sys and use it on your output line to turn down the volume to zero or switch it to the non occupied input to silence the output.


----------



## Ancipital

mightyt said:


> Happy with the sound but unhappy with the pre-out feature pre-out does not turn off when headphone is plugged.
> 
> Little issue with windows 10 driver but somehow works with windows 7~8 driver on windows 10


 
  
 This has been explained a few times. When you have an XLR out, it can't sense if anything is plugged into it, as reliable switched four pin XLR sockets aren't a thing. You can't just make assumptions on the basis of the 1/4 inch jack alone, either, as that makes the behavior a bit confusing.


----------



## HPLobster

Hi there,
  
  
 After saving some money in 2016 I am now contemplating to seriously upgrade my headphone-rig and after sorting through a lot of options I kind of decided to go with the all-in-one dac/amp, full-(future-proof)functionality and connectivity plus fully balanced - route here. It seems to me that for the same kind of money I will not be able to get the same quality-package when going separately (e.g. a Burson Soloist sl mkii + Bimby - combo = lack of balanced-out etc...) 
  
 So my question now is: Next to the Schiit *Jotunheim*, the *Oppo HA-1* and also the *Questyle cma600i *seem VERY appealing, are the latter two worth the extra money soundquality-wise? Was anyone able to directly compare at least two of them? I am not new to the hobby and know about diminishing returns, still I need to know how noticable the SQ-difference could be and I am not able to A/B them over here in Germany anytime soon...
 I would use the device with a Focal Elear and/or a Senn HD 800s.
  
 Any opinions would be much appreciated.


----------



## patton

After spending shy of $700 on a Jot and Mimby I am very disappointed to learn I need to spend another $50+ for a SYS to avoid unplugging/plugging in my Jot preamps every time I want to toggle headphones/speakers. Plus it being one more box on my desk. Schiit has the technology, they're selling the SYS which does just that with a push of a button, they just didnt include it with the Jot or Mimby. I cant help but wonder if there is a better all around option for cheaper that would power my HD650s and toggle to my powered 2.1. while I'm in my return period.


----------



## theveterans

patton said:


> After spending shy of $700 on a Jot and Mimby I am very disappointed to learn I need to spend another $50+ for a SYS to avoid unplugging/plugging in my Jot preamps every time I want to toggle headphones/speakers. Schiit has the technology, they're selling the SYS which does just that with a push of a button, they just didnt include it with the Jot or Mimby. I cant help but wonder if there is a better all around option for cheaper that would power my HD650s and toggle to my powered 2.1. while I'm in my return period.


 
  
 It's the nature of balanced topology where there's not a way to mute the preamps unlike pure SE such as Asgard 2 or Lyr 2. You also can't mute the preamps with the Mjolnir 2 due to balanced topology


----------



## cskippy

@patton I was in the same boat as you until I threw my Speakers and Sub on a separate power strip that I can toggle easily with my foot.  Problem solved!


----------



## theveterans

cskippy said:


> @patton I was in the same boat as you until I threw my Speakers and Sub on a separate power strip that I can toggle easily with my foot.  Problem solved!


 
  
 You didn't have grounding issues with this or is the power strip connected to the main power strip?


----------



## potterma

carlosunchained said:


> Subgenres, like progressive rock or stoner rock, yes. I like bandcamp to do so, once you buy it offers unlimited streaming of the bands and download high resolution files. No need for labels, just the band and you.


 

 Really?  High Res on bandcamp?  Best I've found so far is 16/44.1 stuff.  Got any examples of high res on BC?  TIA


----------



## cskippy

theveterans said:


> You didn't have grounding issues with this or is the power strip connected to the main power strip?


 
 I had them on the same outlet.  It's generally not a good idea to daisy chain power strips.


----------



## CarlosUnchained

potterma said:


> Really?  High Res on bandcamp?  Best I've found so far is 16/44.1 stuff.  Got any examples of high res on BC?  TIA


 

 Well yeah, 16/44.1 is the best I could find too. Not that high res, sorry. The formats and weight of files confused me.


----------



## YungFrieza

I was thinking of doing something but am unsure if it would mess something up, I heard the Jot sounds bright with the HD-800's, so I wanted to add a tube buffer but still have the integrated balanced DAC. I was thinking of using the DAC, using the Pre-outs into the buffer, and from the buffer back into the Jot. Would this work or would it cause problems? Thanks.


----------



## cskippy

With that configuration neither would work since each one is a separate input. Select internal DAC, sends to pre out but you're listening to just DAC output to Jot amp. If you switch to line input, where tube buffer would return, you wont hear anything since the tube buffer isn't recieving any sound. Hope this makes sense.


----------



## mwhals

cskippy said:


> I had them on the same outlet.  It's generally not a good idea to daisy chain power strips.




True about not Daisy chaining power strips. I would think two separate outlets on the same circuit breaker would also be OK. Is this right or am I mistaken?


----------



## cskippy

Yup not an issue.


----------



## lenroot77

Just received a Jot yesterday and I can see what all the fuss is about. Really nice piece of gear! It's a keeper... for now 

Have to say the internal Dac is decent enough too. Wasn't expecting it to sound as good as it does.


----------



## MWSVette

lenroot77 said:


> Just received a Jot yesterday and I can see what all the fuss is about. Really nice piece of gear! It's a keeper... for now
> 
> Have to say the internal Dac is decent enough too. Wasn't expecting it to sound as good as it does.


 
  
 Its a great DAC for $100.00.
  
 Too many naysayers who have never heard the DAC in the Jot.
  
 Welcome to the Jot club...


----------



## YungFrieza

cskippy said:


> With that configuration neither would work since each one is a separate input. Select internal DAC, sends to pre out but you're listening to just DAC output to Jot amp. If you switch to line input, where tube buffer would return, you wont hear anything since the tube buffer isn't recieving any sound. Hope this makes sense.



Thanks! I'll just use an external DAC then with the buffer.


----------



## sovereign

> STATUS: Backordered.  Orders placed today are expected to ship the week of February 13, 2017.


 
  
 Damn.


----------



## Voxata

A minor gripe for an otherwise A+ amp.


----------



## sovereign

Was ready to order yesterday, but kept on _reading and reading_ about it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I had no idea their supply chain would take a dump like this, especially since they have kept up with production since its introduction and made it through the holidays with stock left.


----------



## wasupdog

jot internal is a good dac and convenient.  the mimby is better though if you have the extra cash and space.


----------



## mwhals

sovereign said:


> Damn.




Ugh! Maybe I just need to order a Mjolnir 2 then!


----------



## Kenneth Tang

lenroot77 said:


> Just received a Jot yesterday and I can see what all the fuss is about. Really nice piece of gear! It's a keeper... for now
> 
> Have to say the internal Dac is decent enough too. Wasn't expecting it to sound as good as it does.


 
  
 I have made the a order for Jot+DAC on 2nd Jan, still not received any shipment details. Unlucky it has been backordered today, again! ..... Not sure if they have the stock to be shipped to me....


----------



## olor1n

wasupdog said:


> jot internal is a good dac and convenient.  the mimby is better though if you have the extra cash and space.


 
  
 The multibit Modi is very affordable but I'd rather a multibit Gungnir tier, fully balanced dac inside a Jotunheim sized case. Until that happens I'm quite content with the convenience and surprising excellence of the Jotunheim's internal dac.


----------



## patton

For those with the internal amp, do you use the preamp out? How do you avoid sound coming through your speakers when you need to be using your headphones? I went with the Mimby because of the positive reviews and the hope itd give me more control over my preamp outs.


----------



## olor1n

patton said:


> For those with the internal amp, do you use the preamp out? How do you avoid sound coming through your speakers when you need to be using your headphones? I went with the Mimby because of the positive reviews and the hope itd give me more control over my preamp outs.


 

 Yes. I turn my powered speakers off by extending my arm and reaching behind the speaker. Sounds hard, but I don't even have to get out of my chair!


----------



## franzdom

patton said:


> For those with the internal amp, do you use the preamp out? How do you avoid sound coming through your speakers when you need to be using your headphones? I went with the Mimby because of the positive reviews and the hope itd give me more control over my preamp outs.


 
  
 I put speakers on a remote controlled outlet.


----------



## MWSVette

franzdom said:


> I put speakers on a remote controlled outlet.


 
 That is the best option I found too...


----------



## Tuneslover

mwhals said:


> Get a Schiit Sys and use it on your output line to turn down the volume to zero or switch it to the non occupied input to silence the output.




I decided to connect a SYS this way yesterday. I leave it set to feed the powered speakers (to supply the TV with audio) so that it's a non issue for my wife as she doesn't listen to headphones at all. When I want to listen headphones it's an easy push on the selector button on the SYS for me.


----------



## chenszhanx

olor1n said:


> The multibit Modi is very affordable but I'd rather a multibit Gungnir tier, fully balanced dac inside a Jotunheim sized case. Until that happens I'm quite content with the convenience and surprising excellence of the Jotunheim's internal dac.


 
 Did you mean bifrost?


----------



## aak57

Got my Jot in yesterday, pretty glad I made the purchase.  I liked my HD6XX (HD650) before on my M9XX, but using the M9XX as a DAC and Jot as the amp has stepped it up more than I was expecting.  I'm horrid at describing things so I'll just say it sounds "fuller" than before.  I'm also getting a balanced cable so I'm curious if I'll notice any difference (getting it partially for the cable's looks so even if I don't notice anything, not much of a loss).
  
 I don't actually plan to keep the M9XX though; was gonna buy a Modi Multibit but seeing that Schiit has something new in the pipeline I'll wait to see what that is, since if it's some kind of Bifrost update I'll go for that instead.
  
 Also I knew Jot was gonna be bigger than the M9XX or my Modi/Magni, but it still surprised me quite a bit when I sat them together.  This thing is fairly hefty, can't even imagine how Ragnarok and the like compare.


----------



## Kenneth Tang

kenneth tang said:


> I have made the a order for Jot+DAC on 2nd Jan, still not received any shipment details. Unlucky it has been backordered today, again! ..... Not sure if they have the stock to be shipped to me....


 
 Got the reply from schiit.... ****! no stock for me! So disappointed and frustrated for the long waiting. I am asking to have my money back first, maybe I will change my mind to buying a chord mojo.... feel so sorry.....


----------



## franzdom

aak57 said:


> Got my Jot in yesterday, pretty glad I made the purchase.  I liked my HD6XX (HD650) before on my M9XX, but using the M9XX as a DAC and Jot as the amp has stepped it up more than I was expecting.  I'm horrid at describing things so I'll just say it sounds "fuller" than before.  I'm also getting a balanced cable so I'm curious if I'll notice any difference (getting it partially for the cable's looks so even if I don't notice anything, not much of a loss).
> 
> I don't actually plan to keep the M9XX though; was gonna buy a Modi Multibit but seeing that Schiit has something new in the pipeline I'll wait to see what that is, since if it's some kind of Bifrost update I'll go for that instead.
> 
> Also I knew Jot was gonna be bigger than the M9XX or my Modi/Magni, but it still surprised me quite a bit when I sat them together.  This thing is fairly hefty, can't even imagine how Ragnarok and the like compare.


 
  
 Size wise Ragnarok is to Jotunheim as Jotunheim is to Magni


----------



## dr cornelius

Received my Jotinheim yesterday - IMO worth the wait if you’re in the back-order queue...


----------



## watchnerd

kenneth tang said:


> Got the reply from schiit.... ****! no stock for me! So disappointed and frustrated for the long waiting. I am asking to have my money back first, maybe I will change my mind to buying a chord mojo.... feel so sorry.....


 
  
 It's been 3 days.
  
 Presumably one keeps products for quite some time.  
  
 If you decided that Jotunheim was right for you, how has that changed in the last 3 days?


----------



## Vigrith

kenneth tang said:


> Got the reply from schiit.... ****! no stock for me! So disappointed and frustrated for the long waiting. I am asking to have my money back first, maybe I will change my mind to buying a chord mojo.... feel so sorry.....


 

 Yea God forbid someone has to wait over three whole days to receive a highly coveted device, how dare they.
  
 Schiit Europe hasn't had Jotunheim (amp only) and MJ2 stock in around a month and a half. Other amp designers/manufacturers (EC, DNA, Feliks just to name a few) have like 4 to 10 months queues for their products. Maybe you should focus on the fact that you have a chance to buy an incredible balanced amp for $400 within a timely fashion rather than be upset that there's been no stock for 3 days to the point where you ponder buying a Mojo instead - which is a fantastic device in its own right but COMPLETELY different from the Jotunheim, both in character as well as functionality.


----------



## lenroot77

kenneth tang said:


> Got the reply from schiit.... ****! no stock for me! So disappointed and frustrated for the long waiting. I am asking to have my money back first, maybe I will change my mind to buying a chord mojo.... feel so sorry.....




I just picked one up on the classifieds. There were a few others listed too. I'd just go that route. Save a few bucks and have it much quicker.


----------



## sovereign

vigrith said:


> Yea God forbid someone has to wait over three whole days to receive a highly coveted device, how dare they.
> 
> Schiit Europe hasn't had Jotunheim (amp only) and MJ2 stock in around a month and a half. Other amp designers/manufacturers (EC, DNA, Feliks just to name a few) have like 4 to 10 months queues for their products. Maybe you should focus on the fact that you have a chance to buy an incredible balanced amp for $400 within a timely fashion rather than be upset that there's been no stock for 3 days to the point where you ponder buying a Mojo instead - which is a fantastic device in its own right but COMPLETELY different from the Jotunheim, both in character as well as functionality.




He placed an order when the site said they were in stock and would ship this week, and now he has found out it will be back ordered for almost 6 weeks. At least that is how I understand it.


----------



## Vigrith

sovereign said:


> He placed an order when the site said they were in stock and would ship this week, and now he has found out it will be back ordered for almost 6 weeks. At least that is how I understand it.


 
  
 What I read was "I placed an order 2nd Jan", which was 3 days ago and I haven't seen anything regarding a 6 week backorder, hence my comment. If that's the case then that is unfortunate yea.


----------



## MWSVette

vigrith said:


> What I read was "I placed an order 2nd Jan", which was 3 days ago and I haven't seen anything regarding a 6 week backorder, hence my comment. If that's the case then that is unfortunate yea.


 
 From the Schitt site on the Jotunheim;
  
*STATUS: Backordered.  Orders placed today are expected to ship the week of February 13, 2017.*


----------



## jimmers

mwsvette said:


> From the Schitt site on the Jotunheim;
> 
> *STATUS: Backordered.  Orders placed today are expected to ship the week of February 13, 2017.*


 
 Do I have to heat this to make it visible?


----------



## MWSVette

jimmers said:


> Do I have to heat this to make it visible?


 
  
 You need to blow on it... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  
 Edit; fixed


----------



## Vigrith

mwsvette said:


> From the Schitt site on the Jotunheim;
> 
> *STATUS: Backordered.  Orders placed today are expected to ship the week of February 13, 2017.*


 
  
 Ah, that is unfortunate then yea, yikes. I wonder how long it'll take for Schiit Europe to get some stock in then, no wonder both the Dutch as well as the UK stores have been out of stock for over a month. Still, much less of a wait time than many other businesses.


----------



## Clemmaster

Chinese new New year, evidently.


----------



## patton

Whats the details, if any,  on the new Schiit product in the works?


----------



## Mr Rick

patton said:


> Whats the details, if any,  on the new Schiit product in the works?


 
  
 Go here and look for Jason's end of the year review.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/701900/schiit-happened-the-story-of-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up


----------



## franzdom

jimmers said:


> Do I have to heat this to make it visible?


 
  
 You have to let it reach thermal equilibrium


----------



## Kenneth Tang

vigrith said:


> Ah, that is unfortunate then yea, yikes. I wonder how long it'll take for Schiit Europe to get some stock in then, no wonder both the Dutch as well as the UK stores have been out of stock for over a month. Still, much less of a wait time than many other businesses.


 
  
 ar... I am sorry for my poor presentations as some of you might getting me wrong. English is not my native language.
  
 I have been waiting Jotunheim for quite a while, it has been low-stock or backordered since Nov, then I finally noticed it is in-stocked again at the end of Dec. I immediately placed an order just after my vacation. Unlucky it is backordered again and asking me to wait for 6 weeks more (or even more).... Well, you may suggest me to queue at the backorder list, but this is not my practice. I prefer to pay and then play rather than paid to queue. 
  
 Honestly, I didn't try neither Jotunheim nor mojo for my Elear. So I really can not tell which one sounds better for me. I pulled my trigger on jotunheim simply because I don't need a portable amp for Elear (Elear is opened design and obviously for indoor use). Thanks to schiit and I have my money returned (actually they just hold my credit limit and didn't charge me yet). I still not make up my mind what to do next, my city has no way to give jotunheim a try to persuade me waiting again...  
  
 No offence. I was impressed by schiit's mission and vision because I am an electronic engineer too, I fully understand why backorder and low stock happens. Just NO LUCK between me and schiit products at this moment.
 Enjoy listening.


----------



## patton

Only comment I saw from Jason indicated something that was not a product, coming in 2017. I dont see how withholding a dac purchase makes sense with that comment.


----------



## tamleo

I hope those are not entry level products because I just bought a bunch of Schiit stuffs for re-selling


----------



## watchnerd

patton said:


> Only comment I saw from Jason indicated something that was not a product, coming in 2017. I dont see how withholding a dac purchase makes sense with that comment.


 
  
 Something that is not a product?
  
 They're going to be starting a clothing lines?
  
 Making an album?
  
 Staging a Broadway show?


----------



## Boban85

Maybe some new modules or upgrade options for existing products...


----------



## CarlosUnchained

boban85 said:


> Maybe some new modules or upgrade options for existing products...


 

 Multi Bit card for the Jot?


----------



## DougD

patton said:


> Only comment I saw from Jason indicated something that was not a product, coming in 2017. I dont see how withholding a dac purchase makes sense with that comment.


 
  
 I hope the 2017 "not a product" isn't the long-awaited launch of their audiophile line of perfumes. Despite Jason & Mike's track record of innovation, I just don't think they should go there.


----------



## watchnerd

dougd said:


> I hope the 2017 "not a product" isn't the long-awaited launch of their audiophile line of perfumes. Despite Jason & Mike's track record of innovation, I just don't think they should go there.


 
  
 Nobody wants to smell like an audiophile.


----------



## FLTWS

Audiophile Cologne: "O de Lectron". The acrid smell of melting plastic jacketing over copper /or silver wires.


----------



## oldschool

In the EU, Joti's been on backorder for a month and will continue so for a few more weeks, according to the distributor


----------



## dinesh18892

I am planning to get Jot along with LCD X. Any thoughts?


----------



## watchnerd

dinesh18892 said:


> I am planning to get Jot along with LCD X. Any thoughts?


 
  
 Any thoughts?
  
 I like pie!


----------



## dinesh18892

watchnerd said:


> Any thoughts?
> 
> I like pie!


 
 I think I posted in a bakery section. Gotta move to some headphones forum.


----------



## CarlosUnchained

dinesh18892 said:


> I am planning to get Jot along with LCD X. Any thoughts?


 

 I'm planning to get that combo as well. I demoed the X's through a Deckard though, but it sounds amazing!
  
 I may be going for de first version of the X's with a thicker diaphragm. I was told that the Ember II is a great pairing as well.


----------



## dinesh18892

carlosunchained said:


> I'm planning to get that combo as well. I demoed the X's through a Deckard though, but it sounds amazing!
> 
> I may be going for de first version of the X's with a thicker diaphragm. I was told that the Ember II is a great pairing as well.


 
 Finally something sensible 
 I have demoed the whole LCD line and liked X the best I demoed it with my own amp Canor TP10 and it was great but unfortunately I had to sell my whole equipment. Now I am back again in market. I am interested in Jot because of balanced output. On Monday I have an appointment for the demo of LCD X. Then I will finally decide. Got no idea about sound of Jot though. Online reviews are mixed bag.


----------



## CarlosUnchained

dinesh18892 said:


> Finally something sensible
> I have demoed the whole LCD line and liked X the best I demoed it with my own amp Canor TP10 and it was great but unfortunately I had to sell my whole equipment. Now I am back again in market. I am interested in Jot because of balanced output. On Monday I have an appointment for the demo of LCD X. Then I will finally decide. Got no idea about sound of Jot though. Online reviews are mixed bag.


 

 I didn't read anything specific about X's with the Jot, but I think it can't be a bad pairing. I was also thinking getting Mimby + Ember II. But Jot has balanced out and preouts, I like its versatility.
  
 However I don't think the X's need the power of the balanced Jot to shine, they are very efficient.


----------



## DavidA

dinesh18892 said:


> I am planning to get Jot along with LCD X. Any thoughts?


 
 Haven't tried a Jot yet but did try the whole LCD line, X is okay but not worth the premium over the 2 IMO unless you are using lower powered gear or just don't want to deal with DACs and amps then its a great headphone in that situation.  Like @CarlosUnchained noted I think the Jot is overkill for the X unless you have other less efficient headphones that you will be using with the Jot.
  
  


carlosunchained said:


> I didn't read anything specific about X's with the Jot, but I think it can't be a bad pairing. I was also thinking getting Mimby + Ember II. But Jot has balanced out and preouts, I like its versatility.
> 
> However I don't think the X's need the power of the balanced Jot to shine, they are very efficient.


 
 I have a Bimby and Ember, great combo


----------



## dinesh18892

carlosunchained said:


> I didn't read anything specific about X's with the Jot, but I think it can't be a bad pairing. I was also thinking getting Mimby + Ember II. But Jot has balanced out and preouts, I like its versatility.
> 
> However I don't think the X's need the power of the balanced Jot to shine, they are very efficient.


 
 Balanced out is the only thing that got in interested in Jot. I have LG V10 for the moment. I have to read about Ember ii as I never heard about it.


----------



## dinesh18892

davida said:


> Haven't tried a Jot yet but did try the whole LCD line, X is okay but not worth the premium over the 2 IMO unless you are using lower powered gear or just don't want to deal with DACs and amps then its a great headphone in that situation.  Like @CarlosUnchained noted I think the Jot is overkill for the X unless you have other less efficient headphones that you will be using with the Jot.
> 
> 
> I have a Bimby and Ember, great combo


 
 There is an offer going on and I am LCD 2 and X are basically at the same price at the moment so I am inclined towards X. I am planning to grab another pair also (not decided yet) as I had to sell everything to fund my studies now am back on track lol. Most probably I will get back my 650s or even 600s.


----------



## CarlosUnchained

dinesh18892 said:


> There is an offer going on and I am LCD 2 and X are basically at the same price at the moment so I am inclined towards X. I am planning to grab another pair also (not decided yet) as I had to sell everything to fund my studies now am back on track lol. Most probably I will get back my 650s or even 600s.


 

 May I ask which offer? New?


----------



## dinesh18892

carlosunchained said:


> May I ask which offer? New?


 
 This is not an offer actually if you think of it as an international deal. It is for $2000 NZD which equates to about 1400 USD. LCD 2 is going for $1800 NZD which is almost 1300 USD. It is a local audio shop here offering at new year. In New Zealand audio equipment is way more expensive than US.


----------



## dinesh18892

carlosunchained said:


> May I ask which offer? New?


 
 Normal price for X is $3200.


----------



## DavidA

@dinesh18892, those are some really high prices, but if the X is about the same prices as the 2 then go with the X since if you ever sell them you'll get more.


----------



## dinesh18892

davida said:


> @dinesh18892, those are some really high prices, but if the X is about the same prices as the 2 then go with the X since if you ever sell them you'll get more.


 
 That is what I am thinking. Even if I have to sell it in future. I wont loose much. I will be using it with my LG V10 for a while until I decide my amp which most probably will be Jot. V10 has a great DAC and Amp inbuilt and to my surprise it supports DSD lol.


----------



## DavidA

dinesh18892 said:


> That is what I am thinking. Even if I have to sell it in future. I wont loose much. I will be using it with my LG V10 for a while until I decide my amp which most probably will be Jot. V10 has a great DAC and Amp inbuilt and to my surprise it supports DSD lol.


 
 The X is a much better match to be driven with portable devices like your phone or DAP.


----------



## dinesh18892

davida said:


> The X is a much better match to be driven with portable devices like your phone or DAP.


 
 To be honest I miss the experience of playing songs from my laptop connected to DAC and amp with my hd650 and reclining on my chair while sipping wine. DAP and Phone cant replicate that haha.


----------



## CarlosUnchained

dinesh18892 said:


> To be honest I miss the experience of playing songs from my laptop connected to DAC and amp with my hd650 and reclining on my chair while sipping wine. DAP and Phone cant replicate that haha.


 

 I think someone should start a thread about what kind of alcoholic beverage enhance their listening experience.
  
 Edit: Ok I just did http://www.head-fi.org/t/831447/what-kind-of-beverage-food-or-drugs-enhance-your-listening-sessions


----------



## dinesh18892

carlosunchained said:


> I think someone should start a thread about what kind of alcoholic beverage enhance their listening experience.


 
 haha yeah I am all about a good glass of Cab Sav and Pinot Noir.


----------



## DavidA

dinesh18892 said:


> haha yeah I am all about a good glass of Cab Sav and Pinot Noir.


 
 right there with you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 but I did get to try some good scotch the other day when my good friend let me try some Ballantine 30, Macallan 21 and a Suntory Yamazaki 18.  We also each had a half shot of my Louie XIII that is actually stored at his house.  With this bunch almost anything will sound good, but being headfi, YMMV and IMO, LOL


----------



## dinesh18892

davida said:


> right there with you
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I approve all of this. A glass of black label on the rocks never disappoints either.


----------



## etoilebiscuit

i would recommend room temp lagavulin with Adele tunes


----------



## watchnerd

dinesh18892 said:


> I approve all of this. A glass of black label on the rocks never disappoints either.


 
  
 On the rocks?
  
 Well, I guess with Black Label, you have to.  It's not single malt.


----------



## dinesh18892

watchnerd said:


> On the rocks?
> 
> Well, I guess with Black Label, you have to.  It's not single malt.




I take just one piece ice. Love it


----------



## CobraVerde

Quick question team, I have the Phono card installed in my Jot and I am getting hiss when once turn the volume past 12 o'clock. Is this normal?
  
 Cheers
  
 CV


----------



## Smithington

Hiss or hum? There are other threads on here that talk about phono hiss / hum. Might be worth a read.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/506250/how-do-i-stop-the-hiss-coming-from-my-phono-pre-amp


----------



## CobraVerde

Its hiss, its just as present when the nothing is connected to the unit, the XLR and the rca inputs are dead silent.
  
 Thanks for the link btw it looks like a good read


----------



## patton

mwsvette said:


> The Jot has fully balanced output regardless of the input being SE or balanced.


 
  
  
 In trying to decide what equipment and and audio streaming service I want to keep I went to the following website to compare 16bit vs 8 bit performance.
  
 http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_dithering.php
  
 I have a balanced wire for my HD650s and tested it against the SE output on my Jot. I do not think Im getting more than double the output with the balanced, in fact I'd say its the same. I also have the Mimby and questioning if its truly worth the the extra $. Can anyone confirm if a balanced input is required for the balanced power output advertised on Schiits site:
  
_Balanced Headphone Output:
 Maximum Power, 16 ohms: 7500mW RMS per channel
 Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 5000mW RMS per channel
 Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 3000mW RMS per channel
 Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 900mW RMS per channel
 Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 500mW RMS per channel
 Single-Ended Headphone Output:
 Maximum Power, 16 ohms: 2500mW RMS per channel
 Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 1500mW RMS per channel
 Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 800mW RMS per channel
 Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 350mW RMS per channel_


----------



## CarlosUnchained

patton said:


> In trying to decide what equipment and and audio streaming service I want to keep I went to the following website to compare 16bit vs 8 bit performance.
> 
> http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_dithering.php
> 
> ...


 
  
 Correct me if I'm wrong, but output power is not equal to volume, gain is more related.
 Both output stages don't have to be necessarily on the same gain level.
  
 You may be getting more headroom through balance, but not twice the volume.


----------



## franzdom

Those nuimbers are probably only relevant at full volume.


----------



## patton

franzdom said:


> Those nuimbers are probably only relevant at full volume.


 
 I was playing a 100% maximum volume, dont start there, the test files start at a normal scale volume and slowly get quieter. 
  
  
  


carlosunchained said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but output power is not equal to volume, gain is more related.
> Both output stages don't have to be necessarily on the same gain level.
> 
> You may be getting more headroom through balance, but not twice the volume.


 
  
  
 Im not sure on that, but I couldnt tell the difference between the two connections at all


----------



## MWSVette

patton said:


> In trying to decide what equipment and and audio streaming service I want to keep I went to the following website to compare 16bit vs 8 bit performance.
> 
> http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_dithering.php
> 
> ...


 
 No, a balanced input is not needed.  
  
 Regardless of input the output via balanced connector is as listed above...


----------



## patton

mwsvette said:


> No, a balanced input is not needed.
> 
> Regardless of input the output via balanced connector is as listed above...


 
 Im a novice here but I dont understand how that could be possible given the extremely simply test I completed. Same source, dac, amp, and cables between them; the only variable was the connection between my HD650s and the amp. If the 550mW extra, per channel, are indeed there I am not hearing it. Any suggestion on where or how I could hear the difference?


----------



## Letmebefrank

patton said:


> Im a novice here but I dont understand how that could be possible given the extremely simply test I completed. Same source, dac, amp, and cables between them; the only variable was the connection between my HD650s and the amp. If the 550mW extra, per channel, are indeed there I am not hearing it. Any suggestion on where or how I could hear the difference?




The volume difference between balanced and single ended is easily noticeable to me and many other people in this thread. I wouldn't say it is double but more like 20-30% more volume. There are other advantages as well such as channel separation and slew rate, better dynamics from the increase in power/headroom. The list of advantages of balanced over single ended goes on.

Are you swapping the whole cable on your 650s or using a balanced>SE adapter?

Your brain can easily forget how loud it was during the time it takes to swap a cable. 

If you can't hear the difference then that is fine, but there is a difference.


----------



## patton

letmebefrank said:


> The volume difference between balanced and single ended is easily noticeable to me and many other people in this thread. I wouldn't say it is double but more like 20-30% more volume. There are other advantages as well such as channel separation and slew rate, better dynamics from the increase in power/headroom. The list of advantages of balanced over single ended goes on.
> 
> Are you swapping the whole cable on your 650s or using a balanced>SE adapter?
> 
> ...


 
 Im swapping the whole cable and the test available in the link I provided makes it very easy to compare the volume levels. Has anyone here tested the Jot balanced vs SE output with your own ears to repudiate or substantiate these claims? 
  
  
 Edit-
 Just to be clear, Im not making any generalizations about SE vs balanced. I am specifically referring to an unbalanced input on the Jot and comparing a balanced vs SE output.


----------



## watchnerd

patton said:


> In trying to decide what equipment and and audio streaming service I want to keep I went to the following website to compare 16bit vs 8 bit performance.
> 
> http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_dithering.php


 
  
 Sorry, I'm confused...what does dithering have to do with the Jotunheim?


----------



## patton

watchnerd said:


> Sorry, I'm confused...what does dithering have to do with the Jotunheim?


 
 absolutely nothing, but that doesn't negate the question or the validity of the test


----------



## mwhals

Try playing music at your normal volume on SE. Note the volume by using a piece of tape. Now listen to the same song at the normal volume on balancedband see if the knob is in a different position than SE (the tape).


----------



## watchnerd

patton said:


> absolutely nothing, but that doesn't negate the question or the validity of the test


 
  
 You'll probably get more interest in the topic by posting it in Sound Science, as opposed to plopping it into a Jotunheim-specific thread.


----------



## MWSVette

Double volume requires 10X the power.  
  
 The difference between the balanced and SE is far smaller than that.   
  
 The difference in SPL would be about 10% to 20% depending on the efficiency of the headphones between the 2 outputs on the Jot.


----------



## patton

mwhals said:


> Try playing music at your normal volume on SE. Note the volume by using a piece of tape. Now listen to the same song at the normal volume on balancedband see if the knob is in a different position than SE (the tape).


 
  
 Thanks, this was a good idea. Instead of finding my preferred volume for each I just picked a higher yet comfortable volume with the SE and switched to the balanced. I could tell a difference going this route, just focusing on SPL, I went back and forth between the two wires 15 times. The balanced wire did sound louder. This test and the test I linked too seem to be at odds with each other, maybe I'm getting hit with a placebo either way, I'm befuddled


----------



## Letmebefrank

I have made my own 4pin xlr female to trs male adapter for my headphones, as I converted my 650 cable to balanced 4 pin. Using this method takes about 2 seconds to switch from balanced to SE and the differences are very obvious with this fast of a switch.


----------



## lenroot77

letmebefrank said:


> I have made my own 4pin xlr female to trs male adapter for my headphones, as I converted my 650 cable to balanced 4 pin. Using this method takes about 2 seconds to switch from balanced to SE and the differences are very obvious with this fast of a switch.




Difference just in volume?


----------



## Ancipital

letmebefrank said:


> I have made my own 4pin xlr female to trs male adapter for my headphones, as I converted my 650 cable to balanced 4 pin. Using this method takes about 2 seconds to switch from balanced to SE and the differences are very obvious with this fast of a switch.


 
  
 Hah, yes, I balanced cable and a converter tail turns out to be so much easier, doesn't it? It also means you don't need a zillion different cables for your various headphones, just one good one per pair. 
  
 (..and yes, if you have the 650 and the Jot, you'd be mad not to go balanced, all that extra power and slew rate really slaps the drivers into line.)


----------



## wasupdog

lenroot77 said:


> Difference just in volume?


 
  
 not just volume.  better separation, clarity, etc.  it's the same sound but better all around.  the 650/6xx need a lot of power to drive them to their fullest.


----------



## jcdreamer

kenneth tang said:


> Got the reply from schiit.... ****! no stock for me! So disappointed and frustrated for the long waiting. I am asking to have my money back first, maybe I will change my mind to buying a chord mojo.... feel so sorry.....


 

 Trust me, it's worth the wait. I usually don't comment much on these forums, but the Jot is the real deal.


----------



## franzdom

kenneth tang said:


> Got the reply from schiit.... ****! no stock for me! So disappointed and frustrated for the long waiting. I am asking to have my money back first, maybe I will change my mind to buying a chord mojo.... feel so sorry.....


 
  
 Oh dear, my condolences!


----------



## jmac1516

jcdreamer said:


> Trust me, it's worth the wait. I usually don't comment much on these forums, but the Jot is the real deal.




+1.

 I don't have a Jot but if this is the one that best fits your needs, wait for it. You will enjoy it for years (unless you start upgrading for minimal reasons like many of us around here). 

Or look for a used one (see previous sentence in parens).


----------



## dinesh18892

davida said:


> Haven't tried a Jot yet but did try the whole LCD line, X is okay but not worth the premium over the 2 IMO unless you are using lower powered gear or just don't want to deal with DACs and amps then its a great headphone in that situation.  Like @CarlosUnchained
> noted I think the Jot is overkill for the X unless you have other less efficient headphones that you will be using with the Jot.
> 
> 
> I have a Bimby and Ember, great combo




Irrelevant to this thread but got this deal today and I could not find anything better am sure.


----------



## slex

dinesh18892 said:


> Irrelevant to this thread but got this deal today and I could not find anything better am sure.



Previous flagship amp?


----------



## dinesh18892

slex said:


> Previous flagship amp?




This is Hifiman EF6 with Cambridge Audio Dacmagic 100 and alpha dogs


----------



## Clemmaster

The EF-6 is a joke of an amp.
  
 The volume control is terrible with lots of cracking noise between steps (on mine, at least) and way too much gain/hiss for normal headphones.
  
 I could hear the hiss with the LCD-X ...


----------



## Voxata

Well yeah, it's made to pair with the HE6, not the efficient LCDX


----------



## Torrs

Hi,
  
 Has anyone compared a mojo line-in to the internal dac? I just wanted to know if it's better to just purchase the unit as an amp without the dac section.


----------



## dinesh18892

clemmaster said:


> The EF-6 is a joke of an amp.
> 
> The volume control is terrible with lots of cracking noise between steps (on mine, at least) and way too much gain/hiss for normal headphones.
> 
> I could hear the hiss with the LCD-X ...







voxata said:


> Well yeah, it's made to pair with the HE6, not the efficient LCDX




I left the idea of lcd x now. This amp sounds superb with my alpha dogs. Dont need lcd x and Jot now.


----------



## Boban85

Enjoy your new amp dinesh  That's what this hobby is all about!
  
 I have the Jot and demoed with the mojo. To me, they benefit from each other. I'd give the edge to Jot as an amp, actually it's a MUCH better amp than the mojo, and probably give the edge to the mojo as a DAC only. The best was using the mojo as a DAC into the Jot as an amp. It sounded a bit fuller, more refined and a bit less shouty, with my phones. Hope that helps!


----------



## Roscoeiii

boban85 said:


> Enjoy your new amp dinesh  That's what this hobby is all about!
> 
> I have the Jot and demoed with the mojo. To me, they benefit from each other. I'd give the edge to Jot as an amp, actually it's a MUCH better amp than the mojo, and probably give the edge to the mojo as a DAC only. The best was using the mojo as a DAC into the Jot as an amp. It sounded a bit fuller, more refined and a bit less shouty, with my phones. Hope that helps!


 
 What headphones were you driving in these comparisons?


----------



## Boban85

I was primarily driving HiFiMan's HE-560s and Sony's MA900s. With the Mojo as a DAC, both were less dry in the mids and the vocals sounded less raspy/sandy. The Jot brought the vocals of the HE-560 forward, which I liked, but made them too dry and raspy. Occasionally, the starts would align and it would sound amazing, but most of the time it sounded dry and a bit shouty on the Jot alone. If you have the HE-560 or some other midrange dry or analytical headphones, you might just get the Jot as an amp only and invest in a better DAC (maybe something R2R based). Just my two cents.
  
 Edit: Of course, I can also see how some might enjoy Jot's own DAC and never feel the need to go beyond. It is an amazing DAC for the price. It is all about synergy and how you pair your gear, so if it sounds right to you, that's all the proof you need.


----------



## Boban85

Sorry to double post, I have to elaborate a bit more. Would I rate the Mojo as a DAC at $500 more than the Jot DAC module? Certainly not. If you don't need Mojo's mobility, it's probably better to skip both the internal DAC and Mojo and just invest in a Mimby at $150 more than Jot's DAC module. Leave both the Jot and Mimby on all the time, they really sound much better after going for a while, and use coaxial to connect the Mimby, it's head and shoulders better (you really should avoid USB). If using a newer desktop PC, you can just go directly from your mobo's optical out to the Mimby and avoid paying for all the USB de-crapifiers and converters.
  
 It is really an amazing value, the Mimby for $250, the Jot for $399, a coax cable and you are set. No need to read forums in the next few years, just enjoy your music. Cheers!


----------



## Torrs

boban85 said:


> Enjoy your new amp dinesh  That's what this hobby is all about!
> 
> I have the Jot and demoed with the mojo. To me, they benefit from each other. I'd give the edge to Jot as an amp, actually it's a MUCH better amp than the mojo, and probably give the edge to the mojo as a DAC only. The best was using the mojo as a DAC into the Jot as an amp. It sounded a bit fuller, more refined and a bit less shouty, with my phones. Hope that helps!


 
 Thank you Boban for the advice. I am looking at the jot to improve my current mojo only setup. If the mojo/jot synergy is good then maybe I can save a little of money and buy the amp only version.


----------



## Boban85

Yes, I thought you might already have the Mojo  Honestly, if I had the Mojo already, I would not buy Jot's DAC module. I would just get the amp at $399. Then who knows, maybe in the future a better DAC module will be released by Schiit and you can think about adding that one. Or you might go into vinyl and get the phono, your options are open...

 I would also add one caveat: you'd have to be fine with using the Mojo as a desktop DAC, functionality wise (charging and etc).
  


torrs said:


> Thank you Boban for the advice. I am looking at the jot to improve my current mojo only setup. If the mojo/jot synergy is good then maybe I can save a little of money and buy the amp only version.


----------



## franzdom

I wish I had gotten the phono instead of the naked version.


----------



## Mr Rick

franzdom said:


> I wish I had gotten the phono instead of the naked version.


 
  
 Schiit will be happy to upgrade your Jot for you.


----------



## Voxata

Or if you've got an allen wrench and half a brain they'll ship you the add-in card for $100+ship


----------



## Boban85

voxata said:


> Or if you've got an allen wrench and half a brain they'll ship you the add-in card for $100+ship


 
  
 They might do if you e-mail and ask them, but the option is not available on the site for the phono; only for the DAC module.


----------



## franzdom

I would totally be down for $100, I have a Mani but I could simplify my setup for when not using MJ2 which is most of the time.


----------



## bigro

I did not realize this until recently but the Jot Phono Card is a Balanced output card which should make things interesting. Keep In Mind it is only for MM cartridges.


----------



## leafy7382

I have been listening to my Jot+DAC for months driving HD650 over balanced cables.
 Yesterday, one of my evil colleague brought his Mimby to work and it was a big step up from the DAC module. 
 The Mimby + Jot combo is very smooth compared to the DAC module. One probably won't notice without comparison, but Mimby seems to provide a lot more dynamic and much more details without sounding as bright.
  
 The most significant improvement is vocal and cello, both seemed to be recessed when using the internal DAC, but has much more weight and presence with Mimby. The lower end of the spectrum is also a great improvement. Bernstein's thud on the platform is easily heard in Mahler's 5th symphony, mov 2.
  
 Now I need to figure out where to buy a Mimby


----------



## djchup

boban85 said:


> They might do if you e-mail and ask them, but the option is not available on the site for the phono; only for the DAC module.


 
 http://schiit.com/products/jotunheim-phono
  
 Edit: just realized you meant self-installed.  Nothing to see here


----------



## franzdom

bigro said:


> I did not realize this until recently but the Jot Phono Card is a Balanced output card which should make things interesting. Keep In Mind it is only for MM cartridges.


 
  
 Yup, perfect. I am old school, using a Bang Olufsen Beogram 5000 I bought in 1984.


----------



## watchnerd

franzdom said:


> Yup, perfect. I am old school, using a Bang Olufsen Beogram 5000 I bought in 1984.


 
  
 Dang, don't those use MI carts with a weird shape?
  
 Always kind of wanted one as 2nd table.


----------



## Tuneslover

For all Canadian Head-fier's out there, The Headphone Bar (in Vancouver) confirmed with me that all future Schiit sales will be "in-store" sales only. No more internet sales...that's too bad.


----------



## franzdom

watchnerd said:


> Dang, don't those use MI carts with a weird shape?
> 
> Always kind of wanted one as 2nd table.


 
  
 Mine is called MMC but it's MM basically. 
  

  
 ^ Here is a pic of it before I fixed the light housing.
  

  

  
 They look kind of like this, I bought cartridges from soundsmith.com


----------



## ErikV55

hmmm, I wonder. Should I got with a mimby + Magni or the Jot for my HD650....


----------



## Tuneslover

erikv55 said:


> hmmm, I wonder. Should I got with a mimby + Magni or the Jot for my HD650....



For what it's worth, I had the Magni and enjoyed it but after upgrading to the Jot (amp only) I recognized a pretty noticeable improvement. Plus going balanced (which I did with my HD650's) made it even better. Then save up for the Mimby (or Bimby if you intend to continuously upgrade your DAC).


----------



## jchandler3

erikv55 said:


> hmmm, I wonder. Should I got with a mimby + Magni or the Jot for my HD650....


 

 I agree with @Tuneslover. I own the Jot and M2U (and HD650) and there's a pretty noticeable difference. Definitely worth the extra money. 
  
 Easiest way to go balanced is to reterminate the cheap, stock cable with 4-XLR and it was definitely worth my time. I love the balanced setup. Not just extra volume.


----------



## ErikV55

jchandler3 said:


> I agree with @Tuneslover. I own the Jot and M2U (and HD650) and there's a pretty noticeable difference. Definitely worth the extra money.
> 
> Easiest way to go balanced is to reterminate the cheap, stock cable with 4-XLR and it was definitely worth my time. I love the balanced setup. Not just extra volume.


 
  
 Worth looking into the integrated DAC on the Jot? If It's that much better to go with a Mimby and Jot (amp only) it's worth it to me to pay the extra ~$150, as I'd be keeping the set up for quite some time.


----------



## Vigrith

erikv55 said:


> Worth looking into the integrated DAC on the Jot? If It's that much better to go with a Mimby and Jot (amp only) it's worth it to me to pay the extra ~$150, as I'd be keeping the set up for quite some time.


 
  
 If budget allows then it's worth it for sure.


----------



## jchandler3

erikv55 said:


> Worth looking into the integrated DAC on the Jot? If It's that much better to go with a Mimby and Jot (amp only) it's worth it to me to pay the extra ~$150, as I'd be keeping the set up for quite some time.




Unfortunately I can't say... no experience with the Mimby. I have the Gungnir and I prefer that over the integrated DAC (sent to me by mistake). I hear the Mimby is better though...


----------



## mwhals

jchandler3 said:


> Unfortunately I can't say... no experience with the Mimby. I have the Gungnir and I prefer that over the integrated DAC (sent to me by mistake). I hear the Mimby is better though...




Gungnir MB or DS?


----------



## Ancipital

erikv55 said:


> Worth looking into the integrated DAC on the Jot? If It's that much better to go with a Mimby and Jot (amp only) it's worth it to me to pay the extra ~$150, as I'd be keeping the set up for quite some time.


 
  
 It's very much worth it, yes. The Mimby is ridiculously good for the price, and the difference in quality between that and a bunch of 4490 D/S stuff, even well implemented as Schiit's tends to be, is pretty clear.
  
 Just remember to leave the Mimby on- it only sips power. Multibit DACs are more accurate when they're up to temperature.


----------



## jchandler3

mwhals said:


> Gungnir MB or DS?




DS. 

Again, I don't have personal experience with it, but every impression I've read is that MB with the Mimby is more noticeable and more of an improvement than the balanced DAC with the Jot.


----------



## Nautrachkfriend

I've ran balanced LCD-2's with the Mimby and Jotunheim, as well as running the LCD-2's with the Jotunheim DAC.

I liked the Mimby+Jotunheim a lot more than the Jotunuein DAC. The detail was a lot better with the Mimby...Don't get me wrong though. The $100 4490 DAC option is still darn good for the price.


----------



## leafy7382

Mimby is definitely a step up from the built-in DAC. Actually I ordered a Bimby just after auditioning the Mimby (the size stacks better with Jot).


----------



## ginetto61

jchandler3 said:


> ...  Easiest way to go balanced is to reterminate the cheap, stock cable with 4-XLR and it was definitely worth my time....


 
  
 Hi ! sorry to jump in. Do you mean to replace the stock cable with a 4 wires cable ?  
 i wonder if in the 4 pins xlr the L and R - pins are separated or the L and R channel share the same - pin like in the unbalanced connection.
 I am confused about the balanced connection but very interested. 
 It seems that there is a wide consensus about its superiority compared to the unbalanced one. 
 Thanks a lot,   gino


----------



## jimmers

ginetto61 said:


> Hi ! sorry to jump in. Do you mean to replace the stock cable with a 4 wires cable ?


 
 Most covered here 
 https://robrobinette.com/BalancedCable.htm


----------



## ginetto61

jimmers said:


> Most covered here
> https://robrobinette.com/BalancedCable.htm


 
  
 Thanks a lot. 
 Regards, gino


----------



## jchandler3

ginetto61 said:


> Hi ! sorry to jump in. Do you mean to replace the stock cable with a 4 wires cable ?
> i wonder if in the 4 pins xlr the L and R - pins are separated or the L and R channel share the same - pin like in the unbalanced connection.
> I am confused about the balanced connection but very interested.
> It seems that there is a wide consensus about its superiority compared to the unbalanced one.
> Thanks a lot,   gino




I do mean the stock cable, it has 4 wires (2 jackets, 2 lacquered wires in each). Pretty easy conversion. PM me with questions if you want, so we don't hijack the thread.


----------



## sigillumdei

New to the scene!  Over the holiday I purchased a pair of HE-400i.  I also purchased a NAD D 1050.  So far I'm happy but then I ran across the Schiit Jotunheim.  I'm looking for advice.  Should I send back the NAD D 1050 and replace it with the Schitt Jotunheim w/ DAC, replace it with the Schitt Jotunheim w/ another DAC you might suggest, or keep the NAD D 1050?  Any advice is MUCH appreciated.  I'm new and learning.


----------



## watchnerd

> So far I'm happy


 
  
 You just got a new toy.  You're happy.
  
 Live with it, and your new headphones, for a while. Learn what you like and dislike.  Learn the shotcomings.  Then, when the time comes to consider an updgrade, you'll be making an educated choice.


----------



## lenroot77

jchandler3 said:


> I do mean the stock cable, it has 4 wires (2 jackets, 2 lacquered wires in each). Pretty easy conversion. PM me with questions if you want, so we don't hijack the thread.




+1 this!


----------



## iamxLn

Can buy a stock one redone on eBay for like 50 bucks.


----------



## sigillumdei

I went ahead and returned the NAD D 1050.  Whether I started a youtube video or any audio what so ever there was a 2-5 second delay before I would hear anything.  I'm looking at the arcam rdac and I'm not sure if I'll use the Schitt Jotunheim amp.  I've heard lots of good things through this thread!  Appreciate it!


----------



## aak57

So the balanced cable for my HD 6XX arrived today, but unfortunately there's almost no audio when I use it in balanced mode (everything works fine in SE mode).  I made sure to flip the switch to balanced mode and I plugged everything in as deep as seems safe.  At first I thought there was no audio at all, but when I set it to high gain and crank Jot all the way up I can hear very faint audio playing.  Is this more likely to be an issue with the balanced output of my Jot or the cable itself, or is there something else that I should have done and didn't?


----------



## KamijoIsMyHero

I don't think you need to flip a switch to use the balanced socket. Use the same switch position as when you were using SE


----------



## Mr Rick

aak57 said:


> So the balanced cable for my HD 6XX arrived today, but unfortunately there's almost no audio when I use it in balanced mode (everything works fine in SE mode).  I made sure to flip the switch to balanced mode and I plugged everything in as deep as seems safe.  At first I thought there was no audio at all, but when I set it to high gain and crank Jot all the way up I can hear very faint audio playing.  Is this more likely to be an issue with the balanced output of my Jot or the cable itself, or is there something else that I should have done and didn't?


 
 There is no balanced mode, only a balanced or single ended input switch. With a SE input both the SE headphone output and the balanced output are active.


----------



## aak57

...Oh.  >_>
  
 Well, those were very polite ways of letting me know I'm an idiot.  Even though I had read the manual it somehow didn't sink in that the switch was only for input, even though looking at it right now it very clearly says that.  Oh well, better to be dumb than in need of replacing something.  Thanks for the help, off to listen to some music.


----------



## Mr Rick

aak57 said:


> ...Oh.  >_>
> 
> Well, those were very polite ways of letting me know I'm an idiot.  Even though I had read the manual it somehow didn't sink in that the switch was only for input, even though looking at it right now it very clearly says that.  Oh well, better to be dumb than in need of replacing something.  Thanks for the help, off to listen to some music.


 
  
 Enjoy!!


----------



## franzdom

I don't think anybody was thinking you are an idiot, these hookup schemes are always a bit confusing.


----------



## sigillumdei

They might be they just were't' saying it.  Who knows what people think.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

Hi guys,
  
 where can I find how much is the output power of the pre-out XLR from the Jotunheim with the AKM dac equipped and using USB input? Can this be used as a variable line-out? Under "specs" http://schiit.com/products/jotunheim only the HP output power is rated.


----------



## GearMe

Seem to recall from the thread that the "Pre Outs" are variable...which would make sense to me.

Based on the specs, it seems that the Max Output is 2.0V RMS


----------



## h1f1add1cted

Hmm thanks, but 2 Vrms would be very low over XLR, "standard" for unbalanced RCA output would be like 2 / 2.1 Vrms sure, but balanced XLR "normally" has at least 4 / 4.2 Vrms (or more if variable). I'm really wondering why I can't find any information for this.


----------



## GearMe

Yeah they don't differentiate between the two on their site...did you email them?


----------



## tunes

I remember reading somewhere that the multibit DAC needs to be left powered on all the time for best SQ.. Why is this true or not and how much energy is wasted per year? Does this also apply absolutely to the JOT amp as well? 

Why are there orange glowing lights inside the JOT chassis?? 

I only listen to my gear on weekends so wondering if should just leave the Mimby on all the time and turn on the JOT for the weekends?


----------



## MWSVette

tunes said:


> I remember reading somewhere that the multibit DAC needs to be left powered on all the time for best SQ.. Why is this true or not and how much energy is wasted per year? Does this also apply absolutely to the JOT amp as well?
> 
> Why are there orange glowing lights inside the JOT chassis??
> 
> I only listen to my gear on weekends so wondering if should just leave the Mimby on all the time and turn on the JOT for the weekends?


 
 I leave my Bimby and Jot on 24/7.


----------



## theveterans

tunes said:


> I remember reading somewhere that the multibit DAC needs to be left powered on all the time for best SQ.. Why is this true or not and how much energy is wasted per year? Does this also apply absolutely to the JOT amp as well?
> 
> Why are there orange glowing lights inside the JOT chassis??
> 
> I only listen to my gear on weekends so wondering if should just leave the Mimby on all the time and turn on the JOT for the weekends?


 
  
 It's true since the tiny resistor ladders inside the AD5547 chip in Modi and Bifrost are sensitive to temperature change. Energy wasted / should not even increase your bills in the 10% or more range as Mimby uses very little power. As for Jot, it's a solid-state amp which does not rely on sensitive resistors for precision conversion of digital to analog signal so there's no need to leave them on 24/7.


----------



## potterma

tunes said:


> Why are there orange glowing lights inside the JOT chassis??


 
 Because they are fun!


----------



## watchnerd

potterma said:


> Because they are fun!


 
  
 Because green would look stupid.


----------



## silvrr

tunes said:


> Why are there orange glowing lights inside the JOT chassis??




They have a use in the circuit. I don't recall exactly but they are used because they have as constant power draw and that factor is used in setting or stabilizing part of the circuit. 

Schiit provided the answer somewhere in here or the schiit happened thread.


----------



## Baldr

silvrr said:


> They have a use in the circuit. I don't recall exactly but they are used because they have as constant power draw and that factor is used in setting or stabilizing part of the circuit.
> 
> Schiit provided the answer somewhere in here or the schiit happened thread.



THey are used as voltage references in current sources. I have used them as long as 40 years ago. At Theta Digital, we used red LEDs and called them "Chernobyl" circuits.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

gearme said:


> Yeah they don't differentiate between the two on their site...did you email them?


 
  
 Nope, this is for me a very basic, but important information. I'm really wondering why this is not mentioned in the specs!
  
 Because this baby with equipped dac is a real price/performance beast if I compared to my Audio-GD NFB 10.33 with Amanero384 XMOS USB, the Schiit one offers the better choice if you look for best bag for your buck as a all-in-one- dac/amp/pre-amp solution under 600 Euro.


----------



## Neflinger

Can you use the SE Preamp Output and Balanced Preamp Output at the same time? Or is it only one at a time?


----------



## MWSVette

neflinger said:


> Can you use the SE Preamp Output and Balanced Preamp Output at the same time? Or is it only one at a time?


 
 Yes you can use them both.  They are active at the same time...


----------



## ginetto61

Hi ! thanks for the very interesting thread and sorry to jump in with a question
 any *opinion of the unit when used as  line preamp ?*
 The selectable gain and balanced/unbalanced ins-outs make it very flexible and interesting.
 Thanks a lot,  gino


----------



## franzdom

I use Jot for preamp for active near field monitors. The speakers are powered off with a remote controlled plug when listening to headphones and the headphones are sometimes unplugged when listening to speakers. I am using speakers and headphones fully balanced except when listening to vinyl when I switch the Jot to SE input from a Mani phono preamp. Input from Yggy is balanced.


----------



## ginetto61

franzdom said:


> I use Jot for preamp for active near field monitors. The speakers are powered off with a remote controlled plug when listening to headphones and the headphones are sometimes unplugged when listening to speakers. I am using speakers and headphones fully balanced except when listening to vinyl when I switch the Jot to SE input from a Mani phono preamp. Input from Yggy is balanced.


 
 Thank you very much indeed for the very kind and valuable advice
 But what about the final sound ? i love especially the 3D effect
 Thanks again,  gino


----------



## franzdom

ginetto61 said:


> Thank you very much indeed for the very kind and valuable advice
> But what about the final sound ? i love especially the 3D effect
> Thanks again,  gino


 
  
 Oh, the setup works great and the sound is killer. If you want tubes do the same thing with Mjolnir 2. I do both but am usually using the Jot. I actually swap amps occasionally, they are replacements for the same spot, not wired up in different systems.


----------



## mwhals

franzdom said:


> Oh, the setup works great and the sound is killer. If you want tubes do the same thing with Mjolnir 2. I do both but am usually using the Jot. I actually swap amps occasionally, they are replacements for the same spot, not wired up in different systems.




I get the feeling you like the Jotunheim better than the Mjolnir 2 or are they so close in sound that the tubes are the only difference.


----------



## ginetto61

> Originally Posted by *franzdom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> Oh, the setup works great and the sound is killer. If you want tubes do the same thing with Mjolnir 2. I do both but am usually using the Jot.
> I actually swap amps occasionally, they are replacements for the same spot, not wired up in different systems.


 
 Thank you very much again. 
 Not to be insisting .. but which you prefer of the two ? 
 I am still in the evaluation phase and tubes are really attractive


----------



## Xyrium

Hey guys,
  
 Any idea if the USB/DAC card on the Jot uses the 5V lines on the USB cable? I'm using a DAC currently on my desktop (not entirely USB powered, but uses the 5V lines nonetheless), and I'm confident that the noise on those power lines is what's causing some buzzing. Some DACs can't take it, or are sending that noise to ground somehow, but some DACs can't, apparently.


----------



## silvrr

xyrium said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Any idea if the USB/DAC card on the Jot uses the 5V lines on the USB cable? I'm using a DAC currently on my desktop (not entirely USB powered, but uses the 5V lines nonetheless), and I'm confident that the noise on those power lines is what's causing some buzzing. Some DACs can't take it, or are sending that noise to ground somehow, but some DACs can't, apparently.


 
 From what I recall reading it does use the 5V to make the connection but the DAC itself is powered off the Jot powersupply.  So the receiver is powered off USB but the DAC is not.


----------



## mwhals

xyrium said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Any idea if the USB/DAC card on the Jot uses the 5V lines on the USB cable? I'm using a DAC currently on my desktop (not entirely USB powered, but uses the 5V lines nonetheless), and I'm confident that the noise on those power lines is what's causing some buzzing. Some DACs can't take it, or are sending that noise to ground somehow, but some DACs can't, apparently.




The USB interface is powered from the USB 5V.


----------



## Xyrium

Ok, thanks guys!


----------



## franzdom

mwhals said:


> I get the feeling you like the Jotunheim better than the Mjolnir 2 or are they so close in sound that the tubes are the only difference.


 
  
  


ginetto61 said:


> Thank you very much again.
> Not to be insisting .. but which you prefer of the two ?
> I am still in the evaluation phase and tubes are really attractive


 
  
 They are really very very close. The MJ2 seems to have a more commanding presence, It drives with perhaps slightly more authority. I feel the cleanliness and darkness of the Jot to be slightly superior, it is my favorite of the 2 by a small margin.


----------



## mwhals

franzdom said:


> They are really very very close. The MJ2 seems to have a more commanding presence, It drives with perhaps slightly more authority. I feel the cleanliness and darkness of the Jot to be slightly superior, it is my favorite of the 2 by a small margin.




If they are that close, I see no reason to get a Mjolnir 2 over a Jotunheim.


----------



## franzdom

I bought it because I had many tubes from having a Lyr2.
 Then I bought the Jot when the MJ2 went DOA within a month and I felt like I needed a balanced backup.
 So I listened to the Jot for a few months, pulled out the replacement MJ2 the other day and it is also broken. Back to the hospital.


----------



## Vigrith

I own both the MJ2 and the Jotunheim as well and if you aren't keen on tube sound/tube rolling/tube aesthetic romanticism and given the price disparity between the two then please do not think you'll be left wanting once you own the Jotun. I love tubes but I have no issue admitting I actually rather the Jotun over the LISST MJ2, especially if you aren't running your headphones balanced.


----------



## ginetto61

franzdom said:


> They are really very very close. The MJ2 seems to have a more commanding presence, It drives with perhaps slightly more authority. I feel the cleanliness and darkness of the Jot to be slightly superior, it is my favorite of the 2 by a small margin.



Thanks again for the very kind and helpful advice 
I value cleaness in sound a lot 
Problem is that ss sometimes sounds hard and dry 
Clearly this is not the case here 
Great amp indeed this Jot
Kind regards gino


----------



## mwhals

vigrith said:


> I own both the MJ2 and the Jotunheim as well and if you aren't keen on tube sound/tube rolling/tube aesthetic romanticism and given the price disparity between the two then please do not think you'll be left wanting once you own the Jotun. I love tubes but I have no issue admitting I actually rather the Jotun over the LISST MJ2, especially if you aren't running your headphones balanced.




Both are balanced units, so I don't understand why you said "If you aren't running your headphones balanced." Are you saying the Mjolnir 2 is better running balanced headphones?


----------



## Vigrith

mwhals said:


> Both are balanced units, so I don't understand why you said "If you aren't running your headphones balanced." Are you saying the Mjolnir 2 is better running balanced headphones?


 
  
 That may have come off ambiguous as per my wording, what I meant is that the SE on the MJ2 is lacking when directly compared to the one on the Jotunheim. The balanced outs seem to be of just about equal quality however.


----------



## mwhals

vigrith said:


> That may have come off ambiguous as per my wording, what I meant is that the SE on the MJ2 is lacking when directly compared to the one on the Jotunheim. The balanced outs seem to be of just about equal quality however.




Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## sovereign

franzdom said:


> I use Jot for preamp for active near field monitors. The speakers are powered off with a remote controlled plug when listening to headphones and the headphones are sometimes unplugged when listening to speakers. I am using speakers and headphones fully balanced except when listening to vinyl when I switch the Jot to SE input from a Mani phono preamp. Input from Yggy is balanced.




Have you ever used a Magni2U as a preamp? I have and find it completely unacceptable when compared to my passive Adcom SLC-505. And this is even with very modest Paradigm A2 powered speakers. I have a Jotunheim on order and would like for it be able to pull duty as a preamp and remove the Adcom from the chain, as I do not need anything more than one input. Keeping my fingers crossed...


----------



## franzdom

No, please elaborate, is it too sensitive near the low volumes? Jot seems perfectly matched with my speakers. They are set at notched midpoint, and are modestly louder than my headphones for any given volume pot setting on the Jot.


----------



## sovereign

Compressed soundstage is the best I can describe it. And pressure build up/congestion in my ears. I have tried to make it work a few times, thinking I just need to adjust to the sound. Then I remove it and replace it with the Adcom and it is a *relief*- an "ah hah, I'm not insane" moment. This is all at modest volume, a max of low 80dbs as measured by a RadioShack db meter.


----------



## MarkF786

I've read that the Mimby & Bimby are better than the Jot's DAC (as to be expected) but how much of a difference is it?  I'm thinking of buying the Jot with the built in DAC and maybe upgrading to the Bimby (for the same form factor) sometime in the future.  I also have a Chord Mojo to use, though most of the time I'd stick with the built-in DAC for convenience.
  
 How good is the built-in DAC?  Considering Schiit's normal value/cost ratio, and the relatively large size of the board & components (compared to other $100 DACs), I would think it should be pretty good.


----------



## mwhals

markf786 said:


> Considering Schiit's normal value/cost ratio, and the relatively large size of the board & components (compared to other $100 DACs), I would think it should be pretty good.




I would guess it is better than the computer's DAC. Also, I would guess it is good until you hear something better. Those saying it is not good have heard better DACs. If you have not heard better DACs, it will likely be fine.

You could get a Modi Uber for about the same price, which may be better. You could get a Modi MB for $150 more, which is known to sound better.


----------



## MarkF786

mwhals said:


> I would guess it is better than the computer's DAC. Also, I would guess it is good until you hear something better. Those saying it is not good have heard better DACs. If you have not heard better DACs, it will likely be fine.
> 
> You could get a Modi Uber for about the same price, which may be better. You could get a Modi MB for $150 more, which is known to sound better.


 

 I get the feeling people may be underestimating the DAC.  It's specs looks better than the Modi Uber, and it's got two separate DACs since it's running in balanced mode.  Granted, the Multibit DACs would certainly be better though.
  
 I'd prefer to keep the same form factor for stacking, which means I'd need to go with the Bimby for $600 to upgrade to a Multibit DAC.


----------



## jimmers

markf786 said:


> ... and it's got two separate DACs since it's running in balanced mode....


 
 DS DACs like AK4490 have balanced output, so only one DAC.


----------



## watchnerd

jimmers said:


> DS DACs like AK4490 have balanced output, so only one DAC.


 
  
 No, not true.
  
 The AK4490 is stereo, but it is not balanced.  To have balanced across all phases (- left, + left, -right, +right) you need 2 to get all 4.
  
 Which is why the Jotunheim has 2 x 4490 DAC chips.


----------



## mwhals

jimmers said:


> DS DACs like AK4490 have balanced output, so only one DAC.




The AK4490 is a two channel DAC chip. It still takes two for balanced output with each side having two channels. Schiit uses two AK4490 chips in the Jotunheim and one in the Modi and Bifrost.


----------



## mwhals

watchnerd said:


> No, not true.
> 
> The AK4490 is stereo, but it is not balanced.  To have balanced across all phases (- left, + left, -right, +right) you need 2 to get all 4.
> 
> Which is why the Jotunheim has 2 x 4490 DAC chips.




I think we commented at the same time, LOL.


----------



## Vigrith

markf786 said:


> I get the feeling people may be underestimating the DAC.  It's specs looks better than the Modi Uber, and it's got two separate DACs since it's running in balanced mode.  Granted, the Multibit DACs would certainly be better though.
> 
> I'd prefer to keep the same form factor for stacking, which means I'd need to go with the Bimby for $600 to upgrade to a Multibit DAC.


 
  
 I have both the Modi MB as well as the Jotun's internal DAC - the difference is noticeable even without me actively looking for it; I'm sure you would not be disappointed once you upgrade from the internal card to the Bifrost MB. I'd say the internal DAC is more competent than a lot of people give it credit for but it's still a DS DAC despite being balanced, I've not got extensive experience with other similarly priced (100-200) devices but still.


----------



## tylerchris

markf786 said:


> I get the feeling people may be underestimating the DAC.  It's specs looks better than the Modi Uber, and it's got two separate DACs since it's running in balanced mode.  Granted, the Multibit DACs would certainly be better though.
> 
> I'd prefer to keep the same form factor for stacking, which means I'd need to go with the Bimby for $600 to upgrade to a Multibit DAC.


 

 I'm in the exact same boat as you - planning to get the Jotunheim soon, and want to go multi-bit, but want to go Bifrost for the same form factor (same width, almost the same height). I've also decided I will be going Jotunheim + built-in DAC for now, and then possibly getting a Bimby later on.


----------



## MarkF786

Schiit!  Maybe I should just spring for the Jot and Bimby from the start.  But now that that brings the total to $1K, I start to wonder if there's some other DAC/Amp combo to consider.
  
 I'd be using the combo with a range of headphones, most notably Elear, HD650, HD600, Amiron, and DT880.


----------



## Voxata

Just do mimby and jot, you'll never look back


----------



## watchnerd

voxata said:


> Just do mimby and jot, you'll never look back


 
  
 No, the mismatching sizes look goober.
  
 Get the Jot + Bifrost.


----------



## sigillumdei

I don't know the rules but damn!  I turned the NAD D 1050 for it's fault probably minor compared to other equipment but if you pay 500$ for a DAC/AMP you should probably get more than what I did.
  
 Anyhow I got teh Arcam rdac-kw + Schitt Asgard 2....with my HE-400s
  

 Dear Lord awesome.
  
 Why this thread to respond well I'm new but wow Schiit I can say well....I had to, is the SCHIIT!


----------



## franzdom

watchnerd said:


> No, the mismatching sizes look goober.
> 
> Get the Jot + Bifrost.


 


 When I got Yggy I very quickly got over mismatched sizes


----------



## Boban85

Also, please keep in mind that the Mimby is a bit smoother sounding, slightly more coherent, than Bimby and many people, myself included, prefer the Mimby when pairing with the Jot. Especially with analytical or a bit dry cans. YMMV, of course.


----------



## watchnerd

franzdom said:


> When I got Yggy I very quickly got over mismatched sizes


 
  
 It looks better with the Ragnarok.


----------



## mwhals

Go mismatched the other way and get a Jotunheim with a Gumby.


----------



## MarkF786

I feel pretty set on buying the Jot & Bimby stack, though I'm tempted to still spend the extra $100 for the internal DAC to compare against the Bimby.  If by some strange chance I can't hear much of a difference, then I could return the Bimby.  Or if I ever separated the two, I'd still have an all-in-one DAC/amp.


----------



## iamxLn

Spend the extra 100 on decent cables if you want to throw away 100 dollars.


----------



## Voxata

Nothing wrong with nice cables. Good feel, slight sonic differences can be worth it and they are easy on the eyes. My cables make my girlfriend want me every night. Science.


----------



## leafy7382

tylerchris said:


> I'm in the exact same boat as you - planning to get the Jotunheim soon, and want to go multi-bit, but want to go Bifrost for the same form factor (same width, almost the same height). I've also decided I will be going Jotunheim + built-in DAC for now, and then possibly getting a Bimby later on.


 
 I actually went down the exact same route. I had the Jot + Internal DAC for a few months and auditioned a Mimby with it, which made a significant difference, and ordered a Bimby. Mimby/Bimby grabs more attention compared to the built-in DAC.


----------



## jcdreamer

leafy7382 said:


> I actually went down the exact same route. I had the Jot + Internal DAC for a few months and auditioned a Mimby with it, which made a significant difference, and ordered a Bimby. Mimby/Bimby grabs more attention compared to the built-in DAC.


 

 By grabbing more attention, do you mean visually or sonically?


----------



## mwhals

jcdreamer said:


> By grabbing more attention, do you mean visually or sonically?




I think both.


----------



## leafy7382

I meant sonically 

They are all hidden away from view behind my 30 inch screen, nothing to see here *waves hand*


----------



## tylerchris

leafy7382 said:


> I actually went down the exact same route. I had the Jot + Internal DAC for a few months and auditioned a Mimby with it, which made a significant difference, and ordered a Bimby. Mimby/Bimby grabs more attention compared to the built-in DAC.


 

 That's interesting, more support for a noticeable difference between Mimby/Bimby and the Jot's internal DAC! Ugh, tough decisions...
  
 A big chunk of my music is 24/96 or 24/192 - a bunch of threads on another well-known forum talks about the Mimby/Bimby rounding any bits above 16 (I think they referenced that Mike had brought that up in one of the Schiit MB DAC threads)... and that they're more well suited for redbook.
  
 Not to go too in-depth on DACs in the Jot thread, but anyone have thoughts / opinions on that? That's something that's also been nudging me to get the Jot's dual-AK4490 DAC for now, even though it's DS.


----------



## watchnerd

tylerchris said:


> That's interesting, more support for a noticeable difference between Mimby/Bimby and the Jot's internal DAC! Ugh, tough decisions...
> 
> A big chunk of my music is 24/96 or 24/192 - a bunch of threads on another well-known forum talks about the Mimby/Bimby rounding any bits above 16 (I think they referenced that Mike had brought that up in one of the Schiit MB DAC threads)... and that they're more well suited for redbook.
> 
> Not to go too in-depth on DACs in the Jot thread, but anyone have thoughts / opinions on that? That's something that's also been nudging me to get the Jot's dual-AK4490 DAC for now, even though it's DS.


 
  
 Do you think it matters?  
  
 Most recordings don't even come close to using the dynamic range capabilities of 16 bit, let alone 24 bit.


----------



## martinrajdl

Hi, can anyone give me some pointers on Jotunheim vs Lyr 2 vs Valhalla 2 ? I know it's a bit difficult question to ask, but I'll be happy to hear any input anyway.
 I currently own Val 2 with HD600 and I plan to get LCD2, so I thought I would sell Val2 and get either LYR2 or Jot (in some time though, in the meantime I would run both from FIIO E09k, which is less than ideal solution, ik). 
 Sorry if it is inappropriate to ask this in this thread.


----------



## mwhals

martinrajdl said:


> Hi, can anyone give me some pointers on Jotunheim vs Lyr 2 vs Valhalla 2 ? I know it's a bit difficult question to ask, but I'll be happy to hear any input anyway.
> I currently own Val 2 with HD600 and I plan to get LCD2, so I thought I would sell Val2 and get either LYR2 or Jot (in some time though, in the meantime I would run both from FIIO E09k, which is less than ideal solution, ik).
> Sorry if it is inappropriate to ask this in this thread.




Lyr 2 is a solid state and tube hybid.
Lyr 2 is single ended output

Jotunheim is solid state only.
Jotunheim has balanced and single ended output.

Their specs are on Schiit's website.


----------



## martinrajdl

Oh sorry, I thought it would be obvious I meant some pointers about sound quality/signature etc. I obviously understand the specs and the fact that they are both very different amps in terms "features" but they cost the almost the same and are both often recommended as fairly universal amps.


----------



## MWSVette

martinrajdl said:


> Oh sorry, I thought it would be obvious I meant some pointers about sound quality/signature etc. I obviously understand the specs and the fact that they are both very different amps in terms "features" but they cost the almost the same and are both often recommended as fairly universal amps.


 
 If you are interested in tubes then go for the Lyr.
  
 If you wish to have an all in one balanced DAC/amp go for the Jot.
  
 I have both and they are each great amps in their own right.


----------



## mwhals

martinrajdl said:


> Oh sorry, I thought it would be obvious I meant some pointers about sound quality/signature etc. I obviously understand the specs and the fact that they are both very different amps in terms "features" but they cost the almost the same and are both often recommended as fairly universal amps.




It really depends on if you want tubes or not. The Jotunheim is nuetral to slightly bright and the Lyr 2 will be on the warmer side. The Jotunheim has is a very clean sounding amp. I don't believe you will be disappointed either way.


----------



## martinrajdl

Many thanks for the answers. I didn't realize the answer would be as simple as that and I thought that with the release of Jot there will be more to the conversation rather than just tube/balanced. I guess it was a somewhat silly question of me to ask, but I thought I would ask anyway. Well thanks again.


----------



## franzdom

The Lyr properly done will cost you a LOT more than the Jot. However balanced is really nice and tubes are sometimes over rated. I moved from Lyr2 to MJ2 and it was a good move. I then bought Jot and listen to it more than to tubes. Jot is >>> Lyr2 or MJ2 with LISST. It is not simple.


----------



## MarkF786

From the comments in this thread, it sounds like the general consensus is that the Jot's internal DAC is a waste of money and everyone should forgo it for something better.
  
 So why the hell did Schiit make such a **** DAC?  Is it really that bad, or is it a problem with perception?  Did Schiit come out with a DAC/Amp combo where the DAC only checks the box of "DAC Included"?
  
 I really wish the Schiit team would join in to comment on the relative merit.  It sound like people think this Schitt DAC is ****.  I suspect it's better than most give it credit.


----------



## Mr Rick

markf786 said:


> From the comments in this thread, it sounds like the general consensus is that the Jot's internal DAC is a waste of money and everyone should forgo it for something better.
> 
> So why the hell did Schiit make such a **** DAC?  Is it really that bad, or is it a problem with perception?  Did Schiit come out with a DAC/Amp combo where the DAC only checks the box of "DAC Included"?
> 
> I really wish the Schiit team would join in to comment on the relative merit.  It sound like people think this Schitt DAC is ****.  I suspect it's better than most give it credit.


 
  
 Many believe DAC "X" sounds better. Whatever *that* means.


----------



## lenroot77

It's not a bad Dac... it's just not a MB. With the mimby available at such an affordable price, people's expectations have grown quite a bit.


----------



## watchnerd

markf786 said:


> From the comments in this thread, it sounds like the general consensus is that the Jot's internal DAC is a waste of money and everyone should forgo it for something better.
> 
> So why the hell did Schiit make such a **** DAC?  Is it really that bad, or is it a problem with perception?  Did Schiit come out with a DAC/Amp combo where the DAC only checks the box of "DAC Included"?
> 
> I really wish the Schiit team would join in to comment on the relative merit.  It sound like people think this Schitt DAC is ****.  *I suspect it's better than most give it credit.*


 
  
 This.
  
 -It's the same AKM 4490 used for all the Schiit DS DACs (except the older ones in the Gungnir)
 -It's got 2 of them, which nothing below the Gungnir has
 -It's balanced, which nothing below the Gungnir is
 -It's got a beefy analog stage and power supply
  
 I think Schiit has done such a successful job convincing people that multibit + burrito filter is a good thing that people are extrapolating that to mean multi-bit anything >>> DS anything, which seems a gross over simplification to me.


----------



## jcdreamer

markf786 said:


> From the comments in this thread, it sounds like the general consensus is that the Jot's internal DAC is a waste of money and everyone should forgo it for something better.
> 
> So why the hell did Schiit make such a **** DAC?  Is it really that bad, or is it a problem with perception?  Did Schiit come out with a DAC/Amp combo where the DAC only checks the box of "DAC Included"?
> 
> I really wish the Schiit team would join in to comment on the relative merit.  It sound like people think this Schitt DAC is ****.  I suspect it's better than most give it credit.


 

 I am personally extremely happy with the internal DAC. Maybe it's because I haven't heard the multibits to know better.


----------



## tylerchris

watchnerd said:


> Do you think it matters?
> 
> Most recordings don't even come close to using the dynamic range capabilities of 16 bit, let alone 24 bit.


 

 I know what you mean, and have definitely read through the many threads on here (and other forums) about the benefit (or lack thereof) in high-res over 16bit/44.1khz redbook, in particular the DR range available in 24bit vs 16bit as you point out. I'll admit that a lot of the music I've bought (primarily via HDTracks) was in high-res primarily because it was available for not much more $, in a "might-as-well" type attitude. 
  
 I haven't done a proper double-blind test with any of my existing 24/192 files (ie. take same file, convert to 16/48 with a HQ dither / resampling, and then A/B testing), so I'm hoping that others may have some thoughts based on their experiences.
  
 I currently use a Centrance HiFi-M8 (used to be primarily portable via iPhone, but listening on my desktop a lot more these days), which is why I'm currently eyeing the Jot.


----------



## Myk28

I own a Jotunheim with the internal dac and it sounds amazing as it's balanced and only being $100 extra.


----------



## watchnerd

tylerchris said:


> I haven't done a proper double-blind test with any of my existing 24/192 files (ie. take same file, convert to 16/48 with a HQ dither / resampling, and then A/B testing), so I'm hoping that others may have some thoughts based on their experiences.


 
  
 I have done this, but since ABX/DBT talk is not kosher in this part of Head Fi,  you'll need to go over to the Sound Science sub forum if I'm to talk about it.


----------



## Letmebefrank

The problem with the jot dac isn't the dac itself, I'm sure it's a great dac, but many of the early Jot buyers (including myself) had a Mimby already and decided to opt for no dac or with phono. Most of the early high praise for jot was from folks like me who were using a Mimby, and that sort of skewed the rest of the buyers into that route as well. I honestly believe anyone who hasn't heard schiits multibit is missing out on something big. 

On a side note, I fully believe that you don't know what you're missing until you hear something better. In 2 years when a family friend retires, he will be selling me his kef reference 3s for crazy cheap. So he wants me to come listen to them at his place next time I'm back in Detroit. He has a mark Levinson amp and I'm sure a crazy turn table plus all the other bells and whistles. He also mentioned an mfsl vinyl copy of wish you were here. I'm worried that after hearing that setup I will be ruined forever. Just like I'm now ruined by multibit when it comes to digital music.


----------



## Androktasiai

Hey everyone, I recently purchased the Jotunheim w/DAC. I tried hooking powered monitors up to the XLR pre-outs on the back, and was surprised to hear that both my headphones and the monitors were playing at the same time.
  
 Is there a way to select either headphones or speakers? I don't want them both playing at all times.
  
 My headphones currently connect using the 1/4" balanced connector.
  
 Thanks,


----------



## MWSVette

androktasiai said:


> Hey everyone, I recently purchased the Jotunheim w/DAC. I tried hooking powered monitors up to the XLR pre-outs on the back, and was surprised to hear that both my headphones and the monitors were playing at the same time.
> 
> Is there a way to select either headphones or speakers? I don't want them both playing at all times.
> 
> ...


 
 No, both are active all of the time...


----------



## EtRec

watchnerd said:


> Audiophools are trend-following lemmings.
> 
> Even though it is a balanced DAC for an absurdly low price, it doesn't have enough cool buzzwords.


 
  
  


watchnerd said:


> Don't let it bother you.  The implementation is more important than the specific DAC chip.  And don't get freaked out by theoretical objections to DS -- the reality is that the vast majority of ADCs on the market, used in recording genres of all types, use sigma-delta.  Doing the same process in reverse does not amount to insanity.
> 
> A good DAC is a good DAC, don't worry about the architecture.


 
  
  


markf786 said:


> From the comments in this thread, it sounds like the general consensus is that the Jot's internal DAC is a waste of money and everyone should forgo it for something better.
> 
> So why the hell did Schiit make such a **** DAC?  Is it really that bad, or is it a problem with perception?  Did Schiit come out with a DAC/Amp combo where the DAC only checks the box of "DAC Included"?
> 
> I really wish the Schiit team would join in to comment on the relative merit.  It sound like people think this Schitt DAC is ****.  I suspect it's better than most give it credit.


 

 As I've written a few pages back. I have the Jot with internal DAC and am really enjoying it. Had the Bimby for a week and sent it back. The Bimby was louder then the internal balanced 24bit dac, but when I turned the Jots volume knob up a little, I heard little difference. Just my ears.Take it with a grain of music and maybe a glass of wine to go with it


----------



## Androktasiai

mwsvette said:


> No, both are active all of the time...


 
 That's really an oversight. Who would ever listen to headphones and speakers at the same time?


----------



## mwhals

androktasiai said:


> That's really an oversight. Who would ever listen to headphones and speakers at the same time?




The Schiit balanced amps are that way, because the balanced XLR does not have the wiring to mute the preouts when headphones are attached. The Mjolnir 2 is the same way. Yes, they could have designed in a manual switch.

There are three ways to handle it:

1. Get a Schiit Sys and put it on your preout line so you can reduce the speakers volume to zero with it.

2. Get a remote control power strip and use it to power your speakers. You then turn it off with the remote control.

3. Turn the speakers off with their switches.


----------



## MWSVette

mwhals said:


> The Schiit balanced amps are that way, because the balanced XLR does not have the wiring to mute the preouts when headphones are attached. The Mjolnir 2 is the same way. Yes, they could have designed in a manual switch.
> 
> There are three ways to handle it:
> 
> ...


 
 Personally I found #2 to work the best...
  
 IMHO,YMMV, yada yada yada


----------



## watchnerd

mwsvette said:


> Personally I found #2 to work the best...
> 
> IMHO,YMMV, yada yada yada


 
  
 You know those remote power strips are not audiophile approved....


----------



## MWSVette

watchnerd said:


> You know those remote power strips are not audiophile approved....


 
 Oh god, where do I have to go to get audiophile approval???


----------



## paradoxology

mwsvette said:


> Oh god, where do I have to go to get audiophile approval???


 
 Amen, brother!


----------



## watchnerd

mwsvette said:


> Oh god, where do I have to go to get audiophile approval???


 
  
 Try WBF.
  
 They seem to be into christening things.


----------



## stalepie

letmebefrank said:


> The problem with the jot dac isn't the dac itself, I'm sure it's a great dac, but many of the early Jot buyers (including myself) had a Mimby already and decided to opt for no dac or with phono. Most of the early high praise for jot was from folks like me who were using a Mimby, and that sort of skewed the rest of the buyers into that route as well. I honestly believe anyone who hasn't heard schiits multibit is missing out on something big.


 
  
 I figure they're working on a multibit expansion card for Jotunheim? (given that there's only one DAC module choice so far) .


----------



## watchnerd

stalepie said:


> I figure they're working on a multibit expansion card for Jotunheim? (given that there's only one DAC module choice so far) .


 
  
 Earlier comments seemed to indicate a MB expansion card may not fit.


----------



## lenroot77

watchnerd said:


> Earlier comments seemed to indicate a MB expansion card may not fit.




People used to joke about a MB Modi years back... give it time they'll come up with someway to squeeze the MB into the Jot, just might take some time.


----------



## watchnerd

lenroot77 said:


> People used to joke about a MB Modi years back... give it time they'll come up with someway to squeeze the MB into the Jot, just might take some time.


 
  
 It's not that simple -- a MB Jot would need twice as many chips compared to MB Modi because its balanced.


----------



## lenroot77

watchnerd said:


> It's not that simple -- a MB Jot would need twice as many chips compared to MB Modi because its balanced.




I'm sure they'll figure something out. Could be Jot 2 or an entirely new combo unit.


----------



## watchnerd

lenroot77 said:


> I'm sure they'll figure something out. Could be Jot 2 or an entirely new combo unit.


 
  
 I think it would have to be something new.  The daughter card in the Jotunheim is tiny and the SHARC chip is a big-ass chip.


----------



## EtRec

Still, it looks like the future of digital music is higher then CD 16bit. Even the Yaggdrasil is only 21bit. What about mutibit tech keeps it from sampling at 24bits or higher


----------



## jimmers

etrec said:


> Still, it looks like the future of digital music is higher then CD 16bit. Even the Yaggdrasil is only 21bit. What about mutibit tech keeps it from sampling at 24bits or higher


 
 Availability of suitable DAC chips.
 The AD5791BRUZ used by Yggy is 20 bit only and costs ~$80 in quantities, Yggy has 4 of them.


----------



## theveterans

jimmers said:


> Availability of suitable DAC chips.
> The AD5791BRUZ used by Yggy is 20 bit only and costs ~$80 in quantities, Yggy has 4 of them.


 
  
 You don't even need a multi-bit DAC chip on some multi-bit implementations. Some use a DSP or FPGA chip for upconversion/filtering then it goes through a resistor ladder that you can physically see unlike the AD5791 where the resistor ladder is inside the chip itself.
  
 E.g. Holo Audio Spring DAC or Soekris R2R DAC:
  

  
  
 Those resistors look really cool though.
  
  I do like the compact implementation of Schiit Multibit DACs since all of the r2r are inside the AD5547 or AD5791 chip so you just need an I/V stage or discrete buffer stage to amplify the signal to line level.


----------



## watchnerd

etrec said:


> Still, it looks like the future of digital music is higher then CD 16bit.


 
  
 Why do you think that?
  
 The fastest growing segment of music consumption is streaming. It's mostly not even 16 bit.


----------



## EtRec

Good point. Did not think of that. Personally, never stream music. Or I'm listening to music on the radio (old school) or listening to music converted from CD > flac. I have bought some 24bit encoded Jazz and just thought it was all headed that way.


----------



## mwhals

I only listen to the radio in the truck and flac files burned from 16/44.1 CDs with maybe a couple of 24 bit CDs.


----------



## Baldr

watchnerd said:


> Why do you think that?
> 
> The fastest growing segment of music consumption is streaming. It's mostly not even 16 bit.


 

 Quite true - it is just that our DSP optimized time and frequency domains give us higher resolution for the interpolated samples between the original ones which are preserved.


----------



## watchnerd

baldr said:


> Quite true - it is just that our DSP optimized time and frequency domains give us higher resolution for the interpolated samples between the original ones which are preserved.


 
  
 That makes complete sense to me.
  
 On the other hand, the stupid "let's force-fit high-rez PCM into a semi-lossy format and introduce sideband noise so we can restore ultrasonic content via pay-to-play origami voodoo" that is MQA, does not.


----------



## jimmers

theveterans said:


> E.g. Holo Audio Spring DAC or Soekris R2R DAC:


 
 From what I can see it looks like the R2R ladder is switched by the tri-state outputs of the shift registers, kinda relies on the high/low voltage outputs of all the registers matching *very* closely... (?)


----------



## a44100Hz

First listen to the Jot today. What immediately stands out is how precise and tightly controlled the presentation is. If the Valhalla 2 is like having an alcohol buzz, in the way that echo and reverb lingers a bit longer and more loosely, as if you have the faintest sensation of being underwater... the Jot is like taking uppers: intense focus and no time for nonsense. I'm really enjoying it so far. It kicks ass for high intensity digital-heavy production like Death Grips. I like both amps; the Valhalla is more relaxing and the Jot is more aggressive, so can easily see both filling specific moods for me. If you like uppers... try the Jot!


----------



## soekris

jimmers said:


> From what I can see it looks like the R2R ladder is switched by the tri-state outputs of the shift registers, kinda relies on the high/low voltage outputs of all the registers matching *very* closely... (?)


 

 From experience: Parts coming from same reels are actually matched _*very*_ closely....


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

etrec said:


> Still, it looks like the future of digital music is higher then CD 16bit. Even the Yaggdrasil is only 21bit. What about mutibit tech keeps it from sampling at 24bits or higher


 

 At the risk of self-aggrandizement, I will quote myself from another thread, when someone suggested that we invest in 32-bit DACs. 24-bit DACs are likewise ridiculous, but not quite so egregious. Anyway:
  


bosiemoncrieff said:


> 32 bits?! Even 24 bits are a pointless waste of time. Bit depth is NOT bit rate (resolution, detail retrieval); it is noise floor, lack of quantization noise. At 32 bits, the signal-to-noise ratio is 192 decibels, meaning that you must listen to your music at 192 decibels above your ambient environment or the ambient noise (refrigerator, traffic, kids, _your dac and amp_) would mask the quantization noise (which is why 16 bit is fine in real life).
> 
> What is 192 decibels? Well deafness occurs at 180 db, so even if you listened to your 32-bit recordings in an anechoic chamber, if you heard their full dynamic range, you're not listening to them now. If you're listening in a university library, at a quiet 30 decibels, even a Saturn V at launch can't quite give you 192 true decibels of dynamic range to overcome the noise floor, though its 200-odd decibels would certainly kill you.
> 
> 32 bits are bullschiit. 24 bits are bullschiit. Buy an Yggy and call it a day. But be safe out there: sound over 85 decibels can lead to hearing loss.


 
  
 I add only that hearing 144 db of dynamic range (the SNR of 24 bits) in a quiet environment would likewise put you over the 180db threshold for eardrum rupture and permanent deafness.


----------



## EtRec

Thank you for the thorough explanation. I'm still not understanding what happens when a Bitfrost Multibit  takes 24bit music and transforms it to 16bit (from Schitt's website). Sorry for my ignorance but does some of the music get thrown out or compressed? Personally, I heard very little difference, from the Bitfrost Multibit 16bit and the Jot's internal 24bit dac, except in volume level (had to turn the volume knob up a little when using the internal Jot dac to compare at the same sound level) .The Bimby played back louder. This while playing 24bit classical music.
   I'm afraid I've caught a bug many on this site seem to have. Instead of just enjoying the music, I'm worried I'm not hearing it at it's full potential.


----------



## theveterans

etrec said:


> Thank you for the thorough explanation. I'm still not understanding what happens when a Bitfrost Multibit  takes 24bit music and transforms it to 16bit (from Schitt's website). Sorry for my ignorance but does some of the music get thrown out or compressed? Personally, I heard very little difference, from the Bitfrost Multibit 16bit and the Jot's internal 24bit dac, except in volume level (had to turn the volume knob up a little when using the internal Jot dac to compare at the same sound level) .The Bimby played back louder. This while playing 24bit classical music.
> I'm afraid I've caught a bug many on this site seem to have. Instead of just enjoying the music, I'm worried I'm not hearing it at it's full potential.


 
  
 Upsamling DACs work by doing mathematical solutions to fill in the gaps in the sample rate then goes through a signal filter (in this case the burrito filter) and Baldr's filter preserves the original samples so nothing is thrown out when fed in to the DAC chip. The DAC resolution itself is 16-bit so it makes 65536 different voltages to represent the analog signal. The point is no samples are thrown out in the digital realm where as D/S use noise shapers and dithering to form the analog signal since most D/S chips have only about 6-bits of resolution.


----------



## MarkF786

I just ordered a Jotunheim with the DAC module.  The wait is on until mid-February.
  
 I'll spend some time with the DAC module and compare it to my Chord Mojo.  And if I feel the desire to get something more, maybe by then Schiit will have released a balanced multibit DAC in a similar form factor as the Jotunheim, maybe a Bimby 2.  It would only make sense for them to release such a product to pair with the Jotunheim.


----------



## NemanVtc

I can't wait to get my


----------



## andrejc

Does anyone have a Fostex Th-x00 mahogany with Schiit Jotunheim? My DAC is Modi MB. 
Do they pair well? 
Considering to jump on the mass drop today. The thx00 have a permanently attached cable, should I wait for a e-mu teak drop instead? 
My other HP are HD650 & T90. Also considering Focal Elear in the future. Possibly HD800.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

andrejc said:


> Does anyone have a Fostex Th-x00 mahogany with Schiit Jotunheim? My DAC is Modi MB.
> Do they pair well?
> Considering to jump on the mass drop today. The thx00 have a permanently attached cable, should I wait for a e-mu teak drop instead?
> My other HP are HD650 & T90. Also considering Focal Elear in the future. Possibly HD800.


 

 they should pair very well.


----------



## maxh22

andrejc said:


> Does anyone have a Fostex Th-x00 mahogany with Schiit Jotunheim? My DAC is Modi MB.
> Do they pair well?
> Considering to jump on the mass drop today. The thx00 have a permanently attached cable, should I wait for a e-mu teak drop instead?
> My other HP are HD650 & T90. Also considering Focal Elear in the future. Possibly HD800.




I saw some available on the FS forum.


----------



## Vigrith

andrejc said:


> My other HP are HD650 & T90. Also considering Focal Elear in the future. Possibly HD800.


 
  
 Can confirm they both pair very well with the Jotunheim (wonderfully so for the 650). Same goes for the Elear (don't own these but had a pair at home for a while), the HD800... Well, thing is, the Jotunheim's characterless, if you actually do like the 800s the way they are (as in murderous) then it'll do its job but it won't do you any favours.


----------



## i20bot

a44100hz said:


> First listen to the Jot today. What immediately stands out is how precise and tightly controlled the presentation is. If the Valhalla 2 is like having an alcohol buzz, in the way that echo and reverb lingers a bit longer and more loosely, as if you have the faintest sensation of being underwater... the Jot is like taking uppers: intense focus and no time for nonsense. I'm really enjoying it so far. It kicks ass for high intensity digital-heavy production like Death Grips. I like both amps; the Valhalla is more relaxing and the Jot is more aggressive, so can easily see both filling specific moods for me. If you like uppers... try the Jot!


 
 Try connecting the Jot to the Valhalla so it tube buffers it.


----------



## MarkF786

Do you guys hear a big difference between the SE and balanced headphone outputs (other than differences in output level)?  I've heard some different opinions in general about the benefits (or lack thereof) of balanced outputs.


----------



## Alchemist007

It's definitely an audible difference to me.


----------



## JLoud

andrejc said:


> Does anyone have a Fostex Th-x00 mahogany with Schiit Jotunheim? My DAC is Modi MB.
> Do they pair well?
> Considering to jump on the mass drop today. The thx00 have a permanently attached cable, should I wait for a e-mu teak drop instead?
> My other HP are HD650 & T90. Also considering Focal Elear in the future. Possibly HD800.


 
 I have the Jot as well as the Elear, HD650, and Th-x00.  They all sound wonderful on the Jot. The HD650 really benefits from the power available from the balanced output.  The Fostex and Elear are more subtle improvements.


----------



## a44100Hz

i20bot said:


> Try connecting the Jot to the Valhalla so it tube buffers it.


 
  
 I tried this and I do not like the Valhalla 2 as a pre-amp for the Jotunheim (using SE out to HD650M). When separate, the Valhalla 2 highlights the euphoria of tracks and the Jot highlights the energy signature of tracks. The Val reproduces instruments and the space they contain by adding 3D realism to their sonic qualities* such that vocals take a back seat to and can be swept up by vibration and decay (akin to the vocals in a Radiohead track -- they're more like part of the music than the focus). The Jotunheim presents vocals in a crisp aggressive manner that reminds me of hip hop where instrumentation is part of the "beat" and supports or sets the rapper's pace. These amps produce different sensations when listening, both pleasurable; the former engrossing and the latter invigorating, deep relaxation vs toe tapping. You'd think that subtly blending the two would create the best of both worlds but the combination shortchanges both amps to my ear.
  
 The combination "improves" the Jotunheim in the sense that the Valhalla 2 adds height to the soundstage, but this comes at the expense of 1) the full immersion of the decay and placement of instruments from the Vallhalla and 2) the energy and attack of the Jot. So it doesn't maintain the best qualities of either amp, it just rounds everything out. The result is sort of bloated or fluffy sounding, but worse, mostly boring. You lose the spatial immersion of the Val and the immediacy of the Jot. A few times per track I'm teased by glimmers of the aspects I like about the individual amps, but this is just irksome; I would rather listen to the amps separately.

 * The Valhalla 2 clearly has a taller and deeper soundstage than the Jotunheim so you can better place yourself relative to sounds you hear in 3D space (e.g. "I hear someone talking 2 feet behind and 3 feet to the right of me"). With the Jot, it's more like sounds slide left-to-right in 2D space (e.g. "I hear someone talking into my ear"). It's similar to the difference in immersion between the HD650 and cheap headphones that constantly remind you that you're listening on headphones -- you don't "disappear" into the music. The Jot constantly reminds me that I am no longer immersed in 3D sound space as far as live recordings go... but for digitally produced music with a lot of reverb this isn't an issue and I think if I didn't have the Valhalla 2 for comparison, I wouldn't miss the 3D effect as much. My volume limit is lower with the Jot due to the more aggressive treble, which also doesn't help for immersion purposes. Stock Russian tubes
  
 Now the *Vali* 2 (same input tube) is hitting the spot as a pre. I'm getting about 80% of the instrument and spatial realism I expect from the Valhalla 2 and 90% of the attack I expect from the Jotunheim. Instruments and vocals feel roughly balanced in presentation; treble is taken down a bit, hurts less at high volumes. The combination immediately felt good in the way a suit jacket that fits right in the shoulders does. It doesn't have the same soundstage depth of the Valhalla 2 to create the "I feel high right now" immersive space but it has enough to not sound like you're obviously listening on headphones. This now sounds like a souped-up Vali 2 to me instead of nerfed versions of the Val and Jot like the other combination. I'm not yet sure if I will eventually prefer this to the Jot alone, but I'm digging it right now.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Now that's interesting. My question is how close you get, with Vali and Jotunheim, to Mjolnir 2 driven by the tube/s in question.


----------



## Mikko Peltonen

markf786 said:


> From the comments in this thread, it sounds like the general consensus is that the Jot's internal DAC is a waste of money and everyone should forgo it for something better.
> 
> So why the hell did Schiit make such a **** DAC?  Is it really that bad, or is it a problem with perception?  Did Schiit come out with a DAC/Amp combo where the DAC only checks the box of "DAC Included"?
> 
> I really wish the Schiit team would join in to comment on the relative merit.  It sound like people think this Schitt DAC is ****.  I suspect it's better than most give it credit.


 
  
 You clearly haven't read a whole lot of the thread. I've read every single post and most people really like it for what it's worth. That's one heck of a DAC for 100 $.


----------



## MarkF786

mikko peltonen said:


> You clearly haven't read a whole lot of the thread. I've read every single post and most people really like it for what it's worth. That's one heck of a DAC for 100 $.


 
  
 Most advice seems to be to skip it and to buy a Mimby instead, though there are some people who have actually tried it and like it.
  
 I ordered my Jot with the internal DAC and am hopeful.


----------



## a44100Hz

markf786 said:


> Most advice seems to be to skip it and to buy a Mimby instead, though there are some people who have actually tried it and like it.
> 
> I ordered my Jot with the internal DAC and am hopeful.




They're just different implementations. The Jot's internal DAC is a delta-sigma type and the Modi Multibit is, well, a multibit or R2R type. I personally prefer the latter but it's probably not going to be a knocks-your-socks-off difference. If I was going to give the Jot as a gift, I would add the DAC to make it an easy all-in-one solution and not think twice about it.


----------



## CarlosUnchained

a44100hz said:


> They're just different implementations. The Jot's internal DAC is a delta-sigma type and the Modi Multibit is, well, a multibit or R2R type. I personally prefer the latter but it's probably not going to be a knocks-your-socks-off difference. If I was going to give the Jot as a gift, I would add the DAC to make it an easy all-in-one solution and not think twice about it.


 

 Hey, it's me, your awardee!


----------



## djchup

a44100hz said:


> I personally prefer the latter


 
 You mean...you prefer the ladder?


----------



## a44100Hz

djchup said:


> You mean...you prefer the ladder? :tongue_smile:




Very good. You get a cookie.


----------



## jchandler3

markf786 said:


> Most advice seems to be to skip it and to buy a Mimby instead, though there are some people who have actually tried it and like it.
> 
> I ordered my Jot with the internal DAC and am hopeful.


 

 It's a great DAC, especially as a $100 add on. Worth every penny. 
  
 I think that, if you misinterpreted the "general" feel of the thread, it's just a testament to _how good_ Schiit stuff really is, and what a value it is. The Jot at $400 is jaw-dropping. It's DAC at $100 is impressive (just not _as_ impressive as the Jot).
  
 The Mimby is a different beast all together, a separate piece, and significantly more expensive (2.5x). So, yeah, it's better than the Jot's DAC, but that should be a given.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

The question is whether it's 2.5x better, and I'm not sure it is.


----------



## Clemmaster

2.47.
Close enough


----------



## tylerchris

a44100hz said:


> * The Valhalla 2 clearly has a taller and deeper soundstage than the Jotunheim so you can better place yourself relative to sounds you hear in 3D space (e.g. "I hear someone talking 2 feet behind and 3 feet to the right of me"). With the Jot, it's more like sounds slide left-to-right in 2D space (e.g. "I hear someone talking into my ear"). It's similar to the difference in immersion between the HD650 and cheap headphones that constantly remind you that you're listening on headphones -- you don't "disappear" into the music. The Jot constantly reminds me that I am no longer immersed in 3D sound space as far as live recordings go... but for digitally produced music with a lot of reverb this isn't an issue and I think if I didn't have the Valhalla 2 for comparison, I wouldn't miss the 3D effect as much. My volume limit is lower with the Jot due to the more aggressive treble, which also doesn't help for immersion purposes. Stock Russian tubes


 
  
 That's interesting, you're the second person who's mentioned that the depth of the soundstage really gets squeezed to be more 2D with the Jot, and both of you have used the HD650s... I wonder if it's specifically the combo with the HD650s, as haven't really heard that feedback from others in this thread.


----------



## i20bot

a44100hz said:


> Snipperclip


 
 Thanks for that elaborate feedback.  Been going back and forth between the Valhalla 2 and Jot.  Which do you prefer for a HD650?  I kinda just wanna go Jot then get the Saga for a pre with remote.


----------



## Mikko Peltonen

I'll start by getting the Jotunheim with the built in DAC and perhaps later upgrade to a Modi Multibit. At the moment I'm struggling between HD600/650 and HE-400i, the DAC choice is much simpler.


----------



## Mojo777

Anyone try the Meredian Explorer 2 in the Jot? Want to use the MQA decoding for Tidal. The E2 amp section is underwhelming for sure.


----------



## iamxLn

Get the 650 with jot


----------



## a44100Hz

i20bot said:


> Thanks for that elaborate feedback.  Been going back and forth between the Valhalla 2 and Jot.  Which do you prefer for a HD650?  I kinda just wanna go Jot then get the Saga for a pre with remote.


 

 Probably depends on what kind of music you listen to. But from all I've been reading about the Saga, including its excellent measurements, and the recommendation of the "Jotaga" from ears I trust, I'll probably be doing that myself in the future. At the very least, you probably won't regret doing it. You can also pick up a used Valhalla 2 for fairly cheap down the line if you decide you have to have one.

 Right now I think the Vali 2 + Jot is a great combination. I haven't had the impulse to switch back to the Valhalla 2 to compare again, heh.


----------



## Mikko Peltonen

iamxln said:


> Get the 650 with jot




Just bought the Hifimans for 350 €. Sounds great! Now I'm waiting for the Jotunheim...


----------



## sovereign

Schiit is catching up. Mine is on the way!


----------



## MWSVette

sovereign said:


> Schiit is catching up. Mine is on the way!


 

 The Jot is worth the wait...


----------



## martinrajdl

Asking just out of curiosity, but why did they change the chassis to look like the Magni/Modi stack instead of the look of Bifrost etc. Looks worse IMO, was it to save money?


----------



## Byronb

martinrajdl said:


> Asking just out of curiosity, but why did they change the chassis to look like the Magni/Modi stack instead of the look of Bifrost etc. Looks worse IMO, was it to save money?


 
 According to Jason lowering cost was indeed the genesis of the new design.


----------



## a44100Hz

And I approve because I would much rather have good tech for less money. How long do you spend gazing at the chassis?


----------



## martinrajdl

I feel like the aesthetics are overall a big plus when it comes to Schiit products. I am not saying it is a bad thing saving a couple of bucks and spending that money on sound quality, but I have to say it is a bit strange choice to make now, when there are many products released with different aesthetics.
 To me it seems that Schiit sees the Jot as a better value product, than its other siblings (Asgard, Valhalla, Lyr, when they can afford to have the more expensive chassis at a lower or similar overall cost).


----------



## MarkF786

People will start saying, "that looks like Schiit!"


----------



## Defiant00

martinrajdl said:


> I feel like the aesthetics are overall a big plus when it comes to Schiit products. I am not saying it is a bad thing saving a couple of bucks and spending that money on sound quality, but I have to say it is a bit strange choice to make now, when there are many products released with different aesthetics.
> To me it seems that Schiit sees the Jot as a better value product, than its other siblings (Asgard, Valhalla, Lyr, when they can afford to have the more expensive chassis at a lower or similar overall cost).


 
  
 Not counting the unique little ones (Fulla/Fulla 2), you basically have U-shaped aluminum (possibly done in one or two pieces depending on the product) or L-shaped aluminum (or steel in the smallest products).
  
 The latest ones, Jot, Saga and Freya, all use the new L-shaped aluminum design. I'd also expect the rest of their line to move to the same if/when we hit v3 on most of the products. Personally I think it's a great price/aesthetics tradeoff, and it's not like each of their products looks different, we're really only on their second design style.


----------



## Voxata

Hmmm Jotaga huh? That'll be a fireball stack lol.


----------



## blasjw

defiant00 said:


> Not counting the unique little ones (Fulla/Fulla 2), you basically have U-shaped aluminum (possibly done in one or two pieces depending on the product) or L-shaped aluminum (or steel in the smallest products).
> 
> The latest ones, Jot, Saga and Freya, all use the new L-shaped aluminum design. I'd also expect the rest of their line to move to the same if/when we hit v3 on most of the products. Personally I think it's a great price/aesthetics tradeoff, and it's not like each of their products looks different, we're really only on their second design style.


 
  
 Excellent description!  Since the L-shaped design is basically only "missing" the bottom piece from the U-shaped design, it seems pretty inconsequential unless you care about how the bottom of it looks.


----------



## Byronb

martinrajdl said:


> I feel like the aesthetics are overall a big plus when it comes to Schiit products. I am not saying it is a bad thing saving a couple of bucks and spending that money on sound quality, but I have to say it is a bit strange choice to make now, when there are many products released with different aesthetics.
> To me it seems that Schiit sees the Jot as a better value product, than its other siblings (Asgard, Valhalla, Lyr, when they can afford to have the more expensive chassis at a lower or similar overall cost).


 
 I will take sound quality over aesthetics every day. I do however see your point.


----------



## silvrr

Part of the reason for the 'U' shape on a few of the first amps was that the case was used as a heatsink.


----------



## watchnerd

martinrajdl said:


> Asking just out of curiosity, but why did they change the chassis to look like the Magni/Modi stack instead of the look of Bifrost etc. Looks worse IMO, was it to save money?


 
  
 In person, I think it looks better -- the finish is much smoother than the previous case design.


----------



## martinrajdl

Oh I did not know about Freya and Saga also having the same design as Jotunheim (I guess I wasn't paying attention to preamps)
 It is not like I think it looks bad, in fact, I still think it is some of the best looking audio gear out there, it was just a bit strange to me since I did not know they were probably moving their entire lineup in this direction, and it seemed like an odd choice. 
 I still think the U-shape design is the better looking out of the two, but it really doesn't matter especially if there is no practical use for it, and omitting it saves money....


----------



## MarkF786

The good news is it may signal an upgrade in their older products, moving them into this enclosure along with maybe some other upgrades.  I'm hopefully for a Bimby with balanced outs.


----------



## Clemmaster

silvrr said:


> Part of the reason for the 'U' shape on a few of the first amps was that the case was used as a heatsink.


 
  
 What a clever design that was!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

markf786 said:


> The good news is it may signal an upgrade in their older products, moving them into this enclosure along with maybe some other upgrades.  I'm hopefully for a Bimby with balanced outs.


 
 You  might as well hope for Fang to release a budget successor to the HE-6 because Mike can't do that. Won't fit on the board.


----------



## watchnerd

bosiemoncrieff said:


> You  might as well hope for Fang to release a budget successor to the HE-6 because Mike can't do that. Won't fit on the board.


 
  
 I bet you could fit a 4490 XLR Bifrost, though.


----------



## andrejc

Th900mk2 or E-mu Teak with the Jot and Modi MB?


----------



## DavidA

andrejc said:


> Th900mk2 or E-mu Teak with the Jot and Modi MB?


 
 what sound signature are you looking for?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

watchnerd said:


> I bet you could fit a 4490 XLR Bifrost, though.




Sure you could but then just buy a jotundac. Comes with a free amp!


----------



## watchnerd

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Sure you could but then just buy a jotundac. Comes with a free amp!


 
  
 No, it would have more inputs than USB.


----------



## Xelpud

andrejc said:


> Th900mk2 or E-mu Teak with the Jot and Modi MB?




From what I heard at the meet over the weekend, the E-mu is a very respectable contender in its price bracket, and a pair of cans that I think most anyone would like, so long as having a ton of isolation isn't your highest priority in a pair of closed cans. While I've not heard the TH900mk2, I have heard the ZMF Eikon, and would STRONGLY recommend giving it a listen as well, if your budget allows for it. (I've heard from some who've heard both, that the higher impedance of the ZMFs helps in smoothing out the highs, relative to the TH900s, and that their preference consequently leans towards the former, but as ever, YMMV, and your best bet is to give them a listen yourself at a dealer or a meet).


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

watchnerd said:


> No, it would have more inputs than USB.


 

 This is one of those edge cases that I think very few people would genuinely need. Schiit would need an entirely new metal piece with room for an XLR port, and presumably XLR pre-outs on the back, and all so that you could get more digital inputs than the Jotunheim provides? If you're that picky about balanced out, and require that specificity in digital in, Schiit has a great product for you, called Gungnir. If you want to throw in multibit, hey guess what? For a few hundred more a gumby could be yours today!
  
 If you think there's a lot of money to be made in the balanced-dac-under-$500-with-coax-and-optical-inputs market, I'm sure Mike would welcome your competition.


----------



## watchnerd

bosiemoncrieff said:


> This is one of those edge cases that I think very few people would genuinely need.


 
  
 I don't know about that...the growth of AoIP would argue in favor of the other connectors.  It certainly does for me.


----------



## sharkz88

sovereign said:


> Schiit is catching up. Mine is on the way!



Do you mean that ur jot is currently shipping..i want to order jot,but the website state that backorder till week of 13 feb...


----------



## sovereign

sharkz88 said:


> Do you mean that ur jot is currently shipping..i want to order jot,but the website state that backorder till week of 13 feb...


 

 I ordered on the 6th and it arrived yesterday.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

the order times are very conservative, they don't want to disappoint anyone


----------



## sovereign

No disappointment here. Initial impressions: Wow!


----------



## MWSVette

sovereign said:


> No disappointment here. Initial impressions: Wow!


 

 Welcome to the Jot club...


----------



## Malinwa001

in Europa still nowhere in stock 
 we are unable to preorder.


----------



## Kerwin515

mwsvette said:


> Oh god, where do I have to go to get audiophile approval???


 
 I thought the line started in front of Diana Krall.


----------



## Byronb

LOL...So True!


----------



## Xelpud

Seems the lead times on the website are fairly conservative. Mine was scheduled to ship on the week of the 13th, Fed Ex told me last week to expect it this Friday, and it showed up at my doorstep yesterday. Very pleased with it so far when paired with my GS1000s (though, I'll admit that shoving a 1/4" TRS and a galvanized nail into a lemon would produce enough current to drive them to the threshold of pain). Now just to count down the days until my ZMF Eikon finally gets in.


----------



## sharkz88

ok then...i will just order it...now..


----------



## zoozooka

Jotunheim with DAC unit doesn't work on my laptops (2 Dell, 1 Asus). Installed Schiit_USB_1_03 driver on Windows 10. I have checked and tried ALL the volume setting, disable enhancement, etc. 

The headphone volume output is just way too low to hear anything even in a quiet room. If the laptop is powered from power plug, the headphone volume appeared to be slightly louder, but still way too low to hear.

Someone previously mentioned that the DAC is dependant on usb power. Maybe the laptops are not able to power the dac, thus low volume on headphones

Jotunheim works fine if it's connected to my desktop, headphone volume is loud and normal.

I'm not happy with Jotunheim as it's not working on laptops and the tech support is the real ****. The tech support didn't care about anything by just repeatedly replied with dumb answers or just no response at all.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Literally just popped in here, but regarding driver issues:  Try disabling secure boot.  Windows 10 Anniversary update is a pain when it comes to drivers.


----------



## MWSVette

zoozooka said:


> Jotunheim with DAC unit doesn't work on my laptops (2 Dell, 1 Asus). Installed Schiit_USB_1_03 driver on Windows 10. I have checked and tried ALL the volume setting, disable enhancement, etc.
> 
> The headphone volume output is just way too low to hear anything even in a quiet room. If the laptop is powered from power plug, the headphone volume appeared to be slightly louder, but still way too low to hear.
> 
> ...


 

 Works fine with my laptops...


----------



## jimmers

> ... Someone previously mentioned that the DAC is dependant on usb power. Maybe the laptops are not able to power the dac, thus low volume on headphones ...


 
 I believe only the USB receiver is powered by the source USB the rest by the Jot's power, the only way a working Jot will give a low output is if the input has been cut down by a digital volume control, is your player set to 100% volume and your windows sound set to 100% ?


----------



## zoozooka

jimmers said:


> I believe only the USB receiver is powered by the source USB the rest by the Jot's power, the only way a working Jot will give a low output is if the input has been cut down by a digital volume control, is your player set to 100% volume and your windows sound set to 100% ?



 


Yes, all volume are set to 100%. 

I just tried connecting jotunheim to a laptop with a 3.5mm to RCA cable. Laptop -> onboard soundcard -> jotunheim -> headphone

Headphone is loud and sound.

So i believe the problem is on the DAC unit or usb power/signal


----------



## silvrr

Are you selecting the Jot as your output device in windows? Also do you have the correct input selected?


----------



## jmc15john

Zoozooka can you tell us what device manager says you're audio inputs/output says?  I had some trouble initially getting the correct Schiit driver to install on my laptop.  Here's what it should look like for the Jot.


----------



## Kerwin515

Well I've read about as much of this thread that I could stand and I'm almost convinced that this can be my endgame DAC/Amp for my desktop. 
  
 Right now, I'm using an Apogee Groove to drive my LCD-XC and I'm quite happy with it.  It drives my XCs quite easily, but it seems like the Jotunheim with the DAC module could give me a little extra oomph.  I know this is a weird comparison, but is there anyone out there that has listened to both? Obviously the Jotenheim has more power than the Groove, but does the DAC module sound better than the Groove?


----------



## sharkz88

My jodie is on the way...yeahhh...the est time on the website really conservative....


----------



## sovereign

sharkz88 said:


> My jodie is on the way...yeahhh...the est time on the website really conservative....


 

 Awesome! I hope you are as impressed as I am.


----------



## MarkF786

zoozooka said:


> Jotunheim with DAC unit doesn't work on my laptops (2 Dell, 1 Asus). Installed Schiit_USB_1_03 driver on Windows 10. I have checked and tried ALL the volume setting, disable enhancement, etc.





> .....





> I'm not happy with Jotunheim as it's not working on laptops and the tech support is the real ****. The tech support didn't care about anything by just repeatedly replied with dumb answers or just no response at all.


 
  
 Uggh, I feel sorry for those tech support guys having to support Windoze.  The number of possible causes to a problem are endless, and troubleshooting can be really time consuming.  Even in a well-controlled corporate environment it's tough, but in the wild west of home computers where people could have done lord-knows-what to their PCs, it's a total horror show.


----------



## NemanVtc

Finally got my today


----------



## zoozooka

Yes, Jot is set as default playback device


----------



## zoozooka

jmc15john said:


> Zoozooka can you tell us what device manager says you're audio inputs/output says?  I had some trouble initially getting the correct Schiit driver to install on my laptop.  Here's what it should look like for the Jot.



 



Here's my screenshot. I think it's properly installed. Tried to disable the other playback devices and microphone, doesn't fix the low volume issue


----------



## zoozooka

Is your laptop very old with usb 2.0 only?
  
 My desktop is very old with usb 2.0 ports. Jot works fine with the desktop
  
 My laptops got usb 3.0 (xHCI) and that might be the cause of Jot not working properly


----------



## Letmebefrank

I don't have the Jotunheim with DAC, mine is amp only, but I have had 3 different schiit dacs and all of them work fine from usb 2.0 and 3.0 from both my laptop and desktop. Both are high end machines though. The point is that it's not the dacs fault, it's your laptop. The fact that it works fine from your desktop is proof enough of that. Get a powered usb hub and that should fix your problem with the laptop.


----------



## oldschool

@Jason Stoddard Any news on new Joti stock for the EU market? Been waiting since late November.. EU distributors say they have no clue


----------



## Mojo777

Awesome amp. Just got it last night. Good size for my desktop setup. Really am enjoying the pairing with the Explorer 2 and Tidal-MQA. Fun!


----------



## Share2Care

Nice one!
  
 I am saving my pennies up for one. Can not wait!


----------



## econaut

Got some very useful tipps here in december, now I need another one 
  
 I got my HD 650s today and love the sound. Got my Gumby a few days ago, but can't use it, because the accompanying new Mjolnir 2 had a dead left channel. Now it's on its way back to the european distributor and I got the advice that the Jotunheim might be the better amp pairing for the HD 650.
  
 What do you think?
  
 Gumby + Mjolnir 2 + HD 650
  
 or 
  
 Gumby + Jotunheim + HD 650
  
  
 I want to go all balanced and I also like the Audeze sound, so maybe upgrading to LCD3 or something similar in the future.
  
  
 p.s.: I didn't like the Elear that I originally wanted to get.


----------



## DavidA

econaut said:


> Got some very useful tipps here in december, now I need another one
> 
> I got my HD 650s today and love the sound. Got my Gumby a few days ago, but can't use it, because the accompanying new Mjolnir 2 had a dead left channel. Now it's on its way back to the european distributor and I got the advice that the Jotunheim might be the better amp pairing for the HD 650.
> 
> ...


 
 If you don't intend to roll tubes then go with the Jot, it you are thinking about the future and you might want to roll tubes then the Mjolnir


----------



## econaut

I just wonder if the Jot is great with the 650, is it as great with some LCDs?
  
 And for rolling tubes in the future I might just get an additional Freya?


----------



## jcdreamer

It has been great with my HE1000 which is a fairly demanding planar magnetic.


----------



## alota

jcdreamer said:


> It has been great with my HE1000 which is a fairly demanding planar magnetic.



In balanced or single-ended mode?
Thank you


----------



## jcdreamer

I personally prefer the balanced mode and used it almost exclusively with the HE1000. However, since I'm still waiting for my balanced cable to be delivered, I can only listen to my Utopia in SE mode and have been enjoying every second of it. Of course the Utopia's are known to be easily driven.
  
 The Jot is truly a fantastic performer.


----------



## Cecil88

kerwin515 said:


> Well I've read about as much of this thread that I could stand and I'm almost convinced that this can be my endgame DAC/Amp for my desktop.
> 
> Right now, I'm using an Apogee Groove to drive my LCD-XC and I'm quite happy with it.  It drives my XCs quite easily, but it seems like the Jotunheim with the DAC module could give me a little extra oomph.  I know this is a weird comparison, but is there anyone out there that has listened to both? Obviously the Jotenheim has more power than the Groove, but does the DAC module sound better than the Groove?




I'd also be curious to read people's thoughts on this.


----------



## alota

jcdreamer said:


> I personally prefer the balanced mode and used it almost exclusively with the HE1000. However, since I'm still waiting for my balanced cable to be delivered, I can only listen to my Utopia in SE mode and have been enjoying every second of it. Of course the Utopia's are known to be easily driven.
> 
> The Jot is truly a fantastic performer.



Wow really thanks. If you say that the expensive utopia sounds good with jotunheim, it's a really good news


----------



## MarkF786

I received my Jot today and am really enjoying it, though I've only been able to spent a little time with it so far.  It drives but my HD650 and Amiron very nicely, and the DAC does sound very good.  I look forward to comparing it to my Chord Mojo.
  
 One minor issue I noticed is on the volume knob there is a line of scratches down the shaft, near the ident showing the volume position.  Is this typical?  Maybe I could ask Schiit to send me a new knob.


----------



## Tom Blake

I am looking at the Jotunheim as a possible DAC/amp for LCD-2's and to provide balanced pre-outs to a pair of Genelec M040 active monitors. However, I also need coax and optical digital inputs besides USB. Anyone have any thoughts on which is the better USB DAC - the Jot USB balanced DAC add-in board or the Modi 2 Multibit? Price would be same for Jot w/DAC + Modi 2 Uber or Jot w/o DAC + Modi 2 Multibit. The USB DAC quality is much more important than the coax and optical, which are not critical listening sources. Thanks!


----------



## MarkF786

Any thoughts from the Schiit team on the design choice of passive summing and passive filtering?  What are the pros & cons of this approach?


----------



## X-Calibar

I didn't see anyone post a pic of the limited black chassis Jotunheim which I ordered early December:
 https://s30.postimg.org/4afe6fnip/jotblack.jpg
  
 While I like how most Schiit looks... Schiit it looks great in black too!
  
 My setup: 
 FLAC -> Foobar2k ASIO -> USB* -> Modi 2 Multibit -> PYST RCA -> Jotunheim (w/o DAC) -> SE -> HD 650
 *USB instead of Optical because ASIO should be sending the same format as the audio file to the Modi 2 Multi, without fiddling with Windows settings every other file or upsampling.  I assume that's the best choice?
  
 And I am hoping to upgrade to a balanced DAC in the future (Black Yggy?!), but would it be worth getting a balanced cable ahead of time?
 Would there be any improvement in my current non-balanced setup besides volume?
  
 This was my first foray into the audiophile world btw.  Thanks to all the opinions in this thread, it contributed to my decision to go with the Jot.
 Hopefully I made a good starting choice for someone who uses these headphones everyday for everything


----------



## earnmyturns

x-calibar said:


> I didn't see anyone post a pic of the limited black chassis Jotunheim which I ordered early December:
> https://s30.postimg.org/4afe6fnip/jotblack.jpg
> [...]
> My setup:
> ...


 
 The black Jot is very stylish! On USB vs S/PDIF, there are lots of opinions around, but in my experience with Schiit Multibit DACs, a decent USB>S/PDIF converter can improve sound quality if the USB source is a generic computer as is in your case.


----------



## theveterans

x-calibar said:


> I didn't see anyone post a pic of the limited black chassis Jotunheim which I ordered early December:
> https://s30.postimg.org/4afe6fnip/jotblack.jpg
> 
> While I like how most Schiit looks... Schiit it looks great in black too!
> ...


 
  
 You're well beyond of a lot of people who just started the headphone audiophile world BTW. It's a no-brainer to get the balanced cable especially with Jot since Jot is inherently balanced in the first place. Take advantage of it. Then you can use your Modi 2 Multibit on another setup and upgrade to Gungnir Multibit or Yggdrasil.
  
 Your current setup is pretty much end game unless you want to foray in the high end components or TOTL. In my case, I found my ideal setup already until the next half a decade or a decade comes (Bifrost Multibit -> Saga -> Yamaha HS7 computer speakers (I highly prefer the listening experience of computer speakers than headphones)).


----------



## Tom Blake

Seems like the new Oppo Sonica DAC could be a good match with the Jotunheim as it is fully balanced. Also has some interesting capabilities like built-in network streamer, DSD support, app control, etc. Uses the ES9038PRO DAC chip. First units are arriving now. Could be one to watch - I know I am. $795 MSRP.


----------



## theveterans

tom blake said:


> Seems like the new Oppo Sonica DAC could be a good match with the Jotunheim as it is fully balanced. Also has some interesting capabilities like built-in network streamer, DSD support, app control, etc. Uses the ES9038PRO DAC chip. First units are arriving now. Could be one to watch - I know I am. $795 MSRP.


 
  
 Now if they have AV receiver version of this, I'd be interested.


----------



## iamxLn

I'd think anything with ssssabre dac would be a little too bright for jot.


----------



## Tom Blake

Yes my concern as well! User reports starting to trickle out here and on AVSforum. They started shipping this week.


----------



## econaut

Thanks for the replies, ordered a Jot today


----------



## MarkF786

Spending more time with my new Jotunheim, I'll must say the optional DAC is no slouch.
  
 I connected my Chord Mojo to the Jot's inputs, adjusted the level to match the internal DAC, and drove them both simultaneously from two separate computers running Audirvana.  I was able to play the same tracks, and switch back and forth between the two DACs.  Though at times I thought maybe the Mojo revealed a little more detail, it was very hard to say with certainty after switching back to the Jot.  As I quickly switched between the two, it was easy to forget which DAC I was listening to.  BTW, I was using the HD650 for the comparison, since I know its sound very well.
  
 I'd still like to get a Bimby some day, but space is limited (due to my Jot being on a shelf with limited height), so the internal DAC should hold me over for a while until curiosity gets the best of me.


----------



## Kenneth Tang

Finally got my jot w/DAC right now, I have made the PO last week. Can not wait to feed my elear!


----------



## Musicguy2015

Glad to know you have your jodie now. Hope you enjoy it. Cheers.


----------



## alota

kenneth tang said:


> Finally got my jot w/DAC right now, I have made the PO last week. Can not wait to feed my elear!


 
 i´m interested about the sound with elear


----------



## Tom Blake

Anyone have any thoughts or experience on whether the Mjolnir 2 is worth double the price of the Jodie when paired with a Gungnir D/S DAC and the combo is used to drive LCD-2's and Genelec active studio monitors? I would be running full balanced and don't really care about tube rolling. I imagine the cost difference would be better spent on upgrading the Gungnir to MB? Thanks!


----------



## franzdom

tom blake said:


> Anyone have any thoughts or experience on whether the Mjolnir 2 is worth double the price of the Jodie when paired with a Gungnir D/S DAC and the combo is used to drive LCD-2's and Genelec active studio monitors? I would be running full balanced and don't really care about tube rolling. I imagine the cost difference would be better spent on upgrading the Gungnir to MB? Thanks!


 
  
 No, very similar setups here and you definitely won't do better with MJ for the money or even not, unless you want exotic tubes.


----------



## jimmers

franzdom said:


> No, very similar setups here and you definitely won't do better with MJ for the money or even not, unless you want exotic tubes.


 
 Just an interested observer here, but would you mind explaining what you are saying?


----------



## franzdom

>


 


franzdom said:


> No, very similar setups here and you definitely won't do better with MJ for the money or even not, unless you want exotic tubes.


 
 Just an interested observer here, but would you mind explaining what you are saying? 
  
 1. Anyone have any thoughts or experience on whether the MJ2 is worth double the price of the Jot when paired with (insert Schiit DAC here) to drive Audeze LCD 100 ohm headphones and active studio monitors?
  
 1REPLY. Yes, I have thoughts and experience on this. See equipment in my signature and you will find the equipment is almost exactly what you are looking for someone with thoughts and experience on this topic.
 The MJ2 is not worth double the price in any sense over the Jot for LCD-2 or active monitors. I much prefer Jotunheim over MJ2 with LISST tubes and the only time it gets better is after some tube rolling experience and even more expense. If you have no interest in rolling tubes or at least buying good ones, stay away from MJ2. 
  
 2. MB worth the money?
  
 2REPLY. In my opinion yes, I am very happy with high end balanced multibit Schiit DACs.
  
 Jimmers, what is there to understand, how can I be more clear on this?
 MJ2 has more power than Jot for some loads and less power than Jot for other loads. 
 This is a Jot thread, are you surprised I am not recommending against it?
  
 By the way, my Jot has been much more reliable than my MJ2. This has nothing to do with my recommendation however, just a side note. I love Jot!
  
 If you want even more breakdown on this see:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/818323/schiit-jotunheim-review-preview-head-fi-tv/3435#post_13188315
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/818323/schiit-jotunheim-review-preview-head-fi-tv/3435#post_13188526
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/601151/schiit-owners-unite/12255#post_13155838


----------



## Tom Blake

Thanks franzdom - just what I was looking for and you confirmed my thinking.


----------



## X-Calibar

earnmyturns said:


> The black Jot is very stylish! On USB vs S/PDIF, there are lots of opinions around, but in my experience with Schiit Multibit DACs, a decent USB>S/PDIF converter can improve sound quality if the USB source is a generic computer as is in your case.


 
  
 My PC is a bit dated now but it does have a S/PDIF connection!  So I ended up trying both inputs into the Modi Multibit in a semi A/B setup (dual Foobar2k).  Although I did run into a weird issue after switching the Mimby input button too often.. a weird ghostly ringing in the left channel that wouldn't go away until I restarted the Modi M!  I guess it doesn't like to be constantly switched back and forth continuously...
 Anyway, I couldn't discern a difference between the two inputs with what I tested so far.  The one "advantage" I noted with the USB, was its ability to handle odd sampling rates like 176kHz.  
  


theveterans said:


> You're well beyond of a lot of people who just started the headphone audiophile world BTW. It's a no-brainer to get the balanced cable especially with Jot since Jot is inherently balanced in the first place. Take advantage of it. Then you can use your Modi 2 Multibit on another setup and upgrade to Gungnir Multibit or Yggdrasil.
> 
> Your current setup is pretty much end game unless you want to foray in the high end components or TOTL. In my case, I found my ideal setup already until the next half a decade or a decade comes (Bifrost Multibit -> Saga -> Yamaha HS7 computer speakers (I highly prefer the listening experience of computer speakers than headphones)).


 
  
 I really want to see if using a balanced cable will make any noticeable improvement in the meantime... so I broke down and ordered an XLR headphone cable from c3audio; the UPOCC one for 300$!  Insane!  I read some interesting reviews and since they have a 14 day return policy... If I can't tell a worthwhile difference with this, then I know to just wait until I can afford what will likely be my end game...   (The Yggy, the HD 800 S, and maybe an amp like Ragnarok...)
  
 I'd love to follow the speaker route too, but... I decided the cost difference for the same quality was too much if I'm the one using it.  ...I remember drooling over Martin Logan statement speakers; Theta Digital equipment; room treatment and design... Hah... too much...  That's actually one thing that really hooked me with Schiit.  That one of the founders was originally from Theta Digital.  Affordable quality?!  I was hooked.
  
 Although I'm focusing on headphones... I would love to try for the Magneplanar speakers or some halfway affordable setup someday.
 Oh, I almost went for the Bifrost too... until I started reading about the Jot, and allocated my funds differently.


----------



## theveterans

> I really want to see if using a balanced cable will make any noticeable improvement in the meantime... so I broke down and ordered an XLR headphone cable from c3audio; the UPOCC one for 300$!  Insane!  I read some interesting reviews and since they have a 14 day return policy... If I can't tell a worthwhile difference with this, then I know to just wait until I can afford what will likely be my end game...   (The Yggy, the HD 800 S, and maybe an amp like Ragnarok...)
> 
> I'd love to follow the speaker route too, but... I decided the cost difference for the same quality was too much if I'm the one using it.  ...I remember drooling over Martin Logan statement speakers; Theta Digital equipment; room treatment and design... Hah... too much...  That's actually one thing that really hooked me with Schiit.  That one of the founders was originally from Theta Digital.  Affordable quality?!  I was hooked.
> 
> ...


 
 If you get bored with headphones, you'll probably switch to speakers. Headphone listening IME doesn't sound natural at all.
  
 If you go with the amp upgrade route, Rag should be the top of your list so you can enjoy both headphones and speakers at the same time. Only issue with Rag is the lack of remote control. As for DAC, wait for Yggy upgrades which Schiit might release in the future (hopefully Schiit has plans for it).


----------



## Kenneth Tang

alota said:


> i´m interested about the sound with elear


 
  
 Ok, here is a few comments after several hours of listening to Jot w/DAC and elear. This is a subjected feeling so YMMV.
  
 Setup:
 USB Sources: Win7 Desktop using foobar2000 / Android device LG G5 with build in player app
 File types: Mostly are FLAC with some 320k mp3 and dsf SACD / Highest quality Spotify
 Connection: Cheap but fully capable USB 2.0 Type B cable from desktop/Android (OTG) to Jotunheim internal DAC. SE output to ELEAR
  
 My thought:
 Jot w/DAC does everything right to elear, it is detail and punchy, with a lot of power. The sound signature suits my taste. However, to be honest, it brings no surprise to me. 
 Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that Jot is no good. It is good.... Just because it sounds very similar to my previous amp.
 What I used to drive elear before I get the jot is the so called "B&O Hifi plus" module which is a optional accessory for LG G5. It is a tiny usb powered DAC/amp combo (maybe like Fulla from schiit but smaller) with ES9028 DAC and SABRE9602C as the core, it can be inserted into G5 or works standalone with a PC, and it is just costed me around USD$130 (This accessory, however, is not available in US market).
 Maybe the elear is so easy to drive to perform well, I can not hear a big improvement at all. I am really expecting "wow", "sweet", or something screaming out from my mouth... but sorry, no, I didn't. It just sounds so familiar to me. I did heard a very little bit micro details improved, but not that much, or even maybe due to new toy syndrome.  If Jot + ELEAR =10, then B&O Hifi plus + Elear =8.5.. That's why I say I have no surprise at all. I don't have other other cans in my gear expect elear, so I can not tell whether the harder hedphone to drive, more improvement I can get. I have 2 IEM, one is X20 from Klipsch and the other is Sphear from Focal. I may give them a try to pair with Jot.
  
 I did hear some other dac/amp combo to pair with elear before I get my Jot. One is Fostex HP-A8 (the retail price here is around USD$1K), it sounds too flat, nothing spectacular to me. The $499 Jot definitely worth to buy no matter in terms of price or sound quality.
 The other one is Burson Audio Conductor V2+ (the retail price here is around USD$1.3K). I sounds airy, natural and smooth. It should sounds better than jot, bringing surprise to me, but the price tag... and it is big, very big, I lived in Hong Kong and the most expensive stuff here is ROOM SPACE!
  
 I think I will still keep the Jot although it didn't surprised me much coz I need a desktop amp. Again, I am not saying jot is no good, I like the sound signature of Jot. I am still expecting to hear more details from jot. Maybe sometimes later, when I switched back to B&O, I would tell jot is much better.
  
  
 Attached a photo of my jot and elear, the black plastic on jot is the B&O hifi plus.


----------



## Alchemist007

x-calibar said:


> Anyway, I couldn't discern a difference between the two inputs with what I tested so far.  The one "advantage" I noted with the USB, was its ability to handle odd sampling rates like 176kHz.
> 
> 
> I really want to see if using a balanced cable will make any noticeable improvement in the meantime... so I broke down and ordered an XLR headphone cable from c3audio; the UPOCC one for 300$!  Insane!


 
 If you're willing to wait a little, I'd recommend this guy for cables https://www.etsy.com/shop/impactaudiocables
  
 Your conclusions about USB vs SPDIF are the same as mine, the best thing it does is free up a USB port for other stuff.


----------



## alota

@Kenneth Tang thank you. The important is that the jot souds good in the price range. The similar products(excluding audio-gd)are more expensive. I'm waiting the stock from european reseller


----------



## Kenneth Tang

alota said:


> @Kenneth Tang thank you. The important is that the jot souds good in the price range. The similar products(excluding audio-gd)are more expensive. I'm waiting the stock from european reseller


 
 Yes, in fact the list price of jot is very competitive. 
 I have forgotten to mention I faced some difficulties during driver installation. I have D/L the Schiit_USB_Gen2_1_16.zip and followed the instruction for WIN7 installation. However, it always prompt me to re-plugin the Jot and after 3 trials, the installation terminated. I had to use another file Schiit_USB_1_03.zip and finally got the driver installed. I didn't install the schiit_asio_1_01.zip but it seems that the Schiit_USB_1_03 already bundled the ASIO driver, as I can see a new ASIO for C-Media USB driver in foobar2000.
 However, if I use this ASIO driver in foobar2000 with my jot dac, sometimes I can hear a very short audio skipping, or a very short "pop" sound impluse. Maybe once per track. If I switch back to the DS driver for schiit gen2 (I guess it stands for direct sound for win7). No audio skipping at all. Anyone encountered this problem?


----------



## windcar

For those who bought with the DAC addon, do you find that the 32-bit at 88.2kHz sounds much better than at 16-bit 176.4kHz?
 At first I was trying out 16-bit 176.4kHz and it sounds like poo to my ears, it just sounds kinda coarse. I was surprised that changing to 32-bit at 88.2kHz the sound becomes much more refined.
  
 Also I do not know why the 32-bit sounds a lot softer. I think this option may have problem with cans needing alot of juice.


----------



## Kenneth Tang

windcar said:


> For those who bought with the DAC addon, do you find that the 32-bit at 88.2kHz sounds much better than at 16-bit 176.4kHz?
> At first I was trying out 16-bit 176.4kHz and it sounds like poo to my ears, it just sounds kinda coarse. I was surprised that changing to 32-bit at 88.2kHz the sound becomes much more refined.
> 
> Also I do not know why the 32-bit sounds a lot softer. I think this option may have problem with cans needing alot of juice.


 
 Would you mind telling me where to have this config changed?


----------



## windcar

right click on the sound icon at the bottom right screen -> select playback device -> on the playback tab select Schiit USB Audio -> click on properties button -> go to Advanced Tab


----------



## Kenneth Tang

markf786 said:


> Spending more time with my new Jotunheim, I'll must say the optional DAC is no slouch.
> 
> I connected my Chord Mojo to the Jot's inputs, adjusted the level to match the internal DAC, and drove them both simultaneously from two separate computers running Audirvana.  I was able to play the same tracks, and switch back and forth between the two DACs.  Though at times I thought maybe the Mojo revealed a little more detail, it was very hard to say with certainty after switching back to the Jot.  As I quickly switched between the two, it was easy to forget which DAC I was listening to.  BTW, I was using the HD650 for the comparison, since I know its sound very well.
> 
> I'd still like to get a Bimby some day, but space is limited (due to my Jot being on a shelf with limited height), so the internal DAC should hold me over for a while until curiosity gets the best of me.


 
 I did a similar test but changing the subject of chord mojo to B&O hifi plus, which is running the ES9028. By flipping the input switch all the way up and down I can switch back and forth between the Jot internal DAC (AKM4990) and the ES9028. I really can not tell any difference...
 Maybe both are top-end D/S DAC, and I do not have a pair of golden ear.... Really curious on whether can I hear the difference if switching to a MB DAC.... ha... Maybe this is a good news to me coz I can save a lot of money...


----------



## windcar

I think something is not right. Now I switch back to 16bit and the volume stays the same. Now my unit is permanently needing higher dial now. I am contacting Schiit.


----------



## CarlosUnchained

franzdom said:


>


 
  I see you have the LCD-XC. How it pairs with the Jot?


----------



## franzdom

carlosunchained said:


> I see you have the LCD-XC. How it pairs with the Jot?


 
  
 Really really well, never bright, very excellent bass and way more power and damping than the XC needs.
 I love running balanced cables to take full advantage and to me it sounds a lot better than SE. It is SS endgame in my humble opinion, to go with a closed can possible end game.


----------



## CarlosUnchained

franzdom said:


> Really really well, never bright, very excellent bass and way more power and damping than the XC needs.
> I love running balanced cables to take full advantage and to me it sounds a lot better than SE. It is SS endgame in my humble opinion, to go with a closed can possible end game.


 

 I'm waiting for my X to come, being that efficient the Jot might be overkill. I don't want to make the X brighter in any case.
  
 Do you prefer MJ2 tubes or SS with XC?


----------



## franzdom

carlosunchained said:


> I'm waiting for my X to come, being that efficient the Jot might be overkill. I don't want to make the X brighter in any case.
> 
> Do you prefer MJ2 tubes or SS with XC?


 
  
 I think I may prefer the Jot. I have a lot of very nice tubes too but the Jot has a darker floor and I love that. Honestly it's so good it's hard to tell the difference. And I have to say I vastly prefer the Jot over LISST tubes.


----------



## X-Calibar

kenneth tang said:


> Yes, in fact the list price of jot is very competitive.
> I have forgotten to mention I faced some difficulties during driver installation. I have D/L the Schiit_USB_Gen2_1_16.zip and followed the instruction for WIN7 installation. However, it always prompt me to re-plugin the Jot and after 3 trials, the installation terminated. I had to use another file Schiit_USB_1_03.zip and finally got the driver installed. I didn't install the schiit_asio_1_01.zip but it seems that the Schiit_USB_1_03 already bundled the ASIO driver, as I can see a new ASIO for C-Media USB driver in foobar2000.
> However, if I use this ASIO driver in foobar2000 with my jot dac, sometimes I can hear a very short audio skipping, or a very short "pop" sound impluse. Maybe once per track. If I switch back to the DS driver for schiit gen2 (I guess it stands for direct sound for win7). No audio skipping at all. Anyone encountered this problem?


 
 I ran into that problem installing drivers until I read this:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/818323/schiit-jotunheim-review-preview-head-fi-tv/3120#post_13103026
  
 Maybe that will help the popping?


----------



## Andrew Rieger

Anyone using the Schiit Saga with the Jot?


----------



## Kenneth Tang

x-calibar said:


> I ran into that problem installing drivers until I read this:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/818323/schiit-jotunheim-review-preview-head-fi-tv/3120#post_13103026
> 
> Maybe that will help the popping?


 
 My current PC is running Win7 and if I am not using the ASIO as output, no popping heard. It only happen when I switched to ASIO output.
 By the way, I have a ASUS notebook running Win10 and just encountered the same problem as your link mentioned. I try to follow the instructions and the driver can be installed. However I can not find the ASIO driver for Win10 so I can not test the popping issue in Win10. Anyway, since Jot's internal DAC does not support native DSD, I think ASIO output mode isn't that useful actually.


----------



## Share2Care

Aloha Peeps! 

Another couple of weeks and I will have the funds to order my first piece of decent audio equipment dor headphones, ever! 

A couple questions if you would all be so kind... 

I am struggling with either going for the Jot and the internal DAC or go for a Modi DAC option instead. This will be a long investment as am at my desk constantly with music playing so I would prefer to get it right. So go with the Modi combination or the all in one Jot? If with the Modi, which version? Will I hear through my various headphones a difference with the different Modi options? Better connectivity? 

Lastly, I have been looking at Bluetooth units (AptX minimum requirement) that receive, transmit or both amd wondered if this unit could be connected to the Jot or if required the Jot Modi combination? Just a thought! 

Appreciate any and all advice!


----------



## Airidas

I want to connect a turntable to Jotunheim. I use Rega ELYS 2 and ORTOFON 2M Red cartridges. I choose between Schiit Mani and internal Jotunheim Phono module.
  
 I need advise which one is better.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Defiant00

kenneth tang said:


> My current PC is running Win7 and if I am not using the ASIO as output, no popping heard. It only happen when I switched to ASIO output.
> By the way, I have a ASUS notebook running Win10 and just encountered the same problem as your link mentioned. I try to follow the instructions and the driver can be installed. However I can not find the ASIO driver for Win10 so I can not test the popping issue in Win10. Anyway, since Jot's internal DAC does not support native DSD, I think ASIO output mode isn't that useful actually.


 
  
 ASIO popping is typically a sign of your buffer being set too low; you may want to check that setting (it's either in your player or the ASIO driver itself, having not used the Schiit driver I couldn't say for sure where it is).
  
 This is a frequent issue with virtual instruments, where buffer sizes can make big differences in playability. For music playback a few extra milliseconds of buffering make no difference.


----------



## MarkF786

share2care said:


> I am struggling with either going for the Jot and the internal DAC or go for a Modi DAC option instead. This will be a long investment as am at my desk constantly with music playing so I would prefer to get it right. So go with the Modi combination or the all in one Jot? If with the Modi, which version? Will I hear through my various headphones a difference with the different Modi options? Better connectivity?


 
  
 Only the Modi Multibit would be a worthy upgrade - but it's $150 more than the Jot's internal DAC.  Here's how I would decide:
  
 - If you don't mind having the extra clutter of a second device, and it's worth spending the extra $150 for a small increase in sound quality, get the Modi Multibit.
  
 - If you'd rather have a single device, save $150, and have a darn good sounding DAC, get the internal DAC.  You can always buy the Multibit later if you change you mind.  Personally, I found the built-in DAC as good as the Chord Mojo, which is a highly regarded DAC.


----------



## alota

Finally Jot is available in Europe after long time. Bought one with dac. i´m really curious about this little amp after my past with 30kg headphone amplifiers


----------



## econaut

Got mine from the US today. Bad luck, I guess. Probably 200 Euros wasted for customs, VAT and FedEx fee.
  
 But I don't care, it just sounds amazing


----------



## Kenneth Tang

defiant00 said:


> ASIO popping is typically a sign of your buffer being set too low; you may want to check that setting (it's either in your player or the ASIO driver itself, having not used the Schiit driver I couldn't say for sure where it is).
> 
> This is a frequent issue with virtual instruments, where buffer sizes can make big differences in playability. For music playback a few extra milliseconds of buffering make no difference.


 
  
 Thank you for your advise. I am using foobar2000 on Win7 and I have  try a a few setting on the buffer size, either the default 1sec(I am not sure what is the default value, but should be more or less 1sec), 5 sec, or even up to the longest 30sec. It seems to be not related. Popping still happens.


----------



## Kenneth Tang

markf786 said:


> Only the Modi Multibit would be a worthy upgrade - but it's $150 more than the Jot's internal DAC.  Here's how I would decide:
> 
> - If you don't mind having the extra clutter of a second device, and it's worth spending the extra $150 for a small increase in sound quality, get the Modi Multibit.
> 
> - If you'd rather have a single device, save $150, and have a darn good sounding DAC, get the internal DAC.  You can always buy the Multibit later if you change you mind.  Personally, I found the built-in DAC as good as the Chord Mojo, which is a highly regarded DAC.


 
  
 Agreed. That's why I got my jot with DAC first. Now I am very curious about how much improvement can I get for changing to Modi MB.


----------



## leafy7382

kenneth tang said:


> Agreed. That's why I got my jot with DAC first. Now I am very curious about how much improvement can I get for changing to Modi MB.


 
 It's going to be hard to quantify the change. I would probably put it into qualitative change.
  
 I compared the internal DAC to Modi Multibit and Bifrost Multibit.

The internal DAC is very nice, paired with Jot, it drives my HD650 very well, nice bass, sounds a bit forward but with details.
The Mimby, when compared to the internal DAC, is more detailed and is less bright, I can listen to it a lot longer without feeling tired.
Bimby is a step up again, changing the most in the "shape" of the sounds, especially female vocal and cello. I was using OST from Lala Land as a reference. If I listen to Emma Stone sing with the internal DAC, she sounds flatter and weaker, Bimby gives her the solid lower half and turned her voice into a rounder "ball"-like sound source. It's probably the closest I could describe the changes. Piano is also expanded, now you can hear the whole piano instead of just the notes, the resonance of the wood when the keys are struck is more obvious and sometimes the pedals can be heard too.


----------



## MarkF786

leafy7382 said:


> It's going to be hard to quantify the change. I would probably put it into qualitative change.
> 
> I compared the internal DAC to Modi Multibit and Bifrost Multibit.
> 
> ...


 

 Do you feel the difference in sound is noticeable enough that it you quickly switch between them that you can instantly hear a difference and know which one is which, or is a more subtle difference that only over time can you begin to hear the differences?
  
 I find with some gear, it definitely take time to perceive the subtle differences.


----------



## leafy7382

markf786 said:


> Do you feel the difference in sound is noticeable enough that it you quickly switch between them that you can instantly hear a difference and know which one is which, or is a more subtle difference that only over time can you begin to hear the differences?
> 
> I find with some gear, it definitely take time to perceive the subtle differences.


 
 Internal vs Mimby takes some concentration to distinguish them, but Internal vs Bimby is very obvious.


----------



## lenroot77

markf786 said:


> Do you feel the difference in sound is noticeable enough that it you quickly switch between them that you can instantly hear a difference and know which one is which, or is a more subtle difference that only over time can you begin to hear the differences?
> 
> I find with some gear, it definitely take time to perceive the subtle differences.




For me it's very easy to hear the difference when specifically listening to drums/cymbals. They just sound much more natural and lifelike.


----------



## Defiant00

kenneth tang said:


> Thank you for your advise. I am using foobar2000 on Win7 and I have  try a a few setting on the buffer size, either the default 1sec(I am not sure what is the default value, but should be more or less 1sec), 5 sec, or even up to the longest 30sec. It seems to be not related. Popping still happens.




I believe ASIO buffer settings are a separate thing to foobar's. I know with asio4all, when in use it shows up on the system tray and you can then adjust the buffer size from there. Based off of the numbers you mentioned, it sounds like that was foobar's buffer setting, as ASIO buffers are typically set by number of samples, with something like 512 (which is just a few milliseconds) being a relatively high value.

Sorry I don't have more specific information, but it might be worth it to take a second look.


----------



## Mikko Peltonen

Jotunheim ordered with the DAC! So excited. Hopefully the European reseller in the Netherlands will have them in stock soon.


----------



## alota

mikko peltonen said:


> Jotunheim ordered with the DAC! So excited. Hopefully the European reseller in the Netherlands will have them in stock soon.


 
 i bought yesterday form dutch reseller so is in stock


----------



## windcar

After doing some comparison with my DarkVoice, a low-end tube amp, I find that Darkvoice is alot more resolving than Jotunheim. I am only using RCA 6SN7 with 6N13S SVETLANA. Some of the details either get lost or sounds obscure with Jotunheim. I wonder if this is a common case between tube and SS amp. Jotunheim is faster and offer more clarity though.
  
 I am not sure if I like what Jotunheim has done to my HD650, it makes my HD650 sounds neutral and slightly analytical. To put things into perspective, Darkvoice with HD800S sounds more euphonic whereas  HD650 with Jotunheim sounds more analytical.


----------



## Vigrith

windcar said:


> I am not sure if I like what Jotunheim has done to my HD650, it makes my HD650 sounds neutral and slightly analytical. To put things into perspective, Darkvoice with HD800S sounds more euphonic whereas  HD650 with Jotunheim sounds more analytical.


 
  
 I think you're alone there, probably. Personally I don't find the Jotunheim makes the HD650 sound analytical at all, in fact it does not influence the character of the 650s in the slightest which is what people love about it - plenty of other people I personally know as well as judging by the reviews and opinions available the common consensus is that the Jotunheim is definitely not bright nor analytical unless the headphones you plug in are.
  
 That's what's so interesting with audio though, everyone hears things differently.


----------



## iamxLn

I think it makes it sound more analytical.


----------



## Share2Care

markf786 said:


> Only the Modi Multibit would be a worthy upgrade - but it's $150 more than the Jot's internal DAC.  Here's how I would decide:
> 
> - If you don't mind having the extra clutter of a second device, and it's worth spending the extra $150 for a small increase in sound quality, get the Modi Multibit.
> 
> - If you'd rather have a single device, save $150, and have a darn good sounding DAC, get the internal DAC.  You can always buy the Multibit later if you change you mind.  Personally, I found the built-in DAC as good as the Chord Mojo, which is a highly regarded DAC.




Thank you for taking the time to answer and I can also read further on that there is a real difference between the two options of balanced internal DAC andna Multibit. 

I think at this point I will get an all in one Jot and then some point after I have bought my HD650 and HE400i I will then invest in hardware again. 

One other question is about cables. Suchbas USB A to B for the DAC or an RCA to 3.5mm connection can cost £20 all the way to the thousands. 

Cheers!


----------



## Soundofmusic

baldr said:


> All very good things come to those who wait.



Has anything concrete materialized from this hint from Schiit yet (it was an answer to a post describing the slightly awkward market position of the Bitfrost MB after the release of the Modi 2 MB)? I wanna buy the Jotunheim now, but I am torn on what dac solution I should choose. An imminent upgrade of the Bitfrost or the Jotunheim internal DAC would affect my decision.

Edit; I see there is talk about a "project manhattan" in another thread, supposedly some DSP that they hope to introduce at several price points, could maybe trickle its way to the Bitfrost?


----------



## econaut

According to one of the Schiit guys, there won't be a multibit DAC module for Jotunheim, as there is not enough space for it in the case.


----------



## Guidostrunk

If anyone is following this thread , and is considering buying a Jotunheim. Or possibly a second one. Here's one I just happened to see that can probably be had for less than $350.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/142273758288

Cheers


----------



## MarkF786

share2care said:


> Thank you for taking the time to answer and I can also read further on that there is a real difference between the two options of balanced internal DAC andna Multibit.
> 
> I think at this point I will get an all in one Jot and then some point after I have bought my HD650 and HE400i I will then invest in hardware again.
> 
> ...


 

 The Schiit PYST USB cable is a good cable and only costs $20.  For RCA to 3.5, I think the AudioQuest Tower series is a good value for around $20+ (depending in the cable length).


----------



## iamxLn

I'm pretty impressed with blue jean cables. No nonsense and they feel great. They killed the hum on my turntable.


----------



## Share2Care

markf786 said:


> The Schiit PYST USB cable is a good cable and only costs $20.  For RCA to 3.5, I think the AudioQuest Tower series is a good value for around $20+ (depending in the cable length).




That is great Mark, thanks. 

With rumours going around and am pretty sure there is not much room for MB balanced DAC in the Jot, with your thoughts on it which are really appreciated, shall I just stick to Jot amd DAC and see where Schiit lies (Pun Intended.. Ha!) in a few months? Also hopefully I do not purchase a Jot and then either a Jot 2.0 or a new blend appears. Can always wait for the new releases, especially after the good things happen?! 

Cheers


----------



## Mikko Peltonen

alota said:


> i bought yesterday form dutch reseller so is in stock


 

They now say "10 febr. sold out - new stock coming soon" on their site which I interpret as them having had that in stock yesterday, but being Dutch and spelling weird English I'm not sure. Well, hopefully they'll ship them to the customers soon.


----------



## alota

mikko peltonen said:


> They now say "10 febr. sold out - new stock coming soon" on their site which I interpret as them having had that in stock yesterday, but being Dutch and spelling weird English I'm not sure. Well, hopefully they'll ship them to the customers soon.


 
 see this page: http://www.schiit-europe.com/index.php/producten/amps.html
 now only the version with dac is out of stock. normal version and phono version are in stock.
 Otherwise, the stock of dac version, from wednesday, has been sold in two days


----------



## Mikko Peltonen

alota said:


> see this page: http://www.schiit-europe.com/index.php/producten/amps.html
> now only the version with dac is out of stock. normal version and phono version are in stock.
> Otherwise, the stock of dac version, from wednesday, has been sold in two days


 
  
 I asked them and they checked that my order should be send next Friday or the following Monday.


----------



## alota

mikko peltonen said:


> I asked them and they checked that my order should be send next Friday or the following Monday.


 
 Sorry, i had not realized that you had already ordered.
 well. we waiting both for the Jot


----------



## X-Calibar

alchemist007 said:


> If you're willing to wait a little, I'd recommend this guy for cables https://www.etsy.com/shop/impactaudiocables
> 
> Your conclusions about USB vs SPDIF are the same as mine, the best thing it does is free up a USB port for other stuff.


 
 Those custom cables do look nice... I kinda wish I had tried one of those.
  
 BUT.  Well, I already got the ... $300.00 6ft audiophile cable from c3audio.com for the HD 650 for XLR on the Jot in the mail today.
  
 ... Hm.  Honestly I didn't know what to expect lol.  And I'm uncertain what changes the cable made and what changes balanced (unbalanced input from Modi Multi) made.
 Makes me really wish I could demo a bunch of cables and headphones, and A/B them with the Jot.  
  
 What's the verdict though?  Moving from stock Sennheiser SE to c3audio XLR?
 Well unfortunately, I'm more of a casual audiophile, or at least I don't have the same experience that most people here do.
 What I CAN say, which you can take with a grain of salt:
  
 It's kind of like I was wearing slightly tinted sunglasses with the Foobar2k ASIO lossless FLAC -> Optical -> Modi Multi -> PYST -> Jotunheim SE.
 Some things sounded absolutely magnificent, but others... well it felt like it was missing something.
  
 Whether it's Jot's XLR (unbalanced input though), or the magic of the $300 cable or the combination; I've taken off my tinted glasses with the new cable and it's what I wanted.
 There seems to be greater clarity, and a seemingly more realistic, more believable sound.  Not sure if it made it any brighter, or the bass any less... but it just sounds full and great.
 I'm quick to doubt myself, and I have poor audio memory, but before I would always have this sense that some content left something to be desired.  This just sounds better.
 A bump in the direction I was hoping for!  An expensive bump... but in any case it sounds beautiful.  
  
 I would love to hear someone else's opinion on the cable, someone who has experience and has stuff to compare it to.  The 14 day full money back return policy (under 600$) is what sold me.
 ...I hate that I spent so much, but it *is* wonderful.
  
 And mostly from others: how much difference the SE vs the XLR input on the Jotunheim makes when using an unbalanced source like the Modi Multibit?


----------



## Alchemist007

Mimby sounds better to me than the built in balanced DAC, using the balanced XLR output.


----------



## DavidA

x-calibar said:


> Those custom cables do look nice... I kinda wish I had tried one of those.
> 
> BUT.  Well, I already got the ... $300.00 6ft audiophile cable from c3audio.com for the HD 650 for XLR on the Jot in the mail today.
> 
> ...


 
 $300 for a cable could have been used on a better amp, better quality audio, or a better/another headphone


----------



## Mikko Peltonen

So excited about the Jotunheim that I already ordered all the parts for a balanced cable for my HE-400i headphones. Parts should be here next week so I have time to prepare the cable before the Jotunheim arrives.
  

  
 2,5 mm plugs for scale. From left to right: 2,4 mm, 2,2 mm, 1,8 mm.


----------



## Kenneth Tang

alchemist007 said:


> Mimby sounds better to me than the built in balanced DAC, using the balanced XLR output.




Did you try to do a AB test on the Mimby and internal dac ? I did try several dac which I think I can hear the difference when play one by one. However, when I try a blind test. The result was not as obvious as I thought.


----------



## lenroot77

kenneth tang said:


> Did you try to do a AB test on the Mimby and internal dac ? I did try several dac which I think I can hear the difference when play one by one. However, when I try a blind test. The result was not as obvious as I thought.




Discussed this recently on the mimby thread. It's strong points are found within the natural timbre and clarity of instruments, me personally it's especially apparent with drums and cymbals. I don't find the difference to be as significant vs the X7 internal Dac with games and music genres such as EDM.


----------



## watchnerd

mikko peltonen said:


> So excited about the Jotunheim that I already ordered all the parts for a balanced cable for my HE-400i headphones. Parts should be here next week so I have time to prepare the cable before the Jotunheim arrives.
> 
> 
> 
> 2,5 mm plugs for scale. From left to right: 2,4 mm, 2,2 mm, 1,8 mm.


 
  
 Where did you get the parts?


----------



## Vigrith

davida said:


> $300 for a cable could have been used on a better amp, better quality audio, or a better/another headphone


 
  
 Agreed there haha, I mean, I'm all for eye candy cables (Norne's Draug, Vanquish, etc. for example are worth every penny just for their looks and wonderful craftsmanship) but ideally you'd do that *after* you're confident you can't/don't want to improve upon your transducers/DAC, etc. Who am I to judge though, some people believe in cable magic and I definitely do agree balanced makes a difference but there are plenty of good cables out there that cost less than $300, even most of Norne's are less than that. Impact, FAW and other less known DYI-ish people are very good at what they do for reasonable prices.


----------



## Letmebefrank

Impact audio cables is great, I ordered a cable for HD650s before I had the Jotunheim so it was single ended. Once I got the Jot and converted the stock hd650 cable to 4 pin and liked it, I converted the Impact cable to 4 pin as well. Fantastic cables. Also customer service is top notch.


----------



## sovereign

watchnerd said:


> Where did you get the parts?


 
  
  


mikko peltonen said:


> So excited about the Jotunheim that I already ordered all the parts for a balanced cable for my HE-400i headphones. Parts should be here next week so I have time to prepare the cable before the Jotunheim arrives.
> 
> 
> 
> 2,5 mm plugs for scale. From left to right: 2,4 mm, 2,2 mm, 1,8 mm.


 

 Where did you get the 2.5mm plugs?


----------



## Mikko Peltonen

watchnerd said:


> Where did you get the parts?


 
  
  


sovereign said:


> Where did you get the 2.5mm plugs?


 
  
 All from Ebay. The plugs I have in the picture didn't quite fit, had to order smaller ones. The outer diameter is smaller than the indentation in the headphones but for some odd reason the jacks aren't parallel to the bottom of the hole...
  
 I ordered Neutrik XLR plugs and a 6,3 mm plug so that I can make the cable and an adapter to use in single ended mode. For the cable itself I picked 22 AWG (24 was out of stock...) silicone cable that has 60 inner strands for the extra flexibility. The new plugs I ordered are mono. It's a funny thing about Ebay that you find different results when you search on different devices. If I had seen these ones earlier I would've picked them earlier. I'm also going to sleeve the cables with 3 mm paracord.
  
 Here's a list
  

22 AWG silicone cable
2,5 mm mono plugs
Male XLR
Female XLR
6,3 mm TRS plug
3 mm paracord
  
 I already had all the connectors in the shopping cart at Thomann but was able to get the same parts shipped to Finland for roughly 10 euros cheaper so... Also the wire was about half the price than similar wire in a local store.
  
Here's a link to the plugs I originally ordered. By the way, the wires in the picture are just some random pieces I found laying around. I just used them to visualize how the cable would turn out.


----------



## Alchemist007

kenneth tang said:


> Did you try to do a AB test on the Mimby and internal dac ? I did try several dac which I think I can hear the difference when play one by one. However, when I try a blind test. The result was not as obvious as I thought.


 
 Yep, there's some sort of veil the internal DAC has that the mimby doesn't, mimby is just clearer with more detail.


----------



## econsumer666

Can anyone suggest, if this schiit jotunheim thing pairs well with Ether C Flow balanced as headamp/dac all in one? Is this gonna be an upgrade from Audio GD Fun?


----------



## olor1n

x-calibar said:


> alchemist007 said:
> 
> 
> > If you're willing to wait a little, I'd recommend this guy for cables https://www.etsy.com/shop/impactaudiocables
> ...


 
  
 There's no magic in that $300 cable. You're simply hearing the inherent difference between the Jotunheim's SE and balanced output, exaggerated because you can't quickly switch between the outputs with the same transducers connected and volume matched. Re-terminating the stock HD650 to balanced yields the same result - at 1/10th the cost of your "audiophile" cable.
  
 This is the cable I use. It's made of braided, Norne Audio 22awg ultra pure OCC copper. Love the look and feel of it. I paid $100. It sounds wonderful too - just like the re-terminated stock HD650 cable I used previously.


----------



## olor1n

davida said:


> $300 for a cable could have been used on a better amp, better quality audio, or a better/another headphone


 
  
 Agree with the sentiment, but you'd be hard pressed to find a better amp than the Jotunheim for a mere $300 more.


----------



## DavidA

olor1n said:


> Agree with the sentiment, but you'd be hard pressed to find a better amp than the Jotunheim for a mere $300 more.


 
 This would depend on the headphones that one has, a HD-800 would not be a good pairing with the Jot while a BH Crack would be quite a bit better for about $650 (added cost of decent tubes) or a Elise at $700.
  
 Surprised that there is so much difference between the SE and Balanced output of the Jot, most of the amps that I heard with both SE and Balanced displayed very little to no difference, granted they were much higher up in price so it may well be that the design on either SE or Balanced has very little differences.


----------



## olor1n

davida said:


> olor1n said:
> 
> 
> > Agree with the sentiment, but you'd be hard pressed to find a better amp than the Jotunheim for a mere $300 more.
> ...


 

 The Jot's SE output is excellent, but the balanced output is better, IMO. When volume matched (with a dB level meter), there is more body and control in the lower registers and percussion instruments have more impact. And against expectation, balanced also sounds _smoother_ to me. It's not night and day, though it may appear so when switching between the two without careful volume matching.
  
 I'm not asserting that the Jot has this wide gulf between SE and balanced. Your implication that the Jot is gimped by price suggests you've not spent any time with this component to appreciate what it brings to the table.


----------



## DavidA

olor1n said:


> The Jot's SE output is excellent, but the balanced output is better, IMO. When volume matched (with a dB level meter), there is more body and control in the lower registers and percussion instruments have more impact. And against expectation, balanced also sounds _smoother_ to me. It's not night and day, though it may appear so when switching between the two without careful volume matching.
> 
> I'm not asserting that the Jot has this wide gulf between SE and balanced. Your implication that the Jot is gimped by price suggests you've not spent any time with this component to appreciate what it brings to the table.


 
 I've only listened to a Jot once and didn't do A/B comparisons between SE/balanced, my statement was based on the comments by almost all that have gotten a Jot seem to say that there is a big/noticeable/night & day difference between the SE and balance so I take it as stated by others.  Also didn't want to spend anymore time with the Jot it since it wasn't a sound that I liked with my HD-700/800/T1/RS2e, much too bright and harsh sounding with these headphones, with the HD-650 its not bad but I prefer it paired with a BH Crack or MicroZOTL2.
  
 I don't think its gimped by price, there are very few amps that have both SE and balanced output under $1500 that I can think of so I consider the Jot a very good deal.  The only amps that I have spent time with that have both SE and balanced were all pricy, Liquid Gold, Liquid Glass, Master 11, GSX-mk2, DarkStar, WA22 and EC Balancing Act, so that is what I've based my comment about price.


----------



## earnmyturns

econsumer666 said:


> Can anyone suggest, if this schiit jotunheim thing pairs well with Ether C Flow balanced as headamp/dac all in one? Is this gonna be an upgrade from Audio GD Fun?


 
 My favored headphone setup is Bifrost Multibit>RCA>Jotunheim>XLR>Ether C Flow. Sometimes I replace the Jotunheim by a Liquid Carbon 2.0. The LC has a lusher tone that works really well with voice and some classical, but I prefer the leaner, sharper transient impact of the Jotunheim for the modern jazz that is my main music fare. I don't have the internal DAC, I don't know how that sounds. But then I'm really partial to Schiit's multibit DACs (I have a Yggy on my 2-channel system). *Update*: Listening to a jazz-Indian blend, "Tirtha" (Vijay Iyer, Prasanna, Nitin Mitta, ACT Music 2011). The tabla beats are so crisp, harmonics and bent notes so real, so present, they demonstrate what this setup is best at.


----------



## floppiness

alchemist007 said:


> Yep, there's some sort of veil the internal DAC has that the mimby doesn't, mimby is just clearer with more detail.


 
 Completely agree, I've had the mimby for a few days or so. I'm disappointed that I bought the internal dac, for my hearing the mimby is clearly worth the upgrade. If I would have known I would have skipped the internal DAC. The mimby just opens everything up.


----------



## xenithon

Hi all. From everything I have been reading, this does not have the best synergy with the HD800. However, I'm not sure if that comes predominantly from the DAC section or from the amp section. Has anyone tried the Jot purely as an amp for the HD800, paired up with a warm-sounding DAC?


----------



## iamxLn

It comes from the amp.


----------



## Vigrith

Actually, technically it comes from neither - it's the headphones. You cannot expect a dead neutral super powerful amplifier to do the HD800 any favours at all.


----------



## alota

vigrith said:


> Actually, technically it comes from neither - it's the headphones. You cannot expect a dead neutral super powerful amplifier to do the HD800 any favours at all.


 
 agree
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 the hd-800 is hugly beast


----------



## MarkF786

How about with the HD800S? They seem to be more balanced (though that's just hearsay since I don't own a pair yet).


----------



## Byronb

markf786 said:


> How about with the HD800S? They seem to be more balanced (though that's just hearsay since I don't own a pair yet).



 

The S is much easier to amp for sure.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

It's definitely easier to amp. No question. That said, if you have a multibit DAC *and Sonarworks*, HD800 should be tolerable. No question for classical music. MJ2 and LISST are fine on the HD800 with Bimby even without SW—for classical—but if you have SW I can't see your having a problem. Still, I would go for Vali, Valhalla, or Mjolnir 2.


byronb said:


> markf786 said:
> 
> 
> > How about with the HD800S? They seem to be more balanced (though that's just hearsay since I don't own a pair yet).
> ...


----------



## windcar

markf786 said:


> How about with the HD800S? They seem to be more balanced (though that's just hearsay since I don't own a pair yet).


 
 I have the S. It's listenable on the jot but not having good synergy. However, with it, you will be able to see how fast the 800 can be(really fast). I wouldn't recommend the pairing though. I'm waiting for torpedo4 to start selling.


----------



## Atavax

So often times i'll be listening to something and i'll think that the seperation between the left and right sounds very artificial. And i'm wondering if that is because the dac on the Jot isn't very good or because the source isn't very good.


----------



## Baldr

atavax said:


> So often times i'll be listening to something and i'll think that the seperation between the left and right sounds very artificial. And i'm wondering if that is because the dac on the Jot isn't very good or because the source isn't very good.


 

 Probably due to the mastering of the content.


----------



## slex

Anyone using true fully balance r2r or multibit dac into jotuheim's balance inputs at the moment? Any difference from SE?


----------



## i20bot

windcar said:


> I have the S. It's listenable on the jot but not having good synergy. However, with it, you will be able to see how fast the 800 can be(really fast). I wouldn't recommend the pairing though. I'm waiting for torpedo4 to start selling.


 

 I hear people like the HD800 with active Saga and Jot.  Anyone tried the HD700 on the Jot?  Haven't seen any impressions but it's not like I've read through the whole thread either.  And then again, I traded the HD700 away anyways, lol.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

i20bot said:


> I hear people like the HD800 with active Saga and Jot.  Anyone tried the HD700 on the Jot?  Haven't seen any impressions but it's not like I've read through the whole thread either.  And then again, I traded the HD700 away anyways, lol.




I hear Putin uses HD700 through the Jot when he needs to break an unwilling captive to get intel and he doesn't have time to waste. They say it's more humane than waterboarding but I have my doubts.


----------



## MWSVette

i20bot said:


> I hear people like the HD800 with active Saga and Jot.  Anyone tried the HD700 on the Jot?  Haven't seen any impressions but it's not like I've read through the whole thread either.  And then again, I traded the HD700 away anyways, lol.


 

 I have both but prefer the HD700 with my Lyr and a good set of tubes...


----------



## DavidA

i20bot said:


> I hear people like the HD800 with active Saga and Jot.  Anyone tried the HD700 on the Jot?  Haven't seen any impressions but it's not like I've read through the whole thread either.  And then again, I traded the HD700 away anyways, lol.


 
 Jot is a bit too bright for HD-700 or HD-800, like @MWSVette I'd go with HD-700 paired with Lyr2


----------



## thyname

Is the general consensus here that Sennheiser HD 800 sound better with Valhalla 2 from the Schiit amp lineup? Or any tubes for that matter?
  
 In terms of power, _*at 300 Ohms*_ per channel (that's the rated impedance of the HD 800), here is how each of them rank up:
  
 Magni 2: 260 mW
 Magni 2 Uber: 320 mW
 Vali 2: 270 mW
 Asgard 2: 380 mW
 Valhalla 2: 800 mW
 Lyr 2: 660 mW
 Mjolnir 2: 850 mW
 Ragnarok: 1,700 mW
  
 Jotunheim (Balanced): 900 mW
 Jotunheim (SE): 350 mW


----------



## MWSVette

thyname said:


> Is the general consensus here that Sennheiser HD 800 sound better with Valhalla 2 from the Schiit amp lineup? Or any tubes for that matter?
> 
> In terms of power, _*at 300 Ohms*_ per channel (that's the rated impedance of the HD 800), here is how each of them rank up:
> 
> ...


 

 I would lean toward the Valhalla 2, which is an OTL, if the only headphones you will use are the HD800's.   If you will be using other headphones, the Lyr 2 is more flexible when used with planers or other hard to drive cans..


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

It's really a question of taste. HD800 certainly carries a buttery warmth out of MJ2 with the right tubes that Rag will never possess, but Rag ultimately drives them with greater authority. Within the Jotunheim-sized chassis, I think Valhalla 2 (again, with the right tubes) will give you the best mix of accuracy and warmth. Lyr 2 gives you more power, though if you need power, I would recommend just going straight for MJ2.


----------



## i20bot

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I hear Putin uses HD700 through the Jot when he needs to break an unwilling captive to get intel and he doesn't have time to waste. They say it's more humane than waterboarding but I have my doubts.


 
  
  


mwsvette said:


> I have both but prefer the HD700 with my Lyr and a good set of tubes...


 
  
  


davida said:


> Jot is a bit too bright for HD-700 or HD-800, like @MWSVette I'd go with HD-700 paired with Lyr2


 
  
 Ah thanks.  When I had the HD700, I had it plugged into the Oppo HA-1 and it didn't bother me, knowing how bright the HA-1 is.  I was actually running that for a while until I sold the HA-1 and got the tubes.  But the HD700 didn't sound good to me on the tube amp that I got.  But it made my HD650 sing so that's what I'm running mainly now.  Then traded the HD700 for a try at other headphones.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Besides losing speaker taps/amping, what will i miss downgrading to a Jot from a Rag?

It seems the Jot has enough authority for the hd800 and he560, what about say k1000 or he6?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

soundsgoodtome said:


> Besides losing speaker taps/amping, what will i miss downgrading to a Jot from a Rag?
> 
> It seems the Jot has enough authority for the hd800 and he560, what about say k1000 or he6?


 

 Nope.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Interesting single word answer.

More input from others would be appreciated.


----------



## alota

soundsgoodtome said:


> Interesting single word answer.
> 
> More input from others would be appreciated.



I don't have jot yet but he-6 and k-1000 are really hard to drive. I used this headphones with my balanced beta-22(50 watt 8 ohm) and i wanted much power


----------



## cskippy

I use Gumby balanced to Jot or single ended to Vali 2 with HE-6.  They both perform fine but I'm sure there are better amps out there for HE-6.  My Pioneer Spec 2 power amp didn't blow me away in comparison to the other two.  I am insane though and am probably going to buy a First Watt J2 cause YOLO.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

cskippy said:


> I use Gumby balanced to Jot or single ended to Vali 2 with HE-6.  They both perform fine but I'm sure there are better amps out there for HE-6.  My Pioneer Spec 2 power amp didn't blow me away in comparison to the other two.  I am insane though and am probably going to buy a First Watt J2 cause YOLO.




Vali is going to comically under power he6. Even mj2 is only acceptable. The more crucial question though is synergy and Jot is simply too bright for either can. The experience is shrill and unmusical in the first degree, even if the volume question can be fixed. 

As to rag vs jot, rag has much cleaner power supplies and a sound that while perhaps a scosh less linear, conveyes authority and body. I stress though that even the mighty rag is sniffed at by some he6 aficionados as not being the appropriate fit (I disagree but take their point).


----------



## AverageGuyNC

I've got a question as far as running balanced, if you only change the connecter to XLR, and not change the cables to balanced, will that have any benefit over just running a SE 1/4 inch jack? 

I bought a set of hp off ebay and the guy changedoes out the connector to XLR but the cable is still stock as far as I know. It's a th900 and he said he ran it from an oppo ha1 and I'm considering getting the jotunheim but I was going to switch to 1/4 inch unless there is a benefit (I'm new so..)?


----------



## Mikko Peltonen

averageguync said:


> I've got a question as far as running balanced, if you only change the connecter to XLR, and not change the cables to balanced, will that have any benefit over just running a SE 1/4 inch jack?
> 
> I bought a set of hp off ebay and the guy changedoes out the connector to XLR but the cable is still stock as far as I know. It's a th900 and he said he ran it from an oppo ha1 and I'm considering getting the jotunheim but I was going to switch to 1/4 inch unless there is a benefit (I'm new so..)?


 
  
 Well, it depends. Some stock headphone cables have four conductors: two positives and two negatives, one of each for different sides. In case of a standard 6,3 mm jack, the two ground wires are simply soldered to the same pole on the plug. In a four conductor cable, if the stock plug is cut off and replaced with a four pin XLR connector, you can solder each wire to a different pole on the XLR connector. Then you'd have a balanced cable.


----------



## Share2Care

Hey Ladies & Gents! 

I will be a proud owner of a Jot in the very near future which I must say I am rather excited about and so is my slowly growing collection of Cans...

I would like to get cables for the Jot in prior to its arrival. I am happy to pay for quality cables which would hopefully improve audio, but in my mind there must be a sweet spot for better than standard but relative to the cost of the AMP / DAC combo you are buying the cables for?! Help, advice and guidance most needed as you can see! 

Looking for a USB A to B for connecting the JOT DAC to PC USB cable. Around 1.2 metres 

RCA to 3.5mm Jack as an input from say mobile or MP3 device. .5 or.7 meter should be enough length.

Dual RCA for any other RCA in I may want. .5 or.7 meter should be enough. 

Any other useful cables for the Jot? 

Based in the UK so any local suppliers would be awesome. 

Thank you for any advice and help. Much needed, most appreciated! 

Cheers


----------



## slex

share2care said:


> Hey Ladies & Gents!
> 
> I will be a proud owner of a Jot in the very near future which I must say I am rather excited about and so is my slowly growing collection of Cans...
> 
> ...




You forgot the power cable


----------



## slex

slex said:


> You forgot the power cable The supra range ok. Im using Supra Lorad PC 2.5


----------



## alota

share2care said:


> Hey Ladies & Gents!
> 
> I will be a proud owner of a Jot in the very near future which I must say I am rather excited about and so is my slowly growing collection of Cans...
> 
> ...


 
 i´m waiting for my jot too.
 i bought this cable: http://www.audiophonics.fr/fr/cables-jack-rca/profigold-prom3401-cable-de-modulation-jack-35-vers-2-rca-ofc-02m-p-9787.html but i have no tried yet.
 about power cable i made mine with a good cable that costs around 4€ meter.
 about the usb cable, i bought one from Uk gold plated but really cheap http://www.ebay.es/itm/310816682092?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 Edit: i have two supra main cables for main system, bought 40€ from german ebay vendor. are really good


----------



## AverageGuyNC

mikko peltonen said:


> Well, it depends. Some stock headphone cables have four conductors: two positives and two negatives, one of each for different sides. In case of a standard 6,3 mm jack, the two ground wires are simply soldered to the same pole on the plug. In a four conductor cable, if the stock plug is cut off and replaced with a four pin XLR connector, you can solder each wire to a different pole on the XLR connector. Then you'd have a balanced cable.




How do I tell if my fostex th900 are like that or not?


----------



## MWSVette

averageguync said:


> How do I tell if my fostex th900 are like that or not?


 

 Believe me they are...


----------



## AverageGuyNC

mwsvette said:


> Believe me they are...




They have 4 cables stock? Alright that's what I needed to know! Thanks!


----------



## MWSVette

averageguync said:


> They have 4 cables stock? Alright that's what I needed to know! Thanks!


 

 Yes, the stock TH900 cable has 4 wires...


----------



## AverageGuyNC

mwsvette said:


> Yes, the stock TH900 cable has 4 wires...




Great! Well I'm learning here. I didn't even know what balanced cables were till I bought these off ebay and I thought you couldn't do it with stock cable. Well fostex th900 with Lawton leather pads and balanced cable? I think I got a good buy now... Only think is he put Neutrik xlr plug on it. I would have put a little more high end connector on it especially when it's only an extra $10 for furutech or something else nice.. Why save money there? Is Neutrik good for xlr connectors?


----------



## MWSVette

averageguync said:


> Great! Well I'm learning here. I didn't even know what balanced cables were till I bought these off ebay and I thought you couldn't do it with stock cable. Well fostex th900 with Lawton leather pads and balanced cable? I think I got a good buy now... Only think is he put Neutrik xlr plug on it. I would have put a little more high end connector on it especially when it's only an extra $10 for furutech or something else nice.. Why save money there?* Is Neutrik good for xlr connectors*?


 
 Yes...


----------



## AverageGuyNC

mwsvette said:


> Yes...




 ok great


----------



## alota

mwsvette said:


> Yes...


 
 agree. neutrik gold pin, cheap and really good


----------



## alota

i don´t understand one thing: if i use a single ended source with jot, the balance headphone out works?.
 in case that it´s possible, how? thank you


----------



## Vigrith

alota said:


> i don´t understand one thing: if i use a single ended source with jot, the balance headphone out works?.
> in case that it´s possible, how? thank you


 
  
 The Jotunheim does all the balancing and splitting, whether your source is or isn't balanced isn't relevant when it comes to the headphone out.
  
 Of course some will argue that feeding it with balanced XLR connectors via a balanced source (such as the Gungnir or Yggdrasil, for example) will also yield positive (or at least different) results than connecting the same DACs via single ended RCA but the balanced headphone out will always work no matter how your source is connected to the Jotunheim.
  
 Edit: I'm far from an engineer of any kind so I have no real grasp of how the internal circuitry handles balanced splitting etc other than the very basics, maybe someone more knowledgeable than I can chime in there.


----------



## Share2Care

slex said:


> You forgot the power cable




You made me laugh, but I would hope some help and advice could be given please.. Especially with your smart answer LoL!

For an incoming new Jotunheim owner, my first Schiit item..I am hoping other Jot owners have cable recommendations. 


Looking for a USB A to B for connecting the Jot DAC to PC USB cable. Around 1.2 metres

RCA to 3.5mm Jack as an input from say mobile or MP3 device. .5 or.7 meter should be enough length.

Dual RCA for any other RCA in I may want. .5 or.7 meter should be enough.

Decent Power Cable... Thanks Slex.. LoL

Any other useful cables for the Jot?

Based in the UK so any local suppliers would be awesome.

Come on my Schiit brothers and sisters...!!

Thank you


----------



## alota

vigrith said:


> The Jotunheim does all the balancing and splitting, whether your source is or isn't balanced isn't relevant when it comes to the headphone out.
> 
> Of course some will argue that feeding it with balanced XLR connectors via a balanced source (such as the Gungnir or Yggdrasil, for example) will also yield positive (or at least different) results than connecting the same DACs via single ended RCA but the balanced headphone out will always work no matter how your source is connected to the Jotunheim.
> 
> Edit: I'm far from an engineer of any kind so I have no real grasp of how the internal circuitry handles balanced splitting etc other than the very basics, maybe someone more knowledgeable than I can chime in there.



Thank you. I'm curious because i had some balanced amps in the past and with single ended in only the same out, due to the circuit.
Well...this is another good point for jotunheim


----------



## Vigrith

share2care said:


> Based in the UK so any local suppliers would be awesome.


 
  
 Both Analogueseduction and Futureshop sell all sorts of cables within the UK, they're my go to every time. I don't do fancy cables really, the ones Schiit sells (both RCA and USB) are of sufficient quality and definitely not lacking in any way in my opinion, they are also quite cheap so that's always nice.
  
 If you don't want to buy the ones Schiit sells I also have the Chord C-Line RCAs which are super sturdy, look cool and sound just fine, bit more expensive than Schiit's ones though. Supra powercables are good as has been mentioned by other users prior, I have 3 or 4 of them that I bought for prices between 30 to 40 quid each.
  
 If you want a different brand USB too then Audioquest forest/cinnamon are supposedly great (I've never tried them), Wireworld makes very nice cables in general, I have one of their power cables and a few USB ones too, no complaints. I bought a Wireworld Ultraviolet (40£) and a Starlight (80-90£) a few months back to try and spot any differences between them and the USB Schiit sells, didn't really notice anything relevant but I'm far from a super critical listener. They look good, that's good enough for me. YMMV, of course.


----------



## Share2Care

vigrith said:


> Both Analogueseduction and Futureshop sell all sorts of cables within the UK, they're my go to every time. I don't do fancy cables really, the ones Schiit sells (both RCA and USB) are of sufficient quality and definitely not lacking in any way in my opinion, they are also quite cheap so that's always nice.
> 
> If you don't want to buy the ones Schiit sells I also have the Chord C-Line RCAs which are super sturdy, look cool and sound just fine, bit more expensive than Schiit's ones though. Supra powercables are good as has been mentioned by other users prior, I have 3 or 4 of them that I bought for prices between 30 to 40 quid each.
> 
> If you want a different brand USB too then Audioquest forest/cinnamon are supposedly great (I've never tried them), Wireworld makes very nice cables in general, I have one of their power cables and a few USB ones too, no complaints. I bought a Wireworld Ultraviolet (40£) and a Starlight (80-90£) a few months back to try and spot any differences between them and the USB Schiit sells, didn't really notice anything relevant but I'm far from a super critical listener. They look good, that's good enough for me. YMMV, of course.




Really appreciate you taking the time for thoughts, opinions and links to various sellers of cables... And the complimentary pinch of salt that a £100 cable must be better than a £20 cable. 

Thanks Vigrith. Appreciated


----------



## lentoviolento

hi everyone!
 i have lcd2 , which one is better, jot or lyr2 with LISST??
 i had a chord mojo and it sounded very good, i don't uderstand why everyone says that lcd2 needs a powerful amp...


----------



## alota

lentoviolento said:


> hi everyone!
> i have lcd2 , which one is better, jot or lyr2 with LISST??
> i had a chord mojo and it sounded very good, i don't uderstand why everyone says that lcd2 needs a powerful amp...



If you are happy with mojo, don't change
P.s.: i'm the one who called you for the jotunheim.


----------



## MikeW

Don't be ridiculous, as long as the cable is well made it's fine. a Fukking coat hanger will get the job done, and be incomparable in a blind test. I like MonoPrice, or if you want to get really fancy, Blue Jeans Cable. But anything more then that is a huge waste of money. The power cable that comes in the box is more then adequate, however if you want a thick, heavy cable, that's really hard to bend around corners, and is so stiff that it moves your gear around, there are plenty of water hose audiofool power cords for several hundred dollars.
  
 For USB, anything more then a Belkin Gold is silly, though if you want you could buy one, wrap it with some cool leet snake skin schiit and then dip it in glitter for the best sound.
 https://www.amazon.com/Belkin-Gold-6-Foot-Cable-DSTP/dp/B00004Z5T2
  
 Picked up a Jotunheim last week, re-terminated my D2k's to balanced (5$ neutrik connector baby) and im having a ball. The integrated DAC is quite good, an improvement over the Odac I had before, not technically im sure, but it's definitely a warmer source, and gives nothing up in details.
  
 I did listen single ended for awhile, I did notice it seemed "blacker" after going Balanced, also alot more gain available for classical, were high gain maxed volume was possible in some classical that had huge range, now I have more volume then I can handle.
  
 Also works great as pre-amp/dac for my JBL LSR305's, the whole setup is rather clean with a single Jotunheim, pair of 305's and balanced headphones, balanced out's to the JBL's too.. simple, clean, and effective. I really recommend this to anyone who's looking to downsize or simplify. I wanted a one box solution..


----------



## lentoviolento

alota said:


> If you are happy with mojo, don't change
> P.s.: i'm the one who called you for the jotunheim.


 

 hi!
 i don't remember honestly...
 did you buy the jot at the end?


----------



## alota

lentoviolento said:


> hi!
> i don't remember honestly...
> did you buy the jot at the end?


yes, bought new from schiit europe. We spoke recently for your jot on subito site


----------



## rcoleman1

Anybody using the Jot balanced with Ether C Flows? Impressions? Sorry if I missed it in the thread. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Svatopluk

averageguync said:


> ok great


 
 Trust me, you're good to go with the Neutrik XLR connector and balanced factory cable.The cable is high quality and the gauge of the wire is very healthy compared to most cables regardless of price.
 Looking forward to your impressions once you've received the Jotunheim.


----------



## AverageGuyNC

svatopluk said:


> Trust me, you're good to go with the Neutrik XLR connector and balanced factory cable.The cable is high quality and the gauge of the wire is very healthy compared to most cables regardless of price.
> Looking forward to your impressions once you've received the Jotunheim.




Thanks, I can't wait to try it out. Been a few weeks and no way to listen to them and the only other nice set of hp I've had are hifiman he400i with O2/odac, so thinking th900 with jot would be a big improvement over that even though I was happy with the he400i. 

The xlr I think are nickel plated and look big and stout, like it would never break. Don't have to worry about it falling apart.


----------



## AverageGuyNC

mikew said:


> Don't be ridiculous, as long as the cable is well made it's fine. a Fukking coat hanger will get the job done, and be incomparable in a blind test. I like MonoPrice, or if you want to get really fancy, Blue Jeans Cable. But anything more then that is a huge waste of money. The power cable that comes in the box is more then adequate, however if you want a thick, heavy cable, that's really hard to bend around corners, and is so stiff that it moves your gear around, there are plenty of water hose audiofool power cords for several hundred dollars.
> 
> For USB, anything more then a Belkin Gold is dumb, though if you want you could buy one, wrap it with some cool leet snake skin schiit and then dip it in glitter for the best sound.
> https://www.amazon.com/Belkin-Gold-6-Foot-Cable-DSTP/dp/B00004Z5T2
> ...




So no reason to purchase an external dac in your opinion? I'm thinking of getting a Multibit DAC even tho the jotunheim has a built in one. Hmm, maybe wait a little while and go all the way to a gumby!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

mikew said:


> For USB, anything more then a Belkin Gold is *dumb*


 
 Profanity is one thing, a victimless crime, but there is no acceptable social situation for this term except as jargon meaning "slowed," as in, "third quarter growth has been dumb due to currency headwinds caused by 'Brexit'..."
  
 Would you mind refraining?


----------



## DavidA

averageguync said:


> So no reason to purchase an external dac in your opinion? I'm thinking of getting a Multibit DAC even tho the jotunheim has a built in one. Hmm, maybe wait a little while and go all the way to a gumby!


 
 order the jot without the DAC


----------



## AverageGuyNC

davida said:


> order the jot without the DAC




I bought one off ebay today, came with dac. I don't mind paying for a modi multibit if there is enough improvement.. I've been trying Google for this and seems to be a small improvement. I might just wait and get a gumby eventually. But if there isn't an improvement to have a balanced dac rather than se with it, then may not be worth it. I'll try it out with the dac in it first.

 I'm not an audiophile, just like a decent experience listening to music and movies on my computer.


----------



## DavidA

averageguync said:


> I bought one off ebay today, came with dac. I don't mind paying for a modi multibit if there is enough improvement.. I've been trying Google for this and seems to be a small improvement. I might just wait and get a gumby eventually. But if there isn't an improvement to have a balanced dac rather than se with it, then may not be worth it. I'll try it out with the dac in it first.
> 
> I'm not an audiophile, just like a decent experience listening to music and movies on my computer.


 
 cool, I didn't know you got it from ebay.
  
 As for balanced it depends on the entire audio chain, I have a UD-301 which has balanced output and used it with a friends liquid glass for a month and between balanced and SE output there was very little to no sonic differences to me, my GF and a few other friends who got the hear the setup.  Granted we are not "golden ears" but many seem to hear a difference on the Jot between balanced and SE.  The difference between SE and balanced has a lot to do with the design of the amp, some work better in balanced while some work great either way.  The Jot is about the cheapest amp that I know of which gives you the option of balanced or SE.  When I tried the Jot at a friends place it was hooked up to a Master 7 and MHDT Pagoda (balanced option) and since I had my HD-800 and HD-650 along with my friends HD-800 and HD-650 it was easy to just switch headphones to go between balanced and SE with a little volume adjustment but I didn't really do serious listening since the overall sound of the Jot is a bit too bright for me.  With the HD-650 the brightness is actually good but with the HD-800 it gets harsh and sibilant.


----------



## AverageGuyNC

davida said:


> cool, I didn't know you got it from ebay.
> 
> As for balanced it depends on the entire audio chain, I have a UD-301 which has balanced output and used it with a friends liquid glass for a month and between balanced and SE output there was very little to no sonic differences to me, my GF and a few other friends who got the hear the setup.  Granted we are not "golden ears" but many seem to hear a difference on the Jot between balanced and SE.  The difference between SE and balanced has a lot to do with the design of the amp, some work better in balanced while some work great either way.  The Jot is about the cheapest amp that I know of which gives you the option of balanced or SE.  When I tried the Jot at a friends place it was hooked up to a Master 7 and MHDT Pagoda (balanced option) and since I had my HD-800 and HD-650 along with my friends HD-800 and HD-650 it was easy to just switch headphones to go between balanced and SE with a little volume adjustment but I didn't really do serious listening since the overall sound of the Jot is a bit too bright for me.  With the HD-650 the brightness is actually good but with the HD-800 it gets harsh and sibilant.




I'll be using fostex th900 (balanced) and hifiman he400i (se) with it. And this jotunheim looks mint, he said it just sits there and has less than 10 hours on it. I saw one on here a few hours after I bought mine for a little less than what I paid, but this one is as good as new if he was honest.


----------



## slex

averageguync said:


> I bought one off ebay today, came with dac. I don't mind paying for a modi multibit if there is enough improvement.. I've been trying Google for this and seems to be a small improvement. I might just wait and get a gumby eventually. But if there isn't an improvement to have a balanced dac rather than se with it, then may not be worth it. I'll try it out with the dac in it first.
> 
> I'm not an audiophile, just like a decent experience listening to music and movies on my computer.




Matching Jot with gumby, don't you think the difference in size and dimension is odd not to mention thier difference in pricing? I'll be getting the denaflips r2r Ares, just the perfect match with jot especially if you have the black ones.


----------



## AverageGuyNC

slex said:


> Matching Jot with gumby, don't you think the difference in size and dimension is odd not to mention thier difference in pricing? I'll be getting the denaflips r2r Ares, just the perfect match with jot especially if you have the black ones.




Yes, the size difference would be off. The one I'm getting is silver. I may even get some other dac, but interested in how this sounds first. Don't want to spend $600+ for a 5% improvement


----------



## slex

averageguync said:


> Yes, the size difference would be off. The one I'm getting is silver. I may even get some other dac, but interested in how this sounds first. Don't want to spend $600+ for a 5% improvement



According the op thread of denaflips Ares. It is comparable with Holo Spring Dac with less then half of its price.
Holo spring is also comparable with big brother Yggy. So definitely is more 5% improvement


----------



## lentoviolento

so anyone for a dispute between jot and lyr 2?? i have to decide...


----------



## DavidA

averageguync said:


> Yes, the size difference would be off. The one I'm getting is silver. I may even get some other dac, but interested in how this sounds first. Don't want to spend $600+ for a 5% improvement


 
 your 5% might be my 20%, hard to make calls like this
  
 TH-900 is nice as is HE-400i, Jot is over kill for both and I think it might make the 400i a bit too bright, and I like Grado headphones.
  
 Quote:


lentoviolento said:


> so anyone for a dispute between jot and lyr 2?? i have to decide...


 
 For me the Lyr2, just due to the reason you can roll tubes but it would also depend on the headphones that you have.


----------



## AverageGuyNC

slex said:


> According the op thread of denaflips Ares. It is comparable with Holo Spring Dac with less then half of its price.
> Holo spring is also comparable with big brother Yggy. So definitely is more 5% improvement




Yeah but that's wayyy more than what I was talking about spending. I was more thinking about a used ~1k unit for 6 or seven hundred in good shape as my most expensive right now. The gumby is 1200 or so but that's a tough buy for me new. And especially if "I " only hear a small improvement.

 My first step was an o2/odac with he400i and I was thrilled. So th900 balanced with jot is probably going to blow my mind! 

But the ares is a great dac?


----------



## lentoviolento

davida said:


> your 5% might be my 20%, hard to make calls like this
> 
> TH-900 is nice as is HE-400i, Jot is over kill for both and I think it might make the 400i a bit too bright, and I like Grado headphones.
> 
> ...


 

 i have lcd2 f, i would use only LISST, i'm not interested in jumping on rolling tubes train...


----------



## AverageGuyNC

lentoviolento said:


> so anyone for a dispute between jot and lyr 2?? i have to decide...




Looking at specs- the lyrics has tubes, the Jot has balanced out. 

The lyr has worse thd and snr. But probably not enough to make it noticeable. 

Seems like depends on if you want tubes or not. Both have lots of power. Lyr would get hot(er)

 I'm kinda new but I've been reading a lot and learning, the experienced guys could say more, I'm sure


----------



## lentoviolento

averageguync said:


> Yeah but that's wayyy more than what I was talking about spending. I was more thinking about a used ~1k unit for 6 or seven hundred in good shape as my most expensive right now. The gumby is 1200 or so but that's a tough buy for me new. And especially if "I " only hear a small improvement.
> 
> My first step was an o2/odac with he400i and I was thrilled. So th900 balanced with jot is probably going to blow my mind!
> 
> But the ares is a great dac?


 

 the modi multibit is good enough, don't waste your money in hi end dacs, the improvements are virtually impossible to detect. they exist only "on paper", i dare anyone in an A/B blind test...


----------



## AverageGuyNC

davida said:


> your 5% might be my 20%, hard to make calls like this
> 
> TH-900 is nice as is HE-400i, Jot is over kill for both and I think it might make the 400i a bit too bright, and I like Grado headphones.
> 
> ...




I mean 5% for me of course. My th900 were redone into balanced. I figure I will leave it on low gain and not turn it up too loud. My o2-amp-odac was not quite powerful enough for what I wanted for my he400i. I had to tune up the gain for some songs. 

 I was going to use an eq on my computer to help it sound like what I want. 

I keep hearing about all these great headphones like grado and would love to try them out. But I wanted high end closed backs with plenty of bass. Any other hp you would recommend? Could be open back but for under 1k and decent bass. Thought maybe try the hd650?


----------



## AverageGuyNC

lentoviolento said:


> the modi multibit is good enough, don't waste your money in hi end dacs, the improvements are virtually impossible to detect. they exist only "on paper", i dare anyone in an A/B blind test...




What I hear a lot. I sometimes wonder when I read reviews comparing 6-7 DACs and they can come up with different strengths and words to describe of each. It's almost like wine tasting, you can say whatever you want and for most part are taken seriously.


----------



## lentoviolento

averageguync said:


> I mean 5% for me of course. My th900 were redone into balanced. I figure I will leave it on low gain and not turn it up too loud. My o2-amp-odac was not quite powerful enough for what I wanted for my he400i. I had to tune up the gain for some songs.
> 
> I was going to use an eq on my computer to help it sound like what I want.
> 
> I keep hearing about all these great headphones like grado and would love to try them out. But I wanted high end closed backs with plenty of bass. Any other hp you would recommend? Could be open back but for under 1k and decent bass. Thought maybe try the hd650?


 
 sennheiser hd650 and 600 are old hp.. under 1k there are plenty, from creative aurvana live at a ridiculous price with plenty of bass (foster driver), up to audeze that for me are an end game hp (also had lcdx but they were too bright for me)


----------



## lentoviolento

averageguync said:


> What I hear a lot. I sometimes wonder when I read reviews comparing 6-7 DACs and they can come up with different strengths and words to describe of each. It's almost like wine tasting, you can say whatever you want and for most part are taken seriously.


 

 ahahahah you are damn right... i listened to at least 20 amps and dac in the last year.. they were all very similar.. i ended buying the best for my pocket.
 for example, chord mojo (650s) vs fulla 2(100s) , chord is more "resolving" but it doesn't worth the price


----------



## AverageGuyNC

lentoviolento said:


> sennheiser hd650 and 600 are old hp.. under 1k there are plenty, from creative aurvana live at a ridiculous price with plenty of bass (foster driver), up to audeze that for me are an end game hp (also had lcdx but they were too bright for me)




Have you tried audeze lcd2? Seems like used might be in my price range. I saw a senn hd800 listed on here in good working order but some cosmetic dmg for 600? But doesnt have much bass?


----------



## lentoviolento

now i have to decide between lyr2 and jot ( i had it for a short time but i had to sell it) and settle once and for all...


----------



## AverageGuyNC

lentoviolento said:


> now i have to decide between lyr2 and jot ( i had it for a short time but i had to sell it) and settle once and for all...




Buy both and tell us!


----------



## windcar

averageguync said:


> I mean 5% for me of course. My th900 were redone into balanced. I figure I will leave it on low gain and not turn it up too loud. My o2-amp-odac was not quite powerful enough for what I wanted for my he400i. I had to tune up the gain for some songs.
> 
> I was going to use an eq on my computer to help it sound like what I want.
> 
> I keep hearing about all these great headphones like grado and would love to try them out. But I wanted high end closed backs with plenty of bass. Any other hp you would recommend? Could be open back but for under 1k and decent bass. Thought maybe try the hd650?


 
 What is your preferred sound signature? I see you have a th900 and 400i, if you love the treble from those cans, then 650 might be too dark for you. Also, it's hard to find an open can with th900 amount of bass.


----------



## AverageGuyNC

windcar said:


> What is your preferred sound signature? I see you have a th900 and 400i, if you love the treble from those cans, then 650 might be too dark for you. Also, it's hard to find an open can with th900 amount of bass.




I could use the th900 at night so could go for open back. 

I'm just looking for great clarity and " being able to hear new things in my music" and I mostly a rookie who watches music videos of rock, rap, techno, pop etc on YouTube (I know that could get me killed on here, our secret). And I watch movies and want plenty of boom when there are explosions


----------



## lentoviolento

if you don't listen to classic music i don't see any reason to buy hd800 and spend a lot to resolve their flaws..
 they are old model!!
 lcd2 is the best i tried in the last year. and it's not so hard to drive as they say. mojo did a good job and fulla too.
 good bass and detail


----------



## lentoviolento

averageguync said:


> I could use the th900 at night so could go for open back.
> 
> I'm just looking for great clarity and " being able to hear new things in my music" and I mostly a rookie who watches music videos of rock, rap, techno, pop etc on YouTube (I know that could get me killed on here, our secret). And I watch movies and want plenty of boom when there are explosions


 

 hd800 is the last can you have to buy.........................
 i see yoi have 400i... it's a senn 650 under steroids. no porpouse in buying a version of 400i older and harder to drive


----------



## AverageGuyNC

lentoviolento said:


> if you don't listen to classic music i don't see any reason to buy hd800 and spend a lot to resolve their flaws..
> they are old model!!
> lcd2 is the best i tried in the last year. and it's not so hard to drive as they say. mojo did a good job and fulla too.
> good bass and detail




OK thanks! Looking for some bargains in the audio world but good quality. Hd650 being dark is more about mid bass and not sub bass as much right?


----------



## AverageGuyNC

lentoviolento said:


> hd800 is the last can you have to buy.........................
> i see yoi have 400i... it's a senn 650 under steroids. no porpouse in buying a version of 400i older and harder to drive




For my music preference, seems like th900 are best for me. I would love to try the 800s but doubt I will spend that much. And no way to find a decent deal, just too popular. Saw some $1175 earlier. And like I said earlier, I won't have my jotunheim until late next week so I have not even heard the th900 yet to know if they are what I want


----------



## windcar

averageguync said:


> I'm just looking for great clarity and " being able to hear new things in my music"


 
 Great clarity and resolve well : HD800. Most people will not like the sound out from a SS amp, be warned.
 Great clarity: SRS-3000


----------



## AverageGuyNC

windcar said:


> Great clarity and resolve well : HD800. Most people will not like the sound out from a SS amp, be warned.
> 
> Great clarity: SRS-3000




Is "resolve well" the term for hearing new stuff? I learning these terms ha! I want good bass but with some help from eq on computer... I'll probably wait till the 800s goes down to under 1k. I'm considering audeze next. But will give the 3000 a look too!


----------



## alota

averageguync said:


> Is "resolve well" the term for hearing new stuff? I learning these terms ha! I want good bass but with some help from eq on computer... I'll probably wait till the 800s goes down to under 1k. I'm considering audeze next. But will give the 3000 a look too!



I.have no.tried the 800s but i had the 800 woth two different cables and used with little-dot mkVI and balanced beta-22. Good with first amplifier and tube rolling, horrible with second. If you don't have right system, don't buy


----------



## DavidA

lentoviolento said:


> i have lcd2 f, i would use only LISST, i'm not interested in jumping on rolling tubes train...


 
 If you are only going to use the Lyr2 with LISST then get the Jot, its cheaper and has the option of balanced out.
  
 I don't use my Lyr2 with my LCD-2f, actually sounds better to me on Ember or headphone output of UD-301, a better pairing to me.


averageguync said:


> I mean 5% for me of course. My th900 were redone into balanced. I figure I will leave it on low gain and not turn it up too loud. My o2-amp-odac was not quite powerful enough for what I wanted for my he400i. I had to tune up the gain for some songs.
> 
> I was going to use an eq on my computer to help it sound like what I want.
> 
> I keep hearing about all these great headphones like grado and would love to try them out. But I wanted high end closed backs with plenty of bass. Any other hp you would recommend? Could be open back but for under 1k and decent bass. Thought maybe try the hd650?


 
 For a complimentary headphone to the HE-400i and TH-900 the HD-650 would be a good middle point but I think a Grado RS2e or GH-1 would be an even bigger contrast but both might just be too bright with the Jot, just change the ear pads to cheap Earzonk G pads or get them even cheaper on ebay for $5-6/pair, the PS500e is the warmest of the Grado line so that might be okay with the Jot.  The other headphone that might interest you is the new Beyer Amiron, most say its like a better HD-650.  The other headphone that I've been looking at is the ZMF Atticus but too few have been released so far to get a good sample size.  The two other headphones I'd suggest are the HD-700 and HD-800 but they really don't pair well with the Jot.


----------



## AverageGuyNC

davida said:


> If you are only going to use the Lyr2 with LISST then get the Jot, its cheaper and has the option of balanced out.
> 
> I don't use my Lyr2 with my LCD-2f, actually sounds better to me on Ember or headphone output of UD-301, a better pairing to me.
> For a complimentary headphone to the HE-400i and TH-900 the HD-650 would be a good middle point but I think a Grado RS2e or GH-1 would be an even bigger contrast but both might just be too bright with the Jot, just change the ear pads to cheap Earzonk G pads or get them even cheaper on ebay for $5-6/pair, the PS500e is the warmest of the Grado line so that might be okay with the Jot.  The other headphone that might interest you is the new Beyer Amiron, most say its like a better HD-650.  The other headphone that I've been looking at is the ZMF Atticus but too few have been released so far to get a good sample size.  The two other headphones I'd suggest are the HD-700 and HD-800 but they really don't pair well with the Jot.




The 400i I only got because of good reviews since I had no idea what to get (Google told me to get them). 

I've been reading a lot though and think the th900 is what I'm looking for. The Jot can run about anything and is one of the cheapest options for balanced out. I'm trying to find good options. The guy I bought the th900 from was using the oppo ha-1 but that's a little expensive for me.


----------



## DavidA

averageguync said:


> The 400i I only got because of good reviews since I had no idea what to get (Google told me to get them).
> 
> I've been reading a lot though and think the th900 is what I'm looking for. The Jot can run about anything and is one of the cheapest options for balanced out. I'm trying to find good options. The guy I bought the th900 from was using the oppo ha-1 but that's a little expensive for me.


 
 I have a TH-600 but its been modded with dynamat and removable cables, since it can be a bit bright (TH-900 is a touch brighter than the TH-600 to me) I tend to use a Project Ember or the headphone output of the UD-301 to drive them, keeps the highs from becoming harsh and overly bright.  The TH-600 is my fun headphones when I want the kick A_ _ bass but I can also get bass close to this from a highly modded HE-400, which I think has better cleaner more detailed bass than the TH-600 and TH-X00 that I had.


----------



## slex

averageguync said:


> Yeah but that's wayyy more than what I was talking about spending. I was more thinking about a used ~1k unit for 6 or seven hundred in good shape as my most expensive right now. The gumby is 1200 or so but that's a tough buy for me new. And especially if "I " only hear a small improvement.
> 
> My first step was an o2/odac with he400i and I was thrilled. So th900 balanced with jot is probably going to blow my mind!
> 
> But the ares is a great dac?



My dealer say mid March arriving, will know by then.They key point im getting this is my local support with 1 year warranty without the hassle of shipping. My dealer location is just 5 minutes drive away


----------



## AverageGuyNC

davida said:


> I have a TH-600 but its been modded with dynamat and removable cables, since it can be a bit bright (TH-900 is a touch brighter than the TH-600 to me) I tend to use a Project Ember or the headphone output of the UD-301 to drive them, keeps the highs from becoming harsh and overly bright.  The TH-600 is my fun headphones when I want the kick A_ _ bass but I can also get bass close to this from a highly modded HE-400, which I think has better cleaner more detailed bass than the TH-600 and TH-X00 that I had.




There is a guy willing to sell a he400 for pretty cheap on here ($150) and I could get that and mod it. Just for fun and see what happens since he would sell it cheap. Saw 400s go for around 160 too.


----------



## AverageGuyNC

slex said:


> My dealer say mid March arriving, will know by then.They key point im getting this is my local support with 1 year warranty without the hassle of shipping. My dealer location is just 5 minutes drive away




I don't have a local dealer higher end than best buy. It's all online and reviews for me


----------



## DavidA

averageguync said:


> There is a guy willing to sell a he400 for pretty cheap on here ($150) and I could get that and mod it. Just for fun and see what happens since he would sell it cheap. Saw 400s go for around 160 too.


 
 $150 for the HE-400 is a pretty good deal but just remember you might have to buy new pads (I like the Focus pads which are a bit pricy at $40, or go with velour for $10, take the rings out and get some HM5 pads for $25.  This might be a good pairing since I use my Asgard2 which is closer to the Jot in sound signature than to my Ember or Lyr2.
  


averageguync said:


> I don't have a local dealer higher end than best buy. It's all online and reviews for me


 
 I'm like you, Best Buy is it, but I've met a few other Head-Fi members and have gotten together with them and I have a super rich friend in Japan who is over in Hawaii 3-5 times a year and he lets me borrow his gear for a few months at a time, last thing that he brought over was his Liquid Glass, about as good as it gets with any headphone but I've been spending my extra funds on wine more often than audio gear these days.


----------



## Dimitris

Wine it definitely a better investment of money than a liquid glass.


----------



## tunes

I am currently using the Jot and Mimby with nice results for my HIFIMAN HEK v2 but after auditioning the Chord HUGO 2 at the NYC show, I am probably going to upgrade to use the HUGO as a standalone direct drive for the HEK.


----------



## Vigrith

tunes said:


> I am currently using the Jot and Mimby with nice results for my HIFIMAN HEK v2 but after auditioning the Chord HUGO 2 at the NYC show, I am probably going to upgrade to use the HUGO as a standalone direct drive for the HEK.


 
  
 I mean, considering the Schiit setup is about 1/4th of the price of the Hugo 2 I'd be surprised if one wouldn't want to upgrade. Plus the Hugo (standard version) has always paired well with planars in my opinion, same with its big brother, the TT.


----------



## Dimitris

I would be surprised if hugo amp section is better than jot. Dac is a different conversation.


----------



## AverageGuyNC

​Go ahead and sell me mimby then


----------



## lentoviolento

i still don't know what to choose between jot and lyr 2.
 a friend of mine said that there's no way lyr 2 is that powerful...


----------



## Vigrith

lentoviolento said:


> i still don't know what to choose between jot and lyr 2.
> a friend of mine said that there's no way lyr 2 is that powerful...


 
  
 Well it's pretty hard to choose for you, do you own exclusively planar headphones? Do you wanna tube roll and/or do you like the sound of tubes? If the answer to one or to both of those questions is no then why would you get a Lyr 2.


----------



## lentoviolento

For now i have only lcd2, not planning to buy another can in the near future.. Maybe elear. 
We'll see.. 
I would buy LISST set because i don't want tube rolling.. 
But lyr2 is powerful without going balanced.. Jot in SE is weak... 
Heeeelp


----------



## MWSVette

lentoviolento said:


> i still don't know what to choose between jot and lyr 2.
> a friend of mine said that there's no way lyr 2 is that powerful...


 

 I have both and they are that powerful...


----------



## lentoviolento

mwsvette said:


> I have both and they are that powerful...




So what should i buy then? Lyr 2 with lisst or jot with a balanved cable? 
I have modi multibit...


----------



## MWSVette

lentoviolento said:


> So what should i buy then? Lyr 2 with lisst or jot with a balanved cable?
> I have modi multibit...


 
  
 It depends, if you are going to use the Lyr 2 with LISST there by making it solid state, just get the Jot.  I do like have a balanced amp.
  
 If you want to try tube rolling the obvious choice is the Lyr 2...
  
 Both are good choices for a variety of cans...


----------



## lentoviolento

mwsvette said:


> It depends, if you are going to use the Lyr 2 with LISST there by making it solid state, just get the Jot.  I do like have a balanced amp.
> 
> If you want to try tube rolling the obvious choice is the Lyr 2...
> 
> Both are good choices for a variety of cans...




Thank you! No tube rolling is too expensive and i want an end game for my possibilities. The thing i like about lyr is that is powerful without needing an aftermarket cable... But is more expensive too


----------



## MWSVette

lentoviolento said:


> Thank you! No tube rolling is too expensive and i want an end game for my possibilities. The thing i like about lyr is that is powerful without needing an aftermarket cable... But is more expensive too


 

 The Jot has plenty of power in SE mode also...


----------



## thefitz

The Lyr doesn't have tubes in the power section, so it's tube rolling lite. But I loved the LISST. The Jot is markedly brighter than the original Lyr with LISST that I had. 

I had an original, no-roll Valhalla that I sold for less than the cost of a CH800S that I bought to use with the Jot. Maybe not the best idea!


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

My Jot will be to me on Tuesday of next week. I sold my Ragnarok to buy a Jot btw...it'll be interesting. I'll be preamping with a Freya as well, which contributed to me getting rid of the Ragnarok (as preamp duties for my speaker setup).

 So Lossless on Foobar > Singxer Su-1 > Holo Spring Dac Lvl3 >> balanced to Freya >> balanced to Jotunheim >> balanced to HD800/HE560 and soon to be EMU Teak.


----------



## Starburp701

lentoviolento said:


> i still don't know what to choose between jot and lyr 2.
> a friend of mine said that there's no way lyr 2 is that powerful...




I run LCD 2's with a Lyr but didn't realize the Lyr was what I needed until it was right in my face. Coming from Hifiman EF-5, which is also a tube hybrid, with 1 watt per channel wasn't sufficient enough to make my LCD 2's (2016 Adorama exclusives if that helps) sing the way the Lyr does. My vol pot is only 1/4 of the way up and it is what most people would consider loud. Half way up the pot would be too uncomfortable to listen to but this is a good thing because Ohms don't matter with the Orthos. You want current, which is watts per channel in this case, that will max the efficiency of your cans, and the Lyr 1/2 does by far the best job besides maybe a Mjolnir 2 which sounds better with a balanced connection and had a lower noise floor.

Hope this helps.


----------



## MWSVette

soundsgoodtome said:


> My Jot will be to me on Tuesday of next week. I sold my Ragnarok to buy a Jot btw...it'll be interesting. I'll be preamping with a Freya as well, which contributed to me getting rid of the Ragnarok (as preamp duties for my speaker setup).


 

 Cannot wait to hear your comparison of the two...


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

mwsvette said:


> Cannot wait to hear your comparison of the two...


 
 I'm skeptically hopeful 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Some have said that the Jot is the best offering sound-wise in the entire Schiit line-up; I wonder if these people have had the Ragnarok for an extended time in their home to listen to or perhaps they're experiencing the magic of syngergy. I don't know any of these persons firsthand btw, just grapevine stuff.

 I feel with the Freya and Jott together ($1100 in cost together) it may be competing as a side-grade to the Rag, at least I'm hoping. If it takes a very slight SQ hit for headphones, I'd still be content considering I've played well for my speaker rig with the Freya. We shall see

 SGTM


----------



## lentoviolento

so the lyr 2 should be the choice for my lcd2.. it is more powerful than the jot.....
 if i had the money i would buy both of them...


----------



## thefitz

The LCD-2 is not particularly power hungry.


----------



## Starburp701

lentoviolento said:


> so the lyr 2 should be the choice for my lcd2.. it is more powerful than the jot.....
> if i had the money i would buy both of them...



Oi personally feel as though the Lyr was made for LCD 2's. You may regret the Jot but you will in no way regret the Lyr


----------



## MikeW

averageguync said:


> So no reason to purchase an external dac in your opinion? I'm thinking of getting a Multibit DAC even tho the jotunheim has a built in one. Hmm, maybe wait a little while and go all the way to a gumby!


 
  
 I've been doing this for awhile, i've experimented alot, built amps, built dac's, tried many things and im not a huge believer in DAC's beyond a certain performance point. Lot of Modi Multibits have been sold recently, they are FOTM. Alot of people bought them, and then decided they wanted a Jotunheim, they "want" their Modi to sound better, and expect it too, so of course it does. I will tell you, the Balanced 4490 in the Jotunheim, technically measures better then Modi Multibit, we'll have to leave it at that.
  
 But i encourage you to find out for yourself, buy a Multi-Bit and try it, but do it right. The Jotunheim will make it very easy to A/B these at the same volume level.


----------



## nicdub

lentoviolento said:


> so the lyr 2 should be the choice for my lcd2.. it is more powerful than the jot.....
> if i had the money i would buy both of them...




I have the first Lyr and the Jot, and both are excellent with the LCD 2. You wouldn't regret either purchase.


----------



## Starburp701

nicdub said:


> I have the first Lyr and the Jot, and both are excellent with the LCD 2. You wouldn't regret either purchase.




There ya go. Worst cas scenario, you have 15 days to return either and get the other one. I would probably start with Jot because it is the least powerful. Don't let people tell you they don't need power though. Just because you can get the volume loud doesn't mean that your cans are working to your full potential. The higher end is easier to drive so you will get that volume but to get the low end there you do need sufficient wattage. good luck!


----------



## deFiniLoGy

Loving mine 
  
 Just waiting for my Toxic Cable to arrive now!!


----------



## lentoviolento

[COLOR=FF00AA][/COLOR]

Unfortunatly in italy there s no 14 days return policy... So i have to decide what is best for my lcd2.. 
Does lyr2have noise floor? When the music is low i hate to hear "ssssssh"...


----------



## AverageGuyNC

lentoviolento said:


> [COLOR=FF00AA][/COLOR]
> 
> Unfortunatly in italy there s no 14 days return policy... So i have to decide what is best for my lcd2..
> Does lyr2have noise floor? When the music is low i hate to hear "ssssssh"...




Hey I was looking at balanced cables for lcd2 on ebay and there was a guy selling a brand new audeze one from his lcd-x for $70, a lot cheaper than the custom ones. Might help you save money if you decided to go with jotunheim and went balanced. Idk about shipping but assuming he will do it.

I personally would go jotunheim and get a balanced cable if you decide you want more power.


----------



## lentoviolento

averageguync said:


> Hey I was looking at balanced cables for lcd2 on ebay and there was a guy selling a brand new audeze one from his lcd-x for $70, a lot cheaper than the custom ones. Might help you save money if you decided to go with jotunheim and went balanced. Idk about shipping but assuming he will do it.
> 
> I personally would go jotunheim and get a balanced cable if you decide you want more power.


 

 i know a guy that makes cables at about 80euros... the cable is the not the problem.. i just wanted the best solution ,an end game amp.. that's all.. i still haven't decided..
 but i wanted to order it tomorrow..


----------



## EtRec

Hello...I'm a very happy owner of a Jot for the last 2 months or so. Have returned a Bimby after seeing little difference to the balanced internal DAC. I especially like the sound as a preamp to my Audioengine N22 amp and P4 passive bamboo speakers and  S8 subwoofer. Thought it was a bit chirpy at first, coming from a Audioengine  D1 dac ( which I liked for years, but wanted to try the jot) . I was hoping for more separation of instruments in the mostly jazz that I listen to. After a 3 day and night burn in to my Sen HD650's > balanced cable, suddenly I could hear things like the snare drums on Bill Evens & Philly Joe Jones "Green Dolphin Street" like I've never heard before. The chirpiness I first heard, especially female vocals was gone. Just fantastic.
  I have 2 questions that maybe someone out there with more expertise can answer for me. Firstly does using the high gain switch most of the time, affect the longevity of the Jot? It doesn't seem to get any warmer in high gain. Secondly, I'm thinking of ordering a Massdrop x AKG K7XX, now on sale. Is it a good match for the Jot?
                                                                                                                                 Thanks so much EtRec


----------



## AverageGuyNC

etrec said:


> Hello...I'm a very happy owner of a Jot for the last 2 months or so. Have returned a Bimby after seeing little difference to the balanced internal DAC. I especially like the sound as a preamp to my Audioengine N22 amp and P4 passive bamboo speakers and  S8 subwoofer. Thought it was a bit chirpy at first, coming from a Audioengine  D1 dac ( which I liked for years, but wanted to try the jot) . I was hoping for more separation of instruments in the mostly jazz that I listen to. After a 3 day and night burn in to my Sen HD650's > balanced cable, suddenly I could hear things like the snare drums on Bill Evens & Philly Joe Jones "Green Dolphin Street" like I've never heard before. The chirpiness I first heard, especially female vocals was gone. Just fantastic.
> I have 2 questions that maybe someone out there with more expertise can answer for me. Firstly does using the high gain switch most of the time, affect the longevity of the Jot? It doesn't seem to get any warmer in high gain. Secondly, I'm thinking of ordering a Massdrop x AKG K7XX, now on sale. Is it a good match for the Jot?
> Thanks so much EtRec




The built in dac pretty good then? I'm glad, wasn't sure if I wanted to put out more money


----------



## MWSVette

averageguync said:


> The built in dac pretty good then? I'm glad, wasn't sure if I wanted to put out more money


 

 Yes, the built in DAC is very good and hard to beat, especially for $100.00...


----------



## alota

I think that some people don't see the principal objective.
The jot is an amplifier, nothing more. If yoy want a dac, you have the possibilitie for 100 dollars to have a dual akm dac.
A dual akm that is one of the best d/s dac in the market
Of course, you have a lot better dacs in the market. From my experience, miracles only an exclusive of jesus christ
Personally, first i try the internal dac. Eventually i will buy a separate dac


----------



## thyname

mwsvette said:


> Yes, the built in DAC is very good and hard to beat, especially for $100.00...




Better than Bifrost DAC?


----------



## EtRec

thyname said:


> Better than Bifrost DAC?


 

 I've tried the 16bit Bitfrost mutibit and sent it back. Yes it was a bit more assertive and louder then the internal 24bit balanced dac, but a little increase in the Jot's volume knob and I could hear little difference ( yes I ran the Bitfrost for 3 days straight before listening). Especially $600 worth. The only other DAC I can compare it with is the Audioengine D1, which I've used happily for years, but I like the Jot's separation more. I listen to mostly Jazz and classical, but the rock I like also sounded great to me. Just my _amateurish opinion. Anyone have experience with the "_Massdrop x AKG K7XX" with the Jot. Thinking of ordering one. I've heard some AKG headphones are a bit forward on the high end which would not go well with the Jot.


----------



## thefitz

etrec said:


> I've tried the 16bit Bitfrost mutibit and sent it back. Yes it was a bit more assertive and louder then the internal 24bit balanced dac, but a little increase in the Jot's volume knob and I could hear little difference ( yes I ran the Bitfrost for 3 days straight before listening). Especially $600 worth. The only other DAC I can compare it with is the Audioengine D1, which I've used happily for years, but I like the Jot's separation more. I listen to mostly Jazz and classical, but the rock I like also sounded great to me. Just my _amateurish opinion. Anyone have experience with the "_Massdrop x AKG K7XX" with the Jot. Thinking of ordering one. I've heard some AKG headphones are a bit forward on the high end which would not go well with the Jot.


Why'd you point out how many bits the DACs are? Doesn't Schiit often say that delta-sigma DACs only have a few bits of actual resolution?


----------



## EtRec

That's true....about the bits. What it comes down to is liking the sound and the 16 to 24bits thing has been gone over in this forum before. Sorry...but it still goes round and round in my head that the higher end Schitt multibit dacs above the bitfrost are 21bit. Does that affect the sound? I don't know. All I know is that I'm happy with the Jot internal DAC .


----------



## thefitz

etrec said:


> That's true....about the bits. What it comes down to is liking the sound and the 16 to 24bits thing has been gone over in this forum before. Sorry...but it still goes round and round in my head that the higher end Schitt multibit dacs above the bitfrost are 21bit. Does that affect the sound? I don't know. All I know is that I'm happy with the Jot internal DAC .


Fair enough, but how much of your decision was based upon paying more for something with "less bits"? 

I have a bimby, but I use Digital Coax so I don't have a whole lot of choice with the onboard DAC.


----------



## Starburp701

lentoviolento said:


> [COLOR=FF00AA][/COLOR]
> 
> Unfortunatly in italy there s no 14 days return policy... So i have to decide what is best for my lcd2..
> Does lyr2have noise floor? When the music is low i hate to hear "ssssssh"...




It can be creepy quiet on the Lyr 1. Lyr 2 has 2 other advantages tho. Gain switch and 2 transformers that feed ac to dc for zero noise


----------



## MWSVette

The original Lyr has a noticeable noise floor when used with efficient headphones or IEM's.  For instance it is quite noticeable with my TH-X00.
  
 The Lyr 2 on the other hand, same headphones and tubes dead silent...


----------



## EtRec

Like I said before...I tried the Bimby and sent it back. I heard little difference from the Jot internal DAC. My ears only. I have Jazz on 24-192 flac and it sounds great on either dac. If your asking me " would I have kept the Bimby at $600 if I enjoyed the sound more then the internal DAC?" the answer is yes. Others hear a big difference. I don't.


----------



## MikeW

The fact that you perceived Bimby to be "Louder" tells me that the volume was not probably 100% matched, and I'd wager if you had the equipment to properly get a perfect volume match between the two dac's and A/B them, the perceived differences would all but vanish. I'd wager the bimby would be more resilient to bad power sources, and give less problems when hooking up to a laptop, or bad power, just based on it's beefy power supply, your less likely to experience any issues there - however if you've got a nice computer system, or an enthusiast class motherboard, many of witch specifically state "Clean USB Power" as a selling feature,  your much less likely to notice a difference, also WYRD helps with the power issues if you've already got a JOT/DAC and are noticing strange things with a laptop. I wouldn't spend money on a decrapifier though, unless you've identified a specific need.
  
 Your not the first one who's bought both units at the same time with no bias, and returned the separate dac. It's mostly people that already owned a Multi-Bit Dac that are saying OMG it's so much better, yadda yadda yadda, you will see in time many of these people will go back and forth between the dac's, and one day they will want new headphones, or speakers, or computer parts, or cash for another hobby, that dac will be the first thing to go
  
 I do have a technical question, the Schiit boy's have stated that D/S dac's are 3-5 bits of resolution, does that mean balanced Jotunheim is 6-10 bits because of it's balanced design? I don't get to hung up on bits, as there's a point of diminishing returns/no returns, maybe around 14 bit, maybe less. That's why you can't tell a difference between 16/44 and 24/96, or 32/192
  
 Edit** many 24/96 recordings are execeptionally good, because they were designed to be "hi fi" 24/96, close attention was paid to the recording/mixing. This has nothing to do with 24/96 or 16/44 and everything to do with the recording. Some recording's are just really well done, i've heard good recording's on 128 KB MP3's that sound better then FLAC's that are highly compressed and schiit recordings.
  
 Furthermore, people need to learn how to EQ. If Jotunheim's not a good match to the HD800 or "Bright phones" just EQ that **** down a bit. We've got really really good parametric EQ's that are available for free, and very powerful/transparent. If your source is a PC, whats the big deal? I get it if your using something else as a source, but on PC there's no excuse.


----------



## MWSVette

thyname said:


> Better than Bifrost DAC?


 

 No, but it does not cost $400.00 (DS) or $600.00 (Multibit) either.
  
 Biggest advantages for the Bifrost are power supply and potential to upgrade with the next new great piece of Schiit technology...


----------



## MarkF786

I have a Bifrost Multibit arriving on Tuesday, so I'll weigh in later with a comparison with the internal DAC.
  
 As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I found the internal DAC generally indistinguishable from the Chord Mojo, which impressed me since I can hear the difference between the Mojo and some lesser DACs.  Granted, this was done in a fairly brief comparison, with the Mojo volume matched to the internal DAC, and A/B'ing them for around a half-hour.  Maybe over a more extended period of time I would perceive a difference.  But I found it inconvenient to use the Mojo with the Jot due to the differences in form factor and power.
  
 If the Bifrost does provide a noticeable difference, the combination with the Jot will likely be my end-game DAC and amp.


----------



## thyname

markf786 said:


> I have a Bifrost Multibit arriving on Tuesday, so I'll weigh in later with a comparison with the internal DAC.
> 
> As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I found the internal DAC generally indistinguishable from the Chord Mojo, which impressed me since I can hear the difference between the Mojo and some lesser DACs.  Granted, this was done in a fairly brief comparison, with the Mojo volume matched to the internal DAC, and A/B'ing them for around a half-hour.  Maybe over a more extended period of time I would perceive a difference.  But I found it inconvenient to use the Mojo with the Jot due to the differences in form factor and power.
> 
> If the Bifrost does provide a noticeable difference, the combination with the Jot will likely be my end-game DAC and amp.




Please report back here once you get the Bifrost Multibit. Very interested in your experience


----------



## Soundofmusic

Any comments on how this dac/amp will suit the HD650, LCD-2F and X2 respectively? I currently have the X2 and a Soundblaster E5, and I kinda long for a bit more analytical sound along the lines of what my cheaper AKG271S give me. 

I'm considering these upgrade combos, buying second hand headphones:
Jotunheim + Mimby + HD650 = $950
Jotunheim w/internal dac + LCD2-F = $1250


----------



## EtRec

mikew said:


> The fact that you perceived Bimby to be "Louder" tells me that the volume was not probably 100% matched, and I'd wager if you had the equipment to properly get a perfect volume match between the two dac's and A/B them, the perceived differences would all but vanish. I'd wager the bimby would be more resilient to bad power sources, and give less problems when hooking up to a laptop, or bad power, just based on it's beefy power supply, your less likely to experience any issues there - however if you've got a nice computer system, or an enthusiast class motherboard, many of witch specifically state "Clean USB Power" as a selling feature,  your much less likely to notice a difference, also WYRD helps with the power issues if you've already got a JOT/DAC and are noticing strange things with a laptop. I wouldn't spend money on a decrapifier though, unless you've identified a specific need.
> 
> Your not the first one who's bought both units at the same time with no bias, and returned the separate dac. It's mostly people that already owned a Multi-Bit Dac that are saying OMG it's so much better, yadda yadda yadda, you will see in time many of these people will go back and forth between the dac's, and one day they will want new headphones, or speakers, or computer parts, or cash for another hobby, that dac will be the first thing to go
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you for explaining the 24-192 flac sound. I did notice that the Jazz recordings I bought do say Hi-Fi. Never understood what they imply but the seperation and clarity sound really good. As to testing the Bimby against the internal dac, the volume difference did make that a hard task, and yet when I compared my old Audioengine D1 dac to the Jot's internal DAC I could hear a clear difference. Was so used to the more laid back, muddled sound of the D1 that I almost didn't like the Jot, but after burning it in for a few days, the clarity and brightness grew on me. Now I can't see myself going back. The sound is coming from a Workstation PC I built myself last year. I think the louder Bitfrost comes from it's power supply and maybe the Jot's internal DAC being USB powered. The volume on my Jotunheim more then meets my needs and rarely needs to go past the 1/4 turn . I do find that when I want to play music at low volume levels, either as a preamp or through my headphones, that it sounds fuller in high gain. In short I am really happy with the Jot+internal DAC.
  PS I recently bought a pair of Shure SE425 earbuds and I love how they sound with the Jot.


----------



## MikeW

The volume difference is more likely the gain stages just outputting more or less gain in one configuration or the other. It's got nothing to do with the power supply or anything else. Maybe one outputs 2.1 volts RMS and the other is 2.0.. something like that is going on.
  
 @ thesoundofmusic The HD 650 is said to be made for the jotunheim, and an excellent pairing, I think that's the way I'd go, maybe even Jotunheim + Internal dac, and used HD650's for ~200$ for a 700$ combo, you can buy some nice craft beer with the savings ;p


----------



## EtRec

mikew said:


> The volume difference is more likely the gain stages just outputting more or less gain in one configuration or the other. It's got nothing to do with the power supply or anything else. Maybe one outputs 2.1 volts RMS and the other is 2.0.. something like that is going on.
> 
> @ thesoundofmusic The HD 650 is said to be made for the jotunheim, and an excellent pairing, I think that's the way I'd go, maybe even Jotunheim + Internal dac, and used HD650's for ~200$ for a 700$ combo, you can buy some nice craft beer with the savings ;p


 

 Thanks, I already have the HD650 with balanced cable. Maybe because they are new, I am enjoying my Shure SE425 earbuds with the Jot. Meant them for my mp3 player but they sound so much better with the Jot. If it wasn't for the short cable I could forget I'm wearing them.


----------



## Kenneth Tang

markf786 said:


> I have a Bifrost Multibit arriving on Tuesday, so I'll weigh in later with a comparison with the internal DAC.
> 
> As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I found the internal DAC generally indistinguishable from the Chord Mojo, which impressed me since I can hear the difference between the Mojo and some lesser DACs.  Granted, this was done in a fairly brief comparison, with the Mojo volume matched to the internal DAC, and A/B'ing them for around a half-hour.  Maybe over a more extended period of time I would perceive a difference.  But I found it inconvenient to use the Mojo with the Jot due to the differences in form factor and power.
> 
> If the Bifrost does provide a noticeable difference, the combination with the Jot will likely be my end-game DAC and amp.


 
  
 Please let us know your finding. I am very interested to know.


----------



## Fred Wang

soundofmusic said:


> Any comments on how this dac/amp will suit the HD650, LCD-2F and X2 respectively? I currently have the X2 and a Soundblaster E5, and I kinda long for a bit more analytical sound along the lines of what my cheaper AKG271S give me.
> 
> I'm considering these upgrade combos, buying second hand headphones:
> Jotunheim + Mimby + HD650 = $950
> Jotunheim w/internal dac + LCD2-F = $1250


 


 I can't comment directly on them, but I'm currently using the Bimby + Jotunheim + Audeze EL-8O, and love the combination. The Jotunheim has a tendency to push out a little bit more clarity, especially in the treble, which I find balances well with the Audeze. I know the EL-8 has a different sound than the LCD-2, but I would say that, when I demoed them, the EL-8 (2016 revision) have a similar sound signature (though definitely still different). It seems to help tame the bass more on the EL-8's, and make it sound more rich while maintaining a lot of detail. 

 I've tried it with the HD650 before as well, and it's done a lot to open up more space in the HD650, and help deal with the so-called "Sennheiser veil."


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I echo that sentiment about EL8 and Audeze generally. Jotunheim reveals about as much as you can, short of Ragnarok. I'd also stick with the internal DAC; it's the best value in Schiit's DAC lineup by far.


----------



## earnmyturns

rcoleman1 said:


> Anybody using the Jot balanced with Ether C Flows? Impressions? Sorry if I missed it in the thread. Thanks in advance.


 
 See my sig for full gear lineup. I listen mainly to modern jazz, world, select classical. What I like about Jot + C Flow is the clarity, fast attack, controlled decay across the frequency range, no excessive emphasis anywhere . Jazz bass, percussion (especially cymbals), guitar show this combo especially well. I also own a Cavalli Liquid Carbon, which does well with the C Flows, especially on voices and strings, but overall, for the music I listen to, the Jot is a better fit.


----------



## AverageGuyNC

earnmyturns said:


> See my sig for full gear lineup. I listen mainly to modern jazz, world, select classical. What I like about Jot + C Flow is the clarity, fast attack, controlled decay across the frequency range, no excessive emphasis anywhere . Jazz bass, percussion (especially cymbals), guitar show this combo especially well. I also own a Cavalli Liquid Carbon, which does well with the C Flows, especially on voices and strings, but overall, for the music I listen to, the Jot is a better fit.




How good of a fit is Jot for new top 40 stuff? Rap, rock, pop, dance-electronic? What's a good amp for that?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Jot would be fine if you're using LCD3 or hd650. If you wanna use an hd800, I'd go for vali, Valhalla, or mjolnir.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Why not the hd800 with jot? Is the Jot a bright tilted amp?


----------



## AverageGuyNC

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Jot would be fine if you're using LCD3 or hd650. If you wanna use an hd800, I'd go for vali, Valhalla, or mjolnir.




Right now I have he400i and th900 (with balanced cable) and o2/odac. Ordered a Jot and it's about 100 miles from me now (tracking) but I can't get it. Estimated delivery is Thursday! (4 days).


----------



## MikeW

soundsgoodtome said:


> Why not the hd800 with jot? Is the Jot a bright tilted amp?


 
  
 More like the HD800 is a bright headphone and the JOT does nothing to amend it. Nothing you can't fix with Good EQ if your determined to use them together though ~ some headphones and amps just don't go great together, but once you reach a high level of performance, they can be EQ'ed quite effectively. This is true for the entire high end spectrum of gear. People spending so much money/time/effort to synergize  their gear, seriously need to read the headfi thread on how to eq your headphones.
  
 Your in for a treat AverageGuyNC, I came from the O2/Dac combo and have been quite happy with the JOT. The 02's no joke, but I prefer the musicality of this combo, I mostly upgraded for practicality reasons, my O2 was the original version and those wire's going all over the place were un-managable, I also needed a pre-amp for my JBL LSR305's, and this combo is excellent as a one box solution, robust volume control, excellent pre-amp, balanced cables to my JBL's is nice too.. The audio improvements were just icing on the cake.


----------



## lentoviolento

mikew said:


> More like the HD800 is a bright headphone and the JOT does nothing to amend it. Nothing you can't fix with Good EQ if your determined to use them together though ~ some headphones and amps just don't go great together, but once you reach a high level of performance, they can be EQ'ed quite effectively. This is true for the entire high end spectrum of gear. People spending so much money/time/effort to synergize  their gear, seriously need to read the headfi thread on how to eq your headphones.




What's best for my lcd2 in your opinion? Lyr2 with LISST or jot with balanced cable? Thx


----------



## MikeW

I've not heard the LYR2, or the LCD2, im not really qualified to offer a serious opinion. However, Jotunheim's been compared favorably to that combo (ie better) by other's in this thread.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Hopefully the Freya can help in the bright dept. I understand fully that tubes can be the make/break for the hd800 





mikew said:


> More like the HD800 is a bright headphone and the JOT does nothing to amend it. Nothing you can't fix with Good EQ if your determined to use them together though ~ some headphones and amps just don't go great together, but once you reach a high level of performance, they can be EQ'ed quite effectively. This is true for the entire high end spectrum of gear. People spending so much money/time/effort to synergize  their gear, seriously need to read the headfi thread on how to eq your headphones.
> 
> Your in for a treat AverageGuyNC, I came from the O2/Dac combo and have been quite happy with the JOT. The 02's no joke, but I prefer the musicality of this combo, I mostly upgraded for practicality reasons, my O2 was the original version and those wire's going all over the place were un-managable, I also needed a pre-amp for my JBL LSR305's, and this combo is excellent as a one box solution, robust volume control, excellent pre-amp, balanced cables to my JBL's is nice too.. The audio improvements were just icing on the cake.


----------



## AverageGuyNC

lentoviolento said:


> What's best for my lcd2 in your opinion? Lyr2 with LISST or jot with balanced cable? Thx




Have you tried Google "best amp pairing with lcd 2"? I found a lot of info. There was even a poll on here, but it was fairly old. I don't have lcd2 but want one.


----------



## earnmyturns

averageguync said:


> How good of a fit is Jot for new top 40 stuff? Rap, rock, pop, dance-electronic? What's a good amp for that?


 
 For the relatively few rock and rock-inflected jazz albums I have, I like what I hear. To remind myself, I just cued up Cracker's "Low" from their key album "Kerosene Hat." Ripped from the CD, details of my headphone setup below. Great separation between drums, voices, and electric guitars. Drums come though with authority, sharp attack, the initial dum hit really woke me up after a nice day-off lunch. Part of this is the great synergy between Jot and Ether C Flows, part the very clean mid-to-upper frequencies from the multibit Bifrost DAC.


----------



## lentoviolento

i ended ordering a lyr2 and an audio gd c 2 11 anniversary..
 i will keep which one i like the most.
 i didn't want to go balance every time i buy a can... after market cables are too expensive and i'm not able to build them myself...


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

To me the c2 amp sounds best connected via acss but mediocre through se input.


----------



## AverageGuyNC

Got my Jotunheim today. Really liking it so far. Using the onboard dac and still sounds great to my rookie ears


----------



## alota

mine is in belgium. i hope to receive this week


----------



## MarkF786

I received my Bimby (Bifrost Multibit) today and wanted to share some early impressions.  I've got it connected to my Jotunheim and was comparing the Bimby to the Jot's internal DAC.
  
 First, out of the box the Bimby feels very heavy and well built.  One slight annoyance is Schiit changed the aluminum finish on the Jotunheim, so the two devices don't entirely match; to the casual glance, they look a slightly different shade of grade.  I'll get over it.
  
 I was a little worried that after spending $600 on the Bimby, I'd find the difference between it and the Jot's internal DAC to be negligible.  When I previously compared the internal DAC to my Chord Mojo, that was the case - but thankfully, the Bimby is clearly superior.  It's hard to quantify the difference; at first, I would have said the Jot's internal DAC sounded 98% of the Bimby's performance, but in time the difference becomes more noticeable, so now the internal DAC has dropped down to 95% or less in my estimation - and I expect the Bimby to only get better as it burns-in (or even just warms up, since some owners report it sounds better after being powered for a couple days), and as my ears get more time to discern the subtle differences.
  
 To compare two two DACs, I had separate Macs connected and used Audirvana synced with the same tracks.  I could then switch between the two, though I had to slightly adjust the volume knob to match volumes as I switched.
  
 So what sounds different?  The Bimby sounds much more detailed, making nuances more noticeable on the Bimby.  At first I could hear the difference most clearly in the bass region (and also there was more authority in the bass on the Bimby, which is likely due to the improved power supply), but as I focused in on various instruments I could hear the difference across the entire frequency range.  Being a guitarist and keyboard player I know well the sound of acoustic guitar, acoustic piano, etc - and the Bimby conveys the realism much better, and exposes nuances in the timbre and articulation.  A good example is the fretboard/string buzz on a plucked upright bass, where the Bimby clearly reproduces it with more realism and detail.  And forgetting nitpicking the differences between the two, the Bimby just better conveys the magic of music better.
  
 Is it worth $600?  I think many would likely be happy with the internal DAC (which is an incredible value) or the Modi Multibit (at least from what others say, since I haven't heard it).  For me though, I wanted the Bifrost's form factor and built in power supply - and the upgradability is a bonus.  I think it'll be my end-game DAC, so with that in mind it's worth the $600.


----------



## Kenneth Tang

markf786 said:


> I received my Bimby (Bifrost Multibit) today and wanted to share some early impressions.  I've got it connected to my Jotunheim and was comparing the Bimby to the Jot's internal DAC.
> 
> First, out of the box the Bimby feels very heavy and well built.  One slight annoyance is Schiit changed the aluminum finish on the Jotunheim, so the two devices don't entirely match; to the casual glance, they look a slightly different shade of grade.  I'll get over it.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thank you so much for your report. I did have similar finding when I A/B the internal DAC to my previous DAC using ES9028 (Both are high performance Delta-Sigma DAC). I hardly find any difference when I flip input switch back and forth. I was very struggle to get a MB (Modi MB as my 1st choice). Now I am convinced. Thanks Schiit with the 15 days return scheme, even I was not happy with it, I can return it (But the round trip shipping cost for mimby is around 20% +15% restocking...ar.... only 65% back @_@.... )


----------



## MikeW

I'd urge caution with regards to the volume mismatch. even a 0.5 DB increase in volume is easily detctable, and will very much sway your opinion. I've noticed the Internal dac has lower volume then most stand alone dac's. It must not be putting out 2.0v RMS.


----------



## oldschool

alota said:


> mine is in belgium. i hope to receive this week


 
  
 Good for you! When did you order?
  
 I've placed and paid for my order in December and have been waiting since then. The distributor is not very responsive. It's getting a bit frustrating.


----------



## alota

oldschool said:


> Good for you! When did you order?
> 
> I've placed and paid for my order in December and have been waiting since then. The distributor is not very responsive. It's getting a bit frustrating.


 
 It´s the same from netherland? i´ve ordered mine 8th, this month. they answered my mails


----------



## oldschool

alota said:


> It´s the same from netherland? i´ve ordered mine 8th, this month. they answered my mails


 
  
 Yes, Sonority Audio in Netherlands. Their CS rep is called Melinda. I would imagine they would treat with priority someone who's placed a EUR 1000 order for Bifrost and Jotun some 2-3 months ago, but alas.
  
 Bifrost shipped back in Dec. Asked about status of my Jot yesterday for the 3rd time - no reply as of yet.


----------



## alota

oldschool said:


> Yes, Sonority Audio in Netherlands. Their CS rep is called Melinda. I would imagine they would treat with priority someone who's placed a EUR 1000 order for Bifrost and Jotun some 2-3 months ago, but alas.
> 
> Bifrost shipped back in Dec. Asked about status of my Jot yesterday for the 3rd time - no reply as of yet.


 
 me too, i spoke with Melinda. really strange becaus she wrote to me a date for availability of Jot and i ordered conforming the day. after i waited 10 days for shipment.
 if you paid with paypal, at least you´re guaranteed


----------



## lentoviolento

Next time give proaudio italia a chance.


----------



## MarkF786

mikew said:


> I'd urge caution with regards to the volume mismatch. even a 0.5 DB increase in volume is easily detctable, and will very much sway your opinion. I've noticed the Internal dac has lower volume then most stand alone dac's. It must not be putting out 2.0v RMS.


 

 By manually adjusting the volume when switching between DACs, it adds a random variable to the volume.  Getting them to exactly match in volume on any given comparison was unlikely, so which DAC was slightly louder changed each time.
  
 No matter which DAC was louder or softer, the difference between the two in quality was quite audible.


----------



## dr cornelius

Nice review here: http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/schiit-audio-jotunheim-headphone-amppreamp/


----------



## Malinwa001

lentoviolento said:


> Next time give proaudio italia a chance.


 
  
 Would love to, but there price is higher.
 I can't check availability...


----------



## lentoviolento

malinwa001 said:


> Would love to, but there price is higher.
> I can't check availability...



Impossibile.. Prices are the same of schiit europe.. For the rest just send an email...


----------



## Mikko Peltonen

lentoviolento said:


> Impossibile.. Prices are the same of schiit europe.. For the rest just send an email...


 
  
 Their price list shows Jotunheim with the DAC at 569 €. Mine was 529 € from the Netherlands, which is on the way BTW! Shipped on Monday, hopefully here by Friday.


----------



## XERO1

I just joined the Jot Club! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 To say I'm impressed would the understatement of the year.  I'm actually a little shocked at how incredibly amazing this amp sounds!
  
 I had been using a Magni 2 Uber, and an Asgard 2 before that.  I actually preferred the Magni 2U over the Asgard 2.  While the Asgard 2 had a slightly bigger soundstage, it sounded overly soft and defuse to me when directly compared to the Magni 2U.
  
 The Jotunheim blows them both out of the water!  It's not even close.  You get the best of both worlds.  A huge soundstage with crystal clear imaging and a perfectly neutral (and natural) sound signature.  Plus, it runs as cool as a _slightly_-warm cucumber. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It completely transformed my Beyer T90's.  They now sound like mini HD 800's.  And I haven't even come close to hearing it at its best yet.  Reference quality components (headphone, balanced DAC, balanced headphone cable, XLR cables, etc.) will all take the Jot to even higher levels of performance!
  
 Jason has raised the price/performance bar so high with the Jotunheim that I don't think it will be bettered for a _*very*_ long time.
  
 In a lot of ways, the Jotenheim reminds me of the Focal Utopia.  They both look and sound amazing and are both at the top of their respective categories, but the Jot costs _*1/10th*_ the price of the Utopia!  It doesn't get much better than that!


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Calm down there squirrelly, you're sounding like a hype monster atm. Let the new gear sink in and take the new gear effect away. 

Although I must say I'm quite excited as mine waits for my pickup. However I have to remind myself I've been around the block a few times and heard some good stuff so level down the expectations on a $400 amp... But then there's all this hype I'm hoping is true. I'll know soon...very soon.


----------



## XERO1

soundsgoodtome said:


> Calm down there squirrelly, you're sounding like a hype monster atm. Let the new gear sink in and take the new gear effect away.
> 
> Although I must say I'm quite excited as mine waits for my pickup. However I have to remind myself I've been around the block a few times and heard some good stuff so level down the expectations on a $400 amp... But then there's all this hype I'm hoping is true. I'll know soon...very soon.


 

 ​I hear you.  I've been around the block as well.  But this is one of those ultra-rare cases where the hype is truly justified.
  
 Of course there are better amps out there, but they all cost multiples of the Jot's price.
  
 To me, what makes the Jot so special is the amount of performance you get for the price.  I seriously doubt there is a better value out there right now.


----------



## alota

mikko peltonen said:


> Their price list shows Jotunheim with the DAC at 569 €. Mine was 529 € from the Netherlands, which is on the way BTW! Shipped on Monday, hopefully here by Friday.


 
 are you sure? i paid 549€ plus shipping(around 20€)


----------



## alota

xero1 said:


> I just joined the Jot Club!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 you bought with internal dac?


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Fingers crossed the hype is backed by performance! Burn-in on them is..? I'll have mine plugged tonight and hopefully climbing to 100hrs by Sunday. XERO1


----------



## XERO1

alota said:


> you bought with internal dac?


 

 ​Nope.  Amp only.  I'm using the good (but not great) Modi 2U, and my music still sounds amazing.
  
 I'll be upgrading to the Modi MB next, which will take things to an even higher level. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




​ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The Jotunheim makes a fantastic system centerpiece because it's so transparent.  It's resolution ceiling is so high that it will probably exceed that of whatever source it is connected to, except for maybe some of the super-exotic ultra-expensive DACs that are out there.
  
 One way I would describe it is that the Jotunheim is ruthlessly revealing without being ruthless, if that makes any sense.


----------



## Vigrith

oldschool said:


> Yes, Sonority Audio in Netherlands. Their CS rep is called Melinda. I would imagine they would treat with priority someone who's placed a EUR 1000 order for Bifrost and Jotun some 2-3 months ago, but alas.
> 
> Bifrost shipped back in Dec. Asked about status of my Jot yesterday for the 3rd time - no reply as of yet.


 
  
 That is VERY strange - I've placed like at least 5 or 6 orders with Sonority already buying Schiit off of them and never has that happened. I've actually bought a second Jotunheim for my bedroom a couple days ago and it already shipped on Monday, it's in Spain as we speak and will be arriving at my home tomorrow (same for you @alota a não ser que viva muito para o Norte, é capaz de ser só na Sexta nesse caso!).
  
 Melinda is very helpful, I've always had stuff shipped to me timely and gotten reasonable responses very quickly - I even had a couple things added to this Jotunheim order that I forgot to check out the first time around (few cables and tubes) and they added it and invoiced me for them on a Sunday so that everything shipped together on Monday. Wonder if there's something else going on, maybe your messages are ending up in some spam filter of some sort for whatever reason and your order got buried in? Maybe try giving them a call or using a different email, not trying to play devil's advocate here of course just saying that by my personal experience (as well as some other friends' who buy from them) that sounds very, very odd.


----------



## XERO1

soundsgoodtome said:


> Fingers crossed the hype is backed by performance! Burn-in on them is..? I'll have mine plugged tonight and hopefully climbing to 100hrs by Sunday. @XERO1


 

 ​I'd say 24-48 hours of continuous playback using only well-recorded music should do it.  Just set the volume to the loudest level you would comfortably listen at with your preferred headphones and let it cook for a couple days.  That should get you >90% of it being fully broken-in.
  
 I don't recommend using pink noise (and _never_ use white noise) for break-in.  It can potentially lead to the overheating and possible damage of your headphone's voicecoils if pink noise is used for a long period of time at high SPL's.
  
 OT:  I checked out your profile and noticed that you sold your Sony MDR-Z1R. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







  May I ask why?  I thought they were supposed to be da schizzle.


----------



## alota

xero1 said:


> ​Nope.  Amp only.  I'm using the good (but not great) Modi 2U, and my music still sounds amazing.
> 
> I'll be upgrading to the Modi MB next, which will take things to an even higher level.
> 
> ...


 
  
 My objective is a good integrated amp/dac so i bought the jot. my other is x-duoo. i went from a past with a lot of headphones, source, and amplifiers. i had a balanced beta-22 who weighed 35 Kg.the audiophile and stressful time is over. now i just want to enjoy music without frills and snake oil
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





vigrith said:


> That is VERY strange - I've placed like at least 5 or 6 orders with Sonority already buying Schiit off of them and never has that happened. I've actually bought a second Jotunheim for my bedroom a couple days ago and it already shipped on Monday, it's in Spain as we speak and will be arriving at my home tomorrow (same for you @alota a não ser que viva muito para o Norte, é capaz de ser só na Sexta nesse caso!).
> 
> Melinda is very helpful, I've always had stuff shipped to me timely and gotten reasonable responses very quickly - I even had a couple things added to this Jotunheim order that I forgot to check out the first time around (few cables and tubes) and they added it and invoiced me for them on a Sunday so that everything shipped together on Monday. Wonder if there's something else going on, maybe your messages are ending up in some spam filter of some sort for whatever reason and your order got buried in? Maybe try giving them a call or using a different email, not trying to play devil's advocate here of course just saying that by my personal experience (as well as some other friends' who buy from them) that sounds very, very odd.


 
 you´re portugues is perfect
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.i´m italian and i met my portuguese wife in Andalusia


----------



## lentoviolento

http://www.schiit-europe.com/index.php/producten/amps/jotunheim-configurable-balanced-desktop-headamp-preamp-none-module.html
  
 price is the same that in proaudio... how could you pay that price with the dac?? plus shipping costs.... mah...


----------



## oldschool

vigrith said:


> That is VERY strange - I've placed like at least 5 or 6 orders with Sonority already buying Schiit off of them and never has that happened. I've actually bought a second Jotunheim for my bedroom a couple days ago and it already shipped on Monday, it's in Spain as we speak and will be arriving at my home tomorrow (same for you @alota a não ser que viva muito para o Norte, é capaz de ser só na Sexta nesse caso!).
> 
> Melinda is very helpful, I've always had stuff shipped to me timely and gotten reasonable responses very quickly - I even had a couple things added to this Jotunheim order that I forgot to check out the first time around (few cables and tubes) and they added it and invoiced me for them on a Sunday so that everything shipped together on Monday. Wonder if there's something else going on, maybe your messages are ending up in some spam filter of some sort for whatever reason and your order got buried in? Maybe try giving them a call or using a different email, not trying to play devil's advocate here of course just saying that by my personal experience (as well as some other friends' who buy from them) that sounds very, very odd.


 
  
 Got a reply from them later today - my order got delayed apparently. Hopefully already shipped, if not probably tomorrow. Still, I've waited months...


----------



## XERO1

alota said:


> My objective is a good integrated amp/dac so i bought the jot. my other is x-duoo. i went from a past with a lot of headphones, source, and amplifiers. i had a balanced beta-22 who weighed 35 Kg.the audiophile and stressful time is over. now i just want to enjoy music without frills and snake oil


 
 Then I think the Jotinheim is perfect for you.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Well recorded music for burn in... Didn't know electrical components were picky of recording quality, specially amps. Lol 





xero1 said:


> ​I'd say 24-48 hours of continuous playback using only well-recorded music should do it.  Just set the volume to the loudest level you would
> 
> OT:  I checked out your profile and noticed that you sold your Sony MDR-Z1R. :eek:    May I ask why?  I thought they were supposed to be da schizzle.




The MDR-Z1R is a phenomenal headphone and when I paired it with a Chord Hugo it was brilliant. I was one of the earliest known owners, bought it in November overseas and listened for 2-3months straight exclusively. During that time i was living temporarily and my openback were packed away. Now my house is finish, open backs rule again! By no means of me selling it was an indicator it wasn't good.


----------



## MikeW

xero1 said:


> I just joined the Jot Club!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 The jot is quite good, but a huge soundstage it does not have. Not a bad or good thing, just saying. It's soundstage is rather collapsed, and in your face. That's not just my opinion either.


----------



## MikeW

lentoviolento said:


> i ended ordering a lyr2 and an audio gd c 2 11 anniversary..
> i will keep which one i like the most.
> i didn't want to go balance every time i buy a can... after market cables are too expensive and i'm not able to build them myself...


 

 Seriously? a 10$ radio shack special soldering iron, and 5$ helping hands, an hour of watching a Youtube howto solder video, and a 5$ neutrik connector will balance 99% of headphones on the market. No expensive cables, or skill required. Re-terminating a cable is trivially easy.
  
 This is literally, all you need.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Unless you bought an AKG that uses 3 wires...





mikew said:


> Seriously? a 10$ radio shack special soldering iron, and 5$ helping hands, an hour of watching a Youtube howto solder video, and a 5$ neutrik connector will balance 99% of headphones on the market. No expensive cables, or skill required. Re-terminating a cable is trivially easy.


----------



## MikeW

In that case you'll need 4 feet of 1.29 a foot Mogami 2534, 2 feet of heatshrink tubing, and if you want to get fancy, 4 feet of cloth wire loom. So add another ~10$ or so, and a forum post or two with a detailed guide and pictures of someone else who's already done it.


----------



## earnmyturns

xero1 said:


> ​I hear you.  I've been around the block as well.  But this is one of those ultra-rare cases where the hype is truly justified.
> 
> Of course there are better amps out there, but they all cost multiples of the Jot's price.
> 
> To me, what makes the Jot so special is the amount of performance you get for the price.  I seriously doubt there is a better value out there right now.


 
 The Bimby>Jot combo I've been using since the Jot came out is so good with my Ether C Flows that I can't get really excited about possible upgrades, even though my comparison is my many times more expensive 2-channel system (see my sig for details). I favor a neutral, tight reproduction that gets as close to live acoustic music in a low reverb venue as practical. I put together my 2-channel system to fit that goal, and I'm amazed that the much more modest Jot-based headphone system is not straying so much from that idea.
  
 I got my Jot while I was getting tired of waiting for a delayed Liquid Carbon 2.0, and while the LC 2.0 is in some ways delightful (but twice as expensive), it never managed to displace the Jot.


----------



## earnmyturns

mikew said:


> The jot is quite good, but a huge soundstage it does not have. Not a bad or good thing, just saying. It's soundstage is rather collapsed, and in your face. That's not just my opinion either.


 
 If you fix the DAC and the headphones, how much can the amp affect soundstage? I can understand how moving to very different sources and transducers will change soundstage, heck, I listen to my music on a nice 2-channel system (see sig below) whenever possible in part because of the superior soundstage, but I cant think of technical reasons that would make a very low distortion amp (the proverbial "wire with gain")  differ from another one in soundstage, which is all about teeny differences in arrival time of different sounds.


----------



## alota

I saw the cavalli amplifier but la ke you say, twice of the price and no dac.
Honestly i'm tired to spend much more money for nothing


----------



## earnmyturns

alota said:


> I saw the cavalli amplifier but la ke you say, twice of the price and no dac.
> Honestly i'm tired to spend much more money for nothing


 
 My Jot does not have the optional DAC, I'm all-multibit at home  I ordered the LC 2.0 when it was the only good quality, reasonably priced and relatively small solid-state balanced amp, but while I was waiting for it, the Jot came out and I couldn't resist. I can understand a preference for the LC's somewhat warmer tone, especially for owners of very bright headphones, but for me the Job matches really well what I want from my Ether C Flows. I've been using the LC 2.0 occasionally at work, but recently I got a QP1R DAP, which is just more convenient and way better than I expected to the point that it's not worth my while to add the LC 2.0 to the chain.


----------



## alota

for now i use with internal dac. for multibit will see...


----------



## jimmers

mikew said:


> In that case you'll need 4 feet of 1.29 a foot Mogami 2534, 2 feet of heatshrink tubing, and if you want to get fancy, 4 feet of cloth wire loom. So add another ~10$ or so, and a forum post or two with a detailed guide and pictures of someone else who's already done it.


 
 And remove the 3 pin mini xlr socket from the earphone and replace it with a 4 pin mini xlr socket ?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

earnmyturns said:


> My Jot does not have the optional DAC, I'm all-multibit at home  I ordered the LC 2.0 when it was the only good quality, reasonably priced and relatively small solid-state balanced amp, but while I was waiting for it, the Jot came out and I couldn't resist. I can understand a preference for the LC's somewhat warmer tone, especially for owners of very bright headphones, but for me the Job matches really well what I want from my Ether C Flows. I've been using the LC 2.0 occasionally at work, but recently I got a QP1R DAP, which is just more convenient and way better than I expected to the point that it's not worth my while to add the LC 2.0 to the chain.




If you want warmth, use tubes. Elementary, my dear Watson! Also, I hear Cavalli amps have been known to show signs of shoddy workmanship if you open them up, though I haven't confirmed this myself.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

To be fair a lot of high end headphone users don't have the luxury of a speaker system. I've been listening to my Jot since I've plugged them in last night and while relatively new I can tell the amp is well tuned but something about the cohesiveness, imaging, instrumental separation (to a degree), and instrument placement isn't quite there (yet?). I'm hoping 100-200hrs will remedy this. I will also try the he560 this weekend and may bring the akg home. 

Balanced vs SE, what are owners thoughts on differences? My AKG and Sony SA3000 are SE only.


----------



## Vigrith

alota said:


> you´re portugues is perfect
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Haha I appreciate that, I'm actually really rusty and losing it a bit but I am Portuguese, due to my work and the fact that my wife is not from here I barely speak/write it at all nowadays. My wife actually has family in Italy so we visit often, it is one of my favourite places, your country is very beautiful!
  
 I received my Jotunheim today - I live near Lisboa though so from Mafra (where the GLS international department is located) to here is only a couple hours at most, by 2pm I already had it on hand. Have you received yours? If not then I'm sure you'll get it tomorrow. Hope you enjoy it man.
  
 Salve!


----------



## Mikko Peltonen

Started making cables for my HE-400i headphones. Partially finished (awaiting the XLR plug) XLR to 1/4" adapter in the picture.


----------



## alota

vigrith said:


> Haha I appreciate that, I'm actually really rusty and losing it a bit but I am Portuguese, due to my work and the fact that my wife is not from here I barely speak/write it at all nowadays. My wife actually has family in Italy so we visit often, it is one of my favourite places, your country is very beautiful!
> 
> I received my Jotunheim today - I live near Lisboa though so from Mafra (where the GLS international department is located) to here is only a couple hours at most, by 2pm I already had it on hand. Have you received yours? If not then I'm sure you'll get it tomorrow. Hope you enjoy it man.
> 
> Salve!


 
 send pm


----------



## wasupdog

soundsgoodtome said:


> To be fair a lot of high end headphone users don't have the luxury of a speaker system. I've been listening to my Jot since I've plugged them in last night and while relatively new I can tell the amp is well tuned but something about the cohesiveness, imaging, instrumental separation (to a degree), and instrument placement isn't quite there (yet?). I'm hoping 100-200hrs will remedy this. I will also try the he560 this weekend and may bring the akg home.
> 
> Balanced vs SE, what are owners thoughts on differences? My AKG and Sony SA3000 are SE only.


 
  
 it likely sounds that way because you're downgrading from a rag   an HD650 balances out the brightness and in-your-faceness of the jot.  the balanced cable on the HD650 will give you the same sound but just slightly better all around.


----------



## alota

Today i'm happy like a kid
Really nice

What a piece of schiit...


----------



## Mikko Peltonen

Just came home with this one


----------



## alota

mikko peltonen said:


> Just came home with this one


 
 We have the same desk?LOL


----------



## audioBenj

Schiit does make some great audio DACs/AMPs but I don't find the much higher priced Jotunheim to be too expensive. I mean, the Magni 2 is already pretty good, and it costs far less than this one. Can someone justify buying this much more expensive product than an affordable one like the Magni 2?


----------



## MWSVette

audiobenj said:


> Schiit does make some great audio DACs/AMPs but I don't find the much higher priced Jotunheim to be too expensive. I mean, the Magni 2 is already pretty good, and it costs far less than this one. Can someone justify buying this much more expensive product than an affordable one like the Magni 2?


 
 Its balanced for starters...


----------



## Vigrith

audiobenj said:


> Schiit does make some great audio DACs/AMPs but I don't find the much higher priced Jotunheim to be too expensive. I mean, the Magni 2 is already pretty good, and it costs far less than this one. Can someone justify buying this much more expensive product than an affordable one like the Magni 2?


 
  
 Do you want a better product? Pay the extra money. Are you going to be satisfied with the Magni 2? Buy the Magni 2. No one has to justify your purchases, they are your own, if you want to learn about the subject there are plenty of reviews around (some of which compare it to the Magni 2) - there is so much information out on this amplifier, if after you read up an adequate amount and educate yourself and feel like you cannot justify the purchase afterwards then go with the Magni.


----------



## XERO1

audiobenj said:


> Schiit does make some great audio DACs/AMPs but I don't find the much higher priced Jotunheim to be too expensive. I mean, the Magni 2 is already pretty good, and it costs far less than this one. Can someone justify buying this much more expensive product than an affordable one like the Magni 2?


 

 ​Even with the entry-level Modi 2U as my source, the SQ difference between the Magni 2U and the Jotunheim is huge.
  
 The Jot really does allow you to hear what your source and your headphones are truly capable of.
  
 Schiit could have easily charged another $100-200 more for it and it would still be considered a great value.  And the fact that they didn't makes me have even more respect for them.
  
 The Jot truly is an amazing piece of Schiit! (Schiit jokes never get old! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## alota

Connected the Jot, i´m impressed with installation of drivers or rather the non-installation.
 My system is windows 10.the device has apparead immediately, as well as in tidal
 Good work Schiit


----------



## AverageGuyNC

​The Jot is one of the least expensive balanced amps out there, let alone form a well respected company! Then they gave it enough power to push basically any headphone, while keeping the impedance output low along with very little distortion to a level it can also push sensitive headphones or iem just as well. I know I'm sorta repeating what Schiit says on their website, but its true.
  
 Some people come on and ask if this or that amp will work well for a certain headphone. Well, In the case of the Jotunheim, the answer 99% of the time will be YES! especially if you can tweak it some with an EQ. Where the Magni is just "good enough" in most cases, and bad in others.


----------



## junapalm

Hey guys, has anyone tried the with the Oppo PM-2? Would be interested how they pair...


----------



## Sharkhunter

Hi, I am a new Jotunheim owner,. I had Magni 2 U earlier. I have connected Audio Engine A5+ to jotunheim. Shouldnt the Speakers mute when i plug in the Headphones in the balanced port. Is that how it is supposed to be. I remember my speakers would be muted if i plug in headphones and play music on headphones alone.


----------



## sovereign

mwhals said:


> The Schiit balanced amps are that way, because the balanced XLR does not have the wiring to mute the preouts when headphones are attached. The Mjolnir 2 is the same way. Yes, they could have designed in a manual switch.
> 
> There are three ways to handle it:
> 
> ...


----------



## Sharkhunter

sovereign said:


>


 
 Yes. I ended up turning off the speakers. Thank you.


----------



## Mikko Peltonen

Finished the balanced cable for my headphones and now I'm trying to figure out if it sounds any different than SE.


----------



## lentoviolento

mikko peltonen said:


> Finished the balanced cable for my headphones and now I'm trying to figure out if it sounds any different than SE.





Let us know, to me they were equal


----------



## MWSVette

mikko peltonen said:


> Finished the balanced cable for my headphones and now I'm trying to figure out if it sounds any different than SE.


 
 Make sure you match the SPL.  Balanced provides way more power to the headphones...


----------



## Nick-s-f

audiobenj said:


> Schiit does make some great audio DACs/AMPs but I don't find the much higher priced Jotunheim to be too expensive. I mean, the Magni 2 is already pretty good, and it costs far less than this one. Can someone justify buying this much more expensive product than an affordable one like the Magni 2?




The Jotunheim DAC module could be upgraded in the future(there is always that possibility). That, and the fact its got a balanced input and huge power output makes it worthwhile and future proof.


----------



## NPWS

still considering purchase between this amp and cavalli audio LC 2.0


----------



## MWSVette

npws said:


> still considering purchase between this amp and cavalli audio LC 2.0


 
 Both are good amps.  Either one is a fine choice...


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

I would recommend the LC only for high resolution headphones like hd800, k812, etc. Imo from memory the LC has slightly more instrument separation and better layering/imaging.

Otherwise if you're midfi level on headphones the Jot is more than plenty of an amp and provides quite the sound for the price.

The Jot with hd800 is good. With the emu teak, amazing. I have heard the hd800 scale to amazing levels beyond what the jot can provide - given your dac is up to task.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Jotunheim is much more powerful and more linear. LC has a generally worse build quality (Cavalli's innards have never impressed me) but is more forgiving. However, it would be cheaper to simply get a Lyr.


----------



## Ojisan

Adding myself as another new and happy Jot(w/ DAC) owner here (2.5 weeks and counting), and new to this forum.
  
 Over the last few years, I went from Sony PHA-1 to Mojo (only a short time, it was unexciting) with Crack, and now to Jot (either Jot out or pre-out to Crack). Very happy with combo and I'm excited again with my music (classical, fingerstyle guitar, rock/jpop). Works well with my balanced HD600 and AD2000x.
  
 I still need to figure out if I'm liking the AKM DAC implementation or otherwise, but it definitely got me liking this Schiit.


----------



## earnmyturns

npws said:


> still considering purchase between this amp and cavalli audio LC 2.0


 
 Own both. The LC 2.0 sounds warmer and is really charming with voices and strings, but with my MrSpeakers Ether C Flows, the music I listen to (jazz, world, classical), I overall prefer the Jot for its neutrality and handling of transients.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

earnmyturns said:


> Own both. The LC 2.0 sounds warmer and is really charming with voices and strings, but with my MrSpeakers Ether C Flows, the music I listen to (jazz, world, classical), I overall prefer the Jot for its neutrality and handling of transients.


 


 I haven't had the LC (1.0) for awhile now but from what I remember it was able to project microdetails very well. To me the Jot doesn't seem to do this well, any insight on this?


----------



## earnmyturns

soundsgoodtome said:


> I haven't had the LC (1.0) for awhile now but from what I remember it was able to project microdetails very well. To me the Jot doesn't seem to do this well, any insight on this?


 
 Maybe specific pairings? Which DAC and headphones did you use? With the Bimby and C Flows, I hear a lot of detail with both amps. The LC's warmer tone makes jazz double bass stand out maybe a bit too much relative to the higher frequencies, from cymbals for instance. With the Jot, percussion is very clear, with the LC a tad more veiled. Two nice amps, I could be happy with either, but in the comparison the Jot wins for me.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

earnmyturns said:


> Maybe specific pairings? Which DAC and headphones did you use? With the Bimby and C Flows, I hear a lot of detail with both amps. The LC's warmer tone makes jazz double bass stand out maybe a bit too much relative to the higher frequencies, from cymbals for instance. With the Jot, percussion is very clear, with the LC a tad more veiled. Two nice amps, I could be happy with either, but in the comparison the Jot wins for me.


 

 Maybe I need to hear the Jot without the Freya acting as a preamp.. My Dac is the Holo Spring Level 3 and Schiit Freya as a pre then Jot then HD800.


----------



## earnmyturns

soundsgoodtome said:


> Maybe I need to hear the Jot without the Freya acting as a preamp.. My Dac is the Holo Spring Level 3 and Schiit Freya as a pre then Jot then HD800.


 
 Wow, that's a serious setup upstream from the headphone amp. I've read of other HD800 owners liking Cavalli amps, maybe because the warmth of the Cavalli amp complements the alleged brightness of the HD800.


----------



## 2chinzz

npws said:


> still considering purchase between this amp and cavalli audio LC 2.0


 
 I can't speak for sound quality since I have never heard a LC but I would like to point out that the LC is double the price. 
 Also, the jot is the more versatile amp as it can also be used as a preamp. I have a ZDS as well but am astounded by the clarity provided by the jot.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

earnmyturns said:


> Wow, that's a serious setup upstream from the headphone amp. I've read of other HD800 owners liking Cavalli amps, maybe because the warmth of the Cavalli amp complements the alleged brightness of the HD800.


 

 It sounds incredible with the EMU Teak (Denon D5k spinoff - homage - clone -etc) specially balanced. I will be taking the HE560 out of storage, finally, and giving that a go with the Jot. The HE560 is less amp sensitive than the HD800 with only a touch more musicality in trade for a touch less of clarity -- at least my modified one.

 I would like to say again that as a balanced unit, preamp (balanced and SE), and the amount of power the *Jot puts out it is an incredible value*. By no way am is my returning the item an indication that it is bad, it's just not what I need with the every picky HD800.


----------



## XERO1

2chinzz said:


> I can't speak for sound quality since I have never heard a LC but I would like to point out that the LC is double the price.


 
  
 While that may be true, the Jot is sold direct to consumer, the LC is not.
  
 So if the Jot were to be sold through a conventional dealer, it would sell for roughly the same price as the LC.
  
 I consider them evenly matched, even though the LC does cost more.


----------



## KG Jag

xero1 said:


> 2chinzz said:
> 
> 
> > I can't speak for sound quality since I have never heard a LC but I would like to point out that the LC is double the price.
> ...


 

 I bought both my LC's and the Jot direct from Cavalli/Schiit.  While Cavalli may have a limited group of dealers, much if not the vast majority of sales are direct.  Schiit is an Amazon third party seller of its own products.  Not seeing much difference here.
  
 The bigger differences seem to be related to company size, size of product line and core market segments.


----------



## Letmebefrank

If you sell at dealers, you have to make the price basically double to cover their overhead and make a profit for yourself. You can't then sell it on your own website for significantly less or nobody will buy from the dealer. 

Amazon is not a traditional dealer, the overhead there is nowhere near the same as a smaller dealer and people are willing to pay the extra markup for the convenience. Schiit marks up their items accordingly to cover returns and fees.


----------



## NPWS

mwsvette said:


> npws said:
> 
> 
> > still considering purchase between this amp and cavalli audio LC 2.0
> ...


 
 thanks!
  


soundsgoodtome said:


> I would recommend the LC only for high resolution headphones like hd800, k812, etc. Imo from memory the LC has slightly more instrument separation and better layering/imaging.
> 
> Otherwise if you're midfi level on headphones the Jot is more than plenty of an amp and provides quite the sound for the price.
> 
> The Jot with hd800 is good. With the emu teak, amazing. I have heard the hd800 scale to amazing levels beyond what the jot can provide - given your dac is up to task.


 
 thanks! I'm using oppo pm1 for now, didn't like hd800, much prefer the hd650.
  


earnmyturns said:


> npws said:
> 
> 
> > still considering purchase between this amp and cavalli audio LC 2.0
> ...


 
 thanks! really like the warmish sounding, but recently I prefer neutral sounding, so JOT will be my choice maybe 
  


2chinzz said:


> npws said:
> 
> 
> > still considering purchase between this amp and cavalli audio LC 2.0
> ...


 
 how's the akm DAC in JOT? is it good? compare with mojo? as now I use mojo as DAC.
 thanks


----------



## KG Jag

letmebefrank said:


> If you sell at dealers, you have to make the price basically double to cover their overhead and make a profit for yourself. You can't then sell it on your own website for significantly less or nobody will buy from the dealer.
> 
> Amazon is not a traditional dealer, the overhead there is nowhere near the same as a smaller dealer and people are willing to pay the extra markup for the convenience. Schiit marks up their items accordingly to cover returns and fees.


 
  
 Except that the Cavalli site lists only 4 dealers, 2 of whom are outside the USA/Americas.
  
 One of the two USA dealers doesn't appear to have any product.


----------



## KG Jag

BTW: Mr Speakers sells Schiit gear.  See:
  
 https://mrspeakers.com/product-category/2-electronics/
  
 In the past they have also sold one or maybe two Cavalli amps at the same time.  They don't currently.


----------



## chowmein83

npws said:


> still considering purchase between this amp and cavalli audio LC 2.0


 

 Perhaps this is a bit late, but I wanted to post the comparison I made between the two earlier in one of the Cavalli LC threads.
  
 Keep in mind that this is comparing the LC 1.0 to the Jot, but I don't think there's that many differences between the LC 1.0 and 2.0:
  


chowmein83 said:


> First off, I have owned both the LC and the Jot. I have extensively compared them on my own headphones and other audio gear (see my profile for more details). And of course, I volume-matched the amps when I did my comparisons.
> 
> I have to say I disagree with @Clemmaster here - except for the Jot being bright at times part. The Jot can be sometimes bright, but I consider it to be just slightly brighter than neutral. The LC, on the other hand, is what I would consider to be slightly warmer than neutral. Maybe to some people this difference is quite big, but personally I don't think this to be the case - the tonality of both of these amps to me is a lot more similar than you might think.
> 
> ...


----------



## NPWS

chowmein83 said:


> npws said:
> 
> 
> > still considering purchase between this amp and cavalli audio LC 2.0
> ...


 
 this!! what I really need!
 thanks man.
 considering on my low budget, maybe I go for JOT, rather than LC 2.


----------



## DavidA

@NPWS, I think the choice of amp might also depend on the headphones that you have, when I tried my HD800, HD700 and T1 on a Jot it was 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





​ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




​.  The Liquid Carbon pairs much better with these headphones, but they are even better with a tube amp, BH Crack, Elise, Liquid Glass or MicroZOTL2.  But for the HD650 and LCD2.2 I can see the Jot as being a great amp for them.
  
@chowmein83, agree with your impressions but to me the differences can be more noticeable with different headphones.


----------



## joeexp

npws said:


> this!! what I really need!
> thanks man.
> considering on my low budget, maybe I go for JOT, rather than LC 2.


 

 Perhaps another important reason for some --  you can use the JOT as a pre-amp for active monitors.
 The Jot has balanced and SE outputs.


----------



## NPWS

davida said:


> @NPWS, I think the choice of amp might also depend on the headphones that you have, when I tried my HD800, HD700 and T1 on a Jot it was
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I use OPPO PM1 for now. I had hd650, but sold it recently, to buy an amp 


joeexp said:


> Perhaps another important reason for some --  you can use the JOT as a pre-amp for active monitors.
> The Jot has balanced and SE outputs.


 
 yes, thank you.


----------



## slex

No news about the vanilla Jot and what can be intergrated beside dac and phono? How about turning it into hybrid tube with that space?


----------



## 2chinzz

slex said:


> No news about the vanilla Jot and what can be intergrated beside dac and phono? How about turning it into hybrid tube with that space?


 
 The odds of that happening are very unlikely due to lack of airflow in that small space. I guess if your willing to have it stick out from the back end it would make sense.


----------



## Mr Rick

slex said:


> No news about the vanilla Jot and what can be intergrated beside dac and phono? How about turning it into hybrid tube with that space?


 
  
 I'd be happy if they added another line input module.


----------



## oldschool

Joti in the house.
  
 Some quality issues there though - missing chassis markings for the SE input and for low gain. One switch is also shorter than the other and they don't align perfectly. I think I can live with that but kind of disappointing.
  
 Sounds good otherwise!


----------



## MWSVette

mr rick said:


> I'd be happy if they added another line input module.


 

 Me too.  That would be a cheap and easy additional option for the Jot...


----------



## chowmein83

davida said:


> @NPWS, I think the choice of amp might also depend on the headphones that you have, when I tried my HD800, HD700 and T1 on a Jot it was
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
@DavidA which differences are you specifically referring to? I think I may be hearing the same differences as you are, it's just that now I tend to understate these differences rather than potentially overstating them.


----------



## DavidA

chowmein83 said:


> @DavidA which differences are you specifically referring to? I think I may be hearing the same differences as you are, it's just that now I tend to understate these differences rather than potentially overstating them.


 
 mainly the brightness of the Jot and the sound stage differences between the Jot and LC.  Only reason I say that the brightness differences are not that subtle is every one that I know who compared the Jot and LC its the first thing they notice on the HD800 or T1, the same goes for the sound stage where the LC has much better positional audio than the Jot.  I wouldn't call these huge or life altering but I also wouldn't call it subtle either.


----------



## earnmyturns

davida said:


> mainly the brightness of the Jot and the sound stage differences between the Jot and LC.  Only reason I say that the brightness differences are not that subtle is every one that I know who compared the Jot and LC its the first thing they notice on the HD800 or T1, the same goes for the sound stage where the LC has much better positional audio than the Jot.  I wouldn't call these huge or life altering but I also wouldn't call it subtle either.


 
 With my Ether C Flows, the Jot doesn't sound bright, it's the LC that sounds warm, at least relative to my 2-channel system (see my sig for details). As for sound stage, I don't hear much of a difference between the Jot and the LC. I'm wondering if sound stage perception differences might not be also a result of headphone/amp (mis)match.


----------



## Ggroch

I see from the Head-fi Deals thread that the KORG USB DSD-AC-100 desktop DAC with balanced outputs is on sale through Amazon 3rd Party seller for $150. 
  
 DSD capable, *MULTIBIT CS4398 chip*...USB only.   Looks like a choice to consider if you want a cheap DAC with balanced outs for your Joty and only need USB sources.  
  
 The included Audiogate 4 software provides the option of converting files to DSD on the fly.  Some think that is a good thing.  
  
  
  
*NOTE: I am updating this post* because I was confused by Korg's product page. It describes the DSD-AC-100 as single bit because of course, All DSD is single bit...but the DAC inside is a top of the line Multi-bit CS4398 chip.   So, $150 for a Mulit-bit DAC is pretty good. 
  
 Review describing the chipset in the AC-100: http://www.audiostream.com/content/korg-audiogate-ds-dac-100-high-resolution-audio-playback-system#E8hcV5mkAqeD3TpT.97
  
 Product sheet on the CS 4398 DAC chip:  http://alsa-project.org/~james/datasheets/www.cirrus.com/en/pubs/proDatasheet/CS4398-2.pdf


----------



## 2chinzz

@Ggroch wouldn't it just be more convenient to buy the dac module? I think it's only another 100 dollars.


----------



## Ggroch

2chinzz said:


>


 
  You're right. the internal DAC option is cheaper, prolly the best choice for most.  The Korg would give you DSD playback, and it a good option if you have a Jot already with no DAC or the phono option.


----------



## 2chinzz

ggroch said:


> You're right. the internal DAC option is cheaper, prolly the best choice for most.  The Korg would give you DSD playback, and it a good option if you have a Jot already with no DAC or the phono option.


 
 Yeah i forgot the module doesn't do DSD playback.


----------



## Kenneth Tang

ggroch said:


> I see from the Head-fi Deals thread that the KORG USB DSD-AC-100 desktop DAC with balanced outputs is on sale through Amazon 3rd Party seller for $150.
> 
> DSD capable, *MULTIBIT CS4398 chip*...USB only.   Looks like a choice to consider if you want a cheap DAC with balanced outs for your Joty and only need USB sources.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The CS4398 was a Multibit Delta sigma DAC, the topology is still delta sigma. Most of the time in the schiit related threads, the term "Multibit" are referring to Multibit R2R topology.


----------



## theveterans

kenneth tang said:


> The CS4398 was a Multibit Delta sigma DAC, the topology is still delta sigma. Most of the time in the schiit related threads, the term "Multibit" are referring to Multibit R2R topology.


 
  
 It's probably a 6-bit delta sigma DAC. It still makes music through noise shaping techniques.


----------



## chowmein83

davida said:


> mainly the brightness of the Jot and the sound stage differences between the Jot and LC.  Only reason I say that the brightness differences are not that subtle is every one that I know who compared the Jot and LC its the first thing they notice on the HD800 or T1, the same goes for the sound stage where the LC has much better positional audio than the Jot.  I wouldn't call these huge or life altering but I also wouldn't call it subtle either.


 
  
 I actually totally agree with you on the soundstage part - perhaps I understated this _too _much. As for the brightness, I think we're hearing the same thing - again, maybe I was understating this difference a bit too much.


----------



## MikeW

I pulled my old Teradak Chameleon out the closet last week and tried it with the Jotunheim, i've done some pretty detailed listening impressions vs the built in AKM DAC.. honestly, I dident want to believe it, but the Chameleon is way better. And old TDA1543 x 16 design, mine's modified quite abit. Was really hoping for a one box solution, I don't know if im just not liking the 4490 sound signature, or if the Chameleon is just flat out better. It makes me wonder how this Chameleon fares to the Mimby/Bimby, I assumed it would lose no contest, but now im not so sure.

The chameleon beats it on soundstage, 3d, tonality, bass, etc. It might be a hair less resolving, but it's a hell of alot more pleasant to listen too... it's got me thinking about an Xmos XU208 interface now, but that's ~100$ and 2-3 weeks from china, that's a rather large chunk of change that could go toward a Mimby. I don't have a COAX output from my PC anymore, but I remember the Chameleon sounding best on COAX, i've just got it hooked up via USB now, witch I always remember being warm, fuzzy, and less resolving then COAX. An XMOS XU208 or even XU08 would be worlds better then any COAX i'd ever had it hooked up to in the past. I've been out of the USB to SPDIF converter loop for awhile, I almost bought a first gen HiFace on ebay for 40$, but I think that's pretty outdated now and a bad value.

Some of this is obviously subjective and gear dependant, my Denon D2K's are somewhat V shaped, and the Jot's built in dac is somewhat lean in the middle. Combine V shaped phones with a lean middle range and it's just not jiving. A headphone like HD650 that is thicker in the middle would sound entirely different, and I may prefer one over the other.


----------



## windcar

mikew said:


> I pulled my old Teradak Chameleon out the closet last week and tried it with the Jotunheim, i've done some pretty detailed listening impressions vs the built in AKM DAC.. honestly, I dident want to believe it, but the Chameleon is way better. And old TDA1543 x 16 design, mine's modified quite abit. Was really hoping for a one box solution, I don't know if im just not liking the 4490 sound signature, or if the Chameleon is just flat out better. It makes me wonder how this Chameleon fares to the Mimby/Bimby, I assumed it would lose no contest, but now im not so sure.
> 
> The chameleon beats it on soundstage, 3d, tonality, bass, etc. It might be a hair less resolving, but it's a hell of alot more pleasant to listen too... it's got me thinking about an Xmos XU208 interface now, but that's ~100$ and 2-3 weeks from china, that's a rather large chunk of change that could go toward a Mimby. I don't have a COAX output from my PC anymore, but I remember the Chameleon sounding best on COAX, i've just got it hooked up via USB now, witch I always remember being warm, fuzzy, and less resolving then COAX. An XMOS XU208 or even XU08 would be worlds better then any COAX i'd ever had it hooked up to in the past. I've been out of the USB to SPDIF converter loop for awhile, I almost bought a first gen HiFace on ebay for 40$, but I think that's pretty outdated now and a bad value.
> 
> Some of this is obviously subjective and gear dependant, my Denon D2K's are somewhat V shaped, and the Jot's built in dac is somewhat lean in the middle. Combine V shaped phones with a lean middle range and it's just not jiving. A headphone like HD650 that is thicker in the middle would sound entirely different, and I may prefer one over the other.


 
  
 I never like the pairing of Jot with my Denon D5k. Believe or not, I prefer E-MU 0204 or Creative ZXR sound card over it for that pairing. I just cannot stand the sound of a V shaped can with a V shaped amp. I think the Jot is best paired with a dark can, and quite surprisingly, it pairs well with most of my IEMs, even the bright ones....


----------



## andrejc

Jot with mimby sounds great with my Denon AH D7200. D7200 more flat than I expected it to be. Far from V shaped D7000. 

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


----------



## MikeW

Yeah, I think I sounded overly critical above. The day after I wrote that I changed the pads on my Denon D2k, and their tonality changed pretty significantly, little more bass, little more mids, and alot less high end, the pairing is much better now. Still not quite as nice as the Teradak, but closer. Thing is, the D2k is pretty V shaped, and the Jotunheim is said to be a little V shaped, and i'd say the DAC is also a little V shaped, there's just too much V... the Teradak is pretty warm, and has alot of MID's so it kinda synergized well with the combo.
  
 I think with a more laid back can, one could prefer the built in dac over the Chameleon. Perhaps. I honestly think Schiit voiced this thing for HD650. Im not really sure were to go from here, I think I want more  headphones before I invest in a better source. I only own the D2k's, i'd like to have some 650's and maybe a Monolith 1060, before I upgrade the source.
  
 I was actually quite shocked by the sound changes with new pads on the D2K, I had no expectation bias there, I though my original pads were getting worn out, flaking, and too soft, so i'd replace them, no big deal ~ I did not expect sonic changes. The new pads are much firmer, and a little thiner, I think they make a better "Seal" around the ears. They were just replacement ebay knock off pads, a pretty perfect "mimic" of the stock pads (no longer available). My stock pads were Stuffed via MARK L suggestions, these new pads I left as they came.


----------



## andrejc

How about the new Mrspeakers Aeon? With Sony z1r and zmf Eikon & Atticus they are HPs I would like to hear with the Jot 

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


----------



## califmike33

Have have a question I have the jotunheim with the internal DAC when I plug into the balanced input with XLR cables in the back does it bypass the DAC that's built into the jotunheim is the only way to use the internal DAC through USB?


----------



## Ggroch

There is a source switch on the front.   It lets you choose to listen to the Unbalanced Inputs, The Balanced Inputs, or the USB (or Phono) module input.  The internal DAC module is USB only. 
  
 If you are using either the Balanced or Unbalanced OUTPUTS on the back, they will play whatever source you choose on the front switch.


----------



## califmike33

So if I choose to use the balanced inputs on the back and put the switch on the front two balanced I will not be using the internal DAC is that correct?


----------



## Ggroch

califmike33 said:


> So if I choose to use the balanced inputs on the back and put the switch on the front two balanced I will not be using the internal DAC is that correct?


 
 Yes, I am doing that now with my new KORG 100 DAC


----------



## califmike33

Because I'm using my axon 7 phone as my source and playing my music and running it into the USB part of the dac but it's sucking my battery dry that USB dac draws a lot of power from my phone so I'm looking for another source to plug into the balanced inputs in the back. I'm thinking of buying a separate DAC and maybe like a portable music player or something.


----------



## califmike33

I'm kinda new to this I'm running the hd650 off the jotunheim amp kinda like the sound then I'm running my JBL lsr305 out of the balanced output that sounds fantastic I just need a better source to run into the balanced input and thank you for your help.


----------



## MWSVette

califmike33 said:


> So if I choose to use the balanced inputs on the back and put the switch on the front two balanced I will not be using the internal DAC is that correct?


 

 That is correct.  To use the DAC the input is USB with the switch to well the DAC.
  
 Both SE and XLR inputs on the Jot are line level inputs...


----------



## Ggroch

califmike33 said:


> Because I'm using my axon 7 phone as my source and playing my music and running it into the USB part of the dac but it's sucking my battery dry that USB dac draws a lot of power from my phone so I'm looking for another source to plug into the balanced inputs in the back. I'm thinking of buying a separate DAC and maybe like a portable music player or something.


 
 I have an Axon 7 too.  I often use the Axon as the source, and run that to a Chromecast Audio...then Optical Out from the Chromecast to an SMSL M8 DAC (that has optical in) to the Joty.
  
 Lets me use all of the Axon Sources (BubbleUpnup App streams SDcard music to the Chromecast), streaming sources etc and sounds great.


----------



## califmike33

Yep playing the music I'm using poweramp3 on my phone and plugging my axon 7 into the USB part of the deck on the jotunheim sound fabulous but it's sucking my battery dry


----------



## califmike33

My axon 7 will drive my hd650 plug directly into the phone and their 300 ohm drives them pretty damn good. Great phone absolutely a great phone.


----------



## appleidappleid

Hello, has anyone tried matching RHA CL1 with Jotunheim? How does it sound?


----------



## iAudio365

I currently have Ether Flows - AEON (on pre order) and am more than likely going to be getting Senmheiser hd800s soon as well, and using a mojo for a dac. 

I'm so torn between getting this Schiit Jotunheim or the Liquid Carbon. I honestly can not make a decission it's so frustration especially because I cant audition the LC it's still available on the site (seriously wondering when this "final run" is ever gonna end lol) where's the jot is readily available everywhere.

I've seen a tear down of the LC as well and the internals look like really poor build quality for the price you pay as well,but I hear the sound is warmer and not as bright as the Jot then I hear they sound pretty much the same as each other with a bit more detail in the jot lol. 

I'm really leaning toward the Jot though does it pair well with my headphones?

Edit: scratch all the above, I just pulled the trigger and bought a Jot. Price to performance, quality for for the $ value I couldn't help myself.


----------



## tuna47

Looking to purchase he1000 would these be better than the mojo as a dac and amp combo 
Thanks


----------



## jcdreamer

I have the HEK and the Focal Utopia with the Jotunheim and I have suspended any further search for amps and dacs for now.


----------



## slex

jcdreamer said:


> I have the HEK and the Focal Utopia with the Jotunheim and I have suspended any further search for amps and dacs for now.



How i wish schiit built headphones for the price of jotunheim...and my search will be done.


----------



## slex

iaudio365 said:


> I currently have Ether Flows - AEON (on pre order) and am more than likely going to be getting Senmheiser hd800s soon as well, and using a mojo for a dac.
> 
> I'm so torn between getting this Schiit Jotunheim or the Liquid Carbon. I honestly can not make a decission it's so frustration especially because I cant audition the LC it's still available on the site (seriously wondering when this "final run" is ever gonna end lol) where's the jot is readily available everywhere.
> 
> ...



Im trying out ifi new itube 2 soon. See whether i can tune this jotunheim 's transparency. Both jot and itube2 is cheaper then LC i guess?. Itching to try the push pull on itube2. Also it can be use on speakers too.


----------



## alota

i´m triyng the jotunheim and honestlyi am not able to understand the essence of this amplifier. one day i love, one day i hate(preferring the xd-05). i bought one mojo for a complete compairison and to try the the mojo like dac for jot


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

http://www.head-fi.org/a/head-fi-buying-guide-desktop-amps-dacs
  
 Why is Jude telling us Jotunheim is $599 USD? This is a pretty egregious error.


----------



## Tuneslover

bosiemoncrieff said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/a/head-fi-buying-guide-desktop-amps-dacs
> 
> Why is Jude telling us Jotunheim is $599 USD? This is a pretty egregious error.




Must be a typo because they state at the end of the blurb that the price with module is $499.


----------



## wasupdog

i think it does actually sound a little less forward on low power mode, running the exact same headphones.  I'll try this out for a while.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

slex said:


> Im trying out ifi new itube 2 soon. See whether i can tune this jotunheim 's transparency.


 
  
 Or Saga.


----------



## slex

jason stoddard said:


> Or Saga.



Wait until your Vidar is out


----------



## AverageGuyNC

ggroch said:


> Yes, I am doing that now with my new KORG 100 DAC




What are your impressions of the Korg? Is it better than the built in dac or what would you compare it to?


----------



## califmike33

Anybody tried a chord mojo as a DAC with the jotunheim I'm wondering how you would hook it up as just as a dac with the jotunheim. 

I'm just hearing way too many fabulous things about the dac in the chord Mojo supposably it's just phenomenal.


----------



## Dimitris

I have tried the mojo on jot briefly. It sounded pretty good. My esoteric sounds better so I haven't used the mojo that much.


----------



## califmike33

How did you hook it up to the jotunheim?


----------



## califmike33

I have the internal DAC with the jotunheim I'm just looking to try something else try to mess around with the sound signature a little bit I'm looking for another good DAC

Maybe mojo or bifrost


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

califmike33 said:


> I'm just hearing way too many fabulous things about the dac in the chord Mojo supposably it's just phenomenal.


 
 If you're hearing "can't match Bimby for transparency" and "slaughtered by Mimby in terms of price/performance ratio," then congratulations! Your understanding of the facts of the universe comports with reality!


----------



## Dimitris

Mini to rca cable


----------



## alota

califmike33 said:


> Anybody tried a chord mojo as a DAC with the jotunheim I'm wondering how you would hook it up as just as a dac with the jotunheim.
> 
> I'm just hearing way too many fabulous things about the dac in the chord Mojo supposably it's just phenomenal.



I'm waiting for a mojo. I think i'll receive next week


----------



## califmike33

Please let me know when you get it and hook it up your impressions on this and I'm very curious


----------



## alota

califmike33 said:


> Please let me know when you get it and hook it up your impressions on this and I'm very curious


 
 i will try alone and like dac for jot just to understand more about the jot because i´m a little confused about the sound


----------



## oldschool

When on high gain, the Jot produces an audible buzz with my HD600s upon scrolling down a list of files in Windows Explorer. The hum is inaudible on low gain.
  
 My PC shares the same socket extender with the Jot and this seems to be the only reason for the interference.. quite funny as it really only happens when scrolling a list of files in Windows Explorer!!


----------



## AverageGuyNC

What about Jot vs Mjolnir 2 in terms of sound quality? I know mj2 will sound warmer and different with tubes but what about sq and hearing more of the music? And mj2 suffers more if you don't use the balanced out right? Would there be a reason to use mj2 other than for tubes?


----------



## drwlf

oldschool said:


> When on high gain, the Jot produces an audible buzz with my HD600s upon scrolling down a list of files in Windows Explorer. The hum is inaudible on low gain.
> 
> My PC shares the same socket extender with the Jot and this seems to be the only reason for the interference.. quite funny as it really only happens when scrolling a list of files in Windows Explorer!!


 

 PSU/Motherboard issue.


----------



## oldschool

drwlf said:


> PSU/Motherboard issue.


 
  
 Nope - Jot is not connected to the PC in any way. My unit does not have an internal DAC. I am using Bimby separately.
  
 This buzz happens regardless of using the Bimby or not.


----------



## Ojisan

califmike33 said:


> Anybody tried a chord mojo as a DAC with the jotunheim I'm wondering how you would hook it up as just as a dac with the jotunheim.
> 
> I'm just hearing way too many fabulous things about the dac in the chord Mojo supposably it's just phenomenal.


 
  
 I used Mojo with Jotunheim w/DAC for a while and then sold my Mojo  Simply used 3.5mm to RCA (only choice I think). 
  
 To my ears, Mojo had a nice flat spectrum with a bit of granyness but slightly boring for me even with Jotunheim amp. The built in AKM with Jotunheim sounds more musical and alive to me and the amp really helps it too. There was no reason to have an extra box for my desktop setup, not to mention $100 vs $500. Its nowhere near x5 better. If you already own Mojo and love it, it might be a different story...
  
 My $0.02 worth.


----------



## Ojisan

califmike33 said:


> I have the internal DAC with the jotunheim I'm just looking to try something else try to mess around with the sound signature a little bit I'm looking for another good DAC
> 
> Maybe mojo or bifrost


 
  
 I've been thinking Bifrost multibit or Teac UD503 which exploits the whole feature of AK4490 chip.


----------



## drwlf

oldschool said:


> Nope - Jot is not connected to the PC in any way. My unit does not have an internal DAC. I am using Bimby separately.
> 
> This buzz happens regardless of using the Bimby or not.


 

 Doesn't happen in other situations where there's some/any load on the CPU/GPU?


----------



## oldschool

drwlf said:


> Doesn't happen in other situations where there's some/any load on the CPU/GPU?


 
  
 No. In fact it's a pretty good machine running Windows 10, 4.2GHz, 16GB RAM and SSD.
  
 Will test again tonight and move the Jot to a separate socket and see what happens. Will also disconnect the optical cable from my motherboard to the Bimby just in case, even if the unit is not turned on.


----------



## califmike33

I'm wondering is the bifrost worth that much more money how much difference is it actually going to make over the internal DAC?


----------



## drwlf

oldschool said:


> No. In fact it's a pretty good machine running Windows 10, 4.2GHz, 16GB RAM and SSD.
> 
> Will test again tonight and move the Jot to a separate socket and see what happens. Will also disconnect the optical cable from my motherboard to the Bimby just in case, even if the unit is not turned on.


 

 Now that's odd! Sounded like the good old EMI/ground loop problem tbh.


----------



## califmike33

Spoke with schiit about bifrost Vs internal dac. They said bifrost is a upgrade but you may or may not hear difference.


----------



## oldschool

drwlf said:


> Now that's odd! Sounded like the good old EMI/ground loop problem tbh.


 
  
 Ok figured it out but honestly this is the weirdest Shiit:
  
 - issue was noisy USB port to which Bimby was connected; with a good shielded cable btw
 - USB produced buzz amplified through the Jot on high gain, even when Bimby was off
 - buzz present only when scrolling lists of files in win explorer
  
 So happy I opted to buy mobo with optical out  No buzz when I disconnected the USB cable.


----------



## drwlf

oldschool said:


> Ok figured it out but honestly this is the weirdest Shiit:
> 
> - issue was noisy USB port to which Bimby was connected; with a good shielded cable btw
> - USB produced buzz amplified through the Jot on high gain, even when Bimby was off
> ...


 

 Good to hear you found a workaround!


----------



## Shayko

I am a relatively new owner of a Mimby / Jot, with a he-560 on the way. Will post first impressions on the pairing when those arrive, and possibly when I get a balanced cable later. Currently using Jot with an ad900x, which has been a bit harsh for me in the highs.


----------



## MikeW

oldschool said:


> Ok figured it out but honestly this is the weirdest Shiit:
> 
> - issue was noisy USB port to which Bimby was connected; with a good shielded cable btw
> - USB produced buzz amplified through the Jot on high gain, even when Bimby was off
> ...




Mobo optical is usually aweful, even on enthusiast boards. Try a wyrd or singxer f1

A good way to troubleshoot this is to lift the ground on jot with a 2$ "cheater plug" from walmart. If it's a ground loop that will stop it.


----------



## MarkF786

califmike33 said:


> Spoke with schiit about bifrost Vs internal dac. They said bifrost is a upgrade but you may or may not hear difference.


 

 That's an honest assessment from Sciit - but I think most people could easily hear a difference with the Bifrost Multibit (Bimby).  The internal DAC is darn good, but the Bimby is discernibly better - though not everyone would think it's worth the extra $500.
  
 Probably the Mimby is the best compromise for most people, if they don't mind the different form factor and the wall wart.  Or if 95% of the sound quality is close enough, sticking with the internal DAC is cheap and convenient.


----------



## califmike33

I agree not worth $500 for a 3% increase in sound quality.

They said it's an upgrade but they wouldn't guarantee that I would hear a difference if it's that close or very very difficult to hear the difference not worth it.

I got my jotunheim with internal dac for 450 bucks it was only 2 months old some guys sold it to me so I can't complain.


----------



## maxh22

mikew said:


> Mobo optical is usually aweful, even on enthusiast boards. Try a wyrd or singxer f1
> 
> A good way to troubleshoot this is to lift the ground on jot with a 2$ "cheater plug" from walmart. If it's a ground loop that will stop it.


 
  


oldschool said:


> Ok figured it out but honestly this is the weirdest Shiit:
> 
> - issue was noisy USB port to which Bimby was connected; with a good shielded cable btw
> - USB produced buzz amplified through the Jot on high gain, even when Bimby was off
> ...


 
  
 The Ifi spidif ipurifier is a good inexpensive upgrade to the optical out from your motherboard


----------



## Boban85

shayko said:


> I am a relatively new owner of a Mimby / Jot, with a he-560 on the way. Will post first impressions on the pairing when those arrive, and possibly when I get a balanced cable later. Currently using Jot with an ad900x, which has been a bit harsh for me in the highs.


 
 I am using the Jot with a he-560 for a few months now. The first two 2-3 days it sounded awful. Harsh, dry with piercing highs... After a week of keeping the Jot on all the time, the sound settled down and it was at least listenable. I still had to lower the volume with lower quality recordings. After a month of Jot on all time and with a new copper balanced cable using the 4-pin XLR output, I couldn't be happier with the sound. It's the best I have heard of my he-560. It's detailed, organic, punchy, full sounding, not harsh or sibilant (unless the recording is very sibilant). I am not sure what did the trick, the warm up of the Jot, more current from the balanced out, the new cable, or my ears adjusting to the sound; I just know I now enjoy the sound and wouldn't change a thing. The only flaw I can detect from the Jot is the flat, 2D soundstage, going from one ear to another, but it doesn't bother me.

 I guess what I am saying is give the combo a chance and don't get disappointed if it doesn't sound great right away.


----------



## oldschool

maxh22 said:


> The Ifi spidif ipurifier is a good inexpensive upgrade to the optical out from your motherboard


 
  
 Not sure it's worth the $150 asking price for the perceived 2% improvement in sound. Not even sure you need to "purify" spdif given you feed it into the Bifrost which is supposed to have a pretty good clock..?


----------



## Shayko

boban85 said:


> I am using the Jot with a he-560 for a few months now. The first two 2-3 days it sounded awful. Harsh, dry with piercing highs... After a week of keeping the Jot on all the time, the sound settled down and it was at least listenable. I still had to lower the volume with lower quality recordings. After a month of Jot on all time and with a new copper balanced cable using the 4-pin XLR output, I couldn't be happier with the sound. It's the best I have heard of my he-560. It's detailed, organic, punchy, full sounding, not harsh or sibilant (unless the recording is very sibilant). I am not sure what did the trick, the warm up of the Jot, more current from the balanced out, the new cable, or my ears adjusting to the sound; I just know I now enjoy the sound and wouldn't change a thing. The only flaw I can detect from the Jot is the flat, 2D soundstage, going from one ear to another, but it doesn't bother me.
> 
> I guess what I am saying is give the combo a chance and don't get disappointed if it doesn't sound great right away.


 
 I definitely expect the sound to change as I break in my 560 and get warmed up to the sound of the amp. Thanks for the reassuring words nonetheless, I'm excited to hear the difference. I remember the first time I tried my ad900x, it sounded very congested. It took about a month of casual listening before I had that "wow" moment with them, so I expect the same sort of change with this new setup. I've never owned a pair of headphones with massive soundstage, though I auditioned Fidelio X2's, HD 800, HD 800s at CES which were all impressive in that regard.


----------



## AverageGuyNC

califmike33 said:


> Spoke with schiit about bifrost Vs internal dac. They said bifrost is a upgrade but you may or may not hear difference.




Just fyi- they WILL NOT tell you that a product with will sound better than another. Doesn't matter if both are made by them. They will always say they don't know if you can hear a difference.


----------



## califmike33

I disagree with you you have a 15-day return policy will take anything back within 15 days. So they said yes absolutely hundred percent it sounds better and you receive it and you can't hear a difference you just send it back they have nothing to lose by telling you yes.


----------



## AverageGuyNC

They have a company policy to not tell you one will SOUND better than another and you won't get them to do it. They will give some statements on the products page (sorta) about how they sound but not when you email them. They may say they think one is a better conversion but will not tell you how you will think it sounds.

 Yes, you can try both out and send one back but after shipping and restocking fee, it can be kinda expensive. But could still be worth it tho. I've considered it. I'm really curious how much better gumby would be over mimby with jotunheim. 1,000$ is a big swing, and I'm pretty happy with just the plug in dac.


----------



## Mr Rick

califmike33 said:


> I disagree with you you have a 15-day return policy will take anything back within 15 days. So they said yes absolutely hundred percent it sounds better and you receive it and you can't hear a difference you just send it back they have nothing to lose by telling you yes.


 
  
 So you come back here after 15 days and say: "Schiit absolutely 100% told me the Schiit Sonic Wonder would sound better then my Big Ears Version V1. And, it did not. I'm sending this piece of Schiit back!"
  
 Sorry, but Schiit knows better then to make any guarantees.


----------



## Vigrith

califmike33 said:


> I disagree with you you have a 15-day return policy will take anything back within 15 days. So they said yes absolutely hundred percent it sounds better and you receive it and you can't hear a difference you just send it back they have nothing to lose by telling you yes.


 
  
 Not Schiit. That's not how they roll.


----------



## califmike33

I didn't know they had a company policy not to tell you things like that I was just looking for an honest opinion from somebody that work there and it seems like you should be able to give your opinion as long as you have the return policy because if it doesn't sound better and somebody said it did that work in the company you could always return it. I guess I could buy it and if I don't hear a noticeable difference I'll just send it back after 15 days it's not that expensive to do it question 30 to 40 dollars to try it out. Love their return policy that you can try anything out and send it back that's pretty cool


----------



## AverageGuyNC

vigrith said:


> Not Schiit. That's not how they roll.




Exactly! I know, I tried  I actually wish they would but they do their own thing


----------



## sludgeogre

califmike33 said:


> I didn't know they had a company policy not to tell you things like that I was just looking for an honest opinion from somebody that work there and it seems like you should be able to give your opinion as long as you have the return policy because if it doesn't sound better and somebody said it did that work in the company you could always return it. I guess I could buy it and if I don't hear a noticeable difference I'll just send it back after 15 days it's not that expensive to do it question 30 to 40 dollars to try it out. Love their return policy that you can try anything out and send it back that's pretty cool


 
 This opens up way too many doors for people to send belligerent emails demanding refunds. "You told me it would sound better! You liar! Aaaahhh gimme my money back!" Returns are a service they offer as a last resort. It shouldn't be used as a "Try before you buy" scenario for everyone. They would lose money very quickly doing that since there is a cost to restocking and re-selling those items.
  
 At the end of the day, we are all different in what we like to hear. They can't tell people how things are going to sound to them, we unfortunately have to make educated guesses.


----------



## MikeW

I can't speak for the ipurifier device, but the singxer f1 appears to be an amazing value compared to ddc of yesteryear, a similar performing device a few years ago would have cost 1000$+ or maybe just not available at any price. If course they are useless if using the integrated dac as it is USB only, some have claimed xmos xu208 to improve even schiit gen3. If you want to try something you can always sell it at a small loss or no loss, the used market for reclockers like wyrd, recovery, regen, ifi is pretty hot right now, and so is xu208 converters for that matter. 

2 different device categories so we are clear, USB to spdif (xmos) and decrapifier. 

You definitely don't want to spend 500$ on a ddc and pair it with a 200$ dac tho, that would be dumb. But I know I'd want a USB decrapifier no matter what level of dac I was running, so I don't think a 60$ used wyrd or 90$ regen is out of place in a modest sub 200$ dac category personally.


----------



## FiGuY1017

Jot just came today so .. ipod touch cck-mimby-Jot-he560,1840,phvi. Coming from Ican se. Pretty impressed!I was wincing before I cranked up the 560's but was pleased by a polite tone that didn't shred my earholes!best I've ever heard my 560's!


----------



## Baldr

vigrith said:


> Not Schiit. That's not how they roll.


 

 Too many different products and too many different listeners, all of whom are entitled to their own priorities, pocketbooks, and sonic like/dislikes.  The bottom line we have no prerogative over anyone's likes or dislikes of any audio gear.  But we are betting that you probably will like one or more pieces we build, based on our experience.


----------



## Shayko

First impression with a new pair of he-560 on the jot with mimby after ~2hr.: I was immediately impressed by the out-of-the-box bass response of the 560. Even on the SE output, I don't need to use high gain to reach thunderously loud volumes. The mids and highs seem a tad bit distant and laid back, which I expect to change as the headphones break in. Soundstage is also minimal, but once again I expect that until they've had some burn in. The mimby / jot combo brings tons of details to the music that I've heard so far. Honestly very impressed with the jot, especially in this pairing!


----------



## iAudio365

Anyone using the Jotunheim with Sennheiser HD800S headphones (not the 800's older ones)

I'm curious as to how it sounds.

Cheers


----------



## AverageGuyNC

Well I ordered the mimby today to see how it sounds vs the dac in the jotunheim. I really considered gumby hard, especially if you can upgrade it every so often for a reasonable price. People have said running balanced dac to jotunheim sounds great. But 1,200$ ,that's more than I paid for my th900 or jotunheim, so hard to justify it. Plus, maybe I can spend that 1,000$ on anether nice set to try. Considering Audeze next.


----------



## Vigrith

baldr said:


> Too many different products and too many different listeners, all of whom are entitled to their own priorities, pocketbooks, and sonic like/dislikes.  The bottom line we have no prerogative over anyone's likes or dislikes of any audio gear.  But we are betting that you probably will like one or more pieces we build, based on our experience.


 
  
 Absolutely, it's all about integrity to me - one of the many reasons I like your company is that you do not feel entitled to tell the customer/listener what they should buy or try and convince them as for why they should buy it. Yet all of you, yourself, Jason, Nick, etc. have helped me many a time with your honest opinions and impressions on certain things that you build. It's a hard balance to keep and it is impressive that you can walk the line the way you do.


----------



## briman1000

You can't guarantee an opinion. How something sounds and whether it sounds better than x is an opinion. I bought the JOT with built in DAC because I felt that it was a good value for what I was getting by a company that will stand behind their warranty if there is an issue. I will probably never sell it because I just don't hear much difference myself in DACs or amplifiers past a point. Headphones are another story to me. They all sound different in qualitative and usually quantifiable measurements. I felt that for $500 I could by something that would power any headphone and do it well. I wish the damn power switch was on the front though. Only complaint.


----------



## fauxdiophile

that is perfectly reasonable... it's just not what we're used to!


----------



## fauxdiophile

briman1000 said:


> You can't guarantee an opinion. How something sounds and whether it sounds better than x is an opinion. I bought the JOT with built in DAC because I felt that it was a good value for what I was getting by a company that will stand behind their warranty if there is an issue. I will probably never sell it because I just don't hear much difference myself in DACs or amplifiers past a point. Headphones are another story to me. They all sound different in qualitative and usually quantifiable measurements. I felt that for $500 I could by something that would power any headphone and do it well. I wish the damn power switch was on the front though. Only complaint.


 
 this is exactly why i bought the jot. i have a bifrost MB and liquid carbon for home, and a jot for work. i feel there are minute differences between the 2 setups, but i have not A/B'd them so who knows if that's even real. I DO hear a huge difference between diff headphones, tho.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

It's the transducers, stupid. Yeah, wa5 does sound very wet and rich and wonderful, but I'm not paying 4K or 6k for that last 30%. Better to get a k1k or heck an lcd2


----------



## iAudio365

iaudio365 said:


> I currently have Ether Flows - AEON (on pre order) and am more than likely going to be getting Senmheiser hd800s soon as well, and using a mojo for a dac.
> 
> I'm so torn between getting this Schiit Jotunheim or the Liquid Carbon. I honestly can not make a decission it's so frustration especially because I cant audition the LC it's still available on the site (seriously wondering when this "final run" is ever gonna end lol) where's the jot is readily available everywhere.
> 
> ...




Ok so I have now heard the jot (if only for a short time) with my HD800S, not sure how to say but it is a little bright for my liking, details are very pronounced. I think I want something a little darker sounding so I'm going to go ahead (against all my gut instinct) and buy a Cavalli Liquid carbon. I'm just going to fingers, feet and toes crossed I do not get imbalance issues.

I just cant find anything else that interests me in all honesty, I heard LC pair really well with mojo and Hugo (which i will be getting a hugo 2 when they launch) and that gives a nice warm sound (or so I hope) but from what I've been told its a nice little balanced amp.

Everything else I've looked at is either far to big or far to ugly, and I want something that sounds good and is stealthy as well due to my desk space. 

We'll see how I go.


----------



## JorgeGVB

I received a Jot with the DAC option today and it sounded great out of the box. Can't wait to hear it once it has time run for a couple of weeks.


----------



## iAudio365

jorgegvb said:


> I received a Jot with the DAC option today and it sounded great out of the box. Can't wait to hear it once it has time run for a couple of weeks.




Yeh I didn't get a lot of time with it due to work etc. i will test it out some more. What headphones did you use with it?


----------



## DavidA

iaudio365 said:


> Ok so I have now heard the jot (if only for a short time) with my HD800S, not sure how to say but it is a little bright for my liking, details are very pronounced. I think I want something a little darker sounding so I'm going to go ahead (against all my gut instinct) and buy a Cavalli Liquid carbon. I'm just going to fingers, feet and toes crossed I do not get imbalance issues.
> 
> I just cant find anything else that interests me in all honesty, I heard LC pair really well with mojo and Hugo (which i will be getting a hugo 2 when they launch) and that gives a nice warm sound (or so I hope) but from what I've been told its a nice little balanced amp.
> 
> ...


 
 LC and HD800 is a really good pairing while the Jot is too bright for me also.  The Hugo doesn't need an additional amp to drive the HD800 but I didn't try it with a HD800S but it shouldn't make a difference.  The only headphone the Jot really sounds good with is a HD650, its a bit too bright for most other headphones that i have.  Did tubes ever interest you or too much work and limited desk space it the main concern?


----------



## JorgeGVB

I was limited on time too, so I was just running the Jot through my powered M‑Audio StudioPhile AV 40 Speakers.  I use them as computer speakers.  My cans are the HD600 (balanced) and Grado SR225.


----------



## MattTCG

davida said:


> LC and HD800 is a really good pairing while the Jot is too bright for me also.  The Hugo doesn't need an additional amp to drive the HD800 but I didn't try it with a HD800S but it shouldn't make a difference.  The only headphone the Jot really sounds good with is a HD650, its a bit too bright for most other headphones that i have.  Did tubes ever interest you or too much work and limited desk space it the main concern?


 Jot also works very well with Nighthawk, and hex for me.


----------



## DavidA

matttcg said:


> Jot also works very well with Nighthawk, and hex for me.


 
 I can see the Jot working well with the Nighthawk, just had one for a few weeks but I wasn't able to borrow a friends Jot to try the pairing.


----------



## CarlosUnchained

Finally I could test some Schiit with my LCD-X!
  
 First I have to say that I'm looking for my first and hopefully my last amp and DAC. I've only listened through them in stores. Many of them and in sessions no shorter than 2 hours though. I did the same for the headphones. I like this approach better than buying and upgrading. More affordable in the long run. Luckily I'm currently living in Taipei were there are plenty of hi-fi stores around.
  
 Sooo Valhalla 2 takes here the third place. The lack of power with low impedance cans is noticeable. The warmest of the three. May be nicer with ~300 ohms hp.
  
 Then between the Jot and the Lyr 2 was really hard to decide. I put them front to front to switch cables as fast as possible. Lyr is slightly warmer and has more soundstage compared with single ended Jot, but balanced brings a bit of that, I think still behind the Lyr. Other than that I didn't notice any differences between SE and balanced out of the Jot. I felt with some tracks (Hannah -- Sisters by Brian Eno) that the Jot was too bright with the X's. I heard a slightly warmer amp than the Lyr and much larger soundstage, but at 3x price. I really wanted to demo de Jot w/DAC because was the one I was aiming for, but they don't have it. As I move often I like the idea of having everything in one box and since the DACs didn't make that much difference as the amp as I state below, I guess I would be more than happy with the DAC added in the Jot.
  
 But so far I enjoyed more the Lyr and that makes things much more difficult. Not only because I need a separate DAC, also because I love how it stacks with the Bifrost!
  
 About the DAC, I used the Bifrost MB, but that's out of my budget so I wanted to test something cheaper. It was the Modi 2U (no MB to demo). I'm happy I didn't notice much difference between the Bimby and the Modi 2U, still I went twice to the store so didn't A/B test them one after another, morning the Bimby and afternoon the Modi, many hours in between. Next time I'll try to test them in the same session.
  
 I saw Schiit products in pictures thousands of times, but still I was impressed by the build quality and the looks. I think they are the sexiest amps out there, the bigger brothers were sitting next to me, Rag, Mjolnir, Yggy and Gungnir. The ugliest ones are the Modi sized and Yggy sized, the ones in between win the beauty competition.


----------



## Iron-Buddha

Sorry if this is covered somewhere else already, but can the Jot's USB-In take a feed from an AK320/380?    I know they implemented USB out on those DAPs.   Would be interesting to have the AK+Jot as a self-contained system without needing my laptop.  I guess I could use the analog in's as a back-up.


----------



## Vigrith

iron-buddha said:


> Sorry if this is covered somewhere else already, but can the Jot's USB-In take a feed from an AK320/380?    I know they implemented USB out on those DAPs.   Would be interesting to have the AK+Jot as a self-contained system without needing my laptop.  I guess I could use the analog in's as a back-up.


 
  
 Should be able to yea, I'm pretty sure I've tried it with my AK70 as a transport for my Modi MB + Mjolnir2/Jotun - didn't really pay it much mind since I only use my headphones whilst at the computer regardless, bypassing it would be pretty much redundant. See no reason why you wouldn't be able to do it with the 320/380 directly into the Jotunheim's DAC module.


----------



## Soundofmusic

carlosunchained said:


> Finally I could test some Schiit with my LCD-X!
> 
> First I have to say that I'm looking for my first and hopefully my last amp and DAC. I've only listened through them in stores. Many of them and in sessions no shorter than 2 hours though. I did the same for the headphones. I like this approach better than buying and upgrading. More affordable in the long run. Luckily I'm currently living in Taipei were there are plenty of hi-fi stores around.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I was in the same situation, I've spent so many hours reading up on various forums and buying lower tier dac/amps that I haven't been satisfied with.
 So today my local Schiit retailer finally got all the ones I wanted to demo in stock, and I was able to A/B Jotunheim w/DAC, and Jotunheim, Lyr 2 and Valhalla 2 all with the Modi Multibit.
 The cans I used were X2, HD650 (and a quick demo of Focal Utopia just for fun).
  
 I came into the shop dead set on buying Jotunheim w/DAC (to eventually upgrade the DAC to some future version of the Bitfrost MB), but I found the Jotunheim to be too bright for me, it was a bit painful to my ears with the HD650, and I couldn't really go to the "fun" volume levels. With the darker X2 it was ok, but still borderlining. I had the same experience the previous time I did a rushed demo of it as well.
  
 For the Lyr 2, I'm too novice to explain in the correct terms, but I felt something was missing.
  
 When I heard the sound signature of the Valhalla 2 with the HD650, I was convinced pretty immediately and ended up buying that. To my ears, it strikes a good balance of fun and detailed.
  
 Disclaimer; the amps I demoed weren't warmed up, and they only got about 30 minutes of listening each.
  
 On a side note; Focal Utopia, oh my god what a good headphone!


----------



## califmike33

To each their own I have the hd650 with the jotunheim with internal dac I hear no brightness no harshness just beautiful detailed sound.


----------



## alota

soundofmusic said:


> I was in the same situation, I've spent so many hours reading up on various forums and buying lower tier dac/amps that I haven't been satisfied with.
> So today my local Schiit retailer finally got all the ones I wanted to demo in stock, and I was able to A/B Jotunheim w/DAC, and Jotunheim, Lyr 2 and Valhalla 2 all with the Modi Multibit.
> The cans I used were X2, HD650 (and a quick demo of Focal Utopia just for fun).
> 
> ...


 
 Jot with utopia is a good combo?


----------



## Soundofmusic

alota said:


> Jot with utopia is a good combo?



I think anything is a good combo with the Utopia  I listened to them with the Lyr 2 though.


----------



## jcdreamer

alota said:


> Jot with utopia is a good combo?


Yes. Could be endgame setup for me.


----------



## CarlosUnchained

soundofmusic said:


> I was in the same situation, I've spent so many hours reading up on various forums and buying lower tier dac/amps that I haven't been satisfied with.
> So today my local Schiit retailer finally got all the ones I wanted to demo in stock, and I was able to A/B Jotunheim w/DAC, and Jotunheim, Lyr 2 and Valhalla 2 all with the Modi Multibit.
> The cans I used were X2, HD650 (and a quick demo of Focal Utopia just for fun).
> 
> ...


 
  
 As I said, Valhalla delivers good amount of power to the HD650, so yes, they fit better the Val than the Lyr. In low impedance cans it was just fine compared with the 4W+ that the Lyr delivers to my hungry Xs.


----------



## olor1n

davida said:


> iaudio365 said:
> 
> 
> > Ok so I have now heard the jot (if only for a short time) with my HD800S, not sure how to say but it is a little bright for my liking, details are very pronounced. I think I want something a little darker sounding so I'm going to go ahead (against all my gut instinct) and buy a Cavalli Liquid carbon. I'm just going to fingers, feet and toes crossed I do not get imbalance issues.
> ...




It's not the Jot that's too bright, it's the headphone. The Jot isn't rolled off at either end of the spectrum, nor does it colour the mids with "warmth" not present in the recording.

And I call BS on your assertion that the HD650 is the only headphone the Jot sounds good with. Don't think you've spent enough time with the Jot to be swaying other people's decision on it. Either that or your preference is skewed towards a coloured presentation, and the Jot's honesty is too much for you to bear.


----------



## DavidA

olor1n said:


> It's not the Jot that's too bright, it's the headphone. The Jot isn't rolled off at either end of the spectrum, nor does it colour the mids with "warmth" not present in the recording.
> 
> And I call BS on your assertion that the HD650 is the only headphone the Jot sounds good with. Don't think you've spent enough time with the Jot to be swaying other people's decision on it. Either that or your preference is skewed towards a coloured presentation, and the Jot's honesty is too much for you to bear.


 
 who wants honesty if it sound bad to them?


----------



## ginetto61

hi, could it be a long break-in issue ?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





some units take a little longer to develop the final sound. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Regards, gino


----------



## MWSVette

Once again I think personal preference comes into play.
  
 I have more than a dozen sets of headphones.  None of them sound bad with the Jot.  Are there some that I prefer their sound signature with other amps such as the Lyr, DC-1 or out of the speaker taps of my Zamp?  Absolutely. 
  
 I doubt I would call someone's opinion BS, even if I personally disagree.  Each is allowed their own opinion...


----------



## DavidA

ginetto61 said:


> hi, could it be a long break-in issue ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hi Gino, I don't know if your post was directed at me but the Jot in question was borrowed from a friend and had a few hundred hours of use on them.  The amps we compared the Jot to were a Liquid Carbon, HA-501 and Hugo and it was the brightest of the 4, even the owner of the Jot was surprised by this.  Headphones we used were HD800, HD700, HE560, T1, Ether C, LCD-3f, and HD650.  I admit the HD650 on the Jot is impressive but for the other headphones the Jot was not something I cared for, a little too bright for me and my friends who I need to thank for bringing over their gear so we could do some informal comparisons


----------



## ginetto61

davida said:


> Hi Gino, I don't know if your post was directed at me.


 
 Hi David ! thank you very much indeed for your kind reply
 Actually it was directed to anyone with direct experience of this very interesting amp that i am thinking to buy.  
 The fact that it can work also as line balanced preamp makes it even more interesting to me.  


> but the Jot in question was borrowed from a friend and had a few hundred hours of use on them


 
  
 so break-in was not the issue i guess.
  


> The amps we compared the Jot to were a Liquid Carbon, HA-501 and Hugo and it was the brightest of the 4, even the owner of the Jot was surprised by this.
> Headphones we used were HD800, HD700, HE560, T1, Ether C, LCD-3f, and HD650.
> *I admit the HD650 on the Jot is impressive *but for the other headphones the Jot was not something I cared for, a little too bright for me and my friends
> who I need to thank for bringing over their gear so we could do some informal comparisons.


 
 It seems that matching is very important. Good to know that at least when paired with the HD650 it was great.  I will keep that in mind in case i buy it.
 Thank you very much again for the very valuable advice.
 Kind regards,  gino


----------



## DavidA

@ginetto61, No problem GIno, the longer i've been in this hobby the more I find that synergy between the amp and headphones (and DAC to) is one of the more important things to consider but as I have been told by others, trust your own ears as you are the only person that matters, if it sounds good to you is all that really matters.  I'm lucky to have a few friends who are into audio gear so we get together once every few months, not always to listen to gear but sometimes just to enjoy some wine, food and conversation.


----------



## ginetto61

davida said:


> @ginetto61, No problem GIno, the longer i've been in this hobby the more I find that synergy between the amp and headphones (and DAC to) is one of the more important things to consider
> but as I have been told by others, trust your own ears as you are the only person that matters, if it sounds good to you is all that really matters.
> I'm lucky to have a few friends who are into audio gear so we get together once every few months, not always to listen to gear but sometimes just to enjoy some wine, food and conversation.


 
  
 Hi again. I am always looking for neutrality/realism in reproduced sounds. 
 Of course the right recordings are a very important tool to judge a system. 
 When my brain starts to be fooled to hear the real instrument/noise i am done and amazed.
 Again with the right recordings.


----------



## DavidA

ginetto61 said:


> Hi again. I am always looking for neutrality/realism in reproduced sounds.
> Of course the right recordings are a very important tool to judge a system.
> When my brain starts to be fooled to hear the real instrument/noise i am done and amazed.
> Again with the right recordings.


 
 Hi Gino,
 I just took a look at your profile and noticed that you have a few higher impedance headphones, I would suggest a hybrid tube amp for those over the Jot only because you can tune the sound to your liking.  The thing with neutural/realism/natural is its hard to say since what is neutral/natural to you may not be to me and I find that its something not worth bothering with as long as it sounds good to me, or as you say "the right recordings".  I don't strive for the best or consider things like "HD800 is upgrade to HD600 "since to me there is no best sound signature, just different flavors, as in wine, woman and song.
 My idea of what is sounds comes from being a musician from middle school until I graduated from college, I used to play a trumpet, guitar (acoustic/electric) and ukulele (Hawaiian instrument-like a small 4 string guitar) and along with playing in the school bands played in a group with some friends during my high school and college years, gave it all up to become an engineer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  My ex-wife was a soprano and her mom was a piano teacher so been around music for a while.


----------



## alota

davida said:


> Hi Gino,
> I just took a look at your profile and noticed that you have a few higher impedance headphones, I would suggest a hybrid tube amp for those over the Jot only because you can tune the sound to your liking.  The thing with neutural/realism/natural is its hard to say since what is neutral/natural to you may not be to me and I find that its something not worth bothering with as long as it sounds good to me, or as you say "the right recordings".  I don't strive for the best or consider things like "HD800 is upgrade to HD600 "since to me there is no best sound signature, just different flavors, as in wine, woman and song.
> My idea of what is sounds comes from being a musician from middle school until I graduated from college, I used to play a trumpet, guitar (acoustic/electric) and ukulele (Hawaiian instrument-like a small 4 string guitar) and along with playing in the school bands played in a group with some friends during my high school and college years, gave it all up to become an engineer
> 
> ...


 
 Just to laugh a little bit


----------



## ginetto61

davida said:


> Hi Gino,
> I just took a look at your profile and noticed that you have a few higher impedance headphones, I would suggest a hybrid tube amp for those over the Jot only because you can tune the sound to your liking.
> The thing with neutural/realism/natural is its hard to say since what is neutral/natural to you may not be to me and I find that its something not worth bothering with as long as it sounds good to me, or as you say "the right recordings".
> I don't strive for the best or consider things like "HD800 is upgrade to HD600 "since to me there is no best sound signature, just different flavors, as in wine, woman and song.
> ...


 
  
 Thanks again for the advice.  To be honest i am still stuck on the question 1st the HP or the amp ?  so i am still confused. 
 But i do not want to derail the thread.  I will keep on reading about this very interesting amp.
 It could be the end of the game for me.
 Regards, gino


----------



## alota

ginetto61 said:


> Thanks again for the advice.  To be honest i am still stuck on the question 1st the HP or the amp ?  so i am still confused.
> But i do not want to derail the thread.  I will keep on reading about this very interesting amp.
> It could be the end of the game for me.
> Regards, gino


 
 first the hp, after the amp


----------



## Ojisan

davida said:


> Hi Gino,
> I just took a look at your profile and noticed that you have a few higher impedance headphones, I would suggest a hybrid tube amp for those over the Jot only because you can tune the sound to your liking.  The thing with neutural/realism/natural is its hard to say since what is neutral/natural to you may not be to me and I find that its something not worth bothering with as long as it sounds good to me, or as you say "the right recordings".  I don't strive for the best or consider things like "HD800 is upgrade to HD600 "since to me there is no best sound signature, just different flavors, as in wine, woman and song.
> My idea of what is sounds comes from being a musician from middle school until I graduated from college, I used to play a trumpet, guitar (acoustic/electric) and ukulele (Hawaiian instrument-like a small 4 string guitar) and along with playing in the school bands played in a group with some friends during my high school and college years, gave it all up to become an engineer
> 
> ...


 
  
 Interesting conversation here. There's something about music and engineering 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I also come from electric guitar in high school/college, gave up to become an engineer, but still play fingerstyle acoustic and classical long after that. My wife is trained as a pro flutist doing something else now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Back on topic though, one data point that I would like to add from my experience so far with Jot (w/DAC) is that it seems to have mellowed down quite a bit (either burn-in or my brain-burn-in) after one month (about 15 hours on-time everyday). I sometimes find myself looking for that edgy-ness that I heard at the beginning. But when I switch back and forth between my Crack and Jot, it does have more top end. 
  
 Another thing I found is that I have to really crank up Jot to drive my K240 600ohm. For this, Jot pre-out to Crack does a wonderful job. 
  
 Cheers.


----------



## ginetto61

alota said:


> first the hp, after the amp


 

 Thank you very much indeed for the valuable advice. 
 Actually I have already some HPs that i like. 
 Not easy to try an amp without buying it unfortunately.


----------



## alota

ginetto61 said:


> Thank you very much indeed for the valuable advice.
> Actually I have already some HPs that i like.
> Not easy to try an amp without buying it unfortunately.


 
 really sorry, i know my answer is succinct. when you have one headphone of course the best solution is an adequate amplifier.
 with some headphones, it´s more complicated.
 like you i live in portugal and i have only tried buiyng the stuffs


----------



## Vigrith

olor1n said:


> It's not the Jot that's too bright, it's the headphone. The Jot isn't rolled off at either end of the spectrum, nor does it colour the mids with "warmth" not present in the recording.
> 
> And I call BS on your assertion that the HD650 is the only headphone the Jot sounds good with. Don't think you've spent enough time with the Jot to be swaying other people's decision on it. Either that or your preference is skewed towards a coloured presentation, and the Jot's honesty is too much for you to bear.


 
  
 Whilst I'm not sure "BS" is the way I'd describe it personally, I do definitely agree that saying the Jotunheim only sounds good with the HD650 is a little extreme - I'd say that for most people that is absolutely not accurate, I don't have nearly the amount of headphones David does but I'm coming up on like 10 pairs now and the only ones that sound bright with it are T90s (go figure LOL); the HE-560s sound a little dry and boring but again, that's what they sound like to begin with imo, the Jotun's not at fault for that.
  
 As I have said and will reiterate, the Jotunheim is characterless. Bright in, bright out. Boring in, boring out.


----------



## MWSVette

ginetto61 said:


> Thanks again for the advice.  To be honest i am still stuck on the question 1st the HP or the amp ?  so i am still confused.
> But i do not want to derail the thread.  I will keep on reading about this very interesting amp.
> It could be the end of the game for me.
> Regards, gino


 

 Headphones first, then amps, then DAC's, then everything else....


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

idk, I'd rather have Yggy to MJ2 than Gumby to Rag.


----------



## MWSVette

I would love a Gumby, yet I would rather have an Yggy and  I would rather have A MJ2, because I love tubes, than a Rag...


----------



## MarkF786

I just received my HD800S and a _very early_ report is I don't find them bright with the Jotunheim.  In terms of tonal balance, they sound well balanced to me.  The other phones I commonly use with my Jot are the Elear, Amiron, HD600, HD650, SE846, and ER4XR.  The HD800S are definitely brighter than the HD600/650, but similar to the Elear or Amiron in brightness.  I love the sound of the HD600/650 but more often reach for the Amiron or Elear for more detail in the treble region.  The HD800S offer a similar level of detail in the treble as the Amiron, but with greater control in the bass.  Comparing the HD800S to the Elear, they each seem to have their strengths but are equally classed based on a quick listen.
  
 Anyway, I just wanted to give an early impression since some have reported the HD800S to be too bright with the Jotunheim, which I do not believe to be true.
  
 On a side note, the HD800S I received had a couple dings on the left yoke and seemed they might have been an open-boxed customer return, based on some differences in packing compared to unboxing videos I've watched.  I've emailed the vendor, who has given me good customer service in the past, so hopefully the issue is remedied.


----------



## oldschool

markf786 said:


> Comparing the HD800S to the Elear, they each seem to have their strengths but are equally classed based on a quick listen.


 
  
 What do you like about each and what music is best suited for each?


----------



## FiGuY1017

Final Sonorous vi has great synergy very euphoric with the jot&mimby better than my 560-jot.


----------



## MarkF786

oldschool said:


> What do you like about each and what music is best suited for each?


 
  
 Again, this is a very early impression but here's what stands out to me, comparing the HD800S to the Elear.
  
 The Elear has a odd dip in the midrange; it's easy to see in it's frequency response graph, and it drives many people crazy.  It's hard for me to always hear it directly, but I feel it does cause me to raise the volume, which then causes fatigue over time (and it's bad for the ears).  Also the Elear are almost too dynamic, again causing fatigue.  The HD800S clearly doesn't have this dip and thus has more presence in the midrange, thus I haven't needed to listen to them as loudly.  They are pretty dynamic though, but maybe a touch less than the Elear.  Using the balanced cable, with the Jot's gain switch on high, the dynamic range was similar to the Elear - but with the gain switch on low, they seemed to be a little less dynamic and thus less fatiguing.  The Elear have a low impedance, so they are extremely dynamic with most amps.  Some people love extreme dynamics, but think of someone playing a snare drum next to your ear; the dynamics can become unpleasant, and thus a touch of compression that most phones and speakers offer can be good thing.
  
 One obvious area where the Elear are slightly better though is in the bass.  There is a track "Slow Down the Bass" that someone else recommended on Head-Fi for testing headphones, and many headphones just sound flubby with this track to varying degrees.  The Elear handles this track amazingly well, with extended bass that's very visceral, tight, and detailed.  The HD800S also does a good job with the track, but the bass sounds less extended and and little lower in volume.  Granted, few tracks exercise a headphone in the bass region like this, so it's probably not a huge difference on the average track.
  
 I couldn't comment regarding which is better for different genres.  I listen to a wide variety of genres and haven't personally found a preference for headphones by genre.


----------



## Traum

Any impressions of the good ol' DT800 600Ω when paired with the Jot + built-in DAC module? A quick search through the thread doesn't seem to return anything particularly meaningful, so some 1st hand insights would be appreciated.


----------



## AverageGuyNC

I just got a new Modi multibit to go with jotunheim. First impression is good! I can hear a difference, tho not huge, in the clarity and quality of the music. The vocals and midrange seem better but also louder for some reason. And it's like the bass was turned down some. 

I went back to equalizer and made sure it was up there but it was pretty much set the same even though I don't hear quit as much? Maybe just me. 

Also it now has a small hiss that I can hear if there is nothing playing. It used to be totally silent with built in dac. I'm using some 20 year old Monster Cable rca cable that are maybe 10 ft long that I had laying around. I ordered a new 3ft acoustic research cable off ebay. And I also bought a Schiit wyrd. Both will be here next week. Is it normal to hear a hiss and could it be from just an old rca?


----------



## earnmyturns

averageguync said:


> Is it normal to hear a hiss and could it be from just an old rca?


 
 Have a Bimby, not Mimby, connected by very short RCAs (Schiit's own PYST cables) to my Jot. No hiss whatsoever. I suspect the long, poorly shielded cables you are using are picking electrical noise from the environment. IMHO, for cables the shorter the better, so I'd go as short as possible for the Mimby>Jot connection, which could be shorter than the 3ft you are planning.


----------



## MikeW

I recently added a Wyred 4 Sound Recovery to the JOT's internal dac chain, for me, in my setup, witch consist of a high end gaming PC, (6700k, asus hero alpha, seasonic x650 psu), with various USB accessories (wireless mouse) (gaming key board) etc. The difference was not subtle at all. Quite abit better. Bass, and resolution is beter, Mid's are better, and the sound is less fatiguing, less etched. Im really enjoying it. I no longer feel like i have to crank up the volume either, to get that satisfied feeling. The best part is the less fatiguing part, can just enjoy the music.
  
 YMMV, everyone's setup is different and these devices effect people's gear more or less, depending on computer, mains power, gadgets hooked up to your pc, overclocking, motherboard, so on and so on. I don't know if my PC is particularly noisy or has bad USB, or if my situation is typical. It's high end hardware though, no cheap oem crap. The PSU is very good, as far as SMPS PC switchers go. Im using belkin Gold USB cables, and PS AUDIO DUET for mains conditioning.


----------



## AverageGuyNC

earnmyturns said:


> Have a Bimby, not Mimby, connected by very short RCAs (Schiit's own PYST cables) to my Jot. No hiss whatsoever. I suspect the long, poorly shielded cables you are using are picking electrical noise from the environment. IMHO, for cables the shorter the better, so I'd go as short as possible for the Mimby>Jot connection, which could be shorter than the 3ft you are planning.




I almost wish that I ordered the PYST cables but figured I could save money. I planned on going to monoprice 1.5ft since I needed a usb cable from them too. They were back ordered a month on both!

 Tho I'm not familiar with acoustic research, I hope they are good and 3ft is as short as I found from them.

But glad to hear this isn't normal. I'll get it fixed somehow.


----------



## AverageGuyNC

mikew said:


> I recently added a Wyred 4 Sound Recovery to the JOT's internal dac chain, for me, in my setup, witch consist of a high end gaming PC, (6700k, asus hero alpha, seasonic x650 psu), with various USB accessories (wireless mouse) (gaming key board) etc. The difference was not subtle at all. Quite abit better. Bass, and resolution is beter, Mid's are better, and the sound is less fatiguing, less etched. Im really enjoying it. I no longer feel like i have to crank up the volume either, to get that satisfied feeling. The best part is the less fatiguing part, can just enjoy the music.
> 
> YMMV, everyone's setup is different and these devices effect people's gear more or less, depending on computer, mains power, gadgets hooked up to your pc, overclocking, motherboard, so on and so on. I don't know if my PC is particularly noisy or has bad USB, or if my situation is typical. It's high end hardware though, no cheap oem crap. The PSU is very good, as far as SMPS PC switchers go. Im using belkin Gold USB cables, and PS AUDIO DUET for mains conditioning.




I'm using a pretty basic Dell. 8gb ram, 2tb hd and 250gb ssd, i5. Cheap Nvidia video card. Nothing OC.

I'm using a tripp lite usb cable with ferrite block. But I know it's gotta be the rca since I only added it and the Modi (Unless it's a defective brand new unit?)


----------



## MikeW

my comment was not really in reply to your issue, just my comment's on the W4S RUR. Try the new RCA cables before you do any other troubleshooting.


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## AverageGuyNC

mikew said:


> my comment was not really in reply to your issue, just my comment's on the W4S RUR. Try the new RCA cables before you do any other troubleshooting.




Yeah I got that. I actually ordered it maybe a day before the Modi came just to see if it would make a difference. I'm hoping I get your kind of results!


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## deividi

I'm thinking of upgrading Asgard 2 -> Jotunheim (only amp). I know this has been discussed earlier but is there a consensus whether Mojo -> Jot is a good combo or not? vs e.g. a Schiit Multibit DAC paired with Jot?


----------



## alpovs

averageguync said:


> Also it now has a small hiss that I can hear if there is nothing playing. It used to be totally silent with built in dac. I'm using some 20 year old Monster Cable rca cable that are maybe 10 ft long that I had laying around. I ordered a new 3ft acoustic research cable off ebay. And I also bought a Schiit wyrd. Both will be here next week. Is it normal to hear a hiss and could it be from just an old rca?


 
 It looks like you have a ground loop. Modi 2 Multibit doesn't have a ground prong as it is connected through a wall-wart with two prongs only (and there is a transformer inside that galvanically isolates it). Your computer and the Jotunheim do have ground connections. To mitigate the hiss either make sure that your Jotunheim and computer are connected to the same outlet (through a splitter or power bar) or use these or alike 3-to-2 prong "adapters" to power your Jotunheim:
https://www.amazon.com/Coleman-Cable-9901-Grounding-Converter/dp/B002HGUQYK
  
 I doubt new RCA cables will eliminate the hiss unless you are using really bad ones.
  
 EDIT: Just found pretty much the same recommendations in this same thread:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/818323/schiit-jotunheim-review-preview-head-fi-tv/1410#post_12894063


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## AverageGuyNC

All of them are hooked up to the same power bar. It's a 12 outlet belkin that is almost new. I wanted to make sure I had decent protection and it supposedly reduces interference. Would grounding be a problem with it?


----------



## theveterans

deividi said:


> I'm thinking of upgrading Asgard 2 -> Jotunheim (only amp). I know this has been discussed earlier but is there a consensus whether Mojo -> Jot is a good combo or not? vs e.g. a Schiit Multibit DAC paired with Jot?


 
  
 IMO, Mojo -> Jot > Bimby/Mimby -> Jot. I just prefer the warmth of Mojo when paired with neutral Jot while Mimby/Bimby with Jot goes a bit brighter for my tastes.


----------



## tunes

I know there is a big price difference but has anyone compared the Jot to the Trilogy 933 Headphone Amplifier paired with the HEKV2 and Utopia?


----------



## califmike33

I want to try the oppo sonica dac and run it thru the jotunheim and see how that pairing would be with hd650.


----------



## alpovs

Am I the only one to whom it seems that the Jotunheim is basically two Magni 2 Uber's in one case made to work balanced and with an internal power supply? The search of this long thread didn't come up with similar posts.
  
 If you compare pictures of their electrical boards on Schiit's website you can see the same components in the 2 channels of Magni 2 Uber and 4 channels of the Jot: the same single OpAmp for DC servo per couple of channels, 2 transistors per channel typical for Class AB amplifiers, other components and their quantity per channel look the same, only slightly rearranged. There is some additional circuitry to make it work balanced and single-ended, and use DAC and phono cards, but I wonder if the Jotunheim and the Magni 2 Uber are very closely related relatives.
  
 Schiit themselves say the Jot has "the ability to use one side of the topology as a single-ended output, to eliminate the need for summers". Basically, single-ended in, single-ended out it uses only half the circuitry and becomes a Magni 2 Uber.
  
 I tried to compare the specs. Single-ended power outputs are similar but not the same as those of Magni 2 Uber. SNR's are given in different units: unweighted for Magni and A-weighted for Jot. Crosstalks are the same. Other parameters are presented as "less than". Output Impedance: Less than 0.2 ohms for Magni 2 Uber and Output Impedance: Less than 0.1 ohms for Jotunheim. They could both be 0.09 ohm and be the same for both the amps. I am a bit surprised. Don't they know the exact value? Most other amp specs just list the concrete value without "less then". Then, for topology: Magni - "constant feedback through audio band" without specifying voltage or current feedback; Jotunheim - "differential current-feedback topology". These could be very well be the same. No class is listed for Jot while Magni 2 is a Class AB amplifier. Jotunheim also looks like Class AB with its two transistors per channel. I wonder is the specs were written to disguise the similarities. There is nothing wrong if the Magni 2 Uber and Jotunheim use very similar circuitry. I am just curious if anyone else noticed the similarities. Any technical people here?


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## MWSVette

alpovs said:


> Am I the only one to whom it seems that the Jotunheim is basically two Magni 2 Uber's in one case made to work balanced and with an internal power supply? The search of this long thread didn't come up with similar posts.
> 
> If you compare pictures of their electrical boards on Schiit's website you can see the same components in the 2 channels of Magni 2 Uber and 4 channels of the Jot: the same single OpAmp for DC servo per couple of channels, 2 transistors per channel typical for Class AB amplifiers, other components and their quantity per channel look the same, only slightly rearranged. There is some additional circuitry to make it work balanced and single-ended, and use DAC and phono cards, but I wonder if the Jotunheim and the Magni 2 Uber are very closely related relatives.
> 
> ...


 

 The Jot uses Schiit's new proprietary Pivot Point technology.  Making it quite different than the Magni 2 U.
  
 Schiits only Class A is the Asgard, the rest are Class AB...


----------



## alpovs

mwsvette said:


> The Jot uses Schiit's new proprietary Pivot Point technology.  Making it quite different than the Magni 2 U.


 
 Trademarked words mean nothing. "Pivot Point" is not a technical term. To me "Pivot Point" seems to refer to the ability to use only half of the amp for single-ended in-out while other balanced amps use summers. Calling something differently doesn't make it different if it is in fact the same. If it was described differently in technical terms then I could see the point. But I could not find significant differences in technical descriptions.


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## AverageGuyNC

I've never had a Magni but read a review comparing the two and said there was a significant sound difference. But if it's designed by same guy, makes sense that they look pretty similar inside I think?


----------



## MikeW

The reviews suggest higher performance then magni and Asgard closer to mjoliner


----------



## Mikko Peltonen

So, is it just my computer or is there something wrong with the Jotunheim drivers? If my PC is powered and I connect the Jotunheim, I get no sound. Just random spikes of noise. Seems like the Jotunheim needs to be connected via USB before powering on the PC. Also, putting the computer to sleep causes the same problem.
  
 Solutions?


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## Soundsgoodtome

Sounds like maybe your usb ports are going to sleep. You may want to look at your power options and disable the usb power control.





mikko peltonen said:


> So, is it just my computer or is there something wrong with the Jotunheim drivers? If my PC is powered and I connect the Jotunheim, I get no sound. Just random spikes of noise. Seems like the Jotunheim needs to be connected via USB before powering on the PC. Also, putting the computer to sleep causes the same problem.
> 
> Solutions?


----------



## Alchemist007

Yeah found out it was on in my power options. Bloody hell.


----------



## theveterans

soundsgoodtome said:


> Sounds like maybe your usb ports are going to sleep. You may want to look at your power options and disable the usb power control.


 
  
 What if your Windows doesn't have that option and allows only for 1 power plan.
  


 At least I don't have USB disconnection issues though.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Have you tried the fruit mod?


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

It's the page before this i believe, you can set it to high performance but unfortunately default is still sleep enabled.



theveterans said:


> What if your Windows doesn't have that option and allows only for 1 power plan.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Fruit rots. Mac-in-trash


----------



## pephurdur

Hi, been lurking the forums here for quite some time now. This forum has incredible value of information! Finally made an account here in order to try to resolve a question me and my friend has. My friend got Jot+HD600 at the moment, and time has come for him he feels like he wants to invest in a pair of higher end headphones (say $700-1000ish).
  
 So, considering HD650 has been praised for its great synergy with Jotunheim with its darker and "veiled" sound and Jotunheims forwardness etc. Are there any recommendations for higher end headphones out there that just goes extremely well together with Jotunheim like that off HD650? What would be a logical step up from HD650 if you like the HD650? My understanding is that I ought to be looking at the more "laid back", or darker if you will, sounding headphones. We don't live in the States so used headphones are a little harder to come by, but any tips for headphones that would fall down in that price range used are welcome. Right now I have my eyes on LCD2, having heard great things about them, but afaik their latest versions differ from the older ones - would the new ones be good for Jot?
  
 Thanks in advance!


----------



## MattTCG

pephurdur said:


> Hi, been lurking the forums here for quite some time now. This forum has incredible value of information! Finally made an account here in order to try to resolve a question me and my friend has. My friend got Jot+HD600 at the moment, and time has come for him he feels like he wants to invest in a pair of higher end headphones (say $700-1000ish).
> 
> So, considering HD650 has been praised for its great synergy with Jotunheim with its darker and "veiled" sound and Jotunheims forwardness etc. Are there any recommendations for higher end headphones out there that just goes extremely well together with Jotunheim like that off HD650? What would be a logical step up from HD650 if you like the HD650? My understanding is that I ought to be looking at the more "laid back", or darker if you will, sounding headphones. We don't live in the States so used headphones are a little harder to come by, but any tips for headphones that would fall down in that price range used are welcome. Right now I have my eyes on LCD2, having heard great things about them, but afaik their latest versions differ from the older ones - would the new ones be good for Jot?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


 
  
 Welcome to HF! There are some good headphones in that price range. Some of my favorites would be:
  
 MrSpeakers Aeon
  
 Audioquest Nighthawk
  
 Hifiman Edition X (used for your budget). 
  
 Best of luck...
  
 Matt


----------



## MWSVette

pephurdur said:


> Hi, been lurking the forums here for quite some time now. This forum has incredible value of information! Finally made an account here in order to try to resolve a question me and my friend has. My friend got Jot+HD600 at the moment, and time has come for him he feels like he wants to invest in a pair of higher end headphones (say $700-1000ish).
> 
> So, considering HD650 has been praised for its great synergy with Jotunheim with its darker and "veiled" sound and Jotunheims forwardness etc. Are there any recommendations for higher end headphones out there that just goes extremely well together with Jotunheim like that off HD650? What would be a logical step up from HD650 if you like the HD650? My understanding is that I ought to be looking at the more "laid back", or darker if you will, sounding headphones. We don't live in the States so used headphones are a little harder to come by, but any tips for headphones that would fall down in that price range used are welcome. Right now I have my eyes on LCD2, having heard great things about them, but afaik their latest versions differ from the older ones - would the new ones be good for Jot?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


 
 The LDC 2 would be good choice.  I love them with my Jot...


----------



## MWSVette

matttcg said:


> Welcome to HF! There are some good headphones in that price range. Some of my favorites would be:
> 
> MrSpeakers Aeon
> 
> ...


 

 I second the Audioquest Nighthawks...


----------



## earnmyturns

pephurdur said:


> My understanding is that I ought to be looking at the more "laid back", or darker if you will, sounding headphones.


 
 I disagree that the Jot only goes with darker-sounding headphones. I use mine happily with MrSpeakers headphones, first Alpha Primes, and now Ether C Flows, which are tuned to be pretty neutral. I listen to mostly modern jazz, world, baroque, modern classical, it might be different for pop or electronic. If the Aeon's tuning is anywhere close to that of the C Flows, it would for me be a very good Jot pairing candidate. That's why I have a pair on order


----------



## MikeW

M1060 lcd2 killer at 1/3 the price!


----------



## dr cornelius

earnmyturns said:


> I disagree that the Jot only goes with darker-sounding headphones. I use mine happily with MrSpeakers headphones, first Alpha Primes, and now Ether C Flows, which are tuned to be pretty neutral. I listen to mostly modern jazz, world, baroque, modern classical, it might be different for pop or electronic. If the Aeon's tuning is anywhere close to that of the C Flows, it would for me be a very good Jot pairing candidate. That's why I have a pair on order


 

 I agree - I use the Jot with a variety of headphones - some bright, and the sound is always excellent.  Even some of my ‘phones that are a little rolled off upper frequency-wise, don’t suddenly sound bright with the Jot.  Also, I don’t think of the Jot as sounding forward, I’ve always thought of it as more of a “refined” sound...
  
 If headphones sound bright with the Jotunheim, it’s not the Jot’s fault!  A lot of people try HD 800’s with it, and I’m not surprised to hear that they think the sound is too bright...  I’ve heard the 800’s on _Sennheiser’s_ amplifier, and I thought that sound was too bright!


----------



## Mikko Peltonen

soundsgoodtome said:


> Sounds like maybe your usb ports are going to sleep. You may want to look at your power options and disable the usb power control.


 
  
 Perhaps, didn't bother trying. Clearly it should pick up immediately when the power is turned on again or the cable is reattached. This is not the case. Windows recognizes the output device being connected but doesn't start playing.


----------



## pephurdur

Thanks everyone for the replies! Very interesting headphones you gave advice on! The reason I am perhaps a tad hesitant on neutral-bright headphones is because listening to my friends HD600 with Mimby+JOT (XLR), the details and impact of instruments are incredible. However, I can definitely see why some prefer HD650 since they soothe the highs a little bit, allowing perhaps for higher volumes for longer periods of time... And I really enjoy HIGH volume, and whilst I wouldn't describe HD600 being fatiguing, the clarity of these makes me want something just a little, little more darker/soothed treble on higher volume. 
  
 I can of course see many enjoying Jot with headphones that aren't "dark". Factors like how sensitive we are to certain frequencies and what kind of music we listen to are very important. In me and my friends case, distorted guitars and crashing cymbals are part of our daily musical food.


----------



## earnmyturns

pephurdur said:


> However, I can definitely see why some prefer HD650 since they soothe the highs a little bit, allowing perhaps for higher volumes for longer periods of time... And I really enjoy HIGH volume, and whilst I wouldn't describe HD600 being fatiguing, the clarity of these makes me want something just a little, little more darker/soothed treble on higher volume.


 
 Just a thought: when you find the high-frequencies fatiguing at high volume, it may be your inner ear and brain telling you that you are hurting your inner ear with overly loud sound. High-frequency hearing falls off with age anyway, you don't want to make it go away faster by damaging the very delicate inner ear with overly loud sound.


----------



## Soundofmusic

mikew said:


> M1060 lcd2 killer at 1/3 the price!


 
 I've read some reviews describing them as slightly bright? And they seem to have problems with the wooden cups cracking.


----------



## RCBinTN

pephurdur said:


> Thanks everyone for the replies! Very interesting headphones you gave advice on! The reason I am perhaps a tad hesitant on neutral-bright headphones is because listening to my friends HD600 with Mimby+JOT (XLR), the details and impact of instruments are incredible. However, I can definitely see why some prefer HD650 since they soothe the highs a little bit, allowing perhaps for higher volumes for longer periods of time... And I really enjoy HIGH volume, and whilst I wouldn't describe HD600 being fatiguing, the clarity of these makes me want something just a little, little more darker/soothed treble on higher volume.
> 
> I can of course see many enjoying Jot with headphones that aren't "dark". Factors like how sensitive we are to certain frequencies and what kind of music we listen to are very important. In me and my friends case, distorted guitars and crashing cymbals are part of our daily musical food.


 
  
 Just a thought, you may be able to acquire the LCD-X on the Head-Fi forum for around $700-1000.  The X, as well as the LCD-2, benefit from a brighter amplifier that's got power, like the Jot.
 Good luck with the search!
  
 Cheers,
 RCB
  
 ps. Matt has so much experience and good advice...a trusted source for me over the years!


----------



## pephurdur

earnmyturns said:


> Just a thought: when you find the high-frequencies fatiguing at high volume, it may be your inner ear and brain telling you that you are hurting your inner ear with overly loud sound. High-frequency hearing falls off with age anyway, you don't want to make it go away faster by damaging the very delicate inner ear with overly loud sound.


 
 My apologies. "High volume" isn't exactly true and I shouldn't phrase it that way with afterthought. I think I can definitely tell when volume becomes too high. Louder volume levels is more correct (doesn't everyone like that to be honest...?), but then again, I think what I'm craving is something smoother/warmer/darker with Jotunheim than what the HD600 brings to the table at my volume level. A little hard to describe since I'm just an amateur and no "audiophile" by any means. Thanks for the input though! 
  
  
  


rcbintn said:


> Just a thought, you may be able to acquire the LCD-X on the Head-Fi forum for around $700-1000.  The X, as well as the LCD-2, benefit from a brighter amplifier that's got power, like the Jot.
> Good luck with the search!
> 
> Cheers,
> ...


 
  
 Thanks! I will keep my eyes open.


----------



## MikeW

More time listening to the Jot's internal dac with the W4S Recovery in line, it makes me wonder if this implementation is particularly vulnerable to GND Noise and /or dirty usb power. There is such a large difference with this device, it seems like too much. Im really enjoying the JOT's Dac with Recovery. I like it better then my Teradack Chameleon even, witch also saw improvements with the Recovery, but much less so.
  
 With regards to JOT synergy, im sure it will sound excellent with any headphone, once you EQ out the headphones specific problem area's, like the HD800's piercing high's. Little Parametric EQ go's a long way, and it's free!
  
 This one's my favorite, and I especially enjoy the crossfeed.
  
 http://mathaudio.com/
  
 For reference, im using Power conditioner's (PS Audio Duet) , a high end PC, with quality parts(Seasonic X650 PSU), and balanced cables to my LSR305's, with balanced Headphone cable to my D2K, and Foobar, Belkin Gold USB cables, all my gear/settings/power are pretty "solid". Despite all that, the Recovery makes a big difference.
  
 Schitt should make a Wyrd 2.0, with more emphasis on the reclocker, put a FemtoClock in it, and galvanic isolation too, and for good measure a built in LPS! , an Intona + Recovery +LPS in one box, they could call it.....
  
 Dingleberry


----------



## olor1n

I owned the UpTone USB Regen when my Jot with DAC first arrived. The Regen worked wonders with my previous DAC but I couldn't confidently say it did the same for the Jot's DAC. I figured the Jot's DAC was the limiting factor.

I do however, notice a difference between feeding the Jot from my Macbook's USB or from my iPad mini 2 via CCK USB cable. iPad as source is noticeably smoother. My Macbook's USB is a tad gritty and slightly fatiguing in comparison.

I leave my Jot powered on too. It certainly sounds better than when listening to it after no warm up but it also seems more effortless even compared to when its clocked a few hours warm up.


----------



## Traum

Given the USB jitter complains, I wonder if Jason would be able to find room for a S/PDIF input in addition / in place of the USB plug in a future revision...


----------



## MarkF786

traum said:


> Given the USB jitter complains, I wonder if Jason would be able to find room for a S/PDIF input in addition / in place of the USB plug in a future revision...


 

 In another thread, when recently asked about a S/PDIF card for the Jot, Jason's reply was:
  


jason stoddard said:


> It's something we've talked about, but avoided in order to keep the number of stocked variants down.


----------



## MarkF786

My problem with the Jot's USB input is I get intermittent pops that I haven't been able to eliminate despite various troubleshooting - and this is with an iMac, with which I don't have a problem with other DACs.  I thought the problem would go away when I upgraded to a Bimby, but it has the same problem (and they both share the same USB implementation).


----------



## Traum

Ahh... thank you for pointing that out, Mark.

For what it is worth, I would only treat Jason's words as the truth... for the time being. For a very long time, Jason has indicated that they are not a fan of a combined amp / DAC, and look what we have in the form of the Jot now? If they can find a good enough reason to do so -- be it an engineering solution or a business reason -- I'm sure they'll go ahead with it.


----------



## earnmyturns

markf786 said:


> My problem with the Jot's USB input is I get intermittent pops that I haven't been able to eliminate despite various troubleshooting - and this is with an iMac, with which I don't have a problem with other DACs.  I thought the problem would go away when I upgraded to a Bimby, but it has the same problem (and they both share the same USB implementation).


 
 The problem is in your source hardware, software, or cabling, I'm afraid. I've had a Bimby and a Jot (and before that an Asgard 2) fed variously by USB or coax, never any pops or other noises. But then my sources have always been small, dedicated ARM-based Linux streamers (sMS-100, Sonicorbiter SE, microRendu) running MPD or Roon software, with a variety of linear or ultracap power supplies, optionally with a USB>S/PDIF converter (Bel Canto mLink). I can't avoid the feeling that much of the angst about USB audio has to do with using general-purpose computers as sources. General-purpose is market-ese for not especially good for anything


----------



## olor1n

markf786 said:


> My problem with the Jot's USB input is I get intermittent pops that I haven't been able to eliminate despite various troubleshooting - and this is with an iMac, with which I don't have a problem with other DACs.  I thought the problem would go away when I upgraded to a Bimby, but it has the same problem (and they both share the same USB implementation).


 

 When I owned the original Bifrost and Gungnir audio would sometimes degrade to distorted, static screeching. No such issues with other DACs I've owned.


----------



## earnmyturns

mikew said:


> Schitt should make a Wyrd 2.0, with more emphasis on the reclocker, put a FemtoClock in it, and galvanic isolation too, and for good measure a built in LPS! , an Intona + Recovery +LPS in one box, they could call it.....


 
 In another Schiit thread one of the principals has been suggesting that something interesting may be hatching in this space, although if you use "galvanic isolation" in relation to it you might get excommunicated 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My guess, FWIW, is that Schiit multibit DACs are already pretty good to excellent on the signal regeneration front, what's needed is a better way of rejecting electrical noise traveling down the USB cable. What's difficult there is that it's not straightforward to distinguish signal (higher frequencies in the waveform encoding the music bitstream) from noise (high-frequency stray currents from source power and signal circuitry). But there are some hints...


----------



## earnmyturns

olor1n said:


> When I owned the original Bifrost and Gungnir audio would sometimes degrade to distorted, static screeching. No such issues with other DACs I've owned.


 
 The Schiit DACs I own (Yggy and Bimby) are somewhat susceptible to getting confused by plugging and unplugging connectors while they are on, or by too-fast switches between sampling rates from the source. When confused, they treat the source bitstream incorrectly, hence distortion & screeching. Is easily cured by a simple power cycle, and good operating practice. Happened maybe a couple of times with each of my units in situations where I messed up switching connections around.


----------



## MarkF786

earnmyturns said:


> The problem is in your source hardware, software, or cabling...


 
  
 I noticed you have a career in comp sci, so I'm sure you're familiar with troubleshooting; it's a skill I've excelled at in my own long career in the field.
  
 I've repeatedly been trying to troubleshoot this problem, adjusting many different variables to try eliminating the issue, and the one consistent factor is the Schiit's USB Gen 2 interface on both the Jot & Bimby.  Changing any other variable doesn't fix the problem, but if I switch to another USB DAC (four others that I have on hand, and others in the past) the problem doesn't occur.  So granted, the root cause may very well be a combination of factors, part of which could be something unique in my setup (which is pretty darn vanilla, being an iMac), but there's no denying that Schiit's USB implementation is a factor.


----------



## MikeW

olor1n said:


> I owned the UpTone USB Regen when my Jot with DAC first arrived. The Regen worked wonders with my previous DAC but I couldn't confidently say it did the same for the Jot's DAC. I figured the Jot's DAC was the limiting factor.
> 
> I do however, notice a difference between feeding the Jot from my Macbook's USB or from my iPad mini 2 via CCK USB cable. iPad as source is noticeably smoother. My Macbook's USB is a tad gritty and slightly fatiguing in comparison.
> 
> I leave my Jot powered on too. It certainly sounds better than when listening to it after no warm up but it also seems more effortless even compared to when its clocked a few hours warm up.


 
  
 That's interesting, as the Recovery and Regen are very similar devices, performance should be similar. I must have a specific issue with my setup, related to power or motherboard that is specifically addressed by Recovery.


----------



## RiflemanFirst

So I'm currently using my HD598 SEs and HD650s on a Mimby/Vali 2 stack and really like the sound. What differences/improvements can I expect if I were to replace the Vali 2 with the Jotunheim and get a balanced cable for the HD650s?


----------



## earnmyturns

markf786 said:


> I noticed you have a career in comp sci, so I'm sure you're familiar with troubleshooting; it's a skill I've excelled at in my own long career in the field.
> 
> I've repeatedly been trying to troubleshoot this problem, adjusting many different variables to try eliminating the issue, and the one consistent factor is the Schiit's USB Gen 2 interface on both the Jot & Bimby.  Changing any other variable doesn't fix the problem, but if I switch to another USB DAC (four others that I have on hand, and others in the past) the problem doesn't occur.  So granted, the root cause may very well be a combination of factors, part of which could be something unique in my setup (which is pretty darn vanilla, being an iMac), but there's no denying that Schiit's USB implementation is a factor.


 
 Having just ended many frustrating hours of trying to figure out why Roon on my Macbook kept failing to connect to my Roon Core Linux server, to discover after much messing around with routers, switches, Preferences and Library folder contents, logs, and long exchanges with Roon devs, that the problem was that this Mac -- just this Mac among the several I have at home -- had "decided" to block incoming IP requests to Roon in its firewall -- which I had never done explicitly -- I'm now more than familiar -- if I wasn't already -- with the way each Mac behaves as a unique precious child with its peculiar foibles 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 But yes, the Schiit USB 2 audio implementation seems a bit touchier than others I've used. I just feed it from nice Linux boxes, I'm careful with powering down around cable exchanges, and all has been well (so far).


----------



## dr cornelius

markf786 said:


> My problem with the Jot's USB input is I get intermittent pops that I haven't been able to eliminate despite various troubleshooting - and this is with an iMac, with which I don't have a problem with other DACs.  I thought the problem would go away when I upgraded to a Bimby, but it has the same problem (and they both share the same USB implementation).


 

 I noticed that with mine - I have a 2 year old MacBook Pro my and my fix was simply toggling between the internal speaker and the Schiit USB settings in System Prefs...


----------



## piokuro

letmebefrank said:


> I am using the HD650 with a stock cable I re-terminated in 4-pin XLR. It is a fantastic pairing and I wrote several impressions of the combo in this thread. You can buy a Neutrik 4-pin XLR male for $8-$10 and an extra stock 650 cable for $20-$25, use some soldering skills and you're good to go. The HD650 cables the red is right+ and green is left+, copper is negative. To solder the HD650 cables you have to get the wire pretty hot (but not too hot or you will burn up the copper) to melt off the laquer on the wires. You will know its melted off when the solder on the tip of your iron absorbs into the wire. Here is the image I used to solder my XLR on and it worked out great. You dont use the shield ground for the headphone cables.



 



I agree, the 650/6xx sound much better balanced with the jot. And yeah the stock cable is annoying to mod to xlr, definitely requires a little more patience.

Thanks for the pinout info, it was definitely helpful on my cable


----------



## CarlosUnchained

rcbintn said:


> Just a thought, you may be able to acquire the LCD-X on the Head-Fi forum for around $700-1000.  The X, as well as the LCD-2, benefit from a brighter amplifier that's got power, like the Jot.
> Good luck with the search!
> 
> Cheers,
> ...


 
  
  
 IMHO I found more pleasing the LCD-X out of the Lyr 2 than the Jot. Once I tried high power tube amps on them it's hard to come back with solid state.


----------



## Letmebefrank

piokuro said:


> letmebefrank said:
> 
> 
> > I am using the HD650 with a stock cable I re-terminated in 4-pin XLR. It is a fantastic pairing and I wrote several impressions of the combo in this thread. You can buy a Neutrik 4-pin XLR male for $8-$10 and an extra stock 650 cable for $20-$25, use some soldering skills and you're good to go. The HD650 cables the red is right+ and green is left+, copper is negative. To solder the HD650 cables you have to get the wire pretty hot (but not too hot or you will burn up the copper) to melt off the laquer on the wires. You will know its melted off when the solder on the tip of your iron absorbs into the wire. Here is the image I used to solder my XLR on and it worked out great. You dont use the shield ground for the headphone cables.
> ...




Awesome, glad I could help.


----------



## soundman414

Loving my work setup. It goes together with my iMac so well.


----------



## Soundofmusic

olor1n said:


> It's not the Jot that's too bright, it's the headphone. The Jot isn't rolled off at either end of the spectrum, nor does it colour the mids with "warmth" not present in the recording.



After spending a few days with the HD650 and Valhalla 2, finding that combo fatiguing as well and realizing the Valhalla is unsuited for my lower impedance X2, I couldn't resist the urge to go back and pick up the last Jotunheim in stock in my country. 

I then had the chance to try the Jotunheim out with HE-500 and of course my own X2's, and I must say you are spot on with the statement that the Jotunheim is neutral. It sounds great to me with all but the HD650, which I have come to conclude have a sound signature my ears can't get on board with. 

In the HD650 thread there are reports of driver changes and production variances within the same driver versions that make some of them fatiguing, I guess there's a possibility I may have a bad one. 

Anyway, I retract my earlier comment about the Jot being too bright, it's the headphones. 

I'll be keeping my Jotunheim and X2, selling my Valhalla 2 and HD650, and maybe look about for a used set of LCD2-F or something similar.


----------



## EtRec

Has anyone tried the Audioquest NightOwl or NightHawk Carbon with the Jot with internal DAC ?  Thinking of finally getting a end all headphone for myself. Been using the Sen HD650. I like Jazz and classical. Looking for a very comfortable headphone that does not color the music. Love separation. Not a Bass head. Thanks for any input, $700 is a lot of money for me and I don't plan on getting another headphone after this one.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

soundofmusic said:


> After spending a few days with the HD650 and Valhalla 2, finding that combo fatiguing as well and realizing the Valhalla is unsuited for my lower impedance X2, I couldn't resist the urge to go back and pick up the last Jotunheim in stock in my country.
> 
> I then had the chance to try the Jotunheim out with HE-500 and of course my own X2's, and I must say you are spot on with the statement that the Jotunheim is neutral. It sounds great to me with all but the HD650, which I have come to conclude have a sound signature my ears can't get on board with.
> 
> ...




Hd650? Fatiguing? By my ears, It's one of the most euphonic, almost suffocatingly syrupy headphones ever made.


----------



## GearMe

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Hd650? Fatiguing? By my ears, It's one of the most euphonic, almost suffocatingly syrupy headphones ever made.




Just goes to show how we all hear differently...really like it with my Vahalla 2


----------



## alpovs

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Hd650? Fatiguing? By my ears, It's one of the most euphonic, almost suffocatingly syrupy headphones ever made.


 

 If you read his post carefully his HD650 may be a bad one.


----------



## MattTCG

etrec said:


> Has anyone tried the Audioquest NightOwl or NightHawk Carbon with the Jot with internal DAC ?  Thinking of finally getting a end all headphone for myself. Been using the Sen HD650. I like Jazz and classical. Looking for a very comfortable headphone that does not color the music. Love separation. Not a Bass head. Thanks for any input, $700 is a lot of money for me and I don't plan on getting another headphone after this one.


 
  
 First of all, the Jot makes an excellent companion for the NH (and for the 650 for that matter). The "synergy" between the headphone and amp is simply exceptional. I also listen to jazz and classical and often use the NH to listen to this type of music. 
  
 With this being said, I don't think that it's fair to say that the NH is "uncolored" as you say you're looking for. IMO it certainly has an added level of warmth but so does the hd650. For me, the NH is a fair bit better with classical which I wasn't expecting. BUT, my go to headphone for classical is still the hd800 with a little gentle EQ. The Jot with DAC is near perfect with the NH even outperforming AQ's own DFR in terms of synergy to my ears. 
  
 I enjoy the NH and it's in regular rotation for me. My advice is to find an original wood version at half the price (or less) than current NH Carbon. 
  
 Good luck!


----------



## DavidA

matttcg said:


> First of all, the Jot makes an excellent companion for the NH (and for the 650 for that matter). The "synergy" between the headphone and amp is simply exceptional. I also listen to jazz and classical and often use the NH to listen to this type of music.
> 
> With this being said, I don't think that it's fair to say that the NH is "uncolored" as you say you're looking for. IMO it certainly has an added level of warmth but so does the hd650. For me, the NH is a fair bit better with classical which I wasn't expecting. BUT, my go to headphone for classical is still the hd800 with a little gentle EQ. The Jot with DAC is near perfect with the NH even outperforming AQ's own DFR in terms of synergy to my ears.
> 
> ...


 

 ​do you use the Jot with your HD800?  for me it was not good at all.


----------



## MattTCG

davida said:


> ​do you use the Jot with your HD800?  for me it was not good at all.


 
  
 Agreed. Jot does not work for the hd800.


----------



## hutt132

If I use a non-balanced DAC (Mod Multibit) with the Jotunheim, will the balanced output on the amp still sound better than the single-ended output, or does it not make an audible difference since the DAC isn't balanced, too.
  
 I know it would still output more power with the balanced output with a non-balanced DAC, but I'd like to know if having just the amp balanced will sound better than the single-ended output.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Gumby will sound better than Mimby.
 Mimby will sound better than the JotunDAC.


----------



## hutt132

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Gumby will sound better than Mimby.
> Mimby will sound better than the JotunDAC.


 
 I was asking if, even with a non-balanced DAC, if the balanced headphone output would sound better than the single-ended headphone output. (Besides output power, would it sound better)


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

It will.


----------



## cishida

hutt132 said:


> I was asking if, even with a non-balanced DAC, if the balanced headphone output would sound better than the single-ended headphone output. (Besides output power, would it sound better)




Yes, I think the balanced out sounds a bit better (I've only used the jot with the SE input). I assume it is because of the increase in available output power.


----------



## EtRec

Thanks


----------



## EtRec

matttcg said:


> First of all, the Jot makes an excellent companion for the NH (and for the 650 for that matter). The "synergy" between the headphone and amp is simply exceptional. I also listen to jazz and classical and often use the NH to listen to this type of music.
> 
> With this being said, I don't think that it's fair to say that the NH is "uncolored" as you say you're looking for. IMO it certainly has an added level of warmth but so does the hd650. For me, the NH is a fair bit better with classical which I wasn't expecting. BUT, my go to headphone for classical is still the hd800 with a little gentle EQ. The Jot with DAC is near perfect with the NH even outperforming AQ's own DFR in terms of synergy to my ears.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for the help


----------



## Josh Englert

Hi all, new to Head-fi. This tax season I was looking to up my audio game. I am coming from a $40 dollar USB dongle to the Jotunheim for my headphone amp which I recently ordered and I'm waiting for shipment. 
  
 And as far as headphones go I only have one pair, just a KRK KNS-8400 studio can (similar to M50X with less bass). I pre-ordered the MrSpeakers Aeon as my step-up pair for the Jotunheim. 
  
 Can someone comment on excellent pairings with this amp under $1K per headphone? Looking for great sounding cans for the money that will complement the Aeon. 
  
 My personal preferences to music are rock, metal, alternative, RnB, hip hop, dance, etc. I am also a drummer so I like balanced headphones with some bass. 
  
 Started looking at MassDrop offerings, such as the Sennheiser 6XX, the AKG K7XX, the Fostex TH-X00. With my end-game offerings (over $1K) being the MrSpeakers Ether Flow Open and Closed models and possibly ZMF Eikon.
  
 Any other suggestions? Suggestions on great pairings? Been following Z-Reviews on YouTube to get a general idea of the kind of headphones I like.


----------



## Letmebefrank

josh englert said:


> Hi all, new to Head-fi. This tax season I was looking to up my audio game. I am coming from a $40 dollar USB dongle to the Jotunheim for my headphone amp which I recently ordered and I'm waiting for shipment.
> 
> And as far as headphones go I only have one pair, just a KRK KNS-8400 studio can (similar to M50X with less bass). I pre-ordered the MrSpeakers Aeon as my step-up pair for the Jotunheim.
> 
> ...




I love my HD650s on the Jotunheim. Balanced output makes them shine.


----------



## Salvatore

letmebefrank said:


> I love my HD650s on the Jotunheim. Balanced output makes them shine.


 
  
 I have tested both 650s and K702s with Jot and I must say that I definitely prefer the K702 because of the bigger and more airy soundstage. Havent tested them balanced though.


----------



## Letmebefrank

salvatore said:


> I have tested both 650s and K702s with Jot and I must say that I definitely prefer the K702 because of the bigger and more airy soundstage. Havent tested them balanced though.


 
  
 I'm not a soundstage junkie, I like open cans better than closed but that's about as far as my preferences go.


----------



## dsrk

jude said:


> ​
> 
> 
> NOTE:  If you can't see the embedded video above, please *CLICK HERE* to see the video.​
> ...




 


Hi Jude,

I want to use Jotunheim as a DAC/AMP when connected to my desktop and also want to use it an AMP only with my HD650 through X5 3 DAP via line out. If I want to use the balanced out on the AMP, do I have to connect the input from X5 3's line out or 2.5mm balanced out?


----------



## jude

dsrk said:


> Hi Jude,
> 
> I want to use Jotunheim as a DAC/AMP when connected to my desktop and also want to use it an AMP only with my HD650 through X5 3 DAP via line out. If I want to use the balanced out on the AMP, do I have to connect the input from X5 3's line out or 2.5mm balanced out?


 
  
 You can connect to either input on the Jotunheim to use its balanced headphone output, but gain varies depending on the input/output combo. Here is the gain for each possible input/output/gain combo on the Jotunheim:
  


> SE in, SE out, low gain  2
> SE in, SE out, high gain  4.7
> SE in, balanced out, low gain 2.1
> SE in, balanced out, high gain 7.4
> ...


  
 (Thanks to Jason Stoddard for the above gain information.)


----------



## alota

interesting. little difference between se/bal input with bal output


----------



## dsrk

jude said:


> You can connect to either input on the Jotunheim to use its balanced headphone output, but gain varies depending on the input/output combo. Here is the gain for each possible input/output/gain combo on the Jotunheim:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Amazing, thanks a lot. So, there is difference between SE and Balanced inputs when we balanced out in terms of power.


----------



## JoeKickass

If you have >300 ohm headphones, the balanced Jot is more powerful than the Mjolnir 2!
 And almost gives the Ragnarok a run for it's money!
  
 I made this amplifier comparison while I was saving $$ dreaming about what my life would be like with more Schiit:
  

  
  
  
  
  
 I haven't updated it since I got my Modi MB + Jotunheim + HD600 with Balanced cables... my audio has never been this good!


----------



## Rdwng1975

Does anyone have a opinion on this vs project polaris?


----------



## cskippy

I had a limited listening experience to Polaris at the last AZ meet, so take this with a huge grain of kosher salt...
  
 Polaris has balls for a solid state amp, like some good tube saturation and warmth.  Most will appreciate this for brighter cans but neutral or dark cans will start to sound muddy.  There is excellent punch as it puts out a ton of power no matter the headphones impedance.  
  
 I think staging was about the same between them but with Polaris you were sitting a couple more rows back compared to Jot, which is relatively forward sounding.  I felt like some details were lost with Polaris as it was more focused on macrodynamics so microdynamics took a hit.  
  
 It is an excellent amp for the money, and give a ton of tuning options.  I feel that Jot is more transparent, and if run with a tube pre, takes the cake.


----------



## chicken beer

I have a question about the Jotunheim/DAC module: can you use the unit as a DAC only, by inputing from DAC usb, and outputing from the pre-out, to use the Jotunheim module as a DAC only, and connect to another amp?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## CarlosUnchained

chicken beer said:


> I have a question about the Jotunheim/DAC module: can you use the unit as a DAC only, by inputing from DAC usb, and outputing from the pre-out, to use the Jotunheim module as a DAC only, and connect to another DAC?
> 
> Thanks!


 

 Correct me if I'm wrong, the Jot will act as a preamp pumping up the voltaje of the signal, but that's all. Not direct DAC out, but wouldn't make difference.


----------



## chicken beer

carlosunchained said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, the Jot will act as a preamp pumping up the voltaje of the signal, but that's all. Not direct DAC out, but wouldn't make difference.


 
 Sorry, it was my typo, I was meaning, was the DAC module in Jotunheim (supposing that the owner bought the DAC module with the Jotunheim), could I connect another amp to Jotunheim's DAC module by any way?
  
 That would make the $100 DAC module a very versatile DAC unit~


----------



## cskippy

You would be using the Jot as a preamp for the connected amp.  The Jot's DAC will convert the digital to analog and it will output analog, what you do with that signal is up to you.


----------



## dsrk

joekickass said:


> If you have >300 ohm headphones, the balanced Jot is more powerful than the Mjolnir 2!
> And almost gives the Ragnarok a run for it's money!
> 
> I made this amplifier comparison while I was saving $$ dreaming about what my life would be like with more Schiit:
> ...


 
  
 Excellent, this is very helpful.....Thanks


----------



## windcar

carlosunchained said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, the Jot will act as a preamp pumping up the voltaje of the signal, but that's all. Not direct DAC out, but wouldn't make difference.


 
 It will make a difference. The preamp will still take the characteristic of the Jot, i.e. bright sounding. If the preamp is connected to a regular amp, the end sound will take the combination of all the shortcomings of the Jot and the regular amp, and will result in lesser micro details. I wouldn't recommend to use it as a standalone DAC.


----------



## MikeW

Heads up 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00018MSNI/ref=dra_a_rv_mr_hn_xx_P3115_200?tag=dradisplay-20&ascsubtag=6cb807b882852ff0fbd64f4502b63eb8_CT

Screaming deal on 650s at time of writing 315$


----------



## RainHeaven

Hello,
  
 I have a pair of Mrspeakers Ether C and I would like to upgrade DAC/AMP. Would the Jotunheim (amp only) be a good pairing? I read earlier that its good with the Ether C Flow (different but should be pretty similar). Also, any recommendations for what DAC to pair with the Jotunheim ($600 max).


----------



## jimmers

Bifrost Multibit if you like a matched stack (I do) Modi multibit if you don't care and prefer spending less


----------



## GearMe

rainheaven said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have a pair of Mrspeakers Ether C and I would like to upgrade DAC/AMP. Would the Jotunheim (amp only) be a good pairing? I read earlier that its good with the Ether C Flow (different but should be pretty similar). Also, any recommendations for what DAC to pair with the Jotunheim ($600 max).



If you're swapping out the Project Ember, then I'd upgrade the Bifrost. If you're adding a second listening station I'd buy a Mimby. You'll be able to determine if you prefer multi-bit and then later on you can upgrade the Bifrost if you do like it more.


----------



## Share2Care

Firing up my Jot for rhe first time... 4 headphones ready, went for the blanced DAC for main audio source, then onto RCA to 3.5mm...RCA to RCA connection... Bring it on! 

Wish me luck! Very exciting... Rather Moist!


----------



## alota

the first thing i would say about the jotunheim with mojo like dac is UNBELIEVABLE but i want to delve a little


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

joekickass said:


> If you have >300 ohm headphones, the balanced Jot is more powerful than the Mjolnir 2!
> And almost gives the Ragnarok a run for it's money!
> 
> I made this amplifier comparison while I was saving $$ dreaming about what my life would be like with more Schiit:
> ...


 

 its money* 
  
 But with Sennheiser's offerings, the issue of power isn't really central. I never listen to HD800 or HD600 on high gain out of MJ2. Vali 1 drives HD800 plenty loud (and extremely well, I might add). The question is much more about pairing. (Insert Sonarworks asterisk.)


----------



## AverageGuyNC

alota said:


> the first thing i would say about the jotunheim with mojo like dac is UNBELIEVABLE but i want to delve a little


 

 ​You like the mojo/jotunheim pairing? I've been using the modi mb at first but wanted to try the mojo with it and picked one up. I have a 3.5 to rca on the way to hook it up tomorrow. Cant wait!


----------



## alota

averageguync said:


> ​You like the mojo/jotunheim pairing? I've been using the modi mb at first but wanted to try the mojo with it and picked one up. I have a 3.5 to rca on the way to hook it up tomorrow. Cant wait!



From the first impression say yes.
Seems to me that the internal dac is the bottleneck and seems to me that jot is quite neutral because the sound is like the mojo alone


----------



## FLTWS

On the power and loudness subject, a side anecdote; 
  
 I was running some A, B, C, D, listening tests with my 4 HP amps (see my sig) and my new Utopia with DanaCable LR aftermarket cable. I bought a 3 meter length with a 4 Pin balanced connector as well as a 1 meter length with a 4 Pin female on one end and a standard ¼ inch plug on the other so I can use it with my home theater as well as audition any amp whether it’s a balanced design or not.
  
 After carefully matching the volume on all 4 to within plus or minus 1.5db of 60db with my sound level meter I started listening with my usual evaluation CD’s playing a track at a time in succession on each amp with balanced output. One of the discs was recorded at a significantly higher level  than  the preceding discs used and instead of resetting and re-matching the volume levels again I figured I’d just use the SE adapter knowing the volume would automatically drop along with the voltage on SE outputs. I note that I always run all my amps at their respective low gain settings and rarely push the volume knobs to more than 11 o'clock, even at that point it's too loud for me in most cases depending on the level of the recording.
  
 It turned out that my Jots’ SE was significantly louder than the SE out on the other 3 (compared to the Balanced Out) even though I carefully volume matched all 4 amps before the session began using the balanced outputs on each amp. The Jot’s SE was almost as loud as its balanced output and sounded very good and better than the other SE outs on the other amps, but they were at a lower volume level which does change one’s perception. I went back, rechecked everything, and ran a test with a Pink Noise test signal on all 4 and recorded the results. I did this 3 times in succession just to be certain.
  
 Decibels recorded with Utopia and sound level meter:
                   SE            BAL
 RAG            52             59
 JOT            *57*             59
 MJ2            52             59
 HA1            52             59
  
 If I remember  correctly I read something (Jason most likely posted***) about Schiit doing some refining of the SE output circuit (or maybe the input side) in the Jot to make it closer in performance to the balanced output. And 5db is certainly a hearable difference in sound level and in fact made it hard for me to hear much, if any, difference between the SE and balanced outs on the Jot, but I haven’t spent much time as yet comparing the Jots two HP outputs to each other. But the Jots SE out definitely sounded better than the SE outs on the other three. Just a matter of volume level, perhaps?
  
 My results do tie in nicely with what Jude posted;
  
 "You can connect to either input on the Jotunheim to use its balanced headphone output, but gain varies depending on the input/output combo. Here is the gain for each possible input/output/gain combo on the Jotunheim:
  


> *SE in, SE out, low gain 2*
> SE in, SE out, high gain  4.7
> *SE in, balanced out, low gain 2.1*
> SE in, balanced out, high gain 7.4
> ...


  
 (Thanks to Jason Stoddard for the above gain information.)"
  
 FWIW I thought I’d pass this on.
  
 *** Found it on Schiit's website product info; "Jotunheim's gain stage is a unique, inherently balanced, fully discrete current feedback topology that provides both balanced and single-ended output without the need for splitters or summers."


----------



## andrejc

So is it safe to say that any/all HPs should sound slightly better trough a balanced cable? 
I have a Denon D7200 HPs which came with a 7N Copper single ended cable and am considering a 7N balanced one made by Beyerdynamic for $150.
Should I go for it? 

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


----------



## FLTWS

andrejc said:


> So is it safe to say that any/all HPs should sound slightly better trough a balanced cable?
> I have a Denon D7200 HPs which came with a 7N Copper single ended cable and am considering a 7N balanced one made by Beyerdynamic for $150.
> Should I go for it?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


 
  
 For every listener who says yes you'll find one that says no. There are no absolutes in this hobby. But, if $150.00 does not overly bother your wallet, go ahead and find out for yourself. That's what I've been doing for the past year since I got into higher end headphones and it's a part of the fun(?) of being an audiophile. Nothing is more satisfying than coming to your own conclusion because it will be the absolutely correct conclusion for you. Just be prepared to give the comparison process the time it requires. Then you can join either the "yes" or "no" contingent with confidence.
  
 PS; I prefer balanced.


----------



## alota

andrejc said:


> So is it safe to say that any/all HPs should sound slightly better trough a balanced cable?
> I have a Denon D7200 HPs which came with a 7N Copper single ended cable and am considering a 7N balanced one made by Beyerdynamic for $150.
> Should I go for it?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


 
 no. depends case for case. in the past i was balanced maniac(hp, sources, amplifiers)but in certain cases does not compensate. with my  stuffs, i had a truly miracle, in balanced mode, with the grado hf-2(with moon audio black dragon)but especially with the jvc dx-1000(stock cable). this headphone was totally uncoordinated. in balanced mode, i have listened the best mid presentation with fast and tight bass


----------



## Vigrith

andrejc said:


> So is it safe to say that any/all HPs should sound slightly better trough a balanced cable?
> I have a Denon D7200 HPs which came with a 7N Copper single ended cable and am considering a 7N balanced one made by Beyerdynamic for $150.
> Should I go for it?


 
  
 I have personally not experienced nor have I ever spoken with anyone who felt like balanced made their headphones sound worse - take that as you will, I'm sure there have been instances where that's been the case but from my personal experience (reading, talking, as well as personal), I find those should be infinitesimal compared to the cases where there's been improvements (if nowhere else then just in the volume gain department).


----------



## andrejc

]I thought that it depends on the amp and  not as much on the HPs. 
If the amp has a better balanced out compare to its single out, any HPs in balanced mode would sound a bit better.
It should apply the other way as well, if the amp is optimized for the sine out it should sound better that way. Or am I mistaken here? 

I assumed that was the case with the balanced out as opposed to the single with the Jot as well.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


----------



## Vigrith

andrejc said:


> ]I thought that it depends on the amp and  not as much on the HPs.
> If the amp has a better balanced out compare to its single out, any HPs in balanced mode would sound a bit better.
> It should apply the other way as well, if the amp is optimized for the sine out it should sound better that way. Or am I mistaken here?
> 
> I assumed that was the case with the balanced out as opposed to the single with the Jot as well.


 
  
 I mean... Yea, if one output is better implemented or of better quality than the other is somehow then I assume the one that's done well will perform the best - however, why on earth would someone deliberately make their balanced output worse than their SE? That defeats the whole point. The reverse sort of happened with both the Mjolnir 2 and the Cavalli Liquid Carbon; their SE outs were not super great in their first iterations (Cavalli tried to fix that for their second run of the LC) as they were both optimised and geared toward being balanced amplifiers with the 1/4" only being there for convenience's sake.
  
 So to answer your question far as the Jotunheim goes specifically, far as I've experienced and as far as I know both outputs should be of equivalent quality, the only benefits being provided by the balanced connection rather than one being inherently "better" (read: better implemented, etc) than the other. That's the way it should be.


----------



## hutt132

I find the volume knob on my Jot to be a little disappointing. It's hard to do fine volume adjustments as the knob isn't really smooth. If I want to move it a smidge, it takes a bit to overcome the initial friction, which causes it to jump up or down instead of a nice smooth adjustment.


----------



## Vigrith

hutt132 said:


> I find the volume knob on my Jot to be a little disappointing. It's hard to do fine volume adjustments as the knob isn't really smooth. If I want to move it a smidge, it takes a bit to overcome the initial friction, which causes it to jump up or down instead of a nice smooth adjustment.


 
  
 I actually felt the exact same way at first - is your unit very new by any chance? After about a week of steady use my knob became almost completely smooth, I don't know if that's everyone's experience but it definitely was mine; it's still a little bit hard to overcome the initial friction but it's gotten way better to the point where it no longer bothers me.


----------



## hutt132

vigrith said:


> I actually felt the exact same way at first - is your unit very new by any chance? After about a week of steady use my knob became almost completely smooth, I don't know if that's everyone's experience but it definitely was mine; it's still a little bit hard to overcome the initial friction but it's gotten way better to the point where it no longer bothers me.


 
 I bought it used the other day, and the previous owner had it for a month. Not sure how much he used the knob. Hopefully it gets better over time.


----------



## Soundofmusic

Knob burn-in, the newest hype


----------



## cskippy

Lol there is a physical change though with use as there is friction when the knob turns, and the friction will lessen and smooth out as it is used.  Same reason Deoxit is used on pots periodically and they are turned hundreds of times to lubricate.


----------



## Cruxiaer

Ordered my Jotunheim w DAC almost a month ago (25th Feb) from a local distro and still waiting for it  Can't wait!


----------



## Tuneslover

hutt132 said:


> I find the volume knob on my Jot to be a little disappointing. It's hard to do fine volume adjustments as the knob isn't really smooth. If I want to move it a smidge, it takes a bit to overcome the initial friction, which causes it to jump up or down instead of a nice smooth adjustment.


 
 I find that the volume control on my Vail2 (as well as my previously owned Magni & Magni2U) to be kind of weak too.  I find that making a small volume adjustment doesn't really seem to generate any change in volume.  Instead you need to turn it quite a bit before it registers a noticeable volume changed and then it's too loud so you have to back it off to a desired level.  The Jot volume control is more sensitive and easier to dial in though.  My Lake People G109s volume control is superb...that's the way to implement it.


----------



## Voxata

I've had no issues with volume myself. Works well as it should.


----------



## MWSVette

I really like the pot on the Jot.  It works well for me...


----------



## alota

the pot is alps blue velvet that is really good


----------



## koover

Good morning/afternoon or evening 
First post here as I'm a new member, today as a matter of fact. Be gentle.
Firstly this is all new to me so I'll get that out first because I'm not going to BS anyone. Talk to me as if I'm a very very simple man.
Im looking for an amp specifically for home theater usage. Blurays. This amp looks great for the money and some good people on another site have recommended this particular amp. It'll pair with my senn's 650's and an oppo 93. 
Maybe something is mentioned in the 200+ pages in this thread so I apologize if this has been asked already.
I can't find a thing anywhere in any forum/thread/site, that gives an opinion or review for movie watching with this amp. I would be so appreciative if any feedback and/or opinion could be offered up by the fine folks in this thread. 
I want to make a solid decision based off the opinions of you guys. I can't test drive this baby out so my purchase will be strictly based off of opinions and member ownership of this amp.
Cheers.


----------



## sludgeogre

koover said:


> Good morning/afternoon or evening
> First post here as I'm a new member, today as a matter of fact. Be gentle.
> Firstly this is all new to me so I'll get that out first because I'm not going to BS anyone. Talk to me as if I'm a very very simple man.
> Im looking for an amp specifically for home theater usage. Blurays. This amp looks great for the money and some good people on another site have recommended this particular amp. It'll pair with my senn's 650's and an oppo 93.
> ...


 
 I don't own one yet, but I'm a huge HT fan and used to wear closed headphones at night (now that I have a dedicated theater I don't need to). I would jump on the Jot for sure. I used a Magni for a while for movies and it was really great, the Jot is a massive improvement in topology and power. It has plenty of power for great movie dynamics. You really can't find another amp even close to it in power for the money, so yes, even though you are new, you really spotted the ideal choice for an amp for movie viewing over headphones. Use the XLR outputs on your Oppo to the Jot and I'm sure you're going to be more than amazed. I also think it will likely pair really well with the 650 since they have that old reputation of being a little veiled. The Jot apparently has a slightly bright presentation and this will likely liven up the 650's a bit for you.

 Also go buy a balanced cable for your 650's so you can extract the most power out of the Jot for them. I love Forza Audioworks cables.


----------



## koover

Thanks. I appreciate the confirmation. I'll Definitely upgrade the cables. I'll need an extention too.
I've also got a dedicated HT but with the wife now working overnight and bed at 6pm, it's headphones for me a lot of the time. Running cans through the AVR just isn't doing it for me.


----------



## lentoviolento

Slodge ogre is right. Jot is the schiit for movie watching


----------



## koover

What type of cable upgrade specifically do you recommend? Best for the money.
Also on the Jot, I'm not sure what voltage is needed as I have 2 choices and in chose the 115 Volts. Tells you just what kind of a noob I am.


----------



## jimmers

koover said:


> ...
> Also on the Jot, I'm not sure what voltage is needed as I have 2 choices and in chose the 115 Volts. Tells you just what kind of a noob I am.


 
 Don't understand why "noob", depends on where are you living.


----------



## sludgeogre

koover said:


> What type of cable upgrade specifically do you recommend? Best for the money.
> Also on the Jot, I'm not sure what voltage is needed as I have 2 choices and in chose the 115 Volts. Tells you just what kind of a noob I am.


 
 The best cable, hands down, for the money: http://forzaaudioworks.com/en/product.php?id_product=81
  
 If you want to customize the length just send them an email. Matt is fantastic to work with and makes a high quality, sturdy product that is a joy to use and look at. It also sounds great.

 Also, you always want 115V for American use.


----------



## DavidA

koover said:


> What type of cable upgrade specifically do you recommend? Best for the money.
> Also on the Jot, I'm not sure what voltage is needed as I have 2 choices and in chose the 115 Volts. Tells you just what kind of a noob I am.


 
 Do some quick testing on cables to see if you are special and can hear the difference.  As others in various thread have noted a new expensive cable always solves an issue, if the sound is too warm the new $$$$ cable tightened up the bass and gave it better definition, treble too hot, the new cable brought it under control, you never hear of a bad result with a cable change, why, someone needs to justify to them selves that they spend money for nothing.  If anything do yourself a favor and test the cable, have someone change the cable and see if you can notice the difference, if you do then the change would be worthwhile to you, if you can't notice any difference then move on and use the money for more music, another headphone, an amp, or a DAC, gear more likely to have an effect on the sound.


----------



## sludgeogre

davida said:


> Do some quick testing on cables to see if you are special and can hear the difference.  As others in various thread have noted a new expensive cable always solves an issue, if the sound is too warm the new $$$$ cable tightened up the bass and gave it better definition, treble too hot, the new cable brought it under control, you never hear of a bad result with a cable change, why, someone needs to justify to them selves that they spend money for nothing.  If anything do yourself a favor and test the cable, have someone change the cable and see if you can notice the difference, if you do then the change would be worthwhile to you, if you can't notice any difference then move on and use the money for more music, another headphone, an amp, or a DAC, gear more likely to have an effect on the sound.


 
 I don't really disagree with this, I just find that a lot of stock cables suck now. My LCD-2 cable was too long, really thin, and a strange texture that didn't feel nice on my skin, and it always kinked up all over the place, and I was getting little pieces of it falling off after a year of use. Others I've found to just be way too cheap and flimsy. Forza's copper cables are pretty reasonably priced and they feel amazing. They never kink up because of the braid he does, they just work so well and they make the headphones look even more beautiful. I would say there's maybe a 1-5% improvement in sound, but it's just minor nuance. 99% of the benefit for me with cables is simply ergonomics.


----------



## hutt132

How hot should the Jot get? Mine gets pretty hot to the touch, and even the volume knob gets pretty warm.


----------



## sludgeogre

hutt132 said:


> How hot should the Jot get? Mine gets pretty hot to the touch, and even the volume knob gets pretty warm.


 
 That is normal for all of Schiit's designs. Class A stuff gets warm, and even Pivot Point can apparently get a bit toasty. That should be expected when it can output as much power as it does.


----------



## hutt132

sludgeogre said:


> That is normal for all of Schiit's designs. Class A stuff gets warm, and even Pivot Point can apparently get a bit toasty. That should be expected when it can output as much power as it does.


 
 Didn't know the Jot was a Class A amp.


----------



## alpovs

hutt132 said:


> Didn't know the Jot was a Class A amp.


 

 It's not.


----------



## ProtegeManiac

sludgeogre said:


> That is normal for all of Schiit's designs. Class A stuff gets warm, and even Pivot Point can apparently get a bit toasty. That should be expected when it can output as much power as it does.


 
  
 Jotunheim is A/B. Drive it hard and you go past the crossover point. If it gets that hot that has more to do with how many more components are under there running a balanced circuit vs having a single-ended Class A/B circuit.


----------



## joeexp

sludgeogre said:


> The best cable, hands down, for the money: http://forzaaudioworks.com/en/product.php?id_product=81
> 
> If you want to customize the length just send them an email. Matt is fantastic to work with and makes a high quality, sturdy product that is a joy to use and look at. It also sounds great.
> 
> Also, you always want 115V for American use.


 

 Do you work for them??
 What a none-statement. ''best cable, hands down, for the money" ///
  
 - Compared to what?
 - Based on the fact that you don't even have a Jot?


----------



## koover

Deleted post. 
 I'll research how to delete a post the correct way. Sorry guys.


----------



## koover

jimmers said:


> Don't understand why "noob", depends on where are you living.


 
 Yeah, you're right. It was just a simple momentary lapse of reasoning. Silly question so I stand corrected.


----------



## koover

sludgeogre said:


> The best cable, hands down, for the money: http://forzaaudioworks.com/en/product.php?id_product=81
> 
> If you want to customize the length just send them an email. Matt is fantastic to work with and makes a high quality, sturdy product that is a joy to use and look at. It also sounds great.
> 
> Also, you always want 115V for American use.


 
 Thank you.Yeah, don't know what I was thinking about the Voltage. It HAS to be 115V in the states. 
 As for the upgraded cables, I already checked out what you suggested and they look good.
 I'm seeing this topic can get quite heated with varying opinions on upgrading of cables. Well the way I look at it, it 's no biggie as logic tells me (and it could be flawed) that any upgrade will make some type of difference in sound. If not?...well then I have a nice new set of custom cables (proper length too) and I won't have to worry about a male to female plug extension cable either.
 As a side-note, (I posted in another thread) I had a ton of rewards points from one of my credit cards and they offered up the Sony MDR-1A cans for a descent amount of points. So I pulled the plug on them. Really interested in how they'll pair with the Jot as they're pretty bass heavy.
 I appreciate the time and words bro!


----------



## Letmebefrank

I highly recommend re-terminating the stock hd650 cable to 4 pin xlr for the Jotunheim if you want to try a balanced cable. IMO the forza, cardas, and other cables that cost $100+ aren't worth the money if you purely want better sound, as the stock hd650 cable is really good. Personally I have an Impact Audio cable and while it looks and feels fantastic, it made no difference in sound. I'm going to be making my own custom braided HD650 cable here soon, but only for the looks and ergonomics.


----------



## koover

davida said:


> Do some quick testing on cables to see if you are special and can hear the difference.  As others in various thread have noted a new expensive cable always solves an issue, if the sound is too warm the new $$$$ cable tightened up the bass and gave it better definition, treble too hot, the new cable brought it under control, you never hear of a bad result with a cable change, why, someone needs to justify to them selves that they spend money for nothing.  If anything do yourself a favor and test the cable, have someone change the cable and see if you can notice the difference, if you do then the change would be worthwhile to you, if you can't notice any difference then move on and use the money for more music, another headphone, an amp, or a DAC, gear more likely to have an effect on the sound.


 
 Good advice. I appreciate your feedback. It's amazing the varying opinions on this site to upgrade or not to upgrade cables.


----------



## koover

letmebefrank said:


> I highly recommend re-terminating the stock hd650 cable to 4 pin xlr for the Jotunheim if you want to try a balanced cable. IMO the forza, cardas, and other cables that cost $100+ aren't worth the money if you purely want better sound, as the stock hd650 cable is really good. Personally I have an Impact Audio cable and while it looks and feels fantastic, it made no difference in sound. I'm going to be making my own custom braided HD650 cable here soon, but only for the looks and ergonomics.


 
 That's good to know that the stock cables in your opinion (along with many others) are good. It really sucks to be a noob not knowing any of this stuff. I'm just trying to make good decisions based off everyone's recommendations/opinions without "wasting" a bunch of money on needless upgrades. 
 And yes, I've read exactly what you're advising about swapping out the stock cable for the 4 pin xlr for the Jot. THAT seems the way I should go seeing I'm going to have this amp in a few weeks. I'm extremely stoked!!
 I appreciate your time to respond back to my questions.


----------



## AverageGuyNC

If you watch z reviews on YouTube, he has a video titled "snake oil" that he did a week or two ago. He talks about how ridiculous some of it has gotten, like a $15,000 power cable. Good stuff


----------



## sludgeogre

joeexp said:


> Do you work for them??
> What a none-statement. ''best cable, hands down, fro the money" ///
> 
> - Compared to what?
> - Based on the fact that you don't even have a Jot?


 
 Woah dude, calm down, sorry for the hyperbole, I've just been very happy with my Forza cables. They don't claim to improve every facet of sound, but they feel and look amazing while only being about 200 bucks for a great cable, so compared to other cables in the category at and above that price point, it's a great value. When recommending a cable I shouldn't have to own the amp or headphone to recommend one, it's mostly about ergonomics, looks, and value to me with cables. 
  
 I guess I'll just leave this thread, then.


----------



## AverageGuyNC

sludgeogre said:


> Woah dude, calm down, sorry for the hyperbole, I've just been very happy with my Forza cables. They don't claim to improve every facet of sound, but they feel and look amazing while only being about 200 bucks for a great cable, so compared to other cables in the category at and above that price point, it's a great value. When recommending a cable I shouldn't have to own the amp or headphone to recommend one, it's mostly about ergonomics, looks, and value to me with cables.
> 
> I guess I'll just leave this thread, then.




Cables can be a touchy subject to some. Mainly because of the crazy claims by some sellers that promise it to solve every problem while they make a ton of money off selling them. But you stated it feels like a great quality cable and looks better. Hard for anyone to deny that.


----------



## alota

From my experience FAW cables are really good but not oriented to audiophile that likes to spend a lot of money


----------



## Tuneslover

koover said:


> That's good to know that the stock cables in your opinion (along with many others) are good. It really sucks to be a noob not knowing any of this stuff. I'm just trying to make good decisions based off everyone's recommendations/opinions without "wasting" a bunch of money on needless upgrades.
> And yes, I've read exactly what you're advising about swapping out the stock cable for the 4 pin xlr for the Jot. THAT seems the way I should go seeing I'm going to have this amp in a few weeks. I'm extremely stoked!!
> I appreciate your time to respond back to my questions.


 
 I bought a USED "fancy" cable (so it wasn't too expensive) and found that I still preferred the stock cable.  I ended up selling that cable and converted my stock cable to XLR when I got the Jot.  If you do decide to re-terminate your stock cable I would suggest that you simply cut the stock cable about 8" - 12" from the plug end and terminate the stock cable end with a male 4 pin XLR and the short piece with a female 4 pin XLR.  That way you'll have a Balanced-to-SE adaptor for your HD650's in case you have any other SE amps.


----------



## MikeW

Im pretty good with a soldering iron, and i've made custom cables before, i've never reterminated the stock 650 cable though, I heard the wires are tiny and the copper is varnished. I was going to give it a shot, but now im not sure it's worth the trouble. This cable looks interesting
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/112280167578?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 if it sounds at least as good as the stock cable while being balanced, at that price, seems like a no brainer.
  
 Edit: i'd like to reinforce, that im enjoying the Jot Internal dac alot more now, I really feel like you need a regen/wyrd/recovery type device with this dac, I think alot of people are listening to it straight and they are missing out. It really transformed mine... rather dramatically. Unfortunately, for the price of the Dac card (100$) and a Regen (100 used), you could damn near buy a mimby, witch i've yet to hear, of course, you'd probably want a Regen to go with the mimby anyways, so there is that.
  
 Im actually using a W4S Recovery and an Ifi Ipower with mine. Both improved the sound, the W4S was dramatic, the Ifi Ipower was less so, but noticeable. The dac is USB powered, so anyway you can improve that power delivery, it will yield benefits. This is more obvious on this particular Schiit implementation, I don't know if any of their other DAC products are USB Powered. (maybe fulla?) I also taped the usb +5v power pin going from the PC to the Recovery (the 6" tail going from recovery to DAC is still providing +5V for the DAC, post recovery)
  
 The main improvements heard with the addition of the Recovery and Ifipower, were just a more pleasing, less fatiguing sound, particularly with regard to high end energy. I was often EQ'ing the high end to deal with a fatiguing sound. Bass also improved, and so did resolution, everything became warmer, and I felt like I could actually hear the signature AKM "Velvet" sound. The Recovery made the music toe-tapping, and pleasant, and the Ipower reinforced bass and top end resolution, with not much change to the middle.
  
 If anything this proves, there's much room for improvement in Schiits' USB GEN 2 implementation, or perhaps said implementation works better when the dac's not relying on USB +5V.
  
 Im a skeptic too, I don't believe in voodoo. And while impossible to eliminate expectation bias, I was ready to try the W4S Recovery and not like it, and sell it. That would not have been a problem for me.


----------



## alpovs

What are you feeding it with? A Mac by any chance?


----------



## Tuneslover

mikew said:


> Im pretty good with a soldering iron, and i've made custom cables before, i've never reterminated the stock 650 cable though, I heard the wires are tiny and the copper is varnished.






If you're good with a soldering iron you shouldn't have any problem.  Yes the wire is tiny and is coated but take your time and melt off the coating and all will be fine.  All you need is 1 male and 1 female 4 pin XLR connector (to also make the additional XLR to SE adaptor).  The whole project should cost you no more than $15.


----------



## MikeW

nah im on a PC, pretty good pc with an Asus Enthusiast motherboard, 6700k, 32gb ram, and a seasonic X650 PSU.. everything's pretty top notch.


----------



## alpovs

I couldn't see your signature on mobile. I asked because Macs are known for noisy USB ports, especially their laptops. But it's not your case.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Mike is on the record taking a pretty decent Schiit on USB whenever the question is asked. If you can get Mimby or Bimby, optical will make you very happy.


----------



## earnmyturns

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Mike is on the record taking a pretty decent Schiit on USB whenever the question is asked. If you can get Mimby or Bimby, optical will make you very happy.


 
 I've used sources with optical out worse than USB out. Source-to-DAC is a system, no better than its worst component.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

earnmyturns said:


> I've used sources with optical out worse than USB out. Source-to-DAC is a system, no better than its worst component.


 

 Allow me to speak more precisely.
  
 In the case of my early 2009 iMac, Bimby, and some $6 optical cable off amazon, moving from USB to optical removed a perceptible degree of blur from the music. To my ears, the sound quality was distinctly improved. The improvement was not night-and-day by any means, but it was palpable. For the money, to users of a that chain, I would recommend it unhesitatingly.


----------



## earnmyturns

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Allow me to speak more precisely.
> 
> In the case of my early 2009 iMac, Bimby, and some $6 optical cable off amazon, moving from USB to optical removed a perceptible degree of blur from the music. To my ears, the sound quality was distinctly improved. The improvement was not night-and-day by any means, but it was palpable. For the money, to users of a that chain, I would recommend it unhesitatingly.


 
 Thanks for the specifics, makes sense. The iMac USB port is likely to push some electrical noise into the Bimby, while the optical connection is immune to electrical noise. Some optical sources have lots of jitter, but your observations suggest that the iMac is good enough in that respect to work well with the Bimby.


----------



## AverageGuyNC

I have a 3 or 4 year old Dell running USB to mimby to jotunheim. There was some noise when there wasn't any audio playin at first (when mimby was new), but it has nearly disappeared. It was totally silent when the USB was going straight to the jotunheim. Guess it just needed to break in.

How much difference does a pc make? I mean, are there audio oriented motherboards? Not referring to sound cards or programs. An i5 and 8gb ram should be plenty to play music I think.


----------



## earnmyturns

averageguync said:


> How much difference does a pc make? I mean, are there audio oriented motherboards? Not referring to sound cards or programs. An i5 and 8gb ram should be plenty to play music I think.


 
 There are two main ways a PC can matter. On the digital side, there are lots of software and driver settings that can affect the bit stream from the PC to the DAC. On the electrical side, different PCs or PC workloads inject different kinds of electrical noise into the USB wire that affect the DAC in different ways. For those reasons, I don't use PCs or Macs to drive my DACs directly. Instead, I use specialized low-power devices that take digital music streams via Ethernet and convert them to USB audio (see my sig). Not cheap, but they work very well in my situation, providing very good sound quality to two separate systems from a single music server.


----------



## Voxata

mikew said:


> nah im on a PC, pretty good pc with an Asus Enthusiast motherboard, 6700k, 32gb ram, and a seasonic X650 PSU.. everything's pretty top notch.




Using..Optical?


----------



## MikeW

The Jotunheim dac I was discussing only has a USB input. So no optical/coax.


----------



## alota

Finally i sold my jotunheim. After the experience with mojo,i can't listen the internal dac.the amplifier section is really good. I believe with a good balanced dac sounds espectacular.
In every case, the jotunheim is a really good product for the price


----------



## lentoviolento

a quanto l'hai venduto alla fine?? che  cuffie possiedi?


----------



## alota

lentoviolento said:


> a quanto l'hai venduto alla fine?? che  cuffie possiedi?



I send a pm


----------



## dsrk

alota said:


> Finally i sold my jotunheim. After the experience with mojo,i can't listen the internal dac.the amplifier section is really good. I believe with a good balanced dac sounds espectacular.
> In every case, the jotunheim is a really good product for the price


 
 Do you mean that you prefer Mojo's sound over Jotunheim's sound?


----------



## alota

dsrk said:


> Do you mean that you prefer Mojo's sound over Jotunheim's sound?


 
 i connected the mojo to jotunheim and the result is really good but my headhone is easy to drive and i want a single unit. for this reason i sold the jot.
 considering every electronic alone, yes i prefere the mojo.
 i still have the curiosity to try the jot with another dac like gugnir or denafrips ares


----------



## chicken beer

cskippy said:


> You would be using the Jot as a preamp for the connected amp.  The Jot's DAC will convert the digital to analog and it will output analog, what you do with that signal is up to you.


 
 Yes, exactly that's what I think! If the preamp output is clean and nothing fuzzy is going on in the box, then this would be the cheapest 'real' balanced DAC on earth if I really want a balanced DAC and enjoy it with some of my other amps~


----------



## chicken beer

alota said:


> Finally i sold my jotunheim. After the experience with mojo,i can't listen the internal dac.the amplifier section is really good. I believe with a good balanced dac sounds espectacular.
> In every case, the jotunheim is a really good product for the price


 
 I can see the problem! The DAC in there is essentially just a balanced Modi 2 without any nice circuiting to place filters. I don't think this module thing is gonna be really good anyway.
  
 What I think could be useful is to use a very nice OCC USB cable that solidifies the lows/mids.


----------



## cskippy

I would take Modi Multibit and a Vali 2 over Jot with just balanced DAC.  Don't get caught up on the balanced is better train.  It's not.  Also, spend your money on better DAC/amp over silly cables.  Not saying cables don't matter but digital cables will be the least change.  Analog interconnects will have a greater effect.


----------



## chicken beer

cskippy said:


> I would take Modi Multibit and a Vali 2 over Jot with just balanced DAC.  Don't get caught up on the balanced is better train.  It's not.  Also, spend your money on better DAC/amp over silly cables.  Not saying cables don't matter but digital cables will be the least change.  Analog interconnects will have a greater effect.


 
 You absolutely right.
  
 I believe the modi multibit is gonna be good and thinking of getting one recently~


----------



## MikeW

but balanced is better, everything else being equal. Of course a 100$ balanced dac card can't compete with a 250$ standalone product, single ended or not. Apples and oranges. But if i've got a balanced DAC and AMP, im certainly going to use it's balanced features. You don't buy a Yggy or even Gumby to run them SE.
  
 Reading "The Road to Jotunheim" it seems like Jason needed an excuse to create this AMP with it's Pivot Point Topology, with no clear product placement, so he shoehorned a dac into it. I almost wish he dident. Guess that does not matter though, as the unit is available without the Dac module. And they would have likely used this chasis size either way.
  
 It does compete well with other "Dac-Amp" combo type products in it's price range. Im sure there are products that can challenge it, but it's a short list. Audio GD stuff  comes to mind, if Modi-Multibit wasent a thing, we'd all be singing Jot's praises.
  
 They may have been better off making it's internal dac single ended, and utilizing the additional space for a better USB implementation and/or filters, or possibly a better  output stage, that's not passive and sending signal though a pair of Wima's. It is a different animal with better USB input imho.


----------



## cskippy

Everything else can't be equal.  Double the parts, twice the complexity, added issues due to space constraints/heat and a higher price point due to more parts and modified design.  Most of the ToTL amps aren't balanced.  I'm not knocking it as I use a Freya and a Jot but I'd take my Zana Deux over both of those any day.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Some implementations of balanced offer superior parts and more power. Some don't. I generally use balanced, but you absolutely need to dig below the surface to figure out what's right for you.


----------



## alota

I wrote about balanced dac just because the jot has balanced input. The balanced connection on the source is different compared to balanced headphone. And i wrote that i tried the mojo that is se and jot works perfectly in this configuration. About internal dac, in my opinion isn't bad, just not so good like a separate solution. For 100 dollars is difficult to make better


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

alota said:


> For 100 dollars is *impossible* to make better


 
 fixed that for u


----------



## Vigrith

cskippy said:


> I would take Modi Multibit and a Vali 2 over Jot with just balanced DAC.  Don't get caught up on the balanced is better train.  It's not.  Also, spend your money on better DAC/amp over silly cables.  Not saying cables don't matter but digital cables will be the least change.  Analog interconnects will have a greater effect.


 
  
 I agree with everything you've said asides the "balanced is not better" comment - if we're talking headphone balanced out then I've found that to not be true at all. Given the context and @MikeW 's reply I assume you are speaking of balanced DAC -> balanced amp only in which case I'd say the differences are much slighter (if at all there), indeed, however the way you worded your reply sort of makes it sound like you're bundling all things balanced into the same bag which, in my opinion, is absolutely unfair.


----------



## sludgeogre

Everyone needs to calm down on this whole balanced debate, this will never get figured out here. If an amp or DAC was designed to be used balanced, it'll probably sound better in balanced mode. If balanced mode is offered just for convenience, you should expect no difference. If the balanced signal can be generated into an amp without much change in the signal, then there probably won't be much of a difference. In the case of the Jot, since only half the amp is used in SE output, but the whole amp can be used with an unbalanced or balanced input through the balanced output, but will provide more power through balanced output, it really depends on the headphone. If it's a "power hungry" headphone then it should sound better through balanced output. If it's a very sensitive headphone, it's highly unlikely you'll notice any difference from the added power. If you want to talk about noise floor and all of those specs, fine, but inaudible is inaudible is inaudible. I don't care if the balanced output has less noise that I still won't ever hear and it's crazy that people still argue these points. I'm exhausted.


----------



## NPWS

I'm looking the DAC stack with Jot, what's the best DAC. considering price to performance on budget <=$500
 and anyone here already tried JOT Vs oppo ha-1?
 thanks


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

npws said:


> I'm looking the DAC stack with Jot, what's the best DAC. considering price to performance on budget <=$500
> and anyone here already tried JOT Vs oppo ha-1?
> thanks


 

 used bimby. no u can't have mine


----------



## MikeW

I don't think now's a great time to buy a Bimby.. Mimby's too good, or Bimby not good enough. Either way, im waiting  for the next Bifrost update before I make any choices. The Jotunheim dac + Recovery + Ifi will be fine until then.


----------



## sludgeogre

mikew said:


> I don't think now's a great time to buy a Bimby.. Mimby's too good, or Bimby not good enough. Either way, im waiting  for the next Bifrost update before I make any choices. The Jotunheim dac + Recovery + Ifi will be fine until then.


 
 The thing that's great about the Bifrost is that you don't need to wait for anything, you can upgrade it whenever you want. You may be waiting a long time for another upgrade board. I bet if it's anything, it would be a new USB board, since Multibit is kind of the culmination of what they've been working on in that realm. I think now is the best time to buy a Bifrost, especially if you don't use USB primarily, because I've found Windows and USB audio to be far too much of a problem for me to sort out. They always keep us guessing though, so who knows what they have up their sleeves.


----------



## MikeW

I suspect their Bimby Sales have fallen off a cliff, so it would be in their best interest to update it, sooner rather then later. They could use the DSP from Gumby in it, or maybe make it balanced, or improve the USB, etc.. there's plenty of room for improvement. If they killed Bimby with Mimby, who's to say they won't kill gumby with the next version of Bimby


----------



## MarkF786

I'd pay for improved USB on the Bimby.


----------



## NPWS

bosiemoncrieff said:


> npws said:
> 
> 
> > I'm looking the DAC stack with Jot, what's the best DAC. considering price to performance on budget <=$500
> ...


 






 yes, I think used bimby is good too, still considering the other choices


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

markf786 said:


> I'd pay for improved USB on the Bimby.


 

 mike has a great usb upgrade just for u! it's called "buy an optical cable." Plugs into every mac's headphone jack.


----------



## sludgeogre

mikew said:


> I suspect their Bimby Sales have fallen off a cliff, so it would be in their best interest to update it, sooner rather then later. They could use the DSP from Gumby in it, or maybe make it balanced, or improve the USB, etc.. there's plenty of room for improvement. If they killed Bimby with Mimby, who's to say they won't kill gumby with the next version of Bimby


 
 4490 version is out of stock right now and I've seen the Multibit go out as well. It looks like it's still selling just fine. I don't know why you assume they have fallen off a cliff. People are still discovering Schiit and the value they pose all the time. As for the balanced part, that literally requires double the parts and they have said a bunch of times they aren't going to do it.


----------



## Share2Care

Aloha Peeps! 

Thoroughly enjoying being part of of one of the best Schiit families in the World! 

As my Jot has a balanced out, I would like to try a couple of cans with it... Rude not to..! 

I am in need of suggestions of cable suppliers that members have had positive experiences with. I am in the UK and although I am not shy of importing there must be some good companies here in the UK and the EU? 

Just so you know, I have searched around but feel far more secure if members can reccommend companies as I am a rapidly advancing beginner, but a beginner nevertheless. 

Thank you!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I pass along Jason's perhaps best piece of advice: spend the lion's share of your money on cans and speakers, not amps and DACs. With the splendid jot, the HD6x0 series will make you very happy. Ditto LCD series, the old HE500 or HE400 series, the mr speakers stuff. Elear, Utopia (if u can afford it). If you have Sonarworks I'd even recommend HD800, though not without, even if all you listen to is classical.


----------



## MikeW

bosiemoncrieff said:


> mike has a great usb upgrade just for u! it's called "buy an optical cable." Plugs into every mac's headphone jack.




The problem is most pcs have aweful horrible optical out. And a good optical out cost about 600$(Lynx). Not to mention optical is inherently inferior to galvanically isolated coax based on the reciever chips alone. Most optical receivers have a minimum 50ps jitter, while coax is down in the sub 10ps range. You can upgrade schiit USB by using reclockers. 

It really is absurd what lengths we have to go through for a good transport. I hear the xmos singer f1 is supposed to be pretty good.


----------



## daltonlanny

Has anyone tried the Sennheiser HD650 with both the Schiit Ragnarok and Schiit Jotunheim?
If so, what are the sonic differences, and which has the best synergy with the HD650?
Which opens up the top-end the most?
Thanks!


----------



## sludgeogre

daltonlanny said:


> Has anyone tried the Sennheiser HD650 with both the Schiit Ragnarok and Schiit Jotunheim?
> If so, what are the sonic differences, and which has the best synergy with the HD650?
> Which opens up the top-end the most?
> Thanks!


 
 Buying a Ragnarok to power an HD650 sounds a little absurd. I'd just buy a better headphone at that point. If you're after top-end detail/shimmer/that sort of stuff, the HD800S would be a big upgrade for you, or a Mr Speakers Ether C Flow or something like that. Or just go with the Jotunheim, it has plenty of power. Both are kinda bright so they'll botn open up the top end for you.


----------



## daltonlanny

sludgeogre said:


> Buying a Ragnarok to power an HD650 sounds a little absurd. I'd just buy a better headphone at that point. If you're after top-end detail/shimmer/that sort of stuff, the HD800S would be a big upgrade for you, or a Mr Speakers Ether C Flow or something like that. Or just go with the Jotunheim, it has plenty of power. Both are kinda bright so they'll botn open up the top end for you.




I already own a HD800 with SDR mod, and a Hifiman HE-6.
I just like listening to the HD650 over both of them sometimes, and I am looking for a good amp to power them with.


----------



## MarkF786

bosiemoncrieff said:


> mike has a great usb upgrade just for u! it's called "buy an optical cable." Plugs into every mac's headphone jack.




Except for those times when I want to use my Macs built in speakers for something and have to reach around and unplug the optical cable :-/ That's why I prefer USB to my Bimby (when it works).


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

markf786 said:


> Except for those times when I want to use my Macs built in speakers for something and* have to reach around and unplug the optical cable :-/ *That's why I prefer USB to my Bimby (when it works).




Omg someone call the international criminal court this is a crime against humanity!!

Having to unplug a cable?? To revert from headphones to speakers??? THE INJUSTICE OF IT ALL. #thanksobama


----------



## cskippy

The real question is why would you EVER want to listen to the internal speakers?


----------



## MattTCG

daltonlanny said:


> I already own a HD800 with SDR mod, and a Hifiman HE-6.
> I just like listening to the HD650 over both of them sometimes, and I am looking for a good amp to power them with.


 
  
 You are asking for an amp to match with the hd650 or hd800 and he-6? Or all? The Jot is just great with the 650. Of course he-6 is a different animal altogether.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

How about Ragnarok?


----------



## JuanCamiloso

matttcg said:


> You are asking for an amp to match with the hd650 or hd800 and he-6? Or all? The Jot is just great with the 650. Of course he-6 is a different animal altogether.


 
  
 I am curious. I have read many times that the Jot pairs well with the HD650, but also that it may be too bright with other headphones. Which one would you recommend for the HD800?
  
 I am currently looking for a balanced amp, I have a Focal Elear, and since they are v-shaped I am very afraid of treble murder with the Jot. Maybe in the future I would get a HD800s.


----------



## daltonlanny

matttcg said:


> You are asking for an amp to match with the hd650 or hd800 and he-6? Or all? The Jot is just great with the 650. Of course he-6 is a different animal altogether.




The HD650.


----------



## MattTCG

The only real shortcoming of the Jot is the lack of staging. But I find that it actually has better synergy than the Rag when it comes to the 650. Jot has some of the best price to performance ratio ever for solid state. So if you want solid state and balanced then you really can't go wrong with this amp.


----------



## sovereign

bosiemoncrieff said:


> mike has a great usb upgrade just for u! it's called "buy an optical cable." Plugs into every mac's headphone jack.




The 2016 MBP does not have an optical output.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

sovereign said:


> The 2016 MBP does not have an optical output.


 

 Actually the MacBook Air and new 12" MacBook "Adorable" also don't have it. I'm so glad I got the 2015 MBP. Apple is really showing audiophiles the finger. The new iMac may well lack it as well. Le sigh.


----------



## MarkF786

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Omg someone call the international criminal court this is a crime against humanity!!
> 
> Having to unplug a cable?? To revert from headphones to speakers??? THE INJUSTICE OF IT ALL. #thanksobama




Why do so many idiots on the Internet assume they know what's best for another person?

I bought a USB DAC because I want to use it with USB.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

This. Even with the help of a freya it sounded closed in. (Spring 3 dac)





matttcg said:


> The only real shortcoming of the Jot is the lack of staging. But I find that it actually has better synergy than the Rag when it comes to the 650. Jot has some of the best price to performance ratio ever for solid state. So if you want solid state and balanced then you really can't go wrong with this amp.


----------



## MikeW

Im sure something like a Singer F1 is way, way better then mac optical anyway, but it is a relatively expensive, ugly, bulky add-on, for a portable/semi portable setup.


----------



## chenszhanx

alota said:


> Finally i sold my jotunheim. After the experience with mojo,i can't listen the internal dac.the amplifier section is really good. I believe with a good balanced dac sounds espectacular.
> In every case, the jotunheim is a really good product for the price


 
 I was  wondering you use 1/4" trs or XLR when you comparing jot's internal dac and mojo?
  
 I tried both when I comparing Grace M9xx(as dac) 、Pioneer XDP-300R(as single-end and balanced dac) and jot internal dac.
  
  
 SE phone output
    
    M9xx>300R(both SE and BA) >>>> jot DAC
  
 Balanced  phone output 
  
    300R BA>M9xx>300R SE>jot DAC
  
  
 I guess that using amp's SE out will eliminate most of benefit from balanced source
 Jot's internal dac is "acceptable" when use XLR out put to me for this price.


----------



## Maxx134

matttcg said:


> The only real shortcoming of the Jot is the lack of staging. But I find that it actually has better synergy than the Rag when it comes to the 650. Jot has some of the best price to performance ratio ever for solid state. So if you want solid state and balanced then you really can't go wrong with this amp.



Jotenheim moderate lack of staging matches well with original HEK excessive laid back staging to make great pairing.


----------



## Josh Englert

My Jotunheim w/dac has just shipped! For future upgrades I will be pairing it with a multibit dac....


----------



## alota

chenszhanx said:


> I was  wondering you use 1/4" trs or XLR when you comparing jot's internal dac and mojo?
> 
> I tried both when I comparing Grace M9xx(as dac) 、Pioneer XDP-300R(as single-end and balanced dac) and jot internal dac.
> 
> ...


 
 i used 1/4 because at this moment i have just one headphone.
 honestly, i don´t know. the dac has 2 4490 so where is the problem? i have no response
 probably is better in balanced mode but i don´t think that the sound signature changes from day to the night
 i chose the mojo(sold and now hugo) because is another type of sound
 i repeat one more time: for the price the jot is awesome


----------



## User00

Has anyone tried to solder burson op amps to the jotunheim yet? I wonder if it would sound better with a burson mod...


----------



## MikeW

there are no op-amps in jotunheim. it's a discrete design. if there are op-amps in the circuit somewhere, they are not part of the gain stage.


----------



## User00

Thanks for clarifying that. Anyways, I wanted to know if anyone has paired the jot with the audeze el8? Does it pair well?


----------



## chenszhanx

alota said:


> i used 1/4 because at this moment i have just one headphone.
> honestly, i don´t know. the dac has 2 4490 so where is the problem? i have no response
> probably is better in balanced mode but i don´t think that the sound signature changes from day to the night
> i chose the mojo(sold and now hugo) because is another type of sound
> i repeat one more time: for the price the jot is awesome


 
 I see.
 I totally agree with what u wrote.
  
 Going from balanced to SE is a big downgrade to me.So i was confused why u do that.
 Now I know  it's sound signature cause.
  
 Jot Amp has no strong sound signature.The sound can be changed  by changing DAC.
 But Jot w/ DAC has fixed sound signature.Unless you keep the $100 unused there.
  
 Besides the sound signature,Jot Amp and DAC part is really a different classed stuff.
 I felt Jot's DAC part is under $300 level and Amp is $1000 (japan and us brand which i familiar pricing
  not comparing to china brand)
  
 I am updating from Jot's internal DAC now.
 When I hesitating to sold Jot w/ DAC and buy a new Jot or Keep the DAC unused there.
 I realized that Jot w/ DAC is a trap from schiit.
 Schiit use this irresistible product to tell people how inconvenient a DAC/Amp combo is.


----------



## tuna47

Will the Jot be a good choice with the He 1000


----------



## WutDaFunk

If I were to buy a Modi 2 Multibit to pair with the Jotunheim, would I still be able to use the balanced output with my headphones? What is the point of the Jotunheim's DAC module having 2 DAC chips instead of the Multibit's 1? I'm guessing I just have to plug the Multibit into the Jotunheim's SE in with RCA, then I can just use my headphones with balanced XLR, correct?


----------



## Floss99

wutdafunk said:


> If I were to buy a Modi 2 Multibit to pair with the Jotunheim, would I still be able to use the balanced output with my headphones? What is the point of the Jotunheim's DAC module having 2 DAC chips instead of the Multibit's 1? I'm guessing I just have to plug the Multibit into the Jotunheim's SE in with RCA, then I can just use my headphones with balanced XLR, correct?


 
 Yes that is correct, balanced output will work even when a single ended DAC is used


----------



## lentoviolento

floss99 said:


> Yes that is correct, balanced output will work even when a single ended DAC is used


 

 it works but it doesnt make sense.... buy a balanced dac, like teac 301...


----------



## MWSVette

It does work great and makes perfect sense if you want a Multibit DAC for under $250.00...


----------



## Letmebefrank

It works because of Jason's proprietary Pivot Point topology, which we don't know much about because it's different than traditional amp designs.


----------



## tuna47

How good is the jot with he1009


----------



## tuna47

He 1000


----------



## LDBaha

Hey guys,
  
 I just bought the Jotunheim DAC/AMP combo! It's backorederd though .

 I plan on pairing it with my HE-560 with balanced cable. Anyone here can comment on the pairing?  I had bought before the Aune S6 Dac/Amp but it doesn't have enough power, even with balanced cable at 100 volume it wasn't like super loud or anything. On some DSD tracks that have low volume even at max volume wasn't loud enough.
  
 Anyone here can comment on the Jot with high gain and HE-560s ?


----------



## FiGuY1017

I can give "MY opinion". I had jot it sounded great with the he560. Very detailed and transparent and musical,perfect on high gain. I did sell it though. And I did so after much back and forth between my ican se & cayin c5. I just couldn't get past the 2d staging that I" was getting from the jot>mimby>560.I guess I value a 3d stage over absolute transparency and detail. So I bought a heron 5 and love the 3d stage it sets.

I just bought the Jotunheim DAC/AMP combo! It's backorederd though .


I plan on pairing it with my HE-560 with balanced cable. Anyone here can comment on the pairing?  I had bought before the Aune S6 Dac/Amp but it doesn't have enough power, even with balanced cable at 100 volume it wasn't like super loud or anything. On some DSD tracks that have low volume even at max volume wasn't loud enough.

Anyone here can comment on the Jot with high gain and HE-560s ?
[/quote]


----------



## LDBaha

figuy1017 said:


> I can give "MY opinion". I had jot it sounded great with the he560. Very detailed and transparent and musical,perfect on high gain. I did sell it though. And I did so after much back and forth between my ican se & cayin c5. I just couldn't get past the 2d staging that I" was getting from the jot>mimby>560.I guess I value a 3d stage over absolute transparency and detail. So I bought a heron 5 and love the 3d stage it sets.
> 
> I just bought the Jotunheim DAC/AMP combo! It's backorederd though
> 
> ...


[/quote]

 That's very interesting. Thanks for letting me know. I look forward to the Jot. Eventually I'll get more cans, like the HD800 and the Elears but for now I'll enjoy my 560s 
  
 I REALLY like the Heron5 but I think it's a bit overpriced for what it offers. Don't you think?


----------



## DavidA

ldbaha said:


> That's very interesting. Thanks for letting me know. I look forward to the Jot. Eventually I'll get more cans, like the HD800 and the Elears but for now I'll enjoy my 560s
> 
> I REALLY like the Heron5 but I think it's a bit overpriced for what it offers. Don't you think?


 
 If you are considering the HD800 and HE560 then you might be a little disappointed with the Jot.  The HD800 and HE560 were the first two headphones I tried on a friends Jot and it was pretty sibilant and harsh with most tracks I listened to.  The HE560 is a touch on the bright side but does not get harsh or sibilant unless the amp in question is a touch on the bright side for me.


----------



## sludgeogre

ldbaha said:


> That's very interesting. Thanks for letting me know. I look forward to the Jot. Eventually I'll get more cans, like the HD800 and the Elears but for now I'll enjoy my 560s
> 
> I REALLY like the Heron5 but I think it's a bit overpriced for what it offers. Don't you think?


 
 Considering there are a bunch of amps in the $2k+ range that offer the same kind of power, I don't think so. The fully discrete design, high power, phase accuracy, and two different levels of output impedance are really amazing features for a $1k price point. It's at the top of my list for amp upgrades right now.


----------



## LDBaha

davida said:


> If you are considering the HD800 and HE560 then you might be a little disappointed with the Jot.  The HD800 and HE560 were the first two headphones I tried on a friends Jot and it was pretty sibilant and harsh with most tracks I listened to.  The HE560 is a touch on the bright side but does not get harsh or sibilant unless the amp in question is a touch on the bright side for me.


 
 Hey @DavidA thanks for the tip. I've heard this about the Jot being bright but never being 'harsh'. I do think the HD800 have that peak in brightness that bothers a lot of people but to me the 560 sound a lot more neutral (in fact for some people they are 'boring' headphones).
  
 What would you recommend instead of the Jot? I mean for $499 it's hard to beat on price/performance. 
  


sludgeogre said:


> Considering there are a bunch of amps in the $2k+ range that offer the same kind of power, I don't think so. The fully discrete design, high power, phase accuracy, and two different levels of output impedance are really amazing features for a $1k price point. It's at the top of my list for amp upgrades right now.


 
  
 I see. I need to learn more about the Heron5. I think the lack of XLR worries me a bit. But thank you for pointing me to the Heron5. I think someday in the future I'll upgrade to it.  That is, after a long list of headphones to buy first and probably a mimby (or a Teac) to match the Jot. .


----------



## FiGuY1017

Well personally I didnt nor could I have afforded the heron new,so I bought it used for 425. But after owning it and hearing it for what it offers me,which is exactly what I was looking for I'd say its absolutely not over priced. But everyone has there own taste and what they are looking for so ymmv. For me it's staging capabilities are top notch ,just love that thing! But I also have a limited prospective as i haven't heard alot of expensive amps. But there will always be better" regardless. And I'm not rich enough to keep up LOL. So I'll just be happy with my heron 5,ican se &cayin c5.

I REALLY like the Heron5 but I think it's a bit overpriced for what it offers. Don't you think?
[/quote]


----------



## LDBaha

figuy1017 said:


> Well personally I didnt nor could I have afforded the heron new,so I bought it used for 425. But after owning it and hearing it for what it offers me,which is exactly what I was looking for I'd say its absolutely not over priced. But everyone has there own taste and what they are looking for so ymmv. For me it's staging capabilities are top notch ,just love that thing! But I also have a limited prospective as i haven't heard alot of expensive amps. But there will always be better" regardless. And I'm not rich enough to keep up LOL. So I'll just be happy with my heron 5,ican se &cayin c5.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


[/quote]

 At first I read that it was 2K that's why I made the overpriced comments. I read that the new revised price is 1k that's not so crazy. Still with the lack of balance output IDK. I would love to try it out though.

 if you're using a Heron5, iCan SE and Caying C5 what are you using as a DAC? 
  
 Anyway since this is a Jot thread. I'm super excited for my Jot and I'll post my impressions here, maybe they'll help someone in the future.


----------



## FiGuY1017

Yes and sorry for going 9ff topic as the jot 8s great!so I'll leave it after this. From my understanding the design structure of the heron 5 was to engineer it in a way that provided the benifits of a ballanced amp in a se design. And as far a dac I'm using a mimby. Was with the jot and now with heron.


----------



## ronnel0918

Schiit is now offering the Jotunheim in black finish.


----------



## LDBaha

ronnel0918 said:


> Schiit is now offering the Jotunheim in black finish.


 
 Does that come with the silver knob? because I think that's a bit ugly. 

 If it was all black I would've surely preferred it over the silver version.


----------



## alpovs

ronnel0918 said:


> Schiit is now offering the Jotunheim in black finish.



They probably forgot to change their website after April 1st


----------



## LDBaha

alpovs said:


> They probably forgot to change their website after April 1st


 
 No! haha it was there when I ordered mine like a week ago.


----------



## DavidA

ldbaha said:


> Hey @DavidA thanks for the tip. I've heard this about the Jot being bright but never being 'harsh'. I do think the HD800 have that peak in brightness that bothers a lot of people but to me the 560 sound a lot more neutral (in fact for some people they are 'boring' headphones).
> 
> What would you recommend instead of the Jot? I mean for $499 it's hard to beat on price/performance.
> 
> ...


 
 One of the better amps within your price range is the Polaris ($250) which would leave you $250 for a Mimby, a nice pairing with the HE560 and the Polaris is one of the more flexible amps since you can change the output resistance/impedance to better match various headphones.
  
 For the HD800 there are a few SS amps close to your budget that I like with it (Liquid Carbon, G-109, HA-501)
 OTL or hybrid amps for the HD800 have usually sounded better than most SS amps from my limited experience so far.
  
 One of the few DAC/amp combos that pair really well with the HD800 and HE560 is a Hugo, about as good as it gets but its way out there in price, Mojo for some reason just doesn't pair as well with the HD800 and HE560 from the few times I tried a friends Mojo but used as a DAC its pretty good, a touch better than Mimby IMO.


----------



## FredQc

Does the Jotunheim can use the RCA input then BAL out the a power amp ? Also, can I connect Galaxy S7 with a USB cable to it ?
  
 Thanks in advance


----------



## Cruxiaer

fredqc said:


> Does the Jotunheim can use the RCA input then BAL out the a power amp ? Also, can I connect Galaxy S7 with a USB cable to it ?
> 
> Thanks in advance



Yes you can use otg cable to power and use the dac. I've tried it with my HTC 10. 

And yes there's balance output from the jotunheim regardless of what input you feed it.


----------



## FredQc

cruxiaer said:


> Yes you can use otg cable to power and use the dac. I've tried it with my HTC 10.
> 
> And yes there's balance output from the jotunheim regardless of what input you feed it.


 

 Oh that's sweet, thank you.
  
 I've just ordered the Jotunheim and it was shipped same day. I guess I'm lucky.
  
 Can't wait to try this with my HD-650s. My current amp/dac is the Audioengine D3


----------



## MikeW

Well, Jot's got insanely good measurments, it's a technically amazing amp. People need to learn how to use an Equalizer, it's a hell of alot easier and cheaper to find a good, neutral amp and EQ it to your preference to fix bright headphones, then it is to swap out expensive gear all the time. I don't see what the big deal is. 20 minutes with a good Parametric EQ like math audio, in Foobar, and your all set. For what it's worth, I found the Jot to be less bright then an O2.


----------



## Voxata

I think the Jot does great with the 560, for what it's worth. I EQ minor on the treble.


----------



## FredQc

I can't wait to try the Jotunheim as a preamp for my Emotiva XPA-2 amp. I've always had the BDP-105 connected directly to it.


----------



## windcar

The internal DAC is such a let down it does not do justice to the amp by not letting it show it's real capability.
 Not only is it not resolving enough, it has a very poor synergy with bright dac and bright amp pairing.
  
 Schiit may sell more unit by offering a dac option but I feel their reputation will suffer long term by unimpressed customers.


----------



## Tuneslover

windcar said:


> The internal DAC is such a let down it does not do justice to the amp by not letting it show it's real capability.
> Not only is it not resolving enough, it has a very poor synergy with bright dac and bright amp pairing.
> 
> Schiit may sell more unit by offering a dac option but I feel their reputation will suffer long term by unimpressed customers.


 
 I'm curious, how are you making this assessment?  Are you comparing it against something connected to the SE input such as a DAP, CD player, or another DAC?


----------



## windcar

I am using modi multibit. The mimby has it's own flaws too, namely, too dark. But it has much better synergy with Jot making it sounds more neutral. Also, the mimby is more resolving then jot's internal dac.


----------



## lentoviolento

windcar said:


> I am using modi multibit. The mimby has it's own flaws too, namely, too dark. But it has much better synergy with Jot making it sounds more neutral. Also, the mimby is more resolving then jot's internal dac.




The mimby dark? Why are you saying this? What dac have you tried?


----------



## windcar

Odac, creative zxr, emu-0204
 mimby is the darkest of them all.


----------



## MWSVette

Of course we all hear differently. 
  
 With that said I have heard, owned or extensively used several different Schiit DAC's and would not call any of them dark.  As far as the DAC for the Jot I found it to be a very capable DAC for $100.00.  While I do prefer my Bimby, if space or money was an issue I could use the DAC in the Jot on a daily basis.
  
 Neutral and revealing, detailed presentation would be how I would describe them. 
  
 IMHO, YMMV, yada yada yada


----------



## DavidA

windcar said:


> Odac, creative zxr, emu-0204
> mimby is the darkest of them all.


 
 I own both a Bifrost MB and Uber along with a Modi2uber (4490) and have previously owned original Modi and Modi Optical, I've also heard my friend's Yggy a few times and none of these DACs are dark, if anything they are pretty neutral IMO with the original Modi being a touch on the bright side.  I've also owned a ODAC/O2 which to me was quite bright.  The Modi2uber to some of my friends sound better than the Bimby so I find it hard to believe that you find the built-in 4490 DAC of the Jot to be that bad but at the same time you are saying that the Jot is also a bright amp if you like it paired with a dark Mimby.


----------



## windcar

I have not heard modiUber so I cannot comment how similar it is to the Jot's internal dac. Even if dac are using t he same chip, implementation such as power supply and filter will alter the sound so they will never sound the same. If all 4490 sounds the same, there is no need for different dacs using the same chip selling at different price point.
 Jot with internal dac is a very bright combination that can even make hd650 sounds slightly analytical.


----------



## DavidA

windcar said:


> I have not heard modiUber so I cannot comment how similar it is to the Jot's internal dac. Even if dac are using t he same chip, implementation such as power supply and filter will alter the sound so they will never sound the same. If all 4490 sounds the same, there is no need for different dacs using the same chip selling at different price point.
> Jot with internal dac is a very bright combination that can even make hd650 sounds slightly analytical.


 
 To me the Jot as an amp is on the bright side and even if the implementation of the 4490 is different I've yet to hear one that is bright, these are DACs that use the 4490 that I've heard: Teac UD-503, Hegel HD??, NuPrime DAC-9, Bifrost and Modi2uber, yes they all sound slightly different but I would not consider any of these bright.  My other reason for thinking the 4490 built in DAC of the Jot is not bright is when I tried my friends Jot (no built in DAC) it did not pair well with HD800, HD700, T1 and HE560, all were too bright sounding on the Jot compared to HA-501, Lyr2 (Siemens CCa's), Liquid Carbon and Ember (Telefunken 12AU7).


----------



## RiflemanFirst

If I buy the Jotunheim, should I get it with the balanced DAC option or save $100 and use it with the Mimby I already have? I mostly just want it so I can hook up my HD650s to the balanced output.


----------



## MWSVette

riflemanfirst said:


> If I buy the Jotunheim, should I get it with the balanced DAC option or save $100 and use it with the Mimby I already have? I mostly just want it so I can hook up my HD650s to the balanced output.


 

 Just use the Mimby you have.  Any signal input to the Jot is balanced at the output.


----------



## RiflemanFirst

mwsvette said:


> Just use the Mimby you have.  Any signal input to the Jot is balanced at the output.


 
  
 I figured as much. Thanks for the reply! Just out of curiosity, any idea what differences in terms of sound signature or quality I could expect with the Jot amp vs the Vali 2?


----------



## sup27606

Can someone list the headphones that synergize well with the Jot. Don't want to get it just for the Senn 650s. What about the Audeze Sine?


----------



## cskippy

riflemanfirst said:


> I figured as much. Thanks for the reply! Just out of curiosity, any idea what differences in terms of sound signature or quality I could expect with the Jot amp vs the Vali 2?


 
 Jot will win on technicalities such as speed, clarity, and extension at the extremes but Vali 2 will be more neutral, has better staging, plus toobz.


----------



## earnmyturns

MrSpeakers Ether C Flow. Soundstage not huge but every instrument is in its place, strong but tight bass, clear mid-highs, fast transients, realistic decays. With Bimby as DAC.


----------



## Voxata

HE-560, incredibly powerful and full sounding with fast transients and excellent positioning. Stage is good, could use a hair more air around instruments however may be my chain as a whole. Using Mimby.


----------



## Nokiron

Really pleased with my Jotunheim, it gets plenty of use with my TH900s.
  
 Anyone willing to share their experience together with some HD800s?


----------



## leafy7382

If you are referring to the original HD800, I just went through a week pairing Jot + Internal DAC with the HD800/Cardas cable.
  
 In short, it's harsh. It's ok for classical or instrumental music, but cymbals in jazz always stood out very significantly and female vocal is pretty sibilant.
  
 I had to change to using a Mimby as the source, trying to tame the harshness and it worked to a certain degree. The sibilance is still noticeable and I can't really listen at loud volume without feeling fatigue-ing. It's not a good pairing.
  
 Curious about anyone with experience paring the Jot/Mimby with HD800S too.


----------



## FLTWS

Jot with HD800:
  
 It's is good to my ears but I slightly prefer the 800 on my Rag or MJ2. That's not to say the Jot (sans DAC) is not a great sounding amp because it is and not just for the money. It a great sounding amp, period. The 800 might sound great with the Jot depending on your listening preferences.
  
 The 800 seems just a touch brighter and the mid-range a more touch forward (great for vocals) with my Jot, but very clean, and the sound depends on the quality of the source material which is always the biggest part of the whole equation. I listen primarily to classical music and don't like a "podium  perspective" with large orchestral works and the Rag and MJ2 put a little more space and air between me and the players which I prefer. Bass is very satisfying for me on all counts with the Jot / 800 ( I sometimes wonder if I got a slightly better pair of 800 drivers perf wise than usual based on what I've read from other posters, or maybe it's just my ears). I feel the Rag and MJ2 play more to the strengths of the 800. Only your ears can tell you that. But the 800 is a fantastic headphone from all aspects; sound, build, comfort, etc., and seems to be very durable over the long haul. And it's funny but in today's market it's actually reasonably priced for what it delivers compared to some other makes and models.
  
 I might be wrong but also want to note that to my ears, the Schiit folks know how to listen. I find my Jot, MJ2, and Rag to be more alike in sound characteristics than different, (tube rolling in the MJ2 can make a bigger difference) and I find that a good thing, very consistent. Accurate is accurate right? There are no degrees of it, it either is or it isn't. If all amps were 100% accurate they would have to, by definition, be identical sounding. Good designs should be converging on a commonality of sound presentation. If a designer decides to voice the sound to cater to a specific end sound that's fine, but that doesn't make it accurate. 
  
 I've never heard the TH900 but if memory serves I remember reading posts that tended to make me thing the TH900 is up front and towards the bright side rather than neutral or rolled off in the highs. And the 800 can sound brighter than other phones I've auditioned but it's not forward. We all hear differently, one listeners "this porridge is too hot/cold" is another listeners "just right".
  
 I've had my 800 since August last year and its well broken in and has been my personal headphone of choice over my Oppo PM1's and HD600. I've auditioned the Dharma 1000, Abyss 1266, HEK1000, and HD800S. I own the first 2 phones and have had 7 to 10 day in-home auditions with the rest and I was very impressed with the Abyss and HEK.  I've had brief exposure to some Audeze but my head shape wasn't a good mesh with them fit or weight wise. In general I prefer the sound of dynamic drivers to planar types but that's just me and the Abyss and HEK were very tempting. I also think the Abyss takes more than a few days to come to grips with. I owned Stax in the 80's and early 90's and know what electrostats are capable of. 
  
 I purchased Utopia recently and have well over 400 hours on them. I spent March listening exclusively to the Utopia. Yesterday was the first time I decided to A/B the Utopia to my 800 with the Jot and Rag. I only A/B'd the two for about 5 hours so take my comments with a big grain of salt as it will take me months of listening for me to come to any final conclusions for myself. Also, my ears are 70 years old so normal aging coupled with too much time on the line in southeast Asia 68'  hasn't helped preserve them and my audiologist says my ears roll off significantly above 7 to 8Khz so I can't hear things the same way as I did in my 30's and 40's.
  
 What was surprising was I didn't get the big Day/Night business I was expecting between the two HP's. The differences were obvious but no clear winner to me. I volume matched with a sound level meter and test tone CD and did the comparison with both the Jot and Rag simultaneously (the Jot / 800 and Utopia / Rag first - and then reversed the match-ups after re matching the volume levels). Schiit's all live all the time outputs makes this type A/B'ing easy. Both of these are excellent headphones and it was more a matter of sound stage presentation to my ears, between the phones. Instruments can sound very realistic on either depending on the recording. The 800 has an airy, almost translucent presentation that puts more distance between me and players which to me is preferable with large scale orchestral and provides more of the hall acoustic that I experience in real life, and this plays better with the Rag. The Utopia is more opaque like I'm in the mix with the players, can reach out and touch them (that oft abused word "palpable" would apply here). I'm liking Utopia with both Jot and Rag for smaller chamber groups, solo performers, Jazz, and Rock, and the 800 on large scale with the Rag. Don't take the terms translucent and opaque in a negative context because I don't mean it that way, but until I can find 2 better words they describe what I'm trying to say... The Utopia also seemed to have a wider dynamic range floor and ceiling, and was slightly quicker on transients allowing for a bit more inner detailing especially when the music gets on the lower levels of the volume scale. But again these impressions are based on only 5 hours of comparisons.
  
 One of the problems with describing in writing sonic differences is a tendency to want to make comparisons of those different aspects of the sound as clear as possible to others in words, and the words chosen can end up making small but significant (or not) differences seem larger than they are (to other listeners). I miss the days when audiophiles would meet at a dealer on Saturday mornings and chew the fat and do the  listening comparisons together with source material that all present had some level of familiarity with. You would all be listening to the same thing at the same time with the same chain of gear. Likes, dislikes and biases were better understood in context, and what's more important, accepted, if not agreed to, without a lot of posturing. Those were the days of up close and in person. There was less of a tendency to be adamant, contentious, and all knowing. It's easy to be a "tough guy" and "bully" with the anonymity of the internet.
  
 After retiring and downsizing and being forced to headphones from 2 channel for top quality sound I've found, as several others have mentioned here at Head-Fi, that settling on one speaker system to meets all my needs  for my music listening requirements was easy by comparison with HP's. I haven't found the one headphone that does it all for me. So, I will be keeping both HD800 and Utopia for the foreseeable future.
  
 You may find the Jot and 800 combo is to your "just right" and worth listening to. If nothing else you don't want to look back later and say "I wonder if..." I like the Jot as much as the rest of the gear in my Schiit lineup with my 800 and Utopia. It's not a runner up headphone amp. But find the Rag or MJ2 a better mate with my HD800 to get what I want to hear the way I want to hear it.


----------



## Nokiron

Fantastic replies both of you. Really appreciate it.


----------



## Soundofmusic

I was really surprised by the quality of the internal dac compared to the Mimby, yes the latter is slightly more resolving but I really have to pay attention to hear those differences. In retrospect I probably wouldn't have bothered with the Mimby.

Initially the Jot+HD650 had fatiguing treble to my ears, but after eq-ing it slightly and getting a balanced cable they've become my new go-to headphones, with fatigue only on a few selected tracks. 
I should add that I'm pretty sensitive to some higher frequencies, I usually wear ear plugs at the cinema.

Still considering grabbing a pair of M1060's or LCD-2F's though.


----------



## droopy1592

sup27606 said:


> Can someone list the headphones that synergize well with the Jot. Don't want to get it just for the Senn 650s. What about the Audeze Sine?


 
  
 I didn't like the sine or the PM3 with the Jot. 

 I mean I think the Jots only real weakness is soundstage and although the sine is better than the pm3 I think both could have used some soundstage help.


----------



## droopy1592

riflemanfirst said:


> I figured as much. Thanks for the reply! Just out of curiosity, any idea what differences in terms of sound signature or quality I could expect with the Jot amp vs the Vali 2?


 
 Just on the previous question mimby> jot dac add on


----------



## alpha421

Just ordered one with black chassis.  I'm stoked.


----------



## piokuro

Yeah the black is great, hats what I got around xmas


----------



## RiflemanFirst

alpha421 said:


> Just ordered one with black chassis.  I'm stoked.


 
  
 Backordered? I really do wish Schiit offered everything in black, or at least did small batches of black chassis/lids every once in a while to order if you already have the normal aluminum lids.


----------



## fdhfdy

amp section on my hugo tt is noticeable better than jot so i sold my silver jot. i had to order a black one since sold my tt as i cant think of anything as goog as jot in the similar price.


----------



## sup27606

droopy1592 said:


> I didn't like the sine or the PM3 with the Jot.
> 
> 
> I mean I think the Jots only real weakness is soundstage and although the sine is better than the pm3 I think both could have used some soundstage help.




Thank you very much for that information. Sine has a narrow soundstage to begin with. So I understand when you say, the jot doesn't do much to add anything to the already narrow soundstage. However, I have the Senn 6XX for soundstage. My other concern is the brightness or harshness in the trebles that some people here commented on about the Jot. Although Sine is not a bright headphone, it also doesn't have rolled off trebles. I am wondering whether it sounds too bright with the Jot.


----------



## MikeW

A lot of the harshness of the combo comes from USB interface. Reclockers dramatically change performance of jot dac. You can clearly hear akm velvet signature with a good reclocker in line. It's significant, especially since jot dac is fully USB powered, something like regen or W4s recovery allows you to slip in your own 5v power, an ifi ipower in my case

That said, some people really dislike akm velvet. I don't mind it, but I couldn't really hear the signature pre reclockers, after it was obvious. 

For those that don't know velvet is marketing speak for the way the dac chip designer voiced the 4490.

There was a significant change to the voicing of akm post velvet.

http://www.akm.com/akm/en/product/featured/velvetsound/

I use a belkin gold USB (with 5v taped) to a W4S Recovery powered with a 9v ipower brick to the Jot USB. There were improvements st each step, the biggest was the recovery, then the power supply, and I'm not sure I heard a difference taping the 5v pin on USB, but it's a free 5 min tweak. I purchased the recovery used, they can be had for around 100$. It's a tweak I will carry forward when I eventually move to mimby/bimby but I feel no great rush as these tweaks really improved things.

USB tweaks are always a ymmv because everyone's system is different. For my system the change was significant, I considered wyred but I believe regen or recovery a superior, I think they both use a much better crystal, the recovery uses a Femto clock.

If your buying new I do recommend skipping the dac and going straight for mimby, but if you already have the jot Dac, a regen or recovery for 100$ or less is a good value and will carry forward to new dac

Edit: in case it's not clear the regen and recovery do come with their own 5v power supplies witch replace your pcs USB power, but you can also replace those with higher quality units, witch may not matter if your dac
Is not USB powerd, but jot is so the tweak pays dividends here, the ipower is the cheapest one I could find (50$) that is worth upgrading to


----------



## schaefer

This amp is great at the price point, though it would be nice if you could get a multibit dac in there as an option...


----------



## Tuneslover

schaefer said:


> This amp is great at the price point, though it would be nice if you could get a multibit dac in there as an option...


 
 Just buy the Modi MB and connect it SE to your Jotunheim.  It's been stated numerous times by Baldr that there isn't enough real estate to fit Multibit into the Jot.


----------



## schaefer

tuneslover said:


> Just buy the Modi MB and connect it SE to your Jotunheim.  It's been stated numerous times by Baldr that there isn't enough real estate to fit Multibit into the Jot.


 
 That is actually what I've ended up doing, however, I was hoping I'd like the delta sigma enough to save space and money on components. But I can't live with less than the modi multibit in the Schiit lineup now that I've used it.


----------



## Tuneslover

schaefer said:


> That is actually what I've ended up doing, however, I was hoping I'd like the delta sigma enough to save space and money on components. But I can't live with less than the modi multibit in the Schiit lineup now that I've used it.


 
 Exactly.


----------



## ilcg1

Got my black Jot (amp only) recently and thinking to pick up black Mimby as well.

I guess my Magni 2U will be for sale soon ...


----------



## NPWS

ilcg1 said:


> Got my black Jot (amp only) recently and thinking to pick up black Mimby as well.
> 
> I guess my Magni 2U will be for sale soon ...


 
 that's super nice color!
 but why the volume knob not black too?


----------



## GearMe

npws said:


> that's super nice color!
> 
> but why the volume knob not black too?




It's the Oakland Las Vegas Raiders commemorative line...


Silver and Black Pride!


----------



## FredQc

Does anyone ever used the Jitterbug with the Jotunheim+DAC ? If so, does it plays better with ?


----------



## lentoviolento

fredqc said:


> Does anyone ever used the Jitterbug with the Jotunheim+DAC ? If so, does it plays better with ?




I had the jitterbug, i used it with dragonlfy.. Pure snake oil


----------



## Mr Rick

lentoviolento said:


> I had the jitterbug, i used it with dragonlfy.. Pure snake oil


 
  
 It might fix a problem, but first you have to have a problem to fix.


----------



## ilcg1

npws said:


> that's super nice color!
> 
> but why the volume knob not black too?




I guess different manufacturers of volume knobs and chassis.


----------



## FLTWS

npws said:


> that's super nice color!
> 
> but why the volume knob not black too?


 
  
 Quote:


ilcg1 said:


> I guess different manufacturers of volume knobs and chassis.


 
  
 I actually like the contrast in color. All my Schiit is silver but if I had the choice, even at extra cost, I would have.... What I like best about black with white is I can actually see the lettering and symbols (per the photos I've seen of black Schiit). The thin black lettering and symbols on silver is difficult for me see without pumping up the lumens to around 10,000!! As I don't sit at a desk with my PC I prefer my listening area dimly lit, more relaxing, more conducive to listening.


----------



## LDBaha

npws said:


> that's super nice color!
> but why the volume knob not black too?


 
 If the XLR output was silver as well, and had other details in silver it would be a good design with the silver knob. 

 I would've gotten it in black if it was better designed or if it was all black.


----------



## GearMe

ldbaha said:


> If the XLR output was silver as well, and had other details in silver it would be a good design with the silver knob.
> 
> 
> *I would've gotten it in black if it was better designed or if it was all black.*




This!


----------



## Byronb

ldbaha said:


> If the XLR output was silver as well, and had other details in silver it would be a good design with the silver knob.
> 
> I would've gotten it in black if it was better designed or if it was all black.


 
 As Jason has stated, the black chassis is basically to cover up for inferior/defective metal work, they are not designing the product for aesthetics. At least this is my understanding, as you, I would hope if they actually designed a black product they would blacken the volume nob as well.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

See my can jam socal writeup for my thoughts on the Jotunheim.



Edit: see my signature


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Does the volume knob come off so that I can hit it with some Matte black paint?


----------



## Mr Rick

waytoocrazy said:


> Does the volume knob come off so that I can hit it with some Matte black paint?


 
  
 You just need the right sized Allen wrench.


----------



## Share2Care

Hey hey Ladies & Gents! 

For connecting the optional DAC module in my Jot, does it have to be a USB 2.0 cable? 

Could I not gey a USB 3.0 or 3.1 A B cable? 

Thanks for your help


----------



## Cruxiaer

AFAIK, USB 3.0/3.1 type B has a different port.


----------



## DangerToast

Hey all. Currently I have my Modi 2U going into my Asgard 2. Would the Jotunheim with the DAC module be an upgrade or sidegrade if I plan on mostly using NON-balanced headphones? Thanks.


----------



## cskippy

IMO, side grade most likely.  Go for a tube hybrid or OTL tube amp if you want something different.  If you plan on using a balanced amp, then that's another story.


----------



## koover

Ok guys, not to smart here.
Trying to hook up my Jot (no DAC) to the Oppo BD93 with no luck.
I'm using this amp solely for Bluray movie audio/video.
What are the labels on the back of the oppo plugins (in or out)and on the back of and the Jot (in or out)?
Any and all help would be appreciated


----------



## Mr Rick

koover said:


> Ok guys, not to smart here.
> Trying to hook up my Jot (no DAC) to the Oppo BD93 with no luck.
> I'm using this amp solely for Bluray movie audio/video.
> What are the labels on the back of the oppo plugins (in or out)and on the back of and the Jot (in or out)?
> Any and all help would be appreciated


 
  
 Line out of OPPO ( FL and FR ) to "SE In" on Jot.
  
 Make sure Input switch on front of JOT is down.


----------



## lentoviolento

dangertoast said:


> Hey all. Currently I have my Modi 2U going into my Asgard 2. Would the Jotunheim with the DAC module be an upgrade or sidegrade if I plan on mostly using NON-balanced headphones? Thanks.


 
  
 it doesn't make sense even for a side grade. unless you want to go balanced but as i said before, balanced is a waste of money. no audible differences... asgard 2 is able to drive almost every hp .


----------



## Psalmanazar

lentoviolento said:


> it doesn't make sense even for a side grade. unless you want to go balanced but as i said before, balanced is a waste of money. no audible differences... asgard 2 is able to drive almost every hp .


 
 I use that same stack. The internal DAC in the Jot is much much worse and the Jot, while faster and cleaner, is much less even tonally than the Asgard 2. There's no reason to upgrade it. Save money for Gungnir multibit if you want a huge upgrade.


----------



## Voxata

I've enjoyed audible differences on my HE560 from balanced thank you. It's not huge, but it's definitely there.


----------



## lentoviolento

psalmanazar said:


> I use that same stack. The internal DAC in the Jot is much much worse and the Jot, while faster and cleaner, is much less even tonally than the Asgard 2. There's no reason to upgrade it. Save money for Gungnir multibit if you want a huge upgrade.




I have mimby.. Do you think gumby would be better? I mean 1000eur better?


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

If you're into saving and not playing into diminishing returns then you might as well get a modi mb


----------



## Taylor Smith

I know this thread is long and full of impressions already, but I wanted to share my experience with the Jot (with DAC) in comparison to the Fostex HP-A4BL. 

This week has been a a whirlwind of auditory adventures that hasn't stopped. Firstly I recieved my pair of LCD-3f's as I waited on the Jot, so the LCD 3s will be my reference point. As a treble sensitive individual I was fully aware of the small reputation schiit's solid states have on others like me, being a little bright. I experienced this with the Magni 2 out of my Focusrite 18i20's like out. The Jot is comparable in many ways: transparent, clean, a little forward in the mid presentation, and less glare in high frequencies. The LCD 3s can be a little peaky at times on its own through my XDUOO XD05, but this glare is a familiar trait with the 2016 fazors it seems. Back in track, while the Jot is less bright to my ears than the Magni, the Jot felt more lean in the bass and mids. It really took life out of the LCD-3s musical sound. The synergy that the Magni had in the midrange is missing to me. 

This led me to purchase the Fostex DAC/ Amp as it was $100 cheaper, with balanced (even if it is not 'truely' balanced). I figured why not? Cokenti my surprise, the Fostex is very on par in terms of presentation. It is not as powerful as the Jot, but powered my 3's sufficiently and I preferred the sound. It is very close to my ears between the two, however I can here some notable differences. 

The Fostex has a little more colorling in center imaging. A little more bloom to the lower mids and bass, a tiny bit more punch. Soundstage feels a fraction less than the Jot's presentation, but I believe this is true because the Fostex tames the highs more than the Jot. It's sweeter than the Jot, that's the best way to describe it. Just a few more granuals of sugar in the tea. The only thing that bothers me is how much I have to crank the volume knob. With the same listening volume ( low gain), The Jot is at 12 and the Fostex is at about 1:30-2. Not a big difference, but still a concern for future proofing. 

Overall, I think I may keep the Fostex over the Jot. I like the slight color the Fostex gives and it's cheaper. The Jot, while good, feels less balanced to me. If anyone else is considering the Jot with the DAC, and prefers a more colored sound, consider the Fostex as well.


----------



## koover

mr rick said:


> Line out of OPPO ( FL and FR ) to "SE In" on Jot.
> 
> Make sure Input switch on front of JOT is down.




Thanx. That's how I hooked it up originally and tried it again.
This time, I turned the Jot volume up and had to go to the AVR and turn the sound down completely. I got audio through the HP's but it was only the music score you could hear with a neary of dialogue. 
I'm confused.
I have a pretty complex HT set up (to me at least) and have a dealer who pretty much does everything.
Any ideas? Do I need to list every component I have for assistance?
I thought this would be very easy and could do it on my own. I obviously hooked it up as you suggested the first time so at least I'm not that helpless. 
I'd rather not have to depend on my dealer to do this plus it could take him a month to even get here.


----------



## jimmers

koover said:


> Thanx. That's how I hooked it up originally and tried it again.
> This time, I turned the Jot volume up and had to go to the AVR and turn the sound down completely. I got audio through the HP's but it was only the music score you could hear with a neary of dialogue.
> I'm confused.
> I have a pretty complex HT set up (to me at least) and have a dealer who pretty much does everything.


 
 Is the Oppo set to mix down to Stereo?


----------



## koover

jimmers said:


> Is the Oppo set to mix down to Stereo?



Went through entire menu and see nothing 
"Stero" 
A little more info please?
Appreciated


----------



## Mr Rick

koover said:


> Went through entire menu and see nothing
> "Stero"
> A little more info please?
> Appreciated


 
 Per your manual:
  
 • If your TV has no digital video input but has component video inputs, please use a set of component video cables to connect the component video output of the player to the TV, and remember to set the “Primary Output” option in the setup menu to “Analog” (please see more details on page 52). The connectors are color coded, so please make sure the cable connections match on both ends. The component video connection will produce a very clear picture with high color accuracy
  
 This is the key:
  
 Set  " Primary output" to "Analog".


----------



## koover

mr rick said:


> Per your manual:
> 
> • If your TV has no digital video input but has component video inputs, please use a set of component video cables to connect the component video output of the player to the TV, and remember to set the “Primary Output” option in the setup menu to “Analog” (please see more details on page 52). The connectors are color coded, so please make sure the cable connections match on both ends. The component video connection will produce a very clear picture with high color accuracy
> 
> ...




Ok so you're saying I'm not going through HDMI anymore? 
I guess I'm just not getting it as you're saying to go into the video settings and change from HDMI to analog. Not trying to be a smart ass because I'm not educated enough in this, but why would I want to go back to component cables? I'm not always going to use my HT under cans. And I also am not understanding why I would go into video settings when it's audio that I'm having issues with. 
You're talking to someone who knows a lot less then you and 99% of everyone on this site.


----------



## Letmebefrank

koover said:


> Ok so you're saying I'm not going through HDMI anymore?
> I guess I'm just not getting it as you're saying to go into the video settings and change from HDMI to analog. Not trying to be a smart ass because I'm not educated enough in this, but why would I want to go back to component cables? I'm not always going to use my HT under cans. And I also am not understanding why I would go into video settings when it's audio that I'm having issues with.
> You're talking to someone who knows a lot less then you and 99% of everyone on this site.




Hdmi also outputs audio, and that audio is probably in 5.1/7.1, and those two formats use the center channel for dialog. Hooking up to the fl/fr outputs on the oppo are outputting the front left and front right channels from the 5.1/7.1 signal.

Edit: page 67 of your owners manual shows how to set the mix to stereo.


----------



## jimmers

koover said:


> Went through entire menu and see nothing
> "Stero"
> A little more info please?
> Appreciated


 
 From page 67 of Oppo Manual
  
 Down Mix Mode to Stereo, see below
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Down mix is the process of converting multi-channel audio to a lesser number of channels. For
 example, converting a 5.1ch source to stereo or converting a 7.1ch source to 5.1ch. Down mixing
 allows the audio output from the player to match the exact number of speakers available in your home
 theater.
 The current down mix mode is displayed in the lower right corner of the speaker placement illustration.
 To change the audio down mix setting, press the ENTER button while the cursor is over the “Down Mix”
 option. The following down mix modes are available:
 FL
 SW
 C FR
 SR
 SBL SBR
 SL LT/RT
 Stereo
 5.1Ch
 7.1Ch
 Speaker Configuration
 Exit
 Choose down mix mode
 Down Mix Mode: 7.1Ch
 Down Mix
 Test Tone : Off
 • LT/RT – Left Total/Right Total. The center and surround channels are mixed into the two front
 channels according to the LT/RT matrix. A Dolby Pro Logic receiver will decode the twochannel
 audio into surround audio.
 • Stereo - This mode down-mixes multi-channel audio to 2-channel stereo output. For original
 stereo content the output will not change. For original multi-channel content the surround and
 center channels will be mixed with the left and right front channels. Recommended for use with
 TV sets or stereo receiver/amplifiers.
 • 5.1Ch – This mode enables 5.1ch decoded


 Edit: I see someone posted already


----------



## koover

letmebefrank said:


> Hdmi also outputs audio, and that audio is probably in 5.1/7.1, and those two formats use the center channel for dialog. Hooking up to the fl/fr outputs on the oppo are outputting the front left and front right channels from the 5.1/7.1 signal.
> 
> Edit: page 67 of your owners manual shows how to set the mix to stereo.




Thank you ever so kindly. I finally got it. Sounds incredible. 
*I appreciate the help from all you guys to get me through my frustration.*
I'm sure I'll get better at this and learn as I go. Plus I got you guys.
This is a really good community. Glad to be part of it and my new world of DACS and amps. Didn't know what I was missing


----------



## Share2Care

koover said:


> Thank you ever so kindly. I finally got it. Sounds incredible.
> *I appreciate the help from all you guys to get me through my frustration.*
> I'm sure I'll get better at this and learn as I go. Plus I got you guys.
> This is a really good community. Glad to be part of it and my new world of DACS and amps. Didn't know what I was missing


 
  
 Could not have said it much better myself to all those who take their time to help, guide, advice, knowledge, sharing and walking you through.
  
 Without this community, I can not imagine deciding to take my love of music much higher without ALL of your help and patience...lots of patience
  
 Thank you for making this place that is open to all and with hardly any looking down from those at the top to those that are just starting their journey. It is a journey and I feel a million times more confident that you are all here.
  
 Cheers


----------



## Letmebefrank

koover said:


> Thank you ever so kindly. I finally got it. Sounds incredible.
> *I appreciate the help from all you guys to get me through my frustration.*
> I'm sure I'll get better at this and learn as I go. Plus I got you guys.
> This is a really good community. Glad to be part of it and my new world of DACS and amps. Didn't know what I was missing




You're very welcome. That's what a forum community is all about; helping each other out.


----------



## Baldr

The above several posts point out exactly why I will never, but never, do any home theater product ever again.


----------



## Letmebefrank

baldr said:


> The above several posts point out exactly why I will never, but never, do any home theater product ever again.




Haha you could just print 20 pages with "Ask the forum." printed in the middle of every page.


----------



## Mr Rick

baldr said:


> The above several posts point out exactly why I will never, but never, do any home theater product ever again.


 
  
 In another life I did trouble-shooting for a (meager) living. So, from time to time, I like these brain teasers.


----------



## tylerchris

share2care said:


> Hey hey Ladies & Gents!
> 
> For connecting the optional DAC module in my Jot, does it have to be a USB 2.0 cable?
> 
> ...


 
  
  


cruxiaer said:


> AFAIK, USB 3.0/3.1 type B has a different port.


 

 Yes, the USB inputs for all DACs I think (but certainly for Schiit's, including the DAC on the Jot) use a USB-B 2.0 connector. The USB-B 3.0 connector (used on external HD enclosures for example) will NOT fit (they have an extra extension part of the connector that makes it bigger than the 2.0 version). It is backwards compatible the other way, ie. if you have a USB-B 2.0 cable, you can insert it into a USB-B 3.0 external HD enclosure, though it will run at 2.0 speeds of course. AFAIK, all USB inputs on DACs use the USB-B 2.0 connector...


----------



## Share2Care

tylerchris said:


> Yes, the USB inputs for all DACs I think (but certainly for Schiit's, including the DAC on the Jot) use a USB-B 2.0 connector. The USB-B 3.0 connector (used on external HD enclosures for example) will NOT fit (they have an extra extension part of the connector that makes it bigger than the 2.0 version). It is backwards compatible the other way, ie. if you have a USB-B 2.0 cable, you can insert it into a USB-B 3.0 external HD enclosure, though it will run at 2.0 speeds of course. AFAIK, all USB inputs on DACs use the USB-B 2.0 connector...


 
 Thanks for letting me know about the differences between the versions of 2.0 to 3.0. Also, that 2.0 can be used on 3.0 but your speed is, of course, limited to USB 2.0 transfer speeds. I knew there must be a reason why! 
  
 Appreciate your help even if it was not the brightest of questions I am afraid.
  
 Cheers


----------



## landroni

baldr said:


> The above several posts point out exactly why I will never, but never, do any home theater product ever again.


 

 So no Schiit Engorger then?


----------



## WayTooCrazy

I haven't ordered from Schiit in a long time, but how long does it normally take for them to respond to your order, pull the funds and actually get the item shipping? Is 3 days normal before you see any progress?


----------



## Mr Rick

waytoocrazy said:


> I haven't ordered from Schiit in a long time, but how long does it normally take for them to respond to your order, pull the funds and actually get the item shipping? Is 3 days normal before you see any progress?


 
  
 If the item is in stock normally the same day, or next day, if you ordered late in the day.
  
  
 Weekends do not count.


----------



## AverageGuyNC

waytoocrazy said:


> I haven't ordered from Schiit in a long time, but how long does it normally take for them to respond to your order, pull the funds and actually get the item shipping? Is 3 days normal before you see any progress?




 I put my order in early in morning and had a shipping confirmation by noon their time


----------



## LDBaha

My Jot took like 5 days to get processed and shipped. 
  


voxata said:


> I've enjoyed audible differences on my HE560 from balanced thank you. It's not huge, but it's definitely there.


  
  

 Totally agree with you. I have the Balanced cable for my HE560s with the Jot. Last night I was doing comparisons between one and the other and besides having a lot more power there is a difference.
  
 Whether you agree if that difference is worth the money on the cable it's up to you. 
  
 By the way I also compared the Jot to the Aune S6 (I bought the Aune first), and also used the Aune as a DAC with the Jot as the Amp. 
 I'll post my impressions when I'm done working either today or tomorrow 
  

  
 Story preview: I'm keeping the Jot and returning the Aune.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

ldbaha said:


> My Jot took like 5 days to get processed and shipped.


 
 There should be something on their page saying "built to order" then. O'well. I have cables and parts coming in to do a Balanced setup... so... It is what it is.


----------



## Share2Care

Just wondering with other peeps HE-400i experience with an SE with the Jot as I am on high gain and volume to around 3pm, so not much more tro go before being at maximum volume.
  
 Anyone else having a similar experience with the Jot? Is it best to move onto a balanced 2.5mm connection for more power so to speak? If so, what cable would be recommended to do the job as the cable I have received with the 2 x 2.5mm jacks is a very small cable indeed! 
  
 Would be great to order a cable within a week and does not need to be made of Unicorn hair as the wire....Hehe  
  
 Please help! 
  
 Cheers


----------



## tuna47

Is the jot a good match for HE1000


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

share2care said:


> Just wondering with other peeps HE-400i experience with an SE with the Jot as I am on high gain and volume to around 3pm, so not much more tro go before being at maximum volume.
> 
> Anyone else having a similar experience with the Jot? Is it best to move onto a balanced 2.5mm connection for more power so to speak? If so, what cable would be recommended to do the job as the cable I have received with the 2 x 2.5mm jacks is a very small cable indeed!
> 
> ...


 
 From the 400i Product page: 93dB. Impedance : 35 Ohms 
  
 Either your hearing is really bad, or your source volume is low? Either way, in the case of the Jotunheim because of the huge difference in power output, balanced will give you more headroom and better sound in general. I was able to get HE6s to volume at 1oclock on high gain, so these will destroy your 400i's in balanced.


----------



## LDBaha

share2care said:


> Just wondering with other peeps HE-400i experience with an SE with the Jot as I am on high gain and volume to around 3pm, so not much more tro go before being at maximum volume.
> 
> Anyone else having a similar experience with the Jot? Is it best to move onto a balanced 2.5mm connection for more power so to speak? If so, what cable would be recommended to do the job as the cable I have received with the 2 x 2.5mm jacks is a very small cable indeed!
> 
> ...




Same thing happens to me with my HE-560s. When using the SE output I can go full tilt and its loud but still tolerable. 

I got the balanced cable and with the XLR output I can't go more than 3pm before I feel my ears are about to explode. 

It's helpful with very low volume songs like some strange DSD tracks


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

psalmanazar said:


> I use that same stack. The internal DAC in the Jot is much much worse and the Jot, while faster and cleaner, is much less even tonally than the Asgard 2. There's no reason to upgrade it. Save money for Gungnir multibit if you want a huge upgrade.


 

 Heck, save money for Yggy!


----------



## Share2Care

thegadaffiduck said:


> From the 400i Product page: 93dB. Impedance : 35 Ohms
> 
> Either your hearing is really bad, or your source volume is low? Either way, in the case of the Jotunheim because of the huge difference in power output, balanced will give you more headroom and better sound in general. I was able to get HE6s to volume at 1oclock on high gain, so these will destroy your 400i's in balanced.




Thanks for replying to my question! 

I will try to change the source, but know a balanced cable is a wise move to make not just for more headroom but also for the length of cable. 

Where have peeps purchased their HE-400i cables from? 

Thank you for yours and others help!

Cheers


----------



## rlkeel0

share2care said:


> Thanks for replying to my question!
> 
> I will try to change the source, but know a balanced cable is a wise move to make not just for more headroom but also for the length of cable.
> 
> ...





I got one of mine from c3audio.com. No frills but a solid well built cable.


----------



## norman88

FYI, these look great in black finish. Schiit brought the option back recently.


----------



## Share2Care

Good Evening Ladies & Gents!
  
 I do hope all is well with all 
  
 Based on discussions with a really nice chap who I got speaking with on this thread @LDBaha about the differences between using an SE connection or the XLR4 connection I recalled that Schiit had kindly given the numbers and the difference between SE and XLR4 connections....There is a very large difference between SE and Balanced Output as you can see below;
  
Balanced Headphone Output:
 Maximum Power, 16 ohms: 7500mW RMS per channel
 Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 5000mW RMS per channel
 Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 3000mW RMS per channel
 Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 900mW RMS per channel
 Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 500mW RMS per channel

Single-Ended Headphone Output:
 Maximum Power, 16 ohms: 2500mW RMS per channel
 Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 1500mW RMS per channel
 Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 800mW RMS per channel
 Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 350mW RMS per channel
 Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 175mW RMS per channel
  
 Hot damn there is a serious amount of power available when using the Balanced Output in comparison to the Single Ended.
  
 If it had not been for my HE400i, I would not have looked further and then remembered...about available power through the XLR4 connection! I then thought I wonder how many Jot peeps may not be using their beautiful AMP / DAC to its fullest ability.
  
 A question is that if you made a cable with a male 4 pin with say 15cm of copper/silver or UNICORN hair  (hehe) and then a female 6.3mm socket, can you then hook up all your headphones through the socket that way and tap into the available power? May just be a foolish / stupid thought?
  
 I am someone who is very new and is very interested in all things audio and appreciates those who take their time to fully explain things to which I owe a <ASSIVE thank you to you all who make Head-Fi what it is.....Audio Paradise . 
  
 Cheers


----------



## Letmebefrank

Do not under any circumstances connect unbalanced cable to a balanced source. You will short the grounds and you could ruin the amp.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

mr rick said:


> If the item is in stock normally the same day, or next day, if you ordered late in the day.
> 
> 
> Weekends do not count.


 
 I ordered mid-day on the 12th. I see the order taken... but no communication after that.
  


averageguync said:


> I put my order in early in morning and had a shipping confirmation by noon their time


 
 I don't mind waiting... I mean, I buy things from China and assume 3 weeks wait... but at least you get some time of updates from them. I haven't heard anything from Schiit after initial order acceptance. If they need to build the unit, that is fine... just say something.


----------



## LDBaha

waytoocrazy said:


> I ordered mid-day on the 12th. I see the order taken... but no communication after that.
> 
> I don't mind waiting... I mean, I buy things from China and assume 3 weeks wait... but at least you get some time of updates from them. I haven't heard anything from Schiit after initial order acceptance. If they need to build the unit, that is fine... just say something.




That's exactly what happened to me. Radio silence until I emailed them 7 days later. The next day they shipped my order


----------



## WayTooCrazy

ldbaha said:


> That's exactly what happened to me. Radio silence until I emailed them 7 days later. The next day they shipped my order



That is poor customer service. They need to get their Schiit together. My first 3 orders were not like that.


----------



## pieman3141

I've been following this thread for quite some time, and I was wondering if there were more people who had impressions of how the HD800 S (or 800 SDR) sounded like with this amp (and the DAC unit). I understand that the regular HD800 sounds quite bad with this amp, but what about the modded versions?


----------



## Share2Care

letmebefrank said:


> Do not under any circumstances connect unbalanced cable to a balanced source. You will short the grounds and you could ruin the amp.


 
 Thank you for highlighting what could be a serious accident. This is why I ask....
  
 Would you be so kind to go a few steps further and explain why? Is it to do with a basic mismatch of wiring from the terminations or something else??
  
 So my lesson today and that goes for us all is never to plug in an unbalanced cable to a balanced out.
  
 Cheers


----------



## Rdwng1975

Put my Jot up for trade if anyone has any interest.


----------



## Letmebefrank

share2care said:


> Thank you for highlighting what could be a serious accident. This is why I ask....
> 
> Would you be so kind to go a few steps further and explain why? Is it to do with a basic mismatch of wiring from the terminations or something else??
> 
> ...




You would be shorting the ground of each side together. In a typical balanced amp both sides are completely separate and connecting them together like this can cause problems. I am by no means an electrician or expert on the matter, this is just what I've always been told.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

@Share2Care You can always purchase 2 of these...

 and one of these

 Grab some Mogami wire and just make your headphones balanced.
  
 Here's even a pic to help you....

  
 I'm actually doing something a little different. I'm going from 4pin XLR (on Jot side) to a female 2.5mm TRRS connector. I have 2 Balanced earphones now, but will be balancing my Sine and building a cable for my other headphones (including one for the TH-X00).


----------



## FredQc

My Schiit was shipped the same day I ordered. Took 3 days to reach Montreal, which is pretty impressive. But now, well... it's been 7 days since my Jot is waiting for being cleared at the Customs in Montreal. I understand we're on holidays, but come on...


----------



## WayTooCrazy

fredqc said:


> My Schiit was shipped the same day I ordered. Took 3 days to reach Montreal, which is pretty impressive. But now, well... it's been 7 days since my Jot is waiting for being cleared at the Customs in Montreal. I understand we're on holidays, but come on...


 
 I just canceled my Jot order. There was no indication on the website that they were "weeks" behind. They notified me on Sunday that it was "ready to ship", but then today told me that I wouldn't see the unit for a few weeks as they are backlogged and I was in the Queue for my unit (again, weeks away).
  
 So now, I think I'm going to look at Audio-GD or others.


----------



## lentoviolento

waytoocrazy said:


> I just canceled my Jot order. There was no indication on the website that they were "weeks" behind. They notified me on Sunday that it was "ready to ship", but then today told me that I wouldn't see the unit for a few weeks as they are backlogged and I was in the Queue for my unit (again, weeks away).
> 
> So now, I think I'm going to look at Audio-GD or others.




I have an audio gd on sale if you are interested. I had it for about 2 months


----------



## koover

waytoocrazy said:


> I just canceled my Jot order. There was no indication on the website that they were "weeks" behind. They notified me on Sunday that it was "ready to ship", but then today told me that I wouldn't see the unit for a few weeks as they are backlogged and I was in the Queue for my unit (again, weeks away).
> 
> So now, I think I'm going to look at Audio-GD or others.




I "almost" did the same.
Same thing happened to me. Their site said backordeed and shipping the week of xxxxx. So when I didnt get the Joy that week, I cancelled it. I also paid for next day shipping becuase my vaca was coming to an end. I was like a little kid with a new toy and wanted to try out and enjoy before going back to work. But..... I changed my mind and kept it. I also told them I wanted my next day shipping charge reversed and they refused. Why would I pay for next day shipping when I wanted it now, wasn't shipped when stated and had to wait? 
Not too impressed with their service levels when you can't even talk to a live person. Only email. You'd think a small company would excel in service levels.


----------



## LDBaha

koover said:


> I "almost" did the same.
> Same thing happened to me. Their site said backordeed and shipping the week of xxxxx. So when I didnt get the Joy that week, I cancelled it. I also paid for next day shipping becuase my vaca was coming to an end. I was like a little kid with a new toy and wanted to try out and enjoy before going back to work. But..... I changed my mind and kept it. I also told them I wanted my next day shipping charge reversed and they refused. Why would I pay for next day shipping when I wanted it now, wasn't shipped when stated and had to wait?
> Not too impressed with their service levels when you can't even talk to a live person. Only email. You'd think a small company would excel in service levels.


 
  
 Yeah they excel on their product line but not their customer service skills, usually it's the other way around with small companies. I believe it's a trade off. But this is an area where they could improve easily. 
  
 My experience was the same with the Jot. I waited a few days, I was about to cancel the order when I got the 'your order has shipped' email. That was lucky on their part. 
  
 However, I am extremely happy with my Jot. I decided to keep it and return the Aune S6.
 Eventually I'll get a Solid Dac and probably upgrade to a Mjolnir2 or something from Woo Audio.


----------



## cskippy

All I can say, is their products are worth the wait.


----------



## norman88

waytoocrazy said:


> I just canceled my Jot order. There was no indication on the website that they were "weeks" behind. They notified me on Sunday that it was "ready to ship", but then today told me that I wouldn't see the unit for a few weeks as they are backlogged and I was in the Queue for my unit (again, weeks away).
> 
> So now, I think I'm going to look at Audio-GD or others.


 
  
 I ran into the exact same problem, and canceled my order a day after placing it since I had e-mailed them asking how long it might take (the answer was weeks). I bought one off Ebay for $100 less and got it in three days.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Actually, the first line on every product page gives stocking status. We keep them pretty up-to-the-minute.
  
 Apologies if we occasionally miss--we're trying to ensure that all products are always in stock, but ongoing vagaries with metal and hard-to-get parts makes this difficult. Consider that some of the parts on Jotunheim have 16 week lead times.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

jason stoddard said:


> Actually, the first line on every product page gives stocking status. We keep them pretty up-to-the-minute.
> 
> Apologies if we occasionally miss--we're trying to ensure that all products are always in stock, but ongoing vagaries with metal and hard-to-get parts makes this difficult. Consider that some of the parts on Jotunheim have 16 week lead times.


 
 If I missed the "status" line previously, then I apologize (I do not recall seeing it). Though, it indicated status for "non-Dac" units in stock. I ordered a "black" version sans DAC. The black units are also back-ordered?


----------



## Mr Rick

norman88 said:


> I ran into the exact same problem, and canceled my order a day after placing it since I had e-mailed them asking how long it might take (the answer was weeks). I bought one off Ebay for $100 less and got it in three days.


 
  
 I ordered a Mani this morning, and got the shipping notice in less then an hour. This my fifth or sixth order from them and my experience has always been the same.
  
 I always order items they have in stock.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

waytoocrazy said:


> If I missed the "status" line previously, then I apologize (I do not recall seeing it). Though, it indicated status for "non-Dac" units in stock. I ordered a "black" version sans DAC. The black units are also back-ordered?


 

 The "STATUS:" line is always there, on every product.
  
 Also, if you have any questions about orders, orders@schiit.com gets you answers in minutes during regular business hours.


----------



## koover

jason stoddard said:


> The "STATUS:" line is always there, on every product.
> 
> Also, if you have any questions about orders, orders@schiit.com gets you answers in minutes during regular business hours.




With all due respect, once in stock my Jot did arrive quickly.....obviously next day shipping.
Also, I ordered a Magni Uber/ Modi 2 stack off Amazon late night last Sunday with standard shipping and received around noon on Tuesday. Go figure.
I also will say, never purchasing Shiit products before and with limited experience/knowledge on my behalf, I'm extremely impressed with all 3 units I purchased.
I'm glad I didn't cancel my original Jot order.
Lastly, very cool you responded representing your brand. I always believe any company that involves themselves with the community on boards like this says a lot about that company.
So, maybe I'm wrong with my thought process with your companies service levels.
Take care...


----------



## mks100

jason stoddard said:


> The "STATUS:" line is always there, on every product.
> 
> Also, if you have any questions about orders, orders@schiit.com gets you answers in minutes during regular business hours.


 
 Apologies Jason.  Does the current message on the Site mean the Black is In Stock or would I need to send an email to orders@schiit.com to confirm?  Prior to today, the message displayed said (and I am paraphrasing here) "STATUS:  Backordered.  Orders expected to ship the Week of March 31st".  This message did not change until today and has remained unchanged since (at least) March 31st.  Here is the current STATUS message displayed...
  
 "STATUS: Jotunheim DAC Backordered—orders placed today are expected to ship the week of May 6th. Jotunheim without DAC in stock. Orders placed today are expected to ship in 1 to 3 business days."
  
 ...thank you sir.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

mks100 said:


> Apologies Jason.  Does the current message on the Site mean the Black is In Stock or would I need to send an email to orders@schiit.com to confirm?  Prior to today, the message displayed said (and I am paraphrasing here) "STATUS:  Backordered.  Orders expected to ship the Week of March 31st".  This message did not change until today and has remained unchanged since (at least) March 31st.  Here is the current STATUS message displayed...
> 
> "STATUS: Jotunheim DAC Backordered—orders placed today are expected to ship the week of May 6th. Jotunheim without DAC in stock. Orders placed today are expected to ship in 1 to 3 business days."
> 
> ...thank you sir.




Yep, we shouldn't have any problems shipping Jots without DACs. If you have any questions, just email orders@schiit.com--they get back quickly as long as it's 8-5 PST, M-F.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Has anyone tried the Balanced input vs SE? Does it sound different if the intent is to use balanced headphones?


----------



## Cruxiaer

waytoocrazy said:


> Has anyone tried the Balanced input vs SE? Does it sound different if the intent is to use balanced headphones?


 
 Yes it sounds different. To put it shortly the balanced output sounds like a more full bodied sound. Much solid all around. I ordered it for the sole purpose of using it balanced only.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

cruxiaer said:


> Yes it sounds different. To put it shortly the balanced output sounds like a more full bodied sound. Much solid all around. I ordered it for the sole purpose of using it balanced only.


 
 I was actually asking about the "input" not so much info on the Output of the unit.  I too purchased the unit solely for the Balanced out.


----------



## cskippy

For me, the inputs are the same minus the gain increase from balanced signal.  Whether your DACs single ended and balanced outputs sound the same is another story.


----------



## lentoviolento

cskippy said:


> For me, the inputs are the same minus the gain increase from balanced signal.  Whether your DACs single ended and balanced outputs sound the same is another story.


 
  
 same story for the output...


----------



## cskippy

True.  Balanced output will sound different if the headphones really need the extra driver control provided by the additional power of balanced operation.  Efficient headphones will just be louder.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Anyone build one of these?


----------



## cskippy

Is that 4pin XLR to TRRS?  If it's balanced to anything other than balanced you'll have a very bad day.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

cskippy said:


> Is that 4pin XLR to TRRS?  If it's balanced to anything other than balanced you'll have a very bad day.


 
 Your original assumption is correct. 4 pin XLR to 2.5mm TRRS A&K style.


----------



## corsiva

-Bought an expensive z270 asus motherboard, SupremeFX audio, Sabre ES9023P DAC and Texas Instruments RV4580 OP-amp.
  
 -Proceeded to hear crackle, distortions when frequency went too high or too low, and had to heavily EQ for meh sound.
  
 -Spent 3 months researching, namely this place. 
  
 -Had Mr Speakers Aeon on my forecast, Balanced cables and all, so narrowed my criteria.
  
 -Called Mr Speakers, and was told they use the Jotunheim in house for business. 
  
 -Spent 2 weeks going through this long long LONG thread...
  
 -Bought the Jotunheim, and on the whim, opted not to get the internal dac but the Modi Multibit.
  
 -Got it plugged in, was satisfied, very much so. Tested all my songs, and no distortion/crackle/static.
  
 -2 hours later, things got better. Was more happy. Got even better after leaving it on all night.
  
  
 Just wanted to say thanks for the help, all!
  
  
  
 Currently using a humble set of Viso HP50 and they sound so much better on the new setup than the old one through onboard audio. I expect no less, but when I fired up my first game I was absolutely blown away by the difference. I had read about the Modi Multibit having high latency, and I couldn't even remotely tell anything was off. 
  
 I think, aside from the overall sound in music and gaming bring so much more crisp, that it was the soundstage and imaging that's surprised me the most. Movies with a lot of action scenes are phenomenal, as far as improvements.


----------



## MikeW

I also have an asus motherboard (Z170) with Supreme Audio, and it's quite abit better then my previous motherboards, and integrated solutions. But it's no match for even the Jotunheim's internal dac. You may consider something like Regen/Recovery, or even Xmos F1 to get a bit more out of modi. I don't know what kind of difference it will make with Modi, but some have claimed improvement even with Yggy vs XMOS F1. The difference was large with jotunheim's dac.


----------



## corsiva

Well I went from a z87 with the realtek 898 with the soundblaster x-fi mb3. Wasn't bad, and was all i knew. The SupremeFX did seem better, but with no EQ at all it sounded extremely muddy with the hp50's. I settled for deep and bright, for the best sound i could get from them without too much work. 
  
 The Modi MB+Jot however has no EQ going on in the system anywhere and just sounds so dang good. 
  
 I will look into the Regen/Recovery and Xmos F1. Thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## alpha421

Loving the Jot.  The first day of listening was just "ok."  After a week, it's now "great."  Anybody else has a unbalance unit where there bottom chassis isn't perfectly flat from side to side?  My unit left front side sits slightly lowering than the lower right.  Not a big deal unless I was pushing down the lower right corner all day, but honestly didn't expect it.


----------



## oldschool

alpha421 said:


> Anybody else has a unbalance unit where there bottom chassis isn't perfectly flat from side to side?  My unit left front side sits slightly lowering than the lower right.  Not a big deal unless I was pushing down the lower right corner all day, but honestly didn't expect it.


 
  
 My unit is missing the bottom position markings of the front panel switches, and the switches themselves are not aligned well. Some quality control issues there, didn't expect it too but can live with it.


----------



## cskippy

I would contact Schiit for a replacement.  That's not normal.


----------



## FLTWS

cskippy said:


> I would contact Schiit for a replacement.  That's not normal.


 
  
 Absolutely


----------



## WayTooCrazy

My Jot will be here on Saturday... I hope it isn't tweaked or rushed in any way. Ugh!  Sorry to hear about you other guys who are noticing QC issues.


----------



## Routes

Yeah, definitely contact them ASAP. That does not sound normal at all.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Now I'm ready for the amp to arrive tomorrow...


----------



## jimmers

waytoocrazy said:


> Now I'm ready for the amp to arrive tomorrow...


 
 Shiny


----------



## ZenErik

Will hopefully have one of these in 2-3 weeks to try with my Elear. Pretty excited to finally try a balanced setup.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

It just arrived. 

  
 Didn't know (nor have I really read through this thread)... that plugging in headphones does not mute the Output to my Desktop speakers. O'well... another step added.


----------



## cskippy

Just put you speakers or power amp for passive speakers on a separate power strip.  I have mine with in reach on the floor so it's an easy foot press to turn on.


----------



## dr cornelius

waytoocrazy said:


> It just arrived.
> 
> 
> Didn't know (nor have I really read through this thread)... that plugging in headphones does not mute the Output to my Desktop speakers. O'well... another step added.


 

 The black looks really nice.  Yeah, the power buttons are right on the back of my monitors, so I switch them on and off since they’re right on my desktop.  Be careful with the gain switch when you’re using your speakers!


----------



## WayTooCrazy

cskippy said:


> Just put you speakers or power amp for passive speakers on a separate power strip.  I have mine with in reach on the floor so it's an easy foot press to turn on.


 
  
  


dr cornelius said:


> The black looks really nice.  Yeah, the power buttons are right on the back of my monitors, so I switch them on and off since they’re right on my desktop.  Be careful with the gain switch when you’re using your speakers!


 
 I think it will be just easier for me to reach over and turn the volume down to "0" on my Active X-over. Though... great ideas of the power strip... I'd have to put the X-over, speakers and sub all on that power strip.


----------



## Tuneslover

waytoocrazy said:


> I think it will be just easier for me to reach over and turn the volume down to "0" on my Active X-over. Though... great ideas of the power strip... I'd have to put the X-over, speakers and sub all on that power strip.


 
 Yeah I used to turn my powered speakers on/off but more often than not I forgot to turn off the speakers which would surprise me at the next listening session whenI turned the system on and they sprang to life.  Finally had enough of that and put a SYS into the system.  Much better.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

tuneslover said:


> Yeah I used to turn my powered speakers on/off but more often than not I forgot to turn off the speakers which would surprise me at the next listening session whenI turned the system on and they sprang to life.  Finally had enough of that and put a SYS into the system.  Much better.


 
 Very true... totally forgot about the SYS. I used to have one with my old Schiit stack. I knew I should've held onto it.


----------



## Cruxiaer

Ordered mine from a distributor here in Australia. Been waiting for almost 2 months now (ordered on 25th Feb)


----------



## jimmers

cruxiaer said:


> Ordered mine from a retailer here in Australia. Been waiting for almost 2 months now (ordered on 25th Feb)


 
 Wow, that's unlucky. I ordered mine from the Australian distributor last September, they were out of stock, back-ordered, but it still only took 10 days from order to delivery.


----------



## lowrider007

I have done a search in this thread for the 'K712' and barely anything came up which surprised me, anyone have this amp paired with these headphones? I currently have them paired with an M-Stage HPA-1 and I find them a little too warm sounding, I tempted to say slightly muddy? perhaps the 5ohm output of the HPA-1 doesn't pair well with the K712's?, I want them to sound more upfront, lively, less warmth.


----------



## FredQc

My Jot just got released from Customs clearance after 15 days... what a long wait...
  
 Anyways, it should be here by Thursday now. Exciting!


----------



## Bacon Bits

cskippy said:


> Just put you speakers or power amp for passive speakers on a separate power strip.  I have mine with in reach on the floor so it's an easy foot press to turn on.



But that's cheating.


----------



## cskippy

Nah, this is cheating...


----------



## CarlosUnchained

cskippy said:


> Nah, this is cheating...


 
  
 I really like the feeling of those foot pedals. DIY or final product?


----------



## cskippy

Not mine, just a googly image I found.


----------



## FredQc (Apr 26, 2017)

Finally received the Jot! What a great piece of equipment! It drives my HD-650 like a champ with a really realistic sound. What an upgrade from the internal amp of my motherboard... Also tested as a preamp / dac combination in-between my MacBook Air and Emotiva XPA-2 amp. The results: silky smooth sound with lots of micro-details and a very defined bass. This is definitely a step-up from the Oppo BDP-105.

Only downside is the total price to my door which is nearly $900 CAD ...

Recommended, 9/10


----------



## iAudio365

I have a chord mojo already I was thinking of pairing with a jotunheim amp only when I get it, but would a bitfrost multibit be a better pairing option? Can anyone tell me? 

I know for certain they stack and look awesome together but will it sound great as well? Or just use the chord mojo?


----------



## theveterans

Stick with Mojo as it sounds better with headphones than Bifrost Multibit unless you prefer a more analytical sound


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Mojo and Jot work quite well together. I just wish I could get rid of the charging Whine that I get from it (Mojo).


----------



## iAudio365

Great thanks for the replies guys, just ordered the black jot and will use it with my mojo.

Thanks again


----------



## SundayDriver (Apr 27, 2017)

After spending considerable time at the Schiit and Focal CanJam NY tables auditioning Jot, I finally got around to purchasing one, in black.

I am even more impressed with Jot now than I was in CanJam. Cannot say enough good things about the sounds coming out of this device. Simply A and B'ing the unbalanced headphone output of a different dac/amp combo (that shall remain nameless) revealed that there wasn't any competition at all with the Jot blowing it of the water.

One item I did briefly ponder- other than pure convenience and more inputs and outputs, is there really a need for RCA in and out at all? A simple adapter will convert.


----------



## cskippy

Adapters aren't always the best option as some gear doesn't like shorting or floating pins depending on the source and cable used.  

The correct way is to use a XLR to RCA transformer such as the Jensen Isomax, there are also cheaper alternatives such as the Radial Pro D2.


----------



## sonic2911

anyone have the black jot pictures? Is the case quality same as the silver one?


----------



## MWSVette

Look back one page for pictures of a black Jot.
And yes other than black the quality is the same.


----------



## ZenErik

So happy with this amp! Just got one in earlier for my Elear. Unless the Mjolnir 2 + Gungnir multibit itch becomes much stronger I think I'll be with this amp for a while. The sound is very pleasing.


----------



## sup27606

I want to report an observation I made with cables and adapters. I have a ponoplayer balanced cable from Venus Audio that I use with the Sennheiser 6xx. When I got the Jot, I bought an adapter from Dyson Audio to convert the dual TRS jacks of the ponoplayer cable to 4 pin XLR to use with the balanced out of Jot. The result was worse than I expected. The treble was subdued and the bass became muddy. Compared to the SE out, the difference was clear. Not sure what the problem was, I decided to buy another balanced cable with Litzy copper wire and XLR connector for $65 from Amazon. The result now is night and day. All the issues with the previous cable/adapter solved and I can really hear the sound everybody talks about in this thread. It seems like, somewhere in the jacks and adapters, the signal was spoiled. Since I am not electrical engineer, no clue what the problem was.

On a different note, I find the DAC inside the ponoplayer pairs very well with Jot. I am using the balanced out of the Ponoplayer to feed into the Jot, then listening thru balanced headphone out. Comparing the same flac files thru Mac/Audirvana-->Jot internal DAC, the sound was more congested with less instrument separation, although the difference is subtle. So I am sticking to the ponoplayer as DAC for now. Has anyone compared the ponoplayer DAC to that of the mimby for instance?


----------



## Greeni

Anyone like to comment on the tonality of the Schiit Jotunheim ? Some review describe it has having a layer of haze while others say it reproduce tonal colors well. While we all hear things differently, those sounds to me as qualities at variance, so just like to have opinion from someone actually owing the unit.


----------



## cskippy

Others can describe it in more detail but I find it has great neutrality, dynamics, and stage width.  It lacks some stage depth, center image is somewhat blurry, and it can have a edginess in the treble, some call it a glare.  Leaving it on 24/7 and using balanced connections throughout make it a stand out amp.  I sold my Liquid Carbon, and it beats the rest of my amps even Zana Deux for clarity, lack of mush/warmth, and great dynamics.


----------



## dr cornelius

If I could sum up the sound in one word I’d say _refined_...  Even with a pair of Grado RS 2e’s, I don’t hear glare - but if your headphones are bright - they’ll sound bright.  Running a pair of Genelecs the sound is as detailed and neutral as I’ve heard  in any recording studio.


----------



## earnmyturns

Greeni said:


> Anyone like to comment on the tonality of the Schiit Jotunheim ? Some review describe it has having a layer of haze while others say it reproduce tonal colors well. While we all hear things differently, those sounds to me as qualities at variance, so just like to have opinion from someone actually owing the unit.


Like @cskippy I sold a Liquid Carbon and kept my Jot. However, the Jot is very revealing of anything amiss upstream, whether the equipment or the recording, so I can imagine that some listeners heard "haze" that they had not heard before because their previous amps masked it.


----------



## MWSVette

cskippy said:


> Others can describe it in more detail but I find it has great neutrality, dynamics, and stage width.  It lacks some stage depth, center image is somewhat blurry, and it can have a edginess in the treble, some call it a glare.  Leaving it on 24/7 and using balanced connections throughout make it a stand out amp.  I sold my Liquid Carbon, and it beats the rest of my amps even Zana Deux for clarity, lack of mush/warmth, and great dynamics.



WOW, I finally figured out how to quote.  YAY...



That said I agree with this quote...


----------



## Gibson59

Regretfully I returned my Jot. Just didn't do enough with the HE1000 v2 for me. Didn't sound terrible by any means, but didn't bring out the best in the headphones that other amps did. I much preferred the sound of the Wells Audio Milo, Woo WA22 and WA6 SE, Moon 230HAD and iFi iCan Pro. Those are all a much higher price points (between $1,100-$2k) so i'm not surprised. Also, as many have stated time and time again the Jot put up a good fight against these other amps and remains in my mind great price to performance. It did sound wonderful with my easy to drive Sony Z1R. The Jot sounded better (more open sound stage, better control, more resolving) from the balanced out out than SE which is no surprise. At this price point I can see some people being fine with the Jot/HE1000 combo but it wasn't enough for me.  Put simply, the higher priced options were able to make the HE1000 v2 sound extremely special and eek out every little bit of quality that I expect from end game headphones, whereas out of the Jot they only sounded pretty good and lacked that extra bit of something almost inexplicable that i'm looking for in TOTL headphones. I'll add this is all IMO and YMMV. This is not meant to put down the Jot as it is a tough competitor against some of the big boys. Just wanted to share my experience for others who may be looking for an amp that brings out the absolute best in the HE1000 v2.


----------



## FredQc

Hi again!  Still love my Jotty and I use it much everywhere in the house 

Now, let's say I play a file in FLAC 24/96 in Foobar2000, how can I be sure that it's been sent in this very format to the Jotty ? Because there's no light or indicator about this.

Thanks


----------



## theveterans

FredQc said:


> Hi again!  Still love my Jotty and I use it much everywhere in the house
> 
> Now, let's say I play a file in FLAC 24/96 in Foobar2000, how can I be sure that it's been sent in this very format to the Jotty ? Because there's no light or indicator about this.
> 
> Thanks



Use ASIO as it always sends bit-perfect to your DAC


----------



## FredQc

theveterans said:


> Use ASIO as it always sends bit-perfect to your DAC



Thank you. I was using the WASAPI output.


----------



## theveterans

FredQc said:


> Thank you. I was using the WASAPI output.



WASAPI works perfect too as it also bypasses Windows Mixer and sends the exact bit and sample rate to your Jot. As long as you can't control the volume in the sound properties, you're set to get bit-perfect


----------



## Cruxiaer (May 2, 2017)

Just got a used unit, got tired of waiting for a new one.

Wondering if anyone had the usb noise issue with the Jot w DAC? The whine is not always there, it comes out very occasionally.


----------



## theveterans

Cruxiaer said:


> Just got a used unit, got tired of waiting for a new one.
> 
> Wondering if anyone had the usb noise issue with the Jot w DAC? The whine is not always there, it comes out very occasionally.



Put away your LTE/3G/4G phone away due to RF interference. If you're using WiFi, switch to the 5GHz band as it causes less interference than the 2.4 GHz band


----------



## Cruxiaer (May 3, 2017)

theveterans said:


> Put away your LTE/3G/4G phone away due to RF interference. If you're using WiFi, switch to the 5GHz band as it causes less interference than the 2.4 GHz band


Ah silly of me not to think of it. Because I currently have my Jot under the table on top of a little shelf and I have my phones (multiple) on my table 10cm directly above the Jot.

UPDATE: Doesn't help, unfortunately the whine still comes out once or twice every hour.

The whining is electrical that comes out from my audio output. It is not always there but when it is, I can hear it. I notice it about once or twice every hour? Not entirely sure. This issue is also present using the onboard soundcard 3.5mm out to speakers/headphones.

Have tried different USB ports, same result.


----------



## sup27606

Cruxiaer said:


> Ah silly of me not to think of it. Because I currently have my Jot under the table on top of a little shelf and I have my phones (multiple) on my table 10cm directly above the Jot.
> 
> UPDATE: Doesn't help, unfortunately the whine still comes out once or twice every hour.
> 
> ...




If it is audible from your 3.5 mm port, then it may not be an USB issue, right? Seems like, its originating in how your computer processes your music into digital signal. Sometimes, when my computer is multitasking with high cpu usage, I have seen occasional drop in audio quality, with breaks and noises. Could it be that?


----------



## theveterans

sup27606 said:


> If it is audible from your 3.5 mm port, then it may not be an USB issue, right? Seems like, its originating in how your computer processes your music into digital signal. Sometimes, when my computer is multitasking with high cpu usage, I have seen occasional drop in audio quality, with breaks and noises. Could it be that?



If that's the OP's case, OP can get something like a sonore microrendu to fix the issue


----------



## Letmebefrank

Man that's like getting a flat tire and instead of fixing your flat, you buy a new car.


----------



## GearMe

Good analogy.  That said, in addition to removing the PC sound quality issues, a network player can simplify things as well making it useful for the tech-fearing users in your household.

I got a Pioneer Elite N-50 for $339...it's easy to use with the Remote or the ControlApp, has multiple digital in and out, and also analog out.


----------



## MikeW

There's either something wrong with your JOT, or it's just noise issue on USB. You could try something like a WYRD, Recovery, or Regen. WYRD can be had for 50-75$ used, and the regen/recovery 90-120$. I think the regen/recovery are worth their extra cost over wyrd. They have better clocks.

You could verify with a laptop or other PC source.


----------



## Cruxiaer

I suspect it might be the power. I've changed power outlet and even removed the USB when the whining happened and the whining just persisted even after I removed the connection. Can a AVR (automatic voltage regulator or UPS) help with this?


----------



## WayTooCrazy (May 7, 2017)

@Cruxiaer I get that out of my Mojo (when trickle charging). I believe my power is dirty. I'm leaning heavily at getting this...

Furman PST-8D
...which will also help my PC and Desktop speakers as well.

Rant: Stupid new forum format won't let you link a pic to the website (as far as I can tell so far). Maybe if using full-size instead of thumbnail.


----------



## jamweiser

https://www.amazon.com/Furman-PST-8D-Aluminum-8-Outlet-Conditioning/dp/B0009GI7NC


----------



## Letmebefrank

That's a great power strip, removed absolutely all noise from my desktop audio system.


----------



## theveterans

I use the bulkier Furman PL-8C and not only it silenced Mojo's charging and USB noise, it also silenced the idle noise of the poweramps inside the Yamaha HS7s too.


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## Cruxiaer (May 7, 2017)

I'm in Australia so I don't plan to spend the cost of shipping over here. Any idea if something like a voltage regulator will work as well? Like the APC Line R 1200VA.




Or should I get one of those APC Sinewave UPS unit? I can get almost all APC product here.


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## SundayDriver

If you're having continuous hum, it's likely a ground loop issue, which would not be resolved with a power conditioner or powered usb hub. Jot uses a three pin power cable, so if you have other electronic devices like a computer with a three pin power cable sharing the same ground as Jot, you may end up hearing ground loop hum. While it's strongly discouraged for permanent use, you can can get a cheap cheater plug (not sure if available in Australia?) to convert three pin to two pin and break the ground loop to test if this is the issue.


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## WayTooCrazy

theveterans said:


> I use the bulkier Furman PL-8C and not only it silenced Mojo's charging and USB noise, it also silenced the idle noise of the poweramps inside the Yamaha HS7s too.



You use that at a Desk, or in a rack?  I could actually get it for my rack... as it is on the other side of the wall from my server rack and UPS.  I'm just wondering if I run a couple of powerstrips off of that, I kill the unit and it's purpose.


----------



## Ninadada

earnmyturns said:


> Have a Bimby, not Mimby, connected by very short RCAs (Schiit's own PYST cables) to my Jot. No hiss whatsoever. I suspect the long, poorly shielded cables you are using are picking electrical noise from the environment. IMHO, for cables the shorter the better, so I'd go as short as possible for the Mimby>Jot connection, which could be shorter than the 3ft you are planning.


I have same configuration.  Bimby to Jot with 6" PYST cables.  No hiss.


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## WayTooCrazy

I use PC>Optical>Mojo>DIY Toxic Cables Silver (3.5mm to RCA) and I do not receive hiss either.


----------



## tuna47

Use Mac to mojo to jot to he1000
Use black dragon cables single ended no problems


----------



## sbninja

I just ordered a Jotunheim amp last night! I cant wait. I was trying to decide between the Ragnarok and the Mjolnir 2. 

Currently I have an Yggdrasil and an Asgard 2 running my new HD800 S headphones. I also have a pair of Presonus eris e5 monitors (powered) - so I didn't really nead all that the Ragnarok had to offer And I wasn't too sure about going "tube" route. I wanted a balanced amp....... I hadn't really taken notice of the new Jotunheim. But is seems that this is pretty much what I am looking for. For the price, I feel it's a no brainer.


----------



## Ninadada

sbninja said:


> I just ordered a Jotunheim amp last night! I cant wait. I was trying to decide between the Ragnarok and the Mjolnir 2.
> 
> Currently I have an Yggdrasil and an Asgard 2 running my new HD800 S headphones. I also have a pair of Presonus eris e5 monitors (powered) - so I didn't really nead all that the Ragnarok had to offer And I wasn't too sure about going "tube" route. I wanted a balanced amp....... I hadn't really taken notice of the new Jotunheim. But is seems that this is pretty much what I am looking for. For the price, I feel it's a no brainer.


I'm enjoying the MB Bifrost I purchased from you with my Jotunheim!  I envy your Yggy.  Please let us know how it pairs with the Jotunheim.  I'm curious if the Jotunheim is resolving enough to enjoy Yggy's full potential.


----------



## sbninja

Ninadada said:


> I'm enjoying the MB Bifrost I purchased from you with my Jotunheim!  I envy your Yggy.  Please let us know how it pairs with the Jotunheim.  I'm curious if the Jotunheim is resolving enough to enjoy Yggy's full potential.



Really, glad your enjoying the Bimby! It is really one heck of a DAC!. Right now my Yggy with the Asgard 2 sound really nice. So with the specs on the Jotunheim, i'm expecting some good Schiit!


----------



## zackzack

I get the feeling we might see a dedicated Jotunheim-sized balanced DAC to go with the Jot amp unit. Or they might upgrade Bifrost with balanced design (unlikely).
If Schiit make this taller with more digital options like Optical, I would buy this in a second.


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## HansPeter

zackzack said:


> I get the feeling we might see a dedicated Jotunheim-sized balanced DAC to go with the Jot amp unit. Or they might upgrade Bifrost with balanced design (unlikely).
> If Schiit make this taller with more digital options like Optical, I would buy this in a second.



That would be really nice, the L-Bend Jotunheim Stacked with the U-Bend Bifrost is to much for my OCD 

What altough would be nice if the Jotunheim would be avaliable again in some Corner of Europe


----------



## sbninja

sbninja said:


> I just ordered a Jotunheim amp last night! I cant wait. I was trying to decide between the Ragnarok and the Mjolnir 2.
> 
> Currently I have an Yggdrasil and an Asgard 2 running my new HD800 S headphones. I also have a pair of Presonus eris e5 monitors (powered) - so I didn't really nead all that the Ragnarok had to offer And I wasn't too sure about going "tube" route. I wanted a balanced amp....... I hadn't really taken notice of the new Jotunheim. But is seems that this is pretty much what I am looking for. For the price, I feel it's a no brainer.



Ok, I received my new Jotunheim (amp only) yesterday.  I listened for a short while immediatley after opening the package. I feel it is an improvement over my Asgard 2. listening  now , balanced from Yggy and balanced out to HD800 S. I hate to just carbon copy what most of you have been reading here and elsewhere.... But, more clarity, imaging is better. Instrument seperation is also better. more "holographic", soundstage seems a bit larger. i can "hear" more of my music......like echoes after drum and symbol hits. to me, it is a definite improvement over my Asgard 2. 
Bass hits harder tighter , mids and highs are crisper. 

Though, I do wonder how much, if any, improvement i'm missing out from the Ragnarok.


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## sup27606

To those who own both the Jot with DAC and Mimby, how much of an upgrade in sound quality is there while going from the Jot-DAC to the Mimby. I am trying to decide whether to spend $200+ for a dedicated DAC. Which are the areas where you see improvement. Is there a wider/deeper soundstage. Are the notes more prominent? Is the bass more visceral? Most importantly, will there be a readily detectable improvement in SQ or is it more subtle?

I hate to ask this, after so much has been discussed, but I couldn't find the answer to my question in this thread. Many people have stated there is going to be an improvement in SQ in Mimby, but I am looking for a more critical assessment.
Thanks in advance.


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## Chrismust

To start, I will need to say sorry to you guys for my English as English is not my native language...And this review is only for those who is going to purchase their first DAC/AMP or seeking an upgrade from a non-audiophile grade DAC/AMP

I have owned my Jot with DAC module for around 2 months and I truly want to share my 2 cent for anyone who's deciding to get Jot, as a non audiophile but whom appreciate good sound,

Firstly, in order to get you guys a reference baseline, I may need to say all experience I have was based on this configuration: PC(foobar 2000) -> Jotunheim with DAC -> HD650 stock cable. And my previous setups as reference are: PC(foobar 2000) -> HD598 / PC(foobar 2000) ->  Yamaha rx-v481 -> Elac B6 /  PC(foobar 2000) ->  Audio Engine A2+ (I knew,,,Headphone vs speaker is incomparable...As an non-golden-ear who just only enjoy crystal clear and immersing music).

Overall, Jot with DAC gave me entirely audible improvement in terms of headphone listening experience and more versatile in listening all different kinds of music. My words sound complicated and somehow conservative? Let me finshi.

We start with Pros and Cons (remember they're based on with my references...look above)

Pros:

1. Sounds are significantly improved than not using them. Sounds totally useless huh? Look what I see at the beginning (this review is only for those who is going to purchase their first DAC/AMP or seeking an upgrade from a non-audiophile grade DAC/AMP). I actually think my this point make more sense than most other review. This DAC/AMP is just 399+ USD and it clearly target at those first DAC/AMP buyer who's seeking better sound not some "ultra beautiful" "mind-blowing" sound that average person could distinguish. I just want to say, plug your headphone(decent heaphone! like 598 at least) in this will give you audiblke sound quality improvment(I didn't say sound feeling improvement yet). Voice sounds more concentrated and dense and less noise, you feel the sound is more controllable. I wouldn't comment on high/mid/low end now. Why? Please see blow. It's not just about volume, simply because they're powerful and more than powerful, simply judging this DAC/AMP by its volume is kind of under-estimating this DAC/AMP and even the whole industry.I can say that it wil bring you more than volume also the sould quality. Of course, like us, getting our 300 ohms headphne sound loud enough is als important. I guarentee you this does this job and more than you expect!

2. They are powerful for (this review is only for those who is going to purchase their first DAC/AMP or seeking an upgrade from a non-audiophile grade DAC/AMP). I mainly purcheased this unit because I want to have a HD650 as my primary headphoen and I need they are hunger for power. I can reassure you, this is for moe than enough. In high gain mode, you only need to turn the knob to 12 o'clock then it sound loud enough to hurt your ears (ok, my ears). Not actually sufficiently qualified to make this comment, considering the fact that H650 is pretty easy to drive even they are 300 ohms. But like I say above, this review is only for those who is going to purchase their first DAC/AMP or seeking an upgrade from a non-audiophile grade DAC/AMP. This group of people are more likely start with HD650 not stuff like HE6.

3. Balanced output/input. I don't know if I really want to talk about this, since I am still happy with my HD650 with SE cable. But at least it give you the choice. But, look at my first statement above, (this review is only for those who is going to purchase their first DAC/AMP or seeking an upgrade from a non-audiophile grade DAC/AMP). Plus it sells for 399. I checked the HD650 XLR calbe price, it's around 200 dollar. Is there any one whom is willing to pay 200~300 in headphone calbes but only get a 400 DAC/AMP to drive them? Deep in my heart, my answer is no. But, actually, yes, like me, my DAC/AMP gave me an blaced output, so I obviously want to try it and figure out the difference even I expect there's none. But, serviously, don't buy those which cost you more than your AMP or headphone, spend 30% (random number but you get what I mean) of your headphone or DAC/AMP price to get a XLR cable to experience and get an idea what they give you (probably just volume). Personally and frankly, I was going to get a XLR calbe simply because I want a shorter cable and experience the XLR magic at the same time.

4. Obviously, DAC and AMP in one box, I mean a decent DAC (not sure, see below) and AMP (I guess yes) in a very good looking box! Deny or not, this is actually pretty important for most consumer who's searching for good sound but dont want equitments and cables mess up their desktop. The footprint of Jot is obvioursly larger than Schiit stack, but it looks much nicer from my own view, One box made of aluminium with both sharp and rounded edge, it really add some fancy feeling to your desktop, if it does not conflict of your overall color scheme of your other equitment (I have only white, silver, black things on my desk, they look nice).

Actually, I want you (who is going to purchase their first DAC/AMP or seeking an upgrade from a non-audiophile grade DAC/AMP) more focus on the Cons side.
Cons:
1. Jot with DAC somehow gave me some too bright sounding feeling which I never had with my HD598. Maybe I am not true audiophile and that sound is actually the correct sound. As I read, most HD650 owner think it's on dark side. I am not very clear about the definition of bright of dark. My bright feeling is mainly come from the harsh sound of high frequency. And even HD650 which is supposed to tuned to be a bit dark cannot compensate the harsh sound. This is annoying when your music involved with high frequency instruments or voice. This bright sound will significantly decrease your confortness, especially you listen such sound for a long time. As I research, this is more caused by the DAC module. And I am actuall seeking a seperate DAC for fixing this. But it kind of lose the meaning to have Jot, doesn't it? Please tell me if you have good suggestion.

2. Female voice in Pop music is kind of recessed and far. I don't know this is because of H650 or Jot. But if you listen to a various range of pop music, my setup is kind of picky on this. I don't like this sounding at all, since I also listen to pop music alot and this sounding sometimes really decrease my immersing feeling. If it's not H650, I would guess it's the fault of the DAC module again. But luckily, the DAC mode is upgradable and probably I should list thie feature as 4th Pros. Anyone here can recommend a DAC or headphnethat can deliver very densed mid-range and close voice sould. 

3. The bass sound a bit chaos and over with my HD650 but it's HD650, I cant' blame to the Jot only.

4. Combine the 2 Cons above, it deliver a V-shape sound which is not HD650 supposed to be. Yes, HD650 emphasize the low end not good at treble. But it's famous in warm sound, so it shouldm't be that mid-range lacking. I more blame this on DAC, not because they are not good but just not matches HD650 good.


Suggestion for buyer.
View it as a good AMP or DAC if you like than a complete solution of DAC/AMP.
Price performance ratio is high. Only competitent is audio-gd NF11. But audio-gd is not suitable for any one like me who want to keep their desktop look fancy.
Better listening this before buying if you could. I am already thinking of getting a complimentary headphone or DAC to fix the Cons I listed above.

I am a lazy guy don't want to take any picture of my setup to prove that was my real feeling of owning and listening my equitment. If you insist and don't trust my words, please let me know. I will post (with my ID and any accectable request you ask). I guess no one will read till this.


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## DavidA

@Chrismust, I agree with you that the Jot is on the bright side, I tried it with my HD800, HD700 and HE560 and gave up since these are my main headphones.


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## Chrismust

DavidA said:


> @Chrismust, I agree with you that the Jot is on the bright side, I tried it with my HD800, HD700 and HE560 and gave up since these are my main headphones.


Hi @DavidA , any suggestion of fixing this instead of trading my Jot with other DAC/AMP. I still prefer to keep Jot at least serving as an AMP.


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## joeexp (May 27, 2017)

DavidA said:


> @Chrismust, I agree with you that the Jot is on the bright side, I tried it with my HD800, HD700 and HE560 and gave up since these are my main headphones.



Yes - because the HD800 (unmodified) and HD700 are commonly referred to as "face tweeters".
They are not a going to work well with the Jot.

Try the HD600 or HD650!


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## wasupdog

the best way to go is jot amp-only with a mimby.  i haven't decided how much better i thought the mimby was by percentage but it's immediately noticeable if you have them side by side.  the thing that stands out is that the mimby has more definition.  still, the dac card is a good value at $100 but not needed if you have an external dac.


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## DavidA

Chrismust said:


> Hi @DavidA , any suggestion of fixing this instead of trading my Jot with other DAC/AMP. I still prefer to keep Jot at least serving as an AMP.



While you can use another DAC that might be a bit warmer I don't think the price would be worth it and its easier to sell the Jot and move on to another amp that you are not trying to fix issues with.



joeexp said:


> Yes - because the HD800 (unmodified) and HD700 are commonly referred to as "face tweeters".
> They are not a going to work well with the Jot.
> 
> Try the HD600 or HD650!



Not a good answer to say get different headphones (I do have a HD650 and had a HD600 BTW) but @Chrismust felt that even with the HD650 the Jot was too bright.  Its hard to consider the Jot a good amp if it doesn't pair with many headphones due to being too bright, there are cheaper amps that do pair well with the HD800 and HD700.


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## WayTooCrazy

I use the Mojo with the Jot and I don't feel that it is bright. TBH though, I mainly use it as a Pre-amp... I've been using my Venture Electronics RunAbout 2.0 Balanced mostly. I really do like that amp (and it does sound similar to Jot, but a little warmer with both being driven by the Mojo).


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## Letmebefrank

I use my Jotunheim with a Modi Multibit, feeding my HD650s in balanced. It doesn't sound bright to me and I do have a bit of treble sensitivity. To me this setup sounds absolutely fantastic.


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## earnmyturns

DavidA said:


> Its hard to consider the Jot a good amp if it doesn't pair with many headphones due to being too bright, there are cheaper amps that do pair well with the HD800 and HD700.


The Jot has a neutral, flat response that reveals any upstream crap, including the high frequency hash from some DACs. With a good DAC -- I've used mine with a Bimby and with a Holo Spring KTE 3 -- it is clear, fast, coherent with punch but no harshness. The two weaknesses I've detected are a shallow soundstage and less instrument separation than some other options, like the Liquid Carbon I used to have (sold because I prefer the Jot) and the Neurochrome HP-1, which I've ordered for my home office system.


----------



## cskippy

Same, and when you compare it to those other amps in terms of price, it's a no brainer.  I use a Gumby/Freya into Jot and the Freya fixes most of Jot's short comings.


----------



## dr cornelius

I’m just not hearing this brightness thing...  I’ve used bright and rolled-off cans on a Jot - the bright headphones sounded bright, the dull ones - dull...  I also run a pair of Genelecs - they sound no brighter than the millions of pairs that I’ve come across in recording studios...


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## WayTooCrazy

I will say this though. I enjoy the Jot as a Pre-Amp! I connect the Mojo to my PC via Optical. Then I've tried connecting that to my Active-X over and it sounds good. I've then tried running the Mojo into the Jot and then out to the Active X-over, and my speakers sound "thicker" and fuller than directly through the Mojo alone. So, there is something being added by the Jot, and what it does add... I like.


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## sup27606

I have been using the Jot+DAC with HD6XX for several months now almost everyday, and I have come to the conclusion that it is not bright at all. When I heard it at the CANJAM, I thought it was distinctively bright, but after hearing it at home, it sounds quite pleasant. My points of reference are mainly the HD6XX, Audeze Sine and HD598. All three sound great, although the Sine and 598 sound brighter, because they are brighter than the 650. With Sine, I hear more resolution than the 650. With 650, I get a bigger stage and more bass. I have absolutely no issues with the midrange or the vocals. In fact I think the vocals sound quite seductive through the 6xx and the Jot. Just today I was listening to the "World's greatest audiophile vocal recordings" album from HDtracks, and it sounds awesome. Any kind of vocal sounds great ... Diana Krall, Tony Bennett, Phill Collins, Norah Jones.

I am yet to hear any critical comparison between the internal DAC vs Mimby. People here keep on saying how great the Mimby is compared to the Jot DAC, but how, where, in which aspects? Without any objective comparison, it really doesn't help new people to decide anything.


----------



## Letmebefrank

Most people who have the Mimby did not order the Jotunheim with the DAC, as they probably had the Mimby already. I bought both the Mimby and Jot on release day, and since the Mimby came out before, I didn't feel the need to add a second (most likely inferior IMO) DAC to my desktop.


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## sup27606 (May 28, 2017)

That's definitely understandable. I have read statements like, the interior DAC is the limiting factor to this otherwise great amp. I wonder how much of this is speculation though. Honestly, I have nothing yet to complain about the internal DAC, but definitely curious to try out a multibit DAC. But without any objective input, it is hard to justify paying for yet another purchase.

P.s. I have the same setup, Miccas with the SA-50. Jot as pre-amp works quite well.


----------



## cskippy

Jot is really good.  I would say it has better technicalities than Zana Deux, $2400 amp, and is also has better tone than Liquid Carbon.  Most headphones are voiced to be bright, either with not enough bass or skewed mids/treble.  Use Jot as a preamp for speakers and it's almost invisible.


----------



## MWSVette

I would describe the Jot as being neutral, detailed and very revealing.  I too bought amp only since I already had a Bimby.  They are a great combination...


----------



## joeexp

DavidA said:


> While you can use another DAC that might be a bit warmer I don't think the price would be worth it and its easier to sell the Jot and move on to another amp that you are not trying to fix issues with.
> 
> Not a good answer to say get different headphones (I do have a HD650 and had a HD600 BTW) but @Chrismust felt that even with the HD650 the Jot was too bright.  Its hard to consider the Jot a good amp if it doesn't pair with many headphones due to being too bright, there are cheaper amps that do pair well with the HD800 and HD700.



Didn't say that. The HD800s are not a good choice with the JOT. They have some upper frequency range weirdness going on. The HD700 are unlistenable..


----------



## dr cornelius

sup27606 said:


> I am yet to hear any critical comparison between the internal DAC vs Mimby. People here keep on saying how great the Mimby is compared to the Jot DAC, but how, where, in which aspects? Without any objective comparison, it really doesn't help new people to decide anything.



That’s a very good point. Unless someone sets up a level matched and instantaneously switchable A/B comparison - it’s difficult to trust any perceptions they’re feeling...


----------



## DavidA

joeexp said:


> Didn't say that. The HD800s are not a good choice with the JOT. They have some upper frequency range weirdness going on. The HD700 are unlistenable..


Why are you defending the Jot by making exceptions?  The Jot is not a bad amp but it depends on the headphones that one has, the individuals hearing, preferred genre, and many other factors.  Many use the HD800 as a reference and how it pairs with any amp would be something to consider IMO since almost everyone at one point or another ask "what's a good amp for the HD800?"

The HD700 may be unlistenable to you but to others its better than the HD800 in some ways.


----------



## koover

Good morning 
 Current configuration is Magni 2 uber with Modi 2. Using Jot ( no DAC)  for HT which is overkill. What I'm going to do is swap the Jot to my PC and pair with Modi 2. 

My cans are HD 650's and soon to arrive THX-00 PH's. 

I'm currently using the Mahagony but I'm not digging the sound hence the return to Massdrop. I believe there's something wrong with these cans as there's hardly any bass. Hell, my DFR on a pair of Sony MDR-1A's (IP6S) kill over my Fostex on the PC. 
My source material is preogressive metal, Djent, hard rock, progressive jazz, etc.

What I'm reading is the Jot with this DAC may not be a good pairing with my Fostex because it'll probably be too bright. I'm sensitive to extreme treble too but should be OK for the 650's.  

I'm keeping the Jot and going to swap out the DAC since I didn't get the onboard DAC with the Jot and sell the M2. 

Am I on the right track here? If so, what DAC would be a good pairing for the Fostex as hopefully they'll be my go to HP's?
Also, I'm a near bass-head (well....prob so) and don't want to lose the low end. 
Any suggestions would be immensely appreciated. 
Thank guys!...... Greg


----------



## MWSVette

koover said:


> Good morning
> Current configuration is Magni 2 uber with Modi 2. Using Jot ( no DAC)  for HT which is overkill. What I'm going to do is swap the Jot to my PC and pair with Modi 2.
> 
> My cans are HD 650's and soon to arrive THX-00 PH's.
> ...




Interesting, for me the Jot with the TH-X00 Mahogany have the most pronounced bass of any of my headphones...


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## joeexp (May 28, 2017)

DavidA said:


> Why are you defending the Jot by making exceptions?  The Jot is not a bad amp but it depends on the headphones that one has, the individuals hearing, preferred genre, and many other factors.  Many use the HD800 as a reference and how it pairs with any amp would be something to consider IMO since almost everyone at one point or another ask "what's a good amp for the HD800?"
> The HD700 may be unlistenable to you but to others its better than the HD800 in some ways.




The JOT does not pair well with the HD800. Some Amps/Heaphones don't pair well.
The HD800 can be a reference for some, but it has some issues. With the right amp and some modification(s) the HD800 can shine.
The HD700 on the other hand ...


----------



## MWSVette

Personally I prefer the HD700 with my Lyr and a good set of tubes over the HD700 and the Jot...


----------



## joeexp

MWSVette said:


> Personally I prefer the HD700 with my Lyr and a good set of tubes over the HD700 and the Jot...



Understandably!


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## koover (May 28, 2017)

MWSVette said:


> Interesting, for me the Jot with the TH-X00 Mahogany have the most pronounced bass of any of my headphones...



Please don't forget what I stated, I haven't paired them up yet as I'm using the Mahogany with the Magni uber and Modi 2. I'll be using the purplehearts with the Jot.


----------



## MWSVette

koover said:


> I believe there's something wrong with these cans as there's hardly any bass.



This was the part of your statement I was referring to...


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## earnmyturns (May 28, 2017)

DavidA said:


> Why are you defending the Jot by making exceptions?  The Jot is not a bad amp but it depends on the headphones that one has, the individuals hearing, preferred genre, and many other factors.


To be blunt: all the hocus-pocus about "pairing" is really about asking the amp to fix headphone weirdness or match user preferences for spectral coloration or "euphony" (aka even harmonic distortion). The big "sin" of the Jot is that it is pretty close to a "wire with gain" and so does not bend to all of those needs. On the other hand, it comes closer to my frequent experience of live music than for example the Liquid Carbon (just listening -- see headphone system info on my sig below -- to a new live recording of Bill Frisell and Thomas Morgan at the Village Vanguard, and having been there myself and listened to Frisell live many times, I can't find any fault with what I'm hearing). Nothing wrong with seeking an amp that tweaks the signal to match your transducers and preferences, but blaming the Jot for being closer to the signal truth is akin to blaming the messenger for the news.


----------



## koover

MWSVette said:


> This was the part of your statement I was referring to...



Cool. Got it.
So let me ask you, what amp/DAC are you running with? I'm just not getting the bass with my current set-up. As I was saying, all my other HP's have more bass then the TXH-00's so I'm thinking there's gotta be something jacked up with the pair that I own. I use the same set-up with all my cans and these have the least amount of bass.
I'm also thinking an upgraded DAC may pair well with the new Purplehearts/Jot. Yes? No? Maybe?


----------



## DavidA

koover said:


> Cool. Got it.
> So let me ask you, what amp/DAC are you running with? I'm just not getting the bass with my current set-up. As I was saying, all my other HP's have more bass then the TXH-00's so I'm thinking there's gotta be something jacked up with the pair that I own. I use the same set-up with all my cans and these have the least amount of bass.
> I'm also thinking an upgraded DAC may pair well with the new Purplehearts/Jot. Yes? No? Maybe?



I had the mahogany TH-X00 for a short period and while it did have a lot of bass it was not good quality but the bass was there even out of the headphone jack of my computer so I would agree with @MWSVette that there might be something wrong with your TH-X00.

@earnmyturns, what you are describing is the O2 that was all the fad a few years ago, "a wire with gain" and like you say it the harmonic distortion that makes some amps work well with some headphones and not others.  I'm also not one to looking for "as the musician recorded it" or "just like being there" I just like to enjoy it from what ever I have hooked up at the time, like now its a EL8 out of the headphone jack of a UD-301 and when my GF gets up I'll change over to SAE-X10 amp and Rauna TYR speakers so she can enjoy the music with me.


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## tuna47

I have the he1000 mojo and jot usually sounds great but on some sibilant albums it is a bright combo


----------



## Tuneslover

Letmebefrank said:


> I use my Jotunheim with a Modi Multibit, feeding my HD650s in balanced. It doesn't sound bright to me and I do have a bit of treble sensitivity. To me this setup sounds absolutely fantastic.



That's my earsessment too.


----------



## EtRec

Hi, I've posted before that I had the BitfrostMultibit  to see if it was any better then the Jot internal DAC. Could not hear any. Sent the Bitfrost  back after 2 weeks of listening (yes I burnt in and left both on for 5 days straight). Love my Jot with internal DAC as a preamp to my amp+passive speakers and with my Audioquest Nightowl Carbon + balanced cable. My Senhieser HD650 and my Shure SE425 earbuds also sound  great with the Jot. Wish I could afford the Audeze LCD 4 headphones, but I can't. Maybe in a more just life.


----------



## Ninadada (May 29, 2017)

sup27606 said:


> To those who own both the Jot with DAC and Mimby, how much of an upgrade in sound quality is there while going from the Jot-DAC to the Mimby. I am trying to decide whether to spend $200+ for a dedicated DAC. Which are the areas where you see improvement. Is there a wider/deeper soundstage. Are the notes more prominent? Is the bass more visceral? Most importantly, will there be a readily detectable improvement in SQ or is it more subtle?
> 
> I hate to ask this, after so much has been discussed, but I couldn't find the answer to my question in this thread. Many people have stated there is going to be an improvement in SQ in Mimby, but I am looking for a more critical assessment.
> Thanks in advance.


I own a Jot with DAC module, Mimby, and Bimby with the HD650 headphones.  To me, the tonal balance and characteristics throughout low, mid, and high frequencies is fairly consistent between all 3 DACs.  The biggest difference is the soundstage and separation increasing with the Mimby and slightly more so with Bimby.  It is more noticeable with good recordings, with the difference between Jot DAC and Mimby about 2x greater than between Mimby and Bimby (Law of diminishing returns).  Bimby does seem to have a slightly warmer sound overall compared with Jot DAC and Mimby and is my favorite of the three.  Value-wise, you won't be disappointed with Mimby.


----------



## NPWS

anyone here tried driving hd800s with jotun?
thanks


----------



## sup27606

Ninadada said:


> I own a Jot with DAC module, Mimby, and Bimby with the HD650 headphones.  To me, the tonal balance and characteristics throughout low, mid, and high frequencies is fairly consistent between all 3 DACs.  The biggest difference is the soundstage and separation increasing with the Mimby and slightly more so with Bimby.  It is more noticeable with good recordings, with the difference between Jot DAC and Mimby about 2x greater than between Mimby and Bimby (Law of diminishing returns).  Bimby does seem to have a slightly warmer sound overall compared with Jot DAC and Mimby and is my favorite of the three.  Value-wise, you won't be disappointed with Mimby.



Hi,
I must say, your assessment is quite helpful to me. I somewhat guessed that the improvement would be in the soundstage and instrument separation, but you nailed it! Thank you very much. I will be looking forward to grabbing a Mimby once a good deal comes by.


----------



## windcar

NPWS said:


> anyone here tried driving hd800s with jotun?
> thanks



There are people here who uses HD800S with Jot but I never like this pairing, let alone 800 non-S version. The paring only exacerbate the high mids/treble issue. Unlike many others, I don't find Jot all that amazing. My definition of a good amp is that it does not add coloration to the music, and in the case of Jot, the treble glare is very obvious. I also find the clarity of the Jot unnatural. I was comparing the sound of phones directly plugged to the RCA of mimby and mimby->balanced Jot, and every time I find the chain with the Jot having more clarity. How is it possible that adding an additional equipment in the chain will make music from the DAC clearer? The sound feels like it has been smoothed over at the expense of small fine details, much like an antialiasing applied to make things cleaner and smoother. I supposed the pricing of the Jot is good, and that is at least a good point about it.


----------



## NPWS

windcar said:


> There are people here who uses HD800S with Jot but I never like this pairing, let alone 800 non-S version. The paring only exacerbate the high mids/treble issue. Unlike many others, I don't find Jot all that amazing. My definition of a good amp is that it does not add coloration to the music, and in the case of Jot, the treble glare is very obvious. I also find the clarity of the Jot unnatural. I was comparing the sound of phones directly plugged to the RCA of mimby and mimby->balanced Jot, and every time I find the chain with the Jot having more clarity. How is it possible that adding an additional equipment in the chain will make music from the DAC clearer? The sound feels like it has been smoothed over at the expense of small fine details, much like an antialiasing applied to make things cleaner and smoother. I supposed the pricing of the Jot is good, and that is at least a good point about it.



I see, thank you for your input.
I'm considering buying jotun because of the price tag lol


----------



## windcar

Well, considering the price I cannot really fault it too much though. It's truly balanced and still offers more sound details than amps around the same price bracket. The biggest issue I see is the skewed tonality, but it will be a good match with darker cans.


----------



## earnmyturns

windcar said:


> There are people here who uses HD800S with Jot but I never like this pairing, let alone 800 non-S version. The paring only exacerbate the high mids/treble issue. Unlike many others, I don't find Jot all that amazing. My definition of a good amp is that it does not add coloration to the music, and in the case of Jot, the treble glare is very obvious. I also find the clarity of the Jot unnatural. I was comparing the sound of phones directly plugged to the RCA of mimby and mimby->balanced Jot, and every time I find the chain with the Jot having more clarity. How is it possible that adding an additional equipment in the chain will make music from the DAC clearer? The sound feels like it has been smoothed over at the expense of small fine details, much like an antialiasing applied to make things cleaner and smoother. I supposed the pricing of the Jot is good, and that is at least a good point about it.


Jot with or without DAC? My experience with Jot fed by two very different DACs (Bimby and Holo Spring KTE 3), into MrSpeakers Ether C Flow or Æon, is very different from yours. No coloration whatsoever, realistic clarity, remarkably close to my very frequent experiences of live jazz and classical music. My sense of Jot criticism is that many people want their amp to drive their headphones to create a particular target sound profile that is pleasant even if not necessarily live-realistic, and the Jot fails to oblige by being honestly true to the source and thus incapable of overcoming recording or headphone peculiarities. I kept a Jot against a Liquid Carbon because while the LC was more pleasing at first, it sounded ultimately less true to the sources. The only solid-state amp I've heard that I prefer to the Jot -- for better instrument separation and sound stage -- is the Neurochrome HP-1, which I just got after I did a side-by-side comparison. Not a huge difference, so I'm keeping the Jot for another system. Of course, I've not listened to everything out there. And a Rag would be too big for my headphone amp locations.


----------



## Sharkhunter

NPWS said:


> I see, thank you for your input.
> I'm considering buying jotun because of the price tag lol



I have a jot with internal dac and use it with my hd6xx and thx00. I am thinking of getting a HD800. would any mods on hd800 make it pair well with jot. I dont want to sell jot and get a tube amp plus dac. 

Any thought.s?


----------



## MWSVette (May 31, 2017)

I use the Jot with my HD800's a fair amount.  While it is not my favorite amp for the HD800 it preforms admirably .  I prefer my Lyr with a good set of tubes for the best synergy with the HD800's.  The best pairing of my SS amps and the HD800 is the Airist Audio Heron 5...


----------



## NPWS

windcar said:


> Well, considering the price I cannot really fault it too much though. It's truly balanced and still offers more sound details than amps around the same price bracket. The biggest issue I see is the skewed tonality, *but it will be a good match with darker cans*.



this is damn right!



Sharkhunter said:


> I have a jot with internal dac and use it with my hd6xx and thx00. I am thinking of getting a HD800. would any mods on hd800 make it pair well with jot. I dont want to sell jot and get a tube amp plus dac.
> 
> Any thought.s?



hhmm, last night my friend came to my house bring his jotun. I tried pairing my hd800s and his hd800's + 800 SDR mod.
800s and 800SDR mod + jotun, it's sound good, at least my ear not bleeding from the treble-ish peaky
800 + jotun,I just can't take it more, the treble it's so peaky for me, YMMV

and I agree, jotun pairing well with dark cans. IMO


----------



## joeexp

Try to get hold of a SuperDupontResonator,  which is cheap, easy to install and solves some of the HD800's issues.
See how you get on before investing more into hardware...


----------



## MWSVette

For the SDR mod contact @Sorrodje...


----------



## Ninadada

Sharkhunter said:


> I have a jot with internal dac and use it with my hd6xx and thx00. I am thinking of getting a HD800. would any mods on hd800 make it pair well with jot. I dont want to sell jot and get a tube amp plus dac.
> 
> Any thought.s?


Here are my thoughts:
For short-duration <1hr analytical listening, the HD800 is hard to beat.
For longer-duration >1hr listening for pleasure, the HD6xx will be more enjoyable for many.


----------



## erics75

Sharkhunter said:


> I have a jot with internal dac and use it with my hd6xx and thx00. I am thinking of getting a HD800. would any mods on hd800 make it pair well with jot. I dont want to sell jot and get a tube amp plus dac.
> 
> Any thought.s?


though i sold my hd800 awhile back (with sdr mod), i did use it on my jot with balanced cables, and i did not find it overly bright at all. my high frequency hearing isnt the best anymore, but i liked the pairing. i got my jot after the sdr mod so i cannot comment on how the stock hd800 would fare. i'm trying to get another hd800 for the jot, as i did like the pairing alot. one option that isnt a lot of money is get a warmer amp to act as a preamp to the jot. i've seen many people comment that running the vali 2 with good tubes in front of the jot was an excellent pairing. just hearsay on my part though, i have no firsthand experience, though i'll likely try it one of these days.


----------



## Byronb (May 31, 2017)

earnmyturns said:


> Jot with or without DAC? My experience with Jot fed by two very different DACs (Bimby and Holo Spring KTE 3), into MrSpeakers Ether C Flow or Æon, is very different from yours. No coloration whatsoever, realistic clarity, remarkably close to my very frequent experiences of live jazz and classical music. My sense of Jot criticism is that many people want their amp to drive their headphones to create a particular target sound profile that is pleasant even if not necessarily live-realistic, and the Jot fails to oblige by being honestly true to the source and thus incapable of overcoming recording or headphone peculiarities. I kept a Jot against a Liquid Carbon because while the LC was more pleasing at first, it sounded ultimately less true to the sources. The only solid-state amp I've heard that I prefer to the Jot -- for better instrument separation and sound stage -- is the Neurochrome HP-1, which I just got after I did a side-by-side comparison. Not a huge difference, so I'm keeping the Jot for another system. Of course, I've not listened to everything out there. And a Rag would be too big for my headphone amp locations.



This right here, I could not have said it any better.


----------



## Chrismust

I just found one extra bonus of owning Jot. It offer you high gain and low gain mode. Not just volume is different, the sound signature is also audible different. In low gain, the vocal sounds more close and immersing, and high gain give you more bass and treble extension and dynamic. You could switch them accordingly when you listen to different kind of music. Pretty obvious from my own perspective. Give it a try.


----------



## doktorkarate

Chrismust said:


> I just found one extra bonus of owning Jot. It offer you high gain and low gain mode. Not just volume is different, the sound signature is also audible different. In low gain, the vocal sounds more close and immersing, and high gain give you more bass and treble extension and dynamic. You could switch them accordingly when you listen to different kind of music. Pretty obvious from my own perspective. Give it a try.



You might have mentioned before ( sorry if so): what headphones are you using? Did this Happen to all your headphones?


----------



## DavidA

Chrismust said:


> I just found one extra bonus of owning Jot. It offer you high gain and low gain mode. Not just volume is different, the sound signature is also audible different. In low gain, the vocal sounds more close and immersing, and high gain give you more bass and treble extension and dynamic. You could switch them accordingly when you listen to different kind of music. Pretty obvious from my own perspective. Give it a try.



Its a statement like the above that makes me scratch my head, if the output impedance does not change between high and low gain what is causing the differences noted?  This means that the Jot is coloring the sound in some way which is a contradiction to what people say is a very transparent amp.


----------



## earnmyturns

DavidA said:


> Its a statement like the above that makes me scratch my head, if the output impedance does not change between high and low gain what is causing the differences noted?  This means that the Jot is coloring the sound in some way which is a contradiction to what people say is a very transparent amp.


No need for head-scratching: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour. Most likely, the OP did not amplitude-match between the low-gain and the high-gain conditions.


----------



## MWSVette

I have seen more than one person thinks that the high/low gain switch has magical properties that change an amps SQ.

It does not...


----------



## Chrismust

doktorkarate said:


> You might have mentioned before ( sorry if so): what headphones are you using? Did this Happen to all your headphones?


HD650 & HD598. But found the high / low gain different only on 650


----------



## Chrismust

MWSVette said:


> I have seen more than one person thinks that the high/low gain switch has magical properties that change an amps SQ.
> 
> It does not...


Didn't say high/low improve or decrease the SQ. High/low changes the electrical attribute of the circuit pack and subtly change power distribution over different frequency, which makes sense to me. Didn't say the same circuit pack can process / convert / amp the signal better in any mode.


----------



## MWSVette

Chrismust said:


> I just found one extra bonus of owning Jot. It offer you high gain and low gain mode.  * Not just volume is different, the sound signature is also audible different. In low gain, the vocal sounds more close and immersing, and high gain give you more bass and treble extension and dynamic*. You could switch them accordingly when you listen to different kind of music. Pretty obvious from my own perspective. Give it a try.





MWSVette said:


> I have seen more than one person thinks that the high/low gain switch has magical properties that change an amps SQ.
> 
> It does not...





Chrismust said:


> Didn't say high/low improve or decrease the SQ. High/low changes the electrical attribute of the circuit pack and subtly change power distribution over different frequency, which makes sense to me. Didn't say the same circuit pack can process / convert / amp the signal better in any mode.



The statements in bold are where I disagree...


----------



## headpfizer

Can anyone comment on the possible benefits of the Jotunheim vs Audio-gd NFB 28? Besides the price difference.


----------



## joeexp

size? LOL


----------



## Chrismust

MWSVette said:


> The statements in bold are where I disagree...


Alright, my words did sound like to describe a SQ change. Sorry for my misleading words.


----------



## MWSVette

Chrismust said:


> Alright, my words did sound like to describe a SQ change. Sorry for my misleading words.



No worries...


----------



## earnmyturns

Chrismust said:


> Didn't say high/low improve or decrease the SQ. High/low changes the electrical attribute of the circuit pack and subtly change power distribution over different frequency, which makes sense to me. Didn't say the same circuit pack can process / convert / amp the signal better in any mode.


A well-designed amp *should not* do that. I very doubt that pros like Jason and Mike would make such a basic design mistake. Much more likely, your tests are not properly volume-matched.


----------



## koover (Jun 4, 2017)

Very confused
I have my Jot paired with the Modi 2 (non uber) with windows 10. Everything is hooked up correctly BUT....I actually get audio when the Jot is TURNED OFF. The volume knob doesn't work either. Spin it and the audio stays at the same level. When I turn the Jot on, same thing....same audio.

Also, The Jot does not show up in my sound properties and still shows my desktop speakers as the default. Please help. Please!
Also, I'm not using a balanced cable.


----------



## cskippy

Make sure you have the right selection on the left input selector.  Bottom is single ended input, middle is balanced input, and top is built in DAC if it's installed.


----------



## koover

It's set to the bottom.
Now there's no audio at all. 
My sound properties doesn't even recognize the jot
Also, on Spotify and Tidal, both are saying device not found.
Literally, 30 minutes ago I had the Magni Uber2 /Modi 2 set up and it was rocking. Hook up the Jot on my PC and nothing.
The Magni 2 Uber is working on my HT just fine. It's just the Jot is not working with the Modi 2 on my PC


----------



## rkw

koover said:


> So in a nutshell, the Jot is producing sound through the cans even when the unit is turned off.


Does the white power LED go on and off as expected with the power switch?


koover said:


> Also, The Jot does not show up in my sound properties and still shows my desktop speakers as the default.


If your connection is: computer --> Modi --> Jot, then the computer knows nothing about the Jot. The Modi should appear on the computer as a Schiit USB Audio device. Try plugging into a different USB port on your computer.


----------



## cskippy

You MIGHT need new windows drivers for the Jot to work via USB, also, just checking but your USB>Modi>rca>Jot input not going into the Jot's output rca connectors?  Left switch down with rca input should give you sound from Modi.  If not, then I'm not sure what the problem is...


----------



## koover (Jun 4, 2017)

rkw said:


> Does the white power LED go on and off as expected with the power switch?
> If your connection is: computer --> Modi --> Jot, then the computer knows nothing about the Jot. The Modi should appear on the computer as a Schiit USB Audio device. Try plugging into a different USB port on your computer.





cskippy said:


> You MIGHT need new windows drivers for the Jot to work via USB, also, just checking but your USB>Modi>rca>Jot input not going into the Jot's output rca connectors?  Left switch down with rca input should give you sound from Modi.  If not, then I'm not sure what the problem is...



I believe you may be correct on new drivers. After almost an hour, all of  a sudden it's working. I did absolutely nothing different except toggling the on and off switch and front toggles.
I was thinking there was a short in the unit but it was and has worked flawlessly since I've had it....until swapping out.
Everything was connected as both you guys stated.
I'm going to download all new drivers and hopefully this will correct this from happening again because I get this feeling it will.


----------



## koover

rkw said:


> Does the white power LED go on and off as expected with the power switch?
> If your connection is: computer --> Modi --> Jot, then the computer knows nothing about the Jot. The Modi should appear on the computer as a Schiit USB Audio device. Try plugging into a different USB port on your computer.



Yes, the power light worked just fine toggling back and forth. But I got sound when it was off (light too) and when powering on, no sound. Read my post above as everything is mysteriously working now. It's got to be a driver issue.


----------



## koover

cskippy & rkw ....thank you for your quick responses and assistance. I do truly appreciate it.
I know I'm a newbie and you're both probably thinking I wasn't doing what you were suggestion but I truly was. This was an odd situation. Don't understand why this happened as it's pretty basic stuff hooking up 2 cables and ensure the 1st toggle is set to the down position. Never saw anything like this where there was audio when the unit was powered off.
Nevertheless, it's working just fine and it's sounds incredible paired with my THX-00 PH's.
Cheers!


----------



## koover (Jun 5, 2017)

Finally got this hooked up. Very humble but a great start for this newbie
Cheers


----------



## Phantaminum (Jun 8, 2017)

Recently purchased a used Jotunheim+Dac combo in the FS section of Head-Fi.

Initial impressions of the combo is smaller details come through easier and instrument separation is better compared to the Fulla 2. Sounds great but...

I think I may have set myself up with unrealistic expectations with what the amp could do. I tested the amp with my Mahogony Foster TX-00 with Dekoni pads and Monolith M1060s with Cskippy's recommended mod. I expected more sub bass to offset the diminished bass from the Dekoni pads w/ attenuator rings. I'm kicking myself for selling off the default pads as they really were made for the TH-X00.

I also find myself still favoring the sound of the Oppo HA-2 with the M1060. Maybe the smoother sounding dac on the amp doesn't pair well, to my ears, with the M1060.I'm going to re-evaluate my chain. I've purchased balanced cables and cant wait to try it out with the planars and I'll be ordering a Mimby as well.

Regardless of everything said the Jot is a great amp and beautifully made. Surprisingly the Fulla 2 punches above it's price range. I'm having fun with this hobby and trying out new equipment.


----------



## cskippy

If you have the cable, try the line out from the HA-2 into the Jot.  Then you can compare DACs and amps seperately.


----------



## nerone

koover said:


> cskippy & rkw ....thank you for your quick responses and assistance. I do truly appreciate it.
> I know I'm a newbie and you're both probably thinking I wasn't doing what you were suggestion but I truly was. This was an odd situation. Don't understand why this happened as it's pretty basic stuff hooking up 2 cables and ensure the 1st toggle is set to the down position. Never saw anything like this where there was audio when the unit was powered off.
> Nevertheless, it's working just fine and it's sounds incredible paired with my THX-00 PH's.
> Cheers!


Some equipment take a little time to completely drain the power supply capacitors after you switch it off, this happened to my valhalla 2, may be the same situation with jot.


----------



## koover (Jun 8, 2017)

nerone said:


> Some equipment take a little time to completely drain the power supply capacitors after you switch it off, this happened to my valhalla 2, may be the same situation with jot.



Sounds logical. I'm hoping that's what it is. 
Now I'm hearing pops at the start of every song, all kinds of hiss, noise etc. throughout, especially in quiet parts of a tune. I'm also getting dropouts for up to 5 seconds (then resuming) 
Looks like a WYRE could be in my future.
Thanx for the input and insight man!


----------



## file1man

Phantaminum said:


> Recently purchased a used Jotunheim+Dac combo in the FS section of Head-Fi.
> 
> Initial impressions of the combo is smaller details come through easier and instrument separation is better compared to the Fulla 2. Sounds great but...
> 
> ...


Im back in to stereo equipment after away for 10 years of computers & gaming, my plan is a bedroom setup- use my Fiio 5 3rd gen into Jotunheim out to M1060  or senns hd650 headphones- both the Jot & 1060 cans are just purchased, intransit, arriving next week-  where can I source decent balanced cables ($max $100 each ) for the m1060 and hd650 ? and also, using the Fiio5 gen3, Im confused because I believe input into the Jot will be 3.5 out of Fiio5  with se rca into rca connectors on Jot- is it still worth it to get new balanced cables for the Jot's 4pin front panel xlr cans connector? 
I know and love Dekoni pads so Im a little disapponted I went with the $300 Monolith 1060's gen 2 as a change to the senns hd650's instead of  this week's massdrop emu teak $500 fostex like cans-- Im kinda overwhelmed but spotify and tidal have brought music in a good direction for me.Please help with recommended calbes and the proper set up-- btw, have a gungnir sitting unused, not connected in my main setup for 2 years


----------



## cskippy

@file1man I can recommend Impact Audio Cables on Etsy for good quality/priced cables.  You can configure them however you need.

https://www.etsy.com/shop/ImpactAudioCables

Why don't you send your Gungnir in for a Multibit upgrade?  It might be the best thing you can do as it will have a positive impact on all sound you hear.


----------



## file1man

cskippy said:


> @file1man I can recommend Impact Audio Cables on Etsy for good quality/priced cables.  You can configure them however you need.
> 
> https://www.etsy.com/shop/ImpactAudioCables
> 
> Why don't you send your Gungnir in for a Multibit upgrade?  It might be the best thing you can do as it will have a positive impact on all sound you hear.


ty- also since you have the fostex tx-00 ( $400 today on mass drop), might you expect the e-mu teak( mass drop today $500) or your tx-00 worth the extra $100 or $200 more than the 1060 cans for $300-- I havent been able to audition any of these here in nj so far- yes Ive budgeted the mutibit upgrade and usb addon for my gungnir but a $500 e-mu can would use the last of my money saved over the last year for all this


----------



## Phantaminum (Jun 9, 2017)

file1man said:


> Im back in to stereo equipment after away for 10 years of computers & gaming, my plan is a bedroom setup- use my Fiio 5 3rd gen into Jotunheim out to M1060  or senns hd650 headphones- both the Jot & 1060 cans are just purchased, intransit, arriving next week-  where can I source decent balanced cables ($max $100 each ) for the m1060 and hd650 ? and also, using the Fiio5 gen3, Im confused because I believe input into the Jot will be 3.5 out of Fiio5  with se rca into rca connectors on Jot- is it still worth it to get new balanced cables for the Jot's 4pin front panel xlr cans connector?
> I know and love Dekoni pads so Im a little disapponted I went with the $300 Monolith 1060's gen 2 as a change to the senns hd650's instead of  this week's massdrop emu teak $500 fostex like cans-- Im kinda overwhelmed but spotify and tidal have brought music in a good direction for me.Please help with recommended calbes and the proper set up-- btw, have a gungnir sitting unused, not connected in my main setup for 2 years



As Cskippy mentioned go with Impact Audio Cables. The M1060 2.5mm cable with the Neutrik XLR adapter will run you around $85 not including shipping. I have to say that I've been drooling over the E-mu Teaks for a while now but I've spent way too much on audio gear this year. It looks like the TH-X00 go on sale more than the E-mu Teak counterpart. It could possibly be because of the availability but you'll rarely find the Teaks on sale on the Head-Fi forums. I personally would go for the Teaks and later upgrade the DAC.

@cskippy After taking your advice I find that the Oppo's DAC pushes the vocals forward compared to the internal DAC on the Jot. That's what's making me lean more towards the Oppo HA-2/M1060 combination compared to the Jotunheim. It feels like the vocals are pushed farther with the Jot's DAC. On the flip side I'm having a blast with the TH-X00 and the Jot.


----------



## cskippy

Teaks are also a good counter point to the HD650.  TH-X00 will give you the sub bass and sparkle that is missing from the HD650, plus they leak less sound which can be a plus.


----------



## windcar

Anyone tried using this amp with DACs using PCM1704 or some other warmer balanced R2R DACs? I am thinking some of those DAC can enhance the bass even further and also give the amp a more euphoric character. This paring might even be competitive with high end equipment. The modi Multibit does not have enough Bass compared to some Audio-GD offering.


----------



## earnmyturns

windcar said:


> Anyone tried using this amp with DACs using PCM1704 or some other warmer balanced R2R DACs? I am thinking some of those DAC can enhance the bass even further and also give the amp a more euphoric character. This paring might even be competitive with high end equipment. The modi Multibit does not have enough Bass compared to some Audio-GD offering.


I've used it with Bimby and with Holo Spring KTE 3. Bass was fairly well represented with Bimby, but it became more substantial with the Spring in NOS mode. Highs, especially cymbals and the higher range of strings, became even better delineated. However, I think that Bimby>Jot is an especially overall combo for < $1000, which I'm using for my work system now, and I'm using a Neurochrome HP-1 with the Spring for my home office system, for an even punchier presentation (at more than 3.5x the cost).


----------



## Suopermanni

Has anyone in this thread had a Matrix X Sabre with their Jot? Just wondering as the X Sabre's XLR output has a rather odd power output and wondering if it would pair well.


----------



## mks100

So I've owned the Jotunheim w/ DAC for all of 5 Hours.  Some thoughts...

If I had to do it all over again, I would start with the Jotunheim w/ DAC, HD 650 or the NightHawk (still comparing), VE Basic Balanced Cable(s) (~$20 each) and Roon w/ Tidal and call it a day.
Coming from the Vali 2/Mimby the improvement is significant.  I will most likely repurchase the Mimby down the road, but do not miss it at the moment.
I lived with the DragonFly Red only for the past 2 Weeks.  I have not tried it with the Jotunheim as of yet.  That being said, I would say the ~ $300 difference in price is more than worth it.
Balanced?  Yes.  Absolutely.  I previously owned a Geek Out V2 & Songbird.  The Songbird unfortunately was less than durable.  After the Jotunheim I don't miss it.  I purchased my VE Basic Balanced Cable(s) from AliExpress. Slow boat from China? Absolutely. Worth the wait? Absolutely.
I have not tried my SR80e yet, but the HD 650 scales to the point that I may no longer need it.  It is a significant improvement particularly in the mid-range & upper treble.
...just some initial thoughts for those considering the Jotunheim.  Highly recommended!


----------



## koover

I posted this is another thread and was encouraged to post in this one. So here's a copy/paste.

I know this is an old thread but I didn't want to start a new one. 
A question or 2
Firstly and seriously, I don't know Schiit about a lot of this stuff so if you respond please keep that in mind. 
I picked up the WYRD from a fine member here for a really good price to hopefully clean up my current issue. It's driving me crazy
I fully expected a black background even at high volume but it hasn't happened.
During quite parts on any track, I hear this hiss background noise. Best way to describe is a Shhhhhhhhh type sound. 

Is this from the Modi 2 DAC, my Jot, or is it simply the quality of my source player. I hear this on every set of cans and on both Spotify premium and Tidal Hi-FI/Master?
I just can't take it. I thought buying this unit would do the trick but it's still there.
Thoughts?

This happens on all 3 sets of cans I have. Check my signature.
As a side note, I really don't hear this on my AQ DFR with any of my cans. 
Thoughts?


----------



## Bacon Bits

koover said:


> I posted this is another thread and was encouraged to post in this one. So here's a copy/paste.
> 
> I know this is an old thread but I didn't want to start a new one.
> A question or 2
> ...


Might just be the recording if you don't hear anything when nothing is playing.


----------



## cskippy

The Jot has a TON of power at it's disposal.  If you're using sensitive IEMs or even headphones, you will hear the noise floor of the amp as the gain is too high for that particular headphone/IEM.  I almost always run Jot on Low Gain as the noise floor is lower.  

To test if it's the amp or the music, is pretty simple.  Does the noise still exist when there is no music playing?  Is it constant?  That means there is too much gain or your headphones are too sensitive.  You can confirm this by disconnecting all cables from Jot except your headphones and power cable obviously.


----------



## koover

cskippy said:


> The Jot has a TON of power at it's disposal.  If you're using sensitive IEMs or even headphones, you will hear the noise floor of the amp as the gain is too high for that particular headphone/IEM.  I almost always run Jot on Low Gain as the noise floor is lower.
> 
> To test if it's the amp or the music, is pretty simple.  Does the noise still exist when there is no music playing?  Is it constant?  That means there is too much gain or your headphones are too sensitive.  You can confirm this by disconnecting all cables from Jot except your headphones and power cable obviously.



Like both you and Bacon Bits stated, it's not the amp. There's black background when I pause any track. Damn, what's the odds of having 3 very sensitive HP's? I thought at least the 650's wouldn't hiss but they do. Now I got to figure out what to listen too that doesn't suck with how they laid the tracks down. It's everything.....damn. So much for nirvana. 
I always run the Jot on low gain as it's got plenty of power and most times I'm between 12 O'clock at 2.
Thanx for the replies guys.


----------



## cskippy

Get a balanced cable for the HD650.  mine don't hiss at the volume levels I listen at.  I generally listen around 70-75dB.  If you hear hiss you might be listening too loud.  You could try a free app on an iPhone or Android to at least get a general idea of how loud you're listening.  In general, headphone listeners listen about 10dB higher than if they were listening to speakers.  85dB is the max safe level for listening for an extended period of time.  IMO, I would say that's too high but it also depends on ambient noise.


----------



## koover (Jun 22, 2017)

cskippy said:


> Get a balanced cable for the HD650.  mine don't hiss at the volume levels I listen at.  I generally listen around 70-75dB.  If you hear hiss you might be listening too loud.  You could try a free app on an iPhone or Android to at least get a general idea of how loud you're listening.  In general, headphone listeners listen about 10dB higher than if they were listening to speakers.  85dB is the max safe level for listening for an extended period of time.  IMO, I would say that's too high but it also depends on ambient noise.



Well I downloaded a free dB app and put just a bit of pressure on one of the cups with the phone and it measured an average of 96db. I guess I really like my music loud. Could be the issue and on my way to hearing impairment. I also don't listen to those volumes all the time unless I really want to rock out.
Thanks for the info and replies man!


----------



## rkw

It's possible that your Modi 2 is generating the hiss and the Jot is simply amplifying it. Do you have anything else that you can connect the Modi to (such as home stereo system) and see if you hear a hiss?


----------



## koover (Jun 22, 2017)

rkw said:


> It's possible that your Modi 2 is generating the hiss and the Jot is simply amplifying it. Do you have anything else that you can connect the Modi to (such as home stereo system) and see if you hear a hiss?



I do have a home theater set-up but it would be a huge undertaking to hook it up.
I'm thinking it has to be hardware as the hiss is pretty substantial even at lower listening levels. It could be that all the  tracks I listen too are poorly recorded to cause all this hiss, but that would be uncanny. I've been looking at upgrading to a mimby and might just pull the trigger. I'm leaning towards the Modi 2 as the culprit. I just hooked up a WYRD too and no hiss improvement. It did actually improve the overall sound though.
What do I know. That's why I ask you guys.


----------



## cskippy

I've never had a DAC put out a constant hiss.  Hash, intermittent glitchy noises and dropouts can all occur, but never a constant noise or hiss.  Is the hiss there even with the volume pot all the way down or say 9 o'clock?


----------



## koover (Jun 22, 2017)

cskippy said:


> I've never had a DAC put out a constant hiss.  Hash, intermittent glitchy noises and dropouts can all occur, but never a constant noise or hiss.  Is the hiss there even with the volume pot all the way down or say 9 o'clock?



Sorry stepped away for a bit.
No, no hiss with the pot all the way down. 9 O'clock barely any hiss, difficult to discern but it's there. 10 O'clock?...yeah, start hearing a hiss and noticeable.
Seriously guys, Is it going to take a $1000 amp/DAC to get rid of the noise floor? I'm new to this as that should be obvious, but I guess I really didn't expect this. I expected with the Jot pretty much a black background at moderate to descent levels of volume. I want loud audio at times and able to "really" enjoy it. Not ear bleeding volumes, but able to keep on low gain set to maybe 2 O'Clock.  That's not crazy loud IMHO. Listening at 9-10 O'clock will put me to sleep and not worth it.
Edit:I did just crank it up to 2 O'clock and it really didn't sound all that good. Quite a bit of distortion.

My issue is I haven't been in the game more then 3 months and come off sounding quite ignorant, which I am for the most part. I consider myself a "near" audiophile and can hear the difference between bad, descent, good, excellent and WOW! I'll get there. I appreciate the engagement here and am learning daily.

Right now I'm listening to some Jazz Pistols set at 10AM/low gain and hear static/distortion with a pair of THX-00 PH's. Pissing me off.

So.....is it the Jot? The Modi 2? My sound level preference....at times? Still getting hiss at 10 O'clock just doesn't seem right.

Should I just bite the bullet and Mimby it? I'll make the decision but your thoughts are most welcome from the know what I'm talking about group.


----------



## cskippy

I see you also have a Magni 2 Uber, does it also do the same thing with that amp?  What is your source?  Mac? USB?


----------



## koover (Jun 22, 2017)

cskippy said:


> I see you also have a Magni 2 Uber, does it also do the same thing with that amp?  What is your source?  Mac? USB?



I actually use the uber on my HT. No hiss at all. It's really sweet for movies.
USB.
Desktop PC >WYRD> Modi 2>Jot


----------



## cskippy

Just checked the specs for Modi 2 Uber vs Gumby and Modi 2 Uber ouputs 1.5V RMS while Gumby outputs 2.0V RMS.  This means that I'm receiving a louder signal than you so I don't have to crack the volume knob as high to reach the same listening levels.  I'm not sure how much difference it makes but with my TH-X00 and Jot on low gain, single ended input, I can't turn the volume past 10 o'clock for EDM music without it being uncomfortable.  You are going RCA out from Modi 2 -> RCA in on Jot?


----------



## koover

cskippy said:


> Just checked the specs for Modi 2 Uber vs Gumby and Modi 2 Uber ouputs 1.5V RMS while Gumby outputs 2.0V RMS.  This means that I'm receiving a louder signal than you so I don't have to crack the volume knob as high to reach the same listening levels.  I'm not sure how much difference it makes but with my TH-X00 and Jot on low gain, single ended input, I can't turn the volume past 10 o'clock for EDM music without it being uncomfortable.  You are going RCA out from Modi 2 -> RCA in on Jot?



Thanx for looking into that for me, much appreciated. I never took that into consideration. If I'm set at 10 O'clock single ended input with the TXH-00, it's not quiet per say, but it's not that loud at all.
Yes, I'm going RCA out from Modi > RCA to Jot.


----------



## rkw

Swap the Magni and the Jot (you'll have Modi output > Magni input). If you still hear the hiss, it is probably coming from the Modi. If the hiss goes away, the problem is probably the Jot.

Conversely, connect the Jot to where you usually have the Magni, and listen for hiss.

In this way, you can isolate whether the hiss is coming from the Modi or Jot.


----------



## Letmebefrank

koover said:


> Like both you and Bacon Bits stated, it's not the amp. There's black background when I pause any track. Damn, what's the odds of having 3 very sensitive HP's? I thought at least the 650's wouldn't hiss but they do. Now I got to figure out what to listen too that doesn't suck with how they laid the tracks down. It's everything.....damn. So much for nirvana.
> I always run the Jot on low gain as it's got plenty of power and most times I'm between 12 O'clock at 2.
> Thanx for the replies guys.



My vote is your source or your Modi is the problem, considering when you pause the music there is no hiss. My jot is completely silent on high gain with the volume maxed (no music playing or I would be deaf).

Since it isn't the Jot that is hissing (otherwise it would still hiss with music paused), you are going to hear that hiss on any headphone because the Jot is amplifying it right along with the rest of the music. Your headphones are fine, but it seems like your source is bad.


----------



## windcar

Download and install audacity (www.audacityteam.org)
generate a silent tone with the program, play it with volume pot set to max and check if the hiss is still present.


----------



## cskippy

^Don't have headphones on when you do this at the start just to be safe.  Once it's playing you can put them on as you'll know if there is loud SPL.  Just saying be careful as the words "max volume" and "play" are VERY dangerous even at the smallest exposure time.


----------



## earnmyturns

koover said:


> Like both you and Bacon Bits stated, it's not the amp.


I've used a Jot with two DACs, Bimby and Holo Spring KTE 3 (both fed by pretty high-end digital sources). I hear hiss is when I listen to digital remasterings of old analog recordings, but most modern recordings with all-digital masters are totally quiet in the silences/low-volume passages. My hunch is that the problem in with the DAC or its source.


----------



## earnmyturns

windcar said:


> Anyone tried using this amp with DACs using PCM1704 or some other warmer balanced R2R DACs? I am thinking some of those DAC can enhance the bass even further and also give the amp a more euphoric character. This paring might even be competitive with high end equipment. The modi Multibit does not have enough Bass compared to some Audio-GD offering.


I listen to lots of live music, and I never found my Schiit multibit DACs (Bimby and Yggy) to lack bass relative to what I hear live. It's fine if you prefer bass over-emphasis, but I'd not call "high end" to any gear that distorts the real balance among frequencies and instruments.


----------



## koover

Sorry, I don't know how to multi quote

RKW: It takes 2 people to move my rack to swap out the Magni 2 Uber with Jot on my HT so I'll try when I get some help. It's set up in  a unique way.

Letmebefrank: I tend to agree it's probably the Modi. I tried exactly what you recommended. I maxed out the pot (no audio/paused) and no hiss. Dead silent. Very relieved (even though I felt pretty good about it anyway) that it isn't any of my HP's.

Windcar: I'll give it a try. I'm up for anything and will test it out tomorrow after work. Thanks for the suggestion!

Cskippy: I absolutely did what you suggested. Ain't going to blow the drivers on my HP's and especially my ears. Thank you sir for all your posts, interest and help!

I'm stumped guys. Don't get me wrong, my system stills sounds good, but it's that damn hiss I can't deal with. The Jot is a nice amp and packs a punch. Probably should have just got the onboard DAC they offered for another bill. It really pairs well with all 3 sets of my cans. You've all been very helpful and it's more appreciated then you know. This is a great site because of the people, not the content...even though that's cool too!

I'll start all over tomorrow and give all your suggestions (and insights) a try and hopefully I can figure this out with the assistance that you've already offered me already. Thanx again.


----------



## koover (Jun 23, 2017)

earnmyturns said:


> I've used a Jot with two DACs, Bimby and Holo Spring KTE 3 (both fed by pretty high-end digital sources). I hear hiss is when I listen to digital remasterings of old analog recordings, but most modern recordings with all-digital masters are totally quiet in the silences/low-volume passages. My hunch is that the problem in with the DAC or its source.



I primarily listen to modern music (Progressive metal and jazz...how's that for a disparity?) and old school and there's hiss on everything, I'm leaning towards what you guys are saying...the source or DAC.


----------



## koover

One last question, if it's my source, how would I clean that up?


----------



## alpovs

Consider the possibility of a ground loop. See this post or do a search on this thread.


----------



## koover

alpovs said:


> Consider the possibility of a ground loop. See this post or do a search on this thread.



Excellent. Thanx for the nudge in the right direction.
As a side-note, going portable with AQ DFR with THX-00 PH's, perfect black noise floor.


----------



## majo123

Hi I was wondering if anyone has experience of a jot with dac card and a ifi idsd black label? There both about the same price and was wondering from a purely sound point of view which would be considered better?


----------



## ToTo Man

I've not read this thread for a few months so apologies if I'm repeating a question that's already been asked, but I'd like some advice on the best Schiit amp to pair with the HD800S? I have read previously that Schiit amps in general are often not recommended for the HD800 and HD800S as their slightly lean and bright character exaggerates the reported "toppiness" of these headphones. The Jotunheim in particular does not seem to be considered a good pairing from what I have read, is that fair to conclude?  

I own a Valhalla 1 with stock tubes (originally bought a few years ago to pair with my HD600) and currently have a Jotunheim on home demo. I don't hear a significant difference in HF between these two amps, but I do hear differences in other areas. The Jot sounds "drier" and faster and has slightly more prominent upper mids and a leaner and grippier bass, while the "Valhalla" sounds "wetter" with a slightly weightier and longer-lasting bass and a slightly wider and more dimensional soundstage and I think provides a slightly richer soundscape overall.  The Jot sounds more resolving to my ears, while the Valhalla 1 sounds more engaging. To sum up, both amps have their own pros and cons, but I could probably live with either using my HD800S. My main complaint about my Valhalla 1 is the low-level hum that is constantly audible through my headphones. I don't know if Valhalla 2 is any quieter in this regard?

The HD800S are my main headphones but I often get other headphones to demo/review, so I am looking for a decent headphone amp that works well with a variety of headphones. The Jot seems very good value for money and offers wide compatibility, while the Valhalla specs suggest it is best suited to high impedance 'phones.

Or maybe I should consider upgrading to a Lyr 2 or even a Mjolnir 2? I had a Mjolnir 2 on home demo last year and thought it sounded awesome, but I didn't try it with HD800S, only Mr Speakers Ether which I had at the time. The drawback to buying a Mjolnir 2 is finding space for it in my hifi rack because it won't stack neatly on my Bifrost. So many first world problems!....

PS - I currently have a pair of Utopias on home demo to review.  Maybe my ears are now shot after an infection last year (my left ear now maxes out at 12.5kHz and my right ear at 14kHz, which I think is below average for a 31-yr old), but overall I actually prefer the sound profile of my HD800S.  The Utopias have superior bass and mids, but I'm finding the HF a bit soft and rolled off.  They don't have the 'airiness' of the HD800S.  I suppose I should be relieved because my preference for the HD800S has saved me some serious $$$!...


----------



## MWSVette

ToTo Man said:


> I've not read this thread for a few months so apologies if I'm repeating a question that's already been asked, but I'd like some advice on the best Schiit amp to pair with the HD800S? I have read previously that Schiit amps in general are often not recommended for the HD800 and HD800S as their slightly lean and bright character exaggerates the reported "toppiness" of these headphones. The Jotunheim in particular does not seem to be considered a good pairing from what I have read, is that fair to conclude?
> 
> I own a Valhalla 1 with stock tubes (originally bought a few years ago to pair with my HD600) and currently have a Jotunheim on home demo. I don't hear a significant difference in HF between these two amps, but I do hear differences in other areas. The Jot sounds "drier" and faster and has slightly more prominent upper mids and a leaner and grippier bass, while the "Valhalla" sounds "wetter" with a slightly weightier and longer-lasting bass and a slightly wider and more dimensional soundstage and I think provides a slightly richer soundscape overall.  The Jot sounds more resolving to my ears, while the Valhalla 1 sounds more engaging. To sum up, both amps have their own pros and cons, but I could probably live with either using my HD800S. My main complaint about my Valhalla 1 is the low-level hum that is constantly audible through my headphones. I don't know if Valhalla 2 is any quieter in this regard?
> 
> ...



The MJ2 is an impressive amp and with some good tubes can make the HD800S sing...


----------



## GearMe

ToTo Man said:


> ... *My main complaint about my Valhalla 1 is the low-level hum that is constantly audible through my headphones. I don't know if Valhalla 2 is any quieter in this regard?*...



No hum on my Valhalla 2.  That said, could the hum be somewhere else in your audio chain with your Valhalla 1?


----------



## MWSVette

The lowering of the noise floor was one of the big improvements achieved by use DC heaters for the tubes in the Valhalla 2 vs the original Valhalla...


----------



## Letmebefrank

ToTo Man said:


> My main complaint about my Valhalla 1 is the low-level hum that is constantly audible through my headphones. I don't know if Valhalla 2 is any quieter in this regard?



I don't know about the Valhalla 2, but I had a constant low hum in my Jotunheim that was audible at all times. This was probably because I have a high end desktop PC, 2 monitors, my Schiit and all other various electronics on my desk plugged into the same power strip, so I replaced my crap Monster power strip with a Furman PST-8D and now my Jot is dead silent with nothing playing, even at max volume on high gain.


----------



## ToTo Man (Jun 26, 2017)

GearMe said:


> No hum on my Valhalla 2.  That said, could the hum be somewhere else in your audio chain with your Valhalla 1?





MWSVette said:


> The lowering of the noise floor was one of the big improvements achieved by use DC heaters for the tubes in the Valhalla 2 vs the original Valhalla...





Letmebefrank said:


> I don't know about the Valhalla 2, but I had a constant low hum in my Jotunheim that was audible at all times. This was probably because I have a high end desktop PC, 2 monitors, my Schiit and all other various electronics on my desk plugged into the same power strip, so I replaced my crap Monster power strip with a Furman PST-8D and now my Jot is dead silent with nothing playing, even at max volume on high gain.



The hum is just on my Valhalla, none of my other Schiit gear hums.  The chassis of the amp hums, and there is also hum through the headphones.  I sent it off to Electromod last year who replaced the PS but then put the original one back in because the replacement actually hummed slightly louder than the original!  If the Valhalla 2 is quieter then I might consider upgrading to it.  For those who have heard the Valhalla 2, Jotunheim, Lyr 2 and Mjolnir 2 I'd be very grateful for a summary comparison?


----------



## rkw (Jun 26, 2017)

ToTo Man said:


> My main complaint about my Valhalla 1 is the low-level hum that is constantly audible through my headphones.


The hum is most likely a grounding problem in your system. Try unplugging and replugging all the tubes and connectors. Also search the forum ("valhalla hum") for this issue. For example: https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/is-this-a-faulty-valhalla-tubes.561281/

*Edit:*


ToTo Man said:


> The chassis of the amp hums


Okay, that's not normal. You have a malfunctioning unit.


----------



## ToTo Man

Last night I replaced the OEM HD800S single-ended cable with the OEM HD800S balanced cable so I could try the balanced drive on the Jotunheim.  A subtle but noticeable improvement was heard in the dynamics, especially the bass which seems to hit with slightly more authority now.  I also hear an improvement in the layering and separation of sounds.  I think this improvement seals the deal for me with the Jot, as there is no other alternative apart from Mjolnir 2 or Ragnarok if I want to have balanced drive.


----------



## ETanner

ToTo Man said:


> Last night I replaced the OEM HD800S single-ended cable with the OEM HD800S balanced cable so I could try the balanced drive on the Jotunheim.  A subtle but noticeable improvement was heard in the dynamics, especially the bass which seems to hit with slightly more authority now.  I also hear an improvement in the layering and separation of sounds.  I think this improvement seals the deal for me with the Jot, as there is no other alternative apart from Mjolnir 2 or Ragnarok if I want to have balanced drive.



I've been seriously considering the same issues and went the other direction to Mjolnir 2 for the tubes with my HD800. With the soon to be released Vidar amp I'll have tubes or SS in my preamp. Still no remote but that's not a deal breaker for me.


----------



## Topspin70

ToTo Man said:


> Last night I replaced the OEM HD800S single-ended cable with the OEM HD800S balanced cable so I could try the balanced drive on the Jotunheim.  A subtle but noticeable improvement was heard in the dynamics, especially the bass which seems to hit with slightly more authority now.  I also hear an improvement in the layering and separation of sounds.  I think this improvement seals the deal for me with the Jot, as there is no other alternative apart from Mjolnir 2 or Ragnarok if I want to have balanced drive.



Are you using balanced input? Is that recommended to maximise the benefit of the balanced output to the cans? I'm curious cuz that was suggested for my previous amp the Taurus MK2. They called it a full-balanced topology if I"m not mistaken.


----------



## ToTo Man

Topspin70 said:


> Are you using balanced input? Is that recommended to maximise the benefit of the balanced output to the cans? I'm curious cuz that was suggested for my previous amp the Taurus MK2. They called it a full-balanced topology if I"m not mistaken.



I don't yet have a balanced DAC so am just using the single-ended outputs from my Bifrost 4490 into Jot.  From what I have read from previous posts, you still get sonic improvement on Jot by using the balanced headphone output even if you use the single-ended input.  However it is course reasonable to assume that *maximum* sonic benefit will be obtained if *all* parts of the chain are balanced.


----------



## Topspin70

ToTo Man said:


> I don't yet have a balanced DAC so am just using the single-ended outputs from my Bifrost 4490 into Jot.  From what I have read from previous posts, you still get sonic improvement on Jot by using the balanced headphone output even if you use the single-ended input.  However it is course reasonable to assume that *maximum* sonic benefit will be obtained if *all* parts of the chain are balanced.



Thanks. I guessed as much that the question has been raised before in this thread. I'll try to read up and see what everyone says. But you're right, if the design is balanced all the way through, it should sound best when we go balance in and out.


----------



## knowhatimean

Bacon Bits said:


> Might just be the recording if you don't hear anything when nothing is playing.


He,he,he........ Yeah, it pretty much has to be how the SPL of the recording was set when the recording was mastered !

You'd be pretty surprised at the amount of recorded music where even having a "low noisefloor" was even realistically a consideration that was part of recording decisions that were made !


----------



## koover (Jun 28, 2017)

knowhatimean said:


> He,he,he........ Yeah, it pretty much has to be how the SPL of the recording was set when the recording was mastered !
> 
> You'd be pretty surprised at the amount of recorded music where even having a "low noisefloor" was even realistically a consideration that was part of recording decisions that were made !



I'm starting to strongly believe this is the issue. I stated quite a few posts back that I don't hear it on the DFR (portable) ......until I cranked up the volume some more. It doesn't matter what device as I'm hearing it on pretty much everything. That's what's surprising that I'm so into headphones now, I'm finding out most recorded music sucks with all the hiss and noise you hear once you have any type of volume. Looking for nirvana without taking out a second mortgage..... but??

Ignorant question.....does it really matter how much you spend on an amp or DAC to rid all the noise-floor?  Isn't it more in the lines of cleaning up your power? Lose USB? .....or just dealing with it because of how it was recorded?

I guess I'm learning and believing that you should get some good mid level cans with a decent amp and a better DAC to get really solid results. Yes? No?


----------



## knowhatimean

koover said:


> I'm starting to strongly believe this is the issue. I stated quite a few posts back that I don't hear it on the DFR (portable) ......until I cranked up the volume some more. It doesn't matter what device as I'm hearing it on pretty much everything. That's what's surprising that I'm so into headphones now, I'm finding out most recorded music sucks with all the hiss and noise you hear once you have any type of volume. Looking for nirvana without taking out a second mortgage..... but??
> 
> Ignorant question.....does it really matter how much you spend on an amp or DAC to rid all the noise-floor?  Isn't it more in the lines of cleaning up your power? Lose USB? .....or just dealing with it because of how it was recorded?
> 
> I guess I'm learning and believing that you should get some good mid level cans with a decent amp and a better DAC to get really solid results. Yes? No?


There aren't really any 'Dumb' or 'Ignorant' questions about "How much you should spend" on Anything; It's really just a matter of allowing your personal experience level to guide you along with where your comfort level of spending $$$ will take you after you find the answers to what you find puzzling ! Naturally, it's always a good idea to test "the Waters" before taking a flying leap in.

Take all the advice you get from anyone (present company included) with a grain of salt . (Yeah.... I know I'm tiptoeing around making a definitive statement on what to do;but my Brain Cells are still warming up)

I tend to think that the 2 major reasons for hearing 'Noise' from the music we listen to can usually be attributed to 1 (or both) of 2 things ! The first I've mentioned already, that being that it exists in the recording already (That you don't hear it in a lot of modern digital recordings has more to do with 'Digital Compression' than anything else). I'm personally not thrilled about the High Sensitivity rating of most Headphones these days. I haven't done the portable rig listening 'thing' for awhile now (I would only do so if I could strap my Equitech 1.5Q BPT & Metrum Acoustics Hex DAC to my back; That's not happening !). I have absolutely no complaints about any type of 'Noise' ,my complaint is finding the absolutely 'dialed in/Dynamically correct' volume setting from my Amp*. I can get it close,but it's somewhat a PITA to hear what I know exists on most of the recorded music I own.  *(Not a Jot; But I'm considering one mostly due to it's low gain capability & the High Sensitivity of my NO; I like these cans a lot hate the stupid Sensitivity)

Hmmm.... after mentioning all this , I personally believe that the amp or DAC that just about anyone happens to be using have very little bearing on the 'Noise' that most people object to. These components aren't creating it ! The noise is in the source signal path. My Equitech BPT can address the below the 'floor' noise that was generated in the recorded signal & became part of what was recorded (because some noise from a mic cable or other random electrical noise) at the time of the recording process) because it is filtering out this 'added' part of the musical signal. DACs & amps aren't able to operate on this type of signal level. I'll repeat myself & say the fault lies mostly on most recorded music (Which for personal 'Philosophical Reasoning' I absolutely refuse to listen to for technical reasons alone .... nevermind my even mentioning what I'm musically interested in listening to; Next to no 'Muse' in too much of what's referred to as Music these days


----------



## koover

knowhatimean said:


> There aren't really any 'Dumb' or 'Ignorant' questions about "How much you should spend" on Anything; It's really just a matter of allowing your personal experience level to guide you along with where your comfort level of spending $$$ will take you after you find the answers to what you find puzzling ! Naturally, it's always a good idea to test "the Waters" before taking a flying leap in.
> 
> Take all the advice you get from anyone (present company included) with a grain of salt . (Yeah.... I know I'm tiptoeing around making a definitive statement on what to do;but my Brain Cells are still warming up)
> 
> ...


----------



## Topspin70

Brand new Jot owner here. Knowing all the things I heard about it, I braced myself for the first listen. No brightness. No noise. Just clean, clear beautiful detailed music. Love it. Will give it some time to burn-in, oh I mean settle down, before really assessing what it's like.


----------



## knowhatimean

Topspin70 said:


> Brand new Jot owner here. Knowing all the things I heard about it, I braced myself for the first listen. No brightness. No noise. Just clean, clear beautiful detailed music. Love it. Will give it some time to burn-in, oh I mean settle down, before really assessing what it's like.


You didn't actually "Do a backup" & change your wording from 'burn in' to 'settle down' did you ?

The passive components DO actually go through some physical changes (well the parts such as transformers & capacitors;slight as the changes might be) after a few cycles of Powering ON/OFF as there is a difference between how immediate/direct 'energy' sounds as opposed to 'stored/discharged' energy sounds as the signal moves through the circuit. Yeah, I know it's a weird concept to get your head around ,  by the same token though talking about things 'settling down' is just a 'Re-Badge' of the term Burn in. Actually , just a dumbed down non explanation of why an amp sounds a bit different after some time of use.

Then there's the even Dumber explanation that we've just gotten "Used to how the amp sounds". He,he.he..... I'm continuously more puzzled by many listeners thought processing than how my Audio equipment works for me !


----------



## koover (Jun 30, 2017)

knowhatimean said:


> You didn't actually "Do a backup" & change your wording from 'burn in' to 'settle down' did you ?
> 
> The passive components DO actually go through some physical changes (well the parts such as transformers & capacitors;slight as the changes might be) after a few cycles of Powering ON/OFF as there is a difference between how immediate/direct 'energy' sounds as opposed to 'stored/discharged' energy sounds as the signal moves through the circuit. Yeah, I know it's a weird concept to get your head around ,  by the same token though talking about things 'settling down' is just a 'Re-Badge' of the term Burn in. Actually , just a dumbed down non explanation of why an amp sounds a bit different after some time of use.
> 
> Then there's the even Dumber explanation that we've just gotten "Used to how the amp sounds". He,he.he..... I'm continuously more puzzled by many listeners thought processing than how my Audio equipment works for me !



If I was someone who knows anything about this stuff, I  would find it quite obvious I don't know my ass from a hole in the ground as I'm learning and quickly may I add. So now that this is  outta the way, statement then question.
Differing opinions from what I've read on powering up and down. I've now had my Jot for about 3 months. With that said....

So is it best to leave the Jot up and running all the time or power down daily or periodically?
I also read that for DAC's you should leave powered up all the time. Or is it the same concept as an amp?


----------



## Topspin70

knowhatimean said:


> You didn't actually "Do a backup" & change your wording from 'burn in' to 'settle down' did you ?
> 
> The passive components DO actually go through some physical changes (well the parts such as transformers & capacitors;slight as the changes might be) after a few cycles of Powering ON/OFF as there is a difference between how immediate/direct 'energy' sounds as opposed to 'stored/discharged' energy sounds as the signal moves through the circuit. Yeah, I know it's a weird concept to get your head around ,  by the same token though talking about things 'settling down' is just a 'Re-Badge' of the term Burn in. Actually , just a dumbed down non explanation of why an amp sounds a bit different after some time of use.
> 
> Then there's the even Dumber explanation that we've just gotten "Used to how the amp sounds". He,he.he..... I'm continuously more puzzled by many listeners thought processing than how my Audio equipment works for me !



Haha. Well I did meant burn-in. Then I remembered there are some don't-go-there topics in this forum and burn-in is one of them. The other big one obviously is cables. (I hear pitchforks rattling just typing the word.)

All my years of hi-fi and then head-fi tell me burn-in matters and makes a difference and it's very evident to my ears. Perhaps most here think so too, for different reasons such as those you described. Maybe the naysaying is limited to cans, but to avoid another groundhog day, I'll just insert the fail-safe qualifier: YMMV.


----------



## Topspin70

By the way I'm on to my 12th hour of listening (I did stop to feed myself, circulate blood flow, etc.) and the Jot keeps getting better. Call it new toy syndrome or whatever, but I'm hearing pitch black background, details I never knew was there, and pin-sharp separation. Transparency and accuracy are top-notch.


----------



## knowhatimean

koover said:


> If I was someone who knows anything about this stuff, I  would find it quite obvious I don't know my ass from a hole in the ground as I'm learning and quickly may I add. So now that this is  outta the way, statement then question.
> Differing opinions from what I've read on powering up and down. I've now had my Jot for about 3 months. With that said....
> 
> So is it best to leave the Jot up and running all the time or power down daily or periodically?
> I also read that for DAC's you should leave powered up all the time. Or is it the same concept as an amp?


As far as the Jot (& just about any Headphone amp is concerned) it really comes down to being the Users choice ,particularly due to the fact it's a SS amp. SS amps generally attain a fuller more dynamic sound to them after they been on at least a half hour or so (If you're talking about starting from an amp that's been off for a few hours). It's not going to hurt anything to leave it on, but get into the habit of  lowering the volume completely everytime you've finished listening. In truth it's probably not necessary to leave it on constantly , it depends on how far apart your listening sessions tend to be (& how willing you are to listen to your music before the amp's reached a state of 'Thermal Stasis': & is giving you a fuller dynamic renderering of the music being played)

As far as DACs are concerned I leave my Auraliti Pk100 DFP & Metrum Hex DAC on at all times, as Digital music needs to turned on & "forgotten that there was a means to turn off" if you are 'serious' about trying to think that you're listening to 'Music' without the constant artifacts that tell you it's 'Digital' first. If your Jot is a 'Damp' (Or as I call them a "confused identity Audio component") I would leave it on.

My Equitech 1.5Q BPT conditioner allows me to disregard a lot of my 'listening rules' ,as it is just ridiculously exceptional at serving up whatever the music I listen to needs to sound like real music being played in realistically proportioned recording locations (mostly live perspective). Unfortunately, I paid about 4x the cost of the Jot. for it used & I don't believe it even available anymore. Long explanation/description short , I would probably be unable to listen to my music without being able to leave the Digital side of things (at least) on at all times


----------



## koover

knowhatimean said:


> As far as the Jot (& just about any Headphone amp is concerned) it really comes down to being the Users choice ,particularly due to the fact it's a SS amp. SS amps generally attain a fuller more dynamic sound to them after they been on at least a half hour or so (If you're talking about starting from an amp that's been off for a few hours). It's not going to hurt anything to leave it on, but get into the habit of  lowering the volume completely everytime you've finished listening. In truth it's probably not necessary to leave it on constantly , it depends on how far apart your listening sessions tend to be (& how willing you are to listen to your music before the amp's reached a state of 'Thermal Stasis': & is giving you a fuller dynamic renderering of the music being played)
> 
> As far as DACs are concerned I leave my Auraliti Pk100 DFP & Metrum Hex DAC on at all times, as Digital music needs to turned on & "forgotten that there was a means to turn off" if you are 'serious' about trying to think that you're listening to 'Music' without the constant artifacts that tell you it's 'Digital' first. If your Jot is a 'Damp' (Or as I call them a "confused identity Audio component") I would leave it on.
> 
> My Equitech 1.5Q BPT conditioner allows me to disregard a lot of my 'listening rules' ,as it is just ridiculously exceptional at serving up whatever the music I listen to needs to sound like real music being played in realistically proportioned recording locations (mostly live perspective). Unfortunately, I paid about 4x the cost of the Jot. for it used & I don't believe it even available anymore. Long explanation/description short , I would probably be unable to listen to my music without being able to leave the Digital side of things (at least) on at all times



Appreciate the input man!


----------



## knowhatimean

Topspin70 said:


> Haha. Well I did meant burn-in. Then I remembered there are some don't-go-there topics in this forum and burn-in is one of them. The other big one obviously is cables. (I hear pitchforks rattling just typing the word.)
> 
> All my years of hi-fi and then head-fi tell me burn-in matters and makes a difference and it's very evident to my ears. Perhaps most here think so too, for different reasons such as those you described. Maybe the naysaying is limited to cans, but to avoid another groundhog day, I'll just insert the fail-safe qualifier: YMMV.


Oops...... I've been away from the forum for a while !!!!!

I made the mistake of placing a reference to another forum here some time back, that I was gracious enough to be apologetic for.  I don't want to do that a second time ! (I wasn't really at fault that time)

(Political Correctness is really an Oxymoron ; Think about it. It's nothing more than an excuse for those who only understand the "Face Value" of things said or written according to their own interpretation,or as the case may be mis-interpretation) EMSVITH (Everyone's Mileage Should Vary If They're Human)


----------



## jimmers

knowhatimean said:


> ...Political Correctness is really an Oxymoron...



Especially with some current "politicians"


----------



## GearMe

Topspin70 said:


> Haha. Well I did meant burn-in. Then I remembered there are some don't-go-there topics in this forum and burn-in is one of them. The other big one obviously is cables. (I hear pitchforks rattling just typing the word.)
> 
> All my years of hi-fi and then head-fi tell me burn-in matters and makes a difference and it's very evident to my ears. Perhaps most here think so too, for different reasons such as those you described. Maybe the naysaying is limited to cans, but to avoid another groundhog day, I'll just insert the fail-safe qualifier: YMMV.



Ahhhhh, yes...but the most change in the sound signature is _clearly_ experienced due to Cable Burn-in!  Just 40 hours for copper and roughly 100 for silver (https://www.moon-audio.com/audio-cable-break-in-time).


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## Letmebefrank (Jun 30, 2017)

I always put the headphones on and then wrap my head in saran wrap to seal in the air between the drivers and my ears, then burn in the air for at least 50 hours. This will take your breath away! Other results include euphoric visions and bright lights.

Disclaimer: These stunts are performed by trained professionals. Do not try this at home.


----------



## Topspin70

knowhatimean said:


> Oops...... I've been away from the forum for a while !!!!!
> 
> I made the mistake of placing a reference to another forum here some time back, that I was gracious enough to be apologetic for.  I don't want to do that a second time ! (I wasn't really at fault that time)
> 
> (Political Correctness is really an Oxymoron ; Think about it. It's nothing more than an excuse for those who only understand the "Face Value" of things said or written according to their own interpretation,or as the case may be mis-interpretation) EMSVITH (Everyone's Mileage Should Vary If They're Human)



The force is strong among those who got their truth from someone who got their truth from someone who is pretty damn certain it is the truth. They cannot allow varying mileages. They will make sure their truth is everyone else's truth too. They work in hordes. I've witnessed it. It's horrifying. I'm bolting my doors now.


----------



## Topspin70

GearMe said:


> Ahhhhh, yes...but the most change in the sound signature is _clearly_ experienced due to Cable Burn-in!  Just 40 hours for copper and roughly 100 for silver (https://www.moon-audio.com/audio-cable-break-in-time).



Nah, cables don't matter. My Himalayan goat paw isolation footers matter. Fail-safe qualifier: YMMV.


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## jimmers (Jun 30, 2017)

GearMe said:


> Ahhhhh, yes...but the most change in the sound signature is _clearly_ experienced due to Cable Burn-in!  Just 40 hours for copper and roughly 100 for silver (https://www.moon-audio.com/audio-cable-break-in-time).


Even if you cook them in the microwave?

Actually you should connect them up to DC for a few days (preferably solar sourced) to flush out all the stale free electrons left over from manufacturing and replace them with fresh "clean" ones.


----------



## Zree

Sorry if this question has been asked I have been looking at reviews for the Burson Soloist SL Mk II, and the Jotunheim, I expect either would be a great amp for me, and I am just trying to see how a decent SS amp does, but would like to hear from some that may have listened to both. Neither seem to be available in the Dallas area. I do not have a balanced out DAC, but like the idea of future capability if it stacks up well. I would be looking at running this into HD600 and EL-8. Basically still trying to get the basics organized in my head, and ears. I read through the Burson reviews on this forum, saw a similar question asked but did not see a response. Hopefully will have some luck here.


----------



## abirdie4me

Zree said:


> Sorry if this question has been asked I have been looking at reviews for the Burson Soloist SL Mk II, and the Jotunheim, I expect either would be a great amp for me, and I am just trying to see how a decent SS amp does, but would like to hear from some that may have listened to both. Neither seem to be available in the Dallas area. I do not have a balanced out DAC, but like the idea of future capability if it stacks up well. I would be looking at running this into HD600 and EL-8. Basically still trying to get the basics organized in my head, and ears. I read through the Burson reviews on this forum, saw a similar question asked but did not see a response. Hopefully will have some luck here.



I have no experience with Burson, but have the Jot and HD600 and previously had EL-8. (I also live in Frisco, by the way). To my ears, the Jotunheim sounded good with the EL-8, but I don’t really love the HD600 since I find them boring and severely lacking in bass. They do sound better with the Jot, but it’s not by leaps and bounds. If HD600 is your primary headphone, I’d recommend a tube amp to warm them up somewhat (if you prefer a warmer sound). However, I LOVE the Jot with my Focal Elear and Fostex TH-X00, really gives them a nice punchy sound with good separation. I find the Jot to be great with headphones that already have good bass signatures, it seems to clean up a bit of the muddiness of the lows and adds a bit of a punch as well. My dac is currently the internal Jot USB dac, but I have a Mimby coming this weekend that I’m looking forward to hearing.

If you haven’t been to Audio Concepts in Dallas, I highly recommend it. They don’t have the specific equipment you are asking about, but they do have a nice headphone room with most of the Audeze (including EL-8) and Sennheiser range, as well as several amps you can sample as well. Really nice people in there, they sold me a Mojo that I’ve since sold to fund the Jot.


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## koover (Jul 1, 2017)

abirdie4me said:


> I have no experience with Burson, but have the Jot and HD600 and previously had EL-8. (I also live in Frisco, by the way). To my ears, the Jotunheim sounded good with the EL-8, but I don’t really love the HD600 since I find them boring and severely lacking in bass. They do sound better with the Jot, but it’s not by leaps and bounds. If HD600 is your primary headphone, I’d recommend a tube amp to warm them up somewhat (if you prefer a warmer sound). However, I LOVE the Jot with my Focal Elear and Fostex TH-X00, really gives them a nice punchy sound with good separation. I find the Jot to be great with headphones that already have good bass signatures, it seems to clean up a bit of the muddiness of the lows and adds a bit of a punch as well. My dac is currently the internal Jot USB dac, but I have a Mimby coming this weekend that I’m looking forward to hearing.
> 
> If you haven’t been to Audio Concepts in Dallas, I highly recommend it. They don’t have the specific equipment you are asking about, but they do have a nice headphone room with most of the Audeze (including EL-8) and Sennheiser range, as well as several amps you can sample as well. Really nice people in there, they sold me a Mojo that I’ve since sold to fund the Jot.



I just got my Mimby today paired with my Jot and man, what a huge step up from the basic Modi. I cycled through all my phones and all improved dramatically. But nothing sounded better the the THX-00 PH's. It's like a new set of cans. This stack is made for each other. Bass is punchier, treble is actually recessed just a tad (little to no sibilance) where it actually sounds like true symbols without losing its fun sound. It's just a fuller and more organic sound. Your gonna love that stack with your Fostex.


----------



## knowhatimean

Topspin70 said:


> The force is strong among those who got their truth from someone who got their truth from someone who is pretty damn certain it is the truth. They cannot allow varying mileages. They will make sure their truth is everyone else's truth too. They work in hordes. I've witnessed it. It's horrifying. I'm bolting my doors now.


I don't think you're taking me 'Ceriously'(logic derived from breakfast cereal boxes) enough..... man !

(& I'll quit this diversion I started, so everyone can continue with the 'reglar' thread discussion)


----------



## DavidA

Zree said:


> Sorry if this question has been asked I have been looking at reviews for the Burson Soloist SL Mk II, and the Jotunheim, I expect either would be a great amp for me, and I am just trying to see how a decent SS amp does, but would like to hear from some that may have listened to both. Neither seem to be available in the Dallas area. I do not have a balanced out DAC, but like the idea of future capability if it stacks up well. I would be looking at running this into HD600 and EL-8. Basically still trying to get the basics organized in my head, and ears. I read through the Burson reviews on this forum, saw a similar question asked but did not see a response. Hopefully will have some luck here.



I've only heard the Burson Soloist SL and not the Mk2 once a while ago and the Jot twice when a friend brought it over but neither are amps I would use with the HD600 or EL8, both amps are on the brighter side to me and didn't pair well with either headphone.  For the EL8 a hybrid or warmer amp SS amp like the Liquid Carbon, G-109, Polaris, Ember, or HA-501 would be my amp of choice and for the HD600 I would recommend the BH Crack but the HD600 is one of the few that I've sold since it has a peak in the 4-5khz range that bothered me at times.


----------



## abirdie4me

DavidA said:


> I've only heard the Burson Soloist SL and not the Mk2 once a while ago and the Jot twice when a friend brought it over but neither are amps I would use with the HD600 or EL8, both amps are on the brighter side to me and didn't pair well with either headphone.  For the EL8 a hybrid or warmer amp SS amp like the Liquid Carbon, G-109, Polaris, Ember, or HA-501 would be my amp of choice and for the HD600 I would recommend the BH Crack but the HD600 is one of the few that I've sold since it has a peak in the 4-5khz range that bothered me at times.



Totally agree, both of those headphones need a warmer amp.


----------



## ToTo Man

abirdie4me said:


> Totally agree, both of those headphones need a warmer amp.



Or you could just apply a little parametric EQ to "warm up" the HD600 a bit (i.e. low shelf boost below 80Hz and a notch filter from 3kHz to 5kHz).  That way you won't end up with an amp that's too warm for other headphones if you decide subsequently to move on from the HD600.


----------



## rkw

abirdie4me said:


> I don’t really love the HD600 since I find them boring and severely lacking in bass They do sound better with the Jot, but it’s not by leaps and bounds. If HD600 is your primary headphone, I’d recommend a tube amp to warm them up somewhat (if you prefer a warmer sound). However, I LOVE the Jot with my Focal Elear and Fostex TH-X00.


The HD600 isn't lacking in bass. It just has a neutral, accurate presentation and doesn't boost the bass like the TH-X00. The HD600 requires good amplification and benefits from using the balanced output of the Jot.


----------



## Zree

Thank you all for the replies. I do have a DV336se currently, and do like this with the HD600, in fact I think with this the 600's sound better than the EL-8's to me. Did a little tube swapping with HD600, but did not with EL-8. May have to try that.
I am actually looking to try and brighten the sound with a SS amp. One thing that did surprise me is that I find that the 8's require me to turn up the amp for similar volume on the HD600. Again, this is really some experimentation, to decide which way to progress, definitely not and end game choice.
Thanks.


----------



## DavidA

Zree said:


> Thank you all for the replies. I do have a DV336se currently, and do like this with the HD600, in fact I think with this the 600's sound better than the EL-8's to me. Did a little tube swapping with HD600, but did not with EL-8. May have to try that.
> I am actually looking to try and brighten the sound with a SS amp. One thing that did surprise me is that I find that the 8's require me to turn up the amp for similar volume on the HD600. Again, this is really some experimentation, to decide which way to progress, definitely not and end game choice.
> Thanks.



The HD600 will probably sound better paired with the DV336 since its an OTL amp similar to a BH Crack with higher output impedance.  The EL-8 is a planar headphone that has a low impedance and does not sound good with a BH Crack to me.  You have two headphones that are different in the type of amps that they pair well with, HD600 is high impedance and usually goes better with OTL (tube) amps while the EL-8 is a low impedance planar that goes better with a low output impedance amp like the Jot, Liquid Carbon, or Lyr2.  If you want only one amp to drive both headphones look for a hybrid amp like the Ember or similar where you can adjust the output impedance of the amp to better match your various headphones.


----------



## ToTo Man (Jul 1, 2017)

DavidA said:


> The HD600 will probably sound better paired with the DV336 since its an OTL amp similar to a BH Crack with higher output impedance.  The EL-8 is a planar headphone that has a low impedance and does not sound good with a BH Crack to me.  You have two headphones that are different in the type of amps that they pair well with, HD600 is high impedance and usually goes better with OTL (tube) amps while the EL-8 is a low impedance planar that goes better with a low output impedance amp like the Jot, Liquid Carbon, or Lyr2.  If you want only one amp to drive both headphones look for a hybrid amp like the Ember or similar where you can adjust the output impedance of the amp to better match your various headphones.



I think I understand why a low impedance headphone works best with a low output impedance amplifier, but I'd like to learn why a high impedance headphone doesn't also benefit from a low output impedance amplifier, at least from a theoretical/technical perspective, if the objective is fast, responsive and grippy bass?  Is it because manufacturers intentionally voice their high impedance headphones to sound best with high output impedance amplifiers?

EDIT - Incidentally, I currently have a Jot and Phonitor 2 on demo and to my ears, using HD800S, both amps sound virtually identical.  I presume this is because these two headphone amps share very similar output impedances (0.1 ohms for Jot vs 0.18 ohms for Phonitor 2)?


----------



## DavidA

ToTo Man said:


> I think I understand why a low impedance headphone works best with a low output impedance amplifier, but I'd like to learn why a high impedance headphone doesn't also benefit from a low output impedance amplifier, at least from a theoretical/technical perspective, if the objective is fast, responsive and grippy bass?  Is it because manufacturers intentionally voice their high impedance headphones to sound best with high output impedance amplifiers?
> 
> EDIT - Incidentally, I currently have a Jot and Phonitor 2 on demo and to my ears, using HD800S, both amps sound virtually identical.  I presume this is because these two headphone amps share very similar output impedances (0.1 ohms for Jot vs 0.18 ohms for Phonitor 2)?



One possibility of high impedance headphones not benefiting or sounding as good could be that the damping factor is too high and the driver is being overly restrained but I think its more likely that they are tuned by the manufactures as you suggest.  My theory about the too high damping factor is from changing the output impedance of my Ember which changes the tone/sound signature of all headphones but seems to have more of an effect on higher impedance headphones like the HD600, HD650, HD800 and T1.  I'm not an electronics engineer so I don't know the exact science but it has to do with voltage swings and the amount of current that an amp has which is a function of the amp design from my limited research.


----------



## ToTo Man (Jul 2, 2017)

DavidA said:


> One possibility of high impedance headphones not benefiting or sounding as good could be that the damping factor is too high and the driver is being overly restrained but I think its more likely that they are tuned by the manufactures as you suggest.  My theory about the too high damping factor is from changing the output impedance of my Ember which changes the tone/sound signature of all headphones but seems to have more of an effect on higher impedance headphones like the HD600, HD650, HD800 and T1.  I'm not an electronics engineer so I don't know the exact science but it has to do with voltage swings and the amount of current that an amp has which is a function of the amp design from my limited research.



I just stumbled upon an article by nwavguy which has helped me understand this relationship better,


----------



## jimmers

ToTo Man said:


> I just stumbled upon this article: http://nwavguy.blogspot.co.uk/2011/0...impedance.html which has helped me understand this relationship better,


It's nice that we can refer to nwavguy again without being deleted or banned


----------



## ToTo Man (Jul 2, 2017)

jimmers said:


> It's nice that we can refer to nwavguy again without being deleted or banned



Oops, did I do something wrong?  I've now removed the link from my post.


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## jimmers (Jul 2, 2017)

ToTo Man said:


> Oops, did I do something wrong?  I've now removed the link from my post.



I hope not.

You can read Schiit's view here:
https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/s...robable-start-up.701900/page-52#post-10463052

or nwavguy's on his blog, which is still existing despite his disappearance after his last post there; the people who commercialised  his O2 and ODAC deny any knowledge of what happened with him, as does Tyll of innerfidelity who was being helped with how to use his audio analyser by him...


----------



## ToTo Man

jimmers said:


> I hope not.
> 
> You can read Schiit's view here:
> https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/s...robable-start-up.701900/page-52#post-10463052
> ...



Thanks for that, I honestly had no idea who nwavguy was or the connection to Schiit!...


----------



## CarlosUnchained

ToTo Man said:


> Or you could just apply a little parametric EQ to "warm up" the HD600 a bit (i.e. low shelf boost below 80Hz and a notch filter from 3kHz to 5kHz).  That way you won't end up with an amp that's too warm for other headphones if you decide subsequently to move on from the HD600.



I'm looking amp for my LCD-X, something warmish. But then I realized that I can EQ depending on the mood and go for a Jot instead of a Lyr 2.


----------



## Zree

I decided to order a Jot as well, and already got confirmation it shipped. I am very curious to see how it performs. I am going to build a balanced cable for the HD600s, since it seems easy enough, but wondering about one for the EL-8, thinking C3 Audio seems reasonable? Many reviews online have said that balanced is the way to go, and that it makes an audible difference. Wondering if anyone can explain why from a physical perspective? Just curious, since I can also find articles online that say that balanced supplies may be inferior to unbalanced. I am going to try both methods to see for myself, but wanted to see what others thought.
I do have another question though, how are people EQ-ing headphones. Do you have a dedicated EQ in line? I typically try to keep things mostly neutral, wanting to hear what the musician was trying to present, but can understand how some adjustment might be of value on occasion.


----------



## sonic2911

Get Jot as an amp is a solid choice, no complaints at all but its DAC is suck/trash/cancer...be ware before order. get an external DAC like Modi 2 uber will save you.


----------



## Zree

Sonic2911, Thanks for the feedback. I have read some reviews saying the built in was pretty good, and others suggesting a separate is a better option, as you suggest. I already have a Modi 2 multi, so that is what I am planning to use.


----------



## sonic2911

Zree said:


> Sonic2911, Thanks for the feedback. I have read some reviews saying the built in was pretty good, and others suggesting a separate is a better option, as you suggest. I already have a Modi 2 multi, so that is what I am planning to use.


It's pretty good as an amp like I said but you shouldn't opt-in for its DAC, not a smart choice.


----------



## DavidA

Zree said:


> I decided to order a Jot as well, and already got confirmation it shipped. I am very curious to see how it performs. I am going to build a balanced cable for the HD600s, since it seems easy enough, but wondering about one for the EL-8, thinking C3 Audio seems reasonable? Many reviews online have said that balanced is the way to go, and that it makes an audible difference. Wondering if anyone can explain why from a physical perspective? Just curious, since I can also find articles online that say that balanced supplies may be inferior to unbalanced. I am going to try both methods to see for myself, but wanted to see what others thought.
> I do have another question though, how are people EQ-ing headphones. Do you have a dedicated EQ in line? I typically try to keep things mostly neutral, wanting to hear what the musician was trying to present, but can understand how some adjustment might be of value on occasion.



The choice between balanced and SE depends on the design of the amp, if it was designed to be used balanced then that is where the amp will perform best, and then there are amps like the Liquid Glass and a few others that I've heard that perform the same in balanced or SE.

I wouldn't spend the money just to get a balanced cable for the EL-8 since its very easy to drive and doesn't really benefit from running them balanced IMO based on my time with the Liquid Glass and Carbon, both of which can be used balanced or SE.  I did build a cable for my EL-8 and originally had a XLR connector so that I could try them balanced on the two amps previously mentioned but upon finding no difference I removed the XLR jack and went with a 1/4" jack.


----------



## sonic2911

if SE is only the way you want, so NFB11 is win all the way...salty but true


----------



## alpovs

sonic2911 said:


> Get Jot as an amp is a solid choice, no complaints at all but its DAC is suck/trash/cancer...be ware before order. get an external DAC like Modi 2 uber will save you.


But Jot's DAC uses exactly the same chip as Modi 2 Uber (and Modi 2) except Jot's DAC is fully balanced, i.e., can only be better, not worse. Why do you think that Jot's DAC is worse than Modi 2 Uber? It makes no sense.


----------



## sonic2911

alpovs said:


> But Jot's DAC uses exactly the same chip as Modi 2 Uber (and Modi 2) except Jot's DAC is fully balanced, i.e., can only be better, not worse. Why do you think that Jot's DAC is worse than Modi 2 Uber? It makes no sense.


Technically it's better, but in real life, for most pc, not perfect as modi 2 uber, because of most graphic cards nowadays have coil whine, even the top-end gtx 1080 ti. If Schiit design the Jot again, DAC use full power from external adapter...I would say it's best bang for the buck!!!


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## cskippy

alpovs said:


> But Jot's DAC uses exactly the same chip as Modi 2 Uber (and Modi 2) except Jot's DAC is fully balanced, i.e., can only be better, not worse. Why do you think that Jot's DAC is worse than Modi 2 Uber? It makes no sense.


This is advice that will suite you for buying anything....

It comes down to the implementation.  

I'll give you a few analogies.  A beater Honda Civic with broken down suspension and beaten to hell engine/transmission has the exact same four rims/tires as a Ferrari.  The Ferrari will beat the Civic every time in any performance metric.  The Teac NT-503 uses the same 4490 DAC chip but costs $999 compared to the Modi 2.  Is it's sound quality better?  Maybe, it comes down to the implementation and quality of supporting components.


----------



## rkw (Jul 4, 2017)

sonic2911 said:


> Technically it's better, but in real life, for most pc, not perfect as modi 2 uber, because of most graphic cards nowadays have coil whine, even the top-end gtx 1080 ti. If Schiit design the Jot again, DAC use full power from external adapter...I would say it's best bang for the buck!!!


I don't get it. What do graphics cards have anything to do with it? Isn't the Jot DAC powered by the Jot's internal power supply?

But more to the point — what differences do _you_ hear between the Jot DAC and Modi 2 Uber?


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## Topspin70 (Jul 4, 2017)

There's quite a few mention of cans that have good synergy with the Jot. Just like to share, from my current experience, that the ATH-R70x is certainly one of them. Its supremely natural tone goes really well with the amp. In turn, the Jot is the perfect amp to bring out just how revealing, authoritative and musical the cans can be. Worth an audition for those of you on the look out for a new pair of cans.


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## alpovs

cskippy said:


> This is advice that will suite you for buying anything....
> 
> It comes down to the implementation.
> 
> I'll give you a few analogies.  A beater Honda Civic with broken down suspension and beaten to hell engine/transmission has the exact same four rims/tires as a Ferrari.  The Ferrari will beat the Civic every time in any performance metric.  The Teac NT-503 uses the same 4490 DAC chip but costs $999 compared to the Modi 2.  Is it's sound quality better?  Maybe, it comes down to the implementation and quality of supporting components.


I am well aware of this. Why do you think the same company would implement essentially the same DAC differently? It wouldn't make sense. The same USB receiver chip, the same DAC chip. One is balanced of course, the other is not. If I were them I would implement them the same way. I am with rkw here. What difference if any do people hear between the Jot with builtin DAC and the Modi 2 Uber? I bet nobody has this combo.


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## jimmers

cskippy said:


> ...I'll give you a few analogies ...


They are not really analogies are they?


----------



## sonic2911

rkw said:


> I don't get it. What do graphics cards have anything to do with it? Isn't the Jot DAC powered by the Jot's internal power supply?
> 
> But more to the point — what differences do _you_ hear between the Jot DAC and Modi 2 Uber?


The amp side is powered by external source, but the DAC draw power from PC, through USB


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## cskippy

jimmers said:


> They are not really analogies are they?


Ehh, I don't know, I suck at writing.  The point is, there is a lot more that goes into a DAC than the chip itself.  Power supply and clean power delivery are very important to good sound.  Quality resistors, capacitors, and transistors all have a cost, as well as proper elegant designs, think Nelson Pass First Watt amps.


----------



## joeexp (Jul 5, 2017)

DavidA said:


> The choice between balanced and SE depends on the design of the amp, if it was designed to be used balanced then that is where the amp will perform best, and then there are amps like the Liquid Glass and a few others that I've heard that perform the same in balanced or SE.
> 
> I wouldn't spend the money just to get a balanced cable for the EL-8 since its very easy to drive and doesn't really benefit from running them balanced IMO based on my time with the Liquid Glass and Carbon, both of which can be used balanced or SE.  I did build a cable for my EL-8 and originally had a XLR connector so that I could try them balanced on the two amps previously mentioned but upon finding no difference I removed the XLR jack and went with a 1/4" jack.



All Headphones connected to the JOT, will sound better using a balanced cable. Full Stop.
So get your soldering irons out!


----------



## EtRec

Hello,
  I'm a satisfied owner of the Jot with internal DAC ( I tried the Bitfrost Multibit and sent it back) . Using my Audioquest Nightowl Carbon headphones through a 4pin XLR balanced cable (and the Jot as pre-amp to my Audioengine N22 AMP). Love the combo. I'm very curious to hear what  tubes would sound like in the setup. Is there a reasonably priced way to introduce tubes to the mix? Thanks


----------



## BubbaJay

I have the small Schiit stack plus which is what I like to call the Magni 2 when paired with the Mimby, but I'm looking at getting a new amp and the Jot is on my short list.  My main headphone is the Elear but I also use a Nighthawk a fair bit so I was wondering how they pair with the Jot?  I'd like to know how they sound single ended as well as balanced and if there really is a significant difference in SQ between the 2?  I'd get just the amp because I don't need a dac and from everything I've seen the $399 is worth it for just the amp, but I'd still like to hear from anyone that uses the Elear with it.


----------



## supervisor

just finally got some balanced cables for my headphones (LCD-2 and SE846) and wondering if I need to use the balanced XLR input to utilize the balanced output properly? or will SE input still yield same result?

i noticed my desktop monitors at work (Emotiva Airmotiv 5s) have balanced inputs as well--any benefit to using the balance pre-amp out of the Jotunheim? still wish the Jot muted the pre-amps when headphones are plugged in! Asgard 2 still better in this regard.


----------



## ToTo Man

supervisor said:


> just finally got some balanced cables for my headphones (LCD-2 and SE846) and wondering if I need to use the balanced XLR input to utilize the balanced output properly? or will SE input still yield same result?
> 
> i noticed my desktop monitors at work (Emotiva Airmotiv 5s) have balanced inputs as well--any benefit to using the balance pre-amp out of the Jotunheim? still wish the Jot muted the pre-amps when headphones are plugged in! Asgard 2 still better in this regard.



Yes you'll still benefit from Jot's balanced drive if using a single-ended source, but you'll increase the benefit further by using a balanced source.


----------



## majo123

I too am just about to buy a jot but am confused on the dac, I have read that the dac card in the jot is rubbish and also that it's good , I have also read that the modi multibit is better , also I read that there is not a lot of difference in sound quality from the modi multibit to the bifrost multibit when pairing with the jot.
All 3 options are within my range but just confused with conflicting views,  so much difference of opinion on these dacs.
Any input welcome.


----------



## rkw

majo123 said:


> I too am just about to buy a jot but am confused on the dac, I have read that the dac card in the jot is rubbish and also that it's good , I have also read that the modi multibit is better , also I read that there is not a lot of difference in sound quality from the modi multibit to the bifrost multibit when pairing with the jot.
> All 3 options are within my range but just confused with conflicting views,  so much difference of opinion on these dacs.
> Any input welcome.


The Modi is available in 3 versions, in increasing price and performance: Modi, Modi Uber, and Modi Multibit
The Jot DAC is essentially a balanced version of the base Modi, so it is equivalent to the lowest standalone DAC in Schiit's product line. You can get improvements by going up the product line.

Jot DAC is what I currently use and I find that it sounds very good and in no way I would describe it as "rubbish". If you currently listen from your computer or phone's DAC, then the Jot DAC will almost certainly be an improvement (as would a standalone base Modi). I will upgrade to Gumby or Yggy at some point but meanwhile I enjoy listening to the Jot DAC and having a single, compact box.

I can't personally weigh in on Modi Multibit vs Bifrost Multibit, but when posted comparisons from different people show fairly consistent opinion, it is hard to ignore.


----------



## majo123

rkw said:


> The Modi is available in 3 versions, in increasing price and performance: Modi, Modi Uber, and Modi Multibit
> The Jot DAC is essentially a balanced version of the base Modi, so it is equivalent to the lowest standalone DAC in Schiit's product line. You can get improvements by going up the product line.
> 
> Jot DAC is what I currently use and I find that it sounds very good and in no way I would describe it as "rubbish". If you currently listen from your computer or phone's DAC, then the Jot DAC will almost certainly be an improvement (as would a standalone base Modi). I will upgrade to Gumby or Yggy at some point but meanwhile I enjoy listening to the Jot DAC and having a single, compact box.
> ...



Thanks for your opinions at least that's a thumbs up for the dac card , still I'm uncertain which to buy , £550 for the bifrost multibit which will just about stack with the jot, but like i said I have heard the modi multibit doesn't sound much different but obviously won't stack nicely/aesthetically but saves £250 ish.
Yes the bifrost is upgradeable but i think upgradeable isn't always the way to go because generally when the upgrade comes through there is usually something better out there, I would still buy the bifrost to pair though if i was certain it was the best option.


----------



## abirdie4me

rkw said:


> The Modi is available in 3 versions, in increasing price and performance: Modi, Modi Uber, and Modi Multibit
> The Jot DAC is essentially a balanced version of the base Modi, so it is equivalent to the lowest standalone DAC in Schiit's product line. You can get improvements by going up the product line.
> 
> Jot DAC is what I currently use and I find that it sounds very good and in no way I would describe it as "rubbish". If you currently listen from your computer or phone's DAC, then the Jot DAC will almost certainly be an improvement (as would a standalone base Modi). I will upgrade to Gumby or Yggy at some point but meanwhile I enjoy listening to the Jot DAC and having a single, compact box.
> ...



I also run the Jot w/DAC, and I'm really enjoying it. I bought a Mimby but had to send it back, the usb input had something terribly wrong with it. I did spend a couple of days running toslink from my PC into the Mimby alongside USB to the internal Jot DAC and did some A/B comparisons. For me, there just wasn't much difference between the Mimby and the internal Jot DAC, although I don't have very experienced ears and only gave the Mimby about 3 days to burn in. I did the comparisons with my Focal Elears.

That said, I think I'm going to save up for the Gumby and give that a try with the Jot. Hopefully I can find a good deal on a used one, as $1300 is steep for a new audiophile who until recently never owned audio equipment worth more than $100!


----------



## Topspin70

supervisor said:


> just finally got some balanced cables for my headphones (LCD-2 and SE846) and wondering if I need to use the balanced XLR input to utilize the balanced output properly? or will SE input still yield same result?
> 
> i noticed my desktop monitors at work (Emotiva Airmotiv 5s) have balanced inputs as well--any benefit to using the balance pre-amp out of the Jotunheim? still wish the Jot muted the pre-amps when headphones are plugged in! Asgard 2 still better in this regard.





ToTo Man said:


> Yes you'll still benefit from Jot's balanced drive if using a single-ended source, but you'll increase the benefit further by using a balanced source.



I switched to balance input and did hear some improvement, though not massive. A little more body, texture, bottom depth. But it could be because of the DAC as the guys at Schiit did say their yggy's balance output is superior to the RCAs.


----------



## majo123

abirdie4me said:


> I also run the Jot w/DAC, and I'm really enjoying it. I bought a Mimby but had to send it back, the usb input had something terribly wrong with it. I did spend a couple of days running toslink from my PC into the Mimby alongside USB to the internal Jot DAC and did some A/B comparisons. For me, there just wasn't much difference between the Mimby and the internal Jot DAC, although I don't have very experienced ears and only gave the Mimby about 3 days to burn in. I did the comparisons with my Focal Elears.
> 
> That said, I think I'm going to save up for the Gumby and give that a try with the Jot. Hopefully I can find a good deal on a used one, as $1300 is steep for a new audiophile who until recently never owned audio equipment worth more than $100!


.this is what I wanted to hear , I read a few reviews saying thst there isn't a massive difference between the dacs.


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## majo123

I'm still thinking of buying the bifrost multibit to pair with jot though as it will more or less stack and also the potential to upgrade,  even though with anything electronic thats upgradeable im always sceptical as usually something better comes along anyway.


----------



## MWSVette

majo123 said:


> I'm still thinking of buying the bifrost multibit to pair with jot though as it will more or less stack and also the potential to upgrade,  even though with anything electronic thats upgradeable im always sceptical as usually something better comes along anyway.



For what it is worth I have the Bimby/Jot combo and am very pleased with it...


----------



## majo123

MWSVette said:


> For what it is worth I have the Bimby/Jot combo and am very pleased with it...



It's worth a lot thanks,this is probably what I will end up with all though i will just by the jot first and run my fiio x7 line out on it then in a couple of months buy the bimby.


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## Tuneslover (Jul 7, 2017)

majo123 said:


> I'm still thinking of buying the bifrost multibit to pair with jot though as it will more or less stack and also the potential to upgrade,  even though with anything electronic thats upgradeable im always sceptical as usually something better comes along anyway.




Last night I was listening to Uli Jon Roth's "The Sails of Charon" from the Scorpion's Revisited disc on my Jotunheim/Bimby/HD650 combo and I was amazed how close it sounded when I heard him play live in Toronto.  I re-listened to the same cut using my Project Ember and Lake People amps and the Jotunheim reproduced it most accurately.


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## jimmers (Jul 7, 2017)

majo123 said:


> I'm still thinking of buying the bifrost multibit to pair with jot though as it will more or less stack and also the potential to upgrade,  even though with anything electronic thats upgradeable im always sceptical as usually something better comes along anyway.


I bought a Bimby early and I was a bit miffed when the Mimby came out so much cheaper 
Then the Jot came out and I now have a nice stack and I'm glad I bought the Bimby, personally I hope there are no worthwhile upgrades coming for it, I don't want to spend any more. 
Bimby, Jot, HD650 - I'm finished 


I hope.


----------



## majo123

Tuneslover said:


> Last night I was listening to Uli Jon Roth's "The Sails of Charon" from the Scorpion's Revisited disc on my Jotunheim/Bimby combo and I was amazed how close it sounded when I heard him play live in Toronto.  I re-listened to the same cut using my Project Ember and Lake People amps and the Jotunheim reproduced it most accurately.



I was pretty much sold on the bimby jot combo in the beginning , but with all the info out there it was quite conflicting, think you can overthink in this hobby at times.
Looks like bimmby jot for me and once again thanks for your imput.


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## Topspin70 (Jul 7, 2017)

Tuneslover said:


> Last night I was listening to Uli Jon Roth's "The Sails of Charon" from the Scorpion's Revisited disc on my Jotunheim/Bimby combo and I was amazed how close it sounded when I heard him play live in Toronto.  I re-listened to the same cut using my Project Ember and Lake People amps and the Jotunheim reproduced it most accurately.



I feel the same about the Jot. It comes across very clean, precise and accurate, when compared to my other amps, namely the iCAN SE and the Taurus MK II which I had sold.

I do wonder how it compares with the Raggy? Is it close to the big brother's level of precision and accuracy, or still a far cry away?


----------



## majo123

jimmers said:


> I bought a Bimby early and I was a bit miffed when the Mimby came out so much cheaper
> Then the Jot came out and I now have a nice stack and I'm glad I bought the Bimby, personally I hope there are no worthwhile upgrades coming for it, I don't want to spend any more.
> Bimby, Jot, HD650 - I'm finished
> 
> ...


 yeah it pretty much would be my stack for a few years at least.
Thanks guys for the last few posts it has totally sold me thst im making the right decision, I can stop being undecided now. Bimby jot it is.


----------



## earnmyturns

Topspin70 said:


> I feel the same about the Jot. It comes across very clean, precise and accurate, when compared to my other amps, namely the iCAN SE and the Taurus MK II which I had sold.
> 
> I do wonder how it compares with the Raggy? Is it close to the big brother's level of precision and accuracy, or still a far cry away?


I've never heard the Raggy, but the difference between the Jot and the 3x more expensive Neurochrome HP-1 (currently my main headphone amp) is not huge. Yes, the HP-1 has deeper soundstage, better instrument separation, a more "big concert hall" sound, but the Jot does very well, and in fact it can sound a bit more intimate with some recordings.  Given the price multiplier, this a huge feat for the Jot.


----------



## wasupdog

the jot has the most clarity of any amp i've ever heard.  that being said, the rag takes it in all other areas (except price) and it's my main headphone amp.  

the jot has some edginess imo which is the main dealbreaker for me.


----------



## FLTWS

wasupdog said:


> the jot has the most clarity of any amp i've ever heard.  that being said, the rag takes it in all other areas (except price) and it's my main headphone amp.
> 
> the jot has some edginess imo which is the main dealbreaker for me.



That tends to align with my thoughts. For me the sound presentation also depends most on the recording and the transducer. My Jot makes a better pairing with my Utopia than my stock HD800 which I prefer with my MJ2 or Rag. I've always felt my Rag blends some of the best qualities of both the Jot and MJ2 but at a price dollar wise. The MJ2 with tubes and LISST's plus a Jot thrown in is less than the cost of a Rag and gives a listener a lot of varying sonic subtleties to hear (or not). But buying a pair or two (or 10 in my case) premium tubes for the MJ2 can quickly change the price comparison. 

The Rag is the least "exciting" sounding amp of the three, which makes it my HP amp of choice with the music I listen to most. My MJ2 with the right tubes can work some magic with voices as does my Jot. The difference I hear between those two (sound field and reproduction of the recording venue aside), is warm and airy versus dry and clinical. Also, the reach and control at the extremes of the frequency range is slightly different. These differences while audible are not monumental in nature and/but personal preferences and expectations will vary.

I've been having fun comparing the different amps and phones with varying house sounds of recording labels and the changing  technology of making recordings over the past 7 plus decades.


----------



## Topspin70

earnmyturns said:


> I've never heard the Raggy, but the difference between the Jot and the 3x more expensive Neurochrome HP-1 (currently my main headphone amp) is not huge. Yes, the HP-1 has deeper soundstage, better instrument separation, a more "big concert hall" sound, but the Jot does very well, and in fact it can sound a bit more intimate with some recordings.  Given the price multiplier, this a huge feat for the Jot.



That really says how good the Jot is. But I do agree with that point about the soundstage. My other amps do give a greater sense of depth. I read headphoneer's review of the Mjolnir and he felt the same way too. I wonder whether it's a Schiit thing, that they tuned their amps to bring background elements to the forefront.


----------



## Topspin70

FLTWS said:


> That tends to align with my thoughts. For me the sound presentation also depends most on the recording and the transducer. My Jot makes a better pairing with my Utopia than my stock HD800 which I prefer with my MJ2 or Rag. I've always felt my Rag blends some of the best qualities of both the Jot and MJ2 but at a price dollar wise. The MJ2 with tubes and LISST's plus a Jot thrown in is less than the cost of a Rag and gives a listener a lot of varying sonic subtleties to hear (or not). But buying a pair or two (or 10 in my case) premium tubes for the MJ2 can quickly change the price comparison.
> 
> The Rag is the least "exciting" sounding amp of the three, which makes it my HP amp of choice with the music I listen to most. My MJ2 with the right tubes can work some magic with voices as does my Jot. The difference I hear between those two (sound field and reproduction of the recording venue aside), is warm and airy versus dry and clinical. Also, the reach and control at the extremes of the frequency range is slightly different. These differences while audible are not monumental in nature and/but personal preferences and expectations will vary.
> 
> I've been having fun comparing the different amps and phones with varying house sounds of recording labels and the changing  technology of making recordings over the past 7 plus decades.



That's quite a range of amps you have at your disposal to choose from. I'm actually impressed that you bought the Jot despite having the Rag and the MJ2. 

Any thoughts about their soundstage depth? Are they pretty much the same from one 'sibling' to another, or the Jot appears to have the shallowest?


----------



## FLTWS (Jul 8, 2017)

Topspin70 said:


> That's quite a range of amps you have at your disposal to choose from. I'm actually impressed that you bought the Jot despite having the Rag and the MJ2.
> 
> Any thoughts about their soundstage depth? Are they pretty much the same from one 'sibling' to another, or the Jot appears to have the shallowest?



For me personally, at $400US I felt the Jot was just too cost effective to pass on given the initial impressions of posters. Plus with 15 days on trial basis I felt if it started barking right out of the box I could always return it. It also gave me a 5th option to evaluate as I get back into listening to my music with a more critical ear and determine what qualities in HP's and current electronics get me closer to reproducing the sound of an orchestra in a concert hall, which is my goal, and where I have had extensive exposure over the decades.

I find the Jot does not reproduce that sense of depth of the sound field to the same extent the MJ2 and Rag can, depending on the recording, and with my HP stable. The Jot brings things in closer with a clear, slightly prominent midrange, but it does maintains control and reaches better into the deep bass and upper highs (well, as high as my ears go at my age) than my MJ2. The MJ2 can be a little soft at the extremes, tube dependent to some extent, but not by much, and it can reveal some of the air of the acoustic venue the recording was made in providing a better illusion of depth while maintaining midrange presence. For all I know all these subtle sound characteristics I listen for are various frequency distortions and phase inaccuracies adding up for the better or for the worse to an end result that's compelling and makes me want to listen. With speakers there is always room interactions to deal with, but with headphones it's the loss of the timing differences from each channel to the opposite ear. HP's do eliminate the room interactions simplifying one aspect of the overall listening experience. But then how important is a certain volume of air in the equation of generating a sound field environment that's believable with acoustic instruments? As always, it's about trade-offs and compromises.      

I was primarily a two channel in-room speaker listener from 1970 until 2004 when I left hi-end audio (due to retirement and downsizing) and focused on home theater. I only returned to hi-end with HP's (due to space limitations) in Jan of 2016. My experience tells me that the spatial characteristics discussed in conjunction with amps (and the other boxes and wires in the chain) are easier for me to hear with in-room speakers. When making comparisons with the headphones I've auditioned in home, including almost all the TOTL contenders over the past year, HP's just don't compare well in reproducing spatial cues and I'm referring here to depth and height of the sound field, not the imaging left to right, so I've  been adjusting my expectations accordingly for HP's since I started with this project.

One final note: while I have a fair amount of concert hall listening experience I have never been in a recording studio which could make my listening priorities different from those of others.


----------



## makne (Jul 8, 2017)

Jotunheim + mimby vs Audio-gd NFB-28 or Marantz HD-DAC1? Have anyone compared these?


----------



## Topspin70

FLTWS said:


> For me personally, at $400US I felt the Jot was just too cost effective to pass on given the initial impressions of posters. Plus with 15 days on trial basis I felt if it started barking right out of the box I could always return it. It also gave me a 5th option to evaluate as I get back into listening to my music with a more critical ear and determine what qualities in HP's and current electronics get me closer to reproducing the sound of an orchestra in a concert hall, which is my goal, and where I have had extensive exposure over the decades.
> 
> I find the Jot does not reproduce that sense of depth of the sound field to the same extent the MJ2 and Rag can, depending on the recording, and with my HP stable. The Jot brings things in closer with a clear, slightly prominent midrange, but it does maintains control and reaches better into the deep bass and upper highs (well, as high as my ears go at my age) than my MJ2. The MJ2 can be a little soft at the extremes, tube dependent to some extent, but not by much, and it can reveal some of the air of the acoustic venue the recording was made in providing a better illusion of depth while maintaining midrange presence. For all I know all these subtle sound characteristics I listen for are various frequency distortions and phase inaccuracies adding up for the better or for the worse to an end result that's compelling and makes me want to listen. With speakers there is always room interactions to deal with, but with headphones it's the loss of the timing differences from each channel to the opposite ear. HP's do eliminate the room interactions simplifying one aspect of the overall listening experience. But then how important is a certain volume of air in the equation of generating a sound field environment that's believable with acoustic instruments? As always, it's about trade-offs and compromises.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the insightful feedback. You certainly nailed that point about gear that can project a good sense of air give that impression of depth and space. And that it's more apparent with speaker set-ups inside our physical living spaces. 

After hearing your point, I pulled out my HD800S and did a more critical A/B between the Jot and my ifi stack. I realise that the 'air' coming through the Jot varied noticeably with connections: least when I go unbalance in/out, more when I go balance in/unbalance out, most when I go full balance. The last comes closest to the spatial impression that I hear from the ifi stack, in fact it's much more dynamic, cleaner, with no warm coloration. Gain-wise, I noticed that low setting gives better, clearer separation with darker background between instruments. This is the case for the ifi stack too. Throughout the comparisons, the soundstage of the Jot is definitely more up close, or intimate, so must have contributed significantly to my initial feeling of lesser depth. But the instrumental layers from front to back are distinctly there and not at all flattened together depth-wise. So thanks, I think you helped me answer my own question: it's not that the Jot has less depth, it's just nearer (as you have also mentioned).

Still, if you have a chance to do a direct A/B between the Jot and the Rag, like you had with the MJ2, I'd be all ears. I'm really liking the Jot so I'm curious how much more I will like the Rag (ignoring the price tag as much as I can).

Incidentally, during comparison, I noticed that the balance in/SE out configuration at low gain sounded far more smooth and treble-tame than I initially remembered it. The amp seemed to have settled down considerably after a week of playing. The config has a teeny less texture and slam than going full balance but definitely shows that the Jot isn't just that harsh, treble-glaring amp that many people have been experiencing. It comes down to the whole chain, what and how it's hooked up to.


----------



## alpovs

Topspin70 said:


> Throughout the comparisons, the soundstage of the Jot is definitely more up close, or intimate, so must have contributed significantly to my initial feeling of lesser depth. But the instrumental layers from front to back are distinctly there and not at all flattened together depth-wise. So thanks, I think you helped me answer my own question: it's not that the Jot has less depth, it's just nearer (as you have also mentioned).


Wouldn't the soundstage openness be defined by the spec parameter called "crosstalk"? The perception of depth in sound comes from the differences in the left and right channels of a stereo recording. Crosstalk, as far as I understand it, defines, or rather is a measure of, how much left and right channels mix while passing through the amp. So, Jot's crosstalk is -70dB, Mjolnir 2's -75dB, Ragnarok's -80dB (those are negative numbers). Ragnarok's crosstalk is the lowest, so I would expect people to say that its soundstage is wider and more open. I haven't checked other reviews, I wonder if it's correct.


----------



## Topspin70

alpovs said:


> Wouldn't the soundstage openness be defined by the spec parameter called "crosstalk"? The perception of depth in sound comes from the differences in the left and right channels of a stereo recording. Crosstalk, as far as I understand it, defines, or rather is a measure of, how much left and right channels mix while passing through the amp. So, Jot's crosstalk is -70dB, Mjolnir 2's -75dB, Ragnarok's -80dB (those are negative numbers). Ragnarok's crosstalk is the lowest, so I would expect people to say that its soundstage is wider and more open. I haven't checked other reviews, I wonder if it's correct.



Someone more technically savvy might be able to answer that. My investigation was with regards to depth, not width of soundstage. I don't feel the Jot lacks width and openness at all, but I would imagine the Rag performs even better being the flagship amp, which those crosstalk figures might suggest.


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## FLTWS (Jul 10, 2017)

RE: Jot vs Rag and Sound Fields

Many HP related posts here at Head-Fi mentioning the sound field seem directed at discussing stage width and stability of imaging. Few discuss the depth aspects and it's possible this is just not as important with non classical genres of music recorded in small specialized studios as opposed to the large spaces of concert halls. Ideally a sound field should be like a holograph; if it was visually perceivable it should define a 3D space with width, height, and depth components. Over the years I’ve heard and owned speakers that throw a huge sound field with stable imaging such that you could point to specific spots and sense the sound of an instrument or group of instruments halfway or all the way at the back of the stage within the sound space. This illusion is very recording dependent. I don’t hear this type of specificity in the concert hall, sounds blend much more and the point to a spot business tends to fall apart. However, somehow (and maybe it’s a result of phase and timing cues) my ears always get the sense, when I go live, that the sounds coming from the violins and cellos are at the front, woodwinds behind them, and horns and percussion behind them, a nebulous layering type of effect from front to back, even with my eyes closed and the farther from the stage the more noticeable it can be. The larger physical space of the concert hall with the longer reflection times may result in this blending effect. Home listening rooms are like phone booths with all those early reflections, but if a recording and the reproducing chain can generate this faux depth with specificity it helps me to suspend belief that I’m in a tiny room and have a full size orchestra in front of me adding to my enjoyment of the in-home listening experience. I'm headphones only at this point, wrestling with how to squeeze a couple boxes with cones or stats into my limited space.

A generalization I tend to find holds true with reproduced sound, be it headphones or speakers; if the recording and chain all the way to the transducer is relatively flat in frequency response through the crucial midrange and lower highs, this sound field with a depth component will be as large and specific front to back as the recording allows for. Elevate those frequency ranges slightly and the front to back component gets squashed and comes forward. Recess that frequency range slightly and it expands from front to back but loses the “it sounds like I could reach out and touch it” element.

All of the foregoing is related to my concert hall and in home listening experience and with orchestral recordings with headphones and speakers. None of it is original to me. Decades ago I was introduced to all these concepts through the likes of J.Gordon Holt, Harry Pearson, and others. I make no claim to guru-hood, to having better ears than others, or a better understanding of the art and science of music reproduction. These are just my observations in conjunction with what I learned from others as applied to my "live" and "canned" listening experiences.

Anyway, some random musings on my Schiit boxes, MJ2 vs Rag vs Jot, as I revisited the A/B/C arena with regard to the sound stage once again over this past weekend. I'm not making any recommendations on which I think is best, just my thoughts on my 3 headphone amps.

If Schiit has a house sound tailored to appeal to different categories of listeners I don’t hear it. These 3 are all basically neutral but with minor deviations from each other, and those differences are mole hills and not mountains and it took me a lot of listening hours to reach my conclusions, which will not necessarily be anyone else's conclusions. The sound field generated with the HP’s I used (HD800 and Utopia) in conjunction with these amps made the differences noticeable. Comparing the Utopia and HD800 on the Rag made for some very interesting listening sessions, but that’s another story.

Turning to the MJ2 first you’d think the tubes would make a big difference. Every time I fire up mine up I’m surprised at how un-tube-like it is. But then I do associate typical old school tube type sound with output transformers in power amps, not necessarily with small signal tubes or hybrid amps like the MJ2. I guess a designer could play with distortion parameters to make for a more tube-like sound in an OTL or SS pre or power amp, but I don’t hear what I remember as typical tube-y coloration's here, just a softening of details at the extreme top and bottom of the frequency range in the MJ2 coupled with a beautiful sounding midrange. It really shines with my HD800.

I also find the MJ2 is like a chameleon. Roll different tube pairs with LISST’s and get a lot of subtle variety in the sound. Picking a winner on what tubes to stay with has become as difficult for me as answering the question “What’s your favorite color” before crossing the Bridge of Death.

As regards the Rag, when I used the word “unexciting” in an earlier post in reference to my Rag I didn’t mean it in a negative way.  My Rag gives me the sense that the sound stage perspective and frequency balance is neutral with respect to distance from the players or groups of players and the air between the players and of the hall and how the instruments sound tonally. It may sound a bit laid back and softer on top by comparison with the Jot which strikes me as a bit forward and brighter with a more compact sound stage from front to back and I don't hear the "air" I sometimes get with the MJ2 and Rag. I get the sense of a bigger picture on the orchestra with my Rag which works better with the music I listen to most and depending on the recording comes closer to what I experience live from a point in the audience as opposed to on (or hanging over) the stage which is a tendency of overly miked recordings. Going from the Jot to the Rag could initially be like going from "exciting" to "unexciting" but over time the Rag just gets more "real" for my listening preferences, lack of a better explanation.

Many of the early Jot posters raved about the sound of vocals and I think it speaks to the Jot’s midrange clarity and ability to make voices “pop” sounding very “there” and I do like my Rock and Jazz music on the Jot, very energizing.  Going from the Jot to the Rag it’s conceivable that the Rag could come off as less squeaky clean in its presentation of the midrange with less “pop” to vocals, and I remember a comment or two that the Rag might be  veiled in comparison to the Jot (which I don’t hear). I also sense the Rag delivers with a greater sense of ease, it’s more relaxed and its sound field is bigger than the Jot’s in depth regardless of whether I use SE or Balanced connections The Rag provides me with what I prefer in a complete sound presentation. But, I like the variety of having the additional amps (especially the MJ2) just as I like having multiple headphones at my disposal.

I think all 3 of my Schiit amps would measure almost identically for practical purposes and in most aspects, and at these vanishing levels of distortion I wouldn’t attribute any perceived subjective differences as discernible from looking at those measurements. I’ve owned them for; (MJ2 – 15 months, Rag – 11 months, Jot - 10 months).

Comparing my 3 Schiit amps with HP’s (Mostly the HD800 and Utopia) over the past year turned out to be a lot more difficult than I ever imagined because I found matching volume levels in open air even with a decent sound level meter notoriously difficult but a must as it affects so many sound characteristics. I also find it much easier to fine tune the rotary volume pots on the MJ2 and Jot than with the Rags attenuator so I always had to set the Rag volume first and then dial the MJ2 and Jot in with the meter and test tone using the Rag as the reference level, before making listening comparisons. With the Rags attenuator of 64 steps of 1.2 db each it’s fairly easy to hear the difference in sound level between steps even at the lowest gain setting. This tells me that a difference of only 2 db between the 3 units might change my perception and is why if Schiit ever offer an upgrade to 128 steps for the Rag I’ll take advantage of it. Given that there is no standardization with recording levels I always end up with different volume settings every time I put on a different CD to get the sound to what I feel is appropriate for the type of music and how and where the recording was made. So I would always need to reset the volumes all over again. Too high a volume level and the music can get shout-y and/or distorted, too low and it get washed out sounding lacking presence and body. And louder always sounds closer. I also find there is a relatively small range of volume or a sweet spot in volume setting for any given recording where it comes to life as realistically sounding as the recording is capable of allowing it to be.

As far as moving up (?) to a Rag, it’s not 4+ times better in any aspect. Can you benefit or make use of the additional inputs/outputs? Do the speaker taps matter to you? The third gain option? They certainly didn’t to me but I handled it like I did my purchase of the Yggy, why start at the bottom and work my way up. I was already sold on the MJ2 for my tube option and it seemed to be Schiit’s statement amp with its tube/FET topology in a headphone amp. I then decided to just go straight for their SS statement amp for headphones. I should also mention that the Rag generates significantly more heat than the Jot and will need more breathing space along with its larger footprint. But, I still keep coming back to the Rag for my music of choice most of the time and fire up the MJ2 when I’m feeling decadent.

Satisfaction of ownership can play into all this as well. A Hyundai or Kia will move me from point A to point B very cost effectively, but I want, and am willing to pay for, all the performance, comfort, and bling features that come from the more upscale car makers. The Rag comes with most every option I can think of (except a remote control, power switch on the front, VU meters, and a dimmer for its LED, if such things matter to you).

With regards to upgrading; I subscribe to all the Schiit related threads here at Head-Fi and it seems to me that at least 90% of all the posts along the lines of “I got a problem with the sound” have to do with downloaded music content and playback from PC’s over USB, HDMI, etc. D/L'd music content also seems to be the format of choice among posters. These issues could be various noise issues to no sound, or something else. If I were thinking of upgrading my existing signal chain I would assess my front end and conclude whether or not I can improve it within my budget to get the best quality signal out of the original source, be it CD or D/L content, before it gets to the DAC. If I were already satisfied with the front end I would next focus on the transducer, followed by the DACs/preamps/amps, and lastly, the connecting wires. Nothing new here, but that’s how I'd approach the process and spend my money if I already had a complete rig and was looking to “improve” it.

Even with my CD player and DAC there are things like jitter, clocks, algorithms, bits, filters, and lots of other pieces parts and details that are beyond the scope of my knowledge but that need to be addressed and done right. Based on my exposure to Yggy I trust in Mike get those things right for me, so I don't have to think about them, LOL!

The last thought I want to leave you with (and I’ve said it before), “The harder I listen, the less I hear” All this A vs B vs C stuff is interesting and fun but it is also time consuming, tedious, tiring, and frustratingly difficult at times. As a lifelong audiophile I’ve always found that as time passes with exposure to some new piece of gear I will eventually reach a point where I stop listening to the equipment, like a dog on point, in any structured way.  Preconceived expectations and biases will gradually fade into the background. I will find myself focused more on the music; the sound of the individual notes, the body sound of the instruments, the various textures, musical structures, clarity of inner detailing, the sound of the hall, and how it was all captured by the microphones and balanced in the final mix. That’s when I find the truth of the sound for me.

As always, trust your own ears.


----------



## makne

FLTWS said:


> RE: Jot vs Rag and Sound Fields
> 
> Many HP related posts here at Head-Fi mentioning the sound field seem directed at discussing stage width and stability of imaging. Few discuss the depth aspects and it's possible this is just not as important with non classical genres of music recorded in small specialized studios as opposed to the large spaces of concert halls. Ideally a sound field should be like a holograph; if it was visually perceivable it should define a 3D space with width, height, and depth components. Over the years I’ve heard and owned speakers that throw a huge sound field with stable imaging such that you could point to specific spots and sense the sound of an instrument or group of instruments halfway or all the way at the back of the stage within the sound space. This illusion is very recording dependent. I don’t hear this type of specificity in the concert hall, sounds blend much more and the point to a spot business tends to fall apart. However, somehow (and maybe it’s a result of phase and timing cues) my ears always get the sense, when I go live, that the sounds coming from the violins and cellos are at the front, woodwinds behind them, and horns and percussion behind them, a nebulous layering type of effect from front to back, even with my eyes closed and the farther from the stage the more noticeable it can be. The larger physical space of the concert hall with the longer reflection times may result in this blending effect. Home listening rooms are like phone booths with all those early reflections, but if a recording and the reproducing chain can generate this faux depth with specificity it helps me to suspend belief that I’m in a tiny room and have a full size orchestra in front of me adding to my enjoyment of the in-home listening experience. I'm headphones only at this point, wrestling with how to squeeze a couple boxes with cones or stats into my limited space.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for this post, very grateful. So much experience and good writing here. People like you are a great help for young, unexperienced people like myself.


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## jimmers

FLTWS said:


> “The harder I listen, the less I hear” All this A vs B vs C stuff is interesting and fun but it is also time consuming, tedious, tiring, and frustratingly difficult at times...



Couldn't agree more. 
Thank you for listening hard for us.


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## Topspin70

FLTWS said:


> RE: Jot vs Rag and Sound Fields
> 
> Many HP related posts here at Head-Fi mentioning the sound field seem directed at discussing stage width and stability of imaging. Few discuss the depth aspects and it's possible this is just not as important with non classical genres of music recorded in small specialized studios as opposed to the large spaces of concert halls. Ideally a sound field should be like a holograph; if it was visually perceivable it should define a 3D space with width, height, and depth components. Over the years I’ve heard and owned speakers that throw a huge sound field with stable imaging such that you could point to specific spots and sense the sound of an instrument or group of instruments halfway or all the way at the back of the stage within the sound space. This illusion is very recording dependent. I don’t hear this type of specificity in the concert hall, sounds blend much more and the point to a spot business tends to fall apart. However, somehow (and maybe it’s a result of phase and timing cues) my ears always get the sense, when I go live, that the sounds coming from the violins and cellos are at the front, woodwinds behind them, and horns and percussion behind them, a nebulous layering type of effect from front to back, even with my eyes closed and the farther from the stage the more noticeable it can be. The larger physical space of the concert hall with the longer reflection times may result in this blending effect. Home listening rooms are like phone booths with all those early reflections, but if a recording and the reproducing chain can generate this faux depth with specificity it helps me to suspend belief that I’m in a tiny room and have a full size orchestra in front of me adding to my enjoyment of the in-home listening experience. I'm headphones only at this point, wrestling with how to squeeze a couple boxes with cones or stats into my limited space.
> 
> ...



Spectacular comparison. Very insightful. Thank you for sharing this.


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## makne

Does anyone here have experience with the original Chord Hugo?
I am able to get the Hugo for 700$ if I act quickly, or I could buy a new Jot for 400$ and use with my Mimby. I would prefer to hold on to my money for a little longer, but I can buy now if I have to. So my question is: Is the Hugo a big upgrade from the Jot+Mimby, so much that it's worth the extra 200$ and have to buy now? The portability isn't a big deal to me, so I'm thinking purely from a sound quality perspective.


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## cskippy

I've heard CHord products are overrated.  But that's just what I've read.  I know that with all the taps there is a slight audio delay, which doesn't matter for listening to music but could potently bother you if you're watching video or recording audio.  Mimby and Jot are a great complement to each other.  I use Jot with my HE-6 and sold my Liquid Carbon.  Jot is pretty damn close to my 250W power amp as well.  Plus you can save some money.


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## supervisor

cskippy said:


> I've heard CHord products are overrated.  But that's just what I've read.  I know that with all the taps there is a slight audio delay, which doesn't matter for listening to music but could potently bother you if you're watching video or recording audio.  Mimby and Jot are a great complement to each other.  I use Jot with my HE-6 and sold my Liquid Carbon.  Jot is pretty damn close to my 250W power amp as well.  Plus you can save some money.



absolutely love Chord's products, but 100% agree with you--Mimby + Jot is an potent and powerful combination. it's what I use at work. very strong.


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## maxh22

makne said:


> Does anyone here have experience with the original Chord Hugo?
> I am able to get the Hugo for 700$ if I act quickly, or I could buy a new Jot for 400$ and use with my Mimby. I would prefer to hold on to my money for a little longer, but I can buy now if I have to. So my question is: Is the Hugo a big upgrade from the Jot+Mimby, so much that it's worth the extra 200$ and have to buy now? The portability isn't a big deal to me, so I'm thinking purely from a sound quality perspective.



For $700 it's a great buy, I paid about $1,000 when I had mine several months ago, if you don't like it you could get your money back easy.


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## makne

maxh22 said:


> For $700 it's a great buy, I paid about $1,000 when I had mine several months ago, if you don't like it you could get your money back easy.


Thing is, in Norway the audiophile used market isn't very big, so might not be as easy to resell as it seems. Therefore it's much more of a hassle to buy the Hugo to possibly sell it, and to sell my mimby. But if it's a big SQ upgrade over the Jot+mimby, I will pull the trigger on the Hugo.


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## makne

supervisor said:


> absolutely love Chord's products, but 100% agree with you--Mimby + Jot is an potent and powerful combination. it's what I use at work. very strong.


Would you care to post (or PM me) some impressions on Hugo vs Jot+mimby then, if you have? Would be greatly appreciated.


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## supervisor

makne said:


> Would you care to post (or PM me) some impressions on Hugo vs Jot+mimby then, if you have? Would be greatly appreciated.



only have Mojo until my Hugo 2 arrives Monday, will get back to you...


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## makne (Jul 13, 2017)

The funny thing is that in the Hugo thread, it seems like a lot of people are using the Hugo as a dac for a Liquid Carbon, and thereby implying that the LC is superior to the Hugo's headphone output. Comparisons I've read there are a leaning a little towards the LC too, with slightly superior quality and more power, and a little less clarity in some reports.

Meanwhile in the Jot thread here, it seems like the majority of comparisons are either "they're different but same quality" or leaning towards the Jot. Which would imply that Jot>LC>Hugo. BUT then again, others compare the Jot to the Mojo, which is sure to be inferior to the Hugo... 
And amazingly enough, a "jotunheim" or "Jot" search in the Hugo thread comes back with ZERO results... This research thing ain't easy.


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## supervisor

i can safely say i prefer Mimby paired with Jot than Mojo paired with Jot.

it's less warm, and the music *cracks* (no one else uses this term but this is the adjective i hear) with more dynamics and what i hear as *wider soundstage*

i'm not used to posting impressions so just trying to describe best I can.


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## makne

supervisor said:


> i can safely say i prefer Mimby paired with Jot than Mojo paired with Jot.
> 
> it's less warm, and the music *cracks* (no one else uses this term but this is the adjective i hear) with more dynamics and what i hear as *wider soundstage*
> 
> i'm not used to posting impressions so just trying to describe best I can.


Well anything is better than nothing, and I understand what you're saying.


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## Topspin70

Sounds like it's the basic difference between warm/smooth gear and neutral/dynamic gear. The former being what I had preferred for a long time, and the latter being what I have come to appreciate in recent months.


----------



## DavidA

makne said:


> Does anyone here have experience with the original Chord Hugo?
> I am able to get the Hugo for 700$ if I act quickly, or I could buy a new Jot for 400$ and use with my Mimby. I would prefer to hold on to my money for a little longer, but I can buy now if I have to. So my question is: Is the Hugo a big upgrade from the Jot+Mimby, so much that it's worth the extra 200$ and have to buy now? The portability isn't a big deal to me, so I'm thinking purely from a sound quality perspective.



From my experience with a friends Hugo, $700 is a great deal and one that I would take over the Mimby/Jot combo even if the Hugo was $1400 that my friend got his for.  The Hugo was one of the few amps that paired well with a HD800, T1 and HE560.  FWIW I compared my friends Hugo with my Bimby, BH Crack (upgraded caps and tubes) & Lyr2 (Telefunken CCa & Siemens CCa tubes)


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## earnmyturns

Topspin70 said:


> Sounds like it's the basic difference between warm/smooth gear and neutral/dynamic gear. The former being what I had preferred for a long time, and the latter being what I have come to appreciate in recent months.


I listen to a lot of live music (jazz and classical), and "neutral/dynamic" comes a lot closer to that experience than "warm/smooth." That's why I sold my Liquid Carbon.


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## Topspin70

earnmyturns said:


> I listen to a lot of live music (jazz and classical), and "neutral/dynamic" comes a lot closer to that experience than "warm/smooth." That's why I sold my Liquid Carbon.



Absolutely. Warmth is ultimately a coloration, and while it's fine to tune gear that way for listening pleasure, it clearly isn't letting us hear the real thing. 

I have to say that for a long time I had confused neutral/dynamic with thin/harsh/analytical, probably due to my past experience with Cyrus and Naim products. That's obviously not the case as I have come to realise. Neutral after all means that middle spot between dark and bright, not an extreme. (Duh me!)


----------



## joeexp

DavidA said:


> From my experience with a friends Hugo, $700 is a great deal and one that I would take over the Mimby/Jot combo even if the Hugo was $1400 that my friend got his for.  The Hugo was one of the few amps that paired well with a HD800, T1 and HE560.  FWIW I compared my friends Hugo with my Bimby, BH Crack (upgraded caps and tubes) & Lyr2 (Telefunken CCa & Siemens CCa tubes)



The Hugo never paired well with the HD800s. In fact the Hugo isn't able to drive any full-size heaphones properly. That has been established a long time ago.


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## DavidA

joeexp said:


> The Hugo never paired well with the HD800s. In fact the Hugo isn't able to drive any full-size heaphones properly. That has been established a long time ago.


I guess l and most of my friends like the HD800, HE560 and T1 "not properly" driven


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## joeexp

Your prerogative.


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## alpovs

makne said:


> The funny thing is that in the Hugo thread, it seems like a lot of people are using the Hugo as a dac for a Liquid Carbon, and thereby implying that the LC is superior to the Hugo's headphone output. Comparisons I've read there are a leaning a little towards the LC too, with slightly superior quality and more power, and a little less clarity in some reports.
> 
> Meanwhile in the Jot thread here, it seems like the majority of comparisons are either "they're different but same quality" or leaning towards the Jot. Which would imply that Jot>LC>Hugo. BUT then again, others compare the Jot to the Mojo, which is sure to be inferior to the Hugo...
> And amazingly enough, a "jotunheim" or "Jot" search in the Hugo thread comes back with ZERO results... This research thing ain't easy.


I learned that on audiophile forums there are mostly conflicting opinions. Just like you described. Some people like "something", others like the opposite to that "something". Of course, there is consensus on certain obvious things like the DAC of a Realtek PC sound card is worse than Schiit's Yggdarsil.  But when I see many opposite opinions about something I know that I cannot trust any of those - I need to try it myself. I suggest you do it, too.


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## makne

alpovs said:


> I learned that on audiophile forums there are mostly conflicting opinions. Just like you described. Some people like "something", others like the opposite to that "something". Of course, there is consensus on certain obvious things like the DAC of a Realtek PC sound card is worse than Schiit's Yggdarsil.  But when I see many opposite opinions about something I know that I cannot trust any of those - I need to try it myself. I suggest you do it, too.


Managed to book a listening session with a Hugo tomorrow! Hopefully the one on sale for 700$ doesn't get sold before I can make a decision...
I will come back to you with impressions when I've made my decision!


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## Tuneslover

alpovs said:


> I learned that on audiophile forums there are mostly conflicting opinions. Just like you described. Some people like "something", others like the opposite to that "something". Of course, there is consensus on certain obvious things like the DAC of a Realtek PC sound card is worse than Schiit's Yggdarsil.  But when I see many opposite opinions about something I know that I cannot trust any of those - I need to try it myself. I suggest you do it, too.



I do enjoy reading people's impressions however it's best to trust your own ears if auditioning is possible.


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## makne (Jul 15, 2017)

Spent a couple of hours today demoing the Hugo, Oppo HA-1 and Jot+Bifrost. I'm going to get the Hugo.
These are my impressions after the demo session, keep in mind it was only a couple of hours and with around 10 minutes between each unit, with no opportunity to switch back and forth. So not a real A/B/C comparison, take this with a good amount of salt:

I started with the Hugo. First off, the air and spaciousness was what impressed me the most. I've never heard the Elear sound so airy and 3D-like. The treble on the Hugo is smooth and musical, never harsh or offensive in any way Still, it manages to be airy and sparkly.
Same story with the mids, smooth and musical yet still detailed, with great imaging. Not as full-bodied as the HA-1 or my current mimby+marantz pm5005-system, but still I never felt like the Hugo was lacking in that regard. Mark Knopfler's voice on Communique was clearer than ever, more 3D-like and better seperated from the rest of the mix. Great seperation between instruments.
The bass quantity was the only weak point of the Hugo IMO. Still fast, extended and detailed, but lacked some of the body, wheight and punch that I know the Elear is capable of. Noise floor in the Hugo-room was higher than the room where I tried the HA-1 so that may have had an effect, but the Jot-room was the noisiest but still bass-strong.

Next up was the Oppo HA-1. Right off the bat, I could tell the Oppo is far more powerful, delivering bass slam with far more authority than the Hugo. Overall the Oppo is more full-sounding than the Hugo, but the treble seemed less refined to me, more harsh and lacking the sense of effortlessness the Hugo possessed. Soundstage on the Oppo is slightly less airy and a little shallower than the Hugo I think, with imaging also being one step behind in terms of precision and stability.

Coming back to the more budget-oriented Jot+bifrost, the difference was not as big as I thought it would be. The stack was more similar to the HA-1 than the Hugo in presentation, showing off the Elear's strong bass. In the upper registers, I found the Schiit to be more unrefined and harsh, less detailed than the others. Soundstage width was not much changed, but I was missing some depth. Imaging was less precise, instrument seperation not as clear as on the other two. The different layers in music were closer to one another and less airy, but still discernable.

To sum up, I feel like the Hugo was the most clear and refined dac/amp, but also the weakest in terms of power. It was my preferred combo with the Elears, but I fear it would struggle to push harder-to-drive headphones. Still, at 700$, I don't think I can find better sound for the money.
The Jot delivered impressively well given it's price tag, far more powerful than the Hugo. I think that most of the weak-points I listed was down to the DAC (a regular Bifrost), and that the Jot would fare even better with an upgraded source. I even have a suspicion that the Jot may be better than the"amp"-stage in the Hugo, sadly I never got a chance to pair the Hugo with an external amp.
The Oppo HA-1 was almost like a middle-ground between the two others for me, which fits nice with it's price tag. Still, I was never really impressed with the Oppo offering, and I have a suspicion that the Jot paired with a really good dac can even beat the HA-1. This is just a theory though.

Again, this was just a small demo session, we all hear differently, YMMV and all that... Happy listening!

EDIT: I may have misspoken/exaggerated a little regarding the Jot. The differences in refinement, air, clarity and detail may be too large to just be the dac's fault. I've heard the Jot on better Schiit dacs earlier, but never got the same feeling that the Hugo gave me. Can't say for sure though.
The Jot anyway is far more powerful, and I still believe that there's a chance it could outmatch the HA-1's amp section, at least with the right headphones.


----------



## alpovs

Bitfrost was not a multibit version and you have the Mimby. I think you missed the Mimby+Jot combo in your audition.


----------



## makne

alpovs said:


> Bitfrost was not a multibit version and you have the Mimby. I think you missed the Mimby+Jot combo in your audition.


yes, they were out of stock on mimbys and I didn't think of bringing my own. However the difference was so substantial (way bigger than my old dac vs. Mimby), I doubt the multibit would've put the schiit-stack on par with the Hugo. My theory about the Jot was more based on WHAT the Hugo was superior at, which I feel like is the kind of differences you can expect with a dac upgrade.


----------



## Tuneslover

makne said:


> Spent a couple of hours today demoing the Hugo, Oppo HA-1 and Jot+Bifrost. I'm going to get the Hugo.
> These are my impressions after the demo session, keep in mind it was only a couple of hours and with around 10 minutes between each unit, with no opportunity to switch back and forth. So not a real A/B/C comparison, take this with a good amount of salt:
> 
> I started with the Hugo. First off, the air and spaciousness was what impressed me the most. I've never heard the Elear sound so airy and 3D-like. The treble on the Hugo is smooth and musical, never harsh or offensive in any way Still, it manages to be airy and sparkly.
> ...



I hear ya man!  That's why I have 4 amps, 3 Dacs and a bunch of headphones.  Mixing and matching equipment and music.  Let the good times roll.


----------



## makne

Tuneslover said:


> I hear ya man!  That's why I have 4 amps, 3 Dacs and a bunch of headphones.  Mixing and matching equipment and music.  Let the good times roll.


nice dude! I believe the Hugo-Elear combo is perfect for my tastes. Incredibly detailed and airy, yet never harsh. Not the warmest and most full-sounding, but not too bright either imo.


----------



## DavidA

Tuneslover said:


> I hear ya man!  That's why I have 4 amps, 3 Dacs and a bunch of headphones.  Mixing and matching equipment and music.  Let the good times roll.


I like the way you think


----------



## EtRec

Hello...Love the Jot/internal DAC with my Audioquest Nightowls-balanced cable and as pre-amp with my Audioengine N22 Amp. I would like to try out a tube amp or a tube sound between the Jot and my headphone and as preamp without spending too much. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance


----------



## MWSVette

EtRec said:


> Hello...Love the Jot/internal DAC with my Audioquest Nightowls-balanced cable and as pre-amp with my Audioengine N22 Amp. I would like to try out a tube amp or a tube sound between the Jot and my headphone and as preamp without spending too much. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance



You may wish to look a the Schiit Vali 2.  It is a great little tube hybrid amp.  If you wish to dip your toes into tube rolling, it is much cheaper as there is only one tube to roll...


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## cskippy

Since you mentioned preamp, the Saga is a great option and is more transparent than the Vali 2.


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## EtRec (Jul 16, 2017)

MWSVette said:


> You may wish to look a the Schiit Vali 2.  It is a great little tube hybrid amp.  If you wish to dip your toes into tube rolling, it is much cheaper as there is only one tube to roll...





cskippy said:


> Since you mentioned preamp, the Saga is a great option and is more transparent than the Vali 2.



Thanks all for your suggestions. Is there a way to not replace the Jot and still put a tube sound in the chain?


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## EtRec

cskippy said:


> Since you mentioned preamp, the Saga is a great option and is more transparent than the Vali 2.



Would I plug the Saga between the Jot and Audioengine N22 by way or RCA plugs? But what about the Jot's balanced headphone out not getting the tube affect?


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## cskippy

If you're using the Jot as a DAC you won't get the tube effect.  Vali 2 is okay as a tube pre for Jot but you're not really upgrading your sound, just changing it.  It might be worth going for a better amp or DAC instead.


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## rkw (Jul 16, 2017)

EtRec said:


> I would like to try out a tube amp or a tube sound between the Jot and my headphone and as preamp without spending too much.


To continue using the Jot internal DAC as source, your only option is Jot as preamp to an outboard tube amp. A balanced tube amp will get expensive, so you'd have to go with one of the single-ended tube amps.


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## DavidA

EtRec said:


> Hello...Love the Jot/internal DAC with my Audioquest Nightowls-balanced cable and as pre-amp with my Audioengine N22 Amp. I would like to try out a tube amp or a tube sound between the Jot and my headphone and as preamp without spending too much. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance



If you still want to use the Jot as an amp then the only way to get tubes in the audio chain would be to get a DAC with tubes and the only DACs that have tubes and a balanced output is the MHDT Pagoda, about $1700 if you want balanced, they also have a SE model (Stockholm 2) with tubes.  Another alternative would be to get the Saga (SE) that @cskippy noted in his post or the Freya if you want to go balanced.

I think it might be cheaper to just get a amp with a tube buffer like the Vali2 that was mentioned above or if you want a more flexible amp then the Garage 1217 Ember II would be my recommendation.


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## genclaymore (Jul 18, 2017)

DavidA said:


> If you still want to use the Jot as an amp then the only way to get tubes in the audio chain would be to get a DAC with tubes and the only DACs that have tubes and a balanced output is the MHDT Pagoda, about $1700 if you want balanced, they also have a SE model (Stockholm 2) with tubes.  Another alternative would be to get the Saga (SE) that @cskippy noted in his post or the Freya if you want to go balanced.
> 
> I think it might be cheaper to just get a amp with a tube buffer like the Vali2 that was mentioned above or if you want a more flexible amp then the Garage 1217 Ember II would be my recommendation.


Actually he doesn't have to use an balanced tube dac if he wants tube sound to keep doing balanced. I don't know if you are aware of this or not, From the schiit engineer email back,due to the way the jotunheim is design it also does balanced when the RCA input connection.

So his options are far more open, so he can still get any tube dac while still being able to use balanced.


----------



## DavidA

genclaymore said:


> Actually he doesn't have to use an balanced tube dac if he wants tube sound to keep doing balanced. I don't know if you are aware of this or not, From the schiit engineer email back,due to the way the jotunheim is design it also does balanced when the RCA input connection.
> 
> So his options are far more open, so he can still get any tube dac while still being able to use balanced.



I do know that you have to don't have to use a balanced DAC to keep using the balanced output.  But it you want a balanced DAC with a tube stage there aren't many out there.


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## tuna47

I use the mojo as dac HE 1000 headphones I use balanced cable 
I had the lyr fun too tube roll but always trying different flavors 
I really love this combo


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## EtRec

Can someone please explain, what I would lose by going to a unbalanced DAC like a Bitfrost (either version) as opposed to the balanced internal DAC of the Jotunheim? I am using a balanced cable to my Audioquest Nightowl headphones. Does that negate the balanced output chain? Thanks


----------



## makne

EtRec said:


> Can someone please explain, what I would lose by going to a unbalanced DAC like a Bitfrost (either version) as opposed to the balanced internal DAC of the Jotunheim? I am using a balanced cable to my Audioquest Nightowl headphones. Does that negate the balanced output chain? Thanks


You won't lose much, and the Jot will output balanced anyway. Bifrost, or even mimby, will sound better than the Jot dac.


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## RollsDownWindowsManually (Jul 21, 2017)

Tech support question:

I just got my Jot and was planning to use it as the bedside headphone amp for playing music from my Pixel XL Android device.  The problem is when I connect my phone to the Jot's USB DAC input using an OTG cable, the pixel does not recognize the Jot as a device.  My wife has the same phone, just slightly older, but her's works perfectly.  Is there any setting in my phone I need to adjust?  I have no idea why her's works fine while mine doesn't at all.  It's probably some kind of phone issue, nothing wrong with the jot I'd imagine.


----------



## alpovs

RollsDownWindowsManually said:


> Tech support question:
> 
> I just got my Jot and was planning to use it as the bedside headphone amp for playing music from my Pixel XL Android device.  The problem is when I connect my phone to the Jot's USB DAC input using an OTG cable, the pixel does not recognize the Jot as a device.  My wife has the same phone, just slightly older, but her's works perfectly.  Is there any setting in my phone I need to adjust?  I have no idea why her's works fine while mine doesn't at all.  It's probably some kind of phone issue, nothing wrong with the jot I'd imagine.


Similar situation. Two identical Nexus 5X phones. One works with a particular DAC (not Jot), the other doesn't. The phones have the latest Android 7.1.2, the same as yours I assume. I am planning to do a factory reset of the phone that doesn't work with the DAC but haven't done it yet. The mystery is not solved yet. If you find an answer please post here.


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## Peter Ong

Ninadada said:


> I own a Jot with DAC module, Mimby, and Bimby with the HD650 headphones.  To me, the tonal balance and characteristics throughout low, mid, and high frequencies is fairly consistent between all 3 DACs.  The biggest difference is the soundstage and separation increasing with the Mimby and slightly more so with Bimby.  It is more noticeable with good recordings, with the difference between Jot DAC and Mimby about 2x greater than between Mimby and Bimby (Law of diminishing returns).  Bimby does seem to have a slightly warmer sound overall compared with Jot DAC and Mimby and is my favorite of the three.  Value-wise, you won't be disappointed with Mimby.



Thanks for your reply. I recently acquired a Jot+DAC and the JDS Labs Element. When I first heard the Element, I had it a whole week longer than the Jot, I immediately fell in love with how it sounded. My 48ohm Shure SRH-840 sounded full-throated and confident. I don't know how else to articulate that sound quality. It was not louder, it was fuller. And the soundstage was great.

Then I learned about the Jot. I was so impressed with the specs and Schiit seemed a favorite in the forum so I took a chance with the Jot+DAC. When it arrived, it was shrill. I could not stand it. My friend suggested burning it in. So I did. At high gain, I plugged in the SRH840. Turned the Jot knob to 3 o'clock or approximately 75% and played pink noise overnight. when I awoke, the sound was much better. But, it remains much brighter than the Element. The 3D imaging of sound also remains inferior to that of the Element. I have run the pink noise only for one night. I will run the pink noise exercise again for a total of five nights and then see whether the Jot improves further.

To diagnose, I isolated the Jot amp from its onboard DAC by using the Element as the source. Sure enough, the Element sound signature shined through which convinced me that the brightness was due to the Jot's onboard DAC. I tried to do the reverse; I made the Jot be the source for the Element. I had a little trouble at first until I figured out that the Jot controls the volume of the pre out RCA jacks. To get a listenable volume, I had to turn the Jot knob to 12 o'clock and the Element knob to around 6:30 or bearing 190 degrees. This is the position where the Element's volume becomes equal on both sides. The sound was definitely brighter even at lower volumes.

Here's the problem: I want to like the Jot+DAC. I don't want to return it, but it's hell bent on convincing me otherwise. The amp portion is actually fantastic, but the onboard DAC is hear-damagingly bright, flattens a 3D image, and it simply feels like I am playing really loud music inside a cramped cardboard box; it feels so claustrophobic. It squeezes dynamic range so everything is fast and whispers are essentially normal voices and the loud parts of songs seem to lose their expressive characteristics. While all details are there, they do not necessarily grab attention anymore. In Michael Jackson's Billy Jean, the intro has maracas. With the SRH-840 plugged into my MacBook Pro directly, they grab your attention. There is more to that intro that becomes unnoticeable despite them still being heard from within the Jot+DAC. But when I plug in the SRH-840 to the Element, then the experience is so much more pleasureable and visceral.

I am a pianist. My piano is placed unfortunately at a corner in my house where the acoustics are such that if I hit the keys strong enough, the octaves above middle C, the sound seems to float only in that corner and jumble up and I hear a slow moving wah wah wah. My Jot+DAC exhibits this in the SRH-840. In short, aside from the sibilance, the higher frequencies seem to lose control.

Unfortunately, I had to travel only after a week of receiving the Jot. This is why I was able to do the pink noise exercise only for one night. And what's worse is when I get back, I will be past the 15 days where Schiit will accept my return.

So, I may end up having to sell the Jot+DAC at a loss. I'm a little disheartened. In any case, I too was thinking of purchasing the Bifrost Multibit to replace the onboard DAC. Although, I am torn because then it defeats the purpose of the all-in-one chassis which was one of the selling points of the Jot. I wonder if despite being past their return policy if they will still let me return at least the onboard DAC and replace it with a purchase of a Bifrost Multibit.

Thanks to your thoughtful post, I think there is a Bifrost Multibit in my future.


----------



## Bad Username

If you get in contact and tell them you wish to return it before the 15 days then you'll be fine. I doubt they are picky about actually receiving it physically within 15 days.


----------



## makne

Peter Ong said:


> Thanks for your reply. I recently acquired a Jot+DAC and the JDS Labs Element. When I first heard the Element, I had it a whole week longer than the Jot, I immediately fell in love with how it sounded. My 48ohm Shure SRH-840 sounded full-throated and confident. I don't know how else to articulate that sound quality. It was not louder, it was fuller. And the soundstage was great.
> 
> Then I learned about the Jot. I was so impressed with the specs and Schiit seemed a favorite in the forum so I took a chance with the Jot+DAC. When it arrived, it was shrill. I could not stand it. My friend suggested burning it in. So I did. At high gain, I plugged in the SRH840. Turned the Jot knob to 3 o'clock or approximately 75% and played pink noise overnight. when I awoke, the sound was much better. But, it remains much brighter than the Element. The 3D imaging of sound also remains inferior to that of the Element. I have run the pink noise only for one night. I will run the pink noise exercise again for a total of five nights and then see whether the Jot improves further.
> 
> ...


IS it so important to have it all in one box? You could just stack the bimby and Jot on top of each other, it looks pretty neat and has the same footprint. If you use Schiit's pyst RCA's, you won't get any excess cable mess either.


----------



## Peter Ong

DavidA said:


> Its a statement like the above that makes me scratch my head, if the output impedance does not change between high and low gain what is causing the differences noted?  This means that the Jot is coloring the sound in some way which is a contradiction to what people say is a very transparent amp.





Chrismust said:


> I just found one extra bonus of owning Jot. It offer you high gain and low gain mode. Not just volume is different, the sound signature is also audible different. In low gain, the vocal sounds more close and immersing, and high gain give you more bass and treble extension and dynamic. You could switch them accordingly when you listen to different kind of music. Pretty obvious from my own perspective. Give it a try.



Hi Chris,

I too experienced this, although I discovered shortly thereafter that it was my fault. I was listening to Amazon Prime Music. Their service client has its own volume control which defaults to 50%. I realized that there was an EQ difference between low and high gains because of this; at low gain, the sound was airy, at high gain the sound showed more bass.

After I put the Amazon Music client's volume to 100%, switching between high and low gain I was no longer able to discern an EQ difference.

Peter


----------



## Peter Ong

makne said:


> IS it so important to have it all in one box? You could just stack the bimby and Jot on top of each other, it looks pretty neat and has the same footprint. If you use Schiit's pyst RCA's, you won't get any excess cable mess either.



Part of the reason I chose the Jot was this all-in-one feature. Ergo, having it all in one box is of importance. But the crux of my post was hardly about its footprint. In fact, I am seriously considering a Bifrost Multibit.

Would you be okay with dropping $500+ on something that causes you pain when you are trying to listen to music?


----------



## RollsDownWindowsManually

Has anyone experienced crackling in their audio after connecting the Jot+DAC to a computer via USB?  I have to reboot the computer to get rid of it, which is a slight annoyance on laptop that can't always stay connected.  I have tried various usb ports, cables, connecting via usb with both power on and off the jotunheim.  I get rhythmic and loud distortion unless I connect the jotuhheim to the laptop while it's off or I reboot the laptop after connecting it.  My older headroom micro amp+DAC stack doesn't do that.


----------



## cskippy

Peter Ong said:


> Unfortunately, I had to travel only after a week of receiving the Jot. This is why I was able to do the pink noise exercise only for one night. And what's worse is when I get back, I will be past the 15 days where Schiit will accept my return.
> 
> So, I may end up having to sell the Jot+DAC at a loss. I'm a little disheartened. In any case, I too was thinking of purchasing the Bifrost Multibit to replace the onboard DAC. Although, I am torn because then it defeats the purpose of the all-in-one chassis which was one of the selling points of the Jot. I wonder if despite being past their return policy if they will still let me return at least the onboard DAC and replace it with a purchase of a Bifrost Multibit.
> 
> Thanks to your thoughtful post, I think there is a Bifrost Multibit in my future.


You could try emailing Schiit and explain the situation that you will be traveling but wish to REPLACE it with a Jot without DAC and maybe? a Multibit DAC.  They are pretty reasonable folks.


----------



## Peter Ong

koover said:


> Like both you and Bacon Bits stated, it's not the amp. There's black background when I pause any track. Damn, what's the odds of having 3 very sensitive HP's? I thought at least the 650's wouldn't hiss but they do. Now I got to figure out what to listen too that doesn't suck with how they laid the tracks down. It's everything.....damn. So much for nirvana.
> I always run the Jot on low gain as it's got plenty of power and most times I'm between 12 O'clock at 2.
> Thanx for the replies guys.



You might be amplifying silence. You mentioned Tidal and Spotify. And you mentioned you're between 12 and 2 o'clock on your Jot. Put the Tidal and Spotify volume to the max. Then, your Jot should be well before 12 o'clock.


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## Peter Ong

RollsDownWindowsManually said:


> Has anyone experienced crackling in their audio after connecting the Jot+DAC to a computer via USB?  I have to reboot the computer to get rid of it, which is a slight annoyance on laptop that can't always stay connected.  I have tried various usb ports, cables, connecting via usb with both power on and off the jotunheim.  I get rhythmic and loud distortion unless I connect the jotuhheim to the laptop while it's off or I reboot the laptop after connecting it.  My older headroom micro amp+DAC stack doesn't do that.



Is your Jot near a cellphone, a WiFi antenna or router? Is near something that sends radio signals? If so, maybe try to move it away from it and see if the clicking correspondingly lessens?


----------



## mks100

RollsDownWindowsManually said:


> Has anyone experienced crackling in their audio after connecting the Jot+DAC to a computer via USB?  I have to reboot the computer to get rid of it, which is a slight annoyance on laptop that can't always stay connected.  I have tried various usb ports, cables, connecting via usb with both power on and off the jotunheim.  I get rhythmic and loud distortion unless I connect the jotuhheim to the laptop while it's off or I reboot the laptop after connecting it.  My older headroom micro amp+DAC stack doesn't do that.



Yes.  I was disconnecting and reconnecting my USB Cable at my Laptop and experimenting with an Anker USB Hub when I first purchased the Jot.  Disconnecting the Cable from the back of the Jot and reconnecting fixed the issue for me.  Have not had any crackling in 4+ Weeks.  AudioQuest Forest 1.5M USB Cable.


----------



## dr cornelius

Peter Ong said:


> Thanks for your reply. I recently acquired a Jot+DAC and the JDS Labs Element. When I first heard the Element, I had it a whole week longer than the Jot, I immediately fell in love with how it sounded. My 48ohm Shure SRH-840 sounded full-throated and confident. I don't know how else to articulate that sound quality. It was not louder, it was fuller. And the soundstage was great.



Why don’t you just stick with the Element?  The 840’s don’t need all of that power that the Jot affords, and unless you’re running balanced, higher end cans, there’s no reason to go with a Jot...


----------



## RollsDownWindowsManually

Yeah, reconnecting at the back of the jot USB doesn't work for me to stop the crackling, I will try it again though.


----------



## makne

For people having usb-problems, maybe Wyrd could be a solution? Schiit also announced USB gen. 5 recently, don't remember if the upgrade will be available for the Jot dac though.


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## koover (Jul 23, 2017)

Peter Ong said:


> You might be amplifying silence. You mentioned Tidal and Spotify. And you mentioned you're between 12 and 2 o'clock on your Jot. Put the Tidal and Spotify volume to the max. Then, your Jot should be well before 12 o'clock.



Both Spotify and Tidal have always been maxed out in volume. I guess I like loud music because on low gain, I'm "usually" around 12 o'clock and as the listening session moves on, well.... 1 and 2 o'clock. I already have tinnitus and was tested and diagnosed with decreased hearing so another reason I may like higher volumes. Who am I kidding...not correct. I like it loud. 
Right now I'm set at 12 noon, low gain with my Nightowls and it's just not that loud. It really isn't that loud to me and anyone that's listened to my set-up at this volume who's into music, asks me to crank it even more. Nevertheless, please understand if concerned like most, (for additional hearing damage reasons) it isn't like I listen for hours on end at these volumes. I'm usually at 12 noon.

Anything to do with the Jot and my cans I'm using together?

I've just succumbed to the fact that my levels are louder, thus more background noise and the way certain tracks are laid down. I'm *very* disappointed as I've only been into this hobby since March and never expected anything other then a black noise floor. I already have upgradeitis and need better then what I have. My ears and wallet are on different pages though. Wife too. 
I really appreciate the feedback especially since I posted a while ago. Thank you!


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## Tuneslover

I must say that I much prefer having my Jot  placed on top of the Bimby.  Having the Jot elevated off of the table top certainly makes life easier when plugging headphones into it, especially into the SE output.  Visually it looks much nicer sitting on top of the Bimby too.


----------



## Peter Ong

dr cornelius said:


> Why don’t you just stick with the Element?  The 840’s don’t need all of that power that the Jot affords, and unless you’re running balanced, higher end cans, there’s no reason to go with a Jot...



Hello Dr Cornelius,

You have a point. I could simply stay with the Element. In the end, I may end up doing just that. However, as I had mentioned, I want to like the Jot+DAC. At the moment, the Jot+DAC is situated in my home office. And the Element has become a part of my real office listening setup

With respect to the SRH-840, although its label mentions 48ohms, it seems to require more power still to overcome this impedance. In fact, I have had a love/hate relationship with my Shure SRH-840. It is uncomfortable and heavy. The way it clamps to my head is like very short chopsticks trying to pick up a large ice cube. So the pressure is not clamping the cans into my ears, it's more squeezing the corners of my skull and it just so happens that the cans touch my head. So when I put them on, the top part of the circumference of the cans have greater pressure than the part at the bottom of my ears. In short, the cans are uneven and therefore uncomfortable. But if you put it on right, it becomes okay.

The sound of it too was horrible at first. It was at this point that I got a clue about its power requirements. Plugged in directly to my Macbook Pro, it sounded exasperated. Imagine you're out of breath and you are trying to belt out a high note on stage. You have to be loud enough to be heard in the back of the auditorium, but you have to keep the song composed. This was how the SRH-840 sounded at first. It had almost no bass too. But I had paid $199 for it. And I had read the reviews for it; I wanted to reconcile the rave reviews with my experiences. That many people can't be wrong about same headphones I have which appear to have no physical defects. And then I realized, I have the Bose Companion 5. I had completely forgotten about it until that moment, that it had a built-in DAC/Amp. I plugged in the SRH-840 and suddenly, it was a completely different set of headphones. It was exactly the rave reviews I had been reading. It sounded exactly like what seemed it was meant to sound like. Full and confident -- with still plenty of air in the diaphragm. The bass began to show up. The bass was perfect, not boomy like the Sony MDR-7506. It was a very surgical bass; it was there when it was needed, nothing more and nothing less. It was satisfyingly just right.

Then I wondered if this was unique to the Bose. I looked around and after some research, I gifted myself the JDS Labs Element. The Bose DAC/Amp and the Element brought out the hidden gem within my SRH-840. So, I have modest choices when it comes to DAC/Amps. And then I read about the Schiit Jotunheim and then continue on to my original assessment of the Jot. At the moment, the DAC appears to be crap more than Schiit, but the amp is fantastic.

While I could stay with the Element and the Bose Companion 5, I have become a kind of a collector without meaning to. Now, I want to make this work. Also, I have the AKG K7xx and Sennheiser HD6xx arriving soon from Massdrop. They are both greater than 48ohms impedances. While I am sure the Bose and the Element will sufficiently drive them, I don't want to say goodbye to the Jot+DAC just yet. Maybe there is a hidden gem there too much like my discovery with the SRH-840. Maybe it just needs more exercise before it can sound like some of the fantastic reviews I have read here.

Peter


----------



## Tuneslover

Peter Ong said:


> Hello Dr Cornelius,
> 
> You have a point. I could simply stay with the Element. In the end, I may end up doing just that. However, as I had mentioned, I want to like the Jot+DAC. At the moment, the Jot+DAC is situated in my home office. And the Element has become a part of my real office listening setup
> 
> ...



I'd be interested in your assessment of the JOT+DAC with the HD6XX when they arrive.  However, be sure to run in your JOT and HD6XX for a bit before you arrive at any conclusion.  I have the Jot (no internal DAC...but I have the Bimby) and HD650 and I think this is a very good combination.


----------



## rkw

Tuneslover said:


> I'd be interested in your assessment of the JOT+DAC with the HD6XX when they arrive. However, be sure to run in your JOT and HD6XX for a bit before you arrive at any conclusion. I have the Jot (no internal DAC...but I have the Bimby) and HD650 and I think this is a very good combination.


Jot+DAC with HD6XX is exactly the combination I've been using for the past 7 months, and I like it a lot. As you know, Jot matches well with the HD6XX/HD650. I use a balanced cable which provides further enhancement (the Jot's balanced output delivers 2½× the power of its single ended output).

@Peter Ong, I chose the internal DAC as a single box solution, and it works very well for me (although I've always had in mind to upgrade the DAC sometime in the future). I haven't heard the unpleasant shrill sound you describe. Either you have a defective DAC or the USB from your laptop has a lot of electrical noise. The Jot DAC card is like the base Modi 2 and is powered by the USB (not by the Jot internal power supply), and it is susceptible to being affected by electrical noise on the USB. You should try the Jot on a different computer. If the results are the same it might be a defective card.


----------



## ckwong

makne said:


> For people having usb-problems, maybe Wyrd could be a solution? Schiit also announced USB gen. 5 recently, don't remember if the upgrade will be available for the Jot dac though.



I was wondering the same thing when they announced their USB 5 input. 

"The USB Gen 5 input is now standard on all upgradable Schiit DACs. Retail prices remain the same as before, with Bifrost and Bifrost Multibit at $399 and $599 respectively, Gungnir and Gungnir Multibit at $849 and $1249 respectively, and Yggdrasil at $2299. Current owners of Schiit DACs with Gen 1, 2, and 3 USB inputs can upgrade for $150 with installation. All Gen 5 products are available for purchase now."

By just going off of their news article copied above, it sounds like it'll only be available on the Bifrost, Gungnir and Yggdrasil.


----------



## showme99

ckwong said:


> I was wondering the same thing when they announced their USB 5 input.
> 
> "The USB Gen 5 input is now standard on all upgradable Schiit DACs. Retail prices remain the same as before, with Bifrost and Bifrost Multibit at $399 and $599 respectively, Gungnir and Gungnir Multibit at $849 and $1249 respectively, and Yggdrasil at $2299. Current owners of Schiit DACs with Gen 1, 2, and 3 USB inputs can upgrade for $150 with installation. All Gen 5 products are available for purchase now."
> 
> By just going off of their news article copied above, it sounds like it'll only be available on the Bifrost, Gungnir and Yggdrasil.


Another option for USB Gen 5 would be the new Schiit Eitr:

http://schiit.com/products/eitr

But since it's also a USB-to-SPDIF converter, you'd need to use it with a DAC that has a coaxial input.


----------



## ToTo Man

What happened to USB Gen 4?


----------



## CarlosUnchained

ToTo Man said:


> What happened to USB Gen 4?



The gen 5 was too good to be named gen 4, apparently.


----------



## showme99

ToTo Man said:


> What happened to USB Gen 4?



https://www.head-fi.org/p/1121/schiit-happened-skipping-a-generation


----------



## EricDH

EtRec said:


> Hello,
> I'm a satisfied owner of the Jot with internal DAC ( I tried the Bitfrost Multibit and sent it back) . Using my Audioquest Nightowl Carbon headphones through a 4pin XLR balanced cable (and the Jot as pre-amp to my Audioengine N22 AMP). Love the combo. I'm very curious to hear what  tubes would sound like in the setup. Is there a reasonably priced way to introduce tubes to the mix? Thanks



I am looking at buying a Jotunheim with DAC module. Your post made me curious.....how can that internal DAC be better than a Bifrost multibit?


----------



## Ninadada

Peter Ong said:


> Thanks for your reply. I recently acquired a Jot+DAC and the JDS Labs Element. When I first heard the Element, I had it a whole week longer than the Jot, I immediately fell in love with how it sounded. My 48ohm Shure SRH-840 sounded full-throated and confident. I don't know how else to articulate that sound quality. It was not louder, it was fuller. And the soundstage was great.
> 
> Then I learned about the Jot. I was so impressed with the specs and Schiit seemed a favorite in the forum so I took a chance with the Jot+DAC. When it arrived, it was shrill. I could not stand it. My friend suggested burning it in. So I did. At high gain, I plugged in the SRH840. Turned the Jot knob to 3 o'clock or approximately 75% and played pink noise overnight. when I awoke, the sound was much better. But, it remains much brighter than the Element. The 3D imaging of sound also remains inferior to that of the Element. I have run the pink noise only for one night. I will run the pink noise exercise again for a total of five nights and then see whether the Jot improves further.
> 
> ...


Seeing that you live in Los Angeles, you may consider visiting their retail store.  Take your headphones with you and ask to demo a Jot+Bimby combo.  
The Schiitr
22508 Market Street
Newhall, CA 91321
Open Thursday thru Sunday, 10AM-6PM.*


----------



## Peter Ong

rkw said:


> I haven't heard the unpleasant shrill sound you describe. Either you have a defective DAC or the USB from your laptop has a lot of electrical noise. The Jot DAC card is like the base Modi 2 and is powered by the USB (not by the Jot internal power supply), and it is susceptible to being affected by electrical noise on the USB. You should try the Jot on a different computer. If the results are the same it might be a defective card.



Hello rkw,

I ordered a 1/8" to RCA cable. When I return from my travels, I will bypass the onboard DAC of the Jot+DAC and use the DAC in my MacBook Pro through the headphone jack as a test. Although I am convinced the issue is truly the Jot's onboard DAC because, as I had mentioned in a previous post, I had isolated the Jot amp before by using the Element's DAC and that was connected via USB and that resulted in terrific sound quality. But I want to hear anyway the output of the MacBook Pro's headphone jack. I should also add that the headphone jack and DAC of MacBook Pros are excellent albeit short on power to properly drive the 48ohm Shure SRH-840.

Peter


----------



## Peter Ong

Ninadada said:


> Seeing that you live in Los Angeles, you may consider visiting their retail store.  Take your headphones with you and ask to demo a Jot+Bimby combo.
> The Schiitr
> 22508 Market Street
> Newhall, CA 91321
> Open Thursday thru Sunday, 10AM-6PM.*



Thank you. Great advice. I have been planning to do this.


----------



## rkw (Jul 27, 2017)

Ninadada said:


> Seeing that you live in Los Angeles, you may consider visiting their retail store.  Take your headphones with you and ask to demo a Jot+Bimby combo.
> The Schiitr
> 22508 Market Street
> Newhall, CA 91321
> Open Thursday thru Sunday, 10AM-6PM.*





Peter Ong said:


> Thank you. Great advice. I have been planning to do this.


You'll be able to check it out completely if you bring not only your headphones, but also your Jot-DAC and laptop. I presume they have a demo Jot-DAC there. You could compare it with yours, using your laptop in the exactly the setup that gives you bad sound. If you can reproduce the problem there (and it doesn't happen with their demo unit), I'd imagine that they'd let you exchange it for a replacement on the spot.


----------



## tuna47

I have the onboard dac I find it harsh for my taste
I use my mojo as a dac much better


----------



## joeexp

tuna47 said:


> I have the onboard dac I find it harsh for my taste
> I use my mojo as a dac much better



Yep Chord Mojo $599;  Jotunheim DAC: $150 -- What a surprise!


----------



## alpovs

joeexp said:


> Yep Chord Mojo $599;  Jotunheim DAC: $150 -- What a surprise!


Jotunheim DAC is actually $100 (self-install board or when ordering a new combo).


----------



## maxh22

joeexp said:


> Yep Chord Mojo $599;  Jotunheim DAC: $150 -- What a surprise!



Brand new Mojo is $498


----------



## joeexp

So the Mojo is only 5 times more expensive then?


----------



## FredQc

Hello, Jot community!

I am really enjoying my Jot+DAC since April and now I found it sounds even better with JRiver 23 compared to foobar2000. I was using foobar2000 with WASAPI drivers and I was hearing "clicks" when playing music in EVENT mode. PUSH mode did not have the clicks but sounded worst. Anyway, resolved now with JRiver. So, I am rediscovering my music library again 

One question, since I have the +DAC, does it matters to leave it on 24/7 like the other expensive DACs ?


----------



## Oklahoma

Not as much. With the multibit dacs it is due to the fact that the chips themselves need to stay at a constant operating temperature to function properly.


----------



## cskippy

Oklahoma said:


> Not as much. With the multibit dacs it is due to the fact that the chips themselves need to stay at a constant operating temperature to *perform their best*.


----------



## FredQc

Alright, so there is no good reason to let it stay on full time. That is what I understand.

Thanks guys


----------



## cskippy

Hahaha no, I didn't say that, I was simply rephrasing his statement as it made them sound like they would be broken if they weren't always on.  I do leave mine on 24/7 so that all components remain at a constant operating temperature.


----------



## Topspin70 (Aug 1, 2017)

Ensuring our gear sound their best sounds like a good reason to me.

My usual concern has more to do with the potentially damaging heat (up to 45C at times) that results from leaving precious electronics on 24/7 esp in my equatorial climate. Luckily the Jot hardly gets anywhere near hot, though mine doesn't have a DAC.


----------



## Swiftfalcon

tuna47 said:


> I have the onboard dac I find it harsh for my taste
> I use my mojo as a dac much better


I also use mojo>Jot combo and love it. But the jotdac is not bad if you are listening casually or listening at lower volume. Most tracks also play fine when listening through forgiving phones like HD650. Also the jotdac is a nice option when the mojo is out of charge or when you want to give it a rest.


----------



## alphanumerix1

eta on multibit jot lol

How often do schiit update there products? not sure what there product cycle is like.


----------



## cskippy

Multibit Jot is any Multibit DAC into Jot.  There isn't enough space inside for a MB board.


----------



## Letmebefrank

You would need 2x Mimby boards and external power for a multibit Jot dac. Not going to happen IMO.


----------



## MWSVette

alphanumerix1 said:


> eta on multibit jot lol
> 
> How often do schiit update there products? not sure what there product cycle is like.



Mike has already said that it cannot be done due to space constraints...


----------



## Tuneslover

MWSVette said:


> Mike has already said that it cannot be done due to space constraints...



Haha I remember when the Schiit guys said that a Multibit wouldn't fit into a Modi but look what happened.


----------



## alphanumerix1

Tuneslover said:


> Haha I remember when the Schiit guys said that a Multibit wouldn't fit into a Modi but look what happened.


----------



## Tuneslover

Tuneslover said:


> Haha I remember when the Schiit guys said that a Multibit wouldn't fit into a Modi but look what happened.



Plus, Schiit the MB DAC sound best when they are powered on all of the time in order to keep the DAC at optimum operating temperature.  Although I suppose you could leave the unit on all of the time but the Jot does get toasty when left on for any length of time.


----------



## MikeW (Aug 5, 2017)

ckwong said:


> I was wondering the same thing when they announced their USB 5 input.
> 
> "The USB Gen 5 input is now standard on all upgradable Schiit DACs. Retail prices remain the same as before, with Bifrost and Bifrost Multibit at $399 and $599 respectively, Gungnir and Gungnir Multibit at $849 and $1249 respectively, and Yggdrasil at $2299. Current owners of Schiit DACs with Gen 1, 2, and 3 USB inputs can upgrade for $150 with installation. All Gen 5 products are available for purchase now."
> 
> By just going off of their news article copied above, it sounds like it'll only be available on the Bifrost, Gungnir and Yggdrasil.



I have found in my situation, a Wyrd4Sound Recovery, made a significant improvement to the Jot's DAC. I think Recovery or Regen is a better choice then Wyrd, as both options tend to be better reviewed. If Schiit ever updates the Jot's dac with Gen5 it will be a moot point, as im sure that alone, would significantly improve audio quality and consistency. Being the JOT's a new product though, I don't expect any upgrade options for a year or two. I think this is why there's such a range of opinion in the jot dac, as it's vulnerable to noise issues and everyone's setup differs in that regard. It makes for an inconsistent result.

Schiit's been rather "stand offish" with regards to decrapifier's, but that's basically what USB Gen1/Gen2/Gen3/Gen5 is.. it's a built in decrapifier, with regard to just getting the job done at a higher level. The seem to imply products like Wyrd/Recovery/Regen are not worth the time, but those products do, to a lesser degree, the same things they are doing in their higher end USB interface options. Particularly with regard to more layers of isolation. I belive Gen5 is better then everything before it, and probably makes Regen/Recovery/Wyrd moot, but that does not mean those products did not help, sometimes significantly, with prior USB generations.


----------



## EricDH

Ok, I ordered a Jotunheim/DAC today, together with a Wyrd. Let's see if they will find their way all the way to Saudi Arabia....


----------



## tuna47

I do not think the mojo is expensive in today’s market 
I use the HE 1000 so need something a little smoother than the jot dac


----------



## MikeW

Letmebefrank said:


> You would need 2x Mimby boards and external power for a multibit Jot dac. Not going to happen IMO.



While it would be a change from the way things are done now, no one said the internal jot dac must be balanced. They could release an unbalanced internal board. Still not enough room for multibit with today's tech. Although, there is room for improvement with the dac, just adding USB5 would be a significant change, if they could do that, and maybe throw in a little something more, it would be a worthwhile upgrade. What that "Something more" is, I don't know, tweak the output stage? a newer dac chip? go unbalanced and use that space for something better? who knows I do hope they eventually update the dac, but it's probably way to early to talk about that.


----------



## Decommo

Can anyone help me to figure out if Jotunheim is right for my need?

I am keen to try active studio monitor but it needs XLR connection.

My Dac/preamp is balanced dac that has XLR output so I can connect CD (coax), computer (USB), server (optical) to my DAC and output to active monitor (XLR).
However, I have turntable to connect but my Dac does not have any analogue RCA input and I also do need headphone amp too.

Can Jotunheim + phono-amp module help me to connect to turntable to active speaker? I noticed that Jotunheim can be added phono-amp but not sure if I can output to active monitor via XLR balanced or SE output instead. 

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.  

Thank you in advance.


----------



## Swiftfalcon (Aug 13, 2017)

Decommo said:


> Can anyone help me to figure out if Jotunheim is right for my need?
> 
> I am keen to try active studio monitor but it needs XLR connection.
> 
> ...


I don't know how a turntable connects to a jotunheim's phono stage module but the jotunheim has left and right 3 pin xlr preout in addition to left and right rca preout. So I guess you should be able to use it as preamp for active monitors. I have noticed the jot's volume pot still controls volume in preamp mode.
As headphone amp it has 4 pin xlr and 6.3 mm outputs.


----------



## cskippy

I'm pretty sure that Jot will do all the things you need with the Phono card.  Just remember that the pre outs are always active so you might want to put your powered monitors on an easily accessible power strip to turn them off when listening to headphones or not in use.


----------



## joeexp

Decommo said:


> I am keen to try active studio monitor but it needs XLR connection.
> 
> Thank you in advance.



You don't need an amp with XLR outputs. You can just use a RCA to XLR cable to connect your active monitors.
No need to buy a new amp.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pseudo-Ba...hash=item2822566e04:m:mKxGTKc7mFaFFVcLIbTiDsA


----------



## Decommo

cskippy said:


> I'm pretty sure that Jot will do all the things you need with the Phono card.  Just remember that the pre outs are always active so you might want to put your powered monitors on an easily accessible power strip to turn them off when listening to headphones or not in use.



Thank you. May I know what happens if I do not turn off active speaker? Does it mean that it will play both speaker as well as headphone at the sam time?


----------



## Decommo

joeexp said:


> You don't need an amp with XLR outputs. You can just use a RCA to XLR cable to connect your active monitors.
> No need to buy a new amp.
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pseudo-Ba...hash=item2822566e04:m:mKxGTKc7mFaFFVcLIbTiDsA



Thank you. It may not work for my purpose, I believe.

I need two output to choose between Active speaker and headphone amp.
All of digital source (CDP, Computer, Streamer) are connected to DAC so I need to connect this DAC to active speaker as well as headphone amp.
And, I need to add turntable + phono amp as analogue input.


----------



## cskippy

Decommo said:


> Thank you. May I know what happens if I do not turn off active speaker? Does it mean that it will play both speaker as well as headphone at the sam time?


Yes that is correct.


----------



## litwick87

Haven't been on here in YEARS, but I recently built a new desk and revamped my setup, with which came a dive back into desktop gear. Ordered a Jot and HD650s. The Jot will also be a preamp to my KRK Rokit5G2 and matching 10" sub. I mainly listen to various types of dance music, but decided I'd try my first pair of open headphones before I just go out and get yet another pair of Beyers.

My last headphones were DT-770/80 and a little Fiio amp so nothing that crazy. I've never owned an external dac and full desktop amp so I'm pretty excited. My only other headphones are my HD25ii that I DJ with, but I plan on getting the DT-1770 pro and maybe even the Hifiman 4xx off of massdrop.


----------



## Letmebefrank

litwick87 said:


> Haven't been on here in YEARS, but I recently built a new desk and revamped my setup, with which came a dive back into desktop gear. Ordered a Jot and HD650s. The Jot will also be a preamp to my KRK Rokit5G2 and matching 10" sub. I mainly listen to various types of dance music, but decided I'd try my first pair of open headphones before I just go out and get yet another pair of Beyers.
> 
> My last headphones were DT-770/80 and a little Fiio amp so nothing that crazy. I've never owned an external dac and full desktop amp so I'm pretty excited. My only other headphones are my HD25ii that I DJ with, but I plan on getting the DT-1770 pro and maybe even the Hifiman 4xx off of massdrop.



Keep in mind that you will have to turn off or somehow mute your monitors when you want to listen to headphones, as the balanced nature of Jotunheim prevents it from muting the pre-amp outs when a headphone is connected. A conveniently placed power strip with a switch can do wonders in this case. 

Also, do yourself a favor and pick up a neutrik 4 pin xlr male and a sennheiser replacement cable and whip up a balanced cable for your HD650s. If you don't have a soldering iron you can purchase a cable pre-made from several places online, but it's almost cheaper to buy an iron and parts to make it yourself. 

The HD650s sound absolutely fantastic from the balanced output of Jotunheim. Enjoy your new purchase!


----------



## litwick87

Letmebefrank said:


> Keep in mind that you will have to turn off or somehow mute your monitors when you want to listen to headphones, as the balanced nature of Jotunheim prevents it from muting the pre-amp outs when a headphone is connected. A conveniently placed power strip with a switch can do wonders in this case.
> 
> Also, do yourself a favor and pick up a neutrik 4 pin xlr male and a sennheiser replacement cable and whip up a balanced cable for your HD650s. If you don't have a soldering iron you can purchase a cable pre-made from several places online, but it's almost cheaper to buy an iron and parts to make it yourself.
> 
> The HD650s sound absolutely fantastic from the balanced output of Jotunheim. Enjoy your new purchase!


yup I shot a message over to schiit before I ordered, I'll put the monitors on their own power strip or on a wifi switch. I plan on ordering a cable from Impact Audio Cables as well.

Any of you guys using the built in DAC on the Jot with one of their tube amps as well?


----------



## Decommo

Letmebefrank said:


> Keep in mind that you will have to turn off or somehow mute your monitors when you want to listen to headphones, as the balanced nature of Jotunheim prevents it from muting the pre-amp outs when a headphone is connected. A conveniently placed power strip with a switch can do wonders in this case.
> 
> The HD650s sound absolutely fantastic from the balanced output of Jotunheim. Enjoy your new purchase!



I am a bit concerned damaging powered monitor. is monitor okay if it is turned off and on by power strip with a switch? 

And, have you also tried Jot with HD600? I heard great result pairing HD650 but not sure about HD600 which I do prefer against HD650.

Thank you.


----------



## dr cornelius

Decommo said:


> I am a bit concerned damaging powered monitor. is monitor okay if it is turned off and on by power strip with a switch?
> 
> And, have you also tried Jot with HD600? I heard great result pairing HD650 but not sure about HD600 which I do prefer against HD650.
> 
> Thank you.



I also prefer the 600s over the 650s - I use a Jot with internal DAC and HD600s - sounds excellent...


----------



## Decommo

dr cornelius said:


> I also prefer the 600s over the 650s - I use a Jot with internal DAC and HD600s - sounds excellent...



Great to hear. Thank you. Keen to pair it with HD600 balanced.


----------



## litwick87

OMG these 650s sound fantastic just out of my laptop. Can't wait to see what the amp does to them tomorrow, and again when my cable arrives.


----------



## ahossam

At first I am planning to get Mjolnir 2 pair with Gungnir multibit, but after reading a lot about tube amp (I never had experience with tube amp) I was a bit of scared, the idea of tube rolling is scared me. So instead I am planning to get Jotunheim amp (Ragnarok is out of my budget) pairing with Gungnir. What do you guys think? Any advice will be much appreciated, thanks.


----------



## cskippy

I don't want to talk you out of getting Jot but Mjolnir 2 with stock tubes is just fine. You can also purchase the LISST tubes as well for an all solid state amp.  IMO, people spend too much money tube rolling, I speak from experience spending over $400 on tubes for an amp costing $300.


----------



## ahossam

cskippy said:


> You can also purchase the LISST tubes as well for an all solid state amp.



Yes but people on the Mjolnir 2 forum and review seems to dislike the LISST tubes, its not as good as dedicated solid state amp and in this case some people prefer Jotunheim over Mjolnir 2 with LISST tubes.


----------



## ahossam

cskippy said:


> IMO, people spend too much money tube rolling, I speak from experience spending over $400 on tubes for an amp costing $300.



This is what I am afraid of


----------



## cskippy

What are your headphones?  Do you care about soundstage or do you just want quick transients, good bass and a slightly brighter sound?  Jot will do well with darker headphones like the HD650, really brings them to life.  It has great driver control but it lacks in sound stage depth and can have a treble glare or slight edge to the sound that never completely goes away.


----------



## ahossam

cskippy said:


> What are your headphones?  Do you care about soundstage or do you just want quick transients, good bass and a slightly brighter sound?  Jot will do well with darker headphones like the HD650, really brings them to life.  It has great driver control but it lacks in sound stage depth and can have a treble glare or slight edge to the sound that never completely goes away.



I am using Focal Elear pairing it with JDS LABS El DAC/AMP stack. The El DAC/AMP is my first desktop setup and Elear really sound good with it compare to my portable setup (iBasso DX200). So I am just curious how much Elear will improve when I am pairing it with a better desktop setup.


----------



## Tuneslover

cskippy said:


> I don't want to talk you out of getting Jot but Mjolnir 2 with stock tubes is just fine. You can also purchase the LISST tubes as well for an all solid state amp.  IMO, people spend too much money tube rolling, I speak from experience spending over $400 on tubes for an amp costing $300.



I agree that you don't need to buy too many tubes to get a good cross section of how a tube amp sounds.  I bought 3 popular tubes for my Vali 2 to replace the stock tube over the last 2 years.  They sound very good with my Project Ember too, so does the very nice 12V tube that came with it.


----------



## tuna47

I was a tube roller for a while. I enjoyed it but got carried away can get expensive 
I have the he1000 which I feel is better with solid state so use the jot
I would buy a tube amp again but just purchase one set of upgrade tubes


----------



## litwick87

Anyone use the saga tube preamp with the Jot to give it a little tube sound?


----------



## Tuneslover

I have an HD650 (with balanced cable) and will be getting the HD6XX (with standard SE cable) when Massdrop ships them in December.  I was wondering if the Jotunheim is able to capably run both headphones simultaneously?  Since both headphones are 300 ohm they should be roughly the same volume.  Actually the balanced set should be a bit louder but that's ok.


----------



## XERO1

cskippy said:


> Jot will do well with darker headphones like the HD650, really brings them to life.  It has great driver control but it lacks in sound stage depth and can have a treble glare or slight edge to the sound that never completely goes away.



Totally agree with this.  As much as I love my Jot, if it's paired with brighter sounding headphones, it can definitely become too much of a good thing.  The Lyr 2 is also an amazingly great sounding amp (even with its stock tubes) and I actually prefer it in many respects over the Jot.  I plan on getting the Lyr 2 as my next amp to compliment the Jot, because sometimes I want a slightly richer and more vivid sound than the Jot provides.

The Jot is like Sparkletts ultra-filtered water, while the Lyr 2 is more like Arrowhead mountain spring water.  They both are pure water but each one has its own unique subtle flavor.


----------



## litwick87 (Aug 18, 2017)

Been using the Jot all day for different genres and even a little gaming. I love this thing with the 650s. Night and day difference from just out of my laptop. Eventually I'll "upgrade"? to the Bifrost Multibit for a DAC, but for now i love it as-is.

If I were to get one of Schiits tube amps, how would I set it up?

Jot DAC->tube amp and just run my headphones off of it? Or would I need a whole new DAC?


----------



## cskippy

If you have the USB DAC for Jot you can use the preamp outputs and send to a tube amp.  Put the volume on the tube amp to 3/4 and control the volume with Jots pot.


----------



## litwick87

cskippy said:


> If you have the USB DAC for Jot you can use the preamp outputs and send to a tube amp.  Put the volume on the tube amp to 3/4 and control the volume with Jots pot.


I'll keep this in mind, thanks!


----------



## litwick87

Wow, the Jot did more for my powered monitors than I ever would have imagined :eek3:


----------



## prazvt

So I sent my Elears back to get them checked out, so kind of getting to know my HD600s again.  Gumby MB + Jotunheim combo seems to suit the HD600s well.  Very smooth, I'm actually really impressed.


----------



## joeexp

I also have the Gumby/Jot Combo. 
The Jot sounds less harsh when left on at all times with my HD650s.


----------



## Reiven

Ordered balanced cable from Lindsey to Jotunheim with MrSpeakers Aeon. How much the balanced output vs. SE affects the sound?
https://www.etsy.com/listing/470021455/custom-infinity-series-cable-fits-mr?ref=shop_home_active_2


----------



## eschell27

Reiven said:


> Ordered balanced cable from Lindsey to Jotunheim with MrSpeakers Aeon. How much the balanced output vs. SE affects the sound?
> https://www.etsy.com/listing/470021455/custom-infinity-series-cable-fits-mr?ref=shop_home_active_2



Well i'd say your main difference and benefit is the extra power you get which generally tends to make most headphones sound better (IME more controlled and dynamic among other things)


----------



## Peter Ong

Well, I had given the Jot+DAC more than the benefit of the doubt. I really wanted to like it, but tonight, I give into what my ears have been telling me since the beginning.

This is what I have learned from the Jot+DAC. The DAC is terrible! The amp is very nice. I knew this less than 30 minutes in to listening to it, but I really wanted to like Schiit. I had started the return process with Schiit, but at the last minute, I chose to keep it so now I'm really beyond the return window. But, I can lie to my ears only for so long. I'm supposed to enjoy the music, not keep justifying the Jot+DAC is just as good.

I tried burning it in. The sound did get better. I think my headphones benefited from the exercise too. But the DAC sound just would not open up. It continued to feel closed in like the sound is a ball of noise in the middle. So much detail was getting muffled. On every listening session, when I felt like doing an AB test with the Element, the difference is so apparent. The DAC makes listening to the Jot like I'm inside a shoebox. The Element is like listening to an appropriately sized listening room and the details, that the Jot does not hide so much as it gets lost in the ball of sound, are so beautifully apparent with perfect separation.

I listened briefly to the Jot bypassing the DAC by using the Element through the RCA inputs. The amp sounded great. I visited Schiitr last weekend too. I listened to a Jot+DAC, but I connected a Bifrost Multibit to it instead. It sounded great. It is clearly the onboard DAC that sounds like a pile of schiit.

Tonight, I finally removed the Jot+DAC from my desk and replaced it with the Element as my primary listening amp. I'm saddened and disappointed by this very expensive mistake.

The headphones I used were:
Sony MDR-7506
Audio-Technica ath-m50x
Shure SRH-840
AKG K7xx
Sennheiser HD650

The only headphone that sounded good with the Jot+DAC was the AKG K7xx because the soundstage of the headphones were so unbelievably wide it countered the closed-in-ness of the Jot+DAC.

In conclusion, I would recommend the Jot only w/o the DAC, but I would highly recommend the JDS Labs Element. Now, I need to figure out whether to sell the Jot+DAC or just use it in a secondary listening station.


----------



## DavidA

@Peter Ong, while I only had the Jot (amp only) for 2 weeks to me it was great with the HD650 but with other headphones like the HD800, HD700, T1g1 and HE560 the Jot was just too bright for me.  I also have the K7XX, M50x and MDR-7506 but never tried them with the Jot since they are pretty good without an amp.  My suggestion is if you like the HD650 + Jot (amp) pairing then I'd get another DAC that you like but if other headphones are in your future then I would sell the Jot/DAC combo and start looking at headphones you would like and see what amps are recommended for them.


----------



## Peter Ong

DavidA said:


> @Peter Ong, while I only had the Jot (amp only) for 2 weeks to me it was great with the HD650 but with other headphones like the HD800, HD700, T1g1 and HE560 the Jot was just too bright for me.  I also have the K7XX, M50x and MDR-7506 but never tried them with the Jot since they are pretty good without an amp.  My suggestion is if you like the HD650 + Jot (amp) pairing then I'd get another DAC that you like but if other headphones are in your future then I would sell the Jot/DAC combo and start looking at headphones you would like and see what amps are recommended for them.



Hi DavidA,

I tried all my headphones just because they were there. Although my lower impedance phones did not require amplification, their sound benefited from the extra power. The sound became "fuller". The most marked improvement was the Shure SRH-840, but I digress. This is about the Jot+DAC and how the DAC is a ripoff by Schiit.

Peter


----------



## DavidA

Peter Ong said:


> Hi DavidA,
> 
> I tried all my headphones just because they were there. Although my lower impedance phones did not require amplification, their sound benefited from the extra power. The sound became "fuller". The most marked improvement was the Shure SRH-840, but I digress. This is about the Jot+DAC and how the DAC is a ripoff by Schiit.
> 
> Peter


Hard to believe the DAC in the Jot is that bad, I have a Modi2uber which uses the same 4490 chip but I find it quite good, not a very noticeable difference to my Bifrost MB to some and almost as good as my Bifrost uber.  I usually use my MDR-7506, M50x and V-Moda XS with a Fiio X3 or X3ii but at times have used them on my main system with a Ember, Lyr2 and the headphone output of a UD-301 and didn't notice any difference or the "fuller" sound


----------



## rkw

Peter Ong said:


> This is about the Jot+DAC and how the DAC is a ripoff by Schiit.


A ripoff? Which $100 DAC are you comparing it to?


----------



## Byronb

You may not like the sound, but I would have to agree with rkw, "ripoff" is a little over the top.


----------



## Tuneslover

Why don't you physically remove the DAC from the Jot and run it without a DAC?  Sell the DAC.  If you liked how your Jot sounded with the Bimby then get one, or better still the better value Mimby.  I have the Shure 840's but I haven't actually tried it with my Jot (amp only) + Bimby.  However I will check it out.


----------



## Tuneslover

Tuneslover said:


> Why don't you physically remove the DAC from the Jot and run it without a DAC?  Sell the DAC.  If you liked how your Jot sounded with the Bimby then get one, or better still the better value Mimby.  I have the Shure 840's but I haven't actually tried it with my Jot (amp only) + Bimby.  However I will check it out.



I have been listening to the Shure 840's for about a half an hour or so and sampled some Jazz and Rock music and they do sound quite good fed by the Jot+Bimby.  I just switched over to the HD650's and there's really no comparison to my ears in that the 650's blow the 840's out of the water.


----------



## onsionsi

I don't if Jot. will have Gen5


----------



## Mirakoolz

Can anyone recommend a aesthetically matching desktop power amp to sit under the Jot. looking at adding passive desktop (hifi) speakers.
Does Schiit have a similar solution in the pipeline? it'll be a great setup for Vinyl listeners as they already have a phono stage for the jot


----------



## cskippy

Something like this might be good.

https://www.amazon.com/NuPrime-Inte...rd_wg=OyTpo&psc=1&refRID=QFSR6RXM4VPDF7MR58ZG


----------



## Mirakoolz

Thanks for that.
i was thinking something much more plain. a simple power amp without any extras - not even a volume knob (maybe a rear gain switch)


----------



## cskippy

I got to try Vidar and Saga (which has the same footprint as Jot) and it worked pretty well.  Of course Vidar is huge in comparison but it has good quality sound.


----------



## ToddRaymond

Yeah, I'd just get a Vidar instead of that NuPrime thing.  Why double up on a DAC and volume control (and why pay more).  The Vidar sounds fantastic.  Hopefully Schiit will release a smaller/less powerful 'pivot point' amp (mini Vidar).


----------



## cskippy

Jason was talking about a Jot sized mini power amp with the Pivot Point technology but wasn't sure there would be enough demand to be worth while.  It would be interesting none the less.


----------



## tuna47

Anyone using Jot with the he1000


----------



## dr cornelius

Mirakoolz said:


> Can anyone recommend a aesthetically matching desktop power amp to sit under the Jot. looking at adding passive desktop (hifi) speakers.
> Does Schiit have a similar solution in the pipeline? it'll be a great setup for Vinyl listeners as they already have a phono stage for the jot



The only thing I can think of is the half-sized amps from Parasound:  https://we.tl/oq9l3R4li3 

IME the cool thing about the Jot is it’s balanced, so another route would be using powered monitors.   I hooked up  a small pair of Genelecs from the XLR outputs  of a Jot and it's a _great_ sounding desktop system!


----------



## GearMe

The Emotiva BasX A-100 doesn't fit the half-size criteria but is a solid desktop speaker amp (50 wpc) for $229 and it also allows you to direct the full power to the headphone jack which is useful for hard to power cans like the HE-6.


----------



## joeexp

Mirakoolz said:


> Can anyone recommend a aesthetically matching desktop power amp to sit under the Jot. looking at adding passive desktop (hifi) speakers.
> Does Schiit have a similar solution in the pipeline? it'll be a great setup for Vinyl listeners as they already have a phono stage for the jot



http://www.schiit.com/products/vidar


----------



## ntbm3

Hey Guys, I have a new pair of CIEM's JHPRO 16v2. They sound great on my current set-up of Bimby USB5/Asgard (original).

But... but... I am living in the very low end of the volume range due to no high/low gain. So the channel level gets imbalanced at lower listening levels. Kind of annoying...

So, I want to get a new amp and I am between the Jot and the Asgard II... anyone compare them? Worth spending the extra cash on the Jot?? 

Any thoughts would be great, thanks!


----------



## cskippy

I haven't heard the Asgard 2 but the Jot has an excellent volume pot and as quiet a noise floor as anything I've heard even with IEMs.


----------



## DavidA

ntbm3 said:


> Hey Guys, I have a new pair of CIEM's JHPRO 16v2. They sound great on my current set-up of Bimby USB5/Asgard (original).
> 
> But... but... I am living in the very low end of the volume range due to no high/low gain. So the channel level gets imbalanced at lower listening levels. Kind of annoying...
> 
> ...


I haven't really used the low gain mode on my Asgard2 but with very efficient headphones it does help with getting some play in the volume control.  Another option maybe to use a Schiit SYS between the Bimby and Asgard to lower the signal level.  I have 2 SYS boxes but I use them in reverse to switch between different DACs.


----------



## gmahler2u

I had asgard 1, I didn't really like it with my hd800. However, jot is different story...love at first sight!!!! It sparkling my hd800.  Of course,  it's pairing with him bimby.  I would suggest stick with jot!!!


----------



## ToddRaymond (Aug 29, 2017)

My Asgard 2, Lyr 2, and Vali 2 were all great with my rather revealing Kaede II IEMs.  Sorry, but the Jotunheim is one of the only Schiit amps I've yet to hear.  I imagine it would be über quiet and clear though.


----------



## earnmyturns

ntbm3 said:


> So, I want to get a new amp and I am between the Jot and the Asgard II... anyone compare them? Worth spending the extra cash on the Jot??


Hard to say. I've owned both, Jot most recently, but I never listened to either with CIEMS, only with a variety of closed-back phones (Shure SRH1540, MrSpeakers Alpha Prime, MrSpeakers Ether C Flow, MrSpeakers Æon). The main reason I got the Jot was for balanced out with the C Flows, but it also find they are slightly cleaner on the higher piano notes. But for single-ended use if cost is an issue, A2 is a great deal.


----------



## cocolinho

dr cornelius said:


> IME the cool thing about the Jot is it’s balanced, so another route would be using powered monitors.   I hooked up  a small pair of Genelecs from the XLR outputs  of a Jot and it's a _great_ sounding desktop system!


Just a short question. How do you switch from powered speakers to headphones output? The switch on the front panel?
THanks


----------



## cskippy

All outputs are active at all times.  The switch is for input select: Top=USB or Phono card, Middle=balanced input, Bottom=single ended input.  Gain switch on the right Top=High Bottom=Low.


----------



## rkw

cocolinho said:


> Just a short question. How do you switch from powered speakers to headphones output?


All outputs are always active. You need to disconnect or power off what you don't want.


----------



## cocolinho

ok thank you both. So it won't solve my issue since I have JBL 305 without remote. I would need to unplug RCA or power off my Speakers when I use my headphones. Already the case with my Ifi Micro IDSD


----------



## cskippy

Put your speakers on a separate power strip that's within easy reach.  That's what I do with my sub and power amp for my speakers.  Easy peasy!


----------



## Tuneslover

A bit more of an expensive solution that I use is a Schiit SYS which allows me to toggle between headphone and powered speakers.


----------



## Decommo

cskippy said:


> Put your speakers on a separate power strip that's within easy reach.  That's what I do with my sub and power amp for my speakers.  Easy peasy!



Is it safe to turn off the power strip instead of switch at the back of each power monitor? i am keen to go for this path and a bit concern turn on and off from external power strip.


----------



## dr cornelius

cocolinho said:


> Just a short question. How do you switch from powered speakers to headphones output? The switch on the front panel?
> THanks


There’s no switch to toggle between speakers and headphones, and plugging in ‘phones does not mute the outputs.  Everything is always “on” - so when I go back and forth and need to turn something off, I power down my speakers, or unplug my headphones.  Hope that helps...


----------



## rkw

Tuneslover said:


> A bit more of an expensive solution that I use is a Schiit SYS which allows me to toggle between headphone and powered speakers.


I can't picture it. How it is connected to the Jotunheim?


----------



## jnak00

rkw said:


> I can't picture it. How it is connected to the Jotunheim?



You could go Jot->SYS->Speakers.  If you don't want the speakers on, just change the SYS to the unused input.


----------



## Tuneslover

rkw said:


> I can't picture it. How it is connected to the Jotunheim?



Analog output from Bimby into SYS (labelled output on the SYS).  Output 1 from SYS (labelled input on SYS) to powered speakers input.  Output 2 from SYS (labelled input on SYS) to Jotunheim intput.

When I toggle the SYS to the Jotunheim naturally it receives the signal and allows me to listen via headphones.

I have Paradigm Shift powered speakers which automatically shuts down the speakers whenever there is no signal being received.  Therefore, when the SYS is toggled to the Jotunheim no signal is being received by the powered speakers which after a pre-determined time puts them into sleep mode.  Whenever I switch the SYS to speakers the speakers are awaken and outputs the sound through them.


----------



## sup27606 (Sep 6, 2017)

I have been listening to the Senn 6XX through the Mimby+Jot combo balanced, and always felt that the bass was a little loose and imaging/layering of instruments was somewhat messy. I recently got the Audeze EL-8O (latest version) and tried it with the Jot/Mimby. It sounded so much better than the 6XX! I understand, the 6XX are darker with more bass, but the EL-8 bass was more controlled and textured, and most notable was the instrument separation and imaging. They felt so much more realistic. First I thought, it may be the new headphone effect, so I listened for several days on both headphones, and my opinion remains the same. Is this a common experience? I have read in multiple places that the 6XX and Jot are an ideal pairing, but I feel the EL-8 sounds more superior and engaging. I understand the planar vs dynamic difference and that planar drivers will produce more slam/impact and good imaging, but I didn't expect such a huge difference with the 6XX, specially after reading the rave reviews. I am even wondering whether my 6XX could have some defect.


----------



## captkirk

Are you running a balanced cable on the HD6XX?  From my experience, the Senn sings with the extra power.


----------



## sup27606

captkirk said:


> Are you running a balanced cable on the HD6XX?  From my experience, the Senn sings with the extra power.



Yes, balanced using this cable.


----------



## captkirk

Well, everyone likes different things.  Perhaps dynamics, or specifically, the HD6XX isn't for you.  No worries.  You're enjoying the EL-8.

For me, the pairing is near ideal.  The Jot, with its clean ample power really brings out my non-modded HD6XX and while, I'm not super excited about its forward staging, I love its drive and low noise floor.


----------



## sup27606

captkirk said:


> Well, everyone likes different things.  Perhaps dynamics, or specifically, the HD6XX isn't for you.  No worries.  You're enjoying the EL-8.
> 
> For me, the pairing is near ideal.  The Jot, with its clean ample power really brings out my non-modded HD6XX and while, I'm not super excited about its forward staging, I love its drive and low noise floor.



Probably thats what it is. I am still holding on to the 6XX though. I like its smoothness with certain soundtracks. Also looking forward to trying it with some OTL amps like BH crack. Since you have heard this pairing (6XX + Jot), let me ask you, do you have any problem locating individual instruments or feel the background instruments are somewhat smeared into the forward instruments? BTW, I like the vocals with the 6XX, specially the weight in female voices.


----------



## captkirk

sup27606 said:


> ...do you have any problem locating individual instruments or feel the background instruments are somewhat smeared into the forward instruments?



I wouldn't say so... at least not now.

When I first started listening to the Jot, I was a bit taken aback by it's staging.  Coming from a Magni2U, I discovered that I had an appreciation for a little more laid-back sound.  Between the two, the Magni is a little more relaxed, while the Jot is ready to put everything right in your face.  Initially, I felt put-off by its presentation, but the more I listened to it, the more accustomed to its behavior.

The imaging of the pair is near 3D for me now.  While the stage may not be very wide, I certainly can delineate instruments and separate vocalists.

ps. 

One other thing that I'd recommend is leaving the JOT and Mimby on 24/7.  Both mellow out being supplied power ALL THE TIME.


----------



## sup27606

Thanks for the feedback. I think I will listen to both headphones a bit longer before coming to any conclusion. May be, its my subjective preference for a more treble rich sound of the EL-8. I do keep the Mimby and the Jot on all the time.


----------



## DoubleIPA

Joining the Jotunheim users and awaiting my unit. I've read both good and bad on this unit, but it's my first usb headphone dac and not sure what to expect. I chose Jotunheim over other solutions because I also plan to run some Concentric 8 speakers whenever I decide to buy an amp. 

Cheers!

Peter


----------



## sup27606

captkirk said:


> I wouldn't say so... at least not now.
> 
> When I first started listening to the Jot, I was a bit taken aback by it's staging.  Coming from a Magni2U, I discovered that I had an appreciation for a little more laid-back sound.  Between the two, the Magni is a little more relaxed, while the Jot is ready to put everything right in your face.  Initially, I felt put-off by its presentation, but the more I listened to it, the more accustomed to its behavior.
> 
> ...



I want to follow up on the issues I mentioned with the Senn HD6XX. Previously I had been using a Raspberry Pi music server and feeding the digital signal to the Mimby through the USB. Doing that, the 6XX sounded muddy where the bass was interfering with the lower mids and imaging was somewhat blurry. Today I upgraded the RPI with a Hifiberry DIGI+ Board which bypasses the USB and delivers digital audio signal through a coaxial port. Using this, I see a dramatic improvement in the sound of the 6XX. the soundstage has improved, the bass is more controlled, and there is more resolution overall. It really sounds like a hifi headphone now. Interestingly, the improvements with the Audeze EL-8 were minimal compared to the 6XX. The EL-8 already sounded great through the USB, may be there's some improvement in the soundstage and less harshness of the treble. I am surprised, the 6XX is this sensitive to the source, and happy that I don't have to sell it off anymore.


----------



## Metron

Allanmarcus said:


> Correct.
> 
> I too have the UDA-1, which unfortunately has a very mediocre rated DAC (not sure why you think the UDA-1 DAC is highly rated, unless you are reading Sony press releases). The UDA-1 is very rolled off and warm, so I'm thinking the Jot's ability to punch out the detail might be a good combo. I'm just afraid the UDA is not only rolled off, but not very detailed, so the ability of the Jot to punch out some detail when the DAC is not providing it is not possible. What hi-fi recommends not using the USB on the UDA-1 and that the other inputs are better on this amp, so maybe I'll try those.
> 
> ...



I beg to differ. I have found Sony's UDA-1 DAC (i.e., excluding the amp) combined with the Beyerdynamic A20 outputs a truly superior signal in terms of detail, stage and depth. I have compared it to the super powerful combo Yggdrasil + WA22 (SE) and found it to be worst (of course) but holding up far better than other offerings. It has been noted though by What HiFi that USB input is UDA-1's weakness so avoid using it; optical or coaxial is the way to go.


----------



## captkirk

sup27606 said:


> I want to follow up on the issues I mentioned with the Senn HD6XX. Previously I had been using a Raspberry Pi music server and feeding the digital signal to the Mimby through the USB. Doing that, the 6XX sounded muddy where the bass was interfering with the lower mids and imaging was somewhat blurry. Today I upgraded the RPI with a Hifiberry DIGI+ Board which bypasses the USB and delivers digital audio signal through a coaxial port. Using this, I see a dramatic improvement in the sound of the 6XX. the soundstage has improved, the bass is more controlled, and there is more resolution overall. It really sounds like a hifi headphone now. Interestingly, the improvements with the Audeze EL-8 were minimal compared to the 6XX. The EL-8 already sounded great through the USB, may be there's some improvement in the soundstage and less harshness of the treble. I am surprised, the 6XX is this sensitive to the source, and happy that I don't have to sell it off anymore.



Good to hear.  The HD6x0 series seems to scale very well.  Even source components can make appreciable gains


----------



## Josh Englert (Sep 13, 2017)

Turdski said:


> Yeah, I'd just get a Vidar instead of that NuPrime thing.  Why double up on a DAC and volume control (and why pay more).  The Vidar sounds fantastic.  Hopefully Schiit will release a smaller/less powerful 'pivot point' amp (mini Vidar).


I'd buy a mini Vidar... Vidar is more than enough power for the Elac UB5s I plan on pairing with it....when I can afford it sometime next year, maybe tax return season.


----------



## Allanmarcus (Sep 13, 2017)

Metron said:


> I beg to differ. I have found Sony's UDA-1 DAC (i.e., excluding the amp) combined with the Beyerdynamic A20 outputs a truly superior signal in terms of detail, stage and depth. I have compared it to the super powerful combo Yggdrasil + WA22 (SE) and found it to be worst (of course) but holding up far better than other offerings. It has been noted though by What HiFi that USB input is UDA-1's weakness so avoid using it; optical or coaxial is the way to go.


OK, you made be go back and check. I compared the Sony UDA-1 vs a Bimby gen 2. Both USB. Amps is a MJ2, Headphones: utopia. The sony holds up pretty well. Hard for me to tell the difference, although I would say the Sony is a teeny tiny bit warmer. The Bimby might be a little faster; a little more definition per note, but tiny.
A little more listening with classical, and the sony just doesn't quite resolve as well as the Bimby.
I'm not gonna sell my Bimby and just use the Sony, but if I had to, I could live with the Sony.

That said, I'm very much debating a Gumby


----------



## Metron (Sep 13, 2017)

Allanmarcus said:


> OK, you made be go back and check. I compared the Sony UDA-1 vs a Bimby gen 2. Both USB. Amps is a MJ2, Headphones: utopia. The sony holds up pretty well. Hard for me to tell the difference, although I would say the Sony is a teeny tiny bit warmer. The Bimby might be a little faster; a little more definition per note, but tiny.
> A little more listening with classical, and the sony just doesn't quite resolve as well as the Bimby.
> I'm not gonna sell my Bimby and just use the Sony, but if I had to, I could live with the Sony.
> 
> That said, I'm very much debating a Gumby



Yes, I think (although haven't auditioned myself) that the UDA-1 is at the level of Bifrost MB. However, I have compared my set up (UDA-1 + Beyerdynamic A20) with a Simaudio Moon Neo 230HAD (DAC only use) + Valhalla 2 (stock) using both a Beyerdynamic T1 Gen2 and a Sony Z1R and found the latter dac-amp set up grossly inferior. Not sure if it's because of the Schiit amp or the (very expensive) Moon (probably the former) but, at any rate, the overall contrast between the two set ups was very strong. The fact that I auditioned Yggdrasil + WA22 (SE) and found the UDA-1 + Beyerdynamic A20 combo to follow at a pretty decent level, it would be a fairly good educated guess to assume that a Gumby will be not far better at all than a UDA-1.


----------



## Reiven

I'm owning AEON with Jotunheim. 
Do I benefit anything from better DAC if I'm listening only Spotify Premium? 
If I'm correct the Jotunheim does not have ASIO drivers for WIN10. 
Although Spotify can't t use Asio/Wasabi. If I'm correct Tidal(premium) uses wasabi.


----------



## drwlf

Reiven said:


> I'm owning AEON with Jotunheim.
> Do I benefit anything from better DAC if I'm listening only Spotify Premium?
> If I'm correct the Jotunheim does not have ASIO drivers for WIN10.
> Although Spotify can't t use Asio/Wasabi. If I'm correct Tidal(premium) uses wasabi.


You can toggle the options from Tidal, and not from Spotify as it doesn't support ASIO/WASAPI.
A better DAC can be a benefit, even with Spotify's quality.
The wasabi typo is hilarious as well!


----------



## Reiven (Sep 15, 2017)

drwlf said:


> You can toggle the options from Tidal, and not from Spotify as it doesn't support ASIO/WASAPI.
> A better DAC can be a benefit, even with Spotify's quality.
> The wasabi typo is hilarious as well!


God damn. I must learn not to drink beer and write to forums.
Here is photo of my wasabi driver.


----------



## xLoud

Can anyone share a comparison between ifi micro idsd and jotunheim? I am using HE-400i, next upgrade is going to be LCD2 or Beyer T1


----------



## joeexp

Metron said:


> Yes, I think (although haven't auditioned myself) that the UDA-1 is at the level of Bifrost MB.....



That's the problem with thinking. You really should audtion gear, before making comments about their sound quality.


----------



## 394216

Anyone can compare the Jot and the Soloist SL? I have the burson and I wanna know if it will be an upgrade.


----------



## elucidate

Anyone compare the jot/bifrost mb to the HDVD800? I ask because I found a good deal HDVD800 (near mint condition) - that's listed for $1300. The second solution is the jotunhiem/bifrost multibit stack which comes to about $1200 before shipping costs. Is one inherently superior here?


----------



## sup27606 (Sep 16, 2017)

It depends on the headphone too. I auditioned both the HDVD800 and the Jotunheim at one of the Canjams. The HDVD800 had a lot of bass with the Sennheiser 6XX, while the 800S sounded more neutral. With the Jotunheim (don't know which DAC, but was one of Schiit's), 6XX had a lot less bass (but NOT inadequate bass) than the HDVD800. The HDVD800 sounded quite bass heavy with the 6XX. As far as I know, the HDVD800 pairs well with the Sennheiser 800s and given the extended treble of the 800S, this amp probably reinforces the low end. Hence, IMO, it would be more suited for bright phones. Jot with the Bimby on the other hand is more neutral (with some warmth in the vocals), and is therefore suitable for a wider range of headphones.

I use the Jot at home in conjunction with the Mimby, and it sounds great with the 6XX (provided the source is clean) and Audeze EL-8. I have heard, it pairs well with the LCD-2 as well. Oh, the Schiit stack will occupy less desk area than the HDVD800.

BTW, Jot + Bimby new comes down to $1000 ($400 + $600).

Enjoying Cat Stevens' new album 'The Laughing Apple' through the Mimby+Jot+6XX. Ethereal!


----------



## elucidate

I probably should've mentioned that I'm using the HD800S as my daily drivers. The jot likely wouldn't be ideal then, eh?

Cheers


----------



## Metron

joeexp said:


> That's the problem with thinking. You really should audtion gear, before making comments about their sound quality.


You really should not police people's opinion but equally be sceptical on people who audition units and still post grossly inaccurate conclusions about them.


----------



## cskippy

@elucidate I would get Eitr if you are using USB from computer, Mimby, and Vali 2.  Eitr will work with any future DAC, Mimby is on the warmer side for crap DACs and will work well with HD800 and Vali 2 is a serious underdog.  It has better slam than Vahalla 2 and is warmer and more easy going than Jot which will be a benefit for HD800S.  If the sound appeals to you start saving up, you'll have to spend a lot more to improve from there.


----------



## joeexp (Sep 16, 2017)

Metron said:


> You really should not police people's opinion but equally be sceptical on people who audition units and still post grossly inaccurate conclusions about them.



Nothing to do with policing!
I can't let you get away with stating BS unchallenged. You are posting grossly inaccurate conclusions without auditioning.

Why?

Your clueless comments are not helping anybody!


----------



## elucidate (Sep 16, 2017)

@cskippy


Hmm, alright. I guess there seems to be somewhat of a SQ plateau then regarding schiits mid tier offerings. I think I'll likely go the mjolnir 2/mimby route for now. Later on when funds permit I'll upgrade the dac.

Thank you, sir!


----------



## cskippy

No problem.   Mjolnir 2 is good.  To get the most out of it you'll need a balanced cable for your HD800S.


----------



## Metron (Sep 16, 2017)

joeexp said:


> Nothing to do with policing!
> I can't let you get away with stating BS unchallenged. You are posting grossly inaccurate conclusions without auditioning.
> 
> Why?
> ...


And you are? The people's advocate? The measure of headfi methodology? Get a life. And while you're at it, learn to read English: I did not "conclude" anything. I'm having a conversation with an interested party and it's none of your business, apparently, so since not interested in my views you'd better stop posting fascist comments on my messages as you are already in my "ignore" list, to put it politely...


----------



## joeexp

Metron said:


> And you are? The people's advocate? The measure of headfi methodology? Get a life. And while you're at it, learn to read English: I did not "conclude" anything. I'm having a conversation with an interested party and it's none of your business, apparently, so since not interested in my views you'd better stop posting fascist comments on my messages as you are already in my "ignore" list, to put it politely...



just keep on digging!


----------



## GearMe

joeexp said:


> Nothing to do with policing!
> I can't let you get away with stating BS unchallenged. *You are posting grossly inaccurate conclusions* without auditioning.
> Why?  Your clueless comments are not helping anybody!


Since you obviously own/auditioned the gear being discussed (really no other way to judge his comments to be _grossly_ inaccurate), I think it would more be helpful to offer _your_ listening experiences regarding the gear instead of just railing on another Head-Fi member.  This approach would add value to the thread and model the behavior that you're looking for.


----------



## joeexp (Sep 16, 2017)

GearMe said:


> Since you obviously own/auditioned the gear being discussed (really no other way to judge his comments to be _grossly_ inaccurate), I think it would more be helpful to offer _your_ listening experiences regarding the gear instead of just railing on another Head-Fi member.  This approach would add value to the thread and model the behavior that you're looking for.


*
"grossly inaccurate conclusions" *- his words not mine...

However comparing Sony's UDA-1with the Bimby is like comparing Apples to Oranges [I have owned the Bimby and audtioned the UDA-1].
For starters, the Bifrost Muitlbit [Bimby] is a multibit DAC only, the Sony UDA-1 is a USB DAC/Headphone amplifier that uses a standard PCM1795 Delta-Sigma converter.
The are not even playing in the same league.

To cut a long story short, the UDA-1 sucks as DAC, but even more so as a Headphone Amp (2 x LM2876 amplifiers). The Headphone Amp section is just dull, boring and lacks rythm.
If you can tolerate Delta-Sigma DACs and are looking for something in the under $500 range, order a LH Labs GO2A with a balanced cable.

The Sony UDA-1 is overpriced and overrated.


----------



## Swiftfalcon (Sep 16, 2017)

xLoud said:


> Can anyone share a comparison between ifi micro idsd and jotunheim? I am using HE-400i, next upgrade is going to be LCD2 or Beyer T1


Since no one has replied to your query, I would like to mention couple things about schiit jotunheim and ifi micro Ican se (xbass, 3D on max which is how I always listen). Listening to both through an otherwise similar chain, ifi micro Ican se sounds clean, has a massive bass and has a whopping amount of power through its only output- a single ended headphone out. The jotunheim sounds grainy with casual listen but a critical comparison of similar passages reveals it delivers bit more details than Ican se. Bass is solid but doesn't reach the level or extension of Ican se, especially sub bass. Soundstage is very similar but jotunheim enables better imaging. Ican se sounds like everything is pushed out far with nothing in between, whereas jotunheim has layers  of sound from your ears to out far. Neither gives much depth or height imo. All the above is through single ended output of jotunheim.

It couldn't AB balanced output of jotunheim and single ended of Ican se, but going from single ended to balanced on jotunheim seems to open up the soundstage more and define the imaging better. It also gets cleaner, and I m pretty sure no details are lost. And of course it's a touch louder at same gain and volume pot position.

I have never heard the ifi micro idsd but thought my listening experience with ican se would help.


----------



## GearMe (Sep 17, 2017)

joeexp said:


> However comparing Sony's UDA-1with the Bimby is like comparing Apples to Oranges [I have owned the Bimby and audtioned the UDA-1].
> For starters, the Bifrost Muitlbit [Bimby] is a multibit DAC only, the Sony UDA-1 is a USB DAC/Headphone amplifier that uses a standard PCM1795 Delta-Sigma converter.
> The are not even playing in the same league.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the quick summary of their spec sheets! 

But..._*how would you characterize the sonic differences*_ between the Bimby and the UDA-1's DAC (not the DAC/Amp together)?    BTW, speaking of Apples to Apples/Oranges, did you listen to the UDA-1 DAC independently (i.e. not through the Sony's amp and also through the same amp that you used with your Bimby)?


For reference...below are two other opinions that _do_ offer some sonic comparisons.  _*Saying a DAC 'sucks' offers no value to a discussion...imo*_

Metron
I beg to differ. I have found Sony's UDA-1 DAC (i.e., excluding the amp) combined with the Beyerdynamic A20 outputs a truly superior signal in terms of detail, stage and depth. I have compared it to the super powerful combo Yggdrasil + WA22 (SE) and found it to be worst (of course) but *holding up far better than other offerings*. It has been noted though by What HiFi that USB input is UDA-1's weakness so avoid using it; optical or coaxial is the way to go.

Allanmarcus
OK, you made be go back and check. I compared the Sony UDA-1 vs a Bimby gen 2. Both USB. Amps is a MJ2, Headphones: utopia. The *sony holds up pretty well*. Hard for me to tell the difference, although I would say the Sony is a teeny tiny bit warmer. The Bimby might be a little faster; a little more definition per note, but tiny.
A little more listening with classical, and the sony just doesn't quite resolve as well as the Bimby.
I'm not gonna sell my Bimby and just use the Sony, but if I had to, I could live with the Sony.

Both seem to think the UDA-1 DAC...'holds up well/far better'...even when using USB input in Allanmarcus's case; which is called out as the weak link in the UDA-1's inputs by WhatHiFi


----------



## joeexp (Sep 17, 2017)

GearMe said:


> For reference...below are two other opinions that _do_ offer some sonic comparisons.  _*Saying a DAC 'sucks' offers no value to a discussion...imo*_
> 
> Metron
> I beg to differ. I have found Sony's UDA-1 DAC (i.e., excluding the amp) combined with the Beyerdynamic A20 outputs a truly superior signal in terms of detail, stage and depth. I have compared it to the super powerful combo Yggdrasil + WA22 (SE) and found it to be worst (of course) but *holding up far better than other offerings*. It has been noted though by What HiFi that USB input is UDA-1's weakness so avoid using it; optical or coaxial is the way to go.
> ...



Personal DAC preferences are very specific. Needless to say that component synergy will play an important role also.
My 'reference' system for the test at the time were: Schiit Bimby and LHLabs GO2A with CA Carbon (original version) and the Jotunheim as Amps; (Didn't bother much with internal UDA-1 amp).

The UDA-1 lacks overall refinement with a little treble coarseness, very similar to D/S DACs in the same price range. Decent resolution, decent tone, but somewhat flat and lacking in dynamics.
The sound seems dependent very much upon the quality of the USB source. Perhaps a Schiit EITR would help.

The Schiit Bifrost Multibit DAC just adds an immersive character and depth to the listening experience which make it sound so much more real. 
If you like Multibit DACs, the Bimby is not a bad choice as It stacks nicely with the Jotunheim.
YMMV.


----------



## GearMe

joeexp said:


> Personal DAC preferences are very specific. Needless to say that component synergy will play an important role also.
> My 'reference' system for the test at the time were: Schiit Bimby and LHLabs GO2A with CA Carbon (original version) and the Jotunheim as Amps; (Didn't bother much with internal UDA-1 amp).
> 
> The UDA-1 lacks overall refinement with a little treble coarseness, very similar to D/S DACs in the same price range. Decent resolution, decent tone, but somewhat flat and lacking in dynamics.
> ...



Thanks. Helpful insight.

My views on these two DACs align more with Metron, Allanmarcus, WhatHiFi, etc. than yours -- especially when using just the UDA-1's DAC w/Coax input (no Eitr needed).   But as you said...ymmv!

As far as Apples & Oranges go, many Head-Fiers got the UDA-1 for $200 NIB on sale through Woot or paid even less for it used making it truly an Apples/Oranges comparison.  To me, the combination of functionality and sound for this price is simply untouchable.  The UDA-1 serves as a remote-controlled, integrated amp powering some near-field bookshelfs, as a DAC/AMP for headphones, and also as a standalone DAC w/Coax, Optical, & USB...including DSD if you use it.

On the Schiity side of the coin, I paid $600 for my Bimby -- totally devalued (imo) by the intro of the Mimby ($249).  That said, it looks better with my Valhalla 2 than a Mimby would...which, of course, is all that matters.  Seriously though, my home Schiit Stack does sound nice especially w/Senns & Beyers thanks primarily to the Valhalla 2. 

I get the multibit 'excitement'.  However, I haven't drank the Schiit Koolaid as much as many on Head-Fi have.  You know the type, they spend all their time on Jason & Mike's respective threads fawning over them, begging for updates on the next product release, etc.  Schiit makes some good sounding gear, at a fair price, in the USA.  All plusses in my book.  But, I don't automatically assume their Schiit doesn't stink.  

Given your mix of equipment, I'm guessing you feel similarly.  I suppose I might feel different about their multibit dacs if I had sprung for the Gumby/Yggy out of the gate.   People say there is a noticeable difference between them and the Bimby; expect I'll upgrade down the road and find out!

However, my multibit upgrade keeps getting pushed out by other things I'd like to try.  Am currently looking at upgrading my work Schiit Stack (Modi/Magni)...which is ok, not awesome, for $200 (a tad harsh sounding...tbh).  I like the UDA-1 dac/amp (using coax) better.  If I didn't use the UDA-1 for my home near-field amp as well as the DAC for my ESP-950's, I'd just gift my original Schiit Stack to a friend and move the UDA-1 to work. 

But alas, I must buy more equipment and am looking at the Massdrop Cavalli LCX vs the Jotunheim.  The $100 savings and an entry-level view into the Cavalli sound is very tempting but I doubt I'll be able to hold out for the 5 month wait and will end up going with the Jot...even though my guess is the Jot is a slightly harsher/less organic sound signature than the Cavalli.


----------



## earnmyturns

GearMe said:


> I doubt I'll be able to hold out for the 5 month wait and will end up going with the Jot...even though my guess is the Jot is a slightly harsher/less organic sound signature than the Cavalli.


My Cavalli vs Schiit experience: I had the Liquid Carbon 2.0 on order and being repeatedly delayed when the Jot was announced. Got the Jot and listened to it for a couple of months before the long-delayed LC 2.0 showed up. When I tested it, I found a noise problem with the volume pot, had to send it back for repair (which was less straightforward than it should have been). When I got it back, did extensive comparisons with the Jot, both fed by a Bimby. HT LC 2 was a bit warmer and satisfying on romantic classical and jazz, but it lacked the upper-range clarity and speed of the Jot on what I mostly listen to with headphones (modern jazz, modern classical, Renaissance and Baroque strings and voices, West African). Sold the LC 2.


----------



## GearMe

Thanks!  Seems like this is the general consensus.

Am a blues, jazz, classic rock, acoustic guitar, singer-songwriter, and big band listener for the most part with occasional bluegrass, chamber music, hip-hop, etc.   Would these preferred genres sway your thoughts at all for my use case?


----------



## earnmyturns (Sep 18, 2017)

GearMe said:


> Thanks!  Seems like this is the general consensus.
> 
> Am a blues, jazz, classic rock, acoustic guitar, singer-songwriter, and big band listener for the most part with occasional bluegrass, chamber music, hip-hop, etc.   Would these preferred genres sway your thoughts at all for my use case?


For jazz and acoustic guitar, I find the Jot's clean edges closer to my liking (I hear a lot of live jazz from front-row seats) than the LC 2's warmer but slightly fuzzier rendering. But you lose slightly on the lower end: LC is a bit fuller for double bass, for instance, but Jot is better defined. No big differences, but overall Jot did the job better for me than LC 2. Of course, now I'm listening to a Neurochrome HP-1 which is like a Jot with even better mid-upper definition and instrument separation for 3x more (I excuse this by driving a 10yo car ) And I don't know how the LCX (which uses a tube) compares with the LC 2.

*Update*: Correction, I mixed up the various Massdrop-Cavalli amps, the LCX is supposed to be close to the LC 2.


----------



## CarlosUnchained

earnmyturns said:


> And I don't know how the LCX (which uses a tube) compares with the LC 2.



Liquid Carbon X has no tubes. 
The Cavali Tube Hybrid has.


----------



## GearMe

earnmyturns said:


> For jazz and acoustic guitar, I find the Jot's clean edges closer to my liking (I hear a lot of live jazz from front-row seats) than the LC 2's warmer but slightly fuzzier rendering. But you lose slightly on the lower end: LC is a bit fuller for double bass, for instance, but Jot is better defined. No big differences, but overall Jot did the job better for me than LC 2. Of course, now I'm listening to a Neurochrome HP-1 which is like a Jot with even better mid-upper definition and instrument separation for 3x more (I excuse this by driving a 10yo car ) And I don't know how the LCX (which uses a tube) compares with the LC 2.


Thanks!


----------



## majo123

Hey guys I am considering buying a jot the 2 main headphones I will be using are fostex t50rp mk3 and some he 400i , i know for the the 400i that they don't need the power but more concerned on overall pairing of these 2 as I have read both can be a little bright.


----------



## Swiftfalcon

majo123 said:


> Hey guys I am considering buying a jot the 2 main headphones I will be using are fostex t50rp mk3 and some he 400i , i know for the the 400i that they don't need the power but more concerned on overall pairing of these 2 as I have read both can be a little bright.


I like the he400i with jot. Jot imparts to the 400i a much needed widening of soundstage and accuracy of imaging. I appreciate the treble as detailed yet smooth but I am treble insensitive in general. The bass is fast and light. Personally I prefer jot 400i pair as much as the venerable jot/hd650 pair.


----------



## GearMe

earnmyturns said:


> For jazz and acoustic guitar, I find the Jot's clean edges closer to my liking (I hear a lot of live jazz from front-row seats) than the LC 2's warmer but slightly fuzzier rendering. But you lose slightly on the lower end: LC is a bit fuller for double bass, for instance, but Jot is better defined. No big differences, but overall Jot did the job better for me than LC 2. Of course, now I'm listening to a Neurochrome HP-1 which is like a Jot with even better mid-upper definition and instrument separation for 3x more (I excuse this by driving a 10yo car ) And I don't know how the LCX (which uses a tube) compares with the LC 2.
> 
> *Update*: Correction, I mixed up the various Massdrop-Cavalli amps, the LCX is supposed to be close to the LC 2.



Well...another Schiit curve ball.  Magni 3 -- totally new, fully discrete, high-speed, dc-coupled, current-feedback design.  Per Jason, "Now, it sounded good, damn good. It had more power than Jotunheim’s single-ended outputs, and an overall warmer character."

Hopefully, just what the doctor ordered!  Bought this for now...

Will probably pass on the LCX; hate waiting for half a year.


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## Inoculator (Sep 20, 2017)

I recently became the owner of a Jot/Mimby combo in preparation for the HD 6XXs in December, and have been in love with it even with my 598s.

I have a quick question I am hoping you guys can help me with.

Background: My main listening area is via headphones in my office, so I keep my turntable in here as well. (Connected Mani->Sys->Jotunheim) So I can occasionally play records out to the living room, I have a 50ft RCA cable run under my house/in my crawl space that connects to the surround sound system out there. I already have seen big improvements with the sound on that system now that it is being fed by the Jotunheim pre-outs. (Was just running out of a Creative X-fi HD before)

Question: Would I see any benefit in that not ideal cable run by connecting to the XLR pre-outs on the Jotunheim? I realize it would not be balanced, as the cable would still have to terminate in RCAs to go into the system in the living room, but would there be improvements that would make it worth replacing the current 50ft RCA-RCA with a 50ft XLR-RCA?

Thanks in advance for your tips and suggestions, excited to join the ranks around here!


----------



## earnmyturns

GearMe said:


> Well...another Schiit curve ball.  Magni 3 -- totally new, fully discrete, high-speed, dc-coupled, current-feedback design.  Per Jason, "Now, it sounded good, damn good. It had more power than Jotunheim’s single-ended outputs, and an overall warmer character."
> 
> Hopefully, just what the doctor ordered!  Bought this for now...
> 
> Will probably pass on the LCX; hate waiting for half a year.


The Magni 3's warmer character might get it closer to LC's warmth relative to Jot, and for $99 you can't really go wrong


----------



## alpovs

Inoculator said:


> I recently became the owner of a Jot/Mimby combo in preparation for the HD 6XXs in December, and have been in love with it even with my 598s.
> 
> I have a quick question I am hoping you guys can help me with.
> 
> ...


Balanced cables allow for less interference over long runs. Some reading here and here. If you think you can improve on the quality of sound try running balanced. Theoretically it should be better but the question is if you notice it.


----------



## rkw

alpovs said:


> Balanced cables allow for less interference over long runs. Some reading here and here. If you think you can improve on the quality of sound try running balanced. *Theoretically it should be better* but the question is if you notice it.


Why is this theoretically better? He is asking about using the Jot's balanced outputs and connecting them to RCA inputs, so it wouldn't be a balanced connection.


----------



## Inoculator

rkw said:


> Why is this theoretically better? He is asking about using the Jot's balanced outputs and connecting them to RCA inputs, so it wouldn't be a balanced connection.


Yeah, my main concern is whether using the balanced outputs could potentially lead to better signal transmission over such a long cable run (50ft)


----------



## alpovs

rkw said:


> Why is this theoretically better? He is asking about using the Jot's balanced outputs and connecting them to RCA inputs, so it wouldn't be a balanced connection.





Inoculator said:


> Yeah, my main concern is whether using the balanced outputs could potentially lead to better signal transmission over such a long cable run (50ft)


It would be a balanced to single-ended connection. The signal will travel as balanced (6 wires XLR vs. 4 RCA) and convert to single ended at the end. It still will enhance resilience to interference on the way. Also the balanced output voltage is usually higher than SE. It will also help with interference.


----------



## Inoculator

alpovs said:


> It would be a balanced to single-ended connection. The signal will travel as balanced (6 wires XLR vs. 4 RCA) and convert to single ended at the end. It still will enhance resilience to interference on the way. Also the balanced output voltage is usually higher than SE. It will also help with interference.


Just the answer I was looking for, thanks.


----------



## jimmers

Inoculator said:


> Just the answer I was looking for, thanks.


Check
http://community.avid.com/forums/p/58612/328453.aspx
re: "Devices with *active-balanced* outputs"
balanced to unbalanced transformers might be the safest way at the unbalanced end.


----------



## nahpungnome

majo123 said:


> Hey guys I am considering buying a jot the 2 main headphones I will be using are fostex t50rp mk3 and some he 400i , i know for the the 400i that they don't need the power but more concerned on overall pairing of these 2 as I have read both can be a little bright.


I used my Jot with my 400i when I had them.  It was very harsh when I first powered up my Jot, but mellowed out quickly.  Only took about an hour or so for the harshness to subside...but it was still a bit too bright for my liking.  It took the treble to the upper limit of my comfort... I ended up giving my 400i and LD i+ setup to my brother.


----------



## majo123

nahpungnome said:


> I used my Jot with my 400i when I had them.  It was very harsh when I first powered up my Jot, but mellowed out quickly.  Only took about an hour or so for the harshness to subside...but it was still a bit too bright for my liking.  It took the treble to the upper limit of my comfort... I ended up giving my 400i and LD i+ setup to my brother.


Thanks for your views I have decided not to go down the jot road because of what you just described although appreciate all are not having the same findings.


----------



## nahpungnome

majo123 said:


> Thanks for your views I have decided not to go down the jot road because of what you just described although appreciate all are not having the same findings.


No problem, of course everybody's ears are different.  The Jot sounds great with my X2 and Elear though.


----------



## JoeKickass

I got the Jot when it first came out, it was great with my HD 600 but a few months later when I upgraded the HD 600 to balanced cables it really came alive!

It's been a year now and I _still _don't have the upgrade bug, IMO the Jotunheim is a keeper!


----------



## Letmebefrank

JoeKickass said:


> I got the Jot when it first came out, it was great with my HD 600 but a few months later when I upgraded the HD 600 to balanced cables it really came alive!
> 
> It's been a year now and I _still _don't have the upgrade bug, IMO the Jotunheim is a keeper!



Agreed, I love my Jotunheim and couldn't ask for a better amp for my HD650s. A BH Crack would be a fun companion amp for the Jot, something for when I want that extra warmth, but I'm not in a hurry to get one.


----------



## FLTWS

Your both correct.


----------



## wilflare

just so I'm not misreading... - there's no Gen5 USB in the Jot right?


----------



## nahpungnome

wilflare said:


> just so I'm not misreading... - there's no Gen5 USB in the Jot right?


Correct


----------



## benchan2

Hi All, does Jot also have the common problem of imbalance volume on low volume? Because sometimes I would want to use it with not just headphones but also iems. Thanks.


----------



## sup27606

benchan2 said:


> Hi All, does Jot also have the common problem of imbalance volume on low volume? Because sometimes I would want to use it with not just headphones but also iems. Thanks.



I haven't felt any volume imbalance at low volume. Also, IEMs should be used at low gain setting, so the volume won't be that low I believe.


----------



## cskippy

It's quite good with channel tracking.  I believe it uses a rather high end pot.  I've used IEMs with low gain and it's the quietest amp I've used by far that's not portable or lacking power.  I also listen at low volumes and usually have to use an airplane attenuator but not with Jot.


----------



## benchan2

cskippy said:


> It's quite good with channel tracking.  I believe it uses a rather high end pot.  I've used IEMs with low gain and it's the quietest amp I've used by far that's not portable or lacking power.  I also listen at low volumes and usually have to use an airplane attenuator but not with Jot.


Thanks, I also have to use airline attenuator on low gain when listening to iems. Now when I get my E-MU teak, I may also consider getting a Jot.


----------



## commtrd

elucidate said:


> @cskippy
> 
> 
> Hmm, alright. I guess there seems to be somewhat of a SQ plateau then regarding schiits mid tier offerings. I think I'll likely go the mjolnir 2/mimby route for now. Later on when funds permit I'll upgrade the dac.
> ...


Hmmm I am thinking the opposite. Such as go ahead and get the top of the line dac (Yggdrasil) and a good amp like a Magni or similar. OR I could just send in my old Mjolnir and have them refurbish it so there is that option.


----------



## Tuneslover

benchan2 said:


> Hi All, does Jot also have the common problem of imbalance volume on low volume? Because sometimes I would want to use it with not just headphones but also iems. Thanks.



IMO the volume control is one of the short-comings with the Magni amps of past (as well as the Vali 2).  Not the greatest at low volume listening due to imbalance.  On the other hand the Jot has an excellent volume knob that doesn't exhibit much if any channel imbalance.  In addition it's size and smooth operation really helps dial in precise volume setting.  My Project Ember has a terrific pot as well.  I believe a good volume pot is essential.


----------



## FLTWS

Tuneslover said:


> IMO the volume control is one of the short-comings with the Magni amps of past (as well as the Vali 2).  Not the greatest at low volume listening due to imbalance.  On the other hand the Jot has an excellent volume knob that doesn't exhibit much if any channel imbalance.  In addition it's size and smooth operation really helps dial in precise volume setting.  My Project Ember has a terrific pot as well.  I believe a good volume pot is essential.



My Jot tracks fine as well.


----------



## User00

Anround two weeks ago, in the aftermath of hurricane Harvey, my home experienced a power surge after which my jotunheim's dac stopped functioning. I had it connected to a wyrd and a everything was in a surge protector. Nothing but the jotunheim's internal dac was damaged. At first the dac just didn't work but now all I hear is loud hissing and static, which makes music impossible to listen to, so I contacted schiit support 3 days after the dac stopped working. They asked me a couple of questions but I haven't heard back from them in 5 days. What should I do?


----------



## alpovs

Write them again? Call?


----------



## Tuneslover

User00 said:


> Anround two weeks ago, in the aftermath of hurricane Harvey, my home experienced a power surge after which my jotunheim's dac stopped functioning. I had it connected to a wyrd and a everything was in a surge protector. Nothing but the jotunheim's internal dac was damaged. At first the dac just didn't work but now all I hear is loud hissing and static, which makes music impossible to listen to, so I contacted schiit support 3 days after the dac stopped working. They asked me a couple of questions but I haven't heard back from them in 5 days. What should I do?



They're usually pretty good at responding but I suspect the launch of these new products has them pretty busy.  Have you tried connecting coaxial or toslink inputs (avoiding the USB input entirely) to see if the noise has hit those inputs as well?


----------



## User00 (Sep 26, 2017)

Tuneslover said:


> They're usually pretty good at responding but I suspect the launch of these new products has them pretty busy.  Have you tried connecting coaxial or toslink inputs (avoiding the USB input entirely) to see if the noise has hit those inputs as well?


The jotunheim dac is usb only and I just attempted to contact them again


----------



## Tuneslover

User00 said:


> The jotunheim dac is usb only



Ah yes, sorry I was confusing the Jot with a Bimby.  However, I suppose if you do have a standalone DAC you could use it to test if there's still noise coming from your Jot.  If there is, there may be issues with the preamp or amp section of your Jot too.  If there isn't any noise being amplified by your Jot from the external DAC then you can confirm that the Jot's USB/DAC is the problem.  But then you may already have concluded that already.


----------



## User00

Tuneslover said:


> Ah yes, sorry I was confusing the Jot with a Bimby.  However, I suppose if you do have a standalone DAC you could use it to test if there's still noise coming from your Jot.  If there is, there may be issues with the preamp or amp section of your Jot too.  If there isn't any noise being amplified by your Jot from the external DAC then you can confirm that the Jot's USB/DAC is the problem.  But then you may already have concluded that already.


I've been using an oppo ha-2 with no issues, so I am certain that the issue is indeed the jot's dac.


----------



## rkw

User00 said:


> I've been using an oppo ha-2 with no issues, so I am certain that the issue is indeed the jot's dac.


Have you tried playing something through the Jot's analog input? You can't be sure that the issue is in the DAC until you've done that.

You need to keep trying to contact Schiit until you get through. It is potentially covered under warranty. At this point it is still only speculation that it was knocked out by a power surge. It's possible a component might have been out of spec and that it should have survived. They need to look at it and make a determination about warranty.

I presume that you get the same result when you bypass your Wyrd? The Jot's DAC is powered by the USB (not the internal power supply). If it was damaged by the USB, it was a signal that the Wyrd passed through or might have been generated by the Wyrd itself.


----------



## User00

rkw said:


> Have you tried playing something through the Jot's analog input? You can't be sure that the issue is in the DAC until you've done that.
> 
> You need to keep trying to contact Schiit until you get through. It is potentially covered under warranty. At this point it is still only speculation that it was knocked out by a power surge. It's possible a component might have been out of spec and that it should have survived. They need to look at it and make a determination about warranty.
> 
> I presume that you get the same result when you bypass your Wyrd? The Jot's DAC is powered by the USB (not the internal power supply). If it was damaged by the USB, it was a signal that the Wyrd passed through or might have been generated by the Wyrd itself.


I've tried running the jot dac through the wyrd, directly to my pc, and through otg to my phone. The sound is extremely distorted and buzzy. I currently use the wyrd between my pc and the ha-2, which I use as a dac into the jot. I'm pretty sure at this point that the jot dac is the problem. I contacted schiit again earlier today and am currently awaiting response.


----------



## nahpungnome

User00 said:


> I've tried running the jot dac through the wyrd, directly to my pc, and through otg to my phone. The sound is extremely distorted and buzzy. I currently use the wyrd between my pc and the ha-2, which I use as a dac into the jot. I'm pretty sure at this point that the jot dac is the problem. I contacted schiit again earlier today and am currently awaiting response.


Which email did you use?  When i tired info@, I never got a response.  I used this email because I was asking some questions before I purchased my Jot..ended up just purchasing it anyway.  When I had some questions, I decided to just email orders@ since I just decided to reply to my order confirmation.

I got a response really quick with the sales one.  When I asked another more technical question, I was forwarded to tech@.  They responded not as quick as the sales email, but I got a response the same day....good luck.


----------



## User00

nahpungnome said:


> Which email did you use?  When i tired info@, I never got a response.  I used this email because I was asking some questions before I purchased my Jot..ended up just purchasing it anyway.  When I had some questions, I decided to just email orders@ since I just decided to reply to my order confirmation.
> 
> I got a response really quick with the sales one.  When I asked another more technical question, I was forwarded to tech@.  They responded not as quick as the sales email, but I got a response the same day....good luck.


I emailed tech@ and got quick responses at first but then nothing at all. I emailed them again yesterday but so far no reply.


----------



## nahpungnome

User00 said:


> I emailed tech@ and got quick responses at first but then nothing at all. I emailed them again yesterday but so far no reply.


Hmm, maybe do a reply to your original order and CC tech@ as well?  Seems strange that they're not getting back to you...I'd hate for this to be one of their "bad customer service" examples...There's some people on reddit that are pretty fed up with them as far as service after the sale.


----------



## Selbi

I've heard claims that the Jotunheim's DAC module is actually just two Fullas on a small board. It won't sound really good and even purchasing an external Modi 2 non-uber would already sound significantly better.

Can anyone debunk or confirm this claim? I find it hard to believe that the module sounds worse, considering it's the same price as the external solution.


----------



## nahpungnome

Selbi said:


> I've heard claims that the Jotunheim's DAC module is actually just two Fullas on a small board. It won't sound really good and even purchasing an external Modi 2 non-uber would already sound significantly better.
> 
> Can anyone debunk or confirm this claim? I find it hard to believe that the module sounds worse, considering it's the same price as the external solution.


If you mean 2 of the same 4490 chip, then yes.


----------



## Selbi

nahpungnome said:


> If you mean 2 of the same 4490 chip, then yes.


And how does the claim that it's a better idea to get a Modi hold?


----------



## nahpungnome

Selbi said:


> And how does the claim that it's a better idea to get a Modi hold?


I can't give an opinion either way since I have no experience with either one.  I run a Bifrost Multi into my Jot.


----------



## DoubleIPA

Finally received my Jotunheim and spent the last fours listening with my 650's. This is my first headphone style amp and with recently re ripping my music library into lossless all I can say is it's a great experience.


----------



## User00

I'm not sure. Maybe I could try it out if my jotunheim dac WORKED. Or maybe if schiit support would REPLY. I'm really annoyed that  they still haven't helped me at all. It's been weeks already.


----------



## DoubleIPA

User00 said:


> I'm not sure. Maybe I could try it out if my jotunheim dac WORKED. Or maybe if schiit support would REPLY. I'm really annoyed that  they still haven't helped me at all. It's been weeks already.


Did you try calling? I emailed them and heard back in less than 24 hours and I'm in New Zealand. They solved my issue very quickly.


----------



## User00

DoubleIPA said:


> Did you try calling? I emailed them and heard back in less than 24 hours and I'm in New Zealand. They solved my issue very quickly.


It's cool. I'm over it already and the jot dac makes everything sound brighter and closed in (v shaped?), so I'll just save up for a dac or something.


----------



## sup27606 (Oct 4, 2017)

Selbi said:


> And how does the claim that it's a better idea to get a Modi hold?



It holds pretty well. Many claims are made in the head-fi field, some of them subtle, others subjective or purely psychological. But, the sonic difference between the internal Jot DAC and the Modi DAC (Multibit) is substantial in my opinion. It's instantly discernible in the soundstage and imaging, along with probably many other areas that have technical terms I am not going to bother with....

If you have only heard the internal DAC, you will probably be OK with it, but once you have heard an external DAC like Mimby with the Jot, no going back to the internal one (assuming you have decent headphones).


----------



## rkw (Oct 3, 2017)

Selbi said:


> I've heard claims that the Jotunheim's DAC module is actually just two Fullas on a small board. It won't sound really good and even purchasing an external Modi 2 non-uber would already sound significantly better.


The Jotunheim's DAC is essentially a balanced version of Modi 2 (non-Uber). Like the Modi 2, it is powered by the USB and can be affected by electrical noise on the USB power. The next step up in performance would be Modi 2 Uber, which has a separate power supply.


----------



## Selbi

So, I've just sent off the order for a Jotunheim, but now I've heard about a big problem with it from another guy: The XLR pre-outs don't mute when you plug in a headphone. This would be a MAJOR inconvenience and I might even cancel the order if that's the case.

Can anyone confirm or debunk that claim?


----------



## Selbi

EDIT: Double post.


----------



## dr cornelius

Selbi said:


> So, I've just sent off the order for a Jotunheim, but now I've heard about a big problem with it from another guy: The XLR pre-outs don't mute when you plug in a headphone. This would be a MAJOR inconvenience and I might even cancel the order if that's the case.
> 
> Can anyone confirm or debunk that claim?


That’s true - ‘phones DO NOT automatically mute speakers.  I’m not sure why,, but I just power down my monitors because they’re right on my desktop...


----------



## Selbi

dr cornelius said:


> That’s true - ‘phones DO NOT automatically mute speakers.  I’m not sure why,, but I just power down my monitors because they’re right on my desktop...



Oh my god, sorry for my outburst here, but this is dumb as hell. Even my old Fulla 2 could do this without hassle, and it was a FIFTH of the price! Gaaahhh...

My speakers are going to be mounted in such a way that I will not be able to conveniently turn them off whenever I need them to.

I'm seriously considering to just order a Magni 3 now, which will sound significantly worse and also have no XLR support, but at least I won't have to worry about something this calibre of stupid design.


----------



## earnmyturns

Selbi said:


> Oh my god, sorry for my outburst here, but this is dumb as hell. Even my old Fulla 2 could do this without hassle, and it was a FIFTH of the price! Gaaahhh...
> 
> My speakers are going to be mounted in such a way that I will not be able to conveniently turn them off whenever I need them to.
> 
> I'm seriously considering to just order a Magni 3 now, which will sound significantly worse and also have no XLR support, but at least I won't have to worry about something this calibre of stupid design.


Been discussed _ad nauseam_*. *According to Schiit, there's no reliable, non-distorting way of sensing an XLR socket to determine whether the headphones are plugged into it. In contrast, stereo jack connections have a built-in muting switch.


----------



## Selbi

earnmyturns said:


> In contrast, stereo jack connections have a built-in muting switch.


Do you mean the jack headphone input has muting and only the balanced output doesn't?


----------



## dr cornelius

earnmyturns said:


> Been discussed _ad nauseam_*. *According to Schiit, there's no reliable, non-distorting way of sensing an XLR socket to determine whether the headphones are plugged into it. In contrast, stereo jack connections have a built-in muting switch.


Thanks for the info - that’s kind of what I thought...



Selbi said:


> Do you mean the jack headphone input has muting and only the balanced output doesn't?


Does not mute with the traditional 1/4” jack either...


----------



## Selbi

dr cornelius said:


> Does not mute with the traditional 1/4” jack either...



Well, guess I got to live with the consequences now.

What are the common workarounds that people use here (other than turning the speakers off of course)? I imagine buying an extra power strip with a switch would be a suitable solution.


----------



## cskippy

Yup, have my power amp and sub on a power strip.  Just turn on or off as needed.


----------



## Selbi

Then I guess I'll get something like this. While still an inconvenience I had hoped to avoid by paying 499 bucks, I guess it can be dealt with.


----------



## Tuneslover

Selbi said:


> Then I guess I'll get something like this. While still an inconvenience I had hoped to avoid by paying 499 bucks, I guess it can be dealt with.



I use a SYS.


----------



## Letmebefrank

SYS won't work for XLR.


----------



## earnmyturns

dr cornelius said:


> Thanks for the info - that’s kind of what I thought...
> 
> 
> Does not mute with the traditional 1/4” jack either...


Here's what Jason wrote somewhere else:
_Switched TRS jacks are fairly common--the signal runs from one side of the jack to the other until the headphone is plugged in, which lifts the contacts physically and disables the line output._​I don't think that would do the right thing for a balanced circuit like the Jot, wouldn't it need two switches/channel? I guess you could have a more complicated circuit with a relay etc, but that would cost more...


----------



## Tuneslover

Letmebefrank said:


> SYS won't work for XLR.



Oh I didn't realize @Selbi was using the balanced inputs on his Jot.  Obviously I use the SE inputs on my Jot.


----------



## Letmebefrank

Tuneslover said:


> Oh I didn't realize @Selbi was using the balanced inputs on his Jot.  Obviously I use the SE inputs on my Jot.



He mentioned using XLR from his Jot to his monitors. 

I was using SYS in reverse between my Mimby and Jot to switch between headphones and speaker amp, but realized it was not as transparent as I originally thought when I tested with my Vali 2 and Modi 2U. Now I just run straight into my Jot from Mimby, then rca outs to my speaker amp, which sits right in front of me with a switch on the front. I just unplug my headphones and switch on the speaker amp, or vice versa.


----------



## Selbi

Yeah, @Letmebefrank got the idea. But the more I think about it the smarter it becomes to get a power strip with a remote button, like the one I linked in my last post. I can simply power the monitors off when not in use, saving some energy and their longevity in the process. (It's not much, but at least I can pretend I'm doing something for the environment.)


----------



## Tuneslover

Letmebefrank said:


> He mentioned using XLR from his Jot to his monitors.
> 
> I was using SYS in reverse between my Mimby and Jot to switch between headphones and speaker amp, but realized it was not as transparent as I originally thought when I tested with my Vali 2 and Modi 2U. Now I just run straight into my Jot from Mimby, then rca outs to my speaker amp, which sits right in front of me with a switch on the front. I just unplug my headphones and switch on the speaker amp, or vice versa.



Hmmm...the SYS is causing a reduction in transparency?  Interesting.  I might have to do some testing of my own.


----------



## DavidA

Tuneslover said:


> Hmmm...the SYS is causing a reduction in transparency?  Interesting.  I might have to do some testing of my own.


I'd be interested to hear what you find since I also use the SYS in reverse as a signal splitter.


----------



## Tuneslover (Oct 5, 2017)

Letmebefrank said:


> I was using SYS in reverse between my Mimby and Jot to switch between headphones and speaker amp, but realized it was not as transparent as I originally thought when I tested with my Vali 2 and Modi 2U. Now I just run straight into my Jot from Mimby, then rca outs to my speaker amp, which sits right in front of me with a switch on the front. I just unplug my headphones and switch on the speaker amp, or vice versa.



So I eliminated the SYS from my Jot setup to see what a direct connection from my Bimby to Jot sounds like.  I must admit that it does sound different.  I haven't decided whether it's better or not but it does sound more transparent like you noted.  With the SYS connection setup I used different cables (all Audioquest but not the same type) which might have introduced some of the difference in sound compared to what I'm hearing now.  Anyway, it makes sense to keep the connection path as simple as possible.

So I plugged my powered Paradigm Shift speakers into a power bar to separately control the speakers power on/off.  I also kept the audio routed from the satellite receiver through the SYS in order to conveniently adjust the volume when watching TV.  Otherwise I would need to manually adjust each speakers volume (major pain).  The only problem is that I can't go through the Bimby/Jot system to listen to the TV with headphones.  So I'm going old school by just plugging my headphones directly into the TV (thankfully the TV has a headphone output).

Thanks for your comment regarding SYS's potential impact on the Jot's transparency as it inspired me to try your suggested connection.


----------



## Letmebefrank

I found that on my old setup (Modi 2U > Vali 2 > HD598) I couldn't tell when the SYS was in the system. With my current setup (Eitr > Mimby > Jot > HD650) There is a slight sharpening of details in the higher frequencies when the SYS is removed. It's not major but I noticed it. I took the SYS out of my system when I got the Eitr as I didnt want to have a 3-high stack next to my Jot (for aesthetic reasons) and was surprised to hear that all of a sudden cymbals sounded better than ever. I put the sys back in and made sure the pot was maxed and it was obvious to me that the SYS was affecting the sound quality.

I have to say that I have a *very* keen ear for cymbals and treble in general, so it might be that most people wont even notice this change.


----------



## Tuneslover

Letmebefrank said:


> I found that on my old setup (Modi 2U > Vali 2 > HD598) I couldn't tell when the SYS was in the system. With my current setup (Eitr > Mimby > Jot > HD650) There is a slight sharpening of details in the higher frequencies when the SYS is removed. It's not major but I noticed it. I took the SYS out of my system when I got the Eitr as I didnt want to have a 3-high stack next to my Jot (for aesthetic reasons) and was surprised to hear that all of a sudden cymbals sounded better than ever. I put the sys back in and made sure the pot was maxed and it was obvious to me that the SYS was affecting the sound quality.
> 
> I have to say that I have a *very* keen ear for cymbals and treble in general, so it might be that most people wont even notice this change.



I only had a brief listen but I did notice a difference in the sound.  More live-like, more present and yes I would agree that the higher frequencies are a bit more vivid but not harsh.  I also tend to think that the bass is slightly thinner or the clearer highs are more emphasized and overshadowing the bass.  I should note that I was using my HE500's and not the HD650's so obviously there will be a difference when I swap headphones.  The other thing I will try is auditioning the different Audioquest cables to see if they might be contributing to the difference in sound.  Perhaps one might be more preferable over the others but I think cables have the least affect in the big picture.

The one thing that I didn't like about the SYS is the channel imbalance at low volumes.  For headphones through the Bimby/Jot it wasn't an issue as I set the SYS full volume and controlled the volume via the Jot.  But for TV listening I was constantly trying to find the perfect balance between the Paradigms and the SYS.  I did like the SYS for toggling between headphones and TV though.  Also, the SYS setup allowed me the benefit of the Bimby when watching TV (and listening to the music channels).

I love tweaking and this will be fun over the next few days.  Since I have figured out a workaround to give me the options I need it makes total sense to keep the Bimby/Jot connection as pure as possible.  I'm seriously thinking about getting a Loki, which of course will introduce another component back into this simplified chain though.


----------



## sup27606

I connected the Jotunheim's pre-outs to another headphone amp and found the treble to be a bit subdued and soundstage reduced, as compared to connecting directly from the Mimby. I was using the Nobsound NS-08E and Sennheiser 6XX. Volume on the Jot was at 12 o'clock position.


----------



## alpovs

Selbi said:


> What are the common workarounds that people use here (other than turning the speakers off of course)? I imagine buying an extra power strip with a switch would be a suitable solution.


Maybe something like this: Hosa Technology GMS-274 - In-Line XLR Barrel Microphone On/Off Switch. You will need two of them.


----------



## MtnMan307

My Jotunheim got here maybe 30 minutes ago.  I hooked it up to the Modi Multibit and my first impressions are that this could be a 30 year item for me.

I've had a Vali 2 for more than a year and a half, and I still want to keep it for now, but this is a big step up.  The low end is definitely stronger, more solid, and goes deeper with my headphones.    

I have the K7XX and HD650.  The 650s sound awesome out of the balanced connection, as I heard down at RMAF in Denver last weekend.  The K7XX also eat up the extra power but I'm not able to run them balanced as a stock headphone.


----------



## Goodman247

I’m in the market to buy a Jotunheim (still trying to find a good pre-own one), but my question is, is the version with the Dac module good enough or should I go with the basic version and purchase a separate $150 or under dac? Such as the modi 2 Uber. I think the version with the Dac module is preferred because I don’t have much space on my computer desk, on the other hand I’m considering this purchase as one where I will or at least hope to use without upgrading in the next 10 years or so. Any suggestions?


----------



## dr cornelius

Goodman247 said:


> I’m in the market to buy a Jotunheim (still trying to find a good pre-own one), but my question is, is the version with the Dac module good enough or should I go with the basic version and purchase a separate $150 or under dac? Such as the modi 2 Uber. I think the version with the Dac module is preferred because I don’t have much space on my computer desk, on the other hand I’m considering this purchase as one where I will or at least hope to use without upgrading in the next 10 years or so. Any suggestions?


IME the onboard DAC is great - and ultimately upgradable, when Schiit makes improvements in the future.  From what I’ve heard from other listeners, is the minimum separate DAC to buy would be the Modi Multibit - otherwise just stick with the internal one...


----------



## Tuneslover

Goodman247 said:


> I’m in the market to buy a Jotunheim (still trying to find a good pre-own one), but my question is, is the version with the Dac module good enough or should I go with the basic version and purchase a separate $150 or under dac? Such as the modi 2 Uber. I think the version with the Dac module is preferred because I don’t have much space on my computer desk, on the other hand I’m considering this purchase as one where I will or at least hope to use without upgrading in the next 10 years or so. Any suggestions?



There has been much written on this subject in this thread with varying opinions, however my recollection of opinions is that if you're looking to get the most out of your system most would agree that you should go with the base Jot (thereby saving $100 by not choosing the DAC module) and save up the extra $150 and buy a standalone Modi Multibit.

If as you mentioned that your work space is limited I think it's possible to place the Mimby on top of the Jotunheim but keep it on the left hand side of the Jot to minimize covering the vent holes.  However if balanced connectivity is important to you then you need to be aware that the Mimby only has SE (single ended) output into the Jotunheim.

With respect to your question about the Modi 2U I'm not familiar with it's sound signature or how it compares to the optional built-in DAC for the Jotunheim but both use the the AK4490 chip, however the Jotunheim DAC option has dual AK4490.

I own both a Modi MB and a Bifrost MB, as well as, a Bimby 4490.  First off, I personally find that the multibit DACs sound more realistic and more detailed than the 4490.  I simply prefer the Multibit DAC.  Secondly, although the Bimby does sound slightly smoother (better to me) than the Mimby both DACs sound incredibly similar.  To me the Modi MB is simply a much better value.


----------



## XERO1 (Oct 14, 2017)

IMHO, the Schiit AK4490 and Multibit DAC's have very different sound signatures.

The 4490 DAC's sound very clear and neutral, while the MB DAC's have a significantly more up-front character but also have more perceivable resolution in the mids and highs.

It's kind of like the difference between two equally good white and red wines.  One is not necessarily 'better' than the other. They are two very good but very different things, and its up to you to decide which one is more to your taste or compliments your system better.


----------



## Letmebefrank

I love my Eitr > Modi Multibit > Jotunheim > balanced HD650s 

I had the Modi Multibit before I bought the Jotunheim, so I never tried the internal DAC. AK4490 is a good D/S dac, and 2 of them balanced for $100 is a really good deal. However, you will be limited on other Schiit items in the future such as the Eitr, the Loki Mini EQ, and the upcoming "The Gadget". The Eitr and Gadget require S/PDIF Coax input and Loki Mini has to go between the DAC and amp. None of that is possible with the built-in Jot DAC. I'm hoping they release a S/PDIF Coax input internal DAC for Jotunheim so that people wont be held back by USB.


----------



## sup27606

The multibit DAC is way superior than the internal DAC. It's not subtle. The best improvement is in soundstage and resolution. It doesn't take that much space to put the Mimby over the Jot.


----------



## Tuneslover

sup27606 said:


> The multibit DAC is way superior than the internal DAC. It's not subtle. The best improvement is in soundstage and resolution. It doesn't take that much space to put the Mimby over the Jot.



Looks like a terrific room heating system.  I find that the Mimby sounds better while it has something resting on top of it as opposed to sitting on it's own.


----------



## sup27606

Tuneslover said:


> Looks like a terrific room heating system.  I find that the Mimby sounds better while it has something resting on top of it as opposed to sitting on it's own.



Also, as terrific night lamps .


----------



## sup27606

Out of curiosity, I connected the Nobsound tube buffer amp as a preamp to the Jot. The result was far better than I expected. Even though I used the amped headphone out of the Nobsound as input to the Jot, I didn't hear any distortion or detoriation in sound quality. In fact, the Nobsound added slight warmth with more pronounced bottom end, and here is the best part, it improved the soundstage of Jot. I heard through the Sennheiser 6xx and Audeze EL8, and the deeper soundstage was noticeable in both. For now, I prefer the sound of Mimby -> Nobsound -> Jot over just Mimby -> Jot.


----------



## JoeKickass

I just realized the $400 Jot has more total power supply capacity than the $850 Mjolnir 2!

This might explain why the Jot has better bass and sound than the Magni 3, even though Jason and Mike say they share a very similar circuit topology.
The Jot simply has the power to back it up!

And it's an awesome value compared to the Mjolnir 2, still loving this amp!

Jotunheim:
Power Supply: One 48VA transformer with 6 stages of discrete or integrated regulation and over *70,000uF* total filter capacitance

Mjolnir 2:
Power Supply: specific Circlotron 4-secondary output stage transformer with over* 65,000uF* filter capacitance, plus dedicated transformer for high-voltage discrete-regulated front end stage with 200V rails and over *4,000uf *of filter capacitance 

Magni 3:
Power Supply: “Wall wart” style 24VA 14VAC transformer, regulated +/- 17V rails with over *6,000uF* filter capacitance


----------



## Tuneslover

JoeKickass said:


> I just realized the $400 Jot has more total power supply capacity than the $850 Mjolnir 2!
> 
> This might explain why the Jot has better bass and sound than the Magni 3, even though Jason and Mike say they share a very similar circuit topology.
> The Jot simply has the power to back it up!
> ...



Yup, I replaced and sold my Magni 2U with the Jot (amp only) when it came out.  Simply a much more refined amp that has an excellent grip on my HD650's and HE500's.


----------



## thefitz

Would it be wild if they put the Gadget onto one of those module cards to replace the onboard DAC....


----------



## boostergold90

Haven't gotten to spend much time with my HD650's and my Jot that just arrived, but I'll be interested to hear from others how it Jot does with the HD660S when those are out in the wild.


----------



## Tuneslover

thefitz said:


> Would it be wild if they put the Gadget onto one of those module cards to replace the onboard DAC....



...and self installable.


----------



## jnak00

The current Gadget requires a knob...so are you going to drill a hole in your Jot case for the knob?


----------



## Tuneslover

jnak00 said:


> The current Gadget requires a knob...so are you going to drill a hole in your Jot case for the knob?



LOL...I'm just promoting the Schiit product upgradability philosophy.


----------



## FLTWS

jnak00 said:


> The current Gadget requires a knob...so are you going to drill a hole in your Jot case for the knob?



Wouldn't  there be a need for a another LED light used for the adjustment and a second hole to drill as well?


----------



## GrussGott

Hey Experts, I need your advice:
I'm 90% on getting the Jot, but do I go internal DAC or stretch my budget into a Modi MB/Jot stack to drive Aeon Flow othos via USB and Tidal HiFi streams?


----------



## MtnMan307

GrussGott said:


> Hey Experts, I need your advice:
> I'm 90% on getting the Jot, but do I go internal DAC or stretch my budget into a Modi MB/Jot stack to drive Aeon Flow othos via USB and Tidal HiFi streams?



Depends on what you have now.  I was lucky enough to talk to Mike Moffat of Schiit Audio at RMAF just over a week ago.  

He recommended that I get the Jot without the DAC since I already had the Modi Multibit/Vali 2 stack.

Very pleased with it so far!  Definitely a big step up with the HD650s and far more all-purpose!


----------



## sup27606 (Oct 29, 2017)

GrussGott said:


> Hey Experts, I need your advice:
> I'm 90% on getting the Jot, but do I go internal DAC or stretch my budget into a Modi MB/Jot stack to drive Aeon Flow othos via USB and Tidal HiFi streams?



Get the Mimby. First of all, its vastly superior in sound quality to the internal DAC. The internal DAC seems to limit the abilities of Jot, while the Mimby doesn't so much. Secondly, you can expand to other amps in future and still have a solid DAC to connect to. Mimby is a futuristic investment in my opinion. In fact, you can use one Mimby to connect to multiple amps using RCA splitters.


----------



## involuntarysoul

quick question, looking for a replacement knob, anyone can give me the diameter and depth of the knob? thanks. Thinking about getting this to match with black Jot

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1Pc...32753503255.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.lmiytO


----------



## Selbi

Does anyone know if you can use the pre-outs for XLR and RCA can be used at the same time? Will it worsen the quality somehow or even mute one output?


----------



## genclaymore (Oct 19, 2017)

Selbi said:


> Does anyone know if you can use the pre-outs for XLR and RCA can be used at the same time? Will it worsen the quality somehow or even mute one output?


RCA and XLR pre- outs can be used at the same time as both will play audio since there is no  muting function on the jotunheim. Using both will not effect the quality at all so nothing to worry about. I have personally used both without any issues.


----------



## thefitz

FLTWS said:


> Wouldn't  there be a need for a another LED light used for the adjustment and a second hole to drill as well?


Put some sort of mini knob on the card itself. But if they're doing the installing they can easily add a knob.

If we are seriously discussing a digital pitch offset device, we can use some imagination, yeah?


----------



## Suopermanni

Hey, has anyone used the Jot as a preamp for a stereo power amp with no volume control on it?

I just wanted to know if I can use the Jot as a volume control on a power amp?


----------



## MWSVette

Suopermanni said:


> Hey, has anyone used the Jot as a preamp for a stereo power amp with no volume control on it?
> 
> I just wanted to know if I can use the Jot as a volume control on a power amp?



That is not how I use it but, yes...


----------



## Suopermanni

So that DOES work! Okay, thanks! I mean, I am using it as a headphone amp at the moment but was curious if you could use it like I was suggesting.


----------



## tuna47

I was not thrilled by the jot dac 
I would definitely buy the jot minus dac 
I use the mojo as my dac much better than internal dac


----------



## JoeKickass

Jot + Modi Multibit gets my vote!

Here's my setup, I mostly use active monitors through the SYS and have short sessions with the Jot so it doesn't heat up much:


----------



## abhinit90 (Oct 29, 2017)

Sorry, ignore


----------



## xLoud

How is jot compared to NFB 11.28?


----------



## Thebb

Sorry if this has been answered before (I'm sure it has, ad nauseam), tried using the search but couldn't find the answer.

I currently have a Bifrost Uber which only has RCA out. If I connect my Bifrost to the Jot via the SE in and use the balanced out to the headphones, will I not be getting a full balanced experience?


----------



## Letmebefrank

You won't get the "full" balanced experience in that it won't be "fully balanced". But the Jot produces like 97% of it's power with se in and bal out, so you aren't missing out on any of the benefits that Jot has when running your headphones balanced.


----------



## BLacklWf

Has anyone with Jot also heard Corda Jazz FF?  I'm thinking either for HD650/XX.  I read Jot is Great with HD650, but I also read some saying Corda Jazz FF is as if made for HD650.  So far I gathered is that Jot's balanced out is especially good for HD650.  For Jazz FF, it has some special audio circuit that refines the sound imagery which in turn takes the veil off 650.  I'm sure both drives HD650 superbly, and they are rather similarly priced.  I wonder if there is anyone who tried the both with HD650 since I hate the idea of trying and return.


----------



## joeexp

Letmebefrank said:


> You won't get the "full" balanced experience in that it won't be "fully balanced". But the Jot produces like 97% of it's power with se in and bal out, so you aren't missing out on any of the benefits that Jot has when running your headphones balanced.



The Jotunheim is a fully balanced amp. A phase-splitter is used for the SE input.


----------



## sweetben

Has anyone tried the AudioQuest Jitterbug with the Jot?  Since the internal DAC is powered by the computer, I thought it might help.


----------



## Letmebefrank

joeexp said:


> The Jotunheim is a fully balanced amp. A phase-splitter is used for the SE input.



Usually when people say "fully balanced" they mean the entire chain: balanced DAC to Balanced Amp to Balanced Headphone. It has been covered repeatedly that the Jotunheim outputs a balanced signal when fed by single ended RCAs.


----------



## jimmers

joeexp said:


> .... A phase-splitter is used for the SE input.


to quote Schiit
"Jotunheim's gain stage is a unique, inherently balanced, fully discrete current feedback topology that provides both balanced and single-ended output without the need for splitters or summers"


----------



## BLacklWf (Nov 16, 2017)

jimmers said:


> to quote Schiit
> "Jotunheim's gain stage is a unique, inherently balanced, fully discrete current feedback topology that provides both balanced and single-ended output without the need for splitters or summers"



That means the audio circuit can detect which input (RCA vs Balanced) has the signal and which output (SE vs Balanced) is connected to headphones and direct the signals as needed.  It sounds better than using a splitters, but some may question about its effectiveness.  Because Jot has crosstalk of >-70dB.  Not sure how they measured it.  Maybe it's SE measurement.  If it's balanced measurement, then it's very high for a balanced amp.  Some SE amps have lower crosstalk than that!  This may or may not indicate that the left vs right channels are connected at some level some where.  As long as left and right channel amps are housed together, there is always some level of crosstalk unless its two separated mono block driving each channel.  But, some well executed balanced amp have -110dB or lower crosstalk.


----------



## GrussGott

aw fukit, I'm in.  Ordered.


----------



## MtnMan307

I’ve had mine for about a month now and it makes me want to get more headphones. Hopefully we get some good opportunities for Black Friday.


----------



## joeexp

jimmers said:


> to quote Schiit
> "Jotunheim's gain stage is a unique, inherently balanced, fully discrete current feedback topology that provides both balanced and single-ended output without the need for splitters or summers"



I was talking about the input!


----------



## jimmers

joeexp said:


> I was talking about the input!


!
?


----------



## kellte2

I’ve had my Jot for about a week and it really, really makes my Ether C Flows sing. My first Schiit product and am very impressed. 

My LCv2 bought the farm 3-4 times in a month/6 week, and I was generously offered a full refund.  No disparagement to the Carbon, but the Jot drives the ECF with so much more authority.


----------



## Alcophone

When you love your amp, you let it make new friends...


----------



## MtnMan307

Alcophone said:


> When you love your amp, you let it make new friends...


Schiit! Maybe someday I can afford all those cans!


----------



## Alcophone (Nov 20, 2017)

MtnMan307 said:


> Schiit! Maybe someday I can afford all those cans!


Haha, that'll be a good day. Sadly, all of these (edit: except for the AR-H1) are owned by Audio Vision SF or Sennheiser, but I convinced the former to give me my own pair of one of them with the might of my credit card.


----------



## sup27606

Alcophone said:


> When you love your amp, you let it make new friends...



Get the Mimby. That's the first friend you want the Jot to make. Then you can get many more headphones to act super friendly with your audio chain


----------



## Alcophone

sup27606 said:


> Get the Mimby. That's the first friend you want the Jot to make. Then you can get many more headphones to act super friendly with your audio chain


Hehe, I'm torn between balanced and Bimby. If Schiit made a balanced multibit DAC in Bifrost form, I'd be all over that. Schiit is working on their own USB implementation, which uses up less space, so... who knows?
Then again as I just found out, the Jotunheim can run fully blanced with a single ended source, without those (apparently) horrible phase splitters. Hmmm!
However, I also want to get an Yggdrasil at some point, I think I'll focus on that first.


----------



## senorx12562

MtnMan307 said:


> My Jotunheim got here maybe 30 minutes ago.  I hooked it up to the Modi Multibit and my first impressions are that this could be a 30 year item for me.
> 
> I've had a Vali 2 for more than a year and a half, and I still want to keep it for now, but this is a big step up.  The low end is definitely stronger, more solid, and goes deeper with my headphones.
> 
> I have the K7XX and HD650.  The 650s sound awesome out of the balanced connection, as I heard down at RMAF in Denver last weekend.  The K7XX also eat up the extra power but I'm not able to run them balanced as a stock headphone.


I was right here a while back, thinking I would keep my Vali2 side by side with the Jot, but I just ended up not using the Vali2 and eventually selling it. The Jot sounds better than the Vali2 with all of the 'phones I have (many, or most, disagree), and it seemed silly to keep it and not use it. YMMV of course.


----------



## Tuneslover

senorx12562 said:


> I was right here a while back, thinking I would keep my Vali2 side by side with the Jot, but I just ended up not using the Vali2 and eventually selling it. The Jot sounds better than the Vali2 with all of the 'phones I have (many, or most, disagree), and it seemed silly to keep it and not use it. YMMV of course.



My "problem" is that when I buy an amp or a DAC, when I upgrade, instead of selling what I already have I just create an additional listening room.


----------



## FLTWS

Tuneslover said:


> My "problem" is that when I buy an amp or a DAC, when I upgrade, instead of selling what I already have I just create an additional listening room.



I know what you mean, LOL!


----------



## Tuneslover

FLTWS said:


> I know what you mean, LOL!



My wife thinks I have a problem (as I look over my shoulder sneaking a peak at her while I write this...secretly admitting that she's probably right) but she much prefers me getting my audio fix with the headphone systems instead of my much more noisy/disruptive speaker setups.


----------



## earnmyturns (Nov 21, 2017)

Alcophone said:


> Hehe, I'm torn between balanced and Bimby. If Schiit made a balanced multibit DAC in Bifrost form, I'd be all over that. Schiit is working on their own USB implementation, which uses up less space, so... who knows?
> Then again as I just found out, the Jotunheim can run fully blanced with a single ended source, without those (apparently) horrible phase splitters. Hmmm!
> However, I also want to get an Yggdrasil at some point, I think I'll focus on that first.


Bimby>Jot is a great pairing. Lots of power, solid, well-delineated bass, clean mid-to-upper range, good transients. Jot is ridiculously good value: in my extensive listening, it beat the twice as expensive Cavalli Liquid Carbon and it gets close to the 3x more expensive Neurochrome HP-1. As for the Bimby, I own several more expensive DACs (Yggy, Holo Spring KTE 3, Soekris dac1541), but I'm not disappointed when I listen to the Bimby. Yes, those others may give more detail and instrument separation, but the Bimby is clear, lively, and very enjoyable overall.


----------



## Freddy1765 (Nov 23, 2017)

I received my Jot a couple of days ago to replace my old Fiio 09. I've been pairing it with my (also new) Sennheiser HD650s. Unfortunately, I'm really not liking the sound at all. The resolution, detail and soundstage are all much better than my Fiio, but I can't stand the highs. They literally hurt my ears, even at volumes that I wouldn't consider loud at all. I can't turn it up above 10pm before the highs just kill me, but the mids and lows sound great at around 12pm. I'm probably going to return it as 550 euro is just too much money to spend on something I don't absolutely love. Don't know if I can go back to my Fiio though..


----------



## cskippy

Some things to try:  Leave Jot on all the time, many including myself think it sounds better warm and on 24/7.  Try using the low gain setting.  To my ears, it is less harsh in the highs and a little more tame and relaxed overall.  If these two things don't help, then Jot might not be for you.


----------



## Freddy1765

cskippy said:


> Some things to try:  Leave Jot on all the time, many including myself think it sounds better warm and on 24/7.  Try using the low gain setting.  To my ears, it is less harsh in the highs and a little more tame and relaxed overall.  If these two things don't help, then Jot might not be for you.



Those are good suggestions; I'll try to experiment a bit before the return deadline. How long does it actually take to properly warm up? I sleep in the same room and the white LED is quite bright so it'd be nice to turn it off at night.


----------



## cskippy

I'm sure it's reached thermal equilibrium in a couple of hours but 24 hours is a safe bet.  I too have mine in my bedroom facing me and grabbed a package of silver light dims from Amazon.  Problem solved!


----------



## JoeKickass

Freddy1765 said:


> I received my Jot a couple of days ago to replace my old Fiio 09. I've been pairing it with my (also new) Sennheiser HD650s. Unfortunately, I'm really not liking the sound at all. The resolution, detail and soundstage are all much better than my Fiio, but I can't stand the highs. They literally hurt my ears, even at volumes that I wouldn't consider loud at all. I can't turn it up above 10pm before the highs just kill me, but the mids and lows sound great at around 12pm. I'm probably going to return it as 550 euro is just too much money to spend on something I don't absolutely love. Don't know if I can go back to my Fiio though..


If you're not using the Jot's internal DAC you could throw a Loki EQ in between the Jot and the DAC, that will let you adjust for the perfect sound and still keep the Jot's detail and resolution. A decent software EQ might be a solution too.

I use the Jot with the HD 600 and think it's just about perfect, so I can see how it might be a bit bright with the 650.


----------



## jimmers (Nov 23, 2017)

Freddy1765 said:


> ... Unfortunately, I'm really not liking the sound at all. The resolution, detail and soundstage are all much better than my Fiio, but I can't stand the highs. They literally hurt my ears, even at volumes that I wouldn't consider loud at all. I can't turn it up above 10pm before the highs just kill me, but the mids and lows sound great at around 12pm...


Hi, what source and types of music are you listening to?
I am very treble sensitive (my AKG Q701 are locked away where they can't hurt me any more), and I have no problems with highs from my Jot and HD650, both well run in.
 I know we all have different hearing so maybe this combo just doesn't suit you.

P.S. My source is Bifrost MB and I listen to most types of music.

Edit: Just listened to Taylor Swift to see if I could handle "shrill" .


----------



## Freddy1765

jimmers said:


> Hi, what source and types of music are you listening to?
> I am very treble sensitive (my AKG Q701 are locked away where they can't hurt me any more), and I have no problems with highs from my Jot and HD650, both well run in.
> I know we all have different hearing so maybe this combo just doesn't suit you.
> 
> P.S. My source is Bifrost MB and I listen to most types of music.



Source is mostly Tidal HiFi where I listen to many different things - Pink Floyd, Metallica, Daft Punk, classical, jazz. I tried running the Jot through my Asus Xonar external sound card, but I can't actually tell the difference between that and the Jot's built-in DAC. Spending another 2-300 euro on a Bimby or Mimby doesn't really make financial sense to me at the moment. 
I'm a bit disappointed given the great things I'd read about the Jot, but perhaps it is as you say, the pairing of it and the HD650s just isn't for me.


----------



## jimmers

Freddy1765 said:


> Source is mostly Tidal HiFi where I listen to many different things - Pink Floyd, Metallica, Daft Punk, classical, jazz. I tried running the Jot through my Asus Xonar external sound card, but I can't actually tell the difference between that and the Jot's built-in DAC. Spending another 2-300 euro on a Bimby or Mimby doesn't really make financial sense to me at the moment.
> I'm a bit disappointed given the great things I'd read about the Jot, but perhaps it is as you say, the pairing of it and the HD650s just isn't for me.


There's some stuff about Tidal etc. 
from
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wha...n-robert-hunter.784471/page-376#post-13866508

onwards


----------



## DavidA

Freddy1765 said:


> Source is mostly Tidal HiFi where I listen to many different things - Pink Floyd, Metallica, Daft Punk, classical, jazz. I tried running the Jot through my Asus Xonar external sound card, but I can't actually tell the difference between that and the Jot's built-in DAC. Spending another 2-300 euro on a Bimby or Mimby doesn't really make financial sense to me at the moment.
> I'm a bit disappointed given the great things I'd read about the Jot, but perhaps it is as you say, the pairing of it and the HD650s just isn't for me.


It amazing how differently we all hear, to me the HD650 was one of the few headphones that I liked with the Jot (no internal DAC, used UD-301 and Bimby) and it was a bit too bright for most of my other headphones that I was thinking of using with it.


----------



## Tuneslover

cskippy said:


> I'm sure it's reached thermal equilibrium in a couple of hours but 24 hours is a safe bet.  I too have mine in my bedroom facing me and grabbed a package of silver light dims from Amazon.  Problem solved!



I use them too but I found that you might need to double them up.  The other thing that I have tried is leaning something solid (like a drink coaster) in front of the LED's but you might need to unplug your headphones when it comes to the Jot.


----------



## cskippy

Yup that's true.  I used an empty chapstick before the light dims and that worked very well.


----------



## GrussGott (Nov 28, 2017)

Just got my Jot for a full in-home test and did a few hours with it:

Macbook Pro > Tidal HiFi > TOSLINK s/pdif > Mojo @1.9v > super cheap RCA cable > Jot (high gain, SE) >  TH-x00 mahogany

(1.) I love the Mojo DAC's "relaxed" sound as part of a setup driving the Jot.  While I probably wouldn't use the Mojo/Jot for critical listening, I really don't do that so for my use the Mojo is great (haven't done a full in-home of a Mimby or higher)

(2.) The Jot DEFINITELY improves on the Mojo's sound overall.  A great example is Psychemagick's Valley of Paradise: the driving bass line sounds a bit muddy via the Mojo alone, but through the Jot sounds super clean.  Enter the Lovely by Bluetech sounds supreme through the Jot, and hi-res Diana Krall is sublime.

(3.) The Jot really opens things up, cleans them up, and clears them up; this is almost always a good thing, but on badly recorded / mixed songs / sourced songs it's not good.  An example is I Melt with You by Modern English - there was no version that sounded good, and there were a few other songs that had similar problems.  Another example is She Sells Sanctuary (long version) by The Cult - it sounded good, but maybe sounded better on the Mojo alone, I'll have to play more

I was prepared for not much discernible difference across all music types I listen to, but that's not the case: the Jot really makes a difference, at least so far driven by the Mojo.

I will be doing some more A/Bing, getting an HD600 in the game, using USB, etc but for now I'll call the Jot a big win.


----------



## Myk28

Hey guys I'm looking for a Jotunheim to pair with a Mimby. Just let me know if you are interested in selling yours, thanks


----------



## leafy7382

I think Jot deserves better power cable then the stock. The stock cable is a 18awg power cord, I was happy with it until I swapped it out with a 14 awg cable. The low notes hit a lot harder with more sense of presence. It's a $10 no-brainer swap.


----------



## GrussGott

leafy7382 said:


> I think Jot deserves better power cable then the stock. The stock cable is a 18awg power cord, I was happy with it until I swapped it out with a 14 awg cable. The low notes hit a lot harder with more sense of presence. It's a $10 no-brainer swap.



Skeptical guy is skeptical


----------



## JoeKickass

I upgraded my Jot with a shielded power cable to reduce noise, they are dirt cheap so if you want a 14 awg there's no penalty other than thickness and stiffness, personally I went with 16 awg:

18 awg - https://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=17600-10-B1
16 awg - https://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=17602-10-B1
14 awg - https://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=17604-10-B1

The shielding is great too: I tested it and couldn't hear any 60hz buzz when I placed a skinny unshielded 3.5mm cable parallel to the power cable and plugged the 3.5mm cable to the input of a 100w amp on max volume!

When I place the 3.5mm cable parallel to a normal power cable I can't turn the volume past 2 o'clock or so the buzz is so loud!


----------



## GrussGott

I just went to my Jot and plugged in my headphones, unplugged the RCA inputs, flipped to high gain, and slowly turned up the volume to max.

At max all I hear is a very low volume buzz only when I'm touching the volume pot - when I take my fingers off it goes to dead silent ... and there's a bunch of other power cords by it (it's by the TV and other stuff) and I live downtown in a city where there's a zillion wifi, bluetooth, and cell networks, e.g., I just checked and I'm picking up 22 wifi networks.

That said, I'm plugged into an old Monster cable AV700 surge protector which you can get for about $15 on ebay


----------



## JoeKickass

GrussGott said:


> I just went to my Jot and plugged in my headphones, unplugged the RCA inputs, flipped to high gain, and slowly turned up the volume to max.
> 
> At max all I hear is a very low volume buzz only when I'm touching the volume pot - when I take my fingers off it goes to dead silent ... and there's a bunch of other power cords by it (it's by the TV and other stuff) and I live downtown in a city where there's a zillion wifi, bluetooth, and cell networks, e.g., I just checked and I'm picking up 22 wifi networks.
> 
> That said, I'm plugged into an old Monster cable AV700 surge protector which you can get for about $15 on ebay


That's pretty cool, I think your body is acting as an antenna for the 60hz buzz!

You can try the same experiment but put a rca cable in the input and you should notice the buzz volume get louder the closer you the move the rca cable near your power cables. (tape or cover the other end of the rca so you don't get any loud surprises)

One of those cheap skinny RCA's should be less shielded and pick up more noise and act as a more sensitive antenna, you'll be able to find RF noise all around your home: anything with an inverter, your cell phone, wifi routers, etc.


----------



## sup27606

I have had great success using ferrite cores onto power cables for reducing interference noise. If one doesn't do the job, use two.


----------



## GrussGott (Nov 28, 2017)

JoeKickass said:


> That's pretty cool, I think your body is acting as an antenna for the 60hz buzz!
> 
> You can try the same experiment but put a rca cable in the input and you should notice the buzz volume get louder the closer you the move the rca cable near your power cables. (tape or cover the other end of the rca so you don't get any loud surprises)
> 
> One of those cheap skinny RCA's should be less shielded and pick up more noise and act as a more sensitive antenna, you'll be able to find RF noise all around your home: anything with an inverter, your cell phone, wifi routers, etc.



Hmmm, tried that with my extremely cheap 6' rca-trs cord and got no response at all - only when I touch the volume pot and it doesn't matter what I do with the open end of the RCA cable.  I even laid the rca cable over the power cord of a running air purifier - no 60 hz hum, only when I touch the volume pot.

I remain impressed at how much this Jot cleans up the sound - it's a lot more than I experienced out of the house and this is only single ended.

I'm going to play a month or so and then build a balanced HD600 cable ... not sure I have the guts to chop off the end of my TH-x00M, but I might grow a pair after I build the 600...


----------



## halibut11

Any thoughts on moving from a Magni 3 to a Jotunheim and running my HE-4XX's balanced? I also couldn't find much about Jotunheim pairing with the HE-400 series in general so thoughts on that would be great too.


----------



## DavidA

halibut11 said:


> Any thoughts on moving from a Magni 3 to a Jotunheim and running my HE-4XX's balanced? I also couldn't find much about Jotunheim pairing with the HE-400 series in general so thoughts on that would be great too.


How is the treble/highs on your TH-X00 and HE4XX with your current setup?  If its just right you may not like the Jot since to me its a slightly brighter amp compared to the Magni3 but if you want a little more sparkle in the highs and possibly better sound stage then the Jot might work for you.  You will have to mod the TH-X00 if you want to use it on the balanced output of the Jot


----------



## halibut11

DavidA said:


> How is the treble/highs on your TH-X00 and HE4XX with your current setup?  If its just right you may not like the Jot since to me its a slightly brighter amp compared to the Magni3 but if you want a little more sparkle in the highs and possibly better sound stage then the Jot might work for you.  You will have to mod the TH-X00 if you want to use it on the balanced output of the Jot



I could use a bit more sparkle with the Fostex's for sure, and after a bit of listening to the HE-4XX's I wouldn't mind some more too as of now- so I guess that answers my question. And yeah, I need to get a mod for the Fostex, but then I'll at least be able to use the same cable for both. Thanks for the input.


----------



## Tuneslover

halibut11 said:


> Any thoughts on moving from a Magni 3 to a Jotunheim and running my HE-4XX's balanced? I also couldn't find much about Jotunheim pairing with the HE-400 series in general so thoughts on that would be great too.



I don't have the HE400 but I do have the HE500 (balanced) and it does sound very detailed and perhaps a tad bright through my Jot.


----------



## MWSVette

To those who find the Jot a tad bright may I recommend the Schitt Loki.

Had always been happy with my Jot.  Even more with the Loki...


----------



## halibut11

Tuneslover said:


> I don't have the HE400 but I do have the HE500 (balanced) and it does sound very detailed and perhaps a tad bright through my Jot.



Good to know, I am close to Schiit's retail store so I may just pick up a balanced cable and go up there to try it out, if I don't like it I'll sell the balanced cable  I guess. Thanks for the input.



MWSVette said:


> To those who find the Jot a tad bright may I recommend the Schitt Loki.
> 
> Had always been happy with my Jot.  Even more with the Loki...



Loki is on my Christmas list so I may have even more of a reason to pick up a Jot. Thank you.


----------



## Tuneslover

MWSVette said:


> To those who find the Jot a tad bright may I recommend the Schitt Loki.
> 
> Had always been happy with my Jot.  Even more with the Loki...



Yup I'm planning on buying one very shortly.


----------



## canthearyou

Why does Schiit use FedEx? It's the absolute worse shipping service available! My Jot is 11 miles away from my house and it will now take 3 more days to get here. It traveled faster from Cali to Michigan than it will from one county to the next.

Hopefully it does not require a signature for delivery.


----------



## koover

canthearyou said:


> Why does Schiit use FedEx? It's the absolute worse shipping service available! My Jot is 11 miles away from my house and it will now take 3 more days to get here. It traveled faster from Cali to Michigan than it will from one county to the next.
> 
> Hopefully it does not require a signature for delivery.



Are you talking about the Schiit store 11 miles away? If so, I thought I read you could go right to their store and pick it up.


----------



## canthearyou

koover said:


> Are you talking about the Schiit store 11 miles away? If so, I thought I read you could go right to their store and pick it up.



No, it's at the FedEx location near me. But the office is closed today and tomorrow.


----------



## koover

Ah, I see. That's sucks man. I know the feeling waiting for something that you're Jones-ing for. Well anyway, I'm sorry you have to wait but it'll be that much more worth it. Please tell us how you like it when you finally get it and test drive it for a bit.


----------



## canthearyou

Haha! I go out and it's on my front porch. Lol


----------



## GrussGott (Dec 2, 2017)

canthearyou said:


> Why does Schiit use FedEx? It's the absolute worse shipping service available! My Jot is 11 miles away from my house and it will now take 3 more days to get here. It traveled faster from Cali to Michigan than it will from one county to the next.
> 
> Hopefully it does not require a signature for delivery.



Ha, I'm the opposite - I hate UPS, and FedEx has been working out, especially my Jot delivery.

I live in downtown silicon valley across the street from a UPS store and in the last 3 months they've failed to deliver 3 packages (2 from amazon, one from B&W).  And I now know when this is going to happen because the tracking will go from "order processed" to "out for delivery".  Then it doesn't show, then I call the shipper, UPS assures them it's on the truck and will be delivered today!  Then it isn't, then UPS tomorrow for sure!  Then it isn't.

This last time I drove down to the UPS distribution center and spoke with the manager - the weird thing was he looked it up on his computers and said,  "I don't show us as having it but they say we have it" (I don't understand how that happens but whatever) and then he called the driver who told him they don't have it, so he marked it as lost.  When I got back I called UPS and asked to speak with a manager and we spoke for an hour - he was a nice guy and knowledgable but at the end of the day my opinion is UPS is cracking at the seams; they are being over-run by volume they don't want to turn down, and their systems, process, and staffing can't handle it and aren't built for it.

FedEx on the other hand - SO FAR - has been great, their apps work, I was able to file a vacation hold on my Jotunheim and schedule other deliveries ... and they seem to have their shiit together.

It's going to be interesting if Amazon starts their own delivery service.


----------



## alpovs

GrussGott said:


> I live in downtown silicon valley across the street from a UPS store and in the last 3 months they've failed to deliver 3 packages


UPS stores are independent franchisers. They don't do deliveries.


----------



## alpovs

canthearyou said:


> Why does Schiit use FedEx? It's the absolute worse shipping service available! My Jot is 11 miles away from my house and it will now take 3 more days to get here. It traveled faster from Cali to Michigan than it will from one county to the next.
> 
> Hopefully it does not require a signature for delivery.


FedEx is better than UPS and USPS. What other options do you have?..


----------



## supervisor

canthearyou said:


> Haha! I go out and it's on my front porch. Lol



wow dude


----------



## GrussGott

alpovs said:


> UPS stores are independent franchisers. They don't do deliveries.



Yes but the point is presumably many UPS trucks are going to and from UPS stores, so they should know how to get to my address since I'm right across the street and probably on those truck's routes.


----------



## Alcophone

FedEx works great for me because I can redirect shipments to the Walgreens down the street, and so don't have to worry about being home when they deliver - I can just pick it up at Walgreens, which has great opening hours compared to similar destinations.


----------



## canthearyou

alpovs said:


> FedEx is better than UPS and USPS. What other options do you have?..


I've always had issues with FedEx. Never UPS and occasionally with USPS


----------



## cskippy

I always choose USPS if I can as they will usually deliver the fastest and if your package arrives at a local hub a day early, they will actually deliver it that day, before the scheduled delivery date.


----------



## koover

cskippy said:


> I always choose USPS if I can as they will usually deliver the fastest and if your package arrives at a local hub a day early, they will actually deliver it that day, before the scheduled delivery date.


My last 2 deliveries both came a day earlier. Always USPS.


----------



## FLTWS

alpovs said:


> UPS stores are independent franchisers. They don't do deliveries.



But, in this case the store is across the street. Can't the package be shipped to the store for pickup by the recipient instead of having it delivered by truck?


----------



## rkw

GrussGott said:


> Yes but the point is presumably many UPS trucks are going to and from UPS stores, so they should know how to get to my address since I'm right across the street and probably on those truck's routes.


It doesn't necessarily work that way. I can imagine them running routes that only do bulk pickup/delivery without side trips to individual residences.



FLTWS said:


> But, in this case the store is across the street. Can't the package be shipped to the store for pickup by the recipient instead of having it delivered by truck?


You can actually have it both ways. "UPS My Choice" allows you to designate an Access Point (such as a UPS Store) as an alternate location if you're not home when the delivery arrives. However, it sounds like GrussGott isn't even getting delivery attempts and they are losing track of the package.


----------



## canthearyou

I didn't mean to derail the thread discussing package carriers. 

In regards to my new Jot the very first thing I notice compared to my recently sold Liquid Carbon 2.0 is the bass presence. It always was lacking with the LC. I'll keep listening and give my take on the Jot.


----------



## cskippy

Jot brought my HD650 to life compared to LC.


----------



## GrussGott

canthearyou said:


> I didn't mean to derail the thread discussing package carriers.





rkw said:


> It doesn't necessarily work that way. I can imagine them running routes that only do bulk pickup/delivery without side trips to individual residences.  You can actually have it both ways. "UPS My Choice" allows you to designate an Access Point (such as a UPS Store) as an alternate location if you're not home when the delivery arrives. However, it sounds like GrussGott isn't even getting delivery attempts and they are losing track of the package.



Yeah, my point was more that I could understand missed deliveries if I lived in BF FarmTown or LabyrinthSubDivision but i'm in a major downtown metro with a very familiar address to the distribution center and UPS delivers hundreds of packages daily to my address.  It shouldn't be rocket science.  Further I have all of the UPS apps and accounts which is why I was able to talk to the manager at the distribution center.  The point is, everybody is nice, but UPS process/systems/people/technology are overloaded and I predict a horrific holiday season for them.

FedEx has not had that problem and they also were able to customize my delivery for my Jot ... but it WAS a bit annoying.  In order to set up custom deliveries, in addition to the apps, accounts, etc I also had to physically exchange USPS mail with them.  That was odd.  But hey, once I did it, now I can customize and, so far, I have a lot of confidence in FedEx.

Back to the Jot, one of my USPS deliveries was a spare HD600 cable and Neutrix XLR male plug.  I'm going to try to build a balanced cable and, if it works, I may do some surgery on my Th-x00 cable ...


----------



## Share2Care

Would any of you be so kind to know if or as and when the Jotunheim DAC board will be upgraded to USB Gen 5?

If the really awesome Schiit masters update the USB to the latest and what looks like outstanding GEN 5, would they update the DAC chips to the most recent meaning the latest DAC chips in balanced configuration as they currently are would be an amazing upgrade and hold true to their ethos of upgrades giving a real longevity to your purchase. 

Cheers


----------



## rkw

GrussGott said:


> In order to set up custom deliveries, in addition to the apps, accounts, etc I also had to physically exchange USPS mail with them.  That was odd.


I remember doing that. In their defense, I'm sure they implemented that protocol in response to getting scammed.


GrussGott said:


> Back to the Jot, one of my USPS deliveries was a spare HD600 cable and Neutrix XLR male plug.  I'm going to try to build a balanced cable and, if it works, I may do some surgery on my Th-x00 cable ...


I bought a premade cable. The Jot's powerful balanced output makes a small but noticeable difference, especially in the bass.


----------



## Alcophone

Share2Care said:


> Would any of you be so kind to know if or as and when the Jotunheim DAC board will be upgraded to USB Gen 5?
> 
> If the really awesome Schiit masters update the USB to the latest and what looks like outstanding GEN 5, would they update the DAC chips to the most recent meaning the latest DAC chips in balanced configuration as they currently are would be an amazing upgrade and hold true to their ethos of upgrades giving a real longevity to your purchase.
> 
> Cheers


It won't be, there's not enough space. But Schiit is working on their own USB implementation which should save some space. Whether that will translate to "gen 6 USB" for just Modi/Gadget or also for Jotunheim, I don't know.


----------



## freitz

Question for the Group.

Current set up - Audeze EL-8's with a Deckard Amp/Dac.

Looking at swapping my EL-8's Closed for Mr. Speakers AEON FLOW Closed.

How does the Jot compare to the Audeze Deckard? Is it a clear upgrade or more of a lateral move to different sound? I find the Deckard to be warm, however the EL-8's are a bit bright for me and fatigue over time.

Fred


----------



## DavidA

freitz said:


> Question for the Group.
> 
> Current set up - Audeze EL-8's with a Deckard Amp/Dac.
> 
> ...


While I haven't heard the Aeon I have the EL-8 open and don't consider it bright but it could be that mine are the original ones from 2014 which to me are warm with just a little sparkle.  The Jot to me was a slightly bright amp where it was not a good amp for the HD800, HD700, T1 and HE560 but was a great for the HD650.  FWIW I've never took a liking to any Mr Speaker headphones (Ether/EtherC, EtherC Flow, Alpha Dog and Alpha Prime) due to the tuning being a little off sounding to me.


----------



## earnmyturns

freitz said:


> Question for the Group.
> 
> Current set up - Audeze EL-8's with a Deckard Amp/Dac.
> 
> ...


Just commenting on the Jot>AFC pairing: doesn't sound bright to me, definitely not fatiguing, but this with the Bifrost multibit DAC, not with the Jot internal DAC (which I've never heard). There are some impressions around that suggest that Jot with internal DAC might be harsher in the highs than what I hear with the external DAC.


----------



## freitz

earnmyturns said:


> Just commenting on the Jot>AFC pairing: doesn't sound bright to me, definitely not fatiguing, but this with the Bifrost multibit DAC, not with the Jot internal DAC (which I've never heard). There are some impressions around that suggest that Jot with internal DAC might be harsher in the highs than what I hear with the external DAC.





EndGameSearch said:


> It has already been asked in this thread, but it has been quite some time.  I tried out the Aeons and loved the mids to uppers but their thinnest down below left certain tracks feeling incomplete.  I ended up going with LCD-XC's instead which sound excellent with Roon's DSP preset but there were still qualities of the Aeon that I missed.  That said, I decided to keep the XC's and just bought a pair of Aeons.
> 
> Now that these have been out for a while, it would be great to see some of the EQ tweaks people have made to fatten up the bass.  Parametric eq setting suggestions would be great, but if anyone happens to have a convolution filter that would work with Roon that would be even better.....



Isn't the Jot just a Magni 3 with the option to add a balanced Dac?


----------



## freitz

DavidA said:


> While I haven't heard the Aeon I have the EL-8 open and don't consider it bright but it could be that mine are the original ones from 2014 which to me are warm with just a little sparkle.  The Jot to me was a slightly bright amp where it was not a good amp for the HD800, HD700, T1 and HE560 but was a great for the HD650.  FWIW I've never took a liking to any Mr Speaker headphones (Ether/EtherC, EtherC Flow, Alpha Dog and Alpha Prime) due to the tuning being a little off sounding to me.



From your post (in your gallery)  it looks like you have the EL-8 Open I am specifically talking about the closed version of the EL-8


----------



## GrussGott (Dec 4, 2017)

freitz said:


> Isn't the Jot just a Magni 3 with the option to add a balanced Dac?



No.  Start with page 1 of this thread.


----------



## GrussGott (Dec 4, 2017)

earnmyturns said:


> Just commenting on the Jot>AFC pairing: doesn't sound bright to me, definitely not fatiguing, but this with the Bifrost multibit DAC, not with the Jot internal DAC (which I've never heard). There are some impressions around that suggest that Jot with internal DAC might be harsher in the highs than what I hear with the external DAC.



I had the AFC for some time, and only now the Jot, so can't comment on the AFC / Jot pairing, but I wasn't a huge fan of the AFC.  I found them bright and, on some songs (e.g., Eryka Badu) almost painful, while also being very light on the bass.  Older recordings, even masters, sounded to my ear like they were missing the bottom end.  Versus, say, the HD600s the AFCs were quite a bit more bright and missing bass ... and I can't imagine the Jot changing that given its sound signature.  That said, this is via tidal hifi using a mojo or mimby as a DAC so YMMV blah blah blah, just thought that might help.

Certainly the AFCs were the most comfy HPs I've tried though if you've already come to conclusions on sound.


----------



## earnmyturns

freitz said:


> Isn't the Jot just a Magni 3 with the option to add a balanced Dac?


No. The Jot is fully balanced. Jason gave a lot more details on the Magni 3 design in his forum a while ago.


----------



## earnmyturns

GrussGott said:


> I had the AFC for some time, and only now the Jot, so can't comment on the AFC / Jot pairing, but I wasn't a huge fan of the AFC.  I found them bright and, on some songs (e.g., Eryka Badu) almost painful, while also being very light on the bass.  Older recordings, even masters, sounded to my ear like they were missing the bottom end.  Versus, say, the HD600s the AFCs were quite a bit more bright and missing bass ... and I can't imagine the Jot changing that given its sound signature.  That said, this is via tidal hifi using a mojo or mimby as a DAC so YMMV blah blah blah, just thought that might help.
> 
> Certainly the AFCs were the most comfy HPs I've tried though if you've already come to conclusions on sound.


It may depend on what you listen to and your expectations. I'm very familiar with certain contemporary musicians both in live performance and in recording, and I don't find the AFC strident in the highs or lacking bass significantly compared with the live experience. Where it lacks somewhat is the lower midrange, and of course in staging, but that's a general headphone problem.


----------



## GrussGott

earnmyturns said:


> It may depend on what you listen to and your expectations. I'm very familiar with certain contemporary musicians both in live performance and in recording, and I don't find the AFC strident in the highs or lacking bass significantly compared with the live experience. Where it lacks somewhat is the lower midrange, and of course in staging, but that's a general headphone problem.



Yeah, fair points all, and it may be the mids I'm talking about missing versus the bass, but to my ear on older songs like B-52s Channel Z for example, the "bottom" of the song feels totally missing.  On EDM tracks like Bluetech there's bass, but to my ear it's more there rather than THERE, and there's no sub-bass to my ear versus, say, the B&W P9 which has tons of sub-bass that you feel.  I just didn't get that at all out of the AFC.  That's not to say the AFC were bad HPs for me, I really loved them, but as "accurate" HPs, and for that I'm preferring the HD600s.  If I had a large budget I would definitely have a set, but ultimately I traded them for the Fostex TH-X00 and HD600s


----------



## aisalen

I am planning to get Jotunheim with internal dac. I already have SMSL M8 dac, is anyone have experience pairing the Jotty with M8? Is the optional internal dac better for me to have? Thanks.


----------



## GrussGott

aisalen said:


> I am planning to get Jotunheim with internal dac. I already have SMSL M8 dac, is anyone have experience pairing the Jotty with M8? Is the optional internal dac better for me to have? Thanks.



Some would say the internal delta-sigma DAC doesn't to the Jot any favors and, given you're willing to spend $100 on an internal DAC, that money is better spent on the $249 Mimby DAC.

If it were me, I'd either use the M8 and save or just get the Mimby.


----------



## freitz

Has Anyone compared the Jot. with Dac Vs The Audeze Deckard?


----------



## aisalen

GrussGott said:


> Some would say the internal delta-sigma DAC doesn't to the Jot any favors and, given you're willing to spend $100 on an internal DAC, that money is better spent on the $249 Mimby DAC.
> 
> If it were me, I'd either use the M8 and save or just get the Mimby.


Thanks for the advice. If I will not purchase the hd650 to pair with the Jotty I am sure will get the Mimby.


----------



## kellte2

Nit picky question: does anyone experience any resistance when first turning the volume knob after a period of no use? It may be that the amp is relatively new and cold, but the knob almost has a slight stick when first adjusting the volume after a period of time without use. Afterward, the pot is smooth as can be.


----------



## cskippy

Yeah, mine is like that.  I actually like it as I usually don't touch the volume but if I do, I can "find" it.


----------



## kellte2

O


cskippy said:


> Yeah, mine is like that.  I actually like it as I usually don't touch the volume but if I do, I can "find" it.



Good point! Didn’t think about that, but might be better than the alternative: an overly sensitive pot. As long as it’s normal behavior, I am happy with it. 

Thanks!


----------



## FLTWS

I notice it on my Jot and MJ2, I don't think it means anything. Old habits die hard and I'm use to giving a volume control a couple of full range swipes before starting an preamp/amp especially if it's been sitting idle for a number of days. May not really be necessary with the newer pot designs. I'm thinking back to the 60's and 70's.


----------



## alpovs

kellte2 said:


> Nit picky question: does anyone experience any resistance when first turning the volume knob after a period of no use? It may be that the amp is relatively new and cold, but the knob almost has a slight stick when first adjusting the volume after a period of time without use. Afterward, the pot is smooth as can be.


Mine is like that, too.


----------



## cskippy

kellte2 said:


> O
> 
> 
> Good point! Didn’t think about that, but might be better than the alternative: an overly sensitive pot. As long as it’s normal behavior, I am happy with it.
> ...


Yup.  I tried a Liquid Gold once and the volume pot was so easy to turn you could bump it and possibly damage your ears by accident.


----------



## jimmers

kellte2 said:


> Nit picky question: does anyone experience any resistance when first turning the volume knob after a period of no use?


Yes, I do, doesn't bother me.


----------



## Tuneslover

cskippy said:


> Yup.  I tried a Liquid Gold once and the volume pot was so easy to turn you could bump it and possibly damage your ears by accident.



Project Ember has a really smooth volume knob too.


----------



## aisalen

Ordered one with the internal dac, will compare with my smsl m8 hear the difference. Pairing with the incoming hd650 to taste desktop setup. I am using speaker system at home and go mobile with wm1a and iems at work.


----------



## Zohoos

To my ears listening through er4-xr using jot fed by dragonfly red is far better than the internal dac, the clarity and separation is certainly a step up. Am I Illusioned?


----------



## JohannLiebert

Can I connect my Jotunheim to my playstation 4 and my ps4 to my acive speakers? Anyone tried this?


----------



## GrussGott

JohannLiebert said:


> Can I connect my Jotunheim to my playstation 4 and my ps4 to my acive speakers? Anyone tried this?


I have no idea how a playstation works, but if it has audio outputs that can be converted to RCA in on the Jot then why not?


----------



## dr cornelius

JohannLiebert said:


> Can I connect my Jotunheim to my playstation 4 and my ps4 to my acive speakers? Anyone tried this?



What outputs does PS4 have?  The Jot has one set of RCA and Balanced ins/outs.  Also, it doesn’t have optical or coax dig inputs, just optional USB...  The RCA or Balanced outs will go to your powered speakers...


----------



## JohannLiebert

It has one digital out only.


----------



## rkw

JohannLiebert said:


> It has one digital out only.


Then you would also need a DAC between the PS4 and Jotunheim.


----------



## JohannLiebert

I have the focusrite 2i2. It is not a dac though. Wouldnt' do right?
 I was eyeing with the iDSD micro as well.


----------



## H-Money

rkw said:


> Then you would also need a DAC between the PS4 and Jotunheim.



You can plug a USB Dac into the PS4.


----------



## JohannLiebert

The Jotunheim Black comes with a module dac. With that I wont need a further dac, right?


----------



## Alcophone

JohannLiebert said:


> The Jotunheim Black comes with a module dac. With that I wont need a further dac, right?


That's correct.


----------



## rkw

JohannLiebert said:


> The Jotunheim Black comes with a module dac.


Black is just the case color. You still have to order the DAC module separately.

I guess I was mistaken in my previous post. You had described the PS4 as "_It has one digital out only_" and I presumed you meant the Toslink optical port.


----------



## zmhaha

Any word or speculation on when Jot 2 might come out?


----------



## Alcophone

zmhaha said:


> Any word or speculation on when Jot 2 might come out?


When society is ready to accept it as it is.
But definitely before Jot 3.


----------



## JoeKickass

zmhaha said:


> Any word or speculation on when Jot 2 might come out?


Jason said the Jotunheim was basically 4 years in the making, so I would expect the Jot 2 to land around 2020 or so.


----------



## zmhaha

JoeKickass said:


> Jason said the Jotunheim was basically 4 years in the making, so I would expect the Jot 2 to land around 2020 or so.



Well they don't have to start scratch.. just some improvements upon the original, as the 1,2,3, etc...iterative naming suggest.


----------



## GrussGott

zmhaha said:


> Well they don't have to start scratch.. just some improvements upon the original, as the 1,2,3, etc...iterative naming suggest.



Also the Jot has an expansion port so .... maybe the "jot 2" is a expansion.  After all, that's part of the core design.


----------



## MarkF786

I was thinking of getting a Valhalla 2 to use with my HD600/650/800S headphones.  I currently am using a Jot and Bimby, both which I plan to keep.  Rather than swapping cables from the Bimby to the two preamps, I plan to chain the two but my question is what order would be best: Jot -> Valhalla or Valhall to Jot.

I'll experiment when I get the Valhalla 2, but I was curious if anyone else has experience with chaining these two amps.


----------



## Alcophone

MarkF786 said:


> I was thinking of getting a Valhalla 2 to use with my HD600/650/800S headphones.  I currently am using a Jot and Bimby, both which I plan to keep.  Rather than swapping cables from the Bimby to the two preamps, I plan to chain the two but my question is what order would be best: Jot -> Valhalla or Valhall to Jot.
> 
> I'll experiment when I get the Valhalla 2, but I was curious if anyone else has experience with chaining these two amps.


You don't have to swap cables, you could use RCA splitters to send Bimby's output to both amps at the same time (great for A/B testing, too), or use a SYS in reverse (with its volume turned up all the way) to switch outputs.
Otherwise, you should just try and see what works best for you, it's easy to switch after all. My hunch is that Valhalla to Jot makes more sense than the other way around, since you're effectively mimicking a tube/solid state hybrid at that point (I think the tubes in hybrids are used in the gain stage, which is then amplified by the solid state part, but I'm not sure).


----------



## koover (Dec 24, 2017)

Alcophone said:


> You don't have to swap cables, you could use RCA splitters to send Bimby's output to both amps at the same time (great for A/B testing, too), or use a SYS in reverse (with its volume turned up all the way) to switch outputs.
> Otherwise, you should just try and see what works best for you, it's easy to switch after all. My hunch is that Valhalla to Jot makes more sense than the other way around, since you're effectively mimicking a tube/solid state hybrid at that point (I think the tubes in hybrids are used in the gain stage, which is then amplified by the solid state part, but I'm not sure).


That’s how I have mine set up but with a Mimby/Sys/Lyr2/Jot. Works like a charm. Quick push of a button on Sys, input of HP cable into other amp and you’re ready to rock and roll. Sys runs you $49 plus a couple sets of RCA cables if needed. Of course as stated above, a splitter will work too and is a whole lot cheaper but I like the esthetics and ergonomics. I absolutely love this set-up as it’s really convenient. It’s great for A/B’ing amps, certain tracks and especially checking out different tubes.


----------



## StageOne

koover said:


> That’s how I have mine set up but with a Mimby/Sys/Lyr2/Jot. Works like a charm. Quick push of a button on Sys, input of HP cable into other amp and you’re ready to rock and roll. Sys runs you $49 plus a couple sets of RCA cables if needed. Of course as stated above, a splitter will work too and is a whole lot cheaper but I like the esthetics and ergonomics. I absolutely love this set-up as it’s really convenient. It’s great for A/B’ing amps, certain tracks and especially checking out different tubes.



I was looking at both the Lyr and Jot for my next amp to pair with HD650s and TH-X00s, which do you think you use the most with those HPs?


----------



## koover (Dec 24, 2017)

I use the Jot so sparingly ever since I got the LYR2. I have so many different tubes to roll  that enables me to change the sound to whatever mood I happen to be in at that time and for my many other HP’s.

I love the LYR2 with the TH-X00 Purplehearts because I can tame the treble to a level I’m comfortable with if I’m tired and fatigued. I can actually get some more punch and slam with a specific tube  even though this is a very strong HP with bass and I can also bring the mids more forward.

I’ve just become a real fan of tubes but still like the Jot A LOT with the 650 as it’s a brighter amp. They both serve their purpose as it’s just a matter of taste. The 650 sounds sublime with the right tube. That’s why I have both but always seem to power up the LYR2 first and foremost. 

Schiit also has their return policy so if you don’t like one of them, you can return it within 30 days?


----------



## Alcophone

koover said:


> Schiit also has their return policy so if you don’t like one of them, you can return it within 30 days?


15 days, with 5% restocking fee


----------



## koover

Alcophone said:


> 15 days, with 5% restocking fee


Had a feeling I'd need some help with that one! Thanx for the clarification.


----------



## sweetben

Do you (the people in this forum) think the actual headphone amp section of the JOT is good enough to justify pairing it with a high end (expensive) DAC, like the Chord 2Qute?


----------



## rkw (Dec 25, 2017)

sweetben said:


> Do you (the people in this forum) think the actual headphone amp section of the JOT is good enough to justify pairing it with a high end (expensive) DAC, like the Chord 2Qute?


Yes. However, as with any headphone amp you should really be looking at how well it pairs with your headphone, rather than the DAC.

Note that on the relative scale of audiophile equipment, 2Qute isn't high end, more like mid-level. Among Chord's DAC products, it is actually towards their lower end.


----------



## leafy7382

sweetben said:


> Do you (the people in this forum) think the actual headphone amp section of the JOT is good enough to justify pairing it with a high end (expensive) DAC, like the Chord 2Qute?



Yes, I use my Jot with Yggdrasil (balanced) and HD650 (balanced), but I did replace the standard power cable of the Jot with a 14awg (or, thicker) so that the bass extends a lot deeper.


----------



## earnmyturns

sweetben said:


> Do you (the people in this forum) think the actual headphone amp section of the JOT is good enough to justify pairing it with a high end (expensive) DAC, like the Chord 2Qute?


In my experience, absolutely. For a while, I was really enjoying Holo Spring KTE 3>Jot>MrSpeakers Ether C Flow. To improve slightly on that with solid-state amplification, I had to go 3x price with a Neurochrome HP-1. Honestly, I could have stayed really happy with the Jot if I had not been able to borrow an HP-1 to do extensive side-by-side comparisons. But note that I listen mostly to well-recorded modern jazz, modern classical, Iberian/Mediterranean medieval and Renaissance, Baroque, West African music, mostly acoustic, and the relative warmth of the Holo Spring in NOS mode is as far along that axis as I care to go. Other listeners find the Jot too forward and much prefer warmer amps.


----------



## StageOne

koover said:


> I use the Jot so sparingly ever since I got the LYR2. I have so many different tubes to roll  that enables me to change the sound to whatever mood I happen to be in at that time and for my many other HP’s.
> 
> I love the LYR2 with the TH-X00 Purplehearts because I can tame the treble to a level I’m comfortable with if I’m tired and fatigued. I can actually get some more punch and slam with a specific tube  even though this is a very strong HP with bass and I can also bring the mids more forward.
> 
> ...



Great, thanks for the info.  I have a Schiit M/M Uber stack and a Bottlehead crack so Im aware of the fun of tube rolling    Seems like the Lyr might be the better choice for me.


----------



## Alcophone

leafy7382 said:


> I think Jot deserves better power cable then the stock. The stock cable is a 18awg power cord, I was happy with it until I swapped it out with a 14 awg cable. The low notes hit a lot harder with more sense of presence. It's a $10 no-brainer swap.





JoeKickass said:


> I upgraded my Jot with a shielded power cable to reduce noise, they are dirt cheap so if you want a 14 awg there's no penalty other than thickness and stiffness, personally I went with 16 awg:
> 
> 18 awg - https://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=17600-10-B1
> 16 awg - https://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=17602-10-B1
> ...


Gonna try this soon, and once my friend gives me my second Jot back, I can even do a direct A/B comparison.

Standard 18 AWG vs TrippLite 14 AWG:


----------



## MWSVette (Dec 31, 2017)

I will not make any statements about any changes in sound signature, however I have a bunch of these and have found them to be of good quality.

Pangea AC-14 .6m Power Cables

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0030ELBG...e=df0&creative=395129&creativeASIN=B0030ELBGK


----------



## Alcophone

MWSVette said:


> I will not make any statements about any changes in sound signature, however I have a bunch of these and have found them to be of good quality.
> 
> Pangea AC-14 .6m Power Cables
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Pangea-Audio...sr=8-1&keywords=Pangea+AC-14+.6m+Power+Cables


You probably mean this one (the one you linked to doesn't fit any of Schiit's products): https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0030ELBGK/


----------



## MWSVette

Alcophone said:


> You probably mean this one (the one you linked to doesn't fit any of Schiit's products): https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0030ELBGK/





Yep, you are right clicked the wrong one.  My bad, thanks for the correction updated my original post...


----------



## koover

MWSVette said:


> I will not make any statements about any changes in sound signature, however I have a bunch of these and have found them to be of good quality.
> 
> Pangea AC-14 .6m Power Cables
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0030ELBG...e=df0&creative=395129&creativeASIN=B0030ELBGK


I’m having quite a bit of static issues and I cannot take the poor sound issues I’m experiencing. 
I’ve ripped everything apart, cleaned it up and hooked everything back up again and it really didn’t solve my problem. Will updating the power cords on both the Schiit amp and Dac “possibly” clean it up? I running USB through a PC tower.


----------



## cskippy

koover said:


> I’m having quite a bit of static issues and I cannot take the poor sound issues I’m experiencing.
> I’ve ripped everything apart, cleaned it up and hooked everything back up again and it really didn’t solve my problem. Will updating the power cords on both the Schiit amp and Dac “possibly” clean it up? I running USB through a PC tower.


Hey man!  Try and work this backwards.  Start with just Jot powered on with no inputs connected and see if there is noise.  if there isn't any, add the next component in the chain, presumably SYS?  Then Mimby.  See at what point the noise starts.  You might have a ground loop, and they are tricky beasts to solve.  I forego any direct USB connection as your almost guaranteed to get some form of hash, noise, or static from the computer.  I use Eitr or optical connection as they both break the ground connection and are electrically isolating.


----------



## koover

cskippy said:


> Hey man!  Try and work this backwards.  Start with just Jot powered on with no inputs connected and see if there is noise.  if there isn't any, add the next component in the chain, presumably SYS?  Then Mimby.  See at what point the noise starts.  You might have a ground loop, and they are tricky beasts to solve.  I forego any direct USB connection as your almost guaranteed to get some form of hash, noise, or static from the computer.  I use Eitr or optical connection as they both break the ground connection and are electrically isolating.


Thanks for replying man. When I get some time, I'll give it a whirl. I like the idea of adding the Eitr into the chain as that seems it will take care of it for the most part.


----------



## GrussGott

koover said:


> Thanks for replying man. When I get some time, I'll give it a whirl. I like the idea of adding the Eitr into the chain as that seems it will take care of it for the most part.



I definitely had issues (ground loop or other?) with both the Mojo as a DAC and running through a high quality surge protector.  I replaced the 18awg power with a 14awg ($6 on amazon) and plugged directly in the wall - this fixed that non-Mojo problems.

The Mojo problem I fixed by replacing it with an Eitr / Mimby  - now I have zero noise including when I touch the volume pot which was the last place where I was getting an issue.


----------



## koover

GrussGott said:


> I definitely had issues (ground loop or other?) with both the Mojo as a DAC and running through a high quality surge protector.  I replaced the 18awg power with a 14awg ($6 on amazon) and plugged directly in the wall - this fixed that non-Mojo problems.
> 
> The Mojo problem I fixed by replacing it with an Eitr / Mimby  - now I have zero noise including when I touch the volume pot which was the last place where I was getting an issue.


Well it seems like a no brainer to pick up an Eitr then. I mean what’s the point in investing in nice headphones, good/descent/great gear only to have all this noise. Just ruins whatever you’re listening too. Thanx to you both for the Eitr comments as it pretty much sold me.


----------



## Alcophone (Jan 1, 2018)

I'll be damned, the 6ft 14 AWG power cord from Tripp-Lite actually sounds a bit better than the included 6ft 18 AWG power cord. Sharper transients, instruments are a bit more natural, bass is cleaner.

How I tested it: two Jotunheims, connected to the iFi nano iDSD with PYST cables and Audioquest RCA splitters, volume matched by ear, one using the stock power cord, the other one the 14 AWG power cord. Let both warm up for an hour or so, then went back and forth, mostly with songs from David Chesky's headphone test album. Consistently liked the thicker cable better. Turned both amps off, swapped power cords, switched both back on, same thing. The one with the thicker power cord sounded better. That should also rule out volume matching issues, I did not alter the volume when I swapped the cords.

As so often, it's a pretty subtle difference, but not very hard to notice in this case.

Confirmation bias is still a factor. I didn't expect to hear a difference, but was hoping I would. Also, there are additional differences between the cords besides the claimed wire gauge.

Edit: I listened for differences with the MrSpeakers Ether Flow and the standard 6ft 4-pin XLR DUM cable.


----------



## 486930

Hi. Need advice. Since I've crossed over to headphones (having toddlers will do that) I'm on the lookout for a headphone amp with inbuilt phono. Is the Jotunheim my best (or only) bet if I wish to stay in that price range? Or maybe there is an headphone amp that has both a great DAC and a great phonostage? My headphones aren't too hard to drive (Hifiman HE4XX and Aeon Flow Closed).

Thanks


----------



## jimmers (Jan 2, 2018)

Malmbak said:


> Hi. Need advice. Since I've crossed over to headphones (having toddlers will do that) I'm on the lookout for a headphone amp with inbuilt phono. Is the Jotunheim my best (or only) bet if I wish to stay in that price range? Or maybe there is an headphone amp that has both a great DAC and a great phonostage? My headphones aren't too hard to drive (Hifiman HE4XX and Aeon Flow Closed).
> 
> Thanks


If I wanted a good headphone amp with phono I would go for the Jot with phono as I love my Jot, otherwise I'd google "phono stage headphone amp", the What Hi-Fi result has at least one suggestion that has head amp, phono and DAC (and an ADC so you can digitise your vinyl).


----------



## 486930

Thank you. I'll get the Jotunheim...


----------



## joeexp

Alcophone said:


> I'll be damned, the 6ft 14 AWG power cord from Tripp-Lite actually sounds a bit better than the included 6ft 18 AWG power cord. Sharper transients, instruments are a bit more natural, bass is cleaner.
> 
> How I tested it: two Jotunheims, connected to the iFi nano iDSD with PYST cables and Audioquest RCA splitters, volume matched by ear, one using the stock power cord, the other one the 14 AWG power cord. Let both warm up for an hour or so, then went back and forth, mostly with songs from David Chesky's headphone test album. Consistently liked the thicker cable better. Turned both amps off, swapped power cords, switched both back on, same thing. The one with the thicker power cord sounded better. That should also rule out volume matching issues, I did not alter the volume when I swapped the cords.
> 
> ...




Please! - Not again.
I challenge anybody making such claims, to be able to spot which is which, in a blind test.
Save your money and spend it on better headphones/DAC! instead.

Cheers!


----------



## Alcophone

joeexp said:


> Please! - Not again.
> I challenge anybody making such claims, to be able to spot which is which, in a blind test.
> Save your money and spend it on better headphones/DAC! instead.
> 
> Cheers!


Yeah, you're right. Instead of spending $1,799.99 on my Ether Flow, I could have gotten something much better for $1804.79. What a waste of $4.80.


----------



## JoeKickass

I replaced all my power cords with fully shielded versions to get rid of a low 60hz buzz I got from running my signal cables too close to them, the shielded cables effectively lowered my noise floor!

Since they were so cheap I did increase the awg size to 14awg for the big things and 16 awg for lower power devices, but I'm not sure I have good enough ears to hear that difference.

14 awg Shielded for $12
16 awg Shielded for $10
18 awg Shielded for  $6​


----------



## koover

JoeKickass said:


> I replaced all my power cords with fully shielded versions to get rid of a low 60hz buzz I got from running my signal cables too close to them, the shielded cables effectively lowered my noise floor!
> 
> Since they were so cheap I did increase the awg size to 14awg for the big things and 16 awg for lower power devices, but I'm not sure I have good enough ears to hear that difference.
> 
> ...


Imo, you’re not going to hear a difference in sound. What I mean is better bass/separation/soundstage, etc, but I will agree you can clean up some noise/static/ etc. issues. My take only!


----------



## MWSVette

Anytime you want to see a thread go rapidly south.

Start talking cables...


----------



## Alcophone

I realized another flaw in my approach. I only swapped the end of the cable that goes into the power supply. I never swapped their position in the power strip. So it's possible that whichever Jotunheim was connected to the thinner cord was affected by noise from the other Jotunheim (the thicker cable was closer to the end of the power strip that has the cable). I don't know whether there's any directionality to the way noise travels in a power strip, though. Something to retest when I have both amps in the same place again, I guess. Hopefully with a buddy that can facilitate a blind test.


----------



## Zachik

JoeKickass said:


> I replaced all my power cords with fully shielded versions to get rid of a low 60hz buzz I got from running my signal cables too close to them, the shielded cables effectively lowered my noise floor!
> 
> Since they were so cheap I did increase the awg size to 14awg for the big things and 16 awg for lower power devices, but I'm not sure I have good enough ears to hear that difference.
> 
> ...


I wish they had shorter power cords... for 14 AWG, 2 meters (6.5 ft) is the shortest. 3-4 ft would have been so much better (for my setup).


----------



## FLTWS

Zachik said:


> I wish they had shorter power cords... for 14 AWG, 2 meters (6.5 ft) is the shortest. 3-4 ft would have been so much better (for my setup).



Your right, the last thing I have to do with my HP station is shorten some cords. I've got a large wad of coiled up AC cables hanging off the back of my rack, looks like a festering boil.
Should be easy enough to clip off the 3 prong plugs and get some replacements at the hardware store.
Not sure where the shield would attach, (the ground I guess). Also not sure if both or only one end of the shield should be grounded.
That being said, all my manufacturer supplied cords are not shielded except for the RH5, I may not need to concern myself.
But I'll buy some replacement cords to butcher and trim to just the right amount of length so there will be no loops, coils etc., should look better that way. Sound better, probably not.
As luck would have it all my equipment's AC connections are on the left rear with everything else to the right rear so I haven't had to deal with any crossover of AC/signal cables.


----------



## MWSVette

Zachik said:


> I wish they had shorter power cords... for 14 AWG, 2 meters (6.5 ft) is the shortest. 3-4 ft would have been so much better (for my setup).





That is why I use these,

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0030ELBG...e=df0&creative=395129&creativeASIN=B0030ELBGK

They come in various lengths from 0.6m to 5m.  I have 8 pieces of equipment all plugged into my Panamax Max 5300.  It was a cable nightmare until I bought the cables I needed by length.  

Plus they are quality made and look good.

Whether there is any change in sound quality, well....


----------



## Alcophone

The Tripp-Lite cords (unshielded) are also available in various lengths. The 6ft version is an Amazon add-on article and thus cheaper than the 3ft one, but they are still all so cheap that I would just get whatever length you need.


----------



## Zachik

MWSVette said:


> That is why I use these,
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0030ELBG...e=df0&creative=395129&creativeASIN=B0030ELBGK
> 
> They come in various lengths from 0.6m to 5m.  I have 8 pieces of equipment all plugged into my Panamax Max 5300.  It was a cable nightmare until I bought the cables I needed by length.


I was looking at the Pangea cables, but they're approx. *3 times the price* of the Volex cables referenced earlier...
They do look great, and get good reviews. I also use a Panamax power management (though a cheaper MR4000). Maybe I will splurge for those... sigh...


----------



## Zachik

Alcophone said:


> The Tripp-Lite cords (unshielded) are also available in various lengths. The 6ft version is an Amazon add-on article and thus cheaper than the 3ft one, but they are still all so cheap that I would just get whatever length you need.


I actually wonder whether shielded vs. non-shielded make any difference? 
Not trying to derail the thread too much, but on a Schiit Jot - could anyone who tried both shielded and non-shielded comment?


----------



## joeexp (Jan 3, 2018)

Alcophone said:


> Yeah, you're right. Instead of spending $1,799.99 on my Ether Flow, I could have gotten something much better for $1804.79. What a waste of $4.80.



What a waste of $1,000.00
For $799.99 you could have gotten yourself the AEON Flow, which looks and sounds better.


----------



## Alcophone

joeexp said:


> What a waste of $1,000.00
> For $799.99 you could have gotten yourself the AEON Flow, which looks and sounds better.


Looks better? Yes. Sounds better? lol, no. Less punchy, less bass extension, recessed mids. The closed one sounds okay to me (though not really better than the much cheaper Focal Listen, surprisingly), but the open one I didn't like because of the mids. The HD660S sounded more balanced to me. But the Ether Flows are great, just love em.


----------



## Peter Ong

joeexp said:


> Please! - Not again.
> I challenge anybody making such claims, to be able to spot which is which, in a blind test.
> Save your money and spend it on better headphones/DAC! instead.
> 
> Cheers!


I wholeheartedly agree. It’s not about the cables. It’s all in choosing the right Velcro zip-tie.


----------



## joeexp

Peter Ong said:


> I wholeheartedly agree. It’s not about the cables. It’s all in choosing the right Velcro zip-tie.



I'm glad you got your priorities right.


----------



## GearMe

I assume you're buying the _anti-resonant_, velcro zip-ties!


----------



## Share2Care

Hey Yall 

Currently enjoying my Jot but looking to expand.Really am not sure where I can go with the Jot, to be honest. A tube element would be great...From looking at the back panel it has Pre Out sockets - Could I connect say Freya?

I added the Dac card for my Jot which was essential and is really enjoyed. Is it worth the money in terms of noticeable quality being heard and felt to go for Modi Multibit Dac?

Feeling a little lost in the direction that I want to progress as a sure many of us do. I want a top DAC and Amp which has headphone outs in an SE and Balanced format.

Your advice and guidance are really appreciated!


----------



## MarkF786

Alcophone said:


> I'll be damned, the 6ft 14 AWG power cord from Tripp-Lite actually sounds a bit better than the included 6ft 18 AWG power cord. Sharper transients, instruments are a bit more natural, bass is cleaner.



You need to get a Shakti Stone next:

http://www.shakti-innovations.com/product/shakti-stone/


----------



## Luckyleo

I've had the akg-701 for years.  Bought the AKG-7xx a month or so ago.  Always a good "can" enjoyed it, but it was never my go-to headphone.  Today, I put it with my Jotumheim, and OMG, what a frigging tremendous phone.  Never in my life would I have thought these things were capable of what I'm hearing. Huge sound stage.  Weak bass??? NOT HERE buddy! Not for bass heads, but much, much, more that I've ever heard.   Unbelievable.  A so-so headphone, is now my go-to phone.  Unbelievable.... ( I said it again with a smile on my face . )


----------



## rawrster (Jan 13, 2018)

I got back into headphones recently and ended up purchasing this amp. I have a Yulong D100 dac and HE-560 balanced as the other parts of my chain. There are obvious weak links however I didn't want to spend much and got everything for under 1k. I bought some xlr mic cables for $20 to use which would probably give some people here a heart attack.

I've owned a few Schiit amps in the past (Lyr 2 and original Mjolnir) and enjoyed both of them. So far, the setup sounds good with nothing to complain about. I was a bit worried about the pairing however luckily no issues there. It sounds better than I expected especially at this price range.

On another note I wish Schiit had a smaller balanced dac that would stack well with these. I know the bifrost is there however I'm using the rca for something else. The obvious solution would probably be the dac module however I haven't heard good things about it and I already owned a dac so didn't want to waste money on that.


----------



## Swiftfalcon

Luckyleo said:


> I've had the akg-701 for years.  Bought the AKG-7xx a month or so ago.  Always a good "can" enjoyed it, but it was never my go-to headphone.  Today, I put it with my Jotumheim, and OMG, what a frigging tremendous phone.  Never in my life would I have thought these things were capable of what I'm hearing. Huge sound stage.  Weak bass??? NOT HERE buddy! Not for bass heads, but much, much, more that I've ever heard.   Unbelievable.  A so-so headphone, is now my go-to phone.  Unbelievable.... ( I said it again with a smile on my face . )


Yeah the jotunheim has that ability...it can push mid fi headphones very close Into the flagship territory. I think its partly the balanced output power and partly the implementation.


----------



## Luckyleo

Hi all, 

Late to this great amp/dac combo discussion.  I have been using it in this configuration with AKG 701, Senn 660S, Grado Head F1.  All of the headphones benefit from this great piece of equipment.  Ordered a Moon Audio balanced cable for the Senn.  Oh my... What a difference.  Wider sound stage, very tight base, and beautiful minds. Sounds as if it’s a completely different headphone.  My Joti will be a keeper for the long haul!


----------



## Phasor

Hi,
How would the pairing of the Jotunheim work Audeze LCD-2's? Right now I'm using the Lyr 2 and Bimby but considering getting the Gumby in the future and figured the balanced inputs on Jotunheim would work well with the Gumby. Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks


----------



## Suopermanni

Phasor said:


> Hi,
> How would the pairing of the Jotunheim work Audeze LCD-2's? Right now I'm using the Lyr 2 and Bimby but considering getting the Gumby in the future and figured the balanced inputs on Jotunheim would work well with the Gumby. Any info would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks



Have used LCD 2.2 with Gumby/Jot and it does work well in my opinion.


----------



## Phasor

Thanks for the info...Looks like I might just have to give that combo a try.


Suopermanni said:


> Have used LCD 2.2 with Gumby/Jot and it does work well in my opinion.


----------



## Theabs

I have my Jot paired with a Nuprime DAC-9, along with a Lexicon RT-10 disc player, and I'm extremely happy with the sound I'm getting. For cans, using predominantly Pioneer SE-A1000, Massdrop HE-4XX & HD-6XX.


----------



## Phasor

Well I ordered the Jot/Gumby combo earlier this week but there is a Gumby production delay so looks like sometime in early Feb before it ships...oh well, I will keep listening to the Lyr2/Bimby for awhile longer. So at least I will still have my music. I do look forward to receiving the other combo.


----------



## Dabbaranks

Hi everyone, was wondering if I could get some help troubleshooting a constant hiss I'm having. I have already read most of the posts regarding the hiss someone else had but seemed to be dac related. I think mine might be amp or cable related. Set up is PC USB > Fulla 2 > Jot with 3.5 to RCA out.

On high gain with HE400i's I'm hearing a hiss with no music playing at about 9-10 am on the pot. Now, if I unplug the RCA cable the hiss goes away and I can go max and hear nothing at all. So I'm wondering if it's my 10 dollar amazon J&D cable thats causing this hiss? My Fulla 2 Headphone out doesn't have a hiss at max either. 

Thanks in advance,


----------



## Cruxiaer

Dabbaranks said:


> Hi everyone, was wondering if I could get some help troubleshooting a constant hiss I'm having. I have already read most of the posts regarding the hiss someone else had but seemed to be dac related. I think mine might be amp or cable related. Set up is PC USB > Fulla 2 > Jot with 3.5 to RCA out.
> 
> On high gain with HE400i's I'm hearing a hiss with no music playing at about 9-10 am on the pot. Now, if I unplug the RCA cable the hiss goes away and I can go max and hear nothing at all. So I'm wondering if it's my 10 dollar amazon J&D cable thats causing this hiss? My Fulla 2 Headphone out doesn't have a hiss at max either.
> 
> Thanks in advance,


Yes, badly built cable can cause hissing in your audio but that doesn't mean you should go for really expensive cable. Just get something reasonably well built like AmazonBasics RCA cables which go for $8.99 a pair.


----------



## rkw

Dabbaranks said:


> Set up is PC USB > Fulla 2 > Jot with 3.5 to RCA out.


Are you using fixed or variable line out on the Fulla 2? If using variable, how high is it turned up?


----------



## Dabbaranks

Cruxiaer said:


> Yes, badly built cable can cause hissing in your audio but that doesn't mean you should go for really expensive cable. Just get something reasonably well built like AmazonBasics RCA cables which go for $8.99 a pair.



Oh, thanks! I might just have to try that first since it’s a cheap solution.



rkw said:


> Are you using fixed or variable line out on the Fulla 2? If using variable, how high is it turned up?



I’m using it fixed and variable out to control my powered monitors.


----------



## Dabbaranks

I’m back to update, I went for the 8.99 Amazon basics cable 3.5mm to RCA and while it is a bit nicer built than the j&D I was using, the hissing noise hasn’t changed at all it’s still pretty easy to hear when I’m not playing music.

Would love to have no noise at all since I read in here that others can turn it all the way up even max gain and still have no hiss, but it’s definitely not bugging me unless I’m listening to quiet tracks that need the volume higher than average. 

Thanks for the help,


----------



## alpovs

Dabbaranks said:


> I’m back to update, I went for the 8.99 Amazon basics cable 3.5mm to RCA and while it is a bit nicer built than the j&D I was using, the hissing noise hasn’t changed at all it’s still pretty easy to hear when I’m not playing music.
> 
> Would love to have no noise at all since I read in here that others can turn it all the way up even max gain and still have no hiss, but it’s definitely not bugging me unless I’m listening to quiet tracks that need the volume higher than average.
> 
> Thanks for the help,


It's a ground loop. Such questions come up in this thread from time to time. Search this thread for "ground loop" or see this post and references therein.


----------



## Dabbaranks (Feb 7, 2018)

alpovs said:


> It's a ground loop. Such questions come up in this thread from time to time. Search this thread for "ground loop" or see this post and references therein.



Thank you so much, after reading that it makes a lot of sense. I was using a surge protector and after plugging my Fulla and jot into the wall for power the noise has significantly decreased but will still hear it past 12 o clock. 

Will be trying to use a 2 prong adapter for my jot as mentioned in past posts. However the USB power on my Fulla might be interfering too, but at least currently at my normal listening levels I don’t notice the noise anymore.  Thanks everyone for the help.


----------



## cskippy

Try using a cheap powered usb hub for Fulla if you have one lying around.


----------



## alpovs

I also remember Schiit recommended this Ebtech Hum X Ground Line Voltage Filter several times. I have no experience with it, though.


----------



## Dabbaranks

cskippy said:


> Try using a cheap powered usb hub for Fulla if you have one lying around.




Wouldn’t this be worse than having the Fulla powered by a USB wall watt currently? 



alpovs said:


> I also remember Schiit recommended this Ebtech Hum X Ground Line Voltage Filter several times. I have no experience with it, though.




That seems pretty pricey, but amazon Canada actually doesn’t have any cheap 3 to 2 prong adapters, might actually have to go to a store heh


----------



## cskippy

Dabbaranks said:


> Wouldn’t this be worse than having the Fulla powered by a USB wall watt currently?


I was thinking uf the USB shared power and data but if it's just for power than disregard my suggestion.


----------



## alpovs

Dabbaranks said:


> That seems pretty pricey, but amazon Canada actually doesn’t have any cheap 3 to 2 prong adapters, might actually have to go to a store heh


Maybe because they are almost illegal to sell. Check Dollarama or No Frills.


----------



## Dabbaranks (Feb 9, 2018)

cskippy said:


> I was thinking uf the USB shared power and data but if it's just for power than disregard my suggestion.



Sooo after some more testing after getting home from work, I think it’s just the crappy USB signal coming from my pc. Unplugging the USB that’s strictly for power to the Fulla 2 will increase the hiss, unplugging the USB for data the hiss dissappears and if I touch the tip of the USB to the port I can’t already start to hear some hiss.

I think my solution is either USB signal cleaner like a Wyrd, a dac with optical in, or a new computer :S

Thanks everyone again for your time, really helped me figure out the issue, I actually don’t think it’s a ground loop issue anymore as I don’t see the difference going from wall power to a surge protected battery powered power strip.


----------



## cskippy

Yup, crappy USB then.  Don't bother with Wyrd.  Use that money towards a better DAC and lose USB or get Eitr and run coax into a DAC.


----------



## Dabbaranks

cskippy said:


> Yup, crappy USB then.  Don't bother with Wyrd.  Use that money towards a better DAC and lose USB or get Eitr and run coax into a DAC.



Question though, is it normal that out of my Fulla 2 SE out to all my iems and cans I don’t have any of the USB noise I’m experiencing through my jot?


----------



## cskippy

Gain and power ouput is SOOOO much higher on the Jot it's probably just making the noise more obvious.


----------



## alpovs

Dabbaranks said:


> Question though, is it normal that out of my Fulla 2 SE out to all my iems and cans I don’t have any of the USB noise I’m experiencing through my jot?


The more you describe it the more it sounds like ground loop. You should hear the same noise at the same perceptual volume level if it was coming from USB.

You can try plugging everything in the chain (the Jot, computer, etc.) into the same cheap, without any surge protection circuitry power bar. See if this reduces the noise.


----------



## Dabbaranks

alpovs said:


> The more you describe it the more it sounds like ground loop. You should hear the same noise at the same perceptual volume level if it was coming from USB.
> 
> You can try plugging everything in the chain (the Jot, computer, etc.) into the same cheap, without any surge protection circuitry power bar. See if this reduces the noise.



Reporting back, tried everything plugged into a cheap power bar, straight from the wall. Tried everything plugged into the wall too. Tried everything plugged into the battery power surge bar as well. Noise hasn't actually changed much at all from all from my initial testing actually, I went back to the battery powered surge protector bar since if it doesn't make a difference I'll keep using it at a safety feature. 

Thanks again for the help, really appreciate it.


----------



## showme99 (Feb 9, 2018)

@Dabbaranks, I think this issue may just be inherent to this particular style of cable. Every time I've used a 3.5mm-to-RCA cable, I've experienced some level of static noise in my headphones or speakers. Sometimes it's barely noticeable, but other times it can be quite obvious. It's usually the worst during quiet passages in the music or when I pause playback.

I've found that lowering the volume of the input device sometimes makes the noise go away. In your case, try lowering the volume of the Fulla to about 50%, then use the Jotunheim's volume knob to control the playback volume.

If that doesn't work, you may need to completely remove the 3.5mm-to-RCA cable from your setup. Replace the Fulla with a standalone DAC such as the Schiit Modi, then run regular RCA cables from it to the Jotunheim. Regular RCA cables seem to be much less susceptible to noise than the 3.5mm-to-RCA adapter cables.


----------



## Dabbaranks (Feb 9, 2018)

showme99 said:


> If that doesn't work, you may need to completely remove the 3.5mm-to-RCA cable from your setup. Replace the Fulla with a standalone DAC such as the Schiit Modi, then run regular RCA cables from it to the Jotunheim. Regular RCA cables seem to be much less susceptible to noise than the 3.5mm-to-RCA adapter cables.



My Fulla is acting as a preamp to my monitors so yeah I guess I’m getting whatever the Fulla is designed to put out from that part of the chain.

Thank you for your help and insight on the 3.5mm to rca cables, I wouldn’t doubt that’s a weak link as well. I think optical through a Mimby is in my future. But since I’m a Mac user I’m kind of worried about not having spdif or optical out in the newer machines when it’s time for me to upgrade.


EDIT: I realize I have an old behringer uca202 lying around so I guess I can toslink optical out to the mimby in the future. I tried just regular stereo rca cables from the uca202 to the jot and I got the same noise and at max volume (balanced) I can hear the same distinctive coil whine which should be coming from my computer.


----------



## torifile

I’m sure this has been answered in this thread that’s hundreds of pages long but since I can’t find it - would a balanced cable with my Aeon Flow Closed be in any way beneficial if my DAC isn’t balanaced?


----------



## senorx12562

torifile said:


> I’m sure this has been answered in this thread that’s hundreds of pages long but since I can’t find it - would a balanced cable with my Aeon Flow Closed be in any way beneficial if my DAC isn’t balanaced?



Way more power, if that would be of any benefit to you. Whether there are sq benefits independent of the additional power is a matter of some dispute. I don't hear anything, but I'm sure somebody will say it is "night and day."


----------



## torifile

senorx12562 said:


> Way more power, if that would be of any benefit to you. Whether there are sq benefits independent of the additional power is a matter of some dispute. I don't hear anything, but I'm sure somebody will say it is "night and day."


Thanks. Considering I can barely turn the Jot past 11 as it is, I’ll just stay with the SE cable.


----------



## sup27606 (Feb 26, 2018)

torifile said:


> I’m sure this has been answered in this thread that’s hundreds of pages long but since I can’t find it - would a balanced cable with my Aeon Flow Closed be in any way beneficial if my DAC isn’t balanaced?



The SQ difference between SE vs balanced depends on the headphone I believe. Some headphones show marked difference in SQ when volume matched between SE and balanced, while others sounded similar to me. For example, Sennheiser 6XX, Audeze Sine and EL-8 all showed noticeable improvement in soundstage and imaging using balanced cable over single ended, and for them it was a no-brainer to go balanced. In contrast, Sennheiser 598 (it was a different headphone whose model I don't recall, possibly a friend's Sennheiser) did not show any noticeable difference in sound quality. Before I bought the Jot, I read some comments in these forums, where it was suggested that there is no difference in sound between the SE and balanced ports, and I believed that. Later on, I experimented with the balanced output and found that to be not true. Oh, one more thing, the SQ difference can be felt even with a single ended DAC, in my case the Mimby.


----------



## DavidA

sup27606 said:


> The SQ difference between SE vs balanced depends on the headphone I believe. Some headphones show marked difference in SQ when volume matched between SE and balanced, while others sounded similar to me. For example, Sennheiser 6XX, Audeze Sine and EL-8 all showed noticeable improvement in soundstage and imaging using balanced cable over single ended, and for them it was a no-brainer to go balanced. In contrast, Sennheiser 598 (it was a different headphone whose model I don't recall, possibly a friend's Sennheiser) did not show any noticeable difference in sound quality. Before I bought the Jot, I read some comments in these forums, where it was suggested that there is no difference in sound between the SE and balanced ports, and I believed that. Later on, I experimented with the balanced output and found that to be not true. Oh, one more thing, the SQ difference can be felt even with a single ended DAC, in my case the Mimby.



Its not usually the headphone that running balanced or SE with make a difference in SQ, its usually the design of the amp that will determine if there is a difference between the balanced or SE output since some amps are designed to be used primarily with the balanced output and only have the SE output for convenience while some amps are designed to output the same quality to either the balanced or SE output.  For the time I spent with my friends Jot I agree that some headphones (HD800, HD700, HE560, T1gen1, HD650, SRH1840 and LCD2) did sound different (not always better) using the balanced output while other amps like the Liquid Glass, Liquid Carbon, Hugo, Dark Star, MHA-100, and V281 didn't have any sonic differences to me using either output.  With the Liquid Glass and Dard Star I used both balanced and SE DACs (bal: UD-301, MHDT Pagoda, SE: Bimby and Metrum Musette).



torifile said:


> I’m sure this has been answered in this thread that’s hundreds of pages long but since I can’t find it - would a balanced cable with my Aeon Flow Closed be in any way beneficial if my DAC isn’t balanaced?


I'd say it probably would since I felt that the balanced output of the Jot did make the HD650 and LCD-2 sound a little more alive due to a better sound stage and less roll off in the treble but this worked against the Jot with the HD800, HD700, HE560 and T1gen1 for me since the balanced output made these headphones sound even brighter to me.


----------



## sup27606

DavidA said:


> Its not usually the headphone that running balanced or SE with make a difference in SQ, its usually the design of the amp that will determine if there is a difference between the balanced or SE output since some amps are designed to be used primarily with the balanced output and only have the SE output for convenience while some amps are designed to output the same quality to either the balanced or SE output.  For the time I spent with my friends Jot I agree that some headphones (HD800, HD700, HE560, T1gen1, HD650, SRH1840 and LCD2) did sound different (not always better) using the balanced output while other amps like the Liquid Glass, Liquid Carbon, Hugo, Dark Star, MHA-100, and V281 didn't have any sonic differences to me using either output.  With the Liquid Glass and Dard Star I used both balanced and SE DACs (bal: UD-301, MHDT Pagoda, SE: Bimby and Metrum Musette).
> 
> 
> I'd say it probably would since I felt that the balanced output of the Jot did make the HD650 and LCD-2 sound a little more alive due to a better sound stage and less roll off in the treble but this worked against the Jot with the HD800, HD700, HE560 and T1gen1 for me since the balanced output made these headphones sound even brighter to me.



Thank you for the detailed analysis. My experiences are similar to yours. Just to clarify, I am aware that amp design has a big role to play in how the SQ will differ between SE vs balanced. I meant the above statement in relation to Jot only and not as a general statement for all amps, although now that I read it, it doesn't come as clear as I intended.


----------



## torifile

DavidA said:


> Its not usually the headphone that running balanced or SE with make a difference in SQ, its usually the design of the amp that will determine if there is a difference between the balanced or SE output since some amps are designed to be used primarily with the balanced output and only have the SE output for convenience while some amps are designed to output the same quality to either the balanced or SE output.  For the time I spent with my friends Jot I agree that some headphones (HD800, HD700, HE560, T1gen1, HD650, SRH1840 and LCD2) did sound different (not always better) using the balanced output while other amps like the Liquid Glass, Liquid Carbon, Hugo, Dark Star, MHA-100, and V281 didn't have any sonic differences to me using either output.  With the Liquid Glass and Dard Star I used both balanced and SE DACs (bal: UD-301, MHDT Pagoda, SE: Bimby and Metrum Musette).
> 
> 
> I'd say it probably would since I felt that the balanced output of the Jot did make the HD650 and LCD-2 sound a little more alive due to a better sound stage and less roll off in the treble but this worked against the Jot with the HD800, HD700, HE560 and T1gen1 for me since the balanced output made these headphones sound even brighter to me.





sup27606 said:


> Thank you for the detailed analysis. My experiences are similar to yours. Just to clarify, I am aware that amp design has a big role to play in how the SQ will differ between SE vs balanced. I meant the above statement in relation to Jot only and not as a general statement for all amps, although now that I read it, it doesn't come as clear as I intended.



See. Here I was thinking I’d get a clear “no need to spend more cash” reply and then this happens... LOL. I guess I need to source a balanced cable for the Aeon Flow Closed and give it a try for myself. This habit is freaking expensive!


----------



## Zackobrien

I have this  in the black too!!


----------



## Paul Graham (Mar 4, 2018)

Letmebefrank said:


> I have made my own 4pin xlr female to trs male adapter for my headphones, as I converted my 650 cable to balanced 4 pin. Using this method takes about 2 seconds to switch from balanced to SE and the differences are very obvious with this fast of a switch.


Would you believe I can't find a single "How-To" online for a 4 Pin to TRS! Loads of 3 pin but zero 4 pin. How do you wire this please? I'm making one for my cables. I have the connectors and cable, I just need to know which wire goes where. Any help would be greatly appreciated thank you


----------



## jimmers (Mar 4, 2018)

Paul Graham said:


> Would you believe I can't find a single "How-To" online for a 4 Pin to TRS! Loads of 3 pin but zero 4 pin. How do you wire this please? I'm making one for my cables. I have the connectors and cable, I just need to know which wire goes where. Any help would be greatly appreciated thank you



Should be enough info here


----------



## Letmebefrank

Paul Graham said:


> Would you believe I can't find a single "How-To" online for a 4 Pin to TRS! Loads of 3 pin but zero 4 pin. How do you wire this please? I'm making one for my cables. I have the connectors and cable, I just need to know which wire goes where. Any help would be greatly appreciated thank you





jimmers said:


> Should be enough info here



Yep then on the TRS just connect the two grounds together on the sleeve, the right + to ring and left + to tip.


----------



## jimmers (Mar 4, 2018)

Paul Graham said:


> Would you believe I can't find a single "How-To" online for a 4 Pin to TRS! Loads of 3 pin but zero 4 pin. How do you wire this please? I'm making one for my cables. I have the connectors and cable, I just need to know which wire goes where. Any help would be greatly appreciated thank you


OR ..; 

if you would like more of a hand-hold

https://robrobinette.com/BalancedCable.htm#Sennheiser_HD


----------



## RiflemanFirst

Has anyone tried the HD660S on the Jotunheim yet? So far I find the Mimby & Magni 3 to be great with them but I'm recently getting urge to go balanced.


----------



## Mirakoolz

Help

anyone know if the XLR headphone Out Socket is "Jack-sensing" whereby it'll mute the XLR Preouts if connected
if so, does there exist a 6.5mm to XLR adapter? all my headphones are single-ended


----------



## dr cornelius

Mirakoolz said:


> Help
> 
> anyone know if the XLR headphone Out Socket is "Jack-sensing" whereby it'll mute the XLR Preouts if connected
> if so, does there exist a 6.5mm to XLR adapter? all my headphones are single-ended



Plugging in headphones does not mute the pre-outs.  If all of your cans are SE, then you might want to try a different amp...


----------



## Collusion[FIN] (Mar 10, 2018)

Got my Jotunheim on thursday and I've been burning it in ever since by playing music continuously.

I did my first serious listenings today with three headphones:

AKG K812
AKG K702
Audeze LCD-2

K812's were an excellent match I think. K712's are okay. Audezes don't really sound that good with the Jotunheim...


----------



## DavidA

Collusion[FIN] said:


> Got my Jotunheim on thursday and I've been burning it in ever since by playing music continuously.
> 
> I did my first serious listenings today with three headphones:
> 
> ...


What is your basis for comparison such as previous amps used, genre of music, level that you listen at? 

FYI: Might want to fill in your profile so it would give others a starting point to understanding your comments and have a basis of comparison .


----------



## Raphael DeLaGhetto

Collusion[FIN] said:


> Got my Jotunheim on thursday and I've been burning it in ever since by playing music continuously.
> 
> I did my first serious listenings today with three headphones:
> 
> ...


Oh no. Those last 2 sentences worry me. May have to take this off the list of potential upgrades


----------



## Collusion[FIN] (Mar 15, 2018)

Raphael DeLaGhetto said:


> Oh no. Those last 2 sentences worry me. May have to take this off the list of potential upgrades



This was my first prolonged listening with the Audezes: it might just be I don't like how they sound - the pairing itself may be OK. Test yourself, if you a change to do so.

 MSB Signature DAC IV Plus was used as a dac ( with volume control bypassed ). It was connected with balanced XLR cables ( HGA Silver lace & some cheaper Cordial microphone cables too )

I did listen to various kinds of music, but mostly Natalie Merchant and Oscar Peterson.

Its difficult for me to compare the Jotunheim to other amps, since I've previously owned only combo units ( like Soekris dac1541, Marantz HD-DAC1, Chord Hugo&Mojo ... )


----------



## Zree

I was curious about this recent thread, because I actually had the opposite experience. (Not exactly same, but similar components). I have a Modi2-multi DAC, running into a Darkvoice 336, and into Jot. For HD600’s, there seems to be warmer and deeper sound from DV, and Jot, is more clinical and cold, with almost a hollow sound. For my EL-8C’s I love the pairing with the Jot. Tried DV with EL-8, and that really did not work. For my set up and ears, the Jot & EL-8C, has a full sound, good stage, and is reasonably balanced. I have not tried a ton of amps, but combo compares pretty well with my Stax SR-L500s which to me sound great.


----------



## DavidA

Zree said:


> I was curious about this recent thread, because I actually had the opposite experience. (Not exactly same, but similar components). I have a Modi2-multi DAC, running into a Darkvoice 336, and into Jot. For HD600’s, there seems to be warmer and deeper sound from DV, and Jot, is more clinical and cold, with almost a hollow sound. For my EL-8C’s I love the pairing with the Jot. Tried DV with EL-8, and that really did not work. For my set up and ears, the Jot & EL-8C, has a full sound, good stage, and is reasonably balanced. I have not tried a ton of amps, but combo compares pretty well with my Stax SR-L500s which to me sound great.


What you are finding is what many will notice after time that there are some types of amps that are better paired with certain types of headphones.  The 336 is a OTL amp and is better suited for higher impedance headphones while the Jot is a low impedance amp better suited for low impedance headphones but there is some over lap and it also depends on the design of the amp.  I've found that the Jot is actually pretty good with the HD650 since the HD650 is a bit on the warmer side and the Jot being slightly on the brighter side they made a decent pairing but I'd still rather use a OTL amp (BH Crack) with the HD650 since there is better synergy between the headphone and amp IMO.


----------



## MWSVette

In this hobby synergy is everything...


----------



## Sound Eq

can i ask who is the schiit audio contact person here on head fi


----------



## MWSVette (Mar 18, 2018)

Sound Eq said:


> can i ask who is the schiit audio contact person here on head fi



They have 2 threads;

@Jason Stoddard, on https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...worlds-most-improbable-start-up.701900/unread

and

@Baldr, on https://www.head-fi.org/threads/what-a-long-strange-trip-its-been-robert-hunter.784471/unread

But the best way to contact them is through the Schiit website contact page using, info@schiit.com


----------



## rkw

Sound Eq said:


> can i ask who is the schiit audio contact person here on head fi


I wouldn't say that there is a Schiit "contact person" (such as for business or customer issues) on this forum. The founders of Schiit are Jason Stoddard (@Jason Stoddard) and Mike Moffat (@Baldr), and they post occasionally on Head-Fi. If you need to contact Schiit Audio for some reason, they have recommended using email: info@schiit.com


----------



## MrPretty

Anyone notice that they now have a Multibit DAC option for the Jotunheim listed?  Is this new or did I miss something?


----------



## rkw

MrPretty said:


> Anyone notice that they now have a Multibit DAC option for the Jotunheim listed?  Is this new or did I miss something?


Just announced today: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...bable-start-up.701900/page-2026#post-14116733


----------



## Raphael DeLaGhetto

Joined the drop for the MCTH yesterday but now I want to try out the new Jomby since the dac was seemingly the biggest hinderance for most people. If the black is still available come thursday I'll buy it & compare the two. Won't exactly be apples to apples since one is hybrid & one isn't, but I'll see how they synergize with the cans I have & my potential upgrades (Auteur or Clear for end game).


----------



## Iron-Buddha

Got the e-mail about the upgrade to my Jot order.  Got the Jomby incoming!  Was originally on the fence between the Mimby or waiting for the Bifrost update.....but this is a no brainer.  The next Bifrost update will have to be quite compelling to upgrade (USB5 + Balanced?).


----------



## kundica (Mar 20, 2018)

Raphael DeLaGhetto said:


> Joined the drop for the MCTH yesterday but now I want to try out the new Jomby since the dac was seemingly the biggest hinderance for most people. If the black is still available come thursday I'll buy it & compare the two. Won't exactly be apples to apples since one is hybrid & one isn't, but I'll see how they synergize with the cans I have & my potential upgrades (Auteur or Clear for end game).


I ordered the MCTH yesterday as well but I also have a Jot with built-in DAC and a Mimby. The Mimby is currently feeding our home stereo system since I have the RME ADI-2 DAC arriving tomorrow for my workstation. I didn't think these purchases through all that clearly. I wanted something to replace the Mimby/Jot setup on my desk since I needed the Mimby for the stereo. In the meantime I decided I wanted a tube amp and the MCTH seemed like a great option. Now there's the Lyr 3 and the Multibit DAC module.



Iron-Buddha said:


> Got the e-mail about the upgrade to my Jot order.  Got the Jomby incoming!  Was originally on the fence between the Mimby or waiting for the Bifrost update.....but this is a no brainer.  The next Bifrost update will have to be quite compelling to upgrade (USB5 + Balanced?).


I think the Jot/Mimby is a big win so I suspect you'll be quite pleased.


----------



## KaiFi

Man, how many -mbys do they need? The fact that they now have a multibit option for the Jot and the new Lyr is now a DAC/amp makes me wonder if Schiit is seeing the light about DAC/amps  Maybe there will be more to come.


----------



## sup27606

It would have been great if one could exchange the balanced DAC module for the multibit module for a discount from Schiit. I have the Mimby and its so much better in soundstage and imaging than the built in DAC, that I hardly use the latter.


----------



## lenroot77 (Mar 20, 2018)

.


----------



## Wallboy

If you care about Multibit, I still think Mimby/Jot vs Jomby is better for $50 more for the extra inputs. Too bad they couldn't get the extra toslink/coaxial inputs onto the card. Guessing not enough room.


----------



## EtRec

Hi, Thinking of ordering the multibit card , anyone have experience self installing any of the other cards. I have some soldering experience on my phones usb plug breaking and understand the importance of keeping static free area when working with electronics. Just don't want to ship my Jot back and forth from NYC to California. Does it even require lead soldering? Thanks


----------



## leafy7382

I installed my own Gen5 USB for Yaggdrasil, piece of cake if you are used to putting  computers together or installing PCI/e cards or USB headers on the MB. Yeah, just take care of the static and everything else should be fine.


----------



## Phasor

EtRec said:


> Hi, Thinking of ordering the multibit card , anyone have experience self installing any of the other cards. I have some soldering experience on my phones usb plug breaking and understand the importance of keeping static free area when working with electronics. Just don't want to ship my Jot back and forth from NYC to California. Does it even require lead soldering? Thanks



Remove the volume knob and the nut and washer behind it. Then remove all the screws in the back. Slide the top cover forward to unlock and you will see where to install the dac.


----------



## Iron-Buddha

Wallboy said:


> If you care about Multibit, I still think Mimby/Jot vs Jomby is better for $50 more for the extra inputs. Too bad they couldn't get the extra toslink/coaxial inputs onto the card. Guessing not enough room.



If you really care, I think the Gumby is the starting point no?


----------



## EtRec

I'm sure every Jot owner is waiting to hear impressions of the new Multibit card. I'm especially interested in hearing impressions of the new 4490 card which is now standard with new Jot's.  Gone is the passive mode that some complained about. I have the old dac card and always thought it was underrated. Tried the Bitfrost Multibit , was it better, maybe, but not $600 better (sent it back).   From Jason Stoppard of Schiit, about the new 4490 card.......

" We went from the original’s passive summing to active summing using the OPA1662, and went from the original’s single-pole passive filter to an active two-pole filter.

Now, some people may think this is a less “pure” approach, but the proof of the pudding is in the eating, or, in this case, hearing. And the new 4490 card sounds significantly better. It’s now standard in both Jotunheim and Lyr 3."


----------



## EtRec

leafy7382 said:


> I installed my own Gen5 USB for Yaggdrasil, piece of cake if you are used to putting  computers together or installing PCI/e cards or USB headers on the MB. Yeah, just take care of the static and everything else should be fine.





Phasor said:


> Remove the volume knob and the nut and washer behind it. Then remove all the screws in the back. Slide the top cover forward to unlock and you will see where to install the dac.


Do you know if any soldering is involved? Thanks


----------



## Tuneslover

...or just buy the Modi MB.


----------



## StageOne

EtRec said:


> Do you know if any soldering is involved? Thanks



No Soldering involved.


----------



## Bazirker

What's the benefit of going to multibit?


----------



## Phasor

EtRec said:


> Do you know if any soldering is involved? Thanks



Just a screw driver and something to remove the nut behind the volume knob.


----------



## DocBass

Bazirker said:


> What's the benefit of going to multibit?


Many (most?) people prefer the sound of multibit over a sigma-delta DAC. The music sounds more lifelike, without the sharp treble (although this is much better with more recent DS chips).


----------



## sup27606

Has anyone compared the Jot to the THX AAA 789 Linear Amp thats on sale at Massdrop currently? Just curious. Both seem to be in the same price range and are of similar wattage.


----------



## Alcophone

sup27606 said:


> Has anyone compared the Jot to the THX AAA 789 Linear Amp thats on sale at Massdrop currently? Just curious. Both seem to be in the same price range and are of similar wattage.


There's a link to another forum in the comments on Massdrop with a comparison between the two on page 3 (of the forum). Can't be more specific without this comment getting deleted cause rules.


----------



## alpovs

sup27606 said:


> Has anyone compared the Jot to the THX AAA 789 Linear Amp thats on sale at Massdrop currently? Just curious. Both seem to be in the same price range and are of similar wattage.


Estimated ship date is *Oct 31, 2018 PT*.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/massdrop-x-thx-aaa™-789-linear-amplifier-impressions-thread.873576/


----------



## sup27606

Alcophone said:


> There's a link to another forum in the comments on Massdrop with a comparison between the two on page 3 (of the forum). Can't be more specific without this comment getting deleted cause rules.





alpovs said:


> Estimated ship date is *Oct 31, 2018 PT*.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/massdrop-x-thx-aaa™-789-linear-amplifier-impressions-thread.873576/



Thanks. Let me take a look.


----------



## RiflemanFirst

I'm considering buying a multibit Jotunheim and was looking for some input before pulling the trigger. It appears that the multibit DAC module for the Jotunheim is not balanced and is not USB Gen 5 (basically a Mimby stripped of optical & digital coax input). Since I already have the Eitr and Mimby I am assuming I would probably be better off buying the Jot with no module then hooking them up instead of buying the multibit option. Seems like it would techhnically be a "downgrade" to get rid of my current stack (with the Eitr) completely for the multibit Jot. Anyone else care to comment?


----------



## Alcophone

RiflemanFirst said:


> I'm considering buying a multibit Jotunheim and was looking for some input before pulling the trigger. It appears that the multibit DAC module for the Jotunheim is not balanced and is not USB Gen 5 (basically a Mimby stripped of optical & digital coax input). Since I already have the Eitr and Mimby I am assuming I would probably be better off buying the Jot with no module then hooking them up instead of buying the multibit option. Seems like it would techhnically be a "downgrade" to get rid of my current stack (with the Eitr) completely for the multibit Jot. Anyone else care to comment?


I would agree with that. One caveat, the Multibit module is single ended internally, but converts that output to balanced before passing it on to Jotunheim. Mimby does not. However, as far as I know the Jotunheim basically does the same thing with its single ended input, so it's probably a wash. Your current solution has better USB and two additional inputs, so it's more flexible.

A more interesting upgrade would be Gumby, that's obviously much pricier.


----------



## indrakula

Can we install Jot multi bit DAC module? Or need to send back to schiit? When we choose “Installed by schiit”. If it is easy to replace than i might give it try since there is a huge waiting list if i send it back.


----------



## alpovs

Alcophone said:


> I would agree with that. One caveat, the Multibit module is single ended internally, but converts that output to balanced before passing it on to Jotunheim. Mimby does not. However, as far as I know the Jotunheim basically does the same thing with its single ended input, so it's probably a wash. Your current solution has better USB and two additional inputs, so it's more flexible.
> 
> A more interesting upgrade would be Gumby, that's obviously much pricier.


I concur.


----------



## alpovs

indrakula said:


> Can we install Jot multi bit DAC module? Or need to send back to schiit? When we choose “Installed by schiit”. If it is easy to replace than i might give it try since there is a huge waiting list if i send it back.


There is an option "No installation" $50 cheaper. They will send you the module and you can do what you want with it, i.e., install.


----------



## indrakula

alpovs said:


> There is an option "No installation" $50 cheaper. They will send you the module and you can do what you want with it, i.e., install.


Thanks, but if it is unplug and plug scenario i can do it. But if it is a shouldering i cant. Does anyone know exactly?


----------



## alpovs

indrakula said:


> Thanks, but if it is unplug and plug scenario i can do it. But if it is a shouldering i cant. Does anyone know exactly?


They don't sell anything that requires soldering.


----------



## indrakula

alpovs said:


> They don't sell anything that requires soldering.


Perfect, thanks


----------



## GrussGott (Mar 23, 2018)

RiflemanFirst said:


> I'm considering buying a multibit Jotunheim and was looking for some input before pulling the trigger. It appears that the multibit DAC module for the Jotunheim is not balanced and is not USB Gen 5 (basically a Mimby stripped of optical & digital coax input). Since I already have the Eitr and Mimby I am assuming I would probably be better off buying the Jot with no module then hooking them up instead of buying the multibit option. Seems like it would techhnically be a "downgrade" to get rid of my current stack (with the Eitr) completely for the multibit Jot. Anyone else care to comment?



I have the eitr>mimby>jot and FWIW i think balanced is really over-rated, especially on mid-fi gear like the Jot.  I run HD600/50 with a XLR cable but also run SE th-x00s ... I've considered modding the cable for XLR, and have all of the parts, but it sounds pretty damn good as is.

If you're talking about a super-resolving yggy wa22 utopia setup, then sure, but *on mid-hi stuff balanced might be a slight improvement *on some recordings that's not worth much trouble/$$.  Meaning you'd have to critically listen to spot it and the odds you could consistently spot it are probably very low ... thus *your money is WAY better spent on a better SE amp*, or even better, headphones.

Further, I'd buy the Lyr 3 if I was buying today.  Jot is great, but the Lyr looks like a small step up on paper, especially if you don't need the modules.  Lyr 3 w/ TS tube (which you can buy from amazon for the same total cost and have 2 tubes to roll)


----------



## RiflemanFirst

GrussGott said:


> I have the eitr>mimby>jot and FWIW i think balanced is really over-rated, especially on mid-fi gear like the Jot.
> ...
> Further, I'd buy the Lyr 3 if I was buying today.  Jot is great, but the Lyr looks like a small step up on paper, especially if you don't need the modules.  Lyr 3 w/ TS tube (which you can buy from amazon for the same total cost and have 2 tubes to roll)



Yeah, the Lyr 3 looks pretty enticing too. I tend to prefer solid state amps, but could always buy it with the LISST and tube option to play around with/compare. I had the Vali 2 for a while, but sold it after getting the Magni 3.


----------



## Alcophone

RiflemanFirst said:


> Yeah, the Lyr 3 looks pretty enticing too. I tend to prefer solid state amps, but could always buy it with the LISST and tube option to play around with/compare. I had the Vali 2 for a while, but sold it after getting the Magni 3.


Lyr 2 with LISST was no match for the Jotunheim, all the transients sounded rolled off to me. Lyr 3 might of course be a different story.


----------



## Tuneslover (Mar 22, 2018)

indrakula said:


> Thanks, but if it is unplug and plug scenario i can do it. But if it is a shouldering i cant. Does anyone know exactly?



Not sure about this module but to upgrade the Bifrost it has to be sent back to Schiit because the upgrade involves programming.


----------



## indrakula

Tuneslover said:


> Not sure about this module but to upgrade the Bifrost it has to be sent back to Schiit because the upgrade involves programming.


Hmmmmm, i have already ordered multibit DAC for self install. Looks like nobody has done DAC installation for jot as there is no definite answer or there is no clear instructions. If programming is required, than i guess i will need to send back my unit anyway..and pay extra...


----------



## Alcophone

indrakula said:


> Hmmmmm, i have already ordered multibit DAC for self install. Looks like nobody has done DAC installation for jot as there is no definite answer or there is no clear instructions. If programming is required, than i guess i will need to send back my unit anyway..and pay extra...


The multibit upgrades aren't sold for self-install, because you can't do the programming yourself, only Schiit can. So it's safe to assume that no programming is required for the Jotunheim DAC module. It has an analog interface to the Jotunheim, so all required programming will have been done on the module itself by Schiit beforehand.


----------



## jimmers (Mar 22, 2018)

indrakula said:


> Hmmmmm, i have already ordered multibit DAC for self install. Looks like nobody has done DAC installation for jot as there is no definite answer or there is no clear instructions. If programming is required, than i guess i will need to send back my unit anyway..and pay extra...


The Bifrost most likely needs motherboard firmware update as the inputs and DAC/analog are on separate boards, the Jot/Lyr multibit has input and DAC/analog all on the one unit designed to work together so no need for firmware reprogramming (no Jot motherboard digital  handling firmware to upgrade anyhoo)


----------



## Tuneslover

Probably a good idea if Schiit would comment on the specifics involved to self upgrade the multibit module on the Jotunheim and Lyr 3.


----------



## Phasor

Well, I'll know shortly. My MB module for the Jot shipped today. Should have it in a few days.


----------



## Tuneslover

Phasor said:


> Well, I'll know shortly. My MB module for the Jot shipped today. Should have it in a few days.



Please inform us what's involved in the self install.  I did a self install on my Bifrost from Uber to 4490.  The actual card replacement was a breeze, removed 1 or 2 screws, pulled out the Uber board, slipped in the 4490 board and replaced the screws.  Easy Peasy.  Getting into the unit wasn't too difficult, nor was the reassembly but lining up the LED's was a bit tricky.


----------



## O.C. Audiophile

Phasor said:


> Well, I'll know shortly. My MB module for the Jot shipped today. Should have it in a few days.


I just ordered mine.  Looks to be a simple procedure.  It is important to observe static discharge protection methods (ground yourself).


----------



## EtRec

No one seems to be interested in the new 4490 card. According to Jason the new 4490 card is significantly better.  

" We went from the original’s passive summing to active summing using the OPA1662, and went from the original’s single-pole passive filter to an active two-pole filter.

Now, some people may think this is a less “pure” approach, but the proof of the pudding is in the eating, or, in this case, hearing. And the new 4490 card sounds significantly better. It’s now standard in both Jotunheim and Lyr 3."


----------



## indrakula

Tuneslover said:


> Probably a good idea if Schiit would comment on the specifics involved to self upgrade the multibit module on the Jotunheim and Lyr 3.


Nope they wont, i already emailed ‘em and they replied as below:
***********************
Thank you for your interest.  We do offer a “no-installation” upgrade option for the Jotunheim Multibit.  Please understand if you select this option you are agreeing to: 


_"Yes, I am, or know, a competent electronics technician who does not need hand-holding for this installation, and I will not allow an inexperienced person to perform the upgrade, since I understand there are no user-serviceable parts inside."  _

_We do not provide instructions on how to perform the upgrade.
************************_


----------



## MWSVette

This is from the Schiit site;

*Other Installation Options*
If you’re an experienced electronics technician or engineer who is familiar with ESD precautions, or work with a good tech, you can choose to have the Multibit DAC card sent to you directly, fully tested and protected in an antistatic bag. 

_Please note that by selecting this option, you are saying, "Yes, I am, or know, a competent electronics technician who does not need hand-holding for this installation, and I will not allow an inexperienced person to perform the upgrade, since I understand there are no user-serviceable parts inside."_


----------



## Tuneslover

EtRec said:


> No one seems to be interested in the new 4490 card. According to Jason the new 4490 card is significantly better.
> 
> " We went from the original’s passive summing to active summing using the OPA1662, and went from the original’s single-pole passive filter to an active two-pole filter.
> 
> Now, some people may think this is a less “pure” approach, but the proof of the pudding is in the eating, or, in this case, hearing. And the new 4490 card sounds significantly better. It’s now standard in both Jotunheim and Lyr 3."



I wonder how this 4490 board compares to the one I self installed into my Bifrost a couple of years ago?


----------



## alphanumerix1

Lyr3 looks enticing. Balanced doesn't seem worth the effort in the mid fi space.


----------



## indrakula

I need to use my 230V Jot in US for few days, pls suggest a good Step up transformer.


----------



## MtnMan307

I wonder how the Multibit card compares to the Modi Multibit?  I have the Modi Multibit with the Jot and really enjoy this combo.  The new Lyr 3 would look amazing on top of Jot though, just an orgy of Schiit lol.


----------



## bildar

I rec'd my Jotenheim with multibit card yesterday. I am really enjoying it. I have older LCD 3 with fazor upgrade headphones connected to single ended C3 cable.


----------



## Tuneslover

MtnMan307 said:


> I wonder how the Multibit card compares to the Modi Multibit?  I have the Modi Multibit with the Jot and really enjoy this combo.  The new Lyr 3 would look amazing on top of Jot though, just an orgy of Schiit lol.



I would have to assume identical but who knows, that would be an interesting comparison though.


----------



## Tuneslover (Mar 24, 2018)

Am I mistaken or are the DAC modules (DS or MB) for the Jotunheim applied strictly to the USB input?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think I just discovered the answer to my question in Schiit's announcement on their web page:

"It’s essentially a Modi Multibit with a single input—USB".  So I suppose if you only use USB then it's a practical one box solution (and balanced to boot).  However if you require other inputs then the Modi MB is the way to go (SE only).


----------



## TheViolentVicar

I'm installing the multibit module myself.  Want a how-to guide with pics?


----------



## Tohex

Fellas,

I'm really close to pulling the trigger on a Jotunheim for a new setup, beyond the all in one and seemingly great value offering ... they also still have black in stock BUT I need a few other comments to help me round out what I'm thinking.

I have the itch to try the Multibit DAC but somewhere on these forums I've read once or twice that because it isn't the Gen 5 USB board that it's not going to do the whole Multibit system justice. I'm thinking that it might be best to stick with the improved D/S 4490 and ride the balanced train at a good price? Perhaps if the Asgard 3 in the future (speculated model) offered an all-in-one SE approach alone with a full integrated Modi Multibit setup AND I didn't think the balanced offered much else then I'd sell this and head that route. I am also thinking about running speakers in the future, though nothing too fancy (thinking Yamaha HS7).

There's a voice inside me telling me to go with the Multibit and I'm keen to hear one but with a balanced amp such as the Jot surely you kind of have to go the 4490 D/S? Especially given that they've just refreshed the option.

Any feedback on my thoughts would be appreciated. Point out things if I have them wrong, still learning.


----------



## DavidA

Tohex said:


> Fellas,
> 
> I'm really close to pulling the trigger on a Jotunheim for a new setup, beyond the all in one and seemingly great value offering ... they also still have black in stock BUT I need a few other comments to help me round out what I'm thinking.
> 
> ...


The first thing I'd ask you are what headphones you are going to be using (other than what is in your signature) and if there are any planned headphones in your future since I've found that the Jot while great for some headphones was not a good match for others.


----------



## Tohex

DavidA said:


> The first thing I'd ask you are what headphones you are going to be using (other than what is in your signature) and if there are any planned headphones in your future since I've found that the Jot while great for some headphones was not a good match for others.



I'm currently eyeing off some HD800S. I've got the opportunity to buy some used at a relatively attractive price and wanted something to do them justice without breaking the bank any more for now.


----------



## DavidA

Tohex said:


> I'm currently eyeing off some HD800S. I've got the opportunity to buy some used at a relatively attractive price and wanted something to do them justice without breaking the bank any more for now.


While I haven't personally tried the HD800S on a Jot it would not be an amp I would suggest for them.  One of the better amps that I've heard a friend's HD800S on was the Elise (with updated tubes), Teac HA501, G-109, and Heron 5.  These are all a little more pricy than the Jot but I think they make a better pairing with the HD800S since I didn't like them on my Asgard2 or Lyr2 and the Jot seemed to pair better with planar and slightly warmer dynamic headphones like the HD650 to me and even the owner of the HD800S.  But since we all hear differently you might like the pairing of the HD800S and Jot.


----------



## deFiniLoGy

If you already love the sound sig of HD800S, Jotty is a great amp for it.

My current setup is a Etir -> Mimby -> Jotty -> HD800S balanced, and the entire setup is essentially to strengthen what's great about the HD800S.


----------



## Tohex (Mar 27, 2018)

DavidA said:


> While I haven't personally tried the HD800S on a Jot it would not be an amp I would suggest for them.  One of the better amps that I've heard a friend's HD800S on was the Elise (with updated tubes), Teac HA501, G-109, and Heron 5.  These are all a little more pricy than the Jot but I think they make a better pairing with the HD800S since I didn't like them on my Asgard2 or Lyr2 and the Jot seemed to pair better with planar and slightly warmer dynamic headphones like the HD650 to me and even the owner of the HD800S.  But since we all hear differently you might like the pairing of the HD800S and Jot.



Man, thanks so much for taking the time to post. I will do some research on the different ones you mentioned and see what prices and returns are like. The fact that you didn't find he Asgard 2 a very good pairing could be telling. I always thought he Asgard 2 was meant to be warmer.

Living in Australia it's a little tricky to have access to everything but I might get lucky! I'm also tempted by the 6XX, never listen to any of the top tier stuff and just settle with that.

Exciting times ahead.


----------



## Tohex

deFiniLoGy said:


> If you already love the sound sig of HD800S, Jotty is a great amp for it.
> 
> My current setup is a Etir -> Mimby -> Jotty -> HD800S balanced, and the entire setup is essentially to strengthen what's great about the HD800S.



I thought the Mimby had Gen 5? That's a sweet rig though man. It's nice to hear that though the Jot 800S might not be for everyone, it pleases some.


----------



## deFiniLoGy

Tohex said:


> I thought the Mimby had Gen 5? That's a sweet rig though man. It's nice to hear that though the Jot 800S might not be for everyone, it pleases some.



My Mimby was purchased before Gen 5 was released, and since Mimby is not upgradable I purhcased an Etir for that exact purpose.

Indeed. It's all about preference, I've listened to multiple different combinations that I would afford in my budget, but I settled with this one.

So I'd suggest take all opinions as a grain of salt, your ears will be the judge at the very end.


----------



## Letmebefrank (Mar 27, 2018)

Even mimbys released after Gev 5 USB are still Gen 2 USB. Mike and Jason have both said that modi multibit is already too packed full to fit Gen 5.


----------



## jimmers

Letmebefrank said:


> Even mimbys released after Gev 5 USB are still Gen 3 USB. ...


I think only Yggy had Gen 3 USB


----------



## Letmebefrank

jimmers said:


> I think only Yggy had Gen 3 USB



My bad I meant Gen 2, either way though it doesn't have Gen 5.


----------



## indrakula

bildar said:


> I rec'd my Jotenheim with multibit card yesterday. I am really enjoying it. I have older LCD 3 with fazor upgrade headphones connected to single ended C3 cable.


I will receive multibit dac module soon, pls send steps to install.


----------



## bildar

indrakula said:


> I will receive multibit dac module soon, pls send steps to install.



It was installed at the factory. I have no idea how to install it.


----------



## TheViolentVicar

indrakula said:


> I will receive multibit dac module soon, pls send steps to install.


I’ll be getting mine too. If there’s still interest when it arrives, I’ll show you how to install it.


----------



## Tuneslover

TheViolentVicar said:


> I’ll be getting mine too. If there’s still interest when it arrives, I’ll show you how to install it.



Definitely.  If possible, step-by-step pictures would be very helpful.


----------



## TheViolentVicar

Tuneslover said:


> Definitely.  If possible, step-by-step pictures would be very helpful.



You bet.  Mine's been ordered but has not yet shipped, and I'm in Canada, so it'll be a few days.  If I have the ability to post pics (I believe there are restrictions on what new members can do until they reach a certain number of posts), I will do so.


----------



## Phasor

I can't post any pics because I've already done the MB upgrade to Jot. However, here are the steps that I did to do it.

1. Remove the volume knob (1/16" hex driver) then the nut and washer behind the volume knob.
2. Remove all the screws in the back (phillips head screw driver)
3. Remove the screws on the bottom of the chassis as the upgrade board comes with an aluminum standoff that must be installed.
4. Install the aluminum standoff provided.
5. Plug the MB DAC into the pins on the main board.
6. Attach the DAC to the standoff with provided screw.
7. Reassemble everything back.

That is how I did it and I'm sure that there may be other ways. Hope this helps.


----------



## Alcophone

Jotunheim with front switch.



Wanted to share that mod with you before I undid it (no longer needed).


----------



## lystor (Mar 29, 2018)

Can someone compare Jotunheim and Magni 3 in sound quality?

Is it worth upgrading from Magni 3 to Jotunheim (SE only)?

Thank you


----------



## indrakula

Phasor said:


> I can't post any pics because I've already done the MB upgrade to Jot. However, here are the steps that I did to do it.
> 
> 1. Remove the volume knob (1/16" hex driver) then the nut and washer behind the volume knob.
> 2. Remove all the screws in the back (phillips head screw driver)
> ...


Thanks, i will try these steps as i will receive my multi dac tomorrow


----------



## Phasor

indrakula said:


> Thanks, i will try these steps as i will receive my multi dac tomorrow



Once you get everything open you will see that it's pretty straight forward. Just carefully line up the pins and socket from DAC to mainboard and push down.


----------



## Decim8r

Peter Ong said:


> Well, I had given the Jot+DAC more than the benefit of the doubt. I really wanted to like it, but tonight, I give into what my ears have been telling me since the beginning.
> 
> This is what I have learned from the Jot+DAC. The DAC is terrible! The amp is very nice. I knew this less than 30 minutes in to listening to it, but I really wanted to like Schiit. I had started the return process with Schiit, but at the last minute, I chose to keep it so now I'm really beyond the return window. But, I can lie to my ears only for so long. I'm supposed to enjoy the music, not keep justifying the Jot+DAC is just as good.
> 
> ...



This review really resonated with me.  I just got my new black Jot + Multibit the other day and I must say that I'm a bit disappointed compared to my two year old Element that I have been using.   Narrow sound stage definitely comes to mind and the voices in songs seem very forward to me.  Imagine the singer basically singing directly into your ear while the band keeps playing.  I have noticed that the bass is significantly more pronounced than the Element, but not sure if that will be a good thing in the long run as it can be a bit fatiguing after a while. 

My caveat is that most of my cans are single ended, so the XLR connects are a bit of waste for me.  Some of my higher driving headphones like my ATH-r70x requires the higher gain to be enabled to really hear anything unless you feel comfortable setting the volume to near max on the low gain mode which is never a good thing.

I listen to a variety of different music sources whether it be YouTube, MP3s, streams from Spotify and some music CDs.  I don't really listen to FLAC or high definition streams like Tidal.  What I can say is that the Jot + Multibit are brutally honest with the source.  Good recordings sound awesome, bad recordings sound like Schiit...Case in point a favorite busker song that I listen to on YouTube, , sounds great with the Element, but utter crap on the Jot.

I currently have the new Lyr3 on the way, hoping that setup will replace my existing Element.  I think I've heard enough from the Jot that it's not worth it to justify the replacement of the Element just yet and will be going back to Schiit during the MBG window.


----------



## sup27606

I thought that the balanced DAC (I thought we need to be specific from now on, since there are more than one DAC modules now) was somewhat harsh sounding with a closed in soundstage and muffled imaging cues. The differences are immediately evident when comparing to a dedicated DAC like the Modi Multibit. To me, the balanced DAC is a good example of compromise design. I think its a waste of money to get the jot with the DAC (I made the mistake!) since it limits the Jot's performance to such an extent. If one is getting the Jot as his/her main listening rig, then it's wiser to get a dedicated DAC like Mimby which would open up Jot's sound. Alternatively, if one is getting the Jot as an auxiliary system and needs a DAC/AMP combo, there may be cheaper options where the performance difference between the DAC and the AMP is not that wide. Either way, to me it seems like a lose/lose situations. That said, if the new multibit DAC module sounds similar to Mimby, it would be a real win/win situation, since the new card can be obtained cheaper than the Mimby and at the same time would reduce clutter. However, its not clear what compromises were adopted to fit the multibit card into the Jot enclosure and what effects they have on the music, especially when Mike Moffat said many times that it's extremely challenging to fit a multibit DAC inside Jot, if not impossible.


----------



## Tuneslover

sup27606 said:


> I thought that the balanced DAC (I thought we need to be specific from now on, since there are more than one DAC modules now) was somewhat harsh sounding with a closed in soundstage and muffled imaging cues. The differences are immediately evident when comparing to a dedicated DAC like the Modi Multibit. To me, the balanced DAC is a good example of compromise design. I think its a waste of money to get the jot with the DAC (I made the mistake!) since it limits the Jot's performance to such an extent. If one is getting the Jot as his/her main listening rig, then it's wiser to get a dedicated DAC like Mimby which would open up Jot's sound. Alternatively, if one is getting the Jot as an auxiliary system and needs a DAC/AMP combo, there may be cheaper options where the performance difference between the DAC and the AMP is not that wide. Either way, to me it seems like a lose/lose situations. That said, if the new multibit DAC module sounds similar to Mimby, it would be a real win/win situation, since the new card can be obtained cheaper than the Mimby and at the same time would reduce clutter. However, its not clear what compromises were adopted to fit the multibit card into the Jot enclosure and what effects they have on the music, especially when Mike Moffat said many times that it's extremely challenging to fit a multibit DAC inside Jot, if not impossible.




Yeah I just never fully understood Schiit's venture into the Jot+DAC module when they were so against all in one components.  Yeah I get it that it's design is flexible (with or without DAC) but it seems limited in that only the USB input gets the DAC signal, especially for me that primarily use's the coaxial and toslink inputs.  I bought the Jot (amp only) and have it connected to the Bimby that I already owned.  They sound and look terrific stacked.


----------



## MWSVette (Mar 31, 2018)

Tuneslover said:


> Yeah I just never fully understood Schiit's venture into the Jot+DAC module when they were so against all in one components.  Yeah I get it that it's design is flexible (with or without DAC) but it seems limited in that only the USB input gets the DAC signal, especially for me that primarily use's the coaxial and toslink inputs.  I bought the Jot (amp only) and have it connected to the Bimby that I already owned.  They sound and look terrific stacked.



Agreed I too bought the Jot amp only.  The add-on cards for me were not necessary as I already had a Bimby.  Even now with the multibit card unless I absolutely had to have an all in one the Mimby or Bimby are better DACs and more flexible.

When it was only the Jot I was not concerned, but now with the Lyr 3 going in the Amp/DAC direction and Jason talking about an AB class Asgard 3 Amp/DAC and potentially doing away with the Valhalla 2. I begin to wonder if Schiit is moving away from their each component in its own box philosophy.

I would hate to see that as I love stackable Schiit...


----------



## Bazirker

Tuneslover said:


> Yeah I just never fully understood Schiit's venture into the Jot+DAC module when they were so against all in one components.  Yeah I get it that it's design is flexible (with or without DAC) but it seems limited in that only the USB input gets the DAC signal, especially for me that primarily use's the coaxial and toslink inputs.  I bought the Jot (amp only) and have it connected to the Bimby that I already owned.  They sound and look terrific stacked.



Schiit is just listening to the market.  I personally much prefer combined DAC/amps, largely because space is a premium for me and I don't want a massive stack on my desk.  There's something about having a single box that handles my audio...I get what you're saying though.


----------



## dr cornelius

It is interesting to see Schiit moving forward with more DAC/amp combos - it looks like a response to consumer demand.  Also the fact that Schiit approaches their DACs with upgradeability, the combo idea is a natural direction IMO.  I went with the original balanced DAC, knowing that I’ll upgrade when they come out with the next change, so now I’ll try the Multibit.  I have a feeling most people are listening with a Jot straight out of their computer, so the USB is enough.


----------



## Tuneslover

dr cornelius said:


> It is interesting to see Schiit moving forward with more DAC/amp combos - it looks like a response to consumer demand.  Also the fact that Schiit approaches their DACs with upgradeability, the combo idea is a natural direction IMO.  I went with the original balanced DAC, knowing that I’ll upgrade when they come out with the next change, so now I’ll try the Multibit.  I have a feeling most people are listening with a Jot straight out of their computer, so the USB is enough.



I suppose if market demands this then that's what they need to do.  I only hope that they don't make compromises in sound quality just so that they can fit in a DAC for DAC's sake.


----------



## Bazirker

Tuneslover said:


> I suppose if market demands this then that's what they need to do.  I only hope that they don't make compromises in sound quality just so that they can fit in a DAC for DAC's sake.



Of course they're making a compromise somewhere, or else they wouldn't bother making their stand-alone DACs so large, and the integrated DACs wouldn't cost less than stand-alone.  I struggle to imagine the new integrated multibit DAC somehow matches the performance of a stand-alone mimby, but I suppose it's possible.  One would hope that a consumer spending hundreds of dollars on a piece of niche audio equipment would take the time to research sound quality and understand the trade-off they're making.


----------



## Tuneslover

Bazirker said:


> Of course they're making a compromise somewhere, or else they wouldn't bother making their stand-alone DACs so large, and the integrated DACs wouldn't cost less than stand-alone.  I struggle to imagine the new integrated multibit DAC somehow matches the performance of a stand-alone mimby, but I suppose it's possible.  One would hope that a consumer spending hundreds of dollars on a piece of niche audio equipment would take the time to research sound quality and understand the trade-off they're making.



I too wonder if there is an audio quality difference (compromise???) regarding the full sized Bifrost MB versus MB option for the Jot.  However I can say that there is very very little difference between my Bimby and Mimby.  The only thing is that the Mimby gets quite warm and isn't upgradable.  Physical component upgrading (requiring shipping my unit back to Schiit) has no appeal to me.  I simply buy a new unit and sell the outdated one.


----------



## Oklahoma

I need to go through mike's thread but I believe he said the mb card for jot and lyr was the same as mimby just without the extra inputs.


----------



## alpovs

MWSVette said:


> When it was only the Jot I was not concerned, but now with the Lyr 3 going in the Amp/DAC direction and Jason talking about an AB class Asgard 3 Amp/DAC and potentially doing away with the Valhalla 2. I begin to wonder if Schiit is moving away from their each component in its own box philosophy.


I think this doesn't violate their philosophy because one can still buy separate components. For example, Jot or Lyr 3 as amps only and Mimby or Bimby non-multibit or multibit etc.


----------



## rkw

Tuneslover said:


> I too wonder if there is an audio quality difference (compromise???) regarding the full sized Bifrost MB versus MB option for the Jot.


One compromise is that the Jot cards don't have the Gen 5 USB interface of the Bimby.


----------



## jimmers (Mar 31, 2018)

rkw said:


> One compromise is that the Jot cards don't have the Gen 5 USB interface of the Bimby.


I'd rather have a little Schiit on top of a Jot (Mimby) for the same cost as a Schiit module installation.
- still no Gen 5 but would have S/PDIF for alternate source (pie steamer etc.).
( I have a Gen 2 Bimby, use Coax, so no point in Gen 5 for me).


----------



## Sabron

Hey guys, sorry to hi-jack the thread here, but I've been given a pair of HD650s. I am currently running it with a Fulla 2 and was wondering if I was to get a Jot with no module (AMP only), would the Fulla 2 DAC suffice with it? Thank you.


----------



## rkw

Sabron said:


> Hey guys, sorry to hi-jack the thread here, but I've been given a pair of HD650s. I am currently running it with a Fulla 2 and was wondering if I was to get a Jot with no module (AMP only), would the Fulla 2 DAC suffice with it? Thank you.


Yes, you can use Fulla-2 as a DAC and connect it to the Jot RCA inputs. It would be best to use the fixed (not variable) line-out in the back and you would need a 3.5mm stereo to RCA adapter cable.

Of course, Fulla-2 is at the lower end of the Schiit product line for DACs and you will get improvements as you upgrade the DAC.


----------



## MtnMan307

In balanced mode, the Jot is an awesome match for the 650s.  Even at 300 ohms it has gobs of power on tap and you will probably notice a huge step up from the Fulla 2.


----------



## DavidA

MtnMan307 said:


> In balanced mode, the Jot is an awesome match for the 650s.  Even at 300 ohms it has gobs of power on tap and you will probably notice a huge step up from the Fulla 2.


Agree that the Jot is a pretty good amp for the HD650 since its a bit on the bright side and makes a decent pairing IMO.  The Jot is a better amp from the balanced output but its not due to the extra power that makes most headphones sound better, it has more to do with the design of the electrical circuits between the SE and balanced output that is making the difference in sound.


----------



## indrakula

Phasor said:


> I can't post any pics because I've already done the MB upgrade to Jot. However, here are the steps that I did to do it.
> 
> 1. Remove the volume knob (1/16" hex driver) then the nut and washer behind the volume knob.
> 2. Remove all the screws in the back (phillips head screw driver)
> ...


Hi,

I have followed the steps and was able to onstall MB dac upgrade board, but it is bit loose as it does not have L shaped brackets as in old board. So support is just on plugged in pins and back alimunium plate. Am i missing something here? 

Schitt just send an aliminium plate with one screw along with upgrade dac board. So i guess thats it?


----------



## UNOE

Is it easy to remove the Phono PCB for a Dac upgrade?


----------



## MtnMan307

DavidA said:


> Agree that the Jot is a pretty good amp for the HD650 since its a bit on the bright side and makes a decent pairing IMO.  The Jot is a better amp from the balanced output but its not due to the extra power that makes most headphones sound better, it has more to do with the design of the electrical circuits between the SE and balanced output that is making the difference in sound.


I think it’s a combination of the power, the channel separation of balanced, and the aggressive sound of the Jotunheim.  The 650 is a pretty laid back headphone and kind of dark of course. The Jot, as you pointed out, is a little bright, but helps the 650 deliver a stronger low end with all that power. 900mW at 300 ohms ain’t no joke for a headphone amp. The dynamics and resolution take a step up from less powerful amps.


----------



## K.J.

I am definitely also among those, needing to know how this new multibit DAC section compares to the Mimby. 

If it's literally just a USB only Mimby I'm about to be _all over_ this upgrade.


----------



## DavidA

MtnMan307 said:


> I think it’s a combination of the power, the channel separation of balanced, and the aggressive sound of the Jotunheim.  The 650 is a pretty laid back headphone and kind of dark of course. The Jot, as you pointed out, is a little bright, but helps the 650 deliver a stronger low end with all that power. 900mW at 300 ohms ain’t no joke for a headphone amp. The dynamics and resolution take a step up from less powerful amps.


I don't agree that its the power since to me my BH Crack (slightly modded, way less power output than the Jot) is a better pairing providing better dynamics, resolution while keeping the basic character of the HD650/6XX and is a great match for the HD700, HD800 and T1gen1 where the Jot just doesn't pair well with any of them even if it has the power.  Another way to look at it is the HD650 only needs 0.1 w to reach 103dB so unless you are trying to damage your hearing all that power is not being used.


----------



## MtnMan307

DavidA said:


> I don't agree that its the power since to me my BH Crack (slightly modded, way less power output than the Jot) is a better pairing providing better dynamics, resolution while keeping the basic character of the HD650/6XX and is a great match for the HD700, HD800 and T1gen1 where the Jot just doesn't pair well with any of them even if it has the power.  Another way to look at it is the HD650 only needs 0.1 w to reach 103dB so unless you are trying to damage your hearing all that power is not being used.


Could be true.  I've only really used my Vali 2 and Jot with the 650s so far from an exhaustive experience with this headphone.


----------



## DavidA

MtnMan307 said:


> Could be true.  I've only really used my Vali 2 and Jot with the 650s so far from an exhaustive experience with this headphone.


See if you can try the HD650 on a OTL amp and see if its something you like over a SS amp like the Jot, we all have different preferences so its good to try different set ups to help one find their "end game" but sadly there is no end game for most in this crazy hobby.


----------



## one-eyed-xander

indrakula said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have followed the steps and was able to onstall MB dac upgrade board, but it is bit loose as it does not have L shaped brackets as in old board. So support is just on plugged in pins and back alimunium plate. Am i missing something here?
> 
> Schitt just send an aliminium plate with one screw along with upgrade dac board. So i guess thats it?



You probably should contact Schiit about this. The upgrade DAC should come with a standoff which you screw the upgrade board to.

If it’s any consolation, my upgrade came with the standoff but no back bracket. However they were super responsive and have shipped me the missing part.

When it arrives I’ll post further impressions of the upgrade experience.


----------



## indrakula (Apr 3, 2018)

one-eyed-xander said:


> You probably should contact Schiit about this. The upgrade DAC should come with a standoff which you screw the upgrade board to.
> 
> If it’s any consolation, my upgrade came with the standoff but no back bracket. However they were super responsive and have shipped me the missing part.
> 
> When it arrives I’ll post further impressions of the upgrade experience.


Thanks, i have contacted Schiit and they shipped missing parts. I am happy with their response time.


----------



## Tuneslover (Apr 2, 2018)

MtnMan307 said:


> I think it’s a combination of the power, the channel separation of balanced, and the aggressive sound of the Jotunheim.  The 650 is a pretty laid back headphone and kind of dark of course. The Jot, as you pointed out, is a little bright, but helps the 650 deliver a stronger low end with all that power. 900mW at 300 ohms ain’t no joke for a headphone amp. The dynamics and resolution take a step up from less powerful amps.



Well said, I fully agree with your analysis.  I too owned the Vali 2 (actually sold it yesterday) and while the HD650 did sound reasonably good with it I found that the sound of the HD650 a bit restrained.  The Jotunheim seems to be able to get a grip on the HD650 dirvers and really make them sing.  I dare say there is absolutely no hint of veil when driven by the Jotunheim.


----------



## reddog

I really like my Jot and how well it drives Mr Speakers Aeon closed back as well as my Audeze LCD i4.  Plus the Jot is very tough, my fat cat pushed it of m desk and it fell into my printer. I have one dead printer and the jot did not have a scratch on it and still sounds great.  I hope to get a Lyre 3 sometime soon


----------



## Ho Kim

Sorry to interrupt the discussion on the hd650; however, has anyone tried the Jotunheim with Dac module balanced to Audeze LCD XCs? From what I hear the Jotunheim seems to be on the bright side and I am not sure if they would be a good pair with the LCD XCs. I prefer powerful bass, smooth vocals, and clear highs(not hot). Thank you so much. And can anyone compare the Jotunheim to the Ifi Micro IDSD Black Label or Audeze Deckard? Thank You!!


----------



## aarontyson

one-eyed-xander said:


> You probably should contact Schiit about this. The upgrade DAC should come with a standoff which you screw the upgrade board to.
> 
> If it’s any consolation, my upgrade came with the standoff but no back bracket. However they were super responsive and have shipped me the missing part.
> 
> When it arrives I’ll post further impressions of the upgrade experience.


Same happened to me. No stand off between the main board and the DAC board.


----------



## bgbkt

I went through latest posts since new Jot was announced but it's still not clear to me. Is new Jot with Multibit DAC same as getting new Jot and external Mimby (don't care for any other input than USB).

I have Magni 3/Mimby combo at work desk and was considering upgrading Magni 3 to Jot. After seeing new Jot announcement I would replace both with new Jot with Multibit module if sound quality is same. It would help cleaning up my desk too.


----------



## LepakVT

bgbkt said:


> I went through latest posts since new Jot was announced but it's still not clear to me. Is new Jot with Multibit DAC same as getting new Jot and external Mimby (don't care for any other input than USB).
> 
> I have Magni 3/Mimby combo at work desk and was considering upgrading Magni 3 to Jot. After seeing new Jot announcement I would replace both with new Jot with Multibit module if sound quality is same. It would help cleaning up my desk too.




Schiit's introduction post for the Jotunheim Multibit calls its multibit DAC "...essentially a Modi Multibit with a single input—USB"

http://www.schiit.com/about/news/introducing-jotunheim-multibit


----------



## O.C. Audiophile

aarontyson said:


> Same happened to me. No stand off between the main board and the DAC board.



I was missing the stand-off with my upgrade kit as well.  They sent a kit within an hour of me contacting them, but I had already waited 10 days for the board to arrive (and I paid for 2 day shipping).  It will be almost 3 weeks from ordering to being able to install the module!  I've had excellent experiences with Schiit in the past, but this was nothing short of a sorry effort.


----------



## O.C. Audiophile

Tuneslover said:


> Well said, I fully agree with your analysis.  I too owned the Vali 2 (actually sold it yesterday) and while the HD650 did sound reasonably good with it I found that the sound of the HD650 a bit restrained.  The Jotunheim seems to be able to get a grip on the HD650 dirvers and really make them sing.  I dare say there is absolutely no hint of veil when driven by the Jotunheim.



Are you running them off of the balanced output?  I really like the balanced side of the Jot with all of my HD6xx series cans.  I will admit, however, the Woo Audio WA3 I just purchased makes the Senns sing like nothing I've ever heard!


----------



## Tuneslover

O.C. Audiophile said:


> Are you running them off of the balanced output?  I really like the balanced side of the Jot with all of my HD6xx series cans.  I will admit, however, the Woo Audio WA3 I just purchased makes the Senns sing like nothing I've ever heard!



I converted both of my stock HD650 and stock HE500 cables to balanced just so that I can take advantage of the Jot's balance output.  I kept my HD6XX cable as single ended but I have tried it with my converted HD650 balance cable as well.


----------



## O.C. Audiophile

Tuneslover said:


> I converted both of my stock HD650 and stock HE500 cables to balanced just so that I can take advantage of the Jot's balance output.  I kept my HD6XX cable as single ended but I have tried it with my converted HD650 balance cable as well.



Thanks for the reply!  I picked up a couple balanced cables for my HD600/HD650/HD660S, and one for my HD700.  I really like the improvement to the sound of all the HD's when using the balanced cables with the Jot.


----------



## wilman0527

Ho Kim said:


> Sorry to interrupt the discussion on the hd650; however, has anyone tried the Jotunheim with Dac module balanced to Audeze LCD XCs? From what I hear the Jotunheim seems to be on the bright side and I am not sure if they would be a good pair with the LCD XCs. I prefer powerful bass, smooth vocals, and clear highs(not hot). Thank you so much. And can anyone compare the Jotunheim to the Ifi Micro IDSD Black Label or Audeze Deckard? Thank You!!




I find the jot/Multibit to be a very good match for the XC I find it very detailed and bass is awesome. Its my favorite setup right now.


----------



## Ho Kim

wilman0527 said:


> I find the jot/Multibit to be a very good match for the XC I find it very detailed and bass is awesome. Its my favorite setup right now.


Hello, thank you for the response can you go deeper into the sound character. I am mostly worried about the setup being bright or harsh in the treble. Also does balance make a difference for the lcd XC? Thank you so much!


----------



## O.C. Audiophile (Apr 6, 2018)

Phasor said:


> I can't post any pics because I've already done the MB upgrade to Jot. However, here are the steps that I did to do it.
> 
> 1. Remove the volume knob (1/16" hex driver) then the nut and washer behind the volume knob.
> 2. Remove all the screws in the back (phillips head screw driver)
> ...



I was able to do the swap by removing the volume knob, the nut and washer behind the volume knob (remove aluminum housing here), the screw that attached the window filler piece to the case, and one screw that held the old DAC module to the main board (remove module here).  I installed the standoff to the main board, installed the new window filler piece, plugged in the new MB DAC module, and screwed it to the standoff.  I don't see that it's necessary to remove all the screws on the back or any off the screws on the bottom.  I should also add that you need to be careful when re-seating the aluminum cover so the power light goes back into the hole in the cover.  It's also best to have the 2 front switches (Gain/Source) in the down position.  They go back through the slots in the cover easier during re-assembly when in the down position.


----------



## wemedge

Apologies if this is a silly question- how is the knob-turning feel on the Jotunheim? Is it smooth and heavy (weighted) or light? Am thinking about ordering one. Thanks.


----------



## EtRec

O.C. Audiophile said:


> I was able to do the swap by removing the volume knob, the nut and washer behind the volume knob (remove aluminum housing here), the screw that attached the window filler piece to the case, and one screw that held the old DAC module to the main board (remove module here). I installed the standoff to the main board, installed the new window filler piece, plugged in the new MB DAC module, and screwed it to the standoff. I don't see that it's necessary to remove all the screws on the back or any off the screws on the bottom. I should also add that you need to be careful when re-seating the aluminum cover so the power light goes back into the hole in the cover. It's also best to have the 2 front switches (Gain/Source) in the down position. They go back through the slots in the cover easier during re-assembly when in the down position.



Since some here  have complained that Schitt did not send all the parts needed for self-installation of the Multibit Dac card, it would really be nice if someone listed all the parts that should be included, so as to know whats (if) missing when mine arrives. Also sound impressions of the card would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much.


----------



## jimmers

wemedge said:


> Apologies if this is a silly question- how is the knob-turning feel on the Jotunheim? Is it smooth and heavy (weighted) or light? Am thinking about ordering one. Thanks.


I  like it, smooth, not light, no slop, not weighted like tuner knobs on good vintage tuners (they had flywheels) but quality feel.


----------



## O.C. Audiophile

wemedge said:


> Apologies if this is a silly question- how is the knob-turning feel on the Jotunheim? Is it smooth and heavy (weighted) or light? Am thinking about ordering one. Thanks.



The knob turns smoothly and firmly.  The knob itself is a solid chunk of aluminum and it feels heavy when you turn it.  Best of all, the pot is silent.


----------



## wemedge

O.C. Audiophile said:


> The knob turns smoothly and firmly.  The knob itself is a solid chunk of aluminum and it feels heavy when you turn it.  Best of all, the pot is silent.



Thank you! Good to know.


----------



## O.C. Audiophile (Apr 6, 2018)

EtRec said:


> Since some here  have complained that Schitt did not send all the parts needed for self-installation of the Multibit Dac card, it would really be nice if someone listed all the parts that should be included, so as to know whats (if) missing when mine arrives. Also sound impressions of the card would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much.



This is what you should receive

One Multibit DAC Card in a static protective bag.

One small bag with a window filler piece and a small black screw to attach it to the amp's shell.

One small bag with an aprox. 3/4" to 1" long hexogonal post (standoff) and a small silver screw to attach the DAC module to the standoff.

The standoff has a threaded post sticking out of one end and a tapped hole in the other end.  The threaded end screws into a tapped hole in the main board.  First you install the filler piece (plate on the inside/screw from the outside).  Then you install the standoff in the main board (don't over-tighten!), plug in the DAC, and screw the DAC to the standoff.  You can see the screw hole for  in the DAC if you look at the pictures of the card on the Schiit website.  If you look at the picture of the Jot's main board on the Schiit site you'll see it has the Phono Module attached.  If you look at the phono card you'll see it attached to the main board with a small screw and an "L" bracket.  That's where the standoff gets installed.  The MultiBit card goes in horizontally (not vertically like the 4490 DAC or Phono Modules) so you need the standoff post to secure the MB DAC or there'd be nothing holding it in.  The window filler is simply a filler with a hole for the USB port.

The MB DAC card sounds much better than the 4490 DAC card I originally ordered with the Jot, however, mine was the old 4490 card; not the newer updated version.  The output level from the MB DAC seems higher, and the amp sounds more open on the single-ended side when using my HD6xx series headphones.  I didn't do a good before and after listen (since I'd opened the amp up before I realized I was missing the standoff), but the openness was noticeable and more like what I experience when listening to the HD6xx cans on my Woo WA3.


----------



## Tuneslover

O.C. Audiophile said:


> The knob turns smoothly and firmly.  The knob itself is a solid chunk of aluminum and it feels heavy when you turn it.  Best of all, the pot is silent.



It's a HUGE improvement over the Magni and Vali knobs.


----------



## O.C. Audiophile

Tuneslover said:


> It's a HUGE improvement over the Magni and Vali knobs.



I have a Magni 2U and a Vali 2 which both have the aluminum knob, but I just got the Magni 3 and the knob is crappy plastic.  I may have to make my own aluminum knob for the Magni 3.


----------



## Tuneslover

O.C. Audiophile said:


> I have a Magni 2U and a Vali 2 which both have the aluminum knob, but I just got the Magni 3 and the knob is crappy plastic.  I may have to make my own aluminum knob for the Magni 3.



I didn't like how little the volume knobs were and how "sticky" the turning motion was.  Like I said the Jotunheim knob is velvety smooth.  I also like the knurled volume knob on the Project Ember and how smooth and precise it is even though it's plastic too (I think).


----------



## EtRec

O.C. Audiophile said:


> This is what you should receive
> 
> One Multibit DAC Card in a static protective bag.
> 
> ...



Thank you so much for your very thorough reply.


----------



## O.C. Audiophile

EtRec said:


> Thank you so much for your very thorough reply.



You're Welcome!


----------



## Phasor

O.C. Audiophile said:


> I was able to do the swap by removing the volume knob, the nut and washer behind the volume knob (remove aluminum housing here), the screw that attached the window filler piece to the case, and one screw that held the old DAC module to the main board (remove module here).  I installed the standoff to the main board, installed the new window filler piece, plugged in the new MB DAC module, and screwed it to the standoff.  I don't see that it's necessary to remove all the screws on the back or any off the screws on the bottom.  I should also add that you need to be careful when re-seating the aluminum cover so the power light goes back into the hole in the cover.  It's also best to have the 2 front switches (Gain/Source) in the down position.  They go back through the slots in the cover easier during re-assembly when in the down position.



The reason that I had to remove the main board is because the stand off that I received did not have a stud on one end but was threaded on both ends with a screw for each end do I had to remove the main board to get the screw in from the bottom.


----------



## Ho Kim

Can someone describe the sound of the Jotunheim with Multibit Dac? Is it neutral? Is it bright? What type of a bass does it have? Thank so much! Please and thank you!


----------



## O.C. Audiophile

Phasor said:


> The reason that I had to remove the main board is because the stand off that I received did not have a stud on one end but was threaded on both ends with a screw for each end do I had to remove the main board to get the screw in from the bottom.



Wow!  That really sucks!  Why would they send something like that when there was already a tapped hole in the main board?  Forcing you to gut the whole amp seems ridiculous when the system I received  was so simple to install.  Between unplugging everything, gathering up my tools, doing the swap and re-assembly was maybe 20 minutes at the most.  When I saw that my kit did not come with a stand-off I fired off an email and they shipped one within an hour.  Had it taken any longer I probably would have made a piece myself at work.


----------



## MtnMan307

Ho Kim said:


> Can someone describe the sound of the Jotunheim with Multibit Dac? Is it neutral? Is it bright? What type of a bass does it have? Thank so much! Please and thank you!


I have the Modi Multibit and amp only Jot, so maybe not spot on, but probably almost the same thing.  I find the combo to be pretty neutral with my 650s and LCD-2, but those are both darker cans.  Maybe a little bright with my K7XX but that's a more neutral headphone with more treble energy than the other two.  The Jot/Mimby is a hell of a combo IMO.  The bass is hard-hitting, clean, and powerful.  I find the Jot to be an incisive, aggressive sounding amp that breathes fire into the laid-back 650s and seems to agree with the LCD-2s very well also.  The balanced output really delivers with both headphones.


----------



## Ho Kim

MtnMan307 said:


> I have the Modi Multibit and amp only Jot, so maybe not spot on, but probably almost the same thing.  I find the combo to be pretty neutral with my 650s and LCD-2, but those are both darker cans.  Maybe a little bright with my K7XX but that's a more neutral headphone with more treble energy than the other two.  The Jot/Mimby is a hell of a combo IMO.  The bass is hard-hitting, clean, and powerful.  I find the Jot to be an incisive, aggressive sounding amp that breathes fire into the laid-back 650s and seems to agree with the LCD-2s very well also.  The balanced output really delivers with both headphones.


Thank you so much!


----------



## Viper2005

Ho Kim said:


> Can someone describe the sound of the Jotunheim with Multibit Dac? Is it neutral? Is it bright? What type of a bass does it have? Thank so much! Please and thank you!



I find my Jot + Multibit to be great with my Auteurs!  Perfect for metal, as it is a very fast amp with lots of impact!


----------



## MtnMan307

I wish I could afford a pair of Auteurs.  I met Zach Mehrbach last October at RMAF and they make some great headphones.


----------



## fenstr

I sold my Schiit Ragnarok and got the Jotunheim with phono module as a drop in replacement. I did this because I didn't need the Ragnarok to power speakers any more and I'd only been using its preamp balanced outputs to connect to my Yamaha HS8 studio monitors.

I wanted the Jotunheim as it offered the balanced options including headphone outs and the phono preamp option was to be an upgrade over the PS Audio Sprout I had been using as my phono preamp.

My setup is now Fiio X3 > coaxial out (bypassing its dac) > modi multibit > Jot > Yamaha HS8s

I agree with previous comments that the Jot's volume knob is smooth and firm. It feels solid and well made but I did initially miss the Ragnarok's smoother dial with its clicking sound. When changing gain on the Jot there's an audible 'clunk' through my monitors but the Ragnarok was silent.

After unplugging the Ragnarok and then substituting in the Jot, the biggest difference I experienced was that the Jot produced strong, overpowering bass through my monitors. After a day or so I ended up turning down the level on my HS8 sub to get the levels right because it was irritating. Now the levels are awesome.

For headphones I converted a cable to balanced for my HD600s and currently also have my HD598s plugged into the SE output. They're both plugged in at the same time at the moment.  For vinyl I'm using the Rega RP6 into the phono preamp.

I have to say that compared to the Ragnarok I haven't detected any loss of detail from either the preamps or the headphone outputs. There seems to be less discrepancy in volume between the Jot's SE and balanced headphone outs than the Ragnarok's. The Jot is a smaller, lighter, more compact unit and doesn't heat up as much as the Ragnarok.

Compared to the PS Audio Sprout's phono preamp the Jot's phono preamp seems to be less veiled offering a clearer wall of sound with more detail throughout but perhaps more noticeable at higher frequencies. The music seems to be more natural and immerses you more into that feeling of being at the venue as the music is played.

I also have to say that I haven't experienced any of the glare, steeliness, upper-mid-forward-aggressiveness issues that some people have reported with the Jot.

IMO the Jotunheim is a fantastic unit and I've been thoroughly enjoying it as part of my system.  I'd love to hear more impressions and reviews of the Jot's phono preamp as it's excellent value and reportedly better than the Schiit Mani.


----------



## ksorota

I originally purchased the Jot. without a DAC card with the hopes that one day a multi-bit card would be put out.  After some discouraging news from Schiit regarding the, lower than likely chance I got a Bifrost to upgrade my gen one Modi.  The Gen 5 USB 4490 Bifrost was such a jump up in quality from the Modi that i was quite pleased.  I bought the Bifrost over the modi multi due to the hype of Gen 5 usb and its upgradeability, as well as the unknown (multi-bit). 

At the release of the new DAC cards I was ready to give multi-bit a chance, now I was put in an odd position...upgrade Bifrost or the Jot. I rationalized trying the Jot card first and if I did not notice an improvement I would trade it in for the Bifrost upgrade.  Installation was a breeze, but upon first listen I noticed a very hot treble that was disappointing to say the least. I saw the Mike's post about burn in time and just let it run.  

After a few days of running I tried the multi-Jot again and found a noticeable decrease in the treble harshness and an increase in the low end. So far so good, still about inline with the Bifrost.  The new multi-bit card was easily competing with the Bifrost, I was surprised!

Upon first listen this morning (after 3-days away with the Jot being left on) I could not believe the improvement in sound.  I am noticing a greater separation and clarity in all my music!  The bass is more impactful as well.  The more natural reproduction of guitar notes seems to one of the biggest gains I have noticed this morning. I keep getting lost in the music. 

The one downside... poorly recorded music really bites hard.  Going from Daft punk's Voyager (Great recording) to Gnarls Barkley's Gone Daddy Gone(poor quality) was painful.  I am convinced now to let the Bifrost go, although, I cannot help but wonder what the Bimby would have sounded like with the Jot.

Anyone else notice the Jot. running warmer with the multi-bit module? Is it running warmer because I am running the internal DAC vs. feeding it with the former external DAC (Bifrost)?


For reference I am listening through M1060's and my Oppo PM-1's and both sound fantastic on the Jot.


----------



## rkw

ksorota said:


> Anyone else notice the Jot. running warmer with the multi-bit module? Is it running warmer because I am running the internal DAC vs. feeding it with the former external DAC (Bifrost)?


Yes of course a powered DAC card (whether multibit or 4490) generates heat, vs. no DAC card at all.


----------



## K.J.

Anyone gone from the 4490 to the MB module, and have impressions to offer?


----------



## O.C. Audiophile

ksorota said:


> Anyone else notice the Jot. running warmer with the multi-bit module? Is it running warmer because I am running the internal DAC vs. feeding it with the former external DAC (Bifrost)?



I had the original 4490 DAC in my Jot, and I'd say I do notice that it is running a bit hotter with the MB module (though as the owner of an Asgard 2 I would actually call the heat level of the Jot merely "warm").  Some of the additional heat may be due to the MB module being larger, having more electronics on it, and and being mounted horizontally instead of vertically.  It can been seen when looking straight down into the vent holes where the 4490 couldn't, so it is forcing some of the heat from the main board to work it's way around to escape instead of being able to rise straight out of the vents.

I was also wondering if anyone knows if the MB DAC module has a higher output level vs the original 4490?  Was the original 4490 1.5V output and the new MB 2V?  It seems like it's taking less twist on the pot to get to the levels I generally listen at.


----------



## O.C. Audiophile (Apr 9, 2018)

K.J. said:


> Anyone gone from the 4490 to the MB module, and have impressions to offer?



I had the OG 4490 and I swapped to the MB module.  It was almost 5 days between me taking out the 4490 and installing the MB (Schiit forgot to send the standoff in my kit) so take my impressions with a grain of salt.  I think the new MB module has a higher output level (good), my HD6xx series cans (I have them all) sound much more open (like with my Woo WA3/BF MB), the treble is excellent, and the bass feels more powerful and controlled.  I think if I were able to listen to a 4490 and a MB side-by-side it would be really easy to hear the differences between the 2.  Like another poster stated, I'm also considering selling my Bifrost MB, and I wasn't thinking that until I installed the new Jot MB module.  I don't know if it's the fact that it's multibit or if it's just a better design (it would be interesting to hear the G2 4490 vs the MB) but I'm really liking it.


----------



## ksorota

O.C. Audiophile said:


> I was also wondering if anyone knows if the MB DAC module has a higher output level vs the original 4490? Was the original 4490 1.5V output and the new MB 2V? It seems like it's taking less twist on the pot to get to the levels I generally listen at



The output level is higher than my external Bifrost was by a pretty noticeable amount.


----------



## TheViolentVicar

Do people still want a visual how-to on installing the DAC module?  Mine should be here today (finally).  If it comes with all the parts, I'll install it tonight.


----------



## aisalen

I am planning to get the Mimby to upgrade the internal dac of my Jot. Beside of the added connectivity option, do you think it is better than the internal mb being offered today for Jot? Is the MB have a large difference in sq compared with my smsl m8 dac for those who have experience using the two?


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## kevlar51

Picked up a used Jot with internal phono module. It's replacing a Magni 3, DJ Art II, and an old passive RCA switch box. I also have a Fulla 2 hooked up as DAC-only, which I plan on replacing with a Mimby some time soon. I typically listen with HD650s (now with a balanced cable).

I'm just a couple days in. So far the sound is great, but I wouldn't say I was entirely unhappy with my old set-up either. It's hardly a night-and-day-difference. I think I'll need to hook up my Magni 3 again and A/B test to see if Jot is truly worth hanging on to, or if I'd be just as pleased selling it and re-investing in a Stack. The Jot is certainly more convenient in that I'm replacing multiple items (plus the switch had been awkwardly out of the way and hard to reach), so if I went Stack, I'd probably also pick up a Sys.


----------



## Tuneslover

kevlar51 said:


> Picked up a used Jot with internal phono module. It's replacing a Magni 3, DJ Art II, and an old passive RCA switch box. I also have a Fulla 2 hooked up as DAC-only, which I plan on replacing with a Mimby some time soon. I typically listen with HD650s (now with a balanced cable).
> 
> I'm just a couple days in. So far the sound is great, but I wouldn't say I was entirely unhappy with my old set-up either. It's hardly a night-and-day-difference. I think I'll need to hook up my Magni 3 again and A/B test to see if Jot is truly worth hanging on to, or if I'd be just as pleased selling it and re-investing in a Stack. The Jot is certainly more convenient in that I'm replacing multiple items (plus the switch had been awkwardly out of the way and hard to reach), so if I went Stack, I'd probably also pick up a Sys.



I'd be interested in hearing your comparison between the Jot and Magni3.


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## K.J.

TheViolentVicar said:


> Do people still want a visual how-to on installing the DAC module?  Mine should be here today (finally).  If it comes with all the parts, I'll install it tonight.


Yes please to the visual. Would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## TheViolentVicar

OK.  It's installed and working.  Stay tuned for the write-up, if I can post pics yet.  Here is a test:


----------



## TheViolentVicar

Yeah, apparently it doesn't work.


----------



## TheViolentVicar

I may have to do a PDF with pics and stick it on DropBox.


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## TheViolentVicar

Stay tuned; I'll work it out.


----------



## Mirakoolz

kevlar51 said:


> Picked up a used Jot with internal phono module. It's replacing a Magni 3, DJ Art II, and an old passive RCA switch box. I also have a Fulla 2 hooked up as DAC-only, which I plan on replacing with a Mimby some time soon. I typically listen with HD650s (now with a balanced cable).
> 
> I'm just a couple days in. So far the sound is great, but I wouldn't say I was entirely unhappy with my old set-up either. It's hardly a night-and-day-difference. I think I'll need to hook up my Magni 3 again and A/B test to see if Jot is truly worth hanging on to, or if I'd be just as pleased selling it and re-investing in a Stack. The Jot is certainly more convenient in that I'm replacing multiple items (plus the switch had been awkwardly out of the way and hard to reach), so if I went Stack, I'd probably also pick up a Sys.



Best post ever. keeping it real!


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## TheViolentVicar (Apr 12, 2018)

OK, Let's try this again.

This is how to install the multibit DAC module in your Jotunheim.  I can't be bothered fighting with the interface to post pics, so I link to the PDF on DropBox.


----------



## FLTWS

TheViolentVicar said:


> OK, Let's try this again.
> 
> This is how to install the multibit DAC module in your Jotunheim.  I can't be bothered fighting with the interface to post pics, so I link to the PDF on DropBox.



Nicely done instructions.


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## Ho Kim

Hello, can anyone provide detail on the Audio GD NFB 28 compared to the Jotunheim?


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## Viper2005

TheViolentVicar said:


> OK, Let's try this again.
> 
> This is how to install the multibit DAC module in your Jotunheim.  I can't be bothered fighting with the interface to post pics, so I link to the PDF on DropBox.



Thank you for the instructions!


----------



## Bazirker

TheViolentVicar said:


> OK, Let's try this again.
> 
> This is how to install the multibit DAC module in your Jotunheim.  I can't be bothered fighting with the interface to post pics, so I link to the PDF on DropBox.



That looks awesome! Thanks for all the effort!


----------



## Decim8r

TheViolentVicar said:


> OK, Let's try this again.
> 
> This is how to install the multibit DAC module in your Jotunheim.  I can't be bothered fighting with the interface to post pics, so I link to the PDF on DropBox.



Nice piece of work.  I find it very odd that Schiit left those pin connectors unterminated.  At least use some sort of ribbon or male-female socket connectors to make it easier for the DIY crowd.


----------



## aisalen

TheViolentVicar said:


> OK, Let's try this again.
> 
> This is how to install the multibit DAC module in your Jotunheim.  I can't be bothered fighting with the interface to post pics, so I link to the PDF on DropBox.


Very nice, thanks.


----------



## rkw

TheViolentVicar said:


> OK, Let's try this again.
> 
> This is how to install the multibit DAC module in your Jotunheim.  I can't be bothered fighting with the interface to post pics, so I link to the PDF on DropBox.


Well done, it will be useful for many members. For your reference, to post pics you can click on the "Upload a File" button. After the pic file is uploaded, it gives you a choice of embedding it in the post as a full size pic or as a thumbnail link.


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## TheViolentVicar (Apr 13, 2018)

Glad people are finding the guide useful.  I know it isn't rocket surgery, but sometimes it's nice to know beforehand what you're getting into, especially if you are not a DIYer by natural inclination.  Plus it may allow people to decide whether they want to pay Schiit to install the MB DAC or do it themselves.

Thanks for the tip on how to post pics.  I got frustrated and gave up, but now I know what to do next time!  I will probably redo the guide as a proper post and then kill the DropBox link.


----------



## zyglrox17

Is anyone here driving LCD2c or X with the Jotty? If so how do you like the pairing?


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## TheViolentVicar (Apr 13, 2018)

I use LCD-2, second gen (old body, updated drivers, no Fazors).  The combo is pleasing indeed.  Neutral with plenty of power.  The Jot's a wonder, especially at this price.  I used a Phonitor-X with DAC for a while, but the Jot holds its own against the SPL and is MUCH cheaper.   Plus it fits on my desktop more easily.


----------



## TheViolentVicar

I should say that I am using the balanced connection, not the TRS connection.


----------



## zyglrox17

TheViolentVicar said:


> I use LCD-2, second gen (old body, updated drivers, no Fazors).  The combo is pleasing indeed.  Neutral with plenty of power.  The Jot's a wonder, especially at this price.  I used a Phonitor-X with DAC for a while, but the Jot holds its own against the SPL and is MUCH cheaper.   Plus it fits on my desktop more easily.


That's great. Yeah Jotty's pretty compact in size and I didn't have to get a bigger pc desk because of it. I'm thinking about taking my Jot with me to audition the 2c and X because the store is more than a 90 minute drive away. Better safe than sorry.


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## TheViolentVicar (Apr 13, 2018)

zyglrox17 said:


> That's great. Yeah Jotty's pretty compact in size and I didn't have to get a bigger pc desk because of it. I'm thinking about taking my Jot with me to audition the 2c and X because the store is more than a 90 minute drive away. Better safe than sorry.



Good idea.  While you're at it, you might bring a source you are familiar with.  Variability in source quality will dwarf the difference (if there is any) between and among amplifiers.


----------



## zyglrox17

TheViolentVicar said:


> Good idea.  While you're at it, you might bring a source you are familiar with.  Variability in source quality will dwarf the difference (if there is any) between and among amplifiers.


You're right. I'll take my laptop as well. Thanks.


----------



## terminatetrails

Thought y'all might want to see my impressions here (already posted this on Mike and Jason's boards).  Received my Jot MB card yesterday and promptly installed [that top did not want to come off!] to create one of the first ever Schwarz Jotumbis! Testing was brutal- 2hrs on Utopia, followed by 3 more hours on double Vidar->Klipsch Cornwall III (AB'd vs. Gumby); followed by another 2+ hours back on the Utopias/T1's/LCD-XC. My head still hurts- was it all the Schiit testing or tequila? Both?
Initial impression: Mike is right- card definitely needs breaking in (some harshness in the treble), but remarkably good already for CAB! Don't expect this thing to bring the buttery smoothness or resolution of the Gumby/MJ stack, but I can take my Jotumbi EVERYWHERE!
Thank you Jason and Mike for another slam dunk!
One concern: USB seems very picky; won't work at all with IPad, fine on Windows 10, Mac Mini and IPhone, but requires fiddling with the cable on the back every time. Anyone else here have this problem?


----------



## Ho Kim

terminatetrails said:


> Thought y'all might want to see my impressions here (already posted this on Mike and Jason's boards).  Received my Jot MB card yesterday and promptly installed [that top did not want to come off!] to create one of the first ever Schwarz Jotumbis! Testing was brutal- 2hrs on Utopia, followed by 3 more hours on double Vidar->Klipsch Cornwall III (AB'd vs. Gumby); followed by another 2+ hours back on the Utopias/T1's/LCD-XC. My head still hurts- was it all the Schiit testing or tequila? Both?
> Initial impression: Mike is right- card definitely needs breaking in (some harshness in the treble), but remarkably good already for CAB! Don't expect this thing to bring the buttery smoothness or resolution of the Gumby/MJ stack, but I can take my Jotumbi EVERYWHERE!
> Thank you Jason and Mike for another slam dunk!
> One concern: USB seems very picky; won't work at all with IPad, fine on Windows 10, Mac Mini and IPhone, but requires fiddling with the cable on the back every time. Anyone else here have this problem?


Thank you for your impressions! Can you tell me more about the Jotumbi and LCD-XC combo? Thank You!!


----------



## terminatetrails

Ho Kim said:


> Thank you for your impressions! Can you tell me more about the Jotumbi and LCD-XC combo? Thank You!!


It's basically the only amp I have ever used with the LCD-XC (balanced).  I have no other high end closed cans to compare it with.  This combo is simply my normal (with the 4490 card).  I have not had opportunity to burn-in/do extensive testing with the mb card yet, but, I will update as I have opportunity.


----------



## Ho Kim

terminatetrails said:


> It's basically the only amp I have ever used with the LCD-XC (balanced).  I have no other high end closed cans to compare it with.  This combo is simply my normal (with the 4490 card).  I have not had opportunity to burn-in/do extensive testing with the mb card yet, but, I will update as I have opportunity.


That would be very much appreciated!!


----------



## UNOE

terminatetrails said:


> Thought y'all might want to see my impressions here (already posted this on Mike and Jason's boards).  Received my Jot MB card yesterday and promptly installed [that top did not want to come off!] to create one of the first ever Schwarz Jotumbis! Testing was brutal- 2hrs on Utopia, followed by 3 more hours on double Vidar->Klipsch Cornwall III (AB'd vs. Gumby); followed by another 2+ hours back on the Utopias/T1's/LCD-XC. My head still hurts- was it all the Schiit testing or tequila? Both?
> Initial impression: Mike is right- card definitely needs breaking in (some harshness in the treble), but remarkably good already for CAB! Don't expect this thing to bring the buttery smoothness or resolution of the Gumby/MJ stack, but I can take my Jotumbi EVERYWHERE!
> Thank you Jason and Mike for another slam dunk!
> One concern: USB seems very picky; won't work at all with IPad, fine on Windows 10, Mac Mini and IPhone, but requires fiddling with the cable on the back every time. Anyone else here have this problem?


Interested in how this pairs with XC? ImprssionsIof both amp and DAC separately.


----------



## terminatetrails

What do you all think of "Jumby" as the nickname?
Still testing/breaking in- had a migraine today, so, I'm a little behind a few of you who already have yours burned in.  Will let you know what I think of the Jumby->XC when I'm feeling better and have more break in.  Right now we are on VERY LOW VOLUME.


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## Viper2005 (Apr 15, 2018)

terminatetrails said:


> One concern: USB seems very picky; won't work at all with IPad, fine on Windows 10, Mac Mini and IPhone, but requires fiddling with the cable on the back every time. Anyone else here have this problem?



The multibit dac card works with my ipad with the newer camera kit (the one with USB and lightning ports), but like you I have to pull out and re-insert the usb in the back every time I turn on the Jot, else the ipad won't recognize the dac.  I did not have the issue with the first gen 4490 card.


----------



## MarkF786

I've found the Gen 2 USB implementation to be flaky and I had issues with my iMac (both with my first gen 4490 card and Bimby).  When I upgraded to the Gen 5 USB for by Bimby, all the issues went away.

This is one of the reasons I'm sticking with the Bimby rather than going to the MultiBit card option.


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## terminatetrails (Apr 15, 2018)

Really enjoying the XC today on the Jumby with a dose of War on Drugs.  I have a strong preference for these hp's with rock/pop music where the instruments need to blend together into a whole wall of sound.  I much prefer a more analytical set on Jazz/electronic music and switch over to T1/Utopia/HE-X.  The layering on these types of cans however can be distracting and actually take away for me on rock tracks, so, the whole LCD line is perfect for that. This isn't to say that you can't hear the individual instruments on the XC's, it's just that they feel more coherent than on the more super-analytical cans.
Still don't think I am through the break in phase of the new mb card, however, not complaining, just no miracles yet.


----------



## terminatetrails (Apr 16, 2018)

Replaced the Gen5 USB in my Gumby this morning, not sure I hear a difference, but boy that thing just works.  Sure wish I had something like that in the mb card for the Jot, now it has decided it doesn't like my Iphone or my Ipad!  Literally nada.  Works fine with Windows.  So if you are running PC, you're golden.
  Going at the listening tests more extensively today.  Random unscientific observations:  Everything I threw at the Utopia sounded like Utopia (sorry if I am a dope, but that's what I hear), which is good or bad depending on your preferences.  It always sounds good.  When I throw it on my DAP with a fiio A5, it still sounds nearly the same!  The real standout with Utopia is Jazz music.  In this genre I can clearly hear the superiority of the Gumby/MJ2 stack over Jumby.  Jumby sounds a tiny bit stale/shrill in comparison.  I find myself plugging back into MJ2 for jazz every time.
  LCD-XC had more distinctiveness between the Jot amp section and the MJ2 both being fed by the Gumby.  Still nothing to write home about, just sounds good no matter what!  Minimal distinction on various genres (Dead Can Dance, electronic, Iron and Wine, Pink Floyd). This is actually what I like in these cans- high reliability and versatility.  I'm not saying you don't hear any differences between upstream equipment (you do!), I just think it is more subtle on Utopia and XC- as always IMHO.
  Now, when it came to the T1.1 (balanced mod) we start to see some daylight.  Right now I am not certain how much has to do with Dacs: Gumby vs. Jot mb card or the MJ2 vs. Jot amp section.  What I did listen carefully to was the MJ2 vs. Jot both fed by the Gumby.  The T1's sound more natural, lifelike, on MJ2, the mid-presence is luscious on the vocals.  Lips sound wet on MJ2, whereas on Jot they sound dry.  Bells sound realistic and lingering on the MJ, somewhat receded on the Jot.  I don't have a Lyr3 (yet!) but you might be able to extrapolate. 
  Just judging as a total package MJ2/Gumby clearly trumps the Jumby on lifelike/realism, but guys and gals, I want you to know something.  These new mb dac/amp packages are awesome!  On the XC's, I'm having to look over my shoulder to double check if I am listening to the Gumby/MJ2 stack or the Jumby.  I'm generally not sure.  It is only when I move to the more revealing end of the headphone spectrum that we start to see where your money is going.  And again, only on certain genres.
  If I were starting from scratch today (and yes I've heard YGGY a bunch and it is awesome to behold), I'd probably just buy a Lyr 3 or Jot with the mb card and be done with it.  I believe for the vast majority of listeners the Schiit mad scientists have created two products that get the price/performance so right that it is hard to justify going further unless you have money to play (I have a little).  My advice: spend your extra money on different kinds of headphones.


----------



## Ho Kim

terminatetrails said:


> Replaced the Gen5 USB in my Gumby this morning, not sure I hear a difference, but boy that thing just works.  Sure wish I had something like that in the mb card for the Jot, now it has decided it doesn't like my Iphone or my Ipad!  Literally nada.  Works fine with Windows.  So if you are running PC, you're golden.
> Going at the listening tests more extensively today.  Random unscientific observations:  Everything I threw at the Utopia sounded like Utopia (sorry if I am a dope, but that's what I hear), which is good or bad depending on your preferences.  It always sounds good.  When I throw it on my DAP with a fiio A5, it still sounds nearly the same!
> LCD-XC had more distinctiveness between the Jot amp section and the MJ2 both being fed by the Gumby.  Still nothing to write home about, just sounds good no matter what!  Minimal distinction on various genres (Dead Can Dance, electronic, Iron and Wine, Pink Floyd). This is actually what I like in these cans- high reliability and versatility.  I'm not saying you don't hear any differences between upstream equipment (you do!), I just think it is more subtle on Utopia and XC- as always IMHO.
> Now, when it came to the T1.1 (balanced mod) we start to see some daylight.  Right now I am not certain how much has to do with Dacs: Gumby vs. Jot mb card or the MJ2 vs. Jot amp section.  What I did listen carefully to was the MJ2 vs. Jot both fed by the Gumby.  The T1's sound more natural, lifelike, on MJ2, the mid-presence is luscious on the vocals.  Lips sound wet on MJ2, whereas on Jot they sound dry.  Bells sound realistic and lingering on the MJ, somewhat receded on the Jot.  I don't have a Lyr3 (yet!) but you might be able to extrapolate.
> ...


Thank you for the thorough reply terminatetrails! I believe you are right that most people starting from scratch would select between the lyr 3 and the jotunheim with Multibit card... because that is me at the moment! For now the balanced output on the jotunheim appeals to me but I have more research to do. Again thank you!!


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## Elluzion (Apr 17, 2018)

Have other people have issues with the GEN 5 USB and their iphone / ipad, i was considering upgrading to GEN 5 for a bitfrost to use with my JOT but if it stops working with iPhone or iPad that will not work for me. Anyone know? I am running iOS 9+

EDIT: i contacted schiit and they said that it will work with iPhone/iPad and there should be no issues


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## TheViolentVicar (Apr 17, 2018)

I just picked up my dream cans:  Audeze LCD-4, for a killer deal.  A local web dealer had some they brought in for a review.  I've bought a few (expensive) things from them and they let these go cheap, although that's relative.  Less than a month old.

I'm at work now; I can't wait to get home and see if Jotty with the MB DAC drives them properly.  If not, back to the Phonitor X, I guess.  The LCD-2s might soon be on the auction block.

I'll share my impressions.  From the specs, the Jot is just on the borderline of driving them adequately.  The test will be in the listening; I will report back.


----------



## terminatetrails

Elluzion said:


> Have other people have issues with the GEN 5 USB and their iphone / ipad, i was considering upgrading to GEN 5 for a bitfrost to use with my JOT but if it stops working with iPhone or iPad that will not work for me. Anyone know? I am running iOS 9+
> 
> EDIT: i contacted schiit and they said that it will work with iPhone/iPad and there should be no issues


In the above post I was actually praising the Gen5 for the fact that it WORKS and is so versatile in contrast to my experience with the normal usb that is built into the new mb universal cards.  I'm still playing with them to see if it is a cable/connector problem, but still no luck with ipad/iphone.


----------



## Elluzion

terminatetrails said:


> In the above post I was actually praising the Gen5 for the fact that it WORKS and is so versatile in contrast to my experience with the normal usb that is built into the new mb universal cards.  I'm still playing with them to see if it is a cable/connector problem, but still no luck with ipad/iphone.



Got it! I read it wrong, thank you for clarifying!!


----------



## K.J.

Received my Multibit DAC, got it installed and working late last night. Thanks again @TheViolentVicar for the visuals. It was very straightforward, the only tricky part was getting the DAC's pins aligned and in place carefully. Steady hand, patience, and a precision tool are a must.

Sound. The only piece of gear I've used since Aug of 17 has been the Jot w/ the OG 4490 card. Its sound is literally imprinted onto my mind, so the comparison was very easy for me to make. For those on the fence, the good news is that this is not a minor or subtle upgrade.The Multi presents a much more open sound space; better separation, and superior imaging. The transparency and layering are on another level. For anyone like me, who is only using the Jot + 4490, this is a significant step up.

I am very impressed day one.


----------



## terminatetrails

I agree, I’m about a week in now and burned in.  The upgrade from the OG 4490 to the mb is well worth the money.  The Jot with mb seriously reminds me of my Gumby, no joke!  Crazy smooth, buttery- no more of the treble harshness of the early hours.
Another small issue- from time to time one channel will ring and I will have to cycle the power and it goes away.


----------



## Tuneslover

That ringing sound happens occasionally with my 2 Mimby's too and yup switching the power toggle off for a few seconds and then switching back on is the trick to fixing that.


----------



## deFiniLoGy

Anyone tried to connect an headphone output to the XLR input on the Jotty?

I'm trying to expand my desktop setup and the RCA input is already connected to my Mimby, but I'd like to add the GSX 1000 to the Jotty as well for competitive gaming.

So my question is, is it possible to use a 3.5mm to dual XLR cable to connect the headphone out from the GSX1000 to Jotty?


----------



## jimmers

deFiniLoGy said:


> Anyone tried to connect an headphone output to the XLR input on the Jotty?
> 
> I'm trying to expand my desktop setup and the RCA input is already connected to my Mimby, but I'd like to add the GSX 1000 to the Jotty as well for competitive gaming.
> 
> So my question is, is it possible to use a 3.5mm to dual XLR cable to connect the headphone out from the GSX1000 to Jotty?


Without an OK from Schiit I wouldn't risk it. 
I would use Bimby and GSX 1000 into a switch like Schiit Sys then into the RCA input, or use an active or transformer splitter to get the balanced signals for the XLR inputs


----------



## Iron-Buddha

Tuneslover said:


> That ringing sound happens occasionally with my 2 Mimby's too and yup switching the power toggle off for a few seconds and then switching back on is the trick to fixing that.



God damn.  I didn't know about this and was playing PUBG and the explosions were ringing like mad and I wrote the developer an angry e-mail saying they are going to deafen their players....turned out it was the Jot.  It's not the biggest annoyance in the world but does anyone know why this happens and if there is a permanent fix?


----------



## XERO1

Tuneslover said:


> That ringing sound happens occasionally with my 2 Mimby's too and yup switching the power toggle off for a few seconds and then switching back on is the trick to fixing that.





Iron-Buddha said:


> God damn.  I didn't know about this and was playing PUBG and the explosions were ringing like mad and I wrote the developer an angry e-mail saying they are going to deafen their players....turned out it was the Jot.  It's not the biggest annoyance in the world but does anyone know why this happens and if there is a permanent fix?


I have a Mimby and I have yet to hear this.  Could you please explain in a little more detail what it sounds like and how often it happens.
Thanks.


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## Tuneslover (Apr 24, 2018)

XERO1 said:


> I have a Mimby and I have yet to hear this.  Could you please explain in a little more detail what it sounds like and how often it happens.
> Thanks.



It's a high pitched ringing sound that blends in with the sound (music, dialogue or whatever you're amplifying).  It's kind of buried into the background of the sound but you know something is off.  Once you've noticed it, it becomes very obvious and annoying.  Simply toggle off your Mimby or Bimby (which I own) and after 15-30 seconds toggle it back on and allow it to recycle.  Presto, the ringing is gone.  It's a very random thing and happens 5-6 times per year (rough estimate).  I don't have any explanation for this "issue" but it's a simple fix, like re-booting your computer or phone.

It is recommended that DACs be left on all the time, especially the Multibit DACs because internal temperature is critical in presenting a proper sound.  With respect to the Lyr 3 owners with the MB option does that mean you have to leave your unit on all the time (and shorten the life your tube)?  Maybe because the Lyr 3 and Jotunheim only offers MB to it's USB input, perhaps the USB is always powered?  Not sure.


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## XERO1 (Apr 24, 2018)

Tuneslover said:


> It's a high pitched ringing sound that blends in with the sound (music, dialogue or whatever you're amplifying).  It's kind of buried into the background of the sound but you know something is off.  Once you've noticed it, it becomes very obvious and annoying.  Simply toggle off your Mimby or Bimby (which I own) and after 15-30 seconds toggle it back on and allow it to recycle.  Presto, the ringing is gone.  It's a very random thing and happens 5-6 times per year (rough estimate).  I don't have any explanation for this "issue" but it's a simple fix, like re-booting your computer or phone.
> 
> It is recommended that DACs be left on all the time, especially the Multibit DACs because internal temperature is critical in presenting a proper sound.  With respect to the Lyr 3 owners with the MB option does that mean you have to leave your unit all the time (and shorten the life your tube)?  Maybe because the Lyr 3 and Jotunheim only offers MB to it's USB input, perhaps the USB is always powered?  Not sure.


Interesting.  It's probably some sort of glitch in the firmware that operates the Analog Devices 16-bit DAC chips.  I wonder if this same issue happens with the other multibit Schiit DACs.


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## terminatetrails

XERO1 said:


> Interesting.  It's probably some sort of glitch in the firmware that operates the Analog Devices 16-bit DAC chips.  I wonder if this same issue happens with the other multibit Schiit DACs.


I'm pretty sure I just experienced this same ringing glitch for the first time with my Gumby.  Simple fix- off and then on.  Just note that this is the first time this has ever happened with my Gumby, and it may have just been my imagination?


----------



## Iron-Buddha

The ringing was less noticeable on music, did notice it on synths more.   Video game explosions sounded like the added humming you hear sometimes in movies when they want to make an explosion disorientating....think of tinnitus mixed with a metal meditation bowl.


----------



## Renato Fury

Well from what I read the dac multibit is not balanced, so I ask you, what's the disadvantage this has against a fully balanced amplifier?


----------



## terminatetrails

Renato Fury said:


> Well from what I read the dac multibit is not balanced, so I ask you, what's the disadvantage this has against a fully balanced amplifier?


Mike Moffat has explained already that the mb card is what he calls CAB (cheap assed balanced) meaning that it is not hardware balanced like Gumby/Yggy, but still functionally balanced by dividing the single Dac card into left and right channels.  Besides this, utilizing the XLR section of the Jot has a huge power advantage.


----------



## Tuneslover

Iron-Buddha said:


> The ringing was less noticeable on music, did notice it on synths more.   Video game explosions sounded like the added humming you hear sometimes in movies when they want to make an explosion disorientating....think of tinnitus mixed with a metal meditation bowl.



A very good description of the ringing problem.


----------



## smodtactical

Some questions if I may, apologies if they have been answered.

How does Jotunheim stack up against TOTL amps? I know some like it as much as Ragnarok, but what about against SS amps like V281, Simaudio moon neo 430HA, headamp GS-X mk2 ?

How does the combo with the multibit dac compare to TOTL AMPS and DACs like benchmark dac and yggdrasil?

Also how is it compared to Lyr 3 with regular or SS lisst tubes.

I'm thinking of upgrading my burson conductor SL9018, using HD800S, HD650 and DT990 pro. I think this could be a more affordable but still solid upgrade but if yggdrasil and totl amps are much better I'd probably save up more and go straight to them.

Thanks!


----------



## kevlar51 (Apr 29, 2018)

Tuneslover said:


> I'd be interested in hearing your comparison between the Jot and Magni3.



It’s been a bit, but I wanted to follow up with my impressions on the Jot vs. Magni 3 with various configurations. I’m using HD650s for all configurations (compared using the 3.5 jack). I got a used Jot with the phono module (the module is replacing a Art DJ Pre II). I can’t really A/B test the phono pre-amps; it’s impractical given the ground wire. And the only way to compare the Magni with the Jot via vinyl at this point was to use the Jot as a pre-amp to the Magni, which I feel isn’t very fair to either, so I’ll just say that I’m happy with listening to my vinyl with the Jot—a bit happier than with my previous setup—and leave it at that.

On the digital side, I was using the Fulla 2’s DAC with my Magni, and A/B tested the Fulla/Magni with the Fulla/Jot. There was a difference, but it was incredibly subtle. The Magni was a bit wetter and the Jot leaned more toward neutral.  That’s just me trying to peg a difference though—had I left it at that I don’t think it would have been worth the upgrade.

Then I replaced the Fulla with a Modi Multibit. This made all the difference. The Mimby/Magni stack sounds great, and is still a bit wetter than the Jot (not a judgement, just an observation). Had I never heard the Mimby/Jot, I’d be very happy with it. But I _did_ hear the Mimby/Jot, and I did not find the difference subtle—the Mimby/Jot had a noticeably wider soundstage with clearer separation than the Mimby/Magni. As before, the Mimby/Jot leaned more toward neutral.

I picked up some balanced cables for my Senns as well. The more power is nice, but not really necessary for me. I didn’t notice a change in SQ, just a change in the volume knob setting for me. I don’t blare my music so I don’t think the cable was a necessary expense. But I suppose you never know until you try.

TL;DR:  Mimby/Jot > Mimby/Magni3 > Fulla2/Jot ≥ Fulla2/Magni3


----------



## Wallboy

What's with the For Sale section full of people selling these units lately? I'm guessing everyone is jumping on the Lyr 3 train?


----------



## terminatetrails

Wallboy said:


> What's with the For Sale section full of people selling these units lately? I'm guessing everyone is jumping on the Lyr 3 train?


Listen, the Jot is an excellent amp/dac- I loved it enough to buy 2.  I just upgraded one to mb and use it daily.  However, variety is the spice of life (except when it comes to marriage you know!).  The other thing is that Schiit is always developing/improving, I can't blame anyone for wanting to try their latest.  Just means new people can get into the game at a lower entry fee.


----------



## Tuneslover

Wallboy said:


> What's with the For Sale section full of people selling these units lately? I'm guessing everyone is jumping on the Lyr 3 train?



Mine is NOT for sale and I don't see it going up for sale either (I use my Jot in balanced mode).  Besides, I have a Project Ember in another headphone setup that satisfies my tube cravings.


----------



## NEXTLEVEL5

Is anyone using the Jot with Focal Utopias? If so, how are you liking the combo? Thanks


----------



## terminatetrails

Yes, I've done this extensively, but I generally reserve the Utopias for my top system Gumby/MJ2.  My advice is that if you can easily stretch to afford a higher end amp/dac combo for Utopia, go for it (I mean you already invested $3-4k in the Utopia!).  However, if you only have the funds for either a TOTL hp (like Utopia) OR a TOTL amp/dac stack, put most of your money into the hp.  The Utopia sounds fantastic on everything I plug it into, even my portable setup- as long as you feed it enough power.  The Jot (esp mb) is a wonderfully capable amp/dac, I can't imagine being disappointed with it.  The Utopia sings on the Jot (as usual, since it always does).  There are just ways to eek out a bit more detail/performance if you are willing to lay out the funds.


----------



## Ho Kim

Hello,

Can anyone who has experience with Jot MB and LCD X provide reference? This might be a really bad question but how do you think the Ifi Micro IDSD Black Label measures against the Jot balanced?


----------



## MikeW (May 5, 2018)

K.J. said:


> Received my Multibit DAC, got it installed and working late last night. Thanks again @TheViolentVicar for the visuals. It was very straightforward, the only tricky part was getting the DAC's pins aligned and in place carefully. Steady hand, patience, and a precision tool are a must.
> 
> Sound. The only piece of gear I've used since Aug of 17 has been the Jot w/ the OG 4490 card. Its sound is literally imprinted onto my mind, so the comparison was very easy for me to make. For those on the fence, the good news is that this is not a minor or subtle upgrade.The Multi presents a much more open sound space; better separation, and superior imaging. The transparency and layering are on another level. For anyone like me, who is only using the Jot + 4490, this is a significant step up.
> 
> I am very impressed day one.



I agree with this very much, same situation for me. I've also encountered the ringing issue a few times, especially in the beginning when I was tinkering with unplugging and replugging the USB cable and the dac was initially burning in. I've also noted that the DAC improves with about 300 hours of burn in. The biggest improvement's happening in the first ~150 hours. Finally, I'd like to note a significant improvement in sound quality (like all other Schiit USB GEN2 products) when using a USB reclocking device (W4S Recovery /w ebay r-core lps in my case). This was also true with the Original 4490 card. Im considering upgrading to an Uptone ISO REGEN.


----------



## GrussGott (May 5, 2018)

smodtactical said:


> How does the combo with the multibit dac compare to TOTL AMPS and DACs like benchmark dac and yggdrasil?


In my 2 years of experience the Jot is firmly mid-fi - an excellent solid-state amp and maybe in general not as good as the Lyr 3.

I say "in general" because it's good enough to either be end-game or the launching point to optimize your whole chain based on your preferences and headphones.  Said differently, it's the point where there isn't necessarily "better", rather "better for you".  So, for example, if you want to optimize for the ZMF Atticus house sound it's probably not the right amp for that headphone, but that doesn't make it bad, just different.

As for DACs, it's much the same.  The eitr+mimby is probably getting close to a gen 5 gumby, with the gumby being fairly clearly "better", but also being about 90% of the Yggy.  Is that 10% worth double the cost?  Your call.  Some people prefer the Gumby to the Yggy so, again, it depends on your chain and that's just with Schiit gear.  For example, some people would put the Soekris 1321 between the gumby and yggy, but depends on if you like that sound vs the gumby (and all of the other aspects of getting a euro dac).

So back to in general, a gen5 Gumby > Lyr 3 is going to be fairly excellent assuming you like how it pairs with your headphones.  e.g., I wouldn't say the Jot is perfect match for the HD800s or the DT990 and would prefer the Lyr 3, but with the 650 it's a great match for me. (tidal hf>eitr>mimby>jot).

Personally I'm planning on adding an Atticus so I might also get both a lyr 3 and a valhalla 2 versus, say, a Woo wa6, as this will give me a few amps to match to different headphones and then next year I"ll probably get a gumby.  It also allows for experimenting with some trade-offs like head stage, tone, detail, etc

Just depends on what you think the weakest link is and how much flexibility you want - personally I want some flexibility to match to different headphones and sound profile whims.


----------



## Bazirker

GrussGott said:


> In my 2 years of experience the Jot is firmly mid-fi - an excellent solid-state amp and maybe in general not as good as the Lyr 3.
> 
> I say "in general" because it's good enough to either be end-game or the launching point to optimize your whole chain based on your preferences and headphones.  Said differently, it's the point where there isn't necessarily "better", rather "better for you".  So, for example, if you want to optimize for the ZMF Atticus house sound it's probably not the right amp for that headphone, but that doesn't make it bad, just different.
> 
> ...



Great post.  Really nails down the difference in transitioning from mid- to hi-fi, and why sometimes you find yourself preferring a $500 rig to a $3000 rig you heard at a meet once.  I had this concept lined up in my head, but this clearly articulates it into words with examples.  Well done.


----------



## alota

i had jot in the past with akm balanced module. for me the dac sounded bad but the amplifier really good. i was hoping for a multibit module. now i saw in the site the new module.
this module works with android device? i have a smartphone with usb audio player pro.
this module is balanced?that is, uses the balanced amplifier?
i´m really tempted to buy it again
thank you


----------



## terminatetrails (May 22, 2018)

alota said:


> i had jot in the past with akm balanced module. for me the dac sounded bad but the amplifier really good. i was hoping for a multibit module. now i saw in the site the new module.
> this module works with android device? i have a smartphone with usb audio player pro.
> this module is balanced?that is, uses the balanced amplifier?
> i´m really tempted to buy it again
> thank you


The new mb dac is a significant step up from the OG delta sigma that came in the Jot originally.  It is balanced (what Mike M. calls "cheap ass balanced") meaning that it uses the balanced output from a split signal from the dac, but is not hardware balanced (it only has one dac chip- vs. Gumby/YGGY which have 2 per channel).  If you want balanced and mb this is the best way to get there.  I recently upgraded to FLAC streams and the new chip brings out detail that the old chip did not IMHO.  Admittedly and unashamedly a Schiit fanboy!
Unfortunately I cannot comment on whether it works with your particular phone- I have found the USB on the mb card to be VERY picky with sources.  I moved to using it exclusively with my desktop.


----------



## g00se

Appreciate this mega-thread full of info.  I finally made a purchase of a jotunheim and modi2 multibit (mimby) based on the comments of this being an improvement over the built-in DAC.  Also this gives me the chance to play with different amps going forward (if I so desire).

*Now to the question - what cans to pair with it?*

Currently starting from Audio Technica ATH-50S.  I am certainly going to keep these to simply appreciate what kind of improvements the DAC and then the DAC/AMP make on this entry level cans.

Listen to a bit of everything from EDM, jazz, classical, folk, reggae, etc.  About the only thing I don't listen to much is country and heavy metal.

Appreciate the guidance and better yet where to try and demo before I buy (or must you just buy used and flip them here)?


----------



## DavidA

g00se said:


> Appreciate this mega-thread full of info.  I finally made a purchase of a jotunheim and modi2 multibit (mimby) based on the comments of this being an improvement over the built-in DAC.  Also this gives me the chance to play with different amps going forward (if I so desire).
> 
> *Now to the question - what cans to pair with it?*
> 
> ...


My suggestions:
HD6XX - one of the better pairing with the Jot IMO
LCD-2.2 or LCD-2C - pre-fazor / non-fazor models seem to go better with the Jot IMO


----------



## ToTo Man

I already posted this on the Mjolnir2 thread, but since it also relates to Jot I feel I should probably re-post here in case some of you don't follow the Mj2 thread:

With 50hrs burn-in now on the stock tubes I decided to perform another comparison between Mj2 and Jot, using both my HD800S and also the ADX5000 which I currently have on home demo (I really like the 5000, it sounds like a cross between the HD800S and Utopia!). Both headphones are being driven in balanced mode.

I wish it weren't so, but I prefer Jot's presentation. It's very clean, very resolving, has a very low noise floor, delivers grippy bass with extension and slam, and projects vocals with remarkable presence/clarity.

Mj2 with stock tubes by comparison is less resolving, it presents a larger but less focused and more diffuse soundstage, has less resolve across the board, delivers a weaker/mushier low end, and it pulls vocals into the distance.

I was very much hoping to prefer Mj2 because it looks so much better in my system and I've always been drawn to the romantic glow of tubes, but sadly I don't, at least with the stock tubes. Trouble is I don't think I'm cut out to embark on an epic tube rolling journey, as it will be very difficult with my cerebral palsy to swap tubes in and out, so I'm hoping can make the right choice first time. 

I'd be really grateful for advice on a tube recommendation that gets me as close as possible to matching Jot's transparency/resolve and tonal balance, if such a tube exists, or do I have unrealistic expectations about making Mj2 sound as revealing as Jot?  I ask this because I have read comparisons of Mj2 + LISST vs Jot and the general consensus is that Jot is more revealing.


----------



## terminatetrails

I could see your experience with the stock tubes being underwhelming.  However with even a cheap pair of ebay Aperex Bugle Boys ($13), I experienced the opposite to your comparisons with the MJ2 vs. Jot.  I don't think the tube rolling has to be "epic".  You should be able to find a good match for your tastes first time if you check the threads.  I have only purchased one pair and am done.  Friend- I do not mean to underestimate the difficulty of installing the tubes given your physical limitations.  Here's where it helps to have other audio friends close by!!
Also, it could be possible that the particular cans you enjoy are less of a match with MJ2- I've never tried the HD 800 (s), nor the 5000.  (I am aware of at least one well known head-fier who loves his 800's on the MJ2).  But I can tell you that the T1's and Utopia sound better IMHO on the MJ2 than the Jot (esp the T1).  All of the resolving, sound stage, clarity, etc which you might attribute to the Jot over the MJ2, I would reverse and give the edge to MJ2.


----------



## O.C. Audiophile (Jun 1, 2018)

Bugle Boys are my favorite with my Woo WA3.  Still, my favorite amp with the HD800S' is the Jot (MB DAC Module).


----------



## Th3Drizzl3 (Jun 1, 2018)

Lol wow check this out : 25 jotunheim pcb's https://www.ebay.com/itm/LOT-OF-25-...JZ4O~L:sc:USPSPriorityFlatRateBox!34275!US!-1 so it seems epec is who makes them lol. Someone want to make their own? lol


----------



## jimmers (Jun 1, 2018)

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> Lol wow check this out : 25 jotunheim pcb's https://www.ebay.com/itm/LOT-OF-25-...JZ4O~L:sc:USPSPriorityFlatRateBox!34275!US!-1 so it seems epec is who makes them lol. Someone want to make their own? lol


A lot cheaper than buying just one Neurochrome hp-1 pcb, tempted but don't really need 25 of them 

Printer control board - LOL


----------



## sup27606 (Jun 1, 2018)

At least one of you have to be joking (I hope so)..

The sound would be so good, it will be _imprinted_ in your head. LOL!


----------



## Th3Drizzl3 (Jun 1, 2018)

im tempted also honestly hmmm, im now wondering what all the parts would cost


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

sup27606 said:


> At least one of you have to be joking (I hope so)..


those are actual jot boards v1.01


----------



## sup27606

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> those are actual jot boards v1.01



Good. I am already assembling my cardboard boxes to put those PCBs in. I will sell them $25 a piece, fully assembled.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

Crap ill take 6 of them,


----------



## Alcophone

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> Lol wow check this out : 25 jotunheim pcb's https://www.ebay.com/itm/LOT-OF-25-...JZ4O~L:sc:USPSPriorityFlatRateBox!34275!US!-1 so it seems epec is who makes them lol. Someone want to make their own? lol


First coasters, now cutting boards... looking forward to my Ragnarok butcher block!


----------



## the finisher

Ho Kim said:


> Hello,
> 
> Can anyone who has experience with Jot MB and LCD X provide reference? This might be a really bad question but how do you think the Ifi Micro IDSD Black Label measures against the Jot balanced?



I have Win 10, coax to bcn >Yggy v2 > Jot > LCD X's. all balanced silver hybrid cables, and the Jot punches way above what it costs.
Hell the cables I have connected to it cost 5 times $400. Do I feel a burning desire to replace it, hell no.

It's a great SS amp/preamp for twice the price IMO. I love my new Yggy but the Jot is the most impressive "for the money" of all my recent purchases.
The Pro iCan is definitely better but at $1800 I have to wait for a bit, I'm OK with that.


----------



## Alcophone

the finisher said:


> I have Win 10, coax to bcn >Yggy v2 > Jot > LCD X's. all balanced silver hybrid cables, and the Jot punches way above what it costs.
> Hell the cables I have connected to it cost 5 times $400. Do I feel a burning desire to replace it, hell no.
> 
> It's a great SS amp/preamp for twice the price IMO. I love my new Yggy but the Jot is the most impressive "for the money" of all my recent purchases.
> The Pro iCan is definitely better but at $1800 I have to wait for a bit, I'm OK with that.


I switched to the Gustard H20 ($799 on Massdrop) with Sparkos SS3602 opamps (2x $70 for new customers). No desire to go back. Amazing sound stage (flat with Jot), even meatier low end, absurd amounts of power, two balanced inputs, smoother volume knob. Love it.


----------



## the finisher (Jun 6, 2018)

I'll have to check it out.

Nope, no single ended outs for my subs, that's a deal breaker.

Man I wish Freya had 2 balanced outs.


----------



## the finisher

Amazing but the only good solution to connecting my Jot and monitors/subs to Freya is this $400 box from Goldpiont and another set of xlr's. 

http://www.goldpt.com/sw2x.html


A used Pro iCan would be cheaper.


----------



## abirdie4me

I have the Jot with OG DAC, and I'm using it as a preamp to a set of powered desktop speakers as well as headphones. It works great and is a huge improvement for the active speakers, but it sends the output to both the speakers and headphones at the same time. I have to unplug the headphones when listening to speakers, or turn off the speakers when listening to headphones. Not a deal breaker, but a bit inconvenient. Is there a way to have the output only go to one or the other? Would a Saga help with this, or is that for input switching only?


----------



## Tuneslover

I have my powered monitors plugged into a separate power bar.  I simply turn on the power bar when I want to listen to the speakers.


----------



## the finisher

All of Schiit's products have all the outputs active always, as far as I know.
This is much better than the alternative for sure.


----------



## RickB

the finisher said:


> All of Schiit's products have all the outputs active always, as far as I know.
> This is much better than the alternative for sure.



Actually, on their non-balanced amps, plugging in headphones cuts out the preamp outs.


----------



## the finisher (Jun 10, 2018)

Oh ya, but not the Jot or Freya, limited experience.


----------



## abirdie4me

*DAC/AMP Deafness?
*
I've spent the last several hours trying to discern differences in DACs. I have the following setup:

Tidal Masters through Roon (Roon performs first unfold, no second unfold occurring due to hardware limitations)
HD800S and Focal Elear balanced into:
Jot w/ 4490 balanced DAC
Chord Mojo line out into Jot (using Mojo as DAC only)
Rega DAC into Jot (dual Wolfson WM8742 chips; 6 years old or so now)
Chord Mojo as both amp and DAC

I can't hear much difference, if any at all, between any of these setups. This leads me to believe that *a)* I have very limited hearing capabilities, *b) *DACs don't make that much difference, or *c)* both. For the DAC comparisons running through the Jot it is very easy to A/B test since I have volume set to be controlled by device in Roon for all the DACs, and have the zones grouped. Then I just flip the input switch on the Jot and the volume is level between the DACs. So my questions are:

Are these results more likely to be caused by my (admittedly) poor hearing, or coincidence that the tested DACs have similar characteristics?
Would a higher quality DAC (possibly multi-bit) provide more obvious difference in sound quality?
Am I being limited by amp here? Switching between the Jot and Mojo as quickly as possible didn't reveal any real differences, but many posts here at HF make it appear that I should hear differences between them.
What would it take for me to hear substantial differences in SQ, other than throwing a bunch of cash at it?
I'm 50, and according to those YouTube hearing tests (for whatever they are worth) I can't hear anything over 12,000hz. Also, I CAN clearly hear big differences between the HD800S and the Elear.


----------



## DavidA

@abirdie4me, you are like 95% of my friends that can't hear the difference between my Bimby, Modi2uber, and UD-301 and while I can hear a difference its quite subtle and even when I tell my friends what to listen for its still 50/50 that they can hear a difference and this is true for even some of the kids of friends who still have great hearing.

Like you the difference between different headphones its really easy to hear and 99% of my friends can hear the differences between all of my headphones so if you can't hear any differences between DAC then I wouldn't worry about it and just move on to getting different headphones with difference sound signatures if you like variety or more music.  Note: the reason for the 1% who can't hear any difference between headphones is that the person uses hearing aids and it appears that they do some compensation in amplifying so almost all headphones will sound the same to him.


----------



## abirdie4me

DavidA said:


> @abirdie4me, you are like 95% of my friends that can't hear the difference between my Bimby, Modi2uber, and UD-301 and while I can hear a difference its quite subtle and even when I tell my friends what to listen for its still 50/50 that they can hear a difference and this is true for even some of the kids of friends who still have great hearing....



Well, misery loves company I guess! On the bright side, maybe I can save myself a bunch of money. I've been considering a new amp or dac, but would probably need to drop several thousand just to hear any difference. Even then, it may be placebo effect in my case.


----------



## DavidA

abirdie4me said:


> Well, misery loves company I guess! On the bright side, maybe I can save myself a bunch of money. I've been considering a new amp or dac, but would probably need to drop several thousand just to hear any difference. Even then, it may be placebo effect in my case.


I'd say consider yourself lucky and your wallet safe for a time.  If you really want to see if you can hear differences between DACs it might be easier to hear it on speaker systems from what I've experienced so far and while I don't own a HD800S I've found that the HD800 is a headphone that I've noticed differences easier because it really borderline harsh/sibilant with some gear while the HD800S is a little less picky with gear IMO.  I haven't heard the Elear yet but 2 friends that have it say its probably not my style so it hasn't been high on my list of things to try.
I think the Jot is a great amp but for the few times that I've borrowed it from a friend it has its limitations with what it will pair with since to me its a touch on the bright side and didn't make a good pairing with the HD800, HD700, T1gen1, HE560 and RS2e which are all a touch on the bright side to begin with but with the HD650 its a good pairing, almost as good as a BH Crack with well chosen tubes.


----------



## abirdie4me

DavidA said:


> I'd say consider yourself lucky and your wallet safe for a time.  If you really want to see if you can hear differences between DACs it might be easier to hear it on speaker systems from what I've experienced so far and while I don't own a HD800S I've found that the HD800 is a headphone that I've noticed differences easier because it really borderline harsh/sibilant with some gear while the HD800S is a little less picky with gear IMO.  I haven't heard the Elear yet but 2 friends that have it say its probably not my style so it hasn't been high on my list of things to try.
> I think the Jot is a great amp but for the few times that I've borrowed it from a friend it has its limitations with what it will pair with since to me its a touch on the bright side and didn't make a good pairing with the HD800, HD700, T1gen1, HE560 and RS2e which are all a touch on the bright side to begin with but with the HD650 its a good pairing, almost as good as a BH Crack with well chosen tubes.



I'm now leaning toward looking at amps other than the Jot for the HD800S vs. trying to find a DAC that makes a difference. Maybe I'll try tubes, I think I need something warmer sounding with the HD800S. I'm perfectly fine with the Elear and Jot combo for rock / video games.


----------



## DavidA

abirdie4me said:


> I'm now leaning toward looking at amps other than the Jot for the HD800S vs. trying to find a DAC that makes a difference. Maybe I'll try tubes, I think I need something warmer sounding with the HD800S. I'm perfectly fine with the Elear and Jot combo for rock / video games.


Tubes are always a plus to me, just looking at the glow makes almost anything warmer sounding .  Kidding aside I actually liked the HD800S with SS amps like G109, HA501, Polaris and Heron 5 quite a bit, granted these are all amp that I feel are a touch on the warm side of neutral.  While I love my HD800 with a BH Crack the HD800S is not as good a pairing with the BH Crack since its a bit too warm and smoothed over for me.  I hope you find your "magic amp" pairing with your HD800S that makes you get lost in the music and then realize that you have to get up for work in a few hours, unless you are retired and have all the time in the world to do "what ev" as my son keeps saying.
I do love tubes:


----------



## abirdie4me

"I do love tubes:"



Very nice setup! I also have the Fostex TH-x00, with Lawton mod, alpha pads, and the PeterEK detachable cable mod. Very fun sounding, but harsh treble that kills me on most tracks. Afraid they don't get much use these days.

If I'm every going to try tubes, it will have to be something that sounds great with the included tubes. I have no desire to get into tube rolling, too much effort and seems to be a lot of hit or miss on the tubes. Any suggestions on tube amp that would warm up the HD800S without requiring tube rolling?


----------



## rutter

kevlar51 said:


> It’s been a bit, but I wanted to follow up with my impressions on the Jot vs. Magni 3 with various configurations. I’m using HD650s for all configurations (compared using the 3.5 jack). I got a used Jot with the phono module (the module is replacing a Art DJ Pre II). I can’t really A/B test the phono pre-amps; it’s impractical given the ground wire. And the only way to compare the Magni with the Jot via vinyl at this point was to use the Jot as a pre-amp to the Magni, which I feel isn’t very fair to either, so I’ll just say that I’m happy with listening to my vinyl with the Jot—a bit happier than with my previous setup—and leave it at that.
> 
> On the digital side, I was using the Fulla 2’s DAC with my Magni, and A/B tested the Fulla/Magni with the Fulla/Jot. There was a difference, but it was incredibly subtle. The Magni was a bit wetter and the Jot leaned more toward neutral.  That’s just me trying to peg a difference though—had I left it at that I don’t think it would have been worth the upgrade.
> 
> ...



The issue here is that the Modi Multibit is not a balanced DAC. I'm actually strongly considering making the same upgrade, and I have a Loki eq to put in between as well. I actually wanted to ask whether you can even use balanced with an unbalanced DAC. I'm planning on trying an HD800S and want to use the balanced cable with the Jot connected to Modi Multibit and Loki with RCA cables. Is that a good idea?


----------



## jimmers

rutter said:


> The issue here is that the Modi Multibit is not a balanced DAC. I'm actually strongly considering making the same upgrade, and I have a Loki eq to put in between as well. I actually wanted to ask whether you can even use balanced with an unbalanced DAC. I'm planning on trying an HD800S and want to use the balanced cable with the Jot connected to Modi Multibit and Loki with RCA cables. Is that a good idea?


Will work fine, the Jot will output balanced from a single ended input (just about) as well as it will from a balanced input, I use Bimby input to Jot balanced out to HD650 works great.


----------



## rutter

I assume you've compared with unbalanced in the same set-up and heard a significant difference? What was that difference? By the way, Bimby is what again?


----------



## rutter

Schiit said:
			
		

> Inputs: Balanced XLR and Single-Ended RCA, selectable via front switch



So if you're plugging in a headphone balanced but using an unbalanced DAC do you still select unbalanced from the front switch? What happens if you select balanced xlr?


----------



## sup27606

rutter said:


> I assume you've compared with unbalanced in the same set-up and heard a significant difference? What was that difference? By the way, Bimby is what again?



Balanced has more pronounced bass, wider soundstage.


----------



## rutter

So what's up with all the people claiming balanced just provides more power? This community appears literally split down the middle on whether balanced improves sound quality. I find this exceedingly strange given it's one of the actual significant central questions. Cables and burn in to a much lesser extent are also strange.


----------



## sup27606

rutter said:


> So if you're plugging in a headphone balanced but using an unbalanced DAC do you still select unbalanced from the front switch? What happens if you select balanced xlr?



You select unbalanced (rca). The input selector refers to the input, not the headphone outputs. Both the unbalanced and balanced outputs are always on, no matter what input is selected.

If you select balanced xlr, no sound will be produced unless a balanced dac is connected to the xlr inputs in the back.


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## rutter (Jun 10, 2018)

Do you agree that the input difference - whether the DAC is balanced or not - is less significant than using a headphone with a balanced cable/using the balanced output? To put it better perhaps, if balanced DAC balanced cable yielded 100% sound quality, what is the percentage without the balanced DAC?


----------



## sup27606

rutter said:


> So what's up with all the people claiming balanced just provides more power? This community appears literally split down the middle on whether balanced improves sound quality. I find this exceedingly strange given it's one of the actual significant central questions. Cables and burn in to a much lesser extent are also strange.



More power can improve the sound depending on the headphone type. For the Sennheiser 650 in jot , it definitely has an effect when using balanced, opening up the soundstage. It depends on the amp architecture, whether balanced and SE will sound different or similar, but cannot comment beyond that.


----------



## sup27606

rutter said:


> Do you agree that the input difference - whether the DAC is balanced or not - is less significant than using a headphone with a balanced cable/using the balanced output? To put it better perhaps, if balanced DAC balanced cable yielded 100% sound quality, what is the percentage without the balanced DAC?



I would agree that way. The only balanced input I have tested is from a ponoplayer, and it’s worse than from Mimby (Modi Multibit) in about everything, details, soundstage, and Mimby is single ended. I haven’t tested any high quality desktop amp with balanced architecture like gungnir or yiggdrasil, so someone else has to comment on that.


----------



## rutter

Anyone here objective enough to put the Jot in proper context as an amp? For $400 it actually seems like very good value, let alone with a DAC module for say $500. Any skeletons in this closet? The only reason I came here is because someone claimed to have preferred the Jot to the Mjolnir2 or whatever it's called, and then I also read that it was released more recently.


----------



## jimmers

rutter said:


> I assume you've compared with unbalanced in the same set-up and heard a significant difference? What was that difference? By the way, Bimby is what again?


A Bimby is a Bifrost Multibit. 
I haven't compared single ended to balanced, I converted a short lead to balanced and have used it thus ever since - just lazy I guess - all my other headphones are single ended so I can plug one of them in at the same time as the HD650 in case I fancy a change for a while (I always go back to the HD650)


----------



## MWSVette (Jun 10, 2018)

abirdie4me said:


> "I do love tubes:"
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Me too, Gotta love tubes...




But I love my Jot too....


----------



## abirdie4me

MWSVette said:


> Me too, Gotta love tubes...
> 
> 
> 
> But I love my Jot too....



Damn, that is a lot of Schiit!


----------



## rutter (Jun 10, 2018)

jimmers said:


> A Bimby is a Bifrost Multibit.
> I haven't compared single ended to balanced, I converted a short lead to balanced and have used it thus ever since - just lazy I guess - all my other headphones are single ended so I can plug one of them in at the same time as the HD650 in case I fancy a change for a while (I always go back to the HD650)



So how do you even know that balanced makes a significant difference?

Let's say I get the balanced DAC module. That gets bypassed when I use the Jot with a Modi Multibit or another DAC, correct? Comments on the balanced DAC? Half the price of the Modi Multibit equivalent, what gives?


----------



## abirdie4me

rutter said:


> So how do you even know that balanced makes a significant difference?
> 
> Let's say I get the balanced DAC module. That gets bypassed when I use the Jot with a Modi Multibit or another DAC, correct? Comments on the balanced DAC? Half the price of the Modi Multibit equivalent, what gives?



I have balanced Jot 4490 DAC and I think it sounds good. However, it only has 1 USB input, so I can't use it with multiple sources or use the optical out from my pc. Can't comment on sound comparison with Mimby as I haven't heard it.


----------



## rutter

I think the sole USB connection is just Jot's design independent of which DAC you pick, looking at an image of its backside. I still don't understand the pricing and what that means for that module. It's $500 when selecting "Balanced DAC".

By the way, anyone aware of Audio Science Review? They take a big dump on a lot of this Schiit, quantitatively speaking.


----------



## kevlar51

rutter said:


> By the way, anyone aware of Audio Science Review? They take a big dump on a lot of this Schiit, quantitatively speaking.



They realized they get a lot more traffic with over-the-top negative reviews of schiit products, rather then drown it the slew of positive reviews.


----------



## rutter (Jun 10, 2018)

I don't think that's how "quantitatively" works. Words are far more amenable to getting traffic, and it's easier to get duped. Note how little of verifiable and even comparative substance most reviews have.

Is it true that soundstage is a weakness of the amplifier? How bad is it, and in comparison to what?


----------



## abirdie4me

rutter said:


> I think the sole USB connection is just Jot's design independent of which DAC you pick, looking at an image of its backside. I still don't understand the pricing and what that means for that module. It's $500 when selecting "Balanced DAC".



No DAC, Jot as Amp only - $400
Balanced DAC + Amp - $500
Multibit DAC + Amp - $600


----------



## rutter

I know that. Why is the balanced DAC cheaper than the multibit which is apparently the same as the Modi?


----------



## sup27606

rutter said:


> I know that. Why is the balanced DAC cheaper than the multibit which is apparently the same as the Modi?



Because balanced doesn’t necessarily equate better when it comes to DACs. The multibit DAC module (and Modi Multibit) is audibly better than the balanced DAC module in jot.


----------



## rkw

rutter said:


> I know that. Why is the balanced DAC cheaper than the multibit which is apparently the same as the Modi?


I think you missed that there are 3 models of Modi:
Modi 2: $99
Modi 2 Uber: $149
Modi Multibit:  $249


----------



## rutter

So you actually get better sound with an unbalanced input when running balanced to the headphone? Really?

I have the Modi Multibit already, in fact upgraded from the Modi 2 (can't say that I hear much of a difference, if any, by the way), so I know what the Modi options are.


----------



## rkw

rutter said:


> Why is the balanced DAC cheaper than the multibit which is apparently the same as the Modi?


The short answer is that the balanced DAC card is significantly cheaper to manufacture than the multibit card. In any case, the multibit card is not "the same" as Modi Multibit. The Modi Multibit has a separate power supply whereas the multibit card is powered by the USB (which is prone to electrical noise).



rutter said:


> So you actually get better sound with an unbalanced input when running balanced to the headphone? Really?


Yes, if the unbalanced input is higher quality than the balanced input. You seem to be focused on balanced being automatically better, which is not true.


----------



## rutter

Seems strange they wouldn't put in a balanced module up to snuff.


----------



## sixstringmonk

rutter said:


> Seems strange they wouldn't put in a balanced module up to snuff.


They claim the multibit is "cheap assed balanced" via an analogue stage. It's outlined with very few details here at about 8 mins 15 seconds 

https://www.facebook.com/Schiit/videos/1720440738014542/


----------



## rutter (Jun 10, 2018)

Holy crap... if I didn't want to use the Loki I think I'd just get a Questyle CMA400i. Do digital equalizers only apply eq to music played within the program or is there something I can set and then for instance listen to youtube or Spotify with eq applied?

lol it sounds like a movie company

Ok, I've seen the whole thing now, and I'm not sure what he's referring to there. Isn't he holding the multibit module? Does that mean the Modi Multibit is cheap-assed balanced similarly or not? The 4490 card is supposed to be balanced...?


----------



## the finisher

sixstringmonk said:


> They claim the multibit is "cheap assed balanced" via an analogue stage. It's outlined with very few details here at about 8 mins 15 seconds
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/Schiit/videos/1720440738014542/




LOL that's hellarious. MM is a actual comic, he could do stand-up.


----------



## rutter

Thoughts on the soundstage of the Jot as an amp?


----------



## Alcophone

rutter said:


> Thoughts on the soundstage of the Jot as an amp?


It made the HD800 shine when I auditioned them, the soundstage with them was to die for (similar with the HD800S). However, with my Ether C Flow the sound stage lacks depth, which I only noticed after I got the Gustard H20. I am floored by the sound stage now - and I used to call myself soundstage challenged. I didn't think this was possible with closed headphones (I notice the same effect on the Focal Listen and Audio Technica ATH-M50x). Not saying it's on the level of the HD800, but very enjoyable now. I'd love to listen to the HD800 again on both amps to see whether it makes an appreciable difference with them, too.


----------



## the finisher (Jun 10, 2018)

One thing about the Jot, I'd admit it was a little bright at first, I'd shut it down and turn it on when I got home.
But I heard to just leave it on from somewhere, and it works, When nice and warmed up the sound does too.



rutter said:


> Thoughts on the soundstage of the Jot as an amp?



Compared to my AK4490 dac in the Jot. Yggy is much more resolving, even on a less resolving HP like the HD 6xx.
The soundstage is holographic on my very large desk with the Focals compared to the D/S dac. I certainly am getting a love for headphone listening with the LCD Xs and this rig


Multibit FTW, you don't need a Yggy though, the others are great by most accounts


----------



## rutter

That's a little promising to hear. I'm planning to audition the HD800S and LCD-X in the coming weeks and wanted to at least try the 800S with the balanced cable. I do probably need an upgrade from the Magni 3 as well. Hoping to keep one of the two headphones and be content with the overall sound and set-up. Already have a Modi Multibit. Reluctant to go with the Questyle CMA400i as I can't be arsed with eq, hence relying on the Loki for compensation.


----------



## the finisher (Jun 10, 2018)

rutter said:


> That's a little promising to hear. I'm planning to audition the HD800S and LCD-X in the coming weeks and wanted to at least try the 800S with the balanced cable. I do probably need an upgrade from the Magni 3 as well. Hoping to keep one of the two headphones and be content with the overall sound and set-up. Already have a Modi Multibit. Reluctant to go with the Questyle CMA400i as I can't be arsed with eq, hence relying on the Loki for compensation.



I started at the top with Yggy as far as Schiit multi-bit, but have auditioned PS audio Stellar GCD, RME ADI-2 and a used Benchmark 2, and not impressed.

Yggy is world class, competes with $6k to 15k dac's easy.

The balance cable on the Xs is very nice. So, even with the X's being sensitive balanced on high gain rocks.
Waiting for the Solv X, It costs $75 more than the 6xx's


----------



## rutter

Unfortunately now they don't sell LCD-Xs with balanced cables.


----------



## the finisher (Jun 11, 2018)

If you buy the $1700 one you do get both.
But why? I got mine for $999 open box creators edition, then bought a sweet Norne Solvine balanced and a  LCD 4 carbon fiber headband for 100 less.


----------



## rutter

I'm getting it for $989 with the headband and new. Problem is the Norne cable would tack on an additional $400 and at the moment I don't know if this is the headphone I want.


----------



## Alcophone

the finisher said:


> I started at the top with Yggy as far as Schiit multi-bit, but have auditioned PS audio Stellar GCD, RME ADI-2 and a used Benchmark 2, and not impressed.
> 
> Yggy is world class, competes with $6k to 15k dac's easy.


Oh, that's interesting! The ADI-2 is Amir's recommendation under $1000, it seems (based on measurements, obviously). I suspect I'll feel similar about the Topping DX7s next week, but I'm trying to keep an open mind...

Okay, back on topic...


----------



## the finisher (Jun 10, 2018)

rutter said:


> I'm getting it for $989 with the headband and new. Problem is the Norne cable would tack on an additional $400 and at the moment I don't know if this is the headphone I want.



Ya, they are expensive but I notice much improvement from stock. He has a 30 day return policy.
I like silver so it costs. Some think I'm an idiot, I don't care.

What was the topic anyway? lol


----------



## the finisher

Alcophone said:


> Oh, that's interesting! The ADI-2 is Amir's recommendation under $1000, it seems (based on measurements, obviously). I suspect I'll feel similar about the Topping DX7s next week, but I'm trying to keep an open mind...
> 
> Okay, back on topic...



You should, but I'm all done with dac's till an upgrade for Yggy comes along. Simply to many other things to upgrade instead. It's end game for me.

Interested to read your impressions.


----------



## rutter (Jun 11, 2018)

So after doing a little bit of searching it seems like the internal DACs for some reason suck in comparison to the Modi Multibit, which I happen to have. Apparently even Schiit recommend not using them. :/ I just hope the Jot is a significant improvement to the Magni 3, and balanced pans out even with a Modi Multibit.


----------



## the finisher

They are pretty cheap and plentiful on the used market now with Lyr 3 just coming out. I need balanced for the preout to my monitors.
But I'd never go back to single ended HP's for home listening.


----------



## FLTWS

[QUOTE="the finisher, post: ...
But I'd never go back to single ended HP's for home listening.[/QUOTE]

Agreed, and I use 4 pin to SE adapters when forced to, (like to use my LYR-3).


----------



## Bullishbear

Hi, I am very interested in Jot with MB Dac. Is there is any major sound quality improvement compared to the old Jot dac which is AK chip, and how is Jot compared to Mojo or CMA400i is it on the same level regarding its dac+amp performance? because I've heard some people says Mojo is much better than Jot with AK DAC, (at least in my hometown where is Mojo is very hyped and nothing beat this thing in this price range).


----------



## abirdie4me

Bullishbear said:


> Hi, I am very interested in Jot with MB Dac. Is there is any major sound quality improvement compared to the old Jot dac which is AK chip, and how is Jot compared to Mojo or CMA400i is it on the same level regarding its dac+amp performance? because I've heard some people says Mojo is much better than Jot with AK DAC, (at least in my hometown where is Mojo is very hyped and nothing beat this thing in this price range).



I have Mojo and Jot + 4490 DAC...very little difference in my opinion, but I don't have great ears. The Mojo may be a touch warmer, but when I did extensive A/B testing recently I didn't notice enough difference to say one is better than the other. If I had to choose only one of them, it would definitely be the Jot as the Mojo is a pain to use in a desktop situation. I keep my Focal Elear on my Mojo / work laptop and have my HD800S on the main rig with the Jot (a little bright pairing). 

I have a Bimby on the way, I hoping that will tame the brightness of the HD800S a bit. I didn't want to go with MB upgrade for Jot because I may want to keep Bimby as DAC and upgrade to Ragnarok amp in the future. Also, if I don't hear much difference with the multi-bit, I can send the Bimby back within 15 days...can't really do that with the Jot MB upgrade.


----------



## alota

Bullishbear said:


> Hi, I am very interested in Jot with MB Dac. Is there is any major sound quality improvement compared to the old Jot dac which is AK chip, and how is Jot compared to Mojo or CMA400i is it on the same level regarding its dac+amp performance? because I've heard some people says Mojo is much better than Jot with AK DAC, (at least in my hometown where is Mojo is very hyped and nothing beat this thing in this price range).


I had jot with first version of akm dac and mojo. Mojo+jot wonderful jot with akm orrible but it is just my opinion. Now schiit made new version(active) of akm dac. Probably sounds better. I had several hardware with akm chip and i like the sound. Probably the first dac board was bad design


----------



## Bullishbear

abirdie4me said:


> I have Mojo and Jot + 4490 DAC...very little difference in my opinion, but I don't have great ears. The Mojo may be a touch warmer, but when I did extensive A/B testing recently I didn't notice enough difference to say one is better than the other. If I had to choose only one of them, it would definitely be the Jot as the Mojo is a pain to use in a desktop situation. I keep my Focal Elear on my Mojo / work laptop and have my HD800S on the main rig with the Jot (a little bright pairing).
> 
> I have a Bimby on the way, I hoping that will tame the brightness of the HD800S a bit. I didn't want to go with MB upgrade for Jot because I may want to keep Bimby as DAC and upgrade to Ragnarok amp in the future. Also, if I don't hear much difference with the multi-bit, I can send the Bimby back within 15 days...can't really do that with the Jot MB upgrade.





alota said:


> I had jot with first version of akm dac and mojo. Mojo+jot wonderful jot with akm orrible but it is just my opinion. Now schiit made new version(active) of akm dac. Probably sounds better. I had several hardware with akm chip and i like the sound. Probably the first dac board was bad design



Hi, thanks for the answer, Many said that Mojo dac is way better than the Jot AKM or MB. I think I will give Jot MB a shot for audition, as I will use it for desktop use so portability is not an issue. For now I am using Oppo ha2se for dac+amp if I switch to Jot MB will it give a audible improvement?


----------



## abirdie4me (Jun 11, 2018)

Bullishbear said:


> For now I am using Oppo ha2se for dac+amp if I switch to Jot MB will it give a audible improvement?



Ha! That was my first ever DAC, I pulled it out and dusted it off the other day to compare to Mojo. Honestly, it sounds really good and not a lot different from the Mojo. Considering it was $300, I should have just stuck with it instead of buying the Mojo. I do think Jot MB will be a noticeable improvement over the Oppo, which is why it sits in my drawer these days.


----------



## terminatetrails

abirdie4me said:


> Ha! That was my first ever DAC, I pulled it out and dusted it off the other day to compare to Mojo. Honestly, it sounds really good and not a lot different from the Mojo. Considering it was $300, I should have just stuck with it instead of buying the Mojo. I do think Jot MB will be a noticeable improvement over the Oppo, which is why it sits in my drawer these days.


We all need to keep in mind that these dac/amp comparisons are very hp dependent.  You can have amazing sources and not be able to tell much of a difference unless you have invested pretty heavily in hp's.  And again, I am very happy while listening to my portable rig with my LCD i4's, so much so, that I hardly miss my other hp's, dacs/amps when I am on the road.  It is only when I sit down and compare everything that I notice the subtle differences in sources.  My mantra- invest 1st in high quality hp's and then on upgrading sources.  FYI, I love my Jot with mb.  Blows away the OG 4490.


----------



## rkw

abirdie4me said:


> I have a Bimby on the way, I hoping that will tame the brightness of the HD800S a bit.


Lots of people consider Jot to be a bright amp. The brightness might be better tamed with a different amp, not another DAC.


----------



## abirdie4me

rkw said:


> Lots of people consider Jot to be a bright amp. The brightness might be better tamed with a different amp, not another DAC.



I agree, and a tube amp is probably somewhere in my future. For now, I have a Bimby on the way that I can also use as a good DAC for my powered Audioengine HD3. For good measure, I also ordered a Loki...between the Bimby and the Loki, the HD800S WILL become less bright, one way or another.


----------



## abirdie4me

terminatetrails said:


> We all need to keep in mind that these dac/amp comparisons are very hp dependent.  You can have amazing sources and not be able to tell much of a difference unless you have invested pretty heavily in hp's.  And again, I am very happy while listening to my portable rig with my LCD i4's, so much so, that I hardly miss my other hp's, dacs/amps when I am on the road.  It is only when I sit down and compare everything that I notice the subtle differences in sources.  My mantra- invest 1st in high quality hp's and then on upgrading sources.  FYI, I love my Jot with mb.  Blows away the OG 4490.



Totally agree that dac/amp combinations can provide wildly different results for different people, depending on the entire chain and the user's hearing capabilities and preferences. I started off with HD600 and quickly realized I needed an amp..hence the Oppo HA-2 SE purchase. Then I had the misfortune of coming across Head-Fi, and the disease set in. Wanted to see if Mojo was so much better than Oppo, according to many opinions on these forums I expected to hear 'sonic bliss'. When I didn't notice huge changes, I thought it must be the cans....on to HD650, TH-x00, Elear, LCD-3 (briefly), and now HD800S. Somewhere around the TH-x00, I thought I needed better dac/amp and found a good clearance deal on a Rega DAC..and then Schiit happened.

Of all these changes, the biggest jump in SQ came from getting that first Oppo HA-2 SE instead of listening straight out of my android phone. Everything since then has been subtle differences rather than improvements in sound. Lots of fun, and I am a much better listener than I was a couple of years ago. I love the hobby and hope that I will be able to afford a much nicer setup someday that will provide that elusive 'sonic bliss'.


----------



## Bullishbear

abirdie4me said:


> Ha! That was my first ever DAC, I pulled it out and dusted it off the other day to compare to Mojo. Honestly, it sounds really good and not a lot different from the Mojo. Considering it was $300, I should have just stuck with it instead of buying the Mojo. I do think Jot MB will be a noticeable improvement over the Oppo, which is why it sits in my drawer these days.



Thanks!!! I think Jot MB will be my endgame dac/amp for a while, have you heard the Questlye CMA400i?


----------



## the finisher

I really like the Jot in my studio setup, certainly punches above it's cost. 
Leaving it always on has smoothed it out on top.
Not feeling any urge to upgrade it.  Kind of unusual for me.


----------



## abirdie4me

Bullishbear said:


> Thanks!!! I think Jot MB will be my endgame dac/amp for a while, have you heard the Questlye CMA400i?



I haven't heard the 400i, but the 600i sounded really good on my Elears.


----------



## GoodRevrnd

Anyone know where I can get a 1/16" tamperproof allen wrench to open this thing?


----------



## terminatetrails (Jun 13, 2018)

GoodRevrnd said:


> Anyone know where I can get a 1/16" tamperproof allen wrench to open this thing?


No doubt, I had to break out a HUGE toolbox to find something that worked!
PS- good to know there are other goodrevrnds out there who like good audio!


----------



## O.C. Audiophile

GoodRevrnd said:


> Anyone know where I can get a 1/16" tamperproof allen wrench to open this thing?



I assume you're talking about a wrench to remove the set screw holding on the volume knob.  I didn't need any special tamper proof wrench when I installed my MB DAC Module.  Mine was just a standard allen wrench socket.  You can pick up a set of wrenches at a Lowe's, Home Depot, Menards, Ace, or whatever hardware store you have in your area.


----------



## hikaru12

Anyone have any impressions on the LCD 2 with the Jot? I’d be just using the amp. I always get balanced cables because I prefer them. I have a feeling that the Nordost 1/4 adapter is adding a little bit of glare but I’m used to harsher treble. Adds a good energy but can get a bit much at night when I’m trying to relax. Running straight balanced with some Earth cables would be ideal.


----------



## EtRec (Jun 17, 2018)

For anyone interested in a (none expert ears, but great music lover) comparison between the original and new AK4490 DAC Module for the Jot. I have been the happy owner of the Jot+ original AK4490 dac card for over a year. Not one of those who thought the DAC card was bad. I had, and returned the Multibit Bitfroast after 2 weeks. Yes it sounded better, but not $600 better, for my purse strings. Besides I don't like owning to many possessions. The new AK4490 card does seem to improve on the old one to my ears. I'm using the JOT with my beloved Audioquest Nightowl with balanced cable. A headphone that already has wonderful bass  and treble (some call them dark, I don't, just the Nightowl's smooth clear sound) just got better, less V shaped. The bass especially improved to my ears. probably would have gotten better separation (very good on the Nightowl's anyway) with the Multibit card. Here are my reasons for choosing the AK4490 card instead. 1. hardware balanced as opposed to cheap-ass balanced (Schitt's words}. 2. 24bit over 16bit multibit 3. the occasional ringing going on in mutibit . Please take all this with a grain of salt, since I have no intention of opening the Jot chassis again, just to try and compare cards. Enjoying the music and a cold beer, on a very hot day as I type. Cheers all.


----------



## psuKinger

Apologies in advance for what is likely a beginner question, but I just recently bought my first pair of "high impedence headphones" (Sennheiser HD 6xx) and now need to purchase my first "real" desktop DAC/AMP (my portable Fiio Q1 isn't going to cut it).  In the past, in other aspects of my tech/gadget life, I've made purchases in "multiple rounds" after discovering that I really enjoy/like something and didn't get *enough* the first time around (my first subwoofer, my first pair of tower speakers, my first 2 AVRs, my first two "big screen TVs", etc).  So while I don't need balanced inputs/outputs yet and think I would probably be just fine (for now) with a Modi2/Magni 3 "stack", I'm very tempted (leaning towards, in fact) to just pull the trigger and buy this Jotenheim with one of the two (probably the Balanced) DAC options...

That said, I wanted to better understand how the Pre-Outs work.  I know at the 3:00 minute mark of the video on the O.P., it says that this can act in the role of a dedicated USB DAC should I choose to task it to be "just a DAC".  That's great news.  I'm guessing it does this by passing the now-converted-to-Analog signal out these pre-outs?

I can envision a couple of different ways I may want to use this (in the future).  One of which being (and some of you out there might give me a stern lecture for this) I'd like the *option* to *only on occasion* use something like the Schiit Loki (hardware EQ).  Is there any reason why I couldn't:
1) come into the DAC from my source (laptop or phone) via USB
2) out of the Jotenheim via the SE outputs 
3) into the Loki's RCA inputs and out the Loki's RCA outputs
4) Back into the Jotenheim's "SE Input" for amplification to my headphones



I guess what the question boils down to is, if I have the Jotenheim's input switch set to the bottom (for SE Inputs), will the pre-outs still send a signal from the DAC to an external device?

Thanks in advance.


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## rutter

Two important pieces of information. One, I see it repeatedly claimed that the DAC modules that you can buy with the Jotunheim are not good. Despite what Schiit claim about figuring something out with an all in one unit that doesn't appear to be the case in practice based on feedback. Buy a Modi Multibit for $250 (as opposed to the $200 multibit module) and apparently you'll be better off. Two, and this I know from experience, do not buy the Schiit Loki. For half the price when factoring in paying shipping you can get Sonarworks' equalizer app. It absolutely crushes the Loki, embarrasses it. Mind you, it's not about you equalizing your headphone and gives you extremely limited options in that respect, even less than the Loki. What it does is it equalizes your headphone for you. Skepticism is fine, but I strongly recommend you try it. All you need to put in is an email address, there's no activation or anything. The value is enormous, made a much bigger positive difference for me than hundreds of dollars spent on upgrading DACs and amps.


----------



## psuKinger

rutter said:


> Two important pieces of information. One, I see it repeatedly claimed that the DAC modules that you can buy with the Jotunheim are not good. Despite what Schiit claim about figuring something out with an all in one unit that doesn't appear to be the case in practice based on feedback. Buy a Modi Multibit for $250 (as opposed to the $200 multibit module) and apparently you'll be better off. Two, and this I know from experience, do not buy the Schiit Loki. For half the price when factoring in paying shipping you can get Sonarworks' equalizer app. It absolutely crushes the Loki, embarrasses it. Mind you, it's not about you equalizing your headphone and gives you extremely limited options in that respect, even less than the Loki. What it does is it equalizes your headphone for you. Skepticism is fine, but I strongly recommend you try it. All you need to put in is an email address, there's no activation or anything. The value is enormous, made a much bigger positive difference for me than hundreds of dollars spent on upgrading DACs and amps.


 
Hi!  Thanks, I really appreciate your input.  I've got a decent background and some "nice-ish" gear when it comes to Speakers/Subs/AVR, and what I'd consider a nice "whole home audio" situation as a result, but as you can tell I'm a newbie when it comes to Headphone HiFi and I'm definitely looking for some help/guidance.

tl/dr: Can I use this Sonarworks EQ app on my mobile devices (Pixel 2 phone and/or Galaxy TabS tablet), while also using those mobile devices to select/play via USB music from my Plex server via the Plex app on them?  This EQ will work *with* plex as my frontend player-of-choice and can happen BEFORE the digital-to-analog conversion?

Likely unnecessary explanation/background:
Most of my source material is lossless CD rips (not HDTracks or DSD), and I'm playing them back via my Plex server (in large part because Plex supports chromecast, which means it works with my Whole Home Audio).  It also means I can access/play all my best source material from convenient mobile devices (phone and tablet) and not just from my Desktop server (located in the storage room/workout room, LITERALLY the "least nice" space to sit back and relax in in the house) or my laptop (a 17" beast that exists more for gaming/video watching then it does for portability).

We just recently did an addition to the house that includes a 14'x14' 4-season sunroom.  It's pretty much the only room in the house that doesn't have a TV in it or a sizeable pair or speakers (or both), and so it shall remain... I've got a google home tucked away behind the couch (in part for voice control of the recessed lighting) that I use for "low volume background music".  It is here, in this speakerless-sunroom, that I hope to have my DAC/AMP live and a pair of headphones handy to enjoy it with when the wife and kids aren't out there with me...


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## sixstringmonk

Just wanted to drop a note in this thread in case anyone is worried about latency with the Jotunheim multibit card when it comes to gaming. I've put it through some paces and I don't notice any perceptible lag. I made sure to check some audio & visual cues that are meant to be in sync and they were perfect to my eyes and ears. I also took a look at some audio/video sync tests on youtube and didn't see any issues.


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## rkw

rutter said:


> Two important pieces of information. One, I see it repeatedly claimed that the DAC modules that you can buy with the Jotunheim are not good. Despite what Schiit claim about figuring something out with an all in one unit that doesn't appear to be the case in practice based on feedback. Buy a Modi Multibit for $250 (as opposed to the $200 multibit module) and apparently you'll be better off. Two, and this I know from experience, do not buy the Schiit Loki. For half the price when factoring in paying shipping you can get Sonarworks' equalizer app. It absolutely crushes the Loki, embarrasses it. Mind you, it's not about you equalizing your headphone and gives you extremely limited options in that respect, even less than the Loki. What it does is it equalizes your headphone for you. Skepticism is fine, but I strongly recommend you try it. All you need to put in is an email address, there's no activation or anything. The value is enormous, made a much bigger positive difference for me than hundreds of dollars spent on upgrading DACs and amps.


Loki and Sonarworks are very different products and serve different purposes. Sonarworks' products are all about correction and calibration, and True-Fi is the minimal consumer version of their Reference 4 product. Loki is not at all about accurate sound. It is an old school equalizer to adjust sound to your personal taste, like the tone controls in a 1980's receiver.


----------



## rutter

You need to equalize first, which is what Sonarworks actually does, before deciding whether you need further changes, which Sonarworks can also apply on the low and high end. After equalizing an LCD-X with Sonarworks I found zero point to Loki and am promptly returning it. I'll try an HD800S with Sonarworks in some time too. Another issue with Loki is that it has just four knobs, but I don't know whether it's the only quality lower price option for hardware "equalization". I put equalization in quotation marks because my impression is equalization actually means flattening the frequency response, which is exactly what Sonarworks does and the Loki can't compete with. As for whether Sonarworks works with mobile devices, I've read that it does but you need to find out. Again, there's a painless free trial. Something else you should be aware of is that there is limitation with what formats Sonarworks works, so check their FAQ.

Also, the Reference 4 product adds very little to True-Fi unless you're dealing with speakers as well, but it's also only $10 more, although some of the speaker stuff may be significantly pricier than that.


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## Alcophone

psuKinger said:


> I guess what the question boils down to is, if I have the Jotenheim's input switch set to the bottom (for SE Inputs), will the pre-outs still send a signal from the DAC to an external device?


No. The pre outs provide an attenuated version of the input signal. The input switch selects that input signal. That means if you connect an external DAC to the single ended input, and select that input, the Jotunheim will volume control that signal and pass it on using its rear outputs.
So if you want to use Loki with a Jotunheim, you need an external source.


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## rutter

Any issue with background white noise with the Jotunheim? Just noticed that it is present on mine. I think it's just or somewhat above max listening volume but somehow I noticed it and if you turn the knob it becomes quite loud. Is it about the 20-ohm LCD-X I'm currently using, is this something there with any headphone, or? Would using balanced lower the threshold?


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## zyglrox17

rutter said:


> Any issue with background white noise with the Jotunheim? Just noticed that it is present on mine. I think it's just or somewhat above max listening volume but somehow I noticed it and if you turn the knob it becomes quite loud. Is it about the 20-ohm LCD-X I'm currently using, is this something there with any headphone, or? Would using balanced lower the threshold?



I have zero noise on max volume w/ balanced cable and low gain. Also tested it on high gain just now and there's no white noise. I have the 2nd gen balanced DAC module and LCD-X.


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## dr cornelius

[QUOTE="psuKinger, post: 14312754, member: 497517”]... So while I don't need balanced inputs/outputs yet and think I would probably be just fine (for now) with a Modi2/Magni 3 "stack", I'm very tempted (leaning towards, in fact) to just pull the trigger and buy this Jotenheim with one of the two (probably the Balanced) DAC options....[/QUOTE]

If you don’t need balanced, then I wouldn’t suggest the Jotunheim.  I’m running balanced studio monitors and balanced HD 600s, so I needed that feature.  But if you’re running SE and want to go the Schiit route - I’d suggest the Magni 3/Modi Multibit combo.  Later if you want to add the Schiit EQ, than you’ll have that option. 

Concerning EQ - try the Sonarworks trial and see if you like it - it’s fun.  You still might want an external EQ because the thing that a plug-in to correct your headphones won’t do, is correct for the recording.  Sometimes I wonder what system was used for some of the mixes that I hear - with your own EQ you can compensate for certain mix/master decisions...


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## hikaru12 (Jun 19, 2018)

Im getting the Jot in this week. I’m getting a pair of Colorados balanced just for the occasion. I wish I had gone Balanced from the start. I let the fear of the Jot being bright stray me away but I’ve always wanted to go balance ever since I got a ZMF Atticus.

I hope the LCD 2s will be a great pairing with these. I’m really looking forward to hearing this amp and finally going fully balanced. Right now I’m running the Project Headbox which is doing a great job of being neutral but bringing out the slam of the Audezes. I’m artifically holding my Gumby back though by going SE since the outputs are summed. I expect to get a detail upgrade and more slam. Any other benefits will be an added bonus! Can’t wait!


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## K.J. (Jun 19, 2018)

rutter said:


> Two important pieces of information. One, I see it repeatedly claimed that the DAC modules that you can buy with the Jotunheim are not good. Despite what Schiit claim about figuring something out with an all in one unit that doesn't appear to be the case in practice based on feedback.


There is no evidence backing that up. "Claims" are worthless.

The original 4490 DAC was definitely the weakest link, but the new MB DAC blows it out of the water.


----------



## GearMe

rutter said:


> You need to equalize first, which is what Sonarworks actually does, before deciding whether you need further changes, which Sonarworks can also apply on the low and high end.


Hmmm...assuming you want to get to a flat response I guess.  I own the Sonarworks product and it's fun to play with but, for the most part, I'd rather listen to the headphones I own in their 'natural' state.  From AKG to Audeze to Beyer to Denon to Foster to Grado to HiFiMan to Koss to OPPO to Phillips to Sennheiser to Yamaha...they each bring listening joy in their own way.  

I didn't buy Grados or Fostex to turn them into something they aren't...rather hear them with music they excel at and then swap them for something different when I feel like it!

To each his own... I guess.


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## rutter (Jun 19, 2018)

My LCD-X clearly sounds like crap in comparison to the Sonarworks EQ. It's also not something you play with. You play with an "equalizer", Sonarworks actually equalizes in a matter of seconds. If you want to have fun, knock yourself out with a four-knob Loki.

I've repeatedly seen it stated that the multibit DAC module of the Jot is worse than the Modi Multibit, at basically the same price. Could those people be wrong? I can't even begin to answer that question. I'd try to look this up, and if I haven't ordered the stuff yet I'd just order a Modi Multibit with the Jot amp only. Do you have the Modi Multibit to compare? I haven't encountered someone claim they perform the same.



zyglrox17 said:


> I have zero noise on max volume w/ balanced cable and low gain. Also tested it on high gain just now and there's no white noise. I have the 2nd gen balanced DAC module and LCD-X.



I have a ton of noise single ended when cranked up on high gain and perceptible noise past 3 o'clock on low gain. Tried with a Magni 3 and I only have noise on high gain past around 4 o'clock. I think that's the Modi Multibit. Tried an HE400i as well, problem still there. Serves me right for complimenting it.


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## rkw

rutter said:


> I've repeatedly seen it stated that the multibit DAC module of the Jot is worse than the Modi Multibit, at basically the same price. Could those people be wrong? I can't even begin to answer that question. I'd try to look this up, and if I haven't ordered the stuff yet I'd just order a Modi Multibit with the Jot amp only. Do you have the Modi Multibit to compare? I haven't encountered someone claim they perform the same


In theory, the Modi Multibit _should_ sound better because it has an external power supply. All of the Jot DAC cards are powered by the USB, which can be a source of noise (not powered by the Jot's internal power supply, which is exclusively for the amp section).


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## GrussGott

rutter said:


> I have a ton of noise single ended when cranked up on high gain and perceptible noise past 3 o'clock on low gain. Tried with a Magni 3 and I only have noise on high gain past around 4 o'clock. I think that's the Modi Multibit. Tried an HE400i as well, problem still there. Serves me right for complimenting it.



Balanced is way WAY WAY over-rated, especially on this thread.  I have zero noise on high gain max volume via either SE to Th-X00 or balanced to HD-600s ... but I used to have a lot of noise and it got worse when I touched the volume pot!  I live in an apartment in the center of a city - RF off the charts and noisy AC, so here's what I did to get rid of it:

(1.) Stopped using the Chord Mojo as a dac and switched to Eitr > Mimby
(2.) Upgraded my interconnects to all high quality shielded (yes the arrows mean something and aren't a joke: the interconnect shielding is electrically connected to the downstream ground-plane only, not the upstream one, thus the arrows)
(3.) Upgraded my Jot power cable to a high quality shielded cable plugged directly into the outlet a meter away

My HD 600s mmmmaaaayyyybe sound better balanced, but if so it's extremely subtle, and after hearing the TH-X00 balanced versus I just decided to leave the cable SE and not mod it.  That said, my Atticus and Eikon are balanced, but I have the pigtail and, again, maaayyyybe with some songs in certain circumstances but I really haven't tested it.


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## rutter (Jun 20, 2018)

Unfortunately my Modi Multibit has to be screwed up. I have the Schiit RCA and USB cables, tried two different headphones, not even using balanced headphone cables. Second defective Schiit product out of five thus far. Disappointing. Apparently Bifrost Multibit makes exceedingly little sense over the Modi Multibit, so now I have to be inconvenienced and probably pay an extra $30 in the shipping they don't cover in order to get a replacement and send this one back. Annoying. So much want to get a Questyle CMA400i and return all their stuff, just hesitant. The way they're chronically back-ordered is also ridiculous. I actually might just decide to move away from them.


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## GrussGott (Jun 20, 2018)

rutter said:


> Unfortunately my Modi Multibit has to be screwed up. I have the Schiit RCA and USB cables, tried two different headphones, not even using balanced headphone cables. Second defective Schiit product out of five thus far. Disappointing. Apparently Bifrost Multibit makes exceedingly little sense over the Modi Multibit, so now I have to be inconvenienced and probably pay an extra $30 in the shipping they don't cover in order to get a replacement and send this one back. Annoying. So much want to get a Questyle CMA400i and return all their stuff, just hesitant. The way they're chronically back-ordered is also ridiculous. I actually might just decide to move away from them.



if you're saying it's defective because you have a low level of noise with no active input, but the unit otherwise works fine, that doesn't sound likely.  Have  you tried emailing Schiit to let them know what's going on and your thoughts about the failures?  If so what do they say?

I have a lot of schiit products and have never had a problem - it sounds like you have EMI issues - so did I and shielding fixed it.  I'd recommend blue jeans or pangea cables / interconnects or Audioquest if you're looking to step up*.  Any decent cable or most any from amazon have at least a 30 day return policy so you can try them to find out for little to no cost.

*please, for the love of all things internet-holy, please nobody start a cables debate, that's off-topic and best for the "science" forum


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## rutter

Dude, I spent $40 on their cables. The shielding is supposedly there. There is background noise at listening level with a headphone. Are you kidding me? The first Schiit Loki I got had a clear imbalance when using a particular knob. You've never had a problem, I've had a problem two out of five times. What do I care about you?


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## GrussGott

rutter said:


> Dude, I spent $40 on their cables. The shielding is supposedly there. There is background noise at listening level with a headphone. Are you kidding me? The first Schiit Loki I got had a clear imbalance when using a particular knob. You've never had a problem, I've had a problem two out of five times. What do I care about you?



That's a good point.  You're the expert here and you've got the problem nailed: it's between the cups every time you wear headphones.

Should be an easy fix!  Good luck!


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## kevlar51

rutter said:


> Dude, I spent $40 on their cables. The shielding is supposedly there. There is background noise at listening level with a headphone. Are you kidding me? The first Schiit Loki I got had a clear imbalance when using a particular knob. You've never had a problem, I've had a problem two out of five times. What do I care about you?



You specifically asked for solutions and he's trying to help you find them.



rutter said:


> Any issue with background white noise with the Jotunheim? Just noticed that it is present on mine. I think it's just or somewhat above max listening volume but somehow I noticed it and if you turn the knob it becomes quite loud. Is it about the 20-ohm LCD-X I'm currently using, is this something there with any headphone, or? Would using balanced lower the threshold?


----------



## Tuneslover

GearMe said:


> Hmmm...assuming you want to get to a flat response I guess.  I own the Sonarworks product and it's fun to play with but, for the most part, I'd rather listen to the headphones I own in their 'natural' state.  From AKG to Audeze to Beyer to Denon to Foster to Grado to HiFiMan to Koss to OPPO to Phillips to Sennheiser to Yamaha...they each bring listening joy in their own way.
> 
> I didn't buy Grados or Fostex to turn them into something they aren't...rather hear them with music they excel at and then swap them for something different when I feel like it!
> 
> To each his own... I guess.



As a general rule I'm in agreement with your philosophy however I still haven't found the "perfect" headphone (close though).  However I find that the Loki gives me just enough adjustment flexibility to dial in the sound of all of my headphones to put a satisfying smile on my face.  When I'm in the mood to be a purist I switch the Loki to by-pass.


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## NEXTLEVEL5

rkw said:


> In theory, the Modi Multibit _should_ sound better because it has an external power supply. All of the Jot DAC cards are powered by the USB, which can be a source of noise (not powered by the Jot's internal power supply, which is exclusively for the amp section).


I have the multibit add-in for my jotunheim and it is super quiet. If there is extra noise from the powered USB I don't hear it.


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## rutter (Jun 20, 2018)

kevlar51 said:


> You specifically asked for solutions and he's trying to help you find them.



I already stated I'm using the Schiit interconnect and USB cables. Another poster already stated background noise shouldn't be occurring (make that two now), and certainly not to the extent it is for me. Not following what has been written isn't trying to help, and I actually wasn't asking for solutions but to identify a problem. Schiit is going to provide the solution, at my inconvenience and expense. That or I provide my own solution and stop dealing with their defective, overrated, and chronically back-ordered products due to their mismanagement.

This shouldn't be the issue, but is the USB connection of the separate Modi Multibit gen5?

What is the Jotunheim Balanced module supposed to be, by the way? If I'm going to stick with these people maybe I just try to save money and spend when I upgrade to better products, preferably from another company. Anyone compared the balanced module, versus the multibit module, versus a Modi Multibit? They seem to trash delta sigma a lot and I presume that's what the balanced module is.


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## GrussGott (Jun 20, 2018)

rutter said:


> I already stated I'm using the Schiit interconnect and USB cables. Another poster already stated background noise shouldn't be occurring (make that two now)



There is no promise from any vendor that using their equipment (or cables) is a guaranteed equivalent to sitting in a Faraday cage connected to filtered power - no vendor can control for your environment or your set up.

For example, you may have a ground loop which happens when two or more devices are connected to a common ground through different paths (and connected together with interconnects, creating the loop). Currents flowing through the multiple paths generate voltage which comes through as noise or hum from your amp.  (e.g., the "60Hz hum").  Another possible source can be an unshielded power cord which throws off EMI and sits a inch or so from your amp inputs.

What people are telling you is, the issue is 90%+ likely to be a setup / environment issue which is beyond any vendor's control - The way we know this is true is because some people using the same equipment have no noise and some people have had noise, but in taking further steps individualized to them, they've eliminated it.  Vendor equipment is a starting point, not the final answer for every possible environmental / setup variable.

Sure, one method of troubleshooting is to constantly switch vendor equipment until you find something/some setup that isn't passing through noise, but that sounds like much more of a moving target than simply changing one variable at a time.  Cycling through tons of vendor equipment sounds like WAY more "inconvenience and expense".

If you believe the problem is your specific device (Jot and/or Mimby) work through Schiit and post a follow up or ditch the equipment for new stuff and good luck with it.

If you believe the problem is set up, play with that and let us know.


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## rkw (Jun 20, 2018)

rutter said:


> Anyone compared the balanced module, versus the multibit module, versus a Modi Multibit?


There are comparisons, but they tend to be scattered comments in individual posts. The same DAC cards are also used in Lyr3 and you could search the threads on head-fi and another forum.


rutter said:


> They seem to trash delta sigma a lot and I presume that's what the balanced module is.


Keep in mind, 2/3 of DACs in the Schiit product line are delta sigma (including an $850 Gungnir).

If you've been unhappy with your experiences, it will be hard for your perception to change and it may be best to cut your losses now and move on.


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## rutter

GrussGott said:


> There is no promise from any vendor that using their equipment (or cables) is a guaranteed equivalent to sitting in a Faraday cage connected to filtered power - no vendor can control for your environment or your set up.
> 
> For example, you may have a ground loop which happens when two or more devices are connected to a common ground through different paths (and connected together with interconnects, creating the loop). Currents flowing through the multiple paths generate voltage which comes through as noise or hum from your amp.  (e.g., the "60Hz hum").  Another possible source can be an unshielded power cord which throws off EMI and sits a inch or so from your amp inputs.
> 
> ...



I'm just using the equipment as I'm supposed to, with their shielded cables to boot. The power cords are theirs. Plugging them in different places isn't helping. I have moved them away from other power cords and the issue persists. There is noise with a Jotunheim and a Magni 3, worse with the Jotunheim. No one aside you has told me anything, and I'm 90% certain you're wrong. The only thing others have told me is this shouldn't be happening. Seems like a logical fallacy on your end that just because you haven't had a problem with Schiit so far they don't send out defective units. And you must think me a huge fool to be troubleshooting through you. I've emailed Schiit. Decided to ask here if others were experiencing the same thing, which for whatever reason you assume is unlikely to be a fault with the product. It's a pointless discussion unless you have any other ideas that make sense. I sure as hell am not buying more cables after spending money on the Schiit cables. What am I supposed to "play with" regarding the "set-up"? It really isn't complicated.

Think I'm just going to order the Questyle CMA400i and return everything. Schiit charges by far the most for shipping and coincidentally it's the slowest shipping I deal with, by the way, and everything is constantly on back-order. Exceptional inconvenience. Just not a very professional company, albeit it has a considerable following.


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## MWSVette (Jun 20, 2018)

rutter said:


> I'm just using the equipment as I'm supposed to, with their shielded cables to boot. The power cords are theirs. Plugging them in different places isn't helping. I have moved them away from other power cords and the issue persists. There is noise with a Jotunheim and a Magni 3, worse with the Jotunheim. No one aside you has told me anything, and I'm 90% certain you're wrong. The only thing others have told me is this shouldn't be happening. Seems like a logical fallacy on your end that just because you haven't had a problem with Schiit so far they don't send out defective units. And you must think me a huge fool to be troubleshooting through you. I've emailed Schiit. Decided to ask here if others were experiencing the same thing, which for whatever reason you assume is unlikely to be a fault with the product. It's a pointless discussion unless you have any other ideas that make sense. I sure as hell am not buying more cables after spending money on the Schiit cables. What am I supposed to "play with" regarding the "set-up"? It really isn't complicated.
> 
> Think I'm just going to order the Questyle CMA400i and return everything. Schiit charges by far the most for shipping and coincidentally it's the slowest shipping I deal with, by the way, and everything is constantly on back-order. Exceptional inconvenience. Just not a very professional company, albeit it has a considerable following.



In all likelihood you have a ground loop causing the "noise".   This has nothing to do with your equipment.  It is a ground loop inside the walls of the residence.

I have found the folks at Schiit to be very professional.  I have also been pleased with their product availability and shipping options.

Sorry your Schiit did not work out for you.  And if it makes you happy to return it then of course do so.


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## rutter

Out of curiosity, how I would fix the ground loop inside the walls of the residence? Never heard it expressed that way before and I was under the impression the fix should involve the products, but Schiit don't seem to have such support on their website. Their customer relations over email are fine, but that isn't what sums up the professionalism of a company.


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## GrussGott (Jun 20, 2018)

rutter said:


> Out of curiosity, how I would fix the ground loop inside the walls of the residence? Never heard it expressed that way before and I was under the impression the fix should involve the products, but Schiit don't seem to have such support on their website. Their customer relations over email are fine, but that isn't what sums up the professionalism of a company.



Try googling ground loops and audio noise!  Here's the info I discovered in 0.02 seconds of research
https://www.psaudio.com/ps_how/how-to-find-and-fix-hum/
https://www.techhive.com/article/30...noises-from-your-audio-and-video-systems.html

Ground loop:






No ground loop:


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## Natarian

rutter said:


> Out of curiosity, how I would fix the ground loop inside the walls of the residence? Never heard it expressed that way before and I was under the impression the fix should involve the products, but Schiit don't seem to have such support on their website. Their customer relations over email are fine, but that isn't what sums up the professionalism of a company.


When my Schiit Valhalla 2 had an audible noise, I got a EbTech Hum X and it fixed it.


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## Oklahoma (Jun 20, 2018)

rutter said:


> Out of curiosity, how I would fix the ground loop inside the walls of the residence? Never heard it expressed that way before and I was under the impression the fix should involve the products, but Schiit don't seem to have such support on their website. Their customer relations over email are fine, but that isn't what sums up the professionalism of a company.



As someone suggested an eb tech hum x will isolate the ground and can eliminate it. The main reason people are suggesting it is because it is happening on multiple amps. An easy way to test is to unplug the modi multi and cables from the jot and put the headphones on and crank the volume. If there is no background noise that will eliminate the jot add the issue. Next add the cables not plugged into anything and see if you get noise. If you do the cables are picking it up and so the shielding could be bad, if not then you know it isn't being picked up along the cables. Next I would plug in a phone or laptop audio out instead of the Modi as this will take you to eliminating everything but the modi and ground loop. As to the modi, what input are you using? If usb you might have a noisy usb output and that can very easily create a lot of noise. Modi does not have schiit usb5 as the is not enough room so the only way to test it would be to use either optical or another input from a cd player or the computer digital non usb out. If you still have noise out it's then most likely a ground loop or the modi has an issue. If you have no noise on a non usb input then you have a noisy usb and would either need to isolate with a wyrd, eitr, or other isolater product, this can also include a bifrost with usb5 as that isolates the usb. If you have a ground loop the EB Tech Hum X will most likely fix it.


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## the finisher

psuKinger said:


> Apologies in advance for what is likely a beginner question, but I just recently bought my first pair of "high impedence headphones" (Sennheiser HD 6xx) and now need to purchase my first "real" desktop DAC/AMP (my portable Fiio Q1 isn't going to cut it).  In the past, in other aspects of my tech/gadget life, I've made purchases in "multiple rounds" after discovering that I really enjoy/like something and didn't get *enough* the first time around (my first subwoofer, my first pair of tower speakers, my first 2 AVRs, my first two "big screen TVs", etc).  So while I don't need balanced inputs/outputs yet and think I would probably be just fine (for now) with a Modi2/Magni 3 "stack", I'm very tempted (leaning towards, in fact) to just pull the trigger and buy this Jotenheim with one of the two (probably the Balanced) DAC options...
> 
> That said, I wanted to better understand how the Pre-Outs work.  I know at the 3:00 minute mark of the video on the O.P., it says that this can act in the role of a dedicated USB DAC should I choose to task it to be "just a DAC".  That's great news.  I'm guessing it does this by passing the now-converted-to-Analog signal out these pre-outs?
> 
> ...



Yes, _all_ outputs, including the headphone outputs are active simultaneously.


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## rutter (Jun 20, 2018)

In my 0.02 second look at those images I've discovered the info that there shouldn't be a ground loop as I've been mostly using the devices plugged into the same power strip. Facetiousness and GrussGott aside, instead of paying an extra $70 for something to test and accommodate schiit I've been pming with a member who suggested this - https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matter...f=sr_1_4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1529527658 . Regardless, I've ordered a Questyle CMA400i. Free shipping, arrives tomorrow. If you're on the other coast it would arrive at the same time as a Schiit package would minus the days or weeks waiting for a product to be in stock, for free, not to mention you can buy it from anywhere so that was a waste of a sentence clause. 30-day return period, zero restocking fees. Also more likely to be available to try at stores before you buy. I'll go into Schiit's marketing nonsense tomorrow. Let's see how the sound compares first and what happens with the ground loop.

It's not a noisy USB port. My Nano Black Label is silent. A couple of months ago I tried a Mojo and a Micro Black Label, which I cranked up to ensure there is no background noise as this was something I was aware of with my motherboard's DAC and one of the reasons to buy a dedicated DAC. It amuses me how willing some of you are to keep crap and spend more money to accommodate it. My thinking is I'm not in the buying literal schiit business. If there's noise with the CMA400i I'll go from there.

*!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*

Oklahoma, have to give you credit on unplugging the Jot from the Modi Mulbit suggestion. Based on the levels I think the Modi Multibit might be contributing but there's definitely noise coming from the Jot. And it just got more interesting!!!! It's a Schiit stack, right? You're supposed to put one thing on top of the other, right? I got these people's six inch cables so it's not like I have much of a choice. Well, with the Jot disconnected from the MM and the MM turned off when the MM sits on top of the Jot the Jot makes noise. When I lift the MM off the Jot the noise disappears! Mind you, there is no connection between the two devices and the MM is off. By sheer chance, because I plugged the Nano BL into a USB port of my computer I unplugged the MM's USB cable, I noticed that the Jot makes noise when the MM sits on top of it. Here's a shock though. When I plug the MM's USB cable into the computer, still disconnected from the Jot and turned off, in the same position on top of the Jot, the noise from the Jot disappears! This is getting even more messed up. If I press the volume knob down or in, or if I press the Jot from above down, lightly, the same type of noise occurs. When I unplug the MM's USB cable the same type of noise is constant, unless I lift the MM, but if I plug the USB cable in without touching the Jot with my hand and the MM rests on top of the Jot there is no noise!! Now I'm plugging the USB cable of the MM in, the noise goes away, MM is cycling its lights, plug the RCA cables back in (and almost blow out my right ear and the right driver of my LCD-X, hopefully no actual damage to either), and noise is there, except this time it's a different type of noise. It's grainy, and it's what I was hearing before. It's not the bzzzz I've been talking about thus far.

*!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*

So you tell me, what the hell did I just describe!? What in the world are these devices!? Someone here is smart enough to explain what could be happening here, right?


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## the finisher (Jun 20, 2018)

My Jot is absolutely silent at full volume, no signal with the LCD X.
I have very clean power, and very good shielding on everything.
Dedicated main, isolated ground, power conditioning/ filtering.


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## sixstringmonk

So here are my noise observations with a new Jotunheim that I got about 2 weeks ago with the multi-bit DAC:

Very slight amount of white noise with the volume at 3 o clock or higher when I'm on the USB input. It is there even if the USB is unplugged which should rule out a ground loop correct? I would never listen this loud so it's a non-issue. It's louder on the high gain, but I can barely hear it on low gain.
Audible hum at 3'o clock or higher on the dual analog input when I touch the volume knob. Can hear it in both low and high gain mode, but it's more noticeable in high gain mode. This is with no actual inputs plugged in (no usb or analog inputs).


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## rutter (Jun 20, 2018)

the finisher said:


> My Jot is absolutely silent at full volume, no signal with the LCD X.
> I have very clean power, and very good shielding on everything.
> Dedicated main, isolated ground, power conditioning/ filtering.



Did you even read that paragraph? You're seriously going to argue clean power and very good shielding? With all Schiit cables too?



rutter said:


> Oklahoma, have to give you credit on unplugging the Jot from the Modi Mulbit suggestion. Based on the levels I think the Modi Multibit might be contributing but there's definitely noise coming from the Jot. And it just got more interesting!!!! It's a Schiit stack, right? You're supposed to put one thing on top of the other, right? I got these people's six inch cables so it's not like I have much of a choice. Well, with the Jot disconnected from the MM and the MM turned off when the MM sits on top of the Jot the Jot makes noise. When I lift the MM off the Jot the noise disappears! Mind you, there is no connection between the two devices and the MM is off. By sheer chance, because I plugged the Nano BL into a USB port of my computer I unplugged the MM's USB cable, I noticed that the Jot makes noise when the MM sits on top of it. Here's a shock though. When I plug the MM's USB cable into the computer, still disconnected from the Jot and turned off, in the same position on top of the Jot, the noise from the Jot disappears! This is getting even more messed up. If I press the volume knob down or in, or if I press the Jot from above down, lightly, the same type of noise occurs. When I unplug the MM's USB cable the same type of noise is constant, unless I lift the MM, but if I plug the USB cable in without touching the Jot with my hand and the MM rests on top of the Jot there is no noise!! Now I'm plugging the USB cable of the MM in, the noise goes away, MM is cycling its lights, plug the RCA cables back in (and almost blow out my right ear and the right driver of my LCD-X, hopefully no actual damage to either), and noise is there, except this time it's a different type of noise. It's grainy, and it's what I was hearing before. It's not the bzzzz I've been talking about thus far.


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## Alcophone (Jun 21, 2018)

rutter said:


> In my 0.02 second look at those images I've discovered the info that there shouldn't be a ground loop as I've been mostly using the devices plugged into the same power strip. Facetiousness and GrussGott aside, instead of paying an extra $70 for something to test and accommodate schiit I've been pming with a member who suggested this - https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matter...f=sr_1_4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1529527658 . Regardless, I've ordered a Questyle CMA400i. Free shipping, arrives tomorrow. If you're on the other coast it would arrive at the same time as a Schiit package would minus the days or weeks waiting for a product to be in stock, for free, not to mention you can buy it from anywhere so that was a waste of a sentence clause. 30-day return period, zero restocking fees. Also more likely to be available to try at stores before you buy. I'll go into Schiit's marketing nonsense tomorrow. Let's see how the sound compares first and what happens with the ground loop.
> 
> It's not a noisy USB port. My Nano Black Label is silent. A couple of months ago I tried a Mojo and a Micro Black Label, which I cranked up to ensure there is no background noise as this was something I was aware of with my motherboard's DAC and one of the reasons to buy a dedicated DAC. It amuses me how willing some of you are to keep crap and spend more money to accommodate it. My thinking is I'm not in the buying literal schiit business. If there's noise with the CMA400i I'll go from there.
> 
> ...


That is beyond bizarre. Do you live close to train tracks or high current power lines or something like that?
Do you happen to have an outlet tester? Wondering whether your outlets are properly grounded. Also wondering about the voltage you're getting, do you have a Kill-a-Watt? Not suggesting you buy any of that, but something funky is going on.
BTW, the power cords Schiit includes are most likely not shielded. I also see no clue about the PYST cables being shielded. Certainly insulated, but not .necessarily shielded.
It may very well be a defective Jotunheim, though both of mine have never done any of what you describe, despite having been used in a variety of circumstances. So even if it's an issue with your Jotunheim, it's not necessarily a systemic issue.
And about stuff being backordered, there's an electronic parts shortage going on that Schiit may be affected by (though they certainly have a history of being backordered, but right it seems worse than usual).

Edit: Another question: are you using any powerlan adapters? I was impressed when one of them causef my parents' computer speakers to buzz when plugged into an outlet about 9ft away.


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## rutter

So I'm getting two different background sounds. The first is there with everything plugged in and during listening. It's there at listening volume with an HE400i headphone. It's a grainy type of noise, whitenoise? It is present with the MM plugged in but turned off.... OMG, there are three different background sounds!!!!!!! When I flip the MM on another, louder, more consistent layer comes on top that kind of sounds like sand. So this combination of the two is what is present during function. If I unplug the USB cable both sounds disappear in both circumstances. Now I turn off the MM and unplug the RCA cables. When I unplug the RCA cables from the Jot there's silence. When I press the volume knob down or in, or if I press on top of the Jot near the volume knob I hear the third more of a buzzing sound. As soon as I unplug the USB cable connecting the turned off MM that is disconnected from the Jot to the computer the buzzing sound reappears and is constant. If I lift the MM from the Jot the sound completely disappears. No matter where I place the MM on the Jot the sound is there. If I unplug the power cable from the MM the sound is still there but its volume is greatly reduced. Only connecting the USB cable between the computer and the otherwise completely disconnected (including the power cable) and unpowered MM sitting on top of the Jot removes the sound.

Wow... by the way, I was never claiming this issue (or issues) would be present on every Schiit product. But I am doubting some things on a systemic level. Don't have an outlet tester. Didn't have any background noise issues with Micro and Nano BL, Mojo. Is it safe to say that if the CMA400i checks out it's not a noisy USB port (maybe I'll start testing ports next; tried another at the front of the computer rather than the back, exact same thing with each of the three actually distinct background sounds)? It's not even a matter of a noisy USB port, it's a devil of a USB port if it both eliminates and creates sound. More like the God USB port, and it ain't looking kindly on the Schiit it's dealing with. I don't understand how their $20 cables can be excused, by the way. I bet others are using their cables and probably not having these issues, although who knows.


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## rutter (Jun 21, 2018)

sixstringmonk said:


> So here are my noise observations with a new Jotunheim that I got about 2 weeks ago with the multi-bit DAC:
> 
> Very slight amount of white noise with the volume at 3 o clock or higher when I'm on the USB input. It is there even if the USB is unplugged which should rule out a ground loop correct? I would never listen this loud so it's a non-issue. It's louder on the high gain, but I can barely hear it on low gain.
> Audible hum at 3'o clock or higher on the dual analog input when I touch the volume knob. Can hear it in both low and high gain mode, but it's more noticeable in high gain mode. This is with no actual inputs plugged in (no usb or analog inputs).



I would figure that it could be a ground loop if unplugging the USB doesn't eliminate the white noise? The thing for me is that with an HE400i the first two noises are audible at a silent listening level, and they seem to be close with the LCD-X, which is easier to drive. So what would happen when I get an HD800S, and go balanced to boot? Unacceptable. We seem to have a similar occurrence with respect to touching the volume knob. In, down, or trying to turn it past max for me, and when lightly pressing the top of the chassis near it. Interestingly, this only occurs for me when the Jot is disconnected from my separate MM, so upon rereading your post it seems in similar circumstances. Just tried doing these things now and I do not hear the third buzzing noise at all when connected to the MM under listening conditions (minus anything playing).

Also, no, I don't live next to train tracks or high current power lines.  Except take the headphones off that smiley face. No Kill-a-Watt either.


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## Alcophone

sixstringmonk said:


> So here are my noise observations with a new Jotunheim that I got about 2 weeks ago with the multi-bit DAC:
> 
> Very slight amount of white noise with the volume at 3 o clock or higher when I'm on the USB input. It is there even if the USB is unplugged which should rule out a ground loop correct? I would never listen this loud so it's a non-issue. It's louder on the high gain, but I can barely hear it on low gain.
> Audible hum at 3'o clock or higher on the dual analog input when I touch the volume knob. Can hear it in both low and high gain mode, but it's more noticeable in high gain mode. This is with no actual inputs plugged in (no usb or analog inputs).


Hooooly Schiit, this is fascinating. I just tested this with mine. Nothing plugged in except the power cord and my Ether Flow with a balanced cable. High gain.

Input set to USB (I have the original AK4490 module). Full volume: nothing. Unless I touch the volume pot or the top of the case, then I get a light buzz and some crackling. More crackling when I change the volume. Buzz is actually loudest at about 2 o'clock. All that is extremely faint on low gain. If I also touch the side or the back of the case with my other hand at the same time, the noise goes away again.

Input set to Balanced: Hum, buzz, crackling when I touch the volume knob or the top of the case. I'm now writing this on my Surface Pro 4. When I unplug it, it's far less loud. When it was off and just charging, I heard a clicking noise that went away when I unplugged it, and a shorter, much louder buzz when I plugged it back in. Another noise source is a USB charger. The noise gets louder when I get close to the cable or the charger, and even louder when I touch the tip of the cable. Loudest on highest volume. Lower on low gain.

Input set to single ended: See balanced, just louder.

It's definitely noise from other devices. Which is fascinating, because here's my layout:

Furman PST-8D in outlet. It has two isolated sections with two outlets, and four more outlets.
Power strip in isolated section furthest away from the power cord. iFi iPurifier AC in the other outlet of that section. Another iPurifier AC in the first outlet of that power strip, cable to subwoofer (unplugged). Another iPurifier AC, cable to Jotunheim, cable to Topping DX7s (standby), cable to Vidar (powered off)
Power strip in one of the four additional outlets. Surface Pro 4 and two USB chargers in that one.
Power strip in another one of the four additional outlets. TV, modem, router, Harmony hub, Blu Ray player, AV receiver, cable box in that one.

So despite that supposed isolation and filtration of the PST-8D and three power conditioners helping out the Jotunheim, I get all that noise. Note that I'm running many of the cables in parallel, which probably contributes to the problem.

This is very fascinating! I'm soon getting a Niagara 1000 and fancy power cable to review, this is an excellent test for it, I would say!


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## rutter

This appears to be the least significant occurrence of noise though. Seems like for all three of us it's when there are no physical inputs, i.e. when the Jotunheim wouldn't be working. Could perhaps cast some doubt, but no clue whether there would be anything significant.

No powerlan adapters involved. It occurred to me that the CMA400i might not rule out a ground loop if that would require separate plugged in DACs and amps and I'm not sure the CMA400i allows its DAC to be coupled with an external amp. Ultimately I don't care too much as long as I get my money back, there are no such issues with the CMA400i, and the sound is satisfactory. I'm likely going to be spending some time with Schiit info. The Modi Multibit is 5-6 weeks old now and I'd prefer not to pay a restocking fee for the Jot.

@sixstringmonk What headphones are you using?


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## rutter

There is one detail I should point out that didn't occur to me. I use the "Lower volume to avoid clipping" option in Sonarworks, which I think reduces output by the db of the highest boost applied in equalization. I was not completely satisfied with the resulting sound on low gain, even when compensating with volume, so I've switched to high gain with the LCD-X. I suspect this is how I'm getting closer to the background noise threshold than sixstingmonk, and it really is a gradual progression as if I listen very closely it is identifiable earlier than when it might be rather clear albeit still low. As Sonarworks has an HE400i equalization too this might be why the background noise is occurring for me at a listening volume with that headphone, which is harder to drive. This might've been how I encountered the background noise in the first place. I got my Jotunheim a week ago, he got his two weeks ago. Maybe that's more than a coincidence although others should test. The thing is I have a separate Modi Multibit and I eventually run into this problem with a Magni 3 as well, although it's to a lesser extent and it's interesting that the Magni 3 in single end provides more power.


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## Oklahoma (Jun 21, 2018)

If it hums with nothing plugged in and you are touching it that is sign of a bad ground somewhere. It could be in the wiring of the house, it could be the power cable. What happens is it is trying to use you or whatever is touching it as part of the ground,  and depending on where you are touching it that will change the hum bad on how well you are making a circuit. Isolating the ground for the jot should fix it. Easiest way is with an EB Tech Hum X, or a power filter like a Panamax.


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## the finisher (Jun 21, 2018)

I have very crappy wiring in my house. When I put my studio together I ran 2-20 amp circuits to the room using 10 awg stranded cable for the wire outside the wall. And exterior decorative boxes mounted to the floor, with isolated ground/hospital grade outlets. It's a semi-permanent solution that I could remove without a trace.
Both these lines have isolated grounding back to the breaker box, I use  no exotic filtering/conditioning such as expensive Furman stuff.
Just the basic RF/EMI filters in my ESP Digital QC surge protectors, and a Emotive DC offset filter for Jot/Yggy.
My noisy gear (all the computers/networking ect...) are on 1 line, all my audio gear are on the other.
I enjoy no perceived noise on my system.

Edit: I also run a balanced system from end to end, and use shielded cables everywhere except my HP cables.
I have picked up noise from exposed RCA jacks, I use copper covers for them, on all RCA inputs on my gear.
My 4490 dac in the Jot is also silent, but I use a iFi iPurifier2 USB gizmo on it.


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## rutter

Oklahoma said:


> If it hums with nothing plugged in and you are touching it that is sign of a bad ground somewhere. It could be in the wiring of the house, it could be the power cable. What happens is it is trying to use you or whatever is touching it as part of the ground,  and depending on where you are touching it that will change the hum bad on how well you are making a circuit. Isolating the ground for the jot should fix it. Easiest way is with an EB Tech Hum X, or a power filter like a Panamax.



So all three of us have a bad ground somewhere? We're also talking about pressing it, not touching it. Perhaps you should reread those parts and try this yourself. That noise is also constant if the MM is disconnected from it and has its USB cable disconnected while sitting on top of the Jot, yet if only the USB cable is connected to the computer the noise completely disappears with the MM in the same position. Does plugging in the USB cable between the MM and the computer create a great circuit through the rubber feet of the MM? And as I stated a few posts up, this is the least of my concerns as it occurs under circumstances when the Jot is practically useless. I thought you people were claiming the bad ground or ground loop would explain the noises during listening conditions, not this possibly academic noise. What would it mean if the CMA400i is silent, Oklahoma?



Alcophone said:


> So despite that supposed isolation and filtration of the PST-8D and three power conditioners helping out the Jotunheim, I get all that noise. Note that I'm running many of the cables in parallel, which probably contributes to the problem.



Ground loop here too, Oklahoma? And I suppose you think the other two background noises I hear during listening conditions have to do with the my computer's USB ports, so I need to spend an extra like $150 on the Schiit Whatever? Should then reread sixstringmonk's post, and note that I have used three portable DACs/amps with no noise (and iFi sells one of these USB gadgets too except I didn't need it with the Micro and Nano Black Labels). I am not spending considerable money on trying to fix suspicious products unless problems persist with other products. CMA400i arrives today.


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## the finisher (Jun 21, 2018)

Maybe there is a problem with the Jot. You should contact Schiit, they are very reasonable.
Sorry for your issues, hope you get it worked out.


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## psuKinger

the finisher said:


> Yes, _all_ outputs, including the headphone outputs are active simultaneously.



This is great news.

Will the DAC still receive an input and output via the SE outputs while I have the amp set for inputs from the "SE inputs"?


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## rutter (Jun 21, 2018)

So Schiit is granting me an "exception" in allowing a return of the MM, but none of the shipping involved will be refunded. Furthermore, it seems like they are inclined to apply a restocking fee as well. In essence, my claim that the product is faulty seems to have gone in through one ear and made a clean exit through the other one. Almost like I should be thankful to get to return it. I'm not inclined to put up a big fight but needless to say it will be a big relief to be done with them and get as much money back as I can. The amount of money I have paid in shipping fees, by the way, has piled up. To the tune of over $100, and that might be conservative. Let's see how many restocking fees I eat as well. A painful way to acquire knowledge and experience. Why has Schiit made a prominent name for itself? The availability of cheaper products? I've read that the "Yggy" is supposed to sound very good, I've seen somewhere it's supposed to be competitive against a $15000 product, and the Bimby is supposed to be a "desktop Yggdrasil" according to the imaginary person posing that question on the Schiit product page and the imaginary people having said this elsewhere (I'll refrain from commenting on the actual person writing this stuff), and since in reality the Bimby sounds extremely like the Mimby (to the explicit point that you do not want to be buying a Bimby), and since the multibit card in the Jot is "essentially a Modi Multibit" did you guys know that you have an Yggdrasil inside your "configurable desktop control center" that is different from a DAC/amp insofar as to waste a bunch of sentences trying to be funny? How you guys don't get at least annoyed by this schiit I don't know. By buying the product, I suppose. No one takes these people to task over this nonsense though?


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## sixstringmonk

rutter said:


> @sixstringmonk What headphones are you using?



I have HD6XX.

I do have an ebtech hum-x somewhere. I also have a couple power conditioning strips I can try out. I'll dig all that stuff out tonight if I have time. Also - I believe the room I am in is on a GFCI or AFCI style breaker, so I'll probably see if I can replicate the humming on an outlet that is on a regular breaker.


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## MWSVette (Jun 21, 2018)

We got it.  You are unhappy with your Schiit.  You have now arranged to return it.  Can we move on now...

I look forward to your comments on the Questyle.


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## GrussGott

the finisher said:


> Maybe there is a problem with the Jot.



Hey Finisher - I see you have a Yggy / Jot combo, wondering if you had the gumby or mimby before that with the Jot and, if so, you're thoughts on improvement


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## Alcophone (Jun 21, 2018)

rutter said:


> So all three of us have a bad ground somewhere? We're also talking about pressing it, not touching it.



Not true in my case, touching the volume knob however lightly, or the top of the case makes the noise appear.
Touching the side or back with the other hand makes it go away.
All with nothing plugged in, i.e. in a useless state anyway. No issues during actual use.



rutter said:


> Ground loop here too, Oklahoma? And I suppose you think the other two background noises I hear during listening conditions have to do with the my computer's USB ports, so I need to spend an extra like $150 on the Schiit Whatever?



Dude, stop being so hostile. He was trying to help with limited information available. If this hobby upsets you so much, or the notion that in some cases good cables or power conditioners may well be necessary, maybe switch to knitting or something else that is cheap and relaxing.

Yes, Schiit isn't perfect. All of my gear from them has some minor kinks. All of it was still a step forward and I don't regret buying it. Including the Lyr 2 that I sent back (paying for shipping / a modest rental fee). Sorry it didn't work out for you. But you don't have to tell yourself that you're stupid for listening to all these schills out there, or whatever you're so worked up by. It doesn't help you or anyone else. Read the terms upfront and if they don't work for you in the worst case, buy from more traditional sources. Nobody will blame you.


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## GoodRevrnd

I get a hum when I touch my Lyr3, but didn't have this issue on my Jot.  It's kind of annoying, but my house was built in the 60s and I know the wiring is a bit goofy.  I think I have to file this under the old joke: "Doc, it hurts when I touch my knee!"  "Then stop touching it!"


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## rutter (Jun 21, 2018)

Alcophone said:


> Not true in my case, touching the volume knob however lightly, or the top of the case makes the noise appear.
> Touching the side or back with the other hand makes it go away.
> All with nothing plugged in, i.e. in a useless state anyway. No issues during actual use.
> 
> ...



I keep seeing the word hobby come up when I bring up questionable performance. This isn't a hobby for me, my dude. I don't buy this stuff to sample and poke at like I'm at a $15 buffet, and when I go to and from the buffet gas isn't tens of dollars. You might as well take up knitting yourself because as far as hobbies go it didn't occur to me that something as passive as listening to headphones could be considered one. Let's not go down this route. I also don't think of people as schills or shills but it doesn't surprise me to encounter this sort of a pedestrian mentality over discourse.

I agree with GoodRevrnd. As I stated before, I'm not sure why you found the disconnected Jot noise to be particularly fascinating. As long as it isn't indicative of anything when the Jot is in use it's academic. I guess that's the hobbyist in you trying to find something to be excited about when I have an actual problem which is going to cost me money. I don't think I was being unduly hostile toward Oklahoma. Three people reported the same occurrence consecutively, and per the quote I singled out you appear to have quite a bit of protection or to have taken multiple measures. Seemed to me like Oklahoma wasn't following the thread closely. Not to mention, again, this noise in particular is not the noise that is heard during operation, so why focus on it so much? I feel like what I'm writing is skimmed over at most, which is fine, but then let's stop pretending we're trying to have a constructive discussion.

As for Schiit, you'd think they are the bees' knees if you go by most of what you read. I think another perspective is important.



sixstringmonk said:


> I have HD6XX.
> 
> I do have an ebtech hum-x somewhere. I also have a couple power conditioning strips I can try out. I'll dig all that stuff out tonight if I have time. Also - I believe the room I am in is on a GFCI or AFCI style breaker, so I'll probably see if I can replicate the humming on an outlet that is on a regular breaker.



Good. I'd like to hear what happens to the noise you experience with everything plugged in. If you want to go the extra mile you could download the Sonarworks trial, apply the equalization for whichever Sennheiser headphone would be closest, and tick off the Lower volume to avoid clipping option. Then you might run into the proximity or overlap I've run into.

PS



GoodRevrnd said:


> I get a hum when I touch my Lyr3, but didn't have this issue on my Jot.  It's kind of annoying, but my house was built in the 60s and I know the wiring is a bit goofy.  I think I have to file this under the old joke: "Doc, it hurts when I touch my knee!"  "Then stop touching it!"



Did you test both in the same house?


----------



## MWSVette

Someone new to add to the ignore list....


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## GrussGott (Jun 21, 2018)

Alcophone said:


> Iin my case,* touching the volume knob* however lightly, or the top of the case *makes the noise appear. * Touching the side or back with the other hand makes it go away.





GoodRevrnd said:


> *I get a hum when I touch my Lyr3, *but didn't have this issue on my Jot.



I had these two exact same issues when I first hooked up my Jot with no source plugged in:

(1.) Had a very low hum at 12 o'clock+ on the volume pot
(2.) Got a much louder hum whenever I touched the volume pot

It was curious because, at the time, I was using the Chord Mojo on battery power as a DAC so probably not a ground loop and maybe my body was acting as an antennae and passing EMI into the Jot's ground plane ... but something.

So I did two things:
(1.) Bought a 1.5 meter 14 awg pangea shielded power cable for $30 and plugged the Jot directly into a wall outlet with nothing else in the other plug
(2.) Bought shielded input cables/interconnects (audioquest forest $25)

These two things gave me 100% silence on high gain full volume with no input connected no matter what I touched - EMI was being routed out and/or never getting in.  Then:

(3.) I bought an Eitr, Mimby and pangea USB cable and blue jeans digital coax cable

I plugged the digital components (i.e., their powerbricks) into a power strip that's plugged into a separate outlet, validated there was no ground loop, and now I've got 100% silence and great input quality (as the Eitr electrostatically and electromagnetically isolates the source from the DAC)


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## sixstringmonk (Jun 21, 2018)

Ok - I got a bit of testing in:

TLDR: No change on the USB side. Filtering on the GFCI breaker helped a little with the analog hum but not white noise. Running on the regular breaker sounded better but still had some noise regardless of filtered or non-filtered.

First off - I can say that as Alcophone said, the humming on the RCA input is present pretty much regardless of where I touch the case. Making a second contact point quiets the hum quite a bit. It more or less goes away if the 2nd point of contact is one of the RCA jacks. I also noticed that the hum on the RCA input is there faintly with the volume up high even without touching anything, it just gets much louder as soon as I make contact with the Jotunheim. I also want to reiterate that I do not have a source plugged into the RCA jacks. Anything I could scrounge up over here to plug in would undoubtedly be noisier anyway (NES, C64, Sega Master System, old VCR).

I tried the following configurations with the volume maxed out:

Outlet on GFCI breaker -> power cable from Schiit = white noise on usb & white noise + hum on RCA
Outlet on GFCI breaker -> ebtech hum x -> power cable from Schiit = white noise on usb & white noise + reduced but present hum on RCA

Outlet on GFCI breaker -> thicker power cable = white noise on usb & white noise + hum on RCA
Outlet on GFCI breaker -> ebtech hum x -> thicker power cable -> = white noise on usb & white noise + reduced but present hum on RCA

Outlet on GFCI breaker -> Monster Pro 100 power conditioner on the analog filter side -> thicker power cable  = white noise on usb & white noise + greatly reduced but present hum on RCA
Outlet on GFCI breaker -> Monster Pro 100 power conditioner on the digital filter side  -> thicker power cable = white noise on usb & white noise + greatly reduced but present hum on RCA

Outlet on regular breaker -> ebtech hum x -> thicker power cable = white noise on usb & white noise + greatly reduced but present hum on RCA
Outlet on regular breaker -> Monster Pro 100 power conditioner on the analog filter side -> thicker power cable = white noise on usb & white noise + greatly reduced but present hum on RCA
Outlet on regular breaker -> Monster Pro 100 power conditioner on the digital filter side  -> thicker power cable = white noise on usb & white noise + greatly reduced but present hum on RCA
So my takeaway is that I might want to swap out the breaker my home office is on or use a filter. Either way, there will be a little bit of noise at volumes I won't be using anyway.


----------



## Oklahoma

Well this took a turn before I was able to get back. Unfortunately without actually being able to see and try things it is rather hard to see what is going on. I have had my issues with some of my Schiit products as well. I was getting interference in my Lyr2 when I first set it up and through pretty much the same process I put up was able to find that it was picking it up on the rca cables that ran to it. Quick swap of cables to ones with better shielding and I was good to go again. After setting my computer up for a large event and running things there when I brought it back home the crap-tastic power in the facility had done something to my computer and now was getting noise when doing things on the computer. Only difference was that I had removed the computer and taken it to the event and plugged it all back in as it was before, but now there is noise. It had started outputting dirty power through the usb and that was creating the noise. I added a wyrd to isolate the usb and all the noise went away. Many times things that one person sees can manifest differently in different setups and only through trying things and eliminating possibilities will it work itself out. You think tracking down noise in a home system is hard try tracking it down on a large event main stage running balanced cables and thousands of watts of speakers. If there is a hum it won't be that quiet. We have ended up having to run power for the speakers on completely different power banks on a power distributor than some of the other equipment as it was adding interference into it just by being on the same power bank, not even the same circuit. Also, at the same show all audio cables running from a satellite room where broadcast and video was ran to the sound booth in the main stage room we had to make sure the cables were at least 10 feet from the power distro due to the cables picking up interference from it. You would be surprised how much interference a 480v 100A 3phase power distributor can create just sitting there along the back wall.

Now, none of this changes rutter's experience and his experience doesn't change mine with Schiit. Is Schiit perfect? NO. People have bad experiences with products all the time and this being a Schiit product thread people are going to try and defend it; is this right or wrong, I don't know. Everyone has an opinion on this and I don't have to share yours for both of ours to be valid. Rutter you said they sound like they are being gracious by letting you return the Modi and in reality they could have told you; sorry it is outside the return period, and they would have been well within their rights to say so as you had exceeded the stated return period. They also could say send it in and we will look at it and repair it if needed or offer a full refund if found defective. The reality is they agreed to take the return outside of the stated return period and even if returned within the 15 day return period it is stated that they will take a 15% restocking fee as it now has to be sold in the B-Stock which is typically 10-15% under the regular price; so it minimizes risk of being stuck with lots of B-stock from returns that now get much lower margin for the sale. This is how they have decided to run their business; whether right or wrong in your eyes.

I wish you the best on finding something that works for you.


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## the finisher (Jun 21, 2018)

psuKinger said:


> This is great news.
> 
> Will the DAC still receive an input and output via the SE outputs while I have the amp set for inputs from the "SE inputs"?



No, with inputs you have 3 choices only. The add on card, the single ended, or balanced.


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## the finisher (Jun 22, 2018)

GrussGott said:


> Hey Finisher - I see you have a Yggy / Jot combo, wondering if you had the gumby or mimby before that with the Jot and, if so, you're thoughts on improvement



No, I tried some somewhat expensive Sigma/Delta dac/preamp combos and heard a negligible improvement over my cheap dac in my Outlaw 2160 receiver with a LS50, dual sub speaker system, and the LCD X's

So I bought some Schiit! Yggy and Jot and compared to a RME ADI-2 DAC, and a PS Audio Stellar GCD, the Schiit kicked ass so I kept it.
No regrets on Yggy, I would have only wondered if I got Gumby.

I bought the Focal Solo 6 Be's to replace the LS50's in the nearfield system so balanced was a requirement.
The most impressive thing in my system is the Jot really, at only $400 and it's not really holding this system back.
It's an incredible value IMO. I will upgrade it, but not anytime soon.


----------



## rutter

Well, looks like I have some crow to eat. Got the Questyle CMA400i. Volume turned all the way up has white noise. There is a big difference in that my LCD-X is driven well before it becomes at all detectable, which allays my fears about what will happen with HD800S and/or balanced. The bigger problem is the 400i did not make a positive first impression in comparison to the MM + Jot. Maybe it needs to run for some time. I may walk so far back on my words as to try to upgrade to a BM- Bifrost Multibit. As the USB connection might be the issue in addition to tackling that I'd get whatever benefit the BM has over the MM, if virtually any but I'd like to be certain. Rough impression is the MM + Jot is more energetic. There is also something grainy to the 400i, don't know if that's music getting exposed, the 400i needing time to warm up or break in, or it just not being very good. Might have more separation, better imaging, and a better soundstage though. Yet the Schiit sound somehow appears cleaner or clearer. Initially I thought the Schiit stack crushed the 400i. As I've been switching back and forth the gap seems to be narrowing, certainly something I'll keep doing. If I stick with Schiit I think the ground loop will be the last thing I address, first would try to get a Bifrost Multibit. Except that thing has been backordered to two weeks from now for as long as I've been looking...

This might end up being rather close, actually.


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## the finisher (Jun 22, 2018)

With Schiit you need to just order to get on the list for back orders, you can always change your mind before shipment.


----------



## rutter

I know, the thing is I'd probably have to send back the MM. Guess that gives me time to get well acquainted with the CMA400i before I return it. I hate doing what I'm currently doing, by the way. Constantly plugging and unplugging crap switching between two DACs/amps and trying to tell the differences, not to mention listening to the same song tens of times. Think I have to give the nod to Schiit here though. Funny thing is, I've been told that balanced DACs/amps that are primarily designed for balanced could sound significantly worse single ended. There's a possibility that's what the 400i is.


----------



## hikaru12

So here's my 48 hour impressions with the Jotunheim. When I first got the Jot in and had it plugged into my Gumby SE connections (was waiting for a balanced cables to hook it up) and with my balanced Audezes the immediate impression I got was from the slam of the subbass. The LCD 2.2's aren't super mid bass cannons so the deep subbass was incredibly punchy and satisfying. I'm not really sensitive to treble glare so I honestly liked the extra sizzle and crispness of cymbal crashes but the Jot did inject a little too much emphasis on 'ss' sounds and such. The other thing I noticed right away with the Jot was 'recessed' mids. Coming from such an 'in your face' headphone as the LCD-2 I expected the mids to be just as punchy. For reference, on SE mode with a balanced headphone cable I was sitting at about noon on the pot. This left me with a sour impression as I thought the Jot was supposed to be more aggressive and forward sounding. I attributed this to the leanness of the Jot overall. Comparing it directly to my HeadBox S which only cost me $130 I was amazed by how much more rich and pronounced the mids were on it. It sounded a lot clearer and more neutral, letting the warmness of the LCD-2's shine. The bass was very neutral and shy of what I knew the LCD 2's could bring out but still satisfying.  I had begun to think I made a big mistake. I've been wanting to go balanced for the longest time and also because I prefer the heavy dutiness of the connector ever since I bought my first ZMF.

The next day after a full 24 hours of leaving the Jot on and getting a new pair of Colorado XLR's I finally had the amp fully balanced. My first impressions were the bass was still slamming but it gained a little bit more control. The most immedieate aspect is the amp sounded warmer. The treble was still there but it wasn't as etched as it sounded before. Speaking of which; by all accounts, I honestly don't think the Jot is bright but it's certainly not neutral. I believe the HeadBox at it's price is incredibly neutral and wire with a gain. In any case, the Jot sounded a bit more warmer and the bass slam was a bit more tighter. Clarity and micro-detail in reverbs especially improved. The Audezes from 2014 smeared over detail in favor of more bass and this quickly became apparent at the volume levels I was listening at. I still wasn't fully on board with the Jot until I did some back and forth testing with the Headbox to match volume levels both in low and high gain. Right now, at about 11 o clock on high gain is the perfect compromise. The subbass is still very punchy but it doesn't overwhelm the mids. The mids sound just as rich as they do before but with a bit of liveliness from the balanced connection and also because of the Jot's characteristics. I'd say overall it's definently a hair above the Headbox. I wouldn't say it's in a totally different league. You can get by with cheaper amps with these headphones as they are about 70 ohm impedance and good sensitivity. What I like about the Jot is all the power on deck if I switch to a lot less sensitive headphones in the future and the ability to go fully balanced.

The final full tweaks I'm going to make to my system are just power conditioning and possibly upgrading to a silver coaxial connection to the Gumby instead of the Optical connection going in. I'm a bit concerned that if I go with a silver electrical connection vs glass the sound will sound brighter and reduce the subbass, unfortunately I haven't been able to find an all copper coaxial cable that has great reviews and is still able to retrieve low level detail and clarity without affecting any of the other frequencies. 

Overall, I'm quite satisfied with the Jot and it's a great amp for planars. I'm glad it's priced at it's price because I think at any higher and it wouldn't be able to compete. There are a lot of great SS amps out there for the money including balanced that make it hard to find what the real bargains are out there to be had.

For any owners of the Jot who didn't order the modules at the start (phono or DAC) is it possible to get it after the fact? I've read that the phono module on the Jot is quite good and I'd like to add it for my Project Carbon. I'm debating on some Martin Logans or DynAudios in my near future lol.


----------



## RickB

Yes, it’s possible to have the add-on boards installed after purchase.  Look on the lower left side of the Schiit products page


----------



## sup27606

hikaru12 said:


> So here's my 48 hour impressions with the Jotunheim. When I first got the Jot in and had it plugged into my Gumby SE connections (was waiting for a balanced cables to hook it up) and with my balanced Audezes the immediate impression I got was from the slam of the subbass. The LCD 2.2's aren't super mid bass cannons so the deep subbass was incredibly punchy and satisfying. I'm not really sensitive to treble glare so I honestly liked the extra sizzle and crispness of cymbal crashes but the Jot did inject a little too much emphasis on 'ss' sounds and such. The other thing I noticed right away with the Jot was 'recessed' mids. Coming from such an 'in your face' headphone as the LCD-2 I expected the mids to be just as punchy. For reference, on SE mode with a balanced headphone cable I was sitting at about noon on the pot. This left me with a sour impression as I thought the Jot was supposed to be more aggressive and forward sounding. I attributed this to the leanness of the Jot overall. Comparing it directly to my HeadBox S which only cost me $130 I was amazed by how much more rich and pronounced the mids were on it. It sounded a lot clearer and more neutral, letting the warmness of the LCD-2's shine. The bass was very neutral and shy of what I knew the LCD 2's could bring out but still satisfying.  I had begun to think I made a big mistake. I've been wanting to go balanced for the longest time and also because I prefer the heavy dutiness of the connector ever since I bought my first ZMF.
> 
> The next day after a full 24 hours of leaving the Jot on and getting a new pair of Colorado XLR's I finally had the amp fully balanced. My first impressions were the bass was still slamming but it gained a little bit more control. The most immedieate aspect is the amp sounded warmer. The treble was still there but it wasn't as etched as it sounded before. Speaking of which; by all accounts, I honestly don't think the Jot is bright but it's certainly not neutral. I believe the HeadBox at it's price is incredibly neutral and wire with a gain. In any case, the Jot sounded a bit more warmer and the bass slam was a bit more tighter. Clarity and micro-detail in reverbs especially improved. The Audezes from 2014 smeared over detail in favor of more bass and this quickly became apparent at the volume levels I was listening at. I still wasn't fully on board with the Jot until I did some back and forth testing with the Headbox to match volume levels both in low and high gain. Right now, at about 11 o clock on high gain is the perfect compromise. The subbass is still very punchy but it doesn't overwhelm the mids. The mids sound just as rich as they do before but with a bit of liveliness from the balanced connection and also because of the Jot's characteristics. I'd say overall it's definently a hair above the Headbox. I wouldn't say it's in a totally different league. You can get by with cheaper amps with these headphones as they are about 70 ohm impedance and good sensitivity. What I like about the Jot is all the power on deck if I switch to a lot less sensitive headphones in the future and the ability to go fully balanced.
> 
> ...




Thank you for your detailed review. The headphone that is often claimed to pair well with the Jot is Sennheiser 650, and from my experience, is well supported. Conversely, I haven’t heard any LCD series can with the jot. (In my opinion of course) The smooth treble nature of Sennheiser 650 compliments the unforgiving highs of the Jot, and the bass (which is a strong point for Jot) shines through, giving a balanced sound signature. Again, IMO, any headphone with crispy trebles with potentially some peaks in the FR can sound harsh with the Jot due to its unforgiving highs. I have the Audeze EL-8O to compare among the Jot and two other portable amps, Cayin C5 and ponoplayer, both with smoother sound signature than the Jot, and my hypothesis checks out in this case. Extending this further, could the pre-fazor LCD cans perform better with Jot than their fazor counterparts? I am planning on upgrading to a LCD can in future, but as of now don’t know the answer to this question.

I have come to realize, how subtle differences in source quality make a noticeable difference in the Jot sound, probably due to its revealing nature. For example, passing the USB signal through an Eitr (MacBook pro —> Eitr —> Mimby —> Jot) improves the smoothness of the highs. Recently, I found that among the two resampling options in Audirvana, iZotope and Sox, the Sox produces a smoother sound with more bass impact, better imaging and a deeper soundstage. Of course, I am talking in relation to the Sennheiser/Jot combination. Still, it’s no substitute for a tube amp in soundstage and imaging, but Sox noticeably improves these sound characteristics in Jot. The result is, you can _observe_ the music rather than getting hit by it. It’s interesting, in one of the other forums, someone was commenting that with Sox the highs were shimmering. I didn’t feel that at all, probably because the Jot is already quite revealing in the highs, so the smoothness of the Sox is just complimentary. The point of bringing up the source characteristics is that, with a revealing amp like Jot, everything in the audio chain can make a noticeable difference, besides the headphones.


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## GrussGott (Jun 23, 2018)

hikaru12 said:


> The final full tweaks I'm going to make to my system are just power conditioning and possibly upgrading to a silver coaxial connection to the Gumby instead of the Optical connection going in. I'm a bit concerned that if I go with a silver electrical connection vs glass the sound will sound brighter and reduce the subbass, unfortunately I haven't been able to find an all copper coaxial cable that has great reviews and is still able to retrieve low level detail and clarity without affecting any of the other frequencies.



Nice write up, a couple of thoughts from my listening impressions as a basshead with a Jot, atticus and Eikon using an Eitr/Mimby DAC:

(a.) I'm not a big believer in "silver=bright, copper isn't" - in my experience it comes down to cable geometry / construction that determines the brightness and cables with sliver in them are typically better construction so there's correlation, but it's not causation.  I was happy to see that currawong seems to agree with this observation as he's heard a lot more equipment than I have

(b.) I've consistently found toslink to be inferior to good USB (e.g,. the Shiit gen 5 or eitr) and I don't even bother with it anymore

(c.) If you're looking for great coax cable, AQ carbon was a giant improvement over the bluejeans that I was using - i.e, "giant" within the scope of what a digital cable can do 

(d.) I haven't found much difference in SE or Bal from the dac so I've held off going Gumby, but I did find difference in a Jot that was on for 24-36 hours (I just leave it on always now), and in a high quality power cable.  Shiit claims there's no benefit in the power cable, but boy is my experience different.  Upgrading to a simple shielded 14awg pangea eliminated noise.  At some point in the future I may try a wireworld aurora or electra ...

So, for me, I'm debating which I should upgrade first: upgrade from the eitr/mimby to an yggy and then later an amp or upgrade from the jot to a decware or ampsandsound and then later an yggy ... hmmm .... trying to decide how much I like the Jot with ZMF dynamics ...


----------



## hikaru12

sup27606 said:


> Extending this further, could the pre-fazor LCD cans perform better with Jot than their fazor counterparts?



Possibly, the prefazor LCDs had a bit more subbass and a darker tilt with richer mids but the mids were not as detailed. The refinements by the fazor did cut out the subbass and improved detail. I have heard improved detail by using different headphone cables. Heidstat Nordost cables improved micro-detail a bit but kind of cut out on bass impact. The 2K cable made by Zach from ZMF is quite good but can't resolve the microdetail of the Nordost. I think I prefer the 2K and would opt to change something else in my system to retain the detail. The Jot really sounds fine to me when warmed up. Not bright or harsh in the slightest.

I wouldn't say the Jot is super revealing or transparent. My old Dragon Inspire tube amp was incredibly transparent and could pick out detail quite well but the Jot is moderately good at source changes. I can definitely tell a difference between several analog cables in the setup. I'm going to have to get longer RCA's so some Columbias or Niagras might be up my alley. I wonder if this transparency applies to all of the Jots outputs, in my case, specifically, the phono section which I plan on getting.



GrussGott said:


> in my experience it comes down to cable geometry / construction


I agree with you, plain OCC is more bassy and V shaped, whereas Litz reveals more detail but retains warmth and smoothness. I've noticed this with comparing a Nordost Heidstat cable with ZMF 2K stranded cable and several other aftermarket headphone cables. The cable I'm specifically referring to for Coaxial is the Nordost Silver Shadow which uses the same monofilament design as my headphone cable - I might be able to conclude then that it should be smooth with better detail with a little less boom to the bass. Not really sure. It's the only real affordable coaxial cable without going out and spending another $800 to see a minor change lol. Thanks for your input!


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## sup27606

GrussGott said:


> (c.) If you're looking for great coax cable, AQ carbon was a giant improvement over the bluejeans that I was using - i.e, "giant" within the scope of what a digital cable can do



Thanks for that information. What are the areas you found the biggest improvement in, microdetails and instrument separation?


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## GrussGott (Jun 23, 2018)

sup27606 said:


> Thanks for that information. What are the areas you found the biggest improvement in, microdetails and instrument separation?



Exactly - it was was an immediate "oh yeah" and then I switched back for a bit and got the veil back, and then back again for the "ok definitely"; for me it especially cleaned up some of the treble glare you hear a lot around the jot.

As a side note, I spoke with some signal engineers (who work on industrial and military applications) on why, and their analogy was to think of the entire chain like 5 stacked panes of glass you look through: if you live by the ocean and all of the panes have light salt mist on them, and you replace just one of the center panes with clean glass, you won't notice much of a difference ... But if you flip that around and have 5 clean panes and insert one dirty one in the stack, you'll notice it.  So that was their recommendation: replace all the interconnects with high quality cables - if you hear a difference, keep them, if you don't, return them, but don't try to replace just one.  AQ carbon was my most comfy price point for USB and digital coax and to my ears there's clearly a difference over the cheaper pangea usb and bluejeans cables/interconnects I was using.  (they also recommended not stacking the dac on the amp, not letting any of the cables touch anything, and keeping vibrations down, e.g., don't stack on top of a mini-fridge cabinet, etc)

As I mentioned in other posts this 100% eliminated any Jot noise and sound annoyances I had: macbook > eitr > mimby > jot

Caveat Audiophilia: this is my experience based on listening impressions.  No bing-bong devices or wobbly line doohickies were used in my evaluation (nor required for me for positive outcomes, YMMV, blah blah blah)


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## rutter (Jun 23, 2018)

I'm using the Jotunheim with the cma400i's DAC currently and there is serious background noise not quite at listening level but close (actually it does overlap with listening volume). It's once again a combination of noises but the most prominent is uneven, it's mostly consistent but it has clear breaks. What exactly is this supposed to be indicative of? A ground loop or the USB connection? Am I guaranteed to eliminate these noises if I attack both of these potential sources of noise?

By the way, if I turn the cma400i off the noise is there only in my right ear... unplugging the RCA right right cable only moves the noise to the left ear.


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## GrussGott (Jun 23, 2018)

rutter said:


> I'm using the Jotunheim with the cma400i's DAC currently and there is serious background noise not quite at listening level but close. It's once again a combination of noises but the most prominent is uneven, it's mostly consistent but it has clear breaks. What exactly is this supposed to be indicative of? A ground loop or the USB connection?* Am I guaranteed to eliminate these noises if I attack both of these potential sources of noise?*



No.  Here's why:

Ever buy a sports car? Many people think because they're more expensive they'll be easier to use when actually they're harder because they require configuration to perform well f_or that driver. _  You seem to expect you can buy expensive audio gear, but not do any configuration, and have everything work great.  That's how iphone and earbuds work, but not mid-fi (like a jot) and certainly not hi-fi.  The only thing we can do is tell you what worked for us, but you've been a dick to everyone trying to help you - here, I'll show you:

Rutter, what usually works to eliminate noise is to buy good quality shielded interconnects from Blue Jeans, Audioquest, or similar and a Shiit Eitr or similar USB isolation device to clean up the USB.  Also, buy a good, shielded power cable for your Jot and plug it directly into the wall by itself - don't use cheater plugs or power strips until you figure out the source of the noise.  Try moving all over the house (including the basement or garage if you have them) to see if you hear changes which can help you identify the source of the problem:  could be noisy mains, could be noisy usb, could be stray EMI, could be bad or defective cables, could be your equipment itself.  Bring your equip to a buddy's house and try it there.  Try different headphones.   All of that said, any reputable audio dealer will let you return high-quality cables within 30 or 60 days so for me that's the easiest first thing to try (and they usually work which is why the return policy is generous).


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## rutter

You're the only one who has suggested the interconnects could be an issue (which ticks me off as I spent a fair change of money on Schiit's own cables) and until this thread I hadn't encountered any of this. You yourself stated Schiit don't think a power cord makes a difference and you'd think they'd feel fine about their interconnect cables too. Nonetheless, I'll do what is necessary to eliminate or diminish this noise. I've ordered a Bimby with USB gen5 and a Hum X. Your suggestions will follow if I don't get satisfactory results. Wouldn't it be a peach if nothing helps. I'll see. Hoping I won't have to rob a bank to get to the bottom of this. I can only push returns so far.


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## GrussGott (Jun 23, 2018)

rutter said:


> *You yourself stated Schiit don't think a power cord makes a difference *and you'd think they'd feel fine about their interconnect cables too.



I hear you, but then how would Schiit know given they don't live in your house and plug their equipment into your outlets?    At the end of the day Rutter, if you want great sound, you're going to have to custom configure it yourself - no equipment vendor can or will do that for you.

Just this very day, Paul McGown, the founder of PS Audio, and an audio engineer for the last 40+ years, said he hasn't yet designed a fully integrated product because they're not exactly sure how to do it right yet.  Now some people love his stuff and some hate it, but the DSjr competes with the yggy for a top spot so they're doing something right.


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## rutter

The thing is this doesn't appear to be anything more than a technical issue- it doesn't pertain to sound quality. And thankfully so to be honest as if I found out I have to spend even more money on even more stuff just to get a satisfactory sound out of $1k+ headphones I'd start putting curses on people. No one knows this isn't an issue with the device itself, by the way (although with the number of people reporting some noise it seems like a Catch 22). I'm thinking that if the Hum X and the Bimby don't resolve this I'll invoke the warranty and request for Schiit to inspect it.


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## mwr2700

...I'd start putting curses on people


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## GrussGott (Jun 23, 2018)

rutter said:


> I have to spend even more money on even more stuff just to get a satisfactory sound out of $1k+ headphones *I'd start putting curses on people.*
> 
> 
> mwr2700 said:
> ...



Rutter, you bought an expensive car and expect to win your first race - that's not how enthusiast hobbies work:  It takes time, experience, research, intellectual curiousity and - yup - more money.  (<- btw, that's called "negative compounding")

You don't get magic just cause you have the equipment - ask any lady.  Not that I'd know.  A friend told me that.  From Canada.  You wouldn't know her.


----------



## hikaru12

GrussGott said:


> Rutter, you bought an expensive car and expect to win your first race - that's not how enthusiast hobbies work:  It takes time, experience, research, intellectual curiousity and - yup - more money.  (<- btw, that's called "negative compounding")
> 
> You don't get magic just cause you have the equipment - ask any lady.  Not that I'd know.  A friend told me that.  From Canada.  You wouldn't know her.



My first ever Schiit purchase was a Modi 2 and with a random USB cable - worked straight out of the box no problems or sound issues. Even used it with some speakers with the same result. No laptops though. For the most part, at this purchase price I would say it should be plug and play. That doesn't mean it will take all environmental variables out - I had a loud RF problem for the longest time running a long 15' USB cable with extenders picking up inteference like a radio and Rectifier hums in tube amps. Sometimes it's a hit or miss. Rutters should really stop trying to blame Schiit but it could certainly be a bad power supply on the unit not filtering properly. The quickest and cheapest way is to get a GFCI outlet tester for $10 and test for ground - then limiting distances of power cables and separating source cables from power. All the fixes suggested here can be done cheap before investing more money.

I vaguely recall of a noise issue with Jot but I can't recall what it was. It's not a very common occurence and only occured on certain sources I believe.


----------



## the finisher (Jun 24, 2018)

GrussGott said:


> Nice write up, a couple of thoughts from my listening impressions as a basshead with a Jot, atticus and Eikon using an Eitr/Mimby DAC:
> 
> (a.) I'm not a big believer in "silver=bright, copper isn't" - in my experience it comes down to cable geometry / construction that determines the brightness and cables with sliver in them are typically better construction so there's correlation, but it's not causation.  I was happy to see that currawong seems to agree with this observation as he's heard a lot more equipment than I have
> 
> ...



Just get the YGGY!  NOW 

I agree on the cable thing, really happy with what I have now. And not cheap for sure, but reasonable to me.




GrussGott said:


> Rutter, you bought an expensive car and expect to win your first race - that's not how enthusiast hobbies work:  It takes time, experience, research, intellectual curiousity and - yup - more money.  (<- btw, that's called "negative compounding")
> 
> You don't get magic just cause you have the equipment - ask any lady.  Not that I'd know.  A friend told me that.  From Canada.  You wouldn't know her.



I built my system from the main panel to my speakers/headphones. I have spent thousands, and much time doing research, and demoing products. Wiring everything myself, careful placement, careful routing of select cables.

It took awhile to be as happy as I am. I hated my LCD Xs and the LS-50s at first. Turns out I just hate crappy dac's.
After spending a lot more money and time I love them both.
The final addition of the Norne Solvine balanced cable put these X's over the top for me, and this cable costs as much as a Jot. I'd never thought I like headphones this much, never did before.

And Paul McGowan is a _real _nice guy, his company is top notch, I'd love to try the full on DSD but not in my price range!
I did buy a Stellar GCD from them, I was going to return in the 30 days cause I didn't really love it.
His Son told me to keep it for another 30 days to compare it with Jot/Yggy.
I would definitely do business with PS Audio again, even if Schiit won out on this round.


@rutter   Maybe you do have a issue with the Jot, and Schiit _will_ honer their warranty, but have you tried the many suggestions you have been given  here?

Your 1 pic has your gear sitting on books, and stacked, I don't do that I keep distance from one piece of gear to the next, Get a small audio rack off Amazon or something. I make sure my PC's are not in a place that they are spraying RF/EMI all over my audio gear.
And good shielded cables or balanced is mandatory when you have a lot of gear in 1 room, just look at any recording studio.

In this hobby the small things add up, do it right and you will be rewarded.


----------



## GrussGott

the finisher said:


> Just get the YGGY!  NOW


----------



## the finisher (Jun 24, 2018)

I want a pro iCan, but must resist for a good deal/used. 

Ohh that Zen Taboo looks very nice.  http://www.decware.com/newsite/TABOO.htm


----------



## rutter

sixstringmonk said:


> Ok - I got a bit of testing in:
> 
> TLDR: No change on the USB side. Filtering on the GFCI breaker helped a little with the analog hum but not white noise. Running on the regular breaker sounded better but still had some noise regardless of filtered or non-filtered.
> 
> ...



Doesn't this cover much of what others are suggesting? Yet some noise is still present whereas they are reporting no noise.


----------



## rutter

I've been googling and reading a little bit about the Bifrost Multibit recently, and I found this comment on Reddit quite notable (it's from four months ago):



			
				ttdpaco said:
			
		

> "The difference is that they don't recognize how bad the results are and heap praise on them."
> 
> Sorta. Lately (as in, sometime last year to the present,) more people on SBAF know and recognize that the Schiit dacs have very high noise floors compared to what they should have. Schiit cuts corners on the analog section (until recently,) and their filter apparently has that effect. However, because of how it sounds on the low end and the resolve people get from it, it ended up being a minor issue to people over there. Personally, that noise floor is why I couldn't bring myself to even get the Gugnir multibit, and, while I think the Mimby is a decent starting option for the kind of sound it does, I think the Mimby/Bimby are not great at all (as they have the worst background of any dac I've heard in that price range.)



While I don't like the CMA400i at all its background noise is at the very end I think and not remotely close to listening level, as well as much quieter. This is with Sonarworks' reduce volume to avoid clipping. If this was solely an environmental issue, anything but the DACs or amps themselves, you'd figure the background noise would be more consistent.


----------



## GrussGott (Jun 25, 2018)

rutter said:


> not remotely close to listening level, as well as much quieter.


 I like a little floor noise and my set up is 100% silent without input so it'll probably be years and $5000 before I give a shiit about a "black background".  If I cared I might go for soekris or metrum but I love that yggy sound so I probably have to go there next... Or PS Audio DSjr as both are upgradable and DSjr is just a firmware download away from being a new DAC... But I'll likely try the yggy first


----------



## AxelCloris

We've removed some off-topic and personal posts from the thread. Please keep the discussion within the Posting Guidelines. Thanks everyone.


----------



## Alcophone (Jun 27, 2018)

Looks like the Ebtech Hum X is being sold on Amazon.com for $69.50 right now (usually: $79.00)


----------



## the finisher

I found this quote about this guys experience interesting, and I know this from first hand experience.

First review on the page: https://www.amazon.com/Ebtech-Hum-Ground-Voltage-Filter/dp/B0002E4YI8

" The only solution (before this hum eliminator) I ever found was editing in a purpose-built / purpose-wired studio with expensive electrical precautions taken to ensure a clean electrical grid throughout the studio. "

Lots a gear around has always caused some issues for me, but I have none now.
My Jot performs as cleanly as the many reviews/measurements around the net indicate.

It has a low noise floor, and very low distortion. I love the little Jot.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

the black jot I have coming as a late fathers day gift (long story the other amp I ordered for him came on time but showed up broken and I couldn't get a replacement in time) will be here today and he said I can hang onto it till this weekend to do some listening and compare it to my older silver one im very curious to see if I hear any difference. im going to listen to both cold when first turned on and then after 24 hours of being left on.


----------



## FLTWS

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> the black jot I have coming as a late fathers day gift (long story the other amp I ordered for him came on time but showed up broken and I couldn't get a replacement in time) will be here today and he said I can hang onto it till this weekend to do some listening and compare it to my older silver one im very curious to see if I hear any difference. im going to listen to both cold when first turned on and then after 24 hours of being left on.



Interesting. I'd expect no difference in sound, but...

I do like the white lettering on the black finish (for all Schiit products), always felt it looked stylish as opposed to industrial / utilitarian, and easier to read.
But I don't have that many years left to wait for all my Schiit to show up in a black finish (and I like uniformity, when possible, appearance wise).
I'd still be waiting to acquire my first piece of Schiit, LOL!


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

i agree i would like to get all my stuff in black from them, i like the black finish way better personally but id want it all to match so ive been stuck with silver.


----------



## GrussGott

the finisher said:


> My Jot performs as cleanly as the many reviews/measurements around the net indicate.
> 
> It has a low noise floor, and very low distortion. I love the little Jot.



When I first investigated my EMI noise, I played with the line-in of a Bluetooth speaker (ue boom)... If you hold the line in TRS you get the exact loud hum I was getting when I touched the volume knob of the jot.   I probably should know why, but i'm guessing some type of antenna effect from closing a circuit, i. E., I'm wearing the headphones, through the jot, through the volume pot, back through me. 

So I figured (wrongly?) some type of grounding issue with EMI not being shunted to ground - it would be great to know why, but now after efforts from previous posts it's totally gone. 

BTW, where the heck is Nearfield?


----------



## the finisher (Jun 27, 2018)

It's where I'm sitting right now, I do about 75% of my listening on speakers 









Th3Drizzl3 said:


> the black jot I have coming as a late fathers day gift (long story the other amp I ordered for him came on time but showed up broken and I couldn't get a replacement in time) will be here today and he said I can hang onto it till this weekend to do some listening and compare it to my older silver one im very curious to see if I hear any difference. im going to listen to both cold when first turned on and then after 24 hours of being left on.



I have one of the newer black Jot's, interested in your findings.

My only bitch about the Jot is a bit of channel imbalance just off the bottom it's below a level that I would ever listen, I only notice on HP's.
In Jude's initial review he specifically said there was none of that, even with sensitive IEM's.
Mine is not like that, but perfect otherwise.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

my silver one has the tiniest bit of imbalance but only at the very lowest of volume on the dial once I up even a bit it evens out. ill test the black one soon. my wife told me fedex literally opened our front lanai screen door and tossed the box at the front door which is like 15 ft away i'm very pissed i'm on the way home to check the contents now.


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## the finisher (Jun 27, 2018)

I think this is normal, Jude just got a golden volume pot. 

I have no real issue with this.

Wow, those idiots I just had to reship a portable AC cause UPS dropped it out the back of the truck!


----------



## Dnguyen926

A quick question for all the Jot owners out there. Has anyone tried preamping the Jot with a tube amp or the Saga? I love my Jot but sometimes it can be a little too much and I heard that the Jot paired with the Saga is a pretty good combo. While I also heard that the Saga was pretty neutral because it's just a preamp therefore it shouldn't change the signature of the Jot. So, would it be a good ideal to actually preamp the Jot with a tube hybrid or tube amp to tone it down and give its signature a bit of that tubey goodness?


----------



## Tuneslover

Dnguyen926 said:


> A quick question for all the Jot owners out there. Has anyone tried preamping the Jot with a tube amp or the Saga? I love my Jot but sometimes it can be a little too much and I heard that the Jot paired with the Saga is a pretty good combo. While I also heard that the Saga was pretty neutral because it's just a preamp therefore it shouldn't change the signature of the Jot. So, would it be a good ideal to actually preamp the Jot with a tube hybrid or tube amp to tone it down and give its signature a bit of that tubey goodness?



I used my Vali 2 as a preamp for my Jot a while back but I didn't care for it because it changed the sound of the Jot too much.  Perhaps I would have preferred the Saga but the bottom line is that I like my Jot just the way it is.  Experimenting is fun though.


----------



## GrussGott

Dnguyen926 said:


> A quick question for all the Jot owners out there. Has anyone tried preamping the Jot with a tube amp or the Saga? I love my Jot but sometimes it can be a little too much and I heard that the Jot paired with the Saga is a pretty good combo. While I also heard that the Saga was pretty neutral because it's just a preamp therefore it shouldn't change the signature of the Jot. So, would it be a good ideal to actually preamp the Jot with a tube hybrid or tube amp to tone it down and give its signature a bit of that tubey goodness?



I've considered going the "sagenheim" route as well, but after release of the Lyr 3, I think I'd just go that route, or maybe a Project Ember or Horizon as it's the same price (a bit more for the lyr) and you get more options.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3 (Jun 30, 2018)

so the black jot is here and he is picking it up from me on Monday so I have two days of back and forth to compare old to new. just from my first 30 mins I am almost positive this much newer one is almost a bit more "polite" then my old one. I'm going to take lots of notes tomm and get a good solid few hours in but unless I'm crazy it does actually sound a bit smoother up top I have a good few pairs to test with that are brighter headphones. ill also note the black one has a small amount of imbalance also actually a hair more then the silver one which was Interesting to me.


----------



## the finisher

Well your observations about the volume pot don't surprise me. I still don't care as I will never use IEM with this amp.

If your observations are true I feel a bit vindicated on my opinion of the smoothness I hear in my Jot.
I'll mention again, I never turn it off. And the Focals are a unforgiving tool of a speaker.


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## Th3Drizzl3 (Jul 2, 2018)

so i spent just about 3 hours tonight going back and forth to finish my thoughts up there were 6 different headphones used for the listening. i did both a "cold" test yesterday from a turned off state both amps freshly turned on and then i left them both on overnight and listened again tonight. with the two amps i have here there IS a difference both cold and warmed up. the silver one just seemed more "solid state". its a bit colder up top more sterile in a way, brighter (not by a ton) and a bit more in your face. the black one was just a bit less "solid state" it was a bit more polite, highs were just a bit more mellow. one weird thing is it seemed more spacious. hard to put into words exactly. like there was a bit more depth. now when both warmed up for the night and most of day two the differences were less BUT still there. note my silver one is from just a couple months after they introduced the amp. i was correct the imbalance is a bit more on the black one. i went ahead and thought maybe there was a difference inside. so i opened both. i dont see any difference. layout is the same board rev and model is the same. so why the difference?? im wondering if possibly the parts sourced possibly have changed slightly. now what i mean is not that they are using different parts but possibly a variance right from those manufactures. like when they say +- 5% etc maybe tighter or looser tolerance? or even in the actual boards who knows. but i can say for sure at least with the two i have here there is a sound difference. now had i not heard both i would have liked either, but im going to actually now find a new silver one and compare to the old silver one being curious.


----------



## the finisher




----------



## ToTo Man

I don't know if this is the right thread to post this on, but if there are any Jot owners who have blown the amp's output stage could you please contact me by PM.  My unit is currently at ElectromodUK awaiting repair, so I'm now down to just the one headphone amp, and as I'm unsure if the fault was user-inflicted I'd welcome other owners advice/experiences so that I can hopefully avoid the same problem in the future.  Thanks in advance.


----------



## ToTo Man

On second thoughts maybe I should post it here as it might help others avoid the same problem:

My Jotunheim headphone amp is with the repairer just now and the diagnosis isn't good. Resistors in the output stage, along with the output stage itself are all toasted, so a complete new board will need to be ordered in and installed.

I'm not quite sure how it happened TBH, but the repairer suspects dodgy wiring either in the headphones or headphone extension cable I was using at the time the fault occurred.

Let me run through the chain of events:

- I bought the used Jot in April and worked fine until the day I toasted it.

- In May I had a 6.3mm male to 6.3mm female single-ended extension cable and a 4XLR male to 4XLR female balanced extension cable made to order, to allow me to more easily connect/disconnect my headphones.

- I mainly use the amp's 4XLR output, so the 4XLR extension cable gets the most use. However I do use the 6.3mm extension cable with my Focal Utopia, and I also tried the Audio Technica ATH-ADX5000 on it, and there were no problems with either.

- Last week I got a pair of Sennheiser HD660S on home demo. Played them for a few hours on the Jotunheim via the 6.3mm single ended extension cable, no obvious problems. Did the same the next day, again no obvious problems. Played them for longer on day 3 but didn't actually listen to them as they played, just left them to 'burn in' whilst I went about my other business. Came back later that evening and found that my metaphorical 'burning in' the headphones was literally burning out my headphone amp! I'm embarrassed to admit it took me a further hour to realise this, as I initially thought the antiseptic/chemical odour was wafting in from outdoors (I had the windows open at the time). Once I realised it was the amp I powered it off straight away, but the damage had obviously long been done by then. The entire chassis of the amp was too hot to keep your hand on for more than a couple of seconds.

As I said above, the amp is currently with its repairer. However I am still in possession of the headphones and my extension cable, which I am understandably hesitant to connect to my other headphone amp in case I end up toasting that too!

I'd be grateful for advice on how to troubleshoot the source of problem. e.g. is there a way to test the wiring of my extension cable with a basic multimeter to see if there's a short somewhere? I've unscrewed the female REAN 6.3mm socket covering to visually inspect the wiring but it's smothered in so much hot melt glue it's difficult to the connections properly.


----------



## sup27606 (Jul 2, 2018)

ToTo Man said:


> On second thoughts maybe I should post it here as it might help others avoid the same problem:
> 
> My Jotunheim headphone amp is with the repairer just now and the diagnosis isn't good. Resistors in the output stage, along with the output stage itself are all toasted, so a complete new board will need to be ordered in and installed.
> 
> ...




Sorry for what happened. Looks like, your 6.3 mm extension cable female end had a loose connection from bad soldering. It worked for a while and then dislodged and shorted the other wire while you were away. I suspect its the female end, because if it was the male end, you will see melting there instead. You were lucky there wasn't a fire in your room. Unfortunately, there is no protection in the amp (don't know of any amp that does) for drawing excessive current. However, I am not an expert.

Jot's output impedance is pretty low (<0.1 ohms), which would have helped with the overheating.


----------



## ToTo Man

sup27606 said:


> Sorry for what happened. Looks like, your 6.3 mm extension cable female end had a loose connection from bad soldering. It worked for a while and then dislodged and shorted the other wire while you were away. I suspect its the female end, because if it was the male end, you will see melting there instead. You were lucky there wasn't a fire in your room. Unfortunately, there is no protection in the amp (don't know of any amp that does) for drawing excessive current. However, I am not an expert.
> 
> Jot's output impedance is pretty low (<0.1 ohms), which would have helped with the overheating.



I suppose a loose connection in my 6.3mm extension cable is possible, but I think it's unlikely, because having unscrewed the metal REAN jacket on the female end and inspected the wiring, the solder connections are all solid and are held firmly in place with hot melt glue.


----------



## the finisher

This is curious, will you ever find the cause?


----------



## sup27606 (Jul 3, 2018)

ToTo Man said:


> I suppose a loose connection in my 6.3mm extension cable is possible, but I think it's unlikely, because having unscrewed the metal REAN jacket on the female end and inspected the wiring, the solder connections are all solid and are held firmly in place with hot melt glue.



Hmmm... that’s interesting. If you see the melting occurred only at the female end and not at the male end, or in the headphone cable itself (I assume your headphones are working fine), it suggests that this was the point of shorting which could have caused an arc leading to the melting. Besides a loose connection, another possibility is, the soldering was so thick in the three wires, that one of them ended up touching the other causing the shorting, or a piece of solder broke loose creating a connection. Just a guess.

Perhaps you can post a picture of the melted connector so that people who have experience can come up with something? There’s also a dedicated DIY forum where you can ask to get more help.


----------



## ToTo Man

sup27606 said:


> Hmmm... that’s interesting. If you see the melting occurred only at the female end and not at the male end, or in the headphone cable itself (I assume your headphones are working fine), it suggests that this was the point of shorting which could have caused an arc leading to the melting. Besides a loose connection, another possibility is, the soldering was so thick in the three wires, that one of them ended up touching the other causing the shorting, or a piece of solder broke loose creating a connection. Just a guess.
> 
> Perhaps you can post a picture of the melted connector so that people who have experience can come up with something? There’s also a dedicated DIY forum where you can ask to get more help.



No problem, I'll try uploading a pic tomorrow.  BTW there's no melting on any of the connectors, apologies if I gave that impression.


----------



## sup27606

Dnguyen926 said:


> A quick question for all the Jot owners out there. Has anyone tried preamping the Jot with a tube amp or the Saga? I love my Jot but sometimes it can be a little too much and I heard that the Jot paired with the Saga is a pretty good combo. While I also heard that the Saga was pretty neutral because it's just a preamp therefore it shouldn't change the signature of the Jot. So, would it be a good ideal to actually preamp the Jot with a tube hybrid or tube amp to tone it down and give its signature a bit of that tubey goodness?



Why not use the tube amp directly instead of feeding into jot? More amps in the audio path means potentially more distortion. Alternatively, if you want to tone down the treble, IMO a cleaner way would be to use the loki.


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## sup27606 (Jul 3, 2018)

ToTo Man said:


> No problem, I'll try uploading a pic tomorrow.  BTW there's no melting on any of the connectors, apologies if I gave that impression.



Ok. Since you mentioned about melted hot glue on the connector, I misunderstood. Grab a multimeter if you can and test for continuity between the connectors at each end (there shouldn’t be any). That may help you to pinpoint which of the wires could have shorted.


----------



## 565hunter

sup27606 said:


> Ok. Since you mentioned about melted hot glue on the connector, I misunderstood. Grab a multimeter if you can and test for continuity between the connectors at each end (there shouldn’t be any). That may help you to pinpoint which of the wires could have shorted.


Also let us know if the headphones are working correctly, even if you have to use a single ended cable. Make sure you test for continuity without cables being connected to anything. Test both your extension cable and the headphone cable. 
Except for brief moments, my Jot has been powered up for almost a year with no problems.


----------



## dr cornelius

the finisher said:


> Well your observations about the volume pot don't surprise me. I still don't care as I will never use IEM with this amp.
> 
> If your observations are true I feel a bit vindicated on my opinion of the smoothness I hear in my Jot.
> I'll mention again, I never turn it off. And the Focals are a unforgiving tool of a speaker.



A friend of mine mixes on those Focals - _great_ sounding monitors.  I’m not surprised they work well with a Jot - IMO Jot’s are great with pro near-fields...


----------



## the finisher

dr cornelius said:


> A friend of mine mixes on those Focals - _great_ sounding monitors.  I’m not surprised they work well with a Jot - IMO Jot’s are great with pro near-fields...



Part of why I bought them is to mix my own electronic music and drums, I'm a drummer. Building a studio in my basement with all the acoustic treatments and such this winter.
But if they weren't good for casual listening I would have sent them back, I'll probably never part with them.


----------



## dr cornelius

the finisher said:


> Part of why I bought them is to mix my own electronic music and drums, I'm a drummer. Building a studio in my basement with all the acoustic treatments and such this winter.
> But if they weren't good for casual listening I would have sent them back, I'll probably never part with them.



Home studio - that sounds cool.  My friend that I mentioned is a pro drummer, I play too, but definitely not at his level!  Post some music when your studio is up and running!


----------



## the finisher

Sure thing, when It's good enough to share.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Montage8--yamaha-montage-8

I'll be needing 1 of these first, + some other important gear, this is a long term goal.


----------



## dr cornelius

Yeah, it takes a while to build everything up - lots of gear to acquire...


----------



## Dnguyen926

GrussGott said:


> I've considered going the "sagenheim" route as well, but after release of the Lyr 3, I think I'd just go that route, or maybe a Project Ember or Horizon as it's the same price (a bit more for the lyr) and you get more options.





Tuneslover said:


> I used my Vali 2 as a preamp for my Jot a while back but I didn't care for it because it changed the sound of the Jot too much.  Perhaps I would have preferred the Saga but the bottom line is that I like my Jot just the way it is.  Experimenting is fun though.



I agree with you guys on this. After careful consideration I decided to just sell my Jot and moved on. It's not worth preamping into the Jot, especially with all the options out there. If you like it you like it if you don't then you just gotta move on ):


----------



## GrussGott (Jul 6, 2018)

_cross-posted from the forum that shall not be named:_
I've been dicking around with mid-fi stuff for about 2 years (like the mojo, etc) and bought and returned a lot of stuff.  In reading reviews / posts I've perceived this "musical" experience others are having, but I wasn't ... and I wasn't sure if it's the gear, my ears, or my head.

Anyway, TLDR - the Jot setup I have now could be endgame for me because it's finally to the point where the music is emotional again: I can FEEL the kick drum or, with just a tad suspension of disbelief, believe Lou Reed is right in front of me.  I don't know what others mean by "euphonic", but for me this is it.  (of course I'll make sure by purchasing ever more spendy hi-fi gear, but whatever, let's stay on topic as i'm trying to make a point here).

*(1.) Nice set of cans*
The key was first getting the right headphones _for me _which are the TH-x00 and to a certain extent the HD-600 which I kind of use as a reference; everything sounds "better" on the HD-600s, but it's not as musical as the TH-x00.  It can depend on the track and blah blah blah, but in general the Fostex are my jam-cans.  I tried the AFC, 650s, B&W P9s, and lots of other sub-$1k cans and learned a lot, but those two are my keepers.

(*2.) Make 'em bounce*
The next thing was getting the right DAC/amp.  I'll skip the details, but eventually I settled on the Mimby / Jotunheim.

*(3.) Strap 'em in!*
It wasn't until I added the Eitr _*AND *_good cables that the magic happened.  At first I went with "cables don't matter", then "sort of, but not with my mid-fi stuff", then "feck it, I think cables matter.  a lot."  And at that point I added Audioquest golden gate RCAs, cinnamon spdif, and carbon USB.  To be clear (pun intended), I tried a lot of cables.  I tried flipping them around.  I tried DBTs.  Cable matter - if they don't for you, that's cool, but they sure do for me _(please use the "science" forums for technical pontifications in disagreement - also note all spendy cables had min 30 day return policies and I did return some spendier cables, so there's no risk to trying them)_.  And it's weird because when I critically listen it's not a huge thing, but when I emotionally listen it's a huge thing.  It wasn't until the AQs were in place that I realized, "holy schiit.  this could be end-game right here.  I don't even need an yggy or whatever!"  (note: I'm totally still getting an yggy.  let's not be unrealistic here).  Final bit of "synergy"?  I dunno.

Here are songs that proved to me - the kind of tracks that you think, "holy Schiit, THIS.  THIS."

Crank it up.

- *Perfect Day*, Lou Reed - classic, intimate track to get things started
*- My oh My,* Punch Brothers - damn son_!  _You'll forget you're not actually in the band by the end of this track
*- Hot Butter,* Nathy Peluso - holy sub-bass _something_ just melted
*- Big God*, Florence + Machine - My wife for sure can never listen to this track, she's pissed enough
*- Hit 'em Up Style*, Carolina Chocolate Drops - this blue grass / folk remake of Blu Cantrell is awesome on youtube, watching the violin bowstring hair fry off, and this chick at 3m+ just blasts
*- Tangerine*, Rebecca Pidgeon - grab a cocktail, your best ascot, and watch the sunset
*- Empty Temples*, The Sword (Low Country) - pull up a hay bail to the fire, bring your guitar, and get ready to play melody
*- Divine Moments of Truth*, Shpongle - closest thing to a mushroom trip without mushrooms.  By 30s you're hearing colors, and by 2m don't look at anybody!  Snakes will crawl out of their eye sockets.  I warned you.
*- In the Mix (orig mix),* Funk the Beat  - turn out all the lights and grab a flashlight to jump around with but be careful - there's no predicting what your ass is gonna do with this track
- *Last Night in Los Feliz*, Niia - this chick will sing right through you on this track

*Bonus track:*
Back in the early 90s I was in NorCal and on Sunday mornings I used to go down to the ferry building area and there were these bleachers by the water and random people would show up with whatever instruments and just jam for hours.  But always people with bongos. This track reminds me of that, and with the right system - whoa.

*- Sangandongo*, Niagra

MBP > Tidal Hi-Fi > AQ carbon > Eitr > AQ Cinnamon > Mimby > AQ Golden Gate > Jot > SE TH-x00 or Bal HD-600

More headphones coming, but not needed


----------



## Tuneslover (Jul 6, 2018)

GrussGott said:


> _cross-posted from the forum that shall not be named:_
> I've been dicking around with mid-fi stuff for about 2 years (like the mojo, etc) and bought and returned a lot of stuff.  In reading reviews / posts I've perceived this "musical" experience others are having, but I wasn't ... and I wasn't sure if it's the gear, my ears, or my head.
> 
> Anyway, TLDR - the Jot setup I have now could be endgame for me because it's finally to the point where the music is emotional again: I can FEEL the kick drum or, with just a tad suspension of disbelief, believe Lou Reed is right in front of me.  I don't know what others mean by "euphonic", but for me this is it.  (of course I'll make sure by purchasing ever more spendy hi-fi gear, but whatever, let's stay on topic as i'm trying to make a point here).
> ...





GrussGott said:


> _cross-posted from the forum that shall not be named:_
> I've been dicking around with mid-fi stuff for about 2 years (like the mojo, etc) and bought and returned a lot of stuff.  In reading reviews / posts I've perceived this "musical" experience others are having, but I wasn't ... and I wasn't sure if it's the gear, my ears, or my head.
> 
> Anyway, TLDR - the Jot setup I have now could be endgame for me because it's finally to the point where the music is emotional again: I can FEEL the kick drum or, with just a tad suspension of disbelief, believe Lou Reed is right in front of me.  I don't know what others mean by "euphonic", but for me this is it.  (of course I'll make sure by purchasing ever more spendy hi-fi gear, but whatever, let's stay on topic as i'm trying to make a point here).
> ...



You sound like me trying to get that elusive "that's it" sound by trying this, then trying that.  Glad to hear that you've achieved it.  I've had and lost and re-found those aha moments with my Schiit DACs (2 Mimby's and 1 Bimby).  Confusing as hell why those "perfect sound" moments come and go but for the last several months it's remained there...hopefully I don't jinx it now.

Yesterday I had probably one of my personal best definitive aha moments that came from the new Massdrop HD58X headphone.  When I received it I immediately connected them to one of my systems and ran non stop for 2 straight days.  Last night I decided to give them a brief audition.  Turned out I ended up listening to them on all 3 of my headphone setups for 4+ hours only calling it quits when I kept nodding off at 1 am.  What really got me was that these headphones sounded amazing on all 3 of my headphone setups.  Aha indeed.


----------



## Alcophone

I wanted to follow up on the noise issues when touching the volume knob at high volume, with only the power cord and a pair of headphones connected, gain set to high and the single ended inputs selected. I have experimented quite a bit when I had the Audioquest Niagara 1000 power conditioner on loan. I tried that one, the Furman PST-8 and a voltage transformer with both input and output voltage set to 120 V. No matter what I tried, the noise was the same, heavily influenced by whether I had my Surface Pro 4's power supply plugged in or not. I noticed that I'm even getting the noise when merely holding my hand above the Jotunheim, without even touching it. To me it seems that my body is picking up the noise, getting grounded through the Jotunheim in a way that affects its signal path, i.e. the noise is coming from me and gets amplified by the Jotunheim as it would amplify any other signal. If I have a better path to ground by touching the side of the Jotunheim's case with my other hand, or any other device with a metallic case that is plugged in and thus grounded, the noise goes away. Obviously, no power conditioner can help with that.

How much that has to do with @rutter's original noise issues, I don't know. Might be interesting to see what happens if the Jotunheim is placed in a Faraday cage ^^


----------



## areek

My dad made an order today at schiit website for the jotunheI'm. We are from bangladesh and my dad is visiting USA next week. He used his credit card for purchase but apparently schiit has cancelled the order saying thwy think it is fraudulent activity.
Our country does not have paypal.  What can be done?


----------



## rkw

areek said:


> My dad made an order today at schiit website for the jotunheI'm. We are from bangladesh and my dad is visiting USA next week. He used his credit card for purchase but apparently schiit has cancelled the order saying thwy think it is fraudulent activity.
> Our country does not have paypal.  What can be done?


Email them (orders@schiit.com) and tell them exactly what you've said here. They will tell you what they can do. Was he having it shipped to a US address or picking it up directly from Schiit?


----------



## the finisher (Jul 6, 2018)

GrussGott said:


> _cross-posted from the forum that shall not be named:_
> I've been dicking around with mid-fi stuff for about 2 years (like the mojo, etc) and bought and returned a lot of stuff.  In reading reviews / posts I've perceived this "musical" experience others are having, but I wasn't ... and I wasn't sure if it's the gear, my ears, or my head.
> 
> Anyway, TLDR - the Jot setup I have now could be endgame for me because it's finally to the point where the music is emotional again: I can FEEL the kick drum or, with just a tad suspension of disbelief, believe Lou Reed is right in front of me.  I don't know what others mean by "euphonic", but for me this is it.  (of course I'll make sure by purchasing ever more spendy hi-fi gear, but whatever, let's stay on topic as i'm trying to make a point here).
> ...



Nice post, great music, glad you are enjoying your system.


----------



## GrussGott (Jul 6, 2018)

Alcophone said:


> I wanted to follow up on the noise issues when touching the volume knob at high volume, with only the power cord and a pair of headphones connected, gain set to high and the single ended inputs selected. I have experimented quite a bit when I had the Audioquest Niagara 1000 power conditioner on loan.



That's good info, I've been looking at the Furman PST-8 ...

Anyway, as previously posted I had your EXACT same issue, exact same symptoms.  I'm assuming you've tried plugging your Jot directly into the wall with a high quality shielded power cord? 

Here's my general troubleshooting strategy (which could be complete crap):

*(1.) Do I have "hum" *(low pitch) *or "buzz"* (high pitch)?

*(2.) If it's buzz *(like super loud mosquitos), *then it's usually a ground loop* which means the ground planes of your different devices (amp and dac likely) are at separate potentials.  This where you can use cheater plugs to identify it because you're disconnecting from the AC wall socket ground with the cheater plug, but I wouldn't recommend that as a permanent solution

*(3.) If it's hum, it's likely because you're close to a transformer that's radiating EMI *which is getting into your inputs

In both of those cases I think YOU can be the input vector of the EMI or the change in ground plane potential by acting as an antenna - that's why I went with a high quality shielded power cable and interconnects: you want to keep the EMI from getting into the inputs.  Then I plugged the Jot directly into its own wall socket and the digital side into a power strip and different wall socket on it's own circuit (i found two sockets on separate circuits close enough together to make this work).  That killed all hum.

Unfortunately, IME, you have to just play around with different wall sockets to find what works, but my general recommendations are: high quality shielded power cord and interconnects, amp into it's own socket on it's own circuit if possible, digital into a separate circuit.  I thought the PST-8 had that separation BTW ... in any event, my guess is your hum isn't from the wall, but from a nearby transformer radiating EMI into your system ... but I'm just makin crap up based on various experiments.


----------



## Alcophone

GrussGott said:


> That's good info, I've been looking at the Furman PST-8 ...



It's probably a great surge protector, which is why have two of them, and a PST-8D. But I'm not convinced by its power conditioning abilities.



GrussGott said:


> Anyway, as previously posted I had your EXACT same issue, exact same symptoms.  I'm assuming you've tried plugging your Jot directly into the wall with a high quality shielded power cord?



Not really, I don't think I have a single shielded power cord. Mouser.com lists the 14 AWG Tripp-Lite cords I have, but filters them out when I select "shielded". Only a 2 m and 3 m long Volex cord remain (when looking for 14 AWG as well), but looking on their website, there's no indication that they actually are shielded. I now reached out to both Tripp-Lite and Volex to find out which of these is shielded.
Of course, once you go into audio specific power cords, there are quite a few shielded ones available, but also at higher prices. I couldn't hear a difference between a $10 Tripp-Lite power cord and a $750 Audioquest Thunder power cord, so I'm not eager to spend a lot more just to get shielding. Of course I'm still tempted by Pangea power cords... but they seem almost too cheap compared to the competition, and their talk of separate bass conductors makes me very skeptical.



GrussGott said:


> In both of those cases I think YOU can be the input vector of the EMI or the change in ground plane potential by acting as an antenna - that's why I went with a high quality shielded power cable and interconnects: you want to keep the EMI from getting into the inputs.



But for this particular issue, the noise seems to be coming from me, so I guess *I* would have to be shielded, not my power cords. Maybe I should try wrapping myself in aluminum foil :-D
I do admit that I could try even more, though, like different outlets. To be continued, I suppose :-D Luckily this is not an issue I have in actual use. There is a faint buzz on max volume even when not touching the amp, but all of my headphones are way to efficient to require going past 12 o'clock - even that would be high.



GrussGott said:


> my general recommendations are: high quality shielded power cord and interconnects, amp into it's own socket on it's own circuit if possible, digital into a separate circuit.



In general, certainly sound advice. I was happy to see that the Kabeldirekt RCA interconnects I normally use have dual shielding.



GrussGott said:


> I thought the PST-8 had that separation BTW ...



The PST-8D (not the PST-8) claims to have that, but that clearly didn't make a difference at all here. Which is not the least bit surprising if indeed I'm injecting the noise by touching the Jotunheim. No shielded power cord or power isolation can prevent my laptop's power supply from emitting a field and my body from absorbing it.


----------



## areek

rkw said:


> Email them (orders@schiit.com) and tell them exactly what you've said here. They will tell you what they can do. Was he having it shipped to a US address or picking it up directly from Schiit?


shipped to the usa. he will be travelling so it was supposed to be shipped to a us address.


----------



## the finisher (Jul 6, 2018)

Alcophone said:


> It's probably a great surge protector, which is why have two of them, and a PST-8D. But I'm not convinced by its power conditioning abilities.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




If you don't mind spending a bit more than Pangea. https://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/analysis-plus-pro-power-oval-power-cable


Wrap the power brick in foil.


----------



## the finisher (Jul 6, 2018)

areek said:


> shipped to the usa. he will be travelling so it was supposed to be shipped to a us address.



Contact them, different shipping address from a credit card address is a red flag.


----------



## the finisher

@Alcophone  Don't wrap it tightly, should not be necessary, aluminum conducts heat well so should be ok


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

so ill have a brand new silver version to compare with both my old silver one and the newer black one next weekend. i found a local person i know who got his newer silver jot about 3 weeks ago and is letting me borrow it so i can sit and compare all three to see whats up.


----------



## GrussGott (Jul 7, 2018)

Alcophone said:


> Of course I'm still tempted by Pangea power cords...
> In general, certainly sound advice. I was happy to see that the Kabeldirekt RCA interconnects I normally use have dual shielding.



Well, there's a bit of a trick with the cable shielding - it's very easy to claim "99% shielded" ... what that doesn't tell you is how much EMI is actually getting in (which can be 60% or more).  Further, most cheaper cables don't shield the connectors.  Ultimately this is why I just went with AQ interconnects: any reputable dealer gives you 60 days in-home trial and Amazon is at least 30 depending on the vendor.  I did see the engineering specs for a few of AQ's cables; they're insanely spec'd.  These aren't just some off the shelf wire with some connectors, they're 100% in-house spec'd, built, and tested. (btw, I have zero relationship AQ, just a happy customer).  Blue jeans cables were fine too, I just liked the AQ better.

What you might try is a cheap EMF detector from home depot or similar as they're like $20 and you can find how much EMI your power cables and other stuff is throwing off - it'll tell you right away how shielded your power cord is.

What I did was created the simplest set up:

(1.) macbook streaming flac all networking off and on battery power
(2.) usb cable
(3.) mimby
(4.) rca interconnect
(5.) Jot into balanced hd600

and then I moved all over the house trying different sockets.  The first time I tried with just the jot and mimby plugged in, no hum, so then it was matter of slowly building out to find the culprit.

You can try these PS Audio Links too:
How to find and fix hum
hum extended
grounding best practices


----------



## PointyFox

Just got a Jotunheim that buzzes and hums at higher volumes. Touching the volume knob decreases the noise. Makes the noise with the USB detached too, so I think it's coming over the power cord. Will replace it with a fancy TrippLite on Sunday to see if it helps.


----------



## GrussGott (Jul 7, 2018)

"_With all inputs disconnected, no hum whatsoever at full volume, high gain. With my current inputs (relatively cheap RCA cables), power hum becomes noticeable at 1 pm on the volume knob. *Update*: The problem was the crossing between the stock power cable and the RCA cables. When I used instead a fancy Shunyata Venom power cable, hum disappeared to 4pm on the volume knob. When I raised the RCA cables 3in above the fancy cable, zero hum at top volume. I had gotten so used to the common-mode rejection of balanced interconnects that I had got sloppy with cable crossings."
_
Forgot to mention that I also NEVER cross cables and don't stack the digital stuff on the analog stuff.  If you're facing the front of my amp, the power cord runs out the back left and away from everything.  To the right of the amp 6" away, facing to the right, is the mimby.  The RCAs are looped to minimum length and velcro wrapped so they touch nothing, coming out of the back of the Jot as far as possible from the power cord.  The Eitr is sitting on top of the mimby with the back facing me, so 90^ to mimby and 180^ to the Jot.  The spdif is also looped to minimum length, velcro wrapped, and touching nothing.  The USB cable runs straight out of the Eitr (with the back and USB port facing me) to my laptop, as does the headphone cable from the Jot.

TLDR: don't cross the streams.  It's bad.  Very bad.


----------



## Tuneslover

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> so ill have a brand new silver version to compare with both my old silver one and the newer black one next weekend. i found a local person i know who got his newer silver jot about 3 weeks ago and is letting me borrow it so i can sit and compare all three to see whats up.



I'll be looking forward to hearing what you find.


----------



## Tuneslover

I purchased my Jot shortly after it was released and I have been reading this thread from the start and to the best of my recollection I don't recall too much discussion about this hum/buzz noise that seems to be discussed now.  I am of the opinion that good quality cables are necessary to not only maximize the quality of sound but also minimize the effect of electrical interference.  I have been a long time user of AQ cables (no affiliation, just a satisfied customer) on all of my setups because they are well designed and constructed and aren't over-the-top expensive.  In addition, all of my equipment (on every system) is plugged into a decent quality surge protector that I'm sure is contributing to my successful results, however my main motivation is to protect my equipment in case of power surges or drops.

I should mention that my Jot is strictly an amp, in other words no DAC or PHONO module.  I use a separate standalone Bimby DAC with my Jot.  Also, my primary source is a FiiO X5ii using it's coaxial output into the Bimby.  I also use the toslink input from my satellite receiver for TV viewing.  I have no need for USB on any of my setups except for my iMac setup where I occasionally will rotate one of Mimby's into that setup using an AudioQuest Carbon USB interconnect.  No interference or noise issues on that setup either.  Final note, my Bimby and Mimby's don't have any current generation USB versions, nor do I use WYRD or EITR.

I assume you folks experiencing these issues have been in contact with Schiit in order to get their advice and assistance.  Good luck all.


----------



## hikaru12

So I've finally had time to give the Jot some more impressions. I have the Jot and Gumby located directly next to my computer now and for whatever reason being closer and not stacked on top of each other seemed to really help with the heat, and some detail and instrument separation. Probably coincidence. I've basically changed my stance on the value of the Jot - I think it's a great value and could hit harder than a lot of solid state amps for it's versatility and shear power. At full 12, 1 o' clock with FLAC beat files from one of my favorite DnB artists who also samples really smooth melodies from Brazilian and crate loops from old Hip-Hop records, I just love it. The Jot is able to present a lot of detail, including reverbs very naturally but quickly. It's not as much when you have a holographic space provided by tubes but I honestly think when it's fully warmed up, paired with warm cans and with the Gumby it's maxing out what I can do with this combination. The Jot is just incredibly dynamic and when volume matched well with your music you can control the bass while still having a real enjoyable experience that will bring a smile to your face. Fully balanced is really the best way to enjoy the Jot imo otherwise you're missing out on it's full capabilities.


----------



## Sonic Defender

hikaru12 said:


> So I've finally had time to give the Jot some more impressions. I have the Jot and Gumby located directly next to my computer now and for whatever reason being closer and not stacked on top of each other seemed to really help with the heat, and some detail and instrument separation. Probably coincidence. I've basically changed my stance on the value of the Jot - I think it's a great value and could hit harder than a lot of solid state amps for it's versatility and shear power. At full 12, 1 o' clock with FLAC beat files from one of my favorite DnB artists who also samples really smooth melodies from Brazilian and crate loops from old Hip-Hop records, I just love it. The Jot is able to present a lot of detail, including reverbs very naturally but quickly. It's not as much when you have a holographic space provided by tubes but I honestly think when it's fully warmed up, paired with warm cans and with the Gumby it's maxing out what I can do with this combination. The Jot is just incredibly dynamic and when volume matched well with your music you can control the bass while still having a real enjoyable experience that will bring a smile to your face. Fully balanced is really the best way to enjoy the Jot imo otherwise you're missing out on it's full capabilities.


Which DnB artist is that, sounds like something I would enjoy.


----------



## hikaru12

Sonic Defender said:


> Which DnB artist is that, sounds like something I would enjoy.



Ethereal Universe/Dj Razzie/MagiCXBeats - any of those guys are pretty sweet


----------



## Sonic Defender

hikaru12 said:


> Ethereal Universe/Dj Razzie/MagiCXBeats - any of those guys are pretty sweet


Awesome, thanks. I love trying new electronica artists. Really love well done sampled music. It can be so compelling. Feel free to shoot me a PM if you have other recommendations mate. Thanks.


----------



## kingofzero

Does anyone know if they have any plans for a Toslink DAC module?


----------



## Kamurah

kingofzero said:


> Does anyone know if they have any plans for a Toslink DAC module?



I could be mistaken, but I don't think the design would be easy to implement for them.  If you look at the offerings they have now, none are powered by the internal board.  I don't know if there is a power connection internally that they could utilize and would allow a Toslink module to function without another (external) power supply.

Happy to be wrong, because I would buy that module in a second.


----------



## Audiofiend1

Trying to decide between getting the Jot with Multibit Dac, an Senn HDV800, or a CMA600i. Any suggestions between these three picks guys? I will be listening with HD800s, LCD-2, HE-560, V Moda-100's and a few other cans.


----------



## RickB

Audiofiend1 said:


> Trying to decide between getting the Jot with Multibit Dac, an Senn HDV800, or a CMA600i. Any suggestions between these three picks guys? I will be listening with HD800s, LCD-2, HE-560, V Moda-100's and a few other cans.



HD800 may be too bright with Jot, though I've never tried it.


----------



## the finisher

Audiofiend1 said:


> Trying to decide between getting the Jot with Multibit Dac, an Senn HDV800, or a CMA600i. Any suggestions between these three picks guys? I will be listening with HD800s, LCD-2, HE-560, V Moda-100's and a few other cans.


LCD-2 should do well, I'd go multibit personally.


----------



## PointyFox

My Jotunheim is buzzing around 12 o'clock and louder on input 1. Inputs 2 and 3 with nothing connected produce much louder buzzing. 
Unplugging the USB cable doesn't change the buzz.
Different outlets produce different types of buzz.
Plugging into a power isolator doesn't affect the buzz.
The buzzing increases in volume when I touch the volume knob.
The buzzing decreases in volume when I touch the enclosure.

Any ideas?


----------



## the finisher

Wow, another one, I am going to try and make my perfectly silent Jot misbehave. I'll let you all know.
It's a newer black one.


----------



## GrussGott

PointyFox said:


> My Jotunheim is buzzing around 12 o'clock and louder on input 1. Inputs 2 and 3 with nothing connected produce much louder buzzing.
> Unplugging the USB cable doesn't change the buzz.
> Different outlets produce different types of buzz.
> Plugging into a power isolator doesn't affect the buzz.
> ...



(1.) disconnect all inputs and outputs except your headphones
(2.) move to a different side of the house and ideally find an outlet on it's own circuit/breaker and/or unplug everything from that circuit except the Jot - stay as far as possible from anything with a transformer like computers, TVs, appliances, etc
(3.) Plug in the jot and extend the power cord to its full length out the back and to the left away from all of the inputs, like this
\
[ jot ]
you

Still hear the buzz?


----------



## PointyFox (Jul 8, 2018)

GrussGott said:


> (1.) disconnect all inputs and outputs except your headphones
> (2.) move to a different side of the house and ideally find an outlet on it's own circuit/breaker and/or unplug everything from that circuit except the Jot - stay as far as possible from anything with a transformer like computers, TVs, appliances, etc
> (3.) Plug in the jot and extend the power cord to its full length out the back and to the left away from all of the inputs, like this
> \
> ...



I tried this on a different circuit and got more and different pitch buzz. Almost all my testing is just with the power cable and headphones connected. No difference with the power cable as far away as possible. Just when I put the power cord within about an inch of the enclosure.
Mine has a black case but isn't new. It has the balanced dac.


----------



## GrussGott (Jul 8, 2018)

PointyFox said:


> I tried this on a different circuit and got more and different pitch buzz. Almost all my testing is just with the power cable and headphones connected. No difference with the power cable as far away as possible. Just when I put the power cord within about an inch of the enclosure.
> Mine has a black case but isn't new. It has the balanced dac.



Any change by flipping through each input, high gain / low gain for each?

Are you far away from any transformers?  (heaters, refrige, fans, etc)


----------



## PointyFox

GrussGott said:


> Any change by flipping through each input, high gain / low gain for each?
> 
> Are you far away from any transformers?  (heaters, refrige, fans, etc)



I am far away from transformers, and moving the amp around doesn't change the buzzing. High gain increases the volume of the noise. USB has the least buzz volume and the other two inputs have louder buzz.


----------



## GrussGott

PointyFox said:


> I am far away from transformers, and moving the amp around doesn't change the buzzing. High gain increases the volume of the noise. USB has the least buzz volume and the other two inputs have louder buzz.



I wish I had more than the links I previously posted ... I solved my with a pangea power cord and AQ Golden Gates into my Eitr, with my amp and Eitr plugged into separate circuits.  Given you're all-in-one, it might be trickier.  In my case my guess is that the shielding and separate power grounds the EMI, but it's a guess


----------



## DavidA

Audiofiend1 said:


> Trying to decide between getting the Jot with Multibit Dac, an Senn HDV800, or a CMA600i. Any suggestions between these three picks guys? I will be listening with HD800s, LCD-2, HE-560, V Moda-100's and a few other cans.


I tried my friends Jot with my HD800 and HE560 and both a little too much on the bright side for me.
My preferred amp for the following headphones:
HD800  - BH Crack
HE560 - Lyr2
LCD-2f - headphone output of UD-301 DAC or Project Ember


----------



## the finisher (Jul 9, 2018)

PointyFox said:


> I tried this on a different circuit and got more and different pitch buzz. Almost all my testing is just with the power cable and headphones connected. No difference with the power cable as far away as possible. Just when I put the power cord within about an inch of the enclosure.
> Mine has a black case but isn't new. It has the balanced dac.



Sorry for your trouble brother.

Okay I have tried several things to try and get outside noise into the system though the Jot.
First I'm testing these things as is, I am not changing my system at all for this test.

I have a dedicated 20 amp, isolated ground, I wired to the box with 10/3 just for my audio gear.
It goes through a commercial  20 amp surge protector that has EMI/RF filtering.  Yggy, and Jotunheim get further help with a  Emotiva DC offset filter.
I run a totally _balanced_ system from DAC to HP's and speakers, except for my sub's which run off the single ended preouts. I use well shielded cables throughout.

With the digital source active but muted, as not to destroy things here. Balance in only, I maxed out the volume, high gain always for me.
I laid my cell phone on the Jot, nothing. I plugged it into my PC 's charging dock, laid it on the Jot, nothing.

So I got my older gaming laptop, surly this thing will be heard, nothing.
I turned the monitor so I could set this large laptop on the Jot with everything wide open, including the laptop running prime95, nothing.

So surely the SMPS brick for this thing would trip up my now magical Jotunheim, no, nothing. Totally silent.

It's a 120vac to 16.5vdc@ 7 amps, transforming/switching power supply, it should be noisy as hell.
I won't put it anywhere near Yggy, which is touchy about such things.

So right now music is playing nice and clean with this running power supply sitting on top of my magical Jot. 

I will try to see if I can trip it up somehow, I wouldn't hold my breath though.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

i have zero noise from either jot (mine or my fil's black one) not sure why some get the buzzing. hmmm


----------



## PointyFox

PointyFox said:


> My Jotunheim is buzzing around 12 o'clock and louder on input 1. Inputs 2 and 3 with nothing connected produce much louder buzzing.
> Unplugging the USB cable doesn't change the buzz.
> Different outlets produce different types of buzz.
> Plugging into a power isolator doesn't affect the buzz.
> ...



Just tried the Jotunheim at another location with the MDR-Z1R instead of Andromedas.
Louder buzzing than before using internal DAC. Buzzing cuts out ~5-10 seconds after music is stopped. It didn't do this before.
Connected my Modi to the SE In RCA jacks and bypassed the internal DAC. This produced the loudest buzzing yet, with interference from my PC added to it (e.g. I could hear interference from my GPU, like when I move my mouse). Buzzing again cuts out ~5-10 seconds after music is stopped.
Tried single end and balanced outputs. Both buzzed.

Looks like I will be returning it. FWIW, my Massdrop LCX+SDAC doesn't buzz. Just some soft tape hiss sounding noise at high volume.


----------



## the finisher (Jul 9, 2018)

PointyFox said:


> Just tried the Jotunheim at another location with the MDR-Z1R instead of Andromedas.
> Louder buzzing than before using internal DAC. Buzzing cuts out ~5-10 seconds after music is stopped. It didn't do this before.
> Connected my Modi to the SE In RCA jacks and bypassed the internal DAC. This produced the loudest buzzing yet, with interference from my PC added to it (e.g. I could hear interference from my GPU, like when I move my mouse). Buzzing again cuts out ~5-10 seconds after music is stopped.
> Tried single end and balanced outputs. Both buzzed.
> ...



My Jot makes no "soft tape hiss" at high volume, it's totally silent with very sensitive transducers.

Something is wrong.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

i think he was reff to the massdrop making the tape hiss noise. but very odd. so whats all plugged into the back of the jot only usb? or usb and rca etc?? just curious. but if it makes noise when nothing else is even plugged in at all then i would say something is wrong.


----------



## the finisher

He is getting a 60hz power line buzz somehow.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

but i think he said he tried it in another location. was that in your house just another room or an actual other separate location. not that it should matter but im curious.


----------



## PointyFox

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> i think he was reff to the massdrop making the tape hiss noise. but very odd. so whats all plugged into the back of the jot only usb? or usb and rca etc?? just curious. but if it makes noise when nothing else is even plugged in at all then i would say something is wrong.



Tried power only, power + usb, and power + RCA. All buzzed.  It sounds like power line hum with a clicking sound every few seconds with my Andromedas. With my Z1R, it sounds like power line hum + weird digital sounds + clicks and also PC GPU interference with the Modi connected, but this was with a different computer in a different location.

Yes, with the Massdrop amp I get a soft tape hiss only at high volume which is completely fine to me.


----------



## the finisher (Jul 9, 2018)

Something's not right here, a properly operating Jot has a S/N ratio of 109 to 115 db depending on various measurements taken. It's known for its black background.

This is broken somehow.

Talk to Schiit, exchange it.


----------



## PointyFox

the finisher said:


> Something's not right here, a properly operating Jot has a S/N ratio of 109 to 115 db depending on various measurements taken. It's known for its black background.
> 
> This is broken somehow.
> 
> Talk to Schiit, exchange it.



I got it off eBay as "new" in an open box from a pawnshop. It's going back. I don't know if I want to take a chance on buying another.


----------



## the finisher (Jul 9, 2018)

I'd send it back for sure, but I'd not judge the Jot in general here.

Schiit has a 5 year warranty if you buy from them.

Goodluck.


----------



## PointyFox (Jul 9, 2018)

the finisher said:


> I'd send it back for sure, but I'd not judge the Jot in general here.
> 
> Schiit has a 5 year warranty if you buy from them.
> 
> Goodluck.



Yeah, but there's the 15% restocking fee and shipping which will come out to something like $130 I'll be out if it buzzes and I use their "15 day money-back guarantee". If I just use warranty replacement, I might be out like $30 shipping and get back another amp that buzzes if it actually buzzes by design.


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## the finisher (Jul 9, 2018)

Buzzes by design, lol are you for real. Do you know what a 109 db S/N ratio means?
It's Schiit's cleanest amp on paper.

Ok, your choice, but they don't generally just buzz for no good reason, as I have just proven.

I think if it was defective they would not charge a fee. This is to stop people from "testing everything they sell" as Jason put it.


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## Th3Drizzl3

ive had three jots in hand and borrowed two prior to that but none of them buzzed. i doubt u will get one and if u do schiit will exchange it im sure. or get one from a reputable person here on head fi who has had it and used it for a bit then u will know. but yes send that thing back


----------



## PointyFox

the finisher said:


> Buzzes by design, lol are you for real. Do you know what a 109 db S/N ratio means?
> It's Schiit's cleanest amp on paper.
> 
> Ok, your choice, but they don't generally just buzz for no good reason, as I have just proven.
> ...



"On paper". Who knows how clean it is when actually connected to things and in an uncontrolled environment.


----------



## the finisher (Jul 9, 2018)

PointyFox said:


> "On paper". Who knows how clean it is when actually connected to things and in an uncontrolled environment.



I put a operating SMPS right on it with 0 effect. If I was to do this to Yggy it would freak out, so I know.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

i also very highly doubt schiit would charge you anything if its buzzing.


----------



## GrussGott

PointyFox said:


> Yeah, but there's the 15% restocking fee and shipping which will come out to something like $130 I'll be out if it buzzes and I use their "15 day money-back guarantee". If I just use warranty replacement, I might be out like $30 shipping and get back another amp that buzzes if it actually buzzes by design.


_5-Year Warranty and Easy Return Policy
Jotunheim is covered by a 5-year limited warranty that covers parts and labor. And if you don’t like your Jotunheim, you can send it back for a refund, *minus 5% restocking fee*, within 15 days of receiving it.
_
The Schiit restocking fee is 5%, and I wouldn't judge the jot by something you got open box on ebay - who knows what the previous "owner" did to it!

Hum or Buzz is almost always either a ground loop or transformer proximity - if you have a BT speaker with a line-in you can hold the open end of aux cable and use it as a EMI detector.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

thats why i asked if it was tested in a totally different location. heck there have been times where even a cell phone can transmit noise to an amp. if the amp was tested somewhere else and still buzzed then there is something wrong.


----------



## PointyFox

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> thats why i asked if it was tested in a totally different location. heck there have been times where even a cell phone can transmit noise to an amp. if the amp was tested somewhere else and still buzzed then there is something wrong.



Yep, tested in a different house with a different computer and still buzzing. My Schiit Magni has some tape-hiss towards the top of the volume range with my Z1R, but it's no where near as bad as the Jotunheim.


----------



## PointyFox

GrussGott said:


> _5-Year Warranty and Easy Return Policy
> Jotunheim is covered by a 5-year limited warranty that covers parts and labor. And if you don’t like your Jotunheim, you can send it back for a refund, *minus 5% restocking fee*, within 15 days of receiving it.
> _
> The Schiit restocking fee is 5%, and I wouldn't judge the jot by something you got open box on ebay - who knows what the previous "owner" did to it!
> ...



I didn't notice they had different restocking fees based on the cost of the product. Thanks! I was looking at the 15% for the cheaper stuff.


----------



## Alcophone (Jul 9, 2018)

The two shielded 14 AWG power cords that mouser.com lists are:
Volex 17604 10 B1 (2m)
Volex 17605 10 B1 (3m)

The two shielded 14 AWG power cords that digikey.com lists are:
Qualtek 312041-01 (2m)
Qualtek 312044-01 (3m)

Looking at Qualtek's power cords cross reference guide, it turns out that is not a coincidence - they are one and the same.
However, unlike Volex's website, Qualtek's PDFs for those cords confirm that they are indeed shielded, with mylar foil.


----------



## rutter

With a Hum-X I think I eliminated one of the background noises I was hearing, the buzzing. Still heard a softer sandy-type/fine grain sound. Currently waiting for a Gungnir Multibit to address USB and get in effect my "end-game" sound. Unfortunately I'm skeptical all noise will be eliminated. Does it make sense to get a Hum-X for the DAC as well? $150 extra. I wonder if perhaps a recent batch of Jotunheims has a greater incidence of background noise.


----------



## RickB (Jul 9, 2018)

Years ago I owned an Asgard 2, which I would get buzzing from. I tried several different things (so long ago my memory is foggy) that didn't work. What did work was getting a Furman M-8x2 power conditioner. Since that time I have owned a Valhalla 2 also, that amp buzzed without the Furman. When I got the Jotunheim, I didn't even try it without, plugged it into the Furman right away. I get no buzz or hum with nothing playing and the volume control maxed out.

Edit: I have never gotten a buzz or hum with a Schiit amp that used a wall wart instead of an internal power supply.


----------



## the finisher (Jul 9, 2018)

PointyFox said:


> Yep, tested in a different house with a different computer and still buzzing. My Schiit Magni has some tape-hiss towards the top of the volume range with my Z1R, but it's no where near as bad as the Jotunheim.



So you are describing two completely different things here. The "hiss" you hear with Magni is the noise floor of the amp.
The sound your getting from the "ebay/unknown if damaged" Jotunheim is a 60 hz power line buzz.

Not comparable at all, most everyone here has no such problem. There has been some with noise, that's why we try to help get to the bottom of it.
Why the hate for Jotunheim when you got it from a unreputable source?

I don't like this whole conversation, I've been down this road before,   so I'm out.


----------



## the finisher

Ok,I can't resist 

I have tried once again to induce noise into my system thru the Jot.
Same as before, live system, digital mute for safety, high gain, full volume, speakers,subs,2 pair if HP's connected.

This time I brought out the big gun, my commercial heat gun, I use it for stripping and other things. It will output 1250f and pull a full 15 amps from the wall. Surely this will make noise when put close to the Jot! I had to be very careful here to not wreck things.

So yes, I can get some wicked hum if I put this thing within 3 feet of my gear, the closer I get the worst it is.
Really it's even hard to say if it's the Jot or other things in the system because this is an outrageous exercise, so don't do it


----------



## Alcophone (Jul 9, 2018)

Alcophone said:


> Mouser.com lists the 14 AWG Tripp-Lite cords I have, but filters them out when I select "shielded". Only a 2 m and 3 m long Volex cord remain (when looking for 14 AWG as well), but looking on their website, there's no indication that they actually are shielded. I now reached out to both Tripp-Lite and Volex to find out which of these is shielded.


Tripp-Lite confirmed that the 14 AWG heavy duty cables they sell are not shielded. As mentioned earlier, for Volex shielding was indirectly confirmed by finding out that the Volex cords are the same ones as the Qualtek ones, for which the documentation indicates that they are shielded.


----------



## the finisher

Alcophone said:


> Tripp-Lite confirmed that the 14 AWG heavy duty cables they sell are not shielded. As mentioned earlier, for Volex shielding was indirectly confirmed by finding out that the Volex cords are the same ones as the Qualtek ones, for which the documentation indicates that they are shielded.



I bought some 12awg 4 meter shielded power cords from Emotiva on closeout.
Pretty decent cable with a thick foil shield, I wonder if it's the same manufacturer?


----------



## Alcophone

the finisher said:


> I bought some 12awg 4 meter shielded power cords from Emotiva on closeout.
> Pretty decent cable with a thick foil shield, I wonder if it's the same manufacturer?


Nice, didn't know they sold power cords. Apparently not any longer, though.


----------



## the finisher

Alcophone said:


> Nice, didn't know they sold power cords. Apparently not any longer, though.



No I bought some of the last off ebay from them 5 for $25 each. I will use it to make my own custom length 12 gauge power cords.
65 feet of shielded 12 awg with plugs for $125, I jumped on it.


A 1 meter example






*So *I just looked and the Emo CMX-2 is back in stock after 9 months! I have one filtering my Yggy and Jot.  Works great obviously.
Great deal at $129 free ship.
I just picked up a second for my 2 channel living room system source components.

Might want to get one now, before they are gone.
I'd like more than 2. https://emotiva.com/collections/accessories/products/cmx-2


----------



## rutter

the finisher said:


> No I bought some of the last off ebay from them 5 for $25 each. I will use it to make my own custom length 12 gauge power cords.
> 65 feet of shielded 12 awg with plugs for $125, I jumped on it.
> 
> 
> ...



This doesn't have a power cable of its own? Looks like it needs one. What exactly does it resolve? Is it redundant with a Hum-X?


----------



## Alcophone

rutter said:


> This doesn't have a power cable of its own? Looks like it needs one. What exactly does it resolve? Is it redundant with a Hum-X?


By now I consider that a feature. My power strips / surge protectors right now probably don't have a shielded cable, and I can't simply add one, but would like to, since many of these cables are running parallel with each other, and with single ended interconnects.


----------



## the finisher

Everything is well shielded here even the cmx-2, except the optical cable which makes no difference off course being glass.


----------



## PointyFox

the finisher said:


> Everything is well shielded here even the cmx-2, except the optical cable which makes no difference off course being glass.



Is it just an isolation transformer?
I tried this out and heard no change in buzz: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07594SC84


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

no it is not a normal isolation transformer. imo i have had little luck normally when i had a hum i couldnt find with simple isolation transformers this thing from emotiva does work in the 2 cases ive used it.


----------



## rutter

What cable should you get with it? Is it still necessary to buy cables for the DAC and amp too?


----------



## the finisher

PointyFox said:


> Is it just an isolation transformer?
> I tried this out and heard no change in buzz: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07594SC84



Unsure about that product, this filters DC offset, ie. keeps direct current out of the AC to the gear.


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## the finisher (Jul 10, 2018)

A review on Emos site, I'm sure they won't mind 


03/25/18
Emotiva CMX-2 PRECISION COMMON MODE AC LINE FILTER WITH DC OFFSET ELIMINATOR

Audiophiles, ( sometimes called idiophools,) regularly spend huge amounts of money on power conditioners, many of which do nothing, or merely "change" the sound of a system. Buying multi-thousand dollar power conditioners is not a feasible option for most audio enthusiasts. The CMX-2 sold by Emotiva addresses a very real problem many audio enthusi

asts face. How many of you have suddenly heard one or more power transformers in your component system start to buzz or hum for no apparent reason? I have experienced this phenomenon on numerous occasions. Once, I spent about a week trying to figure out what was wrong with a 20-amp General Radio Variac that would start humming in the early morning hours. (I used the variac to soft-start a vintage tube gear system.) The variac would hum so loudly that it would actually wake me up. I finally realized that the cause of the issue was my wife's hairdryer. She was in the other end of the house using a hairdryer that was plugged into a separate circuit. The problem was caused by the noisy motor in the hair dryer. When it ran, it dumped large amounts of noise, including DC into the wiring of our entire house. No power conditioner I had did any good. Isolation transformers merely hummed along with the variac and other components I was using at the time. I finally bought a PS Audio Humbuster new for $300. I still have the unit, and it literally eliminated the problem immediately. The humming and buzzing were gone. Unfortunately, PS Audio no longer makes Humbusters. Used Humbusters bring good prices on the usual auction site.

We moved to another city, and my wife needed my Humbuster to quiet the transformers in her Coda S12, which left me back where I started. I found the CMX-2 on Emotiva's and bought it sight unseen and unheard. I wasn't sure what to expect when I unpacked the CMX-2. After all, the CMX-2 costs slightly more than a third of what the PS Audio unit sold for. I was relieved to find that the unit is well made, and seems to do more than remove DC offset from the mains line. It filters high frequency power line pollution as well as DC offset. The CMX-2 does not appear to be a surge protector, but I don't need it to be. I plugged in my gear which had transformer hum issues and poof! The buzzing and humming were gone. I have had the unit for about a year now, and it continues to perform flawlessly. The only nitpick I can think of would that the AC outlet in the unit is not as robust as it might be, which might be an issue if one has expensive "fire-hose" sized power cables, but it is a reasonably good commercial-grade receptacle that gets the job done. The CMX-2 Does what it promises and is very reasonably priced. If you have this problem in your system, buy a CMX-2 and get on with your life


----------



## cobrabucket

RickB said:


> Years ago I owned an Asgard 2, which I would get buzzing from. I tried several different things (so long ago my memory is foggy) that didn't work. What did work was getting a Furman M-8x2 power conditioner.




This! Furman M-8x2 eliminated a ground loop issue I had... Never had any issues with my Schiit buzzing though.


----------



## Audiofiend1

What do you guys think between the Oppo HA-1 and the Jot with Multibit? looks like i could either one of them currently for the same price but i'm having a tough time deciding which is better...


----------



## areek

Schiit audio refused to accept both of my parents credit cards seeing both as fraudulent. We do not have paypal in our country. I guess there is no way one can buy the amp if you are a third world country.
Sadly enough, I do have the bifrost and sold my lyr 1 for this already. Now I am without an amp. This is plain sad.


----------



## PointyFox (Jul 10, 2018)

areek said:


> Schiit audio refused to accept both of my parents credit cards seeing both as fraudulent. We do not have paypal in our country. I guess there is no way one can buy the amp if you are a third world country.
> Sadly enough, I do have the bifrost and sold my lyr 1 for this already. Now I am without an amp. This is plain sad.



Tried to pay with VESA and MisterCard?
Sorry


----------



## areek

PointyFox said:


> Tried to pay with VESA and MisterCard?
> Sorry


mastercard. Payment went through at first, then canceled after few hours.


----------



## rutter

Got the Gumby, it doesn't appear to be the USB input. Fully balanced with all Schiit cables. At least the perceptible noise now appears to have been pushed slightly beyond max listening level but there's plenty of it if you turn the knob. I also have a Hum-X for the Jot and use a power strip just for the DAC and amp. Pretty disappointing but I think I'll just ignore this and assume it isn't indicative of more significant problems. On the CMA400i without a Hum-X noise was minimal and restricted to the high end.


----------



## GrussGott (Jul 11, 2018)

rutter said:


> Got the Gumby, it doesn't appear to be the USB input. Fully balanced with all Schiit cables. At least the perceptible noise now appears to have been pushed slightly beyond max listening level but there's plenty of it if you turn the knob. I also have a Hum-X for the Jot and use a power strip just for the DAC and amp. Pretty disappointing but I think I'll just ignore this and assume it isn't indicative of more significant problems. On the CMA400i without a Hum-X noise was minimal and restricted to the high end.



Again, there are *THREE *usual sources of "hum and buzz" noise:

Inter-chassis current between components with OR without ground
Caused by stray capacitance in the power supply

Ground loops
Caused by variance in the ground between interconnected components

Electromagnetic coupling of AC and signal cables
Cause by magnetic induction of current in a signal cable from noisy external sources

What this means is that solving a ground loop issue with HumX, power strips, cheater plugs (note: electrocution risk), star ground schemes, etc _*is only 1 source*_

The next likely source is if your audio equipment is near anything with an electrical transformer: appliances, TVs, computers, heat guns apparently ... a $20 EMF meter from a hardware store is fun to play with to understand the causes unique to you (don't assume they'll be obvious).

After that, it can be all kinds of things including "microphoning" from crappy cables or lots of other stuff.

An example is cell phones which introduce a loud buzz in a battery powered Chord Mojo even with an excellent shielded USB cable.  According to Chord they spent years on ways to prevent it, but my new once from last fall still had it, yet the iFi DSD BL did not.  This isn't necessarily a rip on Chord as different architectures are affected differently and everything has trade-offs

Find and fix hum and buzz


----------



## rutter

GrussGott said:


> Again, there are *THREE *usual sources of "hum and buzz" noise:
> 
> Inter-chassis current between components with OR without ground
> Caused by stray capacitance in the power supply
> ...




Same position as the CMA400i, you keep missing that detail. How does the lots of other stuff not apply to the 400i? I mean, come on, integrate that in your troubleshooting. I'm really tired of spending money, waiting to get things (spent $100 on one-day shipping for the Gumby expecting it to be shipped on the website stated date, got it nearly two weeks later), and giving people the benefit of the doubt. Replacing every cable sounds great in an ideal world but you're the first person I've seen claim this is important in my time on this forum and around audiophilia in general. I'm too tired, annoyed, and unwilling to spend more even to send the Jot back to Schiit for inspection. I'm inclined to just ignore this as the certainly perceptible noise has shifted somewhat beyond listening level especially with the headphone I'm keeping; I just hope this isn't indicative of something worse. All I have left to do is return the HD800S and get a balanced cable for the LCD-X and I think I'm done for the foreseeable future. A like $650 upgrade for the Gumby that will be standard when introduced is making me sick but that's just bad timing. I want to just start enjoying things.


----------



## GrussGott

Here's my set up that fixed my noise problems


----------



## Alcophone

GrussGott said:


> Here's my set up that fixed my noise problems


Looks terrible  But at least it gets the job done, I suppose.
With the fancy iFi Mercury USB cable I won, I also had issues with it disconnecting too easily with the Yggdrasil. Though part of it was that it's super short, so it's easy to accidentally pull on it.


----------



## GrussGott

Alcophone said:


> Looks terrible



That's only funny because it's true!  

Keeps me humble.


----------



## rutter

People in the Magni 3 thread are reporting noise as well.



Th3Drizzl3 said:


> no it is not a normal isolation transformer. imo i have had little luck normally when i had a hum i couldnt find with simple isolation transformers this thing from emotiva does work in the 2 cases ive used it.



What power cable do you use with it? Think I'll try one but I need a separate cable. Can't be arsed to play around with everything else given I've already spent money for that schiit!! Obviously I'm liable to changing my mind. Why isn't Schiit getting grilled over this?


----------



## rutter

https://emotiva.com/collections/accessories/products/cmx-2

Nvm, a cable is included under features. Does it make any difference if this is plugged into another power strip or directly into the wall?


----------



## GrussGott (Jul 12, 2018)

rutter said:


> you're the first person I've seen claim this is important in my time on this forum and around audiophilia in general.



if you read responses to your numerous posts in this very thread I'm at least the 5th person which is why I'm now using the ignore-cable to silence your noise


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

rutter said:


> People in the Magni 3 thread are reporting noise as well.
> 
> 
> 
> What power cable do you use with it? Think I'll try one but I need a separate cable. Can't be arsed to play around with everything else given I've already spent money for that schiit!! Obviously I'm liable to changing my mind. Why isn't Schiit getting grilled over this?


do u mean for the jot or the emotiva? if u mean the jot i use hospital grade 14 and 12 awg cords. i do IT work in a surgical center and i get them free usually lol they work great and ive never had any noise issues.


----------



## rutter

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> do u mean for the jot or the emotiva? if u mean the jot i use hospital grade 14 and 12 awg cords. i do IT work in a surgical center and i get them free usually lol they work great and ive never had any noise issues.



Have you tried the one that comes with it? Did your Jot have noise?


----------



## sup27606

In my experience, certain amps/configurations are more affected by environmental noise than others. I have two tube amps, a cheap Nobsound NS-08E and La Figaro 339. Both are completely quiet with the stock tubes, but with a certain aftermarket tube set, the La Figaro is noticeably noisy. When I swapped the opamp in the Nobsound with a Burson V5i, there was horrible noise. In both cases, the main source of noise was the headphone cable picking up EMI (even faint FM stations on clear evenings, sounds ridiculous!). Besides, in the Nobsound there was power supply noise as well. I ran it from a battery pack to verify. The noise went away. In comparison to both these, the Jot is completely quiet. Never had any noise issue. 

What GrussGott summarized about the noise sources is very helpful IMO. Also, just because one amp is affected by noise and the other isn't in a particular environment doesn't say anything about the quality of the product. Its just unfortunate if an amp doesn't work in my setup. Instead of spending money on it and tearing my hair, I will just move on to something else that works. Plenty of options in this price range. Used Audio-gd, iDSD etc etc.


----------



## rutter

Can someone create a list of affordable products that will ultimately eliminate noise? I'm getting the Emotiva strip thing, I might as well finish things off later if the so-called solutions are affordable.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

rutter said:


> Have you tried the one that comes with it? Did your Jot have noise?



no except at almost peak volume there maybe was a tiny bit but nothing bad at all.


----------



## Alcophone

rutter said:


> https://emotiva.com/collections/accessories/products/cmx-2
> 
> Nvm, a cable is included under features. Does it make any difference if this is plugged into another power strip or directly into the wall?


Nice, even a 14 AWG one. Unusual for devices, though the norm for power strips and the like.

Should be no problem in a regular power strip. Since it doesn't seem to be a surge protector, you can even plug it into a surge protector.
MOV-based surge protectors however should not be used in series.


----------



## the finisher (Jul 13, 2018)

The cmx-2 has no surge protection.

This surge protector does not use MOV, and last forever.
They are used on expensive commercial equipment, and come in 20 amp versions.
https://www.amazon.com/ESP-Digital-Surge-Protector-Filter/dp/B00I3HLPII


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

i checked tonight and the cable im currently using is a 12 awg hospital grade shielded cable. i will say the 12awg is prob way overkill for the jot lol


----------



## Alcophone

the finisher said:


> The cmx-2 has no surge protection.
> 
> This surge protector does not use MOV, and last forever.
> They are used on expensive commercial equipment, and come in 20 amp versions.
> https://www.amazon.com/ESP-Digital-Surge-Protector-Filter/dp/B00I3HLPII


"Unlike standard surge protectors and power strips that offer limited protection (often using only metal oxide varistors (MOV)), *the Digital QC combines gas tubes, silicone avalanche diodes and metal oxide varistors* into a patented circuit that does not degrade over time and provides very robust protection."

So it is non-sacrificial (like the Furman PST-8), but still uses MOVs (like the Furman PST-8), while featuring fewer outlets and no protection for a TV/internet cable connection, which matters in my case.

I don't know to what extent the "do not chain" warnings apply here, unfortunately.

The only MOV-free surge protectors I'm aware of are series mode protectors like the ones SurgeX offers. Impressive, but pricy. No idea how current limiting they are.


----------



## rutter

the finisher said:


> The cmx-2 has no surge protection.
> 
> This surge protector does not use MOV, and last forever.
> They are used on expensive commercial equipment, and come in 20 amp versions.
> https://www.amazon.com/ESP-Digital-Surge-Protector-Filter/dp/B00I3HLPII



How about this surge protector?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00TP1C1UC

'cause it's what I got


----------



## rutter

By the way, with classical music I'm so far into the background noise it's not even funny. Yet another reason to stay away from it... ha har-har. Ticks me off though.


----------



## the finisher (Jul 13, 2018)

I stand corrected.

SurgeX is the same company, and they have many different models, sadly no coaxial protection though.
http://espsurgex.com/product/digital-qc/

I would say the "do not chain warning" applies here, and why the cmx-2 has no surge protection built in IMO.
Also these surge protectors need min 25' run to the main to work properly.

They will sacrifice themselves if directly hit by lightning, in which case Ametek will send you a new one.
Made in USA, lifetime warranty.

Edit: Also for anyone needing a good power strip without surge protection I use these, 14 AWG cord, non shielded, or replaceable. Switched or not and different sizes available.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000F99CJG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

If you'd like better and need to attach a shielded power cable Emotiva has this. But sold out, this stuff is popular. If you want a cmx-2 I get one now.
https://emotiva.com/collections/accessories/products/cmx-6


----------



## GrussGott

rutter said:


> *Can someone create a list of affordable products* that will ultimately eliminate noise? I'm getting the Emotiva strip thing, I might as well finish things off later if the so-called solutions are affordable.



yes, *you *can do that - thanks!

Great way for you to finally contribute to this forum rather than always taking


----------



## bfreedma

GrussGott said:


> yes, *you *can do that - thanks!
> 
> Great way for you to finally contribute to this forum rather than always taking




I find that the Ignore feature eliminates a lot of unwanted noise...


----------



## rutter

the finisher said:


> I stand corrected.
> 
> SurgeX is the same company, and they have many different models, sadly no coaxial protection though.
> http://espsurgex.com/product/digital-qc/
> ...



Just need to know whether the $10 power strip with surge protection I have suffices. CMX-2 is on the way.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00TP1C1UC


----------



## PointyFox

No usb or power restorer, decrapifier, isolator, regenerator, etc or cable shielding will work if the noise is introduced within the amp/dac. The best test for this is to use a known good amp / dac with your current connections and see if there is noise. Swap my noisy Jotunheim with a LCX-SDAC and it is quiet.  This way if it is a problem with your amp / dac, you won't waste money on cords and dongles.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

imo a 10$ surge protector is usually crap. maybe it will help but i would never count on something like that for my expensive electronics. especially the amazon basics one you linked to. no offense intended


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

PointyFox said:


> No usb or power restorer, decrapifier, isolator, regenerator, etc or cable shielding will work if the noise is introduced within the amp/dac. The best test for this is to use a known good amp / dac with your current connections and see if there is noise. Swap my noisy Jotunheim with a LCX-SDAC and it is quiet.  This way if it is a problem with your amp / dac, you won't waste money on cords and dongles.


this ^^ you really need to test with something else to see if the noise is coming from within the amp or before the amp


----------



## rutter

PointyFox said:


> No usb or power restorer, decrapifier, isolator, regenerator, etc or cable shielding will work if the noise is introduced within the amp/dac. The best test for this is to use a known good amp / dac with your current connections and see if there is noise. Swap my noisy Jotunheim with a LCX-SDAC and it is quiet.  This way if it is a problem with your amp / dac, you won't waste money on cords and dongles.



That was my initial inclination but people were insistent on trying all this stuff and that the problem should eventually be fixed. You might be right. I did try a CMA400i and the noise was minimal and restricted to the end, and I didn't even use a Hum-X with it.



Th3Drizzl3 said:


> imo a 10$ surge protector is usually crap. maybe it will help but i would never count on something like that for my expensive electronics. especially the amazon basics one you linked to. no offense intended



Meaning in case of surge it wouldn't protect?


----------



## Th3Drizzl3 (Jul 13, 2018)

maybe yes maybe no. hard to say. ive seen WAYYYYY to many crap "surge protectors" not do a damn thing and things plugged in were fried anyway. i only use higher quality ones for when i use them. ive also had a few cases in my line of work where el cheapo ones were what was actually causing the power problems. when they were removed and replaced the issues they were having at the time (various types of issues) went away. many people dont even really know what or how a surge protector really works. they buy these 5$ ones at wal mart or somewhere and expect them to do miracles


----------



## rutter

I think this is an interesting take on this issue from the Magni 3 thread:



DoomzDayz said:


> Of course there's noise on the power line, as there always is.  It's up to the device to have enough filtering to deal with it - other amps on the same power outlet have a nice black background.  My question is along the lines of, is my amp within spec or is the noise in my home greater than what it was designed for.  I suppose finding an oscilloscope would give me some numbers to give to them, but my laptop is a fairly common one.  Despite this issue, I'm certainly enjoying the Magni 3 especially for the price


----------



## MWSVette

Baldr said:


> Everyone on this thread deserves at least one reply here. It seems @rutter has much to say with his 8 and a halfish posts per day for his 67 days life on this forum. I have not read all of them, but have read most of them on the Jotunheim thread. I have yet to read anything he likes about any of our Schiit products or me as a poster or designer, despite his informed choices of pro audio software.
> 
> I observe that despite his dissatisfaction with our products, he continues to buy more while continuing to deride them, our company, and me. It seems there is nothing that Schiit nor I can do to please him. Therefore, I propose the following to @rutter: If you still loathe the Mimby, Bimby, my writings, or our personnel, kindly PM me with your details, if you believe it to be my business and I publicly pledge to you that I will, upon receipt of our returned Mimby and Bimby, completely refund all of your money, including all return fees for them. This is conditional on your agreement to never, but never, buy anything from us ever again.
> 
> ...




You really should take Mike up on his offer...


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

wow i missed that post. i agree. if he is that unhappy with schiit why bother to keep trying and buying more? something that would not make any sense to me.


----------



## rutter

I can't even have a proper dialogue with "Mike" so let's stop pretending like Mike is doling out offers in good faith. That was a little bit of showboating as I got promptly silenced. Now, I would prefer not to have mods sitting on top of me trying to hatch me for a couple of weeks so let's just avoid that topic. I'm not sure I've seen a single constructive or helpful post from you, MWSVette, so I'm going to place you on ignore.



Th3Drizzl3 said:


> wow i missed that post. i agree. if he is that unhappy with schiit why bother to keep trying and buying more? something that would not make any sense to me.



Ignore it. He makes false claims about my posting history and along with mods removes my ability to refute his claims. Like I said, it's best to move on from that as I won't get a fair shake. The short of it is I'm not out to get Schiit as I couldn't care less- I'm just trying to buy the correct stuff and do have a low tolerance for bs. I've stuck with Schiit thus far because versus the CMA400i I thought the Mimby + Jot sounds much better, as my posting history reveals, and am unaware of alternatives. Focus on the noise, which is clearly there as I'm far from the only one experiencing it with Schiit. At this point I am fancying a Gustard H20 though, following in Alcophones' footsteps.


----------



## MWSVette




----------



## rutter

Is it recommended to keep the Jot on at all times like you would say a Gungnir Multibit? In particular, if you do this would you stand to reign in say the reputed brightness of the Jot? What benefits if any might you see?


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

depends who you ask. with the jot if left on all the time or a good say 24 hours prior to listening it tends to smooth it out some and lessen some of the upper end harshness.


----------



## rutter

Is that your opinion or? You preface it with depends on who you ask. If that's true then you'd pretty much have to keep the Jot on at all times. Has "Mike" made any pronouncements on this like he has with the Gungnir Multibit? I think the Jot might run warmer than the Gumby. Any concerns whatsoever regarding that if kept on at all times?


----------



## Th3Drizzl3 (Jul 13, 2018)

with the older jot yes. the newest 2 i have listened to do not seem to need to be on nearly as long and sound smoother right from the start. they usually recc leaving it on all the time. my older silver one did not run any hotter when left on vs on and off.


----------



## kevlar51

rutter said:


> Is that your opinion or? You preface it with depends on who you ask. If that's true then you'd pretty much have to keep the Jot on at all times. Has "Mike" made any pronouncements on this like he has with the Gungnir Multibit? I think the Jot might run warmer than the Gumby. Any concerns whatsoever regarding that if kept on at all times?



There is no official recommendation that I know of. Anecdotally, I keep mine on all the time. I subjectively think it sounds better warm. It is warm but not hot to the touch. I am not concerned with keeping it on.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

correct nothing official but many have said jason recc leaving it on all the time in various forums.


----------



## rutter

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> correct nothing official but many have said jason recc leaving it on all the time in various forums.



I've gone through the first page of search results for the Jot by him in his blog thread and have not found a quote. I'd like to read exactly what he says.


----------



## GrussGott

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> correct nothing official but many have said jason recc leaving it on all the time in various forums.


Yup, ladder DACs like the mimby need "thermal equilibrium" of the components (which is different from 'warming up').  I leave my jot on all of the time too, as well as the DAC.


----------



## GrussGott

rutter said:


> I've gone through the first page of search results for the Jot by him in his blog thread and have not found a quote. I'd like to read exactly what he says.



Cool story, how's it end?


----------



## the finisher (Jul 13, 2018)

My Jot uses about 14 watts at idle. I never turn it off, I use it everyday.
And it is very quiet and awesome in every way for a $400 balanced headphone/ preamp.
If I had a problem with it, or any product I would not have aired it out on a public forum. I would have went to the company in question and tried to resolve it.

@rutter you are on my ignore list but I can't but wonder why you haven't contacted Schiit about your Jot?
They test the gear they sell before they box it and ship it. They would be stupid not to.
So, your Jot had specific parameters to pass, the same as mine. Maybe a mistake was made?
Your Jot has a 5 year warranty, almost unheard of in the electronics business, use it.
Maybe your setup is to blame either way your method of resolving it has not worked.

I really hope it does work out for you.


----------



## Cruxiaer

the finisher said:


> If I had a problem with it, or any product I would not have aired it out on a public forum. I would have went to the company in question and tried to resolve it.
> 
> @rutter you are on my ignore list but I can't but wonder why you haven't contacted Schiit about your Jot?
> They test the gear they sell before they box it and ship it. They would be stupid not to.
> ...


I'm not sure why you wouldn't air pruduct issues on a public forum. The more people who knows about the issues and solutions the better. 

However I do agree that you might have got a lemon copy and should consider sending it back to Schiit.


----------



## the finisher (Jul 13, 2018)

Cruxiaer said:


> I'm not sure why you wouldn't air pruduct issues on a public forum. The more people who knows about the issues and solutions the better.
> 
> However I do agree that you might have got a lemon copy and should consider sending it back to Schiit.



I may start some schiit if a company does not live up to their end of the deal.

But this would not be my first course action if I had an issue.  And what issue is there actually?

No one actually knows, it's all conjecture and spite as far as I can tell.


----------



## Alcophone

the finisher said:


> It's just your the only one on it besides Amir of ASR, so it makes it easy to know who is posting.



Speaking of Amir, he has just posted a review of the Jotunheim / comparison with the iFi micro iDSD Black Label. It's actually a review, i.e. with some actual listening time and comments on the sound. :-D
Anyway, he measured some power supply hum and noticed that the top does not appear to be grounded. He then grounded the top to one of the RCA outs and the measured hum went away. Quite interesting, possibly a solution for @rutter's issues?


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

i agree my question is why they were not contacted first and at least given a chance to resolve it directly and then IF they were not helpful or told you to go kick rocks then make it known public. they have a warranty for a reason and in a case like this it may need to be used. crap happens (lol) not ever amp made or ANY product for that matter will have a 100% track record. ive been through it myself. heck i work with computer hardware and i see doa stuff (sadly) way to often. it sucks but its life. give the company a chance to work with you first, my experience with schiit has never been bad and the cust service was great.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

Alcophone said:


> Speaking of Amir, he has just posted a review of the Jotunheim / comparison with the iFi micro iDSD Black Label. It's actually a review, i.e. with some actual listening time and comments on the sound. :-D
> Anyway, he measured some power supply hum and noticed that the top does not appear to be grounded. He then grounded the top to one of the RCA outs and the measured hum went away. Quite interesting, possibly a solution for @rutter's issues?


you know its funny you say that. i was actually going to suggest he try that as a test. when i owned a car audio shop we had to do this with many of the junk crap amps (think pyramid, mobile authority, etc etc) people brought in that made the infamous alternator whine. grounding the barrel of the rca to the chassis of the amp would usually make it go away. and it was not a ground issue in the vehicle.


----------



## the finisher (Jul 14, 2018)

So, maybe there is an issue here, be a good thing to know for sure.
Be hard for Schiit to take any action though, because they are not involved.

I have tried many ways to make mine misbehave, I can't, mine must be good.
It's possible rutter has a bad one, the world may never know.


----------



## rutter

Cruxiaer said:


> I'm not sure why you wouldn't air pruduct issues on a public forum. The more people who knows about the issues and solutions the better.
> 
> However I do agree that you might have got a lemon copy and should consider sending it back to Schiit.



 As I was inclined to believe at first. I was told by others the fault is likely not with the device. GrussGott even placed the chance at 10% that it might be the Jot. Despite having compared with another amp he hasn't changed his stance. Go figure. Also, based on what I've read since I wouldn't be surprised at all if Schiit has a higher than average incidence rate of background noise. It's funny, if I hadn't started using Sonarworks with lower volume to avoid clipping it might've gone undetected in my case.



Alcophone said:


> Speaking of Amir, he has just posted a review of the Jotunheim / comparison with the iFi micro iDSD Black Label. It's actually a review, i.e. with some actual listening time and comments on the sound. :-D
> Anyway, he measured some power supply hum and noticed that the top does not appear to be grounded. He then grounded the top to one of the RCA outs and the measured hum went away. Quite interesting, possibly a solution for @rutter's issues?



I think the Hum-X actually eliminated one of the sounds. The fine grain sound during operation remains and when turned all the way up a sort of vibration appears. As far as sound quality goes, the Jot should be in another league compared to the iFi Micro Black Label. I've had both. I actually preferred a $200 Modi 2/Magni 3 Schiit stack over the $600 Micro BL, as I'm on the record stating. Currently I'm starting to get perceptible noise past 12 o'clock balanced with the HD800S and single-ended with the LCD-X on high gain. Should I be trying to ground something else beyond using Hum-X?


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

rutter can you to try something? can you take a small wire strip both ends and wrap it around the barrel of one of the rca inputs (or use a small jumper wire). and then hold it carefully just inside one of the holes on top and press it down gently. im very curious to see if the noise goes away. this would tell me that the "lid" is not making a good ground when it gets slid into the holes for the post on the bottom chassis.


----------



## rutter

I don't think I have wire at the moment... maybe tomorrow. So you want me to wrap one end around one of the rca inputs (I'm currently using the balanced ones with the Gumby) and stick the other end inside the Jot from up top until where? Should the whole strip be bare?


----------



## Th3Drizzl3 (Jul 14, 2018)

strip just a bit from both ends. one should touch the barrel of one rca (the outside of the barrel) and the other touch the top just inside one of the holes. dont put it way in just enough to press it down. ill make a picture and label it. if this fixes it its actually a fairly easy fix to make it permanent. and something they should be aware of. the way this amp goes together is there are 2 "keyholes" for each side on the bottom of the chassis then on the lid it has small posts that go into each and then it slides towards the rear. then the knob goes on. i wonder if the paint is somehow not making a good contact there or something similar i would need to see an amp making the noise in hand to know for sure.


----------



## rutter

That description suffices. I'll look for wire tomorrow.


----------



## the finisher (Jul 14, 2018)

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> i would need to see an amp making the noise in hand to know for sure.



Good point, I'm sure the manufacturer would as well.
If they were contacted, for a warranty claim, why is it assumed the burden of shipping is on the customer here?


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

im just curious to see if it helps. then he would know for sure what the problem is. and again i agree that schiit should be allowed to take care of it. but it seems he wants to troubleshoot himself


----------



## the finisher (Jul 14, 2018)

This could help others when this comes up, because it has.

However this is not a commonplace problem.



Th3Drizzl3 said:


> i wonder if the paint is somehow not making a good contact there or something similar


----------



## rutter (Jul 14, 2018)

the finisher said:


> Good point, I'm sure the manufacturer would as well.
> If they were contacted, why is it assumed the burden of shipping is on the customer here?



If a defect is obvious I think they do give you a label and send a replacement free of shipping charge. The first Loki I got was clearly defective and I do think they gave me a label and immediately dispatched a replacement. This is more of a bitch to pin down, as evidenced by this thread. Initially I thought the Modi Multibit I had is what would be defective as I have been told that one of the functions of a DAC is to eliminate background noise (partly why I was as pissed as I was). Note, when I described the issue they did not give me a label- I was responsible for shipping. As I noted in this thread, they even made it seem like they were doing _me_ a favor in accepting the Modi Multibit after the return period! Afterward I emailed them again wanting to upgrade, casting doubt on whether the Modi Multibit was actually defective. When they received and presumably inspected the Modi Multibit 1) they never told me anything about what they determined 2) I was charged the return fee.

I don't have another amp. I want to listen to headphones. It takes a week and say $13 one-way to ship. The one time I dropped $100 for one-day shipping I got the product nearly two weeks later (maybe 9-10 days if I recall correctly) because apparently what they write on their site isn't to be taken too seriously. I'm not one of you with equipment and alternatives out the wazoo. Based on my previous experience I also expect to pay for shipping to them, and it just wouldn't surprise me if I come away empty-handed. Dealing with Schiit just isn't that straightforward of an experience. At best it seems I got unlucky in getting not one but two defective products. I also get the impression they like irregular angles with some of their smaller knobs and other things that stick out. I emailed them about that, I was ok with the response. Then I started running into more significant issues.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3 (Jul 14, 2018)

if this is the problem (and im not saying it is but its a guess) its actually an easy fix internally also if one doesnt have warranty from say a used amp.


the finisher said:


>


doh its late.... what i meant to say is if the paint is causing it NOT to make a good contact there.


----------



## rutter (Jul 14, 2018)

This might be a breach of etiquette but here's a quote from "the" Amir



> I opened the lid and there is no prayer of that ever getting grounded. The pins that mount it to the rest of the box are insulated. And where they seat, is also painted. So every unit is going to have the hum issue and it is just a matter of how bad it is for it to be audible.



What I don't know is if this is what I eliminated with the Hum-X. It's also a rather questionable claim as although it turns out multiple people in this thread have run into background noise some do claim their Jots are silent.

In another post he claims there's also bleeding through the USB connection, which might be what I continue to experience (with a Gen 5 Gumby...), whereas the Micro BL is completely silent, which I think was the case with me too. But the Micro BL sucks in my opinion and isn't worth the money.



> Conclusions
> It was great to test these two high-power headphone amplifiers. They forever changed my experience and expectation of headphone amplifiers. Between the two, the iFi iDSD Black Edition is a clear winner. It is so both in objective measurements and subjective listening tests across multiple headphones.
> 
> The lack of upper lid grounding in Jotunheim is a safety concern and likely the cause of hum and noise in its user base. It produces higher distortion and noise which I find audibly objectionable. It also generates fair bit of heat. The top is borderline too hot to put your hands on.
> ...



Couldn't disagree with the first and third paragraphs more strongly. Although I guess I should point out that for $50 more I had a separate Mimby. Nonetheless, I still preferred a $200 basic Schiit stack to the Micro BL when I was using a Hifiman Edition X v2 and an HE400i. In fact, if the Nano BL actually manages to drive a headphone I found it to render the Micro BL unnecessary.

By the way, for those of you who have asked for hum-related measurements, I think you should read this person's review, at least for that part.


----------



## Alcophone

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> strip just a bit from both ends. one should touch the barrel of one rca (the outside of the barrel) and the other touch the top just inside one of the holes. dont put it way in just enough to press it down. ill make a picture and label it. if this fixes it its actually a fairly easy fix to make it permanent. and something they should be aware of. the way this amp goes together is there are 2 "keyholes" for each side on the bottom of the chassis then on the lid it has small posts that go into each and then it slides towards the rear. then the knob goes on. i wonder if the paint is somehow not making a good contact there or something similar i would need to see an amp making the noise in hand to know for sure.


I tried that just now, taking a wire from a surge protector I no longer need. It does reduce the buzz somewhat, almost to half. It seems to be difficult to get enough contact area for a firm connection, but I see potential.
I also experimented with silver aluminum foil tape, but while indeed conductive, that was less successful.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3 (Jul 14, 2018)

prob just not a good enough connection on the lid side but if it reduced it a good amount. i would not want someone to ruin the finish but id bet if it had a better connection with that wire it would be even better. if one wanted to make it permanent you could take the lid off and either wire the lid to ground with a wire or make the connection of at least one of those pins on the lid make proper contact. its odd to me why some seem to have this noise and others dont show it. neither of the ones i had showed noise audible enough to worry about. hmmm


----------



## Alcophone

rutter said:


> I also get the impression they like irregular angles with some of their smaller knobs and other things that stick out.


My Schiit SYS has a crooked volume knob. Looks a bit like a steam boat chimney from the top. I contacted Schiit about it, at some point was asked to send picture, then never heard back. I've given up mentioning smaller cosmetic issues like that. However, that was before they set up their ticket system, so it might work out better now.
That said, all my Schiit worked so far. Vidar, SYS, a Lyr 2 I returned on time, two Jotunheims and an Yggdrasil.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

the knob should be fairly easy to straighten if you wanted to.


----------



## rutter

Like I said, I was fine with their response that it's just something that happens when the board is seated inside the chassis. Not very professional, but not a priority.


----------



## Alcophone

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> prob just not a good enough connection on the lid side but if it reduced it a good amount. i would not want someone to ruin the finish but id bet if it had a better connection with that wire it would be even better. if one wanted to make it permanent you could take the lid off and either wire the lid to ground with a wire or make the connection of at least one of those pins on the lid make proper contact. its odd to me why some seem to have this noise and others dont show it. neither of the ones i had showed noise audible enough to worry about. hmmm


I bent one end and stuck it in through a hole (just enough to have some contact with the underside of the top, did not want to get near any of the electronics inside), otherwise it probably wouldn't have helped at all. Like you, I wouldn't be surprised if removing the top and attaching it better made a huge difference. Lucky for me, I don't have issues in regular use, this is just educational for me. So I won't open it up for that.
If I use my other hand to ground myself on the side of the case, I can basically determine the volume of the noise by increasing/decreasing the contact area. There's probably some variability to how poorly grounded the top is.


----------



## MWSVette

I have a couple pieces of Schiit and have not QC issues with any of them.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3 (Jul 14, 2018)

MWSVette said:


> I have a couple pieces of Schiit and have not QC issues with any of them.


nor have i with any of mine. thats a hell of a pile of schiit there


----------



## Alcophone

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> the knob should be fairly easy to straighten if you wanted to.


It's actually the glue (presumably) inside the knob that makes it crooked.

  

This is cute:


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

wow thats pretty schiity lol. but should still be fairly easy to fix with some patience. im kind of surprised they glued the knob on.


----------



## Alcophone

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> wow thats pretty schiity lol. but should still be fairly easy to fix with some patience. im kind of surprised they glued the knob on.


I tried a little bit, but I don't want to break anything off. Maybe heating up to glue would make it a bit malleable. I haven't used the SYS in a while, though, and when I did I stopped noticing after a while (though you feel it a little bit too when turning).


----------



## rutter (Jul 14, 2018)

So I've read Amir's comparative review. As far as sound is concerned his argument appears to be that the poorer measurements of the Jot are reflected in how it sounds. The Jot has a fidelity issue, it smears, it distorts. He even claims that the Jot sounds dull. I had the opposite impression as far as dull is concerned, and this with the $200 Schiit stack. The Micro BL sounded dull to me, rather thin and lacking strength in its sound. I could perhaps see the distortion/fidelity argument but this is based on quite vague benefit of the doubt kind of impression against that basic Schiit stack. The Micro BL is unimpressive, and nothing about its clarity or resolution caught my attention. The Chord Mojo did by contrast, and it wasn't particularly great, but it sounded harsh and too crisp to me without the necessary meat on the crisp bones with the HEXv2. What won me over to the basic Schiit stack was fullness of sound. Then when I went to a Mimby and Jotunheim I was for the first time content (largely because of Sonarworks as well)- full, dynamic yet balanced, clear (I noted the cma400i sounding less clear to me) sound with the LCD-X. Of course I went and blew that up with the Gumby that is still reaching thermal equilibrium over the course of a week (I wonder what part of it is heating up for an entire week) and have inserted an 800S, but anyway.

The one thing I was willing to give the Micro BL the benefit of the doubt with was higher quality music. I don't know what was playing through his Roon player. I suppose it's possible I've been getting a diametrically opposite impression with lower quality music, but I'm baffled by his impression. Just in case the headphones are a confounding factor, while waiting for the Gumby I used the LCD-X with the Nano BL. I mostly stopped listening to music. Despite volume being more than enough power could still be an argument, but I would be absolutely shocked if the Micro BL would make the LCD-X sound like the Mimby + Jot did, and as someone pointed out on his forum single-ended the Jot by specs provides less power than the Micro BL on turbo (and here you run into multiple battery issues). With the same headphone the basic Schiit stack sounded fuller and ultimately better to me.


----------



## rutter

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> wow thats pretty schiity lol. but should still be fairly easy to fix with some patience. im kind of surprised they glued the knob on.



There are some pictures in that review that are questionable. Another forum, that looks pretty run-down and its members seem quite bitter but those aren't grounds to completely dismiss them, seems to disassemble and look at Schiit products more in depth. They don't appear to be fans.


----------



## hornytoad

rutter said:


> So I've read Amir's comparative review. As far as sound is concerned his argument appears to be that the poorer measurements of the Jot are reflected in how it sounds. The Jot has a fidelity issue, it smears, it distorts. He even claims that the Jot sounds dull. I had the opposite impression as far as dull is concerned, and this with the $200 Schiit stack. The Micro BL sounded dull to me, rather thin and lacking strength in its sound. I could perhaps see the distortion/fidelity argument but this is based on quite vague benefit of the doubt kind of impression against that basic Schiit stack. The Micro BL is unimpressive, and nothing about its clarity or resolution caught my attention. The Chord Mojo did by contrast, and it wasn't particularly great, but it sounded harsh and too crisp to me without the necessary meat on the crisp bones with the HEXv2. What won me over to the basic Schiit stack was fullness of sound. Then when I went to a Mimby and Jotunheim I was for the first time content (largely because of Sonarworks as well)- full, dynamic yet balanced, clear (I noted the cma400i sounding less clear to me) sound with the LCD-X. Of course I went and blew that up with the Gumby that is still reaching thermal equilibrium over the course of a week (I wonder what part of it is heating up for an entire week) and have inserted an 800S, but anyway.
> 
> The one thing I was willing to give the Micro BL the benefit of the doubt with was higher quality music. I don't know what was playing through his Roon player. I suppose it's possible I've been getting a diametrically opposite impression with lower quality music, but I'm baffled by his impression. Just in case the headphones are a confounding factor, while waiting for the Gumby I used the LCD-X with the Nano BL. I mostly stopped listening to music. Despite volume being more than enough power could still be an argument, but I would be absolutely shocked if the Micro BL would make the LCD-X sound like the Mimby + Jot did, and as someone pointed out on his forum single-ended the Jot by specs provides less power than the Micro BL on turbo (and here you run into multiple battery issues). With the same headphone the basic Schiit stack sounded fuller and ultimately better to me.


Well Amir also did measurements of the Benchmark Dac1 and compared it to the Yggy . While the Benchmark had superior measurements , I found it very thin sounding .
The Yggy wipes the floor with the Benchmark in every audio category from soundstage to musicality .


----------



## kevlar51

hornytoad said:


> Well Amir also did measurements of the Benchmark Dac1 and compared it to the Yggy . While the Benchmark had superior measurements , I found it very thin sounding .
> The Yggy wipes the floor with the Benchmark in every audio category from soundstage to musicality .



...which again raises the point that _perhaps_ he's not measuring the right things.


----------



## Cruxiaer

I realised with this thread (maybe others too), that if you post anything too informative which reflects badly on the product, you get banned.

I had a few friends over who listened to my basic setup and most of them said the Jot sounded thin and veiled so Amir's claim isn't all that unfounded.


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## the finisher (Jul 14, 2018)

Cruxiaer said:


> I realised with this thread (maybe others too), that if you post anything too informative which reflects badly on the product, you get banned.
> 
> I had a few friends over who listened to my basic setup and most of them said the Jot sounded thin and veiled so Amir's claim isn't all that unfounded.



No one has been _banned _for criticizing the sound characteristics of the Jotunheim.

Also I am not a fan of the D/S dac in my Jot.

I spent a little time reading some things at ASR yesterday, the Schiit hate is on full display there.
Probably a good place to hang out if that's your opinion.


----------



## rutter (Jul 14, 2018)

kevlar51 said:


> ...which again raises the point that _perhaps_ he's not measuring the right things.



Except in this review he claims [at least his] subjective listening impressions match the poor measurements, which is very contrary to my experience.



Cruxiaer said:


> I realised with this thread (maybe others too), that if you post anything too informative which reflects badly on the product, you get banned.
> 
> I had a few friends over who listened to my basic setup and most of them said the Jot sounded thin and veiled so Amir's claim isn't all that unfounded.



That can happen on bad forums. I don't really know if this is such a forum. I have seen Amir being present here and having high level exchanges.

What were you comparing to to have the Jot sound thin and veiled, particularly thin? The Jot seems to be known for being energetic, and I don't think Schiit has a reputation for being thin, especially with the lower priced items. Internal DAC module? Were you by any chance using a headphone like the HD800(S) single-ended? As I experienced yesterday, that's a very bad idea.


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## ToTo Man (Jul 14, 2018)

Cruxiaer said:


> I realised with this thread (maybe others too), that if you post anything too informative which reflects badly on the product, you get banned.
> 
> I had a few friends over who listened to my basic setup and most of them said the Jot sounded thin and veiled so Amir's claim isn't all that unfounded.



Were your friends evaluating the sound of your Jot with its built-in DAC or another DAC?  I understand why some would describe this amp as thin, as it does have a slight lift/bias towards the upper mid and high frequencies, i.e. it isn't a 'warm' sounding amp.  However I don't get the 'veiled' comment.  Jot doesn't sound veiled at all to me, especially through its balanced output.  In fact it's one of the cleanest, fastest and most transparent amp's I've heard.  FWIW I don't have the version with the built-in DAC, IMO it deserves to be paired with the best DAC you can offer it.... mine's paired with Yggy v2.


----------



## rutter

The Mimby at virtually the same price as the DAC module is enough to give a positive presentation of the Jot. There's no such thing as a $400 amp, even a (very) good one, deserving to be paired with the best you can find. By that logic everything might as well deserve to be paired with a top of the line DAC, because why not. Also, the Jot's bass appears to be known to be good so I don't understand where that's coming from either. It definitely isn't a cold amp. Plus I didn't know thin is supposed to be synonymous with bright.


----------



## Cruxiaer (Jul 14, 2018)

I have the Jot with the built in DAC, while I know its not the best I have not tried it with any other DAC so it already sounds pretty good to me.

One of my friend brought over his HiFiMan HE4xx, didn't have a balanced cable so all we could try was with my phone, HTC10(with enhancement off), and Jot's SE output on high gain. Even with the volume knob at around 2PM, it is still softer than the output from the HTC10 at max volume. While I also perceive a veiled sound coming from the Jot, after some reading, I believe the HE4xx would be better served by the Jot with balanced output for the increased power bump. Not something I would try in the near future as my friend don't plan to own a balanced amp, therefore no need for the cable.

I'm using the HD800S, not the HD800, balanced. Which sounds better than using the SE cable/output.

Its always a little confusing when people tend to add s behind every pair of headphones and Sennheiser adding S behind their upgrade headphones but perhaps that is due to the fact that S is also their initial.

edit: I also believe that some of my friends are not used to the flatter response of HD800S and would prefer something warmer.

edit2: Do people group buy True Fi key as it supports up to 3 devices?



rutter said:


> Except in this review he claims [at least his] subjective listening impressions match the poor measurements, which is very contrary to my experience.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





ToTo Man said:


> Were your friends evaluating the sound of your Jot with its built-in DAC or another DAC?  I understand why some would describe this amp as thin, as it does have a slight lift/bias towards the upper mid and high frequencies, i.e. it isn't a 'warm' sounding amp.  However I don't get the 'veiled' comment.  Jot doesn't sound veiled at all to me, especially through its balanced output.  In fact it's one of the cleanest, fastest and most transparent amp's I've heard.  FWIW I don't have the version with the built-in DAC, IMO it deserves to be paired with the best DAC you can offer it.... mine's paired with Yggy v2.


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## Cruxiaer (Jul 14, 2018)

Back when I first got the Jot, I lived in a small apartment building. I frequently heard electrical humming noise coming from the Jot. Wrote in a couple of forums, some told me to get a power conditioner(expensive, so no), some told me to use a different plug/extension/strip(I did), some told me to test it at a friend's place(I did) and it would seem the problem only exist in my apartment. I also wrote to Schiit after all these testing and my findings but they did not respond. So at least in my books, Schiit's customer service is non existent.

After many hours of testing, I realised it was the powerline adapter that was causing the noise. As I couldn't live without the powerline, I had to live with the noise.

I now live in a much bigger house, still use powerline but I can no longer hear the noises. I can only assume it is due to different circuit design.

However, I have a pair of Audioengine A2+ and one day, I hooked it up to my Jot via the preamp. It sounded great at first but as soon as I launched a game, coil whine/frame rate whine can be heard very audibly through my speakers so I'm back to using USB out for them. Which is also weird because I don't hear it using headphones.


----------



## rutter (Jul 14, 2018)

I had an HE400i but didn't try it with the Jot. The Magni 3 seemed to drive it well, although the Magni 3 actually has more power single-ended than the Jot but I don't think it should sound better. The 400i/4XX shouldn't be that hard to drive, although I guess I should've tried. Single-ended I've mostly used easy to drive higher end headphones in the HEXv2 and LCD-X with the Jot. The difference with the HD800S and single-ended vs balanced is enormous with the Jot (balanced connection to a new Gumby). Single-ended the 800S sounds dry, thin, and distant. Balanced transforms it. Full, present, bass that vibrates, much better imaging. Unfortunately the 800S itself I'm inclined to believe still sounds slightly thin, which perhaps better amps would improve, but the LCD-X doesn't sound thin at all. The 800S balanced with what I have is something. What I don't know is if this is mostly a matter of the Jot lacking single-ended power for that hard to drive headphone or balanced having other advantages. Also, I get rather impressive bass balanced with the Jot + Gumby and 800S. To the point where people who try the LCD-X single-ended vs the 800S balanced on my set-up claim that the 800S has more and better bass. Imagine that.

I just bought Sonarworks True-Fi for myself.


----------



## hikaru12

rutter said:


> I had an HE400i but didn't try it with the Jot.



I think you'd rather enjoy this pairing. Instead of amplifying the brightness of the 400i or Sundara it actually seems to smooth them out while improving on their great bass for their price. Treble shimmer is a lot more enjoyable with this combination. It may be that when I was using balanced cables with them the lower distortion, background noise, and more forward nature of the Jot brought out some of the strengths of these cans while lessening their weaknesses. Not sure - but supposedly the Jot board 2.0 is a lot more forgiving especially when left on all the time while still maintaining the aggressive nature that has made me a fan with my preference for warmer cans.


----------



## ToTo Man (Jul 14, 2018)

rutter said:


> The Mimby at virtually the same price as the DAC module is enough to give a positive presentation of the Jot. There's no such thing as a $400 amp, even a (very) good one, deserving to be paired with the best you can find. By that logic everything might as well deserve to be paired with a top of the line DAC, because why not. Also, the Jot's bass appears to be known to be good so I don't understand where that's coming from either. It definitely isn't a cold amp. Plus I didn't know thin is supposed to be synonymous with bright.


By saying "best DAC you can offer it", I was trying to convey my experience that Jot is transparent and revealing enough to continue to scale and improve with better and better DACs.  I liked my Jot when I originally had it paired with my Bifrost 4490, however upgrading to the Yggy v2 has taken it's performance to another league.  IMO it is illogical to say that Jot doesn't benefit from and/or deserve a DAC costing more than $xxx because the amp only costs $400.  I am however in no doubt that the $250 Mimby will bring much better performance from the Jot than its internal 4490 card, as has already been widely acknowledged.


----------



## rutter (Jul 14, 2018)

I dislike the 400i after trying much more expensive headphones. Interesting to read that the Jot had the opposite effect on treble than you might expect given certain statements.

You can't say that the Jot scales well with better DACs unless you establish that other comparable amps don't scale well with better DACs. If everything scales then it's about the DAC, not the amp. One thing I keep reading about the Jot, by the way, is that it holds soundstage back. I lack the reference points to evaluate those claims though. Will see if I choose to buy the Gustard H20.


----------



## rutter

So @Cruxiaer, what DAC module do you have with the Jot and how exactly do your HD800S sound balanced?


----------



## GrussGott (Jul 14, 2018)

Alcophone said:


> he measured some power supply hum and noticed that *the top does not appear to be grounded*. He then grounded the top to one of the RCA outs and the measured hum went away. Quite interesting, possibly a solution for [ignore]



This is why I don't have fancy power strips, power conditioners, etc (yet) - not that I think they won't help in some way (no matter how small) ... but for me I immediately eliminated them as a solution to my Jot noise problem; here how:

I have a plantronics wireless laptop headset - If i'm on a call and touch the Jot, immediate disconnect.  This was also the case for the unshielded power cable that came with the Jot - if I grabbed it, immediate disconnect.  What can I say, I'm big into MacGyvering routine stuff into crappy versions of real equipment.

Anyway, this told me there's a lot of EMF coming off that power cord, plus, for whatever reason, the Jot case isn't part of the ground plane (maybe, I'm no expert despite years of electrical engineering in college -- I blame the educational system).  Thus I bought the Pangea AWG14 shielded power cord and plugged directly into the wall.  This fixed the EMF problem and I can grab that cable now with nary a jitter from my headset.

As for the Jot, I figured if Jason doesn't think it needs to part of ground-plane then I won't second guess that (again maybe it is, or is supposed to be, I'm making Schiit up), but that means possible interference there so I got the AQ cables that I believe are only grounded on DOWNSTREAM side (thus the arrows, also because that's the way the cooper is extruded), meaning only on the DAC side.  I also got an Eitr and, again, connected it with an AQ digital cable to stop any laptop noise from coming UPSTREAM.

Thus, in my simple mind, I've prevented upstream PC noise with the Eitr, upstream DAC noise with the AQ cables, and sending the power-cord noise into the wall.

Is all that theory right?  Feck if I know, but practically speaking it worked and I'm here for the music not the "science" so I don't give a schiit why.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

so i just got off the phone with a local friend who bought a jot off ebay and i thought i remembered him saying it was noisy as well and he emailed schiit a while back but because it was used there was no warranty. he is going to drop it off to me tomm for me to mess with im going to try making a grounding strap for the lid if its the same situation. i was working last night trying to respond and i got swamped with an IT issue that was a huge issue there so i had to get out of the office lol.


----------



## hornytoad

I have zero expertise in audio engineering but even I am a little concerned about the grounding issue Amirm discovered when testing the Jotty .


----------



## GrussGott (Jul 14, 2018)

hornytoad said:


> I have zero expertise in audio engineering but even I am a little concerned about the grounding issue Amirm discovered when testing the Jotty .



I don't think there's a "grounding issue" - I think different electronic products will behave differently in different environments.  E.g., you buy a USB cable and you notice it takes a little longer to transfer files, but you're fine with that because the cable was cheaper.

Everything has trade-offs.  My tires are great on dry pavement, but not quite as good in the rain and downright dangerous below 40^ F or on ice and snow.


----------



## hornytoad

GrussGott said:


> I don't think there's a "grounding issue" - I think different electronic products will behave differently in different environments.  E.g., you buy a USB cable and you notice it takes a little longer to transfer files, but you're fine with that because the cable was cheaper.
> 
> Everything has trade-offs.  My tires are great on dry pavement, but not quite as good in the rain and downright dangerous below 40^ F or on ice and snow.


Well Amirm over at Audio Science seems to have a problem with every Schiit product he tests . 
I have never seen anything like it .


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## rutter (Jul 14, 2018)

GrussGott said:


> I don't think there's a "grounding issue" - I think different electronic products will behave differently in different environments.  E.g., you buy a USB cable and you notice it takes a little longer to transfer files, but you're fine with that because the cable was cheaper.
> 
> Everything has trade-offs.  My tires are great on dry pavement, but not quite as good in the rain and downright dangerous below 40^ F or on ice and snow.



The poster is referring to a review you apparently haven't read. And the Jots that are acting out in different environments are starting to pile up. Give it a break. For crying out loud, you made a hobby out of trying to eliminate noise from the Jot. Good grief, is it that hard to understand some of us want straightforward products that don't make you spend more time and money on trying to iron them out? You have a warped notion of what this is all about. If you want to practice something sign up for a college course, stop spouting nonsense. If you actually bother reading every post others are elaborating on this a little.

This dude's tires are great on dry pavement... o, my, God.


----------



## GrussGott

hornytoad said:


> Well Amirm over at Audio Science seems to have a problem with every Schiit product he tests .
> I have never seen anything like it .


----------



## PointyFox

So when I build an amp with a ground loop or don't isolate parts well enough, it's just the amp behaving differently and they aren't actually problems?


----------



## bfreedma

PointyFox said:


> So when I build an amp with a ground loop or don't isolate parts well enough, it's just the amp behaving differently and they aren't actually problems?



You know this to be the case, or are you just parroting someone from another web site? If the latter, you might want to vet the source, the source’s history and agenda.


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## the finisher (Jul 14, 2018)

PointyFox said:


> So when I build an amp with a ground loop or don't isolate parts well enough, it's just the amp behaving differently and they aren't actually problems?



You don't build an amp with a ground loop.
This can occur for various reasons, having nothing to do with the amp design.


----------



## bfreedma

the finisher said:


> You don't build an amp with a ground loop.
> This can occur for various reasons, having nothing to do with the amp design.



Absolutely correct, but why let the most basic of facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory?


----------



## GrussGott (Jul 14, 2018)

PointyFox said:


> So when I build an amp with a ground loop or don't isolate parts well enough, it's just the amp behaving differently and they aren't actually problems?



*(1.) You can't "build an amp with a ground loop"*  - it's the user that creates the ground loop.
"loop" is the functional word there: you configure the amp such that it's electrically connected (via interconnects) to, say, a DAC, and then you power each with different sources that have differing grounds.  That is, YOU created the ground loop, not the manufacturer.  _One-sided interconnects can help here, amongst all the other stuff already discussed._

*(2.) There is no such thing as "isolate parts well enough"* (well violating consumer protection laws I suppose) - the designer can simply increase isolation with diminishing returns and increasing cost.
At some point the designer must make a product decision and the consumer can choose their price point.  Think of it as braking distance from 60 mph: as long a car meets the minimum standard it brakes "well enough", but a sports car can brake much harder and much longer than a mini-van.  _Taking steps to eliminate EMI, like shielded power cords, can help here, plus all the other stuff already mentioned._

*(3.) Each consumer's environment and use-case is unique - *see point #1.  I live in a 25 story condo building in a major downtown, an EMI disaster, whereas someone else might live in the country with their own clean power supply and little EMI.

If one is unhappy with the trade-offs of the Jot, buy a different amp.  *What's with all the biitching about it? *  It's like saying, "Every time I track my Chevy Aveo the brakes heat soak "  Upgrade the brakes or buy a track car.


----------



## kevlar51

Frankly it’s a miracle of science that the Jot can produce any audio at all. It’s essentially an aluminum box filled with a mess of wires and circuits.


----------



## GrussGott

kevlar51 said:


> Frankly it’s a miracle of science that the Jot can produce any audio at all. *It’s essentially an aluminum box filled with a mess of wires and circuits*.



and also


----------



## the finisher (Jul 14, 2018)

Speaking of love, and cost no object, @bfreedma  I am lusting after that amp in your avatar.

Someday I will upgrade the Jot. and when that day comes the Headamp GS-X mk2 is my current choice.
Being that that my main system is going to also be used for music creation, I will stay Solid State here. You could not do any better IME

I see you also have a Woo Audio WA6-SE, well covered on the amp front


----------



## bfreedma (Jul 14, 2018)

the finisher said:


> Speaking of love, and cost no object, @bfreedma  I am lusting after that amp in your avatar.
> 
> Someday I will upgrade the Jot. and when that day comes the Headamp GS-X mk2 is my current choice.
> Being that that my main system is going to also be used for music creation, I will stay Solid State here. You could not do any better IME
> ...




Thanks for the compliment(s).  I’m very happy with the GS-X mk2 and doubt I’ll ever be tempted to look at other SS options.

Headamp  has really gotten better organized, so when you’re ready to buy, they appear to be in stock.  I waited a little over a year for mine back when Justin was more of a one man show - wasn’t an issue as as the wait was well known.  Of course, the longer you wait for your GSX, the better it sounds 

The 6-SE makes for a nice change up, but the GSX gets used about 95% of the time.

Edit.  After your post, I checked my profile and noticed that I hadn’t added the Yggdrasil to the gear list.  Thanks for the reminder - it’s only been a year or so...


----------



## the finisher

I will never part with mine.


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## Th3Drizzl3 (Jul 16, 2018)

so after getting the noisy one here in my office at home i verified it is indeed noisy (note my personal jot is NOT noisy plugged in exactly the same way to the same components) and its noticeable for sure. i went ahead and used a small wire and grounded the lid and basically it eliminated the noise there is a very tiny hint left when the volume it cranked up pretty good but its 90+% better. so i am now going to make a more permanent fix for this one. but yes in fact the noise was almost gone doing this. im now curious to know why some make noise and some dont im going to take mine apart tomm and see if maybe the connection is better there.


----------



## MonoOno

The reason I never bought a Jotunheim is because I was scared it too would have hum issues like my Asgard 2 which hummed like a damn truck. I finally got a ground loop which got rid of the hum but it also seemingly cut my volume by half. Loved the Asgard 2 but settled on a O2 which got rid of the hum and was louder.


----------



## the finisher

This appears to be a issue Schiit needs to deal with. I'm sure they watch this thread, but the sooner they know the better.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> so after getting the noisy one here in my office at home i verified it is indeed noisy (note my personal jot is NOT noisy plugged in exactly the same way to the same components) and its noticeable for sure. i went ahead and used a small wire and grounded the lid and basically it eliminated the noise there is a very tiny hint left when the volume it cranked up pretty good but its 90+% better. so i am now going to make a more permanent fix for this one. but yes in fact the noise was almost gone doing this. im now curious to know why some make noise and some dont im going to take mine apart tomm and see if maybe the connection is better there.



This is really odd. 

Can you provide details of where you're experiencing this noise (what volume level, what components connected, what cables, etc)? Or do it via PM or email jason@schiit.com if you'd like.

Also, can you post photos of how you grounded the lid? Because simply touching a wire to an anodized aluminum part won't form a ground. The top should be grounded through the contact of the pins with the unpainted steel chassis slots--the pins were specifically designed for us by Penn Engineering, the originator of this type of fastener, and we have shipped thousands of these products, including hundreds with phono boards, with no issues. 

Again, if anyone is having problems with hum and noise (at normal listening levels--all amps will have some residual hum and noise when turned all the way up), first try the troubleshooting steps at schiit.com to ensure you don't have a ground loop and it is not related to cables, etc), please contact us and we'll get it taken care of.


----------



## MWSVette

A response from the man himself.  It does not get any better than that....


----------



## rutter

I'll be getting an HDVA 600 today so that'll be the second amp I can compare the Jot to in terms of noise. I might even have to use the Jot's power cable with it so the environment should be exactly the same.

I've run into some notable ear ringing I'm finding pretty strange. I even think my ears have rung without listening to music much, mostly just playing a game that doesn't even have background music.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ear-ringing-with-certain-headphones.884243/

The sixth post suggests amp distortion could be a factor. If there's any truth to that it would be pretty upsetting. I've been thinking of sending my Jot to the Th3Drizzl3 (I'll cover the shipping to and back) before Schiit, but in light of this recent suggestion resorting to asking Amir to have a look at it seems like a reasonable thing to do. It could be that the Jot and the HD800S are a really bad pairing, even though I've gone ahead and left both the Gumby and Jot on constantly in order to smooth things out as much as possible.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3 (Jul 16, 2018)

i scraped part of the underside clean so there was no coating and it was fresh i then wrapped a bare wire through one of the lids holes and was able to pull up on it pretty good against the bare area. and i grounded the outer rca barrel to the lid. also note without anything plugged in except power this noise was there. i tried with a topping d50 as well as the mimby both had noise. (again the other 2 jots i have here do not have noise) its a fairly steady hum that gets louder as the volume goes up. a humming not a whine. you mentioned the unpainted slots. the slots in this one were totally painted over. the paint went in the edge of the keyhole. once i scraped the paint away from the keyhole better the noise also subsided. i was going to solder a wire to the lid but turns out i did not have to. just by removing some excess paint it fixed the issue. im happy to answer anything i can. but im wondering if some of those pins are making better contact then others??

edit: not that im saying anything good or bad about the guy (i dont want to get into an arguement here with anyone) looks like the guy over at asr forum also had the same idea someone just told me he basically did the same thing as i did to fix the noise. he also says it was gone for him doing this as well.


----------



## rutter

CMX-2 arrived. Its indicator shows "line correct" and no difference is made to the background noise.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> i scraped part of the underside clean so there was no coating and it was fresh i then wrapped a bare wire through one of the lids holes and was able to pull up on it pretty good against the bare area. and i grounded the outer rca barrel to the lid. also note without anything plugged in except power this noise was there. i tried with a topping d50 as well as the mimby both had noise. (again the other 2 jots i have here do not have noise) its a fairly steady hum that gets louder as the volume goes up. a humming not a whine. you mentioned the unpainted slots. the slots in this one were totally painted over. the paint went in the edge of the keyhole. once i scraped the paint away from the keyhole better the noise also subsided. i was going to solder a wire to the lid but turns out i did not have to. just by removing some excess paint it fixed the issue. im happy to answer anything i can. but im wondering if some of those pins are making better contact then others??
> 
> edit: not that im saying anything good or bad about the guy (i dont want to get into an arguement here with anyone) looks like the guy over at asr forum also had the same idea someone just told me he basically did the same thing as i did to fix the noise. he also says it was gone for him doing this as well.



Thanks for the additional detail.

Since I'm now in the office, I pulled several Jotunheims off the line and checked chassis continuity. They're all good. So the pins are working as intended. I also checked the slot masking, and they are masked as intended. The masking is only on the edges of the slot, not on top, but they are showing bare metal as intended. This isn't to say that some might not make contact, but it's easy enough to add a check in production. I'll write that up today and get that rolling.

However, here's the thing that's odd: I can't replicate your hum results. 

I took a chassis, unscrewed the screw that is used to ground the board to the bottom chassis, and put a top on it with no pins (literally taped it on). So the chassis was completely floating. The result: no exceptional hum and noise on the APx555 (just the standard residual power-supply stuff), see attached image. However, with the volume at midpoint, this one gave me extra 60Hz hum when the volume knob was touched. This was still 90dB+ down from the fundamental, however.

I then screwed down the board to the bottom chassis to ground the bottom chassis alone, and put a top on it with no pins. So the top was completely floating, but the bottom was grounded. The result: same as above, except the noise floor was no longer sensitive to touching the volume knob. See attached image--results overlay.

I then put a top on the grounded bottom chassis and verified it was grounded. The result: same as above, and the volume knob was still insensitive to touch. See attached image--all results overlay)




 

Again, if you're having problems with hum and noise on your Jotunheim (or any other product, or any other problem), contact us at info@schiit.com and we'll take care of it. If we can't replicate your problem, we always contact you for more information to see how we can help, and provide measurements from the AP or Avermetrics if needed.


----------



## Alcophone

Jason Stoddard said:


> Thanks for the additional detail.
> 
> Since I'm now in the office, I pulled several Jotunheims off the line and checked chassis continuity. They're all good. So the pins are working as intended. I also checked the slot masking, and they are masked as intended. The masking is only on the edges of the slot, not on top, but they are showing bare metal as intended. This isn't to say that some might not make contact, but it's easy enough to add a check in production. I'll write that up today and get that rolling.
> 
> ...


Hey Jason,

Thanks for looking into it.
Amir has created a separate thread with instructions, and a picture of the open Jotunheim. Unfortunately his side is down right now, but when it's back up, it might provide some further clues.
Can you show a picture of what a Jotunheim is supposed to look like with the top off? And maybe highlight where there shouldn't be any paint/coating, both on the steel chassis and the aluminum top?

Thank you!


----------



## rutter

Got the HDVA 600. Surprisingly to me it does have the same noise as the Jotunheim (the CMA400i somehow didn't). I'm using both the CMX-2 and Hum-X. It didn't come with its own power cable so I'm using the Jot's power cable. The USB and interconnect cables are Schiit, Gumby is the DAC.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Alcophone said:


> Hey Jason,
> 
> Thanks for looking into it.
> Amir has created a separate thread with instructions, and a picture of the open Jotunheim. Unfortunately his side is down right now, but when it's back up, it might provide some further clues.
> ...



It's pretty hard to show, it's literally just the inside edges of the slot. You can't even really see it here.


----------



## Alcophone

Jason Stoddard said:


> It's pretty hard to show, it's literally just the inside edges of the slot. You can't even really see it here.


Aaah, that's good info. I expected the top part to be unpainted or something, which wasn't the case in Amir's picture. Thank you!


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

rutter said:


> I'll be getting an HDVA 600 today so that'll be the second amp I can compare the Jot to in terms of noise. I might even have to use the Jot's power cable with it so the environment should be exactly the same.
> 
> I've run into some notable ear ringing I'm finding pretty strange. I even think my ears have rung without listening to music much, mostly just playing a game that doesn't even have background music.
> 
> ...


my next test will be to directly solder a lead to the under side of the lid and then solder it to ground. it will add a wire that will make the lid not fully removable but would be permanent.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

Jason Stoddard said:


> It's pretty hard to show, it's literally just the inside edges of the slot. You can't even really see it here.


jason this one had a decent amount of paint in the keyhole there was a bare spot but it was minimal. i used a exacto knife and scraped away the paint all the way around and then scraped the paint on top a bit. then when testing i did have a pretty solid ground.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> jason this one had a decent amount of paint in the keyhole there was a bare spot but it was minimal. i used a exacto knife and scraped away the paint all the way around and then scraped the paint on top a bit. then when testing i did have a pretty solid ground.



Yep, the chassis we have here look correct, but I'm putting a "Jotunheim and Lyr 3 Chassis Grounding Test Procedure" together right now just to be sure in the future. (Lyr 3s use the same pins.)

Thanks for the info!


----------



## Alcophone

@Jason Stoddard Amir's site is back up. I'll mail you the link to his dedicated thread, but it looks like he's indeed suggesting to sand the inside of the keyhole. That wasn't clear to me before.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

Jason Stoddard said:


> Yep, the chassis we have here look correct, but I'm putting a "Jotunheim and Lyr 3 Chassis Grounding Test Procedure" together right now just to be sure in the future. (Lyr 3s use the same pins.)
> 
> Thanks for the info!


nice! my black jot i just opened (no noise) is clearly bare metal inside the keyhole. not at all like the silver one just fyi.


----------



## Alcophone

Amir would like @Jason Stoddard to know this:


> Please let Jason know that in addition to the keyholes, the bottom case also has paint in the chamfer where the grounding screw goes. I first fixed the keyhole and was surprised it was still not grounded until I discovered the issue with the bottom screw as I documented in my original post.


No, we're not one and the same person. I am NwAvGuy.

KIDDING


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Alcophone said:


> Amir would like @Jason Stoddard to know this:
> 
> No, we're not one and the same person. I am NwAvGuy.
> 
> KIDDING



None of the ones I've tested were like that. The paint is ground out of the chamfer during manufacturing specifically for that purpose.

In any case, the new test procedure checks for grounding in toto, and went into effect today. All shipping Jotunheims were checked and found to have proper grounding. Tomorrow we'll go through the rest of the stock just to be sure.

Again, if you have issues with your specific Jotunheim (or any other product), please contact us at info@schiit.com and we'll be happy to take care of it.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3 (Jul 16, 2018)

awesome to hear you guys doing that. im guessing there were a few maybe that somehow slipped through. if i ever hear one again ill prob go ahead and see if i can get the unit to them so they can see it first hand. ill check my lyr when it gets here but im sure it will be fine. out of all the schiit gear ive had myself (its been a LOT lol) ive only had the ONE unit i know personally of that was buzzing like this. otherwise i have not heard one like that.

and a huge thank you to jason and schiit for putting procedures like this in place as soon as something was found. it makes a HUGE difference and really shows they do care and want to put out the best they can. i know im a fan and have been for a long time. many other companies would have scoffed at what a couple people found and been to big headed to even care. it means a lot!!


----------



## rutter

Jason Stoddard said:


> None of the ones I've tested were like that. The paint is ground out of the chamfer during manufacturing specifically for that purpose.
> 
> In any case, the new test procedure checks for grounding in toto, and went into effect today. All shipping Jotunheims were checked and found to have proper grounding. Tomorrow we'll go through the rest of the stock just to be sure.
> 
> Again, if you have issues with your specific Jotunheim (or any other product), please contact us at info@schiit.com and we'll be happy to take care of it.



Can I get a replacement Jot first and then send mine back? I don't have another amplifier.

Also, I'm not sure this ground issue is the end of it. I get the same type of noise to I think the same degree with a new HDVA 600 whereas I got only what you describe as expected slight noise at the end far from listening volume with a CMA400i. Seems like too much of a coincidence. I used the Jot's power cable with the HDVA 600. The other cables are in play as well, all of them bought from you. If I'm not mistaken one of the reviews the Gumby's product page quotes mentions that the Gumby has an exceptionally poor noise floor. An Asgard 2 here, a Magni 3 there, other comments elsewhere. By now it seems like a bunch of Jots have something going on. Amir mentioned other noise in his review as well, he thinks via USB whereas his Micro BL was silent same as mine. Given GrussGott eliminated noise from his Jot by replacing all the cables (I already have a Hum-X and CMX-2 with the Hum-X I think eliminating one of the multiple noises I have heard from my Jot) I think you should be looking into your cables as well.


----------



## the finisher (Jul 17, 2018)

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> awesome to hear you guys doing that. im guessing there were a few maybe that somehow slipped through. if i ever hear one again ill prob go ahead and see if i can get the unit to them so they can see it first hand. ill check my lyr when it gets here but im sure it will be fine. out of all the schiit gear ive had myself (its been a LOT lol) ive only had the ONE unit i know personally of that was buzzing like this. otherwise i have not heard one like that.
> 
> and a huge thank you to jason and schiit for putting procedures like this in place as soon as something was found. it makes a HUGE difference and really shows they do care and want to put out the best they can. i know im a fan and have been for a long time. many other companies would have scoffed at what a couple people found and been to big headed to even care. it means a lot!!




What he said


----------



## Alcophone

First you say this...


rutter said:


> Can I get a replacement Jot first and then send mine back? I don't have another amplifier.



And then you list two other amps that you have...


rutter said:


> I get the same type of noise to I think the same degree with a new HDVA 600 whereas I got only what you describe as expected slight noise at the end far from listening volume with a CMA400i.


Or did you just borrow them?

But you know that's not how it works. When you get your first microwave, and it has issues, and you send it in for repair, do you think you are entitled to a loaner microwave? Well, you aren't. You'll have to suck it up and live without a microwave for a few weeks.

Presumably you have lived years without an amp before. Don't worry, you can do it again.


----------



## rutter

Alcophone said:


> First you say this...
> 
> 
> And then you list two other amps that you have...
> ...



Erm,

1) The HDVA 600 is getting returned because it sucks and I need the money.

2) When the Loki was clearly defective I got the replacement... well, I think that one may have worked simultaneously. That's a bummer. This is so pleasant.  If I could find a solid state amp that is guaranteed to work beautifully with the 800S I'd let shipping and them take a full month if so they desire, but alas, I might have to start pming th3drizzl3 (what a name, by the way) about hospital grade power cords and spend even more money trying to fix the Jot myself. Did I forget to mention how much fun this is!!??


----------



## Alcophone (Jul 17, 2018)

GrussGott said:


> The next likely source is if your audio equipment is near anything with an electrical transformer: appliances, TVs, computers, heat guns apparently ... a $20 EMF meter from a hardware store is fun to play with to understand the causes unique to you (don't assume they'll be obvious).


Today I received a TriField TF2 EMF meter. Fun little thing! Some of the cheaper ones were marketed as being suitable for hunting ghost. No, thanks...
Last week I also received my first and only shielded power cord, a Volex 17604 (2m, 14 AWG).

So I played some more with the Jotunheim, whatever ~6 ft 18 AWG power cord came with the Topping DX7s, a 6 ft 14 AWG power cord from Tripp Lite, and the shielded 2m power cord from Volex.
With the unshielded power cords driving the Jotunheim, I'm measuring around 500 V/m with the unweighted ELEC setting. The readings are quite dependent on how straight the cable is at the measured section and the meter orientation.
With the shielded power cord driving the Jotunheim, I'm measuring around 60 V/m with the unweighted ELEC setting. So the shield is definitely present and effective! There are probably cables with more effective shielding, but this is a significant reduction.
What was the effect on the noise at max volume / high gain / SE selected / nothing connected but headphones and power / touching the knob? Well, none.
However, with the shielded power cord I can touch the volume knob with one hand and the power cord with the other, and the noise is the same. With the unshielded ones, that makes the noise 3x as loud. Interestingly even when touching an unshielded power cord that is plugged into the wall, but not connected to any device.
So while it has not made a difference for this artificial scenario, it demonstrates that the shield is effective. A shielded power cord is probably still a good idea if the cord runs close to other cables, especially in parallel. Too bad Volex only makes a 2m and a 3m version. I'll have to check my power strip cables for shielding, too. The cable in the Tripp Lite TLP606 surge protector that I took apart is not shielded.

I also took my "Anti-Static Field Service Kit" home, with a ground plug adapter I got from Digikey. I wanted to see whether being grounded with a wrist strap prevents the noise when touching the volume knob.
Well... it does not. It eliminated some small part of the noise, but for the most part it was still there. Thinking about it, the wrist strap has a 1 megaohm resistor on it that probably makes the Jotunheim chassis the path of least resistance. Touching a metal outlet cover, however, completely removed the extra noise from touching the volume knob, leaving only the normal faint hiss.

I noticed that in my kitchen, the noise is significantly lower when touching the volume knob, even hard to hear (unless I touch an unshielded power cord). The fridge wasn't cooling in that moment, and there aren't many electronic devices in my kitchen.
Very different story in my living room. But even disconnecting the WiFi router didn't have a noticeable impact, despite the crazy readings it produces on the EMF Meter (> 100 milligauss up close with the unweighted MAG setting, > 20 mW/m^2 with the RF setting, even from 3m away, when in front of the three antennas). It would be interesting to see what the biggest culprits are. Sadly, there are many candidates, so that's an exercise for the weekend.


----------



## the finisher (Jul 17, 2018)

I stopped all ignoring, because it messes with my responses, as I can't see everything I'm responding to.

Not a Schiit issue but consider the source, and I understand.



rutter said:


> The HDVA 600 is getting returned because it sucks



Really, I gets good reviews on Amazon, 6 out of 7 love it. It's overpriced compared too, and does not have the preamp capabilities of the Jotunheim.

If you need the cash then send it back without comment. But "it sucks' is too harsh IMO, so I'll see your posts, but not respond, hope it works out for you.


----------



## GrussGott

Alcophone said:


> Today I received a TriField TF2 EMF meter. Fun little thing! Some of the cheaper ones were marketed as being suitable for hunting ghost. No, thanks...
> Last week I also received my first and only shielded power cord, a Volex 17604 (2m, 14 AWG).
> 
> So I played some more with the Jotunheim, whatever ~6 ft 18 AWG power cord came with the Topping DX7s, a 6 ft 14 AWG power cord from Tripp Lite, and the shielded 2m power cord from Volex.
> It would be interesting to see what the biggest culprits are. Sadly, there are many candidates, so that's an exercise for the weekend.



WOW!  you're badarse!  That's a pretty nice EMF meter ... your experiments will be super interesting.

Needless to say, many people have found when they rearrange their (even shielded) interconnects away from (even shielded) power cords they get much better sound quality and/or eliminate noise.  Many times cheaper shielded interconnects will say "100% shielded" which is misleading because that doesn't mean 100% of the EMF doesn't have an effect (which you can test with a volt meter)

For me, the Jot is a great SS amp, but you do need some "audio hygiene" to get the best out of it.


----------



## rutter

By the way, is there any danger of getting electrocuted by the Jot? I've seen that claim and want to make sure.


----------



## jimmers

the finisher said:


> I stopped all ignoring, because it messes with my responses, as I can't see everything I'm responding to..


I am ignoring, but if curiosity gets the better of me and I feel up to it, I click "Show Ignored Content" at the bottom RHS of the page.


----------



## sup27606

rutter said:


> By the way, is there any danger of getting electrocuted by the Jot? I've seen that claim and want to make sure.



Make sure, no body part hanging or sticking out near Jot.


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## sixstringmonk (Jul 17, 2018)

Just in case anyone is curious about SE vs Balanced output with the Multibit Jot and HD6XXs:

I received a Massdrop / Venture Electronics 1.2M balanced cable today. My initial impressions are that it sounds considerably "better" than the stock SE cable. There's an obvious volume difference, but my following thoughts are after doing a quick check at compensating volumes. There are more upper mids / lower highs for sure. Sounds warmer, more vibrant, and less grainy. The bass seems a little bigger but not drastically expanded. On the con side, it almost seems like there is a tiny bit less soundstage and... could be due to everything sounding just "more".

All in all, I my initial thoughts are this was a worthwhile upgrade, but I have a nagging suspicion that the under 40 crowd might prefer the subdued highs of the SE cable.


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## GrussGott (Jul 17, 2018)

sup27606 said:


> Make sure, no body part hanging or sticking out near Jot.







First 5 min of this one are good too, when it comes to computer output to the DAC and its effect on SQ (USB vs SPDIF and ground-plane "pollution"):


----------



## the finisher

sixstringmonk said:


> Just in case anyone is curious about SE vs Balanced output with the Multibit Jot and HD6XXs:
> 
> I received a Massdrop / Venture Electronics 1.2M balanced cable today. My initial impressions are that it sounds considerably "better" than the stock SE cable. There's an obvious volume difference, but my following thoughts are after doing a quick check at compensating volumes. There are more upper mids / lower highs for sure. Sounds warmer, more vibrant, and less grainy. The bass seems a little bigger but not drastically expanded. On the con side, it almost seems like there is a tiny bit less soundstage and... could be due to everything sounding just "more".
> 
> All in all, I my initial thoughts are this was a worthwhile upgrade, but I have a nagging suspicion that the under 40 crowd might prefer the subdued highs of the SE cable.



Welcome to the forum fellow Minnesota music monk


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## rutter (Jul 18, 2018)

sixstringmonk said:


> Just in case anyone is curious about SE vs Balanced output with the Multibit Jot and HD6XXs:
> 
> I received a Massdrop / Venture Electronics 1.2M balanced cable today. My initial impressions are that it sounds considerably "better" than the stock SE cable. There's an obvious volume difference, but my following thoughts are after doing a quick check at compensating volumes. There are more upper mids / lower highs for sure. Sounds warmer, more vibrant, and less grainy. The bass seems a little bigger but not drastically expanded. On the con side, it almost seems like there is a tiny bit less soundstage and... could be due to everything sounding just "more".
> 
> All in all, I my initial thoughts are this was a worthwhile upgrade, but I have a nagging suspicion that the under 40 crowd might prefer the subdued highs of the SE cable.



In my experience with an HD800S it could be a matter of power. The Sennheisers are high impedance headphones and Sennheiser doesn't seem to provide optimal power figures like Audeze does. It could be that the Jot just lacks power single-ended. Unfortunately I don't have a balanced cable to test this with an LCD-X. Single-ended the low impedance LCD-X sounds much better than the HD800S single-ended through the Jot.


----------



## the finisher

My power cords

Analysis Plus Pro Power Oval


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

as an update i have had no further noise issues with the jot that i fixed the ground on. and about the se vs xlr the jot imo is for sure better using the balanced then the se output. there is for sure a difference and it sounds better. imo its really the way it should be used.


----------



## rutter

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> as an update i have had no further noise issues with the jot that i fixed the ground on. and about the se vs xlr the jot imo is for sure better using the balanced then the se output. there is for sure a difference and it sounds better. imo its really the way it should be used.



Headphones used?


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## GrussGott (Jul 19, 2018)

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> as an update i have had no further noise issues with the jot that i fixed the ground on. and about the se vs xlr the jot imo is for sure better using the balanced then the se output. there is for sure a difference and it sounds better. imo its really the way it should be used.



I think that might be headphone dependent - on the HD600 I don't hear a difference and on the TH-X00 _mmmaaayyybbeee _there's a difference but I couldn't say for sure.  For me the switch up to AQ USB, SPDIF, and and interconnects is much more obvious.

I'll try it with some ZMF dynamics ... I'm thinking higher Z headphones that need the power bump might make the difference more obvious, but it didn't on the HD600s, at least to my ear ...


----------



## Pott

I was intrigued by this noise/hum issue so I plugged the HD650s into a Jotunheim (w/ DAC). Stock cable, SE output. 
Turned the volume all the way up. DEAD quiet. I ordered mine shortly after it came out so it's an early one.
With the iBasso IT01s there's a definite hum and a hiss, but I wasn't listening to music since it'd be WAY too loud. I don't use IEMs with desktop amps anyway.

For what it's worth the Jot is plugged into a Furman EMI/RFI/Surge protector.


----------



## Tuneslover

Pott said:


> I was intrigued by this noise/hum issue so I plugged the HD650s into a Jotunheim (w/ DAC). Stock cable, SE output.
> Turned the volume all the way up. DEAD quiet. I ordered mine shortly after it came out so it's an early one.
> With the iBasso IT01s there's a definite hum and a hiss, but I wasn't listening to music since it'd be WAY too loud. I don't use IEMs with desktop amps anyway.
> 
> For what it's worth the Jot is plugged into a Furman EMI/RFI/Surge protector.



Yeah mine is an earlier version too and I have had no hum or noise issues either.


----------



## GrussGott

Everyone's system config and environment is TOTALLY different, so a lot of this is about finding our commonalities and then any common-cause in the Jot - as we'd do with any product as part of its continuous improvement cycle.

What I love about Schiit (and a few other vendors) is they're company leaders and designers are here and work directly with us to do that - that's unique and much appreciated.


----------



## PointyFox (Jul 21, 2018)

Update: Got a new Jotunheim. Plugged it into the same power and all and no hum. Just noise floor / tape hiss. A little more than my last one, but tolerable.

Update 2:  When I switched from USB 3.0 to USB 2.0 ports on my computer, suddenly I was getting crunching noises over the audio with it muted. It turned out to be interference from my cell phone that was about 2 feet away. I moved my phone to about 5 feet away and the interference was no longer audible. Not sure why I wasn't getting it plugged into the 3.0 port.

Update 3: The noise seems to be picked up by both the power cord and my XLR cables.

Also, please Schiit, consider using non-marking rubber feet:


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

did you get a new one from schiit? or another used one? just curious. ill bet your old one had the grounding issue a few have had


----------



## PointyFox

rrrr


Th3Drizzl3 said:


> did you get a new one from schiit? or another used one? just curious. ill bet your old one had the grounding issue a few have had



Got another used one. I bet the first one had that grounding issue. This one doesn't appear to have any hum/buzz. Also, this one doesn't have a built-in DAC FWIW.


----------



## GrussGott

PointyFox said:


> Update: Got a new Jotunheim. Plugged it into the same power and all and no hum. Just noise floor / tape hiss. A little more than my last one, but tolerable.
> 
> Update 2:  When I switched from USB 3.0 to USB 2.0 ports on my computer, suddenly I was getting crunching noises over the audio with it muted. It turned out to be interference from my cell phone that was about 2 feet away. I moved my phone to about 5 feet away and the interference was no longer audible. Not sure why I wasn't getting it plugged into the 3.0 port.
> 
> ...



Great news and great info Pointy!


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## Alcophone (Jul 22, 2018)

Got myself a multimeter and did some grounding tests, i.e. continuity between the longer ground blade of the power socket and various points on the case.

I do get not continuity between the holes on top of the amp and the ground blade, i.e. *the top is not grounded*. Same for the volume knob and the switches on the front. I do get continuity from one hole to another hole, so it's not an issue with getting a proper contact.
I do get continuity between the holes on the side of the amp and the ground blade, assuming I push/wiggle enough, i.e. *the bottom is grounded*. Amir said in his review unit, neither top nor bottom were grounded.
In the following pictures, a green circle indicates continuity between that point and the ground blade, while red indicates no continuity:





I have no idea which of these are supposed to be grounded, but I found that interesting.

@Jason Stoddard Let me know if you'd like to take a look at this one as well. I have never opened it. It was shipped out on November 2nd, 2017.


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## Th3Drizzl3 (Jul 22, 2018)

hmm interesting, once i removed the paint in the keyholes i did have ground to the ground pin. the way i actually ended up permanently fixing the one i had here (its back with its owner now) was to solder a 16 awg wire to the ground terminal on the inside of the socket and then affix it with a small screw and lock washer to the back of the chassis. made complete ground and removed noise.


----------



## Alcophone

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> hmm interesting, once i removed the paint in the keyholes i did have ground to the ground pin.



I imagine the same is true for mine.



Th3Drizzl3 said:


> the way i actually ended up permanently fixing the one i had here (its back with its owner now) was to solder a 16 awg wire to the ground terminal on the inside of the socket and then affix it with a small screw and lock washer to the back of the chassis. made complete ground and removed noise.



Did that improve it beyond removing the paint in the keyholes?


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

it did actually but not audiblly, only when testing with a meter. either way was fine as far as no humming noise. it was more me being ocd and wanting the best connection i could get which tested better with the wire.


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## the finisher (Jul 22, 2018)

I may try this even though my Jot is fine. Gives me a reason to open it up. Something I always do anyway.


----------



## Drywolf (Jul 28, 2018)

> Amir would like @Jason Stoddard to know this:
> Please let Jason know that in addition to the keyholes, the bottom case also has paint in the chamfer where the grounding screw goes. I first fixed the keyhole and was surprised it was still not grounded until I discovered the issue with the bottom screw as I documented in my original post..




The lid does not conduct.


----------



## rutter

I got an Auralic Taurus MKII and similar types of noises are present although I think beyond listening volume. It came with its own cable. So to a large extent the problem may be on my end although the Jot seems to be most affected. I think I must've tried the Jot with the CMA400i DAC and heard the same noise, which should address Schiit DACs tending to be noisier as well. How the CMA400i as a unit was relatively silent is a mystery.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

then why can you clearly get a reading when grounding the lid after cleaning off the paint. im not saying not to do the bottom as well but the lid clearly tests for ground with a meter when done.


----------



## Drywolf

My Silver lid does not conduct. Maybe yours does; if you own a ohm meter try it for yourself. I scraped the paint and it did not help, so I used my meter and there was no flow. I connected a wire to the frame from ground.YMMV


----------



## Alcophone

rutter said:


> I got an Auralic Taurus MKII and similar types of noises are present although I think beyond listening volume. It came with its own cable. So to a large extent the problem may be on my end although the Jot seems to be most affected. I think I must've tried the Jot with the CMA400i DAC and heard the same noise, which should address Schiit DACs tending to be noisier as well. How the CMA400i as a unit was relatively silent is a mystery.


Maybe current mode amplification (which the CMA400i uses) is less susceptible to whatever interference is plaguing your home.


----------



## GrussGott (Jul 30, 2018)

I've been testing out both of them lately - I don't have enough equipment or experience to do any kind of real review, but I can say where I'm coming from: basshead, jot/mimby, love the th-x00 and I oddly prefer the hd600s to the hd650s.

In trying the atticus my immediate reaction was "they're pretty good", I wasn't blown away, but I do think an improvement on the th-x00 (again i'm early days - it'll be a few months). I liked the bass, things are good, so I switched in the Eikons ...

The Eikons .... bizarre!

Everything, and I mean everything, just sounds WAY BETTER. Which probably sounds ridiculous, but here's what I mean:

If you play a track you're used to, the eikon takes it, separates everything in it and blows it way out, so now you can not only pick out individual instruments but you place them in space. And not just that, each has become much more vivid. For me this drastically changes tracks and every time I listen it generates question marks. And I listen to all kinds of music: EDM, pop, jazz, rock, trip-hop, deep house - the Eikon ****s with all of them. Old REM to Jessica Krall to Blue Tech to Punch Brothers.

An example is Alannah Myles' Black Velvet - it came on because I use Tidal Hi-fi and was bopping around and got lost listening to a compilation. I hate that song, and I hate her voice in it. Or I used to. It came on the Eikons and I was thinking WOW! what a great track! Who is this, I need to get some more and ... wait. WAIT. Is this Black Velvet?? What the hell is going on?? Anyway, call me a fan of that track now. That's what the Eikons do: make sucky stuff not suck.

And then there's the sub-bass. I was POSITIVE I'd like the Atticus more - and I might - but I've never gotten back to them because the Eikons are so bizarre and their sub-bass is super addictive. I think maybe I'm a sub-bass-head, because I find the Eikons to give nothing up to the TH-X00. If you like those, to my ear, the Eikons are better in every way, and then throw in some magic tricks on top.

So that's where I am - quick-tried the Atticus, switched to the Eikons, and I'm totally perplexed: they're doing some weird magical Wizard-of-Oz crap I can't comprehend yet.

It's like going into your closet to get that comfy flannel shirt, you open the door and





(accidentally posted this here instead of the zmf forum, but it's ok because it's jot related, right??)


----------



## Basem88 (Jul 31, 2018)

Can you please help me which one should I buy !
Questyle CMA400i or Schiit Jot + Balanced DAC ?

Questyle CMA400i will cost me $860
Schiit Jot + Balanced DAC will cost me $560

Is Questyle CMA400i worth extra $300 !
I'll use on my pc for HD6xx and  Focal Clear (XLR)... Gaming, Movies and Music
Thank you


----------



## kellte2

Drywolf said:


> My Silver lid does not conduct. Maybe yours does; if you own a ohm meter try it for yourself. I scraped the paint and it did not help, so I used my meter and there was no flow. I connected a wire to the frame from ground.YMMV



This is all a bit over my head, but I've been following along.  If i touch the knob or the top of the unit when powered on, I get a hum that is audible, but goes away as soon as I remove my hand's contact with either part of the unit.  Is this the grounding issue being described or is there something worse out there?


----------



## rutter

Basem88 said:


> Can you please help me which one should I buy !
> Questyle CMA400i or Schiit Jot + Balanced DAC ?
> 
> Questyle CMA400i will cost me $860
> ...



The 400i might fit the Clear as that headphone doesn't need any extra energy. I found the Jot more energetic and even clearer. Nothing struck me as good about the 400i. Didn't hear a major difference in soundstage or separation. You might be better off buying a used amp in the $800-$1000 range, however, especially with the Clear being soundstage challenged and could stand to benefit from the more expensive amps. I had a Jot + Mimby and was satisfied, spent $1000 more on a Gumby and am not satisfied. In other threads people will tell you that the Clear and 400i or the 600 are a good pairing.


----------



## MarkPharaohII

Has anyone else had issues with their Jot overloading their outlet and causing your breaker to trip? My house isn't even two years old. Was so excited to finally get this beast, shame if I end up not being able to use it because my power socket can't handle it.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

MarkPharaohII said:


> Has anyone else had issues with their Jot overloading their outlet and causing your breaker to trip? My house isn't even two years old. Was so excited to finally get this beast, shame if I end up not being able to use it because my power socket can't handle it.



Tripping a breaker? That's called "irredeemably broken." If you got it from us, contact us and we'll swap it out. If you picked it up used, contact the seller.


----------



## MarkPharaohII

Jason Stoddard said:


> Tripping a breaker? That's called "irredeemably broken." If you got it from us, contact us and we'll swap it out. If you picked it up used, contact the seller.



Apologies, I misspoke. Not tripping the actual breaker, but it kills the electricity in my room until I hit the 'reset' button on the outlet that the Jot in plugged in to. Sometimes more than once a night, some times I'll go through several hours/days without an issue. Do you believe it's still an issue with the unit? I was about to re-sell this thinking it was a power issue but I clearly won't if it's the unit itself.


----------



## rkw (Aug 2, 2018)

MarkPharaohII said:


> Not tripping the actual breaker, but it kills the electricity in my room until I hit the 'reset' button on the outlet


You mean a GFCI outlet? It could be an issue with your home wiring, e.g. discussed here: https://www.homelectrical.com/why-my-gfci-outlet-tripping.6.html. If it doesn't happen when using any other equipment with a 3 prong grounded plug, it could be the Jot. Consult with Schiit about it.


----------



## MarkPharaohII

rkw said:


> You mean a GFCI outlet? It could be an issue with your home wiring, e.g. discussed here: https://www.homelectrical.com/why-my-gfci-outlet-tripping.6.html. If it doesn't happen when using any other equipment with a 3 prong grounded plug, it could be the Jot. Consult with Schiit about it.



Great, thank you for the info, I have some testing to do on my side.


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## the finisher (Aug 2, 2018)

The new arc fault breakers are _*way*_ more sensitive than a gfci breaker or outlet.
They trip constantly when we work on new homes, I hate them.

A Jot pulls like 15 watts idle and not much more in use, overloading a 15 amp breaker is lol.


----------



## Share2Care

Evening Peeps!

Hope all is well with you for a Monday!

Have had my Jot for nearly 12 months now. At the time I brought, I paid to have the balanced 4490 dacs installed for around £100 at the time. So from the start of my Jot experience I have had a dual balanced DAC always present.

My main question is to those that have experienced all forms of Schiit DACs inclusinf of course Jot life before upgrading cards or a brand new Schiit DAC and is the Multibit  much of a difference in terms of sound and anything and everything in between. All thoughts and feelings would be really appreciated. 

The last part is that as Schiit keep their word unlike a few out there, my card is upgradable. Is it worth the £150 to change over or call it upgrading. Happy to pay the money if the value of Multibit is worth it!

Really appreciate any time or effort in replying to my dilemma!

Kind Regards


----------



## the finisher (Aug 7, 2018)

Multibit is worth it IMO, a *huge* improvement. But I compared the 4490 to Yggy, so not quite the same. 
More comparable to Modi Multibit, sure others will chime in.

You might want to ask in the Lyr 3 thread.


----------



## GrussGott

Share2Care said:


> Is it worth the £150 to change over or call it upgrading. Happy to pay the money if the value of Multibit is worth it!



the simplest answer is, do you believe your DAC is the weakest part of the chain?

If yes, are you looking to do a small upgrade before larger?  Do you save up for, say, a Gumby, or chip away with smaller upgrades?  or should you save for better headphones?

Probably not the answer you want, but that's how I'd look at it because, yes, the multibit will probably be an upgrade you can hear, but it likely won't be a leap, so in taking that small step did you put more time in front of the leap?


----------



## rutter

I found the Gumby with Jot to be no leap. In fact, I might have even preferred the Mimby with Jot. I have heard that the external Mimby should sound better than an internal module so that would be my rec.


----------



## PointyFox (Aug 8, 2018)

Blind A/B tested a Modi vs a Bimby with 3 people. The Bimby puts out more volume and was the winner until I volume matched them. Then no one could tell them apart. Headphones were HD800S, amp was BottleHead Mainline.


----------



## rutter

I would be very curious what they would think about a Gumby.


----------



## Alcophone

PointyFox said:


> Blind A/B tested a Modi vs a Bimby with 3 people. The Bimby puts out more volume and was the winner until I volume matched them. Then no one could tell them apart. Headphones were HD800S, amp was BottleHead Mainline.


Interesting! Though a bit surprising, maximum output for both is specified as 2.0V RMS.


----------



## jimmers (Aug 8, 2018)

Alcophone said:


> Interesting! Though a bit surprising, maximum output for both is specified as 2.0V RMS.


Modi multibit is 2.0V rms but DS Modi 2 is only 1.5V according to Schiit.

Personally I find A/B testing to be pointless for me as "testing" puts me in the wrong state to enjoy music and I only notice the grossest of differences.
A/B-ing a $30 class D amp vs  a $1,000 class A/B amp using Bimby and LS50 speakers I wouldn't necessarily know which I was listening to but I enjoy the $1,000 amp more when I turn off the analytical and just listen to the music.
When I got my Bimby I didn't get any sense of improvement initially (over DS DACs, BB, Sabre, Wolfson etc.) but I noticed I was enjoying tracks in my play list I was previously tending to skip over as I got nothing from them.
YMMV


----------



## DavidA

Alcophone said:


> Interesting! Though a bit surprising, maximum output for both is specified as 2.0V RMS.


I compared my Bimby to my Bifrost Uber and while they are both rated at 2.0v the Uber is about 0.5 dB louder so I'd assume that there might be/ are slight differences even if the ratings are the same.


----------



## Alcophone

jimmers said:


> Modi multibit is 2.0V rms but DS Modi 2 is only 1.5V according to Schiit.


Could have sworn he said Mimby. My bad!



jimmers said:


> Personally I find A/B testing to be pointless for me as "testing" puts me in the wrong state to enjoy music and I only notice the grossest of differences.
> A/B-ing a $30 class D amp vs  a $1,000 class A/B amp using Bimby and LS50 speakers I wouldn't necessarily know which I was listening to but I enjoy the $1,000 amp more when I turn off the analytical and just listen to the music.
> When I got my Bimby I didn't get any sense of improvement initially (over DS DACs, BB, Sabre, Wolfson etc.) but I noticed I was enjoying tracks in my play list I was previously tending to skip over as I got nothing from them.
> YMMV



Yeah, it's tricky. It's too easy to focus on the obvious like which one is brighter, but some things like transient response, how natural the instruments sound, sound stage take a while to sink in. Especially when you have never heard that difference before, it takes some casual listening until you randomly notice that something is different.


----------



## Alcophone (Aug 10, 2018)

Alcophone said:


> Got myself a multimeter and did some grounding tests, i.e. continuity between the longer ground blade of the power socket and various points on the case.
> 
> I do get not continuity between the holes on top of the amp and the ground blade, i.e. *the top is not grounded*. Same for the volume knob and the switches on the front. I do get continuity from one hole to another hole, so it's not an issue with getting a proper contact.
> I do get continuity between the holes on the side of the amp and the ground blade, assuming I push/wiggle enough, i.e. *the bottom is grounded*. Amir said in his review unit, neither top nor bottom were grounded.
> ...



Schiit took a look, and confirmed that the top had intermittent grounding. *Schiit fixed it*, though I don't know how.
Yesterday, I received my Jotunheim and can confirm that *the top is now grounded*! *This also eliminates the fascinating noises that I got when touching the volume knob *or the top while only connecting power and a pair of headphones, cranking up the volume all the way, gain on high, and selecting the single ended inputs. Though I may actually have selected the DAC input, to be honest - I remember flipping the switch up, which is actually the DAC input. Regardless, with this test I now only get a minimal faint hiss on all three inputs, whether I touch the case or not. It's a bit louder on balanced, but well within what I would expect for a powerful amplifier on full volume.

I also repeated my grounding tests to see whether anything else has changed. Last time I forgot to check the balanced input grounds, which I have now added. I previously also only touched the volume knob with a probe on the outside, if I remember correctly, while this time I exploited the little hole it has. Anywhere within the hole, I'm getting continuity to the power jack's ground blade. The top has continuity when measuring on the edge of the holes, and the side does as well, on the edge of the holes.

Compared to last time, there were some changes, which I indicated with a dotted line. Two of the screws in the back no longer have continuity, while one on the bottom no longer has continuity, and two more on the bottom have intermittent continuity when previously one of them had solid continuity. By intermittent I mean that sometimes they did have continuity, sometimes they didn't, apparently affected by moving the case around / placing it on the table, which probably shifts something a tiny little bit. I then noticed that one of the screws did show a resistance of around 500 ohms, without the continuity indicator on my multimeter triggering - I suppose it has a threshold. Last time, I only paid attention to the beep and flash of the screen. After shifting the case around some more, continuity was gone completely, and I haven't been able to restore it.

*Green:* reliable continuity
*Yellow:* intermittent continuity
*Red:* no continuity
*Dotted:* different from before the repair






Now, again, I don't know that any of the non-grounded / intermittently grounded screws indicate any issues. The only audible issue I had before the repair was with quirky use, and that is now gone, so I'm happy with it.
I also checked whether this fixed a mild hum I hear when standing close to my speakers while using the Jotunheim as a preamp, but that remains unchanged, and can have many other causes due to my current non-ideal cable layout.

Thank you for taking care of this, @Jason Stoddard!

*Edit:* If you ever send yours in, make sure to use the original packaging. If you don't have that anymore, you can request it from Schiit. I macgyvered my packaging, and the power switch broke during shipping. Thanks to Schiit for fixing that, free of charge, just like that. Awesome!

*Edit 2:* the power switch broke due to my bad packaging, not the volume knob, doh


----------



## 565hunter

MarkPharaohII said:


> Great, thank you for the info, I have some testing to do on my side.


Hey Mark, did you find a resolution to your problem?


----------



## MarkPharaohII

565hunter said:


> Hey Mark, did you find a resolution to your problem?



Yea, was my outlet. Brand new house, cheapest AF materials :/


----------



## tamleo (Aug 11, 2018)

Hello guys,
I'm new here. Can anyone please tell me how naturally the Jot sound? I have now an Asgard 2 and i like it very much because of its realistic sound. The two amps from Schiit that i found to be artificial were the Mjolnir 1 (no sparking and harsh treble) and the Vali 2 (plastic and hazy mids/treble), that i sold.
Thank you so much,


----------



## Tuneslover

tamleo said:


> Hello guys,
> I'm new here. Can anyone please tell me how naturally the Jot sound? I have now an Asgard 2 and i like it very much because of its realistic sound. The two amps from Schiit that i found to be artificial were the Mjolnir 1 (not sparking but harsh treble) and the Vali 2 (plastic and hazy mids/treble), that i sold.
> Thank you so much,



If you like a clear and detailed sound then the Jot might be for you.  It is considered to be a bright amp when compared to other amps but that doesn't mean that it is lean.  If you're looking for a warm sound then this wouldn't be an amp that you would like.


----------



## DavidA

tamleo said:


> Hello guys,
> I'm new here. Can anyone please tell me how naturally the Jot sound? I have now an Asgard 2 and i like it very much because of its realistic sound. The two amps from Schiit that i found to be artificial were the Mjolnir 1 (no sparking and harsh treble) and the Vali 2 (plastic and hazy mids/treble), that i sold.
> Thank you so much,





Tuneslover said:


> If you like a clear and detailed sound then the Jot might be for you.  It is considered to be a bright amp when compared to other amps but that doesn't mean that it is lean.  If you're looking for a warm sound then this wouldn't be an amp that you would like.



Agree with @Tuneslover about the Jot being a touch on the bright side compared to an Asgard2 but you should also consider that the Jot does sound a bit better from the balanced output versus the SE output so unless you already have balanced cables you should take this into consideration.  The few times I had my friends Jot I like the Asgard2 better if only using SE output.  The sound of the Mjolnir and Vali 2 are tube dependent so hard to say if they are bright or not, also the Lyr2/3 would be tube dependent.


----------



## tamleo (Aug 13, 2018)

Thank @Tuneslover and @DavidA but i didn't mean neutral. I meant how the amp portrays sound. Drum, percussion and specially bell  sounded fake (to my ears) on the vali 2 and the Mjolnir1(ss amp). It is a little hard to describe. Just like jjj sss crisp voice on many balanced amateur iems, it is not life-like.


----------



## DavidA

tamleo said:


> Thank @Tuneslover and @DavidA but i didn't mean neutral. I meant how the amp portrays sound. Drum, percussion and specially bell  sounded fake (to my ears) on the vali 2 and the Mjolnir1(ss amp). It is a little hard to describe. Just like jjj sss crisp voice on many balanced amateur iems, it is not life-like.


How "natural" an amp sounds is also dependent on the headphone that is paired with it along with ones experiences.  For me a HD650 with a BH Crack is about as close to what I'd consider a live sound and what I can remember when I was playing in a band back in high school and college while my friends 2 daughters who are professional musicians (violin and piano) think that the HD650 + OTL amp (BH Crack or Elise) is one of the best at rendering then in a un-amplified setting.


----------



## Voxata

I've come to accept that the more 'natural' sounding a piece of gear is can to attributed to color. Not so much FR shifts but harmonics, etc. For instance the Gumby A2 for me added a more 'natural' sound however in turn was more muted in the sub bass and made alterations to the soundstage vs other DACs I've tried. It also seemed a bit upper-mid forward. When switching back to the DS this natural attribute went away and things were more flat. When adding an Auralic Taurus MKII that natural sound came back - because the amp is colored a bit to make things sound more natural which fits with a DS dac as opposed to multibit which already has that thing going on. Purely my opinions here.  
 In regards to the Jot.. it does some stage smearing but overall is a very enjoyable amp. Would I go to it for a 'live natural sound'? Probably not.. could I get lost in it +mimby for hours upon hours of casual listening any day of the week with a 650? Yes please.. is it a wickedly solid choice for a $400 amp? Definitely. It is all about tastes though and trying amps until you find one that suits your preferences and your chain.


----------



## GrussGott

Voxata said:


> could I get lost in it +mimby for hours upon hours of casual listening any day of the week with a 650? Yes please.. is it a wickedly solid choice for a $400 amp? Definitely.



Yeah, I've got the eitr>mimby>jot chain and, after adding some high quality cables, via ZMF dynamics the upgrade bug is definitely tamped down ... I've found if I make too many changes too fast I never get enough experience to understand what I'm really trying to solve for.

I haven't listened to enough amps for long enough to say whether the Jot is "bright" - what I can say is, from my experience, yes, there are a few tracks that are sharp no matter the headphone (hd600, ZMFs, Th-x00) and with the x00 there are definitely some sharp spikes.  But right now, via the Atticus with suede pads, about 99% of things sound stellar and I haven't gone back to the Eikon for awhile.

Next year I'll probably get an OTL or maybe a WA8, but until then I'm just finding track matches and enjoying the jot.


----------



## Tuneslover

I find the somewhat warm HD650 goes well with the detailed and somewhat bright Jot.  I put the Dekoni Elite Velours on them which helps tone down the brightness while still keeping the detail.  Added oomph from the balanced is nice too.


----------



## Voxata

GrussGott said:


> Yeah, I've got the eitr>mimby>jot chain and, after adding some high quality cables, via ZMF dynamics the upgrade bug is definitely tamped down ... I've found if I make too many changes too fast I never get enough experience to understand what I'm really trying to solve for.
> 
> I haven't listened to enough amps for long enough to say whether the Jot is "bright" - what I can say is, from my experience, yes, there are a few tracks that are sharp no matter the headphone (hd600, ZMFs, Th-x00) and with the x00 there are definitely some sharp spikes.  But right now, via the Atticus with suede pads, about 99% of things sound stellar and I haven't gone back to the Eikon for awhile.
> 
> Next year I'll probably get an OTL or maybe a WA8, but until then I'm just finding track matches and enjoying the jot.



Great input. I myself have always wanted to have a short trial with the Atticus to decide if I want to buy or not.. I'm done doing blind buys on expensive gear.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3 (Aug 15, 2018)

i feel the jot is a bit bright, i own and auditioned a myriad of amps and while i like my jot and it fits in its own place it does place itself in the slightly brighter area imo. i would not sell my jot either. however the newer ones being shipped myself and many others feel they tamed it down a bit i have sold my older one and kept the one from 2018 due to it just sounding better schiit says there were no changes but something def caused it to sound a bit different. i agree on the soundstage.


----------



## tcellguy

Hi, I don't have a lot of experience with amps or electrical engineering. 

My Jotunheim doesn't have a hum when using the internal DAC. However if I change to the SE RCA-in setting and touch the ends of the RCA cables I get a very audible hum. This is not present when the RCAs are connected to an external DAC (iDSD micro). I think the amp sounds great and I don't hear any distortion under normal use cases. 

Does this RCA hum mean mine is not grounded and is a shock risk?


----------



## jimmers

tcellguy said:


> Hi, I don't have a lot of experience with amps or electrical engineering.
> 
> My Jotunheim doesn't have a hum when using the internal DAC. However if I change to the SE RCA-in setting and touch the ends of the RCA cables I get a very audible hum. This is not present when the RCAs are connected to an external DAC (iDSD micro). I think the amp sounds great and I don't hear any distortion under normal use cases.
> 
> Does this RCA hum mean mine is not grounded and is a shock risk?


If you plug an RCA cable into the input of any amp and touch the centre pin at the free end you will get a hum, if you touch the centre pin and the outer contact the hum will lessen maybe almost to the point of disappearing, this is normal.


----------



## tcellguy

I figured it was probably something like that. Thanks for the information!


----------



## rutter (Aug 26, 2018)

Anyone directly compared the Jot with a multibit module versus the Jot with Mimby? I'm wondering whether the Mimby having an RCA connection makes any difference between the two when using headphones balanced.


----------



## rutter (Sep 6, 2018)

Screw it, nevermind. I'm at the end of my wits. If anyone wants to buy a brand new Jot with a multibit module for $500 including shipping pm me.


----------



## johny5

I just bought an sennheiser Hd800s and need to amp it, I was considering this amp. Can anyone with this combo of gear  comment on the quality of the pairing?

Jotunheim Multi + HD800S


----------



## sup27606 (Sep 6, 2018)

johny5 said:


> I just bought an sennheiser Hd800s and need to amp it, I was considering this amp. Can anyone with this combo of gear  comment on the quality of the pairing?
> 
> Jotunheim Multi + HD800S



I have tested the Sennheiser HD800 (not S) with SDR mod (which takes it close to the S version although not entirely) with the Jot+Mimby combo balanced, and didn’t find the pairing anything special. It had sibilant voices and hot treble in some of the songs. After applying eq, it became better, but when comparing with a tube amp, La Figaro 339, it clearly shows the lack of soundstage and fine detail on the Jot. Even the La Figaro is nowhere near the scaling limit of what the HD800 is capable of. I find, the portable amp Cayin C5 is a better match for the HD800 than Jot in terms of soundstage and frequency response.

If you are looking for a solid state amp for HD800, Violectric V200/V800 combo (used) seems to be a better match at a slightly higher price than a new Jot multi. For portable, the Geek Out line is highly recommended in forums.


----------



## shredder

has anyone tried a Aune x7s amp that can offer an impression comparison to the Jot?  - Basic impression, just which was more fun to listen to?


----------



## protools

shredder said:


> has anyone tried a Aune x7s amp that can offer an impression comparison to the Jot?  - Basic impression, just which was more fun to listen to?


Hi, 
I have both, the Jot sounds more full and rounded, with better bass, on the other hand  the Aune sounds a little anemic in the bass area, the Aune has better soundstage and a súper black background.

Hope this helps you to decide.
Daniel.


----------



## shredder

Thank you!  I appreciate that comparison very much!


----------



## the finisher

@johny5 

Wish I had HD800S to listen and let you know.

I suspect you might be more happy with Lyr 3 multibit with those cans.
Hopefully others chime in.

And welcome


----------



## FLTWS

I prefer my HD800 with tubes and even Rag over Jot. But, add a little Loki and I find I can massage the Jot800 to deliver a lot of different sound profiles.
If one can swing it one day, go with Jot (with or without Loki) and LYR-3, and have a blast and learn for yourself what suits your taste best and come to your own conclusions re: tube vs SS.
I've been doing that for decades with both types, each comes with it's own package of strengths and weaknesses. Neither is perfect. But, one type may suit your preferences in conjunction
with your favored genre(s) of music.
But, that's just me.


----------



## SirRealist

FLTWS said:


> I prefer my HD800 with tubes and even Rag over Jot. But, add a little Loki and I find I can massage the Jot800 to deliver a lot of different sound profiles.
> If one can swing it one day, go with Jot (with or without Loki) and LYR-3, and have a blast and learn for yourself what suits your taste best and come to your own conclusions re: tube vs SS.
> I've been doing that for decades with both types, each comes with it's own package of strengths and weaknesses. Neither is perfect. But, one type may suit your preferences in conjunction
> with your favored genre(s) of music.
> But, that's just me.



Good advice. Have you personally tried the Crack+SB with the HD800? Seems like in theory that would be a great match, but I don't know either product.


----------



## FLTWS (Sep 13, 2018)

SirRealist said:


> Good advice. Have you personally tried the Crack+SB with the HD800? Seems like in theory that would be a great match, but I don't know either product.



No experience with the Crack but the DIY aspect always brings back fond memories of my Dynaco Kit days. I think I did DL a copy of the Crack assembly manual some time ago, enjoyed just reading it through.


----------



## DavidA

SirRealist said:


> Good advice. Have you personally tried the Crack+SB with the HD800? Seems like in theory that would be a great match, but I don't know either product.


BH Crack but no SB for me, just need to find the right set of tubes and with the HD800 its a great setup.


----------



## rutter

Unfortunately the internal DAC modules appear to be trash. Was not satisfied with the multibit module and ordered a Mimby. I think it's much better although I'm not going to bother unplugging and replugging cables again. All the product page has to say is that the internal module is $50 less (and that pairing a DAC with an amp in one box has been solved :/) but Mike Moffat (spelling?) claimed in a Facebook interview that it's not as good. I strongly recommend that if anyone is to buy the Jotunheim you do so with the Modi Multibit, even if you're using a balanced headphone cable as I am. I thought that perhaps the internal module might work better with the balanced output only to confirm that you do not want to bother with these modules.


----------



## MWSVette (Sep 21, 2018)

Contrary to what some think, the Multibit add on card for the Jot is very much worth the $200.00 price.  If you need an all in one desk setup it is great rig for the money.

The Mimby is a step up and the Bimby even more so.

Of course IMHO, YMMV, yada yada yada...


----------



## Alcophone

MWSVette said:


> Contrary to what some think, the Multibit add on card for the Jot is very much worth the $100.00 price.  If you need an all in one desk setup it is great rig for the money.
> 
> The Mimby is a step up and the Bimby even more so.
> 
> Of course IMHO, YMMV, yada yada yada...


*$200


----------



## MWSVette

My bad.  You are right.  Corrected in post...


----------



## rutter

Yep, so don't even think about it, get a Mimby. I've seen too many comments that the Bimby is poor value in comparison to the Mimby. It's not even balanced. I also have disappointing experience with the Gumby so I decided to save myself money and go with what I already knew was rather satisfactory. Annoyed with myself for wasting $200 on the DAC module but these things really keep their resale value apparently. Mimby and resale value have been the best things about Schiit in my experience. Interestingly, the guy who makes Norne cables recommended a DAC to me in the same price range of the Gumby that I was completely unaware of. Probably wish I knew that earlier. I wonder why Schiit is so well known.


----------



## tcellguy (Sep 21, 2018)

The Mimby leaves open the option to use the Eitr, which for me was almost as big of an improvement as the Mimby vs. internal balanced DS DAC module.

Eitr + Mimby + Jotunheim is so good I’m going to stick with this setup for a while.


----------



## rutter

The Gumby had gen 5 USB and I didn't notice a difference in clarity. At $180 extra you might as well get a Bimby and get whatever marginal improvements it comes with.


----------



## tcellguy

Yeah, it's a fair point. The Bimby likely has better power isolation, etc.


----------



## MWSVette

tcellguy said:


> Yeah, it's a fair point. The Bimby likely has better power isolation, etc.



It does.  And it is fully upgradeable to whatever great thing Mike can come up with next...


----------



## UntilThen

franzdom said:


> I can testify Jotunheim plays quite nicely with Yggdrasil (multibit) balanced and discreet.



Very true. Listening to the combo right now with a LCD2.


----------



## the finisher

I also use a Jot fed by Yggy a2 for my HPs and desk speaker system. Feeds both xlr monitors and L&R subs SE.
The Jot punches way beyond its price, I'd have to spend $1800 to 3k for a upgrade.

The bass this combo is capable of is down right addicting.


----------



## rutter

No, you really don't have to spend $1800 to $3000 for an upgrade. Let's not be ridiculous. Alcophone (might've misspelled), for instance, is significantly more satisfied with a Gustard H20 that he got for $800.


----------



## the finisher

I'm not upgrading to a Gustard, first of all I'm happy with my Jot, and Yggy has much to do with that.
Second, if I did it would be to a iFi iCan pro, or a GSX mk2 amp.


----------



## rutter

I don't care what you are or aren't upgrading to. What you claimed about how much it would cost to appreciably upgrade from a Jot isn't true.


----------



## the finisher (Oct 10, 2018)

In your opinion, and if you don't care then why do you?

Oh and I'm buying a multibit dac card for my Jot


----------



## Alcophone (Oct 10, 2018)

rutter said:


> No, you really don't have to spend $1800 to $3000 for an upgrade. Let's not be ridiculous. Alcophone (might've misspelled), for instance, is significantly more satisfied with a Gustard H20 that he got for $800.



True, at least with 2x Sparkos SS3602s (~$80 each). And recently I was blown away by the $300 Burson Fun with 2x Sparkos SS3601s (~$40 each). While there's plenty I don't like about the Fun (and with the stock opamps, the Jotunheim beats it handsomely), that sound was to die for. I might get that one back from the other reviewer, then I can throw it at the Yggy for possibly even more sonic bliss than with the DX7s.



the finisher said:


> Oh and I'm buying a multibit dac card for my Jot



I'd strongly recommend getting the Mimby instead - for versatility like being able to use it with other amps, having more inputs, compatibility with Loki, etc. Though personally I'd wait for a version with Schiit's own USB implementation, which seems to be close to ready based on Mike's posts, removing one of the two advantages the Bimby has over the Mimby (the other one being the better power supply). Hm, I could imagine even the DAC modules getting that USB module if it's small enough... that would be nice!

Edit: personal stuff removed


----------



## the finisher (Oct 10, 2018)

Alcophone said:


> Ouch, that hurts.



Sorry, I removed it. 

Edit

Thanks for clearing up the ASR thing, I may have a unnatural dislike for that place, and Amir in particular.


----------



## ToTo Man

I'm curious how much Mike's new USB implementation will improve on Gen5.  Admittedly I've not tried the AES or BNC inputs on my Yggy2, but Gen5 sounds damn fine to my ears.


----------



## the finisher (Oct 10, 2018)

ToTo Man said:


> I'm curious how much Mike's new USB implementation will improve on Gen5.  Admittedly I've not tried the AES or BNC inputs on my Yggy2, but Gen5 sounds damn fine to my ears.




I've not tried the AES3 input either, but do use the BNC, Coaxial, Toslink and USB for different connection scenarios.
They are all pretty close IMO, I do like the BNC and Coaxial the best, but not a huge difference to me.


----------



## Alcophone

the finisher said:


> Sorry, I removed it.


Removed that part, too. All good!


----------



## rutter

the finisher said:


> Oh and I'm buying a multibit dac card for my Jot



You're your own man. Wish I didn't waste $200 but some of us live and learn.


----------



## the finisher

Well perhaps Modi multibit would make more sense.


----------



## TeeQ (Oct 10, 2018)

Hey All,

Long time listener, first time caller...


So I have had a Jot w/Multibit card for maybe 2~3 months, never really used that much. End up with a Gumby/MJ2 stack maybe 6 days after getting jot w/Multibit. Just ran to some luck so picked up the Gumby/MJ2, not that anything was wrong with the jot.

Now after having it sitting around for a few months, I thought hey you’re going out of the country for a month to go work in a small room. This would make that room better. Bought a DC to AC battery pack and 230v to 120v converter.

Jot -> DC to AC battery pack -> 230v to 120v -> wall

Figure the 230v to 120v is not going to give the best power. Ps I was right.

Now the headphone, Ether C flow 1.1 (had done the upgrade, but was listening to other headphones while still at home. I was going to have more than enough time to get to know the 1.1 version)

Ok time to head out -

------

Landed and time to listen.

Ahhhhh What is wrong with everything. Ready to start hatefully posting all over the place. Wait, stop think test and read.

Ether C flow 1.1 early reviews all seem to say, basically same headphone but better. I think that is mostly right... still need some more time to live with them to tell. (Now that the Jot is warmed up, the Ether C flows 1.1 sound miles better)

Jot, this seem more all over the place for reviews. It’s great, its harsh ... etc take your pick. Same can be said with the multi bit card in the Jot.

------

Learnings of traveling with Jot thus far

- Jot w/Multibit is a LONG warm up time, I want to say maybe a day or two under normal operation. Hotel to office to hotel has not been ideal to get up to temp. Much longer warm up than normal Mimby from what I remember when I had one.

- DC to AC converter, must need for good audio on the go. Can plug Jot direct into 230v - 120v converter to keep heated overnight.

- Avoid trying to bring a Multibit DAC on the road if you can (Mimby may be a little better if must need for this). Not that will stop me or any of you ...

- The Jot w/Multibit is actually pretty bad a$$ once it gets warmed up. First couple day I wanted to chuck it out a window.

------

What I am still trying to figure out.

- To keep the DAC properly heated when moving from location to location, do you need to power both the main amp section and the USB, Just the main amp or just the USB?

- Does toweling the Jot to bring it up to a higher temp quick at all help with warm up time?

It seems from what I have read the reason for the SUPER bass lite sound when cool is the DAC needing to hit thermal equilibrium before it works correctly for audio decoding. But I also seem to remember something about the Schiit Multibit DAC chips having a low signal output, so it also takes time for them to charge the output caps before they sound right. The part about the caps charging is more what i have read from the Gumby reviews. With that said, if the caps, then im guess toweling is going to do nothing. But hey at least I didn't forget my towel!


Happy listing all.


----------



## the finisher

TeeQ said:


> - Jot w/Multibit is a LONG warm up time, I want to say maybe a day or two under normal operation. Hotel to office to hotel has not been ideal to get up to temp. Much longer warm up than normal Mimby from what I remember when I had one.



This is not surprising at all, I never shut my Schiit off for a reason.

And welcome


----------



## Brooklyn70

I’m looking to upgrade my jotunheim power cord any suggestions??


----------



## the finisher (Oct 11, 2018)

I use one of these, I know it's kinda spendy but great shielding and looks are important to me.
Pretty sure 12 awg is slightly overkill for a 15/20 watt device, but I like it.

https://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/analysis-plus-pro-power-oval-power-cable


----------



## Brooklyn70

the finisher said:


> I use one of these, I know it's kinda spendy but great shielding and looks are important to me.
> Pretty sure 12 awg is slightly overkill for a 15/20 watt device, but I like it.
> 
> https://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/analysis-plus-pro-power-oval-power-cable


I’ll give it a look thank you


----------



## the finisher

Brooklyn70 said:


> I’ll give it a look thank you



I have 1 of these as well, be fine and a bit cheaper. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00V75KB0...7f-11e8-a4cb-8f9c782aa20c&smid=A2763VQ7SN6URD


----------



## TeeQ

Before looking into power cables i would like into the power coming out of your mains if sound quality is the purpose for the upgrade. May want to look into power conditioning. DC blocker, rfi/emi filter etc ... Do some googling on "Pimping The Schiit Out of The Mjolnir 2" should be a start.

If you just looking for a nice looking accessory, then above mentioned power cable will do nice.


----------



## FLTWS

the finisher said:


> I have 1 of these as well, be fine and a bit cheaper. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00V75KB0...7f-11e8-a4cb-8f9c782aa20c&smid=A2763VQ7SN6URD



I use these Pangeas on all my stuff, they work fine, seem to be nicely put together with all the bells, whistles and buzzwords in the specs, reasonably flexible, come in several different lengths (no need to ball up excess in wads or trim and re-terminate yourself), and are very cost effective as these things go. I use the lowest cost versions except the one I use with my PS Audio Dectet which is 2 meters long. I also replaced the wall socket with one from Pangea for $19.95. Thought it was probably not necessary but when I pulled the existing one turned out to be only about 75% of normal, low quality builders grade, LOL. There is a substantial difference in weight alone. Difference in sound, time will tell. Truth is, when the local Naval Air Station closed 10 years ago or so, and I was no longer directly under the NW to SE landing pattern (depending on wind), all my, sometimes, noise issues went with it.


----------



## GrussGott

FLTWS said:


> I use these Pangeas on all my stuff, they work fine, seem to be nicely put together with all the bells, whistles and buzzwords in the specs, reasonably flexible, come in several different lengths (no need to ball up excess in wads or trim and re-terminate yourself), and are very cost effective as these things go. I use the lowest cost versions except the one I use with my PS Audio Dectet which is 2 meters long. I also replaced the wall socket with one from Pangea for $19.95. Thought it was probably not necessary but when I pulled the existing one turned out to be only about 75% of normal, low quality builders grade, LOL. There is a substantial difference in weight alone. Difference in sound, time will tell. Truth is, when the local Naval Air Station closed 10 years ago or so, and I was no longer directly under the NW to SE landing pattern (depending on wind), all my, sometimes, noise issues went with it.



@Brooklyn70 I have a pangea AC-14 and it works great - basically i was getting EMI into the RCAs as the unshielded power cable is like 3 inches away from your inputs.  Once I replaced the power cord with the shielded pangea, the noise went about 95% away, and then I replaced my RCA interconnects with AQ GG and that got rid of the rest.  I tried more expensive versions of all of those, but had no effect I could hear.  Prior, I could move my power cord and hear the interference, now silence.

I live on a higher floor of condo tower in a major downtown so EMI is off the charts which likely accounts for me needing shielded everything


----------



## GrussGott

TeeQ said:


> - Does toweling the Jot to bring it up to a higher temp quick at all help with warm up time?
> 
> It seems from what I have read the reason for the SUPER bass lite sound when cool is the DAC needing to hit thermal equilibrium before it works correctly for audio decoding.



I ain't no electronicist, but "thermal equilibrium" isn't so much heat as a condition of the electronic components at a given constant temperature (e.g., room temperature).  There's also "johnson noise" in the resistor ladders which is the noise due thermal fluctuations within them.  (Johnson was a colleague of good ole Nyquist).

Anyway, don't risk burning down your building is my point.


----------



## MWSVette

The Pangea cables are great I use a bunch of them...


----------



## the finisher (Oct 21, 2018)

GrussGott said:


> I ain't no electronicist, but "thermal equilibrium" isn't so much heat as a condition of the electronic components at a given constant temperature (e.g., room temperature).  There's also "johnson noise" in the resistor ladders which is the noise due thermal fluctuations within them.  (Johnson was a colleague of good ole Nyquist).
> 
> Anyway, don't risk burning down your building is my point.




Ya, just leave it on it draws 15 watts.



MWSVette said:


> The Pangea cables are great I use a bunch of them...


----------



## Brooklyn70

GrussGott said:


> @Brooklyn70 I have a pangea AC-14 and it works great - basically i was getting EMI into the RCAs as the unshielded power cable is like 3 inches away from your inputs.  Once I replaced the power cord with the shielded pangea, the noise went about 95% away, and then I replaced my RCA interconnects with AQ GG and that got rid of the rest.  I tried more expensive versions of all of those, but had no effect I could hear.  Prior, I could move my power cord and hear the interference, now silence.
> 
> I live on a higher floor of condo tower in a major downtown so EMI is off the charts which likely accounts for me needing shielded everything


I’m a big fan of the FosPower RCA cables I also use the whirlwind XLR cables


----------



## thevoiceover

Hello team! Good to meet you all, I will just start by pretty quick saying I’m a little slow atm as I have been going through some health fights and struggles the past couple of years and am still fighting with faith I can pull through!

That being said I will move on and appreciate all of your different personalities and perceptions.  

I have read through a bunch of this thread and wanted to say I am not seeing issues like a few people have spoken of the past few pages with interference. I did however buy my Jot do be able to listen to various input devices ( phone, tablet, monitor out, etc.) so it would be an acceptable range for my HD 6XX.  I just wanted some privacy while I’m in treatment and to block out noise!  During most of the reviews I read, the Jot can get to a range almost ear bleeding loud.  I can say with mine, it is nowhere near! When I plug my headphones into my Denon, I can’t even put it to 1/2 without it being too loud. On my Jot with the dial turned full, it sounds about 1/4 - 1/8 of my Denons level, not loud at all!

Is this just a newb issue, am I doing anything wrong here?  If I plug any source into this via the rca input, shouldn’t it amp it up pretty loud?

Thanks again for you all being here and I look forward to enjoying these products for the time I have!


Respectfully,

TVO


----------



## TeeQ (Oct 18, 2018)

Hmmmmm.

With the HD6XX the jot should blow your brains out, even on low gain.

Little hard to say whats going on without knowing a little more about your device chain. Example PC/Phone->USB->DAC->RCA->Jot->1/4"->HD 6XX.

What is going to be your most common devices you are hooking up to the Jot and how are you connecting them to the Jot?

But my first guess would be what ever source is in coming is just not at line out level. So if have your phone (Phone->3.5mm to RCA-> Jot->1/4"->HD6XX), i would turn your phone up to full volume when plugging it into the the Jot.

Do you have a built in DAC in your Jot? or did you get a phono input for the Jot? Or did you not get a jot with no module? With or without any of these you should still be able to use hte RCAs with no problem.


----------



## thevoiceover

I have no DAC, just trying now to get 1/4 to RCA via laptop headphone, iPad, shield controller, mp3 player and they all sound low to me.  I have tried both connections for headphone out and they each sound low. Each device has been turned to it's maximum. Even at high gain, still sounds low although it's a little louder.


----------



## rkw (Oct 18, 2018)

thevoiceover said:


> I have no DAC, just trying now to get 1/4 to RCA via laptop headphone, iPad, shield controller, mp3 player and they all sound low to me.  I have tried both connections for headphone out and they each sound low. Each device has been turned to it's maximum. Even at high gain, still sounds low although it's a little louder.


Just to be clear, let's start with one case — say your laptop. If you listen to the HD6XX directly from the laptop's headphone jack, it wouldn't be ideal but you should hear a decent sound level (not necessarily loud). This would indicate that the output is more than high enough for the Jot. Now if you connect the laptop's headphone jack to the Jot RCA input, you should definitely get a strong output from the Jot. If you don't, either the RCA cable is defective or the Jot is defective.

BTW, when you say you tried both connections for headphone out, do you mean 1/4"  and balanced XLR?


----------



## TeeQ

Big guns are here I will now move aside


----------



## Brooklyn70

thevoiceover said:


> I have no DAC, just trying now to get 1/4 to RCA via laptop headphone, iPad, shield controller, mp3 player and they all sound low to me.  I have tried both connections for headphone out and they each sound low. Each device has been turned to it's maximum. Even at high gain, still sounds low although it's a little louder.


Are you using the singlended or the 4 pin XLR headphone jack??    I’m using the XLR jacks on the input and the headphone jack.  And I have no bro lemme rumbling my Fostex T50RP mk2’s


----------



## TeeQ

thevoiceover said:


> I have no DAC, just trying now to get 1/4 to RCA via laptop headphone, iPad, shield controller, mp3 player and they all sound low to me.  I have tried both connections for headphone out and they each sound low. Each device has been turned to it's maximum. Even at high gain, still sounds low although it's a little louder.



One anecdotal, take this with 2 lumps of salt note that came to mind.

Before leaving to hit the road, I watched the new avengers UHD. Xbox one X - Dolby atoms for headphones->Optical->iFi xDSD in line out mode->3.5mm to RCA->Jot->XLR->Focal clear or Aeon closed, cant remember. But the big thing is i also remember the volume out put being less than awesome in this setup and had thought it was just do to being a very dynamic sound track or something. Think i also had the Jot on high gain and about maxed out when watching as well.

Just put the movie on via movies anywhere and using USB from laptop to DAC in Jot and I'm not going over Noon on the volume nob in high gain before its way too loud. PC->USB->Jot->XLR->Ether flow.

The 4k bluray track master vs the streaming version of the movie could throw all of what i have said above out the window as well too.

So like i said, completely anecdotal and should not be taken as any kind of fact.


----------



## thevoiceover (Oct 18, 2018)

rkw said:


> Now if you connect the laptop's headphone jack to the Jot RCA input, you should definitely get a strong output from the Jot. If you don't, either the RCA cable is defective or the Jot is defective.
> 
> BTW, when you say you tried both connections for headphone out, do you mean 1/4"  and balanced XLR?



Yes I tried 1/4 and balanced XLR headphone connections, each were still low.

The only connections I have tried to the RCA in on the Jot was from two different line out (3.5mm) to RCA cables ( one was ugreen the other is monster I believe ) and ran it from headphone out of laptop ( volume turned full ) and my portable MP3 from it's headphone out volume full -  to the Jot and it's still low. I do not have access to anything to test how loud it is, but I just know it is way too low and nowhere near earbleeding or worth an upgrade. It is almost near the same loudness I get running my headphones directly to the said devices.


----------



## rkw

thevoiceover said:


> Yes I tried 1/4 and balanced XLR headphone connections, each were still low.
> 
> The only connections I have tried to the RCA in on the Jot was from two different line out (3.5mm) to RCA cables ( one was ugreen the other is monster I believe ) and ran it from headphone out of laptop ( volume turned full ) and my portable MP3 from it's headphone out volume full -  to the Jot and it's still low. I do not have access to anything to test how loud it is, but I just know it is way too low and nowhere near earbleeding or worth an upgrade. It is almost near the same loudness I get running my headphones directly to the said devices.


You're doing the right things to make it work. I also have a Jot and HD6XX myself and it's a great pairing. I normally run it from a DAC, but I just tried connecting it to a phone headphone jack and I get plenty of volume. Honestly I think there might be something wrong with your Jot. I suggest you contact Schiit through their support email.

You mentioned a Denon. Do you mean a Denon receiver? If so, try connecting line-out from the receiver to SE input on the Jot (RCA to RCA cables). If that still produces low volume, it's almost certainly a problem in the Jot.


----------



## UntilThen

My audio journey so far. Bought Yggdrasil and Ragnarok last year. After 8 months, I got a Glenn OTL tube amp and sold off Rag a few months after that. Recently I miss having a solid state amp and pick up a 2nd hand Jotumheim. My memory of Rag has kind of faded but Jot sounds clearer and more vivid. Pairing with LCD-2f, it brings out the details I've not heard in the planar hp before. I'm running Jot balanced in from Yggy and I've xlr termination for my LCD-2f. This is a very good setup and Jot is good value for money with the right headphones.... and definitely run it in balance mode. Astonishing power and clarity without the fatigue and harshness.

I use the HD800 with the Glenn OTL but find myself reaching for the HD650 and LCD-2f when using Jot.


----------



## thevoiceover (Oct 25, 2018)

Hey guys, I had a little more time today to try to figure my Jot out and why it seems to not be that loud to me when I am connected either directly to my laptop, phone, tablet and/or MP3 player (that are turned fully up.)

I wanted to start and say chemo this round hasn’t been too good to me and I haven’t the desire to do this testing, but feel I need to sooner than later if I’m having hardware issues with my Jot. I will try to explain this as quick and the best of my knowledge as possible.


For starters, my friend let me borrow his decibel tester, I do not know how accurate this may be, but it has given me an idea of the ranges I prefer (or at least what the meter tells me.)  I tested this first in a standard listening environment of being at home on the couch.  I used my Denon receiver with all front Klipsch, SVS sub and all back Elacs.  At my couch with the meter in hand I seemed to like a range of about 75-78 for comfortable listening and loud I liked about 85 dBA. I didn’t mind the mid and upper 60 range either.


Then came testing the HD 6XX with XLR. I first tested my amazon fire tablet>Jot and it showed (volume up fully on Jot and device, low gain) around 75 - 78 dBA. Realizing during this I did not have my 3.5mm hookup for my headphones (to test HD 6XX directly to tablet) and couldn’t find them for the life of me, I switched to my sons Astro A40s. I noticed from tablet directly I was getting about 83 - 85 dBA, more than my HD 6XX we’re getting for sure. Then from tablet>Jot I was getting around 87-89 dBA, low gain on full knob turn.  This in my opinion tells me there is not enough amplification going on from the Jot when my devices are connected.


I personally feel this dBA range from the Jot I am seeing is too low.  When I hook up my Denon directly to my sons Astros, I set my volume level at probably 1/2 of its max and I’m getting over 90 dBA (what I was expecting,) but felt it was pushing them too much. They sound horrible as it is, but even when I had my HD 6XX hooked directly to my Denon in the past, I had almost ear bleed when the volume wasn’t much higher than half (I would have guessed 110 - 120 dBA!)  - but ohh was it nice.


Does it sound to you guys like a possible error with my Jot?  Do you guys have a meter and can tell me around the dBA levels you guys see from direct source such as phone/ tablet > Jot and maybe similar headphones?  Does it push over 100 dBA easily for you all? Should it? I just want to make sure my body isn’t just teasing me now and I’m still sane for the moment.


My apologies that this wasn’t as quick and direct as I could have been, but I was trying to paint this picture a little more clear.


Smile,

TVO


----------



## mwr2700

thevoiceover said:


> Hey guys, I had a little more time today to try to figure my Jot out and why it seems to not be that loud to me when I am connected either directly to my laptop, phone, tablet and/or MP3 player (that are turned fully up.)
> 
> I wanted to start and say chemo this round hasn’t been too good to me and I haven’t the desire to do this testing, but feel I need to sooner than later if I’m having hardware issues with my Jot. I will try to explain this as quick and the best of my knowledge as possible.
> 
> ...



I may have missed it, but how are you connecting the source (tablet) to the Jot?  What cable and connectors and what input jacks on the Jot?


----------



## mwr2700

thevoiceover said:


> Hey guys, I had a little more time today to try to figure my Jot out and why it seems to not be that loud to me when I am connected either directly to my laptop, phone, tablet and/or MP3 player (that are turned fully up.)
> 
> I wanted to start and say chemo this round hasn’t been too good to me and I haven’t the desire to do this testing, but feel I need to sooner than later if I’m having hardware issues with my Jot. I will try to explain this as quick and the best of my knowledge as possible.
> 
> ...



Also rkw above made an excellent suggestion:

"You mentioned a Denon. Do you mean a Denon receiver? If so, try connecting line-out from the receiver to SE input on the Jot (RCA to RCA cables). If that still produces low volume, it's almost certainly a problem in the Jot."


----------



## GrussGott

mwr2700 said:


> I may have missed it, but how are you connecting the source (tablet) to the Jot?  What cable and connectors and what input jacks on the Jot?



This is the key ask - Can you type out the exact chain including every component, example:

Fire tablet -> USB OTG cable -> Generic USB cable -> Jot Dac Card
or
whatever DAC -> generic RCA cables -> Jot RCA in


----------



## thevoiceover (Oct 25, 2018)

mwr2700 said:


> I may have missed it, but how are you connecting the source (tablet) to the Jot?  What cable and connectors and what input jacks on the Jot?




The source is strictly 3.5 to RCA, I will have to get my wife to hook some RCA cables up for me to test the other, but I have a feeling it is going to be fine that route. Maybe it’s me, but I just thought a “headphone amp” at this price should provide more than a few decibel amplification to me, I’m not going to draw conclusions thought until I test the RCA from my Denon Receiver to my SE input.  I don’t understand the circuitry fully ( for the different inputs and if one maybe faulty ) but is it possible to test from my headphone out of the Denon, to my RCA input on the back of the Jot?

BTW @GrussGott - Strictly tablet, phone , and / or MP3 player line out to RCA in via 3.5 to RCA.   This would be the ideal scenario that my wife would use at her bedside.


----------



## Suopermanni

thevoiceover said:


> The source is strictly 3.5 to RCA, I will have to get my wife to hook some RCA cables up for me to test the other, but I have a feeling it is going to be fine that route. Maybe it’s me, but I just thought a “headphone amp” at this price should provide more than a few decibel amplification to me, I’m not going to draw conclusions thought until I test the RCA from my Denon Receiver to my SE input.  I don’t understand the circuitry fully ( for the different inputs and if one maybe faulty ) but is it possible to test from my headphone out of the Denon, to my RCA input on the back of the Jot?
> 
> BTW @GrussGott - Strictly tablet, phone , and / or MP3 player line out to RCA in via 3.5 to RCA.   This would be the ideal scenario that my wife would use at her bedside.



The reason that they want you to use the RCA out of the Denon to the RCA In of the Jot is to see if the Jot is indeed the issue. The Denon's RCA Out should provided line level voltage which your other sources might not be outputting.


----------



## Byronb

Why are you running the Jot on low gain? Or did I miss something?


----------



## rkw (Oct 26, 2018)

thevoiceover said:


> Does it sound to you guys like a possible error with my Jot?


I would say yes, based on what you've told us.

Connect the line out from your Denon receiver to the SE input of the Jot (RCA to RCA cables). If you still get low output, it would pretty much confirm that there is a problem with your Jot (assuming that the Denon's line out is working correctly).


----------



## mwr2700

If 1) you're running a 3.5mm to 2-male RCA adapter cable from a cell phone to the SE input in the Jot and 
   2) both switches on the front of the Jot (input and gain) are both in the down position and
   3) your source (phone) is set to max volume

a properly running Jotunheim will be painfull at half volume and bleed your ears at full volume


----------



## GrussGott (Oct 26, 2018)

mwr2700 said:


> If 1) you're running a 3.5mm to 2-male RCA adapter cable from a cell phone to the SE input in the Jot and
> 2) both switches on the front of the Jot (input and gain) are both in the down position and
> 3) your source (phone) is set to max volume
> 
> a properly running Jotunheim will be painfull at half volume and bleed your ears at full volume


Great Response!  This, and if you still don't get volume seems like either the line out cable or the jot.  The Denon RCA-RCA check should give you the answer.

In short, there's no way a Jot is just a few decibels - I just ran @thevoiceover 's config with ZMF Eikons (300 ohms)  and it was deafing at 9 o'clock on high gain and 11 o'clock on low gain

Full volume on a jot should turn the room into a tesla coil  ... I'm pretty sure this is @Jason Stoddard testing a jot ... I might be wrong, it's happened before:


----------



## LA2019

Hi guys. Question about my Jotunheim. 


I picked it up used and the unit has the optional MM phono board.  Everything about the unit works fine except for the phono input.  It works but polarity is reversed (sucked out center and wooly bass).  I need to flip the polarity on one of my speakers in order to use the phono section.  I've used both single ended and balanced out to my Classe SSP-600 pre-amp with the same results. My turntable/tone arm are fine because I have access to another phono preamp.   What is odd though is that if I use headphones the polarity is fine.


I have not contacted Schiit.  I'm not sure if they will help because I am not the original owner. I will contact them on Monday.  Just curious if anyone else has had this issue?


Thanks,

Ken


----------



## Dabbaranks (Dec 13, 2018)

Just installed the Multibit dac into my Jot, just wanted to share some tips for people who are clumsy like me and knocked the hell out of the led.

I forgot who posted the how to install pdf in here but thank you very much it helped a lot!

For the led, if you have knocked it out of place taking the cover off/on, when you get the cover clips seated back into the case and you’re back at around 1/4 inch of slack, you can flip the unit and fit a small screw driver into the gap and align the led back into the hole before you slide the case back into place. Also it’s winter for a lot of ppl so keep the unit atleast in room temperature before you do this so the sodder or legs don’t snap. But Schiit is using some high quality stuff because I really mangled mine.

Also a word of caution, my hardware didn’t seem to fit properly, the screw hole for my USB back plate is too high up so it wasn’t letting the module sit flush (after attaching the silver screw the module would look completely bent ~20 degrees), I ended up backing the silver pole out a bit and also just ignoring the backplate screw hole all together and now the black screw just sits above the plate holding it in with pressure.

First impressions, my Jot sounds warmer, more relaxed and less sterile, it’s also physically warmer lol, and sounds better already than my Fulla 2 dac it’s replacing. I also have a Hiby R6 but haven’t done much comparison yet.


----------



## Tex Irie

MWSVette said:


> Agreed I too bought the Jot amp only.  The add-on cards for me were not necessary as I already had a Bimby.  Even now with the multibit card unless I absolutely had to have an all in one the Mimby or Bimby are better DACs and more flexible.
> 
> When it was only the Jot I was not concerned, but now with the Lyr 3 going in the Amp/DAC direction and Jason talking about an AB class Asgard 3 Amp/DAC and potentially doing away with the Valhalla 2. I begin to wonder if Schiit is moving away from their each component in its own box philosophy.
> 
> I would hate to see that as I love stackable Schiit...


That's a lot of Schiit going on in that photo.


----------



## UntilThen

My tube amp is out of action at the moment but this combo does it for me. I did not expect Jotunheim to perform this well with this setup. It really opens up the LCD-2f.


----------



## Tex Irie

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all,  

Just out of curiosity has anyone tried pairing the Jotunheim Amp with the Chord Hugo 1 or 2 and compared it to a Jotunheim + Bimby Combo?


----------



## the finisher (Dec 24, 2018)

Paging @commtrd

He may have Gumby though.


----------



## commtrd

No my Schiit stack was the original Mjolnir/Gungnir, way before multi-bit. I am personally most intrigued with Yggdrasil. I did try a Ragnarok but didnt care for it too much and sent it back. I too am extremely curious to read reviews comparing Hugo 2 with Yggy, Gumby, and Aries Cerat dacs. 

I have been ecstatic about Hugo 2. Still zero complaints whatsoever. Just researching for consensus views on DACs and amps so I can make an educated decision when the time comes.


----------



## Tex Irie

What brave soul will try a Hugo v1 or Hugo 2 paired with the venerable Jotunheim as an Amp in the name of SCIENCE ???

Merry Christmas!! to all that indulge. If you do not partake in the festivities .. Happy Tuesday !


----------



## Tex Irie

commtrd said:


> No my Schiit stack was the original Mjolnir/Gungnir, way before multi-bit. I am personally most intrigued with Yggdrasil. I did try a Ragnarok but didnt care for it too much and sent it back. I too am extremely curious to read reviews comparing Hugo 2 with Yggy, Gumby, and Aries Cerat dacs.
> 
> I have been ecstatic about Hugo 2. Still zero complaints whatsoever. Just researching for consensus views on DACs and amps so I can make an educated decision when the time comes.


Thank you @commtrd and @the finisher for the input.


----------



## theveterans

commtrd said:


> No my Schiit stack was the original Mjolnir/Gungnir, way before multi-bit. I am personally most intrigued with Yggdrasil. I did try a Ragnarok but didnt care for it too much and sent it back. I too am extremely curious to read reviews comparing Hugo 2 with Yggy, Gumby, and Aries Cerat dacs.
> 
> I have been ecstatic about Hugo 2. Still zero complaints whatsoever. Just researching for consensus views on DACs and amps so I can make an educated decision when the time comes.



Transparent DAC to a neutral bright amp = bright but very resolving/quick sound. I'd always pair a warmer DAC to Jot to balance the sound. Yggdrasil might do but it won't be as warm as say Denafrips Terminator or Metrum Pavane


----------



## commtrd

I once thought the chain must be brutally accurate to not embellish the output in any way, but now I kind of like a little added warmth to enhance the overall listening pleasure and reduce fatigue also.


----------



## PhalanxInferna

I am having a hard time making a choice between the Jot with a DAC module vs the AAA 789 and an external dac (enog pro 2 or smsl su-8). The Jot is appealing to me being an all in one and saving on desk space and cabling. 
Although posts in this thread have also made me consider getting the amp only Jot and buying a Modi Multi.


----------



## Tex Irie

PhalanxInferna said:


> I am having a hard time making a choice between the Jot with a DAC module vs the AAA 789 and an external dac (enog pro 2 or smsl su-8). The Jot is appealing to me being an all in one and saving on desk space and cabling.
> Although posts in this thread have also made me consider getting the amp only Jot and buying a Modi Multi.


It's a pretty power Amplifier for the price and it doesn't add color to the DAC of your choice. I use it with a Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital and tried it with a Schiit Bifrost Multibit. Also pairs lovely with Planar Magnetic Headphones.


----------



## aisalen

PhalanxInferna said:


> I am having a hard time making a choice between the Jot with a DAC module vs the AAA 789 and an external dac (enog pro 2 or smsl su-8). The Jot is appealing to me being an all in one and saving on desk space and cabling.
> Although posts in this thread have also made me consider getting the amp only Jot and buying a Modi Multi.


Based on my experience, internal dac for Jot is not good so I am using smsl m8 with a very good result. Upgraditis kicks-in so I sold the m8 and replace it smsl su-8, based on the result I got from the m8 I am sure that I will not be disappointed.


----------



## davesa

So I have read through this thread a bunch over break... and I have seemed to pick up some conflicting info - some threads say the multibit DAC ( or DAC cards in general ) are powered by USB. Others imply they are powered by the Jot, and you should leave it on for best performance, so the DAC is more at equilibrium.

Which is it? Is the DAC powered by the USB connection or from the Jot?

Thanks! My new Jot arrived today and so far I am enjoying it. Taking it to work tomorrow to show it off with a few headphones for some of the guys at work but enjoying fun audition time tonight


----------



## Byronb

According to correspondents I have had with Schiit their DAC modules do not need to be left on all the time.


----------



## rkw

davesa said:


> Which is it? Is the DAC powered by the USB connection or from the Jot?


The USB interface portion of the card is powered by the USB. The DAC portion is powered by the Jot.


----------



## Hysth

Tex Irie said:


> It's a pretty power Amplifier for the price and it doesn't add color to the DAC of your choice. I use it with a Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital and tried it with a Schiit Bifrost Multibit. Also pairs lovely with Planar Magnetic Headphones.



Glad to hear that, as I just ordered a Jotunheim to use with my HifiMan Arya. Should be a pretty good combo. I did get it without the DAC though, as I've read it doesn't measure too well. Can't wait to test drive it later this week!


----------



## m usicguy

I just ordered my Jotunheim.  I have an Asgard 2.  Which gets hot.  So i stand it on its side.  Does The Jotunheim benefit from standing on it side also?  How Hot does it get?

Musicguy


----------



## Cruxiaer

m usicguy said:


> I just ordered my Jotunheim.  I have an Asgard 2.  Which gets hot.  So i stand it on its side.  Does The Jotunheim benefit from standing on it side also?  How Hot does it get?
> 
> Musicguy


Never tried standing mine on its side. Mine has a built in DAC. The case gets to around 40C with the internals around 46C. Room temperature is 27C.


----------



## tempwave

I have a jot with the balanced dac on the way today... Weather permitting. I'm a pretty big newb to the headphone game but I also have a smsl su 8. When I use the Jot at work I plan to use the internal dac. Should I use the smsl Su-8 when I use it at home? Will there be considerable difference?


----------



## rkw

tempwave said:


> When I use the Jot at work I plan to use the internal dac. Should I use the smsl Su-8 when I use it at home? Will there be considerable difference?


The short answer is that you're in an ideal position to compare while using your own source and headphones, and decide which you like better. They use different DAC chips and it may turn out to be a matter of preference rather than one sounding obviously better than the other.


----------



## Mizicke5273

I have a Topping D50, which some say sounds exactly like the SMSL SU-8, and the Jot w/multibit DAC.  I know it is not an exact apples to apples, but I cannot honestly hear any difference between the two DACs.  But that is me with my gear.


----------



## m usicguy

Just got my Jotunheim.   Right out of the box.  Pretty good.  I have an asgard 2,  Kinda shows how good  the asgard 2 is for 250$.    I would say so far the Jot is 8% better.  This is all single ended.   I bought this amp to have a daily driver for balanced headphones.  I only use my cavalli on weekends for long term listening.    

So more to follow.

musicguy


----------



## 329161

Silly question, can you listen to the balanced output if you're going SE from your DAC, and is there any benefit from doing that?


----------



## sup27606

dcfac73 said:


> Silly question, can you listen to the balanced output if you're going SE from your DAC, and is there any benefit from doing that?



yes, you can go from SE DAC input to balanced headphone out. Even when using SE input from DAC, using the balanced headphone out leads to significant sonic improvement in terms of more pronounced bass and wider soundstage, as compared to the SE headphone out. This should depend on the headphone type. Balanced delivers almost 4x the power of SE. So, those phones that scale well with additional power, like the high impedance Sennheisers improve more using the balanced out, than low impedance mobile-friendly phones.


----------



## Namtar

Well, I have  Jot with the D/S DAC coming this weekend.  Hoping it'll be a blacker background than the Emotiva A-100, and also hoping the 4490 G2 card is better than my PC Motherboard.
Getting myself back into Schiit!


----------



## PointyFox (Jan 16, 2019)

Namtar said:


> Well, I have  Jot with the D/S DAC coming this weekend.  Hoping it'll be a blacker background than the Emotiva A-100, and also hoping the 4490 G2 card is better than my PC Motherboard.
> Getting myself back into Schiit!



My first Jot had terrible background noise. Apparently something was wrong with it because I returned it and got another and the new one has zero audible noise, even with the most sensitive IEMs. Apparently it was some sort of grounding issue with the case that occurred on a few units. Schiit implemented an inspection for the defect.


----------



## Namtar

PointyFox said:


> My first Jot had terrible background noise. Apparently something was wrong with it because I returned it and got another and the new one has zero audible noise, even with the most sensitive IEMs. Apparently it was some sort of grounding issue with the case that occurred on a few units. Schiit implemented an inspection for the defect.


My A-100 noise is just amplifier noise.  I'm running it in full power mode with HE-4XX headphones which aren't exactly the intended cans for having the jumpers installed.  I'm not disappointed in the A-100 by any stretch - It stepped up the cans vs being unamped running from my PC motherboard tremendously (even with the speaker hiss).   I figure the Jot ought to be endgame level amplification for me once I get a balanced cable - and I can upgrade to a proper non-integrated DAC later on down the road.  But for now a one box headphone unit will be nice to have.


----------



## Dabbaranks

Namtar said:


> My A-100 noise is just amplifier noise.  I'm running it in full power mode with HE-4XX headphones which aren't exactly the intended cans for having the jumpers installed.  I'm not disappointed in the A-100 by any stretch - It stepped up the cans vs being unamped running from my PC motherboard tremendously (even with the speaker hiss).   I figure the Jot ought to be endgame level amplification for me once I get a balanced cable - and I can upgrade to a proper non-integrated DAC later on down the road.  But for now a one box headphone unit will be nice to have.



Excited for you, my home desk set up is currently the 400i and jot with multibit dac module and I couldn’t be happier. And in terms of hiss is have to go past comfortable listening volume to hear it.


----------



## PointyFox

If you can hear hiss in the Jot it is from the source or DAC.


----------



## Namtar

I'm sure it will have a low noise floor.  I'll update my thoughts early next week.  I won't get to play with the new toy for a bit since I may get stuck at work for inventory during a small snow storm.


----------



## alpovs

PointyFox said:


> Apparently it was some sort of grounding issue with the case that occurred on a few units. Schiit implemented an inspection for the defect.


Unfortunately it occurred on a lot of units. Mine was like that and I fixed it myself. The newer units won't have this problem as they ensure the grounding is there before they ship the unit, as you said.


----------



## m usicguy (Jan 17, 2019)

my new Jot.  1/16/18  dead quiet

call me crazy this amp is way more dynamic than Asgard 2


----------



## donutbits

Using the jotunheim currently with Modi Multibit after buying both from selling my JDS Labs Element to help fund them. No regrets


----------



## Mizicke5273

Question for those Jotunheim owners that have the multibit DAC card in their Jot:  Have any of you compared this DAC with a Topping D50?  I have both and cannot really tell any difference between either's sound.  Swapping between the two DACs, while listening to the same song, I just cannot hear a difference.  So, I am wondering if both DACs just sound that similar or if I simply cannot hear the difference in them.  So, if anyone has heard both, what was your experience with them?


----------



## Scutey

Hi guys, seriously considering a Jotunheim to go with my Beyer DT 1990's, would it be considered a good upgrade over a Magni 2?.


----------



## PointyFox

Scutey said:


> Hi guys, seriously considering a Jotunheim to go with my Beyer DT 1990's, would it be considered a good upgrade over a Magni 2?.



Probably if you pay enough for it.


----------



## sixstringmonk (Jan 26, 2019)

So I just experienced the infamous "ringing" glitch with my Jot multi-bit / Windows 10. This is the first time I've noticed it having owned the unit since late June 2018. I heard a faint ringing noise in the left channel on some newly purchased hi-res tracks. I initially thought it was the file, but I switched to my speakers running off of my onboard sound card and the ringing was not present. I then went into Sound control panel -> playback tab -> Schiit ->  properties -> advanced -> test. The ringing was really obvious on the left / right audio test. Turning the unit off and back on again immediately fixed the issue. The best way I can describe the ringing is that it sounded like a "crystalize" or "sitar" patch on a cheap guitar effects unit. ...kind of like a resonating ring filter or similar.


----------



## Dabbaranks

sixstringmonk said:


> So I just experienced the infamous "ringing" glitch with my Jot multi-bit / Windows 10.



This is actually the first time I’ve heard of this, and I thought I’ve been going crazy since I’ve experienced it twice.


----------



## connieflyer

Hi Scutey,  see you are considering a Jotenhiem,  a new member on the Euforia thread, triggsviola,  has experience with what you are looking for you may want to reconsider. His thoughts are on page 366, he is online right now if you care to engage.  He just got his Euforia and has some nice equipment with lots of phones.  Good luck.


----------



## MikeW (Feb 2, 2019)

sixstringmonk said:


> So I just experienced the infamous "ringing" glitch with my Jot multi-bit / Windows 10. This is the first time I've noticed it having owned the unit since late June 2018. I heard a faint ringing noise in the left channel on some newly purchased hi-res tracks. I initially thought it was the file, but I switched to my speakers running off of my onboard sound card and the ringing was not present. I then went into Sound control panel -> playback tab -> Schiit ->  properties -> advanced -> test. The ringing was really obvious on the left / right audio test. Turning the unit off and back on again immediately fixed the issue. The best way I can describe the ringing is that it sounded like a "crystalize" or "sitar" patch on a cheap guitar effects unit. ...kind of like a resonating ring filter or similar.



They all do this occasionally. It's pretty rare, a power cycle clear's it up. I emailed schiit about it awhile back and they played dumb, but I know they can't not know about it. I think modi-multibit users sometimes experience it too with USB. My theory is just usb driver foolery. I've not experienced it since I turned off usb power management in windows settings.


----------



## Dabbaranks

MikeW said:


> They all do this occasionally. It's pretty rare, a power cycle clear's it up. I emailed schiit about it awhile back and they played dumb, but I know they can't not know about it. I think modi-multibit users sometimes experience it too with USB. My theory is just usb driver foolery. I've not experienced it since I turned off usb power management in windows settings.



I’ll report that mine hasn’t done the right channel ringing for over a month now, happened to me twice since installing the multi bit (installed Dec 12th, 2018) but both times was within the first two weeks of install. On windows 10.


----------



## the finisher (Feb 2, 2019)

connieflyer said:


> Hi Scutey,  see you are considering a Jotenhiem,  a new member on the Euforia thread, triggsviola,  has experience with what you are looking for you may want to reconsider. His thoughts are on page 366, he is online right now if you care to engage.  He just got his Euforia and has some nice equipment with lots of phones.  Good luck.




https://www.wikileaf.com/strain/euforia/

Kinda not even similar things here except both are headphone amps.

Love my Jot


----------



## Tuneslover

MikeW said:


> They all do this occasionally. It's pretty rare, a power cycle clear's it up. I emailed schiit about it awhile back and they played dumb, but I know they can't not know about it. I think modi-multibit users sometimes experience it too with USB. My theory is just usb driver foolery. I've not experienced it since I turned off usb power management in windows settings.



Schiit knows about it and they were the ones that recommended power cycling to clear up the ringing.  Incidentally I only use Toslink and Coaxial inputs and have experienced the ringing.  Yep, power cycle your Mimby once in a while and it will be fine.


----------



## the finisher




----------



## Scutey

connieflyer said:


> Hi Scutey,  see you are considering a Jotenhiem,  a new member on the Euforia thread, triggsviola,  has experience with what you are looking for you may want to reconsider. His thoughts are on page 366, he is online right now if you care to engage.  He just got his Euforia and has some nice equipment with lots of phones.  Good luck.


Hi cf, apologies for not replying sooner, thanks for letting me know, I will take a look, I was after another amp, for casual listening, so it will be valuable info!.


----------



## tamleo (Feb 18, 2019)

Hello guys,
I have been listened to the ModiMultibit/Magni3 combo for 6 months. I like the combo because it is very detailed. But now I find its sound to be too thick and have a dim in the upper mids range paired with my LCD-2 and v-shaped paired with my DBA-02 iem.
Can you guys please tell me how much the Jot sounds less thick and v-shaped compared to the Magni3?
Sorry for my English and thank you!


----------



## the finisher

I have not compared the two.

But the jotunheim is certainly not thick. It is very neutral.


----------



## Tuneslover (Feb 18, 2019)

tamleo said:


> Hello guys,
> I have been listened to the ModiMultibit/Magni3 combo for 6 months. I like the combo because it is very detailed. But now I find its sound to be too thick and have a dim in the upper mids range paired with my LCD-2 and v-shaped paired with my DBA-02 iem.
> Can you guys please tell me how much the Jot sounds less thick and v-shaped compared to the Magni3?
> Sorry for my English and thank you!



I started out with the original Magni (and Modi), then upgraded to the Magni 2U.  Eventually upgraded to the Jotunheim (because I was interested in going balanced) when it came out.  I still have the Jotunheim and have no plans on replacing it.  It is a cleaner sounding amp than the Magni's but still a bit on the bright side but no where as harsh sounding as the those Magni's.  I tried various headphones with it but my favourite combo is with the HD6XX (stock cable re-terminated to XLR) with Dekoni Elite Velour (which nicely calms down the treble) and the Modi MB.


MikeW said:


> They all do this occasionally. It's pretty rare, a power cycle clear's it up. I emailed schiit about it awhile back and they played dumb, but I know they can't not know about it. I think modi-multibit users sometimes experience it too with USB. My theory is just usb driver foolery. I've not experienced it since I turned off usb power management in windows settings.



They do know about it!  They recommended the reboot to fix the problem...which it does.


----------



## Anonimar (Nov 18, 2022)

Picked up a Jotunheim used from @ACDOAN , so far I'm liking it.


----------



## benshabat

Can the Jotunheim properly drive an LCD-4? Will it make a difference if I get the 4z?


----------



## wizzman121

Just upgraded from Magni 3 to the Jot.  Even with the SE output this thing sounds amazing.  I am waiting for balanced cables to come in for my 1060, 6XX and Argon headphones.


----------



## PointyFox

benshabat said:


> Can the Jotunheim properly drive an LCD-4? Will it make a difference if I get the 4z?



Yes. No.


benshabat said:


> Can the Jotunheim properly drive an LCD-4? Will it make a difference if I get the 4z?


It can drive both easily. Also selling a black Jotunheim if anyone's interested.


----------



## benshabat

Awesome, thanks for the response!


----------



## volly

wizzman121 said:


> Just upgraded from Magni 3 to the Jot.  Even with the SE output this thing sounds amazing.  I am waiting for balanced cables to come in for my 1060, 6XX and Argon headphones.


Congrats and very nice mate! How's the SMSL SU-8 holding up? You got her piped through to the Jot?


----------



## aisalen

wizzman121 said:


> Just upgraded from Magni 3 to the Jot.  Even with the SE output this thing sounds amazing.  I am waiting for balanced cables to come in for my 1060, 6XX and Argon headphones.



Same setup as mine using balanced cable from SU to Jot, while SE from SU to DV336.


----------



## wizzman121

volly said:


> Congrats and very nice mate! How's the SMSL SU-8 holding up? You got her piped through to the Jot?


Yeah I have the SU-8 hooked up via XLR to the Jot at the moment.  I am just waiting for a few balanced headphone cables to come in to complete the fully balanced setup.  I have to say I am really happy with how things sound via the single ended output though.


aisalen said:


> Same setup as mine using balanced cable from SU to Jot, while SE from SU to DV336.


Yeah I have been considering picking up a tube amp just to see what the whole tube thing is about.  The Darkvoice seems to be one of the best places to start.


----------



## tamleo

wizzman121 said:


> Just upgraded from Magni 3 to the Jot.  Even with the SE output this thing sounds amazing.  I am waiting for balanced cables to come in for my 1060, 6XX and Argon headphones.


Is it much better than the Magni 3?


----------



## wizzman121 (Apr 4, 2019)

tamleo said:


> Is it much better than the Magni 3?


I have not done extensive A-B testing but I did hook up the Magni and Jot right off the bat.  I am no audiophile and do not have the vocabulary to really communicate the difference.  That said to put it simply it seems like the Jot produces a bit more full sound with less effort.  The Magni still sounds pretty good but it seems like its working harder to do it.  This seems more evident at lower listening volumes.  Like I said I did not do extensive A-B testing but I did enough to rule out placebo lol.  I also like that I can insert a headphone cable into the Jot and it doesn't move, whereas you have to hold the Magni in place since it is so tiny.  I can't wait to try the balanced output on the Jot.


----------



## Tuneslover

wizzman121 said:


> Yeah I have the SU-8 hooked up via XLR to the Jot at the moment.  I am just waiting for a few balanced headphone cables to come in to complete the fully balanced setup.



I also have the Jot and my HD6XX has been re-terminated to XLR but my DAC is the Modi MB which is SE.  I'm tempted to pull the trigger on SU-8 in order to get the full path in balanced but I have read that the SU-8 is a fairly bright sounding DAC and doesn't have the same bass quality of the Modi MB.  How do you like the sound of the SU-8 and Jot combo, obviously in SE mode for now until you go XLR on your headphones?


----------



## Tuneslover

Tuneslover said:


> I also have the Jot and my HD6XX has been re-terminated to XLR but my DAC is the Modi MB which is SE.  I'm tempted to pull the trigger on SU-8 in order to get the full path in balanced but I have read that the SU-8 is a fairly bright sounding DAC and doesn't have the same bass quality of the Modi MB.  How do you like the sound of the SU-8 and Jot combo, obviously in SE mode for now until you go XLR on your headphones?



I decided to complete the full balanced chain so yesterday I ordered the SU-8 from Shenzhenaudio.  Also ordered a pair of Monoprice XLR connectors from Amazon.


----------



## mwb1

To be honest, I'm not much of a headphone music listener.  I'm much more into speakers, and all of my headphone/earbud listening happens when I am working at my computer.

A few years ago I bought a set of Sony MDR-1A headphones and I like them.  They wouldn't work with the cheap NuForce DAC/amp I had at the time, so, being a Schiit fan, I bought a Fulla 2, which I thought had decent sound for the price.

When the Jot came out, it was something I was interested in, but I kept convincing myself that I wasn't into headphone listening enough to justify laying out that kind of money.

One night a few weeks ago I said WTH, and ordered a black Jot w/ multi-bit DAC card.  The next day I had major buyers remorse and was kicking myself for spending $600+ on a computer headphone amp.  I looked up the restocking fee and tentatively planned on returning the Jot without even listening to it.  

When it arrived I couldn't help but open it up to have a look.  I connected it to my iMac, and had a listen.

I absolutely love it.  Instead of kicking myself for ordering a $600+ headphone amp, I've been kicking myself for not buying this sooner.

I'm sure there are better DAC/amps out there, but this is a huge improvement from what I was using and I am really happy with it.


----------



## Tuneslover

mwb1 said:


> To be honest, I'm not much of a headphone music listener.  I'm much more into speakers, and all of my headphone/earbud listening happens when I am working at my computer.
> 
> A few years ago I bought a set of Sony MDR-1A headphones and I like them.  They wouldn't work with the cheap NuForce DAC/amp I had at the time, so, being a Schiit fan, I bought a Fulla 2, which I thought had decent sound for the price.
> 
> ...



I bought the original Jot (straight amp) when it came out a few years ago to replace my Magni 2 Uber.  A much better amp in my opinion.  Shortly after getting the Jot I re-terminated my HD650 and HE500 to balanced XLR in order to take advantage of the Jot's balanced capabilities.  Last week I ordered the SMSL SU-8 DAC which has balanced outputs thereby completing the fully balanced path straight into my ears.  Looking forward to its arrival next week.


----------



## volly

Tuneslover said:


> I bought the original Jot (straight amp) when it came out a few years ago to replace my Magni 2 Uber.  A much better amp in my opinion.  Shortly after getting the Jot I re-terminated my HD650 and HE500 to balanced XLR in order to take advantage of the Jot's balanced capabilities.  Last week I ordered the SMSL SU-8 DAC which has balanced outputs thereby completing the fully balanced path straight into my ears.  Looking forward to its arrival next week.


Hopefully this will wet your appetite a little @Tuneslover 


 
Theta DS Prime II balanced in to (Black) Jotunhiem, out to the AR-H1's (Balanced).

Good luck with the SU-8 mate, heard good things about it!


----------



## Tuneslover

Tuneslover said:


> I bought the original Jot (straight amp) when it came out a few years ago to replace my Magni 2 Uber.  A much better amp in my opinion.  Shortly after getting the Jot I re-terminated my HD650 and HE500 to balanced XLR in order to take advantage of the Jot's balanced capabilities.  Last week I ordered the SMSL SU-8 DAC which has balanced outputs thereby completing the fully balanced path straight into my ears.  Looking forward to its arrival next week.



My SMSL SU-8 arrived yesterday.  I swapped out the Schiit Mimby with this DAC.  The SU-8 has both XLR balanced, as well as, SE outputs which works really well for my setup.  The balanced output of the SU-8 goes directly into my Jotunheim completing the balanced chain directly into my ears.  The SE output of the SU-8 goes into my Schiit Loki and out into my NAD C326BEE integrated amp.  This puts the Loki exclusively into my speakers chain (the real reason as to why I bought the Loki, to help with my acoustically challenging room).

The SU-8 has a much richer sound with appreciably better detail which really improved the soundstage of my speaker system.  The sound can be nicely tweaked using the Loki.  A huge thumbs up!
As for the fully balanced headphone system, there is a total black background and once again the detail is amazing with excellent instrument separation.  The output sounds slightly higher than with the Modi MB.

I'm not quite sure if the 3D like sound reproduction produced by the Sabre chips is what makes this DAC sound so engaging or not but the bass seems to be slightly less impactful than the Mimby's but it's not a deal breaker whatsoever because the SU-8 still has good bass, perhaps slightly overshadowed by the detail and clarity.  I can easily adjust this with the Loki for the speaker system where it's most needed.  The same can be said with the balanced headphone setup, namely a slight taming of the bass but again it still sounds very satisfying.

This DAC solution in my setup is very very nice indeed.  I haven't tried all of the sound enhancement features yet but once I have fully adjusted to this DAC sound I will give it a try.


----------



## wizzman121

Tuneslover said:


> My SMSL SU-8 arrived yesterday.  I swapped out the Schiit Mimby with this DAC.  The SU-8 has both XLR balanced, as well as, SE outputs which works really well for my setup.  The balanced output of the SU-8 goes directly into my Jotunheim completing the balanced chain directly into my ears.  The SE output of the SU-8 goes into my Schiit Loki and out into my NAD C326BEE integrated amp.  This puts the Loki exclusively into my speakers chain (the real reason as to why I bought the Loki, to help with my acoustically challenging room).
> 
> The SU-8 has a much richer sound with appreciably better detail which really improved the soundstage of my speaker system.  The sound can be nicely tweaked using the Loki.  A huge thumbs up!
> As for the fully balanced headphone system, there is a total black background and once again the detail is amazing with excellent instrument separation.  The output sounds slightly higher than with the Modi MB.


Have you tried A-B-ing the balanced vs SE outputs on the Jot?


----------



## wizzman121

volly said:


> Hopefully this will wet your appetite a little @Tuneslover
> 
> 
> Theta DS Prime II balanced in to (Black) Jotunhiem, out to the AR-H1's (Balanced).
> ...


I really do like the look of your black Jot!  I already had a silver SMSL SU-8 though.  I wish it came in a black option!


----------



## Tuneslover

wizzman121 said:


> Have you tried A-B-ing the balanced vs SE outputs on the Jot?



No I haven’t yet but I will once I'm finished enjoying the balanced setup. As I stated in my previous post, the sound is noticeably cleaner and more detailed sounding than the Mimby SE route.


----------



## Willis

Hi can anyone advise whether i can use the jotunheim's pre out to the thx 789? 

I just want to use the balanced dac for the thx. Thanks.


----------



## Alcophone

Willis said:


> Hi can anyone advise whether i can use the jotunheim's pre out to the thx 789?
> 
> I just want to use the balanced dac for the thx. Thanks.


You can, a friend of mine did that with my 789 since he doesn't have a standalone DAC. Not ideal, but it'll work.


----------



## Willis

Alcophone said:


> You can, a friend of mine did that with my 789 since he doesn't have a standalone DAC. Not ideal, but it'll work.



Thanks for the advise, but in what way is it not ideal? As in the sound quality is not ideal? Thanks


----------



## Alcophone

Willis said:


> Thanks for the advise, but in what way is it not ideal? As in the sound quality is not ideal? Thanks


Just conceptually, since there are two potentiometers involved when only one is needed (you can minimize that effect by turning up the volume on one of the amps all the way - just remember that when you change the setup), the whole amplifier circuitry is active, etc. A pure DAC might yield better results.
I haven't actually tried it myself, though, so I can't comment on the sound in practice. If you have both devices already, just try it.


----------



## tompaz909

Anyone have a phono preamp module that they're wanting to sell?


----------



## Focux

Are there any Jot owners who also own the LCD X, ZMF Auteur and/or 650? 

Just picked up the Auteur and was concerned if my Atom was insufficient to power..


----------



## jimmers (May 19, 2019)

Focux said:


> Are there any Jot owners who also own the LCD X, ZMF Auteur and/or 650?
> 
> Just picked up the Auteur and was concerned if my Atom was insufficient to power..


I have a Jot and a Sennheiser HD650, why?

 The Atom should be able to take the Auteur to SPL 120dB (Atom is close to TI LME49600 reference design? except it uses a cheaper input IC)
Personally for normal listening Bimby to Jot balanced to HD650 I use High gain and volume control at <9 o'clock


----------



## Tuneslover

Focux said:


> Are there any Jot owners who also own the LCD X, ZMF Auteur and/or 650?
> 
> Just picked up the Auteur and was concerned if my Atom was insufficient to power..



I have the ALL balanced SMSL SU-8, Jotunheim and HD650 (with Dekoni Hybrid Elite ear pads).  Sounds excellent with plenty of detail and good bass.  I run the Jot in low gain at 11-12 o'clock.


----------



## Ksharp (May 20, 2019)

I have had my Jot with MB dac for a few days now. I bought off the Bay. So far I really enjoy it. I have an SMSL SU-8 coming to pair it with the Jot and my desktop speaker setup (Infinity P161 + Dayton APA 150). I was looking to get the Jot without a dac but I said what the heck. Glad I did because I can travel with it and move it around the house.

Coming from Xonar STX ii and Fiio e10. I always felt the Xonar was appreciably better vs the e10. When I travel I use the e10 and when I return home to the Xonar I would say "oh yea that's much better." That said the Xonar was always a little muted or muddy to my ears. By comparison the Jot with MB is much cleaner and all the sounds mix together better. I don't feel like I'm giving something up to gain something else. Hope that makes sense. Oh I have HD 6xx and MD-7506 but looking to head a few more.


----------



## workshirt

Focux said:


> Are there any Jot owners who also own the LCD X, ZMF Auteur and/or 650?


I have the Jotunheim and HD6XX, can confirm that it easily drives them and is my go to set up, based on both sound and how comfortable it is. I doubt your Atom is a problem as far as driving the HD6XX goes, the main reason I upgraded to the Jot was for IO.


----------



## Cirkustanz

wizzman121 said:


> Just upgraded from Magni 3 to the Jot.  Even with the SE output this thing sounds amazing.  I am waiting for balanced cables to come in for my 1060, 6XX and Argon headphones.



What cables did you end up getting for  your 6xx, and if you had to describe the upgrade...how would you?  I'm really considering a jotunheim.


----------



## Scutey

Hi all, Does anyone pair their Jotunheim with Beyer Dt 1990's ?.


----------



## Willis

my jot is very warm after using it for 30mins, does anyone else have this issue? is there any proposed remedy?


----------



## workshirt

Willis said:


> my jot is very warm after using it for 30mins, does anyone else have this issue? is there any proposed remedy?


I think that is normal and is not really an issue. I have left mine on for most of the time I have had it, and it is still going strong after almost 2 years.


----------



## TjPhysicist

Random question: more out of curiosity: Can i Connect a non balanced DAC TO THIS using RCA-XLR cables? I.e. DAC->RCA OUT->RCA-XLR->XLR IN->Jot ? Yes, your first question will be "why?".

Related question, not necessarily having to do with Jot directly but: i Can either run a 6 foot USB cable TO my DAC (Modi 3) OR run a 6 foot RCA cable FROM the DAC to Jot...which one is preferable?


----------



## volly

TjPhysicist said:


> Random question: more out of curiosity: Can i Connect a non balanced DAC TO THIS using RCA-XLR cables? I.e. DAC->RCA OUT->RCA-XLR->XLR IN->Jot ? Yes, your first question will be "why?".
> 
> Related question, not necessarily having to do with Jot directly but: i Can either run a 6 foot USB cable TO my DAC (Modi 3) OR run a 6 foot RCA cable FROM the DAC to Jot...which one is preferable?


Perhaps a 6 foot usb cable, as it's only one long cable instead of two RCA cables, unless they are spliced together. It really comes down what you're comfortable with and cost of cables! Sound wise, I believe there shouldn't be any issues but perhaps certain RCA cables can have problems picking EMF and other electrical issues. Whereas a decent usb cable should have the wiring for the power isolated really well, say like Wireworld cables!

If it was me, I'd run with the 6 foot USB cable and short RCA's.

Good luck.


----------



## TjPhysicist

volly said:


> Perhaps a 6 foot usb cable, as it's only one long cable instead of two RCA cables, unless they are spliced together. It really comes down what you're comfortable with and cost of cables! Sound wise, I believe there shouldn't be any issues but perhaps certain RCA cables can have problems picking EMF and other electrical issues. Whereas a decent usb cable should have the wiring for the power isolated really well, say like Wireworld cables!
> 
> If it was me, I'd run with the 6 foot USB cable and short RCA's.
> 
> Good luck.


See I thought USB too, cuz in general i always think digital signals are less prone to degradation etc. Then i started reading up about USB input issues on DACs etc. 

Any thoughts on RCA-XLR converters btw?


----------



## volly

TjPhysicist said:


> See I thought USB too, cuz in general i always think digital signals are less prone to degradation etc. Then i started reading up about USB input issues on DACs etc.
> 
> Any thoughts on RCA-XLR converters btw?


Does your Jot have the DAC card or other option? If you're just want a quick band aid solution, just go the 6 foot USB and you should have some RCA cables about to connect. Or look at going the optional extra and grab the MB or balanced DAC from Schiit, then you'll just have one long cable from the computer and you're good to go! I'd pick the clean simple setup anyday over a complex mess of cables, as I have and is an eye soar haha!


----------



## TjPhysicist

volly said:


> Does your Jot have the DAC card or other option? If you're just want a quick band aid solution, just go the 6 foot USB and you should have some RCA cables about to connect. Or look at going the optional extra and grab the MB or balanced DAC from Schiit, then you'll just have one long cable from the computer and you're good to go! I'd pick the clean simple setup anyday over a complex mess of cables, as I have and is an eye soar haha!


No Card. I'm gonna go external. Right now Modi3. Anyway, the reason I wanted to try RCA-XLR converters is so I can just use XLR cables and when I (eventually) get a Balanced DAC...use the same XLR cables. I already have a very long USB extension running from my computer, attached to the USB cable for the Modi (It worked fine, IIRC, when I was using it with my, now sold, Modi2)


----------



## volly

TjPhysicist said:


> No Card. I'm gonna go external. Right now Modi3. Anyway, the reason I wanted to try RCA-XLR converters is so I can just use XLR cables and when I (eventually) get a Balanced DAC...use the same XLR cables. I already have a very long USB extension running from my computer, attached to the USB cable for the Modi (It worked fine, IIRC, when I was using it with my, now sold, Modi2)


Ahhhh, yeah, makes sense. Have you come across any RCA to XLR adapters, maybe check music/Dj stores. I think they're pretty cheap. It may be too cumbersome out the back!


----------



## TjPhysicist

volly said:


> Ahhhh, yeah, makes sense. Have you come across any RCA to XLR adapters, maybe check music/Dj stores. I think they're pretty cheap. It may be too cumbersome out the back!


oh yea, there's a bunch on amazon. Cables themselves are more common than a short "converter" (i.e. male on both)..I just wanted to make sure there's no "grounding issue" if I do that. (the signal will basically end up being an unbalanced one right?)


----------



## volly

TjPhysicist said:


> oh yea, there's a bunch on amazon. Cables themselves are more common than a short "converter" (i.e. male on both)..I just wanted to make sure there's no "grounding issue" if I do that. (the signal will basically end up being an unbalanced one right?)


I reckon so, but I will say, I've paired the Jot to a lot of DAC's, some balanced some single-ended and as long as the DAC is good you'll won't lose any sleep, if you know what I mean?! The Jot is good clean amp and when paired with a decent DAC, gets out of the way!

Keep us posted on your setup mate!


----------



## workshirt (Jul 8, 2019)

TjPhysicist said:


> Random question: more out of curiosity: Can i Connect a non balanced DAC TO THIS using RCA-XLR cables? I.e. DAC->RCA OUT->RCA-XLR->XLR IN->Jot ?


It doesn't look like anyone actually answered this and the answer is yes. I know you said we would say why, but really why? The Jotunheim has line rca input. I would be more worried about adding a cheap amazon converter to convert RCA to XLR to my signal chain than running an unbalanced rca cable 6 feet


----------



## omegaorgun (Jul 8, 2019)

My first Schiit product, one word..impressed and seen here powering a Vibrolabs T50 balanced, only way to power these puppies.

I do like the AK4490, would love to see an ESS or R2R module as an option.


----------



## alpovs

TjPhysicist said:


> Random question: more out of curiosity: Can i Connect a non balanced DAC TO THIS using RCA-XLR cables? I.e. DAC->RCA OUT->RCA-XLR->XLR IN->Jot ? Yes, your first question will be "why?".


Yes, you can. And I do this. You can read the relevant short discussion about it here (and a few posts therein): https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mas...pressions-thread.873576/page-94#post-14897885


----------



## Sanada

Thanks for sharing


----------



## volly

FireLion said:


> My first Schiit product, one word..impressed and seen here powering a Vibrolabs T50 balanced, only way to power these puppies.
> 
> I do like the AK4490, would love to see an ESS or R2R module as an option.


Beautiful setup mate! That wood grain looks so nice!

I'm lucky to be running the Jot with one of those vintage beauties!
 
Theta DSPro Prime 2.
 
Sensual stuff!


----------



## omegaorgun (Jul 9, 2019)

volly said:


> Beautiful setup mate! That wood grain looks so nice!
> 
> I'm lucky to be running the Jot with one of those vintage beauties!
> 
> ...



You can buy the cups and tuning kit here. I am using a Dekoni Blue, Zebrawood and Brainwavz microsuede XL for pads.

http://www.vibrolabs.com

DAC looks good!


----------



## volly (Jul 9, 2019)

FireLion said:


> You can buy the cups and tuning kit here. I am using a Dekoni Blue, Zebrawood and Brainwavz microsuede XL for pads.
> 
> http://www.vibrolabs.com
> 
> DAC looks good!


Nice man, I remember Vibrolabs back in the day! I got some Grado cups off them a long time a go and were beautiful!

The Jot should power the T50's well! If you got the dosh and just want to get a one-n-done system, look at the MB card for the Jot!

Edit: Just had a look at the Vibro site, omgosh....I want to mod my T50 that I got from Massdrop a long time a go, wasn't happy with it and it just sits here! Thank you!  my wallet dou!


----------



## TjPhysicist

idk if this is the right place to ask this but: turns out my headphones XLR cable is too short. Can i get an XLR4 "extension" cable anywhere under $30? OR heck, even a XLR4 balanced to 2xXLR3 so I can use the "dime a dozen" XLR3 cables you can find anywhere.


----------



## Alcophone

TjPhysicist said:


> idk if this is the right place to ask this but: turns out my headphones XLR cable is too short. Can i get an XLR4 "extension" cable anywhere under $30? OR heck, even a XLR4 balanced to 2xXLR3 so I can use the "dime a dozen" XLR3 cables you can find anywhere.


Blue Jeans Cable made me a 15 ft one for $51, using Canare L-4E6S cable and Neutrik connectors with gold plated contacts. It probably wouldn't be much cheaper if it were shorter, though.


----------



## volly (Jul 9, 2019)

TjPhysicist said:


> idk if this is the right place to ask this but: turns out my headphones XLR cable is too short. Can i get an XLR4 "extension" cable anywhere under $30? OR heck, even a XLR4 balanced to 2xXLR3 so I can use the "dime a dozen" XLR3 cables you can find anywhere.


Something like this bro?
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4-Pin-D...hash=item2620580f84:m:mFc0lSHUDwYgo1iNjIw2U_w
Might have to stretch the budget just a little?! 

or 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4pin-XL...=122708741226a9e9d320c78b417da7b662df68af7e95
But from China.


----------



## TjPhysicist

volly said:


> Something like this bro?
> https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4-Pin-D...hash=item2620580f84:m:mFc0lSHUDwYgo1iNjIw2U_w
> Might have to stretch the budget just a little?!


The big difficulty with buying outside of CAnada or even US is i have to immediately add $50 for shipping and duty.


----------



## volly

TjPhysicist said:


> The big difficulty with buying outside of CAnada or even US is i have to immediately add $50 for shipping and duty.


That sucks! :/


----------



## StageOne

FireLion said:


> I do like the AK4490, would love to see an ESS or R2R module as an option.



Have you looked at the Multibit module?  It's basically R2R implemented on a chip.


----------



## Tuneslover

TjPhysicist said:


> The big difficulty with buying outside of CAnada or even US is i have to immediately add $50 for shipping and duty.



Have you tried Amazon.ca?


----------



## muths66 (Jul 10, 2019)

I new to audiophile.I like to know if i get the module with balanced dac i would have a dac/amp in it right?
What abt multibit dac is it also dac/amp
In future i get a smsl su8 with xlr cable to combine with this in the balanced dac module is it counted as separate dac and amp?
Lastly am i able to use usb b to type c connect to my mobile to play music/tidal?


----------



## TjPhysicist (Jul 10, 2019)

Tuneslover said:


> Have you tried Amazon.ca?


managed to get a local pro-audio company to custom make for a good price!  [AVSHOP.ca]. I was trying to avoid custom but this price is really good. Thank you.



muths66 said:


> I new to audiophile.I like to know if i get the module with balanced dac i would have a dac/amp in it right?
> What abt multibit dac is it also dac/amp
> In future i get a smsl su8 with xlr cable to combine with this in the balanced dac module is it counted as separate dac and amp?
> Lastly am i able to use usb b to type c connect to my mobile to play music/tidal?



1. Jotunheim with "balanced DAC add on/card" is indeed a DAC and Amp in one. Same applies for Multibit, which is obviously more expensive (I leave it to you to decide if it's worth it).
2. If you do decide to get the SMSL SU-8 later, you can just connect the SMSL to Jot's Amp section via XLR in, flip the switch in front to "XLR input" position and you are now using SMSL DAC with Jot Amp. If you are doing this with the Jotunheim that has a built-in DAC Card then this will circumvent the internal DAC completely.
          - Personally I plan to get SMSL later on as well, which is why I decided to not go with the internal add-on DAC Card, as it will essentially not be used once I have the SMSL DAC (at least in my case). So I'm getting the Modi (or similar cheaper external DAC) first so I can resell it when i have the money to upgrade to SMSL SU-8.
3. I don't see why not? But I've had really weird luck with Android phones and USB DAC's. I don't know if it will work for sure, I'm getting mine in a bit (hopefully) I can test it out and let you know, unless someone else does so first.


----------



## muths66

TjPhysicist said:


> managed to get a local pro-audio company to custom make for a good price!  [AVSHOP.ca]. I was trying to avoid custom but this price is really good. Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


thanks. At first thought get massdrop thx but look like need wait so long so abit give up.Second looking at fiio q5s with the thx module both add up is pretty expensive and i can get good desktop dac/amp so alittle give up.
Third one is smsl su8 stack with smsl sh8 pretty cheap but smsl sh8 spec didnt really shine on me.
So lastly looking at this jon.


----------



## Alcophone

muths66 said:


> Lastly am i able to use usb b to type c connect to my mobile to play music/tidal?





TjPhysicist said:


> I don't see why not? But I've had really weird luck with Android phones and USB DAC's. I don't know if it will work for sure, I'm getting mine in a bit (hopefully) I can test it out and let you know, unless someone else does so first.



USB Audio Player PRO generally has good support for USB DACs, and lots of tweaks to possibly make it work if the defaults aren't good enough. And you can access Tidal through it by providing your credentials.
So if the Tidal app itself doesn't work with a USB DAC, there's a chance it still might work by going through UAPP (a paid app).


----------



## Seijuro

I've got a Jotunheim multi-bit in pristine condition but I got spoiled by my THX 789. Probably going to sell it.


----------



## XERO1

Well, this looks interesting! 

The Jotunheim R!




 

_"I was pleasantly surprised to see Schiit Audio showing a prototype amp dedicated for the RAAL/Requisite SR1a ribbon headphones, which are normally powered by a speaker amplifier through an interface box. The Jotunheim R can drive the ultra-power-hungry, ultra-low-impedance SR1a headphones directly, thanks to a claimed 13 amps per channel of current. The Jotunheim R is slated to ship around the end of the year at a price of $999 including a multibit DAC and digital input -- quite reasonable considering the SR1a’s cost $3499."

https://www.soundstageglobal.com/in...s-earphones-amplifiers-and-accessories-part-2_


----------



## jfoxvol

XERO1 said:


> Well, this looks interesting!
> 
> The Jotunheim R!
> 
> ...



I was wondering what those were.  I went by but didn't have time to stop over on that side for very long.  Such a long hike.  I was helping out with an exhibitor so time playing was somewhat limited.  Excellent.


----------



## XERO1

The Jotunheim R appears to be designed to _*only*_ work with the RAAL/Requisite SR1a since it has the SR1a's impedance-matching circuitry built into it.

I doubt the Jot R will work properly with any other headphones.


----------



## oneway23

XERO1 said:


> The Jotunheim R appears to be designed to _*only*_ work with the RAAL/Requisite SR1a since it has the SR1a's impedance-matching circuitry built into it.
> 
> I doubt the Jot R will work properly with any other headphones.


----------



## oneway23 (Sep 10, 2019)

The original Jot came out two years ago now, right?

I hope that there will be some form of revision or slight refresh of the primary Jotunheim when this single-purpose R gets released.


----------



## Alcophone (Sep 10, 2019)

XERO1 said:


> The Jotunheim R appears to be designed to _*only*_ work with the RAAL/Requisite SR1a since it has the SR1a's impedance-matching circuitry built into it.
> 
> I doubt the Jot R will work properly with any other headphones.


Yeah, I was told it's definitely incapable of driving regular headphones.

Some more pictures:


 

Edit: removed redundant information. It's late...


----------



## showme99

Alcophone said:


> Yeah, I was told it's definitely incapable of driving regular headphones.
> 
> Some more pictures:
> 
> ...


Is it just me, or do those headphones kind of look like cheese graters?


----------



## Alcophone

showme99 said:


> Is it just me, or do those headphones kind of look like cheese graters?


Another job for this guy, then:


----------



## ToTo Man

Alcophone said:


> Yeah, I was told it's definitely incapable of driving regular headphones.
> 
> Some more pictures:
> 
> ...



How big is the market for headphone amps for RAALs?  Seems like a very niche product to me, or am I missing something?  I wonder why they're prepared to take the risk on this but not on a multibit ADC for example?


----------



## oneway23 (Sep 11, 2019)

ToTo Man said:


> How big is the market for headphone amps for RAALs?  Seems like a very niche product to me, or am I missing something?  I wonder why they're prepared to take the risk on this but not on a multibit ADC for example?



Yeah, I've never really been a fan of any headphone which requires a bespoke solution to enjoy.  I will wait and see what the official word is from the boys, but, my initial impression is that this product would exist in a pocket reality. 
They would need to have been sufficiently compensated for their efforts by RAAL, obviously, making this on behalf of the company, solely for its customers, as the market for this headphone is minimal.

Edit:  I would hope that any one of you fine folks  would allow me to borrow these headphones should I ever decide to make a homemade lasagna!  Gotta shred the cheese just so!


----------



## Alcophone

ToTo Man said:


> How big is the market for headphone amps for RAALs?  Seems like a very niche product to me, or am I missing something?  I wonder why they're prepared to take the risk on this but not on a multibit ADC for example?


I'll let Jason speak for himself:


Jason Stoddard said:


> Now, as to why we're chasing this niche product, here's the thing: I learned quite a bit about amp design in general, in the process of tweaking a product to deliver huge amperage into very low impedance loads. There's a long-standing joke in amp design about "driving a screwdriver." The Raal headphones are pretty much a screwdriver. And delving into all the tweaks necessary to increase power transfer efficiency means that we now know much more about this aspect of amp design--and will likely apply this knowledge to other products in the future.


The biggest risk is not being able to recover the R&D cost, and it sounds like the Jotunheim R won't be the only product benefiting from the lessons learned. So the remaining question is just whether there's enough demand for the Jotunheim R specifically to cover production costs. However well the SR1a may be selling, not everyone will want to use the Jotunheim R with it, especially people who already have a good alternative. But that's for Schiit to figure out.


----------



## audi0nick128 (Sep 12, 2019)

Hi there

I orderes a Jotunheim today and wanted to ask what input Voltage is best.
I will be using it with chord mojo so Line level over rca would be 3V or I go 4 klicks down to 1.9 V
Just want to make sure I am not feeding it too much voltage.
I am also thinking about getting a balanced Noir Hybrid cable for my open Aeons, since I understand that I am not loosing much going SE in and balanced HP out .
Also I wounder if it makes some difference to use a jitterbug on the USB input without using it.
Well I am exited and will report how I like it soon.

Cheers


----------



## audi0nick128

So Jotunheim arrived today and I am really happy with it 
I listened to my new setup for about five hours today and I can say that its definetly a keeper.
Compared to Mojo alone the sound is much more holographic. The soundstage of my Aeons opened up quite a bit. This more realistic presentation results in better resolution, as well. I hear more nuanced treble and the bass seems also better defined, plus it hits harder.
Vocals fit nicely into the presentation. For the first hour i felt like female Voices lost a bit smoothness and the sound seemed a bit harder in general but after a few hours I didnt feels this way anymore. Maybe cause it took me a little while to adjust to the new sound or Jotunheim sounds smoother when its warm.
Anyway I think Poly/Mojo and Jotunheim fit great together.

There was one shock moment. I tried to lift the performance up a noch by placing Jotunheim on three Triton Audio Neolev magnetic foots ....and Jotunheim didnt make a sound no more!!! No idea what the reason was but after I took away the Neolevs and waited a while all was good...Dont know if the magnetic fields were so strong they interfiered with Jotunheims internals. They have pretty strong magnets which can keep 8kg floating each.They are primarily made to decouple speakers , so I wont try this again 

Next up is an adapter to use a jitterbug in the unused USB slot....and a balanced FAW Noir Hybrid 

Cheers


----------



## mwb1

The Jot sounds good, and it also makes for a nice heated pillow.


----------



## volly

mwb1 said:


> The Jot sounds good, and it also makes for a nice heated pillow.


puuuurrrrrrrr-fect!


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## audi0nick128 (Sep 18, 2019)

Muahahah Triton Neolevs are back in the game. I bought a nice piece of bamboo wood and made  it into a base with the Neolevs.
Now Poly/Mojo and Jotunheim are floating in the air , while I am floating in music 
Seriously imho it lifts the performance of the sytem quite a bit...in almost all areas. Better Soundscape, better decay of notes ,better placement of instruments and better details.

Call me crazy but this made my day. But before you call me crazy take in account , that there are hifi bases for several thousand dollars....this diy solution is about 100 bucks. You can get the Neolevs at Thomann and I suspect that this is the best 100 bucks you can spent to elevate your system


----------



## CSkloma

Has anyone used the Sony mdr-z7m2 with this? or the Z1R


----------



## marsza11

Thanks for sharing.


----------



## CSkloma

I recently bought the Jotunheim with the balanced dac module, however, the entire amp section is dead. Only the dac works. 
Could someone within Europe tell me what power supply their jot shipped with? I have a feeling ive been sent the wrong one by schiit-europe


----------



## 565hunter

CSkloma said:


> I recently bought the Jotunheim with the balanced dac module, however, the entire amp section is dead. Only the dac works.
> Could someone within Europe tell me what power supply their jot shipped with? I have a feeling ive been sent the wrong one by schiit-europe



My Jotunheim has it's voltage rating indicated on the serial number tag on the back of the unit. It does not use a separate power supply just the appropriate power cord for your country's power outlet.


----------



## CSkloma

565hunter said:


> My Jotunheim has it's voltage rating indicated on the serial number tag on the back of the unit. It does not use a separate power supply just the appropriate power cord for your country's power outlet.


Ah yes, I meant the powercord. I now checked and what's written on the cord does not match with what's written on the jot itself


----------



## audi0nick128

Hey @CSkloma 
Does your Jot have the 230V sticker?
If not it is the wrong version...since you could plug in your cable has a schuko plug, wright? Are the two orange lights on? Did you double check you selected the correct input?


----------



## CSkloma

audi0nick128 said:


> Hey @CSkloma
> Does your Jot have the 230V sticker?
> If not it is the wrong version...since you could plug in your cable has a schuko plug, wright? Are the two orange lights on? Did you double check you selected the correct input?


Yeah, it has the 230V sticker, and yes. The two orange lights are also on, and i have tried all inputs, the only one that works is the dac one. I have tried using different cables as well but with the same result, also tried hooking it up to my laptop and it was the same thing.
In balanced i get barely audible sound if i turn it all the way up, and in SE its just hissing noise if i turn the volume up


----------



## audi0nick128

Hmm that sounds like your unit is not working. Probably best to get in contact with Schiit Europe then



CSkloma said:


> Yeah, it has the 230V sticker, and yes. The two orange lights are also on, and i have tried all inputs, the only one that works is the dac one. I have tried using different cables as well but with the same result, also tried hooking it up to my laptop and it was the same thing.
> In balanced i get barely audible sound if i turn it all the way up, and in SE its just hissing noise if i turn the volume up


----------



## Nick-s-f

First time posting in this thread, just got my Jotunheim today. 

Having owned Lyr 2 and Valhalla 2, I always found the volume notch a bit hard to see.

If anyone wants a make their volume indicator more visible, grab a hole-punch, electrical tape and a sewing needle:


----------



## Torq

XERO1 said:


> I doubt the Jot R will work properly with any other headphones.



There'd be no point.  It's a low-voltage, high-current design.  You can turn off the SR1a stepped-baffle-compensation (2nd switch), but it still isn't suitable for conventional headphones (that's why the XLR connector has its gender inverted).



 

I'm not sure why you'd *want* to try and use this with regular headphones.  That's what the normal Jotunheim is for ...


----------



## XERO1

Torq said:


> There'd be no point.  It's a low-voltage, high-current design.  You can turn off the SR1a stepped-baffle-compensation (2nd switch), but it still isn't suitable for conventional headphones (that's why the XLR connector has its gender inverted).
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure why you'd *want* to try and use this with regular headphones.  That's what the normal Jotunheim is for ...


You just *know* some weirdo is gonna do it anyway.


----------



## Anouk

Hi everyone,
In january I will be upgrading my home rig to dcaudio ac2 headphones with the bifrost 2 dac running to my audioengine a5+ speakers and an amp for the dan clark audio headphones.
My first choice is the jotunheim so I can run the headphones balanced and have a wholly balanced rig. I can then connect my powered speakers to the rca output on the dac for a clean setup.
Out of curiosity I am wondering if anyone has compared the jot to either the lyr 3 and/or the asgard 3. While I think the jot is the best solution for me I am still curious about how it stacks up in sound quality to some other schiit amps.
Thanks in advance for any info,
Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## Alexcao87

Which is Schitt Dac/Amp good for Desk setup to drive Hd800s with iDevice as source ?


----------



## bequietjk

@Jason Stoddard Is there a Jotunheim 2 in the works?


----------



## tcellguy

The more amps I hear the more I gain appreciation for the tonality of the Jotunheim. 

I'd like to see a Jot with the Continuity output stage to improve the sound stage, but I think I read somewhere it couldn't fit into a balanced configuration due to heat dissipation or something.


----------



## Dana Reed

Was having some issues with buzzing on my Jot, and I sent it in for repair.  They replaced the RCA jacks under warranty and now all is well.  No buzz even with my Shure SE 846, and now with the new HE6SE I got on a deal from Adorama, the Jot and Gungnir Multibit make them sing.  I even compared the Jot to a Vidar with these phones and I don’t find it lacking in power at all.


----------



## mmmadog

Just got a used Jot with balanced dac and for the price this is a really good deal but I guess I'm not a fan of the Schiit house sound. I'm a firm believer of buy American but like the Audio gd sound much better. I find this Jot not much better than my basic Modi and Magni stack. Even when connected to my Dac-19 I don't find myself wanting to listen to music unlike my previous Audio Gd C2 and Dac-19. Of course this is just my preference.


----------



## mmmadog

I did have a Valhalla 1 with hd650 that I liked and wish I still had other than dealing with tubes. Also I'm using Beyerdynamic T1.2 balanced right now.


----------



## Atgm1

guys, what is the power of this amplifier for speakers?


----------



## rkw

mmmadog said:


> Just got a used Jot with balanced dac and for the price this is a really good deal but I guess I'm not a fan of the Schiit house sound.





mmmadog said:


> I did have a Valhalla 1 with hd650 that I liked and wish I still had other than dealing with tubes.


The Jot has a clear, neutral sound that some find to be clinical. You probably prefer warmer sounding amplifiers.



Atgm1 said:


> guys, what is the power of this amplifier for speakers?


Jotunheim is for headphones and has insufficient power to drive speakers. You can use it as a preamp for a separate power amplifier. Look at the product info on the Schiit website: https://schiit.com/products/jotunheim


----------



## mmmadog

Not so much about being warmer which I do like it's about being more open and airy sounding. The Jot  is very bright like some have posted and doesn't have the best midrange to me or bass. Maybe the Jot is best with a better Schiit dac. The Audio GD C2 I had was not the best until I got the Dac-19. Things really opened up. This is a great all in one for most people I just like a more lively sound while listening to music.


----------



## alpovs

The Jot is not really bright. It's neutral. Thus the DAC is very important, the Jot simply amplifies what's fed from the DAC. It's very good with Schiit's multibit DACs. The DAC-19 is also multibit. Have you tried it with the Jot?


----------



## ToTo Man (Jan 5, 2020)

alpovs said:


> The Jot is not really bright. It's neutral. Thus the DAC is very important, the Jot simply amplifies what's fed from the DAC. It's very good with Schiit's multibit DACs. The DAC-19 is also multibit. Have you tried it with the Jot?


If Jot is considered to have a neutral tuning, what h/p amps are considered to be brighter than Jot?  I don't have experience with lots of h/p amps but Jot's probably the brightest amp I've tried, though Mjolnir 2 can come a very close second with certain tubes.  The Chord Hugo TT 2 sounds a touch warmer to my ears but is still very fast and clean and provides excellent resolution.  The Arcam irDAC-II sounds very evenly balanced but lacks the resolution of the TT 2.  The Audio-Technica AT-HA5050 has a hint of sweetness in the upper mids and lower treble that makes for a slightly more relaxed listening experience.

The differences between these h/p amps aren't massive, certainly not anywhere near the tonal differences you hear in different headphones, and none of the above mentioned amps change the fundamental characteristics of any of the headphones I've paired with them.  e.g. I could still reliably identify each of my headphones in a blind test regardless of which amp I pair it with.  I do however notice that 'treble-happy' headphones like the DT880, HD800S and ATH-ADX5000 sound more tolerable / less etched through amps like the irDAC-II, TT 2 and AT-HA5050H than through the Jot and Mjolnir 2.

I'd like to find reliable examples of a 'neutral', 'warm' and 'bright' h/p amps.  Different listeners have different sliding scales, so one person's 'neutral' might be 'bright' to someone else, which makes it very difficult when trying to select an amplifier based on other listeners' opinion of how its tuned.

I could be wrong, but it seems that listeners use the terms 'neutral' and 'warm' a lot more than they use 'bright'.  Does this mean there aren't as many 'bright' h/p amps on the market, or are some people mistaking 'bright' as 'neutral'?


----------



## sup27606 (Jan 5, 2020)

I have tried Jot from several low-midrange DACs (<$100 HifimeDIY 9018, ~$250 Modi multibit, Chord Mojo, built-in DAC of ponoplayer), Jot doesn’t appear to me as more bright than my other amps, even through a HD800. To me, it appears to be transparent, warmer through Mojo, a bit sparkly through the 9018 DAC. Likewise, it have also tested it through a variety of headphones, Sen 6XX, 800, Audeze Sine, EL-8, iems like Andromeda. Each time, Jot revealed more of their personal characteristics, mid bass of 6xx, sparkling highs and resonance peak in hd800 (it doesn’t sound overly bright through the 800, quite acceptable). The jot never felt like it synnergizes any better with warmer or brighter headphones. Such characteristics, I would say are pointing towards a neutral character.

The jot also has excellent bass texture and extension, compared to my other tube amp, La Figaro 339. It is also the only amp among my other amps desktop and portable, that runs the andromeda’s without hiss or congested soundstage or lean bass, without needing to use dongles like iematch.

The jot doesn’t improve the soundstage significantly. If soundstage or imaging cues were present in the signal, it would deliver them, but not with significant improvements, like some other higher end amps are known to achieve, but that’s a different aspect from what we are discussing here.

Before buying Jot from another headfier, I always read that Schiit amps are ‘steely’ and brighter, but when I heard Jot, it did not match those impressions. I think, Schiit designed it quite well, and managed to keep the price low.

Now, here are my personal hunches. Keeping it on 24/7, as many users do, may make it smoother and slightly warm, but I haven’t verified it myself. The other thing, when I compare the SE vs the balanced input with headphones such as 6xx and HD800, the balanced seem to have slightly fuller bass, at similar volume. The fuller bass may mitigate the highs, giving it a less bright character, but I am not sure of it. I use Jot mostly through the balanced output, except when using andromeda’s.


----------



## alpovs

sup27606 said:


> I have tried Jot from several low-midrange DACs (<$100 HifimeDIY 9018, ~$250 Modi multibit, Chord Mojo, built-in DAC of ponoplayer), Jot doesn’t appear to me as more bright than my other amps, even through a HD800. To me, it appears to be transparent, warmer through Mojo, a bit sparkly through the 9018 DAC. Likewise, it have also tested it through a variety of headphones, Sen 6XX, 800, Audeze Sine, EL-8, iems like Andromeda. Each time, Jot revealed more of their personal characteristics, mid bass of 6xx, sparkling highs and resonance peak in hd800 (it doesn’t sound overly bright through the 800, quite acceptable). The jot never felt like it synnergizes any better with warmer or brighter headphones. Such characteristics, I would say are pointing towards a neutral character.
> 
> The jot also has excellent bass texture and extension, compared to my other tube amp, La Figaro 339. It is also the only amp among my other amps desktop and portable, that runs the andromeda’s without hiss or congested soundstage or lean bass, without needing to use dongles like iematch.
> 
> ...


I could not agree more with your description.


----------



## alpovs

ToTo Man said:


> If Jot is considered to have a neutral tuning, what h/p amps are considered to be brighter than Jot?


I don't know about that. But the Jot sounds very similar to the THX AAA 789, and there is a measurement of the 789 on one website that states "Frequency response is essentially ruler flat to 40 kHz". These amps essentially amplify what they get from the DAC. And I find most delta-sigma DACs bright unlike multibit DACs.


----------



## G0rt

alpovs said:


> I could not agree more with your description.



I really enjoy my (2019) Jot with HD660S and my Beyers, from Gungnir MB. I've heard that the most recent Jotunheim is tuned warmer than OG, but I have no  direct experience.


----------



## mmmadog

I wonder if there are certain frequencies that some people are more sensitive than others because with the Jot and the Dac-19 I find my self lowering the volume on most music because the highs are killing me. I even swapped rca cables from Kimber Kable to some cheapies and it seemed to tame it some. I have found with the DT880 600 ohm and the T1 they like to be turned up a bit to sound there best and I'm not able to get there. Again for your average set of headphones the Jot for the price is a good deal.


----------



## aisalen (Jan 6, 2020)

mmmadog said:


> I wonder if there are certain frequencies that some people are more sensitive than others because with the Jot and the Dac-19 I find my self lowering the volume on most music because the highs are killing me. I even swapped rca cables from Kimber Kable to some cheapies and it seemed to tame it some. I have found with the DT880 600 ohm and the T1 they like to be turned up a bit to sound there best and I'm not able to get there. Again for your average set of headphones the Jot for the price is a good deal.


Maybe the culprit here is the beyer that you are using? I read that these headphones has too much highs for those that are sensitive. I have home amiron coming that is warm in conparison according to many to be paired with my jot. I agree that jot is neautral and accurate compare to my dv336. I like both depending on the mood.


----------



## Tuneslover

I have the original Jot and while I agree that there is some high frequency emphasis with this amp I wouldn't say that it is a deal breaker by any stretch of the imagination.  In fact I find that it brings out details in the music brilliantly.  I find that the bass with the Jot is quite good and that my HE500 sounds fantastic with this amp.  On the other hand my HD650 is a bit thin sounding when it comes to the bass so I replaced the stock Sennheiser pads with the warmer sounding Dekoni pads and now I find my HD650 sounds very nice with the Jot.

Another consideration to soften the high frequencies of the Jot is incorporating a Loki, which I did.  The relatively inexpensive Loki does a very nice job of customizing the sound of my headphones.  The Loki adds additional flexibility enabling me to more precisely dial in the sound I am seeking.


----------



## KyungMin

I just picked one of these up and sounds fairly neutral to me (delta dac option) I’m running balanced for my hd800S, hd6xx and t1.2. I have Valhalla 2 connected to it since the K812 can only used in SE mode. Really enjoying this dac/amp. Other amps/dacs I have in my collection are e17/k5 combo, audio-gd Sparrow, audioquest cobalt, darkvoice 336se, musical paradise mp-301 mkii and fiio q1 mkii. I’d say the warmest amp I have is the sparrow by far.. don’t have the time to run my other headphones yet but I’ll eventually get to them. Really happy with the jot and Val.


----------



## ToTo Man

G0rt said:


> I really enjoy my (2019) Jot with HD660S and my Beyers, from Gungnir MB. I've heard that the most recent Jotunheim is tuned warmer than OG, but I have no  direct experience.



What does "OG" stand for, original model?


----------



## G0rt

ToTo Man said:


> What does "OG" stand for, original model?



Original Generation, or just OriGinal.


----------



## SeEnCreaTive (Jan 10, 2020)

Just bought a Jot from another headfier. It has the balanced card in it, he says he got it in 2016.

Compared to my Magni 2u and Modi 2u, it wipes the floor, I didn't think I would notice a difference but I really really do

It might be the more power, but we are talking about Ether CX, not terrible to drive

It sounds the same, but just so much more alive. I don't think it sounds bright at all. I admit I'm using the 2.notch felts, but with the Jot I'm thinking about moving down to the 1-notch whites.

Sound stage is a touch better, imaging is more accurate. I know some people over at audioscience complain about the ungrounded chassis causing a 60hrz (or your regional ac frequency) interference. I don't hear it. High gain, max volume the amp is dead silent with the Ethers


----------



## KyungMin

Old gen?


----------



## Dana Reed

ToTo Man said:


> What does "OG" stand for, original model?


Original Gangster, now often subbed in as abbreviation for original.
OGT, where I first heard it.  “Hooker with a penis”, “Ænima”, Tool.  But it was around in the 80’s.  Ice-T for instance


----------



## redrich2000

Has anyone put longer feet on the Jot to allow more airflow underneath?


----------



## mmmadog (Jan 25, 2020)

Well after some critical listening as some people say and doing some reading. The Audio Gd C2 from what I have read rolls the highs a bit and that supposedly boosts the midrange some which I liked. I have gotten to where I'm liking the Jot. I'm only using with the basic Modi 2 thru usb and Kimber Kable silver streaks and must say for the roughly 400 bucks I have into it listening to the T1.2 it has gotten very addictive. Good solid bass and synergy with the Beyers. Still not as open as the AG setup but not nearly the same money. The Ag Dac-19 I have made a huge difference to the latest C2 but not so much with other amps such as the Gustard H10 and the Jot. I had a Saga SS that I used with the AG stack to get that monster setup off my desk and it added even more openess. The Jot is roughly half the size of my Dac-19.


----------



## Alcophone

redrich2000 said:


> Has anyone put longer feet on the Jot to allow more airflow underneath?


Yes, these:


----------



## SilverEars (Jan 31, 2020)

Did Jotunheim get a revision?  I recently won a Jotunheim at meet, and tried HD800S with it, and it was smooth compared to what I expected.  This goes against what people told me about Jotunheim being on the clinical side.

There's some speculation that there was changes that was made?


----------



## Byronb

SilverEars said:


> Did Jotunheim get a revision?  I recently won a Jotunheim at meet, and tried HD800S with it, and it was smooth compared to what I expected.  This goes against what people told me about Jotunheim being on the clinical side.
> 
> There's some speculation that there was changes that was made?


I have had my Jotunheim since it was announced and I have never known it to be "clinical". As always your own ears are going to be your best adviser.


----------



## rkw

SilverEars said:


> tried HD800S with it, and it was smooth compared to what I expected.


Compared to what other amps?


----------



## SilverEars

rkw said:


> Compared to what other amps?


I didn't mean comparing to other amps, but I meant compared to what has been said about Jotunheim.  The impressions of the earlier ones to be clinical, but I've also heard later ones changed to sound warmer.


----------



## rkw

SilverEars said:


> I didn't mean comparing to other amps, but I meant compared to what has been said about Jotunheim.


I was interested in the context. You listened to the Jotunheim and perceived it as smooth and not clinical. Which amp do you normally use?


----------



## Brooklyn70 (Jan 31, 2020)

Ive had my JOT 2+ years and never listen to any of the ppl who have said that it’s compressed or any of the any other it all depends of what your feeding it.   At this stage of the game I’m useing the cayin idac6 via my Mac tower and oppo transport.  with either c flow mod house Argon mk2 and ZMF Aeolus cans


----------



## tcellguy

I've read about a "silent revision" somewhere before, but have no proof that early versions of the Jotunheim had sharper treble than recent versions. I've had mine since Fall 2017 I think. 

I've auditioned and owned several amps in the Jotunheim price range and for my tastes the Jot is the best overall in terms of solid state amps. For me it came down to excellent bass control, good dynamics (despite what some reviewers have stated), and a warm tonality that fits with my preferred sound signature. The only areas that I think could be improved would be resolution/clarity in the mids and increase in sound stage. The pairing with the Bifrost 2 is really impressive and I feel that DAC takes the Jot to the next level in terms of detail retrieval (big step up over Modi 3 and Modi Multibit in terms of clarity).

For comparison, I found the THX 789 to have a bit more clarity in the mids and treble, and with a bit more treble extension. It was overall too bright for me. I suppose some might call this more neutral than the Jot.  Overall, the THX sounded very compressed and lacked heft in the bass. The transients were faster vs. the Jot, but the impact was missing.

The Gillmore Lite Mk2 was great and had very fast transients and strong bass response. However I feel like the Jot had slightly crisper treble and over more power that brought out the best in my planar headphones.


----------



## SilverEars (Jan 31, 2020)

rkw said:


> I was interested in the context. You listened to the Jotunheim and perceived it as smooth and not clinical. Which amp do you normally use?


I've heard many amps, and that is my context.  A solid-state I currently use is Bryston BHA-1.  Which is transparent, but not clinical.  I didn't like THX 789 either.  It does sound bright and compressed.


----------



## SilverEars (Jan 31, 2020)

tcellguy said:


> I've read about a "silent revision" somewhere before, but have no proof that early versions of the Jotunheim had sharper treble than recent versions. I've had mine since Fall 2017 I think.
> 
> I've auditioned and owned several amps in the Jotunheim price range and for my tastes the Jot is the best overall in terms of solid state amps. For me it came down to excellent bass control, good dynamics (despite what some reviewers have stated), and a warm tonality that fits with my preferred sound signature. The only areas that I think could be improved would be resolution/clarity in the mids and increase in sound stage. The pairing with the Bifrost 2 is really impressive and I feel that DAC takes the Jot to the next level in terms of detail retrieval (big step up over Modi 3 and Modi Multibit in terms of clarity).
> 
> ...


I agree with your impression of Jot, and I find Schiit to have a sort of house sound that is expressed like how you discribe.  I wasn't a fan of Rag with dynamic drivers.  I think the imaging could be improved woth jot, including separation could be better improved.  Cayin iHA-6 is an improvement in such areas, but with greater treble energy, I find Jot smoother and easer listen with HD800S.  iHA-6 can get a bit bright with HD800S as well.


----------



## adydula

Recently I have purchased a Monoprice THX AAA 887 amp for one to see what these stellar numbers were all about and secondly to use in a balanced mode with my new Bifrost 2 MD dac.

I had a B1 since 2017 and it was my go to standard for years, and now its sold and has a good home and the B2 is my new standard, and its an excellent dac. Tested against $1000 + dacs and IMO its the best.

So I was surprised to get a note from Jason asking me if I would like to try a Jotenheim to see how it would fare against it. Well I could not refuse! Its kind of like a Hersey vs Magni 3....one OP based, one discrete based, one with better numbers, one with lesser numbers, but stellar still! So its kind of like that....the discrete powerful Jot vs the THX AAA 887 op amp....

I have only had the Jot in house for a few days and already my opinions are formed. The Jot is a better built amplifier. Its 6 pounds and is built like a tank, and is made or assembled in the USA, not China. IMO that means something. 

When it first came out it did not intrest me, because being a 2 ch purist person I want seperate devices that do only one thing and the best function....so an all in one box that could be nice to have logisticallty, was too much of a compromise.....or at least I thought so.

So here we are a few years out and I am finally listening with a Jot! So far the expereince has been a positive one. The amp has more than enough power to drive any conventional headphone, can be used over a wide variety of impedances and is indeed the one box that with the dac upgrade card that could satisfy many people....

I am not going to go over how the two sound in detail, except both play well, but the Jot has just a slight hint of body and soul that that the more sterile AAA amps dont have...they are crisp, clean but at times a bit dry...

Highly recommend this amp as a great base to have thousands of hours  of great listening experience....no worries if the amp will drive my headphones very well...

Thanks to Schitt for the opportunity to try a Jot!!!

Alex


----------



## Smoothstereo

adydula said:


> Recently I have purchased a Monoprice THX AAA 887 amp for one to see what these stellar numbers were all about and secondly to use in a balanced mode with my new Bifrost 2 MD dac.
> 
> I had a B1 since 2017 and it was my go to standard for years, and now its sold and has a good home and the B2 is my new standard, and its an excellent dac. Tested against $1000 + dacs and IMO its the best.
> 
> ...


Hi Alex and all,

First time posting in Headfi, but have been an avid reader on these forums for over two years. If you don't mind Alex in comparing the Jotunheim to Monoprice THX 887 in more detail, I would be curious. Or if by chance have you also compared the THX 887 to the Mjolnir2? I am looking for a Balanced headphone amp for my next purchase. Current gear is AQ Nighthawk with Marantz HD-DAC1. 

Thanks!


----------



## adydula

smoothstereo,

Both are fine amps, the Jot seems to have more power and headroom for sure. 

The main difference IMO is actual output sound your hearing when you listen, both amps have really good specs, well beyond
having issues that you honestly can detect with human ears.

But what I perceive is the presentation with the THX AAA amps vs the Jotenheim, is the Jot is just a little more muscial or "soft" in a good way. Depending on the song or track and how its recorded this is a good thing IMO.

The overall versatility of the Jot to me is better as well. Its better built and has a longer warranty as well.

Alex


----------



## Smoothstereo

adydula said:


> smoothstereo,
> 
> Both are fine amps, the Jot seems to have more power and headroom for sure.
> 
> ...


Thanks for taking the time to reply. Is the Jot able to unravel all the micro details like the THX 887 can? When doing research on the Jot when it first came out, I read that the treble can be too edgy/uncomfortable/bright for some, but as of late I read the Jot is not so and some say its a bit warm. How does Jot treble compare to the 887 which is said to be fatigue free?

Thanks.


----------



## 565hunter

Smoothstereo said:


> Thanks for taking the time to reply. Is the Jot able to unravel all the micro details like the THX 887 can? When doing research on the Jot when it first came out, I read that the treble can be too edgy/uncomfortable/bright for some, but as of late I read the Jot is not so and some say its a bit warm. How does Jot treble compare to the 887 which is said to be fatigue free?
> 
> Thanks.


Buy the Jotunheim. You'll have 15 days to evaluate the sound with your ears and your equipment. If you don't like it, pay the 5% restock fee ($20.00) and send it back to Schiit. I think the Jotunheim is a fine amplifier with features and versatility that will keep it on my desktop for many more years.


----------



## adydula

The treble on the Jot is not fatiguing at all to me. If your using a good dac liie a Bifrost 2 the Jot will unravel anything that is in the recording good or bad.

That said your source material will be the limiting factor for the overall quality of what you hear.....and the quality of your headphones..


----------



## Smoothstereo

Thanks guys for your feedback.


----------



## tcellguy

Smoothstereo said:


> Thanks for taking the time to reply. Is the Jot able to unravel all the micro details like the THX 887 can? When doing research on the Jot when it first came out, I read that the treble can be too edgy/uncomfortable/bright for some, but as of late I read the Jot is not so and some say its a bit warm. How does Jot treble compare to the 887 which is said to be fatigue free?
> 
> Thanks.



I've only heard the THX 789, but I've read it is similar to the 887. I feel like the THX had the upper hand on absolute clarity and microdetail "plankton" recovery. However, to me the treble was a bit fatiguing. That said I can't fully rule out that I had a ground loop in my system as I had a similar issue with the Modi Multibit initially. 

I ended up selling the THX 789 and sticking with my Jotunheim as I've found I appear to value tonality, especially handling of treble, over absolute detail retrieval. The bass on the Jotunheim sounded more substantial (e.g. kick drums had more impact and a more natural decay) and the treble was a bit softer, but again seemed more natural to me.

I can see why a lot of people like the THX amps, however. The THX 789 was very neutral with great treble extension and very fast transients. It was just a bit too fatiguing for me.


----------



## adydula

I like both and use both.....the amp I have is the Monoprice 887, it has some minor component differences which allows it to eek out the 789 ever s slighlty!

A.


----------



## adydula

Been spending that past few days just listening with HD600's, High Gain, Balanced inputs from Bifrost 2....what a nice combination...almost as good as with my Vahalla 2, which IMO is one of the greatest pairings for the HD600's....

Nice solid punchy sound....wonderful to listen to some old Joni Mitchell tunes!! Fury Sings the Blues!! Heijra CD....Awesome!

Alex


----------



## aisalen

This with smsl su-8 pairs very well with Beyer Amiron Home more than my HD600 for me. An end gamer for me.


----------



## amele

Hi everyone , I want to know how it works  audeze LCD-X with Schiit Jotunheim is it good combination.


----------



## Dana Reed

amele said:


> Hi everyone , I want to know how it works  audeze LCD-X with Schiit Jotunheim is it good combination.


Don't have the LCD-X, but the Jot works great with the LCD-2.  Once I started using the Roon filters to correct the FR of the LCD-2, I find them to be among my favorites.


----------



## amele

which DAC to chose Multibit DAC or AK4490 DAC, any
recommendation.


----------



## adydula

They both are great, but my preference is the Multibit dac....

Alex


----------



## alpovs

amele said:


> which DAC to chose Multibit DAC or AK4490 DAC, any
> recommendation.


To me it's multibit for sure.


----------



## aisalen

Didn't hear yet the Multibit DAC but I have internal AK4490 DAC with my Jot that I didn't used, it is crap compared to my smsl su-8 even with my previous smsl m8.


----------



## amele

what's the difference between Jotunheim R and Jotunheim is 
it makes sense to pay 400 us more


----------



## showme99 (Feb 18, 2020)

amele said:


> what's the difference between Jotunheim R and Jotunheim is
> it makes sense to pay 400 us more


https://www.schiit.com/products/jotunheim-r

From Schiit's Jotunheim-R webpage:
"This amp was designed for one kind of headphones only: the Raal/Requisite ribbon headphones."


----------



## amele

what does that mean ''Raal/Requisite ribbon headphones"


----------



## amele

ok I google it and it is new technology


----------



## adydula

Go here: https://www.schiit.com/products/jotunheim-r

Read and look at the pictures you will see the ONLY headphones this amp was made SPECIFICALLY for...

Alex


----------



## rhull1973

I’ve owned several Schiit products and never had any issues. Recently my Jotunheim developed an Issue where output would be lost from one channel. Schiit repaired it in less than a week and I’m happy to have it back to drive my new Aeon Flow Closed’s.  Very pleased with Schiit’s warranty service!


----------



## Benno1988

Anyone with a Jot and one of the THX amps to compare?

I have a Jot sitting next to a SMSL SP200. Finding the THX overall clearer and punchier, Jot smoother, bit fuller low maybe.


----------



## ToTo Man

SilverEars said:


> Did Jotunheim get a revision?...There's some speculation that there was changes that was made?





tcellguy said:


> I've read about a "silent revision" somewhere before, but have no proof that early versions of the Jotunheim had sharper treble than recent versions. I've had mine since Fall 2017 I think.



Has it ever been confirmed if Jotunheim did receive a silent revision?  I bought my current one from Schiit UK (Electromod) in July 2018 so am curious which version I have.


----------



## Tuneslover

Benno1988 said:


> Anyone with a Jot and one of the THX amps to compare?
> 
> I have a Jot sitting next to a SMSL SP200. Finding the THX overall clearer and punchier, Jot smoother, bit fuller low maybe.



I find my Jot to be somewhat bright and clinical sounding and have wondered how it compares to the THX amps.  I love hearing the Jot's detail and it can punch down low too but it does fatigue me sooner than my other warmer sounding amps.  I am intrigued by what I have been hearing about the THX amps but haven't decided whether to pull the trigger or not though.  The Massdrop Panda + THX AAA headphone sounds interesting though.


----------



## aisalen

I seldom use my Jots before and favor using my DV336 with my HD600. But since I got my Beyer Amiron, I seldom used my DV. It seems that the pairing of Jots and Amiron to my ear is match made in heaven.


----------



## HirkEukvic

So what's the difference between buying a Jotunheim with the preinstalled multibit card or using the True Multibit? I'm considering upgrading my 4490 Jotunheim if the True Multibit card is worth the difference.


----------



## rkw

HirkEukvic said:


> what's the difference between buying a Jotunheim with the preinstalled multibit card or using the True Multibit?


The preinstalled card and the upgrade card are the same. Schiit trademarked the name "True Multibit" relatively recently and began applying the name to all of their multibit products, but they haven't completely updated their website to change every reference of multibit to True Multibit.


----------



## HirkEukvic

Ah. And is it worth upgrading?


----------



## adydula

From Schiits website under the Jotenhiem:

*Multibit DAC.* Choose the optional Multibit DAC Module to get Schiit’s unique digital filter and multibit DAC architecture, as used in Modi Multibit, for $200.

Tehnically according to this they should be the same thing as the external Modi. Some folks debate this.

IMO, if you want a neat less cluttered setup the internal MB card would be nice, but if you have or want an external low cost MB dac the Modi is a viable option and can be moved from system to systeme etc...The TrueMultibit is a Schiit trademark to help identify what Schitts implementation of MB is...this is explaines elsewhere if you look on this site in Jason Stoddards numerous chapters on their products etc.

For the person asking about Jot vs THX, I have both the Jot and the Monoprice THX AAA 887. Both are excellent, but the Jot is the one I prefer over the THX AAA amp. It is more musical to me, has more weight and body...just a nicer mellow sound presentation, still all the detail etc....the THX AAA is brutally honest but with some recordings it can be really harsh on the ears...especially if you have "bright" headphones...






Alex


----------



## davesa

I do have both a Jot ( Multibit ) and THX AAA 887 - I have not done a side by side but I can tell you that I like both. I use the Jot at work and the idea of a combo unit for my desk is great. I recently bought the THX AAA 887 for home. It replaced my Oppo HA-1 - in an eval of the two I decided to let the Oppo go and keep the THX 887. 

At home I pair the THX 887 with my Yggdrasil, and use both the LCD-XC and the Dan Clark Ether 2.
At work I pair the Jot with the Monoprice M1060's

As others have pointed out I like the construction of the Jot better - it is heavier, and the switches / knob is nicer. The other thing to point out is the Jot has a balanced pass thru as well.

It is nice that both have balanced outputs and that is what I use most.


----------



## adydula

Agree, both are nice and yes the Jot is made better for sure...


----------



## rkw

HirkEukvic said:


> Ah. And is it worth upgrading?


If you didn't already have a DAC card, it would have been a question of whether to spend an extra $100 to choose the multibit version. But since you already have the 4490, the question becomes whether it is worth spending $250 to replace it, and the value proposition is more tenuous. I haven't compared the two and can't advise, but hopefully others can chime in.


----------



## alpovs

Regarding the Jot and THX AAA amps comparison going on here, I have an observation unrelated to sound. The Jot warms up quite noticeably when working, the THX AAA from the Drop stays cool like it's off.


----------



## adydula (Mar 7, 2020)

One thing in these two to note are the THX has an external power source so the transformer is outside and away from the unit...and its running in Class AB, so less heat.

The Jot has an internal transformer and the heat from it is iside the case...and the case acts as a heatsink....I have mine stacked up and the heat that the Jot exhibits is well within its design and should not be an issue...

Alex


----------



## alpovs

Yes, but the power supply of the THX never heats up either.


----------



## adydula (Mar 16, 2020)

Understand that, it may have something to do with even though both amps are Class AB , the power supply inside the Jot is a linear supply, and I dont honestly know what the THX walwort is? Switching or not?

Also Schitt states the Jot can be left on all the time...and its power draw is 25 watts so that heat has to go somewhere, I dont see a power draw spec on the THX amp? The internal transormer in the Jot is a 48 VA. with lots of regulation, it may be the power supply in the Jot is overbuilt and thus the higher heat dissapation?

And then its a lot less than the previous Class A amps from Schitt and Schitt give you a 5 year warranty on this amp...so other that wanting to know technically I would not consider this an issue or Schitt would be crazy to offer such a good warranty, even the best THX AAA is only 3yrs.

Alex


----------



## teamrushpntball

Any suggestions on getting a new Asgard 3 or picking up a used Jotunheim to power some LCD-3's?  Picked them up at a great price but I know they will not go with my Bottlehead Cracka-two-a unfortunately.


----------



## adydula

The LCD3's are 110 ohms and most of the BH amps are 120 ohms and above in their design. SO your right on that boarderline with the LCD3's IMO.

The Jot looks like it has more power than the ASGARD 3 especially with the balanced outputs...

The ASGARD is newer and has some new design improvements. the Continuity AB circuit design, and should have enough power to drive 300 or 600 ohm cans so it should be able to handle your 110 LCDs.

Personally I like both but for $199 and a 5 year warranty the ASGARD is a steal!! IF you need or want a balanced option then the JOT is the answer....

Right now ASGARD 3's are $189 on the B-Stock page and the JOT is $349...some great deals!

Alex


----------



## teamrushpntball

adydula said:


> The LCD3's are 110 ohms and most of the BH amps are 120 ohms and above in their design. SO your right on that boarderline with the LCD3's IMO.
> 
> The Jot looks like it has more power than the ASGARD 3 especially with the balanced outputs...
> 
> ...



Thanks for the input, I'll be keeping the Bottlehead to go with my HD800's in any case.  I know the Jotunheim is generally regarded as bright and well controlled so I'm kinda leaning that way for the LCD-3's.  Balanced being an option kinda sways me that way too even if the technology is a bit older in the Jotunheim.


----------



## adydula

Just because the Jot has been around more than the new Asgard, doesnt make it any less better than it was when introduced!

I love mine and use the balanced to the Bifrost 2 as my daily driver, and its works with everything!

I have 12 headphone amps and rotate amongst them and the Jot and B2 are used everyday. Very nice pairing..and you dont have to worry about
what headphone will or will not work with the amp..

Alex


----------



## KenMan85

Is the jot multibit dac sufficient for the Arya (hifiman)


----------



## adydula

KenMan85 said:


> Is the jot multibit dac sufficient for the Arya (hifiman)





KenMan85 said:


> Is the jot multibit dac sufficient for the Arya (hifiman)


Its always nice to have more expensive gear but the internal mb dac will work just fine...IMO


----------



## Chronnoisseur

Thinking of pulling the trigger on a Jot and was wondering if I would even be able to tell the difference between the internal multibit dac, the AK one or an external multibit/ak dac.  I'm not a professional audio engineer or anything so I dont really have trained ears.  I'm just trying to get the best bass from the Jot.  Using it for my HD650 mostly but also for my HE6se until I can find a good speaker amp.  Can I use the Jot as a dac/preamp when I do find a suitable amp for the HE6se? 

Also, which cables are best to use and where can I find them?  Links appreciated.  Are the PYST cables from Schiit good quality or can I find better ones for the same price?


----------



## KenMan85

Amazon basic cables for rca are best I've seen for pride.. 

The multibit is the same as modi multibit. 

Multibit sounds different from the balanced.  I prefer it. It's tonality.  Less analytical more musical (personal view) 

Performance wise at this price point you're not getting much difference in detail etc


----------



## rkw

Chronnoisseur said:


> Using it for my HD650 mostly but also for my HE6se until I can find a good speaker amp.  Can I use the Jot as a dac/preamp when I do find a suitable amp for the HE6se?


Jot would be fine as a preamp for an external amp for the HE6se. If you use the Jot as a preamp for actual speakers, an issue is going back and forth between headphones and speakers, because the Jot preamp output is active all the time and you have to mute/unmute the speaker amp manually.


----------



## bofh

rkw said:


> Jot would be fine as a preamp for an external amp for the HE6se. If you use the Jot as a preamp for actual speakers, an issue is going back and forth between headphones and speakers, because the Jot preamp output is active all the time and you have to mute/unmute the speaker amp manually.



That is what I am using here - Jot MM + Grado 80e + pair of Active 40 from Paradigm speakers; the speakers are on small smart power plugs from Gosund ( https://www.amazon.com/Gosund-Compatible-Required-appliances-Certified/dp/B079MFTYMV?ref_=ast_sto_dp );  with a google mini - anyone has one on the does , it is just OK google, turn office left on|off  / turn office right on|off.  

Had to find a solution for home office when acquired Jot and realised that headphones jack does not disconnect preamp outs. 

Can turn them on while seating and thinking what to listen to. 

Best, 
/bofh


----------



## adydula

The PYST cables from Schiit are good cables....


----------



## paulybatz

What is the output power of the Jotunheim


----------



## adydula

https://www.schiit.com/products/jotunheim


----------



## AppleheadMay

Anybody else thinks the Jotunheim is getting really hot?
I left it on for about 4 hours, the case is too hot to touch and I can hold the volume knob no longer than 2 seconds.
The Lyr 3 and Bifrost 2 are getting hot as well though a bit less.


----------



## paulybatz

I read 100 reviews. I saw it runs hot


----------



## adydula

My Jot does not get that hot??


----------



## TS0711

New Jotunheim, old multibit = one happy schiit head


----------



## rkw

AppleheadMay said:


> Anybody else thinks the Jotunheim is getting really hot?
> I left it on for about 4 hours, the case is too hot to touch and I can hold the volume knob no longer than 2 seconds.


Mine gets warm (left on 24/7). I would not describe mine as hot, certainly not what you wrote. I recommend that you ask Schiit customer support.


----------



## TS0711

AppleheadMay said:


> Anybody else thinks the Jotunheim is getting really hot?
> I left it on for about 4 hours, the case is too hot to touch and I can hold the volume knob no longer than 2 seconds.
> The Lyr 3 and Bifrost 2 are getting hot as well though a bit less.


Mine has been on for 10+ hours and it's nowhere as warm as the Asgard 2 it replaces.


----------



## G0rt

Mine is on 24/7 and is barely warm.


----------



## AppleheadMay (Mar 23, 2020)

Weird, mine is really bloody hot, when you touch the top or front plate you can't keep your fingers on it.
It is sandwiched between the Bifrost and the Lyr though, but still ...

I'm returning it, I wouldn't even dare keeping this thing on 24/7 as it 'd probably catch fire. Also, print was missing below the two toggle switches on the front.
B-stock? I paid full price though.

It sounded damn good though and not only at this price but well over it's price.
So do the Lyr and Bifrost.


----------



## aisalen

adydula said:


> My Jot does not get that hot??


Same with my unit.


----------



## tcellguy

AppleheadMay said:


> Weird, mine is really bloody hot, when you touch the top or front plate you can't keep your fingers on it.
> It is sandwiched between the Bifrost and the Lyr though, but still ...
> 
> I'm returning it, I wouldn't even dare keeping this thing on 24/7 as it 'd probably catch fire. Also, print was missing below the two toggle switches on the front.
> ...



I had the same configuration, had the  hot Jot problem you have, and Jason said not to stack amps. I now have the Jot on top the bifrost 2 and Lyr 3 to the side. It gets warm, but not crazy hot.


----------



## AppleheadMay

I now have only the Lyr and Bifrost on since early this morning, the Bifrost isn't even warm and the Lyr only slightly so all the heat came from the Jot.
Since the Jot doesn't even get warm for other people and yours still does stacking isn't the only problem.
I'm sending back that unit, it's simply a fire hazard. and some print is missing on the front as well.


----------



## adydula

I would contact Schiit and let them replace the unit etc....and the missing "symbols" sounds really wierd ??

Mine is in between a Bifrost 2 on the bottom and a Lyr 3 on top.

I just turned it on, all three and I will report back on how warm mine gets...

Alex


----------



## AppleheadMay

adydula said:


> I would contact Schiit and let them replace the unit etc....and the missing "symbols" sounds really wierd ??
> 
> Mine is in between a Bifrost 2 on the bottom and a Lyr 3 on top.
> 
> ...



Thanks Adydula, I have the same 3 devices stacked the exact same way.
Here nothing gets hot (just warm) as long as the Jot is not powerd on, but once it is the Jot gets flaming hot, the other two pretty hot as well.

The missing symbols are those for low gain and RCA input, below the toggles, they forgot to print them.
The high gain and USB input above the toggles are there as well as the XLR one besides one of the toggles.

Also, the Bifrost 2 and Lyr 3 are the same color, the Jot a lot cooler silver color, pretty noticeable. Do you have that as well?
I contacted Schiit about that last week and they said it's normal, they used a different manufacturer for the Jot.


----------



## adydula (Mar 24, 2020)

Here is my stack presently...

All three are on.

Only 20 minutes and the JOT is just slightly warm to the touch. I will leave it on for an hour and report back...


----------



## adydula

Ok its a little over an hour and the units are both very warm, but not really hot...The heat from the Jot is flowing up into the Lyr 3 and making it more warm than when its the only thing on.

I can touch the front plate or face of the JOT and its warm but not really hot, and I can touch it and not have to remove my hand due to really being "hot".

I can lift up the Lyr 3 and hold it with no issues as well as the Jot.

Based on this from an engineering perspective , heat is not really good for components and cooler is better IMO...that said amps etc do get warm and sometimes they appear to be much hotter that we might like or think....and I would not run these both on for long periods just for that reason. I think even stacked like this they would be ok, but again not a good idea for me...

Sometimes I do power both up to do some comparisons but its for a short period of time, 30 minutes --- and hour...If I was going to do an all day event I would seperate them.

But with all three devices on there is no real fire hazard IMO....

If your JOT is really getting HOT in a stand alone situation then I would definitely call Schiit, they have always been great with me in resolving stuff...

All the best...and yes the Jot reallty does sound or work well!!

Alex


----------



## AppleheadMay

Thanks Alex!

Here it's not warm, it's hot. The Bifrost and Lyr get hot when the Jot is on, the Jopt is too hot to touch, even the volume knob can't be held for long.
I made a return, luckily this one is from Shiit UK else it'd be expensive.


----------



## adydula

Wondering if the vent holes are plugged up with something or not fully open?? Something that would prevent the heat from being allowed to vent out?

This one is a really odd one, I have not heard an amp getting really hot except with the early Shiit Asgard in Class A...

Please let us know how it goes!

Alex


----------



## G0rt

AppleheadMay said:


> Thanks Alex!
> 
> Here it's not warm, it's hot. The Bifrost and Lyr get hot when the Jot is on, the Jopt is too hot to touch, even the volume knob can't be held for long.
> I made a return, luckily this one is from Shiit UK else it'd be expensive.



Ah. UK voltage, then, unlike mine. My Lyr3 sits on top of it, with the CV1988 on a saver. My little Mimby/SYS/Vali2 stack gets warmer.


----------



## paulybatz

adydula said:


> Here is my stack presently...
> 
> All three are on.
> 
> Only 20 minutes and the JOT is just slightly warm to the touch. I will leave it on for an hour and report back...


Nice pile of ..... 

Joining the Jot club. Mine is on the way.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Yep, nice pile indeed.
Got the same pile with a nice Treasure Globe and a Psvane CV-181.
Jot is on the way back, going to order a new one.
And hopefully some kind of Loki in this size soon.


----------



## adydula

The Lyr and Jot are both great, just a little different in the sound, but I could be happy with either one...


----------



## Nick-s-f

My Jotunheim runs a fair temperature, barely warm to the touch after a full day of use. 
My old Magni 2u even ran a bit hotter when I owned one.


----------



## TS0711

Current basement office stack, on 10+ hours and just warm.  I'll only turn off the Saga (gen1 used for volume control). Very Happy!


----------



## paulybatz

Wow another stack of Shhhhhhh
Crazy....solid state is amazing.


----------



## Sean H

I don't know if this has happened to anyone else or if this has been covered in this 400+ page thread, but I have a black Jot and the volume knob is the more shiny silver looking style that I often see mostly on the silver units instead of the more nickel/aluminum-matte style seen on most black units. Has this happened to anyone else? I contacted Schiit twice about why this happened and if I could have a matte-aluminum style sent out to me and each time I inquired they wouldn't write me back.


----------



## TS0711

paulybatz said:


> Wow another stack of Shhhhhhh
> Crazy....solid state is amazing.


With all this talk of heat, I picked up some vibration pads for spacers... You can see my Mac mini as one of the sources in the photo.  There's and old Cal Audio Labs transport in the mix as well. My Jot has the phono board so I know you can guess what is next.


----------



## adydula

SOL!!!


----------



## paulybatz

Hmmmm


----------



## adydula (Mar 26, 2020)

Sean H said:


> I don't know if this has happened to anyone else or if this has been covered in this 400+ page thread, but I have a black Jot and the volume knob is the more shiny silver looking style that I often see mostly on the silver units instead of the more nickel/aluminum-matte style seen on most black units. Has this happened to anyone else? I contacted Schiit twice about why this happened and if I could have a matte-aluminum style sent out to me and each time I inquired they wouldn't write me back.



I have asked Schiit questions many times and they always have repsonded. Sometimes its not the answer I want, but on all occasions they have responded and heled with my issues.

Try this if you havent received a reply....it generates a problem tracking number that gets sent to your email address so you can track it.

info@schiit.com

FYI..My black jot as you can see in the pictures has a silver dull matt finish, while on the Schiit site the silver ones seem to have the shiny aluminum ones. 
Post #6,216 of 6,231

Alex


----------



## adydula

I got a new Lyr 3 last week and really like it very much. After a week with it I am listening to the Jotenheim and once again am amazed at how well this amp works with my FOcal Clears and HD 600's....seems after a week with an amp, things become well....a bit like the new norm, then swap out and its like its new all over again!! ha!

Humans are funny creatures!!

Check out the Schiit B-stock all kinds of stuff including the Jotenheim!

Alex


----------



## genck

adydula said:


> I got a new Lyr 3 last week and really like it very much. After a week with it I am listening to the Jotenheim and once again am amazed at how well this amp works with my FOcal Clears and HD 600's....seems after a week with an amp, things become well....a bit like the new norm, then swap out and its like its new all over again!! ha!
> 
> Humans are funny creatures!!
> 
> ...


I noticed you sold your Vahalla 2, did you not like it more than the Lyr 3 for high impedance headphones like the HD600?
Kind of an OTL vs hybrid question in itself


----------



## Sean H

adydula said:


> I have asked Schiit questions many times and they always have repsonded. Sometimes its not the answer I want, but on all occasions they have responded and heled with my issues.
> 
> Try this if you havent received a reply....it generates a problem tracking number that gets sent to your email address so you can track it.
> 
> ...



Thanks, Alex. I've had to contact them for other things before and have always had good response but when I pushed this volume knob thing they wouldn't write me back. However, I sent a new inquiry into them again this morning and they are now sending me out a new knob! I recently picked up a Bifrost 2 in black and it's matte aluminum buttons were not jiving with the shiny knob on the Jot and thought I might prod them again with the correct knob. I appreciate that they are rectifying it.


----------



## paulybatz

Im glad too!!!


----------



## adydula (Mar 26, 2020)

Sean H said:


> Thanks, Alex. I've had to contact them for other things before and have always had good response but when I pushed this volume knob thing they wouldn't write me back. However, I sent a new inquiry into them again this morning and they are now sending me out a new knob! I recently picked up a Bifrost 2 in black and it's matte aluminum buttons were not jiving with the shiny knob on the Jot and thought I might prod them again with the correct knob. I appreciate that they are rectifying it.


Great!!

Another example of great Schiit customer service....sometimes it just takes a second time at bat!!  Enjoy your new Knob!!!

Yeah!
Alex

...and it might sound better now!!! lol


----------



## adydula

genck said:


> I noticed you sold your Vahalla 2, did you not like it more than the Lyr 3 for high impedance headphones like the HD600?
> Kind of an OTL vs hybrid question in itself


Yes I sold the Vahalla 2, I really did not want to but I had 14 amps here and it just was not getting used, due to all my reviewing and testing here....so I decided to part with some of the amps I have and give them new homes for folks at a decent price....and hope they enjoy them as well...

The HD600's work very well with the Lyr 3 anf the Jot....close and I still have 2 tube amps similar to the V2.

One OTL and the other a parafeed type.

Trying to get back to 5-6 amps and some normalcy!!

:>)

Alex


----------



## tracyca

Spending my afternoon enjoying the Jot & cobalt as dac with my mr speakers Aeon flow closed.


----------



## paulybatz

Niceness


----------



## mresseguie

adydula said:


> Yes I sold the Vahalla 2, I really did not want to but I had 14 amps here and it just was not getting used, due to all my reviewing and testing here....so I decided to part with some of the amps I have and give them new homes for folks at a decent price....and hope they enjoy them as well...
> 
> The HD600's work very well with the Lyr 3 anf the Jot....close and I still have 2 tube amps similar to the V2.
> 
> ...


 Hi, Alex.

Long time no chat. Kinda miss your cheery demeanor.

My HPA arrived two days ago, but I'm letting it sit in my garage for a couple days just in case the shipping box picked up any nasty virus germs in transit. I have a Lyr3 that I bought last year. Do you think the Lyr3 as pre/DAC mated to my new HPA would be a great match, or might I do better (for more $$$, of course) buying a new DAC? Which DACs do you think will fit best to power my HD650s?

Michael


----------



## paulybatz

Wipe it down with wipes!!!!


----------



## Sean H

paulybatz said:


> Wipe it down with wipes!!!!



I was going to say the same. Just wipe it down if you have some disinfectant wipes. Probably think I’m crazy, but I would even wipe the unit down as well. They’re finding this crap can live on so many surfaces for a long time! Best to kill it with wipes as opposed to relying on a random length of time just sitting there.


----------



## adydula

mresseguie said:


> Hi, Alex.
> 
> Long time no chat. Kinda miss your cheery demeanor.
> 
> ...


Hello !!

Glad it got back to you !!

I am on the road right now and will reply in detail in a few hours. Stay safe.

Alex


----------



## paulybatz

Looking forward to your thoughts and opinions


----------



## adydula

mresseguie said:


> Hi, Alex.
> 
> Long time no chat. Kinda miss your cheery demeanor.
> 
> ...


HI MIchael!

Back home!

Thanks for the nice note, the other site is still "broke" and my access is restricted. Which is fine with me. Long Sory.

I would highl recommend and external dac like the Bifrost 2 to use with your amps....either the HPA or the Lyr 3. Its really a better dac all around.

Your HPA really deserves a good dac...the Bifrost 2 is one, although the HPA designer doesn necessarily like the Schiit stuff....but I totally disagree as hundreds of us think its one of the best dacs out there under $1000 and even above.

The rme-adi2 and D90 are alternatives as well, but I perfer the MB dacs over DS dacs...

I am active on this website in several threads and at the forum at headphone.com and hi-fi guides...please join us if you want.

All the best!
Alex


----------



## paulybatz

adydula said:


> HI MIchael!
> 
> Back home!
> 
> ...


What is MB / DS?


----------



## genck

paulybatz said:


> What is MB / DS?


multibit / delta sigma (dacs)


----------



## adydula

yup...most dacs out there are a delta sigma design and the other type less prevalent are the ladder dacs or multi-bit dacs used a long time ago, kind of died when the DS designed dacs started popping put all over the place....until Schiit and MIke Moffet came out with their new versions of multibit dacs and took the audio world by storm!!

Lots of opinions and reviews on all these...I prefer the MB dac from Schitt and have been using them for several years....

Alex


----------



## paulybatz

Thanks for the note...so much info...feel like Neo in the matrix these days.


----------



## adydula

It can be overwhelming, but you dont really need to know alot about circuit design etc....find a headphone you really like, bu auditioning to them, then get a amp/dac to match.

Many amps today are very good and it boils down to preference and taste....the most important things are your headphones and your source material or music....the dac and amp are imporant but not as important as those two..

You can get amps that are designed for certain types of headphone impedances...just get one that will work with hi and low impedance cans...

The dac can be one of many ...and then there is your budget and what you can afford....

Alex


----------



## paulybatz

Absolutely. 
Source is so very important. 
TIDAL highlights this...old versus new recordings


----------



## Smoothstereo

Nice Schiit stack/pile guys. Question for those who own both the Jot and Lyr3, why you decided to go with these two amps in tandem vs. say a Mjolnir2 which seems to cover both what the Jot and Lyr3 can do. Is it because of unit size or is it due to something else. Just curious.

Thanks.


----------



## G0rt

Smoothstereo said:


> Nice Schiit stack/pile guys. Question for those who own both the Jot and Lyr3, why you decided to go with these two amps in tandem vs. say a Mjolnir2 which seems to cover both what the Jot and Lyr3 can do. Is it because of unit size or is it due to something else. Just curious.
> 
> Thanks.



Curiosity mostly, and nuance, and synergy. Besides Jot and Lyr3, I also use Valhalla2 and Mjolnir2 (and Vali2), and at the end of the day, I suspect I could be happy with any one of them. They're just that good.

But experimentally I've found I do have preferences, depending on particular headphones and music, so with such an embarrassment of riches I mix and match.

I've found Lyr3 a perfect complement for HD700, using any of many NOS bottles, but especially Brimar CV1988. This is my current favorite, just incredibly dynamic and lovely in every way.

Jot + Ananda fed balanced with a Focal cable is my always-on, pick it up and listen combo, tasty sweet and smooth across genres.

Mjolnir2 + LCD-3f, an old Norse Reign8 balanced cable and NOS Brimar CV4033's is what comes up when I want to listen hard. 

These, BTW, are all driven by an OG Gungnir Multibit and a Pi4b/Digi+Pro running Rune, coaxial S/PDIF into Gumby's BNC.

Valhalla2 is fed with a Bifrost 4490 Gen5 USB from the same Pi4b, has Brimar 6BQ7A's, and usually plays either an HD800/SDR or HD800S, the 800 with a Draug2. Wildly detailed without being overbearing, and amazing for classical.

Vali2 + Modi MB with NOS Amperex ECC40, optical feed from the same Pi4b, usually drives HD660S, else Beyer DT1990 or DT177x. Jazz, rock, fusion...

It's All Good.


----------



## paulybatz

Wow. Lots of stuffs there.


----------



## Smoothstereo

G0rt said:


> Curiosity mostly, and nuance, and synergy. Besides Jot and Lyr3, I also use Valhalla2 and Mjolnir2 (and Vali2), and at the end of the day, I suspect I could be happy with any one of them. They're just that good.
> 
> But experimentally I've found I do have preferences, depending on particular headphones and music, so with such an embarrassment of riches I mix and match.
> 
> ...


Nice ! Now that's dedication to the craft. I wish I have the means and the space for all that gear. If you had to pick one amp only, which one would it be from your stash and why?


----------



## Sean H (Mar 28, 2020)

G0rt said:


> These, BTW, are all driven by an OG Gungnir Multibit and a Pi4b/Digi+Pro running Rune, coaxial S/PDIF into Gumby's BNC.



Interesting your choice to convert to BNC. I use a reclocker/upsampler and run coaxial out of it to my Bifrost 2. However, the reclocker has a BNC output and have wondered if I either (A) used a BNC to coaxial adapter or (B) bought a BNC and RCA terminated cable if it would make a difference than the straight coax I'm running now and try to take advantage of that BNC output. If would sort of be what you are doing but in reverse. Have you compared the way you are doing it now to just straight coaxial? Are you using an adapter or an RCA > BNC terminated cable? I do understand how BNC cables are true 75 ohm and when you stray from that with a coax RCA adapter or termination on one end that you negate the purity of the 75 ohms but I would still be curious to know your experience here. Thanks.


----------



## adydula

I have 14+ amps here, constantly buying, reviewing and testing in my home, with my gear to see really first hand whether all the hype with new amps really are.

Reading reviews and looking at specs only goes so far...and the final arbiter is having the gear and using it....then YOU can decide.

This is why I have these and others...

Variety is the spice of life....many of the amps I have do very well and many of them would be ok it was the only one....but I would have a hard time deciding!! LOL.

The Schiit stuff is absolutley great and either of the amps would work with most anything very well.

Alex


----------



## G0rt

Smoothstereo said:


> Nice ! Now that's dedication to the craft. I wish I have the means and the space for all that gear. If you had to pick one amp only, which one would it be from your stash and why?



Everything fits nicely on a 3-shelf Sanus AFA, powered through Furman and Pangea, and mostly cabled with Mogami.

It all happened over a short period of time, as money and gear arose, much of the gear being found here at rational prices, and mostly driven by curiousity and life experience with great gear that was never mine. 

I retired and indulged. It all began with a Mimby, for my DIY 2-channel system, and I was sufficiently mindblown to just keep wanting more Schiit.

Lyr3 is my favorite, by a nose. It's got just a single bottle to roll, and sounds great with just about anything I'm likely to use. I have a set of adaptors to allow 8 and 9 pin miniatures, although I generally like octals best.

It sounds great with all my cans, but has a remarkable synergy with HD700, and the combination tics all the boxes.

For me. I haven't bought more gear since, other than tubes. I can imagine having a Yggdrasil, but honestly the Gungnir Multibit sounds so good to me that I'm not highly motivated, even by curiousity.

I don't know anything about the DAC cards, but Gumby and Lyr3 is golden. I'm guessing Bifrost2 and Lyr3 would be as well. With a Jot on the side for balanced, which IMO sounds better with planars.


----------



## G0rt

Sean H said:


> Interesting your choice to convert to BNC. I use a reclocker/upsampler and run coaxial out of it to my Bifrost 2. However, the reclocker has a BNC output and have wondered if I either (A) used a BNC to coaxial adapter or (B) bought a BNC and RCA terminated cable if it would make a difference than the straight coax I'm running now and try to take advantage of that BNC output. If would sort of be what you are doing but in reverse. Have you compared the way you are doing it now to just straight coaxial? Are you using an adapter or an RCA > BNC terminated cable? I do understand how BNC cables are true 75 ohm and when you stray from that with a coax RCA adapter or termination on one end that you negate the purity of the 75 ohms but I would still be curious to know your experience here. Thanks.



I'd read that the BNC input on Gumby was best, and you would expect a proper 75 ohm receive termination to have fewest problems with reflections, and potential impact on jitter.

The funky phono connector on the transmitting side should matter less. I could add a BNC to the Digi+ Pro, but I'd then have to drill the pretty steel case, and I haven't felt the need.

In practice, I was unable to discern any difference between phono/phono and phono/BNC.


----------



## adydula (Mar 28, 2020)

Yup the Lyr 3 and Bifrost 2 are very close to an end game here!!

Focal Clears and these two with great music is 10/10

Alex


----------



## SLC1966

AppleheadMay said:


> Weird, mine is really bloody hot, when you touch the top or front plate you can't keep your fingers on it.
> It is sandwiched between the Bifrost and the Lyr though, but still ...
> 
> I'm returning it, I wouldn't even dare keeping this thing on 24/7 as it 'd probably catch fire. Also, print was missing below the two toggle switches on the front.
> ...


The heat you are experiencing on the Jot is not normal. I would let Schiit know so they replace it or if you return it they then know the fix it before they sell to someone else. It should be warm to touch not hot to touch like other Schiit Amps.

it is a wonderful amp/DAC and can be left on 24/7 without heat build up.


----------



## mresseguie

SLC1966 said:


> The heat you are experiencing on the Jot is not normal. I would let Schiit know so they replace it or if you return it they then know the fix it before they sell to someone else. It should be warm to touch not hot to touch like other Schiit Amps.
> 
> it is a wonderful amp/DAC and can be left on 24/7 without heat build up.



I noticed that my Lyr3 gets really hot. I was very concerned about it initially - even asked customer support about it - but finally got used to it. I've thought about trying to fry an egg on it, but with my luck the albumen would drip inside and fry the amp.


----------



## AppleheadMay

mresseguie said:


> I noticed that my Lyr3 gets really hot. I was very concerned about it initially - even asked customer support about it - but finally got used to it. I've thought about trying to fry an egg on it, but with my luck the albumen would drip inside and fry the amp.



The amp fries the egg, the egg fries the amp. Revenge!


----------



## Sean H

G0rt said:


> I'd read that the BNC input on Gumby was best, and you would expect a proper 75 ohm receive termination to have fewest problems with reflections, and potential impact on jitter.
> 
> The funky phono connector on the transmitting side should matter less. I could add a BNC to the Digi+ Pro, but I'd then have to drill the pretty steel case, and I haven't felt the need.
> 
> In practice, I was unable to discern any difference between phono/phono and phono/BNC.



Ok, thanks. I’m getting the sense I wouldn’t notice much difference. I’m going to get a reflection, with an adapter or a terminated cable, either way. Wish the Bifrost 2 had BNC. Not sure if you’ve heard this before but I’ve read it many times, that a coax digital cable should be at least 1.5m or 5ft in length as shorter cables can cause reflections. You may already be aware. I’m running a five foot just in case.


----------



## mresseguie

Hello, Sean.

I discovered 1.5m (or 5 ft) coax cable lengths are best last year when I purchased a SW1X DAC. Slawa, the designer doesn't care for USB connectivity, so I bought an adapter with its own 1.5m coax. It's not as convenient as USB connectivity, but oh the sound quality....

Michael


----------



## G0rt

Sean H said:


> Ok, thanks. I’m getting the sense I wouldn’t notice much difference. I’m going to get a reflection, with an adapter or a terminated cable, either way. Wish the Bifrost 2 had BNC. Not sure if you’ve heard this before but I’ve read it many times, that a coax digital cable should be at least 1.5m or 5ft in length as shorter cables can cause reflections. You may already be aware. I’m running a five foot just in case.



I tried several cables, from 1-6 feet long, and heard no difference. Schiit in general seems pretty forgiving. I can imagine other gear might not be.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Ok, I sent the Jotunheim back and received a refund.
I gave the info to the distributor and warned him about the amp getting so hot, he tested it and said it didn't get hot, he'll sell it again.

Ordered a new one straight from Schiit US.
- nearly the same color case of my Bifrost and Lyr while the previous one had a very different hue.
- all print is there, the previous one was missing some print below the switches.
- no more heat problems. Same placement (between Bifrost and Lyr), exact same cables used (XLR, USB, optical and power), exact same headphone connected, turned all three devices on with the two amps above half volume and left them on for six hours. The previous one was so hot it barely could be touched, this one is just slightly warm.


----------



## genck

AppleheadMay said:


> Ok, I sent the Jotunheim back and received a refund.
> I gave the info to the distributor and warned him about the amp getting so hot, he tested it and said it didn't get hot, he'll sell it again.
> 
> Ordered a new one straight from Schiit US.
> ...


Good to see you have a correctly working unit. That prior seller/distributor is shady, I'd avoid them in the future.


----------



## AppleheadMay

genck said:


> Good to see you have a correctly working unit. That prior seller/distributor is shady, I'd avoid them in the future.



Thanks!
Yep, ordering my Schiit from the US from now on.


----------



## adydula

On my 12+ amp rotation I left the Lyr 3 and moved to the Jotenheim....

Pleasantly surprised once again using the HD600's!! 

A wonderful paring with the Jot in High Gain mode....

Listening to SMV, Thunder CD....bass oh my bass!!!

Amazed at what the low cost HD600s do on the Jot...really a good pairing here!

Alex

:>)


----------



## adydula

I was thinking, that most of the Schiit amps would provide someone on a limited budget for headphones like the HD600's a really first class setup. Many times folks getting into this hobby ask me what should they buy....and its always the headphone followed by the source material, amp and dac....

A HD600 for less than $300 or the drop's HD6XX for $195 is a killer deal for a really good set of cans....and pair that with any of the Schiit dacs/amps and you have a great system that should provide years of listening fun...

Alex


----------



## genck

adydula said:


> I was thinking, that most of the Schiit amps would provide someone on a limited budget for headphones like the HD600's a really first class setup. Many times folks getting into this hobby ask me what should they buy....and its always the headphone followed by the source material, amp and dac....
> 
> A HD600 for less than $300 or the drop's HD6XX for $195 is a killer deal for a really good set of cans....and pair that with any of the Schiit dacs/amps and you have a great system that should provide years of listening fun...
> 
> Alex


Not trying to get off topic but it's still Schiit related. I have the Asgard 3/4490 with the 6xx and I feel no need to upgrade anything, so I completely agree. Excellent sound. For $500 I'd say it would be hard to beat, but I'm no expert.


----------



## adydula

genck...

Your totally correct IMO.

Enjoy what you have..."but" there are other headphones that do work "better" than the HD6xx's....and yes there is a cost associated with them.

So if you get a chance you might want to listen or audition other headphones and see if they might provide the same or even better presentation for you..

But with what you have, your happy and smiling and thats what its all about!!

Alex

Note: Your Schiit base of Asgard 3 and dac is just great!


----------



## AppleheadMay

Pardon my French but both the Lyr and Jotunheim I have are indeed bloody good amps.
I have 4490 cards in both my amps as well but the Bifrost is an upgrade to those.
I'm waiting for the Valhalla 3 and Loki Max to complete my set.


----------



## adydula

AppleheadMay said:


> Pardon my French but both the Lyr and Jotunheim I have are indeed bloody good amps.
> I have 4490 cards in both my amps as well but the Bifrost is an upgrade to those.
> I'm waiting for the Valhalla 3 and Loki Max to complete my set.



I dont know if there will be a Vahalla 3 anytime soon...


----------



## AppleheadMay

I don’t know either but since it has the older case I’m hoping ...


----------



## AppleheadMay

I just feel like adding everything the same size I can to that stack, enjoying it so much. 
I wonder if ding the asgard is any use, already having the Jotunheim ...


----------



## adydula

Gosh asking me who has so many amps is like asking an addict for some drugs!!! LOL!!

If you can afford it I would buy one and see for yourself...thats half the fun for me...

Its a good amp for a really decent price for sure....

Thats one amp I do not have..."yet"....


----------



## Smoothstereo

G0rt said:


> Curiosity mostly, and nuance, and synergy. Besides Jot and Lyr3, I also use Valhalla2 and Mjolnir2 (and Vali2), and at the end of the day, I suspect I could be happy with any one of them. They're just that good.
> 
> But experimentally I've found I do have preferences, depending on particular headphones and music, so with such an embarrassment of riches I mix and match.
> 
> ...


Question for G0rt and others.

Has anyone who owns a Jot paired it to a Vali2, where the Vali2 is used as a tube preamp/buffer? If so,  how did that sound? For my next amp,  I am deciding between a Jot or a Mjolnir2. I currently have a Vali2 with some 6922, 5670, 6SN7, 6H8C, and dual 6J5 tubes (with adapters) and was thinking if I can pair the Jot with the Vali2 (Valiheim), can I get close or similar to the MJ2 in performance? 

Would a Valiheim be a viable and competitive solution ? This will be a cheaper route for me, but if this sounds good on paper but poor in reality, I don't mind paying up for the MJ2. But thought I ask if others have tried this combo or Jot with another tube preamp/buffer.

Thanks.


----------



## paulybatz

I am digging this little piece of Shiit
Really nice / clear / detailed amp 
Can not wait to get a balanced cable to see what it can really push.


----------



## descloud

paulybatz said:


> I am digging this little piece of Shiit
> Really nice / clear / detailed amp
> Can not wait to get a balanced cable to see what it can really push.



What headphones are you running the balanced output with? Most headphones don't really need that much feed and going balanced unlikely will make a difference unless you're using something like the HE-6.


----------



## paulybatz

Hedd AMT


----------



## descloud

paulybatz said:


> Hedd AMT


damn that will definitely be an interesting listen.  Look forward to your impressions on them from SE to balanced.


----------



## paulybatz

It’s nice single ended...but I think it will be stellar balanced


----------



## dr cornelius

adydula said:


> ...Amazed at what the low cost HD600s do on the Jot...really a good pairing here!



It's one of my favorite combos too.


----------



## AppleheadMay

It does really well with the HD600/650/800S/820, which makes me wonder how much better a Valhalla might be for these than a Lyr. The higher impedance Senns are known to pair well with OTL amps.


----------



## adydula

Most anything will work well with the Jot and the Lyr 3....

Great on the HEDD's!

Let us know how they work.....

Alex


----------



## Tuneslover (Apr 3, 2020)

Smoothstereo said:


> Question for G0rt and others.
> 
> Has anyone who owns a Jot paired it to a Vali2, where the Vali2 is used as a tube preamp/buffer? If so,  how did that sound? For my next amp,  I am deciding between a Jot or a Mjolnir2. I currently have a Vali2 with some 6922, 5670, 6SN7, 6H8C, and dual 6J5 tubes (with adapters) and was thinking if I can pair the Jot with the Vali2 (Valiheim), can I get close or similar to the MJ2 in performance?
> 
> ...


----------



## paulybatz

dr cornelius said:


> It's one of my favorite combos too.


Soon to run the 650s


----------



## G0rt

Smoothstereo said:


> Question for G0rt and others.
> 
> Has anyone who owns a Jot paired it to a Vali2, where the Vali2 is used as a tube preamp/buffer? If so,  how did that sound? For my next amp,  I am deciding between a Jot or a Mjolnir2. I currently have a Vali2 with some 6922, 5670, 6SN7, 6H8C, and dual 6J5 tubes (with adapters) and was thinking if I can pair the Jot with the Vali2 (Valiheim), can I get close or similar to the MJ2 in performance?
> 
> ...



I find Mjolnir2 superior to my other Schiit in terms of refinement and transparency, and I very much doubt that any combo of lesser gear would provide just that. If you feed it with inferior source material, that's exactly what you'll hear.

OTOH, whether that's what you really want is an open question. Lyr3 conveys more excitement, which if I think about it is likely the result of some kind of dynamic distortion. But I like it, quite a lot.

Mjolnir2 is what I like for careful, critical listening, with a minimum of coloration. In combination with unforgiving cans like HD800, it can be a little overwhelming, but the vibrant, honey sweet mids of an LCD-3f perk up just right. 

With Gumby. Balanced. YMMV.


----------



## Smoothstereo

G0rt said:


> I find Mjolnir2 superior to my other Schiit in terms of refinement and transparency, and I very much doubt that any combo of lesser gear would provide just that. If you feed it with inferior source material, that's exactly what you'll hear.
> 
> OTOH, whether that's what you really want is an open question. Lyr3 conveys more excitement, which if I think about it is likely the result of some kind of dynamic distortion. But I like it, quite a lot.
> 
> ...


Thanks, appreciate the feedback, makes sense.


----------



## paulybatz

It definitely powers the Hedd perfectly single ended but not LOUD...It is plenty at 2/3 o’clock but I think and hope I’ll get even more depth balanced. We will see...if only I could solder...but not quite yet.


----------



## AppleheadMay

paulybatz said:


> It definitely powers the Hedd perfectly single ended but not LOUD...It is plenty at 2/3 o’clock but I think and hope I’ll get even more depth balanced. We will see...if only I could solder...but not quite yet.



I't ll go louder and sound more detailed balanced.


----------



## paulybatz

It is a very precise amp...quite and pleasantly surprised


----------



## paulybatz

AppleheadMay said:


> I't ll go louder and sound more detailed balanced.


Listening to TIDAL Brazilian jazz...the detail is amazing...perfect combo.


----------



## Klmahnn (Apr 17, 2020)

AppleheadMay said:


> Thanks!
> Yep, ordering my Schiit from the US from now on.


Was this the UK-based or NL-based dealer? I was just thinking of ordering...

EDIT: never mind I saw that you stated UK earlier... that's a shame


----------



## AppleheadMay

Klmahnn said:


> Was this the UK-based or NL-based dealer? I was just thinking of ordering...
> 
> EDIT: never mind I saw that you stated UK earlier... that's a shame



Didn’t fare too well with either of them concerning the goods I received.
They were friendly though and always refunded.


----------



## Klmahnn

I've come so close to pulling the trigger on a Schiit product only to discover some kind of problem/fault doing some last minute digging and it throws me off... Same with Focal, and Audeze/Hifiman I've already boycotted for now.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Didn’t have any problems with the 3 devices I received from the US.
And the SQ well exceeds the price.
I have the Bifrost, Jot and Lyr, latest iterations of all three of them.


----------



## Klmahnn

Yeah I'll probably bite the bullet eventually and get it straight from HQ


----------



## Wes S (Apr 17, 2020)

Hey all fellow Jotunheim owners!  I have had mine out of rotation for several years, and just recently put it back into the mix.  I have to say, this amp rocks, and scales really well when fed balanced in from my Gumby.  This amp is so versatile, and is one I will never get rid of.  The bass and dynamics kick like a mule, when paired with the Gumby and ZMF Ori (balanced in & balanced out), and it is a very fun listen with some good Electronica.

Happy Friday, and Happy Listening!


----------



## armani006

What is better Jotunheim Multibit or Denafrips Ares II  ? Thinking about multibit DAC, didn't listen so want to try...


----------



## paulybatz

AppleheadMay said:


> Didn’t have any problems with the 3 devices I received from the US.
> And the SQ well exceeds the price.
> I have the Bifrost, Jot and Lyr, latest iterations of all three of them.



I agree...the jot is definitely well
Worth the money


----------



## tcellguy

Does anyone know if there was an update to the internal AK4490 card since initial release? If so does it sound any better?


----------



## housekrl

Hello, new to this thread.
Anyone have experience with the Jotunheim and Ananda combo? I'm looking for a good ss amp.
Thanks


----------



## 565hunter

housekrl said:


> Hello, new to this thread.
> Anyone have experience with the Jotunheim and Ananda combo? I'm looking for a good ss amp.
> Thanks


The Ananda is extremely easy to drive. The Jot drives my Ether Flows, HD800, HD600/650 with great authority. I can't imagine it wouldn't pair very well for you.


----------



## housekrl

565hunter said:


> The Ananda is extremely easy to drive. The Jot drives my Ether Flows, HD800, HD600/650 with great authority. I can't imagine it wouldn't pair very well for you.


Thank you. Would you say the Jotunheim is neutral or does it lean towards a bright signature? The Ananda already leans towards being bright. 
Thank you for your help.


----------



## tcellguy

If anything, Jotunheim leans towards a warm signature with really punch bass. The ETHER Cx headphones are pretty bright and were painful on the THX789 but sound great with Jotunheim.


----------



## housekrl

tcellguy said:


> If anything, Jotunheim leans towards a warm signature with really punch bass. The ETHER Cx headphones are pretty bright and were painful on the THX789 but sound great with Jotunheim.


Oh good, sounds like the right amp for me. Im used to the WA6 tube amp. Been wanting to change things up a bit.
Thank you guys for your help.


----------



## Dana Reed

housekrl said:


> Oh good, sounds like the right amp for me. Im used to the WA6 tube amp. Been wanting to change things up a bit.
> Thank you guys for your help.


I can say the Jotunheim sounds great with the HE6SE, and those are also relatively bright (at least compared to LCD2, and T1), and are the hardest-to-drive headphones I own.


----------



## housekrl

Dana Reed said:


> I can say the Jotunheim sounds great with the HE6SE, and those are also relatively bright (at least compared to LCD2, and T1), and are the hardest-to-drive headphones I own.


Nice to hear. By the way everyone raves about the Jot, I'm surprised it's not more expensive. It's nice to know that companies like Schiit can still make a profit and still put out a great product.


----------



## ThanatosVI

housekrl said:


> Nice to hear. By the way everyone raves about the Jot, I'm surprised it's not more expensive. It's nice to know that companies like Schiit can still make a profit and still put out a great product.


Value for money is amazing with Schiit products.


----------



## tcellguy

Just sharing a positive support experience. My Jotunheim developed a potentiometer issue after 2+ years of extensive use. Schiit fixed the amp and shipped it back in a 1 week turn around time. A+ service.


----------



## tcellguy

Wes S said:


> Hey all fellow Jotunheim owners!  I have had mine out of rotation for several years, and just recently put it back into the mix.  I have to say, this amp rocks, and scales really well when fed balanced in from my Gumby.  This amp is so versatile, and is one I will never get rid of.  The bass and dynamics kick like a mule, when paired with the Gumby and ZMF Ori (balanced in & balanced out), and it is a very fun listen with some good Electronica.
> 
> Happy Friday, and Happy Listening!


I think the Jotunheim is particularly great with the Atticus. It makes the bass even meatier


----------



## genck

tcellguy said:


> Just sharing a positive support experience. My Jotunheim developed a potentiometer issue after 2+ years of extensive use. Schiit fixed the amp and shipped it back in a 1 week turn around time. A+ service.


What was the issue exactly? Just curious


----------



## tcellguy

genck said:


> What was the issue exactly? Just curious


Not sure what the failure mode was. The pot developed what felt like a notch around 9AM and was associated with an exaggerated R > L sound imbalance. They replace the pot and now its back to dead center balance.


----------



## Dana Reed

tcellguy said:


> Not sure what the failure mode was. The pot developed what felt like a notch around 9AM and was associated with an exaggerated R > L sound imbalance. They replace the pot and now its back to dead center balance.


I also had an issue after 1.5 years where I started hearing a buzz and what appeared to be a grounding issue.   Fixed under warranty in about a week.  (Replaced the RCA jacks and solidified ground/chassis connection was what the repair indicated)


----------



## m usicguy

gain stage????

does the lower gain stage sound better  to about 4-5 o-clock  or got to max gain stage.  

i think the max gain stage has more compression?????

m usicguy


----------



## Ahmed Rehan

I've read that there were more than one revision of the Jotunheim, with the newer one(s) being slightly warmer. Is this confirmied or just a rumor? Is there a way to find out which revision mine is? (I have a used black unit and never tried another jot)


----------



## MtnMan307 (Jun 9, 2020)

I just got the new Modius DAC yesterday after only ever owning the Modi Multibit.

Modius kicks ass with the Jotunheim!  It really shows what the amp is capable of IMO.  I had never tried my Jot with the balanced inputs or with any DAC besides Modi Multibit and I'm glad I bought the Modius.

The detail and resolution is insane.  The overall sound signature is very exciting.  All kinds of energy.


----------



## senorx12562

Ahmed Rehan said:


> I've read that there were more than one revision of the Jotunheim, with the newer one(s) being slightly warmer. Is this confirmied or just a rumor? Is there a way to find out which revision mine is? (I have a used black unit and never tried another jot)



I would treat it as a rumor without any confirmation from the manufacturer, and afaik Schiit has not done so. I just enjoy mine and don't worry whether there are other versions and if so which mine is. Since you already own it it seems like this would be the best course of action.


----------



## Ahmed Rehan

senorx12562 said:


> I would treat it as a rumor without any confirmation from the manufacturer, and afaik Schiit has not done so. I just enjoy mine and don't worry whether there are other versions and if so which mine is. Since you already own it it seems like this would be the best course of action.



Every day is a cycle where I find inner peace and close all the tabs...
Only to find myself back at it 30 minutes later.


----------



## Ahmed Rehan

I'm like 95% sure swapping from low gain to high gain (on a SingleEnded hd600) and adjusting volume increases the warmness / that low frequency that kind of muffles the rest of the sound.
Did anyone else notice this (or can confirm it's impossible, unless I have a damaged unit)?


----------



## blackdragon87

MtnMan307 said:


> I just got the new Modius DAC yesterday after only ever owning the Modi Multibit.
> 
> Modius kicks ass with the Jotunheim!  It really shows what the amp is capable of IMO.  I had never tried my Jot with the balanced inputs or with any DAC besides Modi Multibit and I'm glad I bought the Modius.
> 
> The detail and resolution is insane.  The overall sound signature is very exciting.  All kinds of energy.



Good to know. About to order a modius to pair with my incoming jot multibit


----------



## paulybatz

blackdragon87 said:


> Good to know. About to order a modius to pair with my incoming jot multibit



It’s better than the onboard DAC?


----------



## blackdragon87

paulybatz said:


> It’s better than the onboard DAC?



I am not sure haven't received it. Curious about it tho


----------



## Sonic Defender

Yes the onboard DAC measures quite poorly actually according to ASR and the issues can actually creep into the audible, but even if so, likely rather minor. It makes no sense to have the onboard when as long as you have room the Modius will be a fantastic DAC. The Modius measures quite well.


----------



## GrussGott

paulybatz said:


> It’s better than the onboard DAC?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And even for us subjectivists who couldn't give 2 schiits about measurements  - _because science measurements explains the ear's observations, not the other way around_, and most are inherently flawed.  That said, @Sonic Defender is right: Schiit's external DACs sound better than their on-board dacs, especially the multi-bit dacs like the Modi Multibit.

I've got a Modius on the way and will be excited to ear-test it SE & Bal, and all inputs with the Jot and against the MM!


----------



## paulybatz

GrussGott said:


> And even for us subjectivists who couldn't give 2 schiits about measurements  - _because science measurements explains the ear's observations, not the other way around_, and most are inherently flawed.  That said, @Sonic Defender is right: Schiit's external DACs sound better than their on-board dacs, especially the multi-bit dacs like the Modi Multibit.
> 
> I've got a Modius on the way and will be excited to ear-test it SE & Bal, and all inputs with the Jot and against the MM!


Keep me posted. Trying to find all of the chinks in the chain


----------



## Sonic Defender

Measurements matter and so does the subjective experience, both are important and only a fool would actually not care about measurements to one extent or another. Schiit elevated their game considerably when they responded to the critiques that ASR reviews and the community brought out. It was good and people should be grateful. I agree that measurements of things that are inaudible don't matter much, but the point is that manufacturers need to pay attention to fundamentals of good design and Schiit is clearly very capable of world class engineering and design. I am extremely glad for the objectivist measurement crowd and for the wonderfully enthusiastic subjective crowd, it really isn't an either or type of thing. I have a foot in both worlds and I am very happy with that arrangement.


----------



## paulybatz

I think it would have been awesome to be able to put this DAC in my JOT to not deal with cabling etc


----------



## showme99

MtnMan307 said:


> I just got the new Modius DAC yesterday after only ever owning the Modi Multibit.
> 
> Modius kicks ass with the Jotunheim!  It really shows what the amp is capable of IMO.  I had never tried my Jot with the balanced inputs or with any DAC besides Modi Multibit and I'm glad I bought the Modius.
> 
> The detail and resolution is insane.  The overall sound signature is very exciting.  All kinds of energy.


How does the detail retrieval of the Modius compare to that of the Modi Multibit?


----------



## GrussGott (Jul 13, 2020)

Sonic Defender said:


> *only a fool *would actually not care about measurements ... I have a foot in both worlds and* I am very happy *with that arrangement.


So those who disagree are unhappy fools?  Wow, pretty _small_ thing to say - no wonder you care so much about measurements ...


----------



## Sonic Defender

GrussGott said:


> So those who disagree are unhappy fools?  Wow, pretty _small_ thing to say - no wonder you care so much about measurements ...


Not a full quote, I did say those who don't care about measurements to one extent or another would be foolish. I also did not say they would be unhappy. I expect even somebody such as yourself who clearly has a strong opinion on the subject would care about measurements to a very small extent, hence not a fool. Hope that helps to clarify.


----------



## MtnMan307

showme99 said:


> How does the detail retrieval of the Modius compare to that of the Modi Multibit?


Modius is a lot more resolving. I was surprised.


----------



## showme99

MtnMan307 said:


> Modius is a lot more resolving. I was surprised.


Interesting. I'm currently using a Modi Multibit with my Jotunheim. I was planning on upgrading to the Bifrost 2 at some point, but the Modius seems like a much more affordable alternative.


----------



## senorx12562

MtnMan307 said:


> Modius is a lot more resolving. I was surprised.


Absolute resolution/detail retrieval has never really been a particular strength of the Modi Multibit, or lower-priced r2r dacs in general. I guess I am surprised that you are surprised.


----------



## MtnMan307

showme99 said:


> Interesting. I'm currently using a Modi Multibit with my Jotunheim. I was planning on upgrading to the Bifrost 2 at some point, but the Modius seems like a much more affordable alternative.


I ended up getting the Bifrost 2 on B-stock. I really like it but the Modius is a great DAC. Especially for 200 bucks.


----------



## MtnMan307

senorx12562 said:


> Absolute resolution/detail retrieval has never really been a particular strength of the Modi Multibit, or lower-priced r2r dacs in general. I guess I am surprised that you are surprised.


I had read that the Modius was more resolving. I just didn’t expect it to blow away the MM in resolution and fine detail.


----------



## GrussGott (Jul 13, 2020)

MtnMan307 said:


> I had read that the Modius was more resolving. I just didn’t expect it to blow away the MM in resolution and fine detail.


I'd be interested in hearing your ongoing comparo - I've got the BF2 on my list, but thought I'd spend some time with the Modius before making a decision.  (I've also got a 2017 MM with a firmware update chip on the way, so I'll be testing that too)

Sometimes for me more resolution/detail isn't a better listening experience: In listening to many setups I've found that I don't really like "high resolution" for relaxed listening - it's great for critical listening, but not good for a session; just my preference though of course.  I like the MM/Jot combo as the MM seems to calm down the Jot, so curious to see what happens with the new MM firmware/Jot and then then the modius/Jot.

I've read that on the modius balanced is better than SE outputs and power can make a difference, i.e., using the USB adapter even if you're using USB input and/or using the power adapter in the USB input port if you're using other input like SPDIF (which I'll also test via an Eitr!)


----------



## blackdragon87

showme99 said:


> How does the detail retrieval of the Modius compare to that of the Modi Multibit?



curious about this as well


----------



## ftlaudHP

Sent back my modi/heresy stack. Upgraded to the modius /jotunheim stack. I may add the Lyr3 in the future when I want something new and tube roll. Going to be using the balanced ports. Still need to get a HP xlr cable. I had a hard time dedciding. I was originally going to get Asgard 3, but wanted a balanced headphone jack and didn't want to run RCA between DAC/AMP. Asgard 3 seems like a great deal though. IMHO Jotunheim as double thr cost is less so IMHO. Gotta pay to play for balanced. I can't wait to try out the difference. Also having more power for reserve is never a bad thing. I would rather run on low gain if and when possible. The Heresy had just enough power with minimal reserve on power hungry headphones. I was on high gain at around 2:30 for max listening volume. Around 12 was normal listening. I could definitely hear slight background noise after 12. The A90 was also an option with either modi or modius combo. Actually prefer the front layout of the A90, but volume knob seemed short from photos. Also I like having a matching stack (OCD} if possible. I also like supporting local businesses when I can. Will post back my opinion. Black color has a slight delay.


----------



## John Q Lin

I have a grace design m903, and I'm thinking about getting the Jotunheim. I'm not sure if it's a upgrade, I don't have experence with any high end schiit.


----------



## GrussGott

John Q Lin said:


> I have a grace design m903, and I'm thinking about getting the Jotunheim. I'm not sure if it's a upgrade, I don't have experence with any high end schiit.


Probably a side-grade


----------



## John Q Lin

GrussGott said:


> Probably a side-grade


I wonder how does the dac in the Jotunheim compare, I really like the grace dac.


----------



## GrussGott

John Q Lin said:


> I wonder how does the dac in the Jotunheim compare, I really like the grace dac.


You're always better off with an external schiit dac, especially now that the modius is out.  For $400 a modius/magnius stack probably sounds damn good.


----------



## nahpungnome (Aug 27, 2020)

Hey everyone, been using my Jot and Bifrost MB for almost 3 years.  Yesterday I decided to use the pre out to go to my Onkyo M504 so I could have volume control from my desk instead of having to walk over to my rack.  I previously had the matching P304 hooked up, but really only had my Bifrost hooked up to it with a Y splitter so I wasn't really using the preamp for anything in particular.

I noticed that after maybe 30 minutes that my Jot got REALLY hot.  When using just the headphone out on the Jot, it doesn't get as hot, but as soon as I use my M504, the amp gets really hot so I'm thinking it has something to do with using the Jot as a pre amp that's causing this excessive heat.

The volume knob is in the same position using it as an amp or pre amp.  I'm not using the headphone out and the amp at the same time to output anything, it's one or the other.   I'm going to do some more testing to make sure that it's directly related to the pre out this morning.  As soon as I felt the hot Jot, I put fans on it and it settled down, but I don't want to have to run fans to use my Jot as a pre amp.

Anyone else run into this issue?

Edit: 

Volume knob is a little past 9 o'clock and I used my infrared thermometer on various spots on top of the Jot.

1. A couple of  hours with Jot as head amp + Elears: 101.4 F  (I assume given the amount of time, this is a stable temp with this configuration since I was listening from 8 AM this morning).

2. I let it sit for a bit, maybe 10 mins before using it as a preamp.  Using it as a pre amp into my M504 + HE6se for about 30 mins and the hottest spot on the top is already 103.8 F

Anyone think this is something I should worry about?


----------



## tincanear (Sep 19, 2020)

nahpungnome said:


> Hey everyone, been using my Jot and Bifrost MB for almost 3 years.  Yesterday I decided to use the pre out to go to my Onkyo M504 so I could have volume control from my desk instead of having to walk over to my rack.  I previously had the matching P304 hooked up, but really only had my Bifrost hooked up to it with a Y splitter so I wasn't really using the preamp for anything in particular.
> 
> I noticed that after maybe 30 minutes that my Jot got REALLY hot.  When using just the headphone out on the Jot, it doesn't get as hot, but as soon as I use my M504, the amp gets really hot so I'm thinking it has something to do with using the Jot as a pre amp that's causing this excessive heat.
> 
> ...


(just realized, after responding, that this was posted several weeks ago, nevertheless, here are my thoughts)

provided that your room temp isn't super cold, like 45 F (implying a 55 F rise above ambient), those temps should be OK.

what is the current room temperature?

for reference, in a 75 F room, Asgard 2 (on 24/7 for over a year now) runs at about 104 F on the outside of the enclosure left side (above the transformer area), and about 130 F when using an IR thermo to measure the PCB (printed circuit board) thru to top vent holes.

if it sounds distorted or strange, smells funny, or emitting smoke, then you should shut it down and contact Schiit for service.


----------



## nahpungnome

tincanear said:


> (just realized, after responding, that this was posted several weeks ago, nevertheless, here are my thoughts)
> 
> provided that your room temp isn't super cold, like 45 F (implying a 55 F rise above ambient), those temps should be OK.
> 
> ...


Yeah I don't smell anything funny, it just seems weird to me that using it as a preamp makes it hotter than as an amp.  In any case I haven't run into any issues.  Was just curious but anybody else had the same experience.  Thanks.


----------



## rkw

nahpungnome said:


> it just seems weird to me that using it as a preamp makes it hotter than as an amp.


I've used my Jotunheim as a preamp to powered speakers and to a power amp, and never noticed it more than warm. An experiment to try is to run preamp out from the Jot into input of your P304. If it also gets hot then I would suspect an issue with your Jot.

All outputs on Jotunheim are active all the time. See if there's any difference if your headphones are plugged in while running it as a preamp.


----------



## OneBoot

Hey all, been perusing the crazy number of pages on this topic after deciding on the Jotunheim Multibit DAC/Amp combo. 
I'm new to the audiophile world, only owning a pair of Campfire IOs that I bought in March of this year. Currently, I run the IO off my Samsung Galaxy S8, was subscribed to Amazon Music HD for a couple months, but decided against supporting them.

Now, I'm moving into the crazy land of buying an entry level system for home enjoyment (new job / birthday gift), while contemplating a complete switch to the Apple ecosystem (iPhone, iMac, etc.), and purchasing Hi-Res audio online. It seems like Jotunheim would be a good entry level, coming from nothing, while allowing me room to purchase over ear headphones in the future. My musical tastes range from Florence and the Machine to Slipknot. I love detail retrieval, and appreciate high-end frequency as much as low-end rumble.

Does the following setup sound alright?
Jotunheim with Multibit DAC card.
New iMac (don't own yet)
USB connection to DAC (do I need a special USB cable with a separate ground to ensure balanced output from the amp?)
Balanced male XLR to MMCX cable from http://www.mimic-cables.com
Campfire Audio IO IEM

I did notice the Jotunheim has a limit of 24 bit / 192 kHz audio input. I know some content goes well beyond that limit. Should this be a concern?


----------



## rkw

OneBoot said:


> I did notice the Jotunheim has a limit of 24 bit / 192 kHz audio input. I know some content goes well beyond that limit. Should this be a concern?


Do you currently own or plan to purchase recordings that are higher than 24/192 resolution? If yes, then of course you wouldn't be able to play them (without downsampling first). Schiit doesn't currently sell any products that support above 24/192. The obvious solution is not to purchase recordings above 24/192 resolution, and it is questionable whether higher resolution is audible anyway.


----------



## Dana Reed

OneBoot said:


> Hey all, been perusing the crazy number of pages on this topic after deciding on the Jotunheim Multibit DAC/Amp combo.
> I'm new to the audiophile world, only owning a pair of Campfire IOs that I bought in March of this year. Currently, I run the IO off my Samsung Galaxy S8, was subscribed to Amazon Music HD for a couple months, but decided against supporting them.
> 
> Now, I'm moving into the crazy land of buying an entry level system for home enjoyment (new job / birthday gift), while contemplating a complete switch to the Apple ecosystem (iPhone, iMac, etc.), and purchasing Hi-Res audio online. It seems like Jotunheim would be a good entry level, coming from nothing, while allowing me room to purchase over ear headphones in the future. My musical tastes range from Florence and the Machine to Slipknot. I love detail retrieval, and appreciate high-end frequency as much as low-end rumble.
> ...


Welcome!
Did you already purchase the Jot with the multibit card?  If not, you could also consider the modius and magnius for the same total price (though not discrete and multibit).  You'd have more flexibility with the separate DAC and amp, for future inputs.  That said, I've had my Jotunheim for quite a while and it's been my favorite amp.  On low gain with single ended definitely quiet enough for your IEMs, but not really necessary.  Where it's great is that it can make all my over ear headphones sing.  From easy to drive Grados up to hard to drive HE6SE.  And it's seamless whether you use balanced or single ended input or output.

I haven't had an iMac since the original one in '98, but they look really nice.  you could save a few bucks getting a mac mini, and a cheap monitor.  I have a mac mini running roon and no monitor at all.  I just remote into it or hook it up to my TV if I have to do some maintenance.  Otherwise, I just use the roon app on my phone to control everything

You definitely don't need a special USB cable with a separate ground to get balanced output.  you'll get balanced output on the xlr output from any of the inputs.

I only have one pair of IEMs and no balanced cables for my SE846, but I can say that with the Jotunheim's nice pot, you can still adjust volume down to low levels without channel imbalance.  you will get quite a bit more gain with the balanced output for your IEMs, so you'll likely be even lower on the volume pot to get the same volume.
Again, getting a several watt amp for IEMs may be significant overkill.  I actually got one of these single ended adapters to attenuate the output for IEMs
http://www.garage1217.com/garage1217_diy_tube_headphone_amplifiers_012.htm

I'd not worry about higher rates than 24/192.  and after trying to compare 24/192 files that I'd sampled all the way back down to 16/44, I'd skip them all together and save some money buying stuff on CD and ripping it.


----------



## OneBoot

rkw said:


> Do you currently own or plan to purchase recordings that are higher than 24/192 resolution? If yes, then of course you wouldn't be able to play them (without downsampling first). Schiit doesn't currently sell any products that support above 24/192. The obvious solution is not to purchase recordings above 24/192 resolution, and it is questionable whether higher resolution is audible anyway.


Looking at retailers where I would be buying the music from, 24 bit is the limit for my interests currently. So this device should be a good entry point. It's good to get perspective on what I truly "need". Thank you!


----------



## davesa

I agree with the 3 posts above, and would add that you can try some hi-res streaming with Qobuz, they also offer hi-res files for sale if you decide to add them permanently. One nice thing on the Jot vs. the modius / magnius combo is that the power supply is integrated, so the Jot gives you a nice tight package. If you upgrade in the future you can sell the Jot, or move it to another area ( work vs. home... bedroom.. etc.. ). If you find you like the sound of the multibit card, a Yggdrasil may be in your future  eventually


----------



## OneBoot

Dana Reed said:


> Welcome!
> Did you already purchase the Jot with the multibit card?  If not, you could also consider the modius and magnius for the same total price (though not discrete and multibit).  You'd have more flexibility with the separate DAC and amp, for future inputs.  That said, I've had my Jotunheim for quite a while and it's been my favorite amp.  On low gain with single ended definitely quiet enough for your IEMs, but not really necessary.  Where it's great is that it can make all my over ear headphones sing.  From easy to drive Grados up to hard to drive HE6SE.  And it's seamless whether you use balanced or single ended input or output.
> 
> I haven't had an iMac since the original one in '98, but they look really nice.  you could save a few bucks getting a mac mini, and a cheap monitor.  I have a mac mini running roon and no monitor at all.  I just remote into it or hook it up to my TV if I have to do some maintenance.  Otherwise, I just use the roon app on my phone to control everything
> ...


I have not purchased anything yet, so my options are still flexible. Thank you for your thorough response! I realize my current IEMs are incredibly easy to drive, so this will be a bit overkill. Will I notice a difference coming from cell phone playback, though?

I was eyeballing the mac mini. I have an Asus laptop running Linux right now, and it's a bit long in the tooth (6 years old or so). It just started giving charging errors, so I'm looking for a new system, and not having battery circuitry to worry about is a plus. I'm renting a room in the Bay Area currently, so my computer is my TV  I'll have to check out the roon app!

Thanks for the confirmation regarding USB. That attenuator looks nifty, too! I think I might be leaning toward the Jotunheim, just so I can play around with over ear headphones in the future. CDs are a good idea! I trashed all my CDs over 5 years ago when I went through my "I don't need this negative music" phase. Turns out it still helps from time to time!


----------



## KenMan85

OneBoot said:


> I have not purchased anything yet, so my options are still flexible. Thank you for your thorough response! I realize my current IEMs are incredibly easy to drive, so this will be a bit overkill. Will I notice a difference coming from cell phone playback, though?
> 
> I was eyeballing the mac mini. I have an Asus laptop running Linux right now, and it's a bit long in the tooth (6 years old or so). It just started giving charging errors, so I'm looking for a new system, and not having battery circuitry to worry about is a plus. I'm renting a room in the Bay Area currently, so my computer is my TV  I'll have to check out the roon app!
> 
> Thanks for the confirmation regarding USB. That attenuator looks nifty, too! I think I might be leaning toward the Jotunheim, just so I can play around with over ear headphones in the future. CDs are a good idea! I trashed all my CDs over 5 years ago when I went through my "I don't need this negative music" phase. Turns out it still helps from time to time!


having owned alot of amps.  At this price point and for IEMS. i would probably consider something else.  The Jot is very narrow and forward and the single ended output is total crap compared to other solutions. 

I use my jot still as an amp when im gaming on pc though. 
I think the Modius with the smsl sp2000 or the DROP THX. would be better overall.  Better sounding and equally powerful out of the S.E and Balanced outputs.


----------



## KenMan85

nahpungnome said:


> Hey everyone, been using my Jot and Bifrost MB for almost 3 years.  Yesterday I decided to use the pre out to go to my Onkyo M504 so I could have volume control from my desk instead of having to walk over to my rack.  I previously had the matching P304 hooked up, but really only had my Bifrost hooked up to it with a Y splitter so I wasn't really using the preamp for anything in particular.
> 
> I noticed that after maybe 30 minutes that my Jot got REALLY hot.  When using just the headphone out on the Jot, it doesn't get as hot, but as soon as I use my M504, the amp gets really hot so I'm thinking it has something to do with using the Jot as a pre amp that's causing this excessive heat.
> 
> ...


My jot had burned up when using the outputs. Schiit however warranty repaired it for me.


----------



## Dana Reed

KenMan85 said:


> having owned alot of amps.  At this price point and for IEMS. i would probably consider something else.  The Jot is very narrow and forward and the single ended output is total crap compared to other solutions.
> 
> I use my jot still as an amp when im gaming on pc though.
> I think the Modius with the smsl sp2000 or the DROP THX. would be better overall.  Better sounding and equally powerful out of the S.E and Balanced outputs.


I have ten THX AAA 789 as well as the Jot, and I wouldn’t say there’s a big difference in the SE or Bal outputs.  The Jot is nice if you want a one box solution, even if the card DACs aren’t as good or flexible as an outboard DAC. 
but for ultimate low distortion and noise feel free to look at the thx and other options that are measured to death on ASR.com. I just don’t see huge audible benefits to sinad better than ~90 dB, especially using CD or 16/44 as source


----------



## Dana Reed

OneBoot said:


> I have not purchased anything yet, so my options are still flexible. Thank you for your thorough response! I realize my current IEMs are incredibly easy to drive, so this will be a bit overkill. Will I notice a difference coming from cell phone playback, though?
> 
> I was eyeballing the mac mini. I have an Asus laptop running Linux right now, and it's a bit long in the tooth (6 years old or so). It just started giving charging errors, so I'm looking for a new system, and not having battery circuitry to worry about is a plus. I'm renting a room in the Bay Area currently, so my computer is my TV  I'll have to check out the roon app!
> 
> Thanks for the confirmation regarding USB. That attenuator looks nifty, too! I think I might be leaning toward the Jotunheim, just so I can play around with over ear headphones in the future. CDs are a good idea! I trashed all my CDs over 5 years ago when I went through my "I don't need this negative music" phase. Turns out it still helps from time to time!


Yeah, CDs are great because you can pick up all manner of used ones for a song, and they rip just fine.
the price per watt winner from schiit though is still probably the magnius.  
again, unless you’re looking at REALLY power hungry cans, even the magni 3+ or heresy (or other brands like jds atom etc) are going to have plenty of power for almost any headphone without worrying about balanced cables
For IEMs, unless you’re going to get ear bleeding loud, a mains powered amp is going to be overkill.  I still use one, just because I like to use a nice analog volume knob


----------



## AppleheadMay

OneBoot said:


> Hey all, been perusing the crazy number of pages on this topic after deciding on the Jotunheim Multibit DAC/Amp combo.
> I'm new to the audiophile world, only owning a pair of Campfire IOs that I bought in March of this year. Currently, I run the IO off my Samsung Galaxy S8, was subscribed to Amazon Music HD for a couple months, but decided against supporting them.
> 
> Now, I'm moving into the crazy land of buying an entry level system for home enjoyment (new job / birthday gift), while contemplating a complete switch to the Apple ecosystem (iPhone, iMac, etc.), and purchasing Hi-Res audio online. It seems like Jotunheim would be a good entry level, coming from nothing, while allowing me room to purchase over ear headphones in the future. My musical tastes range from Florence and the Machine to Slipknot. I love detail retrieval, and appreciate high-end frequency as much as low-end rumble.
> ...



What I would do in your case (purely my opinion), assuming you will want to move to headphones later on (the Jot is too powerful to buy just for IEMs) and assuming you will want to upgrade/expand your system later on is:

-- for the Apple part: 
-Mac Mini: runs just as fine as an iMac and you can attach any monitor to it, a cheap one at first and you can upgrade to a big ultrawide or for example a 48 OLED later if you want. Any monitor you like.
-iPad Air 11": just the right size, latest processor and tech at a much lower price than the Pro.
iPhone 12 Mini: I used to have a 6s, now an 11 Pro Max but I'm ordering the 12 Mini. The rest is way to big to keep in a shirt/jeans pocket and haul around everywhere.
- forget Apple's services like Apple Music and aTV+, they suck. Rip your music from CDs, buy from HDTracks and/or stream from Tidal or Qobuz.

-- for the audio part:
- The Jot is a true bang for the buck device and even performs well over its price. Get one without a DAC, the multibit card is nowhere near the performance/SQ and verstility of a Bifrost.
- For the dac, get a Topping D10s. It performs just as well as the AK4490 card you can put it the Jot at the same price but once you upgrade to a better DAC (Bifrost highly recommended) you can still use it as a DD converter. Later on it  could serve for example to connect your Mac with USB to the Bifrost with coaxial for audio other than your music library. Upgrade to a Bifrost later on.
- to get your music from the Mac to the DAC use a Roon Bridge. This way you stream your music over your network instead of directly connnecting to your computer which improves SQ quite a bit. 
The cheapest option would be an RPI4 with Ropieee. Just as adequate but arguably almost as good as much more expensive devices like a StackAudio Link, Lumin U1 (mini) or Auralic Aries).
You can find what you need for that on Amazon: "Labists RPi4 kit" + "Manouii case" (or any other case without fans made from solid aluminum) + RoPieee (very easy to install). Total price should be 100 bucks.
- For music software, use Roon, there simply is no better experience. Get a free 30-day trial (plus a free Tidal/Qobuz trial) you can run from your Linux computer now and connect your IEMs to your computer just to see how it works. It's expensive though, 149 for a year or 450 lifetime but you can use it on any device without purchasing additional licences (IOS, Android, Mac, PC, Linux, a dedicated music server (NUC, Roon Nucleus, Synology NAS)). If you get the lifetime deal, after 10 years it'll have cost you 45 a year.
I can't recommend Roon enough.

Your upgrade path is simple after that without needing to replace anything: add a Bifrost and keep using your D10s, add a NUC with Roon Core or a Nucleus, get some nice headphones with a balanced cable ...

My setup (or one of them at least) for desktop is:
Mac Mini + Windows PC with LG OLED 48 CX.
Roon Nucleus -> StackAudio Link -> Schiit Bifrost 2 -> Jotunheim + Lyr 3 (this is using the USB input of the Bifrost)
I also connect my Mac via USB to a Topping D10S that connects to my Bifrost via coaxial.
My windows PC is connected via USB to a SBX G6 that connects to the Bifrost via optical.


----------



## OneBoot

AppleheadMay said:


> What I would do in your case (purely my opinion), assuming you will want to move to headphones later on (the Jot is too powerful to buy just for IEMs) and assuming you will want to upgrade/expand your system later on is:
> 
> -- for the Apple part:
> -Mac Mini: runs just as fine as an iMac and you can attach any monitor to it, a cheap one at first and you can upgrade to a big ultrawide or for example a 48 OLED later if you want. Any monitor you like.
> ...


Wow! I appreciate everyone's thorough feedback. @AppleheadMay I plan on buying some "cans" in the future, so having an amp with room to grow seems like a good idea. I've written off Apple, Spotify, Tidal, etc. for streaming. Qobuz seems to pay the artists a decent cut, so I'm open to them.

Your Roon Bridge solution seems like a great idea, if I had a house with multiple rooms. I am currently renting a room, and can't really listen to music at work, so my 11'x11' room is my space. I'm also a little confused how the Raspberry Pi would output better USB audio than the Mac? Does it have a better audio system? I'm trying to create a temporary endgame at my desk in my room.

The Roon subscription is $700 for life now :-/ Jotunheim and Bifrost 2 sound like a great duo, just feels weird to not use an internal DAC with the Jotunheim. With your Topping / Bifrost combo, does the Topping DAC clean up the signal for the BiFrost? 

I have so much to learn in this world, but I appreciate you taking the time to teach! I'm technically-minded, and pick things up quickly.

@Dana Reed are balanced connections mainly beneficial for higher impedance cans?


----------



## blackdragon87

adydula said:


> The PYST cables from Schiit are good cables....



yes, i just a pair of xlr pyst with my new bifrost 2 and impressed with them


----------



## Dana Reed

OneBoot said:


> I've written off Apple, Spotify, Tidal, etc. for streaming. Qobuz seems to pay the artists a decent cut, so I'm open to them


While Qobuz seems really nice, and has both lossless and integration with Roon, I'm still using Spotify for streaming stuff, and Roon for things I own.  I have a family Spotify account so all 4 of us can listen to different stuff on it, and my family couldn't give a crap about Roon integration.  But if you don't have that consideration, then Qobuz is probably fine


OneBoot said:


> I'm also a little confused how the Raspberry Pi would output better USB audio than the Mac?


For a one endpoint solution, it may not really help.  For Roon they do suggest separating the core, endpoint, and UI functions into separate hardware.  I do have an Allo Pi setup as a Roon endpoint on one of my rooms, but can't say I notice a huge difference between that and USB direct to the core Mac mini.


OneBoot said:


> The Roon subscription is $700 for life now :-/


For a single endpoint system, $700 for Roon is a bit steep.  I'm using it with several different endpoints throughout the LAN in my house.  Some other benefits it gives that you won't get with iTunes is the advanced DSP options, and confirmation of a clean signal chain.  Jriver can also do some of this, but in the end I found I liked Roon better, so sprung for the lifetime (was $500 at that time).


OneBoot said:


> @Dana Reed are balanced connections mainly beneficial for higher impedance cans?


I'd say that the balanced is mainly useful for high current planar magnetic headphones.  Any desktop amp will generate enough voltage for high impedance cans like 300 and 600 Ohm Sennheiser and Beyerdynamic. It's more the current required for 30-100 Ohm planars that a solid state balanced amp with help with those amps/Watts.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Keep in mind that Tidal has more choice in the US, Qobuz in the EU.

For SQ it's better to separate your DAC from the computer as computers generate noise and have have timing issues. A Mac less so than a PC, a bridge (like the RPI4 with Ropieee is dedicated to audio only. There's a lot to read about that on the Roon fora.
I also don't use multiroom and have my Stack Auio Link bridge right next to my Bifrost DAC just to improve SQ. 

The internal multibit DAC in the Jot isn't that good and nowhere near the quality of a Bifrost. It costs 200 I believe and the internal AK4490 sounded better to me. That and the fact it can serve another purpose later on is why I recommend the D10s (its coax and optical are outputs, not inputs). It won't clean up anything like a bridge would.
But if you want to go for a Bifrost right away you wouldn't need it unless you need a DD converter for some other purpose like me.

Roon is expensive indeed but I still recommend to try it out with a Qobuz/Tidal subscription as well to get to know it's ease of use and see how it changes the way you listen to music and lets you discover music.
And the more years you've used it the less expensive it becomes. It costs about the same as the Bifrost and I consider it an equally important part of your setup.

Balanced has about double the output power and most people find it sounds better as well. So do I. For your IEM's trhe single-ended output power is already to much but for higher impedance cans (some Senns for example) and difficult to drive cans (some planars) it's recommended.


----------



## AppleheadMay

blackdragon87 said:


> yes, i just a pair of xlr pyst with my new bifrost 2 and impressed with them



Same here, Pyst XLR to Jot, RCA to Lyr. Nice and short if you stack them.


----------



## OneBoot (Oct 25, 2020)

AppleheadMay said:


> Keep in mind that Tidal has more choice in the US, Qobuz in the EU.
> 
> For SQ it's better to separate your DAC from the computer as computers generate noise and have have timing issues. A Mac less so than a PC, a bridge (like the RPI4 with Ropieee is dedicated to audio only. There's a lot to read about that on the Roon fora.
> I also don't use multiroom and have my Stack Auio Link bridge right next to my Bifrost DAC just to improve SQ.
> ...


Alright, y'all got me in the deep end now. Jotunheim with Bifrost is where I'm leaning (with PYST interconnects and USB). Their dimensions aren't identical, so it will be a ramped schiit-stack, but should still look pleasant 

As for phones and cables, I'm planning on going with Hart Audio MMCX to 4 pin XLR. I will continue to love my Campfire IO IEMs, but started looking at Planar Magnetic systems. Would the Aeon RT Closed be a good choice? I heard the stock cables are microphonic, so would need the cables from Hart Audio as well. In the non-planar realm, I saw the Massdrop x Meze 99 Noir. They're only 32 ohm, so probably wouldn't use the potential of the amp (hence the draw to planar), but these wouldn't hurt the budget as much. Any thoughts? I like bass, warmth, but also detail retrieval and femal vocals. I could go Aeon open as well, but I've never given open a shot.


----------



## AppleheadMay

OneBoot said:


> Alright, y'all got me in the deep end now. Jotunheim with Bifrost is where I'm leaning (with PYST interconnects and USB). Their dimensions aren't identical, so it will be a ramped schiit-stack, but should still look pleasant
> 
> As for phones and cables, I'm planning on going with Hart Audio MMCX to 4 pin XLR. I will continue to love my Campfire IO IEMs, but started looking at Planar Magnetic systems. Would the Aeon RT Closed be a good choice? I heard the stock cables are microphonic, so would need the cables from Hart Audio as well. In the non-planar realm, I saw the Massdrop x Meze 99 Noir. They're only 32 ohm, so probably wouldn't use the potential of the amp (hence the draw to planar), but these wouldn't hurt the budget as much. Any thoughts? I like bass, warmth, but also detail retrieval and femal vocals. I could go Aeon open as well, but I've never given open a shot.




Dimensions not identical?








As for headphones: so many choices.
I don't know the Aeon and the Meze.
My choice would be a Masssdrop-Sennheiser HD6XX (same as HD650) and for planars I am partial to Audeze, Abyss and Hifiman. I'd simply start with a Massdrop-Hifiman HE4XX. 
But that's me ...


My desk and full system:










as you can see I am a professional photographer.


----------



## torifile

I know this is the Jotunheim thread but an alternate setup from the Bifrost/Jotunheim is worth mentioning - the Modius/Asgard 3 pairing. It’s considerably cheaper and might be good enough for the cost savings.


----------



## Dana Reed

OneBoot said:


> Alright, y'all got me in the deep end now. Jotunheim with Bifrost is where I'm leaning (with PYST interconnects and USB). Their dimensions aren't identical, so it will be a ramped schiit-stack, but should still look pleasant
> 
> As for phones and cables, I'm planning on going with Hart Audio MMCX to 4 pin XLR. I will continue to love my Campfire IO IEMs, but started looking at Planar Magnetic systems. Would the Aeon RT Closed be a good choice? I heard the stock cables are microphonic, so would need the cables from Hart Audio as well. In the non-planar realm, I saw the Massdrop x Meze 99 Noir. They're only 32 ohm, so probably wouldn't use the potential of the amp (hence the draw to planar), but these wouldn't hurt the budget as much. Any thoughts? I like bass, warmth, but also detail retrieval and femal vocals. I could go Aeon open as well, but I've never given open a shot.


I have the original tuning Aeon flow closed, and I like them, but not as much as my LCD-XC.  I would recommend trying a pair of open backed if your listening situation allows.  I’ve never found a closed pair that I’ve liked as much as open.


----------



## blackdragon87

OneBoot said:


> Alright, y'all got me in the deep end now. Jotunheim with Bifrost is where I'm leaning (with PYST interconnects and USB). Their dimensions aren't identical, so it will be a ramped schiit-stack, but should still look pleasant
> 
> As for phones and cables, I'm planning on going with Hart Audio MMCX to 4 pin XLR. I will continue to love my Campfire IO IEMs, but started looking at Planar Magnetic systems. Would the Aeon RT Closed be a good choice? I heard the stock cables are microphonic, so would need the cables from Hart Audio as well. In the non-planar realm, I saw the Massdrop x Meze 99 Noir. They're only 32 ohm, so probably wouldn't use the potential of the amp (hence the draw to planar), but these wouldn't hurt the budget as much. Any thoughts? I like bass, warmth, but also detail retrieval and femal vocals. I could go Aeon open as well, but I've never given open a shot.



enjoy your new jot. i quite like mine paied with my new new bf2


----------



## OneBoot

AppleheadMay said:


> Dimensions not identical?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


lol. Quite the setup! Schiit's site said that the BF2 is 0.75" deeper than the Jot. Probably negligible, especially when stacking the Jot on the BF2. 

Thank you for the headphone recs! I'm pretty sold on the Aeon RT Open, which is weird. It's such a polarizing device (just like the Campfire IO, my first medium end IEM). Those were $300, and the Aeon RT Open are $500. Heard good things about the Aeon 2 Open, and they're $900 but come with a "free" upgraded XLR cable that's normally $200. In my head, I say I want end game, but I know that's not how hobbies like this work  

I live on the west coast, so I appreciate supporting relatively local business, and quality at that. I also seem to have goldilocks taste. Good bass, with good staging and good detail / dynamics. Not ready to drop over a grand on headphones, yet. Really, I want something that sounds good with my tastes, while giving a different experience than the IO.

@Dana Reed thank you for the feedback on the OG Aeon. I'll probably go with an open back style for my listening pleasure.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Schiit's site is wrong, I just measured them and they're both exactly 6" deep.
So is the Lyr in case you want to add some tube flavor.  

Yep, way too many choices in headphones, you need to find what you like.
All the ones I have now are phones I'm going to keep, I only want to add a high-end planar, either the Abyss, LCD-4 or Susvara.
But seen their price I'd need to audition them first. I know a shop in the center of Amsterdam where they have all three on demo.
Apart from being a 600km drive back and forth I absolutely hate big cities so I don't think I'll ever be going there.


----------



## Dana Reed

OneBoot said:


> lol. Quite the setup! Schiit's site said that the BF2 is 0.75" deeper than the Jot. Probably negligible, especially when stacking the Jot on the BF2.
> 
> Thank you for the headphone recs! I'm pretty sold on the Aeon RT Open, which is weird. It's such a polarizing device (just like the Campfire IO, my first medium end IEM). Those were $300, and the Aeon RT Open are $500. Heard good things about the Aeon 2 Open, and they're $900 but come with a "free" upgraded XLR cable that's normally $200. In my head, I say I want end game, but I know that's not how hobbies like this work
> 
> ...


I haven’t heard the Aeon open, RT or otherwise.  But I’ve heard good things about both the Aeon 2 and RT.  I mostly use the closed ones at work for a mix of music and conference calls.  It would be interesting to compare the newer Aeon opens to my LCD2 and HE6SE, but I feel like after getting the HD800s and Elex this year, I should have an intervention
In any case, the BF2 and Jot should do great with these.  My Jot is hooked up to an Yggy GS, and I love that.


----------



## torifile (Oct 26, 2020)

Funny. Jotunheim is misspelled in my sound controls and my USB system info panel. Anyone else have this happen?


----------



## buencamino

torifile said:


> I know this is the Jotunheim thread but an alternate setup from the Bifrost/Jotunheim is worth mentioning - the Modius/Asgard 3 pairing. It’s considerably cheaper and might be good enough for the cost savings.



why not just buy an asgard with the DAC module and not buy the modius?


----------



## ev666il

The internal DAC card tends to be more susceptible to noisy USB outputs, IME. If memory serves, it also provides a lower output voltage compared to an external DAC (and shares the power supply with the amplifier, which is sub optimal compared to having its own.)


----------



## buencamino (Oct 27, 2020)

so it's better to have separate dac and amps? by the way can you connect active speakers in this kind of combination of modius/asgard 3? Do you connect the speakers through the balance out of the modius? How do you control the volume of the speakers there's no volume knob on the modius..


----------



## ev666il

buencamino said:


> so it's better to have separate dac and amps?



In my experience, it is.

Although I have to say that I owned an Asgard 3 with the MB DAC card and it was really good for its price point.


----------



## OneBoot

So I ordered the Jot with a Modius to start out. Also ordered the Dan Clark Aeon 2 Closed (came with XLR VIVO cables for free).

The Aeon 2's were delivered today, hopefully get the rest this week  Though the patch cables may take a bit from Hart Audio. It's all coming together!


----------



## buencamino

OneBoot said:


> So I ordered the Jot with a Modius to start out. Also ordered the Dan Clark Aeon 2 Closed (came with XLR VIVO cables for free).
> 
> The Aeon 2's were delivered today, hopefully get the rest this week  Though the patch cables may take a bit from Hart Audio. It's all coming together!



Cool man, I was also eyeing the aeon2 closed. Does it crack a bit on loud trebles or bass? I tried it with an ifi zen dac and it sort of cracked or distorted during those times..


----------



## OneBoot

buencamino said:


> Cool man, I was also eyeing the aeon2 closed. Does it crack a bit on loud trebles or bass? I tried it with an ifi zen dac and it sort of cracked or distorted during those times..


I don't know yet. I just got home and am staring at them hanging from my pegboard. I don't have an external DAC nor amp to power these until the Schiit stack gets here. Hopefully a glorious evening!


----------



## EricDH

OneBoot said:


> So I ordered the Jot with a Modius to start out. Also ordered the Dan Clark Aeon 2 Closed (came with XLR VIVO cables for free).
> 
> The Aeon 2's were delivered today, hopefully get the rest this week  Though the patch cables may take a bit from Hart Audio. It's all coming together!


I am very very happy with the combination Jotunheim and Aeon 2 Closed.


----------



## adydula

Question:

What would like to see if Schiit were to come out the next turn of the crank for a Jotenheim?/

Alex


----------



## ev666il

adydula said:


> What would like to see if Schiit were to come out the next turn of the crank for a Jotenheim?/



Nexus + Continuity, of course


----------



## dr cornelius




----------



## adydula

Saw that...but no definitive answer...??


----------



## ev666il

The usual, "we're always working on something." I'm sure a new Jotunheim is among the 20+ projects Jason mentioned—but as to if and when, who knows.


----------



## rkw

adydula said:


> What would like to see if Schiit were to come out the next turn of the crank for a Jotenheim?/


There are clear areas for improvement when using Jotunheim as a preamp for speakers. Currently both headphone and preamp outputs are always active all the time. Jason acknowledged that it would help to have a switch for selecting between the two. A remote control would also be useful for using Jotunheim as a speaker preamp.


----------



## Dana Reed

rkw said:


> There are clear areas for improvement when using Jotunheim as a preamp for speakers. Currently both headphone and preamp outputs are always active all the time. Jason acknowledged that it would help to have a switch for selecting between the two. A remote control would also be useful for using Jotunheim as a speaker preamp.


Like a mini Ragnarok!


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## adydula (Nov 7, 2020)

Well the original Jotenheim is still one of my favorite all time amps....

With the HEDD Headphones and Meze Emperyeans the amp is excellent.....I prefer my Focal Clears with the Lyr 3!

So far its:

1. switch for preamp
2. Nexus
3. Continuity
4. More Power
5. Similar Price
6. Remote Control
7. Black + Silver
8. Same Form Factor


Any more wishes???

Alex


----------



## ev666il

It has to come in black and in the same form factor as the original


----------



## blackdragon87

definately excited for a possible new jot 2


----------



## blackdragon87

ev666il said:


> It has to come in black and in the same form factor as the original



yes need same form factor to stack with my bf 2


----------



## AppleheadMay

I surely wouldn't mind the power button on the front. 
I appreciate Schiit trying to be different but a power button on the back is just plain annoying.

I couldn't care less for a remote, the remote on the BF is pretty useless to me, they could have put that invert switch on the back of the unit.
I don't use the remotes on my other audio gear either, nothing beats a nice feeling switch or volume knob.
Remotes are for a home theater/TV.


----------



## adydula

AppleheadMay said:


> I surely wouldn't mind the power button on the front.
> I appreciate Schiit trying to be different but a power button on the back is just plain annoying.
> 
> I couldn't care less for a remote, the remote on the BF is pretty useless to me, they could have put that invert switch on the back of the unit.
> ...


 I would not hold my breath for a front panel power switch.

Funny i review a lot of amps, costing many times more...and recently I had a $1500 Soundaware P1 amp to test some power hungry Susvaras and the power switch was on the back! The gain switch was on the back in a very awkward place. So there are other products that have the power switch in the rear. One thing Schiit has mentioned it partially to keep 110vac power from running inside the unit etc....

That said, I understand your desire...just dont think its a big deal at all....YMMV

Alex


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## ev666il

AppleheadMay said:


> I surely wouldn't mind the power button on the front.




You mean you actually switch your amp off? 

IMO a power button or switch on the front would be unsightly and would ruin the aesthetic of Schiit’s design. Appreciate some don’t care about looks so YMMV; I know I certainly do.


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## AppleheadMay

ev666il said:


> You mean you actually switch your amp off?
> 
> IMO a power button or switch on the front would be unsightly and would ruin the aesthetic of Schiit’s design. Appreciate some don’t care about looks so YMMV; I know I certainly do.



I don't see the aesthetics changing much with having three instead of two toggles .
Talking aesthetics, they could have put the toggles of the Lyr on the left side of the volume knob like with the Jot and the Bifrost could have used a similar toggle instead of that push button and a second toggle for invert instead of that IR window.
And both a third toggle for power of course.


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## adydula

Beauty is in the "eye" of the beholder!!

I can see if you have a desk and its not easy to access the back it could be a pain for you....but many other amps have a power switch in the read...the SPL Phonitor as gain slide switches in the bottom of the "heavy" amp!! And I hardly ever hear any complaints on this? 

Well we shall wait and see what the Schiit Elves dream up!!

Fingers crossed!

Alex


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## OneBoot

Rearranged my desk tonight in preparation for getting the XLR patch cables tomorrow! Excited to see how the Jot / Modius really sounds


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## genck

OneBoot said:


> Rearranged my desk tonight in preparation for getting the XLR patch cables tomorrow! Excited to see how the Jot / Modius really sounds


Lubriderm and a hammer, a winning combo.


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## OneBoot

genck said:


> Lubriderm and a hammer, a winning combo.


LMAO. I saw that after the fact, and was like "someone's definitely going to notice that".


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## cgb3

AppleheadMay said:


> I surely wouldn't mind the power button on the front.
> I appreciate Schiit trying to be different but a power button on the back is just plain annoying.
> 
> I couldn't care less for a remote, the remote on the BF is pretty useless to me, they could have put that invert switch on the back of the unit.
> ...


Jason Stoddard addressed this very issue in a recent video (YouTube) interview with a bloke from Australia. (I'd provide a link to his video, but that would take way more effort than I'm willing to expend for a net reply).

Providing a power switch on the front would require routing the high power line back to front around sensitive components. Yes, it could be done, with extra expense (for shielding), and larger enclosures.

Jason suggested a solution that I've adopted. Switched power strips. My version: https://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-I...604970363&sprefix=switched+pow,aps,167&sr=8-1


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## AppleheadMay

cgb3 said:


> Jason Stoddard addressed this very issue in a recent video (YouTube) interview with a bloke from Australia. (I'd provide a link to his video, but that would take way more effort than I'm willing to expend for a net reply).
> 
> Providing a power switch on the front would require routing the high power line back to front around sensitive components. Yes, it could be done, with extra expense (for shielding), and larger enclosures.
> 
> Jason suggested a solution that I've adopted. Switched power strips. My version: https://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-Individually-Controlled-TLP76MSGB/dp/B075NZLYB7/ref=sr_1_1?crid=KX3VHLJT33EL&dchild=1&keywords=switched+power+strip&qid=1604970363&sprefix=switched+pow,aps,167&sr=8-1



Thanks for your reply. 
I can live with the switches being on the back if there is a good reason for it, like you mention SQ, bigger enclosures and price.
But I don't find it all that handy and don't find it would ruin the aesthetics.
The power strip option wouldn't be handy for me, if I would want to hide said strip out of sight it would be harder to reach than the switches on the back. 

But the Schiit devices in that size-range are what they are: a nice form factor with good looks at a very reasonable price with a SQ that goes well beyond that price. So the power button on the back is just a little Schiit quirk I can accept and I am very happy with my triple 9" stack.


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## volly

OneBoot said:


> Rearranged my desk tonight in preparation for getting the XLR patch cables tomorrow! Excited to see how the Jot / Modius really sounds



Modius just arrived....let's go!


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## OneBoot

volly said:


> Modius just arrived....let's go!



So I just hooked up my Campfire IO to the balanced output (with the Hart cables). So far, I'm only using Youtube since I can't figure out how to do USB-OTG from my Android to my PC, and pass through to the Schiit Micro-USB. 

However. WHAT THE F%(&*?!?!?! The IEMs have more sub-bass than the Aeon's right now (the Aeon's aren't burnt in yet). This is very pleasantly surprising to me. The IO was always dubbed as lacking sub-bass, but Modius / Jot deliver the powah!!!


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## volly

OneBoot said:


> So I just hooked up my Campfire IO to the balanced output (with the Hart cables). So far, I'm only using Youtube since I can't figure out how to do USB-OTG from my Android to my PC, and pass through to the Schiit Micro-USB.
> 
> However. WHAT THE F%(&*?!?!?! The IEMs have more sub-bass than the Aeon's right now (the Aeon's aren't burnt in yet). This is very pleasantly surprising to me. The IO was always dubbed as lacking sub-bass, but Modius / Jot deliver the powah!!!


Just made a coffee....so I'll sit down and have a listen for about 15 mins!

Modius/Jot is sexy aF combo!


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## volly

OneBoot said:


> So I just hooked up my Campfire IO to the balanced output (with the Hart cables). So far, I'm only using Youtube since I can't figure out how to do USB-OTG from my Android to my PC, and pass through to the Schiit Micro-USB.
> 
> However. WHAT THE F%(&*?!?!?! The IEMs have more sub-bass than the Aeon's right now (the Aeon's aren't burnt in yet). This is very pleasantly surprising to me. The IO was always dubbed as lacking sub-bass, but Modius / Jot deliver the powah!!!


I think you'll have to run an extra micro usb cable from the Modius with the supplied power charger as the phone won't be able to power the Modius DAC alone!


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## OneBoot

volly said:


> I think you'll have to run an extra micro usb cable from the Modius with the supplied power charger as the phone won't be able to power the Modius DAC alone!


The issue is I don't have a USB-C to micro cable. I have the Samsung S8 OTG adapter, but even then, I don't have a micro to micro cable. Right now, I have the DAC hooked up to my PC running Linux (Ubuntu does full hand off to DAC without volume control, which is nice). I supplied external power as well. 

My hope was to find a way to turn the computer into a "USB cable" where I plug the phone in one port, and the DAC in the other. I don't think that will work, though, unless I modify the kernel. @AppleheadMay , this would be a perfect use for Roon. I think you may be right, lol. I have the new iPhone on preorder, and may order one of the Apple silicon macs coming out tomorrow, but Qobuz doesn't work on Linux :/


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## AppleheadMay

OneBoot said:


> The issue is I don't have a USB-C to micro cable. I have the Samsung S8 OTG adapter, but even then, I don't have a micro to micro cable. Right now, I have the DAC hooked up to my PC running Linux (Ubuntu does full hand off to DAC without volume control, which is nice). I supplied external power as well.
> 
> My hope was to find a way to turn the computer into a "USB cable" where I plug the phone in one port, and the DAC in the other. I don't think that will work, though, unless I modify the kernel. @AppleheadMay , this would be a perfect use for Roon. I think you may be right, lol. I have the new iPhone on preorder, and may order one of the Apple silicon macs coming out tomorrow, but Qobuz doesn't work on Linux :/




Tried Manjaro for a while but never tried to install Qobuz, was more busy with syncing Outlook, iCloud and Exchange among other things between MacOS, Windows and Manjaro. Fun experience though.

But if you use Roon you'd be able to play Qobuz through Roon.

I sold my 11 Pro Max and will get the new 12 Mini on Friday. Was sick and tired of hauling around that big thing that keeps falling out of a shirt pocket.

I have a Mac Mini and even if they'd bring out a ASi Mini tomorrow I would hold off 'till the second generation. Not that I'm an expert on the matter, just too scared their first gen desktop/laptop processors might be buggy.


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## OneBoot

AppleheadMay said:


> Tried Manjaro for a while but never tried to install Qobuz, was more busy with syncing Outlook, iCloud and Exchange among other things between MacOS, Windows and Manjaro. Fun experience though.
> 
> But if you use Roon you'd be able to play Qobuz through Roon.
> 
> ...


They released the Mini for $650 with my work discount. Seems too good to hold off on. My laptop is 6 years old, and pairing the Mac Mini with a monitor would save my precious desk real estate in my bedroom


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## volly

Phewww....what a combo....I will say....the Modius is a very, very capable DAC!

Striking clarity, with decent depth and imaging...actually, the imaging is crystal clear, doesn't throw the biggest and widest soundstage, more of a medium size room but who cares! It's intoxicatingly detailed and vibrant! Compared to my old Bifrost, it is quite similar rather than different, the top is sparkles and chimes but not digital sounding as much! The unison usb implementation is top notch! Doesn't sound as flat or boring compared to the USB of the Bifrost, it's almost like I'm running optical tbh! The Jot can sound harsh'ish with the Bifrost but it is completely civil with the Modius, very ballsy and playful!

Hella dark background, no noise, just music from the deep black well! I can't believe the Modius just runs off a Micro Usb cable and sounds this good....What! I have a gen 1 Modi and Fulla that is fairly noise compared to this one! Heck I've even heard EMF noise on my Bifrost from time to time!

The Elears sounds like a HD650 on crack with this setup! Not the biggest soundstage but plenty out to the sides and most importantly the middle channel is all filled out, so lots of detail between the ears! Bass is great, if not warmed up a little, I swear! The sub bass rumble is similar to my Theta DAC's but a tad cleaner and tight! Sorta like a little thunder storm rolling past your house! Really nice! The High's are so damn nice, reminds me of the high's of the Vali! For me it is perfect, it's not harsh but does feel rolled off to good effect??! I'd like to get others opinions on this but I really love the high's as it is all the good stuff with non of the bad stuff for my ears! Mid's sound fine to me, I'll have to listen to some more music but I'm never left wanting with Schiit's mids...sorta like the Sennheiser trait!

For me, the Jot is still a cracker of an amp! The built-in CAB DAC was fine but there definitely is more potential to be had when you feed the Jot!

More to come...


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## showme99 (Nov 14, 2020)

volly said:


> Modius just arrived....let's go!


When I saw this picture, I suddenly heard AC/DC's "Back in Black" playing in my head...


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## AppleheadMay (Nov 14, 2020)

showme99 said:


> When I saw this picture, I suddenly heard AC/DC's "Back in Black" playing in my head...




”Hells Bells”, the song my drunken friend managed to blow one of my Mission speakers up back in the nineties ...


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## blackdragon87

volly said:


> Phewww....what a combo....I will say....the Modius is a very, very capable DAC!
> 
> Striking clarity, with decent depth and imaging...actually, the imaging is crystal clear, doesn't throw the biggest and widest soundstage, more of a medium size room but who cares! It's intoxicatingly detailed and vibrant! Compared to my old Bifrost, it is quite similar rather than different, the top is sparkles and chimes but not digital sounding as much! The unison usb implementation is top notch! Doesn't sound as flat or boring compared to the USB of the Bifrost, it's almost like I'm running optical tbh! The Jot can sound harsh'ish with the Bifrost but it is completely civil with the Modius, very ballsy and playful!
> 
> ...



def agree,  love my jot with my bifrost 2.

if they ever release a jotunheim 2 id be very interested as well lol


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## adydula

That would be really nice:

2 + 2 = 4 !!!!

Alex


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## blackdragon87

yay jot 2 came out, ordered one in black


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## AppleheadMay

blackdragon87 said:


> yay jot 2 came out, ordered one in black



You're nuts, I'd never do that!
I ordered a silver one.


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## AppleheadMay

By the way, I asked for Schiit spam quite a few times now but never get any.
If it hadn't been for your post I wouldn't even have known.


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## blackdragon87

AppleheadMay said:


> You're nuts, I'd never do that!
> I ordered a silver one.



i have too much silver schiit already lol. have silver jot with multibit card, silver asgard 3, silver bifrost 2, silver 4490 gen 5, silver valhalla 2
time for some black schiit


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## AppleheadMay (Dec 16, 2020)

No[e, keeping it silver here, 3 piece silver Schiit, 4 piece silver Luxman, silver Rotel, Lumin, StackAudio, Topping ... can’t get enough of it.
Too bad my monitor and TV aren’t available with a silver screen. ;P


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## Mark-sf

AppleheadMay said:


> No[e, keeping it silver here, 3 piece silver Schiit, 4 piece silver Luxman, silver, rotel, Lumin, StackAudio, Topping ... can’t get enough of it.
> Too bad my monitor and TV aren’t available with a silver screen. ;P


Ditto, just placed my order and looking forward to it's pairing with BF2!


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## AppleheadMay

Hmm, when I ordered status was s"ships in 1-3 days",  now it's "7-10 days".
Why does this happen to orders I place anywhere?


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## ev666il

Well, they did just release a product right before Christmas, so I imagine demand's pretty high right now—and Jason mentioned in their recent streaming event that they are short-manned as a number of employees are out for various reasons. Guess we'll have to wait a little longer than expected with our orders but, as always, I'm sure it will be well worth it


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## AppleheadMay

Yeh sure, but if there is enough stock when I place my order I don’t see why my delivery time should change by orders placed after mine.


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## ev666il

A fair point.

More than 3 days have passed since you placed your order?


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## AppleheadMay

Nope, 1. The shipping time cahnged in that 1 day though.


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## blackdragon87

AppleheadMay said:


> Hmm, when I ordered status was s"ships in 1-3 days",  now it's "7-10 days".
> Why does this happen to orders I place anywhere?


 , same lol


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## AppleheadMay

blackdragon87 said:


> , same lol



Yeah, but that's your fault, you ordered a black one ...


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## ev666il

Heh, I ordered a black one too. When I ordered, I think it was 6-9 days but don't quote me on that.

Either way, I'd think a change to estimated shipping times would only apply to orders made afterward?


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## Mark-sf

I ordered a silver one Tuesday evening (PST) and just heard its shipping today.


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## blackdragon87 (Dec 18, 2020)

ev666il said:


> Heh, I ordered a black one too. When I ordered, I think it was 6-9 days but don't quote me on that.
> 
> Either way, I'd think a change to estimated shipping times would only apply to orders made afterward?



hmm. i wish that were true, havent received shipping yet though. i remember it saying 1 to 3 days when i ordered. oh well i can wait they are probably busy


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## AppleheadMay

Anyways ...
Anyone here that can explain in layman's terms what the changes are from the previous version except for the preamp toggle?


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## dematted

AppleheadMay said:


> Anyways ...
> Anyone here that can explain in layman's terms what the changes are from the previous version except for the preamp toggle?



Completely different discrete design.


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## AppleheadMay

Yeah, I know I read the description and FAQ, but what would that mean for the sound?
I understand the technologies have already been used in some of their other amps?


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## dematted

I mean, the previous Jotunheim was discrete too, but this has a completely different design with different components. Looks like Schiit really went all out with these components, actually. But we have to see how it sounds, of course.


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## AppleheadMay

I see the Jot2 uses the same DAC cards as the Jot, good to know.


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## ev666il (Dec 19, 2020)

@AppleheadMay Jotunheim 2 uses the same topology that was in Freya S and is in Ragnarok 2 and Jotunheim R. It’s a unique design developed by Jason that is truly differential and requires tight part matching to work. My understanding of engineering isn’t up to the task of explaining this further, unfortunately.

It also has a simplified version of the output stage found in Aegir and Asgard 3, which combats transconductance droop—apparently a common problem with Class AB amps. While the version in Aegir and Asgard achieves perfect linearity, the simplified version in Jotunheim 2 results in a slightly convex curve which, according to Jason, bestows a slightly tubey timbre to the sound. Perfect linearity would have been too inefficient and the amp’s power output would have been limited to 1W.

Jot 2 also outputs more power than the original. I haven’t checked if it measures better but I would imagine it does.


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## AppleheadMay

ev666il said:


> @AppleheadMay Jotunheim 2 uses the same topology that was in Freya S and is in Ragnarok 2 and Jotunheim R. It’s a unique design developed by Jason that is truly differential and requires tight part matching to work. My understanding of engineering isn’t up to the task of explaining this further, unfortunately.
> 
> It also has a simplified version of the output stage found in Aegir and Asgard 3, which combats transconductance droop—apparently a common problem with Class AB amps. While the version in Aegir and Asgard achieves perfect linearity, the simplified version in Jotunheim 2 results in a slightly convex curve which, according to Jason, bestows a slightly tubey timbre to the sound. Perfect linearity would have been too inefficient and the amp’s power output would have been limited to 1W.
> 
> Jot 2 also outputs more power than the original. I haven’t checked if it measures better but I would imagine it does.



Thank you for the detailed explanations. 
It looks like this will sound even better than the original Jot then, which was a fine amp.


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## ProfFalkin (Dec 19, 2020)

ev666il said:


> @AppleheadMay While the version in Aegir and Asgard achieves perfect linearity, the simplified version in Jotunheim 2 results in a slightly convex curve which, according to Jason, bestows a slightly tubey timbre to the sound.


Can you show me where Jason said anything about how it sounds? 

The part I think you are paraphrasing is where he mentions that a single ended connection's distortion profile is similar to a tube, not that it has tube timbre.


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## ev666il

ProfFalkin said:


> Can you show me where Jason said anything about how it sounds?
> 
> The part I think you are paraphrasing is where he mentions that a single ended connection's distortion profile is similar to a tube, not that it has tube timbre.



Going by memory, he said that when talking about the Jotunheim 2 in their latest streaming event.


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## Mark-sf

ProfFalkin said:


> Can you show me where Jason said anything about how it sounds?
> 
> The part I think you are paraphrasing is where he mentions that a single ended connection's distortion profile is similar to a tube, not that it has tube timbre.


Jason said it displaced his Lyr 3 in everyday system so obviously he likes it.


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## AppleheadMay

Mark-sf said:


> Jason said it displaced his Lyr 3 in everyday system so obviously he likes it.



I'm keeping both.


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## HanselPA

I woke up this morning under the believe that all the nordic deities and heroes chose me to keep this thread alive.
Come on people!!! It’s been more than a week without any post here!!
Is it Jot 2 so forgettable that you don’t know what else to post or is so amazing that you guys are immersed in the music and forgot this thread?? 
Happy New Year !!!!!!!!


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## ev666il

More like there's a dedicated thread for the Jotunheim 2


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## AppleheadMay

Mine would ship in 1-3 days, shipped in 10 days.
2 days to get to Europe, got lost for 5 days in Paris after which they found the package back and it would be delivered the next day.
Now they shipped it off to the UK where it does not have to be at all.
3 calls to FedEx already and they have no idea what’s going on.


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## HanselPA

ev666il said:


> More like there's a dedicated thread for the Jotunheim 2



You are the best!!! Thanks!!!


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## ev666il

AppleheadMay said:


> Mine would ship in 1-3 days, shipped in 10 days.
> 2 days to get to Europe, got lost for 5 days in Paris after which they found the package back and it would be delivered the next day.
> Now they shipped it off to the UK where it does not have to be at all.
> 3 calls to FedEx already and they have no idea what’s going on.



The first half of your story is about the same for me.

Mine shipped I wanna say 7 days? Thereabout.
2 days to Europe, then tracking stopped updating altogether while in France.
Package continued its journey, however, and FedEx contacted me two days ago to fill the power of attorney papers for customs clearance.
I called them yesterday and they confirmed the paperwork was fine. Today I got a notification via email with the updated scheduled delivery date, which is tomorrow.

Not sure what's going on with the UK thing; it's crazy that FedEx would have no answers for you!


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## AppleheadMay

Nope, they’re working from home, can only send an email and add it to the “dossier”.
They’ve been promising to call me with info in a few hours since Monday.


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## ev666il

Obscenely bad service.

I can say here in Hungary they weren't very snappy with the emails, but the phone customer service was really good.

A shame that it is not the case with you. I know I would be bummed to heck and back in the same situation.


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## AppleheadMay

I’s the first time I have this with FedEx, they’re usually pretty good. 
UPS is awful here, no help from customer service at all and they are the only carrier that fails to find my address over 50% of the times.
And when shipped with USPS the package is in customs for 2-6 weeks here, so that’s not an option either.


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## ev666il

I agree USPS and UPS are pretty bad.

FedEx has been good for me too, so far.


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## buson160man

AppleheadMay said:


> Dimensions not identical?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


wow nice set up I bet the luxman stuff sounds awesome.


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## paulybatz

Sold my Jot.....but loved it.


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## AppleheadMay

buson160man said:


> wow nice set up I bet the luxman stuff sounds awesome.


Yeah it does, but I can really enjoy my Schiit stack as well.


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