# Review: ZERO 24 BIT/192KHz DAC/Headphone Amp/Pre-Amp



## Penchum

[size=medium]*Review: ZERO 24 BIT/192KHz DAC/Headphone Amp/Pre-Amp*[/size]

*Review equipment listing:*
 Digital sources used: ASUS AJS8, Sony D-EJ885, Toshiba SD-KP19, Toshiba SD-5970
 Headphones used: Sennheiser HD-650, HD-580, HD-280pro, HD-212pro
 Tube Headphone Amps used: LDII++, LD MKIVse
 LDII++ with: Power Tubes - Sov 6C19PI, Driver Tubes - Mullard 6CQ6
 MKIVse with: Power Tubes – Tung-Sol JAN 5687WB, Driver Tubes – GE 5star 408A
 Stereo Amplifiers used: Sonic Super T-Amp, Pioneer SPEC4
 Music used: To many to list. Just about every type, minus Hip-Hop and Punk.
 ZERO 24 BIT/192KHz DAC/Headphone Amp/Pre-Amp

*Out of the box:*
 My package from China arrived exactly 10 business days after purchasing the Zero off of eBay for $150 + shipping using BIN. I purchased it on a Monday and they did not ship until Friday the same week. The unit arrived in a standard cardboard shipping box, covered in brown paper. After opening it, I could see the Zero unit was wrapped in a protective foam sheet and cradled between two formed poly foam inserts, which kept the unit at least 1½” away from the box interior. It came with an owner’s manual, but it was written in Chinese. Even on my best days, I can’t make out a darn thing in Chinese.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 A quick inspection of the unit proved it was indeed new, clean and made with more than reasonable build quality for its price range. It came with a standard power cord which fits nicely into its fused socket located in the rear of the Zero. A standard 1 meter optical cable still in its retail package was included. Optical in, Coaxial in and RCA out are all located on the rear of the unit. Even without an English owner’s manual, hooking up the Zero was simple.






*Initial startup:*
 I knew I wanted to run the Zero for over 200 hours initially, so I looked around and the only digital source I have with that much music on it is my ASUS Notebook which has an HD audio chip and optical out. I also hooked up my Sonic Super T-Amp to the Zero, so I could test the Zeros pre-amp capabilities during burn-in. I pressed the power button in and was rewarded with a nice blue LED for power on. I pushed the select switch for Optical and got another blue LED. These are the medium brightness LEDs, which I was thankful for. The first thing I noticed was that the RCA out was at a set level and not changed by the volume knob. Great!

*Verification of stated components (during initial startup):* 
 Now I needed to verify that the pre-amp and headphone amp are on separate circuits. Unscrewing two screws on each side and two on the back and I lifted the lid. Indeed, the headphone section is built on a separate board and is not on the same circuit as the RCA output. While I had the unit open, I checked the build quality and noticed a few items of interest. First, the Zero has a toroide transformer and individual voltage regulators. I found the Opamp (OPA2604) sitting in its socket, so it could be changed out later. Everything was nice and tidy. Capacitors and other board items were upright and straight and of the quality advertised. Wires were bundled and in their place. The boards were nice and clean and there was no sloppy soldering in sight! This speaks volumes about quality control during assembly.






*Specifications of the ZERO 24 BIT/192KHz DAC/Headphone Amp/Pre-Amp:*
 Receive chip: CS8416 
 Decode chip: AD1852
 Analog operational amplifier chip: OPA2604
 Signal to noise ratio: 120dB
 Total harmonic distortion: 0.0005%
 Dynamic range: 117dB
 Frequency response: 20Hz - 30 kHz
 Analog output level: 2V
 Input interface: 
 One independent digital fiber input
 One independent digital coaxial input
 One RCA analog signal unbalanced output
 One 6.3mm headphone signal output
 Time delay switch for ON/OFF protection circuit 
 Individual PCB design for future upgrade capability 
 Hi End components and IC (less than 1% tolerance) 
 Separate and individual voltage regulators 
 Dual Mono Amp design
 Double face PCB for reducing size
 Power Usage: Only 10 Watts

 Those are some impressive specifications for a $139.00 headphone DAC/amp/pre-amp! When I re-installed the “lid”, I noticed the only design flaw on the whole unit. When you get the lid in position and ready to screw in place, there is one screw on the left and one on the right on the back plate, that have too large of a head on them and this forces the rear lower outside edge to flare out about 1/8” from where it is supposed to be. It is really hard to notice, so I guess this is why a fix wasn’t implemented. You could fix it yourself by drilling a hole in the sides of the lid to let the screw heads protrude through. Seems like a picky thing to do though! The Zero has some nice plastic housed rubber feet which are screwed on, not stuck on! The top has ventilation grills cut into the surface toward the back and to the left. The lid is painted a flat black which seems to be the type that resists marks. With the lid re-installed, I plugged in my HD-650s and pressed the “phone” selector switch. I was rewarded with a nice green LED for phone on. The RCA output stopped without switching noise and the HD-650s started playing without switching noise. What a blessing. This is when I noticed the “phone” selector switch has “phone” labeled over the top of the button and “pre-amp” below the button. Sure enough, you can press that “phone/pre-amp” button and toggle between the headphones and RCA out (pre-amp mode), anytime you want without noise. It is obvious a chip controls the selections and prevents switching noise. This is great. I get to keep my amp hooked up and listen to headphones without unplugging anything or switching cables around.






*First listen (during initial startup):*
 After booting my notebook, I took some time to verify I had Windows Media Player set to “flat” and no boost or psychedelic crap of any type was turned on. Initially, I had noise in the signal, which turned out to be my wireless talking to my router, so I plugged in my CAT6 line and turned off the wireless. With no noise being introduced, I switched the unit to “phones” and gave a quick listen. Wow! It was clear and accurate within the middle frequencies, a little shy on the highs and extreme lows, but not to the extent of displeasure. I turned on my Super T-amp and then switched the Zero to pre-amp mode. Wow again! This time, the spectrum was not lacking at all. The entire spectrum was “flat” with no accentuations I could detect. Very solid state sounding overall. In my mind, I was expecting the “pre-amp” and “headphone amp” sections to initially sound different due to the independent circuits that control and drive them.






*50 Hours into the burn-in:*
 At this point, I simply grabbed the HD-650s and plopped them on my head and took a good listen. The bass was now tighter and deeper and the upper highs, which had been suffering, were there in a big way. I got horizontal on my couch and closed my eyes and let the music reveal itself to me. This was very enjoyable and I could sense the sound stage was changing and not done yet. Things that normally have a solid 3D position were moving slightly out and back depending on the intensity of the passage. I have heard this before in tube amps, so more burn in was obviously needed. Vocals were accurate and real. Drums were bright and detailed. This little unit is really starting to impress me MUCH more than I thought it would.

*100 Hours into the burn-in:*
 Wait just a darn minute. Who swapped out my Zero for a tube amp? What is going on here? I picked up the HD-650s, plopped them on my head and sat straight down on the floor. I didn’t move for the next 15 minutes. I had to determine what I was hearing because it was so “not solid state” sounding. This little Zero has mutated into sounding like a nice clean tube amp!
 I ran up the volume…no change. I ran down the volume…no change. I grabbed my HD-580s and swapped out the headphones and put them on for a listen. 5 minutes later I was still sitting on the floor, but with an air guitar was in my hands and I was jamming! Wow, this is a super fun amp! I swapped back and forth between the HD-650s and 580s and they were both fun to listen too. I put on Jazz, Rock, Classical and Blues trying to find a weak spot in this enjoyment. There just wasn’t any. I grabbed my HD-280 Pros from my computer and gave them a try. BASS! Huge amounts of clean blasting Bass! Good Lord! The HD-280 Pros are known for big bass once they are broke in, but I have never heard that much bass out of them. The Zero unit just kept on pumping and didn’t even breathe hard.

*144 Hours, declared end of burn-in:*
 Today, I tried three different optical sources, four different headphones, two different interconnects and seven different categories of music. No matter what I threw at the Zero, it amplified everything wonderfully, mostly transparent with just a little bit of “tube” sound thrown in. Keep in mind that this is with the stock unit. I haven’t changed a thing in the unit, yet. What a nice Opamp it has; very well rounded and suitable for the majority of music types. The Zero has tons of power and will easily drive whatever headphones you might have.






*Using the Zero as a pre-amp for dedicated amplifiers:*
 This testing was extremely fun! First, I tested the unit on my Sonic Super T-Amp. I used my Sony D-E885 portable CD player as source, using its optical connection. I hooked the Super T-amp up to my Cerwin-Vega S-1s. Switches on and I grabbed the volume knob on the Super T. I was able to drive the amp easily up to its maximum safe output (about 9 watts RMS). My S-1s are known for making digital sound a little bright, but this was not the case here. The Zero’s inherent “almost tube” sound came through sounding very nice. It always makes me “twitch” a little when I see those Cerwin-Vega woofers moving in and out and then look back at the small and tiny Super T-amp driving them!  Next, I hooked the Zero directly up to my Pioneer SPEC4 amplifier and hooked up the S-1s. The SPEC4 has two adjustable input level knobs, one for each channel on the front panel, so I powered everything up and grabbed both knobs. Oh yes! I was able to drive the S-1s to 100 watts RMS with room to spare. I have neighbors, so I backed it down to about 25 watts RMS and listened for a while. The SPEC4 amplifier is known for being transparent, and this trait really shows in this test. That “almost tube” sound was really showing now. Deep, deep bass and as hard as I tried the noise floor was not detectable. Very clean, dynamic and full spectrum considering the little Sony as a source!!






*Using the Zero as a pre-amp for headphone amps:*
 First, I set the Zeros output up to my LDII++ RCA inputs. I plugged in my HD-650s into the LDII++ and let the tubes warm up a while. I used my Toshiba SD-5970 (DVD, 24bit,192KHz CD audio) player as the source, first using the coaxial and then switching to optical connections. Both type of connections work fantastic with no discernable difference between them. I popped the HD-650s on my head and pressed play. What a very interesting sound. The expected harshness of digital was not present. The sound was most definitely tube, except the bass which was tighter and powerful. Nuances in the upper frequencies were accurate and easy. Voices were smooth and detailed. The sound stage was less wide than with an analog source, but 3D positioning was right where I expected it to be using the LDII++. Very nice! Next, I swapped the LDII++ for my MKIVse and plopped the HD-650s on. Wow, this is different! The full spectrum was cleaner; bass was not so tight but powerful, the mids sounded warm and seductive, the highs were crisp and better defined. The sound stage was now wider, with positioning a little further out. This was amazing! I had not anticipated how much the higher quality MKIVse would change this listening test!






*Opamp swap out, a few quick notes:*
 LM4562: 
 Upon installation, everything is rather harsh. The bass so tight, it almost doesn’t exist. The mids are extremely revealing. The highs are super crisp. There is a very digital sound overall and time is required to mature this Opamp. 24 Hours: Overall, far less harsh. The bass is now tight but sounding much improved. Mids have mellowed enough to fit right in with the rest of the spectrum. Highs are less crisp and more revealing. This is quite nice, especially with classical or instrumental music. A nice upgrade for non-rockers!

 OPA627 x2 on Brown Dog Adaptor (See pic):
 WOW!! Upon installation, everything is improved! I’m hearing a full spectrum with no deficiencies! The immediate shocker is the sound stage. Nice and wide without being too distant! Vocals are absolutely clear and the highs are clean and detailed. Bass is tight and has a proper presence to it, with punch. This was worth the money for sure! A super upgrade for all music lovers! 24 Hours: It just keeps getting better, or I should say “mature”. I’m going to leave the OPA627s in as the new default. Today I listened to a favorite CD from long ago, Pink Floyd-Animals. I have heard nuances in the music I did not know existed! I’m so happy with this setup; I’ve moved my MKIVse and have it sitting on top of the Zero unit. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*Conclusion:*
 This Zero unit is a monster “Bang for your Buck” unit. It is quality built with HeadFi type audiophiles in mind. Having said that, let me clarify a few things that might help those who are looking for such a unit. Inputs on the Zero are limited to optical and coaxial. No analog line-in. It is designed to take a clean digital source and convert it to really great headphone and pre-amp output. It will drive any type of headphones. It will cleanly drive a dedicated stereo amp (like my Super T-amp) or other separate amps. It is not portable, but works well with portable devices that have optical out. If you are in the market to build a desktop stereo system starting with a clean digital source, then this unit is absolutely worth investigating. It can serve as a clean bridge between portable and desktop, or as a bridge between digital and analog systems.

*Last thoughts and a declaration:*
 This little Zero unit shows just how great solid state can be on a budget today if you hunt for it. It stands mostly alone in the market as an unknown treasure, waiting to be discovered by HeadFier’s everywhere. It is not just for newly inspired audio beginners. I’m sure it will outperform many units that demand a higher cost. This will upset some users who have already put up their hard earned cash for more expensive units. All I can say to everyone regardless of their past purchases is this; everyone deserves to have a unit like the Zero. It will compliment what you have or what you plan to have if it involves a clean digital source. In many cases, this unit will not be upgraded or replaced later on because of its excellent performance. One thing is for sure, it will never be a waste of anyone’s money. Is this low cost Zero unit really that good? Yes, indeed it is. I have to be honest and tell everyone that "your mileage may vary". I have done my best to describe what has transpired during this review and I wouldn’t want anyone to think for even a minute that this Zero unit could or should replace $600+ units with similar features. What I must get across is that this unit is worth checking out, reading about or listening too before you spend twice the money on another unit. It is a gem!


 Dave McLaughlin
 Zero owner and
 Audiophile sense 1977

 *NOTE* I have an update for all Zero users. Thanks to other Zero users, the true "pre-amp" function (a volume controlled output feature) has been found.
 If you press the button for Phones and the green light comes on, this means that "IF" a headphone is plugged in, the volume knob works for the headphone amp. If you don't plug in a headphone and the green light is on, the volume knob works for the DAC output! It was discovered by accident. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you need further clarification, don't hesitate to PM me directly. Thanks!! Penchum. 

 **NOTE** *WARNING*
 We have a banned individual named ANDREA, who has been making bad recommendations to Zero owners.
 This person, comes back on under an alias and pretends to know everything about Opamps for the Zero.
 Here is a link that sums this up very well, and it shows an example of someone who got a bad recommendation:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...ml#post4353557
 Thanks for your attention!!
 Penchum 06/18/08


 This addendum is for Opamps that have been tested in the Zero DAC/Amp. I'm keeping it updated so new folks can see what has worked already.

*Warning*: Non-unity gain stable opamps (LT1115, AD797) can not be used in the DAC section of the Zero.


 Here is what we have tested so far: Note: "good" means only good. "great" means great. We recommend "great" to everyone thinking of Opamp rolling. All gradings were done with Sennheiser HD-650 headphones with over 1000hrs on them.


 Dac / Amp :

 LT1057 + LT1469 DAC=good, phone=good

 LT1057 + LT1364 DAC=good, phone=good

 LT1057 + LT1361 DAC=good, phone=good

 LT1057 + LM4562 DAC=good, phone=good

 LT1361 + LT1469 DAC=good, phone=good

 LT1361 + LT1364 DAC=good, phone=great

 LT1361 + LT1057 DAC=good, phone=good

 LT1361 + LM4562 DAC=good, phone=good

 LT1364 + LT1469 DAC=great, phone=great

 LT1364 + LT1361 DAC=great, phone=great

 LT1364 + LT1057 DAC=great, phone=good

 LT1364 + LM4562 DAC=great, phone=great

 LT1469 + LT1364 DAC=great, phone =good

 LT1469 + LT1361 DAC=great, phone=great

 LT1469 + LT1057 DAC=great, phone=great

 LT1469 + LM4562 DAC=great, phone=great

 LM4562 + LT1469 DAC=good, phone=good

 LM4562 + LT1364 DAC=good, phone=good

 LM4562 + LT1361 DAC=good, phone=good

 LM4562 + LT1057 DAC=good, phone=good

 AD797 + LT1469 DAC=bright, phone=odd treble

 AD797 + LT1364 DAC=bright, phone=odd treble

 AD797 + LT1361 DAC=bright, phone=odd treble

 AD797 + LT1057 DAC=bright, phone=odd treble

 AD797 + LM4562 DAC=bright, phone=odd treble

 OPA2604 + LT1469 DAC=good, phone=good

 OPA2604 + LT1364 DAC=good, phone=good

 OPA2604 + LT1361 DAC=good, phone=good

 OPA2604 + LT1057 DAC=good, phone=good

 OPA627s + LT1469 DAC=great, phone=good

 OPA627s + LT1364 DAC=great, phone=great

 OPA627s + LT1361 DAC=great, phone=great

 OPA627s + LT1057 DAC=great, phone=good

 OPA627s + LM4562 DAC=great, phone=great

 LT1358 + LT1469 N/A

 LT1469 + LT1358 N/A

 LT1469 + OPA2132 N/A

 DY2000 + LT1469 N/A

 AD8599 + LT1361 N/A

 LT1028 + LT1361 N/A

 LT1028 + LT1358 N/A


 N/A means I'm missing part of the combo to test it, so someone else can take a crack at it. 
 If you do any of the N/A's or have an addition, PM it too me and I'll add it. THX,


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## pompon

Ty for this good review.

 How long you burn the LM4562 ?
 I think it require something like 2 days to get almost his top potential.

 For the price , I think the Zero is an interesting product.


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## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pompon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ty for this good review.

 How long you burn the LM4562 ?
 I think it require something like 2 days to get almost his top potential.

 For the price , I think the Zero is an interesting product._

 

I suspect not long enough. After things settle down here, I'm going to re-install it and run her for a few days and see where that goes.


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## Jo6Pak

Thanks for putting our curiosity about these to rest...


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## TURBO

Thanks for that great review. I knew I was not alone!. Je, je.


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## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TURBO* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for that great review. I knew I was not alone!. Je, je._

 

The Zero is amazing, isn't it? I find myself listening to it far more frequently than I intended, which really says something about its sound quality! Plus, I love a great deal when I find one!!


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## Mulo

Here's one more opamp for you to try: the LT1364 (a dual opamp). Overall it's alive, warm sounding, yet maybe slightly bright. A favorite of mine. Also, I would try 2x AD797. Though I'm sure that the OPA627's work great.


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## AKChastain

Thanks for a great review, this might have to go on my post-Christmas list!!!


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## phosfiend

Great review - did you get to spend any time testing low impedance/highly efficient phones on the ZERO?


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## Penchum

The lowest phones I have are Senn HD212pro's. They are 32ohms. They have tons of bass by nature, so I tried them last night. Wow, they sound great considering the "excess bass". I could drive them right up to pain if I wanted too. So far, I'd have to say the Zero unit doesn't care what phones you use. It has plenty of power to drive any of them. No added hiss or distortions either. Have a good one!!


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## Penchum

For anyone interested, I'll be posting an update to the review hopefully later Friday. My disability has kept me away from the computer for a few days, but I've had some time for testing additional sources and Opamp situations. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Dave McLaughlin


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## arteom

i dont mean to hijack, but how does this compare to amps 2-3 times its price, i have been thinking about getting a Eddie Current EC/SS but this has caught my eye. i would be using a denon d2000. Thanks!


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## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arteom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i dont mean to hijack, but how does this compare to amps 2-3 times its price, i have been thinking about getting a Eddie Current EC/SS but this has caught my eye. i would be using a denon d2000. Thanks!_

 

I wish I had one to do a comparison against. But, that is why I did the kind of review I did. I suppose one "testimony" of quality would be when I hooked it up to my vintage Pioneer SPEC equipment. It really did sound great! Another thing I totally liked was its ability to amp any headphones. I have been enjoying my HD-580s again! I don't think you could go wrong picking one up. It sure is a bargain and another seller on eBay is selling them for 139 + 39 shipping. Not bad at all!! Good luck either way!!


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## arteom

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wish I had one to do a comparison against. But, that is why I did the kind of review I did. I suppose one "testimony" of quality would be when I hooked it up to my vintage Pioneer SPEC equipment. It really did sound great! Another thing I totally liked was its ability to amp any headphones. I have been enjoying my HD-580s again! I don't think you could go wrong picking one up. It sure is a bargain and another seller on eBay is selling them for 139 + 39 shipping. Not bad at all!! Good luck either way!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

thats odd, i am getting no results in ebay for that amp at the moment, would you happen to have a link? I do appreciate your reply, I am really considering this amp, this would be my first amp purchase.


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## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arteom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thats odd, i am getting no results in ebay for that amp at the moment, would you happen to have a link? I do appreciate your reply, I am really considering this amp, this would be my first amp purchase._

 

Pull up item # 140183988497
 My internet access is freaking out, I hope you get this.


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## arteom

Got it, ok. Its definitely a good price, I just need a day or two to make up my mind. 

 Thanks for your help!


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## arteom

How would you describe the soundstage with this amp? perhaps i missed that in the review?


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## Cankin

How does it compare to Zhaolu D2.5A or D2.5C with upgrade headamp?


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## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arteom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How would you describe the soundstage with this amp? perhaps i missed that in the review?_

 

Even with the "stock OPA2604" Opamp, the sound stage is very nice. Not too wide, not too far away. I just finished up checking again with the LM4562 and the sound stage was improved in clarity. Very nice Opamp indeed!!


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## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cankin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How does it compare to Zhaolu D2.5A or D2.5C with upgrade headamp?_

 

To be honest, I have no idea. Comparative reviews are problematic because you never have enough of the right equipment to compare too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now that the price has dropped $139+ship, maybe more Headfi'ers will purchase one and give up their impressions. I am truly impressed with this Zero unit and hope to read more impressions soon. Good Luck!!


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## JonM

How do you think it would compare to the beresford? Home HIFI

 Especially concerning the headphone amp.


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## Ezer

How sensitive is the volume knob of the Zero DAC with the headphone amp? I've heard reports of how the amp of the Zhaolu D2.5 had fairly high gain, and even with cans like the HD580 it was difficult to use the whole knob?


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## LawnGnome

Your unit seems to have the same problems as my chinese built dac. TONS of cold solder joints.


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## d-cee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LawnGnome* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your unit seems to have the same problems as my chinese built dac. TONS of cold solder joints._

 

are you talking about the OP's DAC?


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## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *d-cee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_are you talking about the OP's DAC?_

 

I was wondering that too!


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## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ezer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How sensitive is the volume knob of the Zero DAC with the headphone amp? I've heard reports of how the amp of the Zhaolu D2.5 had fairly high gain, and even with cans like the HD580 it was difficult to use the whole knob?_

 

I had my HD-580s up around the 1:00 position, but I can't imagine listening to it there for long.


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## fraseyboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JonM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How do you think it would compare to the beresford? Home HIFI

 Especially concerning the headphone amp._

 

I also would like to know this.

 If it is better and includes a better headphone amp that would be good. I'd sell my Mk3.


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## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fraseyboy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I also would like to know this.

 If it is better and includes a better headphone amp that would be good. I'd sell my Mk3._

 

There are many fans of the beresford, and this in no way discounts their investments in that unit. It appears the Zero has better Specs, but less connections. I would love to do a side by side on them, but my budget keeps me from taking one for the team. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wouldn't be quick to sell a MKIII to be replaced by the Zero, instead, I would keep the MKIII and use it in conjunction with the Zero. I'm doing this with my MKIVse and the sound is wonderful.


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## Penchum

Well, despite my best efforts to get the addendum's finished and posted, Murphy bit me on the rear this weekend! The power supply in my desktop PC blew up in a fantastic electrical show with plenty of stinko to fill my home office! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have a replacement coming 2 day from Newegg, so I should have it up and running before Friday (7th) and then I will post the updates to my review of the Zero.


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## oicdn

How can I get use of this with a laptop as a source?


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## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oicdn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How can I get use of this with a laptop as a source?_

 

I'm just guessing here, but your notebook doesn't have optical out? If not, I have read where many are using a USB to SPDIF device that costs very little and works real well. Tell me about your notebook.


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## oicdn

Yeah, no optical out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Is this the device you're talking about?

CryoParts USB to SPDIF Converter

 $50...that's almost approaching the cost of the player, lol. Anything else out there?


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## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oicdn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, no optical out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Is this the device you're talking about?

CryoParts USB to SPDIF Converter

 $50...that's almost approaching the cost of the player, lol. Anything else out there?_

 

More like this one I think NEW USB to SPDIF & OPTICAL Interface UDA1321 / CS8405A - (eBay item 140185612073 end time Dec-07-07 20:03:16 PST) at least the cost is less. Anyone else want to chime in on a good one at low cost?


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## oicdn

^ It's not that much lower cost ($6), and I have to wait for it to come from HK, etc.

 Hmm...anything else out there?


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## slwiser

I have seen one for about 10-12 dollars somewhere but have no ideal as to how good it would be.


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## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slwiser* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have seen one for about 10-12 dollars somewhere but have no ideal as to how good it would be._

 

I read entire threads about which ones were better, but now I can't seem to find them. Maybe in dedicated source? I'm still looking..


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## oicdn

I rememnber seeing one too, but I couldn't find anything either.


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## dsmudger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I would love to do a side by side on them, but my budget keeps me from taking one for the team. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 [...]
 I would keep the MKIII and use it in conjunction with the Zero. I'm doing this with my MKIVse and the sound is wonderful. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Not sure I understand right - are you saying you have a Zero and a mkIV Beresford to compare (your PC's recent demise notwithstanding - sorry to hear it man 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) but not a mkIII? 

 Dying to read a comparison (mkIV is presumably the currently available latest model? i.e. the one I'd get if I ordered one now?) as they both look rather excellent choices based on what people are writing about them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Failing that, does anyone have a view on which might be a better match for Grado RS-1s and/or listening to (all kinds of) electronica (just based on reviews/posts on here/specs/whatever)?

 </impatiently taps credit card on table 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




>


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dsmudger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not sure I understand right - are you saying you have a Zero and a mkIV Beresford to compare (your PC's recent demise notwithstanding - sorry to hear it man 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) but not a mkIII? 

 Dying to read a comparison (mkIV is presumably the currently available latest model? i.e. the one I'd get if I ordered one now?) as they both look rather excellent choices based on what people are writing about them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Failing that, does anyone have a view on which might be a better match for Grado RS-1s and/or listening to (all kinds of) electronica (just based on reviews/posts on here/specs/whatever)?

 </impatiently taps credit card on table 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




>_

 

Sorry if I confused, or am confused! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have a Zero and a Little-Dot MKIVse tube headphone amp. I'll go optical in to the Zero, analog out of Zero to the analog in on the MKIVse tube amp. With this setup, I can listen to headphones with either unit. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was saying I wish I had a Beresford DAC/Amp to compare the Zero with.

 The challenge for the Zero is that it is so new, where the Beresford has been around a long time and is highly recommended. I'm hoping that others (like me) will pickup a Zero and then let the Headfi community know just how great they are. I believe the Zero represents a new direction for DAC/Amps because you can afford one early on and not need to replace it for a long time. This goes against the "established" recommendation chain. I believe that times are changing and being "thrifty" has a place in Headfi quality audio.

 Hope this helps some. Feel free to ask anything and I'll try to help!


----------



## fraseyboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dsmudger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not sure I understand right - are you saying you have a Zero and a mkIV Beresford to compare (your PC's recent demise notwithstanding - sorry to hear it man 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) but not a mkIII? 

 Dying to read a comparison (mkIV is presumably the currently available latest model? i.e. the one I'd get if I ordered one now?) as they both look rather excellent choices based on what people are writing about them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Failing that, does anyone have a view on which might be a better match for Grado RS-1s and/or listening to (all kinds of) electronica (just based on reviews/posts on here/specs/whatever)?

 </impatiently taps credit card on table 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




>_

 

The latest Beresford DAC is MK6/3 I think. It looks like its alot better than my MK III...


----------



## dsmudger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry if I confused, or am confused! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have a Zero and a Little-Dot MKIVse tube headphone amp. I'll go optical in to the Zero, analog out of Zero to the analog in on the MKIVse tube amp. With this setup, I can listen to headphones with either unit. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was saying I wish I had a Beresford DAC/Amp to compare the Zero with.

 The challenge for the Zero is that it is so new, where the Beresford has been around a long time and is highly recommended. I'm hoping that others (like me) will pickup a Zero and then let the Headfi community know just how great they are. I believe the Zero represents a new direction for DAC/Amps because you can afford one early on and not need to replace it for a long time. This goes against the "established" recommendation chain. I believe that times are changing and being "thrifty" has a place in Headfi quality audio.

 Hope this helps some. Feel free to ask anything and I'll try to help!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Oh man not another amp to go read about! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Only joking 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - you see the connundrum though - I'm only going to buy one, and I have to buy it without listening to it/just hope it's the best match for the headphones I happen to have 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...unless of course I suppose anyone knows of a shop selling any of these (in the UK/London in my case...)? (unlikely I know.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 Maybe I'd be best-off getting a Zero and arrange to go see the people who make the Beresford, audition it and if I like it better, eBay the Zero? (I think they say they take visitors by appointment or something and they're in the UK - don't know where though..) 

 Fair bit of hassle though - I know what's going to happen - I'll get both and not be arsed to eBay the one I don't like/yet another disappointing gadget gathering dust (much like my noisy Total Bithead)


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dsmudger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh man not another amp to go read about! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Only joking 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - you see the connundrum though - I'm only going to buy one, and I have to buy it without listening to it/just hope it's the best match for the headphones I happen to have 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...unless of course I suppose anyone knows of a shop selling any of these (in the UK/London in my case...)? (unlikely I know.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 Maybe I'd be best-off getting a Zero and arrange to go see the people who make the Beresford, audition it and if I like it better, eBay the Zero? (I think they say they take visitors by appointment or something and they're in the UK - don't know where though..) 

 Fair bit of hassle though - I know what's going to happen - I'll get both and not be arsed to eBay the one I don't like/yet another disappointing gadget gathering dust (much like my noisy Total Bithead) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I sure do understand. It is difficult to buy audio on faith. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I looked back a little and couldn't seem to find what headphones you are using? Please tell me that. On a positive note, I have tried 7 different models of headphones on the Zero with great success. They were all Senn's, but ranged from 32ohms to 300ohms. Every one of them kept their normal properties during amplification. Example: My wife has a pair of HD-570s. They are old, but sound very laid back, soft and warm. I plugged them into the Zero and gave the volume knob a whirl. The sound was identical to listening un-amped, it had a better sound stage and 3D properties, but best of all, their particular sound was great amplified! Now I think she wants a Zero! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This transparency (if you can call it that) is great as far as I'm concerned. It assures me that a great sounding headphone un-amplified, will sound as good if not better amplified! You see what I'm getting at here? This is one of the reasons why I recommend this Zero unit. Anyway, let me know how things are going!


----------



## dsmudger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I sure do understand. It is difficult to buy audio on faith. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I looked back a little and couldn't seem to find what headphones you are using? Please tell me that._

 

Oh right yeah - Grado RS-1 (recent purchase - all I can say is WOW, by the way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), currently running off a Total Bithead. Don't know yet if it's the phones, lack of break-in, or the Bithead that's the problem (don't know if you/anyone're familair with it/might know how it compares to any of the amps mentioned here...), but most importantly I'm looking to match the 'phones with something with bigger bass (by the sounds of it, noise, my other issue with the bithead, isn't going to be a problem with any of these choices...)

 Case in point - I did a back-to-back listening test with some Senn HD600 at a friend's house a couple of weeks ago (different amp - internal to a DJ mixer thingy - forget which now, but a good one/recent model) and the Grado was nicer in absolutely every way, except the bass which was so much fuller ('fatter'!) on the Senns; and as I say I listen to a lot of electronica where this kind of quality contributes majorly to the overall enjoyment 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh, I also have some Shure e5c and E500 PTH that I'll be using with it from time to time (now you see why I'm trying my level best to buy ONLY ONE nice amp!! ...let's face it, probably going to fail hehe/oh man... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), and a pair of slightly-buzzy-in-the-right-channel-at-certain-frequencies HD580 I don't really use much any more kicking around under the bed... (my first proper headphones - served me _so_ well, especially since they cost only £75 many many years (and several replacement cables 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) ago, but think they're just kinda broken now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dsmudger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh right yeah - Grado RS-1 (recent purchase - all I can say is WOW, by the way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), currently running off a Total Bithead. Don't know yet if it's the phones, lack of break-in, or the Bithead that's the problem (don't know if you/anyone're familair with it/might know how it compares to any of the amps mentioned here...), but most importantly I'm looking to match the 'phones with something with bigger bass (by the sounds of it, noise, my other issue with the bithead, isn't going to be a problem with any of these choices...)

 Case in point - I did a back-to-back listening test with some Senn HD600 at a friend's house a couple of weeks ago (different amp - internal to a DJ mixer thingy - forget which now, but a good one/recent model) and the Grado was nicer in absolutely every way, except the bass which was so much fuller ('fatter'!) on the Senns; and as I say I listen to a lot of electronica where this kind of quality contributes majorly to the overall enjoyment 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh, I also have some Shure e5c and E500 PTH that I'll be using with it from time to time (now you see why I'm trying my level best to buy ONLY ONE nice amp!! ...let's face it, probably going to fail hehe/oh man... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), and a pair of slightly-buzzy-in-the-right-channel-at-certain-frequencies HD580 I don't really use much any more kicking around under the bed... (my first proper headphones - served me so well, especially since they cost only £75 many many years (and several replacement cables 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) ago, but think they're just kinda broken now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)_

 

Wow. Thats a bunch to think about. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe there is another way of looking at this. If you buy the Zero, you stand a better than average chance of being more than satisfied with the stock unit. If for some reason you are not, the Zero can be customized enough (Opamp swap) to match your needs. Example: I like the stock unit very much. Just super! After the review, I swapped out the OPA2604 for the LM4562. WOW. I'm still not over it. It is like a whole different unit! Even my old HD-570s sound fantastic! If I needed to go the other way, say, back the Zero down to be more "tube" like, I'd re-install the OPA627 x2 on Brown Dog Adapter. Just having this flexibility will help match up to the most unique situations, much like the more expensive portable DAC/Amps can do.


----------



## jamato8

I wonder how a pair of AD797's or the AD8397 would sound? I have often found the 4562 to be a little HiFi sounding but it is also in the implementation so I am glad it sounds good in this setup. In looking at the board it sure appears you are getting very much for your money. This is more like a low wholesale price. I have seen amps in China selling for 40 dollars and have no idea, even with their low wages and living cost, how they do it. My friends in China just say, "this is China, we can make thing cheap". I bought a soldering iron there that I still favor using over everything else I have. The cost, $2.25 and tips were 25 cents and the first one is still going strong (much better than my Weller tips that cost 6 dollars or more. 

 Has anyone compared this to headamps costing much more?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wonder how a pair of AD797's or the AD8397 would sound? I have often found the 4562 to be a little HiFi sounding but it is also in the implementation so I am glad it sounds good in this setup. In looking at the board it sure appears you are getting very much for your money. This is more like a low wholesale price. I have seen amps in China selling for 40 dollars and have no idea, even with their low wages and living cost, how they do it. My friends in China just say, "this is China, we can make thing cheap". I bought a soldering iron there that I still favor using over everything else I have. The cost, $2.25 and tips were 25 cents and the first one is still going strong (much better than my Weller tips that cost 6 dollars or more. 

 Has anyone compared this to headamps costing much more?_

 

I think the Zero is still too new to HeadFi just yet. Hopefully, that will change soon. You are right, the quality of components is fantastic for the price. Opamp changes are immediately revealing, so I would bet the impressions of different Opamps from other reviews would be mirrored in the Zero. Maybe you should also "take one for the team?" It is a great unit to have around!
 I keep finding myself listening too it and enjoying it, when I could have listened to something else. Have a good one!!


----------



## davve

where is the Zero avilibale to buy? not on ebay anymore..


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_where is the Zero avilibale to buy? not on ebay anymore.._

 

Here is the email address of the seller I bought mine from: lawrencechanbig@msn.com You could ask him when more will be available.


----------



## enigma1406

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here is the email address of the seller I bought mine from: lawrencechanbig@msn.com You could ask him when more will be available. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I emailed him. We'll see what he says!


----------



## edguetzow

I have been following this thread from the beginning and have decided to jump in, bite the bullit and get the whole enchilada. I also emailed Lawrence and requested info about purchasing.

 Got his email response back already (very fast!) at 11:41 P.M. CST and sent my payment via PP. He will email me when he ships it to me.

 Merry Christmas to me!


----------



## enigma1406

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edguetzow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have been following this thread from the beginning and have decided to jump in, bite the bullit and get the whole enchilada. I also emailed Lawrence and requested info about purchasing.

 Got his email response back already (very fast!) at 11:41 P.M. CST and sent my payment via PP. He will email me when he ships it to me.

 Merry Christmas to me! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Exact same thing here. He emailed me back within 20 minutes. Paypal is sent and now I'm just waiting for it to ship.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edguetzow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have been following this thread from the beginning and have decided to jump in, bite the bullit and get the whole enchilada. I also emailed Lawrence and requested info about purchasing.

 Got his email response back already (very fast!) at 11:41 P.M. CST and sent my payment via PP. He will email me when he ships it to me.

 Merry Christmas to me! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *enigma1406* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Exact same thing here. He emailed me back within 20 minutes. Paypal is sent and now I'm just waiting for it to ship. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes indeed, Merry Christmas to you both! As I'm typing this, my notebook is feeding the Zero via optical, I have my Senn HD-650s plugged into the Zero, and I'm listening to some old RUSH, "Subdivisions" from the Signals album. Sweet!


----------



## enigma1406

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes indeed, Merry Christmas to you both! As I'm typing this, my notebook is feeding the Zero via optical, I have my Senn HD-650s plugged into the Zero, and I'm listening to some old RUSH, "Subdivisions" from the Signals album. Sweet! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I emailed back about shipping and his response was about 10 days followed by "it have a power upgrade recently and delay the shipping progress." I wonder what's changing.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *enigma1406* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I emailed back about shipping and his response was about 10 days followed by "it have a power upgrade recently and delay the shipping progress." I wonder what's changing._

 

Someone posted the other day that they decided to upgrade the toroide transformer (the big round plastic wrapped item in the pics) to a better one and this was the delay in shipping them out. Which means you both will get an even better unit than mine!


----------



## sushicide

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *enigma1406* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I emailed back about shipping and his response was about 10 days followed by "it have a power upgrade recently and delay the shipping progress." I wonder what's changing._

 

How much is he charging you guys? I found this BIN auction on ebay that seems to be the same seller as Penchum's. 

 Since I just picked up a pair of D2000 & not happy with my current amp, think I might pull the trigger on this unit.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sushicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How much is he charging you guys? I found this BIN auction on ebay that seems to be the same seller as Penchum's. 

 Since I just picked up a pair of D2000 & not happy with my current amp, think I might pull the trigger on this unit._

 

Fantastic! More at $139. Wish I needed a second one!


----------



## edguetzow

I paid $179 shipping included ($139 + $40). The seller in your link is not the same seller that Penchum mentioned. That would be Biglawhk (Lawrence) whose email was provided above (lawrencechanbig@msn.com).

 The seller in your link (snow48_6) appears to be selling the exact same unit for 1 cent less shipping ($39.99) and is also from Hong Kong.


----------



## jamato8

Do you know if this is the latest version with the larger toroidal transformer?


----------



## sushicide

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edguetzow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I paid $179 shipping included ($139 + $40). The seller in your link is not the same seller that Penchum mentioned. That would be Biglawhk (Lawrence) whose email was provided above (lawrencechanbig@msn.com).

 The seller in your link (snow48_6) appears to be selling the exact same unit for 1 cent less shipping ($39.99) and is also from Hong Kong._

 

Ah...well Idunno, I just put 140183988497 in ebay search and snow's name came up. But anyway, I'll shoot Lawrence an email, maybe I can get my friend from HK to help me haggle a little in Cantonese 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (I doubt it, but a good price like this, how can I complain 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## edguetzow

I don't know for sure as I didn't get a detailed email explanation from Lawrence when I ordered. I initially asked him if he still had any units to sell and if not when he would sell again. He responded that he could send me a unit for the $179. No mention of the toroidal upgrade to me nor a time frame.

 I think I will email him and ask for about this concering my order and post what I find out.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you know if this is the latest version with the larger toroidal transformer?_

 

Last month, when both sellers were up on eBay, they were identical units. Now, hummm, maybe one of these guys getting ready to purchase wouldn't mind asking the seller if they've been upgraded? You thinking about one?


----------



## jamato8

Well it looks very interesting. I would like to read more about the sound compared to some higher end products. The look of things and the components used would seem to lend to very good sound. Good caps, chips etc. I wonder if those are carbon resistors? I prefer those to common metal film resistors and they cost about the same or less.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well it looks very interesting. I would like to read more about the sound compared to some higher end products. The look of things and the components used would seem to lend to very good sound. Good caps, chips etc. I wonder if those are carbon resistors? I prefer those to common metal film resistors and they cost about the same or less._

 

The most reveling photos (way better than mine) I have seen are the ones here on ebay: ZERO NEW 24BIT 192KHZ DAC +HEAD PHONE AMP - (eBay item 140188390838 end time Dec-15-07 21:00:57 PST)

 He says alot about it's contents.


----------



## edguetzow

I just got this response from Lawrence about my order:

_Dear Sir ,

 You need to wait for around 10 days , your dac will be the new version upgraded dac.

 Thank you veyr much !

 Best regrads,
 Lawrence_

 So, I will be getting the upgraded toroidal power supply as well! Ten days has now become eternity for me!!


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The most reveling photos (way better than mine) I have seen are the ones here on ebay: ZERO NEW 24BIT 192KHZ DAC +HEAD PHONE AMP - (eBay item 140188390838 end time Dec-15-07 21:00:57 PST)

 He says alot about it's contents._

 

Great shots and components. It would still be nice to read a comparo to something well respected but the thing looks like great fun and it should be musical.


----------



## arteom

i am still looking for an amp, have another question about this one. I would like something that would add weight to the sounds/music that is coming through my phones. How well does this amp do in that department? Also im sure this was asked before, but how is the clarity? 

 thanks!


----------



## sushicide

That looks like the upgraded toroidal transformer, right?

 I'm pretty firm on purchasing this great unit now thanks to the wonderful review


----------



## kaushama

Its amazing how chinese AUDIO manufacutres able to produce very cost effective high end audio gear!!


----------



## jamato8

In the review it states don't expect this to compete with a 600 dollar plus unit but why not? If everything is implemented correctly it could compete with more than that but does it? It will be nice to see this compared to so existing respected units.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arteom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i am still looking for an amp, have another question about this one. I would like something that would add weight to the sounds/music that is coming through my phones. How well does this amp do in that department? Also im sure this was asked before, but how is the clarity? 

 thanks!_

 

Hi! I guess I'm a little unsure of what you mean by weight. With the default Opamp, it brings out the best of your clean source. I would call it transparent, pure amplification. With a Opamp change, you can make it sound more like a tube amp, super crystal clear solid state and many more. Does that help?


----------



## nor_spoon

I asked Chan Lawrence about the transformer yesterday, and he told me it is upgraded...


----------



## dsmudger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *enigma1406* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Exact same thing here. He emailed me back within 20 minutes. Paypal is sent and now I'm just waiting for it to ship. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

hehe yep, enough was enough, all this deciding - I mailed Tianyun directly and the two eBay sellers who had previously been selling them - bought from the first one to reply (Lawrence again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) - £90 shipped </childishly_overexcited!>

 (could have saved about £50 of that plus shipping by buying direct, but the quick response - on a weekend too - kind of suggested I'd get it much much quicker via Mr Chan 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and besides, didn't even know if Tianyun will sell them individually and/or ship internationally, but I'll post here if/when they get back to me about that)


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In the review it states don't expect this to compete with a 600 dollar plus unit but why not? If everything is implemented correctly it could compete with more than that but does it? It will be nice to see this compared to so existing respected units._

 

Well, for the purpose of the "impressionistic" review, I didn't want to assume how high up the quality ladder the Zero could compete with directly. I knew for sure it stomped all over my Entec 205.5, so I tried to keep a level playing field around that. I agree there is NO reason why it couldn't compete with $600 or higher units, I just didn't have a way to substantiate that high of an impression. I can say with confidence that it's quality and performance suggest to me that it CAN compete at that level, but like I said in the review, I wouldn't go as far as expecting it too.

 I know that the Zero represents a change in inexpensive audio from China. Much like Little-Dot and many portable units, the desire to produce quality audio that satisfies the end user has come into focus with great speed. I also realize this may upset some audio users especially if it seems to "fly in the face of established norms". I just hope that a few long time members with unbiased views, purchase the Zero and share with others how great a unit it is.


----------



## Penchum

One thing I have upgraded on my Zero is the volume knob. The stock one is OK, but light weight. I like to have a heavier knob so I can feel the smoothness of the pot. If you look at my pics in the review, you will see the upgraded knob on the unit.

 If anyone is interested in the same upgrade, here is the link to that knob:
http://www.partsconnexion.com/catalo...sandknobs.html

 Scroll down the page until you see the knob and this line:
 KNOBS- 64392 Solid Brass - matte silver, 6mm - shaft diameter with Allen/socket screw mount 26 $13.75 
 The pic on their site makes the knob look tapered, but it isn't. It has a nice notch cut in it so you can feel where the knob is in relation to the volume you are hearing. This is great if you like listening in low light situations.


----------



## arteom

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi! I guess I'm a little unsure of what you mean by weight. With the default Opamp, it brings out the best of your clean source. I would call it transparent, pure amplification. With a Opamp change, you can make it sound more like a tube amp, super crystal clear solid state and many more. Does that help? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

perhaps a better way to describe the sound that I'm looking for would be to say that I want something that adds body to the sound, the sound I am experiencing out of my soundcard is thin. From what I understand perhaps I am better off getting a tube amp, I have been thinking about a darkvoice 336i. I have very little experience soldering so dont know how easy it would be for me to change opamps, but I imagine changing a tube would be easy as unplugging it.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arteom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_perhaps a better way to describe the sound that I'm looking for would be to say that I want something that adds body to the sound, the sound I am experiencing out of my soundcard is thin. From what I understand perhaps I am better off getting a tube amp, I have been thinking about a darkvoice 336i. I have very little experience soldering so dont know how easy it would be for me to change opamps, but I imagine changing a tube would be easy as unplugging it._

 

Hi! The Opamp chip is mounted in a socket, so you just pull it straight up and push in the new one straight down. Very simple. No soldering! I don't remember if you said, but does your sound card have optical or coaxial out?


----------



## arteom

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi! The Opamp chip is mounted in a socket, so you just pull it straight up and push in the new one straight down. Very simple. No soldering! I don't remember if you said, but does your sound card have optical or coaxial out?_

 

yes, it has both. but im still not sure if this amp will add the body/presence that I want to add to my sound.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arteom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yes, it has both. but im still not sure if this amp will add the body/presence that I want to add to my sound._

 

I was wondering, were you thinking about going analog out of your sound card to the possible tube amp?


----------



## arteom

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was wondering, were you thinking about going analog out of your sound card to the possible tube amp?_

 

yes. RCA's seem to be what I would need to connect to. So probably would need to get a mini ro rca cable.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arteom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yes. RCA's seem to be what I would need to connect to. So probably would need to get a mini ro rca cable._

 

Ok, thats what I was thinking. My ASUS notebook audio was thin as well. What ever DAC is in there just wasn't up to the task. By going optical out, I'm by-passing the bad DAC and letting the Zero do the detailed DAC work. It made a night and day difference! Once the Zero does its thing, I can choose to listen to its headphone amp, or go analog pre-amp out to my LD MKIVse tube amp for additional tube smoothness.

 The situation I think you are in is similar. Your sound cards DAC just isn't cutting it. That is the thin sound from the analog out.
 Does this make sense to you?


----------



## arteom

yes, but from what i understand the dac in my soundcard isnt too bad. Its a cirrus logic dac, supposed to be the same dac as used in the headroom micro amp. I also was under the impression that characteristic of sound had more to do with the amplifier than the DAC. Do you think that the body/presence of sound added by this amp is comparable to a tube amp?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arteom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yes, but from what i understand the dac in my soundcard isnt too bad. Its a cirrus logic dac, supposed to be the same dac as used in the headroom micro amp. I also was under the impression that characteristic of sound had more to do with the amplifier than the DAC. Do you think that the body/presence of sound added by this amp is comparable to a tube amp?_

 

I have heard about the Cirrus Logic DAC from others, so I imagine it is OK. Someone might need a specific number of the DAC to tell you for sure. Sound card amps seem to be problematic as well. So, your "thin" problem still comes back to the analog side of your sound card. I still would recommend by-passing by using optical or coaxial out to a DAC and then analog out to an Amp. Whether you get a DAC/Amp now (fairly cost effective), and add a tube amp later or buy a DAC and a separate Amp or Tube Amp, I don't believe you are going to escape doing one or the other. One thing I know about tube amps is that if you give them a poor source, they can't do much in the way of fixing the sound quality. They do best with a super clean source. Good luck and let us know what you do. These sound card issues vary so much, it can be a challenge.


----------



## arteom

i have just one more question, how much are they paying you? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 lol, jk!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arteom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i have just one more question, how much are they paying you? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 lol, jk!_

 

I wish! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's just a really good unit and it does solve quite a few issues that many here a Headfi have been looking for an answer too, without breaking the bank. I'm 100% behind that kind of action, for sure!


----------



## d-cee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, for the purpose of the "impressionistic" review, I didn't want to assume how high up the quality ladder the Zero could compete with directly. I knew for sure it stomped all over my Entec 205.5, so I tried to keep a level playing field around that. I agree there is NO reason why it couldn't compete with $600 or higher units, I just didn't have a way to substantiate that high of an impression. I can say with confidence that it's quality and performance suggest to me that it CAN compete at that level, but like I said in the review, I wouldn't go as far as expecting it too._

 

I really respect you for this. 

 I'd love to read more of your future reviews if you maintain this style.

 There are too many people who hear one piece of good, inexpensive gear and instantly believe it is the bee's knees even if they've only heard one (or none) other the products in another price bracket.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *d-cee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I really respect you for this. 

 I'd love to read more of your future reviews if you maintain this style.

 There are too many people who hear one piece of good, inexpensive gear and instantly believe it is the bee's knees even if they've only heard one (or none) other the products in another price bracket._

 

Thanks d-cee! 

 That means a lot to me, coming from you!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The style I use is the one I like most, so I'll stick to it. I hope to do some more reviews soon. I have a couple of overlooked items coming in that might warrant a review. I've always preferred the "impressionistic" reviews more than the "comparative" reviews. Too any inherent flaws in comparative reviews IMHO. Plus, impressionistic reviews paint a better history for reading as time goes by.

 Thanks again! I'm going to go celebrate now with some music!


----------



## Henmyr

Is it possible to change the voltage to the european standard (220-230V)?


----------



## edguetzow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it possible to change the voltage to the european standard (220-230V)?_

 

I believe the power supply is installed for the appropriate voltage based on where you are located. Just email the seller for specifics to be sure, they have responded to my queries very quickly.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it possible to change the voltage to the european standard (220-230V)?_

 

This was on the spec sheet listing on eBay:
 "Input voltage of power : UNIVERSAL VOLTAGE:100-240v"

 Read here for all of the information on the Zero:
ZERO NEW 24BIT 192KHZ DAC +HEAD PHONE AMP - (eBay item 140188390838 end time Dec-15-07 21:00:57 PST)


----------



## arteom

my wallet hates you penchum 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I went ahead and ordered one, hopefully I made the right choice for my first amp. And if not I will atleast have a clean source for a future tube amp. I might also end up selling my soundcard if this works well to make some money back (my onboard sound has a coaxial out). All thats left to do is wait. I hope it doesnt take too long.


----------



## fraseyboy

Hmm... It seems the Zero has become the new TC-7510 (or what it was when it first came out).


----------



## kamal007

have you compared the zero to emu 0404 usb?


----------



## slwiser

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fraseyboy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm... It seems the Zero has become the new TC-7510 (or what it was when it first came out)._

 

But this one has a real transformer which is key around here for anything to have.


----------



## nor_spoon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slwiser* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But this one has a real transformer which is key around here for anything to have._

 

Sorry for being stupid: which one has a real transformer?


----------



## nor_spoon

Dont let this thread drown and die among all the "what are you..." or all the other "off-topic" threads... pls.


----------



## ironman64

Just out of curiosity, how many people do we have waiting in line for one from Lawrence (Biglawhk)?


----------



## enigma1406

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ironman64* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just out of curiosity, how many people do we have waiting in line for one from Lawrence (Biglawhk)?_

 

I am.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_By the way, how come no one has thought of rolling opamps in the headphone amp board? It seems like there are two socketed NE5532 in there. One seems to be for the headphone amp itself (to add gain); the other quite probably for the pre out of the DAC (when activated), as a buffer after the volume pot.

 Me, I'm playing with the idea of putting in something like the LT1361, LT1364, LT1469, AD8599, LME49720, AD746, AD8620, OPA2107..._

 

I am sure someone is thinking of it. Easy to do, go for it.


----------



## smirnoff04

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ironman64* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just out of curiosity, how many people do we have waiting in line for one from Lawrence (Biglawhk)?_

 

Me. Just ordered it on friday


----------



## jamato8

The 797 is getting some very good press lately. I am going to pick up some. They have been around for a while but I haven't read of anyone not liking them.


----------



## nor_spoon

Ordered mine on Monday...


----------



## Penchum

Well, I think all of this is a good thing. Opamp rollers are coming out in force, budget minded audio enthusiests are here in force, even folks that might normally pass on this unit do to price are here. Everyone can tell a good deal when they see it! Feel the love (for audio at a wonderful price)!


----------



## ironman64

So according to the thread, we have seven eager members awaiting their Zero:

 arteom
 dsmudger
 edguetzow
 enigma_1406
 nor_spoon
 shopper
 smirnoff04

 . . . and possibly one more, if I weren't bothered by the idea of adding to the flood the orders! 


 Let me just say, there will be great appreciation for those of you seven, possibly more, who keep us updated with details!


----------



## souperman

For those of you that want to use it with a laptop with no optical out, the TBAAM (which is only about $30) provides a good pathway. I would like to try out this DAC/Amp. How big is this unit Penchum? I don't have all that much space on my desk.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *souperman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For those of you that want to use it with a laptop with no optical out, the TBAAM (which is only about $30) provides a good pathway. I would like to try out this DAC/Amp. How big is this unit Penchum? I don't have all that much space on my desk._

 

About 8 5/8" wide by 9" deep (not including hookups) and 2 5/8" high.


----------



## edguetzow

I ordered mine Saturday night.


----------



## nor_spoon

Someone in Hong Kong is busy these days...


----------



## souperman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_About 8 5/8" wide by 9" deep (not including hookups) and 2 5/8" high._

 

Hmm...may be too big. Dang it.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *souperman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm...may be too big. Dang it._

 

I ended up stacking my MKIVse on top of the Zero. Works out pretty good!
 No heat issues either.


----------



## souperman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ended up stacking my MKIVse on top of the Zero. Works out pretty good!
 No heat issues either. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I just don't have much space period 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *souperman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just don't have much space period 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




._

 

Sounds like its time to build or buy a shelf for your desk! Put some stuff up on top of it while saving desk space below.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sounds like its time to build or buy a shelf for your desk! Put some stuff up on top of it while saving desk space below.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Or just set it on its side.


----------



## slwiser

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nor_spoon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry for being stupid: which one has a real transformer?_

 

As opposed to the a linear power supply (PS) which is not looked upon as being very good. The linear PS is what the Beresford and my Lavry have. Archaic thinking I think but lots of people disagree and the faith movement for the toroidal transformer is live and well. BTW, the toroidal transformer is one method of producing a good supply of power.


----------



## sushicide

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ironman64* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just out of curiosity, how many people do we have waiting in line for one from Lawrence (Biglawhk)?_

 

Emailed him this morning, took less than a hour to order an unit. 

 He must be making good money from us for sure, Tianyun ZERO's been selling in China for only 550-980 Yuan($74-$122USD) since Dec '06, but with US dollars pummeling like a meteor, I'm not gonna complain about the price.


----------



## jamato8

Well the Yuan is tied to the dollar so it change the value like it does in Europe and other countries.


----------



## edguetzow

Sushicide, welcome to the "waiting room" for our "babies" to be delivered!!


----------



## Penchum

Is someone keeping a running list?


----------



## smirnoff04

I see at least one of you (enigma_1406) is gunna be pairing their Zero with their DT770's. I've just ordered a pair myself, along with the zero, and hope very much I'm pleased with the results. How could I not be, I've been using my current cans for too long, any change will be a good one


----------



## SLUSHIE

I just ordered one. I'll be using it with my dt770's.

 I've really wanted to hold off on spending that much money on something like this, but hopefully once it gets here I wont regret it.


----------



## ironman64

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is someone keeping a running list? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

. . . done 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 - 12/13/07 -

 arteom
 dsmudger
 edguetzow
 enigma_1406
 jordansugars
 nor_spoon
 shopper
 slushie
 smirnoff04
 sushicide


 meaning 10 additional reviews--can't wait!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ironman64* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_. . . done 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






 - 12/11/07 -

 arteom
 dsmudger
 edguetzow
 enigma_1406
 nor_spoon
 shopper
 slushie
 smirnoff04
 sushicide


 meaning 9 additional reviews--can't wait!_

 

Ironman: "He was turned to steel, in the great magnetic field, when he traveled time, for the future of mankind."


----------



## jamato8

Ok, now I am confused. . . So this thing can also allow time travel? This is turning out to be very versatile. . . . so if you buy one and decide you don't like it . . you can travel back in time and not buy it?? Cool


----------



## enigma1406

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *smirnoff04* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see at least one of you (enigma_1406) is gunna be pairing their Zero with their DT770's. I've just ordered a pair myself, along with the zero, and hope very much I'm pleased with the results. How could I not be, I've been using my current cans for too long, any change will be a good one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That's the plan! I do think the stock DT770s have a bit too much bass to them, so I'm very curious to see how they sound through this amp.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, now I am confused. . . So this thing can also allow time travel? This is turning out to be very versatile. . . . so if you buy one and decide you don't like it . . you can travel back in time and not buy it?? Cool_

 

Maybe, but you will have turned to Steel, and we already have an Ironman!


----------



## dsmudger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The 797 is getting some very good press lately. I am going to pick up some. They have been around for a while but I haven't read of anyone not liking them._

 

Fair enough, well in that case, not having much to do while I wait for my Zero to arrive I've just also bought a couple on ebay ($8 per pair +$3 shipping USA -> UK!! That's like £5 or so all-in - unbelievable 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 Also got the adapter PCB coming in from Hong Kong - £10 delivered ($9.99 + $10 shipping international flat-rate)

 Expect I'll be doing some reviews when it all arrives (with Grado RS1 as the cans.. and maybe my Shure E500 canalphones provided I can get them repaired (
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) at some point)


----------



## dsmudger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sushicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Emailed him this morning, took less than a hour to order an unit. 

 He must be making good money from us for sure, Tianyun ZERO's been selling in China for only 550-980 Yuan($74-$122USD) since Dec '06, but with US dollars pummeling like a meteor, I'm not gonna complain about the price._

 

Yeah I mentioned somewhere (possibly in the other thread..) that I too thought about/tried getting one direct - no reply to my email so I guess they're just not interested in selling to individuals. Really glad now I didn't wait for a reply from Tianyun and just paid the £50 extra (some of which was shipping cost to be fair) to the first one to respond (Mr Chan)


----------



## nor_spoon

If only Chan could ship my box soon...


----------



## nor_spoon

Anyone know the difference between AD797AN and AD797AR?

 Which one to get?


----------



## paladinca

I just checked the official website of Zero DAC. The input voltage is "～220V50Hz±10％". 
 Link: http://www.tianyun100.com/cp.htm

 I'm wondering who made the change to make them also work under 110V.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *paladinca* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just checked the official website of Zero DAC. The input voltage is "～220V50Hz±10％". 
 Link: http://www.tianyun100.com/cp.htm

 I'm wondering who made the change to make them also work under 110V._

 

I couldn't read a thing there. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I bet they have an export version and a local version.


----------



## jamato8

Normally the transformer has two taps to allow for dropping the voltage to 240 or 120 and this is either by switch, which I like or you have to desolder and resolder some connections. The recessed switch makes it so much easier.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Normally the transformer has two taps to allow for dropping the voltage to 240 or 120 and this is either by switch, which I like or you have to desolder and resolder some connections. The recessed switch makes it so much easier._

 

Thats pretty neat. It sure would make it easy for filling orders from almost everywhere! Check where it is going and make the appropriate connections and test the unit.


----------



## ironman64

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, now I am confused. . . So this thing can also allow time travel? This is turning out to be very versatile. . . . so if you buy one and decide you don't like it . . you can travel back in time and not buy it?? Cool_

 

Yes, but to do so you'll inevitably have to appear before your former self, so please be careful not to make any contact or you'll disturb the delicate fabric of space & time . . . and the "great magnetic field."

 Trust me *looks at self* you don't want to do that.


----------



## Penchum

I sometimes like to mod my amps exterior if I find something I don't like, or find something for it I do like. For the Zero, I found this replacement knob:






 I purchased it from one of HeadFi's sponsors, Parts conneXion. It is a 26mm matte silver (just like the face on the Zero) and has a 6mm shaft diameter. So, if you get your Zero and the stock knob turns you off, just replace it with a nice one.


----------



## sushicide

Now, now, don't make us spend anymore money than we should...






 ...who am I kidding, this is head-fi after all


----------



## jamato8

Is the sound changing any on the Zero as time goes by?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the sound changing any on the Zero as time goes by?_

 

Well, I've done a little Opamp swapping, so that would be hard to determine now. I'm very confident that the majority of changes took place during my review. I reached a plateau where nothing changed for over 25 hours, so I declared it done. Even with the stock Opamp, it sounds very good. The LM4562 sounds excellent in it and I'm going to re-visit the OPA627s again here soon. It is a wonderful DAC/Amp that I find myself listening too much more often than I ever intended.


----------



## 304290

Does anyone know how this compares to the zhaolu 2.5


----------



## jordansugars

Well I ordered one of these on Tuesday night from the eBay seller snow48_6. I hadn't read this thread in depth before then and in hindsight I wonder if it would have been better to order from the other seller - anyhow I'll report back when I get the Zero.


----------



## sushicide

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *304290* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone know how this compares to the zhaolu 2.5_

 

I browsed around some Chinese sites on Sunday, a few people posted that they prefer the D2.5 because it sounded more detailed/refined & better lows but the sound stage was narrower with a higher price tag(this doesn't necessary apply here in the States); I can only read a little bit of simplified Chinese but don't know how to type it, so I couldn't search further to see if they're testing the two units as DAC/amp combo or with a separate amp.

 With a huge Asian population in my neighborhood, I'm sure I'll be able to find a Zhaolu in one of our audio stores and harass the owner to let me listen with my own cans to find out what all the fuss is about. However like folks here had been saying over and over again, keep in mind that higher performance does not always mean "good sound", personal preference is different from ears to ears, there's no way to be sure.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sushicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I browsed around some Chinese sites on Sunday, a few people posted that they prefer the D2.5 because it sounded more detailed/refined & better lows but the sound stage was narrower with a higher price tag(this doesn't necessary apply here in the States); I can only read a little bit of simplified Chinese but don't know how to type it, so I couldn't search further to see if they're testing the two units as DAC/amp combo or with a separate amp.

 With a huge Asian population in my neighborhood, I'm sure I'll be able to find a Zhaolu in one of our audio stores and harass the owner to let me listen with my own cans to find out what all the fuss is about. However like folks here had been saying over and over again, keep in mind that higher performance does not always mean "good sound", personal preference is different from ears to ears, there's no way to be sure._

 

I agree. Also, another big variable for units like this, are the Opamps installed. There are so many and so many individual tastes in sound that it is hard to even comment on them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 However, since this is Opamp swap central, I'm sure everyone will find the Opamp that really does it for them.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree. Also, another big variable for units like this, are the Opamps installed. There are so many and so many individual tastes in sound that it is hard to even comment on them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 However, since this is Opamp swap central, I'm sure everyone will find the Opamp that really does it for them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

This unit seems to be to good to be true. A dac/amp combo with swappable opamps almost for free. It will be very interesting to read some comparison review later on when more people have it.


----------



## nor_spoon

Did Chan send some of the Zeros already, or is everyone waiting for him to ship? Impatient, me?...


----------



## arteom

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nor_spoon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did Chan send some of the Zeros already, or is everyone waiting for him to ship? Impatient, me?..._

 

i ordered on the 11th, he emailed me back telling me there is a 10 day wait before they are shipped.


----------



## kamal007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I sometimes like to mod my amps exterior if I find something I don't like, or find something for it I do like. For the Zero, I found this replacement knob:






 I purchased it from one of HeadFi's sponsors, Parts conneXion. It is a 26mm matte silver (just like the face on the Zero) and has a 6mm shaft diameter. So, if you get your Zero and the stock knob turns you off, just replace it with a nice one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

too small.. =)


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kamal007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_too small.. =)_

 

For grins, I just measured the back end of the original knob. It is 28mm!


----------



## kamal007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For grins, I just measured the back end of the original knob. It is 28mm! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

lol =)


----------



## Penchum

I found out Santa is sending me some AD797's on a brown dog adapter, so I will have more to try out! Thank you Santa (and the elf that told me)!


----------



## d-cee

it's not the size that matters...


----------



## Hellenback

Has anyone compared this to a better known portable or desktop amp? Just the sound of the amp compared to say a Hornet or a Xenos 1HA-EPC. Maybe an Arietta? Somebody must have heard at least a portable we can compare the SQ to! 
 Thanks to anyone who can shed some light here or even give an opinion.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hellenback* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone compared this to a better known portable or desktop amp? Just the sound of the amp compared to say a Hornet or a Xenos 1HA-EPC. Maybe an Arietta? Somebody must have heard at least a portable we can compare the SQ to! 
 Thanks to anyone who can shed some light here or even give an opinion._

 

All the other amps I have are tube amps, so no direct comparison there. I can tell you for sure the DAC part STOMPED all over my Entec 205.2. All I can tell you about the headphone amp section is already in the review. I've been going back and running each Opamp longer to listen again and it is a real pleasure! Even the stock Opamp sounds pretty darn good. This unit is so new, only a few at HeadFi have one. Many on order... Here is where the other thread is on the Zero: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/zer...ac-amp-263482/


----------



## dsmudger

Regarding reading up on various Chinese websites - Google Translate does a pretty good job actually:

Translated version of http://www.tianyun100.com/index.htm


----------



## jamato8

Too bad you can't buy it for 680RMB ($85). I don't know how they can make it and sell it for that price even in China.


----------



## Penchum

Well, I decided to stop what I was doing and put the stock Opamp (OPA2604) back in the 'ole Zero. I grabbed my HD-650s and plugged her home, and what a surprise! It sounds great!!! It is a very nice sounding Opamp. I would say its strong point would be the variety of music it sounds good with. Also, it seems more powerful than the pair of OPA627's.

 Someone had asked about the two chips in sockets on the phones board, so I wrote down what I could see:

 5532D
 JRC
 6099B

 Both chips, the same thing. Can anyone tell me about them??


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Like I had guessed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The 5532 close to the volume pot is almost certainly the one used as a preamplifier for the headphone amp; the farther is almost surely the pre out buffer. I would change both 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 with probably a LT1364 for the former, and a OPA2107 the latter. For the opamp in the main DAC board, I'd like to try two AD797. (my phones= HD650)_

 

Well, I'm part way there! I have the AD797s on the way.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Beware: don't know how stable will the AD797 be in the DAC's output stage. It's more likely to work well in the headphone amp stage (in place of the 5532).

 That's why I'm also considering the LT1469 (or LT1468 x2) and the LT1122 x2 (with pins 7-8 shorted, to increase its speed by 25%) for the output stage of the DAC. Or the AD845. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Wow, what would happen if they weren't stable?? I hadn't read that...yet?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The AD797 is not very stable at near unity gain (which is the case for the Zero's analog stage), you see it from the ringing in the square wave response (see datasheet). In fact its capacitive load drive is quite low at unity or low gains.

 Lately some people have been using it successfully in the D1's "LR" position, as a preamplifier for the output buffers - thus at a higher gain than 1. Or, say, in the Cute Beyond, under the same condition. In the Zero's output stage it'd be somewhat a different matter - don't know what would happen since I never used this opamp before. If it should oscillate, chances are that you wouldn't be aware of it, and yet, oscillation can be dangerous.

 Consider two LT1122 on a Browndog, or two AD845, or maybe an LT1364, or..._

 

Thats interesting. I'm going to try it for sure, but I guess I'll need luck on my side.


----------



## nor_spoon

Penchum: Please keep us posted how it goes with the AD797's. Have a couple on their way myself...


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If it sounds somewhat grainy or harsh, it may be oscillating. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Great! I'll listen for that. Now the part I hate,,,waiting! Ow well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I can't wait for you guys to get your units! I may have a need for another one and I want to find out how much better the upgraded unit is compared to mine.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Was thinking that I really want to try two LT1468 (or just a LT1469) as well. This chip has distortion below -120 dB in the whole audio band, is unity gain stable, has low 10 nA Ib, is fast (22V/us slew rate, the AD797 being 20V/us) and is bipolar (not FET). Promising indeed.

 Maybe together with the LT1122's in the headphone amp section.

 LT rocks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

When you get yours, it will be interesting to hear which Opamp combos work out the best. I'm sure everyone watching will be interested too!!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sure.

 Will try the dual LT1469 for first. It's easy to do & since it has a high specified channel separation there shouldn't be meaningful performance degradation compared to two LT1468. 

 LT chips have great tonality too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








_

 

There ya go! How are you going to approach burn-in issues? If you swap too quickly, your impressions might not be complete?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, don't think I'll be as frenetic in practice as I'm in theory. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And btw, opamps hardly "burn in"._

 

Ok, just checking.


----------



## fault151

*Hi guys*, im new to this forum and joined mainly to ask a question on the zero amp. I have read all the comments and the huge review from 'penchum'. Makes a very interesting read. I recently found the amp for sale and was considering buying it. As i am aware there is a bit of a waiting list for the amp.I emailed the guy who provides them (can't remember his name as i type this) he said i have to wait ten days, similar reply to what you all got. 

 I intend to use the dac for two purposes:

 1. To link my sony cd played to the dac and through to my graham slee solo headphone amp. 

 2. To link my apple mac via an optical out to the dac and through to the solo amp. 

 Is there any reason why this wouldn't work? Also can i link the dac in between my cd player and my sony amp to my mission speakers? Will this work fine?

 Also...

 I read in the review that the dac is improved by adding the opa 627 on brown dog module. Is this a well recommended upgrade on the standard amp?

 Be great to hear some thoughts and opinions.

 Thanks, and a big *HELLO* to you all!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Hi guys*, im new to this forum and joined mainly to ask a question on the zero amp. I have read all the comments and the huge review from 'penchum'. Makes a very interesting read. I recently found the amp for sale and was considering buying it. As i am aware there is a bit of a waiting list for the amp.I emailed the guy who provides them (can't remember his name as i type this) he said i have to wait ten days, similar reply to what you all got. 

 I intend to use the dac for two purposes:

 1. To link my sony cd played to the dac and through to my graham slee solo headphone amp. 

 2. To link my apple mac via an optical out to the dac and through to the solo amp. 

 Is there any reason why this wouldn't work? Also can i link the dac in between my cd player and my sony amp to my mission speakers? Will this work fine?

 Also...

 I read in the review that the dac is improved by adding the opa 627 on brown dog module. Is this a well recommended upgrade on the standard amp?

 Be great to hear some thoughts and opinions.

 Thanks, and a big *HELLO* to you all!_

 

First, hello and welcome to HeadFi!! You should stick around. There is tons of interesting things here and nice folks too! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Yes,Yes,Yes, you can do everything you talked about with great results. The only thing I would recommend is that you get the unit and not modify it until you at least have 100hrs of up time with it. The stock Opamp is very nice and you may find that nothing else is needed. That first 100hrs will bring about changes you will like!!


----------



## fault151

Did you modify yours then? If you did why did you?


----------



## Penchum

After some deep consideration and figuring out how I want to bridge my digital equipment with my analog equipment, I came to realize that the Zero has really done an excellent job, so I have ordered a second unit. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I will use existing Zero to bridge portable equipment and my notebook with my mini system, and I'll use the new Zero to bridge digital into my vintage Pioneer stack. This is going to be great!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It will give me major flexibility with quality sound. I am also going to re-arrange my tube headphone amps. The MKIVse will be hooked to record out on the Pioneer stack and the LDII++ will be the tube amp for the mini system.


----------



## fault151

*did you modify the op amp though?* When did you order the 2nd amp? I'm so tempted o get one, i just don't know if theres any point yet as i've been told it will be mid jan before i get it


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*did you modify the op amp though?* When did you order the 2nd amp? I'm so tempted o get one, i just don't know if theres any point yet as i've been told it will be mid jan before i get it_

 

I ordered the second Zero yesterday. I have been rolling different Opamps on the first Zero for a while now. Currently, I have the stock Opamp (OPA2604)back in it. What I've been trying to accomplish is to find the best sounding Opamp for my tube amp and headphones and pre-out to my mini system. So far, the OPA627s sound didn't like my tube amp very much. The LM4562 sounded great in both situations, and the OPA2604 (stock) sounds great in both situations. For the ultimate in clarity, I've also ordered another LM4562 for the second Zero for later on. I have other Opamps on order and will try those as well.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You have to try with an LT1364..._

 

Hummmmmm
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Source??


----------



## fault151

Ok. Is it worth buying the 627 with brown dog board when i get the amp or can it be purchased from somewhere closer to the uk? I'm trying to cut the postage cost and time down.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You must buy the opamps, buy the browndogs, and solder all together... Quite a hassle compared to just popping in an LT1364. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

When I ordered mine from Lawrence, everything was socketed, so no soldering was needed. His price was better than I could get in US too.


----------



## fault151

i may give them both a try then. Providing i cant screw up the design, im keen to have a go at swapping the op amps about. 

 Penchum, when did you get told the 2nd amp will arrive?

 One other thought, they do have the correct voltage for uk? Or do i need to specify this?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i may give them both a try then. Providing i cant screw up the design, im keen to have a go at swapping the op amps about. 

 Penchum, when did you get told the 2nd amp will arrive?

 One other thought, they do have the correct voltage for uk? Or do i need to specify this?_

 

I haven't asked an arrival date yet, but the delay is due to an upgrade, so it will be worth the wait. I assumed they were using the PayPal shipping address to determine the proper voltaged unit. But now that you bring it up, it might not hurt to email them to make sure they understand.


----------



## fault151

What upgrade are you having done?


----------



## fault151

does anyone know if other peoples amps have arrived yet?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What upgrade are you having done?_

 

Ow, no upgrades by me, the seller is having an upgrade done to all units, prior to shippng them out. Look back a few pages and there is lots of talk about it.


----------



## fault151

yeh i saw that i think i got a bit confused by it. You mean the transformer? 

 Have you owned any other DACS before? I haven't.


----------



## jpstereo

I may be interested in picking one up. Which eBay seller should I be looking for? There appear to be more than one offering this unit.

 Many thanks!


----------



## fault151

i'm not sure i was about to ask the exact same thing. Who did you find?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yeh i saw that i think i got a bit confused by it. You mean the transformer? 

 Have you owned any other DACS before? I haven't._

 

I have an old Entec, which works well, but the Zero stomps it totally.
 The ebay seller I used first and now on the second was biglawhk, who is Chan Lawrence in Hong Kong. He is the one that is making sure the units transformer is being upgraded prior to shipping. He also does a 48 hr burn prior to shipping, to prevent DOA units.


----------



## jamato8

Well that is some good quality service. Any more news on opamp rolling in the Zero?


----------



## fault151

Oh right, he sounds like he has more of an interest in the amps rather than just a 'seller', which is good! So whats the difference going to be on the upgraded transformer as opposed to the older one?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh right, he sounds like he has more of an interest in the amps rather than just a 'seller', which is good! So whats the difference going to be on the upgraded transformer as opposed to the older one?_

 

All I know is that it is supposed to be more reliable, which is a quality change. I like the whole idea, a lot. Even if my first one doesn't have the upgrade!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well that is some good quality service. Any more news on opamp rolling in the Zero?_

 

Well, just what has been posted so far. I have more coming and so do several others, so I would guess there will be lots of info after the first of the year.


----------



## fault151

Am i right in thinking that it is best for a dac *not* to oversample the sound quality and to leave the input sound as it is? This dac samples at 24bit 192KHz doesn't it? 

 Does anyone know of any other dacs around the same price range and performance?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Am i right in thinking that it is best for a dac *not* to oversample the sound quality and to leave the input sound as it is? This dac samples at 24bit 192KHz doesn't it? 

 Does anyone know of any other dacs around the same price range and performance?_

 

My understanding is that it "can" go that high if the incoming stream is that high, but normally it auto-senses the incoming stream and matches it. Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## jamato8

And upsampling dac does this to all of the incoming data. Some people like it some don't. I have an upsampling dac and a dac that does nothing to the signal including no brick wall and they are different. A well done nonoversampling dac may be my favorite but dacs have come a long ways.


----------



## jamato8

Good, I prefer nonupsampling dacs. So it is a 24 bit dac, which can mean higher resolution of the 16 bit CD but often even CD's only achieve a 14 bit resolution.


----------



## jamato8

That is good to know.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good, I prefer nonupsampling dacs. So it is a 24 bit dac, which can mean higher resolution of the 16 bit CD but often even CD's only achieve a 14 bit resolution._

 

Ok so am i right in thinking that the amp/dac will not do anything to the signal unless it needs to? It will match the source? ? ?

 I think i would rather listen to an amp/dac that doesn't change to sound for me, id like the choice in the matter. 

 Correct me if i'm wrong please....


----------



## jamato8

The 24 bit is just supposed to be a higher resolution dac, it can't change a 16 bit recording to a 20 bit or 24 bit. There are recordings made with 20 bit dacs for the resolution but the redbook standard for CD, is the sampling rate and cd's are played back at 16 bit. It is the limit on actual sampling rate in the system and the bit rate that was and is often the curse of the the standard. SACD's tried to overcome this but Sony and Phillips didn't do a good job at marketing and people used to mp3 didn't see any reason to pay the extra money for SACD's nor do or did they have the system that could really resolve what a good SACD can offer. It will take something else if anything does, to give good quality sound but frankly so many people are used to crappy sound that they don't know that there could be something that could reproduce a lifelike natural sound. With all the ipods hammering away at the eardrums, who needs anything else?


----------



## fault151

I see so basically the dac wont really do anything to the sound to change it then? I t has the capability to change but doesn't due to the CD source? Correct? Sorry if i sound thick, i'm trying to get to grasps with a few things.


----------



## LostOne.TR

@jamato8 / anyone else in china

 For those who have contacts/are able to buy these units in China. I have a friend visiting Hong Kong and Shenzhen this winter break, and he's offered to pick up some audio stuff for me.

 I was wondering if anyone here had the addresses for any audio shops in Hong Kong / Shenzhen which might carry the Zero (and quite possible the little dot lineup) of audio equipment.


----------



## jamato8

I no longer live in China but there are few members here who live in Hong Kong.


----------



## LostOne.TR

Happen to know which members might be available to direct me to the location of some audio shops in hong kong?


----------



## TURBO

Listening to Silvio Rodriguez in Argentina "ojala", in my Zero. The Zero Dac is like is made for the HD600. Separation is very nice. I can hear Pablo Milanes on the left, Silvio Rodriguez in the center and someone else on right channel. Oleeee!

 I am impressed in how it sounds. Tube amps are not contenders to this baby.

 Very warm and fun sound, without sacrificing extension of other frequencies. Just close my eyes and I can transport myself to the next layer. Oh, dear........


----------



## jamato8

Sounds like great stuff. What we are all after, I think. Beam me up Scotty!


----------



## edguetzow

I was checking ebay and ran across this listing:
ZERO NEW 24BIT 192KHZ DAC +HEAD PHONE AMP - (eBay item 320197483729 end time Dec-23-07 22:23:20 PST)

 This is NOT Lawrence with whom we have dealt with these past few days. His "buy now" price is only $9.99 but the shipping cost is $169.99, so I would be wary of this seller. Ebay member since 12/8/07.

 The price works out to be about the same ($179.98) but not exactly what I believe to be honest marketing and, hence, questionable.

 My 10 days are about up so I hope to be hearing from Lawrence in the next day or so (ordered late 12/8). Then the wait for the actual shipment!!!


----------



## jamato8

I am sure it was just an oversight. :^)

 Well that is a different twist isn't it? What would be the resale value if everyone bought them for $9.99? I guess, . . . . oh maybe. . . . . make it up in shipping?


----------



## nor_spoon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edguetzow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was checking ebay and ran across this listing:
ZERO NEW 24BIT 192KHZ DAC +HEAD PHONE AMP - (eBay item 320197483729 end time Dec-23-07 22:23:20 PST)

 This is NOT Lawrence with whom we have dealt with these past few days. His "buy now" price is only $9.99 but the shipping cost is $169.99, so I would be wary of this seller. Ebay member since 12/8/07.

 The price works out to be about the same ($179.98) but not exactly what I believe to be honest marketing and, hence, questionable._

 

Seems like the seller that had the Zeros listed for same price as Lawrence made a new ebay account. Dont know why, but I noticed that both sellers had the same email address.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nor_spoon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Seems like the seller that had the Zeros listed for same price as Lawrence made a new ebay account. Dont know why, but I noticed that both sellers had the same email address._

 

I was wondering, with this other guys new "sales" tactic, would it cost way less in taxes for buyers in Europe? Value of $9.99? Just trying to find logic in a very strange thing!


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was wondering, with this other guys new "sales" tactic, would it cost way less in taxes for buyers in Europe? Value of $9.99? Just trying to find logic in a very strange thing!_

 

I think its simply a case of making you want to look at the item when you see it listed amongst the hundreds of other items available. If you know its worth £90 and you see it listed at £9.99 it's going to be intriguing to look at. I see it a lot on ebay. I swear they also do it so that some one who doesn't read the whole description will look and think 'oh my god, bargain!' and buy it straight away and then realise the postage is £90. Its just another way of getting the total amount but it looks bargain at first glances. I emailed the guy to ask if he was the same supplier as Lawrence. This is what i got "I am not clear have other people to sell this commodity, the regret - snow48_6" What is that supposed to mean? I'm baffled!


----------



## nor_spoon

At least to Norway, parcels with value lower than about 35USD is free, gifts with value under 180USD can be sent free without having to add taxes. Everything over those amounts, must be declared by customs and that process will add +25% tax of total amount (item+shipping) + another 40USD for handling fees, not to forget another 4-7 days it takes to get through.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think its simply a case of making you want to look at the item when you see it listed amongst the hundreds of other items available. If you know its worth £90 and you see it listed at £9.99 it's going to be intriguing to look at. I see it a lot on ebay. I swear they also do it so that some one who doesn't read the whole description will look and think 'oh my god, bargain!' and buy it straight away and then realise the postage is £90. Its just another way of getting the total amount but it looks bargain at first glances. I emailed the guy to ask if he was the same supplier as Lawrence. This is what i got "I am not clear have other people to sell this commodity, the regret - snow48_6" What is that supposed to mean? I'm baffled!_

 

I think that means "no". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I looked a little while ago. I think this guy is the same guy who was selling at the same time and in competition with Lawrence. He has the same blue background on his spec sheet and same pics. Lawrence usually puts up a quantity each week and his adds have stayed the same over time. I don't think they know each other. It is weird "the other guy" has changed his selling tactic (which most likely will not work) and I bet he changes back again.


----------



## nor_spoon

It is the same guy, because of the same background and identical emails. Seems a bit weird and untrusty IMO.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nor_spoon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is the same guy, because of the same background and identical emails. Seems a bit weird and untrusty IMO._

 

It does seem weird! Ah well as long as the items turn up in the post and we get charged the right amount, who cares.


----------



## nor_spoon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It does seem weird! Ah well as long as the items turn up in the post and we get charged the right amount, who cares._

 

Excactly! Maybe those who order from him will even get their Zeros faster...
 Many of us are still waiting for the Zeros to ship...


----------



## fault151

have none of them arrived yet? Thats the only thing that puts me off, i hate having to wait for items to arrive. Its fine if i can track where they are, but when i get told it will be 'about' ten days, its a little off putting.


----------



## jpstereo

I just got the same reply from Lawrence. "current batch spoken for ... will need to wait 5-10 days for availabiltiy." I appreciate the quick response but wonder how many more days it may actually take. I will hold off for now until I see some deliveries.


----------



## fault151

Thats exactly what i thought. I'm after one, but i'm also going to wait for a bit until they arrive in stock. The post is slow moving here so it wouldn't arrive for ages anyway.


----------



## smirnoff04

Just to update any interested parties, my order placed on Dec. 7th hasn't been shipped out yet.

 On the bright side, my DT770/80's arrived yesterday!


----------



## fault151

So much for the 10 day wait. I think i'm going to wait till i place an order. I'm looking forward to hearing what other people think of the DAC.


----------



## d-cee

eBay sellers do that because ebay take a cut out of your final sale price, but iirc not your delivery cost

 so basically it's so that they have to pay less fees to ebay


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *d-cee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_eBay sellers do that because ebay take a cut out of your final sale price, but iirc not your delivery cost

 so basically it's so that they have to pay less fees to ebay_

 

Ah, I hadn't thought of that! Very cleaver. 

 Their profit margin has to be very low on this item. I have a feeling they want to get into the market and are almost using this as a leader.


----------



## OhmPapa

Lawrence-Quote:

 "The payment detention is because the fitting supply is not prompt, in 
 addition needs to assemble the time which and to test.To this matter I 
 expressed that was sorry very much"


----------



## edguetzow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OhmPapa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lawrence-Quote:

 "The payment detention is because the fitting supply is not prompt, in 
 addition needs to assemble the time which and to test.To this matter I 
 expressed that was sorry very much"_

 

Duh, what does this mean, OhmPapa? Sorry for being obtuse! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 What exactly did you ask him? Is he explaining the 10 day wait for shipment or have our orders been delayed?

 Thanks!


----------



## OhmPapa

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edguetzow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Duh, what does this mean, OhmPapa? Sorry for being obtuse! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What exactly did you ask him? Is he explaining the 10 day wait for shipment or have our orders been delayed?

 Thanks!_

 

I only asked him why the delivery is late, and why the price was changed. 
 I think there must be some kind of manufacture problems


----------



## Cecala

I was thinking of getting the Headroom Max+Max setup. I wonder how this compares considering the zero's negative 10 times the cost difference?


----------



## Jeff J.

Hey guys, I ordered my Zero from snow48_6 on ebay way back on Nov 30th and still haven't received it yet. Anyone else order from this guy receive theirs yet or any indication of whats up? Is this the same guy as Lawrence everyone is talking about? I'm getting worried now..

 I've got my OPA627s ready to rock with my Zero and just eager to finally get the thing...

 UPDATE: Just got an email back from "JIN XIN" with the following reply:
 "Yesterday already sent out through EMS, about probably one week may"
 So hopefully it actually comes.. I'll let everyone here know! Doesnt look like this is the same guy as Lawrence so it might not have the upgrades but oh well..


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jeff J.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys, I ordered my Zero from snow48_6 on ebay way back on Nov 30th and still haven't received it yet. Anyone else order from this guy receive theirs yet or any indication of whats up? Is this the same guy as Lawrence everyone is talking about? I'm getting worried now..

 I've got my OPA627s ready to rock with my Zero and just eager to finally get the thing...

 UPDATE: Just got an email back from "JIN XIN" with the following reply:
 "Yesterday already sent out through EMS, about probably one week may"
 So hopefully it actually comes.. I'll let everyone here know! Doesnt look like this is the same guy as Lawrence so it might not have the upgrades but oh well.._

 

I think the hold up is the upgrade, plus the sudden demand. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Can't say for sure, but everything seems to have hit them at the same time. I'm glad yours in on the way! Did he give you a tracking number? The EMS tracking number will be the one USPS uses when the package hits customs. Then you can (sort of) track it through USPS until it arrives.


----------



## Penchum

I emailed Lawrence this morning and inquired about the delays. Much to my surprise, here is his reply:

 Dear Sir ,

 Tomorrow I'll ship out 50pcs and will let all know the tracking no.

 Thank you very much !

 Best regards,
 Lawrence

 I would say this covers just about all of us!!!


----------



## dsmudger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I emailed Lawrence this morning and inquired about the delays. Much to my surprise, here is his reply:

 Dear Sir ,

 Tomorrow I'll ship out 50pcs and will let all know the tracking no.

 Thank you very much !

 Best regards,
 Lawrence

 I would say this covers just about all of us!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








_

 

Ah cheers for forwarding that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 FWIW I ordered on the 8th and haven't heard anything yet...


----------



## fault151

you'll have to let us know if the email arrives!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you'll have to let us know if the email arrives!_

 

Sure will. But it looks like everyone will get their tracking numbers. My second unit included, which I ordered on Sunday, 16th.


----------



## fault151

yeh im tempted to order one but i'm not sure if theres any point yet with it being x-mas. Post is very very slow and it wont get here for quite some time. *Well hope they arrive for you all!*


----------



## jpstereo

It'll be interesting to see if any of the 50 units end up on eBay or perhaps thay are already spoken for. I would be a bit concerned about the possibility of these units being rushed out the door and not having had a full QC inspection and burn- in treatment.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jpstereo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It'll be interesting to see if any of the 50 units end up on eBay or perhaps thay are already spoken for. I would be a bit concerned about the possibility of these units being rushed out the door and not having had a full QC inspection and burn- in treatment._

 

Here is part of his quote: "Tomorrow I'll ship out 50pcs and will let all know the tracking no." It's pretty safe to assume they will all be in the mail. Considering we all knew he was working the units, I would still think he kept to his standard and will ship only when this group is ready to go out. I don't know how busy the Hong Kong post gets on the holidays, but its safe to think once the US orders clear customs and enter into the USPS, things will slow down some, but I'm hopeful.


----------



## jpstereo

To those who have ordered one, please do let us know your impressions once received. I remain very interested in the Zero....


----------



## fault151

me too.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I don't know how busy the Hong Kong post gets on the holidays, but its safe to think once the US orders clear customs and enter into the USPS, things will slow down some, but I'm hopeful. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well over here in the Uk i think the post must be arriving on horse back! Its very slow!


----------



## sushicide

Ugh, hope it doesn't arrive during the week when I have to go to my parents' for the holidays. The postal service here is pretty spotty at best, I sure don't want my package snatched or drenched in snow/rain because it's left carelessly on the driveway.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sushicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ugh, hope it doesn't arrive during the week when I have to go to my parents' for the holidays. The postal service here is pretty spotty at best, I sure don't want my package snatched or drenched in snow/rain because it's left carelessly on the driveway._

 

Ow, that was a vision! Can you go to the Post Office and put a hold on deliveries until you return?


----------



## edguetzow

Woo Hoo!!!!!!!!! Got my email notification from Lawrence! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 "Dear Sir ,
 Your parcel is on the way , tracking no XXXXXXXXXXXXX , Hongkong Post é¦™æ¸¯éƒµæ”¿ ,air mail( 7-10 days ) . Please let me know when you receive it .
 Thank you very much !
 Best regards,
 Lawrence"

 Now for another wait!


----------



## enigma1406

I just got the same email. Now the real waiting starts.


----------



## nor_spoon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edguetzow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Woo Hoo!!!!!!!!! Got my email notification from Lawrence! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

X2


----------



## arteom

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nor_spoon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_X2_

 

X2


----------



## dsmudger

Hmm I din't get one... *sniff* 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Would people who got the email mind posting what date they ordered? (Dec 8th in my case..)


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dsmudger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm I din't get one... *sniff* 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Woudl people who got the email mind posting what date they ordered? (Dec 8th in my case..)_

 

Me too, but I have to remember, he's got 50 to ship out. I expect the email sometime today.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok right now I'm set on using LT1364 in DAC and LT1364 in AMP as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

Hey Shopper! Can you explain to the rest of us why the LT1364? I've just been too busy to scope them out. Thanks!!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Because it is a great sounding dual opamp. It is very fast (1000 V/us), but more than that it's a rare case where transparency and liveliness are combined with a very musical character thanks to a colorful tonality and a great bass. What else to say. 

 End of LT1364 elegy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Sounds Yummy! I'll be looking for them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks!!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Because it is a great sounding dual opamp. It is very fast (1000 V/us), but more than that it's a rare case where transparency and liveliness are combined with a very musical character thanks to a colorful tonality and a great bass. What else to say. 

 End of LT1364 elegy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

So, you'll be ordering 3 then? 2 for the head amp section and one for the main board, or did you have some other "tweekery" up our sleeve?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I already have as many LT1364 as I could ever desire. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 No, nothing else, I first have to see the thing up close and wait for an inspiration. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hehehee
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What did you do, order a bulk lot of them? No biggie! If you have extra, others will want them, I'm sure!


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Because it is a great sounding dual opamp. It is very fast (1000 V/us), but more than that it's a rare case where transparency and liveliness are combined with a very musical character thanks to a colorful tonality and a great bass. What else to say. 

 End of LT1364 elegy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

So what do you mean by this "liveliness" and "transparency"? Can you define this in a verbiage that all can interpret? And how do you mean "combined" as in mixed together like a slurry of sound? And what is colorful tonality and "great bass"? Is there a definitive explanation that my mind can wrap around and understand? . . . . . . . 

 Oh wait. . . . I use those terms. . . . . damn, no wonder I don't know what I mean. . . . . . . . never mind. . . :^)


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_People should trust & follow their inspiration (for lack of a better word), rather than some arbitrary guidelines made by others, pretending to be exact and all-inclusive. Everyone's hearing is unique. You have to sense whose hearing resembles your own. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Very good advice. I hope others read it and will think about it.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Very good advice. I hope others read it and will think about it._

 

All true. One thing that gets me though, is the 20-30 unit comparative reviews. By the time you are done reading all of them, you have a headache from all the varieties of flowery words being used. I think thats a bad place for them. Better to have them in impressionistic reviews. IMHO. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ow, I almost forgot. Jamato8, have you ordered a Zero yet? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sorry to keep asking, but I figure the temptation will get you eventually.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All true. One thing that gets me though, is the 20-30 unit comparative reviews. By the time you are done reading all of them, you have a headache from all the varieties of flowery words being used. I think thats a bad place for them. Better to have them in impressionistic reviews. IMHO. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ow, I almost forgot. Jamato8, have you ordered a Zero yet? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sorry to keep asking, but I figure the temptation will get you eventually. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I want to very, very much but I have been moving around as of late and don't have a very long term address to have it sent to. Frustrating to say the least.


----------



## sushicide

How long did it take you guys to get your LT1364 samples? I ordered mine last month and haven't seen anything...maybe they got lost in the mail :d


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sushicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How long did it take you guys to get your LT1364 samples? I ordered mine last month and haven't seen anything...maybe they got lost in the mail :d_

 

Were they in stock or was there a run date?


----------



## sushicide

hmm...just checked mylinear, it was shipped 2 weeks ago; meh it probably got lost, I'll just make another order and have it go to my parents' place. Can't really trust USPS here...


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sushicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How long did it take you guys to get your LT1364 samples? I ordered mine last month and haven't seen anything...maybe they got lost in the mail :d_

 

Hummm. Ok. I'm feeling dumb,,again. Is it possible to get samples from someone? How does this work? I guess I haven't run into this topic before.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just go to Linear Technology - Linear Home Page , search for LT1364, and click on "request samples" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Cool! Didn't notice that before! Done! Thanks!!!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Please let us know..._

 

Do you mean if they come? Or, how they sound when they arrive? Or both?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...your impressions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You bet! Are they pretty good about sending them out? That would be great! I did have a question for you. Wasn't it you that also bought the MK1 portable amp?


----------



## edguetzow

Just to give a little update on our shipments.

 My tracking indicates that my parcel has "Arrived and is being processed" in the US.

 In regards to the opamp chip mentioned (L1364), how many chips are required? I have never had the opportunity to try such a switch as I'm a newbie to this stuff! I think I might try it if your positive reviews warrant the attempt. Firstly though, I want to try the Zero with its onboard chips.


----------



## Hellenback

I've been watching this little unit since I first saw it on ebay (and there were only 2 pages of impressions in this thread)! Can anyone save me a lot of time and sum up it's sound and value? Is it as good as some of the well known DACs and if so which ones have been compared? Thanks for any help anyone can provide.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edguetzow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just to give a little update on our shipments.

 My tracking indicates that my parcel has "Arrived and is being processed" in the US.

 In regards to the opamp chip mentioned (L1364), how many chips are required? I have never had the opportunity to try such a switch as I'm a newbie to this stuff! I think I might try it if your positive reviews warrant the attempt. Firstly though, I want to try the Zero with its onboard chips._

 

Good to hear your Zero's on the way! Yep, you got the right idea. That stock Opamp (OPA2604) sounds pretty darn good after the initial break-in. Later on, a good one to try is that LM4562. There are two additional ones that can be changed out, but the main one on the main board has the biggest impact. When I get those 1364s in, after some time with them, I'll post my thoughts here, so others can decide if they want to give them a try or not. Have a good one!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hellenback* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been watching this little unit since I first saw it on ebay (and there were only 2 pages of impressions in this thread)! Can anyone save me a lot of time and sum up it's sound and value? Is it as good as some of the well known DACs and if so which ones have been compared? Thanks for any help anyone can provide._

 

Well, it is still so new that only impressions exist so far. After the review, I did compare the DAC side with my Entec 205.2 and the Zero was much better (stock Opamp OPA2604). The headphone amp section is great, but nothing SS to compare it too yet. As you can see in the detailed pics on eBay, ZERO NEW 24BIT 192KHZ DAC +HEAD PHONE AMP - (eBay item 320197483729 end time Dec-23-07 22:23:20 PST) it is a quality build with less than 1% tolerances. The other thread http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/zer...ac-amp-263482/ has some additional impressions as well. I've used and abused mine and it sounds wonderful. For the price, there isn't anything out there right now that compares features, specs, SQ and build quality without costing much more. It is a sweet deal. Have a good one!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They will certainly want to give them a try anyway... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 as a sure upgrade from the OPA2604.

 You only need 1 LT1364, to put in the main DAC board. If you want, you can try and use it in the headphone amp board, too._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here are the best ideas I came up with so far for upgrading the analog stage of the DAC: LT1364, LT1469, LME49720, AD826. Pick yours 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Will probably just have to try them all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

We just knew you would! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It would also be nice to make a mini list of Opamps that work well with ALL types of music, like the OPA2604 does. That way, if someone wishes to optimize to all types, they have less of a challenge finding a sweet one. ? Do you think that's a good idea?

 Also, a separate list of ones for the headphone amp board might be useful as well. I've been thinking about that one for a while. ? Do you think that's a good idea too?

 Later....


----------



## fault151

when it comes to trying your own op amps is there anything that you need yo look for? I heard you mention dual and single op amps. Do different systems use different ones? Am i correct in thinking that dual op amps mean you need two of them?

 I don't really understand.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A stereo DAC's analog stage requires two opamps to filter/buffer each channel. Dual opamps (like those found in the Zero) are two in one. So if you want to use single opamps in the Zero, you need to mount two of them on some kind of two-singles-to-one-dual adapter (like those by Browndog). Putting a single opamp in a socket for a dual opamp will probably burn your opamp._

 

Why would you want to put two singles in to the zero? What advantages would it have?


----------



## fault151

Oh right i see. So all you would do is buy two good singles and put them in an adaptor and slot them on to where the original op amp was? I take it they obviously have to be a matching pair. If i get on of these DACs will you advise of places i can buy the op amps from and advise at which ones would work.


----------



## fault151

yeah that be great. I haven't ordered one yet as i was waiting for other peoples orders to come through first. 

 One last question: Does having two single op amps as opposed to one dual op make any difference in sound? I wondered if the principle of two are better than one would apply to this???


----------



## JonM

I would like to know what came with it besides the box itself (power cords, anything else)?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JonM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would like to know what came with it besides the box itself (power cords, anything else)?_

 

Power Cord, Owner's Manual and 3' Retail optical cable.


----------



## JonM

Ah thats ace, so basically everything you need to hook it up. I'm seriously considering buying this as it suites my needs perfectly.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JonM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah thats ace, so basically everything you need to hook it up. I'm seriously considering buying this as it suites my needs perfectly._

 

Good for you! This seller: ZERO 24/192 DAC D A CONVERTOR , HEAD FI AMP , BRAND NEW - (eBay item 230206044408 end time Dec-29-07 23:33:03 PST) is the one most have been using on ebay. The unit he sells has an upgraded transformer, while the other sellers units, haven't been verified yet. So, this is probably the best way. Good luck, and happy holidays!!


----------



## IceClass

Psssst...don't tell the wife but I just ordered one.
 Head-Fi.org should be illegal.


----------



## jamato8

So what other major dacs and amps has this been compared to? Any more?


----------



## edguetzow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *IceClass* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Psssst...don't tell the wife but I just ordered one.
 Head-Fi.org should be illegal._

 

LOL! My wife already knows and I'm still breathing!

 Just finished all my Christmas shopping yesterday so I'm not in the doghouse anymore. Now, I can concentrate on further spoiling myself and add an extra gift or two for the better half. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Of course, I'll go through much the same this 2008 when I spring for a Gilmore!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So what other major dacs and amps has this been compared to? Any more?_

 

Sorry! I think some may get theirs on Monday, or Wednesday. Nothing more major than my Entech 205.2, which it stomped on. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You should get one for the flexibility it will give you with all your other goodies! Happy Holidays!


----------



## JonM

Ordered mine today. I guess im in for quite the wait?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JonM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ordered mine today. I guess im in for quite the wait?_

 

Well, maybe not so long. I ordered mine (2nd) on the 16th and Lawrence thought I'd be in that first batch of 50, but I wasn't. I got an email from him and he said the next batch should ship on the 26th or 27th. Maybe you'll get lucky and be on the tail end of this next batch!! Have a happy holiday!


----------



## JonM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, maybe not so long. I ordered mine (2nd) on the 16th and Lawrence thought I'd be in that first batch of 50, but I wasn't. I got an email from him and he said the next batch should ship on the 26th or 27th. Maybe you'll get lucky and be on the tail end of this next batch!! Have a happy holiday! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Seems it might be. He just emailed me with the tracking number and everything. Looking good.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JonM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Seems it might be. He just emailed me with the tracking number and everything. Looking good._

 

It's Merry Christmas to you and me. I got my notice with tracking number too!


----------



## dsmudger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Me too, but I have to remember, he's got 50 to ship out. I expect the email sometime today. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Turns out he just forgot mine (perhaps because I ordered by emailing him direct/didn't go through eBay)

  Quote:


 Dear Sir ,

 I am sorry I omit your order due to so many orders.

 I'll compensate my fault with a free of charge OPAMP upgrade to DY2000 which it have a characteristic as smooth as silk , rich tube sound .

 Analog device DY2000 (dual, ceramic)
 Price: US$20
 Comment : These chips makes the sound more valve like than the tube sound ever did if that can possibly make any sense! Melodious, slightly laid back and warm yet it brings out every last bit of detail from a recording. Overall a very nice sound. A kind of hybrid valve and solid state mix which gives the best of both worlds. Nice smooth valve like mids and highs with lovely solid state bass oomph . This is the Op amp for those who prefer a valve like sound but would also like a solid state bottom end delivery. With this Op amp you can have your cake and eat it. Smooth as silk.

 I hope you can accept it . And the next batch will come next week .

 Thank you very much !

 Best regards,
 Lawrence 
 

Pretty cool 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I emailed back to ask him if he'd include the original op-amp in the box so I can hear/compare with the original Zero sound - he agreed but said to just be careful as installing it wrongly can break the DAC.. will bear that in mind 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Will see how I get on with it (anyone here know much about this DY2000/ceramic?), but biggest benefit I reckon is that now I'll have two single-dual adaptors (got an AD797 + brown-dog adaptor still in the post from HK/USA as well).

 Also can anyone here offer any advice on which way round might be best to try the two replacement amps? (i.e. which in the preamp and which in the headphone stage/what difference it makes?)


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dsmudger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Turns out he just forgot mine (perhaps because I ordered by emailing him direct/didn't go through eBay)



 Pretty cool 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I emailed back to ask him if he'd include the original op-amp in the box so I can hear/compare with the original Zero sound - he agreed but said to just be careful as installing it wrongly can break the DAC.. will bear that in mind 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Will see how I get on with it (anyone here know much about this DY2000/ceramic?), but biggest benefit I reckon is that now I'll have two single-dual adaptors (got an AD797 + brown-dog adaptor still in the post from HK/USA as well).

 Also can anyone here offer any advice on which way round might be best to try the two replacement amps? (i.e. which in the preamp and which in the headphone stage/what difference it makes?)_

 

Wow! Thats a stand up guy for sure! I also have AD797s on BDA coming. With a brand new unit, I would be tempted to put the stock OPA2604 back in, burn-in the unit for at least 100hrs, then try swapping in a different one and giving it 50hrs listening, then try the other for 50hrs. This will be great fun as each matures and reveals it's unique signature! Then, to re-establish your "base line", swap back in the OPA2604 and listen critically. Then repeat the swaps again, listening critically. The one you like best will be very obvious during that last swap. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Don't be shocked if the OPA2604 makes you want to listen to it more. It can do that! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have a feeling the AD797s will blow us both away!!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The AD797 is not unity gain stable. You shouldn't use in the Zero's analog stage. Instead you might be able to use it in the headphone amp (I might try myself).

 This DY2000 sounds interesting. I want it too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well, I asked Lawrence about the AD797s and he said it was an excellent upgrade. He has it listed on his "cheat sheet" of upgrades too. So, I'm still thinking it would be worth giving a try. Maybe I'll do it on the unit I have burnt-in already and see how it goes! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If the headphone stage was the only do-able situation, would you have to have two sets then?


----------



## IceClass

I ordered one from Lawrence yesterday and had an email with tracking number first thing this morning.
 Says it should be here in 7-10 days.
 Just enough time to get overstuffed and bored with Xmas and liven things up with a fresh infusion of toys.


----------



## dsmudger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I asked Lawrence about the AD797s and he said it was an excellent upgrade. He has it listed on his "cheat sheet" of upgrades too._

 

Oh yeah, he sent me that too - here it is in full - makes for interesting reading 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 Dear Sir ,

 Personally I like DY2000 but the bass is less than 797. Western people like rich bass and it is different from Asian .

 If you like bass , 627 is the best .

 The op-amps used are generally of poor quality, corrupting the analogue signal, having a disastrous effect on the sonic capabilities of the CD player. The effects are a smearing of detail, reduced dynamics, congestion of instruments on complex music passages causing a mass of sound, rather than a spacious, airy, sound stage. The quality of the mid-high frequencies is particularly poor, where the mid-band is brittle and aggressive, and higher frequencies are edgy, cold and fatiguing to listen to.
 The following op-amps produce the poorest results; NE5534, NJM2114, NE5532, NJM4558, NJM4560, AD711, AD712, LM833.
 The performance of op-amps from different manufacturers varies considerably. Therefore, selecting a single type of op-amp to meet the parameters required for the analogue output stage involved analysing data sheets and conducting many listening tests.
 The important parameters for sound quality are high speed (or bandwidth) low THD, fast settling, and low input noise. The most natural and musical sounding were FET-Input types as opposed to bipolar.

 Burr Brown OPA 627 BP(single, ceramic) on Browndog adaptor 
 Price: US$28 each (Total US$56 for 2 singles) Browndog adaptor $5 Total: $61
 Comment: Two words sum this chip up........ "absolute class" This is single chip and it was necessary to fit two single channel 627's onto a single to dual Browndog adaptor which Adapts two single-channel DIP-8 op-amps to a dual DIP-8 pinout. These 2 single channel op amps absolutely trounced anything that had gone before them ..... the width of the soundstage, the clarity and the sheer presence make this my choice of op amp for use in the Chiarra without a shadow of a doubt. The sound is just so "clean", so "natural", so "musical" and so "detailed" with the 627's on board. The Burr Brown 627 "is" headphone heaven....... absolute class act.

 LM4562(dual, ceramic)
 Price: US$30.
 Comment : A "Very" revealing chip, sound similar to the OPA627 but puncher around the edges. I found this chip gave out "way" too much information for my liking. It is analytical to the point that certain pieces of music can become impossible to listen to, especially bad recordings, it reproduces every last detail / imperfection with microscopic accuracy which, at times, can be detrimental to the overall enjoyment of the music. For those that love a warts and all insight into the music then this is the star of the show but it may not be to everyone liking. It may be an op amp which can beat OPA627. 

 Burr Brown OPA2604 (dual, ceramic)
 Price: US$10.
 Comment: OPA2604 sounded very warm, very laid back and very easy to listen to but slightly veiled in the detail department. "Chocolaty" and "syrupy" though a good easy to listen to Op amp., This may just be what the doctor ordered for those who like a laid back, thick, chocolaty, easy going and easy to listen to sound.

 Linear techonolgy LT1057(dual, ceramic)
 Price: US$20,
 Comment: Without a shadow of a doubt this op amp is the star of the the centry. Easy to listen to, easy to pick out every last detail and ever so natural. There was an ethereal quality to the sound that only ever heard on high quality loudspeaker based systems. It's hard to put what this op amp does into words but listening to the sound with it on board is as close to headphone heaven. Very analytical.

 Linear techonolgy LT1028(single, ceramic) on Browndog adaptor 
 Price: US$15 each (Total US$30 for 2 singles) Browndog adaptor $5 Total: $35
 Comment: It provided very similar results to the LT-1057 but each component of the sound was treated to an additional air of realism and effortless delivery that was immediately evident.

 Linear techonolgy LT1028(single, metal) on Browndog adaptor
 Price: US$25 each (Total US$50 for 2 singles) Browndog adaptor $5 Total: $52
 Comment: It provided very similar results to the LT-1028 but the sound is ten times better LT-1028 with their punch , detail , range of frequency ….. especially the naturality.

 Analog device AD797 (single, metal)
 Price: US$25 each (Total US$50 for 2 singles) Browndog adaptor $5 Total: $52
 Comment : Smooth, highly analytical, warm, uncoloured, laid back yet all detail is present (and then some) Very electrostatic quality to the sound with that super solid state bass underpinning the proceedings without overwhelming them. Start and stops are followed by an inky black silence and the timbre of the drums is very realistic indeed. Something that is very evident with this op amp is it's inherent ability to provide accurate timing which I really do like! There is no bass overhang, the drums start and stop as they should and, as a result, the timing is pretty much spot on. This is like listening to music with a stethoscope with the metronome ticking away in the background but it also adds a touch of valium to make the experience very bearable and extremely enjoyable.


 Analog device DY2000 (dual, ceramic)
 Price: US$20
 Comment : These chips makes the sound more valve like than the tube sound ever did if that can possibly make any sense! Melodious, slightly laid back and warm yet it brings out every last bit of detail from a recording. Overall a very nice sound. A kind of hybrid valve and solid state mix which gives the best of both worlds. Nice smooth valve like mids and highs with lovely solid state bass oomph . This is the Op amp for those who prefer a valve like sound but would also like a solid state bottom end delivery. With this Op amp you can have your cake and eat it. Smooth as silk.

 Analog device DY2000 (dual, metal)
 Price: US$35.
 Comment : It provided very similar results to the DY2000 ceramic but the sound is ten times better with their punch , detail , range of frequency ….. especially the naturality.


 Thank you very much !

 Best regards,
 Lawrence 
 

(oh oh, I can already see I'll probably have to get the metal version to compare 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## ptiJean

Great! Let us know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I already have a LM4562 waiting, the zero dac should arrive soon


----------



## jamato8

Interesting, they are using the ceramic form vs plastic on the opamps. I haven't used the ceramic forms before as they are not easy to find. I do not like the LM4562 because to me it is HiFi sounding and after some listening that seems good at first lacking in a musical quality but detailed as described. The 627 doesn't have the strongest bass but in the right system with the correct voltage and current supply, it should sound very good. 

 Nice bit of information in the post above. Opamps for this are like ink cartridges, you can buy the printer for 100 dollars and the cartridges cost half what the printer did. At least opamps don't run dry.


----------



## jamato8

The LME49720 is close to the 4562 but imo sounds better, more musical. It should be an interesting listen.


----------



## fault151

Hi guys, i just wanted to ask, can i use this dac just on it's own without using the headphone amp? I already have a headphone amp which i want to connect to the dac as well as my cd player. Will this all work together ok?


----------



## sushicide

just use the analog out to your amp.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys, i just wanted to ask, can i use this dac just on it's own without using the headphone amp? I already have a headphone amp which i want to connect to the dac as well as my cd player. Will this all work together ok?_

 

Yes indeed! The cool part is you can plug in your headphones to the Zero any time you want and press the "phones" button to listen to the Zero's headphone amp. So, you gain an "extra" way to listen to headphones if you want too.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks! Just what I was hoping to hear. I have tried them in too different amps to be able to compare them.


 Also LT1364 + OPA627 should be good, anyway. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






 Ouch... since Lawrence mentioned "the Chiarra" I'm not too sure that the AD797 and LT1028 were actually tested in the Zero 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I think we'll be ok. I just found the list from my first purchase from Lawrence and it has been updated since then. Also, he told me in that email that he is looking forward to supporting his Zero buyers by recommending Opamp upgrades via his list and providing them at better prices from his location.


----------



## fault151

ok cheers for your replies. Is there a date that the amps are expected to arrive?


----------



## smirnoff04

Mine got shipped out 3 or 4 days ago. They should be here in a weeks time more or less. Hopefully just in time for my getting home from christmas holidays.


----------



## fault151

oh thats not too bad then. I wonder how long it would be if i put an order in????


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now that was interesting to read. Unfortunately the list didn't include LME49720 (a close relative to LM4562 anyway - perhaps identical?), LT1364, LT1469, LT1122, LT1115, AD845, AD826, LM6172.

 The LT1364 and LT1469 are "better" chips (for audio) than the LT1057 on paper (which I don't have) so...

 It's also very nice to see that chips that aren't normally unity gain stable like the LT1028 and AD797 would work well in the Zero. Then all those Browndogs I just ordered this morning make more sense 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 These folks are proving really competent._

 

I find Lawrence's approach to Opamps quite refreshing and informative. Giving his impressions of each one on it's own merits and giving you a reference point by telling you which is closest, is probably the best way to "inform" others. If a person searches here and finds posts like those surrounding the iBasso D1, so many posts are about which Opamp is better than any other, or better than groups of other Opamps and then the next post disagrees and derails the whole thing. Reading these almost gives you a headache after while.

 It would be so cool to have a Stickied "HeadFi Master Opamp Listing" that is in the same format that Lawrence is using. It would be a great reference tool especially for folks who are just getting into Opamp rolling. It would also save them money by letting them make a solid decision about which is best within their budget. It might seem like a super challenge at first, but users like Jamato8 have extensive and fair impressions of many Opamps in DAC usage, and those impressions would make for a excellent working foundation. Later, if wanted or needed, the list could be divided up into sections for "CD Players", "DACs", "Pre-amps", "Portable DACs", "Portable Amps" and the like. I don't think this list should get any more specific than that though, or it would be inviting disagreements in personal taste. Of course, this whole idea is just "IMHO", but I would help develop it as much as I could. Any thoughts on this? Anyone?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, but I don't want to (nor I probably would anyway) be the first to try with the AD797. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








 Btw, did Lawrence recommend those opamps only for the analog stage, or also for upgrading those two 5532s in the headphone amp board? Did he mention this at all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Just the analog stage, and I forgot to email him about the headphone amp board. Sorry. I've just had too much on my plate this close to Christmas! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I'll email him on the 26th and ask if he has any recommendations for the headphone board. Hopefully, he'll have another nice list!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_oh thats not too bad then. I wonder how long it would be if i put an order in????_

 

It appears he is caught up now. I'd guess it would ship within a few days and then 5-7 work days for shipping.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It appears he is caught up now. I'd guess it would ship within a few days and then 5-7 work days for shipping. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

oh right, good. I have sent him a message about them amp. It may be a few days before a reply due to xmas day tomorrow. Cheers.


----------



## arteom

Its Here!!! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....ahem, sorry.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arteom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Its Here!!! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....ahem, sorry._

 






 Santa went postal!


----------



## JonM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arteom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Its Here!!! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....ahem, sorry._

 

First impressions?


----------



## arteom

I like it! 

 Well ok, I will say just a few thing. the thin sound that was coming out of my soundcard is definitely gone, now I get a much nicer full bodied sound, the bass is tighter, soundstage better defined. I am using a Denon D2000 set of phones. 

 I am starting to fall in love with this thing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but really I think its much too early, I need to spend some time with my new toy!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 btw: I received a optical cable with the unit, how nice.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arteom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I like it! 

 Well ok, I will say just a few thing. the thin sound that was coming out of my soundcard is definitely gone, now I get a much nicer full bodied sound, the bass is tighter, soundstage better defined. I am using a Denon D2000 set of phones. 

 I am starting to fall in love with this thing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but really I think its much too early, I need to spend some time with my new toy!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 btw: I received a optical cable with the unit, how nice._

 

Well done! Don't forget, the next 100hrs are "magic" hours. Things get very interesting (or addictive) during this time. That OPA2604 Opamp ain't to bad out of the gate, huh!


----------



## arteom

I am new to op amp rolling, never done it before. I will listen to this for some time before I try to swap anything out. Hey got a question though, would you recommend I leave headphones plugged in during the burn in or no?


----------



## jamato8

You need a load for the amp or you aren't going to be burning much in. Some type of headphone should be plugged in.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arteom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am new to op amp rolling, never done it before. I will listen to this for some time before I try to swap anything out. Hey got a question though, would you recommend I leave headphones plugged in during the burn in or no?_

 

Good idea, waiting on the Opamp business. Both the pre-amp and the headphone amp inside the Zero have capacitors, so both will eventually burn-in. I would recommend plugging in your headphones and driving them for the first 100hrs of burn-in. This will burn-in the majority of the components and give you some serious sound!


----------



## sushicide

The heck, how did you get yours so quickly? My tracking # has been stuck at "Item left HK" since the 22nd....aii....


----------



## JonM

Well it IS coming from china afterall.


----------



## IceClass

I dunno why I keep coming back and reading this thread.
 It's just making me impatient for my unit to arrive.


----------



## enigma1406

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *IceClass* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I dunno why I keep coming back and reading this thread.
 It's just making me impatient for my unit to arrive.



_

 

Definitely. I think that's true for most of us!


----------



## Penchum

It's because ANY news is good news when you are waiting! Don't worry though, I would bet many of them are sitting in customs waiting to be accepted and processed. When customs accepts them, they show up in the USPS system under the same tracking number you were given. You can then have the USPS system send you email updates.


----------



## Henmyr

The opamps should be MDIP right? For exemple LM4562NA MDIP.

 EDIT: And where can I found the Browndog adaptor?

 EDIT2: Hmm LT1057 only come as SOIC and PDIP. I assume its the PDIP. 
 Which one of these is the correct one to use?:
 LT1057ACN8 PDIP
 LT1057ACN8#PBF PDIP
 LT1057CN8 PDIP
 LT1057CN8#PBF PDIP

 EDIT3: And where do one buy Analog device DY2000 (dual, metal)?

 (EDIT4: Found the answer, BP
 Correct one?:
 OPA627AP PDIP
 OPA627APG4 PDIP
 OPA627BP PDIP
 OPA627BPG4 PDIP)


----------



## Henmyr

double post


----------



## d-cee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_EDIT3: And where do one buy Analog device DY2000 (dual, metal)?_

 

Eddie Wu @ diykits


----------



## andyinstal

Possibly stupid question here, but, is this an upsampling DAC? Is it upping all inputs to 24/192 before analog output? I have a Darkvoice 336i coming (eventually) and wanting a new DAC to use. I am currently using the DAC in my Denon DVD 5000 for playback of my Escient Fireball and my Sony SACD for CD playback, since the Denon will not play CDRs. Thanks for any help!


----------



## Capunk

Sorry abit off-topic... 

 Does "OPA637BP" is a single-opamp (which need 2 to works as dual?) ?
 Does BP & AP has differences? both suitable for headphone amp?


----------



## d-cee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Capunk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry abit off-topic... 

 Does "OPA637BP" is a single-opamp (which need 2 to works as dual?) ?
 Does BP & AP has differences? both suitable for headphone amp?_

 

the OPA637 is single, depends on the amp design it may need to be mounted on a 2 x single > dual browndog adaptor but not always

 the BP has better specs, and usually less variance whether or not it is better for audio is arguable, see Notes on Audio Op-Amps for more info


----------



## fault151

iv just ordered my new dac! can't wait to get it. Theres quite a few of us now waiting, this new zero dac should get a serious amount of testing from us all, the reviews will be very interesting to read!


----------



## ataraxia

What is the retail price of the Zero?


----------



## dsmudger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *d-cee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Eddie Wu @ diykits_

 

Has anyone done a compare-'n-contrast with the metal and ceramic? Lawrence is sending me a ceramic one with the Zero but if he hasn't posted mine yet, I'm wondering whether I should chip in the difference and see if he'll do me a metal one instead?

 I appreciate it's all personal taste and what-have-you, but I'd love to hear what people on here have to say all the same..


----------



## jamato8

I haven't used any of the ceramic but I would like to. It would be interesting to have both and see if there is any difference.


----------



## d-cee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dsmudger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone done a compare-'n-contrast with the metal and ceramic? Lawrence is sending me a ceramic one with the Zero but if he hasn't posted mine yet, I'm wondering whether I should chip in the difference and see if he'll do me a metal one instead?

 I appreciate it's all personal taste and what-have-you, but I'd love to hear what people on here have to say all the same.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I have both. At the time of testing I couldn't get the metal one to behave inside my amp. Kept getting this high frequency ringing sound but it went away depending on where I put the amp, I think it was picking up interference from something nearby.

 When I got it working, the metal DY2000 and ceramic have more in common than not. a bit more detail across the frequency range but overall same sound sig.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *d-cee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have both. At the time of testing I couldn't get the metal one to behave inside my amp. Kept getting this high frequency ringing sound but it went away depending on where I put the amp, I think it was picking up interference from something nearby.

 When I got it working, the metal DY2000 and ceramic have more in common than not. a bit more detail across the frequency range but overall same sound sig._

 

Would you consider the DY2000 to be a "keeper"? Thanks!


----------



## d-cee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would you consider the DY2000 to be a "keeper"? Thanks!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It was one of my favourite opamps in my Heed Canamp and Zhaolu D2.0

 Used in either device it had this amazing deep bass texture that was nothing I'd heard before. I couldn't figure out whether it was some sort of distortion/clipping but it just sounded like the bass took on this extra depth and body it was amazing with my K701s

 However, it is a bright sounding opamp, and has a bit of treble sizzle which at the time worked in my favour, but people using bright gear might find it too much. I don't have any gear that uses opamps now (have a PPAv2 on its way, but that uses single opamps) so I can't really comment so much anymore.

 But in the Zhaolu, that I suspect the Zero DAC is based largely on it was great.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *d-cee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It was one of my favourite opamps in my Heed Canamp and Zhaolu D2.0

 Used in either device it had this amazing deep bass texture that was nothing I'd heard before. I couldn't figure out whether it was some sort of distortion/clipping but it just sounded like the bass took on this extra depth and body it was amazing with my K701s

 However, it is a bright sounding opamp, and has a bit of treble sizzle which at the time worked in my favour, but people using bright gear might find it too much. I don't have any gear that uses opamps now (have a PPAv2 on its way, but that uses single opamps) so I can't really comment so much anymore.

 But in the Zhaolu, that I suspect the Zero DAC is based largely on it was great._

 

Ow ya, I saw your "Tubes" pic, very nice indeed! I couldn't resist putting in a pic of my MKIVse. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for the opinion. Even though I like bass, I can't tolerate excess brightness for very long. I suspect that is why I keep going back to the OPA2604 stock Opamp. When I want to do serious listening, you'll find me with my HD-650s plugged into the MKIVse. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Have a happy holidays!


----------



## jamato8

So how is the Zero holding up to "Serious" listening? There must be some comparos by now.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So how is the Zero holding up to "Serious" listening? There must be some comparos by now._

 






 I think those folks who got theirs just before Christmas, are still burning them in. I'm not even sure how many of those will be able to "compare" it to other units. I have a MKV on the way, but I think they are in different class for comparison. I'm watching, hoping to see the same type of comparisons, like with the Zhaolu. That would give many an idea where it stands compared to "what was" some time back. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I do like using the Zero as a bridge for running digital sources into my Vintage Pioneer analog stack. Very clean, clear and dynamic!


----------



## jamato8

I am looking for a giant killer. A 130 dollar amp/dac to go up against a 1000 dollar or more unit. Having built my own equipment and having been around high end audio for years I see no reason a well done, well thought out and implemented unit can not/will not do it. Plenty of clean power, the correct chips, a good output, inexpensive labor and there you go. The Pico is an itty bitty thing and it is being compared to some heavy hitters and doing well. 

 Let the bout begin.


----------



## arteom

this is maybe a stupid question, keep in mind i am a newb; what would be the benefit of using the Zero as a pre-amp for an amp? Is it simply to listen to the sound signature of the amp? Like for example to listen to the the tube sound of the mkIV. Wouldn't the problem of feeding current to a current hungry set of cans be solved by a unit such as the Zero? 

 I was considering getting an amp before the Zero arrived to my doorstep, but now I can't really see the benefit of getting one. 

 -arteom


----------



## jamato8

What type of amp are you looking for? One for speakers or for headphones? The Zero is a dac and amp for headphones.


----------



## arteom

for headphones, at the moment anyway.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arteom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_for headphones, at the moment anyway._

 

Well the Zero is an all in one. There aren't any separate preamp to amp setups for headphones that I know of. I have made them up and like the sound but most everyone uses a headphone amp that incorporates the preamp and amp together. In a solid stage HP amp you may have opamps at the input driving output buffers. The input opamps are like the preamp and the buffers are the amp suppling the current needed to drive the phones. Tube amps may have driver tubes that have the signal raised in voltage and some current by a power tube. You could have a 6DJ8, for example, going to a tube that drive headphones. There are all types of configurations.


----------



## arteom

well like penchum here for example, using the zero as a pre-amp for his mkIVse, what would be the point of doing that? Would it simply be to add the "unique" processing/sound of the mkIV to the signal? 

 to rephrase my question.


----------



## jamato8

Well you could have the mkIV with the volume to max so it would be like an amp and then use the Zero like a preamp by using its volume. The Zero doesn't see a real load so it will react differently as the load goes to the mkIV. You have two different power supplies so it is possible to improve upon the dynamics and other qualities of the sound but that is up to the individual to hear or not. I think it is more important in speaker systems but it can work on headphones of course.


----------



## JonM

Ok I'm starting to get impatient!

 This is my first dac/amp so I am really excited. Its leaving hong kong today, apparentally.


----------



## d-cee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arteom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_this is maybe a stupid question, keep in mind i am a newb; what would be the benefit of using the Zero as a pre-amp for an amp? Is it simply to listen to the sound signature of the amp? Like for example to listen to the the tube sound of the mkIV. Wouldn't the problem of feeding current to a current hungry set of cans be solved by a unit such as the Zero? 

 I was considering getting an amp before the Zero arrived to my doorstep, but now I can't really see the benefit of getting one. 

 -arteom_

 

pre-amps are usually used in conjunction with power amps such as mono blocks. these have no volume control of their own and only one input and so a pre-amp is required to control the volume and usually as a source selector, but not always

 in headphone world, most all headphone amps have integrated volume controls so you wouldn't use the Zero's variable outputs, just it's straight line out. having multiple volume controls in the signal usually is a bad thing.


----------



## d-cee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How "high resolution" is the DY2000? Comparable to the OPA627 and LM4562?_

 

I haven't heard the OPA627 (yet), compared to the LM4562 and AD843 I had at the time it isn't as detailed, but it is more musical than the LM4562. It is more detailed than the AD823 and OPA2604 that I also used at the time in my Zhaolu


----------



## captainbrendo

I'm thinking of getting the zero or the ibasso d1. Also looking at the headphonia lyrix too. Don't care about portability. Anyone got/heard these? Need to pull some more bass and clarity out of my 595s. 

 anything that would put the zero ahead of the other amps I mentioned?


----------



## dsmudger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *d-cee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have both. At the time of testing I couldn't get the metal one to behave inside my amp. Kept getting this high frequency ringing sound but it went away depending on where I put the amp, I think it was picking up interference from something nearby.

 When I got it working, the metal DY2000 and ceramic have more in common than not. a bit more detail across the frequency range but overall same sound sig._

 

Cool thanks - I've mailed Lawrence again to see what he thinks/whether RF noise is likely to be an issue if using the metal version and whether he'll do me some sort of deal to pay the difference (might as well... seems from what you say it's unlikely I'd prefer the ceramic, and what-with the weak dollar and all, the price difference is only about what I spend on lunch most days 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dsmudger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cool thanks - I've mailed Lawrence again to see what he thinks/whether RF noise is likely to be an issue if using the metal version and whether he'll do me some sort of deal to pay the difference (might as well... seems from what you say it's unlikely I'd prefer the ceramic, and what-with the weak dollar and all, the price difference is only about what I spend on lunch most days 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)_

 

I've joined in the middle of a conversation which i noticed you were talking about 'metal' and 'ceramic', what do these refer to? Are they some sort of resistor? Sorry if you repeat your self, i couldn't find the post where it was all mentioned.

 Is it an upgrade for the zero because i have just ordered one.


----------



## jamato8

They are talking about the opamp.


----------



## fault151

oh right. What does the dac come with? I spoke to lawrence and i ordered the opa627 on browndog module. 

 So whats the difference in the 'ceramic' and 'metal'?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am looking for a giant killer. A 130 dollar amp/dac to go up against a 1000 dollar or more unit. Having built my own equipment and having been around high end audio for years I see no reason a well done, well thought out and implemented unit can not/will not do it. Plenty of clean power, the correct chips, a good output, inexpensive labor and there you go. The Pico is an itty bitty thing and it is being compared to some heavy hitters and doing well. 

 Let the bout begin._

 

Honestly, I think you should try the Zero for just this kind of "bout". You have far more sources and other DACs for validation than I do. Within the confines of the equipment I have, the Zero is every bit as good as the rest of them performance wise. This would have to mean it's true position is higher than I can validate. This should put it in the neighborhood you are looking for. No one else has a unit in this price/performance category, so it is the target of choice. What do you think? Ow, and Happy Holidays!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arteom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well like penchum here for example, using the zero as a pre-amp for his mkIVse, what would be the point of doing that? Would it simply be to add the "unique" processing/sound of the mkIV to the signal? 

 to rephrase my question._

 

Sorry I'm so late getting to this. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 When I use the Zero to drive my MKIVse, it is so I can use my digital sources, like my CD players or my notebook. I'll go Optical out of the source, into the Zero for processing, then out of the Zero (analog) to my MKIVse. Like most "tube" headphone amps, the MKIVse has only analog in. What is nice about the Zero, is that anyone who has digital sources could get one, enjoy it now (with its built-in headphone amp), save up, and if they want too, buy a "tube" amp later and just add it on. The Zero works extremely well in this kind of setup.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dsmudger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cool thanks - I've mailed Lawrence again to see what he thinks/whether RF noise is likely to be an issue if using the metal version and whether he'll do me some sort of deal to pay the difference (might as well... seems from what you say it's unlikely I'd prefer the ceramic, and what-with the weak dollar and all, the price difference is only about what I spend on lunch most days 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)_

 

I hope this goes through for you. It would be exciting to hear your impressions vs the stock Opamp! Let us know if he can do this.


----------



## Penchum

I have a bit of disappointing news. My AD797s should have been here by now and HK post shows them in route to the US, but the USPS doesn't recognize the shipping number. I notified the seller, and he is having HK post do a tracking to try and find them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 "Wilson!, Wilson!"


----------



## dsmudger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hope this goes through for you. It would be exciting to hear your impressions vs the stock Opamp! Let us know if he can do this. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Seems I was too late - he posted my Zero on the 24th (hooray!)

 He seemed almost a little offended when I said I might change it later, saying as I understand it, that the DY2000 ceramic is his favourite regardless of cost 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 so all-good, I'll just see how I get on with it and maybe look at swapping for the metal a bit later down the line (and depending on whether I like the sound of the DY2000 in general compared with the stock amp seeing as d-cee mentioned they're of a similar character)


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd like to know if the metal can version is easy to insert into the DIP socket. The pinout should be the same as a dual DIP opamp; but the pins are arranged in a circle. Are they long enough to be bent? Never used this kind of opamp package._

 

I must have missed the circle pin arrangement? I saw a pic of one and thought it was the standard arrangement? I'll look some more.


----------



## d-cee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd like to know if the metal can version is easy to insert into the DIP socket. The pinout should be the same as a dual DIP opamp; but the pins are arranged in a circle. Are they long enough to be bent? Never used this kind of opamp package._

 

it comes installed on a DIP-8 socket


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *d-cee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_it comes installed on a DIP-8 socket_

 

Thanks d-cee! That explains the small rise in price too.


----------



## dsmudger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a bit of disappointing news. My AD797s should have been here by now and HK post shows them in route to the US, but the USPS doesn't recognize the shipping number. I notified the seller, and he is having HK post do a tracking to try and find them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 "Wilson!, Wilson!"_

 

I haven't seen any sign of mine either - just emailed the two eBay guys I ordered from to see what's up... :\


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Look here, page 3

http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/opa2111.pdf_

 

Thanks Shopper! I've looked at so much stuff lately, its a wonder I can remember anything!!


----------



## mapstec

I just did it!
 Paypaled Lawrence and now the hardest part begins.

 I hate waiting!!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *d-cee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_it comes installed on a DIP-8 socket_

 

d-cee, I'm trying to help out someone else who is using a cd player, then a Zhaolu d2.0, then to a MKIVse. He is suffering a lack of Bass for his tastes and I was wondering if you could recommend an Opamp for the Zhaolu that might fix his situation? Thanks!


----------



## davve

Wich Opamp suits HD650 best of them you have mention in the thread.


----------



## davve

okey, shopper what do you think of the OPA627 is it worth the money?
 Its kinda expensiv i think..is the LT1364 easy to get hands on?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Probably just the LT1364 (or 2x LT1363). It has a tonality that perfectly suits my HD650; the same goes for it's balance, I'd say.

 In the Zero you may use it both in the DAC board and in the headphoneamp board; though I always tend to prefer to combine different opamps with complementary sonic characters. The LT1364 would go very well combined with an LME49720 or the OPA627, for instance, probably with the AD797 too._

 

I asked Lawrence about the DY2000 and this was his reply to me: "But most of the western people like bass , so 627 or 797 will be more suitable."
 I think it's time for me to put my OPA627s back in the Zero for some critical listening. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Wilson!,,,Wilson! Where are my 797s!


----------



## nor_spoon

This might have been answered before, but would the 797AN's require an Brown Dog adaptor to work with the Zero?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nor_spoon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This might have been answered before, but would the 797AN's require an Brown Dog adaptor to work with the Zero?_

 

Yes indeed! Most are selling them including the adapter.


----------



## davve

May i ask what gear you have?


----------



## davve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A Cambridge Audio D300SE CD player which I have tweaked; (I'll leave out the speaker setup); the incoming Zero or a Xenos 1HA-EPC modified with LME49720 and LT1364; and the HD650._

 


 okey nice setup! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 you never listen from your computer?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep the OPA627 is indeed worth the money. It is very classy, like Lawrence said. But, I find it a little bit dull in timbre. If it only had the timbre of the LT1364 (as well as its bass articulation) it would be my perfect opamp. Luckily we have a lot of choice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As I said before, the LT1364 can be had, in small quantities (like 2), by requesting them as free samples on Linear Technology - Linear Home Page (don't abuse it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )_

 

Ok, I just re-installed my OPA627s on the dog, and dropped her in, and I'll have to admit, they really are great, especially if you like BASS! This is like having a tube amp hiding in your Zero! The mids are almost buttery like a tube amps! What a cool effect. I sure wish my 797s would show up so I can do a direct comparison of 627s vs 797s. I sure like what I'm hearing though!!


----------



## davve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, I just re-installed my OPA627s on the dog, and dropped her in, and I'll have to admit, they really are great, especially if you like BASS! This is like having a tube amp hiding in your Zero! The mids are almost buttery like a tube amps! What a cool effect. I sure wish my 797s would show up so I can do a direct comparison of 627s vs 797s. I sure like what I'm hearing though!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 sounds good! but the bass isn't overwhemling?


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep the OPA627 is indeed worth the money._

 



 Iv ordered mine with the opa627 installed so i'll let you know my opinions and thoughts when it arrives.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sounds good! but the bass isn't overwhemling?_

 

Not particularly. I was just listening to some old Black Sabbath which has tons of bass all by itself, and it was an easy listen. It is good bass, not sloppy or booming.


----------



## davve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not particularly. I was just listening to some old Black Sabbath which has tons of bass all by itself, and it was an easy listen. It is good bass, not sloppy or booming. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 


 have you it hooked up with your little dot or using the built in amp?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_have you it hooked up with your little dot or using the built in amp?_

 

Right now, I'm just listening to the Zero's built-in amp. This thing will really crank too! I'll try pre-out to the MKIVse after while and see if I like what I hear.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Right now, I'm just listening to the Zero's built-in amp. This thing will really crank too! I'll try pre-out to the MKIVse after while and see if I like what I hear. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ok, just went pre-out of Zero to the MKIVse. I currently have the Philips and Western Electric tubes in. I was right. The 627s in the Zero make it more like a tube amp and when you pre-out to a tube amp, it is too much "tube". I had expected this. When I had the LM4562 in the Zero, or the stock OPA2604, the pre-out to the MKIVse was amazing! If a person had a Dark Voice tube amp, they wouldn't like the 627s at all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Too much tube is too much tube.


----------



## Penchum

I disconnected the MKIVse and hooked up my Super T-amp to the pre-out. This sounds great! I have these nice little modified AR speakers and they sound fantastic! It is funny to see their little 6 inch woofers jumping in and out! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But, it sounds clean and full spectrum with plenty of bass.


----------



## Jeff J.

Hey guys, I snapped some pics of my new Zero yesterday and noticed there are some subtle differences with the model Penchum reviewed. The transformer looks to be a bit taller and some of the capacitors are a different color. Anyone else notice any variance with their units? I ordered mine from Snow48_6 on ebay.

 Still burning it in, but initial impressions are great! Highly detailed with a very well delineated soundstage. Still on the bright side though with the OPA627s, but I hope it will settle down some. I've only listened to it a bit with my AKG 701's which are bright to begin with. If it doesnt mellow out more though it might not be a very good amp for the 701s but we'll see...


----------



## Penchum

That is the upgraded transformer. Nice! Don't worry, the 627s will start rolling in the bass here pretty soon and even the K701s should be able to reproduce them accurately. Nice pics!!


----------



## Penchum

Ow, before I forget, you'll want to give the entire unit at least 100hrs before critical listening. Many nice changes will happen during that time frame. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What a nice clean looking unit. I'm just so impressed with the build quality on the Zeros. Thats why I bought two!


----------



## davve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jeff J.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys, I snapped some pics of my new Zero yesterday and noticed there are some subtle differences with the model Penchum reviewed. The transformer looks to be a bit taller and some of the capacitors are a different color. Anyone else notice any variance with their units? I ordered mine from Snow48_6 on ebay.

 Still burning it in, but initial impressions are great! Highly detailed with a very well delineated soundstage. Still on the bright side though with the OPA627s, but I hope it will settle down some. I've only listened to it a bit with my AKG 701's which are bright to begin with. If it doesnt mellow out more though it might not be a very good amp for the 701s but we'll see...














_

 


 Great photos! you don't have use it as a preamp? you don't have a standalone amp?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ow, before I forget, you'll want to give the entire unit at least 100hrs before critical listening. Many nice changes will happen during that time frame. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What a nice clean looking unit. I'm just so impressed with the build quality on the Zeros. Thats why I bought two!_

 

2? Different locations I guess or an investment? :^) Would probably do better than the stock market. Though the news today was sad.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_2? Different locations I guess or an investment? :^) Would probably do better than the stock market. Though the news today was sad._

 

Ow, I see what you mean. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 One for a bridge to my Vintage Pioneer stack, the other for my HeadFi gear. This sounds like a luxury, but at the small cost, it will be advantageous.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Those two green caps near the opamp appear to be of lower quality than the blue box type caps of the ebay photos. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm curious. Why do you think they'd be lower quality? I can see how it gained them a little room for the adapted Opamps. I can't make out a brand on them.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Because those caps are notoriously, for a audio electronics hobbyist, a cheap mass-production grade of polyester caps. Just the same used in computer speakers' active electronics. They're rather in contrast with the rest of the parts on the board. What can I say....maybe they had run out of the other ones._

 

Well, he did say this unit was from the other seller. Maybe they approached this transformer modification differently and decided to swap out those blue caps at the same time? We can always hope!


----------



## jamato8

Maybe they are decoupling caps....ouch.. . even as bypass caps I would want something else.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Surely. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Which ones are in yours, btw?_

 

Mine has the blue box type, but the old transformer.






 If you look close, they are hiding in the shadow of the adapter.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmmm... the box ones read "560p" that is 560pf I believe... see here. They're much more likely to be in the feedback network of the opamp.



 Oh well, if that's what they put in there maybe they're not crucial anyway. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Penchum - thanks for the pic!_

 

No problem. I checked Lawrence's eBay add and he hasn't changed his pics. If his units come with that change, then I'll feel it was one of those "doesn't matter" situations.


----------



## jamato8

I have seen mica caps used for that. I still like to use the best going but it depends upon application as well. Polystyrene would be nice but maybe unnecessary.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have seen mica caps used for that. I still like to use the best going but it depends upon application as well. Polystyrene would be nice but maybe unnecessary._

 

Maybe those are two green M&M's and we are all being fooled!


----------



## Penchum

I hope nobody minds, but I sent the pic to Lawrence and asked him if his Zero's had been modified like this one. We'll see what he says. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just couldn't wait.


----------



## d-cee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_d-cee, I'm trying to help out someone else who is using a cd player, then a Zhaolu d2.0, then to a MKIVse. He is suffering a lack of Bass for his tastes and I was wondering if you could recommend an Opamp for the Zhaolu that might fix his situation? Thanks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

to be honest no amount of opamp swapping will equal a zapfilter or Oritek mod at the output stage... after a while i had enough with opamp rolling and got a discrete output stage installed

 best decision ever

 surprisingly though, the bassiest combo i used but not as detailed or dynamic was OPA2111 in the middle position and OPA2107 on the sides

 depends on the type of bass too, the above was doof doof bass, but for punchier faster bass, the AD843 on a browndog combined with 2 x AD823 is very punchy but also a bit bright


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *d-cee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_to be honest no amount of opamp swapping will equal a zapfilter or Oritek mod at the output stage... after a while i had enough with opamp rolling and got a discrete output stage installed

 best decision ever

 surprisingly though, the bassiest combo i used but not as detailed or dynamic was OPA2111 in the middle position and OPA2107 on the sides

 depends on the type of bass too, the above was doof doof bass, but for punchier faster bass, the AD843 on a browndog combined with 2 x AD823 is very punchy but also a bit bright_

 

Thanks so much! I'll forward your comments on to him.


----------



## jamato8

What is the output section of the Zero amp?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Btw, the Zero has a single-stage analog buffer, having a voltage output DAC. Less opamps is nice._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What is the output section of the Zero amp?_

 

It was hidden at the bottom of Shopper's post.


----------



## jamato8

So what buffer is it?


----------



## d-cee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Must be very nice - but opamps do sound very good (and not all discrete circuits sound as good or better)._

 

agree, some people are too anti-opamps, but i see that they have their place and application when implemented correctly. that being said however, my OMZ is just worlds ahead of the opamp output on the Zhaolu

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Btw, the Zero has a single-stage analog buffer, having a voltage output DAC. Less opamps is nice._

 

yeah the above only applies to the Zhaolu D2.0 not even the D2.5 since for some reason the D2.0 needs 3 dual opamps for its output stage, the D2.5 needs 2 duals and the new D3.0 needs 2 singles (makes more sense)

 What's the output stage of the Zero like?


----------



## pompon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *d-cee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_being said however, my OMZ is just worlds ahead of the opamp output on the Zhaolu
 ?_

 

I own a OMZv4 and my reference still my soundcard (X-Meridian). Probably matter of taste ... I think a good opamp is very very good.


----------



## Jeff J.

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm curious. Why do you think they'd be lower quality? I can see how it gained them a little room for the adapted Opamps. I can't make out a brand on them._

 

Whats interesting is when I opened up the amp, I noticed these green caps were already bent outward, as to anticipate the clearance of a brown dog or similar... Maybe this is why they switched to this design? Regardless, I'd be game for swapping them if the difference was worthwhile!


----------



## Krendopolis

Hello Mr Penchum. I bought one of these gadgets the same day you did, though I was placed in line for the new and improved zero and waited a month and a 1/2 for it. You might have got the last "old" one they had. Well one week into ownership mine no longer works. It was very electrically sensitive. Turning the tv (which it had no direct connection to) off/on would disable it. I would have to power it on/off to get it to work again. That is probably what led to its current state. It powers on, all indicator lights work, but no output from the headphone jack nor from the regular rca dac outputs and that is from both inputs. I enjoyed the sound quality from this dac/preamp while it lasted. This is a cautionary tale for prospective owners. I'm waiting to hear back from Lawrence. Maybe I will be able to send it to someone with troubleshooting and soldering skills for a revival.


----------



## arteom

you know one problem I keep having with the unit is that if I leave it turned on for a long time (like a day or so) its S/N ratio seems to go up, to the point where I have to have the volume at 9 o'clock or less for it to be bearable. This is simply fixed by turning the unit off and turning it on again, but still. Is this something that should worry me? Or might this be fixed with time?

 also a sort of crackling sound gets into the signal at times. I think that may have something to do with my source though, so it doesnt worry me like the problem above does.


----------



## jamato8

Sounds like a grounding issue with a buildup of a charge on the board somewhere, or not. I wonder if anyone else is having this problem.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jeff J.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Whats interesting is when I opened up the amp, I noticed these green caps were already bent outward, as to anticipate the clearance of a brown dog or similar... Maybe this is why they switched to this design? Regardless, I'd be game for swapping them if the difference was worthwhile!_

 

I just got a reply from Lawrence. He says the cap changes are part of the upgrade, so I guess we shouldn't worry. I know one thing, the Brown dog adapter I put in mine touches the caps below it. I bet this could be a problem after some time. I've left about 1/8" gap on purpose (paranoid).


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Krendopolis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello Mr Penchum. I bought one of these gadgets the same day you did, though I was placed in line for the new and improved zero and waited a month and a 1/2 for it. You might have got the last "old" one they had. Well one week into ownership mine no longer works. It was very electrically sensitive. Turning the tv (which it had no direct connection to) off/on would disable it. I would have to power it on/off to get it to work again. That is probably what led to its current state. It powers on, all indicator lights work, but no output from the headphone jack nor from the regular rca dac outputs and that is from both inputs. I enjoyed the sound quality from this dac/preamp while it lasted. This is a cautionary tale for prospective owners. I'm waiting to hear back from Lawrence. Maybe I will be able to send it to someone with troubleshooting and soldering skills for a revival._

 

Hello Mr Kendopolis. That is indeed unfortunate. My guess is he will have you ship it back to him for replacement. But, you are right, wait until you have word before anything else. Even though I share your worry, I have to think about all things considered first. The chance that one out of 50 (that we know about) having a failure is even better than US stats, so I like you hope there isn't a trend. Keep us posted, please. I'm sure we all want to see how this is handled by the other end! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Also, before I forget, if you bought with PayPal, you have other avenues if cooperation is not up to expectations.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sounds like a grounding issue with a buildup of a charge on the board somewhere, or not. I wonder if anyone else is having this problem._

 

Thats interesting. I haven't noticed that before. However, I'm using my HD-650s (300ohm). I wonder if lower load phones could play in this? I would still email Lawrence and tell him what was going on. It may be something simple.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arteom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you know one problem I keep having with the unit is that if I leave it turned on for a long time (like a day or so) its S/N ratio seems to go up, to the point where I have to have the volume at 9 o'clock or less for it to be bearable. This is simply fixed by turning the unit off and turning it on again, but still. Is this something that should worry me? Or might this be fixed with time?

 also a sort of crackling sound gets into the signal at times. I think that may have something to do with my source though, so it doesnt worry me like the problem above does._

 

Tell us about your source. Are you hooked up Optical? I must explain, it's late, I fell down the stairs tonight and jammed my spinal fusion, so I had to take bunches of pain medication. So, I'm not the brightest bulb tonight. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've never heard of a crawling S/N ratio before. But please, tell us the particulars and send an email off to Lawrence and give him the details and describe what is happening. My guess is that if it has happened before, he most likely has heard about it. It is possible that the entire thing could be the source as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_jamato8, if you meant the internal headphone amp - it looks like it has a preamplifying opamp, followed by a single ended transistor driving the complementary transistor pair class A output stage. Very much like the Rudistor NX-01 for instance._

 

I was curious again. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Are there two Opamps in the headphone amp board? I remember you and I discussing the two identical socketed chips on it, but what do we think their purpose is now? Is this a possible area of upgrade later? If it is, I know you are drooling.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One opamp, the one closer to the volume pot, is the dual preamplifier opamp of the headphone amp circuitry; the other near the headphone jack is (well not perfectly sure, but that is for now) the one (still dual, for stereo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) buffering the preamp out, which is probably employed at unity gain. Of course you can upgrade both! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 How about three DY2000?_

 

I did a little snooping around about those this afternoon. The populace seems to give it a thumbs up! Did you read the post earlier about the crawling S/N ratio?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Meaning a malfunctioning? If so I feel lucky... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It just seems very weird. I can't seem to get my head around it. He says that if he turns off the DAC, and turns it back on, the gained S/N ratio goes back to normal. The first thing I thought was "break the connection and everything goes back to normal". He is getting noises from his source. Hummm


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ordered two DY2000 ceramic. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

One for you and one for me! Ow thank you!!


----------



## fault151

i just noticed that the zero dac is 220v power, in the UK its 230-240, will it still work ok? i bloody hope so. It's already on its way. someone please let me know.


----------



## zer061zer0

Nope no problem. it will work


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zer061zer0* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nope no problem. it will work_

 

oh thats good to know. Will there be any change in sound at all??


----------



## edguetzow

Just got my Zero delivered and it arrived as Penchum described. No damages or adverse marks on the unit itself. Nice optical cable - better than the thin cheapie that I had on hand.

 I will set up later and start burning it in and listen to my tunes!


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On this site I just noticed that there's a DAC called "SUPER Pro DAC 707" that's using the LT1364 opamps. You can surely tell that I liked it immediately 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What is good to know is that my idea is shared by someone else. DY2000 vs. LT1364, which one will win? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Who makes the LT1364 Op amps? Mine is coming with opa627's and i wouldn't mind trying them out.


----------



## fault151

ok i'll have a quick look. Would i just need the one then if i decided to order it? I haven't seen many pic's inside the dac. What else you upgrading on yours? Whens it due to arrive?


----------



## fault151

is this the link to the one you mean? Linear Technology - LT1364 - Dual and Quad 70MHz, 1000V/µs Op Amps LT1364 LT1364CS8#TR LT1364CN8#PBF LT1364CS8 LT1364CN8 LT1364CS8#TRPBF LT1364CS8#PBF


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On this site I just noticed that there's a DAC called "SUPER Pro DAC 707" that's using the LT1364 opamps. You can surely tell that I liked it immediately 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What is good to know is that my idea is shared by someone else. DY2000 vs. LT1364, which one will win? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hey Shopper, you like the purple colored one! Nice and bright! Ya know, if my wife sees that, it's game over! Total purple freak! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I too hope my LT1364s get here soon. Something in the back of my mind says they will be a very close match to each other!


----------



## fault151

If i am ordering the LT1364 op amp, which one out of the following is it i need for the zero dac?

 LT1364CN8#PBF

 LT1364CS8

 LT1364CS8#PBF

 they are the three choices on their site, im not sure which i need?


----------



## jamato8

Do you want smd or dip? the pbf are the lead free.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you want smd or dip? the pbf are the lead free._

 

That's what i am not sure of? I don't know which ones are compatible with the zero dac.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_DIP (= "CN8")_

 

What does dip stand for? Sorry to sound thick.


----------



## fault151

right, thanks for that. I'll get the 'LT1364CN8#PBF' ordered then. Did you get the same one?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine, which I got a while ago now, are non-lead-free. That's nothing to worry about really 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Unless it works far beyond your expectations, and you can't resist the temptation to pop it out and give it a good chewing!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What does dip stand for? Sorry to sound thick._

 

Here is some additional info: Dual in-line package - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 "CN8 specifies an 8-pin dual inline package (DIP) configuration"


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here is some additional info: Dual in-line package - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 "CN8 specifies an 8-pin dual inline package (DIP) configuration"_

 

nice one, i'll have a look through that. Thank you.


----------



## JonM

Lol I have no idea about these opamps, I just cant wait to get mine and start listening.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One chip to try for me will also be the LT1122 x2 on Browndog. Really interesting one. (did I say it before? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )_

 






 You do that sometimes.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now that you have our attention, tell us why you want to try them, please?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I believe you don't even have to worry about changing opamps to get some great sound from the Zero - and the stock OPA2604 is one good opamp without a doubt.._

 

X2 !! The time to consider a different Opamp IMHO is after the initial 100 hrs break-in. At that magic point, you will be able to tell how well the headphone amp drives your headphones. If anything is "lacking", then a different Opamp would make a simple and inexpensive upgrade. Shopper is right on the money about the stock OPA2604. It is a super well rounded Opamp that spans all types of music, great dynamics, flat frequency response over the entire spectrum and has "truth" in tonal quality. Very nice indeed. By the time you hit 100 hours, Shopper, myself and several others will have experimented with many different Opamps and should be able to help you pick one if needed.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's a FET opamp (which Lawrence finds more musical) that has very good overall specifications. Designer/headfier ppl finds it to have a very musical, smooth tubey sound with "silky clean vocals" and very nice guitar strings. Sounds quite promising, me being a lover of (mostly) acoustic/vocal music. Then again, the LT1364 has the same sort of qualities._

 

Hummmmm. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Looks interesting. This is another for your list of impressions to work up!


----------



## Mushroom_2

Mine arrived yesterday (28th) after being ordered on 3rd Dec. Not bad considering Xmas holidays.
 UK residents should note it doesn't come with a UK power lead.
 Sounds good though so far.


----------



## Jeff J.

I just tried the Zero as a pre-amp, and was unfortunately very disappointed.. I only have about 50hrs burn-in, but I dont think the preamp performance can be attributed to lack of burn in alone. The sound is a bit dull and muddy, nothing compared to the stellar headphone amp performance. Anyone have any theories as to what could be done to improve it? I'm running OPA627's on a brown dog for the DAC output op-amp but everything else is still stock.

 My speaker setup is squeezebox -> Zero -> Bryston 3BSST -> B&W 803D. The same setup with my Presonous Central Station sounds so much cleaner and open, but I think the Zero can be made better for the task! The 803Ds may want a more revealing op amp, I may give the LM4562 a try once it arrives and see how that sounds..


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jeff J.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just tried the Zero as a pre-amp, and was unfortunately very disappointed.. I only have about 50hrs burn-in, but I dont think the preamp performance can be attributed to lack of burn in alone. The sound is a bit dull and muddy, nothing compared to the stellar headphone amp performance. Anyone have any theories as to what could be done to improve it? I'm running OPA627's on a brown dog for the DAC output op-amp but everything else is still stock.

 My speaker setup is squeezebox -> Zero -> Bryston 3BSST -> B&W 803D. The same setup with my Presonous Central Station sounds so much cleaner and open, but I think the Zero can be made better for the task! The 803Ds may want a more revealing op amp, I may give the LM4562 a try once it arrives and see how that sounds.._

 

Yes, Yes, absolutely use the LM4562 for pre-amp use. I found the 627s to be great for pre-amp use after more burn-in of the pre-amp section. Be prepared for a shock! The LM4562 is soooo fine for pre-amp.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jeff J.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just tried the Zero as a pre-amp, and was unfortunately very disappointed.. I only have about 50hrs burn-in, but I dont think the preamp performance can be attributed to lack of burn in alone. The sound is a bit dull and muddy, nothing compared to the stellar headphone amp performance. Anyone have any theories as to what could be done to improve it? I'm running OPA627's on a brown dog for the DAC output op-amp but everything else is still stock.

 My speaker setup is squeezebox -> Zero -> Bryston 3BSST -> B&W 803D. The same setup with my Presonous Central Station sounds so much cleaner and open, but I think the Zero can be made better for the task! The 803Ds may want a more revealing op amp, I may give the LM4562 a try once it arrives and see how that sounds.._

 

I forgot to mention that the stock Opamp OPA2604 does a decent job on the pre-amp side, so you could swap to it for the rest of the burn-in.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mushroom_2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine arrived yesterday (28th) after being ordered on 3rd Dec. Not bad considering Xmas holidays.
 UK residents should note it doesn't come with a UK power lead.
 Sounds good though so far._

 

aw crap! What does it come with? What will i need?


----------



## Penchum

My Zero #2 is at San Fransisco, that means only 3 more days!!


----------



## JonM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Zero #2 is at San Fransisco, that means only 3 more days!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

yah mine got there yesterday. I guess we ordered around the same time.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jeff J.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just tried the Zero as a pre-amp, and was unfortunately very disappointed.. I only have about 50hrs burn-in, but I dont think the preamp performance can be attributed to lack of burn in alone. The sound is a bit dull and muddy, nothing compared to the stellar headphone amp performance. Anyone have any theories as to what could be done to improve it? I'm running OPA627's on a brown dog for the DAC output op-amp but everything else is still stock.

 My speaker setup is squeezebox -> Zero -> Bryston 3BSST -> B&W 803D. The same setup with my Presonous Central Station sounds so much cleaner and open, but I think the Zero can be made better for the task! The 803Ds may want a more revealing op amp, I may give the LM4562 a try once it arrives and see how that sounds.._

 

You may have been burning in the headphone section but unless you have the preamp section hooked up to a load and have music going through it or some signal, you haven't been burning in the preamp section.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You may have been burning in the headphone section but unless you have the preamp section hooked up to a load and have music going through it or some signal, you haven't been burning in the preamp section._

 

Well, I have to eat my words!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I hadn't run the pre-amp to my Super-T since I put the OPA627's back in last week and prior to that, I had logged a bunch of hours on the pre-amp section with the LM4562. I just went and hooked it back up to give the OPA627's a listen and it sounds great! Very lush, none of the muddy stuff like before. Thanks Jamato8 for clearing my head for me!! Christmas kinda put me out of sync with what I had going.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmmm... The preamp section, whatever it is (not sure how many opamps are in the signal path - I think you're overlooking those 5532's), burns in just with the signal passing through it. A (typically) 47K load such as that of a power amp is nearly like saying no load.._

 

Well, that was the only way I knew how to describe what happened. I ran the pre-out to my Super-T amp for a solid week with the LM4562 in and really didn't think much of it. But, last week, when I put the OPA627's back in, I've been listening to the headphones since then. So, when Jamato8 mentioned using the pre-out (to burn-in), I realized that before I started listening to the LM4562, I had tried the OPA627s pre-out and it did not sound good at all. So now, here I was sitting with the OPA627s back in and I had not tried them pre-out again. I hooked up the Super-T and man, it sounds good! So that time period with the LM4562 running pre-out, burned in something! Come to think of it, I'm not sure where in the path the phones/pre-out switch actually re-directs the signal! I never thought to look.
 Can anyone tell by looking at the pics of the board?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Surely the pre-out signal passes through the headphoneamp board because that's where is the volume pot. And it's nearly sure that one of the opamps in there preamplifies or buffers the signal. So the signal, whatever opamp you put in the DAC board, also passes through a 5532 which is a smooth sounding opamp - together with the 627 it might be too much._

 

Nope. When using the pre-out, you have no volume control. It is set at one level.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah, then it's "line out" what you mean! Ok alright.


 edit- In this case I wonder why two 5532. They're each of them a dual opamp..._

 

Ok, sure thing, my bad 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. One thing I remember when the Zero was first discovered, was the headphone amp section was independent of the line-out portion and this was better for less distortion and other possible anomalies. Does that make sense?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok judging from the symmetrical layout of the board (for how little you see in the pics I have of it), each 5532 must be for one channel of the headphone amp, despite them being duals. Well...this improves channel separation 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Indeed it seems roughly the same circuit topology as that of the Rudistor NX-01 (an around 400 euro headphone amp). Except that the Rudistor has two OPA2134._

 

I just realized I have two LM4562s here. Should I give them a try in the headphone amp section???


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yepppppp!_

 

Lookin for my screwdriver right now.


----------



## jamato8

Wait, so is it a preamp and a headphone amp or not? It can't be a preamp if you can control the volume when going to an amp so I am confused.


----------



## Penchum

I can confirm that with the LM4562s in L&R sockets of the headphone board, the headphone amp is..is...IS BLOWING ME AWAY!!! All the great properties of the LM4562 are present and it is reaching way down low on the bass now. Super clean, super clear. My HD-650s were actually vibrating on those deep notes, even though I don't have the headphone amp cranked up! This means I'm hearing those 30Hz & below notes for the first time with the Zero's headphone amp! I'm sold! Gotta get me some more of these for my #2 Zero. What an amazing and inexpensive improvement!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wait, so is it a preamp and a headphone amp or not? It can't be a preamp if you can control the volume when going to an amp so I am confused._

 

When using the DAC output to an amp, you have no volume control.


----------



## jamato8

Got it.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got it._

 

You see, I thought I was making an error calling it a pre-out, but that section is called a pre-amp, so what do you suppose is correct? Pre-out, or Line-out?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It was about time you threw away those 5532's ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 How's the tonality? Is it a colorful sound?


 Btw, I'd rather get the LM49720 than the LM4562.._

 

Compared to the 5532s that were in there, I'd say this was an improvement in all aspects. What I still want to know is how much does the mainboard Opamp play in the final sound of the headphone amp?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Naturally it does play a part, it being one (necessary) opamp in the signal path. IMO you would want to take advantage of op-amp numerology 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 to best match the DAC's and the amp's opamps. More numeric variety, better sound. With 627 and 4562 you have a decent variety but the "3" that is my personal favorite number is missing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If the DY2000 is a 'boosted AD823' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 , it should go very well with the LME49720 or also the LM4562 and the LT1469._

 

In a very unique way, that makes sense. The deep deep bass of the 627s combined with the (slightly) ultra clear mids and highs of the LM4562. What is spooky or just plain luck, is the frequency response seems very flat throughout the entire spectrum! You would think combining properties of different Opamps would create a problem in this area. Very cool though!
 When I get time, I'll try the stock Opamp on the main board and see if the headphone amp upgrade still shines. If it does, this could be a very easy improvement that anyone could do.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Naturally it does play a part, it being one (necessary) opamp in the signal path. IMO you would want to take advantage of op-amp numerology 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 to best match the DAC's and the amp's opamps. More numeric variety, better sound. With 627 and 4562 you have a decent variety but the "3" that is my personal favorite number is missing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If the DY2000 is a 'boosted AD823' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 , it should go very well with the LME49720 or also the LM4562 and the LT1469._

 

Where did you see reference that the DY2000 was a boosted AD823?
 Ow, and don't forget, I have LT1364's coming. 2 regular and 2 unleaded.


----------



## spookygonk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can confirm that with the LM4562s in L&R sockets of the headphone board, the headphone amp is..is...IS BLOWING ME AWAY!!! All the great properties of the LM4562 are present and it is reaching way down low on the bass now. Super clean, super clear. My HD-650s were actually vibrating on those deep notes, even though I don't have the headphone amp cranked up! This means I'm hearing those 30Hz & below notes for the first time with the Zero's headphone amp! I'm sold! Gotta get me some more of these for my #2 Zero. What an amazing and inexpensive improvement!_

 

Any chance of photos of this tweak?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *spookygonk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any chance of photos of this tweak?_

 

Sure! It may take me a while today, but I'll try and get some taken.


----------



## d-cee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jeff J.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just tried the Zero as a pre-amp, and was unfortunately very disappointed.. I only have about 50hrs burn-in, but I dont think the preamp performance can be attributed to lack of burn in alone. The sound is a bit dull and muddy, nothing compared to the stellar headphone amp performance._

 

that's strange, I'm fairly sure that the headphone amp does the pre-amping duties

 so i find it strange that it sounds good as a headphone amp and not as a pre-amp

 maybe just a clash of sonic signatures? try some bright opamps

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I made a search and found a comment saying that the DY2000 sounds like an AD823 with more bass. It makes sense since they're both by AD and both dual. Then again d-cee said it has more resolution (probably resulting from the more stringent specifications required for military use...I would guess 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 )._

 

well apparently the DY2000 is an AD chip commissioned by Filipino military

 not many people like the AD823!! but I did, in my limited applications. but the DY2000 was universally accepted as working GREAT in the Zhaolu and I would assume the same in the Zero, but I could be wrong (let your ears be the judge)


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *d-cee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_that's strange, I'm fairly sure that the headphone amp does the pre-amping duties_

 

Hi d-cee, we did a little testing yesterday and the exact opposite seems to be true. You can change out the mainboard Opamp and it has an effect on both the pre-out and headphone amp. You can change both Opamps in the headphone amp, and it has no effect on the pre-out! This is actually kinda cool because you could use an Opamp on the mainboard that makes your pre-out sound fantastic, then try different sets of Opamps on the headphone board until you have the headphone amp right where you want it. No effects in reverse (if you get my meaning).


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's precisely what I've been 'working on' since I ordered the Zero - you have enough proof in this thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Of course the headphone amp can work as a preamp (volume controlled); but for that you would have to take the (pre)amplified signal from the headphone out - while the line out on the rear of the DAC remains a line out (around 2V output level, fixed). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

True, true. But for simplicity's sake and first time Opamp rollers, getting them to understand you work the mainboard Opamp first to optimize the pre-out signature, then work the headphone boards Opamps to optimize for headphone type and tastes and "poof" you're done. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Best of both worlds. Within a short period of time, combinations discovered can be documented here and others can pre-order Opamps that generically work best for their upcoming situation. How cool would that be?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok I might just put this DY2000 in the DAC, and then play with the LT1469 and LME49720 and LT1364 in the amp..._

 

Thats the spirit! MB = DY2000 and HB = LT1364s.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just that with that I suspect you end up with almost too much 'aliveness' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








 Also there is a remote possibility that the LT1364 would be unstable in the headphoneamp._

 

Oh, ya for sure! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There should be some kind of Title worked out for messages that contain "proven on the Zero combinations" so speculation will not get mixed up with the proven combinations. Any ideas?


----------



## Penchum

This combination I have in the Zero right now is amazing. I like to listen to old metal like Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, Montrose and the like. I started listening to some Black Sabbath "SBS" this morning. What I find a little shocking is the clarity of the bass. It is deep, much more precise and detailed, on my HD-650s! Before now, the only way for me to hear this would have been on a 15ips master RTR recording thru my Vintage SPEC equipment! Anyway you look at this, it is a major improvement for the HD-650s.


----------



## nor_spoon

I have a couple of AD797AN's and a couple of LME49720's (LM4562). Also an adapter for the 797's is on its way. 

 I have no use of the headphone amp in the Zero, as I want to use my Darkvoice 332.

 Will any of these opamps be good choices for the DAC section?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nor_spoon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a couple of AD797AN's and a couple of LME49720's (LM4562). Also an adapter for the 797's is on its way. 

 I have no use of the headphone amp in the Zero, as I want to use my Darkvoice 332.

 Will any of these opamps be good choices for the DAC section?_

 

Sure. It will come down to personal tastes though. While you wait on the adapter, try the LM4562 and see how that sounds with your DV. When the adapter arrives, then try the 797s and see how that sounds with the DV.
 If you use the default Opamp through the DV as a listening reference point, then improvements will be easy to identify. Good luck!!


----------



## nor_spoon

Really looking forward to it! I'll try to give some impressions when I get some playing time with the dac.


----------



## nor_spoon

Btw, could it be fatal to the dac if the opamps are inserted the wrong way? I guess they all have the text written the same way, so it should be an easy task?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nor_spoon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Really looking forward to it! I'll try to give some impressions when I get some playing time with the dac._

 

Excellent! I was going to try the 797s, but my shipment has gone missing and HongKong post is trying to find it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Just my luck!!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nor_spoon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Btw, could it be fatal to the dac if the opamps are inserted the wrong way? I guess they all have the text written the same way, so it should be an easy task?_

 

When looking at the chip, there is a indented circle or dot on one end, closer to one side than the other. That identifies pin 1. So, when removing the stock Opamp, see where pin 1 is and then insert the new Opamp the same way.


----------



## GnuB

After reading all 56 pages of this thread, I am seriously considering purchasing a Zero primarily for a headphone amp for my Denon D1000's. I have a few questions, but first the setup .... I am listening to a Panasonic portable CD player -> Line out to a Penguin Cafeine -> Denon D1000. Nice sound but slightly deficient in "Wow" if you know what I mean. Would the Zero with a suitable source improve the Wow factor?

 I would also need an optical source. I have a JVC XV-S500 DVD player with optical out. Would that be a suitable source for playing CD's? If the player is sending a digital signal, how much effect does it have on SQ?

 I also have a M-Audio 2496 card in a computer which also has optical out that I could use as a source; but, the overhead/noise of running a computer to play CD's seems a bit overkill. 

 I could also buy a CD player with optical out (thank you very much Head-fi) if anyone has any suggestions.....

 Shopper: Have you received your Zero yet? If so, how would you compare the sq of it compared to that of your P2?


----------



## Cecala

We need comparisons to some amps here. Since some people are getting their amps now, after burn in, this is a must.


----------



## Krendopolis

Quote:


 Originally Posted by Jeff J. View Post
 I just tried the Zero as a pre-amp, and was unfortunately very disappointed.. I only have about 50hrs burn-in, but I dont think the preamp performance can be attributed to lack of burn in alone. The sound is a bit dull and muddy, nothing compared to the stellar headphone amp performance.
 that's strange, I'm fairly sure that the headphone amp does the pre-amping duties

 so i find it strange that it sounds good as a headphone amp and not as a pre-amp

 

The headphone output IS the preamp output. If you connect to the rca output on the zero it is like connecting to your cd/dvd player. At that point you are just using the zero as a dac, not a preamplifier (not that there is anything wrong with that). If you want to use it as a preamp you need a cable to convert from the headphone jack to rca inputs on your amp (most likely). That same cable is what most people would be using to connect their computer to their stereo or to convert any headphone signal to stereo rca and costs only a few dollars. Not trying to offend anyone if that seems too basic to be posting here. I was going to buy a nicer cable just for that purpose before my zero stopped functioning 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Lawrence has contacted me, unfortunately his ideas are things I've already done: ie push the reset button on the inside, leave the unit unplugged for a day to see if the caps discharge and it resets itself. The unit seems to function fine as far as powering up, switching inputs etc but bottom line no sound.


----------



## Krendopolis

Quote:


 I would also need an optical source. I have a JVC XV-S500 DVD player with optical out. Would that be a suitable source for playing CD's? If the player is sending a digital signal, how much effect does it have on SQ? 
 

 In that case you are using the JVC as a transport. I don't know anything about that model but there are tricks you can do to improve any transport as far as dampening it internally and externally, shielding, etc so that it picks up all the info from the disc. There is probably a cheap dvd player or older cd player that everyone says is the best for using as a transport but I don't keep up with that. My plan is to use an external cdrom drive eventually.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Krendopolis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The headphone output IS the preamp output._

 

Krendopolis, I'm not trying to step on your toes here, but we need to make sure facts are accurate as possible for everyone. If you have been following the thread here, you will see that we have proven that the headphone amp section is independent of the DAC/Pre-amp section. The actual pre-amp output IS the RCA line outs on the rear of the Zero. When you connect these to an amp, it is at a set output level, not amp'ed again or messed with by volume controls. This makes it very clean and ready to be amp'ed by your favorite amp.

 The headphone amp section is a completely separate board and is made for driving headphones. It is not intended to be a pre-amp. It has an Opamp for the left channel and the right channel and its output is volume pot controlled.

 No one is sure what will happen if you try to use these functions for other than what they are intended for. The Zero has built in protection circuits that will stop output if something is not correct, so please be careful.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GnuB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a JVC XV-S500 DVD player with optical out. Would that be a suitable source for playing CD's? If the player is sending a digital signal, how much effect does it have on SQ?

 I also have a M-Audio 2496 card in a computer which also has optical out that I could use as a source; but, the overhead/noise of running a computer to play CD's seems a bit overkill._

 

I had great success using a Toshiba DVD player as a CD player, optical out. You are right, it sure beats running the computer for listening to CDs. I would try that JVC unit with optical before spending any money. You may be surprised!


----------



## Penchum

First, let me apologize for the terrible pic. I meant to take a new one from my Zero, but I am unable to right now. So, here is one that at least we can see where the Opamps are on the headphone board:






 The first Opamp is behind the volume pot. You can see the Opamp sitting in it's socket. The second, is right behind the headphone jack, and you can only see one bank of it's pins sticking into the socket. I promise to get a better pic and update this post, as soon as my back will let me.


----------



## Krendopolis

So you're saying you can use this as a pre with an amp with gain controls using the rca outputs? I didn't detect a change in the rca output level when activating the headphone amp (which is also labeled preamp) but I didn't get to use it very long. As far as being careful it's just a little too late.


----------



## Krendopolis

Well I contacted Lawrence again and this is what he said when I mentioned using the zero as a pre via the headphone output jack.

  Quote:


 Dear Sir ,

 I am sorry I misunderstood your question .
 Yes , you can use the headphone output as the pre amp by a headphone jack to RCA sockets and won't cause any trouble.

 Thank you very much !

 Best regards,
 Lawrence 
 

He's certainly a friendly guy and this makes me feel a bit better about not being responsible for this thing not working. I just didn't know how else you would use it as a preamp since the volume control doesn't affect the rear output.

 Edit: I have heard of hooking up a source directly to an amp and listening at a set level I've just never tried it and I didn't think that was what the preamp function of this unit was referring to.


----------



## malldian

Where can I get a hold of one of these?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Krendopolis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So you're saying you can use this as a pre with an amp with gain controls using the rca outputs? I didn't detect a change in the rca output level when activating the headphone amp (which is also labeled preamp) but I didn't get to use it very long. As far as being careful it's just a little too late._

 

One push of the button, blue light comes on, you are in (Phones) headphone mode. Another push of the same button, light goes out, you are in (Preamp)pre-amp mode, RCAs are active at a SET output level. The volume knob only works when in headphone mode.

 You are thinking of a pre-amp like my SPEC-1, where everything gets hooked to it and it drives the output via a volume knob. This isn't what the Zero does.

 The Zero is a DAC/Pre-amp/Headphone amp. The idea is that you would hook the RCA's to either an AUX input of another system, or directly to a seperate amplifier (like a tube headphone amp or solid state amp) with it's own level controls. I'm sure you could rig the headphone jacks output to another units input, but why would you want to do this? The cleanest signal out is the RCAs.

 If you think it is possible the protection circuits are kicking off the output, tell us exactly how you have it hooked up to what other equipment and maybe we can help somehow. We are all here to help.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *malldian* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where can I get a hold of one of these?_

 

Usually on Monday's Lawrence will post more on eBay. Right now, only one other seller has some up there, but he's got the price vs. shipping all weird.
 Search for Zero Amp and you'll see what I mean.


----------



## arteom

hey penchum, Im about 50 hours into burn in. The bass goes lower, which is good. The highs have extended, but quite honestly the highs are really bright right now (I'm getting quite a bit of sibilance). I do hope this fixes itself. 

 Also to update on my situation with the Signal to noise ratio increasing after the unit was left on for a long period of time; I emailed Lawrence and he just reccomended I open up the unit to check for loose connections and make sure its in a well venitlated place. The connections seem to be in order. Do want to say that this happened only once, I have left the unit on for a bit afterwards for a day or so (and continue to leave it on) and haven't had the same thing happen.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arteom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey penchum, Im about 50 hours into burn in. The bass goes lower, which is good. The highs have extended, but quite honestly the highs are really bright right now (I'm getting quite a bit of sibilance). I do hope this fixes itself. 

 Also to update on my situation with the Signal to noise ratio increasing after the unit was left on for a long period of time; I emailed Lawrence and he just reccomended I open up the unit to check for loose connections and make sure its in a well venitlated place. The connections seem to be in order. Do want to say that this happened only once, I have left the unit on for a bit afterwards for a day or so (and continue to leave it on) and haven't had the same thing happen._

 

Hey Arteom! Man, I though you'd crawled in a hole somewhere! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'll be the first to say that "anomalies" usually don't occur with digital sources, but I have seen a few in the last few years. Not with the Zero, but with sources. I have a Yamaha CD player that will work excellent for days, then go completely stupid for 5 minutes! Very weird!! I'm glad things are going well, and I believe you'll find the highs settle down in the hours to come. So far, the consensus is still a 100hr burn-in, so hang in there and tell us at what point the highs settle in. See Ya!!


----------



## Krendopolis

Quote:


 I'm sure you could rig the headphone jacks output to another units input, but why would you want to do this? 
 

Well someone did just say they are dissatisfied with the line-out sound relative to that from the headphone jack and it does have the gain control if your amp doesn't.

  Quote:


 If you think it is possible the protection circuits are kicking off the output, tell us exactly how you have it hooked up to what other equipment and maybe we can help somehow. 
 

Nope tried different combinations just doesn't work. Lawrence has offered to take the dac back only to rework.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Krendopolis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well someone did just say they are dissatisfied with the line-out sound relative to that from the headphone jack and it does have the gain control if your amp doesn't.


 Nope tried different combinations just doesn't work. Lawrence has offered to take the dac back only to rework._

 

Ok, I see now. Well, I think I would send it back to Lawrence and let them fix it. Better to have it fixed permanently. Good luck!


----------



## nor_spoon

Wating is pain... 
 Deciding on a thing right before christmas is just stupid! The postal service is sloooooooow


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nor_spoon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wating is pain... 
 Deciding on a thing right before christmas is just stupid! The postal service is sloooooooow 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Where is yours at now? I'm going to check on mine...


----------



## davve

what opamp do you recommend if you are gonna use it with a headphone amp?


----------



## Penchum

OMG!! I checked on my Zero, it is still showing San Fransisco. I also checked on my LD MKV and it shows: Processed, December 30, 2007, 3:33 pm, PHOENIX, AZ 85026!! That means they may deliver the MKV today!! I am so totally in shock! I need a Valium.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_More ideas? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 LT1364 in the DAC (or DY2000), and 4x OPA627 (on two adapters) in the headphone amp; 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 DY2000 in the DAC (or LT1364), and 4x LT1122 (again on two adapters) in the headphone amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The first idea sounds interesting, but expensive. The second, probably more practical. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If they ever find my lost 797's, I'll have enough to do 4x of them on two adapters in the headphone section! How wild would that be?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_what opamp do you recommend if you are gonna use it with a headphone amp?_

 

It is really hard to say right now. I have been experimenting with different combinations. I don't have enough Opamps to check too many combinations, but right now, I have the single OPA627s on the adapter, in the DAC section and I took out the stock dual Opamps (5532s) in the headphone section and put in 2 dual LM4562s.

 It is an interesting combination. When listening with headphones, I'm getting the super deep bass of the OPA627s and the full range and dynamics of the LM4562s without it being overly bright! Listening to my Super T amp from the Zero's pre-out, I'm getting all the warmth and full spectrum the OPA627s are known for. This is indeed a cool combination. I expect we will run into many more good combinations in the next few weeks. Shopper has a ton of Opamps coming, I have a few and several others have some coming. After their Zero's brake-in periods, the testing will go wide open and much will be posted about the results. I have 4 single OPA797s with two adapters coming and I also have 4 Dual LT1364s coming. Stay tuned!


----------



## spookygonk

What sort of prices are these 'extra' Opamps?


----------



## gorgnut

Hmm, cant find these on ebay anymore, sold out?


----------



## JonM

Mine still shows in sanfran. Come on USPS, get to work!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm... If the AD797's should be stable in the headphone amp it would be a lucky thing. I could use my LT1028's too, then._

 

No word yet on where my AD797s are. Lost but not forgotten.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gorgnut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm, cant find these on ebay anymore, sold out?_

 

You mean the Zero, or the Opamps?


----------



## d-cee

guys i think some are getting confused

 the zero isn't really a pre-amp because it doesn't have volume controlled RCA outputs

 it only has fixed level RCA outputs as seen in this picture:






 i was somehow under the impression that it had variable/volume controlled output based on an earlier comment, but looking at the picture now shows that it clearly doesn't have a pre-amp output


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *d-cee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_guys i think some are getting confused

 the zero isn't really a pre-amp because it doesn't have volume controlled RCA outputs

 it only has fixed level RCA outputs as seen in this picture:





 i was somehow under the impression that it had variable/volume controlled output based on an earlier comment, but looking at the picture now shows that it clearly doesn't have a pre-amp output_

 

Yes, Agreed. We've had one user who didn't understand clearly. The ones who have taken the time to read the review seem to understand ok, but we'll try to help the others along as well. Part of the confusion comes from the sellers way of identifying functions and capabilities, but we'll get past that.


----------



## d-cee

i retract my earlier statement about changing opamps affecting the pre-amp outputs, because there are none and it would make no sense for the opamps in the headphone amp to affect the line outs 

 i guess since i thought it was so similar to the Zhaolu that this was its design (zhaolu has 3 sets of RCAs at the back - one fixed line level out, one pre-amp output controlled by headphone amp and one input to use the headphone amp from a source other than the DAC)


----------



## dsmudger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *spookygonk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What sort of prices are these 'extra' Opamps?_

 

Free if you get them as samples from the manufacturers' websites 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Following the various discussions on here I've ordered:

 LME49720NA SPEC: NOPB
 LME49720HA SPEC: NOPB
 LM4562NA SPEC: NOPB
 LT1028ACN8
 LT1028ACN8#PBF
 LT1364CN8#PBF

 A browndog and a pair of 797s from eBay

 And my Zero is coming with another browndog + 'AD2000 (ceramic)' as a special xmas present from Lawrence 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Nothing's arrived yet though, Zero - currently sitting at:
 Hong Kong The item left Hong Kong for its destination on 27-Dec-2007

 Can anyone maybe tell me how long they waited between that tracking entry and 'out for delivery' or similar? (I'm based in the UK, but if I'm the only one, also interested to know what it took to the US just as a rough giude, and also if Hong Kong Post keeps updating tracking info once it's left HK?)


----------



## nor_spoon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dsmudger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nothing's arrived yet though, Zero - currently sitting at:
 Hong Kong The item left Hong Kong for its destination on 27-Dec-2007

 Can anyone maybe tell me how long they waited between that tracking entry and 'out for delivery' or similar? (I'm based in the UK, but if I'm the only one, also interested to know what it took to the US just as a rough giude, and also if Hong Kong Post keeps updating tracking info once it's left HK?)_

 

I can track the parcel if I do a search on the Norwegian Post service. You might be able to do the same in UK.

 Here is my last line on the Hongkong Post tracking:

 Hong KongThe item left Hong Kong for its destination on 22-Dec-2007

 Nothing new since...


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dsmudger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Free if you get them as samples from the manufacturers' websites 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Following the various discussions on here I've ordered:

 LME49720NA SPEC: NOPB
 LME49720HA SPEC: NOPB
 LM4562NA SPEC: NOPB
 LT1028ACN8
 LT1028ACN8#PBF
 LT1364CN8#PBF

 A browndog and a pair of 797s from eBay

 And my Zero is coming with another browndog + 'AD2000 (ceramic)' as a special xmas present from Lawrence 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Nothing's arrived yet though, Zero - currently sitting at:
 Hong Kong The item left Hong Kong for its destination on 27-Dec-2007

 Can anyone maybe tell me how long they waited between that tracking entry and 'out for delivery' or similar? (I'm based in the UK, but if I'm the only one, also interested to know what it took to the US just as a rough giude, and also if Hong Kong Post keeps updating tracking info once it's left HK?)_

 


 Im in the UK too, i ordered one a few days ago, it also says left for destination on th 28th. How can i track where it is now? The website i was given by lawrence only tracks hong kong. 

 Also do you know if the power supply will work over here ok?


----------



## IceClass

Well, my Zero was shipped on the 24th of December and nothing has shown up yet.
 I'm not totally surprised as I live on an ice-bound island and *everything* takes eons to get here (everything except those K701s I just bought from a head-fier in Montreal who get them up here within three days which was a previously unheard of record).

 I'm just hoping that the Zero turns out to be a better DAC than my Entech 205.2 and if the SS headphone amp is any good, that'll be a bonus.
 I'm intrigued to know if it'll give my Cute Beyond/Tube Head combo some competition.
 I'm still getting the hang of my new K701s but I'm feeling like they may be a bit underpowered by the Firestone Kit.


----------



## fault151

where abouts do you live? Of the UK? Im just a bit worried about the plug and power supply.


----------



## IceClass

Fault: Nah, I'm ex-Devon now in the Canadian Eastern Arctic.


----------



## fault151

oh rite, miles away! I hope the dac turns up soon. I'm so impatient. ha ha. Can't wait to have a listen!


----------



## IceClass

It's called "New Toy Fever" in some parts.


----------



## JonM

Just got mine a few minutes ago.

 Im sure Penchum is due for a pleasant surprise since ours (hist second) were shipped at the same time.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JonM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got mine a few minutes ago.

 Im sure Penchum is due for a pleasant surprise since ours (hist second) were shipped at the same time._

 

Well, the Postman just came and delivered my MKV. No Zero though. I'm good for now.


----------



## JonM

I bet, lol!


----------



## JonM

Wow. As a noob coming from on board computer audio.... I am amazed.


----------



## IceClass

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The internal headphoneamp has nothing to envy to the Cute Beyond on paper.._

 

Yeah, like I said, if the headphone amp sounds any good it'll be a bonus. I need another and hopefully better DAC than my 205.2 but, I too, would be surprised if it shamed my Firestone kit.
 Next stop is a tube headphoneamp and we'll take it from there...


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, the Postman just came and delivered my MKV. No Zero though. I'm good for now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 






 LMAO!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I no sooner started un-boxing the MKV and trying not to drool on it's niceness, I hear "Knock, Knock" downstairs. My wife goes to the door and I hear her say, "you again?" and the voice at the door says, "I forgot these two packages from China earlier!" I'm rolling on the floor LMAO because my wife brings them up to my home office and the first words out of her mouth are "Did you order ALL of China?". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So, I now have my 2nd Zero to get situated and burned-in and my lost AD797s and adapters to try out!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It was like Christmas morning all over again, except all HeadFi stuff!!


----------



## JonM

Hehe, Thats awesome penchum.


----------



## jamato8

Yeah, the 797 is being used in the Lisa III and is one of the better opamps when used correctly. It should move the Zero up a notch, I would think based on empirical evidence.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I don't think it's superior to the OPA627 that Penchum currently has in the Zero? but I'm sure it's really good. The LT1469 is a bipolar opamp with directly comparable distortion & other specifications to those of the AD797._

 

Does the LT1469 come with Haldol to fix the bipolar problems? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sorry couldn't resist!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I don't think it's superior to the OPA627 that Penchum currently has in the Zero? but I'm sure it's really good. The LT1469 is a bipolar opamp with directly comparable distortion & other specifications to those of the AD797 - plus it's dual and unity gain stable._

 

No biggie. Gotta check it out either way, so, first, I'm going to put the 797s on the mainboard and see how line-out to the super-T sounds and see if there is any impact (or change) to the headphone amp. Then, I'll put the 627s back on the mainboard and put both sets of 797s on adapters and put them on the headphone section. This should be interesting!!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WAIT...you can't put a single AD797 in the mainboard since there too you want a dual opamp.._

 

No problem, my order was for 4x 797s and 2 adapters.


----------



## nor_spoon

Hmmm... Do I need 4 of those 797's if I am only going to use the dac section? Sorry for being thick...


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, just 2 plus adapter. But better wait until Penchum ensures that they do work well, without odd psychedelic effects..._

 

Sorry man, I'm the one being thick now! The AD797s on the dog in the mainboard work great! No anomalies detected anywhere! Time to celebrate!! I'm doing some swap tests to verify which improvements belong to the AD797s on the mainboard. Should be done soon!


----------



## edguetzow

I am especially interested in what you guys determine to be the "best" opamp for the DAC portion (affecting RCA outs). I had the chance for a Gilmore Lite & DPS so I snagged it and I won't be using the headphone amp out very much on the Zero.

 I will be running off my computer (FLAC) through AV-710 optical out, to Zero and then from its line outs (RCAs) to my G-Lite and my Senn 650. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As is, I think it sounds great. However, I am not used to comparing nor critiqueing hardware so I can't really tell you if it has any "in-your-face" obvious flaws. Compared to direct out from my computer MB and from the Headroom Airhead I was using, it is fuller, cleaner, more detailed and, for me, is an overall, big, "*UH_HUH*!!!" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As for USPS, they don't seem to keep the tracking information up to date at all - maybe due to the holiday season overload. My parcel showed as arriving in San Fran on 12/21. That was the last update I ever saw. I received the parcel on Friday, 12/28. It still has not been updated to show the delivery!

 It took 7 days delivery in the U.S. as I am in deep south Texas, about 20 miles from the Mexico border so depending on where you are at it may be a day or few later.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Meaning you have already tried? How quick!_

 

Yes indeed! Here are my initial impressions: Keep in mind this is with my Zero unit which is fully burned-in, my desktop PC (X-Fi Optical out) to Zero, then line-out to Super-T amp and Zero's headphone jack to HD-650s. Note: These results are with two AD797 singles on an adapter in the mainboard. The headphone board has two LM4562 duals, one in each socket.

 First, the line-out to Super-T amp. Very much more musical. Dynamic range has increased, the frequency response has remained flat(ish). Bass is very detailed. No mud. Mids are not buttery smooth but smooth instead. No tube properties at all. Overall for line-out use, the AD797s are very nice.

 Next, the headphone amp. With the signal coming from the mainboard being sweetened up by the AD797 singles on the adapter, the LM4562 duals in the headphone amp really sing! Very detailed at all frequencies. Possibly too bright for bright headphones like K701s. This combo makes the HD-650 sound very different. Not bad at all, just different. Maybe somewhat analytical, but nothing you can put your finger on. The bass guitar riffs are so clear! Dynamics are maxed out. Nuances are present like they never were missing. Mid-high to ultra-high notes are so crystal clear, it becomes fatiguing after a while. I recommend we find a "better" candidate to match up with the mainboard (AD797s) Opamp. The LM4562s are just too much of an additive for the AD797's use. P.S. I tried the stock 5532's in the headphone amp, and they heavily filtered the sweetening effect from the AD797s, so I took them back out. I'll live with the LM4562s until my other Opamps come in.


----------



## jamato8

In the end I do not like the 4562's for their amusical quality though at first they impress in the long run they tire the ear with hyper accent on upper mids and high frequency range.


----------



## Penchum

I just wanted to re-state the importance of burning in your Zero (min 100hrs) BEFORE doing any Opamp swapping. The Zero needs to be at a constant performance level dynamically and sound quality wise, so that you can identify with this as the "norm". Then, when you start swapping out Opamps, the changes will be very easy to detect. For those who can't wait, well, be careful about recommendations to others because what you are hearing now will change as the hours go by.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In the end I do not like the 4562's for their amusical quality though at first they impress in the long run they tire the ear with hyper accent on upper mids and high frequency range._

 

I agree. In this case, it was like piggybacking the mainboard Opamp and it was just too much.


----------



## JonM

Ok I have a slight problem. Right now I have my computer connected to the dac via the coaxle input, and then the TV via the optical (directly on the tv). But it seems after awhile of playing a game, or watching TV, a delay begins to develop. It seems to get greater and greater with time.

 I havnt had this problem with my computer however, so Im stumped.


----------



## malldian

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Usually on Monday's Lawrence will post more on eBay. Right now, only one other seller has some up there, but he's got the price vs. shipping all weird.
 Search for Zero Amp and you'll see what I mean. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I am... am I missing something?


----------



## sushicide

The guy's charging $9.99 for the unit and $160 for shipping...at least thats what he was doing last week.


----------



## jamato8

He saves on ebay charges that way. They can only take a percentage of the 9.95 and not the shipping cost.


----------



## malldian

Can someone send me a link to an actual unit?


----------



## arteom

imagine if you had to return the unit; you get 9.95 back. Smart guy, lol.


----------



## dsmudger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nor_spoon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can track the parcel if I do a search on the Norwegian Post service. You might be able to do the same in UK.

 Here is my last line on the Hongkong Post tracking:

 Hong KongThe item left Hong Kong for its destination on 22-Dec-2007

 Nothing new since..._

 

Spot-on there, it worked - thanks!

http://www.parcelforce.com/
 (UK)


----------



## dsmudger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Im in the UK too, i ordered one a few days ago, it also says left for destination on th 28th. How can i track where it is now? The website i was given by lawrence only tracks hong kong. 

 Also do you know if the power supply will work over here ok?_

 

Turns out the HK Post tracking numbers just work on the parcelforce website 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (link above..)


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks. Sounds good. So the Zero is well enough designed that the AD797s don't work 'improperly' in it - at least in the DAC analog stage.


 As soon as possible, you should try and put those two LT1364s in the headphone amp (once again, hoping they don't oscillate... you're never too cautious in suggesting opamps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ). They're worth trying also in the DAC.. 

 Me, for now I guess that I'll do AD797s + LT1361s ("13679" is yummy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ). Then later I can maybe try substituting the AD797s for the LT1469 or the LT1361s for the DY2000s. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

Agreed. My rather short list has the LT1364s saved for the headphone amp board. I would start with the OPA627s on the mainboard, LT1364s on the headphone amp board. If that is as good as I think it will be, then I'll swap the OPA627s for the AD797s to verify that combo is good as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Ow, before I forget, the space on the headphone board is going to be problematic for adapters. Better be thinking dual Opamps only in those two locations.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dsmudger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Turns out the HK Post tracking numbers just work on the parcelforce website 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (link above..)_

 

Yep i had a quick look, thanks. It just says the same information as the hong kong site. I guess it's just a bit early to tell and probably hasn't got very far yet.

 Cheers.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *malldian* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can someone send me a link to an actual unit?_

 

Sorry man, looks like none are up right now. I would bet Wednesday would be the next day some get posted! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 To see pics and info from an old closed eBay add, look here: ZERO 24/192 DAC D A CONVERTOR , HEAD FI AMP , BRAND NEW - eBay (item 230202320339 end time Dec-17-07 16:35:27 PST) This is the seller most are using. Good luck, and Happy New Year!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_" 7) Hi End headphone amp,it is not by a cheap IC.In fact it is amplified by a matched pair Hi End transistors each channel.Absolutely it is capable to be a pre amp output "_

 

Is that from the add or a review?


----------



## Penchum

I made a discovery this morning. I haven't even had my coffee yet. The newer Zero units are world voltage capable now. It has the typical red slider for switching from 110 - 220v. I have no idea why I didn't look closer yesterday, but I saw it immediately this morning. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My older model is only 110 and not switchable.


----------



## malldian

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry man, looks like none are up right now. I would bet Wednesday would be the next day some get posted! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 To see pics and info from an old closed eBay add, look here: ZERO 24/192 DAC D A CONVERTOR , HEAD FI AMP , BRAND NEW - eBay (item 230202320339 end time Dec-17-07 16:35:27 PST) This is the seller most are using. Good luck, and Happy New Year!_

 

Thank you and happy new years to you!


----------



## JonM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JonM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok I have a slight problem. Right now I have my computer connected to the dac via the coaxle input, and then the TV via the optical (directly on the tv). But it seems after awhile of playing a game, or watching TV, a delay begins to develop. It seems to get greater and greater with time.

 I havnt had this problem with my computer however, so Im stumped._

 

Anyone have a clue?

 Also, to remedy this problem I must shut off both the console and dac, although it doesn't take long for it to come back. I have a feeling its my tv's -hit connections. As I have no problem like this on my computer.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you opened the newer one - does it have the green or the blue film caps near the analog stage opamp? Also, which one sounds better (when supplied with the same opamps & forgetting of the burn in for a moment) ? Thanks_

 

Yep, the first thing I did was pop the top and take a good look. It has the "green M&Ms" instead of the blue caps. I'd say they sound the same, with the exception of the newer one leaving an impression that it has more power on-tap. This may be nothing, but it is a feeling. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The completion of the burn-in will tell us for sure.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JonM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone have a clue?

 Also, to remedy this problem I must shut off both the console and dac, although it doesn't take long for it to come back. I have a feeling its my tv's -hit connections. As I have no problem like this on my computer._

 

From what you have discribed, I'd have to agree with you. Sorry, I just can't think of a cure.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How about the AD797? Are you stil preferring it to the OPA627? And which does better in tonality/timbre?_

 

It's funny you should mention that. I was just thinking about swapping back to see how my perception is. Right now, I'm doing this: X-Fi optical to Zero, Zero to new MKV with HD-650s. Sounds great! But, swapping back would give me a "reality" check.


----------



## Kake

Have just placed an order for an Zero, and are going to use the combined shipping and get some upgraded opamps. 
 My initial idea was to buy opa627, but given the calculation 1 module of 627 is $61. So If you want to change all 3pcs , it is $183.

 So.. My new "idea" is to order two modules of 627 for the head-amp section, and a AD797 for my DAC section..

 Will that work well?

 It's primary use will be as an DAC - AMP combo for my computer with a pair of AKG701.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kake* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have just placed an order for an Zero, and are going to use the combined shipping and get some upgraded opamps. 
 My initial idea was to buy opa627, but given the calculation 1 module of 627 is $61. So If you want to change all 3pcs , it is $183.

 So.. My new "idea" is to order two modules of 627 for the head-amp section, and a AD797 for my DAC section..

 Will that work well?

 It's primary use will be as an DAC - AMP combo for my computer with a pair of AKG701._

 

I wish the OPA627s on the adapter would work in the headphone amp, but there isn't enough room. The sockets are too close to other stuff. Trying the AD797s on the mainboard is good! You just need to find two dual Opamps for the headphone board. Shopper has some pretty good ideas. LT1364 is what I'm going to try in the headphone board.


----------



## malldian

Arg, where did you get it?!


----------



## jamato8

Just get the Brown Dog that allows for use of two soic opamps, one on top and one on the under side of the board. It takes up no more room than a standard single adapter. 

 Has anyone tried the AD744?

 3rd adapter on right

Audio Upgrade Adapters

 the only thing I don't like about Brown Dog's is that their traces are so thin


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *malldian* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Arg, where did you get it?!_

 

If you mean the LT1364s, order samples from: Linear Technology - Linear Home Page


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just get the Brown Dog that allows for use of two soic opamps, one on top and one on the under side of the board. It takes up no more room than a standard single adapter. 

 Has anyone tried the AD744?_

 

Share please, where can we get this adapter? I don't think anyone has tried the AD744.


----------



## jamato8

Really? I thought I had missed it some where. No one has tried it? It has been around for some time and is a opamp I have used for years.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Share please, where can we get this adapter? I don't think anyone has tried the AD744. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I posted the link to the adapter in my response.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I posted the link to the adapter in my response._

 

Thanks! Half blind today. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It is possible that Shopper has tried that Opamp but not in the Zero (I think).


----------



## JonM

uuhg. Not only can I not connect it to my TV without the delay problem, but I can connect it to my xbox without repetitive crackling sounds. 

 The only thing that it works flawlessly with is my computer. Which is where I'll use it the most, but this sure cuts back the versatility of it for me... meh


----------



## pearljam5000

well i don't have the energy to read 67 pages..so please help(=.

 1.is it on the same level as the Pico?i know it's not portable and all...but SQ wise.
 2.is it any good with K701?does the amp has enough juice?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JonM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_uuhg. Not only can I not connect it to my TV without the delay problem, but I can connect it to my xbox without repetitive crackling sounds. 

 The only thing that it works flawlessly with is my computer. Which is where I'll use it the most, but this sure cuts back the versatility of it for me... meh_

 

Thats too bad. I thought the Xbox wouldn't have such trouble. Hum. Hopefully, someone will chime in with an idea or two.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pearljam5000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well i don't have the energy to read 67 pages..so please help(=.

 1.is it on the same level as the Pico?i know it's not portable and all...but SQ wise.
 2.is it any good with K701?does the amp has enough juice?_

 

Well, I can't speak to the Pico, I've never had one. I can tell you the sound quality stock is very, very good. Even better with Opamp changes after it is burned-in. I'm driving my Senn HD-650s with it, so I'm sure the K701s would not be a problem at all. Have a good one!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just get the Brown Dog that allows for use of two soic opamps, one on top and one on the under side of the board. It takes up no more room than a standard single adapter. 

 Has anyone tried the AD744?

 3rd adapter on right

Audio Upgrade Adapters

 the only thing I don't like about Brown Dog's is that their traces are so thin_

 

Now if we could find one like that only socketed!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's funny you should mention that. I was just thinking about swapping back to see how my perception is. Right now, I'm doing this: X-Fi optical to Zero, Zero to new MKV with HD-650s. Sounds great! But, swapping back would give me a "reality" check. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well, I think I don't have enough hours on the AD797s yet. I'm going to swap back this evening and run 'em for a couple of days.


----------



## jamato8

I just noticed I have some 744's and a 746. I don't have a Zero but I will have to try the 746 in the P2. It will give me any idea of the sound.


----------



## derstar

Happy New Year Ya'll.

 My first post here from Canada =)

 Just picked up the Zero from Lawrence. And is dead after several critical listening/comparison against with my Northstar M192 DAC and YBA Audio Refinement Alpha CDP. But at least it did a very good comparison with my Northstar, which is one of the best DAC out there (especially in reproducing lifelike instrutment music - violin sounds like violin...etc). i give it 80% sound to the Northstar and closer to 90% with the YBA. Is certain a killing upgrade for any mid priced player, in my case - Sony DVP3000 and Sony DVP7700.

 Anyway, I used it as dac + preamp to drive my tube power amps for several times, and music suddenly it become silent slowly. (anyone know what is dieing?)

 Meanwhile sending off to local tech, would like to also upgrades the opamp you guys been talking about. My taste would be realistic music reproduction. I can give up bass or absolute quiet noisefloor. Burrbrown has been described with a wall between the ears and music. So should i look at AD? as my beloved Northstars is using AD opamps. It sounded best anything i heard with BurrBrown except BB has more killing dynamics and speed over the Northstar, but Northstar still sounded more real.

 Thanks in advance for any input... i really liked the Zero DAC, espcially Lawrence gave me a hint that after upgrade, it might sound even better than my class a Northstar DAC... which i wanted to find out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 P.S absolutely stunning photos Jamato (san?)


----------



## mapstec

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JonM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_uuhg. Not only can I not connect it to my TV without the delay problem, but I can connect it to my xbox without repetitive crackling sounds. 

 The only thing that it works flawlessly with is my computer. Which is where I'll use it the most, but this sure cuts back the versatility of it for me... meh_

 


 Let me get this straight: How are you connecting what to where?
 I believe that you connect your PC to the Zero with Optical and then connect the Coax to either TV or Xbox?
 That can not work, as the Zero only has two Inputs but not a digital Output.

 Or have I missed something here?


----------



## JonM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mapstec* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Let me get this straight: How are you connecting what to where?
 I believe that you connect your PC to the Zero with Optical and then connect the Coax to either TV or Xbox?
 That can not work, as the Zero only has two Inputs but not a digital Output.

 Or have I missed something here?_

 

Digital Coaxle in > PC (my PC has both optical AND coaxle)
 Digital Optical in > TV

 No outs. You are correct. 

 Good news guys. The problem with the xbox was just a setting I needed to change in the dashboard. So as I suspected the delay issue was with the TV, not the zero. I can live with it, cause I mainly wanted to use the zero with my xbox and PC. Odd, I guess the optical section of the TV didnt get much thought.


----------



## Henmyr

Would this Zero be an upgrade in any way over modded Xfi + Headfive for MS2i/DT880/DT990?

 I've read that AD8397 is a good opamp for alessandro headphones, so I might want to test that one. Which op-amp would pair best with it, and would it be best to have it in the dac or in the amp?


----------



## dsmudger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep i had a quick look, thanks. It just says the same information as the hong kong site. I guess it's just a bit early to tell and probably hasn't got very far yet.

 Cheers._

 

Yeah same here

 27-12-2007 21:21 Delivery Agent - HONG KONG - PTT Left origin country

 ...all there is since the 27th


----------



## Kake

Ordered an OPA627 module for the DAC and a pair of DY2000 (metal) for the Amp. Hopefully it will make the angels sing through my AKG's


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JonM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Digital Coaxle in > PC (my PC has both optical AND coaxle)
 Digital Optical in > TV

 No outs. You are correct. 

 Good news guys. The problem with the xbox was just a setting I needed to change in the dashboard. So as I suspected the delay issue was with the TV, not the zero. I can live with it, cause I mainly wanted to use the zero with my xbox and PC. Odd, I guess the optical section of the TV didnt get much thought._

 

JonM, Thats great! A side thought. If your TV is newer, some manufacturers have updates you can download and push to the TV. Could yours be one of them? Later..


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Linear techonolgy LT1057(dual, ceramic)
 Price: US$20,
 Comment: Without a shadow of a doubt this op amp is the star of the the centry. Easy to listen to, easy to pick out every last detail and ever so natural. There was an ethereal quality to the sound that only ever heard on high quality loudspeaker based systems. It's hard to put what this op amp does into words but listening to the sound with it on board is as close to headphone heaven. Very analytical.



 So I've determined that LT1057 (DAC) + LT1361 (amp) will be my first upgrade attempt. If I feel completely satisfied I might just stop there. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ow Beans!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dsmudger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah same here

 27-12-2007 21:21 Delivery Agent - HONG KONG - PTT Left origin country

 ...all there is since the 27th 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Both of you guys will probably get a knock at the door before you have any real status! This is usually what happens here too.


----------



## Penchum

Well, Zero #2 is about 40 hours into burn-in, and already it is sounding better. I'm sticking to the default Opamps until I have 100hrs on it. Hopefully, my LT1364's will arrive before then. My original hope was to put AD797s on adapter in the DAC and LT1364s in the headphone amp. This still may work out. Gotta order another replacement knob!! This guitar amp one is driving me nuts!!


----------



## smirnoff04

Woot. The Zero arrived today. I can't wait to get this thing home. I'll try and post my early impressions of it, though I don't know how valuable they'd be since I've got so little to compare to.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *smirnoff04* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Woot. The Zero arrived today. I can't wait to get this thing home. I'll try and post my early impressions of it, though I don't know how valuable they'd be since I've got so little to compare to._

 

Hey, thats great! I imagine (based on your handle) you might break out some drinkin stuff to have a good first listening session? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Let us know how it goes!!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LT1057 + DY2000 feels very yummy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 If for some reason I shouldn't be convinced by it, I could always keep the DY2000s in the amp and roll the LT1364 and LT1469 and AD797s and OPA211s in the DAC._

 

You know that when you have the Zero and all these Opamps sitting on the table and you are trying to figure out where to start... The burn-in issue is going to make you change your mind, right? It seems that if you didn't give the Zero the time it needs, you'll be 1/2 of the way through swapping out your stash of Opamps and the Zero will mature before your eyes and you'll have to start all over again, to be sure your first impressions still hold. ???


----------



## edguetzow

Ok, I just wanted to post something that I noticed tonight with the Zero and my new Gilmore Lite.

 First, I have the optical out to the GL with the phono/preamp button on the Zero depressed to reflect preamp setting (line out? to GL - green phone light is off). Everything is fine.

 If I plug phones into the Zero without switching the phone/preamp button (preamp mode - green phone light off) and turn up the volume to max on the Zero, I can hear the music faintly.

 If I leave the phones plugged into the GL and press the phone/preamp button on the Zero (phono mode - green light is on), I still get volume in the GL _*and can control it via the Zero*_. Volume output with the Zero seems normal.

 It seems that the Zero is controlling the GL's volume when the phones are connected to the GL and the ZERO is in phono mode (green light on), i.e. the Zero is controlling the volume level of the RCA outs which I thought were *NOT* controlled by the volume control on the Zero.

 So is that what we thought it should do? Can anyone else verify what I am experiencing? Thoughts?

 So, when I am using my GL, I will be leaving the Zero volume turned down completely to nil.


----------



## JonM

When 'Phone' is turned off, I can also hear faintly through my headphones. Once the volume knob is below 25% I cant hear anything.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edguetzow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, I just wanted to post something that I noticed tonight with the Zero and my new Gilmore Lite.

 First, I have the optical out to the GL with the phono/preamp button on the Zero depressed to reflect preamp setting (line out? to GL - green phone light is off). Everything is fine.

 If I plug phones into the Zero without switching the phone/preamp button (preamp mode - green phone light off) and turn up the volume to max on the Zero, I can hear the music faintly.

 If I leave the phones plugged into the GL and press the phone/preamp button on the Zero (phono mode - green light is on), I still get volume in the GL *and can control it via the Zero*. Volume output with the Zero seems normal.

 It seems that the Zero is controlling the GL's volume when the phones are connected to the GL and the ZERO is in phono mode (green light on), i.e. the Zero is controlling the volume level of the RCA outs which I thought were *NOT* controlled by the volume control on the Zero.

 So is that what we thought it should do? Can anyone else verify what I am experiencing? Thoughts?

 So, when I am using my GL, I will be leaving the Zero volume turned down completely to nil._

 

Ok, what you are hearing is a very small amount of cross talk at extreme (Zero's) headphone amplification. I just duplicated what you said and you have to turn things up way past safe to even begin hearing it. No worries. When I have my Zero outputting to my MKV, I always leave the Zero's headphone amp volume knob on Zero! Force of habit I guess, but still a best practice. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The RCA outs on the Zero are at a set level for your GL.
 Have a good one!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JonM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When 'Phone' is turned off, I can also hear faintly through my headphones. Once the volume knob is below 25% I cant hear anything._

 

Is that like above 25% of the knob travel? Mine is amplifying its little rear off at those levels (above 25%). When you select Phones/Preamp, there is no off. What happens is the signal goes to the RCA jacks in the back when the light is off, so you are picking up cross talk just like me, only in reverse. I just checked mine again, and I have to have the headphone amp volume knob higher than 11:00. That is a lot of amplification. Its really a "non" issue if you remember to turn the volume knob down before disconnecting, or connecting your phones. See ya!


----------



## smirnoff04

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, thats great! I imagine (based on your handle) you might break out some drinkin stuff to have a good first listening session? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Let us know how it goes!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well tonight was first moment I've had to myself since I got back from my Christmas vacation, and the first chance to hear the Zero. But rather than cracking a cold one and rushing to begin the trials, I wanted to take the opportunity to do something special. A small shot to relax, a comfy seat, and my collection Oscar Peterson playing low. I sat and enjoyed my quiet moment for around an hour, which to me is a long time.

 I eventually got around to putting the Zero through it's early paces. Clear and powerful sound, and generally pleasing is about all I can say for the time being. I'll post something more comprehensive after I log some hours with it.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *smirnoff04* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well tonight was first moment I've had to myself since I got back from my Christmas vacation, and the first chance to hear the Zero. But rather than cracking a cold one and rushing to begin the trials, I wanted to take the opportunity to do something special. A small shot to relax, a comfy seat, and my collection Oscar Peterson playing low. I sat and enjoyed my quiet moment for around an hour, which to me is a long time.

 I eventually got around to putting the Zero through it's early paces. Clear and powerful sound, and generally pleasing is about all I can say for the time being. I'll post something more comprehensive after I log some hours with it._

 

It sure is great to take time to relax and be comfy. They seem to happen less and less by default.


----------



## derstar

Okay, i'm getting the BB OPA2604 to try, it a dual, does that means plug and play without the need of the adaptor?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *derstar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Okay, i'm getting the BB OPA2604 to try, it a dual, does that means plug and play without the need of the adaptor?_

 

Yes, but, your Zero already comes with the OPA2604.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That is the default Opamp in the Zero. Can you change your order or something?


----------



## fboggio

Hi all,

 I reply to Dave great review just to give my experience with the Zero DAC, so good indeed!

 I bought my Zero DAC in September from eBay, much before any review and feedback on this unit had appeared on the Web... was really a purchase on my own risk! BTW I asked the vendor to replace from factory the default OPA2604 with more performant 2xOPA627 on Brown Dog Adaptor.
 I received the DAC after 4 weeks (I'm from Italy, unfortunately it takes time and money for imported products to pass the custom...) but my complaining stopped when I plugged the DAC and started listening to it...

 Since after few hours of burn-in, my first impressions were so good both as a DAC itself and as preamp/headphone amp. The sound open, detailed, punching but without harshness as other budget digital sources can provide. 
 At that time I was coming from a bad experience with another cheap DAC, the Beresford 7510, what a disappointment! The Zero DAC was completely another world, first of all a great design and high grade components for the money, then an open and solid sound (more width and depth) without any hint of noise or harshness. 

 After few months together with this little gem, my impressions are still so good. In fact I'm using the Zero DAC with a Marantz CD 6000 OSE LE and a DVD Yamaha, in combination with a Digital class-T amp (AudioDigit T-100) and Dynaudio Audience 60 speakers. As phone, I'm using a pair of Sessheiser HD555.

 As a DAC itself, comparing the Zero DAC with the internal DAC of the Marantz CD6000 OSE, I see they have different personalities. The Marantz is more crispy and more "in front" sound, while the Zero DAC is more relaxed and "analogic", but without losing much in details. After few months, I must admit I prefer the Zero DAC, more relax and charm, expecially with classical music and jazz! 
 With the pre-amp stage on, I see the sound is not impacted, I mean either in bad or in good. As headphone, it provides power, control and soundstage to my Sessheiser without any hint of noise, but I cannot make any significant review here (I don't have any dedicated headamp to compare with).

 Anyway, I was wandering why nobody had reviewed the Zero DAC yet; now thanks to Dave (that BTW I contacted Dave just 2 months ago to share my enthusiastic impressions on the DAC, Dave do you rimember?) this little gem has been given its deserved opportunity for fame!

 Fabrizio Boggio
 Italy


----------



## JonM

I would also like to thank Penchum aswell.

 Thanks for the review, without it, iI would've missed out on this great amp/dac!


----------



## nor_spoon

Ok, so I just pushed the button and bought an just burnt-in Ontech Monster DAC. Its a DAC from a small company in Denmark.

 I got the Ontech DAC for a very reasonable price, and probably I cant get it to sound to its fullest potential with my system, but its gonna be fun to hear differences between the Zero and this dac. 

 I will try to give some impressions when I have got them both up and running a while...


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Swapping opamps and listening to the differences takes little time...during which the burn in progress will hardly have any effect on the perceived differences between opamps. I believe. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 "Burn in" is a nice thing - simply as it is a gradual change for the better; but it doesn't have to become some sort of ritual (unless for forum purposes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ). I'd rather forget about it (as much as possible) and enjoy music right away._

 

Believe me, that is my "default" as well. However, some of the Opamps you are swapping seem to be very close to each other. I just didn't want your efforts (which are very much appreciated) to get tripped up. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Swap on!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm really goint nuts in trying to determine which one among the dual LTs, 1057, 1364, 1361, 1469 I would like best. The thing is that I'd want to go "à coup sûr" with the best. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 The LT1057 would have a full midbass and very natural mids - like the LT136x anyway. The difference might be that the LT1057 is FET whereas all the other three are bipolar. So maybe the LT1057 is a little different - one more reason to try it for first.

 Since the LT1057 has really low supply current, it might benefit by some class-A biasing._

 

From what little testing I have done, I'd say that you want the most dynamic of the group in the mainboard (improves the DAC out), then possibly the fastest with most detail (combines mainboard dynamic with detail and speed)in the headphone amp. Does that make sense?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fboggio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_now thanks to Dave (that BTW I contacted Dave just 2 months ago to share my enthusiastic impressions on the DAC, Dave do you rimember?) this little gem has been given its deserved opportunity for fame!

 Fabrizio Boggio
 Italy_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JonM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would also like to thank Penchum as well.

 Thanks for the review, without it, iI would've missed out on this great amp/dac!_

 






 Thank you very much. Yes, I do remember, isn't that funny! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Back then, I just had a good feeling about this little Zero and I'm glad it has worked out for so many people. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Soon, the Opamp "best case scenario" will be worked out and those who have the Zero will be able to purchase the Opamps and turn our little gem into a giant killer! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks to Shopper and several others who are helping with the forest of Opamps to discover!!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why not. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I remember I liked the bass of the LT1361 a lot (including dynamics). So, how about LT1361 (or for me, probably 2x LT1360 on adapter) in the DAC and OPA211 (with its -136 dB total harmonic distortion 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) or LME49720 (also great) in the amp? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Unfortunately the OPA211 is single and only SMD so requires the twin-SMD adapters._

 

I think sticking to "duals" will make other folks more at ease about swapping them out. So, maybe the LT1361 on mainboard and the LME49720 x2 in the headphone amp?

 Wasn't there an LT (LT1364?) you were hoping would work well in the headphone amp? I'm suffering from "information overload" on Opamps!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting info on AD797 vs. LT1364 here,

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/new.../index225.html_

 

Interesting read! I agree the AD797 is all that. Later today, my #2 will get it's AD797's on the mainboard. Good stuff!


----------



## ilgello

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_(me being from Italy as well) I can't but say thank you for the great feedback 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

X3 ahahaha 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Guys I don't know what to do, I have a Beresford (latest revision) and I'm waiting to buy an amp (Most likely a Darkvoice 332).

 I'm really tempted, in the meantime I'm deciding what amp should I get, to try this baby.

 While with the hd595 the Beresford wasn't too bad at all (bit blurred tho if you know what I mean), it surely lacks bass and musicality with the hungry hd600 (instruments are better separated and more clear tho).

 I'm just a noob and I don't if this is making any sense at all.

 I mean is not really a lot of money and I can afford to try it and sell whatever sounds to me worse isn't it ?

 Other option could be getting the amp and then in a few months search for a used Dac 1 USB that for sure would bring me more quality then these units...

 I'm kind of lost, what do you suggest? I'd really like to hear your opinions 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cheers


----------



## derstar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, but, your Zero already comes with the OPA2604.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That is the default Opamp in the Zero. Can you change your order or something?_

 

haha really? thats what i read in previous posts.

 But how come Lawrence listed it as an upgrade chip too? 

 Arhhh... was about to buy one yesterday on ebay for $4 dollars 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks PEN. I guess i'll try the AD797 as well...


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What I'm told is that the AD797 needs a dedicated implementation to work optimally; and anyhow would have a "treble glaze" - which might possibly be what makes it very good for Rock?

 Anyhow - not too sure it's working optimally in the Zero._

 

If I get the chance tonight, I'll put the AD797s on the adapter and put it in #2 Zero (like everyone Else's) main board and give a detailed listen. I'll report back tomorrow with how things went. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Have faith, they worked well in #1 Zero.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *derstar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_haha really? thats what i read in previous posts.

 But how come Lawrence listed it as an upgrade chip too? 

 Arhhh... was about to buy one yesterday on ebay for $4 dollars 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks PEN. I guess i'll try the AD797 as well..._

 

Ya, this is when Opamp swapping starts to get confusing. Remove the OPA2604, try others and later, talk about putting one back in. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think Lawrence has it listed because he sells other equipment and upgrades to them as well, so for some models, the OPA2604 would be an upgrade. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There are several single (dual) chip solutions that do not require an adapter coming in for several people. It might be a good idea to wait a few days and hear what they have to say. See ya!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ilgello* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_X3 ahahaha 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Guys I don't know what to do, I have a Beresford (latest revision) and I'm waiting to buy an amp (Most likely a Darkvoice 332).

 I'm really tempted, in the meantime I'm deciding what amp should I get, to try this baby.

 While with the hd595 the Beresford wasn't too bad at all (bit blurred tho if you know what I mean), it surely lacks bass and musicality with the hungry hd600 (instruments are better separated and more clear tho).

 I'm just a noob and I don't if this is making any sense at all.

 I mean is not really a lot of money and I can afford to try it and sell whatever sounds to me worse isn't it ?

 Other option could be getting the amp and then in a few months search for a used Dac 1 USB that for sure would bring me more quality then these units...

 I'm kind of lost, what do you suggest? I'd really like to hear your opinions 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cheers_

 

I guess it would depend on what source you have. Fill us in and maybe we'll have an idea or two.


----------



## wquiles

I hope my question is not too much derailment from this thread:
 - I am really impressed with this ZERO unit, but I don't have any sources that put out Coax/Optical. I have been thinking about a USB adapter(so that I can use with various PC's and a laptop) that would provide Coax and/or Optical, but I don't know which ones would be compatible with the ZERO box. Of course, keeping with the low budget of the ZERO (which I do want to buy!), I would like to spend no more than $100, maybe $150 tops for a reasonably good adapter to take advantage of the ZERO - any recommendations?

 Thanks in advance,
 Will


----------



## jamato8

A USB done right has much less jitter than coax and optical. It depends upon how it is implemented but USB is becoming the best options but there are also a number of junk USB cables out there. A good cable is requisite.


----------



## derstar

Is this the Opamp i'm looking at correctly?

 It doesn't looks like a OPA2604 BB opamp...


----------



## derstar

Also, just came back from tech...

 He say this chip in the picture should be the one that fails, thus no sound even the rest of the stuff seem to be doing good. He suggest replace this chip...

 So where can i get a replacement? i done a search on the internet, and all of them requires $300 min purchased in buying them in dozens. or hundreds.

 Damn i feel bad and like an lone arse...

 Too bad my sister is coming back, but not going to HK next week...


----------



## sushicide

Go to Linear.com or National.com to order samples of the opamps people been talking about here, I'm pretty sure Linear samples are still free while National charges you $9 for shipping & handling.

 <edit> oh wait, we're not talking about the opamp here huh....


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *derstar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is this the Opamp i'm looking at correctly?

 It doesn't looks like a OPA2604 BB opamp..._

 

You are right, it isn't! Something is a little weird here. This is the correct main board socket location, but that chip is the one used (by default) in the headphone board. Please look at the headphone board and see what 2 chips are installed in the 2 sockets there.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *derstar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, just came back from tech...

 He say this chip in the picture should be the one that fails, thus no sound even the rest of the stuff seem to be doing good. He suggest replace this chip...

 So where can i get a replacement? i done a search on the internet, and all of them requires $300 min purchased in buying them in dozens. or hundreds.

 Damn i feel bad and like an lone arse...

 Too bad my sister is coming back, but not going to HK next week..._

 

I would contact the seller and tell him the entire story. He may want to send you a replacement chip.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wquiles* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hope my question is not too much derailment from this thread:
 - I am really impressed with this ZERO unit, but I don't have any sources that put out Coax/Optical. I have been thinking about a USB adapter(so that I can use with various PC's and a laptop) that would provide Coax and/or Optical, but I don't know which ones would be compatible with the ZERO box. Of course, keeping with the low budget of the ZERO (which I do want to buy!), I would like to spend no more than $100, maybe $150 tops for a reasonably good adapter to take advantage of the ZERO - any recommendations?

 Thanks in advance,
 Will_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A USB done right has much less jitter than coax and optical. It depends upon how it is implemented but USB is becoming the best options but there are also a number of junk USB cables out there. A good cable is requisite._

 

Jamato8, I've not had much exposure to the USB/SPDIF devices. Can you recommend one around $100 or less for wquiles? Thanks man!!


----------



## jamato8

I just saw a post on Audio Asylum where I used to hang out on them. Good ones are cheap. I will see if I can find the post. I use an optical to my Monica II but it has asynchronous reclocking that gets rid of most jitter (all in an Altoid tin, yeah baby, yeah!). Monica is hot!


----------



## jamato8

Here you go. Read all of the thread on USB. I used to hang out on Audio Asylum all the time. Some of these guys are engineers and no their stuff upside down and backwards. 

Audio Asylum Thread Printer


----------



## Henmyr

Shopper, have you recieved the zero yet? I'm not sure if all your op-amp suggestions are just theory or if you have tested them in the zero.

 Thanks.


----------



## ilgello

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I guess it would depend on what source you have. Fill us in and maybe we'll have an idea or two. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

My Dac is the beresford, digital connected to an av-710 modded to prodigy.

 I had the chance yesterday to listen to a Marantz cd-67 first amplified and then alone, way too much bright/harsh for my taste, but I suddently realize How the Beresford sucks compared to it. I can't say if it's just the Amp section of the Beresford that obviously can't handle the Sen or some blame goes also for the Dac itself.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ilgello* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Dac is the beresford, digital connected to an av-710 modded to prodigy.

 I had the chance yesterday to listen to a Marantz cd-67 first amplified and then alone, way too much bright/harsh for my taste, but I suddently realize How the Beresford sucks compared to it. I can't say if it's just the Amp section of the Beresford that obviously can't handle the Sen or some blame goes also for the Dac itself._

 

Second (probably stupid) question. Can you roll Opamps in the Bresford? It just seems weird because of all the nice talk about the Bresford in other threads.


----------



## Tsukasa

Hi
 I'm looking for a dac to connect it to my computer, do you think the cruncher entech 205.2, the Beresford TC-7510 MK6 or D1 will be better than the zero?
 I don't have a headamp yet but my headphone will arrive soon, it's a MS-2.


----------



## ilgello

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Second (probably stupid) question. Can you roll Opamps in the Bresford? It just seems weird because of all the nice talk about the Bresford in other threads._

 

No AFAIK, maybe is just the ridicolous amp, In fact with the 595 it sounds way much better


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tsukasa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi
 I'm looking for a dac to connect it to my computer, do you think the cruncher entech 205.2 or the Beresford TC-7510 MK6 will be better than the zero?
 I don't have a headamp yet but my headphone will arrive soon, it's a MS-2._

 

I'm also in the same boat with MS2. 

 What I wonder is if the Zero will be good with MS2i and Beyerdynamics. From what I can read, the zero has been tested with Sennheiser and that combination works well, but what about brighter ("non-veiled") headphones? Both as a dac and amp, or worst case scenario only as dac.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tsukasa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi
 I'm looking for a dac to connect it to my computer, do you think the cruncher entech 205.2, the Beresford TC-7510 MK6 or D1 will be better than the zero?
 I don't have a headamp yet but my headphone will arrive soon, it's a MS-2._

 

No, I don't think so. The Zero beats up on my Entech 205.2, it has better specs than the Beresford and from what I have read, will outperform the D1, just like most quality desktop DACs will. I hear good things about the MS-2, but I have no experience with them. Consider this: A good clean source through the Zero sounds fantastic. Whether with 300ohm loads or 32ohm loads. If it can make the Sennheisers sing, there is good possibility that other headphones will sing as well or better than the Senns. The Zero is made to be universally excellent and diverse enough to work well with so many types of varied equipment and phones. At it's price point, IMHO it is one of the best bargains audio has seen in a very long time. Like I said in the review, everyone deserves to have a unit like the Zero.


----------



## Tsukasa

"will out preform the D1" and "IMHO" what is the meaning of that? sorry i'm french and my english is not very well. So the Zero is better than the Entech.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tsukasa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_"will out preform the D1" and "IMHO" what is the meaning of that? sorry i'm french and my english is not very well. So the Zero is better than the Entech._

 

Yes, the Zero outperforms the Entech 205.2. IMHO = In My Humble Opinion.
 Performance would be more of a statement of the sound quality. Sorry for my bad typing, I need more coffee!!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm also in the same boat with MS2. 

 What I wonder is if the Zero will be good with MS2i and Beyerdynamics. From what I can read, the zero has been tested with Sennheiser and that combination works well, but what about brighter ("non-veiled") headphones? Both as a dac and amp, or worst case scenario only as dac._

 

With the default Opamp (OPA2604) the Zero presents a very flat frequency response. Nothing is spiking or suffering dropouts. Knowing this, I'd say the Zero should work well with other headphones. I'm pretty sure some of the folks that ordered the Zero have phones that are not Senns, but I haven't heard back from them yet. Time will tell.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LT1364 + DY2000



 LT1122 (x2) + LT1361




 ...I'm desperate, I'm going to have to choose blindfolded... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Put the best overall Opamp in the mainboard, put the next best (and faster) Opamps in the headphone amp. When is your Zero due in??


----------



## nor_spoon

My Zero will arrive monday or tuesday. Also getting my Ontech Monster DAC sometime next week, so I am going to have my hands full


----------



## Tsukasa

Where can I puchase it?
ZERO 24BIT 192KHZ Stereo D/A conver +HEAD PHONE AMP - eBay (item 320202760644 end time Jan-09-08 07:18:39 PST)
 Only one solution?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tsukasa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where can I puchase it?
ZERO 24BIT 192KHZ Stereo D/A conver +HEAD PHONE AMP - eBay (item 320202760644 end time Jan-09-08 07:18:39 PST)
 Only one solution?_

 

I don't know that seller. Most here have purchased with eBay seller biglawhk. His email address is lawrencechanbig@msn.com . Send him an email and find out when he's posting more on eBay. Hope this helps!!


----------



## JonM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With the default Opamp (OPA2604) the Zero presents a very flat frequency response. Nothing is spiking or suffering dropouts. Knowing this, I'd say the Zero should work well with other headphones. I'm pretty sure some of the folks that ordered the Zero have phones that are not Senns, but I haven't heard back from them yet. Time will tell. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Personally, with the DT770, this amp makes the bass shine. Depending on the song, these things can vibrate on some bass heavy tunes. Overall everything sounds better. The detail is incredible. If your used to driving your DT770 -80 amp-less, you will not be disappointed.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looks like it could take some (more) time. The Italian Customs are dreadful 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 I don't mind a fast opamp in the headphone amp, and possibly bipolar. The LT1361 is my best candidate there. Unless I prefer the LT1469 which I've never tried. For the DAC I'm really curious to hear this DY2000 and compare it with the LT1122 on adapter. Not that I'm less curious about how the LT1364 performs in the Zero 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've also been tempted to use the OPA627. Did you try swapping with the AD797 eventually?_

 

Ya, and no matter what I did, the highs were not correct with the 797s. At first, you don't notice what is going on, but when I hooked the DAC output up to my MKV, the problems became very noticeable, and I had to take them out. The OPA627s sound "richer" and at least accurate, but they need to be paired with something better than the 5532s in the headphone amp.

 My LT order came and who ever filled it, didn't read the label correctly and gave me the wrong pin type. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So, I put in another order. Waiting again! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I decided to put all the stock Opamps back in so both Zero's are stock. There is something to be said for that combination of OPA2604 and 5532s. The MKV really sounds excellent with the Zero in this configuration.


----------



## edguetzow

Penchum,

 I am sure that I can speak for many other greatful headfiers and join in with previous posters in giving you a very hearty [size=medium]*THUMBS UP*[/size] and *[size=medium]THANK YOU VERY MUCH[/size]* for your taking one of the 1st steps in exploring the ZERO!!

 Over 759 posts and over 21,000 views to date indicates a thread of interest to many of us headfiers that will probably continue for a very long run!

 Ed


----------



## fraseyboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edguetzow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Penchum,

 I am sure that I can speak for many other greatful headfiers and join in with previous posters in giving you a very hearty [size=medium]*THUMBS UP*[/size] and *[size=medium]THANK YOU VERY MUCH[/size]* for your taking one of the 1st steps in exploring the ZERO!!

 Over 759 posts and over 21,000 views to date indicates a thread of interest to many of us headfiers that will probably continue for a very long run!

 Ed_

 

Amen! Great job!


----------



## arteom

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edguetzow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Penchum,

 I am sure that I can speak for many other greatful headfiers and join in with previous posters in giving you a very hearty [size=medium]*THUMBS UP*[/size] and *[size=medium]THANK YOU VERY MUCH[/size]* for your taking one of the 1st steps in exploring the ZERO!!

 Over 759 posts and over 21,000 views to date indicates a thread of interest to many of us headfiers that will probably continue for a very long run!

 Ed_

 

X2, great work!

 on another note. I am using the zero with the Denon D2000's (25ohms) and it is a nice combination. About 30 hours back in burn in [I'm at about 90-100 hours now) it was really harsh in the highs, I was getting ridiculous amounts of sibilance. But happy to report the highs have settled down nicely (I am hoping that they still settle just a tiny amount, but that might be the headphones). The bass has improved (gotten a bit tighter still and perhaps a tad bit warmer). I am really happy with the purchase!


----------



## jamato8

You mean there is a process sometimes termed burn-in going on?


----------



## arteom

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You mean there is a process sometimes termed burn-in going on?_

 

Yes, I've seen it with my own ears!


----------



## jamato8

You mean your Ears are burning-in, surely you don't think the amp is changing do you? :^)


----------



## arteom

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You mean your Ears are burning-in, surely you don't think the amp is changing do you? :^)_

 

Yes, constantly. But I do have this suspicion that the amp is changing as well. I can prove this with only a clock.


----------



## powertoold

I will the Zero work with sensitive IEMs? Are the only amps that are good for IEMs portable ones?


----------



## janderclander14

"...Linear techonolgy LT1028(single, ceramic) on Browndog adaptor
 Price: US$15 each (Total US$30 for 2 singles) Browndog adaptor $5 Total: $35
 Comment: It provided very similar results to the LT-1057 but each component of the sound was treated to an additional air of realism and effortless delivery that was immediately evident.

 Linear techonolgy LT1028(single, metal) on Browndog adaptor
 Price: US$25 each (Total US$50 for 2 singles) Browndog adaptor $5 Total: $52
 Comment: It provided very similar results to the LT-1028 but the sound is ten times better LT-1028 with their punch , detail , range of frequency ….. especially the naturality.


 Analog device DY2000 (dual, ceramic)
 Price: US$20
 Comment : These chips makes the sound more valve like than the tube sound ever did if that can possibly make any sense! Melodious, slightly laid back and warm yet it brings out every last bit of detail from a recording. Overall a very nice sound. A kind of hybrid valve and solid state mix which gives the best of both worlds. Nice smooth valve like mids and highs with lovely solid state bass oomph . This is the Op amp for those who prefer a valve like sound but would also like a solid state bottom end delivery. With this Op amp you can have your cake and eat it. Smooth as silk.

 Analog device DY2000 (dual, metal)
 Price: US$35.
 Comment : It provided very similar results to the DY2000 ceramic but the sound is ten times better with their punch , detail , range of frequency ….. especially the naturality...."



 It is interesting to see that the metal version of several opamps provides better performance than their plastic/ceramic versions. Another user has also reported that the metal/TO-99 version of the popular lm4562 sound waaaay better than the plastic/DIP version typically used.

 What do you think? Anyone has compared metal/plastic versions of opamps?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edguetzow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Penchum,

 I am sure that I can speak for many other greatful headfiers and join in with previous posters in giving you a very hearty [size=medium]*THUMBS UP*[/size] and *[size=medium]THANK YOU VERY MUCH[/size]* for your taking one of the 1st steps in exploring the ZERO!!

 Over 759 posts and over 21,000 views to date indicates a thread of interest to many of us headfiers that will probably continue for a very long run!

 Ed_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fraseyboy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Amen! Great job!_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arteom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_X2, great work!

 on another note. I am using the zero with the Denon D2000's (25ohms) and it is a nice combination. About 30 hours back in burn in [I'm at about 90-100 hours now) it was really harsh in the highs, I was getting ridiculous amounts of sibilance. But happy to report the highs have settled down nicely (I am hoping that they still settle just a tiny amount, but that might be the headphones). The bass has improved (gotten a bit tighter still and perhaps a tad bit warmer). I am really happy with the purchase!_

 

Thanks guys! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Every now and then I like to put my money where my mouth is. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just wish I had more. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks also to everyone working on the Zero's capabilities. The optimum Opamps combination is coming!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *powertoold* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will the Zero work with sensitive IEMs? Are the only amps that are good for IEMs portable ones?_

 

I haven't heard of anyone using IEMs with the Zero. Portable is as portable does.


----------



## Penchum

Just a quick story about static electricity. It has been pretty cold here in Arizona at night, so in the evening, I usually use one of those small blankets to keep my feet warm, or over the shoulders. While listening to my HD-650s, I reached up and took them off, and grabbed the cable to set them down on my work table. ZAP! The static build up from the blanket was enough to make it through the insulation of the headphone cable! The music immediately stopped. I had the usual two to three second "panic" attack, then realized my source was still running. The Zero had stopped.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I powered it down, then right back up again and the Zero had reset itself and was running fine.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have done this now accidentally, at least 5 times. The protection circuit in the Zero has saved the day!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This made me think of first time Opamp rollers. Are they grounding themselves before grabbing that chip, or opening their Zero's? Make sure you ground yourself before handling sensitive electronics!!


----------



## janderclander14

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well the TO99 (the little metal can) package seems to do good to all opamps, but obviously it has a higher cost.

 Also it'd be fine if the layout of the circuit was originally thought for TO99 opamps; less so if (as happens invariably) it's been thought for DIP opamps and so you have to have the TO99 soldered to a DIP socket, which will then have to plugged on another socket - the one on the board. Too many sockets and joints for my taste; which can compromise the stability of some opamps (the faster ones especially).

 In general, I like to see things done simply & neatly so I'd just go with a DIP opamp if using a DIP socket. In fact I have ordered my DY2000's in standard "ceramic" form._

 

Thanks for sharing your experiences. Do you think is it possible to fit the TO99 package legs of the opamps in the DIP socket without soldering or they are not wide enough to maintain it stable?


----------



## derstar

no luck on the head board too... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 but i'm more wanted to get the amp fixed so i have something to hear... but local techs can't help at all...


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *derstar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_no luck on the head board too... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but i'm more wanted to get the amp fixed so i have something to hear... but local techs can't help at all... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

In the pic called "head", are both the socketed Opamps the same number, 5532?


----------



## legcramp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *smirnoff04* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well tonight was first moment I've had to myself since I got back from my Christmas vacation, and the first chance to hear the Zero. But rather than cracking a cold one and rushing to begin the trials, I wanted to take the opportunity to do something special. A small shot to relax, a comfy seat, and my collection Oscar Peterson playing low. I sat and enjoyed my quiet moment for around an hour, which to me is a long time.

 I eventually got around to putting the Zero through it's early paces. Clear and powerful sound, and generally pleasing is about all I can say for the time being. I'll post something more comprehensive after I log some hours with it._

 

More impressions please!


----------



## derstar

Pen, it reads:

 5532D
 JRC
 6098B

 Sorry i'm taking your personal time...


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *derstar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pen, it reads:

 5532D
 JRC
 6098B

 Sorry i'm taking your personal time..._

 

Its no problem. Thats what we are here for. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Can't seem to tell anything by the pics. I know for sure you don't have the right mainboard Opamp (OPA2604) in there, but it should still work. Have you contacted the seller again?


----------



## derstar

Finally contacted Law.

 WOW, he said, give me your address, i'll send you the chip!

 Without even asking.

 And he say if it still doesn't work.

 Send me the main board, i'll take care it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 NOW, this is customer service, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So now, if chip doesn't work afte replace, i'll just send him the thing and also let him upgrade for me.

 THANKS


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *derstar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Finally contacted Law.

 WOW, he said, give me your address, i'll send you the chip!

 Without even asking.

 And he say if it still doesn't work.

 Send me the main board, i'll take care it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 NOW, this is customer service, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So now, if chip doesn't work afte replace, i'll just send him the thing and also let him upgrade for me.

 THANKS_

 

Wonderful! I just knew Lawrence was a stand up guy (and audiophile). His responses to me have always been positive.


----------



## legcramp

So what's the average wait for this to come to your doorstep in the USA? From the date of ordering to delivery? I know you have two Penchum from 2 different orders.

 I read through this whole thread, well most of it, skimming through some. This for the $$$$ would eat up a $165 Headsix, bithead, emu 0404 usb, entech 205.2, little dot mk1, portaphile v2 maxxed Maybe the Hornet M??? etc etc 

 Basically all the Under $200 amps this tops it, and this thing drives 95% of the mainstream cans from AKG Sennheiser Beyer Grado ETC ETC ETC very nicely.


 The only thing that is holding me back is the wait time and possible delays ( Unless someone sells me one from the states 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) I know from all this reading this will be a long-term investment since it's such a gem for the money. ...... GRRRR should I snatch this for my Dt770/80 pro's. GRRRR This website is freaking ridiculous..... first hey I want a little more punch in my movies, let's grab a pair of DT770, hey it needs an amp, a cmoy or pa2v2 will do, hey this opamp seems like a gem and longterm investment, it only cost 3x more than the pa2v2...... sigh...... I am broke.


----------



## Henmyr

How is the jitter with the zero? Does it have anything to reduce the jitter? (I'm not an expert on jitter btw. Have never used a stand alone dac and thus have never experienced it)


----------



## Almoxil

Newbie here. After reading this impressively comprehensive thread on the Zero, I couldn't resist and pushed the button for one with the default OPA2604 plus a pair of single OPA627's on a Browndog adapter.

 First, *thanks a lot* to Penchum, Shopper and all other guys and gals (anyone?) who posted their reviews and impressions on this desktop amp. I'm sure I did a great purchase.

 Now, I have a small question: does the bundled optical cable have a 1/8" (3.5 mm) plug at one end and an optical plug at the other end? Before buying a decent desk CD player I'll be plugging a iRiver SlimX 550 (don't laugh! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) into it, and a pair of ATH-AD2000's or Alessandro MS-1's (soon to be MS-2's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) into the headphone jack.

 Can someone post a pic of the bundled cable? If not, is it similar to the cable below?

 Thanks again!


----------



## wquiles

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here you go. Read all of the thread on USB. I used to hang out on Audio Asylum all the time. Some of these guys are engineers and no their stuff upside down and backwards. 

Audio Asylum Thread Printer_

 

Thanks for the link. I started reading over there already - lots of good information for sure!

 Will


----------



## ilgello

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Almoxil* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Newbie here. After reading this impressively comprehensive thread on the Zero, I couldn't resist and pushed the button for one with the default OPA2604 plus a pair of single OPA627's on a Browndog adapter.

 First, *thanks a lot* to Penchum, Shopper and all other guys and gals (anyone?) who posted their reviews and impressions on this desktop amp. I'm sure I did a great purchase.

 Now, I have a small question: does the bundled optical cable have a 1/8" (3.5 mm) plug at one end and an optical plug at the other end? Before buying a decent desk CD player I'll be plugging a iRiver SlimX 550 (don't laugh! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) into it, and a pair of ATH-AD2000's or Alessandro MS-1's (soon to be MS-2's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) into the headphone jack.

 Can someone post a pic of the bundled cable? If not, is it similar to the cable below?

 Thanks again!




_

 

I'd say the cable would be optycal connection on both side....

 BTW if you intend to buy a decent cd player maybe you just need an amp and not a dac+amp ?


----------



## Almoxil

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ilgello* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd say the cable would be optycal connection on both side....

 BTW if you intend to buy a decent cd player maybe you just need an amp and not a dac+amp ?_

 

Thanks for the fast response, ilgello.

 Yeah, an amp would be the answer, but I'd like to keep the option of bypassing the internal DAC of the CD player and use the DAC on the Zero. I could also get a cheaper CD player to use as transport, this way...


----------



## ilgello

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In your case I'd consider the Shanling PH100 as a amp-only alternative._

 

I'm following that thread too, really cheap indeed


----------



## ilgello

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Depends on the point of view. I personally don't consider $220 cheap for a headphone amp - just right. Whereas I'd consider $220 cheap for a speaker amp._

 

Well I really think it depends what do you expect from an headphone system, and what your other equipments are (cans, dac etc).

 Sorry for the OT.


----------



## Penchum

Flexibility is key in my book. That is what caught my eye with the Zero in the first place. I already had the Super T-amp and my AR bookshelves, so the idea of digital source to Zero to Super T to ARs was nice, and the ability to just by-pass the amp and listen to good clean headphones was also nice. The more I thought about it, the more attractive it became and the price was outstanding, so it didn't take long to make the purchase. Mini system complete!

 Then, the side benefits became clearer. Like, hook the Zero to anyone of my Tube headphone amps, or now, hook it to my MKV SS headphone amp. The idea of using the Zero as a digital to analog bridge, into my Vintage equipment was tested and fantastic, so #2 was purchased. 

 No matter how you look at this little Zero unit, it gives you options for down the road. I like that. The fact that it is inexpensive, is icing on the cake!


----------



## legcramp

Good idea to get one of these instead of just a headphone amp like the Headsix to drive my DT770/80 pro's? I mean there is a $15 between this and the Headsix.

 I don't need portable and a nice silver machine sitting on the desk would look nice


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aZn_plyR* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good idea to get one of these instead of just a headphone amp like the Headsix to drive my DT770/80 pro's? I mean there is a $15 between this and the Headsix.

 I don't need portable and a nice silver machine sitting on the desk would look nice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I forgot what your source was, but as long as it is digital, I would agree with what you said.


----------



## legcramp

Yeah it's digital from an xtrememusic.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aZn_plyR* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah it's digital from an xtrememusic._

 

Same here!! Did you purchase the I/O drive from Creative yet?


----------



## legcramp

Well I didn't need the use of a front panel, since it screws up the look on my case ( I like it clean 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) 

 Do I even need that with the Zero? Since I am planning to connect the x-fi to the zero via coaxial


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aZn_plyR* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I didn't need the use of a front panel, since it screws up the look on my case ( I like it clean 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) 

 Do I even need that with the Zero? Since I am planning to connect the x-fi to the zero via coaxial_

 

Ow, no you are correct. It isn't needed.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It just gives you more options on inputs & outputs. I like it because of the output features and inputs too. I use it to input my analog audio systems and create WAV lossless files. It has a headphone amp section, but I don't use it unless I'm gaming later at night.
 It is worth taking a look at, to see if the additional functionality will help you later. Sound Blaster X-Fi I/O Drive Upgrade Kit - Add a dedicated headphone jack, additional audio I/O and a wireless remote to your Sound Blaster X-Fi equip

 It sure is cheaper now than when I bought mine!


----------



## JonM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Almoxil* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Now, I have a small question: does the bundled optical cable have a 1/8" (3.5 mm) plug at one end and an optical plug at the other end? Before buying a decent desk CD player I'll be plugging a iRiver SlimX 550 (don't laugh! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) into it, and a pair of ATH-AD2000's or Alessandro MS-1's (soon to be MS-2's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) into the headphone jack.

 Can someone post a pic of the bundled cable? If not, is it similar to the cable below?

 Thanks again!




_

 

It has a standard optical toslink male connector on both sides. Its only 3 feet however, so you'd need to place the zero very close to the source.


----------



## Almoxil

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JonM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It has a standard optical toslink male connector on both sides. Its only 3 feet however, so you'd need to place the zero very close to the source._

 

Thanks for the info, JonM. I bought a 1/8" to toslink cable so I can plug the SlimX to the Zero when it arrives.

 Do you know of a good desk CD player with optical out to pair with the Zero? Since I will be using the optical out on the CD player, the audio data will bypass the CD player built-in DAC/amp and will be treated exclusively by the Zero, right?

 Sorry for the noob question.


----------



## jamato8

Yes, you will be using your CD player as a transport bypassing the internal dac and assorted circuit.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Almoxil* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the info, JonM. I bought a 1/8" to toslink cable so I can plug the SlimX to the Zero when it arrives.

 Do you know of a good desk CD player with optical out to pair with the Zero? Since I will be using the optical out on the CD player, the audio data will bypass the CD player built-in DAC/amp and will be treated exclusively by the Zero, right?

 Sorry for the noob question. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Originally, I had trouble finding a portable CD player to use. I only wanted a portable to take up less space. As an interim measure, I had a Toshiba DVD player (single disc) that worked wonderful as a CD transport with optical out. These are cheap to find too. I still use it on occasion too. Just an idea to help you get by.


----------



## dsmudger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With the default Opamp (OPA2604) the Zero presents a very flat frequency response. Nothing is spiking or suffering dropouts. Knowing this, I'd say the Zero should work well with other headphones. I'm pretty sure some of the folks that ordered the Zero have phones that are not Senns, but I haven't heard back from them yet. Time will tell. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yup - still waiting for mine, but soon as it comes in I'll post a ('first impressions'?) review with it playing into some Grado RS1s - should be a good test case for brighter/'less veiled' headphones (compared to Senn HD600 and similar)... got a pair of HD580s and Shure E5c knocking about the place to compare with back-to-back as well...


----------



## dsmudger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *powertoold* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will the Zero work with sensitive IEMs? Are the only amps that are good for IEMs portable ones?_

 

I'll let you know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (e5C) (I'll see if I can get my Shure e500 repaired in time as well maybe - damn fine IEMs those ones, very sad I broke mine/was stupid enough to step on one of them a while back/done nothing about it yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## Almoxil

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Originally, I had trouble finding a portable CD player to use. I only wanted a portable to take up less space. As an interim measure, I had a Toshiba DVD player (single disc) that worked wonderful as a CD transport with optical out. These are cheap to find too. I still use it on occasion too. Just an idea to help you get by. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'll look at my home DVD players. One of them might have a digital output. But I'll also look at your suggestion. Thanks a lot, Penchum. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now I'm antsy about my Zero! I'm waiting the tracking code from Lawrence.


----------



## Almoxil

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, you will be using your CD player as a transport bypassing the internal dac and assorted circuit._

 

Thanks for the info, jamato8.


----------



## nor_spoon

Zero finally arrived today. Never gonna order something before christmas again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Looking forward to hook it up when I get back home from work.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nor_spoon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Zero finally arrived today. Never gonna order something before christmas again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Looking forward to hook it up when I get back home from work._

 

Fantastic! Glad it arrived ok. The "before Christmas" thing is probably correct.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We are all itching to hear how things are going!!


----------



## nor_spoon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Fantastic! Glad it arrived ok. The "before Christmas" thing is probably correct.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We are all itching to hear how things are going!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yet to find out if its ok, but at least it has arrived 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I will try to give some impressions, comparing to my current setup (analog out from Echo Mia) later, and also with the other dac arriving soon.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Fantastic! Glad it arrived ok. The "before Christmas" thing is probably correct.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We are all itching to hear how things are going!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I had a dog that used to itch a lot. It would drag it butt along the ground and . . . I guess you don't mean that kind of itching ?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nor_spoon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yet to find out if its ok, but at least it has arrived 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I will try to give some impressions, comparing to my current setup (analog out from Echo Mia) later, and also with the other dac arriving soon._

 

Ow, more waiting! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Don't you just love it!!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had a dog that used to itch a lot. It would drag it butt along the ground and . . . I guess you don't mean that kind of itching ?_

 

That is the fine art of "Three point landings" and only dogs can do it correctly with much practice. You can tell by the skid marks left on the runway.


----------



## jamato8

Yes, does wonders for the carpet. Must feel good though. Kinda cute till you realize what is going on. . . . . those little legs hiked up in the air and the front ones just paddling away. Man how do they do that. And then male dogs, they can lick . . . sorry . .. back to amps.


----------



## JonM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Fantastic! Glad it arrived ok. The "before Christmas" thing is probably correct.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We are all itching to hear how things are going!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Dang I ordered mine a day before xmas. Must of been one of the lucky ones to get that last shipment.


----------



## nor_spoon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ow, more waiting! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Don't you just love it!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Waiting is half the fun!


----------



## dsmudger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JonM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dang I ordered mine a day before xmas. Must of been one of the lucky ones to get that last shipment._

 

Gargh - ordered Dec. 8th, still waiting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Perhaps encouragingly, yesterday a new line showed up on the tracking - but it's back-dated to the 28th:  Quote:


 28-12-2007 17:44 Heathrow Airport Arrived at destination country 
 

(who knows/I give up... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## JonM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dsmudger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Gargh - ordered Dec. 8th, still waiting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Perhaps encouragingly, yesterday a new line showed up on the tracking - but it's back-dated to the 28th: 

 (who knows/I give up... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)_

 

Ah you ordered from the other seller, right? I do not know if that is the problem, but atleast you know its in the mail. Whats with the delay, have you contacted the seller for an explanation?

 In any case, I'm sure itll be worth the wait for you.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dsmudger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Gargh - ordered Dec. 8th, still waiting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Perhaps encouragingly, yesterday a new line showed up on the tracking - but it's back-dated to the 28th: 

 (who knows/I give up... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)_

 

im still waiting to. I live in UK too so maybe our will arrive at same time? Are you using Parcel force to track your item or the Hong Kong site Lawrence sent you?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, has someone tried their LT1364s in their Zeros yet?_

 

Still waiting on the LT shipment. Hopefully soon!!!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Be sure to try it in the DAC board too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I think that is going to be one of my first things. Any word on your Zero yet?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Be sure to try it in the DAC board too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Here is what I have coming:

 LT1469 (Qty: 2)
 LT1364 (Qty: 2)
 LT1361 (Qty: 2)
 LT1057 (Qty: 2)

 This will give me a few options. I had hoped to eventually put the OPA627s back on the DAC, and use one of these four as L&R in the headphone amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Any guess as to which ones will work best in the headphone amp?


----------



## Seba

Just ordered mine with DY2000 metal and OPA627's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And also I have ordered Little-Dot MKIV SE.

 Penchum, we got the same gear soon except I have Grado RS-2's


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So you're assuming that the OPA627s will be better. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Nah, try the LT1364 or LT1361 first 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Then put the OPA627 back in and open your eyes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Never tried the LT1469 but there's a chance that it'll be at least as good as the others for the DAC.


 What I'll probably do myself is LT1469 in the DAC and LT1361 in the amp. Not that I don't have a few OPA627BP lying around 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well, better? I was thinking the rich sound of the OPA627s on the DAC for my Super=T, but something better for the headphone amp. Who knows! I might get lucky. But I will try the others in the DAC first.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seba* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just ordered mine with DY2000 metal and OPA627's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And also I have ordered Little-Dot MKIV SE.

 Penchum, we got the same gear soon except I have Grado RS-2's_

 

Cool! You are going to love the MKIVse. Even all by itself with a DAP, it will blow your mind!


----------



## davve

I orded mine a while ago, next stock is next week


 Dear Sir ,

 Next stock is 50pcs which around 30pcs are reserved.

 Thank you very much !

 Best regards,
 Lawrence


----------



## Seba

Good to hear. It would be nice to have the amp and the DAC at the same time, but maybe I'll test my LD first from super-bright SB X-Fi (LM4562).

 Can't wait to hear the DAC with optional op-amps. Maybe I'll get some nice op-amps for the headphone circuitry also.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seba* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good to hear. It would be nice to have the amp and the DAC at the same time, but maybe I'll test my LD first from super-bright SB X-Fi (LM4562).

 Can't wait to hear the DAC with optional op-amps. Maybe I'll get some nice op-amps for the headphone circuitry also._

 

My X-Fi music isn't modded (yet), but it sounds great on my MKIVse. The default tubes on the MKIVse will mellow out the extra brightness of the LM4562. You are in for a treat!!


----------



## dsmudger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_im still waiting to. I live in UK too so maybe our will arrive at same time? Are you using Parcel force to track your item or the Hong Kong site Lawrence sent you?_

 

Parcelforce website - actually I just gave them a call, and they say they've been having some delays on mail from HK. As far as they know it's as the tracking says, simply been just been stuck sitting at Heathrow for a while.. But the operator I spoke to said she'd put some kind of priority flag on it for me and hopefully that would help get it out quicker - not sure if it'll make a difference especially if our packages are piled up in a heap amongst a load of other delayed ones (this Christmas I got quite a shocking insight into to how UPS run their show when they let me into the depot to look for a package myself when they couldn't find it/gave up looking 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 this is Parcelforce though - I think they're a lot better/usually pretty efficient from past experience), but I'd say it's well worth you giving that a shot too, you never know it might make a difference 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (sorry I forget the exact term she used.. "put a priority on it" or something similar..? if they don't offer it of their own accord just maybe ask nicely if there's anything they can do to help speed it up? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## dsmudger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JonM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah you ordered from the other seller, right? I do not know if that is the problem, but atleast you know its in the mail. Whats with the delay, have you contacted the seller for an explanation?

 In any case, I'm sure itll be worth the wait for you._

 

Nah, it's Larence - he just forgot to put mine in with the first 50, I'm guessing maybe because I ordered direct to his email address rather than through eBay and I reckon he's probably using that or some eBay powerseller type software to manage his orders..?

 It's all good though as he sorted me out with a free-christmas-present op-amp upgrade to the DY2000 ceramic and the browdog to go with them by way of apology/good customer service (how cool is that? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 Works out rather nicely as by the time I found out about it I'd already got another browndog (still no sign of it from HK/prob. same delay as the Zeros a couple of us are waiting for..) and a few different replacement op-amps on the way - nice surprise finding I'd now have two-for-the-price-of-one single-dual adapters for the main and headphone amp boards..


----------



## nor_spoon

How do you insert the AD797s on the adapter? 

 When facing the dac from the side where the mainboard opamp text is correct...:

 both in the same direction (as the one on the mainboard), so you can read the text correct on both when placed on the adapter?

 Opposite to eachother, so the closest has the text correct, while the other has the text upside down?

 Or another way?


----------



## fault151

Ok i'll give them a try now. Do you have a particular number you used? I'll have a quick look on their website.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dsmudger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Parcelforce website - actually I just gave them a call, and they say they've been having some delays on mail from HK. As far as they know it's as the tracking says, simply been just been stuck sitting at Heathrow for a while.. But the operator I spoke to said she'd put some kind of priority flag on it for me and hopefully that would help get it out quicker - not sure if it'll make a difference especially if our packages are piled up in a heap amongst a load of other delayed ones (this Christmas I got quite a shocking insight into to how UPS run their show when they let me into the depot to look for a package myself when they couldn't find it/gave up looking 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 this is Parcelforce though - I think they're a lot better/usually pretty efficient from past experience), but I'd say it's well worth you giving that a shot too, you never know it might make a difference 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (sorry I forget the exact term she used.. "put a priority on it" or something similar..? if they don't offer it of their own accord just maybe ask nicely if there's anything they can do to help speed it up? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)_


----------



## nor_spoon

Nevermind my last post. Couldnt wait, so I put them on both facing the way the original opamp sits. Worked like a charm. No fried Zero yet =)


----------



## dsmudger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok i'll give them a try now. Do you have a particular number you used? I'll have a quick look on their website._

 

Oh sure/sorry should have said.. got the number via saynoto0870.com (good one to remember/bookmark if you don't know it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) - the one that did the trick for me was 0191 512 7003

 It's the direct-dial/non-premium-rate equivalent of 08708 501 150 listed on the site among others (head office/various specific depots/general numbers etc) as "Parcelforce (worldwide)" and "This is customer services for missing parcels, collections, etc." - seemed like the best one to go for and apparently did the trick (for what it's worth?)


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dsmudger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh sure/sorry should have said.. got the number via saynoto0870.com (good one to remember/bookmark if you don't know it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) - the one that did the trick for me was 0191 512 7003

 It's the direct-dial/non-premium-rate equivalent of 08708 501 150 listed on the site among others (head office/various specific depots/general numbers etc) as "Parcelforce (worldwide)" and "This is customer services for missing parcels, collections, etc." - seemed like the best one to go for and apparently did the trick (for what it's worth?) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks mate, i'll give them a try in the morning.

 cheers


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ouch. So I misinterpreted. Sorry 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Don't get me wrong on the OPA627, it's probably my favorite of the "mainstream" opamps._

 

No problem, I think the "big" trouble with the Opamps is addressing the DAC first, then the headphone amp. But, working this direction with them will prove out what works best. I'm pretty sure you are correct about the LT's in the headphone amp too. I keep looking at more Opamps and telling myself, "not just yet" and then I almost laugh!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep. And indeed the OPA627 should be a great one for the DAC. Hard to do better. We'll see. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Still curious about the DY2000 too. Will my two samples ever arrive..._

 

Could you shoot me a link to the DY2000? I'm beyond curious now, so I probably should take a look.


----------



## wquiles

You know, this ZERO box is indeed a great value, but if it had a built-in USB port, it would be perfect and simpler to use/connect 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Will

 (still investigating an external USB adapter to use with the ZERO!)


----------



## Tsukasa

Hi
 Sorry I don't know much about the OPA...
 Is it difficult to install it? Do I have to weld it?
 Are you buying directly from lawrence when you order the DAC?
 Do you know which one will work great with my MS2?
 Thank you


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dsmudger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh sure/sorry should have said.. got the number via saynoto0870.com (good one to remember/bookmark if you don't know it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) - the one that did the trick for me was 0191 512 7003

 It's the direct-dial/non-premium-rate equivalent of 08708 501 150 listed on the site among others (head office/various specific depots/general numbers etc) as "Parcelforce (worldwide)" and "This is customer services for missing parcels, collections, etc." - seemed like the best one to go for and apparently did the trick (for what it's worth?) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well i tried ringing parcel force and they said the exact same thing to me. Its being held up and the last day they have of tracking is on the 28th December when it left Honk Kong. Thats great that is! No one kno0ws where it is. The woman thinks it will be held up somewhere in the UK in a warehouse or something. Bloody great!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wquiles* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You know, this ZERO box is indeed a great value, but if it had a built-in USB port, it would be perfect and simpler to use/connect 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Will

 (still investigating an external USB adapter to use with the ZERO!)_

 

Ya, I hear ya! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I imagine that if USB gets as popular outside of HeadFi as it is inside, then you'll see more of it on units like the Zero.

 I saw that DIYkits.com has a new little box called the "New Pc-LinK II". Can't seem to find a price, but it might be worth checking out. Looks cool!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Zero has just arrived. The package looks good. It's pretty heavy. $179 well spent. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Congratulations! Now starts the fun!


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Zero has just arrived. The package looks good. It's pretty heavy. $179 well spent. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

im very jealous! mine isn't here yet! enjoy it!


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tsukasa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi
 Sorry I don't know much about the OPA...
 Is it difficult to install it? Do I have to weld it?
 Are you buying directly from lawrence when you order the DAC?
 Do you know which one will work great with my MS2?
 Thank you_

 

Do you mean solder it? No they are on sockets. You can get Lawrence to change it for you and send you the upgraded op amp already in the dac. Thats what i did. Yeh buy it directly from Lawrence.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ya, I hear ya! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I imagine that if USB gets as popular outside of HeadFi as it is inside, then you'll see more of it on units like the Zero.

 I saw that DIYkits.com has a new little box called the "New Pc-LinK II". Can't seem to find a price, but it might be worth checking out. Looks cool! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Whats the difference with the usb as opposed to the optical or coax? Is it just another means of being able to plug it in or is the sound quality much better?


----------



## Tsukasa

Yes I did mean solder, sorry 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Which one do you advise me to get from lawrance? I have a MS-1 and MS-2.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Whats the difference with the usb as opposed to the optical or coax? Is it just another means of being able to plug it in or is the sound quality much better?_

 

Most of the USB/SPDIF adapters act as the sound card, they then convert the audio signal into SPDIF optical and you would hook this to your DAC.
 Some, are built in to portable DAC units, so there is one less connection and unit. USB is very popular here. It is convenient for notebook owners.

 The way I see it, USB has it's place in some applications. Home based units are another story though. Units like the Zero make hook up easy and USB would be more of a convenience. Ya never know though. The USB standard is going to change again soon, so we'll see how the new USB gets adapted for audio use. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Some say USB is better because there is no "Jitter", but no one seems to have ever heard jitter with optical connections and it seems to be a "non-issue" that many are concerned about.


----------



## JonM

i would like to add alittle bit to that, if unrelated. 

 I had both optical and coaxle hooked to my computer at once through the zero. Switched between the two, absolutely no difference. Hell, not even a static sound when I pressed the button.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tsukasa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes I did mean solder, sorry 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Which one do you advise me to get from lawrance? I have a MS-1 and MS-2._

 

I got the opa 627 on a browndog adaptor for the dac section. The op amps in the headphone section are standard ones that it comes with. The best person to talk to is 'shopper' or 'penchum'. my knowledge of op amps is limited plus i haven't actually heard how mine sounds yet as it hasn't arrived so i can't really comment. 'Penchum' has the dac and so does 'shopper', they will be able to advise on how it sounds. Ill let you know what i think when mine eventually arrives.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JonM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i would like to add alittle bit to that, if unrelated. 

 I had both optical and coaxle hooked to my computer at once through the zero. Switched between the two, absolutely no difference. Hell, not even a static sound when I pressed the button._

 

Yeh im going to be using optical out of my mac so hopefully it should sound fine. I also want to try bypassing my cd player dac in to the zero and see how that sounds. I'll try both the coax and optical for this.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JonM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i would like to add alittle bit to that, if unrelated. 

 I had both optical and coaxle hooked to my computer at once through the zero. Switched between the two, absolutely no difference. Hell, not even a static sound when I pressed the button._

 

Yes indeed! That is the IC controlled switching, making the switching mute and safe! I love it!!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tsukasa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes I did mean solder, sorry 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Which one do you advise me to get from lawrance? I have a MS-1 and MS-2._

 

I don't think we've gotten any feedback on those two with the Zero yet. There is a real good chance the stock Opamp will work fine with them. We should be getting some more feedback from users here in the next week or so, so keep an eye out!


----------



## Tsukasa

It's so hard to wait 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 If it is not difficult to install the opamps I think I will just take the stock zero and mod it by myself. Is there any tutorial or anything that explain how to change it? How to solder them....


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tsukasa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's so hard to wait 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 If it is not difficult to install the opamps I think I will just take the stock zero and mod it by myself. Is there any tutorial or anything that explain how to change it? How to solder them...._

 

It is so easy, when the time comes, just ask me again and I'll type it out for you. Very easy, no soldering or hassles!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My favorite!! 

 On a side thought, you IMHO should give the Zero, with the stock Opamps on board, a 100hr burn-in before changing Opamps. Almost all changes in the sound signature of the Zero & it's Opamps will happen in that first 100hr time period. When you are done and you use a different Opamp, the immediate changes in the sound signature will be very apparent to you. If you didn't do the burn-in first, there may be changes happening while you are trying out a new Opamp and you won't have any firm foundation in your mind to compare it too. Does that make any sence at all? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If not, let me know and I'll try to clarify better (on of those days I'm afraid)


----------



## Tsukasa

lol no I understand what you are saying, my MS2 will arrive soon, my MS1 is still on reparation. I have to burn-in the MS2.. When the time comes, I'll just have a PA2V2 to compare the Zero.. not the same class at all.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Zero has just arrived. The package looks good. It's pretty heavy. $179 well spent. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

So did you get the latest model? Is it all that you expected or more?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So did you get the latest model? Is it all that you expected or more?_

 

Jamato8, with a status change, can a person even get in to reply??


----------



## jamato8

Status change?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Status change?_

 

Look under Shopper's name in one of the posts.
 P.S. Wild avatar you have!!


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Look under Shopper's name in one of the posts.
 P.S. Wild avatar you have!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeah, I photographed him in Nepal summer before last.


----------



## legcramp

Anyone wanna sell me their Zero or Zhaolu that's located in the US?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aZn_plyR* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone wanna sell me their Zero or Zhaolu that's located in the US? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

LOL! I think I spilled something!


----------



## thekid22

I asked Lawrence about the possibility of USB, and he recommended this:
DIGITAL PCLINK USB-SPDIF FOR AUDIO , UDA1321 / CS8405A - eBay (item 330203212192 end time Jan-17-08 08:45:32 PST)

 does anyone know if something like this is purely digital? is there a loss of quality? (I feel that there must be given that its tiny and plastic...


----------



## mapstec

or you could use this one.
 Same technology, different housing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yes, those things absolutely work!

 Or you could use the old fashioned way and get hold of basically any PC soundcard with digital out (SPDIF) that is not fixed to 48KHZ output.


----------



## thekid22

I use a mac mini... so a traditional soundcard isn't an option.
 thanks for the feedback.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thekid22* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I use a mac mini... so a traditional soundcard isn't an option.
 thanks for the feedback._

 

Does the mac mini not have an optical out? y mac pro does, thats what im going to use.


----------



## IceClass

If I remember correctly, the Intel Mac Minis have optical in and out while the G4 versions do not.

 I popped into the post office during my lunch break and lo and behold the Zero DAC arrived!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Ran home and switched it with my Entech 205.2 and it sounded sweet for the half hour I had to listen to it.
 I can't wait to get home tonight and give it a proper ear full.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *IceClass* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I popped into the post office during my lunch break and lo and behold the Zero DAC arrived!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ran home and switched it with my Entech 205.2 and it sounded sweet for the half hour I had to listen to it.
 I can't wait to get home tonight and give it a proper ear full.



_

 

Why has everyones zero dac arrived but mine????? Im jealous!


----------



## IceClass

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why has everyones zero dac arrived but mine????? Im jealous! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

...and just to make you feel worse, I live at the ass end of the known universe!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why has everyones zero dac arrived but mine????? Im jealous! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Think positive, maybe yours is getting the "Royal" treatment?


----------



## nor_spoon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *IceClass* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...and just to make you feel worse, I live at the ass end of the known universe!



_

 

Hello neighbour!


----------



## legcramp

I think I am going to bite..... he has 5 listed for BIN on ebay, I was just uncomfortable buying directly through email...... GRRRRRR


----------



## davve

mine is going to be delivered next week!


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Think positive, maybe yours is getting the "Royal" treatment? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

Yeh its probably getting a royal kicking around some postal depot by some spotty teenager! ha ha. Seriously, it best not be!


----------



## dsmudger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Think positive, maybe yours is getting the "Royal" treatment? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

Yep, in the same boat on that one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm going to call them up again tomorrow and probably give them a bit more of an earful this time - tracking says the service is "Parcelforce 48" and it's been way more than two working days since it arrived at Heathrow - who knows maybe we'll qualify for the 25% discount for one-or-more days late... http://www.parcelforce.com/portal/pw...diaId=25900662 
 (though if so, do we get the refund or does Lawrence? Either way I'll be trying to claim it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dsmudger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep, in the same boat on that one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm going to call them up again tomorrow and probably give them a bit more of an earful this time - tracking says the service is "Parcelforce 48" and it's been way more than two working days since it arrived at Heathrow - who knows maybe we'll qualify for the 25% discount for one-or-more days late... http://www.parcelforce.com/portal/pw...diaId=25900662 
 (though if so, do we get the refund or does Lawrence? Either way I'll be trying to claim it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)_

 

yeh mine seems to be lost completely. All i have is it saying left hong kong on 28th. Theres no other record of it anywhere.


----------



## dsmudger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yeh mine seems to be lost completely. All i have is it saying left hong kong on 28th. Theres no other record of it anywhere. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Oh right.. sorry to hear that/seems yours is behind mine in the system 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think then at least in your case, maybe it's time to pull the "£150 compensation included in price" lever?

 EDIT: oh hang on, if yours hasn't made it as far as being considered under the Parcelforce 48 service, maybe it's only Lawrence who can do something similar at his end? :\


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dsmudger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh right.. sorry to hear that/seems yours is behind mine in the system 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think then at least in your case, maybe it's time to pull the "£150 compensation included in price" lever?_

 

Yeh i have to say i'm pretty p****d off! Parcel force are bloody useless. I don't mind the delay i just want to know where it is at the minute. I could relax then. Im just going to have to wait i think.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dsmudger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 EDIT: oh hang on, if yours hasn't made it as far as being considered under the Parcelforce 48 service, maybe it's only Lawrence who can do something similar at his end? :\_

 

Iv emailed him to see if he can try help me find it. Hope he can.


----------



## dsmudger

Meanwhile, I guess you could distract yourself by reading up on/deciding which ones you want+ordering some replacement op-amps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I haven't tried Texas Instruments yet (got plenty arrived+on the way for the time being!), but both National Semiconductor and Analog Devices do free samples with free delivery (even to UK addresses, up to two units per product code, which is all you need..)


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeh i have to say i'm pretty p****d off! Parcel force are bloody useless. I don't mind the delay i just want to know where it is at the minute. I could relax then. Im just going to have to wait i think. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Damm, I had no idea postal was so unpredictable there. How is customs there? Do they inject a week delay into everything coming in? I was thinking that might be part of it, but you are talking about a long month (December) with a departed China date of 28th, so that is 13 days so far, of which, the 31st and 1st are holiday, so that leaves 7 business days so far. Hummm. That is even bad by USPS standards!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hang in there! If it takes much longer, we'll start an arrival pool, winner gets something free.


----------



## sushicide

Well I dunno, USPS has lost quite a few of my rather important things(college transcript, a check, few bills, 2 government-related applications and other items I'd rather not remember.)


 Anyway, my 2nd order from Linear had arrived, I got 1 LT1364CN8, 1 LT1469CN8 and a LT1469IN8....what the heck is "IN"? The specs of CN and IN on their website are identical, did they send me an older model because they ran outta new ones or something?


----------



## IceClass

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nor_spoon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello neighbour! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I meant that in a good way BTW.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sushicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I dunno, USPS has lost quite a few of my rather important things(college transcript, a check, few bills, 2 government-related applications and other items I'd rather not remember.)


 Anyway, my 2nd order from Linear had arrived, I got 1 LT1364CN8, 1 LT1469CN8 and a LT1469IN8....what the heck is "IN"? The specs of CN and IN on their website are identical, did they send me an older model because they ran outta new ones or something?_

 

I couldn't find the difference either. Anyone else know??


----------



## Andreas_D

I'm looking for a new DAC /AMP for my pc based audio system, and I have just dicovered Zero. First time I have looked at iBasso D1, but now Zeroo is atractive too. How do you think about comparation Zero - iBasso D1 ? (DAC and Amp quality)


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Damm, I had no idea postal was so unpredictable there. How is customs there? Do they inject a week delay into everything coming in? I was thinking that might be part of it, but you are talking about a long month (December) with a departed China date of 28th, so that is 13 days so far, of which, the 31st and 1st are holiday, so that leaves 7 business days so far. Hummm. That is even bad by USPS standards!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hang in there! If it takes much longer, we'll start an arrival pool, winner gets something free. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeh there pretty useless parcel force. I don't mind the slow delay so much i just like to know where it is and that is is on the way. Makes me relax a bit. Ah well, it's just a waiting game for me!


----------



## Don Juan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sushicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I dunno, USPS has lost quite a few of my rather important things(college transcript, a check, few bills, 2 government-related applications and other items I'd rather not remember.)


 Anyway, my 2nd order from Linear had arrived, I got 1 LT1364CN8, 1 LT1469CN8 and a LT1469IN8....what the heck is "IN"? The specs of CN and IN on their website are identical, did they send me an older model because they ran outta new ones or something?_

 

"CN" is 0 to 70 °C , "IN" is -40 to +85 °C 


 Please someone compare the LT1364 to the LT1469 in the Zero, so I can spare it to myself


----------



## Ice Nine

I've been waiting around three weeks for one of these too. I'm getting impatient, lol.


----------



## Don Juan

With what I have read around here on it, I can't skip the LT1122. Probably my opamp for the analog stage. I'd see the LME49720 as a very good complement to it for the headphone amp.


----------



## king756

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Andreas_D* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm looking for a new DAC /AMP for my pc based audio system, and I have just dicovered Zero. First time I have looked at iBasso D1, but now Zeroo is atractive too. How do you think about comparation Zero - iBasso D1 ? (DAC and Amp quality)_

 

I am also interested in this to. 

 Looking to be using my Livewires with it,


----------



## IceClass

The little Zero is settling into her new home just nicely.
 She's made firm friends with Tascam and Firestone and she's got the 'phone choir singing her praises at every opportunity.

 Damn fine purchase all in all.
 I'm quite happy indeed.
 It definitely seems to offer more separation than the Entech it replaced in my stack. There's more extension to the highs and the lows are so far tight and round.

 The latest Soulwax is shaking the house!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Andreas_D* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm looking for a new DAC /AMP for my pc based audio system, and I have just dicovered Zero. First time I have looked at iBasso D1, but now Zeroo is atractive too. How do you think about comparation Zero - iBasso D1 ? (DAC and Amp quality)_

 

I'm sorry, I completely missed your post! Duh on me! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I don't know of any direct comparisons yet, but the general belief so far is that the Zero has better components and better circuitry (because it is a desktop unit) in both the pre-amp and headphone amp sections. Just looking at the power available between the two kinda tells a story in itself. Hope this helps you some!


----------



## Andreas_D

I hope I will be a proud Zero user...I bought my one yesterday
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 In the first instance I want to be impressed by DAC, I don't have a great one now, so that's the main demand from Zero. I also have a few questions about the headphone amp: 
 -Can it drive well headphones with 250ohm impedance? I'm thinking about DT880, K701...
 -Which would be a good opamp to swap the stock ones? opa627?

 For a while it will remain stock, but I also would like to roll the DAC opamp with OPA 627 due to Lawrence recommendation:

 "I highly recommended to use OPA 267.

 Burr Brown OPA 627 BP(single, ceramic) on Browndog adaptor 
 Price: US$28 each (Total US$56 for 2 singles) Browndog adaptor $5 Total: $61
 Comment: Two words sum this chip up........ "absolute class" This is single chip and it was necessary to fit two single channel 627's onto a single to dual Browndog adaptor which Adapts two single-channel DIP-8 op-amps to a dual DIP-8 pinout. These 2 single channel op amps absolutely trounced anything that had gone before them ..... the width of the soundstage, the clarity and the sheer presence make this my choice of op amp for use in the Chiarra without a shadow of a doubt. The sound is just so "clean", so "natural", so "musical" and so "detailed" with the 627's on board. The Burr Brown 627 "is" headphone heaven....... absolute class act." 
 *quoted from an email sent to me

 I saw even in your review that you were pleased with OPA627.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Andreas_D* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hope I will be a proud Zero user...I bought my one yesterday
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 In the first instance I want to be impressed by DAC, I don't have a great one now, so that's the main demand from Zero. I also have a few questions about the headphone amp: 
 -Can it drive well headphones with 250ohm impedance? I'm thinking about DT880, K701...
 -Which would be a good opamp to swap the stock ones? opa627?

 For a while it will remain stock, but I also would like to roll the DAC opamp with OPA 627 due to Lawrence recommendation:

 "I highly recommended to use OPA 267.

 Burr Brown OPA 627 BP(single, ceramic) on Browndog adaptor 
 Price: US$28 each (Total US$56 for 2 singles) Browndog adaptor $5 Total: $61
 Comment: Two words sum this chip up........ "absolute class" This is single chip and it was necessary to fit two single channel 627's onto a single to dual Browndog adaptor which Adapts two single-channel DIP-8 op-amps to a dual DIP-8 pinout. These 2 single channel op amps absolutely trounced anything that had gone before them ..... the width of the soundstage, the clarity and the sheer presence make this my choice of op amp for use in the Chiarra without a shadow of a doubt. The sound is just so "clean", so "natural", so "musical" and so "detailed" with the 627's on board. The Burr Brown 627 "is" headphone heaven....... absolute class act." 
 *quoted from an email sent to me

 I saw even in your review that you were pleased with OPA627._

 

First, Congratulations! You are going to love it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Yes, it drives my HD-650s (300ohm) easily. Advertised to 600ohms.
 Yes, I like the OPA627 for the DAC out to an amp. I wasn't as impressed with what it does to the headphone amp. But, that may be due to my HD-650s and no other reason. I just received my shipment from Linear Tech today, so I'll be trying out Opamps in the headphone board, to compensate. I have 4 different pairs to try, so I'll try to post my findings maybe Sunday night.
 Have a good one!!


----------



## cafe zeenuts

I also brought a ZERO from Lawrence on Saturday, I'm looking foward to listening to it. I wasnt planning to buy this but i have manage to cooked my ibasso D1 while upgrading blackgates caps to the board. So i needed something to replace it.


----------



## zer061zer0

DEfinitely a good buy and you will have no regrets with this amp, I got one and it replace a couple of my amps. I am also curious about the opa627


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cafe zeenuts* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I also brought a ZERO from Lawrence on Saturday, I'm looking foward to listening to it. I wasnt planning to buy this but i have manage to cooked my ibasso D1 while upgrading blackgates caps to the board. So i needed something to replace it._

 

Sorry to hear about your D1. I think you'll like the Zero. It is making new friends daily!


----------



## Fremen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry to hear about your D1. I think you'll like the Zero. It is making new friends daily! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hi there,
 I hope I will like mine: I just ordered it today
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 ZERO will have another friend ! (Lawrence is going to love this forum ...)

 Thank you Penchum for starting this thread. You did a great job!
 I'm a complete newbye in this field.
 I have a PC with coaxial output, a HD280 pro and I think I just found today the missing link between them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I am still reading this thread (p22 now) but I couldn't wait any longer to say how excited I am!
 Just have to wait now ...


----------



## IceClass

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fremen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you Penchum for starting this thread._

 

Yeah, I'll second that; nice one Penchum. Thumbs up, mate.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've just finished an intensive listen to Groove Armada's Goodbye Country CD and I'm getting some lovely extra depth and texture to the Bass and anyone who knows this CD knows it's got some seriously deep sounds going on.

 I'm wondering if a tiny touch of harshness I'm hearing in the otherwise nicely detailed highs is perhaps the zero revealing the limits of my CD player or maybe it's something an opamp might help. ??


 So far, my only criticism is that after switching off the power the selected input resets itself to the optical input and I'm currently using the coaxial.
 It just means that I keep starting my listening sessions with a three second bewildering panic as the vu meters pulse and no sound is forthcoming
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...followed by the inevitable and increasingly annoying realization... *doh*.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 On first listen, I didn't care too much for the headphone amplifier section.
 With my K701s it all just came across as too harsh, forward and generally over solid state sounding but I switched back and forth with my ATH-A700s and gave it some time and have come to appreciate it.
 I think that my initial reaction may have more to do with switching from the Firestone Cute Beyond which I run through the Tube Head preamp which give everything a slight warm and furry touch to everything.
 So, far I'm digging Me'Shell Ndegeocello's Cookie:Anthropological Mixtapes and Chris Whitley's Living with the Law.
 The amp section handles itself nicely and it'll be interesting to see if it shifts in sound at all over time.
 I still greatly prefer my Firestone amp to the zero's but the zero's is by no means a slouch and I intend to give it further listening. By now I'm even enjoying it with my K701s.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It is however too bad it doesn't allow for use of the RCA out and headphone amp use at the same time. I didn't realize you couldn't until I tried to jack a friend into the Zero while I listened through the Firestone Kit.


----------



## fault151

I tell you what, Lawrence must have made some serious cash from the zero dac and fair play to him! Id like to know how many people in total have ordered or already have the dac? It must be 20+ at least!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *IceClass* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, I'll second that; nice one Penchum. Thumbs up, mate.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've just finished an intensive listen to Groove Armada's Goodbye Country CD and I'm getting some lovely extra depth and texture to the Bass and anyone who knows this CD knows it's got some seriously deep sounds going on.

 I'm wondering if a tiny touch of harshness I'm hearing in the otherwise nicely detailed highs is perhaps the zero revealing the limits of my CD player or maybe it's something an opamp might help. ??


 So far, my only criticism is that after switching off the power the selected input resets itself to the optical input and I'm currently using the coaxial.
 It just means that I keep starting my listening sessions with a three second bewildering panic as the vu meters pulse and no sound is forthcoming
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...followed by the inevitable and increasingly annoying realization... *doh*.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 On first listen, I didn't care too much for the headphone amplifier section.
 With my K701s it all just came across as too harsh, forward and generally over solid state sounding but I switched back and forth with my ATH-A700s and gave it some time and have come to appreciate it.
 I think that my initial reaction may have more to do with switching from the Firestone Cute Beyond which I run through the Tube Head preamp which give everything a slight warm and furry touch to everything.
 So, far I'm digging Me'Shell Ndegeocello's Cookie:Anthropological Mixtapes and Chris Whitley's Living with the Law.
 The amp section handles itself nicely and it'll be interesting to see if it shifts in sound at all over time.
 I still greatly prefer my Firestone amp to the zero's but the zero's is by no means a slouch and I intend to give it further listening. By now I'm even enjoying it with my K701s.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It is however too bad it doesn't allow for use of the RCA out and headphone amp use at the same time. I didn't realize you couldn't until I tried to jack a friend into the Zero while I listened through the Firestone Kit.



_

 

Hi!
 I don't know if you made through the entire thread, but the Zero will change a lot during the first 100hrs. Any roughness will clear up and the bass will become more detailed. I've "matured" two of these Zeros and both matured the same way, so it is a real change you can count on. If the DAC out sounds pretty good, then I would suggest leaving the Zero on, with phones plugged in and running while you sleep, work, etc... and clock some additional hours this way. At the end, the headphone amp will sound very, very nice!!
 Keep letting us know how things progress!!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I tell you what, Lawrence must have made some serious cash from the zero dac and fair play to him! Id like to know how many people in total have ordered or already have the dac? It must be 20+ at least!_

 

I'm pretty sure it is close to the 50 mark. Great audio at a bargain price may be something new, but I hope we find more bargains like it!


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm pretty sure it is close to the 50 mark. Great audio at a bargain price may be something new, but I hope we find more bargains like it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 I hope so too! I just want to know why other companies can;t do the same, why do they have to charge such a huge amount. I know they put alot of time in to research and testing, but some of the gear is ridiculous in price! 

 Im still waiting on mine. Cant wait to hear it.


----------



## ilgello

Is there anyone that did some comparisons with higher dacs?


----------



## bada bing

Very nice and informative thread, thanks a bunch for the effort.

 I'm waiting on my zero - paid for it on 12-28 so it shouldn't be too long till delivery. I'm looking forward to getting it settled and then rolling through my chip collection. There will probably be a question or two and maybe some observations from me in the weeks to come.

 thanks again for the efforts and keep it up


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ilgello* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there anyone that did some comparisons with higher dacs?_

 

Well, directly, I have against my Hi-Res Entech 205.2 and the Zero won easy.
 There should be more very soon from other folks.


----------



## Penchum

After 3 hours of comparing Opamps in the Zero, keeping in mind I wanted to use the OPA627's on the main board (it sounds great RCA out to my amp), I started swapping everything I have into the headphone board, looking for a great sounding pair. It turns out the LT1364's in the headphone board really sounds excellent. Also, keep in mind, this was using my HD-650s.

 I additionally verified the quality of sound coming out of the DAC by running it to my MKIVse tube headphone amp, to see how that was going to sound! I haven't taken my HD-650s off of my head yet!! It sounds great! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So, we have our first Combo that works well with HD-650s and pre-amp duties!


----------



## fault151

Wahoo my parcel has arrived in England! Parcel force thought it got lost so im pretty pleased it hasn't!


----------



## IceClass

I've got a weird one for you fellahs. I started listening to my Sansui SS-100s through the Zero last night and it's the best I've ever heard the SS100s sounding...ever!
 I switched back and forth between my Zero and the Firestone kit and the Zero wins hands down. Waaay more headroom, soundstage and heaps of really good deep bass. Frankly they sound pretty crap on the Firestone kit. I have to crank the volume to high hell to get anything out of them and it's a bit thin and compressed sounding with snare drums sounding like cardboard boxes *thwap*. But plug them into the Zero and they suddenly open right up.
 Awesome! Prior to this fortuitous discovery I'd mainly kept the Sansuis for chamber music (they do crazy things to harpsichords) but I'm now listening to Groove Armada and seriously digging it.
 This is not the case for my dynamics however.
 While my K701s and ATH-A700s sound great on the Zero in their own distinctive ways they are outclassed by the Firestone rig.
 Anyone have any theories?

 Either way, I'm happy; I just got new sounds and new uses for my treasured SS100s.


----------



## dsmudger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wahoo my parcel has arrived in England! Parcel force thought it got lost so im pretty pleased it hasn't!_

 

Yep must've been the same delay - got mine just now/got it sitting under the desk at work - just counting the minutes 'til home-time now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (wow am I glad that's over - was absolute torture waiting since Dec. 8th! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## Fremen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After 3 hours of comparing Opamps in the Zero, keeping in mind I wanted to use the OPA627's on the main board (it sounds great RCA out to my amp), I started swapping everything I have into the headphone board, looking for a great sounding pair. It turns out the LT1364's in the headphone board really sounds excellent. Also, keep in mind, this was using my HD-650s.



_

 

Did you compare the stock opa2604, the LM4562 et the OPA627's with your HD280pro? As it is the only decent headphone I have (don't laugh 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), I was wondering if the differences between those OP's you noticed with your HD-650s where also the same with the HD280pro.
 I already have some LM4562's to try but I was wondering about getting some OPA627's before my Zero arrive. I would be glad to have your opinion.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fremen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you compare the stock opa2604, the LM4562 et the OPA627's with your HD280pro? As it is the only decent headphone I have (don't laugh 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





), I was wondering if the differences between those OP's you noticed with your HD-650s where also the same with the HD280pro.
 I already have some LM4562's to try but I was wondering about getting some OPA627's before my Zero arrive. I would be glad to have your opinion._

 

Hi!

 I wish I could have, but the time it took to use just one headphone, with all the variables of the Opamps, still took me most of the day. However, I may be able to give you a couple of impressions. Fully broke in HD-280pros are bass heavy. Knowing that, the first Opamp I would want to try would be the LM4562 on the main board. This may be what you are looking for. It would give your headphones more mids and treble, while tightening up the bass area. I would try this before investing in the more expensive 627s. YMMV.


----------



## Seba

I have wrote two e-mails to Chan Lawrence regarding the payment and shipping and I haven't received an answer yet. I'm a bit worried that when I'm going to get the Zero or if I'm going to get it at all.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seba* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have wrote two e-mails to Chan Lawrence regarding the payment and shipping and I haven't received an answer yet. I'm a bit worried that when I'm going to get the Zero or if I'm going to get it at all._

 

Well, I guess I have to eat my words. I looked high and low and can't seem to find what I thought I read. Did you purchase through ebay?


----------



## cafe zeenuts

For those Head Fi'er that have order from Lawrence last couple days, have any of you guys got any info from Lawrence when he is going to ship them out? 

 I have order my on 11-Jan and i have not heard from him yet I'm getting a bit worrie.


----------



## Kake

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cafe zeenuts* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For those Head Fi'er that have order from Lawrence last couple days, have any of you guys got any info from Lawrence when he is going to ship them out? 

 I have order my on 11-Jan and i have not heard from him yet I'm getting a bit worrie._

 


 I also am waiting for some email response from Chan. I have transferred the money (e-bay auction) and are waiting for him too ship the Zero.

 I'm not in panic mode yet..but one or two more days and I'm not so sure what my state of mind is.. (order date 26.des). Athough have recived my Opamp's which was ordered afther the amp.


----------



## Trapper32

When I saw that there were 6 up for sale on EBay on Jan 2, I emailed Lawrence with a few questions . He said they would be coming in that week or early the next week. With that in mind I pulled the trigger and was first on the list on Jan 2nd. When I hadn't heard after a week I emailed him again and he replied on Jan 11 and said that new stock would be arriving next week. He said he'd let me know when it was sent. I'm a bit disappointed in the till now two week delay from when he initially said they'd be in but hopefully I'll get some confirmation of shipping in the next day or so. He mentioned in the first email that it was first come first served...I hope thats true...I'll let u know if I hear more...


----------



## bada bing

I went back and reviewed biglawhk's ebay feedback. There is feed back on Jan 11 from a buyer in the same batch of 5 as mine - paid for on Dec 28.

 Mine isn't here yet, but no worries. Hopefully soon. Buying stuff from China has a wildly variable delivery time, at least here in Alaska.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trapper32* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When I saw that there were 6 up for sale on EBay on Jan 2, I emailed Lawrence with a few questions . He said they would be coming in that week or early the next week. With that in mind I pulled the trigger and was first on the list on Jan 2nd. When I hadn't heard after a week I emailed him again and he replied on Jan 11 and said that new stock would be arriving next week. He said he'd let me know when it was sent. I'm a bit disappointed in the till now two week delay from when he initially said they'd be in but hopefully I'll get some confirmation of shipping in the next day or so. He mentioned in the first email that it was first come first served...I hope thats true...I'll let u know if I hear more..._

 

I thought I had read something along these dates.


----------



## cafe zeenuts

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bada bing* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I went back and reviewed biglawhk's ebay feedback. There is feed back on Jan 11 from a buyer in the same batch of 5 as mine - paid for on Dec 28.

 Mine isn't here yet, but no worries. Hopefully soon. Buying stuff from China has a wildly variable delivery time, at least here in Alaska._

 

Hey, so your zero have been ship out and not yet received or its not been ship out at all.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bada bing* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I went back and reviewed biglawhk's ebay feedback. There is feed back on Jan 11 from a buyer in the same batch of 5 as mine - paid for on Dec 28.

 Mine isn't here yet, but no worries. Hopefully soon. Buying stuff from China has a wildly variable delivery time, at least here in Alaska._

 

I bought mine this day and mine has just arrived today. I hope your turns up soon. I know how frustrating it is waiting in silence. 


 I can't wait to get this thing run in a bit. I'm amazed at how much better it looks in real life compared to pics. I'm listening to it at the min. The headphone amp seriously needs to burn in a bit first. I'm very happy with it though and i can't wait to hear the changes.


----------



## Seba

I didn't bought my unit from eBay, I bought it straight by e-mail from Chan Lawrence. He said to me also that there will be a batch of 50 units and about 30 of them were reserved. And mentioned the "first come first serve" sentence.

 Fortunately I paid with PayPal so if the deal fells through I won't lose money.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seba* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I didn't bought my unit from eBay, I bought it straight by e-mail from Chan Lawrence. He said to me also that there will be a batch of 50 units and about 30 of them were reserved. And mentioned the "first come first serve" sentence.

 Fortunately I paid with PayPal so if the deal fells through I won't lose money._

 

Ok, good. Then I would guess you were in the batch due out this week or early next week? Sure hope so.


----------



## Kake

Anyone received any mail's from Chan Lawrence lately?


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seba* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I didn't bought my unit from eBay, I bought it straight by e-mail from Chan Lawrence. He said to me also that there will be a batch of 50 units and about 30 of them were reserved. And mentioned the "first come first serve" sentence.

 Fortunately I paid with PayPal so if the deal fells through I won't lose money._

 

Thats how i bought mine through paypal, not ebay. It should be fine. I was told the same thing. I just had to wait. I think he's selling these things faster than he can get hold/make them.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kake* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone received any mail's from Chan Lawrence lately?_

 

yeh i did today, about 2 minutes ago.


----------



## ricmat

may anyone tell me where may I buy one Zero?


----------



## Kake

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yeh i did today, about 2 minutes ago._

 

Good to hear, he has not fallen of the edge of the world or something. 

 So the reason for not answering my mails is that Hi's tired of my spam.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ricmat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_may anyone tell me where may I buy one Zero?_

 

email Chan Lawrence who sell them, thats where most of us got them. Heres his email:

lawrencechanbig@msn.com


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kake* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good to hear, he has not fallen of the edge of the world or something. 

 So the reason for not answering my mails is that Hi's tired of my spam. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

ha ha, i kept pestering him with emails asking where my item may be. I don't think he immediately responded to them either. I guess it must be annoying as he will get loads. Are you trying to track an item?


----------



## Kake

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ha ha, i kept pestering him with emails asking where my item may be. I don't think he immediately responded to them either. I guess it must be annoying as he will get loads. Are you trying to track an item?_

 

I haven't received an tracking number yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Or .. Have received an tracking nr which i believed where my Zero, but i was the opamps. (So combined shipping actually means split shipping for the cost of one.)


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kake* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I haven't received an tracking number yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Or .. Have received an tracking nr which i believed where my Zero, but i was the opamps. (So combined shipping actually means split shipping for the cost of one.)_

 

Well when i bought mine he had them in stock but didn't send them out for a few days. When he managed to send them out, he issued me with a number for tracking. There may be just a delay in sending them out? I hope it works out for you.


----------



## ricmat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_email Chan Lawrence who sell them, thats where most of us got them. Heres his email:

lawrencechanbig@msn.com_

 


 thanks! e-mail sent!


----------



## king756

I've just sent a email aswell about ordering one.

 I asked, 
If he had any in stock
Estimated shipping time
Total cost including delivery

 I got a short response saying cost is $180, no mention of my other questions. He also sent a paypal invoice.

 Going off the other info in here I took the chance and paid the invoice, hope fully i'll now receive some more details. If not I can claim back through paypal, hopefully all is well though.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *king756* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've just sent a email aswell about ordering one.

 I asked, 
If he had any in stock
Estimated shipping time
Total cost including delivery

 I got a short response saying cost is $180, no mention of my other questions. He also sent a paypal invoice.

 Going off the other info in here I took the chance and paid the invoice, hope fully i'll now receive some more details. If not I can claim back through paypal, hopefully all is well though._

 

well i think i'm correct in saying thats the exact way we all payed on here through Lawrence and paypal. It should work out fine for you.


----------



## mapstec

So I got mine today and it is running for something like 30 mins now.

 The one thin I find interesting is that I can not remember anyone else mentioning that it stinks!

 I know the odor will dissipate hopefully soon, but still, the Yulong (link in signature) that I got a few days ago did not have this problem.

 But on to the bit that interests us all, the sound:
 Yes, it does not sound its best, but still, right out of the gate I like it.
 Bass feels boomy and maybe the highs can do with a bit of taming, but the soundstage is nice and it sounds involving, I feel myself drawn into the music.

 Thanks again to Penchum for bringing the Zero to our attention!


----------



## charley phogg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I bought mine this day and mine has just arrived today. I hope your turns up soon. I know how frustrating it is waiting in silence. 


 I can't wait to get this thing run in a bit. I'm amazed at how much better it looks in real life compared to pics. I'm listening to it at the min. The headphone amp seriously needs to burn in a bit first. I'm very happy with it though and i can't wait to hear the changes._

 

 Hey Fault, glad to see your zero came in. looking forward to hearing how it sounds with your Green.


----------



## dsmudger

Did some listening yesterday/here's some first impressions.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 To be perfectly honest (and this seems to go against what most are saying on here..) I didn't like the stock sound very much at all.. maybe it's that I'm playing into Grados (RS1), unlike I think many on here who have Sennheisers (HD650)?

 Couldn't help myself and started swapping opamps (sorry penchum, I know you say this isn't recommended 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but surely I can let it burn in with some better opamps? +does it really make _that_ much of a difference?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 Tried a bunch of combinations, but haven't found one yet that beats my Headroom Total Bithead (tell the truth, I've found some new respect for it after comparing with the stock Zero and some of the less-good opamp combos..), however LM4562 in the mainboard and LME49720 in the headamp makes it sing quite nicely for my taste and comes pretty close - this amount of difference, I could believe will improve with burn in.... (might leave it like this for a bit now/not sure yet..)


 Some notes on some of the combos I tried (remember this is without burn in and it's playing into Grado RS1 which are quite bright revealing phones compared to Sennheiser HD600 for example.. though not sure how they might compare to HD650?)

 (notes kept short, so prob. a bit exagerated/might sound a bit harsh!)


> *Stock amp in headamp, changed main to DY2000*: more musical, but still didn't like the sound much...
> 
> Changed to *LT1364 in the headamp*
> 
> ...


Oh, at some point in the proceedings I tried LT1028 in the headamp - they didn't work; just got really hot and the sound came out of only the right channel at low volume, + turning the volume control knob had no effect on the volume level even down at zero! 

 Was a bit worried, but swapping to something else sorted the problem.. (they were the right way round and pretty sure they were seated in the socket ok..). Sure I was being a complete idiot in one way or another doing that - does anyone know what the actual issue was there? From the rest of the thread, have I inferred correctly that you can put a dual in a single socket and it'll work as a single? (or was that the problem?)


 Might try swapping the mainboard amp around a bit tonight, maybe see how I get on with the DY2000 as comparing back to back with the Bithead it's this/'musical' quality that's what's slightly lacking with my current amp combo, though they're now on par in terms of pace and detail...

 (By the way/for reference, I was using just about the most challenging music I have - it's banging hard house, but different to the usual/what you might expect, in that the guys who made it use a lot of real/live instruments (full drum kit/trombone/electric guitars) and they're classically trained musicians so you get an awful lot of nuance/subtlety/structure in there.. (not just fast synths over the top of BANG BANG BANG BANG 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). I've listened to it a lot/know the material well, so I hear immediately if something's missing and it's also a great test of this 'pace' thing I keep referring to... anyway, thought I should mention as I'm sure the type of music makes a difference with this sort of thing.../i.e. some of the combos I listed as didn't-like-it might well be awesome for less detail+pace-orientated music..)


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *charley phogg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Fault, glad to see your zero came in. looking forward to hearing how it sounds with your Green._

 

Cheers, im letting the zero dac and head amp burn in then i'll begin comparing the two. I may change the op amps in my zero first though. So far i really like the zero.


----------



## mapstec

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dsmudger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh, at some point in the proceedings I tried LT1028 in the headamp - they didn't work; just got really hot and the sound came out of only the right channel at low volume, + turning the volume control knob had no effect on the volume level even down at zero! _

 

Well, the LT1028 is a single opamp and so you need the two you have on an adapter to replace any one of the opamps used in the zero.
 So you would need 4 and two adapters for the headphone amp.


 On a different note, I just switched the Zero to pure DAC duty and right now I am seriously underwhelmed!!

 Strange ....

 Please bear in mind, unit is just two hours running...

 I will investigate further and keep you posted.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mapstec* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I got mine today and it is running for something like 30 mins now.

 The one thin I find interesting is that I can not remember anyone else mentioning that it stinks!

 I know the odor will dissipate hopefully soon, but still, the Yulong (link in signature) that I got a few days ago did not have this problem.

 But on to the bit that interests us all, the sound:
 Yes, it does not sound its best, but still, right out of the gate I like it.
 Bass feels boomy and maybe the highs can do with a bit of taming, but the soundstage is nice and it sounds involving, I feel myself drawn into the music.

 Thanks again to Penchum for bringing the Zero to our attention!_

 

You're welcome! Ya, I forgot, mine was kinda stink-o for the first day, but that passed. Run it and run it and run it, big changes around 45hrs with subtle changes up to 100hrs, always better too.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dsmudger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did some listening yesterday/here's some first impressions.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 To be perfectly honest (and this seems to go against what most are saying on here..) I didn't like the stock sound very much at all.. maybe it's that I'm playing into Grados (RS1), unlike I think many on here who have Sennheisers (HD650)?

 Couldn't help myself and started swapping opamps (sorry penchum, I know you say this isn't recommended 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but surely I can let it burn in with some better opamps? +does it really make that much of a difference?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 Tried a bunch of combinations, but haven't found one yet that beats my Headroom Total Bithead (tell the truth, I've found some new respect for it after comparing with the stock Zero and some of the less-good opamp combos..), however LM4562 in the mainboard and LME49720 in the headamp makes it sing quite nicely for my taste and comes pretty close - this amount of difference, I could believe will improve with burn in.... (might leave it like this for a bit now/not sure yet..)


 Some notes on some of the combos I tried (remember this is without burn in and it's playing into Grado RS1 which are quite bright revealing phones compared to Sennheiser HD600 for example.. though not sure how they might compare to HD650?)

 (notes kept short, so prob. a bit exagerated/might sound a bit harsh!)



*Stock amp in headamp, changed main to DY2000*: more musical, but still didn't like the sound much...

 Changed to *LT1364 in the headamp*



*stock amp in main*: muddy overall, raspy/sandpaper-y highs
 changed to *DY2000 in main*: still a bit raspy, but more open and more musical
 changed to *LM4562 in main*: "aha! hello, this is a bit better..." better clarity, much better 'pace', still a bit raspy
		
Click to expand...

Changed back to *stock amp in headamp (keeping LM4562 in the main)*: still muddy overall but some of the better clarity definitely remained compared to stock, upper mid + v. low bass now very recessed, pace ok - better than stock, but worse than with the LT1364 in the headamp

 Changed to *LME49720 in headamp (still the LM4562 in main)*: "oh wow, now it sings nice!" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Bithead prob. still sounds a little better, but I'm listening through entire tracks now, not skipping around straining to hear differences/things I know should be there/switching between sources all the time.
		
Click to expand...

Oh, at some point in the proceedings I tried LT1028 in the headamp - they didn't work; just got really hot and the sound came out of only the right channel at low volume, + turning the volume control knob had no effect on the volume level even down at zero! 

 Was a bit worried, but swapping to something else sorted the problem.. (they were the right way round and pretty sure they were seated in the socket ok..). Sure I was being a complete idiot in one way or another doing that - does anyone know what the actual issue was there? From the rest of the thread, have I inferred correctly that you can put a dual in a single socket and it'll work as a single? (or was that the problem?)


 Might try swapping the mainboard amp around a bit tonight, maybe see how I get on with the DY2000 as comparing back to back with the Bithead it's this/'musical' quality that's what's slightly lacking with my current amp combo, though they're now on par in terms of pace and detail...

 (By the way/for reference, I was using just about the most challenging music I have - it's banging hard house, but different to the usual/what you might expect, in that the guys who made it use a lot of real/live instruments (full drum kit/trombone/electric guitars) and they're classically trained musicians so you get an awful lot of nuance/subtlety/structure in there.. (not just fast synths over the top of BANG BANG BANG BANG 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). I've listened to it a lot/know the material well, so I hear immediately if something's missing and it's also a great test of this 'pace' thing I keep referring to... anyway, thought I should mention as I'm sure the type of music makes a difference with this sort of thing.../i.e. some of the combos I listed as didn't-like-it might well be awesome for less detail+pace-orientated music..)_

 

Yes, this is how I imagined the Zero would sound out of the box with bright headphones. Maybe you see now, a little, that early swapping means you'll be back swapping again, later. NO biggie! The LT1028 is a single, not a dual, so ya, it will not work without two on an adapter. There is no room on the headphone board for the adapters, so we are limited to Dual Opamps only.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Good luck!!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mapstec* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, the LT1028 is a single opamp and so you need the two you have on an adapter to replace any one of the opamps used in the zero.
 So you would need 4 and two adapters for the headphone amp.


 On a different note, I just switched the Zero to pure DAC duty and right now I am seriously underwhelmed!!

 Strange ....

 Please bear in mind, unit is just two hours running...

 I will investigate further and keep you posted._

 

Do you have the stock Opamps in it still, or did I miss a post. Eh, what a day for me! I'm so glad you guys got your units! Time is on your side now, let them babies burn-in before too much critical listening!


----------



## dsmudger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mapstec* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I got mine today and it is running for something like 30 mins now.

 The one thin I find interesting is that I can not remember anyone else mentioning that it stinks!

 I know the odor will dissipate hopefully soon, but still,_

 

You're right - mine smelled of solder flux out of the box (gone now, but I've had the lid off for a while..), I thought of it as/reminded me of new-car-smell, or maybe what one of my friends has termed "the-smell-of-new" - that one you get flicking through a new book or unpacking a new monitor 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 in other words not entirely unpleasant to some..


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dsmudger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You're right - mine smelled of solder flux out of the box (gone now, but I've had the lid off for a while..), I thought of it as/reminded me of new-car-smell, or maybe what one of my friends has termed "the-smell-of-new" - that one you get flicking through a new book or unpacking a new monitor 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 in other words not entirely unpleasant to some.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Mine was like that a little bit, it soon went. Wasn't a nice smell was it!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dsmudger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You're right - mine smelled of solder flux out of the box (gone now, but I've had the lid off for a while..), I thought of it as/reminded me of new-car-smell, or maybe what one of my friends has termed "the-smell-of-new" - that one you get flicking through a new book or unpacking a new monitor 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 in other words not entirely unpleasant to some.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

There is your million dollar idea! Home spray freshner that smells like new electronics! Every audiophile would have to buy some!!!


----------



## dsmudger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The LT1028 is a single, not a dual, so ya, it will not work without two on an adapter. There is no room on the headphone board for the adapters, so we are limited to Dual Opamps only.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Good luck!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Right ok thanks for straightening that one out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My reasoning went that since there appeared to be two ICs (on a symmetrical looking board as well..) they must be singles, one for each channel 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (so if I'm right in thinking single=single channel/mono, dual=dual channel/stereo - do they use two duals so they can link the two channels of each so they can get higher gain out of fewer components/smaller PCB?)

 EDIT: Hang on, I just realised/don't think you can chain amps of equal specification running off the same voltage rail like that and get any extra gain.. obviously got the wrong end of the stick - why do they use two duals in the headphone board?


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dsmudger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Right ok thanks for straightening that one out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My reasoning went that since there appeared to be two ICs (on a symmetrical looking board as well..) they must be singles, one for each channel 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (so if I'm right in thinking single=single channel/mono, dual=dual channel/stereo - do they use two duals so they can link the two channels of each so they can get higher gain out of fewer components/smaller PCB?)

 EDIT: Hang on, I just realised/don't think you can chain amps of equal specification running off the same voltage rail like that and get any extra gain.. obviously got the wrong end of the stick - why do they use two duals in the headphone board? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I wonder what Lawrence was on about then, he said to put the two opa 627's on browndogs in the headphone amp. Unless he was going to force them in to fit. I can't see ho w though. Theres two little resistors in the way which would need bending down.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dsmudger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Right ok thanks for straightening that one out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My reasoning went that since there appeared to be two ICs (on a symmetrical looking board as well..) they must be singles, one for each channel 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (so if I'm right in thinking single=single channel/mono, dual=dual channel/stereo - do they use two duals so they can link the two channels of each so they can get higher gain out of fewer components/smaller PCB?)

 EDIT: Hang on, I just realised/don't think you can chain amps of equal specification running off the same voltage rail like that and get any extra gain.. obviously got the wrong end of the stick - why do they use two duals in the headphone board? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wonder what Lawrence was on about then, he said to put the two opa 627's on browndogs in the headphone amp. Unless he was going to force them in to fit. I can't see ho w though. Theres two little resistors in the way which would need bending down._

 

I'm pretty sure that Shopper asked him that question somewhere, but the answer was one (dual) Opamp for each channel, L&R. I had ASSumed it was for the extra gain, allowing larger loads like 600ohm loads? But, I've slept since then, so I could be totally wrong.


----------



## charley phogg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cheers, im letting the zero dac and head amp burn in then i'll begin comparing the two. I may change the op amps in my zero first though. So far i really like the zero._

 


 Good to hear you like it. I've been following this thread from the beginning as it's one of the dac's I'll be considering for my next upgrade after my Green comes. Going to be a bit before I can do that though, and I'm unsure if I'll go this route, or hold off and just go direct to a higher end dac. But I do like hearing the improvements as I move up the food chain and think it will be fun in modding and rolling opamps. Guess it really depends how soon upgradietis sets in after my new baby comes.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *charley phogg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good to hear you like it. I've been following this thread from the beginning as it's one of the dac's I'll be considering for my next upgrade after my Green comes. Going to be a bit before I can do that though, and I'm unsure if I'll go this route, or hold off and just go direct to a higher end dac. But I do like hearing the improvements as I move up the food chain and think it will be fun in modding and rolling opamps. Guess it really depends how soon upgradietis sets in after my new baby comes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It is actually good you are keeping the Zero in the back of your mind. I don't know about the rest of these fellas, but when my babies arrived, I found myself looking to get satisfaction on a very tight budget. Those little ones sure can burn a budget quick!! Good luck on the little one!!!


----------



## mapstec

Did I mention I am not the patient type? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Swapped the DAC opamp for my personal favorite: OPA2107.

 Happy listening now, need to test the DAC out later and then let the Zero simply burn / settle in.

 Penchum, you are right, one should always keep the budget in mind.
 I am looking for something cheap but good for the work desk and the Zero certainly fits the bill.


----------



## mapstec

Has someone tried to trace the circuitry of the Zero?

 When I look at the layout and the fact that you can not listen to the headphone out when the external DAC out is active I thought that one of the relays at the back of the Zero is responsible for routing either to the external out or to the headamp.

 Now I wonder about the various wires between the main board and the amp board:

 I believe that the three stranded wire is the power supply and that leaves two sets of four that very much look like two stereo connections.

 Now one I would understand: from the Dac to the headamp for amplification and then to the headphone socket.

 But what about the second pair? Does it go back from the headamp to the main out? I am not good enough to deduce it from the layout.

 Anybody any ideas?

 I don't want to to try and unclip various wires to see what then does not work anymore....


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mapstec* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has someone tried to trace the circuitry of the Zero?

 When I look at the layout and the fact that you can not listen to the headphone out when the external DAC out is active I thought that one of the relays at the back of the Zero is responsible for routing either to the external out or to the headamp.

 Now I wonder about the various wires between the main board and the amp board:

 I believe that the three stranded wire is the power supply and that leaves two sets of four that very much look like two stereo connections.

 Now one I would understand: from the Dac to the headamp for amplification and then to the headphone socket.

 But what about the second pair? Does it go back from the headamp to the main out? I am not good enough to deduce it from the layout.

 Anybody any ideas?

 I don't want to to try and unclip various wires to see what then does not work anymore...._

 

Not that I'm aware of. I know there are IC controlled switching circuits and also protection circuits for both the DAC and Head board. I've been too busy enjoying it!!


----------



## jamato8

Has anyone tried the LT1364 in the DAC, and two LT1469 in the headphone amp?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone tried the LT1364 in the DAC, and two LT1469 in the headphone amp?_

 

Not exactly. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I started with the idea of keeping the OPA627s in the DAC, then tried many others and ended up keeping the LT1364s in the head board.

 When I get the chance, I'll do some more swapping and see how it sounds.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone tried the LT1364 in the DAC, and two LT1469 in the headphone amp?_

 

I'm doing the swap right now.


----------



## dantztiludrop

I've searched this thread & found some results for ebay seller snow48_6, but nothing conclusive. Has anyone ordered from them & had a successful transaction? How was shipping time? As it is not from Lawrence, is this a genuine Zero Dac? Is it the upgraded version & what's the deal with the green caps vs blue box caps?

 Thanks for any info?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone tried the LT1364 in the DAC, and two LT1469 in the headphone amp?_

 

Ok, Opamps in place. Lossless WAV, X-Fi optical to Zero, DAC out to Super-T amp. I can't turn the volume up on the Super-T much, the wifes asleep, but, what I can hear sounds pretty good. The Headphone amp, with HD-580s in, sounds excellent! Full spectrum, dynamic and bass that is low and tight and has great impact! Where did you dream up this combo?? From other swaps?


----------



## dantztiludrop

Another question (other than 1 above about ebay seller snow48_6): how do you think synergy would be with LD MK III & D2000? I listen to music across the spectrum, but not rap/hip hop/metal.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mapstec* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has someone tried to trace the circuitry of the Zero?

 When I look at the layout and the fact that you can not listen to the headphone out when the external DAC out is active I thought that one of the relays at the back of the Zero is responsible for routing either to the external out or to the headamp.

 Now I wonder about the various wires between the main board and the amp board:

 I believe that the three stranded wire is the power supply and that leaves two sets of four that very much look like two stereo connections.

 Now one I would understand: from the Dac to the headamp for amplification and then to the headphone socket.

 But what about the second pair? Does it go back from the headamp to the main out? I am not good enough to deduce it from the layout.

 Anybody any ideas?

 I don't want to to try and unclip various wires to see what then does not work anymore...._

 

Maybe this info can help too. Earlier in testing, we found out that the mainboard Opamp has a sonic impact on the headboard output, but the headboard Opamps have no effect on the DAC output. Rather like a one way street.


----------



## dantztiludrop

Sorry double-post


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dantztiludrop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How do you think the synergy would be with the Zero, LD MKIII & D2000 (opamps aside for time being)?_

 

Sorry, I was swappin stuff. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My Zero with stock Opamps in it had great synergy with my MKIVse. I would say the MKIII should be in the same boat at least!!


----------



## Cecala

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is your million dollar idea! Home spray freshner that smells like new electronics! Every audiophile would have to buy some!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Be careful now, I took out a patent on this very idea years ago. I have yet to do anything about it though.


----------



## Lyre

Dac / Amp :

 LT1358 + LT1469

 LT1469 + LT1358

 DY2000 + LT1469

 LT1469 + OPA2132

 AD8599 + LT1361

 LT1028 + LT1361

 LT1028 + LT1358

 AD797 + LT1469

 AD797 + LT1361


----------



## Lyre

How's LT1364 + LT1469 going btw?


----------



## Henmyr

Any suggestions for smooth and neutral op-amps?

 I'm looking for the best synergizing op-amp combo for both dac/amp for DT880 and maybe another or the same op-amp combo for MS2i.

 The op-amps must have a very smooth treble and a very present and almost liquid midrange for the dt880. 

 For MS2i, I think something very transparent, natural and rich would be best. Any suggestions?

 I'm thinking maybe DY2000, but it is slightly expensive. Also very interested in LT1057 and LT1028.


----------



## Lyre

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any suggestions for smooth and neutral op-amps?

 I'm looking for the best synergizing op-amp combo for both dac/amp for DT880 and maybe another or the same op-amp combo for MS2i.

 The op-amps must have a very smooth treble and a very present and almost liquid midrange for the dt880. 

 For MS2i, I think something very transparent, natural and rich would be best. Any suggestions?

 I'm thinking maybe DY2000, but it is slightly expensive. Also very interested in LT1057 and LT1028._

 

All the LT opamps are smooth, and mostly neutral. All have beautifully smooth and colorful midrange with lovely presence.

 The LT1469 is one of the softer LTs, yet is very very clean. The LT1361 should pair very well with it, as the LT1358. In your place I'd probably try with the LT1358/1361 in the Dac and the LT1469 in the amp.

 Also the LT1028 is smooth and pleasant, it's definitely worth trying in the Dac.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *charley phogg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good to hear you like it. I've been following this thread from the beginning as it's one of the dac's I'll be considering for my next upgrade after my Green comes. Going to be a bit before I can do that though, and I'm unsure if I'll go this route, or hold off and just go direct to a higher end dac. But I do like hearing the improvements as I move up the food chain and think it will be fun in modding and rolling opa mps. Guess it really depends how soon upgradietis sets in after my new baby comes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well i can tell you i think you will love the Graham slee amp, I do! I went round to grahams to listen to it before i made a purchase and i have to say i was really impressed with all his gear. I tried loads of music through various items he had made including the new voyager portable and i loved the solo! I went round with the intention of buying the voyager but left with a few hundred pounds lighter buying the solo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 At the minute i'm burning in the dac and using the opa 627 in the dac and the LT1364 in the headphone amp section. Both are upgrades on the original spec and it shows. I left it playing away over night coming up to 25 hours and already i like the sound. I can't help having a quick listen to the solo via the dac every now and then. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 When did you order your solo?


----------



## Mushroom_2

Quote:


 I've searched this thread & found some results for ebay seller snow48_6, but nothing conclusive. Has anyone ordered from them & had a successful transaction? How was shipping time? As it is not from Lawrence, is this a genuine Zero Dac? Is it the upgraded version & what's the deal with the green caps vs blue box caps? 
 

I ordered one from him on 3rd Dec and received it on 30th. Pretty good I thought considering Xmas. No UK tax to pay either.
 Sorry I'm not into taking it apart. It sounds very good to me as is. I use HD650's with it and as a DAC for my Squeezebox.


----------



## Lyre

One opamp combination that should be quite good for all seasons is LT1469 + OPA2132. But I'd make sure you get the OPA2132UA and mount them on Browndogs, the reason being that this opamp series has recently been revised which I'm only sure about for the SMD versions (in fact the OPA132P and PA are now labeled "obsolete").

 Alternatively to the OPA2132, you may very well use the DY2000.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lyre* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How's LT1364 + LT1469 going btw?_

 







 With this combo, the headboard output is incredible! I'm not sure if the DAC output is all that good though. I may try reversing this combo to see if the DAC output will sound better and "hopefully" maintain the headphone output sound?


----------



## Lyre

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 With this combo, the headboard output is incredible! I'm not sure if the DAC output is all that good though. I may try reversing this combo to see if the DAC output will sound better and "hopefully" maintain the headphone output sound? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

In which way isn't the line output that good? Is it too bright, maybe?


 The LT1469 should be great also in the Dac. So surely you may try reversing the LTs you're using; or use the LT1469 in the Dac & one of the aforementioned LT1358, DY2000 and OPA2132 in the amp.


----------



## Lyre

Btw, if the LT1364 is too bright the LT1358 should fix it.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lyre* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In which way isn't the line output that good? Is it too bright, maybe?


 The LT1469 should be great also in the Dac. So surely you may try reversing the LTs you're using; or use the LT1469 in the Dac & one of the aforementioned LT1358, DY2000 and OPA2132 in the amp._

 

I'll double check how it's doing in a little while. My impressions may have been "off" a little bit. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm having a bad spell and medications can interfere some. But, on a side note, my MKV is making me smile bigtime!


----------



## fault151

Quick question:

 It was suggested yesterday by penchum to replace the slee solo knob like i had done with the zero dac. It's something i have been thinking about for a while. The zero has been replaced with the chrome knob shown in the pic below. Do you think i should swap the solo to the same knob? *Yes* or *no*? I'm undecided. Its really not that important i guess, i just wouldn't mind some opinions. 

 Cheers






 I don't think the pics really do them knob any justice at all. It gets warped by the lens.


----------



## king756

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mushroom_2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered one from him on 3rd Dec and received it on 30th. Pretty good I thought considering Xmas. *No UK tax to pay either*.
 Sorry I'm not into taking it apart. It sounds very good to me as is. I use HD650's with it and as a DAC for my Squeezebox._

 

Thanks, I was going to ask had any UK users been stung by HM Customs and Excise. I should have some money spare now to put towards some Sennheiser HD 650 / AKG K701's to use with the amp as well as my Livewires.

 What a expensive find this site turned out to be


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *king756* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks, I was going to ask had any UK users been stung by HM Customs and Excise. I should have some money spare now to put towards some Sennheiser HD 650 / AKG K701's to use with the amp as well as my Livewires.

 What a expensive find this site turned out to be 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeh i didn't have to pay tax either.


----------



## davve

has he got any zero's in stock now? i have sent mail but no respond.


----------



## fault151

Ok i'm starting to notice big changes in the op amps i'm using. The LT1364 sounds great, but, it's not very forgiving with poorly recorded songs or bad quality songs such as mp3 or other lower format compressed songs. This doesn't really bother me as i'm using lossless, but for those using it from a computer, it may effect the sound. 

 I do love the opa 627 and the Lt1364 set up though. 

 Cheers for suggesting it Penchum.


----------



## thadeus finn

I was wondering if anyone had heard anything from Lawrence regarding the batch that was supposed to come in early this week. I ordered from him last week, and he told me that he should get more in early this week, and ship soon thereafter. I sent him an email two days ago, and haven't heard from him, and was wondering if anyone else had any information. I need to head back to school soon, but it looks like I won't be getting it before then.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Quick question:

 It was suggested yesterday by penchum to replace the slee solo knob like i had done with the zero dac. It's something i have been thinking about for a while. The zero has been replaced with the chrome knob shown in the pic below. Do you think i should swap the solo to the same knob? *Yes* or *no*? I'm undecided. Its really not that important i guess, i just wouldn't mind some opinions. 

 Cheers






 I don't think the pics really do them knob any justice at all. It gets warped by the lens._

 

I like the new knob! One on each would really be attractive!!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok i'm starting to notice big changes in the op amps i'm using. The LT1364 sounds great, but, it's not very forgiving with poorly recorded songs or bad quality songs such as mp3 or other lower format compressed songs. This doesn't really bother me as i'm using lossless, but for those using it from a computer, it may effect the sound. 

 I do love the opa 627 and the Lt1364 set up though. 

 Cheers for suggesting it Penchum._

 

Thanks! So do I. I'm also discovering the changes depending on the source quality. The original Opamp sounds pretty darn good with MP3's at 320, where the better Opamps are not that forgiving. Lossless Wavs sound great with the OPA627 + LT1364 combo. I figure, we need to find about 2 more combo's that sound great, identify which types of music they work best with and get that posted. Then it will be time to enjoy the changes!


----------



## Penchum

Here is what I've tested so far: Note: "good" means only good. "great" means great. We recommend "great" for everyone.

 Dac / Amp :

 LT1057 + LT1469 DAC=good, phone=good

 LT1057 + LT1364 DAC=good, phone=good

 LT1057 + LT1361 DAC=good, phone=good

 LT1057 + LM4562 DAC=good, phone=good

 LT1361 + LT1469 DAC=good, phone=good

 LT1361 + LT1364 DAC=good, phone=great

 LT1361 + LT1057 DAC=good, phone=good

 LT1361 + LM4562 DAC=good, phone=good

 LT1364 + LT1469 DAC=great, phone=great

 LT1364 + LT1361 DAC=great, phone=great

 LT1364 + LT1057 DAC=great, phone=good

 LT1364 + LM4562 DAC=great, phone=great

 LT1469 + LT1364 DAC=good, phone =good

 LT1469 + LT1361 DAC=great, phone=great

 LT1469 + LT1057 DAC=great, phone=great

 LT1469 + LM4562 DAC=great, phone=great

 LM4562 + LT1469 DAC=good, phone=good

 LM4562 + LT1364 DAC=good, phone=good

 LM4562 + LT1361 DAC=good, phone=good

 LM4562 + LT1057 DAC=good, phone=good

 AD797 + LT1469 DAC=bright, phone=odd treble

 AD797 + LT1364 DAC=bright, phone=odd treble

 AD797 + LT1361 DAC=bright, phone=odd treble

 AD797 + LT1057 DAC=bright, phone=odd treble

 AD797 + LM4562 DAC=bright, phone=odd treble

 OPA2604 + LT1469 DAC=good, phone=good

 OPA2604 + LT1364 DAC=good, phone=good

 OPA2604 + LT1361 DAC=good, phone=good

 OPA2604 + LT1057 DAC=good, phone=good

 OPA627s + LT1469 DAC=great, phone=good

 OPA627s + LT1364 DAC=great, phone=great

 OPA627s + LT1361 DAC=great, phone=great

 OPA627s + LT1057 DAC=great, phone=good

 OPA627s + LM4562 DAC=great, phone=great

 LT1358 + LT1469 N/A

 LT1469 + LT1358 N/A

 LT1469 + OPA2132 N/A

 DY2000 + LT1469 N/A

 AD8599 + LT1361 N/A

 LT1028 + LT1361 N/A

 LT1028 + LT1358 N/A


 N/A means I'm missing part of the combo to test it, so someone else can take a crack at it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 If you do any of the N/A's or have an addition, PM it too me and I'll add it. THX,


----------



## spookygonk

Damn, that's comprehensive!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *spookygonk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Damn, that's comprehensive!_

 

Well, If you do this right, then it will be a good reference tool for anyone who follows. At least, that is the hope!


----------



## cafe zeenuts

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thadeus finn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was wondering if anyone had heard anything from Lawrence regarding the batch that was supposed to come in early this week. I ordered from him last week, and he told me that he should get more in early this week, and ship soon thereafter. I sent him an email two days ago, and haven't heard from him, and was wondering if anyone else had any information. I need to head back to school soon, but it looks like I won't be getting it before then._

 

I'm in the same boat as you, the wait is killing me!


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I like the new knob! One on each would really be attractive!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Yeh i think i prefer th new one too. I'm going to order another one. I like things to match. Ha ha. I want to build a valve kit and get that in a nice box to match. Then id be spoilt for choice with my headphones.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here is what I've tested so far:

 Dac / Amp :

 LT1358 + LT1469 N/A

 LT1057 + LT1469 DAC=good, AMP=good

 LT1361 + LT1469 DAC=good, AMP=good

 LT1364 + LT1469 DAC=good, AMP=good

 LT1469 + LT1358 N/A

 DY2000 + LT1469 N/A

 LT1469 + OPA2132 N/A

 AD8599 + LT1361 N/A

 LT1028 + LT1361 N/A

 LT1028 + LT1358 N/A

 LM4562 + LT1364 DAC=good, phone=good

 LM1361 + LT1364 DAC=good, phone=great

 LT1057 + LT1364 DAC=good, phone=good

 LT1469 + LT1364 DAC=good, phone =good

 AD797 + LT1469 DAC=bright, phone=odd treble

 AD797 + LT1361 DAC=bright, phone=odd treble

 OPA627s + LT1469 DAC=great, phone=good

 OPA627s + LT1364 DAC=great, phone=great

 OPA627s + LT1361 DAC=great, phone=great

 LT1469 + LT1361 DAC=great, phone=great

 OPA627s + LT1057 DAC=great, phone=good

 OPA627s + LM4562 DAC=great, phone=great

 LT1364 + LT1469 DAC=great-good, phone=great



 N/A means I'm missing part of the combo to test it, so someone else can take a crack at it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Wish i had that may op amps to test with! ha ha. Im awaiting mine to arrive. So far i have the opa 627 and Lt 1364, i agree that it sounds great! Definitely better than stock op amps. Its not so forgiving with all types of music though.
 Id like to hear more options before announcing my fav.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cafe zeenuts* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm in the same boat as you, the wait is killing me!_

 

I was in exactly the same position a few days ago. I too was panicing *a lot*, but it all came through fine. I wouldn't get to worried on the no response, i had same problem.


----------



## cafe zeenuts

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was in exactly the same position a few days ago. I too was panicing *a lot*, but it all came through fine. I wouldn't get to worried on the no response, i had same problem._

 

Yeah but at least yours is that you had email from Lawrence telling you that your ZERO has been shipped out and your tracking details etc...

 I dont mind the wait if the zero have been shipped out coz i know its on the way. But I'm still waiting on Lawrence's email on if, when, he is going to ship thw zero out.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cafe zeenuts* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah but at least yours is that you had email from Lawrence telling you that your ZERO has been shipped out and your tracking details etc...

 I dont mind the wait if the zero have been shipped out coz i know its on the way. But I'm still waiting on Lawrence's email on if, when, he is going to ship thw zero out._

 

No i had a wait of 8 days from the day i purchased the dac until the day it was shipped out. During them 8 days i heard nothing and it hadn't been shipped out. When it was eventually shipped i got a number for tracking. From that day i heard nothing of the dac until it arrived in England the day before it turned up on my doorstep. The whole process was a bit silent. Im pleased it got here. I ordered mine on 28th December it arrived Tuesday 15 January.


----------



## cafe zeenuts

oh ic, no worries!


----------



## Seba

I e-mailed to Lawrence using another e-mail account and using different name.

 I asked the price of the unit and I got reply with PP invoice in less than an hour.

 I'll probably send a third inquiry of my unit and then if I don't get reply I will cancel the deal


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cafe zeenuts* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_oh ic, no worries!_

 

Yeh i'm sure your order will be alright. I was ****ting it thinking where is it so i don't blame you for asking. Good luck with it!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seba* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I e-mailed to Lawrence using another e-mail account and using different name.

 I asked the price of the unit and I got reply with PP invoice in less than an hour.

 I'll probably send a third inquiry of my unit and then if I don't get reply I will cancel the deal 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Tell him plainly, that you want status or you will be cancelling the purchase. That should get him moving.


----------



## edguetzow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeh i think i prefer th new one too. I'm going to order another one. I like things to match. Ha ha. I want to build a valve kit and get that in a nice box to match. Then id be spoilt for choice with my headphones. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I really like the looks of the new knob and would definitely get one for both. Where are you getting it from? Is it the same place that Penchum had recommended in an earlier post?

 I would like to get one as well!


----------



## Penchum

On page 100, the Opamp listing is updated with all my Opamps.
 Check it out!


----------



## Fremen

I was looking for some sites dealing with op-amps and found this one: Op-Amp review page

 Very interesting... It's about modding the Chiarra Grand Op Amp

 => " ...Test Seven: Burr Brown OPA 627 BP on Browndog adaptor Price: £28 each (Total £56 for 2 singles) Browndog adaptor £5 Total: £61

 Two words sum this chip up........ "absolute class" This is the only single chip in the test (the rest all being duals) and it was necessary to fit two single channel 627's onto a single to dual Browndog adaptor which Adapts two single-channel DIP-8 op-amps to a dual DIP-8 pinout. These 2 single channel op amps absolutely trounced anything that had gone before them in this test..... the width of the soundstage, the clarity and the sheer presence make this my choice of op amp for use in the Chiarra without a shadow of a doubt. The sound is just so "clean", so "natural", so "musical" and so "detailed" with the 627's on board. I said the AD 823 was "as close to headphone heaven I have yet been" The Burr Brown 627 "is" headphone heaven....... absolute class act. 10 / 10"

 Sound familiar, doesn't it?


----------



## Fremen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here is what I've tested so far:

 Dac / Amp :

 LT1057 + LT1469 DAC=good, phone=good

 .......

 LT1028 + LT1361 N/A

 LT1028 + LT1358 N/A


 N/A means I'm missing part of the combo to test it, so someone else can take a crack at it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 If you do any of the N/A's or have an addition, PM it too me and I'll add it. THX,_

 

just one word: WOW!!!


----------



## thadeus finn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tell him plainly, that you want status or you will be cancelling the purchase. That should get him moving. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Not crazy about threatening him, just kind of distressing that he won't respond to these innocuous emails. Especially considering he is so willing to take new orders.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thadeus finn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not crazy about threatening him, just kind of distressing that he won't respond to these innocuous emails. Especially considering he is so willing to take new orders._

 

Well, I think he gets "trapped" while finishing up a batch of 50, and puts priority only on excepting new orders (for the next batch of 50), until he has time to go threw all the emails. It is something he hasn't learned to correct yet. This is the third time we have seen this, we know it is not him "dissing" anyone, it seems to be a "work habit". On the flip side, I would imagine preparing 50 for shipment is an enormous tasking for him.


----------



## charley phogg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is actually good you are keeping the Zero in the back of your mind. I don't know about the rest of these fellas, but when my babies arrived, I found myself looking to get satisfaction on a very tight budget. Those little ones sure can burn a budget quick!! Good luck on the little one!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Thanks man, and thanks for all the insight into all the various opamps that you, shopper and everyone else has provided, along with all the other useful information.


----------



## jordansugars

This thread has become truly enormous and I have no intention of reading it all - if the following information is common knowledge then I apologise.

 I ordered my Zero at least five weeks ago from the eBay seller, snow48_6, and it has not arrived yet. After sending him a fairly blunt email he replied thus:

 "Dear jordansugars,

 i'm very sorry.i will tell you the truth.the DAC is not mine,but my friend's.he use my ebay number to sell it.then he doesn't post it to you.but i don't know until now.so if you want it,i will post it to you today.if you don't want it ,i will payback to you,ok?


 - snow48_6"


----------



## wquiles

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here is what I've tested so far:

 Dac / Amp :

 (SNIP)

 N/A means I'm missing part of the combo to test it, so someone else can take a crack at it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 If you do any of the N/A's or have an addition, PM it too me and I'll add it. THX,_

 

Thanks much for the work/time in compiling this list!

 Will


----------



## Seba

I got a reply. Lawrence said that he received only half of the 50 units in time and the rest will come few days later. He said that my unit is on the later batch.

 So it's looking good now.


----------



## mADmAN

i just got my unit. ive taken tonnes of pix but i havent had a chance to listen to it yet due to the lack of optical output from my PC.

 can anybody give more reviews on the Zero? or at least links to reviews in this thread...

 ive tried going through page by page of this thread over the past few weeks but ive only managed to get up to page 52 so far and im exhausted!


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edguetzow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I really like the looks of the new knob and would definitely get one for both. Where are you getting it from? Is it the same place that Penchum had recommended in an earlier post?

 I would like to get one as well!_

 

Yeh it is, Parts conneXion. I really like the chrome one, they do others too. I should have ordered two when i got the other one. ah well.


----------



## fault151

I have just got some more op amps today so i'll have a go at playing about with them in the zero later on.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But maybe I'll do DY2000 and LT1469 first, since this one has much promise.


 Unfortunately my 2 DY2000 still haven't arrived; as for the Zero, I have it but the package has remained unopened for a few days due to me being too busy/concerned with other things. By this weekend I should make it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Which is best the dy2000 ceramic or metal can?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jordansugars* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This thread has become truly enormous and I have no intention of reading it all - if the following information is common knowledge then I apologise.

 I ordered my Zero at least five weeks ago from the eBay seller, snow48_6, and it has not arrived yet. After sending him a fairly blunt email he replied thus:

 "Dear jordansugars,

 i'm very sorry.i will tell you the truth.the DAC is not mine,but my friend's.he use my ebay number to sell it.then he doesn't post it to you.but i don't know until now.so if you want it,i will post it to you today.if you don't want it ,i will payback to you,ok?


 - snow48_6"_

 

That really freaks me out! Umm, get your money back quickly. Then purchase one from Lawrence. At least, we know that Lawrence will stand behind his offerings. So, I guess the new word is NO SNOW.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well they say that the metal can versions of opamps generally have a less laidback sound compared to their DIP counterparts, along with a little bit more detail.

 Personally for the Zero I'd go with the ceramic. Me, I ordered 2 of them so I can decide whether to use it in the Dac or in the Amp, i.e. DY2000 + LT1469 or the other way around. LT1469 + DY2000 is very tempting too, especially after Penchum's findings about the LT1469 used in the Dac.

 The LT1469, btw, is said to be as clear as the OPA627 but with more of a neutral sound to it. While the LT1364 is more of a "live" sound._

 

HI! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Agreed. One thing I wasn't considering before, and do now (for my stuff), is that the DAC output to an amp or tube amp, may benefit greatly by having a more "live" Opamp running. On several combinations, I listened to my Super-T and then changed to my MKIVse. The tube amp did it's magic better with the "live" sounding Opamp in the Zero. I guess a laid back sound, when tubed becomes restrictive in the end? Something like that. Anyway, I didn't use the tube amp in the comparisons for the chart. This way, the comparisons were to a decent amp with decent speakers. The clear winner on the chart has to be the LT1364. It worked way better than I had even guessed earlier on. It has real potential with the LT1469 as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can't wait to hear everyone's impressions of the DY2000 in combination to what we know so far! Should be a hoot!


----------



## wquiles

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That really freaks me out! Umm, get your money back quickly. Then purchase one from Lawrence. At least, we know that Lawrence will stand behind his offerings. So, I guess the new word is NO SNOW._

 

+1. After reading the whole thread, I would only buy these from Lawrence!

 Will


----------



## Penchum

Once we have some more input to the table, I'll copy it and add it to the back end of the review, then continue to update it as more info is sent to me. Does that sound ok to everyone? Thanks!


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Once we have some more input to the table, I'll copy it and add it to the back end of the review, then continue to update it as more info is sent to me. Does that sound ok to everyone? Thanks!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Sounds great. Try to write a few words on every combination if it's not too much work. Something like "neutral, very fast, very good bass impact" or "warm, slightly laid back treble, slightly loose bass" and so on. Will be much easier to pair the op-amps with different cans.

 Good work btw


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sounds great. Try to write a few words on every combination if it's not too much work. Something like "neutral, very fast, very good bass impact" or "warm, slightly laid back treble, slightly loose bass" and so on. Will be much easier to pair the op-amps with different cans.

 Good work btw
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ya, I was thinking about that. When I started working on the list, I thought to myself, "This will help folks to skip Opamps that will be disappointing and at least point them in the right direction." I'll have to give the extra narrative bit some more thought. For now though, anything that has "great" will not disappoint, so that is at least something!


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well they say that the metal can versions of opamps generally have a less laidback sound compared to their DIP counterparts, along with a little bit more detail.

 Personally for the Zero I'd go with the ceramic. Me, I ordered 2 of them so I can decide whether to use it in the Dac or in the Amp, i.e. DY2000 + LT1469 or the other way around. LT1469 + DY2000 is very tempting too, especially after Penchum's findings about the LT1469 used in the Dac.

 The LT1469, btw, is said to be as clear as the OPA627 but with more of a neutral sound to it. While the LT1364 is more of a "live" sound._

 

I'll just get the ceramic then. Wheres the best place to order them? I live in the uk. Cheers.


----------



## davve

no replies on email yet, are we scamed?


----------



## fault151

Which is supposed to be the best op amp out of the two, the LT1361 OR the LT 1364? I have tried both with the opa 627 and i think i prefer the 627 with the 1361.

 Can anyone suggest an op amp to go with the 627 that has wide soundstage characteristics please.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_no replies on email yet, are we scamed? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








_

 

Did you pay via paypal or ebay? If so you should be ok to get your money back at least.


----------



## Andreas_D

He replayed to me today and said that due to amount of order he couldn't reply to all. He will send an email to each when the parcel will be shipped. He also had a problem with transportation and only half of the stock arrived last days. The other half will arrive very soon ready to be shipped. That was Lawrence wrote to me today. I also was worried about not replying, but now I'm more patient.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There's nothing wrong with preferring the LT1361! Actually they're nearly the same thing; the LT1364 is even faster (but we're talking 800 vs. 1000V/us fast 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) thus slightly livelier. For a less bright version belonging to the same series, you could try the LT1358 (600V/us). 

 In any event, I'd recommend the 1361 or 1358 in the amp, rather than the 1364 which is better for the Dac.

 From a numerology perspective the LT1358 + LT1469 combination has much promise. Someone should try it to prove I'm right 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe myself.

 Btw, why exactly do you prefer the LT1361 in the amp with the OPA627 in the DAC?_

 

I think it just sounded more open with more weight to the music, it could have been the music though. I have tried a few variations but i love the opa 627 in the dac. So would you say the 627 + LT1361 is the better set up? 
 Lawrence suggested for me to put two more 627's in the headphone and the dac. Apparently he thinks they will fit, its a tight squeeze in the headphone. Id have to bend some resistors down. What u think?


----------



## dsmudger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeh i didn't have to pay tax either._

 

...me either FWIW


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yup I also recall the LT1361 having more sense of weight. 

 Indeed OPA627 and LT1361 should sound great! I highly doubt you would get anything better with 4 more OPA627 in the amp. The LT1361 is a clearer sounding opamp than the OPA627, though the 627 has great naturalness and sense of body. Tonality wise, they should complement each other perfectly.



 Btw, if you're feeding your Solo with the Zero, I'm not surprised that you prefer the OPA627. The Solo has the AD823 inside which is 'electrostaticy' a little like the LTs, so it could be too much 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 edit- at this point I'm thinking of trying LT1364 + LT1361. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeah i have the OPA627 in the dac and it does sound pretty nice with the solo. The LT1361 is in the headphone section of the zero at the minute. I have been doing most of the listening from the zero headphone amp and just using the solo to compare to. 

 I do really like the 627 and 1361. I must try a few more though. 

 Do you think it would be a good idea to try a few i'm my solo too?


----------



## dsmudger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well they say that the metal can versions of opamps generally have a less laidback sound compared to their DIP counterparts, along with a little bit more detail.

 Personally for the Zero I'd go with the ceramic. Me, I ordered 2 of them so I can decide whether to use it in the Dac or in the Amp, i.e. DY2000 + LT1469 or the other way around. LT1469 + DY2000 is very tempting too, especially after Penchum's findings about the LT1469 used in the Dac.

 The LT1469, btw, is said to be as clear as the OPA627 but with more of a neutral sound to it. While the LT1364 is more of a "live" sound._

 

Hmm can anyone point me to some info on how to install a metal can in a two-row pin socket? I've got a couple of metal can LME49720s I haven't tried yet


----------



## dsmudger

Incidentally - I've done some more swapping - here are the results:

 Starting point was the last combo I was fairly happy with - *DAC board: LM4562, Headamp: LME49720*


> Swapped to *DY2000 in the DAC board*: smoother, but didn't like it overall (less detail, lack of pace..)
> 
> Swapped to *LT1364 in the Dac board*: "hmm maybe...", without being able to compare back-to-back wasn't sure, but thought it sounded a bit dull especially in the mids..
> 
> ...


So for anyone interested... out of the op-amps I have to play with, I would say DAC board: LM4562, Headamp: LME49720 is _definitely_ the best combo so far for my RS1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sounds almost better than the Total Bithead now - I would say the Zero's noticeably more detailed, but still loses on warmth and/or 'musicality': changed music to some progressive trance type stuff - say the track by Vibrasphere - Sweet September (Perfect Stranger Remix) - the Bithead has this bubbling rumbling-tumbling-bass thing going on, which the Zero kind of lacks at the moment (though as I say it sort of/_almost_ makes up for it by having slightly more detail) - that could well change with burn-in (which if I'm honest I don't _really_ believe in until I hear it for myself 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), though I'm pretty keen to try some other op-amps - maybe even those they use in the Bithead (think they're those famous Burr Brown 627s!) and I really need to get my hands on those 797s that got lost in the post 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For sure! I'd try the LME49720 instantly. Also the LT1361 possibly, but I'm not entirely sure that the Solo accepts bipolar opamp with its input bias current level. If the Solo can accept the NE5532, then it surely accepts the LT1361 too.

 In any event, the LT1361 is like a direct upgrade on the AD823._

 

Im not sure if it is or not? Will it damage the amp if i try one out that it doesn't accept? I haven't got any of the LME49720. I might get hold of some. If i put the LT1361 in the solo will it be ok? 

 Also, i think i have a damaged LT1028 when i put it in the headphone amp i got an almighty crack as i put the headphones in. There was not light on in the headphone amp either. It was definitely in properly, it just didn't work. Any ideas?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Im not sure if it is or not? Will it damage the amp if i try one out that it doesn't accept? I haven't got any of the LME49720. I might get hold of some. If i put the LT1361 in the solo will it be ok? 

 Also, i think i have a damaged LT1028 when i put it in the headphone amp i got an almighty crack as i put the headphones in. There was not light on in the headphone amp either. It was definitely in properly, it just didn't work. Any ideas?_

 

It sounds like you got a bad chip. I does happen. On a side note, and everyone should be using universal precautions with Opamps:

 Unplug the DAC before entering the insides. Ground yourself to the DAC chassis before touching the Opamps. If you can't get the Opamp out without touching other components, wait 10 minutes to let any capacitance drain down before attempting to change the Opamp. The grounding to chassis issue is the MOST important. Slight static charges can kill chips without your knowledge. It sucks too!!


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It sounds like you got a bad chip. I does happen. On a side note, and everyone should be using universal precautions with Opamps:

 Unplug the DAC before entering the insides. Ground yourself to the DAC chassis before touching the Opamps. If you can't get the Opamp out without touching other components, wait 10 minutes to let any capacitance drain down before attempting to change the Opamp. The grounding to chassis issue is the MOST important. Slight static charges can kill chips without your knowledge. It sucks too!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeh it's definitely faulty, i tried all the other and they are fine. I'll try get some more.


----------



## dsmudger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It sounds like you got a bad chip. I does happen. On a side note, and everyone should be using universal precautions with Opamps:

 Unplug the DAC before entering the insides. Ground yourself to the DAC chassis before touching the Opamps. If you can't get the Opamp out without touching other components, wait 10 minutes to let any capacitance drain down before attempting to change the Opamp. The grounding to chassis issue is the MOST important. Slight static charges can kill chips without your knowledge. It sucks too!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

LT1028 in the headamp? Penchum are you sure? i.e. isn't this the same mistake I made the other day? - seem to remember it was you (or maybe not - can't be fussed looking back through the thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) who told me they're singles and so won't work, as somewhat surprisingly the headamp takes two duals? (don't think we've managed to establish the exact reason for this)

 (or fault151: do you mean you had four of them on two browndogs running with the top open?)


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dsmudger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Incidentally - I've done some more swapping - here are the results:

 Starting point was the last combo I was fairly happy with - *DAC board: LM4562, Headamp: LME49720*



			Swapped to *DY2000 in the DAC board*: smoother, but didn't like it overall (less detail, lack of pace..)

 Swapped to *LT1364 in the Dac board*: "hmm maybe...", without being able to compare back-to-back wasn't sure, but thought it sounded a bit dull especially in the mids..

 Confirmed when I swapped *back to the starting configuration*: "wow huge improvement!"

 Swapped the two over, i.e. *LME49720 in the DAC, LM4562 in the headamp*: sounded very similar to the other way round/couldn't really say if there was any difference to be honest, but somehow got the impression I liked it back the other way a little more, not really sure why... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Click to expand...

So for anyone interested... out of the op-amps I have to play with, I would say DAC board: LM4562, Headamp: LME49720 is definitely the best combo so far for my RS1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sounds almost better than the Total Bithead now - I would say the Zero's noticeably more detailed, but still loses on warmth and/or 'musicality': changed music to some progressive trance type stuff - say the track by Vibrasphere - Sweet September (Perfect Stranger Remix) - the Bithead has this bubbling rumbling-tumbling-bass thing going on, which the Zero kind of lacks at the moment (though as I say it sort of/almost makes up for it by having slightly more detail) - that could well change with burn-in (which if I'm honest I don't really believe in until I hear it for myself 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), though I'm pretty keen to try some other op-amps - maybe even those they use in the Bithead (think they're those famous Burr Brown 627s!) and I really need to get my hands on those 797s that got lost in the post 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)_

 

I forgot, what is your DAC feeding?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dsmudger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LT1028 in the headamp? Penchum are you sure? i.e. isn't this the same mistake I made the other day? - seem to remember it was you (or maybe not - can't be fussed looking back through the thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) who told me they're singles and so won't work, as somewhat surprisingly the headamp takes two duals? (don't think we've managed to establish the exact reason for this)

 (or fault151: do you mean you had four of them on two browndogs running with the top open?)_

 

Well, now I'm confused. Was it the LT1028 before? I just know that if he didn't have a lit LED on the headboard, it is most likely dead. This isn't what happened to you was it?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mapstec* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, the LT1028 is a single opamp and so you need the two you have on an adapter to replace any one of the opamps used in the zero.
 So you would need 4 and two adapters for the headphone amp.


 On a different note, I just switched the Zero to pure DAC duty and right now I am seriously underwhelmed!!

 Strange ....

 Please bear in mind, unit is just two hours running...

 I will investigate further and keep you posted._

 

I did a search and this is what I found. I'm looking the number up as we speak.


----------



## arteom

hey guys, well after about ~ 150 hours I think I may be ready to roll opamps. I have never done that before, so any tips on how to do so properly (what tools to use, etc) are welcome. 

 also, if any would recommend what opamps to get it would be much appreciated. 

 I'm looking for something that will add a bit of that musical quality, really liquidy, larger soundstage, better/no-sacrifice in detail, something that doesn't lack in adding weigh/body to the sound. 

 any help is much appreciated!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dsmudger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LT1028 in the headamp? Penchum are you sure? i.e. isn't this the same mistake I made the other day? - seem to remember it was you (or maybe not - can't be fussed looking back through the thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) who told me they're singles and so won't work, as somewhat surprisingly the headamp takes two duals? (don't think we've managed to establish the exact reason for this)

 (or fault151: do you mean you had four of them on two browndogs running with the top open?)_

 

dsmudger, you are correct. This is a single. Must have two on a brown dog to use anywhere in the Zero. Sorry, I just didn't compute the number when I saw it! My bad...


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm, replacing the OPA2604 for the LT1361 might do it for you._

 

Sure would be inexpensive.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Btw, Penchum, what was that made you label the LT1361 "good" (for the Dac) like the OPA2604, & the LT1364 "great" ? The LT1361 should be a pretty significant upgrade over the OPA2604. Also, what did you like better about the LT1364?_

 

This is where it got a little strange for me. the LT1361 in the DAC feeding the Super-T, the highs lost their definition. It held true no matter what I did, so I kept that rating. The LT1364 was just "everything" to the music. Clean clear highs, great mids, bass to die for. Like I said earlier, this was a unexpected surprise!

 This brings me to another difficulty with having "any" kind of a rating system. If you were standing here with me, and hooked my Zero up to some amp you own, the results may be totally different. Headphone amps with Opamps in them pose a "challenge" all their own for this kind of rating system. I am totally willing to change my findings based upon others' testing. I have no ego to worry about when it comes to that table of Opamps. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What do you think???


----------



## dsmudger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I forgot, what is your DAC feeding?_

 

Oh sure - my setup: 

 17" Intel iMac 





> > _-USB->_ Creative Labs Sound Blaster model: SB0270 _-optical->_ Zero
> > _-USB->_ Headroom Total Bithead
> 
> 
> ...


(got some Senn HD580 and Shure e5c somewhere around the place as well/haven't tried 'em yet..)

 (going to take the SB out of the loop when I get a chance to go get the cable that goes from the Mac's 3.5mm combined analogue headphone jack+optical out to the Zero's connector - never bothered to look round the back to see how the optical out worked until I was unpacking the Zero 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dsmudger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh sure - my setup: 

 17" Intel iMac 









-USB-> Creative Labs Sound Blaster model: SB0270 -optical-> Zero
-USB-> Headroom Total Bithead
		
Click to expand...








-> Grado RS1
		
Click to expand...



Click to expand...



Click to expand...

(got some Senn HD580 and Shure e5c somewhere around the place as well/haven't tried 'em yet..)

 (going to take the SB out of the loop when I get a chance to go get the cable that goes from the Mac's 3.5mm combined analogue headphone jack+optical out to the Zero's connector - never bothered to look round the back to see how the optical out worked until I was unpacking the Zero 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)_

 

Great! You should have those HD-580s out to help you determine which combination you like, especially when the "reverse" can sometimes play tricks on you. The HD-580s are stable phones, so when using the others and you run into a situation where: "I wonder if the highs are better this way round" happens, you can swap headphones to make the determination. Its an idea anyway.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, now I'm confused. Was it the LT1028 before? I just know that if he didn't have a lit LED on the headboard, it is most likely dead. This isn't what happened to you was it? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Right so that explains why it dint work for me then? Because it's a single op amp. I thought i had screwed up my zero for a minute when i heard the crack/pop.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The LT1028 is single, the Solo requires dual opamps..

 And btw, two LT1028 on an adapter would be another excellent upgrade, one that should make the Solo sound tubey.

 The LT1361 won't do any damage to the amp. You should just measure the DC offset voltage on the outputs of the amp to make sure that everything's working fine. Checking that there aren't any 'bumps' in your headphones at power on & off is a way to have a first idea if there is DC on the outputs or not.


 edit- think of it, I remember that when I saw the innards I thought that seemingly the Solo had DC blocking capacitors on the outputs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I guess i could take the two opa 627's of the adaptor and replace them with the LT1028 and put them in the solo to try. That would be ok wouldn't it?


----------



## dsmudger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The LT1028 is single, the Solo requires dual opamps..

 And btw, two LT1028 on an adapter would be another excellent upgrade, one that should make the Solo sound tubey.

 The LT1361 won't do any damage to the amp. You should just measure the DC offset voltage on the outputs of the amp to make sure that everything's working fine. Checking that there aren't any 'bumps' in your headphones at power on & off is a way to have a first idea if there is DC on the outputs or not.


 edit- think of it, I remember that when I saw the innards I thought that seemingly the Solo had DC blocking capacitors on the outputs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hmm could you/anyone fill me in a bit on that DC offset thing? On mine I get two distinct pops at power on, the second one in time with the LED at the back of the DAC board coming on+click of the relay (pops aren't especially loud/not the full volume of the music when I switch to headphone and press play..) - is this anything to worry about/bad for my headphones?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Right so that explains why it dint work for me then? Because it's a single op amp. I thought i had screwed up my zero for a minute when i heard the crack/pop._

 

Naw, you should be ok. Unless you see a burn spot on the chip, then I'd toss it. Your Zero is pretty tough. Have you tried a different set you know works ok?


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dsmudger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm could you/anyone fill me in a bit on that DC offset thing? On mine I get two distinct pops at power on, the second one in time with the LED at the back of the DAC board coming on+click of the relay (pops aren't especially loud/not the full volume of the music when I switch to headphone and press play..) - is this anything to worry about/bad for my headphones?_

 

I noticed mine did this with some op amps and not others.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Naw, you should be ok. Unless you see a burn spot on the chip, then I'd toss it. Your Zero is pretty tough. Have you tried a different set you know works ok?_

 

Yeh i just thought it must be either a fault or the wrong one for the zero headphone section. It's fine anyway, i tried another set up to make sure.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dsmudger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm could you/anyone fill me in a bit on that DC offset thing? On mine I get two distinct pops at power on, the second one in time with the LED at the back of the DAC board coming on+click of the relay (pops aren't especially loud/not the full volume of the music when I switch to headphone and press play..) - is this anything to worry about/bad for my headphones?_

 

That is normal. The default is to always turn the volume down all the way, plug in the headphones and run up the volume. No biggie though. I do it out of habit, but I've also forgotten and had it pop without problems.


----------



## dsmudger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Right so that explains why it dint work for me then? Because it's a single op amp. I thought i had screwed up my zero for a minute when i heard the crack/pop._

 

Sounds like what happened to me with the same op-amps (I think maybe the green LED came on but much dimmer than usual as well, also got a bit of sound out of one channel/totally silent the other side, but it didn't go louder/quieter when turning the volume control - was pretty worried I'd broken it too


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dsmudger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sounds like what happened to me with the same op-amps (I think maybe the green LED came on but much dimmer than usual as well, also got a bit of sound out of one channel/totally silent the other side, but it didn't go louder/quieter when turning the volume control - was pretty worried I'd broken it too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I got full sound out the right channel, but left was dead. I just remember it making an awful popping sound very loud when plugging in my headphones. I'm keen to try it on the browndog adaptors though. I may try it in the Dac section.


----------



## dsmudger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That is normal. The default is to always turn the volume down all the way, plug in the headphones and run up the volume. No biggie though. I do it out of habit, but I've also forgotten and had it pop without problems. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Right, thanks for the tip/didn't know to do that, but guess it sounds pretty obvious now I've been told 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I still get the first of the two pops with the volume all the way down though (don't get the one from the relay any more) - that ok too?


----------



## Penchum

I had to laugh at myself last night. I spent all that time swapping those Opamps and collecting the data and when I was done, I put the LT1364 in the DAC and the LT1469s in the headboard, gave a quick listen...great! Screwed it back together and put away everything. Then, it dawned on me. I have the 2nd Zero to configure for my Vintage Pioneer stuff!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Arrguh! Back out with everything, took the lid off, looked at the Opamps I had left and realized that I had used some in the 1st Zero. I had to go look at the table to remember what combinations I could make with what Opamps I had left!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Silly me! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I decided to put the one remaining LT1364 in the DAC, and the LT1361s in the headboard. A quick listen...Great! Now everything is in place and I'm waiting on my new Optical cables to come in.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dsmudger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Right, thanks for the tip/didn't know to do that, but guess it sounds pretty obvious now I've been told 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I still get the first of the two pops with the volume all the way down though (don't get the one from the relay any more) - that ok too?_

 

Are the pops you are talking about coming out of the phones, or in the open air from the Zero?


----------



## dsmudger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are the pops you are talking about coming out of the phones, or in the open air from the Zero?_

 

err.. well, yeah, I meant the phones (oh-oh... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) - both sides, medium volume/not especially loud


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dsmudger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_err.. well, yeah, I meant the phones (oh-oh... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) - both sides, medium volume/not especially loud_

 

No problems. I get two as well. Everything is fine. Breathe, Breathe, that's better.


----------



## dsmudger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No problems. I get two as well. Everything is fine. Breathe, Breathe, that's better. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

hehe good-good.. was thinking plugging/unplugging the phones would've damaged the connector before long 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So what's the DC offset thing about then? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Is it related to that thing someone mentioned in this thread about some op-amps not being "unity gain stable"?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arteom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey guys, well after about ~ 150 hours I think I may be ready to roll opamps. I have never done that before, so any tips on how to do so properly (what tools to use, etc) are welcome. 

 also, if any would recommend what opamps to get it would be much appreciated. 

 I'm looking for something that will add a bit of that musical quality, really liquidy, larger soundstage, better/no-sacrifice in detail, something that doesn't lack in adding weigh/body to the sound. 

 any help is much appreciated!_

 

Did you see the list on page 100 yet? It is a good starting place. There are going to be variables between different types of equipment used and variables due to musical preferences, so I made that list to "point" people in the right direction. Anything "great" is NOT going to disappoint in most cases.
 I really liked the OPA627s on adapter in the mainboard DAC, and the LT1364s in the headboard amp. I also really liked the LT1364 in the DAC and the LT1469s in the headboard. Anyway, you have lots of options and already, everyone is posting what they have found out too.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yup that should work. I envy your Solo._

 

Ha ha, cheers. Why don't you get one?


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_lack of dinero 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It was the first Headphone amp i bought. I went round to listen to it at Grahams house with his set up and was told the history of the amp. I was very interested but i was so desperate to get home and have a listen! ha ha.


----------



## fault151

Oh one thing i have noticed and i'm sure it's not that obvious to others, i have been using my mac to play lossless songs through to my zero and the sound is no where near as good as my cd player via the digital out in to my zero. Don't get me wrong the sound drastically improves my music of my mac, but i think the actual CD sounds that bit better. 

 Anyone else notice this?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My only concern is - with the LT1364 and the LT1469, does the sound have the same sense of body as with the OPA627 in? (with the HD650)

 If yes, I shall go straight with the two LTs._

 

It may not have been as "warm" as the OPA627s, but it wasn't lacking anything either. I actually liked the bass in the headphones too. I'd say that if a person hasn't paid for the OPA627s + adapter yet, they should try a couple of combos first. They may save some bucks that way. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The LIST question:
 Part of the difficulty in perception also has to do with my small rig. The Super-T is a true T-amp, and it articulates EVERYTHING. Other amps do or don't depending on design and Opamps on board or not and other factors.
 Maybe I should change the "verbiage" in the list to "N/R" not recommended and "R" recommended? I'm open to ideas for sure!


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now that is going directly to the source!_

 

Yeh i heard lot's of good things about his gear so i thought why not and the fact he lives down the road from me was a shock. It was really nice to let me go round and intrude and interfere on his work.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hope it doesn't mean you did some damage to his laboratory or his house. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Nah i was just having a good look around. He's extremely passionate about his work and as a newbie in decent audio gear he was very helpful and honest with the questions i asked and he didn't try rush me in to buying.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I mean - are vocals as "full" with the LT1364+LT1469 as they're (I guess, knowing the chips) with the OPA627+LT1364 ?_

 

Seemed to be. I'll go take another listen just to make sure. I've been sitting here listening to my MKV with HD-580s. I'm so in love with this amp!


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Never mind, just kidding. It must have been a pleasant experience - I'm envious x2._

 

ha ha. cheers. 

 Quick question: Do you think the zero dac will out perform the dac in a Marantz cd player? I know it will depend on the model of the marantz cd player, i just wondered?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks! Oh and I envy your MKV too._

 

Thanks! Everytime I listen too it, I have to manually wipe the smile off my face. It just sounds so "right" for a Solid State amp. I'll go switch that stuff now and take a listen.


----------



## fault151

Where can i get a decent optical cable and a coax for a reasonable price? Anyone know?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My only concern is - with the LT1364 and the LT1469, does the sound have the same sense of body as with the OPA627 in? (with the HD650)

 If yes, I shall go straight with the two LTs._

 

Ok, the LT1364 in DAC, LT1469s in the headamp. This combo is very good, but I just found my hand written note on the OPA627s in DAC and LT1364 or LT1649 in headamp, and I scribbled "these are best" next too it. So, if you have the OPA627s, go for it!! Just don't solder anything.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where can i get a decent optical cable and a coax for a reasonable price? Anyone know?_

 

I ordered these "glass" optical cables a few days ago. They were recommended by a fellow HeadFi'er who's opinion on such things I take without question. Take a look: eBay Store - Unique Products Online: GLASS Toslink Cables: 6' 6 ft GLASS TOSLINK DIGITAL OPTICAL CABLE - Premium

 Not too bad a price!!


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered these "glass" optical cables a few days ago. They were recommended by a fellow HeadFi'er who's opinion on such things I take without question. Take a look: eBay Store - Unique Products Online: GLASS Toslink Cables: 6' 6 ft GLASS TOSLINK DIGITAL OPTICAL CABLE - Premium

 Not too bad a price!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ok cheers i'll take a look.


----------



## jordansugars

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That really freaks me out! Umm, get your money back quickly. Then purchase one from Lawrence. At least, we know that Lawrence will stand behind his offerings. So, I guess the new word is NO SNOW._

 

Get this - after insisting in no uncertain terms that he refund me in full, this snow guy responds:

 "Dear jordansugars,

 i have post another one and you will receive it in 5days.hopefully you could cancel the paypal payback requirement.thank you very much,the dac is very good.you will be satified with it.

 - snow48_6"

 This guy is getting a big fat red neg from me.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Seemed to be. I'll go take another listen just to make sure. I've been sitting here listening to my MKV with HD-580s. I'm so in love with this amp! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Penchum: this MKV you keep mentioning, is it a headphone amp? You got a link for me to look at it?

 Also i don't know if you saw earlier but i mentioned will a zero dac out perform a cd player dac in something like a marantz?


 cheers.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jordansugars* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Get this - after insisting in no uncertain terms that he refund me in full, this snow guy responds:

 "Dear jordansugars,

 i have post another one and you will receive it in 5days.hopefully you could cancel the paypal payback requirement.thank you very much,the dac is very good.you will be satified with it.

 - snow48_6"

 This guy is getting a big fat red neg from me._

 

I think he is taking the piss! Why couldn't he have just sent it out in the first place???


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Penchum: this MKV you keep mentioning, is it a headphone amp? You got a link for me to look at it?

 Also i don't know if you saw earlier but i mentioned will a zero dac out perform a cd player dac in something like a marantz?


 cheers._

 

The MKV: Viewing a thread - Little Dot MK V Dual-Mono Headphone Amplifier!





 Yes, I believe the Zero will beat most built-ins.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jordansugars* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Get this - after insisting in no uncertain terms that he refund me in full, this snow guy responds:

 "Dear jordansugars,

 i have post another one and you will receive it in 5days.hopefully you could cancel the paypal payback requirement.thank you very much,the dac is very good.you will be satified with it.

 - snow48_6"

 This guy is getting a big fat red neg from me._

 

So, he (or his friend) has your money, and instead of him waiting for you to answer, he mailed one out to you? NO SNOW!!!! Well, I hope it arrives in top notch shape and there are nothing to worry about. Pretty sloppy selling I think!


----------



## edguetzow

Ok, so I have been following along and want to roll some amps!

 In reference to the LT1364, I checked out the Linear Tech site and found about 5 model #s for this chip. I signed up and requested 2 samples of the chip #LT1364CS8 - not lead free and non "tape and reel". Is this ok? I have received an email confirmation that I should get the sample in about a week.

 I would like to try this and the OPA627 in the DAC. Where is the best place to get the OPA627 to try in the DAC? I can't seem to find a reference site in the thread!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So far I have been very happy with the stock amps and if these 2 are such a good improvement I just might die and go to heaven!!!!!!!!


----------



## dantztiludrop

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jordansugars* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered my Zero at least five weeks ago from the eBay seller, snow48_6, and it has not arrived yet. After sending him a fairly blunt email he replied thus:

 "Dear jordansugars,

 i'm very sorry.i will tell you the truth.the DAC is not mine,but my friend's.he use my ebay number to sell it.then he doesn't post it to you.but i don't know until now.so if you want it,i will post it to you today.if you don't want it ,i will payback to you,ok?


 - snow48_6"_

 

Yikes! Now I know why I follow some threads so closely. 

 I've emailed this seller 2 times in the past day & he actually responded to both of them, leading me to believe that maybe he is on the up & up. I was so close to pulling the trigger that I could taste it. I'm sorry to hear about your experience so far, jordansugars, & I hope everything turns out just fine...after all the headaches pass. Thank you for communicating this info on to the rest of us because you may have prevented more than just me from making a big mistake.

 That's one of the things that make this community so great....for Jordan's troubles I think a bunch of us head-fiers should go to Hong Kong & beat this guy up!


----------



## mapstec

I have just tried the second pair of single opamp LTs in the Dac.

 The LT1028 has an unbelievable high background noise!
 The LT1115 has no background noise

 but both set of chips get so hot you can not touch them anymore!

 I do not think they are suitable for the DAC.

 I have popped in a pair of AD797 and they heat up as well, not sure what the reason is.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I do surely hope it sounds better than the (basic version) CD6000 I had, because I didn't like it at all - so much better is my Cambridge Audio D300SE, even if I've tweaked it. If it sounds better than the tweaked Cambridge Audio (& it has a very good integrated headphone amp, which I need), I will be in heaven 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Let's hope so ey! The reason i asked is my friend wants me to bring it round an listen to it and compare it to his set up he already has. In particular the cd players internal dac. 

 Oh is there anything else we can easily upgrade on the zero dac or would you say it's about as much you can do changing op amps?

 Cheers


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For what I understand looking at the various pics (since mine momentarily is still as the postman delivered it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) everything looks pretty well optimised as it is - especially the electrolytic caps look good both in size & quality; save, if you will, for those two dark-green caps near the opamp socket. Those could be worth changing for something with polystyrene of mica dielectric. 

 Even my Cambridge Audio uses a couple of polystyrene caps in the same position in its output stage. However, I'd first want to hear how good the Zero sounds "as is" to decide if this could be worth the risk & the hassle or not._

 

So has yours just arrived then today?


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So...these are the LT chips one can safely use in the DAC:

 LT1469 (or two LT1468), LT1364 (or two LT1363), LT1361 (or two LT1360), LT1057, LT1358.


 I'm still puzzled at the LT1361 not behaving as expected in the DAC, according to Penchum. I'm really inclined to try it anyway, since I've always loved it, & sometimes thought it was better than the LT1364 due to having slightly more body as fault151 said?_

 

I put it in the headphone section with my 627 in the dac. Out of all the op amps i have, it was between the 1361 and the 1364 as the best sound in my opinion. I went with the 1361.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No it's almost a week that it's been waiting upon a shelf, still packed. Sorry. As I said before, I hope I manage to try it by the weekend. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Oh rite. i couldn't resist opening it and having a listen, even just to get it burned in a bit. I think this was because at one point i didn't think it would arrive so when it did i thought right this thing best be worth the fuss!


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you perceive a lack of treble detail with the LT1361 in the amp, as compared to the LT1364? I don't remember this personally.

 Btw have you tried the LT1469 too?_

 

No not really. I was listening to Marcus Miller playing slap bass so it probably wasn't the best test for treble. His bass would make even the most mellow sounding op amp sound bright. I really like the sound of the 1364 and i think personally it's pretty close between the two.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Btw, I think it was you who asked about a coaxial digital cable before?


 I have ordered one with BNC-RCA connectors using the Belden 1694 cable on Blue Jeans Cable UK--Quality Cables at Reasonable Prices_

 

cheers, how much did it come to?


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_£12.70 (0,5m long)_

 

Thats not too bad then, cheers.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also,

 I have just ordered from National two LME49710 and two LME49720, all in the TO99 "metal can" package.

 I have sockets to solder the duals to, and twin-DIP Browndog adapters to solder the singles on. Looks promising 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ok now I'm done with opamp samples, both free and at charge 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Can you point out to me how you distinguish between what is a dual amp or single amp by looking on the net? Is there a clue in the title or does it simply just say it next to the description. I have only tested recommended op amps by member on here for the zero. 

 Cheers.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But, you did say that the LT1364 was the clear winner for the DAC position. 

 I think that the LT1364 has better midrange tonality and better bass articulation than the OPA627, whereas the OPA is a little bit thicker (which I like). I'd want to have the two combined into one!

 Maybe the OPA827...

 And now I want to try the AD797 as well._

 

Yes, I said that. Look at the chart. It worked great in the DAC with many others in the headboard. It was the surprise I wasn't expecting. My note could have been addressing the 627 in DAC working with the Super-T or 627 in DAC above all others. So, if you have the 627's, give 'em a spin and see how it sounds with your rig. It might be surprising! Ow, and you are going to not like the AD797s in the DAC. It does the weirdest thing to highs I've ever heard. I can't even describe it. Hey, I thought you said the DY2000 would be the sweet spot in the DAC?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Unfortunally mine haven't arrived (not even this morning) and I'm starting to despair. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So I have those LME's on order, just in case 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 DY2000 + LT1469 or LME49720 may well be a sweet spot, indeed. Also LT1469 or LME49720 + DY2000, though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ow, so you think they'll respond well swapped too. Hummm. Do you still have your 627's?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This, together with the warming up of the chips, might be a sign that they're oscillating._

 

Damn, that might be it. Like an uncontrolled oscillation, moving faster, then slower depending on the notes being played. It was almost spooky. It didn't take me but a few seconds to power down and pull 'em.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sure; I guess I'll have to get them ready for use, soldered on a browndog (I have four of them and as many as 8 twin-DIP browndogs, so).


 The LT1469 should be a clearer sounding opamp than the DY2000, but possibly with less 'character'. So it depends on what you want in the line out._

 

When you get yours out of the box, you should try the 627s in the DAC and the 1469s in the headboard. This may be the "middle ground" for the headamp, but warmer, smoother in the DAC. My preference for this situation was the 1364s in the headboard, but all three: 1361,1364,1469 all sounded nice with the 627s in the DAC.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ My preference for this situation was the 1364s in the headboard, but all three: 1361,1364,1469 all sounded nice with the 627s in the DAC. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I agree with that too!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree with that too!_

 

The true test of the OPA627s in the DAC for me, will be to hook up the Zero to my Pioneer SPEC1 pre-amp and give her a listen. I'm really hoping it will not be too much warmth. Those high-end solid state goods from the late 70s had a great sound signature and I'm hoping I don't have to go with a brighter Opamp when feeding them.


----------



## mapstec

Penchum,

 since this is your thread, can you edit your first post and include your list from page #100 and also include the warning that the non-unity gain stable opamps can not be used in the DAC section (LT1028, LT1115, AD797)?

 That would make things a lot easier on first time readers.

 Thanks

 btw: Opa627x2 on adapter in DAC and LM4562 is a very, very nice combination!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes ok but, say, OPA627 + LT1469 would lack the "3" that is so crucial a number fo me sonically (I'm in love with this number 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ).


 Penchum, another question (sorry!) - what was that made you call the LT1469 great in the DAC, while you found the LM4562 only good? Tonality, dynamics, what?

 I ask between I'd really want to use one between the metal LME49720 (close to the 4562) and the LT1469 (or maybe two 1468) for the DAC. I don't think I want too much wamth there, while I'd want 'tubey warmth' in the headphone amp (so there the DY2000 if they ever come should fit me)._

 

The LM4562 was just too bright. I couldn't get the others to pair up with it well for the headphone amp. The 1469 was way better at this. I see where you're going with this...I'd try the 1469 in the DAC, and the DY2000s in the headboard and see how it sounds. I'd almost bet you will get the sound you are looking for.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mapstec* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Penchum,

 since this is your thread, can you edit your first post and include your list from page #100 and also include the warning that the non-unity gain stable opamps can not be used in the DAC section (LT1028, LT1115, AD797)?

 That would make things a lot easier on first time readers.

 Thanks

 btw: Opa627x2 on adapter in DAC and LM4562 is a very, very nice combination!_

 

You bet! That was in the plan, so to speak, I just hadn't got there yet.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I agree about the 627s in the DAC and LM4562s in the headboard. It just seems to keep the 4562's in check and not as bright as we know they are!


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The true test of the OPA627s in the DAC for me, will be to hook up the Zero to my Pioneer SPEC1 pre-amp and give her a listen. I'm really hoping it will not be too much warmth. Those high-end solid state goods from the late 70s had a great sound signature and I'm hoping I don't have to go with a brighter Opamp when feeding them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

For me i think it matches my solo quite well as the solo is fairly bright i find. I like a bright sound but not too much, it does my ears in after a while.


----------



## mapstec

Penchum,

 thanks again for your work in advocating this great DAC/Amp!

 I am listening to the DAC out (OPA627x2) at the moment into a STAX SRD-X and SR-003 headphones - quite realistic and simply great sound!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great thank you! Last... How was the LT1469 at dynamics, and body with vocals? Better or worse than the LM4562?_

 

I'd say it was equal to or better than the LD4562, without the extra brightness. It sure got my attention!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For me i think it matches my solo quite well as the solo is fairly bright i find. I like a bright sound but not too much, it does my ears in after a while._

 

Yes, this is what happens to me sometimes, and I just don't like ear fatigue. Finding the right balance with Opamps is great! Now if I can just get a pair of HD-600's to go along with my HD-580s and HD-650s.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mapstec* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Penchum,

 thanks again for your work in advocating this great DAC/Amp!

 I am listening to the DAC out (OPA627x2) at the moment into a STAX SRD-X and SR-003 headphones - quite realistic and simply great sound!_

 

Thanks! I put the chart and the warning in the review, so that should help some.


----------



## fault151

Wait a minute, hold the phone.... The opa 627 + LT 1469 sounds pretty nice in the headphone section!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I didn't doubt. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So my inspiration (which has to do with my own requirements) seems proved correct. The next step is put two LT1468 on a Browndog (either twin-DIP or twin-SO8) and see if they sound better than their dual cousin - or not.


 LT1468/9 + DY2000 it shall be. If the DY2000 weren't ever found in the post, it shall be + LT1361. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes, and either of those should sound excellent. I'm beginning to think postal worldwide has gone down the drain. So many here are having issues with them! Right now, I've got Led Zeppelin 1,2,3 and 4 coming on CD, and they have no idea where they are. Probably in someones house being enjoyed instead of mine.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How's midrange tonality compared to before? Is it still lifelike as with the 1361?




 OPA827 + LT1361 (or LT1469?)

 LT1469 + DY2000/OPA2132

 are the ones to try soonest for me._

 

Its definitely more mellow than with the 1361. Its not as bright, more warm and less harsh on the ears. It's difficult getting a nice balance because i want it to sound clear and not too mellow yet i don't want it to make my ears ring with too much bright treble.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Its definitely more mellow than with the 1361. Its not as bright, more warm and less harsh on the ears. It's difficult getting a nice balance because i want it to sound clear and not too mellow yet i don't want it to make my ears ring with too much bright treble._

 

You should leave them in for a few days and see what you think then. Some hours on them should help.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You should leave them in for a few days and see what you think then. Some hours on them should help. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sounds good. 

 But, maybe, it could be even better with the DY2000 in place of the two OPA627? Could sound more colorful._

 

Yeh i'm going to leave them in for a while see how it alters. 

 Yeh i think i'll order some of DY2000. I just have to wait, iv just bought a headphone valve amp kit so i'm putting everything in to that to get all the bits. I cant wait to hear how hat sounds of the zero. 

 I'm taking it round to my mates one day to show off! ha ha, no he wants to hear it compared to his marantz cd player. Obviously i want mine to sound as good as it can.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sounds good. 

 But, maybe, it could be even better with the DY2000 in place of the two OPA627? Could sound more colorful._

 

There is also the difference in headphones too. I'm sure before this gets too far, K701 folks will want something a little mellower, the Senn types will want something a little more bright...and so on.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeh i'm going to leave them in for a while see how it alters. 

 Yeh i think i'll order some of DY2000. I just have to wait, iv just bought a headphone valve amp kit so i'm putting everything in to that to get all the bits. I cant wait to hear how hat sounds of the zero. 

 I'm taking it round to my mates one day to show off! ha ha, no he wants to hear it compared to his marantz cd player. Obviously i want mine to sound as good as it can._

 

His CD player doesn't stand a chance!


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_His CD player doesn't stand a chance! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

I hope that is the case! I'll let you know when i take it round. I just wanted to leave it to burn in first as the cd player has had plenty of time!


----------



## fault151

Ok i think the whole op amp testing for me is going to have to stop soon. Iv just listened to OPA627s + LM4562 and it sounds great! Theres a few combos i really like but i can only use one. damn!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok i think the whole op amp testing for me is going to have to stop soon. Iv just listened to OPA627s + LM4562 and it sounds great! Theres a few combos i really like but i can only use one. damn!_

 

Hee Hee Heee! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 You should have seen me that day I was testing for the chart! Here is what you can do to help determine which you like better:
 Use a song you know by heart. Put in the first set, play the whole song, and as it is playing, write down what you DON'T like. Put in the second set, and repeat. Third set, repeat. When you have done all the sets you liked, compare your write ups on what you didn't like. A clear winner will usually stand out.

 If you try to do it the other way, like writing down what you like, you'll get lost all over again.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hee Hee Heee! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You should have seen me that day I was testing for the chart! Here is what you can do to help determine which you like better:
 Use a song you know by heart. Put in the first set, play the whole song, and as it is playing, write down what you DON'T like. Put in the second set, and repeat. Third set, repeat. When you have done all the sets you liked, compare your write ups on what you didn't like. A clear winner will usually stand out.

 If you try to do it the other way, like writing down what you like, you'll get lost all over again. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Iv taken the LM4562 out as i was getting some serious interference and noise. I can't seem to track where it's coming from but it's annoying. I got the LT1364 back in which is where i originally started! ha ha. The thing is i do notice differences in the op amps but some are so minute that i go round in circles. I already did what you suggested from the start. It helps a lot!


----------



## Fremen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had wanted to trust Lawrence's list of upgrades, but it seems I was fooling myself? I justified it to myself with the fact that in differential operation (as in our case) the opamps' behaviour could be different from what is stated in the datasheets. Not so? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Don't blame yourself. As I wrote in a previous post, Lawrence's list of upgrades is not related to the Zero but part of it to the Chiarra amp.
 In fact it seems to be a kind of copy/paste of this page: Op-Amp review page
 That's also why a reader got confused and ordered the OPA2604 as an upgrade.

 I ordered mine last week (on the 13th) and still no sign of life of Lawrence since I paid. I'm not really annoyed as I read here that Lawrence seems to be a serious guy. Anyway I just sent him an email as I would like to know when it's supposed to be shipped.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, and the AD823 has turned into the LT1057, magically. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 edit- btw, Penchum, how's the LT1057 in the DAC & in the amp?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Penchum, may I ask you another question...

 Which one between the LT1364 and the LME49720 (if you tried it in the DAC, otherwise the LM4562) has better midrange, meaning better tonality/emotion and better body? 


 All this (again) to decide one and for all what opamp to start with. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hi! Sorry, I had to go shut my eyes for a while. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 No matter what I did, I could not get any performance out of the LT1057. I was going to go look at it's specs, to see if I could determine why, but I got distracted and forgot. It seems to be (compared to the others) "low power" and not as dynamic. Bass is weak and highs have little definition. It shows the same deficiencies in both the DAC and headamp. In my mind, I kept thinking, "this is like a filter" when I was swapping it around. The easy experiment is to slip it in the DAC while listening to your headphones. You'll instantly hear what I mean. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The LT1364 has better tonality/emotion and body. The LM4562 in the DAC is very bright and has a more powerful "attack", which overrides or masks the tonality/emotion and body.


----------



## Seba

I don't like my LM4562 anymore with SB X-Fi Xtrememusic. Makes the music overly bright, lacks bass and is giving listening fatique. I think that the op-amp made me switch amp and headphones in the past because I couldn't get the sound I was looking for.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seba* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't like my LM4562 anymore with SB X-Fi Xtrememusic. Makes the music overly bright, lacks bass and is giving listening fatique. I think that the op-amp made me switch amp and headphones in the past because I couldn't get the sound I was looking for._

 

Well, let's see. It could still be the transport for your Zero, so that's cool. Zero feeds your new MKIVse......ow ya! That'll work! Especially if your rips are lossless.

 Example: I just got my new Optical cables in, hooked one up between my Xtrememusic and the Zero, Zero out to my MKIVse. I had 4 CDs finally show up today, so I ripped Led Zeppelin Houses of the Holy to lossless WAV. I'm listening to it right now and I hear nuances in the songs I have never heard before! Never! That is truly a shock. It is also a testament to the quality of both the Zero and the MKIVse. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm in love with music all over again.


----------



## dantztiludrop

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fremen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered mine last week (on the 13th) and still no sign of life of Lawrence since I paid. I'm not really annoyed as I read here that Lawrence seems to be a serious guy. Anyway I just sent him an email as I would like to know when it's supposed to be shipped._

 

When you say no sign of life since you paid, do you mean that you haven't had any return email at all? I bought mine this morning & it was 13 minutes later (literally) that he emailed me saying that it's highly probable it will ship next week & he'll email me again to let me know. I was pretty impressed considering the "waits" I've read about in this thread. Or does this not necessarily have much weight as far as when it will actually get shipped? Anyways, I'm psyched!


----------



## Fremen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dantztiludrop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When you say no sign of life since you paid, do you mean that you haven't had any return email at all?_

 

Yes . That's why I sent him an email today... 17 min after I received this answer:

 "Dear Sir,

 Your Parcel will ship out next week and will let you know by email.

 Thank you very much !

 Best Regards
 Lawrence
 "

 I think that he may have some problems handling his "supply chain". The Zero may have too much success


----------



## Kake

OT: 17 days ago, I requested some free samples from LT (2xLT1364 ). Have yet to receive them,, 
 Anny one know if thy ship samples to Denmark?


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kake* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OT: 17 days ago, I requested some free samples from LT (2xLT1364 ). Have yet to receive them,, 
 Anny one know if thy ship samples to Denmark?_

 

They did ship to sweden. Took around 12 days from ordering them to delivery at my doorstep.


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fremen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes . That's why I sent him an email today... 17 min after I received this answer:

 "Dear Sir,

 Your Parcel will ship out next week and will let you know by email.

 Thank you very much !

 Best Regards
 Lawrence
 "

 I think that he may have some problems handling his "supply chain". The Zero may have too much success 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 I think you're correct...Just wish he'd be a little more accurate on his timings....causes a lot of frustration..I don't mind waiting if the info is accurate....I ordered on 2 Jan and was told the same thing...On a brighter note I just received an email from Lawrence and mine is on its way..


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trapper32* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think you're correct...Just wish he'd be a little more accurate on his timings....causes a lot of frustration..I don't mind waiting if the info is accurate....I ordered on 2 Jan and was told the same thing...On a brighter note I just received an email from Lawrence and mine is on its way..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

This is good news then! If I've been following correctly, his first 25 of 50 is shipping, and the last 25 of 50 ships next week. I agree that he could probably tighten up a little on the management side, but I suspect his operation is very small and he has found himself a little overloaded. In the beginning of this discovery, I tried to keep track of how many Zero's had been ordered by HeadFi'ers, but soon discovered there were more people ordering them who don't post, than there were people who post about it!
 So, that idea was abandoned. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm just happy everyone is getting a nice unit like the Zero. Everyone deserves to have one!!


----------



## Kake

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In case you shouldn't ever receive them, you may get yourself an AD826 for the DAC (DON'T use it in the amp!). It's another fast bipolar opamp with a pretty good reputation.

 I have had a couple for long but didn't know where to try them (since their input bias current has forbidden quite a few 'settings'); now I know!


 Should be yummy paired with the LT1358 in the amp._

 

Have no plans to acquire AD826. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but tnx for the heads up

 They are meant as an alternative for DY2000 in the amp.
 Have an 627 module which is going in the DAC,, at least that's my intention before testing any of them.. 

 Have yet to receive my amp, but today I finally received an mail with an shipping nr


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have unpacked the Zero, from the outer postal package I mean. Also I have opened the cardboard box, enough to take a look at the (nice) optical cable. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 Penchum, is the supplied optical cable what you've been using yourself?_

 

Up until yesterday, when my glass optical cables came in.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Up until yesterday, when my glass optical cables came in. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Can you tell any difference in the two cables?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can you tell any difference in the two cables?_

 

Heheheee! I knew that was coming! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well, I'll tell you what I have observed and maybe that will be ok. I have several old plastic based optical cables floating around here. I also have a couple of newer "Python" plastic optical cables around here. The older ones I have already tossed into the trash, and I'm keeping the Pythons as a back up. What I noticed was a difference in the brightness of the light between cables. It made me curious, so I checked all the cables I have. The older ones were pretty dim. The Pythons were better, but not bright. The ones that came with the Zero were much brighter than the Pythons, but shorter length.

 After just observing for a while, I decided to look around and see what other's thought about the real glass optical cables. Big mistake. Bla,Bla spend a thousand Dollars, Bla,Bla.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Then I was told by a trusted HeadFi'er that the Glass Optical Cables on eBay, for much less than the Bla, Bla, were indeed worth the money, due to better cable, better connectors and overall construction and appearance. This sold me on the idea, because they weren't making claims about sonic this and that, they were commenting on the USE and construction of the cable.

 When mine came in, the first thing I did was compare the actual cable build to the others I have. Much better construction and looks. Made to last. Then I compared the brightness of the light and the new glass ones are so much brighter than any of my others! That may not mean any kind of improvement musically, but it doesn't take a genius to figure that the brighter signal is better, looking from a "transport" point of view. I ordered three of the new glass optical cables, two are 6 feet and one is 3 feet in length. When I compare the new six foot cable to the new three foot cable, the brightness is the same, so it appears the "transport" of the signal is not degraded easily by length, with the glass instead of plastic. The other thing noticed was the actual connectors, when they "click" in place. The old ones, even though not frequently used, did not connect as solid as the new glass ones.

 All these observations combined makes me feel that the $80 I spent was worth it. They should last indefinitely, and I will not have to worry about plastic becoming less clear with age. The advertisement for the glass ones on ebay pretty much sums up the advantages I have seen. The two six footer's are going to be connected all the time, and the three footer is for hooking up portable optical things, like my Sony PCDP. One thing is for sure. Spending $80 is much better than $1000 for the same known advantages! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sorry if I went on a bit.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But the sound?_

 

They sound wonderful.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Better (and how) than the supplied optical cable? Also, have you tried quality coaxial cables? In the past, I had much preferred coaxial to optical._

 

Too soon to tell any musical advantages (if any exist). I have tried coaxial from my computer to the Zero. I have a pretty decent coaxial cable, that cost me about the same amount as the glass one I just bought, a few years ago. It works just fine. Here in my home office, the big worry is interference from other devices. I have too much Vintage solid state crammed in here, plus computers and other devices. Optical eliminates interference worries completely, so logic dictated its use here. If I hear any advantages to the music, I'll let you know.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I hear any advantages to the music, I'll let you know. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

please do!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have unpacked the Zero, from the outer postal package I mean. Also I have opened the cardboard box, enough to take a look at the (nice) optical cable. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 Penchum, is the supplied optical cable what you've been using yourself?_

 

Ok, you must have it all hooked up by now! How is it coming along???


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, you must have it all hooked up by now! How is it coming along???_

 

I think he is just trying to keep us all in suspense!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No - just trying to give myself time in order to do everything well (and I mean everything else too) without haste. After all, there's so much time..._

 

I put my spare LT1364 in my MK1. WOW! What a nice change! That is one nice Opamp for sure! Do you suppose LT would give me more if I requested it? Also, it makes me want to try the LT1469 in there too!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Any pops at power on [concerned about offset voltage] ? I'd probably rather go with the LT1358, LT1361 and LT1469 for the MkI. Would be interesting to have them compared in a different application 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you need more, try and make a new sample request.._

 

Ya, I think I'm going to. No more pop at power up than the LM4562 had. Seems the same.

 So, tell us about your Zero! Tell us about your Zero! Tell us about your Zero!


----------



## fault151

Well i tried my zero of a friends marantz cd player to compare the dacs. I have to say the marantz does sound much better at the minute. Whether the fact that the marantz is ten years old and has had a long time to burn in compared to mine that has had 3days max! I think it will be better once it's had more time to settle. We're going to try it again sometime. Theres no doubt it will be better than a lower end cd player , but the marantz e tried has more bass better tone than the zero. 

 Im still really happy with it as the whole point i got it for was to upgrade my mac output and it certainly did that.

 Does anyone think it will ever compete and sound better in time or is it that the £450 worth of the marantz is just hands down better quality???


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL for the 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well...please be patient until tomorrow (morning). I promise!


 However it'll only be linked to my Pioneer integrated -> Polk Audio speakers, for now. It takes that replacement cable for the HD650 to arrive for me to be able to try its headphone amp too._

 







































:e ek:


----------



## jamato8

With little bit of time on the Zero there is no way to know what it will sound like. With all the caps and everything else the changes, 3 days is almost like out of the box. As you note, the bass is one thing that can take a while to form but often is one of the latter frequencies to really integrate with the sound in a substantial manner. 



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well i tried my zero of a friends marantz cd player to compare the dacs. I have to say the marantz does sound much better at the minute. Whether the fact that the marantz is ten years old and has had a long time to burn in compared to mine that has had 3days max! I think it will be better once it's had more time to settle. We're going to try it again sometime. Theres no doubt it will be better than a lower end cd player , but the marantz e tried has more bass better tone than the zero. 

 Im still really happy with it as the whole point i got it for was to upgrade my mac output and it certainly did that.

 Does anyone think it will ever compete and sound better in time or is it that the £450 worth of the marantz is just hands down better quality???_


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With little bit of time on the Zero there is no way to know what it will sound like. With all the caps and everything else the changes, 3 days is almost like out of the box. As you note, the bass is one thing that can take a while to form but often is one of the latter frequencies to really integrate with the sound in a substantial manner._

 

I agree 100%

 Mine took the full 100hrs to really mature to a "stable" plateau. The changes were NOT subtle. Run the heck out of them, then do critical listening.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What Marantz model was it?

 The digital interconnect can make a great difference. Were you just using the supplied optical cable? Once I found that even a 1300 euro DAC sounded quite bad if feeded through a cheapish optical cable.


 Also you could use a better opamp than the OPA627, especially for tonal quality._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With little bit of time on the Zero there is no way to know what it will sound like. With all the caps and everything else the changes, 3 days is almost like out of the box. As you note, the bass is one thing that can take a while to form but often is one of the latter frequencies to really integrate with the sound in a substantial manner._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yup, that and the digital cable._

 


 Stupidly i didn't look at the model number so i don't know. I wasn't really a fair test as its still new and will never sound as good at the start. We used a good quality coax cable from the zero. I think i just need to let it burn. He was planning on buying a dac but he thinks its best to upgrade his cd player rather than buy a zero or other external dac. 

 Has anyone else compared them to their cd players? im very keen to hear if the results are the same as we found?

 So would you all agree it should improve and be much better competition with time? Also technically should it be better than the marantz? It was £450 new for the marantz so its a good cd player but not top of the range or anything.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Me, tomorrow morning. I'm sure I have a player with a great sound so it should make for a good reference point.


 Technically, starting from the D/A converter chip, the Zero is certainly better; except that probably the Marantz has a discrete output stage (their trademark HDAM) ? Btw, I'd rather have a LT1364 or AD826 in the Zero than the OPA627.

 'Vintage' CD players can sound very good, btw, especially Marantz._

 

Yeh it does sound pretty nice. Why would you prefer the LT1364 in the dac?What characteristics does it have? Do you think i should leave it for a few weeks and run the zero in for as long as possible, then try it again?


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Perhaps. Or if you're impatient like me (ehh...I'm one who oscillates between extremities 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ) just try replacing the OPA's with the LT since you have it.

 Well the LT1364 and AD826 (both bipolar with high slew rates & low settling times) have excellent transparency, the OPA627 being FET and slower is a little more muddy, especially in the bass._

 

Well i was a bit dissapointed in the sound when i heard it,but, i think it wasn't really fair on the zero. 

 The thing is i love the 627's in the dac with headphones, it was when we hooked it up via speakers it sounded a bit crap. The speakers we used were pretty good too! Kef.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Stupidly i didn't look at the model number so i don't know. I wasn't really a fair test as its still new and will never sound as good at the start. We used a good quality coax cable from the zero. I think i just need to let it burn. He was planning on buying a dac but he thinks its best to upgrade his cd player rather than buy a zero or other external dac. 

 Has anyone else compared them to their cd players? im very keen to hear if the results are the same as we found?

 So would you all agree it should improve and be much better competition with time? Also technically should it be better than the marantz? It was £450 new for the marantz so its a good cd player but not top of the range or anything._

 

There is no reason why the Zero shouldn't sound better with the right Opamps in it, and it being "matured". Many CD player manufacturers have to compromise between what sounds best, and what costs less. This usually results in the player NOT being as good as it could have been. Some others build around a particular chip and this limits the players potential as well.

 I have a Pioneer DV-444 slim player with Burr Brown Opamps and a completely separate audio/DAC section built internal. It does sound very good! However, unless I want to break out the soldering iron and get crazy, I need an external DAC. Using the Zero with it, and using the LT1364 in the DAC, it sounds much better than the player did by itself. Today, I'm going to pull out the crappy Optical cable I was using and put in the glass one.
 I'll see directly if there is any improvement and let you know.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you mean the LT1364? Have you tried in the DAC board, yet?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is no reason why the Zero shouldn't sound better with the right Opamps in it, and it being "matured". Many CD player manufacturers have to compromise between what sounds best, and what costs less. This usually results in the player NOT being as good as it could have been. Some others build around a particular chip and this limits the players potential as well.

 I have a Pioneer DV-444 slim player with Burr Brown Opamps and a completely separate audio/DAC section built internal. It does sound very good! However, unless I want to break out the soldering iron and get crazy, I need an external DAC. Using the Zero with it, and using the LT1364 in the DAC, it sounds much better than the player did by itself. Today, I'm going to pull out the crappy Optical cable I was using and put in the glass one.
 I'll see directly if there is any improvement and let you know. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 No i haven't had chance to swap it yet. I will definitely try it in the dac though. The thing is i want the dac to suit the solo amp i have and at the minute i really love the solo + 627 combo. Im still going to try it with the 1364. I really want to know what others think to their wn cd player against the zero. 
 Theres no doubt it improves my sony cd player but id love it to compete with something that costs a lot moe than the zero.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No i haven't had chance to swap it yet. I will definitely try it in the dac though. The thing is i want the dac to suit the solo amp i have and at the minute i really love the solo + 627 combo. Im still going to try it with the 1364. I really want to know what others think to their wn cd player against the zero. 
 Theres no doubt it improves my sony cd player but id love it to compete with something that costs a lot moe than the zero._

 

That DV-444 was a $400-$500 player. It was designed with two other models to be the "top" of the line. This one just happens to be the "slim" version. That's why I mentioned it. The guy on ebay I bought it from, had no idea and I won it for $40.


----------



## fault151

Right, I've just had a quick check, and to go with the LT1364 in the DAC I can either use for the headphone amp, either the LT1361 or the LT1469 or even the LT1364 again. Which one would be the best solution for the head phone amp?


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd say LT1469 in the amp, with LT1364 in the DAC.


 Also you may compare the LT1364 with the LT1361 in the DAC._

 

Which do you think will be the best set up? I'm determined to make the zero beat most cd players internal dacs!


----------



## fault151

At the minute i have the lt1364 and the 1469 in headphone. Sound pretty nice. Im just going to have to leave it running for ages to mature.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_At the minute i have the lt1364 and the 1469 in headphone. Sound pretty nice. Im just going to have to leave it running for ages to mature._

 

That is a good combo! The reverse is good too, but for some reason, the LT1364 in the DAC made the DAC sound better and the headphone sound was more in control, using the LT1469s.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That is a good combo! The reverse is good too, but for some reason, the LT1364 in the DAC made the DAC sound better and the headphone sound was more in control, using the LT1469s. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeh i do like the sound so far. I wish i could hear it a month in advance to see how much it changes. Hows yours sounding so far?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeh i do like the sound so far. I wish i could hear it a month in advance to see how much it changes. Hows yours sounding so far?_

 

Actually, I have that combo in Zero #1 hooked optical to my PC and to my MKIVse. Got the HD-650s on my head and the sound is fantastic! The output from the DAC is so proper, my MKIVse is tube flavoring it so sweetly! Led Zeppelin, Houses of the Holy never sounded so good!!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually the LT1469 is really tempting for the DAC too [sorry if I sound like a broken record 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




]. You can also do 2x LT1468 if you like._

 

I would really like to hear your (or anyones) impression of the DY2000. I have been so tempted to order it, but I couldn't decide between the normal or metal version, and before I spend on that, I wanted to know something! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I guess my "envisioned" use would be in the DAC, for my digital to Vintage Zero. Thoughts?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I couldn't but notice that the digital coaxial connector on the rear of the Zero is slightly 'crooked' (meaning not perpendicular). The same, but less evidently, for the volume knob. Anyone else have noticed this on theirs?



 btw, 6th post in a row 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

My #1 is that way. I looked close and it seems the bolt down of the main board caused it. I didn't mess with it. It seems to be a no worry thing.


----------



## Fremen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Led Zeppelin, Houses of the Holy never sounded so good!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hehe 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, Hard rock, funk and reggae on the same album, nice one to try the Zero


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Btw, you wouldn't even think that an opamp upgrade is "needed". 

 More important would be a serious digital coaxial interconnect._

 

There is a default synergy with the Opamps chosen for the Zero. No doubt. I do like the ebay glass optical cable, even if I only get "peace of mind" out of it.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you think of it... the DAC chip is "1852", the opamp (single version) "6(0)4". No doubt there must be synergy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

Well, when you put it like that....


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How else should I put it? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			







 I have changed CD, and listening to Tom Waits, Bone Machine, I clearly realized that the overall balance is different from that of my CD player. The treble is lower in level, although it's much more 'detached' from the speakers' tweeters which is a good sign. Overall at present it's a bit too much a laidback sound for my taste; indeed the LT1364 and AD826 should do a lot of good to the sound. As it is now, I would want no OPA627.

 This is also the way I recall my Northstar Design Model 192 sounding when I used a cheapish (but still better looking than this one) optical cable. Things had changed entirely when I switched to a coaxial cable. So I'm not in the least concerned about this._

 

It sounds like you are exactly on course. At about the 50 hour or so mark, the treble will become more pronounced and that laid back will lighten up some. More definition in the bass too.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well things must be improving indeed, since I've just been listening to the same CD by Tom Waits (at higher volume than before 'cause my parents were taking a rest) & I already think I couldn't live anymore without the Zero.


 It has really shed a new light on this CD (Bone Machine) which I knew so well... enough to show how great this album is (sorry can't put it into words 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


 Something impressive about the sound (as opposed to the music) is the bass & the low level resolution (and the resulting ambience feeling) brought about by the Zero; coupled with the liquidity of the sound._

 

Yep, you are right on schedule. More jaw droppin' coming soon!


----------



## jamato8

Looks good. So what other dacs has the Zero now been compared to? At the price of admission though one really can't complain, from what I am reading, and this could be a very nice addition to high value dac or I should say it appears it already is.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looks good. So what other dacs has the Zero now been compared to? At the price of admission though one really can't complain, from what I am reading, and this could be a very nice addition to high value dac or I should say it appears it already is._

 

If I had doubts in the beginning, they are gone now for sure. Low cost flexibility is it's true strength. A new user with a notebook can buy the Zero and the headphones they always wanted now, get full use and enjoyment out of them until they have saved enough to pickup a separate tube or solid state headphone amp, to be driven by their Zero. We have MANY students doing this exact upgrade path, because they see the logic of it, as well as the thriftiness of it. Everyone deserves to have a Zero!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looks good. So what other dacs has the Zero now been compared to? At the price of admission though one really can't complain, from what I am reading, and this could be a very nice addition to high value dac or I should say it appears it already is._

 

On a more personal note, I have been totally blown away by the Zero. The level of quality it possesses, the build quality, its simple but eloquent design, ease of use and compact size all put together make it a "High Quality, High Value DAC/Head Amp". Even with all the amps I have now, I still plug my HD-650s into the Zero and listen to it's excellent sound quite often.


----------



## AudioNoob

Does anyone have both ld2 or ld mark II along zero, it would help to see a comparison.


----------



## dsmudger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would really like to hear your (or anyones) impression of the DY2000. I have been so tempted to order it, but I couldn't decide between the normal or metal version, and before I spend on that, I wanted to know something! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I guess my "envisioned" use would be in the DAC, for my digital to Vintage Zero. Thoughts?_

 

I've tried the ceramic one in the DAC section - didn't spend too long with it but every time I've swapped it in with something or other in the headphone section I seem to remember thinking it was smooth but not detailed enough.. I'll try it again in a bit and report back if you like (I mean to order a few more opamps to try at some point soon so I'd better keep hold of it for a little while, but if you're in no hurry maybe we can do a swap for one you're not using - or if they're worth about the same as a pint of beer you can have it for free when I settle down a bit with all the swapping and changing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 Since my last post I've had a metal LME49720 in the DAC and the same in plastic DIP in the headamp (someone was asking about it a few pages back?) and it's the best sound so far (haven't changed for anything else in a few days anyway 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) - it has its issues, like there's a definite notch somewhere in the high/mids - somewhere around where the vocals are in the theme tune to CSI:NY - last time I noticed it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (optical -> TV), but overall it's the fastest, most detailed combination I have and although there's very clear treble, it's not fatiguing to listen to. Bass is not all that powerful, but what's there's quite fast/tight.

 On my list to try next, from googling/reading around the place:
 AD746
 AD826 (dual)
 AD827 (dual)
 OPA627
 OPA637
 AD8066 (dual, but SMD only - will be lucky to find anyone selling pre-soldered ones on adaptors..)

 Maybes:
 AD825
 AD828
 AD8620
 AD744 (single version of AD746 - likely to be much difference?) 
 OPA134

 btw Normality mentioned back there not to use the AD826 in the headamp board? Why's that and is there something to look for on the spec sheet to know in future?

 Some of those are pretty pricey so that'll mean I'll be putting those in the DAC anyway (better chip higher in the signal path seems to make sense..), but where possible I was thinking of repeating what I've got now with the LME49720 - all three the same in DAC/headamp to get an idea of the unit's characteristics and then try different combinations/try to match them up? 

 Or is it not that simple because they perform under different conditions/different configuration in each side (e.g one good for the DAC might be terrible in the headamp)?


----------



## dsmudger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also,

 I have just ordered from National two LME49710 and two LME49720, all in the TO99 "metal can" package.

 I have sockets to solder the duals to, and twin-DIP Browndog adapters to solder the singles on. Looks promising 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



_

 

Probably a good idea.. I just looked at the pinout on the datasheet and sort of shoved it in the socket 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (later twisted the top a bit to make a better connection when it didn't sound so good straight off - seems to work well enough from what I can tell..?)


----------



## charley phogg

Wow, you guys are ROCKIN'!!!! It's been a few rough days for me so I haven't been able to catch up on this thread. So much information you all are spitting out I think I'm going to have to create a separate folder and save certain pages for reference points...... hmmmmm wonder how long before that would baffle me? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks again to all the vaulable info you all or provding ofru us.

 Fault, I guess I must of caught them between production runs, haven't heard anyting back on ship date so I guess I'll drop an email and find out status. I'm going bonkers checking my email every day. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Regarding the sound out of your Mac... there;s so many factors that come into play and I don't know a thing about Mac's, but I have heard they have good audio (?) I think. 
 If you're using onboard audio it won't be as good as a dedicated sound card because the cpu is having to do all sorts of things while it is coverting the audio , and also more possibility of noise being injected. But them again newer computers the audio has taken a big step in quality in the past year or wo. 

 Also I believe you have a laptop, which again I have no experience with, but everything in a laptop is a compromise, not to mention everything is jam packed inside the case.

 All I can do is relate my experience with my pc's to give you and idea hopefully. My main rig I built myslef Intel Core2Duo and is 1 1/2 years old,and have a good, high quality and effiecent power supply in it that is roughly a foot above my sound card. I aslo have a failry decent video card which runs on a completey diffrent bus and chip then my soundcard, which Im sure also helps. And my sound cards is a Auzentech Xplosion with rolled opamps in it ( I forget which ones). My 5.1 speaker syatem is logitech 5300's, I think , I got such a good deal on them couldn't pass them up for games and movies. It has a controller that has the headphone jack in it. And right now I use a TotalBitHead out of usb.

 When I plug my cans directly into the controller it sounds almost as good as my BitHead. I say alsmot becasue the sound is very similiar, just more refined, and less edgy with the BitHeadout of usb.

 My other pc is an ancient run of the mill typical office pc with a intel p3 I think, probably 8 years old or so with crappy onboard audio. It will drive my 580's but sounds thin and tinny. With my Bithead in the usb it probably sounds as good as my main rig. But that is bare bones and I use asio4all on that one.

 Sorry I can't be no more help then that, but at least you know there is hope. It could be some sort of conflict, or maybe just a matter of changing some settings or something. 

 Hopefully some others will be able to offer more help, or check out the copmuters section here for some ideas. My guess would be that you are being limitied from the onboard audio.

 Good to hear of your pleasant experience with Graham. In my dealing with him through forums, he is very pleasant,passionate about his music and a genuinely nice and helpful man.


----------



## AudioNoob

anybody have the seller contact out of ebay?


----------



## dsmudger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A few notes on some opamps mentioned:


 AD746 (dual opamp) - only suitable for the amp; much too little output current for the DAC. Interesting for the amp, however.

 AD827 (dual) - also little (but more at the threshold with acceptable) output current, otherwise great option for the DAC like the AD826. Not to be used in the amp due to very high Ib -> high DC offset which can blow you headphones!

 OPA637 - not unity gain stable, thus not suited for the Zero at all.

 AD8066 - not suited for the Zero at all since its maximum supply voltage is +/-12V like the AD8620, and the Zero has +/-15V throughout. And btw the AD8620 sounds better.

 AD825 - single, good option for the amp mostly.

 AD828 - specified as stable from G=+2, so I wouldn't try to use it in the Zero.

 AD8620 - don't use it in the Zero, as above.

 AD744 - single version of AD746; probably too impractical for the Zero; but, two of them could be put on a twin-SO8 adapter, with pin6 of each opamp lifted, & pin5 connected to the pad for pin6 - this way you bypass the output stage of the opamp -> more transparency.

 OPA134 - well the OPA2134 and the OPA2132 could be worth trying in the amp. The stock OPA2604 is better for the DAC._

 

Wow thanks so much for that! Saved me some money there no doubt 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Are you able to give a rough indication of tresholds for values to look out for on the spec sheet? (e.g. output current > ~x for the DAC, Ib < ~y for the headamp etc?)


----------



## dsmudger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sounds interesting, thanks! Do you agree that the LME49720 is a better opamp that the LM4562?_

 

Yeah I would say so - beautiful highs, maybe a little cold but I kind of like it that way... 

 though I guess I probably didn't spend enough time with the 4562 (guess I dismissed them fairly quickly as inferior to the 49720, even despite its issues with slight lack of bass grunt and notch in the high mids I mentioned earlier 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) - I'll see about popping it back in tonight and report back now I've spent some time with the all-49720 configuration - maybe two 4562 in the headphone section to see if that notch goes away, whether there's a price to pay in terms of clarity and so on...


----------



## Henmyr

My zero is now on the way, so I will try to get some samples from LT.

 I have:
 LT1364#CN8 x2
 LT1361#CN8 x2
 LT1057#ACN8 x2
 LT1028#ACN8 x2
 LME49720NA x3

 Thinking about getting:
 LT1469 x2
 LT1358 x2

 What else from linear would be good?

 EDIT: I have browndog adaptor.


----------



## king756

WooHoo,

 Just got my shipping number, it's on the way.

 I've got lost in this thread with all the talk of swapping opamps etc.

 Can someone explain how you swap these? Do you have to de-solder them and replace with a new one or do these simply just slot into a socket?

 I will probably leave it stock for the time being and wait till people come up with some more definite recommended replacement combinations. It is good to know how to swap the opamps and what you are on about when you say dac opamp / headphone opamp....(are these two different circuits)?


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I couldn't but notice that the digital coaxial connector on the rear of the Zero is slightly 'crooked' (meaning not perpendicular). The same, but less evidently, for the volume knob. Anyone else have noticed this on theirs?



 btw, 6th post in a row 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

no, but my volume knob is a bit noisy! Anyone elses?


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Normality* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is my setup at the moment:

 (tweaked) Cambridge Audio D300SE CD player -> cheap but not so bad optical cable supplied with the Zero -> Zero -> solid core 4-wire-braid silver interconnects -> Pioneer A-209R integrated amp -> Gotham (a Swiss pro brand) 4mmq speaker cables -> Polk Audio Monitor 30 bookshelves.


 Admittedly the amp/speakers are not the best you can get by a long shot 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 but they're very honest and actually surprisingly good put together. No problem enjoying Tom Waits and all the rest with them. Still they're certainly not the pinnacle of audio reproduction for transparency and such. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 In any event, the sound from the Zero is very good out of the box, genuinely natural and clear. A bit heavier on midbass than my CD player; overall a little smoother and slightly more transparent. Tonal quality is a little bit behind right now, but you have to listen closely; I'm sure it'll improve. Overall, it's already (with no burn in & crappy digital interconnect) a pretty subtle yet real, I think, improvement on my already very good sounding cd player. Which, btw, has a very good transport & all related circuitry and this makes me even more glad I went with the Zero.


 So...the Zero is burning in. Will listen again later, naturally._

 


 Hows the sound compared to the dac on your c audio cd player? You tried it through a set of floor standers? Thats when i noticed a big difference in mine.


----------



## wquiles

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *king756* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can someone explain how you swap these? Do you have to de-solder them and replace with a new one or do these simply just slot into a socket?_

 

No soldering required. These parts are in 8-pin sockets.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *king756* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is good to know how to swap the opamps and what you are on about when you say dac opamp / headphone opamp....(are these two different circuits)?_

 

Yes, two different circuits. One is for the output of the DAC, which feeds the signal to the analog outputs, and the other circuit is the one that handles the Headphone amplifier.

 Will


----------



## fault151

Well i think my zero is starting to open up in sound a lot more! Im sat listening to the chili peppers and it sounds fantastic! Much better than usual. I've had it playing away to its self for nearly a week non stop.


----------



## charley phogg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_no, but my volume knob is a bit noisy! Anyone elses?_

 

 That knob sure looks nice on there, could it be from the added weight, if any?


----------



## ironman64

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *king756* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WooHoo,

 Just got my shipping number, it's on the way.
_

 

Nice job! I ordered on the 6th & reasoned mine would ship with the next batch--which it may still. I just wish I would've received my shipping number by now so this twiddling of my thumbs would go away (_c'est la vie_).


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *charley phogg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That knob sure looks nice on there, could it be from the added weight, if any?_

 

Im not sure, i don't think it will be. It just sounds like its got grit in the pot or something. Its ok when i've adjusted the volume, its when i move it i hear it. Just a bit annoying!


----------



## davve

i ordered samples from LT fast delivery! now i'm waiting on my zero! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 my zero is on its way now!


----------



## king756

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ironman64* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice job! I ordered on the 6th & reasoned mine would ship with the next batch--which it may still. I just wish I would've received my shipping number by now so this twiddling of my thumbs would go away (c'est la vie)._

 

Did you order from Lawence?

 I placed my order on 15 Jan so you should of heard something by now.


----------



## Seba

My Zero has shipped today. Now the agonizing wait begins (or continues)...


----------



## ironman64

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *king756* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you order from Lawence?

 I placed my order on 15 Jan so you should of heard something by now._

 

Yep. Ordered via e-mail. Wrote him an inquiry right after my post above. Curious . . .


----------



## Fremen

Mine is coming too... Come on baby, come on


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Im not sure, i don't think it will be. It just sounds like its got grit in the pot or something. Its ok when i've adjusted the volume, its when i move it i hear it. Just a bit annoying!_

 

I think my #2 has the same thing. I just haven't got around to cleaning it yet. A little Deoxit and it will be over with. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The heavier knob should have no effect on the pot. It sure does make it smoother to operate.


----------



## Penchum

I couldn't help notice this POLL someone started: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/pol...ap-dac-288043/
 It looks like the Zero is on the list. Hummmm. Even though I know the Zero is not "cheap", it is inexpensive! Maybe I should go give my vote.


----------



## Andreas_D

Mine is on the way too...I also ordered some samples from LT( 1 x LT1364, 2 x LT1469, 2 x LT1361) I hope they will send it to me...I'm very curious how will sound my K601 on Zero, I'm already impressed by their sq even unamplified...

 I want to ask you something about burn in: is there a time limit for continuously burning in?

 LE: I have another question: what differences are between:
 LT1361CN8
 LT1361CN8#PBF
 LT1361CS8
 LT1361CS8#PBF


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Andreas_D* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine is on the way too...I also ordered some samples from LT, I hope they will send it to me...I'm very curious how will sound my K601 on Zero, I'm already impressed by their sq even unamplified...

 I want to ask you something about burn in: is there a time limit for continuously burning in?_

 

None that I'm aware of. With my second Zero, I was in a hurry, so I hooked up my Creative Vision, selected all songs, with repeat on, plugged in my HD-580s and let it run for about 6 days straight.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think my #2 has the same thing. I just haven't got around to cleaning it yet. A little Deoxit and it will be over with. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The heavier knob should have no effect on the pot. It sure does make it smoother to operate. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Whats Deoxit? Is it the equivalent to WD40 over here in the UK? Like lubricant for cars? It sounds dead gritty and it annoys me!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Whats Deoxit? Is it the equivalent to WD40 over here in the UK? Like lubricant for cars? It sounds dead gritty and it annoys me! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It's like a tuner cleaner, with just a tiny bit of lube in it. Most contact cleaners will work if they are friendly to plastic (make sure they are first).


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's like a tuner cleaner, with just a tiny bit of lube in it. Most contact cleaners will work if they are friendly to plastic (make sure they are first).
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Cheers i will do. Has it got a cheap vol pot in the zero? Thats probably why it does it. At least mine isn't the only one that does.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cheers i will do. Has it got a cheap vol pot in the zero? Thats probably why it does it. At least mine isn't the only one that does._

 

I hadn't really got a close look at it. I expect it is just a standard pot, which will clean up nicely.


----------



## Henmyr

I need some clarifications on op-amps.

 What is the difference between CN8, IN8, ACN8 and which one is the best to use?

 For exemple: LT1469, which one of LT1469CN8, LT1469IN8#PBF and LT1469CN8#PBF should one use?


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Andreas_D* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine is on the way too...I also ordered some samples from LT( 1 x LT1364, 2 x LT1469, 2 x LT1361) I hope they will send it to me...I'm very curious how will sound my K601 on Zero, I'm already impressed by their sq even unamplified...

 I want to ask you something about burn in: is there a time limit for continuously burning in?

 LE: I have another question: what differences are between:
 LT1361CN8
 LT1361CN8#PBF
 LT1361CS8
 LT1361CS8#PBF_

 

Ah missed your post. Well CS8 is SOIC, so I do not think it's possible to use it without some kind of solder mod.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Buster K* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's just a standard, non-sealed pot. It may very well be Alps._

 

Thanks BK, I hadn't had time to pop the top the last couple of days. It should clean up nicely then. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm glad you like the Zero, it sure had turned out to be the "bang for buck" winner!


----------



## ironman64

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *king756* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you order from Lawence?

 I placed my order on 15 Jan so you should of heard something by now._

 

Just got back word from Lawrence including a beautiful sight, the tracking number. Now . . . more waiting.


----------



## dantztiludrop

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ironman64* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got back word from Lawrence including a beautiful sight, the tracking number. Now . . . more waiting. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yee-hah...I woke up to an email from him with a tracking # this morning too! I'm impressed considering that I didn't order mine until Friday (1/18) afternoon! Much better than I expected!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ironman64* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got back word from Lawrence including a beautiful sight, the tracking number. Now . . . more waiting. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dantztiludrop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yee-hah...I woke up to an email from him with a tracking # this morning too! I'm impressed considering that I didn't order mine until Friday (1/18) afternoon! Much better than I expected!_

 

Excellent! Don't forget to put in your LT requests now, if you had planned too.


----------



## Kake

Question regarding opamps..
 Have received a pair of DY2000, its the metal version including two sockets
 q: which foot/pin are supposed to go where...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Have also received a pair of LT1364CN8 (in an hopeless package.. meaning an "letter" with no protection = all the "pins" a bent in all directions..)
 But I guess they can still be used.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kake* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Question regarding opamps..
 Have received a pair of DY2000, its the metal version including two sockets
 q: which foot/pin are supposed to go where...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Have also received a pair of LT1364CN8 (in an hopeless package.. meaning an "letter" with no protection = all the "pins" a bent in all directions..)
 But I guess they can still be used._

 

Look at how the original op amps are, pull one out and replace it with the new one in ths same direction. There is a little white dot on most of them that defines the angle it should be. Just put your in the same way. Hope that helps.

 Yeh you should be able to bend the pins back in, just be gentle they may snap off and also you have to be careful not to short them out.


----------



## Looknbuy

My Zero is apparently dented in the top right corner of the front aluminium panel. It could've been bad postal handling, even if the outer package doesn't show signs of heavy abuse. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Has someone noticed anything similar on theirs?


----------



## Almoxil

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dantztiludrop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yee-hah...I woke up to an email from him with a tracking # this morning too! I'm impressed considering that I didn't order mine until Friday (1/18) afternoon! Much better than I expected!_

 

I got an email from Lawrence with tracking number this morning as well. Yay!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Looknbuy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Zero is apparently dented in the top right corner of the front aluminium panel. It could've been bad postal handling, even if the outer package doesn't show signs of heavy abuse. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Has someone noticed anything similar on theirs?_

 

On my first one, there was additional sanding or burr removal on the top right, but it wasn't anything distracting, so I just didn't think too much of it. If your's is bad, you should snap a pic and send it to Lawrence.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Almoxil* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got an email from Lawrence with tracking number this morning as well. Yay! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Cool! That's what, Four of you now?


----------



## bada bing

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cool! That's what, Four of you now? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I got a tracking number on the 18th, I paid on Dec 28th so there was a delay getting mine out, but no worries. Tracking number indicates it made to the USA on the 21st (yesterday). Probably a few more days till it shows up here.


----------



## bada bing

I'm already considering what to "do" to the zero after sampling it stock for a reasonable period. I'll probably roll a few op-amps, but I'm wondering if a PPAv2 board can be stuffed into the case in place of the stock amp board ? I just happen to have a complete set of parts for a PPAv2 board in a box somewhere around here


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bada bing* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm already considering what to "do" to the zero after sampling it stock for a reasonable period. I'll probably roll a few op-amps, but I'm wondering if a PPAv2 board can be stuffed into the case in place of the stock amp board ? I just happen to have a complete set of parts for a PPAv2 board in a box somewhere around here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Don't hold me too this, but I'm fairly certain the headphone board in the Zero is better. There were some comments made way back that give me that impression. One thing is sure though. When I changed the Opamp on the DAC board to LT1364 and the two on the headphone board to LT1469s, I about fell out of my chair! Absolutely amazing changes!


----------



## biph911

Just ordered mine from Lawrence. The wife acceptance factor on this item is very high.


----------



## Andreas_D

Congratulations! The waiting will be cruel...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Untill my zero will be arrived, I'm thinking of buying a new pair of headphones. I have SR60 and I like very much the mids of this model, but the treble it's a bit harsh for me, the bass I'd prefered to be more thighten and overall sound to be more detalied and clear. I think the SR325 or Alessandro MS2 sound should be more refined, not harsh or muddy. 
 Have anyone of you this combination? SR325i or MS2 => Zero DAC
 Are well driven 32ohm headphones by the Zero amp?

 Thank you.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bada bing* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm already considering what to "do" to the zero after sampling it stock for a reasonable period. I'll probably roll a few op-amps, but I'm wondering if a PPAv2 board can be stuffed into the case in place of the stock amp board ? I just happen to have a complete set of parts for a PPAv2 board in a box somewhere around here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Cute avatar, not that I have blond hair but it reminds me of myself when I was little. Johnny, don't touch the burner, it's hot! Johnny touched the burner. Johnny, don't stick your finger in there! that is where a light bulb goes and it will hurt you! Johnny had to test this premiss not once, but twice and then periodically, stepping up the voltage, for most of his life starting from the 120 to 240 and finally on my preamp power supply I was building, a well capacitated 720 volts. Know what your own burning flesh smells like? I do. Well they never said, "Johnnnny, don't cook that!"


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Andreas_D* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congratulations! The waiting will be cruel...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Untill my zero will be arrived, I'm thinking of buying a new pair of headphones. I have SR60 and I like very much the mids of this model, but the treble it's a bit harsh for me, the bass I'd prefered to be more thighten and overall sound to be more detalied and clear. I think the SR325 or Alessandro MS2 sound should be more refined, not harsh or muddy. 
 Have anyone of you this combination? SR325i or MS2 => Zero DAC
 Are well driven 32ohm headphones by the Zero amp?

 Thank you._

 

I will soon know what Zero -> Ms2i sounds like.


----------



## Almoxil

I'm interested in knowing that too. I'm itching to order a MS-2... (already have the MS-1 and love them)


----------



## SLUSHIE

Mine came today!

 I hooked it up to my pc though optical and I have no sound, so I tried the usb thing and that doesn't work either.

 I'm sure its settings on my PC but i don't really have time to mess with that right now.


----------



## smirnoff04

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SLUSHIE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine came today!

 I hooked it up to my pc though optical and I have no sound, so I tried the usb thing and that doesn't work either.

 I'm sure its settings on my PC but i don't really have time to mess with that right now._

 

Pull the optical cable out of the Zero and make sure there is light coming through. And make sure you have the Phone button pressed on the zero. The green LED should be on.


----------



## crashley

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cool! That's what, Four of you now? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well, at least 5. I've been lurking on this thread since day 1 and finally couldn't resist the urge to check a Zero out for myself.


----------



## cafe zeenuts

I just got my ZERO brought it off from Lawrence. Put in LT1364 in DAC dont have any other op amp available around to put in headphone section so just using stock which is NE5532p.

 First impression.

 Listening to Billie Jean from Thriller M.Jackson the sound is just awful, thin and no details at all. During intro first 10sec the snare drum sound very harsh, absolute no timbre. There is only a bit echo as the drummer hits the snare drum during the intro. 

 I have to say before i cooked my ibasso D1 trying to upgrade blackgate caps the D1 sounds way better using LTC 6241HV in DAC, AD797 in L/R and buffer bypassed. Snare drum was tight and is control with plenty of timbre. Abundance of echo during intro.

 I dont have headphone amp at this stage so i cant comment on how the DAC sounds using line out. Will pick a a LD MKV from CHINA when i head over there next week for a holiday. 

 I'm letting it burn in now will check back at 50hr mark to see if there is any improvement. For its price i didnt expect to much from it.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cafe zeenuts* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got my ZERO brought it off from Lawrence. Put in LT1364 in DAC dont have any other op amp available around to put in headphone section so just using stock which is NE5532p.

 First impression.

 Listening to Billie Jean from Thriller M.Jackson the sound is just awful, thin and no details at all. During intro first 10sec the snare drum sound very harsh, absolute no timbre. There is only a bit echo as the drummer hits the snare drum during the intro. 

 I have to say before i cooked my ibasso D1 trying to upgrade blackgate caps the D1 sounds way better using LTC 6241HV in DAC, AD797 in L/R and buffer bypassed. Snare drum was tight and is control with plenty of timbre. Abundance of echo during intro.

 I dont have headphone amp at this stage so i cant comment on how the DAC sounds using line out. Will pick a a LD MKV from CHINA when i head over there next week for a holiday. 

 I'm letting it burn in now will check back at 50hr mark to see if there is any improvement. For its price i didnt expect to much from it._

 

Ask anyone here, and they will tell you that critical listening right out of the box is completely unrevealing.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also, the DAC Opamp changed to LT1364 and not changing the headphone board Opamps will sound like Poo. Better to leave in the OPA2604 until you get some more time on the clock and more Opamps.


----------



## SLUSHIE

So mine simply isn't working.

 I've tried my pc, my ps2, and a DVD player and it didn't work with any.

 When I press the headphone button and the green light comes on, the other 2 blue lights pretty much turn all the way off. I'm thinking thats kind of a problem...


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ask anyone here, and they will tell you that critical listening right out of the box is completely unrevealing.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Also, the DAC Opamp changed to LT1364 and not changing the headphone board Opamps will sound like Poo. Better to leave in the OPA2604 until you get some more time on the clock and more Opamps._

 

I found the same thing. It sounded awful at first then it got better, much better! The stock op amps in the headphone amp sounded crap! Definitely change them when you can. It does take a while to sound better but its worth it.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SLUSHIE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So mine simply isn't working.

 I've tried my pc, my ps2, and a DVD player and it didn't work with any.

 When I press the headphone button and the green light comes on, the other 2 blue lights pretty much turn all the way off. I'm thinking thats kind of a problem..._

 

Email Lawrence and tell him what is going on. He has trouble shooting steps that may fix the problem. The blue lights going off will most likely mean something to him. Good luck!!


----------



## Seba

My Zero has arrived to Finland. It will probably go to next week when I can collect my dac (again) from customs.


----------



## cafe zeenuts

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ask anyone here, and they will tell you that critical listening right out of the box is completely unrevealing.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also, the DAC Opamp changed to LT1364 and not changing the headphone board Opamps will sound like Poo. Better to leave in the OPA2604 until you get some more time on the clock and more Opamps._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I found the same thing. It sounded awful at first then it got better, much better! The stock op amps in the headphone amp sounded crap! Definitely change them when you can. It does take a while to sound better but its worth it._

 

Yeah i know the ZERO DAC needs time to burn in, i was just giving my first impression out of the box thats all. I also agree with you guys that the stock opamp in the headphone board are crap and should be change if anyone plan to use the headphone out. 

 I going to get a LD MK V or IVse in china when i go there next week. So i have no plan to upgrade the opamp in the headphone board. 

 BTW, Penchum, have you had a chance to try 2 x AD797 on browndog in L-channel and 2 x AD797 on browndog in R-channel in the headphone board?

 i read a while back that you have got them. So total of four AD797s in headphone board, they definitely fit thats for sure. 
 I dont have enough to try myself only have 2 x AD797 on browndog.


----------



## davve

My zero is on its way and i have some LT Opamps. LT1361CN8, 1361CN8#PBF, 1364CN8#PBF, 1469IN8#PBF. Wich can i use in the headphone section and wich one in DAC?


----------



## Andreas_D

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dac / Amp :

 LT1361 + LT1469 DAC=good, phone=good

 LT1361 + LT1364 DAC=good, phone=great

 LT1364 + LT1469 DAC=great, phone=great

 LT1364 + LT1361 DAC=great, phone=great

 LT1469 + LT1364 DAC=good, phone =good

 LT1469 + LT1361 DAC=great, phone=great
_

 

 This is what Penchum said on the first page... 

 I'm also interested in this problem, if you could give some details about sound signiture of these opamps.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cafe zeenuts* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah i know the ZERO DAC needs time to burn in, i was just giving my first impression out of the box thats all. I also agree with you guys that the stock opamp in the headphone board are crap and should be change if anyone plan to use the headphone out. 

 I going to get a LD MK V or IVse in china when i go there next week. So i have no plan to upgrade the opamp in the headphone board. 

 BTW, Penchum, have you had a chance to try 2 x AD797 on browndog in L-channel and 2 x AD797 on browndog in R-channel in the headphone board?

 i read a while back that you have got them. So total of four AD797s in headphone board, they definitely fit thats for sure. 
 I dont have enough to try myself only have 2 x AD797 on browndog._

 

Well, that was the plan, but there isn't enough physical space for the adapters, so we're stuck with single (dual) Opamps. So far, the "winner" in the headphone board has been the LT1469s. Worth looking into for sure.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My zero is on its way and i have some LT Opamps. LT1361CN8, 1361CN8#PBF, 1364CN8#PBF, 1469IN8#PBF. Wich can i use in the headphone section and wich one in DAC? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Give the LT1364 in the DAC and LT1469s in the headphone board a try. This seems to be a well liked combination.


----------



## Trapper32

My Zero arrived today and is burning in for the next little while.....Couldn't resist though and right now the mids are great, bass little weak and the highs very harsh...Looking forward to hearing it once it settles in.....and with the opamps replaced


----------



## dantztiludrop

I'm sorry if this question has been repeated multiple times (have you tried searching this thread for "opamps" or "LT"?....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), but for someone who is about to receive their Zero & has no opamps whatsoever....what would you suggest? I'm planning to get a handful from linear.com (that is where people have been getting their LT's from, right?), such as LT1469, LT1361, LT1364. Any others recommended from them as long as I'm ordering? Also, did someone mention earlier on about free samples from them...or am I just out in my own little world!?

 Where else should I be ordering from for "must-have" opamps?

 Thanks everybody for all of the help & info you provide....even if the thread gets to be a little overwhelming
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dantztiludrop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm sorry if this question has been repeated multiple times (have you tried searching this thread for "opamps" or "LT"?....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), but for someone who is about to receive their Zero & has no opamps whatsoever....what would you suggest? I'm planning to get a handful from linear.com (that is where people have been getting their LT's from, right?), such as LT1469, LT1361, LT1364. Any others recommended from them as long as I'm ordering? Also, did someone mention earlier on about free samples from them...or am I just out in my own little world!?

 Where else should I be ordering from for "must-have" opamps?

 Thanks everybody for all of the help & info you provide....even if the thread gets to be a little overwhelming
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










!_

 

I think two of each of those three will get you going great! Order the samples.
 They take about five to seven days to arrive.


----------



## dantztiludrop

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think two of each of those three will get you going great! Order the samples.
 They take about five to seven days to arrive. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

When you say "samples", does that mean something different than the ones being sold @ linear.com?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dantztiludrop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When you say "samples", does that mean something different than the ones being sold @ linear.com?_

 

They have the order samples link on each Opamps page, which adds them to your cart, then you check out and give them your information. TaDa! They come in the mail.


----------



## cafe zeenuts

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, that was the plan, but there isn't enough physical space for the adapters, so we're stuck with single (dual) Opamps. So far, the "winner" in the headphone board has been the LT1469s. Worth looking into for sure. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

There is heaps of space in there unless your version is different to my. I took a few photos with my only 2 x AD797 on browndog.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cafe zeenuts* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is heaps of space in there unless your version is different to my. I took a few photos with my only 2 x AD797 on browndog.








_

 

Ow Poop! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My adapters are as wide as deep. They don't fit! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Guess I'll have to find a couple like yours then! Got a link or something for all of us? Thanks man! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Here is a pic of mine. You can see the problem. Maybe I can modify it. More later...


----------



## cafe zeenuts

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ow Poop! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 My adapters are as wide as deep. They don't fit! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Guess I'll have to find a couple like yours then! Got a link or something for all of us? Thanks man! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You can buy Single-to-dual Op-AMP Adapter - DIP version from (browndog) cimarrontechnology.com Single-to-dual Op-AMP Adapter - DIP version (p/n 021001) - 021001

 Then solder ic socket to the adapter yourself, ic socket you can buy from radioshack. 

 Parts you need are 2 x Single-to-dual Op-AMP Adapter - DIP version and 4 x IC socket DIP. 

 If you are too lazy to do all this i believe "HiFlight" a member on this forum sells them already made for about $15 pm him for exact price.

 Cheers


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cafe zeenuts* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can buy Single-to-dual Op-AMP Adapter - DIP version from (browndog) cimarrontechnology.com Single-to-dual Op-AMP Adapter - DIP version (p/n 021001) - 021001

 Then solder ic socket to the adapter yourself, ic socket you can buy from radioshack. 

 Parts you need are 2 x Single-to-dual Op-AMP Adapter - DIP version and 4 x IC socket DIP. 

 If you are too lazy to do all this i believe "HiFlight" a member on this forum sells them already made for about $15 pm him for exact price.

 Cheers_

 

Thanks! It just didn't occur to me that more than one size adapter was out there. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you try the AD797s in the headphone amp, keep an eye on them for the first few minutes and make sure they don't heat way up too quickly, or if the highs sound funky. They didn't work well in the DAC at all. It sure would be nice if they did work in the headphone amp! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I seem to have enough (with different adapters) to pull it off later.


----------



## SLUSHIE

Does the amp require 220V to operate? I notice it says that on the back. It comes with a US power plug, so I'm assuming they are made to operate at 120V.


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SLUSHIE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does the amp require 220V to operate? I notice it says that on the back. It comes with a US power plug, so I'm assuming they are made to operate at 120V._

 

Mine came with the appropriate US plug but its also switchable from 115 or220 on the back.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cafe zeenuts* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is heaps of space in there unless your version is different to my. I took a few photos with my only 2 x AD797 on browndog.








_

 

How does it sound with the ad797's? Do you have them in he dac as you only showed one set installed in the pics?.


----------



## cafe zeenuts

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How does it sound with the ad797's? Do you have them in he dac as you only showed one set installed in the pics?._

 

Yeah i only got one set so i couldnt try it in the headphone board i just put it in to take the pics to show there is room inside. 

 I have not try it in the DAC i believe Penchum has, i think he said it didnt work to well.


----------



## cafe zeenuts

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks! It just didn't occur to me that more than one size adapter was out there. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you try the AD797s in the headphone amp, keep an eye on them for the first few minutes and make sure they don't heat way up too quickly, or if the highs sound funky. They didn't work well in the DAC at all. It sure would be nice if they did work in the headphone amp! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I seem to have enough (with different adapters) to pull it off later. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hey Penchum let us know on how AD797s sound in the headphone board when you get a chance with the new adapters.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cafe zeenuts* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah i only got one set so i couldnt try it in the headphone board i just put it in to take the pics to show there is room inside. 

 I have not try it in the DAC i believe Penchum has, i think he said it didnt work to well.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeh i wanted to try the opa627 in the headphone amp, but since i discovered the set up i'm using, i'm not going to bother.


----------



## SLUSHIE

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trapper32* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine came with the appropriate US plug but its also switchable from 115 or220 on the back._

 

Well darn. Mine doesn't.

 I suppose I better go find a step up transformer.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SLUSHIE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does the amp require 220V to operate? I notice it says that on the back. It comes with a US power plug, so I'm assuming they are made to operate at 120V._

 

Can you take a pic of the back end and post it for us too see?
 Thanks!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeh i wanted to try the opa627 in the headphone amp, but since i discovered the set up i'm using, i'm not going to bother._

 

I forgot, or missed something. What combination did you finally go with?
 Thanks!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cafe zeenuts* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah i only got one set so i couldnt try it in the headphone board i just put it in to take the pics to show there is room inside. 

 I have not try it in the DAC i believe Penchum has, i think he said it didnt work to well.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

On the previous page, I put a pic of the adapters I have for you too see. When I tried the AD797s in the DAC, the highs were really strange. Like they were uncontrolled or something. I liked everything else greatly, but those highs were so not proper. Then I was told and I looked it up, that they weren't unity gain stable, and this was the cause of the strange highs. They also got very hot. So I took them out of the testing loop.


----------



## SLUSHIE




----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SLUSHIE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_



_

 

If I'm not mistaken (and I may be) doesn't that mean 220 is the maximum voltage it can take? Shouldn't this work with his 110V? Someone?


----------



## charley phogg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I'm not mistaken (and I may be) doesn't that mean 220 is the maximum voltage it can take? Shouldn't this work with his 110V? Someone?_

 


 To me, thats saying its strictly a european version. U.S. you should see 110 or 120 at 60hz. Usually when they are switchable it will list both ratings. I would check into this further before trying a step-up transformer, as I don't think the transformer will change the frequency, I could be wrong.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *charley phogg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To me, thats saying its strictly a european version. U.S. you should see 110 or 120 at 60hz. Usually when they are switchable it will list both ratings. I would check into this further before trying a step-up transformer, as I don't think the transformer will change the frequency, I could be wrong._

 

I tried to find that square inside the square symbol on the web, but had no luck. He should at least email the seller and inquire about it, before spending any money or trying it for the heck of it!


----------



## Fremen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I tried to find that square inside the square symbol on the web, but had no luck. He should at least email the seller and inquire about it, before spending any money or trying it for the heck of it!_

 

This symbol means Class 2 electrical equipement (double isolation). This is not related to the voltage input range.
 For equipments that are made for both 110 and 220V without external switch (usually low power equipments) you should read something like "100-240V~ 50/60Hz"

 PS: "24-Jan-2008 France Arrived and is being processed. "


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fremen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This symbol means Class 2 electrical equipement (double isolation). This is not related to the voltage input range.
 For equipments that are made for both 110 and 220V without external switch (usually low power equipments) you should read something like "100-240V~ 50/60Hz"

 PS: "24-Jan-2008 France Arrived and is being processed. " 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks for the information. It actually makes sense! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Glad yours is on it's way!


----------



## fault151

has anyone on here compared the zero to the Beresford TC-7510 MK6/3 DAC Digital to Analog Converter. Im very tempted to get one. Iv heard its meant to be the best dac for the £100 price range. Theres loads of threads about it and comments of users who have swapped their £500+ dacs for this one.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_has anyone on here compared the zero to the Beresford TC-7510 MK6/3 DAC Digital to Analog Converter. Im very tempted to get one. Iv heard its meant to be the best dac for the £100 price range. Theres loads of threads about it and comments of users who have swapped their £500+ dacs for this one._

 

As far as I know, there hasn't been a direct comparison. There was a "specification" comparison way back, and the Zero has better specs, but Opamp changing has an impact on those things, so it is hard to draw a conclusion now.


----------



## fault151

Id love to hear from someone who has heard them both. I may just purchase one, test them aginst each other and maybe keep hold of the one i like best.


----------



## Tsukasa

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fremen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This symbol means Class 2 electrical equipement (double isolation). This is not related to the voltage input range.
 For equipments that are made for both 110 and 220V without external switch (usually low power equipments) you should read something like "100-240V~ 50/60Hz"

 PS: "24-Jan-2008 France Arrived and is being processed. " 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hehe I'm at the same point. Vite Vite


----------



## dantztiludrop

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fremen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PS: "24-Jan-2008 France Arrived and is being processed. " 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I received mine today! 8 days from the point of my 1st contact with Lawrence...from China to Oregon. As a matter of fact, it was a good week of waiting for Mr. Postman...received my D2000s 5 days after purchase; my LD MKIII came on day 7. These were all bought last Friday, so they made that good of time even with being bought the day before the weekend! I'm a pretty happy guy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ! Oh yeah, received the Chaintech AV-710 two days after purchase from NY to OR via regular post...what the heck's that about! The timing of the shipments has been perfect too...I've added ~ 1 component per day with the previous one having that much burn-in ahead of the next, which has really allowed me to see the evolution of my new system one step at a time.*as he blathers on (& on) with just way too much excitement to be allowed out in public*

 Alright, I need to get off Head-Fi long enough to play with the new toys.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dantztiludrop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I received mine today! 8 days from the point of my 1st contact with Lawrence...from China to Oregon. As a matter of fact, it was a good week of waiting for Mr. Postman...received my D2000s 5 days after purchase; my LD MKIII came on day 7. These were all bought last Friday, so they made that good of time even with being bought the day before the weekend! I'm a pretty happy guy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ! Oh yeah, received the Chaintech AV-710 two days after purchase from NY to OR via regular post...what the heck's that about! The timing of the shipments has been perfect too...I've added ~ 1 component per day with the previous one having that much burn-in ahead of the next, which has really allowed me to see the evolution of my new system one step at a time.*as he blathers on (& on) with just way too much excitement to be allowed out in public*

 Alright, I need to get off Head-Fi long enough to play with the new toys._

 

I think Christmas came late for you!


----------



## ironman64

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dantztiludrop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I received mine today! 8 days from the point of my 1st contact with Lawrence...from China to Oregon. As a matter of fact, it was a good week of waiting for Mr. Postman...received my D2000s 5 days after purchase; my LD MKIII came on day 7. These were all bought last Friday, so they made that good of time even with being bought the day before the weekend! I'm a pretty happy guy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ! Oh yeah, received the Chaintech AV-710 two days after purchase from NY to OR via regular post...what the heck's that about! The timing of the shipments has been perfect too...I've added ~ 1 component per day with the previous one having that much burn-in ahead of the next, which has really allowed me to see the evolution of my new system one step at a time.*as he blathers on (& on) with just way too much excitement to be allowed out in public*

 Alright, I need to get off Head-Fi long enough to play with the new toys._

 

Congrats! Mine arrived this afternoon while I attended the Dallas Head-Fi Meet. Needless to say, it has been a very good day. Currently using it as a dac. A little on the warm/dark side, so I'm interested to see if or how it opens up more.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ironman64* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congrats! Mine arrived this afternoon while I attended the Dallas Head-Fi Meet. Needless to say, it has been a very good day. Currently using it as a dac. A little on the warm/dark side, so I'm interested to see if or how it opens up more._

 

Congratulations to you Ironman! How was the meet?


----------



## Gaco

*Gasping for air*
 I can't believe I actually just took FIVE HOURS to read through all 127 pages! I can't recommend this to anyone on the noob level like me as 80% of it was chit-chatting on technical yadayada which I didn't understand much of anyway 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm looking for my first headphone amplifier to my all new Senn HD600. As far as I can understand the default build-in opamps are not so great compared to the rest of the package huh? I can't imagine myself ever trying to mod my headphone amplifer so can you get this Lawrence dude to use some other parts? All your talk about various opamp parts in this thread just went straight over the head, it doesn't make any sense to me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Zero really seems like a solid choice for someone first headamp and I especially appreciate all the input/output functions. I will primarily be using it like X-Fi coax -> Zero DAC/Amp -> Senn HD650 headphones - given that the Zero can function as a DAC and amplifier at once? I really hope you can answer my questions


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gaco* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Gasping for air*
 I can't believe I actually just took FIVE HOURS to read through all 127 pages! I can't recommend this to anyone on the noob level like me as 80% of it was chit-chatting on technical yadayada which I didn't understand much of anyway 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm looking for my first headphone amplifier to my all new Senn HD600. As far as I can understand the default build-in opamps are not so great compared to the rest of the package huh? I can't imagine myself ever trying to mod my headphone amplifer so can you get this Lawrence dude to use some other parts? All your talk about various opamp parts in this thread just went straight over the head, it doesn't make any sense to me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Zero really seems like a solid choice for someone first headamp and I especially appreciate all the input/output functions. I will primarily be using it like X-Fi coax -> Zero DAC/Amp -> Senn HD650 headphones - given that the Zero can function as a DAC and amplifier at once? I really hope you can answer my questions 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hi Gaco!
 Lets see, well, the Zero does have a nice built-in headphone amp. With stock Opamps in the Zero and after break-in, the sound is pretty ok coming out to the headphones. But, it is easy to upgrade the Opamps to something better, and that is what you have been trying to read. No problem. It won't take long to "understand" what is going on. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Zero can function as a DAC, and at the press of a button, switch to headphones. It can't do both at the same time, which, when you think about it, is ok. You can't really listen to both at the same time anyway. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Your X-Fi will work great as a source, and we generally recommend lossless files, or MP3's at 320kbps.

 I'm pretty sure Lawrence will (for a price) upgrade the DAC Opamp at your request. I don't know if he offers any upgrade Opamps for the headphone board or not, but you should ask him via email.

 Using the Zero as a first amp does have it's advantages. Later on, you could buy a tube headphone amp and feed it with the Zero's DAC! If it was a tube amp, then you could listen to "tube" sound or solid state sound directly from the Zero's headphone amp. This gives you options, which is always nice!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Let us know how things are going!!


----------



## charley phogg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Zero can function as a DAC, and at the press of a button, switch to headphones. It can't do both at the same time, which, when you think about it, is ok. You can't really listen to both at the same time anyway._

 

 I don't have a Zero but this confuses me. When you use the headphone amp on the Zero, isn't the signal traveling through the DAC first, and then through the headphone amp, so in essence you are using both and just can't hook up the dac to another amp and use the Zero's headphone amp?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *charley phogg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't have a Zero but this confuses me. When you use the headphone amp on the Zero, isn't the signal traveling through the DAC first, and then through the headphone amp, so in essence you are using both and just can't hook up the dac to another amp and use the Zero's headphone amp?_

 

Not actually. The DAC output is L + R RCA's on the back of the Zero. When you first power up, this is where the signal is going, which would be for an external amp of somekind. If you want to listen to headphones with the Zero, then you plug in on the front of the Zero and press the Pre-amp/Phones button and this diverts the signal to the built-in headphone amp and out to your phones. Does that help any?


----------



## Gaco

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Gaco!
 Lets see, well, the Zero does have a nice built-in headphone amp. With stock Opamps in the Zero and after break-in, the sound is pretty ok coming out to the headphones. But, it is easy to upgrade the Opamps to something better, and that is what you have been trying to read. No problem. It won't take long to "understand" what is going on. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The Zero can function as a DAC, and at the press of a button, switch to headphones. It can't do both at the same time, which, when you think about it, is ok. You can't really listen to both at the same time anyway. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Your X-Fi will work great as a source, and we generally recommend lossless files, or MP3's at 320kbps.

 I'm pretty sure Lawrence will (for a price) upgrade the DAC Opamp at your request. I don't know if he offers any upgrade Opamps for the headphone board or not, but you should ask him via email.

 Using the Zero as a first amp does have it's advantages. Later on, you could buy a tube headphone amp and feed it with the Zero's DAC! If it was a tube amp, then you could listen to "tube" sound or solid state sound directly from the Zero's headphone amp. This gives you options, which is always nice!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Let us know how things are going!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Aaah ok. At first I thought it could be both at the same time which would truly make it versitile when taking it and my headphones outside my home. Doesn't the Headamp Pico actually act as both simultaniously? Do you know how the two compare in DAC/Amp quality? I started out just looking for an amp but actually if I can get a really good sounding amp + build-in DAC and several input/output to a fair price that would be nice, but you can have it all I guess 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I have also considered the iBasso D1 because of it's extremely many input/output options but having read some user reaction my impression is that the audio quality doesn't quite hold up to Pico or Zero for that matter. Oh well..


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gaco* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Aaah ok. At first I thought it could be both at the same time which would truly make it versitile when taking it and my headphones outside my home. Doesn't the Headamp Pico actually act as both simultaniously? Do you know how the two compare in DAC/Amp quality? I started out just looking for an amp but actually if I can get a really good sounding amp + build-in DAC and several input/output to a fair price that would be nice, but you can have it all I guess 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I have also considered the iBasso D1 because of it's extremely many input/output options but having read some user reaction my impression is that the audio quality doesn't quite hold up to Pico or Zero for that matter. Oh well.._

 

I think you missunderstood. You can use it like this: computer/cdplayer -> optical/coaxial -> Zero dac/amp -> headphones. This way, it will be used as both your dac and your amp.


----------



## Gaco

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think you missunderstood. You can use it like this: computer/cdplayer -> optical/coaxial -> Zero dac/amp -> headphones. This way, it will be used as both your dac and your amp._

 

Then I simply don't know how to understand this following statement 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Zero can function as a DAC, and at the press of a button, switch to headphones. It can't do both at the same time, which, when you think about it, is ok._


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gaco* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Aaah ok. At first I thought it could be both at the same time which would truly make it versitile when taking it and my headphones outside my home. Doesn't the Headamp Pico actually act as both simultaniously? Do you know how the two compare in DAC/Amp quality? I started out just looking for an amp but actually if I can get a really good sounding amp + build-in DAC and several input/output to a fair price that would be nice, but you can have it all I guess 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I have also considered the iBasso D1 because of it's extremely many input/output options but having read some user reaction my impression is that the audio quality doesn't quite hold up to Pico or Zero for that matter. Oh well.._

 

That's ok. I guess it depends on whether you want portable or not. Also, the Pico Amp/Dac USB isn't out yet, so you'd be on a waiting list. The iBasso D1 was popular, but I think portable DACs/Amp were somewhat of a fad for a while. Many killed theirs by trying to solder in different capacitors!
 We are very certain that the Zero outperforms the portables, and costs way less as well. The Opamp rolling is just icing on the cake for later.


----------



## biph911

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gaco* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Then I simply don't know how to understand this following statement 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

He means that it can't function as a standalone DAC for a separate pre-amp/headphone amp while it is driving headphones on its own internal amplifier.


----------



## Gaco

Oh I understand then. biph911 is correct right Penchum? Makes sense to me now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I would be very grateful if you could name some of the components (opamps that is?) that would be an improvement to the standard Zero so I could ask Lawrence if he could make me such a custom device. I won't be buying another amp for a pretty long time so I might as well pay a some extra for it getting just right from the beginning and as I said I'm not really keen on modding my Zero once it arrives


----------



## Gaco

No proposals for opamp upgrades? Haha you've all been basically blabbering on about good opamp combo to upgrade the zero with for approximately 120 pages or something and now you can't name a few for me? What


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gaco* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No proposals for opamp upgrades? Haha you've all been basically blabbering on about good opamp combo to upgrade the zero with for approximately 120 pages or something and now you can't name a few for me? What 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

I don't know about the others, I missed it totally! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Lawrence has a sheet he can email to you, of Opamps he sells. It has descriptions of them too. We've been looking at Linear Techs stuff for a while, and Lawrence doesn't sell any of those (I don't think), but he does have some nice ones like the OPA627s.
 Just drop him an email and ask him what Opamps can be upgraded if you purchase the Zero. He'll send you all the info.


----------



## edguetzow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gaco* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No proposals for opamp upgrades? Haha you've all been basically blabbering on about good opamp combo to upgrade the zero with for approximately 120 pages or something and now you can't name a few for me? What 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 


 Well, for starters, you could look at the Original post (#1) of Penchum's as it has been updated to list all the opamp combos that he has tried.


----------



## jamato8

Gee Gaco, people sometimes take a little time to respond and this is Sunday, well in the US and gee do you have to say "what the f!@%" and refer to the dialog as blabbering?


----------



## biph911

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't know about the others, I missed it totally! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Lawrence has a sheet he can email to you, of Opamps he sells. It has descriptions of them too. We've been looking at Linear Techs stuff for a while, and Lawrence doesn't sell any of those (I don't think), but he does have some nice ones like the OPA627s.
 Just drop him an email and ask him what Opamps can be upgraded if you purchase the Zero. He'll send you all the info. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Here is what he e-mailed me when I asked him:

  Quote:


 I am highly recommended OPA627.
 See below:

 The op-amps used are generally of poor quality, corrupting the analogue signal, having a disastrous effect on the sonic capabilities of the CD player. The effects are a smearing of detail, reduced dynamics, congestion of instruments on complex music passages causing a mass of sound, rather than a spacious, airy, sound stage. The quality of the mid-high frequencies is particularly poor, where the mid-band is brittle and aggressive, and higher frequencies are edgy, cold and fatiguing to listen to.

 The following op-amps produce the poorest results; NE5534, NJM2114, NE5532, NJM4558, NJM4560, AD711, AD712, LM833.

 The performance of op-amps from different manufacturers varies considerably. Therefore, selecting a single type of op-amp to meet the parameters required for the analogue output stage involved analysing data sheets and conducting many listening tests.

 The important parameters for sound quality are high speed (or bandwidth) low THD, fast settling, and low input noise. The most natural and musical sounding were FET-Input types as opposed to bipolar.

 Burr Brown OPA 627 BP(single, ceramic) on Browndog adaptor 
 Price: US$28 each (Total US$56 for 2 singles) Browndog adaptor $5 Total: $61
 Comment: Two words sum this chip up........ "absolute class" This is single chip and it was necessary to fit two single channel 627's onto a single to dual Browndog adaptor which Adapts two single-channel DIP-8 op-amps to a dual DIP-8 pinout. These 2 single channel op amps absolutely trounced anything that had gone before them ..... the width of the soundstage, the clarity and the sheer presence make this my choice of op amp for use in the Chiarra without a shadow of a doubt. The sound is just so "clean", so "natural", so "musical" and so "detailed" with the 627's on board. The Burr Brown 627 "is" headphone heaven....... absolute class act.


 LM4562(dual, ceramic)
 Price: US$30.
 Comment : A "Very" revealing chip, sound similar to the OPA627 but puncher around the edges. I found this chip gave out "way" too much information for my liking. It is analytical to the point that certain pieces of music can become impossible to listen to, especially bad recordings, it reproduces every last detail / imperfection with microscopic accuracy which, at times, can be detrimental to the overall enjoyment of the music. For those that love a warts and all insight into the music then this is the star of the show but it may not be to everyone liking. It may be an op amp which can beat OPA627. 

 Burr Brown OPA2604 (dual, ceramic)
 Price: US$10.
 Comment: OPA2604 sounded very warm, very laid back and very easy to listen to but slightly veiled in the detail department. "Chocolaty" and "syrupy" though a good easy to listen to Op amp., This may just be what the doctor ordered for those who like a laid back, thick, chocolaty, easy going and easy to listen to sound.

 Linear techonolgy LT1057(dual, ceramic)
 Price: US$20,
 Comment: Without a shadow of a doubt this op amp is the star of the the centry. Easy to listen to, easy to pick out every last detail and ever so natural. There was an ethereal quality to the sound that only ever heard on high quality loudspeaker based systems. It's hard to put what this op amp does into words but listening to the sound with it on board is as close to headphone heaven. Very analytical.

 Linear techonolgy LT1028(single, ceramic) on Browndog adaptor 
 Price: US$15 each (Total US$30 for 2 singles) Browndog adaptor $5 Total: $35
 Comment: It provided very similar results to the LT-1057 but each component of the sound was treated to an additional air of realism and effortless delivery that was immediately evident.

 Linear techonolgy LT1028(single, metal) on Browndog adaptor
 Price: US$25 each (Total US$50 for 2 singles) Browndog adaptor $5 Total: $52
 Comment: It provided very similar results to the LT-1028 but the sound is ten times better LT-1028 with their punch , detail , range of frequency ….. especially the naturality.


 Analog device AD797 (single, ceramic)
 Price: US$25 each (Total US$50 for 2 singles) Browndog adaptor $5 Total: $52
 Comment : Smooth, highly analytical, warm, uncoloured, laid back yet all detail is present (and then some) Very electrostatic quality to the sound with that super solid state bass underpinning the proceedings without overwhelming them. Start and stops are followed by an inky black silence and the timbre of the drums is very realistic indeed. Something that is very evident with this op amp is it's inherent ability to provide accurate timing which I really do like! There is no bass overhang, the drums start and stop as they should and, as a result, the timing is pretty much spot on. This is like listening to music with a stethoscope with the metronome ticking away in the background but it also adds a touch of valium to make the experience very bearable and extremely enjoyable.

 Analog device DY2000 (dual, ceramic)
 Price: US$20
 Comment : These chips makes the sound more valve like than the tube sound ever did if that can possibly make any sense! Melodious, slightly laid back and warm yet it brings out every last bit of detail from a recording. Overall a very nice sound. A kind of hybrid valve and solid state mix which gives the best of both worlds. Nice smooth valve like mids and highs with lovely solid state bass oomph . This is the Op amp for those who prefer a valve like sound but would also like a solid state bottom end delivery. With this Op amp you can have your cake and eat it. Smooth as silk.

 Analog device DY2000 (dual, metal)
 Price: US$35.
 Comment : It provided very similar results to the DY2000 ceramic but the sound is ten times better with their punch , detail , range of frequency ….. especially the naturality.
 Thank you very much !

 Best regards,
 Lawrence


----------



## Gaco

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Gee Gaco, people sometimes take a little time to respond and this is Sunday, well in the US and gee do you have to say "what the f!@%" and refer to the dialog as blabbering?_

 

I tried to come off as sarcastic in the friendly humorous way but I guess I came off as "impatient litte biatch"-sarcastic instead, sorry 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was technical blabbering to me, if I continue to learn about head-fi as much as I have in the past week I may come back soon and it would all make perfect sense 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll try and email Lawrence.. still if you have any personal favorites for opamps do let me know =)

 BTW Thanks biph911 very helpful. I remember I saw that a while back but I couldn't really keep track of 128 pages hehe.. sorry if I'm coming off as too importunate, it's just my kind of my style I don't mean any offense


----------



## jamato8

The learning curve is tough at first but then things start to click and then you can enjoy it more. It just takes a while and requires doing some investigation.


----------



## charley phogg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not actually. The DAC output is L + R RCA's on the back of the Zero. When you first power up, this is where the signal is going, which would be for an external amp of somekind. If you want to listen to headphones with the Zero, then you plug in on the front of the Zero and press the Pre-amp/Phones button and this diverts the signal to the built-in headphone amp and out to your phones. Does that help any?_

 

 Yes, thanks for the explanation. I guess I have always assumed that since it had a DAC on board the amp would use it.... we all know what assuming gets you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## magnetiq

quick question, can you use the RCAs to connect to the source and still use it as a headphone amp?


----------



## ptiJean

<removed>


----------



## Gaco

Just another question, how do you change the opamps? Does it involve advance stuff like soldering or is it just more like changing RAM on a PC motherboard plug n' play?


----------



## ptiJean

<removed>


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *charley phogg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, thanks for the explanation. I guess I have always assumed that since it had a DAC on board the amp would use it.... we all know what assuming gets you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





._

 

Ya, my favorite is ASSuming.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magnetiq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_quick question, can you use the RCAs to connect to the source and still use it as a headphone amp?_

 

Nope, sorry. The RCA's are DAC output only. There is no by-pass. So this makes the Zero a "digital only" on inputs, which fits the majority of user's needs. Have a good one!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gaco* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just another question, how do you change the opamps? Does it involve advance stuff like soldering or is it just more like changing RAM on a PC motherboard plug n' play?
 snip_

 

The Opamps are in sockets, so you pull one out, push one in. Very easy.


----------



## Penchum

Thank you for fixing this! and lets get on talking about the Zero's!


----------



## Gaco

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Opamps are in sockets, so you pull one out, push one in. Very easy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Oh... :/

 Damnit I should payed more attention to your extensive talk about the opamps, didn't know it was that easy!!

 Btw is the opamps used in the DAC, amplifying or pre-amp process? Man I truly an a noob at this still


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ptiJean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_<removed>_

 

Thanks very much ptiJean! PM me and let me try to help with your situation, Ok? Thanks!!


----------



## Gaco

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks very much ptiJean! PM me and let me try to help with your situation, Ok? Thanks!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You're a nice guy, I respect that!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gaco* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh... :/

 Damnit I should payed more attention to your extensive talk about the opamps, didn't know it was that easy!!

 Btw is the opamps used in the DAC, amplifying or pre-amp process? Man I truly an a noob at this still 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Actually, I'm not sure which "term" is used, because some of them have a pretty high output. I'm going to guess pre-amp process. Can someone correct me, if needed?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gaco* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You're a nice guy, I respect that!_

 

Thanks! I PM'd you too.


----------



## Gaco

Oh forgot to ask how many opamp slots are there? Just two right? Otherwise the amount of combinations would explode exponentially, that wouldn't be nice =/


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gaco* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh forgot to ask how many opamp slots are there? Just two right? Otherwise the amount of combinations would explode exponentially, that wouldn't be nice =/_

 

There is one Opamp for the DAC section. There are two Opamps in the Headphone board, L&R. We discovered some time ago that changing the DAC Opamp will change the sound of the DAC output and the headphone output.
 If you change Opamps only in the headphone board, it will change only the output at the headphone jack.

 So, when I was trying different combinations, I was indeed trying different combinations. That chart represents the better part of a long day! But, I think it will help some folks.


----------



## Gaco

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is one Opamp for the DAC section. There are two Opamps in the Headphone board, L&R. We discovered some time ago that changing the DAC Opamp will change the sound of the DAC output and the headphone output.
 If you change Opamps only in the headphone board, it will change only the output at the headphone jack.

 So, when I was trying different combinations, I was indeed trying different combinations. That chart represents the better part of a long day! But, I think it will help some folks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ok. But since your chart shows combinations of two opamps at once, one DAC one Amp, you must have held one constant on the headphone board if it had two slots?


----------



## biph911

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gaco* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok. But since your chart shows combinations of two opamps at once, one DAC one Amp, you must have held one constant on the headphone board if it had two slots?_

 

The two on the headphone board are identical since they are just L & R. If he shows LT1361 / LT1469, it means the DAC opamp is a single LT1361, and there are two LT1469s on the headphone board, one for each channel. 

 An exception would be the opa627 because it requires two opamps + an adapter to fill a single spot. I ordered two OPA627 + browndog adapter to replace the opamp on the DAC.


----------



## Gaco

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *biph911* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The two on the headphone board are identical since they are just L & R. If he shows LT1361 / LT1469, it means the DAC opamp is a single LT1361, and there are two LT1469s on the headphone board, one for each channel. 

 An exception would be the opa627 because it requires two opamps + an adapter to fill a single spot. I ordered two OPA627 + browndog adapter to replace the opamp on the DAC._

 

That makes perfect sense.. thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I wonder why Lawrence present the OPA 627 like it's the best since sliced bread but Penchum gave it a rating of "only" good in all combinations. I know it might have something to do with personal taste and the headphones, but it doesn't make the choice easier for a n00b like me. I think Penchum used senn 650's when he tested, I wonder what Lawrence used..


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gaco* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That makes perfect sense.. thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yepper, it made for some serious swapping action!


----------



## Penchum

I have updated the review with better pics and changed the layout as well. If anyone has Opamp info for the chart, PM me and I'll add them in.
 Thanks!


----------



## biph911

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gaco* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wonder why Lawrence present the OPA 627 like it's the best since sliced bread but Penchum gave it a rating of "only" good in all combinations._

 

He actually rates the OPA627 as great on the DAC side in each combo. The OPA627 hasn't been used on the headphone side (yet).

  Quote:


 OPA627s + LT1469 DAC=great, phone=good

 OPA627s + LT1364 DAC=great, phone=great

 OPA627s + LT1361 DAC=great, phone=great

 OPA627s + LT1057 DAC=great, phone=good

 OPA627s + LM4562 DAC=great, phone=great


----------



## Gaco

Nice, I just got in touch with Lawrence. He tells me that he recommends the "Burr Brown OPA 627 BP(single, ceramic) on Browndog adaptor" for the headphone opamps, and I'll take his word for it.

 What about the DAC opamp, how would you rate the default, Penchum? On your chart you say everything goes good with OPA627, but since nothing goes "bad" or "great" either I don't know what to choose here. I could go with the standard I guess, but I really want the best I can get from the beginning since I probably won't ever mod the Zero again as I've mentioned 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 EDIT: Oh you just updated the chart with more combos for the OPA627, sweet! Gonna have a look now..


----------



## Gaco

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *biph911* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_He actually rates the OPA627 as great on the DAC side in each combo. The OPA627 hasn't been used on the headphone side (yet)._

 

Who is "he" I thought Penchum made the chart


----------



## Gaco

I wonder about this:

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *biph911* 
_Analog device DY2000 (dual, metal)
 Price: US$35.
 Comment : It provided very similar results to the DY2000 ceramic but the sound is ten times better with their punch , detail , range of frequency ….. especially the naturality._

 

- what is that? Doesn't sound like an opamp compoent? Worth buying?


----------



## biph911

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gaco* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Who is "he" I thought Penchum made the chart 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The "he" in that sentence is Penchum. Sorry for my errant pronoun usage
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Gaco

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *biph911* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The "he" in that sentence is Penchum. Sorry for my errant pronoun usage
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




._

 

What the.... did he just correct that or did I mis-read it the first time around? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So it looks like LO1469, LT1364 and LM4562 would be a good choice. I've emailed Lawrence back asking if he's got any of these in stock. Do you remember any differences between these three in particular Penchum?


----------



## davve

hello, my package has arrived to sweden. what does in transit mean?


----------



## dantztiludrop

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hello, my package has arrived to sweden. what does in transit mean?_

 

It means it's that much closer to your front door! Seriously though, "in transit" means "en route" or "in the process of transportation"....on its way.

 Should be soon....enjoy!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gaco* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What the.... did he just correct that or did I mis-read it the first time around? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So it looks like LO1469, LT1364 and LM4562 would be a good choice. I've emailed Lawrence back asking if he's got any of these in stock. Do you remember any differences between these three in particular Penchum?_

 

Ok, here we go... If you buy OPA627's on the dog, times 2 for the headphone board, this is going to cost like $122 at current Lawrence prices. That is too much I think! Since you don't have a Zero yet, and have no idea of the sound the default Opamps can give you (after burn-in), it is difficult to recommend you spend that much money on "untested to your ears" Opamps, for a $139 Zero. True? $122 vs $139....$122 vs $139.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Most here, who are using the OPA627s on the dog, are doing so in the DAC, not the headphone board. If you look at the chart, there are many "great" combinations and choices for the OPA627 in DAC, "others" in the headphone board.

 It is up to you, and please do what you feel is best, but remember the teeth in you wallet, they do bite! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Many folks here can help you find the LT Opamps after your Zero has arrived and you've had some "love" time.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hello, my package has arrived to sweden. what does in transit mean?_

 

davve, Hi! I'll be interested to hear how the Zero works with your DV! Keep us apprised!!


----------



## Gaco

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, here we go... If you buy OPA627's on the dog, times 2 for the headphone board, this is going to cost like $122 at current Lawrence prices. That is too much I think! Since you don't have a Zero yet, and have no idea of the sound the default Opamps can give you (after burn-in), it is difficult to recommend you spend that much money on "untested to your ears" Opamps, for a $139 Zero. True? $122 vs $139....$122 vs $139.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Most here, who are using the OPA627s on the dog, are doing so in the DAC, not the headphone board. If you look at the chart, there are many "great" combinations and choices for the OPA627 in DAC, "others" in the headphone board.

 It is up to you, and please do what you feel is best, but remember the teeth in you wallet, they do bite! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Many folks here can help you find the LT Opamps after your Zero has arrived and you've had some "love" time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I dunno man.. I just want it overwith or something 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wonder why haven't anyone tried the OPA627s on headphone, is it because of the extra price you'd have to pay for two or what?

 Ok I'll just throw the OPA627 on the DAC then, that seems to be the most normal, I can find more info on combos with that config it seems, and a lot cheaper also. On the headphones Lawrence offers the LT1057 which he says "Without a shadow of a doubt this op amp is the star of the the centry..." and so fourth (I think we all know this standard answer at this point - last cited on page 128) and the DY2000's which he also praised but I this OPA627/DY2000 combo is not on the chart so I dunno about it. Perhaps I should just go for the OPA627/LT1057, but then again they are only listed as "great/good" on the chart. Argh I don't know what to do! 

 At least I have the DAC opamp module pinned down now, I just need a couple of headphone opamps - though the three "great" in the chart is unavailable from Lawrence..


----------



## biph911

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gaco* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 At least I have the DAC opamp module pinned down now, I just need a couple of headphone opamps - though none of the three "great" in the chart is available from Lawrence.._

 

Just request samples from Linear Technology. Go to their website and look up the opamps in which you are interested.


----------



## Gaco

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *biph911* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just request samples from Linear Technology. Go to their website and look up the opamps in which you are interested._

 

I'll look into that, going to their website now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I just seem surprising that Lawrence is praising the LT1057 to such a great degree when Penchum just gave it a "good" rating. And it would cost me another set of shipping expenses plus possible VAT to get them seperately not from Lawrence. Oh well..


----------



## Gaco

I think that I remember Penchum declaring his love for the LT1364 specifically somewhere through the first 127 pages though I can't seem to find it anymore.

 Have anyone else tried the OPA627 / LT1364 combo other than Penchum? I'm considering to just take the default headphone opamps whatever they may be and then upgrading to the LT1364 later on.

 And Penchum if you by some stroke of luck remember this combo in particular do speak up


----------



## Gaco

I just ordered a Zero + OPA627 DAC for 241$ incl. shipping to Denmark. Wohoo I can't wait!

 I figured that I might find the purchase of upgrade headphone opamps more satisfactory if I can actually hear the difference at some point so I just went with the default ones. My Senn HD600 just arrived today so within the next week I'll probably begin using them directly on my X-Fi, meaning that I'll notice the Zero amp difference as well. I realize it may take anywhere from a week to little over a month, but in either case I'm sure it'll be worth the wait


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gaco* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll look into that, going to their website now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just seem surprising that Lawrence is praising the LT1057 to such a great degree when Penchum just gave it a "good" rating. And it would cost me another set of shipping expenses plus possible VAT to get them seperately not from Lawrence. Oh well.._

 

IIRC, the list isn't Lawrence list, it is an op-amp list for an entire different amp. He wrote that it was his "cheat" list, since it's not really his doing, nothing wrong with that though

 It's not sure that the op-amps in that list will work well with the Zero, and as Penchum already have written, AD797 doesn't work well at all.


----------



## Fremen

Here it is!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 In front of me and burning in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 It's even nicer than the photos!
 I've been waiting for this zero to come for days and now... more waiting to burn in. Pfff... I will have deserved it !
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So what can I say right now...
 It's the 110/220V version.
 It's connected to the coax s/pdif output of my PC (ASUS P5K motherboard), my HD-280pro plugged in the headphone output.

 Power on: My first surprise, the leds: wow I will have to wear sunglasses 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Coaxial input selected, Phone on: oups the blue leds intensity decreases.. Phone off: increases... Phone on again: decreases... Strange. Makes me wonder about voltage regulation... I'll see later.
 Headphone on my head: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 20% volume and I can hardly stand it... seems there is some spare power in there.
 Music on pause: no noise! In fact I have to turn the knob till about 45 percent to start listening some electronic noise. Perfect! (It was one of my concerns)
 I couldn't resist to compare with my PC output: for now zero has less punchy basses and foggy highs (Ok, I am not surprised because Penchum already repeated it so many times :IT HAS TO BURN IN 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 So now burn baby, burn ! Eagles will help you for the next 5 days!

 PS: For those who, like me, spent nights listening to Hotel California, don't hesitate, Eagles new (and probably last) album "Long Road Out Of Eden" is really a gem. (at least it makes me feel 30 years younger
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## verbaan

How would the ZERO perform with a Little Dot MKIII tube amplifier? I heard that the ZERO is warm as it is, so I wonder if combining it with an already warm tube amp is a good idea? My headphones are AKG K601's. Any ideas anyone?

 PS Modding isn't really my cup of tea, so rolling opamps is something I'd rather not do.

 EDIT: Maybe I can order the ZERO from BigLawHK (Lawrence) with the opamps rolled to my taste? Does anyone know if he supplies that service? I want detail but LM4562s seem to be too much?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gaco* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll look into that, going to their website now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just seem surprising that Lawrence is praising the LT1057 to such a great degree when Penchum just gave it a "good" rating. And it would cost me another set of shipping expenses plus possible VAT to get them seperately not from Lawrence. Oh well.._

 

I found out that statement about the LT1057 was made somewhere else on the internet ages ago, so much has changed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gaco* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think that I remember Penchum declaring his love for the LT1364 specifically somewhere through the first 127 pages though I can't seem to find it anymore._

 

The OPA627 in the DAC and LT1364s in the headphone board, is one of my favorites! Really outstanding!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gaco* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have anyone else tried the OPA627 / LT1364 combo other than Penchum? I'm considering to just take the default headphone opamps whatever they may be and then upgrading to the LT1364 later on._

 

I know that some have tried it and agreed they liked it. I don't know if they kept their Zero this way for long term or not.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gaco* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And Penchum if you by some stroke of luck remember this combo in particular do speak up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes, I do remember, because this is the combo I'm running in my Zero #1 right now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It is a very good combo for all types of music!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gaco* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just ordered a Zero + OPA627 DAC for 241$ incl. shipping to Denmark. Wohoo I can't wait!_

 

Good show old man!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gaco* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I figured that I might find the purchase of upgrade headphone opamps more satisfactory if I can actually hear the difference at some point so I just went with the default ones. My Senn HD600 just arrived today so within the next week I'll probably begin using them directly on my X-Fi, meaning that I'll notice the Zero amp difference as well. I realize it may take anywhere from a week to little over a month, but in either case I'm sure it'll be worth the wait 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I have a better idea (IMHO). Why don't you plug in your new HD-600s to your X-Fi and run it 24/7, burning-in the HD-600s (while you are waiting), so when your Zero arrives, you'll be able to listen too "only the changes happening to the Zero" and nothing else? It might be worth your time?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fremen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here it is!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 In front of me and burning in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 It's even nicer than the photos!
 I've been waiting for this zero to come for days and now... more waiting to burn in. Pfff... I will have deserved it !
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So what can I say right now...
 It's the 110/220V version.
 It's connected to the coax s/pdif output of my PC (ASUS P5K motherboard), my HD-280pro plugged in the headphone output.

 Power on: My first surprise, the leds: wow I will have to wear sunglasses 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Coaxial input selected, Phone on: oups the blue leds intensity decreases.. Phone off: increases... Phone on again: decreases... Strange. Makes me wonder about voltage regulation... I'll see later.
 Headphone on my head: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 20% volume and I can hardly stand it... seems there is some spare power in there.
 Music on pause: no noise! In fact I have to turn the knob till about 45 percent to start listening some electronic noise. Perfect! (It was one of my concerns)
 I couldn't resist to compare with my PC output: for now zero has less punchy basses and foggy highs (Ok, I am not surprised because Penchum already repeated it so many times :IT HAS TO BURN IN 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 So now burn baby, burn ! Eagles will help you for the next 5 days!

 PS: For those who, like me, spent nights listening to Hotel California, don't hesitate, Eagles new (and probably last) album "Long Road Out Of Eden" is really a gem. (at least it makes me feel 30 years younger
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)_

 

Congratulations! It is funny, but my blue LEDs dim slightly too. No biggie. Let us know at how many hours, something big changes.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *verbaan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How would the ZERO perform with a Little Dot MKIII tube amplifier? I heard that the ZERO is warm as it is, so I wonder if combining it with an already warm tube amp is a good idea? My headphones are AKG K601's. Any ideas anyone?

 PS Modding isn't really my cup of tea, so rolling opamps is something I'd rather not do.

 EDIT: Maybe I can order the ZERO from BigLawHK (Lawrence) with the opamps rolled to my taste? Does anyone know if he supplies that service? I want detail but LM4562s seem to be too much?_

 

There are several folks here that are using the Zero with the MKIII. It might take some time for them to reply. I use mine with the MKIVse and even with the default Opamps, it still sounds pretty nice! That OPA2604 is still a good Opamp, even if it has been out classed by newer Opamps!


----------



## Gaco

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a better idea (IMHO). Why don't you plug in your new HD-600s to your X-Fi and run it 24/7, burning-in the HD-600s (while you are waiting), so when your Zero arrives, you'll be able to listen too "only the changes happening to the Zero" and nothing else? It might be worth your time? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I would if I could - that way I'd appreciate the Zero even more when it finally arrives. But the pump for my watercooling system just said "F U" and died on me a week back. Word of advice NEVER buy premade thermaltake liquid cooling systems, they suck. I assembled the perfect computer myself (Q6600@3ghz, 8800GTX 2xRaptorX150gb @ RAID0 etc.) but the LCS was it's achilles heel. I'm waiting for a replacement POS pump but it keeps getting postponed = no computer = no Call of Duty 4 Multiplayer gaming = No working X-Fi to test testdrive my HD600 ion 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But seeing the kind of delivery times people are experienceing in general (3 weeks seem to be about average) I will probably have my computer up and running before the Zero arrives, so I will try them on ASAP! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But omg those LT1364 are cheap as dirt, but it's confusing with three versions - which one to buy if I decided?
Linkage for Linear Technology LT1364 OpAmp


----------



## mp101

Received both my Zero and Little Dot MKV today, thats 2 days to get the MKV (got the tracking number saturday) the Zero took a bit longer, but I'm happy


 Running from my SoundBlaster Audigy 2 (I think?) though the external breakout box then optical into the Zero, and a pair of Linn black interconnects to the MKV.

 I am listening to Metallica's ...And Justice for All at themo on my Equinox cabled HD650's, using Foobar 2000v.0.9.5

 I think it really sound good, bass it pretty good, not to tight sadly, highs are there, but get a little lost, the mids a little lacking a little, needs some burn in.

 Would a different DAC in the Zero help? or is it just burn in on the MKV?

 I am also thinking of getting a Auzentech Prelude, would this negate the Zero?

 More later, leaving it to burn in overnight.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mp101* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Received both my Zero and Little Dot MKV today, thats 2 days to get the MKV (got the tracking number saturday) the Zero took a bit longer, but I'm happy


 Running from my SoundBlaster Audigy 2 (I think?) though the external breakout box then optical into the Zero, and a pair of Linn black interconnects to the MKV.

 I am listening to Metallica's ...And Justice for All at themo on my Equinox cabled HD650's, using Foobar 2000v.0.9.5

 I think it really sound good, bass it pretty good, not to tight sadly, highs are there, but get a little lost, the mids a little lacking a little, needs some burn in.

 Would a different DAC in the Zero help? or is it just burn in on the MKV?

 I am also thinking of getting a Auzentech Prelude, would this negate the Zero?

 More later, leaving it to burn in overnight._

 

First off, Congratulations! More than one toy is always better! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 The way you describe what you are hearing, is exactly what I would expect this soon out of the boxes. You are doing he right thing, burn them in for the 100hr minimum. Watch (actually listen) for major changes around the 40-65 hour area, then smaller but notable ones up to 100hrs. Then, do some critical listening again. You are in for a nice treat!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gaco* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would if I could - that way I'd appreciate the Zero even more when it finally arrives. But the pump for my watercooling system just said "F U" and died on me a week back. Word of advice NEVER buy premade thermaltake liquid cooling systems, they suck. I assembled the perfect computer myself (Q6600@3ghz, 8800GTX 2xRaptorX150gb @ RAID0 etc.) but the LCS was it's achilles heel. I'm waiting for a replacement POS pump but it keeps getting postponed = no computer = no Call of Duty 4 Multiplayer gaming = No working X-Fi to test testdrive my HD600 ion 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But seeing the kind of delivery times people are experienceing in general (3 weeks seem to be about average) I will probably have my computer up and running before the Zero arrives, so I will try them on ASAP! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But omg those LT1364 are cheap as dirt, but it's confusing with three versions - which one to buy if I decided?
Linkage for Linear Technology LT1364 OpAmp_

 

They have to have a CN8 in them. NO CS8. Favorites are the 1469,1364,1361,and a couple of others you'll have to look backwards to find.


----------



## charley phogg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gaco* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would if I could - that way I'd appreciate the Zero even more when it finally arrives. But the pump for my watercooling system just said "F U" and died on me a week back. Word of advice NEVER buy premade thermaltake liquid cooling systems, they suck. I assembled the perfect computer myself (Q6600@3ghz, 8800GTX 2xRaptorX150gb @ RAID0 etc.) but the LCS was it's achilles heel. I'm waiting for a replacement POS pump but it keeps getting postponed = no computer = no Call of Duty 4 Multiplayer gaming = No working X-Fi to test testdrive my HD600 ion 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But seeing the kind of delivery times people are experienceing in general (3 weeks seem to be about average) I will probably have my computer up and running before the Zero arrives, so I will try them on ASAP! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But omg those LT1364 are cheap as dirt, but it's confusing with three versions - which one to buy if I decided?
Linkage for Linear Technology LT1364 OpAmp_

 

 Firstly I was going to suggest burning in ur HD600's while waiting on ur Zero but Penchum beat me to it. 
 Also saw you had the P5K and wondered what all you had, sorry to hear about ur H2Opump. You can't overclock the quad's 25% on air? Back that thing down and burn those cans in until your Zero comes, then fix ur pump or get a GOOD effecent air cooler. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I know, you wish it was that easy,huh.
 Stealing a line from some movie I can't think the name of... There ain't no water in computers!!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But seriously, you need to find a way to burn you cans in, otherwise your not gonna know if your coming or going between ur cans burning in, ur amp burning in, ur dac burning in.... swapping opamps around on top of it. Which leads me to something you need to make not of when swapping opamps. Just like the CPU, opamps are marked which way they go in. You'll see an indention on one end offset to one side, thats pin #1. Look at the originals before you remove them and make a drawing or take a pic of all of them for refference. I know it's been mentioned before, but not sure if you've seen it.


----------



## SLUSHIE

So I bought a converter and its working great now. Buying a converter seemed like an easier process than returning it.

 So far I like it but I wish the bass was a bit louder. I don't really get a tight seal around my ears, I have a odd shaped head or something and there is a small gap behind my ears kind of on my jaw. If I press it tight around my head it is a lot better but I can't really be doing that all the time.

 PHOTO!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gaco* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would if I could - that way I'd appreciate the Zero even more when it finally arrives. But the pump for my watercooling system just said "F U" and died on me a week back. Word of advice NEVER buy premade thermaltake liquid cooling systems, they suck. I assembled the perfect computer myself (Q6600@3ghz, 8800GTX 2xRaptorX150gb @ RAID0 etc.) but the LCS was it's achilles heel. I'm waiting for a replacement POS pump but it keeps getting postponed = no computer = no Call of Duty 4 Multiplayer gaming = No working X-Fi to test testdrive my HD600 ion 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But seeing the kind of delivery times people are experienceing in general (3 weeks seem to be about average) I will probably have my computer up and running before the Zero arrives, so I will try them on ASAP! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But omg those LT1364 are cheap as dirt, but it's confusing with three versions - which one to buy if I decided?
Linkage for Linear Technology LT1364 OpAmp_

 

Do you have, or can you borrow an MP3 player? You could use that as well for the burn-in.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SLUSHIE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I bought a converter and its working great now. Buying a converter seemed like an easier process than returning it.

 So far I like it but I wish the bass was a bit louder. I don't really get a tight seal around my ears, I have a odd shaped head or something and there is a small gap behind my ears kind of on my jaw. If I press it tight around my head it is a lot better but I can't really be doing that all the time.
 snip_

 

Good show Slushie! I can't make out which headphones you have, so I'm not sure what you can do to help with the "seal" problem. I can however, reassure you that breaking in the Zero for 100hrs will improve it greatly, even with the default Opamps, so run it like a race horse!


----------



## mp101

Thanks Penchum.

 Is there such a thing as a matched pair of OPA627? I'm not so sure myself as they should be the same (if they work).

 eBay have some at around $15 a pair, I have some free samples of the LT1361CN8, LT1364CN8#PBF (only ones they had), LT1469CN8 coming from Linear, and some browndogs from Cimarron.

 The Little Dot may move to the bedroom, so I want the Zero to sound as good as possible on the amp side too, I might start with a pair of LT1364's on the browndog first (after the Zero has burnt in), then I migh try a pair of OPA627's on the DAC.

 Cheers all

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_First off, Congratulations! More than one toy is always better! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 The way you describe what you are hearing, is exactly what I would expect this soon out of the boxes. You are doing he right thing, burn them in for the 100hr minimum. Watch (actually listen) for major changes around the 40-65 hour area, then smaller but notable ones up to 100hrs. Then, do some critical listening again. You are in for a nice treat! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mp101* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Penchum.

 Is there such a thing as a matched pair of OPA627? I'm not so sure myself as they should be the same (if they work).

 eBay have some at around $15 a pair, I have some free samples of the LT1361CN8, LT1364CN8#PBF (only ones they had), LT1469CN8 coming from Linear, and some browndogs from Cimarron.

 The Little Dot may move to the bedroom, so I want the Zero to sound as good as possible on the amp side too, I might start with a pair of LT1364's on the browndog first (after the Zero has burnt in), then I migh try a pair of OPA627's on the DAC.

 Cheers all_

 

Not really. A pair of singles is a pair of singles. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ow, and the LT1364 is a dual, so no need for the adapter, just plug it in the DAC. Then try the LT1469s when they come in, in the headphone board. You'll be surprised how nice both the DAC and phones sound.


----------



## king756

My Zero was delivered yesterday to work looking at the tracking info. Didn't have chance to pop in yesterday to pick it up so am going in later on.

 Also received some Sennheiser HD650's off ebay today with a Cardas cable upgrade to go with the Zero.

 I've also orderd some samples from Linear Technology lastnight:
 LT1364CN8#PBF x 1
 LT1469CN8#PBF x 2

 Luckily i didn't order them off the net last week as i was going to pay £30 before i found out about the free samples 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .


----------



## Gaco

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *charley phogg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Firstly I was going to suggest burning in ur HD600's while waiting on ur Zero but Penchum beat me to it. 
 Also saw you had the P5K and wondered what all you had, sorry to hear about ur H2Opump. You can't overclock the quad's 25% on air? Back that thing down and burn those cans in until your Zero comes, then fix ur pump or get a GOOD effecent air cooler. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I know, you wish it was that easy,huh.
 Stealing a line from some movie I can't think the name of... There ain't no water in computers!!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But seriously, you need to find a way to burn you cans in, otherwise your not gonna know if your coming or going between ur cans burning in, ur amp burning in, ur dac burning in.... swapping opamps around on top of it. Which leads me to something you need to make not of when swapping opamps. Just like the CPU, opamps are marked which way they go in. You'll see an indention on one end offset to one side, thats pin #1. Look at the originals before you remove them and make a drawing or take a pic of all of them for refference. I know it's been mentioned before, but not sure if you've seen it._

 

I don't have the P5K though it is an Asus board, the ultimate DDR2 of the P35 chipset: Asus Blitz Formula Republic of Gamers! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Should be an excellent overclocker. The reason why my CPU won't OC more than 25% op to 3.0ghz is that I got the Q6600 with B3 stepping by mistake - DOH! Should have had the G0 stepping of course, but that's just life sometimes. I'm going to get a replacement pump from TT(rated for 80,000 hours MY ASS!) though they're on backorder everywhere. It just happened that I did all my research thoroughly as I alsways do on all the components except for the liquid cooling system. I should have known better. But I had never used anything but air cooling up until then and I just wanted it simple, so I ordered that case with a complete water cooling kit. But you never want anything to do with the complete kits! You want to buy all the components seperately, and mostly don't have to worry about compatibility at all since ½" tubing is pretty much standard now (3/8" tubes is the lesser used inferior standard). Anyway I think I'm gonna stop now, I could go on about computer hardware all day long 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you have, or can you borrow an MP3 player? You could use that as well for the burn-in. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I think I'll get the computer running at leats 2 weeks before the zero arrives, is that enough time? What is the expected burn-in time of Sennheiser HD600?


----------



## Penchum

I've got just shy of 100hrs on my new HD-600s and they are almost done. About 12 hours ago, the super deep bass came into play! Now they are so cool to listen too!


----------



## king756

Well picked up the Zero from work.

 Them blue LED's on the front are bright!!!! It's also a fair bit heavier than I was expecting.

 It has certainly stopped the noise from my Livewire IEM's when listening back via Computer -> Optical -> Zero. With the Livewires it sounds OK to me (keep in mind this is my first amp / dac). With the HD650's I recievied today it seems a bit darker, bass was good on Prodigy's Smack My Bitch up though.

 So far I am preferring the sound from the Livewires. Hopefully when the Zero has burnt in and I get the new Op Amps I'll prefer the HD650's for home listening which is what I brought them for.


----------



## crashley

Got my Zero yesterday, 1/28, and haven't been able to stop listening long enough to post. I ordered and paid through eBay from Lawrence on the 11th, got an email from him on the 22nd with a tracking # and received it in Quebec 6 days later. So 16 days start to finish and I never once sent him an email.

 Now, this is my first headphone amp and I'm listening with Allesandro MS-1's, which are a big upgrade over my 20 yr old Signet's, which finally died. So, I have an Apple Airport, optical out to the Zero, and I am floored by the sound. I had goose bumps yesterday while listening to everything from Led Zeppelin to Bill Evans to Massive Attack to Cake to Kenny Burrell. This unit uses the stock Op Amps and hasn't been burned in and to my uneducated ears sounds phenomenal. I hear old familiar songs like I've never heard them before. 

 I left it running last night but forgot to plug in the laptop and the battery lasted about 1 1/2 hours so total burn in time might be about 12 hours now. Seriously, you mean to tell me this will sound better in a few days?

 After having tried the MS-1's for $99 and now the Zero for $174 (both delivered prices) I can't even say, 'damn you Head-fi', because for under $300 I have achieved sonic nirvana. And please don't tell me otherwise


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *king756* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well picked up the Zero from work.

 Them blue LED's on the front are bright!!!! It's also a fair bit heavier than I was expecting.

 It has certainly stopped the noise from my Livewire IEM's when listening back via Computer -> Optical -> Zero. With the Livewires it sounds OK to me (keep in mind this is my first amp / dac). With the HD650's I recievied today it seems a bit darker, bass was good on Prodigy's Smack My Bitch up though.

 So far I am preferring the sound from the Livewires. Hopefully when the Zero has burnt in and I get the new Op Amps I'll prefer the HD650's for home listening which is what I brought them for._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *crashley* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got my Zero yesterday, 1/28, and haven't been able to stop listening long enough to post. I ordered and paid through eBay from Lawrence on the 11th, got an email from him on the 22nd with a tracking # and received it in Quebec 6 days later. So 16 days start to finish and I never once sent him an email.

 Now, this is my first headphone amp and I'm listening with Allesandro MS-1's, which are a big upgrade over my 20 yr old Signet's, which finally died. So, I have an Apple Airport, optical out to the Zero, and I am floored by the sound. I had goose bumps yesterday while listening to everything from Led Zeppelin to Bill Evans to Massive Attack to Cake to Kenny Burrell. This unit uses the stock Op Amps and hasn't been burned in and to my uneducated ears sounds phenomenal. I hear old familiar songs like I've never heard them before. 

 I left it running last night but forgot to plug in the laptop and the battery lasted about 1 1/2 hours so total burn in time might be about 12 hours now. Seriously, you mean to tell me this will sound better in a few days?

 After having tried the MS-1's for $99 and now the Zero for $174 (both delivered prices) I can't even say, 'damn you Head-fi', because for under $300 I have achieved sonic nirvana. And please don't tell me otherwise _

 

Congratulations guys! Glad everything has arrived. Yes, the Zero will improve during the first 100hrs. This has been proven by like 50 users or more so far!
 Don't sweat the details, just run them and enjoy them! You'll notice the changes as they happen. HD-580s, 600s and 650s all sound great after the Zero has "matured". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Keep us posted!


----------



## Seba

Collected my Zero from customs today. I haven't listened to it almost at all, my friend tested his SA5000's (my old phones) from Zero + LD MKIV SE.

 Those leds on front panel are very bright


----------



## kmel

First... thanks have to go to Penchum for his wonderful review. Without his review I never bought the Zero. 

 Yesterday the HD650 arrived and today the Zero... perfect timing 
 I sensed that the Zero would be deliviered only after reading all the pages of this thread, never before.

 I opened the Zero to check all cables and looked for loose ICs and did the "wiggle test" on the cables. All fine... nothing happened on the way to Germany.
 Switched the Zero to 220V and powered it up.
 Wow... these blue LEDs are bright. Too bright I think, they will have to be modified to the intensity of the green LED. 

 Found a "mute" and a "reset" button. I think it's nice to have "Mute" on the front.

 My first impressions with the Echo Audiofire as source: Damn fine listening device, never heard so much details before. Bass is there, it looks (hmm... hears) like the highs and the middle frequencies aren't well developed yet.
 Cannot await the end of the burn-in.

 Now both items are in the 1st stage of burn-in: 4 hours quiet music.


----------



## Seba

I was impatient and swapped OPA627's and LT1364 for my Zero 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can hear slight noise when I turn the volume high from Zero. The noise reduced when I swapped those op-amps but it is there still. Though I can crank my Grado's for only 10-11 o'clock because the gain is a bit high.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seba* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was impatient and swapped OPA627's and LT1364 for my Zero 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can hear slight noise when I turn the volume high from Zero. The noise reduced when I swapped those op-amps but it is there still. Though I can crank my Grado's for only 10-11 o'clock because the gain is a bit high._

 

Do you mean using the built-in headphone amp, or from the DAC to your MK?


----------



## Seba

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you mean using the built-in headphone amp, or from the DAC to your MK?_

 

I'm only using Zero right now. Pretty nice sound from Zero's headamp, but I still prefer the less sharp highs from tubes.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seba* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm only using Zero right now. Pretty nice sound from Zero's headamp, but I still prefer the less sharp highs from tubes._

 

Ow, ok! Ya, no doubt! Hows the burn-in coming along?


----------



## mp101

Mines getting better now, about 30 hours, but my power LED has gone, I've emailed Lawrence.

 My SB card has 3 output options for the digital, 44.1, 48 & 96.

 Reading up a bit on Benchmarks site, they suggest setting the output to the same as the encoded material, in this case 44.1, anyone here got any advice?

 Thanks

 The LittleDot MKV is opening up too


----------



## mp101

its gone bright again now, oh well see what lawrence says.


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mp101* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Reading up a bit on Benchmarks site, they suggest setting the output to the same as the encoded material, in this case 44.1, anyone here got any advice?_

 

Benchmarks DAC1 has an ASRC which re-samples all incoming signal to 110kHz, because in their eyes the DAC (AD1853) loves this frequency and produces the best possible analogue signal. Even if the source is 192k, it's down-sampled to 110kHz.

 If Zeros receiver CS8416 doesn't do an up-sampling, I would produce a 96kHz signal for the DAC (AD1852).


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Benchmarks DAC1 has an ASRC which re-samples all incoming signal to 110kHz, because in their eyes the DAC (AD1853) loves this frequency and produces the best possible analogue signal. Even if the source is 192k, it's down-sampled to 110kHz.

 If Zeros receiver CS8416 doesn't do an up-sampling, I would produce a 96kHz signal for the DAC (AD1852)._

 

This is what my X-Fi ExtremeMusic is doing. Sounds excellent!


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is what my X-Fi ExtremeMusic is doing. Sounds excellent! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hope you don't use CMSS3D or the 24-bit crystallizer: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/ga...ml#post2024391


----------



## Seba

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ow, ok! Ya, no doubt! Hows the burn-in coming along? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I have feeded pink noise from my PC to it all night and I have hooked up my Sennheiser PX200's to the headamp because I don't want to risk my RS-2's if anything bad happens.


----------



## mp101

Thanks guys, all EAX & CMSS options are disabled.

 I did notice a very small change between 44.1 48 & 96, so left it at 96.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hope you don't use CMSS3D or the 24-bit crystallizer: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/ga...ml#post2024391_

 

Hi, sorry I took so long. No, I have all the "bells & whistles" turned off. It's the only way to have a "clean" signal.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mp101* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mines getting better now, about 30 hours, but my power LED has gone, I've emailed Lawrence.

 My SB card has 3 output options for the digital, 44.1, 48 & 96.

 Reading up a bit on Benchmarks site, they suggest setting the output to the same as the encoded material, in this case 44.1, anyone here got any advice?

 Thanks

 The LittleDot MKV is opening up too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mp101* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_its gone bright again now, oh well see what lawrence says._

 

If the brightness dims, or goes out, try cycling the power. I discovered that static electricity to the headphone cable was causing my Zero's protection circuits to kick in. Darn dry weather!!!


----------



## davve

I picked up mine after work today!


----------



## Penchum

davve;3732483 said:
			
		

> I picked up mine after work today!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Clok

Is this what I want?
 My rig would be then, 
 PC soundcard (Audigy 2 ZS atm) - Zero - AKG K271 STUDIO
 Do I need buy any cables to get all work out?
 Just dont wanna spend too much money for 1st setup.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clok* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is this what I want?
 My rig would be then, 
 PC soundcard (Audigy 2 ZS atm) - Zero - AKG K271 STUDIO
 Do I need buy any cables to get all work out?
 Just dont wanna spend too much money for 1st setup._

 

Your Audigy 2 ZS has coaxial out from the flexi-jack (top one) on the back, correct? Then all you need is a coaxial cable and the coaxial to mini jack adapter, so you can plug-in to the Audigy's flexi-jack. The other end of the coaxial cable plugs into the Zero. In the software, you'd tell it to use digital out and turn off stuff like the 3D and EAX. Ta-Da! On the Zero, you would select coaxial as the source and select phones to activate the headphone amp. The volume knob on the Zero is for the headphone amp, so you would control the volume there, not in the software of our computer.

 I do this exact same thing with my X-fi and it is great! This is the perfect upgrade path with a budget in mind. The Zero will mature nicely in about 100hrs of use, and later if you want to, you can change Opamps in it to change the sound to your tastes. If you decide to pickup a tube amp later, you can use the Zero's DAC output on the back to drive the new tube amp.


----------



## Henmyr

Just got the Zero.

 First impression is that it sounds really good
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 One "problem" though, is it possible to lower the gain a bit by hand? As it is now, I have the volume as low as possible without the channel imbalance to kick in, and with the ms2i, the volume is now 70-75dB. I would rather have it so that I can listen at 55-60dB the lowest. This is with Zeros amp and dac.

 EDIT: With the 32ohm dt990 05, the volume is about 78dB at the lowest possible.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got the Zero.

 First impression is that it sounds really good
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 One "problem" though, is it possible to lower the gain a bit by hand? As it is now, I have the volume as low as possible without the channel imbalance to kick in, and with the ms2i, the volume is now 70-75dB. I would rather have it so that I can listen at 55-60dB the lowest. This is with Zeros amp and dac._

 

Not that I know of, but can you back down the source? If not, maybe Lawrence can advise you on how to do it internally?


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not that I know of, but can you back down the source? If not, maybe Lawrence can advise you on how to do it internally?_

 

I'm using x-fi -> asio-> optical -> zero. If I lower the volume in foobar, wont the quality be lowered?

 Even the DT880 250ohm is around 76dB the lowest.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm using x-fi -> asio-> optical -> zero. If I lower the volume in foobar, wont the quality be lowered?

 Even the DT880 250ohm is around 76dB the lowest._

 

In XP, I think that is true. I know there is postings about it, but I read them long enough ago that I have forgotten! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Someone had posted not too long ago that the gain decreases during burn-in as well. This was on the units newer than mine, so I can't verify it for you. Let me know anything you find out or experience, please? I'm interested to find out as well.


----------



## davve

this is my first impressions, i only have had a few hours with the zero. I think it sounds very good! the built in amp is very good, i think the midrange is more present than on my DV. I don't have to use dual LT Opamps in the dac section but in headphone amp? and those red ( idon't know what it is called) that are marked on the pic is'nt same. are they lower quality?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_this is my first impressions, i only have had a few hours with the zero. I think it sounds very good! the built in amp is very good, i think the midrange is more present than on my DV. I don't have to use dual LT Opamps in the dac section but in headphone amp? and those red ( idon't know what it is called) that are marked on the pic is'nt same. are they lower quality?_

 

Ok, this is my bad. I'll try to explain a little better. There are single Opamps (like the OPA627) that require two of them on an adapter to work in a dual Opamp's socket. The Zero uses dual Opamps (like the LT1364) both in the DAC and Headphone amp. The LT's you have are "dual" Opamps and require no adapter anywhere in the Zero.

 Are you talking about the red boxes to the left of the Opamp in the pic?


----------



## davve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, this is my bad. I'll try to explain a little better. There are single Opamps (like the OPA627) that require two of them on an adapter to work in a dual Opamp's socket. The Zero uses dual Opamps (like the LT1364) both in the DAC and Headphone amp. The LT's you have are "dual" Opamps and require no adapter anywhere in the Zero.

 Are you talking about the red boxes to the left of the Opamp in the pic?_

 


 yes the red boxes, haven't seen those before in the zero. but in the headphone amp there are two opamps? so i need two there?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yes the red boxes, haven't seen those before in the zero. but in the headphone amp there are two opamps? so i need two there?_

 

Correct. One for each channel, L&R.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Correct. One for each channel, L&R. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yours seems to be an updated version! What other changes have you noticed?


----------



## Clok

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your Audigy 2 ZS has coaxial out from the flexi-jack (top one) on the back, correct?_

 

Yeah, I think it has but Im probably going to upgrade to XtremeMusic.





 [Solved]

 Anyway, I looked at ebay and I didnt see any Zero DAC`s for sale.


----------



## davve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Correct. One for each channel, L&R. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Okey didn't think on that becouse i only ordered one LT1361 and 1469 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 the metal chip/processor in the middle or what it is, on mine its texted VX-8111 49.1520 Mhz
 whats the diffrence between 1361CN8 and 1361CN8#PBF




 here you go!

ZERO 24/192 DAC D A CONVERTOR , HEAD FI AMP , BRAND NEW - eBay (item 330207889454 end time Feb-04-08 00:28:28 PST)


----------



## Clok

Thanks.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Okey didn't think on that becouse i only ordered one LT1361 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 the metal chip/processor in the middle or what it is, on mine its texted VX-8111 49.1520 Mhz_

 

No problem. Yours has two big red boxes, mine has two big yellow boxes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I don't think it matters much.

 What do you have for an Opamp inventory?


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_and those red ( idon't know what it is called) that are marked on the pic is'nt same. are they lower quality?



_

 

These are 12V relays. The decoded signal is switched between Phones amplifier and Preamp output.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the metal chip/processor in the middle or what it is, on mine its texted VX-8111 49.1520 Mhz_

 

This is a quartz crystal oscillator which feeds the DAC (and the receiver chip) on the bottom side of the circuit board. The different numbers could be production day/week or a related number.

 Yes... the Zero has a bottom side, but no pictures yet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 After burn-in I'll take two or three.


----------



## davve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No problem. Yours has two big red boxes, mine has two big yellow boxes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I don't think it matters much.

 What do you have for an Opamp inventory?_

 

Okay can you help me out wich i can use in hp amp and dac.
 I have one 1361CN8, one 1361CN8#PBF, one 1469IN8#PBF, two 1364CN8#PBF. some is named CN8 and IN8 whats the diffrent if gonna order i want the hole name becouse there seems to be diffrence.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clok* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, I think it has but Im probably going to upgrade to XtremeMusic.






 So I need the coaxial cable and some kind of adapter, ASIO?
 It`s not possible to connect the soundcard to the zero with just one cable?

 Anyway, I looked at ebay and I didnt see any Zero DAC`s for sale. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Looks like Davve has you covered on the ebay thing. Both the Audigy2 and the X-Fi have the flexi-jack, the top one in the pic. The adapter I'm talking about is a simple little thing, has a female RCA on one end and mini male on the other, it is mono. I got mine at radio shack for like $1. You can use a single RCA cord if you don't have a coaxial handy, but they are not as heavily shielded as a coaxial cable is.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Okay can you help me out wich i can use in hp amp and dac.
 I have one 1361CN8, one 1361CN8#PBF, one 1469IN8#PBF, two 1364CN8#PBF. some is named CN8 and IN8 whats the diffrent if gonna order i want the hole name becouse there seems to be diffrence._

 

Sure. The ones to order are always CN8 or CN8#PBF. The #PBF means "lead free" and they are identical to the ones without it (except no lead).

 The leading Opamps so far (this changes as more combo's are tried) have been: One LT1364 in the DAC on the mainboard, and two LT1469s in the Headphone board. I'm sure you are going to get more, so based on what you have, I'd put one LT1364 in the DAC on the mainboard, and two LT1361s in the Headphone board. This will sound pretty good until you can get the LT1469s for the headphone board.


----------



## davve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sure. The ones to order are always CN8 or CN8#PBF. The #PBF means "lead free" and they are identical to the ones without it (except no lead).

 The leading Opamps so far (this changes as more combo's are tried) have been: One LT1364 in the DAC on the mainboard, and two LT1469s in the Headphone board. I'm sure you are going to get more, so based on what you have, I'd put one LT1364 in the DAC on the mainboard, and two LT1361s in the Headphone board. This will sound pretty good until you can get the LT1469s for the headphone board. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Okey thanks! are there any diffrence in sound if they are lead free? so its okay that i use one lead free and one not lead free? So i should have two LT1469CN8#PBF in headphone amp?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Okey thanks! are there any diffrence in sound if they are lead free? so its okay that i use one lead free and one not lead free? So i should have two LT1469CN8#PBF in headphone amp?_

 

Correct. No difference between the Lead and no Lead. You can run them in the headphone board, no problems. It would be the best combo so far to have the LT1469's in the headphone board.


----------



## Clok

Is anyone, who live in EU country bought this from ebay?

 Just wondering do I have pay any custom fees?


----------



## davve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clok* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is anyone, who live in EU country bought this from ebay?

 Just wondering do I have pay any custom fees?_

 


 I live in sweden and i didn't have to pay customs i was glad for that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 on the package it was marked as gift and value was HK$1000. and drescription what was in the package, 1 piece audio processor.

 Penchum how do i remove the opamp easiest way? it seems to be stuck i just remove it with my fingers?


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clok* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is anyone, who live in EU country bought this from ebay?

 Just wondering do I have pay any custom fees?_

 

The Zero was delivered to Germany by TNT, no customs duty.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I live in sweden and i didn't have to pay customs i was glad for that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 on the package it was marked as gift and value was HK$1000. and drescription what was in the package, 1 piece audio processor.

 Penchum how do i remove the opamp easiest way? it seems to be stuck i just remove it with my fingers?_

 

Ah lucky you, I got it today and had to pay customs


----------



## davve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah lucky you, I got it today and had to pay customs
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 I know that hurts, when i got my DV i had to pay customs. What was written on your package i only had luck?


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know that hurts, when i got my DV i had to pay customs. What was written on your package i only had luck?_

 

It was marked like yours: "it was marked as gift and value was HK$1000. and drescription what was in the package, 1 piece audio processor."

 I didn't have to pay anything for my ms2i when I got them, so I think it's mostly luck or bad luck.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I live in sweden and i didn't have to pay customs i was glad for that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 on the package it was marked as gift and value was HK$1000. and drescription what was in the package, 1 piece audio processor.

 Penchum how do i remove the opamp easiest way? it seems to be stuck i just remove it with my fingers?_

 

If you have a pair of needle nose pliers, you can carefully grasp the chip at both ends, only exert enough force to slightly wiggle it up and out. Always the least amount of force.


----------



## davve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you have a pair of needle nose pliers, you can carefully grasp the chip at both ends, only exert enough force to slightly wiggle it up and out. Always the least amount of force. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 If you have a pair of needle nose pliers <--- what is that? a forceps that you pull out nose hair with?


----------



## king756

Received my free samples today from Linea Technology, not bad since they said up to 14 days and it's been 2.

 They didn't include the LT1364 for the dac so I am stuck with just the 2 LT1469CN8#PBF in the headphone amp at the minute. I used needle nose pliers to remove the old op amps as it was fiddly to get my fingers in their. I'm going to wait a week to see if they forward the LT1364 on separately before I buy one but so far so good.

 I've got about 12hours use on the Zero now, i think it's sounding better now although this may all be in my head as I can't specifically pick out the differences not being a audiophile. Drums seem clearer, bass is getting deeper and songs with acoustic guitars you can hear the strings being strummed quite clearly.


----------



## king756

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you have a pair of needle nose pliers <--- what is that? a forceps that you pull out nose hair with?_

 






 Although something might this might do


----------



## Kake

Received my Zero today 

 Seems to work fine, using an discarded CD-player as burning device.

 But as always there is an but.. 
 the Coax led indicator goes on and off.. does not seem to influence the audio output, but it's extremely annoying.. (if i wanted an Light organ i will buy it separate..) As earlier indicated by an user the diodes are way to strong for my taste,, (also some are bright green while one other are more blue-greenish)

 The volume knob was also broken (only the plastic thingy the potentiometer works fine.)

 but I'm happy..


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you have a pair of needle nose pliers <--- what is that? a forceps that you pull out nose hair with?_

 

LMAO!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Sorry Davve! The pic above is a needle nose plier. A chip puller would be best, but most folks don't have one. If your fingers are small enough, you could do it that way. Mine are just too big.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kake* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Received my Zero today 

 Seems to work fine, using an discarded CD-player as burning device.

 But as always there is an but.. 
 the Coax led indicator goes on and off.. does not seem to influence the audio output, but it's extremely annoying.. (if i wanted an Light organ i will buy it separate..) As earlier indicated by an user the diodes are way to strong for my taste,, (also some are bright green while one other are more blue-greenish)

 The volume knob was also broken (only the plastic thingy the potentiometer works fine.)

 but I'm happy.._

 

The flashing coaxial light means something. Email Lawrence and ask him, and tell him about the volume knob, to see if he'll send you one. I have replaced mine with better knobs from Parts ConneXion because I don't like the guitar style knobs.


----------



## Kake

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The flashing coaxial light means something. Email Lawrence and ask him, and tell him about the volume knob, to see if he'll send you one. I have replaced mine with better knobs from Parts ConneXion because I don't like the guitar style knobs.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Will send him an email and ask.
 although.. as of right now the lights gone.. (only the coax indicator the others works fine..)


----------



## davve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LMAO!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sorry Davve! The pic above is a needle nose plier. A chip puller would be best, but most folks don't have one. If your fingers are small enough, you could do it that way. Mine are just too big. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 








 i found a pliers like pic 1. It was easy to remove the opamp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 now i'm tesing LT1364 in dac and connected my DV to lineout. Its sounds gooood!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 i found a pliers like pic 1. It was easy to remove the opamp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 now i'm tesing LT1364 in dac and connected my DV to lineout. Its sounds gooood!_

 

Thats great! I suppose you could pause and pull some nose hairs with it, but maybe you'd get all of them in one pull!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I'm glad it's all working out.


----------



## edguetzow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *king756* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Received my free samples today from Linea Technology, not bad since they said up to 14 days and it's been 2.

 They didn't include the LT1364 for the dac so I am stuck with just the 2 LT1469CN8#PBF in the headphone amp at the minute. I used needle nose pliers to remove the old op amps as it was fiddly to get my fingers in their. I'm going to wait a week to see if they forward the LT1364 on separately before I buy one but so far so good.

 I've got about 12hours use on the Zero now, i think it's sounding better now although this may all be in my head as I can't specifically pick out the differences not being a audiophile. Drums seem clearer, bass is getting deeper and songs with acoustic guitars you can hear the strings being strummed quite clearly._

 

Yeah, I also got 2 1469's but did not get my 2 1364 nor my 2 1361's. Do you think they are out or just sending everything separate? I got the 1469's on Monday (1/28) but nothing since. I ordered all samples at the same time.

 I want to get all before I open it up and do my testing!!


----------



## kmel

It's time to remove the sunglasses 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ... my Zero LED Mod:

 1) Unscrew the LED circuit board.
 2) Remove the following 3 resistors and solder 4.7kOhm 1% resistors into the empty places.
 3) Test the brightness in relation to the green LED. If it is still too bright, try 10kOhm or more.






 4) Reinstall the LED circuit board.


----------



## Penchum

They look much better! Would you say the brightness was cut in half?
 Thanks!


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They look much better! Would you say the brightness was cut in half?_

 

I assume more than half... I reduced the current from 18mA to 1mA.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I assume more than half... I reduced the current from 18mA to 1mA._

 

I'm going to look around and see what I have. I sure would like them to be far less bright.


----------



## magnetiq

snowstorm in china is preventing mine from being shipped 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* 
_Then all you need is a coaxial cable and the *coaxial to mini jack adapter*, so you can plug-in to the Audigy's flexi-jack._

 


 where can i get an adaptor from? I can't find one anyway :s

 <--nab


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magnetiq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_snowstorm in china is preventing mine from being shipped 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 where can i get an adaptor from? I can't find one anyway :s

 <--nab_

 

Try this: Parts Express:RCA Jack To 3.5mm Mono Plug Adapter


----------



## Seba

Something bad happened to my OPA627's. Left channel went gone and I hear popping noises from it. When I removed the op-amps they were pretty hot.


----------



## Seba

I have now listened various music with DY2000 metal in the DAC and I like the sound so far. Nicely detailed and smooth. I will try later those OPA627's again if they were just overheated and sounded bad.


----------



## SLUSHIE

Mine seems to have developed a pop or a crackle that seems to happen periodically. I was listening to vinyl for a while so I didn't really notice it that much, but when listening to CD's its right there. I'm pretty concerned but I'm ganna let it rest for a while before I get to frustrated.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seba* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have now listened various music with DY2000 metal in the DAC and I like the sound so far. Nicely detailed and smooth. I will try later those OPA627's again if they were just overheated and sounded bad._

 

Did you use two OPA627 on an adapter? What you describe sounds like what others have described while putting only one OPA627 in a socket.


----------



## Seba

Yes I have them in browndog adapter. Too bad I didn't have enought time to audition them properly.


----------



## Seba

I downloaded Creative's Console Launcher and put the X-Fi to output 96 kHz of sampling rate. Absolutely no hissing when I set music to pause and turn my Little Dot all the way up.

 BTW I'm using OPA2604 right now because the DY2000 produced some hissing in highest notes. This OPA2604 doesn't sound bad at all with tube-amp.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seba* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I downloaded Creative's Console Launcher and put the X-Fi to output 96 kHz of sampling rate. Absolutely no hissing when I set music to pause and turn my Little Dot all the way up.

 BTW I'm using OPA2604 right now because the DY2000 produced some hissing in highest notes. This OPA2604 doesn't sound bad at all with tube-amp._

 

I agree. The OPA2604 may not be the "top" pick, but for pre-out of the DAC, it works well driving other amps.


----------



## davve

my zero is still burning in and my nose hair is gone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am not a audophile because i can't hear diffrence between my DV and zero amp.


----------



## Seba

There is something wrong with my DY2000 too, I put it again in the Zero and it still has hissing or maybe distortion sound in upper notes.

 I have contacted Lawrence about this, hope everything works out.


----------



## nor_spoon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_my zero is still burning in and my nose hair is gone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am not a audophile because i can't hear diffrence between my DV and zero amp._

 

With the DV332, I hear a very noticeable difference. Everything is more relaxed, without the "flatness" and middle "glare", and it is also more dynamic and more controlled and deep in the bass, playing with bigger authority.


----------



## spookygonk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_my zero is still burning in and my nose hair is gone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Why, was your nose hair affecting the sound?


----------



## Kake

well initially I had promised my self that i should use the stock opamps the first 100 hours.. but my patience is more or less non exciting. So. after 20hours with the stock opamps I have now changed to opa627 in the dac and 2xLT1364 in the amp section. 
 The biggest difference is in the bass region, which in my case using the stock opamps where more or less non existing. with the upgraded ops the bass i there, but still has some way to go..


----------



## magnetiq

got mine about 2 hours ago

 sounds much better than i thought it would, i love this thing.

 had to break out the audigy 2 zs plat. pro though because it arrived quicker than i thought and had no adapter for the x-fi 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 sounds great though, using DT770/80s


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kake* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well initially I had promised my self that i should use the stock opamps the first 100 hours.. but my patience is more or less non exciting. So. after 20hours with the stock opamps I have now changed to opa627 in the dac and 2xLT1364 in the amp section. 
 The biggest difference is in the bass region, which in my case using the stock opamps where more or less non existing. with the upgraded ops the bass i there, but still has some way to go.._

 

Yes indeed, it is tough to sit on your hands for 100hrs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 It's ok though. If the upgrade was mostly what you were after, then you'll just complete the 100hrs with different Opamps. If you get bored this summer, pop in the default Opamp and give a listen.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magnetiq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_got mine about 2 hours ago

 sounds much better than i thought it would, i love this thing.

 had to break out the audigy 2 zs plat. pro though because it arrived quicker than i thought and had no adapter for the x-fi 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 sounds great though, using DT770/80s_

 

Congratulations! Let us know how it goes!!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_my zero is still burning in and my nose hair is gone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am not a audophile because i can't hear diffrence between my DV and zero amp._

 

With the upgraded Opamps, and feeding the DV through the Zero, I'm not surprised. Several have commented in the past that the sound is more like a tube amp in the Headphone side. How many hours do you have on the Zero?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nor_spoon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With the DV332, I hear a very noticeable difference. Everything is more relaxed, without the "flatness" and middle "glare", and it is also more dynamic and more controlled and deep in the bass, playing with bigger authority._

 

Hey man, I forgot what Opamps you are running in the Zero?
 See ya!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *spookygonk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why, was your nose hair affecting the sound? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

He had SERIOUS nose hair, it took needle nose pliers to get'em out of his ears!


----------



## Clok

How would zero drive K701`s?


----------



## davve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With the upgraded Opamps, and feeding the DV through the Zero, I'm not surprised. Several have commented in the past that the sound is more like a tube amp in the Headphone side. How many hours do you have on the Zero?_

 

I'm using the stock opamps now. I only have a few hours on the zero. I will spend more time with my new toy this weekend


----------



## nor_spoon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey man, I forgot what Opamps you are running in the Zero?
 See ya! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I have only used the stock opamps in the headphone section. Unfortunately, my Zero does not get much play after purchase of my other DAC, but I am impressed with this little unit.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nor_spoon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have only used the stock opamps in the headphone section. Unfortunately, my Zero does not get much play after purchase of my other DAC, but I am impressed with this little unit._

 

I think you are right. For the money, it is a great deal. I like the flexibility too, but the DAC side is what I use most. For new folks, it can save them big money starting out, which I like the best.


----------



## king756

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edguetzow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, I also got 2 1469's but did not get my 2 1364 nor my 2 1361's. Do you think they are out or just sending everything separate? I got the 1469's on Monday (1/28) but nothing since. I ordered all samples at the same time.

 I want to get all before I open it up and do my testing!!



_

 

Received the LT1364 today so looks like they are sending them out separately... maybe when they got stock?


----------



## kwekeugene

Hey all,

 I just ordered the Zero myself 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Can't wait for it to arrive....

 BTW, how does the Zero sound like with Grados?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kwekeugene* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey all,

 I just ordered the Zero myself 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Can't wait for it to arrive....

 BTW, how does the Zero sound like with Grados?_

 

Several folks in the thread report them sounding great! Many Sennheiser and a few odds and ends, but everyone is pretty happy all around.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *king756* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Received the LT1364 today so looks like they are sending them out separately... maybe when they got stock?_

 

That's great! I was hoping things would turn out ok.


----------



## edguetzow

I finally got my 1364's and 1361's yesterday (2/1). Now will find time today and tomorrow to swap out these babies! Evidently they are just shipping each separately.


----------



## Seba

I was little bored today and decided to heat my soldering station and mod my Zero a bit. I changed 47kOhm resistors for dimming the front leds. Now they are perfect.

 I changed the 3 RCA connectors to Neutrik's proper connectors. First my Zero powered up only the headamp but no leds and DAC board. I checked everything again and put some electrical tape to the DAC board underneath the RCA connectors and everything is fine now.

 Tomorrow I'll make new interconnects (short enough) from Tasker C850.


----------



## davve

my LT1364 gets warm, what is wrong? perhaps they are not suited for the zero because my OPA2604 doesn't run hot. Can i use LT1469IN8#PBF in the dac? how many swifting can i do before i damage my socket in the zero?


----------



## Seba

My LT1364's will get warm too in headamp. They have worked fine for week.


----------



## davve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seba* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My LT1364's will get warm too in headamp. They have worked fine for week._

 

in dac section too?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_in dac section too?_

 

No problem. I've had one in my #2 Zero's DAC for a while and no ill effects!


----------



## davve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No problem. I've had one in my #2 Zero's DAC for a while and no ill effects! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Are yours not running hot? why do it do that? what opamps are you using in your two zero´s


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are yours not running hot? why do it do that? what opamps are you using in your two zero´s_

 

I think the higher speed ones run a little warmer than the others. I'm not worried because the Zero has ventilation.

 #1 has OPA627's in the DAC, LT1364s in the Headphone board.
 #2 has LT1364 in the DAC, LT1469s in the Headphone board.

 I like the sound of both pretty good. #1 is for feeding anyone of my tube amps from my PC, #2 is for feeding my Vintage SPEC equipment from any of my digital sources. It sounds really great too.


----------



## davve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think the higher speed ones run a little warmer than the others. I'm not worried because the Zero has ventilation.

 #1 has OPA627's in the DAC, LT1364s in the Headphone board.
 #2 has LT1364 in the DAC, LT1469s in the Headphone board.

 I like the sound of both pretty good. #1 is for feeding anyone of my tube amps from my PC, #2 is for feeding my Vintage SPEC equipment from any of my digital sources. It sounds really great too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Okey i was thinking using your alternative #2 i got worried when it got hot so fast and i swapped back. it must had been like 50Celsius


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Okey i was thinking using your alternative #2 i got worried when it got hot so fast and i swapped back. it must had been like 50Celsius_

 

I just looked at the temp testing data and they had 0 failures when testing them from 65c to 150c, which is like insane! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think we are ok. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The #1 and #2 are actual Zero units too! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I like the sound of #2 and the added warmth of #1. The Zeros have given me a low cost way to connect up all of my different systems, which is a blessing.


----------



## davve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just looked at the temp testing data and they had 0 failures when testing them from 65c to 150c, which is like insane! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think we are ok. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The #1 and #2 are actual Zero units too! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I like the sound of #2 and the added warmth of #1. The Zeros have given me a low cost way to connect up all of my different systems, which is a blessing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 



 okey i'm chilled, how is the signature of the 1364? and thanks for all help.


----------



## magnetiq

oh man i swear my Zero just farted, at first i immediately looked at my dad, but then after his protest i looked at the zero and went in closer - peewww!! what a nasty smell, i guess this is burning in smell? if not im screwed lol

 *it went awa pretyy quickly actually but still, my nose-hairs burnt off


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_okey i'm chilled, how is the signature of the 1364? and thanks for all help._

 

No problem! It has one of the better signatures we have found so far. The low end goes way down, with punch and clarity; The mids are flat with a slight touch of warmth; the highs go way up, with clarity and detail. It works well with all types of music and it is very quiet.

 In the MK1 portable, it has become the Opamp of choice over the LM4562. Combined or by it's self, it is a true performer.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magnetiq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_oh man i swear my Zero just farted, at first i immediately looked at my dad, but then after his protest i looked at the zero and went in closer - peewww!! what a nasty smell, i guess this is burning in smell? if not im screwed lol

 *it went awa pretyy quickly actually but still, my nose-hairs burnt off_

 

My second one was smelling bad for about 10 minutes, then it was gone. I'm guessing yours is still running, so hang in there!


----------



## davve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My second one was smelling bad for about 10 minutes, then it was gone. I'm guessing yours is still running, so hang in there! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Okey, me and my dad had done some serious listning. THE built in amp in zero beats my DV. It's seperate instruments better and wider soundstage.


----------



## jona.p

The built in amp of a less then $200 DAC/AMP beats the DV 336i with good tubes ? 
 Thats just crazy. Your on drugs !

 I doubt the zero beats it on female voices. I hope anyways .


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jona.p* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The built in amp of a less then $200 DAC/AMP beats the DV 336i with good tubes ? 
 Thats just crazy. Your on drugs !

 I doubt the zero beats it on female voices. I hope anyways ._

 

You have one coming, don't you?


----------



## davve

perhaps ss amps sounds better for my ears sometimes, it's depend on in wich mood you are.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_perhaps ss amps sounds better for my ears sometimes, it's depend on in wich mood you are._

 

That is a very good point! This is how I am too. I suspect that there are many others like us, they just don't know it yet!


----------



## davve

what chip is that on my soundcard its a opamp?


----------



## magnetiq

Hmmn, i think there is a limit on the amount of characters you can use in a search, as 'Zero' yields nothing.

 I want to know how this fares against other popular amps as a headphone amp? I'm hearing great things about the pico and am thinking of pairing it with the Zero, but if it isn't much better then there is no point..


----------



## Penchum

davve;3750459 said:
			
		

> what chip is that on my soundcard its a opamp?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magnetiq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmmn, i think there is a limit on the amount of characters you can use in a search, as 'Zero' yields nothing.

 I want to know how this fares against other popular amps as a headphone amp? I'm hearing great things about the pico and am thinking of pairing it with the Zero, but if it isn't much better then there is no point.._

 

I'm sorry, I don't remember what you are using as a source and phones.
 Is it a digital source? Did you need a DAC to be portable?
 Thanks!


----------



## Fremen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_what chip is that on my soundcard its a opamp? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

This 24LC01B is a serial EEPROM from Microchip. Nothing to do with an op amp. Don't try to replace it or you will have a bad surprise


----------



## Fremen

144 hours : OK, enough burning for now...
 A little point and let's roll (op amps of course 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## davve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fremen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This 24LC01B is a serial EEPROM from Microchip. Nothing to do with an op amp. Don't try to replace it or you will have a bad surprise 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ok thanks! good to know! it looked just like a opamp and my brain was saying change it!!


----------



## magnetiq

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm sorry, I don't remember what you are using as a source and phones.
 Is it a digital source? Did you need a DAC to be portable?
 Thanks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Soundcard, at the moment it's the audigy 2 zs and X-fi but might be getting a Xonar or Prelude..

 and DT770/80s


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magnetiq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Soundcard, at the moment it's the audigy 2 zs and X-fi but might be getting a Xonar or Prelude..

 and DT770/80s_

 

Cool. If portability isn't an issue, then using coaxial out of one of your creative cards, to the Zero, would sound really nice. No reason to buy a better sound card (for this purpose) since it just becomes a transport.
 The headphone amp in the Zero is going to sound better than the portable units. With Opamp changes, even more so. Playing lossless files through the Zero is a major improvement all by itself.


----------



## magnetiq

oh ok good to know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks

 will investigate into opamps too


----------



## Clok

Ordering zero amp tomorrow. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But should I buy couple of op amps too? Not really familiar with those, yet.


----------



## Seba

I like my default OPA2604 better than DY2000 metal. OPA627's I didn't get enough experience because one of them fried or something.

 I would advise maybe not buying those op-amps and instead order some samples from Linear for free. Browndog adapter can be handy if you order LT1028 (single op-amps) so you can mount them on that Browndog. The adapter cost 5$ when I bought one extra with dac.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clok* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ordering zero amp tomorrow. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But should I buy couple of op amps too? Not really familiar with those, yet._

 

I agree with Seba, get it and burn it in. If the stock Opamps seem lacking, then order some from LT.


----------



## Fremen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fremen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here it is!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I couldn't resist to compare with my PC output: for now zero has less punchy basses and foggy highs (Ok, I am not surprised because Penchum already repeated it so many times :IT HAS TO BURN IN 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
_

 

Things have changed now. After more then 140 hours of burning in, basses are now real huge. Not that precise but huge. Voices and highs are now clear. A big improvement.

 OP2604 + LT1057
 Not much to say. It doesn't improve anything (maybe worse in the highs)
 The LT1057 stays cold

 OP2604 + LM4562
 Big improvement in medium and highs (more precise) but the huge basses are gone.
 The LM4562 stays cold

 OP2604 + LT1364
 Basses more defined, medium and high maybe better then the LM4562
 The LT1364 is quickly hot (50-55°C but cools down on pause)

 OP2604 + LT1361
 Sounds like with the LT1364 for me.
 LT1361 quickly hot too.

 OP2604 + LT1469
 Seems as good as LT1364/61 but less hot

 LT1364 + LT1469
 Maybe more dynamics, basses are punchy
 LT1364 is hotter than the LT1469 and stays hot even with no music.

 Well, that's too many tests for me. I hope I didn't mix things.
 May be I should do it again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ... but not today


----------



## edguetzow

OK! I have been quiet for quite awhile so it's time I contributed my thoughts on my new toy.

 I have been trying out these opamps:
 1364
 1361
 1469
 2604 stock

 My preferred use is to optimize the DAC section for output to my Gilmore Lite.

 My music selections (FLAC) were:

 YES - The Ladder (esp "The Messenger") lots of bass heavy tracks
 TOTO - Mindfields
 TOOL - 10,000 Days, Lateralus
 PAT PENATAR - Innamorata
 MARILLION - Afraid of Sunlight
 DIANA KRALL - All For You
 ALAN PARSONS PROJECT - Eye in the Sky

 So, after breaking in my system now for well over a couple of hundred hours (waiting for opamps, etc) on ALL components (Chaintech AV710, stock Zero, Gilmore Lite & HD650), I have been extremely pleased with the performance of this unit. Stock has been "berry, berry good" to me! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have started with the 1364 in the DAC position and find it to be less than I expected. There is more bass but it seems overly muddy or a bit overwhelming - especially into the lower midrange. By comparison, the stock 2604 bass seems tighter, faster and more controlled. Soundstage on the 1364 seems wider yet more distant. I guess I prefer the "in your face" type of sound that I seem to get from the 2604.

 I patiently swapped out the stock 2604 with the 1364 to be sure. I played the same music tracks repeatedly to try and discern any differences to my ear but the 2604 just seemed more complete.

 Next, I tried the 1361 as DAC and found it more pleasing to my ear and very much like the 2604. Great bass reproduction and a bit cleaner in the mid and uppers. Slightly more crisp sounding and accurate. The things I tend to notice or look for the most are bass reproduction and crispness/clarity in mids & highs. I like accurate reproduction.

 The 1469 seemed just like the 1361 but still more of a preference. I can't say why but I like this chip (1469) the best of the group. I switched over to the amp out of the ZERO and plugged the two 1361 in the amp section. It was excellent! I forgot that I was listening to the built in amp and was lost in the music so much that I thought that I had been connected to the Gilmore!

 Music through this DAC (1469) produces a great sound for me. Bass is tight, deep, controlled and visceral. I can feel it pumping through me. I think I will stay with this combo for awhile and see if it can get better.

 I don't think I want to even consider the 627's yet, but then, who am I trying to kid?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fremen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Things have changed now. After more then 140 hours of burning in, basses are now real huge. Not that precise but huge. Voices and highs are now clear. A big improvement.

 OP2604 + LT1057
 Not much to say. It doesn't improve anything (maybe worse in the highs)
 The LT1057 stays cold

 OP2604 + LM4562
 Big improvement in medium and highs (more precise) but the huge basses are gone.
 The LM4562 stays cold

 OP2604 + LT1364
 Basses more defined, medium and high maybe better then the LM4562
 The LT1364 is quickly hot (50-55°C but cools down on pause)

 OP2604 + LT1361
 Sounds like with the LT1364 for me.
 LT1361 quickly hot too.

 OP2604 + LT1469
 Seems as good as LT1364/61 but less hot

 LT1364 + LT1469
 Maybe more dynamics, basses are punchy
 LT1364 is hotter than the LT1469 and stays hot even with no music.

 Well, that's too many tests for me. I hope I didn't mix things.
 May be I should do it again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ... but not today_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edguetzow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK! I have been quiet for quite awhile so it's time I contributed my thoughts on my new toy.

 I have been trying out these opamps:
 1364
 1361
 1469
 2604 stock

 My preferred use is to optimize the DAC section for output to my Gilmore Lite.

 My music selections (FLAC) were:

 YES - The Ladder (esp "The Messenger") lots of bass heavy tracks
 TOTO - Mindfields
 TOOL - 10,000 Days, Lateralus
 PAT PENATAR - Innamorata
 MARILLION - Afraid of Sunlight
 DIANA KRALL - All For You
 ALAN PARSONS PROJECT - Eye in the Sky

 So, after breaking in my system now for well over a couple of hundred hours (waiting for opamps, etc) on ALL components (Chaintech AV710, stock Zero, Gilmore Lite & HD650), I have been extremely pleased with the performance of this unit. Stock has been "berry, berry good" to me! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have started with the 1364 in the DAC position and find it to be less than I expected. There is more bass but it seems overly muddy or a bit overwhelming - especially into the lower midrange. By comparison, the stock 2604 bass seems tighter, faster and more controlled. Soundstage on the 1364 seems wider yet more distant. I guess I prefer the "in your face" type of sound that I seem to get from the 2604.

 I patiently swapped out the stock 2604 with the 1364 to be sure. I played the same music tracks repeatedly to try and discern any differences to my ear but the 2604 just seemed more complete.

 Next, I tried the 1361 as DAC and found it more pleasing to my ear and very much like the 2604. Great bass reproduction and a bit cleaner in the mid and uppers. Slightly more crisp sounding and accurate. The things I tend to notice or look for the most are bass reproduction and crispness/clarity in mids & highs. I like accurate reproduction.

 The 1469 seemed just like the 1361 but still more of a preference. I can't say why but I like this chip (1469) the best of the group. I switched over to the amp out of the ZERO and plugged the two 1361 in the amp section. It was excellent! I forgot that I was listening to the built in amp and was lost in the music so much that I thought that I had been connected to the Gilmore!

 Music through this DAC (1469) produces a great sound for me. Bass is tight, deep, controlled and visceral. I can feel it pumping through me. I think I will stay with this combo for awhile and see if it can get better.

 I don't think I want to even consider the 627's yet, but then, who am I trying to kid? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Excellent work on both you guys! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There are a lot of different opinions on what should go in the DAC section. This seems to vary with type of music, the rest of the system, wind from the southwest, time of day.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I never disliked the OPA2604 in the DAC, it has a nice "all around" output that every amp I have here benefited from. The OPA627s on an adapter in the DAC, is like icing on the cake! I then put LT1469s in the headphone amp and was pretty pleased with this setup, for all around use.

 I think both of you hit it on the head! Many other folks will benefit from your impressions! Thanks a bunch!!


----------



## pincellone

Has anybody tried to connect an headphone directly to an Audigy or X-fi and compare the sound with the Zero?

 I'm still waiting for my Zero, but I'm curious. I have a Sennheiser HD-555 and an Audigy 2 ZS. 

 I'm sure this comparison would definitely be of interest for several people.

 Thanks

 Alfred


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anybody tried to connect an headphone directly to an Audigy or X-fi and compare the sound with the Zero?

 I'm still waiting for my Zero, but I'm curious. I have a Sennheiser HD-555 and an Audigy 2 ZS. 

 I'm sure this comparison would definitely be of interest for several people.

 Thanks

 Alfred_

 

Hi Alfred,

 When I got my first Zero, I did compare it to the headphone jack on my X-FI extreme music I/O drive. The X-FI is stock and so was the Zero. The difference was night and day. The X-FI was boomy and not detailed, with some noise I really hadn't noticed before. Once I went Optical out the Zero, wow! No noise, full spectrum, great sound stage, accurate bass, mids and highs. It really was SO different, I kept saying to myself, "why didn't I do this before?". So, I find it easy to say you are in for a treat when you get yours together.


----------



## kwekeugene

Those who just ordered, you'll be in for a longer wait.

 They are having the Chinese New Year celebrations till 15th February. No postal workers will be working during that period


----------



## aural1ty

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Alfred,

 When I got my first Zero, I did compare it to the headphone jack on my X-FI extreme music I/O drive. The X-FI is stock and so was the Zero. The difference was night and day. The X-FI was boomy and not detailed, with some noise I really hadn't noticed before. Once I went Optical out the Zero, wow! No noise, full spectrum, great sound stage, accurate bass, mids and highs. It really was SO different, I kept saying to myself, "why didn't I do this before?". So, I find it easy to say you are in for a treat when you get yours together. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm curious, could it be a sucky Creative headphone jack contributing? The ones on my Creative Decoder DDTS-100 are poor quality and huge hissing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This is what brings me to this great thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Zero seems to be my ticket to a quality DAC with a proper headphone jack!

 So, could the stereo line output on the X-Fi card be superior to the headphone jack on the I/O drive?

 There's also the issue of 50 vs 300 Ohm


----------



## pincellone

Thanks Penchum. It would also be interesting to hear some other opinions on that. 

 After all, I believe this is the most straightforward test any Zero owner can perform. 

 For instance, the X-FI D/A converter is quite good as it is either the Cirrus Logic CS4392 (192 KHz, 114 dB) or the CS4398(192 KHz, 116 dB) depending on the model (more details here: ImageShack - Hosting :: xficomparisonchart3jh.jpg).

 The Zero uses an AD1852. Here you can find some benchmarks with the CS4398:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f7/cs4...arison-213448/ 

 I will of course give you all my thoughts as soon as I get my Zero. So far, I can only say that direct output from my Audigy 2 ZS (gold plated sockets) is excellent, and still better then what I can hear when I connect it to my amplifier through optical spdif (of course this might also depend on my amplifier and its internal DAC).


----------



## Henmyr

Just to get clarification:

 To use the zero as pre-amp, I should connect my other amp via the "line out" on the back of the zero (rca-out) and the "phone" LED should not be lit right?

 When used as pre-amp, only the dac op-amp matters right? The op-amps in the internal amp should not change the sound of the pre-amp?

 If this is the case, is the Zero a "real" pre-amp? Isn't it just used as a dac that way?

 EDIT: BTW, I'm now using the LT1057 in the dac, and LME49720 x2 in the amp, and with the dt880, the sound is very euphoric and carry a lot of emotion. My favorite for dt880 so far. 

 LT1364 in dac and LT1469 x2 in amp was also quite good, a bit more laid back and neutral maybe, but not as enjoyable to listen to.

 EDIT2: My zero isn't completely breaked in yet, only got around 100h, so the final op-amp decision is still to come.

 EDIT3: LT1057 + LME9720 x2 works very well for ms2i also.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aural1ty* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm curious, could it be a sucky Creative headphone jack contributing? The ones on my Creative Decoder DDTS-100 are poor quality and huge hissing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This is what brings me to this great thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Zero seems to be my ticket to a quality DAC with a proper headphone jack!

 So, could the stereo line output on the X-Fi card be superior to the headphone jack on the I/O drive?

 There's also the issue of 50 vs 300 Ohm_

 

I always thought the I/O drive's headphone jack/amp was better than the line out on the card. However, when I got better headphones (HD-580s), it was more apparent to me that the signal had issues in both situations, most likely due to the common circuitry they both use. No matter how you look at it, dirty amping gets you dirty output.

 I still recommend the I/O drive, for all it's other features. Having the Optical, Coaxial, analog and midi inputs and outputs handy on the front, is worth the extra coin IMHO. I still use the headphone jack on occasion, like when I want to listen to the audio from a small clip or video. It's handy and quick that way.

 Many here believe the X-Fi stock has audio issues anyway. There are mods to fix much of it, but the mods don't help for gaming. The alternative to the mods, is to use the card as a transport for digital audio, out to a DAC/Amp like the Zero. Then, when ever you feel like gaming, just do it. You at least get the best of both worlds this way.

 The Zero's ability as a DAC and headphone amp, is superior to anything the stock card can do. Several folks who had modded their card, ordered a Zero and reported their music was improved in almost every detail. The headphone amp in the Zero is independent and built on a separate board. It is powerful and you have the option of changing Opamps in it, to customize the sound to your taste. It will drive headphones rated from 32-600ohms with ease.

 On top of all this, there is an upgrade path being started by getting a Zero. Later on, if you decide to purchase a separate headphone or speaker amplifier, just drive it from the Zero's DAC output. I do this with my Sonic Super-T amplifier and speakers, and love it. Lossless WAVS played this way are so nice! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This should give you something to think about.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Zero's excellent price point opens up possibilities where none existed.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Penchum. It would also be interesting to hear some other opinions on that. 

 After all, I believe this is the most straightforward test any Zero owner can perform. 

 For instance, the X-FI D/A converter is quite good as it is either the Cirrus Logic CS4392 (192 KHz, 114 dB) or the CS4398(192 KHz, 116 dB) depending on the model (more details here: ImageShack - Hosting :: xficomparisonchart3jh.jpg).

 The Zero uses an AD1852. Here you can find some benchmarks with the CS4398:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f7/cs4...arison-213448/ 

 I will of course give you all my thoughts as soon as I get my Zero. So far, I can only say that direct output from my Audigy 2 ZS (gold plated sockets) is excellent, and still better then what I can hear when I connect it to my amplifier through optical spdif (of course this might also depend on my amplifier and its internal DAC)._

 

Yes, very dependant on your amplifier and it's internal DAC. When you get your Zero and burn it in, I honestly believe you are in for a treat!!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just to get clarification:

 To use the zero as pre-amp, I should connect my other amp via the "line out" on the back of the zero (rca-out) and the "phone" LED should not be lit right?

 When used as pre-amp, only the dac op-amp matters right? The op-amps in the internal amp should not change the sound of the pre-amp?

 If this is the case, is the Zero a "real" pre-amp? Isn't it just used as a dac that way?

 EDIT: BTW, I'm now using the LT1057 in the dac, and LME49720 x2 in the amp, and with the dt880, the sound is very euphoric and carry a lot of emotion. My favorite for dt880 so far. 

 LT1364 in dac and LT1469 x2 in amp was also quite good, a bit more laid back and neutral maybe, but not as enjoyable to listen to.

 EDIT2: My zero isn't completely breaked in yet, only got around 100h, so the final op-amp decision is still to come.

 EDIT3: LT1057 + LME9720 x2 works very well for ms2i also._

 

Looks like you have it figured out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think the use of the term pre-amp is odd, but applies if you had just a CD player, optical out to the Zero, then RCA out to an amp. Other than that, it is a DAC by any other name. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The headphone amp Opamps only effect the headphone output.
 The mainboard Opamp has an effect on DAC output and headphone output.

 I'm glad you are finding additional combinations! Some others where asking about the Zero and the DT880 working together, so this is a good thing!


----------



## jona.p

Quote:


 You have one coming, don't you? 
 

A zero? Naw.

 Already have the DV336i. I find it hard to believe the zero amp beats it, allthough everyone perceives sound differently.

 Maybe it's that davve just likes solidstate better, or that maybe the zero just has a better amp. Don't know.

 I do know that Im happy with my darkvoice 336i :>.


----------



## coredump

Will the X-Fi do analog output at the same time this is connected to the optical?


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coredump* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Will the X-Fi do analog output at the same time this is connected to the optical?_

 

Just checked. Yes it will.


----------



## coredump

Thanks. 

 I'm trying to decide between the Zero and something with USB like the KECES DA-151. I already have an MKIII so I just need a good DAC. 

 I just finished reading this thread from the beginning. It only took a couple of hours.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Allure* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can someone please describe the sound signature of the LT1057?_

 

I'm doing a rather large op-amp test with the zero, but the preliminary on lt1057 is that it is a good sounding one for the dac for ms2i and dt880 and okey for dt990. I haven't tested it much in the amp, but the preliminary is that it does not work as well there.

 In the dac, from some testing, I find it rather neutral and natural, not harsh at all if not the amp op-amp is harsh (found LT1361 rather sharp in the edges). It's midrange is rather pronounced and a bit more wet then dry, works very well with dt880 and ms2i. I find it to have good euphoric sound in the midrange also. It is not extremely airy, and rather thick with some op-amps like LT1469 and LME49720, but airy with LT1361 and average airy with LT1364 . This is just the preliminary though.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Allure* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great insight, thanks!

 I would have to try the LT1057 then - not in the Zero but in another DAC I'm awaiting, the "SUPER Pro DAC 707". Should also try it in a headphone amp I have.

 I really like thick sounding opamps with warm euphonic mids. 


 BTW, which is softer sounding between the LT1364 and LT1361 to your ears?_

 

I have only tried them both in the amp while using LT1057 in the dac, and while doing this the LT1364 is softer than LT1361.

 I do not think that LT1057 is the best to use for a stand alone dac if the amp is not very clear. I want to have the zero with headphone out to sound as good as possible with my headphones, so I'm not trying to find the absolute best dac op-amp, but instead the best combination of dac+amp op-amps, and that is where LT1057 fits. I do not think it's the best to use as a stand alone dac.

 It is not the best when it comes to the hights and bass, but rather mellow sounding but with a nice sounding midrange, thats why it fits well with ms2 and dt880. I would probably not use it with sennheiser headphones.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Allure* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And Sennheisers are what I have. Ok, I might leave the stock LT1364 in. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But anyway I want to try the LT1057 somewhere because I love a nice midrange._

 

Oh:

 "It is not the best when it comes to the hights and bass, but rather mellow sounding but with a nice sounding midrange, thats why it fits well with ms2 and dt880. I would probably not use it with sennheiser headphones."

 ..was directed at the LT1057, but do try it as it might very well work anyway. LT1364 will probably, as Penchum already tested, sound very good with Sennheisers.


----------



## Kake

Anyone tested the DY2000 metal in the amp section?

 I have a pair but thy have separated from their socket, and therefor I'm not sure if it's worth the risk (for a n00b like me) to assemble them in the amp since there are a chance that i fu## it up. 

 Although if some one has test them with an "great" result it might actually be worth the risk...


----------



## Henmyr

I have now used LT1057 in the dac and LT1469, LT1361, LT1364, LME49720, LT1358 in the amp. With my headphones (dt880 05 250ohm, ms2i, dt990 05 32ohm), I find LT1469 to be the winner in the amp. 

 dac + amp:

 LT1057 + LT1469 sounds very musical and euforic with a very beautiful midrange, but still with ok air and everything else. I find that it's the combo with the most bass out of all those also. It is rather coloured, but in a nice musical way, the timber is ok but nothing special. The sound is on the warm side.

 LT1057 + LT1361 was very airy and quite pleasent sounding, it was the brightest of the bunch. It had some sharp edges which made the sound very clear.

 LT1057 + LT1364 I didn't think that the difference between LT1361 and LT1364 would be as large as it was. The sound was still airy, but not as much as with LT1361. The midrange was not as clear and sharp as with LT1361, a little dry but still pleasant. I did not find it harsh at all. The timber was probably the best of the bunch.

 LT1057 + LME49720 This combo is similar to LT1469, but takes the euforic sound a bit too far, which makes it a bit too colored. From what I've read, LME49720 is very similar to LM4562, and thus should not be very colored so I guess that it's LT1057 which shines through. The sound is airy but still thick at the same time. The midrange is about the same as with LT1469. I will not use this combo as LT1057 + LT1469 was very similar but better.

 LT1057 + LT1358 This was a really strange combo. The sound was reeeally relaxed. I could easily fall asleep listening to this. It sounded like the music was playing in slow motion, had to check all of my settings in foobar to be sure that there wasn't something wrong. Not a harsh note found. The midrange was rather dry and soothing. It was hard to pinpoint what made the sound so slow, but it sounded like the music was "floating" on water. Every edge was softened.

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 The focus of LT1057 in the dac is not air, details, and timber. This will be found elsewhere. It does have a nice clear midrange which works very well with ms2i and dt880. It was okey for dt990 also, but I think that I will find a better one with just a tad more bass control. I found every combination to be more or less to the warm side, with LT1361 the most neutral and LT1469/LT1358 the warmest.

 LT1057 did not show a large amount of bass and it was not super tight. Only LT1469 did carry some bass weight.

 The treble was not overpowering in any way. I can not say for sure if it's the LT1057 which have rather laid back hights, or if it was the op-amps used in the amps which held it back. Only LT1361 and LT1364 to some extent let the airy sparkly treble of the dt880 shine. DT990 did have the sparkle to some extent with every pair.

 I would say that the LT1057 worked best with MS2i + bowls, it was not airy and clear enough for me to use flats.

 I'm not sure if I've found the best combination for the beyers yet, not to say that it didn't sound good, but for the MS2i the LT1057 + LT1469 could very well come out high in the end.

 ----------------------------------------------------
 LT1057 + LT1469 will be in the zero for now, until I get the chance to try another one in the dac and make all comparisons again. The warmness of the combination might get me in the end and I might try to find a more neutral combination, but for now it will do.

 LT1057 + LT1364 was the next best combination I think.

 EDIT: The only combination I might use instead of the stock combination is LT1057+LT1469 due to it's euphoric and "fun" colored sound with good prat, in mostly all other aspecs, it is worse than stock. Stock is more airy and has better timber, better bass, more hights, larger headroom, better detail and more natural and neutral.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Allure* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What do you mean with "stock" ? The OPA2604 + JRC 5532 ?

 Was it really better (even in detail 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) than something like LT1364 + LT1469? That would be a little strange._

 

Don't forget we are talking about completely different headphones than anything before. This accounts for VAST amounts of changes.


----------



## souperman

I recently jumped on board and ordered one myself. I use an HD580 as my headphones. Penchum recommended me use LT1364 in DAC and LT1469 in the amp section (he recommended me use two, why?). Do any other HD580 owners have good combos? Personally I'd like very punchy bass.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Allure* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Penchum, you should try LT1364 + LME49720. In a headphone amp it's making my headphones sing like rarely happened._

 

That's a good idea. I'll have to get some.


----------



## Fremen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't forget we are talking about completely different headphones than anything before. This accounts for VAST amounts of changes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hi Penchum,
 Something I was wondering: I have the HD-280Pro for a couple of years now. Has I have the Zero now, I am hesitating to go for the HD-650. As you have both of them, could you give me your point of view: would it be a VAST amount of changes with the zero? I would only use the zero and it's amp.


----------



## davve

Hi!

 wich LME49720 should i order, LME49720HA, LME49720MA, LME49720NA ?


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Allure* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What do you mean with "stock" ? The OPA2604 + JRC 5532 ?

 Was it really better (even in detail 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) than something like LT1364 + LT1469? That would be a little strange._

 

I mean that the stock (which is in the zero as default) was better than using LT1057 in the dac in almost all cases. I will try LT1364 in the dac later on. What LT1057 has which I find the stock to not have is the liquid midrange, which gives the euforic sound.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi!

 wich LME49720 should i order, LME49720HA, LME49720MA, LME49720NA ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

LME49720NA because it's the only MDIP thus the only one fitting.


----------



## davve

Thanks, how are the LME49720 in the dac?


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks, how are the LME49720 in the dac?_

 

Very hifi sounding. Clear, detailed. I'm using right now in the dac line out to headfive. It is a sound I could live with. Crystal clear and airy. Must try it more to give more details. It is not bad sounding, thats for sure.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fremen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Penchum,
 Something I was wondering: I have the HD-280Pro for a couple of years now. Has I have the Zero now, I am hesitating to go for the HD-650. As you have both of them, could you give me your point of view: would it be a VAST amount of changes with the zero? I would only use the zero and it's amp._

 

Well, there is a vast amount of changes when you switch over from the HD-280pro to the HD-650 anyway, no matter what you are listening too. The difference between these two models is night and day. Listening to them amplified by the Zero will reveal large immediate improvements with the HD-650s. As a few weeks of listening goes by, even more improvements will reveal themselves. The HD-580, 600 and 650 are true top of the line performers. You would be buying better sound by default, plus comfort too. It really is one of the biggest improvements you can make with your money, IMHO. If you like the Sennheiser sound, you will love the HD-650, no doubt about it.


----------



## magnetiq

ok, i think i am ready to undertake a bit of modding

 OPA627 seems to have a good reputation, however i see you use it in the DAC section and another opamp in the headphone section.

 Since i only use it as a headphone amp, would changing the DAC section's opamp be of much use?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magnetiq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ok, i think i am ready to undertake a bit of modding

 OPA627 seems to have a good reputation, however i see you use it in the DAC section and another opamp in the headphone section.

 Since i only use it as a headphone amp, would changing the DAC section's opamp be of much use?_

 

I'll answer this, even though I'm not sure it was for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 The Opamp in the DAC is very important for the built-in headphone amp. It is the first signal processing that happens, and is then routed to the headphone board for more, by the Opamps there. So, some "flavor" happens in the DAC and some "flavor" happens in the headphone amp. The final result is a mix of both "flavors". This is why testing is done to "combinations" of Opamps in both places. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Does this help some?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *souperman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I recently jumped on board and ordered one myself. I use an HD580 as my headphones. Penchum recommended me use LT1364 in DAC and LT1469 in the amp section (he recommended me use two, why?). Do any other HD580 owners have good combos? Personally I'd like very punchy bass._

 

I'm pretty sure you got my PM, but I'll answer this to, so others can follow. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 The LT1469's are dual, so one per socket. In the headphone board, there are two sockets, one for each channel (L & R). If this confuses anyone, please speak up. It is almost a twist on words.


----------



## aural1ty

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got the Zero.

 First impression is that it sounds really good
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 One "problem" though, is it possible to lower the gain a bit by hand? As it is now, I have the volume as low as possible without the channel imbalance to kick in, and with the ms2i, the volume is now 70-75dB. I would rather have it so that I can listen at 55-60dB the lowest. This is with Zeros amp and dac.

 EDIT: With the 32ohm dt990 05, the volume is about 78dB at the lowest possible._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not that I know of, but can you back down the source? If not, maybe Lawrence can advise you on how to do it internally?_

 

My phones are 40 Ohm and this is kinda putting me off 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm not sure if it would get bothersome for me in the long run, was thinking of hooking it up to the game console so won't be able to back down the source then..


----------



## aural1ty

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have now used LT1057 in the dac and LT1469, LT1361, LT1364, LME49720, LT1358 in the amp. With my headphones (dt880 05 250ohm, ms2i, dt990 05 32ohm), I find LT1469 to be the winner in the amp. 

 dac + amp:

 LT1057 + LT1469 sounds very musical and euforic with a very beautiful midrange, but still with ok air and everything else. I find that it's the combo with the most bass out of all those also. It is rather coloured, but in a nice musical way, the timber is ok but nothing special. The sound is on the warm side.

 LT1057 + LT1361 was very airy and quite pleasent sounding, it was the brightest of the bunch. It had some sharp edges which made the sound very clear.

 LT1057 + LT1364 I didn't think that the difference between LT1361 and LT1364 would be as large as it was. The sound was still airy, but not as much as with LT1361. The midrange was not as clear and sharp as with LT1361, a little dry but still pleasant. I did not find it harsh at all. The timber was probably the best of the bunch.

 LT1057 + LME49720 This combo is similar to LT1469, but takes the euforic sound a bit too far, which makes it a bit too colored. From what I've read, LME49720 is very similar to LM4562, and thus should not be very colored so I guess that it's LT1057 which shines through. The sound is airy but still thick at the same time. The midrange is about the same as with LT1469. I will not use this combo as LT1057 + LT1469 was very similar but better.

 LT1057 + LT1358 This was a really strange combo. The sound was reeeally relaxed. I could easily fall asleep listening to this. It sounded like the music was playing in slow motion, had to check all of my settings in foobar to be sure that there wasn't something wrong. Not a harsh note found. The midrange was rather dry and soothing. It was hard to pinpoint what made the sound so slow, but it sounded like the music was "floating" on water. Every edge was softened.

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 The focus of LT1057 in the dac is not air, details, and timber. This will be found elsewhere. It does have a nice clear midrange which works very well with ms2i and dt880. It was okey for dt990 also, but I think that I will find a better one with just a tad more bass control. I found every combination to be more or less to the warm side, with LT1361 the most neutral and LT1469/LT1358 the warmest.

 LT1057 did not show a large amount of bass and it was not super tight. Only LT1469 did carry some bass weight.

 The treble was not overpowering in any way. I can not say for sure if it's the LT1057 which have rather laid back hights, or if it was the op-amps used in the amps which held it back. Only LT1361 and LT1364 to some extent let the airy sparkly treble of the dt880 shine. DT990 did have the sparkle to some extent with every pair.

 I would say that the LT1057 worked best with MS2i + bowls, it was not airy and clear enough for me to use flats.

 I'm not sure if I've found the best combination for the beyers yet, not to say that it didn't sound good, but for the MS2i the LT1057 + LT1469 could very well come out high in the end.

 ----------------------------------------------------
 LT1057 + LT1469 will be in the zero for now, until I get the chance to try another one in the dac and make all comparisons again. The warmness of the combination might get me in the end and I might try to find a more neutral combination, but for now it will do.

 LT1057 + LT1364 was the next best combination I think.

 EDIT: The only combination I might use instead of the stock combination is LT1057+LT1469 due to it's euphoric and "fun" colored sound with good prat, in mostly all other aspecs, it is worse than stock. Stock is more airy and has better timber, better bass, more hights, larger headroom, better detail and more natural and neutral._

 

Thanks for sharing your findings! I noted your current combo 1xLT1057@DAC / 2xLT1469@AMP is listed as good/good while the reversed combo is listed as great/great. Just wondering did you only use LT1057 in the DAC all the time, if you have two LT1057s why not try the recommended 1xLT1469@DAC / 2xLT1057@AMP instead? Might be a win/win combo for you too


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aural1ty* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for sharing your findings! I noted your current combo 1xLT1057@DAC / 2xLT1469@AMP is listed as good/good while the reversed combo is listed as great/great. Just wondering did you only use LT1057 in the DAC all the time, if you have two LT1057s why not try the recommended 1xLT1469@DAC / 2xLT1057@AMP instead? Might be a win/win combo for you too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I will try that combination also when I get there
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 LME49720 is the next one to take the place in the dac. I will get to LT1469 in the dac eventually, maybe after LME49720


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aural1ty* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My phones are 40 Ohm and this is kinda putting me off 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm not sure if it would get bothersome for me in the long run, was thinking of hooking it up to the game console so won't be able to back down the source then.._

 

I tried the same song again with the dt990 32ohm and the peak volume is now 72db with an average around 68-70db. So the gain has been lowered by burn-in and is now acceptable.

 EDIT: Also, this is when using LME49720 in both dac and amp (got 3 of those). Will try the stock later and see if that is as low also.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Allure* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm no I don't think.._

 

Well maybe the gain hasn't been lowered, but the channel imbalance might have recessed. When I first got it, I turned the volume up to the point where no channel imbalance was evident, and at that time it was around 78dB. When I tried it now, the volume when the channel imbalance is gone is around 70dB average.

 In any case, it is now possible to listen at 70dB, something which was not possible with dt990 32ohm when it was new.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Allure* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm no I don't think.._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well maybe the gain hasn't been lowered, but the channel imbalance might have recessed. When I first got it, I turned the volume up to the point where no channel imbalance was evident, and at that time it was around 78dB. When I tried it now, the volume when the channel imbalance is gone is around 70dB average.

 In any case, it is now possible to listen at 70dB, something which was not possible with dt990 32ohm when it was new._

 

This would also be variable due to specs on the Opamps used. Some have less output and this would be noticeable in the end.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aural1ty* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for sharing your findings! I noted your current combo 1xLT1057@DAC / 2xLT1469@AMP is listed as good/good while the reversed combo is listed as great/great. Just wondering did you only use LT1057 in the DAC all the time, if you have two LT1057s why not try the recommended 1xLT1469@DAC / 2xLT1057@AMP instead? Might be a win/win combo for you too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The chart was developed with Senn HD-650 use. Other headphones will have a different end result for sure.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Allure* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think that the LT1469 may just be the sweet spot for the DAC between resolution and musicality for many setups._

 

Eventually, I'm going to go back and check this one with my newly broke in HD-600s and see what is what. I sure do like the LT1469 and the LT1364. What they bring to the Zero is nothing short of spectacular!


----------



## magnetiq

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll answer this, even though I'm not sure it was for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 The Opamp in the DAC is very important for the built-in headphone amp. It is the first signal processing that happens, and is then routed to the headphone board for more, by the Opamps there. So, some "flavor" happens in the DAC and some "flavor" happens in the headphone amp. The final result is a mix of both "flavors". This is why testing is done to "combinations" of Opamps in both places. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Does this help some? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

yea it was directed at you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, 

 and thanks that was really helpful


----------



## mp101

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's time to remove the sunglasses 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ... my Zero LED Mod:

 1) Unscrew the LED circuit board.
 2) Remove the following 3 resistors and solder 4.7kOhm 1% resistors into the empty places.
 3) Test the brightness in relation to the green LED. If it is still too bright, try 10kOhm or more.


 4) Reinstall the LED circuit board.
_

 

Hi KMEL, what power rating are the resistors? Also my power LED keeps going off, then dim, its back again now but was out for 4 days, any ideas?

 Thanks


----------



## Henmyr

I have now tested LME49720 in the dac and LME49720, LT1057, LT1469, LT1361, LT1364 and LT1358 in the amp using my phones (dt880 05 250ohm, ms2i, dt990 05 32ohm). LT1469 was my favorite of the bunch yet again.
 ----------------------------------------
 Dac + amp

 LME49720 + LME49720 : Clear sound, okey details, airy. The timber and naturality is not perfect. Works okey for all 3 headphones, but good and best with dt990. I though that the treble was going to be overpowering, but that wasn't something I found at all. 

 LME49720 + LT1057 : The sound of LT1057 show itself again, the midrange focused, closed in and unharsh sound. A lot of air is lost, as is detail, naturality, bass, treble and timber. The LT1057 midrange is good and detailed. Not harsh at all.

 LME49720 + LT1469 : My favorite of the bunch. Very natural sound, neutral, transparent and airy but still musical and quite euphoric (not as euphoric as LT1057+LT1469 but better at everything else). The sound is similar to the zero stock op-amps, a bit more detailed maybe. The treble sparkles nicely and let the beyersound through. Was very good for both DT880 and MS2i (really good with both bowls and flats), though not the best for dt990 as it sounded a bit like the midrange was more sucked out than usual. Better timber for brass instruments with ms2i than usual. Overall a nice sounding one.

 LME49720 + LT1361 : EXTREMELY clear and airy. Yet again the LT1361 shows it's clear and airy sound, just as it did when LT1057 was in the dac. This is the clearest sound yet. Sounds similar to LT1469 but with a little less naturality and much more focus on treble and more air. Very much details, especially in the treble.

 LME49720 + LT1364 : Yet again the difference between LT1361 and LT1364 is big. It sounds a bit like with both LT1469 and LT1361, but with softer edges, and less details and everything else. Not a favorite.

 LME49720 + LT1358 : LT1358 really shows it's face again. The very strange sound from when LT1057 was the dac is still here. Sounds like slow motion. The words from the singers sounds much longer than usual, like they keep the note much much longer. I'm not sure why it sounds like this, very very strange. Otherwise the sound is very similar to LT1364. I liked the combination of LT1057 + LT1358 more than this combination, as LT1057 + LT1358 had a much more focused tonality. This combination doesn't really have anything nice at all, where as LT1057+LT1358 at least had some euforic sound from LT1057.
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------
 LME49720 in the dac sounds very clear and airy. The timber and naturality is good, but not perfect so it needs help with those, something the LT1469 and LT1361 could do. The treble is sparkly and detailed, but not overpowering, a very nice one. The bass is tight and with a good amount.

 It worked well as a dac out to the headfive, something which the LT1057 wasn't very good at.

 Out of all these, LME49720+LT1469 will be placed on my "alternative op-amps list" together with LT1057+LT1469. 
 The stock is still in the fight. 

 I find the stock to be a very nice sounding one indeed. Good at everything and bad at nothing, fun but still neutral and natural, clear and airy but not harsh.


----------



## mp101

Replaced my headphone opamps with LT1469, I left the DAC alone as I am still waiting for my 627's (i odered sm ones before doh).

 I thought it was a tad bright at first, but now its had some time to burn in its a lot better, not quite the impact my LD MKV has.


----------



## davve

I have just put LT1364 in dac and LT1469 in headphone amp, sounds great


----------



## magnetiq

this might sound like a silly question

 but is there a particular opamp that seems to perform best in the headphone amp???


----------



## Kake

This might also be an stupid question..
 For the time being my zero is connected to an normal cd player (burnin).
 The primary and future use will be connected to my pc.

 When playing music, I have heard that one is supposed to use passthrough.. to get a bitperfect transfer to the DAC (in my case optical out from my audio card)

 question: If the computer is configured for audio passthrough, what will happen when i use my computer to see movies which have an none stereo signal? (i.e. ac3)


----------



## davve

that LT1364 gets so isn't it a stabilty problem? I have read that..


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magnetiq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_this might sound like a silly question

 but is there a particular opamp that seems to perform best in the headphone amp???_

 

Do you mean with the stock Opamp in the DAC at the same time?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_that LT1364 gets so isn't it a stabilty problem? I have read that.._

 

Do you mean hot?


----------



## davve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you mean hot?_

 

hehe yes, but i sounds really good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 the OPA2604 and my DV wasn't a good match. Overall LT1364 is better. How are the LT1361 and LT1469 in dac?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hehe yes, but i sounds really good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I've ran mine for days on end and never had artifacts or drop outs from excess heat. If I was truly worried about heat, I'd get one of those stick on aluminum cooling devices, but it gets hot to a certain level and stays there. I'm pretty sure it's a non issue.


----------



## magnetiq

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you mean with the stock Opamp in the DAC at the same time?_

 

ok how about the best combination, i'd anyone's opinion


----------



## davve

I'm curious on the LT1361..still impressed by the built in amp how good it sounds.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magnetiq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ok how about the best combination, i'd anyone's opinion 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

There are two combinations that I like. Both have great sound coming out of the DAC and the headphone amp, with HD-650s plugged in:

 DAC=OPA627 X2 on adapter
 AMP=LT1364 in each socket

 DAC=LT1364
 AMP=LT1469 in each socket

 I had to consider the sound out of both the DAC and AMP, because my plans were to hook both of my Zero's to different amps, so I needed a combination for each situation. The top one is for my Zero hooked to my Vintage Pioneer SPEC equipment. The bottom one is for my 2nd Zero hooked to my Sonic Super-T Amp. Have a good one!


----------



## Trapper32

Well I have more than 100 hours on my Zero and things are coming along fine.. The bass tightened up and the treble harshness was reduced..

 Tried the LME49720 in the dac and greatly preferred it over the 2604.This worked quite well as dac to my P2 and Lyrix....Tried the OPA2227s in the amp and although alot better than stock there was something still missing...

 Finally put the OPA627s in the dac and this thing is now singing....couldn't believe how well I like this opamp.... and with the LME 49720s in the amp section I was toe tapping to the music all night...This combo really works well for my Senn and Grados and with my ears...Very detailed yet musical..mids are very smooth, timbre is excellent, bass and treble are just right......Think I'll enjoy the music with this combo for awhile before I try the LTs....Better yet maybe I'll get a second unit to try the LTs in...I think the the OPA627s and the LME49720s are keepers...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks to all who are contributing to this great thread....Your efforts are much appreciated...


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm curious on the LT1361..still impressed by the built in amp how good it sounds._

 

The LT1361 is actually a very nice Opamp. Considering there is just a tiny bit of difference between most of the better LT Opamps, I'd rate these three like this:
 LT1364
 LT1469
 LT1361

 Any one of these three could substitute for the other two without being displeasing. All three work well in the headphone amp, with the OPA627x2 in the DAC. Hard to go wrong with these guys, I think.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The LT1361 is actually a very nice Opamp. Considering there is just a tiny bit of difference between most of the better LT Opamps, I'd rate these three like this:
 LT1364
 LT1469
 LT1361

 Any one of these three could substitute for the other two without being displeasing. All three work well in the headphone amp, with the OPA627x2 in the DAC. Hard to go wrong with these guys, I think. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Have you tried all three with the same dac? I think that they sound very different from each other. Maybe I need to burn them in more, or it's my headphones which somehow works different than the hd650?

 From the testing I've done, is that they all share the tonality to an extent. LT1361 is really really clear, airy and focus on higher frequencies. LT1364 is mellower sounding, dryer midrange, softer edges and less detail. LT1469 is between those, airy and clear but not to the extent of LT1361, very detailed, just a very very slight warm coloration in the midrange, good bass texture and good amount.

 Are you not experiencing this at all?

 EDIT: This is with them all being in the amp.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you tried all three with the same dac? I think that they sound very different from each other. Maybe I need to burn them in more, or it's my headphones which somehow works different than the hd650?

 From the testing I've done, is that they all share the tonality to an extent. LT1361 is really really clear, airy and focus on higher frequencies. LT1364 is mellower sounding, dryer midrange, softer edges and less detail. LT1469 is between those, airy and clear but not to the extent of LT1361, very detailed, just a very very slight warm coloration in the midrange, good bass texture and good amount.

 Are you not experiencing this at all?

 EDIT: This is with them all being in the amp._

 

Well, the two variable would be; What Opamp was in the DAC during that time and what headphones were used. I'm sure the HD-650s reveal a different signature than many others, so that would be a big player. However, the most variation would come from the DAC Opamp used when listening to the three in the headphone amp.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trapper32* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I have more than 100 hours on my Zero and things are coming along fine.. The bass tightened up and the treble harshness was reduced..

 Tried the LME49720 in the dac and greatly preferred it over the 2604.This worked quite well as dac to my P2 and Lyrix....Tried the OPA2227s in the amp and although alot better than stock there was something still missing...

 Finally put the OPA627s in the dac and this thing is now singing....couldn't believe how well I like this opamp.... and with the LME 49720s in the amp section I was toe tapping to the music all night...This combo really works well for my Senn and Grados and with my ears...Very detailed yet musical..mids are very smooth, timbre is excellent, bass and treble are just right......Think I'll enjoy the music with this combo for awhile before I try the LTs....Better yet maybe I'll get a second unit to try the LTs in...I think the the OPA627s and the LME49720s are keepers...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks to all who are contributing to this great thread....Your efforts are much appreciated..._

 

Thanks Trapper, these guys have been seriously going for it, and this helps everyone, big time! Hats off to them! It is hard not to love those OPA627s.


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mp101* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi KMEL, what power rating are the resistors? Also my power LED keeps going off, then dim, its back again now but was out for 4 days, any ideas?_

 

The resistors are 600mW. The LED consumes up to 20mA max, the power rating should be 100mW minimum.

 Check the cable between the LED board and the main board. Perhaps the connector on the main board side is loose, so wiggle it into its socket.

 You can remove the connector from the main board socket: Check the connector... All 7 cables should be in their crimp contacts and the 7 crimp contacts should be locked in their socket of the connector.

 You can also check the micro controller. If it is loose or not complete in its socket... push it gently.
 The micro controller is next to the connector mentioned above. Thanks to davve for his picture link.


----------



## mp101

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The resistors are 600mW. The LED consumes up to 20mA max, the power rating should be 100mW minimum.

 Check the cable between the LED board and the main board. Perhaps the connector on the main board side is loose, so wiggle it into its socket.

 You can remove the connector from the main board socket: Check the connector... All 7 cables should be in their crimp contacts and the 7 crimp contacts should be locked in their socket of the connector.

 You can also check the micro controller. If it is loose or not complete in its socket... push it gently.
 The micro controller is next to the connector mentioned above. Thanks to davve for his picture link._

 

Nice one, Thanks


----------



## bada bing

I've been doing some rolling in my Zero.
 One warning I have is that in my Zero, the LT1364 is exhibiting some signs of hi- freq oscillation. When used in the DAC section, LT1364 (two different chips) ran hot and also caused the LT1469's I had installed in the Amp section to run hot. The sound was okay, a touch too bright and the audible volume was somewhat diminished. It may be an issue with my board or it may be that LT1364 is borderline unstable in the Zero. Other than the issue with LT1364's my zero is impressing me. 

 Just a heads up for others rolling their zeros. High performance op amps can have issues in some amps and not others of the same version - like the old Pint portable and 8697's


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bada bing* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been doing some rolling in my Zero.
 One warning I have is that in my Zero, the LT1364 is exhibiting some signs of hi- freq oscillation. When used in the DAC section, LT1364 (two different chips) ran hot and also caused the LT1469's I had installed in the Amp section to run hot. The sound was okay, a touch too bright and the audible volume was somewhat diminished. It may be an issue with my board or it may be that LT1364 is borderline unstable in the Zero. Other than the issue with LT1364's my zero is impressing me. 

 Just a heads up for others rolling their zeros. High performance op amps can have issues in some amps and not others of the same version - like the old Pint portable and 8697's_

 

Wow! That's a first! Question? Is your Zero broke in yet, or did you start swapping right away?
 Thanks!


----------



## bada bing

It has about 30 hours on it.

 The telltale that something is amiss with the LT1364 in the DAC is not that the LT1364 runs hot, but that it makes the LT1469's in the amp section run hot at equivalent volume level. When the 1364's (I tried both I had) were replaced with any other option, the LT1469's run much cooler. The LT1364 is throwing some inaudible oscillations downstream and loading the amp board. The sound isn't greatly hampered, although the combination isn't "great".

 I don't necessarily think this is a problem for all Zero's, but mine does not like the LT1364. I don't believe there is any real defect in my unit, it sounds fine (actually better than fine) and I spent 15 minutes with a DMM checking everything that was obvious. Probably just a bit touchier than most Zero's about ultra fast opamps in the DAC section. I'm liking OPA627 in the DAC and LT1469 in the amp for now.

 If you check the data sheet, the LT1364 is about as fast an opamp as is commonly available - 1000v/uS and probably is a bit touchy even though it is listed as unity gain stable.

 If anyone else uses the 1364 in the DAC and 1469's in the amp, check the chip temps. If the 1469's are pretty warm, drop something besides a 1364 in the DAC and see if the 1469's don't cool off some without a change in volume. That is a give away there is some inaudible ultrasonics in the signal heating up the amp section.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bada bing* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It has about 30 hours on it.

 The telltale that something is amiss with the LT1364 in the DAC is not that the LT1364 runs hot, but that it makes the LT1469's in the amp section run hot at equivalent volume level. When the 1364's (I tried both I had) were replaced with any other option, the LT1469's run much cooler. The LT1364 is throwing some inaudible oscillations downstream and loading the amp board. The sound isn't greatly hampered, although the combination isn't "great".

 I don't necessarily think this is a problem for all Zero's, but mine does not like the LT1364. I don't believe there is any real defect in my unit, it sounds fine (actually better than fine) and I spent 15 minutes with a DMM checking everything that was obvious. Probably just a bit touchier than most Zero's about ultra fast opamps in the DAC section. I'm liking OPA627 in the DAC and LT1469 in the amp for now.

 If you check the data sheet, the LT1364 is about as fast an opamp as is commonly available - 1000v/uS and probably is a bit touchy even though it is listed as unity gain stable.

 If anyone else uses the 1364 in the DAC and 1469's in the amp, check the chip temps. If the 1469's are pretty warm, drop something besides a 1364 in the DAC and see if the 1469's don't cool off some without a change in volume. That is a give away there is some inaudible ultrasonics in the signal heating up the amp section._

 

Ow, I agree with you. Something is up. But, your Zero isn't burned in yet either. I'm not sure how much or if at all, this could be playing into the audible part, not the heat part. I forget now what the temp was exactly, but the LT1469 was tested up to like 200c without artifacts or anomalies. I'm just concerned that your Zero hasn't had time to mature yet, that's all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Maybe if you ran a different Opamp for now, then came back to it after 100hrs and see if the Zero gets along better with it, or not. I think it's worth a try.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Hi I'm new to the thread, is there any published measurements on this DAC?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi I'm new to the thread, is there any published measurements on this DAC?_

 

Hi DoA, this is the "safe" source to purchase from on ebay, he has all the specs on there too: ZERO 24/192 DAC D A CONVERTOR , HEAD FI AMP , BRAND NEW - eBay (item 330209257065 end time Feb-09-08 16:34:36 PST)


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi I'm new to the thread, is there any published measurements on this DAC?_

 

I've got one of mine under my MKIVse and the other under my MKV! They are almost exactly the same width and depth is almost the same as the MKIVse.
 Very nice little units for sure! Let me know if you need more info!


----------



## edguetzow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ow, I agree with you. Something is up. But, your Zero isn't burned in yet either. I'm not sure how much or if at all, this could be playing into the audible part, not the heat part. I forget now what the temp was exactly, but the LT1469 was tested up to like 200c without artifacts or anomalies. I'm just concerned that your Zero hasn't had time to mature yet, that's all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Maybe if you ran a different Opamp for now, then came back to it after 100hrs and see if the Zero gets along better with it, or not. I think it's worth a try. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

When I tested the 1364 in the DAC on my Zero, it ran hot. I only tested the DAC section and left the stock opamps in the headphone section. I had broken in my Zero for over 200 hours before rolling the DAC chip (1364). I did not like it and settled on the 1469 as DAC for now with the 1361's in the headphone section. This I DO like and I am breaking the 1469 in for awhile before trying another chip.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edguetzow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When I tested the 1364 in the DAC on my Zero, it ran hot. I only tested the DAC section and left the stock opamps in the headphone section. I had broken in my Zero for over 200 hours before rolling the DAC chip (1364). I did not like it and settled on the 1469 as DAC for now with the 1361's in the headphone section. This I DO like and I am breaking the 1469 in for awhile before trying another chip._

 

Yep. I think that was a great combo too.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It has really good low end, right?


----------



## edguetzow

Yeah! I really like the bass in this combo. For me, it is tight and well defined. I can hear the bass guitar notes cleaner and clearer in relation to the drums in rock music.

 Can still hear the pick on the strings as well. Good residual on notes and it doesn't muddy up the mids for me. Still not "perfect" but very satisfying!

 Good night!


----------



## Seba

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've got one of mine under my MKIVse and the other under my MKV! They are almost exactly the same width and depth is almost the same as the MKIVse.
 Very nice little units for sure! Let me know if you need more info!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I did have briefly my Zero under my LD and I think that may have cause the OPA627 to broke and DY2000 to malfunction. MKIV SE makes a lot of heat throughout the case and it warms the already warm Zero even more. I have to make some kind of rack for them to allow the air circulate freely.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seba* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did have briefly my Zero under my LD and I think that may have cause the OPA627 to broke and DY2000 to malfunction. MKIV SE makes a lot of heat throughout the case and it warms the already warm Zero even more. I have to make some kind of rack for them to allow the air circulate freely._

 

I'll be darned! I'll check that out today with my temp gun. I don't want to have my own "meltdown" here in my home office!


----------



## magnetiq

i upgraded my soundcard finally















 the bass has never been deeper, and never this clear, im not sure if it's placebo but it seems now that the Zero is sounding better than ever.

 gift and a curse though, my mo3s sound crap now all of a sudden, but my flacs are seem clearer. heh.

 opamp rolling next!!


----------



## Henmyr

What is the most natural, neutral, cleanest, airiest, most uncolored, good bass presence and texture, not overpowering treble, most transparent and purest op-amp combination for the zero you've(anyone) found yet? Natural and airy and clean are key-words.

 I just can't seem to get the sound to be all that. My previous best combination was LME49720(dac) + LT1469(amp), but I sensed a very slight warm coloration in the mids and a small flowing effect which devoured a lot of the air (the flowing effect(made the music "flow" effortless) was very pleasant, but the slight air lost made it very hard to breath), so in the end I couldn't stand it and had to change.

 The stock does a lot of things right, but I want a little bit more detail, but the coloration, or UNcoloration is very good, as is the air.

 My favorite (for the moment) favorite combination is LT1469(dac)+LME49720(amp) and it sounds very good, but I think I hear the slight midrange coloration of the LT1469 shine through.

 It might be that in the end, beyers, grados/alessandros, or me in general just don't love the LT sound, so I might have to turn to OPA627 or similar.

 Any suggestions?


----------



## davve

can i use LT1469 in dac and also in headphone amp? three lt1469 in the zero.


----------



## Henmyr

I use LT1469 in my dac for the moment, but it is really really hot. If I touch it with my finger I will burn myself, thats how hot it is. Is that bad? I have the LT1469IN8 so it should withstand higher temperature than LT1469CN8 but still.


----------



## davve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I use LT1469 in my dac for the moment, but it is really really hot. If I touch it with my finger I will burn myself, thats how hot it is. Is that bad? I have the LT1469IN8 so it should withstand higher temperature than LT1469CN8 but still._

 


 LT1364 will burn my finger too. I'm testing LT1361 now and its not hot.


----------



## Andreas_D

My Zero arrived few days ago and i'm amazed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 , this is my first headphone dac / amp combo. I can say it's a big improvement from an M-audio sonica theater external soundcard. I didn't wait for the stock opamp to burn in, its has been swapped with 1469 in DAC and 1361 in headphone amp section. It is too early to have an clear opinion, they have only few hours of playing. Btw as first impresion of this combination I can say I like the bass definision and extension, the highs aren't harsh at all. 
 I have a pair of SR60 and I can say they really like Zero
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Soon it will arrive my SR225 and I think there will be more fun. I also have an AkG k601 ,obvious better than SR60, very detalied headphone with a great sound stage but I consider to be not as much involving as Grados.

 There is problem if my coaxial Led is clipping, or sometimes goes off?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What is the most natural, neutral, cleanest, airiest, most uncolored, good bass presence and texture, not overpowering treble, most transparent and purest op-amp combination for the zero you've(anyone) found yet? Natural and airy and clean are key-words.

 I just can't seem to get the sound to be all that. My previous best combination was LME49720(dac) + LT1469(amp), but I sensed a very slight warm coloration in the mids and a small flowing effect which devoured a lot of the air (the flowing effect(made the music "flow" effortless) was very pleasant, but the slight air lost made it very hard to breath), so in the end I couldn't stand it and had to change.

 The stock does a lot of things right, but I want a little bit more detail, but the coloration, or UNcoloration is very good, as is the air.

 My favorite (for the moment) favorite combination is LT1469(dac)+LME49720(amp) and it sounds very good, but I think I hear the slight midrange coloration of the LT1469 shine through.

 It might be that in the end, beyers, grados/alessandros, or me in general just don't love the LT sound, so I might have to turn to OPA627 or similar.

 Any suggestions?_

 

I'm not dissing you, or coming down on you by saying this, but I think saying it, may help others as well. "Don't be too analytical, enjoy the music for a while". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It is so easy to get caught up in the rolling, and never be totally satisfied, when many of the combinations you have found, would easily do the trick. 

 I also would suggest the OPA627's in combination with the LT's. When I was judging both outputs, one of my favorites was the OPA627s in the DAC, LT1469s in the headphone amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It might be worth a listen.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magnetiq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i upgraded my soundcard finally















 the bass has never been deeper, and never this clear, im not sure if it's placebo but it seems now that the Zero is sounding better than ever.

 gift and a curse though, my mo3s sound crap now all of a sudden, but my flacs are seem clearer. heh.

 opamp rolling next!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

There has to be something to the changes in sound cards, even when they are serving as transports. The difference in sound between my notebook optical out and desktop optical out, is very noticeable. Almost exactly what you said.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_can i use LT1469 in dac and also in headphone amp? three lt1469 in the zero._

 

Amazing! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 After all this, I hadn't even thought of that! Let us know how it turns out!!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Andreas_D* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Zero arrived few days ago and i'm amazed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 , this is my first headphone dac / amp combo. I can say it's a big improvement from an M-audio sonica theater external soundcard. I didn't wait for the stock opamp to burn in, its has been swapped with 1469 in DAC and 1361 in headphone amp section. It is too early to have an clear opinion, they have only few hours of playing. Btw as first impresion of this combination I can say I like the bass definision and extension, the highs aren't harsh at all. 
 I have a pair of SR60 and I can say they really like Zero
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Soon it will arrive my SR225 and I think there will be more fun. I also have an AkG k601 ,obvious better than SR60, very detalied headphone with a great sound stage but I consider to be not as much involving as Grados.

 There is problem if my coaxial Led is clipping, or sometimes goes off?_

 

I'm glad things are going well! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Good combinations you are trying too. I would check and see if you have a loose connection on the LED board up front. After shipping, anything is possible.


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Andreas_D* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is problem if my coaxial Led is clipping, or sometimes goes off?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would check and see if you have a loose connection on the LED board up front. After shipping, anything is possible. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It is worth mentioning that the connection on the LED board is soldered. I already tried to detached it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Check the cable and the plug to the main board...


----------



## jamato8

Like having a bunch of Tungsol black glass 6SN7's all in a row. They are great but it is nice to mix it up. I think you get a better texture and excitement to the music but who knows until you try it, right?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Allure* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yup. But anyway, my experiences with opamps have always confirmed that idea.


 Also, for those gifted with synaesthesia, the other idea that each number in the opamp's model number has its specific sonic color has proven absolutely spot on.

 For instance, 3 and 5 are warm sounding numbers one yellowish and the other redish, 4 sounds dead, 6 sounds "correct" but a bit whiteish, 2 sounds greenish, and so on... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Boy, that seems out there. So do you think they really design the opamps to sound a certain way and then number accordingly? Or is it the numbers that either doom or elevate the opamp? AD8397, a little unrefined on the top and slightly bright. So what are the numbers saying there?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Allure* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No there's absolutely nothing intentional about it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's just the universal rule of correspondence between form (names) and content (sounds in our case), even with [very] inanimate things like opamps. Combined with the other principle that the universe is ruled by the numbers - and not merely in a mathematical sense you see. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ok, then how do you define the theory of chaos with numbers that will form a pattern? Or does it matter? Or is the chaos the interacting numbers of an undefined sequence?


----------



## jamato8

And there is nothing to thought of anew, only rediscovered for all possibilities already exist but are to be found and deciphered.


----------



## Alpha 60

Whoa, this is getting way too ontological for a thread about DACS!


----------



## Penchum

I think my head hurts! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Jamato8, have you ordered your Zero yet?


----------



## jamato8

I am looking for a place to land.


----------



## Pete7

Your sig must have flown ahead of you.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pete7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your sig must have flown ahead of you._

 

Yeah, I have been looking for it. So many places it could be.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pete7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your sig must have flown ahead of you._

 










 I'll have to admit, it is one of the better avatars on HeadFi.


----------



## magnetiq

i am so confused.


----------



## fault151

hey guys, been a while since i posted on here, but, im still loving my zero dac and i've just bougt a beresford dac too. i cant wait to compare the two!!! The beresford is supposed to be a great dac! we shall see! I'll let everyone know how i get on. It has quite lot to compete against with the zero!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey guys, been a while since i posted on here, but, im still loving my zero dac and i've just bougt a beresford dac too. i cant wait to compare the two!!! The beresford is supposed to be a great dac! we shall see! I'll let everyone know how i get on. It has quite lot to compete against with the zero!_

 

It's good to see you! I guess we thought you got snowed in somewhere!


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's good to see you! I guess we thought you got snowed in somewhere! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

H aha, nah we hardly ever get snow in the UK, well, not where i am anyway. It's actually really sunny here for a change. Iv been busy with a new job i started last Monday. Its killing me the amount of time i spend at work.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_H aha, nah we hardly ever get snow in the UK, well, not where i am anyway. It's actually really sunny here for a change. Iv been busy with a new job i started last Monday. Its killing me the amount of time i spend at work._

 

Well, congratulations on the new job anyway! Hopefully it means more gear for you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 When I lived in the UK, it snowed like crazy sometimes! Good times and memories for me.


----------



## freakmax

Hello,
 I'm pretty interested in this unit.
 I would like to know how this headphone amp sounds with the Grado RS-1.

 Is there audible hiss when using a low impedence phone like grado?

 Please elaborate.


----------



## davve

Okey an update. I have accomplished to kill my Zero 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I hear no sound from the amp or the lineout, all leds are lightning. I was testing three LT1469 in my zero and listing a few minutes on the built in amp, everything sounded good! okey let's hook up my DV336i, Okey i admitt i connected it when the zero was powerd on and playing music. When i connected it i heard disorted sound for a few seconds and it have not talked to me since then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm gonna send the mainboard to chan so he can have a look on it. But it is holiday now so long time without my precious little toy.


----------



## edguetzow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Okey an update. I have accomplished kill my Zero 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I hear no sound from the amp or the lineout, all leds are lightning. I was testing three LT1469 in my zero and listing a few minutes on the built in amp, everything sounded good! okey let's hook up my DV336i, Okey i admitt i connected it when the zero was powerd on and playing music. When i connected it i heard disorted sound for a few seconds and it have not talked to me since then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm gonna send the mainboard to chan so he can have a look on it. But it is holiday now so long time without my precious little toy._

 

Sorry to hear of your accident! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Did you try to replace the original stock amps back into the Zero? Maybe one of the 1469 chips is bad. The DAC chip services both internal amp and RCA out) so I believe that if it fails you won't get any sound from anything. These are the only changes you can make to test it further. Otherwise, Lawrence is very good at helping after the sale! Email him first.

 Please, let us know what happens.


----------



## davve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edguetzow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry to hear of your accident! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Did you try to replace the original stock amps back into the Zero? Maybe one of the 1469 chips is bad. The DAC chip services both internal amp and RCA out) so I believe that if it fails you won't get any sound from anything. These are the only changes you can make to test it further. Otherwise, Lawrence is very good at helping after the sale! Email him first.

 Please, let us know what happens._

 


 Thanks.
 I have tested put in the stock opamp. No luck. It seems like something else is broken.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edguetzow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry to hear of your accident! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Did you try to replace the original stock amps back into the Zero? Maybe one of the 1469 chips is bad. The DAC chip services both internal amp and RCA out) so I believe that if it fails you won't get any sound from anything. These are the only changes you can make to test it further. Otherwise, Lawrence is very good at helping after the sale! Email him first.

 Please, let us know what happens._

 

Same from me, Davve! I highly respect you for reveling how the accident happened! Many folks would not do such a thing. Your truthfulness will help others to prevent the same kind of accident, and that is a positive thing out of a negative. Thanks so much!!


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks.
 I have tested put in the stock opamp. No luck. It seems like something else is broken._

 

I've tried to have 3 LT1469 in the zero, and mine survived without a problem and sounded perfect (as in sound was coming from it without distortion), so that should not be the problem.


----------



## davve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Same from me, Davve! I highly respect you for reveling how the accident happened! Many folks would not do such a thing. Your truthfulness will help others to prevent the same kind of accident, and that is a positive thing out of a negative. Thanks so much!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 



 I told Mr. Chan the same. And he want's to have a look on it. He's very helpful!!


----------



## davve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've tried to have 3 LT1469 in the zero, and mine survived without a problem and sounded perfect (as in sound was coming from it without distortion), so that should not be the problem._

 

It sounded without distortion to me too. It was when i connected my DV.


----------



## Penchum

I had another thought as well. Somewhere back in this thread, someone had contacted Lawrence and he stepped them through using the built-in reset. I don't remember who it was, but I remember the story. Have you tried anything like a reset with it yet? Also, are all the red lights lit on the mainboard and headboard? Thanks!


----------



## davve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had another thought as well. Somewhere back in this thread, someone had contacted Lawrence and he stepped them through using the built-in reset. I don't remember who it was, but I remember the story. Have you tried anything like a reset with it yet? Also, are all the red lights lit on the mainboard and headboard? Thanks!_

 



 Yes all red lights are ligthing, i have tested the reset button. There's two buttons the other is mute i think?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes all red lights are ligthing, i have tested the reset button. There's two buttons the other is mute i think?_

 

Ok, that sounds right. I don't know the procedure for doing a "reset", other than just pushing it.


----------



## edguetzow

The previous post #563 mentions the reset process as presented by Lawrence to Krendopolis:

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Krendopolis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The headphone output IS the preamp output. If you connect to the rca output on the zero it is like connecting to your cd/dvd player. At that point you are just using the zero as a dac, not a preamplifier (not that there is anything wrong with that). If you want to use it as a preamp you need a cable to convert from the headphone jack to rca inputs on your amp (most likely). That same cable is what most people would be using to connect their computer to their stereo or to convert any headphone signal to stereo rca and costs only a few dollars. Not trying to offend anyone if that seems too basic to be posting here. I was going to buy a nicer cable just for that purpose before my zero stopped functioning 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Lawrence has contacted me, unfortunately his ideas are things I've already done: ie push the reset button on the inside, leave the unit unplugged for a day to see if the caps discharge and it resets itself. The unit seems to function fine as far as powering up, switching inputs etc but bottom line no sound._

 

Evidently Lawrence recommended pushing the reset button on the inside board and unplugging the unit for a day to discharge the caps.

 It is worth a try if you have the time.


----------



## davve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edguetzow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The previous post #563 mentions the reset process as presented by Lawrence to Krendopolis:



 Evidently Lawrence recommended pushing the reset button on the inside board and unplugging the unit for a day to discharge the caps.

 It is worth a try if you have the time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks i will test it. Seems he got the same problem like mine? did he got it fixed?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edguetzow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The previous post #563 mentions the reset process as presented by Lawrence to Krendopolis:



 Evidently Lawrence recommended pushing the reset button on the inside board and unplugging the unit for a day to discharge the caps.

 It is worth a try if you have the time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Great! Thanks for finding it.


----------



## edguetzow

BTW, I am just curious but did you notice a smell coming from your Zero when the accident occurred?

 Often you will smell something burning briefly if there is an electrical short of some sort in the component. This might indicate that you have a board problem and may not be something a reset would fix.

 With all red lights on the board being lit, my hope is that there is an easy fix for you!


----------



## edguetzow

Krendopolis was a new hi-fier and only had 6 posts. He has not posted since the end of the year and last indicated that he was sending the unit to Lawrence to have it repaired. he has not posted since so we don't know the results.

 Could try to pm him and ask about it.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edguetzow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Krendopolis was a new hi-fier and only had 6 posts. He has not posted since the end of the year and last indicated that he was sending the unit to Lawrence to have it repaired. he has not posted since so we don't know the results.

 Could try to pm him and ask about it._

 

Ow, I remember him! He was having a heck of a time. Driving something other than headphones with the headphone amp as I recall. He pretty much killed his unit and no one could help him. I hope he got a replacement!!


----------



## davve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edguetzow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW, I am just curious but did you notice a smell coming from your Zero when the accident occurred?

 Often you will smell something burning briefly if there is an electrical short of some sort in the component. This might indicate that you have a board problem and may not be something a reset would fix.

 With all red lights on the board being lit, my hope is that there is an easy fix for you!_

 

I didn't smell anything, but i'm gonna take out the mainboard and sniff on it!


----------



## edguetzow

I took a moment and pm'ed Krendopolis explaining that we would like to hear about his situation and would like to know the result in order to try and help you with your problem.

 Hope he replies!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edguetzow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I took a moment and pm'ed Krendopolis explaining that we would like to hear about his situation and would like to know the result in order to try and help you with your problem.

 Hope he replies! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Great! Thanks! He may have some additional insight.


----------



## mp101

Mines not behaving wel either, that aside, I did notice that if I push the preamp button now (to light up the Phone LED) the volume to my LittleDot MKV is adustable with the volume on the Zero, it didnt do that before, only since I have installed the LT1364's


----------



## davve

Here's som pics! one of the chip got some soldering on it. I don't know if everything seems okay.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mp101* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mines not behaving wel either, that aside, I did notice that if I push the preamp button now (to light up the Phone LED) the volume to my LittleDot MKV is adustable with the volume on the Zero, it didnt do that before, only since I have installed the LT1364's_

 

That's a new one for sure! What happens when you power off and power back up? Does it reset itself to normal behavior?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's som pics! one of the chip got some soldering on it. I don't know if everything seems okay._

 

Is that just resin that has heated up and ran?


----------



## davve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mp101* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mines not behaving wel either, that aside, I did notice that if I push the preamp button now (to light up the Phone LED) the volume to my LittleDot MKV is adustable with the volume on the Zero, it didnt do that before, only since I have installed the LT1364's_

 

Mine did the same but with the stock opamps too. I don't think nothing is wrong.


----------



## edguetzow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's a new one for sure! What happens when you power off and power back up? Does it reset itself to normal behavior?_

 

I had posted that my unit was doing this when I first got it. If you hook up an separate amp to the RCA outs, then push the "Preamp" button to light up the green "Phone" light - you then can control the volume going out to your separate amp.

 Penchum, I had agreed with you when you indicated that I just keep the volume knob on the Zero at minimum (zero) and let the external separate amp do the volume control. This is what I have been doing all along and it works fine.

 So, for me, it has always functioned in this manner. I now have the 1469 in the DAC with 2 LT1361's in the headphone amps.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edguetzow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had posted that my unit was doing this when I first got it. If you hook up an separate amp to the RCA outs, then push the "Preamp" button to light up the green "Phone" light - you then can control the volume going out to your separate amp.

 Penchum, I had agreed with you when you indicated that I just keep the volume knob on the Zero at minimum (zero) and let the external separate amp do the volume control. This is what I have been doing all along and it works fine.

 So, for me, it has always functioned in this manner. I now have the 1469 in the DAC with 2 LT1361's in the headphone amps. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

OMG 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am so sorry! What an idiot I was! When you told me that, I had my amp hooked to the Zero, so I pressed the phones, got a green light, and my amp was silent. I took that to mean it was "not connected", that is, until I just gave the Zero volume knob a twist!! 

 Here is what is happening. It behaves like this until you plug in another set of headphones into the Zero. As soon as you do this, it cuts off the pre-out completely.


----------



## Penchum

As far as I can tell, having it in this "variable" output mode, seems clean and clear. I don't believe it will hurt anything and it actually is kind of nice, if your amp doesn't like the normal high output of the Zero. What do you think? This would help with using a portable amp as a desktop amp, for sure.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edguetzow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had posted that my unit was doing this when I first got it. If you hook up an separate amp to the RCA outs, then push the "Preamp" button to light up the green "Phone" light - you then can control the volume going out to your separate amp.

 Penchum, I had agreed with you when you indicated that I just keep the volume knob on the Zero at minimum (zero) and let the external separate amp do the volume control. This is what I have been doing all along and it works fine.

 So, for me, it has always functioned in this manner. I now have the 1469 in the DAC with 2 LT1361's in the headphone amps. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Do you like this combination better than the others?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mp101* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mines not behaving wel either, that aside, I did notice that if I push the preamp button now (to light up the Phone LED) the volume to my LittleDot MKV is adustable with the volume on the Zero, it didnt do that before, only since I have installed the LT1364's_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine did the same but with the stock opamps too. I don't think nothing is wrong._

 

I'm sorry, both of you guys. I should have understood this much earlier. No, I don't think anything is wrong. It has been wired this way and we just didn't know it was a "feature". Normally, there would be no need for this, but if you had a portable amp, that you wanted to use as a desktop amp, you could hook it up to the pre-amp outputs (RCA) and go into this variable mode and not overdrive the portable amp. I just tested my MK1 with it, and it was great to back down the output, so the volume control on the MK1 had some maneuvering room!


----------



## mp101

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As far as I can tell, having it in this "variable" output mode, seems clean and clear. I don't believe it will hurt anything and it actually is kind of nice, if your amp doesn't like the normal high output of the Zero. What do you think? This would help with using a portable amp as a desktop amp, for sure. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thats exactly what I thought, every time I listened to it (Zero) I plugged in phones, hit the button and turned up the volume, I never had phones in the MKV and the Zero at the same time.

 I just thought that when the preamp button was on it reduced the volume to the phono out sockets, but all the time it was controlling the volume.

 So i guess the statememt that it is a pre-amp is true. Its all good


----------



## edguetzow

No problem, Penchum!

 As far as the photos of davve's board, it is hard for me to tell. The resin is discolored (?) in the first photo. I don't like seeing the resin on the chips in the other pictures either. Could just be the photos.

 davve, do the solder points look burned or otherwise unusual? It is hard for me to tell from the photos. Either they didn't clean up the board or the resin could be discolored from heat. Did you smell anything?

 Also, this may be dumb question, but did you try a different set of headphones with the Zero? Maybe your phones (heaven forbid!) got fried instead of the Zero!

 Stay positive and hope for the best! At least Lawrence responded to you rather quickly!!


----------



## Penchum

The very bottom pic, the bottom chip, might be worth cleaning off to see if the surface of the chip shows signs of overheating (melting,smudging). It looks a little bumpy to me.?


----------



## edguetzow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you like this combination better than the others? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes! So far at least! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I tried the 1364 in the DAC position but the bass was boomy and formless - without structure or "loose". With the 1469, the bass is big but controlled and tight. It doesn't seem to affect the midrange either. Highs are more clear and defined for me too.

 I will be listening to this for a while before trying the something else. Mind you, I am not using the headphone out as I am using my Gilmore. But the few times I tried the 1361's they were very comparable and almost as good for me as the Gilmore - but not quite!!


----------



## davve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edguetzow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No problem, Penchum!

 As far as the photos of davve's board, it is hard for me to tell. The resin is discolored (?) in the first photo. I don't like seeing the resin on the chips in the other pictures either. Could just be the photos.

 davve, do the solder points look burned or otherwise unusual? It is hard for me to tell from the photos. Either they didn't clean up the board or the resin could be discolored from heat. Did you smell anything?

 Also, this may be dumb question, but did you try a different set of headphones with the Zero? Maybe your phones (heaven forbid!) got fried instead of the Zero!

 Stay positive and hope for the best! At least Lawrence responded to you rather quickly!!_

 


 What is resin? maybe resin is normal? I have my DV connected to my AP192 so my HD650 is working.


----------



## edguetzow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The very bottom pic, the bottom chip, might be worth cleaning off to see if the surface of the chip shows signs of overheating (melting,smudging). It looks a little bumpy to me.?_

 

I thought the same thing about the chip in photo #2 as well.


----------



## davve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The very bottom pic, the bottom chip, might be worth cleaning off to see if the surface of the chip shows signs of overheating (melting,smudging). It looks a little bumpy to me.?_

 

I have cleaned it, it seems okay.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have cleaned it, it seems okay._

 

Good. I just wanted to make sure. The only other thing you could check is to look closely at every chip's top surface for a tell-tale sign of head damage, usually a circle spot that has turned to liquid and cooled. Then I guess look closely at the fuses, and connections. Let me know if you find anything suspicious.


----------



## edguetzow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good. I just wanted to make sure. The only other thing you could check is to look closely at every chip's top surface for a tell-tale sign of head damage, usually a circle spot that has turned to liquid and cooled. Then I guess look closely at the fuses, and connections. Let me know if you find anything suspicious._

 

Ditto. Also look at the cylinder like components on the board (capacitors?). There are quite a few in different colors and sizes. Look at the tops of each - usually silver with what looks like a faint "cross" or "X" etched in the top. Look for any that look "popped" or bubbling upward or out.

 Get us more photos of the top of the board if you can, too!!

 Going out for bit, check with you later!


----------



## Penchum

I'd really like it to be a fuse. That would make my day.


----------



## Fremen

Compared to the zero photos of Davve, I don't have this cap and resistors soldered down the board.. strange mod...
 Anyway.
 There are two relays on the board (2 yellow boxes), one is powered when there is a signal coming into the zero, and the other one when you push the preamp button (green light "phone" on).

 Do you, Davve, can ear a "clic", showing that the relays are working?
 - Zero on + signal to zero -> one clic
 - push the preamp button -> one clic

 If you have a voltmeter, you can check the -15V and +15V used for the opamps (on the main board connector of the three black wires going from the main board to the preamp board. the middle wire is 0V, the others are + and - 15V).
 BTW, I had to trim the adjustable resistors (blue ones labeled pot_1 and pot_2) because the tensions where unbalanced when the zero came: +14.8V and -15V


----------



## edguetzow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fremen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Compared to the zero photos of Davve, I don't have this cap and resistors soldered down the board.. strange mod...
 Anyway.
 There are two relays on the board (2 yellow boxes), one is powered when there is a signal coming into the zero, and the other one when you push the preamp button (green light "phone" on).

 Do you, Davve, can ear a "clic", showing that the relays are working?
 - Zero on + signal to zero -> one clic
 - push the preamp button -> one clic

 If you have a voltmeter, you can check the -15V and +15V used for the opamps (on the main board connector of the three black wires going from the main board to the preamp board. the middle wire is 0V, the others are + and - 15V).
 BTW, I had to trim the adjustable resistors (blue ones labeled pot_1 and pot_2) because the tensions where unbalanced when the zero came: +14.8V and -15V_

 

Yes, I can see the difference in the photos. Somehow, davve's board has a cap and resistors soldered from the bottom while Fremen's does not. Davve's is different. Some sort of workaround at assembly? It may be a clue to his problem.

 Time will tell!


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Okey an update. I have accomplished to kill my Zero 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I hear no sound from the amp or the lineout, all leds are lightning._

 

Sorry to hear that... you wrote "all leds are lightning".

 What about the LEDs on the front panel? Are they lit too? Always or only if you push the related button?

 On the mail board:
 The LEDs "reset" and "mute" are lit too? Not blinking if you push the related button?
 What about the LED between the optical and coaxial connector? Does it lit only if you connect a source to the Zero?


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edguetzow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had posted that my unit was doing this when I first got it. If you hook up an separate amp to the RCA outs, then push the "Preamp" button to light up the green "Phone" light - you then can control the volume going out to your separate amp.

 Penchum, I had agreed with you when you indicated that I just keep the volume knob on the Zero at minimum (zero) and let the external separate amp do the volume control. This is what I have been doing all along and it works fine.

 So, for me, it has always functioned in this manner. I now have the 1469 in the DAC with 2 LT1361's in the headphone amps. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Does your LT1469 get hot when you have it in the dac? Mine gets really hot so I dare not to use it that way, shame when it sounded rather good.


----------



## davve

Thanks to everyone! all being very helpful!

 All leds lit on the front too.
 When i power on the zero it clicks and if i push the preamp button it clicks.


----------



## Seba

I have some components under the main board too. Everything works ok.


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All leds lit on the front too._

 

If the 4 front LEDs are lit simultaneously the microcontroller is not working well.
 It initializes the input receiver and the DAC. Without that or with a wrong initialization it's possible that you can't hear anything.

 What happens if you press "mute", does the LED blink?


----------



## davve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If the 4 front LEDs are lit simultaneously the microcontroller is not working well.
 It initializes the input receiver and the DAC. Without that or with a wrong initialization it's possible that you can't hear anything.

 What happens if you press "mute", does the LED blink?_

 

Ohh did'nt mean all, if i press coax the led lit and not the optical.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ohh did'nt mean all, if i press coax the led lit and not the optical._

 

Hey Davve, you did say your DV is ok, right? You have something to listen too in the mean time?


----------



## davve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Davve, you did say your DV is ok, right? You have something to listen too in the mean time?_

 

Yes i have it connected to my AP192. Have you seen my new pics on page 163?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes i have it connected to my AP192. Have you seen my new pics on page 163?_

 

Great! I would have hated it if you had nothing to listen too! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've been looking over those nice new pics. The only thing I have noticed (and it may be nothing) is: In the second pic down, that big "Sync MOS" chip looks like it had something wrong with it. On the end of it closest to the camera, you can see where it looks like something has ran down from the pin layer of the chip (middle of the end), to underneath the chip. Like it spewed something out that end?


----------



## davve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great! I would have hated it if you had nothing to listen too! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've been looking over those nice new pics. The only thing I have noticed (and it may be nothing) is: In the second pic down, that big "Sync MOS" chip looks like it had something wrong with it. On the end of it closest to the camera, you can see where it looks like something has ran down from the pin layer of the chip (middle of the end), to underneath the chip. Like it spewed something out that end?_

 

I took out the chip and had a closer look. It looked just fine!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I took out the chip. It looked just fine!_

 

Ok, good. Everything appears to be fine, as far as I can see from the pics. I don't see any obvious signs of a bad component. Great pics though! What are you going to do next? Just curious.
 Thanks!


----------



## davve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, good. Everything appears to be fine, as far as I can see from the pics. I don't see any obvious signs of a bad component. Great pics though! What are you going to do next? Just curious.
 Thanks!_

 


 Thank you! 

 I don't know what to do next, wait for Mr.Chan's holiday to end?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you! 

 I don't know what to do next, wait for Mr.Chan's holiday to end?_

 

If he's answering his emails, you probably should arrange to send it to him, and get it on it's way, so when the holiday is over, he'll have it and check it out. Hopefully, this would be ok with him. That is all I can think of. One thing is certain, the sooner you get it to him, the sooner you get it back, fixed.


----------



## Byrdman

Can I swap an op amp if I don't know what an op amp is? Do I need any tools?


----------



## edguetzow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does your LT1469 get hot when you have it in the dac? Mine gets really hot so I dare not to use it that way, shame when it sounded rather good._

 

Hi, Henmyr! Yes, I am using this for my DAC and it gets very hot to the touch but seems to work just fine. I have had it in the Zero for about 2 weeks and listen to it constantly - probably 2 to 5 hours almost every evening that I am on the web (about every other evening).


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edguetzow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, Henmyr! Yes, I am using this for my DAC and it gets very hot to the touch but seems to work just fine. I have had it in the Zero for about 2 weeks and listen to it constantly - probably 2 to 5 hours almost every evening that I am on the web (about every other evening)._

 

I double checked the LT1469 and it was tested for up to 150c temperatures, with 0 failures. That is pretty impressive if you ask me.


----------



## edguetzow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Byrdman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can I swap an op amp if I don't know what an op amp is? Do I need any tools?_

 

Hi, Byrdman! Welcome to Head-fi, sorry about your wallet!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Opamp is short for operational amplifier. You have 3 opamps in the Zero that we have been "rolling" or changing out. One is in the DAC position (OPA2604) and is the digital to analog converting chip. Two others are in the headphone-out board and amplify the signal for both left and right channels of your headphones. The DAC chip (1) is a 2 channel chip, the headphone amps (2) are single channel.

 The Zero was designed to allow the user to customize the sound of the unit to their taste by switching out (rolling) these opamps.

 It is very easy to do. Turn off the unit, remove the cover (there are 6 screws), ground yourself by touching the case or other metal grounded object (to eliminate static electricity that can harm your chips) and look for the chip you want to change. They remove easily with needle-nose pliers or a chip puller. Be careful not to apply too much pressure - just enought to wiggle the chip loose.

 Many here are getting chips free from the manufacturers as samples. Linear Technology is one of the more common ones. Take some time to read through this long discussion thread to get ideas. Penchum's original post (OP) has photos and lists combinations of chips that he has tried. Or do search of this thread for a particular chip that you are interested in.

 Good to have you "onboard"!!


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The only thing I have noticed (and it may be nothing) is: In the second pic down, that big "Sync MOS" chip looks like it had something wrong with it._

 

FYI that's the microcontroller.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I took out the chip and had a closer look. It looked just fine!_

 

@all:
 Some piece of advice... check for ESD: wikipedia 

 Shortly before you touch any circuit (especially CMOS) like the DAC, touch your radiator, the water line or anything which is electroconductive and earthed.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edguetzow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, Henmyr! Yes, I am using this for my DAC and it gets very hot to the touch but seems to work just fine. I have had it in the Zero for about 2 weeks and listen to it constantly - probably 2 to 5 hours almost every evening that I am on the web (about every other evening)._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I double checked the LT1469 and it was tested for up to 150c temperatures, with 0 failures. That is pretty impressive if you ask me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Great. I have the LT1469IN8 so it should probably work even better then. Will probably put it back in the dac.


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edguetzow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, I am using this for my DAC and it gets very hot to the touch but seems to work just fine._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I double checked the LT1469 and it was tested for up to 150c temperatures, with 0 failures. That is pretty impressive if you ask me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

They are about 1$ and with some thermal conductance paste you can probably rest easily: Heatsink for DIL-8


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They are about 1$ and with some thermal conductance paste you can probably rest easily: Heatsink for DIL-8_

 

Great find! Thanks! I had been looking for some of these.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They are about 1$ and with some thermal conductance paste you can probably rest easily: Heatsink for DIL-8_

 

Prior to you showing us the "correct" ones, I had been looking at these: Newegg.com - Thermaltake CL-C0025 RAM Heatsink - Retail
 I thought I'd mod them for a better fit, since they are copper and easy to file.


----------



## davve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great find! Thanks! I had been looking for some of these. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The link doesen't work for me? I'm coming to this site Farnell Export


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The like doesen't work for me? I'm coming to this site Farnell Export_

 

Sorry, URL is corrected.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They are about 1$ and with some thermal conductance paste you can probably rest easily: Heatsink for DIL-8_


----------



## edguetzow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They are about 1$ and with some thermal conductance paste you can probably rest easily: Heatsink for DIL-8_

 

Thanks, Kmel!!

 When I go to that link I get a page listing all worldwide distributors for the heatsink. I picked one of them (Hungary) and was sent to their site (in English) and did a search of their items. Found it.

 Now I feel funny ordering 1 heatsink at 0.20 pound with shipping!!


----------



## strologu

Hi everybody,
 i'm just brand new on head-fi, so let me say hello to everybody one more time!
 I've started reading this long looong thread on the Zero DAC, and..mmmm...it seems so interesting!
 I'm sure the DAC section is pretty nice, maybe not the last word in high-end converters, but it looks like a very nice unit.
 The headphone amp section is what makes me wonder hot good it could be..there are someone who have tried the built.in amop of the Zero DAC with my cheap and beloved Sony mdr-7506?


----------



## biph911

Received mine yesterday. I've got 627s in the DAC and 1469s in the amp section. I'll report back once it's burned in.

 Definitely going to increase the resistor size in the LED board. Those things are bright.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *biph911* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Received mine yesterday. I've got 627s in the DAC and 1469s in the amp section. I'll report back once it's burned in.

 Definitely going to increase the resistor size in the LED board. Those things are bright._

 

Yep, they sure do get your attention! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Do you know a good source for 4.7kOhm 1% resistors for that, or will 5% work as well?
 Thanks! ANYONE !!!!!!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *strologu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi everybody,
 i'm just brand new on head-fi, so let me say hello to everybody one more time!
 I've started reading this long looong thread on the Zero DAC, and..mmmm...it seems so interesting!
 I'm sure the DAC section is pretty nice, maybe not the last word in high-end converters, but it looks like a very nice unit.
 The headphone amp section is what makes me wonder hot good it could be..there are someone who have tried the built.in amop of the Zero DAC with my cheap and beloved Sony mdr-7506?_

 






 Hi Strologu,

 I'm not sure if anyone has driven a set of those Sony's before. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But, I can give you some info on the headphone amp. It's a dual mono design, has Opamps in sockets, so you can customize it's sound, and it is quite powerful. Many current owners (me included) are driving 300ohm headphones with ease.

 When I changed from MP4 player, amp, to my HD-650s; to lossless files from my computer, optical out to the Zero, and used the built-in headphone amp, I was shocked at how much better it really sounds! Now, I have my Little-Dot MKIVse tube amp hooked up the Zero's DAC output, and the sound is incredible.

 Some nights, I like to listen to something other than my tube amps, and I just plug into the Zero's headphone amp. It really does sound great. The price sure is nice, according to the wife!


----------



## strologu

Quote:








 Hi Strologu, 
 

Hi,
 glad to to talk with you, and thank you for the info.

  Quote:


 I'm not sure if anyone has driven a set of those Sony's before. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But, I can give you some info on the headphone amp. It's a dual mono design, has Opamps in sockets, so you can customize it's sound, and it is quite powerful. Many current owners (me included) are driving 300ohm headphones with ease. 
 

..mmm..it sounds good! It seems to be a nice design..

  Quote:


 Now, I have my Little-Dot MKIVse tube amp hooked up the Zero's DAC output, and the sound is incredible.
 Some nights, I like to listen to something other than my tube amps, and I just plug into the Zero's headphone amp. It really does sound great. The price sure is nice, according to the wife! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 

[/QUOTE]

 So the built-in amp, for what you're writing, seems to sounds as good as the Little Dot MKIV..am I right? Is it also tube-like sounding?
 Thanks in advance


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *strologu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,
 glad to to talk with you, and thank you for the info.



 ..mmm..it sounds good! It seems to be a nice design..
_

 

So the built-in amp, for what you're writing, seems to sounds as good as the Little Dot MKIV..am I right? Is it also tube-like sounding?
 Thanks in advance 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




[/QUOTE]

 Ow, ok, to clarify my sloppiness 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The built in headphone amp is solid state. Different Opamps will "flavor" the sound, and you can go warmer, or brighter, those kinds of things. My MKIVse is hooked to the DAC outputs of the Zero (RCA's on the back). One click of the Phones/Pre-amp switch on the front of the Zero, and you re-direct the DACs output from "built-in headphone amp" to RCA outputs in the rear...to my MKIVse.

 No, the built-in headphone amp isn't as good as my MKIVse tube amp. But, it is good in it's own wright. It is going to sound better than portables, and it is going to sound better than headphone out jacks in receivers and the like. 

 What makes the Zero a perfect upgrade "stepping stone" is the fact that you can get one, and listen to clean solid state from your digital sources, using your headphones, right away. Later on, after saving up some money, you can add a tube amp or solid state amp for a more ultimate experience. You'll have all the bases covered!
 Does that make sense? If not, tell me please.


----------



## strologu

Hi Penchum,
 thanks a lot, first of all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 No, the built-in headphone amp isn't as good as my MKIVse tube amp. But, it is good in it's own wright. It is going to sound better than portables, and it is going to sound better than headphone out jacks in receivers and the like. 
 

That's what i need to know, just to understand how high can fly the built-in amp. But now, i don't know if it could be better or not than my actual amp..
 i normally listen to lossless files with my laptop and a Digidesign Mbox2 Mini as DAC/amp...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...

  Quote:


 What makes the Zero a perfect upgrade "stepping stone" is the fact that you can get one, and listen to clean solid state from your digital sources, using your headphones, right away. Later on, after saving up some money, you can add a tube amp or solid state amp for a more ultimate experience. You'll have all the bases covered!
 Does that make sense? If not, tell me please. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 

Oh yeah, it make sense! This DAC/amp seems the rightest thing on heart to start building a nice system without crying at the wallet


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *strologu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Penchum,
 thanks a lot, first of all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 That's what i need to know, just to understand how high can fly the built-in amp. But now, i don't know if it could be better or not than my actual amp..
 i normally listen to lossless files with my laptop and a Digidesign Mbox2 Mini as DAC/amp...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







...



 Oh yeah, it make sense! This DAC/amp seems the rightest thing on heart to start building a nice system without crying at the wallet
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well, I'm unfamiliar with the Mbox2 mini, so I can't really speak to that. Maybe one of the users here can chime in and tell us.?


----------



## strologu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I'm unfamiliar with the Mbox2 mini, so I can't really speak to that. Maybe one of the users here can chime in and tell us.?_

 

Would it be nice if someone could tell something about it (argh! hope i'm writing correctly..my english is terribly rusty
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
 Anyway, if i would try the Zero, which opamp do you recommend to have a warm sound? Maybe i could order the Zero with right opamp in..


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *strologu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would it be nice if someone could tell something about it (argh! hope i'm writing correctly..my english is terribly rusty
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
 Anyway, if i would try the Zero, which opamp do you recommend to have a warm sound? Maybe i could order the Zero with right opamp in.._

 

For a warmer sound, Lawrence (the seller on ebay most have used) can also sell you the OPA627s, (which are single Opamps, so you have to have two of them on an adapter) and he puts them in for you. He also gives you the default Opamp, even though you upgraded. The OPA627s are warmer and richer than any of the other Opamps we have tried so far. Very recommended. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ow, and your english is just fine.


----------



## strologu

Quote:


 The OPA627s are warmer and richer than any of the other Opamps we have tried so far. Very recommended. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 

Thanks for the suggestion 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The OPA267's should be mounted on the amp section, right?
  Quote:


 Ow, and your english is just fine. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 

I did'nt expected
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 I'll be on-line tomorrow..it's time to sleep in my side of the planet (00:35 AM at the moment)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Thanks in advice


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you know a good source for 4.7kOhm 1% resistors for that, or will 5% work as well?_

 

Everything works fine: 4.7kOhm up to 10kOhm, 1% up to 10%, but 500mW should be fixed.

 Source... Radio Shack? It's less than 0.01$, perhaps you have to buy 10. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Or go to an electronics store near by a technical university.

 You can look at digikey.com and newark.com, which is the US version of Farnell.

 Found more heatsinks: Heat Sinks for DIP


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *strologu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the suggestion 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The OPA267's should be mounted on the amp section, right?

 I did'nt expected
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 I'll be on-line tomorrow..it's time to sleep in my side of the planet (00:35 AM at the moment)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Thanks in advice_

 

Actually, the OPA627's would go into the DAC section. The DAC does influence the overall sound of the Headphone amp section. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Good night!


----------



## aural1ty

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great. I have the LT1469IN8 so it should probably work even better then. Will probably put it back in the dac._

 

Please do! I really enjoyed reading about your earlier opamp tests so I've been looking forward to your impressions of using the LT1469 in the DAC! I remember you wrote it was maybe the next one in line for trying.. Well, the LT1469 seems pretty hot for DAC duty so I say let it do it's thing! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm still new to opamps so starting to get the hang of it but please correct me if I'm wrong, anyway I was thinking about high temps:

 The AMP board takes 2 dual chips for a total of 4 opamps. Assuming it only uses one opamp for each sound channel, then only 1/2 in the left chip and 1/2 in the right chip are used.

 The DAC board takes 1 dual chip for a total of 2 opamps. Assuming it uses both opamps for both sound channels, then both opamps in the chip are used.

 So I think a dual opamp chip should then consume twice as much power when inserted in the DAC socket, compared to an AMP socket, meaning twice the heat dissipation.

 Somewhere back in the thread is was mentioned that high temp could be a sign of oscillating which I guess is true, but I don't think that's the case with the Zero and these opamps, they seem to work perfectly and I think it's just the huge power consumption difference. Looking at these numbers I understand the other seemed really hot after using the LT1057:

 Supply Current Per Amplifier:

 LT1057: 1.7mA typ - 2.8mA max
 LT1361: 4.0mA typ - 5.0mA max
 LT1469: 4.1mA typ - 5.2mA max
 LT1364: 6.3mA typ - 7.5mA max

 The LT1057 should come out coolest, LT1361 and LT1469 much warmer and LT1364 the hottest of these, and if my theory is correct, each of them run warmer in the DAC socket than in the AMP sockets.

 Anyway, these LT chips seem capable of operating at very high temperatures, like Penchum posted they're apparently good for up to 150'C internally so should be no worries. I guess it's easy enough to put a VGA RAM sink on it or something but as long as it's within spec that's pretty useless. Temperature should not affect performance unless it goes out of spec (at which case you may be more concerned with permanent damage). Say the case would be 10'C warmer than the room temp, no let's say 20'C warmer. On top of that have a room temp of 35'C now that would be 55'C air temp inside! Even this 55'C condition would still not push it, it's well within the specified operating range from -40'C to 85'C. Think it's pretty safe to say there's Zero chance of overheating in this case


----------



## Penchum

I'm not exactly sure how it is routed in the headphone amp, since it is a dual mono design. However, I'm still under the impression that the heat is not only within normal limits, but has nothing to do with oscillations or instabilities. I think a small chip cooler stuck on there, and we'll never give it another thought. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 When we tried the AD797's on an adapter in the DAC, it was most definitely heating up due to some high frequency problems! It sounded like psychedelic liquid highs on acid and downers! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Those little b_stards got hot quick too! That was the only time I was worried about trashing my Zero.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Everything works fine: 4.7kOhm up to 10kOhm, 1% up to 10%, but 500mW should be fixed.

 Source... Radio Shack? It's less than 0.01$, perhaps you have to buy 10. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Or go to an electronics store near by a technical university.

 You can look at digikey.com and newark.com, which is the US version of Farnell.

 Found more heatsinks: Heat Sinks for DIP_

 


 Thanks Kmel,
 The last place my mind goes thinking about electronics is Radio Shack, but you are right. They will have them and cheap too.


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aural1ty* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Somewhere back in the thread is was mentioned that high temp could be a sign of oscillating which I guess is true, but I don't think that's the case with the Zero and these opamps, they seem to work perfectly and I think it's just the huge power consumption difference. Looking at these numbers I understand the other seemed really hot after using the LT1057:

 Supply Current Per Amplifier:

 LT1057: 1.7mA typ - 2.8mA max
 LT1361: 4.0mA typ - 5.0mA max
 LT1469: 4.1mA typ - 5.2mA max
 LT1364: 6.3mA typ - 7.5mA max_

 

IMO the supply current is used even the opamp isn't amplify anything. I don't think that is the only cause of the high temperature.

 I found following statement on physicsforums:
  Quote:


 The only thing that will make an opamp hot is if its output current spec is exceeded, which you're not going to do when you pin the output open circuit one way or the other. 
 

Let's take a look at the current output:

 OPA2604: 35mA typ (standard Zero type)
 LT1057: ???
 LT1361: 34mA typ
 LT1364: 60mA typ
 LT1469: 22mA typ

 If the Zero takes more than 22mA the LT1469 is running hot.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IMO the supply current is used even the opamp isn't amplify anything. I don't think that is the only cause of the high temperature.

 I found following statement on physicsforums:


 Let's take a look at the current output:

 OPA2604: 35mA typ (standard Zero type)
 LT1057: ???
 LT1361: 34mA typ
 LT1364: 60mA typ
 LT1469: 22mA typ

 If the Zero takes more than 22mA the LT1469 is running hot._

 

I'm following you here, but why would the LT1364 get even hotter? Or was the LT1469 hotter than the LT1364? Anyone? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Also, those are typical ratings. The maximum ratings require math beyond my capabilities and direct measurements from the Zero. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Anyone with a Zero, a good volt meter and math skills want to take a crack at it?


----------



## edguetzow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IMO the supply current is used even the opamp isn't amplify anything. I don't think that is the only cause of the high temperature.

 I found following statement on physicsforums:


 Let's take a look at the current output:

 OPA2604: 35mA typ (standard Zero type)
 LT1057: ???
 LT1361: 34mA typ
 LT1364: 60mA typ
 LT1469: 22mA typ

 If the Zero takes more than 22mA the LT1469 is running hot._

 

I seem to recall that the 1364 ran very hot also. At 60mA it should not have begun heating up as compared to the stock OPA2604.

 Seemed like it was just as hot as the 1469 but I am judging strictly by touch.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edguetzow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I seem to recall that the 1364 ran very hot also. At 60mA it should not have begun heating up as compared to the stock OPA2604.

 Seemed like it was just as hot as the 1469 but I am judging strictly by touch. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I think you are right. I honestly hadn't given it much thought, beyond "that's hot". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What is bothering me the most, is that I've been using one of my Zero's with the LT1364 in the DAC for a very long time now. I wonder if we should be worried or not.


----------



## Penchum

I've also been using the LT1364 in my MK1 portable, with outstanding results! I really believe it is out performing the majority of portable amps on the market! Go figure!


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aural1ty* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Please do! I really enjoyed reading about your earlier opamp tests so I've been looking forward to your impressions of using the LT1469 in the DAC! I remember you wrote it was maybe the next one in line for trying.. Well, the LT1469 seems pretty hot for DAC duty so I say let it do it's thing! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I hit the wall right after the LME49720 test, and only heard the imperfections in the op-amps, the small colorations. I have taken a small break to get back on enjoying the music again as well as the zero. I will do the LT1469 test soon I think however. Have ordered two OPA627AP also to use as dac. 

 I'm using LT1469 in the dac now with LME49720 in the amp, and it is a good combination, as was LME49720(dac) + LT1469(amp).


----------



## strologu

Hi Henmyr,
 i've just seen that you're using this unit as amp too, with a Beyer DT-990, a headphone i know pretty well.
 Can you tell me how does it sounds, compared to the Meyer dedicated amp? 
 Thanks in advance


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *strologu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Henmyr,
 i've just seen that you're using this unit as amp too, with a Beyer DT-990, a headphone i know pretty well.
 Can you tell me how does it sounds, compared to the Meyer dedicated amp? 
 Thanks in advance 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

They are very similar. At first, when the zero was new, it was very clear and sharp, much more clear than H5, but now after burn-in it's more mellow than before, and approching the H5 more and more. 

 With LME49720 (same as LM4562) (dac) + LT1469 (amp) the tonality is also very similar to H5, although the zero is just slightly very slightly more clear.

 I have a hard time comparing the two (especially with dt990, as they have a very significant signature), but I would say that they are about equals. 

 The soundstage might be slightly larger than the H5, depends on what Op-amps are in.

 The H5 has a very natural sound and good timber, something which the zero is just slightly slightly very slightly worse than H5 (this might be corrected with the right op-amp combination).

 Overall, I have a very hard time to declare a winner during my short test.

 There might be a very good op-amp combination for zero with dt990 which puts it significantly ahead, but I haven't found that for dt990 yet (and maybe never will, as I'm getting closer and closer to selling them).

 This was tested with the DT990. With dt880 and ms2i, I think (must listen more) that I prefer the zero.

 I hope that the zero will clear up with more burn-in, because I liked the clear sound it had in the beginning very much. I'm hoping OPA627 will bring some air also.


----------



## mrarroyo

Has anyone compared this Zero Dac w/ an Oritek modded Zhaolu? Thanks.


----------



## strologu

Hi Henmyr,
  Quote:


 Overall, I have a very hard time to declare a winner during my short test. 
 

thanks a lot for your answer. So also the built-in amp is a little-killer one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote:


 I'm hoping OPA627 will bring some air also. 
 

I'm gonna buy a unit with OPA627 on DAC, but i'm really confused about which opamp for amp section, do you have any suggestion?
 My phones are the Sony mdr-7506, that are a bit brilliant..
 Thanks in advance


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone compared this Zero Dac w/ an Oritek modded Zhaolu? Thanks._

 


 I wonder how many gullible people would be willing to pay additional $700 for such negligible mods compared to the original Zhaolu, it costs 7 times more
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Get a life (and a Zero, of course...)


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *strologu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Henmyr,

 thanks a lot for your answer. So also the built-in amp is a little-killer one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm gonna buy a unit with OPA627 on DAC, but i'm really confused about which opamp for amp section, do you have any suggestion?
 My phones are the Sony mdr-7506, that are a bit brilliant..
 Thanks in advance 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The op-amps in the amp are very dependent on the op-amp in the dac, so I can't know at this moment which op-amp will be best with OPA627 in the dac. I find the LT1469 and LME49720 (same as LM4652) to be the best overall so far for the amp with dt880/ms2i/dt990.

 EDIT: Do not neglect the stock op-amp combination, as I find it to very enjoyable with every headphone.


----------



## Pete7

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone compared this Zero Dac w/ an Oritek modded Zhaolu? Thanks._

 

How about just an unmodded Zhaolu?


----------



## Pete7

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wonder how many gullible people would be willing to pay additional $700 for such negligible mods compared to the original Zhaolu, it costs 7 times more
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Get a life (and a Zero, of course...)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Haven't been around very long,eh? The last time I checked Ori sent out a brand new modded unit for close to $450. Discrete output isn't what you'd call a "negligible" mod, like say swapping out an op-amp.


----------



## strologu

Hi Henmyr,
  Quote:


 The op-amps in the amp are very dependent on the op-amp in the dac, so I can't know at this moment which op-amp will be best with OPA627 in the dac. 
 

i've just e-mailed Lawrence to ask which one he recommend with the OPA627 in the dac..he suggest me another opa627 in the amp section..but i'm not sure i've understand well..another OPA627 in the amp?? Is it possible?
  Quote:


 EDIT: Do not neglect the stock op-amp combination, as I find it to very enjoyable with every headphone. 
 

It's another interesting point of view 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Just one more question: when you tested the Meier h5 vs the Zero internal amp, did you used the stock op-amps?


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pete7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Haven't been around very long,eh? The last time I checked Ori sent out a brand new modded unit for close to $450. Discrete output isn't what you'd call a "negligible" mod, like say swapping out an op-amp._

 

er.. yes it is now $450 (will be increased to $ 529 in one week), but still...

 I certainly know that using separate analog electrical components (resistors, transistors, diodes etc.) rather than chips to amplify the audio signal is a different thing, but I don't think this is worth more than 4 times the price excluding shipping , especially because this mod is being performed at the output stage only. I don't think it's fair to resell this item with such an high markup. Take a look at the modding module and the other Oritek mods on the Zhaolu, IMHO they speak for themselves...

 Besides, how dares he to rebrand the Zhaolu as "Oritek Audio" with such small and cheap mods? 

 If I were Mr. Zhaolu, I would get p...... off. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






Oritek Audio - OMZ DAC Information Page


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *strologu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Henmyr,

 i've just e-mailed Lawrence to ask which one he recommend with the OPA627 in the dac..he suggest me another opa627 in the amp section..but i'm not sure i've understand well..another OPA627 in the amp?? Is it possible?

 It's another interesting point of view 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Just one more question: when you tested the Meier h5 vs the Zero internal amp, did you used the stock op-amps?_

 

No, I did a small comparison now though stock zero vs H5, and they sounded VERY alike. I had a really hard time to hear a difference. I find that different op-amp combinations in the zero yield a bigger difference than stock Zero vs H5. The tonality was very very alike. I could hear a difference in the bass region, where I on the zero could hear a bass guitar, while on the H5 I could not hear it as easy. This might indicate more bass in the zero, better detail, or better separation, or just a very slight difference in signature.

 Both have a neutral and natural signature but with a touch of warmth and smoothness.

 I would have to make a very detailed comparison to really get all the differences right.

 EDIT: The H5 is very very very very slightly more smooth on the edges.

 EDIT: This small comparison was with dt990.

 EDIT: During a complex passage in "Megadeath - Holy wars ... the punishment due" I could follow a supressed guitar more easily with the H5 than with zero. This might as before be due to a slight difference in signature or something else.


----------



## strologu

Hi Henmyr,
 thanks a lot for precious support!!
  Quote:


 No, I did a small comparison now though stock zero vs H5, and they sounded VERY alike. I had a really hard time to hear difference.
 Both have a neutral and natural signature but with a touch of warmth and smoothness. 
 

At the moment i'm placing the order..nothing more to say
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I decided to buy the unit with the stock opamps, and then, when i really know what i need (maybe i'll need anything) i'll try to adjust sound signature rolling opamps.
 Thanks one more time for spendig time doing comparison, your advice is so appreciated


----------



## fault151

Hey all. i just got my new beresford tc-7510 dac today. I'm going to et it burn in a bit and compare it to my zero. This should be exciting as both these dacs are very similar in price and both have had good reviews from members on here and other forums. If your interested pm me and i'll let you know how i'm getting on and the the sound differences.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *strologu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Henmyr,
 thanks a lot for precious support!!

 At the moment i'm placing the order..nothing more to say
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I decided to buy the unit with the stock opamps, and then, when i really know what i need (maybe i'll need anything) i'll try to adjust sound signature rolling opamps.
 Thanks one more time for spendig time doing comparison, your advice is so appreciated 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That is a smart move! The default Opamps are quite nice and the Zero improves greatly with 100hrs under it's belt. After that, is the time to evaluate and decide what is next, if anything. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The build of the Zero is what gives it so much potential. The 1% components and dual mono headphone amp, gives us a little more latitude with Opamp rolling. It is a very nice unit with potential written all over it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I also think Lawrence is right, at least 50% of the time. MANY Zero owners have found the OPA627s on the adapter in the DAC, to be the superior DAC output sound. Combined with a pair of good Opamps in the Headphone amp, the sound can be quite nice for most headphones.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone compared this Zero Dac w/ an Oritek modded Zhaolu? Thanks._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pete7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How about just an unmodded Zhaolu?_

 

Hi! The Zero has drawn many people who need a DAC/Amp and not so many who already have one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I assume this is normal, and others will come around later, when it's potential is better understood and defined.

 From my personal experience with the Zero, I can tell you that it continues to amaze me. I now have two Zero's, one for computer to tube amps, and one as a digital bridge to my analog systems. It has all of the most sought after properties of a great DAC and a great Headphone amp.

 So for now, it's film at 11:00. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Stay tuned!


----------



## strologu

Hi Penchum,
  Quote:


 That is a smart move! The default Opamps are quite nice and the Zero improves greatly with 100hrs under it's belt. After that, is the time to evaluate and decide what is next, if anything. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 

Glad to know that you're thinking the same! I'm so anxious to have my Zero and try it deeply 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote:


 MANY Zero owners have found the OPA627s on the adapter in the DAC, to be the superior DAC output sound. Combined with a pair of good Opamps in the Headphone amp, the sound can be quite nice for most headphones. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




i thing 
 

I'm sure opamp rolling can means a huge step, but i think is a personal thing. Anyway, the OPA627 is probably the best opamp out there, it's not cheap, but it's probably the best, used for Mark Levinson etc etc.
 One question about connection..my laptop does'nt have a digital output, so i'm gonna buy from Lawrence a usb to spdif adapter..anyone experienced with this unit?


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *strologu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One question about connection..my laptop does'nt have a digital output, so i'm gonna buy from Lawrence a usb to spdif adapter..anyone experienced with this unit?_

 

Nope but id like to know how it sounds too. let us know when you get one.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *strologu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Penchum,

 Glad to know that you're thinking the same! I'm so anxious to have my Zero and try it deeply 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm sure opamp rolling can means a huge step, but i think is a personal thing. Anyway, the OPA627 is probably the best opamp out there, it's not cheap, but it's probably the best, used for Mark Levinson etc etc.
 One question about connection..my laptop does'nt have a digital output, so i'm gonna buy from Lawrence a usb to spdif adapter..anyone experienced with this unit?_

 

If there is, they'll be posting about it over in the "computer audio" area. I've been looking around at several, and opinions are wide spread. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If Lawrence says it is a good unit, I think it would be worth your time...then you can share your experience with all of us.


----------



## strologu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nope but id like to know how it sounds too. let us know when you get one._

 

 ok, i'll do it. I have also founded this one NEW USB to SPDIF & OPTICAL Interface UDA1321/CS8405A su eBay.it CD Players Recorders, Home Audio, Consumer Electronics
 Same spec. but coaxial output too..i'm wondering which one could be better.
 I know that there are many enthusiastic owner of the Trends Audio 10.1 DAC, used only to connect a pc to a dac, but i think it's too expensive as simple usb to spdif transport.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *strologu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ok, i'll do it. I have also founded this one NEW USB to SPDIF & OPTICAL Interface UDA1321/CS8405A su eBay.it CD Players Recorders, Home Audio, Consumer Electronics
 Same spec. but coaxial output too..i'm wondering which one could be better.
 I know that there are many enthusiastic owner of the Trends Audio 10.1 DAC, used only to connect a pc to a dac, but i think it's too expensive as simple usb to spdif transport._

 

You should find out if it can drive both digital outputs at the same time. If it can, that would be great (more flexibility) for later on. If not, then it is simply a matter of "do you need a coaxial connection" to decide.


----------



## strologu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You should find out if it can drive both digital outputs at the same time. If it can, that would be great (more flexibility) for later on. If not, then it is simply a matter of "do you need a coaxial connection" to decide. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I think it can drive both outputs at the same time, and i also think that a coaxial connection can be useful someday..i think i'll buy this unit..is more attractive too


----------



## Fremen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *strologu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One question about connection..my laptop does'nt have a digital output, so i'm gonna buy from Lawrence a usb to spdif adapter..anyone experienced with this unit?_

 

Don't know the one from Lawrence but I bought this USB SPDIF converter for about 16€ on ebay:
USB 5.1 Ch optical Controller Audio Sound Card S\PDIF en vente sur eBay.fr (fin le 14-Fév-08 02:38:14 Paris)

 It's based on the CM106 chip from c-media.
 Even the headphone output is not bad...

 I connected it with the optical cable provided with the Zero. It works without drivers with XP but if you install those provided, you can then use the KS plugin for foobar and choose the sampling output (44,1 or 48khz).
 Works like my motherboard coaxial output.

 PS: BTW you can see on the photo the difference with 4,7 kohm resistors for the leds. I removed my sunglasses ...


----------



## strologu

Quote:


 Works like my motherboard coaxial output. 
 

Thanks for info, but i've just bought the other one (see link above)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote:


 PS: BTW you can see on the photo the difference with 4,7 kohm resistors for the leds. I removed my sunglasses ... 
 

oh! it's seems that stock unit is very brilliant at night!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fremen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ PS: BTW you can see on the photo the difference with 4,7 kohm resistors for the leds. I removed my sunglasses ..._

 

Thanks for the pic! I will most definitely be doing the resister change on both my Zero's. If I have both units running at night, it's like a total "blue" room in here!!


----------



## kechinhphuc

I have just bought ZERO DAC and I have some questions about the PRE-AMP function of this DAC. I need some advices from all of you - the experienced audiophile. Thanks in advance.
 I use my Mediagate 350HD Mediacenter as a source, it has both OPTICAL and COAXIAL output for 5.1 DTS Surround system. I also have a Boss Acoustic 5 speaker system (5.1). I want to use the sound system for 2 main purposes with best sound quality:
 - Listen to the stereo music
 - Watch the DVD movie with fullfil 5.1 DTS sound.
 1. In that case, can you recommend me which AV Receiver I could buy (as maximum $300) to connect all the things (Digital source, Zero DAC, AV Receiver and speaker system) ?
 2. How to connect these things for both 2main purposes (without change the cables, it's very a stressful work for me) ?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kechinhphuc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have just bought ZERO DAC and I have some questions about the PRE-AMP function of this DAC. I need some advices from all of you - the experienced audiophile. Thanks in advance.
 I use my Mediagate 350HD Mediacenter as a source, it has both OPTICAL and COAXIAL output for 5.1 DTS Surround system. I also have a Boss Acoustic 5 speaker system (5.1). I want to use the sound system for 2 main purposes with best sound quality:
 - Listen to the stereo music
 - Watch the DVD movie with fullfil 5.1 DTS sound.
 1. In that case, can you recommend me which AV Receiver I could buy (as maximum $300) to connect all the things (Digital source, Zero DAC, AV Receiver and speaker system) ?
 2. How to connect these things for both 2main purposes (without change the cables, it's very a stressful work for me) ?_

 

I can understand why! Here, everything is centered around headphones. The answer you seek would stand a better chance of being correctly answered over on the Mediagate's forum. On that forum, there is MUCH going on with surround audio vs. stereo audio, so you should check them out.
 Have a good one!!


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *strologu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ok, i'll do it. I have also founded this one NEW USB to SPDIF & OPTICAL Interface UDA1321/CS8405A su eBay.it CD Players Recorders, Home Audio, Consumer Electronics
 Same spec. but coaxial output too..i'm wondering which one could be better._

 

Cirrus says about the CS8405A: Not Recommended for New Designs.

 I would prefer a design with a PCM2702/PCM2704 like the Meier Aria/Opera/Move.


----------



## strologu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cirrus says about the CS8405A: Not Recommended for New Designs.

 I would prefer a design with a PCM2702/PCM2704 like the Meier Aria/Opera/Move._

 

it seems cs8405a to have beeter spec., am i wrong? Why it's not recommended?
 I've just downloaded cs8405a datasheet..i've not found anything about it, can you help me?


----------



## Ash

Where can I purchase one of these amps?


----------



## Ori

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_er.. yes it is now $450 (will be increased to $ 529 in one week), but still..._

 

Correction: it's $475.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* 
_I don't think it's fair to resell this item with such an high markup._

 

I invite you to come join me for one "easy mod" and then tell me what you would charge for it. It's not like changing a cap or two. The unit is totally taken apart, boards, panels and all.
 If you can come up with a better scheme and show me how I maintain my business then I'll offer you the sales and marketing position. How about that?
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* 
_Besides, how dares he to rebrand the Zhaolu as "Oritek Audio"_

 

Because you'd never mistaken the sound for a Zhaolu, that's why. I use parts from the D2.5 as parts. I take what's decently implemented and I change what I don't agree with. Parts I use are well made and come at a price that cannot be duplicated in small volume production. Instead, I put my effort where it does some good!
 Would you say that it's a bad practice to put any commercial power supply in my design? Go peek inside a few reputable DACs, you might be surprised!
 So the particular board says "Zhaolu" on it instead of "PowerOne" or maybe "Autec". What significance is there other than my observation that the D2.5 power supply is better for my application?
 Chevy doesn't re-invent the wheel from scratch. They buy it from Goodyear or Michelin. Guess what? It's still a Chevy. And guess what? Goodyear and Michelin are happy to do business with Chevy. Why would you hypothesize anything about my relationship with Zhaolu? Just for the heck of it?! You're right about one thing: someone does need to get a life!
 Check around and pursue companies that just change the badge on someone else's product, should you decide to become a self-nominated counsellor for the Head-Fi consumer union.
 That will give you about a year worth of "work"... A bigger post count too...


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ori* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Correction: it's $475.
 I invite you to come join me for one "easy mod" and then tell me what you would charge for it. It's not like changing a cap or two. The unit is totally taken apart, boards, panels and all.
 If you can come up with a better scheme and show me how I maintain my business then I'll offer you the sales and marketing position. How about that?
 Because you'd never mistaken the sound for a Zhaolu, that's why. I use parts from the D2.5 as parts. I take what's decently implemented and I change what I don't agree with. Parts I use are well made and come at a price that cannot be duplicated in small volume production. Instead, I put my effort where it does some good!
 Would you say that it's a bad practice to put any commercial power supply in my design? Go peek inside a few reputable DACs, you might be surprised!
 So the particular board says "Zhaolu" on it instead of "PowerOne" or maybe "Autec". What significance is there other than my observation that the D2.5 power supply is better for my application?
 Chevy doesn't re-invent the wheel from scratch. They buy it from Goodyear or Michelin. Guess what? It's still a Chevy. And guess what? Goodyear and Michelin are happy to do business with Chevy. Why would you hypothesize anything about my relationship with Zhaolu? Just for the heck of it?! You're right about one thing: someone does need to get a life!
 Check around and pursue companies that just change the badge on someone else's product, should you decide to become a self-nominated counsellor for the Head-Fi consumer union.
 That will give you about a year worth of "work"... A bigger post count too..._

 

I've been lurking in this thread from the start - but you gave me the best reason to join in, just to say "BRAVO" - that was an excellent rebuttal.


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *strologu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_it seems cs8405a to have beeter spec., am i wrong? Why it's not recommended?
 I've just downloaded cs8405a datasheet..i've not found anything about it, can you help me?_

 

Never said that the chip is bad or the PCM2702/4 is better. I prefer them because current USB amps/DACs use one of them as bridge to USB.

 The manufacturer "Cirrus Logic" writes on the detail page of the CS8405a:


> Status: Not Recommended for New Designs
> Recommended for New Designs: CS8406


----------



## Fremen

Any feedback on the CM106 from c-media as a USB to spdif converter?
 The datasheet is here


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ori* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Correction: it's $475.
 I invite you to come join me for one "easy mod" and then tell me what you would charge for it. It's not like changing a cap or two. The unit is totally taken apart, boards, panels and all.
 If you can come up with a better scheme and show me how I maintain my business then I'll offer you the sales and marketing position. How about that?
 Because you'd never mistaken the sound for a Zhaolu, that's why. I use parts from the D2.5 as parts. I take what's decently implemented and I change what I don't agree with. Parts I use are well made and come at a price that cannot be duplicated in small volume production. Instead, I put my effort where it does some good!
 Would you say that it's a bad practice to put any commercial power supply in my design? Go peek inside a few reputable DACs, you might be surprised!
 So the particular board says "Zhaolu" on it instead of "PowerOne" or maybe "Autec". What significance is there other than my observation that the D2.5 power supply is better for my application?
 Chevy doesn't re-invent the wheel from scratch. They buy it from Goodyear or Michelin. Guess what? It's still a Chevy. And guess what? Goodyear and Michelin are happy to do business with Chevy. Why would you hypothesize anything about my relationship with Zhaolu? Just for the heck of it?! You're right about one thing: someone does need to get a life!
 Check around and pursue companies that just change the badge on someone else's product, should you decide to become a self-nominated counsellor for the Head-Fi consumer union.
 That will give you about a year worth of "work"... A bigger post count too..._

 

As you said, a Chevy with Michelin or Goodyear wheels is still a Chevy. Therefore a Zhaolu with a few addons like the ones showed in your website is still a Zhaolu, not an "Oritek Audio" DAC.

 I'm sorry man, I don't buy it...


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fremen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any feedback on the CM106 from c-media as a USB to spdif converter?
 The datasheet is here_

 

Sorry... no feedback on the CM106 from me.

 If I have to buy an USB -> S/PDIF converter, it should produce a bitperfect signal and it should support 24/96.
 24/96 is only interesting if you have source material in 24/96 e.g. DVD-Audio or if you are using the SRC or SSRC in foobar.

 On the other hand there are USB-DACs. They do the trick without any conversation to or from S/PDIF.


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As you said, a Chevy with Michelin or Goodyear wheels is still a Chevy. Therefore a Zhaolu with a few addons like the ones showed in your website is still a Zhaolu, not an "Oritek Audio" DAC._

 

I bet Zhaolu is the "wheels".


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Never said that the chip is bad or the PCM2702/4 is better. I prefer them because current USB amps/DACs use one of them as bridge to USB.

 The manufacturer "Cirrus Logic" writes on the detail page of the CS8405a:



			Status: Not Recommended for New Designs
 Recommended for New Designs: CS8406

Click to expand...

_ 
 

That makes perfect sense. I think the "New Designs" part got missed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Thanks for your input. I'm still looking (not in a rush either) to see what comes out in the next few months.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ash* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where can I purchase one of these amps?_

 

I looks like Lawrence sold out his ebay posting. You'll have to email him and ask about posting more. Here is his address: lawrencechanbig@msn.com


----------



## fl00r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I looks like Lawrence sold out his ebay posting. You'll have to email him and ask about posting more. Here is his address: lawrencechanbig@msn.com_

 

That's correct, I had the last one
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 O.K. After reading your excellent review (you should go in to copywriting and I will buy anything from you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) and struggle through 100+ pages of this threat I took the plunge and ordered the ZERO.

 Thanks everyone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ben


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fl00r* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's correct, I had the last one
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 O.K. After reading your excellent review (you should go in to copywriting and I will buy anything from you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) and struggle through 100+ pages of this threat I took the plunge and ordered the ZERO.

 Thanks everyone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ben_

 

Congratulations! This thread has grown a little, hasn't it.


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I bet Zhaolu is the "wheels". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Are you sure? Don't bet, check yourself here...

Oritek Audio - OMZ DAC Information Page


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
I bet Zhaolu is the "wheels". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 

Are you sure? Don't bet, check yourself here..._

 

I'll bet, ask Ori


----------



## Penchum

It's ok guys. Let's not get too far off the beaten path.

 Have either of you seen a simple and inexpensive USB/SPDIF device that has the newer chips in it, referenced earlier?
 Thanks!


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have either of you seen a simple and inexpensive USB/SPDIF device that has the newer chips in it, referenced earlier?
 Thanks!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

HagUsb, USB-to-S/PDIF Converter

 But it does not 24/96!


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's ok guys. Let's not get too far off the beaten path.

 Have either of you seen a simple and inexpensive USB/SPDIF device that has the newer chips in it, referenced earlier?
 Thanks!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

PCM2706 High Fidelity USB Soundcard / USB Headphones

 less prehistoric than what suggested by our tyres expert in the previous post...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Or, if you want something really new, this one is based on the UDA1321/CS8405A

NEW USB TO SPDIF & OPTICAL Interface UDA1321/CS8405A - eBay (item 140183988150 end time Dec-03-07 16:33:52 PST)


----------



## davve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ash* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where can I purchase one of these amps?_

 

ZERO 24/192 DAC D A CONVERTOR , HEAD FI AMP , BRAND NEW - eBay (item 230222293565 end time Feb-19-08 09:17:53 PST)


 I sure do miss mine


----------



## Ori

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As you said, a Chevy with Michelin or Goodyear wheels is still a Chevy. Therefore a Zhaolu with a few addons like the ones showed in your website is still a Zhaolu, not an "Oritek Audio" DAC._

 

I can change the tires on my car at any tire shop. Try replacing my "few addons" or comprehend what I do that you don't see. Good luck!


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PCM2706 High Fidelity USB Soundcard / USB Headphones

 less prehistoric than what suggested by our tyres expert in the previous post...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The PCM2706 is the PCM2704 but in a TQFP package: datasheet
 Edit: ok... there are some differences: I2S output, more HID key inputs

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Or, if you want something really new, this one is based on the UDA1321/CS8405A

NEW USB TO SPDIF & OPTICAL Interface UDA1321/CS8405A - eBay (item 140183988150 end time Dec-03-07 16:33:52 PST)_

 

... which is really bad, a quote from diyhifi:
And I was totally disappointed. The jitter measurements were that bad so John Westlake’s cynical notice "the price of the progress" sprang the mind instantly. I have never seen such a high jitter and it is clearly in the range where even those highly tolerant when importance of the jitter is considered (as I am...) will tell you "this is the horror".


----------



## Ash

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ZERO 24/192 DAC D A CONVERTOR , HEAD FI AMP , BRAND NEW - eBay (item 230222293565 end time Feb-19-08 09:17:53 PST)


 I sure do miss mine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks for the linky!


----------



## Ash

Thanks for the response Penchum!
 I have emailed Lawrence.


----------



## Fremen

Got a new friend for my Zero to replace my Hd-280 pro: tata....HD-650!
 OK, I know, it's not that original.
 I just wanted to say thanks to you all folks. I have found a new way to spend my hardly earned money 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW how long do you think for the burn in? 100hours?


----------



## Pete7

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ori* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can change the tires on my car at any tire shop. Try replacing my "few addons" or comprehend what I do that you don't see. Good luck!_

 

Not worth debating a newb that thinks he knows everything and doesn't even have his feet wet yet, Ori.


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fremen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW how long do you think for the burn in? 100hours?_

 

My HD650 did the first 4h at low sound level, then 24h at normal level. After that 4-5 days with higher volume.


----------



## fl00r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My HD650 did the first 4h at low sound level, then 24h at normal level. After that 4-5 days with higher volume._

 

I am afraid that you're serious about that...


----------



## strologu

Hi Kmel,
  Quote:


 ... which is really bad, a quote from diyhifi:
 [...] I have never seen such a high jitter and it is clearly in the range where even those highly tolerant when importance of the jitter is considered (as I am...) will tell you "this is the horror". 
 

thanks a lot for info! With this horrible result obteined with UDA1321..which solution do you think is less affected by jitter?
 Maybe a simple interface like this one? NEW MINI USB to SPDIF & OPTICAL Interface PCM2906 en venta en eBay.es (finaliza el 18-feb-08 05:47:23 H.Esp)
 I think it's a common problem for a lot of people involved in this thread, and generally, for those who are using dac connected to laptops.
 Thanks a lot in advance


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pete7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not worth debating a newb that thinks he knows everything and doesn't even have his feet wet yet, Ori._

 

No, it's not. I do agree with you. 

 BTW I'm probably a bit older than Ori and I have a quite similar background, if what I've read in his website is true.

 Just because I recently joined this forum, doesn't mean that I'm a newbie, I just expressed my own opinion. 

 I hope you are not as shallow when you review audio equipment.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fremen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got a new friend for my Zero to replace my Hd-280 pro: tata....HD-650!
 OK, I know, it's not that original.
 I just wanted to say thanks to you all folks. I have found a new way to spend my hardly earned money 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW how long do you think for the burn in? 100hours?_

 

Congratulations! Very nice headphones indeed! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The first 100 will have the most changes. After that, only minor changes. Do it however it works out best for you. There is nothing wrong with just listening to them either.


----------



## diab0lik

just ordered the zero hopefully it'll live up to the hype


----------



## Ori

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW I'm probably a bit older than Ori and I have a quite similar background, if what I've read in his website is true._

 

I had a hunch that's the case. So you're an expert? Excellent!!!
 I'll ship original D2.5 units to you so you can mod them for me for say $50 (I'm guessing you'd say that's "fair") and we'll do great business.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 BTW you get to answer phones, reply to emails, repair and update older units, deal with lost packages, order new parts, answer people who post $#& on forums. The whole deal ya know.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Man, where have you been hiding all this time?! _Ohhhh, what a wonnnn-derrrr-ful worldddd!_


----------



## legcramp

I'll send you my D2.5C ori if you want to mod it for $50? haha.


----------



## Ori

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aZn_plyR* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll send you my D2.5C ori if you want to mod it for $50? haha._

 

No, no, no... The new deal works this way: you send to pincellone directly and I just collect the money...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 If there are any issues, it's the same deal. You dial his number, cause I'm gonna be on the beach in Hawaii. Darn, I should have thought of this earlier!!!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ori* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had a hunch that's the case. So you're an expert? Excellent!!!
 I'll ship original D2.5 units to you so you can mod them for me for say $50 (I'm guessing you'd say that's "fair") and we'll do great business.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 BTW you get to answer phones, reply to emails, repair and update older units, deal with lost packages, order new parts, answer people who post $#& on forums. The whole deal ya know.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Man, where have you been hiding all this time?! Ohhhh, what a wonnnn-derrrr-ful worldddd!



_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, it's not. I do agree with you. 

 BTW I'm probably a bit older than Ori and I have a quite similar background, if what I've read in his website is true.

 Just because I recently joined this forum, doesn't mean that I'm a newbie, I just expressed my own opinion. 

 I hope you are not as shallow when you review audio equipment. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Gentleman,

 I asked this of you earlier: "It's ok guys. Let's not get too far off the beaten path". However, my request is being ignored.

 I would appreciate it, if this off topic discussion were dropped here and now, or moved to a more suitable forum.

 I will remind you both, that this is MY review thread, and it has worked very well for the first 1700 posts. I don't want it to turn into a crap fight. So please, for me, and everyone who frequents this thread, make this problem go away.

 Thank you for your consideration.
 Penchum


----------



## edguetzow

Ok, everyone can have an opinion. If Ori charges a certain amount and people are happy with it so be it. If you or I don't like his price or his work then we don't do business with him. People create businesses to try to earn a profit - period. It is not your place nor mine to tell them they are making too much or too little. Let's not allow our feelings to take control and "poke someone in the eye" just because they see things differently.

 'Nuff said.

 So, how about our Zero. Any new chip ideas out there? Can someone post the least expensive and reliable source for the OPA627 off the net?


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Gentleman,

 I asked this of you earlier: "It's ok guys. Let's not get too far off the beaten path". However, my request is being ignored.

 I would appreciate it, if this off topic discussion were dropped here and now, or moved to a more suitable forum.

 I will remind you both, that this is MY review thread, and it has worked very well for the first 1700 posts. I don't want it to turn into a crap fight. So please, for me, and everyone who frequents this thread, make this problem go away.

 Thank you for your consideration.
 Penchum_

 

You are in correct in concept. However if I was making a product and all of a sudden a person who has not even listen to my product starts taking shots at it I would be extremely upset. Why some start this wars on vendors or fellow Head-Fiers is beyond me, yet they are allowed to stay and take shots anytime they feel like it. Specially when their input is not requested nor does it add to the thread. Just my $0.02


----------



## Ori

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would appreciate it, if this off topic discussion were dropped here and now_

 

I was just having a little fun but you are right. I apologize for the "noise"...


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You are in correct in concept. However if I was making a product and all of a sudden a person who has not even listen to my product starts taking shots at it I would be extremely upset. Why some start this wars on vendors or fellow Head-Fiers is beyond me, yet they are allowed to stay and take shots anytime they feel like it. Specially when their input is not requested nor does it add to the thread. Just my $0.02_

 

They may be "allowed" by forum rules, but that doesn't mean I can't ASK PLEASE that they stop or move it. Respect is a two way street, and I'm asking them to walk on it.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ori* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was just having a little fun but you are right. I apologize for the "noise"..._

 

Thank you very much sir. I appreciate it so much!
 Have a good one!!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edguetzow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ So, how about our Zero. Any new chip ideas out there? Can someone post the least expensive and reliable source for the OPA627 off the net?_

 

I would like to know this too. I paid the "Lawrence" price, which at the time was about as good as it was getting, but I sure would like to find a better price, and the smaller size adapter too.


----------



## giant77

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would like to know this too. I paid the "Lawrence" price, which at the time was about as good as it was getting, but I sure would like to find a better price, and the smaller size adapter too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I was going to order from Wu the OPA627 after their New Year diykits


----------



## edguetzow

Looks good as WU has the OPA627 BP for $11 each while lawrence lists the OPA627 BP (single, ceramic) for $28 each! I assume they are both the same (BP) and ceramic in nature. With a browndog ($3) that makes it about $25 + shipping versus Lawrence's price of $61 shipped. Both from Hong Kong. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I like Lawrence and would like to do business with him but George Washington(s) are nice too!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The browndog I reference is this one: Single-to-dual Op-AMP Adapter - DIP version (p/n 021001) - 021001 Is this the correct one to use? or was there another recommended? I seem to recall an alternative adaptor being mentioned that saved space (?).


----------



## edguetzow

Hey! I noticed that on the front page of Cimmaron (browndog) they state that:

 "COMING SOON! - Pre-mounted OPA627 op-amp on either 970601S or 020302S adapters."

Cimarron Technology, Inc.

 I will email them and ask when and how much! May be worth the wait and not have to order from 2 places.


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *giant77* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was going to order from Wu the OPA627 after their New Year diykits_

 

Wu has nice prices, but the OPA627AM is in a TO99 package: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, only the OPA627BP is PDIP.
 So you have to buy some kind of adapter. I like this one: OPA627AU Adapter.
 Edit: Check out edguetzow's post... Cimarron has these adapters too.

 What are the musical and audible differences between OPA627 A and B? Anyone?

 The OPA637 isn't Unity-Gain Stable.
 @Penchum: Does the Zero handle a gain greater/equal 5?


----------



## edguetzow

Looks good but the price comes to about $60 US. Similar to Lawrence's price although it looks nice and compact in design. Not much else right now on ebay.


----------



## kmel

Anyone tried this: Bursonaudio Discrete Op-amp


----------



## Henmyr

diykits didn't have any OPA627BP a few days ago, but they did however have OPA627AP for $8, of which I ordered two.


----------



## Ori

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone tried this: Bursonaudio Discrete Op-amp_

 

A bit pricey for a discrete opamp. You can find hermetically sealed quality units around $30 used, but the question is how to fit them in the space. Burson solved that problem for you.


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_diykits didn't have any OPA627BP a few days ago, but they did however have OPA627AP for $8, of which I ordered two._

 

Hmm.... right now I ordered one of these "OPA627AU Adapter" for $38 shipped.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone tried this: Bursonaudio Discrete Op-amp



_

 

Can you literally just swap your dual op amps for one of thes babies and it will be an instant upgrade?

 Or do the only work in certain designs? Im thinking for my zero dac.


----------



## ammatos

Dave,

 Much thanXs for you most excellent review. And much thanXs for "discovering" this lovely product. 

 I've been looking for something like this, and tripped over your post - Hey luck got strike me sometimes, right 

 Looks like my next stop is EBay!

 Again much thanXs,

 angel


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone tried this: Bursonaudio Discrete Op-amp



_

 

Those look yummy!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ammatos* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dave,

 Much thanXs for you most excellent review. And much thanXs for "discovering" this lovely product. 

 I've been looking for something like this, and tripped over your post - Hey luck got strike me sometimes, right 

 Looks like my next stop is EBay!

 Again much thanXs,

 angel_

 

Thanks for the kind words! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Have a good one!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can you literally just swap your dual op amps for one of thes babies and it will be an instant upgrade?

 Or do the only work in certain designs? Im thinking for my zero dac._

 

It was listed as a direct replacement for the OPA2604, so it seems so!


----------



## Seba

I got OPA627 AP's from Lawrence, not BP's. I'm still waiting for his answer about the broken op-amp and damaged DY2000.

 I have right now 2xLT1028 with Browndog in the DAC burning in. They get pretty hot, but the LT1361's in the headamp are only warm.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seba* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got OPA627 AP's from Lawrence, not BP's. I'm still waiting for his answer about the broken op-amp and damaged DY2000.

 I have right now 2xLT1028 with Browndog in the DAC burning in. They get pretty hot, but the LT1361's in the headamp are only warm._

 

How do they sound?


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How do they sound?_

 

I'm wondering this too. I didn't think they would work in the dac?


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It was listed as a direct replacement for the OPA2604, so it seems so!_

 

Think im gonna get some for the dac section? Im wondering whether to add them to the headphone section too???


----------



## fl00r

I am sorry to interrupt with a trivial question: I thought I read somewhere in this thread that Laurence only shipping amps on Mondays, is that (still) true?

 Thanks,

 Ben


----------



## Seba

Nicely detailed and smooth sound with 2xLT1028. Bass is nicely punchy. BUT...

 Background hiss is very noticeable. When I set my LD at 30 I can hear it when I don't play anything with it. LT1469 doesn't have background noise almost at all.

 Edit: Now the background hiss has disappeared... What... If it stays like that, then these op-amps are a keeper. Definately the best sound so far (I didn't get to listen to OPA627's almost at all when they broke)


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seba* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nicely detailed and smooth sound with 2xLT1028. Bass is nicely punchy. BUT...

 Background hiss is very noticeable. When I set my LD at 30 I can hear it when I don't play anything with it. LT1469 doesn't have background noise almost at all._

 

I noticed the same thing with the LT1028, its a shame cos otherwise its pretty nice sounding. I loved the LT1469 though, im currently running this in my zero.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seba* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nicely detailed and smooth sound with 2xLT1028. Bass is nicely punchy. BUT...

 Background hiss is very noticeable. When I set my LD at 30 I can hear it when I don't play anything with it. LT1469 doesn't have background noise almost at all.

 Edit: Now the background hiss has disappeared... What... If it stays like that, then these op-amps are a keeper. Definately the best sound so far (I didn't get to listen to OPA627's almost at all when they broke)_

 

Please do keep reporting about the LT1028. I have a pair but haven't dared to try them yet.


----------



## Clok

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fl00r* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am sorry to interrupt with a trivial question: I thought I read somewhere in this thread that Laurence only shipping amps on Mondays, is that (still) true?

 Thanks,

 Ben_

 

When I bought mine Lawrence said they were out of stock and waiting would be 2-3weeks. 
 I dont know why he still keeps selling them on ebay if they are already out of stock.
 Btw, I ordered mine on 02/07.


----------



## Seba

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I noticed the same thing with the LT1028, its a shame cos otherwise its pretty nice sounding. I loved the LT1469 though, im currently running this in my zero._

 

I think that LT1469 sounds more harsh than these LT1028's. But I also like the sound from OPA2604 very much, so maybe a warmer op-amp is better in my ears.

 I'm right now enjoying Roisin Murphy's album very much. Sound goes so well forward and I can pick all the nice details from music if I want to.


----------



## Seba

I listened the whole evening with different types of music. I can confirm that those 2xLT1028 will do the job nicely whatever I throw at them. Highly recommended...


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clok* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When I bought mine Lawrence said they were out of stock and waiting would be 2-3weeks. 
 I dont know why he still keeps selling them on ebay if they are already out of stock.
 Btw, I ordered mine on 02/07._

 

I pretty sure he is still working the Zero's in batches of 50. If that is so, then he's putting a portion of them up on eBay. Then, when all tested, they ship out the order of 50. He started doing this before the Holidays, and there is a good chance his sales haven't dropped much yet.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Think im gonna get some for the dac section? Im wondering whether to add them to the headphone section too???_

 

That would be awesome! Keep us posted. I wish I could, but the last bit I was allowed to spend went for a MKIII and a tube pre-amp.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I would be interested in hearing how it impacts the final sound.


----------



## edguetzow

Hey guys!

 It seems our favorite Zero is becoming very popular on the net. I happened across this thread - ZERO 24 BIT/192KHz DAC/Headphone Amp/Pre-Amp - VR-Zone IT & Lifestyle Forum! at vr-zone.com and they seem to be closely following our discussions here at head-fi.

 It's nice to see that we aren't the only ones with good taste!! Perhaps we can learn even more via their experimentations? They currently seem to be following the same path of opamp combinations as we have here.


----------



## edguetzow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seba* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I listened the whole evening with different types of music. I can confirm that those 2xLT1028 will do the job nicely whatever I throw at them. Highly recommended..._

 

Thanks, Seba!

 I just put in my request for free samples!

 Now to wait again.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edguetzow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys!

 It seems our favorite Zero is becoming very popular on the net. I happened across this thread - ZERO 24 BIT/192KHz DAC/Headphone Amp/Pre-Amp - VR-Zone IT & Lifestyle Forum! at vr-zone.com and they seem to be closely following our discussions here at head-fi.

 It's nice to see that we aren't the only ones with good taste!! Perhaps we can learn even more via their experimentations? They currently seem to be following the same path of opamp combinations as we have here._

 

You should follow them along, and pass back anything they discover. I wonder what they would say if they found out my X-Fi Optical out sounds better than my built-in audio optical out? hehhee!


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seba* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I listened the whole evening with different types of music. I can confirm that those 2xLT1028 will do the job nicely whatever I throw at them. Highly recommended..._

 

Are they still very hot? Is the noise gone still? 

 I tried my LT1028 briefly, and as you say, they sounded very good. They were also very very hot, so I didn't dare to keep them in.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That would be awesome! Keep us posted. I wish I could, but the last bit I was allowed to spend went for a MKIII and a tube pre-amp.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I would be interested in hearing how it impacts the final sound. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeh i'll let you know. Theres a clock upgrade too that i may consider. It will be in a few weeks if i get one, i need to get paid first! ha ha. 

 They do look amazing though, hope they sound the same!


----------



## Seba

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are they still very hot? Is the noise gone still? 

 I tried my LT1028 briefly, and as you say, they sounded very good. They were also very very hot, so I didn't dare to keep them in._

 

I didn't test how hot they became when I use my gear for the whole evening because there were no problems. I think it will be in the temp range where op-amp is designed to be functional.

 I'll do some more testing tonight :rs2smile:


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I tried my LT1028 briefly, and as you say, they sounded very good. They were also very very hot, so I didn't dare to keep them in._

 

@penchum:
 Didn't you write in your review that the LT1028 can't be used with the DAC as they are not unity gain stable?
 From where did you get this information?


----------



## Seba

I powered on my gear and there is again background hiss and some kind of whining sound when I turn the volume all the way up. The noises are quieter than yesterday.

 Have to listen more and see if it goes away again.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@penchum:
 Didn't you write in your review that the LT1028 can't be used with the DAC as they are not unity gain stable?
 From where did you get this information?_

 

Well, you are right! When it was looked up earlier (long time ago) it made no statement about being unity gain stable, but now it does. I'll fix the review right away! Thanks!!!


----------



## dsmudger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are they still very hot? Is the noise gone still? 

 I tried my LT1028 briefly, and as you say, they sounded very good. They were also very very hot, so I didn't dare to keep them in._

 

Well I've got mine running for the second day continuously - let you know how that goes when I get back from work today 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Can't believe this thread's still runnning BTW 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 been away for a bit after slightly losing interest in my Zero, having not been able to find an opamp combo to hands-down beat my other equipment.. but a long-delayed browndog and pair of AD797s arrived yesterday so I started playing again (didn't like the 797s all that much, so figured I'd give those LT1028s a go and what a pleasant surprise!)

 So far best combo I had was LME49720 in both DAC and headamp, had 2 metal/2 plastic, so had a metal one in the DAC. Now with the LT1028 in the DAC board I've put my two metal LMEs into the headamp.

 This combo's a keeper for now, but there's a distinct loss of resolution compared to 'LMEs all round' - think I'll order a third metal LME and maybe some (metal?) 627s which I haven't tried yet.. I know this little machine's got it in it to be absolutely amazing, as I've heard most of what I like with the all-LME combo, just it was lacking bass (that I've now heard with the 1028, at the expense of resolution - argh! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) and had a weird gap in the mids - so the search for the holy grail continues 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That discrete opamp thing looks kind of tempting, esp. what with money-back guarantee... (anyone got any experience with it or others? does it really beat the 627 like the eBay description claims?)

 Oh, I also put the stock BB2604 back in just for kicks - surprisingly nice compared to my initial impressions (though not a keeper - perhaps just an indication of what the more expensive 627 might sound like - and seems all very promising at that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 Did the same with my ceramic DY2000 - and it's still not to my taste 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyone want to do a swap for another opamp they might have knocking about surplus to requirements?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dsmudger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I've got mine running for the second day continuously - let you know how that goes when I get back from work today 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Can't believe this thread's still runnning BTW 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 been away for a bit after slightly losing interest in my Zero, having not been able to find an opamp combo to hands-down beat my other equipment.. but a long-delayed browndog and pair of AD797s arrived yesterday so I started playing again (didn't like the 797s all that much, so figured I'd give those LT1028s a go and what a pleasant surprise!)

 So far best combo I had was LME49720 in both DAC and headamp, had 2 metal/2 plastic, so had a metal one in the DAC. Now with the LT1028 in the DAC board I've put my two metal LMEs into the headamp.

 This combo's a keeper for now, but there's a distinct loss of resolution compared to 'LMEs all round' - think I'll order a third metal LME and maybe some (metal?) 627s which I haven't tried yet.. I know this little machine's got it in it to be absolutely amazing, as I've heard most of what I like with the all-LME combo, just it was lacking bass (that I've now heard with the 1028, at the expense of resolution - argh! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) and had a weird gap in the mids - so the search for the holy grail continues 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That discrete opamp thing looks kind of tempting, esp. what with money-back guarantee... (anyone got any experience with it or others? does it really beat the 627 like the eBay description claims?)

 Oh, I also put the stock BB2604 back in just for kicks - surprisingly nice compared to my initial impressions (though not a keeper - perhaps just an indication of what the more expensive 627 might sound like - and seems all very promising at that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 Did the same with my ceramic DY2000 - and it's still not to my taste 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyone want to do a swap for another opamp they might have knocking about surplus to requirements?_

 

I wondered where you went! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You bring up a good point. Every so often, it is worth your time to put the stock Opamps back in and just listen for a few days. It will bring perspective back into the Opamp hunt. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Glad you are back, hope you find the right combo for your ears!!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are they still very hot? Is the noise gone still? 

 I tried my LT1028 briefly, and as you say, they sounded very good. They were also very very hot, so I didn't dare to keep them in._

 

I was thinking that a true temperature test might reveal some truth or needs.
 As soon as my LT1028's come in, I think it might be worth my time to run specific combinations and take direct temperature readings. Could you guys suggest to me which combinations have heat concerns? Thanks!


----------



## dsmudger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wondered where you went! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You bring up a good point. Every so often, it is worth your time to put the stock Opamps back in and just listen for a few days. It will bring perspective back into the Opamp hunt. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Glad you are back, hope you find the right combo for your ears!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hehe - yeah/thanks, though I can see where this slippery slope is going - it's going to take time and probably a decent amount of money before I settle on a combo I like.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Suppose once I do I can sell off all the surplus, and hey it's something to do/keep-me-of-the-streets so to speak 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (and who knows, doing it this way you learn a thing or two + could well stave off the usual upgrade-itis compared with simply buying a $400-800 pre-built unit)

 Bit stuck for ideas on what else to try in the headamp board meanwhile, what with the limited space (e.g. can't try 'OP627s-all-round') unless of course anyone knows of some sort of flexible wire adapter available for this sort of thing, to just have the socket somewhere else in the case?

 Overall though, I'm thinking that's got to be the way to go - experiment with the same op-amp in all three sockets to get an idea of it's characteristics in isolation then combine with something else, or settle for something cheaper if it makes little difference for example...

 It's going to get pretty expensive, pretty quickly, with things like 6x OPA627 though (and what do you do when you start thinking things like "hey I wonder if I can hear the difference with the TO-99 metal can one?"!!) - if only there were a way to do this in a shop and just buy what you want at the end much like at a high-end hifi shop 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I guess the alternative would be to experiment with a high-end headphone amp you're familar with, plugged in to the pre-amp out, settle on a DAC opamp choice, then try to get the internal hedamp sounding as similar as possible with further fiddling 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway hopefully at some point or another we'll have figured out 3-4 'kick-ass opamp combos' to put in the first post and we can save new people a whole lot of money and leg-work


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dsmudger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hehe - yeah/thanks, though I can see where this slippery slope is going - it's going to take time and probably a decent amount of money before I settle on a combo I like.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Suppose once I do I can sell off all the surplus, and hey it's something to do/keep-me-of-the-streets so to speak 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (and who knows, doing it this way you learn a thing or two + could well stave off the usual upgrade-itis compared with simply buying a $400-800 pre-built unit)

 Bit stuck for ideas on what else to try in the headamp board meanwhile, what with the limited space (e.g. can't try 'OP627s-all-round') unless of course anyone knows of some sort of flexible wire adapter available for this sort of thing, to just have the socket somewhere else in the case?

 Overall though, I'm thinking that's got to be the way to go - experiment with the same op-amp in all three sockets to get an idea of it's characteristics in isolation then combine with something else, or settle for something cheaper if it makes little difference for example...

 It's going to get pretty expensive, pretty quickly, with things like 6x OPA627 though (and what do you do when you start thinking things like "hey I wonder if I can hear the difference with the TO-99 metal can one?"!!) - if only there were a way to do this in a shop and just buy what you want at the end much like at a high-end hifi shop 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I guess the alternative would be to experiment with a high-end headphone amp you're familar with, plugged in to the pre-amp out, settle on a DAC opamp choice, then try to get the internal hedamp sounding as similar as possible with further fiddling 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway hopefully at some point or another we'll have figured out 3-4 'kick-ass opamp combos' to put in the first post and we can save new people a whole lot of money and leg-work 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Exactly! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I finally had to narrow down the choices for the DAC output first, then swap out the headphone amp until I had a decent sound. I'm beginning to think this is the "best" way to approach this Opamp rolling bonanza!

 One thing that was very interesting. I started with the Zero I have hooked up to my MKIVse tube amp. After trying all the possibilities, the OPA627's on the adapter won for the DAC side. I took that Zero across the room and hooked it to my SPEC main system, and it sounded terrible! I wasn't ready for that. So, I finished with it hooked up to my MKIVse and ended up using the LT1364's in the headphone amp. With this combination, I hooked the pre-out to my mini-rig's Super-T amp, and it sounds great!

 Then I took Zero #2 and started all over again, with this one hooked to the SPEC equipment. I ended up using LT1364 in the DAC, and LT1469's in the headphone amp. It sounds fantastic!

 It just goes to show that the DAC output has to be priority #1 and the headphone amp is all about finding the Opamps that works well with the DAC choice. The folks that have purchased the Zero just to use the headphone amp, will be driven crazy with possibilities. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The chart is their only saving grace!

 A few things were discovered while you were gone. One, there are two different sizes of adapters for singles to dual. The smaller will fit into the headphone amp. Two, the true pre-amp function was discovered. If you have the pre-outs hooked to an amp, and no headphones plugged into the Zero, press the pre-amp button to get a green light. In this position, the volume knob now works for the DAC output!!! Try it, you'll like it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If your headphones are plugged in, the headphone amp takes control of the volume knob (which we already knew).


----------



## dsmudger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Exactly! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I finally had to narrow down the choices for the DAC output first, then swap out the headphone amp until I had a decent sound. I'm beginning to think this is the "best" way to approach this Opamp rolling bonanza!

 One thing that was very interesting. I started with the Zero I have hooked up to my MKIVse tube amp. After trying all the possibilities, the OPA627's on the adapter won for the DAC side. I took that Zero across the room and hooked it to my SPEC main system, and it sounded terrible! I wasn't ready for that. So, I finished with it hooked up to my MKIVse and ended up using the LT1364's in the headphone amp. With this combination, I hooked the pre-out to my mini-rig's Super-T amp, and it sounds great!

 Then I took Zero #2 and started all over again, with this one hooked to the SPEC equipment. I ended up using LT1364 in the DAC, and LT1469's in the headphone amp. It sounds fantastic!

 It just goes to show that the DAC output has to be priority #1 and the headphone amp is all about finding the Opamps that works well with the DAC choice. The folks that have purchased the Zero just to use the headphone amp, will be driven crazy with possibilities. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The chart is their only saving grace!

 A few things were discovered while you were gone. One, there are two different sizes of adapters for singles to dual. The smaller will fit into the headphone amp. Two, the true pre-amp function was discovered. If you have the pre-outs hooked to an amp, and no headphones plugged into the Zero, press the pre-amp button to get a green light. In this position, the volume knob now works for the DAC output!!! Try it, you'll like it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If your headphones are plugged in, the headphone amp takes control of the volume knob (which we already knew). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Right that's all good stuff/thanks - in that case I'll be ordering at least two metal 627s when Mr Wu at diykits is back from holiday (seems to be by far the cheapest place for those), and I'll look into those adaptors seeing as I've only got two right now/would have needed at least one more anyway at some point (and the type I've got does fit into the left side of the board if you carefully bend the caps out of the way, at least on my unit).

 Also I'll have to have another go with my 1364s - didn't like them at all the first time round but now I'm beginning to appreciate that this whole burn-in thing does actually make a real noticeable difference!


----------



## Fremen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was thinking that a true temperature test might reveal some truth or needs.
 As soon as my LT1028's come in, I think it might be worth my time to run specific combinations and take direct temperature readings. Could you guys suggest to me which combinations have heat concerns? Thanks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Something I noticed: if you keep the OPA2604 in the DAC, the LT1057s, LM4562s, LT1361s, LT1364s in the headamp section are not heating. Even the LT1469 is just warm.
 As soon as you put one that gets hot in the dac section, the LT1361, TL1364 and LT1469 are getting hot in the headamp.
 Oscillations with high bandwith opamps??
 The components in the Low pass filter of the DAC may not be sweetable for all opamps.
 I will try to draw the schematic around the opamp DAC to see what I can get.


----------



## edguetzow

I got an email reply from Cimarron Tech about the 627 on adaptor. They have them listed on site at https://www.cimarrontechnology.com/i...ATS&Category=6

 Prices on that page are for a single 627 on 2 types of adaptors. Thoughts on this anyone?


----------



## diab0lik

is there a way i can use line out from my iriver and connect to the coax? it only has a mini headphone jack


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *diab0lik* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_is there a way i can use line out from my iriver and connect to the coax? it only has a mini headphone jack_

 

Not that I've heard of. Sorry!


----------



## diab0lik

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not that I've heard of. Sorry! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Didnt think so oh well maybe its time to update my DAP


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fremen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Something I noticed: if you keep the OPA2604 in the DAC, the LT1057s, LM4562s, LT1361s, LT1364s in the headamp section are not heating. Even the LT1469 is just warm.
 As soon as you put one that gets hot in the dac section, the LT1361, TL1364 and LT1469 are getting hot in the headamp.
 Oscillations with high bandwith opamps??
 The components in the Low pass filter of the DAC may not be sweetable for all opamps.
 I will try to draw the schematic around the opamp DAC to see what I can get._

 

That is interesting. I'll try to do the temperature measurements this weekend, if I get time. What ever it is, it isn't audible (in our range).


----------



## fault151

does anyone know where i can get hold of a JRC 4566AD op amp?


----------



## fault151

I mentioned a few pages back that i recently bought a beresford dac and i already have a zero dac. I wanted to compare both their sounds in the hope to help any other viewers interested in both dacs. Heres my latest findings...

 right i think i have managed ot come up with the most accurate desciption od the dacs so far, here goes:

 I think the zero represents the music in its most natural form and sounds the most realistic to how it was when recorded in the studio. I think the beresford has the ability to transform any song to a superb sound. It can take a poorly recorded song or a cd quality sound and make it sound 10x better than it did. It adds much more weight presence to the music. The zero is a bit more picky on the sound, it represents it much more realistically and to a superb sound. Both sound great in their own way!

 hope that makes sense!


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RFL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sounds like the Beresford has been a great buy for you. How's its headphone amp?_

 

When i mentioned my findings i was using the dac and internal headphone parts from the zero and beresford. If i combine my beresford with my slee solo, the results are superb! The beresford provides the impact the solo provides the detail!

 Im not trying to say the beresford is better than my zero, there just different sounding completely! I wouldn't trade either of them! There both a well worthy contender of more expensive dacs that you can buy.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When i mentioned my findings i was using the dac and internal headphone parts from the zero and beresford. If i combine my beresford with my slee solo, the results are superb! The beresford provides the impact the solo provides the detail!

 Im not trying to say the beresford is better than my zero, there just different sounding completely! I wouldn't trade either of them! There both a well worthy contender of more expensive dacs that you can buy._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RFL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now you should also buy a Super Pro DAC 707 and you'd have the three best buys of DACs._

 






 This is how it starts! Next thing you know, your knee deep in DACs!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RFL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...at your expense 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Huh, I've already got two, guess I shouldn't talk much!


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Huh, I've already got two, guess I shouldn't talk much! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeh im finding my self being drawn to trying them out and hen not wanting to send them back! 

 Im really pleased with the two that i have though! Although, i wouldn't mind a music fidelity 24k dac.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeh im finding my self being drawn to trying them out and hen not wanting to send them back! 

 Im really pleased with the two that i have though! Although, i wouldn't mind a music fidelity 24k dac. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm forcing myself to hold out with what I have for a while. When Little-Dot comes out with their new balanced amp, then I'll be looking at balanced DAC options. It is going to be difficult to justify the costs involved though.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm forcing myself to hold out with what I have for a while. When Little-Dot comes out with their new balanced amp, then I'll be looking at balanced DAC options. It is going to be difficult to justify the costs involved though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

yeh thats the thing, it can end up costing a lot. Im gettig a bit addicted to making avlve amps, i have one on the way and another on order! he he


----------



## OvidiuDanut

I've read about 100 pages on this topic and will follow the next 81 when i'll have time but now i have two questions for you guys owners of the zero dac/amp.

 1) About the amp: How does it stack against up to 300$ stanadlone amps? And especially for Penchum how does it stack against MKV?

 2) About the dac: At which level of SQ do you rate it? If we were to speak about soundcards, could it be on par or better than soundcards like auzentech and Asus Xonar?
 Thanks!


----------



## bada bing

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OvidiuDanut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ 1) About the amp: How does it stack against up to 300$ stanadlone amps? And especially for Penchum how does it stack against MKV?_

 

The amp built in is fair. It is definately usable as a stand alone. It is maybe on a par with a good portable like a mini^3. It will drive high impedance cans - like hd650's - better than a portable by virtue of the beefier ac power and dual rail regulated power. The "$300 amps" I have experience with are all DIY solid state models like M^3, PPA & CKIII. They pretty handily best the Zero's internal amp, but what do you expect? The internal amp is only one feature of a $140 piece of equipment. I have more than $140 in just the internal parts of my M^3 .

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OvidiuDanut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ 2) About the dac: At which level of SQ do you rate it? If we were to speak about soundcards, could it be on par or better than soundcards like auzentech and Asus Xonar?
 Thanks!_

 

The DAC section is very good for the price of the unit. I'm not aware of any computer soundcard that will best it in two channel SQ. I have the most experience with a EMU 0404 and I clearly prefer the Zero DAC to it. The Zero's amp is clearly superior the the headphone out on the EMU. The EMU is a good comparison of the Zero's relative value in my mind. If you aren't using the recording features of the EMU, the Zero handily beats in all aspects of playback SQ for about the same $. I have listened to the auzentech and the zero is superior as a source from my memories of it. 

 The Zero is a very nice desktop music solution for computer audio. For the price, I'm very pleased with mine. It is easy to get too enthusiastic of an impression from a lot of equipment threads here. The Zero isn't going to best equipment at several times it's purchase price. It is an extremely good value for anyone looking for a cheap alternative to a computer sound card for mid-fi music at their work station.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OvidiuDanut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've read about 100 pages on this topic and will follow the next 81 when i'll have time but now i have two questions for you guys owners of the zero dac/amp.

 1) About the amp: How does it stack against up to 300$ stanadlone amps? And especially for Penchum how does it stack against MKV?

 2) About the dac: At which level of SQ do you rate it? If we were to speak about soundcards, could it be on par or better than soundcards like auzentech and Asus Xonar?
 Thanks!_

 

Read and scroll this thread here:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...ml#post3815579

 The Zero's DAC is going to be better than soundcard DACs. The ability to change the Opamps to further enhance it's capabilities, puts it in a different category all together. It is holding up well to other desktop DACs, so the value it represents continues to get better.


----------



## javaphones

Thanks to you guys, my wallet is $180 emptier. And my mouth is dry waiting for the thing to ship (something about Chinese New Year and natural disaster in the main land)...argh!!!...time for more coffee.


----------



## Henmyr

I've just got the OPA627, and is using it in the dac now together with LT1469 in the amp, and the sound is VERY good.

 Before this combination, I used LT1028 in the dac and LT1469 in the amp. This combination is also VERY good and was the best I've found for DT880/ms2i before I got the OPA627.

 I need to listen a bit more with OPA627 to declare a winner, but my first impressions was that OPA627 has better midrange. The LT1028 have a very detailed midrange, which can make the voices overly grainy sometimes, but other times make them really really good. LT1028 works VERY good with male voices. The bass has a bit more presence with LT1028 I think. The headstage is very similar. The LT1028 was the first which had a very wide headstage, something which the OPA627 share.

 If I had not bought OPA627, I would have been very happy with the LT1028 + LT1469 combination.

 LT1028 sound more hifi and clear with good bass presence, while OPA627 is sweeter, more easy to listen to (does not mean that LT1028 is harsh) and a bit more musical.

 I'm finally starting to really appreciate the Zero. It wasn't until LT1028 I really felt content with it.

 EDIT: Off topic: The op-amp list provided by Lawrence gave the impression that LT1028 and LT1057 was very similar, something I did not found at all. LT1057 have the better midrange of the two, but I think that everything else is worse, and not even a bit similar. LT1028 have a very impressive headstage while LT1057 is very closed in and small. LT1057 had very laid back treble I think, but LT1028 didn't have that at all.

 An LT1028 with the midrange of LT1057 or OPA627 would be the best one of them all.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RFL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just FIY, if the LT1028 becomes hot, it might be oscillating and this may compromise its audio performance somewhat. With hot I mean burning your finger if you keep it upon the opamp._

 

I will most definitely burn my fingers if I touch LT1028, it is very hot. It does not make the LT1469 in the amp very hot though.


----------



## ilgello

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RFL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sounds like the Beresford has been a great buy for you. How's its headphone amp?_

 

Beresford Amp is something that you don't want to listen 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 really poor to my ears (hd600, never tried it with my 325i), but I guess is the DAC you have to look at.....


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RFL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No good. I would bet it's oscillating; but perhaps of a different kind of oscillation that doesn't case the amp's opamps to oscillate too.

 I suspect that those filtering capacitors around the opamp in the DAC board have nonlinearities at high frequency that are causing the faster opamps to oscillate. In fact they're just normal polyester capacitors - not the best choice but I guess it works with the stock opamp and similar ones._

 

What can happen if it is oscillating?


----------



## OvidiuDanut

All righy than. I finished all 182 pages and my conclusion is this:
 Till i'll save for the Opera, i'll just have to try this cheap or should i say "inexpensive" sollution. Hopefully i'll get a flawless functioning unit
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Thanks for the thread!

 P.S - Thanks BadaBing and Penchum.


----------



## Fremen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RFL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No good. I would bet it's oscillating; but perhaps of a different kind of oscillation that doesn't case the amp's opamps to oscillate too.

 I suspect that those filtering capacitors around the opamp in the DAC board have nonlinearities at high frequency that are causing the faster opamps to oscillate. In fact they're just normal polyester capacitors - not the best choice but I guess it works with the stock opamp and similar ones._

 

It's also my guess. I'm working on it. I have ordered WIMA caps and will try direct decoupling of the DAC opamp.

 I have done some "reverse engineering" on this DAC LPF circuit. In fact it's almost based on the typical application circuit described in the AD1852 datasheet. Two modifications have been made to this standard circuit.(plus the fact that the resistors have been rounded to the nearest standard value)
 The first is the use of four electrolytic 47µF caps to isolate the AD1852 from the LPF op amp(2 per channel). It's good from a electrical point of view (no DC offset transmitted by the DAC) but not that good musically speaking (I will try later on to bypass them).
 The second one is a different choice of 2 caps and a resistor in each channel of the filter (C9, C10 and R20 for the left channel on datasheet). This leads to a non linear group delay response in the audio frequency range (C9<>C10) and a reduction of the frequencies above 6khz.
 With R20=10ohms, C9 and C10 should be 470pF to have the same response than the LP filter in the AD1852 datasheet. I will try it too when I receive my caps order.(of course on both channels
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 The funny thing is that I found the schematic of the zhaolu here (the one with the AD1852) and even if the circuits are different, they have exactly the same behaviour in frequency and in group delay, plus the same 47µF caps mod... cousins or brothers?


----------



## Fremen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RFL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well... the design similarity with the AD1852 Zhaolu was pretty apparent throughout; so I'm not surprised at the discovery.._

 

Yes that's why I simulated the zhaolu LPF too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RFL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That asymmetrical filter is somewhat strange to me. I don't have the knowledge to judge why this choice._

 

I was wondering about some trick to remind some tube sound but I don't know much about tubes..
 From what I remember from Bessel design filters, they are meant to keep constant phase and group delay...not to tweak them
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RFL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What I clearly see is that in the Zero the 560pf cap is of a different brand and perhaps dielectric from the 1nf one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The 560pF caps are made of polypropylen which is better than polyester like the 1nF yellow one, at least in the audio path.
 I will replace all the caps in the LPF with WIMA FKP2 - 2.5% ones. They are in polypropylen and cost 0.2€ each, so not a big deal (total cost 2€
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RFL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had already realized that there were those electrolytics to block the DC offset between the AD1852 and the opamp. You can bypass them, but from what I've read somewhere you're going to find yourself with about 50 mV of DC offset on both channels. This is not a problem for the internal headphone amp since it has its own decoupling caps, again electrolytic (probably Elna Silmic II ?)._

 

You are right. In fact I just listen to the Zero with my HD-650.

 If I have some time I will do the same with the headphone amp board.(unless some courageous folks already looked up and down and up and down and ... to draw the circuitry 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## bada bing

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fremen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes that's why I simulated the zhaolu LPF too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 I was wondering about some trick to remind some tube sound but I don't know much about tubes..
 From what I remember from Bessel design filters, they are meant to keep constant phase and group delay...not to tweak them
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 The 560pF caps are made of polypropylen which is better than polyester like the 1nF yellow one, at least in the audio path.
 I will replace all the caps in the LPF with WIMA FKP2 - 2.5% ones. They are in polypropylen and cost 0.2€ each, so not a big deal (total cost 2€
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)



 You are right. In fact I just listen to the Zero with my HD-650.

 If I have some time I will do the same with the headphone amp board.(unless some courageous folks already looked up and down and up and down and ... to draw the circuitry 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)_

 

Awesome info, thanks for the work.

 Besides the potential for opamp oscillation, one thing I have been wondering about is the bias on the final stage discrete transistors in the headphone amp. I haven't pulled the board out yet to trace it, but it appears like it has a pretty hefty bias current going through the final stage. The transistors stay pretty hot. Evidently set by the choice of fixed resistors. It could be a potential mod to put some trimmers in the amp section and fine tune the bias. Mine are definately pulling more current than needed for stable class A just going by the heat generated.

 Also, there is no reason for more than one set of DC blocking caps. One stage is required by the offset inherent in the 1852, but two blocking stages is redundant, and electrolytics at that.

 The sound of the Zero is pretty impressive, especially considering a couple of the design limitations. I bet for a few bucks in parts it can be made to really sing .


----------



## Clok

Anyone who has an order in heard anything from Lawrence?


----------



## fl00r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clok* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone who has an order in heard anything from Lawrence?_

 

It's Chinese New Years holiday. As far as I know until February 22.

 Bad timing to place an order


----------



## Clok

Oh, ok.


----------



## fault151

has anyone heard the zhalou dac? Im thinking of getting one but not sure which version is best? How do these compare the the zero? I have heard you need to do some upgrades to get the best out the zhalou?


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fl00r* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's Chinese New Years holiday. As far as I know until February 22.

 Bad timing to place an order 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Actually, the New Year Holidays are already over. China is up and running since 16th February...


----------



## fl00r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clok* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone who has an order in heard anything from Lawrence?_

 

I just sent Laurence an email and he replied:

 'The transportation is improved in Mainland China after the natural disaster of snowing . The next stock will arrive next week and I'll run in for one day and ship them out.'


----------



## dsmudger

OK been away a couple of days so behind on reading the last few pages.. but just to say, I finally pulled the lever and ordered six OPA627s in metal TCO 99 package 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've just stuck two of them in the DAC leaving my LME49720s in the headamp section - and I do have to say I've had my socks blown clean off! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Bass is bigger than anything else I've tried so far (finally where I want it, nicely making up for the brightness of my Grados), nice integrated sound and not at the expense of detail.

 Will try an all-627 setup later on, but wow - these 627s are a winner


----------



## OvidiuDanut

What's the ebay nick of the producer?


----------



## fl00r

biglawhk

ZERO 24/192 DAC D A CONVERTOR , HEAD FI AMP , BRAND NEW - eBay (item 230224146851 end time Feb-25-08 03:31:48 PST)


----------



## dantztiludrop

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dsmudger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK been away a couple of days so behind on reading the last few pages.. but just to say, I finally pulled the lever and ordered six OPA627s in metal TCO 99 package 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I've just stuck two of them in the DAC leaving my LME49720s in the headamp section - and I do have to say I've had my socks blown clean off! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Bass is bigger than anything else I've tried so far (finally where I want it, nicely making up for the brightness of my Grados), nice integrated sound and not at the expense of detail.

 Will try an all-627 setup later on, but wow - these 627s are a winner 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I've been looking around online for the OPA627s at a reasonably decent price....where did you get yours' from?


----------



## dsmudger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dantztiludrop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been looking around online for the OPA627s at a reasonably decent price....where did you get yours' from?_

 

Ah, they were from Mr Wu at diykits - he even threw in a free browndog adaptor since I'd asked if he sold them - and it was the small type that fits the right hand side of the headamp section - just how cool is that?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Pretty sure he's the cheapest source of metal 627s as well..

 BTW I've now tried the all-627 setup - it's more musical, balanced and integrated, but lacks some of the relentless crisp detail of the 49720, and the amount of bass becomes almost a little excessive. So I think I like the sound better with 49720s left in the headamp section - trouble is you still get a bit of dip at certain frequencies (though actually it's only noticeable with certain tracks where there's a an instrument or vocal that sits right in that gap..) and overall it's clearly less detailed than 49720s all round 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Very pleased with the sound overall (627s in DAC/49720 in headamp) - it's _by leaps and bounds_ the best I've got out of it (the bass extension alone is nothing like any other combo I've tried..) and I'd definitely recommend others try it and see how it works for them, but it still just kind of feels like this setup isn't quite up to the full potential of my headphones - shame the amp can't take OPA637s as they seem to get described as being a lot like the 627 but more detailed :\ 

 Perhaps there are some other fast crispy-sounding opamps out there that need trying in combination with 627s?


----------



## edguetzow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dantztiludrop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been looking around online for the OPA627s at a reasonably decent price....where did you get yours' from?_

 

Me too!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dsmudger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah, they were from Mr Wu at diykits - he even threw in a free browndog adaptor since I'd asked if he sold them - and it was the small type that fits the right hand side of the headamp section - just how cool is that?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Pretty sure he's the cheapest source of metal 627s as well..

 BTW I've now tried the all-627 setup - it's more musical, balanced and integrated, but lacks some of the relentless crisp detail of the 49720, and the amount of bass becomes almost a little excessive. So I think I like the sound better with 49720s left in the headamp section - trouble is you still get a bit of dip at certain frequencies (though actually it's only noticeable with certain tracks where there's a an instrument or vocal that sits right in that gap..) and overall it's clearly less detailed than 49720s all round 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Very pleased with the sound overall (627s in DAC/49720 in headamp) - it's by leaps and bounds the best I've got out of it (the bass extension alone is nothing like any other combo I've tried..) and I'd definitely recommend others try it and see how it works for them, but it still just kind of feels like this setup isn't quite up to the full potential of my headphones - shame the amp can't take OPA637s as they seem to get described as being a lot like the 627 but more detailed :\ 

 Perhaps there are some other fast crispy-sounding opamps out there that need trying in combination with 627s? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You should go back and re-try some of the LT's with your 627's. I still like the 627's with the 1364's in the headphone amp. Maybe that combo you would like?


----------



## Ash

I know this off topic for all of you talking about op-amp swapping. I have a very basic question about the functionality of this amp/dac.

 I want to use it as a DAC/pre-amp to feed my A/v reciever - thru the analog out. In addition I want to use the headphone amp part on the front for occasional headphone listening sessions. Is this possible?
 - What switches the output from the RCA - R/L to the headphone out?
 - Is this amp capable of driving cans like the AKG 701s or Beyerdynamic 880s effortlessly?

 Thanks folks!


----------



## dsmudger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ash* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know this off topic for all of you talking about op-amp swapping. I have a very basic question about the functionality of this amp/dac.

 I want to use it as a DAC/pre-amp to feed my A/v reciever - thru the analog out. In addition I want to use the headphone amp part on the front for occasional headphone listening sessions. Is this possible?
 - What switches the output from the RCA - R/L to the headphone out?
 - Is this amp capable of driving cans like the AKG 701s or Beyerdynamic 880s effortlessly?

 Thanks folks!_

 

Haven't tried this myself but it's been reported that it's the presence of headphones in the front socket that switches it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But yes, either way there is a phono out on the back you can use for this..

 As for driving headphones I've never turned mine up above around the 10 o'clock position, so I really don't think you'll have any trouble even with hard to drive models.


----------



## edguetzow

Quote:


 shame the amp can't take OPA637s as they seem to get described as being a lot like the 627 but more detailed :\ 
 

Thanks for the update!!

 So, have you read or heard if the OPA637's will work well in our Zero's Dac section?


----------



## Fremen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RFL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Funny. Once I had ordered them by mistake [as I just recalled], and now I find myself with WIMA FKP2 10nF and 1nF caps ready to use in the Zero... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Unfortunately I'm missing the 560 pf value. I think I'll substitute that with 220 pf both in C9 and in C10 as in the AD1852 datasheet; and change the 10 ohm output series resistor to 100 or 200 ohms, leaving in the 10 nF parallel caps._

 

Here are some couples of values that would follow the AD1852 datasheet LPF behaviour (for C9=C10 and R20):
 470pF, 10 ohms
 330pF, 130 Ohms
 220pf , 200 Ohms


----------



## Fremen

I received today the WIMA caps I ordered yesterday.
 Here is the mod:
 I replaced the two 560pF and 1nF caps of the DAC filter (C9,C10,C11 and C12 in the AD1852 datasheet) with 470pF caps to extand the bandwith and have the same response than the typical application filter (as I described in a previous post). At the same time I replaced the other caps with they equivalent in polypropylene.
 The results are surprising. I have to listen further but for now I already changed my opamps config. I have been using the stock OPA2604 in the dac filter and 2 LM4562 in the amp section (because of the cleaner highs compare to the stock NE5532) for 2 weeks now. When I first switched my zero on after the mod, I found a complete change. Not surprisingly, the highs were ... lounder, too much for my taste with the LM4562. So I put back the 2 NE5532 in the amp and now I have the highs of the LM4562 before the mod with the basses of the NE5532 wich I prefered compare to the LM4562. I find the highs also much clearer after the mod.

 Edit: I just put back the LM4562 in the amp and finally still like it better than the NE5532


----------



## bada bing

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ash* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know this off topic for all of you talking about op-amp swapping. I have a very basic question about the functionality of this amp/dac.

 I want to use it as a DAC/pre-amp to feed my A/v reciever - thru the analog out. In addition I want to use the headphone amp part on the front for occasional headphone listening sessions. Is this possible?
 - What switches the output from the RCA - R/L to the headphone out?
 - Is this amp capable of driving cans like the AKG 701s or Beyerdynamic 880s effortlessly?

 Thanks folks!_

 

The zero has a limited switch function. The head phone button on the front toggles the output from: volume control through the RCA + headphone jack off or; front headphone jack on with volume control + RCA out at line level. 
 So, yes it is usable as you describe.

 The amp section is capable of fully driving any common cans. I use it with my HD650's and RS-1's (examples of high and low impedance common cans), it has more than enough drive for both. more than 10-11 o'clock is damaging with Senn's, with Grado you won't make it past 9:30.


----------



## Ash

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bada bing* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The zero has a limited switch function. The head phone button on the front toggles the output from: volume control through the RCA + headphone jack off or; front headphone jack on with volume control + RCA out at line level. 
 So, yes it is usable as you describe.

 The amp section is capable of fully driving any common cans. I use it with my HD650's and RS-1's (examples of high and low impedance common cans), it has more than enough drive for both. more than 10-11 o'clock is damaging with Senn's, with Grado you won't make it past 9:30._

 

Thank you. That was very helpful to know. This amp is one of my top two contenders at this point. The added DAC functionality will allow me to integrate my my rig.
 From my limited knowledge in this area, as I understand it now - changing op-amps is akin to rolling tubes in a tube based system? Is this pretty complicated or doable?


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RFL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congrats! Seems like a fine job.


 Me, however, I want to stay "safe" and follow the datasheet indications. So I'll keep the same 1 nF values and just put in the 220 pF ones and 200 ohm resistors. I like the "analog" sound in digital stuff, which the stock Zero has.

 Also with the 200 ohm resistors the better opamps shouldn't oscillate anymore, thus they should reveal all their potential._

 

Will this resistor make the sound worse in some way when using op-amps which works very well in the stock zero? I'm very interested in this mod if it works out very well. I wan't to try the LT1028 again but don't want to damage anything.


----------



## bada bing

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fremen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I received today the WIMA caps I ordered yesterday.
 Here is the mod:
 I replaced the two 560pF and 1nF caps of the DAC filter (C9,C10,C11 and C12 in the AD1852 datasheet) with 470pF caps to extand the bandwith and have the same response than the typical application filter (as I described in a previous post). At the same time I replaced the other caps with they equivalent in polypropylene.
 The results are surprising. I have to listen further but for now I already changed my opamps config. I have been using the stock OPA2604 in the dac filter and 2 LM4562 in the amp section (because of the cleaner highs compare to the stock NE5532) for 2 weeks now. When I first switched my zero on after the mod, I found a complete change. Not surprisingly, the highs were ... lounder, too much for my taste with the LM4562. So I put back the 2 NE5532 in the amp and now I have the highs of the LM4562 before the mod with the basses of the NE5532 wich I prefered compare to the LM4562. I find the highs also much clearer after the mod.

 Edit: I just put back the LM4562 in the amp and finally still like it better than the NE5532 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Did you do anything with the 47nF electrolytics on the DAC output ? They are outside of the area pictured. I wonder about those 47nF caps. The DAC application recommended circuit doesn't include any DC blocking at all. It appears like offset might not be a problem after the balanced to SE conversion ? Did you consider temporarily shorting the two 47nF caps and measuring the offset at the filter output ?

 47nF are pretty big honky dirty electrolytics on a high impedance, low current line. I'm curious what the rational was ? I'm considering as RFL said - ordering hiQ film caps and implimenting the data sheet circuit exactly - sans 47nF electrolytic blocking caps.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ash* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you. That was very helpful to know. This amp is one of my top two contenders at this point. The added DAC functionality will allow me to integrate my my rig.
 From my limited knowledge in this area, as I understand it now - changing op-amps is akin to rolling tubes in a tube based system? Is this pretty complicated or doable?_

 

Hi, I guess I answered another of your posts in a different thread just a little while ago! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Changing Opamps to customize the output is very easy. They are just a chip in a socket. You pull out the old and push in the new. There is enough information in this thread to get anyone started, if they want too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 See my other post also. See ya!!


----------



## Ash

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, I guess I answered another of your posts in a different thread just a little while ago! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Changing Opamps to customize the output is very easy. They are just a chip in a socket. You pull out the old and push in the new. There is enough information in this thread to get anyone started, if they want too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 See my other post also. See ya!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Penchum,
 Thanks for all the very useful advice and tips. I was under the impression that I would be soldering little capacitor like things when swapping Op-amps. But I guess - what u describe is very easy and doable.
 Regards...


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ash* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Penchum,
 Thanks for all the very useful advice and tips. I was under the impression that I would be soldering little capacitor like things when swapping Op-amps. But I guess - what u describe is very easy and doable.
 Regards..._

 

Some of the guys here are doing serious mods to their Zero's. The rest of us, are only swapping Opamps. Not to worry, it is very simple and disgustingly fun.


----------



## Fremen

Previously on "Zero mod" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




:
 - C9, C10 (560pf, 1nF) replaced by 2x470pF, R20 unchanged(10ohms) -> same reponse than the AD1852 datasheet (2x220pF, 200ohms)
 - All the other caps of the LPF replaced by polypropylene caps, same value

 Is the asymmetric filter the secret of the zero sound? After 2 hours listening to the zero with this mod, I think so.
 The highs are lounder and very clean but the sound is not warm anymore. The zero signature is gone.
 Another consequence: as the medium and highs are louder, I have to reduce the volume which reduces the basses too ...

 So I resoldered the 2x560pf caps I removed on the 2x470pf (C10,C12) having then C9=470pF and C10=1,03nF (well, not good practice but it's temporary)and than...the zero sound was back, but not only: I think it's coming from the new polypropylene caps: the sound seems now more precise than before, in the all range.

 If you want to build a filter, follow the rules, if you want a good sound, don't


----------



## Fremen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RFL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congrats! Seems like a fine job.


 Me, however, I want to stay "safe" and follow the datasheet indications. So I'll keep the same 1 nF values and just put in the 220 pF ones and 200 ohm resistors. I like the "analog" sound in digital stuff, which the stock Zero has.

 Also with the 200 ohm resistors the better opamps shouldn't oscillate anymore, thus they should reveal all their potential._

 

Do you mean C9=220pF, c10=1nF and R20=200ohms? If yes, you will completely change the sound of the zero.
 From what I just saw with my mod, it seems to be better to follow the behaviour of the existing filter.
 C9=C10=220pF and R20=200ohms will give the same result I had with C9=C10=470pF and R20=10ohms.

 If you want to increase R20 around 200ohms but keep the zero signature, I suggest you try C9=220pF, C10=680pF which leads you to have R20=240ohms. It will give you the same response in frequency and the same trick in the group delay than the original zero.

 EDIT: a more tricky one but closer to 200ohms for R20: C9=330pF, C10=780pF(560pf+ 220pF downside) and R20=220ohms


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RFL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, after your experience I guess I don't want to touch the LPF anymore. The only thing I could still do might be changing all the polyester caps with WIMAs of the same value - but 560pF is a difficult value for me to find in polypropylene.

 So probably I'll just leave the LPF as it is. What I must do in my Zero is replace the big filter caps, two of which I have damaged out of...a hysterical attack. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll use some Panasonic FM and FC. With the occasion I'll probably replace the 100uF 25V electrolytics near the DAC chip & digital receiver with some 220uF 10V OSCONs that I have.


 Btw, thanks!_

 






 You have those attacks too!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Man, don't you hate it when it happens!


----------



## Fremen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bada bing* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you do anything with the 47nF electrolytics on the DAC output ? They are outside of the area pictured. I wonder about those 47nF caps. The DAC application recommended circuit doesn't include any DC blocking at all. It appears like offset might not be a problem after the balanced to SE conversion ? Did you consider temporarily shorting the two 47nF caps and measuring the offset at the filter output ?

 47nF are pretty big honky dirty electrolytics on a high impedance, low current line. I'm curious what the rational was ? I'm considering as RFL said - ordering hiQ film caps and implimenting the data sheet circuit exactly - sans 47nF electrolytic blocking caps._

 

I didn't shorten the 47µF caps for the moment because if I make too many mods, I won't be able to follow and understand (as if I could 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)what would happen at the end. But I intend to try it later on.


----------



## Fremen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RFL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, after your experience I guess I don't want to touch the LPF anymore. The only thing I could still do might be changing all the polyester caps with WIMAs of the same value - but 560pF is a difficult value for me to find in polypropylene._

 

Yes it's worth doing it. As for the 560pF caps they are are already in polypropylene 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RFL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So probably I'll just leave the LPF as it is._

 

Well... 220pF, 680pf and a 240 Ohms resistors are not that difficult to find.
 May be I'll try it this week-end ...


----------



## Fremen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RFL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe not when it happens...but after. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

I know exactly what you mean


----------



## Fremen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RFL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's that that 240 ohm in series followed by 10nF in parallel seems a bit...violent, to me. It may just be a psychological thing (since that's what we were at). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I agree. The intensity through it would increase from less than 1mA to about 7 mA at 10kHz and the tension on it from nearly nothing to 600mV at the same frequency...


----------



## Fremen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RFL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think that changing just the 10uF parallel caps (after the 10 ohm R) to polyprolylene should yield much of the benefit you got from changing all of the filter caps to polyprop._

 

If you mean the 10nF caps, I already changed them for polypropylene ones. they are the biggest ones on top.


----------



## Fremen

I have a pair of OPA627 on the way home (could not resist anymore 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) and some THS4032 too. Does anyone have feedback on those THS?

 Edit: Are the OPA627s hot in the DAC?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RFL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The full bodied sound seems to do good to Tom Waits's Blood Money. I like the full and textured midrange._

 

I suspect it gets that from the LT1364? Are you setup, where you can do a quicky comparison between the two units? Ow, and how much was it?
 Thanks!


----------



## Fremen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RFL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I also have and am curious about the THS4032. However I would not dare to try it in the Zero, since it's only stable at gains of 2 or higher... And then there's that 10000pf capacitive load thingy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The THS4032 is supposed to be stable with gain=2 or -1. In our case, the LPF has a gain of -1.1, so it should be OK.
 What is the 10000pf capacitive load thingy ?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fremen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a pair of OPA627 on the way home (could not resist anymore 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) and some THS4032 too. Does anyone have feedback on those THS?

 Edit: Are the OPA627s hot in the DAC?_

 

They are "Hot" sounding.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just slightly warm as I recall. I still consider them to be the best sounding for the DAC output. Whether I run them into my vintage systems, or to my Super-T amp or to one of my headphone amps, the sound is fantastic! I just need to get another pair for Zero #2.


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Allure* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Penchum, you should try LT1364 + LME49720. In a headphone amp it's making my headphones sing like rarely happened._

 

I've reached the 100 hrs with my Zero and tried several opamp combinations. With my setup I have to say LT1364 + LME49720 is in fact the best combination you can get.

 I'm using a Sennheiser HD-555 and a SB Audigy 2 ZS.

 I've found the LME49720 to be more detailed then LT1469 in the AMP. The LT1364 in the DAC is unbeatable. A close competitor are a couple of OPA627BP on adaptor, but still it wins hands down.

 BTW I also put an heatsink on each opamp, they can't do bad on them...


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've reached the 100 hrs with my Zero and tried several opamp combinations. With my setup I have to say LT1364 + LME49720 is in fact the best combination you can get.

 I'm using a Sennheiser HD-555 and a SB Audigy 2 ZS.

 I've found the LME49720 to be more detailed then LT1469 in the AMP. The LT1364 in the DAC is unbeatable. A close competitor are a couple of OPA627BP on adaptor, but still it wins hands down.

 BTW I also put an heatsink on each opamp, they can't do bad on them... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Great! That is good news! When you say the LT1364 is better in the DAC, is that listening to the DAC output to a separate amp, or what? Or was it just how it affects the built-in headphone amp? Thanks!


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great! That is good news! When you say the LT1364 is better in the DAC, is that listening to the DAC output to a separate amp, or what? Or was it just how it affects the built-in headphone amp? Thanks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hi Penchum. I'm saying both. 

 I believe the LT1364 is the best option in the DAC when connected to an amp (I've tried the Super T-amp and the Panasonic SA-HE70).

 At the same time, LT1369 in the DAC combined with 2 X LME49720 in the (zero) amp is the perfect match for me.
 Also 2 X LT1469 are good but not the best for my setup. I've also tried several other combinations, as I have a few opamps laying around 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 I don't have the Audigy 2 Drive, but I'm using a toslink optical connection through a self made board connected to my Audigy 2 ZS, although I don't think this really matters.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Penchum. I'm saying both. 

 I believe the LT1364 is the best option in the DAC when connected to an amp (I've tried the Super T-amp and the Panasonic SA-HE70).

 At the same time, LT1369 in the DAC combined with 2 X LME49720 in the (zero) amp is the perfect match for me.
 Also 2 X LT1469 are good but not the best for my setup. I've also tried several other combinations, as I have a few opamps laying around 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 I don't have the Audigy 2 Drive, but I'm using a toslink optical connection through a self made board connected to my Audigy 2 ZS, although I don't think this really matters._

 

Cool! Are the Senn HD-555's considered bass heavy at all? Or are they the ones that are more like the 580,600,650 types?


----------



## edguetzow

Thanks for your update, pincellone!

 I guess I will try the 1364 again in my DAC. When I first tried it, the bass sounded bloated and boomy. The chip also ran hot (still need to order cooling fins!) in my Zero. Perhaps I was hasty or expecting too much from the chip and should give it another chance. I have been using the 1469 as DAC and 1361 in the amp section and find it very good - esp in the bass.

 I am still waiting for a pair of 1028s to try and am hoping that they will arrive by mail today. It will be 10 days today since requesting.

 And I just ordered a pair of 627s on adaptor, too!


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cool! Are the Senn HD-555's considered bass heavy at all? Or are they the ones that are more like the 580,600,650 types?_

 

I didn't have the luck to try the others, but the HD-555 are very good value for money. Check this out

Review: Sennheiser HD 555 headphones


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edguetzow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for your update, pincellone!

 I guess I will try the 1364 again in my DAC. When I first tried it, the bass sounded bloated and boomy. The chip also ran hot (still need to order cooling fins!) in my Zero. Perhaps I was hasty or expecting too much from the chip and should give it another chance. I have been using the 1469 as DAC and 1361 in the amp section and find it very good - esp in the bass.

 I am still waiting for a pair of 1028s to try and am hoping that they will arrive by mail today. It will be 10 days today since requesting.

 And I just ordered a pair of 627s on adaptor, too! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Very good edguetzow, keep us posted. I'm also waiting for a couple of 1028s.

 To be honest with you LT1469+LT1361 didn't impress me that much, but of course results also depend on the particular setup and personal tastes.

 The 627s in the DAC scored quite high in my personal rankings. They are my second best after the 1364.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I didn't have the luck to try the others, but the HD-555 are very good value for money. Check this out

Review: Sennheiser HD 555 headphones_

 

That's a good read. I remember now, that I was looking at the 555 to replace my old 280pros, for computer output use. I still might do that. I see no need to spend extra on 595s, when the 555 will do just fine.


----------



## Penchum

I was going to mention, that when my order from LT came, no 1028s were in it. I don't know if they ran out, and I'll receive them later, or if I'm out of luck.


----------



## edguetzow

FYI, when I received my previous orders from LT, they were in separate shipments. My order came in 2 separate packets a couple of days apart.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edguetzow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_FYI, when I received my previous orders from LT, they were in separate shipments. My order came in 2 separate packets a couple of days apart._

 

Ow, ok, great! I hope that happens. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was all set to start swapping again.


----------



## fault151

Has anyone on here tried to upgrade any parts of their zero dac? I dont mean op amps, more like capacitors...

 If so post up some pics please. im thinking of upgrading parts but wondering what would be best to do?


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's a good read. I remember now, that I was looking at the 555 to replace my old 280pros, for computer output use. I still might do that. I see no need to spend extra on 595s, when the 555 will do just fine. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Smart thought Penchum. In fact, I believe that there are no audible differences between the 595 and the 555. The specs are pretty similar as you can see here:

Sennheiser Worldwide: HD 595 - HD 595

Sennheiser Worldwide: HD 555 - HD 555

 But I'm not sure that you will be able to find the 555 in the U.S., I can't see it in the Senneheiser USA website:

Sennheiser USA - Audiophile

 Fortunately, Ebay helps a lot. They are pretty cheap in Germany.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Smart thought Penchum. In fact, I believe that there are not audible differences between the 595 and the 555. The specs are pretty similar as you can see here:

Sennheiser Worldwide: HD 595 - HD 595

Sennheiser Worldwide: HD 555 - HD 555

 But I'm not sure that you will be able to find the 555 in the U.S., I can't see it in the Senneheiser USA website:

Sennheiser USA - Audiophile

 Fortunately, Ebay helps a lot. They are pretty cheap in Germany.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I have the 595's think they sound pretty good for the money but they are not as good as the hd600's!


----------



## supertrichi

Ciao
 I have the Akg701 and Sony MDR 7506 which I drive with the ProJect Headbox and I ask you:
 -Zero DAC is a significant upgrade how to headphone amp?
 - Zero Dac also improves the sound of Squeezebox and CD4000 old Marantz?

 Thank you


----------



## edguetzow

I have been periodically checking the thread for the Zero at the VR-Zone IT & Lifestyle Forum and thought this post might come in handy for sourcing opamps: VR-Zone IT & Lifestyle Forum! - View Single Post - ZERO 24 BIT/192KHz DAC/Headphone Amp/Pre-Amp

 I haven't checked all the links but the first (top) four are 4 opamp manufacturer sites that are handy and in a single spot.

 Hope it is useful for some esp those new to this thread.


----------



## edguetzow

I am currently reevaluating the 1364 chip in my Zero. When I first tried it, I found the bass muddy and imprecise. As I write this I am listening to YES - The Ladder/"New Language". It is a bass heavy track with lots of mixture in vocals, bass, mids highs, etc.

 I also listened to TOTO - Livefields/"Caught in the Balance". It has a great segment where I can hear the foot petal impacting on main drumset. I can feel the bass better than before. Super.

 I am pleased to say that right now it is a excellent experience. Not what I originally remember hearing from this chip. FYI, I am running the 1364 as DAC out to my Gilmore Lite so I am not using the onboard opamps for the phones. Switching out between 1364 and 1469 leaves me with 1364 as the winner.

 I would like to note that my 1st impression may have been affected by a bent pin/prong on the 1364. When I put it in today, I noticed this and straightened it out. It is very possible that when I first used it that I bent it as I inserted it and that pin never made proper contact.

 A good lesson to remember - to seat the chip properly!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I still have the 1361 chips in the headphone out section. The sound is, to my ears, equivalent to my Gilmore! Awesome upgrade. I will be trying this 1364 for the next few days until get my 627s for comparison.


----------



## jamato8

Where do you purchase one and are there any images?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PbFree* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry to disappoint, but indeed there are audible differences - not necessarily all for the better._

 

Please, elaborate a little for me? Thanks!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have the 595's think they sound pretty good for the money but they are not as good as the hd600's!_

 

I'm pretty sure you are correct. I really like my HD-600s. I was looking for something to use exclusively with my computer, that doesn't cost as much as the 580,600,650 types, but sounds good in its own way. Comfort is a concern as well.


----------



## davve

Hello! I got a email from Chan! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Dear Sir ,



 I ordered a new board for you and will arrive on the coming week . I'll run in for one day and will let you know when it is on the way.



 Please confirm your shipping address.




 Thank you very much .





 Best regards,

 Lawrence


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PbFree* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I only had the HD595. They say the HD595 is clearly more detailed, and has less boxiness (perhaps the damping element inside the earcups isn't there in the HD555?). The HD555 would perhaps have a smoother midrange and bigger bass.

 I'm sure that all in all the HD555 is a great headphone for the price; I found the HD595 a little bit too lean sounding._

 

Well, it's hard to compare the two models if you don't actually have both of them at hand. I know for sure that there are some "physical" differences between them, for example the 595's headband is covered by pleather (artificial leather), whereas the 555 is made by plastic with foam rubber on the lower part. 

 The technical specs look pretty similar though...

 All in all, the 595 shell is supposed to be slightly more solid than the 555. I can only say that my 555 is quite confortable and solid enough for my needs...


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PbFree* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The important difference is in the drivers. The HD595 measurements made by Headroom show slightly more extension and better lower treble linearity; and mostly the HD595 has lower distortion. But again, this doesn't mean it has to be "better" period._

 

That's correct, but these differences cannot be actually perceived by human beings. I was talking about audible differences. I guess there is a bit of marketing strategy there as well...


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PbFree* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And here lies my disagreement. They can and they will. Otherwise the HD595 would sound no worse than the HD650, when it does._

 

As I said, I don't know as I don't own both the 555 and the 595. They share pretty similar specs though. And, there are things any company can't really ignore such as economies of scale, therefore IMHO at least the drivers MIGHT be the same. The different shell could have an impact on the sound as well anyway.

 The 650 is a completely different animal in terms of specs, therefore I'm sure it sounds different and very likely, better.

 In any case, I respect your opinion, although I disagree with you. Let's go back to our beloved Zero...


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello! I got a email from Chan! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Dear Sir ,



 I ordered a new board for you and will arrive on the coming week . I'll run in for one day and will let you know when it is on the way.



 Please confirm your shipping address.




 Thank you very much .





 Best regards,

 Lawrence_

 

That is very good news! I'm very glad to see he is taking care of us!


----------



## pincellone

BTW did any of you have a look the Zero manufacturer website?

Translated version of http://www.tianyun100.com/

 In China the Zero is being sold for about 680 Yuan, that is $95, or 64 Euros...


----------



## davve

wich does most diffrence? the dac or the amp?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW did any of you have a look the Zero manufacturer website?

Translated version of http://www.tianyun100.com/

 In China the Zero is being sold for about 680 Yuan, that is $95, or 64 Euro..._

 

Yep, the price has stayed the same since before the holidays. The only thing I wish Lawrence would do is switch to EMS shipping. It might cost a little more, but is fast and reliable.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_wich does most diffrence? the dac or the amp?_

 

In the Zero, the DAC commands the most difference.


----------



## edguetzow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello! I got a email from Chan! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Dear Sir ,



 I ordered a new board for you and will arrive on the coming week . I'll run in for one day and will let you know when it is on the way.



 Please confirm your shipping address.




 Thank you very much .





 Best regards,

 Lawrence_

 

This is very good news! Lawrence is living up to his very good reputation as a responsible vendor.

 It is great to hear from you, Davve! I was thinking about your situation last night and was wondering when we would hear from you. Nice to know that you will have your Zero back soon.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PbFree* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Back to our Zero 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have on order some 560pf polyester (yellow) box caps from ebay. I don't want to change all of the polyester caps, so I'll just change the green "nasty" ones with some that either are or at least look the same as the others (for better symmetry in the low pass filter).

 The only other change I may make is going from 10 ohm and 10nF (the R-C filter after the opamp) to 100 ohm and 1nF. So I could use the LT1364 without any stability concern.


 Still undecided whether to remove (short) the Elna Silmic electrolytics at all, or just bypass them with film caps._

 

Why even go with polyester though? They are some of the worst caps around and even in positions that someone might think the sound won't be impacted, it is because everything is in the sound.


----------



## Fremen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PbFree* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have on order some 560pf polyester (yellow) box caps from ebay. I don't want to change all of the polyester caps, so I'll just change the green "nasty" ones with some that either are or at least look the same as the others (for better symmetry in the low pass filter)._

 

Well, think about it twice. This board is really fragile. You won't be allowed to do the job more than one time. So think of something "definitive" before doing it. The hysterical attack is never far away 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (I know what I'm talking about
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ). So, my advice, if you go for it, make it worth and change all the filter caps with polypropylene ones.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PbFree* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The only other change I may make is going from 10 ohm and 10nF (the R-C filter after the opamp) to 100 ohm and 1nF. So I could use the LT1364 without any stability concern._

 

If I can save you some time, don't.... I did it (100ohms+1nF, 200ohms ...). Still heating with the LM1364, even with no music.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PbFree* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Still undecided whether to remove (short) the Elna Silmic electrolytics at all, or just bypass them with film caps._

 

I tried to shorten the 4x47µF caps: 93mV on a channel, 26mV on the other. No big difference to my ears and with my setting (OPA2604+LM4562 when I tried it) so I finally let the caps unshortened.
 Your feedback would be interresting.


----------



## fault151

I just looked at some pics of the Zhaolu dac. To me they look very similar in design and parts. Am i right? Is there much difference between the zero and Zhaolu?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just looked at some pics of the Zhaolu dac. To me they look very similar in design and parts. Am i right? Is there much difference between the zero and Zhaolu?_

 

Price


----------



## fault151

theres not much in the price though is there?


----------



## Fremen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just looked at some pics of the Zhaolu dac. To me they look very similar in design and parts. Am i right? Is there much difference between the zero and Zhaolu?_

 

Never listened to the Zhaolu but from the outside, the Zero seems to be a simplified version of the Zhaolu. Less boards, less components, some of them with lower quality (caps of the LP filter seems already to be polypropylene on the zhaolu).
 It doesn't mean necessarily that there is a big difference in the sound between the zero and the AD1852 zhaolu version.

 If somebody already listened to both, the feedback would be interresting.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_theres not much in the price though is there?_

 

Zero at $139 vs Zhaolu 2.5a at $142 or 2.5c at $215. I guess it comes down to features and specs. The only big difference I see between the Zero and the 2.5a is the Zero's dual mono headphone amp. The 2.5c has the Cirrus Logic CS4398 DAC chip. Ow, and the 2.5c comes with an optical cable. The Zhaolu's have an option for a discrete headphone amp module for $50 more.


----------



## smirnoff04

Wow, this thread has gotten LOOONG!

 My zero is still going strong. So glad I bought this thing. If anyone out there considering this DAC/AMP because it looks like it would fit your needs, just go ahead and get it.


----------



## jamato8

Why not use polystyrene?


----------



## aural1ty

What to choose if using built-in headphone amp only ?

 Zero ($139)
 Zhaolu D2.5A ($142)
 Zhaolu D2.5A + Discrete Headphone Module Upgrade ($192)
 Zhaolu D2.5C ($215)
 Zhaolu D2.5C + Discrete Headphone Module Upgrade ($265)

 Zhaolu has analog input/output also


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Zero at $139 vs Zhaolu 2.5a at $142 or 2.5c at $215. I guess it comes down to features and specs. The only big difference I see between the Zero and the 2.5a is the Zero's dual mono headphone amp. The 2.5c has the Cirrus Logic CS4398 DAC chip. Ow, and the 2.5c comes with an optical cable. The Zhaolu's have an option for a discrete headphone amp module for $50 more. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I guess there probably wont be alot in it then. Im still considering the discrete op amps for the zero. Im not sure if i can fit them in though. Im soo tempted to get them!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I guess there probably wont be alot in it then. Im still considering the discrete op amps for the zero. Im not sure if i can fit them in though. Im soo tempted to get them!_

 

Ow, that's right!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well, I have to draw the line somewhere, and too me spending that kind of money violates what the Zero was all about in the first place, "quality audio at cheap prices". It would be nice too hear, but I'd almost bet there would be "diminished returns" on the cost. What do you think?


----------



## aural1ty

So does that mean the Zero's headphone amp is better than the Zhaolu's standard?

 I'll only use the built-in headphone amp, not going to buy an extra amp. Price and bang for buck is definitely a factor, I want something good but not too expensive, considering my two sources and main uses (movies/games). I'm starting to lean towards the Zhaolu for it's analog input, because these DACs only have one optical input, my Xbox & PS2 do not have coaxial..

 I've been looking at Toslink splitters but some people are getting problems with them so I'm not totally convinced that would work out. If the splitter doesn't work at least with the Zhaolu I could fall back on analog input for one of the consoles. Anyone happen to have experience with any Toslink splitter by the way?

 Also, the Discrete Headphone Module Upgrade ($50 extra) sounds nice. Think they do not send you the standard module, so because they can keep the standard part, the upgrade should be more valuable.

 Anyway what I'm thinking about is if the C version is worth the extra cost over the A version, especially for Xbox/PS2. And if the upgraded headphone module is worth it over the standard? Oh, and the Zero has annoying ultra bright LEDs, that's another little difference.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *smirnoff04* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, this thread has gotten LOOONG!

 My zero is still going strong. So glad I bought this thing. If anyone out there considering this DAC/AMP because it looks like it would fit your needs, just go ahead and get it._

 

Thanks for that Smirnoff04! Some may find it hard to believe, but there are quite a few Zero owners who stuck with the default Opamps and still love their Zeros just like you do.

 I still think it is one of the best college student units out there. Low cost in with big returns immediately and a low cost upgrade path down the road.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aural1ty* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So does that mean the Zero's headphone amp is better than the Zhaolu's standard?

 I'll only use the built-in headphone amp, not going to buy an extra amp. Price and bang for buck is definitely a factor, I want something good but not too expensive, considering my two sources and main uses (movies/games). I'm starting to lean towards the Zhaolu for it's analog input, because these DACs only have one optical input, my Xbox & PS2 do not have coaxial..

 I've been looking at Toslink splitters but some people are getting problems with them so I'm not totally convinced that would work out. If the splitter doesn't work at least with the Zhaolu I could fall back on analog input for one of the consoles. Anyone happen to have experience with any Toslink splitter by the way?

 Also, the Discrete Headphone Module Upgrade ($50 extra) sounds nice. Think they do not send you the standard module, so because they can keep the standard part, the upgrade should be more valuable.

 Anyway what I'm thinking about is if the C version is worth the extra cost over the A version, especially for Xbox/PS2. And if the upgraded headphone module is worth it over the standard? Oh, and the Zero has annoying ultra bright LEDs, that's another little difference._

 

That makes perfect sense to me, if you need that extra analog input. With the cost being in the same neighborhood, I think you are doing the right thing. I don't know if the upgraded headphone amp is worth the bucks or not.


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ow, that's right!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well, I have to draw the line somewhere, and too me spending that kind of money violates what the Zero was all about in the first place, "quality audio at cheap prices". It would be nice too hear, but I'd almost bet there would be "diminished returns" on the cost. What do you think? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I totally agree with you Penchum. A line needs to be drawn. 

 Besides, it is not 100% sure that all the discrete opamps are better than the others only because they are carefully handmade and look cooler


----------



## link9624

I have been looking through this thread and the zero looks like a great product for its price. I am looking to upgrade my current setup ( Hotrodded Xfi Music to HD595's) without spending too much and was wondering if the ZERO would be worth getting. 

 Would I see a big improvement over my hotrodded Xfi music?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *link9624* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have been looking through this thread and the zero looks like a great product for its price. I am looking to upgrade my current setup ( Hotrodded Xfi Music to HD595's) without spending too much and was wondering if the ZERO would be worth getting. 

 Would I see a big improvement over my hotrodded Xfi music?_

 

Hi! If you used the coaxial output on your X-Fi Extreme Music card, you will be by-passing your cards DAC and mods. So far, those who have done this before are reporting a much improved sound signature using the Zero. Plus, you could Opamp roll the Zero until you find just the right sound for you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I do this with mine, and it is really a big improvement. It also gives you a future upgrade path. Maybe later on, you want to get a tube amp. No problem. Just hook up the new amp to the Zero's DAC output and enjoy the new tube amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The possibilities are many and the negatives are few.


----------



## magnetiq

sorry guys was a away for a bit, but im ready to start 'rolling' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 what is the best place to get opamps from? considering I am in the UK though


----------



## edguetzow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magnetiq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sorry guys was a away for a bit, but im ready to start 'rolling' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 what is the best place to get opamps from? considering I am in the UK though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hi, magnetiq!

 I found this list at another site.

 Opamp IC Makers Sites
Analog Devices, Inc.: Converters Amplifiers Processors MEMS A/D Converters Analog to Digital Video Converter Temperature Sensors Analog Device RF Amplifiers Differential Amplifiers Digital Signal Processing Thermal Management D to A Converters Microc
National Semiconductor, High-Performance Analog for Energy-Efficient PowerWise Designs
Linear Technology - Linear Home Page
Analog Technologies, Semiconductors, Digital Signal Processing - Texas Instruments

 I have only dealt with Linear Tec so far. They have been consistent and take about a week to 10 days to deliver to me in the states.

 Have fun!!


----------



## smirnoff04

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for that Smirnoff04! Some may find it hard to believe, but there are quite a few Zero owners who stuck with the default Opamps and still love their Zeros just like you do.

 I still think it is one of the best college student units out there. Low cost in with big returns immediately and a low cost upgrade path down the road. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeah. I don't even understand this opamp swapping stuff, and maybe it's for the best. Five years down the road when I feel like a new sound I'll come back to this thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Keep up the good work though!


----------



## magnetiq

thanks for the list *edguetzow*, nice one


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *discostu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In my personal opinion, it is unquestionable that the Zero (stock) sounds very good and completely at an "audiophile" level of performance. If this is enough for you, you have to decide with yourself. Many people think they need much more than they actually need._

 

After all, it's not about going to the moon. You can easily replace opamps and there is actually a tangible result in terms of audio improvement compared to the stock ones...

 Of course, if you are happy with what you already have there's no need to go "to infinity and beyond!"


----------



## aural1ty

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That makes perfect sense to me, if you need that extra analog input. With the cost being in the same neighborhood, I think you are doing the right thing. I don't know if the upgraded headphone amp is worth the bucks or not._

 

Emailed Wu at DIYkits and apparently they send the stock headphone module along. So, it really is only $50 for the discrete headamp! I've done some research and the stock headamp has been getting poor grades. On the contrary the discrete headamp upgrade is supposed to be excellent!

 As pointed out the Zero represents a very nice low cost stepping stone for an upgrade path. You get a quality DAC with a headamp built-in, and later you can add a dedicated amp if you want. The thing is I was not really looking for a path, but for the best affordable all-in-one solution. I think the Zero DAC is on par with the Zhaolu DAC, but once the discrete headamp is added to the Zhaolu, I think it does not only jump up in price segment, but it also becomes a better all-in-one solution.

 Add to that it has the analog input which might turn out very useful. No annoying ultra bright LEDs. And the Zhaolu product line has been around for longer time and had several revisions. After all it must be a very solid unit by now. Plus, diykits seem to be well regarded around here too. It seems I can't go wrong.

 So I also think I'm doing the right thing by going with the tried and true Zhaolu D2.5A. And it seems the discrete headamp upgrade is not only worth the extra bucks, but you'd be nuts to cheap out on it if buying this purely for plugging in phones. When all is said and done, $192 is a bit more expensive but still at that price it seems unbeatable.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi! If you used the coaxial output on your X-Fi Extreme Music card, you will be by-passing your cards DAC and mods. So far, those who have done this before are reporting a much improved sound signature using the Zero. Plus, you could Opamp roll the Zero until you find just the right sound for you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I do this with mine, and it is really a big improvement. It also gives you a future upgrade path. Maybe later on, you want to get a tube amp. No problem. Just hook up the new amp to the Zero's DAC output and enjoy the new tube amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The possibilities are many and the negatives are few. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

yeh bypassing the internal card works a treat! The zero sounds even better from a cd player i find.


----------



## hxcxor

Just placed an order. Hoping it doesn't take _too_ long!


----------



## edguetzow

Howdy!!

 Welcome to Head-Fi AND the Zero thread!!

 Sorry about your wallet!


----------



## Penchum

Well, I'm back to scratching my anatomy again. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My LT1028's came in, I put them on a bdog, then put them in Zero #1 with LT1364's in the headphone amp. I hooked the DAC output up to my MKIVse, queued up some familiar tunes lossless, and I wasn't very happy with the DAC output. I then hooked it up to my Super-T amp, and it sounded ok, but not better than the OPA627s I had in there before.

 I put the OPA627s back in and left the LT1364's in the headphone amp. Both the DAC output and the headphone amp sound wonderful now. Go figure! I have a sneaking suspicion that the LT1028's in the headphone amp, backed by either a OPA627s or LT1364 in the DAC, would do well. Thoughts??


----------



## ptiJean

Heya all zero lovers,
 I have switched the 2604 to a LME4562 and found big improvements.
 Did anyone compare LME4562 and OPA627 ?
 What can I hope to jump from 4562 to OPA627 ?
 Thank you


----------



## hxcxor

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edguetzow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Howdy!!

 Welcome to Head-Fi AND the Zero thread!!

 Sorry about your wallet!




_

 

Thanks! I've actually been browsing Head-Fi for a couple years, which is what swayed me to my purchase of my current headphones (HD580's) a couple years ago. 

 Since I started lurking again a few weeks ago, I've already taken hits on the Zero and a set of SR80's.

 It'll stop there. I swear...


----------



## Seba

I had to take 2xLT1028 off from my Zero because when I set my X-Fi to "Game" mode (sampling rate drops down to 48 kHz) the background noise was unbearable. With 96 kHz sampling rate it was not so obvious.

 I changed LT1364 to DAC and first impressions are that it sounds as good or better than 2xLT1028. Bass seems to have more impact now.

 BTW I have sent 3 e-mails to Lawrence and asked if he could send me new 2xOPA627's and DY2000 because mine broke in the first week. I haven't got any answer from him. I'm getting pretty frustrated.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seba* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had to take 2xLT1028 off from my Zero because when I set my X-Fi to "Game" mode (sampling rate drops down to 48 kHz) the background noise was unbearable. With 96 kHz sampling rate it was not so obvious.

 I changed LT1364 to DAC and first impressions are that it sounds as good or better than 2xLT1028. Bass seems to have more impact now.

 BTW I have sent 3 e-mails to Lawrence and asked if he could send me new 2xOPA627's and DY2000 because mine broke in the first week. I haven't got any answer from him. I'm getting pretty frustrated._

 

I agree, it is hard to beat the LT1364. I prefer the OPA627s in the DAC purely for the DAC output sound, going to other amps. If I was using the Zero and it's headphone amp all the time, I'd have the LT1364 in the DAC for sure. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 How did your Opamps brake?


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seba* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had to take 2xLT1028 off from my Zero because when I set my X-Fi to "Game" mode (sampling rate drops down to 48 kHz) the background noise was unbearable. With 96 kHz sampling rate it was not so obvious.

 I changed LT1364 to DAC and first impressions are that it sounds as good or better than 2xLT1028. Bass seems to have more impact now.

 BTW I have sent 3 e-mails to Lawrence and asked if he could send me new 2xOPA627's and DY2000 because mine broke in the first week. I haven't got any answer from him. I'm getting pretty frustrated._

 

I'm waiting for a third LME49720 to be tested in the DAC, where I now have the LT1364. I'm keeping the 2 LME49720 that I already have in the amp.

 In any case, I'm VERY happy with LT1364+LME49720 already. I know that opamp mixing may produce better results, but these LME49720s are incredible, so I believe an uniform triad is worth a try.

 Let's say I'm just curious to know if there is still room for improvement... 

 I'm nearly done, I guess. 

 That will be my last opamp rolling in the ZERO, I only have to choose between these two opamps in the DAC, then I'll stop (at least for a while 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## Seba

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree, it is hard to beat the LT1364. I prefer the OPA627s in the DAC purely for the DAC output sound, going to other amps. If I was using the Zero and it's headphone amp all the time, I'd have the LT1364 in the DAC for sure. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 How did your Opamps brake? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

When I used OPA627's, suddenly my left channel muted and I could hear noise from it when I adjust the volume. I was very scared that my RS-2's were broken, luckily they weren't. I tested the OPA627's with another Browndog adapter and it's still broken.

 DY2000 has some hissing in the highest notes which came suddenly. First it was okay.


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ptiJean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Heya all zero lovers,
 I have switched the 2604 to a LME4562 and found big improvements.
 Did anyone compare LME4562 and OPA627 ?
 What can I hope to jump from 4562 to OPA627 ?
 Thank you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

No surprise there, LM4562 is actually the LME49720 I'm talking about. National Semi has changed the part number. As I said, this is an excellent opamp, and IMHO, it performs better than opa627.

LME49720 - Dual High Performance, High Fidelity Audio Operational Amplifier

LM4562 - Dual High Performance, High Fidelity Audio Operational Amplifier


----------



## Seba

I have a LM4562 in my X-Fi and it made the sound very sterile and the highs were too bright. No wonder I wasn't happy with the sound even if I changed amps and headphones. I got always listening fatique with bright highs.

 Now when I use my X-Fi only as a transporter and let the Zero do the DAC duties the sound is more involving and smooth but detailed.

 So when someone is saying that LM4562 is a very good opamp, some people (like me) is not liking it sound sig at all. I'll probably order LT1364 SOIC and replace my LM4562 with it in the X-Fi.


----------



## Ash

Hi guys!
 Pulled the trigger on the ZERO about a week ago. God knows when it will ship. Chan didnt have it in stock. I have been lurking around for a while. And all talk of Op-amp swapping makes me so impatient.
 So just one question - what would be the first change in Op-amps I should try... and where would I purchase it.
 Thanks!


----------



## ptiJean

Thank you for the answers 4562/OPA627.
 Where can I find the LT1364 to buy ? Ebay ? Don't find it there.
 Thank you !


----------



## ptiJean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No surprise there, LM4562 is actually the LME49720 I'm talking about. National Semi has changed the part number. As I said, this is an excellent opamp, and IMHO, it performs better than opa627.

LME49720 - Dual High Performance, High Fidelity Audio Operational Amplifier

LM4562 - Dual High Performance, High Fidelity Audio Operational Amplifier_

 

Thank you a lot!
 I'm very disappointed with the 2604, but very happy with the LME4562 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 By the way, I did not notice any extra trebble with the 4562, trebble seem detailed, smooth and addictive !

 Another question : do you know the Zenitude OPA ?
AOP ZENITUDE l'arme ultime pour votre lecteur CD en vente sur eBay.fr (fin le 09-Mar-08 00:17:27 Paris)





 Thank you.


----------



## Cecala

I can't believe this thread is still going on!!


----------



## fl00r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ash* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys!
 Pulled the trigger on the ZERO about a week ago. God knows when it will ship. Chan didnt have it in stock. I have been lurking around for a while. And all talk of Op-amp swapping makes me so impatient.
 So just one question - what would be the first change in Op-amps I should try... and where would I purchase it.
 Thanks!_

 

I am on the wait for a ZERO as well. Yesterday I emailed Laurence asking for an ETA. He replied with:

  Quote:


 Dear Sir ,
 Highly probably will ship out this week and I'll let you know by email. 
 

With a little luck it will be on my doorstep somewhere next week.

 Good luck and keep us posted!


----------



## Ash

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fl00r* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With a little luck it will be on my doorstep somewhere next week.

 Good luck and keep us posted!_

 

AT least Mr.Lawrence replies to emails within a few hours, without fail. I know some other vendors, who take keep u waiting... not only on the product, but also on the emails.
 I have burnt in my AKG701s for about 15o hours now... off my stereo amp. But they sound so lifeless without the proper juice. I really hope he ships by this weekend. Lemme know if ur unit ships, or u hear otherwise.


----------



## Seba

It looks like that Lawrence likes to reply on e-mails which gets him money. I have sent 3 e-mails in this month and asking a solution for my broken op-amps (worth 96$ total) but no answer.


----------



## Ash

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seba* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It looks like that Lawrence likes to reply on e-mails which gets him money. I have sent 3 e-mails in this month and asking a solution for my broken op-amps (worth 96$ total) but no answer._

 

Thats disconcerting to hear... and sorry to hear about ur situation.
 Well he already has my money (and my amp)!


----------



## magnetiq

guys, is there any difference between these 1364s:

 LT1364CN8#PBF
 LT1364CS8
 LT1364CS8#PBF

 I'm about to try to get some samples, i need 2 if i want one in DAC and one in the Amp section right?

 damn i hate head-fi sometimes


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magnetiq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_guys, is there any difference between these 1364s:

 LT1364CN8#PBF
 LT1364CS8
 LT1364CS8#PBF

 I'm about to try to get some samples, i need 2 if i want one in DAC and one in the Amp section right?

 damn i hate head-fi sometimes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

LT1364CN8#PBF is the one you want.


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magnetiq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_guys, is there any difference between these 1364s:

 LT1364CN8#PBF
 LT1364CS8
 LT1364CS8#PBF

 I'm about to try to get some samples, i need 2 if i want one in DAC and one in the Amp section right?

 damn i hate head-fi sometimes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






_

 


 Well, actually you would need 3 of them, as 2 are needed for the amp and 1 is for the DAC...


----------



## magnetiq

thx for the help guys


----------



## pincellone

I'm done with my research for the perfect opamp combination. 

 After so many trials, I think that LME49720+LME49720 is the best one, followed by a close LT1364+LME49720 and a far OPA627BP+LME49720.

 By the way, I also changed the power cord with a better one (for desktop PC) and added a TDK ferrite bead on it.

 All the 3 opamps have been heatsinked. I wouldn't go for any other upgrade, as I noticed that the PCB is quite fragile.

 Happy listening guys!


----------



## thundercatslair

I ordered one on the 10th and Lawerance still hasn't sent it yet. Anyone else experiencing huge delays like this?


----------



## strologu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thundercatslair* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered one on the 10th and Lawerance still hasn't sent it yet. Anyone else experiencing huge delays like this?_

 

I've ordered one on 11th february..and nothing seems to happen..i'm thinking to cancel the order. A delay like this, without any explication, it seems unaccetable: more than 3 weeks to ship, more than 2 weeks to arrive when shipped..a total amount of 5 weeks?
 Do you think it's accetable? I think not.


----------



## thundercatslair

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *strologu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've ordered one on 11th february..and nothing seems to happen..i'm thinking to cancel the order. A delay like this, without any explication, it seems unaccetable: more than 3 weeks to ship, more than 2 weeks to arrive when shipped..a total amount of 5 weeks?
 Do you think it's accetable? I think not._

 

Yes, very unacceptable. I already asked him twice to cancel the order because he is taking forever to ship it. He ignored it and just told me it would ship out this week but it hasn't. I'm going to call paypal tomorrow and try to get my money back through them. I really wanted to buy it, but I suppose I'll look for a different headphone amp/DAC.


----------



## coredump

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thundercatslair* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered one on the 10th and Lawerance still hasn't sent it yet. Anyone else experiencing huge delays like this?_

 

Yeah. I ordered on the 5th and haven't heard or seen anything.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm done with my research for the perfect opamp combination. 

 After so many trials, I think that LME49720+LME49720 is the best one, followed by a close LT1364+LME49720 and a far OPA627BP+LME49720.

 By the way, I also changed the power cord with a better one (for desktop PC) and added a TDK ferrite bead on it.

 All the 3 opamps have been heatsinked. I wouldn't go for any other upgrade, as I noticed that the PCB is quite fragile.

 Happy listening guys!_

 

What headphones do you use to reach that conclusion? 

 It was a long time since I rolled any op-amps in the zero, have felt very content with OPA627+LT1469 for all my headphones (ms2i/dt880, don't use dt990 much).

 When I did try LME49720 + LME49720, IIRC, I thought that combination sounded just a tad tired, no real punch anywhere. I didn't find it very musical either. It was very clear and hifi though, worked good with dt990 but not a favorite with dt880/ms2i.


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What headphones do you use to reach that conclusion? 

 It was a long time since I rolled any op-amps in the zero, have felt very content with OPA627+LT1469 for all my headphones (ms2i/dt880, don't use dt990 much).

 When I did try LME49720 + LME49720, IIRC, I thought that combination sounded just a tad tired, no real punch anywhere. I didn't find it very musical either. It was very clear and hifi though, worked good with dt990 but not a favorite with dt880/ms2i._

 

I use a Sennheiser HD-555. SB Audigy 2ZS connected to the zero via a DIY optical toslink board. The zero goes to a Super T-Amp 

 My speakers are DIY FOSTEX FE-206E. Also another pair of DIY speakers with Soundstream Ls.652 4 ohm speakers are excellent with this setup. I love bass reflex full-range speakers.


----------



## strologu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thundercatslair* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, very unacceptable. I already asked him twice to cancel the order because he is taking forever to ship it. He ignored it and just told me it would ship out this week but it hasn't. I'm going to call paypal tomorrow and try to get my money back through them. I really wanted to buy it, but I suppose I'll look for a different headphone amp/DAC._

 

I've received an e-mail from Lawrence today. He tells me that my unit has been shipped.
 Has anybody received the same e-mail?


----------



## strologu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coredump* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah. I ordered on the 5th and haven't heard or seen anything._

 

Have you received any communication today?


----------



## thundercatslair

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *strologu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've received an e-mail from Lawrence today. He tells me that my unit has been shipped.
 Has anybody received the same e-mail?_

 

Yes, he told me it was shipped also.


----------



## Clok

My dac (ordered 07/02) is also shipped. 
 I got a tracking number too, so I think it`s all good for now.


----------



## coredump

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *strologu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you received any communication today?_

 

Yes. I got the email today.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thundercatslair* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered one on the 10th and Lawerance still hasn't sent it yet. Anyone else experiencing huge delays like this?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *strologu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've ordered one on 11th february..and nothing seems to happen..i'm thinking to cancel the order. A delay like this, without any explication, it seems unaccetable: more than 3 weeks to ship, more than 2 weeks to arrive when shipped..a total amount of 5 weeks?
 Do you think it's accetable? I think not._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thundercatslair* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, very unacceptable. I already asked him twice to cancel the order because he is taking forever to ship it. He ignored it and just told me it would ship out this week but it hasn't. I'm going to call paypal tomorrow and try to get my money back through them. I really wanted to buy it, but I suppose I'll look for a different headphone amp/DAC._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coredump* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah. I ordered on the 5th and haven't heard or seen anything._

 

Ok, here is what is known (at least that I know) about the orders process. Lawrence has been processing batches of 50 units, and when all 50 are complete, he ships them out. For some, this has only been a week or two delay. For others, this has been like a month or 6 weeks total. It's because of when you ordered and where they are at with the current batch of 50. If your order lands in the next batch of 50, it can take more time for sure.

 I know it can be tough waiting. I have done this twice, so I understand the frustrations. The only thing I can say for sure is that if you wait, you'll get your Zero. Looking back on it, it has been worth the wait. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Thanks!


----------



## Penchum

Well Poop. I'm a little slow on the uptake this morning. It looks like everyone has a shipping notice. Cool! You see what I mean about the "batches" processing. It messes with some, but the majority get status withing 3-4 weeks. You guys are in for a treat!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *XTC* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In mine, as soon as possible, I want to use the OPA827 in the DAC and the LT1364 in the amp. I also want to give a spin to: DY2000 + LME49720, LT1057 + DY2000._

 

Hey XTC,

 For the benefit of the newer "soon Zero owners", I wanted to share a lesson learned. If you plan on Opamp rolling (most do)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, then I highly recommend burning in the Zero with the stock Opamps for at least 100hrs. By doing this, you become familiar with it's default sound during and after it has matured. Then, Opamp changes will be on a mature unit and it will be easier to identify specific changes in relation to the default sound.

 Some have tried rolling Opamps right away, and after a 100hrs comes and goes, they end up having to go back and roll all over again, because the first listening session with each Opamp isn't how they sound now, with the unit being mature.

 The maturing process is a valid and audible situation. Many have proven it with the Zero, so burning it in can save you time and frustration in the long run. Have a good one!!


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *XTC* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't really think that LME49720 + LME49720 will be a palatable combination for anyone. You must be a hardcore detail freak. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes I am! In fact LME49720 + LME49720 gives you the most detailed sound of all. 

 If you don't like that, than you might be willing to try my second best: LT1364+LME49720. This combination sounds clearly more "analog" than my favorite one. It gives you a well rounded sound though. 


 I met people who don't like blue-ray movies either as they say the picture is too detailed for them, they still prefer DVDs. I think the same applies to audio.

 After all, it's all about tastes...


----------



## fl00r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *strologu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've received an e-mail from Lawrence today. He tells me that my unit has been shipped.
 Has anybody received the same e-mail?_

 

Hmm, it seems I am the only one who didn't receives the shipment conformation.

 Must be the time difference


----------



## edguetzow

Just got my 627's on a Browndog. I am listening to them as I type this. So far it seems the soundstage is a bit wider with more "air" among the instruments and vocals. It does seem to be slightly cleaner than the 1364 that I have been using. Pretty much a toss up for me right now. I am going to listen to this for the weekend but I already know I have a winner with this or the 1364 as DAC.

 I don't think I will be rolling much after this. Just need to decide which to leave in permanantly. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Happy listening!!!


----------



## edguetzow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *XTC* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Enjoy! And maybe try the OPA827 too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW what opamp between OPA627 and LT1364 do you feel has better tonality / better musicality?_

 

Right now it is a bit early to say as it has to be either the 627s or the 1364. Since I just started listening to the 627s I am a little hesitant but it _seems _that these 627s give _me_ a sense of better musicality. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For me, the "musicality" has a lot to do with the exactness of the music reproduction without being too cold or analytical. I want it to be precise but have some warmth to it as well. I am really happy with the 1364 as DAC and even the 1469 to a lesser degree.

 Separation and soundstage seem better so far with the 627s but not dramatically so (to me!). I guess I can't realy give an accurate opinion just yet!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What makes it musical for you is important to consider as well!


----------



## ptiJean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_These are of the opamps I have at hand those currently 'at stake' for my Zero...

 LT1364, LME49720, OPA211, AD845, AD744 (comp pin), OPA627, AD826, LT1469, LT1122, LM6172.

 You can try all sorts of combinations - except that the AD826 and LM6172 can only go in the main DAC board and may not be used in the headphone amp board. Note that half of them are single opamps so you need adapters._

 

Shopper can perhaps help us understand OPA827 and OPA211 value ?


----------



## ptiJean

Thank you XTC,
 Do you know where to buy them ?


----------



## Henmyr

I now have LT1364 + LT1361 in the dac and I can see why Sennheiser users like the combination. It's very hifi sounding, clear, airy, tight impactfull bass, dynamics. The upper midrange is very nice sounding and clear. I need to listen to this combination more, but my first impression is that it may be too bright for dt880/ms2i. The treble is almost too present, but otherwise very good sounding without any grain and very nice sparkle.

 The bass impact is very nice, but it might be too little quantity for dt880/ms2i, which makes the focus shift even more to the hights. The resulting sound is very very airy and clear, but slightly thin.

 My perfect op-amp would now be the bass impact from LT1364, bass quantity from LT1028, clear and sparkly treble from LT1361 but with the amount of LT1469, the midrange from LT1057/OPA627/upper midrange of LT1364, air from LT1028/LT1361, transparency from OPA627/LT1361.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I now have LT1364 + LT1361 in the dac and I can see why Sennheiser users like the combination. It's very hifi sounding, clear, airy, tight impactfull bass, dynamics. The upper midrange is very nice sounding and clear. I need to listen to this combination more, but my first impression is that it may be too bright for dt880/ms2i. The treble is almost too present, but otherwise very good sounding without any grain and very nice sparkle.

 The bass impact is very nice, but it might be too little quantity for dt880/ms2i, which makes the focus shift even more to the hights. The resulting sound is very very airy and clear, but slightly thin.

 My perfect op-amp would now be the bass impact from LT1364, bass quantity from LT1028, clear and sparkly treble from LT1361 but with the amount of LT1469, the midrange from LT1057/OPA627/upper midrange of LT1364, air from LT1028/LT1361, transparency from OPA627/LT1361._

 

Maybe, just maybe, you'd consider picking up an HD-600 or HD-650? I know it represents an expenditure, but I can't help but think you'd really like the sound, especially if it was the HD-600. The HD-650s would probably be too dark for your tastes (as near as I can tell from what you have said before), but the HD-600s would give you the clarity and drive you like, while giving you the bottom end you have been looking for. Have you had any thoughts along these lines before?


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe, just maybe, you'd consider picking up an HD-600 or HD-650? I know it represents an expenditure, but I can't help but think you'd really like the sound, especially if it was the HD-600. The HD-650s would probably be too dark for your tastes (as near as I can tell from what you have said before), but the HD-600s would give you the clarity and drive you like, while giving you the bottom end you have been looking for. Have you had any thoughts along these lines before? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hehe yes I have had those thoughts many times
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have my aim set for the RS-1 though, and everything else is second priority for now
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The next phone after RS-1 might very well be a Sennheiser.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hehe yes I have had those thoughts many times
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have my aim set for the RS-1 though, and everything else is second priority for now
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The next phone after RS-1 might very well be a Sennheiser._

 

I wondered. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm curious about the RS-1. Why would they be #1 on your list? I've read what some have posted about them, but they didn't say specifically why they wanted them over other phones?


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wondered. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm curious about the RS-1. Why would they be #1 on your list? I've read what some have posted about them, but they didn't say specifically why they wanted them over other phones?_

 

I listen to a lot of metal and rock, and that is what grados do best, especially the RS-1 (I've read, haven't hear them yet). I really like the way guitars sound on my ms2, and if the rs1 are even better they will probably be keepers.

 EDIT: Priority 2 after the RS-1 will be a nice proper tube amp, something to last me a long time, maybe a Singlepower or Maple Tree


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I listen to a lot of metal and rock, and that is what grados do best, especially the RS-1 (I've read, haven't hear them yet). I really like the way guitars sound on my ms2, and if the rs1 are even better they will probably be keepers.

 EDIT: Priority 2 after the RS-1 will be a nice proper tube amp, something to last me a long time, maybe a Singlepower or Maple Tree
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *XTC* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IMO, if you're going to buy a Sennheiser, the best is the HD650 without question. It can play rock very well, with outstanding bass performance among the other things, and for my ears it is not "dark" - just not a champagne sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

What you are missing here, is what sound Henmyr likes, but that's ok.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I love how my HD-650s sound, I just know that Henmyr has different tastes than I do (from previous posts), and he would consider the HD-650 as "dark", compared to what he already has. That is why I was recommending the HD-600 in place of the HD-650 in his case. I own all three (580,600,650), and while I like the HD-650 the best, the other two are also excellent in their own way. Does it make sense to you now?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I listen to a lot of metal and rock, and that is what grados do best, especially the RS-1 (I've read, haven't hear them yet). I really like the way guitars sound on my ms2, and if the rs1 are even better they will probably be keepers.

 EDIT: Priority 2 after the RS-1 will be a nice proper tube amp, something to last me a long time, maybe a Singlepower or Maple Tree
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I almost forgot! Little-Dot is coming out with a "Balanced" tube amp, in March, for $699ish. Knowing how well they engineer their products, this may be something really great! Just something to keep in the back of your mind.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *XTC* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ehmm... no. I think it's just a matter of what sound you're used to (provided you're not deaf). So, it may take a little time, but getting used to the new sound would be rewarding if talking of the HD650._

 

LOL!


----------



## magnetiq

is it possible to get opa627s already mounted to an adapter?

 I can't find any and i dont have a soldering gun, even if i did im rubbish!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magnetiq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_is it possible to get opa627s already mounted to an adapter?

 I can't find any and i dont have a soldering gun, even if i did im rubbish! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I did, from Lawrence. It cost me at the time, so you should inquire with him first. Someone here on HeadFi makes the adapters, I just can't remember who it was. Someone over in the iBasso D1 thread I think. Sorry.


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magnetiq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_is it possible to get opa627s already mounted to an adapter?

 I can't find any and i dont have a soldering gun, even if i did im rubbish! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I bought a couple of OPA627BP on adapter and I'm not using them. I might help. If you are interested, send me a PM.


----------



## Fremen

I'm still very happy with my Zero, especially since the OPA627BP upgrade 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Seems it's now time to go for a LD MK IV


----------



## mp101

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magnetiq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_is it possible to get opa627s already mounted to an adapter?

 I can't find any and i dont have a soldering gun, even if i did im rubbish! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I've got some smt versions and some smt browndog's, when I get round to soldering them I'll PM you.

 Marc


----------



## sorcer

This info must be buried in this thread somewhere, but I can't find it. Sorry for the obvious question..

 I've seen the Zero on eBay, but apparently Lawrence is the manufacturer, and the best source (?)

 How do I order a unit from him?


----------



## fl00r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sorcer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This info must be buried in this thread somewhere, but I can't find it. Sorry for the obvious question..

 I've seen the Zero on eBay, but apparently Lawrence is the manufacturer, and the best source (?)

 How do I order a unit from him?_

 

I have just canceled my order for the ZERO. I have been waiting since February 12 for the ZERO to arrive but Mr. Laurence kept saying 'next week it will be shipped'. When I read that people here reported that they had received their shipping notice I asked Mr. Laurence whether he shipped mine as well and he replied that it would be in next batch, in two weeks......

 Needles to say that I am very disappointed to him.

 I think I will start from the beginning in my quest for a DAC that pairs well with my DV 336i and HD650/K701. (Any suggestions are welcome.)

 Sorry for this off-topic post but I had to have it off my chest.

 Ben


----------



## strologu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fl00r* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have just canceled my order for the ZERO. I have been waiting since February 12 for the ZERO to arrive but Mr. Laurence kept saying 'next week it will be shipped'[...]
 Needles to say that I am very disappointed to him._

 

You're terribly right! The same day i've decided to cancel the order by paypal i've received the e-mail with tracking number from HK.
 I think it's a shame waiting 6/7 weeks to receive a simple DAC from HK.
 I will obviously give a negative feedback on ebay, almost partially negative, saying clearly that the 7/14 days to receive the DAC, as reported in the auction, are a big lie. At the moment i'm so disappointend and angry that i even won't try the zero anymore 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 (and sorry for my english, not only rusty but raging also)


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fl00r* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have just canceled my order for the ZERO. I have been waiting since February 12 for the ZERO to arrive but Mr. Laurence kept saying 'next week it will be shipped'. When I read that people here reported that they had received their shipping notice I asked Mr. Laurence whether he shipped mine as well and he replied that it would be in next batch, in two weeks......

 Needles to say that I am very disappointed to him.

 I think I will start from the beginning in my quest for a DAC that pairs well with my DV 336i and HD650/K701. (Any suggestions are welcome.)

 Sorry for this off-topic post but I had to have it off my chest.

 Ben_

 

Well, I think that is very unfortunate. I wish he would switch from that batch processing crap. Too many folks are getting trapped in distant batches. Sorry too hear it's not working out. 

 He will be getting a steaming email from me, for sure.


----------



## sorcer

But.. what about my question?  I'm still interested, albeit less so. Should I buy from an eBay source? Is that how to buy from Laurence? What's his eBay name? Or should I wait?

 (sorry this appears at the wrong place in the thread; I thought I did a Quick Reply to Penchum..)


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sorcer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But.. what about my question?  I'm still interested, albeit less so. Should I buy from an eBay source? Is that how to buy from Laurence? What's his eBay name? Or should I wait?

 (sorry this appears at the wrong place in the thread; I did a Quick Reply to Penchum..)_

 

Lawrence's Ebay nickname is Biglawhk. Whether or not buying from him is up to you...


----------



## sorcer

Thanks. It seems like he's (just) swamped. If he's back-ordered, he should just say that, and let people know they have to wait longer for their item. Then they would at least know what to expect. He can build good amps, he should be able to keep a list and project shipping dates with some accuracy. 

 I think I want one of these, but I'm getting afraid to buy..


----------



## Ash

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sorcer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But.. what about my question?  I'm still interested, albeit less so. Should I buy from an eBay source? Is that how to buy from Laurence? What's his eBay name? Or should I wait?

 (sorry this appears at the wrong place in the thread; I thought I did a Quick Reply to Penchum..)_

 

I just emailed Mr.Lawrence - lawrencechanbig@msn.com

 I dont personally like ebay but that another story.
 He replied promptly. My dealings with him were very pleasant. He was forthright about the expected shipping date etc which for me was about 10 days. He sent me a paypal payment request... and thats it. He followed up with an email about the tracking number etc recently.

 If you are decided on buying this amp, just buy it from wherever, I dont think there is another supplier other than him. It sort of sucks like that, but thats what it is.
 Just one word of caution, if u decide to pull the trigger remember, that a batch of orders was processed just this weekend by him. If u order now, u will probably have to wait weeks till it gets shipped. Making sure u know that. Rather than feeling sore later. In any case if u pull the trigger... send him a email to get an ballpark shipdate.


----------



## Ash

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fl00r* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have just canceled my order for the ZERO. I have been waiting since February 12 for the ZERO to arrive but Mr. Laurence kept saying 'next week it will be shipped'. When I read that people here reported that they had received their shipping notice I asked Mr. Laurence whether he shipped mine as well and he replied that it would be in next batch, in two weeks......

 Needles to say that I am very disappointed to him.

 I think I will start from the beginning in my quest for a DAC that pairs well with my DV 336i and HD650/K701. (Any suggestions are welcome.)

 Sorry for this off-topic post but I had to have it off my chest.

 Ben_

 

Hi Ben,
 I totally empathise with ur situation. Ppl in line after you are getting seated in a restraunt is never a good feeling. Sorry that was the closest analogy I could think of.
 But I am thinking maybe there is a logical explanation for this delay. Maybe he only recieved the 110v versions of the ZERO, and I guess u guys have 220 in Holland? That was just a wild guess. But either way he should be more forthcoming about the reasons behind. Otherwise he is bound to lose customers...


----------



## sorcer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ash* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just emailed Mr.Lawrence - lawrencechanbig@msn.com

 Just one word of caution, if u decide to pull the trigger remember, that a batch of orders was processed just this weekend by him. If u order now, u will probably have to wait weeks till it gets shipped. Making sure u know that. Rather than feeling sore later. In any case if u pull the trigger... send him a email to get an ballpark shipdate._

 


 Thanks. I'll send him a note. I still think he should be able to estimate arrival, especially after receiving funds.


----------



## TylerEaves

There was a delay of about a month on my 110v Zero. Not actually here yet, but shipped Friday.


----------



## sorcer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sorcer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks. I'll send him a note. I still think he should be able to estimate arrival, especially after receiving funds._

 

I used the address you gave me.. msn rejected it. Here's the details:


 [size=xx-small]





> This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification
> 
> 
> Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently:
> ...


[/size]

 Not sure what this means; maybe he got a bunch of emails at once, and msn email server decided he was being spammed..


----------



## Ash

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sorcer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I used the address you gave me.. msn rejected it. Here's the details:


This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification


 Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently:

lawrencechanbig@msn.com


 Not sure what this means; maybe he got a bunch of emails at once, and msn email server decided he was being spammed..​_​
​
​



 I just double checked the emalID - thats what he uses!
 Maybe his mailbox is full or something. 
 Try again again especially from a different email provider if u have one...
 If it still doesnt work, one of us can send him a test email to see if the same thing happens...​


----------



## Ash

At least Hongkong post is fast.
 Mine was shipped on March 1 - and is in the US already.
 Here's the tracking:
 Date # Location Delivery Status
 1-Mar-2008 Hong Kong Item posted and is being processed.
 1-Mar-2008 Hong Kong In transit.
 3-Mar-2008 Hong Kong Processed for departure.
 3-Mar-2008 Hong Kong The item left Hong Kong for its destination on 3-Mar-2008
 3-Mar-2008 Hong Kong The item left Hong Kong for its destination on 3-Mar-2008
 3-Mar-2008 United States of America Arrived and is being processed.

 I am impressed!


----------



## Penchum

Just a followup for you guys who are thinking of ordering. I emailed Lawrence this morning, and well, I'll let you read the text of my email:

 Lawrence,

 I am getting much feedback from users on HeadFi.org, who have followed my review’s advice (on HeadFi.org) and purchased a Zero unit from you.
 The feedback, sadly, has become negative, because the time frame advertised on the eBay listing is not being followed.

 I understood why you switched to “batch” processing of orders during the winter holidays, due to the increased demand.
 Now however, the batch processing is causing BIG delays from the time a person orders a Zero, and the time they receive their Zero.

 I want to continue to recommend they purchase a Zero, but I’d like some kind of reassurance from you, that order processing will meet the advertised time frames. Please see what you can do about this, and reply back to me, so I can pass on what assurances you have given to me.

 Thanks!
 Penchum

 Here is his reply too me a few minutes ago:

 Dear Sir ,

 It is only due to the natural disaster of snowing in mainland China which is very serious damaged to China and many life lost , many peoples lost their home during this disaster. If you heard about the world news, you will know. Also the Chinese New Year holiday just finished few weeks. Chinese are hard working , they do not have much holidays throughout the whole year except New Year. And this is the only chance that they can back to their home town to see their parent. And the holiday is a little bit long.

 These factors just finished and I shipped out 50pcs last week . Next week another 50pcs will arrive and I'll finish my present orders. In future, the stock will stable again. the factory is not a big factory .

 I know there is a seller also selling this dac . But I know him , he cheated many buyers and disappeared. 
 he is:

 forexmen (55 ) Not a registered user 
 hifichannel (64 ) Not a registered user 
 leadsbeauty (76 ) Not a registered user 
 snow48_6 (315 ) 

 They are one person.


 Thank you very much .

 Best regards, 
 Lawrence


 Again, Lawrence is be honest and direct about how things are going for him. I honestly believe he is doing his best, and will get the ordering situation in better condition soon. I feel I can still recommend to others, that they should feel safe to order from him.
 Thanks for your time guys!


----------



## fl00r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sorcer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I used the address you gave me.. msn rejected it. Here's the details:


 [size=xx-small]






			This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification


 Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently:

lawrencechanbig@msn.com

 Technical details of permanent failure:
 PERM_FAILURE: SMTP Error (state 12): 550 SC-001 Mail rejected by Windows Live Hotmail for policy reasons. Reasons for rejection may be related to content with spam-like characteristics or IP/domain reputation problems. If you are not an email/network admin please contact your E-mail/Internet Service Provider for help. Email/network admins, please visit MSN Postmaster for email delivery information and support
		
Click to expand...

[/size]

 Not sure what this means; maybe he got a bunch of emails at once, and msn email server decided he was being spammed.._

 

This is most likely due to your email address (host). Some domains are blocked because of their notorious spam activities. Try sending the mail using another email account.


----------



## fl00r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ash* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Ben,
 I totally empathise with ur situation. Ppl in line after you are getting seated in a restraunt is never a good feeling. Sorry that was the closest analogy I could think of.
 But I am thinking maybe there is a logical explanation for this delay. Maybe he only recieved the 110v versions of the ZERO, and I guess u guys have 220 in Holland? That was just a wild guess. But either way he should be more forthcoming about the reasons behind. Otherwise he is bound to lose customers..._

 

Thanks Ash, but it's really not that bad. I mean there are other DAC vendors anyway. It's just that I am a bit allergic to waiting times after my traumatic experience with Xin. I waited 9 months for the Reference 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ben


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just a followup for you guys who are thinking of ordering. I emailed Lawrence this morning, and well, I'll let you read the text of my email:

 Lawrence,

 I am getting much feedback from users on HeadFi.org, who have followed my review’s advice (on HeadFi.org) and purchased a Zero unit from you.
 The feedback, sadly, has become negative, because the time frame advertised on the eBay listing is not being followed.

 I understood why you switched to “batch” processing of orders during the winter holidays, due to the increased demand.
 Now however, the batch processing is causing BIG delays from the time a person orders a Zero, and the time they receive their Zero.

 I want to continue to recommend they purchase a Zero, but I’d like some kind of reassurance from you, that order processing will meet the advertised time frames. Please see what you can do about this, and reply back to me, so I can pass on what assurances you have given to me.

 Thanks!
 Penchum

 Here is his reply too me a few minutes ago:

 Dear Sir ,

 It is only due to the natural disaster of snowing in mainland China which is very serious damaged to China and many life lost , many peoples lost their home during this disaster. If you heard about the world news, you will know. Also the Chinese New Year holiday just finished few weeks. Chinese are hard working , they do not have much holidays throughout the whole year except New Year. And this is the only chance that they can back to their home town to see their parent. And the holiday is a little bit long.

 These factors just finished and I shipped out 50pcs last week . Next week another 50pcs will arrive and I'll finish my present orders. In future, the stock will stable again. the factory is not a big factory .

 I know there is a seller also selling this dac . But I know him , he cheated many buyers and disappeared. 
 he is:

 forexmen (55 ) Not a registered user 
 hifichannel (64 ) Not a registered user 
 leadsbeauty (76 ) Not a registered user 
 snow48_6 (315 ) 

 They are one person.


 Thank you very much .

 Best regards, 
 Lawrence


 Again, Lawrence is be honest and direct about how things are going for him. I honestly believe he is doing his best, and will get the ordering situation in better condition soon. I feel I can still recommend to others, that they should feel safe to order from him.
 Thanks for your time guys!



_

 


 I believe Lawrence is telling the truth. Before buying from him, I placed an order with "hifichannel" and never received the item. It took me more than two months to get a refund with Paypal.

 I've just checked Ebay, I suspect the new nick of this dishonest seller is "iceppo", probably snow48_6 melt down already
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 P.S. Also the ice-ppo normally melts down...


----------



## javaphones

Hi Penchum,

 This is interesting. I received almost the identical email from Lawrence 2 weeks ago. My last email to him inquiring about the updated status went unanswered.

 Maybe I'm just impatient, but I don't think it's ethical to sell items on eBay that the seller doesn't have on hand. Am I out of line to say this?

 ...just really frustrated.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just a followup for you guys who are thinking of ordering. I emailed Lawrence this morning, and well, I'll let you read the text of my email:

 Lawrence,

 I am getting much feedback from users on HeadFi.org, who have followed my review’s advice (on HeadFi.org) and purchased a Zero unit from you.
 The feedback, sadly, has become negative, because the time frame advertised on the eBay listing is not being followed.

 I understood why you switched to “batch” processing of orders during the winter holidays, due to the increased demand.
 Now however, the batch processing is causing BIG delays from the time a person orders a Zero, and the time they receive their Zero.

 I want to continue to recommend they purchase a Zero, but I’d like some kind of reassurance from you, that order processing will meet the advertised time frames. Please see what you can do about this, and reply back to me, so I can pass on what assurances you have given to me.

 Thanks!
 Penchum

 Here is his reply too me a few minutes ago:

 Dear Sir ,

 It is only due to the natural disaster of snowing in mainland China which is very serious damaged to China and many life lost , many peoples lost their home during this disaster. If you heard about the world news, you will know. Also the Chinese New Year holiday just finished few weeks. Chinese are hard working , they do not have much holidays throughout the whole year except New Year. And this is the only chance that they can back to their home town to see their parent. And the holiday is a little bit long.

 These factors just finished and I shipped out 50pcs last week . Next week another 50pcs will arrive and I'll finish my present orders. In future, the stock will stable again. the factory is not a big factory .

 I know there is a seller also selling this dac . But I know him , he cheated many buyers and disappeared. 
 he is:

 forexmen (55 ) Not a registered user 
 hifichannel (64 ) Not a registered user 
 leadsbeauty (76 ) Not a registered user 
 snow48_6 (315 ) 

 They are one person.


 Thank you very much .

 Best regards, 
 Lawrence


 Again, Lawrence is be honest and direct about how things are going for him. I honestly believe he is doing his best, and will get the ordering situation in better condition soon. I feel I can still recommend to others, that they should feel safe to order from him.
 Thanks for your time guys!



_


----------



## rpveld

Oh crap, I just ordered one yesterday from Snow 48_6 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (sorry Penchum I couldn’t resist 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
 I hope he is legit after all.
 Just send him a email asking if he could give me a shipping date and tracking number. Just to see if he answers.
 If he doesn’t I know what time it is.
 I have to wait and see.
 I am glad my LD MK V and ATH ES7 arrived today so I have somthing to play with


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *javaphones* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Penchum,

 This is interesting. I received almost the identical email from Lawrence 2 weeks ago. My last email to him inquiring about the updated status went unanswered.

 Maybe I'm just impatient, but I don't think it's ethical to sell items on eBay that the seller doesn't have on hand. Am I out of line to say this?

 ...just really frustrated.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I do see your point, and I wouldn't tell you that it is wrong. In this case, he receives a lot of 50 from the factory, bi-monthly, so lining up sales does make sense. When he gets more in from the factory than he is selling each month, he'll end up with a small surplus in his place of business, and will be able to respond better to a sale. That is what he's trying to say here. I'm sure that is the way he wants it to be also.

 Back when I bought my first one, I placed the order and he shipped the following Monday. That was nice. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It was due to him having them available in his place. Soon I think he'll be able to do this again, and we all benefit from it.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rpveld* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh crap, I just ordered one yesterday from Snow 48_6 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (sorry Penchum I couldn’t resist 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
 I hope he is legit after all.
 Just send him a email asking if he could give me a shipping date and tracking number. Just to see if he answers.
 If he doesn’t I know what time it is.
 I have to wait and see.
 I am glad my LD MK V and ATH ES7 arrived today so I have somthing to play with 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Wow!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What did his latest eBay feedbacks look like??
 Ow man ow man o man!


----------



## strologu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've just checked Ebay, I suspect the new nick of this dishonest seller is "iceppo", probably snow48_6 melt down already
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 P.S. Also the ice-ppo normally melts down..._

 

Oh no, i've bought and received an item from iceppo, with very fast shipping. My feedback is visible on his page on ebay.


----------



## rpveld

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What did his latest eBay feedbacks look like??
 Ow man ow man o man!_

 

He's got 104 positive and 2 negative the last month so that isn't to bad I guess.
 On the other hand, I understand that those feedbacks can be faked.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Oh well, I have ordered about 7 items over the last three weeks from eBay and they all came in quick and in good shape, so I hope this one turns out all right to.


----------



## strologu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *javaphones* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Penchum,
 This is interesting. I received almost the identical email from Lawrence 2 weeks ago. My last email to him inquiring about the updated status went unanswered.
 Maybe I'm just impatient, but I don't think it's ethical to sell items on eBay that the seller doesn't have on hand. Am I out of line to say this?
 ...just really frustrated.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I have to agree totally. That's the problem, is'nt ethical to sell items and shipping them with a 3/5 weeks delay
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I only hope the Zero is a colossal bargain, in order to forget this frustrating wait


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *strologu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have to agree totally. That's the problem, is'nt ethical to sell items and shipping them with a 3/5 weeks delay
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I only hope the Zero is a colossal bargain, in order to forget this frustrating wait
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I can tell you for sure, the Zero is all that you have been reading about. When it arrives, the fun begins. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Did you see where some of us replaced the stock knob to further it's nice looks?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rpveld* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_He's got 104 positive and 2 negative the last month so that isn't to bad I guess.
 On the other hand, I understand that those feedbacks can be faked.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Oh well, I have ordered about 7 items over the last three weeks from eBay and they all came in quick and in good shape, so I hope this one turns out all right to._

 

Don't worry. I have a feeling yours isn't going to be a problem.


----------



## strologu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can tell you for sure, the Zero is all that you have been reading about. When it arrives, the fun begins. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I hope so, but...when it will arrive?? Will I still be able to listen to some music or will i be too old??


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *strologu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hope so, but...when it will arrive?? Will I still be able to listen to some music or will i be too old??
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

Yes, you will be a prune when it arrives.


----------



## strologu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, you will be a prune when it arrives. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 






 i hope not, i've also 3 different spdif output to try!


----------



## sdgserv

Just ordered one yesterday


----------



## sorcer

Thanks everyone for all your help and comments. 

 I think maybe msn rejects gmail out of hand just to, you know, compete with Google 

 Anyway, I'm still thinking I'll jump at this. It does seem almost too good to be true, so one hesitates..

 P.S. I did a "quick reply" from my previous post ("email bounced"), and it puts this post at the top level? I know I'm new to this site, but that don't seem right...


----------



## ricmat

Hi guys!


 i've been looking into the Zero now for some long, but I have to confess I did not have the corage to read the entire 200 pages of this thread, so I'll just ask my issue:


 - Currently my main source of music is my pc. It has both USB and SPDIF optical outputs.

 - I've been looking for a DAC and an amp to connect to my pc, but I really can't spend a lot of money (as I would like to...)

 And then i read about Zero.... so my questions are:

 - How good is Zero as a DAC?
 - How goos is Zero as combo DAC/amp?
 - Will the Zero drive well both my Grado and my high impedance AKG/Beyers?
 - Is the dac good enough to stay with it if I want to upgrade to better amp later?


 Cheers!


----------



## ricmat

... and, for instance how does it compare with Beresford MK6?...


----------



## thundercatslair

Well, I got the Zero in today, it came broken. The front panel was installed incorrectly or damaged during shipping. The coax and optical buttons were loose in the box and so were some screws. It powers on, but when I use optical in I have to turn the zero to max and windows volume to max. When I do this its very very very quiet and sounds terrible. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I think its broken. I e-mailed Lawrence, hopefully we can work something out. I'll probably try the zhaolu 2.5c or this Sweet-2 Mini Tube Amplifier W/ Tube Rectifier & USB DAC - (eBay.ca item 300203830968 end time 09-Mar-08 16:51:35 EDT)
 but I'm not sure if the DAC on that tube amp is any good. Maybe someone has some insights on that?


----------



## sorcer

Ugh. Just what I didn't want to hear. Thanks. I think I'm gonna wait on this purchase. As I look around, I'm seeing other low $$ DAC/Amps. This one seems like a great non-portable, which is what I want, but I'm gettin' scared..


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thundercatslair* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I got the Zero in today, it came broken. The front panel was installed incorrectly or damaged during shipping. The coax and optical buttons were loose in the box and so were some screws. It powers on, but when I use optical in I have to turn the zero to max and windows volume to max. When I do this its very very very quiet and sounds terrible. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I think its broken. I e-mailed Lawrence, hopefully we can work something out. I'll probably try the zhaolu 2.5c or this Sweet-2 Mini Tube Amplifier W/ Tube Rectifier & USB DAC - (eBay.ca item 300203830968 end time 09-Mar-08 16:51:35 EDT)
 but I'm not sure if the DAC on that tube amp is any good. Maybe someone has some insights on that?_

 

Ow man!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sorry to hear about that! Wait for Lawrence to work something out. He may want to send another one too you. I hate when things get destroyed in shipping! Let us know what gets worked out.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sorcer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ugh. Just what I didn't want to hear. Thanks. I think I'm gonna wait on this purchase. As I look around, I'm seeing other low $$ DAC/Amps. This one seems like a great non-portable, which is what I want, but I'm gettin' scared.._

 

So far, out of what is now well over 100 buyers, this is the second one I've heard about killed in shipping. That is still extremely good odds.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ricmat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys!


 i've been looking into the Zero now for some long, but I have to confess I did not have the corage to read the entire 200 pages of this thread, so I'll just ask my issue:


 - Currently my main source of music is my pc. It has both USB and SPDIF optical outputs.

 - I've been looking for a DAC and an amp to connect to my pc, but I really can't spend a lot of money (as I would like to...)

 And then i read about Zero.... so my questions are:

 - How good is Zero as a DAC?
 - How goos is Zero as combo DAC/amp?
 - Will the Zero drive well both my Grado and my high impedance AKG/Beyers?
 - Is the dac good enough to stay with it if I want to upgrade to better amp later?


 Cheers!_

 

The Zero DAC section is very very good.
 The Zero DAC/Amp section is very very good.
 The Zero DAC/Amp will drive any headphone you plug into it.
 The Zero DAC/Amp is the perfect upgrade unit. Buy the Zero, use it's Dual Mono Headphone amp for now. Later, buy a seperate headphone amp, drive it with the Zero's DAC output. You win!


----------



## sorcer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So far, out of what is now well over 100 buyers, this is the second one I've heard about killed in shipping. That is still extremely good odds. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Thanks. I appreciate all the info and work you've put into this thread. It's people like you that make this site so fun. 

 It does seem like if this DAC/Amp sounds as good as you all say, it is THE best deal around, especially for a non-portable. I guess I'm being perhaps too careful.

 Having said that, can you recommend a thread or just a few other DAC/Amps around this price that could be alternatives to the Zero?


----------



## diab0lik

i just got my dac today now i need to source some of the opamps you mentioned


----------



## Ash

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *diab0lik* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i just got my dac today now i need to source some of the opamps you mentioned_

 

Waiting on my DAC. Just curious, did ur order ship this last weekend too?


----------



## javaphones

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ash* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Waiting on my DAC. Just curious, did ur order ship this last weekend too?_

 

When did you guys order yours? I ordered mine on 2/13 and haven't heard much from Lawrence about when it would be shipped.


----------



## BlueS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sorcer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks. I appreciate all the info and work you've put into this thread. It's people like you that make this site so fun. 

 It does seem like if this DAC/Amp sounds as good as you all say, it is THE best deal around, especially for a non-portable. I guess I'm being perhaps too careful.

 Having said that, can you recommend a thread or just a few other DAC/Amps around this price that could be alternatives to the Zero?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yup, but consider the SUPER Pro DAC 707, also. For me, it sounds even better than the DAC part of the Zero. Cost $101 shipped for me - so you're (maybe) left with the money for a good home headphone amp, like the Cute Beyond or the O1.


----------



## bocosb

anyone knows how the zero sound compared with the asus xonar d2? the price is about the same..


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *javaphones* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When did you guys order yours? I ordered mine on 2/13 and haven't heard much from Lawrence about when it would be shipped.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

My guess would be, you are in his next group of 50, due to ship next week. You could email him and check though.


----------



## rpveld

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't worry. I have a feeling yours isn't going to be a problem. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm afraid it's not going to happen this time.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 When checking out on my item yesterday I found out that the seller is no longer on eBay.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 So I asked eBay what to do, and they told me he was suspended by them.
 Now I have to contact PayPal and hope I will get my money back.
 Oh well....


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rpveld* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm afraid it's not going to happen this time.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 When checking out on my item yesterday I found out that the seller is no longer on eBay.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 So I asked eBay what to do, and they told me he was suspended by them.
 Now I have to contact PayPal and hope I will get my money back.
 Oh well...._

 

So much for positive thinking, huh. I hope PayPal will take care of you.
 You could also email Lawrence and see if you can get in on the batch of 50, he says is going out next week. Just a thought.


----------



## magnetiq

i got my opamps, i might have installed one wrong and damaged it because it's causing whichever channel it is in to crackle and pop and a weak/flickering red light

 -_-

 *ordered another 2 from linear, now using one stock and one lt1364 lol

 the music on the 64 side is noticeable better, just a bit, but i think i can notice.


----------



## rpveld

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So much for positive thinking, huh. I hope PayPal will take care of you.
 You could also email Lawrence and see if you can get in on the batch of 50, he says is going out next week. Just a thought. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Just ordered one from Lawrence, let's hope for the best.
 Thanks for your sympathetic responses, much appreciated.


----------



## souperman

I've been eyeing the Zero for quite some time now. I had placed and order and cancelled it since it was going ot take forever for me to get it. IT seems like a lot of people have been getting them, and even though this thread is so huge, there hasn't been very many reviews on the SQ of the headphone amp as opposed to just the DAC. I'm interested in the headphone amp section, so it would be helpful if any of the many members that has the Zero could chime in on this.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *souperman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been eyeing the Zero for quite some time now. I had placed and order and cancelled it since it was going ot take forever for me to get it. IT seems like a lot of people have been getting them, and even though this thread is so huge, there hasn't been very many reviews on the SQ of the headphone amp as opposed to just the DAC. I'm interested in the headphone amp section, so it would be helpful if any of the many members that has the Zero could chime in on this._

 

I found that the headphone amp was much better when you swapped a few op amps to get something you prefer, but for me, it doesn't beat the dac playing in to my slee solo amp. That combo sounds sweet! I think the reason there isn't much comments on the headphone amp is because alot of us have headphone amps we love and now we have dac to back it up!


----------



## souperman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I found that the headphone amp was much better when you swapped a few op amps to get something you prefer, but for me, it doesn't beat the dac playing in to my slee solo amp. That combo sounds sweet! I think the reason there isn't much comments on the headphone amp is because alot of us have headphone amps we love and now we have dac to back it up!_

 

I see, so the primary reason for the Zero is the DAC portion? I mean of course I'm not trying to compare the HP amp section to any expensive major home amps, but knowing how it compares to, say even a pimeta, would be nice. Hoping to hear some impressions from people!

 Edit: I guess just some starting points...

 From swapping opamps, does this amp have good bass punch? I really look for a good kick in the head when the drummer kicks the bass drum in rock music. Are the highs sparkly and well represented, and are the mids forward and liquidy?


----------



## coredump

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thundercatslair* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I got the Zero in today, it came broken._

 

No fair. I ordered mine 5 days before you. It's been over a month now. Tracking says it's in customs. Too bad I'll be out of town next week. I'll be really POed if it get shipped back.


----------



## souperman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coredump* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No fair. I ordered mine 5 days before you. It's been over a month now. Tracking says it's in customs. Too bad I'll be out of town next week. I'll be really POed if it get shipped back._

 

So you envy that his came broken?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Now impressions! Less whining!


----------



## fault151

Like i said, it does sound good when i messed about with the op amps, it was even better. Id be very happy with the dac and head amp if it was my only means of listening. But i feel personally i get the best out of it via my slee solo.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *souperman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been eyeing the Zero for quite some time now. I had placed and order and cancelled it since it was going ot take forever for me to get it. IT seems like a lot of people have been getting them, and even though this thread is so huge, there hasn't been very many reviews on the SQ of the headphone amp as opposed to just the DAC. I'm interested in the headphone amp section, so it would be helpful if any of the many members that has the Zero could chime in on this._

 

Hey Souperman,

 I'll tell you what I know and what has been learned so far. The headphone amp is a dual mono design with a socketed Opamp for each channel. It is independent of the DAC, so it is without noise. It has quality components and resides on a separate board from the DAC section. Many have commented that it is one of the best headphone amps of it's design, without being a discrete amp. There isn't a lot to compare it with, but everyone believes as I do that it is a nice SS headphone amp. It does have plenty of power to drive heavy loads, and it really steps up when you put in your favorite dual Opamps.

 A few users have actually sold off there other amps because of the Zero's headphone amp! While I would not do this, it does give you an idea about it's acceptance and value. The Zero is nice to drive a tube headphone amp with, because you can switch to the Zero's headphone amp for SS, any time you wish. Kind of a "both worlds" concept. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This flexibility has made it very popular.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Souperman,
 The Zero is nice to drive a tube headphone amp with, because you can switch to the Zero's headphone amp for SS, any time you wish. Kind of a "both worlds" concept. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This flexibility has made it very popular. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeh i agree with that!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coredump* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No fair. I ordered mine 5 days before you. It's been over a month now. Tracking says it's in customs. Too bad I'll be out of town next week. I'll be really POed if it get shipped back._

 

Man, I hope not! Can you tell the carrier that you are on vacation for a week and to hold it until you return? Or something like that?


----------



## coredump

I can put a note on the door. I assume it will come by USPS. If it goes in the box they will just hold it for a week or more. If it goes to the door for a signature I got three days.


----------



## souperman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Souperman,

 I'll tell you what I know and what has been learned so far. The headphone amp is a dual mono design with a socketed Opamp for each channel. It is independent of the DAC, so it is without noise. It has quality components and resides on a separate board from the DAC section. Many have commented that it is one of the best headphone amps of it's design, without being a discrete amp. There isn't a lot to compare it with, but everyone believes as I do that it is a nice SS headphone amp. It does have plenty of power to drive heavy loads, and it really steps up when you put in your favorite dual Opamps.

 A few users have actually sold off there other amps because of the Zero's headphone amp! While I would not do this, it does give you an idea about it's acceptance and value. The Zero is nice to drive a tube headphone amp with, because you can switch to the Zero's headphone amp for SS, any time you wish. Kind of a "both worlds" concept. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This flexibility has made it very popular. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I see, thanks for that! I may go ahead and purchase it if the waiting time isn't too long. Can you explain the difference between a discrete amp and the amp in the Zero?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *souperman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see, thanks for that! I may go ahead and purchase it if the waiting time isn't too long. Can you explain the difference between a discrete amp and the amp in the Zero?_

 

The one in the Zero is Opamp driven, while a discrete version would be all solid state instead. Usually much more expensive too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Too much labor involved in making them. There is a ton of information in this thread about what combinations of Opamps work well, so many here can advise you on which Opamps work well with which headphones. Feel free to ask away!


----------



## souperman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The one in the Zero is Opamp driven, while a discrete version would be all solid state instead. Usually much more expensive too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Too much labor involved in making them. There is a ton of information in this thread about what combinations of Opamps work well, so many here can advise you on which Opamps work well with which headphones. Feel free to ask away! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I see, thanks! I'll be driving HD580's, SR60's, and HFI-780's. It seems like the LT1469, and LT1364 are great together. I look for really punchy bass, sparkly highs, and forward mids.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coredump* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can put a note on the door. I assume it will come by USPS. If it goes in the box they will just hold it for a week or more. If it goes to the door for a signature I got three days._

 

You should call your local USPS. I think they have a vacation card you fill out, and they hold everything until you return, boxes and all. It's worth checking into, just in case!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *souperman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see, thanks! I'll be driving HD580's, SR60's, and HFI-780's. It seems like the LT1469, and LT1364 are great together. I look for really punchy bass, sparkly highs, and forward mids._

 

It sounds like you got it nailed! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That's one of my favorite combos for the Senns.


----------



## souperman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It sounds like you got it nailed! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That's one of my favorite combos for the Senns. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Have any ideas with good bass punch?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *souperman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have any ideas with good bass punch?_

 

With the LT1364 in the DAC, and LT1469's in the head amp, it has excellent bass punch, while maintaining the mids and highs where you like them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The OPA627's on a brown dog, in the DAC, with LT1364's in the head amp, will also pack a punch, but from a warmer perspective. This is great for the DAC out, to another amp, and also for the built-in head amp.


----------



## souperman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With the LT1364 in the DAC, and LT1469's in the head amp, it has excellent bass punch, while maintaining the mids and highs where you like them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The OPA627's on a brown dog, in the DAC, with LT1364's in the head amp, will also pack a punch, but from a warmer perspective. This is great for the DAC out, to another amp, and also for the built-in head amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm not into the whole warm thing, so I may like the 1469 better.


----------



## souperman

I have a question. I have a pair of Swans M10 speakers and they take RCA in. I would be able to connect them to the RCA out of the Zero right? The Swan M10 has it's own amp inside. That would be so great. That would make this deal a solid one. I can just switch between my headphones and speakers with just a few clicks of a button.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *souperman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see, thanks! I'll be driving HD580's, SR60's, and HFI-780's. It seems like the LT1469, and LT1364 are great together. I look for really punchy bass, sparkly highs, and forward mids._

 

For the sennheisers, I would probably use LT1364+LT1361, OPA627+LT1361 or OPA627+LME49720(LM4562).

 If you think that the treble is on the border of being to hot with your grados and ultrasones, I wouldn't advice using LT1361 in the amp, as it is very airy, clear with lots of treble. Apart from the raised treble, it's very good with either of my cans.

 For HFI780/GradoSR60, I would probably use LT1364+LT1469 or OPA627+LT1469.

 I was not very impressed with LT1364 in the headamp for some reason. It wasn't really clear to my ears. It's good if you want something easy to listen to, as it's very unfatiguing.

 Then there is the LT1028, which I though was very impressive when I used it. I don't know if it's really safe to use though.


----------



## souperman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For the sennheisers, I would probably use LT1364+LT1361, OPA627+LT1361 or OPA627+LME49720(LM4562).

 If you think that the treble is on the border of being to hot with your grados and ultrasones, I wouldn't advice using LT1361 in the amp, as it is very airy, clear with lots of treble. Apart from the raised treble, it's very good with either of my cans.

 For HFI780/GradoSR60, I would probably use LT1364+LT1469 or OPA627+LT1469.

 I was not very impressed with LT1364 in the headamp for some reason. It wasn't really clear to my ears. It's good if you want something easy to listen to, as it's very unfatiguing.

 Then there is the LT1028, which I though was very impressive when I used it. I don't know if it's really safe to use though._

 

Why isn't it safe?


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *souperman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why isn't it safe?_

 

The LT1028 gets VERY hot, too hot to touch. Someone said this could be a sign of oscillation and that it is not safe (for dac? for amp? for headphones? don't know). I'm no electrician, so I don't know the technicalities. I'm not even sure that it's unsafe, it worked for a week without problems, but someone said it might be unsafe so I removed it.

 I would really like a definite answer by someone who knows these things.


----------



## bocosb

i dont find biglawhk's auction anymore on ebay.. anyone knows what happened?


----------



## rpveld

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bocosb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i dont find biglawhk's auction anymore on ebay.. anyone knows what happened?_

 

The last time I looked (yesterday ) there was only one left.
 When I bought mine,an hour or so before that, there were three, so they are selling fast. I think he's out for the moment.


----------



## bocosb

i emailed him yesterday and talked about ordering a unit today and all seemd to be in order.. well i will send him another email


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *souperman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a question. I have a pair of Swans M10 speakers and they take RCA in. I would be able to connect them to the RCA out of the Zero right? The Swan M10 has it's own amp inside. That would be so great. That would make this deal a solid one. I can just switch between my headphones and speakers with just a few clicks of a button._

 

You've got the right idea here. I have a mini system of sorts, PC optical out to Zero, Zero out to Sonic Super-T amp, to a set of AR bookshelf speakers. It is great! You are right about the switching with one button. This makes it very convenient!!


----------



## sdgserv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bocosb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i dont find biglawhk's auction anymore on ebay.. anyone knows what happened?_

 



ZERO 24/192 DAC D A CONVERTOR , HEAD FI AMP , BRAND NEW - eBay (item 330217844422 end time Mar-14-08 08:03:08 PDT)


----------



## souperman

I bought the last one yesterday. They are back up now.


----------



## sorcer

I just bought one at 11:30 AM today. Fingers crossed for a quick shipment.


----------



## souperman

Does it arrive via USPS?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *souperman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does it arrive via USPS?_

 

Yes, via Hong Kong Post.


----------



## TylerEaves

Well, after being out of the house all day, I finally got home to fire up my brand new Zero. Packing was fine, the unit was well padded, etc, no complaints about the shipping, other than the one month weight.

 My rig:

 Chaintech AV-710 SPDIF, upsampled in winamp to 96/24 (I can't use kernel streaming as I need to be able to multitask, and this minimizes the damage from kmixer...not bitperfect but near enough) > Zero > K701 with ~250 hours on them. 


 So far, I've listened to a few tracks that I'm familiar with...a few track off Zep's Physical Graffiti, and a few off the latest Rush album. Even with no burn-in time, I've noticed some nice improvements over my previous setup (Kenwood HT receiveir)...generally better detail, better soundstage, and more texture. Even though I'm getting a bit more detail the highs are just a touch softened...and that's not a bad thing. I'm going to be out of town most of the next two days, so it's about to get 36 hours or so of pink noise, so we'll see how things are come sunday evening. Even if the sound gets no better than it is now, it was still a great 'bang for the buck' upgrade.


----------



## bocosb

right now i have some problems with my paypal account and lawrence said he accepts Western Union Money Transfer or cash by registered air mail.. can i trust him enough to send money via western union, i dont know how safe it is


----------



## nor_spoon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bocosb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_right now i have some problems with my paypal account and lawrence said he accepts Western Union Money Transfer or cash by registered air mail.. can i trust him enough to send money via western union, i dont know how safe it is_

 

I would say he is a thrustworthy and honest guy. No problems reported so far as I can recall.


----------



## bocosb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sorcer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just bought one at 11:30 AM today. Fingers crossed for a quick shipment._

 

he said that his next stock will arrive in two weeks, i guess that's when yours will be sent also..


----------



## strologu

Finally arrived today in Spain, after a month..just hooked..and it sounds fine!
 I'll wait some days, maybe a week, to post some definitive impressions.
 Just to begin:
 it blows away the Digidesign MBox2, and Trends Audio UD10.1's analog output.
 Just tried the UD10.1 as USB/spdif interface and it works fine, while the DigitalPCLink is clearly affected by a huge amount of jitter.
 Now i'm waiting for some burn in..


----------



## Scanberg

One question for you guys who ordered from Lawrence;
 Did he write a mail telling you that the unit was shipped?

 I ordered mine on the 23'rd of feb, so I guess that I'm in the the current batch.


----------



## Ash

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Scanberg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One question for you guys who ordered from Lawrence;
 Did he write a mail telling you that the unit was shipped?

 I ordered mine on the 23'rd of feb, so I guess that I'm in the the current batch._

 

Yes he does write a confirmation email usually.
 It might have been too late for this batch. U might get ur order in the next batch, which I understand is shipping 'pretty soon'


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TylerEaves* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, after being out of the house all day, I finally got home to fire up my brand new Zero. Packing was fine, the unit was well padded, etc, no complaints about the shipping, other than the one month weight.

 My rig:

 Chaintech AV-710 SPDIF, upsampled in winamp to 96/24 (I can't use kernel streaming as I need to be able to multitask, and this minimizes the damage from kmixer...not bitperfect but near enough) > Zero > K701 with ~250 hours on them. 


 So far, I've listened to a few tracks that I'm familiar with...a few track off Zep's Physical Graffiti, and a few off the latest Rush album. Even with no burn-in time, I've noticed some nice improvements over my previous setup (Kenwood HT receiveir)...generally better detail, better soundstage, and more texture. Even though I'm getting a bit more detail the highs are just a touch softened...and that's not a bad thing. I'm going to be out of town most of the next two days, so it's about to get 36 hours or so of pink noise, so we'll see how things are come sunday evening. Even if the sound gets no better than it is now, it was still a great 'bang for the buck' upgrade._

 

Congratulations! There will be some nice improvements in the Zero during the first 100 hrs. Rush is "YUM" on the Zero for sure!


----------



## rpveld

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So much for positive thinking, huh. I hope PayPal will take care of you.
 You could also email Lawrence and see if you can get in on the batch of 50, he says is going out next week. Just a thought. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Just to finish this story up, I am glad to tell you that SNOW468 did give me my money back, after I opened a complaint with PayPal. 
 So now it's just waiting for the one I ordered from Lawrence.


----------



## souperman

Lawrence told me that the next batch (the batch mine is in) will be around 17th. When that will actually be, I have no idea.


----------



## fl00r

I have been waiting for the ZERO to come since February 12 now and Lawrence ensured me that I am in the next batch. I was on the verge to cancel the order because of the wait but in the end I decided not to (money's already paid anyways..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Meantime I bought a Stella DA100 DAC to keep me busy. Question is: will the ZERO fit into my current setup: CDP >> toslink >> Stella >> RCA >> Darkvoice 336i >> HD650's
 Maybe as a pre-amp?


----------



## souperman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fl00r* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have been waiting for the ZERO to come since March 12 now and Lawrence ensured me that I am in the next batch. I was on the verge to cancel the order because of the wait but in the end I decided not to (money's already paid anyways..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Meantime I bought a Stella DA100 DAC to keep me busy. Question is: will the ZERO fit into my current setup: CDP >> toslink >> Stella >> RCA >> Darkvoice 336i >> HD650's
 Maybe as a pre-amp?_

 

March 12? Did you order in the future?


----------



## fl00r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *souperman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_March 12? Did you order in the future?_

 

LOL

 That is February 12, waiting can play hideous games on the brain


----------



## bocosb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fl00r* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have been waiting for the ZERO to come since February 12 now and Lawrence ensured me that I am in the next batch. I was on the verge to cancel the order because of the wait but in the end I decided not to (money's already paid anyways..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Meantime I bought a Stella DA100 DAC to keep me busy. Question is: will the ZERO fit into my current setup: CDP >> toslink >> Stella >> RCA >> Darkvoice 336i >> HD650's
 Maybe as a pre-amp?_

 

You have a Stello DA100 and want the Zero?!? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .. what's the point??
 I cant see Zero reaching Stello da100 performance, and you have a good amp so it really has no sense, except curiosity about Zero sound


----------



## fl00r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bocosb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...
 I cant see Zero reaching Stello da100 performance, and you have a good amp so it really has no sense, except curiosity about Zero sound_

 

The whole essence of this addition / madness in one sentence.....

 Curiosity, and a surplus of money


----------



## bocosb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fl00r* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The whole essence of this addition / madness in one sentence.....

 Curiosity, and a surplus of money 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

better try buying high quality interconect cables for your rig and recable your headphones - i guess the improvment will be huge compared to adding the Zero.. and you will also fix the "surplus of money" problem


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bocosb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You have a Stello DA100 and want the Zero?!? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .. what's the point??
 I cant see Zero reaching Stello da100 performance, and you have a good amp so it really has no sense, except curiosity about Zero sound_

 

The point would be; If there is no difference between the two units when used in his rig, sell the Stello and do other things. Also, don't be too quick to judge the Zero's performance. We have had many other users report it being as good if not better than some units costing 2-3-4 times the money.


----------



## souperman

So this is how my setup will be run. I will have my Zero connected optically to my Realtek optical output on my computer. I'm going to connect my Swans M10 RCA input to the Zero's RCA outputs. That way I can switch between my HFI780's and the Swans M10. 

 ...How would I switch between them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




? Sorry if I missed any posts about it, but I can't really figure it out just from the posts.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *souperman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So this is how my setup will be run. I will have my Zero connected optically to my Realtek optical output on my computer. I'm going to connect my Swans M10 RCA input to the Zero's RCA outputs. That way I can switch between my HFI780's and the Swans M10. 

 ...How would I switch between them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





? Sorry if I missed any posts about it, but I can't really figure it out just from the posts._

 

There's a button on the front panel, right next to the volume knob, labeled Phones and Preamp. With phones plugged in, the button will switch you between volume controlled headphones amp and DAC line level out. With no phones plugged in, it will switch you between volume controlled DAC output and DAC line level output. Pretty cool, huh.


----------



## souperman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There's a button on the front panel, right next to the volume knob, labeled Phones and Preamp. With phones plugged in, the button will switch you between volume controlled headphones amp and DAC line level out. With no phones plugged in, it will switch you between volume controlled DAC output and DAC line level output. Pretty cool, huh. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

So basically I just have to select the optical button. Then I switch between my speakers and headphones by pressing the Phones/Preamp button? That's great. This makes me happy with the purchase even more.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *souperman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So basically I just have to select the optical button. Then I switch between my speakers and headphones by pressing the Phones/Preamp button? That's great. This makes me happy with the purchase even more._

 

Yep! Simple and nice. The switching action is protected, so you won't have loud bangs and such when switching between them.


----------



## souperman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep! Simple and nice. The switching action is protected, so you won't have loud bangs and such when switching between them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Sounds good. Only two obstacles left. The waiting time, and hoping it doesn't arrive damaged.


----------



## Penchum

Last night, after trying to sleep, I warmed up the soldering iron and completed the "resistor replacement mod", to back down the brightness of the LED's on both of my Zero's. It was simple and straight forward. My oldest Zero, with the dedicated 110 transformer, backed the brightness down about 2/3's of what it was, the newer Zero with the world voltage selectable transformer, the brightness is down about 1/2. I didn't care if the brightness levels don't match, they are across the room from each other. I was just glad to not have the whole room blasted by blue LED light. Now I can see my tube amps glowing better. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I know some folks like the super bright blue LEDs, and that is cool. I guess I'm more old school, where "indicator" lights were just bright enough for you to see they were lit. A couple of my tube amps have super bright blue LED's and I keep looking at them and reaching for my soldering iron. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Not while they are under warranty. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The brightest one is the LD MKII. It has this bright blue LED that is lensed and it will project a bright blue circle on the wall opposite where it sits. The circle is about 4 foot in diameter and very bright! I have to admit, I've stuck black tape over it several times. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Pretty silly huh. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If I could find replacement LEDs that were way less bright, I'd take the time to swap them out. I just can't seem to find any. Ideas anyone?
 Thanks!


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Last night, after trying to sleep, I warmed up the soldering iron and completed the "resistor replacement mod", ..._

 

Finally 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 Now I can see my tube amps glowing better. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 

Nice one!


----------



## TylerEaves

The more time I put on my Zero, the more impressed I am. Right now I have about 4 hours actual listening, and about 30 hours of pink noise burn in on the unit. Everything just sounds so natural and musical. I've also found that it makes poorly recorded music (Think reggae, early blues recordings, etc), much more listenable on my K701s. Hard to put my finger on why, but basically I find myself LISTENING, rather than thinking 'oh, this is hissy/flat sounding, etc. 

 I have only two complaints on the unit, both quite minor.

 1 - I wish the 3 smaller buttons (input select, headphone switch) extended a bit beyond the face of the unit. This would make them easier to activate. This is more noticeable because of the great feel and 'thunk' of the power switch.

 2 - The volume knob rotates a bit too easily for my tastes...a slight slip of the finger can turn the volume up quite a bit. A bit of drag here would be nice. Just enough to make the motion feel more solid.


----------



## souperman

Another question...is the headphone jack a 1/4th or 1/8th?


----------



## TylerEaves

1/4"


----------



## souperman

Ok great.


----------



## kwekeugene

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TylerEaves* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The more time I put on my Zero, the more impressed I am. Right now I have about 4 hours actual listening, and about 30 hours of pink noise burn in on the unit. Everything just sounds so natural and musical. I've also found that it makes poorly recorded music (Think reggae, early blues recordings, etc), much more listenable on my K701s. Hard to put my finger on why, but basically I find myself LISTENING, rather than thinking 'oh, this is hissy/flat sounding, etc. 

 I have only two complaints on the unit, both quite minor.

 1 - I wish the 3 smaller buttons (input select, headphone switch) extended a bit beyond the face of the unit. This would make them easier to activate. This is more noticeable because of the great feel and 'thunk' of the power switch.

 2 - The volume knob rotates a bit too easily for my tastes...a slight slip of the finger can turn the volume up quite a bit. A bit of drag here would be nice. Just enough to make the motion feel more solid._

 

Sounds awesome!

 I have a Zero on the way now, how does the the Zero perform with the SR225? My setup would be "MacBook > Zero > SR225"


----------



## TylerEaves

I honestly don't know yet. I'm bring the 225s home from work tonight and give it a listen.


----------



## mADmAN

hey guys...just thought id share my ZERO mods...

 i have no idea about electronics... so i got someone to do it for me.... heres a list of mods that he did (accordingto him). the guy has a modded Zhaolu so hes very familiar with the internals as the Zero share basically the same internals as a Zhaolu.

 1. Diode Bypass (reduce noise)
 2. Stability and Noise killing mod for digital section (PS bypass replaced with Silver Mica)
 3. Ground loop breaker mod (better caps)
 4. More capacitance for the main analog stage, from 4400uF to 6600uF
 5. More capacitance for the digital stage with Silmic II parallel, from 2000uF to 2330uF and bypass.
 6. Cap replacement on analog output stage
 7. Film cap replacement with german Wimas near the clock, DAC and supply lines.

 personally...i cant tell the difference...coz i never did an AB test between modded vs stock... though i know ill be able to tell the difference if i do an AB. i dont have pix of the mod though...will add them when i have a chance to take pix (aka when i stop being lazy).

 current setup is ESI Maya44 Coaxial -> Canare 75ohm Coaxial cable (forgot model) + Neutrik RCA -> Zero -> Beyer DT990 '05.

 opamp is stock at the DAC level but i have OPA627 coming in soon and will put that into the DAC.

 on stock opamps...i love it...the soundstage is MUCH wider than the setup in my sig. plus the mids actually jumped out at me. another thing i like is that the highs on the DT990 is tamed even at stock, unmodded condition.

 now i have 2*OPA2107 in the headamp section. mids has become recessed again...but this is due to the fact that the opamps made the sound very airy... still enjoyable though.. and has a slightly wider soundstage. gonna put back the stock opamps when i actually get off my backside....i want them mids as i listen mostly to metal.

 i also have another OPA627 coming in later on... so final setup would probably be 2107 in DAC and 627s in headamp. has anyone tried this yet? how does it sound???


----------



## sadhill

Hi,

 New to this forum... (but having followed it for months)

 Just got an email from Lawrence for an order placed on the 17th february : Will be shipped this week (It took no more than 12 hours to get an answer from him)

 (it was already supposed to ship a week ago 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 Might reassure everybody in the same expecting position...


----------



## pincellone

Well, although the Zero may sound similar to the Zhaolu, they are quite different (the Zero wins...). Only the enclosure looks pretty similar.

 I hope the person who modded for you was a friend and you didn't pay him that much.

 After so many changes, you kept the stock opamps. I guess a simple opamp swap would have been enough
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I'm sure you will tell the difference as soon as you get the OPA627s and I hope they will be OPA627BP as these are the absolutely the best of the 627 series and became quite rare now. 

 Opamps of the other 627 DIP series (AP) are far inferior in terms of audio quality, although it's much easier to find them. Don't be mistaken by the fact that they are also OPA627s, they are definitely lower quality. 

 Please do post pictures as I'm curious to see how these mods have been performed.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mADmAN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey guys...just thought id share my ZERO mods...

 i have no idea about electronics... so i got someone to do it for me.... heres a list of mods that he did (accordingto him). the guy has a modded Zhaolu so hes very familiar with the internals as the Zero share basically the same internals as a Zhaolu.

 1. Diode Bypass (reduce noise)
 2. Stability and Noise killing mod for digital section (PS bypass replaced with Silver Mica)
 3. Ground loop breaker mod (better caps)
 4. More capacitance for the main analog stage, from 4400uF to 6600uF
 5. More capacitance for the digital stage with Silmic II parallel, from 2000uF to 2330uF and bypass.
 6. Cap replacement on analog output stage
 7. Film cap replacement with german Wimas near the clock, DAC and supply lines.

 personally...i cant tell the difference...coz i never did an AB test between modded vs stock... though i know ill be able to tell the difference if i do an AB. i dont have pix of the mod though...will add them when i have a chance to take pix (aka when i stop being lazy).

 current setup is ESI Maya44 Coaxial -> Canare 75ohm Coaxial cable (forgot model) + Neutrik RCA -> Zero -> Beyer DT990 '05.

 opamp is stock at the DAC level but i have OPA627 coming in soon and will put that into the DAC.

 on stock opamps...i love it...the soundstage is MUCH wider than the setup in my sig. plus the mids actually jumped out at me. another thing i like is that the highs on the DT990 is tamed even at stock, unmodded condition.

 now i have 2*OPA2107 in the headamp section. mids has become recessed again...but this is due to the fact that the opamps made the sound very airy... still enjoyable though.. and has a slightly wider soundstage. gonna put back the stock opamps when i actually get off my backside....i want them mids as i listen mostly to metal.

 i also have another OPA627 coming in later on... so final setup would probably be 2107 in DAC and 627s in headamp. has anyone tried this yet? how does it sound???_


----------



## Spirit2

Is it easy to change the DAC and amp chip?


----------



## souperman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Spirit2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it easy to change the DAC and amp chip?_

 

Yes. You pull it out and plug it in.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TylerEaves* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The more time I put on my Zero, the more impressed I am. Right now I have about 4 hours actual listening, and about 30 hours of pink noise burn in on the unit. Everything just sounds so natural and musical. I've also found that it makes poorly recorded music (Think reggae, early blues recordings, etc), much more listenable on my K701s. Hard to put my finger on why, but basically I find myself LISTENING, rather than thinking 'oh, this is hissy/flat sounding, etc. 

 I have only two complaints on the unit, both quite minor.

 1 - I wish the 3 smaller buttons (input select, headphone switch) extended a bit beyond the face of the unit. This would make them easier to activate. This is more noticeable because of the great feel and 'thunk' of the power switch.

 2 - The volume knob rotates a bit too easily for my tastes...a slight slip of the finger can turn the volume up quite a bit. A bit of drag here would be nice. Just enough to make the motion feel more solid._

 

Hi TylerEaves,
 The board that has micro-switches for those three buttons, is a stubborn little Bast_rd. It is the one I had to remove and change the resisters on. When re-attaching it to the backside of the faceplate, it did not want to screw up tight to the faceplate. This caused the buttons on the front, to be less extended. It took three tries before I finally got it screwed on tight and the buttons work better. You might take a look at this to make them better.

 Also, replacing the existing volume knob with a heavy aftermarket knob (brass), makes it smoother and less easy to turn quickly. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Have a good one!


----------



## souperman

Anyone have pictures of the back of the unit?


----------



## kwekeugene

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TylerEaves* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I honestly don't know yet. I'm bring the 225s home from work tonight and give it a listen._

 

Thanks Tyler, I really appreciate it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 No rush, take your time...


----------



## sorcer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sadhill* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,

 New to this forum... (but having followed it for months)

 Just got an email from Lawrence for an order placed on the 17th february : Will be shipped this week (It took no more than 12 hours to get an answer from him)

 (it was already supposed to ship a week ago 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 Might reassure everybody in the same expecting position... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I ordered mine last Friday (3/7). I sent Lawrence an email through eBay, and he answered quickly:


> "Highly probably next week and I'll let you know by email"


That sounds promising. 

 P.S. Ordered Sennheiser HD-650s Yesterday from Amazon for $309. Yikes!

 P.P.S. Anyone have 650 time on the Zero?


----------



## Spirit2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *souperman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes. You pull it out and plug it in._

 

Thanks for your help. Do I need to get one opamp for the DAC and two for the headphone amp? What opams is recommended for beyerdynamic? I have the DT770 PRO 80 ohm.


----------



## Seba

I have now received e-mails from Lawrence finally.

 He suggested that I would pay half of the price for new OPA627's and DY2000 metal (48$ total). I'm a bit sceptic because I don't believe that is right.

 So, word of advice: Do NOT buy op-amps from Lawrence unless you really have to. If they will broke, you'll have to pay for the replacements.


----------



## Andreas_D

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kwekeugene* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sounds awesome!

 I have a Zero on the way now, how does the the Zero perform with the SR225? My setup would be "MacBook > Zero > SR225"_

 


 I'm used to listen to SR225 on Zero with two op amp combos:
 - 1469 DAC and 2 x 1361 AMP
 - 1364 DAC and 2 x 1361 AMP

 I like them very much on 225, the first combo has a warmer sound than the second, but I think I like the second more. 1361 in dac gives you a tad more detail and instrument separation, a little bit wider stage and seems to be brighter due to the less extended low end frequencies.

 I can't tell anything about the stock combination, because I was very impatient to try different op amps(Penchum fault
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) and I'm very proud of these two, greater SQ than I expected before ordering Zero.


----------



## fl00r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sorcer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered mine last Friday (3/7). I sent Lawrence an email through eBay, and he answered quickly:



			"Highly probably next week and I'll let you know by email"
		
Click to expand...

That sounds promising._

 

Don't want to spoil your good mood Sorcer, but this was exactly the same he wrote to me (a couple of weeks back).

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/3896217-post1990.html


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seba* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have now received e-mails from Lawrence finally.

 He suggested that I would pay half of the price for new OPA627's and DY2000 metal (48$ total). I'm a bit sceptic because I don't believe that is right.

 So, word of advice: Do NOT buy op-amps from Lawrence unless you really have to. If they will broke, you'll have to pay for the replacements._

 

If I'm reading you right, that is a big price drop compared to what it was just 2 months ago. The other thing is he sells the BP version, which is the best.
 I'd have to find the email, but I'm pretty sure a pair of OPA627's on an adapter was $67 back then.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sorcer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered mine last Friday (3/7). I sent Lawrence an email through eBay, and he answered quickly:



			"Highly probably next week and I'll let you know by email"
		
Click to expand...

That sounds promising. 

 P.S. Ordered Sennheiser HD-650s Yesterday from Amazon for $309. Yikes!

 P.P.S. Anyone have 650 time on the Zero?_

 

That's a great price you got on the 650's! There a quite a few using them with the Zero, or with the Zero to another amp. I've got almost all my hours on the Zero with the HD-650. LOVE IT!


----------



## Seba

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I'm reading you right, that is a big price drop compared to what it was just 2 months ago. The other thing is he sells the BP version, which is the best.
 I'd have to find the email, but I'm pretty sure a pair of OPA627's on an adapter was $67 back then._

 

No, 48$ isn't the normal price. Lawrence offered me new set for half the price because of the broken op-amps. To be honest, I don't care for the DY2000 at all. The short moment I listened to it, it sounded too smooth for my MKIV SE. I like my recent op-amps very much.

 Today I swapped LT1469's to Zero's headamp and boy I'm having fun. I have listened the whole evening with Zero and kept Little Dot turned off.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seba* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, 48$ isn't the normal price. Lawrence offered me new set for half the price because of the broken op-amps. To be honest, I don't care for the DY2000 at all. The short moment I listened to it, it sounded too smooth for my MKIV SE. I like my recent op-amps very much.

 Today I swapped LT1469's to Zero's headamp and boy I'm having fun. I have listened the whole evening with Zero and kept Little Dot turned off._

 

It does make a nice combo, for sure. Do you like the DAC output though? That should be where this combo excels too.


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seba* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Today I swapped LT1469's to Zero's headamp and boy I'm having fun. I have listened the whole evening with Zero and kept Little Dot turned off._

 

Up to now I have used the stock opamps, but today I switched to DAC=OPA627 and AMP=LT1469.
 Hmmm... I tried it for hours, but didn't like the bass with the HD-650.

 Then I switched to AMP=LT1361. What a great combination and I have to do so much burn-in hours...


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Up to now I have used the stock opamps, but today I switched to DAC=OPA627 and AMP=LT1469.
 Hmmm... I tried it for hours, but didn't like the bass with the HD-650.

 Then I switched to AMP=LT1361. What a great combination and I have to do so much burn-in hours... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

That is what happened to me the first time. You may find they improve with some extra hours on them. It seems like I remember the bass tightening up some and becoming more detailed. Maybe 40-60 hours in? Something like that.
 Someone else has mentioned this too, in the past.


----------



## souperman

Nobody can post a quick picture of the back of the Zero for me?


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That is what happened to me the first time. You may find they improve with some extra hours on them. It seems like I remember the bass tightening up some and becoming more detailed. Maybe 40-60 hours in? Something like that._

 

I stay with the LT1361 for now.

 I think I will create a burn-in device... a microcontroller, a DAC and two clones of Zero's amp board to burn-in 4 opamps at a time. A pluggable load of 600 Ohm will simulate the HD-650.


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *souperman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nobody can post a quick picture of the back of the Zero for me?_

 

stolen from iceppo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 :


----------



## souperman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_stolen from iceppo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 : 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Haha thanks. None of the pics works on Lawrence's listing on ebay.


----------



## mADmAN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, although the Zero may sound similar to the Zhaolu, they are quite different (the Zero wins...). Only the enclosure looks pretty similar.

 I hope the person who modded for you was a friend and you didn't pay him that much.

 After so many changes, you kept the stock opamps. I guess a simple opamp swap would have been enough
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I'm sure you will tell the difference as soon as you get the OPA627s and I hope they will be OPA627BP as these are the absolutely the best of the 627 series and became quite rare now. 

 Opamps of the other 627 DIP series (AP) are far inferior in terms of audio quality, although it's much easier to find them. Don't be mistaken by the fact that they are also OPA627s, they are definitely lower quality. 

 Please do post pictures as I'm curious to see how these mods have been performed._

 

yeah the dude is a friend..and i didnt have to pay much...mostly cost for parts.

 yeah i know a simple opamp change would makes worlds difference but i just wanted to know what kinda difference itll make with these kinda mods vs stock (which ive yet been able to unless i do an AB i guess). anyway...the 627 arrived and they are the AP 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 like u said, easier to find and even then the guy who sold it to me had to source it from outside the country.

 will try to post up pix when i can..dont have muh camera with me right now... most of the mods are done on the DAC section though and the headamp section was left mainly alone. more could have been done but due to shortage of time (the guy was leaving for studies in australia) and lack of parts...he did all that could have been done.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *souperman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Haha thanks. None of the pics works on Lawrence's listing on ebay._

 

if u want more pix i took quite a few of my unit before the mod and posted them HERE


----------



## pincellone

OK, thanks. Keep us posted...

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mADmAN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yeah the dude is a friend..and i didnt have to pay much...mostly cost for parts.

 yeah i know a simple opamp change would makes worlds difference but i just wanted to know what kinda difference itll make with these kinda mods vs stock (which ive yet been able to unless i do an AB i guess). anyway...the 627 arrived and they are the AP 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 like u said, easier to find and even then the guy who sold it to me had to source it from outside the country.

 will try to post up pix when i can..dont have muh camera with me right now... most of the mods are done on the DAC section though and the headamp section was left mainly alone. more could have been done but due to shortage of time (the guy was leaving for studies in australia) and lack of parts...he did all that could have been done.



 if u want more pix i took quite a few of my unit before the mod and posted them HERE_


----------



## Fremen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Up to now I have used the stock opamps, but today I switched to DAC=OPA627 and AMP=LT1469.
 Hmmm... I tried it for hours, but didn't like the bass with the HD-650.

 Then I switched to AMP=LT1361. What a great combination and I have to do so much burn-in hours... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Did you try the OPA627s with 2xLM4562 in the AMP ?
 It's the combo I'm using for 2 weeks now and I enjoy it a lot.


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fremen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you try the OPA627s with 2xLM4562 in the AMP ?
 It's the combo I'm using for 2 weeks now and I enjoy it a lot.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks for the hint... I'll try it after burn-in.
 Are there other opamp samples from National to try?


----------



## TylerEaves

Anyone have recommendations for drop-in OPAMPS for use with a K701? For now, I'm only interested in stuff I can install directly, don't feel like messing with an adaptor. (Besides, 627s are EXPENSIVE).


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fremen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you try the OPA627s with 2xLM4562 in the AMP ?_

 

Found two LME49720 at work.
 They are from National's new high performance audio product line and they are the successor/substitute to LM4562.

 Found also two AD825, an OPA2134 and an OPA2604.


----------



## pincellone

For those who are interested in getting some of the last OPA627BP available, I think this link might be useful

2 OPA627 BP opamps on a dual to single adapter - eBay (item 290211527888 end time Mar-13-08 13:47:13 PDT)

 They are being sold on adapter already. Gosh!, they became quite expensive though...


----------



## fl00r

Don't know much about these OP AMP's but I found some here.

 Is this the same OPA you are talking about?


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For those who are interested in getting some of the last OPA627BP available, I think this link might be useful_

 

Pfff.... $120 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 On diykits: OPA 627 BP $ 11.- Ask Eddie Wuh if they are in stock.


----------



## pincellone

To fl00r: Yes, they are the same (BP type). I know the AP are still very easy to find, but BP are far better and hard to find. Fortunately I don't need any. I got mine and keeping them tight...


----------



## pincellone

Well, not that much, I guess it's about $90 for a couple including the adapter. Expensive but still not overexaggerated, considering the current availability. If Eddie still has them in stock, I don't think they will be that cheap for long...

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pfff.... $120 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 On diykits: OPA 627 BP $ 11.- Ask Eddie Wuh if they are in stock._


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_..., but BP are far better and hard to find._

 

Found two sellers on eb*y.com... 46 in stock for $29 a pair.


----------



## pincellone

Probably AU or AP, at least most of them...

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Found two sellers on eb*y.com... 46 in stock for $29 a pair._


----------



## souperman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Probably AU or AP, at least most of them..._

 

Err...what do you mean by that? Almost half of the listings on US ebay listings are BP.


----------



## pincellone

I was only trying to help... I don't know if we see the same thing. It doesn't seem so full of BPs to me, even if I saw a couple of BP listings...

opa627, Industrial Electrical Test, Business Industrial items on eBay.com

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *souperman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Err...what do you mean by that? Almost half of the listings on US ebay listings are BP._


----------



## souperman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was only trying to help... I don't know if we see the same thing. It doesn't seem so full of BPs to me, even if I saw a couple of BP listings...

opa627, Industrial Electrical Test, Business Industrial items on eBay.com_

 

Oh wow, I realized it's because I was searching for BP's. I guess that's how you should search anyways if you want the BP's right 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Henmyr

A month ago diykits didn't have BP in stock, but they had AP for $8 if IIRC. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To fl00r: Yes, they are the same (BP type). I know the AP are still very easy to find, but BP are far better and hard to find. Fortunately I don't need any. I got mine and keeping them tight..._

 

How do you know that they are inferior??? You are the first one in this thread to make those claims. From everything I've read, BP only had better DC specs (IIRC) and this was not supposed to affect sound quality.

 But you seem very sure of it. I would be very happy if you could give me a link or something where it is stated that BP is FAR better (for audio). I will also believe you if you tell me that you have personally tried both and found that BP was superior because:...(please give me impressions of both).


----------



## edguetzow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Opamps of the other 627 DIP series (AP) are far inferior in terms of audio quality, although it's much easier to find them. Don't be mistaken by the fact that they are also OPA627s, they are definitely lower quality._

 

I thought that the differences were that the AU is SMT 8-pin, the AM is to-99-8, and that the AP and BP were both 8-pin DIP. I remember seeing a post that the BP had better specs but not much else.

 But inferior??


----------



## souperman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A month ago diykits didn't have BP in stock, but they had AP for $8 if IIRC. 



 How do you know that they are inferior??? You are the first one in this thread to make those claims. From everything I've read, BP only had better DC specs (IIRC) and this was not supposed to affect sound quality.

 But you seem very sure of it. I would be very happy if you could give me a link or something where it is stated that BP is FAR better (for audio). I will also believe you if you tell me that you have personally tried both and found that BP was superior because:...(please give me impressions of both)._

 

Not a good source, but everybody selling BP's state that it is much better. Of course it might just be a sales tactic, but go in the DIY forum. I'm sure there is a topic on that.


----------



## Penchum

I don't remember how far back, but the word on the street was the AP was less dynamic compared to the BP. That is what convinced me to buy my first set of BP. I just bought a second set, for Zero #2. I am convinced that when pulling DAC duties only, the OPA627BP is the best, with my equipment. YMMV.

 With one of the better LT's in the headamp, the sound for headphones is way better than tolerable, so I can't complain.


----------



## Ash

I am worried about my ZERO.
 Had reached the US on 03/03. No further information.
 How much time does it take to clear the customs?
 I hope it hasnt gotten lost...


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ash* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am worried about my ZERO.
 Had reached the US on 03/03. No further information.
 How much time does it take to clear the customs?
 I hope it hasnt gotten lost..._

 

That does seem like a long time...have you tried your tracking number in the USPS system? See if it gives you anything.


----------



## Ash

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That does seem like a long time...have you tried your tracking number in the USPS system? See if it gives you anything._

 

That worked actually... I am surprised!

 "Status: Inbound Out of Customs

 Your item cleared United States Customs at 8:58 AM on March 7, 2008. Information, if available, is updated every evening. Please check again later."

 I guess it should be here soon then?


----------



## edguetzow

I think you will probably get it in the next day or so. USPS is very bad about updating their site information for tracking purposes. My Zero's tracking information was never updated even after it was delivered!

 I just received my MylarOne X3i from Singapore. The tracking info was not updated since Feb 26 until March 7 when it showed that a delivery attempt was made (I was out of town!). Got it today.

 Patience, lots of fun to come!


----------



## fl00r

What do you think, should I order some OP AMPs prior to receive the ZERO?
 In other words, is it (absolutely) necessary to replace the stock OP AMPs to get the most out of it?

 Given the fact that I will use the ZERO together with HD650 and K701 what will be the recommended OP AMP combination?

 Thanks,

 Ben


----------



## pincellone

I don't have any link at hand, although I'm sure you can google this information quite easily.

 I'm saying that OPA627BP beats OPA627AP hands down as I did an A/B comparison myself, with several samples of both.

 Also, the fact that AP is quite easy to find compared to BP should prove my point.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A month ago diykits didn't have BP in stock, but they had AP for $8 if IIRC. 



 How do you know that they are inferior??? You are the first one in this thread to make those claims. From everything I've read, BP only had better DC specs (IIRC) and this was not supposed to affect sound quality.

 But you seem very sure of it. I would be very happy if you could give me a link or something where it is stated that BP is FAR better (for audio). I will also believe you if you tell me that you have personally tried both and found that BP was superior because:...(please give me impressions of both)._


----------



## pincellone

If you like Intersil op amps you may also want to try HA-5102

http://www.intersil.com/data/fn/fn2925.pdf

 Specs look interesting and it's unity gain stable. I didn't have any chance to grab a few of them (yet)


----------



## sdgserv

Rec. an email..looks like it has shipped. I actually wrote the Zero off.
 Ha! there is a God


----------



## Andreas_D

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fl00r* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What do you think, should I order some OP AMPs prior to receive the ZERO?
 In other words, is it (absolutely) necessary to replace the stock OP AMPs to get the most out of it?

 Given the fact that I will use the ZERO together with HD650 and K701 what will be the recommended OP AMP combination?

 Thanks,

 Ben_

 

I'm afraid you need some serious amplification to make you k701 shine, it's known they are power hugry. Even my k601 are improved with a better amp, so k701 will definitly need another amp, Heedcan Amp at least.


----------



## fl00r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Andreas_D* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm afraid you need some serious amplification to make you k701 shine, it's known they are power hugry. Even my k601 are improved with a better amp, so k701 will definitly need another amp, Heedcan Amp at least._

 

Thank you Andreas.
 My current setup is in my sig don't know yet how the K701's will perform with the Darvoice + Stello combo because I broke my K701's just when the DV arrived. Hope to have them back tomorrow. Anyway, the HD650 sounds great on it! I am curious how these phones are on the ZERO. I will let you know as soon as the ZERO arrives.

 Thanks,

 Ben


----------



## fl00r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, not that much, I guess it's about $90 for a couple including the adapter. Expensive but still not overexaggerated, considering the current availability. If Eddie still has them in stock, I don't think they will be that cheap for long..._

 

Just checked his site and the OPA 627 BP are still listed for $11. A tremendous difference compared to the $90 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I sent him an email for the availability.....

 [edit] Got an email back from him (after 2 minutes!): 2 OPA627BP's + an adaptor + shipping = $29,50 [/edit]


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fl00r* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What do you think, should I order some OP AMPs prior to receive the ZERO?
 In other words, is it (absolutely) necessary to replace the stock OP AMPs to get the most out of it?

 Given the fact that I will use the ZERO together with HD650 and K701 what will be the recommended OP AMP combination?

 Thanks,

 Ben_

 

Hi Ben,

 It wouldn't hurt to have some coming. I for one, have encouraged as many as I could to burn-in the Zero with the stock Opamps for the first 100hrs. This gives you an excellent bass line for comparison, and it determines if you like the default sound or not. For my ears, some changes will further the Zero's impact on your system. For many other ears, the defaults were more than enough. See ya!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fl00r* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just checked his site and the OPA 627 BP are still listed for $11. A tremendous difference compared to the $90 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I sent him an email for the availability.....

 [edit] Got an email back from him (after 2 minutes!): 2 OPA627BP's + an adaptor + shipping = $29,50 [/edit]_

 

That's a very good deal, IMHO. With HD-650, I like the OPA627's in the DAC for it's DAC output and with LT1469 or LT1364 in headamp, the headphone amp output is great for them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The K701's will require a different Opamp signature to sound decent, but I don't know what that would be. Others have stated that the Zero amp has plenty to drive them, so I just don't know what to think about that.


----------



## fl00r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's a very good deal, IMHO. With HD-650, I like the OPA627's in the DAC for it's DAC output and with LT1469 or LT1364 in headamp, the headphone amp output is great for them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The K701's will require a different Opamp signature to sound decent, but I don't know what that would be. Others have stated that the Zero amp has plenty to drive them, so I just don't know what to think about that.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

As soon as the ZERO arrives I will go in to testing mode Dave 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I will keep you posted!

 Thanks,

 Ben


----------



## magnetiq

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fl00r* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just checked his site and the OPA 627 BP are still listed for $11. A tremendous difference compared to the $90 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I sent him an email for the availability.....

 [edit] Got an email back from him (after 2 minutes!): 2 OPA627BP's + an adaptor + shipping = $29,50 [/edit]_

 

That is a _massive_ saving. I am e-mailing him too, thanks man.


----------



## fl00r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magnetiq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That is a massive saving. I am e-mailing him too, thanks man._

 

Saving $60, not bad for a windy afternoon


----------



## magnetiq

"Hi!
 627BP 2pc $11x2=$22 USD
 single to dual socket $2.5 USD
 $5 USD by registered air mail.
 Total $29.5 USD for that."

 RESULT!!! I bought instantly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 haha


----------



## fl00r

This might be a silly question but keep in mind that I am an op amp noob:
 I have some NE5534P op amps I bought for my Supermini V3. Are these usable in the ZERO, or in general: can I roll _any_ op amp in the ZERO?


----------



## souperman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fl00r* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This might be a silly question but keep in mind that I am an op amp noob:
 I have some NE5534P op amps I bought for my Supermini V3. Are these usable in the ZERO, or in general: can I roll any op amp in the ZERO?_

 

You can roll ANY opamp. Whether it will ruin anything is up to the specs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Also, the NE5534 are horrible opamps. No one should be using these in any of their amps.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *souperman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can roll ANY opamp. Whether it will ruin anything is up to the specs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Also, the NE5534 are horrible opamps. No one should be using these in any of their amps._

 

Let me add to this a little. You can run any "Dual" Opamp or "Single" Opamp on an adapter as a pair, if they are unity gain stable. The data sheet on each Opamp usually will tell you if they are single or dual and if they are unity gain stable. Usually you have to go to the manufacturer's website and look up the Opamp and then read the data sheet.


----------



## fl00r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *souperman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can roll ANY opamp. Whether it will ruin anything is up to the specs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Also, the NE5534 are horrible opamps. No one should be using these in any of their amps._

 

...Did I mentioned me being a noob....


----------



## davve

I received my new board today! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now Its running flawless again!


----------



## fl00r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I received my new board today! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now Its running flawless again!_

 

That's great davve!

 I had my shipping notification last Wednesday so the ZERO is on it's way.

 Enjoy!


----------



## souperman

Has anyone tried running the AD746 in the headphone amp? It seems like it would do very well.


----------



## pincellone

Don't use the AD746, it is not unity gain stable. But you could try AD712 and let us know how it goes...

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *souperman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone tried running the AD746 in the headphone amp? It seems like it would do very well._


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I received my new board today! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now Its running flawless again!_

 

Excellent! Way to go!


----------



## classicalguy

What is the cheapest way to buy these in the US?


----------



## fl00r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *classicalguy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What is the cheapest way to buy these in the US?_

 

Just wait until it shows up in the FS forum?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *classicalguy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What is the cheapest way to buy these in the US?_

 

Actually, the only safe/trusted way for a new one, is to buy it from Lawrence on eBay, or email him directly and do a PayPal purchase. This is what most of us have done.


----------



## coredump

Ok. 7 weeks later I finally got my Zero. I ran the optical cable to my Realtek and plugged in my HD650. It doesn't sound so great but it works. I then connect the Zero to my MKIII with RCA cables. I plug in my HD650 to the MKIII and it sounds pretty good...for about 30 seconds. Then the music stops mid song. I don't know what happened but nothing I do seems to fix it. I have the Zero connected to the Realtek through optical, headphones plugged in, nothing else connected and it doesn't seem to work anymore. Any ideas? I've powered everything up and down, redid the cables. Even when I was just using the Zero I had a few pauses in the music so maybe something was going out. I only used it for about 5 minutes. All the lights seem to work and I'm getting light through the optical. I don't have any extra optical cables and the optical connection on my X-Fi doesn't match the cable.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coredump* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok. 7 weeks later I finally got my Zero. I ran the optical cable to my Realtek and plugged in my HD650. It doesn't sound so great but it works. I then connect the Zero to my MKIII with RCA cables. I plug in my HD650 to the MKIII and it sounds pretty good...for about 30 seconds. Then the music stops mid song. I don't know what happened but nothing I do seems to fix it. I have the Zero connected to the Realtek through optical, headphones plugged in, nothing else connected and it doesn't seem to work anymore. Any ideas? I've powered everything up and down, redid the cables. Even when I was just using the Zero I had a few pauses in the music so maybe something was going out. I only used it for about 5 minutes. All the lights seem to work and I'm getting light through the optical. I don't have any extra optical cables and the optical connection on my X-Fi doesn't match the cable._

 

Go into the properties of the realtek audio in the control panel and make sure the settings are correct there. If so, then I would try another optical source to make sure the Zero is working, which it most likely is. Early on, I had issues with my Realtek HD audio built in to my notebook. It would stop start skip jump, and it turned out it didn't have enough CPU cycles for itself. If I waited until the hard drive wasn't running start up things, then it would be ok most of the time. I do remember I had to activate the Optical out in the windows audio settings.


----------



## CountChoculaBot

So I read here that Zero DAC Amp > Hotrodded X-Fi Fatality. Is that the general consensus? What if it was Hotrodded X-Fi + iBasso D2 (or Go-vibe petite, or any other similar portable amp) vs the Zero DAC? How much better would the Zero DAC be (I'd have to sell my iBasso D2 if so to get this baby 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)? This is assuming everything has had opamps rolled, and damn the expense of the opamps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh yes, is digital out good for gaming? I think I read somewhere that games can't pass 5.1 audio out through digital? Or is that bologna (or am I supposed to spell it baloney in this case? =\)?


----------



## coredump

The Realtek digital appears to be working. The sound meter next to the digital out option is moving with the music. Like I said it stopped mid-song and I didn't change anything. I tried it on my wife's computer but it's not entirely obvious if the optical is working. It's lit up but I don't see any options for it in the sound panel.

 So I took the lid off and found the Mute and Reset switch. Should I give one a try?


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coredump* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I took the lid off and found the Mute and Reset switch. Should I give one a try?_

 

Pressing the reset button does reset the microcontroller which initializes the DAC and the receiver. As does a power up.

 There is a LED between coaxial and optical input... if it is lit then there is a valid S/PDIF connection to your computer. But it doesn't indicate that there is any sound.

 Which other LEDs are lit?


----------



## coredump

4 LED all together. One by the optical. One kind of over by where the power comes in and 2 on the smaller board at the front. It looks like the only two not lit are the reset and mute.


----------



## souperman

How should I set up my optical settings for the ZERO?


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coredump* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_4 LED all together. One by the optical. One kind of over by where the power comes in and 2 on the smaller board at the front. It looks like the only two not lit are the reset and mute._

 

Hmm... looks all fine.

 If you press the Preamp button again and again, do you hear some clicking?
 Check the cables to this smaller board. Are they attached to their sockets?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *souperman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 How should I set up my optical settings for the ZERO?_

 

It depends. With the X-Fi's, setting it to the highest rate seems to sound better to most folks. Where it's at right now will give pleasant results too. You'll have to experiment a little, when the Zero is burnt in.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CountChoculaBot* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I read here that Zero DAC Amp > Hotrodded X-Fi Fatality. Is that the general consensus? What if it was Hotrodded X-Fi + iBasso D2 (or Go-vibe petite, or any other similar portable amp) vs the Zero DAC? How much better would the Zero DAC be (I'd have to sell my iBasso D2 if so to get this baby 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)? This is assuming everything has had opamps rolled, and damn the expense of the opamps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh yes, is digital out good for gaming? I think I read somewhere that games can't pass 5.1 audio out through digital? Or is that bologna (or am I supposed to spell it baloney in this case? =\)?_

 

First the games: If you already have dedicated speakers and stuff for the surround, keep them and drive them like you always have. For audio, you'd enable the optical or coaxial out, to the Zero for headphones or use the Zero's output to another amp for phones. The X-Fi will drive all outputs at the same time too. So, you can turn off what you don't want driven. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This is a general consensus from gamers who have improved their audio for music, and kept their surround rigs for games.

 The Zero's attraction here, is that it is going to sound better than almost all portable DAC/Amps. You would need to spend $400+ to get the same performance, and even then, it might not sound as good in the headphone amp. The Zero's dual mono headphone amp is really pretty sweet. So, for less than $200, and some cheap to get Opamps, you have quality improvements that have been estimated to be worth 3 to 4 times the expenditure. This has drawn a sizable crowd, and they confirm it's abilities.


----------



## magnetiq

im running lt1364 x 3 and it sounds pretty sweet, just waiting for the opa627bp to arrive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 btw i just set my audio card to _PCM 192khz_, surely this is the best option since the Zero is labeled '24 BIT/192KHz' too?

 *also toying with the idea of buying HD650s, i've got a pair of darth on their way too, worth getting the senns too?


----------



## CountChoculaBot

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_First the games: If you already have dedicated speakers and stuff for the surround, keep them and drive them like you always have. For audio, you'd enable the optical or coaxial out, to the Zero for headphones or use the Zero's output to another amp for phones. The X-Fi will drive all outputs at the same time too. So, you can turn off what you don't want driven. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This is a general consensus from gamers who have improved their audio for music, and kept their surround rigs for games.

 The Zero's attraction here, is that it is going to sound better than almost all portable DAC/Amps. You would need to spend $400+ to get the same performance, and even then, it might not sound as good in the headphone amp. The Zero's dual mono headphone amp is really pretty sweet. So, for less than $200, and some cheap to get Opamps, you have quality improvements that have been estimated to be worth 3 to 4 times the expenditure. This has drawn a sizable crowd, and they confirm it's abilities. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks for the info 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now I just need to sell my iBasso D2 -_-


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magnetiq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_btw i just set my audio card to PCM 192khz, surely this is the best option since the Zero is labeled '24 BIT/192KHz' too?_

 

IMO if your source audio is 44.1kHz and you don't use a sample rate converter there is no need for 192kHz. I think that the DAC is working well if it knows the sampling rate of the source data.

 On the other hand there is a discussion about the DAC1, that their DAC is operating at 100-ish kHz, because that's the best frequency for the DAC to convert the digital data. They use an ASRC to up- and downsample any data to 100-ish kHz.


----------



## souperman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It depends. With the X-Fi's, setting it to the highest rate seems to sound better to most folks. Where it's at right now will give pleasant results too. You'll have to experiment a little, when the Zero is burnt in._

 

What should my output source be?


----------



## sorcer

Will the Zero play input from either of these "newer" sources? 

 I don't know much about them, for example, if the digital output can be converted to CD format, and if so, does it make sense to do so?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magnetiq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_im running lt1364 x 3 and it sounds pretty sweet, just waiting for the opa627bp to arrive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 btw i just set my audio card to PCM 192khz, surely this is the best option since the Zero is labeled '24 BIT/192KHz' too?

 *also toying with the idea of buying HD650s, i've got a pair of darth on their way too, worth getting the senns too?_

 

I think it is going to depend on your own ears. With my X-FI card, I have it set to the highest possible, because there is a very slight sound improvement. Others have reported the same, and others have reported that it is better to keep it from oversampling.

 I'm a Senn fan. I have been for years and just can't help it. From my first HD-580's, I have loved the sound and comfort. I now have the HD-650 and HD-600 too, and I love all of them. I have always protected my hearing and I have little loss, so this might play into my preference as well. I guess I would say the Senn's are excellent for all types of music and all types of equipment, so this gives me great flexibility with little fuss. It is easy to recommend them.


----------



## sorcer

I just got new 650s last night, and I'm already impressed, just from listening through a cheap DVD player and my low-end Dennon, and my old 3G iPod. wow.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sorcer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Will the Zero play input from either of these "newer" sources? 

 I don't know much about them, for example, if the digital output can be converted to CD format, and if so, does it make sense to do so?_

 

It doesn't matter what the media is being played, it depends on what the deck outputs. If it is optical or coaxial at 192, it will do it. Check the deck in question to see what it outputs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't think it is going to be a problem.


----------



## fl00r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sorcer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got new 650s last night, and I'm already impressed, just from listening through a cheap DVD player and my low-end Dennon, and my old 3G iPod. wow._

 

The HD650s are amazing! I've read a lot of praising things about them here on the board but never could justify the extra costs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My primary phones were the K701s and I mean were.... A couple of weeks ago they went nuts when I attached them to my newly acquired DV336i 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway, they went for a repair and I bought the 650s to keep me company meanwhile.

 The rest is history.....


----------



## CountChoculaBot

From what I gather, there is one OpAmp for the DAC and two for the headphone amp, right? What's the general consensus on the absolute best combo for when using the amp function (for an HFI-780, preferably)?

 So far, I think I've read that dual OPA627's are the overwhelming choice for the DAC, but what of the headphone amp? I've been reading that the LME49720 is good, would many consider it the best? Or would that go to something like the LT1364?


----------



## Trapper32

Don't have the 780's but with Senns you can't go wrong with the 627s in the dac and either one that u mentioned in the amp. The 49720s are a great combo with the 627s but ultimately to my ears the 1364s edged them out for my favorite in the amp..


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think it is going to depend on your own ears. With my X-FI card, I have it set to the highest possible, because there is a very slight sound improvement. Others have reported the same, and others have reported that it is better to keep it from oversampling._

 

Do you know what your sound card does? Does it oversampling? Does it fill the gaps with calculated data or does it duplicate the value x times?

 So if this is your source data:






 In the worst case your audio card does a 4 times sampling rate like this:





 And the poor DAC have to translate this to an analog signal. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oversampling should be done by a CD/DVD-A/SACD player or inside a DAC/SRC.
 If you want to increase the sampling rate you can use the SRC plugin of foobar2k.


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It doesn't matter what the media is being played, it depends on what the deck outputs. If it is optical or coaxial at 192, it will do it. Check the deck in question to see what it outputs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't think it is going to be a problem._

 

Yep... the ZERO takes it all.
 It tried Professional instead of Consumer S/PDIF format... works well too.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you know what your sound card does? Does it oversampling? Does it fill the gaps with calculated data or does it duplicate the value x times?

 So if this is your source data:





 In the worst case your audio card does a 4 times sampling rate like this:





 And the poor DAC have to translate this to an analog signal. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oversampling should be done by a CD/DVD-A/SACD player or inside a DAC/SRC.
 If you want to increase the sampling rate you can use the SRC plugin of foobar2k._

 

I've heard this too. The difficulty for those just trying to keep things simple, is the possibility of a slightly better sounding output. When I first heard this, I wasn't doing it. Then I tried to AB it (useless) but I did believe I detected a slight improvement. Logic kinda flies out the window at that point, so I just left it. Have you heard anything that would support a slight improvement?
 Thanks


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trapper32* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't have the 780's but with Senns you can't go wrong with the 627s in the dac and either one that u mentioned in the amp. The 49720s are a great combo with the 627s but ultimately to my ears the 1364s edged them out for my favorite in the amp.._

 

Yes, I felt this too. For me (using Senns) the LT1469 or LT1364 in the amp was hard to beat.


----------



## CountChoculaBot

Hmm... just looked at LT's website and found out they do free samples. I guess I'll order the LT1469, LT1364, LT1361, LT1057, as well as some free samples of the LME49720. Ahh... free samples... first only good for getting cookies at the supermarket as a child, now they're good for OpAmps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh yeah, I didn't miss any audio related LT OpAmps, did I?


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CountChoculaBot* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm... just looked at LT's website and found out they do free samples. I guess I'll order the LT1469, LT1364, LT1361, LT1057, as well as some free samples of the LME49720. Ahh... free samples... first only good for getting cookies at the supermarket as a child, now they're good for OpAmps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

LME49720 is National Semiconductor.


----------



## CountChoculaBot

Yep, I know. Though the way I phrased it, it did sound like I included the LME49720 under LT''s line up =\

 EDIT

 How much does Lawrence charge for 2x OPA627BP and the adapter?


----------



## coredump

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm... looks all fine.

 If you press the Preamp button again and again, do you hear some clicking?
 Check the cables to this smaller board. Are they attached to their sockets?_

 

Yes I hear the clicking.

 This morning I powered up the Zero to try again and it was working. I didn't do anything different. It was just as I left it the other night. I though great. It must have fixed itself. Then 30 seconds after it started working I went to adjust the onscreen volume and it stopped working again. All I did was try to turn the volume up. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm clueless. Nothing I did got it working again. I tried connecting it a DVD player and a Stereo but nothing worked. I'll try to connect it to my X-Fi but I need to find a toslink to optical mini adaptor. Maybe Radio Shack will have one. Is this thing over heating?


----------



## Seba

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CountChoculaBot* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep, I know. Though the way I phrased it, it did sound like I included the LME49720 under LT''s line up =\

 EDIT

 How much does Lawrence charge for 2x OPA627BP and the adapter?_

 

Lawrence sold me BP's for expensive price and I got AP's. One of the 627's went broken almost right from the start. Now Lawrence is asking me to pay for the replacement. So, DON'T buy from Lawrence and instead buy them from Wu from diykits.com.hk

 They are cheaper there and he should have BP's for real.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CountChoculaBot* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From what I gather, there is one OpAmp for the DAC and two for the headphone amp, right? What's the general consensus on the absolute best combo for when using the amp function (for an HFI-780, preferably)?

 So far, I think I've read that dual OPA627's are the overwhelming choice for the DAC, but what of the headphone amp? I've been reading that the LME49720 is good, would many consider it the best? Or would that go to something like the LT1364?_

 

I used opa627 in the dac for a long time. Everything was good except for a small amount of annoying sibilance, not the kind of sibilance which is hard on the ears, but another kind which just gets in the way a bit.

 The LT1364 cured most of this and it It sounds really good. I now use it with LT1361 in the amp. This is one good combo, synergy I would say. The only thing which might stop you from using this combo is a slightly elevated treble, something which LT1361 is responsible of, which maybe don't fit with HFI-780.

 If that is the case, I would probably use LT1469 in the amp, which is also very good, but with more gentle treble. 

 If I wanted to use OPA627 in the dac, I would use LT1469 in the amp, as I found it to be a good fit.

 I haven't found a good partner for LME49720 yet, not in the dac nor in the amp.


----------



## CountChoculaBot

You said the LT1364 sounded just as good overall as the OPA627, right? 'Cause if so, helloooo opportunity to save $30


----------



## CountChoculaBot

Need some quick help ordering the LT's 

 For the LT1469, do I get
 LT1469CN8#PBF
 or
 LT1469IN8#PBF
 From what I gather, the I and C denote temperature ranges, with I being better. Is that the only difference?

 LT1057
 LT1057CN8#PBF
 or
 LT1057ACN8#PBF
 I couldn't find anything in LT's documentation that states what that extra A denotes, but it is $2 more expensive, so I assume it's better?


----------



## Godfather08

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CountChoculaBot* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Need some quick help ordering the LT's 

 For the LT1469, do I get
 LT1469CN8#PBF
 or
 LT1469IN8#PBF
 From what I gather, the I and C denote temperature ranges, with I being better. Is that the only difference?

 LT1057
 LT1057CN8#PBF
 or
 LT1057ACN8#PBF
 I couldn't find anything in LT's documentation that states what that extra A denotes, but it is $2 more expensive, so I assume it's better?_

 

Get LT1469CN8#PBF & LT1057CN8#PBF


----------



## souperman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I used opa627 in the dac for a long time. Everything was good except for a small amount of annoying sibilance, not the kind of sibilance which is hard on the ears, but another kind which just gets in the way a bit.

 The LT1364 cured most of this and it It sounds really good. I now use it with LT1361 in the amp. This is one good combo, synergy I would say. The only thing which might stop you from using this combo is a slightly elevated treble, something which LT1361 is responsible of, which maybe don't fit with HFI-780.

 If that is the case, I would probably use LT1469 in the amp, which is also very good, but with more gentle treble. 

 If I wanted to use OPA627 in the dac, I would use LT1469 in the amp, as I found it to be a good fit.

 I haven't found a good partner for LME49720 yet, not in the dac nor in the amp._

 

So I guess you disagree with pincellone that the LME49720 works best everywhere?


----------



## pincellone

I'm not sure he disagrees with me. Perhaps he didn't have the chance to try the 3X LME49720 combo. It is indeed the best one for me...

 By the way, although the specs look the same, I've never compared the LM4562 with LME49720. Some people say LME49720 is just a renamed version of LM4562, BUT I wouldn't be 100% sure. If you've already tried LM4562 and have a chance to get a few LME49720 give them a try. You might be surprised...


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *souperman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I guess you disagree with pincellone that the LME49720 works best everywhere?_


----------



## coredump

Well Lawrence asked me to ship the main board back for a replacement. I assume the main board is the bigger one in the back. I've asked if he can just give me a refund. I really don't want to wait another month or two for this to get straitened out. I'm not even sure of the best way to ship a circuit board to China but I'm sure it will cost a lot.


----------



## souperman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not sure he disagrees with me. Perhaps he didn't have the chance to try the 3X LME49720 combo. It is indeed the best one for me...

 By the way, although the specs look the same, I've never compared the LM4562 with LME49720. Some people say LME49720 is just a renamed version of LM4562, BUT I wouldn't be 100% sure. If you've already tried LM4562 and have a chance to get a few LME49720 give them a try. You might be surprised..._

 

Sorry, but I couldn't really find your take on what the LME49720 other than they are the best. Mind giving me a low-down on the sound signature of the LM47920's? Warm, cold, analytical, sound-stage, bass, highs, etc...


----------



## thundercatslair

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coredump* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well Lawrence asked me to ship the main board back for a replacement. I assume the main board is the bigger one in the back. I've asked if he can just give me a refund. I really don't want to wait another month or two for this to get straitened out. I'm not even sure of the best way to ship a circuit board to China but I'm sure it will cost a lot._

 

He told me to do the same. I looked under the board and there was a huge glob solder and some of the PCB was ripped. Mine would turn off at random too and the right channel was distorted badly. I hope he sends me a new one that will work, if not aw well, at this point I'm honestly not expecting much.


----------



## coredump

Well it's good to know I'm not alone. I think both of ours came out of the same batch. How did you ship it back? I guess I'll try USPS. It should be about $37. I priced UPS and FedEx once and they were about $90. 

 I didn't see anything odd on mine but some of the resistors were soldered on the back and squished between the case and PCB board.


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_By the way, although the specs look the same, I've never compared the LM4562 with LME49720. Some people say LME49720 is just a renamed version of LM4562, BUT I wouldn't be 100% sure. If you've already tried LM4562 and have a chance to get a few LME49720 give them a try. You might be surprised..._

 

Let's quote BrassTeacher on diyAudio.com:
  Quote:


 I actually e-mail the tech people at National. They said yes, the only difference is the number stamped on the outside.

 BT


----------



## Headdie

Does the ZERO DAC Head Amp can be used to power directly difficult 'phones like DT880, K601 or K701 ? Would it be enough or just a bad compromise ?


----------



## mADmAN

i have my ZERO powering a 250ohm DT990 and i keep the volume at slightly more than 9 o'clock.

 which is loud according to my colleagues......


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thundercatslair* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_He told me to do the same. I looked under the board and there was a huge glob solder and some of the PCB was ripped. Mine would turn off at random too and the right channel was distorted badly. I hope he sends me a new one that will work, if not aw well, at this point I'm honestly not expecting much._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coredump* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well it's good to know I'm not alone. I think both of ours came out of the same batch. How did you ship it back? I guess I'll try USPS. It should be about $37. I priced UPS and FedEx once and they were about $90. 

 I didn't see anything odd on mine but some of the resistors were soldered on the back and squished between the case and PCB board._

 

Well, I'm pretty distressed about you two guys Zeros. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I hate to put additional pressure on him, but, if he's getting Zero's from the factory that have QC problems, he'd better make damn sure he catches the problems and gets feedback to the factory, not ship them internationally like a crap shoot. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sorry, I'm just upset.

 I hope you guys will insist he "make good" on the problem, like not only fixing them, but giving you some Opamps or something to compensate for the one way postage you are out. He has done this voluntarily in the past, but I've lost track because we've had less bad units up to now (yours). Also, if sending the entire unit doesn't cost more, and you'd feel safer doing that, he should let you, so you can insist he bench checks them before sending them back. Thats just my 2 cents worth, but it seems logical.

 These problems aside, the Zero is a fantastic little unit, and I just hope you both get to experience that. If not, I understand completely and I'm sure everyone here would understand too. Good luck and keep us posted.
 Thanks!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Headdie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does the ZERO DAC Head Amp can be used to power directly difficult 'phones like DT880, K601 or K701 ? Would it be enough or just a bad compromise ?_

 

No compromise, it will drive any headphones up to 600ohms, with ease. Remember, even in the review it was driving 300ohm Senn HD-650s with total ease. It has a lot of clean power.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Let's quote BrassTeacher on diyAudio.com:_

 

Thanks for the clarification. While I like the LM4562 in everything except the highs, I'll most likely never go back to them. I always felt the LT1364 had similar properties, minus the excessive highs, so it was a natural replacement.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *souperman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I guess you disagree with pincellone that the LME49720 works best everywhere?_

 

My impression of them was that they were just a tad boring to listen to. I tried 3x LME49270 also, and it worked quite well for dt990 but made the dt880/ms2i to boring. They are rather neutral but just a bit to the cold side, analytical, good air and details, very hifi sounding. I didn't find it very euphoric at all though. 

 A cold very slightly boring sound is not the best for dt880 or ms2i.

 LT1364+LT1361 carry a lot of emotion, but still manage to sound very hifi. I really liked the LT1028 in the dac when I tried it, but I haven't got a definite answer yet to if it is safe to use it (it gets VERY hot).

 EDIT: Just tried LT1469(dac)+LT1361(amp) and I like the sound. LT1469 is very smooth, but still clear, very musical. 

 It ties the music together very good and does not focus on presenting the different musicians, but rather the whole group. 

 In the dac while LT1361 in the amp.: LT1364 vs LT1469 is a bit like DT880 vs HD650. DT880 is very airy, while HD650 "fills" this air with music, which makes the sound thicker. LT1364 is very airy while LT1469 fills the air. LT1364 presents the different musicians, while LT1469 presents the group as a whole. Both are very enjoyable.


----------



## souperman

Sorry if this has been asked before, but Lawrence is shipping mine tomorrow. How long did it take for it to be delivered? About 8 days? Thanks.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *souperman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry if this has been asked before, but Lawrence is shipping mine tomorrow. How long did it take for it to be delivered? About 8 days? Thanks._

 

Sound right to me. 6-8 days, depending on customs.


----------



## sorcer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep... the ZERO takes it all.
 It tried Professional instead of Consumer S/PDIF format... works well too._

 

Thanks. I need to find an inexpensive transport for one or more of these newer formats, I think (along with CD). 

 I started a thread - "inexpensive transport for new HP system" -but no one has posted there, just 45 readers 

 Can anyone point me to a place to learn more or see if there are cheap transports for these formats?

 Thanks.


----------



## strologu

Ok, somebody should be disappointed about the Zero..so am i
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I've tried it extensively, all the week-end, after 100 hours burning-in.
 First of all, all the right i-tunes setting, then i've tried optical spdif directly from my macbook: horrible, it was like listening a jitter's greatest hits..
 Then i've tried 2 different usb/spdif transport: the first was a cheap one purchased on ebay, and it was the same jitter fest, and then the Trends Audio UD10.1, a clearly better transport.
 Found the right transport i've hooked the Zero with a Belden digital cable.
 Listening to a lot of records, previously ripped on my HD, the listening session was not so nice: the Zero was performing just a little bit better than the macbook's headphone output! It was better, obviously, but not that better to justify the presence of a transport, a dac, cables and batteries (the one needed by the Trends Audio), instead of a simple cable plugged in (the one of the headphones). The music with the Zero hooked to the Trends Audio had more transparency, detail and solidity, but not enough for me.
 I've tried to switch from one output to the other several times, and at the end..my zero will go on ebay tonight..
 Conclusion:it's not a bad unit for the price you pay, less than 150€ in Europe, but i'm not satisfied with his quality, i was looking for something better.


----------



## davve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *strologu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, somebody should be disappointed about the Zero..so am i
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I've tried it extensively, all the week-end, after 100 hours burning-in.
 First of all, all the right i-tunes setting, then i've tried optical spdif directly from my macbook: horrible, it was like listening a jitter's greatest hits..
 Then i've tried 2 different usb/spdif transport: the first was a cheap one purchased on ebay, and it was the same jitter fest, and then the Trends Audio UD10.1, a clearly better transport.
 Found the right transport i've hooked the Zero with a Belden digital cable.
 Listening to a lot of records, previously ripped on my HD, the listening session was not so nice: the Zero was performing just a little bit better than the macbook's headphone output!
 I've tried to switch from one output to the other several times, and at the end..my zero will go on ebay tonight..
 Conclusion:it's not a bad unit for the price you pay, less than 150€ in Europe, but i'm not satisfied with his quality, i was looking for something better._

 


 sorry to hear that! have you tested different Opamps?


----------



## strologu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sorry to hear that! have you tested different Opamps?_

 

Oh no, it's not that sad 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 For the opamps, i don't want to try different models, i just want a decisely better DAC/amp.
 I'm quite sure i'll check the benchmark dac1, this one should be a huge upgrade.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *strologu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh no, it's not that sad 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 For the opamps, i don't want to try different models, i just want a decisely better DAC/amp.
 I'm quite sure i'll check the benchmark dac1, this one should be a huge upgrade._

 

What rate were your files ripped at? Also, what headphones are you using?
 Thanks!


----------



## strologu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What rate were your files ripped at? Also, what headphones are you using?
 Thanks!_

 

The files were .aiff or apple loseless, the headphone my trusty Sony MDR-7506.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *strologu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The files were .aiff or apple loseless, the headphone my trusty Sony MDR-7506._

 

You did realize that the Zero doesn't support 24ohm headphones, right?
 32ohm minimum. You could adapt them to a higher load and try, but the majority here who are getting "excellent" results, are doing so on headphones that are over 64ohms and more like around 300ohms. Your Sony's are made for headphone jack use. Amping them will not help them much in sound quality, using the same source. Can you barrow a friends better headphones and give it a try?


----------



## strologu

Quote:


 You did realize that the Zero doesn't support 24ohm headphones, right?32ohm minimum. 
 

My Sony are 64ohm.
  Quote:


 Your Sony's are made for headphone jack use. Amping them will not help them much in sound quality, using the same source 
 

Is it absolutely possible, i've also thought about it.
  Quote:


 Can you barrow a friends better headphones and give it a try? 
 

I don't want to change my 'phones. I know that a lot of people hates the 7506's, but for me they are "the phones", because i know very well how they translate sound and music, as i used to work with them (i'm a sound technician). But there's no problem with my unit: it's now on ebay, i just needed something better, but maybe this "better" means 1000€ more.


----------



## souperman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *strologu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Sony are 64ohm.

 Is it absolutely possible, i've also thought about it.

 I don't want to change my 'phones. I know that a lot of people hates the 7506's, but for me they are "the phones", because i know very well how they translate sound and music, as i used to work with them (i'm a sound technician). But there's no problem with my unit: it's now on ebay, i just needed something better, but maybe this "better" means 1000€ more._

 

I don't think strologu was taking into account the price point. Many people love the Zero becuase of how cheap it is. I wouldn't say it would be THAT great of a DAC/Amp, but for it's price it beats out anything. He's just dissappointed because he probably expected better, which is his fault and his alone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. This thing is a budget DAC/Amp. Not a killer.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *strologu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Sony are 64ohm.

 Is it absolutely possible, i've also thought about it.

 I don't want to change my 'phones. I know that a lot of people hates the 7506's, but for me they are "the phones", because i know very well how they translate sound and music, as i used to work with them (i'm a sound technician). But there's no problem with my unit: it's now on ebay, i just needed something better, but maybe this "better" means 1000€ more._

 

Ok, maybe there is another way of saying this. If you can't get an improvement with your current Sony's (even 64ohm) using the Zero hooked optical with your Macbook, playing lossless files, you won't be able too with a more costly DAC/Amp either. A weakness is showing itself for the first time, and you should figure out this weakness now, before spending more money and quite possibly more disappointment.


----------



## strologu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *souperman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_He's just dissappointed because he probably expected better, which is his fault and his alone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




._

 

That's it! I'm not saying that Zero is a bad product, i'm only saying that i expected more because of the general enthusiasm. Now, alone with my fault
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, i'll back on the market for another DAC. It seems that my target will be the Benchmark with USB connection.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *souperman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't think strologu was taking into account the price point. Many people love the Zero becuase of how cheap it is. I wouldn't say it would be THAT great of a DAC/Amp, but for it's price it beats out anything. He's just dissappointed because he probably expected better, which is his fault and his alone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. This thing is a budget DAC/Amp. Not a killer._

 

It's cool. What is happening is a problem though. A stock Zero burned-in, using optical out with lossless files, is going to sound much better than a Macbook headphone out, even using the same headphones. No two ways about it. There is a weak link showing itself here, and he should figure it out before spending any more cash, or take the risk of being in the same situation with more expensive equipment to deal with. That's all. I'm just trying to help him see what is in front of him.


----------



## fl00r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *strologu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Sony are 64ohm.

 Is it absolutely possible, i've also thought about it.

 I don't want to change my 'phones. I know that a lot of people hates the 7506's, but for me they are "the phones", because i know very well how they translate sound and music, as i used to work with them (i'm a sound technician). But there's no problem with my unit: it's now on ebay, i just needed something better, but maybe this "better" means 1000€ more._

 

I am sorry to hear you're disappointed with the ZERO. I will get mine in a few days (I guess) so I am very curious what it will bring me.

 I understand that you want to move on and leave the ZERO for what it is. I almost canceled my order but decided not to in the end. Meanwhile I bought a Stello DA100 DAC and toshlinked it to my CDP. It's really a great DAC and since you bypass the player's DAC/AMP there's no need for an expensive CDP. Any player with a digital out will do. Maybe that's the way to go for you? Just my 2 cent.

 Good luck!


----------



## Fremen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *strologu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's it! I'm not saying that Zero is a bad product, i'm only saying that i expected more because of the general enthusiasm. Now, alone with my fault
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, i'll back on the market for another DAC. It seems that my target will be the Benchmark with USB connection._

 

Did you try another player than itunes?
 I tried the Zero on my wife's macbook pro (optical output) and was quite disappointed. Till I realized that itunes was tweaking the sound. (I compared with my PC plugged with the coaxial ouput, playing the same loseless track and switching from optical to coax).
 Than I played the same loseless file with VLC on the mac (VLC media player for Mac OS X).
 With VLC on the mac, the sound seems to my ears the same than with the PC and foobar.
 Could be worth to give it a try.


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fl00r* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am sorry to hear you're disappointed with the ZERO. I will get mine in a few days (I guess) so I am very curious what it will bring me._

 

If you are disappointed I'll take it out of your hands.
 But I'm sure that I don't have to go on an 1-hour-trip to Nijmegen.

 Nevertheless... veel geluk.


----------



## strologu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fremen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Than I played the same loseless file with VLC on the mac (VLC media player for Mac OS X).
 With VLC on the mac, the sound seems to my ears the same than with the PC and foobar.
 Could be worth to give it a try.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Oh yeah, i've tried, and it sounds better, but not enough


----------



## strologu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is a weak link showing itself here, and he should figure it out before spending any more cash, or take the risk of being in the same situation with more expensive equipment to deal with. That's all. I'm just trying to help him see what is in front of him._

 

Thanks Penchum! I'm thinking that in the audio chain there's something wrong..including the listener
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 My system was revealing enough to detect A LOT of difference between spdif optical and usb connection, little sound signature differences between two different HD (one of them self-powered via FW), clear differences between two identical optical cable (the one with canare plugs was clearly better).
 So, i'm thinking if the problem, seriously, it's me.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *strologu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Penchum! I'm thinking that in the audio chain there's something wrong..including the listener
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 My system was revealing enough to detect A LOT of difference between spdif optical and usb connection, little sound signature differences between two different HD (one of them self-powered via FW), clear differences between two identical optical cable (the one with canare plugs was clearly better).
 So, i'm thinking if the problem, seriously, it's me._

 

Around here, we call that "hitting the wall". It simply means it is time to put away the "analytical" and "evaluation" part of listening, and simply listen to the music and enjoy for a while. Like 2 weeks. Just listen and enjoy.


----------



## strologu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Around here, we call that "hitting the wall". It simply means it is time to put away the "analytical" and "evaluation" part of listening, and simply listen to the music and enjoy for a while. Like 2 weeks. Just listen and enjoy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Maybe you're just right
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Ok, i'll try to just listen for a while..then i'l be back to post my impressions once more, and now..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




..a large musical session!


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *strologu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My system was revealing enough to detect ... little sound signature differences between two different HD (one of them self-powered via FW), ..._

 

Hmm...


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yep. Hit the wall.


----------



## strologu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

it's strange...but true, i'm confused too about it..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 but..it's so strange that i think it's just my unit that has some problem..


----------



## strologu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep. Hit the wall. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Now i understand perfectly what you mean with "hitting the wall"


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *strologu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now i understand perfectly what you mean with "hitting the wall"
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Honestly, it gets us all at one time or another. It is similar to not getting enough sleep. Eventually, you have to lay down and sleep. If you don't, things start to go strange and conclusions drawn are more than likely messed up. Opamp roller's have this happen with frequency! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Not too worry. Enjoy the music. It is the cure.


----------



## souperman

Has anyone tried the OPA637BP's in the Zero DAC? Seems like it would be good like the OPA627BP's. I'm also interested in the OPA2107 and OPA2134. If anyone has these, please plop them into your Zero in any of the spots and let us know!


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *souperman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone tried the OPA637BP's in the Zero DAC? Seems like it would be good like the OPA627BP's._

 

I don't know if the ZERO can provide a gain >= 5.
 The OPA627 is unity-gain stable. The OPA637 is stable in gains equal to or greater than five.


----------



## souperman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't know if the ZERO can provide a gain >= 5.
 The OPA627 is unity-gain stable. The OPA637 is stable in gains equal to or greater than five._

 

I see. I wonder if anybody knows if the Zero can provide a gain >=5. I would assume it can since it can drive Senn's so well. What about the other OPA's that I mentioned?


----------



## hxcxor

Ugh. I received my Zero today and I've tinkered and toyed endlessly and can only get audio in the left channel. Am I going to have to open this thing up and check the OpAmps?


----------



## souperman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hxcxor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ugh. I received my Zero today and I've tinkered and toyed endlessly and can only get audio in the left channel. Am I going to have to open this thing up and check the OpAmps?_

 

Wow...it really seems like the QC is going down hill.


----------



## coredump

Well I just got an email from Lawrence. He said I can ship the whole thing back and that he has one reserved for me. I guess that will be good. I was worried about shipping the main board back and finding out the problem was somewhere else.

 He also said I am near the destiny. I'm not sure what that means but it sounds good.


----------



## fl00r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you are disappointed I'll take it out of your hands.
 But I'm sure that I don't have to go on an 1-hour-trip to Nijmegen.

 Nevertheless... veel geluk. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'll keep you posted!

 Vielleicht auf Wiedersehen!


----------



## fl00r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *strologu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now i understand perfectly what you mean with "hitting the wall"
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well I still don't have a clue what you mean, I only hope that your ZERO won't hit the wall


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hxcxor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ugh. I received my Zero today and I've tinkered and toyed endlessly and can only get audio in the left channel. Am I going to have to open this thing up and check the OpAmps?_

 

Check the cables... all plugs correctly in their sockets?
 Opamps in their sockets? No pin is left behind? Is Pin 1 is on the left side, if the front buttons are pointing to you?
 Check the opamps on the smaller board, is one warmer than the other? Are they too hot while listening?
 Exchange the opamps on the smaller board. Do you get audio on the right channel?
 Are 4 LEDs lit if an input signal is applied?


----------



## LaZyKun

Recently ordered one of these units, I sure hope I get one from a good batch. This is going to be the longest week ever lol, I want my Zero now


----------



## hxcxor

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Check the cables... all plugs correctly in their sockets?
 Opamps in their sockets? No pin is left behind? Is Pin 1 is on the left side, if the front buttons are pointing to you?
 Check the opamps on the smaller board, is one warmer than the other? Are they too hot while listening?
 Exchange the opamps on the smaller board. Do you get audio on the right channel?
 Are 4 LEDs lit if an input signal is applied?_

 

Hmm, I think I'm in over my head. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I opened it up and all plugs seem to be sturdy. All pins seemed to be intact on Opamps. I switched them up and am still only getting audio in the left channel.

 Neither gets hot at all when listening. And yes, all 4 LED's are lit up.

 Going over everything, all components seem to be sturdy except one. In this photo:





 What would be the third pillar from the left is very, very loose. In addition, the fourth pillar becomes extremely hot while listening. Is it possible either of these could be the source of my problems? Also, is there any chance it could be driver issues, or would the audio not be playing at all if that were the problem? I had to update my Realtek drivers to get it to work, but as I said, only the left channel is coming through (but it sounds good!). Should I go buy a coaxial cable and see if I still have the same problems through coax?

 I'll probably order some Opamp samples and see if that helps anything out.

 EDIT: Broke one of the pins off one of the Opamps on accident. Looks like my troubleshooting's gonna have to wait until I get new Opamps... *sigh*


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hxcxor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Going over everything, all components seem to be sturdy except one. In this photo:





 What would be the third pillar from the left is very, very loose. In addition, the fourth pillar becomes extremely hot while listening. Is it possible either of these could be the source of my problems?_

 

If pillar means one of the 4 black heat sinks, that's ok as the heat sinks are not well attached to the board.
 Transistors are screwed on the heat sinks. Each of these transistors have 3 three silver-colored legs. It looks like the third leg of the third transistor is not well soldered or loose (left -> right).


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hxcxor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, is there any chance it could be driver issues, or would the audio not be playing at all if that were the problem? I had to update my Realtek drivers to get it to work, but as I said, only the left channel is coming through (but it sounds good!). Should I go buy a coaxial cable and see if I still have the same problems through coax?_

 

Ahh... try a standalone CD player with optical out.
 If there is only a coaxial output you can use a standard cinch audio cable (RCA audio cable), but only for testing. This cable isn't 75 Ohm so you have to check the LED between coaxial and optical input inside the ZERO. It must light.

 I assumed that you have a working source for digital audio. Otherwise I didn't suggest to open the ZERO.


----------



## magnetiq

Well, got my OPA627bp today, and it made a big difference to my ears, i can't stop listening to music!

 bass seems deeper and more 'refined', and the highs aren't so harsh anymore, good stuff.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If pillar means one of the 4 black heat sinks, that's ok as the heat sinks are not well attached to the board.
 Transistors are screwed on the heat sinks. Each of these transistors have 3 three silver-colored legs. It looks like the third leg of the third transistor is not well soldered or loose (left -> right).




 Ahh... try a standalone CD player with optical out.
 If there is only a coaxial output you can use a standard cinch audio cable (RCA audio cable), but only for testing. This cable isn't 75 Ohm so you have to check the LED between coaxial and optical input inside the ZERO. It must light.

 I assumed that you have a working source for digital audio. Otherwise I didn't suggest to open the ZERO._

 

If there is a way possible, testing the output of the Zero (RCA left and right) to an amp or receiver, would help determine if the problem is pre-Zero or internal Zero. Worth looking at for sure.


----------



## sorcer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magnetiq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, got my OPA627bp today, and it made a big difference to my ears, i can't stop listening to music!

 bass seems deeper and more 'refined', and the highs aren't so harsh anymore, good stuff._

 

did you just swap the one chip?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sorcer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_did you just swap the one chip?_

 

That would be two singles on a brown dog adapter.


----------



## Fremen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *souperman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see. I wonder if anybody knows if the Zero can provide a gain >=5. I would assume it can since it can drive Senn's so well. What about the other OPA's that I mentioned?_

 

The DAC opamp circuit is design for a gain of -1.1
 The opa637 works with gain <-4 or >5 so it won't work in the DAC output filter.
 Be carefull, unity gain stable means gains of +1. Some opamps are not unity gain stable but can work with -1 gain ...
 The THS4032 for example is not unity gain stable (>2) but works with a gain of -1


----------



## souperman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fremen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The DAC opamp circuit is design for a gain of -1.1
 The opa637 works with gain <-4 or >5 so it won't work in the DAC output filter.
 Be carefull, unity gain stable means gains of +1. Some opamps are not unity gain stable but can work with -1 gain ...
 The THS4032 for example is not unity gain stable (>2) but works with a gain of -1_

 

thanks.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fremen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The DAC opamp circuit is design for a gain of -1.1
 The opa637 works with gain <-4 or >5 so it won't work in the DAC output filter.
 Be carefull, unity gain stable means gains of +1. Some opamps are not unity gain stable but can work with -1 gain ...
 The THS4032 for example is not unity gain stable (>2) but works with a gain of -1_

 

I have a question. With the Opamps like the THS4032, that will work with a gain of -1. Does this hamper the Opamps abilities, or can we expect it to perform up to specs? Thanks!


----------



## Fremen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a question. With the Opamps like the THS4032, that will work with a gain of -1. Does this hamper the Opamps abilities, or can we expect it to perform up to specs? Thanks!_

 

Usually the specs are given for extreme values of gain or loads (depending on the type of characteristic) and could be better in other cases

 For example in the THS4031/4032 datasheet (http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/ths4031.pdf) you will find that the specs are given for values of gain=-1 and gain=+2.

 But gain issue is not the only problem encountered when opamp rolling . The values of passive components around the opamp have also to be taken into account. They are calculated to fit the stock opamp charateristics (input inpedance, input bias current, etc..). That explains why an opamp could be good in a specific environment and not in an other.
 I tried the THS4032 in the DAC filter because I heard good feedback on it: useless..lack of bass, narrow soundstage.. but it doesn't mean the THS4032 is a bad opamp. Just not good in the Zero DAC.


----------



## sorcer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That would be two singles on a brown dog adapter._

 

Thanks. That's what I thought..


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fremen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Usually the specs are given for extreme values of gain or loads (depending on the type of characteristic) and could be better in other cases

 For example in the THS4031/4032 datasheet (http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/ths4031.pdf) you will find that the specs are given for values of gain=-1 and gain=+2.

 But gain issue is not the only problem encountered when opamp rolling . The values of passive components around the opamp have also to be taken into account. They are calculated to fit the stock opamp charateristics (input inpedance, input bias current, etc..). That explains why an opamp could be good in a specific environment and not in an other.
 I tried the THS4032 in the DAC filter because I heard good feedback on it: useless..lack of bass, narrow soundstage.. but it doesn't mean the THS4032 is a bad opamp. Just not good in the Zero DAC._

 

Cool. This is as I thought it was. This is also why Opamps considered to be good in the Zero by several folks, usually turn out to be good for anyone trying them. Thanks for the more detailed explanation. Now if my damn OPA627's would get here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've got my first set of OPA627's in Zero #1 and I'm going to put the new set in Zero #2. Both will have LT1364's in the head amps (at least for a while). I'm doing this because #1 feeds my MKIVse and my #2 is a bridge between my PC and my Vintage SPEC equipment. But, I have a new toy to put into the mix, a pure tube pre-amp (5687s) with one input and two outputs, so I'm going to feed it with #2 Zero and take the two outputs, put one to my SPEC equipment and the other to my Sonic Super-T amp. We'll see how this turns out.


----------



## souperman

Would the OPA2107 work great in the DAC and amp section? I think it would be a good alternative to the more expensive OPA627's. I've also heard that they sound very similar and are actually more musical instead of more detailed. I think I'm going to try it out. I'm just not sure if I CAN use the OPA2107. Can anyone verify that it is safe to use anywhere in the Zero for me? Thanks.


----------



## souperman

How much of a difference is there between the Zhaolu D2.5A with discrete headphone amp module and the Zero DAC/Amp? It seems like the 2.5A is only a little more expensive with the headphone amp module. Has anyone heard both?


----------



## javaphones

Just got my ZERO! It only took 3 days from HK!

 The initial sound is a bit edgy and hollow but is still rather impressive. I'm sure it'll only get better after burn-in.

 The blue LEDs are really really bright as you guys noted. This mod will need to be done before opamp rolling; otherwise, those LEDs will burn holes in my eyes.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Thanks to all (particularly Penchum) for introducing this gem!


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *javaphones* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got my ZERO! It only took 3 days from HK!_

 

You're living in Hong Kong, right? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sorry, couldn't resist. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Welcome to the club!


----------



## sadhill

Hello to all members of this forum.

 I just got my Zero today (took 4 +/- weeks) from Lawrence.

 Thank you for the huge work done on this forum about this DAC.

 First impressions : it sounds already more dynamic than the DAC in my Denon DCD 700AE player, whitout having been burned in ! A bit more agressive (with the stock op-amps at least) but that's just a beginning (and with the standard optical cable).

 Clearly the blue LED's are bright...

 The amp knob not very welle adjusted rubing on the box...

 But for the price, looks very good value anyway.

 I'm only using a "poor" old Senn HD465... waiting to buy something better if the Zero keeps inviting me to do so.

 I've already some LM4562 and other to try in the future !


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sadhill* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello to all members of this forum.

 I just got my Zero today (took 4 +/- weeks) from Lawrence.

 Thank you for the huge work done on this forum about this DAC.

 First impressions : it sounds already more dynamic than the DAC in my Denon DCD 700AE player, whitout having been burned in ! A bit more agressive (with the stock op-amps at least) but that's just a beginning (and with the standard optical cable).

 Clearly the blue LED's are bright...

 The amp knob not very welle adjusted rubing on the box...

 But for the price, looks very good value anyway.

 I'm only using a "poor" old Senn HD465... waiting to buy something better if the Zero keeps inviting me to do so.

 I've already some LM4562 and other to try in the future !_

 

Glad to hear you got your Zero! It will change a good amount between now and 100 hrs (all good). Ow, and the knob is a pull off, push on type, so you can adjust it so it isn't scraping the face.


----------



## sdgserv

Just got mine yesterday. Payed on March 8 rec it yesterday.
 Would not work..Pressed every button there is..Then bang..it caught fire so I poured water down the vents and that spilled down on my computer and that seemed to splash on my surge protectors..What a freekin mess..
 I am letting it dry out and will give it a try after I finish this blunt


----------



## sorcer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sdgserv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got mine yesterday. Payed on March 8 rec it yesterday.
 Would not work..Pressed every button there is..Then bang..it caught fire so I poured water down the vents and that spilled down on my computer and that seemed to splash on my surge protectors..What a freekin mess..
 I am letting it dry out and will give it a try after I finish this blunt_

 

Please say you're kidding...


----------



## rpveld

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sdgserv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got mine yesterday. Payed on March 8 rec it yesterday.
 Would not work..Pressed every button there is..Then bang..it caught fire so I poured water down the vents and that spilled down on my computer and that seemed to splash on my surge protectors..What a freekin mess..
 I am letting it dry out and will give it a try after I finish this blunt_

 

This sounds promissing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Mine is on its way, now I do like some adventure, but not necessarily with my equipment.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Guess I will have to “fire it up” in the garden when it arrives.

 But seriously, this is really bad news for you, hope there is not too much damage done.


----------



## magnetiq

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sdgserv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got mine yesterday. Payed on March 8 rec it yesterday.
 Would not work..Pressed every button there is..Then bang..it caught fire so I poured water down the vents and that spilled down on my computer and that seemed to splash on my surge protectors..What a freekin mess..
 I am letting it dry out and will give it a try after I finish this blunt_

 

lol?


----------



## souperman

.


----------



## sdgserv

Hey got it to work..lol
 It ain't half bad. seems to work with my 650's. Going to try out the DAC with a PPAv2..see how it sounds


----------



## sdgserv

I am not going to give this a WOW but this DAC has a suprisingly good sound. Clean with a nice seperation. The only other DAC I have used was a VDA-1. and from what I can remember this is a little brighter.
 I'm happy. Need to fix the volume control 
 nob..little sticky.


----------



## souperman

I just realized the OPA2107 is unity-gain stable. I think it would work wonderfully in the DAC section instead of the OPA627's. I'm going to order quite a few in case anybody else wants some. I've heard that it's a cheaper version of the OPA627 with basically the same increase in sound quality.


----------



## sorcer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sdgserv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey got it to work..lol
 It ain't half bad. seems to work with my 650's. Going to try out the DAC with a PPAv2..see how it sounds_

 

Is this how people get banned? 

 Did you really get it that fast? I ordered mine on the 7th. 


 Steve


----------



## fl00r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sdgserv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got mine yesterday. Payed on March 8 rec it yesterday.
 Would not work..Pressed every button there is..Then bang..it caught fire so I poured water down the vents and that spilled down on my computer and that seemed to splash on my surge protectors..What a freekin mess..
 I am letting it dry out and will give it a try after I finish this blunt_

 

Mine is coming up soon now.

 You have a weird sense of humor


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sdgserv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got mine yesterday. Payed on March 8 rec it yesterday.
 Would not work..Pressed every button there is..Then bang..it caught fire so I poured water down the vents and that spilled down on my computer and that seemed to splash on my surge protectors..What a freekin mess..
 I am letting it dry out and will give it a try after I finish this blunt_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sdgserv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey got it to work..lol
 It ain't half bad. seems to work with my 650's. Going to try out the DAC with a PPAv2..see how it sounds_

 

You have no idea what you just did to me.


----------



## sdgserv

lol..Crap like that happens to me all the time.
 Hey I really like this. I set my sights pretty low. I mean I did not think I was going to even get it.
 If I had not listened to higher end HeadPhone amps. I probably would have been happy with this..


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sdgserv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_lol..Crap like that happens to me all the time.
 Hey I really like this. I set my sights pretty low. I mean I did not think I was going to even get it.
 If I had not listened to higher end HeadPhone amps. I probably would have been happy with this.._

 

Ok, I see, but you have to understand that right now, from the few posts you did today, nobody knows whether to take you seriously or not. I can't tell if your Zero really had a problem and you need our help, or if you were just joking and now you might not be so happy, because you are evaluating it too early, or what, or anything! For all we know, you are plugging and unplugging it standing on a wet carpet!


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sdgserv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got mine yesterday. Payed on March 8 rec it yesterday.
 Would not work..Pressed every button there is..Then bang..it caught fire so I poured water down the vents and that spilled down on my computer and that seemed to splash on my surge protectors..What a freekin mess..
 I am letting it dry out and will give it a try after I finish this blunt_

 

Bad boy... why no smiley?


----------



## oatmeal769

I just ordered one yesterday, I can hardly wait! I realise this has probably been gone over in this thread, but it is over 200 pgs long. - Is it better to use the coax input or the optical, or does it make a difference?


----------



## sdgserv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, I see, but you have to understand that right now, from the few posts you did today, nobody knows whether to take you seriously or not. I can't tell if your Zero really had a problem and you need our help, or if you were just joking and now you might not be so happy, because you are evaluating it too early, or what, or anything! For all we know, you are plugging and unplugging it standing on a wet carpet! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Nah..everthing is perfect..Just having fun. Enjoying my new toy
 Here are some smilies


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just ordered one yesterday, I can hardly wait! I realise this has probably been gone over in this thread, but it is over 200 pgs long. - Is it better to use the coax input or the optical, or does it make a difference?_

 

I don't believe we've had negative reports on either one, and I use both, and they seem to be great!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sdgserv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nah..everthing is perfect..Just having fun. Enjoying my new toy
 Here are some smilies
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	











_

 

Ok. Thanks for the smilies. My valium is kicking in, so things will be better soon.


----------



## magnetiq

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't believe we've had negative reports on either one, and I use both, and they seem to be great! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

no preference?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magnetiq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_no preference?_

 

I guess I'd prefer the Optical, only because the cable is so small and easy to "run" behind things.


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magnetiq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_no preference?_

 

A coaxial connection can cause a ground loop problem between ZERO and your player/computer. It can create an audible buzz.


----------



## magnetiq

do you think buying more expensive cables makes any difference?

 Also im using a stock optical, but i've read things like coaxial is more 'musical', etc

 any input would be nice


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magnetiq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_do you think buying more expensive cables makes any difference?

 Also im using a stock optical, but i've read things like coaxial is more 'musical', etc

 any input would be nice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I would buy a 3 or 6 ft. toslink glass cable, around $30. I think there is a lot of voodoo in cables.


----------



## oatmeal769

I can't see how really expensive optical cable or coax will make any difference as it's simply data that is being transported, unless the cable causes errors.


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can't see how really expensive optical cable or coax will make any difference as it's simply data that is being transported, unless the cable causes errors._

 

It's not all about the transport. There are professional connectors and cheap ones. The pro has a solid plug which holds steady so there isn't a gap between the optical fiber and the optical receptor.
 The isolation and the protective shielding around the optical fiber are essential.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magnetiq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_do you think buying more expensive cables makes any difference?

 Also im using a stock optical, but i've read things like coaxial is more 'musical', etc

 any input would be nice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I don't put much stock in those statements. I'm not saying they haven't had those experiences with their equipment, I'm simply saying I'd rather have folks spend a little money on protection and noise prevention/isolation, than even one expensive cable. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If one follows a few simple and practical "rules of thumb" about noise, and grounding, it is money better spent. IMHO 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Some of you guys know this stuff and some don't, so please follow along where applicable. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The first, is to make sure all your equipment is plugged into the same wall socket. Dividing the power up between two wall socket locations, is inviting problems. If you have too, get two surge protectors and plug them into the "one" wall outlet, then plug all your equipment into those two surge protectors. This includes your computers, no matter what type they are. This prevents "in room" grounding noise issues. (more common these days with cheaper construction and/or older wiring)

 Second would be to always buy a well insulated coaxial and RCA interconnects. Even cheaper ones like "Python" on eBay, have excellent insulation and shielding, and will get the job done without letting interference in.

 Third would be to buy block off caps for open and exposed RCA jacks, and block them off. This prevents any interference from making its way into your signal path or amps. Headphone amp/pre-amps and pre-amps in general, are more susceptible to this than other equipment.

 Forth would be to NOT cut off the grounding pins on any of your power plugs. Some do this as a quick and dirty method of removing noise, but it leaves your system without a real ground, which can be "very" bad in certain circumstances, and in others, void the warranty of some equipment and void your insurance coverage on your equipment in some states.

 Fifth would be to replace existing thin wire, thin insulated power cords (whether you chopped off the grounding pin or not) with much better quality power cords like these: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/joi...ml#post3786579

 All of these things can help cut down on your noise levels. When noise levels are lowered or removed, the effect is better sound quality within audible ranges. There is no need to spend a fortune on these either. Reputable brand surge protectors can be found in places like Sam's Club or Costco, or on the web, in a dual pack for very little money. RCA block off caps can be found from Chinese sellers on eBay for much less than Cardas or some others, and they do just as good a job. Note: If the block off caps you buy have center pins, remove the center pins! You wouldn't want to short your RCA inputs or outputs! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Lastly, improvements like these can also help make your system protected from lightening strikes. A good ground is "mandatory" to move lightening out of the house and into the ground. It is just that simple. A good surge protector will sacrifice itself to prevent lightening from traveling any further. If you have a phone cord laying behind your equipment, REMOVE IT and re-route it somewhere else. Lightening can come in on the phone line and jump to your system even when you have several feet distance between the two.

 Sorry if his is a lot of information for one simple question, but I figured it was time to share on this topic, since we have so many Zero and LD users out there now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Have a good one!!


----------



## magnetiq

wow, very thorough!!

 many thanks indeed fellas! given me a few things to think about!


----------



## strologu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magnetiq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_no preference?_

 

coaxial, by a large margin.


----------



## souperman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *strologu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_coaxial, by a large margin._

 

Why does that make any sense? I just have no idea why coaxial would sound better than optical.


----------



## fl00r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *souperman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why does that make any sense? I just have no idea why coaxial would sound better than optical._

 

X2


----------



## souperman

I just did a search on google. Lots of answers there. I'm going to go with coaxial since it's cheaper. Much cheaper. There technically should be no difference in SQ since it's just a digital signal. It's either 100% or 0%. But I guess some insist that coaxial have a warmer sound, while optical has a drier sound. Hard to believe in this case, but whatever floats people's boats.


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *souperman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why does that make any sense? I just have no idea why coaxial would sound better than optical._

 

Using an optical cable the digital signal is transformed to optical and back to an electrical signal. The coaxial has a higher bandwidth.

 I don't say it sounds better, but it's possible that the sound differs.


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *souperman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just did a search on google. Lots of answers there. I'm going to go with coaxial since it's cheaper. Much cheaper._

 

There are also expensive coaxial cables. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 From your signature I see that you spend extra money on new cabling for your headphones. And now you save on digital transport cable at the source of the audio chain.


----------



## souperman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There are also expensive coaxial cables. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 From your signature I see that you spend extra money on new cabling for your headphones. And now you save on digital transport cable at the source of the audio chain._

 

I spent the money on the cable to get a sturdier cable because the stock was so bad and was about to break anyways and it did not cost very much. I didn't get it to improve sound quality in any way. I don't know what you are trying to get at. I am saving money on a digital cable because it is transmitting a DIGITAL SIGNAL. In my opinion, it doesn't matter HOW HIGH quality you get, it will be the same. A cheap Acoustic Research coaxial cable has GREAT connectors and good build quality, and that all you really need in a digital cable. I don't know what you are trying to get at, but a digital signal is a digital signal. It's 1's and 0's. We can all have our own opinions.


----------



## pincellone

You are right. It's either 0s or 1s. No difference at all apart from the fact that coaxial might be subject to interference and toslink to jitter. But in general they sound the SAME.... As you said, only build quality can make some difference within each category (and, of course, the willingness to spend less rather than more money
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *souperman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I spent the money on the cable to get a sturdier cable because the stock was so bad and was about to break anyways and it did not cost very much. I didn't get it to improve sound quality in any way. I don't know what you are trying to get at. I am saving money on a digital cable because it is transmitting a DIGITAL SIGNAL. In my opinion, it doesn't matter HOW HIGH quality you get, it will be the same. A cheap Acoustic Research coaxial cable has GREAT connectors and good build quality, and that all you really need in a digital cable. I don't know what you are trying to get at, but a digital signal is a digital signal. It's 1's and 0's. We can all have our own opinions._


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *souperman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I spent the money on the cable to get a sturdier cable because the stock was so bad and was about to break anyways and it did not cost very much. I didn't get it to improve sound quality in any way. I don't know what you are trying to get at. I am saving money on a digital cable because it is transmitting a DIGITAL SIGNAL. In my opinion, it doesn't matter HOW HIGH quality you get, it will be the same. A cheap Acoustic Research coaxial cable has GREAT connectors and good build quality, and that all you really need in a digital cable. I don't know what you are trying to get at, but a digital signal is a digital signal. It's 1's and 0's. We can all have our own opinions._

 

I'm trying to warn you about really cheap cables... like 6 ft. optical for $3.
 I'm the last person who spend money on voodoo cable, e.g. I use a DIY 75Ohm cable with quality RCA plugs.
 But I had to buy an optical glass cable because it is too tricky to DIY and I wasn't sure about my quality to build it.

 I would never run down other peoples or your opinion about digital cable!
 As I wrote in several posts before: Digital cable should have good connectors, a good isolation and protective shielding.

 IMO it looks funny if there is someone who is spending a great amount of money on buying and selling headphones, buying opamps, spending time in opamps-rolling but doesn't try a $30 optical cable which is recommended by several head-fi members because it's too expensive.


----------



## Skylab

Really cheap optical cables can result in data errors. You don't need expensive ones, but really cheap ones ARE a bad idea.

 Also, optical does have one way in which it can sound better than coax - an optical cable can break a ground loop that a coax cable could cause or exacerbate.

 It used to be thought that optical cables resulted in higher levels of jitter. Some jitter can certainly be audible, and it never sounds good, but I'm not certain anyone ever actually proved that optical cables to result in more jitter than coax.


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *strologu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_coaxial, by a large margin._

 

Could you elaborate?


----------



## strologu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Could you elaborate?_

 

Sure (and this is to answer to all the ones who were asking why).
 First of all this avoid another conversion to optical (when you are using toslink). Second reason is that, if you have a decent usb/sdif interface, and you're using pc as source, you will have 10x less jitter then using toslink.
 For the cables, coaxials in this case: you don't need an expensive one, but a good one. What does it means? Canare RCA (the only ones calibrated for 75ohm) and a shielded RG-59 type cable (Belden made cheap and nice digital coaxial cables), at least of 1,5 mt lenght. The price for a cable like that is about 20€ shipped, if bought on ebay, half a price if home made.


----------



## Penchum

Maybe this will help smooth over the bumps in the coaxial or optical cable considerations. I have several of the "Glass" optical cables from eBay. They are excellent quality and work as advertised. I also have a 25 foot non-glass optical cable, for reaching from one side of my office to the other, along the wall. I also have several beefy and quality coaxial cables. I use all of these and I have never had a problem with any of them.

 All of them are quality builds, and that is what is "MOST" important. Cheap o's will eventually show their weakness, no matter which type they are.

 Cheap o's, does not mean lower cost. There are many inexpensive quality built choices out there and they will all get the job done nicely.


----------



## souperman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm trying to warn you about really cheap cables... like 6 ft. optical for $3.
 I'm the last person who spend money on voodoo cable, e.g. I use a DIY 75Ohm cable with quality RCA plugs.
 But I had to buy an optical glass cable because it is too tricky to DIY and I wasn't sure about my quality to build it.

 I would never run down other peoples or your opinion about digital cable!
 As I wrote in several posts before: Digital cable should have good connectors, a good isolation and protective shielding.

 IMO it looks funny if there is someone who is spending a great amount of money on buying and selling headphones, buying opamps, spending time in opamps-rolling but doesn't try a $30 optical cable which is recommended by several head-fi members because it's too expensive._

 

As I said, I'm not going for optical as it is more easily breakable than coaxial especially glass. I'm using coaxial which is cheaper and sturdier. The Acoustic Research coaxial cable I am purchasing is everything I need in a digital cable. They are very sturdy, have great connectors, and work just as well as more expensive coaxials. I have done my research, mind you, to find the cheapest cost effective way, with sacrificing quality. That is all. Like strologu and Penchum have both stated, a good quality coaxial cable can be had for a decent price as opposed to an optical which can get very expensive. If that's still funny to you, then laugh away. I spend my time purchasing headphones and selling them, and opamp rolling and selling opamps, but there comes a time when I need to start slimming down on my spending. That is why I have gone to the Zero, for my DAC and Amp for a BUDGET system. That is why I have chosen to gone the cheaper coaxial path than the optical.


----------



## kmel

Fine... we have to stop the cable discussion, it isn't related to the ZERO in any way.


----------



## sorcer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Fine... we have to stop the cable discussion, it isn't related to the ZERO in any way._

 

So (not to prolong this..), doesn't the Zero come with a cable? I thought it did. 

 Can any of you please let us know the cable "name and number" you are buying? 

 Thanks!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *souperman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As I said, I'm not going for optical as it is more easily breakable than coaxial especially glass. I'm using coaxial which is cheaper and sturdier. The Acoustic Research coaxial cable I am purchasing is everything I need in a digital cable. They are very sturdy, have great connectors, and work just as well as more expensive coaxials. I have done my research, mind you, to find the cheapest cost effective way, with sacrificing quality. That is all. Like strologu and Penchum have both stated, a good quality coaxial cable can be had for a decent price as opposed to an optical which can get very expensive. If that's still funny to you, then laugh away. I spend my time purchasing headphones and selling them, and opamp rolling and selling opamps, but there comes a time when I need to start slimming down on my spending. That is why I have gone to the Zero, for my DAC and Amp for a BUDGET system. That is why I have chosen to gone the cheaper coaxial path than the optical._

 

The AR coaxial is a perfect example of what I was talking about. Inexpensive but a quality build. Perfect! Everyone should remember, it is all about your needs. I would have bought the same cable as this one, for going around my office, except it wouldn't have fit my needs. It would be too large and difficult to get behind some of the stuff in here. So, I opted for the thinner plastic optical, a quality build that was easier to manipulate. It fit my needs.
 Thanks!!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sorcer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So (not to prolong this..), doesn't the Zero come with a cable? I thought it did. 

 Can any of you please let us know the cable "name and number" you are buying? 

 Thanks! _

 

The Zero comes with a reasonable quality plastic based optical cable. It gets the job done.


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sorcer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can any of you please let us know the cable "name and number" you are buying?_

 

Check this: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...ml#post3672717 if you prefer an optical glass cable.. also quality build and inexpensive.


----------



## souperman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Fine... we have to stop the cable discussion, it isn't related to the ZERO in any way._

 

Well it is related to the Zero in many ways since the Zero takes coaxial and optical and people were interested in what is the best that would fit their NEEDS. Don't want to say it, but you were the one who subtly attacked my own way of doing things 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. In all seriousness, I do a lot of research on things before I pay money for it, and it's not like I am very misinformed about this kind of stuff. I may not be the resident electrical engineer at a company, but I do know the main facts and am able to form my own opinion giving no grounds for someone to look down on my own ways in a negative light.

 Anyways, my Zero is coming in soon. Hopefully I'll love it.


----------



## oatmeal769

Penchum - 
 I read your outstanding review of the Little Dot MK V (?) as an awesome solid state amp. I liked the review so much that now I'm questioning my upcoming MK III Purchase. 

 I seem to have two sets of ears - one which wants absolute accuracy at the expense of warm sweetness, and one which likes the big lush fat tube sound.

 What I'm getting at is whether you think the Zero will provide the critical listening guy in me enough of a punchy and accurate solid state experience, to allow the kick back and groove guy to listen to the MK III guilt free?
 Apologies if this has been discussed, but again, this thread is huge.


----------



## souperman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sorcer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So (not to prolong this..), doesn't the Zero come with a cable? I thought it did. 

 Can any of you please let us know the cable "name and number" you are buying? 

 Thanks! _

 

It comes with an optical cable. I believe it is of cheaper quality. You can also get the Acoustic Research coaxial cable for cheaper for just as good quality. Depends on if you need an optical or not. I preferred the coaxial since I have room to route the cable. Some prefer the glass optical, and power to them.


----------



## sorcer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Check this: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...ml#post3672717 if you prefer an optical glass cable.. also quality build and inexpensive._

 

Thanks. I can't seem to get to the particular post you reference in the link - I tried searching for the post # (3672717) but that didn't work either - I just get redirected to the first post in this entire thread. 

 I wonder if this thread may be too big for the forum software or something. I've had other problems too, and I'm on a fat pipe at work with a fast workstation. It takes 20 seconds for the thread to re-load when I move around much e.g., to different sub-threads, and I have to switch Display Modes sometimes if things slow down too much - waa waa waa. 

 Anyway, if you can tell me the poster's name and date, I'll try that. Thanks again!


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sorcer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyway, if you can tell me the poster's name and date, I'll try that. Thanks again!_

 

Here it is:

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered these "glass" optical cables a few days ago. They were recommended by a fellow HeadFi'er who's opinion on such things I take without question. Take a look: eBay Store - Unique Products Online: GLASS Toslink Cables: 6' 6 ft GLASS TOSLINK DIGITAL OPTICAL CABLE - Premium

 Not too bad a price!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pencham - 
 I read your outstanding review of the Little Dot MK V (?) as an awesome solid state amp. I liked the review so much that now I'm questioning my upcoming MK III Purchase. 

 I seem to have two sets of ears - one which wants absolute accuracy at the expense of warm sweetness, and one which likes the big lush fat tube sound.

 What I'm getting at is whether you think the Zero will provide the critical listening guy in me enough of a punchy and accurate solid state experience, to allow the kick back and groove guy to listen to the MK III guilt free?
 Apologies if this has been discussed, but again, this thread is huge._

 

I think it is possible. Before I bought the MKV, I was listening to my tube amps through the Zero, and when I wanted to listen to SS, I'd plug straight into the Zero's headphone amp. It was nice to be able to listen either way. If you are doing the same thing with a MKIII, I don't think you'll be disappointed. If you do this for a few months, and the Zero's headphone amp isn't doing it for you, then you'll know to save a little and pick up a MKV.

 Having both SS & tube amps isn't a crime either. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I often find that having SS and tube amps will fulfill my every listening mood. I'm sure I am not alone on this either.


----------



## tuximus

Hello,

 First of all, I must thank all of you for this awesome thread and turning me on to a truly great sounding DAC/amp combo! Phew, this is magnificent!

 The issue I have noticed, and correct me if I am wrong and this is expected behavior:
 Input: Apple Mac G5 Tower, SPDIF Optical (with included cable)
 Output: Internal DAC -> Internal Headphone Amp
 Issue Noted: The light under "Optical" is dim when using the internal preamp at low or high levels, output wattage does not seem to matter. The light will change brightness when I unplug the cable (brighter) or when the amp is turned off. When playing music, the optical light brightness changes a small amount (both more and less). Every other light on the unit remains the same brightness.

 I have not been able to test the coaxial input, but its light has always been brighter (since I received it three days ago).

 Is this normal? Has anyone else noticed this? The sound does not seem to waver, so I suppose I might have dodged a problem here, but I would be interested to know what causes this.

 Thank you!


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think it is possible. Before I bought the MKV, I was listening to my tube amps through the Zero, and when I wanted to listen to SS, I'd plug straight into the Zero's headphone amp. It was nice to be able to listen either way. If you are doing the same thing with a MKIII, I don't think you'll be disappointed. If you do this for a few months, and the Zero's headphone amp isn't doing it for you, then you'll know to save a little and pick up a MKV.

 Having both SS & tube amps isn't a crime either. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I often find that having SS and tube amps will fulfill my every listening mood. I'm sure I am not alone on this either. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Is the performance of the two (MK V and Zero) comparable, or does the MK V give a significant step up in performance over the Zero? I ask because your review of the Zero's audio quality is about as glowing as the Mk V review.
 Thanks!


----------



## Penchum

I honestly hadn't paid any attention when switching around. I'll check it out after a while and get back. Ow, and Congratulations on the Zero! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just realized I have done the resistor mod to both of my Zero's, so they are dim all the time now! Someone else will have to check...


----------



## sorcer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here it is:_

 

Thanks! Anybody know the bend radius on these cables? IOW, I'd like to buy the longer 12' cable and leave part of it wrapped up unless I need the length. If I gather most of it together into 12" loops, that should be OK, right? Odd question, I know...


----------



## CountChoculaBot

When ordering free samples from Linear Technology, what should I put for intended application? I'd rather not get rejected and have to pay for all these opamps


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tuximus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Issue Noted: The light under "Optical" is dim when using the internal preamp at low or high levels, output wattage does not seem to matter. The light will change brightness when I unplug the cable (brighter) or when the amp is turned off. When playing music, the optical light brightness changes a small amount (both more and less). Every other light on the unit remains the same brightness._

 

Welcome... that's really weird. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So if you remove the optical cable the front LED "optical" lights brighter? And only this LED, not the power LED on the front.
 Hmm... I tried it here, but no change of brightness. If I switch on the headphone amp all the front LEDs are going slightly darker.

 Technical speaking: The amp takes current from the power supply and the supply voltage is lowered which results into a lower current for the LEDs.

 It is possible that the ZERO takes too much current if a digital signal is applied. But then the power LED should be going darker, too.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the performance of the two (MK V and Zero) comparable, or does the MK V give a significant step up in performance over the Zero? I ask because your review of the Zero's audio quality is about as glowing as the Mk V review.
 Thanks!_

 

The Zero's headphone amp is very good. The MKV is extremely excellent. Sometimes, a picture is worth a thousand words so check this out:

 Zero's headphone amp (blown up):





 MKV headphone amp:





 There is a wide margin between the two, and there should be. What is sweet about the Zero is that it provides a great upgrade path. Use it as a DAC and SS headphone amp now, save up some cash, buy the headphone amp you always wanted to have, and use the Zero as the DAC to drive it with. That amp you buy might just be the MKV!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sometimes, when I don't want to turn on a bunch of equipment to listen to some music, I'll just use the Zero's headphone amp. It sounds great and is no slouch. All other times, I'll be using the Zero as a DAC, to feed any number of amps here in my Lab/Home Office. Just having the flexibility to choose, is worth it.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sorcer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks! Anybody know the bend radius on these cables? IOW, I'd like to buy the longer 12' cable and leave part of it wrapped up unless I need the length. If I gather most of it together into 12" loops, that should be OK, right? Odd question, I know..._

 

Four to Five inches, I think. It is on the eBay add, or it used to be...


----------



## tuximus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I honestly hadn't paid any attention when switching around. I'll check it out after a while and get back. Ow, and Congratulations on the Zero! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just realized I have done the resistor mod to both of my Zero's, so they are dim all the time now! Someone else will have to check... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thank you, and for your review! I must say, it was a refreshing sight (and perhaps inspiring) to see your candid comments and rather objective review of this item.

 As I refreshed this page, I realized that the LED went totally dead... so it is my belief that it came with a bad LED. No way this thing is going back to HK and back, I'll just live with the fact that the LED doesn't emit photons or replace it eventually 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hope you all are enjoying your Zero DAC as much as I am!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tuximus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you, and for your review! I must say, it was a refreshing sight (and perhaps inspiring) to see your candid comments and rather objective review of this item.

 As I refreshed this page, I realized that the LED went totally dead... so it is my belief that it came with a bad LED. No way this thing is going back to HK and back, I'll just live with the fact that the LED doesn't emit photons or replace it eventually 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hope you all are enjoying your Zero DAC as much as I am!_

 

Thanks for the kind remarks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It always makes me feel good to know I have helped someone. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It would be fairly easy to open up the Zero and take a peek at that LED, without disturbing much of anything.
 Have a good one!!


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Zero's headphone amp is very good. The MKV is extremely excellent. Sometimes, a picture is worth a thousand words_

 

Great comparison, thanks! I just today ordered a MKIII, guess I'll just start saving up again...


----------



## Fremen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Welcome... that's really weird. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So if you remove the optical cable the front LED "optical" lights brighter? And only this LED, not the power LED on the front.
 Hmm... I tried it here, but no change of brightness. If I switch on the headphone amp all the front LEDs are going slightly darker.

 Technical speaking: The amp takes current from the power supply and the supply voltage is lowered which results into a lower current for the LEDs.

 It is possible that the ZERO takes too much current if a digital signal is applied. But then the power LED should be going darker, too._

 

more precisely:

 The four front LEDs are powered directly by the SM894051 MCU chip.
 This microprocessor is powered by a 5V power supply (the headamp by another completly separeted -15/+15V power supply).
 The MCU handles the 3 push buttons on the front and depending on your choice select the optical or coaxial input, drives the correspondind LEDs, connects the DAC output to the headamp by activating a relay. Driving LEDs requires just a few mA, driving a relay requires more.
 The MCU power protection is a simple 100 ohms resistor which limits the intensity in the MCU circuitry in case of shortcut (very cheap but efficient protection).
 And here is the dim LEDs trick: the more intensity the MCU needs, the less voltage it has (because of this resistor). When the MCU activates the preamp relay, the voltage on the MCU decreases a little, making the LEDs less bright (because it drives them too)...
 The good news? No effects on the sound quality. Just a feeling of "cheap" engineering.

 But who really cares? Just close your eyes and enjoy the music


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great comparison, thanks! I just today ordered a MKIII, guess I'll just start saving up again..._

 

Actually, you'll like having the MKIII first. Get some "tube" time under your belt, save some bucks, then when you get a MKV, you'll be in audio heaven.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fremen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_more precisely:

 The four front LEDs are powered directly by the SM894051 MCU chip.
 This microprocessor is powered by a 5V power supply (the headamp by another completly separeted -15/+15V power supply).
 The MCU handles the 3 push buttons on the front and depending on your choice select the optical or coaxial input, drives the correspondind LEDs, connects the DAC output to the headamp by activating a relay. Driving LEDs requires just a few mA, driving a relay requires more.
 The MCU power protection is a simple 100 ohms resistor which limits the intensity in the MCU circuitry in case of shortcut (very cheap but efficient protection).
 And here is the dim LEDs trick: the more intensity the MCU needs, the less voltage it has (because of this resistor). When the MCU activates the preamp relay, the voltage on the MCU decreases a little, making the LEDs less bright (because it drives them too)...
 The good news? No effects on the sound quality. Just a feeling of "cheap" engineering.

 But who really cares? Just close your eyes and enjoy the music 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

How are you liking your Zero and MKV combo? I love mine. Even with so many amps here, I still find time to listen to it frequently.


----------



## Fremen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How are you liking your Zero and MKV combo? I love mine. Even with so many amps here, I still find time to listen to it frequently. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I like my Zero and MKV combo very much 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. The MKV has now been used for more than 150 hours. Compared to the Zero headamp (with OPA627's+LM4562's which is my favorite combo) everything is more precise, separated, more ...real. It makes really a big difference.
 But I have to say that, depending on my mood, I sometimes prefer to use the Zero headamp. With the Zero I can "feel" the drums whereas with tke MKV I find myself more "seeing" them. Well... not sure someone will understand me


----------



## fl00r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CountChoculaBot* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When ordering free samples from Linear Technology, what should I put for intended application? I'd rather not get rejected and have to pay for all these opamps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I've ordered some samples from them too and I put in 'amplification'.


----------



## rpveld

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fremen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I like my Zero and MKV combo very much 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. The MKV has now been used for more than 150 hours. Compared to the Zero headamp (with OPA627's+LM4562's which is my favorite combo) everything is more precise, separated, more ...real. It makes really a big difference.
 But I have to say that, depending on my mood, I sometimes prefer to use the Zero headamp. With the Zero I can "feel" the drums whereas with tke MKV I find myself more "seeing" them. Well... not sure someone will understand me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

My Zero has left Hong Kong, so hopefully I will get it in the next 10 days
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Since I have the MKV and HD 650, like you do, and you like that combo with the Zero I sure do want to try that .
 I already have the OPA627's but I am not sure what LM4562 to get.
 Do I need one or two, or one dual or two with a an adapter.
 Please enlighten me


----------



## Fremen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rpveld* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Zero has left Hong Kong, so hopefully I will get it in the next 10 days
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Since I have the MKV and HD 650, like you do, and you like that combo with the Zero I sure do want to try that .
 I already have the OPA627's but I am not sure what LM4562 to get.
 Do I need one or two, or one dual or two with a an adapter.
 Please enlighten me
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

LM4562s are dual opamps(like OPA2604 and NE5532 which are the stock opamps). If you want to put them in the headamp section, you will need two of them, as there are two NE5532 to replace.
 But if you connect your MKV to the zero, the LM4562's won't be of any use because they are bypassed when you don't use the headphone output or the preamp function of the Zero.
 I have to say that the OPA627+LM4562 combo in the Zero (which is my favorite when using the zero as a standalone) doesn't seem to be the most commonly recommended as beeing the best one... just a matter of taste


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fremen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just a feeling of "cheap" engineering._

 

And cheap soldering... tuximus's LED is dead, it doesn't get current from the MCU.

 Thanks for the explanation, never seen a circuit with this cheap 100 Ohm MCU protection up to now.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fremen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I like my Zero and MKV combo very much 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. The MKV has now been used for more than 150 hours. Compared to the Zero headamp (with OPA627's+LM4562's which is my favorite combo) everything is more precise, separated, more ...real. It makes really a big difference.
 But I have to say that, depending on my mood, I sometimes prefer to use the Zero headamp. With the Zero I can "feel" the drums whereas with tke MKV I find myself more "seeing" them. Well... not sure someone will understand me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Just like I was trying to describe in my review. I love precision at that level very much. You are right about the Zero's headphone amp too. It is more "in your face and shake your boots". I have a second set of OPA627's coming so I can setup my other Zero like the first one. I may even try the LM4562's in the head amp again, just to see if (after all this time) I like it better than the LT1364's. I have come to the conclusion though, that having the OPA627s in the DAC is "best" all around for the DAC output. Every amp I drive with the Zero's DAC, loves those 627's.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rpveld* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Zero has left Hong Kong, so hopefully I will get it in the next 10 days
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Since I have the MKV and HD 650, like you do, and you like that combo with the Zero I sure do want to try that .
 I already have the OPA627's but I am not sure what LM4562 to get.
 Do I need one or two, or one dual or two with a an adapter.
 Please enlighten me
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fremen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LM4562s are dual opamps(like OPA2604 and NE5532 which are the stock opamps). If you want to put them in the headamp section, you will need two of them, as there are two NE5532 to replace.
 But if you connect your MKV to the zero, the LM4562's won't be of any use because they are bypassed when you don't use the headphone output or the preamp function of the Zero.
 I have to say that the OPA627+LM4562 combo in the Zero (which is my favorite when using the zero as a standalone) doesn't seem to be the most commonly recommended as beeing the best one... just a matter of taste 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I guess that means there are three of us with that same combination.


----------



## rpveld

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fremen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LM4562s are dual opamps(like OPA2604 and NE5532 which are the stock opamps). If you want to put them in the headamp section, you will need two of them, as there are two NE5532 to replace.
 But if you connect your MKV to the zero, the LM4562's won't be of any use because they are bypassed when you don't use the headphone output or the preamp function of the Zero.
 I have to say that the OPA627+LM4562 combo in the Zero (which is my favorite when using the zero as a standalone) doesn't seem to be the most commonly recommended as beeing the best one... just a matter of taste 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks Fremen, it is clear to me now. I did mean I want to try it in the Zero as DAC/AMP without the MKV, just for fun.
 Most of the time it will be the Zero in combination with the MKV.
 But when I get my AKG K701, the Zero alone might be a good combination I would like to try. I also might want to enter in the world of Tube Amp's and get me a MK III for the AKG K701

 @Penchum:
 It was your review that made me decide to get the MKV..
 And you are right about the MKV ( I love it) so I assumed you are right about the Zero too.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rpveld* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Fremen, it is clear to me now. I did mean I want to try it in the Zero as DAC/AMP without the MKV, just for fun.
 Most of the time it will be the Zero in combination with the MKV.
 But when I get my AKG K701, the Zero alone might be a good combination I would like to try. I also might want to enter in the world of Tube Amp's and get me a MK III for the AKG K701

 @Penchum:
 It was your review that made me decide to get the MKV..
 And you are right about the MKV ( I love it) so I assumed you are right about the Zero too.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yep, it's a great combo.


----------



## Seba

Here you can find pictures of my slightly modded Zero (dimmed leds, Neutrik RCA's in the back). If you are wondering those blocks between Zero and LD, they are MDF-wood so that Zero won't heat up so much.


----------



## fizmax

Hi, guys. I'm going to order this incredible device. Can you tell me where can I get these DACs and opamps or maybe I can just ask Lawrence to replace stock chips by something better before sending?


----------



## mADmAN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mADmAN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey guys...just thought id share my ZERO mods...

 i have no idea about electronics... so i got someone to do it for me.... heres a list of mods that he did (accordingto him). the guy has a modded Zhaolu so hes very familiar with the internals as the Zero share basically the same internals as a Zhaolu.

 1. Diode Bypass (reduce noise)
 2. Stability and Noise killing mod for digital section (PS bypass replaced with Silver Mica)
 3. Ground loop breaker mod (better caps)
 4. More capacitance for the main analog stage, from 4400uF to 6600uF
 5. More capacitance for the digital stage with Silmic II parallel, from 2000uF to 2330uF and bypass.
 6. Cap replacement on analog output stage
 7. Film cap replacement with german Wimas near the clock, DAC and supply lines.

 personally...i cant tell the difference...coz i never did an AB test between modded vs stock... though i know ill be able to tell the difference if i do an AB. i dont have pix of the mod though...will add them when i have a chance to take pix (aka when i stop being lazy).

 current setup is ESI Maya44 Coaxial -> Canare 75ohm Coaxial cable (forgot model) + Neutrik RCA -> Zero -> Beyer DT990 '05.

 opamp is stock at the DAC level but i have OPA627 coming in soon and will put that into the DAC.

 on stock opamps...i love it...the soundstage is MUCH wider than the setup in my sig. plus the mids actually jumped out at me. another thing i like is that the highs on the DT990 is tamed even at stock, unmodded condition.

 now i have 2*OPA2107 in the headamp section. mids has become recessed again...but this is due to the fact that the opamps made the sound very airy... still enjoyable though.. and has a slightly wider soundstage. gonna put back the stock opamps when i actually get off my backside....i want them mids as i listen mostly to metal.

 i also have another OPA627 coming in later on... so final setup would probably be 2107 in DAC and 627s in headamp. has anyone tried this yet? how does it sound???_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK, thanks. Keep us posted..._

 

as promised...here are the pix of the modded internals of the ZERO... cant really remember much...and i dont really know what to take pix of...so i just snapped what i knew and also the board at different angles in case anyone knows what to look for.

 according to my friend theres also mods that had to be done on the under side of the board (no pix...not gonna have any) due to lack of space on the top. so........ enjoy the pix.






























 and also a pic for those planning on the OPA627 into their ZERO's DAC...





 anyway...in case anyone wants stock internal pix (for comparison or whatever)... ive posted a bunch of them HERE


----------



## rpveld

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fizmax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, guys. I'm going to order this incredible device. Can you tell me where can I get these DACs and opamps or maybe I can just ask Lawrence to replace stock chips by something better before sending?_

 

You could PM SOUPERMAN, that's where I bought most of mine.
 Or you could try : diykits if Souperman doesn't have what you want.
 From what I have read Lawrence is expensive with his opamps.
 Besides Souperman is very quick with responding and shipping.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mADmAN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_as promised...here are the pix of the modded internals of the ZERO... cant really remember much...and i dont really know what to take pix of...so i just snapped what i knew and also the board at different angles in case anyone knows what to look for.

 according to my friend theres also mods that had to be done on the under side of the board (no pix...not gonna have any) due to lack of space on the top. so........ enjoy the pix.
_

 

Where is your headphone amp board? Or was it removed?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seba* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here you can find pictures of my slightly modded Zero (dimmed leds, Neutrik RCA's in the back). If you are wondering those blocks between Zero and LD, they are MDF-wood so that Zero won't heat up so much._

 

I like the Neutrik's in the back! I wonder if they make a shorter stemmed one for close in applications like this? I have my MKIVse parked on top of one of my Zeros too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 No spacer yet, just the feet. I have often thought about this same sized equipment coming out of China...almost like it is a new "standard" or something. I'd love to have a nice 3 or 4 piece stack, with the tube amp on top!


----------



## tuximus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And cheap soldering... tuximus's LED is dead, it doesn't get current from the MCU.

 Thanks for the explanation, never seen a circuit with this cheap 100 Ohm MCU protection up to now._

 

Likewise, thank you for the explanation. I am uncertain what the deal with that is, but the sound becomes better and better as I let it burn in (fantastic, I may say). I started out wondering a little about the sound, but I stuck with the results of the reviews and I am _very_ happy that I did so. For ~180USD, this thing is a steal with a modest amp included.

 It's unfortunate that the LED went out - I have not actually opened it up to see if it is bad soldering, but I have a feeling it could actually have been a bad LED, and the soldering is fine. The cheap MCU would explain why the lights dim (especially a feeble and dying LED). Otherwise, let the good tunes roll!


----------



## mADmAN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where is your headphone amp board? Or was it removed?_

 

its there... i just didnt post up pix of it coz nuttin was done to the amp board other than replacing the stock opamps with 2*OPA2107s.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seba* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here you can find pictures of my slightly modded Zero (dimmed leds, Neutrik RCA's in the back). If you are wondering those blocks between Zero and LD, they are MDF-wood so that Zero won't heat up so much._

 

I have a suggestion for your Zero. You can get it one of these knobs from parts conneXion (Head-Fi Sponsor):






 They are: KNOBS- 64392 Solid Brass - matte silver, 6mm - shaft diameter with Allen/socket screw mount. In there online catalog here: http://www.partsconnexion.com/catalo...sandknobs.html
 Click on "knobs" on the bottom tabs and then scroll down some. Even the chrome one might look good too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 One thing I like about them, is they are heavy and make the volume pot feel smooth to turn, and the finish is almost identical to the Zero's faceplate. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 You can see in my pic, their knobs have a real indented indicator, so you can tell where the volume knob is turned to, even in the dark, just by feeling the knob.


----------



## biko

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rpveld* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Zero has left Hong Kong, so hopefully I will get it in the next 10 days
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Since I have the MKV and HD 650, like you do, and you like that combo with the Zero I sure do want to try that .
 I already have the OPA627's but I am not sure what LM4562 to get.
 Do I need one or two, or one dual or two with a an adapter.
 Please enlighten me
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Got mine from Eddie Wuh: diykits Fast shipping and a reliable guy.
 You can check Nederlands - 's Werelds voornaamste distributeur van elektronische, elektrische en industriÃ«le (MRO) componenten en producten. | Farnell NL


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mADmAN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_its there... i just didnt post up pix of it coz nuttin was done to the amp board other than replacing the stock opamps with 2*OPA2107s._

 

Ow, Ok. It just seemed weird, all those shots from different angles and no amp board.


----------



## souperman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ow, Ok. It just seemed weird, all those shots from different angles and no amp board. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

OPA2107 works great in the headphone section. I just got mine. LOVING OPA2107's more than LT1364's and LT1469's!


----------



## rpveld

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *biko* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got mine from Eddie Wuh: diykits Fast shipping and a reliable guy.
 You can check Nederlands - 's Werelds voornaamste distributeur van elektronische, elektrische en industriÃ«le (MRO) componenten en producten. | Farnell NL_

 

It's all been taken care off (see: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/3976819-post2351.html)
 Maar bedankt voor de moeite.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *souperman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OPA2107 works great in the headphone section. I just got mine. LOVING OPA2107's more than LT1364's and LT1469's!_

 

Another to add to my list!


----------



## javaphones

I don't know if anyone's tried this combo, but after ~60 hrs of burn-in, I ditched all the opamps from the Zero and tried some I had on hand: opa627s, LM6172, LM4562, OPA2132, OPA2134, AD825.

 OPA627s were obviously great in the DAC section, but surprisingly, AD825 came very close. In fact, I'd say AD825 was a bit more musical for some of the Jazz stuff I have. I'll let it burn-in a little more with AD825 and see.

 As for the headamp section, a pair of OP275 hit the spot for my Grado's. I'm tapping my foot as I type this.


----------



## mADmAN

yeah i love the OPA2107s in the headamp section as well....

 makes everything more airy and has an mildly increased soundstage.

 only thing is that because opamp gives an airy sound sig. my mids are recessed again. with the stock opamps the mids just jumped out at me.

 this is very apparent to me especially since i listen to metal on a Beyer DT990


----------



## fizmax

I've just asked Lawrence to replace stock opamps to 627 for me to buy. And he said that 1 module of 627 is $61 !
 That means i have to spend 122$ only for DAC's opamps upgrade, but it doubles the product price. How do you go for this?!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fizmax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've just asked Lawrence to replace stock opamps to 627 for me to buy. And he said that 1 module of 627 is $61 !
 That means i have to spend 122$ only for DAC's opamps upgrade, but it doubles the product price. How do you go for this?!_

 

No, he means two OPA627's on an adapter installed in your Zero, for the $61.
 Module = 2 on the adapter.


----------



## fl00r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, he means two OPA627's on an adapter installed in your Zero, for the $61.
 Module = 2 on the adapter._

 

Still, you're better of with a very easy DIY and save $30. I bought them and they've arrived and waiting for the ZERO to come 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just e-mail Eddie for the following items: 
 627BP 2pc $11x2=$22 USD 
 1x single to dual socket $2.5 USD 
 $5 USD by registered air mail. 
 Total $29.5 USD for that


----------



## rpveld

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fizmax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've just asked Lawrence to replace stock opamps to 627 for me to buy. And he said that 1 module of 627 is $61 !
 That means i have to spend 122$ only for DAC's opamps upgrade, but it doubles the product price. How do you go for this?!_

 

Like I said http://www.head-fi.org/forums/3976819-post2351.html






 Hey Fl00r, I paid DIY US$ 1,- more


----------



## fl00r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rpveld* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Like I said http://www.head-fi.org/forums/3976819-post2351.html




_

 

And where did that wisdom came from? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...ml#post3934233









  Quote:


 Hey Fl00r, I paid DIY US$ 1,- more
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 

You're from Holland, that's for sure!


----------



## fizmax

Quote:


 Just e-mail Eddie for the following items: 
 627BP 2pc $11x2=$22 USD 
 1x single to dual socket $2.5 USD 
 $5 USD by registered air mail. 
 Total $29.5 USD for that 
 


 Can you tell me what is the difference between OPA 627 AM and BP, cause it's nearly double difference in the price. And why should I get single to dual socket if there are all needable sockets on the board?


----------



## fl00r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fizmax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can you tell me what is the difference between OPA 627 AM and BP, cause it's nearly double difference in the price. And why should I get single to dual socket if there are all needable sockets on the board?_

 

This one's for the experts: come on in Dave


----------



## biko

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rpveld* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Fl00r, I paid DIY US$ 1,- more
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

Did you get 627A or 627*B*? *B* is superior!


----------



## biko

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fizmax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can you tell me what is the difference between OPA 627 AM and BP, cause it's nearly double difference in the price. And why should I get single to dual socket if there are all needable sockets on the board?_

 

627A is inferior to 627B.
 The M and the P describe the mounting form: M=SOIC P=DIP.
 ZERO needs DIPs and dual ops. The 627B is a single op, you need 2 of it and an adapter.


----------



## rpveld

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *biko* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you get 627A or 627*B*? *B* is superior!_

 

I got the 627BP. You just made me double check


----------



## biko

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rpveld* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got the 627BP. You just made me double check
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Clever choice!


----------



## fl00r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *biko* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Clever choice!_

 

Hey, what did you expect, he's Dutch!


----------



## biko

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fl00r* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, what did you expect, he's Dutch! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

Help.... this thread is overflowed with Dutchness.


----------



## rpveld

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *biko* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Help.... this thread is overflown with Dutchness. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yep, throw in a *CHEAP* DAC/AMP and you see what happens


----------



## fl00r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *biko* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Help.... this thread is overflowed with Dutchness. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rpveld* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep, throw in a *CHEAP* DAC/AMP and you see what happens
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Actually I'm surprised of the absence of my fellow Dutch snapper-up's


----------



## Penchum

As long as you guys don't start clomping around in wooden shoes!


----------



## punk_guy182

Would it be a good idea to add the zero as an intermediary between my auzentech X-FI Prelude soundcard via the spdif or coaxial input to get better audio from my sennheiser HD 595? I mostly listen to music and movies and do some gaming on the side.


----------



## hxcxor

Alright. So after my audio channel problem, I hooked up my DJ mixer to and am using the ZERO in dedicated Preamp mode, and all is working well. Ordered some LT samples tonight, and then I suppose I'll continue troubleshooting. Any guesses to what the problem could be?


----------



## CountChoculaBot

How does the amp section compare to a CKKIII or PIMETA?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hxcxor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Alright. So after my audio channel problem, I hooked up my DJ mixer to and am using the ZERO in dedicated Preamp mode, and all is working well. Ordered some LT samples tonight, and then I suppose I'll continue troubleshooting. Any guesses to what the problem could be?_

 

I did some serious thinking about what you told us so far and now with the pre-amp mode working fine, I would "guess" that either something is not connected well in the head amp section, or your headphone connection wasn't clean. Big guess, I know. Keep eliminating possibilities and see where you end up. We'll help as much as we can.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CountChoculaBot* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How does the amp section compare to a CKKIII or a Mini^3?_

 

With Opamp changes to fit your tastes, most everyone here believes the headphone amp is much better than expected for this kind of application. I don't believe it has been A/B'd against those two specifically. Looking closer at what you are getting, tells a story though. It has lots of power, it is a dual mono design, it is quiet and dynamic, and it is independent of the DAC section. All of this leads to a very nice amp section that seems to work well with ALL kinds of headphones. I do believe it is a strong selling point for the unit as a whole. We have users who have this as their only head amp, and they are not disappointed in the least. Have a good one!


----------



## fizmax

Ha-ha! I did it, I've read all the thread, all the 240 pages! It took me all the weekend. Very interesting I got to say 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Now I'm pretty sure and ordering one for myself right now


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fizmax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ha-ha! I did it, I've read all the thread, all the 240 pages! It took me all the weekend. Very interesting I got to say 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Now I'm pretty sure and ordering one for myself right now_

 

That's amazing! I'm sure some of it couldn't be followed at all!


----------



## sdgserv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fizmax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ha-ha! I did it, I've read all the thread, all the 240 pages! It took me all the weekend. Very interesting I got to say 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Now I'm pretty sure and ordering one for myself right now_

 

For $139 How can you go wrong..I have not shut mine off in 4 days.
 It has been passing the signal to my Dared tube amp,,can't tell you how much it has improved the sound. The Zero is a keeper.
 My highest kudos to the OP for this forum


----------



## ascherjim

Rather than my even trying to wade through this entire thread, can someone recommend the current best place to purchase one of these amps for a purchaser like myself in the United States? Thanks.


----------



## andrew jc

You have to get it here ZERO 24/192 DAC D A CONVERTOR , HEAD FI AMP , BRAND NEW - eBay (item 330222119157 end time Mar-30-08 06:45:34 PDT)


----------



## ascherjim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *andrew jc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You have to get it here ZERO 24/192 DAC D A CONVERTOR , HEAD FI AMP , BRAND NEW - eBay (item 330222119157 end time Mar-30-08 06:45:34 PDT)_

 

Many thanks.


----------



## bada bing

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CountChoculaBot* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How does the amp section compare to a CKKIII or PIMETA?_

 

Op-amp rolling capabilities make a comparison a moving target. In no combinations of op-amp I've heard is the Zero's amp a match for a CKKIII or a Pimeta. The Zero's amp is a capable & fun desktop driver for a work station, but if you're expecting to beat out dedicated equipment for critical listening, you'll be disappointed. It is best to consider the Zero (especially the amp section) an upgrade to a sound card rather than a world beater. One particular advantage of the amp section over a sound card is the power available. The Zero has no problems driving cans that bog down a sound card or even a battery powered portable amp.

 The DAC section of the Zero is better than the amp section, so it can pay dividends to use the pre-out to better amplification, if that is what your question asks. You'll notice a lot of the posters in this thread use the pre-out run to other stuff, especially chinese tube amps. Used that way it's a very satisfying combination. I've run a Darkvoice 332 with a Zero quite a bit & mine is currently plugged into my M^3. Increases in quality above either of those setups are definately lots of $$$ for diminishing returns.


----------



## sdgserv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bada bing* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Op-amp rolling capabilities make a comparison a moving target. In no combinations of op-amp I've heard is the Zero's amp a match for a CKKIII or a Pimeta. The Zero's amp is a capable & fun desktop driver for a work station, but if you're expecting to beat out dedicated equipment for critical listening, you'll be disappointed. It is best to consider the Zero (especially the amp section) an upgrade to a sound card rather than a world beater. One particular advantage of the amp section over a sound card is the power available. The Zero has no problems driving cans that bog down a sound card or even a battery powered portable amp.

 The DAC section of the Zero is better than the amp section, so it can pay dividends to use the pre-out to better amplification, if that is what your question asks. You'll notice a lot of the posters in this thread use the pre-out run to other stuff, especially chinese tube amps. Used that way it's a very satisfying combination. I've run a Darkvoice 332 with a Zero quite a bit & mine is currently plugged into my M^3. Increases in quality above either of those setups are definately lots of $$$ for diminishing returns._

 

I think your comment is right on the money.........


----------



## pearljam5000

wow 200000000000 pages...i can't read it all, i'll go blind!(=
 did anyone try it with K-701's,is the amp strong enough? did anyone compare it with 0404 usb?
 i'm looking for a cheap source\amp for my new k-701, and this looks like a good option....


----------



## CountChoculaBot

Is the pre-amp function you speak of the RCA out? If I use it that way, would I be using the Zero pretty much as an external DAC? Or is using the Zero as a Pre-Amp something different, like plugging it into the headphone out?


----------



## Snicewicz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pearljam5000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_wow 200000000000 pages...i can't read it all, i'll go blind!(=
 did anyone try it with K-701's,is the amp strong enough? did anyone compare it with 0404 usb?
 i'm looking for a cheap source\amp for my new k-701, and this looks like a good option....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

if you give me some time Ill let you know. im going to order one in a day or two to use with 701s. Im not going to have an amp connected though just my iMac -> Zero -> K701s


----------



## sdgserv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CountChoculaBot* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the pre-amp function you speak of the RCA out? If I use it that way, would I be using the Zero pretty much as an external DAC? Or is using the Zero as a Pre-Amp something different, like plugging it into the headphone out?_

 


 Yes you would be using this an external dac


----------



## bada bing

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pearljam5000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_wow 200000000000 pages...i can't read it all, i'll go blind!(=
 did anyone try it with K-701's,is the amp strong enough? did anyone compare it with 0404 usb?
 i'm looking for a cheap source\amp for my new k-701, and this looks like a good option....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The Zero has plenty of power to run K-701's, but I'd watch how hot the chips run if you roll in LT1364 or LT1469 opamps into the amp section. Those chips run hot anyway and the 701 is current hungry, as opposed to voltage hungry can. The less current draw, the cooler the amp chips run (not an issue with all chips, just some of the popular options).

 Both are good budget DACs, butI preferred the Zero DAC to the 0404. I gave my 0404 to my nephew and still have my Zero. There is no comparison between the amp sections, the amp in the 0404 would be a joke used with 701's. The 0404 is USB input, which the Zero doesn't have. You'll have to buy a cheap USB>SPDIF converter if you don't have either co-axial or optical output to feed the Zero.


----------



## Snicewicz

I couldn't wait any more. I just ordered and paid for mine. I am excited to receive it as it is my first amp, and/ or DAC. Will try it out with the 701s i just ordered too. ;D. I feel as if it should be X-Mas.

 Edit: Just wondering, does it come with any cords or cables?

 Edit 2; NVM upon fearther reading 

 ATTACHMENT:
 ~1 X Power cord 
 ~1 X AT&T cable 　
 ~1 X manual
 ~1 X 0.5A fuse spare par


----------



## sdgserv

Congrats..Have some fun with it

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Snicewicz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I couldn't wait any more. I just ordered and paid for mine. I am excited to receive it as it is my first amp, and/ or DAC. Will try it out with the 701s i just ordered too. ;D. I feel as if it should be X-Mas.

 Edit: Just wondering, does it come with any cords or cables?

 Edit 2; NVM upon fearther reading 

 ATTACHMENT:
 ~1 X Power cord 
 ~1 X AT&T cable 　
 ~1 X manual
 ~1 X 0.5A fuse spare par_


----------



## Snicewicz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sdgserv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congrats..Have some fun with it_

 

Thanks, I will. I would just like to say Mr. Lawrence Chan responded to my email that I sent today and was very quick and polite with everything. I would definitely buy from him again. 

 <br><br>

 Now I just need to figure out to connect it to my iMac, i need what toslink to toslink? Or mini toslink to toslink? Not sure which optical cable


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CountChoculaBot* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the pre-amp function you speak of the RCA out? If I use it that way, would I be using the Zero pretty much as an external DAC? Or is using the Zero as a Pre-Amp something different, like plugging it into the headphone out?_

 

It actually has both functions! I'll explain. As a DAC and headphone amp, the Zero takes your optical or coaxial signal and either sends it to the RCA output for driving another amp, or if you have it selected, will send the signal to the internal headphone amp if your headphones are plugged in. Very simple and most likely 95% of it's use by us.

 As a pre-amp, the Zero takes your optical or coaxial signal and if no headphones are present in the jack and you have the pre-amp button selected, will send the signal through the volume control and out to the RCA jacks. This way, you have a volume knob controlled pre-amp output you could hook straight to any amplifier and control the volume from the Zero! I did this with my Pioneer SPEC4 amplifier and it worked great!

 It's a neat function that only a few might use, but it makes the Zero more flexible and helps it fit more situations.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bada bing* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Zero has plenty of power to run K-701's, but I'd watch how hot the chips run if you roll in LT1364 or LT1469 opamps into the amp section. Those chips run hot anyway and the 701 is current hungry, as opposed to voltage hungry can. The less current draw, the cooler the amp chips run (not an issue with all chips, just some of the popular options).

 Both are good budget DACs, butI preferred the Zero DAC to the 0404. I gave my 0404 to my nephew and still have my Zero. There is no comparison between the amp sections, the amp in the 0404 would be a joke used with 701's. The 0404 is USB input, which the Zero doesn't have. You'll have to buy a cheap USB>SPDIF converter if you don't have either co-axial or optical output to feed the Zero._

 

It has been recommended by a few in the thread, to buy some of those chip coolers and stick them on the Opamps if the LT1364 or LT1364 & LT1469 combination is used. This is probably good advice in the long run. However, I lost my hand written note to myself about where to buy them from, so maybe someone could provide a link?


----------



## fizmax

You can buy from souperman


----------



## Ash

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pearljam5000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_did anyone try it with K-701's,is the amp strong enough? did anyone compare it with 0404 usb?
 i'm looking for a cheap source\amp for my new k-701, and this looks like a good option....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I have to differ somewhat from what other have said based on my own experience.
 The ZERO does seem to drive the 701s pretty adequately. I have been using this combo with the stock op-amps.
 The downer is the lack of adequate bass, which is not necessarily ZERO's fault.
 The mids and the highs are fluid and engaging. The details are great.
 But the bass is no where near where it should be, even to a non-BASS head like me. Its very subtle and controlled. Might be good for some kinds of music...

 So be very careful with source and amp matching with 701s.


----------



## Ash

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It actually has both functions! I'll explain. As a DAC and headphone amp, the Zero takes your optical or coaxial signal and either sends it to the RCA output for driving another amp, or if you have it selected, will send the signal to the internal headphone amp if your headphones are plugged in. Very simple and most likely 95% of it's use by us.

 As a pre-amp, the Zero takes your optical or coaxial signal and if no headphones are present in the jack and you have the pre-amp button selected, will send the signal through the volume control and out to the RCA jacks. This way, you have a volume knob controlled pre-amp output you could hook straight to any amplifier and control the volume from the Zero! I did this with my Pioneer SPEC4 amplifier and it worked great!

 It's a neat function that only a few might use, but it makes the Zero more flexible and helps it fit more situations. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I have been using it in a similar fashion.
 Computer toslink > ZERO > H/K Stereo reciever > Dana 630 desktop speakers

 I always have the HPs plugged in. Whenever I want to listen thru the cans - I use the button on the ZERO, which cuts off the input to the H/K and into the HPs. I almost never use the volume knob on the Zero - its set at a comfortable listening level for the HPs.


----------



## Ash

The question I have for the veterans here is - Is there a combinations of Opamps that will help with the bass on the 701s? And I dont even want a SLAM just adequate bass.

 My 701s currently have about 200+ hours on them. The Zero has about 100 hours.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ash* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have to differ somewhat from what other have said based on my own experience.
 The ZERO does seem to drive the 701s pretty adequately. I have been using this combo with the stock op-amps.
 The downer is the lack of adequate bass, which is not necessarily ZERO's fault.
 The mids and the highs are fluid and engaging. The details are great.
 But the bass is no where near where it should be, even to a non-BASS head like me. Its very subtle and controlled. Might be good for some kinds of music...

 So be very careful with source and amp matching with 701s._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ash* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The question I have for the veterans here is - Is there a combinations of Opamps that will help with the bass on the 701s? And I dont even want a SLAM just adequate bass.

 My 701s currently have about 200+ hours on them. The Zero has about 100 hours._

 

Out of all of them I have tried, the best bass has been the OPA627's on a brown dog adapter in the DAC section, and LT1364s in the headphone amp. But, this has been with Senn's, so I caution as to its applicability. There are several folks here who have K701's, but I don't know if they use them full time or not. This is also the most expensive setup, due to the OPA627's.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ash* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have to differ somewhat from what other have said based on my own experience.
 The ZERO does seem to drive the 701s pretty adequately. I have been using this combo with the stock op-amps.
 The downer is the lack of adequate bass, which is not necessarily ZERO's fault.
 The mids and the highs are fluid and engaging. The details are great.
 But the bass is no where near where it should be, even to a non-BASS head like me. Its very subtle and controlled. Might be good for some kinds of music...

 So be very careful with source and amp matching with 701s._

 

Have you given consideration to replacing the K701s with a different headphone like the HD-600?


----------



## bada bing

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ash* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have to differ somewhat from what other have said based on my own experience.
 The ZERO does seem to drive the 701s pretty adequately. I have been using this combo with the stock op-amps.
 The downer is the lack of adequate bass, which is not necessarily ZERO's fault.
 The mids and the highs are fluid and engaging. The details are great.
 But the bass is no where near where it should be, even to a non-BASS head like me. Its very subtle and controlled. Might be good for some kinds of music...

 So be very careful with source and amp matching with 701s._

 

The stock op-amps, especially the pair of 5532 on the amp board are pretty much universally panned by anyone who's rolled anything else into the sockets. That isn't to say that the amp is a great match with 701's with other chips, but I'm sure it can be noticably improved.

 I have 627's in the DAC and LT1364 in the amp - but I don't use the amp section with anything but RS-1's and not with them very often.


----------



## sorcer

My wife called and The Box has arrived. I'll go home and take a quick look and after a couple errands I'll unpack and try it out with the laptop.

 Question: I have a Monster Cable RCA cable. This should work OK for S/PDIF, right? 

 More posting after first impressions with the HD-650s!


----------



## Skylab

Audio cables don't work well, if at all, as digital cables. They are generally the wrong impedance. A Video cable, if 75 ohm, will work fine.


----------



## Ash

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bada bing* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The stock op-amps, especially the pair of 5532 on the amp board are pretty much universally panned by anyone who's rolled anything else into the sockets. _

 

I am not sure I understand what that means?


----------



## Ash

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you given consideration to replacing the K701s with a different headphone like the HD-600?_

 

I might have to do that eventually!
 I really like the looks and the fit on the 701 though


----------



## sdgserv

Question: I have a Monster Cable RCA cable. This should work OK for S/PDIF, right? 

 Are you talking about a co-ax? If so yes..The Zero comes with a optical cable


----------



## sorcer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sdgserv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you talking about a co-ax? If so yes..The Zero comes with a optical cable_

 

The RCA works. I guess it is coax.


----------



## sdgserv

How do you have this set up?
 Computer > Zero >HPhones


----------



## sorcer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sorcer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_More posting after first impressions with the HD-650s!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

After three long weeks of waiting (3/7-3/24, is that less? , my little Zero arrived today. This is my first attempt at owning better than mid-fi audio.

 I had already bought the Sennheiser HD-650s (big splurge), and had enjoyed them a lot with just my 3G iPod and mostly MP3s.

 First thing I did was take the lid off. Had to see it for real after looking at Penchum's pics a million times. Looks fine; I think the xformer may be different - less diameter and taller, but I'm not sure. Anyway, it looks clean and red and pretty. I can post pictures later if anyone wants to see even more Zero guts.

 I tried an old DVD player's coaxial output with a Monster Cable RCA, but that didn't work, so I took the Zero over to the laptop, plugged the RCA into the S/PDIF plug, and pressed play on a bach goldberg variations/gould/zenph/binaural/Aria/foobar2k. Still nothing. Oops, "Optical" was pressed. Try the "Coaxial" button silly...there's something...wait, is the sound coming from the computer speakers? I'm hearing something like a sound stage... I lifted one side of the phones off my ears, and no, the sound is coming from the phones. wow. More volume. turn everything around me off. Send the kids to bed. Less light around the area (does anyone else find light distracting more than a bit?). More listening. Grabbed whatever was near: Dire Straits, Elivs (Costello), S&G, Toto, Chick Corea.

 To these tin ears, this is easily the best sound I've ever owned, and maybe the best I've ever heard, even compared to my buddy's $20K+ speaker system. 

 I am very happy. Can't wait to try out all my music.

 Penchum: thanks a lot for all your work on this thread; I'd not have bought the Zero if this thread with all your commentary had not been here.


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sorcer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Question: I have a Monster Cable RCA cable. This should work OK for S/PDIF, right?_

 

If you have of theses: Monster: Digital Coax you are fine.

 Otherwise:
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Audio cables don't work well, if at all, as digital cables. They are generally the wrong impedance. A Video cable, if 75 ohm, will work fine._

 

EDIT:
 Or these: Monster: Video Composite


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sdgserv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How do you have this set up?
 Computer > Zero >HPhones_

 

This question makes me think that some of you still don't know about ASIO and how this driver makes the difference when you connect the Zero to a PC.

 ASIO is able to bypass Windows Kmixer (a DirectSound filter which alters the digital signal) supplying the Zero with the ACTUAL digital signal straight from the soundcard via toslink/SPDIF.

 I use ASIO4ALL and Winamp along with its ASIO plugin, but any ASIO driver will do. The difference in sound quality is very apparent.

Audio Stream Input/Output - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 I now realized that perhaps some of you might prefer OPA627BP to LME49720 in the DAC because you don't use an ASIO driver and still listen to a not-so-bit perfect audio stream...

 Do not forget the basics before starting your opamp rolling or investing in some expensive gear!


----------



## sdgserv

My question was concerning his hardware setup..Not his software.


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sdgserv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My question was concerning his hardware setup..Not his software._

 

OK. Don't get me wrong, your question made me think and, even if I quoted you, what I suggested was meant to be told to all the readers of this thread...


----------



## sorcer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This question makes me think that some of you still don't know about ASIO and how this driver makes the difference when you connect the Zero to a PC. ..._

 

I had not heard of this. I'll check it out. Thanks.


----------



## BigSurSpoon

Just got my Zero. Sounds great. Thanks Penchum!


----------



## sorcer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sdgserv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How do you have this set up?
 Computer > Zero >HPhones_

 

yes. using spdif.


----------



## jpstereo

Hi Guys -

 Without having to read this entire thread over, I am looking for some quick help. Penchum, perhaps you can chime in. I want to use my laptop as a source but I only have USB available on the laptop (no optical or anything else.) I was thinking of purchasing a PC Digital Link II to hook up to the USB port of my laptop then go optical from the Link II into the Zero. Does this sound right? Will I be in business? Many thanks!


----------



## Frwkie

Same type of question for me: any suggestions for a good (and cheap, I'm Dutch 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) usb->optical a/o coax converter for connecting my notebook to the Zero? I'm a Mac user, by the way. What I've found by myself sofar is the pclk-u5 (Sony). Thanks in advance!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ash* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I might have to do that eventually!
 I really like the looks and the fit on the 701 though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I sure do understand. The only positive thing I could tell you, is that the Senn's, HD-580,600,650 are extremely comfortable for almost all shapes of heads. I have kind of a big noggin, and they work just fine, while my wife has a small noggin and she says that her HD-650s fit great. Have a good one!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jpstereo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Guys -

 Without having to read this entire thread over, I am looking for some quick help. Penchum, perhaps you can chime in. I want to use my laptop as a source but I only have USB available on the laptop (no optical or anything else.) I was thinking of purchasing a PC Digital Link II to hook up to the USB port of my laptop then go optical from the Link II into the Zero. Does this sound right? Will I be in business? Many thanks!_

 

If the Link II is the one I'm thinking of, you should be good to go. It acts as the sound card for your notebook, coverts and has optical out for using an external DAC like the Zero. The other side benefit is that with this setup, you'd gain a Solid State headphone amp, in the Zero. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Not to shabby!


----------



## rpveld

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I sure do understand. The only positive thing I could tell you, is that the Senn's, HD-580,600,650 are extremely comfortable for almost all shapes of heads. I have kind of a big noggin, and they work just fine, while my wife has a small noggin and she says that her HD-650s fit great. Have a good one! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I can second that. My wife uses a Senn HDR 45 wireless. It has hit our dog several times already when she reached down to give him a pad on the back.
 The poor thing now shies away from here when she is wearing them.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I wanted here to listen to some music yesterday and gave her my HD 650.
 Here first comment was not about the music, but about the nice fit of the HD 650.


----------



## littletree76

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Frwkie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Same type of question for me: any suggestions for a good (and cheap, I'm Dutch 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) usb->optical a/o coax converter for connecting my notebook to the Zero? I'm a Mac user, by the way. What I've found by myself sofar is the pclk-u5 (Sony). Thanks in advance!_

 

I am using latest model 20" iMac and I intend to purchase Zero DAC to replace existing Firestone Splitfire DAC for extra headphone output.
 Most modern Mac come with digital/analog combo jack labelled as headphone output. In other words, you do not need to have USB-to-optical converter at all to make use of any DAC with optical digital input. All you need is a optical cable with standard square Toslink connector on one end (for Zero) and 3.5mm mini-plug on the other end (for headphone output of any Mac) to connect between Mac and Zero.
 Better still optical interface provides 24bit/96kHz format instead of 16-bit format as seen in many USB audio interfaces. Further more optical interface is not subjected to CPU load as USB interface.


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *littletree76* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am using latest model 20" iMac and I intend to purchase Zero DAC to replace existing Firestone Splitfire DAC for extra headphone output.
 Most modern Mac come with digital/analog combo jack labelled as headphone output. In other words, you do not need to have USB-to-optical converter at all to make use of any DAC with optical digital input. All you need is a optical cable with standard square Toslink connector on one end (for Zero) and 3.5mm mini-plug on the other end (for headphone output of any Mac) to connect between Mac and Zero.
 Better still optical interface provides 24bit/96kHz format instead of 16-bit format as seen in many USB audio interfaces. Further more optical interface is not subjected to CPU load as USB interface._

 

...or an adapter like this one


----------



## Frwkie

Yes, that's true, but I own a rather old one (PB 12" 1.33 GHz), so, no standard optical out for me


----------



## scompton

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I sure do understand. The only positive thing I could tell you, is that the Senn's, HD-580,600,650 are extremely comfortable for almost all shapes of heads. I have kind of a big noggin, and they work just fine, while my wife has a small noggin and she says that her HD-650s fit great. Have a good one! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I have a slightly larger than normal head and my HD580 caused a lot of pain behind my ears. I've also read of them causing jaw pain. Mine eventually were OK, but only because I left them stretched over my PC tower case for 4 weeks without using them. It may not have taken the full 4 weeks, but I have enough headphones that some are always sitting and not being used. If the HD580 had been my only headphone, I would have sold them and bought something else.


----------



## jpstereo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If the Link II is the one I'm thinking of, you should be good to go. It acts as the sound card for your notebook, coverts and has optical out for using an external DAC like the Zero. The other side benefit is that with this setup, you'd gain a Solid State headphone amp, in the Zero. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Not to shabby! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Exactly what I'm shooting for! Thanks Penchum. Heres's a link to the PC Digital Link II: Audiomagus - high end not high priced


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rpveld* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can second that. My wife uses a Senn HDR 45 wireless. It has hit our dog several times already when she reached down to give him a pad on the back.
 The poor thing now shies away from here when she is wearing them.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I wanted here to listen to some music yesterday and gave her my HD 650.
 Here first comment was not about the music, but about the nice fit of the HD 650._

 

Ow no! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This is what happened to me too! You better get her some HD-650s soon! Once she's had them on her head, she'll be expecting a pair!


----------



## sorcer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...or an adapter like this one



_

 

I have a portable DVD player that has a "digital out" female jack (it is yellow), that looks like it may be optical, but is the size of a mini plug. Is the adapter you show for converting toslink to a plug like this? (I'm assuming I can get digital audio from a CD from this connection).

 Thanks.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sorcer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a portable DVD player that has a "digital out" female jack (it is yellow), that looks like it may be optical, but is the size of a mini plug. Is the adapter you show for converting toslink to a plug like this? (I'm assuming I can get digital audio from a CD from this connection).

 Thanks._

 

Yep, that's it. I have one on my optical cable when I use my old Sony with the yellow mini jack. Works great.


----------



## sorcer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep, that's it. I have one on my optical cable when I use my old Sony with the yellow mini jack. Works great. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks. Do you (or anyone) know of an inexpensive small or portable player (CD or DVD) that I could buy to use as a transport for my Zero?

 Thanks again for all your help. My Zero still sounds great!


----------



## Snicewicz

Adjustable Fiber Optic (Toslink) / 3.5mm Mini-Optical Cable, 3ft

 So will that do for my Zero to connect it to my iMac?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Snicewicz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Adjustable Fiber Optic (Toslink) / 3.5mm Mini-Optical Cable, 3ft

 So will that do for my Zero to connect it to my iMac?_

 

It should. It has the same head on it as the others in the pics earlier. Looks fancy for sure.


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sorcer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks. Do you (or anyone) know of an inexpensive small or portable player (CD or DVD) that I could buy to use as a transport for my Zero?

 Thanks again for all your help. My Zero still sounds great! _

 

There are so many DVD players... they are very cheap now. Most of them share the same chipset (Mediatek), the only difference could be build quality. My suggestion: go to the nearest mall and get the one that looks more durable to you. Those with optical out should be preferable, but then again, this is not always the case. Don't spend more than 40.00 bucks...

 This is the one I keep on my nightstand. It is quite small and I use it as a transport along with my custom made head amp and another DAC which I bought from Lawrence (upgraded with 2 OPA627BP on adapter).

 I know it doesn't look that cool but it sounds pretty nice and this is what matters to me. I rarely listen to the music in bed, but I wanted to have something at hand when this happens.

 Of course I keep some cooler stuff in other rooms, including the Zero. 





24bit/192KHz DAC DIY KIT , FULL ASSEMBLED KIT - eBay (item 330222455026 end time Mar-31-08 09:14:41 PDT)


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There are so many DVD players... they are very cheap now. Most of them share the same chipset (Mediatek), the only difference could be build quality. My suggestion: go to the nearest mall and get the one that looks more durable to you. Those with optical out should be preferable, but then again, this is not always the case. Don't spend more than 40.00 bucks...

 This is the one I keep on my nightstand. It is quite small and I use it as a transport along with my custom made head amp and another DAC which I bought from Lawrence (upgraded with 2 OPA627BP on adapter).





24bit/192KHz DAC DIY KIT , FULL ASSEMBLED KIT - eBay (item 330222455026 end time Mar-31-08 09:14:41 PDT)_

 

Is the knob on your build for changing inputs? I was looking at these and that was the only thing holding me back, the jumpers for changing inputs. Thanks!


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the knob on your build for changing inputs? I was looking at these and that was the only thing holding me back, the jumpers for changing inputs. Thanks!_

 

Actually that is just the volume knob of my headphone amplifier. I've built it about three years ago it's an Hexfet based one (no opamps, just four BF245B, two IRFD110 plus two IRFD9110 and a bunch of carefully selected resistors and capacitors), and it sounds very much tube-like.

 I don't need to switch between anything, as it's just the player, the amp and the DAC...


----------



## Seba

Today I got my OPA627BP's from Wu. I changed them to DAC section and put LT1364's in the headamp...

 I thought that I couldn't get better sound that I got with LT1364 when it was in DAC, but OPA627's sound noticeably better and I also like the LT1364's in the headamp very much. Definately my new favourite combo.

 Have to listen for only Zero and then test my new op-amps with LD.


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seba* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Today I got my OPA627BP's from Wu. I changed them to DAC section and put LT1364's in the headamp...

 I thought that I couldn't get better sound that I got with LT1364 when it was in DAC, but OPA627's sound noticeably better and I also like the LT1364's in the headamp very much. Definately my new favourite combo.

 Have to listen for only Zero and then test my new op-amps with LD._

 

I totally agree with you. but IMHO LME49720 is the best you can get.


----------



## Seba

Oh crap, I can't stop listening to music anymore. I put my LD on and the sound is again way beyond Zero's headamp but that doesn't mean that Zero's headamp isn't good, on the contrary.

 Are those LME49720 re-branded LM4562? I don't like LM4562 at all in my X-Fi. Makes music so sterile and highs are harsh. Fortunately music doesn't go throught that anymore because I use my X-Fi only as a transporter and upsampler.


----------



## rcofell

I've only made it though about the first 800 posts, so sorry if this has already been asked. 

 Does anyone know where to find one of these Zeros in Hong Kong and what the price would be? I've got a contact there and was thinking it might be cheaper if I go through him instead.

 Thanks in advance.


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seba* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh crap, I can't stop listening to music anymore. I put my LD on and the sound is again way beyond Zero's headamp but that doesn't mean that Zero's headamp isn't good, on the contrary.

 Are those LME49720 re-branded LM4562? I don't like LM4562 at all in my X-Fi. Makes music so sterile and highs are harsh. Fortunately music doesn't go throught that anymore because I use my X-Fi only as a transporter and upsampler._

 

Yes they are. I like them in the Zero, but not at all in my spare DAC, where I prefer OPA627, so I think it also depends on where you install them.


----------



## souperman

I have found another opamp other than the OPA2107 for headamp and DAC. The AD746 works so well in the DAC IMO. Very transparent, detailed, and very dynamic as well. I tried the AD746 in all 3 places as opposed to the OPA2107 in all 3 places. It's a bit different, but very good as well. I have a feeling mixing and matching the OPA2107 and the AD746 will do wonders. If I have time, I'll try it. I got a few more AD746's and some OPA2107's for cheap if some people want to purchase them from me. These two are very good alternatives for the OPA726BP which is so much more expensive. You can buy 3 for the price of nearly both OPA627's. Just shoot me a PM if you are interested. Now back to listening to my AD746's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I'll have to compare them to OPA2107's soon.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seba* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh crap, I can't stop listening to music anymore. I put my LD on and the sound is again way beyond Zero's headamp but that doesn't mean that Zero's headamp isn't good, on the contrary._

 

This is exactly how I have my two Zero's setup. (OPA627s in DAC, LT1364s in headphone amp) One Zero is almost exclusively for driving my MKIVse, which sounds absolutely amazing! I really like the full spectrum the OPA627s provide. I have some music that has bass notes under 40Hz, and they are there big time! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I also like to switch to the Zero's headphone amp sometimes, just to listen to nice SS sound for a change. Not all the time, but just when the desire hits me.


----------



## Seba

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is exactly how I have my two Zero's setup. (OPA627s in DAC, LT1364s in headphone amp) One Zero is almost exclusively for driving my MKIVse, which sounds absolutely amazing! I really like the full spectrum the OPA627s provide. I have some music that has bass notes under 40Hz, and they are there big time! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I also like to switch to the Zero's headphone amp sometimes, just to listen to nice SS sound for a change. Not all the time, but just when the desire hits me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That's why I changed the LT1364's for headamp because I remembered that you tested them in amp section too and liked it.

 LT1469 were good in headamp but they were little too dark or veiled for my taste.


----------



## supertrichi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Audio cables don't work well, if at all, as digital cables. They are generally the wrong impedance. A Video cable, if 75 ohm, will work fine._

 

Ciao,
 I bought this cable
eBay Store - Tartan Cable: Digital Audio Cables: Tartan Coaxial Digital Audio Cable, 3 foot, CL2 rated

 Cheap with good quality.

 P.S. I don't hear the difference between Optical cable vs. coaxial cable


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *supertrichi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ciao,
 I bought this cable
eBay Store - Tartan Cable: Digital Audio Cables: Tartan Coaxial Digital Audio Cable, 3 foot, CL2 rated

 Cheap with good quality.

 P.S. I don't hear the difference between Optical cable vs. coaxial cable
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Most have found that either one (optical or coaxial) works great with the Zero. No differences in SQ.


----------



## fl00r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Most have found that either one (optical or coaxial) works great with the Zero. No differences in SQ. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

But what if my laptop have neither coaxial nor optical 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I really have read most of this thread and still I'm (unpleasantly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) surprised that there's NO USB on the ZERO :'( 

 I guess a was blinded by the stellar review 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 No offence Dave


----------



## mADmAN

The ZERO is almost identical to the Zhaolu... even looks the same... heard the design was also based on the Zhaolu...so no surprises that it doesnt have a USB.

 i guess a cheap option would be to get a USB -> SPDIF converter. ive heard both good and bad about the converters though and that direct SPDIF from ur soundcard is best.

 if ur laptop has neither SPDIF formats, i guess the converter will definitely be needed. else a simple USB soundcard with SPDIF output should do the trick.


----------



## scompton

You could use something like this 

Laptop Sound Card - Audio Advantage Micro


----------



## LaZyKun

Just got my Zero unit 2day through the post, currently burning in and all I wanted to say is thanks to everyone here at HeadFi for the help and information.

 Indeed sorry about my wallet but damn its was money well spent hehe. Next on the hit list HD650/LD MKIII


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fl00r* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But what if my laptop have neither coaxial nor optical 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I really have read most of this thread and still I'm (unpleasantly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) surprised that there's NO USB on the ZERO :'( 

 I guess a was blinded by the stellar review 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 No offence Dave 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scompton* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You could use something like this 

Laptop Sound Card - Audio Advantage Micro_

 

I'll be darned! I could have sworn you said your notebook had a flexi-jack (both line out and optical combined in one) way back when! Scompton's idea is a good one for the price for sure. I think Diykits on ebay sells a silver looking one inexpensive also. Sorry!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mADmAN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The ZERO is almost identical to the Zhaolu... even looks the same... heard the design was also based on the Zhaolu...so no surprises that it doesnt have a USB.

 i guess a cheap option would be to get a USB -> SPDIF converter. ive heard both good and bad about the converters though and that direct SPDIF from ur soundcard is best.

 if ur laptop has neither SPDIF formats, i guess the converter will definitely be needed. else a simple USB soundcard with SPDIF output should do the trick._

 

This is one of those "someone said that someone else said in another thread about another site post" rumor-facts. It actually doesn't look very much like the Zhaolu and the design according to Lawrence is not from the Zhaolu. All of this was talked about earlier in this thread because of statements like this from previous Zhaolu owners who didn't like them very much (I think)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Its been quite a while ago. Some of the posts may have been removed, as the discussions were super heated by a person who keeps getting banned all the time and their posts kinda disappear each time they get banned.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LaZyKun* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got my Zero unit 2day through the post, currently burning in and all I wanted to say is thanks to everyone here at HeadFi for the help and information.

 Indeed sorry about my wallet but damn its was money well spent hehe. Next on the hit list HD650/LD MKIII 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Congratulations! I like your shopping list too! You are going to have one heck of a rig when you have it all put together!!


----------



## hxcxor

Just a little update from me:

 Got my new Opamps and threw 'em in the headamp board.

 1. When using the DAC as a simple DAC without the true preamp function, it works perfectly. Sounds great.
 2. When using the DAC as a true preamp, it goes wayward. The sound is balanced roughly 90% to the left channel.
 3. When using the headamp, the sound is balanced 100% to the left channel.

 I'm a bit baffled!


----------



## edguetzow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hxcxor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just a little update from me:

 Got my new Opamps and threw 'em in the headamp board.

 1. When using the DAC as a simple DAC without the true preamp function, it works perfectly. Sounds great.
 2. When using the DAC as a true preamp, it goes wayward. The sound is balanced roughly 90% to the left channel.
 3. When using the headamp, the sound is balanced 100% to the left channel.

 I'm a bit baffled!_

 

Hi! Which opamps did you get and try out. Maybe someone can tell you of similar results and what to try or not try!


----------



## hxcxor

The ol' LT sample pack - 1361, 1364, 1469. Unfortunately I'm pretty sure the probably lies elsewhere than the particular opamps I'm using though, as it's irrelevant which pair I have in the headamp. No matter which I use the problem remains the same.


----------



## LaZyKun

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congratulations! I like your shopping list too! You are going to have one heck of a rig when you have it all put together!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

lol its mainly due to your reviews  but seriously cheers dude, always wanted to get some serious headfi gear and xtremely pleased I took the plunge.

 qq - does anyone else's Zero have a tiny tiny hum when its on, not coming from the headphones but unit itself. Not any kind of major problem since you have to put your ear pretty near it to hear.


----------



## Spirit2

I got mine to day, but how can I make it work? I have tryed to connect it to my PC with coaxial and toslink and all I can hear is some flickering noise when I connect my headphones to the Zero. I have set my soundcard to use digital out.

 LaZyKun: Mine does also have that hum.


----------



## kmel

Zero with USB Mod prototype:

 I bought a nice USB analogue sound card cable with Burr Brown PCM2704 (used in Meier Audio Corda Opera). Stripped the analogue part to use the S/PDIF output.
 Had to removed the coaxial socket of the ZERO, because I didn't have the heart to put a hole into the chassis. Now the coaxial switch is the USB switch.
 Glued the USB board onto some resistors. Fits like a glove.

 Positive: No toslink jitter, USB conversion into Zero's receiver chip, no need for a sound card, plug-and-play
 Negative: only 32kHz, 44.1Khz and 48Khz sampling frequency

 Next: PCB with USB socket, no glueing. ZERO has to switch between optical, coaxial and USB.


 Pictures:


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hxcxor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The ol' LT sample pack - 1361, 1364, 1469. Unfortunately I'm pretty sure the probably lies elsewhere than the particular opamps I'm using though, as it's irrelevant which pair I have in the headamp. No matter which I use the problem remains the same._

 

Just a thought. The headphone amp is dependant upon which Opamp you have in the DAC, so maybe trying a different Opamp in the DAC will change the results you are having in the headphone amp, with trying different Opamps? Check it out and see.


----------



## fl00r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scompton* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You could use something like this 

Laptop Sound Card - Audio Advantage Micro_

 

Thanks for the suggestion.
 Just a question: if I use the Turtle Beach strictly as a converter from USB to digital, will it effect (e.g.: colour) the sound in any way?

 Furthermore: I wanted to buy it from Amazon but on the product page it says: 'Dance a GoGo : Sexy Nightclub Workout' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Amazon.com: Dance a GoGo : Sexy Nightclub Workout: Andrea Lin,Darko Mitrevski: Movies & TV

 Thanks,

 Ben


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fl00r* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the suggestion.
 Just a question: if I use the Turtle Beach strictly as a converter from USB to digital, will it effect (e.g.: colour) the sound in any way?

 Furthermore: I wanted to buy it from Amazon but on the product page it says: 'Dance a GoGo : Sexy Nightclub Workout' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Amazon.com: Dance a GoGo : Sexy Nightclub Workout: Andrea Lin,Darko Mitrevski: Movies & TV

 Thanks,

 Ben_

 

Thats weird! I also was a little alarmed at the reviews listed for it. Scroll down and check them out.


----------



## fl00r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thats weird! I also was a little alarmed at the reviews listed for it. Scroll down and check them out._

 

I've read some reviews about the Turtle but most of the people are using it as a external sound card. I can't find any information when used strictly as a converter/transport from USB to digital.

 Are there any other (cheap) solutions?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fl00r* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the suggestion.
 Just a question: if I use the Turtle Beach strictly as a converter from USB to digital, will it effect (e.g.: colour) the sound in any way?

 Furthermore: I wanted to buy it from Amazon but on the product page it says: 'Dance a GoGo : Sexy Nightclub Workout' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Amazon.com: Dance a GoGo : Sexy Nightclub Workout: Andrea Lin,Darko Mitrevski: Movies & TV

 Thanks,

 Ben_

 

Maybe something like this, with no 3D, with optical would be better?
Parts Express:Behringer UCA202 2-In/2-Out USB/Audio Interface S/PDIF Out


----------



## fl00r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe something like this, with no 3D, with optical would be better?
Parts Express:Behringer UCA202 2-In/2-Out USB/Audio Interface S/PDIF Out_

 

When I tried to order and checked out it came up with:

  Quote:


 Minimum Requirements:
 Sorry, this order does not meet the required minimum dollar amount for an international order.
 Please added $20.01 to your order. 
 

This is turning out to be a real soap


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fl00r* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When I tried to order and checked out it came up with:



 This is turning out to be a real soap 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Sorry! I had no idea they impose a minimum like that! Check the maker's site and see if they can do it.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe something like this, with no 3D, with optical would be better?
Parts Express:Behringer UCA202 2-In/2-Out USB/Audio Interface S/PDIF Out_

 

"High-resolution 48 kHz converters for premium audio quality" isn't very good right?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_"High-resolution 48 kHz converters for premium audio quality" isn't very good right?_

 

Looking around, it seems to be the "standard" for this kind of application and price point. I'm having trouble locating some with higher rates. Have you seen any??


----------



## Spirit2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Spirit2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got mine to day, but how can I make it work? I have tryed to connect it to my PC with coaxial and toslink and all I can hear is some flickering noise when I connect my headphones to the Zero. I have set my soundcard to use digital out.

 LaZyKun: Mine does also have that hum._

 

Can someone help me please?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looking around, it seems to be the "standard" for this kind of application and price point. I'm having trouble locating some with higher rates. Have you seen any??_

 

This one has a higher rate and price, but I know nothing about it. : http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=3719104


----------



## dacavalcante

Just ordered the Zero DAC from Lawrence...... but as I live in Brazil and customs are very slow here, it's more likely that I'll wait about 2 months for it....... oh well....

 Guess it will be a big step forward my current setup, right ?

 Where you guys bought the opa627, lt1364 and browndog adaptor ?
 Do you know any parts internet shop that has them all and accept paypal or creditcard and ship international ?



 ---------------------
 M-Audio Audiophile 2496 -> DIY Tangent Cmoy (opa2132) -> Senn HD555


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fl00r* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is turning out to be a real soap 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

M-AUDIO SONICA THEATER

 Here you can find someone from head-fi: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f43/wi...er-usb-229029/
 Ask him about the output quality... he wrote that it is bitperfect and 24/96.

 You can buy it here: M-AUDIO SONICA THEATER - Dutch International Cyberstore
  Quote:


 Shipping costs to Netherlands are 8 EUR, no matter what and how much you order. Minimum purchase is 25 EUR. All prices in our Dutch Tourist Information have been calculated with 19% VAT for Dutch customers, 30-day money-back guarantee and our 3-year warranty.


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looking around, it seems to be the "standard" for this kind of application and price point. I'm having trouble locating some with higher rates. Have you seen any??_

 

Yep... all these inexpensive USB devices are 48kHz max and mostly based on the PCM270x.
 For 24/96 you have to look into pro-audio-like devices, but they are more expensive. PCI devices are more inexpensive than USB/Firewire.


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where you guys bought the opa627, lt1364 and browndog adaptor ?
 Do you know any parts internet shop that has them all and accept paypal or creditcard and ship international ?_

 

Check out diykits for opa and adapter. It's possible that you can get the lt1364 from Linear as sample.


----------



## Snicewicz

Just curious how long did it take for everyone to get their Zero? I ordered mine about a week ago I expect to wait what, another 10 days to 2 weeks?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep... all these inexpensive USB devices are 48kHz max and mostly based on the PCM270x.
 For 24/96 you have to look into pro-audio-like devices, but they are more expensive. PCI devices are more inexpensive than USB/Firewire._

 

The PCLinkII on DIYKITS looks like an awesome product. Do you know anyone who has tried one?


----------



## malkit

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is exactly how I have my two Zero's setup. (OPA627s in DAC, LT1364s in headphone amp) One Zero is almost exclusively for driving my MKIVse, which sounds absolutely amazing! I really like the full spectrum the OPA627s provide. I have some music that has bass notes under 40Hz, and they are there big time! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I also like to switch to the Zero's headphone amp sometimes, just to listen to nice SS sound for a change. Not all the time, but just when the desire hits me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Penchum,I just wanted to thank you for all your excellent information in this thread.
 I took the plunge and ordered a Zero for my work desktop system on the strength of your excellent original review and was very happy with the results.
 Today I swapped the OE opamp in the dac section for the OAP627's you suggest and all I can say is "wow" it really sounds fantastic already and is still not anywhere near burnt in. I'm gonna get some LT1364's for the headphone stage a.s.a.p. too.
 Once again many thanks!


----------



## fl00r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_M-AUDIO SONICA THEATER

 Here you can find someone from head-fi: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f43/wi...er-usb-229029/
 Ask him about the output quality... he wrote that it is bitperfect and 24/96.

 You can buy it here: M-AUDIO SONICA THEATER - Dutch International Cyberstore_

 

Thanks for your help (and PM) kmel!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *malkit* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Penchum,I just wanted to thank you for all your excellent information in this thread.
 I took the plunge and ordered a Zero for my work desktop system on the strength of your excellent original review and was very happy with the results.
 Today I swapped the OE opamp in the dac section for the OAP627's you suggest and all I can say is "wow" it really sounds fantastic already and is still not anywhere near burnt in. I'm gonna get some LT1364's for the headphone stage a.s.a.p. too.
 Once again many thanks!_

 

Thanks for the kind words! It is nice to have a unit like the Zero give us excellent performance, but doesn't have the high price tag normally associated with such performance. I hope there are more items like this in the near future.


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The PCLinkII on DIYKITS looks like an awesome product. Do you know anyone who has tried one?_

 

To my knowledge it's an USB S/PDIF converter 48kHz max. And a coaxial/optical S/PDIF translator 96kHz max. But no DAC.






 Can you elaborate on your statement "awesome product". It's possible that I have to buy one, too.


----------



## sorcer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Snicewicz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just curious how long did it take for everyone to get their Zero? I ordered mine about a week ago I expect to wait what, another 10 days to 2 weeks?_

 

I got mine in less than 3 weeks. Works great.


----------



## Henmyr

Anyone now know if it's safe to use LT1028 in the dac? It gets very hot, but maybe that's the only problem? Can anything bad happen to the headphones?


----------



## BigSurSpoon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Snicewicz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just curious how long did it take for everyone to get their Zero? I ordered mine about a week ago I expect to wait what, another 10 days to 2 weeks?_

 

I got mine a week from ordering. Impressive.


----------



## arteom

Anyone tried the LT1358 in the DAC and LT1364's in the amp? This is perhaps my favorite combo of LT's, (1358,1364,1361,1469). It added depth to the soundstage, which was nice. Good details throughout. I really wanted to use the 1469 either in the DAC or in the amp but found it to be a bit dull, analytical, but the bass on that one goes deep.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To my knowledge it's an USB S/PDIF converter 48kHz max. And a coaxial/optical S/PDIF translator 96kHz max. But no DAC.






 Can you elaborate on your statement "awesome product". It's possible that I have to buy one, too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well, it "looks" like an awesome product. Well built at least. I didn't catch the 48kHz on the USB, but I thought it was interesting that it has balanced output. I'm not understanding how they do this with one 3 pin XLR, but maybe I'm missing something.??


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone now know if it's safe to use LT1028 in the dac? It gets very hot, but maybe that's the only problem? Can anything bad happen to the headphones?_

 

I think that was the one at first, we thought it was not unity gain stable, but later found out it was. Someone correct me if I'm wrong please. I think it should be added to the list of Opamps that really "needs" a stick on cooler to keep things from becoming a bother. I haven't seen any posts about problems with headphones that I can recall either.


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, it "looks" like an awesome product. Well built at least. I didn't catch the 48kHz on the USB, but I thought it was interesting that it has balanced output. I'm not understanding how they do this with one 3 pin XLR, but maybe I'm missing something.??_

 

XLR output is used with AES/EBU, the professional version of S/PDIF. AES/EBU with XLR is an 110 Ohm interface with cable length beyond coax/toslink. This I don't know for sure: 3 pins because one carries a non-inverted signal and the other an inverted signal, the third is ground.

 Does this device do a translation from S/PDIF to AES/EBU? There is more information in an AES/EBU data stream, but in the majority of cases it is only useful for recording instruments and not really important for playback.

 If your sound card can produce an AES/EBU stream you can also transport it via toslink/coaxial cable... and the ZERO will handle it.


----------



## Thomas_K

I have two ZERO's in the mail from Lawrence. They should be here Wednesday. Can't wait to listen to them. I have read most of this thread and took the advice of ordering samples from LT. I am pleasantly surprised by their excellent customer service. To the point that i almost feel guilty for not buying anything. Ordered two samples each of the 1469, 1364, 1361 and 1057. Three days later two 1469's were in my mailbox, and i figured they would only give me those. One day later the rest was delivered. And keep in mind, I'm in Norway. So that's three and four days delivery time by mail from California. I'm impressed.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_XLR output is used with AES/EBU, the professional version of S/PDIF. AES/EBU with XLR is an 110 Ohm interface with cable length beyond coax/toslink. This I don't know for sure: 3 pins because one carries a non-inverted signal and the other an inverted signal, the third is ground.

 Does this device do a translation from S/PDIF to AES/EBU? There is more information in an AES/EBU data stream, but in the majority of cases it is only useful for recording instruments and not really important for playback.

 If your sound card can produce an AES/EBU stream you can also transport it via toslink/coaxial cable... and the ZERO will handle it._

 

That's very interesting, but not up my more "simple" alley. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I would like to find a USB SP/DIF device that does a higher rate, but it looks like they cost a lot more. I'm not happy using my ASUS notebooks built in. It will work fine and if the processor gets busy, it stinks!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Thomas_K* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have two ZERO's in the mail from Lawrence. They should be here Wednesday. Can't wait to listen to them. I have read most of this thread and took the advice of ordering samples from LT. I am pleasantly surprised by their excellent customer service. To the point that i almost feel guilty for not buying anything. Ordered two samples each of the 1469, 1364, 1361 and 1057. Three days later two 1469's were in my mailbox, and i figured they would only give me those. One day later the rest was delivered. And keep in mind, I'm in Norway. So that's three and four days delivery time by mail from California. I'm impressed._

 

This is great! I won't be the only guy with two Zeros!!


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's very interesting, but not up my more "simple" alley. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I would like to find a USB SP/DIF device that does a higher rate, but it looks like they cost a lot more. I'm not happy using my ASUS notebooks built in. It will work fine and if the processor gets busy, it stinks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Although it doesn't go beyond 24bit/96KHz, this is one of the best, but unfortunately Creative Labs do not sell it anymore. I bought it a couple of years ago for my Thinkpad. Its performance is absolutely comparable to my Audigy 2. It has both coax and toslink output. Perhaps you may still find it somewhere if you're lucky enough.

Sound Blaster Audigy 2 NX - External Sound Card with 24-bit DVD-Audio, EAX ADVANCED HD and Dolby Digital EX for premium notebook audio


----------



## Penchum

pincellone;4020831 said:
			
		

> Although it doesn't go beyond 24bit/96KHz, this is one of the best, but unfortunately Creative Labs do not sell it anymore. I bought it a couple of years ago for my Thinkpad. Its performance is absolutely comparable to my Audigy 2. It has both coax and toslink output. Perhaps you may still find it somewhere if you're lucky enough.
> 
> Well, I do have the express slot not being used. I guess I could get a completely different sound card that way. I know the X-FI takes a load off of the processor, so that would seem to fit well into my situation.
> 
> ...


----------



## oatmeal769

Penchum;4020915 said:
			
		

> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> ...


----------



## Penchum

oatmeal769;4021005 said:
			
		

> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> ...


----------



## pincellone

oatmeal769;4021005 said:
			
		

> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> ...


----------



## oatmeal769

I have several links all of my research on my home PC (I'm at work now) I can supply... All seem rather contradictory - IE I don't see anyone who knows FOR SURE they can make Bit Perfect work.
 I have seen several references to the M-Audio stuff. I just wish I could make my stuff work without buying more stuff, LOL.


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My point is that I'm not so sure the X-Fi can be set to override the Kmixer, at least in XP. The other thing is that I game a LOT, and have never noticed any improvement in performance using the card, other than that it's EAX compatible, which is basically a bunch of reverb._

 

I found this in a Hydrogenaudio Forum:
  Quote:


 I would go with the Xfi, Because it is a much better card. If you are a guy who listens to music without EQ you will appreciate the X-fi. You can run it in "Audio Creation Mode" and set your master sample rate to 44.1, Then select "Bit-matched playback" which disables all EAX, EQ, and any other possible things that could alter or colorate the sound, allowing you bit-perfect, and flat sound.


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did see this, and will do more research this afternoon on it: JR.com: M-Audio Transit High Resolution Mobile Audio Upgrade in Sound Adapters:
 It seems at first glance to hold some promise. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Please read these customer reviews:
Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: M-AUDIO Transit High Resolution Mobile Audio Upgrade


----------



## pincellone

As promised in my previous post. Note that installing Asio4ALL and the asio winamp plugin will not change your pre configured soundcard software in any way...


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As promised in my previous post. Note that instaaling Asio4ALL and the asio winamp plugin will not change your pre configured soundcard software in any way...



_

 

This is my experience as well. - At least if the card does output 'bit perfect', the signal has been altered before it ever reaches the card. I have been unable to make Asio4All or Kernel Straming plugins work.


----------



## dacavalcante

I have an Audiophile 2496 right now...... Will it be any better to upgrade for a Juli@ ?
 Does it makes any difference as both can hadle digital bit perfect out with asio ?

 As I uderstand, the Zero DAC will upsample everything to 192khz anyway....... is that right ?


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would go with the Xfi, Because it is a much better card. If you are a guy who listens to music without EQ you will appreciate the X-fi. You can run it in "Audio Creation Mode" and set your master sample rate to 44.1, Then select "Bit-matched playback" which disables all EAX, EQ, and any other possible things that could alter or colorate the sound, allowing you bit-perfect, and flat sound._

 

I saw that too, and yes those settings are available, however when I look on the display of my Sony reciever, it tells me it is recieving a signal of 48K, rather than the original 44.1K. This seems to say that the K Mixer, or something else, is still changing the bit stream. I also get static when I attempt to play one of the test files I've downloaded.


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is my experience as well. - At least if the card does output 'bit perfect', the signal has been altered before it ever reaches the card. I have been unable to make Asio4All or Kernel Straming plugins work._

 

I meant to say that it does work if you enable it. Check the pictures of my previous post...


----------



## oatmeal769

I have enabled the Kernel Streaming plug-in through Winamp, still no dice. The Asio4All one caused a lot of stuttering, etc. So I uninstalled it.
 Your pix didn't make it through, can you check the link? I'd be interested in seeing if I missed something.


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I do have the express slot not being used. I guess I could get a completely different sound card that way. I know the X-FI takes a load off of the processor, so that would seem to fit well into my situation. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 More research!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

If you have an ExpressCard/54 slot, perhaps you like this: Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Audio Notebook Sound Card reviews - CNET Reviews.

 In the professional audio world USB audio devices aren't recommended, because USB has problems with jitter. Here you can find a nice explanation: Computer Audio Asylum - USB audio spec and jitter - John Swenson, November 11, 2005 at 14:51:46. Companies like RME, Apogee, Motu or Echo prefer Firewire and PCI/PCIe.

 If someone wants to produce consumer audio interfaces based on USB, you have to write your own code to work around the flaws of the USB protocol. E.g. Benchmark has a completely custom implementation in their DAC1.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Please read these customer reviews:
Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: M-AUDIO Transit High Resolution Mobile Audio Upgrade_

 

Ow well. Guess I'll keep looking. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for the heads up!


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have an Audiophile 2496 right now...... Will it be any better to upgrade for a Juli@ ?
 Does it makes any difference as both can hadle digital bit perfect out with asio ?_

 

If the Audiophile runs without any pops, clicks or glitches, why change it?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As I uderstand, the Zero DAC will upsample everything to 192khz anyway....... is that right ?_

 

I don't think that the CS8416 or the AD1852 does a sampling conversion.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you have an ExpressCard/54 slot, perhaps you like this: Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Audio Notebook Sound Card reviews - CNET Reviews.

 In the professional audio world USB audio devices aren't recommended, because USB has problems with jitter. Here you can find a nice explanation: Computer Audio Asylum - USB audio spec and jitter - John Swenson, November 11, 2005 at 14:51:46. Companies like RME, Apogee, Motu or Echo prefer Firewire and PCI/PCIe.

 If someone wants to produce consumer audio interfaces based on USB, you have to write your own code to work around the flaws of the USB protocol. E.g. Benchmark has a completely custom implementation in their DAC1._

 

Every time I look into USB, I run into the same difficulties. I keep coming back to the X-FI and this will make the third time. It seems like this might be the best answer for optical out to my Zero. I'm going to check a couple of last things on my notebook before buying it. I want to see if one of the pre-set profiles for audio on battery will give more processor to the built-in audio and not shudder and carry on so poorly.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have an Audiophile 2496 right now...... Will it be any better to upgrade for a Juli@ ?
 Does it makes any difference as both can hadle digital bit perfect out with asio ?

 As I uderstand, the Zero DAC will upsample everything to 192khz anyway....... is that right ?_

 

No, I don't believe so. Back in the thread (deep) this was looked at extensively and it wasn't up-sampling. For some reason, several of us thought that (in Vista) it did sound better if set to the highest setting. This wasn't the case with XP though.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I saw that too, and yes those settings are available, however when I look on the display of my Sony reciever, it tells me it is recieving a signal of 48K, rather than the original 44.1K. This seems to say that the K Mixer, or something else, is still changing the bit stream. I also get static when I attempt to play one of the test files I've downloaded._

 

This is with XP, correct? I have seen this before and I believe it is due to XP's KMixer. There is a "crap load" of postings about this over in the computer as a source forum. It is a headache to sniff out the correct way to do it, but some claim to reach bit perfect playback in XP.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If the Audiophile runs without any pops, clicks or glitches, why change it?_

 

I was wondering about the 192khz output..... because 2496 is only 96khz...
 Isn't 192khz better ? 
 I really don't know a lot about that, dispite of everything I've already read here.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't think that the CS8416 or the AD1852 does a sampling conversion._

 

So what is the 192khz of the DAC about? It's about receiving at max a 192khz signal and being able to convert it to anolog ? I was thinking that DACs upsampled everything to a certain frequency...

 I use to make upsampling to 96khz using foobar's PPHS (ressempler), so with Juli@ I would be able to do it to 192khz..... right ? Wouldn't it be better ?


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Check out diykits for opa and adapter. It's possible that you can get the lt1364 from Linear as sample._

 

I did tried to get LT1364 as you said...... but LT representative called me today asking about what was the sample about.....
 And I said "it's an academic research on amplifiers sound quality"
 and he said "I can't give it to you for a simple academic research. Samples must be for a large comercial production interest"

 Then I Was sad..... these things costs $19.00 each here.... And still have to wait about 3 to 5 weeks to get it. The same for OPA627..... $57.00

 I guess they're stealing us here, at Brazil.....


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is with XP, correct? I have seen this before and I believe it is due to XP's KMixer. There is a "crap load" of postings about this over in the computer as a source forum. It is a headache to sniff out the correct way to do it, but some claim to reach bit perfect playback in XP._

 

Yes, but I kind of doubt I'm getting bit perfect with Vista also. I've seen the same posts, as well as a few over at Hydrogen, and an MP3 board... I'll send you the links when I get home from work. Like I said, all have different schemes, and all seem to be less than absolute when it comes to being certain if it works.


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Then I Was sad..... these things costs $19.00 each here.... And still have to wait about 3 to 5 weeks to get it. The same for OPA627..... $57.00

 I guess they're stealing us here, at Brazil....._

 

Did you ask Mr. Wu at diykits?

 Two weeks ago:
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fl00r* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just checked his site and the OPA 627 BP are still listed for $11. A tremendous difference compared to the $90 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I sent him an email for the availability.....

 [edit] Got an email back from him (after 2 minutes!): 2 OPA627BP's + an adaptor + shipping = $29,50 [/edit]_


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you ask Mr. Wu at diykits?

 Two weeks ago:_

 


 Thanks Kmel!

 I'll ask him about it!


----------



## szlnk

I ordered my ZERO yesterday. I mainly want to use it as DAC, but I'm also interested if I can use the headphone amp with my 16 ohm Sennheiser cx95 earphones (I don't have any other headphones yet).


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is with XP, correct? I have seen this before and I believe it is due to XP's KMixer. There is a "crap load" of postings about this over in the computer as a source forum. It is a headache to sniff out the correct way to do it, but some claim to reach bit perfect playback in XP._

 

Some more links to further confuse and bedazzle...

FAQ: What is Bit-Perfect? - MP3Car.com

Envy24HT-S - The Definitive Source - AVS Forum

Bit Perfect Solutions For Vista - AVS Forum

DAC-less card with digital out - Hydrogenaudio Forums


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have enabled the Kernel Streaming plug-in through Winamp, still no dice. The Asio4All one caused a lot of stuttering, etc. So I uninstalled it.
 Your pix didn't make it through, can you check the link? I'd be interested in seeing if I missed something._

 

I fixed the problem with the pictures. Just click on them and you will get the full screenshots of my ASIO configuration.

 ASIO4ALL works for me but it will not affect the sound in any way if your software audio player can't enable ASIO output. For Winamp there is a great plugin developed by a Japanese guy, but there are others for other players such as the one for Foobar.

 You'll find my post here:

Review: ZERO 24 BIT/192KHz DAC/Headphone Amp/Pre-Amp - Page 251 - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

 Hope this helps...


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I fixed the problem with the pictures. Just click on them and you will get the full screenshots of my ASIO configuration._

 

Thanks, I Appreciate it, but yeah, I did that with Winamp - Both with Asio4All, and now Kernel Streaming. It's definitely taken hold of my machine, as now the wave volume slider and system sounds are not functional. However, I still get static when playing DTS files, and my receiver is still showing that I'm taking either 48K, or 96K depending on how I set the soundcard's digital output.
 My hypothesis at this point is that while these plug in's MIGHT enable bypassing of the Kmixer, only a select few cards are able to pass a truly untouched signal. In spite of what's been said here and elsewhere, I don't think the X-Fi Extreme Music is one of them.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks, I Appreciate it, but yeah, I did that with Winamp - Both with Asio4All, and now Kernel Streaming. It's definitely taken hold of my machine, as now the wave volume slider and system sounds are not functional. However, I still get static when playing DTS files, and my receiver is still showing that I'm taking either 48K, or 96K depending on how I set the soundcard's digital output.
 My hypothesis at this point is that while these plug in's MIGHT enable bypassing of the Kmixer, only a select few cards are able to pass a truly untouched signal. In spite of what's been said here and elsewhere, I don't think the X-Fi Extreme Music is one of them._

 

This was my experience in XP Pro and my X-Fi Extreme Music as well. When I upgraded to Vista Ultimate and loaded the latest drivers, it sounds better than it ever did with XP. But, I still get windows sounds and the like, so I know windows is still incharge of things. I just run the sliders for the windows sounds down to nothing and press on.


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks, I Appreciate it, but yeah, I did that with Winamp - Both with Asio4All, and now Kernel Streaming. It's definitely taken hold of my machine, as now the wave volume slider and system sounds are not functional. However, I still get static when playing DTS files, and my receiver is still showing that I'm taking either 48K, or 96K depending on how I set the soundcard's digital output.
 My hypothesis at this point is that while these plug in's MIGHT enable bypassing of the Kmixer, only a select few cards are able to pass a truly untouched signal. In spite of what's been said here and elsewhere, I don't think the X-Fi Extreme Music is one of them._

 

Maybe so. If this is the case, you might be better off with an "old" Audigy 2, it works like a charm in bypassing the kmixer. 

 BTW, I used to get static with DTS as well, until I installed the DTS plugin in Winamp.


----------



## edguetzow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks, I Appreciate it, but yeah, I did that with Winamp - Both with Asio4All, and now Kernel Streaming. It's definitely taken hold of my machine, as now the wave volume slider and system sounds are not functional. However, I still get static when playing DTS files, and my receiver is still showing that I'm taking either 48K, or 96K depending on how I set the soundcard's digital output.
 My hypothesis at this point is that while these plug in's MIGHT enable bypassing of the Kmixer, only a select few cards are able to pass a truly untouched signal. In spite of what's been said here and elsewhere, I don't think the X-Fi Extreme Music is one of them._

 

This may seem silly but I had similar experience on my XP machine when setting up my Chaintech. Everything was set correctly except for the master sound bar in the Audio Deck for the Chaintech. It MUST be set to maximum for both channels. Perhaps there is a similar situation with your card's volume control?

 Just a thought.


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This was my experience in XP Pro and my X-Fi Extreme Music as well. When I upgraded to Vista Ultimate and loaded the latest drivers, it sounds better than it ever did with XP. But, I still get windows sounds and the like, so I know windows is still incharge of things. I just run the sliders for the windows sounds down to nothing and press on. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yep. In my A/B comparisons, 'stock' WMP in Vista (my laptop through a USB) sounds better than WMP or Winamp in XP. (My Desktop through X-Fi) Even with Asio or Kernel Streaming plug-in's.
 There are also several output configurations available directly from WMP in Vista which aren't there in XP, which seem to have audible difference. 
 This is even before I get my MKIII, and ZERO. I can't wait to hear it with the better resolution and imaging these items will provide.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep. In my A/B comparisons, 'stock' WMP in Vista (my laptop through a USB) sounds better than WMP or Winamp in XP. (My Desktop through X-Fi) Even with Asio or Kernel Streaming plug-in's.
 There are also several output configurations available directly from WMP in Vista which aren't there in XP, which seem to have audible difference. 
 This is even before I get my MKIII, and ZERO. I can't wait to hear it with the better resolution and imaging these items will provide._

 

Ow, you are in for a treat! I absolutely love the OPA627s in the Zero's DAC, running my MKIII. Right now, I have the Sylvania GB-5654's (Gold Brand) in the MKIII, and this entire combination is outstanding. My HD-650s sound so great this way.


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe so. If this is the case, you might be better off with an "old" Audigy 2, it works like a charm in bypassing the kmixer._

 

How have you verified this? Do you have any means of verifying what the signal is once it arrives at your DAC?
 Example - If I plug my CD player into my reciever, it says 44.1K in the display before it plays. My PC's input reads as 48K or 96K if I set it as such from my soundcard's control applet. If I bypass all of that on my soundcard, I'm still getting 48K with the 'Kernel Stream' and ASIO plug ins. This is true even though I know the file was ripped as 16 bit 41K lossless.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW, I used to get static with DTS as well, until I installed the DTS plugin in Winamp._

 

Hmmm... I don't have this plug in, but I'm told that the test works precisely because the signal is a .wav file, and thus still a .WAV output. The theory is that even though it's a .wav, if your output is truly 'bit perfect', the DAC/Receiver will hear it as a DTS signal and decode it as such.
 In other words, if you need a DTS converter plug in to play the file, you are not achieving 'Bit Perfect'.
 Not to be harsh, but I've really done my homework on this. However as a caveat, all the information I've just typed is also based on theory. I don't even know for sure if this 'test' really is effective. I've yet to see any post anywhere on how anyone has made 'bit perfect' without any doubt using consumer gear. It seems it can be done using a dedicated PC set up with pro audio hardware and software, but that's a whole other ball of yarn...


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ow, you are in for a treat! I absolutely love the OPA627s in the Zero's DAC, running my MKIII. Right now, I have the Sylvania GB-5654's (Gold Brand) in the MKIII, and this entire combination is outstanding. My HD-650s sound so great this way. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The OPA627 is stock, right? I think I'm going to want to roll in a LT1324 (?) based on what I've read here.
 The Amp is here today, the Zero ought to be here in another day or two. I simply can't stand the anticipation!!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The OPA627 is stock, right? I think I'm going to want to roll in a LT1324 (?) based on what I've read here.
 The Amp is here today, the Zero ought to be here in another day or two. I simply can't stand the anticipation!!_

 

Umm, no. The stock Opamp is the dual OPA2604. The OPA627 is a single, so you have to have two of them on a browndog adapter. DIYKITS seems to have the best price on them right now. The current thinking is that it is better to burn-in the Zero with the stock Opamps (100hrs), before Opamp rolling. This will give you a "matured" stock sound reference for the Zero. Several of us have found that the 2 OPA627's on the adapter, in the DAC and LT1364's in the headphone amp, makes for a really nice combination. YMMV.
 Others are using different combinations, especially if they are using the headphone amp in the Zero as a dedicated headphone amp.


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How have you verified this? Do you have any means of verifying what the signal is once it arrives at your DAC?
 Example - If I plug my CD player into my reciever, it says 44.1K in the display before it plays. My PC's input reads as 48K or 96K if I set it as such from my soundcard's control applet. If I bypass all of that on my soundcard, I'm still getting 48K with the 'Kernel Stream' and ASIO plug ins. This is true even though I know the file was ripped as 16 bit 41K lossless.

 Hmmm... I don't have this plug in, but I'm told that the test works precisely because the signal is a .wav file, and thus still a .WAV output. The theory is that even though it's a .wav, if your output is truly 'bit perfect', the DAC/Receiver will hear it as a DTS signal and decode it as such.
 In other words, if you need a DTS converter plug in to play the file, you are not achieving 'Bit Perfect'.
 Not to be harsh, but I've really done my homework on this. However as a caveat, all the information I've just typed is also based on theory. I don't even know for sure if this 'test' really is effective. I've yet to see any post anywhere on how anyone has made 'bit perfect' without any doubt using consumer gear. It seems it can be done using a dedicated PC set up with pro audio hardware and software, but that's a whole other ball of yarn..._

 

I think I've read somewhere that the Audigy 2 upsamples any signal lower than 48KHz to that frequency or higher (up to 96KHz) before outputting it. What I meant was that ASIO bypasses the Kmixer, but of course it can't bypass the soundcard. However finding a soundcard which doesn't perform any upsample and it's ASIO4ALL compatible at the same time might solve your problems. 

 Bypassing the Kmixer made me happy already because the sound quality improved noticeably, but yes, what I get from the Audigy 2 is either a 48KHz or a 96KHz signal...

 My Panasonic DTS receiver decodes DTS output from Audigy 2 without any problems when connected directly to my PC through SPDIF/Toslink. If this can be considered bitperfect for you, than I can say it works in my setup.

 Of course, this can't be done when the Zero stands in the middle of this audio chain, as it can't decode DTS, BUT you can decode DTS internally (either through the Creative Software or with an audio plugin for Foobar/Winamp) and then feed the Zero with a stereo downmixed digital signal up to 96KHZ.

 The best thing to do would be trying the Winamp DTS plugin yourself. You can download it here:

DTS Audio Winamp Plugin -> Downloads -> in_dts.zip | Software - Digital Digest


----------



## szlnk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *szlnk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered my ZERO yesterday. I mainly want to use it as DAC, but I'm also interested if I can use the headphone amp with my 16 ohm Sennheiser cx95 earphones (I don't have any other headphones yet)._


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *szlnk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_



_

 

I'm not sure if anyone has tried 16ohm earphones with the Zero's headphone amp? Anyone?


----------



## souperman

Would SPDIF out of a stand-alone sound card be better than out of my onboard sound (Realtek Audio)?


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *souperman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would SPDIF out of a stand-alone sound card be better than out of my onboard sound (Realtek Audio)?_

 

I believe this is strictly hardware dependent. As there are plenty of differences among pc motherboards with integrated audio and soundcards, if you manage to get a spare soundcard try yourself. Don't forget to disable all the software bells and whistles and enable SPDIF digital out... If possible install an ASIO driver as well and choos a reliable player such as Winamp or Foobar.

 In my opinion ANY soundcard will affect audio quality anyway, so the quest for the bitperfect signal should consider this limitation.

 Anyway, this soundcard should do the job nicely and it's quite cheap:

Chaintech AV710 Reviews


----------



## Sludig

How is the SQ compares ibasso d1?


----------



## souperman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I believe this is strictly hardware dependent. As there are plenty of differences among pc motherboards with integrated audio and soundcards, if you manage to get a spare soundcard try yourself. Don't forget to disable all the software bells and whistles and enable SPDIF digital out... If possible install an ASIO driver as well and choos a reliable player such as Winamp or Foobar.

 In my opinion ANY soundcard will affect audio quality anyway, so the quest for the bitperfect signal should consider this limitation.

 Anyway, this soundcard should do the job nicely and it's quite cheap:

Chaintech AV710 Reviews_

 

Just wondering why a different sound card's will have different digital out. To my limited understanding, it's just digital being outputed, so why would the 1's and 0's be different? Sorry I'm still quite new to this.

Does the onboard sound chip quality matter if using SPDIF? - Yahoo! Answers

 That is where I got my idea about digital.


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *souperman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just wondering why a different sound card's will have different digital out. To my limited understanding, it's just digital being outputed, so why would the 1's and 0's be different? Sorry I'm still quite new to this.

Does the onboard sound chip quality matter if using SPDIF? - Yahoo! Answers

 That is where I got my idea about digital._

 

Yes, they are 0s and 1s but sometimes the sequence of these numbers (final digital output) might be different. Otherwise ANY soundcard would perform the very same job when passing data to a DAC. 

 In my experience this is not the case. Anybody else on this topic?


----------



## shinew

It is because of the jitter. I'm sticking with USB capable DAC.
 This is a good read -> nugent


----------



## 10068

*APOLOGIES are due before I write this reply. I know this has been answered previously in the 100+ pages of this Thread*, but:

 What's the best place to buy this unit? Is it still "supposed" to be purchased from Ebay? I'm not sure I trust the reliablity and shipping quality (who knows if it will even be well-packed and/or insured)

 If many have had good experience buying these from Ebay, I'm going to get one because it sounds like a freakin' sweet unit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I have used to WooAudio 3 and Gilmore V2 SE -- it'd be nice to have a HeadAmp / DAC that doesn't cost a newborn child to purchase 

 Thanks,
 -Sdu/DK


----------



## rpveld

You could email directly to 'lawrencechanbig@msn.com' and he will send you a PayPal invoice. But there is no difference in my opinion. It's the same seller as the one on Ebay.
 He will give you a tracking number, so you can follow the shipment.
 This is the way I did it , that is how I know it is at the customs since the 25th of March 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I know of no other seller, there was one but he turned out to be a scammer, he is no longer a member of Ebay.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *souperman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just wondering why a different sound card's will have different digital out. To my limited understanding, it's just digital being outputed, so why would the 1's and 0's be different? Sorry I'm still quite new to this.

Does the onboard sound chip quality matter if using SPDIF? - Yahoo! Answers

 That is where I got my idea about digital._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, they are 0s and 1s but sometimes the sequence of these numbers (final digital output) might be different. Otherwise ANY soundcard would perform the very same job when passing data to a DAC. 

 In my experience this is not the case. Anybody else on this topic?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shinew* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is because of the jitter. I'm sticking with USB capable DAC.
 This is a good read -> nugent_

 

I can only give an opinion on this topic. I have read thousands of posts here and elsewhere about it, and they have not provided a solid foundation to call them a FACT. There are experts on both sides of this thing, and this does nothing but strengthen my opinion. I am not on either side of this.

 While "Jitter" exists, it doesn't appear to be audible in 99.9% of audio at our level. Many wish to prevent it and spend money to prevent it, but they have never heard it. Many don't do anything about it, and they have never heard it either. Some push it like it was the most terrible thing that can happen to digital audio, but they haven't heard it either. A few claim to have heard it, but not in their system, so it is someone else's problem. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Knowing that audio problems can pile up, where one doesn't matter much, but many, one on top of the other, can create a situation that is audible, makes this issue very easy to deal with. Assume you don't have it. Get your system together, break it in, and enjoy the music. If you have an issue, you will hear it. If you don't hear it, then don't worry about it. Enjoy the music.

 A great deal of time and effort is spent on "what if" situations around here and I believe that time and effort is better spent on "what is" and enjoying the music. Just my 2 cents. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 IMHO, YMMV.


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can only give an opinion on this topic. I have read thousands of posts here and elsewhere about it, and they have not provided a solid foundation to call them a FACT. There are experts on both sides of this thing, and this does nothing but strengthen my opinion. I am not on either side of this.

 While "Jitter" exists, it doesn't appear to be audible in 99.9% of audio at our level. Many wish to prevent it and spend money to prevent it, but they have never heard it. Many don't do anything about it, and they have never heard it either. Some push it like it was the most terrible thing that can happen to digital audio, but they haven't heard it either. A few claim to have heard it, but not in their system, so it is someone else's problem. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Knowing that audio problems can pile up, where one doesn't matter much, but many, one on top of the other, can create a situation that is audible, makes this issue very easy to deal with. Assume you don't have it. Get your system together, break it in, and enjoy the music. If you have an issue, you will hear it. If you don't hear it, then don't worry about it. Enjoy the music.

 A great deal of time and effort is spent on "what if" situations around here and I believe that time and effort is better spent on "what is" and enjoying the music. Just my 2 cents. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 IMHO, YMMV._

 

Wise answer Dave!


----------



## oatmeal769

I think this is a good answer about jitter as well. Nothing to worry about until LOTS of other stuff is fixed first.

 I think there's more concern to be had about getting the untouched file through the operating system and audio software and into the DAC. This I believe is audible. Making no changes other than operating system (XP vs. VISTA) I can hear differences on nothing but my Sony reciever with my Senn's.
 From what I've read lately, a USB to TOSlink/Coax conversion running into an outboard DAC is the best way to do it. This means bypassing the soundcard completely. 
 What remains unclear to me is whether the file is untouched as it proceeds through the player, windows, hardware, etc. as it is converted to an optical or coaxial signal.
 Some seem to think my cheap Behringer 202 is fine, others seem to think other software and better USB converters are needed.
 P.S., To stay on topic, My ZERO DAC should be here today!!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think this is a good answer about jitter as well. Nothing to worry about until LOTS of other stuff is fixed first.

 I think there's more concern to be had about getting the untouched file through the operating system and audio software and into the DAC. This I believe is audible. Making no changes other than operating system (XP vs. VISTA) I can hear differences on nothing but my Sony reciever with my Senn's.
 From what I've read lately, a USB to TOSlink/Coax conversion running into an outboard DAC is the best way to do it. This means bypassing the soundcard completely. 
 What remains unclear to me is whether the file is untouched as it proceeds through the player, windows, hardware, etc. as it is converted to an optical or coaxial signal.
 Some seem to think my cheap Behringer 202 is fine, others seem to think other software and better USB converters are needed.
 P.S., To stay on topic, My ZERO DAC should be here today!!_

 

Well, I guess we know what you'll be doing! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 While I agree that the USB to TOSlink/Coaxial to outboard DAC is the "handiest" thing to do, I'm not entirely sold on the idea that USB should be bought and used instead of a built-in digital out. Most of the lower cost USB converters are USB 1.0 or 1.1, and there can be issues with the USB line getting too busy. I suppose if someone tried their built-in digital out and can't get it to behave, then the USB option would be worth spending additional monies on.

 I'm sure the software issue is driven by what plug-ins are available and considered to be the best, and what Operating System is being used. I run Vista, so even the Creative player does very well in it's stock configuration. XP seems to require more setup and a better player app.

 I think I would try the Behringer anyway. It may sound much better than you suspect. If not, you'll know! Let us know how all this is working.


----------



## souperman

I found another really good opamp for the headphone out section. The AD746 works really good. I think it's replaced my OPA2107's and LT1364's. Great extension, and very good separation. It's also very musical sounding at the same time! This is of course, compared to the Zero with OPA2107 and LT1364's inside.


----------



## mADmAN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_While I agree that the USB to TOSlink/Coaxial to outboard DAC is the "handiest" thing to do, I'm not entirely sold on the idea that USB should be bought and used instead of a built-in digital out. Most of the lower cost USB converters are USB 1.0 or 1.1, and there can be issues with the USB line getting too busy. I suppose if someone tried their built-in digital out and can't get it to behave, then the USB option would be worth spending additional monies on._

 

im not sold on the idea of a USB -> SPDIF converter either. a forumer i know (in another forum) had a bad experience with his with jitters etc and in the end he bought a Maya44 and uses coaxial out and it has been running without problems til now.

 as for built in SPDIF vs soundcard SPDIF... 

 i have a low end MSI LGA775 mobo with a VIA chipset.... i managed to get the digital SPDIF out PCI bracket and plugged it into the mobo and used that with my Zero at first. used it for music and also playing CS Source. no problems watsoever and even had decent volume. 

 soundcard SPDIF (im using ESI Maya44)...no difference in terms of sound quality to me..but the volume for the ESI is significantly lower (knob at same level). i also tend to get jitters in sound with CS Source. thought not that often but it still happens....no idea why though.

 and just to round it off....in terms of coaxial vs optical (both on the ESI Maya44)... no difference... ive tried plugging them both in at the same time and switching inputs via the front switch of the Zero. no difference


----------



## fl00r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*NOTE* I have an update for all Zero users. Thanks to other Zero users, the true "pre-amp" function (a volume controlled output feature) has been found.
 If you press the button for Phones and the green light comes on, this means that "IF" a headphone is plugged in, the volume knob works for the headphone amp. If you don't plug in a headphone and the green light is on, the volume knob works for the DAC output! It was discovered by accident. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you need further clarification, don't hesitate to PM me directly. Thanks!! Penchum._

 

This confuses me a bit.

 I have connected the ZERO's RCA out to my DarkVoice in.
 Now, I've got two possibilities:

 1. Green light on the ZERO is on: both volume control on the ZERO and the Darvoice control the sound volume.

 2. Green light on the ZERO is off: only the volume control on the Darkvoice effects the volume.

 From my limited knowledge the 2nd option is the 'true' pre-amp mode, no?

 If not, should I set the volume on the ZERO to max in the first configuration?

 Excuse my ignorance....


----------



## vorlonix

So i just bit on one of these from ebay. 

 Will it be better to use it as the head-amp, or pre-amp to my current amp which is a META42 driving a pair of DT770's and A900's?


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vorlonix* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So i just bit on one of these from ebay. 

 Will it be better to use it as the head-amp, or pre-amp to my current amp which is a META42 driving a pair of DT770's and A900's?_

 

I don't know what a META42 is, but the Zero's stock output is very nice for the price indeed.


----------



## vorlonix

META42 = old school DIY amp from years back.
META42 Headphone Amplifier
 i havnt followed the scene so i have no idea what's replaced it.


----------



## Snicewicz

I am still waiting on my Zero. Its shipped and its pending inspection from customs, they better not hurt it


----------



## LaZyKun

the waiting is hard but I can assure you its well worth it hehe


----------



## kwekeugene

Hey guys,

 I have the LT1364 in for my amps. They sound great but there's the heat issue. I can touch it at most for 2-3 seconds before pulling my fingers away.

 How about the heatsinks mentioned earlier? Does it help? 

FISCHER ELEKTRONIK | ICK SMD A 8 SA | Heatsinks | Semiconductor Accessories, Prototyping & Antistatic | Farnell UK


----------



## sdgserv

I want a new Nob..

 Some where in these 256 pages there is a link to a place that sells nobs. I have seen it.
 Any help would be appreaciated


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fl00r* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This confuses me a bit.

 I have connected the ZERO's RCA out to my DarkVoice in.
 Now, I've got two possibilities:

 1. Green light on the ZERO is on: both volume control on the ZERO and the Darvoice control the sound volume.

 2. Green light on the ZERO is off: only the volume control on the Darkvoice effects the volume.

 From my limited knowledge the 2nd option is the 'true' pre-amp mode, no?

 If not, should I set the volume on the ZERO to max in the first configuration?

 Excuse my ignorance....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hi!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yes, the #2 above is the line level output. Fixed. Never changes.
 #1 above, is a variable output using the volume knob on the Zero. Some stereo amplifiers, mono block types and vintage amps have only a fixed output, relying on the pre-amp to adjust the final output to the speakers. This is where the "variable pre-amp" option works the best. With headphone amplifiers, most have a built in volume control, so #1 doesn't help them much, if any.

 Using it either way is ok, just slightly confusing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm glad the option is there, for when I test different equipment. I can lower the output and bring it up as needed. For day to day listening enjoyment, I use #2 all the time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Both are clean and it doesn't seem to add noise, so this is a good thing.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sdgserv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I want a new Nob..

 Some where in these 256 pages there is a link to a place that sells nobs. I have seen it.
 Any help would be appreaciated_

 

I get my knobs from Parts ConneXion. There is a link over in the left hand sponsors add. They sell solid brass with several different coatings, gold, brushed grey, chrome and black.


----------



## circuithero

Where's the best place to get one now?


----------



## sdgserv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I get my knobs from Parts ConneXion. There is a link over in the left hand sponsors add. They sell solid brass with several different coatings, gold, brushed grey, chrome and black._

 


 Thank you... Thank you
 Is the one you got the smaller one? What diam..

 Also Penchum..I wanted to thank you for this thread and the review..My Zero has no been shut off since I received it. It really has enhanced the sound of my tube amps


----------



## Snicewicz

Well i got my zero yesterday but I havent had a chance to use it because I dont have the toslink to the mini optical cable. 

 Anyone know a store in the US that would carry the adapter or a cord? I really dont want to have to wait for shipping over the internet.


----------



## ascherjim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Snicewicz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well i got my zero yesterday but I havent had a chance to use it because I dont have the toslink to the mini optical cable. 

 Anyone know a store in the US that would carry the adapter or a cord? I really don't want to have to wait for shipping over the internet._

 

I think I encountered the same problem as you a few days ago (if I understand you correctly). I ordered my adapter from Headroom in Montana. They cost less than $2.00.


----------



## 10068

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I couldn't read a thing there. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

This is probably old news... but...

Translated version of http://www.tianyun100.com/cp.htm

 Google Translate for the win!


----------



## 10068

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After some deep consideration and figuring out how I want to bridge my digital equipment with my analog equipment, I came to realize that the Zero has really done an excellent job, so I have ordered a second unit. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Your sure this isn't FOTM-itis? lol


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sdgserv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you... Thank you
 Is the one you got the smaller one? What diam..

 Also Penchum..I wanted to thank you for this thread and the review..My Zero has no been shut off since I received it. It really has enhanced the sound of my tube amps_

 

The one I got was the: KNOBS- 64392 Solid Brass - matte silver, 6mm - shaft diameter with Allen/socket screw mount

 The matte silver finish is "almost" the same as the faceplate on the Zero. The size diameter is pretty good too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Here is a pic of it on my Zero:






 Thanks for the kind words too! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Have a good one!!


----------



## 10068

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here is a pic of it on my Zero:




_

 

Sexy


----------



## Snicewicz

Hmm your LEDs seem to be a lighter shade of blue than mine, could just be the camera, and I also have a different knob


----------



## magnetiq

mod to reduce brightness


----------



## ianp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magnetiq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_mod to reduce brightness 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I was looking at doing something to reduce the brightness a little. I assume it is no more than resistor(s) in series with the LEDs?

 It looks to be a fairly easy mod. Remove top cover, remove PSU, remove PCB with the LEDs on and put a resistor or two in line.

 Any more to it than that ?

 Thanks


----------



## biko

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Snicewicz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm your LEDs seem to be a lighter shade of blue than mine, could just be the camera, and I also have a different knob_

 

Look here, it's deep in the thread: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...ml#post3738991


----------



## Snicewicz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magnetiq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_mod to reduce brightness 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well, I like the bright, shiny colors


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Snicewicz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I like the bright, shiny colors 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I put up the pic of mine to show what the parts conneXion knob looks like on my Zero. The link and info is just above the pic.


----------



## ianp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *biko* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Look here, it's deep in the thread: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...ml#post3738991_

 

I just did the mod in about 30 mins using some 5.1Kohms resistors I had. Quite a marked difference. The sun is just setting, so I have yet to see what it is like in complete darkness.


----------



## Kalidor

OK... my Zero landed yesterday. I hooked it up between my CDP and the Original Master. I used a coaxial from the CDP into the Zero and then RCA outs from the Zero into the amp...

 Exactly what does the Zero do to the music?

 I don't know if I'm suffering from a bad case of "giddy new toy" syndrome, but I think that the music sounds a lot clearer and instrument separation has improved and vocals and instruments sound more natural...

 What exactly does a DAC do to the music? (I mean I know it converts digital signals into analogue)

 How does it improve the music??


----------



## diibadaaba

How quickly did your Zero's ship after payment had been sent?


----------



## pearljam5000

What's the final verdict of the ZERO+K-701 pairing?the amp has enough juice?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kalidor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK... my Zero landed yesterday. I hooked it up between my CDP and the Original Master. I used a coaxial from the CDP into the Zero and then RCA outs from the Zero into the amp...

 Exactly what does the Zero do to the music?

 I don't know if I'm suffering from a bad case of "giddy new toy" syndrome, but I think that the music sounds a lot clearer and instrument separation has improved and vocals and instruments sound more natural...

 What exactly does a DAC do to the music? (I mean I know it converts digital signals into analogue)

 How does it improve the music??_

 

Mostly, since it is a dedicated unit, it has a much better built DAC section. Even the stock Opamp in the DAC section is better than some output stages. It is all about doing a better job at converting your digital music to analog for output. What you are hearing, is the result of better processing. You will find that it does even nicer things for your music after it has "matured" for 100hrs. At that point, you may find that a different Opamp in the DAC section will work even better for your type of music and your system. Most Zero owners have found a better sounding Opamp for their setup. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Have fun burning in the Zero!


----------



## CountChoculaBot

Wow, I actually got samples from LT. I put in an order for 
 2 of
 LT1057
 LT1361
 LT1364
 LT1469

 on Sunday and today 2 LT1469 have come in. I'm going to assume they're going to send me the order in installments. I put in "Amplification" like the one guy said and it worked. I even left my job as Student/Professor and they still sent it, despite saying they won't send it for academic purposes.


----------



## Seba

I connected my iPod Nano (1st gen, 2GB) to my Little Dot straight using line-out connector. The sound is noticeably veiled and lifeless. It doesn't get my foot tapping. When I use X-Fi and Zero, I can separate the instruments, music is alot clearer and it has PRaT IMO.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seba* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I connected my iPod Nano (1st gen, 2GB) to my Little Dot straight using line-out connector. The sound is noticeably veiled and lifeless. It doesn't get my foot tapping. When I use X-Fi and Zero, I can separate the instruments, music is alot clearer and it has PRaT IMO._

 

Any of the older players will show their weaknesses like this. My Creative Vision 30G (first version), which was known for it's excellent sound back then, gets blown out of the water by both my Zune80 and X-FI to Zero. The Zune 80's sound chip is far superior and it really shows! Gotta love that X-FI to Zero setup! It makes for on hell of a source path!


----------



## ascherjim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any of the older players will show their weaknesses like this. My Creative Vision 30G (first version), which was known for it's excellent sound back then, gets blown out of the water by both my Zune80 and X-FI to Zero. The Zune 80's sound chip is far superior and it really shows! Gotta love that X-FI to Zero setup! It makes for on hell of a source path! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Penchum: Am curious. Which X-FI product are you using? I'm in the dark on this subject and technology.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ascherjim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Penchum: Am curious. Which X-FI product are you using? I'm in the dark on this subject and technology._

 

I have the Creative X-FI Extreme Music card in my desktop PC. I also installed the I/O drive for it, so I would have multiple digital outs. I ran a coaxial digital cable to my first Zero, and an optical digital cable out to my other Zero across the room. Both work wonderfully.


----------



## ascherjim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have the Creative X-FI Extreme Music card in my desktop PC. I also installed the I/O drive for it, so I would have multiple digital outs. I ran a coaxial digital cable to my first Zero, and an optical digital cable out to my other Zero across the room. Both work wonderfully. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Wow! What an impressive sounding (literally and figuratively) set-up. I'm really monitoring the wrong thread here, as I got a Little Doc MKII (rather than Zero) several weeks ago (principally as you know on your review), have it burned in (over 100 hours) and am enjoying it. Have recently ordered a BBE Sonic Maximizer VG360 to go with it, principally to help resolve my hearing loss at certain (hi-level) frequencies. On reading you last posting here, I was wondering if I wouldn't possibly have been better off with an X-FI product, but the BBE stands alone externally, which I think will suit my various needs better. (I chose BBE because it's in my iAudio7 and I am employing it there exclusively.)


----------



## oatmeal769

I'm coming up on 100 hours on my ZERO as well. I'd like to try OPA627s in DAC, and LT1364s in the headphone amp first. 
 I'd also like to try 1469 as DAC and 1361 in the amp section.

 I'm a little confused on how to get them though, can anyone point me in the right direction, and tell me what to do? Do I also need some kind of adapter? I really don't want to search 250+ pages of posts... Thanks!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ascherjim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow! What an impressive sounding (literally and figuratively) set-up. I'm really monitoring the wrong thread here, as I got a Little Doc MKII (rather than Zero) several weeks ago (principally as you know on your review), have it burned in (over 100 hours) and am enjoying it. Have recently ordered a BBE Sonic Maximizer VG360 to go with it, principally to help resolve my hearing loss at certain (hi-level) frequencies. On reading you last posting here, I was wondering if I wouldn't possibly have been better off with an X-FI product, but the BBE stands alone externally, which I think will suit my various needs better. (I chose BBE because it's in my iAudio7 and I am employing it there exclusively.)_

 

Ow, Ok. If you ever get to the point where you can run optical or coaxial out of your computer, the Zero is an excellent DAC to use for driving your MKII. There are Opamps that have additional high end emphasis that you could use in the Zero, to make up for some hearing losses. It would be quite possible to put the BBE between the Zero's analog output and the MKII's inputs. This would give you a huge amount of control over the signal before it is amplified by the MKII. Its and interesting idea for sure.


----------



## ascherjim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ow, Ok. If you ever get to the point where you can run optical or coaxial out of your computer, the Zero is an excellent DAC to use for driving your MKII. There are Opamps that have additional high end emphasis that you could use in the Zero, to make up for some hearing losses. It would be quite possible to put the BBE between the Zero's analog output and the MKII's inputs. This would give you a huge amount of control over the signal before it is amplified by the MKII. Its and interesting idea for sure. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

To be quite honest, I don't want TOO much control, because it all can get TOO confusing, complex and unwieldy. I like the idea of the BBE-unit's controls as there are only two knobs to adjust to regulate as you're listening, and readily change the correction for each separate album. I already have a dac - the Headroom Micro which so far seems to work fine with the Little Dot, and can accommodate coax, optical and usb inputs. (I use the usb with my computer, as my computer doesn't have a sound card with coax or optical lines out). Thanks for your comments, which are always enlightening.


----------



## szlnk

My Zero arrived today. I connected it to the optical out of my quite old Nforce2 motherboard (Abit NF7-S v2.0, with SoundStorm), but I can't get any sound from it except some noise. Am I missing something, or I got a defective unit?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *szlnk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Zero arrived today. I connected it to the optical out of my quite old Nforce2 motherboard (Abit NF7-S v2.0, with SoundStorm), but I can't get any sound from it except some noise. Am I missing something, or I got a defective unit?_

 

Check and make sure the built-in audio is enabled in the CMOS. Also, if it is, check the windows settings for audio and make sure they are correct. Another test method is to try a cd player or dvd player that have optical out.
 Chances are your Zero is fine.


----------



## rpveld

So I finally received my ZERO today.
 It took ages for customs to clear, but finally it arrived.
 I am glad to say that it works just fine technically.

 Off course I couldn’t resist to A/B it with the Beresford I already have. I know I should wait and let it burn in for a while but I just had to do it.
 I am only using the DAC part from both these DAC/Amps for now.
 In order to do the testing I used the Optical out from the soundcard to the ZERO and the Coax to the Beresford. They both are connected to my LD MK V.
 I don’t believe there is an auditable difference between Optical and Coaxial. (That’s my opinion, others may think different)
 For Head Phones I use my AKG K 701’s I just received from a other member of this board.

 I am listening to Daniel Barenboim on Piano.

 Now for the sound of both these Dac’s. 
 To be honest I don’t hear that much of a difference, if any I would say the ZERO is a bit brighter and has some more detail.
 Also there is a bit more Soundstage with the ZERO. For me the differences are very subtle.
 So for now I would vote in favor of the ZERO, although I wouldn’t call the Beresford a bad DAC.

 This is just a first impression of the ZERO, new out of the box.
 I must say it looks very promising and I can’t wait for it to burn in.
 I have several op-amps waiting and judging from previous posts I believe it to get even better.

 I am not an audiophile and don’t know all the right terms, but I do like my music to sound as good a s possible for my ears.
 Please keep this in mind when reading this first impression.


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rpveld* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have several op-amps waiting and judging from previous posts I believe it to get even better._

 

Can anyone help me find the op-amps I listed in my earlier post? Here is a copy of it: Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm coming up on 100 hours on my ZERO as well. I'd like to try OPA627s in DAC, and LT1364s in the headphone amp first. 
 I'd also like to try 1469 as DAC and 1361 in the amp section.

 I'm a little confused on how to get them though, can anyone point me in the right direction, and tell me what to do? Do I also need some kind of adapter? I really don't want to search 250+ pages of posts... Thanks!_


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can anyone help me find the op-amps I listed in my earlier post? Here is a copy of it:_

 

Sorry I missed this post. So far, it appears that DIYKITS has the best price on the OPA627's. For the LT's, their site has them. PM me if you run into trouble.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rpveld* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I finally received my ZERO today.
 It took ages for customs to clear, but finally it arrived.
 I am glad to say that it works just fine technically.

 Off course I couldn’t resist to A/B it with the Beresford I already have. I know I should wait and let it burn in for a while but I just had to do it.
 I am only using the DAC part from both these DAC/Amps for now.
 In order to do the testing I used the Optical out from the soundcard to the ZERO and the Coax to the Beresford. They both are connected to my LD MK V.
 I don’t believe there is an auditable difference between Optical and Coaxial. (That’s my opinion, others may think different)
 For Head Phones I use my AKG K 701’s I just received from a other member of this board.

 I am listening to Daniel Barenboim on Piano.

 Now for the sound of both these Dac’s. 
 To be honest I don’t hear that much of a difference, if any I would say the ZERO is a bit brighter and has some more detail.
 Also there is a bit more Soundstage with the ZERO. For me the differences are very subtle.
 So for now I would vote in favor of the ZERO, although I wouldn’t call the Beresford a bad DAC.

 This is just a first impression of the ZERO, new out of the box.
 I must say it looks very promising and I can’t wait for it to burn in.
 I have several op-amps waiting and judging from previous posts I believe it to get even better.

 I am not an audiophile and don’t know all the right terms, but I do like my music to sound as good a s possible for my ears.
 Please keep this in mind when reading this first impression._

 

Well, you don't have to be an "audiophile" to have a valid and worthwhile first impression. Many impressions are better coming from those who believe they are average users, because they are not as biased! I for one, appreciate your first impressions and look forward to any impressions you might have after burn-in. I'm sure other users who are looking at the Zero as a possible purchase, would appreciate your impressions as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Many here believe you are not an audiophile until you have a trained ear/mind. I would counter this with; "You are an audiophile if you love music, love the equipment and listen with your heart and mind." There is no magic line drawn that says today you are a user, a week from now you are an audiophile. It is more important to have a pinch of common sense to guide you, than some pre-determined goal set my others. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The fact that you can form an impression and understand it's complexities and do this with a "fair and unbiased" approach, makes you an audiophile by your actions. I bestow upon you the rank of audiophile. Stand and be recognized by your fellow audio nuts. God save the Queen! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 Hows that for starting your day? Now where did I put my coffee?


----------



## rpveld

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I bestow upon you the rank of audiophile. Stand and be recognized by your fellow audio nuts. God save the Queen! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 Hows that for starting your day? Now where did I put my coffee? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Dear sir, I am speechless, well almost, thank you for your kind words.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 I am an audiophile...........


----------



## fl00r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, you don't have to be an "audiophile" to have a valid and worthwhile first impression. Many impressions are better coming from those who believe they are average users, because they are not as biased! I for one, appreciate your first impressions and look forward to any impressions you might have after burn-in. I'm sure other users who are looking at the Zero as a possible purchase, would appreciate your impressions as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Many here believe you are not an audiophile until you have a trained ear/mind. I would counter this with; "You are an audiophile if you love music, love the equipment and listen with your heart and mind." There is no magic line drawn that says today you are a user, a week from now you are an audiophile. It is more important to have a pinch of common sense to guide you, than some pre-determined goal set my others. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The fact that you can form an impression and understand it's complexities and do this with a "fair and unbiased" approach, makes you an audiophile by your actions. I bestow upon you the rank of audiophile. Stand and be recognized by your fellow audio nuts. God save the Queen! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 Hows that for starting your day? Now where did I put my coffee? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

LOL

 Well said Dave 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Although most of the day is over here in Holland it's a splendid way to end it


----------



## oldson

hi
 ordered my zero today following advice from penchum!
 next month an amp will follow!
 guess that means i have the bug now!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 cheers


----------



## szlnk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Check and make sure the built-in audio is enabled in the CMOS. Also, if it is, check the windows settings for audio and make sure they are correct. Another test method is to try a cd player or dvd player that have optical out.
 Chances are your Zero is fine._

 

It was a driver problem, the latest nforce2 audio driver forced to use Dolby Digital encoding all the time. After driver downgrade it works perfectly. Anyway, thanks for the answer.

 BTW, I purchased the Zero DAC from here: Tianyun ZERO Multifuction Decoders, Ebay
 I paid 111 USD + 35 USD for shipping. The seller was great, he has good feedback, I can recommend him to anyone. He has also some Little Dot amps, and something that looks interesting: Mini UBS Sound Card---LILO III (it can do USB -> SPDIF conversion).

 Shipping (to Hungary) was fast:
 2008-04-03 14:31:00 Posting 
 2008-04-03 17:21:00BASG Despatch from Sorting Center 
 2008-04-04 14:40:23SHENZHEN Arrival at Sorting Center 
 2008-04-04 15:21:37SHENZHEN Despatch from Sorting Center 
 2008-04-05 08:47:00GUANGZHOU Arrival at Sorting Center 
 2008-04-05 13:06:00GUANGZHOU Despatch from Sorting Center 
 2008-04-08 02:08:00REPUBLIC OF HUNGARY BUDAPEST Arrival at Sorting Center 
 2008-04-08 14:32:00REPUBLIC OF HUNGARY HU1952 Attempted delivery 
 2008-04-08 15:11:00REPUBLIC OF HUNGARY HU1952 Arrival at Delivery Office 
 2008-04-08 20:24:00REPUBLIC OF HUNGARY HU1952 Attempted delivery 
 2008-04-09 22:29:00REPUBLIC OF HUNGARY HU1952 Delivery


----------



## dmad

I've also received my ZERO from Lawrence. I am very happy with the sound (wife too, unbelievable, she said "the music is so clear now"), however I am having a hum from the transformer, has anyone had that? Any suggestions on how to repair it?


----------



## souperman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *szlnk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It was a driver problem, the latest nforce2 audio driver forced to use Dolby Digital encoding all the time. After driver downgrade it works perfectly. Anyway, thanks for the answer.

 BTW, I purchased the Zero DAC from here: Tianyun ZERO Multifuction Decoders, Ebay
 I paid 111 USD + 35 USD for shipping. The seller was great, he has good feedback, I can recommend him to anyone. He has also some Little Dot amps, and something that looks interesting: Mini UBS Sound Card---LILO III (it can do USB -> SPDIF conversion).

 Shipping (to Hungary) was fast:
 2008-04-03 14:31:00 Posting 
 2008-04-03 17:21:00BASG Despatch from Sorting Center 
 2008-04-04 14:40:23SHENZHEN Arrival at Sorting Center 
 2008-04-04 15:21:37SHENZHEN Despatch from Sorting Center 
 2008-04-05 08:47:00GUANGZHOU Arrival at Sorting Center 
 2008-04-05 13:06:00GUANGZHOU Despatch from Sorting Center 
 2008-04-08 02:08:00REPUBLIC OF HUNGARY BUDAPEST Arrival at Sorting Center 
 2008-04-08 14:32:00REPUBLIC OF HUNGARY HU1952 Attempted delivery 
 2008-04-08 15:11:00REPUBLIC OF HUNGARY HU1952 Arrival at Delivery Office 
 2008-04-08 20:24:00REPUBLIC OF HUNGARY HU1952 Attempted delivery 
 2008-04-09 22:29:00REPUBLIC OF HUNGARY HU1952 Delivery_

 

Hmm. That's so much cheaper than Lawrence's.


----------



## ianp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *szlnk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW, I purchased the Zero DAC from here: Tianyun ZERO Multifuction Decoders, Ebay
 I paid 111 USD + 35 USD for shipping. The seller was great, he has good feedback, I can recommend him to anyone. _

 

I bought from them around CNY time and they kept me fully informed about the (expected) delay in shipping and were very responsive to questions. Overall their service was excellent and they get a big 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 from me.


----------



## Penchum

Wow! A good new seller of the Zero! I haven't really been looking, so I missed this. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I hope this works out, so we have a choice!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I checked to see if they are an authorized seller of Little-Dot, and they are not, so I would avoid buying Little-Dot from them. You could buy from them, but the warranty from Little-Dot would be NO GOOD and not honored.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *szlnk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It was a driver problem, the latest nforce2 audio driver forced to use Dolby Digital encoding all the time. After driver downgrade it works perfectly. Anyway, thanks for the answer._

 

Good catch!! Glad your digital is up and running.


----------



## modShade

There have been a few mentions of the HeadRoom Total Bithead in this forum but does anybody know how the Zero does against the Bithead?

 Thanks.


----------



## batmanwcm

Hmmmm, now that this is getting cheaper, I might have to bite.


----------



## oatmeal769

It's such a great deal for an awesome sounding unit, I'm now thinking of becoming part of the 'more than one' club.


----------



## souperman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *batmanwcm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmmmm, now that this is getting cheaper, I might have to bite._

 

Just as a precaution, I asked Lawrence about this seller. This seller is not THAT new of a seller, but has been selling since the beginning of this year. Here was Lawrence's answer.

 "Dear Sir ,

 They are in Mainland China . All the things is different , currency , transportation , labour cost , rent , electricity.........etc.

 Also I will take care of your zero , even the user who are not bought from me . I haven't charge any shipping cost or parts if the product have problem even used for a long time or damaged by the user's fault. I'll run in the DAC and make sure everything is OK before shipping out . Of course , when the parcel is out of my hand , I cannot do anything or even damaged by the postal delivery. It only and a little different in the price but the service behind is appreciated by all the customers. Actually I only have marginal profit since HONG KONG is expensive than Mainland China but the quality and expectation from me is better.

 Also this seller bring many problem to buyers. Many of his buyers request to have parts , help or repair from me. He haven't run in the DAC before shipping out.


 Thank you very much !

 Best regards,
 Lawrence"

 I would be very wary even though the price is cheap. Lawrence is a great guy, and I don't regret spending the extra $30-40 just for the fact that I know my product is backed up by the seller. Oh well, I guess this is just how the economy works, and people would rather buy cheaper obviously. Just keep this in mind when you buy your Zero.


----------



## coredump

Chan has repaired my Zero and is asking if I'd like an OPAMP upgrade. Any suggestions? I haven't even heard the stock one yet.


----------



## classicalguy

I'm wondering about the comparison of the Zero and the DIYEDEN SVDA05. From the new seller, Zero costs $146 delivered with AD1852 dac, and DIYEDEN is $169 with CS4398 Dac. Anybody have an opinion on the comparison between these two? I really want to buy one of them. Thanks.


----------



## magnetiq

guys, does the Zero support 192khz through coaxial? it works normally via optical, but if im using a coaxial cable i get a lot of noise/crackling (until i play a file, What?)


----------



## noctodonta

I'm looking to buy my first amp for a pair of Beyerdynamics DT150 which I will use with my laptop, probably through optical. My sound card is the Creative Audigy 2 zs notebook. I've considered the X-Can V3, the Octavart and now the Zero. I have never had a headphone amp, so do you think I will hear that much of a difference between the Zero and the other (much) more costly amps? How do you think they compare? I am going to hear the X-Can in a couple of days and then I will see how I like it. I want great sound but I think the rational thing to do would be just starting off slow with something like the Zero.

 Sucks to be where trial amps are not.


----------



## mrarroyo

noctodonta, I have owned an stock X-Can V3 and it has great potential with the PinkFloyd mods and one of his Little Pinkies. But in stock form the Octavart is superior. Good luck.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *noctodonta* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm looking to buy my first amp for a pair of Beyerdynamics DT150 which I will use with my laptop, probably through optical. My sound card is the Creative Audigy 2 zs notebook. I've considered the X-Can V3, the Octavart and now the Zero. I have never had a headphone amp, so do you think I will hear that much of a difference between the Zero and the other (much) more costly amps? How do you think they compare? I am going to hear the X-Can in a couple of days and then I will see how I like it. I want great sound but I think the rational thing to do would be just starting off slow with something like the Zero.

 Sucks to be where trial amps are not._

 

Many have gone the slower, more logical/budget minded approach with the Zero first. This gives them time to research and save up some cash to buy a dedicated tube or SS amp later, that they will drive with the Zero's DAC outputs. During that saving up time, they roll Opamps to further improve the Zero's output and built-in headphone amp. Many are using digital out from Creative cards and this works great! Have a good one!


----------



## vvanrij

Sorry to ask this question, as it probably has been asked before (262pages), but I contacted the seller now, to ask him if he could replace the opamps, before I buy it, and then send it. This is because I read in your review that it makes it sound much better. So now he asked me:

 There are 3 opampas (yes, he said opampas), 2 + 1 on the motherboard. He asked me which I want to change, plus which I want on them.

 I read the 627 was really good? Any suggestions, you seem to have ALOT of experience by now Penchum 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanx for the awesome review and thread btw 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm gonna buy this baby because I discovered it by your post 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Greetings

 -Victor


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry to ask this question, as it probably has been asked before (262pages), but I contacted the seller now, to ask him if he could replace the opamps, before I buy it, and then send it. This is because I read in your review that it makes it sound much better. So now he asked me:

 There are 3 opampas (yes, he said opampas), 2 + 1 on the motherboard. He asked me which I want to change, plus which I want on them.

 I read the 627 was really good? Any suggestions, you seem to have ALOT of experience by now Penchum 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanx for the awesome review and thread btw 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm gonna buy this baby because I discovered it by your post 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Greetings

 -Victor_

 

Thanks for the kind words. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Many here favor the OPA627's (two on an adapter) in the DAC section (motherboard). Once you have your Zero, you could get some LT1364's (two for the headphone amp board) to improve the headphone amp's sound. There are many possibilities, but this combination is hard to beat.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magnetiq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_guys, does the Zero support 192khz through coaxial? it works normally via optical, but if im using a coaxial cable i get a lot of noise/crackling (until i play a file, What?)_

 

Hey, sorry I missed your post earlier. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As far as I know, it supports 192 with both. Is it possible you are picking up some interference with the coaxial cable? This wouldn't be unheard of if it has shielding issues?


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_noctodonta, I have owned an stock X-Can V3 and it has great potential with the PinkFloyd mods and one of his Little Pinkies. But in stock form the Octavart is superior. Good luck._

 

I ave just added the pink floyd mods to my x-can v3. Sounds pretty nice, im going to get a little pinkie next. I have a few amps now. Might have to get rid of some soon. :0(


----------



## sgprater

I have an older (in audio equipment years) Bel Canto DAC2 that I've been using between my computer and my tube amp. I also have an older Headroom Microamp + MicroDAC with the desktop module (2006) that I occasionally use with my laptop. I'm happy with both, but the Zero reviews have intrigued me.

 Anyone have a chance to compare the Zero to either of these? I realize the price differential is quite a bit, but more expensive does not necessarily mean better quailty, esp. when comparing new, cheaper components to older ones.


----------



## magnetiq

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, sorry I missed your post earlier. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As far as I know, it supports 192 with both. Is it possible you are picking up some interference with the coaxial cable? This wouldn't be unheard of if it has shielding issues?_

 

the bizarre thing is that when i play a music file it's fine? only between tracks i can hear it lol

 it's also fine with 44.1/48/96khz, just 192 introduces noise, oh well. thanks anyways


----------



## souperman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magnetiq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the bizarre thing is that when i play a music file it's fine? only between tracks i can hear it lol

 it's also fine with 44.1/48/96khz, just 192 introduces noise, oh well. thanks anyways 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Just use the lower khz then right? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's not necessary to use 192 anyways even though one would think the Zero would work the best with 192.


----------



## vvanrij

Thanks for your reaction Penchum, but I'm still a little bit confused now... The question he asked me:

 'If you really want to change the opamps.it's okay.Since there are three opamps inside the decoder,one in the main board,the other two are in other place,please advise which one you would like to change? '

 So what would you recommend me to respond to that, cause I just learned about opamps, the 627 etc. so what should I request him to chance, and to what?

 Thank you very much 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -Victor


----------



## souperman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for your reaction Penchum, but I'm still a little bit confused now... The question he asked me:

 'If you really want to change the opamps.it's okay.Since there are three opamps inside the decoder,one in the main board,the other two are in other place,please advise which one you would like to change? '

 So what would you recommend me to respond to that, cause I just learned about opamps, the 627 etc. so what should I request him to chance, and to what?

 Thank you very much 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -Victor_

 

Don't request any of the opamps. You can purchase them for cheaper elsewhere. They are easy to change yourself. You just unplug them and plug the new ones in.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Pench,

 I have a quick question for you.......does the MB dac opamp dip come with a dual chip adapter now, if so are the opamps socketed or soldered in on the adapter ?

 Regards,

 Peete.


----------



## vvanrij

I searched already, but they seem hard to get in the netherlands, so thats why I just want him to put em in


----------



## rpveld

Hallo Victor,

 For the DAC part you need two OPA 627 on a adapter.
 I bought them from wu.diykits@gmail.com. just send him a email .
_OPA 627BP 2pc $11x2= $22 USD
 Single to dual socket $2.5 USD
 It cost $6 USD ship by double registered air mail.
 Total $30.5 USd_



 For the Amp part you need two opamps. There are some choices here.
 I got 2 x LT1469, 2 x LT1361, 2 x LT1364.
 I bought them from Souperman.

 Now I didn't use any of them yet because the Zero is still burning in. So I can't give you any advise on which to get.

 All I know is when ordering from Lawrence you probably will pay more than necessary.

 Groeten,
 Rob


----------



## vvanrij

Ok thanks for the reply, I e-mailed the guy to know how much it will cost to have the OPA627's and the 1364's. It would be great to just buy it like this, and receive it ready to go (offcourse it has to burn-in).

 Bedankt,
 Victor

 edit: btw its not lawrence, I am looking on this site: Tianyun ZERO Multifuction Decoders - eBay (item 110217589972 end time Apr-22-08 03:16:23 PDT)

 its well cheaper !


----------



## Snicewicz

Well my optical to mini optical cable came today and when I plugged it in to the optical slot on my iMac the usic was playing through the speakers. 

 I have it in the headphone spot and its working fine right now but will I benefit if I put it in the optical out instead of headphone out? Also, how do I get it to play if the optical out is more beneficial?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pench,

 I have a quick question for you.......does the MB dac opamp dip come with a dual chip adapter now, if so are the opamps socketed or soldered in on the adapter ?

 Regards,

 Peete._

 

Nope, you have to buy the adapter and the two single Opamps. Nothing is soldered, so changes are still easy to do.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Snicewicz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well my optical to mini optical cable came today and when I plugged it in to the optical slot on my iMac the usic was playing through the speakers. 

 I have it in the headphone spot and its working fine right now but will I benefit if I put it in the optical out instead of headphone out? Also, how do I get it to play if the optical out is more beneficial?_

 

Well, I'm confused now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I thought yours was like my ASUS notebook, where the headphone jack is also the Optical jack?


----------



## ricmat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I'm confused now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I thought yours was like my ASUS notebook, where the headphone jack is also the Optical jack?_

 


 exactly! mine as well, one just need something like this:

http://www.funk-tonstudiotechnik.de/...k-Klinke-5.jpg


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nope, you have to buy the adapter and the two single Opamps. Nothing is soldered, so changes are still easy to do._

 

Okie Doakie, do you know a good place to get an adapter from that also has the OPA627's for reasonable cost ?

 I have a pair of AD825's ( I think, those tiny SOIC chips are hard to read without binoculars 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) from an Ah Tjoeb 4000 that might be a good fit with the Zero provided the adapter has sockets on it. Kinda thinking out loud so to speak.

 One last question, the best vendor to get a zero from.....lots of requests tonight 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks Pench, 

 Peete.


----------



## Snicewicz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I'm confused now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I thought yours was like my ASUS notebook, where the headphone jack is also the Optical jack?_

 

Eh whatever, Im sure im just mixing everything up. Ill leave it as it is. Well see how this thing changes during burn in.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Okie Doakie, do you know a good place to get an adapter from that also has the OPA627's for reasonable cost ?

 I have a pair of AD825's ( I think, those tiny SOIC chips are hard to read without binoculars 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) from an Ah Tjoeb 4000 that might be a good fit with the Zero provided the adapter has sockets on it. Kinda thinking out loud so to speak.

 One last question, the best vendor to get a zero from.....lots of requests tonight 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks Pench, 

 Peete._

 

I borrowed this form rpveld, he got the best price I have seen so far:

 "For the DAC part you need two OPA 627 on a adapter.
 I bought them from wu.diykits@gmail.com. just send him a email .
 OPA 627BP 2pc $11x2= $22 USD
 Single to dual socket $2.5 USD
 It cost $6 USD ship by double registered air mail.
 Total $30.5 USD"

 The guys at diykits have been real straight shooters, so I feel very safe recommending them.


----------



## vvanrij

Ok I just ordered the Zero 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was thinking of a beresford, but I read the amp was pretty crap. The amp is alright on this one right? I just ordered it standard, and I emailed the dude mentioned above for the OPA 627BP + single to dual and the LT1364's.


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok I just ordered the Zero 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was thinking of a beresford, but I read the amp was pretty crap. The amp is alright on this one right? I just ordered it standard, and I emailed the dude mentioned above for the OPA 627BP + single to dual and the LT1364's._

 

Congratulations! I think you're going to be surprised just how good this unit is...Just make sure you give it time to burn in . Good choice on those opamps...thats the combo that I finally settled on after trying quite a few different combinations...To my ears they really bring out the best that the Zero has to offer...I mostly use my Zero as a DAC to the MkIII because I enjoy the "tube" sound so much but occasionally I'll listen to the built in SS amp, and for the money it more than holds it's own...Once you have it burned in and with the opamps changed I think you'll really enjoy it..


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok I just ordered the Zero 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was thinking of a beresford, but I read the amp was pretty crap. The amp is alright on this one right? I just ordered it standard, and I emailed the dude mentioned above for the OPA 627BP + single to dual and the LT1364's._

 

Yes indeed, Congratulations! If you were worried about the headphone amp, don't be. It's a dual mono design with plenty of power. It is much better than you would expect, especially once you change out the Opamps after burn-in. Trapper32 is right, it is nice to be able to switch to SS amp listening whenever you want, or in your case, if you get a nice tube amp later, you could do the same. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Flexibility is a nice thing!


----------



## Snicewicz

I know this seems a bit ridiculous and probably covered before, but would my stock zero be able to power K701s to where I would be able to enjoy them with maybe a little bass and a big soundstage?


----------



## vvanrij

Ok thats awesome to hear that the built-in amp is good. I might buy a little-dot amp later, when I saved up a little more 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This is an expensive hobby, but o boy is it worth it


----------



## souperman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Snicewicz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know this seems a bit ridiculous and probably covered before, but would my stock zero be able to power K701s to where I would be able to enjoy them with maybe a little bass and a big soundstage?_

 

Personally I think the K701's need tubes for that kind of improvement. I really doubt you would hear that with the Zero.


----------



## Snicewicz

Looks like ill probably buy a Little Dot MKIII and then just use my zero as a DAC and preamp and have the LD hooked up to it, that ould work correct?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Snicewicz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looks like ill probably buy a Little Dot MKIII and then just use my zero as a DAC and preamp and have the LD hooked up to it, that ould work correct?_

 

Yes, there are many K701 users with the MKIII and they love it.


----------



## Snicewicz

Thank you penchum for sticking with this thread and attending to our every question


----------



## Vaughn

Well, I am soon to join the Zero mob. I just ordered one from Lawrence
 and will use it as is for awhile. I then plan on building a Bijou tube amp to
 compliment my HD650's/D2000/ESW9's.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Vaughn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I am soon to join the Zero mob. I just ordered one from Lawrence
 and will use it as is for awhile. I then plan on building a Bijou tube amp to
 compliment my HD650's/D2000/ESW9's._

 

Congratulations! Your Zero will be a great "stop gap" measure until you have the tube amp built. That is a very cool idea too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Do you have a link to the tube amp so I could see what it's like? Thanks!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Snicewicz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you penchum for sticking with this thread and attending to our every question 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Just trying to help if I can. I know how a big thread like this can "hide" answers sometimes.


----------



## classicalguy

Well, I really wanted USB, so I bought the Musiland instead of the zero. It was probably a mistake given the great reviews of the zero here, but will be something new to play with. Maybe my next one will be a zero.


----------



## Vaughn

Thanks for the welcome into the Zero fold, Penchum.
 Here is a link to the Bijou kit, available from Glass Jar Audio;

Glass Jar Audio

 It was developed, I believe, by Headwize member runeight. It seems to
 be favorably reviewed on this website and on Headwize. It has a variable
 feedback feature that allows it to drive headphones of various impedances.
 I do love the sound of tubes(336i was my last amp) and would like to have
 an amp that can drive my Denons and my Sennheisers.


----------



## sdgserv

Question..I would like to change the oamp in the dac part to the LT1469. I have never change one out. Which one do I pull out. Maybe the HP amp to a LT 1361. After reading it looks like that is a good bet. I am more concerned with the Dac section as I don't use the amp that much. Any help or link..I just don't want to screw this up.
 Thanks
 Oh yeah..where do I buy the oamps at?


----------



## CountChoculaBot

Linear Technology - Linear Home Page For Opamps starting with LT
National Semiconductor, High-Performance Analog for Energy-Efficient PowerWise Designs For LME49720 (LM4562)
Digi-Key Corporation - USA Home Page For all OpAmpts
diykits For OPA627BP


----------



## sdgserv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CountChoculaBot* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Linear Technology - Linear Home Page For Opamps starting with LT
National Semiconductor, High-Performance Analog for Energy-Efficient PowerWise Designs For LME49720 (LM4562)
Digi-Key Corporation - USA Home Page For all OpAmpts
diykits For OPA627BP_

 

Thank you and the journey begins


----------



## Henmyr

I have done a done a small comparison between the dac part of the zero (with LME49720 op-amp) and the modded Xfi (LM4562 op-amp) (guide by Cotdt, switched op-amp + bigger caps + shielded) with Headfive as amp for both.

 Xfi -> foobar asio -> optical -> zero -> headfive
 vs
 Xfi -> foobar asio -> analog -> headfive

 I have different cables between X-fi -> Headfive and Zero -> Headfive, both from the lowest price bracket. I do not know how much of a difference they make.

 First, both sources are very similar, but I'm pretty sure I can hear some differences which are not only placebo. This is not a DBT as I move the cables by hand and clearly knows which source I'm listening to.

 As both zero and xfi have identical op-amps (from what I know LM4562 and LME49720 are the same. If they are not the same then some differences, such as bass amount might be due to differences in tonality of the op-amps) ...EDIT (missing part) the comparison should show the technical differences without the op-amp tonality interfering.

 Both sources are volume matched within one dB.

 I've tried with a couple of headphones to see if the choice of headphones affects the result.



*With ATH-AD2000 as headphones:*

 The first thing which I think I hear, is that the xfi has a bit more texture to every sound, might call it detail. In comparison to xfi, the zero is slightly blurry. This is heard best during a "wall of guitars", Machine Head - Bulldozer is an exemple. With the xfi, the guitars have more texture and more "bite" in comparison to the zero. The extra texture with the xfi make acoustic guitars sound slightly more natural with more body.

 The texture is not a type of texture which makes the sound grainy, I would rather say that the extra texture make it even less grainy.

 I also hear that the xfi has more exact positioning of every sound. This makes the sound more precise and clear. The edges of every sound are clearer and more exact with xfi.

 Due to the more exact positioning with xfi, the separation seems to be slightly better.

 The sharper edges of xfi also seem to give a better sense of attack over all frequencies.

 The less sharp sound of the zero makes it sound more laid back than the xfi.

 The tonality is very very similar with both sources.

 When switching to the xfi, it sounds like the resolution is increased a bit.

 The soundstage is very similar between the two sources.

 With AD2000 and Zero (LME49720) vs Xfi (LM4562) the Xfi is the better source. It's slightly more natural with greater texture. A change of op-amp in the zero to something like LT1364 might give an even better and more natural tonality than the xfi, but in my experience the "blurry" sound is still present.

*With HD650 as headphones:*

 The comments with AD2000 works to an extent with the HD650. The differences is much less obvious with the HD650 though. This might be because the HD650 is in itself slightly soft in the edges, and the Headfive might not be enough for it to take it to the next level in clarity.

*With DT880 as headphones:*

 Same comments here. Due to the less "blurry" sound the modded xfi sounds just slightly more detailed.

 The "wall of guitars" is slightly more crisp with the xfi.

*Conclusion*

 All of these differences are very subtle, but in audio everything is. 

 The xfi seems to have more detail and texture, which results in a clearer crisper sound with more attack. I do not think that this extra crispness is something which easier leads to fatigue though. The zero is slightly more laid back in comparisson. Xfi seems to have sharper edges which helps with positioning of every sound and gives a greater sense of instrumental separation.

 The zero seems to have more bass quantity than the xfi. I can't give one or the other the win i bass quality, as both seem to be equal in that regard.

*Extra comments*

 I do not know why the zero is slightly "blurry" compared to the xfi, one thought is that it might have to do with jitter between the xfi -> optical -> zero. With the zero, the edges are slightly blurry in comparison with the xfi.

 Also remember that the Headfive in itself has a slight tube sound with soft edges. The "blurry" sound of the zero could just be a slight missmatch with Headfive. But the slight "blurry" sound seem to exist with other opamps in the zero as well. It also appears when I use the Zero's own headphone amp, so I do not think it has anything to do with cables between the Zero -> Headfive.

 The ability to easily change op-amp speaks for the zero. The LME49720 is not my favorite op-amp in the zero. The one I prefer the most in the dac so far is the LT1364 due to the slightly warm and clear midrange, which works very well with AD2000/ms2i/DT880.

 Also, again, all of these differences are very suble. I can emidietly hear that something is slightly different, but it takes a lot of changing from one to the other to really understand what the difference is.


----------



## Snicewicz

Hey penchum im thinking of changing out the opamps. I was just wondering where you got your adapter and opamps and how much they were together. 

 I know the adapter is from brown dog, did you get extended pins are installed, or just the pins are installed?

 Also do you have a combo that you think is the best, possibly for Grado sound signature?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have done a done a small comparison between the dac part of the zero (with LME49720 op-amp) and the modded Xfi (LM4562 op-amp) (guide by Cotdt, switched op-amp + bigger caps + shielded) with Headfive as amp for both.

 Xfi -> foobar asio -> optical -> zero -> headfive
 vs
 Xfi -> foobar asio -> analog -> headfive

 I have different cables between X-fi -> Headfive and Zero -> Headfive, both from the lowest price bracket. I do not know how much of a difference they make.

 First, both sources are very similar, but I'm pretty sure I can hear some differences which are not only placebo. This is not a DBT as I move the cable by hand and clearly knows which source I'm listening to.

 As both zero and xfi has identical op-amps (from what I know LM4562 and LME49720 are the same. If they are not the same then the some differences, as bass amount might be due to differences in tonality of the op-amps).

 Both sources are volume matched within one dB.

 I've tried with a couple of headphones to see if the choice of headphones affects the result.



*With ATH-AD2000 as headphones:*

 The first thing which I think I hear, is that the xfi has a bit more texture to every sound, might call it detail. In comparison to xfi, the zero is slightly blurry. This is heard best during a "wall of guitars", Machine Head - Bulldozer is an exemple. With the xfi, the guitars have more texture and more "bite" in comparison to the zero. The extra texture with the xfi make acoustic guitars sound slightly more natural with more body.

 The texture is not a type of texture which makes the sound grainy, I would rather say that the extra texture make it even less grainy.

 I also hear that the xfi has more exact position of every sound. This makes the sound more precise and clear. The edges of every sound are clearer and more exact with xfi.

 Due to the more exact positioning with xfi, the separation seems to be slightly better.

 The sharper edges of xfi also seem to give a better sense of attack over all frequencies.

 The less sharp sound of the zero makes it sound more laid back than the xfi.

 The tonality is very very similar with both sources.

 When switching to the xfi, it sounds like the resolution is increased a bit.

 The soundstage is very similar between the two sources.

 With AD2000 and Zero (LME49720) vs Xfi (LM4562) the Xfi is the better source. It's slightly more natural with greater texture. A change of op-amp in the zero to something like LT1364 might give an even better and more natural tonality than the xfi, but in my experience the "blurry" sound is still present.

*With HD650 as headphones:*

 The comments with AD2000 works to an extent with the HD650. The differences is much less obvious with the HD650 though. This might be because the HD650 is in itself slightly soft in the edges, and the Headfive might not be enough for it to take it to the next level in clarity.

*With DT880 as headphones:*

 Same comments here. Due to the less "blurry" sound the modded xfi sounds just slightly more detailed.

 The "wall of guitars" is slightly more crisp with the xfi.

*Conclusion*

 All of these differences are very subtle, but in audio everything is. 

 The xfi seems to have more detail and texture, which results in a clearer crisper sound with more attack. I do not think that this extra crispness is something which easier leads to fatigue though. The zero is slightly more laid back in comparisson. Xfi seems to have sharper edges which helps with positioning of every sound and gives a greater sense of instrumental separation.

 The zero seems to have more bass quantity than the xfi. I can't give one or the other the win i bass quality, as both seem to be equal in that regard.

*Extra comments*

 I do not know why the zero is slightly "blurry" compared to the xfi, one thought is that it might have to do with jitter between the xfi -> optical -> zero. With the zero, the edges are slightly blurry in comparison with the xfi.

 Also remember that the Headfive in itself has a slight tube sound with soft edges. The "blurry" sound of the zero could just be a slight missmatch with Headfive. But the slight "blurry" sound seem to exist with other opamps in the zero as well. It also appears when I use the Zero's own headphone amp, so I do not think it has anything to do with cables between the Zero -> Headfive.

 The ability to easily change op-amp speaks for the zero. The LME49720 is not my favorite op-amp in the zero. The one I prefer the most in the dac so far is the LT1364 due to the slightly warm and clear midrange, which works very well with AD2000/ms2i/DT880.

 Also, again, all of these differences are very suble. I can emidietly hear that something is slightly different, but it takes a lot of changing from one to the other to really understand what the difference is._

 

Thanks for the excellent mini-review! I find it astounding that the DAC of the Zero can sound so close to a modded X-Fi. I guess in my mind, I had already decided that a properly modded X-Fi would be much beyond the Zero's DAC section using the same Opamps. I agree that the LME49720 in the DAC wouldn't be my choice either. I'm solidly hooked on the OPA627's in the DAC, for output to another amp.
 Thanks again!!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Snicewicz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey penchum im thinking of changing out the opamps. I was just wondering where you got your adapter and opamps and how much they were together. 

 I know the adapter is from brown dog, did you get extended pins are installed, or just the pins are installed?

 Also do you have a combo that you think is the best, possibly for Grado sound signature?_

 

We have several Grado users with the Zero, I hope they will speak up for you.
 DIYKITS.com has the best prices for my favorite DAC Opamps, the OPA627 (2 on the adapter). Look back a page or two, the information is there on who to email about a purchase. I am currently running these in both of my Zero's, with LT1364's in the headphone amp sections.


----------



## kwekeugene

@Snicewicz

 I have a Grado SR225. My setup is OPA627 (dac) and LT1364 (amp). I tried the LT1361, LT057 and LT1469 in the amp section before settling for the LT1364. You might want to let us know sound that you looking for...

 LT1361 = Detailed, overall pretty good however, fatiguing on long listening sessions

 LT1469 = Recessed mids, music sounds rather odd.

 LT1364 = Similar to LT1361 but has a tamer highs and mids.

 LT1057 = Total opposite compared to the LT1469. Mids are very prominent at the expense of the highs and details.


----------



## scaz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Vaughn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I am soon to join the Zero mob. I just ordered one from Lawrence
 and will use it as is for awhile. I then plan on building a Bijou tube amp to
 compliment my HD650's/D2000/ESW9's._

 

Me too. I have HD650 I will be mainly using with this. I will probably end up with a amp with this, but I need to save up money and figure out what I want to go with this. I got a lot to learn. 

 It seems like we need a separate opamp rolling thread for the Zero. I will try to learn how to do that and goof around


----------



## sdgserv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scaz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 It seems like we need a separate opamp rolling thread for the Zero. I will try to learn how to do that and goof around 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			











_

 

Good idea


----------



## dcpoor

wow, is the modded X-Fi really that good? comparable or better than the zero?


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dcpoor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_wow, is the modded X-Fi really that good? comparable or better than the zero?_

 

Yeah, I'm not so sure about that either... I was thinking of doing the mods though. (opAmp, Cap, Blanket) To have it as another good source.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dcpoor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_wow, is the modded X-Fi really that good? comparable or better than the zero?_

 

That depends. If this "blurring" and masking of detail and texture is due to jitter than there maybe is something which could be done about it, not sure though.

 The tonality of the zero can be tweaked, so it might fit different headphones easier, but from a pure technical standpoint, I find the LM4562 modded x-fi to more than hold it's on against the zero.


----------



## mojolo

how would this amp match with Audio Technica ATH-ES7 headphones? could these cans be too sensitive for this amp?

 i need a DAC/Amp for work to hook up to my macbook pro. the macbook pro only has 2 USB ports so i need a DAC/Amp with optical input. since it will be sitting at my desk all the time, portability is not a necessity.

 as far as the headphones go, the ES7's are about as close as i want to get to a full-sized headphone at work.

 would this be a good combo compared to other options?


----------



## vvanrij

We are talking about the Creative XFi here right :|???


----------



## katanka

Just a quick question before i blind buy this ZERO as a starting point. I would like to know how it compares to the likes of an E-MU 0404. Anyone compare the 2


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dcpoor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_wow, is the modded X-Fi really that good? comparable or better than the zero?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, I'm not so sure about that either... I was thinking of doing the mods though. (opAmp, Cap, Blanket) To have it as another good source._

 

The X-Fi modded is only that good against the Zero, when the LM4562 is used in the Zero's DAC section. This is not a combination that reveals the Zero's true potential. OPA627's in the DAC, or LT1364 in the DAC will show a major improvement over the LM4562. This has been tested by myself and several others, several times. The LM4562 also creates the blurring effect.
 Jitter, has not once been noted with the Zero, since it was discovered last year.


----------



## vvanrij

Thats a relief 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 thank you Penchum!


----------



## dcpoor

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The X-Fi modded is only that good against the Zero, when the LM4562 is used in the Zero's DAC section. This is not a combination that reveals the Zero's true potential. OPA627's in the DAC, or LT1364 in the DAC will show a major improvement over the LM4562. This has been tested by myself and several others, several times. The LM4562 also creates the blurring effect.
 Jitter, has not once been noted with the Zero, since it was discovered last year._

 

So the Zero with the OPA627 or LT1364 in the DAC is superior to a modded(LM4562) X-Fi in your opinion?


----------



## Seba

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dcpoor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So the Zero with the OPA627 or LT1364 in the DAC is superior to a modded(LM4562) X-Fi in your opinion?_

 

Yes IMO. I hate my Hotrodded X-Fi after I realized that it has too bright sound and gives listening fatique compared to other sources. Nowadays I use it only as a transporter to Zero.


----------



## Henmyr

I was only comparing the modded Xfi to the zero while having them as similar as possible. The reason was to see which was the best source everything equal, and the op-amps then had to be LM4562 and LME49720 since I didn't want to resolder my Xfi. In this comparison, the Xfi did seem technically better.

 I do however agree that tonaly the LME49720 is not the best op-amp for the zero.


----------



## oldson

have ordered my zero, should be despatched this week.
 i now want to order the following opamps
 2x opa627
 2xlt1364
 and of course a brown dog!
 i am still unsure of the amps as i see there are varying types, as in "au" "bp" etc
 could someone give me the FULL model numbers for both chips?
 also at the start of this thread the adaptor used accomodates "plug in" chips but the only ones i have seen for sale dont have these sockets on!?
 please point me in the right direction
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 cheers


----------



## Scottyyy

Quick question guys.

 Would this be an upgrade, downgrade or sidegrade (is that a word? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) from an EMU 0202 USB? 

 I've got a feeling my 0202 is going to be the weak link in my setup, but I don't have much to spend to upgrade. My setup is: EMU 0202 -> DV 332 -> HD650

 Thanks guys


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dcpoor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So the Zero with the OPA627 or LT1364 in the DAC is superior to a modded(LM4562) X-Fi in your opinion?_

 

Yes. Many Zero owners are now using their X-Fi's as transports, which works very well.


----------



## oatmeal769

I was using the 1364 last night in the DAC section, with 1361's in the amp. 
 So far I'm really liking the 1364 in either place. The differences are quite subtle though, it's by no means pronounced or 'night and day'. I think the bass is a bit deeper and dynamics are just slightly improved along with mids and highs.

 I still would like to try a 627, but apparently they're not available unless you want the counterfeit ones.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was using the 1364 last night in the DAC section, with 1361's in the amp. 
 So far I'm really liking the 1364 in either place. The differences are quite subtle though, it's by no means pronounced or 'night and day'. I think the bass is a bit deeper and dynamics are just slightly improved along with mids and highs.

 I still would like to try a 627, but apparently they're not available unless you want the counterfeit ones._

 

Counterfeit ones?


----------



## tinseljim

So I'm new here! But lurking for a while now and think I want to go for the Zero after all the looking. Thanks to everyone who has been so helpful with reviews etc. 

 But quick question: 

 would the Zero (with OPA627) paired with a LD MKIV sound better than the Glow Audio Amp One? 

 I'm using the old-school Grado 325s (black! are these rare?) and Macbook with Apple Lossless.

 Cheers!


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Counterfeit ones? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Look Here. The one's from DIY kits and ebay...

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/fak...s-wild-316937/


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Look Here. The one's from DIY kits and ebay...

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/fak...s-wild-316937/_

 

Wow! My two pair came from Lawrence (some time ago), and are good. I did notice those markings on some of the eBay listings, but I didn't pay them much attention. 
 Thanks for the info!!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tinseljim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I'm new here! But lurking for a while now and think I want to go for the Zero after all the looking. Thanks to everyone who has been so helpful with reviews etc. 

 But quick question: 

 would the Zero (with OPA627) paired with a LD MKIV sound better than the Glow Audio Amp One? 

 I'm using the old-school Grado 325s (black! are these rare?) and Macbook with Apple Lossless.

 Cheers!_

 

Well, I wish I could tell you specifically, but I can't. Once 6moons did their review of the Glow One, some folks has been "giddy" about them.

 I can tell you for sure (I have them) that the MKIV and the Zero with 627s running lossless files is outstanding! Tube rolling will make this pair even better. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm using Senn HD-650's if that helps your perception any.


----------



## sdgserv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow! My two pair came from Lawrence (some time ago), and are good. I did notice those markings on some of the eBay listings, but I didn't pay them much attention. 
 Thanks for the info!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ordered mine at DIY..He emailed me back about fake ones. Said someone sent it back.
 If a fake Oamp hit me in the face, I would not know it.
 Anyway their on the way..Will let you know


----------



## coredump

I have a noob question.

 I plan to use my Zero as a DAC connected to an MKIII. What role does the OPAMP play in the DAC? In my limited understanding I think the DAC chip does the analog conversion and the OPAMP amplifies the signal. If I'm connecting this to another amp why would it be beneficial to have good OPAMPs in the DAC?


----------



## oldson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_have ordered my zero, should be despatched this week.
 i now want to order the following opamps
 2x opa627
 2xlt1364
 and of course a brown dog!
 i am still unsure of the amps as i see there are varying types, as in "au" "bp" etc
 could someone give me the FULL model numbers for both chips?
 also at the start of this thread the adaptor used accomodates "plug in" chips but the only ones i have seen for sale dont have these sockets on!?
 please point me in the right direction
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 cheers_

 

anyone?


----------



## mojolo

Does anyone else have experience with the Super Pro DAC 707? one person in this thread mentioned that they liked it better than the ZERO's DAC. can anyone else comment?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sdgserv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ordered mine at DIY..He emailed me back about fake ones. Said someone sent it back.
 If a fake Oamp hit me in the face, I would not know it.
 Anyway their on the way..Will let you know_

 

I looked at the diagrams and pics in that link and I have to say I'm not sure if this is going to be easy to detect. I guess I wasn't prepared in my mind to imagine someone reverse engineering a chip like that? It brings up too many questions in my mind like; Are they any good?; How wide spread is this? And so on.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyone?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

LT1364CN8#PBF

 OPA627BP

 These should be the correct numbers you want. With this counterfeit 627 stuff going on, you may have to get the 627 from another HeadFi'er.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mojolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone else have experience with the Super Pro DAC 707? one person in this thread mentioned that they liked it better than the ZERO's DAC. can anyone else comment?_

 

That person was banned like 8 times.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I'm sure it is a nice unit, but I wouldn't go too far in believing how well it performs against a desktop unit like the Zero.


----------



## mojolo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That person was banned like 8 times.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I'm sure it is a nice unit, but I wouldn't go too far in believing how well it performs against a desktop unit like the Zero._

 

good catch.

 OTH, the Super DAC w/out USB is around $85 while the ZERO can be had for as little as $111 on eBay for both a DAC and an amp.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mojolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_good catch.

 OTH, the Super DAC w/out USB is around $85 while the ZERO can be had for as little as $111 on eBay for both a DAC and an amp._

 

Plus, one is built for portable use and one for desktop use. When it comes right down to it, most folks don't need a portable DAC for listening when out and about. The flexibility a desktop DAC/Amp brings, can really improve a person's "down time" listening. I've always preferred to "enjoy" listening in a nice quiet place (like home) with full sized cans and better equipment. Heck, I'm still re-ripping my CDs to lossless and this may go on for a while!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coredump* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a noob question.

 I plan to use my Zero as a DAC connected to an MKIII. What role does the OPAMP play in the DAC? In my limited understanding I think the DAC chip does the analog conversion and the OPAMP amplifies the signal. If I'm connecting this to another amp why would it be beneficial to have good OPAMPs in the DAC?_

 

That's it in a nut shell. Opamps "colorize" as they amplify the signal for output, depending on their characteristics. If you have a poor sounding Opamp in the DAC section, your output signal will be poor sounding and your MKIII will of course, amplify the poor sounding signal. So, the better the Opamp, the better the final output from your MKIII.


----------



## oatmeal769

So is the 627 THAT much better than the stock chip, or 1361 / 1364? So far the differences are VERY very small to me. Is it a better 'sounding' chip, or is it renowned because it's the most neutral?

 Also, I believe I will need two 627's and a Brown Dog just for the DAC section, (Making it a rather pricey upgrade) is this correct?


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm still re-ripping my CDs to lossless and this may go on for a while! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm in the same process via EAC / FLAC as well. This does make a not so subtle difference to me. Glad I'm doing it, but it'll be a while...


----------



## CountChoculaBot

Wondering:
 LT1469 + LT1364 DAC=good, phone =good

 LT1469 + LT1361 DAC=great, phone=great

 Why does the rating of the DAC change when the headphone amp's OpAmps are changed? Shouldn't it be independent of the headphone amp? Or does the headphone amp still influence the sound of the RCA outs?

 Oh yes, is there a consensus as to whether the DIYkits OPA627BP's are legit?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So is the 627 THAT much better than the stock chip, or 1361 / 1364? So far the differences are VERY very small to me. Is it a better 'sounding' chip, or is it renowned because it's the most neutral?

 Also, I believe I will need two 627's and a Brown Dog just for the DAC section, (Making it a rather pricey upgrade) is this correct?_

 

Both of OPA627BP's and the LT1364 are much better than the stock Opamp. More dynamic, detailed and a better sound stage. The OPA627BP's are perhaps more laid back than the LT1364, but this is a personal preference thing. The best way to determine this is to try the low cost alternative first, the LT1364 in the DAC. I would recommend a stick-in chip cooler to help keep the heat in check, if you end up liking the LT1364 and plan on using it from now on. 

 Many of us have found that we like the OPA627BP's in the DAC, when driving other amps with it. Most, (not all) that have tried the OPA627BP's have considered it a worth while upgrade in the DAC. Ow, and yes, it's two on an adapter because the OPA627BP is a "single" Opamp, not "dual" like the LT1364.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CountChoculaBot* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wondering:
 LT1469 + LT1364 DAC=good, phone =good

 LT1469 + LT1361 DAC=great, phone=great

 Why does the rating of the DAC change when the headphone amp's OpAmps are changed? Shouldn't it be independent of the headphone amp? Or does the headphone amp still influence the sound of the RCA outs?

 Oh yes, is there a consensus as to whether the DIYkits OPA627BP's are legit?_

 

I'll have to go look at that one. It might have been a typo on my part. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Yes, it was a typo and is fixed! Thanks!


----------



## [S]uds

What would you consider the best OpAmp Combination for Prog Metal/Rock that is easily found? I'm about the purchase the Zero, and I figured I might as well get the best OpAmp's for it right off the bat. I'll be using the Zero with a pair of ALO-780J's and Grado SR225's.

 Also, I know it's probably nested in this thread somewhere, but if you would be so kind to answer(If not, I'll search through the thread). What is the best place to buy said OpAmps? I am guessing Ebay but I'm probably wrong.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *uds* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What would you consider the best OpAmp Combination for Prog Metal/Rock that is easily found? I'm about the purchase the Zero, and I figured I might as well get the best OpAmp's for it right off the bat. I'll be using the Zero with a pair of ALO-780J's and Grado SR225's.

 Also, I know it's probably nested in this thread somewhere, but if you would be so kind to answer(If not, I'll search through the thread). What is the best place to buy said OpAmps? I am guessing Ebay but I'm probably wrong. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_




Will you be using the Zero for drivng another amp? I was thinking you had one?


----------



## sdgserv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So is the 627 THAT much better than the stock chip, or 1361 / 1364? So far the differences are VERY very small to me. Is it a better 'sounding' chip, or is it renowned because it's the most neutral?

 Also, I believe I will need two 627's and a Brown Dog just for the DAC section, (Making it a rather pricey upgrade) is this correct?_

 

About 30 bucks..probably more if they are real..lol


----------



## [S]uds

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Will you be using the Zero for drivng another amp? I was thinking you had one?_

 

No, this is going to be used an an Amp and DAC. This is going to be used for my Dorm, so I don't want anything expensive or fragile(Tubes) for the time being. And it's the right price.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *uds* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, this is going to be used an an Amp and DAC. This is going to be used for my Dorm, so I don't want anything expensive or fragile(Tubes) for the time being. And it's the right price. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_




That's a damn good point. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Since there is a current question about where to get "real" OPA627's, you might want to burn-in the Zero with it's stock Opamps. 

 Or, you can get LT Opamps from their site here: Linear Technology - LT1364 - Dual and Quad 70MHz, 1000V/µs Op Amps LT1364 LT1364CN8#PBF LT1364CS8#PBF LT1364CS8 LT1364CS8#TR LT1364CS8#TRPBF If you had to stick with LT1364 in the DAC, I'd recommend the LT1469's in the amp section. Always order two or more. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm trying to locate a seller who has "real" OPA627s and I'm waiting on a reply on several.


----------



## [S]uds

I'll wait for that then, as I have to wait for a check to clear before I can order anyways.


----------



## szlnk

I got the OpAmps from Linear a few days ago 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I want to use 2x LT1122ACN8#PBF-s in the DAC and LT1364CN8#PBF-s in the amp. Is this a "valid" combination? Has anyone tried this already?

 I need to buy a BrownDog adapter for the LT1122-s. Is this what I need: https://2211905765.monstercommercesi...WPROD&ProdID=9 ? With or without DIP sockets installed (+6 USD) should I buy it?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *szlnk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got the OpAmps from Linear a few days ago 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I want to use 2x LT1122ACN8#PBF-s in the DAC and LT1364CN8#PBF-s in the amp. Is this a "valid" combination? Has anyone tried this already?

 I need to buy a BrownDog adapter for the LT1122-s. Is this what I need: https://2211905765.monstercommercesi...WPROD&ProdID=9 ? With or without DIP sockets installed (+6 USD) should I buy it?_

 

I would recommend getting the sockets installed. This will let you use the adapter for other chips later on, if you wish to.


----------



## [S]uds

Ok, after reading to page 20, I am kinda confused... I can't even think how to phrase my question. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 How many OpAmps are in the Zero? Like, how many can be replaced by something better? And what OpAmps should I get(for Prog Rock/Metal) for what part of the Zero(Meaning DAC and Amp sections)? This is probably much simpler than I am making it out to be, but I just got my self incredibly confused.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *uds* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, after reading to page 20, I am kinda confused... I can't even think how to phrase my question. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 How many OpAmps are in the Zero? Like, how many can be replaced by something better? And what OpAmps should I get(for Prog Rock/Metal) for what part of the Zero(Meaning DAC and Amp sections)? This is probably much simpler than I am making it out to be, but I just got my self incredibly confused. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_




No problem. It is confusing at first. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The stock Zero comes with one "dual" Opamp (one chip) in the DAC section. It has two "dual" Opamps (two chips) in the headphone amp section, one for each channel, L & R.

 The signal is first amplified/colorized by the DAC section and either goes out to the RCA's on the back for use in another amp, or goes to the internal headphone amp for further amplification. The headphone amp "colorizes" the signal further as it amplifies it to headphone levels. This is why you will see folks posting about changes in the SQ based on both DAC & headphone amp Opamp changes. In the case of the "single" Opamps like the OPA627BP's, it takes two "single" Opamp chips on an adapter, to equal a "dual" Opamp.
 Does this help, or did I mess it up?


----------



## [S]uds

So, in the end, I would need 6 OpAmps(or 3 dual OpAmps) to replace the stock ones? And a BrownDog Adapter for each single OpAmp to place 2 of them on?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *uds* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, in the end, I would need 6 OpAmps(or 3 dual OpAmps) to replace the stock ones? And a BrownDog Adapter for each single OpAmp to place 2 of them on?_




That is correct. However, not too many have tried singles in the headphone amp section. The "duals" seem to work great in the headphone amp section.
 I just double checked my Zero #1 I have hooked up to my mini-system, for SQ. It has OPA627's on the adapter, in the DAC section and two LT1364's in the headphone amp section. Using the Zero's built-in headphone amplifier, this combination is really great with my HD-650s! I haven't listened to it for a while, and it is refreshing to have a decent SS sound built-in!


----------



## [S]uds

Do you have any recommendations for easily obtained OpAmps that work well with HFI-780/Grado SR225? Something that can take the fun sound of these cans, but at the same time make it more detailed, maybe tame the treble a bit?

 Also, thank you for all the help. I'd be lost without your explanation of the OpAmps.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *uds* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you have any recommendations for easily obtained OpAmps that work well with HFI-780/Grado SR225? Something that can take the fun sound of these cans, but at the same time make it more detailed, maybe tame the treble a bit?

 Also, thank you for all the help. I'd be lost without your explanation of the OpAmps. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_




No problems. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I would try the stock Opamps first and burn-in the Zero for 100hrs. At that point, you might try the LT1364 in the DAC and LT1469's in the headphone amp. If all else fails to do the trick, then I'd try the OPA627's on an adapter in the DAC, with LT1364's in the headphone amp.

 The burn-in is pretty important, so you can hear the changes of the Zero and have a "reference" point when it's done maturing. This will make the evaluation of other Opamps go a little easier for you. Don't be surprised if you like the stock Opamp sound. About 1/2 of our Zero owners are still using the stock Opamps. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Have a good one!


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, not that much, I guess it's about $90 for a couple including the adapter. Expensive but still not overexaggerated, considering the current availability. If Eddie still has them in stock, I don't think they will be that cheap for long..._

 

Nearly two months ago, I told you what was going to happen to the 627BPs...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I hope that those of you who were trying to save a few bucks didn't get the fake ones.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nearly two months ago, I told you what was going to happen to the 627BPs...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I hope that those of you who were trying to save a few bucks didn't get the fake ones._

 

If someone does, I hope they will give everyone an idea on how they sound different. If copied correctly, they may sound very close to the originals and still be worth the cheap price. Not that I condone buying such things, but "maybe" those who end up with a set, will not be too disappointed. Fingers crossed!


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If someone does, I hope they will give everyone an idea on how they sound different. If copied correctly, they may sound very close to the originals and still be worth the cheap price. Not that I condone buying such things, but "maybe" those who end up with a set, will not be too disappointed. Fingers crossed! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

IMHO they're not 627BPs clones. The fakers didn't even manage to copy them exactly the same on the outside... so thinking that 627BPs have been reverse engineered to replicate them sounds too much optimistic to me.

 Very likely they are cheap opamps rebranded with a fake logo.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IMHO they're not 627BPs clones. The fakers didn't even manage to copy them exactly the same on the outside... so thinking that 627BPs have been reverse engineered to replicate them sounds too much optimistic to me.

 Very likely they are cheap opamps rebranded with a fake logo._

 

Ya, I hear ya. Wash off the cheapo, put on new paint. That would suck.


----------



## wquiles

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nearly two months ago, I told you what was going to happen to the 627BPs...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I hope that those of you who were trying to save a few bucks didn't get the fake ones._

 

I missed this earlier. How cheap where these 627BP's? Out of Ebay perhaps? How can you tell they where cheap clones?

 Perhaps something like these are not "real":
Burr Brown OPamp Op amp OPA627BP OPA627AP OPA627 2pcs - eBay (item 360043516202 end time Apr-25-08 20:19:43 PDT)

 or

Matched Pair Burr Brown OPAmp OPA627BP OPA627 OPA637 - eBay (item 140212567895 end time May-02-08 11:04:26 PDT)

 I just want to be informed in case I finaly decide to buy some one of these days!

 Will


----------



## biko

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IMHO they're not 627BPs clones. The fakers didn't even manage to copy them exactly the same on the outside... so thinking that 627BPs have been reverse engineered to replicate them sounds too much optimistic to me.

 Very likely they are cheap opamps rebranded with a fake logo._

 

I think it's safer going SOIC or TO-99 instead of PDIP.

 Everybody can handle PDIPs and put them into a browndog. There is enough demand so it's profitable to counterfeit them. The top side of the package is bigger, so it's easier to sand blasting the markings and reprint them.


----------



## souperman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wquiles* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I missed this earlier. How cheap where these 627BP's? Out of Ebay perhaps? How can you tell they where cheap clones?

 Perhaps something like these are not "real":
Burr Brown OPamp Op amp OPA627BP OPA627AP OPA627 2pcs - eBay (item 360043516202 end time Apr-25-08 20:19:43 PDT)

 or

Matched Pair Burr Brown OPAmp OPA627BP OPA627 OPA637 - eBay (item 140212567895 end time May-02-08 11:04:26 PDT)

 I just want to be informed in case I finaly decide to buy some one of these days!

 Will_

 

From the pictures those seem to be real. Also tube_buyer is a reputable company.


----------



## CountChoculaBot

I don't trust the first guy kind of. Mostly because he's from Hong Kong, though.


----------



## souperman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CountChoculaBot* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't trust the first guy kind of. Mostly because he's from Hong Kong, though._

 

...like I said...they are pretty reputable.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *souperman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From the pictures those seem to be real. Also tube_buyer is a reputable company._

 

I went back and checked, and I was wrong. I got my first set from Lawrence and my second set from tube_buyer. So, I guess I have some checking to do. The second set came about a month ago, and look like the ones in his pic.


----------



## helios4

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CountChoculaBot* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't trust the first guy kind of. Mostly because he's from Hong Kong, though._

 

but you should. I bought the OPAMPs last week from him.
 Most guys in Hong Kong are serious (HK is not China scams)


----------



## CountChoculaBot

Ah, my bad then.

 I'll probably order my OPA627BP's from Tube_buyer, then. Now that I actually bother to look in detail, I can't help but notice the sides are rolled off, which is apparently a very good sign it's not fake.


----------



## tinseljim

Well I finally took the plunge and bought one, with the OPA627s already onboard. Can't wait to hear it!

 Question: What should be the first thing I listen to? I want to hear something new that will impress me with good soundstage and dynamics to show off the Zero! Any recommendations? I like Jazz/World Music/Indie 

 (Lawrence has guaranteed the validity of the OPA627s!)


----------



## vvanrij

Yes! It arrived today! So it took a week to go from Hong Kong to The Netherlands, thats excellent shipping. I'm going to plug it in as soon as I come home (which will be about 4 hrs., pfff) and give you my initial impressions


----------



## fl00r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes! It arrived today! So it took a week to go from Hong Kong to The Netherlands, thats excellent shipping. I'm going to plug it in as soon as I come home (which will be about 4 hrs., pfff) and give you my initial impressions 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That's really fast! Mine was held by customs for 2 weeks and came with an extra charge of €30 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Enjoy!


----------



## vvanrij

Ok I opened it up, checked out the opamps, lifted one up, put it back in. Tried to listen to some music, BOOM. Opened it up again, and yes, I put it back in the wrong way   . So now 1 of my AMP opamps is broken, anybody any solutions?

 Just using the DAC part now, which offcourse still works.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok I opened it up, checked out the opamps, lifted one up, put it back in. Tried to listen to some music, BOOM. Opened it up again, and yes, I put it back in the wrong way   . So now 1 of my AMP opamps is broken, anybody any solutions?

 Just using the DAC part now, which offcourse still works._

 

So, one in the headphone amp is toast? Maybe someone in your area has already swapped out Opamps and can send you their old ones?? Just an idea.


----------



## vvanrij

I already ordered 2x LT1361 and 2x LT1364 from souperman, so I just hope they arrive monday


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I already ordered 2x LT1361 and 2x LT1364 from souperman, so I just hope they arrive monday 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That would be cool! Can you continue burn-in using the DAC section to another amp? Beats doing nothing I guess.


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I already ordered 2x LT1361 and 2x LT1364 from souperman, so I just hope they arrive monday 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

His shipping is REALLY fast, I just ordered some.
 So far, I'm liking the 1364 best, the 1361 not as much. The 1469 is nice and airy, but the 1364's 'fatness' and low end performance is what I like better. Make no mistake though, the differences are VERY subtle. Don't expect miracles.
 I still want to try the 627, but I'm not sure that the $40 + investment is worth such small results.


----------



## vvanrij

The 627's are also already ordered.

 Upcoming week the following should arrive:

 AKG 85
 OPA627x2 + brown dog
 2x LT1364 + 2x LT1361
 Grado SR-325i
 USB -> Spdif
 2x Chopin CD

 Its gonna be a good week 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And Penchum, I'm indeed using the DAC, which is working awesome already! So the burn-in, do I have to do it all again when I plug in the new opamps?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The 627's are also already ordered.

 Upcoming week the following should arrive:

 AKG 85
 OPA627x2 + brown dog
 2x LT1364 + 2x LT1361
 Grado SR-325i
 USB -> Spdif
 2x Chopin CD

 Its gonna be a good week 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And Penchum, I'm indeed using the DAC, which is working awesome already! So the burn-in, do I have to do it all again when I plug in the new opamps?_

 

No. The burn-in is all about the caps in the Zero. Once they are "settled", you should be good to go.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No. The burn-in is all about the caps in the Zero. Once they are "settled", you should be good to go. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Since you aren't using the headphone amp section now, you may have to give it some additional hours later, because it has some caps in it too.


----------



## vvanrij

Ah yes indeed, btw there is no risk in me using the dac now, is there? The amp opamp is really blown up (litteraly to pieces), but as long as the Phone->green light is off, the amp section is not used at all right?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah yes indeed, btw there is no risk in me using the dac now, is there? The amp opamp is really blown up (litteraly to pieces), but as long as the Phone->green light is off, the amp section is not used at all right?_

 

True. You should be fine using the DAC only.


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah yes indeed, btw there is no risk in me using the dac now, is there? The amp opamp is really blown up (litteraly to pieces), but as long as the Phone->green light is off, the amp section is not used at all right?_

 

If you are living near Germany you can have two LT1361 from me... I have free samples from Linear. PM me.


----------



## fl00r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok I opened it up, checked out the opamps, lifted one up, put it back in[.]_

 

Why would you do that for?


----------



## vvanrij

Haha I know its crazy, but its because I wanted to see how it works for when I was going to change the opamps, kmel thank you very much for the offer, but I'm just gonna use the DAC part for now, the opamps should be arriving monday or tuesday.


----------



## vvanrij

Wow my music is so much clearer now :| I had no idea a DAC could have so much influence on the sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I always thought it was more source (file) + amp + headphone


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow my music is so much clearer now :| I had no idea a DAC could have so much influence on the sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I always thought it was more source (file) + amp + headphone_

 

In the portable realm, that may have been closer to the truth, but in the desktop realm, things are much more expanded. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Imagine what that Zero will sound like when you have a better sounding Opamp in there!


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In the portable realm, that may have been closer to the truth, but in the desktop realm, things are much more expanded. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Imagine what that Zero will sound like when you have a better sounding Opamp in there! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I have about 160 hours on mine. The 1324 in the DAC is my favorite so far, it seems to be the best for bass oomph while still being nice to the mids and highs. (I'm alternating between 1429, and 1361 in amp section) For the $8 it cost, it's definitely worth the upgrade. 
 Make no mistake though, to me the difference is at best very subtle. It's by no means 'night and day', or even afternoon to evening... 
 What I'm still puzzling over is whether I should try the 627, but I'm not sure that the $40 or more investment is worth such small results. If there are much better results with the 627 then by all means, but not if it's merely very very slight.
 Is it really that much better?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have about 160 hours on mine. The 1324 in the DAC is my favorite so far, it seems to be the best for bass oomph while still being nice to the mids and highs. (I'm alternating between 1429, and 1361 in amp section) For the $8 it cost, it's definitely worth the upgrade. 
 Make no mistake though, to me the difference is at best very subtle. It's by no means 'night and day', or even afternoon to evening... 
 What I'm still puzzling over is whether I should try the 627, but I'm not sure that the $40 or more investment is worth such small results. If there are much better results with the 627 then by all means, but not if it's merely very very slight.
 Is it really that much better?_

 

This is an area that is dead center in personal tastes. With the Zero driving a nice tube amp, you might get better results from changing driver tubes. The only thing I know for sure, is that more than a hand full of Zero owners, like the OPA627's in the DAC, for driving a separate amp. Hopefully, some of them will chime in and tell you what they think.


----------



## vvanrij

Well I don't have the money to buy a good tube amp, so I wanted the best opamps for in the zero, cause I'm gonna connect my K601 and SR-325i directly to it. Penchum you got me all drooling, I checked out your gear on your profile page 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




!!


----------



## sdgserv

I have the Zero connected up to my MAD EAR HD and also my Dared VP 16 tube amp and the sound has improved in both amps. I am waiting on my fake 627 from China..See how that sounds


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you might get better results from changing driver tubes. ... Hopefully, some of them will chime in and tell you what they think. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I have noticed that the driver tubes make much more difference than the OpAmps... Even in my brand new MKIII, I put my NOS Tung-Sol's in for a few minutes just to see if they work. The difference there was much more obvious than the OpAmps.
 Like you say, I hope some others can chime in on the difference with 627's, and whether it's worth it given the price tag.


----------



## vvanrij

I will do so when I receive them, and offcourse Penchum also commented on the 627's on page 1 (the review).


----------



## CountChoculaBot

Finally bit the bullet on one of these babies. It better come in soon, I'm living off of onboard sound atm


----------



## [S]uds

Well, I just picked up two LT1364 for the Headphone Amp and one LT1469 for the DAC. That should be all I need to replace the OpAmps in the Zero correct? Hopefully they will both be coming soon, can't wait.


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *uds* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I just picked up two LT1364 for the Headphone Amp and one LT1469 for the DAC. That should be all I need to replace the OpAmps in the Zero correct? Hopefully they will both be coming soon, can't wait. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_




I'm actually diggin' the 1364 over the 1469 in the DAC section. Try that as well!


----------



## ianp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is an area that is dead center in personal tastes. With the Zero driving a nice tube amp, you might get better results from changing driver tubes. The only thing I know for sure, is that more than a hand full of Zero owners, like the OPA627's in the DAC, for driving a separate amp. Hopefully, some of them will chime in and tell you what they think. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It will likely come down to personal tastes and what other kit is involved. I have the ZERO feeding a Cayin tube amp and haven't yet found the best overall DAC opamp for my varied musical tastes. Add to that the ability to roll preamp and power tubes and I have quite some combinations to try out. I'm taking my time swapping the opamps and it is very interesting to hear the differences.

 On one hand $40 is not a lot compared to some of the tube prices, but on the other it is $40 that you may not wish to spend if you are happy with the sound that you are hearing.

 -- sorry, should have multo-quoted oatmeal769 and not just penchum


----------



## vvanrij

How do I know that I put the opamp in the right way (so I won't blow them up again on monday)? And another possibility could be 1x1364 in DAC and 2x 1361 in AMP ?


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How do I know that I put the opamp in the right way (so I won't blow them up again on monday)? And another possibility could be 1x1364 in DAC and 2x 1361 in AMP ?_

 

The opamps have a round dot on them. Make sure that the new dot is at the same place as the dot on the old opamp. You can also look at the text. It should be the same way as the old opamps.


----------



## vvanrij

Thanks, also to burn in the DAC, do you have to connect anything? Like right now its connected to my pc, which is sending purple noise to it. And the ZERO is connected to my receiver (which is OFF), should still be burning in right?


----------



## psc001

I just noticed on the Ebay that now Zero comes with the USB connecting device. I'm not sure how good it might be but it just looks like a device that converts the USB into the optical signal for the zero. Now, I might actually buy one to try with the UBS from my pc.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *psc001* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just noticed on the Ebay that now Zero comes with the USB connecting device. I'm not sure how good it might be but it just looks like a device that converts the USB into the optical signal for the zero. Now, I might actually buy one to try with the UBS from my pc._

 

Be careful!!! Snow48_6 was identified earlier this year as a scam artist. He may have gone legit, but we don't know for sure.


----------



## psc001

Who's the other guy that sells the zero on ebay ??? And does he also include this USB converter with his zero?


----------



## Snicewicz

Just curious if anyone has tried to drive HD650s with their zero and how it turned out?

 Well Penchum, I see you have a HD650. How does it sound?

 Also what have you found the HD650 prefers, SS or tube?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ianp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It will likely come down to personal tastes and what other kit is involved. I have the ZERO feeding a Cayin tube amp and haven't yet found the best overall DAC opamp for my varied musical tastes. Add to that the ability to roll preamp and power tubes and I have quite some combinations to try out. I'm taking my time swapping the opamps and it is very interesting to hear the differences.

 On one hand $40 is not a lot compared to some of the tube prices, but on the other it is $40 that you may not wish to spend if you are happy with the sound that you are hearing.

 -- sorry, should have multo-quoted oatmeal769 and not just penchum_

 

I completely agree with what you have said. So many variables! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can share what I've run into so far, just to try and add some "general" thoughts. I tested my first Zero with every combination of Opamps I could get my hands on. So many choices were great, but lacked the proper sound for output to a separate amp. I ended up putting the most neutral sounding tubes I had in my tube amps, and testing the different Opamps in the DAC all over again, to see if I could come up with the "best known" total output.

 No matter how I arranged things, or which amp I was driving, it always came back to the OPA627's in the DAC. Part of this I can attribute to the Senn HD-650 (or so I thought), until others with different headphones chimed in that they had come to the same conclusion.

 This all bothered me greatly, because it was making my life difficult (or more easy) to recommend a decent DAC Opamp! So, I hooked my Zero up to my MKV Solid State Dual Mono headphone amp, to see how I would end up this time. To further change the situation, I used my HD-600's instead of the HD-650s. After several days of swapping Opamps, I ended up back at the OPA627's in the DAC. DAMN! Well, at this point, I ordered my second set of OPA627's on another adapter and gave in. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Understand that this was all about using the Zero as a DAC for other amps. It is very possible to end up with different Opamp combinations, if using the Zero as a DAC and AMP for your headphones. One Opamp stands out in the crowd as a positive force for the DAC, when using the internal headphone amp, the LT1364. There was something very right about putting the LT1364 in the DAC and either the LT1469's or LT1361's in the internal Headphone Amp. Very nice indeed.

 If you were to optimize the DAC output to another amp, lets say the OPA627's on an adapter in the DAC, then figuring out which internal headphone amp Opamps to use becomes much easier. I found that for the HD-600 and HD-650, the LT1364's in the internal headphone amp, worked the best with the OPA627's in the DAC.

 YMMV. IMHO, it is a bunch of testing to take this from ground up to solution.
 I've very burnt out on swapping Opamps, but that wasn't the reason for the solution I came up with. It was all about the best SQ I could find for my amps and setup. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hopefully, what I found out will help others narrow the field a little, so they can find the best for their rigs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 PS: Another aspect of the OPA627's I really liked in the DAC, was the sound stage. It is big and beautiful. I'm listeining to some of my fav tunes right now, using the X-Fi optical out to Zero with OPA627's in the DAC, driving my MKV Solid State Dual Mono Headphone Amp, with my HD-650's. The sound stage is wide and 3D, proper in positioning and very, very dynamic! I just love it!!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Snicewicz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just curious if anyone has tried to drive HD650s with their zero and how it turned out?

 Well Penchum, I see you have a HD650. How does it sound?

 Also what have you found the HD650 prefers, SS or tube?_

 

As you can tell by my previous post, I love it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The nice thing about the HD-650, is the fact that you can use it with a great tube amp or a great SS amp. It has excellent synergy with both, as long as the source is great.


----------



## Snicewicz

Just curious did you prefer the 650s out of the LD MKV or a tube version LD?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Snicewicz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just curious did you prefer the 650s out of the LD MKV or a tube version LD?_

 

Overall, I'd say the best sound I have witnessed so far is using the MKIVse with the HD-650s. I do prefer "overall" the HD-600's with the MKV. Again, it's all about synergy with my equipment. I have a bias for SS, which I got way back in 1977. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Even with that bias, I have found tube amps to be very additive and an excellent platform for headphones. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 All of this, while using the Zero as the DAC for lossless in my PC.


----------



## Snicewicz

Alright thanks for all the info. Its a toss up for me right now between the 701 and 650.

 If i go for the 701 ill get a darkvoice and if i go for the 650 ill get the LD MKV or MKIVse


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered my second set of OPA627's on another adapter and gave in._

 

Does this mean that you sourced the setup as an all in one? If So, could you give us a link? I'm guessing that the whole package will be less expensive (shipping, etc.) if bought from one source.

 Thanks for the awesome mini review as well, My setup is nearly identical to yours, and right now the 1364DAC / 1361 or 1469AMP combo sounds best to me as well. I'm gonna want a 627 DAC too I think, if it's even better.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does this mean that you sourced the setup as an all in one? If So, could you give us a link? I'm guessing that the whole package will be less expensive (shipping, etc.) if bought from one source.

 Thanks for the awesome mini review as well, My setup is nearly identical to yours, and right now the 1364DAC / 1361 or 1469AMP combo sounds best to me as well. I'm gonna want a 627 DAC too I think, if it's even better._

 

I got my second set with the adapter from tube_buyer on ebay. If he doesn't have any listed, send him a note. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Remember, the OPA627's in the DAC were BEST IMHO for output to another amp. If only using the Zero as your DAC and headphone amp, the LT1364 in the DAC and LT1469 or LT1361 in the headphone amp seemed best.


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got my second set with the adapter from tube_buyer on ebay. If he doesn't have any listed, send him a note. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Remember, the OPA627's in the DAC were BEST IMHO for output to another amp. If only using the Zero as your DAC and headphone amp, the LT1364 in the DAC and LT1469 or LT1361 in the headphone amp seemed best._

 

Is he reputable? I.E., what's the result of the whole counterfeit thing?
 Yes, the DAC is mostly to be used with my LD MKIII, and eventually I'd like to get a MKV as well, so I think the 627 is the way to go.

 Not to be off topic, but are you still really stoked on the MK V as a SS choice over your ZERO?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Snicewicz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Alright thanks for all the info. Its a toss up for me right now between the 701 and 650.

 If i go for the 701 ill get a darkvoice and if i go for the 650 ill get the LD MKV or MKIVse_

 

I know several members who love the K701s. I also know more members that are up against the wall, trying to find a way to improve the bass in their K701s. I find this distressing. The old school approach was to buy your equipment and buy headphones for your equipment, not the other way around.

 I get PM's every day from folks looking for a solution to the K701. When I tell them that they might be better off finding a headphone that has no frequency issues, they get a little testy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Some have come back and told me they sold their K701s and bought Senns or other AKG phones and others, and that they couldn't be happier.

 To put this into perspective: If a person buys equipment to accommodate the K701's and is happy, it is a good thing, at least until they want to try another type of headphones, and find out they have a bass heavy system. What do they do then? More equipment? I may love inexpensive audio, but I like it much better if I pay for it once. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Of course YMMV, always IMHO.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is he reputable? I.E., what's the result of the whole counterfeit thing?
 Yes, the DAC is mostly to be used with my LD MKIII, and eventually I'd like to get a MKV as well, so I think the 627 is the way to go.

 Not to be off topic, but are you still really stoked on the MK V as a SS choice over your ZERO?_

 

I haven't emailed him to ask specifically if he is running bad 627's. The ones I got from him seem proper, and more importantly, sound proper. By all means, email him through ebay, if you think it better to do so.

 Yes, I like the MKV way better than the built in headphone amp in the Zero. This comes down to refinement. The Zero's headphone amp, while very nice for this type of application, is more of a "hold over" until you can get another amp to be driven by the Zero. For students, small apartment dwellers and the like, the Zero offers some pretty good sounds for little space and money.

 The MKV is extremely revealing and accurate. Every time I listen to it (daily), I am amazed at it's "purity" of sound. Now, if the house catches on fire, I'll have to grab my MKIVse and my MKV as I head out the door.


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The MKV is extremely revealing and accurate. Every time I listen to it (daily), I am amazed at it's "purity" of sound. Now, if the house catches on fire, I'll have to grab my MKIVse and my MKV as I head out the door. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Damn... That means I'll have to get another Zero to drive it as well, as it (the Zero) only has one set of outputs... Ouch my wallet!
 How do you handle it? You have two, correct?


----------



## oatmeal769

Well, just took the plunge and ordered two opa627BP and an adapter. He said the 627's were only $5 each, hope they're the real deal.


----------



## vvanrij

Penchum how does the Zero amp compare to the LD MK1, as I see in your profle that it sais LD MK1 (L1364) (so it has the same opamp)? Pff I'm brokefibroke and looking for a cheap mkII/III... this has become one expensive hobby.


----------



## vorlonix

my order to Lawrence on ebay still hasnt shipped. is this normal (build-time) or excessive (at this rate, ill be lucky to receive it less than 30 days after ordering)


----------



## T9R

Would the built in amp in the Zero be too much for a low impedance headphone like the AT-AD2000? Or am I over-thinking here?


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *T9R* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would the built in amp in the Zero be too much for a low impedance headphone like the AT-AD2000? Or am I over-thinking here? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The lowest volume can still be a bit much for me when using the AD2000. I rather listen at 60-75dB. For the loudest of albums the lowest volume without channel imbalance approaches 72-75dB.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Damn... That means I'll have to get another Zero to drive it as well, as it (the Zero) only has one set of outputs... Ouch my wallet!
 How do you handle it? You have two, correct?_

 

Ya, it's kinda interesting. My X-FI Extreme Music's I/O Drive (5 1/4 bay) in my PC has both Optical and Coaxial outputs (both active at the same time), so I have Coaxial running up the shelving unit to my first Zero, which drives my MKIVse or my mini-system. At the same time, the Optical out is ran around the outside of the room to another Zero, next to my Vintage Pioneer SPEC system. There, I have it driving the SPEC1 pre-amplifier on AUX1. I have the MKV hooked to one of the pre-amp's record outs. This way, I don't have to have the pre-amp powered up to dub the signal out to the MKV.

 What is really cool is when I have everything running, playing the same source. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This comes in handy when doing comparisons and such. I've been testing a pure tube pre-amp sold on eBay called the Zigma 5687. It has one input and two outputs, using a 5687 Philips tube as driver. So far, it has been a fun little test that I haven't been too serious with yet, but I will in the near future. I'm going to hook it up driven by the first Zero and one output to my mini-system and one output to a tube headphone amp, probably the MKIII.

 The first test of the Zigma 5687 was between the second Zero and my Vintage Pioneer equipment. There, it really did nice things to the Zero's output. Only a slight warmth to the mids is added and nothing else. This made the old analog sound become smoother and warmer! It is a very nice thing for that system, so in the end, that is where it will assume full time duties (I think). Now you know why I call my home office a lab. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 500 pounds of stuff in a 100 pound room. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can vary the amount of "tube" sound by changing to different 5687 tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can't wait to hear the Zigma 5687 hooked up to my mini-system. The thought of a warm sounding T-amp is very exciting! If it works real well, I'll have to share that with others, who have a mini-system built and wish theirs was warmer.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Penchum how does the Zero amp compare to the LD MK1, as I see in your profle that it sais LD MK1 (L1364) (so it has the same opamp)? Pff I'm brokefibroke and looking for a cheap mkII/III... this has become one expensive hobby._

 

Well, the MK1 is the portable LD amp. One of my recommended upgrades for it is to simply remove the LM4562 it comes with and put in an LT1364. It really makes the MK1 sound three times it's asking price. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I did test the MK1 as a desktop amp and it will operate off of the wall wart charging plug without side effects. It does a reasonable job at this because it is higher voltage than most portable amps and can handle the voltage swings associated with better dynamics. It is very impressive for a small portable, but I really believe it belongs in the portable use category. Driven with my Zune80 (very clean MP4 player), it sounds excellent for on the go music. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 The Zune80 is only limited by the on-board sound chip and WMA lossless.

 When push comes to shove though, the Zero's built-in headphone amp is going to do a better job. It has much more power at the ready than a portable has (so far too date) and the ability to change Opamps to a better one like the LT1364 just adds to the overall package. Plus, just having the Zero for it's amp right now, gives you an upgrade path for a separate amplifier later. This makes it logical to purchase and practical as well. I said this a long time ago, "everyone deserves to have a Zero in their rig." and I still believe that.


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vorlonix* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_my order to Lawrence on ebay still hasnt shipped. is this normal (build-time) or excessive (at this rate, ill be lucky to receive it less than 30 days after ordering)_

 

Yes, mine took more than 3 weeks. His shipping times are known to be not so great, but the rest of the deal is fine.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The lowest volume can still be a bit much for me when using the AD2000. I rather listen at 60-75dB. For the loudest of albums the lowest volume without channel imbalance approaches 72-75dB._

 

I was wondering if a set of those impedance adapters would help this situation at all? I heard they are fairly cheap? Thanks!


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was wondering if a set of those impedance adapters would help this situation at all? I heard they are fairly cheap? Thanks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Might be interesting to hear one yes. Wonder where one might find one of these *looks around*.


----------



## vorlonix

Just recieved. wait was worth it. built in amp kicks the crap out of a META42.

 i never thought jumping to a DAC would wow me, but wow.

 I need a bigger HDD for more FLAC music now.


----------



## CountChoculaBot

Ordered it from the guy selling it for $150 shipped. Paid on Friday night, he shipped it out on Saturday, which surprised me a whole lot. Now it's on a plane to San Francisco


----------



## sdgserv

_OPA627 x2 on Brown Dog Adaptor (See pic):
 WOW!! Upon installation, everything is improved! I’m hearing a full spectrum with no deficiencies! The immediate shocker is the sound stage. Nice and wide without being too distant! Vocals are absolutely clear and the highs are clean and detailed. Bass is tight and has a proper presence to it, with punch. This was worth the money for sure! A super upgrade for all music lovers

_I just installed my OPA 627 on a Brown Dog Adapter. The quote above is from the OP and I could not have said it better. The 627 I received is supposed to be a _fake one_. Sent back by someone on this forum. Sound pretty good to me..


----------



## JC_Denton

I have just plugged the OPA627BPs on my Zero and it was...an apocalypse. Just wow, incredible sound. Much better IMO than the LM4562 I have tried earlier. They are DEFINITELY going to stay on my amp


----------



## sdgserv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JC_Denton* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have just plugged the OPA627BPs on my Zero and it was...an apocalypse. Just wow, incredible sound. Much better IMO than the LM4562 I have tried earlier. They are DEFINITELY going to stay on my amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ya Think


----------



## Penchum

Well, what do ya know! My ears haven't failed me yet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 I'm glad the 627's are working out. I double checked my second set last night and they sound wonderful with my MKIVse, so that is enough evidence for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Happy listening everyone!


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got my second set with the adapter from tube_buyer on ebay. If he doesn't have any listed, send him a note. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Remember, the OPA627's in the DAC were BEST IMHO for output to another amp. If only using the Zero as your DAC and headphone amp, the LT1364 in the DAC and LT1469 or LT1361 in the headphone amp seemed best._

 

So, I bought this:
2x Dual to Mono Opamp PCB OPA2604 NE5532 LM358 > OPA627 - eBay (item 220224526344 end time Apr-22-08 11:10:16 PDT)
 But I don't think Raymond understood initially that I wanted 627's with it. After an email or two, I got this:

 " I think I have misunderstand your mean.
 The post is only
 for 2pcs adapter socket, if you need 2 OPA627, we need you add USD28 for
 the deal. "

 My question is if this sounds like the real deal on those opamps - I thought they were a bit more (?) I REALLY don't want counterfeit ones...


----------



## vvanrij

Well thats about the price I paid for at the DIY, but I have yet to receive them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Btw Penchum, I ordered the 1361,1364 and opa 627's. I read in laterl posts that for using the internal amp, its actually better to use 1364->1361 than opa627->1364 (dac->amp). I have a hard time understanding this, could you please explain? And thank you for all your answers and help in this forum, you have made alot of users very happy


----------



## ianp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sdgserv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just installed my OPA 627 on a Brown Dog Adapter. The quote above is from the OP and I could not have said it better. The 627 I received is supposed to be a fake one. Sent back by someone on this forum. Sound pretty good to me.._

 

FWIW I just spent all weekend listening to the DAC with the opa627bp I received from HK and they sound just great. They looked the same as the ones that are apparently fake, but they sound and function just fine.


----------



## mADmAN

ok... i think ive decided on my final setup with the Zero....

 ESI Maya44 -> (ZERO + OPA627AP in DAC) -> (Cute Battery II Headamp + OPA627AP) -> Beyerdynamic DT990 '05.

 the battery has a slighly narrower soundstage than the zero's amp..but i dont really need soundstage since i listen mainly to metal. 

 ive always found the zero's built in headmp a lil weak for the DT990 for some reason...its as if there was some sort of veil to it.. almost muffled..dont get me wrong...they sounded good... but i knew there could be better. the battery has alot more power and alot more detail at the same volume level. everything is crisp and clear and even the bass is tighter and punchier. and more importantly..it didnt sound weak.

 the only issue i have with this setup is that the 627 + browdog is a little "tall". the guy i bought it from placed the 627 in removable sockets so the sockets add to the height. which means i cant close my battery amp properly... LOL

 anyway...i guess i need to get off my scrawny butt and get down to chopping up some Canare L-4E6S for some decent RCA-RCA cables.... currently using the RCA cables that came with my Firestone Audio Fubar II.


----------



## vorlonix

in case anyone had a dying need to see another pic of one.

 /meta42 is redundant now :*(


----------



## T9R

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vorlonix* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_



 in case anyone had a dying need to see another pic of one.

 /meta42 is redundant now :*(_

 

ah, the pretty LEDs!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, I bought this:
2x Dual to Mono Opamp PCB OPA2604 NE5532 LM358 > OPA627 - eBay (item 220224526344 end time Apr-22-08 11:10:16 PDT)
 But I don't think Raymond understood initially that I wanted 627's with it. After an email or two, I got this:

 " I think I have misunderstand your mean.
 The post is only
 for 2pcs adapter socket, if you need 2 OPA627, we need you add USD28 for
 the deal. "

 My question is if this sounds like the real deal on those opamps - I thought they were a bit more (?) I REALLY don't want counterfeit ones..._

 

I think that price is pretty close to what others were paying for them earlier.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well thats about the price I paid for at the DIY, but I have yet to receive them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Btw Penchum, I ordered the 1361,1364 and opa 627's. I read in laterl posts that for using the internal amp, its actually better to use 1364->1361 than opa627->1364 (dac->amp). I have a hard time understanding this, could you please explain? And thank you for all your answers and help in this forum, you have made alot of users very happy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

A lot depends on what headphones and musical tastes. There is always going to be variation in what works best for each person. We get lucky sometimes and have a "consensus" that spans all the different variables, or a group of variables like similar headphones. Sometimes, after hearing all the different Opamps all over again, impressions change, and that is too be expected.

 I guess the easiest way to determine what works best for you, would be to listen to Opamp changes in the DAC, figure out which ones you like, then try combinations using those preferred DAC Opamps.


----------



## vvanrij

and I can use the 627's lt1364 and 1361 in every location (so I don't blow one up again hahaha)


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_and I can use the 627's lt1364 and 1361 in every location (so I don't blow one up again hahaha)_

 

Ya, blowing up is bad.


----------



## Vaughn

ok, my zero is waiting customs inspection and today I received my Singlepower PPX3-6SN7. Monday I will receive my HD650's, which I have owned before but sold.

 Did I mention life is good?


----------



## tinseljim

i've recently received news that mine will be sent out this week!

 no headphones yet though, so will be using as a preamp to my aego 5 (used in 2.1 mode of course).!


----------



## Solid Snake

Hey Penchum. Great review! I was just wondering on how the ZERO compares to the KECES 131/151 DAC and the Yulong DAC? Sorry if this was already mentioned but I do not exactly have the time to read over 280 pages...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			














 Thanks!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Solid Snake* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Penchum. Great review! I was just wondering on how the ZERO compares to the KECES 131/151 DAC and the Yulong DAC? Sorry if this was already mentioned but I do not exactly have the time to read over 280 pages...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	













 Thanks!_

 

Ya, it's getting kind of long. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't know if anyone has made a direct comparison or not. I don't think so. If someone else knows, please chime in.


----------



## yilmaz196

Hi, which opa627 we should get? OPA627BP or OPA627AP. And OPA637AP is suiatble for zero?


----------



## CountChoculaBot

Wow, I ordered last Friday from the $150 shipped guy. It came in today. Shipping is fast, considering it had to go through customs in San Fran on Thursday and got here to Georgia the next day in the noon-ish.

 Just wondering, is anyone else's knob really, really grindy?


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CountChoculaBot* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just wondering, is anyone else's knob really, really grindy?_

 

Yep, but I don't want to spend 15 + shipping to get a better one... I wish there were a better alternative, cuz the stock knob sucks.


----------



## Vaughn

Well, I received the Zero yesterday and I have been listening to it off and on
 since then with the stock opamps...

 I think as it sits it is has a much nicer sounding headphone amp than the unmodded Zhalou 2.5C DAC I used to own. The bass is a little tubby with my
 Denon D2K's, but that might be just because I am hearing them (somewhat) properly amped for the first time. Also, of course, it only has a few hours of play time on it. I'll try it with my HD650's when they arrive here on monday. 

 I plan on using it for the dac feature mostly once I get my Singlepower set up with 5687 adapters... until then the internal amp will work nicely for my lower impedance headphones. Overall it seems like quite a bargain as a stand-alone unit!


----------



## coredump

Just pull it out a bit. That fixed mine. Cost $0.


----------



## vvanrij

Tried that, how hard did you actually pull? Any risk of breaking it? I tried looking inside to see if I could somehow remove the knob, but its seems pretty difficult.


----------



## rpveld

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tried that, how hard did you actually pull? Any risk of breaking it? I tried looking inside to see if I could somehow remove the knob, but its seems pretty difficult._

 

Just pull the plastic knob, it takes a little force the first time but I don't think you can break it. It is not secured with a screw to the spindle.


----------



## kwekeugene

Penchum,

 My current setup is OPA627 (dac) and LT1364 (amp). I'm pretty satisfied with the sound I'm getting. I'm thinking of getting some LM4562 and LME49720 for the amp and pair that with the OPA627 in the DAC.

 My question is how does those opamp sound when paired with OPA627 in the dac?

 Thanks in advance


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kwekeugene* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Penchum,

 My current setup is OPA627 (dac) and LT1364 (amp). I'm pretty satisfied with the sound I'm getting. I'm thinking of getting some LM4562 and LME49720 for the amp and pair that with the OPA627 in the DAC.

 My question is how does those opamp sound when paired with OPA627 in the dac?

 Thanks in advance 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It depends on the headphones used. With the HD-650, I still felt that the LM4562 was overbright, so I went back to the LT1364's in the amp. I've been running both my Zero's this way for a while now, and I think I'm done swapping for a while. The side benefit to this combination is how excellent the DAC output is for other separate amplifiers. This makes it sort of upgrade proofed.


----------



## coredump

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tried that, how hard did you actually pull? Any risk of breaking it? I tried looking inside to see if I could somehow remove the knob, but its seems pretty difficult._

 

The knob is meant to come off by just pulling on it. Pushed all the way in it scrapes the face plate. Of course I'm assuming you got the same knob as me. 

 So I noticed some people are using the LD MKIII with their Zero. What are your impressions when using them together?

 I haven't burned my Zero in yet but my first impression is this thing sounds great with my HD650. Out of the box it sounds much better than my X-fi>MKIII set up. The thing is I'm not even sure if I need the MKIII any more. I really like the sound that comes out of the Zero. When I use my MKIII and the Zero as a preamp I can barley tell the difference. The MKIII might add a tiny bit of punch and some more warmth but I actually liked how the Zero brightened up my HD650. In my opinion they don't need any more warmth.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coredump* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The knob is meant to come off by just pulling on it. Pushed all the way in it scrapes the face plate. Of course I'm assuming you got the same knob as me. 

 So I noticed some people are using the LD MKIII with their Zero. What are your impressions when using them together?

 I haven't burned my Zero in yet but my first impression is this thing sounds great with my HD650. Out of the box it sounds much better than my X-fi>MKIII set up. The thing is I'm not even sure if I need the MKIII any more. I really like the sound that comes out of the Zero. When I use my MKIII and the Zero as a preamp I can barley tell the difference. The MKIII might add a tiny bit of punch and some more warmth but I actually liked how the Zero brightened up my HD650. In my opinion they don't need any more warmth._

 

I had to think about what you said here, but I think I understand now. If you went lossless files to X-FI digital out to Zero, then the Zero's output to the MKIII with HD-650s, this would be pretty good for a stock setup. What I would recommend would be to mature the Zero, and get a better set of driver tubes for your MKIII. Check the MKIII tube rolling thread for some good suggestions on driver tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It will be the biggest bang for the buck you could do.


----------



## coredump

Oh. To simplify I think 

 Zero+MKIII+HD650 sounds about the same as Zero+HD650

 When I first connected the MKIII and Zero I only had some cheap RCA cables and it actually sounded rather bad. I went out and got some nicer shielded/gold plated ones and now the MKIII+Zero sounds fine but not really any better than the Zero by itself.

 I don't think there is a problem or anything but I guess the Zero amp is sounding better than I expected.


----------



## kwekeugene

Thanks for the reply. If that's the case I guess I'll stick with the LT1364. I was looking for some just a slight bit tamer than the LT1364....


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coredump* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh. To simplify I think 

 Zero+MKIII+HD650 sounds about the same as Zero+HD650

 When I first connected the MKIII and Zero I only had some cheap RCA cables and it actually sounded rather bad. I went out and got some nicer shielded/gold plated ones and now the MKIII+Zero sounds fine but not really any better than the Zero by itself.

 I don't think there is a problem or anything but I guess the Zero amp is sounding better than I expected._

 

What type of files are you playing?


----------



## coredump

Lossless, 256, and 128. Trying pretty much everything I got. In some songs I notice a bit more bass extension when I add the LD.

 I think you mentioned this in your original review but it looks like tapping the pre-amp/phones button simply turns off the volume adjustment when using the Zero as a pre-amp.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coredump* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lossless, 256, and 128. Trying pretty much everything I got. In some songs I notice a bit more bass extension when I add the LD.

 I think you mentioned this in your original review but it looks like tapping the pre-amp/phones button simply turns off the volume adjustment when using the Zero as a pre-amp._

 

If headphones are not plugged in, then the pre-amp button switches between line-level DAC output and variable (volume) adjusted DAC output. Very nice when using it as a pre-amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I can't stand to listen to MP3's any more. Even my 320's sound like they are missing something, and I suppose they are.


----------



## coredump

So you only listen to CDs now or some lossless too? I try to buy CDs when I can but sometimes I want a single song and buying the whole album is a waste.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coredump* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So you only listen to CDs now or some lossless too? I try to buy CDs when I can but sometimes I want a single song and buying the whole album is a waste._

 

Most of the time, I buy used CD's off of Amazon, then rip them to lossless. This keeps the cost down and allows me to build a small library that I can re-rip any time I want. So far, I have not received a bad CD out of about 50 or so. Not a bad ratio for sure.


----------



## ascherjim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Most of the time, I buy used CD's off of Amazon, then rip them to lossless. This keeps the cost down and allows me to build a small library that I can re-rip any time I want. So far, I have not received a bad CD out of about 50 or so. Not a bad ratio for sure. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Penchum: I, too, can no longer get any pleasure from listening to mp3 (unless it's to mono recordings I've ripped to that format). But I now usually rip my mono recordings to ogg and listen on my iAudio7, which saves space and seems of equal or better quality to mp3. Which unfortunately has rendered my old Dell DJ pretty useless as it only accommodates mp3. But since you indicate that you rip your cd's to lossless, I assume you find listening to lossless formatted music acceptable. For my similar purposes, I rip my good cd's to flac which my iAudio7 can also accommodate. However, my iAudio7 doesn't provide me the facility to feed a digital signal to my DAC and amplifier. As a consequence, there is really no substitute for me for the quality of a CD, whose digital signal I can feed directly into my DAC, etc.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ascherjim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Penchum: I, too, can no longer get any pleasure from listening to mp3 (unless it's to mono recordings I've ripped to that format). But I now usually rip my mono recordings to ogg and listen on my iAudio7, which saves space and seems of equal or better quality to mp3. Which unfortunately has rendered my old Dell DJ pretty useless as it only accommodates mp3. But since you indicate that you rip your cd's to lossless, I assume you find listening to lossless formatted music acceptable. For my similar purposes, I rip my good cd's to flac which my iAudio7 can also accommodate. However, my iAudio7 doesn't provide me the facility to feed a digital signal to my DAC and amplifier. As a consequence, there is really no substitute for me for the quality of a CD, whose digital signal I can feed directly into my DAC, etc._

 

Ow, I hear ya. Lots of "this won't do that, but that will" problems when trying to keep a full set of your tunes. For my use here in my home office/lab, it is either analog (my fav) or digital off of the computer. I could listen to CDs as the source, but I find the Lossless files very convenient and through the Zero, very nice sounding. When I mix in portable capabilities, things get a little tougher. My Zune80 will do WMA Lossless and no WAVs. My Creative Vision will do WAVs only for lossless. It does make me want to pull my hair out sometimes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have resolved myself to follow a path. I'm ripping every CD I have (and those I will buy in the future) to WAV lossless and keep them on my desktop computer. I also have them backed up to my file server automatically. If I want to put one of them on the Zune80, I convert the WAV to WMA lossless, put them on the Zune80, and thats the end of it. I'm only keeping the WAV files on my desktop from now on. Hard drives are pretty cheap, so space shouldn't become a huge problem anytime soon. Keeping the WAVs as "master copies" will generally allow me to convert to other formats if needed. My CDs stay in their carriers and do not get touched. They are the "golden copy" and will last longer than me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This just seems to make better sense to me and it follows computer backup practices pretty nicely too. When I'm using my notebook, I'll either play the WAVs off of the file server, or pull copies to the notebook over wireless. I don't really keep track of what is on the notebook.


----------



## ascherjim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...This just seems to make better sense to me and it follows computer backup practices pretty nicely too. When I'm using my notebook, I'll either play the WAVs off of the file server, or pull copies to the notebook over wireless. I don't really keep track of what is on the notebook. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I follow similar, but slightly more complex, practices. I don't use (or have) a file server, but I keep preferred ripped CD's in flac, mp3 (320) or ogg (and sometimes in all three!) variously on my PC's and notebook's hard drives, as well as on a back-up external hard drive. You're right. Hard drive memory is cheap. But for the best sound, where it matters to me, I still prefer digital signals derived from coaxial or optical line-out ports on my DVD/CD players (deck and portable).


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ascherjim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I follow similar, but slightly more complex, practices. I don't use (or have) a file server, but I keep preferred ripped CD's in flac, mp3 (320) or ogg (and sometimes in all three!) variously on my PC's and notebook's hard drives, as well as on a back-up external hard drive. You're right. Hard drive memory is cheap. But for the best sound, where it matters to me, I still prefer digital signals derived from coaxial or optical line-out ports on my DVD/CD players (deck and portable)._

 

That's cool. It's all about doing what works best for you. I've been unwilling to go with more expensive portable equipment so far, but my needs for portability are small. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My favorite (non-portable) method of recording and playback, is to make Master 1/2 or 1/4 track tape recordings at 15ips on one of my Technics Reel to Reels, off of Vinyl. There is something special about analog done correctly. I also use a Zero as a bridge to play digital over my Vintage analog systems. It works really nice too.

 All in all, I have a pretty good ear for quality sound and I've been insistent about ear protection my whole life. I have always used inner ear plugs and outer ear protection at the same time. I think it's paying off now that I can look back a ways. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think life would suck, if I couldn't hear worth a crap. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Have a good one!


----------



## ascherjim

Penchum;4139341 said:
			
		

> That's cool. It's all about doing what works best for you. I've been unwilling to go with more expensive portable equipment so far, but my needs for portability are small.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


 I've been slowly converting my vinyl to mp3. Maybe I should just be converting it to a straight taped analogue format. I haven't tried experimenting with the resulting sound qualify with my new headphone amplifier.

 You are so lucky, and smart. I have suffered with advancing age a significant mid-range hearing loss, which I'm managing to overcome in my music listening with a recent purchase of a BBE VG Sonic Maximizer, which seems to have helped a good bit. Life for me would lose, and has lost, significant flavor without being able to fully enjoy music. 
 

I thought you might be coming from the portables madness. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm glad you've "seen the light" and are now looking at home/desktop stereo type goods. Heck, just sell any "excess" portable equipment. The extra cash will come in handy when researching/buying desktop goods. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There are many folks outside of HeadFi (and some inside) that really like older analog solid state for it's sound quality and incredible build quality. I became an audiophile during the mid 1970's, so it has been in my blood ever since. I except digital because it is here and it is cheap to obtain, and I have worked hard to have digital and analog compliment each other. I don't really mind tape hiss that much, because I can get rid of it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Sonic Maximizer is a damn good idea for helping with the hearing losses. I know it won't compensate completely, but it will help especially with headphones. It is never too late to become "over protective" with your hearing, and save what is left from further damage. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wish some of the younger guys and gals would do more about protecting their hearing. Things they do today, will come back to haunt them 20-30 years from now.

 If your albums are in excellent condition, having a lossless format of them would really be great (for daily use). When I record with my RTR, I use new tape from RMG and record it a little hot (+6-+9) for added dynamics. This has worked out very nicely and I do listen to my tapes from time to time with my MKV SS headphone amp and HD-600s. I know this isn't for everyone, but for those of us who lived it once before, it is the equivalent of a "re-birth" into music.

 Once I get this room properly arranged, I'm going to experiment heavily with recording vinyl to lossless formats, to see if I can get it to retain all the nuances that analog has by default. I have high hopes, especially for the ability to fix a bad mix in analog, prior to digital conversion. I have a few albums that really could use a little help in the mix/fix department. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Have a good one!


----------



## ascherjim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought you might be coming from the portables madness. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm glad you've "seen the light" and are now looking at home/desktop stereo type goods. Heck, just sell any "excess" portable equipment. The extra cash will come in handy when researching/buying desktop goods. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There are many folks outside of HeadFi (and some inside) that really like older analog solid state for it's sound quality and incredible build quality. I became an audiophile during the mid 1970's, so it has been in my blood ever since. I except digital because it is here and it is cheap to obtain, and I have worked hard to have digital and analog compliment each other. I don't really mind tape hiss that much, because I can get rid of it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Sonic Maximizer is a damn good idea for helping with the hearing losses. I know it won't compensate completely, but it will help especially with headphones. It is never too late to become "over protective" with your hearing, and save what is left from further damage. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wish some of the younger guys and gals would do more about protecting their hearing. Things they do today, will come back to haunt them 20-30 years from now.

 If your albums are in excellent condition, having a lossless format of them would really be great (for daily use). When I record with my RTR, I use new tape from RMG and record it a little hot (+6-+9) for added dynamics. This has worked out very nicely and I do listen to my tapes from time to time with my MKV SS headphone amp and HD-600s. I know this isn't for everyone, but for those of us who lived it once before, it is the equivalent of a "re-birth" into music.

 Once I get this room properly arranged, I'm going to experiment heavily with recording vinyl to lossless formats, to see if I can get it to retain all the nuances that analog has by default. I have high hopes, especially for the ability to fix a bad mix in analog, prior to digital conversion. I have a few albums that really could use a little help in the mix/fix department. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Have a good one! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Much grateful for your thoughts and sharing of experience through your most recent and other past postings throughout the forum. I believe my horizons have widened significantly as a result, resulting clearly in more satisfying music listening and appreciation for me.


----------



## coredump

I'm still on my first 10 hours with the Zero and about every 10 to 15 minutes I get a very loud pop. I'd hoped it would stop after some burn in but it doesn't seem like it's going to. Any ideas?


----------



## Frwkie

Hi coredump,
 I noticed a 'pop' sound while turning on or off the pre-amp knob, but that was due to the fact that i inserted the opamps in the wrong direction. So, maybe you can try other opamps. 
 But, if I understand you correctly, in your situation it occurs when doing nothing special? No correlation with turning on/off light buttons or electrical devices somewhere else in your home?


----------



## coredump

No correlation yet. I've been kind of busy but I'll have a few hours tomorrow to listen again. It seems like it does it more when I first turn it on.


----------



## oldson

just got my zero today.
 problem is , it is too quiet from the built in amp!
 is there a gain adjuster in the unit??
 thanks


----------



## Frwkie

I've the same type of problem with my tube amplifier. The zero's output is 2.5V, while most cd-players nowadays have 5V (correct me if I'm wrong), and therefore I have to turn the volume almost fully open. I'm currently using the zero's pre-amp function to get a higher output signal.


----------



## CountChoculaBot

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_just got my zero today.
 problem is , it is too quiet from the built in amp!
 is there a gain adjuster in the unit??
 thanks_

 

Did you press the preamp button after putting the phones in? Be sure to turn the knob all the way down if so, though. Wouldn't want to blow your eardrums


----------



## oldson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CountChoculaBot* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you press the preamp button after putting the phones in? Be sure to turn the knob all the way down if so, though. Wouldn't want to blow your eardrums 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

you know how to make someone feel a right PLANK!
 thanks for that. could i possibly get away with blaming chinese manual??


 NO i thought not
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 sounds great now (to my none audiofile ears, that is)
 thanks again


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_just got my zero today.
 problem is , it is too quiet from the built in amp!
 is there a gain adjuster in the unit??
 thanks_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you know how to make someone feel a right PLANK!
 thanks for that. could i possibly get away with blaming chinese manual??


 NO i thought not
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 sounds great now (to my none audiofile ears, that is)
 thanks again_

 

Congratulations! Just know that your Zero loves you anyway. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Let us know how the "maturing" goes. Have a good one!


----------



## king756

Blimey, this thread has certainly increased in size since I last looked and purchased my Zero.

 Me and the girlfriend got our own place recently so not had any nagging parents and thus no need to use the Zero with my HD650's as much.

 However I got the zero connected to my computer via optical and some M-Audio DX4 active monitors connected. It's sounding pretty good used in this setup as well as a headphone setup. I think my HD650's have a darker sound with more base than the DX4's but they are only small monitors.

 I have been using the 1469 and 1364 op amp combo without problem since I brought the zero (a few month ago). Was their some issues with people reporting this combo over heating in this thread i think i remembered reading? theirs a lot to go through since I last looked.


----------



## vvanrij

Wow the tip to pull out the knob worked excellent, its really smooth now


----------



## oatmeal769

I finally installed 627BP's and brown dog purchased from our 'HK connection'. Compared to the other OpAmps I've tried, I'd say the difference is that the soundstage is just a bit larger and more '3D' like, and the 627 presents the most 'flat' profile of any I've tested. These differences are at most VERY subtle and open to huge amounts of psychoacoustic interpretation.
 HOWEVER...
 I had expected *much* more based on multiple posts here and elsewhere on this forum. My experience with these is similar to that with tubes. Specifically, the differences are at most extremely small and finite. Let me explain...

 When someone says the difference of so and so versus this and that is 'night and day', or 'huge' or 'incredible', I expect big things. My idea of 'night and day' as it applies to listening to music reproduced electronically would be analgous to the difference between a small handheld A.M. transistor radio, and a $10,000 home stereo system. Yeah, it's the same song, but wow, the quality difference is indeed 'night and day' just as nightime versus daytime may occur in the same place, but the difference is indeed profound, and plainly visible to any sighted being.

 Maybe I need to get my definitions straight, but how do you guys quantify 'amazing, like night and day' when used with the tiniest of differences like op-amps to something really big?


----------



## powertoold

Good point oatmeal. I think the basis of their comments lies on the fact that any sort of imperfection in music will ruin your experience. For example, even if there is only a 5% improve in sound quality, but a certain harshness at a specific frequency is gone, then you won't listen to the music thinking, "argh! when will I hear that damn harshness again". When your equipment is good to the point where you can just listen to it with full confidence and without expecting anything that will disappoint you, then your enjoyment is much higher; therefore, even if there is a small improvement over your last piece of hardware, you will think, "oh man, this is a night and day difference."

 Overall, the experience of music is very psychological.

 I've had this experience where there is a certain and almost imperceptible imperfection (to most people) to my earphones (FreQs), and once it was gone, I enjoyed my FreQs much more!

 I hope that helps.


----------



## szlnk

I got the BrownDog adapter from Cimarron, but I'm not sure what is the right direction to insert the LT1122 opamps to it and then insert it to Zero. Is this the right direction what is pictured below? The OPA2604 on the left side is used to show the reference position (as if it was inserted in that position into Zero).


----------



## prospero21

Hey all,

 first of all I'd like to thank you guys for the _hours_ of reading pleasure this topic gave me.

 I have recently obtained a Sennheiser HD-580 and an AKG K-340 and I'm thoroughly enjoying them, but I always thought something was missing. When I heard the Senn and the AKG through a dedicated headamp I knew... These cans really shine when they are properly amped! So I went on a "quest" to find a good, yet affordable headamp and this lead me here... 

 So I ordered a Zero from Lawrence on Ebay and while im still waiting for the unit to be delivered, but so far I'm very pleased with the way Lawrence handles his sales. 

 Based on some suggestions in this thread, I decided to buy an opamp upgrade right away, in the form of 2x OPA627AU (the SOIC version which is soldered to the module on both sides, this way its supposed to fit in the headamp) on a brown-dog module for the DAC and the headamp as well. I'm also ordering some of the other suggestions you guys came up with and I'm ready for the opamp-rolling adventure to start 

 Seriously, this is my first time doing just that, but there's a first time for everything, right ?

 For now, I have nothing further to add but the fact that I'm anxiously awaiting the arrival of the Zero and shipping from China to the Netherlands takes WAY to long 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks again guys and I'll be sure to post my findings as soon as the unit arrives. Take care


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *king756* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Blimey, this thread has certainly increased in size since I last looked and purchased my Zero.

 Me and the girlfriend got our own place recently so not had any nagging parents and thus no need to use the Zero with my HD650's as much.

 However I got the zero connected to my computer via optical and some M-Audio DX4 active monitors connected. It's sounding pretty good used in this setup as well as a headphone setup. I think my HD650's have a darker sound with more base than the DX4's but they are only small monitors.

 I have been using the 1469 and 1364 op amp combo without problem since I brought the zero (a few month ago). Was their some issues with people reporting this combo over heating in this thread i think i remembered reading? theirs a lot to go through since I last looked._

 

It was recommended to put a stick on cooler to the LT1364, if installed in the DAC position. Most are using the OPA627's on the adapter in this position. I haven't found a "cheap" source for the stick on coolers yet. Anyone find a cheap source??


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *szlnk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got the BrownDog adapter from Cimarron, but I'm not sure what is the right direction to insert the LT1122 opamps to it and then insert it to Zero. Is this the right direction what is pictured below? The OPA2604 on the left side is used to show the reference position (as if it was inserted in that position into Zero)._

 

There is a notch in the adapter to signify the pin 1 end. Put the chips on with their little circle thingy pointed the same way as the notch.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I finally installed 627BP's and brown dog purchased from our 'HK connection'. Compared to the other OpAmps I've tried, I'd say the difference is that the soundstage is just a bit larger and more '3D' like, and the 627 presents the most 'flat' profile of any I've tested. These differences are at most VERY subtle and open to huge amounts of psychoacoustic interpretation.
 HOWEVER...
 I had expected *much* more based on multiple posts here and elsewhere on this forum. My experience with these is similar to that with tubes. Specifically, the differences are at most extremely small and finite. Let me explain...

 When someone says the difference of so and so versus this and that is 'night and day', or 'huge' or 'incredible', I expect big things. My idea of 'night and day' as it applies to listening to music reproduced electronically would be analgous to the difference between a small handheld A.M. transistor radio, and a $10,000 home stereo system. Yeah, it's the same song, but wow, the quality difference is indeed 'night and day' just as nightime versus daytime may occur in the same place, but the difference is indeed profound, and plainly visible to any sighted being.

 Maybe I need to get my definitions straight, but how do you guys quantify 'amazing, like night and day' when used with the tiniest of differences like op-amps to something really big?_

 

Indeed this is the constant struggle with human interpretation in audio. But it has clear roots in the past (thanks to digital) and is not easily overcome. Much of audio is about the last 10% of sound quality. The system you have most likely rates in the 90-92% area, and you would have to spend big bucks to extend your sound quality, even by as little as 1 or 2% more. This is where the terms sound like big stuff, but really are very small improvements in the overall picture of sound quality. So, yes, you have to "self interpret" the meanings as they apply to your system's current standing, in the overall picture of sound quality.

 If I read that chip so and so is hugely better than the chip I'm using, I read between the lines and think, "A good chip to write down somewhere, for later" and I move on. If I listen to someones description of a change, and their system is very similar to mine, I do a quick cost vs. gain study, to see if it might be worth my time and cash. Most of the time, it is not. This is the way things present themselves in audio and it can be difficult sometimes.

 Inexpensive audio is an answer to some of these difficulties. If I can show people how to get into the 90 percentile without breaking the bank, they will be very satisfied and have more to spend on music, which is the most important part. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Tweaking inexpensive audio to sound even better, is fun and sometimes very rewarding. You can tell by looking at this thread. Ups and downs, lefts and rights, but in the end, some nice improvements float to the top of the pile for others to take advantage of.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *prospero21* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey all,

 first of all I'd like to thank you guys for the _hours_ of reading pleasure this topic gave me.

 I have recently obtained a Sennheiser HD-580 and an AKG K-340 and I'm thoroughly enjoying them, but I always thought something was missing. When I heard the Senn and the AKG through a dedicated headamp I knew... These cans really shine when they are properly amped! So I went on a "quest" to find a good, yet affordable headamp and this lead me here... 

 So I ordered a Zero from Lawrence on Ebay and while im still waiting for the unit to be delivered, but so far I'm very pleased with the way Lawrence handles his sales. 

 Based on some suggestions in this thread, I decided to buy an opamp upgrade right away, in the form of 2x OPA627AU (the SOIC version which is soldered to the module on both sides, this way its supposed to fit in the headamp) on a brown-dog module for the DAC and the headamp as well. I'm also ordering some of the other suggestions you guys came up with and I'm ready for the opamp-rolling adventure to start 

 Seriously, this is my first time doing just that, but there's a first time for everything, right ?

 For now, I have nothing further to add but the fact that I'm anxiously awaiting the arrival of the Zero and shipping from China to the Netherlands takes WAY to long 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Thanks again guys and I'll be sure to post my findings as soon as the unit arrives. Take care 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

From what I've read, AKG K-340 seem to be one of the most demanding phones there is. I really doubt that the Zero amp can do them any kind of justice.


----------



## prospero21

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From what I've read, AKG K-340 seem to be one of the most demanding phones there is. I really doubt that the Zero amp can do them any kind of justice._

 

I think you are right. The main reason I bought the Zero is to have a clean audio-source and ofcourse to amp the Sennheiser. I will wait and see how the AKG performs...


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *prospero21* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think you are right. The main reason I bought the Zero is to have a clean audio-source and ofcourse to amp the Sennheiser. I will wait and see how the AKG performs..._

 

Still sounds like a workable upgrade path though. If the AKG's require a separate amp, you could use the Zero's amp for the Senn's, until you purchase the separate amp and drive it with the Zero's DAC output. What is the story with those AKG's anyway? Are they 600Ohm or something?


----------



## vvanrij

more than 600ohm?

 Anyway just got the LT1361's and LT1364's. Currently I have the standard opamp in the DAC, and installed the 1364's in the amp section. I read it was better to have 1364 in DAC and 1361's in AMP, but that it gives heat issues? Abit afraid to try because I destroyed my opamp the first day I got the Zero, so this is my first listen to the Zero amp, and I'm loving it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




! Its got loads of power, and the sound has really improved over my Denon AVR-Receiver headphone out.


----------



## vvanrij

ow an Penchum, you mention the 'tube kind of sound' in the standard configuration of the zero. I would like to know if that is the DAC opamp or the AMP opamps that is causing that. I want to improve the sound, but not at the cost of the 'tube' sound.


----------



## Vaughn

I am having a problem with my Zero periodically, and seemingly randomly, shutting itself off. This is preceded by a low static "whoosh" sound. It has
 happened when I am using the headphone amp and when I am just using the DAC. I can turn it back on and it works fine but it is a little disconcerting.

 Has anyone else experienced this?


----------



## vvanrij

Have you changed any opamps? Maybe try the standard opamps and see if it does the same?


----------



## coredump

Well it seems the static popping I was hearing was caused by my X-Fi card. I switched to the realtek and no more popping. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Stupid X-Fi 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 Now the only concern I have is that the realtek only works at 96KHz. I when I use the 192KHz setting I don't get any sound. Can anyone else get 192KHz out of their realtek?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ow an Penchum, you mention the 'tube kind of sound' in the standard configuration of the zero. I would like to know if that is the DAC opamp or the AMP opamps that is causing that. I want to improve the sound, but not at the cost of the 'tube' sound._

 

Well, I believe the "tube like" sound was mostly the OPA2604 in the DAC. One of the upgrade DAC Opamps, the two OPA627's on the adapter in the DAC, have a "tube like" warmth to them as well, so if you decided to use them, I don't think you would be loosing anything. One thing I would make sure of first, is that the Zero is totally matured with at least 100 hours of play time. This will give you a maximized perspective on the default sound, so changes will stand out easier.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Vaughn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am having a problem with my Zero periodically, and seemingly randomly, shutting itself off. This is preceded by a low static "whoosh" sound. It has
 happened when I am using the headphone amp and when I am just using the DAC. I can turn it back on and it works fine but it is a little disconcerting.

 Has anyone else experienced this?_

 

The only time this happened to me, was when I was passing static electricity through the headphone cord, and didn't know I was.


----------



## scaz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It was recommended to put a stick on cooler to the LT1364, if installed in the DAC position. Most are using the OPA627's on the adapter in this position. I haven't found a "cheap" source for the stick on coolers yet. Anyone find a cheap source??_

 

These sound like they would be perfect if they where in stock.

Newegg.com - Thermaltake A1933 Aluminum Heatsinks only - Memory & Chipset Cooling

 What about these. They are probably too big, but they are not very high. I might buy two and try to cut one of them in half or quarters.

eBay Express: Northbridge/VGA Passive HEATSINK Stick-On 1.5" NEW - Description


----------



## Gaco

Hey guys!

 Hehe I don't know if anyone remember me anymore, I was posting a few times some 100 pages back, somewhere around november/december 2007 I was looking for a headamp and chose the Zero. I even chose some custom opamps, don't remember which anymore. I recieved it in mid-february and was ready to hook it up for my X-Fi via optical... but then I found out that I needed a toslink cable with a square plug in the one end for the Zero but a round one in the other for the soundcard. D'oh. I was trying to pull myself together but didn't get the cable until today. Silly I know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just got it playing! However I have a question. The sound level is REALLY low when I plug and play. However if I turn on "Preamp" the sound is all there loud as it should be. But I thought Preamp mode should only be used in conjunction with another amplifier, which I don't have? I don't get it


----------



## Gaco

But the sound is really good!! I'm just sitting here being one big smile listening to the tunes of Guns n' Roses and Genesis in lossless FLAC on with my HD600's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Definently an improvement from before, no placebo involved. Especially noticable at higher volumes. So crystal clear, defined and, you if want, god damn loud with little to no distortion!

 But I still need answer to the preamp thing and I also need to figure out how to make the sound go directly through without being accessed by windows software. I've heard this mode can be confirmed if you can't control the volume via windows in any way but only on the knob on the headamp


----------



## Penchum

The pre-amp button does two things.

 If you have a headphone plugged into the Zero's headphone jack, press the pre-amp button, the green light comes on, you are in headphone amp mode. The volume knob varies the headphone amp output.

 If you don't have headphones plugged into the Zero, a constant line-out level is sent to the DAC output jacks in the back (for going to another amplifier). If you then press the Pre-amp button, green light on, the volume knob will vary the output going to the jacks in the back, making it work like a true pre-amp for a separate amp.


----------



## vvanrij

Well beneath the light it sis Pre-Amp, but above the light it sais Phone. Either way, the light has to be burning for the amp section to work (and thus the volume knop).

 edit: haha Penchum you beat me to it!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well beneath the light it sis Pre-Amp, but above the light it sais Phone. Either way, the light has to be burning for the amp section to work (and thus the volume knop).

 edit: haha Penchum you beat me to it!_

 

Hehehe, I've answered that one a few times now! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 It is a pretty cool feature. I have used the pre-amp feature to drive portable amps before, since they don't usually like line-level output.


----------



## vvanrij

A little off-topic question here, but maybe you know the answer to it Penchum. If I use the pre-amp function on the zero, and connect it to my Denon AVR Receiver, and turn the zero up, and also the denon. Will that give me effectivly more power (more volume), or will the denon receiver not allow that (since its max pwr is 75watt) ?


----------



## Gaco

Oh that makes total sense, stupid me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway I forgot what this function/technology was called where the music goes directly and unprocessed through to the soundcard and out to the amp. A particular mode that I think you can make for example FOOBAR 2000 support. Anyone knows about this?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A little off-topic question here, but maybe you know the answer to it Penchum. If I use the pre-amp function on the zero, and connect it to my Denon AVR Receiver, and turn the zero up, and also the denon. Will that give me effectivly more power (more volume), or will the denon receiver not allow that (since its max pwr is 75watt) ?_

 

The variable pre-amp output will not go higher than the line-level output mode, so no, it will just be variable at the Zero's knob as well.


----------



## vvanrij

Hmm I tested it (pre-amp off/on) and it actually goes louder than line-level if I turn the knob past 2/3's. Speakers started making popping sounds so I stopped it, maybe its better to use it without the pre-amp light on


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm I tested it (pre-amp off/on) and it actually goes louder than line-level if I turn the knob past 2/3's. Speakers started making popping sounds so I stopped it, maybe its better to use it without the pre-amp light on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I guess I should have qualified that with a "without distorting". Popping speakers can't be good. Using line level is your best bet and then control the volume from your receiver. Much safer that way. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If the variable output allows you to drive the Zero into distorting, the receiver doesn't know any better, and it amplifies that distortion as well. It can get ugly fast. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 On a side note, nothing you can buy will increase the output of your receiver without the receiver quickly going into distortion. What it is rated at is about as good as it will get, without distortion taking over and grilling your speakers. With everything running cleanly below the max ratings, you should be able to get some excellent volume out of the receiver, when you need it. If not, then other issues have to be looked at, like efficiency of the speakers and so on.


----------



## Kezzbot

Anyone tryed OPA627AU in both the dac and amp?


----------



## Kezzbot

or any 627 in both dac and amp for that matter.


----------



## windrider

Anyone has had any experience with using zero as both DAC and amp for the dt880 600ohms version? Is it a worthy match for it?

 Am worried that it may not be good enough to power the 600ohms dt880 as well as compared to the 250 ohms version... tho i do prefer the smoother sound of the 600ohms.

 Anyone with any experience with this setup please do give me some insight on this. Much appreciated.


----------



## vvanrij

On the ebay site it sais that it whould be well capable of driving 600ohm headphones.

 There was someone who tried 627's in both dac and amp. Expensive trick because you'd have to buy 6 627's en 3 brown dog's. SQ-wise I haven't heard its any better than a 627/1364 combination (which is cheaper).


----------



## tinseljim

I'm about to receive my Zero with both sets of 627s and will let you know how things get on.

 I seem to remember someone else on this forum having done it though.

 James


----------



## jujulio

Hi, i am looking to buy myself my first DAC/amp setup, recently purchased sennheiser's HD650. First i thought of buying keces 151+little dot mkv..but a little short on money. So the zero seemed a good match for my budget....but it has no usb input like the keces and i am not familiar with coaxial

 so my question: how do you get it to work with any laptop? do i need converter/connectors? or do i need to change the sound card? if so im better off with the keces, even though it costs much :s


----------



## vvanrij

You can buy usb->spdif solutions pretty cheap, I bought one on ebay for about 15dollar (from china offcourse 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), you just plug it in your usb port, and connect it to your zero. The zero comes with 1 optical cable.


----------



## Kezzbot

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There was someone who tried 627's in both dac and amp. Expensive trick because you'd have to buy 6 627's en 3 brown dog's. SQ-wise I haven't heard its any better than a 627/1364 combination (which is cheaper)._

 

I think the 627AU version is a Dual op-amp so only 3 are needed.

 Well i just ordered my Zero!

 Cant wait.


----------



## jujulio

isn't coax better than optical? (regarding jitter if i am correct)


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jujulio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_isn't coax better than optical?_

 

Implemented properly, both should work fine. With the Zero, many have reported no difference between the two. I use both, and can't tell a difference either.


----------



## jujulio

thanks, any link to buy a usb/optical or coax converter?
 this one right? DIGITAL PCLINK USB-SPDIF FOR AUDIO , UDA1321 / CS8405A - eBay (item 330231755229 end time May-04-08 05:43:50 PDT)


----------



## vvanrij

This is the one I bought 

NEW USB to SPDIF & OPTICAL Adapter UDA1321/CS8405A - eBay (item 260228100803 end time Apr-17-08 08:12:54 PDT)

 I should receive it next week.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is the one I bought 

NEW USB to SPDIF & OPTICAL Adapter UDA1321/CS8405A - eBay (item 260228100803 end time Apr-17-08 08:12:54 PDT)

 I should receive it next week._

 

Unfortunately the DIGITAL PCLINK seem to have a rather large amount of jitter
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




DIGITAL PCLINK USB-SPDIF FOR AUDIO , UDA1321 / CS8405A - eBay (item 330231755229 end time May-04-08 05:43:50 PDT)


----------



## vvanrij

Blast it, does that mean the thing I just ordered is bad quality? I currently use a external 5.1 USB Live from creative...


----------



## direcow

what would be a good one to buy to reduce jitter?


----------



## jujulio

actually he was referring to my link not mine

COMPUTER BASED RECORDING - AUDIO/MIDI INTERFACES - U-CONTROL UCA202 : Ultra low-latency 2 In/2 Out USB/Audio Interface with Digital Output

Newegg.com - Turtle Beach Audio Advantage Micro Virtual 5.1 Surround Sound Channels USB Interface Sound Card - Sound Cards

 these ones might be good
 does anyone know of a rather cheap but good solution?


----------



## vvanrij

Hmm they have the same chipset, hopefully not the same problems. How will I notice this 'jitter' when listening to music?


----------



## tinseljim

The Trends Audio USB is supposed to be one of the better transports. I believe there is a review on 6moons about it:

6moons audio reviews: Trends Audio TA-10

 looks good!


----------



## djembeplay

Hmm, Ok, I think I have scrounged through the many pages in this thread enough at this point...

 I have a couple questions.

 The one that seems like it should logically come first is... how will this amp perform with stock k701s? 

 I don't have the phones or an amp yet. My plan is to recable the 701s and pick up a balanced amp ultimately... but how long will that be, I don't know... So I'm looking for a cheap solution that will give me some decent sound through stock K701s. I also need a built-in DAC as well. Would it be easy to say that the Zero would be my best option within the 'under $250' price range?

 I've seen alot of talk about the Octavart One (which I can't find for sale anywhere)

 Thanks for the input...


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm they have the same chipset, hopefully not the same problems. How will I notice this 'jitter' when listening to music?_

 

some links:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f7/wha...d-like-317981/ <--- Head-fi
Jitter explained - Part 1.4 [English]
welcome to www.jitter.de
Stereophile: Jitter, Bits, & Sound Quality
Jitter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


 I think that the Zero isn't the best when it comes to jitter, or it's my Xfi which is not the best transport. Either way, I think that I hear it in the Zero. It's a kind of unclearness, masking of detail/texture, blurr. It would be very interesting if there was something which could be done about it, which does not include a rather expensive Trends Audio USB. I'm sure it's good, but to get a fix which cost as much as the dac itself is not really ideal unless the fix takes the dac to a whole new level.

 I think I hear it when comparing the Xfi analog out and the Cowon D2 to the Zero. With the LD MKIII, I find the Zero to sound the best of the three over-all, but it does seem to have something in the sound which the other two don't have (at least as much of). I think this something is jitter (I do not know if it's the xfi digital out or the Zero digital in which has the problem). 

 So, anyone else heard or think they heard this I describe? Or is it something in my setup which causes it?


----------



## vvanrij

Hmm when I switched from my Denon receiver to the Zero's DAC, everything became much clearer, so it doesn't seem like I suffer from the jitter. I did hear somebody else having trouble with the x-fi - zero combo, he took out the x-fi and his problems were solved (couple of pages back). I see you have the 1364-1361 combo, do you have a heating problem? I have some 1361's lying here (and have 1364's installed) so I'm kind of curious if I could improve my SQ


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm when I switched from my Denon receiver to the Zero's DAC, everything became much clearer, so it doesn't seem like I suffer from the jitter. I did hear somebody else having trouble with the x-fi - zero combo, he took out the x-fi and his problems were solved (couple of pages back). I see you have the 1364-1361 combo, do you have a heating problem? I have some 1361's lying here (and have 1364's installed) so I'm kind of curious if I could improve my SQ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I now changed to my onboard spdif out. I "think" that it sounds better, but I can't say for sure yet.

 I have the opa627ap in the dac now, not sure if I have a fake or not, but it sound good at least. The LT1364 was a bit to warm when paired with the LD MKIII. When I did have LT1364 I did not have any problems with it. It might have gotten warm, but I haven't noticed anything, and have not had any problem with it. I do not however think that the LT1361 in the amp were warm.

 I liked the LT1364 + LT1361 though. I would say that they synergize well with each other.

 EDIT: I'm pretty sure something has changed in the sound. I'm not sure what it is. I'm not even sure my onboard soundcard is bitperfect or if it's 48khz.

 EDIT2: It does seem to be able to do everything from 44khz to 192khz.


----------



## djembeplay

If your files are ripped from a CD, which is at 44khz, you may be better off not over-sampling anyways...


----------



## djembeplay

Anyone have any input for my last questions?


----------



## Henmyr

This actually seem to work
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I switched to the internal optical out, and at first, there was a distinct lack of bass. I installed new drivers and now use asioforall. I think that it actually sounds like it should now. So far I can't detect this masking of detail


----------



## djembeplay

Oh ya... if your on any windows prior to Vista, asio4all is supposedly essential.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djembeplay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh ya... if your on any windows prior to Vista, asio4all is supposedly essential._

 

I used Xfi asio drivers before. I do use vista however, but still like to use asio to be on the safe side.


----------



## vvanrij

Glad it works, the zero rocks!! But I didn't quite understand your answer to my previous question. I see in your sig you have: Zero dac (LT1364) -> Zero internal amp (LT1361). I read once or twice that the 1364 would get too hot in the dac section, but that the SQ is really good. Does the 'getting warm' give any issues. I want good SQ, but I don't want to risk anything!


----------



## djembeplay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Glad it works, the zero rocks!! But I didn't quite understand your answer to my previous question. I see in your sig you have: Zero dac (LT1364) -> Zero internal amp (LT1361). I read once or twice that the 1364 would get too hot in the dac section, but that the SQ is really good. Does the 'getting warm' give any issues. I want good SQ, but I don't want to risk anything!_

 

Ya, I was thinking the same thing. It seems like less worry to just use the 627BPs even if you are also using the Zero as an amp...


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Glad it works, the zero rocks!! But I didn't quite understand your answer to my previous question. I see in your sig you have: Zero dac (LT1364) -> Zero internal amp (LT1361). I read once or twice that the 1364 would get too hot in the dac section, but that the SQ is really good. Does the 'getting warm' give any issues. I want good SQ, but I don't want to risk anything!_

 

It sure does sound good. I can't belive I been using the xfi as transport for three months. The difference is rather huge, I would say.

 I think there are several people who have used the LT1364 in the dac without problems. It is hot, so hot that I can't keep my finger on it. I have used it for a long time though without any problem at all. If anyone would say that it is dangerous for the Zero to use the LT1364, I would not want to use it. I don't think I got a definite answer to if the LT1028 is bad in the dac as well.


----------



## djembeplay

hmmm... interesting. Did anyone compare the head amp with the 1364 vs. headamp with 627?


----------



## djembeplay

er, let me clarify:

 compare using the built-in head amp in combination with the 1364 as a DAC vs. 627 as a DAC...


----------



## Penchum

Well, I see we are back to the "Jitter" worry syndrome. I'd like to share what I know and what I've determined so far on this issue. It may help some of you in the long run.

 It is my understanding that "Jitter" does exist, but it has never been heard. It exists in the inaudible range and can't be heard. The usual problems with treble that most believe is "Jitter", is usually solved by a change in drivers. You'll see time after time, folks fixing their problems with treble, by updating their sound card drivers or one of the add-ons. The whole "Jitter" issue seems to be another unknown ghost problem, looking for someone to worry about it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 On other sites, folks claim those inexpensive PC-Link devices work just fine, and there is little trouble with them.

 X-Fi cards seem to be great for one person, then really bad for another. This may be due to drivers as well.

 I use Vista Ultimate with my X-Fi extreme music, and it sounds great. No add-ins or hacks needed. I understand that you need the add-ins when you use it with XP.

 So, in conclusion, I would say this: I wouldn't give "Jitter" any further worry. If you are having treble problems, don't immediately assume it is somehow related to "Jitter". Look at the driver issues for your card, and update as needed. Between advertisements claiming low "Jitter" and expensive audio buyers saying they now (due to another expensive upgrade) have no "Jitter", this issue continues to fuel itself into existence. I don't have "Jitter", you don't have "Jitter", we don't have "Jitter". It is that easy. Believe it!


----------



## Henmyr

I no longer hear what I though was jitter from the Zero. It's very clean now. I'm not sure I've ever heard it now
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The best way to know if the pc link is good is to try it as Penchum said. I'll be waiting for impressions on it


----------



## djembeplay

Heh, ya I hear ya Penchum. I mean, it wasn't really that long ago in the grand scheme of things that there were witch hunts and resulting persecutions. Silly humans.


----------



## djembeplay

I just discovered my stock MOBO has an optical and digital coax output... This whole time I have been looking for USB DACs... So, it doesn't make a difference in SQ now if I have a USB DAC or not, right? Silly me.


----------



## djembeplay

Well, it's not a stock MOBO, it's better than you would find in most computers b/c this is my editing workstation... That's why it has this and 6 analogue channels on-board.


----------



## djembeplay

but... I'm just hoping I will be able to get the same sound quality out of these as I would get with a USB connection.... you think?

 ***sorry for 4 replies in a row 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




***


----------



## oatmeal769

I bought these:

2x Dual to Mono Opamp PCB > OPA627 

 from tube_buyer, along with two of his OPA627BP's. As posted before, I saw a difference, but not alot. I'm still wondering if they might have been counterfeit. 2 opamps, and the adaptor cost me only $28.
 The OpAmps looked exactly like this:

2PCS Burr Brown OPamp OPA627 NEW

 (even though these are AP, they still look exactly like the BP) They don't have the dimple, writing looks suspect, etc. Anyhow, my curiosity has bested me, so I bought these:

Matched Pair Burr Brown OPAmp OPA627BP 

 today, to see if I can hear a difference. Any thoughts on either of these sellers or choices?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djembeplay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_but... I'm just hoping I will be able to get the same sound quality out of these as I would get with a USB connection.... you think?

 ***sorry for 4 replies in a row 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





***_

 

Yes, I think so. Most here have great results, so I think you're good to go.


----------



## djembeplay

Cool, thanks.

 Do you think if I upgrade the chips the Zero will be able to drive K701s well?

 How about the stock Zero?


----------



## Kezzbot

As previously stated in this thread the Zero can drive 300 ohm cans eg. HD650’s so it will be able to drive the K701 with ease. (stock or not)

 My Zero is on the way from HK atm, Ill tell you how it sounds with the k701's when it arrives.


----------



## djembeplay

Awesome, thanks man.

 This is good. Spread the audiophile love (thats not an STD).

 I'm about to buy one myself. But first, what's the deal with the 2 different sellers? I caught some talk about it earlier, but I'm not sure if it was ever clarified...


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djembeplay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Awesome, thanks man.

 This is good. Spread the audiophile love (thats not an STD).

 I'm about to buy one myself. But first, what's the deal with the 2 different sellers? I caught some talk about it earlier, but I'm not sure if it was ever clarified..._

 

Around the first of the year, a couple of guys got jammed by the seller snow48_6. Most are buying from Lawrence, who has tried very hard to please his customers. His is biglawhk. His email address if you have questions, is lawrencechanbig@msn.com and he does sell some Opamps from time to time.


----------



## windrider

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On the ebay site it sais that it whould be well capable of driving 600ohm headphones._

 

Anyone had any first hand experiences with driving 600ohms phones from zero? I know i would probably be able to get decent volumes for sure, but i'm more interested in how much it can bring out of a 600ohms can as compared to a more expensive high end amp (like a tube amp).

 is no one using 600ohms dt880 with zero as dac/amp?


----------



## Kezzbot

err... Penchum's review was done using the HD650...

 I heard somone in this thread compare it to a darkvoice.


----------



## rpveld

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djembeplay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cool, thanks.

 Do you think if I upgrade the chips the Zero will be able to drive K701s well?

 How about the stock Zero?_

 

Djembeplay,

 I am listening to the 701's from the Zero Amp right now. 
 I have the OPA 627 BP's in the DAC and the 1364's in the Amp.
 You will be surprised how much power the Zero has, it can drive the 701's well.
 The Zero has a decent sound with the 701’s which is what you were looking for, right?

 However for really good results from the 701's I prefer the following combination,
 Zero DAC to LD MK III . I just switched to this combination and am listening to Al DI Meola. Now that brings a smile to my face.
 That sounds really great *IMO*. It makes the 701’s sound just the way *I* like it.

 So I would say, if you don’t have a dedicated HP amp yet, the Zero can be used for the 701’s and it would not disappoint you.
 But a dedicated (tube) Amp make them sound better.

 Btw, I didn’t try the stock Zero with the 701’s.


----------



## bada bing

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kezzbot* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_err... Penchum's review was done using the HD650...

 I heard somone in this thread compare it to a darkvoice._

 

The zero amp compared to a darkvoice ? Not even close. At least not a DV332 or 337.

 It is important to inject a little reality from time to time. The Zero is a nice piece for the money and has a big advantage over many other cheap amp/dac offerings in having plenty of power from 110volt transformer as opposed to batteries or USB power. It also has a lot of op-amp rolling capabilities. As such, it will drive 600ohm loads better than any other option in the price range. It betters sound cards and the emu0404 pretty handily which are what I consider it's competition.

 But the amp section ain't no Dark Voice and no amount of rollin will make it so.


----------



## oatmeal769

It's an outstanding output for it's price range, it'll whomp on any soundcard output, etc. I'd have to agree though, a standalone SS amp will best it easily. I'm very seriously considering a MK V at this point. SS really gets my rocks off in a different way than tubes do.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bada bing* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The zero amp compared to a darkvoice ? Not even close. At least not a DV332 or 337.

 It is important to inject a little reality from time to time. The Zero is a nice piece for the money and has a big advantage over many other cheap amp/dac offerings in having plenty of power from 110volt transformer as opposed to batteries or USB power. It also has a lot of op-amp rolling capabilities. As such, it will drive 600ohm loads better than any other option in the price range. It betters sound cards and the emu0404 pretty handily which are what I consider it's competition.

 But the amp section ain't no Dark Voice and no amount of rollin will make it so._

 

I agree. It's kinda like comparing apples and oranges anyway, or in this case, tube and solid state. It would be a mighty haul to get them equal. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Zero's headphone amp is a nice headphone amp. It will do the trick. Considering it will drive almost anything and you can further improve it's sound with your favorite Opamps, it is a solid performer and a pleasure at this extremely low price point. The Zero really shines, when you can use it as a stepping stone during your upgrade path. Use it for it's digital hookups and headphone amp today, then later, buy the separate amp of your dreams and drive it with the Zero's DAC output. Two uses for one low price! Ya gotta love that! One of my favorite things about the Zero is this: When I get tired of listening to my tube amps and need a break, I plug into the Zero's built-in headphone amp, and listen to solid state for a change. It is a nice option to have "at the ready", whenever I want it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you have a good clean source, using one of the lossless formats or a good CD player, with the Zero in your system, you can add an excellent tube amp like the LD MKIII, roll in some nice tubes, and be at that magical 90% point for very little money. This has always been the biggest attraction for the Zero.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's an outstanding output for it's price range, it'll whomp on any soundcard output, etc. I'd have to agree though, a standalone SS amp will best it easily. I'm very seriously considering a MK V at this point. SS really gets my rocks off in a different way than tubes do._

 

Hey Oat!
 That would be a great combination! The MKV is the way to go, IMHO, if you want the serious SS. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just can't leave mine alone! Driving it with the Zero is very nice too.


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Oat!
 That would be a great combination! The MKV is the way to go, IMHO, if you want the serious SS. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just can't leave mine alone! Driving it with the Zero is very nice too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeah, I'm really thinkin' that's gonna be in my near future. I enjoy A/B'ing between MKIII and the SS output. There's just a certain level of tightness and dynamics tubes can't do. I'll probably buy another Zero as well, wouldn't want to be switching cables each time, LOL...


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, I'm really thinkin' that's gonna be in my near future. I enjoy A/B'ing between MKIII and the SS output. There's just a certain level of tightness and dynamics tubes can't do. I'll probably buy another Zero as well, wouldn't want to be switching cables each time, LOL..._

 

Hummm. Maybe it's time to get a pre-amp? If you hooked your Zero in through AUX1, then hooked your MKIII to REC OUT on one tape loop and your MKV to REC OUT on the other tape loop, you could listen to any source hooked up to the pre-amp, with either headphone amp you want!

 Later, get a T-amp and a couple of nice bookshelf speakers, and have a mini-system that plays anything hooked to the pre-amp. It's a thought for sure.


----------



## oatmeal769

Definitely a good thought. I have a Sony stereo receiver I coud use for this purpose now. I'm just wondering if there will be garbage introduced in the signal path.


----------



## pearljam5000

anyone tried the zero with k-701 vs the 0404 usb with k701?,dac+amp performance,can't decide what to get


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Definitely a good thought. I have a Sony stereo receiver I coud use for this purpose now. I'm just wondering if there will be garbage introduced in the signal path._

 

That's a good point. Older ones are direct wired, so nothing but wire and switches in the path. You could test it out pretty easily though.


----------



## windrider

Thanks for all the input! Judging from the responses i guess the 250ohms dt880 would be a much better match for zero than the 600ohms...

 I think i'll just drag my zero all the way to the store to test it again myself to confirm it after burning in the zero amp properly. And check out hd650/hd600 + zero while i'm there.

 I wish burn in could be done faster =(

 btw if i change opamps do i have to "burn them in" again seperately? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 sorry for all the noob questions! And much thanks to everyone for this thread.


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *windrider* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_btw if i change opamps do i have to "burn them in" again seperately?_

 

Nope, it's done mostly for the capacitors.


----------



## djembeplay

Ok, I'm an inch away from buying one...

 I am a bit confused as to what you guys are saying about the head amp quality... Are you saying that a tube amp in general will be better than a solid state amp as a personal preference, or are you saying specifically that the SS amp in the Zero is mediocre compared to a dedicated SS amp?

 Also, maybe a silly question, but just to make sure... will this better the headphone output from my 12 year old Pioneer receiver? If not, I might as well just buy a stand-alone DAC...


----------



## djembeplay

Oh ya, I dont know if this has been answered yet, but how does this compare to the Octavart One? Heh, Zero vs One.


----------



## coredump

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djembeplay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, I'm an inch away from buying one...

 I am a bit confused as to what you guys are saying about the head amp quality... Are you saying that a tube amp in general will be better than a solid state amp as a personal preference, or are you saying specifically that the SS amp in the Zero is mediocre compared to a dedicated SS amp?
_

 

In my opinion the Zero amp is pretty darn good for the money. Based on reviews here I expected less but with my HD650s I'd say it's 90-95% of the performance of the LDIII. That's with everything stock, no tube or opamp upgrades.


----------



## [S]uds

Well, it's been over 2 weeks since I ordered my Zero from Chan Lawrence and apparently it still HASN'T shipped. Maybe I shouldn't have bought it from him directly and instead used Ebay to buy it...

 On a side note, I've had my OpAmp Upgrades for over a week now too. Kinda useless right now, though.


----------



## djembeplay

Wow, nice... sounds like I'll be quite good with just using the Zero as a DAC and Amp.

 Now, I'm just wondering how it compares to the Octavart DAC/Amp which can be had for a similar price...


----------



## oldson

had my zero for a week now, got about 65hrs on it.
 before i had this unit i could not tell any difference when listening to cd or mp3(320) from my pc ! man i can now!
 great bit of kit for the money.
 if anyone needs the "final push" JUST DO IT, GET ONE . if you dont like it sell it. you wont lose a lot.
 i now want these 627bp chips and an adapter. i want the adapter with "plug in" sockets already soldered in place. where is currently considered the best place to buy?? (must be genuine chips, price not important)
 cheers


----------



## coredump

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *uds* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, it's been over 2 weeks since I ordered my Zero from Chan Lawrence and apparently it still HASN'T shipped. Maybe I shouldn't have bought it from him directly and instead used Ebay to buy it...

 On a side note, I've had my OpAmp Upgrades for over a week now too. Kinda useless right now, though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_




Don't worry. I'm pretty sure I still hold the record at 31 days.


----------



## djembeplay

thats disconcerting...

 Any octavart vs. zero inputs?


----------



## coredump

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djembeplay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thats disconcerting...

 Any octavart vs. zero inputs?_

 

Well I suppose the Chinese New Year/ Freak Chinese Blizzard was partially to blame. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I doubt anyone on here has heard both the Zero and Octavart.


----------



## djembeplay

Oh really? I guess I was out of the loop on that news, heh...

 Why don't you think anyone has heard both units?


----------



## coredump

I think most the people around here have fancy CD players and what not so they don't use external DACs. Those who buy them probably never buy more than one.


----------



## djembeplay

Oh ya I see what you're saying.

 Well, I'm psyched...

 One final question before I go place my order here... can anyone think of a seperate DAC and amp combo that would be equivalent or better quality than the Zero at about the same price?


----------



## Hardflip

I took the plunge last night to match it against my Asus Xonar. It will be used as a dac into my MKIII and MKV. 

 Does the Zero upsample the signal or does it just receive a 24-bit/192khz signal?


----------



## djembeplay

Alright, I made my big audio splurge a couple hours ago.

 I ordered a new pair of K701s and the Zero.

 I think I'm in for a treat... I'm coming from a pair of Bose Triports running out of my Pioneer receiver's phone-out which is fed by my on-board computer sound.

 Oh, and my Triports consist of about 50% tape at this point b/c the plastic broke in a few spots...


----------



## djembeplay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hardflip* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I took the plunge last night to match it against my Asus Xonar. It will be used as a dac into my MKIII and MKV. 

 Does the Zero upsample the signal or does it just receive a 24-bit/192khz signal?_

 

A toast to our new equipment!


----------



## coredump

I kind of thought the K701 or AD2000 might be my next headphone although I've never had the chance to hear either of them. I'm sure your going to be blown away.


----------



## djembeplay

Sweet.

 It's funny... the K701s I just bought were actually only $100 more than my Triports... but it sounds like the 701s and other comparable headphones are on a completely different planet than the Triports.

 It's amazing how much 'more' you can get for your buck if you just take the time to research and compare your options.... both the Zero and K701s seem to exemplify this quite well.


----------



## vvanrij

djembeplay good choice man, you will love it! Don't worry at all about the zero's amp its really good, and new opamps are pretty cheap.


----------



## yilmaz196

I got mine yesterday, i have xfi notebook, and used its optical out to the zero, i chosed digital out in xfi setup, sound is really good but there is one thing. I can use the volume control of the foobar player or other mediaplayers, is this normal? I believe that if signal goes to zero via optical, it wouldnt effect using volume of the players, right? I want to pass the signal without decoding in xfi dac. I want it to be done by zero dac.


----------



## djembeplay

Thanks man!

 Now I've just been reading through the past posts to try to get a grasp on the different opamps people are commonly using.

 I'm leaning towards using OPA627s for the DAC and LM4562s for the amp. I am deciding to stay away from the 13 series b/c of the heat issue people keep talking about. But.. the combo I listed should be a good pairing... right?


----------



## djembeplay

Although.. idk if the 1361 gets hot... hmm, lots of options. I may want to try an lt1469 for the DAC as well... but, all in good time.

 Whats the deal with the free samples from LT? Are they the same thing as if you just bought them, or are they like on a timer set to explode after 30 days of use?


----------



## Kezzbot

yilmaz196,

 If you are using an optical cable to the Zero then you are using the Zero's dac.

 Not sure why you can still change the volume within windows or if there is anything wrong with that.


----------



## vvanrij

Djembeplay you can use the edit button if you want to add something later 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. And OPA627s are best for DAC and LT1364's for amp. But this is offcourse taste dependent. @ yilmaz196 you can change the volume from spdif output, thats normal.


----------



## djembeplay

Lol, e-di-t you say? Eed-it. You learn something new every day!

 So I am pretty set on going with the OPA627s for the DAC. The LT1364's scare me, lol... people were having oscillation problems with it in their DAC and say it runs really hot... idk.

 The 1361 or 1469 wouldn't quite match the 1364? The latter two run much cooler, right?

 Oh ya, I'm still skeptical about these 'free samples' as well...


----------



## Gaco

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yilmaz196* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got mine yesterday, i have xfi notebook, and used its optical out to the zero, i chosed digital out in xfi setup, sound is really good but there is one thing. I can use the volume control of the foobar player or other mediaplayers, is this normal? I believe that if signal goes to zero via optical, it wouldnt effect using volume of the players, right? I want to pass the signal without decoding in xfi dac. I want it to be done by zero dac._

 

I just got mine up running a few days myself. I'm sitting thinking the exact same thing, haven't found an answer yet..


----------



## vvanrij

1364 in amp doesn't run hot at all, only in the DAC section. Use 627's in the dac and 1364's in the amp.


----------



## djembeplay

Oh really? Oh, thats good news....

 To be able to compare, you probobly tried the others I listed in the amp section as well, right?...

 Also, I was wondering how the quality is of the optical cable that comes with the Zero is... I'm reading these threads that are comparing optical to coax, and the opinions are wild and unweildly, lol. One person sounds very technical and well read with one opinion, the next sounds equally as well read with the opposite opinion... It doesn't make sense to me that it would make any difference when dealing with a digital signal b/c it's a matter of 1's and 0's.. on or off, no in betweens. Either it gets there or it doesnt... and if it doesn't it probobly would be pretty obvious distortion from data drop-out. IDK though... anywho, lol, hows that cable? 

 And what is an "AT&T" cable... sounds like a phone line, lol.


----------



## vvanrij

Yeah but in digital connections mistakes can be made which the dac will 'solve' but offcourse never in the way it was meant to sound. I personally haven't heard a difference in a good coax vs good optical cable. I do know that coax is cheaper, stronger en better bendable. I prefer coax for that matter, but I also use the included optical cable and it sounds fine imo. Does anyone know if the thickness of an optical actually matters? I bought a optical cable, and got one with my creative live (external usb dock for laptop), The one included with the creative is about 1/4 of the thickness of the other one. Will this matter SQ-wise, or is it just a stronger cable?


----------



## djembeplay

Hmm... interesting. Do you hear a difference between the thicker and thinner optical cables?

 Also, how is the quality of the one that comes with the Zero.. or am I mistaken that the Zero comes with one? It says an "AT&T" cable is included, which I assumed was a digital optical cable...


----------



## vvanrij

the optical cable included is fine imo, I personally don't hear any difference with the cables, but I haven't done any critical listening tests with it either.


----------



## djembeplay

Cool, good to know. So is "AT&T" just a type of optical cable?


----------



## vvanrij

tbh I have NO IDEA haha, I don't think mine said AT&T


----------



## djembeplay

Lol, interesting. I did a search and Wikipedia'd it... I didn't find anything. The only thing I saw was one comment here that related it to a glass optical cable... idk.

 The only reason I am even curious is b/c that's what the cable is labeled as on the Ebay ad for the Zero... Oh well, as long as it works 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.

 So do you know anything about these free samples at Linear Technology? I am of course skeptical about a "ya, just pay me if you want to" scenario...


----------



## djembeplay

Well, g'nite... thanks a ton for the info. I'll check back to see if anyone knows if the free samples at Linear Technology explode after 30 days or not...


----------



## Hardflip

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gaco* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got mine up running a few days myself. I'm sitting thinking the exact same thing, haven't found an answer yet.._

 

If you look at the db set in the bottom right of foobar, it is at 0db when at full. Lower it and it drops db into the negative. So it could be the opposite of gain before the signal is sent out. Just a theory.


----------



## vvanrij

btw just read on the forum that the zero is even able to easily drive the K340, so the K701's and HD650's shouldn't be a problem at all.


----------



## prospero21

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_btw just read on the forum that the zero is even able to easily drive the K340, so the K701's and HD650's shouldn't be a problem at all._

 

It is ? Thats really good news, since I would like to drive my k340 with the zero. Ive been looking at the LD mkII on ebay, would that be able to drive the k340's aswell ?

 Btw, I received word from Lawrence today that my Zero has been shipped and should be arriving within 7-10 days, yay !


----------



## REB

I have used the Zero to drive my K340's before I got my Graham Slee Solo and it did a very decent job. I hadn't expected much, since the K340's are notoriously hard to drive, but it was OK. I also tried a pair of Sennheiser HD580's (same drivers as HD600, I believe 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) and they sounded good out of the Zero. Not fabulous, but certainly good.


----------



## kwekeugene

I'm sure the LT1364 runs VERY hot in the amp section. It's so hot you can't put your fingers on the opamp for more than a few seconds. The LT1361 also runs pretty warm. The LT1027 on the other hand, it cool, only slight heat is emitted.


----------



## vvanrij

hmm, I'v never heard that the 1364 runs hot in the amp section, I'v been using it now for quite a while, never had any problems. Only reporst thusfar (aside from yours) where that the 1364 runs hot in the dac section in combination with 1361's in the amp section.


----------



## coredump

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I do know that coax is cheaper, stronger en better bendable. I prefer coax for that matter, but I also use the included optical cable and it sounds fine imo._

 

A shielded coax cable can get expensive. Maybe $15 to $30. Optical is usually under $10. The Guitar Center in town had a whole box of 6 footers for $4 each.


----------



## edguetzow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djembeplay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, g'nite... thanks a ton for the info. I'll check back to see if anyone knows if the free samples at Linear Technology explode after 30 days or not... _

 

The free samples are exactly what they sell - just free to try out! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I have had mine for a few months already with no problems. Get them and experiment!


----------



## windrider

i would like to testify that the burn in on these are for real.

 Using my sr-60s directly from laptop headphone out from zero dac+amp did not yield too much differences or improvements at first.

 But after around 30-40 hours of burn in, the trebles are now much smoother with zero dac/amp and the sound is much warmer/less harsh.

 This looks like its turning out to be a really great piece of equipment.

 And my main cans, the dt880s have finally arrived today.


----------



## windrider

initial impressions with dt880 05 edition +zero dac/amp:

 I originally auditioned the dt880s at jaben with the crossroads edge amp and they sounded slightly harsh especially in the treble. Was very worried that long listening sessions would not be possible with the dt880s but trying them out on the 30-40hours zero IT SOUNDS MUCH SMOOTHER, WARMER and LESS HARSH. I couldnt believe how much less harsher it was. But it is. Even at higher volumes than with the crossroads edge amp.

 And my initial impression is that dt880 sounds pretty good with the zero too (stock amp).


----------



## nakedtoes

This zero DAC + amp pair very well with higher ohms headphone... 

 Just change to LT1364 + LT1496.. pairs very well with DT770.. with RS-1 is abit bright..


----------



## rpveld

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hmm, I'v never heard that the 1364 runs hot in the amp section, I'v been using it now for quite a while, never had any problems. Only reporst thusfar (aside from yours) where that the 1364 runs hot in the dac section in combination with 1361's in the amp section._

 

Ok, so I had to know, I just opened the Zero and put my finger on the LT1364.
 It's *HOT*. 
 Leave your finger on it for more than 3 or 4 seconds and you will have a blistered finger.
 BTW I have the 627 in the dac and 1364 in the amp.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rpveld* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, so I had to know, I just opened the Zero and put my finger on the LT1364.
 It's *HOT*. 
 Leave your finger on it for more than 3 or 4 seconds and you will have a blistered finger.
 BTW I have the 627 in the dac and 1364 in the amp._

 

Yep. They do run hot for sure. I've got to get some of those stick-on coolers. I'm sure they'd help the heat situation greatly.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *prospero21* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is ? Thats really good news, since I would like to drive my k340 with the zero. Ive been looking at the LD mkII on ebay, would that be able to drive the k340's aswell ?

 Btw, I received word from Lawrence today that my Zero has been shipped and should be arriving within 7-10 days, yay ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The MKII would be a great match up with the Zero, and it will drive almost anything. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Most will pay the extra $50 for the MKIII and thats just fine. I have both, and like them both. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend either one.


----------



## vvanrij

Ok just got the 627's placed em in the DAC. All I can say is... soundstage! Much much better, great improvement. I love it, sounds much better overall, highly recommended!

 Is the 1364's in the amp section going to be a problem? Should I replace them with the 1361's?? An ideas please, it got me abit worried!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok just got the 627's placed em in the DAC. All I can say is... soundstage! Much much better, great improvement. I love it, sounds much better overall, highly recommended!

 Is the 1364's in the amp section going to be a problem? Should I replace them with the 1361's?? An ideas please, it got me abit worried!_

 

I've been running them (LT1364s) in the headphone amp section for a while now, and no problems so far. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I still want those stick-ons eventually though.


----------



## djembeplay

Lol, vvanrij, you had me convinced last night that that the 1364s wouldn't get hot in the amp... now your worried about it like I was, and am again...

 So my question is... With OPA627s in the DAC, is there a chip that sounds just as good in the amp section as the LT1364 but runs cooler?

 I'll be driving K701s, if that makes a difference...


----------



## djembeplay

What? I just went to the website for the LM4562 and it says they are $150 each...

 For the first two types at least... what type would we need?


----------



## wquiles

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep. They do run hot for sure. I've got to get some of those stick-on coolers. I'm sure they'd help the heat situation greatly. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Has anyone figured out yet "why" these run hot? It is a simple Voltage vs. Current multiplication. Something (most likely the current) has to be much higher in these "hot" chips if other chips barely get warm 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Will


----------



## djembeplay

?? anyone ??


----------



## Hardflip

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wquiles* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone figured out yet "why" these run hot? It is a simple Voltage vs. Current multiplication. Something (most likely the current) has to be much higher in these "hot" chips if other chips barely get warm 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Will_

 

That's what I am worried about. Don't want to damage the zero like the 6h30's did to my MKIII.

 djrembeplay - order samples, they should be free + shipping or use a student email address to get them totally free. If they aren't available, try the 49720, they are the same, but replaced version. You want the mdip kind, they have the samples link

 I am in the process of setting up some opamps, ordered samples from linear tech and already have a host of national semi's. 2 questions:

 Has anyone ever tried no opamp? I did this on my x-meridian and it had better detail.

 Is there anywhere to get opa627's that aren't fake? It seems awfully sketchy with so many fakes around.


----------



## djembeplay

You mean the 49720 replaced the 4562 or the other way around?

 Also, does anyone know how these compare to the LT1364 in the amp section?


----------



## Hardflip

lme49720 is the newer version


----------



## djembeplay

Ok, thanks... any idea how this compares to the LT1364? Does it get hot as well?

 I'm thinking at this point I'll try the 49720 in the amp with the 627s in the DAC.

 Now I am also wondering the same thing you are... where is the best place to buy 627s that aren't fake?


----------



## djembeplay

Hmmm... Ok, I'm pretty confused. National has a 'headphone amp' section, which none of the ones we are talking about are on there. The ones we are looking at are in the 'performance audio' section... That's confusing.

 Then, from what I can tell, there are three chips in that section that are MDIP and dual chips... the two we have been talking about (LME49720 and LM4562) then there is also a third, the LME49860. How could we decide between these??


----------



## djembeplay

Well... I just ordered 3 samples of 49720s... Now I just need to find a browndog and some 627s...

 Quick question... I chose 'None' for my preferred distributer when I ordered (since I had no idea what any of the options were). My order is being shipped from Singapore... is that normal or should I have chosen a preferred distributer?


----------



## vvanrij

Again djembeplay, the edit button, you keep replying to your own posts. Anyway what is the worst that could happen with the hot 1364? Will it burn up the 1364? Or worse, like the surrounding components?


----------



## djembeplay

Ya, thats what I'm worried about... it causing a short in the surrounding components.

 Also, from my understanding of computer processors, the performance of chips degrade as their temperature increases... But I think that may be a bit over the top when referencing these OPamps...

 There was a posting earlier that I just caught that made me especially worried... I may be skewing the wording a bit, but someone mentioned things will run hotter w/ the K701s because they are current hungry as opposed to voltage hungry. Again, I may be off in the terms I used there, but I don't want to go back and find the post again .

 I'm hoping the 49720s I just ordered will stay cool and go well with the K701s. Now I'm just perplexed about what to throw into the DAC... I looked for SO long tonight for some 627BPs from a genuine source... they all say they are on backorder for like 24 weeks unfortunately...


----------



## vvanrij

I got it from DIY kits, just email : eddiewuhk@netvigator.com

 And ask for 2 627's on a browndog adapter.


----------



## djembeplay

Hmm... people keep saying they are counterfeit from there though... how do they look (and sound)?


----------



## vvanrij

hmm they are definetly not counterfeit, they sound awesome, price seems right, and I checked them carefully and they seem as real as I can judge.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hmm they are definetly not counterfeit, they sound awesome, price seems right, and I checked them carefully and they seem as real as I can judge._

 

The pair of OPA627BP's I got from tube_buyer on eBay were good just like yours. I think he still sells the adapters with them too.


----------



## AudioNoob

Is the torroidal in the zero a single input or a dual? as in would I need to change torroidals to change the input voltage


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioNoob* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the torroidal in the zero a single input or a dual? as in would I need to change torroidals to change the input voltage_

 

Mine has a 230/110V switch, but there are ZEROs with 110V only (early model?).


----------



## vvanrij

yup mine also has that switch (pink) for 110/230V


----------



## katanka

I have a zero on the way, and would like to get a Usb / spdif convert. 
 I was looking at both these

DIGITAL PCLINK USB-SPDIF FOR AUDIO , UDA1321 / CS8405A - eBay (item 330233724520 end time May-11-08 06:48:52 PDT)
 and
eBay.com.sg: NEW USB to SPDIF & OPTICAL Adapter UDA1321/CS8405A (item 260228100803 end time Apr 17, 2008 23:12:54 SGT)

 Both seem to be the same. Well chipset wise. Can anyone recommend either of them, or even something better.

 plus aslo wanting to get the op627 opamp, which place is better

eBay South Africa : Matched Pair Burr Brown OPAmp OPA627BP OPA627 OPA637 (item 140229386618 end time May-31-08 15:16:39 )
 or
eBay South Africa : Burr Brown OPamp Op amp OPA627BP OPA627AP OPA627 2pcs (item 360049025120 end time May-13-08 16:27:48 )

 or does someone know where to get cheaper


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine has a 230/110V switch, but there are ZEROs with 110V only (early model?)._

 

The very first model, had specific voltages. My first one is 110V only. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 All newer versions have world voltage adjustable, like my second one does.


----------



## oldson

just ordered my 627's+bd adapter.
 where can i get the "lt1364" chip/s for the amp and do i need 1 or2?
 thanx

 btw i see little dot have the mkiv and se models available again. wish they had waited till my next payday!
 still if the 627's are that good maybe i wont need an amp!?!?


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The pair of OPA627BP's I got from tube_buyer on eBay were good just like yours. I think he still sells the adapters with them too._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got it from DIY kits, just email : eddiewuhk@netvigator.com_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hmm they are definetly not counterfeit, they sound awesome, price seems right, and I checked them carefully and they seem as real as I can judge._

 

Would you guys mind posting some pictures of your 627's? I got mine from tube_buyer, and they don't look right, or match up code-wise AFAICT. 

 I just ordered two more here - 
Matched Pair Burr Brown OPAmp OPA627BP
 at least the pic and code seem to match...We really need to get to the bottom of this counterfeit mystery.


----------



## coredump

Uh oh. I bought some from tube_buyer today.


----------



## Hardflip

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coredump* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Uh oh. I bought some from tube_buyer today._

 


 I just ordered them from tube_buyer also. I think right now with the information at hand, it is impossible to tell which ones are fake. All we have to go on is this thread in which the original poster sent them into TI and they were verified as fake. The housing seems an obvious clue because it only has a dot. According to TI, all BB logos have a center notch at one end. That seems to be the only solid evidence available.

 I went with tube-buyer because Penchum and a few others got them and they sounded good. If they sound right and not hurt the Zero, I don't care if they are fakes. Maybe a company figured out how to make them and if counterfeiting them. Fine with me as TI does not seem to be interested in making them anymore.


----------



## coredump

Of the four people selling them on ebay, 2 show pictures with notches on the end and 2 show pictures with a circular dimple. The circular dimple is the one in Penchum's pics but tube_buyer's picture has the notch on the end.


----------



## tinseljim

It would be interesting to get to the bottom of this. Maybe someone at CanJam has done this???

 I got my 627s installed when I ordered it so will show pics from Lawrence of 627s. He gauranteed they are genuine and he has more! 

 It arrives tomorrow so looking forward that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 James


----------



## Kezzbot

I ordered 3 627AU’s from Lawrence when I ordered my Zero they are duel op-amps and apparently sound identical to 627bp’s.

 Lawrence also guaranteed me they where not fakes.

 I’ll post some pics when I get them.


----------



## tinseljim

Lawrence: 2
 tube_buyer: ?

 (modify as you see fit!)


----------



## Krendopolis

Hi guys I checked in on this thread a long time ago. My ordeal with the zero appears to be over finally. What had happened is that my unit ceased to have any output at all after a week or so of use. I removed the dac boards from my unit and sent them to Lawrence which cost me $13 on top of the $190 I originally spent for the zero. After a long time he got some replacement boards in stock and apparently shipped them to me. They never arrived. Ta da that is the end. Lawrence didn't respond to my last email and so I have a parts unit for anyone who is interested. Buying any of these electronic gizmos directly from China (and I have bought several) is a gamble and don't let anyone tell you different. Sometimes you flat out lose. Thanks


----------



## Kezzbot

Ouch. Sorry for your bad luck.

 Now i feel nurvous about my order.


----------



## tinseljim

That's too bad. I would recommend getting in touch again as he has always responded to my emails (remember the time difference!). 

 Lawrence is a dependable chap and can be trusted for sure! Although I'll be able to confirm this tomorrow for sure when I pick it up from UK customs!

 James


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coredump* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Of the four people selling them on ebay, 2 show pictures with notches on the end and 2 show pictures with a circular dimple. The circular dimple is the one in Penchum's pics but tube_buyer's picture has the notch on the end._

 

Mine are exactly like the 1st pic. Notch but no dimple, two color printing. From the Texas Instrument's spec. sheet, there should be both a notch, and a dimple / hole to indicate pin one, AFAICT. Also, the white numbers on mine do not seem to match up to the mfr's coding.


----------



## windrider

I find the hd650's bass too boomy/has too much bloat/punch/volume with stock opamps in zero.

 Ordered samples of
 lt1057x2
 lt1361x2
 lt1364x2
 lt1469x2

 Any particular arrangement possible with these that would help with reducing the boomy bass?


----------



## souperman

Like I said before,

*tube_buyer is a reliable seller. I have bought from him some things and they are very honest at dealing. Some adapters came with bent legs and they refunded all my money.*

 Geez, how many times do I have to say it?


----------



## Frwkie

I also bought them from tube_buyer; they look real, have a totally white print, BB logo aligned to the left, (R)USA at the right on the same row, and OPA627BP on the second line. The number (third row) is 0233 2111. It has only a center notch (none in the lower left). On the bottom (c.q. "belly") is a circle with D15 in the middle. Any guess on authenticity?
 I have other (better) speakers at the moment, and the soundimage appears quite realistic, at least. 

 EDIT: Sorry souperman, I was in the process of writing this reply while you posted yours


----------



## coredump

It may not be a question of honesty but it seems like we have two different chips. 

 Perhaps the chips have changed how they look on the outside.


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coredump* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It may not be a question of honesty but it seems like we have two different chips. 

 Perhaps the chips have changed how they look on the outside._

 

Agreed. No one is saying Tube_buyer is doing anything intentionally, just that he may have a batch or two which are suspect.
 The two I have seem to not match up with what has been written about 'genuine' 627B's

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...ml#post4173197


----------



## Penchum

The last time this chip authentication thing went round and round, not much was figured out. In the end, it will come down to: Do yours sound good?
 Until then, I wouldn't worry too much. Tube_buyer has always been good to me, so I'm fairly sure he'll be good to others as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 As for the possibility that Lawrence might mess someone over on their order, I have not heard of this happening at all. Any problems that have happened were eventually solved with Lawrence taking it in the shorts, to make sure everyone was happy. In this day and age, with a seller from China, this is very, very good business practice and Lawrence deserves a kind word or two, IMHO.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kezzbot* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ouch. Sorry for your bad luck.

 Now i feel nurvous about my order. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 






 Don't be worried. I'm sure your order will work out just like everyone else's has. Krendopolis is still upset that he killed his Zero a very long time ago, and his situation doesn't represent the majority of experiences here, that I have seen.

 It's like homework excuses. My dog ate it. The car ran over it. The post lost it. It magically caught fire. My sister flushed it down the toilet. In the end, it is just another excuse for "sheit happens".


----------



## timb

Hey guys, quick question.

 I got my Zero in last week from Lawrence and I have what seems to be an odd problem...

 If I plug my cans directly into the unit, volume in the left channel is lower than the right channel. I noticed this by slowly turning the volume up and getting sound in my right ear before my left.

 If I put the unit into preamp mode and plug my headphones into another amp the sound balance is fine.


----------



## Hardflip

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coredump* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It may not be a question of honesty but it seems like we have two different chips. 

 Perhaps the chips have changed how they look on the outside._

 

Exactly. If you look at this page it will show the layout of production chips. There are multiple different designs, one reason why this is difficult to discern any fakes. Add to that TI bought BurrBrown in 1996, while the chips havebeen in production since 1991.

 Penchum is absolutely right, go by how it sounds. Also, be careful throwing around "this seller has fakes, I know because 'add theory here'". Amateur sleuthing should not be used to damage reputations.

 Why am I writing this? Because my amps are in for repair, the zero is on order and my K701's are at APS for recabling. Add to that I have finals all this week and next. And finally I received my Brilliant Green cd's and I can't listen to them


----------



## coredump

Well I just got two paper cuts so I win.


----------



## vvanrij

timb I also have the lower left volume when slowly turning up the pre-amp volume (with headphone plugged in), but only at really really low volumes, as soon as I get to a low-but-listenable volume, the left and right channel are equal in volume.


----------



## souperman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *timb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys, quick question.

 I got my Zero in last week from Lawrence and I have what seems to be an odd problem...

 If I plug my cans directly into the unit, volume in the left channel is lower than the right channel. I noticed this by slowly turning the volume up and getting sound in my right ear before my left.

 If I put the unit into preamp mode and plug my headphones into another amp the sound balance is fine.

 If I keep the unit in headphone mode and plug my headphones into another amp (thus being able to control the volume via the Zero) the sound is balanced fine.

 In the last scenario, the sound is still being running through the headphone amp circuit, right? If that's the case what could the problem be?_

 

This happens to all Zero's. It's a matter of the potentiometer inside.


----------



## timb

Alright, then my next question is: Has anyone replaced their potentiometer with one that doesn't suck?


----------



## vvanrij

Lol, it doesn't suck at all, I use it with my Grado's (32ohm) all the time, and the only time you can hear a difference between the left and right channel is with very very low volume. Does it really bother you?


----------



## djembeplay

I recently bought a pair of OPA627BPs. The last piece I need to complete my recent audio splurge is an adapter for the 627s.

 Until a day or two ago I was under the impression that all I would need is a 'browndog'. Now I understand that this is just the bottom part and that two sockets need to be welded on top of this. So I'm thinking.. hmmm... I have no welding experience or equipment, and I must not be alone there...

 Where are you guys buying your adapters? What is a complete adapter with the sockets already installed called? How much do they sell for? Are there any that are considered of higher quality than others?

 K, as always, I appreciate the help.


----------



## timb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lol, it doesn't suck at all, I use it with my Grado's (32ohm) all the time, and the only time you can hear a difference between the left and right channel is with very very low volume. Does it really bother you?_

 

Yea, it does bother me. Comfortable listening volume with my HD590s isn't really that high up (the line on the volume knob would be about level pointing to the left). I just measured it, and at that volume the left channel is still a tad lower than the right.

 Now if I, say, go into iTunes and set the preamp to -12 dB, then crank the Zero up, it becomes even. I personally don't think this is the correct solution.

 I'm a bit OCD about things being even, and I just know this is going to bug the hell out of me until I can fix it...


----------



## vvanrij

I ordered 2 627's and 1 browndog adapter from the diykit store, and it was already welded and everything, good to go! I just had to plug it in.


----------



## vvanrij

Ow all the way to the left horizontal? Mine is already even by that volume. Its just the very very beginning I can hear it, I also listen at about left horizontal (maybe slightly less).


----------



## timb

Yea, all the way to the left horizontal is actually my loud listening volume, slightly lower is comfortable. At that volume it's not really noticeable with most music; however, when I put on things like _Stairway to Heaven_, where I know the guitar in the left channel should be louder than the instrument in the right channel, I can notice that it's still a tiny bit lower.


----------



## djembeplay

DIYKits for adapters? Nice, thanks... They are good quality?


----------



## vvanrij

Like I said before, they look great and sound awesome.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *timb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Alright, then my next question is: Has anyone replaced their potentiometer with one that doesn't suck?_

 

It is possible that the potentiometer could use a little cleaning, to lessen the problem. My first Zero did this, and I cleaned it with Deoxit 5 and now there is very little difference, at the lowest volume you can hear. I topped it off with a shot of Deoxit Gold, and all has been good since then (6 months).

 It's worth a try, if you can find some tuner cleaner or Deoxit cheaply and with little hassle. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Even new parts can have manufacturing lube and dust in places they were not supposed to be in.


----------



## ciphercomplete

I am curious as to which OPAMPS are the most neutral and have the least amount of color across the spectrum. If I get the Zero I don't think I will use it's headphone amp at all so I don't mind if the opamp sounds harsh. Its going to output into a nice tube amp anyway.


----------



## timb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is possible that the potentiometer could use a little cleaning, to lessen the problem. My first Zero did this, and I cleaned it with Deoxit 5 and now there is very little difference, at the lowest volume you can hear. I topped it off with a shot of Deoxit Gold, and all has been good since then (6 months).

 It's worth a try, if you can find some tuner cleaner or Deoxit cheaply and with little hassle. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Even new parts can have manufacturing lube and dust in places they were not supposed to be in. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Already throughly cleaned it with QD contact cleaner then blew it out with a compressor.

 If it's just a matter of the potentiometer being low quality, I can replace that myself no problem.

 If it's a matter of that combined with a fundamental circuit problem, well, that will be disappointing.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *timb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Already throughly cleaned it with QD contact cleaner then blew it out with a compressor.

 If it's just a matter of the potentiometer being low quality, I can replace that myself no problem.

 If it's a matter of that combined with a fundamental circuit problem, well, that will be disappointing._

 

It's just a standard quality pot. I think Lawrence was selling alps replacements too, but I'm not totally sure on that. If you can get one, that would be a great mod you could share with everyone here! I know I would be interested. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks!


----------



## Citizen86

So I read probably the first 20 pages but don't think I have what it takes to read the other 180 pages 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sorry if it's been asked numerous times, but is there any amps out right now comparable to this one in the $180 or less price range? This looks like a really nice one for the money, and a great entry DAC/Amp for people like me just getting into audiophilia


----------



## CountChoculaBot

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Citizen86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I read probably the first 20 pages but don't think I have what it takes to read the other 180 pages 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sorry if it's been asked numerous times, but is there any amps out right now comparable to this one in the $180 or less price range? This looks like a really nice one for the money, and a great entry DAC/Amp for people like me just getting into audiophilia 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Cheapest price is $150 shipped, go with that. At that price, I don't think there's even another combination that can match that. IMO the best competitor *was* a Octavart Amp ($100 + shipping) and DAC707 ($70 + Shipping), but after shipping those prices just get higher, not to mention Octavart amps aren't at that price anymore. A PIMETA and DAC707 would be slightly cheaper, but still more expensive than the Zero. Not sure if that combo would beat the Zero. Probably, but then again not by much and it's more expensive, plus it won't allow you the liberty of easily switching to speakers like the Zero does.

 If we're talking amp only, though, then the picture changes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The X-Head looks really promising...


----------



## Citizen86

I would use it as a DAC and amp, since I would want to bypass my X-Fi's crappy DAC (It's the Xtremegamer). I figured there wasn't too much competition at this price range....

 BTW you must be the same CountChoculaBot I've been seeing in the Audio section at Hardforums


----------



## Steph86

Hi, can anyone let me know how the zero dac compares to the citypulse da2.03e,(sonically) and whether the citypulse is really worth $200 more?


----------



## Kezzbot

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's just a standard quality pot. I think Lawrence was selling alps replacements too, but I'm not totally sure on that. If you can get one, that would be a great mod you could share with everyone here! I know I would be interested. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks!_

 

Indeed he is, I orderd the ALPS Japanese volume control from Lawrence when i placed my order last friday.

 US$10 for ALPS.

 US$10 for him to install for you. (if you ask nicley 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 Hope mine comes soon...


----------



## timb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's just a standard quality pot. I think Lawrence was selling alps replacements too, but I'm not totally sure on that. If you can get one, that would be a great mod you could share with everyone here! I know I would be interested. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks!_

 

Yup, that's what I'm going to do.

 The problem is the ALPS potentiometers aren't drop in replacements for the existing unit. I can't just solder it to the board.

 The current plan is to move the board back a few inches (thankfully it's a roomy chassis) and wire the new pot to it. I guess I'll also have to wire a new headphone jack in as well, eh? (Any recommendations there?)

 Edit: Damn, Lawrence can do the actual install? Well, crap. I wonder if he has an ALPS that I can directly solder on? I shall email him and see!


----------



## djembeplay

I ordered mine but it hasn't shipped yet... I guess I could still get this upgrade. Is it going to improve sound quality or is it more a luxury-preference sort of thing?


----------



## Steph86

Hi, can anyone let me know how the zero dac compares to the citypulse da2.03e,(sonically) and whether the citypulse is really worth $200 more?


----------



## coredump

I'm 95% sure no one can tell you how those DACs compare. Sound quality aside I believe the citypulse comes with a remote and USB input. Is that worth $200 more?


----------



## Steph86

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coredump* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm 95% sure no one can tell you how those DACs compare. Sound quality aside I believe the citypulse comes with a remote and USB input. Is that worth $200 more?_

 

Also the citypulse can be used as DAC and Headphone amp at the same time? right?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Steph86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also the citypulse can be used as DAC and Headphone amp at the same time? right?_

 

I just looked it up on diykits.com, and it is a cute unit for sure. I does appear to have the remote, USB, Head Amp, and analog inputs too. The only question is whether you want all the extra stuff for $200 more. I have no idea how it performs, or what the build quality would be like, so there is some risk for the first few buyers, until a review can be done.


----------



## Steph86

Here is a link, which shows some shots of the inside. does anyone know what those 2 red squares are?

 And does anyone know if i would be able to swap out the opamps?

http://only-hi-end.com/index.php?opt...d=18&Itemid=37

Citypulse Audio DA-2.03e USB DAC - Soundlabs Group


----------



## coredump

Found this citypulse da2-03e thread.


http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f7/cit...a2-03e-230068/


----------



## Kezzbot

$200? it says $995 on the site to me and thats without delivery.


----------



## tinseljim

i just noticed the same thing!

 btw the zero is burning in and i am very impressed so far. i'll give a more in depth opinion soon (after essays are in!) but i believe it needs at least 50 hours burn-in before you really start to see its potential. 

 i'm using it, believe it or not, with a set of e2cs which i hated when i first wore them. but now after breaking them in things are smoothing out, widening and generally sounding excellent. the harshness with a new dac coupled with the harshness of the e2cs was almost unbearable, things are much better now. 

 i'm waiting to receive an order for some flats and bowls from TTVJ for my 325s (black, old school) as wearing them without anything at all is extremely uncomfy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 also just to say that paired with an aego 2.0 or aego5 and used as a preamp works very well and easily trumps my dsp-e800 (in stereo mode of course).

 haven't tried the aego m yet...

 james


----------



## Kezzbot

James, how long did it take to get your Zero ?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Just a quick FYI. I've been chatting with Lawrence about the Zero and mentioned I was planning to put Burson Audio discrete analog modules in instead of the opamp (in the main DAC section). He told me that Burson gets there HDAM OEM from the same place Lawrence gets them from (in China of course) for the Zero. Well that was a bit of a shock but also good news. The HDAM module is 80 US from Lawrence direct. The only drawback is the cover of the dac has to be left off as the module is quite tall. Imagine a discrete analog class A amp stage, it should sound amazing in the Zero. 
 Needless to say...I ordered a Zero with the HDAM module. 


 Peete.


----------



## oatmeal769

Dude, definitely keep us posted, that sounds cool! Do you have any SS amps to do comparisons?
 No mail yet, but I'll be gone the weekend anyhow, so wouldn't be able to listen anyway...


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just a quick FYI. I've been chatting with Lawrence about the Zero and mentioned I was planning to put Burson Audio discrete analog modules in instead of the opamp (in the main DAC section). He told me that Burson gets there HDAM OEM from the same place Lawrence gets them from (in China of course) for the Zero. Well that was a bit of a shock but also good news. The HDAM module is 80 US from Lawrence direct. The only drawback is the cover of the dac has to be left off as the module is quite tall. Imagine a discrete analog class A amp stage, it should sound amazing in the Zero. 
 Needless to say...I ordered a Zero with the HDAM module. 


 Peete._

 

Is it the dual HDAM which is 80 US?


----------



## tinseljim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kezzbot* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_James, how long did it take to get your Zero ?_

 

I ordered it on the 18th of April asking for 3 modules of OPA627s. It was shipped on the 25th of April and it arrived on the 6th of May after spending a few days in UK customs. 

 BTW the OPA627 modules from Lawrence are tiny (quarter of the size of the stock opamps?). But they're soldered onto some kind of adaptor with one on top and one underneath. I'll post pics after essays are in!

 Music after 60 hours burn is beginning to sound much more relaxed and effortless. the congestion I heard earlier is slowly opening up, i understand what people mean by space and airiness! Look forward to how it develops more. 

 James


----------



## polypus

woah this thread is huge! i was up to page 50 when i noticed it went to 305, but have to call it a night, so i'm hoping some generous soul who's read through the lot can fill me in. 

 what is the general consensus, after burn in is everybody as happy as Penchum? what about the 'giant killer' question, how does it stack up against the benchmark dac 1 for instance?

 cheers and thanks for any insights.


----------



## tinseljim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *polypus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_woah this thread is huge! i was up to page 50 when i noticed it went to 305, but have to call it a night, so i'm hoping some generous soul who's read through the lot can fill me in. 

 what is the general consensus, after burn in is everybody as happy as Penchum? what about the 'giant killer' question, how does it stack up against the benchmark dac 1 for instance?

 cheers and thanks for any insights._

 

I think an interesting experiment to do would be for some of us who live relatively near an audiophile store to visit it and innocently ask "I'm thinking about upgrading my pre-amp/dac and wondering if you could help?"

 If they agree then take your digital source (e.g. MacBook with Apple Lossless) and the Zero and go to the audition room and experiment with what they have. 

 This would accomplish at least two things:
 1) See how much the Zero is actually worth and how much we would need to spend to do better (sonically that is). i.e. find out if it is a giant killer.
 2) Expose us to a variety of equipment with our known source and see if we could mod the zero further.

 I think this isn't dishonest as you really want to know if there is something better for the same price or a little more. if we don't find anything then maybe the store should bring some in (for a budget set up?)!

 Anyone willing to try? I will if you do!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 James


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just a quick FYI. I've been chatting with Lawrence about the Zero and mentioned I was planning to put Burson Audio discrete analog modules in instead of the opamp (in the main DAC section). He told me that Burson gets there HDAM OEM from the same place Lawrence gets them from (in China of course) for the Zero. Well that was a bit of a shock but also good news. The HDAM module is 80 US from Lawrence direct. The only drawback is the cover of the dac has to be left off as the module is quite tall. Imagine a discrete analog class A amp stage, it should sound amazing in the Zero. 
 Needless to say...I ordered a Zero with the HDAM module. 


 Peete._

 

That's great PP! Now if you could fashion a 90 degree adapter for it, so you can keep the lid on! I'll be watching to see your impressions!


----------



## kwekeugene

Fitting in shouldn't be a problem if you get the one with extensions. 

Burson sounds good, like a solid state should Burson Discrete Opamp 101

 (Scroll to bottom of the page)


 Can't imagine the HDAM being twice better than then OPA627 as claimed on the website. Not saying it's a bad thing though....


----------



## Citizen86

For opamp rolling, which "samples" would you guys suggest ordering from Linear Tech? It looks like the LT1364 is a must. I'm a little confused as to which one to order... the PDIF or the SO package.....

 Maybe also the LT1469?? What do you guys suggest?


----------



## oldson

just got my 627's and adapter from tube_buyer.
 very fast delivery to uk.
 but i think i got the order wrong, as i have 4 chips and 2 adapters!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 can i use the spare 2 chips in the amp section of my zero?
 or am i daft?
 tell ya wot, just answer the 1st question!
 thanks


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it the dual HDAM which is 80 US?_

 

Yep. 

 Lawrence sent me 3 pics but all exceed jpg limit of the forum...sigh.

 Peete.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Citizen86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For opamp rolling, which "samples" would you guys suggest ordering from Linear Tech? It looks like the LT1364 is a must. I'm a little confused as to which one to order... the PDIF or the SO package.....

 Maybe also the LT1469?? What do you guys suggest?_

 

It should be PDIP. Yes, 1364 is one you should have. The rest depends on the headphone. I would recommend 2x 1361, it's rather bright, but I find it to be good in the amp. Extreme clarity.

 1469 is also good. It's not bright, but clear with a slight warmth.

 Of those three, you will probably end up with LT1364 in dac and either one of the other in the amp.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_just got my 627's and adapter from tube_buyer.
 very fast delivery to uk.
 but i think i got the order wrong, as i have 4 chips and 2 adapters!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 can i use the spare 2 chips in the amp section of my zero?
 or am i daft?
 tell ya wot, just answer the 1st question!
 thanks_

 

You need two per socket, so you can either have a pair in the dac, or all four in the amp.


----------



## Citizen86

Thanks for the input Henmyr. I'll probably grab a couple different ones to try out. I'm just getting into the head-fi thing, so I'm figuring out what I like. I'm beginning to believe that I do enjoy bass, but I enjoy a lot more soundstage along with detailed mids and highs a lot more....

 Right now I'm just using KSC75's and loving it. I'm thinking about using this dac/amp to pair with future undecided headphones


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dude, definitely keep us posted, that sounds cool! Do you have any SS amps to do comparisons?
 No mail yet, but I'll be gone the weekend anyhow, so wouldn't be able to listen anyway..._

 

You bet Oatmeal. I've got tons of SS amps for testing but not with headphones. Should be able to quantify the difference quite easily with both types of set up (main rig + MKIII). I'll post a full report in this thread when I've given the Zero/HDAM enough time. I do have the opamp from the Auzen Prelude to compare and the stock Zero opamp of course. No BB 627's though....er yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Please note I'm ignoring the preamp and headphone section of the Zero and strictly concentrating on the DAC analog output only. 

 Peete


----------



## oldson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You need two per socket, so you can either have a pair in the dac, or all four in the amp._

 

thanks for the reply.
 arnt the chips in the amp single channel?
 if so i could use two on the adapter in the dac, and then two single chips in the amp (1 per channel)?
 have i got this right?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 cheers


----------



## windrider

my lt1057, lt1361 and lt1364 samples arrived today and i eagerly tried the lt1364 + lt1361 combination with the hd650s

 I am extremely surprised at the huge extent different opamps can change the sound! I was expecting just abit of difference but this is really huge. HD650 which sounded laidback and warm on the stock opamps sounds alot more forward and bright to the extent that its almost harsh.. and quite sibilant with some tracks. Alot more airiness and treble. Bass changed from huge bass to tight lean and controlled bass with adequate punch, much like how dt880s sound with the stock opamps. The mids sound alot more treble-ly instead of dark and "bassy"... In fact hd650 might even be fatiguing on this combination! Something i thought wasnt possible with the hd650 at all. In fact they sound surprisingly similar to the dt880s on the stock opamps with this setup... very amusing instead considering they sounded the opposite of each other on stock opamps. These hd650s havent seen 300+ hours of use yet so not sure if burn in would improve things or not tho.

 Dt880 sounded too thin and bright/sharp on this setup tho. no surprise here.

 Cant wait for the l1469 to arrive... then i can finally try 1364+1469 =)


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's great PP! Now if you could fashion a 90 degree adapter for it, so you can keep the lid on! I'll be watching to see your impressions! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 You know that's a fairly easy thing to do. Thanks for the suggestion Pench !! It doesn't have to be 90 degree, more like 70 or 75.

 Then again I'm not doing anything to it until it's fully tested and it works in my setup the way I want it to. Who knows I may prefer the *opamp, call me crazy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


 * If that is indeed the case someone please come by and take my VISA away


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kwekeugene* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Fitting in shouldn't be a problem if you get the one with extensions. 

Burson sounds good, like a solid state should Burson Discrete Opamp 101

 (Scroll to bottom of the page)


 Can't imagine the HDAM being twice better than then OPA627 as claimed on the website. Not saying it's a bad thing though...._

 


 Thanks Kwek !!! 

 Full Class A discrete amp module matched and hand made vs mass produced opamp. Not a fair comparison in my book. IMHO the HDAM unit IS the way to go. I'm not sure it'll be twice as good as OPA627's. Those BB opamps are excellent.

 Peete.


----------



## dacavalcante

My Zero DAC is fanally here!! =]

 My overall sound quality improved but not a night and day difference at last definitely better.....

 Do you thinking maybe my headphone is playing limiting factor on SQ ?

 I also found a lot of hiss on some High Quality no compression albuns... The hiss doesn't occour when playing CDs or lower quality recordings...

 What should it be ? recording problem or maybe my DIY RCA and Audiophile 2496 breakout (yes, I've made one) cables ?

 player: foobar -> using ASIO v2

 My old Setup:
 Audiophile 2496 Line Out -> DIY Cmoy AMP -> Senn HD-555
 My new setup:

 Audiophile 2496 S/PDIF - > Zero DAC - Zero AMP -> Senn HD-555


----------



## dacavalcante

Okay, making some tests using foobar resampler I found something....
 Everything above 44khz began to give hiss.....
 The record I have at 96khz that got a lot of hiss, had no hiss when I set resampler to 44khz.... and it grows gradually as I drive frequency up to 96khz...
 Do you think maybe it's a ZERO DaC problem ?


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FAQ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In my modded Super Pro 707 DAC, I have used various opamps: two LT1028, AD8022, two THS4031, OPA2727, and of course the stock LT1364.

 I have just made a discovery: the LT1469. At 12V (or +/- 6V), this is the best sounding opamp of all! It's just so refined, so clear yet warm, sparkly smooth treble..... Wonderful opamp. I now plan to use it also in my incoming DIYEDEN SVDAC05.

 Another very good opamp was the AD8022, but this one couldn't be used in the Zero since its max supply voltage is 24V._

 

I haven't tried the LT1469 very much in the dac, but from some quick swapping, it didn't impress me. If it is as good as you say, I might have to try it more. I do however think that I will find it overly warm. I find that it worked well in the amp paired with a cold/neutral sounding opamp like LME49720.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *windrider* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_my lt1057, lt1361 and lt1364 samples arrived today and i eagerly tried the lt1364 + lt1361 combination with the hd650s

 I am extremely surprised at the huge extent different opamps can change the sound! I was expecting just abit of difference but this is really huge. HD650 which sounded laidback and warm on the stock opamps sounds alot more forward and bright to the extent that its almost harsh.. and quite sibilant with some tracks. Alot more airiness and treble. Bass changed from huge bass to tight lean and controlled bass with adequate punch, much like how dt880s sound with the stock opamps. The mids sound alot more treble-ly instead of dark and "bassy"... In fact hd650 might even be fatiguing on this combination! Something i thought wasnt possible with the hd650 at all. In fact they sound surprisingly similar to the dt880s on the stock opamps with this setup... very amusing instead considering they sounded the opposite of each other on stock opamps. These hd650s havent seen 300+ hours of use yet so not sure if burn in would improve things or not tho.

 Dt880 sounded too thin and bright/sharp on this setup tho. no surprise here.

 Cant wait for the l1469 to arrive... then i can finally try 1364+1469 =)_

 

Let them burn in for just a while. I've found that they get refined with some hours burn in. I usually don't decide on them until they've done 24 hours. 

 I quite liked the LT1364+LT1361 for DT880. Sure, the hights are not rolled at all, but I liked the clarity and air the LT1361 have. The LT1364 is also airy with a rather large soundstage and a slight touch of warmth in the mids.
 ---------------------------------------------
 I got my OPA627BP today, I don't know if they are genuin yet, but from the sound they sure sound like it. My impression from the first day with them is that it's the best op-amp I have for the dac. The have bass punch, clarity and detail, but without as much midrange-warmth as LT1364 (which I really like, I rather have neutral than warm).


----------



## windrider

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Let them burn in for just a while. I've found that they get refined with some hours burn in. I usually don't decide on them until they've done 24 hours. 

 I quite liked the LT1364+LT1361 for DT880. Sure, the hights are not rolled at all, but I liked the clarity and air the LT1361 have. The LT1364 is also airy with a rather large soundstage and a slight touch of warmth in the mids.
 ---------------------------------------------_

 

Wow... if they are going to get more refined with burn in... i think its really going to be a killer pairing for hd650, if the slight harshness/sharpness disappears after 24 hours.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Zero DAC is fanally here!! =]

 My overall sound quality improved but not a night and day difference at last definitely better.....

 Do you thinking maybe my headphone is playing limiting factor on SQ ?

 I also found a lot of hiss on some High Quality no compression albuns... The hiss doesn't occour when playing CDs or lower quality recordings...

 What should it be ? recording problem or maybe my DIY RCA and Audiophile 2496 breakout (yes, I've made one) cables ?

 player: foobar -> using ASIO v2

 My old Setup:
 Audiophile 2496 Line Out -> DIY Cmoy AMP -> Senn HD-555
 My new setup:

 Audiophile 2496 S/PDIF - > Zero DAC - Zero AMP -> Senn HD-555_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Okay, making some tests using foobar resampler I found something....
 Everything above 44khz began to give hiss.....
 The record I have at 96khz that got a lot of hiss, had no hiss when I set resampler to 44khz.... and it grows gradually as I drive frequency up to 96khz...
 Do you think maybe it's a ZERO DaC problem ?_

 

Henmyr is correct. You are ahead of yourself. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 This is a common thing that happens. I recommend fully maturing the Zero (100hrs) before swapping Opamps or doing an critical listening or testing differences in file formats.

 Once you have the Zero matured, we can all help to find any other issues you are having with files or settings.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Hi Pench...what's up


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FAQ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I very warmly recommend the LT1469. I'm also curious about the LT1057 which I haven't tried. The LT1469 is the most refined opamp I've heard, and I personally find it better than the LT1364 which I've always greatly liked._

 

Back some months ago, I was fond of the LT1364 in the DAC, and LT1469's in the Amp. Some agreed, some did not and it seemed to be headphone dependant. I'm using the HD-650s.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Henmyr is correct. You are ahead of yourself. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This is a common thing that happens. I recommend fully maturing the Zero (100hrs) before swapping Opamps or doing an critical listening or testing differences in file formats.

 Once you have the Zero matured, we can all help to find any other issues you are having with files or settings. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You mean.... hiss can go away as time goes by ?

 I don't even know if the reply was for me.....


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Pench did you try the LM4562NA opamp in the Zero's dac section ?

 I'm gonna go back and look at the list again, thought I'd ask off hand before doing so.

 Peete.

 Nevermind...just re read your impression of this opamp.....Did you ever give it more time to see if it improved further ?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pench did you try the LM4562NA opamp in the Zero's dac section ?

 I'm gonna go back and look at the list again, thought I'd ask off hand before doing so.

 Peete._

 

Yepper. The darn thing is "bright" though! Another combo to try, for those with the OPA627's in the DAC, is the LM4562's in the amp. Worth trying at least.


----------



## rds

op amps aren't going to "burn in". That is like saying your computer is going to run better once the cpu has had time to burn in.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Pench...what's up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ow, well, I had to take additional pain meds, so I'm listening to Alan Parsons Project. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Soon I'll have some Zeppelin playing, so I'll switch to my main system and wake up my speakers.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rds* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_op amps aren't going to "burn in". That is like saying your computer is going to run better once the cpu has had time to burn in._

 

I disagree. 

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ow, well, I had to take additional pain meds, so I'm listening to Alan Parsons Project. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Soon I'll have some Zeppelin playing, so I'll switch to my main system and wake up my speakers. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Pain meds ? You hurt yourself P ? Or are you just old and rickety like me ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 APP + Zep equals = pain relief ( and a few perq's) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That description fits the LM4562NA to a T, although it has relaxed some (in the Auzen)after a 100 hours or so. I'm not too thrilled with a tilted top end like that. Correct balance with ribbon tweeters is a very fine line. Slightly reticent and the detail is lost, slightly tipped up and it's ice picky. Very hard to find the perfect balance. The opposite is true with the HD650's, which is why I originally thought the LM4562 would be a good match. At first (before the HD650's had burned in) this was the case. Now that the Senn's have 300 + hours on them that is no longer the case. Sterile is the word that comes to mind (could be the Prelude card's fault for making things worse).

 I bet the Auzen (prelude 7.1) isn't half bad with the BB 627's. 


 On another note it's occurred to me that the HDAM unit should impart no sonic signature to the dac section of the Zero thus being a perfect arbiter of the quality of it's DAC circuit topology. What do you think Pench ? Is this from left field or on the money ? It will be interesting to pit various opamps against the HDAM module in the Zero. 

 Peete.


----------



## wangerin

Somone sell me a Zero, I dont want to wait!!!


----------



## vvanrij

Lol, I thought I noticed a couple of zero's for sale in the FS forum. Btw what time is it there? I mean your in Chicago right?


----------



## arteom

I have been thinking of selling my zero, it was a great little beginning into the world of headphone amps. I ordered a musical fidelity x-can v8 and expecting it on monday. Welcome to Musical Fidelity It has a usb DAC, I will see how it will sound straight from my pc and from the output of the zero. Really like the zero though, and do want to mention using the 1358 in the DAC and the 1364 in the amp, it adds a sense of depth to the soundstage. I would have really liked the 1469 for its bass but it lacked that airy quality that was present in the 1358. Also the Denon D2000's go low as it is. 

 Anyone care to recommend what opamps I should try in the DAC of the zero with the x-can v8? I have 1364,1358,1469,1361,1057, 4562 and the stock opamps. dont have the 627 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## dacavalcante

As I said before I'm having a hiss problem on frequencies above 44khz.
 I e-mailed Lawrance about this issue and he asked me to try to change the op amp.

 Do you guys thinks this could solve the problem ?

 Another thing, I only have one OPA2132PA available. Can I substitute the original OPA2604 for it ? Is it "compatible" with Zero DAC ?

 I only have Zero DAC for 3 days..... maybe about 16hrs of playing.... do you think it would be better if I wait to see if the problem disappear ? Brcause I think it won't.......

 I'd be glad if anyone help me... =]


 DaC (Diego Alencar Cavalcante) LoL!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As I said before I'm having a hiss problem on frequencies above 44khz.
 I e-mailed Lawrance about this issue and he asked me to try to change the op amp.

 Do you guys thinks this could solve the problem ?

 Another thing, I only have one OPA2132PA available. Can I substitute the original OPA2604 for it ? Is it "compatible" with Zero DAC ?

 I only have Zero DAC for 3 days..... maybe about 16hrs of playing.... do you think it would be better if I wait to see if the problem disappear ? Brcause I think it won't.......

 I'd be glad if anyone help me... =]


 DaC (Diego Alencar Cavalcante) LoL!_

 

Honestly, I'd wait and complete the burn-in first, say 100hrs. I would also recommend looking around to see if an external source is causing the hiss.

 The OPA2132PA appears to be a unity gain stable, dual Opamp, so it should work fine in the DAC. Can someone else confirm this before he tries it?


----------



## djembeplay

I'm debating whether I should order this HDAM module with the Zero or just stick with my OPA627BPs... any consensus about how these compare?

 Any advice?


----------



## Almoxil

Hi again. After 4 months, my Zero finally arrived yesterday (that is, after paying the custom duties 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





). Great build-quality and sound quality. I'm burning it in for the 100 hours, plugged into a iRiver SlimX iMP-550 with optical out (I'm using a 1/8" to TOSLINK optical cable), listening to audio CDs. *Very happy so far.* Thanks for letting us know about this little jewel. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 One thing, though: I talked to Chan about ordering 2 single OPA627s on a BrownDog (for the DAC section) and 2 LM4562 (for the headamp) to roll amps after the burn-in (no, getting samples isn't an option here, unfortunately... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). He's sent me an email, and attached these pics of a "HDAM" module in the email. They're $80/each. I have three questiohs:
What are the perceivable improvements on the sound (if any)?
I don't have the dimensions of the modules, but they don't seem to fit inside the Zero casing from the pics. Do they fit?
In the end, are they worth the extra dough ($80 is a lot compared to the price of the amp itself)?
Thanks again!


----------



## kwekeugene

I don't think we can help you here since neither of us has had the HDAM. Maybe you might want to ask in the DIY forum for comparisons between OPA627 and HDAM. 

 Even if your go for the OPA627, it is quite an upgrade over the stock opamp.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Almoxil* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi again. After 4 months, my Zero finally arrived yesterday (that is, after paying the custom duties 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). Great build-quality and sound quality. I'm burning it in for the 100 hours, plugged into a iRiver SlimX iMP-550 with optical out (I'm using a 1/8" to TOSLINK optical cable), listening to audio CDs. *Very happy so far.* Thanks for letting us know about this little jewel. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 One thing, though: I talked to Chan about ordering 2 single OPA627s on a BrownDog (for the DAC section) and 2 LM4562 (for the headamp) to roll amps after the burn-in (no, getting samples isn't an option here, unfortunately... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). He's sent me an email, and attached these pics of a "HDAM" module in the email. They're $80/each. I have three questiohs:
What are the perceivable improvements on the sound (if any)?
I don't have the dimensions of the modules, but they don't seem to fit inside the Zero casing from the pics. Do they fit?
In the end, are they worth the extra dough ($80 is a lot compared to the price of the amp itself)?
Thanks again!_

 

I think the cost of the HDAM module has stopped most of us from even considering it. The whole idea behind the Zero was to provide excellent audio at a bargain price, so the HDAM kinda flies in the face of that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think the most I will ever spend on the Zero, will be the price of two OPA627's on an adapter. The law of diminishing returns may also apply here too.


----------



## Almoxil

Thanks, Penchum and kwekeugene. I'll keep the default opamps for the burn-in (great already), roll them for OPA627BP's (DAC) + LM4562's (headamp) after and see how it goes.


----------



## nick_charles

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As I said before I'm having a hiss problem on frequencies above 44khz.
 I e-mailed Lawrance about this issue and he asked me to try to change the op amp.

 Do you guys thinks this could solve the problem ?

 Another thing, I only have one OPA2132PA available. Can I substitute the original OPA2604 for it ? Is it "compatible" with Zero DAC ?

 I only have Zero DAC for 3 days..... maybe about 16hrs of playing.... do you think it would be better if I wait to see if the problem disappear ? Brcause I think it won't.......

 I'd be glad if anyone help me... =]


 DaC (Diego Alencar Cavalcante) LoL!_

 

I have just receved my Zero DAC/headphone amp and your news is disturbing.

 1) I doubt that burn-in will change it , if you have hiss it looks like a fault and burning-in will probably not make it go away, you might tune it out. 

 2) The opamp merely amplifies a signal, if the hiss is only present at frequencies above 44.1 this looks more like a DAC fault not an opamp fault, the opamp merely applies gain to a continuous voltage signal.

 FWIW - I have hiss on mine but only at really high volume , way beyond listening volume and also at 44.1, otherwise it sounds very nice indeed.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djembeplay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm debating whether I should order this HDAM module with the Zero or just stick with my OPA627BPs... any consensus about how these compare?

 Any advice?_

 

I too have been very tempted to order some hdam. from what i have heard they make a very big difference. The only negative comment i have is the price! There expensive.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Almoxil* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi again. After 4 months, my Zero finally arrived yesterday (that is, after paying the custom duties 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). Great build-quality and sound quality. I'm burning it in for the 100 hours, plugged into a iRiver SlimX iMP-550 with optical out (I'm using a 1/8" to TOSLINK optical cable), listening to audio CDs. *Very happy so far.* Thanks for letting us know about this little jewel. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 One thing, though: I talked to Chan about ordering 2 single OPA627s on a BrownDog (for the DAC section) and 2 LM4562 (for the headamp) to roll amps after the burn-in (no, getting samples isn't an option here, unfortunately... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). He's sent me an email, and attached these pics of a "HDAM" module in the email. They're $80/each. I have three questiohs:
What are the perceivable improvements on the sound (if any)?
I don't have the dimensions of the modules, but they don't seem to fit inside the Zero casing from the pics. Do they fit?
In the end, are they worth the extra dough ($80 is a lot compared to the price of the amp itself)?
Thanks again!_

 


 quanto vc pagou de imposto no seu ZERO ?
 Paguei R$ 140,00 no meu

 How much did you paid on duties ?
 I paid R$140,00 ($82.00) for mine.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick_charles* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have just receved my Zero DAC/headphone amp and your news is disturbing.

 1) I doubt that burn-in will change it , if you have hiss it looks like a fault and burning-in will probably not make it go away, you might tune it out. 

 2) The opamp merely amplifies a signal, if the hiss is only present at frequencies above 44.1 this looks more like a DAC fault not an opamp fault, the opamp merely applies gain to a continuous voltage signal.

 FWIW - I have hiss on mine but only at really high volume , way beyond listening volume and also at 44.1, otherwise it sounds very nice indeed._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Honestly, I'd wait and complete the burn-in first, say 100hrs. I would also recommend looking around to see if an external source is causing the hiss.

 The OPA2132PA appears to be a unity gain stable, dual Opamp, so it should work fine in the DAC. Can someone else confirm this before he tries it?_

 

yeah, didn't worked.... same problem... I'll try to find somebody else with a card to test.....


----------



## tinseljim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yeah, didn't worked.... same problem... I'll try to find somebody else with a card to test....._

 

Hi Dac, what's your complete setup? Might be able to help better. Sorry if you've posted this somewhere else!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 James


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tinseljim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Dac, what's your complete setup? Might be able to help better. Sorry if you've posted this somewhere else!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 James_

 

Hi James here is my setup:

 M-Audio Audiophile 2496 (digital out using a DIY cable I assambled) - > Zero DAC -> Senn HD-555

 I'm very worried about being a DAC problem.....

 I would be very please if it was my cable problem... but I don't see how it would not work above 44khz if it's working fine on 44khz....

 I'm using foobar with asio for playing..... already turned off resampler... tried another player..... another windows from other partition... reinstall driver.... change DAC op amp..... change sound card from slot......
 nothing still....


----------



## tinseljim

Do you have any other digital players? e.g. cd player, dvd player, ps3 etc.? If so try hooking these up to the zero and see if the problem persists. I would guess based on reading some other threads it's the non-synergy between m-audio and windows.

 Also are you running Vista?


----------



## oldson

surely an addition of a separate amp ( LD mk5, for example) would yield more benefit than this "hdam" mod!?!?
 please tell me it would!


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tinseljim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you have any other digital players? e.g. cd player, dvd player, ps3 etc.? If so try hooking these up to the zero and see if the problem persists. I would guess based on reading some other threads it's the non-synergy between m-audio and windows.

 Also are you running Vista?_

 

Really? Is There this issue between windows and m-audio ?
 I'll reinstall my linux ubuntu on it's partition and run some tests....

 I do have another digital source.... my cable tv box..... but I don't think it uses 96khz... 
 I have a friend that have a PS3, what should I use to test ? Blu-Ray disc ? DVD Audio or something ? Or PS3 Games itself have 96khz output ?

 Thanks!!

 DaC


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_surely an addition of a separate amp ( LD mk5, for example) would yield more benefit than this "hdam" mod!?!?
 please tell me it would!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

The Zero to MKV is a proven combination, so I wouldn't worry. The whole HDAM thing hasn't been tested in the Zero, to my knowledge, so it is a complete unknown. Hopefully, someone will order one and compare it with the OPA627's.


----------



## Almoxil

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_quanto vc pagou de imposto no seu ZERO ?
 Paguei R$ 140,00 no meu

 How much did you paid on duties ?
 I paid R$140,00 ($82.00) for mine._

 

_Tive que pagar R$ 180 (~ USD 108), infelizmente. Droga de imposto de alfândega! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 I've had to pay R$ 180 (~ USD 108), unfortunately. Damn custom duties!


----------



## tinseljim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Really? Is There this issue between windows and m-audio ?
 I'll reinstall my linux ubuntu on it's partition and run some tests....

 I do have another digital source.... my cable tv box..... but I don't think it uses 96khz... 
 I have a friend that have a PS3, what should I use to test ? Blu-Ray disc ? DVD Audio or something ? Or PS3 Games itself have 96khz output ?

 Thanks!!

 DaC_

 

PS3 is the best bet to try CD, DVD and Blu-Ray for various kHz. Although I'm not entirely sure if it resamples for two-channel audio. I don't believe it does. 
 Anyone else?

 As far as Windows I remember some posts about people with the audiophile have compatibility problems. 

 After a quick search this is the first hit (though not sure if it's referring to your card): 

 "Dont buy this card if you run vista
 I just recently purchased a new pc with Windows Vista and M-audio is very slow in releasing new drivers. ASIO drivers work with the card but is limited. You cannot run more than one application using the driver at a time and most other applications will not work. My PC has no audio. My Studiophile monitors hiss but nothing beyond that."

 I would say your best bet, if you still have problems, is to call your nearest music store, one that has recording equipment for sale. Tell them about your problem and I'm sure they'll be able to recommend something. 

 Hope it sorts itself out soon!

 James


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tinseljim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PS3 is the best bet to try CD, DVD and Blu-Ray for various kHz. Although I'm not entirely sure if it resamples for two-channel audio. I don't believe it does. 
 Anyone else?

 As far as Windows I remember some posts about people with the audiophile have compatibility problems. 

 After a quick search this is the first hit (though not sure if it's referring to your card): 

 "Dont buy this card if you run vista
 I just recently purchased a new pc with Windows Vista and M-audio is very slow in releasing new drivers. ASIO drivers work with the card but is limited. You cannot run more than one application using the driver at a time and most other applications will not work. My PC has no audio. My Studiophile monitors hiss but nothing beyond that."

 I would say your best bet, if you still have problems, is to call your nearest music store, one that has recording equipment for sale. Tell them about your problem and I'm sure they'll be able to recommend something. 

 Hope it sorts itself out soon!

 James_

 

Well I got the same thing on Ubuntu using OSS drive.... Using ALSA drive there was no noise, but I think it was resampling... I'll talk to my friend and make some tests on PS3 today....

 Now, Let me explain you the problem more clearly.....

 It's not hiss itself......... it's another thing..... Is a strange noise that follows the music depending on the intensity level... more specific high frequêncies (treble) level..... when the music sound intensity turns up on treble it came with more strange noise......

 I guess I'll have to test my equipment to find out where is the problem.....
 Oh well....

 I'll let you know what I got....


 DaC


----------



## Snicewicz

SOrry I know Ive asked this before but cannot comb through all these pages to find it again. 

 Where did you guys but the opamps and adapter?

 Sorry, if this has been asked again and agian, I cant find it in all these pages.

 What exactly would I need to buy for OPA627s + LT1364 and where. THanks


----------



## djembeplay

I decided not to get an HDAM module. While it sounds like they are solid performers, not being able to put the casing on would bug me.

 Also, as mentioned, $80 is a hefty price, plus IDK how much $ is would be to install or have someone install...

 Also again, as Pench said, law of diminishing returns sets in... Given where the sweet-spot on the diminishing returns curve is is subjective, I would be willing to bet that the OPA627's would sound pretty close to the HDAM to me.

 Just a thought, but I was just thinking that the HDAM module is supposed to be extremely neutral, right? While this is nice, wouldn't the sound be more affected by the sound signature of the OPamps in the amp? For example, I'm planning on using LME49720s in my amp, which are supposedly bright. People have said when paired with the OPA627BPs, the two different sound signatures balance eachother out for an extremely neutral sound. An HDAM module paired with LME49720s, on the other hand, may sound too bright...

 Just a thought


----------



## djembeplay

I was just wondering... do you guys think the sound quality of the Zero is worthy of a headphone cable upgrade? What I mean is, will I hear a significant difference if I recable my k701s when driving them with the Zero?


----------



## djembeplay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Snicewicz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_SOrry I know Ive asked this before but cannot comb through all these pages to find it again. 

 Where did you guys but the opamps and adapter?

 Sorry, if this has been asked again and agian, I cant find it in all these pages.

 What exactly would I need to buy for OPA627s + LT1364 and where. THanks_

 

Hey man,

 Check out linear.com for the LT chips. You can order some free samples.

 The OPA627s are a bit more tricky if your looking for BPs. Every 'official' retailer is sold out and not expecting for stock for about 20 years (24 weeks actually). You can buy them on eBay, but it is debated whether they are fakes or not... although people have been having good luck with them. You can buy them directly from Lawrence when you buy your Zero, but they are $30 each. You can buy them from DIYKits used for $11 each. People have reported good experience with these as well, although it is also debated whether they are real or not.

 If you go for some 627AU's... they seem much easier to find and I heard the sound quality is the same anyways.... and I think they are cheaper.


----------



## Snicewicz

Thanks djembeplay, I appreciate the advice. Ill order the LT chips right now and try DIYkits for the 627s or ill look for the 627AUs.

 Best regards


----------



## djembeplay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FAQ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why not? If the new cable provides an improved electrical link, should it not provide it anymore? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hmm, true. I guess I was just thinking... well, to make a point by using an extreme example, if I were to plug a re-cabled K701 into the headphone amp on my stereo receiver, I couldn't imagine it making much of a difference b/c the amp isn't that good to begin with. On the other hand, if I plugged a re-cabled K701 into a $5000 headphone amp, I bet I would easily hear a big difference b/w the stock cable and the new cable... So I'm wondering if you guys thing the sound quality of the Zero will easily reveal a cable upgrade.

 Maybe I'm not making sense though... it happens


----------



## djembeplay

Ya, that makes sense that a better cable would always sound better no matter what... It would just be that much less resistance from the source to your ear.

 Are there DAC/Amp combos for $200 more than the Zero that are much better than the Zero? Especially when the OPamps are swapped in the Zero, I haven't found any. I'm not saying there aren't any... I just haven't found any. Any recommends?

 Also, the argument for going with a better amp over the re-cable is tricky because I am planning on re-cabling sometime anyways, regardless of whatever my source and amp are. So, in other words, I could upgrade my amp if I find necessary in the future, but the cable upgrade will stay and still reap benefit in the new setup.


----------



## djembeplay

Cool, thanks. I have heard good things about both of those units. I'll probobly stick with the Zero for now and get the recable I think.

 My plan is... my next amp upgrade will jump ship to the Balanced world. Until then I think the Zero will be quite nice for me.

 As for the re-cable, I just need to make sure that a balanced cable is the same as an unbalanced one with the exception of the connectors. Otherwise I would need an entirely new re-cable when I switch to a balanced setup, as opposed to just switching from a SE plug to 2 XLR's...


----------



## Penchum

Well, I just received a package from Lawrence in the Mail. He has sent me an adapter with two OPA627AU's soldered on it, and one of the alps volume pots he has. I was so surprised! He has asked me to try them out and see what I think of them.

 So, I'm going to install them in my #1 Zero, starting with the Opamp change first, maturing them for about 50 hours. This will allow me to A-B my BP's and the Lawrence AU's, to see if there are any differences I can detect. I will do this part as quickly as I can, so the results will be available for everyone who is looking or thinking about the 627AU's.

 I'll swap out the volume pots after the Opamp part is complete. The alps pot is very small, with the bottom connectors for the board, and it has a notched wheel with slip lock, on the back of the shaft. This may be a fun upgrade option. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just for the record, I don't feel any obligation to Lawrence, whereby the results would be influenced and found to be positive for his benefit. The results will be solely my impressions, like they always have been here at HeadFi. I am here to help members and my audio hobby only.


----------



## vvanrij

Thank you Penchum, keep us updated, highly appreciated!


----------



## psc001

Has anybody look into this ? AUDIOTRAK DR.DAC2 Digital to Analog Converter - eBay (item 120258608404 end time May-15-08 17:45:41 PDT)
 What do you guys think as far as its potential? It's more expensive than Zero or Musiland and it only has wallwart power source but it has a lot of good points for a Dac.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tinseljim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PS3 is the best bet to try CD, DVD and Blu-Ray for various kHz. Although I'm not entirely sure if it resamples for two-channel audio. I don't believe it does. 
 Anyone else?

 As far as Windows I remember some posts about people with the audiophile have compatibility problems. 

 After a quick search this is the first hit (though not sure if it's referring to your card): 

 "Dont buy this card if you run vista
 I just recently purchased a new pc with Windows Vista and M-audio is very slow in releasing new drivers. ASIO drivers work with the card but is limited. You cannot run more than one application using the driver at a time and most other applications will not work. My PC has no audio. My Studiophile monitors hiss but nothing beyond that."

 I would say your best bet, if you still have problems, is to call your nearest music store, one that has recording equipment for sale. Tell them about your problem and I'm sure they'll be able to recommend something. 

 Hope it sorts itself out soon!

 James_

 


 Well today I have tested my Zero DAC on a PS3...... the sound was perfect normal......
 On PS3 config I set it to use 88khz and 188khz also....
 the problem is.... I really don't know what was the frequency it was using..... because it's auto selected......
 Tested Company of Heros and a car game that I don't mind the name now......
 My friend didn't had any show or studio recording... this would be better because I would know for sure the frequency used...

 What do you think ?

 DaC


----------



## direcow

my opamps are in!!

 but my DAC is not. =(


----------



## wordsworth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FAQ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Personally I'm awaiting the DIYEDEN SVDAC05 that I recently ordered. It's not much more expensive than the Zero...

eBay é¦™æ¸¯ : MUSILAND SVDAC05 DIGITAL STEREO DAC (ç‰©å“ 110242616563 çµæŸæ™‚é–“ 2008-05-12 18å°æ™‚02åˆ†19ç§’)

 But its DAC section has great promise, being as it is kind of an evolved version of the circuit topology of my Super Pro DAC which I had preferred to the Zero. The headphone amp's power transistors are not class-A biased like the Zero's seem to be, though.

 Another great, but more expensive choice should be the YULONG DAH1, I've read good things.

eBay é¦™æ¸¯ : Earphone Amplifier and DAC Amplifier for YULONG DAH1 (ç‰©å“ 110210892821 çµæŸæ™‚é–“ 2008-06-01 17å°æ™‚45åˆ†39ç§’)_

 

Been looking into which DAC to buy as my old sostenuto -1 has gone and I need a replacement. The SVDAC05 is pretty much the same price as the zero as is the super pro, however the SVDAC05 according to review on here does not have line out only pre amp out which as I already have a headphone amp and amp looking at getting either a LD MKIII or LD MKV (any advice on that one?) it seems disappointing that the sound will already be altered before it gets to the amp. FAQ will be interested to hear you views on your DAC's once the SVDAC05 arrives.


----------



## 2162

Is the zero dac any good with a headsave classic and dt 990, would it be better than just a pico/predator amp?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wordsworth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Been looking into which DAC to buy as my old sostenuto -1 has gone and I need a replacement. The SVDAC05 is pretty much the same price as the zero as is the super pro, however the SVDAC05 according to review on here does not have line out only pre amp out which as I already have a headphone amp and amp looking at getting either a LD MKIII or LD MKV (any advice on that one?) it seems disappointing that the sound will already be altered before it gets to the amp. FAQ will be interested to hear you views on your DAC's once the SVDAC05 arrives._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FAQ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have read the review, and in this regard it was wrong. The output of the SVDAC05 is a volume controlled line out, not a preamplified out. It's exactly like any other line out, just with 2 exceptions: 1) the internal digital attenuator function of the CS4398 is taken advantage of; 2) the output voltage with the attenuator defeated is specified as 3V RMS vs. the more usual 2V RMS.

 This means that you can leave the volume at max (i.e. zero attenuation) and the line out will be a pure line out, just with a slightly higher output level than usual, which could also be an advantage - like in case you wanted to connect it to a power (not integrated) amplifier directly and use the digital attenuator, in which case it'd work just like a preamp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

One thing to consider, is that these DAC/amp units are featured to be a DAC with line-level output, and a pre-amp with variable line output. Either way, the output is always influenced by the sound signature of the Opamp in the DAC section. So, in the end, it is all about optimizing the DAC Opamp for the best output possible. With the Zero, the two OPA627's on a Brown Dog adapter seems to be a favorite. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 On the LD amp issue, I'd first tell you that you could not go wrong with either amp. If you are using a decent CD player or computer card optical out, with lossless files, the Zero with either LD amp will pair up very well. I would recommend reading my reviews on both, to see which type of sound (SS vs Tube) seems to fit your expectations the best. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There are quite a few members who are looking to get both amps. One at a time to spread out the cost. This is probably the ultimate setup, because you can pick which amp to use, depending upon your mood or type of music you are going to listen too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Some have speaker systems and want to use the MKIII as a tube filter as well. This is a great way to get double duty from the MKIII and improve the sound of a speaker system.


----------



## wordsworth

Thanks FAQ and Penchum for the replies and for clarifying the line out issue with the SVDAC05. I have read the reviews and pretty much all the posts relating to the DAC's I am considering and the 2 amps. As far as the DAC goes the easiest and cheapest option and still most likely what I will go for is the zero but with a few other Chinese DACs being at a similar price range it has left me undecided though the DAH1 looks nice at £160 + £20 postage I think that is probably pushing my limited budget especially as I would like to get an amp. 

 In the case of the amps I have never had a tube amp so I am tempted to try one out properly (I have heard a few tube amps long ago including the orpheus which of course was stunning) but previously I have had SS and do like the easy of use espeically as the MKV doesn't seem to need opamp rolling which keeps it cheap as with buying some replacement tubes the MKIII is probably the same price as the MKV. Decisions Decisions.


----------



## wordsworth

how does a tube filter work in regards to speakers?


----------



## tinseljim

OK so I was playing around with the Zero a bit, changing opamps and realised something new. This may be common knowledge to everyone but I never realised that using the zero as a pre-amp with the 'phone' light on means that the preamp signal is also going through the opamps in the headphone section!

 Did everyone already know this? I think the preamp signal (non volume controlled) sounds better than the same volume with the phone depressed (with three sets of OPA627AUs). It was clearer and had better treble extension. With the button in sounded like there was a thin blanket over the speakers.

 When I switched to the stock opamp in the DAC and the 627s in the amp it was better with the phones on.

 My conclusion is that this is an interesting and easy way of doing synergy tests and comparisons between opamps. 

 Of course you need to hook it up to a headphone amp or speakers to take advantage of this quick A/B comparison.


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tinseljim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did everyone already know this?_

 

Yep, we knew, but nobody can blame you for not wanting to spend your weekend sifting through 300+ pages of posts to know for sure.
 This thread is awesome, but it's now way too big to get most useful info out of it. I wonder if there's a way to somehow index or make a 'reader's digest' version of it...


----------



## wordsworth

Probably a new thread is best with the first post being a synopsis or FAQ from this thread which was updated as 300+ pages of posts is a bit weighty to read through


----------



## holland

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FAQ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_1) the internal digital attenuator function of the CS4398 is taken advantage of;_

 

Which is exactly how it should be done. The SVDAC06 seems to do that as well with the AD1832.

 The only question is the implementation of the SVDAC05, and SVDAC06 vs. the others. It's hard to tell without looking at the PCB.

 I'm not too sure about the line out, however. My understanding is that it is after the transistors. It would be better before. The opamps would most certainly need to be there to handle the differential to single ended conversion and the LPF. The current buffers, I'm not too keen on. Hey, at least it's another area to tweak.

 The same with the Zero. The output transistors can be changed to something more impressive. AFAIK, they both use the same transistors, but most likely it's a different implementation. The Zero has some JFETs for biasing, most likely. I don't see that on the SVDAC05.


----------



## CountChoculaBot

I know this is weird to say but, um... I like how the insides of the Zero smell. Yeah.


----------



## Snicewicz

This might be a crazy question but how bad would AKG K701 sound out of the zero? Just until I build my M^3


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Snicewicz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This might be a crazy question but how bad would AKG K701 sound out of the zero? Just until I build my M^3_

 

There are a few folks doing that with positive results, so hopefully they will speak up. I don't remember which Opamps they liked best with the K701 though.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CountChoculaBot* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know this is weird to say but, um... I like how the insides of the Zero smell. Yeah._

 






 You are not alone!


----------



## Snicewicz

I dont know, I am really tempted. To be honest the only thing that is stopping me from getting new cans at the moment is a new amp.

 Once I sell my guitar I would be alright and could afford to get a GS-1 or something around that range to use with the Zero. 

 Well heres my 2nd question anyone with the D5000 and the Zero?

 And penchum, I think I may have asked you this before. How bad is the "veil" when using the 650 straight out of the Zero compared to using it from the LD MK III or V or something along those lines. 

 Thanks


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wordsworth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_how does a tube filter work in regards to speakers?_

 

Most are running their source (Zero maybe) into the MKIII's input, then running the MKIII's output into one of their speaker systems inputs like AUX. This flavors the source signal and gives the speaker system some "tube" influence! Any digital harshness is usually gone, with the mids sounding smoother. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Those who have a speaker system using a pre-amp/Integrated amp/receiver, will take the REC OUT from a tape loop and hook it to the MKIII's input. Then, hookup the MKIII's output to the tape loops PLAY BACK. This allows two things. 1. It allows you to listen to any source hooked up to the system, with the MKIII. 2. It allows you to "tube" flavor any source hooked up to the system, for speaker listening. I do this with my Vintage systems and it works great!


----------



## Kezzbot

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djembeplay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ The OPA627s are a bit more tricky if your looking for BPs. Every 'official' retailer is sold out and not expecting for stock for about 20 years (24 weeks actually). You can buy them on eBay, but it is debated whether they are fakes or not... although people have been having good luck with them. You can buy them directly from Lawrence when you buy your Zero, but they are $30 each. 
 If you go for some 627AU's... they seem much easier to find and I heard the sound quality is the same anyways.... and I think they are cheaper._

 

Lawrence has only a few 627BP's left. He is selling them for $60 they are singe op-amps so if you want to use them for amp and dac you will need 6 of them + browndogs.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 He is selling the dual op-amp 627AU module for $30. you will only need 3 of these for amp + dac. 

 I should mention most people have been using them only in the DAC.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I just received a package from Lawrence in the Mail. He has sent me an adapter with two OPA627AU's soldered on it, and one of the alps volume pots he has. I was so surprised! He has asked me to try them out and see what I think of them._

 

Awesome. Can't wait.


----------



## 2162

How is the zero compared to the dac of the predator or pico>


----------



## bam88

i've just got my hands on a zero dac yesterday.. is it just me or is there a rasping sound at the start of each track? im listening it through my desktop>zero>um1


----------



## 2162

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FAQ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IMO the Zero's DAC+amp has to be much better than both those portables, due to the space and especially power constraints of the latter. But you'd have to verify for yourself, since no one dares to compare? Or perhaps no one has both._

 

Can anybody verify please. I really want a DAC


----------



## vvanrij

Can the Zero drive a 600ohm headphone? Anybody have any experience with that? Greetings.


----------



## Penchum

Someone here has driven 600ohms with them. It was quite a ways back though. I don't recall it being a problem either, but I have slept since then. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For the concerns about comparing the Zero against portables, think about the voltage swings associated with dynamics. It is obvious that a desktop unit like the Zero will have much more on tap, for those really dynamic passages.

 For those concerned about comparing the Zero to more expensive DAC/Amps, so far to date, the Zero has held it's own against more expensive units. This is the "main" reason why the Zero is so popular. It is all about quality audio at an affordable price. Swap Opamps to your liking and enjoy the sound, and the extra coin left in your pocket. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe buy some more music too!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bam88* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i've just got my hands on a zero dac yesterday.. is it just me or is there a rasping sound at the start of each track? im listening it through my desktop>zero>um1_

 

Can you describe this a little more? Also, what type files, what sound card, optical or coaxial and so forth? Thanks!


----------



## Penchum

I just wanted to let everyone know that I hit the 50 hour mark last night and I did the A vs B comparison of the new OPA627AU's against my OPA627BP's. After eight swaps with different music using headphones, and eight swaps using the DAC output to my mini-system, *I COULD NOT HEAR A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO!*

 So, I'm of the opinion that having either one gets you the same output sound quality, which is a really good thing, considering availability!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hats off to Lawrence for providing the AU's for comparison. He has a good ear and I appreciate his wish to help out other audiophiles from his distant location. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Note: I will try to install the alps volume pot this coming weekend, and try to report back soon there after.


----------



## 2162

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Someone here has driven 600ohms with them. It was quite a ways back though. I don't recall it being a problem either, but I have slept since then. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For the concerns about comparing the Zero against portables, think about the voltage swings associated with dynamics. It is obvious that a desktop unit like the Zero will have much more on tap, for those really dynamic passages.

 For those concerned about comparing the Zero to more expensive DAC/Amps, so far to date, the Zero has held it's own against more expensive units. This is the "main" reason why the Zero is so popular. It is all about quality audio at an affordable price. Swap Opamps to your liking and enjoy the sound, and the extra coin left in your pocket. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe buy some more music too! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 and FAQ, thanks for the answers. Just what I needed


----------



## bam88

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can you describe this a little more? Also, what type files, what sound card, optical or coaxial and so forth? Thanks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm using a usb/optical converter to connect my zero to my desktop. Each time it starts playing a new sound, it produces a rasping sound for like half a second, after which the playback is perfectly fine. If playback is stopped completely and then resumed, the rasping sound comes back again. 

 Oh yah, it applies to all types of sound coming out from the zero, including sounds by windows and games.

 Anybody knows why?


----------



## nick_charles

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bam88* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm using a usb/optical converter to connect my zero to my desktop. Each time it starts playing a new sound, it produces a rasping sound for like half a second, after which the playback is perfectly fine. If playback is stopped completely and then resumed, the rasping sound comes back again. 

 Oh yah, it applies to all types of sound coming out from the zero, including sounds by windows and games.

 Anybody knows why?_

 

Ah, I had that exact problem with a Turtle Beach Audio Advantage USB sound card. It also happened when the media player (Winamp) changed tracks. I never was able to fix it. Does your usb/optical have a headphone socket, if so try that and see if the problem is there.

 I would be inclined to suspect the USB device before the DAC. Not because I have the Zero but because I have had the same USB issue. On the other hand with my Edirol which has USB/Optical I do not have the same problem...

 It is also just possible that what you have is a locking issue, i.e your PC does not maintain a consistent bitstream so that when a sound device is stopped the DAC loses lock and what you hear is a blip when it starts up and locks again. In one of my set-ups I have a 3:1 optical switch box and when I switch positions you get a similar rasp as the DAC loses lock and then re-establishes it.

 Either way I would start with the USB device.


----------



## kwekeugene

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just wanted to let everyone know that I hit the 50 hour mark last night and I did the A vs B comparison of the new OPA627AU's against my OPA627BP's. After eight swaps with different music using headphones, and eight swaps using the DAC output to my mini-system, *I COULD NOT HEAR A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO!*

 So, I'm of the opinion that having either one gets you the same output sound quality, which is a really good thing, considering availability!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hats off to Lawrence for providing the AU's for comparison. He has a good ear and I appreciate his wish to help out other audiophiles from his distant location. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Note: I will try to install the alps volume pot this coming weekend, and try to report back soon there after. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Looking forward towards the pot upgrade. It would be awesome if you could post some pictures on how to replace the pot when you do it.


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*I COULD NOT HEAR A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO!*_

 

Cool, I think I'll order some. I'm still not at all convinced the two sets I have are genuine. The cost is suspect, as well as the design and serial numbers. I do not hear any appreciable difference between them and the stock one either. 
 See this thread for more details on my experience: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/fak...s-wild-316937/


----------



## tinseljim

I have the 627AUs from Lawrence and the y do sound great. But another advantage is how convenient and easy to swap out. Of course once the're in you won't really need to swap!

 p.s. I also enjoy the smell inside the Zero...notes of tar and lapsang.


----------



## dlosborne

Now that I have managed to read through the last 300+ pages of this wonderful thread; my wallet has blossomed and I will be buying this unit.

 Ah... my question though:
 Has anyone tried installing a modified crossfeed (such as Tangent's) between the main board and the headphone amp? Perhaps I missed a post or two that covered this. I would use the same style of connectors as his to allow for complete bypass if I so desire.
 I did discuss this quickly with Lawrence the other day and he responded to the effect of, 'Wonderful idea, give it a try, take pictures, and let me know how it turns out!'

 I am willing to sacrifice the slight attenuation penalties for the sake of wearing my headphones for hours on end without my brain screaming for freedom.


----------



## vvanrij

Ok the Zero drives my AKG K240MP Sextett wonderfull, awesome! Ordered the LD MKIV se, which should be here next week.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just wanted to let everyone know that I hit the 50 hour mark last night and I did the A vs B comparison of the new OPA627AU's against my OPA627BP's. After eight swaps with different music using headphones, and eight swaps using the DAC output to my mini-system, *I COULD NOT HEAR A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO!*

 So, I'm of the opinion that having either one gets you the same output sound quality, which is a really good thing, considering availability!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Hats off to Lawrence for providing the AU's for comparison. He has a good ear and I appreciate his wish to help out other audiophiles from his distant location. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Note: I will try to install the alps volume pot this coming weekend, and try to report back soon there after. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hi, could you try to describe the exact sound differences between the stock op-amp (OPA2604AP) and the OPA627BP/AU. I really want to know if at least one of the two pairs I have are correct.

 My OPA2604AP and my new pair of OPA627BP (0018WM155) do not sound exactly the same, so they are at least not the same op-amp. My OPA627BP (0018WM155) Have a bit clearer and less dry midrange than OPA2604. The midrange of OPA2604 seems just very slightly recessed when compared to the OPA627BP. Do these finds match your OPA627BP/AU?


----------



## vvanrij

The thing that impressed me the most about the 627's was the soundstage, and clarity (as if a glass was removed between my ear and the artist).


----------



## tinseljim

Yes the soundstage is much wider, but also deeper and dare i say taller. OK more 3-D!

 Also the highs are clearer (without running through the phones stage) and there is more space around the instruments for sure. The bass is more punchy as well. Overall it sounds a bit like there is more electricity/current going through. 

 The best analogy for me at least is the comparison between being in North America listening to a set of speakers/amp and then coming to europe or UK and listening to the exact same setup. the difference is not subtle. 

 James


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FAQ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IMO the Zero's DAC+amp has to be much better than both those portables, due to the space and especially power constraints of the latter. But you'd have to verify for yourself, since no one dares to compare? Or perhaps no one has both._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FAQ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW, for headphone listening you could surely do much better than both those amps by going with a Super Pro 707 (USB or not) + a Shanling PH100 amp. $85/110 + $220, still much cheaper?_

 

You should at least hear the predator or pico before making those statements.


----------



## vvanrij

Hmm, he said:

 'IMO the Zero's DAC+amp has to be much better than both those portables'

 Which is based on other stuff I read here on the forum, correct. The portable amps are limited by there power supply, so it is possible indeed that the zero can be better.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm, he said:

 'IMO the Zero's DAC+amp has to be much better than both those portables'

 Which is based on other stuff I read here on the forum, correct. The portable amps are limited by there power supply, so it is possible indeed that the zero can be better._

 

Hmm your right I might have been a bit harsh. It's very important to provide the sources for ones statements though. 

 but there are some who have compared the pico to the apogee mini-dac (Iron_Dreamer IIRC) and found it to be as good. From my understanding (reading the forum), the apogee is in a higher weightclass than the Zero, and if pico >= apogee, pico > zero. These are my assumptions though, so it might have been harsh to attack FAQ's assumptions, sorry.

 EDIT: 
 Iron_Dreamers comparison: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/com...inidac-291801/

 EDIT2:
 It's very unfortunate that no one has yet compared the Zero to a higher cost dac such as the apogee or DAC1.

 EDIT3: I do suspect that the pico dac is better than the zero dac, but for the pico price of $500 you could get the Zero dac and a good amp like G-lite, and that setup might give a better result than the pico. So at the end, I might agree with FAQ, well waddayaknow.


----------



## scaz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djembeplay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey man,

 Check out linear.com for the LT chips. You can order some free samples.

 The OPA627s are a bit more tricky if your looking for BPs. Every 'official' retailer is sold out and not expecting for stock for about 20 years (24 weeks actually). You can buy them on eBay, but it is debated whether they are fakes or not... although people have been having good luck with them. You can buy them directly from Lawrence when you buy your Zero, but they are $30 each. You can buy them from DIYKits used for $11 each. People have reported good experience with these as well, although it is also debated whether they are real or not.

 If you go for some 627AU's... they seem much easier to find and I heard the sound quality is the same anyways.... and I think they are cheaper._

 

I bought some from them, but they are way to small for the brown bag adapter. Which one should we be looking for? Is there anything to help us?

 Package Variations and Pricing
 Part Number Package Pins Temp Price (1-99) Price (1k)* RoHS Data 
 LT1469CN8 PDIP 8 C $5.85 $4.95 View 
 LT1469CN8 #PBF PDIP 8 C $5.85 $4.95 View 
 LT1469CS8 SO 8 C $5.85 $4.95 View 
 LT1469CS8 #PBF SO 8 C $5.85 $4.95 View 
 LT1469CS8 #TR SO 8 C $5.01 View 
 LT1469CS8 #TRPBF SO 8 C $5.01 View 
 LT1469IN8 #PBF PDIP 8 I $7.05 $5.95 View 
 LT1469IS8 #PBF SO 8 I $7.05 $5.95 View 
 LT1469IS8 #TRPBF SO 8 I $6.01 View


----------



## wordsworth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FAQ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have read the review, and in this regard it was wrong. The output of the SVDAC05 is a volume controlled line out, not a preamplified out. It's exactly like any other line out, just with 2 exceptions: 1) the internal digital attenuator function of the CS4398 is taken advantage of; 2) the output voltage with the attenuator defeated is specified as 3V RMS vs. the more usual 2V RMS.

 This means that you can leave the volume at max (i.e. zero attenuation) and the line out will be a pure line out, just with a slightly higher output level than usual, which could also be an advantage - like in case you wanted to connect it to a power (not integrated) amplifier directly and use the digital attenuator, in which case it'd work just like a preamp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

A similar question regarding lineout was asked on ebay

  Quote:


 Are the lineouts taken before the headphone out transistors or after? Before the opamps or after? What's the RMS voltage of the RCA outputs at maximum volume? Is the volume control handled by the CS4398 or is there a potentiometer that I couldn't see? Thanks, 12-May-08 
 

 Quote:


 A: Dear haxOr_pr1me, Thank you for your message. The lineouts taken after the headphone out transistors, And after the Opamps. For RCA outputs: Signal-to-Noise Ratio:120dB THD+N : 0.005% For volumn control,on the front parnel of the unit,you can see there are three small buttons--the round button(in middle) is to adjust sound mode,the two triangle button is to adjust the volum+/- Pls kindly noted and for any other query,pls contact me freely. Best regards wang shuzeng 
 

It sounds like the sound is taken after going through the headphone amp which would then not make it true lineout?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Almoxil* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi again. After 4 months, my Zero finally arrived yesterday (that is, after paying the custom duties 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). Great build-quality and sound quality. I'm burning it in for the 100 hours, plugged into a iRiver SlimX iMP-550 with optical out (I'm using a 1/8" to TOSLINK optical cable), listening to audio CDs. *Very happy so far.* Thanks for letting us know about this little jewel. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 One thing, though: I talked to Chan about ordering 2 single OPA627s on a BrownDog (for the DAC section) and 2 LM4562 (for the headamp) to roll amps after the burn-in (no, getting samples isn't an option here, unfortunately... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). He's sent me an email, and attached these pics of a "HDAM" module in the email. They're $80/each. I have three questiohs:
What are the perceivable improvements on the sound (if any)?
I don't have the dimensions of the modules, but they don't seem to fit inside the Zero casing from the pics. Do they fit?
In the end, are they worth the extra dough ($80 is a lot compared to the price of the amp itself)?
Thanks again!_

 


 I'm the guinea pig for the HDAM unit. I ordered a Zero with the module last Friday. I don't have a clue when it will show up on this side ( Canaduh 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) of the world. In the meantime it's thumb twiddlin' time on the MKIII's volume control. My HD650's are finally breaking in ( 350hrs so far ). They are getting better and better. I figure I'm 75-85% there.

 Peete.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dlosborne* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now that I have managed to read through the last 300+ pages of this wonderful thread; my wallet has blossomed and I will be buying this unit.

 Ah... my question though:
 Has anyone tried installing a modified crossfeed (such as Tangent's) between the main board and the headphone amp? Perhaps I missed a post or two that covered this. I would use the same style of connectors as his to allow for complete bypass if I so desire.
 I did discuss this quickly with Lawrence the other day and he responded to the effect of, 'Wonderful idea, give it a try, take pictures, and let me know how it turns out!'

 I am willing to sacrifice the slight attenuation penalties for the sake of wearing my headphones for hours on end without my brain screaming for freedom._

 

I assume you want to do this, to move the sound outside of your head, correct? I have not had this problem and I'm not sure that others have either.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FAQ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Better the LME49720. I personally find the LT1469 to sound better, but it may depend on the implementation.

 The LT1469 has been such a revelation that now I want to use also its single version the LT1468 in my incoming DIYEDEN SVDAC05. Actually, that or the LT1028 or the LT1122..._

 

Thanks FAQ !!!. 

 Peete.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, could you try to describe the exact sound differences between the stock op-amp (OPA2604AP) and the OPA627BP/AU. I really want to know if at least one of the two pairs I have are correct.

 My OPA2604AP and my new pair of OPA627BP (0018WM155) do not sound exactly the same, so they are at least not the same op-amp. My OPA627BP (0018WM155) Have a bit clearer and less dry midrange than OPA2604. The midrange of OPA2604 seems just very slightly recessed when compared to the OPA627BP. Do these finds match your OPA627BP/AU?_

 

I'll have to do another swapping session, because I don't remember the differences very well. I do remember the DAC output sounding much better with the OPA627BP's compared to the OPA2604, running straight to my Super-T amp. It wasn't that the OPA2604 was "poor" sounding, it was more like the OPA627BP's were much improved spectrum wide. I'll try swapping again a little later on and post my impressions.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scaz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I bought some from them, but they are way to small for the brown bag adapter. Which one should we be looking for? Is there anything to help us?

 Package Variations and Pricing
 Part Number Package Pins Temp Price (1-99) Price (1k)* RoHS Data 
 LT1469CN8 PDIP 8 C $5.85 $4.95 View 
 LT1469CN8 #PBF PDIP 8 C $5.85 $4.95 View 
 LT1469CS8 SO 8 C $5.85 $4.95 View 
 LT1469CS8 #PBF SO 8 C $5.85 $4.95 View 
 LT1469CS8 #TR SO 8 C $5.01 View 
 LT1469CS8 #TRPBF SO 8 C $5.01 View 
 LT1469IN8 #PBF PDIP 8 I $7.05 $5.95 View 
 LT1469IS8 #PBF SO 8 I $7.05 $5.95 View 
 LT1469IS8 #TRPBF SO 8 I $6.01 View_

 

Either of these two will do fine:
 LT1469CN8 PDIP 8 C $5.85 $4.95 View 
 LT1469CN8 #PBF PDIP 8 C $5.85 $4.95 View


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm the guinea pig for the HDAM unit. I ordered a Zero with the module last Friday. I don't have a clue when it will show up on this side ( Canaduh 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) of the world. In the meantime it's thumb twiddlin' time on the MKIII's volume control. My HD650's are finally breaking in ( 350hrs so far ). They are getting better and better. I figure I'm 75-85% there.

 Peete._

 

PP, will you be getting a set of the OPA627's so you can compare? That would be very cool!!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PP, will you be getting a set of the OPA627's so you can compare? That would be very cool!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I thought about this..... but I'm hesitant to spend the $$$ if I know I'll use the HDAM full time. 



 Peete.

 PS I could always borrow a set from someone for the comparison and ship them back when done.


----------



## mikaronni

i know this question was already asked, but i could not find a response. does anybody have anything to comment about the zero dac/amp driving a pair of akg k701? initially, i was just going to save up a lot of money and go all out, but this device has intrigued me, and may be right to start off with.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mikaronni* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i know this question was already asked, but i could not find a response. does anybody have anything to comment about the zero dac/amp driving a pair of akg k701? initially, i was just going to save up a lot of money and go all out, but this device has intrigued me, and may be right to start off with._

 

Go back a few pages. I think FAQ mentioned the Zero would drive the K701's without issue.


 Peete.


----------



## tinseljim

"Earlier in testing, we found out that the mainboard Opamp has a sonic impact on the headboard output, but the headboard Opamps have no effect on the DAC output. Rather like a one way street. "

 Just going through back issues of this thread and came across this. We know that not to be true now right? 

 p.s. does anyone know what the reset button does on the inside?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tinseljim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_"Earlier in testing, we found out that the mainboard Opamp has a sonic impact on the headboard output, but the headboard Opamps have no effect on the DAC output. Rather like a one way street. "

 Just going through back issues of this thread and came across this. We know that not to be true now right? 

 p.s. does anyone know what the reset button does on the inside?_

 


 Most likely a mains reset ? Just guessing since my Zero hasn't arrived yet.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Anyone try an AD8620 in the DAC output yet ?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

What's with Auzentech's price for a pair of OPA627SM's with adapter ? They want 244.00 US !!! Are they HIGH on crack ? What's the diff between the DIP package and the metal can version ? Better EMI/RFI rejection ?

 Seems like a giant gouge act. There 627AU price is nuts as well.


----------



## edguetzow

Cimarron has the 627au for $49 (2 on browndog adaptor). I got mine from them and it sounds great to me!

 Link at Two Pre-Mounted OPA627AU Op-amps on 020302 Adapter (p/n OPA627AU-970601S) - OPA627-020302S


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Here's a useful link of opamp comparisons ....

Notes on Audio Op-Amps


----------



## coredump

I've read that before. I though this was interesting.

  Quote:


 In all my testing, I've been unable to hear a difference between the OPA627AP and the OPA627BP. The datasheet says that the differences between the grades are in the DC specs, so this is not surprising.


----------



## mikaronni

quick question, where can this product be purchased? i tried searching for a while and with no results. is it only able to be purchased through other people like ebay?

 edit: nevermind, i finally found the source


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tinseljim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_"Earlier in testing, we found out that the mainboard Opamp has a sonic impact on the headboard output, but the headboard Opamps have no effect on the DAC output. Rather like a one way street. "

 Just going through back issues of this thread and came across this. We know that not to be true now right? 

 p.s. does anyone know what the reset button does on the inside?_

 

Um, No, it is still true if you are using the DAC output in fixed output mode (green light off, which most use). The headphone Opamp only comes into play if you are using the variable (volume knob, green light on) pre-amp mode. Sorry if this sounds confusing, but it's the only way I could think of saying it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I believe the "reset" is a reset for the controller chip. Anyone know different? I've never had to use it yet.


----------



## tinseljim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Um, No, it is still true if you are using the DAC output in fixed output mode (green light off, which most use). The headphone Opamp only comes into play if you are using the variable (volume knob, green light on) pre-amp mode. Sorry if this sounds confusing, but it's the only way I could think of saying it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I believe the "reset" is a reset for the controller chip. Anyone know different? I've never had to use it yet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes that's what I mean, that it is possible to have both running at the same time, rather than it only being a one way street. But you're right about just the DAC definitely.

 Does this mean that we can kill two birds with one stone. We can burn-in the dac and amp at the same time?


----------



## vvanrij

@FAQ, I did try going back 2604 and the 627 is much much better.


----------



## tinseljim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@FAQ, I did try going back 2604 and the 627 is much much better._

 

x2 Definitely!

 One I'm wondering about though is the AD8xx? Anyone tried a few of them?

 James


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FAQ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think I remember you formerly telling that going back to the OPA2604 was not such a downgrade, instead it sounded great...


 Some here (say, majkel) even think that the OPA604/2604 is better than the OPA627._

 

Well, part of that comes from the general uses by Zero owners. We have at least 50% that never change the Opamps, and are very happy with it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I know that early on, many didn't like the OPA2604 and swapped out for different Opamps, not realizing that their Zero needed to be burned-in (100hrs) before critical listening takes place. Some went back after burn-in and found the OPA2604 to sound great. I do believe it is a nice neutral sounding Opamp. Nothing in excess and nothing much lacking, works fine with DAC and headphone outputs (stock opamps). My assumption was that this is why it was chosen as the default Opamp, and it's low cost too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We should also be careful to describe our impressions and make sure to include whether it is DAC output and/or headphone output based. It can get very confusing if we don't. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm sure after all these postings, I've made this mistake as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I seem to remember the OPA627s having a much improved sound stage in DAC mode, compared to the OPA2604, but like I said earlier on, I've slept since then. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll re-test this again before the weekend is out, and post my findings for DAC output. I guess I'll do that before I do the volume pot modification. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm leaving Zero #2 in stock form, so all mods are being done on Zero #1.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tinseljim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes that's what I mean, that it is possible to have both running at the same time, rather than it only being a one way street. But you're right about just the DAC definitely.

 Does this mean that we can kill two birds with one stone. We can burn-in the dac and amp at the same time?_

 

Ow, yes! I just assumed everyone realized that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sorry! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For those interested, burn-in your Zero using the built-in headphone amp. This will burn-in the entire Zero, including all the Opamps at the same time. 

 If you have a separate headphone amp and wish to use it right away, you can also burn-in the entire Zero and it's Opamps (all of them) by selecting the variable (volume controlled) pre-amp mode.


----------



## tinseljim

Ok that's all good now. I assumed this was the case but no one seemed to be saying it. It's like when Mac users don't realise they have optical out you know!

 Thanks Penchum!

 I just received the Allessandro M1s today so that should be interesting.

 edit: Do you think we could make a separate page/FAQ for which opamps go well with which headphones? I'd be happy to contribute my findings. Although I'm more used to life in the studio rather than just headphone listening so i probably prefer a slightly more clinical sound!

 James




 James


----------



## windrider

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tinseljim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_edit: Do you think we could make a separate page/FAQ for which opamps go well with which headphones? I'd be happy to contribute my findings. Although I'm more used to life in the studio rather than just headphone listening so i probably prefer a slightly more clinical sound!

 James_

 

I second this =)


----------



## dlosborne

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I assume you want to do this, to move the sound outside of your head, correct? I have not had this problem and I'm not sure that others have either._

 

True. I doubted it is an issue with most people or it would have come up before; that is why I was checking. Good to know. I will give this unit a good couple weeks before I try anything that extreme.

 (I'll keep you posted if I do end up building one, though).


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FAQ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No way - it'd burn after little time (+/- 13V is its max supply voltage). Also they say that the AD8599 is better._

 

Thanks FAQ, What voltage is the dac section opamp running at in the zero anyway ? Anyone know ?

 Lawrence just gave the tracking number for my ZAero/HDAM. Should be here late next week. Cool beaners.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, part of that comes from the general uses by Zero owners. We have at least 50% that never change the Opamps, and are very happy with it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I know that early on, many didn't like the OPA2604 and swapped out for different Opamps, not realizing that their Zero needed to be burned-in (100hrs) before critical listening takes place. Some went back after burn-in and found the OPA2604 to sound great. I do believe it is a nice neutral sounding Opamp. Nothing in excess and nothing much lacking, works fine with DAC and headphone outputs (stock opamps). My assumption was that this is why it was chosen as the default Opamp, and it's low cost too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We should also be careful to describe our impressions and make sure to include whether it is DAC output and/or headphone output based. It can get very confusing if we don't. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm sure after all these postings, I've made this mistake as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I seem to remember the OPA627s having a much improved sound stage in DAC mode, compared to the OPA2604, but like I said earlier on, I've slept since then. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll re-test this again before the weekend is out, and post my findings for DAC output. I guess I'll do that before I do the volume pot modification. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm leaving Zero #2 in stock form, so all mods are being done on Zero #1. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 I think you'll find that the Alps BV pot will make a huge difference compared to the cheap stock part. Much better channel balance, much better L/R channel vol tracking, better S to N ratio. Most likely lift a layer of grunge in pre amp/head amp mode.

 I look forward to your findings Pench !! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 PS It might be worthwhile to track down a switchcraft headphone jack and change that out as well while you have the pcb out for the pot change.


----------



## direcow

My Zero DAC came in today! I'm quite excited, been listening to it with my D5000s for a while and really enjoying myself.

 I'm now using 1364+1469 during the burn-in process, hope it'll be fine... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 half of me wants to now swap them out (just read about heat issues) but I have fat fingers and I nearly totally bent one of the original opamps out of shape. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Still, anybody have nice recommendations? I also have a pair of 1361.

 will get them heatsinks tomorrow!


----------



## tinseljim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *direcow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Zero DAC came in today! I'm quite excited, been listening to it with my D5000s for a while and really enjoying myself.

 I'm now using 1364+1469 during the burn-in process, hope it'll be fine... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 half of me wants to now swap them out (just read about heat issues) but I have fat fingers and I nearly totally bent one of the original opamps out of shape. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Still, anybody have nice recommendations? I also have a pair of 1361.

 will get them heatsinks tomorrow!_

 

one tried and tested is OPA627 in the DAC and 1364 in the amp. Enjoy!


----------



## oldson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kezzbot* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lawrence has only a few 627BP's left. He is selling them for $60 they are singe op-amps so if you want to use them for amp and dac you will need 6 of them + browndogs.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 He is selling the dual op-amp 627AU module for $30. you will only need 3 of these for amp + dac. 

 I should mention most people have been using them only in the DAC.



 Awesome. Can't wait._

 

quick question may have been answered already!
 why would you need 6 x 627bp's for dac and amp?
 surely it would be two in the dac (on adapter) and two singles in the amp!
 that means only 4 in total, or am i missing the point?
 cheers


----------



## vvanrij

2 in Dac, 2 in Amp Left, 2 in Amp Right.


----------



## mikaronni

Oh man, there were 7 available last night, now only 5. I know it's probably a purchase I won't regret. Maybe I'll spend the money now and save throughout the summer.

 Quick question: even though it is a Chinese product, it has the proper voltage for a U.S. outlet right?


----------



## edguetzow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mikaronni* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh man, there were 7 available last night, now only 5. I know it's probably a purchase I won't regret. Maybe I'll spend the money now and save throughout the summer.

 Quick question: even though it is a Chinese product, it has the proper voltage for a U.S. outlet right?_

 

Yes! It is voltage switchable.


----------



## mikaronni

Ha, ok, I think this will be my final question before deciding whether to buy it or not: does the product come with accessories, such as coax cable and power cable?


----------



## edguetzow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mikaronni* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ha, ok, I think this will be my final question before deciding whether to buy it or not: does the product come with accessories, such as coax cable and power cable?_

 

It comes with an optical cable and the power cord. You will need to get your own coax cable.

 Enjoy!


----------



## direcow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tinseljim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_one tried and tested is OPA627 in the DAC and 1364 in the amp. Enjoy!_

 

time to try to find the OPA727s on eBay then... not going to be cheap


----------



## arteom

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *direcow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Zero DAC came in today! I'm quite excited, been listening to it with my D5000s for a while and really enjoying myself.

 I'm now using 1364+1469 during the burn-in process, hope it'll be fine... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 half of me wants to now swap them out (just read about heat issues) but I have fat fingers and I nearly totally bent one of the original opamps out of shape. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Still, anybody have nice recommendations? I also have a pair of 1361.

 will get them heatsinks tomorrow!_

 

Although the 1469 is great for bass extension/control it was a bit too much for my D2000's. A nice combo was the 1358DAC + 1364AMP.


----------



## katanka

I just got my ZERO. I just got my ZERO 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So can someone now steer me in the right path for opamp changing.


----------



## vvanrij

Dunno I got the 627 + 1364's rightaway, that way your done imo.


----------



## katanka

Can anyone verify which of the ebay sellers of the opa627BP are legit

eBay South Africa : Burr Brown OPamp Op amp OPA627BP OPA627AP OPA627 2pcs (item 360051743233 end time May-22-08 15:56:49 )

eBay South Africa : 2pcs, OP AMPLIFIER OPA627BP OPA627 IC IC'S CHIP NEW (item 320252539078 end time Jun-14-08 08:08:38 )


----------



## oldson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_2 in Dac, 2 in Amp Left, 2 in Amp Right._

 

i have the lt1364's in my amp but only one per channel, is this correct.
 i have obviously got the wrong end of the stick , regarding the 627's!
 i was lead to believe that being "single" opamps, there would be two required for dac, as they are replacing a "dual" opamp. but in the amp , the channels are separate using two "single" opamps. therefore only needing to be replaced by 2 single 627's!?!?
 maybe Penchum could clear this up for me
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 cheers


----------



## CountChoculaBot

The amp needs two dual opamps, so 4 627's in total for the amp.


----------



## oldson

AH
 so single lt1364's in the amp is ok then?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i have the lt1364's in my amp but only one per channel, is this correct.
 i have obviously got the wrong end of the stick , regarding the 627's!
 i was lead to believe that being "single" opamps, there would be two required for dac, as they are replacing a "dual" opamp. but in the amp , the channels are separate using two "single" opamps. therefore only needing to be replaced by 2 single 627's!?!?
 maybe Penchum could clear this up for me
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 cheers_

 

Hi! Sorry, I've been ill and missed logging in yesterday.
 The DAC uses one "dual" Opamp, or two "single" Opamps on an adapter.
 The Headphone amp, uses one "dual" Opamp per channel (L+R), so two "duals" are needed.

 I honestly have no idea if OPA627's "singles" on adapters will be worth all the money. One adapted pair in the DAC and LT1364's (two "duals") in the headphone amp, works very nicely and keeps the costs down.


----------



## vvanrij

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FAQ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There are so many potentially better opamps and combinations 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I repeat: I got the 627 + 1364's rightaway, that way your done *in my opinion*.


----------



## dantztiludrop

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi! Sorry, I've been ill and missed logging in yesterday._

 

What! Penchum, we look to you for guidance & leadership...you can't just go & not log in for a day...wassup widdat? Seriously though, I hope you're feeling better.

 I was just noticing that this thread has almost 175,000 views & over 3200 replies....would you have ever thought that this much interest would be sparked when you started it?!? Pretty cool!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dantztiludrop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What! Penchum, we look to you for guidance & leadership...you can't just go & not log in for a day...wassup widdat? Seriously though, I hope you're feeling better.

 I was just noticing that this thread has almost 175,000 views & over 3200 replies....would you have ever thought that this much interest would be sparked when you started it?!? Pretty cool!_

 

Hi! It's good to see you over here! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I had no idea it would generate this much interest, but it does seem to fill a need for quality audio at a great price point. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm very glad that many owners have benefited from the Zero. I know I have. It has added flexibility and quality to my systems, and in the end, made my listening enjoyment much improved. Very cool indeed!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I repeat: I got the 627 + 1364's rightaway, that way your done *in my opinion*._

 

FAQ is now gone. FAQ, was another alias for the ultra-banned user Andrea.
 Sadly, Andrea keeps coming back under different names, and tries to convince others that they are wrong about everything.


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *katanka* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can anyone verify which of the ebay sellers of the opa627BP are legit

eBay South Africa : Burr Brown OPamp Op amp OPA627BP OPA627AP OPA627 2pcs (item 360051743233 end time May-22-08 15:56:49 )

eBay South Africa : 2pcs, OP AMPLIFIER OPA627BP OPA627 IC IC'S CHIP NEW (item 320252539078 end time Jun-14-08 08:08:38 )_

 

The first posting is from Tube buyer. I bought from him also, and am not at all convinced they are genuine. The ones I have look identical to this new ad. The serials are different, and suspect as well, I.E. too many characters. This from the TI website:

http://focus.ti.com/graphics/aap/packages/p-008-10.gif

 Y Last digit of the year assembled (e.g. 0=2000, 1=2001)
 M Month assembled: (1=Jan, 2=Feb, 3=Mar, 4=Apr, 5=May, 6=Jun, 7=Jul, 8=Aug, 9=Sept, A=Oct, B=Nov, C=Dec)
 LLLL Lot Trace Code: May vary based on the size of the package and available space to put the characters. Some of the smaller packages do not have room for the full LTC and use an abbreviated version.
 S Assembly Site Code
 O Pin 1 Indicator

 Not to mention the pricing is suspect as well.

 The other ad looks much more legit.


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *katanka* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can anyone verify which of the ebay sellers of the opa627BP are legit

eBay South Africa : Burr Brown OPamp Op amp OPA627BP OPA627AP OPA627 2pcs (item 360051743233 end time May-22-08 15:56:49 )

eBay South Africa : 2pcs, OP AMPLIFIER OPA627BP OPA627 IC IC'S CHIP NEW (item 320252539078 end time Jun-14-08 08:08:38 )_

 

The first posting is from Tube buyer. I bought from him also, and am not at all convinced they are genuine. The ones I have look identical to this new ad. The serials are different, and suspect as well, I.E. too many characters. This from the TI website:

http://focus.ti.com/graphics/aap/packages/p-008-10.gif

 Y Last digit of the year assembled (e.g. 0=2000, 1=2001)
 M Month assembled: (1=Jan, 2=Feb, 3=Mar, 4=Apr, 5=May, 6=Jun, 7=Jul, 8=Aug, 9=Sept, A=Oct, B=Nov, C=Dec)
 LLLL Lot Trace Code: May vary based on the size of the package and available space to put the characters. Some of the smaller packages do not have room for the full LTC and use an abbreviated version.
 S Assembly Site Code
 O Pin 1 Indicator

 Not to mention the pricing is suspect as well.

 The other ad looks much more legit.


----------



## dantztiludrop

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi! It's good to see you over here! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Yeah, I've been lurking in the shadows for a bit....intentionally observing everyone's opamp rolling experiences. I am so new to all of this quality audio passion that I wanted to purposely keep my equipment stock for awhile, including the driver tubes in my LD MKIII & the RadioShack ICs
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I know that not everyone subscribes to this philosophy, but I really want to see all of the incremental improvements along the way & feel I could do that better by really understanding how the burned-in stock gear sounds. (I figure that once you leave the stock behind you probably can't go backwards again, can you?) Slowly, but surely, I've introduced the Blue Jeans ICs, then the Mullard M8161s. Now it is time to bring on board the different LT opamps I have & the 627s that I have on the way.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyways, I'll let you know if this strategy of prolonging the inevitable upgrade proves to be worthwhile. From listening to all of you, I am betting that I'll be happy with the outcome!


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dantztiludrop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Slowly, but surely, I've introduced the Blue Jeans ICs, then the *Mullard M8161s.*_

 

Aren't they awesome? I'm loving mine!!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dantztiludrop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, I've been lurking in the shadows for a bit....intentionally observing everyone's opamp rolling experiences. I am so new to all of this quality audio passion that I wanted to purposely keep my equipment stock for awhile, including the driver tubes in my LD MKIII & the RadioShack ICs
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I know that not everyone subscribes to this philosophy, but I really want to see all of the incremental improvements along the way & feel I could do that better by really understanding how the burned-in stock gear sounds. (I figure that once you leave the stock behind you probably can't go backwards again, can you?) Slowly, but surely, I've introduced the Blue Jeans ICs, then the Mullard M8161s. Now it is time to bring on board the different LT opamps I have & the 627s that I have on the way.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyways, I'll let you know if this strategy of prolonging the inevitable upgrade proves to be worthwhile. From listening to all of you, I am betting that I'll be happy with the outcome!_

 

Sure does sound like it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You have the right ones coming, so it should be great fun to see things improve.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Aren't they awesome? I'm loving mine!!_

 

If I have one of those weak moments, where I start to wonder if my tube changes are past the point of diminishing returns, I always go back, drop in my M8161's and listen for a couple of days. They bring "wholesomeness" to the sound signature and "re-set" my brain for further critical listening. This speaks "volumes" about their impact on my perceptions. They bring order to the audio chaos in my mind. There are tubes that sound better to me, but none of them can do what the M8161's can do.


----------



## katanka

Thanks for the Heads up on the chips oatmeal769.

 And a big thank you to everyone here on this Zero forum. Especially to Penchum . With out this i would have been lost. When i first joined Headfi, i was overwhelmed by all the many different DACS/AMPS and Headphones. Getting the zero is a good starting point, and is nice that you can chop and change the internals to get different sounds. Before i read this forum, i was dead set on getting a EMU 0404, and now i am very happy with my ZERO. 18 hours of burn in so far. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now i need to try and get some grado 225's


----------



## Hardflip

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The first posting is from Tube buyer. I bought from him also, and am not at all convinced they are genuine. The ones I have look identical to this new ad. The serials are different, and suspect as well, I.E. too many characters. This from the TI website:

http://focus.ti.com/graphics/aap/packages/p-008-10.gif

 Y Last digit of the year assembled (e.g. 0=2000, 1=2001)
 M Month assembled: (1=Jan, 2=Feb, 3=Mar, 4=Apr, 5=May, 6=Jun, 7=Jul, 8=Aug, 9=Sept, A=Oct, B=Nov, C=Dec)
 LLLL Lot Trace Code: May vary based on the size of the package and available space to put the characters. Some of the smaller packages do not have room for the full LTC and use an abbreviated version.
 S Assembly Site Code
 O Pin 1 Indicator

 Not to mention the pricing is suspect as well.

 The other ad looks much more legit._

 

yet from the page you use to dismiss the tube_buyer opamps, it clearly show there are NO opa627bp with the BB logo that contain only a dimple. There are 3 with the BB logo and all have notches on the side, with one having the notch and a dimple on the lower left. 
 IMO, this is a lot better to go than a code that could have been modified many times over the years. Plus, the site itself says they might vary depending on available size.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *katanka* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the Heads up on the chips oatmeal769.

 And a big thank you to everyone here on this Zero forum. Especially to Penchum . With out this i would have been lost. When i first joined Headfi, i was overwhelmed by all the many different DACS/AMPS and Headphones. Getting the zero is a good starting point, and is nice that you can chop and change the internals to get different sounds. Before i read this forum, i was dead set on getting a EMU 0404, and now i am very happy with my ZERO. 18 hours of burn in so far. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now i need to try and get some grado 225's_

 

Thanks for the kind words! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The members who post here in the Zero thread have been totally great! They try things, communicate well with each other and keep me jumping! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 With the hours you have going, this weekend should bring about changes you are going to like.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hardflip* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yet from the page you use to dismiss the tube_buyer opamps, it clearly show there are NO opa627bp with the BB logo that contain only a dimple. There are 3 with the BB logo and all have notches on the side, with one having the notch and a dimple on the lower left. 
 IMO, this is a lot better to go than a code that could have been modified many times over the years. Plus, the site itself says they might vary depending on available size._

 

This is why I said in an earlier post, that it will come down to how a pair sounds after purchase. Too many variables for us to "lock down" true fakes. If someone is really concerned, they should get the OPA627AU's already soldered to an adapter. The cost is OK and the sound is excellent.


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_... they should get the OPA627AU's already soldered to an adapter. The cost is OK and the sound is excellent._

 

Where did you say we could get these? I'm going to get a set. Reading I've done elsewhere confirms what you said about no audible difference between 'AP' and 'BP' 

 I hear little to no difference between the stock opamp, and the supposed 627BP sets I have now. I believe they are fakes.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where did you say we could get these? I'm going to get a set. Reading I've done elsewhere confirms what you said about no audible difference between 'AP' and 'BP' 

 I hear little to no difference between the stock opamp, and the supposed 627BP sets I have now. I believe they are fakes._

 

Lawrence sent me a test set of OPA627AU's. He has some for sale, but I don't know the completed cost. Drop him an email. One thing, these are the very small AU's, which are soldered to an adapter, one underneath and one on top of the adapter. They are not AP's, which look identical to the BP's. I don't have a pic up yet, but I'll try to get that done this weekend.


----------



## tinseljim

Those are the kind I have! Yep one on bottom one on the top, very cutesy. Also way easier to plug in and out. But I'm slowly beginning to think that I like the sound of the LT1364s a bit better. At least on my system they sound better in the dac section and i have two in the amp section as well.

 if this continues to be true then i will soon have three 627AUs for sale!

 James

 p.s. I got these from Lawrence already installed when I ordered the Zero. i believe they were around 30 bucks each at the time for those wondering how much they are to order.


----------



## tinseljim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *katanka* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Now i need to try and get some grado 225's_

 

Have you considered the MS1s? I just got a pair and they're lovely, also a bit cheaper. Still breaking in though so will let you know how I get on. But if you have your heart set on the 225s then cool! I have the 325s as well with the flat pads and think they go rather well with the 1364s.

 jim


----------



## kwekeugene

I'm wondering what volume do you guys listen at? I have the Grado SR225, the volume is usually in the 9 o'clock for most songs, and probably 10 for a few songs.

 What bout you guys? Just making sure I'm not listening too loud....


----------



## tinseljim

9h30 with the 325s. Occasionallly 10 as well.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kwekeugene* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm wondering what volume do you guys listen at? I have the Grado SR225, the volume is usually in the 9 o'clock for most songs, and probably 10 for a few songs.

 What bout you guys? Just making sure I'm not listening too loud...._

 

hmm ouch. I have OPA627 + LT1469 (EDIT: I used LT1469 not LT1364) now and am using my MS2i. They are probably rather equal to SR225 in the volume regard. 

 I'm around 8' and listening to "Nightwish - Wanderlust". I would even like to be able to go a bit lower, but then the channel imbalance kicks in. 9' is waaay to loud for my ears. 

 I tested the volume with my volume level meter, I use C-weighting, fast response and I look at the peaks.

 8'o clock: around 65dB
 9'o clock: 90dB!!!!! WAAAAAAY to loud.
 I don't even want to go louder with fear of damaging my ms2i.

 To keep the ears healthy in this hobby, I would suggest that you re-adjust to the 70-75dB range. It will take a while. In the beginning you will think that 70-75dB is extremely low volume, but after some weeks you will start to adjust and will not find it to be too low.

 EDIT:
 Trying the volume test again with a rather low volume cd: "Dire Straits(Brothers in Arms) - So Far Away"

 8'o clock: 57-58dB
 9'o clock: 78dB. This is much much better than 90dB.
 10'o clock: around 94dB.

 This CD is one of the lowest volume wise in my collection, and not even now is it safe with 10'0 clock.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tinseljim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_9h30 with the 325s. Occasionallly 10 as well._

 

How strange. You both do 9-10'o clock. I wonder if you have zeros which are different than mine, but I doubt it.

 EDIT: For me, the biggest weakness of the Zero is the inability to listen at low volumes (around 60dB) with sensitive headphones. With MS2i and AD2000, I raise the volume slowly until the channel imbalance is gone and keep it there. This is around 8'. I only have 7,5' to 8,2' of the volume dial to use, rather bad. The Headfive is much much better in this regard.

 I would like to have 50dB to be the lowest on the dial.

 EDIT2: The Little Dot MKIII is also much much better, as I can listen at lower volumes.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Whats the word on the discrete module? How big of a difference does it make?


----------



## tinseljim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How strange. You both do 9-10'o clock. I wonder if you have zeros which are different than mine, but I doubt it.

 EDIT: For me, the biggest weakness of the Zero is the inability to listen at low volumes (around 60dB) with sensitive headphones. With MS2i and AD2000, I raise the volume slowly until the channel imbalance is gone and keep it there. This is around 8'. I only have 7,5' to 8,2' of the volume dial to use, rather bad. The Headfive is much much better in this regard.

 I would like to have 50dB to be the lowest on the dial.

 EDIT2: The Little Dot MKIII is also much much better, as I can listen at lower volumes._

 

I've noticed that the signal coming in via Mac optical is quite hot and it seems too much sometimes. Not sure how to regulate that without using the volume in iTunes which i'm sure degrades ths sq.

 also the signal outgoing from the pre-amp is quite hot. these are probably related. but does anyone know how to change the output from an iMac?


----------



## vvanrij

Turning down the volume of your digital signal (optical/coax out) shouldn't affect the SQ at all, as far as I know. I use this myself atm to reduce the 'inbalance' effect.


----------



## Scottyyy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Scottyyy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Quick question guys.

 Would this be an upgrade, downgrade or sidegrade (is that a word? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) from an EMU 0202 USB? 

 I've got a feeling my 0202 is going to be the weak link in my setup, but I don't have much to spend to upgrade. My setup is: EMU 0202 -> DV 332 -> HD650

 Thanks guys_

 

Does anyone have an answer to this?

 Thanks


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Whats the word on the discrete module? How big of a difference does it make?_

 

I should have it by mid week next Wednesday or earlier. It's 100 klm from me,right now, but being held for review by customs.

 AFAIK I'm the only one that has ponied up the $$$ for the HDAM module. Lawrence has assured me it's a very nice jump up in SQ over and above the already excellent BB OPA627BP's. We'll soon see, or hear 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Scottyyy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone have an answer to this?

 Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Upgrade, without a doubt.

 Peete.


----------



## [S]uds

My Zero Amp/DAC should be here late next week. That makes it over a month that I have waited for it. Luckily my headphones are still in the process of being woodied, so it didn't bother me too much.


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One thing, these are the very small AU's, which are soldered to an adapter, one underneath and one on top of the adapter. They are not AP's, which look identical to the BP's. I don't have a pic up yet, but I'll try to get that done this weekend. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Mine are like these:


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine are like these:



_

 

Yep those are the surface mount package. SOIC I believe is the official designation. I could be mistaken though, as I haven't checked recently. 

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *uds* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Zero Amp/DAC should be here late next week. That makes it over a month that I have waited for it. Luckily my headphones are still in the process of being woodied, so it didn't bother me too much. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_





 Is it being delivered by ricshaw and 1920's era float plane ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Denon phones per chance ? I'd like to try a set of D5000's. 

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kwekeugene* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm wondering what volume do you guys listen at? I have the Grado SR225, the volume is usually in the 9 o'clock for most songs, and probably 10 for a few songs.

 What bout you guys? Just making sure I'm not listening too loud...._

 

The MKIII rarely makes it past 9 o'clock for me, after that it's way too loud on the HD650's. The Zero shouldn't make a difference (2v standard out from DAC I think) in fixed output mode. Tried some DVD-A's and surprisingly I had the volume up to noon for some disc's. I think the DVD deck was compressing the signal though since I had it set to 2 channel mix down. Probably the wrong setting somewhere. Sounded really really good but strange, blame it on the mix down algorithm, or my pick of mix down method. There are 2 to pick from, I picked wrong and can't change it until I hook it back up to a TV to see the damn menu. Big drawback to the new/dead formats, having impossible menus to page through blind. Major PITA.

 Nuff about dat 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## [S]uds

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it being delivered by ricshaw and 1920's era float plane ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Denon phones per chance ? I'd like to try a set of D5000's. 

 Peete._

 

Hah, that's what it seems like. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 No, I'm getting a pair of SR225's woodied/recabled by Cody at HeadCoverage. But I'd also like to try some D5000's, markl modded preferred!


----------



## kwekeugene

Thanks for the replies.

 I think we need a standardized track so the track volume is the same. Anyone knows where we can find a copyright free songs to test?

  Quote:


 Any sound above 85 dB can cause hearing loss, and the loss is related both to the power of the sound as well as the length of exposure. You know that you are listening to an 85-dB sound if you have to raise your voice to be heard by somebody else. Eight hours of 90-dB sound can cause damage to your ears; any exposure to 140-dB sound causes immediate damage ....


----------



## scaz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dunno I got the 627 + 1364's rightaway, that way your done imo._

 

Thanks all for advice. I am now rolling with the 627 and 1364. I also have some 1361 for fun. It's amazing how there is detail that I haven't heard before. I am really looking forward to alot of lisening to music!!


----------



## katanka

Well. i hopefully have just secured a deal for the 225s at the price i was wanting. But who knows where its gonna go from there. MS2. RS1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tinseljim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you considered the MS1s? I just got a pair and they're lovely, also a bit cheaper. Still breaking in though so will let you know how I get on. But if you have your heart set on the 225s then cool! I have the 325s as well with the flat pads and think they go rather well with the 1364s.

 jim_


----------



## katanka

I have the 1364 on the way, and soon the 627s, but will only install next weekend. Can't wait though 
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scaz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks all for advice. I am now rolling with the 627 and 1364. I also have some 1361 for fun. It's amazing how there is detail that I haven't heard before. I am really looking forward to alot of lisening to music!!_


----------



## katanka

mmm. Guess im gonna have to order some more LT chips to play with the combos


----------



## tinseljim

Mine look slightly different:


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bananas* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good idea. The LT1028 is both more transparent and more musical than the OPA627. It's worth it. Note that it's a single opamp like the 627._

 

Unfortunately, it gets VERY hot in the Zero. I think that if one wants to use it it would be safest to have some sort of cooling.


----------



## Scottyyy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Upgrade, without a doubt.

 Peete._

 

Awesome, thanks. 

 Going to be ordering one soon then.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bananas* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's a pity. Does it get hot in the amp too?_

 

I haven't tried them in the amp as I only have two singles.


----------



## windrider

anyone figured any way to use the lt1028 permanently yet? is a heat sink enough?

 is it actually better than the opa627?


----------



## [S]uds

How dom you got about removing the OpAmps? They seem incredibly hard to pull out, especially being so small...


----------



## tinseljim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bananas* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not just: it's the best opamp I've ever heard. Better than THS4031 and LT1364 and AD8022 and OPA627 and so on._

 

what about LM4562 which is supposed to sound the best? also can you tell us HOW it is better rather than just the fact that it's better. the OPA627 has a lot of respect around here! but if it's better it's better.

 cheers

 james


----------



## [S]uds

Hmm, my amp just arrived, I replaced the OpAmp and connected it. The sound is VERY quiet, I can barely hear it and it's turned all the way up. I'm not sure if I broke it while replacing OpAmps, or what. But I have no clue what to do. My setup is like this:

 Xfi Extreme Gamer - Optical Out - Zero - Headphones

 Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 Edit: Fixed it, Didn't realize I had to have Optical and Phone pushed...


----------



## vvanrij

Ok FIRST turn down the volume!!
 Then push the Phone/Preamp button, the light should turn green
 Then slowly turn up the volume


----------



## [S]uds

Hah, yeah. I failed to do that and almost **** my pants. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Is there such thing as a Coaxial to Mini? I am currently using Optical, but with Optical, I can't use a Microphone with my Sound Card. I don't have a Coaxial on my computer. Is there anyway I can get around this(Such as a Coax -> Mini)? I need to use a Microphone, and the only other way I know would be to splurge and get a Trends TA-10...


----------



## tinseljim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *uds* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hah, yeah. I failed to do that and almost **** my pants. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Is there such thing as a Coaxial to Mini? I am currently using Optical, but with Optical, I can't use a Microphone with my Sound Card. I don't have a Coaxial on my computer. Is there anyway I can get around this(Such as a Coax -> Mini)? I need to use a Microphone, and the only other way I know would be to splurge and get a Trends TA-10..._




coax is digital and mini is analog as i'm sure you know. unless it's mini optical (like for a mac or mini dac etc.). what are you trying to do exactly?


----------



## [S]uds

I need to connect the Zero DAC to my Xfi ExtremeGamer, and the only option is Optical. The only way I see around this is the Trends I mentioned.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *uds* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hah, yeah. I failed to do that and almost **** my pants. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Is there such thing as a Coaxial to Mini? I am currently using Optical, but with Optical, I can't use a Microphone with my Sound Card. I don't have a Coaxial on my computer. Is there anyway I can get around this(Such as a Coax -> Mini)? I need to use a Microphone, and the only other way I know would be to splurge and get a Trends TA-10..._




Do you not have a soundcard on your motherboard? Thats the way I use it; xfi optical out + internal soundcard mic in.


----------



## [S]uds

Ah, the worked Henmyr. I always thought having 2 audio drivers installed at the some time could possible screw something up or degrade performance... Anyways, thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## Currawong

My ZERO arrived yesterday, with 627's already installed. I picked up a set of SAEC 6N copper interconnects on a whim and hooked it up to my LD MKV - now I understand what Penchum was raving about! I'll have to make a custom cable for my Apogee Duet to see how they compare.


----------



## tinseljim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My ZERO arrived yesterday, with 627's already installed. I picked up a set of 6N interconnects and hooked it up to my LD MKV - now I understand what Penchum was raving about! I'll have to make a custom cable for my Apogee Duet to see how they compare._

 

Congrats on the new purchase! Would be very interesting to see how they compare. After it burns in of course


----------



## Currawong

The ZERO was cafe zeenut's, so is already burned in. It's a close call to be honest. I plugged my IC's into the Duet's HP socket via an adaptor just now to be sure it wasn't my cheaper ICs and the break-out cable coloring things: The ZERO with 627's sounds a bit more musical and the Duet a bit more analytical, but it's very subtle and more something which is apparent after listening for some time. Listening using the Duet as a DAC is definitely more tiring for me using the ALO K701's. As a contrast though, I love the Duet as a HP amp for my UE 10's. The Duet sounds to me, doing a bit of AB'ing, more detailed with better separation, however. It'd be interesting I reckon to have the Duet as a DAC for a tube amp. Of course, for your Duet dollars, you're getting a piece of good-quality recording kit as well.

 I'm going to grab a Van Den Hul Toslink to Mini Optocoupler soonish to see what difference that makes.

 I wonder what opamp combo Penchum settled on for listening with his ZERO....


----------



## tinseljim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The ZERO was cafe zeenut's, so is already burned in. It's a close call to be honest. I plugged my IC's into the Duet's HP socket via an adaptor just now to be sure it wasn't my cheaper ICs and the break-out cable coloring things: The ZERO with 627's sounds a bit more musical and the Duet a bit more analytical, but it's very subtle and more something which is apparent after listening for some time. Listening using the Duet as a DAC is definitely more tiring for me using the ALO K701's. As a contrast though, I love the Duet as a HP amp for my UE 10's.

 I'm going to grab a Van Den Hul Toslink to Mini Optocoupler soonish to see what difference that makes.

 I wonder what opamp combo Penchum settled on for listening with his ZERO...._

 

That is good news! I'm also looking to get an optocoupler as they get good reviews from a wide variety of people. If it doesn't work out it resells on the ebay well.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The ZERO was cafe zeenut's, so is already burned in. It's a close call to be honest. I plugged my IC's into the Duet's HP socket via an adaptor just now to be sure it wasn't my cheaper ICs and the break-out cable coloring things: The ZERO with 627's sounds a bit more musical and the Duet a bit more analytical, but it's very subtle and more something which is apparent after listening for some time. Listening using the Duet as a DAC is definitely more tiring for me using the ALO K701's. As a contrast though, I love the Duet as a HP amp for my UE 10's. The Duet sounds to me, doing a bit of AB'ing, more detailed with better separation, however. It'd be interesting I reckon to have the Duet as a DAC for a tube amp. Of course, for your Duet dollars, you're getting a piece of good-quality recording kit as well.

 I'm going to grab a Van Den Hul Toslink to Mini Optocoupler soonish to see what difference that makes.

 I wonder what opamp combo Penchum settled on for listening with his ZERO...._

 

Hehehe! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well, you'd think I had some of it figured out by now! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For me, I have finalized using the OPA627's in the DAC, and LT1364's in the headphone amp section. The 627's give me a full spectrum with nice sound stage, and the LT1364's add a little punch, with some extra highlights in the right places. Even though I don't use the Zero's headphone amp that often, it is nice to just plug in sometimes and not startup a crap load of equipment. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I like this combination of Opamps mostly for the DAC output. It works very well for my tube amps, and my SS MKV, and my digital mini-system, with very little compromise among them. This also makes my Zero the perfect digital bridge for my old analog Vintage systems.

 There will always be two concentrated usages for the Zero. One is the folks who use the entire unit, two, are the folks who use mostly the DAC only, to drive a separate amp. Depending on the sources involved, and the headphones being used, there will be better combinations of Opamps for each situation. The combination I use seems to be the best "overall" combination, for both uses and all the variables.

 It does my heart good, to see other folks finding the same pleasures in their Zeros that I have found. This is not a small crowd either! This is a very diverse crowd, using the Zero in a multitude of ways! We have students on a budget, DIY'ers, SS freaks, Analog freaks, Digital freaks, DAC freaks, headphone freaks, audiophiles and numerous other freakage types, and almost all of them have found a "sweet spot" with their Zeros. I don't know of any other audio product that has satisfied such a wide audience at such a small price point. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Lawrence is the man!


----------



## vvanrij

Yeah I also settled for 627's + 1364's, also still gonna use it as a SS amp, to switch between after my MKIV arrives. Is there a better combination for DAC only (so no use of amp) output?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah I also settled for 627's + 1364's, also still gonna use it as a SS amp, to switch between after my MKIV arrives. Is there a better combination for DAC only (so no use of amp) output?_

 

Only different, not better, was the impression I got. The 627's are hard to beat for DAC output.


----------



## tinseljim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 Lawrence is the man! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

He sure is! And we have recently been in touch and even though he lives in Hong Kong I asked him if the earthquake had affected him and/or his family. i hope it's ok to share here what he said? I don't want to put a downer on things but it seems so easy to get stuck in our world and not see a bigger picture sometimes (not saying anyone's doing that, this is a head-fi forum afterall)! But since we owe much of our enjoyment to Lawrence, as Penchum said, i thought it appropriate to post what he said.

 Lawrence: "My family all live in Hong Kong and have no physical damage but spiritial damage are more important.

 Everyday news report updated and precedent news about the disaster. Many many people lost their life and many homes ate by the earthquake.

 Many children lost their parent and many still waiting for rescure under the ground.

 I am massive and everyday move many steel in gym(
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). but I don't have a chance to help them to lift up the cement.

 I found many neigbouring countries also sent their rescuse team to China.

 Even Japan which is an enemy rather than a good neighbour in the 2nd World War also be the 1st outside rescure team came into China.

 Even race is not important than life.

 Just wonder life have no choice. The only thing I can do is donate to the people in need who suffered from the earthquake.

 May be you can let the forum people to treasure everthing they own."

 Treasure what we own indeed, but more importantly our friends and loved ones who are with us. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 James


----------



## smirnoff04

Has anyone found that they prefer the sound using a coaxial cable as opposed to optical?

 Funny thing, I was at a buddy's apartment helping set up a beautiful new pair of Wharfedale speakers and we needed an optical cable to connect up the cd player. So I said I'd give him mine that I was using with the Zero because I've got a coaxial cable kicking around I can replace it with. I just got home and decided to turn on some tunes, so I connected up the Zero with the coaxial and turned on some Rush. My reaction was immediate, what a distinct difference! The low end seems to have miraculously extended even lower, and has a more clearly defined sound. Instruments seem more distinguished, and everything now has an impact, a wow factor, that wasn't as great before. I'd gone probably 2 or 3 months now with the optical connection and figured there'd be no difference, so I never tried it. I'm using dt770(80ohms) btw. I was starting to think this was just in my head, but no, I went through all my favourites and each one seemed changed.

 Yay for better sound I guess!


----------



## vvanrij

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tinseljim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am massive and everyday move many steel in gym(
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)._

 

Haha 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have heard people call themselves 'pretty big', but never massive haha


----------



## tinseljim

I know right! I bet he must be a hilarious guy. 

 Glad to hear his family is safe.


----------



## bond

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *smirnoff04* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone found that they prefer the sound using a coaxial cable as opposed to optical?

 Funny thing, I was at a buddy's apartment helping set up a beautiful new pair of Wharfedale speakers and we needed an optical cable to connect up the cd player. So I said I'd give him mine that I was using with the Zero because I've got a coaxial cable kicking around I can replace it with. I just got home and decided to turn on some tunes, so I connected up the Zero with the coaxial and turned on some Rush. My reaction was immediate, what a distinct difference! The low end seems to have miraculously extended even lower, and has a more clearly defined sound. Instruments seem more distinguished, and everything now has an impact, a wow factor, that wasn't as great before. I'd gone probably 2 or 3 months now with the optical connection and figured there'd be no difference, so I never tried it. I'm using dt770(80ohms) btw. I was starting to think this was just in my head, but no, I went through all my favourites and each one seemed changed.

 Yay for better sound I guess! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Yup, definitely coaxial sounds better. My suggestion is to try the Belden 1694A or 1695A from Blue Jeans Cables - I use and love the 1694A with my Super Pro DAC, and I definitely prefer it over the Blue Jeans optical cable.


----------



## smirnoff04

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bond* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yup, definitely coaxial sounds better. My suggestion is to try the Belden 1694A or 1695A from Blue Jeans Cables - I use and love the 1694A with my Super Pro DAC, and I definitely prefer it over the Blue Jeans optical cable._

 

I'm using this one from monoprice right now. Do you think it's comparable? Or would there be a dramatic improvement (like say going from optical to coaxial 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)?


----------



## coredump

I got my OPA627BPs in yesterday and so far I'm not impressed. They seem to be a definite step down from the stock OPA2604. Clarity is the biggest problem. I'm listening to Jack Johnson with the 2604 and I can clearly hear his fingers rap on the guitar. With the 627BPs it just sound like an undefined thump. I turned the equalizer off and they sounded even worse. I can't imagine that burn in will improve them enough to sound better than the 2604.


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bond* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yup, definitely coaxial sounds better. My suggestion is to try the Belden 1694A or 1695A from Blue Jeans Cables - I use and love the 1694A with my Super Pro DAC, and I definitely prefer it over the Blue Jeans optical cable._

 

OT, but can I assume that Andrea = FAQ = Bananas = bond ?


----------



## vvanrij

I sure hope coredump hasn't received the first official fake 627 :| Because mine sounds exactly opposite of what you describe.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OT, but can I assume that Andrea = FAQ = Bananas = bond ?_

 






Ya


----------



## Penchum

I went ahead and did the volume pot replacement today. It was very easy and took me about 20 minutes going slow. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have some pics and I'll put in a little narrative along with them.

 Here is a pic of the stock headphone amp board, with the stock volume pot.





 Here is a close up of the stock setup, so you can see how much space is beside and behind the stock volume pot.





 Two screws hold the Headphone amp board to stanchions that rise up from the bottom of the Zero. I removed them, removed the volume knob, and the nut & washer from the shaft. Once removed, I made quick work of the de-soldering, and used a pick to make sure the holes were clear.





 I stuck the new volume pot in place, and looked it over for fit. Notice how close it is to that blue cap. It just barely touches and doesn't present a problem.





 After soldering it in place, I took a close look at my soldering job, just to make sure everything was OK. There is a small metal tab on the front of the pot, that needs to be clipped off. You can see it here, and in the next pic, it is gone. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








 Here are several shots of the new volume pot in place, and ready to go.

















 Here is a shot of the Zero, back doing it's job. The volume knob now has a very distinct click as you notch it up. The first two clicks are silent, and the third is very hard to hear, but both channels are equal, so this may be a good fix for those with the low volume balance problems.





 This mod should only be done by those who have soldering skills. It is not difficult, and takes very little time to accomplish. The new pot is silent, where my old one was not, so I do recommend it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Have a good one!


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I went ahead and did the volume pot replacement today. It was very easy and took me about 20 minutes going slow. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have some pics and I'll put in a little narrative along with them.

 ...

 This mod should only be done by those who have soldering skills. It is not difficult, and takes very little time to accomplish. The new pot is silent, where my old one was not, so I do recommend it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Have a good one!_

 

Nice one!

 Do you see any other text on the poti than 100KAX2 and 063S?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I sure hope coredump hasn't received the first official fake 627 :| Because mine sounds exactly opposite of what you describe._

 

X2 !!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice one!

 Do you see any other text on the poti than 100KAX2 and 063S?_

 

Only the stamped in ALPS and Japan. I'm pretty sure the model number is the 100KAX2.


----------



## kmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Only the stamped in ALPS and Japan. I'm pretty sure the model number is the 100KAX2. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Found these: ALPS-100K-STEREO-AUDIO-AMPLIFIER-VOLUME-CONTROL-POT.
 They are also 100KAX2, but with a housing and other connector pins.
 Did you remove one pair of pins?


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *smirnoff04* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone found that they prefer the sound using a coaxial cable as opposed to optical?_

 

A friend of mine, both a muso and a hi-fi guru, recommends using coaxial as opposed to optical. Thankfully though, the Optocoupler can be had as toslink to mini, which will be perfect for my MacBook Pro.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I went ahead and did the volume pot replacement today. It was very easy and took me about 20 minutes going slow. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have some pics and I'll put in a little narrative along with them._

 

You just answered my next question! I want to change the knob on the zero and remove the noise on the HP/pre-amp stage, so if this solves it, i'll dust off my soldering skills at some point.


----------



## vvanrij

Hey Penchum, great work on the pot! And thank you very much for including the pictures, especially the 2nd one, now I can see how the MKIVse fits on the zero, looks great imo. Mine should arrive today! And is there a way to block this faq/bananas/bond guy (IP-Block), he gets me confused all the time with his weird and based-on-nothing wisdoms. Just make a google search on optical vs coax and you'l see what I mean 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 haha


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Found these: ALPS-100K-STEREO-AUDIO-AMPLIFIER-VOLUME-CONTROL-POT.
 They are also 100KAX2, but with a housing and other connector pins.
 Did you remove one pair of pins?_

 

Ya, there was a set of pins already removed by Lawrence. In the pic, the pins are missing from the end closest to the blue cap.

 Note: the sixth pic down, shows it the best.


----------



## Penchum

Ya, the Bananas/Bond/******/FAQ has like 30 or more names now. The real users name is Andrea. From what I understand, this banning has been going on for like 2 years or more. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 I hope someone is keeping track of all the names Andrea has used. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Here is a well known thread about Andrea: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f11/at...t-life-288523/


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A friend of mine, both a muso and a hi-fi guru, recommends using coaxial as opposed to optical. Thankfully though, the Optocoupler can be had as toslink to mini, which will be perfect for my MacBook Pro.



 You just answered my next question! I want to change the knob on the zero and remove the noise on the HP/pre-amp stage, so if this solves it, i'll dust off my soldering skills at some point._

 

My #1 Zero had noise I couldn't get rid of by cleaning, so this was a great time to see if it was the cause (for sure). In my case, it was. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'd like to find out which of the new (blue square looking) ALPS pots would work in the Zero. Even if it didn't have detents and was smooth, this would be fine for my #2 Zero. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Any suggestions out there??


----------



## Citizen86

Hey Penchum, I've been reading around on Head-Fi (damn curse), and I remembered you did the review of this amp with HD650's, but you've obviously also heard them through much more expensive/higher quality amps. Do you think this Zero amp is able to push your 600ohm monsters to their full potential??

 Also, I'm not able to read through the now thousands of posts... has anyone found some headphones which have some great synergy with this dac/amp?


----------



## ccschua

I am using

 DVD player optical out -> ZERO DAC -> Tube hybrid amp -> B&W 602 S3 bookshelf.

 I am using Stock OPAMP OP2604 then changed to OPA627 on browndog later found the later too bright/too much details since I want tube like sound. 

 I wonder if the following if good for tube like in the DAC Section: -
 LT 1361
 LT 1469

 LT1028
 DY2000

 I like so much AD797, but as i understand it cant be used right ?


----------



## murokakku

Hi!

 I'm total newbie in these opa chancing things so excuse my questions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I opened my zero and i saw two chips in the amp section. If i want to replace them i need two opa's too? For example two these? Linear Technology - LT1361 - Dual and Quad 50MHz, 800V/µs Op Amps LT1361 LT1361CN8#PBF LT1361CS8#TR LT1361CS8#PBF LT1361CN8 LT1361CS8 LT1361CS8#TRPBF


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Great job on the pot swap Pench !!! 
 You should notice a marked increase in transparency, detail retrieval, and a slight improvement in dynamics and imaging*. It may be more noticeable when used a preamp for the T-Amp/speaker rig for the latter.

 *referring to HP/pre-amp section only.

 Please post your impressions when you have a chance to "crank it" so to speak 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Regards,

 Peete.

 PS My Zero/HDAM module is only 100 klm's from me now, wonder how long it will take Can Post to deliver it ? My guess is 48-72 hrs,( many coffee breaks, and 2 trips to the peeler club for the postal worker ) either Wed or Thurs. I'll be shocked if it shows up tomorrow 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Today is a holiday ( Victoria Day, yeah Queen Victoria, old bat 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## coredump

Ok I need another OpAmp suggestion. I prefer the sound of the 2604 over the OPA627 but sadly my 2604 burst into flame. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well maybe not flames but it crackled and spit out a bunch of smoke. I have no idea what happened but I was swapping OpAMPs back and forth and then poof. Now my nose is filled the smell of burnt electronics. The good news is that the Zero is fine. 

 So anyway I'd like somethng with a lot of bright detail that isn't the OPA627.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coredump* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok I need another OpAmp suggestion. I prefer the sound of the 2604 over the OPA627 but sadly my 2604 burst into flame. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well maybe not flames but it crackled and spit out a bunch of smoke. I have no idea what happened but I was swapping OpAMPs back and forth and then poof. Now my nose is filled the smell of burnt electronics. The good news is that the Zero is fine. 

 So anyway I'd like somethng with a lot of bright detail that isn't the OPA627. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Oooops......sorry to hear of the mishap. Hopefully your Zero is ok. 

 Maybe a LM4562 ? It's bright(ish) and has good bottom end,smooth mids. Check Penchums notes on the opamps he tested on the first page of the thread.

 Peete.


----------



## coredump

It's kind of funny really. The 2604 has a crack going down the middle. I wonder if I swapped them out too fast. The 627 really heats things up but they sit above the board. The 2604 sits right on it. 

 I got some memsinks I can put on the 627s but they are a bit big. Will anything short out if I use one cooler for both chips?


----------



## Snicewicz

Well I got my D5000 today, and with the Zero I would have to say it sounds great. Also to make the day even better, my LT1364 "samples" came today too


----------



## Citizen86

That's good to hear snicewicz, I was considering the D2000's along with this DAC/Amp..... hopefully they'll sound great together if I end up ordering them both


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coredump* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's kind of funny really. The 2604 has a crack going down the middle. I wonder if I swapped them out too fast. The 627 really heats things up but they sit above the board. The 2604 sits right on it. 

 I got some memsinks I can put on the 627s but they are a bit big. Will anything short out if I use one cooler for both chips?_

 



 You can use one if you want just make sure the thermal grease makes no contact with (if it's conductive, like Arctic silver) with any metal legs causing a short. Not a lot of room in there so be careful. I wouldn't bother with the heat sink but that's just me.

 Have you damped the crystal can ? Some blu-tak on it helps. You might want to try isolating the Zero from vibration. Vibration dampening of the entire unit is a worthwhile tweak that improves overall SQ for not a lot of money (DIY roller blocks are excellent for this). 

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Snicewicz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I got my D5000 today, and with the Zero I would have to say it sounds great. Also to make the day even better, my LT1364 "samples" came today too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 How much were the Denon cans ? I've lots of good things about these HP's. 


 Peete.


----------



## Snicewicz

I got them for 430 from amazon. It is a good price for them. I had to get next day shipping so all together it was 450.


----------



## direcow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Snicewicz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I got my D5000 today, and with the Zero I would have to say it sounds great. Also to make the day even better, my LT1364 "samples" came today too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I have a similar rig (As mentioned earlier, 1354 in DAC, 1469 in AMP, with heatsinks)... they haven't reached 100 hours yet, but it's already so smooth... I bet you'll enjoy it too!


----------



## djembeplay

I have a couple questions about shipping. Here are the last three messages of the tracking of my Zero...

 15-May-2008 United States of America Arrived and is being processed. 
 15-May-2008 United States of America Pending customs inspection. 
 19-May-2008 United States of America Unsuccessful delivery. 

 I'm wondering... does everyone experience the 'Pending customs inspection' period?

 Also, does unsuccessful delivery mean that it didn't get through customs or does it mean they tried to deliver the package to my house when I wasn't home?

 Thanks.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djembeplay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a couple questions about shipping. Here are the last three messages of the tracking of my Zero...

 15-May-2008 United States of America Arrived and is being processed. 
 15-May-2008 United States of America Pending customs inspection. 
 19-May-2008 United States of America Unsuccessful delivery. 

 I'm wondering... does everyone experience the 'Pending customs inspection' period?

 Also, does unsuccessful delivery mean that it didn't get through customs or does it mean they tried to deliver the package to my house when I wasn't home?

 Thanks._

 


 In short.....yup.

 Dunno about the delivery part. Were you home on the 19th ?

 Peete.

 PS My Zero arrives today. Cool (so says the track number, we'll see).


----------



## tinseljim

edit: just saw post peete. let us know!


 Yep unsuccessful delivery means they tried and you weren't there. And I too had to wait for customs as did others. Some got away with it though!

 BTW
 This should end the optical vs. coax once for all!

6moons.com - audio reviews: A Toslink vs. RCA digital cable comparison

 and

6moons.com - audio reviews: Birdland Audio Odeon-Ag
 (scroll to the bottom and next page)

 There is barely, if any, any difference with good opticals. Studios use them all the time. I think an argument could be made that cheap coax is better than cheap optical. 

 But there doesn't seem to be any difference between say the Super Nova 5 and coax cables costing 3 times as much!
 so overall more economical for optical. It does indeed seem to be a myth going round that coax is always better.


----------



## JeffMac

I've been following this thread recently. I think I've read most of it, and I love the idea of such a budget component allowing what I think are relatively simple upgrade options. I have a couple of questions.

 First -- (_WARNING: Seriously dopey question in 3...2...1_) switching out op-amps doesn't require any soldering, does it? As in, it's just drop in, drop out, like swapping out RAM on a motherboard?

 Also, in the original post, Penchum talks about installing the 627s on a "Brown Dog Adapter." Is this the one? Looks like it includes two of the op-amps right on the board, which sounds right, but I just want to make sure.

 Lastly, is there a specific trusted ebayer for the Zero? (I see a couple on there who sell them new, but it's not like it is with, say, Little Dot, where you're buying from the guy who makes it.)

 Thanks so much. (And thanks for the great thread on this DAC!)


----------



## tinseljim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JeffMac* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been following this thread recently. I think I've read most of it, and I love the idea of such a budget component allowing what I think are relatively simple upgrade options. I have a couple of questions.

 First -- (WARNING: Seriously dopey question in 3...2...1) switching out op-amps doesn't require any soldering, does it? As in, it's just drop in, drop out, like swapping out RAM on a motherboard?

 Also, in the original post, Penchum talks about installing the 627s on a "Brown Dog Adapter." Is this the one? Looks like it includes two of the op-amps right on the board, which sounds right, but I just want to make sure.

 Lastly, is there a specific trusted ebayer for the Zero? (I see a couple on there who sell them new, but it's not like it is with, say, Little Dot, where you're buying from the guy who makes it.)

 Thanks so much. (And thanks for the great thread on this DAC!)_

 

Yep no soldering needed in the Zero! Most people use Lawrence (Chan) to buy from who can also sell you the 627s already on the adapters (627au). Hope that helps. I bought mine from Lawrence and say he's great, though his English is phun to reed.


----------



## djembeplay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In short.....yup.

 Dunno about the delivery part. Were you home on the 19th ?

 Peete.

 PS My Zero arrives today. Cool (so says the track number, we'll see)._

 

Oh, ok, cool... thanks for the info guys.

 Indeed I wasn't here at all on the 19th... they must need a signature on delivery I'm guessing...? So, they're going to try again, right? Lol, I hope so...

 So what do customs do with the package... open it and inspect for opium or something?


----------



## coredump

I want to give the AD843 a try in the DAC but I'm not sure which model I need. Digikey has these two. 

 AD843KNZ
 AD843JNZ

 Well on further review it looks like either will work.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Well blow me down, CP delivered the little beasty at 11:45 am today. Burning it in with the HDAM module installed as we speak. Had the BB 2604 in for 2 hours then threw in the HDAM unit. No contest. Huge improvement over the stock opamp. The best way to describe (so far) the HDAM is the best qualities of SS mixed with the best qualities of tubes. I'm glad I bought it. 
 Too early to say much about overall SQ, although it's pretty good OOTB. Lawrence told me the HDAM needs 50 hours min to settle in. We all know the rest of the Zero needs about a hundred hours. I'll run it 24/7 for next 6 days.

 I should get my OPA627's this week sometime (I hope). Should be able to give a full run down by late next week. OPA627 vs HDAM will be the main topic. I have on hand LM4562,AD825 with LT samples coming in a week or two.

 It's a cool little box. Haven't tried it with the MK III yet. It's being fed by coax from a DVDA player to my Pink Floyd modded X-10 V3/X-PSU set up right into the Meixing MC-7R preamp in the main rig.

 Have to go for now, kids dance class etc...

 Peete.

 PS To be fair to the OPA2604, I'm sure it will aquit itself better once the Zero is fully burned in.


----------



## djembeplay

Cool- I'm looking forward to the HDAM to OPA627 comparison Peete.

 So it's 5:30 where I am now and... still no sign of my Zero...

 Maybe they are shipping it back to China...? Does anyone know if the shipping company makes multiple attempts at delivery?

 I wish they would leave something indicating when they will be back so I would know when to be here....


----------



## Skywatcher

What is the delivery company? (as in, in which site do you do the tracking?) 

 Call them with the tracking No. and reschedule a delivery.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I'm put in a request for samples from LT. They don't deliver to your address outside the US. I'm gonna have a local LT sales rep deliver them(according to the website) LOL.

 This should be hilarious considering the BS I put in the application 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll bet they just blow it off.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quickie update, moved the Zero over to the head phone set up. A nice improvement across the board. I can see why Pench gets a stiffie over these


----------



## cafe zeenuts

I have request samples from LT before and dont worry they will mail to address outside of US no trouble. They are not going to have a local rep deliver them, its going to cost them too much money...


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Quickie update, moved the Zero over to the head phone set up. A nice improvement across the board. I can see why Pench gets a stiffie over these 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Zero = Audio Viagra.


----------



## djembeplay

I found a USPS slip in my mailbox earlier today saying they had missed delivery. They will try again or I can go pick it up. 

 So, ya, that's a refief... I hadn't realized that USPS takes over the shipment from Hongkong Post at some point in the chain... Heh, I feel pretty silly now... reflecting on the company name "Hongkong Post", it makes sense that another shipping company would take over the delivery. Hmm... I hardly know anything about how global shipping works, actually... It's amazing that these different shipping companies can collaborate with eachother to deliver things so quickly...


----------



## Kezzbot

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yilmaz196* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got mine yesterday, i have xfi notebook, and used its optical out to the zero, i chosed digital out in xfi setup._

 

My zero arrived today and I have two problems. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I have the X-fi notebook but i cannot find any digital out settings in Creative console launcher or Creative audio console to enable digital out, some of the normal tabs are missing that you would find on other x-fi cards.
 But clearly yilmaz196 got his working, so can someone who has a X-fi Notebook and has optical out working guide my nub ass.
 This is what it looks like on my comp:





 Also there is a loud buzzing that is coming from the headphones when the zero is turned on, you can change the volume of the buzzing with the volume control so that at about 9 O'clock it is quite loud. When i touch the RCA outs or the coax in the volume of the buzzing decreases.
 The buzzing is there with and without the optical plugged in.


----------



## JeffMac

Bit the bullet, pulled the trigger. I snagged one of these bad boys from biglawhk on ebay. My cheap-a$$ed soul just could no longer pass up such a bargain!

 Now...the waiting. And more reading through the thread about op-amp rolling. Once I hear what it sounds like stock and burned in, I'd like to see just how detailed a presentation I can extract from this thing.

 EDITED TO ADD (By the way -- thanks, Tinseljim, for the no-soldering info. And for answering such an ultranewb question about it!)


----------



## coredump

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kezzbot* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My zero arrived today and I have two problems. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I have the X-fi notebook but i cannot find any digital out settings in Creative console launcher or Creative audio console to enable digital out, some of the normal tabs are missing that you would find on other x-fi cards._

 


 The digital out would be selected from your windows sound management and not the creative console. You may be able to right click on the volume control to bring up the menu. Otherwise go to the control panel then sounds then select playback device.


----------



## Tb311

Is ebay the only place to get this or is there a direct source?


----------



## Almoxil

You can buy directly from Lawrence. Send an email to lawrencechanbig@msn.com .


----------



## djembeplay

I unpacked my Zero just now... It's literally broken in two pieces!

 Heh, na, just kidding... everything looks great. I'm just wondering... I'm using a power conditioner and I have the option of plugging this into a normal audio filter or a 'high-current' amp audio filter... what do you guys think I should do?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djembeplay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I unpacked my Zero just now... It's literally broken in two pieces!

 Heh, na, just kidding... everything looks great. I'm just wondering... I'm using a power conditioner and I have the option of plugging this into a normal audio filter or a 'high-current' amp audio filter... what do you guys think I should do?_

 






Heart Failure
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 As long as it is plugged into the same outlet as your source, things should be great!


----------



## djembeplay

Lol, I suppose sorry wouldn't quite cut it for causing a heart failure.

 I actually don't have the Zero plugged into the same outlet as my source, which is my computer. Will this be a problem?

 Edit-

 Another question- Is there directionality to a toslink cable? My sound card is recognizing the signal as a digital input instead of an output...


----------



## tru\head

I'm new here, after some browsing I am thinking of getting this amp and using just with my computer for itunes and gaming, but just one question:

 Does it make any difference what type of chip is outputting to SPDIF? Such as on board spdif vs. a PCI soundcard? My only choice at the moment is using the built-in realtek ALC889A on-board chip spdif-out to an external dac+amp such as the well-acclaimed Zero here.

 I understand it just passes the compressed digital audio to the DAC so it won't affect sound at all right? 

 I am also considering getting some better phones such as beyer dt770-250. I listen to hip-hop and although my SR-80s are great for any string-based instrument they seem lackluster for bass or beat heavy music, if anyone has a suggestion regarding headphones in that category with $250 or less price range i would appreciate it.

 Thanks for any feedback on either of those topics


----------



## djembeplay

Wow... ok, this thing DOES sound nice...

 I've only used it for a couple hours now, but it already sounds alot better than what I was using (the headphone out on my old receiver). I'm using it with K701s and there's three things I'm noticing... Bass is more full, the highs are much less harsh, and the soundstage wiiiddde giving me a really airy sound.

 At first, there was a bit of a buzzing audible when no music or quiet songs were on. This seems to be mellowing out quite a bit already, actually...

 One thing I am a bit concerned about is the clicking that happens when the unit is first fed a signal and when it looses a signal... I'm not sure if this is just my sound-card or if this happens to everyone, but it clicks on/off everytime I start/stop playing a song... is this normal or is something awry here?


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tru\head* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm new here, after some browsing I am thinking of getting this amp and using just with my computer for itunes and gaming, but just one question:

 Does it make any difference what type of chip is outputting to SPDIF? Such as on board spdif vs. a PCI soundcard? My only choice at the moment is using the built-in realtek ALC889A on-board chip spdif-out to an external dac+amp such as the well-acclaimed Zero here.

 I understand it just passes the compressed digital audio to the DAC so it won't affect sound at all right? 

 I am also considering getting some better phones such as beyer dt770-250. I listen to hip-hop and although my SR-80s are great for any string-based instrument they seem lackluster for bass or beat heavy music, if anyone has a suggestion regarding headphones in that category with $250 or less price range i would appreciate it.

 Thanks for any feedback on either of those topics 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You will have to try it for yourself.

 I have tried to use my onboard optical out, not the same chip as you have. At first, I though it was much more detailed than using the xfi. I was listening to rather low volume. When I raised the volume, I noticed that all this supposed to be detail, instead was distortion. The distortion was constant, but less when I used asio compared to without asio.

 You will have to try for yourself, maybe your motherboard soundcard is better than mine.


----------



## vvanrij

Also search on ebay for: USB to SPDIF, I bought the DIGITALPCLINK for 20bucks, and its really good, beats my Creative Live ext. soundcards digital outs.


----------



## hargow

Hey guys,

 Got a few quick questions:

 1) I'm looking for a dac/amp for a pair of Denon D2000s (25 ohm). I've read that the Zero dac isn't meant for anything under 32 ohm. Do I have to find another dac?

 2) If the Denons should work fine on Zero, I will be running it out of my onboard sound (Sigmatel) on my laptop and into the dac. Normally, whenever I plug my headphones directly into the jack on my laptop I get a horrible distorted hiss in the background. Would this affect the signal going into Zero if I use digital out?

 3) I have this usb/toslink adapter: http://www.firefold.com/images/produ...-mini-adpt.jpg

 All I do is stick the 3.5mm into the jack and hook the toslink cable up from the adapter to the dac right?

 4) If the hissing problem (due to laptop components being so close together/wireless/whatever) is going to degrade the quality of the audio, is getting a usb to spdif cable like this one:

http://www.firefold.com/images/produ...-mini-adpt.jpg

 going to improve the sound since it bypasses the soundcard?


 Thanks guys, much appreciated.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djembeplay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lol, I suppose sorry wouldn't quite cut it for causing a heart failure.

 I actually don't have the Zero plugged into the same outlet as my source, which is my computer. Will this be a problem?

 Edit-

 Another question- Is there directionality to a toslink cable? My sound card is recognizing the signal as a digital input instead of an output..._

 






 Hearts ok now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If there is no added noise having them plugged into separate outlets, then you are good to go. Very faint noise due to in house grounding issues will sometimes show up in this circumstance, but not always.

 The optical bit, well, that is odd. Does your sound card allow you to switch the role of the optical jack? Output or Input? There should be no directionality to the optical connection with the Zero that I know of.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tru\head* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm new here, after some browsing I am thinking of getting this amp and using just with my computer for itunes and gaming, but just one question:

 Does it make any difference what type of chip is outputting to SPDIF? Such as on board spdif vs. a PCI soundcard? My only choice at the moment is using the built-in realtek ALC889A on-board chip spdif-out to an external dac+amp such as the well-acclaimed Zero here.

 I understand it just passes the compressed digital audio to the DAC so it won't affect sound at all right? 

 I am also considering getting some better phones such as beyer dt770-250. I listen to hip-hop and although my SR-80s are great for any string-based instrument they seem lackluster for bass or beat heavy music, if anyone has a suggestion regarding headphones in that category with $250 or less price range i would appreciate it.

 Thanks for any feedback on either of those topics 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I've been trying to "lock down" this SP/DIF subject for a while now. My ASUS notebook has one of those Realtek HD audio chips in it and my desktop has the Creative X-FI Xtreme Music cards with the I/O Drive.

 What is weird to me, is that neither one sounds bad. Both are dynamic and carry forward all the nuances you would expect. However, the X-FI does indeed sound better than the Realtek HD. I would call it "more full sounding" and perhaps "quieter" and "deeper noise floor" than the Realtek HD.

 It is enough of a difference for me to have the X-FI Express card on my shopping list in the near future. The Realtek HD is very susceptible to processor cycles being used (busy) and the data stream being interrupted frequently, if the processor is busy doing other things. The X-FI chip does (almost) all of the processing, so it doesn't exhibit any interruptions at all.

 I did find a setting in Vista, where the sound chip was being monitored and would be put into "idle" to save power. I have changed the setting to stop this monitoring, but haven't had a chance to test the differences yet. If it does make a big difference, I'll post my findings here.


----------



## ascherjim

I don't know whether this question has been asked before (too many postings in this thread to perform a reasonable search), but I'm assuming from looking at photos of the rear of this unit that it would NOT be possible for me to externally connect a signal processor (my BBE Sonic Maximizer) between the DAC and amplifier stages. Could someone please confirm this assumption for me. Thanks.


----------



## Steph86

Is it true you can't use the zero as an amp and DAC at the same time?


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Steph86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it true you can't use the zero as an amp and DAC at the same time?_

 

Not really sure I know what you mean.

 You can use the zero:

 Dac + amp -> headphones
 Dac + amp(while preamp) -> speaker amp
 Dac -> External amp -> headphones
 Dac -> External amp -> speakers

 you can not use "Dac -> speaker amp -> speakers" AND "Dac + amp -> headphones" at the same time.


----------



## ascherjim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not really sure I know what you mean.

 You can use the zero:

 Dac + amp -> headphones
 Dac + amp(while preamp) -> speaker amp
 Dac -> External amp -> headphones
 Dac -> External amp -> speakers

 you can not use "Dac -> speaker amp -> speakers" AND "Dac + amp -> headphones" at the same time._

 

cd player coax out (digital) > dac in (digital) > dac out (analogue) > Sonic Maximizer EQ in (analogue) > Sonic Maximizer out (analogue) > amplifier in (analogue) > amplifier out (analogue) > phones. Does that clarify? Thanks.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ascherjim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_cd player coax out (digital) > dac in (digital) > dac out (analogue) > Sonic Maximizer EQ in (analogue) > Sonic Maximizer out (analogue) > *amplifier in (analogue)* > *amplifier out (analogue)* > phones. Does that clarify? Thanks._

 

If the text in bold refer to the Zero amp, then that can't be done. the Zero does not have an analog input.


----------



## ascherjim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If the text in bold refer to the Zero amp, then that can't be done. the Zero does not have an analog input._

 

Henmyr: Thanks. You've confirmed my assumption. It can't be done. Whew, that saves me (or costs me?) a bit of money. Regards, Jim


----------



## Steph86

So you can have optical in-> DAC->headphone amp->Headphones?


----------



## dantztiludrop

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Steph86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So you can have optical in-> DAC->headphone amp->Headphones?_

 

Most definitely!


----------



## djembeplay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_






 Hearts ok now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If there is no added noise having them plugged into separate outlets, then you are good to go. Very faint noise due to in house grounding issues will sometimes show up in this circumstance, but not always.

 The optical bit, well, that is odd. Does your sound card allow you to switch the role of the optical jack? Output or Input? There should be no directionality to the optical connection with the Zero that I know of._

 

Even though it's just a digital signal coming from my PC it could still have problems?

 You hit the nail on the head... my soundcard had an integrated input/output spdif in one jack. I've actually disabled the input function, but it didn't change anything. I played with settings for hours and it didnt change anything actually. I have an integrated Realtek soundcard.

 The thing is... after I took a while to tweak the settings, it works fine and sounds great... I'm just a bit concerned about my Zero because anytime I stop my music... even if I put it on pause... I hear it 'lock off' the signal. Is this going to damage my Zero in any way?


----------



## Skywatcher

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been trying to "lock down" this SP/DIF subject for a while now. My ASUS notebook has one of those Realtek HD audio chips in it and my desktop has the Creative X-FI Xtreme Music cards with the I/O Drive.

 What is weird to me, is that neither one sounds bad. Both are dynamic and carry forward all the nuances you would expect. However, the X-FI does indeed sound better than the Realtek HD. I would call it "more full sounding" and perhaps "quieter" and "deeper noise floor" than the Realtek HD._

 

I must agree with you there. I tried using the SP/DIF from my PC to my external DAC (not a zero). It sounded very good, no doubt about it. But when I connected a Trends Audio UD10.1 via USB, and used it as a transport, making the conversion from USB to SP/DIF and then connecting the UD10.1 to my DAC, the improvements were noticeable. It was quieter, and more "musical" (whatever that means).
 I can't explain why, but I can clearly hear it. Perhaps the fact that the conversion (although strictly in the digital domain) being done outside of the PC case causes it to be immune to all the interferences inside the PC and that reflects on the final result. When converting digital to analog (and carrying the analog) the PC electromagnetic interferences are well known to degrade the sound. Perhaps the digital is not totally immune to it as well.


----------



## djembeplay

I'm debating whether I should try something other than my motherboard digital outs...

 The thing is, I'm quite satisfied with my mobo digital outs... I'm not sure if I have a different chip than you have in your notebook Pench... I have the Realtek ALC888DD... if that means anything, lol.

 I wonder if power has anything to do with the sound quality... maybe that would explain the difference you hear between your notebook and your desktop. When I built my computer, I made sure to buy a high quality power supply. Typical computers use mediocre supplies which don't supply power that is as consistent or clean as higher-quality ones... from my understanding. I'm not sure how, but lesser-quality power could create some noise in the digital output... Just a theory


----------



## djembeplay

So... I just need to clarify...

 When you guys go from having no sound playing in windows to playing sound (and visa-versa), you don't hear an audible 'click' coming from the Zero?


----------



## tru\head

It seems the major factor that might affect how SPDIF outs render sound is the resampling by the chip codec. If the the board's drivers are resampling the output to a locked 44khz for example that could affect the sound. The realtek ALC889A which is in many intel 965p and later boards allows selectable output options, set by the Azalia HD codec standard:

 Right side of image lists different sampling rates the user can select. Also note that the SPDIF output on the volume control is greyed out, which I believe is a good sign.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djembeplay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So... I just need to clarify...

 When you guys go from having no sound playing in windows to playing sound (and visa-versa), you don't hear an audible 'click' coming from the Zero?_

 

with Xfi as transport, I only hear one click when I start my computer and one when I turn it off.


----------



## Ogglethorpe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djembeplay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So... I just need to clarify...

 When you guys go from having no sound playing in windows to playing sound (and visa-versa), you don't hear an audible 'click' coming from the Zero?_

 

Hi, I received my Zero w/ALPS Pot mod yesterday and only had a short time to set it up and listen to a few tracks. I'm running XP -> WinAmp -> ASIO4ALL -> PCLINK USB->OPTICAL -> ZERO -> HD280Pro's.

 I too noticed hearing a strange click coming from the Zero a few times (not through my headphones - from the Zero itself). I didn't have any time to play around with my configuration or figure out what it could be though - I just remember that it didn't sound like a "good" or "normal" sound. I can't remember if I was doing something to cause it either but I don't think so. I'll investigate more tonight.

 A big thanks to Penchum and everyone else on this thread - I wouldn't have this baby without your countless hours of dedication! Cheers!


----------



## windrider

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_with Xfi as transport, I only hear one click when I start my computer and one when I turn it off._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djembeplay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So... I just need to clarify...

 When you guys go from having no sound playing in windows to playing sound (and visa-versa), you don't hear an audible 'click' coming from the Zero?_

 

I have this same problem! sometimes i hear clicks coming from the zero when i go from having no sound playing to some sound playing. even if its just a small sound like the alert sound of msn. I thought it was normal all along but now it seems that this might not be the case?


----------



## Skywatcher

Like I said, I have a different DAC. But yes, I have the 'clicks' whenever sound starts/stops as well. It's the DAC being activated whenever it starts receiving a digital signal. This happens to me with the Trends UD10 (see my last post), because the Trends doesn't send any digital signal to the DAC when there is no sound being played. When I had the DAC connected to the computer directly, my soundcard would put a digital signal present on the SP/DIF out when the computer booted up, and would only cut the signal on computer shutdown, even if there was nothing playing. So the DAC would only click once upon entering windows. 
 At that time the "Digital signal present" LED on the DAC would be always on. Now, with the Trends it lights up only there is sound coming (and it clicks when it lights up).

 I can only assume that the same thing happens with the zero. And the fact of having clicks or not upon sound start/stop has only to do with if your source keeps a constant digital stream (even if of silence) to the DAC or not.


----------



## djembeplay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skywatcher* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Like I said, I have a different DAC. But yes, I have the 'clicks' whenever sound starts/stops as well. It's the DAC being activated whenever it starts receiving a digital signal. This happens to me with the Trends UD10 (see my last post), because the Trends doesn't send any digital signal to the DAC when there is no sound being played. When I had the DAC connected to the computer directly, my soundcard would put a digital signal present on the SP/DIF out when the computer booted up, and would only cut the signal on computer shutdown, even if there was nothing playing. So the DAC would only click once upon entering windows. 
 At that time the "Digital signal present" LED on the DAC would be always on. Now, with the Trends it lights up only there is sound coming (and it clicks when it lights up).

 I can only assume that the same thing happens with the zero. And the fact of having clicks or not upon sound start/stop has only to do with if your source keeps a constant digital stream (even if of silence) to the DAC or not._

 

Ya, that's what I think is happening exactly. I wish there was a way to change it so it would be a constant stream... I've looked and looked and can't find anything.

 I mean, I guess it's not an issue outside of my worry that constantly engaging/disengaging the DAC is going to wear on something...


----------



## vvanrij

Hmm no clicks here.


----------



## djembeplay

Well... I might just pick up a PCI soundcard just to use as a digital out...

 I just want to remind any newcomers that this is an issue with my PC... The Zero in it's self works perfectly.

 There hasn't been much review as to how K701s perform with the Zero. My phones are no where near burned in and my Zero only has about 12 hours on it. Regardless, this setup sound beautiful to my ears. The K701s are really mellowed out and have a huge sense of space.

 My opinion may not be worth much though as this is my first official headphone amp and external DAC. Most of my experience has been in speaker systems. That said, I've listened to some pretty high-end systems, and none of them offered colors as vivid as what I'm experiencing now.


----------



## Ogglethorpe

According to Lawrence the clicks are caused by the relays that engage/disengage when the DAC is turned ON/OFF. It's normal and there for protection.

 I wouldn't mind if the clicking happened everytime I turned on/off my computer but more than that does bother me a little bit.

 Is anybody using the PCLINK without this happening? I would love to hear details about your PC setup so I could try.

 And the Zero is sounding just fantastic so far IMO.


----------



## Penchum

I will hear the click from the Zero, when the desktop or notebook are booting up, but there is a constant signal to the Zero after that, so no additional clicks are heard. On both, I have the digital out specified as the "default" output, but this is in VISTA, not XP. There is a big difference on how audio is handled by the operating system between the two. I wouldn't be surprised if this is part or all of the reason why some are getting a signal out only when playing audio. I have read where the KMixer in Vista is much improved, but I have no idea if this impacts the digital optical out constant signal or not. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Any sound card/operating systems experts have a better grasp of this??


----------



## Henmyr

Those with OPA627AP and BP, can you go to this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/fak...ml#post4242561 

 And then measure pin 1 and pin 5 with a multimeter. This might be a way to see if they are fake or not.


----------



## dealmaster00

Hey guys...so I was thinking of getting a Zero amp. I have a couple of questions though.

 Right now I have a laptop and a creative audigy nx 2 USB sound card (link - Sound Blaster Audigy 2 NX - External Sound Card with 24-bit DVD-Audio, EAX ADVANCED HD and Dolby Digital EX for premium notebook audio ). Would I be able to use this with the Zero (since the nx has an optical out)? Would the nx 2 inhibit the sound at all? Also I'd just be connecting my headphones straight up to the Zero. I guess that means I'd be using the headphone amp and not the pre-amp part but changes in opamps would still affect the sound, correct?

 Lastly my main pair of headphones is ultrasone proline 750...any good recommendations of opamps to use with the above setup?


----------



## Almoxil

Hello, guys. I just received and replaced the opamps in my Zero for a pair of OPA627APs on BrownDog (DAC) and a pair of LME49720 (amp). Now even my not yet burned-in AKG K271S have quite some bass slam! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm pretty happy with this combo, although I already have a pair of OPA627BPs on BrownDog coming (maybe in two weeks).

 I have a question, though: as a free gift from semielectric, I got a LME49860 (single chip). Has anyone used that on the DAC section of the Zero?

 Edit: another question: the same seller from whom I bought the LME49720s is selling OPA637B, stating that they're an improvement on the OPA627s. Has anyone tried listening to the Zero with OPA637s on the DAC section?


----------



## derekv

BAM! Ordered! Thank you all.

 Also ordered Turtle Beach AAM usb

 Upgrading from:
 comp->edirol ua-1a->behringer "euromix" mixer->k701
 and more recently:
 nothing->k701 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 since i didn't want to bring that mixer back to school with me.

 --
 top post


----------



## Almoxil

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *derekv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BAM! Ordered! Thank you all.

 Also ordered Turtle Beach AAM usb

 Upgrading from:
 comp->edirol ua-1a->behringer "euromix" mixer->k701
 and more recently:
 nothing->k701 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 since i didn't want to bring that mixer back to school with me.

 --
 top post_

 

You won't regret it. The Zero is an awersome DAC/amp for its price. And being able to roll opamps is the icing on the cake.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Almoxil* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello, guys. I just received and replaced the opamps in my Zero for a pair of OPA627APs on BrownDog (DAC) and a pair of LME49720 (amp). Now even my not yet burned-in AKG K271S have quite some bass slam! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm pretty happy with this combo, although I already have a pair of OPA627BPs on BrownDog coming (maybe in two weeks).

 I have a question, though: as a free gift from semielectric, I got a LME49860 (single chip). Has anyone used that on the DAC section of the Zero?

 Edit: another question: the same seller from whom I bought the LME49720s is selling OPA637B, stating that they're an improvement on the OPA627s. Has anyone tried listening to the Zero with OPA637s on the DAC section?_

 

From what I've read in this thread the OPA637 will not work in the Zero.


----------



## Almoxil

Thanks, Henmyr.


----------



## Penchum

I posted this in the "Girls gone wild", 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 or was it "627's gone wild" thread, but I wanted to put it here too:

 Ok, I gave into pressure, and got out my trusty meter. Here are the results with info:

 OPA627BP's bought from Tube_Buyer on eBay. #0045WM3805. Notch and no circle dimple thingy. Lettering in two colors like the other photos. Circle on bottom with TAIWAN and L01 in center. Pin 1+5 check, both directions = 53K

 OPA627AU's from Lawrence. I can only read the model number, they are so small. One on top and one underneath the adapter. Pin 1+5 check, both directions = 52K

 So, I have two "good" sources with these. Like I posted here earlier, I can't tell the difference between the BP's and AU's, now I know why. 

 If someone could check Tube_Buyers other numbered BP's, then we would know if his current batch is good. Lawrence has more AU's already on an adapter ready to go.


----------



## coredump

I also got 50 - 60k readings from the APs I bought from Digikey and the BPs I got from tube_buyer. However I think the APs sound better because they have more sepration and clarity. I also thought my BPs sounded worse that the 2604 while the APs sound better. 

 My APs look more like your BPs than my BPs do.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coredump* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I also got 50 - 60k readings from the APs I bought from Digikey and the BPs I got from tube_buyer. However I think the APs sound better because they have more sepration and clarity. I also thought my BPs sounded worse that the 2604 while the APs sound better. 

 My APs look more like your BPs than my BPs do._

 

My BP's look just like your BP's. Two colors, notch and no circle, different number though. If they check good, then that is good info.

 There are some people who like the AP better than the BP. I read a bunch about it, before I ordered my BP's. It seems like it came down to a personal taste issue in the end. At least you know your BP's are good, so you could sell them to one of the folks here.


----------



## Tb311

I know the Zero is an DAC+Amp but if I use the line out on the back does that come from the amp or direct from the DAC?


----------



## purplesun

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tb311* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know the Zero is an DAC+Amp but if I use the line out on the back does that come from the amp or direct from the DAC?_

 

Line out is from the DAC, I believe. As I have the headphone amp board disconnected (less heat & sounds better to me) and the line output works just fine.


----------



## vvanrij

You can do both, if you don't have the phone/pre-amp light lit, it is directly from the amp (so volume knob has no use), if you press the phone/pre-amp button and the light is lit, it uses the amp, and you can use the volume knob.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tb311* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know the Zero is an DAC+Amp but if I use the line out on the back does that come from the amp or direct from the DAC?_

 

Just to clarify. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The DAC output is the RCA's on the back. This would be a normal fixed DAC output to a separate amp. But the Zero, has a pre-amp option you can use if you want.

 If no headphones are plugged into the Zero, you can press the phones/pre-amp button to "on" and the green light comes on, which routes the DAC output through the headphone board and back to the RCA's. It is now a variable output, so you can use the Zero's volume knob to increase or decrease the output going to a separate amp. 

 This is nice if you have a separate amp that has no input adjustment (like the amp section of an integrated amp) or if the amp is furthest away from you and you want to control the volume from the Zero, which is closest to you. I have also used this pre-amp (variable output) to drive portable amps, that work better with less output than the fixed output of the Zero's DAC.


----------



## Snicewicz

Well I am receiving a Meier HA-1 soon and I am wondering if it will benefit to use the Zero as a pre-amp then when connected with the HA-1. 

 The HA-1 WIll be better than the amp in the zero correct?


----------



## Scottyyy

Quick question: does the Zero come with a digital cable? 

 If not, would any cheap optical or coaxial cable off eBay work fine?

 Thanks


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Scottyyy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Quick question: does the Zero come with a digital cable? 

 If not, would any cheap optical or coaxial cable off eBay work fine?

 Thanks_

 

Yes, it comes with a 1M Optical cable.


----------



## vvanrij

It comes with an optical cable.

 edit: Ah penchum you beat me to it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, thank you very much for answering my questions in the pm!


----------



## Scottyyy

Nice, thanks guys.


----------



## Almoxil

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My BP's look just like your BP's. Two colors, notch and no circle, different number though. If they check good, then that is good info.

 There are some people who like the AP better than the BP. I read a bunch about it, before I ordered my BP's. It seems like it came down to a personal taste issue in the end. At least you know your BP's are good, so you could sell them to one of the folks here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Don't know whether the APs I got from Lawrence will sound better than the BPs I ordered from tube_buyer (they'll take 2 weeks to arrive), but the APs are a step up from the default OPA2604 for sure: bass got more impact, while mids and highs gained some more clarity (I also replaced the NE5532s on the amp section for LME49720s I got from semielectric).

 About the bass, consider that I'm listening to music through AKG K271S, which are known for being bass lean. These opamps brought them to life...


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Almoxil* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't know whether the APs I got from Lawrence will sound better than the BPs I ordered from tube_buyer (they'll take 2 weeks to arrive), but the APs are a step up from the default OPA2604 for sure: bass got more impact, while mids and highs gained some more clarity (I also replaced the NE5532s on the amp section for LME49720s I got from semielectric).

 About the bass, consider that I'm listening to music through AKG K271S, which are known for being bass lean. These opamps brought them to life... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That's great! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think you are right too. The AP may sound better to some folks, especially if their headphones are a different model than most. It will be interesting to find out which you like better with your headphones.


----------



## Almoxil

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's great! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think you are right too. The AP may sound better to some folks, especially if their headphones are a different model than most. It will be interesting to find out which you like better with your headphones. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'll pick some of my CDs, do some listening through my other HPs with this opamp setup and post my findings.

 Thanks, Penchum, for letting us know about this little jewel.


----------



## ccschua

I am using ZERO as the preamp to my tubeamp. my speaker uses metal tweeter which is bright. Recently I change the opamp back to stock which is OPA2604. However I still find that mid is not so sweet and warm.

 can you recommend the opamp to be used for DAC.


----------



## coredump

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My BP's look just like your BP's. Two colors, notch and no circle, different number though. If they check good, then that is good info.

 There are some people who like the AP better than the BP. I read a bunch about it, before I ordered my BP's. It seems like it came down to a personal taste issue in the end. At least you know your BP's are good, so you could sell them to one of the folks here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I though this was a picture of your BPs. It's hard to make out but but there is no white lettering and there is a circle.


----------



## Paul Clark

I can't read this thread fast enough to catch up to this end. I spent the entire evening last night starting at post #1. This morning I finished up to page #80 and the pages increased by 40 more overnight! So, pardon my post here now.

 I am looking for a good headphone amp to drive a pair of Grado 325i's (32ohm). My source for SACD transport will be the Oppo DV-980H.

 I have essentially made up my mind to order a Zero but wish to ask for opinions for OpAmp rolls, if any, with an eye for my Grado's and musical taste.
 An OpAmp that would gracefully compliment the Grado without adding any sibilance. Perhaps giving a bit more bottom, albeit controlled, would be nice.

 I mainly enjoy Jazz-Rock Fusion (Return to Forever, Al DiMeola, Jean-Luc Ponty, Jeff Beck, Miles...), straight up Jazz, some classic rock (Led Zep, etc...) and occasionally classical symphonic. Knowing that the Grado's can be a bit bright, esspecially on certain CD's, I wish to aviod choosing an OpAmp which would enhance this brightness. 

 Bottom line question for Zero/Grado owners - what OpAmp do you like and which music do you like it with?


----------



## windrider

if you are sensitive to highs like me, lt1364+lt1469 is a good one, sounds great with sr60s but just a hint of mask/dryness/graininess in the mids with dt880s.

 opa627+lt1469 might be worth looking into too.


----------



## vvanrij

It sounds pretty good with 627+1364, mst people like to tame the 325i's a bit with a tube amp though. But be carefull, the Zero is NOT a SACD convertor, you cannot experience SACD with a zero! If you want to have SACD, you should connect your SACD player with analog cables (red+white) to a dedicated amp, the zero cannot do that!


----------



## Scottyyy

I've just purchased my Zero. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 From here for $111.

 All I need now is a sound card to use as a transport.


----------



## Paul Clark

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It sounds pretty good with 627+1364, mst people like to tame the 325i's a bit with a tube amp though._

 

I have no experience with tubes and just have no pressing desire. But I agree that slight "taming" in the 325i highs without lose of any detail would be benifitial to my ears. Hence my OpAmp quiry. How does the 627+1364 perform in this regard?

 To quote a previous post, _"HDAM unit. No contest. Huge improvement over the stock opamp. The best way to describe (so far) the HDAM is the best qualities of SS mixed with the best qualities of tubes."_

 I seem to have missed the specifics about the HDAM. What is it and what are your thoughts considering the Grado 325i?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But be carefull, the Zero is NOT a SACD convertor, you cannot experience SACD with a zero! If you want to have SACD, you should connect your SACD player with analog cables (red+white) to a dedicated amp, the zero cannot do that!_

 

I need the Zero as a headphone amp only. Are you saying I can not output the digital STEREO (not 5.1 MCh) from a SACD disk player to the Zero's digital input for headphone use? (Forgive my naivette as I am new to SACD)


----------



## vvanrij

Exactly, the only inputs the zero has are digital (optical + coax), so that will not give you 5.1 or SACD.


----------



## Paul Clark

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Exactly, the only inputs the zero has are digital (optical + coax), so that will not give you 5.1 or SACD._

 

Please help this SACD noob out here. This is critical. After further reading of the Oppo DV-980H manual it seems there is no way to output a Digital stereo SACD signal. Stereo is only available from the analog out? Is this true of most, if not all SACD players?

 In other words, I definately need a Dolby Digital or DTS decoder (receiver/amp) that will downmix or convert the Digital SACD Output of the Oppo into analog stereo (headphone/speaker) signal? - The Zero DAC/Amp is NOT what I need? - I need a Dolby-DTS receiver/amp?!

 Many thanks!


----------



## tinseljim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Paul Clark* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Please help this SACD noob out here. This is critical. After further reading of the Oppo DV-980H manual it seems there is no way to output a Digital stereo SACD signal. Stereo is only available from the analog out? Is this true of most, if not all SACD players?

 In other words, I definately need a Dolby Digital or DTS decoder (receiver/amp) that will downmix or convert the Digital SACD Output of the Oppo into analog stereo (headphone/speaker) signal? - The Zero DAC/Amp is NOT what I need? - I need a Dolby-DTS receiver/amp?!

 Many thanks!_

 

I don't know if this helps but I can definitely play SACD tracks, that I have downloaded off of the Linn website, on the Zero. Has anyone actually tried playing directly from an SACD player's optical out?

 Also I have the Grado SR325s with the Zero and have just about settled on the 627 in the DAC and 1364s in the head-amp. Need to do one more comparison with the 4562 now that they are burned in fully.

 James

 p.s. I tried on some GS1000s today!


----------



## Paul Clark

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tinseljim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't know if this helps but I can definitely play SACD tracks, that I have downloaded off of the Linn website, on the Zero. Has anyone actually tried playing directly from an SACD player's optical out?_

 

Apparently NOT! I have just learned from my thread at SA-CD.net that due to Sony copy protection 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 SACD Digital out is Dolby and/or DTS encoded which the Zero or any other headphone amp CAN NOT decode. I need to go through a Dolby/DTS receiver and use the analog outs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 to a head-amp, sigh.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tinseljim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Also I have the Grado SR325s with the Zero and have just about settled on the 627 in the DAC and 1364s in the head-amp._

 

What kinds of music do you listen to with the Zero?

 From Goodcans.com: "...a recording engineer preferred the [Grado 325] "diamond like clarity and cut"...' - Indeed!


----------



## tinseljim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Paul Clark* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Apparently NOT! I have just learned from my thread at SA-CD.net that due to Sony copy protection 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 SACD Digital out is Dolby and/or DTS encoded which the Zero or any other headphone amp CAN NOT decode. I need to go through a Dolby/DTS receiver and use the analog outs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 to a head-amp, sigh.



 What kinds of music do you listen to with the Zero?

 From Goodcans.com: "...a recording engineer preferred the [Grado 325] "diamond like clarity and cut"...' - Indeed!_

 

Sorry to hear that about the SACD. As far as music I listen to everything except for country and western. Just can't get used to it. But yeah I listen to everything from the "Divine Liturgy of Saint John Chrysostom (King's College Choir)" to Miles Davis, Innocence Mission, King's X, Sting, Bjork, Sigur Ros etc. 

 I believe that the 325s are THE headphone for King's X. A lot of guitar which the Grados are known for. I was just listening to "Looking for Love (off of Ear Candy)" by them and I have never heard that song sound so good! The guitar has real bite, and the bass is slamming. 

 They are a tad bright (especially with the bowls) but that can be tamed somewhat with the OpAmps. Not sure if I've found headphone nirvana yet...
 James


----------



## vvanrij

Its very logicly that SACD can't be played on the zero, as its not a SACD decoder. What you need to experience 5.1, is a receiver with 5.1 analog inputs, and connect that to your sacd player. I have yet to encounter a 5.1 headphone. I do use my SACD player, but just with normal cd's and connected it digitally to my zero.


----------



## SilverFang

Just got with the program and bought the Zero from Mr.Lawhk@eBay. Just some quick questions:
 I have Xtrememusic and HD600 - will this cable work between them? 
*"S/PDIF, RCA - 3,5mm minijack, 1m - 75 ohm, coaxial cable."*





 Since I need to use the coax out from the x-fi this would work, right? This way I figure I won`t have to bridge the cables with coax-monojack-adapters..

 Could this unit also work between my receiver and my floor-speakers?(large 2x200W)

 I`m really looking forward to seeing if this will make a change in my headset. I`ve been quite disappointed in my HD600s, and often I prefer to use one of my other senns. instead. So I`ve always felt that there`s been "something" missing. Hope this is it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now I have to play the waiting-game untill my package arrives.


----------



## DoubleEs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Scottyyy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've just purchased my Zero. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 From here for $111._

 

Ditto


----------



## vvanrij

I'm not quite sure what that cable is, all you need between the x-fi and your zero is a COAX or (included!) optical cable. This is not an amp, its a DAC/Headphone-amp/Pre-amp, to make this work on your speakers (large 2x200W), you will need to connect your zero (with tullip cables) to your speaker receiver/amplifier. And I'm not sure if the Zero is going to change your mind on the HD600's. Some say it needs a really good amp to shine, others don't like it at all, and some like it from just about any source. You're gonna have to listen to it yourself 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 good luck!


----------



## SilverFang

Thanks for quick response!

 It`s a coax-cable with one 3.5mm jack and one coax-rca plug. My X-Fi only has jack-output coax so I have to have a jack, but it has to be mono if I`m correct?..

 Hehe, my choice was between the C&C Box+ or this one, and I thought "why not". Seems like most people are very happy with it, and if my X-fi card doesnt do the trick, I am sure I will make good use of it later(when I decide to upgrade my stereo) Digital signals is the future right? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 How long will it take before it arrives, anyone know? I live in Norway.


----------



## vvanrij

mono?? The zero has just 2 options like I mentioned before, optical in or coax in. And there is a huge difference between a digital signal and a analog signal, its not that they can be compared. The idea is to get a good quality DAC to convert the digital signal to a usable analog signal. For me it took about 2 weeks to arrive, I live in The Netherlands, so it should be about the same.


----------



## Paul Clark

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Its very logicly that SACD can't be played on the zero, as its not a SACD decoder. What you need to experience 5.1, is a receiver with 5.1 analog inputs, and connect that to your sacd player. I have yet to encounter a 5.1 headphone. I do use my SACD player, but just with normal cd's and connected it digitally to my zero._

 

My intention was to listen to the SACD "Stereo" programming on my cans.

 As I understand the physical makeup of a SACD, nearly all of them include a completely seperate Stereo SACD track in addition to the SACD 5.1 surround track. And if it is a Hybrid SACD the disk has another seperate physical layer for the RBCD programming. (What a deal!)

_"Whether music is delivered via 2 channels or via 5.1 channels, the same audio quality is present. This is accomplished using DSD. The coding system used on a SACD is called DST. The Direct Stream Transfer system. For a SACD existing of a single HD layer means that it contains (or can contain): 

 * 2-Channel Stereo: A full range DSD, separate studio-mixed, 2 channel mix. 

 * Multi-Channel: A full range Direct Stream Digital (100kHz, 2.822mHz) 6 channel mix. 

 "Many early SA-CDs released were stereo only. Nowadays most SA-CDs released are stereo plus multichannel. The SA-CD format does not support 'down-mixing'. When an SA-CD contains stereo and multichannel sound, these are stored separately on the disc."

 "...the audio... of an SA-CD is always DSD or DST..."_

 [ The above was derived from: SA-CD.net - FAQ ]

_"SACD audio is stored in a format called Direct Stream Digital (DSD), which differs from the conventional PCM used by the compact disc or conventional computer audio systems."

 "SACD uses a 1-bit delta-sigma modulation process known as Direct Stream Digital at the very high sampling rate of 2.8224 MHz to encode its audio data. (This is 64 times the sampling rate used in Compact Disc Digital Audio.)"

 "To reduce the space and bandwidth requirements of DSD (2.8 Mbit/s per channel), a lossless data compression method called Direct Stream Transfer (DST) is used — DST compression is compulsory for multi-channel regions and optional for stereo regions. This typically compresses by a factor of between two and three, allowing a disc to contain 80 minutes of both 2-channel and 5.1-channel sound."

 "DST is the standard lossless compression method for Super Audio CD content."

 "SACD players are not permitted to digitally output an UNencrypted stream of DSD. *There are now two standard digital connection methods capable of carrying DSD in encrypted form: i.Link and HDMI *(version 1.2 or later, standardised in August 2005)."_

 [ The above was derived from: Wikipedia ]

 In my mind it was not intuitive to me that I could not simply configure my SACD player to read the Stereo SACD track and output that through an "ordinary"(?) Digital out to the Zero. Apparently, and perhaps you can try it, you still need a DSD/DST decoding receiver to get at the Stereo SACD programming.

 This begs the question; What is the digital format that the Zero converts to analog?
 Answer: Pulse-code modulation (PCM) Pulse-code modulation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 So with that, perhaps, I must appologize to the readers of this Zero thread for posting off topic.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SilverFang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for quick response!

 It`s a coax-cable with one 3.5mm jack and one coax-rca plug. My X-Fi only has jack-output coax so I have to have a jack, but it has to be mono if I`m correct?..

 Hehe, my choice was between the C&C Box+ or this one, and I thought "why not". Seems like most people are very happy with it, and if my X-fi card doesnt do the trick, I am sure I will make good use of it later(when I decide to upgrade my stereo) Digital signals is the future right? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 How long will it take before it arrives, anyone know? I live in Norway._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_mono?? The zero has just 2 options like I mentioned before, optical in or coax in. And there is a huge difference between a digital signal and a analog signal, its not that they can be compared. The idea is to get a good quality DAC to convert the digital signal to a usable analog signal. For me it took about 2 weeks to arrive, I live in The Netherlands, so it should be about the same._

 

Yes. If you are using the X-Fi's flexi-jack output (coaxial), the 3.5mm end will be mono. It's just passing a digital signal, not analog stereo. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Long live analog! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hehehe!


----------



## Scottyyy

I have another question if you guys don't mind.

 What's the best way around using my computers onboard digital output? I have about $40-50 to spend, just to use as a transport. Would a cheap sound card be good enough for this? For my budget I could probably only get a cheap Soundblaster. It would still be an upgrade over onboard motherboard digital though right?


----------



## vvanrij

I searched on ebay for 'usb to spdif' and you get a bunch of cheap stuff from honk kong. I bought one of them (the little black box thingy of 20bucks) and it works great.

 I'm abit confused about the digital mono thing, I have never heard of it, I thought digital doesn't have a stereo or mono stream, just the whole information which later can be converted to analog. 

 To experience anything special from SACD and not let it play like a normal CD, you have to connect your SACD player with analog connectors to an amp. Whether it is 5.1 or 2.0, only a SACD player can decode it. If you would connect it digitally to a Zero (see my sig), your SACD and player will just act like a normal CD and normal player.


----------



## Scottyyy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I searched on ebay for 'usb to spdif' and you get a bunch of cheap stuff from honk kong. I bought one of them (the little black box thingy of 20bucks) and it works great.

 I'm abit confused about the digital mono thing, I have never heard of it, I thought digital doesn't have a stereo or mono stream, just the whole information which later can be converted to analog. 

 To experience anything special from SACD and not let it play like a normal CD, you have to connect your SACD player with analog connectors to an amp. Whether it is 5.1 or 2.0, only a SACD player can decode it. If you would connect it digitally to a Zero (see my sig), your SACD and player will just act like a normal CD and normal player._

 

Are they better quality than a motherboards onboard digital?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm abit confused about the digital mono thing, I have never heard of it, I thought digital doesn't have a stereo or mono stream, just the whole information which later can be converted to analog. _

 

Ow, bad choice of words on my part. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The cable end is just a single pole (mono) 3.5mm on one end and coaxial RCA on the other. The Flexi-Jack on the X-Fi's needs this mono based 3.5mm end, to make the "single" contact inside the jack.

 Before I got a decent coaxial, I was using a beefy RCA with a mono to RCA adapter from Radio Shack, to get by with.


----------



## Paul Clark

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To experience anything special from SACD and not let it play like a normal CD, you have to connect your SACD player with analog connectors to an amp. Whether it is 5.1 or 2.0, only a SACD player can decode it. If you would connect it digitally to a Zero (see my sig), your SACD and player will just act like a normal CD and normal player._

 

Let me explain my understanding (which is not much).

 Certain SACD players with HDMI 1.2 or above (Oppo DV-980H) can "Digitally Stream" the SACD MCh5.1 content (SACD [not refering to RBCD] Stereo content also???) to certain HDMI 1.2 or above capable receiver/amp. SA-CD.net - FAQ

 Of course we all know that the HDMI is "_copy protection_"


----------



## vvanrij

The zero does not have does decoders, and thus cannot do that. It also doesn't have RCA inputs. So for SACD the zero is useless.


----------



## Paul Clark

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The zero does not have does decoders, and thus cannot do that. It also doesn't have RCA inputs. So for SACD the zero is useless._

 

Yes, that is what I have learned since my initial SACD>headphone question. But the answer was certainly NOT derived intuitively 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but after much reading, as usual.

 Thank you.


----------



## katanka

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Scottyyy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have another question if you guys don't mind.

 What's the best way around using my computers onboard digital output? I have about $40-50 to spend, just to use as a transport. Would a cheap sound card be good enough for this? For my budget I could probably only get a cheap Soundblaster. It would still be an upgrade over onboard motherboard digital though right?_

 

Try this 

PCLINK USB-SPDIF FOR AUDIO 24BIT , UDA1321 / CS8405A - eBay (item 330237304588 end time May-25-08 08:06:10 PDT)


----------



## oldson

sorry if this has been asked before, but is there any benefit to be had from upgrading the optical cable?


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sorry if this has been asked before, but is there any benefit to be had from upgrading the optical cable?_

 

Apparently yes. I just ordered a glass cable to replace the plastic one. I've read the difference is quite audible. Unfortunately, I've heard overinflated claims before, but the theory sounds good enough. Glass transmits the light signal better than plastic, and when used gives just as good or better quality as coaxial. For $20 I'll give it a whirl.
 This is what I ordered:
3 Ft. 3' Glass Toslink Digital Audio Cable


----------



## oldson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Apparently yes. I just ordered a glass cable to replace the plastic one. I've read the difference is quite audible. Unfortunately, I've heard overinflated claims before, but the theory sounds good enough. Glass transmits the light signal better than plastic, and when used gives just as good or better quality as coaxial. For $20 I'll give it a whirl.
 This is what I ordered:
3 Ft. 3' Glass Toslink Digital Audio Cable_

 

$15, that seems cheap!
 i got one of these:
VIVANCO SHQ TT12 << UK >> AVLAND Vivanco SHQ TT-12 Toslink to Toslink Optical Cable Cable
 its in a sealed pack, cost me £30.
 i bought it without researching. i was thinking of taking it back if the difference is not going to be that much over the standard cable.
 if i open it i am then stuck with it!
 cheers


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_$15, that seems cheap!_

 

Well, I read that as long as it's glass, and the ends are polished and terminated decently, the budget ones are indistinguishable from very costly ones, but still far better than plastic.
 Just what I read though.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Apparently yes. I just ordered a glass cable to replace the plastic one. I've read the difference is quite audible. Unfortunately, I've heard overinflated claims before, but the theory sounds good enough. Glass transmits the light signal better than plastic, and when used gives just as good or better quality as coaxial. For $20 I'll give it a whirl.
 This is what I ordered:
3 Ft. 3' Glass Toslink Digital Audio Cable_

 

I have the same "brand/Type" as you, and they are wonderful. They were recommended to me by another member, who's opinion I value greatly. The price is nice too.


----------



## edguetzow

Ok, I got conviced.

 I just ordered a 6 ft glass optical from that site. $19 + $7 shipping. I am currently using a Radio Shack brand plastic cable - $5 clearance sale price. I look forward to a comparison test!

 Thanks again, guys and, especially Penchum (!), for keeping this thread interesting, alive and a great source of knowledge.


----------



## oldson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have the same "brand/Type" as you, and they are wonderful. They were recommended to me by another member, who's opinion I value greatly. The price is nice too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

wish i had known about this b4 i bought the "vivanco".
 if i can get a refund this week i will order one of these( if they ship to uk?)
 are there any other alternatives of glass leads for similar price?
 thanks

 btw i would also like to buy one of the HP impedence adapters mentioned earlier in this or ldmk5 thread, but cant find the details!
 all i remember is they were about 120 ohm, and looked like they were in metal casing (not plastic) if anyone can point me in the right direction i would be grateful.


----------



## [S]uds

Would there be any real difference if I was running my Zero via Optical out of a dedicated sound card(X-Fi ExtremeGamer) vs my mobo's onboard sound(680i)? I'll be ordering one of the Glass Toslink Digital Audio Cables, but I'm curious if I see any real difference from one sound card to another(especially considering the dedicated sound card isn't that good). Thanks.


----------



## Currawong

Test it and see.


----------



## vvanrij

Somebody told me once that the soundcard affects the sound, even if you make a connection to its digitally out's. I have never heard this myself.


----------



## Scottyyy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *uds* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would there be any real difference if I was running my Zero via Optical out of a dedicated sound card(X-Fi ExtremeGamer) vs my mobo's onboard sound(680i)? I'll be ordering one of the Glass Toslink Digital Audio Cables, but I'm curious if I see any real difference from one sound card to another(especially considering the dedicated sound card isn't that good). Thanks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_




I'm wondering the same thing dude. If you could test it and see if there is any difference it would be much appreciated.


----------



## davve

Hello!

 Why is'nt LT1028 working in the dac? the volume is very quiet and when i turn on the volume knob i hear disorted sound? 

 they are CN8#PBF


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello!

 Why is'nt LT1028 working in the dac? the volume is very quiet and when i turn on the volume knob i hear disorted sound? 

 they are CN8#PBF_

 

The LT1028 is a single opamp. You must have two of them on an adapter just like the OPA627. I measured it's dac out and found nearly 1 V dc offset (it's offset right?), something which I don't think is too good, so I don't think they are very good to use. Someone correct me on this though.


----------



## Almoxil

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coredump* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I also got 50 - 60k readings from the APs I bought from Digikey and the BPs I got from tube_buyer. However I think the APs sound better because they have more sepration and clarity. I also thought my BPs sounded worse that the 2604 while the APs sound better. 

 My APs look more like your BPs than my BPs do._

 

Just received my OPA627BPs, and they look exactly like yours. Same 2-color printing, same numbering (0036WM8420). The notch is there as well, and there's no little circle thingy. I will wait for another BrownDog adapter before trying them though, because I don't want to mess with my APs and risk breaking or benting their legs. After all, I'm enjoying them a lot.


----------



## oldson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have the same "brand/Type" as you, and they are wonderful. They were recommended to me by another member, who's opinion I value greatly. The price is nice too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 anyone know where to get this (or similar) cable in uk?
 cheers


----------



## coredump

I've been giving my AD843s a run though on the Zero. Overall I think they are a very good chip and they're half the price of the OPA627. They don't have as much detail or sound stage as the 627s but that's not altogether a bad thing. Sometimes the detail of the 627 just pops out at me too much and can be a bit fatiguing. I'm not sure which one I'll use full time yet. Here is a another review of the two.

  Quote:


 When I went into this test, I was hoping to find a chip to dethrone the OPA627 which is expensive and requires a lot of voltage. The 627 also has the characteristically mellow Burr-Brown sound, which is not always a good thing. Analog Devices chips tend to be a little snappier and more aggressive, which can help balance some systems. I wanted a chip that would fit all of these criteria while still maintaining the OPA627's incredible level of resolution and clarity. The AD843 doesn't completely fit these criteria, but it does come close.

 What this chip gets right: First, the AD843 is definitely cheaper. Like the 627, the cheaper grade is fine for audio, so a pair of 843s is about half the cost of a pair of 627s. Second, this chip does have that Analog snap and verve.

 The downside is that the AD843 requires more voltage than the OPA627. And like the 627, the sound gets very nasty very quickly when it starts clipping.


 The AD843 seems to trade smoothness for resolution relative to the OPA627. In some cases the more detailed OPA627 might be preferrable, and in others the smoother AD843 could be helpful. I'm torn on what to make of this real difference. The OPA627 isn't hyper-revealing, and the AD843 isn't over-smooth. The OPA627's detail seems genuine; it isn't grain or overemphasized real detail. I don't mind the way the AD843 ignores these details, but at the same time I don't resent the OPA627 for presenting them. The OPA627 can be accurate to a fault, if your recording has unpleasant detail in it that another op-amp would ignore or deemphasize. If you have flawed recordings, you may prefer the pleasant lie told by the AD843. 
 

Notes on Audio Op-Amps


----------



## djembeplay

I figured out the clicking "engage / disengage" thing...

 Based on what Pench was saying, I deleted my sound drivers and restarted, allowing windows to install it's generic drivers (I'm on Vista).

 Now it doesn't click when I start/stop sounds...

 I'm just a bit concerned that I'm not getting what I can from my audio without specific drivers... not sure if this applies to digital signals though.

 Also, I still hear a very slight background buzz. I'm probobly at about 15 hours of burn-in. Did others experience this and did it go away? I have the ALPS volume pot upgrade.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Hi guys and girls 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm having loads of fun tube rolling,burning in stuff, trying to blow the wax outa my ears 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Here is a more detailed impression of the HDAM module as it stands at 125hrs +.
 I'm having trouble finding the words since this thing seems to give no color at all with regards to a starting point. As I said before the HDAM is so far beyond the stock opamp (BB2604) in every respect you care to name it's tough to know where to start with no reference point other than the 2604. I haven't received the OPA627's and adapter yet, so I will attempt to quantify what this module is doing in the Zero.

 I better start with signal chain and source then tube combo in MKIII to give reference of base sound. JVC-XV-FA92 DVDA via coax + foobar 2000(EAC flac files)/Auzen Prelude 7.1(bit perfect) via Toslink, ---> Zero/HDAM--->MKIII with Mullard CV4015 (thanks E !!!)drivers and pair of 6N6PI's ----> stock HD650's (soon to change with DIY cable of my own design).

 The best way to describe what the HDAM does is by explaining what it doesn't do, if that makes sense 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I notice zero(pardon the pun) coloration from the module, what you feed it via coax or toslink is what comes out. It doesn't accentuate or roll off anything in the audible frequency range (at least to my ears 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ). There is no bloom,glare,hash,and a complete lack of digititis even from poor recordings from the early days of digital (I was an early adopter,1982 to be exact so I have some truly horrid discs from 82-84 to test).

 Here is what the HDAM does do and this hasn't been easy to nail down because everything sounds so good through it. Bass is solid, gut punch transients are rendered with , and here we go with that pun again, zero overhang. Nada, zilch. Bass extension goes as low as your phones and source can deliver without emphasis of any kind. What goes in comes out, no added opamp (of any kind) signature. The mids have a smooOOOOooooth relaxed texture that at the same time can present detail, nuance, sound staging from a whisper to a scream without strain of any kind. Transient speed in amazing, hall echoes, lips drawing in breath,wooden sticks hitting skins,rim shots all rendered with correct weight,true to life timbre, space and air. Impressive to say the least when you consider the Zero with HDAM is 255.00 US including shipping. I digress...
 Highs...hmmm.......now this is the absolute hardest quality to get right IMHO when it comes to digital vs LP. By nature a 16/44 signal should not have the level of SQ that LP or RtoR tape has in the top end (Pench will attest to that I'm sure ). That being said the HDAM renders highs with an amazing degree of sophistication. Is it as good as a TT with a decent MC cartridge ? No, not quite, but its as close as I've ever come yet to hearing cymbals,high hats,triangles etc portrayed realistically. If one word comes to mind it's this....pleasant, with no nasty spikes, no spitty S's, sibilants are nowhere to be found unless a part of the recording (in that case it's shame on the rec engineer, lots of tools to tame that with). I can't seem to find anything I don't like about the HDAM. I don't mind the fact that it requires the cover off to use. Looks cool to me. I think a nice smoked acrylic top like the Keces DA131 would look uber cool on the Zero 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That's another topic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 In conclusion of the HDAM mini review I'd like to talk about atmosphere, sound stage portrayal and the like. This module manages to balance the previously talked about qualities with dead on imaging, voices/instruments decay with natural quality that is "right". The vocals are presented with a 3D quality with plenty of air, neither to forward or recessed (depending on the recording once again). Nothing seems to phase this module whether it's the immediate and delicate presence of a string quartet or the full blown complexity of a symphony at full blast. Either is presented as recorded, truthfully, without additions or subtractions in the audio spectrum. Aggressive music,multi tracked metal, pop, synth, dance,trance,rap makes no difference, all are equally handled with aplomb with regards to all the qualities mentioned in the review. I'm impressed with the Zero/hdam combo's abilities to say the least. The signal to noise ratio is impressive, silence....no hiss.....at all. Female and Male voices sound wonderful....a difficult trick for any piece of gear to get right. Seldom are both done "right" in the same box (and at 80 bucks for the module ? are you kidding me ? unbelievable) Uh oh I've descended into hyperbole 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I haven't talked about the Zero specifically although it should be noted that I consider the above review the overall sound of the unit when used with the HDAM/Zero combination. The review concerns itself with the DAC/analog output section only.

 I think I like this module 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well that's it for now. I hope this mini evaluation answers some of the questions about the HDAM module. 

 Seems I didn't have all that much trouble finding the words after all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Regards to all,

 Peete.


----------



## globalghost

For anyone who has replaced their cable with a glass cable, how much better is the sound? (Can you notice it?)


----------



## vvanrij

Hmm, I seem to have a problem. My Zero is making a hiss sound, on the right channel. I tried all kinds of things, different connection, isolating the problem, and its definetly te Zero who is making the hiss, out of its right channel, no matter what source (coax/optical etc.). Does anybody else have this problem (plus turn your volume up high, thats the only time I hear it), anybody knows what it is and how to stop it?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm, I seem to have a problem. My Zero is making a hiss sound, on the right channel. I tried all kinds of things, different connection, isolating the problem, and its definetly te Zero who is making the hiss, out of its right channel, no matter what source (coax/optical etc.). Does anybody else have this problem (plus turn your volume up high, thats the only time I hear it), anybody knows what it is and how to stop it?_

 

Yes, I know how to stop it. Don't do that any more. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








 Seriously, almost every SS amp with no music playing or load on it, will make some kind of hiss when turned up max. Some don't, because they go into a "mute" mode if a signal isn't present at the amp. If you get this hiss in the audible range when listening, then it's time to diagnose and fix. Until then, you should have nothing to worry about because it doesn't effect levels you use during listening. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Here's a true and funny story for you:

 It's sorta like when the Doctor told my stepson and his wife, right after having their first child, "You can't get pregnant so soon after birth. You must take some time first." They went home and played "hide the salami" every night and she was pregnant in less than two weeks! When they went back to the Doctor, he said, "Why did you do this when I told you not too?" My stepson's wife answered, "You said "we can't get pregnant so soon after birth", so we thought "Great! No pills needed!"


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djembeplay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I figured out the clicking "engage / disengage" thing...

 Based on what Pench was saying, I deleted my sound drivers and restarted, allowing windows to install it's generic drivers (I'm on Vista).

 Now it doesn't click when I start/stop sounds...

 I'm just a bit concerned that I'm not getting what I can from my audio without specific drivers... not sure if this applies to digital signals though.

 Also, I still hear a very slight background buzz. I'm probobly at about 15 hours of burn-in. Did others experience this and did it go away? I have the ALPS volume pot upgrade._

 

I'd go ahead and download the latest drivers and follow the install. Chances are they had a couple of "Vista" versions before and this might have been the problem. Going from Vista's built-in to the latest driver set, might be a good thing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If not, you can always un-install, back to the Vista defaults. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Burn-in eliminates some odd things and improves on others, so I'd press on and evaluate after it is done. Enjoy!


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coredump* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been giving my AD843s a run though on the Zero. Overall I think they are a very good chip and they're half the price of the OPA627. They don't have as much detail or sound stage as the 627s but that's not altogether a bad thing. Sometimes the detail of the 627 just pops out at me too much and can be a bit fatiguing. I'm not sure which one I'll use full time yet. Here is a another review of the two.



Notes on Audio Op-Amps_

 

I was using OPA627 happily until I decided to go back to basic stock opamp which is OP2604, with emphasis on mid and low sound signature. i notice the relax atmosphere of OP2604 but the mid high is abit harsh. U can hear the female Ss, high pitch end of delivery. I find it difficult to tame this. Can this AD843 help, or any other chips.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *globalghost* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For anyone who has replaced their cable with a glass cable, how much better is the sound? (Can you notice it?)_

 

I'm not sure anyone is going to jump in and say they sound better. I'm sure you already know there are two die hard camps on this issue, and both believe they are right. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can tell you what I have observed. The first thing I did, was look at the light intensity differences between standard and glass. There was no doubt, the glass was brighter by a nice sized margin. Second, was to look at the cables build quality. The glass was better built and had an overall stronger look and feel to it. I'm sure these observations are very common and over time, might represent money well spent, if you treat them well.

 Your application of optical cables might make a difference too. I have a 6 foot glass, going from my X-Fi to one Zero. I never unplug it, so it just stays there doing it's thing. My other Zero, is located across the room and down the wall some, so I had to get a standard optical cable to meet the length criteria (30ft). I never unplug it either, so it fits behind wall units and furniture with ease, was very affordable, and doesn't cause any trouble. 

 If I had a need for one where I was unplugging it all the time, I'd look for the best one I could find, with a superior connector on it. Many of these will be glass. The eBay Glass cables could fill this kind of role easily, and help keep costs down a bit. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hope this helps some!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was using OPA627 happily until I decided to go back to basic stock opamp which is OP2604, with emphasis on mid and low sound signature. i notice the relax atmosphere of OP2604 but the mid high is abit harsh. U can hear the female Ss, high pitch end of delivery. I find it difficult to tame this. Can this AD843 help, or any other chips._

 

Is this using the Zero's built-in headphone amp? What Opamps do you have in the headphone amp? Can't you go back to your OPA627's?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys and girls 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think I like this module 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well that's it for now. I hope this mini evaluation answers some of the questions about the HDAM module. 

 Seems I didn't have all that much trouble finding the words after all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Regards to all,

 Peete._

 

Excellent review PP! It almost sounded like you were talking about the MKV, driven by the Zero! That would be a fun comparison!


----------



## vvanrij

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, I know how to stop it. Don't do that any more. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Seriously, almost every SS amp with no music playing or load on it, will make some kind of hiss when turned up max. Some don't, because they go into a "mute" mode if a signal isn't present at the amp. If you get this hiss in the audible range when listening, then it's time to diagnose and fix. Until then, you should have nothing to worry about because it doesn't effect levels you use during listening. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Here's a true and funny story for you:

 It's sorta like when the Doctor told my stepson and his wife, right after having their first child, "You can't get pregnant so soon after birth. You must take some time first." They went home and played "hide the salami" every night and she was pregnant in less than two weeks! When they went back to the Doctor, he said, "Why did you do this when I told you not too?" My stepson's wife answered, "You said "we can't get pregnant so soon after birth", so we thought "Great! No pills needed!" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








_

 


 Thats indeed a funny story 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. The problem is, that when I use my 325i, which are very sensitive headphones, its already audible at MKIVse volume setting 25/100. I do have to say that 30/100 is the absolute max volume on my MKIV I use when I have my grado's connected. So I'm not using phono/preamp function on the zero, just have it connected to my LD, and its also rather odd that its only one channel.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thats indeed a funny story 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. The problem is, that when I use my 325i, which are very sensitive headphones, its already audible at MKIVse volume setting 25/100. I do have to say that 30/100 is the absolute max volume on my MKIV I use when I have my grado's connected. So I'm not using phono/preamp function on the zero, just have it connected to my LD, and its also rather odd that its only one channel._

 

Ow, ok. That changes things a bit. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Lower your gain settings on the MKIVse. This should make a big difference.


----------



## coredump

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was using OPA627 happily until I decided to go back to basic stock opamp which is OP2604, with emphasis on mid and low sound signature. i notice the relax atmosphere of OP2604 but the mid high is abit harsh. U can hear the female Ss, high pitch end of delivery. I find it difficult to tame this. Can this AD843 help, or any other chips._

 

So you don't like the mid high on the 2604? Hmm. I'm not sure if the AD843 will help much. Unfortunately I fried my 2604 so I can't compare them. I'm guessing the OPA627 must have sounded pretty harsh to you. What headphones are you using?


----------



## djembeplay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd go ahead and download the latest drivers and follow the install. Chances are they had a couple of "Vista" versions before and this might have been the problem. Going from Vista's built-in to the latest driver set, might be a good thing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If not, you can always un-install, back to the Vista defaults. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Burn-in eliminates some odd things and improves on others, so I'd press on and evaluate after it is done. Enjoy! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ya that's what I thought too... but I uninstalled/installed the newest specific drivers a couple times and the engage/disengage of the relay was persistent.

 I have been e-mailing lawrence about it. He said these is probobly a relay in the optical / coax inputs that shut off when there is no signal present to protect them. I just asked him if this is bad for the Zero when it happens every time any little sound starts/stops on the computer...

 So does anyone remember if they had a slight buzz with the volume around 10 that went away with burn-in?

 The odd thing is... it seemed much less last thursday after some burn-in, one day after receiving the unit. Then I went on a camping trip and just returned last night... and now the buzz seems stronger again...??? I hope its a burn-in thing.

 Edit: I also have another question. When I touch any of the controls on the front (input selector, power, volume) the buzzin increases quite a bit. Do others experience this?


----------



## coredump

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *globalghost* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For anyone who has replaced their cable with a glass cable, how much better is the sound? (Can you notice it?)_

 


 Last night I connected both the toslink and coaxial to the zero and bounced back and forth between the two by selecting the input on the zero. (nice option by the way) I couldn't tell a lick of difference between the two.

 I know that doesn't answer you question but I wanted to mention it. 

 Another thing I noticed is that if the end of optical cable gets dirty it can cause some jitter with the signal.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Excellent review PP! It almost sounded like you were talking about the MKV, driven by the Zero! That would be a fun comparison! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks Pench !!!

 Interesting observation with regards to the MK V (thats pretty darn good company methinks). I think our ears hear alike, if that makes sense 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Does the MK V use opamps ? If it does I wonder what these (HDAM) modules would do for it ? 

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djembeplay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ya that's what I thought too... but I uninstalled/installed the newest specific drivers a couple times and the engage/disengage of the relay was persistent.

 I have been e-mailing lawrence about it. He said these is probobly a relay in the optical / coax inputs that shut off when there is no signal present to protect them. I just asked him if this is bad for the Zero when it happens every time any little sound starts/stops on the computer...

 So does anyone remember if they had a slight buzz with the volume around 10 that went away with burn-in?

 The odd thing is... it seemed much less last thursday after some burn-in, one day after receiving the unit. Then I went on a camping trip and just returned last night... and now the buzz seems stronger again...??? I hope its a burn-in thing.

 Edit: I also have another question. When I touch any of the controls on the front (input selector, power, volume) the buzzin increases quite a bit. Do others experience this?_

 

You might have a ground loop, or poor earthing on that particular outlet. Try to keep all components on same well grounded circuit. You could try a cheater plug on the Zero to see if it's the cause. Another possible cause could be a bad volume pot and/or cold solder joint.

 Test your outlet (of choice) first with circuit tester, if it's good your half way there. Hope this helps a little.

 Peete

 PS I managed to induce hum and noise in one channel by locating the toslink near power sources (dc adapters for wireless router,keyboard etc ) an got rid of it by carefully routing the toslink cable away from all that. If the cable has to cross anything make sure it's at right angles. Make sure it's well away from any wall warts.


----------



## djembeplay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You might have a ground loop, or poor earthing on that particular outlet. Try to keep all components on same well grounded circuit. You could try a cheater plug on the Zero to see if it's the cause. Another possible cause could be a bad volume pot and/or cold solder joint.

 Test your outlet (of choice) first with circuit tester, if it's good your half way there. Hope this helps a little.

 Peete_

 

Thanks for the response. The only circuit testers I have are the ones built into my surge protectors / power conditioner. All of their indicators for 'ground OK' light up... so I suppose thats a good sign... but I'm not sure if this is a sufficient circuit tester.

 When you say keep all components on the same circuit, you don't also mean the same outlet, do you? I have everything on the same circuit, but they are divided between two different outlets...

 The buzzing I am hearing increases when I touch any of the metal controls on the front panel... is this normal?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djembeplay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the response. The only circuit testers I have are the ones built into my surge protectors / power conditioner. All of their indicators for 'ground OK' light up... so I suppose thats a good sign... but I'm not sure if this is a sufficient circuit tester.

 When you say keep all components on the same circuit, you don't also mean the same outlet, do you? I have everything on the same circuit, but they are divided between two different outlets...

 The buzzing I am hearing increases when I touch any of the metal controls on the front panel... is this normal?_

 

Not really. Seems like a bad ground on the pot, or fuxored pot, don't know which. Your power conditioner has a good circuit tester so thats ok. Do you have a cheater plug you can use on the Zero (just for testing, not permanent use) ? Have you emailed Lawrence yet to ask what he thinks of the situation ?



 Peete.


----------



## djembeplay

I haven't e-mailed him about this one yet... I suppose I will now.

 I'm not sure what a cheater plug is actually... so I'm guessing I don't have one, lol.

 If your Zero is on and your using the headphone amp with your volume at 9 or 10 and you have no music playing, do you hear a buzz and crackle when you touch the front panel controls?


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *globalghost* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For anyone who has replaced their cable with a glass cable, how much better is the sound? (Can you notice it?)_

 

I just got mine here: Glass Toslink Digital Optical Cable

 I can second what Pench said - the light transmission is immediately noticeable as much higher than a couple plastic cables I have. I have to think this can't be anything but good as far as reducing data transmission loss and error.

 As far as sound? At this point I believe I can hear just a slight improvement to discernibility in the highs. I'd also say the highs are just a bit less grainy. This is completely subjective though, and the true difference if any is small. For $20 though, it was well worth it to me.

 Pench, your ears are better than mine, have you done any comparison of glass to plastic?


----------



## coredump

The plastic core is wider than the glass core so the light isn't as dense. 

 Safety tip of the day: Staring into the glass fiber can be harmful to your eyes. 


 I don't understand how one fiber cable can sound better than another. Isn't it just one and zeros coming across in flash patterns? As long as the signal makes it to the other end it shouldn't mater how it got there. Of course I've never tested it so I don't know for sure.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djembeplay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So does anyone remember if they had a slight buzz with the volume around 10 that went away with burn-in?

 Then I went on a camping trip and just returned last night... and now the buzz seems stronger again...??? I hope its a burn-in thing.

 Edit: I also have another question. When I touch any of the controls on the front (input selector, power, volume) the buzzin increases quite a bit. Do others experience this?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djembeplay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When you say keep all components on the same circuit, you don't also mean the same outlet, do you? I have everything on the same circuit, but they are divided between two different outlets...

 The buzzing I am hearing increases when I touch any of the metal controls on the front panel... is this normal?_

 

With what you posted above, the first thing that comes to mind is a ground loop issue. The house internal kind, where you are on the same circuit, but not the same outlet. Try everything on the same outlet, to rule this out or find it's the problem. 

 Here is a good read on the issue: Ground loop problems and how to get rid of them


----------



## djembeplay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With what you posted above, the first thing that comes to mind is a ground loop issue. The house internal kind, where you are on the same circuit, but not the same outlet. Try everything on the same outlet, to rule this out or find it's the problem. 

 Here is a good read on the issue: Ground loop problems and how to get rid of them_

 

Thanks for the link. I was searching around earlier and actually came across another post you made in another thread where you had posted that link. I read through the entire article and a few other ones after that... I'm still trying to figure this out.

 I have unplugged everything in my house except my refrigerator. I moved the plug of my power conditioner (where the Zero is plugged into) to the same outlet as the surge protector that my computer is plugged into. I plugged the Zero into my surge protector instead of my power conditioner. I wiggled all cords while listening to phones through the Zero. I completely disconnected my coax cable line.

 None of this made one bit of difference to this buzzing...

 This combined with the fact that the buzzing crackles and increases by 2-3x when I touch the Zero makes me think it's the unit it's self... I mean, it's especially loud when I touch the buttons on front, but it even magnifies when I touch any part of the chassis!

 I listen to alot of experimental downtempo / ambience. This often is very delicate, soft music using alot of silence. Having sound come from a black background is VERY important to me.

 Idk... I might be moving on to greener pastures here pretty soon...


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coredump* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The plastic core is wider than the glass core so the light isn't as dense. 

 Safety tip of the day: Staring into the glass fiber can be harmful to your eyes. 

 I don't understand how one fiber cable can sound better than another. Isn't it just one and zeros coming across in flash patterns? As long as the signal makes it to the other end it shouldn't mater how it got there. Of course I've never tested it so I don't know for sure._

 

A plastic (regular) optical cable is made from one flexible strand. The Glass optical we are talking about has a 280 strands to add flexibility and to make up approximately the same end surface area or slightly less (varies by brand). The ends of both types of cables are highly polished, but the glass wins here due to it's ability to be extremely highly polished. (Think optical lens quality polishing) Glass is also a more "pure" medium for transmitting light.

 No safety tip: The red light you see is a red LED light, not a laser light, like in a CD player laser light. It doesn't carry the same precautions as a CD player laser light.

 The folks that believe they hear an improvement, say that there are far fewer errors in transmission, so the end result is a cleaner and more accurate representation of the original music source.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djembeplay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the link. I was searching around earlier and actually came across another post you made in another thread where you had posted that link. I read through the entire article and a few other ones after that... I'm still trying to figure this out.

 I have unplugged everything in my house except my refrigerator. I moved the plug of my power conditioner (where the Zero is plugged into) to the same outlet as the surge protector that my computer is plugged into. I plugged the Zero into my surge protector instead of my power conditioner. I wiggled all cords while listening to phones through the Zero. I completely disconnected my coax cable line.

 None of this made one bit of difference to this buzzing...

 This combined with the fact that the buzzing crackles and increases by 2-3x when I touch the Zero makes me think it's the unit it's self... I mean, it's especially loud when I touch the buttons on front, but it even magnifies when I touch any part of the chassis!

 I listen to alot of experimental downtempo / ambience. This often is very delicate, soft music using alot of silence. Having sound come from a black background is VERY important to me.

 Idk... I might be moving on to greener pastures here pretty soon..._

 

Sounds like a good try on finding the problem. You should email Lawrence and tell him what is up (or maybe you did this already), I've read to many posts. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 That front panel thing bothers me.


----------



## djembeplay

I know it... bothers me too. Well, thanks for the help anyways.


----------



## coredump

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 No safety tip: The red light you see is a red LED light, not a laser light, like in a CD player laser light. It doesn't carry the same precautions as a CD player laser light.
_

 

Ah yes. I suppose your right with the Zero. Network fiber which uses infrared laser is bad to look at.


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A plastic (regular) The Glass optical we are talking about has a 280 strands to add flexibility and to make up approximately the same end surface area or slightly less (varies by brand)._

 

Definitely true. I busted out a magnifying glass and could see that it was stranded rather than a solid strand when light was shining through it. Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The folks that believe they hear an improvement, say that there are far fewer errors in transmission, so the end result is a cleaner and more accurate representation of the original music source._

 

I think there is something to be said here as well... Yes it's digital, but if some of that information never makes it to the DAC, or makes it out of time or erroneously, it is going to translate into sound which isn't faithful. Just my two cents.


----------



## fishkill62

Hello, Chris from Australia here, a newbie to your forum, which I reckon is great. Your info is much appreciated.

 I have my Zero on the way from Lawrence who is fitting the QPA627'S on the DAC prior to sending. He is unable however to source LT1364's for the head amp section.
 Can anyone please advise where I can source these from. I will then fit when the unit arrives...
 Thanks Chris...


----------



## djembeplay

Can maybe a few people try touching the front of their Zero when no sound is playing through it to see if there is an increased buzz / crackle?

 I just want to confirm that this isn't a common occurance...


----------



## vvanrij

Nothing happens when I touch the front.


----------



## tinseljim

Nor me


----------



## purplesun

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djembeplay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can maybe a few people try touching the front of their Zero when no sound is playing through it to see if there is an increased buzz / crackle?
 I just want to confirm that this isn't a common occurance..._

 

Have you tried disconnecting the earth wire in the power plug used for the Zero DAC as a quick test? If the noise goes away, it would indicate a grounding issue. However, I would suggest not to leave the earth wire disconnected as a permanent solution for safety reasons.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coredump* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So you don't like the mid high on the 2604? Hmm. I'm not sure if the AD843 will help much. Unfortunately I fried my 2604 so I can't compare them. I'm guessing the OPA627 must have sounded pretty harsh to you. What headphones are you using?_

 

OPA627 is harsh, but very dynamic. I am using ZERO preamp to my tube amp to drive the B&W 602 S3 bookshelf. the B&W uses metal dome tweeter which sounds bright. the 2604 gives very clear and warm vocal, but still bright. will these help in the DAC section like 1469 or 1364 or DY2000


----------



## Jazz9

Is this dac/amp really better than something like the d2 boa?
 I'm wondering what to buy (they cost roughly the same), but if the sound of the zero isn't that much better then I'd rather go with the d2 for its portability (i'd use it at home but it being tiny doesn't hurt).


----------



## coredump

Ah speakers. I know very little but would it just be easier to adjust the equalizer to compensate for the tweeters? The DAC swapping doesn't seem to be as noticeable with my speakers as it is with headphones.


----------



## tinseljim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jazz9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is this dac/amp really better than something like the d2 boa?
 I'm wondering what to buy (they cost roughly the same), but if the sound of the zero isn't that much better then I'd rather go with the d2 for its portability (i'd use it at home but it being tiny doesn't hurt)._

 

Sorry haven't heard it. But some have said they prefer it to the highly regarded apogee duet.

 James


----------



## djembeplay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nothing happens when I touch the front._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tinseljim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nor me_

 


 Hey guys,

 Thanks for checking that for me.

 I asked Lawrence yesterday and he said it's a bad solder in the grounding of the volume pot. So, yay, I don't have a ground loop. The thing is, he wants me to re-solder it, but I don't have any soldering skills. Here is a re-cap of the conversation:

 ***
 "Lawrence: Please have a look at the attached pic.
 Please try to re-solder the grounding of the volume.

 Me: Hmm... I don't see any pic attatched...
 I actually have no solder experience nor do I have any soldering equipment or materials. I think I may actually need to send it all the way back unfortunately...
 Have you run into this issue before?

 Lawrence: Please have a look at the attached pic.
 Buy a 50W solder gun and do it. Search soldering skill in Google and you can solve this problem ."
 ***

 Does this seem a bit weird to anyone else? Maybe I'm a bit edgy today, but... I really don't want to go out, buy a solder gun and solder, then research how to solder, then finally solder this thing that I just bought and arrived broken... It feels like I bought a brand new car and it arrived with a broken window which I'm expected to fix.

 Am I out of line here?

 EDIT: Maybe he's just trying to help me out as this would be quicker than sending the unit back... Still don't want to do it though


----------



## vvanrij

Hmm its either weird, or miscommunication. But yeah it seems strange to me when I read it like that


----------



## djembeplay

Ya... I feel burned sort of.

 I don't know whether to try sending it back or solder it or just sell it and try buying another one...


----------



## Citizen86

Either way you've paid shipping $40, it'll still probably be at least $40 back... so what is cheaper, buying a cheap solder gun and pluncking down some solder to fix it or spending all that money on shipping it back? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sorry, not trying to sound like a jerk, but I doubt lawrence is trying to be either, but shipping it back will be costly for you AND him. If you don't want to solder then yeah, maybe you can sell it for a little less than what you bought it for to someone who can solder it.

 Not the ideal situation, but at least it just needs a quick resolder and isn't DOA


----------



## djembeplay

Ya thats true...

 Tricky situation...

 I mean, I think I could sell it and just buy another one for less time and money than buying a soldering iron and doing it would be...

 Maybe not though... who will want to buy a DAC that needs to be soldered...


----------



## oldson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djembeplay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can maybe a few people try touching the front of their Zero when no sound is playing through it to see if there is an increased buzz / crackle?

 I just want to confirm that this isn't a common occurance..._

 


 mine seems fine, got all my gear on conditioner, but even without i hear nothing!
 cheers


----------



## oldson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djembeplay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ya thats true...

 Tricky situation...

 I mean, I think I could sell it and just buy another one for less time and money than buying a soldering iron and doing it would be...

 Maybe not though... who will want to buy a DAC that needs to be soldered..._

 

do you live near any tv repair shops, it would literally be less than two minutes work, if you showed them which are the poor joints!
 i think this is where Lawrence is coming from!!
 cheers


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djembeplay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ya... I feel burned sort of.

 I don't know whether to try sending it back or solder it or just sell it and try buying another one..._

 

If Lawrence is talking about the volume pot connections to the headphone board, this would be VERY easy to fix. Most of the time, you can fix it by simply heating up the soldering joint and letting it cool again. The TV repair shop idea is a good one too, or a friend who knows how to solder would be cheaper.


----------



## Ogglethorpe

Hmmmmm... My Zero was delivered with the old volume pot in the box.. And I noticed that a pad had come off with it!!! I didn't think much of it at the time as I assumed it was probably an NC (No connect)... It is very obvious so I don't think Lawrence would have missed it... I should check the part myself to make sure - can anyone tell me the exact part # so I could look up the datasheet? 

 BUT, I have been trying to diagnose a background hiss I am hearing that gets amplified as I turn the volume up on the Zero. I've been thinking the problem was related to my PC setup (drivers or whatever).

 But perhaps it could be related to the missing pad - (basically same effect as a cold solder Dj)

 Luckily I do have solder skills - just haven't had the time to open the Zero, check and try different things out - like all these opamps I've had for the past 2 months! And hopefully the trace is accessible or I am going to be mad!

 If I'm hearing background hiss with my setup that shouldn't be caused by my PC setup should it? Since it is going through optical (PCLINK)? Would appreciate some advice - I'm new to all this! Thanks!

 WinXP -> FLAC -> Asio4ALL -> PCLINK -> Zero -> HD280Pros.


----------



## djembeplay

Maybe I'll just try that.

 I don't mean I feel like I got burned as if Lawrence intentionally gave me a sour deal... It's just one of those feelings like you just bought a new bike and it came with a huge dent in it... Oh well.

 So you guys don't think I'll even need new solder? I will just need to heat the old stuff up again and let it melt?

 Also, another thing I was thinking is... there was alot of crackling and buzzing going on. One time my right channel was crackling really loud without even touching the zero and without a signal going to it...

 I guess I'm thinking... what are the chances that by using it for about 30 hours like this something else was damaged in the unit...?


----------



## djembeplay

I have another question...

 As a result of this, I was ready just to ditch the Zero and pick up a Keces 131 DAC. Does anyone have an idea of how a Zero with OPA627BPs would compare to a Keces as a DAC?


----------



## djembeplay

I figured I would post the pic Lawrence sent me to show you guys where the solder needs to happen apparently:


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ogglethorpe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmmmmm... My Zero was delivered with the old volume pot in the box.. And I noticed that a pad had come off with it!!! I didn't think much of it at the time as I assumed it was probably an NC (No connect)... It is very obvious so I don't think Lawrence would have missed it... I should check the part myself to make sure - can anyone tell me the exact part # so I could look up the datasheet? 

 BUT, I have been trying to diagnose a background hiss I am hearing that gets amplified as I turn the volume up on the Zero. I've been thinking the problem was related to my PC setup (drivers or whatever).

 But perhaps it could be related to the missing pad - (basically same effect as a cold solder Dj)

 Luckily I do have solder skills - just haven't had the time to open the Zero, check and try different things out - like all these opamps I've had for the past 2 months! And hopefully the trace is accessible or I am going to be mad!

 If I'm hearing background hiss with my setup that shouldn't be caused by my PC setup should it? Since it is going through optical (PCLINK)? Would appreciate some advice - I'm new to all this! Thanks!

 WinXP -> FLAC -> Asio4ALL -> PCLINK -> Zero -> HD280Pros._

 

A pad? Please explain.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djembeplay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I figured I would post the pic Lawrence sent me to show you guys where the solder needs to happen apparently:




_

 

There is a very small diameter wire, running from the board to the side (or top) of the volume pot, which has been soldered there. You could simply re-solder that thin wire to that "glob" on top and check the other end to make sure it is making contact properly on the board.


----------



## djembeplay

Alright, I'll check it out.

 Is it possible I damaged or degraded something with all the crackling and buzzing in the meantime?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djembeplay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Alright, I'll check it out.

 Is it possible I damaged or degraded something with all the crackling and buzzing in the meantime?_

 

I don't think so. You may find that whole "blob" just sitting there, not making much contact.


----------



## djembeplay

I dont know... I've got a weird feeling about it all...

 I don't mean to sound insulting towards Lawrence, but doesn't it seem like the simplest thing to just turn the Zero on and check your work after you solder something? I mean, can't you even see if it looks not quite right after you solder it?


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djembeplay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I dont know... I've got a weird feeling about it all...

 I don't mean to sound insulting towards Lawrence, but doesn't it seem like the simplest thing to just turn the Zero on and check your work after you solder something? I mean, can't you even see if it looks not quite right after you solder it?_

 

Cold or cracked solder joints happen all the time, it's not a big deal, if that's what the problem is. 
 Fixing it is even a smaller matter.

 If you don't want to mess with it, see if Lawrence will reimburse you to have an electronics repairman look at it.

 If you really don't want to mess with it, I'll give you $40 for it. I'll take the risk, because if it is a faulty solder point, I'll have it fixed in 30 seconds.


----------



## Currawong

Speaking of soldering and volume pots, does anyone have a link to an online-order-able replacement volume pot for the ZERO? I saw an eBay link to an ALPS pot, but it's too big for the space.


----------



## Ogglethorpe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A pad? Please explain. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

A pad is a solderable area on the circuit board for placement of an electronic component - resistor, cap, pot, etc. The pins on the component go through the throughholes on the circuit board, and circular pads. The solder is applied to the pins and the pads making the connection. The pad connects to the trace to go wherever the signal needs to go. 

 Whoever replaced my pot didn't remove enough solder, so upon yanking the pot out a pad came with it! That's typically a very bad thing when replacing components as it may be very difficult (or next to impossible) to get at the trace for that pin to reconnect it if necessary.

 I just checked my Zero and it looks like this was addressed as I can see that particular pin reconnected to where it should go. Good!

 I also listened to a CD I have (REM Out of Time) on a separate system - just CD player digital out to an old Pioneer receiver I have and still heard the same hiss/static through my headphones SO

 Could my headphones be the issue here? They're only HD280pros. Unfortunately I have nothing else to compare with at the moment. Of course the hiss is only audible when there is very little sound in the recording. Or perhaps the hiss/static is perfectly reasonable?

 Thanks!


----------



## djembeplay

Lol... you think I would only be able to sell it for $40? Man, I guess I better try to fix it then :{

 I actually just bought a 45 watt soldering iron. I guess I'll try it...

 I bought some solder as well because apparently I have to "tin" my solder. I don't really understand why this is necessary... anyone?

 Also, should I use more solder?


----------



## djembeplay

Cold solder joints happen all the time? Really?

 I guess I'm just thinking... wouldn't any craftsman want to check his work to see if everything went well?

 Definitly a different feel than buying something retail...

 Lol, don't mind me... I'm just disgruntled right now. I cant decide whether I want to fix the thing or just sell it.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fishkill62* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello, Chris from Australia here, a newbie to your forum, which I reckon is great. Your info is much appreciated.

 I have my Zero on the way from Lawrence who is fitting the QPA627'S on the DAC prior to sending. He is unable however to source LT1364's for the head amp section.
 Can anyone please advise where I can source these from. I will then fit when the unit arrives...
 Thanks Chris..._

 

Digi-Key ships worldwide. Just input LT1364 in search window at Digi-Key site. Good prices too.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djembeplay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cold solder joints happen all the time? Really?

 I guess I'm just thinking... wouldn't any craftsman want to check his work to see if everything went well?

 Definitly a different feel than buying something retail...

 Lol, don't mind me... I'm just disgruntled right now. I cant decide whether I want to fix the thing or just sell it._

 


 You bet they can. Rough handling in transit can break free borderline joints from the pot casing. Sometimes it's advisable to scratch up the surface on the pot where you want reconnect the ground wire to the pot shell. The scratches help the solder grip the metal better. Sometimes pot casings will have a film or coating of some kind from the manufacturer. When I rewire guitar control bays I always clean the pots back with alcohol wipes to make sure the solder is getting a good surface to mate with. With that 45 watt soldering iron you should be careful how long you have it on the component. Place the soldering iron on the pot first, let it heat for 10 seconds, lay the solder beside the tip on the spot you want solder. When it melts you know the case is hot enough. Get the right amount of solder onto the case quickly. Don't use too much. Just enough to cover the wire nicely. Pull the iron away, let new joint cool. If it's shiny , it's a good joint. Not mirror shiny, slightly shiny is good enough. If it's really dull and any edge looks like its not adhered, than that's most likely a bad or cold solder joint. Cold meaning no electron flow, nothing to do with temp at all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hope this helps a little.

 Peete.


----------



## djembeplay

Wow, thanks alot Peete... I suppose I'll give it a shot.

 So it sounds very likely that Lawrence did indeed test it and it was a good solder, but it just broke loose in transit? This is common? I mean, I suppose it did come half way across the world.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djembeplay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, thanks alot Peete... I suppose I'll give it a shot.

 So it sounds very likely that Lawrence did indeed test it and it was a good solder, but it just broke loose in transit? This is common? I mean, I suppose it did come half way across the world._

 



 Its certainly possible. I've seen stranger things 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djembeplay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, thanks alot Peete... I suppose I'll give it a shot.

 So it sounds very likely that Lawrence did indeed test it and it was a good solder, but it just broke loose in transit? This is common? I mean, I suppose it did come half way across the world._

 


 Practice on some old garbage pots and pcb's to get a feel for the iron and solder process. You'll have it down in no time.

 Peete.


----------



## fishkill62

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Digi-Key ships worldwide. Just input LT1364 in search window at Digi-Key site. Good prices too.

 Peete._

 

Thanks for the advice Peete. Lawrence has told me my Zero will ship next week, can't wait. He is fitting the OPA627AU's in the Dac and I will fitting the LT1364's in the headphone section when it arrives.

 Do you know if this is the best setup for my AKg 701's?

 Thanks Chris.....


----------



## vvanrij

So far its my and a couple of more guys here's favorite.


----------



## tinseljim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So far its my and a couple of more guys here's favorite._

 

Yep after trying quite a few I prefer this as well. 

 James


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fishkill62* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the advice Peete. Lawrence has told me my Zero will ship next week, can't wait. He is fitting the OPA627AU's in the Dac and I will fitting the LT1364's in the headphone section when it arrives.

 Do you know if this is the best setup for my AKg 701's?

 Thanks Chris....._

 

I like this combo with my re-cabled 701's, both listening through my MKV or directly from the ZERO. The combo tends to sound more warm (yet still very detailed) which is better IMO for the analytical 701's.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ogglethorpe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A pad is a solderable area on the circuit board for placement of an electronic component - resistor, cap, pot, etc. The pins on the component go through the throughholes on the circuit board, and circular pads. The solder is applied to the pins and the pads making the connection. The pad connects to the trace to go wherever the signal needs to go. 

 Whoever replaced my pot didn't remove enough solder, so upon yanking the pot out a pad came with it! That's typically a very bad thing when replacing components as it may be very difficult (or next to impossible) to get at the trace for that pin to reconnect it if necessary.

 I just checked my Zero and it looks like this was addressed as I can see that particular pin reconnected to where it should go. Good!

 I also listened to a CD I have (REM Out of Time) on a separate system - just CD player digital out to an old Pioneer receiver I have and still heard the same hiss/static through my headphones SO

 Could my headphones be the issue here? They're only HD280pros. Unfortunately I have nothing else to compare with at the moment. Of course the hiss is only audible when there is very little sound in the recording. Or perhaps the hiss/static is perfectly reasonable?

 Thanks!_

 

Wow, I'm sorry. Got my head up my other end. I do remember what a pad is now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm glad it doesn't seem to be the issue.

 Look on your CD case, and see if it is labeled AAD. If it is, the master tape it was made from had tape hiss, and this was carried forward onto the CD. Not much you can do about that. If you have a CD that is DDD, give it a try and see if the noise is gone.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I do believe the hiss is from your source, which you verified by trying the other system.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So far its my and a couple of more guys here's favorite._

 

It seems like the OPA627's in the DAC and LT1364's in the headphone amp, are a "universal" matching. I like it with Senns, you guys with the AKG's and several others with different phones earlier on. This is cool!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There is nothing as sweet as quality audio at a low price point, that gives universal satisfaction! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Three cheers to all of you for checking it out!! Many others will benefit from this. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Lawrence is the man!


----------



## prospero21

I cant believe it.. My Zero arrived today 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 After spending over 2 weeks at the customs office, it finally came in today.

 I've hooked it up via the supplied optical cable to the front-bay of my x-fi extrememusic and its burning in as we speak.

 Couple of questions tho.. (Ive already checked the x-fi hotrodding topic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) Is there a way to achive _true_ line-out via the optical out ? That means that there is no volume control via windows, just via the Zero ? Ive set "bit-matched" playback, but this only disables the EQ, crystallizer and such. Else I'll just set all my windows volumecontrols to MAX and leave it at that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Im burning it in with the stock opamps, but Ive also received 3x OPA627au's on an adapter. But I'd like to hear the difference when the rest of the DAC is properly burned in.

 Im actually a bit unimpressed by the buildquality, especially the volume-knob. I have an Alps Blue in my DYI Gainclone, so maybe I'll remove that Alps from the gainclone, solder it into the Zero and run the Gainclone as a power-amp via the Zero.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You bet they can. Rough handling in transit can break free borderline joints from the pot casing. Sometimes it's advisable to scratch up the surface on the pot where you want reconnect the ground wire to the pot shell. The scratches help the solder grip the metal better. Sometimes pot casings will have a film or coating of some kind from the manufacturer. When I rewire guitar control bays I always clean the pots back with alcohol wipes to make sure the solder is getting a good surface to mate with. With that 45 watt soldering iron you should be careful how long you have it on the component. Place the soldering iron on the pot first, let it heat for 10 seconds, lay the solder beside the tip on the spot you want solder. When it melts you know the case is hot enough. Get the right amount of solder onto the case quickly. Don't use too much. Just enough to cover the wire nicely. Pull the iron away, let new joint cool. If it's shiny , it's a good joint. Not mirror shiny, slightly shiny is good enough. If it's really dull and any edge looks like its not adhered, than that's most likely a bad or cold solder joint. Cold meaning no electron flow, nothing to do with temp at all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hope this helps a little.

 Peete._

 

Thanks PP, you are absolutely correct! Everyone should realize that the Zero's are bench tested before shipping. Shipping, can be a curse and blessing at the same time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Soldering joints like the one on the side of the pot, are sometimes a problem waiting to happen, after being handled 1/2 way around the world. While my first Zero's was fine, my second one needed to be re-soldered. I could see the solder lifting from one side. Like you said, super easy to fix.

 When I first acquired my Pioneer SG-9800 Graphic Equalizer (used) (one of the best ever made), it induced way too much noise into the signal path. I got it up on my bench, took it apart, and went "OW CRAP!" because all of the solder joints were super dull and problematic. I don't know how many connections "died" during shipping, but it must have been a bunch of them. The seller said he had been using it daily, right up to when he packed it for shipping. It didn't matter really. That solder is 33 years old, so it needs to be "refreshed" big time. Looking at the job ahead of me, each frequency has about 12 two pin components that needed to be re-soldered, so that is 12 freq's per channel X 2 channels, about 288 joints per channel, or 576 for the whole thing. I got after it and two weeks later, I bench tested it and it was silent! No more added noise! I was very happy indeed! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Needless to say, I was "up to speed" on my soldering skills after that!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now it performs like new and only required me to clean the slider switches and replace one status light to finish it's restoration. It was absolutely worth my time and effort.


----------



## windrider

On dt880s, after trying the opa627/lt1469 for sometime, i finally gave up and settled on lt1364/lt1469.

 I really like the sound of opa627/lt1469 more compared to lt1364/lt1469:
 - mids are less dry/recessed
 - quite abit more airiness
 - treble sounds better/more extended treble

 However my they make my ears bleed after just a few songs. Sucks to be sensitive to highs yes i know.

 Anyone has anything to suggest that might be balance between the 2 combinations mentioned above? I would really like something similar to the opa627/lt1469 sound but with warmer/less harsh highs.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *windrider* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On dt880s, after trying the opa627/lt1469 for sometime, i finally gave up and settled on lt1364/lt1469.

 I really like the sound of opa627/lt1469 more compared to lt1364/lt1469:
 - mids are less dry/recessed
 - quite abit more airiness
 - treble sounds better/more extended treble

 However my they make my ears bleed after just a few songs. Sucks to be sensitive to highs yes i know.

 Anyone has anything to suggest that might be balance between the 2 combinations mentioned above? I would really like something similar to the opa627/lt1469 sound but with warmer/less harsh highs._

 

Did you try the LT1361's in the headphone amp, OPA627's in the DAC, combo?
 I think someone earlier on said they liked this combo with the DT880's.


----------



## windrider

the lt1361 sounds very good indeed but its even harsher than the lt1364s on the highs; my ears couldnt take them at all.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *windrider* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the lt1361 sounds very good indeed but its even harsher than the lt1364s on the highs; my ears couldnt take them at all._

 

Ow, ok. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't know if you are at this point or not, but it may be that you need a different headphone for your tastes. Since you have improved your system, it is not unusual for headphone requirements to change. I can vouch for the OPA627's in the DAC, LT1364's in the headphone amp, with HD-650s. They present all the detail and nuances without any harshness at all.

 I'm sure some of the other folks will recommend some Opamps to try, but keep this "requirement change" in the back of your mind. If you have a friend with HD-650s, you could "validate" this idea pretty easy by trying his/her HD-650s in your system. They might surprise you more than you think. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I know it is viewed as "taboo" to change headphone camps around here, but that is just plain silly. Your ears should always dictate what headphones you use. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There is nothing worse than "unhappy" ears. Ya can't enjoy anything that way.


----------



## windrider

Yea actually I do want to change headphones but havent found a buyer for the dt880s yet =( I realized the 2nd hand market is kinda small here in Singapore. I guess i should try to sell internationally as well but the shipping costs would probably make it not worth the money for overseas buyers.

 I didnt like the hd650 with the stock opamps but i realized how much opamps can affect the sound now. Unfortunately i sold them before i got some of the opamp samples so i didnt get a chance to try them out with some combinations. Nevertheless i'm interested in getting a pair of hd600s instead and see how they would sound with the zero.


----------



## djembeplay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks PP, you are absolutely correct! Everyone should realize that the Zero's are bench tested before shipping. Shipping, can be a curse and blessing at the same time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Soldering joints like the one on the side of the pot, are sometimes a problem waiting to happen, after being handled 1/2 way around the world. While my first Zero's was fine, my second one needed to be re-soldered. I could see the solder lifting from one side. Like you said, super easy to fix.

 When I first acquired my Pioneer SG-9800 Graphic Equalizer (used) (one of the best ever made), it induced way too much noise into the signal path. I got it up on my bench, took it apart, and went "OW CRAP!" because all of the solder joints were super dull and problematic. I don't know how many connections "died" during shipping, but it must have been a bunch of them. The seller said he had been using it daily, right up to when he packed it for shipping. It didn't matter really. That solder is 33 years old, so it needs to be "refreshed" big time. Looking at the job ahead of me, each frequency has about 12 two pin components that needed to be re-soldered, so that is 12 freq's per channel X 2 channels, about 288 joints per channel, or 576 for the whole thing. I got after it and two weeks later, I bench tested it and it was silent! No more added noise! I was very happy indeed! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Needless to say, I was "up to speed" on my soldering skills after that!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now it performs like new and only required me to clean the slider switches and replace one status light to finish it's restoration. It was absolutely worth my time and effort. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Wow... 576 solders... that's insanity. You must have been a hot metal god (funny name for a band) at the end of it all.

 Lawrence has been extremely supportive and helpful through all this. He sent me a few more messages this morning detailing more information. He said a disconnected volume ground would do no harm to the DAC but that it would damage the amplifier...

 Now that I think of it, though, I'm not sure if he meant the amp in the Zero or an external amp.


----------



## djembeplay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tinseljim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep after trying quite a few I prefer this as well. 

 James_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So far its my and a couple of more guys here's favorite._

 

Were you guys referring to my question about how this would compare to the Keces 131, or someone/something else?


----------



## fault151

Would anyone be interested in buying my zero dac off me? Only people in the UK though please!

 It has opa 627's on browndogs installed and a few different op amps for the headphone section. I hardly use it (i have 3 dacs) and im moving away so all the case will help. I'll send it asap.

 Anyway if anyones interested PM me.

 Cheers guys!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *windrider* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yea actually I do want to change headphones but havent found a buyer for the dt880s yet =( I realized the 2nd hand market is kinda small here in Singapore. I guess i should try to sell internationally as well but the shipping costs would probably make it not worth the money for overseas buyers.

 I didnt like the hd650 with the stock opamps but i realized how much opamps can affect the sound now. Unfortunately i sold them before i got some of the opamp samples so i didnt get a chance to try them out with some combinations. Nevertheless i'm interested in getting a pair of hd600s instead and see how they would sound with the zero._

 

That is a pretty good idea. The HD-600 is a little brighter than the HD-650, but they retain all the other properties. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wonder if you could find someone who would "swap" headphones with you. I'm not sure how much the dt880s go for, but new HD-600s run $282.00 from a decent supplier here. I also found out they ship internationally, so I'll post the link: Sennheiser HD 600 - CompUPlus Direct You have to click to see the price once the page loads.


----------



## Frwkie

I've just tested the LT1028's. They sound very bright, but the noise level is much much higher than with OPA627BP, too high for pleasant listening experience. Also strugling with the right orientation, by the way: compared to my OPA627BPs, they are upside-down... (at least, that's the only orientation in which I don't hear a sharp crack when turning my Zero on/off).

 Is it because I'm doing something wrong?

 EDIT: Ok, afte a cool down period, I didn't notice it any more, but after a minute playing it comes again. So probably it gets too hot!?


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Frwkie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've just tested the LT1028's. They sound very bright, but the noise level is much much higher than with OPA627BP, too high for pleasant listening experience. Also strugling with the right orientation, by the way: compared to my OPA627BPs, they are upside-down... (at least, that's the only orientation in which I don't hear a sharp crack when turning my Zero on/off).

 Is it because I'm doing something wrong?

 EDIT: Ok, afte a cool down period, I didn't notice it any more, but after a minute playing it comes again. So probably it gets too hot!?_

 

The OPA627BP and the LT1028 should both have their text facing the same direction. If you have it wrong the zero might put out a whole lot of dc offset and could damage your headphones. I found that even though I had the LT1028 in the correct way, it does put out nearly 1 V dc offset through the dac out (or is this common?).


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Frwkie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've just tested the LT1028's. They sound very bright, but the noise level is much much higher than with OPA627BP, too high for pleasant listening experience. Also strugling with the right orientation, by the way: compared to my OPA627BPs, they are upside-down... (at least, that's the only orientation in which I don't hear a sharp crack when turning my Zero on/off).

 Is it because I'm doing something wrong?

 EDIT: Ok, afte a cool down period, I didn't notice it any more, but after a minute playing it comes again. So probably it gets too hot!?_

 

You have two on an adapter, correct?


----------



## Frwkie

Yes I have, on an adapter from tube_buyer (where i also got my opa627's). I'm mostly using the Zero connected to my tube amplifier, didn't experience any problems with my headphone yet (sh hd555). Now I'm afraid I have fake opa627bp's, although they don't sound bad at all. All the other combinations i tried gave a crack-noise when switching on/off, and even when I switched the Zero off directly, i could feel heat coming up and down.

 Edit: here you can find them: ebay
 Oh yes, and for "purity" reasons I use (them) only (in) my DAC output, not the amp.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Frwkie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes I have, on an adapter from tube_buyer (where i also got my opa627's). I'm mostly using the Zero connected to my tube amplifier, didn't experience any problems with my headphone yet (sh hd555). Now I'm afraid I have fake opa627bp's, although they don't sound bad at all. All the other combinations i tried gave a crack-noise when switching on/off, and even when I switched the Zero off directly, i could feel heat coming up and down.

 Edit: here you can find them: ebay
 Oh yes, and for "purity" reasons I use (them) only (in) my DAC output, not the amp._

 

On the adapter, is a painted representation of the notch. Make sure your LT1028's are oriented with their notch or circle at this same end.

 What are the numbers on your OPA627's?


----------



## Frwkie

They have a totally white print, BB logo aligned to the left, (R)USA at the right on the same row, and OPA627BP on the second line. The number (third row) is 0233 2111. It has only a center notch (no dimple) at the left side (relative to text orientation). On the bottom (c.q. "belly") is a circle with D15 in the middle. I don't have a camera here, and can't find a picture of them on the internet; which confirms that they are highly unique - anybody wanting to buy them? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 About my LT1028's and adapter: I'm sure _they_ are actually facing in the right direction (like the picture in you startpost, Penchum)


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Frwkie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They have a totally white print, BB logo aligned to the left, (R)USA at the right on the same row, and OPA627BP on the second line. The number (third row) is 0233 2111. It has only a center notch (no dimple) at the left side (relative to text orientation). On the bottom (c.q. "belly") is a circle with D15 in the middle. I don't have a camera here, and can't find a picture of them on the internet; which confirms that they are highly unique - anybody wanting to buy them? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 About my LT1028's and adapter: I'm sure they are actually facing in the right direction (like the picture in you startpost, Penchum)_

 

Ok. Do you have a meter to check pins 1 & 5? I went over to the "627 girls gone wild" thread and couldn't find a post on the 02332111.


----------



## Frwkie

Don't have a meter here, but i do have at my parents home. So tomorrow night I will check them (if i don't forget to take my opa's with me )
 Thanks sofar on the BB's!

 Any thoughts on the wait-a-minute-for-becoming-noisy-LT1028s in my DAC?

 Thanks
 Frwkie


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Frwkie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't have a meter here, but i do have at my parents home. So tomorrow night I will check them (if i don't forget to take my opa's with me )
 Thanks sofar on the BB's!

 Any thoughts on the wait-a-minute-for-becoming-noisy-LT1028s in my DAC?

 Thanks
 Frwkie_

 

When I tried them in mine, I didn't like them right from the start. Something sounds like they were straining to get the job done. I ran them for two nights, then I couldn't stand them anymore, so the OPA627's went back in. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This weirdness, was both in the built-in headphone amp and the DAC output. My Super-T amp did not sound right at all. I haven't had a chance to go back and look over the spec sheet, to see if something is "way out there" with the LT1028, but I have a feeling something is.


----------



## djembeplay

Lawrence is great... very personable. I'm just going to make an exchange for another Zero... problem solved.

 I have a quick question... I was originally planning on using the Zero as a DAC and AMP, so I bought the ALPS volume pot upgrade. I recently decided that I'm going to pick up a Little Dot MKV and just use the Zero as a DAC. With this setup, is there any advantage to having the ALPS upgrade, or should I just save the $20 and stick with the stock one?


----------



## vvanrij

Has anyone compared their Zero SS amp to other SS amps? Like against <200$ SS amps? And the zero with 627+1364's?


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djembeplay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lawrence is great... very personable. I'm just going to make an exchange for another Zero... problem solved.

 I have a quick question... I was originally planning on using the Zero as a DAC and AMP, so I bought the ALPS volume pot upgrade. I recently decided that I'm going to pick up a Little Dot MKV and just use the Zero as a DAC. With this setup, is there any advantage to having the ALPS upgrade, or should I just save the $20 and stick with the stock one?_

 

I like having the chance to have my ZERO as an alternate HP amp. Some songs and headphones I've noticed benefit from the slightly more forward 1364's (or maybe the ZERO HP amp), whereas some sound better with the more laid-back 627's, so a single button press can switch me over.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djembeplay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lawrence is great... very personable. I'm just going to make an exchange for another Zero... problem solved.

 I have a quick question... I was originally planning on using the Zero as a DAC and AMP, so I bought the ALPS volume pot upgrade. I recently decided that I'm going to pick up a Little Dot MKV and just use the Zero as a DAC. With this setup, is there any advantage to having the ALPS upgrade, or should I just save the $20 and stick with the stock one?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I like having the chance to have my ZERO as an alternate HP amp. Some songs and headphones I've noticed benefit from the slightly more forward 1364's (or maybe the ZERO HP amp), whereas some sound better with the more laid-back 627's, so a single button press can switch me over._

 

I agree. Having the flexibility to plug into whatever you'd like, and have it sound great, is very nice. Here is one example: It's getting hot out here now. In the heat of the afternoon, when the air conditioning is trying to keep the house a decent temperature, I will listen to the Zero's headphone amp because it doesn't produce much heat, nor does it draw much power. It helps keep things cool in here and the sound quality is good enough to satisfy.


----------



## Jazz9

I'm in the market for a new amp (preferably with a built-in DAC) for home and this forum is making my head spin...
 I first was set on getting the Zero DAC: it was cheap and had both an amp and DAC that I could use through my sound card's optical out.
 Then I saw the review about the new D2 Boa: cheap with a built-in DAC and portable so i could use it linked to my computer AND with my sony player when I feel like listening to music in bed.
 But would I lose sound quality compared to the non-portable Zero Dac? The question remains...

 While looking for more information in my quest, i stumbled on Penchum's review of the Little Dot MK I.
 A portable amp (without Dac 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 , it would have to use my Fortissimo IV (Envy24) analogue out) that seemed able to drive relatively well even demanding phones and dirt cheap to boot.
 That got me interested in this Little Dot brand and I saw the Little Dot MK III which seemed to be the best bang for the buck deal when it comes to sound quality.
 But I'm not really familiar with tubes and fear that the better sound quality would come with too many disadvantages:
 -the "hot factor", like I said I would use the amp with my PC so it would be close to me
 -Biasing.... I don't even know what that means lol
 -And just like with the MK I, the source would be my envy24 based sound card (won't buy a separate DAC)
 But still I wonder if I should go for the "superior" sound quality despite all this (penchum's review did sound mighty tempting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )

 I'm leaning for the moment towards the Zero DAC solution since it has both a DAC and amp while being relatively inexpensive but I'm still not sure...

 So I ask you (especially Penchum since he has reviewed all but one of these amps but others are more that welcomed to help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) what would be the best deal between these (or others...I mean there's just too many of these damn things! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ).
 And just to be clear between a great sounding non-portable solution and a same priced portable one that sounds somewhat worse, I'm choosing the non portable one anytime. Quality before portability.

 If it can help you I like a full sound with good tight bass (not bloated or overwhelming), smooth mids (but not recessed) and highs (harsh highs are definitely a no), a large soundstage and good dynamics. I don't want the sound to be overly bright or analytical and definitely not thin but I don't want it to be too veiled or muddy either.
 I have Senns HD595 for the moment but I'm thinking of upgrading (suggestions welcomed).

 Thanks everyone!


----------



## Frwkie

Hello, me again. I just measured the resistance of my OPA627BP between pin 1 an pin 5 as ~51k (should be ok, right?). 
 By the way, they look shockingly similar to these (actually, I took a photo of them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




):


----------



## djembeplay

If I'm using the Zero just as a DAC feeding a LD MKV, the choice of volume pot (stock or ALPS upgrade) won't make a different at all because it's bypassed, right?


----------



## Hardflip

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djembeplay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I'm using the Zero just as a DAC feeding a LD MKV, the choice of volume pot (stock or ALPS upgrade) won't make a different at all because it's bypassed, right?_

 

Exactly. I have mine, with the alps, going into my MKV or MKIII (or both for sweetness beyond belief) and the volume on the Zero is at, well, zero.

 There's a problem with my pot, though. I only get sound out of the right channel. The pcb under the pot looks a little burned. I gave a half-hearted effort to try and fix it, but without a solder pump at the moment. One day I may take another shot, but it won't make a difference in my setup. The amp on the Zero, in my limited way, sounds good, but really nothing compared to the brilliance that is the MKV.

 The Zero, btw, is a wonderful DAC, particularly with the 627BP's. I is quite noticably better than my Asus Xonar or X-Meridian. The Xonar has a Burr-Brown 1796 DAC I think, so it is impressive for the Zero to be it so soundly.


----------



## djembeplay

Cool, thanks.

 I think I'll just save the 20 bucks and go with the stock volume pot then.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jazz9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm in the market for a new amp (preferably with a built-in DAC) for home and this forum is making my head spin...
 I first was set on getting the Zero DAC: it was cheap and had both an amp and DAC that I could use through my sound card's optical out.
 Then I saw the review about the new D2 Boa: cheap with a built-in DAC and portable so i could use it linked to my computer AND with my sony player when I feel like listening to music in bed.
 But would I lose sound quality compared to the non-portable Zero Dac? The question remains...

 While looking for more information in my quest, i stumbled on Penchum's review of the Little Dot MK I.
 A portable amp (without Dac 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 , it would have to use my Fortissimo IV (Envy24) analogue out) that seemed able to drive relatively well even demanding phones and dirt cheap to boot.
 That got me interested in this Little Dot brand and I saw the Little Dot MK III which seemed to be the best bang for the buck deal when it comes to sound quality.
 But I'm not really familiar with tubes and fear that the better sound quality would come with too many disadvantages:
 -the "hot factor", like I said I would use the amp with my PC so it would be close to me
 -Biasing.... I don't even know what that means lol
 -And just like with the MK I, the source would be my envy24 based sound card (won't buy a separate DAC)
 But still I wonder if I should go for the "superior" sound quality despite all this (penchum's review did sound mighty tempting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )

 I'm leaning for the moment towards the Zero DAC solution since it has both a DAC and amp while being relatively inexpensive but I'm still not sure...

 So I ask you (especially Penchum since he has reviewed all but one of these amps but others are more that welcomed to help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) what would be the best deal between these (or others...I mean there's just too many of these damn things! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ).
 And just to be clear between a great sounding non-portable solution and a same priced portable one that sounds somewhat worse, I'm choosing the non portable one anytime. Quality before portability.

 If it can help you I like a full sound with good tight bass (not bloated or overwhelming), smooth mids (but not recessed) and highs (harsh highs are definitely a no), a large soundstage and good dynamics. I don't want the sound to be overly bright or analytical and definitely not thin but I don't want it to be too veiled or muddy either.
 I have Senns HD595 for the moment but I'm thinking of upgrading (suggestions welcomed).

 Thanks everyone!_

 

Hey Jazz!

 Well, you said a lot. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Here is what I think. If you pick up a Zero, put better Opamps in it and enjoy it for a while, you will get a better feel for where to go next. MANY folks who have done this, end up buying a MKIII or MKV and driving it with the Zero's DAC output. Doing it this way, spreads the cost out over a longer time period and gives you a chance to decide if your headphones are going to work out like you wanted.

 From what you said about headphones, you might consider the HD-600. There is a sizable following here and their love runs deep for them.


----------



## fishkill62

Listeners..
 Lawrence is currently building my first Zero. He is upgrading the DAC section (?) with OPA627AU's and fitting an Alps volume pot. This I'm happy with. 
 He has however suggested that he fit OPA637's to the headamp where I believed LT1364's were the choice. It's going to power AKg 701s. Your advice please? Thanks Chris.....


----------



## Leto Atreides II

This DAC/Amp looks to be exactly what I was looking for.

 On ebay, I had to provide a phone number for "shipping purposes".

 If anyone else has ordered this way, when do they usually call?


----------



## rpveld

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Leto Atreides II* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This DAC/Amp looks to be exactly what I was looking for.

 On ebay, I had to provide a phone number for "shipping purposes".

 If anyone else has ordered this way, when do they usually call?_

 

I suppose they (the shipping company) only use it when they have problems delivering it to you.
 They never called me.


----------



## Leto Atreides II

Shenzen China to Portland Oregon.

 That's actually where my laptop shipped from.


----------



## Jazz9

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Jazz!

 Well, you said a lot. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Here is what I think. If you pick up a Zero, put better Opamps in it and enjoy it for a while, you will get a better feel for where to go next. MANY folks who have done this, end up buying a MKIII or MKV and driving it with the Zero's DAC output. Doing it this way, spreads the cost out over a longer time period and gives you a chance to decide if your headphones are going to work out like you wanted.

 From what you said about headphones, you might consider the HD-600. There is a sizable following here and their love runs deep for them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thank you for your help Penchum!!!
 Really much appreciated.
 And just to know how would you rank the little dot MK I, the Zero with stock opamps and MK III on SQ alone?
 And concerning the Zero, what opamps would be good for me knowing what you know about my sound preferences (I wouldn't change them right away but would still like to know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )?
 Thanks again for all your hard work!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jazz9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you for your help Penchum!!!
 Really much appreciated.
 And just to know how would you rank the little dot MK I, the Zero with stock opamps and MK III on SQ alone?
 And concerning the Zero, what opamps would be good for me knowing what you know about my sound preferences (I wouldn't change them right away but would still like to know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )?
 Thanks again for all your hard work!_

 

Well, it's really hard to rank such things. I guess I would say that the MK1 is portable, so it has a different purpose. The Zero with better Opamps, is still a Solid State amp of more than reasonable quality. The MKIII is a very nice tube amp that performs well above it's small price.

 One thing to consider, is the difference between SS amps and tube amps. Let's say the SS amps are accurate, precise and dynamic, while the tube amps are dynamic, warmer and somewhat customizable to your tastes. Which type of sound would you like to have for an end result?

 If you don't know, then the Zero's built-in headphone amp will give you a taste of what SS amps sound like. After a while, you will know if it is time to venture out and grab up a tube amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They are cool looking and fun too.


----------



## Jazz9

I think I'll go with the Zero from now and see how it pans out.
 Concerning opamps, I see that the 1364+1361 combo for headphones use seems to have good reviews, how is the sound compared to the stock opamps (more aggressive? more detailed? more refined?).
 I know I'm asking too much questions and feel like I'm taking advantage of your kindness but the more info I can get the better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 And you should seriously consider asking the zero and little dot makers a share of their profits 'cause I'm pretty sure your reviews have sold quite a bit of their products around here


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jazz9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think I'll go with the Zero from now and see how it pans out.
 Concerning opamps, I see that the 1364+1361 combo for headphones use seems to have good reviews, how is the sound compared to the stock opamps (more aggressive? more detailed? more refined?).
 I know I'm asking too much questions and feel like I'm taking advantage of your kindness but the more info I can get the better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.

 And you should seriously consider asking the zero and little dot makers a share of their profits 'cause I'm pretty sure your reviews have sold quite a bit of their products around here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks for the kind words. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I review only what I purchase, and I do it for all of you folks. My mission (if I really have one) is to show everyone that they can have quality audio at more than reasonable prices. I too live on a budget and I understand why folks go looking for the "best bang for the buck". I have been lucky, because some items I have found are better than the more costly items considered popular here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 When that happens, it is like icing on the cake. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well, like everything in here, times change and so do opinions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The general consensus among Zero owners, is that the OPA627's in the DAC and LT1364's in the headphone amp, are the "universal" good sound for most headphones. Both of mine have this configuration now. Before that, I had LT1364 in the DAC and LT1469's in the headphone amp and was having problems with the DAC output sounding only fair.

 There is something very nice about the OPA627's in the DAC. The DAC output to a separate amp, improves greatly and the combo of OPA627's in the DAC and LT1364's in the headphone amp, does nice things for the built-in headphone amp. Thanks to this combo, I use my Zero's headphone amp more often than I did before. I have a lot of choices for listening in here, so I guess that says something nice about the Zero in this configuration. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I would say that using my HD-650's, the improvements are in dynamics and in the entire spectrum. It doesn't seem to lack anything and the sound stage is greatly improved.


----------



## Jazz9

Ok so I'll have to buy one of these: 1 MODULE OF 2 Pre-Mounted OPA627AU Op-amps on Adapter en vente sur eBay.fr (fin le 07-Juin-08 08:55:47 Paris)
 and two lt1364, is that correct?
 Problem is I live in France and I can't find any lt1364 anywhere, can't find them on Ebay either.
 Shipping from linear technology to France for two lt1364s is 30.78USD so...
 Is there another way to get them or is linear technology the only solution?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jazz9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok so I'll have to buy one of these: 1 MODULE OF 2 Pre-Mounted OPA627AU Op-amps on Adapter en vente sur eBay.fr (fin le 07-Juin-08 08:55:47 Paris)
 and two lt1364, is that correct?
 Problem is I live in France and I can't find any lt1364 anywhere, can't find them on Ebay either.
 Shipping from linear technology to France for two lt1364s is 30.78USD so...
 Is there another way to get them or is linear technology the only solution?_

 

Hey, that's Lawrence you found there! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have a set of those and they sound great. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll PM you on the other stuff.


----------



## mnemoniak

Jazz9, from Farnell FR | FARNELL France - distributeur de composants Ã©lectroniques, composants Ã©lectriques, connectique et fourniture industrielle - 400.000 rÃ©fÃ©rences - livraison sous 24h. you will pay about €12 of shipping costs and €7.40 per amp. It seems to be the only way to get them here in France.


----------



## jruser

I've been out of the amplifier game for a while now and it has changed a lot. Is there something similar to this in function/quality/price that has a set of analog inputs (with or without the dac)?

 I'm thinking of getting the Zero and hooking the optical input to the optical output of my Onkyo TX-SR805 and the coax input to my computer.

 Does anybody know how decent/bad the headphone output is on a receiver like the Onkyo I am using? I listened to it for a couple of hours yesterday and couldn't make a decision about what I thought.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jruser* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been out of the amplifier game for a while now and it has changed a lot. Is there something similar to this in function/quality/price that has a set of analog inputs (with or without the dac)?

 I'm thinking of getting the Zero and hooking the optical input to the optical output of my Onkyo TX-SR805 and the coax input to my computer.

 Does anybody know how decent/bad the headphone output is on a receiver like the Onkyo I am using? I listened to it for a couple of hours yesterday and couldn't make a decision about what I thought._

 

There's a whole thread discussing this here which you might find helpful.


----------



## glac1er

I got my Zero about 5 days ago and has burned it in for about 100 hours. I haven't noticed any sound changes. Suffice to say that it sounds like a bigger upgrade (overall) for my setup than some non-DAC portable amps and Corda Headfive I had long time ago. It really can drive the ER4S well, I'm very satisfied 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. And it's so cheap here...
 Is it just me, or is the stock Zero revealing and analytical? My lower quality mp3s doesn't sound good now. 

 The ER4S has a LOT of details now, but it sounds as if it's missing a tube amp in the middle. And with my DT531, the Zero sucks quite a bit of what I like about the DT531. It used to be musical, sloppy,and non revealing headphone, but now it sounds like a mini refined headphone like the DT880 or HD580.

 I was planning opa627 + lt1364, but I'm not sure now. Does anybody have experience with good warm and musical opamp combinations?


----------



## deadmanwalking

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *glac1er* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was planning opa627 + lt1364, but I'm not sure now. Does anybody have experience with good warm and musical opamp combinations?_

 

Warm and musical... You must get these: LT1358. I have compared with the LT1364 lately among many others, and the LT1358 sounds the best. I guess better than the OPA627, too.

 Linky:

Tweakers' Asylum - A wonderful opamp! - Mule - May 28, 2008 at 05:01:53


----------



## timb

Well, I got an ALPS potentiometer for my Zero and went to install it this afternoon. As I was desoldering the existing potentiometer, the traces actually started to curl off the head-amp board, effectively ruining it.

 The built quality on this is amazingly cheap, but what can you really expect for the price, right?

 At any rate, this isn't the amp for me. If anyone wants what's left of my Zero, they can have it for $50 shipped to the lower 48. The DAC/Pre-Amp portion still works fine and I suspect the head-amp section could be fixed with minimal point to point wiring.


----------



## vvanrij

Hmm, this is your first post here, and you'v got a very different opinion then other people. Could you please explain more about why you like this better than the 1364/627's, and much more important, WHERE do you have the 1358's? Amp or Dac or both??


----------



## Henmyr

My experience with LT1358 in the amp is that it gives a very strange sound, just odd. There is nothing in the coloration which does it, it's something else. It's like the singers can't really keep the timing of the song. This was my short impression of it though. I do not know how good it will be in the dac, and I do not know how technically good they are.


----------



## deadmanwalking

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My experience with LT1358 in the amp is that it gives a very strange sound, just odd. There is nothing in the coloration which does it, it's something else. It's like the singers can't really keep the timing of the song. This was my short impression of it though. I do not know how good it will be in the dac, and I do not know how technically good they are._

 

There must be something odd in the Zero then, since in both my DAC and my amp they sound extremely natural, with very firm and articulate, but full, bass and midbass. In any event, the LT1358 sounded much better than the LT1364 in my Xenos amp especially, much smoother and warmer, but equally clear, therefore far more musical (please refer to the thread on Audio Asylum for other details).

 Anyway in the Zero the LT1358 could work well in the DAC board... just try.


----------



## deadmanwalking

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's like the singers can't really keep the timing of the song. This was my short impression of it though._

 

Perhaps that's due to how tight and clear the bass sounds, LOL. The midrange and treble are so clear and smooth and lifelike with the LT1358... Can't exactly say the same of the LT1364. While it's a long time since I last heard the LT1361, that I remember having liked a lot at the time.

 My reckoning is that the LT1364 can be too fast and picky an opamp (look at its 600 nA input bias current BTW, which makes it almost as peaky in DC behavior as it is in the AC behavior) to be used with success for audio. Use the LT1358, that's my tip. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Funny, BTW, that no one has yet measured the DC offset voltage produced by the LT1364 in the Zero's headphone amp. It should be a must do. You don't want to put strain on your headphones' voice coils, do you?


 later EDIT: Penchum, no comment?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm, this is your first post here, and you'v got a very different opinion then other people. Could you please explain more about why you like this better than the 1364/627's, and much more important, WHERE do you have the 1358's? Amp or Dac or both??_

 

Humm is probably correct.


----------



## windrider

Just tried lt1358+lt1469 in the dac (with dt880 250ohms) and my first impression is that it seems to be a good middleground between lt1364+lt1469 and opa627+lt1469

 less airy than opa627+1469 or opa627+lt1364, but also less harsh on the treble: first impression is that it might not be fatiguing to me.

 midrange (vocals) are abit more prounounced/smooth than lt1364+lt1469. Which is a very good thing since my biggest complaint with the lt1364/lt1469 on dt880s is that the midrange sounds abit too "subdued" to me; too much low mids and a slight lack of high mids, and I have to crank up the volume to make up for the slightly lacking highs to get a satisfying sound. I would say the vocals and treble sound more natural to me on lt1358+lt1469 than on lt1364+lt1469.

 quantity of bass is less than lt1364+lt1469, but i find it adequate. lt1364+lt1469 has more low bass though.

 I may have found new life with dt880s with this combination. Need to try it for a longer period of time to be sure though.

 I would say i still like the sound of opa627+lt1469 or opa627+lt1364 more, but they are fatiguing to me (on dt880s) for long listening sessions.


----------



## Henmyr

I have a slight "problem" which I doesn't seem to get right, and I think it's the Zero which does this. I wonder if anyone else notices this.

 Problem: The problem is very similar to sibilance, but instead of a spike in the sound, I get a flat and dry "shhh".

 Take a line from "Porcupine tree - The sound of muzak" for exemple:
 Should be: "One of the wonders of the world"
 Is: "One of the wondershh of the world"

 It is not a painful sound, but rather annoying. I can't seem to get rid of it, no matter which op-amp I use. Some are better some are worse. 

 It's mostly the s-sounds which which is emphasized, but not to the point that I would call it sibilance. I don't want them at all however.

 So, anyone else got this or is there something about my setup, such as my cables which is the cause? The problem is with all of my headphones, and both with the zero amp and with the Little Dot MKIII. 

 Maybe I should get one of those optical glass-cables.


----------



## vvanrij

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a slight "problem" which I doesn't seem to get right, and I think it's the Zero which does this. I wonder if anyone else notices this.

 Problem: The problem is very similar to sibilance, but instead of a spike in the sound, I get a flat and dry "shhh".

 Take a line from "Porcupine tree - The sound of muzak" for exemple:
 Should be: "One of the wonders of the world"
 Is: "One of the wondershh of the world"

 It is not a painful sound, but rather annoying. I can't seem to get rid of it, no matter which op-amp I use. Some are better some are worse. 

 It's mostly the s-sounds which which is emphasized, but not to the point that I would call it sibilance. I don't want them at all however.

 So, anyone else got this or is there something about my setup, such as my cables which is the cause? The problem is with all of my headphones, and both with the zero amp and with the Little Dot MKIII. 

 Maybe I should get one of those optical glass-cables._

 

Well I would be *really* surprised if the problem is in your cable 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Try listening to the same record on some cheaper gear, and focus on it. I got the feeling that this is some 'unwanted detail' that you can only hear on better gear.


----------



## Emanuel

Hi to all the people involved in this thread!
 I was just wondering..I wanted to update my audigy sound card with a dac, and my intention was to buy a usb dac (like the superpro 707) to plug and hear beatiful analogue-like music. Then I found this cute little thing which doesn't have the usb, but I've understood that can be plugged, for example, in the optical output of my current sound card. What I'm asking is: the quality of my digital audigy output does matter(its processed in someway)? It will be better to take digital signals out of my usb? I can set the sampling rate of my digital output for example, I don't know what it means..
 Thanks for any clues about that


----------



## edguetzow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a slight "problem" which I doesn't seem to get right, and I think it's the Zero which does this. I wonder if anyone else notices this.

 Problem: The problem is very similar to sibilance, but instead of a spike in the sound, I get a flat and dry "shhh".

 Take a line from "Porcupine tree - The sound of muzak" for exemple:
 Should be: "One of the wonders of the world"
 Is: "One of the wondershh of the world"

 It is not a painful sound, but rather annoying. I can't seem to get rid of it, no matter which op-amp I use. Some are better some are worse. 

 It's mostly the s-sounds which which is emphasized, but not to the point that I would call it sibilance. I don't want them at all however.

 So, anyone else got this or is there something about my setup, such as my cables which is the cause? The problem is with all of my headphones, and both with the zero amp and with the Little Dot MKIII. 

 Maybe I should get one of those optical glass-cables._

 

Hi, Henmyr!

 I just listened to that song and I think it is the recording. It sounds fine to me via MP3. Wilson pronounces "music" as "muzik". His "s" pronunciation seem to lean toward a "z" sound" to me. I don't hear th "sh" as you do.

 BTW, I am using a new glass toslink recommended by Penchum but I don't think that the cable would cause your effect.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edguetzow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, Henmyr!

 I just listened to that song and I think it is the recording. It sounds fine to me via MP3. Wilson pronounces "music" as "muzik". His "s" pronunciation seem to lean toward a "z" sound" to me. I don't hear th "sh" as you do.

 BTW, I am using a new glass toslink recommended by Penchum but I don't think that the cable would cause your effect._

 

Yes when I think about it more it more like a "z" instead of an "shhh".

 It's not only that song/album though. It's present in many songs and many albums by many artists. Maybe it's not a gear problem at all as you all say, but rather something which very often is present in the recording. "S" sounds seem to be VERY hard to get right, if it's the recordings and not my gear.

 It's kind of annoying though as it is a reminder that it is a recording I listen and not the reality.

 Even the HD650 had it, so it's not my taste in rather bright headphones which is the problem.
 ------------------------------------------------------
 EDIT: About the LT1358: 

 I have used it for a while today and have to say that I really enjoy it's rather natural midrange. The voices sound very clear and natural, moreso than OPA627 (if my pair is legit, but I can't see how they could not, as I find them to have every feature they should have sonically). The OPA627 is more laid back and with a little bit bigger soundstage. 

 My perfect op-amp would probably be:
 The transparancy of LME49720 (LT4562)
 The natural/neutral midrange of LT1358/OPA627 but with the clarity of LME49720
 The soundstage of OPA627
 The bass of OPA627
 A middleground of OPA627 and LME49720 treble.

 I really like everything about the LME49720 EXCEPT... the rather small soundstage and the slightly "dark purple/dark blue" coloration. Every time I use it I first get very excited about the transparancy, but soon get very annoyed by the rather dark coloration, similar to the DT880 but without the warm midrange. No headphone I've tried with it yet have "clicked" with it. I did find synergy between Zero dac (LME49720) and LD MKIII (Mullard EF92 CV131).


----------



## Penchum

Humm was correct.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes when I think about it more it more like a "z" instead of an "shhh".

 It's not only that song/album though. It's present in many songs and many albums by many artists. Maybe it's not a gear problem at all as you all say, but rather something which very often is present in the recording. "S" sounds seem to be VERY hard to get right, if it's the recordings and not my gear.

 It's kind of annoying though as it is a reminder that it is a recording I listen and not the reality.

 Even the HD650 had it, so it's not my taste in rather bright headphones which is the problem.
 ------------------------------------------------------
 snip_

 

I was wondering, at the same time this ZZZ thing is happening, what has become of the "ring" on the ride cymbals and tone of the crash cymbals?
 Are they having a similar smearing effect, at the same time? Or something like that?


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes when I think about it more it more like a "z" instead of an "shhh".

 It's not only that song/album though. It's present in many songs and many albums by many artists. Maybe it's not a gear problem at all as you all say, but rather something which very often is present in the recording. "S" sounds seem to be VERY hard to get right, if it's the recordings and not my gear.

 It's kind of annoying though as it is a reminder that it is a recording I listen and not the reality.


 I really like everything about the LME49720 EXCEPT... the rather small soundstage and the slightly "dark purple/dark blue" coloration. Every time I use it I first get very excited about the transparancy, but soon get very annoyed by the rather dark coloration, similar to the DT880 but without the warm midrange. No headphone I've tried with it yet have "clicked" with it. I did find synergy between Zero dac (LME49720) and LD MKIII (Mullard EF92 CV131)._

 

Yes I am having this problem as well. I am using the DAC preamp out to tube amp and then to my B&W speakers (602 S3). No mater what I changed, the Shss is there and it becomes very bright. I am using stock OPA2604, and this opamp helps very little.

 I actually COMPARED the ZERO DAC with Marantz CD63 KI (Ken Ishiwata) cd player. I found the Marantz cdp is way more sweet and warm then the zero. The vocal is very pronouced and the soundstage is wider.

 I hope to try out DY2000 and LT1358, to bring out the kind of sweet and warm vocals.

 Note : Isnt the Zero DAC implements the burr brown same like the marantz cdp


----------



## prospero21

Hey guys,

 after letting the zero burn in for about 100 hours, I rolled the opamps today. I bought 3 x OPA627's from Lawrence, so I fitted 627's in the dac aswell as in the amp. I must say that for listening through speakers this combination is simply awesome, but for headphone pleasure's my initial feeling is that it sounds a bit too harsh and there is some apparant "sshh" in Eva Cassidy's voice... Ive ordered samples of the TL1364 from Linear so im hoping that combination proves a bit more relaxed on the ears... But having said that, the "open-ness" of these opamps is truly stunning ! Im hearing sounds ive never heard before on tracks that ive listened to at least a 1000 times 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Very enlightening, as these are my very first steps on the semi-high-end audio path and I feel an addiction on the horizon..


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was wondering, at the same time this ZZZ thing is happening, what has become of the "ring" on the ride cymbals and tone of the crash cymbals?
 Are they having a similar smearing effect, at the same time? Or something like that?_

 

It's mostly the found in the vocals. It's not the kind of sibilance which jumps out and cut me in the ear. It's not a sharp sound. It's flat, dry and sometimes pronounced.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *prospero21* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys,

 after letting the zero burn in for about 100 hours, I rolled the opamps today. I bought 3 x OPA627's from Lawrence, so I fitted 627's in the dac aswell as in the amp. I must say that for listening through speakers this combination is simply awesome, but for headphone pleasure's my initial feeling is that it sounds a bit too harsh and there is some apparant "sshh" in Eva Cassidy's voice... Ive ordered samples of the TL1364 from Linear so im hoping that combination proves a bit more relaxed on the ears... But having said that, the "open-ness" of these opamps is truly stunning ! Im hearing sounds ive never heard before on tracks that ive listened to at least a 1000 times 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Very enlightening, as these are my very first steps on the semi-high-end audio path and I feel an addiction on the horizon.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

What headphones do you use? HD580? The LT1469 is rather good in the amp for bright headphones. I like it very much with my RS1. I do however think they would be an awful combination with HD580. LT1364 could work well.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's mostly the found in the vocals. It's not the kind of sibilance which jumps out and cut me in the ear. It's not a sharp sound. It's flat, dry and sometimes pronounced._

 

So this is more of a "upper mid" range thing. It really sounds like a recording issue. Either the vocals are too close to the Mic, or the source was analog and is now digital with too much filtering. Also, some vocals are purposely kept from being too bright during mixing. If this isn't happening on all of your music, I would be suspicious that the source contains the issue in one way or another. Any thoughts??


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes I am having this problem as well. I am using the DAC preamp out to tube amp and then to my B&W speakers (602 S3). No mater what I changed, the Shss is there and it becomes very bright. I am using stock OPA2604, and this opamp helps very little.

 I actually COMPARED the ZERO DAC with Marantz CD63 KI (Ken Ishiwata) cd player. I found the Marantz cdp is way more sweet and warm then the zero. The vocal is very pronouced and the soundstage is wider.

 I hope to try out DY2000 and LT1358, to bring out the kind of sweet and warm vocals.

 Note : Isnt the Zero DAC implements the burr brown same like the marantz cdp_

 

How many hours do you have on the Zero? Have at least 100hrs before critical listening of any type. If you are there already, a change in Opamps is what you need. You didn't tell us what headphones you are using, so it is difficult for us to recommend which Opamps.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *deadmanwalking* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well in fact the LM6172 is doing nothing spectacular, just sounding "right". The LT1358 ultimately sounded a bit too rounded in this particular DAC, the stock LT1364 was better. The LT1028 has been the most transparent and impressive opamp so far, perhaps I'll go back to it if the LM6172 doesn't convince at length - but for now it does. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

My understanding was that the LM6171 was rather picky, and that it wouldn't work in the Zero. Am I wrong, or is the LM6172 very different from LM6171?

 I also really like the transparancy the LT1028 have, but it doesn't work well in the Zero due to heat and dc offset from the preamp/dac output.

 EDIT: BTW, I'm using the LT1358 in the dac at the moment, and I like the fact that it have a nice midrange, but without the warmth which often is the case (LT1364)


----------



## timb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *deadmanwalking* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see. No it shouldn't cause the sibilance, but certainly it will cause an overal coldness to the sound as compared to the Blue Jeans optical. At least these were my impressions._

 

Wait, what?

 An optical cable is an optical cable.

 Do you understand how optical works? It's pulses of light representing binary data. On or off, light or no light. Unless you're running the optical cable well over 20 feet, a glass cable will make zero difference, and even then you'd be better off with coax.

 Let me reiterate this; it's PCM sent over an optical S/PDIF link, it's not going to sound _colder_ or _warmer_. It's a digital signal.

 While I'm on the subject, I'd also like to point out there is zero difference between coax and optical digital. It's the *exact* same S/PDIF signal, just transmitted two different ways. That means you cannot hear a difference, no matter how much you think you can.


----------



## timb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *deadmanwalking* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The matter is more complex... Do you know about jitter? How can you say that the presence of jitter won't influence the tonality. The sound is composed of tonal colors among everything else... wheter converted into digital or not.


 BTW, the difference between the supplied optical (with the Zero), the Blue Jeans optical, and the Blue Jeans coaxial, is all there and very audible. You're forgetting the influence of the transmitting and receiving circuitry inside transport and DAC, anyway._

 

Explain to me what *you* think jitter is and how a _Blue Jeans_ cable will introduce less of it.

 Also, you do realize that your super fancy cable still plugs into a cheap TOSLINK port that has a plastic / resin lens on it, right? That's still your bottleneck.

 The only reason you would need a fancy optical cable is for really long runs or high bandwidth applications, and the audio you're piping through is relatively low bandwidth.


----------



## ascherjim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *timb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_True. Whatever makes people happy I suppose.

 Psychoacoustic effects are a very odd thing indeed. People spend money on cables and want to hear a difference in order to justify their purchase, so they do._

 

I'll join in, just briefly, to say that I've generally been skeptical about the touted benefits of high-priced cables, but I've just succumbed to replacing the standard cable on my Sennheiser 595's with a custom made $85 cable, and I "think" I perceive an improvement. But then headphone cables are not transmitting digital signals, so I suppose there is more of a rationale for improving headphone cables (I guess).


----------



## timb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ascherjim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll join in, just briefly, to say that I've generally been skeptical about the touted benefits of high-priced cables, but I've just succumbed to replacing the standard cable on my Sennheiser 595's with a custom made $85 cable, and I "think" I perceive an improvement. But then headphone cables are not transmitting digital signals, so I suppose there is more of a rationale for improving headphone cables (I guess)._

 

I can buy into (some) cable upgrades when you're dealing with analog signals, but that's a completely different topic.


----------



## tinseljim

Say what??? Anyways...

 Other than the Alps vol. pot, and better opamps, are there any other good bang for the buck mods any of you know of?

 Cheers all, lets get this show back on the road!

 JIm


----------



## coredump

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *timb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can buy into (some) cable upgrades when you're dealing with analog signals, but that's a completely different topic._

 

First time I connected my Zero to my LDIII I had some really cheap RCA cables. I swapped them for some thicker shielded ones and it sounded much better.


----------



## timb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coredump* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_First time I connected my Zero to my LDIII I had some really cheap RCA cables. I swapped them for some thicker shielded ones and it sounded much better._

 

Again, that's analog, not digital. I won't argue that higher quality cables sound better when dealing with analog sources.

 Digital is digital. You're either going to hear sound or not hear sound. Period. No noise, no static, no "warmer" or "cooler" sounds. It's strictly black and white.

 What anyone thinks they're hearing is neither here nor there. The great thing about digital is it's very easy to scientifically prove my point.

 Take a $5 StarTech cable and pit it against a $50 Monster cable. Hook two computers -each with identical sound cards- together with the StarTech cable, start playing an audio file on the first system and record the raw PCM stream on the other. Then do the same thing with the Monster cable.

 If you run an MD5 hash on both files they will be identical.

 The proof is in the pudding, and in this case the store brand is just as tasty as the name brand.


----------



## prospero21

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What headphones do you use? HD580? The LT1469 is rather good in the amp for bright headphones. I like it very much with my RS1. I do however think they would be an awful combination with HD580. LT1364 could work well._

 

I'm using a HD-580 and a K-340. The current setup with the 627's sounds very, very nice on the AKG's. But with the Senns not so much...

 Altho, ive "upgraded" the HD-580's with new earpads and a HD-650 cable today, and this is definitely a sonic improvement and things are beginning to sound a bit better.


----------



## oldson

i take it that goes for optical and coaxial?


----------



## Penchum

In case you guys missed it, you just got all stirred up by Andrea again!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Deadmanwalking = Andrea

 Hopefully, all the useless posts will be gone soon.


----------



## tinseljim

Yep that was what I was getting at...thanks for banning! ;/


----------



## timb

Sorry, didn't mean to derail!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tinseljim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Say what??? Anyways...

 Other than the Alps vol. pot, and better opamps, are there any other good bang for the buck mods any of you know of?

 Cheers all, lets get this show back on the road!

 JIm_

 

Swap the cheap 'lytics with Panasonic FM's,Nichicon Muse or Elna Simlic II 's, that's as good as it will get for bang for buck mod. An expensive mod would be a tentlabs XO 2 clock + PSU. Would be cool to try that one (95 bucks for XO 2).


 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In case you guys missed it, you just got all stirred up by Andrea again!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Deadmanwalking = Andrea

 Hopefully, all the useless posts will be gone soon._

 


 This Andrea ...cough...sockpuppet....cough....is like Arnie Krueger from the old BBS boards in rec.hi-end audio.......Ole Arnie still dogs John Atkinson (Sterophile Editor) to this very day, going on 12 + years now......ruined the BBS for many many people, before there were HTTP web forums and moderators. Man that was a LONG time ago 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I remember when the net was all text, with no adverts, and very little graphics. Sure was different, but cool at the same time. Could get info for free back then, now you have to pay for everything, no matter how crappy or useless. Ok, that might be a bit of an exaggeration 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 End of mini rant 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


 PS I really like the LT1364's in the Zero headphone section. Much better than the stock jobbies. Thanks for doing the legwork on that Pench. Got my LT package today. It was relayed by the regional office for LT. LOL.


----------



## Archimago

Been lurking around for about 300+ pages .

 Anyhow, just received my Zero from Lawrence quickly... About 10 days all together from ordering to arrival to Vancouver, Canada.

 Running stock opamps:
 MacBook --> adaptor --> optical packin cable --> Zero --> Audio-technica ATH-M50

 Definitely an upgrade to my MacBook so far soundwise. Thanks Penchum again for the thread and review, as well as the great hints on opamp rolling from everyone.

 I'm waiting for my LT samples - 1364, 1361, 1469, 1057 but will be enjoying the break-in process before fooling with these.

 One question: Has anyone CONFIRMED or DISPROVEN the oscillation theories with the hot-running LT13xx opamps a few (hundred) messages back? Do they run hot like this with other DAC's? I already have some VGA RAM stick-on coolers in preparation for the heat (Zalman ZM-RHS1).


----------



## tru\head

just got mine today, took around 1 week. it cleaned up the dt770s i'm using very well, i'll make a better post once the gear breaks in because both the phones and the amp are new.

 one thing I notice though is the dials and buttons look great, the only thing that makes the unit look a bit shabby is the faceplate, some sort of anodized aluminum would look excellent.


----------



## nor_spoon

This thread refuses to die. Wow!


----------



## sawyer

Finally I got the long awaited Zero (more than one month). It sounds amazing with my SR80. I'm impressive with the quality and quantity of the bass, deeper, more refined. The high is a little hash with some e-guitar stuff, but I believe that it will be improved after 100 hours of burn-in. Simply the best $130 I've spent 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I read 250 pages before purchasing, and I'm glad that I did. Thanks guys for this great thread.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Archimago* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Been lurking around for about 300+ pages .

 Anyhow, just received my Zero from Lawrence quickly... About 10 days all together from ordering to arrival to Vancouver, Canada.

 Running stock opamps:
 MacBook --> adaptor --> optical packin cable --> Zero --> Audio-technica ATH-M50

 Definitely an upgrade to my MacBook so far soundwise. Thanks Penchum again for the thread and review, as well as the great hints on opamp rolling from everyone.

 I'm waiting for my LT samples - 1364, 1361, 1469, 1057 but will be enjoying the break-in process before fooling with these.

 One question: Has anyone CONFIRMED or DISPROVEN the oscillation theories with the hot-running LT13xx opamps a few (hundred) messages back? Do they run hot like this with other DAC's? I already have some VGA RAM stick-on coolers in preparation for the heat (Zalman ZM-RHS1)._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tru\head* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_just got mine today, took around 1 week. it cleaned up the dt770s i'm using very well, i'll make a better post once the gear breaks in because both the phones and the amp are new.

 one thing I notice though is the dials and buttons look great, the only thing that makes the unit look a bit shabby is the faceplate, some sort of anodized aluminum would look excellent._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sawyer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Finally I got the long awaited Zero (more than one month). It sounds amazing with my SR80. I'm impressive with the quality and quantity of the bass, deeper, more refined. The high is a little hash with some e-guitar stuff, but I believe that it will be improved after 100 hours of burn-in. Simply the best $130 I've spent 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I read 250 pages before purchasing, and I'm glad that I did. Thanks guys for this great thread._

 

Congratulations you three! I too felt like I was getting an awful lot of goodness for my hard earned cash, when I bought my first Zero. It has proven to be a very nice little unit, that I could not do without.


----------



## JeffMac

Man, Lawrence must have just done a big shipment -- I received my Zero yesterday as well! I love it so far (though only 12 hours of burn in or so.) It has absolutely no problem powering my Senn HD580's. 

 I have yet to give it a good long listen (damn you, job I have to leave the house for!!!) but so far, I couldn't be more happy. The only thing is that the dynamics occasionally sound a little iffy with quick, complex volume changes (like echoing guitar with heavy vibrato.) But I'm not passing judgment on it certainly. Too early -- we'll see what it sounds like in a few days.

 I'm running it out of my Dell laptop (using this goofy SPDIF dongle that they sell extra -- with coax digital audio and component video out). To be honest, I wasn't expecting this to be my preferred method -- I was just going to use it for burn in as a stopgap -- but it turns out that it sounds fantastic so far. 

 The Zero seems to pretty silent at normal listening volumes, which was my biggest concern given the low cost. I was sure it was going to hum or hiss or buzz or something. But not so far. My second biggest concern was that it might have lousy build quality. But except for the cheesy volume pot (which, eh, whatever, I'm fine with it) it feels pretty solid. Very happy about the whole thing so far.

 I can not wait to hear this thing over the next few days as it matures!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This Andrea ...cough...sockpuppet....cough....is like Arnie Krueger from the old BBS boards in rec.hi-end audio.......Ole Arnie still dogs John Atkinson (Sterophile Editor) to this very day, going on 12 + years now......ruined the BBS for many many people, before there were HTTP web forums and moderators. Man that was a LONG time ago 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I remember when the net was all text, with no adverts, and very little graphics. Sure was different, but cool at the same time. Could get info for free back then, now you have to pay for everything, no matter how crappy or useless. Ok, that might be a bit of an exaggeration 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 End of mini rant 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


 PS I really like the LT1364's in the Zero headphone section. Much better than the stock jobbies. Thanks for doing the legwork on that Pench. Got my LT package today. It was relayed by the regional office for LT. LOL._

 

Thanks PP. I may have not been the first person to suggest it from a list of possible Opamps, but I did all the research and testing for sure. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So, you are using them with the discrete module in the DAC?? Tell us more please! I'm interested to know if my theory is correct or not. I should explain:

 I have felt from the beginning, that if an Opamp in the DAC, is truly full spectrum and reasonably flat on freq response, the LT1364's in the headphone amp will build upon and improve this excellent base signal and make it much more decent for headphones. During testing, no matter which Opamp I put in the DAC, the LT1364's in the head amp always made some measure of improvement, whether big or small. I could be wrong, but when I finally tested the OPA627's in the DAC, with the LT1364's in the head amp, I finally felt like I had hit a plateau of sorts. 

 At that point, I changed my testing parameters. I went about seeking the best sounding Opamp I could find, for the DAC section, using the DAC output to my tube amps. Many were nice, but I ended up hitting another plateau, with the OPA627's. 

 A little more combo testing, and the OPA627's in the DAC, with LT1364's in the head amp came out on top, as the "overall" best combination. As other folks tried this combo, it seemed to cross lines I had not expected, like working well with other amps, and working well with different brands of headphones. That really made my efforts worth while! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 What do you think???


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JeffMac* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Man, Lawrence must have just done a big shipment -- I received my Zero yesterday as well! I love it so far (though only 12 hours of burn in or so.) It has absolutely no problem powering my Senn HD580's. 

 I have yet to give it a good long listen (damn you, job I have to leave the house for!!!) but so far, I couldn't be more happy. The only thing is that the dynamics occasionally sound a little iffy with quick, complex volume changes (like echoing guitar with heavy vibrato.) But I'm not passing judgment on it certainly. Too early -- we'll see what it sounds like in a few days.

 I'm running it out of my Dell laptop (using this goofy SPDIF dongle that they sell extra -- with coax digital audio and component video out). To be honest, I wasn't expecting this to be my preferred method -- I was just going to use it for burn in as a stopgap -- but it turns out that it sounds fantastic so far. 

 The Zero seems to pretty silent at normal listening volumes, which was my biggest concern given the low cost. I was sure it was going to hum or hiss or buzz or something. But not so far. My second biggest concern was that it might have lousy build quality. But except for the cheesy volume pot (which, eh, whatever, I'm fine with it) it feels pretty solid. Very happy about the whole thing so far.

 I can not wait to hear this thing over the next few days as it matures!_

 

Thanks for the first impressions! The volume pot is, well, it's just a pot. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Several of us have changed the stock knob to a nice aftermarket jobby, and this makes the feel of the pot better, and it looks nicer too. Parts ConneXion as a bunch of knobs that are solid brass based. Have a good one!


----------



## tinseljim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Swap the cheap 'lytics with Panasonic FM's,Nichicon Muse or Elna Simlic II 's, that's as good as it will get for bang for buck mod. An expensive mod would be a tentlabs XO 2 clock + PSU. Would be cool to try that one (95 bucks for XO 2).


 Peete._

 

Cheers! Excuse the ignorance but how would the clock improve sq? Thanks

 James


----------



## JeffMac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...The volume pot is, well, it's just a pot. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ..._

 

Exactly. As long as it works (it does) and doesn't...I don't know...cause my home to burst into flames (it doesn't) then I don't really think about it.

 Thanks for the info on parts for switching it out -- though I'll probably just stick with the stock one. But then again the phrase, "Eh, I don't really _need_ to upgrade," seems to fall under the heading of 'Famous Last Words' round these parts...


----------



## vvanrij

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fried* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just a quick note for y'all.

*It was Andrea* who first recommended the *LT1364* and all the other LT opamps in this thread. Without him you would still all be playing with your 5532s - not only, he was the first to even recommend upgrading the opamps in the amp of the Zero, since your Penchum hadn't even figured that out.

 So much for (a small bit of) truth in a land of desolation. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








 Post Mortem EDIT: Guys try the LT1358, I think it the best opamp in the LT13XX line. I have loved the LT1364 for long, but this to my ears is even more colorful and natural (and doesn't misbehave as easily, nor is it likely to create DC offset voltage problems in the amps).



 Goodbye to y'all_

 

Hi Andrea, whatsup....

 btw, post mortem???


----------



## oldson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *timb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Again, that's analog, not digital. I won't argue that higher quality cables sound better when dealing with analog sources.

 Digital is digital. You're either going to hear sound or not hear sound. Period. No noise, no static, no "warmer" or "cooler" sounds. It's strictly black and white.

 What anyone thinks they're hearing is neither here nor there. The great thing about digital is it's very easy to scientifically prove my point.

 Take a $5 StarTech cable and pit it against a $50 Monster cable. Hook two computers -each with identical sound cards- together with the StarTech cable, start playing an audio file on the first system and record the raw PCM stream on the other. Then do the same thing with the Monster cable.

 If you run an MD5 hash on both files they will be identical.

 The proof is in the pudding, and in this case the store brand is just as tasty as the name brand._

 

are you saying that my £30 optical cable is no better than the cheapie that came with my zero?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks PP. I may have not been the first person to suggest it from a list of possible Opamps, but I did all the research and testing for sure. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So, you are using them with the discrete module in the DAC?? Tell us more please! I'm interested to know if my theory is correct or not. I should explain:

 I have felt from the beginning, that if an Opamp in the DAC, is truly full spectrum and reasonably flat on freq response, the LT1364's in the headphone amp will build upon and improve this excellent base signal and make it much more decent for headphones. During testing, no matter which Opamp I put in the DAC, the LT1364's in the head amp always made some measure of improvement, whether big or small. I could be wrong, but when I finally tested the OPA627's in the DAC, with the LT1364's in the head amp, I finally felt like I had hit a plateau of sorts. 

 At that point, I changed my testing parameters. I went about seeking the best sounding Opamp I could find, for the DAC section, using the DAC output to my tube amps. Many were nice, but I ended up hitting another plateau, with the OPA627's. 

 A little more combo testing, and the OPA627's in the DAC, with LT1364's in the head amp came out on top, as the "overall" best combination. As other folks tried this combo, it seemed to cross lines I had not expected, like working well with other amps, and working well with different brands of headphones. That really made my efforts worth while! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 What do you think???_

 

Hi Pench ! 

 Well you've certainly given me some food for thought. The OPA627's are still in transit so the HDAM/627 comparo is still a ways off. That being said I'll try and address your question about the head amp section (with the barely broken in LT1364's) being fed by the HDAM.

 With the stock 5532's in the HA (Head amp now equals HA for this post) the Zero was somewhat flat and lifeless, typical 5532 sound. It seems the HDAM couldn't do all that much for it. Maybe the 5532's shortcomings can't take advantage of the HDAM's full bandwidth etc...

 Enter the LT1364 on Monday morning....which reminds me...I really need to buy a set of IC puller/installers....makes life so much easier for opamp rolling....I digress
 First off the body,weight and dimensionality of the bass took on a visceral feel, kinda like a dry bow across the low E on a double bass. Neat !. I immediately thought ...wow these LT1364's are really something....then looked at the HDAM and wondered.....is the HDAM feeding the LT with a superior signal to amp ?

 **Out came the HDAM, in went the stock BB2604. Put the HD650's back on, cued up same passage (Gladiator ST-Might of Rome) and hit play.....not the same at all. Some of the previous dimension had remained but nuance, scope and depth had vanished into thin air. Oakey dokey.......try something different...HDAM back in ...pop 5532's back in and really concentrate on the strings this time. Same lack luster presentation as mentioned before, the 5532 is supposed to be a good all around op amp....isn't it ?.......says who ? 

 **After taking the 5532's out for good (anybody want some 5532's, they are yours, I'd gladly accept a small IC puller in trade 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) the LT's are back in living happily with the HDAM. The mids and highs are equally wonderful IMO. If this combo er's in any way it's in a tendency to accentuate kick drum,synth pop bottom end. Not sure if this is a minus at all. Maybe that is what is really on the recording to begin with. Could be....

 **(these opinions are being relayed in real time, testing and swapping as I write the post)

 I agree with you Pench, the HDAM/DAC opamp of choice does influence the HA's ultimate SQ.

 Now here's a truly strange combination I can try when the OPA627's arrive this week. I have two sets of brown dogs with 4 OPA627BP's (from tube-buyer) ....HDAM in DAC and OPA627's in HA section (if they both fit). Might be THE Ultimate amazing combo (if it's possible, I'll try it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


 Regards to all,

 Peete.

 PS I keep looking at the caps I have stock piled for the swap.......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 PPS: These observations are preliminary at best. I just have over 180+ (give or take 20) hrs on the Zero/HDAM/5532 with the 5532's getting the heave ho yesterday morning. The Zero has been running 24/7 since I got it nearly 2 weeks ago. The LT1364's have about 35 hrs on them. I feel the mids and highs will be better evaluated past the 50 hour mark. In other words a more in depth follow up to come.......in the HDAM/OPA627 post.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I think with all the questions floating about regarding differences in cabling (namely toslink) it's best to look at EMI/RFI rejection first then quality of delivered signal second.

 A good quality glass (not plastic) toslink properly screened and well constructed WILL deliver a truer representation of what the DAC is feeding it. Plenty of good quality cables are available for not much $$$ these days. 

 The real trick is too deliver this signal with as little interference as possible with as little loss as possible. Every time the error correction circuitry is accessed (due to cable inadequacies) it invokes a sonic penalty of sorts
 to a point where if there is enough of these interruptions the player skips, stutters or just plain quits playing the disc. 

 All this is in MHO of course. COAX cables can suffer from similar problems. True 75 ohm coax cable well terminated and screened with true 75 ohm rca's will be superior to any run of th mill 5 dollar special. Seems like common sense to me ....again IMO.

 Peete.


----------



## Penchum

Reality also plays into the cable discussion. So far, we have had NO reports of the Zero having trouble with cheapies, glass, plastic, coaxial, or even RCAs!

 Considering it seems to work very well with ALL of them, we are free to pick and choose whatever we prefer. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 'tis a good deal for us!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Pench ! 
 Snip
 PPS: These observations are preliminary at best. I just have over 180+ (give or take 20) hrs on the Zero/HDAM/5532 with the 5532's getting the heave ho yesterday morning. The Zero has been running 24/7 since I got it nearly 2 weeks ago. The LT1364's have about 35 hrs on them. I feel the mids and highs will be better evaluated past the 50 hour mark. In other words a more in depth follow up to come.......in the HDAM/OPA627 post._

 

Thanks PP!

 Your obsevations sound right on the money. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll be looking forward to your post 50 hour thing.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks PP!

 Your obsevations sound right on the money. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll be looking forward to your post 50 hour thing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks Penchum....I just got around to popping in those Syl 6AK5WB's into the MK III's driver bays that you and E raved about. Thanks E for the trade !!! These are wonderful tubes. Female vocals ( Kate Bush, Chrissy Hynde, et al) sound magical with these little beauties 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Male voices are equally represented. Nice and big sound stage without adverse colorations. Man o man Sylvania and RCA in the 50's sure knew how to make tubes right. They are similar in over all SQ to the 53 vintage syls I got from Yen back in Feb but without the microphonics my regular 6AK5's have developed. Noticeable improvement in detail retrieval, timbrel qualities of brass instruments is presented realistically. So many tubes get this quality wrong. All of the new production tubes are terrible in this regard with the exception of the new TUNG-SOL 12AX7's. Still the difference between the TS and NOS is striking.



 I have some 50's RCA 12AU7 clear tops and Amperex 12AX7's(grey plate round getter) in the MC7R pre amp for now. Nice combo. Not as euphonic as the RCA clear tops and RCA 5751 triple mica black plates though....(both types of 50's vintage, the Amperex are early 60's Electrohome, Canadian made jems, home town heroes so to speak 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 The Syl's remind of the best qualities of the 5751 RCA blk plate/RCA clear top 12AU7A's with none of the drawbacks. To be fair I don't think the 5751's have ANY bad qualities. The clear tops do tend to roll of highs ever so slightly but oh me oh my what lovely midrange and bass 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anywho.........I have 27 tubes due in to the house over the next week.....Amperex PQ E95F's (2 pairs) for the LD !! The rest are for the MC7R and the yet to arrive MC34-AB (on it's way as we speak).

 Busy times ahead....lots of music to listen to 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


 PS I think the HDAM/Zero combo that feeds the LD MKIII it's signal is the reason why I can discern these differences more easily or at all.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Reality also plays into the cable discussion. So far, we have had NO reports of the Zero having trouble with cheapies, glass, plastic, coaxial, or even RCAs!

 Considering it seems to work very well with ALL of them, we are free to pick and choose whatever we prefer. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 'tis a good deal for us! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Certainly, agreed 100%. The cables the Zero comes with are fine, they do the job. 

 Good quality does not automatically mean expensive,although you can go this route all to easily. As many have mentioned before, Blue Jeans cables are what I would consider good quality, fairly priced. Signal cable and better cables are others to choose from. 

 My rule of thumb for all this stuff is "whatever floats your boat". Works until you hit a rock


----------



## timb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think with all the questions floating about regarding differences in cabling (namely toslink) it's best to look at EMI/RFI rejection first then quality of delivered signal second.

*A good quality glass (not plastic) toslink properly screened and well constructed WILL deliver a truer representation of what the DAC is feeding it. Plenty of good quality cables are available for not much $$$ these days. 

 The real trick is too deliver this signal with as little interference as possible with as little loss as possible. Every time the error correction circuitry is accessed (due to cable inadequacies) it invokes a sonic penalty of sorts
 to a point where if there is enough of these interruptions the player skips, stutters or just plain quits playing the disc.*

 All this is in MHO of course. COAX cables can suffer from similar problems. True 75 ohm coax cable well terminated and screened with true 75 ohm rca's will be superior to any run of th mill 5 dollar special. Seems like common sense to me ....again IMO.

 Peete._

 

Digital audio -be it optical or coax- uses a protocol called S/PDIF. Analog data (sound) is converted to a digital stream through a method known as PCM.

 A cheaper quality TOSLINK cable could cause light to lose some brightness in transit, but that makes zero difference to the resulting sound. The light is either on or off. The fact that it makes it to the other end is all that matters. EMI/RFI doesn't affect it. As long as the light is making it from point _A_ to point _B_, nothing else matters. *Nothing*.

 You're not really hitting on anything using a glass cable, because guess what, the TOSLINK collector on the _Zero_ still uses a super cheap, bulk, Chinese, plastic/resin lenses. A standard plastic TOSLINK cable has an effective bandwidth of 5~6 MHz, more than enough for 192/48 stereo sound. (When you start getting into multichannel DTS sound, then the added bandwidth of a glass cable could be helpful.)

 Anyone who thinks they can hear an audible difference by switching out the optical cable on their Zero is fooling themselves.


----------



## coredump

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Reality also plays into the cable discussion. So far, we have had NO reports of the Zero having trouble with cheapies, glass, plastic, coaxial, or even RCAs!
_

 


 I had a problem with a dirty plastic optical cable. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Cleaned it off and it works fine. It's something to keep in mind if your getting stutter.


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *timb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Digital audio -be it optical or coax- uses a protocol called S/PDIF. Analog data (sound) is converted to a digital stream through a method known as PCM.

 A cheaper quality TOSLINK cable could cause light to lose some brightness in transit, but that makes zero difference to the resulting sound. The light is either on or off. The fact that it makes it to the other end is all that matters. EMI/RFI doesn't affect it. As long as the light is making it from point A to point B, nothing else matters. *Nothing*.

 You're not really hitting on anything using a glass cable, because guess what, the TOSLINK collector on the Zero still uses a super cheap, bulk, Chinese, plastic/resin lenses. A standard plastic TOSLINK cable has an effective bandwidth of 5~6 MHz, more than enough for 192/48 stereo sound. (When you start getting into multichannel DTS sound, then the added bandwidth of a glass cable could be helpful.)

 Anyone who thinks they can hear an audible difference by switching out the optical cable on their Zero is fooling themselves._

 

Well, I think I'll politely disagree, without causing too much ruckus, because I think I know who the poster really is...

 I will say that light may be just on or off, but when it gets refracted or blocked entirely by impurities in the transport medium, errors can occur or so I've read.
 I also think that the connection on the units may be plastic, but the light only needs to go through less than a millimeter of it, as opposed to 3 feet or more of cable.
 I think it works about the same as fiber optic communication over very long distances, albeit on a much smaller scale. Those cables must be of an extreme purity for those applications.

 Besides, why error correction circuitry?


----------



## timb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I think I'll politely disagree, without causing too much ruckus, because I think I know who the poster really is...

 I will say that light may be just on or off, but when it gets refracted or blocked entirely by impurities in the transport medium, errors can occur or so I've read.
 I also think that the connection on the units may be plastic, but the light only needs to go through less than a millimeter of it, as opposed to 3 feet or more of cable.
 I think it works about the same as fiber optic communication over very long distances, albeit on a much smaller scale. Those cables must be of an extreme purity for those applications.

 Besides, why error correction circuitry?_

 

As long as the light is getting through the cable it doesn't matter. If you're hearing sound (and not hearing pops or drop outs), then the cable is working. End of story.

 S/PDIF doesn't have error correction.

 Again, for the quality of audio being delivered to the Zero, plastic provides more than enough bandwidth.

 (That's not to say a poor quality plastic cable won't cause you problems, because it can. But you'll hear it in the form of pops or gaps in the audio. Things won't sound "warmer" or colder".)

 The plastic cable that came with my Zero seems to be of decent quality. The lens is clear on both ends and nothing wiggles.

 Edit: Also, I doubt you know who I am. I'm new to these boards. (Unless you know me from SA?)


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *timb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As long as the light is getting through the cable it doesn't matter. If you're hearing sound (and not hearing pops or drop outs), then the cable is working. End of story.

 S/PDIF doesn't have error correction.

 Again, for the quality of audio being delivered to the Zero, plastic provides more than enough bandwidth.

 (That's not to say a poor quality plastic cable won't cause you problems, because it can. But you'll hear it in the form of pops or gaps in the audio. Things won't sound "warmer" or colder".)

 The plastic cable that came with my Zero seems to be of decent quality. The lens is clear on both ends and nothing wiggles.

 Edit: Also, I doubt you know who I am. I'm new to these boards. (Unless you know me from SA?)_

 

Well, I hope we can agree to disagree then. Good thoughts though.

 Was thinking you might be the dreaded 'Andrea' but perhaps I'm wrong. I'm new as well.


----------



## timb

I can agree that I'm right and you disagree with me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Like I said, anyone can prove this by swapping TOSLINK cables and recording the raw PCM stream. Run an MD5 hash and both files will match. I've done it. Have you?

 I'd also bet money you couldn't tell the difference between cables in a double blind test. Again, I've done it, have you? (If you can, I think James Randi has a million bucks waiting for you.)


----------



## coredump

Doh. No DBT cable discussions.


----------



## timb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coredump* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Doh. No DBT cable discussions._

 

Sorry, I didn't realize it was frowned upon here. That's pretty lame, by the way. DBT is the best evidence against expensive cables, and somehow it's considered trolling... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 These expensive cables sure make the sound better!





 Wait, what? No they don't.





 Yes they do!





 Prove it with a double blind test.





 Rargh! No bringing up DBTs! That's not fair.





 See! They're better because I say they are. We'll just agree to disagree, okay?





 But... I...


----------



## oatmeal769

Now I'm fairly sure you're Andrea, LOL 

 All a hash matching test proves is that your plastic cable worked and your glass cable worked that particular time. If a particular plastic (or glass) cable is good, then it's good. I think the variance with glass in general will be less than plastic in general. For the $20 I spent, it's a good bet. - The extra $10 over plastic was worth it just for the firmer connection.

 If you were to bet me in a double blind test with my two cables - plastic and glass, then you'd get raised all in. I know I can hear a difference. Maybe the plastic one is scratched or dirty, I don't know.

 In the interest of keeping this thread positive and on topic, (I.E. Review: ZERO 24 BIT/192KHz DAC/Headphone Amp/Pre-Amp) I think that if you feel there needs to be further discussion, perhaps you can P.M. me.


----------



## timb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now I'm fairly sure you're Andrea, LOL 

 All a hash matching test proves is that your plastic cable worked and your glass cable worked that particular time. If a particular plastic (or glass) cable is good, then it's good. I think the variance with glass in general will be less than plastic in general. For the $20 I spent, it's a good bet. - The extra $10 over plastic was worth it just for the firmer connection.

 If you were to bet me in a double blind test with my two cables - plastic and glass, then you'd get raised all in. I know I can hear a difference. Maybe the plastic one is scratched or dirty, I don't know.

 In the interest of keeping this thread positive and on topic, (I.E. Review: ZERO 24 BIT/192KHz DAC/Headphone Amp/Pre-Amp) I think that if you feel there needs to be further discussion, perhaps you can P.M. me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm not him/her/it. A mod can check my IP.

 At any rate, fair enough. I should know better than to argue on the internet. No disrespect intended. Carry on.


----------



## mannnu81

i just purchased this on ebay yesterday along with an USB/TosLink adapter. cant wait for it to get here!
USB 5.1 Ch optical Controller Audio Sound Card S\PDIF - eBay (item 270242480820 end time Jun-04-08 04:30:32 PDT)
ZERO 24/192 DAC D A CONVERTOR , HEAD FI AMP , BRAND NEW - eBay (item 330240086406 end time Jun-05-08 00:44:50 PDT)
 Im really looking forward to this


----------



## Currawong

I have a Van Den Hul Optocoupler on the way, Toslink to mini-optical. There was a noticeable difference when I changed from a cheap optical cable to the one that came with the zero, so it will be interesting to find out how this upgrade goes.

 I'm thinking of emailing Lawrence to ask if I can swap just the headphone amp board for one with the Alps pot too.


----------



## tru\head

"OPA627s + LT1364 DAC=great, phone=great"

 I've built computers from parts but I'm clueless to opamp upgrading but i'll give it a shot if i can figure out what to buy and how to install it. It's probably been explained in this thread somewhere but I couldn't find it.

 1) Is this exactly what I would need to replace the default 2604 opamp with the OPA626?

1 MODULE OF 2 Pre-Mounted OPA627AU Op-amps on Adapter - eBay (item 330240688774 end time Jun-06-08 23:55:47 PDT)

 2) Where to get LT1364? Is it necessary to replace this as well?

 3) All of these are fitted to adapters so there's no soldering right?

 4) Heatsinks necessary on these?

 5) http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/h...355_resize.jpg
 I get thats where the OP627 goes.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/h...adAmpBoard.jpg
 Is that the other opamp behind the two red caps on the left where LT1364 would be replaced?

 thanks for any help!


----------



## tinseljim

arghhh eliminated=andrea 

 don't listen to eliminated. everyone who tries the 627s in whatever form likes it in the DAC. The headphone section most people go for 1364s, 4563s, or 1469s with the favorite being the 1364s.

 James


----------



## Archimago

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *eliminated* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Listen to the LM6172 and the LT1358 and DY2000 and then you know what you say.

 I never said the OPA627 was rubbish. Only it is overpriced and dull sounding 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 For the amp, the LT1364 certainly is a good choice IF it doesn't oscillate. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Then again, equally good or better sound can be obtained with the LT1358, DY2000, or others. The LT1469 and LM4562 certainly aren't spectacular sounding opamps - both flawed, especially the LT1469. I do agree that the LT1364 is the best of the three.

 And why don't you even think of trying two LT1028 on adapters on each socket of the amp? This will most certainly do your ears a better service than the LT1364.


 At any rate, diversity is a great thing boyz.

 'bye_

 

Hi eliminated,
 Interesting interchange... Since I can order another LT sample, have added the LT1358 to my list and I see it's "shipped" (probably will take about 2 weeks to Canada). Also might get OPA 627's from tube_buyer. Will write some impressions then.

 You've raised the dreaded "oscillation" word again... Do you or _anyone_ here have the means to measure this disturbing possibility. Would not want the Zero or headphones to have a meltdown! Wouldn't be such a good inexpensive audiophile deal then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Let's lay this issue to rest!


----------



## ccschua

I like tubelike warm sound. can someone give an impression about this DY2000 and LT1057.

 Linear techonolgy LT1057(dual, ceramic)
 Comment: Without a shadow of a doubt this op amp is the star of the the centry. Easy to listen to, easy to pick out every last detail and ever so natural. There was an ethereal quality to the sound that only ever heard on high quality loudspeaker based systems. It's hard to put what this op amp does into words but listening to the sound with it on board is as close to headphone heaven. Very analytical.

 Analog device DY2000 (dual, ceramic)
 Comment : These chips makes the sound more valve like than the tube sound ever did if that can possibly make any sense! Melodious, slightly laid back and warm yet it brings out every last bit of detail from a recording. Overall a very nice sound. A kind of hybrid valve and solid state mix which gives the best of both worlds. Nice smooth valve like mids and highs with lovely solid state bass oomph . This is the Op amp for those who prefer a valve like sound but would also like a solid state bottom end delivery. With this Op amp you can have your cake and eat it. Smooth as silk.


----------



## tinseljim

I'm going to abandon this thread soon if this continues...


----------



## kwekeugene

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I like tubelike warm sound. can someone give an impression about this DY2000 and LT1057.

 Linear techonolgy LT1057(dual, ceramic)
 Comment: Without a shadow of a doubt this op amp is the star of the the centry. Easy to listen to, easy to pick out every last detail and ever so natural. There was an ethereal quality to the sound that only ever heard on high quality loudspeaker based systems. It's hard to put what this op amp does into words but listening to the sound with it on board is as close to headphone heaven. Very analytical.

 Analog device DY2000 (dual, ceramic)
 Comment : These chips makes the sound more valve like than the tube sound ever did if that can possibly make any sense! Melodious, slightly laid back and warm yet it brings out every last bit of detail from a recording. Overall a very nice sound. A kind of hybrid valve and solid state mix which gives the best of both worlds. Nice smooth valve like mids and highs with lovely solid state bass oomph . This is the Op amp for those who prefer a valve like sound but would also like a solid state bottom end delivery. With this Op amp you can have your cake and eat it. Smooth as silk._

 

I have tried the OPA627 in DAC and LT1057 in the amp section previously. I agree it does give a very tube like sound but you will lose a lot of details. The midrange is brilliant and it might be just a little heavy on the bass. If you don't mind losing some details or if you already have a bright system, this maybe the opamp you are looking for.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tinseljim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm going to abandon this thread soon if this continues..._

 

I'm sick of this too, but I care about the folks here too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Report 'em if you see 'em!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Archimago* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi eliminated,
 Interesting interchange... Since I can order another LT sample, have added the LT1358 to my list and I see it's "shipped" (probably will take about 2 weeks to Canada). Also might get OPA 627's from tube_buyer. Will write some impressions then.

 You've raised the dreaded "oscillation" word again... Do you or _anyone_ here have the means to measure this disturbing possibility. Would not want the Zero or headphones to have a meltdown! Wouldn't be such a good inexpensive audiophile deal then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Let's lay this issue to rest!_

 

Please ignore Andrea. Keeps returning to stir up the "non-issues". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Andrea = eliminated


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kwekeugene* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have tried the OPA627 in DAC and LT1057 in the amp section previously. I agree it does give a very tube like sound but you will lose a lot of details. The midrange is brilliant and it might be just a little heavy on the bass. If you don't mind losing some details or if you already have a bright system, this maybe the opamp you are looking for._

 

I agree with this. I found the LT1057 to bring out the mids a bit. Good liquid mids. In the end though, I didn't find it detailed enough for me. Especially the hights did seem a bit recessed if I recall correctly.


----------



## amff

I joined head-fi because of this thread, thank you Penchum! I found a better deal in e-bay, try to search "Tianyun ZERO Multifuction Decoders" and the ZERO DAC is $110. The seller has 100% positive feedback and he answered my questions very quickly. My zero is in Vancouver now and hopefully I can get it soon..
 BTW how do I order free Op-amp sample? Just go to the manufacturers' sites and send them emails?


----------



## Archimago

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amff* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I joined head-fi because of this thread, thank you Penchum! I found a better deal in e-bay, try to search "Tianyun ZERO Multifuction Decoders" and the ZERO DAC is $110. The seller has 100% positive feedback and he answered my questions very quickly. My zero is in Vancouver now and hopefully I can get it soon..
 BTW how do I order free Op-amp sample? Just go to the manufacturers' sites and send them emails?_

 

Hey there Amff - another Vancouverite . I got mine from Lawrence back on Monday. Still burning in and awaiting opamp samples.

 You can order the Linear Tech ones here:
Linear Technology - Linear Home Page

 Go to the "Sign Up" for MyLinear. Then go to each of the opamps you're interested in like LT1364/1364/etc... and click on "request sample" on the respective pages.

 I think you can order up to 5 separate samples.


----------



## derekv

USPS? what is up? ARGGGGG!!! 



 Bullet Missent, May 31, 2008, 5:48 am
 Bullet Arrival at Unit, May 31, 2008, 5:29 am, ROYAL OAK, MI 48068
 Bullet Inbound Out of Customs, May 29, 2008, 3:40 pm
 Bullet Inbound Into Customs
 Bullet Inbound International Arrival, May 29, 2008, 3:29 pm, SAN FRANCISCO
 Bullet Foreign International Dispatch, May 28, 2008, 1:25 pm, HONG KONG AIR MAIL CENTRE, HONG KONG
 Bullet Origin Post is Preparing Shipment
 Bullet Foreign Acceptance, May 27, 2008, 4:50 pm, HONG KONG


----------



## Henmyr

I remember now that I actually have two LM6171. They are single right? So I would have to use two on adapter?

 What is the worst thing that can happen if they are not 100% compatible with the zero? I do NOT want to risk damaging the Zero.


----------



## tru\head

Thanks for the sample tip, i'm due in for LT1057CN8, LT1361CN8, LT1364CN8, LT1469CN8 from linear, hopefully those are the right ones. I'm sure the OPA627 is great but might as well try what I can get for free first.


----------



## Penchum

[size=medium]Note to our great posters, our "real" new members and long time members, who post in the Zero thread:

 If you see a new poster, going on about Opamp properties, DAC 707's, different LT Opamps than everyone else it talking about, IT IS ANDREA AND YOU SHOULD IGNORE THEM UNTIL THEY CAN BE DEALT WITH BY THE MODERATORS. The more attention we give to Andrea, the more he comes back. Please help other Zero owner's and future Zero owners, by putting these posts on ignore!

 The moderators will deal with Andrea again and delete the posts for us, so our history trial continues to show "real" experiences and opinions from all of you. You folks have made this thread a real treasure, and I for one salute each and every one of you, for contributing and helping out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for your help and understanding on this Andrea matter.[/size]


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gig* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Let go the LT1469 that sounds hard and dark, take the LT1358 that sounds tubey, open and liquid._

 

That depends very much on headphones. I find the LT1469 in the headamp to almost have a synergy with my RS1. They sound surprisingly good out of the Zero with LT1469 in the headamp.

 My LD MKIII with Sylvania 6AK5W does make them sound better, but the Zero amp isn't put to shame at all.

 Unfortunately I haven't found an op-amp synergy for the AD2000 though. The LD MKIII beats it here with quite a margin (but I still feel that they could improve in some areas, especially detail and transparancy).


----------



## windrider

with opa627 in dac, tried the 1358s in the amp and while they do have a nice warm and mellow sound, it might be overdoing it abit; comparing to lt1364 in the amp they have alot less dynamics, detail, vertical soundstage/space.

 Maybe they might fare better with other dacs but thats something for another day.

 Ultimately i think it depends on what phones one is using, i don't think there is a single "ultimate" opamp combination.

 Although so far i find that opa627+lt1364 is the combination that has the "most music" or "most details/dynamics", basically the "most information".


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *windrider* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_with opa627 in dac, tried the 1358s in the amp and while they do have a nice warm and mellow sound, it might be overdoing it abit; comparing to lt1364 in the amp they have alot less dynamics, detail, vertical soundstage/space.

 Maybe they might fare better with other dacs but thats something for another day.

 Ultimately i think it depends on what phones one is using, i don't think there is a single "ultimate" opamp combination.

 Although so far i find that opa627+lt1364 is the combination that has the "most music" or "most details/dynamics", basically the "most information"._

 

From my testing, the LT1358 haven't been my favorite either for use in the amp. Try it in the dac though, I find it to be just a bit better there.


----------



## vvanrij

this thread has become lame, and its a real shame because it was a very good one. I just can't trust anyone anymore with <50 posts


----------



## windrider

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_this thread has become lame, and its a real shame because it was a very good one. I just can't trust anyone anymore with <50 posts 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

well, you dont really have to trust anyone; just try for yourself and trust you own ears i guess... especially since most of the opamps here can be gotten for free or cheap, except for opa627 and hdam which costs abit more.


----------



## oldson

i guess no one can give a definite answer on the toslink quality issue then?
 the only reason i keep on about it is, i have a £30 cable still in its sealed pack!
 if there were facts to say it is no better than a cheapie cable, i would take it back for a refund. if i open it to try it, i am then stuck with it!!
 cheers anyway


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *timb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Digital audio -be it optical or coax- uses a protocol called S/PDIF. Analog data (sound) is converted to a digital stream through a method known as PCM.

 A cheaper quality TOSLINK cable could cause light to lose some brightness in transit, but that makes zero difference to the resulting sound. The light is either on or off. The fact that it makes it to the other end is all that matters. EMI/RFI doesn't affect it. As long as the light is making it from point A to point B, nothing else matters. *Nothing*.

 You're not really hitting on anything using a glass cable, because guess what, the TOSLINK collector on the Zero still uses a super cheap, bulk, Chinese, plastic/resin lenses. A standard plastic TOSLINK cable has an effective bandwidth of 5~6 MHz, more than enough for 192/48 stereo sound. (When you start getting into multichannel DTS sound, then the added bandwidth of a glass cable could be helpful.)

 Anyone who thinks they can hear an audible difference by switching out the optical cable on their Zero is fooling themselves._

 

Thanks for that.....I learn something new everyday......PCM is (pulse code modulation) I knew that one. I think I'm getting mixed up with coax. Still I think a decent quality cable does make a difference even if it's not measurable. So many things that are not measurable end up having an influence on the overall SQ of a system. It's tough to measure synergy is what I'm getting at I suppose.

 Ok, I have a question(s)....if the signal via toslink is just off and on flashes of light how is the signal reconstructed into a 20-20khz (example) sine wave sweep ? Are the on off cycles modulated at different light frequencies simultaniously then reconstructed in real time by the logic/DAC chipset ? Is the light also modulated in intensity ?

 I just don't see how a simple same intensity light beam flashed on and off can replicate so much info without some paralleled operations. 

 I'd be grateful if you could point me to a white paper link for further investigation.

 Thanks bro,

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gig* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Sorry, I think I must go._

 

You keep saying....but then another nic and a few more posts pop up....

 As they say in the country....**** or get off the pot 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## timb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for that.....I learn something new everyday......PCM is (pulse code modulation) I knew that one. I think I'm getting mixed up with coax. Still I think a decent quality cable does make a difference even if it's not measurable. So many things that are not measurable end up having an influence on the overall SQ of a system. It's tough to measure synergy is what I'm getting at I suppose.

 Ok, I have a question(s)....if the signal via toslink is just off and on flashes of light how is the signal reconstructed into a 20-20khz (example) sine wave sweep ? Are the on off cycles modulated at different light frequencies simultaniously then reconstructed in real time by the logic/DAC chipset ? Is the light also modulated in intensity ?

 I just don't see how a simple same intensity light beam flashed on and off can replicate so much info without some paralleled operations. 

 I'd be grateful if you could point me to a white paper link for further investigation.

 Thanks bro,

 Peete._

 

PCM is how it's done. That simple, same intensity beam of light is being flashed on and off _at the speed of light_. That's why no parallel operations are needed.

 The hard drive in your computer can transfer 1080p video and DTS 7 channel surround sound in real time over a serial link that's just a plain copper wire. Why would there be any trouble with (relatively) simple 192/24 stereo audio over a fiber optic link?

 I want everyone to be clear on something, I'm not trying to dump on your choice of cables. My problem is the cable zealots who make claims about their optical cables making sound "warmer" or whatever. It's simple not possible.

 If you have a poor quality TOSLINK cable, you will hear pops or drops in sound. If you don't hear that, then getting an expensive cable is a waste of money.

 Newbies come onto the forums, see this, and think that buying a new cable will be a great investment. In reality, they'd get a lot more bang for their buck by changing out caps, opamps, potentiometers and other things.

 Cables should be one of the last things you look at.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Thanks bro, excellent post. Light speed.....d'oh....44.1K samples a sec is not a lot of bandwidth on a fiber optic cable. 

 I actually agree with you about cables being the last thing considered when upgrading. Just don't use crap is my advice from here on in (crap being those really terrible 2 dollar specials, that do the job but not very well).

 Your also right about the myriad of snake oil statements bandied about by lots of cable companies. I don't think any of them are immune to spewing BS about attributes. 

 Well constructed, reasonably priced, cables for digital transfer should be all that's needed. Fair enough ? 

 I apologize for being a thicko. Usually I'm pretty quick to figure things out...must be the switch from Starkist to 9lives 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## timb

I agree. Well constructed, reasonably priced cables are perfect. I personally like TOSLINK cables that have the ends crimped on with brass rings, rather than melted or glued.

 Since I'm generally plugging into my laptop, I find these hold up a lot better under the stress of constantly being moved around.

 I also apologize for being a bit forceful. I guess zealotry can work both ways.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

For some reason I was having a hard time wrapping my noodle around the light pulse/bandwidth tech completely forgetting about the speed at which these pulses are traveling. One of those head slapper moments when you mentioned light speed....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wouldn't call it zealotry tim, your observations sound more like common sense to me. The crimped brass ring is the favorite connection for WBT & AudioQuest or it used to be on there IC's. Cold welding they call it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As for analog cabling.....

 You'll have to pry my MIT & Nordost IC's from my cold dead hands 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just kidding 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i guess no one can give a definite answer on the toslink quality issue then?
 the only reason i keep on about it is, i have a £30 cable still in its sealed pack!
 if there were facts to say it is no better than a cheapie cable, i would take it back for a refund. if i open it to try it, i am then stuck with it!!
 cheers anyway
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

30 quid is like $70, a lot of cash! I think I'd return it for a refund. The one that comes with the Zero is actually a decent quality, considering it costs nothing extra. If you can live with that, you got some extra "Music Money" to spend!!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For some reason I was having a hard time wrapping my noodle around the light pulse/bandwidth tech completely forgetting about the speed at which these pulses are traveling. One of those head slapper moments when you mentioned light speed....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wouldn't call it zealotry tim, your observations sound more like common sense to me. The crimped brass ring is the favorite connection for WBT & AudioQuest or it used to be on there IC's. Cold welding they call it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As for analog cabling.....

 You'll have to pry my MIT & Nordost IC's from my cold dead hands 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just kidding 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Hey PP,

 On the analog cables, well, I'm less sold on expensive ones than you, I think. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't use Radio Shack generics
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, but I do use a brand sold on eBay, called Cobra. They are factory made with factory ends, OFC copper, nothing too special except they have excellent shielding for their price. They are dark blue in color, with red and white color bands recessed into the ends. When I first put all of my analog systems back together (after extensive restoration), I bought enough of these to re-wire everything. My Pioneer Stack, my Yamaha Stack, both R2R's, and so on. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Out of 60+ RCA's, (mostly 3 foot and 6 foot) none were bad! They make great connections to all my equipment, and have no noise whatsoever. In the end, the average cost was in the $3-4 each range, when buying quantity. Not a bad price for a complete re-wire. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I caught the seller at just the right time too. He was offering free shipping on Cobra's, so the entire order was shipped for free. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It was a heavy sucker too! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I had enough left over, to use them with my headphone amps and mini-system too. I also have a 25 footer that I use to span the room sometimes. You'd never know you had a long one hooked up. No loss or telltale noises.

 I'll have to admit, I like the looks of some of the more expensive RCA's out there. But, I had to be practical at the same time. I don't see mine once they are hooked up and the components are sitting back in their shelving units. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Considering the cost, I've been very impressed with them.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey PP,

 On the analog cables, well, I'm less sold on expensive ones than you, I think. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't use Radio Shack generics
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, but I do use a brand sold on eBay, called Cobra. They are factory made with factory ends, OFC copper, nothing too special except they have excellent shielding for their price. They are dark blue in color, with red and white color bands recessed into the ends. When I first put all of my analog systems back together (after extensive restoration), I bought enough of these to re-wire everything. My Pioneer Stack, my Yamaha Stack, both R2R's, and so on. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Out of 60+ RCA's, (mostly 3 foot and 6 foot) none were bad! They make great connections to all my equipment, and have no noise whatsoever. In the end, the average cost was in the $3-4 each range, when buying quantity. Not a bad price for a complete re-wire. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I caught the seller at just the right time too. He was offering free shipping on Cobra's, so the entire order was shipped for free. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It was a heavy sucker too! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I had enough left over, to use them with my headphone amps and mini-system too. I also have a 25 footer that I use to span the room sometimes. You'd never know you had a long one hooked up. No loss or telltale noises.

 I'll have to admit, I like the looks of some of the more expensive RCA's out there. But, I had to be practical at the same time. I don't see mine once they are hooked up and the components are sitting back in their shelving units. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Considering the cost, I've been very impressed with them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You know Pench I'll bet those cables are excellent. The reason why I'm such a rabid MIT nut is this. You can order the cables to match the impedence (how the hell do you spell that word anyway?) of the gear you have on hand. Say the CDP has an output imp of 10K and the input on the pre in 10k as well. The MIT 330's series II's III's I got (on close out at 50 % off) a few years back could be matched in this way. They came with low,med and hi level matching networks. I just checked all my gears numbers and placed the order.

 I had used regular old, good quality IC's before that, nothing expensive, so I was a little dubious about the MIT's but did know that imp matching really does make a difference. With that in mind I waited until they arrived, installed them and then picked my jaw up off the floor. Simply night and day difference in every area you care to name over the old cables. Nothing bloated or overblown, nothing recessed or rolled off just pure wonderful,dynamic sound.

 The Nordost cables I use only for digital playback (on the analog outs) and for the speaker cables. There is something to be said for the way Nordost designs their cable, Multiple runs of small gauge high purity OFC silver plated in a teflon extrusion. 

 With planar/ribbon full range speakers I experimented with hundreds of DIY configs using OFC copper usually of thick gage. You name it I tried it, all left something out, or put too much of something in. A friend who has Maggie 3.6's and Odyssey amps (like mine) said get some double runs of single wired (not bi wire) Blue Heaven II speaker cable. You'll be amazed by what it can do for the Odyssey/Maggie combo. Well I have LFT VIIIB's which are very similar to the 3.6's so I bit......

 Before that I had MIT 750 Plus,AudioQuest Mammoth,10 DIY types, and then the Nordost.

 I've stopped even thinking of other cable...the BH II shotgun and Odyssey(+ now the Meixing MC34-AB) LFT VIIIB made a believer out of me. I wish you could come by and hear for yourself. For my system and this is the key, this combination of cabling is near perfect for my ears.......

 Is there better ? I'm sure there is but for what kind of money ? I agree with most that spending uber bucks on cables is not the right way to go about building a system. Spend the big money on speakers (head phones) first then the amp, then the source.....every thing after that is trying to get the most out of what you have, trying to balance all the trade offs in hopes of arriving at a satisfying aural experience you can live with. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Jeez I'm really babbling away tonight.....sorry about that....

 Peete.

 PS You know when the wife asks if you have a stud finder your in trouble mate


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_30 quid is like $70, a lot of cash! I think I'd return it for a refund. The one that comes with the Zero is actually a decent quality, considering it costs nothing extra. If you can live with that, you got some extra "Music Money" to spend!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Agreed, a 15 to 20 buck cable is plenty good enough.

 Peete.


----------



## ciphercomplete

OK, I just ordered the Zero with the ALPS potentiometer upgrade. First things first. How do I change the volume knob? What tools do I need?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK, I just ordered the Zero with the ALPS potentiometer upgrade. First things first. How do I change the volume knob? What tools do I need?_

 

A 25 watt soldering iron (pencil type is easier to handle than the gun type IMO) and a desoldering pump/bulb. A good clean work area, a beer and woman with large.......er....some decent quality solder, doesn't have to be fancy. If this is your first time using an iron etc, take an old garbage pcb and practive taking parts off and then practice putting them back on as cleanly and as carefully as possible. Do not lift or force anything. 

 This message will self destruct in 30 seconds........

 Peete.


 Oops, I thought you mean't the pot LOL. Oh boy. Much easier. The knob just pulls off. Do you want to change the knob for something fancy ? Lawrence IS installing the Alps for you right ?


----------



## Archimago

Don't remember seeing anything confirmatory here...

 I just hooked up the Zero to my main computer with Intel HDA motherboard audio. Converted the DXD hi-res files here: High Resolution Music DOWNLOAD services over to 24/192 via Adobe Audition.

 Tried playing the music via foobar2000 to the SPDIF.

 No problem with the coaxial input but the optical cable input doesn't play (it's fine up to 24/96). I tried with a more expensive (but still plastic Acoustic Research) optical cable. I suppose it could be the computer's fault as well...

 Anyone confirm if their Zero will play properly 24/192 thru the optical?

 BTW: My Zero (from Lawrence) arrived a few days ago came with the cheapest looking thin optical cable I have ever seen... Not in a separate retail pack but stuck inside the plastic bag containing the brief manual.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I don't the toslink receiver converter chip can handle 24/192. I think it's capped at 24/96. I could be wrong. 

 Peete.


----------



## timb

Works fine for me from a MacBook Pro.


----------



## fishkill62

Zero'ers. I'm still waiting for mine to arrive from Lawrence. Just inquiring if this Op amp is any good in the headamp section. At the moment Lawrence is supplying mine with 627s in the dac/analogue and 637s in the headamp section...

 Details of the TPA6120A2

 80 mW into 600 From a ±12-V Supply at 0.00014% THD + N 
 Current-Feedback Architecture 
 Greater than 120 dB of Dynamic Range 
 SNR of 120 dB 
 Output Voltage Noise of 5 µVrms at Gain = 2 V/V 
 Power Supply Range: ±5 V to ±15 V 
 1300 V/µs Slew Rate 
 Differential Inputs 
 Independent Power Supplies for Low Crosstalk 
 Short Circuit and Thermal Protection 
 APPLICATIONS 
 Professional Audio Equipment 
 Mixing Boards 
 Headphone Distribution Amplifiers 
 Headphone Drivers 
 Microphone Preamplifiers
 PowerPAD is a trademark of Texas Instruments.

 Description 

 The TPA6120A2 is a high fidelity audio amplifier built on a current-feedback architecture. This high bandwidth, extremely low noise device is ideal for high performance equipment. The better than 120 dB of dynamic range exceeds the capabilities of the human ear, ensuring that nothing audible is lost due to the amplifier. The solid design and performance of the TPA6120A2 ensures that music, not the amplifier, is heard.

 Thanks Chris...


----------



## fishkill62

Thanks Gig, I won't get this one then. Lawrence is currently building my Zero. He is fitting 627s to the dac/analogue section and 637s to the headphone amp.

 How do you think this setup will go, hopefully no conflicts between the similar op amps?
 Thanks Chris....


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You know Pench I'll bet those cables are excellent. The reason why I'm such a rabid MIT nut is this. You can order the cables to match the impedence (how the hell do you spell that word anyway?) of the gear you have on hand. Say the CDP has an output imp of 10K and the input on the pre in 10k as well. The MIT 330's series II's III's I got (on close out at 50 % off) a few years back could be matched in this way. They came with low,med and hi level matching networks. I just checked all my gears numbers and placed the order.

 I had used regular old, good quality IC's before that, nothing expensive, so I was a little dubious about the MIT's but did know that imp matching really does make a difference. With that in mind I waited until they arrived, installed them and then picked my jaw up off the floor. Simply night and day difference in every area you care to name over the old cables. Nothing bloated or overblown, nothing recessed or rolled off just pure wonderful,dynamic sound.

 The Nordost cables I use only for digital playback (on the analog outs) and for the speaker cables. There is something to be said for the way Nordost designs their cable, Multiple runs of small gauge high purity OFC silver plated in a teflon extrusion. 


 PS You know when the wife asks if you have a stud finder your in trouble mate 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I am just another dude starting to experiment the fiber cable and IC' for the DAC to Amplifier. I have placed an order with Blue Jeans for 3foot BJC opical cable and 3 foot LC-1 RCA. After reading the TOSLink (switching at light speed), I think the purchase is unnecessary. I hope the 'claim' about expensive TOSLINK cable doing a better job is a marketing gimmick. If the discussion was held earlier, I wouldnt make the Toslink purchase. However I hope the LC-1 is worth the money to spend.

 Now, being tubey sound lover, I prefer sweet sounding vocal and a little of dynamics for occasional pop. Therefore for the DAC section, should I go for LM4562 or DY2000. The DIY in Hong Kong told me to go for LM4562 rather than DY2000. what is your opinion?

 I found the OPA2604 is a little dull and too much bass. This OPAMP is fitted because it is cheap,said the DIY.

 Also is the CS4398 a better one than AD1852 ?

 I am no headphiler, but stereophiler.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A 25 watt soldering iron (pencil type is easier to handle than the gun type IMO) and a desoldering pump/bulb. A good clean work area, a beer and woman with large.......er....some decent quality solder, doesn't have to be fancy. If this is your first time using an iron etc, take an old garbage pcb and practive taking parts off and then practice putting them back on as cleanly and as carefully as possible. Do not lift or force anything. 

 This message will self destruct in 30 seconds........

 Peete.


 Oops, I thought you mean't the pot LOL. Oh boy. Much easier. The knob just pulls off. Do you want to change the knob for something fancy ? Lawrence IS installing the Alps for you right ?_

 


 Yeah, Lawrence is installing the POT for me. 

 The knob just pulls off? Is that common for most audio equipment? I "tried" to pull the knob off of my little dot mk III once and I got resistance so I decided back off as I did not want to damage it.


----------



## Scottyyy

Just got my Zero. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Had to steal the power cable from me DV332 though because the one supplied wasn't a UK plug. 

 Either I'm going crazy or this sounds better than my DV332 when used as an amp. Unless it's because the DAC is a lot better than my previous source, so I'm just hearing the effects of that. Can't wait to get my DV332 connected to it anyway, it should sound even better.

 What should my sampling rate be? By default it's set to 48KHz on my computer.


----------



## Archimago

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *timb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Works fine for me from a MacBook Pro._

 

timb: If you're referring to toslink (optical) 24/192 output from the MacBook Pro to Zero working, I thought the Mac toslink was capped at 24/96 as suggested by this thread... Leopard OS on MAC at 24/192


----------



## Archimago

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gig* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yup - looks cheap, sounds cheap, and it plugs cheaply too. 



 It's unbelievable how good the LME49720 + LT1358 sound in my Xenos, I think they were made for one another. I want to try this in the Zero too...I have a metal can LME49720 ready soldered on a socket._

 

gig: Yes, the pack-in optical cable is cheaply made but it is only a short length so it does do the job and in fact I prefer the thin construction on my MacBook rather than a thick length coming off the side connector.

 I disagree about the "sound cheap" part however in that even at 24/96, I don't hear any drop outs/noise - so as far as I'm concerned, it's transferring and connecting the digital signal fine. It's a freebie 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My worry was whether it was inadequate to transmit 24/192 (I'm still unclear if this can be done thru toslink).


----------



## Archimago

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Scottyyy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got my Zero. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Had to steal the power cable from me DV332 though because the one supplied wasn't a UK plug. 

 Either I'm going crazy or this sounds better than my DV332 when used as an amp. Unless it's because the DAC is a lot better than my previous source, so I'm just hearing the effects of that. Can't wait to get my DV332 connected to it anyway, it should sound even better.

 What should my sampling rate be? By default it's set to 48KHz on my computer._

 

Congrats!

 The sampling rate should be the same as the file's rate for best sound so as to avoid resampling (especially non-full multiples like 44.1 --> 48). Assuming you have mostly MP3's/WAV/FLAC/AAC originally from CD's, this should be at 44.1kHz.

 Enjoy! I'm still slowly burning this baby in and waiting for my LT opamps...


----------



## Scottyyy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Archimago* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congrats!

 The sampling rate should be the same as the file's rate for best sound so as to avoid resampling (especially non-full multiples like 44.1 --> 48). Assuming you have mostly MP3's/WAV/FLAC/AAC originally from CD's, this should be at 44.1kHz.

 Enjoy! I'm still slowly burning this baby in and waiting for my LT opamps..._

 

Yeah, mostly FLAC and the occasional mp3 encoded albums. I've set it to 44.1KHz then, thanks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm really enjoying this though. It sounds awesome. Are the stock opamps any good? I don't know if I'll be able to change them - I'm not exactly experienced with DIY stuff.


----------



## windrider

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Scottyyy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Either I'm going crazy or this sounds better than my DV332 when used as an amp. Unless it's because the DAC is a lot better than my previous source, so I'm just hearing the effects of that. Can't wait to get my DV332 connected to it anyway, it should sound even better._

 

Yes most likely its a source issue... I heard the dv332 before and i think its definitely (at least) a level above the zero amp.

 Although i guess what headphones you are using with them do make a difference too.


----------



## fishkill62

Zero'ers.
 My modded unit is on the way from Lawrence at last...should arrive in less than a week
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm keen to try it out/start roll'in op amps..

 Now I have come across this...

AUDIOTRAK DR.DAC2 Digital to Analog Converter - eBay (item 120258608404 end time May-15-08 17:45:41 PDT)

 Seems like a similar unit, with flexability, admittedly twice the price...

 What do you guys think
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cheers Chris


----------



## timb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Archimago* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_timb: If you're referring to toslink (optical) 24/192 output from the MacBook Pro to Zero working, I thought the Mac toslink was capped at 24/96 as suggested by this thread... Leopard OS on MAC at 24/192_

 

Nope: MacBook Pro: External ports and connectors

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MacBook Pro: External ports and connectors* 
_Connect external speakers, headphones, or optical digital audio equipment. The headphone / line output jack accommodates optical digital audio output, analog audio output with a 24-bit, 44.1-192 kHz D/A converter, *digital audio output up to 24-bit stereo and 44.1-192 kHz sampling rate* and supporting encoded digital audio output (AC3 and DTS). For analog headphone / line output a standard audio cable with 3.5mm metal plug should be used. For digital audio, a standard toslink cable with a toslink mini-plug adapter can be used._


----------



## ciphercomplete

This thread is insanely long and I can't read through it all for an answer to a very simple question. So here it goes.

 I am looking for a good warm opamp for the headphone section and a crystal clear opamp (LM4562?) for the dac section. Any ideas, recommendations?

 Again, I apologize if this has already been discussed but I have looked through almost 100 pages of this thread and my eyes are bleeding.


----------



## amff

Hello! Finally postman came and gave me the ZERO.
 It sounds great but i need to turn the volume low because of my low impedence AT headphones...
 I should have bough it in the winter. Summer is too hot for headphone-ers. = ="
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I have a problem: I can still hear the sound from games. Isn't SPDIF output just for PCM signals? How come the game sounds can pass through?
 Also, i can lower the volume from the windows volume mixer/foobar's volume control. Is that means the music still got processed by Windows? I wonder if there is anything wrong with my system..
 computer-(usb)-->1----(optical)--->Zero--> speakers

 note: 1= is " USB 5.1 Ch optical Controller Audio Sound Card S\PDIF "
USB 5.1 Ch optical Controller Audio Sound Card S\PDIF - eBay (item 270243431130 end time Jun-07-08 04:30:44 PDT)

 thank you for answering


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This thread is insanely long and I can't read through it all for an answer to a very simple question. So here it goes.

 I am looking for a good warm opamp for the headphone section and a crystal clear opamp (LM4562?) for the dac section. Any ideas, recommendations?

 Again, I apologize if this has already been discussed but I have looked through almost 100 pages of this thread and my eyes are bleeding._

 

For the warm opamp in the headamp, I would use LT1364 or LT1469. 

 The LT1364 is very nice in the dac also, very clear but with a touch of warmth. 

 I want to love the LT4562 (I have the LME49720, different name but same) but I just don't keep it in the dac. I find the soundstage to be rather small, and I'm having a hard time with the coloration (It turns the sound into dark purple/dark blue every single time I use it). I find it to lack punch as well, it sounds a bit tired. It's rather neutral, but not in a natural way if that makes any sense. 

 I'm not at home, and haven't been for some days, but from my memory I find the OPA627, LT1028 and LT1358 to be rather good for the dac. OPA627 has got the largest soundstage and most bass, but is rather laid back. I find the LT1028 to have very good transparancy and really like it, but I don't think it's safe to use it. The LT1358 is somewhere in between. It has a nice natural and full midrange, not harsh in any way. It didn't wow me in any way at first like the OPA627 does with the soundstage and bass, and LT1028 with the open airy transparent sound, but in the long run I have found it to be very enjoyable. It sounds a bit like LT1364 but without as much warmth. The OPA627 pushes the singer back a bit, while on LT1358 the singer is closer.

 So, my favorites for dac in no particular order:
 LT1358 - Clear, natural midrange, no major drawbacks but no immediate wow-factor.
 LT1364 - Rather large soundstage, clear, warm midrange.
 LT1028 - Good bass, neutral and natural midrange, good transparancy, clear, major drawback: Get very very very hot.
 OPA627: Largest soundstage, rather laid back, rather neutral, rather clear, good bass amount, full midrange but without a very warm coloration.


----------



## DoubleEs

My stock Zero arrived today, bought off ebay 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have a simple Q regarding Opamps, I had a brief look inside the DAC but if I'm honest, I don't really know what the hell I'm looking at. 

 So if I want to experiment with various Opamps, do I need to do any form of soldering or can these amps be popping the in/out of their sockets?

 If soldering is required, then I may just have to leave the unit alone as I've never soldered in my life.....


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoubleEs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My stock Zero arrived today, bought off ebay 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have a simple Q regarding Opamps, I had a brief look inside the DAC but if I'm honest, I don't really know what the hell I'm looking at. 

 So if I want to experiment with various Opamps, do I need to do any form of soldering or can these amps be popping the in/out of their sockets?

 If soldering is required, then I may just have to leave the unit alone as I've never soldered in my life....._

 

No soldering, the are all socketed, so just pop out pop in, but make sure you put them in the right way. The text should be the same way, as should any round dot be. Write down which way each op-amp is facing before you start is a tip of the day. They should all face the same way though.


----------



## Scottyyy

Where can I buy opamps from? I've tried some of the ones mentioned here on eBay but didn't find any at all.

 I need to sell my Darkvoice 332 so I might as well upgrad my Zero as it doesn't cost much.


----------



## Tb311

To the people who ordered the Zero on ebay how long did it take until the unit got shipped and how long did it take until you received it? I ordered mine on monday and Lawrence said he would have it out by this week and send me the tracking # its almost the end of the week and no tracking # yet. I just wanted to ask you guys first before I send him another email because from reading some of the recent post he has his hands full.


----------



## Scottyyy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tb311* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To the people who ordered the Zero on ebay how long did it take until the unit got shipped and how long did it take until you received it? I ordered mine on monday and Lawrence said he would have it out by this week and send me the tracking # its almost the end of the week and no tracking # yet. I just wanted to ask you guys first before I send him another email because from reading some of the recent post he has his hands full._

 

Ordered mine on the 28th of last month and got it today.


----------



## DoubleEs

Ordered mine on the 26th, got shipped on the 27th with tracking number, arrived today


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, Lawrence is installing the POT for me. 

 The knob just pulls off? Is that common for most audio equipment? I "tried" to pull the knob off of my little dot mk III once and I got resistance so I decided back off as I did not want to damage it._

 

Yup it just pulls.er...uh OFF...I just did it and watched the knob go flying half way across the desk 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Its a splined shaft for the regular pot. I don't know about the Alps pot's shaft (man that sounds an bit ...weird) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Pench knows for sure. I think Alps come in either form, splined or solid (shaft) Email Lawrence and ask him what type (of shaft) and diameter of knob to get for a replacement. Knobs and shafts....LOL....Man I need some sleep, gettin' punchy at 10:30 pm ? I'm a lite weight 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Parts conexxion has a nice selection of machined brass and aluminum knobs to peruse.

 Peete.


----------



## rhythmdevils

Hey guys, I finally clicked on this thread after seeing it for months here. the zero looks great! Do you still feel that it has a tube like sound to it?

 I am looking for a DAC + Preamp to drive my mackie monitors. Would this be the right thing? I am thinking that it wouldn't work because the volume knob does not work with the preamp rca outputs (the mackies don't have their own volume control)


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For the warm opamp in the headamp, I would use LT1364 or LT1469. 

 The LT1364 is very nice in the dac also, very clear but with a touch of warmth. 

 I want to love the LT4562 (I have the LME49720, different name but same) but I just don't keep it in the dac. I find the soundstage to be rather small, and I'm having a hard time with the coloration (It turns the sound into dark purple/dark blue every single time I use it). I find it to lack punch as well, it sounds a bit tired. It's rather neutral, but not in a natural way if that makes any sense. 

 I'm not at home, and haven't been for some days, but from my memory I find the OPA627, LT1028 and LT1358 to be rather good for the dac. OPA627 has got the largest soundstage and most bass, but is rather laid back. I find the LT1028 to have very good transparancy and really like it, but I don't think it's safe to use it. The LT1358 is somewhere in between. It has a nice natural and full midrange, not harsh in any way. It didn't wow me in any way at first like the OPA627 does with the soundstage and bass, and LT1028 with the open airy transparent sound, but in the long run I have found it to be very enjoyable. It sounds a bit like LT1364 but without as much warmth. The OPA627 pushes the singer back a bit, while on LT1358 the singer is closer.

 So, my favorites for dac in no particular order:
 LT1358 - Clear, natural midrange, no major drawbacks but no immediate wow-factor.
 LT1364 - Rather large soundstage, clear, warm midrange.
 LT1028 - Good bass, neutral and natural midrange, good transparancy, clear, major drawback: Get very very very hot.
 OPA627: Largest soundstage, rather laid back, rather neutral, rather clear, good bass amount, full midrange but without a very warm coloration._

 

Thanks a bunch


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhythmdevils* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys, I finally clicked on this thread after seeing it for months here. the zero looks great! Do you still feel that it has a tube like sound to it?

 I am looking for a DAC + Preamp to drive my mackie monitors. Would this be the right thing? I am thinking that it wouldn't work because the volume knob does not work with the preamp rca outputs (the mackies don't have their own volume control)_

 

If the Phone/Preamp button is on with no headphones plugged in, the volume control adjusts the pre-amp's output.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am just another dude starting to experiment the fiber cable and IC' for the DAC to Amplifier. I have placed an order with Blue Jeans for 3foot BJC opical cable and 3 foot LC-1 RCA. After reading the TOSLink (switching at light speed), I think the purchase is unnecessary. I hope the 'claim' about expensive TOSLINK cable doing a better job is a marketing gimmick. If the discussion was held earlier, I wouldnt make the Toslink purchase. However I hope the LC-1 is worth the money to spend.

 Now, being tubey sound lover, I prefer sweet sounding vocal and a little of dynamics for occasional pop. Therefore for the DAC section, should I go for LM4562 or DY2000. The DIY in Hong Kong told me to go for LM4562 rather than DY2000. what is your opinion?

 I found the OPA2604 is a little dull and too much bass. This OPAMP is fitted because it is cheap,said the DIY.

 Also is the CS4398 a better one than AD1852 ?

 I am no headphiler, but stereophiler._

 

Well the consensus is OPA627 for DAC and LT1364 for the head amp section. That being said I bought a HDAM module for the DAC and love it. I also have LT1364's,just got OPA627's and have a few others to try. The LM4562 is very clinical yet has some warmth. It's the L/R channel opamp of the Auzen Prelude SC I have in my puter. It's much better than the 2604, but that isn't saying much. I'm not all that familiar with AD opamps other than a set of AD825's I have sitting around from my CDP,in use before the up sampler module made them redundant. They are really nice IIRC. Not in the same league as the 1364/627 combo though.

 In my observations to date I feel the HDAM offers the best overall SQ, by a large margin over any opamp in the DAC section. It should be better though so that isn't too much of a surprise.

 The BJC toslink and the LC-1 is precisely what is termed,the poster children of well made cables for a reasonable cost. You have not over spent on these in the least. A very good choice IMO. Most on this forum would agree Ble Jeans cables are excellent value with top shelf parts used. A sensible purchase.


 Peete.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 In my observations to date I feel the HDAM offers the best overall SQ, by a large margin over any opamp in the DAC section. It should be better though so that isn't too much of a surprise.

 The BJC toslink and the LC-1 is precisely what is termed,the poster children of well made cables for a reasonable cost. You have not over spent on these in the least. A very good choice IMO. Most on this forum would agree Ble Jeans cables are excellent value with top shelf parts used. A sensible purchase.


 Peete._

 

For my stereo speakers, I have compared the ZERO DAC side by side with the Marantz CD-63 KI, one of the best cdp with Ken Ishiwata signature. ZERO is considered entry level, sorry to say so. The warm and sweet sounding, extended soundstage from Marantz CD-63 KI is too obvious to compare with ZERO.

 So I wonder if I were to upgrade to HDAM for the DAC (I dont need headphone), will I come close to the HIFI grade CDP such as Marantz/CEC/Rega or I might as well switch to HIFI grade DAC. 

 tks


----------



## tinseljim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhythmdevils* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys, I finally clicked on this thread after seeing it for months here. the zero looks great! Do you still feel that it has a tube like sound to it?

 I am looking for a DAC + Preamp to drive my mackie monitors. Would this be the right thing? I am thinking that it wouldn't work because the volume knob does not work with the preamp rca outputs (the mackies don't have their own volume control)_

 

Dude! That's exactly what I'm intending to do! Except I will be getting the HR824s 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 And the zero works great as a preamp for my acoustic energy sub/sat system at the moment while I sell some other things. As the OP said, just press the headphone/preamp button without headphones plugged in. 

 I have to say though that it sounds slightly clearer using it just as a DAC without the volume control. Not sure if others have confirmed this. 

 James


----------



## Jazz9

I have received my LT1364 samples from linear (thanks for the tip Penchum!), my Zero is on the way and I was wondering if some of you had tried the AD826 on the Dac?
 I stumbled on it by chance when I was looking for info on the OpA627 and some said that it was quite good and cheap.
 Any info on that?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For my stereo speakers, I have compared the ZERO DAC side by side with the Marantz CD-63 KI, one of the best cdp with Ken Ishiwata signature. ZERO is considered entry level, sorry to say so. The warm and sweet sounding, extended soundstage from Marantz CD-63 KI is too obvious to compare with ZERO.

 So I wonder if I were to upgrade to HDAM for the DAC (I dont need headphone), will I come close to the HIFI grade CDP such as Marantz/CEC/Rega or I might as well switch to HIFI grade DAC. 

 tks_

 

ccschua, I'm not trying to flame you here. I want to try and put things in perspective, so you and others will understand a few things that might not be obvious to everyone. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Zero is every bit as much of a HI FI grade DAC as any other DAC is. Those labels, Hi-Fi, Mid-Fi and Low-Fi are totally useless and have no meaning whatsoever. Some people attempt to use them to "classify" equipment and this generally causes more issues than it solves. There has never been a rule for those three labels. If you heard one of the first audio components to use the Hi-Fi label, you'd fall over laughing at how poorly it sounds compared to the cheapest audio made today. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It is highly recommended that you first try better Opamps, before spending the extra on the HDAM module. Also, the Zero's top must be removed, for the HDAM to fit in the DAC, and you can't get the top back on afterwords. (This will stop many (me too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) from trying the HDAM at all)

 The Zero may be considered entry level by some folks, but I disagree with that label, for several reasons:
 The build quality is better than entry level, the 1% parts used are above entry level, the dual mono based headphone amp is above entry level, the built in flexibility (amp/pre-amp) is above entry level, and the overall design is above entry level. Only it's price keeps it in the entry level category. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Another thing to consider, is if your Zero is completely matured yet. Many folks judge too early and then later discover their error was due to the burn-in time being cut short. Current feedback puts the burn-in time at 100 hours or more.

 Something else to think about: If the CDP you mentioned is that good, I wouldn't want to bypass it's default sound, for anything. Using it as a transport seems like a bad idea with any DAC. The Zero with better Opamps or HDAM in the DAC, would be great for "computer as a source" use, or a cheaper CDP/DVDP being used as a transport.

 I recommend you make sure yours is matured, and give the better Opamps a try. The majority here will tell you that the Zero becomes a whole different unit when you do these two things. After you have done them, then it will be time for critical listening and doing comparisons that make sense with respect to the equipment being compared. Have a good one!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jazz9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have received my LT1364 samples from linear (thanks for the tip Penchum!), my Zero is on the way and I was wondering if some of you had tried the AD826 on the Dac?
 I stumbled on it by chance when I was looking for info on the OpA627 and some said that it was quite good and cheap.
 Any info on that?_

 

I don't recall anyone posting about the AD826. It is possible that it is cheap.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jazz9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have received my LT1364 samples from linear (thanks for the tip Penchum!), my Zero is on the way and I was wondering if some of you had tried the AD826 on the Dac?
 I stumbled on it by chance when I was looking for info on the OpA627 and some said that it was quite good and cheap.
 Any info on that?_

 

Do you remember where you were when you were looking up the info on the OPA627's and came across the info about the AD826 being good and cheap?
 I wouldn't mind reading it, if you can find it. Thanks!


----------



## Jazz9

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you remember where you were when you were looking up the info on the OPA627's and came across the info about the AD826 being good and cheap?
 I wouldn't mind reading it, if you can find it. Thanks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It was just the opinions of some people on diyaudio.
 I looked in your first post to see if it was tested, it was not, so I felt like asking if some people used it.
 I didn't even receive my zero yet but I'm really excited about all the different opamps combinations I'm gonna try 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 !


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jazz9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It was just the opinions of some people on diyaudio.
 I looked in your first post to see if it was tested, it was not, so I felt like asking if some people used it.
 I didn't even receive my zero yet but I'm really excited about all the different opamps combinations I'm gonna try 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 !_

 

Cool, I'll search over there later today.

 I don't know if you read about this or not, but many of use recommend "maturing" the Zero first (100 hours), before swapping Opamps. Doing the burn-in first (with the default Opamps), gives you a reference point for comparison. This way, evaluating the different Opamps becomes a little easier and the Zero isn't going through any more changes during your evaluation. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Some can't wait, and that is cool too.


----------



## Jazz9

That's what I'll be doing.
 I'm just ordering some opamps in advance so that I can swap opamps right away after the zero is done maturing.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jazz9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's what I'll be doing.
 I'm just ordering some opamps in advance so that I can swap opamps right away after the zero is done maturing._

 

Good! You'll thank yourself later.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Any word on adapters for the HDAM opamp? Seems like it wouldn't be that hard to solder some wires on to the HDAM and then find a opamp base to plug into the DAC. Or maybe get some spare pins Like These plug those into the board and solder wire from those to the HDAM.

 That way you could lay the HDAM on its side and still be able to put the Zero's top back on.


----------



## Almoxil

It shouldn't take long until someone comes with a solution, since there's plenty of room for the HDAM inside Zero's metal case, and we have plenty of DIYers around here...


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any word on adapters for the HDAM opamp? Seems like it wouldn't be that hard to solder some wires on to the HDAM and then find a opamp base to plug into the DAC. Or maybe get some spare pins Like These plug those into the board and solder wire from those to the HDAM.

 That way you could lay the HDAM on its side and still be able to put the Zero's top back on._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Almoxil* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It shouldn't take long until someone comes with a solution, since there's plenty of room for the HDAM inside Zero's metal case, and we have plenty of DIYers around here... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That would peak my interest bigtime. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 From what PP says about his, I'm already drooling slighly.


----------



## vvanrij

Thank you so much for that link, its only the tenth time its been brought up


----------



## ciphercomplete

I would try the mod myself once my Zero arrives but I don't have an HDAM.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Does anyone know if Lawrence is selling HDAMs and for how much? Burson Audio is selling HDAMs on Ebay for $150.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *justonepost* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WOW; it's more than a good DAC (my SVDAC05 cost me $129 + shipping).


 For that price, plus the price of the Zero, you could simpy buy a superior DAC - there are quite a few, around $300._

 

Uh yeah you could but there are no $300 DACs with Discrete opamps.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would try the mod myself once my Zero arrives but I don't have an HDAM.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Does anyone know if Lawrence is selling HDAMs and for how much? Burson Audio is selling HDAMs on Ebay for $150._

 

Lawrence told me himself that the Burson HDAM and the one he sells is the same one from the exact same factory in China. I talked to Burson and they all but confirmed it, but didn't openly say it (since they charge more for the same damn thing is my guess). The module I have looks exactly the same as the one pictured on the Burson Audio web page. I think Lawrence is 100 % correct.

 The dual channel module for the Zero or any stage that takes a single dual channel opamp dip package..is 80.00 US. Lawrence sells them separate as well so email him and ask.


 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *justonepost* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tweakers' Asylum - RE: A wonderful opamp! - Mule - June 07, 2008 at 11:04:34_

 

Dude.....


 Peete.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lawrence told me himself that the Burson HDAM and the one he sells is the same one from the exact same factory in China. I talked to Burson and they all but confirmed it, but didn't openly say it (since they charge more for the same damn thing is my guess). The module I have looks exactly the same as the one pictured on the Burson Audio web page. I think Lawrence is 100 % correct.

 The dual channel module for the Zero or any stage that takes a single dual channel opamp dip package..is 80.00 US. Lawrence sells them separate as well so email him and ask.


 Peete._

 


 Well damn if I knew they were so cheap I would have told him to throw one in with my zero order.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For my stereo speakers, I have compared the ZERO DAC side by side with the Marantz CD-63 KI, one of the best cdp with Ken Ishiwata signature. ZERO is considered entry level, sorry to say so. The warm and sweet sounding, extended soundstage from Marantz CD-63 KI is too obvious to compare with ZERO.

 So I wonder if I were to upgrade to HDAM for the DAC (I dont need headphone), will I come close to the HIFI grade CDP such as Marantz/CEC/Rega or I might as well switch to HIFI grade DAC. 

 tks_

 

I don't know for sure, try it and make up your own mind. To be fair the CDP you mention is 4 x the cost of the Zero so apples to oranges. I always found the mid 90's Marantz CDP's were good starting points for mods. OOTB they leave quite a bit to be desired as most budget gear does. However it does quite a few things right........BTW my main CDP is Ah Njoe Tjoeb with all the upgrades (except the new super clock) and it's based on the Marantz CD 4000. Like I said these players have potential if your willing to tap it for not much coin and can handle the DIY aspect of it.

 Everything is a trade off, it's the ability to build a system that has complimentry attributes to mitigate the shortcomings that is hard if not impossible to do by review alone. Let your ears be the arbiter of your audio truth. BTW the CD-63 KI is excellent with Tentlabs XO 3 = PSU upgrade and a few tweaks to the main PSU and some caps. There is a huge mod community for that CDP in particular. Give it a shot you won't be sorry. 200 bucks put into the KI will transform it into a music machine that will put a grin on your face a mile wide 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You'll wonder why you hadn't done it earlier.

 That being said the Zero/HDAM combo is pretty darn good IMHO. Latest chip set and class A discrete stage......like I said earlier give it a whirl, it's pretty impressive.

 Please also keep in mind, this IS for a *budget* head fi set up, for the most part, since this is Head-Fi after all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any word on adapters for the HDAM opamp? Seems like it wouldn't be that hard to solder some wires on to the HDAM and then find a opamp base to plug into the DAC. Or maybe get some spare pins Like These plug those into the board and solder wire from those to the HDAM.

 That way you could lay the HDAM on its side and still be able to put the Zero's top back on._

 


 Lawrence sent me an extra dip socket when I ordered my Zero/HDAM. That was really nice of him since I didn't ask for an extra.
 I haven't decided yet on how to use it, but have a good preliminary idea that in practice is turning out to be a major fiddly PITA to assemble......I've tried a couple different ways so far (for the idea) but it hasn't been successful,....yet. I don't give up very easily.

 I'll crack this nut......matter of time really...or someones else's superior idea trumps it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lawrence sent me an extra dip socket when I ordered my Zero/HDAM. That was really nice of him since I didn't ask for an extra.
 I haven't decided yet on how to use it, but have a good preliminary idea that in practice is turning out to be a major fiddly PITA to assemble......I've tried a couple different ways so far (for the idea) but it hasn't been successful,....yet. I don't give up very easily.

 I'll crack this nut......matter of time really...or someones ele's superior idea trumps it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Did you get your OPA627? I'm very interested in the OPA627 vs HDAM mini-review
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks,
 Henmyr


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well damn if I knew they were so cheap I would have told him to throw one in with my zero order._

 


 I posted all this info a while back in this thread ....I'm sorry you missed it CC. 

 I think it's only 10 or 15 bucks to ship it. It's not that big. Heres the measurements 4.3 cm x 2.3 cm x 2 cm. 

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you get your OPA627? I'm very interested in the OPA627 vs HDAM mini-review
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks,
 Henmyr_

 


 Sure did Henmyr, picked them up Friday evening from the post office and have them in the DAC section right now burning in. I know it's a little bit of a controversy about the whole opamp burn in thing but I figure it's only fair to let them settle for 50 hours before listening critically. I'll have the review done fairly soon. Originally I said Wed of next week, but god threw me a curve ball.....see below. I can still meet that timetable if everything works out without a hitch....

 That and the fact that the central AC,in the house, went haywire.. so I'm trying to get that fixed, looked after and it's 100 degrees F outside with 80 % humidity. Brutal.
 80 degrees in the house and rising.....gonna be a sweaty couple of days.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Dang tube amps are throwing off heat like crazy to boot 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *justonepost* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just an example:

 Some of the most high-end digital audio players, like the Accuphase DP700 integrated player and the DP800 transport + DA800 DAC, use JRC 5532 and 2114 opamps. They cost over 20000 euro the DP700, and almost twice as much the 800.


 I enjoy my (cheap) AD826 in my low-budget DAC. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

If the Accuphase "house sound" is your cup of tea then by all means. 

 **It's not the components but how they are implemented in the overall topology that makes all the difference **. 

 Price is not always the yardstick to measure SQ, (or anything for that matter) by. Surely you know this by now ?


 Don't get caught up in the " because it uses all the best components made, it has to be the best sound " Often times that philosophy, although admirable and should be aspired to, if not thoroughly thought out and implemented with utmost care ends up a high priced paper weight with impressive specs but no aural appeal whatsoever. All IMHO.

 This is the last time I answer a post like this in the Zero thread. Andrea.

 Peete.


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is the last time I answer a post like this in the Zero thread. Andrea._

 

LMAO !!


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *justonepost* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just an example:

 Some of the most high-end digital audio players, like the Accuphase DP700 integrated player and the DP800 transport + DA800 DAC, use JRC 5532 and 2114 opamps. They cost over 20000 euro the DP700, and almost twice as much the 800._

 

And they could all arguably be made better by using a discrete opamp instead.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Whats the deal with this Andrea person?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Whats the deal with this Andrea person?_

 

I dunno 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Reminds me of this old saying, twisted around Peete style...

 Arse Holes are like obstinate erroneous opinions, they can be backed up,but usually aren't, they can be open to new ideas, but are closed tight, and when it comes time for a graceful exit, advice is ignored leading to a nasty mess 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.

 PS The ignore list has it's one and only member. More to come ? Hope not.


----------



## CountChoculaBot

Been experimenting a bit with D2000's. 

 It seems to me that LT1364 + LT1361 isn't the best for these headphones. To me it's too dark, too muddy, and the bass can be loose at times.

 I only tried one or two different combinations, but 3x LM4562 (I should probably try LT1469 + LM4562... but I'm lazy =\) seems to rectify my problems with the former combination. 

 3x LM4562 with these 'phones doesn't seem to make the treble more fatiguing, either; earlier, with less hours on the Zero/D2000, I would've said they did. However, after so many hours the Zero/D2000 combo seems to have its treble under much better control than before.

 Oh yes, can anyone post a pic of their internals if purchased from Lawrence? The caps on mine from Shenzhen Audio Store (I think?) are suspiciously small...


----------



## oldson

hi
 thinking of getting another LD (tube) amp to add to my zero/LDmkv setup!
 are RCA splitters the only option? and are they any good? can only find cheap ones, do the better cable companies (like chord or qed) make them?
 thanks


----------



## Almoxil

These OPA627APs in the DAC, plus LME49720s in the headamp are the nicest combination with my AKG K271S so far. Sound is fantastic: plenty of detail, still the headphones got some respectful punchy bass. My OPA627BPs in a BrownDog adapter arrived already, but I'm loving the sound so much as it is now that I'm lazy to switch the APs for the BPs... maybe tomorrow... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Setup: *iRiver SlimX iMP-550 PCDP > run-of-the-mill 1/8" to TOSLINK optical cable > Zero > AKG K271S*.
 Music: *prog/hard rock, prog/goth/black/death metal*.
 Sound enhancements/EQ: *none*.
 Feet: *tapping*.
 Head: *banging*.


----------



## fishkill62

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lawrence sent me an extra dip socket when I ordered my Zero/HDAM. That was really nice of him since I didn't ask for an extra.
 I haven't decided yet on how to use it, but have a good preliminary idea that in practice is turning out to be a major fiddly PITA to assemble......I've tried a couple different ways so far (for the idea) but it hasn't been successful,....yet. I don't give up very easily.

 I'll crack this nut......matter of time really...or someones else's superior idea trumps it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Peete, is there any chance of seeing a pic of the Lawrence/burson/hdam installed in your unit. I'm also interested in ordering same from Lawrence, with the dip socket etc. Also I believe from Burson you can get these hdam's fitted with short extension wires, so you don't have to mount vertically. 

 Thanks Chris (my Zero should arrive next week, cant wait..)


----------



## fishkill62

Forgot to ask...Peete do you know if Lawrence can suppy the hdam with the extension wires and dips sockets fitted?
 Thanks Chris.....


----------



## rhythmdevils

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tinseljim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dude! That's exactly what I'm intending to do! Except I will be getting the HR824s 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And the zero works great as a preamp for my acoustic energy sub/sat system at the moment while I sell some other things. As the OP said, just press the headphone/preamp button without headphones plugged in. 

 I have to say though that it sounds slightly clearer using it just as a DAC without the volume control. Not sure if others have confirmed this. 

 James_

 

nice one! So do you think it will be a good match for the mackies? I love these babies, they really sound great. So I guess I should get the stepped attenuator then, eh? 

 Anyone looking to sell their zero?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fishkill62* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Forgot to ask...Peete do you know if Lawrence can suppy the hdam with the extension wires and dips sockets fitted?
 Thanks Chris....._

 


 He doesn't supply them with the extensions. 

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fishkill62* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Peete, is there any chance of seeing a pic of the Lawrence/burson/hdam installed in your unit. I'm also interested in ordering same from Lawrence, with the dip socket etc. Also I believe from Burson you can get these hdam's fitted with short extension wires, so you don't have to mount vertically. 

 Thanks Chris (my Zero should arrive next week, cant wait..)_

 


 Hi Chris,

 I just tried my old digital POS out and it's borked. Until I get a new one, no pics. Sorry about that. I have pics that Lawrence sent me but they are of the HDAM on it's own. PM me with the your email address and I'll send them to you if you want.

 Peete.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ccschua, I'm not trying to flame you here. I want to try and put things in perspective, so you and others will understand a few things that might not be obvious to everyone. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 I recommend you make sure yours is matured, and give the better Opamps a try. The majority here will tell you that the Zero becomes a whole different unit when you do these two things. After you have done them, then it will be time for critical listening and doing comparisons that make sense with respect to the equipment being compared. Have a good one! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well I have followed this thread from #1 to now. Some of the early thread discussion I have forgotten. My ZERO is up running since March.

 I do agree with Peete that the Marantz CD67 KI (uses HDAM) can be a good run of the 300 bucks invested. I will be buying the DY2000 and give it a try. 
 Well I have tried in the DAC section (initial run)
 LT1361 - harsh and bright, this is definitely out.
 LT1364 -quite presentable
 LME49720 - narrow soundstage
 LM 4562 - laid back sound, quite like 2604
 LT 1057 - this is warm, and clinical. (I dunno why so many people use the word clinical, but I do find this special)
 2xOPA827 on browndog adapter - quite like 627
 2xOPA 627 on browndog adapter - very detailing


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I have followed this thread from #1 to now. Some of the early thread discussion I have forgotten. My ZERO is up running since March.

 I do agree with Peete that the Marantz CD67 KI (uses HDAM) can be a good run of the 300 bucks invested. I will be buying the DY2000 and give it a try. 
 Well I have tried in the DAC section (initial run)
 LT1361 - harsh and bright, this is definitely out.
 LT1364 -quite presentable
 LME49720 - narrow soundstage
 LM 4562 - laid back sound, quite like 2604
 LT 1057 - this is warm, and clinical. (I dunno why so many people use the word clinical, but I do find this special)
 2xOPA827 on browndog adapter - quite like 627
 2xOPA 627 on browndog adapter - very detailing_

 

Aren't LME49720 and LM4562 supposed to be the same op-amp, or have I got it all wrong?

 EDIT: So, which one do you like best?


----------



## tinseljim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhythmdevils* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_nice one! So do you think it will be a good match for the mackies? I love these babies, they really sound great. So I guess I should get the stepped attenuator then, eh? 

 Anyone looking to sell their zero? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Haven't tried it with the Mackies. But I think that coupled with a nice little tube preamp they would sing! That would add some warmth for sure. They're still my favourite monitors after hearing them in the studio 10 years ago. I like them even better than the Genelecs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This is mostly for music though rather than recording purposes. And I thing they're a great bargain!


----------



## DoubleEs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I have followed this thread from #1 to now. Some of the early thread discussion I have forgotten. My ZERO is up running since March.

 I do agree with Peete that the Marantz CD67 KI (uses HDAM) can be a good run of the 300 bucks invested. I will be buying the DY2000 and give it a try. 
 Well I have tried in the DAC section (initial run)
 LT1361 - harsh and bright, this is definitely out.
 LT1364 -quite presentable
 LME49720 - narrow soundstage
 LM 4562 - laid back sound, quite like 2604
 LT 1057 - this is warm, and clinical. (I dunno why so many people use the word clinical, but I do find this special)
 2xOPA827 on browndog adapter - quite like 627
 2xOPA 627 on browndog adapter - very detailing_

 

Are all the above replacements for the OPA2604 or are some of them for the HP section or the Zero?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I have followed this thread from #1 to now. Some of the early thread discussion I have forgotten. My ZERO is up running since March.

 I do agree with Peete that the Marantz CD67 KI (uses HDAM) can be a good run of the 300 bucks invested. I will be buying the DY2000 and give it a try. 
 Well I have tried in the DAC section (initial run)
 LT1361 - harsh and bright, this is definitely out.
 LT1364 -quite presentable
 LME49720 - narrow soundstage
 LM 4562 - laid back sound, quite like 2604
 LT 1057 - this is warm, and clinical. (I dunno why so many people use the word clinical, but I do find this special)
 2xOPA827 on browndog adapter - quite like 627
 2xOPA 627 on browndog adapter - very detailing_

 

Great! Thanks CC,

 I also agree with the HDAM is superior concept. I'm pretty sure it is that way in almost all equipment.

 Your impressions of the Opamps looks pretty much in line with many others I have seen here, so that's a good thing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you have time, double check those LM4562/LME49720 chips. They are supposed to be the same thing (I never tested both). This could be another rumor though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That little LT1364 just has it in spades, doesn't it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If it wasn't for the OPA627's, I'd be using it in the DAC. When I did further testing of the Opamps in the DAC section, I used a MKIVse and MKII and my T-amp mini-system to evaluate. The only Opamp that scored high with all three, was the OPA627's. If I stuck to the tube amps, the LT1364 did very well. It didn't do so hot with the T-amp, and I've since been told that this is common for T-amps.

 I'm hoping the HDAM PP is reviewing for the DAC section, will turn out to be superior in both the DAC output and what it does for the headphone amp section. That would be "ultimate" in my book. We'll have to get that clearance issue figured out though.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi
 thinking of getting another LD (tube) amp to add to my zero/LDmkv setup!
 are RCA splitters the only option? and are they any good? can only find cheap ones, do the better cable companies (like chord or qed) make them?
 thanks_

 

The other option is to use a pre-amp, integrated amp or receiver. You would bring in the Zero's output on AUX, then hook each headphone amp to a tape loop. I've been doing this for a while, and it works great. I don't even have to have the pre-amp powered on! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Looking at the tape loops, the input on each headphone amp is hooked to the REC OUT, and the output is hooked to the PLAYBACK. They you just power up the headphone amp you want to use, make sure the pre-amp has AUX as the selected source, and you are good to go.


----------



## vvanrij

Lol Penchum, you'v got a stalker


----------



## vvanrij

You already stalked a mod right? How old are you anyway?


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Aren't LME49720 and LM4562 supposed to be the same op-amp, or have I got it all wrong?

 EDIT: So, which one do you like best?_

 

Well this is only initial run, i need 50 hours or so for run in. at this moment, the high is still not smooth yet. the vocal sounded unpolished. 

 At this moment, I found the LM 4562, LT 1364 quite presentable. I am using tube amp hybrid to drive my stereo speakers. I like the sweet sounding of LM 4562, and later I will be back with LT 1057.

 each step that I try, I found the improvement diminishing. but I hope this HDAM really brings the whole DAC to another level of implementation. perhaps 30%.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoubleEs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are all the above replacements for the OPA2604 or are some of them for the HP section or the Zero?_

 

Only meant for DAC. I am stereophiler, not headphiler.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Chum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just because you haven't ever tried the LT1358 and the AD826. Both fare better than the LT1364, for my ears, and my music (Tom Waits, Leonard Cohen, Nick Cave, Lucinda Williams... you know that).

 At any rate, people, the OPA211 and OPA827 are more affordable and newer in technology BB opamps than the OPA627, that sound better to boot.


 Back to listening to some Music. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I agree with the OPA 827. Should start with 827 first. 

 How is the AD826 being implemented, can u give more info.


----------



## ccschua

I have a very fundamental question to clarify. 

 How do I know if my cdp is feeding the same information as compared to using computer optical out/foobar 2000 (since u can up sample or play a 24 bit recording). 

 that is to say, if I record the cd into lossless format, upsample to 24 bit (possible ????) and feed via optical out to DAC, will I get improvement.


----------



## Shlonglor

What's the mW rating on this?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shlonglor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What's the mW rating on this?_

 






Just when I thought we had everything found out!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I have no idea of the mW rating. Anyone else??
 I checked my Spec's sheet, but it wasn't listed.


----------



## DoubleEs

What would be the max price I should pay for a pair of OPA 627AP? I've been offered $32 for a pair plus the adapter shipped to the UK. Is this OK or is it too much?


----------



## ciphercomplete

Has anyone tried the OPA637?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone tried the OPA637?_

 

I have some coming for review, so we shall see!


----------



## Pidgeon

Hello, I'm new and I've got some questions:

 1) After having upgraded Zero's OpAmps, could it sound better than an Auzentech X-Fi Prelude or a M-Audio Audiophile 192 PCI sound cards?

 2) What is HDAM? Why many people are using it with Zero?

 3) Could I obtain good results using the Zero as a PreAmp for TA 10.1?

 4) Generally, there are PC sound cards that could provide a better audio quality than the Zero?

 5) Is the Zero DAC better than the Trends Audio USB DAC?

 6) Let's suppose I'm using digital out of my SB Live! 5.1, connecting it with a Zero DAC. Would it be the same thing doing that with a digital out of a Creative X-Fi, in terms of final audio quality?


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pidgeon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 1) After having upgraded Zero's OpAmps, could it sound better than an Auzentech X-Fi Prelude or a M-Audio Audiophile 192 PCI sound cards?
_

 

I have not heard this specific card but...
 Internal sound cards, no matter how expensive or good they are, are subject to noise from inside the computer case. This fact alone gives any external dac a leg up on any internal dac or soundcard (as long as they have equal specs of course).


----------



## Archimago

Well, with all the OPA627BP talk, I've got a couple of these babies on order with the adapter.

 A quick question: If I do the OPA627 DAC / LT1364 headphone amp combination, does the 1364 still heat up a bit for a couple heatsinks?


----------



## Hardflip

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pidgeon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_1) After having upgraded Zero's OpAmps, could it sound better than an Auzentech X-Fi Prelude or a M-Audio Audiophile 192 PCI sound cards?_

 

I have an Asus Xonar D2X and an X-Meridian and the Zero beats them both. The opa627bp's widen the lead for the Zero.

 The Zero is more detailed and balanced with better seperation of instruments. I looked at the Zero before I got the Xonar, but at the time the Zero was difficult to get. They both cost about the same. I regret not just getting the Zero at that time because it is a much better solution.

 I agree with ciphercomplete, the level of noise inside a computer does hinder any internal soundcard's DAC ability.


----------



## Leto Atreides II

Interesting. I tried to get an Asus Xonar, but the seller was backordered, which led to my Zero purchase. It just went through customs in San Francisco, finally.

 Is there a little more concise guide than this 244 page monstrosity for choosing an opamp, should I go that route? In my limited experience with opamps (not audio), the more expensive, the better.


----------



## czero

Anybody experience background hissing noise on the zero when theres no music being played? The hissing can be heard starting from the 10 o'clock position and becomes more evident at 12o'clock onwards. (Tried on both hd595 and sr325i)

 I've also tried the zero dac section only and output on a seperate speaker amplifier and theres still the background hiss on my headphones and an additional high pitch hiss on top of the usual speaker hiss from high volume when using speakers.

 Anybody else also experiencing this?

 *edit: I also noticed sometimes the bass and treble is imbalanced on the left and right side for some songs.

 I emailed lawrence and he said he'll help me change the dac board. Anybody knows how much it costs to just send back the dac board (I'm situated in Singapore). Not sure if its worth the trouble.


----------



## vvanrij

this is normal, but as you might have already found out, the 595 en 325i are low impedance headphones, if you would try to listen to some music on the mentioned 12o'clock position, your ears will be seriously damaged. So the conclusion is, the hiss is only audible @ volumes you should never listen at. The imbalance between L and R is also been askes before, and it should only take place on extreme low volumes, it has to do with the pot, and is also normal. You shouldn't be able to hear it at normal volume, if you do, there is something wrong.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shut!* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To be only used in the DAC if you want to make a barbecue. That aside...is it worth it...?_

 

lol. Point taken. I'll stick with the OPA627s.


----------



## czero

Hi vvanrij,

 Do you have the same background hiss when using the zero with your 325i?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_lol. Point taken. I'll stick with the OPA627s._

 

Consider the source first. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 We have several Zero owners who have a stick-on heat sink on their LT1364, in the DAC position. The last word was that this worked out fine. However, I believe the OPA627's sound better for DAC output, so I'll never use the LT1364 in that position. If I did, you bet I'd have a cooler on it.


----------



## vvanrij

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *czero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi vvanrij,

 Do you have the same background hiss when using the zero with your 325i?_

 

Yes, and please read my post again. :headcoveragewoodiedsr325ismile:


----------



## freeone-j

vvanrij, how is the Zero pushing your sextetts, I don't recall you following up on that post?


----------



## vvanrij

It does a decent job, but my LD MKIV sounds much better with it. From my own 'experience' so far, it seems to do a better job with low impedance headphones (like my grado's), though it could also be that my grado's just overall less 'scale-up' compared to my other headphones.


----------



## freeone-j

Thanks vvanrij: Anyone else want to shime in on the question of 600ohm phones?


----------



## Penchum

Didn't someone try an impedance adapter with the Zero, to solve the noise issue? Seems like I read that before... hummm.


----------



## Penchum

Just an update for those that are curious as to what I'm up to. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've got some OPA637's coming, to check out against the OPA627s.

 Today, I ordered the Creative XFi Xtreme Audio Notebook Express card 64, to test out on my ASUS notebook, against the built in Realtek HD Audio Chip.

 Both should be fun, so I'm looking forward to it. After that, I may order one of those PC Link SPDIF USB devices and see how it compares to the other two. I think many users would like to know the outcome of this one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 All testing will be with my Zeros, so hopefully everyone will benefit in one way or another.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just an update for those that are curious as to what I'm up to. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've got some OPA637's coming, to check out against the OPA627s.

 Today, I ordered the Creative XFi Xtreme Audio Notebook Express card 64, to test out on my ASUS notebook, against the built in Realtek HD Audio Chip.

 Both should be fun, so I'm looking forward to it. After that, I may order one of those PC Link SPDIF USB devices and see how it compares to the other two. I think many users would like to know the outcome of this one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 All testing will be with my Zeros, so hopefully everyone will benefit in one way or another. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I would really appreciate a comparison like that
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for the good job


----------



## fishkill62

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just an update for those that are curious as to what I'm up to. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've got some OPA637's coming, to check out against the OPA627s.

 Today, I ordered the Creative XFi Xtreme Audio Notebook Express card 64, to test out on my ASUS notebook, against the built in Realtek HD Audio Chip.

 Both should be fun, so I'm looking forward to it. After that, I may order one of those PC Link SPDIF USB devices and see how it compares to the other two. I think many users would like to know the outcome of this one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 All testing will be with my Zeros, so hopefully everyone will benefit in one way or another. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Pench,
 My Zero should arrive here any day from Lawrence, fitted with 627s in the dac/analogue section and with 637s fitted to the head amp. Are you going to try your 637s in the same config as this, or on the dac/analogue section?

 Thanks Chris....


----------



## tru\head

what's the deal with you?


----------



## Tb311

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just an update for those that are curious as to what I'm up to. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've got some OPA637's coming, to check out against the OPA627s.

 Today, I ordered the Creative XFi Xtreme Audio Notebook Express card 64, to test out on my ASUS notebook, against the built in Realtek HD Audio Chip.

 Both should be fun, so I'm looking forward to it. After that, I may order one of those PC Link SPDIF USB devices and see how it compares to the other two. I think many users would like to know the outcome of this one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 All testing will be with my Zeros, so hopefully everyone will benefit in one way or another. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I would be interested in this review since I was thinking if I should upgrade my stock realtek HD on my mobo to a an X-Fi card. Let us know how it works out. Maybe an update on the first page or a new thread even?


----------



## kwekeugene

Sounds interesting. Thanks?

 By the way, what's your story? What did you or didn't do that got you multi-banned?


----------



## vvanrij

lol, just get the hell out of here, we don't want you, whats not to get??

 Anyway, Penchum, adding a impedance adapter wouldn't solve the 'noise', because the noise increases with the volume, its not floor noise.


----------



## czero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, and please read my post again. :headcoveragewoodiedsr325ismile:_

 









I read your review on the woodied 325i 1 week ago and proceeded to get 1 pair for myself from cody 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 can't wait to lay my hands on it.

 I just tried the 325i on my creative xfi soundcard and switched onto max volume, cant hear any of these background hissing. Weird... is this just a Zero circuit fault?

 On a side note, I have a noob question. Why does increasing volume on windows itself increase the volume of the output sound coming out from the headphones via the dac/amp. Since the signal to the dac is just information, and the only way of increasing the volume should be just through the amp. Unless the computer is preamping ?


----------



## vvanrij

You just love to be hated don't you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





! Cheers.

 @Czero, thank god someone took my review of the woodied 325i seriously, your in for a real treat. Do me a favor and also write a review about it, that way I don't look crazy about being 100% in love with it.

 The digital information provided to your DAC, also contains 'volume'. This is offcourse not 'real' volume, because it is digital, but more like a volume 'tag', it tells the dac how loud to play it.

 Its not a real 'fault' of the zero that it produces noise, every SS amp produces noise, but better ones just produce it @ higher volumes (signal-to-noise ratio). Can you hear the noise @ normal listening volume's on your 325i? I don't ever go over 30% on my Zero when listening to my 325i's, and the noise is than *barely* audible, thus not a problem. The only time it gives trouble is when your source's output is of low volume (not line-level). In that case you should fix the source's output level.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aaaab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here it is: letting hypocrisy show itself.

 I don't care about all the people enjoying LT opamps being my "merit", and not Penchum's. It's the hypocrisy and the ignorance of some people around here what I'm truly concerned about - especially those that group people around themselves, the pretended "guides".

 Are you satisfied with the clarification? So I hope. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

So you ARE the SAVIOR then. The one they spoke about in Revelations. I suspected this. Please share more of your wisdom and lead us away from the opamp false prophets.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fishkill62* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pench,
 My Zero should arrive here any day from Lawrence, fitted with 627s in the dac/analogue section and with 637s fitted to the head amp. Are you going to try your 637s in the same config as this, or on the dac/analogue section?

 Thanks Chris...._

 

I'm going to try the DAC section, to see what the DAC output is like for my separate amps, then see how it does with the LT1364's in the headphone amp. I really have no idea of what to expect.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tb311* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would be interested in this review since I was thinking if I should upgrade my stock realtek HD on my mobo to a an X-Fi card. Let us know how it works out. Maybe an update on the first page or a new thread even?_

 

That's a pretty good idea, or even update the review to show them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Thanks!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_lol, just get the hell out of here, we don't want you, whats not to get??

 Anyway, Penchum, adding a impedance adapter wouldn't solve the 'noise', because the noise increases with the volume, its not floor noise._

 

Ow! So this isn't due to the lower impedance then. Ok, I got mixed up somehow. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 With all the interruptions going on, it's no wonder.


----------



## ciphercomplete

I thought the noise issues had to do with the cheap stock POT which is the reason I am having Lawrence upgrade mine before he ships it. Or are we talking about something else?


----------



## czero

I dont think its got to do with the pot cause I've tried the DAC section with a seperate amp and the background hiss is still there. 

 Well then again, I don't really listen to the zero at such high volumes where the hiss is noticeable. I just sorta bugs me that there is some relatively inaudible hiss at the low volumes.

 I'll post some impressions when i get the woodies for the 325i... Although I dont really think theres gonna be much difference in sound, afterall I bought it for aesthetic reasons
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 who knows I may be in for a surprise


----------



## vvanrij

@chiphercomple, the pot has only to do with the imbalance between L and R on low volumes.

 @czero You will be, because I didn't buy it for aesthetic reasons! It makes a huge improvement on the sound!!


----------



## ccschua

LME 49720 gives very thick warm vocal but the bass lacks clarity. You can not hear the acoustics and bass notes really well. Very relaxing at vocals, e.g. if you just listen opera/soprano and no instrument is playing in the background. This opamp is definitely out for stereo speaker.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *czero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I dont think its got to do with the pot cause I've tried the DAC section with a seperate amp and the background hiss is still there. 

 Well then again, I don't really listen to the zero at such high volumes where the hiss is noticeable. I just sorta bugs me that there is some relatively inaudible hiss at the low volumes.

 I'll post some impressions when i get the woodies for the 325i... Although I dont really think theres gonna be much difference in sound, afterall I bought it for aesthetic reasons
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 who knows I may be in for a surprise
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

When you say the noise is still there, using the DAC outputs to another amp, this makes me think the noise might originate from the source. What are you using there??


----------



## czero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When you say the noise is still there, using the DAC outputs to another amp, this makes me think the noise might originate from the source. What are you using there??_

 

I dont think its a source problem. I've played a range of music files such as mp3(128-320 bitrate), mpc and flac. In addition, the noise is obvious when not playing music at all and cranking it pass the 12 o'clock position.

 *edit: It should be the dac issue. Although I'm not sure if its like what vvanrij said, a SNR(signal noise ratio) issue as according to Wikipedia:

Signal-to-noise ratio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 SNR = [(A signal)/(A noise)]^2, where A refers to RMS amplitude

 Since the SNR is a constant, Asignal is directly proportionate to Anoise.

 Increasing the volume = Increasing Asignal = Increasing Anoise

 What I find weird is that the Zero starts producing noticeable background noise at around midpoint section of the knob.


----------



## tru\head

There's two opamps on the headphone board, one blocked behind some cables. I assume that is that one for each channel? trying 1469 in both of those right now and 1364 in the dac. 

 edit: 

 well first impression (using dt770) It has increased detail over the stock opamps & the bass seems tightened and reduced. I will wait a while for them to burn in though before I write more. And damn these chips get hot, but I don't think they will reach their limit of 70C. If i can touch them for 10 seconds or so then they are probably under 60C. I also can hear some slight reverb added, not sure what is causing it.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *czero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I dont think its a source problem. I've played a range of music files such as mp3(128-320 bitrate), mpc and flac. In addition, the noise is obvious when not playing music at all and cranking it pass the 12 o'clock position.

 *edit: It should be the dac issue. Although I'm not sure if its like what vvanrij said, a SNR(signal noise ratio) issue as according to Wikipedia:

 snip

 What I find weird is that the Zero starts producing noticeable background noise at around midpoint section of the knob._

 

Ok then, I'm just trying to put what you have discovered into perspective, so I understand it better. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Consider the following with respect to your situation, and see if it helps clear things up a bit.

 When I use the Zero's built-in headphone amp, I've never heard amp noise with the signal. If I stop the signal and crank up the volume knob, there will be amp noise at some point higher up. That point, is much higher than the volume I consider "max listening volume".

 When I use the Zero's DAC output (fixed) to one of my separate amps, I've never heard amp noise or DAC noise, at listening levels. If I stop the signal and crank up my separate amp, I'll hear it's amp noise way up the scale too. That point being way above "max listening volume".

 There is a common mis belief that says "without playing a source, turn the volume knob up past listening levels. If there is no noise, this is a sign of a good amp." All amps make some measure of noise. The important part of this is how much noise does the amp introduce to listening levels. Most amps do not introduce "audible" levels of noise at max listening levels.

 The other thing to remember about amps, is that they do not care what you feed them. Everything you feed them, will get amplified. If they are feed a little noise, they will amplify it along with everything else, and what was little, is now bigger. If you feed them a signal from a highly compressed MP3, they will gladly amplify it and reveal to you just how nasty highly compressed MP3's can sound. Such is the nature of the beast. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A good reality check, is to take a track from a CD you are very familiar with, and make 2 files. One lossless and one at 128. Play them both and listen to them using the Zero's headphone amp. The differences should be obvious.

 If all of this rings true with your Zero, then you don't have a problem. If noise is introduced at listening levels, by the amp, then you may have a problem of some type. Usually, it is found out that there is no problem, and I hope this is the case for you too.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tru\head* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There's two opamps on the headphone board, one blocked behind some cables. I assume that is that one for each channel? trying 1469 in both of those right now and 1364 in the dac. 

 edit: 

 well first impression (using dt770) It has increased detail over the stock opamps & the bass seems tightened and reduced. I will wait a while for them to burn in though before I write more. And damn these chips get hot, but I don't think they will reach their limit of 70C. If i can touch them for 10 seconds or so then they are probably under 60C. I also can hear some slight reverb added, not sure what is causing it._

 

I wouldn't run the LT1364 in the DAC very long, without some kind of cooler attached. This is why many of us have moved to the OPA627's in the DAC. The heat issue has been beat to death and the only sure thing was that the heat can't be all that good for the Zero itself.


----------



## czero

Hey Penchum,

 Thanks for your input, it sure clears things up.

 I guess my unit is fine.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *czero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Penchum,

 Thanks for your input, it sure clears things up.

 I guess my unit is fine.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Ok, cool. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was pretty sure that was the case. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's a great little unit that has it where it counts.


----------



## ccschua

Today finally the bluejeans cable arrive.

 I swapped out the stock fiber optic and in the new Mitsubishi ESKA fiber optic cable which is made of Plastic optical fiber (POF). Now who says fiber optics will not give u a difference.

 Then swapped in the LC1 RCA, which is basically low capacitance RCA cable. this cable give good separation and deeper bass.

 Finally my opamp of the day is LM 4562 .

 With the new cables and LM 4562, I get the best separation now, it just gets more musical now. The vocal is warm and airy. the bass has more attack and extension.

 I hope the DY2000 (and later on LT 1358) will not disappoint me... hope so.


----------



## Jazz9

Is the heat issue in the dac a problem only with lt1364 or with all linear opamps (lt1358,1028...)?

 PS: I just received my Zero


----------



## dlosborne

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wouldn't run the LT1364 in the DAC very long, without some kind of cooler attached. This is why many of us have moved to the OPA627's in the DAC. The heat issue has been beat to death and the only sure thing was that the heat can't be all that good for the Zero itself._

 

Yup, I ended up JB welding a small heatsink to all my opamps (LT1364 in the DAC and LT1469s in the amp). I can hold my finger to them all day long; warm but not even as hot as the VR heatsinks in the headphone amp section.

 (I also put a thin film of thermal grease on the top of the chips to make a good contact the the heat sink.)

 Sorry for the quality; I only had a cell phone camera for this shot.


----------



## Lamora

Does any one know if this dac/amp is any good for gaming? I have no room for a decent soundcard so figured i could use the digital out on my onboard sound (SoundMAX) and the Zero to plug a decent set of headphones in.


----------



## coredump

I've compared it to my X-Fi XtremeGamer and it's about the same. The X-Fi (gaming mode) magnifies distant sound which is really nice but the Zero probably gives more accurate directional sound when up close. I'd say it's an even trade-off. I pretty much only use the Zero now. Competitive gaming considerations aside the Zero will simply make every thing sound better.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jazz9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the heat issue in the dac a problem only with lt1364 or with all linear opamps (lt1358,1028...)?

 PS: I just received my Zero 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

So far, I think its only the LT1364 in the DAC.


----------



## Penchum

My X-Fi Xtreme Audio Notebook ExpressCard arrived this afternoon from mwave.com. I decided I'd play dumb, and I followed the giant cheat sheet that comes with it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My ASUS notebook was running, so I installed it in the express slot and loaded the drivers. One re-boot later and I had to go to the control panel and specify I wanted the X-Fi Xtreme Audio Notebook ExpressCard in SPDIF mode to be the default audio device.

 First quick impression: All the creative bells and whistles were off by default, so I found some of my favorite lossless files, turned on my Zero, set to optical and DAC output, plugged my HD-650s into my MKIVse and pressed play. THANK GOODNESS!!! It sounds like my desktops X-Fi Xtreme Music card's SPDIF out! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Since January, I have been trying to identify the difference between my desktops SPDIF out and my notebooks HD chip SPDIF out. All I could come up with was; The notebooks HD chip SPDIF out sounds more narrow field, and perhaps a little compressed. Everything is there, just not in the right place with the proper emphasis in the dynamics. To generalized, huh. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So, the burning question in my mind, has been: Can I get my notebook to sound like my desktop does? I can now say, YES! It can be done! I'll keep testing it this week and see if I can post something more substantial this weekend, comparing the built-in HD audio with the X-Fi Xtreme Audio Notebook ExpressCard.


----------



## tru\head

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wouldn't run the LT1364 in the DAC very long, without some kind of cooler attached. This is why many of us have moved to the OPA627's in the DAC. The heat issue has been beat to death and the only sure thing was that the heat can't be all that good for the Zero itself._

 

i see what you mean, theres some plastic bits next to the socket and they look like they could melt pretty easy. 

 radioshack is so stupid, they didn't even know what a heatsink is.. but I have some motherboard chipset sized ones, and some VGA ram cooler bits which i could stick on with some arctic silver 5 i guess.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Since January, I have been trying to identify the difference between my desktops SPDIF out and my notebooks HD chip SPDIF out. All I could come up with was; The notebooks HD chip SPDIF out sounds more narrow field, and perhaps a little compressed. Everything is there, just not in the right place with the proper emphasis in the dynamics. To generalized, huh.

 So, the burning question in my mind, has been: Can I get my notebook to sound like my desktop does? I can now say, YES! It can be done! I'll keep testing it this week and see if I can post something more substantial this weekend, comparing the built-in HD audio with the X-Fi Xtreme Audio Notebook ExpressCard.
_

 

hey penchum, does your notebook's default chip offer KHZ options? I have the default azalia codec type chip on my motherboard and it lets me select 44.1, 48, 96.. ect, I suppose people with on-board chips that don't have this option suffer degraded sound quality because the board resamples some of their music. I believe azalia codec requires that... where as the older AC97 specification does not and has a locked KHZ spec.

 This is pretty in-depth but it details the exact spec of the azalia codec, which all boards with built in "HD" audio over the last few years conform to
http://download.intel.com/standards/...HDAudio_03.pdf



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jazz9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the heat issue in the dac a problem only with lt1364 or with all linear opamps (lt1358,1028...)?

 PS: I just received my Zero 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

this is a good topic, I can say that the 1057 doesn't get hot at all in the dac compared to the 1364. the 1469s are pretty hot in the headamp section though.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tru\head* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey penchum, does your notebook's default chip offer KHZ options? I have the default azalia codec type chip on my motherboard and it lets me select 44.1, 48, 96.. ect, I suppose people with on-board chips that don't have this option suffer degraded sound quality because the board resamples some of their music. I believe azalia codec requires that... where as the older AC97 specification does not and has a locked KHZ spec._

 

Mine has the Realtek HD audio chip, which in Vista, only has 44.1 & 48. It didn't seem to matter much, which one I used, they both seemed to suffer a little.


----------



## tru\head

i found the spec sheet on the stock Ti OPA2604 if anyone with electrical know-how wants to do a spec comparison with replacements.
http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/opa2604.pdf


----------



## Jazz9

At what volume do you set your optical out?
 Right now I'm just leaving it set to max and using the advanced limiter plugin in foobar to prevent clipping (I'm not really sure if it's effective, I just hope it does not decrease the sq).
 Some say you should put it to max, some to 50%, i even heard 75-80% so I don't know what to think...


----------



## tru\head

i have no volume control on optical out itself, it's greyed out. but i can control the wave volume from programs such as itunes. i usually leave it at 90% from the source, but i haven't heard any clipping at 100%... since it's just passing the digital signal I don't think clipping is an issue.


----------



## Currawong

Just a thought on the heat from Zero -- I have my MKV on top of it, which I noticed was getting considerably warm. The MKV is basically a huge heatsink anyway, so this wasn't a surprise, but it was obviously coming from the Zero. I've put a 120mm fan next to both, plugged into a spare USB port so it spins quietly, and everything runs cool enough now.


----------



## Emanuel

A little question..the spdif output should be set as the main output every time with every software (winamp, foolbar, zoom player ecc..), or is always turned on? And you can use optical signal in vst processing softwares (like cubase)?
 Thanks for any info


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jazz9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_At what volume do you set your optical out?
 Right now I'm just leaving it set to max and using the advanced limiter plugin in foobar to prevent clipping (I'm not really sure if it's effective, I just hope it does not decrease the sq).
 Some say you should put it to max, some to 50%, i even heard 75-80% so I don't know what to think..._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tru\head* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i have no volume control on optical out itself, it's greyed out. but i can control the wave volume from programs such as itunes. i usually leave it at 90% from the source, but i haven't heard any clipping at 100%... since it's just passing the digital signal I don't think clipping is an issue._

 

I have read that it makes a difference whether you are using XP, Vista or OSX. The common theme seems to be keeping the volume at Maximum. I just kind of went along with this, without further testing, and it seems to work just fine so far (I have Vista). Since we are bypassing the sound card's onboard amp, clipping shouldn't be an issue at max volume either. If you get a chance, and you have XP or OSX, test the maximum vs lower settings and see if any differences are noted. There was something more about keeping the volume at maximum, but I don't remember what it was. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Does anyone remember??


----------



## Shlonglor

Does anyone know if there's a difference in audio quality when using the PClink USB-optical thing compared to a sound card's digital out to the Zero's digital in? The Zero comes with that anyway and I don't have a digital cable.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shlonglor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone know if there's a difference in audio quality when using the PClink USB-optical thing compared to a sound card's digital out to the Zero's digital in? The Zero comes with that anyway and I don't have a digital cable._

 

The Zero comes with an Optical cable, so you should be good to go. I hope to shed some light on the differences between built-ins, add on cards, and USB based sound devices in the near future. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have two of the three now, so I'm going to order the PC link soon.


----------



## indianbraker

Just bought the unit for LAWRENCE on ebay and im not sure if its in working condition. Read the manual and still getting no sound. Can anyone give me detailed directions on how to properly set it up for the coaxial line in.


----------



## DoubleEs

How have you got your Zero connected?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indianbraker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just bought the unit for LAWRENCE on ebay and im not sure if its in working condition. Read the manual and still getting no sound. Can anyone give me detailed directions on how to properly set it up for the coaxial line in._

 

You need to tell us what is your source, like computer sound card, or DVD player, that kind of thing. Details always help.


----------



## mannnu81

just got mine, 6 days after purchase. works fine !


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indianbraker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just bought the unit for LAWRENCE on ebay and im not sure if its in working condition. Read the manual and still getting no sound. Can anyone give me detailed directions on how to properly set it up for the coaxial line in._

 

If you are using a computer as your source you should know that some soundcards can only output digital OR analog, i.e it can't output both at the same time.


----------



## indianbraker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you are using a computer as your source you should know that some soundcards can only output digital OR analog, i.e it can't output both at the same time._

 

sorry for not being descriptive enough but i was testing the unit with a 4g ipod through the headphone jack. The wire that connected it was a mini to RCA that i bought from radioshack. I connected everything up and powered it up after and selected the coaxial button...no sound...then i pressed the preamp button...still no sound. I tried every combination i could think of afterwards and still got the same results


----------



## windrider

anyone here who owns both the zero and the heed canamp? How would you rate the amp section of the zero compared with the heed canamp?

 am wondering if it is worth it to fork out money for the canamp; not sure if its going to offer significant improvement over just zero dac/amp.


----------



## indianbraker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you are using a computer as your source you should know that some soundcards can only output digital OR analog, i.e it can't output both at the same time._

 

sorry for not being descriptive enough but i was testing the unit with a 4g ipod through the headphone jack. The wire that connected it was a mini to RCA that i bought from radioshack. I connected everything up and powered it up after and selected the coaxial button...no sound...then i pressed the preamp button...still no sound. I tried every combination i could think of afterwards and still got the same results


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indianbraker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sorry for not being descriptive enough but i was testing the unit with a 4g ipod through the headphone jack. The wire that connected it was a mini to RCA that i bought from radioshack. I connected everything up and powered it up after and selected the coaxial button...no sound...then i pressed the preamp button...still no sound. I tried every combination i could think of afterwards and still got the same results_

 


 The inputs on the Zero only accept a digital signal via the optical or coaxial. You are attempting to use an analog signal out of the ipod into the digital in on the Zero...won't work...


----------



## indianbraker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trapper32* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The inputs on the Zero only accept a digital signal via the optical or coaxial. You are attempting to use an analog signal out of the ipod into the digital in on the Zero...won't work..._

 

soo...how would i go on about connecting it to my computer? is there any way to make it work with an ipod....adaptors ect...


----------



## moonwalker239

there is no way to have zero work with an ipod, coz it s a DAC, not a standalone amp, you can connect to your comp using optical or coaxial out from your soundcard, or buy an usb-optical converter to use, cheaper and easier


----------



## fishkill62

Modders..
 I got my Zero two days ago from Lawrence fitted with -

 - 627s in the dac/analogue section..
 - 637s on the headphone board
 - the upgrade of an Alps volume pot.

 So far the dac out section works great with my ME pre/power amps. This I'm happy with. The sound compares well with my Harmon HD970 cd player/dac.

 With the headphone section I have problems. Initially I was getting intermitent signal supply, (which when working was great) on the right channel from this board and now none at all out of the right channel. I suspect the cause could either be -
 - the 637 op amp is loose on the right channel or
 - a dry solder defect in the Alps fitting?
 I mainly suspect the solder as the intermitent sound occured when rotating the pot. I'm going to investigate tomorrow & attempt a fix.

 Also I notice that when you touch the top of the case a small vibration can be felt, perhaps the dac boards clock? I'll have a go at fixing this with some glu-tack on the clock, which I've read is a good mod?

 Your thoughts? Thanks Chris.........


----------



## ccschua

Just now I tried using computer optical out to DAC instead of using CDP, i cant find any difference. I used foobar2000 and since the music file is 44.1kHz, I cant go any higher, say 24bit. It is music recording that determines the source right.

 So now I am wondering whether will you get any difference if comparing normal CD transport USD 300 vs USD 1500 CD transport.

 If no difference, then I should concentrate to get a better DAC right.


----------



## indianbraker

just ordered trend audios UB-10 to get a clean digital ouput from the USB of my pc. just wondering though....it seems that there are two opamps on the amplifier section...(thats the one near where the phones plug in right?) lol and am planning to replace them with LM4562. But do i need two to replace both or is there one in particular that i have to replace. o ya opa 627s are going in the dac section.(the big one right near back of the unit right?)


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indianbraker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_just ordered trend audios UB-10 to get a clean digital ouput from the USB of my pc. just wondering though....it seems that there are two opamps on the amplifier section...(thats the one near where the phones plug in right?) lol and am planning to replace them with LM4562. But do i need two to replace both or is there one in particular that i have to replace. o ya opa 627s are going in the dac section.(the big one right near back of the unit right?)_

 

You need to change both, one for each channel.


----------



## dacavalcante

Hi guys, a little back in time I had asked you about a hiss problem I have over 44khz with ZeroDAC.

 Today I bought a ESI Julia to replace my old Audiophile 2496.
 And guess what ?!?! Hiss problem above 44khz was gone.....

 So it was just a sound card problem.... Zero DAC is fine.. =]

 I really don't know if there's any difference when using 2496 Coax. out and Juli@ Coax. out, because both are bit perfect and the signal shouldn't be touched by them..... but I really have noticed some interesting differences between them, for good


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys, a little back in time I had asked you about a hiss problem I have over 44khz with ZeroDAC.

 Today I bought a ESI Julia to replace my old Audiophile 2496.
 And guess what ?!?! Hiss problem above 44khz was gone.....

 So it was just a sound card problem.... Zero DAC is fine.. =]

 I really don't know if there's any difference when using 2496 Coax. out and Juli@ Coax. out, because both are bit perfect and the signal shouldn't be touched by them..... but I really have noticed some interesting differences between them, for good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That's interesting. Who knows what the problem might have been. Could have been a bad cap or resistor on the Audiophile card. Jamaicon, a few years back had major problems with it's caps failing in motherboards etc....just a wild guess.

 Glad the Zero is working great for you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Just an FYI for those waiting on the HDAM/OPA627 mini review.

 I'm almost finished. Should be up in a few more days. I decided to review the head phone output as well so it doubled the size of the thing. I have 8 pages of notes so far, so this review will be very detailed.

 Had to take a break between head amp and DAC sections to allow my memory to clear as to not influence the second part with what I heard from the first series of evaluations. Does that make sense ? 

 Also dealing with the AC repair drones from a giant faceless corp. I think it's finally fixed after the third visit from the Tech....major PITA.

 What a week.....


 Peete.


----------



## ccschua

Tks to those who introduce LT 1358 for DAC section, a big THANK YOU. The LT 1358 beats LM 4562 hands down. 

 Initial LT 1358 review is awesome. Compared to LM 4562, LT 1358 is very silky smooth, mellow and warm. LT 1358 is more polish at the mid and high edges, while the LM 4562 is too revealing and sharp. LT1358 low freq attack and punch is controlled and not the sort to shake the glass. 

 This LT 1358 makes my listening so soothing, that I almost doze off.

 Next on my list review list 2x LT 1028 on browndog and DY2000.


----------



## Jazz9

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tks to those who introduce LT 1358 for DAC section, a big THANK YOU. The LT 1358 beats LM 4562 hands down. 

 Initial LT 1358 review is awesome. Compared to LM 4562, LT 1358 is very silky smooth, mellow and warm. LT 1358 is more polish at the mid and high edges, while the LM 4562 is too revealing and sharp. LT1358 low freq attack and punch is controlled and not the sort to shake the glass. 

 This LT 1358 makes my listening so soothing, that I almost doze off.

 Next on my list review list 2x LT 1028 on browndog and DY2000._

 

I too have lt1358 samples (along with some others) that I haven't tested yet (still burning in the zero with stock opamps), and the description you give of them might fit my preferences.
 Right now I only have around 15 hours on the zero so it's far from being mature, but I find the sound to be slightly aggressive and that's why I won't get opa627 for now.
 Of course my impressions could surely change with time.
 The lt1358 seems to be smoother than lm4562 but is it still detailed enough with good dynamics?
 What would be a good complement for lt1358 in the amp?

 There's another opamp that seems to be interesting, the ad843:
Notes on Audio Op-Amps
 Did someone try this one?


----------



## DoubleEs

Guys, I need some advise 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My Op-Amp have just arrived along with the adaptor. Is there a correct way of inserting the op-amp with the adaptor to the Zero or can I insert it any way?


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jazz9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I too have lt1358 samples (along with some others) that I haven't tested yet (still burning in the zero with stock opamps), and the description you give of them might fit my preferences.
 Right now I only have around 15 hours on the zero so it's far from being mature, but I find the sound to be slightly aggressive and that's why I won't get opa627 for now.
 Of course my impressions could surely change with time.
 The lt1358 seems to be smoother than lm4562 but is it still detailed enough with good dynamics?
 What would be a good complement for lt1358 in the amp?

 There's another opamp that seems to be interesting, the ad843:
Notes on Audio Op-Amps
 Did someone try this one?_

 

The stock opamp OPA 2604 is more laid back and warm, without much detail. 

 LT 1358 detail depends on your system. For my system, the dynamics and detail is quite acceptable. If you use it to drive a difficult speaker, it could face some problems.


----------



## Jazz9

So two lt1028 in the dac would be an even better solution than lt1358?


----------



## vvanrij

Ahhhhh crap, again someone with <10 posts giving advanced tips on opamps.......... I smell a rat!


----------



## vvanrij

Haha, nice way to turn things around


----------



## Jazz9

Are those the good heatsinks to use with opamps?
SELECTRONIC ::: L'univers électronique :::


----------



## Almoxil

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoubleEs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Guys, I need some advise 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My Op-Amp have just arrived along with the adaptor. Is there a correct way of inserting the op-amp with the adaptor to the Zero or can I insert it any way?_

 

The dimple or dent on the surface of the ICs *MUST* be aligned to the corresponding markings on the printed circuit board. If not, the opamp or the Zero may be damaged.

 The orientation marking on Zero's PCB is similar to the yellow ones on the BrownDog adapter below. You'll see it as soon as you remove the original opamp from the socket.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's interesting. Who knows what the problem might have been. Could have been a bad cap or resistor on the Audiophile card. Jamaicon, a few years back had major problems with it's caps failing in motherboards etc....just a wild guess.

 Glad the Zero is working great for you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Peete._

 

Yeah, who knows.... I'm pretty happy now, great upgrade going from 2496 to Julia........ now, it's time to move to the next step of my upgrade journey... Moving from HD-555 to HD-650....

 There is a topic on how much money Head-Fi already made you spend.... well... since I've met you guys, I went through my sound blaster with phillips SBC HP-250 headphones to 
 Phillips SBC HP-250 -> Sennheiser HD555 
 sb live amp to -> diy cmoy
 sb live -> Audiophile 2496 
 diy Cmoy -> Zero DAC
 Audiophile 2496 -> Julia........ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This is a long quest, I've been on it since august of 2006... (ha! WOW players be jelous).

 Hopefully the next one will be:
 Sennheiser HD555 -> Sennheiser HD650
 and 
 Zero DAC amp -> Little DOT MK III
 Maybe 
 HD650 Stock Cable -> HD650 aftermark Cable...

 Probably I'll have this set up by the end of the year....

 After That........ who knows......? It's just too far away still.... because the next step after that will be just too expensive....

 Thank you man!


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Broken car* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes...possibly.


 It's not only a matter of absolute quality of the opamp, but, like some "experts" sometimes overlook, a matter of synergy between the parts. In particular, synergy between the DAC chip and the buffer opamp. 

 With the CS4398 DAC, the LT1028 is fantastic and better sounding than the LT1358 (and all the other LT chips) without a doubt. In fact the Zhaolu D3 too is sold in this DAC-opamp configuration.

 However, the AD1852 has a somewhat thinner and more ethereal sound than the CS4398, which might lead to a less subjectively convincing sound if you choose the LT1028 over the LT1358. You just have to trust your ears.


 And then there's the stability matter - if you solder two LT1028 on a Browndog, whether DIP or SMD, there's a better chance that it'll be stable than what will be if you use one of those adapters with two sockets on them, that only further add parasitic inductance and resistance, thus contributing to the instability of the more 'critical' opamps (another one being the AD797)._

 

Hi Brokencar,

 Everyone has the right to bring out their opinions and feelings about the experience they go through, be it right or wrong, time will tell. 

 LT 1029 is confirmed being used in the Zhaolu D3.

 LT1028 x 2 on browndog adaptor is it stable on DAC section ? What please tell me what is the precautions.

 LT 1028 is similar to LT 1057 with more substance and air [quote: source from lawrence]. I have yet to try it.

 My feeling for the DAC section which is great

 LT 1358
 LM 4562
 LT 1057
 DY2000, LT 1028 <- yet to try


----------



## fishkill62

dacavalcante,
 Thanks for use input re your soundcard upgrade. I'm currently running an M audio 2496 and wouldnt mind trying that Julia card. 
 What improvements did you find with the Julia?
 Thanks Chris


----------



## 4EvrChaser

Howdy ,

 I finally finished reading from page 001 to this page. So, now I think I am ready to pull the trigger on one of these.
 I have sent Lawrence an email asking for OPA627BP for the DAC section and upgrading the volume pot to the Alps. He replied in less than 30 minutes. In his reply he only listed the OPA627AU. I remember back around page 300 that Penchum stated that he could not hear any difference between these two. Are there any real pro / con of going with either one of these?

 Thanks in advance.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fishkill62* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_dacavalcante,
 Thanks for use input re your soundcard upgrade. I'm currently running an M audio 2496 and wouldnt mind trying that Julia card. 
 What improvements did you find with the Julia?
 Thanks Chris_

 

To tell you the truth I'm a little suspect to talk about since I've waited for 2 weeks Julia after selling my 2496..... so.. it was 2 weeks without headphone and using onboard sound and speakers...

 If this is not my pure impression,
 What I found was a deeper bass and highs were brought a little more to life.....
 I really can't tell you the exactly difference...
 It's as if sound have more life now....
 Instruments do have a little more life like sound...
 Sometimes I got the impression that the card was using some reverberation EQ, but I guess it's just a more detailed sound stage....
 There's a live acoustic I use to watch... that the band uses 3 guitars.... it's very clear now which one plays what, and their sound difference....

 Something I do know for sure was improved, was stereo saparation, even I've just picked it up (yesterday, so there wasn't time for burn in, as I do beleive on it), some instruments just seemed to "walk" through the sound stage... there isn't this problem anymore, they stay well positioned on their place...

 To make a short resume, on what I think I've got with Julia:
 + bass (improved bass... not the much, but different)
 + highs (improved highs, bringing a sort of more life to the music, more energy)
 + sounstage (this one is definitely improved)
 + fidelity (instruments sound more like in real life, piano specially)

 You really won't say "Wow, night and day difference!"
 But you'll sure say. "Cool!"

 Well... As I said... I really don't know if it was just an impression.... because...
 On both I use Digital coax. out.... using foobar and Asio...... so it's bit perferct....
 I really don't know if a sound card digital out have any influence on the sound consedering it's bit perfect... what do you guys think ?


 DaC


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ahhhhh crap, again someone with <10 posts giving advanced tips on opamps.......... I smell a rat!_

 


 It's getting tiresome.....well, time for another addition to the 
 ignore poster list.


 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, who knows.... I'm pretty happy now, great upgrade going from 2496 to Julia........ now, it's time to move to the next step of my upgrade journey... Moving from HD-555 to HD-650....

 There is a topic on how much money Head-Fi already made you spend.... well... since I've met you guys, I went through my sound blaster with phillips SBC HP-250 headphones to 
 Phillips SBC HP-250 -> Sennheiser HD555 
 sb live amp to -> diy cmoy
 sb live -> Audiophile 2496 
 diy Cmoy -> Zero DAC
 Audiophile 2496 -> Julia........ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This is a long quest, I've been on it since august of 2006... (ha! WOW players be jelous).

 Hopefully the next one will be:
 Sennheiser HD555 -> Sennheiser HD650
 and 
 Zero DAC amp -> Little DOT MK III
 Maybe 
 HD650 Stock Cable -> HD650 aftermark Cable...

 Probably I'll have this set up by the end of the year....

 After That........ who knows......? It's just too far away still.... because the next step after that will be just too expensive....

 Thank you man! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Your going to love the HD650/MK III combo with the Zero.

 I doubt you'll be upgrading for quite some time after that. Sounds great.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *4EvrChaser* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Howdy ,

 I finally finished reading from page 001 to this page. So, now I think I am ready to pull the trigger on one of these.
 I have sent Lawrence an email asking for OPA627BP for the DAC section and upgrading the volume pot to the Alps. He replied in less than 30 minutes. In his reply he only listed the OPA627AU. I remember back around page 300 that Penchum stated that he could not hear any difference between these two. Are there any real pro / con of going with either one of these?

 Thanks in advance._

 

Nope 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Tough to tell the difference, and if Pench says there is no SQ diff, than you can take that to the bank my friend 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Welcome to the Zero owners club.......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete


----------



## 4EvrChaser

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nope 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Tough to tell the difference, and if Pench says there is no SQ diff, than you can take that to the bank my friend 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Welcome to the Zero owners club.......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete_

 

Howdy,

 If there is really no difference and no pro / con between the AU and BP.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Then...
 Thank you for the nice welcome to the Zero club.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Sending Paypal payment now.


----------



## ccschua

For the DAC section.

 Just slot in the 2xLT 1028 in browndog. Found the opamp not stable, you can hear the hissing sound and the opamp is so bloody hot.

 Also Tried the LT 1469, the vocal is quite sharp at the edges. You can hear the Ssss instead of Sshhh. 

 Looks like LT 1358 is here for the tube lover.


----------



## Penchum

The outside temperatures here have risen drastically in the last 4 days, so like clock work (and Murphy's law), my A/C system started giving me trouble on Wednesday night.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 One service call and visit later in the day, and my 20 year old A/C unit was given it's last rights.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It seized up and died on Friday morning, just as the A/C crew arrived at the house to install a completely new A/C system. They lent me a portable A/C unit, to keep one room cooler (sort of 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) for us to sleep in Friday night, and they came back and finished the install around noon Saturday (today).

 So, I haven't had time to test the Creative X-Fi expresscard further. Sleeping in the heat made me sick, so I'm going to bask in the new, efficient and expensive A/C for the rest of the weekend, until I feel better. My wife is sicker from it than I am, so I'll have to be helping her some too.

 I'll try to post something tangible early in the week. I also received a care package of items to test with the Zero, so news on that will be coming shortly thereafter. Have a good one!


----------



## chengzhe

Zero was punished for copying during the zhaolu D1.3


----------



## fishkill62

Thanks for for the informative review dacacalvante. It sounds like a good improvement on the M audio 2496. 

 Can you please explain how you run it using Foobar and Asio to make it bit perferct? At the moment Im only using Windows Media player.

 Thanks Chris....


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fishkill62* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for for the informative review dacacalvante. It sounds like a good improvement on the M audio 2496. 

 Can you please explain how you run it using Foobar and Asio to make it bit perferct? At the moment Im only using Windows Media player.

 Thanks Chris...._

 

Replied using pm


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your going to love the HD650/MK III combo with the Zero.

 I doubt you'll be upgrading for quite some time after that. Sounds great.

 Peete._

 

That's what I think..... maybe after that, I'll go for electroacoustic headphones...

 So.... I first need to graduate and get a real job and avoid having kids to do that


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chengzhe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Zero was punished for copying during the zhaolu D1.3_

 

I'm pretty sure that as a representative of Zhaolu, your post has little value here. Any one of us can see ALL of your posts, so conclusions are easy. Have a great day!


----------



## MinotaurUK

Rather than arguing over whether it is or isn't a copy, how about some comments from impartial owners who have both comparing and contrasting the two?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MinotaurUK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Rather than arguing over whether it is or isn't a copy, how about some comments from impartial owners who have both comparing and contrasting the two?_

 

It is just ANDREA again. Please ignore him. There were a few comparisons earlier on, but I don't remember the model numbers. Anyway, the Zero did pretty well, considering it cost less and had a better headphone amp by default, so no one thought too much on the subject.


----------



## Archimago

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is just ANDREA again. Please ignore him. There were a few comparisons earlier on, but I don't remember the model numbers. Anyway, the Zero did pretty well, considering it cost less and had a better headphone amp by default, so no one thought too much on the subject. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Jeez, this Andrea "person"(?) keeps popping up... We need a FAQ about this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 I'm loving the ZERO currently with LT1469 (DAC) / LT1364 (amp) currently with my Audio-Technica ATH-M50's. Tried the LT1057 in the DAC and was underwhelmed by what seemed to be the bass and treble "sucked" out resulting in a dark mid-range sound.

 Hopefully my OPA627's from tube_buyer arrives in a couple days to have a taste of OPA627/LT1364 goodness 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## katanka

Who is the Andrea dude and what is his beef with the LT1358 ?


----------



## vvanrij

Its like I said, anyone with <10posts giving opamp recommendations in this thread is Andrea. He's got no life, and somehow is very persistent on letting us all know.


----------



## Kake

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chengzhe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Zero was punished for copying during the zhaolu D1.3_

 

Does anyone care to elaborate?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For the DAC section.

 Just slot in the 2xLT 1028 in browndog. Found the opamp not stable, you can hear the hissing sound and the opamp is so bloody hot.

 Also Tried the LT 1469, the vocal is quite sharp at the edges. You can hear the Ssss instead of Sshhh. 

 Looks like LT 1358 is here for the tube lover._

 

I believe you are right on the LT1028's and the LT1469 in the Zero's DAC. The LT1028's sounded like crap, and the LT1469's had mixed highs and the dynamics were smaller.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Archimago* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jeez, this Andrea "person"(?) keeps popping up... We need a FAQ about this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 I'm loving the ZERO currently with LT1469 (DAC) / LT1364 (amp) currently with my Audio-Technica ATH-M50's. Tried the LT1057 in the DAC and was underwhelmed by what seemed to be the bass and treble "sucked" out resulting in a dark mid-range sound.

 Hopefully my OPA627's from tube_buyer arrives in a couple days to have a taste of OPA627/LT1364 goodness 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




._

 

The LT1057 in the Zero's DAC, sounds very bad. Try this little experiment, and see if you like it: Put the LT1364 in the DAC and the LT1469's in the headphone amp, and give it a listen. There should be a marked improvement vs. the other way around (I hope). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The OPA627's from tube_buyer will be great! Have a good one!


----------



## vvanrij

Ok, so 'it was punished', do you honestly think that *anyone* care's??? And All this crap about the LT1028?? It sounds like crap!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, so 'it was punished', do you honestly think that *anyone* care's??? And All this crap about the LT1028?? It sounds like crap!_

 

Amen, Roger that, X2, spot on.


----------



## dlosborne

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The LT1057 in the Zero's DAC, sounds very bad. Try this little experiment, and see if you like it: Put the LT1364 in the DAC and the LT1469's in the headphone amp, and give it a listen. There should be a marked improvement vs. the other way around (I hope). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The OPA627's from tube_buyer will be great! Have a good one! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

This is the set up I have been using to run my RS-1s and I have to say that I am so happy with it, I epoxied heatsinks to the opamps and screwed the case back up. 

 If a small wad of cash falls in my lap, I may chase down some 627s and drop my extra 1364s in the amp, but for now I am doing what this was made for...listening to music! (And it sounds great.)


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, so 'it was punished', do you honestly think that *anyone* care's??? And All this crap about the LT1028?? It sounds like crap!_

 

I do not completely agree. From my testing, I think that the LT1028 is rather good, and if it was safe to use, I would do even more testing. Since Penchum didn't like it, it might not be very good with Sennheisers, as I belive thats the only brand he has (nothing wrong in being a fan of only one brand though). I find it to be good enough to still be interesting for the Beyers/Grados/AD2K I've tried it with.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dlosborne* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is the set up I have been using to run my RS-1s and I have to say that I am so happy with it, I epoxied heatsinks to the opamps and screwed the case back up. 

 If a small wad of cash falls in my lap, I may chase down some 627s and drop my extra 1364s in the amp, but for now I am doing what this was made for...listening to music! (And it sounds great.)_

 

I also use the LT1469 in the amp with RS1 and find it to be a very good pairing. For dac I mostly use OPA627 (do not know if the are they fake or not??? They do sound very very good though).

 EDIT: One thing I like about the LT1028 is the to my ears lack of warmth. If a person wants warmth, than maybe he will indeed think that the LT1028 suck.


----------



## ccschua

For the most interesting part, I went to buy 4d(lotto, number forecast or what so ever). I bet 1358, 1469, 4562, and guess what I got the price for that 1469. 

 Sorry digress. I am still burning in the so many opamp that I have. I just wonder how to make the 1028 unity gain stable. This time dont fool around, you almost fry my 1028.

 Hope to hear the review on HDAM fast. Do you think we can get this HDAM from China rather than Burson.


----------



## Jazz9

Do the LT1364 need heatsinks even in the headphone amp?
 I think I'll first try lt1358 in the dac+lt1364 in the amp when my zero's burn in is over and if I'm not satisfied I'll get the opa627 (I'll get them even if I'm satisfied I'm sure just to see how good they really are 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## vvanrij

1364 in the amp section don't get 'too hot'. And Henmyr I didn't actually try the 1028 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I was more referring to Andrea as the 'crap' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For the most interesting part, I went to buy 4d(lotto, number forecast or what so ever). I bet 1358, 1469, 4562, and guess what I got the price for that 1469. 

 Sorry digress. I am still burning in the so many opamp that I have. I just wonder how to make the 1028 unity gain stable. This time dont fool around, you almost fry my 1028.

 Hope to hear the review on HDAM fast. Do you think we can get this HDAM from China rather than Burson._

 

Lawrence is selling them. Drop him an email for pricing. The big "road block" is still the clearance issue. For me, I must have the Zero buttoned up. Leaving it open is not an option.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_1364 in the amp section don't get 'too hot'. And Henmyr I didn't actually try the 1028 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was more referring to Andrea as the 'crap' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




._

 






 LMAO! I blew Pepsi on my notebook! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I suppose the 1028's could be a Senn thing, but they were really behaving badly. I ran them over 50 hours and it would not clear up, so I moved on. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ow, I got my OPA637AU's, so I'm burning them in for a DAC reviewing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They are stable and work like they should. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 More news later on...


----------



## fishkill62

Zero's

 Lawrence has sent me my Zero with the Alps volume pot upgrade. I have been having trouble with this pot as it only puts out signal on the right channel when you apply sideways pressure to the pot's shaft.

 Lawrence has told me that this could be so as he forgot to solder a ground wire, from the rear pot casing, to the front left plug at the base of the pot.

 Can anyone with the Alps upgrade pot please let me know if this wire is on their pot, and the soldering points?

 Thanks Chris....getting really frustrated with this....


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fishkill62* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Zero's

 Lawrence has sent me my Zero with the Alps volume pot upgrade. I have been having trouble with this pot as it only puts out signal on the right channel when you apply sideways pressure to the pot's shaft.

 Lawrence has told me that this could be so as he forgot to solder a ground wire, from the rear pot casing, to the front left plug at the base of the pot.

 Can anyone with the Alps upgrade pot please let me know if this wire is on their pot, and the soldering points?

 Thanks Chris....getting really frustrated with this...._

 

I just got done doing my second one, and I don't have any grounding wires soldered to anything. I wonder if you have a "cold" solder joint? If you could heat up and melt the solder on each tab, then test it, the problem might be fixed this way. Compare how yours looks to the pics I posted earlier on.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The outside temperatures here have risen drastically in the last 4 days, so like clock work (and Murphy's law), my A/C system started giving me trouble on Wednesday night.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 One service call and visit later in the day, and my 20 year old A/C unit was given it's last rights.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It seized up and died on Friday morning, just as the A/C crew arrived at the house to install a completely new A/C system. They lent me a portable A/C unit, to keep one room cooler (sort of 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) for us to sleep in Friday night, and they came back and finished the install around noon Saturday (today).

 So, I haven't had time to test the Creative X-Fi expresscard further. Sleeping in the heat made me sick, so I'm going to bask in the new, efficient and expensive A/C for the rest of the weekend, until I feel better. My wife is sicker from it than I am, so I'll have to be helping her some too.

 I'll try to post something tangible early in the week. I also received a care package of items to test with the Zero, so news on that will be coming shortly thereafter. Have a good one! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

What the Hell Penchum 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 first it's my AC acting up now yours goes for a dirt nap ?.......I hope it's not too expensive to replace (yeah right, there goes 2K quick). Mine is fixed, finally...after third visit and told the guy what to do (lol, no really).

 I'm compiling the notes for the HDAM/627/LT1364 Head amp (blah blah) as I type this reply. I'm going to post it ASAP in parts. Part "I" is almost ready (hey I type slow). Part II will come later this week. Part I is HDAM/627/LT1364 Head amp comparison.

 Part II is just HDAM/627 in dac section.

 Be up later tonight if everything works out ok. T-Storms around here every day so I have to keep shutting everything down. PITA.

 Peete.

 PS Sorry for taking so long on this fellow SQ junkies !!


----------



## oatmeal769

Hurry Peete, HURRY!!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

HDAM/OPA627BP/LT1364 Mini Review for Zero DAC/Head AMP

 PART I

 The long awaited mini review, is for the most part, complete. Part I will compare the HDAM module in the DAC section of the Zero with the well known BB OPA627BP opamps on a brown dog adapter. The Head Amp section of the Zero with use LT1364's. All (or most) agree the combination of OPA627 + LT1364 makes for a very good listening experience when used in the Zero. Thanks to those that have spent countless hours investigating the dizzying array of models and makers. Tip of the hat to those contributors 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Without further adieu, here is the review............

 Source material : Music, Dream Theater - Six Degrees of Turbulence (thank gods it's not flatulence), Gladiator Soundtrack from movie, Jeff Beck - Jeff Beck's Guitar Shop, Portishead - Portishead, Peter Murphy - Deep. All of these have been listened to with each combination at least 3 times. Yes that took forever.....but hey I want to be thorough.

 Source Equipment : JVC-XV-FA92 DVD-A digital out via Better Cables Silver Serpent Coax (.5m) to Zero coax input. Head amp output to Sennheiser HD650's (with 700 hrs on them and counting).

 Configuration A : OPA627BP's in Zero DAC section, LT1364's in head amp. 50 hrs burn in, 45 hrs of music,24 hours of critical listening.
 Configuration B : HDAM in Zero DAC section , LT1364...you get the idea. 100 + hours burn in, 100 + hours of music, 24 hours of critical listening


 Volume Level for Head Amp output set to nine o'clock position for all testing purposes. Works out to around 84 db spl give or take a few db*. *Entirely recording dependent.

 Part I : Config A 

 The OPA627BP for all it's on line buzz and storied rep delivers a multitude of positives where SQ is concerned when used in the Zero's DAC section. From the listening notes concerning Dream Theater......very tight detailed bass, lively dynamics although a tad recessed, missing the last ounce of slam that my main rig delivers (not bad considering the Zero costs less than a set of primo NOS tubes for the pre amp). The kick drum is taught, not over done , has no over hang at all. Although, slightly relaxed when it comes to the presentation of percussion. It's an impressive feat, none the less, to deliver that level of sophistication for such little money (really....what's 40 bucks these days for killer SQ ? ). What I did notice as far as negatives are concerned are rolled off highs, a metallic sheen or edge given to cymbals and brush work. You know I don't think the OPA627's are entirely at fault here for that.....the head amp section might be influencing the overall SQ a little too much ( see part II ). Still the BB opamps are an unqualified bargain imo for what they do right and boy do they do it....to it, so to speak 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The BB is neither dark or bright IMHO, it seems to ere on the side of caution when faced with highly complex passages, meaning it handles them by compressing the sound stage and dynamics ever so slightly**. (**This trait might be a limitation of the Zero's power supply....) Imaging is very good , easy to place instruments and vocals in the recordings. Live music is a mixed bag at times, not the opamps fault most of the time since recording quality and the habit of re recording parts on live albums makes for a confusing mess with regards to imaging and the ability to discern nuance. When the recording is good the BB opamps do a very fine job of locating things where they should be. Vocals can be a tad forward but without that annoying spitty S or P sound we all dislike. High praise indeed when sibilants can be tamed and not accentuated. Male and female vocals are handled with equal abilities, very good in other words. On the Gladiator ST I noticed a very low signal to noise ratio, almost nonexistent, instruments and voices emerge from out of the black with an airy, ethereal quality I find unique to the OPA627. Dynamics seem compressed slightly again......hmmm OTOH brass instruments sound just right, lovely in fact.....The female vocals on this recording are by one of my favorite artists......I could listen to Lisa with the OPA627's in the DAC until my hair turns gray and love it. The BB opamps seem to paint music with a signature sonic characteristic.......polite , relaxed, detailed,slight upper mid recess, very slight roll off of the highs. Bass on this recording was (IMO) way way overdone, pitty, as it masks the excellent acoustic bass work of the symphony. Strings have that airy quality but lack the edge they do have live. I blame that on the over produced recording once again. Piano sounds very nice but is missing some weight with a hint of being brittle (very very slight). Might be another production mistake......anyhoo...On Jeff Beck's amazing lead guitar works on Guitar Shop, the BB opamps deliver JB's signature harmonics with aplomb, easily sorting the complex harmonies without making it all sound dis jointed. Thoroughly enjoyed this record with the BB/LT1364 combo. An interesting observation during the opening cut, the male vocalist almost startled me with the realism of the lyrics. Kinda hard to explain that one. The opening track isn't really sung, rather talked...anyway it's hyper realistic and rendered beautifully by the BB627's. I have a laugh at my own expense every time I play this cut and get startled all over again....The OPA627BP's 3D aspects, rather the level of detail retrieved from the recording allows one a glimpse into the artist/engineers conception of the piece. This is a relavatory aspect of a good amp and for the Zero with the BB upgrade to deliver this information at the level that it does it is the mark of a well designed piece of gear and a top notch opamp. The 627 is very very good, combined with the LT1364 in the head amp section, for less than 200 bones ? Amazing deal. Is it a giant killer....no but the Zero easily punches a few classes above it's weight. The OPA627BP(and AU's) are an excellent opamp. I'm highly impressed with their abilities. I could easily live with it's minor drawbacks if it were not for the HDAM module and what it brings to the table. With that we arrive at ......

 Part I : Config B

 When it came time to re-install the HDAM and power the Zero back up....The first and most obvious distinction is the HDAM's utterly unrestrained liquid smooth delivery of dynamics. I can't stress enough how impressive the HDAM module handles extremely complex passages without a hint of strain while maintaining the imaging and air. There is no compression of any kind, the instruments seem to breath along with the artist handling them. From the faintest whisper to a thundering climax, the HDAM just cranks it out as it is recorded (for good or bad) without additional color. The HDAM can sound both powerful and delicate at the same time, basically whatever you throw at it the HDAM doesn't seem to break a sweat. Piano sounds superb with the HDAM, absolutely life like, the complex harmonics of this instrument notorious for being difficult to reproduce even with the best gear is handled by the HDAM without batting an eye. Mozart sounds wonderful.....The layering aspect of modern multi tracked recordings is both a blessing and a curse with the HDAM. Fortunately there aren't all that many really horrid CD's/LP's out there. Let's focus on the what was mentioned earlier in the 627's config. Where it is possible to see into the Artist/Engineers concept of the recording the HDAM takes that level of insight all the way. Not only is left and right placement clearly rendered you get height,depth and individual FX types used on overdubs etc etc. Astounding realism. With electric guitars you can easily distinguish between the bright/sweet sound of a strat maple neck/alder body set at the neck pick up, and with all those sounds in between the 5 way switch. You can also recognize the difference between a Les Paul Standard with it's darker sounding cousin, the 57 Les Paul "Black Beauty". Very subtle shadings like these are the HDAM's hallmark IMO. Effortless is a word that keeps popping into my head every time I listen to Zero with the HDAM installed in the DAC section. I can't seem to find a single negative trait for the HDAM SQ wise.....
 I've tried to find something...for days and days I've thrown every type of music I have at it. It doesn't blink at all. I have to wonder what a LD MKV would sound like with it's opamps swapped for HDAM modules. The more I think about that the more I want to try it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .....Back to the Zero....Mids are outstanding,highs are outstanding,bass is outstanding.........you get the picture. My conclusion is thus....the HDAM is simply in another league all it's own. I don't think it's fair to expect the 627 to compete with the HDAM at half it's cost and yet if you decide to go with the 627's in the DAC section you'll be getting about 75% of what HDAM offers. Is that last 25% worth of performance worth double the cost of the HDAM over the BBOPA627's ? An unequivocal YES IMHO. 

 As for the DAC section influencing the head amps output, ? I'd have to say without a doubt it does. The HDAM/LT1364 combination is outstanding in the Zero. The OPA627/LT1364 combo is merely great 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Either config is an excellent choice. I'm keeping the HDAM in the DAC section if you haven't guessed already 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I'll have to try the 627s in the head amp section next with the HDAM feeding it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Part II to follow.....in a few days 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete


----------



## windrider

great review.

 In your opinion how would you rank the following 2?

 - zero opa627dac + LD MKIII
 - zero HDAM + lt1364


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *windrider* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_great review.

 In your opinion how would you rank the following 2?

 - zero opa627dac + LD MKIII
 - zero HDAM + lt1364_

 

Thanks for the kind remarks !! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My set up is JVC DVD ---> Zero HDAMdac --->MF X10 v3* + MFX-PSU ---> LD MKIII ---> HD650's with stock cable. (*Pink Floyd cap and diode upgrade kit)

 The 627 + LD MKIII would rank first from your list. Since I have a HDAM the obvious number one ranking for me would be...

 1) Zero HDAM/dac + LD MKIII
 2) Zero OPA627/dac + LD MKIII
 3) Zero HDAM/dac + LT1364

 Best Regards,

 Peete


----------



## Archimago

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jazz9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do the LT1364 need heatsinks even in the headphone amp?
 I think I'll first try lt1358 in the dac+lt1364 in the amp when my zero's burn in is over and if I'm not satisfied I'll get the opa627 (I'll get them even if I'm satisfied I'm sure just to see how good they really are 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)_

 

As someone else mentioned, LT1364 in headphone amp does get warm but not as hot as DAC section.

 I stuck a Zalman ZMRHS1 heatsink on each one (originally meant for VGA memory) and now can hold my finger over them all day.

 Looks like one more day before the OPA627's arrive .

 Pete: Damn you and your HDAM review temptations! I haven't received the 627 yet and already looking at these Burson eBay ad's . However, I agree with Penchum about needing the lid closed... Too many little kids to risk the shock hazard of an open box!


----------



## deuginthesky

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is just ANDREA again. Please ignore him. There were a few comparisons earlier on, but I don't remember the model numbers. Anyway, the Zero did pretty well, considering it cost less and had a better headphone amp by default, so no one thought too much on the subject. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 From what I,ve seen, the Zero and Zhaolu D2.5 any version have the same headamp.
 I have a D2.5A, just seen pics from the Zero headamp board, they look exactly the same to me.


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What the Hell Penchum 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 first it's my AC acting up now yours goes for a dirt nap ?.......I hope it's not too expensive to replace (yeah right, there goes 2K quick). Mine is fixed, finally...after third visit and told the guy what to do (lol, no really).

 I'm compiling the notes for the HDAM/627/LT1364 Head amp (blah blah) as I type this reply. I'm going to post it ASAP in parts. Part "I" is almost ready (hey I type slow). Part II will come later this week. Part I is HDAM/627/LT1364 Head amp comparison.

 Part II is just HDAM/627 in dac section.

 Be up later tonight if everything works out ok. T-Storms around here every day so I have to keep shutting everything down. PITA.

 Peete.

 PS Sorry for taking so long on this fellow SQ junkies !!_

 


 I personally believe that in most cases HDAMS represent a step backwards in audio electronics. Of course, this is not always the case, but there are some quite decent opamps around that can outperform the discrete ones now. 

 Beware of the marketing hype...

 Just to give you an example, do you really believe that Burson carefully designed the HDAM that they are selling?

 If so, then check this out...

diyAudio Forums

 Surprised? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm not. Happy listening.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What the Hell Penchum 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 first it's my AC acting up now yours goes for a dirt nap ?.......I hope it's not too expensive to replace (yeah right, there goes 2K quick). Mine is fixed, finally...after third visit and told the guy what to do (lol, no really).

 Peete.

 PS Sorry for taking so long on this fellow SQ junkies !!_

 

Complete system replacement: Over 7K with tax. I got 20 years out of the old one, so that is about 5 more than normal. Still, it will put a burdon on things for a while. Damn! Can't live out here without one, so "ka-ching".


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HDAM/OPA627BP/LT1364 Mini Review for Zero DAC/Head AMP

 PART I

 Snip for size...

 Part II to follow.....in a few days 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete_

 

PP,

 One hell of a impressive review!!!! Thank you so much for taking the time and effort to "bring" it all together. You absolutely have my ears! Your description of the OPA627BP is so much like my understanding, it's freaky! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 One thing I wanted to point out to the readership, is the rating of the OPA627BP vs. HDAM module. PP says the 627 is about 75% of the HDAM, and I'm sure this is correct. This isn't a statement that the HDAM rated at 100 is the best thing on the planet earth, better than all others. That rating is only to "scale" the performance of the two items in question, against each other. Be careful you don't read into what is presented. PP has been VERY clear in his presentation, and I salute him for that! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can't hardly wait for the next part!!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I personally believe that in most cases HDAMS represent a step backwards in audio electronics. Of course, this is not always the case, but there are some quite decent opamps around that can outperform the discrete ones now. 

 Beware of the marketing hype...

 Just to give you an example, do you really believe that Burson carefully designed the HDAM that they are selling?

 If so, then check this out...

diyAudio Forums

 Surprised? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'm not. Happy listening._

 

I find your comments "out of place" and NOT pertaining to the issue at hand. The question on EVERYONE else's mind, was simply, does the HDAM represent a clear improvement when used in the ZERO. NOTHING ELSE.

 This is not a "what is better, HDAM or Opamp" thread. Please take your comments somewhere else, or create your own thread to debate this issue to death. As the OP for this thread, I'm asking you nicely. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We must stay focused on the Zero, and this will not be possible if we go off on other topics. Thank you.


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I find your comments "out of place" and NOT pertaining to the issue at hand. The question on EVERYONE else's mind, was simply, does the HDAM represent a clear improvement when used in the ZERO. NOTHING ELSE.

 This is not a "what is better, HDAM or Opamp" thread. Please take your comments somewhere else, or create your own thread to debate this issue to death. As the OP for this thread, I'm asking you nicely. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We must stay focused on the Zero, and this will not be possible if we go off on other topics. Thank you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 



 I reckon that what I said was only partially related to the main topic of this thread, that is the Zero. 

 Let's go back to the original discussion then, and in any case, I'm too busy to debate that topic to death


----------



## Navyblue

Penchum,

 I apologise if this has been mentioned somewhere up here, 379 pages is just too much for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You described it being "transparent with a little bit if tube". Are you describing it as a source or as a source+amp? As a source, is the sound coloured?

 I am looking for a decent source right now, mainly looking at budget CDPs. But frankly, I don't need a transport, and I like the idea of PC as source too. I wonder would you be able to make a comparison as to how would the Zero compares to budget CDP? Preferably to models like Marantz CD6002 or NAD 542?

 In a source, I am looking for neutrality, transparency, frequency extension and detail, I'd prefer not to have a coloured sounding source. I wonder if Zero (stock or swapped op-amp) is for me.

 And having a decent headphone amp is a bonus I guess. But any comment on how it works with AKG phones (K501) would be appreciated.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wise* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW, these poetical "forum reviews" stuffed with a lot of self-satisfied exhibitionism so patently aimed to impress, always thrill me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Glad you liked it Andrea. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	













 At least my mini review is a positive contribution.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PP,

 One hell of a impressive review!!!! Thank you so much for taking the time and effort to "bring" it all together. You absolutely have my ears! Your description of the OPA627BP is so much like my understanding, it's freaky! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 One thing I wanted to point out to the readership, is the rating of the OPA627BP vs. HDAM module. PP says the 627 is about 75% of the HDAM, and I'm sure this is correct. This isn't a statement that the HDAM rated at 100 is the best thing on the planet earth, better than all others. That rating is only to "scale" the performance of the two items in question, against each other. Be careful you don't read into what is presented. PP has been VERY clear in his presentation, and I salute him for that! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can't hardly wait for the next part!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thank you Penchum !! 

 I agonized over the details to a point where I had to give my ears a break to allow my memory to clear so to speak. Interesting that our ears seem to be in concert (pun intended) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I really like the 627's. They are a solid choice for the Zero in every respect. I should explain the observation that the 627 represents roughly 75% of the HDAM's SQ a little further.

 I arrived at the figure based on what they both had in common then subtracted from the 627 in the area's where the HDAM surpassed the BB opamps. The review really is an endorsement for both. I couldn't try out the 627's in the head amp section since the HP jack interfered with the R (or is it L ?) channel's installation of the adapter. May have to modify the adapter a little bit. It needs about 1.5 mm shaved off the pcb to seat in the DIP socket.

 Heres a snippet from Part II. The difference between the 627's and the HDAM going into the MK III is less marked than Part I. I've got my work cut out for me. The cool thing is either setup in the DAC section in thoroughly enjoyable !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I personally believe that in most cases HDAMS represent a step backwards in audio electronics. Of course, this is not always the case, but there are some quite decent opamps around that can outperform the discrete ones now. 

 Beware of the marketing hype...

 Just to give you an example, do you really believe that Burson carefully designed the HDAM that they are selling?

 If so, then check this out...

diyAudio Forums

 Surprised? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm not. Happy listening._

 

To my ears, and this is what counts, I have observed the opposite. I don't post my observations lightly. It took me quite a while to give either type a fair shake.

 Peete.

 PS I forgot to add that I posted a while back that Burson was getting it's HDAM from the same Chinese based OEM that Lawrence sources his parts from. So the news that Burson is stretching the truth isn't really surprising. After finding that out, I opted for the HDAM from Lawrence when I bought the Zero. I know this thread is huge but try and read it all, it's packed with all kinds of great info.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Complete system replacement: Over 7K with tax. I got 20 years out of the old one, so that is about 5 more than normal. Still, it will put a burdon on things for a while. Damn! Can't live out here without one, so "ka-ching". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Holy moly....7K ? What do you have for a home, a castle ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hope you and your wife are feeling much better Pench. I too cannot live without AC anymore either. Funny, never had it until my mid 30's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Man that was a long time ago (lol sort of) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Archimago* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As someone else mentioned, LT1364 in headphone amp does get warm but not as hot as DAC section.

 I stuck a Zalman ZMRHS1 heatsink on each one (originally meant for VGA memory) and now can hold my finger over them all day.

 Looks like one more day before the OPA627's arrive .

 Pete: Damn you and your HDAM review temptations! I haven't received the 627 yet and already looking at these Burson eBay ad's . However, I agree with Penchum about needing the lid closed... Too many little kids to risk the shock hazard of an open box!_

 


 BTW Lawrence sells the HDAM, thats where I got mine from....tempting you again...sorry about that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Peete.


----------



## dacavalcante

damn.... I'm tempted to buy a HDAM now.....
 What do you say ? Senn HD650 or (HDAM and LT1364), which one first ?

 Just to remember, I have a HD555 at the moment...


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I reckon that what I said was only partially related to the main topic of this thread, that is the Zero. 

 Let's go back to the original discussion then, and in any case, I'm too busy to debate that topic to death 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks man, I appreciate it.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Navyblue* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Penchum,

 I apologise if this has been mentioned somewhere up here, 379 pages is just too much for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You described it being "transparent with a little bit if tube". Are you describing it as a source or as a source+amp? As a source, is the sound coloured?

 I am looking for a decent source right now, mainly looking at budget CDPs. But frankly, I don't need a transport, and I like the idea of PC as source too. I wonder would you be able to make a comparison as to how would the Zero compares to budget CDP? Preferably to models like Marantz CD6002 or NAD 542?

 In a source, I am looking for neutrality, transparency, frequency extension and detail, I'd prefer not to have a coloured sounding source. I wonder if Zero (stock or swapped op-amp) is for me.

 And having a decent headphone amp is a bonus I guess. But any comment on how it works with AKG phones (K501) would be appreciated. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I guess it depends on what I was doing at the time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've done quite a few things with the Zero's I have, so I guess I'll have to start over, sorta. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 While a good CDP is nice to have, the "Computer as a source" was just too tempting for me. This is when I found the Zero. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 With so many Opamp possibilities, I'm sure you could find the right ones for your phones and separate headphone amp or receiver headphone jack.

 We have been fortunate to find a couple of Opamp combinations that seem to work very well across different headphones and different separate amps. This was unexpected, but welcome when it was realized. This makes the Zero not only super affordable, but super flexible at the same time. It has become a favorite upgrade path for those of us on a budget. Use it today as DAC and headphone amp, use it tomorrow as a DAC for a separate headphone amp. This allows us to keep listening, while saving up for a separate headphone amp. Not to shabby. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The OPA627's are very much like the sound you described that you are looking for, for the DAC output to another headphone amp/receiver. What is nice, is also changing the built-in headphone amps two Opamps to the LT1364's, which will give you a nice sounding SS headphone amp as well. Many folks with separate tube headphone amps have done this, and now they can plug into whichever one they want, or are in the mood for. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 On a side note, because I know you like to use the headphone jack on a receiver, I also tested the Zero with OPA627's in the DAC, hooked up to my Vintage Yamaha Pre-amp. The headphone output driven by the Zero, is every bit as good if not better than listening to a CDP hooked up to the same Pre-amp. This makes the computer as a source workable and preferred for it's ease of use and quality sounds. I use lossless wav files and WMA lossless.

 I hope this helps some. It is a tender topic for some, and that is ok. The Zero doesn't cost much and neither do the Opamps, so experimenting with "Computer as a source" becomes do-able for a wider audience. I consider it well worth your time, if you like to "check things out".


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_damn.... I'm tempted to buy a HDAM now.....
 What do you say ? Senn HD650 or (HDAM and LT1364), which one first ?

 Just to remember, I have a HD555 at the moment... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'd have to say, get the HD-650's first and start braking them in.

 I'd also recommend getting the OPA627's and LT1364's next. With some hours under your belt, you may find that what you hear is excellent, and moving forward with the HDAM isn't necessary. This is within the "keep the costs low" concept many are following these days. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The issue of case lid clearance with the HDAM installed, is still a major road block. Until a 90 degree adapter of some sorts is found, many of us can't risk having the case open all the time. Stacking becomes impossible for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll be honest and admit, that I want one HDAM for my Zero I'm using with my Vintage analog system. I don't "need" it, I just want it for that last drop of goodness in my main system.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Holy moly....7K ? What do you have for a home, a castle ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hope you and your wife are feeling much better Pench. I too cannot live without AC anymore either. Funny, never had it until my mid 30's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Man that was a long time ago (lol sort of) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Thanks PP, we're hanging in there! The complete system is a Rudd 4 Ton 14 Seer unit with electric heat. No gas here, which sucks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This "dual" system is what runs the price up big time. The old one was 9 seer, so I should see some savings on the 'ole electric bill.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd have to say, get the HD-650's first and start braking them in.

 I'd also recommend getting the OPA627's and LT1364's next. With some hours under your belt, you may find that what you hear is excellent, and moving forward with the HDAM isn't necessary. This is within the "keep the costs low" concept many are following these days. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The issue of case lid clearance with the HDAM installed, is still a major road block. Until a 90 degree adapter of some sorts is found, many of us can't risk having the case open all the time. Stacking becomes impossible for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll be honest and admit, that I want one HDAM for my Zero I'm using with my Vintage analog system. I don't "need" it, I just want it for that last drop of goodness in my main system. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Well... I don't have any problem leaving the case open (except when I get a mkIII because I would want to put it on the top of ZERO DAC).
 I really thin I'll go strait to HDAM, because of this math:
 Lawrence offered me 627AU on a DIP convertor:
 - 2x627AU = $30.00
 - 1x Brown Dog Adapter = $8.00 (I guess)
 - Shipping to Brazil.... maybe $15.00
 - Brazilian TAX (if the shipping gets taxed) 60% over ($8+$30+15)
 Total $53.00 Without TAX or $84.8 with tax

 While with HDAM
 - HDAM $80.00
 - Shipping $15.00
 Total $95.00 and $152.00 with tax.......

 As I'm quite sure I'll be tempted to buy HDAM, even getting 627 first..... so I guess it's much better spend money just one time... because of shipping cost and Brazil's import tax of 60%

 So.... I must go with 650 first, right ?!?!?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well... I don't have any problem leaving the case open (except when I get a mkIII because I would want to put it on the top of ZERO DAC).
 I really thin I'll go strait to HDAM, because of this math:
 Lawrence offered me 627AU on a DIP convertor:
 - 2x627AU = $30.00
 - 1x Brown Dog Adapter = $8.00 (I guess)
 - Shipping to Brazil.... maybe $15.00
 - Brazilian TAX (if the shipping gets taxed) 60% over ($8+$30+15)
 Total $53.00 Without TAX or $84.8 with tax

 While with HDAM
 - HDAM $80.00
 - Shipping $15.00
 Total $95.00 and $152.00 with tax.......

 As I'm quite sure I'll be tempted to buy HDAM, even getting 627 first..... so I guess it's much better spend money just one time... because of shipping cost and Brazil's import tax of 60%

 So.... I must go with 650 first, right ?!?!? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I think it is your best first move. If the other purchases take time to complete, you'll still appreciate the improvements from having the HD-650. The more hours you can run them in advance, the better too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Those taxes are insane!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks PP, we're hanging in there! The complete system is a Rudd 4 Ton 14 Seer unit with electric heat. No gas here, which sucks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 This "dual" system is what runs the price up big time. The old one was 9 seer, so I should see some savings on the 'ole electric bill. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I forgot the concept of Heat pump= cooling and heating. You'll see a pretty substantial savings in energy costs with the 14 seer unit (ours is 13.5). Costs about 30 bucks a month here for cooling. Used to be 65 with the old 11 seer unit. This means you can run more gear at the same time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Is the Rudd using Puron refrigerant ?

 Peete.

 PS That MC34-AB amp is breaking in wonderfully and doubles as a space heater 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (which is good because the AC makes the basement a meat locker)


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well... I don't have any problem leaving the case open (except when I get a mkIII because I would want to put it on the top of ZERO DAC).
 I really thin I'll go strait to HDAM, because of this math:
 Lawrence offered me 627AU on a DIP convertor:
 - 2x627AU = $30.00
 - 1x Brown Dog Adapter = $8.00 (I guess)
 - Shipping to Brazil.... maybe $15.00
 - Brazilian TAX (if the shipping gets taxed) 60% over ($8+$30+15)
 Total $53.00 Without TAX or $84.8 with tax

 While with HDAM
 - HDAM $80.00
 - Shipping $15.00
 Total $95.00 and $152.00 with tax.......

 As I'm quite sure I'll be tempted to buy HDAM, even getting 627 first..... so I guess it's much better spend money just one time... because of shipping cost and Brazil's import tax of 60%

 So.... I must go with 650 first, right ?!?!? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Sounds like a good plan (650's first). You can't go wrong with either choice, HDAM or OPA627 for the Zero. It's just a matter of what your willing to spend. I feel for you D, 60 % import tax ? That's robbery, plain and simple.

 Peete.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think it is your best first move. If the other purchases take time to complete, you'll still appreciate the improvements from having the HD-650. The more hours you can run them in advance, the better too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Those taxes are insane! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thank you for your reply Penchum!
 So I will move to 650 first indeed.... I'll try to do that by august....
 Yeah, those tax are insane.... guess how much I've paid for Zero DAC ?

 Almost $300.00
 If you take in account that $1 = R$1.71 (R$ = Real our currency).
 And that I usually get about $700 per month from my family to pay all my bills and living and keep studying at the university (this one I don't pay at least).... you may guess how much effort I took to have this.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Now that I'm also working it's going to be easier to move to 650.....


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sounds like a good plan (650's first). You can't go wrong with either choice, HDAM or OPA627 for the Zero. It's just a matter of what your willing to spend. I feel for you D, 60 % import tax ? That's robbery, plain and simple.

 Peete._

 

I couldn't agree more with you.....

 If you got angry... imagine me..... I get so pis*ed everytime I have to pay that stupid dutie....


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I couldn't agree more with you.....

 If you got angry... imagine me..... I get so pis*ed everytime I have to pay that stupid dutie...._

 

You'll love the Zero/MKIII/HD650 combination. Tube rolling,opamp rolling, Brazilian Gov rolling in D's import tax monies 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Still shaking my head over the duty thing. Wow.

 Peete.


----------



## Almoxil

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I couldn't agree more with you.....

 If you got angry... imagine me..... I get so pis*ed everytime I have to pay that stupid dutie...._

 

*So do I!*





 60% is too much, and this money isn't even put to good use in this country...


----------



## Archimago

Well, got my OPA627's installed with LT1364 for headphone amp today as expected (yay, mail from HK)...

 Very nice sound - "rounder" and smoother than the LT1469/LT1364 combo I had running, somewhat better detail as well thru my ATH-M50's. Now can I detect poorly encoded 192kbps MP3's easier .

 One quick question - I closed the case already before checking the temperature of the OPA627's after extended music playing and too lazy to open the box again... No issue with hot OPA627's right??? Still got a few heatsinks to put to service if needed!


----------



## StratCat

Firstly,

 Thank you Penchum for starting this thread, and for your original review and reporting efforts. 

 Thanks to all who participated, also.

 +++

 OK - 

 I'm new here at Head-Fi, and just getting into hi-fi headphones after a 7 or 8 year hiatus from hi-end consumer/lo-end audiophile gear.

 But ... I'm happy to report I just ordered a Zero from Lawrence! 

 I'll be using it with my recently acquired AT AD700's for classical music, and either AT A700's or Denon D2000's for other-than-classical listening (I have all three cans in-house, and am deciding whether to keep the A700's or D2000s for non-classical listening). 

 I'll be sourcing out of the onboard S/PDIF on my homebuilt Asus P5K-E mobo'd computer, initially using the Zero's built-in headphone amp to drive my cans.

 Thanks again for the great thread guys!

 +++

 Oh ... Took the weekend and yesterday to get thru the first 142 pages of this thread! Guess I'll have something left to read during the 10 day delivery ETA.

 C'ya 'round the fora.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *positive contribution* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The LT1469 is a bad sounding opamp for audio, as I repeatedly said [for the poster above]._

 

Are you using the HD650 for all your op-amp comparisons? If this is the case, I can see why you would write the above statement. When thinking about tonality, the HD650 and LT1469 must be one of the worst pairings ever, and would indeed give your results.

 HD650 = thick, warm.
 LT1469 = thick, warm.
 HD650 + LT1469 = syrup.

 Try the LT1469 with another headphone, for exemple a rather light bright sounding one like the RS1 or MS2i and you might get another result.


----------



## StratCat

Hmm…

 After just placing my order for the Zero, as tested by Penchum on page one of this thread, I inadvertently stumbled upon _snow48_6_ selling what appears to be the same or similar unit, but with added USB connectivity, on ebay here:

ZERO NEW 24BIT 192KHZ DAC +HEAD PHONE AMP +USB PC link - eBay (item 140241338800 end time Jun-18-08 17:27:35 PDT)

 I didn't see anything updated on the first page of this thread reflecting this new unit, and didn't get any hits for this feature when searching this thread (nor did I try to speed read the pages between 142 and here).

 Anyway, I fired off an email to Lawrence's MSN and ebay accounts inquiring as to the specs of the USB unit, and if he can procure it.

 If this is old news that I missed by not reading the interim thread pages between page 142 and here, pls accept my apologies for the wasted B/W.


----------



## direcow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm…

 After just placing my order for the Zero, as tested by Penchum on page one of this thread, I inadvertently stumbled upon snow48_6 selling what appears to be the same or similar unit, but with added USB connectivity, on ebay here:_

 


 the USB PC link is an external piece of hardware.. I don't think it's something integrated. Well, the USB PC Link that came with my Zero is external anyway.


----------



## Trapper32

Its the exact same unit with a usb/pclink cable thrown in. You may want to check "snows" feedback on Ebay. I think a few headfiers have mentioned in this thread that they've had problems. I've only read good things about Lawrence's service.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *direcow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the USB PC link is an external piece of hardware.. I don't think it's something integrated. Well, the USB PC Link that came with my Zero is external anyway._

 

direcow -

 Thanks for the quick reply.

 Actually, I just got an email reply from Lawrence, literally 10 mins after I fired off my inquiry, indicating he would add a USB link to my order free-of-charge. So it appears it well may be external as you stated.

 I do agree that the listing of the seemingly USB equipped unit from the other seller was somewhat ambiguous, but then that's just the nature of this very interesting new world opening up in China, from my (our?) western perspectives, anyway.

 Thanks again.


----------



## windrider

i've been wondering if there are any wolfson opamps that can be used with the zero? Also is the such a thing as a cs4398 opamp and can it be used with the zero?

 and to sidetrack abit, is the cs4398 used as the ipod (classic) DAC?


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trapper32* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Its the exact same unit with a usb/pclink cable thrown in. You may want to check "snows" feedback on Ebay. I think a few headfiers have mentioned in this thread that they've had problems. I've only read good things about Lawrence's service._

 

Trapper32 -

 Thanks.

 And yeah, I did glean the concerns you alluded to with the other seller from my reading the first 1/3 of this (amazingly long but highly informative) thread, which is why I decided to pursue the USB issue with Lawrence rather than other sellers. Actually, I only became aware of the USB option when I did a quick ebay search looking for my unit's listing just moments after I bought it.


----------



## Jazz9

Yesterday I swapped the 5532 in the amp with the lt1364 while keeping the opa2604 in the DAC and I must say that the difference was immediately noticeable: better clarity, dynamics...well everything was better so the lt1364 were there to stay.
 And then today I put the lt1358. Someone said that the lt1358 didn't have a wow factor but didn't do anything wrong, that's my opinion too. There isn't anything it really does GREAT but it does everything really good while sounding smooth and natural.
 So for now I'll keep this combo: lt1358+lt1364.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You'll love the Zero/MKIII/HD650 combination. Tube rolling,opamp rolling, Brazilian Gov rolling in D's import tax monies 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Still shaking my head over the duty thing. Wow.

 Peete._

 

LoL....
 Thank you for your support Peete..... it's nice to know that were not alone on this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Everytime I come back to the list a urge will of spending money takes over me....
 Well..... I'm pretty sure that will be it..... Zero(HDAM)/MKIII/HD650
 on a time line....:
 HD650 (August or setember)
 HDAM + LT1364 (October to December)
 MKIII (December to february - depending of when my family choose to go to Disney).

 Now let's hope my engineering course is helping me on setting events date.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Almoxil* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*So do I!*





 60% is too much, and this money isn't even put to good use in this country..._

 

Yeahhh!! Mad Brazilians... rise!


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hope this helps some. It is a tender topic for some, and that is ok. The Zero doesn't cost much and neither do the Opamps, so experimenting with "Computer as a source" becomes do-able for a wider audience. I consider it well worth your time, if you like to "check things out". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

This is actually important for me and the reason I chose the zero -- I want my MacBook Pro to be my sole music source. Other than that, I might use my Mac Mini if I had a regular hi-fi set-up in the same manner. That I can tweak away gives me a bit of inexpensive enjoyment too.

 On another note, I got my Van Den Hul Optocoupler today in the mail. Going through my usual listening collection on my MacBook Pro, there's clearly better detail and separation, with aspects of various songs appearing that I hadn't heard before - very clearly so because I wasn't expecting that much and got quite a few surprises. Quite a bit of this is because, I'm sure, there's now no crappy $2 toslink -> mini adaptor in the chain any longer, with its visibly dodgy lens. Now the Optocoupler is overkill admittedly, but I got it as payment for a job I'm doing, so for me it was worth it.

 I'm going to ponder the idea of transplanting the Zero's components into a bigger box for the HDAM module in the future, though it may be beyond the lengths I wish to go to. As things stand, the SQ I have now has reached the territory that some music I'm starting to feel throughout my body in an unusually good way.


----------



## Jazz9

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jazz9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yesterday I swapped the 5532 in the amp with the lt1364 while keeping the opa2604 in the DAC and I must say that the difference was immediately noticeable: better clarity, dynamics...well everything was better so the lt1364 were there to stay.
 And then today I put the lt1358. Someone said that the lt1358 didn't have a wow factor but didn't do anything wrong, that's my opinion too. There isn't anything it really does GREAT but it does everything really good while sounding smooth and natural.
 So for now I'll keep this combo: lt1358+lt1364._

 

I had tested the 1358 mainly with "vocal" music (a singer and not a lot of things going on behind).
 And it's true that I found the sound to be smooth and really not aggressive.
 But I just listened to some rock with it and thought that something wasn't quite right. It just sounded congested on complex moments and the sound stage and details weren't all that great either, the separation between instruments wasn't clear enough, and that was compared to 2604.
 Thinking that my impressions must have been wrong I put the 2604 back in place and everything I thought was in fact true 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...
 I find the 2604 to have better sound stage, details, and to handle complex music better than 1358 (yeah surprising I know).
 It's disappointing because I found the 1358 to be less tiring than 2604 (I know almost everybody seems to think 2604 to be dull and warm but I don't, I find them to be quite bright in fact).
 I also tested lt1469 in dac+1364 and it sounds fairly good, not as aggressive as 2604 while handling most kinds of music well.
 Maybe I should let the 1358 burn in more but I didn't even need to do that for 1469 and 1364.

 edit: i decided to give lt1358 a second chance by letting them burn in and I'll draw conclusions later


----------



## ccschua

guys, Is this OPA 2107 suitable for the DAC section. found the OPA 2107 replaces OPA 2604 in some dac.

 Instead of LT 1358, why not give a try to LT 1057. Very analytical DAC with tube signature.


----------



## tinseljim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is actually important for me and the reason I chose the zero -- I want my MacBook Pro to be my sole music source. Other than that, I might use my Mac Mini if I had a regular hi-fi set-up in the same manner. That I can tweak away gives me a bit of inexpensive enjoyment too.

 On another note, I got my Van Den Hul Optocoupler today in the mail. Going through my usual listening collection on my MacBook Pro, there's clearly better detail and separation, with aspects of various songs appearing that I hadn't heard before - very clearly so because I wasn't expecting that much and got quite a few surprises. Quite a bit of this is because, I'm sure, there's now no crappy $2 toslink -> mini adaptor in the chain any longer, with its visibly dodgy lens. Now the Optocoupler is overkill admittedly, but I got it as payment for a job I'm doing, so for me it was worth it.

 I'm going to ponder the idea of transplanting the Zero's components into a bigger box for the HDAM module in the future, though it may be beyond the lengths I wish to go to. As things stand, the SQ I have now has reached the territory that some music I'm starting to feel throughout my body in an unusually good way._

 

x2 on the VDH Optocoupler!


----------



## Penchum

POSITIVE CONTRIBUTION = ANDREA......AGAIN. 

 Please try to ignore until deleted.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Archimago* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, got my OPA627's installed with LT1364 for headphone amp today as expected (yay, mail from HK)...

 Very nice sound - "rounder" and smoother than the LT1469/LT1364 combo I had running, somewhat better detail as well thru my ATH-M50's. Now can I detect poorly encoded 192kbps MP3's easier .

 One quick question - I closed the case already before checking the temperature of the OPA627's after extended music playing and too lazy to open the box again... No issue with hot OPA627's right??? Still got a few heatsinks to put to service if needed!_

 

Not enough heat to worry about. You should be good to go.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is actually important for me and the reason I chose the zero -- I want my MacBook Pro to be my sole music source. Other than that, I might use my Mac Mini if I had a regular hi-fi set-up in the same manner. That I can tweak away gives me a bit of inexpensive enjoyment too.

 On another note, I got my Van Den Hul Optocoupler today in the mail. Going through my usual listening collection on my MacBook Pro, there's clearly better detail and separation, with aspects of various songs appearing that I hadn't heard before - very clearly so because I wasn't expecting that much and got quite a few surprises. Quite a bit of this is because, I'm sure, there's now no crappy $2 toslink -> mini adaptor in the chain any longer, with its visibly dodgy lens. Now the Optocoupler is overkill admittedly, but I got it as payment for a job I'm doing, so for me it was worth it.

 I'm going to ponder the idea of transplanting the Zero's components into a bigger box for the HDAM module in the future, though it may be beyond the lengths I wish to go to. As things stand, the SQ I have now has reached the territory that some music I'm starting to feel throughout my body in an unusually good way._

 

This is actually a very good sign. It means satisfaction and enjoyment are meeting in the middle, and further upgrade itis will be past the point where the law of diminishing returns resides. It is very keen of you to notice this too. Many miss the signs and continue tossing money at audio upgrades.


----------



## windrider

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jazz9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had tested the 1358 mainly with "vocal" music (a singer and not a lot of things going on behind).
 And it's true that I found the sound to be smooth and really not aggressive.
 But I just listened to some rock with it and thought that something wasn't quite right. It just sounded congested on complex moments and the sound stage and details weren't all that great either, the separation between instruments wasn't clear enough, and that was compared to 2604.
 Thinking that my impressions must have been wrong I put the 2604 back in place and everything I thought was in fact true 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...
 I find the 2604 to have better sound stage, details, and to handle complex music better than 1358 (yeah surprising I know).
 It's disappointing because I found the 1358 to be less tiring than 2604 (I know almost everybody seems to think 2604 to be dull and warm but I don't, I find them to be quite bright in fact).
 I also tested lt1469 in dac+1364 and it sounds fairly good, not as aggressive as 2604 while handling most kinds of music well.
 Maybe I should let the 1358 burn in more but I didn't even need to do that for 1469 and 1364.

 edit: i decided to give lt1358 a second chance by letting them burn in and I'll draw conclusions later_

 

agree about the lt1358s.

 as for the 2604, i wouldnt say it sounds "bright", but slightly "harsh" or "thin".


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jazz9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had tested the 1358 mainly with "vocal" music (a singer and not a lot of things going on behind).
 And it's true that I found the sound to be smooth and really not aggressive.
 But I just listened to some rock with it and thought that something wasn't quite right. It just sounded congested on complex moments and the sound stage and details weren't all that great either, the separation between instruments wasn't clear enough, and that was compared to 2604.
 Thinking that my impressions must have been wrong I put the 2604 back in place and everything I thought was in fact true 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...
 I find the 2604 to have better sound stage, details, and to handle complex music better than 1358 *(yeah surprising I know).*
 It's disappointing because I found the 1358 to be less tiring than 2604 (I know almost everybody seems to think 2604 to be dull and warm but I don't, I find them to be quite bright in fact).
 I also tested lt1469 in dac+1364 and it sounds fairly good, not as aggressive as 2604 while handling most kinds of music well.
 Maybe I should let the 1358 burn in more but I didn't even need to do that for 1469 and 1364.

 edit: i decided to give lt1358 a second chance by letting them burn in and I'll draw conclusions later_

 

(Jazz9, the following is pointed and doesn't mean anyone is upset at you or anything like it at all. It is about a truly sad situation, that you and many others have fallen prey too.)

 Actually, this is not very surprising at all. Remember where that LT1358 recommendation came from.....ANDREA. The person behind tons of aliases, who doesn't have a working Zero and never did. There is no one less qualified to make recommendations for the Zero. As PP and myself and others have said to everyone here, if you see a new poster with very few posts, giving out recommendations on Opamps or DACs or anything, IGNORE THEM. They are ANDREA EVERYTIME!


----------



## Jazz9

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *windrider* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_agree about the lt1358s.

 as for the 2604, i wouldnt say it sounds "bright", but slightly "harsh" or "thin"._

 

Yes "harsh" is definitely the right word. Not excessively but harsh nonetheless (to me anyway).
 And concerning the lt1358, I've been listening to it the last two hours and I like it in the end, it is smoother than the other opamps I have so I'll stick with it for now.
 I'll get the opa627au from lawrence eventually to see if it could be even better than lt1358.


----------



## vvanrij

Maybe you should add it in the first post Penchum? The little kid just doesn't seem to go away.


----------



## Navyblue

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The OPA627's are very much like the sound you described that you are looking for, for the DAC output to another headphone amp/receiver. What is nice, is also changing the built-in headphone amps two Opamps to the LT1364's, which will give you a nice sounding SS headphone amp as well. Many folks with separate tube headphone amps have done this, and now they can plug into whichever one they want, or are in the mood for. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks again for your wonderful insight. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I guess you ordered the dual OPA627 from Brown Dog together with the adapter? May I know if it is this one here?

Two Pre-Mounted OPA627AU Op-amps on 020302 Adapter (p/n OPA627AU-020302S) - OPA627-020302S

 If so, it seems kinda pricey. How does the LT1364 compare to the above for the DAC section?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On a side note, because I know you like to use the headphone jack on a receiver, I also tested the Zero with OPA627's in the DAC, hooked up to my Vintage Yamaha Pre-amp. The headphone output driven by the Zero, is every bit as good if not better than listening to a CDP hooked up to the same Pre-amp. This makes the computer as a source workable and preferred for it's ease of use and quality sounds. I use lossless wav files and WMA lossless._

 

Actually, it's not that I particularly like my headphone in my pre amp, it sounds really fine, but that's all I had before I build my speaker to headphone adapter. I think the adapter is a bit better than my pre amp. I think the sound is really fine, but I keep wondering if a dedicated amp (read LD Mk V) is better sounding. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 When LT1364 is used on the amplifier section, how does it compare to LD Mk I or LD Mk V. Is the difference subtle or obvious? Especially in the sound stage and instrument separation aspect.

 I have a question regarding the pre amp feature. When the right most button is pressed and there is no headphone present, does it's output toggle between full blast and volume knob regulated? If so I'd have to somehow secure that button so that I don't accidentally blast my head off.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Navyblue* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks again for your wonderful insight. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I guess you ordered the dual OPA627 from Brown Dog together with the adapter? May I know if it is this one here?

Two Pre-Mounted OPA627AU Op-amps on 020302 Adapter (p/n OPA627AU-020302S) - OPA627-020302S

 If so, it seems kinda pricey. How does the LT1364 compare to the above for the DAC section?



 Actually, it's not that I particularly like my headphone in my pre amp, it sounds really fine, but that's all I had before I build my speaker to headphone adapter. I think the adapter is a bit better than my pre amp. I think the sound is really fine, but I keep wondering if a dedicated amp (read LD Mk V) is better sounding. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 When LT1364 is used on the amplifier section, how does it compare to LD Mk I or LD Mk V. Is the difference subtle or obvious? Especially in the sound stage and instrument separation aspect.

 I have a question regarding the pre amp feature. When the right most button is pressed and there is no headphone present, does it's output toggle between full blast and volume knob regulated? If so I'd have to somehow secure that button so that I don't accidentally blast my head off. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ok, ummm, Lawrence is selling the OPA627AU's pre-soldered on an adapter. Drop him an email and check his price: lawrencechanbig@msn.com I think his price is better.

 The LT1364's in the headphone amp are a big improvement over the stock Opamps. Very worth doing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Zero's amp vs MKV issue has been addressed before, but to summarize, the MKV is a much more refined headphone amp with better dynamics and purity of amplified signal. It should, it costs $300 compared to the Zero's whole unit cost of $139. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 On the pre-amp issue, the button toggles it between line-level output and variable (volume knob) output. The majority use the line-level output and control their volume on the amp, or receiver, which is safe.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe you should add it in the first post Penchum? The little kid just doesn't seem to go away._

 

Good idea! DONE!


----------



## MinotaurUK

Penchum, as someone with both the LD MKIVse and MKV, do you feel the OPA627 is still the best choice (383 pages later 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) when using the Zero as a preamp for the LD amps?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MinotaurUK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Penchum, as someone with both the LD MKIVse and MKV, do you feel the OPA627 is still the best choice (383 pages later 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) when using the Zero as a preamp for the LD amps?_

 

Yes. The only hard variable might be my use of Senn HD-600 and HD-650, but I like the end results with both phones. The DAC output using the OPA627's has worked well with everything I have tried so far.


----------



## MinotaurUK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes. The only hard variable might be my use of Senn HD-600 and HD-650_

 

Given I have exactly the same cans, I'll take your word for it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Many thanks.


----------



## ciphercomplete

I got my Zero today.
 I plugged everything in and turned my MK III on.
 Keyed up some random songs in random genres.
 After 10 minutes I had to fight off fits of laughter.
 It makes my $100 soundcard sound like a cassette tape. My mouth was open for over 10 minutes.
 I was a skeptic on just how much standalone DACs could improve SQ but no longer.

 The headamp section is no slouch either. My K-501s struggle for a bit more power but the HD580s are powered more than competently. 

 I have never experienced such a stark improvement in sound quality period. It was even more impressive than my first experience with audiophile headphones after spending a lifetime listening to cheap Sony and radio shack rebadges.


----------



## P_1

Well, I just bought a w5000, a zero, opa627, LT1364. I was wondering if it was a good decision to get the zero and the opamps for the w5000 or if there was something better I could get for the same price.
 I was also wondering if the usb link thats thrown in here: 
ZERO NEW 24BIT 192KHZ DAC +HEAD PHONE AMP +USB PC link - eBay (item 140242467246 end time Jun-18-08 09:34:16 PDT) 
 is 24bit/96khz or if the resolution is actually determined by the Zero and not the usb link. 

 I also have an audio advantage micro and I was wondering if that would work well with the Zero.
 Thanks


----------



## coredump

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got my Zero today.
 I plugged everything in and turned my MK III on.
 Keyed up some random songs in random genres.
 After 10 minutes I had to fight off fits of laughter.
 It makes my $100 soundcard sound like a cassette tape. My mouth was open for over 10 minutes.
 I was a skeptic on just how much standalone DACs could improve SQ but no longer.

 The headamp section is no slouch either. My K-501s struggle for a bit more power but the HD580s are powered more than competently. 

 I have never experienced such a stark improvement in sound quality period. It was even more impressive than my first experience with audiophile headphones after spending a lifetime listening to cheap Sony and radio shack rebadges._

 

My experience was very similar. I wondered how much better an external DAC could sound and now I’m sure I will never buy another sound card again. My X-Fi has gone unused since I got the Zero. For the price I think it’s a worthwhile upgrade for any serious PC user. My MS1s never really improved with amping but they sound a whole lot better with the Zero. You should also try hooking up any PC speakers you have. There could be a large improvement there as well. My A2s sound way better on the Zero than the X-Fi.


----------



## Lamora

I see most people are using fullsize headphones with the zero, has anyone tried it with etymotic ER-4S/P? I am intending to buy both as soon as i can sell my xbox 360 to someone who'll find more use for it than i do. They will be used for gaming and music.


----------



## koppite

Couple questions:

 At the risk of sounding like an idiot, is there anyplace to buy this other than ebay that ships quickly?

 Would I be able to hook this to my macbook for some good improvement over my bithead?

 Would it connect to the macbook through USB, like an external sound card? Or does it still use my Macbook sound card?


----------



## P_1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koppite* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Couple questions:

 At the risk of sounding like an idiot, is there anyplace to buy this other than ebay that ships quickly?

 Would I be able to hook this to my macbook for some good improvement over my bithead?

 Would it connect to the macbook through USB, like an external sound card? Or does it still use my Macbook sound card?_

 

You can email Lawrence directly and see if you can buy it off him, his email was mentioned some where in this thread.

 So this is how it works:
 macbook => usb to spdif => Zero
 So your sound card is totally bypassed.

 But I have a couple of questions myself:

 Is the Zero amp + opa627 + LT1364 a good match with the Audio Technica ATH-W5000?

 and

 Is the "Digital PCLink" usb to spdif any good and is it 24bit/96khz?


----------



## Almoxil

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koppite* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Couple questions:

 At the risk of sounding like an idiot, is there anyplace to buy this other than ebay that ships quickly?

 Would I be able to hook this to my macbook for some good improvement over my bithead?

 Would it connect to the macbook through USB, like an external sound card? Or does it still use my Macbook sound card?_

 

Most reliable seller is Lawrence (eBay name biglawhk, I guess). You can buy directly from him (no eBay), throwing an email at lawrencechanbig@msn.com .

 No, it doesn't have an USB port, but you can plug your source into it through optical or coaxial inputs. If your MacBook has coaxial or optical outputs, you'll be fine (sorry, haven't had the chance of using a MacBook). Oh, and there are some USB to SPDIF adapters that may work if your MacBook doesn't have the outputs.


----------



## koppite

Also wondering about the 24 v. 16 bits. Isn't USB audio 16 bits anyways, so wouldn't it not matter that it's a 24 bit amp?


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *P_1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can email Lawrence directly and see if you can buy it off him, his email was mentioned some where in this thread.

 So this is how it works:
 macbook => usb to spdif => Zero
 So your sound card is totally bypassed.

 But I have a couple of questions myself:

 Is the Zero amp + opa627 + LT1364 a good match with the Audio Technica ATH-W5000?

 and

 Is the "Digital PCLink" usb to spdif any good and is it 24bit/96khz?_


----------



## P_1

I recently emailed Lawrence about this and he confirmed that this one:
PCLINK USB-SPDIF FOR AUDIO 24BIT , UDA1321 / CS8405A - eBay (item 230262707764 end time Jun-23-08 09:46:43 PDT)
 is 24 bit.

 Also I was wondering if I need dual LT1364 on a pcb or if its just one for the headphone output, since it seems that we need dual opa627's on the DAC


----------



## Jazz9

I'm using foobar with kernel streaming output in 24 bit format, should i leave it like that or put it in 16 bit+dither?


----------



## Jazz9

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *P_1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I recently emailed Lawrence about this and he confirmed that this one:
PCLINK USB-SPDIF FOR AUDIO 24BIT , UDA1321 / CS8405A - eBay (item 230262707764 end time Jun-23-08 09:46:43 PDT)
 is 24 bit.

 Also I was wondering if I need dual LT1364 on a pcb or if its just one for the headphone output, since it seems that we need dual opa627's on the DAC_

 

For the dac you need one dual opamp: the opa627 being a single one you need two of them on an adapter.
 For the headamp you need two dual opamps, one for each channel: the lt1364 is already a dual opamp so you only need two of them.


----------



## Jazz9

And just for the record, I have no problem whatsoever with the lt1358 anymore like I said in an earlier post. I have it in the Dac with the lt1364 and i enjoy the combo very much. I don't know why I disliked it at first, maybe because it was different than opa2604 or lt1469...
 And I didn't try it because of andrea's recommendation but because of those:

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tks to those who introduce LT 1358 for DAC section, a big THANK YOU. The LT 1358 beats LM 4562 hands down. 

 Initial LT 1358 review is awesome. Compared to LM 4562, LT 1358 is very silky smooth, mellow and warm. LT 1358 is more polish at the mid and high edges, while the LM 4562 is too revealing and sharp. LT1358 low freq attack and punch is controlled and not the sort to shake the glass. 

 This LT 1358 makes my listening so soothing, that I almost doze off.

 Next on my list review list 2x LT 1028 on browndog and DY2000._

 


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_EDIT: About the LT1358: 

 I have used it for a while today and have to say that I really enjoy it's rather natural midrange. The voices sound very clear and natural, moreso than OPA627 (if my pair is legit, but I can't see how they could not, as I find them to have every feature they should have sonically). The OPA627 is more laid back and with a little bit bigger soundstage. 

 My perfect op-amp would probably be:
 The transparancy of LME49720 (LT4562)
 The natural/neutral midrange of LT1358/OPA627 but with the clarity of LME49720
 The soundstage of OPA627
 The bass of OPA627
 A middleground of OPA627 and LME49720 treble.

 I really like everything about the LME49720 EXCEPT... the rather small soundstage and the slightly "dark purple/dark blue" coloration. Every time I use it I first get very excited about the transparancy, but soon get very annoyed by the rather dark coloration, similar to the DT880 but without the warm midrange. No headphone I've tried with it yet have "clicked" with it. I did find synergy between Zero dac (LME49720) and LD MKIII (Mullard EF92 CV131)._


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jazz9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And just for the record, I have no problem whatsoever with the lt1358 anymore like I said in an earlier post. I have it in the Dac with the lt1364 and i enjoy the combo very much. I don't know why I disliked it at first, maybe because it was different than opa2604 or lt1469...
 And I didn't try it because of andrea's recommendation but because of those:_

 

No problem at all, and I hope you understood the "pointed" bit was for the sake of our Zero thread "readership", not you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Thanks for being tolerant of me, I was pretty upset at the time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There was a discussion at one point, where the LT1364's in the amp, seemed to work well with any unity gain stable, full frequency and dynamic Opamp in the DAC section. I still don't know if that was totally proven or not, but it did sound logical at the time. Now with it working well in combo with the LT1358 in the DAC, maybe the theory holds a little more water.

 How long did it take for your LT1358 to "mature"? I just found mine (lost in with the other static bags), so I was thinking about testing the DAC output with my separate amps, to see how well it does. If it "matures" quickly, I might get it done right away. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks!


----------



## tinseljim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koppite* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Couple questions:

 At the risk of sounding like an idiot, is there anyplace to buy this other than ebay that ships quickly?

 Would I be able to hook this to my macbook for some good improvement over my bithead?

 Would it connect to the macbook through USB, like an external sound card? Or does it still use my Macbook sound card?_

 

If you have a MacBook like me then use your optical out. Your options for optical out I believe are the following (in order of price and in this case SQ)

 1. Use optical cable provided with a cheap mini to toslink adapter ($2)

 2. A glass optical cable with same adapter ($15 + $2 = $17)

 3. A Van Den Hul Optocoupler MKII Toslink to miniplug ($100(?))

 I have the VDH and have no complaints but it is also not the cheapest option!

 The MB optical out sound into external DACs has been compared to CD players costing $5000 with no or little difference. It is definitely a great source for high end audio (using Apple Lossless or aiff of course)!

 James


----------



## Jazz9

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No problem at all, and I hope you understood the "pointed" bit was for the sake of our Zero thread "readership", not you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for being tolerant of me, I was pretty upset at the time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There was a discussion at one point, where the LT1364's in the amp, seemed to work well with any unity gain stable, full frequency and dynamic Opamp in the DAC section. I still don't know if that was totally proven or not, but it did sound logical at the time. Now with it working well in combo with the LT1358 in the DAC, maybe the theory holds a little more water.

 How long did it take for your LT1358 to "mature"? I just found mine (lost in with the other static bags), so I was thinking about testing the DAC output with my separate amps, to see how well it does. If it "matures" quickly, I might get it done right away. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks!_

 

Don't worry I completely understand what you did 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
 Concerning the lt1358, it was really a weird experience for me.
 At first playing some rock it sounded completely muddy, congested and undetailed, even compared to the stock opamp.
 I re-opened the box to put the 2604 and then the 1469 in the dac to compare it to my first impression of 1358 and found that there was indeed something not right with lt1358. 
 So I put lt1358 back in the dac (1364 always being in the headamp) and let the unit run for two hours.
 When I came back to listen the "compressed" sound wasn't there anymore but I really can't bring myself to believe that a mere two hours of burn-in could have changed it like that. Maybe I didn't put it quite right in the dac the first time and that made it behave badly (is that even possible???).
 Well now I have the lt1358+lt1364 combo in the zero and like ccschua said I find the sound to be really smooth while still being detailed, it's really pleasant.
 Penchum I (and maybe some others) would really appreciate it if you could make a comparison with opa627 in the dac, I'm really on the fence of buying opa627s so a comparison would be really welcome 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## P_1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jazz9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For the dac you need one dual opamp: the opa627 being a single one you need two of them on an adapter.
 For the headamp you need two dual opamps, one for each channel: the lt1364 is already a dual opamp so you only need two of them._

 

Are there two sockets for the headamp section or do I need an adapter?

 edit: nvm I looked at the pics there are two sockets.


----------



## tinseljim

I now have two extra OPA627aus. I was using them in the amp section (they fit absolutely fine because they're roughly the same size as a normal opamp) and now the 1364s have replaced them being slightly better all round. (still have the essential 627 in the DAC)

 I would like them to go to trusted people in this thread first before going to the for sale forum!

 PM with any offers. UK/EU head-fiers would benefit most I believe because of proximity.

 James


----------



## henryflower

Hi all:

 My Zero just arrived today, and I must say that even right out of the box this thing sounds really good. I had been driving my k701s with a mid 90's Spectral pro audio AD/DA converter, which I thought sounded really good (at least when compared to anything else I had around, Creek OBH-11, Tascam DA-P1, etc). The Zero really makes the AKGs sing. I can't wait to see how the sound develops as it burns in. Thanks Head-Fi!

 -Noah


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jazz9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't worry I completely understand what you did 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
 Concerning the lt1358, it was really a weird experience for me.
 At first playing some rock it sounded completely muddy, congested and undetailed, even compared to the stock opamp.
 I re-opened the box to put the 2604 and then the 1469 in the dac to compare it to my first impression of 1358 and found that there was indeed something not right with lt1358. 
 So I put lt1358 back in the dac (1364 always being in the headamp) and let the unit run for two hours.
 When I came back to listen the "compressed" sound wasn't there anymore but I really can't bring myself to believe that a mere two hours of burn-in could have changed it like that. Maybe I didn't put it quite right in the dac the first time and that made it behave badly (is that even possible???).
 Well now I have the lt1358+lt1364 combo in the zero and like ccschua said I find the sound to be really smooth while still being detailed, it's really pleasant.
 Penchum I (and maybe some others) would really appreciate it if you could make a comparison with opa627 in the dac, I'm really on the fence of buying opa627s so a comparison would be really welcome 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




._

 

Thanks for that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Opamps can be strange sometimes. I've had them sound really bad, and only a few hours later, sound much better. Others, can take 40-50 hours, like the OPA637's I just tested. I thought they'd never get done! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think a comparison is do-able, but I'll have to "mature" the LT1358 first, say maybe 50 hours? or so. I too will keep the LT1364's in the amp for this. If I start now, I could have it done during the weekend, "knock on wood". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think I'll go drop in that LT1358 right now, and get it cooking.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tinseljim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I now have two extra OPA627aus. I was using them in the amp section (they fit absolutely fine because they're roughly the same size as a normal opamp) and now the 1364s have replaced them being slightly better all round. (still have the essential 627 in the DAC)

 I would like them to go to trusted people in this thread first before going to the for sale forum!

 PM with any offers. UK/EU head-fiers would benefit most I believe because of proximity.

 James_

 

Good for you! Nothing better than keeping them in the "family".


----------



## ccschua

My first impression with LT 1358 in the DAC is also sorts of funny. I compare the LT1358 with the Marantz and found LT 1358 being warm, wider soundstage (the vocal comes out to you at wider angle) but at the expense of transparency. Mid is very much emphasized and smooth. I can hear the singer lips 'twisting' more clearly. But at the mid way of burning, I found funny tones of Aaron Neville as if he aged. sorts of like brown voice. 

 If you find fatigue in listening to music, give LT 1358 a try.


----------



## Jazz9

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My first impression with LT 1358 in the DAC is also sorts of funny. I compare the LT1358 with the Marantz and found LT 1358 being warm, wider soundstage (the vocal comes out to you at wider angle) but at the expense of transparency. Mid is very much emphasized and smooth. I can hear the singer lips 'twisting' more clearly. *But at the mid way of burning, I found funny tones of Aaron Neville as if he aged. sorts of like brown voice.* 

 If you find fatigue in listening to music, give LT 1358 a try._

 

Hummm i wouldn't want that...For now I like the lt1358 but they've been running for less than 10 hours, they're smooth enough as it is I wouldn't want them to become muddy. We'll see what happens I guess.


----------



## windrider

with the hd600s for lt1358s (compared to opa627), there is a little too much midbass and a slight lack of lowbass, especially noticeable because of the midbass emphasis. soundstage is also considerably smaller than opa627. these are my 2 biggest complaints with it. Although it is less tiring than the opa627 and has a nicer/smoother midrange, i find myself going back to the opa627s. opa627s just sound alot less "compressed" and more natural/3D with the bigger soundstage and greater sound spectrum in both directions.

 if i didnt have the opa627s the lt1358s would probably be the first choice in the dac though.


----------



## Jazz9

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *windrider* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_with the hd600s for lt1358s (compared to opa627), there is a little too much midbass and a slight lack of lowbass, especially noticeable because of the midbass emphasis. soundstage is also considerably smaller than opa627. these are my 2 biggest complaints with it. Although it is less tiring than the opa627 and has a nicer/smoother midrange, i find myself going back to the opa627s. opa627s just sound alot less "compressed" and more natural/3D with the bigger soundstage and greater sound spectrum in both directions.

 if i didnt have the opa627s the lt1358s would probably be the first choice in the dac though._

 

I only tried opa2604, lt1358 and lt1469 in the dac so I can't talk about opa627.

 I don't find lt1358 compressed anymore, I don't know what happened the first time but right now I find them dynamic enough, detailed (more than the 2 others) while being smooth and warm.
 With opa2604 and lt1469 after just a few minutes my ears feel "pressured", it's as if I'm not listening to people singing but screaming (I'm probably going too far but you get the idea 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ).

 LT1358, while maybe not the best "technically" (and I don't even know about that, stat sheets and I don't speak the same language), seems to be effortless in the way it sounds, really musical.
 But that's just me and my ears and I could be totally wrong "objectively" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 And of course you have to take into account the fact that I haven't listened to a lot of opamps (an impressive total of 3 for the dac), and opa627 could very well be way better.


----------



## Shlonglor

Will the Zero be able to function as a source for small desktop stereo speakers? Is this feasible at all?

 Also, how hard is it to open up the case, replace the amp opamps and return everything to working order? I understand there's no soldering involved, but I'm hesitant to do something like this to a new piece of hardware.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shlonglor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Will the Zero be able to function as a source for small desktop stereo speakers? Is this feasible at all?_

 

Yep. If your desktop speakers have a 1/8 plug then buy a RCA to 1/8 cable and then buy a 1/8 female to female connector. I have my cheapo desktop speakers connected this way. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shlonglor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, how hard is it to open up the case, replace the amp opamps and return everything to working order? I understand there's no soldering involved, but I'm hesitant to do something like this to a new piece of hardware. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Not that hard to do. Just remove the screws holding the top on. The opamps are a little hard to get out only because they are so small. They are much smaller than they look in the pics.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Navyblue* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When LT1364 is used on the amplifier section, how does it compare to LD Mk I or LD Mk V. Is the difference subtle or obvious? Especially in the sound stage and instrument separation aspect._

 

I get a better sound stage at the least using my MKV over using the built-in HP amp, both using my Denon's and K701's (see sig). I've also found that even upgrading the power cables to both the ZERO and MKV to thicker gauge ones made an improvement.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lamora* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see most people are using fullsize headphones with the zero, has anyone tried it with etymotic ER-4S/P? I am intending to buy both as soon as i can sell my xbox 360 to someone who'll find more use for it than i do. They will be used for gaming and music._

 

I plugged in my UE 10 triple.fi's and the result was quite a bit of hiss. Since they came with a...damn i forgot what you call them - inline resistor you can plug in between the 'phones and an amp, I used that when listening with them and the sound was very good.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Almoxil* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ If your MacBook has coaxial or optical outputs, you'll be fine (sorry, haven't had the chance of using a MacBook). Oh, and there are some USB to SPDIF adapters that may work if your MacBook doesn't have the outputs._

 

Mac notebooks have a dual-function headphone socket. The kind of cable you need is a Toslink to Mini optical. The ZERO has a Toslink socket and the headphone socket of the Mac doubles as a mini-optical socket. 

 Unfortunately most optical cables use cheap and nasty $2 adaptors for the mini-optical and sound a bit crap. I recall Penchum saying he got good results from a reasonably priced glass optical cable, the link of which I don't have handy. In my case, I got the Van Den Hul Optocoupler (which costs about as much as the basic ZERO!) and the result has been amazing.


----------



## PeterDLai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I plugged in my UE 10 triple.fi's and the result was quite a bit of hiss. Since they came with a...damn i forgot what you call them - inline resistor you can plug in between the 'phones and an amp, I used that when listening with them and the sound was very good._

 

A sound level attenuator is what you're thinking of I believe...


----------



## wquiles

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PeterDLai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A sound level attenuator is what you're thinking of I believe..._

 

Unfortunately sometimes these inline "resistors" do affect the sound quality - your mileage might vary


----------



## Currawong

Whatever one came with my triple.fi's seemed not to, or at least the loss of the hissing improved things enough.


----------



## BigSurSpoon

Is there some kind of warranty on this thing? I bought mine about a month ago and it was working great and I loved it, but one morning, I turn it on and after about 5 minutes, I start to smell something funky. I try to play some music and nothing happens. So I open it up and I can feel the heat coming out of this thing. So naturally, I start to touch things and once I feel the transformer, well, long story short: ouch. I guess the transformer overheated. Anyone else with this problem? This was all stock, I didn't change out the opamps or anything.


----------



## Lamora

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I plugged in my UE 10 triple.fi's and the result was quite a bit of hiss. Since they came with a...damn i forgot what you call them - inline resistor you can plug in between the 'phones and an amp, I used that when listening with them and the sound was very good._

 

I guess this is akin to using the the S cable with the ER-4P's or just using the ER-4S'?


----------



## Shlonglor

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mac notebooks have a dual-function headphone socket. The kind of cable you need is a Toslink to Mini optical. The ZERO has a Toslink socket and the headphone socket of the Mac doubles as a mini-optical socket. 

 Unfortunately most optical cables use cheap and nasty $2 adaptors for the mini-optical and sound a bit crap. I recall Penchum saying he got good results from a reasonably priced glass optical cable, the link of which I don't have handy. In my case, I got the Van Den Hul Optocoupler (which costs about as much as the basic ZERO!) and the result has been amazing._

 

I thought digital light = digital light and difference in quality is imaginary. That's what I read a while ago in this thread, at least...
 Has anyone tried the PCLink thing snow bundles with the Zero?
 Penchum?


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shlonglor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought digital light = digital light and difference in quality is imaginary. That's what I read a while ago in this thread, at least...
 Has anyone tried the PCLink thing snow bundles with the Zero?
 Penchum? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The logic that 1's are 1's and 0's are 0's makes sense in a computer that only has to store the data, but in a circuit that is responding to imperfect digital signals, straight away translating them into an audio signal, it makes a noticeable difference.


----------



## Shlonglor

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The logic that 1's are 1's and 0's are 0's makes sense in a computer that only has to store the data, but in a circuit that is responding to imperfect digital signals, straight away translating them into an audio signal, it makes a noticeable difference._

 

What's imperfect about the digital audio steam that gets outputted to the USB?

 I have a digital out in my desktop computer, but I'll be using the pclink adapter with my laptop. Will there be a noticeable difference?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigSurSpoon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there some kind of warranty on this thing? I bought mine about a month ago and it was working great and I loved it, but one morning, I turn it on and after about 5 minutes, I start to smell something funky. I try to play some music and nothing happens. So I open it up and I can feel the heat coming out of this thing. So naturally, I start to touch things and once I feel the transformer, well, long story short: ouch. I guess the transformer overheated. Anyone else with this problem? This was all stock, I didn't change out the opamps or anything._

 

Contact your seller and tell them what happened. Depending on who it was, generally they will work with you to get things fixed up. Lawrence has been good about this, but I'm not sure about the others.


----------



## Shlonglor

I'm also looking for a digital cable. Lawrence offered me a Belden Silver cable Rhodium plating RCA plug for 45$. Is it worth it? Will there be any difference over something... a lot cheaper?


----------



## Leto Atreides II

If it has ~75Ohms impedance, any cable will do. That's really the only difference between a digital and any other RCA cable.


----------



## koppite

About to place my order-- should I be getting an opamp upgrade or is that not needed?


----------



## Golden Monkey

See, I knew you'd find your way to the appropriate thread, koppite! 

 If you can afford to, go for the upgrades!


----------



## windrider

you can get "free" lt opamp samples so thats a definite must imo.

 lme49720s samples are "free" too except for the shipping i think.

 opa627s have to be bought; IMO its a worthy buy but doesn't hurt to try out the others first.

 to me they sound MUCH better than the stock opamps; the sound was much smoother/less grainy with any of the above compared to stock.


----------



## koppite

OK! Just dropped $300 on the upgrades! Now it's time to wait!!

 (He's not ripping me off, right? That's the normal price?)


----------



## ciphercomplete

What on earth did you get? Or was it $300 total for the DAC and the opamp upgrades?


----------



## koppite

300 Total.

 So it seems like the Van Den Hul Optocupler is going to be the best way to go. Is there a difference between using this out of my macbook and using the PCLink?


----------



## alfo

I ordered the zero from Lawrence a few days ago together with the opa 627. I'm replacing my headroom microamp that fried.
 As my senn 650 collect dust, I'm killing the wait time by reading this thread: page 176, 200+ to go and by the time I get here there will be more, so keep writing


----------



## AudioPhewl

I've received my Zero DAC today. It's a good-sounding little box, it really is. Swapped all the opamps out for OPA2134, which are about the nicest 'sounding' dual opamps I have sitting around right now.

 I've always been a fan of the LT1028 single opamps - they sound incredibly clear, and the most 'natural' sounding opamp I've heard - but I'm very out-of-touch with opamps these days - have tried the OPA627, which I felt was a little "wooly" sounding - I guess I'm not so keen on the 'warm' sound most people aspire to 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 I've seen the list of opamps on the first page, with comments like "Good" and "Great", but that doesn't really answer my query - what opamps should I be looking for, to find a sound like the LT1028? Should I order 6 fresh LT1028s and adapter boards? I don't really want to, because they specify a maximum of 24v, but this little box puts out a total of 30v to the opamps... I guess that's why an earlier post comments on how hot they run!

 Also... it may be covered here already(388 pages... this should be broken up into a "review" thread with opinions, and another for mods and opamp discussion) , but are there any easy mods? In the past, I've always replaced the coupling caps for little polyester caps. Is it worth me removing the boards from the DAC and tracing the audio signal, or are they already polyester? There are a *lot* of little square caps in there already...!!

 Thanks!

 Phewl


----------



## ianp

Hee. I just ordered a second unit. The first is now seeing full-time service hooked up to my tube amp, replacing a monica DAC. The second will be a headphone amp ... I promise.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koppite* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_300 Total.

 So it seems like the Van Den Hul Optocupler is going to be the best way to go. Is there a difference between using this out of my macbook and using the PCLink?_

 

What do you mean by "PCLink"? Make sure you're getting the Toslink to Mini Optical version of the Optocoupler for your MacBook. The Toslink end will go into the ZERO and the Mini Optical goes into your headphone socket.


----------



## StratCat

@AudioPhewl + ianp: 

 May I ask which vendor you ordered your Zero from, and how long it took for final delivery?

 I just ordered an un-modded unit earlier during this week from Lawrence, but now that I've finished reading this entire thread, I was wondering if I might've been gotten a faster turn-around time (and saved a few bux) by going thru _"wsz0304"_ from the Shenzhen Audio ebay store?

_Edit:_ You may PM me, at your descretion, if you prefer to keep vendor discussion private, or out of the main technical thread


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've received my Zero DAC today. It's a good-sounding little box, it really is. Swapped all the opamps out for OPA2134, which are about the nicest 'sounding' dual opamps I have sitting around right now.

 I've always been a fan of the LT1028 single opamps - they sound incredibly clear, and the most 'natural' sounding opamp I've heard - but I'm very out-of-touch with opamps these days - have tried the OPA627, which I felt was a little "wooly" sounding - I guess I'm not so keen on the 'warm' sound most people aspire to 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 I've seen the list of opamps on the first page, with comments like "Good" and "Great", but that doesn't really answer my query - what opamps should I be looking for, to find a sound like the LT1028? Should I order 6 fresh LT1028s and adapter boards? I don't really want to, because they specify a maximum of 24v, but this little box puts out a total of 30v to the opamps... I guess that's why an earlier post comments on how hot they run!

 Also... it may be covered here already(388 pages... this should be broken up into a "review" thread with opinions, and another for mods and opamp discussion) , but are there any easy mods? In the past, I've always replaced the coupling caps for little polyester caps. Is it worth me removing the boards from the DAC and tracing the audio signal, or are they already polyester? There are a *lot* of little square caps in there already...!!

 Thanks!

 Phewl_

 

Beware of ANDREA. If anyone with less than 25 posts starts telling you about the wonders of their Opamps, it is ANDREA under an assumed name. Just ignore him until the moderators can delete him and delete his posts. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This thread grew at an enormous rate and was way too big to separate by the time we realized there might be real benefits to it. So, we just keep plugging away.


----------



## Navyblue

Why don't you start a review thread on how good is your Super Pro 707 and include a comparison on how crappy is the Zero? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Btw, I pity people who have no have no life or self-respect.


----------



## Navyblue

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jmooo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not surprised that people like you jump on the bandwagon of this thread and look no further._

 

Unfortunately your assertions are incorrect.

 First, I have yet to jump in the bandwagon.

 Second, I am still looking around.

 In fact I have no idea if Zero is a good DAC. But I could tell a mature individual if I see one.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jmooo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It does work perfectly with supplies of +/-15V, read the datasheet carefully!_

 

My apologies, I was going from memory. Could have sworn it was rated at +/-12v - I was so certain that I'd read this, I dropped the voltage feeding them in my diy headphone amp to +/-12v rather than +/-15v.

 Damnit, they sounded really sweet at 15v too. All this time my ears have been crippled for no good reason! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 Similar sounding opamps? The LT1358 is similar enough, and works perfectly in the DAC board. The THS4031 (dual is THS4032) is rather similar (and very good) too. 
 

Both sound similar to the LT1028. My recollection is that THS4032 appeared to give more detail on first impressions, but continued-listening revealed some 'wrong' sounds. It was a while ago, and I can't really put my finger on it...

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@AudioPhewl + ianp: 

 May I ask which vendor you ordered your Zero from, and how long it took for final delivery?_

 

I'm in the UK, and I dealt with a lady in China who goes by the username 'snow48_6'. Took ~15 days to be delivered, but I think she sat on the order for the first 3/4 days going by her recent feedback - people who ordered 3 days after me received it on the same day.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jmooo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How do you find the OPA2134 to sound, compared to the stock OPA2604?

 Recently I tested the OPA2132 in an amp, and I found it to sound much better (there) than a much harder sounding LT1364. The LT1358, however, is better than both (there)._

 

IMO, there is a difference, but it isn't huge. It's comparable to the difference between any other 2 good audio opamps. Biggest difference IMO is the midrange has stronger presentation, and the sound has a bigger feel to it.

 My comments aren't particularly strong, I powered the Zero up and loved the sound. Whipped the lid off after a couple of hours use and swapped the opamps back and forth a few times - there was a difference, but I didn't use the OPA2604 long enough to give a detailed comparison.

 Bloody IC sockets are a really tight fit on the legs of the IC. They have to be perfectly matched, or they'll bend over themselves very easily.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Beware of ANDREA. If anyone with less than 25 posts starts telling you about the wonders of their Opamps, it is ANDREA under an assumed name. Just ignore him until the moderators can delete him and delete his posts. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Who, or what, is Andrea? Someone trying to plug their product?

 Anyway, back on topic. I may just order some more LT1028s. I'll have to price up 6 of them(!), as well as the single-to-dual adapter boards.

 ~Phewl


----------



## AudioPhewl

Just to add that I've bypassed the 4xElna caps on the DAC board, and the 2 on the amplifier board. DC offset remains at 0.002v, which is the same as it was before bypassing.

 Difficult to describe the difference. If going from the OPA2604 to an OPA2134 yielded a 5% improvement(which is probably fairly accurate IMO), then bypassing these capacitors yields in excess of a 10% improvement. It's like opening a clean, translucent window - everything is the same, but you get the smell of outdoors as well...

 One thing to note is that my DAC board didn't have the red Elna caps in the below pic, it had black and gold ones(ES?). The headphone amplifier had a pair of red ones, as per the below picture.





 ~Phewl


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ko!* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Please try those LT1028 and tell us! I'll be just a silent reading presence from now on..._

 

I'd love to, but I don't have any adapter s-to-d boards. I could construct one myself, but I don't have any of the "turned pin" edge connectors, just the pressed metal ones. They'll not fit the sockets fitted inside the DAC.

 Plus, money isn't free-flowing at the moment. 3x adapter boards and 6x opamps soon add up, especially with shipping. We're in the middle of a "credit crunch" over here in Britland 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## ianp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@AudioPhewl + ianp: 

 May I ask which vendor you ordered your Zero from, and how long it took for final delivery?

 I just ordered an un-modded unit earlier during this week from Lawrence, but now that I've finished reading this entire thread, I was wondering if I might've been gotten a faster turn-around time (and saved a few bux) by going thru "wsz0304" from the Shenzhen Audio ebay store?

Edit: You may PM me, at your descretion, if you prefer to keep vendor discussion private, or out of the main technical thread_

 

I've purchased both units via wsz0304's ebay store. The most recent order was shipped and an EMS tracking number provided within 36 hours of me pressing 'buy it now' and making payment. 

 I ordered the first unit back in February and it took less than a week to arrive once it had been shipped to me. If memory serves, the EMS number takes a few days to work its way through the system. It showed up on the EMS site when it hit San Francisco airport and it was delivered to me the next day. 

 The first unit was double-boxed and arrived in perfect condition. I have had no issues with the unit itself. Hopefully, the second will be the same. I'll post again when the second unit arrives.


----------



## ianp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just to add that I've bypassed the 4xElna caps on the DAC board, and the 2 on the amplifier board. DC offset remains at 0.002v, which is the same as it was before bypassing.

 Difficult to describe the difference. If going from the OPA2604 to an OPA2134 yielded a 5% improvement(which is probably fairly accurate IMO), then bypassing these capacitors yields in excess of a 10% improvement. It's like opening a clean, translucent window - everything is the same, but you get the smell of outdoors as well..._

 

A couple of questions here:
Did you allow burn in the ZERO prior to adding the bypass caps ? General consensus is that you need to burn in the existing components for 100 or so hours before they stabilise. I'm wondering if the changes you hear could be caused by the burn in rather than the bypassing?
I like tinkering with caps, so I might have to try this. Did you use 'audiophile grade' 0.22nF polybox caps? Do you have any images of how you are mounting the bypass caps? They existing caps look closely mounted on the PCB, such that adding new caps in // may be a bit tricky.







 Thanks


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ianp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A couple of questions here:
 Did you allow burn in the ZERO prior to adding the bypass caps ? General consensus is that you need to burn in the existing components for 100 or so hours before they stabilise. I'm wondering if the changes you hear could be caused by the burn in rather than the bypassing?_

 

X2!


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ianp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A couple of questions here:
Did you allow burn in the ZERO prior to adding the bypass caps ? General consensus is that you need to burn in the existing components for 100 or so hours before they stabilise. I'm wondering if the changes you hear could be caused by the burn in rather than the bypassing?
I like tinkering with caps, so I might have to try this. Did you use 'audiophile grade' 0.22nF polybox caps? Do you have any images of how you are mounting the bypass caps? They existing caps look closely mounted on the PCB, such that adding new caps in // may be a bit tricky.

 Thanks_

 

Hi Ian,

 Nah. I'm not a big believer of 'burn in'. I definitely believe in components having a different sound when cold, and that a capacitor will be tighter when warm. But as for burn-in... nope. Burn-in with modern electronics, IMO, is just the ears of a listener becoming accustomed to the nuances of a particular piece of equipment.

 Headphones and speakers, on the other hand... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 DAC had been in use for ~24 hours before I removed the PCB and mounted the bypass caps. I listened to it for ~20 minutes, flipped the PCB over and removed the bypass caps - the change in sound definitely results from the bypass caps rather than the 'burn-in' of the caps. Distinctly, definitely, 110%.

 As for mounting them... remove the lid. Remove the 4 screws(2x silver, 2x black) holding the rear plate to the chassis. Looking from above, the DAC PCB has 5(IIRC) screws mounting it to the chassis. Ignore the top left-hand screw, nearest the mains voltage selection switch, as the mount the screw bites into is not held from the other side.

 Remove the 4 screws, and flip the PCB assembly over. There you'll see the solder joints for the 4 Elna caps. Take your favourite polybox and snip the legs down to 2mm or so, they fit perfectly when laid on their side. All four can be uniformally-mounted in the same direction - away from the edge of the PCB.

 Next time I have the lid off, I'll take a couple of pictures. I used the same method to mount them on the amplifier PCB. They're just generic little blue 220nF polyboxes from my local small-time electronics supplier. To my ears, and my multimeter, they offer the best sound-per-pound(penny!) as coupling capacitors and still effectively block any DC offset. They give a totally neutral and balanced sound compared to electrolytics(I've sampled Elna Cerafine,Eelna RJH, Rubycon ZA/ZL, Panasonic FC/FM), IMO. They are, by far, the closest sounding to a 'no capacitor' solder joint, IMHO.

 I'd recommend leaving the original capacitors in place if you can - it takes a lot of heat to desolder them from the ground plane. A hell of a lot more patience, heat, solder and sucking to remove enough to clear the mounting holes up again. I successfully removed one, and ended up putting it back rather than attacking the other three - b'stards-law dictates that I'd stuff up the final one, and end up with a scrap new toy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ETA - just realised I wrote 0.22nF on the picture. My bad. They are 220nF polyboxes. I've just looked and checked on my invoice. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## ianp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Ian,
 Remove the 4 screws, and flip the PCB assembly over. There you'll see the solder joints for the 4 Elna caps. Take your favourite polybox and snip the legs down to 2mm or so, they fit perfectly when laid on their side. All four can be uniformally-mounted in the same direction - away from the edge of the PCB._

 

D'oh. Didn't think about mount them underneath the PCB. It seems a pretty easy and cheap mod. Thanks for the correction on the value of the caps. I'll have a look round for similar thing on this side of the pond.

 Thanks


----------



## AudioPhewl

No problem Ian. It's well worth trying - it's invisible and very simple to do, so if it makes no difference, or - shock horror - sounds worse to your ears, it's a doddle to undo. If it works, then everything can still look neat and tidy to the untrained eye. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## oatmeal769

Anyone following the 'Fake OPA 627BP' scandal might want to read what I found about a set I have...

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/fak...ml#post4367751


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone following the 'Fake OPA 627BP' scandal might want to read what I found about a set I have...

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/fak...ml#post4367751_

 

I saw that! I'm glad Tube_buyer's seem to be ok. Sorry you got the screw on the other ones!


----------



## ccschua

On the DAC section.

 I guess I have enuf opamp rolling.

 LM 4562, LT 1057, LT 1358, LT 1469, LT1361, LME49720, OPA 627, and DY2000.

 My impression with overall opamp is either

 DY2000, LT 1358 LT 1057, LM 4562.

 My setup is now DY2000 and period. DY2000 offer very sweet midrange, yet detail and dynamics.

 Now can I know if the ZERO DAC clock is good enuf. Does it warrant a clock upgrade such as TXCO.
 -----
 TCXO Clock Upgrade for even deeper and better-controlled bass, better resolution, faster transients, [Add $20.00]

 -----

 what do you think and how to do it?


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now can I know if the ZERO DAC clock is good enuf. Does it warrant a clock upgrade such as TXCO.
 -----
 TCXO Clock Upgrade for even deeper and better-controlled bass, better resolution, faster transients, [Add $20.00]_

 

Where did you see / find this???


----------



## windrider

where to get dy2000 samples, if its possible at all?

 couldn't find them on google.


----------



## dosquito

Lots of usb dacs can only do 16-bit because they are limited by the usb reciever...can this dac do true 24-bit? 

 also, i really hate to ask cause almost all of my posts have been about it lately, but could someone do a quick "technical" comparison of the components in this to what is offered in "the bloat"

HIPPOhifi - The Bloat

 I know the bloat is a lot smaller. Are they comparable products?

 edit: i see that this isn't a usb dac! i already have an x-fi elite pro...will this simply plug into that, using it as a digital transport? and if that's the case will I not lose any features of my elite pro? seems like it might be a better option

 i will be using the hd580

 please reply fast as I may have to cancel my bloat order

 thanks!


----------



## ianp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where did you see / find this???_

 

Looks oddly like the text from the audiomagus site for the citypulse DACs they sell.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where did you see / find this???_

 

U can get this from Eddie Wu or Lawrence. Lawrence price is more expensive.

 but I think DY2000 is not for headamp use.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dosquito* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lots of usb dacs can only do 16-bit because they are limited by the usb reciever...can this dac do true 24-bit? 

 also, i really hate to ask cause almost all of my posts have been about it lately, but could someone do a quick "technical" comparison of the components in this to what is offered in "the bloat"

HIPPOhifi - The Bloat

 I know the bloat is a lot smaller. Are they comparable products?

 edit: i see that this isn't a usb dac! i already have an x-fi elite pro...will this simply plug into that, using it as a digital transport? and if that's the case will I not lose any features of my elite pro? seems like it might be a better option

 i will be using the hd580

 please reply fast as I may have to cancel my bloat order

 thanks!_

 

If your X-Fi has the flexi-jack (top one on the back panel), you are in business. It does coaxial digital output (set in the software). All you need is a 3.5 mono to RCA adapter, plug this into a digital coaxial cable and into the flexi-jack, plug the coaxial's other end into the Zero.

 The X-Fi's work very well as a digital transport, so there is no need to spend additional bucks on something else (IMHO of course).

 The Zero uses 1% components, which is great considering it's low price point. It's not portable, but chances are you'd be listening at your place anyway, with nicer headphones than portables.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On the DAC section.

 I guess I have enuf opamp rolling.

 LM 4562, LT 1057, LT 1358, LT 1469, LT1361, LME49720, OPA 627, and DY2000.

 My impression with overall opamp is either

 DY2000, LT 1358 LT 1057, LM 4562.

 My setup is now DY2000 and period. DY2000 offer very sweet midrange, yet detail and dynamics.

 Now can I know if the ZERO DAC clock is good enuf. Does it warrant a clock upgrade such as TXCO.
 -----
 TCXO Clock Upgrade for even deeper and better-controlled bass, better resolution, faster transients, [Add $20.00]

 -----

 what do you think and how to do it?_

 

I don't believe anyone here has found any evidence that suggests the default clock is "wanting". As far as I know, there isn't a clock upgrade for the Zero, but I'll shoot an email to Lawrence and ask anyway. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Email sent, I'll post his reply when I get it.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sounds like a good plan (650's first). You can't go wrong with either choice, HDAM or OPA627 for the Zero. It's just a matter of what your willing to spend. I feel for you D, 60 % import tax ? That's robbery, plain and simple.

 Peete._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think it is your best first move. If the other purchases take time to complete, you'll still appreciate the improvements from having the HD-650. The more hours you can run them in advance, the better too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Those taxes are insane! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you for your reply Penchum!
 So I will move to 650 first indeed.... I'll try to do that by august....
 Yeah, those tax are insane.... guess how much I've paid for Zero DAC ?

 Almost $300.00_

 


 Hey guys, great news!!
 By the time I was asking you about which upgrade do first, a fellow brazilan Head-Fi'er, abrusc, noticed my interest on buying HD-650 and op amps upgrade for Zero DaC.......
 As he wanted to buy a new DAC, he PMed me about his HD-650, OPA627AP and LT1364.....
 Well, the guy is really a nice guy and we closed a very nice deal on his parts.
 It's already on the way, by monday I'll have the HD-650, OPA627 and LT1364 to use on Zero DAC.
 HD-650 is still like new, he had just got it.... only 10hrs of playing. So I'll have the pleasure of burning it in....

 That was so great! I'm very happy with it!
 Later I'll post my impressions comparing my current setup: Stock Zero / HD-555.
 With the new one.
 Everybody give an applause for abrusc for being such a great guy! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now it's only Little Dot MK 3 left......


----------



## dosquito

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If your X-Fi has the flexi-jack (top one on the back panel), you are in business. It does coaxial digital output (set in the software). All you need is a 3.5 mono to RCA adapter, plug this into a digital coaxial cable and into the flexi-jack, plug the coaxial's other end into the Zero.

 The X-Fi's work very well as a digital transport, so there is no need to spend additional bucks on something else (IMHO of course).

 The Zero uses 1% components, which is great considering it's low price point. It's not portable, but chances are you'd be listening at your place anyway, with nicer headphones than portables. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Sounds good!

 I have done some research and discovered that the OPAMP on the Bloat is more suited for HD580 (it's the AD8620) and it seems to have a very high quality dac (PCM1794)

 Now, do you think it's worth it to switch orders so I can use the digital out on my x-fi and the ability to have 24-bit sound (I don't believe any of my music is higher than 16-bit currently). to be honest i will feel like I am wasting my elite pro if I have a usb dac

 ps: is soldering required to swap opamps?

 thanks so much for your guys' advice! i have no idea how you survive in this confusing world of audio


----------



## P_1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What do you mean by "PCLink"? Make sure you're getting the Toslink to Mini Optical version of the Optocoupler for your MacBook. The Toslink end will go into the ZERO and the Mini Optical goes into your headphone socket._

 

Hes talking about this 
PCLINK USB-SPDIF FOR AUDIO 24BIT , UDA1321 / CS8405A - eBay (item 230262707764 end time Jun-23-08 09:46:43 PDT)

 Which I am also wondering about. Supposedly it can do 24bit 192Khz, but I'm worried about the jitter.


----------



## Jazz9

Has anyone tested the AD8599?
 Can it even be used with the zero?
 It seems to have good press: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/ad8...y-good-256805/


----------



## MinotaurUK

Has anyone tried using the headphone output in preamp mode as a second line out (to a second amp)? Connecting the headphone output to an amp does seem to yield a signal - but I'm not sure what signal path it's taking.


----------



## tinseljim

Hello Minontaur!

 Is this instead of the pre-outs at the back? If you press the preamp/phone button while the headphones are in it basically turns the headphone signal on/off. If you press preamp/phone without headphones it toggles between a set level output from the DAC and preamp with volume functionality. 

 Is that what you meant?

 James

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MinotaurUK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone tried using the headphone output in preamp mode as a second line out (to a second amp)? Connecting the headphone output to an amp does seem to yield a signal - but I'm not sure what signal path it's taking._


----------



## MinotaurUK

I was hoping it might emulate the pre-outs on the back when the headamp section is disabled, to enable connection to two separate amplifiers when the Zero is being used solely as a DAC.

 Alas, it would seem it doesn't seem to behave that way.

 Basically, I want to keep my LD MkIVse and MkV connected to the Zero at the same time, but I think the only way I can achieve that is to invest in some phono splitters to use off the pre-outs on the rear.


----------



## tinseljim

Yep that's the only way without using a seperate piece of equipment. i believe the sound will degrade though if you do this, at least it does when i add a headphone splitter into the line.

 The best way to do it would be to run the Zero into an integrated or preamp with pre/outs then go from that into your MkV and the take the tape loop out on the preamp into the MkIVse. This will also degrade sound a little as well and will depend on quality of the preamp/tape loop.

 When I want to use two amps I use an optical splitter and then have one optical cable going into my Yamaha surround processor (for DTS/Dolby Digital/movies which feeds my Aego5 system) and the other optical cable going into the Zero for listening to music. The preouts on the zero sound better than the Yamaha by a long way!


----------



## dosquito

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dosquito* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sounds good!

 I have done some research and discovered that the OPAMP on the Bloat is more suited for HD580 (it's the AD8620) and it seems to have a very high quality dac (PCM1794)

 Now, do you think it's worth it to switch orders so I can use the digital out on my x-fi and the ability to have 24-bit sound (I don't believe any of my music is higher than 16-bit currently). to be honest i will feel like I am wasting my elite pro if I have a usb dac

 ps: is soldering required to swap opamps?

 thanks so much for your guys' advice! i have no idea how you survive in this confusing world of audio 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

sorry guys, i hate to bother you, but i am in a bit of a hurry and could someone please do a quick comparison of the bloat (with all upgrades and the AD8620) and the zero dac (with an x-fi elite pro transport) when used with the HD580. I would really appreciate it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



HIPPOhifi - The Bloat


----------



## AudioPhewl

^Hang on - you're looking at purchasing one or the other. Why can't you do a "quick comparison"?

 ~Phewl.


----------



## dosquito

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^Hang on - you're looking at purchasing one or the other. Why can't you do a "quick comparison"?

 ~Phewl._

 

It's confusing for me! I've spent hours searching for the names of the amps/dacs on this site and got some good ideas, but there is so much to know. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So far, I've gathered that the Bloat has a better opamp (at least for the HD580) and dac, but is only capable of 16/48.

 Now, my music is almost all in 16/44.1. Is 24-bit audio something that I shouldn't really care about if I'm not really into hi-fi? I just want a good budget setup.

 Also, if I get the bloat it will essentially render my elite pro useless. Is there a signifcant advantage to using my elite pro as a digital transport to the zero?

 Furthermore, the thing that really confuses me is that the Bloat has to be about 1/10 the size of the Zero. For that reason, I believe there must be something that I am missing about this whole thing. Does the zero have some features that the bloat lacks entirely?

 I hope that clarifies my lack of clarity


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dosquito* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sorry guys, i hate to bother you, but i am in a bit of a hurry and could someone please do a quick comparison of the bloat (with all upgrades and the AD8620) and the zero dac (with an x-fi elite pro transport) when used with the HD580. I would really appreciate it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



HIPPOhifi - The Bloat_

 

Sorry, I was asleep. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I looked at the bloat and discovered I didn't know to much about it. All I could give you would be generic expectations that "we" as a group here have discovered about the Zero. Generally, a desktop DAC/Amp like the Zero is going to perform better, due to all the power it has available for the voltage swings associated with better dynamics. Portables have a tough time with this. Next, I suppose would be the quality of the headphone amp itself. Zero's is a dual mono design and is easily customized by swapping Opamps, to better work with your phones. It has quite a bit of power too, which is great for driving all kinds of phones. Portables can work pretty well in this category, but they aren't as flexible.

 With the Zero in demand, if you ordered one, got it, matured it, swapped Opamps (no soldering needed), and for some reason didn't like it, it will sell almost immediately. Chances are far better that you'll love it like the rest of us do, and never give this another thought.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dosquito* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's confusing for me! I've spent hours searching for the names of the amps/dacs on this site and got some good ideas, but there is so much to know. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So far, I've gathered that the Bloat has a better opamp (at least for the HD580) and dac, but is only capable of 16/48.

 Now, my music is almost all in 16/44.1. Is 24-bit audio something that I shouldn't really care about if I'm not really into hi-fi? I just want a good budget setup.

 Also, if I get the bloat it will essentially render my elite pro useless. Is there a signifcant advantage to using my elite pro as a digital transport to the zero?

 Furthermore, the thing that really confuses me is that the Bloat has to be about 1/10 the size of the Zero. For that reason, I believe there must be something that I am missing about this whole thing. Does the zero have some features that the bloat lacks entirely?

 I hope that clarifies my lack of clarity 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I hear what you saying, BUT, an Opamp number doesn't equate to better with a certain headphone. That is just too absurd. I could easily say the same thing about 3 or 4 different Opamps I've tried in the Zero. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Your X-FI makes a great transport. Might as well use it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Size is becoming less of an issue these days, due to types of batteries improving, HOWEVER, currently, a desktop DAC/Amp on A/C is going to have much more power available than a portable unit. Your noticing the 1/10th thing is still pretty valid. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yes, the Zero can act as a pre-amp, controlling a separate amplifier that uses speakers/headphones. It also cleans house, but my two are on strike.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^Hang on - you're looking at purchasing one or the other. Why can't you do a "quick comparison"?

 ~Phewl._

 

Phewl, is your avatar your scooter??


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tinseljim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep that's the only way without using a seperate piece of equipment. i believe the sound will degrade though if you do this, at least it does when i add a headphone splitter into the line.

 The best way to do it would be to run the Zero into an integrated or preamp with pre/outs then go from that into your MkV and the take the tape loop out on the preamp into the MkIVse. This will also degrade sound a little as well and will depend on quality of the preamp/tape loop.

 When I want to use two amps I use an optical splitter and then have one optical cable going into my Yamaha surround processor (for DTS/Dolby Digital/movies which feeds my Aego5 system) and the other optical cable going into the Zero for listening to music. The preouts on the zero sound better than the Yamaha by a long way!_

 

Hey tinseljim, have you found a source for a decent optical splitter?? I saw an optical switcher on parts express, but that is about all.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *P_1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hes talking about this 
PCLINK USB-SPDIF FOR AUDIO 24BIT , UDA1321 / CS8405A - eBay (item 230262707764 end time Jun-23-08 09:46:43 PDT)

 Which I am also wondering about. Supposedly it can do 24bit 192Khz, but I'm worried about the jitter._

 

Someone in this thread, recently purchased one of those and said it worked great. I see it does have the better chips, UDA1321 / CS8405A, so that is promising for the price.

 Jitter. This topic gets way too much play these days. There is a worry free way to control Jitter........don't worry about it. 

 I know that sounds laughable, but you have to look at the whole picture. If Jitter was ever an audible concern, it was during the 90's and those issues have been gone for a long time. Today, if Jitter was detectable, it would not be audible. 

 The bigger picture comes from the majority of users, which is: No one has ever heard Jitter for sure; and those that thought they did hear Jitter, actually heard something else that was going on, and figured it out later.

 For something in audio to be a real concern for the majority of users, it must be measurable and audible. If it isn't, it stands a better chance of surviving and being a fear, as a selling tactic.

 Remember the funny saying about *****? If it looks like *****, smells like *****, feels like *****, then it must be *****. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Jitter, just doesn't cut it.


----------



## dosquito

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hear what you saying, BUT, an Opamp number doesn't equate to better with a certain headphone. That is just too absurd. I could easily say the same thing about 3 or 4 different Opamps I've tried in the Zero. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Your X-FI makes a great transport. Might as well use it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Size is becoming less of an issue these days, due to types of batteries improving, HOWEVER, currently, a desktop DAC/Amp on A/C is going to have much more power available than a portable unit. Your noticing the 1/10th thing is still pretty valid. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yes, the Zero can act as a pre-amp, controlling a separate amplifier that uses speakers/headphones. It also cleans house, but my two are on strike. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








_

 

Thanks for your response!

 I am pretty sure that I will go with the Bloat to be headfi's guinea pig for the product, and also because I am getting a near $100 discount on the group buy.

 I doubt I'll be using 24-bit music any time soon and I don't do any heavy gaming, so I don't think I'll miss the X-fi's features (and I may even sell it).

 I contacted the owner of hippohifi and he said that the amp is designed to have good synergy with high impedance headphones, in particular the HD580/600/650.

 I'll report back to you guys when I get mine!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dosquito* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for your response!

 I am pretty sure that I will go with the Bloat to be headfi's guinea pig for the product, and also because I am getting a near $100 discount on the group buy.

 I doubt I'll be using 24-bit music any time soon and I don't do any heavy gaming, so I don't think I'll miss the X-fi's features (and I may even sell it).

 I contacted the owner of hippohifi and he said that the amp is designed to have good synergy with high impedance headphones, in particular the HD580/600/650.

 I'll report back to you guys when I get mine!_

 

That's cool! You could do a review on it then. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That's a pretty big discount too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Good luck!


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Phewl, is your avatar your scooter??_

 

Aye, daily thrashabout. Love it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Re: jitter - I was under the impression that it was only an issue(and a very small one at that) over a coaxial connection. Optical should result in perfect transmission, shouldn't it?

 --Phewl.


----------



## tinseljim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey tinseljim, have you found a source for a decent optical splitter?? I saw an optical switcher on parts express, but that is about all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It's interesting all this talk about optical cables not being any different from each other as it's only 1s and 0s going through the cable etc. When I added the splitter to the signal path it definitely added a bit more crackling and general noise. BUT this was only audible at ridiculous volume levels so it hasn't mattered all that much. Still when I do more critical listening I plug the VDH directly into the Zero.

 So basically I'm saying there probably are better splitters out there but for the small fee I paid for this one (Nikkai ~$7) it hasn't degraded the sound enough to warrant paying more. Especially as I use this just so I don't have to keep plugging the cable in and out of the Zero and surround processor. 

 Most look like this (same as mine):

http://www.tvcables.co.uk/images/items/tos_split.jpg


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Aye, daily thrashabout. Love it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Re: jitter - I was under the impression that it was only an issue(and a very small one at that) over a coaxial connection. Optical should result in perfect transmission, shouldn't it?

 --Phewl._

 

Well, there are posts all over the place about "Jitter". Claims are far and wide. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Like you, I like optical and have not had any issues with it. Yes, it should be perfect. I can't imagine how messed up something would have to be inorder for it to "drop" light pulses.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tinseljim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's interesting all this talk about optical cables not being any different from each other as it's only 1s and 0s going through the cable etc. When I added the splitter to the signal path it definitely added a bit more crackling and general noise. BUT this was only audible at ridiculous volume levels so it hasn't mattered all that much. Still when I do more critical listening I plug the VDH directly into the Zero.

 So basically I'm saying there probably are better splitters out there but for the small fee I paid for this one (Nikkai ~$7) it hasn't degraded the sound enough to warrant paying more. Especially as I use this just so I don't have to keep plugging the cable in and out of the Zero and surround processor. 

 Most look like this (same as mine):

http://www.tvcables.co.uk/images/items/tos_split.jpg_

 

This is the same one I've seen somewhere else too. I'm sure it works fine. Every now and again, I'll look around for better ones, but they are hard to find.


----------



## Shlonglor

I finally got the money and paypaled 180$ to Lawrence. Hello, Zero owners club! Now, to see about those alternate opamps...

 Thanks for your help, Penchum! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm hoping someone finds out whether or not the PCLink that comes with it is adequate soon.


----------



## StratCat

Wow, it looks like we've got a busy fast moving thread here with lots of good technical discussion. Nice. _Very Nice._ I'm glad I stumbled upon this forum and thread. Thank you again Penchum (and participants) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks AudioPhewl and ianp for quick and detailed responses.

 My response to these two quotes is *solely* based on this thread as a source for purchase and delivery info, and is simply a re-iterated synopsis of info I gleaned while reading it the last week _(Caveat emptor, YMMV, etc)_:

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_[...] I'm in the UK, and I dealt with a lady in China who goes by the username 'snow48_6'. Took ~15 days to be delivered, but I think she sat on the order for the first 3/4 days going by her recent feedback - people who ordered 3 days after me received it on the same day. [...]

 ~Phewl_

 

 Yes, I had some concearns about this vendor having some inconsistencies at a much earlier date in this thread, so I took a pass on her for my specific unit. Although, IMHO, 15 days, order to delievery, doesn't too seem unreasonable for a transaction of this nature. Since I can't accurately cite (read: locate again) other specific references off-the-top-of-my-head for other issues with this vendor, I'll leave it at this. In all fairness, it seems that at least two of the three vendors, that I'm aware of from this thread, did suffer turn-around and shipping issues during the Chinese New Year (early February, IIRC).

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ianp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've purchased both units via wsz0304's ebay store. The most recent order was shipped and an EMS tracking number provided within 36 hours of me pressing 'buy it now' and making payment. 

 I ordered the first unit back in February and it took less than a week to arrive once it had been shipped to me. If memory serves, the EMS number takes a few days to work its way through the system. It showed up on the EMS site when it hit San Francisco airport and it was delivered to me the next day. 

 The first unit was double-boxed and arrived in perfect condition. I have had no issues with the unit itself. Hopefully, the second will be the same. I'll post again when the second unit arrives._

 

 I hadn't been aware of this vendor at the time of my order, but since I ordered a completely bone-stock unit, I might have given this vendor a try, had I known, due to: A cheaper price (unit + shipping), several posts in this thread citing quick turn-around times, no significant negative issues I can remember seeing, and at least one or two posts from other Headfiers who did not order Zeros, but posted in this thread describing positive experiences with this vendor, including the ebay store he's affiliated with.

 +++

 O.K.,

 Since I commented upon two of the three vendors I've seen discussed in this thread, in all fairness to Lawrence (the third and most discussed vendor), I thought I should toss in a comment or two about what I've gleaned from this thread about him, and also announce a happy change-of-order-status for my personal unit ordered from him, which I'll describe in my next post (a little less than 72 hrs order-to-ship turn-around, including an active tracking number in the HKP system showing "item processed" and now "in transit").

 From my comments above concerning wsz0304, it might appear I am endorsing him as my personally chosen vendor. This isn't necessarily true, but, as stated above, I might use him for a completely stock unit. OTOH, Lawrence appears to have a proven track record, attempts to resolve issues when problems arise, and seems happy to provide a myriad of upgrades and upgrade advice far beyond simple op-amp upgrades. Most in this thread seem to believe him the most reliable vendor, or at least, the most "reliably known" and "most used". Penchum also stated that Lawrence claims to burn-in verify his units and does repairs for units sold by him as well as those purchased elsewhere, so for in-depth upgrades, mods, and upgrade advice, he appears to be the best (only?) game-in-town of the three vendors, as reflected by Headfiers in the text of the thread. Again, in fairness to all the vendors, there have been several negative minority comments I gleaned from the thread concerning Lawrence and his units (Chinese New Year, batch processing of orders), but they were far exceeded by the sheer number of positive and very positive (I'd even say "enthusiastic" in some cases) responses, and I'd hypothesize this would appear to be expected in a random sampling of purchasers in this type of transaction and should not be construed as a negative vendor rating.

 @Penchum: Hope I didn’t step on your thread, as this sort-of grew way more than I anticipated since I didn’t want to be anything less than perfectly fair and impartial concerning any public vendor discussion.


----------



## StratCat

Yes, Yes, Yes! Within 10 mins of my posting here to solicit vendor feedback early yesterday (Saturday CST) morning, I received an email from Lawrence confirming shipping of my Zero, and an HKP tracking number, where HKPs tracking site indicates my item has been “processed” and in is now currently in “transit”. My order turnaround was less than 72 hours, and I ordered thru Lawrence’s ebay account (not thru his personal email, tho we later communicated using his personal email account).

 So much for my concerns of a long turn-around time. His email indicates a 7-10 day ETA of my unit. Perhaps I’ll be one of the lucky one’s that slips thru customs w/o a stop-over clearance. I’ll update here when it arrives.

 Edit1: Did a quickie refresh of the HKP site, and it now displays another status line entry marked "_Processed for departure_". I assume the prior "transit" entry meant "transit to departure location", and the item is now awaiting final departure to SF.

 Edit2: Yep - "The item left Hong Kong for its destination on 23-Jun-2008"


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shlonglor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm hoping someone finds out whether or not the PCLink that comes with it is adequate soon._

 

My unit in transit should have the USB link ... ETA 7 or 8 days to my door (Chicago - USA), as of this post (less if it gets passed thru customs w/o a check), and I'll likely use it via USB as soon as I get it.


----------



## P_1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My unit in transit should have the USB link ... ETA 7 or 8 days to my door (Chicago - USA), as of this post (less if it gets passed thru customs w/o a check), and I'll likely use it via USB as soon as I get it._

 

Yea mine got shipped out yesterday as well. I'm in cali right now so I should be getting it earlier, I'll be posting my results with my ath-w5000's.


----------



## Henmyr

The Zero lawrence sells is an upgraded version correct? So maybe the additional cost over the cheaper sellers is money well spent. I do not know how much the upgrade does however. I belive that the toroid transformer in the Zeros from lawrance is bigger, and some caps are replaced, correct?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Aye, daily thrashabout. Love it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Snip
 --Phewl._

 

Here is my daily, but since my spinal fusion, the doc will not let me ride. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 One day, I hope to get back in the saddle.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Zero lawrence sells is an upgraded version correct? So maybe the additional cost over the cheaper sellers is money well spent. I do not know how much the upgrade does however. I belive that the toroid transformer in the Zeros from lawrance is bigger, and some caps are replaced, correct?_

 

Hummmm. It is true the ones Lawrence is selling, were upgraded starting back in January (I think). I'm unaware of anyone checking the other vendor's Zero's for the upgraded parts. Anyone???


----------



## Penchum

Did anyone hear that buzzing sound? Must be some kind of pest.


----------



## tfarney

Penchum -

 I'm sure it's in here somewhere, you'll have to forgive me for not reading all 394 pages! How does the SS amp in the Zero compare to your LD MKV?

 Tim


----------



## Navyblue

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tfarney* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Penchum -

 I'm sure it's in here somewhere, you'll have to forgive me for not reading all 394 pages! How does the SS amp in the Zero compare to your LD MKV?

 Tim_

 

I just asked him the same question recently, here is what he said. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Zero's amp vs MKV issue has been addressed before, but to summarize, the MKV is a much more refined headphone amp with better dynamics and purity of amplified signal. It should, it costs $300 compared to the Zero's whole unit cost of $139. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Penchum, may be you want to add this in the first post?


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't believe anyone here has found any evidence that suggests the default clock is "wanting". As far as I know, there isn't a clock upgrade for the Zero, but I'll shoot an email to Lawrence and ask anyway. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Email sent, I'll post his reply when I get it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hi, 

 do post your reply as you got it, quite eager to find out the claim if it is true. Basically TCXO stands for Temperature compensated Crystal Oxcillator. 

 Regarding Jitter, can I conclude this will not be present with the ( or minimal, not differential to human ears) digital optical connection.

 So jitter only happens to those CD player, which they need USD 3000 transport to get the signal correct ? Also the ZERO is able to reduce/remove the jitter to minimal (during D to A process, as found in the AD1852 specs sheet, http://www.analog.com/UploadedFiles/...ets/AD1852.pdf)


----------



## Enthusia

I might buy one of these or the Zhaolu, how do you guys think they compare? I heard the zero's weren't that durable and in one case on another forum a person who had one broke after a month.


----------



## Steph86

Hi, does anyone know how the zero compares to the keces 131, beresford or constantine?


----------



## Steph86

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scratch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There are a few better ones for the money._

 

What did you have in mind, my budget is around $400-450


----------



## DoubleEs

Can I ask you guys are you're using to take out the op amp from the socket? The reason I'm asking is because after reading the fake op amp thread in the DIY section, I took one mine out to test, using my chubby fingers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And in the process, nearly ripped the legs off the little bugger....and there's no way I'm doing that again coz they're kinda expensive to replace!!!!


----------



## JeffMac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoubleEs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can I ask you guys are you're using to take out the op amp from the socket? The reason I'm asking is because after reading the fake op amp thread in the DIY section, I took one mine out to test, using my chubby fingers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And in the process, nearly ripped the legs off the little bugger....and there's no way I'm doing that again coz they're kinda expensive to replace!!!!_

 

Yeah, I'd actually love to hear some ideas on this as well. I finally have all the op amps I want to try, and...er...I was just going to use a pair of pliers to try to pull the suckers straight upward. What would, say, a smarter person than I am do?


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Steph86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What did you have in mind, my budget is around $400-450_

 

Why not go to the DIY forum and look up the Opus and/or Buffalo dac. There is not a lot of DIY involved in making them by the looks of it, as most of the boards are already completed when you get them. I think you can make them single-ended for around $400-500. The immediate problem seem to be the availability.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here is my daily, but since my spinal fusion, the doc will not let me ride. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 One day, I hope to get back in the saddle. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Nice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Never been bitten by the "sit up and beg" riding bug, but I'll bet that sounds mean 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Shame about the doctors orders... what happened? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Better picture of my daily three-pot thrash:




 DAC buzzing - I can't hear it. But I do have physical vibrations from the toroidal. One can feel the buzzing when holding the unit.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoubleEs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can I ask you guys are you're using to take out the op amp from the socket? The reason I'm asking is because after reading the fake op amp thread in the DIY section, I took one mine out to test, using my chubby fingers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And in the process, nearly ripped the legs off the little bugger....and there's no way I'm doing that again coz they're kinda expensive to replace!!!!_

 

They are a *VERY* snug fit. In the absence of a proper IC puller, or a bent pair of tweezers, I'd suggest using a small flat-bladed screwdriver. Lever one side of the IC up, very gently, just a millimetre or so. Head to the other side of the IC and do the same, then back, and forth...

 Gentle actions and patience will get the opamps out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## Henmyr

I use a needle nose plier:
Needle-nose pliers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 Works very well.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, 

 do post your reply as you got it, quite eager to find out the claim if it is true. Basically TCXO stands for Temperature compensated Crystal Oxcillator. 

 Regarding Jitter, can I conclude this will not be present with the ( or minimal, not differential to human ears) digital optical connection.

 So jitter only happens to those CD player, which they need USD 3000 transport to get the signal correct ? Also the ZERO is able to reduce/remove the jitter to minimal (during D to A process, as found in the AD1852 specs sheet, http://www.analog.com/UploadedFiles/...ets/AD1852.pdf)_

 

I can't quote Lawrence directly, it was a long and detailed response, but to sum up the conversation, it went like this: 

 ”Nowadays the internal clock is good enough and it is not obvious even when we upgrade to 1ppm clock."

 He did tell me the Zero's clock is great and it is part of the chipset, so yes, that does answer your question above. 

 I agree with your conclusions on jitter. Jitter doesn't exist in the audible range with todays equipment. It is a "no" worry situation. There are those who will not agree with this, and that is "OK" and can't be helped. For them, jitter may always be a worry. 

 I for one, don't have the funds to keep throwing money at a problem that is at best, a rumor. I have to direct what little funds I can spend, into quality and flexability that have impact in the audible range, where I can get the most from them.

 If a person were investing thousands and thousands into a "top of the line" headphone system, then spending the extra for the best of specs out of every single internal item, would fall in line with what they are spending for the entire system. That doesn't mean all of it is worth the money, it just means that money, wasn't the object in the first place. They will be happy and I'll be happy for them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 With nice little units like the Zero, we get quality audio for very little money. It isn't plagued with problems from the past, it has features to make it flexible for today's usage, and it looks to be somewhat future proofed, at least for the next few years. It draws very little power and doesn't heat up very much. What is not to like about such a unit. Like I said in the review, everyone should have a little unit like the Zero!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_... what happened? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 DAC buzzing - I can't hear it. But I do have physical vibrations from the toroidal. One can feel the buzzing when holding the unit.

 ~Phewl._

 

It started with disc degenerative disease 30 years ago. I blew up the disc at L3, 4 years back, had surgery, long recovery, went back to riding and working for 1 year. Had an MRI and Cat Scan and my entire lower back was loose as a goose, so spinal fusion was to keep me from a wheel chair. While recovering, it was determined that scar tissue was forming around the nerves to my legs and lower back. Now it just hurts all the time. It isn't safe to rely on my legs and feet for controls, so I don't drive for now. I sure want to ride though!

 You are right, she sounds wonderful! Best way to spend a weekend. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you open up the Zero, loosen the nut that holds the toroidal down and see if there is a rubber pad underneath it. If it is tiny, you might put a thicker pad down to isolate it better from the case.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys, great news!!
 By the time I was asking you about which upgrade do first, a fellow brazilan Head-Fi'er, abrusc, noticed my interest on buying HD-650 and op amps upgrade for Zero DaC.......
 As he wanted to buy a new DAC, he PMed me about his HD-650, OPA627AP and LT1364.....
 Well, the guy is really a nice guy and we closed a very nice deal on his parts.
 It's already on the way, by monday I'll have the HD-650, OPA627 and LT1364 to use on Zero DAC.
 HD-650 is still like new, he had just got it.... only 10hrs of playing. So I'll have the pleasure of burning it in....

 That was so great! I'm very happy with it!
 Later I'll post my impressions comparing my current setup: Stock Zero / HD-555.
 With the new one.
 Everybody give an applause for abrusc for being such a great guy! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Now it's only Little Dot MK 3 left......_

 

That's funny how things work out sometimes. That's great D.....your almost done 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Steph86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What did you have in mind, my budget is around $400-450_

 

That was Andrea again. Andrea would rather we all bought portables.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Try to ignore those with under 10 posts that are making claims like they were in the know, or like this time, trying to draw anyone into a "this is better than that" conversation. Chances are almost 100%, it is Andrea under an assumed name again. How pathetic.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Nice bike Pench 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hope the back gets better soon so you can ride her a bit !!!

 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It started with disc degenerative disease 30 years ago._

 

Oh man, that bites. I'm sorry for your problems 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I know it's little consolation, but at least you've had the opportunity to enjoy life on two wheels - we all find a point in life where memories are about all we've got left. You've got the memories, and the chance to hopefully still ride in future - I can't imagine how thankful you'll be when you finally get to put your legs astride her! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 If you open up the Zero, loosen the nut that holds the toroidal down and see if there is a rubber pad underneath it. If it is tiny, you might put a thicker pad down to isolate it better from the case. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 

A very good point. I'll have a look in a minute. I had the case off earlier - I planned on swapping the blue LEDs out for greenies - the blue is so bright and unforgiving... it's a nuisance when I'm in bed trying to sleep. "Piercing" is a good term for it...

 Anyway, I didn't swap them over. I don't have any of the right shape - they're most certainly quite odd! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh man, that bites. I'm sorry for your problems 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I know it's little consolation, but at least you've had the opportunity to enjoy life on two wheels - we all find a point in life where memories are about all we've got left. You've got the memories, and the chance to hopefully still ride in future - I can't imagine how thankful you'll be when you finally get to put your legs astride her! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 A very good point. I'll have a look in a minute. I had the case off earlier - I planned on swapping the blue LEDs out for greenies - the blue is so bright and unforgiving... it's a nuisance when I'm in bed trying to sleep. "Piercing" is a good term for it...

 Anyway, I didn't swap them over. I don't have any of the right shape - they're most certainly quite odd! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 

Ow, yes the ultra bright blue lights. You NEED to do the resistor mod! I wish I could remember what page it's on, but I forgot to bookmark it. I have done both of my Zero's and it was very worth while. Anyone remember the page number???


----------



## AudioPhewl

Ah! A resistor mod sounds like an ideal fix! I really don't understand the fuss about these bright blue LEDs... I realise they were 'cool' for a while, but it's just a PITA.

 Anyway... this "Andrea"... does she have big jugs, or is a man with a ladies name? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah! A resistor mod sounds like an ideal fix! I really don't understand the fuss about these bright blue LEDs... I realise they were 'cool' for a while, but it's just a PITA.

 Anyway... this "Andrea"... does she have big jugs, or is a man with a ladies name? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 

Boy, maybe. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Here is the resistor mod: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...ml#post3738991


----------



## AudioPhewl

Superb! You, sir, are a star 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 I'm off to see what resistors I have lying around. Will look at insulating the toroid at the same time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 I reckon we should place a wanted ad for some jugs in this thread. Would help things out no-end, I'm sure 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Run.....run for your lives


----------



## oatmeal769

Speaking of LED's, what's with the red ones inside? Are they power soaks or something??
 The least they could do is make the top clear so we can see them.


----------



## AudioPhewl

I assumed they were just there to indicate logic - to make diagnosing a fault easier.

 What's more odd is the mute and reset microswitched at the top-end of the DAC board. Mute... mutes, and flashes the LED. The other one I didn't dare touch, in case it erased some flash firmware somewhere 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 I dare say it's just to reset the spdif receiver?

 Anyway, I've changed the LED resistors for 10k, and it's made a world of difference. Quite how anyone could decide that the standard values were useful, I'll never know...

 ~Phewl


----------



## Pricklely Peete

In rural China the bright LED's are used to supplement poor lighting in the one room shack ?

 Just kidding (maybe) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.

 PS-
 AudioPhewl: I have some Russian PIO caps laying around, (.047uf) is the smallest value I have. You think these could be used as bypass caps for the 4 elna's on the main board ?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I assumed they were just there to indicate logic - to make diagnosing a fault easier.

 What's more odd is the mute and reset microswitched at the top-end of the DAC board. Mute... mutes, and flashes the LED. The other one I didn't dare touch, in case it erased some flash firmware somewhere 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 I dare say it's just to reset the spdif receiver?

 Anyway, I've changed the LED resistors for 10k, and it's made a world of difference. Quite how anyone could decide that the standard values were useful, I'll never know...

 ~Phewl_

 

Many of the younger users like the bright blue LEDs. I'm too old school. As long as it "lights up" to tell me it is on or working, I'm happy.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I'm not keen on the bright blue ones either, but what the hell I'm too lazy to do something about that....change caps,bypass stuff...sure
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Holy cow Pench....not to long ago you passed 2000 posts, now your at 2700+....

 Peete.

 PS My post count creeps up one more


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I couldn't get the watermark out of the avatar...looks like a grenade though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In rural China the bright LED's are used to supplement poor lighting in the one room shack ?

 Just kidding (maybe) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

LMAO!! I've got visions of mud-huts and shanty-towns, illuminated by glaring-bright blue LEDs around the doorframes... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 AudioPhewl: I have some Russian PIO caps laying around, (.047uf) is the smallest value I have. You think these could be used as bypass caps for the 4 elna's on the main board ? 
 

Pass. Try them - you've nothing to lose other than undoing 10 screws and soldering at a funny angle, so as to avoid disconnecting all the leads 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 I've never tried anything as exotic as paper-in-oil capacitors. I've tried plenty of different electrolytics, and find them all to sound less neutral/natural than the polyester film ones...

 ~Phewl


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not keen on the bright blue ones either, but what the hell I'm too lazy to do something about that....change caps,bypass stuff...sure
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Put a piece of insulation tape over the front of the case. It's excellent at dimming the display 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Thanks Phewl , I'll give that mod a crack. I have some 25V 2700uf Panny FC's for the PSU to boot. Tape on the front ? That's ghetto for sure. I already have the cover off for the HDAM, guess it couldn't look any worse 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete. 

 PS Maybe I should have a bobble head poking out beside the HDAM module (back lit by the red LEDS) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 GHETTO 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Man I'm in a goofy mood today! Sleep deprivation...has to be...meds aren't out of date...


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Holy cow Pench....not to long ago you passed 2000 posts, now your at 2700+....

 Peete.

 PS My post count creeps up one more 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Now I know why my fingers hurt! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's been pretty lively, lately, trying to help out LD and Zero questions and such. As long as I'm helping, I don't mind though. Now that the portables are split off into their own forums, things should get a little easier. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 or not. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've got a ton of info to post, but I'm going to wait until Tuesday. I'm done reviewing all the stuff I've been busy with, so "you'll know you seen it, when you seen it, for sure."


----------



## vvanrij

Great avatar Pricklely Peete 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, and can't wait for the info Penchum!


----------



## Enthusia

So how does this compare to the Zhaolu dac, which is also made by an asian vendor?


----------



## Oya?

Hi Zero owners,

 I've never done any 'op-amp rolling' so sorry if this question comes off as somewhat dumb, or have been repeated (long thread!), but if I wanted to pick up, say, the OPA627s + LT1469 combo, how many of the latter would I need for the amp section? I noticed in the pics that the headamp board has 2 op-amps (I don't have a Zero myself, thinking of getting one, so wanted to grab some the OPA627s and the headamp op-amp(s) off Lawrence at the same time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).

 Thanks for the help.


----------



## Nedman

Hi, I have just purchased one of these [still in transit]. 

 Can the OPA627 Opamp be used in both the dac and the headphone amp sides?


----------



## vvanrij

yes, but you need 2 627's on a Brown Dog adapter, to replace 1 standard opamp.


----------



## Nedman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yes, but you need 2 627's on a Brown Dog adapter, to replace 1 standard opamp._

 

Thanks for your answer vvanrij 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .

 The Zero I have purchased is the upgraded version. But I am a little unsure what part exactly has been upgraded now. The vendor [Shenzhen Audio] seems to be having a little problem understanding the question. My guess is the person answering the question understands English, but not the more technical questions. Or it might be just me, not understanding the specs that have been given. All that is stated is "Analogy Opamp chip: OPA627(For old version it is OPA2604)". 

Tianyun ZERO Multifuction Decoders(Upgrade Version) - eBay, Speakers, Desktop Laptop Accessories, Computers Networking. (end time 02-Jul-08 19:35:55 AEST)

 It's not a big deal, I'll just pull off the cover myself when I get it, and have a look. If they have only been installed on the amp side. I'll just pull them out and get a Brown Dog adapter. Put them onto the DAC side, and get another pair of LM4562 for the amp side.

 Thanks again.


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I assumed they were just there to indicate logic - to make diagnosing a fault easier.

 What's more odd is the mute and reset microswitched at the top-end of the DAC board. Mute... mutes, and flashes the LED. The other one I didn't dare touch, in case it erased some flash firmware somewhere 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 I dare say it's just to reset the spdif receiver?_

 

Weird. Anyone else have any theories?? I'm thinking of a plexiglass top mod. The board is so well laid out, ant those LED's almost make it a showpiece. Besides, we're always in there for something or other, it'd be nice to have a top easier to remove.


----------



## Shlonglor

I paid Lawrence two days ago (he sent me a PayPal invoice) and I haven't heard from him since. Is this normal?

 Hmm, was I supposed to buy this "upgraded" version which costs less?...
Tianyun ZERO Multifuction Decoders(Upgrade Version) - eBay, Speakers, Desktop Laptop Accessories, Computers Networking. (end time 02-Jul-08 19:35:55 AEST)


----------



## MinotaurUK

Yes, it usually takes a couple of days for a tracking number to come through.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shlonglor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I paid Lawrence two days ago (he sent me a PayPal invoice) and I haven't heard from him since. Is this normal?

 Hmm, was I supposed to buy this "upgraded" version which costs less?...
Tianyun ZERO Multifuction Decoders(Upgrade Version) - eBay, Speakers, Desktop Laptop Accessories, Computers Networking. (end time 02-Jul-08 19:35:55 AEST)_

 

Lawrence usually will send you another email, when it ships, with a tracking number that will work for tracking via USPS or other postal service sites.

 I don't know. I just looked it over closely (pics and add) and it looks just like the current version. They do say OPA627 for the DAC, so maybe they consider that the "upgraded version". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If it is, then yes, it would be an upgrade in sound quality for the DAC. The headphone amp would still need some help in the Opamp department.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Weird. Anyone else have any theories?? I'm thinking of a plexiglass top mod. The board is so well laid out, ant those LED's almost make it a showpiece. Besides, we're always in there for something or other, it'd be nice to have a top easier to remove._

 

Back quite a ways in the thread, Kmel found out the LED's and two switches were for diagnostics, but I don't remember exactly how to use them.


----------



## Shlonglor

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lawrence usually will send you another email, when it ships, with a tracking number that will work for tracking via USPS or other postal service sites.

 I don't know. I just looked it over closely (pics and add) and it looks just like the current version. They do say OPA627 for the DAC, so maybe they consider that the "upgraded version". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If it is, then yes, it would be an upgrade in sound quality for the DAC. The headphone amp would still need some help in the Opamp department. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

OTOH, Lawrence also provides a PCLink and an optical cable. How much does the OPA627 cost?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nedman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, I have just purchased one of these [still in transit]. 

 Can the OPA627 Opamp be used in both the dac and the headphone amp sides?_

 

There are two reasons not to do this. One, the size of the adapters varies and not all of them will fit, two, the results are not that great, according to a couple of folks that have tried it. Cost would be a third I guess.

 See if you can get a couple of LT1364's and try them in the headphone amp. I think you'll like it.


----------



## Navyblue

This might be a weird question, anyone compared the Zero as source to a iPod Classic line out?


----------



## Shlonglor

I can't find the page with your post about which one's the LT1364 that fits (or is better?). Which one was it?
Linear Technology - LT1364 - Dual and Quad 70MHz, 1000V/µs Op Amps LT1364 LT1364CN8#PBF LT1364CS8#PBF LT1364CS8 LT1364CS8#TR LT1364CS8#TRPBF LT1364CN8

 What's the difference between the variants, really?


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shlonglor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I paid Lawrence two days ago (he sent me a PayPal invoice) and I haven't heard from him since. Is this normal?

 [...]
_

 

I bought mine thru Lawrence's ebay store very early last Wednesday morning. I immediately received auto-generated responses from PayPal and Ebay stating payment disbursed and purchase confirmed, respectively. I then fired off a quick email to Lawrence at his msn.com addy concerning configuration clarification (Would my unit have the USB link?). Lawrence responded with a positive reply in 10 mins. I then heard nothing for nearly three days, but awoke Saturday morning to find I had received an an email from him several minutes after midnight, Friday, stating my unit had shipped. This email aslo included a tracking number.

 <paste Lawrence's email>

_Dear Sir ,

 Your parcel is on the way , tracking no CPXXXXXXXXXHK , Hongkong Post é¦™æ¸¯éƒµæ”¿ , air mail( 7-10 days ) . Please let me know when you receive it .

 Thank you very much !

 Best regards,

 Lawrence_

 </paste Lawrence's email>

 After entering the tracking number, Saturday morning, in Hong Kong Post's tracking site, I found it to be an active number indicating my unit was "in transit". HKP's site updated two days later (very early Monday morning) to show my unit was processed for departure, and several hours later it updated again to reflect my unit had departed Hong Kong. There has been no further updating of my unit's progress reflected on HKP's site for the past 36 hours.

 <HKP tracking paste>

_Outward Ordinary Parcel 

 Item Number: CPXXXXXXXXXHK Posting DateDrop-off PointOrigin
 21-Jun-2008Cheung Sha Wan Counter OfficeCheung Sha Wan Counter Office

 Date #LocationDelivery Status
 21-Jun-2008Hong KongItem posted and is being processed.
 21-Jun-2008Hong KongIn transit.
 23-Jun-2008Hong KongProcessed for departure.
 23-Jun-2008Hong KongThe item left Hong Kong for its destination on 23-Jun-2008_

 </HKP tracking paste>

 My experience to date, FWIW.


----------



## fran

Haven';t searched here but would some diamond buffers from say a revMH millet work instead of the opamps?


 Fran


----------



## Shlonglor

Thanks StratCat.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shlonglor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks StratCat._

 

No problem, Shlonglor


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shlonglor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OTOH, Lawrence also provides a PCLink and an optical cable. How much does the OPA627 cost?_

 

I forgot! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Lawrence was selling the OPA627AU's already soldered over/under on an adapter. They sound just like the BP's. You'll have to drop him an email for pricing.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shlonglor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can't find the page with your post about which one's the LT1364 that fits (or is better?). Which one was it?
Linear Technology - LT1364 - Dual and Quad 70MHz, 1000V/µs Op Amps LT1364 LT1364CN8#PBF LT1364CS8#PBF LT1364CS8 LT1364CS8#TR LT1364CS8#TRPBF LT1364CN8

 What's the difference between the variants, really?_

 

Different packaging and materials mostly. The ones you want are the CN8 that are lead free, the entire number is: LT1364CN8#PBF


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Navyblue* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This might be a weird question, anyone compared the Zero as source to a iPod Classic line out?_

 






 I don't think so. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But, it would depend upon the quality of the files being played. I'm sure an iPod playing lossless is going to sound better than the Zero playing an MP3 at 96K. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you level the field, and have them both playing the same files lossless, the Zero is going to sound better due to the better DAC section and a better, more powerful AMP section. Does that make sense?


----------



## Shlonglor

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I forgot! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Lawrence was selling the OPA627AU's already soldered over/under on an adapter. They sound just like the BP's. You'll have to drop him an email for pricing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I see. So you don't think it's worth it? (I meant buying the OPA627 separately, since it's probably too late to ask him for it now. I'll try... )

 Thanks.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No problem, Shlonglor_

 

Hey StratCat, try using that same tracking number in USPS's system. It should give you a status of some kind.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shlonglor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see. So you don't think it's worth it? (I meant buying the OPA627 separately, since it's probably too late to ask him for it now. I'll try... )

 Thanks._

 

If he hasn't shipped yet, it would save you the postage cost. Worth a try for sure.


----------



## Shlonglor

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If he hasn't shipped yet, it would save you the postage cost. Worth a try for sure. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I meant - worth paying more for them without first listening to the "unupgraded" Zero. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Shot him an email, lets see what happens!


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey StratCat, try using that same tracking number in USPS's system. It should give you a status of some kind. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Whoa!

 <paste USPS tracking>

_Label/Receipt Number: CPXXXXXXXXXH K
 Status: Foreign International Dispatch

 Your item left HONG KONG AIR MAIL CENTRE, HONG KONG on June 23, 2008. Information, if available, is updated every evening. Please check again later._

 </paste USPS tracking>

 Thank you Penchum!

 /me slides open USPS tab next to open HKP tab on browser


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shlonglor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I meant - worth paying more for them without first listening to the "unupgraded" Zero. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Shot him an email, lets see what happens!_

 

Ok, I'm confused. What is the "unupgraded Zero"??


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, I'm confused. What is the "unupgraded Zero"??_

 

A stock Zero...I think 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fran* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Haven';t searched here but would some diamond buffers from say a revMH millet work instead of the opamps?


 Fran_

 

I don't know for sure. I'll take a look......

 From the looks of it, I'd say it's only for the millet, although I could be wrong. That being said Lawrence does sell an HDAM that does work with the Zero already ( I know I have one). I bet you already knew that though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Carry on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A stock Zero...I think 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Peete._

 






 Wow. I must have missed something in their conversation, big time! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Or, my pain meds just started to work properly. Either way, I'm going to try and make some headway on this info I have.


----------



## Nedman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_See if you can get a couple of LT1364's and try them in the headphone amp. I think you'll like it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks for your reply Penchum. 

 I was only thinking about replacing the opamp on the amp side with the LM4562. Because the LM4562 seemed a little easer to get here in Australia, than the LT1364. 

Replacement Sound Card Op Amps!


----------



## fran

Well, the original diamond buffers by steinchen were used in place of some OP551 and I think the better alternative was some BUF634. Now they are just buffers so maybe it won't work. I'll have to look into this and compare the gain of the diamond buffer with the opamp gain. Not looking good though.

 Fran


----------



## Penchum

A very mini-review for Zero DAC/Amp owners (or anyone interested):

 For the last week, I've been testing the X-Fi Xtreme Audio Notebook ExpressCard in my ASUS notebook. This was to determine what the differences were between it, and my notebooks built-in HD audio chipset, using SPDIF optical output into the Zero DAC/Amp.

 There appears to be a lot of interest in this card. I guess I'm not the only one looking for better quality than the built-in audio in my notebook provides.

 My major reasoning for purchasing this card, was the differences I could hear between my desktops X-Fi Xtreme Music card and my notebooks built-in HD-audio. This disturbed me because everything I have read here, says that when using a sound card as a digital transport, there is no difference between them. This has not been my experience so far, and I wanted to find out if it was possible to have my notebook produce audio that was the same quality as my desktop.

 Surprise, surprise! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The X-Fi Xtreme Audio Notebook ExpressCard does indeed sound like my desktops X-Fi Xtreme Music card!! This really makes me happy. Everything from the lowest of lows to the extended highs, is identical in sound quality to my desktop's X-Fi. Now a little about the card:

 The card is an ExpressCard and requires this newer slot in your notebook. My slot is a spring loaded slot, so as long as I don't touch the card while it is inserted, it will stay locked in. Touch it and push it in a little, and "boing" it disconnects sending windows into a rash of bad behavior. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Those folks who have the push lever to disconnect an expresscard, will be better off than I am. Creative includes a sheet with this "locking" issue described and what to do about it.

 The card sticks out of the slot about 1 1/4 inches, so for some people who are constantly on the go with their notebooks, this might require them to eject the card before going mobile. It comes with a nice padded bag for such a purpose, so I think it would be a wise move.

 The card itself works flawlessly. When you load up the software and do the updates on Creatives site, you will see the old built-in audio and the Creative audio both listed in the control panel. At first, this didn't make sense to me. Then I realized that if you powered up the notebook without your card inserted, they still wanted you to have audio from the built-in chip. When the X-Fi is inserted, the HD-audio looses control of all audio to the X-Fi.

 In most cases, built-in audio solutions have a terrible line-out quality, even the HD-audio chips have this problem. Much to my surprise, the line-out on the X-Fi is really great! No noise, full sounding and probably the best line-out I have ever heard from a card solution. Using my HD-650's, I was able to get the card to drive them decently. This was totally unexpected. This may make this card preferred for travel. The optical output works wonderfully and is every bit as good as other optical outs.

 Testing optical out to the Zero was a real pleasure. Every single detail I like about the sound quality of my desktop's X-Fi, is in this wonderful little card. Now, I don't have to heat up the room, or draw tons of power to run my desktop, to have "computer as a source" with excellent sound quality. I just use my notebook with the X-Fi and not give it another thought. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This is going to change my listening habits for the better.

 What does this little card represent to us? Well, it allows us to have PC audio in a notebook, that is equal to the audio we can get from a desktop X-Fi based computer. Whether you listen at home always, or on the go more frequently, this card will allow you to have a much higher quality output for every application and use. I would imagine that someone who is a mobile user, would love to pair this up with their portable DAC/Amp while traveling. If their results were anything like the results I got with the Zero DAC/Amp, they would be very happy indeed. For the at home user, it will be nice to use a notebook instead of a desktop computer for source needs. It will take up less space, draw less power, produce less heat and sound just as good.

 Creative also makes an adapter you purchase separately, for home theater use. This is a great idea if your notebook has decent video output. You might be able to use your notebook instead of building or buying a home theater PC.

 The X-Fi Xtreme Audio Notebook ExpressCard comes in a small box with the X-Fi ExpressCard, Soft case, CD software, All in one ear buds + mic, and a bigger than life "how to" sheet for hooking it up. On the CD is the Creative software and drivers, PowerDVD with DTS & Dolby Surround and Surround headphone plug-ins

 To summarize:

 The X-Fi Xtreme Audio Notebook ExpressCard is everything I had hoped for, and even a little more. When paired up with the Zero DAC/Amp, you'd swear you had a desktop X-Fi solution running. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It is a quality product and the price was right in the neighborhood of other X-Fi solutions, $79-$99. Mine was $78 including 2 day shipping, from mwave.com. I consider it to be a tremendous upgrade for those using a notebook's internal audio solution. GO FOR IT! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If there is enough interest for some pictures, I'll add some in the next couple of days.

 Dave McLaughlin
 X-Fi Xtreme Audio Notebook ExpressCard owner and
 Audiophile since 1977.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nedman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for your reply Penchum. 

 I was only thinking about replacing the opamp on the amp side with the LM4562. Because the LM4562 seemed a little easer to get here in Australia, than the LT1364. 

Replacement Sound Card Op Amps!_

 

Ow, I see. Well, it will sound just fine with the LM4562's in the amp. If it turns out to be too bright for your tastes, the LT1364's are the cure.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Great job on the review Pench !!! 


 Peete.


----------



## Shlonglor

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 Wow. I must have missed something in their conversation, big time! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Or, my pain meds just started to work properly. Either way, I'm going to try and make some headway on this info I have. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The "Un-upgraded" one is the normal one which most sellers have, and the "upgraded one" is this one -
Tianyun ZERO Multifuction Decoders(Upgrade Version) - eBay, Speakers, Desktop Laptop Accessories, Computers Networking. (end time 02-Jul-08 19:35:55 AEST)

 Lawrence sells the 2 pre-mounted Opas / adapter for 30$/35$
1 MODULE OF 2 Pre-Mounted OPA627AU Op-amps on Adapter - eBay (item 330246164181 end time Jun-28-08 07:43:24 PDT)
1 MODULE OF 2 Pre-Mounted OPA637AU Op-amps on Adapter - eBay (item 230264806178 end time Jun-30-08 09:54:30 PDT)

 and I'm trying to figure out if it's worth the extra cost.


----------



## dcpoor

so the upgraded version already has two 627's on a adapter installed? seems like a good choice to get the upgraded version.


----------



## Nedman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dcpoor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so the upgraded version already has two 627's on a adapter installed?_

 

I have purchased one thinking that, but I am not sure with the answers given since. He does sell the standard versions for $111US + $50US postage [upgraded version $40US postage???]. 

 Once I have it delivered [7-10 days], I'll post some photos. And hopefully he will relist, if your willing to wait. It's a bit hard to commutate with him. But he did only originally have his stuff only listed on the HK ebay site. And only moved that one over to the Australian ebay site when I requested some more information in English. On the positive side, he does have a 100% feedback.

 Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.


----------



## Shlonglor

Lawrence hasn't shipped my Zero yet, so I have a chance to add the OPAs to it if I wish. Here's what he wrote:


> Dear Sir ,
> 
> Will you consider also the headphone amp upgrade?
> 
> ...


I have no idea how to judge whether or not it's worth it. He'll probably give a discount since it's bundled with the Zero so it might be worth going for it right now, but I'm not sure at all it's worth the money or which OpAmp will be the best option for my Denon 2000s. Penchum! Help! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I asked for 2 LT1364 samples, anyway.


----------



## tinseljim

The safest/cheapest option is to get only the 627AUs for the DAC section, i.e. one module. This is what most people have said sounds the best whether used as a preamp, DAC or feeding the OPAMPs in the headphone amp section. This is what I use after swapping around many opamps in the dac section. 

 Then use the 1364s in the headphone amp section. You can always use different OPAMPs there to taylor the sound you like. I began with the 627s in the headamp section and found it too much (like the loudness button was on all the time). I haven't heard the 637s but I would suggest trying the above first unless you're getting a cheap deal in which case it wouldn't hurt to get them to try out anyway. 

 Make sense?

 James 



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shlonglor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lawrence hasn't shipped my Zero yet, so I have a chance to add the OPAs to it if I wish. Here's what he wrote:



			Dear Sir ,

 Will you consider also the headphone amp upgrade?


 I have an opamp OPA637AU which I especially select to use in Zero headphone section:
1 MODULE OF 2 Pre-Mounted OPA637AU Op-amps on Adapter - eBay (item 330244936799 end time Jun-23-08 09:44:34 PDT)



 627 and 637 sound more or less the same since they are in one family.
 627 is good in tonal balance, the soun is softer than 637 which is best to place in the analog section also is recommended by the forum members.
 637 have better bass perfoemance than 627 and it is puncher in bass, deeper and resolution of lower frequency. It is better to put 637 in the headamp section since headphone need more energy and the bass performance is a week point of many headphone. 637 can solve this weekness.
		
Click to expand...

I have no idea how to judge whether or not it's worth it. He'll probably give a discount since it's bundled with the Zero so it might be worth going for it right now, but I'm not sure at all it's worth the money or which OpAmp will be the best option for my Denon 2000s. Penchum! Help! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I asked for 2 LT1364 samples, anyway._


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shlonglor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lawrence hasn't shipped my Zero yet, so I have a chance to add the OPAs to it if I wish. Here's what he wrote:



			Dear Sir ,

 Will you consider also the headphone amp upgrade?


 I have an opamp OPA637AU which I especially select to use in Zero headphone section:
1 MODULE OF 2 Pre-Mounted OPA637AU Op-amps on Adapter - eBay (item 330244936799 end time Jun-23-08 09:44:34 PDT)



 627 and 637 sound more or less the same since they are in one family.
 627 is good in tonal balance, the soun is softer than 637 which is best to place in the analog section also is recommended by the forum members.
 637 have better bass perfoemance than 627 and it is puncher in bass, deeper and resolution of lower frequency. It is better to put 637 in the headamp section since headphone need more energy and the bass performance is a week point of many headphone. 637 can solve this weekness.
		
Click to expand...

I have no idea how to judge whether or not it's worth it. He'll probably give a discount since it's bundled with the Zero so it might be worth going for it right now, but I'm not sure at all it's worth the money or which OpAmp will be the best option for my Denon 2000s. Penchum! Help! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I asked for 2 LT1364 samples, anyway._

 

I'd order the OPA627's for the DAC section with the Zero, and while it is "on the way", I'd order samples of the LT1364 from LT's site. It shouldn't be a problem for them to get shipped to you.

 I have just evaluated the OPA637's and can't recommend them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I'll be posting more on this hopefully later today.


----------



## Shlonglor

That helps plenty, thanks guys. I asked Lawrence to stick in the OPA627 in the DAC section. Now I just hope he ships it out soon and it gets here in one piece.

 Edit: He wants 30$ for it. Is that a fair price?


----------



## koppite

Anyone know where I can order a Van Den Hul Optocoupler? I think I'm looking for an optical to toslink?


----------



## tinseljim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shlonglor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That helps plenty, thanks guys. I asked Lawrence to stick in the OPA627 in the DAC section. Now I just hope he ships it out soon and it gets here in one piece.

 Edit: He wants 30$ for it. Is that a fair price?_

 

Congratulations on the purchase, it's a great unit. That price is more or less standard (yours includes shipping so is a good price!).


----------



## tinseljim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koppite* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone know where I can order a Van Den Hul Optocoupler? I think I'm looking for an optical to toslink?_

 

Where abouts are you located? And did you mean mini to toslink? (optical and toslink are generally interchangeable)


----------



## MinotaurUK

Has anyone had odd pops and crackles in the sound from their Zero (both headamp and preamp)? I've been burning the Zero in for around 12hrs a day since it arrived last week, without any problems until this afternoon.

 About an hour ago, I noticed some strange artifacts in the sound. These are tracks I've listened to hundreds of times before, so it's definitely not the source. I've connected another DAC to the PC, which doesn't exhibit these artifacts, so it's not the digital out from the PC.

 I've opened up the unit and there are three lit LEDs - 2 on the headamp and one next to the coax connector on the rear - is that correct?

 I've tried pressing the reset button, which lights a fourth LED for about half a second, then goes out, but it doesn't seem to have made any difference.

 Any suggestions before I contact Lawrence?

 Thanks in advance.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

MinotaurUK,

 What digital input are you using ? Can you switch from Toslink to coax (or vice versa) to see if the problem persists ? Try sending the Zero a digital signal from a DVD/CD player as well (toslink and coax if you have both on the source player). Make sure no gunk is in the toslink receivers and check ends of toslink cable (if that is what your using)

 Go from there after you've tried this out.

 Peete.

 PS There should be 4 lit LEDS.Which one is out on yours ?


----------



## MinotaurUK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PS There should be 4 lit LEDS.Which one is out on yours ?_

 

The one near the "mute" button at the rear of the unit (rear left, near the AC socket).

 Off to try an optical cable now - I was using a coax.

 Edit: sorry, there are 4 lit LEDs - it's the 2 near the buttons that aren't lit - which I assume is normal unless the buttons are pressed.


----------



## MinotaurUK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MinotaurUK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Off to try an optical cable now - I was using a coax._

 

This is very strange. I've just switched to an optical cable, and the cracks and pops have disappeared. Switch back to the coax cable and there they are again. But connecting another DAC (my Denon home cinema amp) via the same coax cable from the same source definitely does *not* display the artefacts.

 I'm confused, but since I was planning on using the Zero with an optical cable as soon as a longer one arrived, I'm not that bothered.

 Thanks Peete for your suggestions.

 Since I've got the thing opened up now, I might as well install the OPA627s that arrived yesterday


----------



## StratCat

Checked USPS and HKP an hour ago, and they both show my Zero shipping ticket still open and not delivered. I just got home, and the kids said someone left a box at the front door earlier today...Yep, It's a parcel from Mr. Chan! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And HKP and USPS *still* do not reflect it was delivered!

 Pretty quick process and shipping, I'd say - 5 business days from Ebay order "click" to delivery at my door. Too bad the Zero just missed my Total_BitHead USB (which I just returned), by only one day. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I would've liked to do a direct A/B of both of them, and saw quite a few posts throughout the thread requesting this as well.

 I'm super busy ATM, but gimmee a day or two and I'll leave some feedback here.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MinotaurUK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is very strange. I've just switched to an optical cable, and the cracks and pops have disappeared. Switch back to the coax cable and there they are again. But connecting another DAC (my Denon home cinema amp) via the same coax cable from the same source definitely does *not* display the artefacts.

 I'm confused, but since I was planning on using the Zero with an optical cable as soon as a longer one arrived, I'm not that bothered.

 Thanks Peete for your suggestions.

 Since I've got the thing opened up now, I might as well install the OPA627s that arrived yesterday 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'd fire off an email to Lawrence to ask what he thinks, might as well. Could be a bad solder joint on the coax in or something else. Either way let him know what's happening.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Checked USPS and HKP an hour ago, and they both show my Zero shipping ticket still open and not delivered. I just got home, and the kids said someone left a box at the front door earlier today...Yep, It's a parcel from Mr. Chan! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And HKP and USPS *still* do not reflect it was delivered!

 Pretty quick process and shipping, I'd say - 5 business days from Ebay order "click" to delivery at my door. Too bad the Zero just missed my Total_BitHead USB (which I just returned), by only one day. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I would've liked to do a direct A/B of both of them, and saw quite a few posts throughout the thread requesting this as well.

 I'm super busy ATM, but gimmee a day or two and I'll leave some feedback here._

 

The only ones with reasonable real time status updates are the usual suspects (EMS,UPS,Fed EX etc). My rule of thumb for USPS and Canada Post is.....12-24 hours after they've listed the item on their tracking page it could be anywhere from 24 to 48 hours away from delivery (when shipped Air Express from HK,China). Any other form of transport well, 3 weeks to 3 months 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Don't sweat it bro 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's here it's here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MinotaurUK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The one near the "mute" button at the rear of the unit (rear left, near the AC socket).

 Off to try an optical cable now - I was using a coax.

 Edit: sorry, there are 4 lit LEDs - it's the 2 near the buttons that aren't lit - which I assume is normal unless the buttons are pressed._

 

All the LEDS light up on mine regardless of button settings (the only one that goes out is the digital lock LED when no signal is present at the toslink or coax in). You have an issue of some type for sure. Talk to Lawrence ASAP.

 Peete.


----------



## MinotaurUK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All the LEDS light up on mine regardless of button settings_

 

From what I can see there are 6 red LEDs on the circuit boards - one just behind the AC connector, one to the right of the coax connector, 2 next to the reset/mute buttons and 2 on the headamp board near the volume pot.

 Are all 6 LEDs usually lit on your unit then, Peete?

 Just want to make sure we're talking about the same LEDs here


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MinotaurUK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From what I can see there are 6 red LEDs on the circuit boards - one just behind the AC connector, one to the right of the coax connector, 2 next to the reset/mute buttons and 2 on the headamp board near the volume pot.

 Are all 6 LEDs usually lit on your unit then, Peete?

 Just want to make sure we're talking about the same LEDs here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

The reset/mute pair leds (very close together) remain off under normal use. All others should be lit when a signal is being processed. To be honest I never noticed the extra 2 lEDs until you pointed them out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 LOL. The only one to go off and on is the digital lock. When it senses a signal it locks on (be it coax or toslink)clicks and lights up.

 You had me going there for a sec though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Peete.


----------



## Penchum

I've been watching this conversation and one thing keeps bugging me. If it was a problem with digital in processing, (like the chip), the problem would show up no matter what coaxial cable is plugged in. But, this isn't the case is it?? Maybe the first coaxial cable is poo poo'd.?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been watching this conversation and one thing keeps bugging me. If it was a problem with digital in processing, (like the chip), the problem would show up no matter what coaxial cable is plugged in. But, this isn't the case is it?? Maybe the first coaxial cable is poo poo'd.?_

 

I wonder if the coax he's using has poor contact with the zero's jack ? 

 Your point is valid Pench....I wonder if Minotaur has another coax cable to test with. That would settle it pretty quick methinks.....

 What's happening Minotaur ? Any updates ?

 Peete.


----------



## MinotaurUK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wonder if the coax he's using has poor contact with the zero's jack ?_

 

Sorry, should probably have mentioned that about 10 posts earlier - yes, I did try another coax cable, same results.

 Hopefully I'll find some time at the weekend to remove the PCB and look on the underside for possible dry solder joints etc. around the coax jack.

 Good news is that the optical is definitely working fine - I've been listening on and off for the last 3 hours and not heard a single artifact through the optical interface.


----------



## Penchum

I've been testing the OPA637AU's in the DAC section of the Zero for the better part of two weeks. Even though some were saying it wouldn't run properly in the DAC, it actually does run just fine. But, as you already know, running and sounding decent are two different things. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*Here are my initial impressions using the DAC output to my MKIVse:*

 At the beginning, with only a few hours on them, the OPA637AU's were troubled with the highs being rolled off early. Mid/highs were inaccurate, meaning they made cymbals all sound the same. There wasn't enough presence there to distinguish between them, and what was there, was mixed together. Deep lows are rolled off almost exactly at 60Hz. This drove my sub-woofer crossover nuts! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The sound stage was narrow and only 2D unless a real dynamic passage happened.

*Here are my initial impressions using the Zero's built-in headphone amplifier with LT1364's installed:*

 Immediately, I noticed that the frequencies involved in voices, were recessed and this was very noticeable. I used the software equalizer to help me determine where this "dip" was happening. It was right at the 1kHz and took 5db to correct it! Leaving it with the "dip", I continued to evaluate. The highs were rolled off, the deep lows were rolled off, just like the DAC outputs were. The inaccuracy at mid/high levels wasn't as noticeable this time. The sound stage was still narrow and 2D.

 I was expecting better from this Opamp. So, giving it the benefit of the doubt, I ran it hard, 24/7 for 48 hours straight. This time, I did the DAC output and internal headphone amp evaluation one right after the other.

*Here were my impressions:*

 The highs, mid/highs, deep lows and sound stage were all fixed! The roll offs were gone, the mixing was now clear and my sub-woofer was sounding off correctly. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The 5db dip at 1kHz, was still apparent using the internal headphone amp. Now I was very curious to see how well the OPA637AU's would stack up against our proven OPA627AU's. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*Here are my impressions during the comparison:*

 Starting at the highs, the 627's have the 637's beat. The tonal quality of the highs is MUCH better with the 627's.

 The mid/highs in the 637 still do have a problem like I noticed earlier, and this shows easily when comparing it to the mid/highs of the 627. This mid/highs area is a real strength in the 627, giving great detail to upper voices and lower attack to upper frequencies.

 Mids are a problem for the 637. That 1kHz 5db "dip" makes a mess of things. The 627's however, treat this area like a silk rug. Smooth and dynamic.

 The low end is where I expected there to be a ton of difference between the two. What surprised me, was that they did sound similar to each other. The 627's were slightly tighter and had just a tiny bit more punch.

 Sound stage is where the bloody battle gets lost. The 627's have a much wider, more detailed sound stage with all the markings of a full 3D environment, while the 637's are stuck in 2D land, sounding narrow and limp by comparison.

*Final thoughts:*

 I'm pretty sure the OPA637AU wasn't cut out for DAC duty. I can't imagine a headphone or amp that will like the DAC output using the 637. *However, it is possible that the 637 may work wonders in a headphone amp. I was unable to test this, because I have only the one module.* If someone tests this and it is true, I won't be too surprised. OPA's generally don't sound bad. Put them in a "wrong role" and they sound marginal at best.

 Once again, I feel that the OPA627AU's have won the day big time! For DAC duty, these little guys have all the right properties and separate amps just love the output! Combined with the LT1364's in the built-in headphone amp, the OPA627AU's provide a super sound quality that spans almost all headphones. At the end of the day, the OPA627AU's get the recommendations they deserve (for DAC duty) and our Zero's are much better for it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Dave McLaughlin
 Zero owner and
 Audiophile since 1977.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MinotaurUK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry, should probably have mentioned that about 10 posts earlier - yes, I did try another coax cable, same results.

 Hopefully I'll find some time at the weekend to remove the PCB and look on the underside for possible dry solder joints etc. around the coax jack.

 Good news is that the optical is definitely working fine - I've been listening on and off for the last 3 hours and not heard a single artifact through the optical interface._

 

 Thanks for answering so quickly. Hopefully with all the brain power in this thread we can nail the problem down for you without having to send it back to Lawrence. It'd be worth looking at solder joints as you mentioned to see if anythings loose and or the solder points look cloudy and irregular. 

 I'd still contact Lawrence though and let him know what your up to before pulling the pcb. 

 It's a brand new Zero right ? Just to clarify further.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Interesting conclusions about the 637. I have to wonder if a circuit doesn't have to be designed around the 637's needs. Lawrence would know that the 637 would sound not so hot in Zero's DAC section would he not ? I dunno. Seems a little odd to me why BB made this opamp to begin with judging by the little bit of info that they provide for it when you look up it's specs. Par for the course I guess...just thinking out loud...don't mind me folks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Another well done review Pench, the usual A+ stuff from you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## StratCat

OK, now that I have some time:

 My little Zero came packed fine, no visible damage to the external packing or unit itself, no visible manufacturing defects upon inspection of the unit, and I got the hook-up right (using the PCLink USB/Optical converter) on the first try. And...she also came to life on the first try, too, needing only the usual reboot to disable the old soundcard drivers and initiate the new USB connection, similar the Total_BitHead install I did on this compy three weeks ago.

 I really like when things *just* *work*. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I also took a gazillion pics of it, starting with the unopened shipping package, and ending with close-ups of the internals, BUT, my wannabee-photographer kid was messing around with the Nikon, _*again*_, and managed to dig deep in the internal menus and disable my AF assist..._*again*_! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm sure I got some keeper pics tho, even if the incandescent lighting sucked, and I'll have something to post in a while, especially of the internals.

 The Zero comes with an English language manual now, too, tho it may as well be Chinese for the accuracy of the translation (think: Babel Fish, at best)

 Sound quality seems fine to me, with my first impression being one of higher dynamic range, which makes sense since I'm comparing the sound signature of the Zero to a Total_BitHead and Turtle Beach Santa Cruz soundcard, both of which are powered off my PC's internal sources (USB + PCI). I honestly have no other frame of reference besides my soundcard now that the BitHead is gone, so a hard critical review won't be possible since I don’t have any amp or DAC to A/B the Zero to. ... dayem, I'm sorry I didn't place the order earlier so I could A/B the Zero against the Total_Bithead.

 That's about it for now, I'm just going to enjoy my new toys (Zero + Denon D2000's + AT AD700's) since it's pretty late here.

 Thanks again, Zero support team.


----------



## windrider

Just to confirm i'm connecting zero to my amp correctly:

 From the zero, 
 - Optical (blue) and preamp (green) lights turned on
 - I connect a 3.5 stereo plug to 2RCA plug cable connected to the headphone out of zero
 - I connect the 2 rca plugs into the left/right inputs of my amp

 Is this correct? Am abit confused whether i'm double amping the signal with zero's amp and my 2nd amp.


----------



## direcow

Hey penchum> Have you tried the OPA637 in the amp section? It seems that is what Lawrence is suggesting...


----------



## tinseljim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *windrider* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just to confirm i'm connecting zero to my amp correctly:

 From the zero, 
 - Optical (blue) and preamp (green) lights turned on
 - I connect a 3.5 stereo plug to 2RCA plug cable connected to the headphone out of zero
 - I connect the 2 rca plugs into the left/right inputs of my amp

 Is this correct? Am abit confused whether i'm double amping the signal with zero's amp and my 2nd amp._

 

Hmmm...windrider why don't you just connect it to the RCAs at the back? Am I missing something?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *direcow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey penchum> Have you tried the OPA637 in the amp section? It seems that is what Lawrence is suggesting..._

 

Hi! No, I haven't because I only have the one module. I believe this would make sense though. It's performance may very well be geared better for amp use. That "dip" would make sense under amp conditions. Probably would sound "warm" in an amp? He might be "on" to something here.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *windrider* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just to confirm i'm connecting zero to my amp correctly:

 From the zero, 
 - Optical (blue) and preamp (green) lights turned on
 - I connect a 3.5 stereo plug to 2RCA plug cable connected to the headphone out of zero
 - I connect the 2 rca plugs into the left/right inputs of my amp

 Is this correct? Am abit confused whether i'm double amping the signal with zero's amp and my 2nd amp._

 

I could be "not" understanding what you are doing here, but, if you are hooking the DAC output to a separate amp, use only the RCA outputs on the rear of the Zero for this. Leave the "pre-amp" mode (green lite off) off for line-level output. It you "need" to control the volume of the separate amp using the Zero, use this same hook up, but turn on the "pre-amp" function (green lite on) and turn up the volume a little.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting conclusions about the 637. I have to wonder if a circuit doesn't have to be designed around the 637's needs. Lawrence would know that the 637 would sound not so hot in Zero's DAC section would he not ? I dunno. Seems a little odd to me why BB made this opamp to begin with judging by the little bit of info that they provide for it when you look up it's specs. Par for the course I guess...just thinking out loud...don't mind me folks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Another well done review Pench, the usual A+ stuff from you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Thanks PP. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I believe now that amp use "in theory" would make sense and maybe this is what Lawrence is trying to get across to us. I hope someone has two modules of these and can test it out.


----------



## vvanrij

Yeah thanks for the write-up Penchum, my 627+1364 is still serving me very well.


----------



## Dihnekis

How do these work with USB? I'm considering an ibasso D2 Boa, which has a built in DAC and amp for around $180. Portability isn't an issue though. I'm looking for something to replace my crappy onboard notebook audio, as well as my failing Little Dot Micro amp.

 Would the Zero be a better option than the ibasso d2? I will be using whichever I get over USB and then straight to my Grado SR-225s, playing 24/96 flac files.


----------



## Shlonglor

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dihnekis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How do these work with USB? I'm considering an ibasso D2 Boa, which has a built in DAC and amp for around $180. Portability isn't an issue though. I'm looking for something to replace my crappy onboard notebook audio, as well as my failing Little Dot Micro amp.

 Would the Zero be a better option than the ibasso d2? I will be using whichever I get over USB and then straight to my Grado SR-225s, playing 24/96 flac files._

 

A few of the Zero sellers will also add a USB->Optical adapter, and then you can connect any computer to it easily. The Zero will perform better than the Boa as it is a desktop amp, so if portability isn't an issue, the Zero is a better idea.


----------



## StratCat

FYI -

 Since there's been a lot of interest in the USB-TOSLINK adaptor supplied by Lawrence, here's the one that shipped with my Zero that I received yesterday. It's called an "Xitel MD-PORT DG2", and here's a link I found:

MD Community Page: Xitel MDPORT-DG2

 Here's a review on NeoSeekers:

Xitel DG2 MDPort Review - Page 1 - Xitel DG2 MDPort Review

 I couldn't find my device on the main Xitel site easily, doing a very quick cursory search, and I didn't find a search function:

Xitel - Precision Audio Technology

 My device looks pretty much exactly like the one I linked, the best I can tell. The construction seems good (for this type of device). Considering the source of this product, could it be a "knock-off"? No way to tell absolutely tell for sure, but if I had to guess, I'd say I seriously doubt it. It appears to be authentic: Good construction, good fit and finish, very clear lettering, international safety spec certs clearly inscribed (CE, etc), individual serial numbers (apparently, ...mine ends in "3023", if someone would like to compare), and a general appearance of reasonably high quality manufacturing techniques (again, for this type of device).

 A quick Google on "Xitel MD-PORT DG2" will turn up a lot of links. I've got some pics of mine I may host later, too.

 So how does it sound? Fine, I think. Well, to my ears. I no longer have any other DAC to compare it to save for my old soundcard (Turtle Beach Santa Cruz), which of course is way behind the Zero/Xitel combo, of course. So I'm listening in a vacumn, as far as A/B comparisons go.

 I can say it did power up (the entire system did, actually) on the first try w/o any issues (the Xitel is self-powering off the USB port).

 I suggest doing some Googling on the item description I supplied above, if one is really concerned.

 HTH


----------



## StratCat

_Further impressions of the Zero/Xitel combo at 12 hrs in, thru my Denon D2000's and AT AD700's_:

 Well, with only my Turtle Beach Santa Cruz soundcard to compare, I'd say fine. Better in virtually all regards than the SC, of course. Rather than compare it to the TB SC tho, I'd prefer to compare it to the Total Bithead, but it's difficult with the BitHead being gone, and I don't want to rely on memory of a device that's no longer available for direct A/B.

 However, I do feel confident in re-stating my initial impression last night that the Zero has superior dynamic range in relation to the BitHead. After wringing it out to some higher SPL's last night after my post, I can attest to my initial impression in spades. And the Zero is able to drive my cans to levels far, far exceeding the BitHead, as well. And by "far", I mean just that; Not "higher", but "way higher". The higher dynamic range translates to a punchier and more solid overall sound signature, IMHO, particularly at higher listening levels. Yeah, I realize "high listening level" and "dynamic range" are two different, tho somewhat interrelated terms. So yes, the noise floor (throughout the amplification range) is reasonably low too, to my ears. It's undetectable at ordinary listening levels, which one would hope for with a 120dB S/N Level rating.

 I'm a happy camper at this point in time.

 K, c'ya' 'round.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Further impressions of the Zero/Xitel combo at 12 hrs in, thru my Denon D2000's and AT AD700's:

 Well, with only my Turtle Beach Santa Cruz soundcard to compare, I'd say fine. Better in virtually all regards than the SC, of course. Rather than compare it to the TB SC tho, I'd prefer to compare it to the Total Bithead, but it's difficult with the BitHead being gone, and I don't want to rely on memory of a device that's no longer available for direct A/B.

 However, I do feel confident in re-stating my initial impression last night that the Zero has superior dynamic range in relation to the BitHead. After wringing it out to some higher SPL's last night after my post, I can attest to my initial impression in spades. And the Zero is able to drive my cans to levels far, far exceeding the BitHead, as well. And by "far", I mean just that; Not "higher", but "way higher". The higher dynamic range translates to a punchier and more solid overall sound signature, IMHO, particularly at higher listening levels. Yeah, I realize "high listening level" and "dynamic range" are two different, tho somewhat interrelated terms. So yes, the noise floor (throughout the amplification range) is reasonably low too, to my ears. It's undetectable at ordinary listening levels, which one would hope for with a 120dB S/N Level rating.

 I'm a happy camper at this point in time.

 K, c'ya' 'round._

 

And to think, the Zero isn't burned-in yet!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Expect good things to happen very soon.


----------



## Dihnekis

PCLINK USB-SPDIF FOR AUDIO 24BIT , UDA1321 / CS8405A - eBay (item 330246709526 end time Jun-30-08 09:51:50 PDT)

 That is the one I will be getting most likely.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Any of you rich guys
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 tried putting four opa627s in the headamp section?


----------



## AudioPhewl

Danged PC. Gawd, I hate reinstalling... apologies for not being around the last few days - I thumped the PC in a "fit of rage", and the heatsink popped off the processor... :-D.

 New processor and mobo fitted... and a new DVD-ROM after my old one started to play mid-reinstallation. And now... I'm thinking of trying Win2k out for a while. It's been such a long time since I touched any versions of Windows...

 Just thought I'd say "hi" and take things totally off-topic...  BTW, "Panama" by Van Halen sounds lovely on my Zero at the moment .

 ~Phewl.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dihnekis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PCLINK USB-SPDIF FOR AUDIO 24BIT , UDA1321 / CS8405A - eBay (item 330246709526 end time Jun-30-08 09:51:50 PDT)

 That is the one I will be getting most likely._

 

Dihnekis -

 Yep, that looks exactly the same as mine which I also got thru Lawrence (biglawhk), as explained in post #4040, tho mine was included in the package with my Zero purchase.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any of you rich guys
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 tried putting four opa627s in the headamp section?_

 

ciphercomplete -

 I noticed you have the Zero and AKG 501's, and have previously owned ATH-AD700's. I currently am using AD700's thru my Zero for classical, but am toying with the idea of trying out some AKG 701 or 702's (again for classical), which I believe are somewhat similar to your 501's. 

 Care to comment on how the 501's sound thru the Zero's HP Amp section vs the AD700's? I'm definitely interested, even if you'd like to comment only the 501/701’s vs AD700's, irrespective of the Zero?

 You can always PM me if you feelit's drifting off topic for this thread.

 Thanks.


----------



## Dihnekis

Anyone with the "upgraded" version care to comment on it?

Tianyun ZERO Multifuction Decoders(Upgrade Version) - eBay (item 110258656432 end time Jul-02-08 02:35:55 PDT)

 It is only $166 shipped, I'm considering it.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tinseljim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The safest/cheapest option is to get only the 627AUs for the DAC section, i.e. one module. This is what most people have said sounds the best whether used as a preamp, DAC or feeding the OPAMPs in the headphone amp section. This is what I use after swapping around many opamps in the dac section. 

 Then use the 1364s in the headphone amp section. You can always use different OPAMPs there to taylor the sound you like. I began with the 627s in the headamp section and found it too much (like the loudness button was on all the time). I haven't heard the 637s but I would suggest trying the above first unless you're getting a cheap deal in which case it wouldn't hurt to get them to try out anyway. 

 Make sense?

 James_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any of you rich guys
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 tried putting four opa627s in the headamp section?_

 

tinseljim (above) is the only one I know about.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dihnekis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PCLINK USB-SPDIF FOR AUDIO 24BIT , UDA1321 / CS8405A - eBay (item 330246709526 end time Jun-30-08 09:51:50 PDT)

 That is the one I will be getting most likely._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dihnekis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone with the "upgraded" version care to comment on it?

Tianyun ZERO Multifuction Decoders(Upgrade Version) - eBay (item 110258656432 end time Jul-02-08 02:35:55 PDT)

 It is only $166 shipped, I'm considering it._

 


 Several members have the PCLink and like it, so I believe it is a good choice. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The "upgrade" offer is so new, I think a couple of members ordered one, but haven't received them yet. It appears (from the add) the only upgrade is the OPA627's in the DAC section, instead of the old OPA2604. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If this is so, then it's a good deal. Chances are you'd order the OPA627's anyway, later on.


----------



## Shlonglor

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_FYI -

 Since there's been a lot of interest in the USB-TOSLINK adaptor supplied by Lawrence, here's the one that shipped with my Zero that I received yesterday. It's called an "Xitel MD-PORT DG2", and here's a link I found:_

 

Cool. A 60$ piece of technology no longer has any uses since no one has MDs anymore and I get it for free with my new DAC. Hurray!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shlonglor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cool. A 60$ piece of technology no longer has any uses since no one has MDs anymore and I get it for free with my new DAC. Hurray!_

 

Ya, I don't think they are the same thing anymore. This one linked earlier: PCLINK USB-SPDIF FOR AUDIO 24BIT , UDA1321 / CS8405A - eBay (item 330246709526 end time Jun-30-08 09:51:50 PDT) even has the upgraded chips in it, so that is fairly new. I've been tempted to get one, but I really don't need one, so I'm going to have to rely on others to report about it.


----------



## Enthusia

After reading all this, I think I might buy one of them. I'll wait until all the upgrades are done though, so I can feel special with the latest version.


----------



## Oya?

With the speed it grows, I imagine this seems to be the semi-official Zero appreciation thread. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyways, I ordered a Zero from Lawrence a few days ago, and some op-amps today. Can't wait.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oya?* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With the speed it grows, I imagine this seems to be the semi-official Zero appreciation thread. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyways, I ordered a Zero from Lawrence a few days ago, and some op-amps today. Can't wait. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 






 Ya, it's the Zero "catch all" thread, for sure.


----------



## koppite

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oya?* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With the speed it grows, I imagine this seems to be the semi-official Zero appreciation thread. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyways, I ordered a Zero from Lawrence a few days ago, and some op-amps today. Can't wait. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes, I also ordered from Lawrence a few days ago. I'm so excited that I have the hongkong post webiste package tracker bookmarked!


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ciphercomplete -

 I noticed you have the Zero and AKG 501's, and have previously owned ATH-AD700's. I currently am using AD700's thru my Zero for classical, but am toying with the idea of trying out some AKG 701 or 702's (again for classical), which I believe are somewhat similar to your 501's. 

 Care to comment on how the 501's sound thru the Zero's HP Amp section vs the AD700's? I'm definitely interested, even if you'd like to comment only the 501/701’s vs AD700's, irrespective of the Zero?

 You can always PM me if you feelit's drifting off topic for this thread.

 Thanks._

 

Well the Zero only does a OK job powering the K-501. The soundstage is compressed a bit and there is a lot less impact compared to when I am using my MK III to power them. If you are not planning on getting a standalone amp for a while I would say get the K-701/702 as they are significantly easier to power than the k501. That said the k501s are my favorite cans so I could listen to them a little underpowered and still be happy.

 I never did a A/B between the ad700s and the K501s but if you like the large soundstage of the ad700 and wished it was bigger than you are really going to like the k501s. They are quite similar if I remember correctly. They both have a very clear midrange and are both a little light on bass. The k501s do everything tons better when powered right though. The k501s are the ultimate classical can IMHO. Huge soundstage, awesome detail, very fast, and tight impactful bass when powered adequately. Dramatic passages in classical scores sound just that on the 501s. Plus they scale like nobody's business as they react better than my hd580s to new and better equipment. They will make you amp crazy though. I am always searching for new amps with the k501s in mind.


----------



## Nedman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dihnekis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone with the "upgraded" version care to comment on it?

Tianyun ZERO Multifuction Decoders(Upgrade Version) - eBay (item 110258656432 end time Jul-02-08 02:35:55 PDT)

 It is only $166 shipped, I'm considering it._

 

As I said earlier in this thread, I have ordered one and it has been shipped [I've received a shipping number and verified this through EMS]. As soon as I get it, I'll take the lid off and take some photos. So some of the more knowledgeable members here can comment on it.

 The music side of it might be a little harder for me to comment on, as the only thing I will have to compare it to is my old 20bit USB Xitel HiFi-Link. As well I should be receiving a Yaqin 6J1 Tube buffer around the same time. Which I plan to burn in at the same time.

 Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oya?* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With the speed it grows, I imagine this seems to be the semi-official Zero appreciation thread. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 [...]_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 Ya, it's the Zero "catch all" thread, for sure. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

OK, I'll be happy to make this thread official:

Team Zero

 There! 

 An executable link to this thread, just like the one in my sig. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 For anyone not familiar with hypertext, just copy and paste the following code that's in italics into your sig: 

_"URL=www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/review-zero-24-bit-192khz-dac-headphone-amp-pre-amp-269458&page=1]Team Zero[/URL"_ 

 Remove the quotation marks from both ends of the code, and add brackets around the code like this: [_code_]

 That's it.


 Hope I didn't insult anyone's intelligence.


----------



## fishkill62

Zero's

 Im currently running 627 in the Dac and 637s in the headamp. It's producing a great dynamic soud on my Akg 701s. There is no shortage of power using the 637s on the Akg's. I suspect the 637s are helpinig here. The sound is a touch bright at the moment (25hrs) however I believe this will settle down after some more burn in. 

 I've tried a further set up as follows..

 M audio 24/96 soundcard>Harmon Kardon Hd 970 cd player dac in/out via coaxial>into the Zero's coaxial dac (627s)>through the Zero's head amp (637s)to the Akg's 701s. 

 This 'double Dac'ing' has given me the best sound so far. I suspect that the Harmon has superior initial digital decoders and this is helping here....

 Cheers Chris....


----------



## SLUSHIE

Mine seems to develop little pops or crackles after being on for a little bit.. like 5-10 mins. Anyone else having this?


----------



## tinseljim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_tinseljim (above) is the only one I know about. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes it's basically as I stated, with the 627s in amp and dac it was over kill and similar to the loudness button. The warmth was gone and there was an added sense of synthetic reproduction. THough the soundstage improved in all directions. I really thought I liked it but then put the 1364s back in and realised it was a more realistic. I sold the extra 627s.

 The only reason I did it in the first place was because Lawrence bundled it all together. But it was worth trying. It appears you can have too much of a good thing. 

 p.s. my newly re-cabled 325s are just awesome!


----------



## Shlonglor

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ya, I don't think they are the same thing anymore. This one linked earlier: PCLINK USB-SPDIF FOR AUDIO 24BIT , UDA1321 / CS8405A - eBay (item 330246709526 end time Jun-30-08 09:51:50 PDT) even has the upgraded chips in it, so that is fairly new. I've been tempted to get one, but I really don't need one, so I'm going to have to rely on others to report about it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'll make a direct comparison between USB->Optical and a Coaxial coming out of my M-Audio. (if the Zero ever gets here)

 I have a feeling they'll sound identical.


----------



## Oya?

Now if only I had a Zero to be in Team Zero. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Here's hoping it get's here before my mid term holidays come.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK, I'll be happy to make this thread official:

Team Zero

 There! 

 An executable link to this thread, just like the one in my sig. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 For anyone not familiar with hypertext, just copy and paste the following code that's in italics into your sig: 

"URL=www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/review-zero-24-bit-192khz-dac-headphone-amp-pre-amp-269458&page=1]Team Zero[/URL" 

 Remove the quotation marks from both ends of the code, and add brackets around the code like this: [code]

 That's it.


 Hope I didn't insult anyone's intelligence._


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well the Zero only does a OK job powering the K-501. The soundstage is compressed a bit and there is a lot less impact compared to when I am using my MK III to power them. If you are not planning on getting a standalone amp for a while I would say get the K-701/702 as they are significantly easier to power than the k501. That said the k501s are my favorite cans so I could listen to them a little underpowered and still be happy.

 I never did a A/B between the ad700s and the K501s but if you like the large soundstage of the ad700 and wished it was bigger than you are really going to like the k501s. They are quite similar if I remember correctly. They both have a very clear midrange and are both a little light on bass. The k501s do everything tons better when powered right though. The k501s are the ultimate classical can IMHO. Huge soundstage, awesome detail, very fast, and tight impactful bass when powered adequately. Dramatic passages in classical scores sound just that on the 501s. Plus they scale like nobody's business as they react better than my hd580s to new and better equipment. They will make you amp crazy though. I am always searching for new amps with the k501s in mind._

 

Thx ciphercomplete, 

 You supplied a great deal of info to the questions I specifically wondered about. And yes, that was what I was hoping: That the 501/701's would have a similar sound signature to the AD700's (you described them well from memory), but they would have "more of the same and better", correct? Actually, I was looking for something similar in sound signature to the AD700's, but of higher general quality, and a bit more bass ideally.

 I only have one further clarification: Can I assume the 501 and 701 sound signatures and sound quality are similar?

 It was the 701's I was firstly considering, initially using the Zero's HP amp, and possibly a SS amp at a later date or as required. Plus, I don't believe I saw the 501's on AKG's site. Perhaps they're discontinued.

 Thx again.


----------



## dacavalcante

Hi guys, well, it has been 5 days since I got my HD-650 and those OP Amps for zero.
 Well... HD-650 was like new, but I already did 50+ hours of pink noise burn-in on it.
 Op amps were already run for much longer than that, so they're already burned-in....

 But I don't get a so "soft" high with this setup.... is that a normal ?
 OPA amps came from lawrence for another head-fi'er.

 Some times it seems that highs lack a little detail + more soft sound.

 Something that I found is that instruments that are playing louder, usually overcome instruments playing more quiet..... 

 What do you guys think ? This happens with you too ?



 Setup:
 ESI Julia -> Zero Upgraded -> HD-650


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys, well, it has been 5 days since I got my HD-650 and those OP Amps for zero.
 Well... HD-650 was like new, but I already did 50+ hours of pink noise burn-in on it.
 Op amps were already run for much longer than that, so they're already burned-in....

 But I don't get a so "soft" high with this setup.... is that a normal ?
 OPA amps came from lawrence for another head-fi'er.

 Some times it seems that highs lack a little detail + more soft sound.

 Something that I found is that instruments that are playing louder, usually overcome instruments playing more quiet..... 

 What do you guys think ? This happens with you too ?



 Setup:
 ESI Julia -> Zero Upgraded -> HD-650_

 

What you are describing sounds like the burn-in is still underway. Whether it is the Zero itself, the headphones or the Opamps, they all need more time. Here is a small time chart from experience only. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Zero needs 100 hours
 Opamps need 45-55 hours
 HD-650's need 250 hours

 These times can vary, so hang in there.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What you are describing sounds like the burn-in is still underway. Whether it is the Zero itself, the headphones or the Opamps, they all need more time. Here is a small time chart from experience only. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Zero needs 100 hours
 Opamps need 45-55 hours
 HD-650's need 250 hours

 These times can vary, so hang in there. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

wow.. 250 hours on 650 ? people on head-fi talk about 100hrs.... did you really noticed big changes, even after 100hours ?
 Did you had this same sound signature with 650 when it was new ?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_wow.. 250 hours on 650 ? people on head-fi talk about 100hrs.... did you really noticed big changes, even after 100hours ?
 Did you had this same sound signature with 650 when it was new ?_

 

I have "matured" two HD-650's so far, and each one took over 250 hours. There were noticeable changes during that last 100 hours. It is true that the huge changes happen within the first 150 hours, but those last 100 hours give you the nuances and finer points.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK, I'll be happy to make this thread official:

Team Zero

 There! 

 An executable link to this thread, just like the one in my sig. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 For anyone not familiar with hypertext, just copy and paste the following code that's in italics into your sig: 

"URL=www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/review-zero-24-bit-192khz-dac-headphone-amp-pre-amp-269458&page=1]Team Zero[/URL" 

 Remove the quotation marks from both ends of the code, and add brackets around the code like this: [code]

 That's it.

 Hope I didn't insult anyone's intelligence._

 

Thanks! I hadn't had time to figure that part out yet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've got a bunch to put in there.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have "matured" two HD-650's so far, and each one took over 250 hours. There were noticeable changes during that last 100 hours. It is true that the huge changes happen within the first 150 hours, but those last 100 hours give you the nuances and finer points. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That's great.... when it hits the 100, 150, 200, 250 hours mark I'll let you know the differences I've realized...


----------



## Shlonglor

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have "matured" two HD-650's so far, and each one took over 250 hours. There were noticeable changes during that last 100 hours. It is true that the huge changes happen within the first 150 hours, but those last 100 hours give you the nuances and finer points. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hey Penchum, can you point me to a good burn-in guide? I've looked around and seen conflicting ideas...
 I have a lot of new gear coming in which I'll have to burn properly.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shlonglor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Penchum, can you point me to a good burn-in guide? I've looked around and seen conflicting ideas...
 I have a lot of new gear coming in which I'll have to burn properly. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It seems that pink noise is a general winner on peoples opinion over the internet...
 Some manufactores have their own burn in tracks...


----------



## Dihnekis

So is the USB>SPDIF thing bit perfect? It can use ASIO right?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shlonglor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Penchum, can you point me to a good burn-in guide? I've looked around and seen conflicting ideas...
 I have a lot of new gear coming in which I'll have to burn properly. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Sorry, I haven't found a decent one either.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So, I've just gone about it the way that makes the most sense to me. There are too many opinions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My approach is simple:

 If it is part of the signal path and has capacitors in it, it gets a minimum of 100 hours for the capacitors to form up (includes tube amps).

 If it reproduces music, (drivers, elements) and has moving parts, it gets whatever it needs, evaluated at 50 hour intervals.

 I do not normally allow time for burn-in on the following: Power cables, interconnect cables, digital cables, headphone cables, USB cables, chips, fuses, noise isolators, power conditioners, sound cards, rubber baby buggy bumpers, and last nights pizza. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I always use music to "mature" my equipment. I do this because music is what I'm going to use them for.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dihnekis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So is the USB>SPDIF thing bit perfect? It can use ASIO right?_

 

Copied from eBay add:

 DIGITAL PCLINK USB-SPDIF Interface Features
 * Universal Serial Bus (USB) stereo digital audio interface
 * Adaptive (5 to 55 kHz) continuous frequency sampling range
 * Supports 12 Mbits/s full-speed serial data transmission
 * Supports multiple audio data formats (16 and 24 bits)
 * Fully automatic Plug-and-Play operation
 * High linearity and wide dynamic range
 * Optical digital out
 * Supports kmixer bypass via ASIO4ALL and ASIO2KS
 * Using ASIO, bit-perfect digital out can be achieved.
 * AC3/DTS signal passthrough using ASIO
 * Excellent computer as source to connect to external DACs
 * Size (mm) : 55(w) x 75(d) x 20(h)

 It comes with a gold plated USB connector


----------



## P_1

In asio4all it seems that the digital pclink thing only goes upto 55khz/24bit while Lawrence told me it would do 96khz/24bit.


----------



## Dihnekis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *P_1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In asio4all it seems that the digital pclink thing only goes upto 55khz/24bit while Lawrence told me it would do 96khz/24bit._

 

Anyone else find this to be the vase? Kind of defeats the point.


----------



## P_1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dihnekis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone else find this to be the vase? Kind of defeats the point._

 

I mean its in the specs 5-55khz adaptive. I just figured that it meant there was some way it would handle 96khz input or something. My headphones have not come in yet so I am not able to test the zero or the digital pc link yet. All I can do is plug them in.


----------



## ciphercomplete

USPS is taking forever to deliver my HDAM.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Copied from eBay add:

 DIGITAL PCLINK USB-SPDIF Interface Features
 * Universal Serial Bus (USB) stereo digital audio interface
 * Adaptive (5 to 55 kHz) continuous frequency sampling range
 * Supports 12 Mbits/s full-speed serial data transmission
 * Supports multiple audio data formats (16 and 24 bits)
 * Fully automatic Plug-and-Play operation
 * High linearity and wide dynamic range
 * Optical digital out
 * Supports kmixer bypass via ASIO4ALL and ASIO2KS
 * Using ASIO, bit-perfect digital out can be achieved.
 * AC3/DTS signal passthrough using ASIO
 * Excellent computer as source to connect to external DACs
 * Size (mm) : 55(w) x 75(d) x 20(h)

 It comes with a gold plated USB connector_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *P_1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In asio4all it seems that the digital pclink thing only goes upto 55khz/24bit while Lawrence told me it would do 96khz/24bit._

 

So, it would seem then that I should try using my motherboard's Optical or Coax outputs, rather than the it's USB ports, to source my Zero to see if I can hear a difference? (Which I was going to try anyway) 

 No idea if I even could hear a sampling difference anyway (but always worth a try).


----------



## P_1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, it would seem then that I should try using my motherboard's Optical or Coax outputs, rather than the it's USB ports, to source my Zero to see if I can hear a difference? (Which I was going to try anyway) 

 No idea if I even could hear a sampling difference anyway (but always worth a try)._

 

It would be great if you could test a 24bit/96khz file on your mobo vs the usb. Use foobar and asio4all for both of them using the same settings. Make sure foobar is set to output at 24bit and that the resampler plugin is off.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dihnekis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone else find this to be the vase? Kind of defeats the point._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *P_1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I mean its in the specs 5-55khz adaptive. I just figured that it meant there was some way it would handle 96khz input or something. My headphones have not come in yet so I am not able to test the zero or the digital pc link yet. All I can do is plug them in._

 

I thought the whole idea was to play 44khz 16bit, bit perfect?? My understanding was that you couldn't get a sound improvement with higher settings?? It has been a while since I looked around on this, maybe 4 months.


----------



## mannnu81

anyone have a picture of the 627? does it matter which way its inserted in the sockets L/R sides?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, it would seem then that I should try using my motherboard's Optical or Coax outputs, rather than the it's USB ports, to source my Zero to see if I can hear a difference? (Which I was going to try anyway) 

 No idea if I even could hear a sampling difference anyway (but always worth a try)._

 

The default "think" over here, is "use what you already got first". Not only does this save a few bucks, but you may find it works wonderfully. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 USB is a great convenience, but that is really what it is for, convenience. Those that have nothing else, like eeePC and such, are thrilled to get excellent audio via USB. My notebook has HD audio w/optical out, but it wasn't satisfactory, so I used my ExpressCard slot instead of the USB stuff. I'm very glad I did.


----------



## Shlonglor

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought the whole idea was to play 44khz 16bit, bit perfect?? My understanding was that you couldn't get a sound improvement with higher settings?? It has been a while since I looked around on this, maybe 4 months._

 

Same here. There's a big thread around here somewhere that deals with this and the conclusion I gathered was that more than 44khz/16bit is only relevant for recording audio, not playing it.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shlonglor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Same here. There's a big thread around here somewhere that deals with this and the conclusion I gathered was that more than 44khz/16bit is only relevant for recording audio, not playing it._

 

X2 That is what I "gleaned" as well. If I remember correctly, it is super easy to get bit perfect in Vista, but XP and OSX need software and plug-ins to get it done. That about right??


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mannnu81* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyone have a picture of the 627? does it matter which way its inserted in the sockets L/R sides?_

 

I'm PMing at the same time, but... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The pics in the review show the correct orientation for the 627's on the adapter.


----------



## P_1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought the whole idea was to play 44khz 16bit, bit perfect?? My understanding was that you couldn't get a sound improvement with higher settings?? It has been a while since I looked around on this, maybe 4 months._

 

Well doesn't that depend on the files you are trying to play back? I mean have you listened to 24bit/96khz files vs 16bit/44khz files?


----------



## marcus1

Hi

 Just getting started in Headphones and am trying to figure out what to buy - I've narrowed my headphones to either the Denon D2000/D5000 or the audio-technica ATH-W1000 but, although I've read quite a few threads I'm still confused on what amp to buy. 
 Has anyone done a comparision between the Little Dot mk3 amp and the Zero amp - they both have great reviews, with maybe the LD appearing to work well with all headphones. 
 Is one alot better than the other or is the choice dependant on the headphones you have or the type of music listened to? Any help appreciated!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *P_1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well doesn't that depend on the files you are trying to play back? I mean have you listened to 24bit/96khz files vs 16bit/44khz files?_

 

Just the Creative Demo ones that came with my X-FI Xtreme Music card. I'm not really sure if they were better or not, but that was along time ago. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think what I read was that when you rip to those higher formats and then play them back at the higher settings, they don't sound as good as bit perfect at the original rate of the CD. Anyone remember better than I??


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_USPS is taking forever to deliver my HDAM._

 

And then they won't update the website to show the tracking staus as "delivered" until well after you received your parcel!


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *P_1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It would be great if you could test a 24bit/96khz file on your mobo vs the usb. Use foobar and asio4all for both of them using the same settings. Make sure foobar is set to output at 24bit and that the resampler plugin is off._

 

Agreed.

 Can't say I'll get around to this too quickly tho. I don't have either programs installed on my compy, nor have I ever used them, either. But yeah, it’s something (already) on my list of "things to try".


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The default "think" over here, is "use what you already got first"._

 

Yep, agreed.

 Luckily, I already have onboard Coax/SPDIF/Bit_perfect native on my mobo (Asus P5K-E). All I have to do is load the mobo's included s/w, and enable the onboard sound chip via the BIOS. So, since I already have it, of course I'll tinker around to try different configs when I get in the mood.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not only does this save a few bucks, but you may find it works wonderfully. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yep, you got that right. Default is always to try to optimize and make the most of what's in-house. Something "simple, free, and easy", such as re-orienting one's speaker placement, can often lead to nice sonic improvements, for example. Agreed.

 And while I generally am will to spend what-it-takes to reasonably fulfill my needs (whether audio, or other), I do admit there is a great deal of satisfaction with finding a "sweet-Spot", or even better, a "value oriented" product that is an over-achiever and exceeds expectations.


----------



## P_1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just the Creative Demo ones that came with my X-FI Xtreme Music card. I'm not really sure if they were better or not, but that was along time ago. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think what I read was that when you rip to those higher formats and then play them back at the higher settings, they don't sound as good as bit perfect at the original rate of the CD. Anyone remember better than I?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ok, that explains it. The ones I am listening to are FLAC rips of vinyl recordings using extremely high end recording gear. PM me if you want to know where I'm getting my music from.


----------



## P_1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *marcus1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi

 Just getting started in Headphones and am trying to figure out what to buy - I've narrowed my headphones to either the Denon D2000/D5000 or the audio-technica ATH-W1000 but, although I've read quite a few threads I'm still confused on what amp to buy. 
 Has anyone done a comparision between the Little Dot mk3 amp and the Zero amp - they both have great reviews, with maybe the LD appearing to work well with all headphones. 
 Is one alot better than the other or is the choice dependant on the headphones you have or the type of music listened to? Any help appreciated!_

 

I personally chose the ath-w5000s over everything else as my end of upgrade path headphones. I will be pairing them with the Zero so I will let you know how they sound with the Zero on Tues/Wed (thats when the headphones come in). The opamp config I will be using in the Zero is the opa627AU's + LME49720


----------



## StratCat

Hmm -

 Looks like we got yet another ebay seller, with an ebay store, too, and pricing similar to Lawrence's:

ZERO 24BIT/192KHz DAC Headphone amplifier - eBay (item 360063914157 end time Jul-02-08 07:41:06 PDT)


----------



## ianp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No problem Ian. It's well worth trying - it's invisible and very simple to do, so if it makes no difference, or - shock horror - sounds worse to your ears, it's a doddle to undo. If it works, then everything can still look neat and tidy to the untrained eye. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ~Phewl._

 

So, I finally got round to doing this bypass capacitor mod and I believe that it has improved the sound. A little more detail and perhaps some more airiness to the sound. These things are kind of subjective by the time you have uncased the PCB, added the caps in and put it all back together 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm showing my age by listening to TELEGRAPH ROAD at the moment. 

 BTW I said I'd post again when my 2nd unit arrived. The USPS website indicates it left China on the 24th and cleared US customs today, so my guess it will be with me on the morrow. I await its arrival with a soldering iron, some resistors and capacitors!


----------



## Oya?

This is OT, but I saw this in his eBay store. Never seen a woodied Dot before.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm -

 Looks like we got yet another ebay seller, with an ebay store, too, and pricing similar to Lawrence's:

ZERO 24BIT/192KHz DAC Headphone amplifier - eBay (item 360063914157 end time Jul-02-08 07:41:06 PDT)_


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oya?* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is OT, but I saw this in his eBay store. Never seen a woodied Dot before._

 

Yep, that's the old LDIII from back when they had the LDII, LDII+, LDII++. It's pretty cool looking.


----------



## kilgoretrout

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fishkill62* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Zero's

 Im currently running 627 in the Dac and 637s in the headamp. It's producing a great dynamic soud on my Akg 701s. There is no shortage of power using the 637s on the Akg's. I suspect the 637s are helpinig here. The sound is a touch bright at the moment (25hrs) however I believe this will settle down after some more burn in. 

 I've tried a further set up as follows..

 M audio 24/96 soundcard>Harmon Kardon Hd 970 cd player dac in/out via coaxial>into the Zero's coaxial dac (627s)>through the Zero's head amp (637s)to the Akg's 701s. 

 This 'double Dac'ing' has given me the best sound so far. I suspect that the Harmon has superior initial digital decoders and this is helping here....

 Cheers Chris...._

 

Sorry, that makes no sense. You're likely imagining any sound improvement. You can't double DAC like that. DAC by definition converts a digital signal to an analog signal. Once the signal has been converted to analog signal, there is no way you can have it go through another DAC. It's just not physically possible without going through an analog to digital convert in between. The reason your setup works is because your Harmon Kardon cd player serves no function in your setup. It accepts the digital signal through coax and simply outputs the same exact signal to the Zero.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *marcus1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi

 Just getting started in Headphones and am trying to figure out what to buy - I've narrowed my headphones to either the Denon D2000/D5000 or the audio-technica ATH-W1000 but, although I've read quite a few threads I'm still confused on what amp to buy. 
 Has anyone done a comparision between the Little Dot mk3 amp and the Zero amp - they both have great reviews, with maybe the LD appearing to work well with all headphones. 
 Is one alot better than the other or is the choice dependant on the headphones you have or the type of music listened to? Any help appreciated!_

 

They are like apples and oranges, one is solid state based amp and the other is tube based amp. Most of the folks here who have a MKIII, are driving it with the Zero's DAC output, for that yummy tube sound. When they want to listen to solid state, they just plug into the Zero's built in headphone amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There really is no comparison of the two, they compliment each other wonderfully. Think flexability!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kilgoretrout* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry, that makes no sense. You're likely imagining any sound improvement. You can't double DAC like that. DAC by definition converts a digital signal to an analog signal. Once the signal has been converted to analog signal, there is no way you can have it go through another DAC. It's just not physically possible without going through an analog to digital convert in between. The reason your setup works is because your Harmon Kardon cd player serves no function in your setup. It accepts the digital signal through coax and simply outputs the same exact signal to the Zero._

 

X2 It is like passing it through another unit unchanged.


----------



## Oya?

I see. Noticed that you maintain a few Little Dot threads as well. I'm thinking of picking one up in the future when I've got an HD600, maybe an MKIII (since I'm too tight to go for the IV or V) and running it out of a Zero like many here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep, that's the old LDIII from back when they had the LDII, LDII+, LDII++. It's pretty cool looking. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks! I hadn't had time to figure that part out yet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've got a bunch to put in there. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

And a belated "You're welcome". I see you've got around to it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW, I've found other UBC/HTML tags other than the default one's supplied in the posting GUI will work as well. For example, the "centering" tags I used to get my "Team Zero" and "slogan" to automatically center in my sig.

 Neat stuff.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oya?* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see. Noticed that you maintain a few Little Dot threads as well. I'm thinking of picking one up in the future when I've got an HD600, maybe an MKIII (since I'm too tight to go for the IV or V) and running it out of a Zero like many here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That would be an excellent combo too! I also like the sleek looks of the MKIII. Yep, I like their amps very much. One of the best deals out there.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And to think, the Zero isn't burned-in yet!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Expect good things to happen very soon. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 X2 to that one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Remember that extra head room when listening at a safe level (85-90db) translates into effortless dynamics, excellent SNR and very little compression during complex signal peaks. It's a well thought out piece of gear for little outlay in cash, hats off to Lawrence for bringing us this little gem. 

 Pench has a nose for good gear 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any of you rich guys
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 tried putting four opa627s in the headamp section?_

 

I tried but the adapter wouldn't clear the back end of the headphone jack assembly on the one channel. I need to shave some pcb off the adapter to get it to fit. I haven't done that yet. I don't use the headphone section on the Zero,other than for testing, since I have a MK III. I'll try it someday soon unless someone else beats me to it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## richierich

Sorry, stupid question. But I just bought this DAC off ebay and the seller wants to know which power supply I need. Which one do we use here in the U.S.?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_wow.. 250 hours on 650 ? people on head-fi talk about 100hrs.... did you really noticed big changes, even after 100hours ?
 Did you had this same sound signature with 650 when it was new ?_

 

At the very least 200 hrs, mine took 300 - 350 before the highs smoothed out and the phones "relaxed". Just keep feeding them music or a burn in signal. Once they get there it's a aural delight 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *richierich* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry, stupid question. But I just bought this DAC off ebay and the seller wants to know which power supply I need. Which one do we use here in the U.S.?_

 

120V.

 Peete.


----------



## Dihnekis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought the whole idea was to play 44khz 16bit, bit perfect?? My understanding was that you couldn't get a sound improvement with higher settings?? It has been a while since I looked around on this, maybe 4 months._

 

If the zero can do 24/96, I'd like to get that out of it, especially as I have 24/96 media. If it is going to be limited to lower than that before I even buy it, then I'm not buying it.


----------



## richierich

lol thanks Peete


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_USPS is taking forever to deliver my HDAM._

 

Finally someone else has bought one....I was feeling all alone on that island....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I look forward to your impressions of it cipher 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Compare notes so to speak. Lawrence recommends 50 hrs of burn in on the HDAM but I found 75 hrs is what it took for mine. YMMV of course. You'll love the damn thing's SQ, that much I can tell you from the get go.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *richierich* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_lol thanks Peete_

 

Your welcome......and welcome to the Zero family 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dihnekis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If the zero can do 24/96, I'd like to get that out of it, especially as I have 24/96 media. If it is going to be limited to lower than that before I even buy it, then I'm not buying it._

 

It can handle 24/96 without a hitch.

 Peete.


----------



## Dihnekis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It can handle 24/96 without a hitch.

 Peete._

 

I thought the pclink usb>spdif adapter limited it to 24/55? My notebook has no spdif out.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dihnekis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought the pclink usb>spdif adapter limited it to 24/55? My notebook has no spdif out._

 

I misunderstood. I thought you meant the Zero. Sorry about that.

 Peete.


----------



## Dihnekis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I misunderstood. I thought you meant the Zero. Sorry about that.

 Peete._

 

It's alright, I thought you might know something I didn't... I still am not even totally sure a problem exists always.


----------



## Shlonglor

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *richierich* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry, stupid question. But I just bought this DAC off ebay and the seller wants to know which power supply I need. Which one do we use here in the U.S.?_

 

110V.

 Lawrence just shipped my Zero + OPA627! Woo! Now to endlessly refresh the tracking page...

 I have a general question about headphones. All this burn-in talk got me wondering. Do they ever reach the point where playing sound degrades their performance? Like, after 10,000 hours or what have you?


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ianp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, I finally got round to doing this bypass capacitor mod and I believe that it has improved the sound. A little more detail and perhaps some more airiness to the sound. These things are kind of subjective by the time you have uncased the PCB, added the caps in and put it all back together 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 [...]

 BTW I said I'd post again when my 2nd unit arrived. The USPS website indicates it left China on the 24th and cleared US customs today, so my guess it will be with me on the morrow. I await its arrival with a soldering iron, some resistors and capacitors!_

 

Heh, maybe you should've ordered two, so you can leave one as a "control".


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_X2 to that one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Remember that extra head room when listening at a safe level (85-90db) translates into effortless dynamics, excellent SNR and very little compression during complex signal peaks._

 

Yep, the first thing I noticed when I received it, was the heft of the package, as several others here have mentioned. When it comes to things analog electrical, it never hurts to start with a big 'ol honking x-former to get the show off the ground, so to speak. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 It's a well thought out piece of gear for little outlay in cash, hats off to Lawrence for bringing us this little gem. 
 

No complaints there. I mean, think of it: These baby's, stock, go for 150 - 180 USD to your door, depending on seller. I paid 160 for my portable DAC/Amp, which had nowhere near the flexibility of a desktop system, not to mention the headroom of an A.C. powered system.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Pench has a nose for good gear 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Heh, now if he could find some sets of cans from some unknown obscure Chinese headphone manufactures that are the equivalent value of some of his amp finds, we'd *really *be on to something!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep, the first thing I noticed when I received it, was the heft of the package, as several others here have mentioned. When it comes to things analog electrical, it never hurts to start with a big 'ol honking x-former to get the show off the ground, so to speak. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 No complaints there. I mean, think of it: These baby's, stock, go for 150 - 180 USD to your door, depending on seller. I paid 160 for my portable DAC/Amp, which had nowhere near the flexibility of a desktop system, not to mention the headroom of an A.C. powered system.


 Heh, now if he could find some sets of cans from some unknown obscure Chinese headphone manufactures that are the equivalent value of some of his amp finds, we'd *really *be on to something! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 






Hehe
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There are a couple of things the Chinese manufactures haven't got right yet, vacuum tubes and headphones. However, that will not be the case forever. They have been able to do so much, so fast, that it resembles the "Japanese" audio movement in the 1970's. If they keep their eye on the ball, we'll see some excellent stuff coming our way soon. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've been looking around for a solid state pre-amp, about the size of the Zero, with tape loops and 3-4 other inputs. Something that could be used as a "controller" for several inputs and a couple of tube headphone amps and an output for a main amp or two. It should be designed to accommodate "single ended users" who NEED control badly. No more swapping cables would get a lot of peoples attention. Such a unit would be a big hit with us headphone amp types. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'd also like to find a simple analog dial type power meter unit. Something that would read power output for headphone amps in real time. Again, about the size of the Zero.

 I keep looking and eventually, I'll find something worth owning and reviewing.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





Hehe
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There are a couple of things the Chinese manufactures haven't got right yet, vacuum tubes and headphones. However, that will not be the case forever. They have been able to do so much, so fast, that it resembles the "Japanese" audio movement in the 1970's._

 

 Good analogy, IMO.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thx ciphercomplete, 

 You supplied a great deal of info to the questions I specifically wondered about. And yes, that was what I was hoping: That the 501/701's would have a similar sound signature to the AD700's (you described them well from memory), but they would have "more of the same and better", correct? Actually, I was looking for something similar in sound signature to the AD700's, but of higher general quality, and a bit more bass ideally.

 I only have one further clarification: Can I assume the 501 and 701 sound signatures and sound quality are similar?

 It was the 701's I was firstly considering, initially using the Zero's HP amp, and possibly a SS amp at a later date or as required. Plus, I don't believe I saw the 501's on AKG's site. Perhaps they're discontinued.

 Thx again._

 

Yep, the k501s are discontinued but there is a lot of new old stock out there. Plus someone is always selling a pair in the F/S forum. I feel sorry for anyone who sells them though. 

 I have not heard the k701 yet. I am planning on buying one during the firesale that is certain to occur when the k702 comes out in August. You might want to wait too if you can. 

 I don't think that the k501s have a ton more bass than the ad700. It is better quality and is more detailed. The more power you give the k501s the more bass it has though. I can't say the same about the ad700. One thing is for sure though the k501 doesn't miss anything. If the source says there is bass then the k501s will produce it. The audible quantity or size is what the extra power helps out with. I have yet to hear a note on even my most bass happy cans (Goldring DR150) that I don't hear on the k-501 albeit the bass wasn't as "big". FWIW, from all accounts the k701 has more bass. 

 The k701 needs alot of power from what I hear but not nearly as much as the k501. I read one post where a guy was pumping 2 watts into a pair of k501s
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. He also said the bass was exceptional FWIW. I think they only need about 500mw to 1watt to sound their absolute best. My MK III gives them about 350mw and I am satisfied with that for the time being. This is what I like most about the k-501, everytime you get better and more powerful equipment it gains new powers so to speak. 

 But back to the thread topic, if you have no plans to go into debt searching for the best amp for the k501s anytime soon just keep in mind that the k701 is a much more sensitive can and will be powered better with the Zero Amp than the 501 will. Plus some people prefer it to the k501.


----------



## vvanrij

Check this out Penchum:

CIAudio PLC-1

 Ridiculously expensive though


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_At the very least 200 hrs, mine took 300 - 350 before the highs smoothed out and the phones "relaxed". Just keep feeding them music or a burn in signal. Once they get there it's a aural delight 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Great! I was already worried about not liking its sound signature on high frequencies.

 So far 63,9 of burn-in..... i've stopped using pink noise and start to use XLO Reference Recordings Burn-in track of the Test $ Burn-in CD.


 So, you do have this same "hard" high signature with it on the beginning ?
 What about the high intensity instruments overcomming details of the lower intensity one ? Did you noticed that too ?


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shlonglor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_110V.

 Lawrence just shipped my Zero + OPA627! Woo! Now to endlessly refresh the tracking page...

 I have a general question about headphones. All this burn-in talk got me wondering. Do they ever reach the point where playing sound degrades their performance? Like, after 10,000 hours or what have you?_

 

I think no one was ever able to check this........ but well, like all mechanic system it suffers from stress (repetitive stress), oxidation, humidity, and stuff like that....
 One day it'll sure come to fail...... but I have no clue when that use to happen with headphones neither what it should sound like near the end of the life cycle.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Check this out Penchum:

CIAudio PLC-1

 Ridiculously expensive though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 






Great googly moogly!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 WAY to expensive in the extreme! Oh well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wish Little-Dot or Zero would make a "hard wired" unit with quality switches onboard. The cost would be low and it's usage could be very flexible. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It wouldn't have to be large either. Maybe something in a MKIV case or Zero case. That would be nice.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think no one was ever able to check this........ but well, like all mechanic system it suffers from stress (repetitive stress), oxidation, humidity, and stuff like that....
 One day it'll sure come to fail...... but I have no clue when that use to happen with headphones neither what it should sound like near the end of the life cycle._

 

There are some folks here, who have HD-580's that are over 10 years old, still making them happy, so it seems time is on our side (with proper treatment).


----------



## vvanrij

I don't think it would be so hard to make yourself actually, or let it be custom made for you by someone, maybe even being made out of a zero (so you already have the amp, just need to add some RCA in's and a switching knob?)


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There are some folks here, who have HD-580's that are over 10 years old, still making them happy, so it seems time is on our side (with proper treatment). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Oh well.... 10 years ?! If my 650 serves me for all this time... I'll be much happy to give him a well deserved rest 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But this was exactly what I was trying to say... In normal use conditions a headphone may last for so long, that it's really hard to someone use it for that long or even it doesn't get accidentally damaged before really wear out.


----------



## ogc

Hello, everyone. I have spent a long time to read this thread and it has been very interesting. First of all thanks to Penchum for a great review. One of the best I have read here I think. Secondly thanks to all who have been testing all those different countless combos with opamps to find the best pairs. 

 But to my problem. I don´t really know a lot about these things, so I am really unaware what sort of usb-interface/pc-link should I get, if I buy a zero amp. I have 12" apple powerbook that doesn´t have digital out at all. What do you guys suggest to use in my case with zero ?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh well.... 10 years ?! If my 650 serves me for all this time... I'll be much happy to give him a well deserved rest 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But this was exactly what I was trying to say... In normal use conditions a headphone may last for so long, that it's really hard to someone use it for that long or even it doesn't get accidentally damaged before really wear out._

 

With care they can last indefinitely IMO. I have a pair of AKG's from 82 that are still going strong (the inner ear foam disc disintegrated, that's to be expected) without issue. They've been abused slightly to boot. The 650's get the white glove treatment. I can see them lasting quite a long time, easily 15 years or more.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ogc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello, everyone. I have spent a long time to read this thread and it has been very interesting. First of all thanks to Penchum for a great review. One of the best I have read here I think. Secondly thanks to all who have been testing all those different countless combos with opamps to find the best pairs. 

 But to my problem. I don´t really know a lot about these things, so I am really unaware what sort of usb-interface/pc-link should I get, if I buy a zero amp. I have 12" apple powerbook that doesn´t have digital out at all. What do you guys suggest to use in my case with zero ?_

 

You'll need a Sound card of some type with coax or toslink output jack(s). I'm not familiar with Mac notebook accessories so hopefully someone can help with that.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shlonglor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_110V.

 Lawrence just shipped my Zero + OPA627! Woo! Now to endlessly refresh the tracking page...

 I have a general question about headphones. All this burn-in talk got me wondering. Do they ever reach the point where playing sound degrades their performance? Like, after 10,000 hours or what have you?_

 

More like a million hours under normal usage (not exposed to UVA/UVB, water, sand, dirt...chemical solvents etc....) Ok that might be a bit of a stretch 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 IMO they can last years and years and years with proper care and occasional maintenance.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great! I was already worried about not liking its sound signature on high frequencies.

 So far 63,9 of burn-in..... i've stopped using pink noise and start to use XLO Reference Recordings Burn-in track of the Test $ Burn-in CD.


 So, you do have this same "hard" high signature with it on the beginning ?
 What about the high intensity instruments overcomming details of the lower intensity one ? Did you noticed that too ?_

 

Yeah...I didn't like the highs at all. Etched and peaky, that goes away completely past 250 + (give or take 50). You'll soon hear the change at the rate your going D 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't think it would be so hard to make yourself actually, or let it be custom made for you by someone, maybe even being made out of a zero (so you already have the amp, just need to add some RCA in's and a switching knob?)_

 

Or perhaps buy an older pre-amp with a crappy case, cheap, then work out how to transfer it into a new case with new RCA's and switches. That might be do-able.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh well.... 10 years ?! If my 650 serves me for all this time... I'll be much happy to give him a well deserved rest 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But this was exactly what I was trying to say... In normal use conditions a headphone may last for so long, that it's really hard to someone use it for that long or even it doesn't get accidentally damaged before really wear out._

 

I see what you mean. For the Senns, the use of special materials may keep them running for a very long time. I guess I plan on ordering a new set of drivers and pads before they go out of production, but that might be far into the future. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If the exterior of the phones stays in good shape, then this would make sense. If they get nasty, well, I suppose I would be looking at whatever new models they'll have out then. (HD-2000)


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see what you mean. For the Senns, the use of special materials may keep them running for a very long time. I guess I plan on ordering a new set of drivers and pads before they go out of production, but that might be far into the future. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If the exterior of the phones stays in good shape, then this would make sense. If they get nasty, well, I suppose I would be looking at whatever new models they'll have out then. (HD-2000) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah...I didn't like the highs at all. Etched and peaky, that goes away completely past 250 + (give or take 50). You'll soon hear the change at the rate your going D 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Guys, I'm a little upset right now... I guess I miss judged burn in volume intensity.... it seems that my right 650's driver went through a non desired overstress............................ he's making a strange noise on heavy bass music (like tocata)...... the same sound as if the coil was not right.... you know what I mean.... although it's very low and only on low bass music, it's there......... is my 650 doomed ?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Guys, I'm a little upset right now... I guess I miss judged burn in volume intensity.... it seems that my right 650's driver went through a non desired overstress............................ he's making a strange noise on heavy bass music (like tocata)...... the same sound as if the coil was not right.... you know what I mean.... although it's very low and only on low bass music, it's there......... is my 650 doomed ?_

 

Like a rattling sound ?

 Peete.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Like a rattling sound ?

 Peete._

 

Yes Peete... like that...
 At least on car's speakers, this is really not good....
 Well... as I started to listen to it..... it was gradually rolling to higher volumes..... maybe something is wrong, but as the headphone heats, it can go away with exception of higher volumes...


 Diego


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I wouldn't say doomed as anything is repairable. What volume did you have the amp at for burn in ? I hardly ever go past 9 o'clock on the MK III for music and lowered the volume to 8 for burn in signals. Gain set at 10.

 Peete.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wouldn't say doomed as anything is repairable. What volume did you have the amp at for burn in ? I hardly ever go past 9 o'clock on the MK III for music and lowered the volume to 8 for burn in signals. Gain set at 10.

 Peete._

 

well.... I use Zero amp..... I usually use 11 o'clock for burn-in... 9 to 10 to listen....
 Is that too high for burn-in ?


 The problem is getting it repaired here in Brazil....


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Tough break D, I feel for you....

 Might be a damaged voice coil. Do you have access to an authorized dealer/service center in your neck of the woods for Sennheiser gear ?

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I hardly go over 9 on the Zero listening to music. Burn in I used between 8 and 8:30 (on the Zero). That's just my preference though.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Crap I just noticed the problem with regards to obtainig service in Brazil.

 Dang.....I'll go to the Senn web site and see what I can dig up for you.

 Peete.

 Heres a link to Sennheiser service centers in Sao Paulo D

Sennheiser Worldwide: Microphones, Headphones and Wireless Systems


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Crap I just noticed the problem with regards to obtainig service in Brazil.

 Dang.....I'll go to the Senn web site and see what I can dig up for you.

 Peete._

 

Thanks man, I much appreciate....
 I just don't have buying recipt......

 So if it's too $$$$ for this repair, I'll just live with it, as it is nothing too unconfortable and isn't heard untill 11 o'clock =]


----------



## dacavalcante

I'm a little afraid of going on with burn in.... what do you think ?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

It isn't heard until 11 ? That's different. I thought it was happening at all volume levels. You might be just fine then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Worth getting in touch with one those service centers and ask what they think and how much it would cost to have them checked out. For peace of mind at least.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm a little afraid of going on with burn in.... what do you think ?_

 

Just use music at 9 for the remainder of the process. Er on the safe side is my motto 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just use music at 9 for the remainder of the process. Er on the safe side is my motto 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Ok... I'll do that....

 Well it was, when I got home and started to listen to music, even on 9 I could hear it..... but 3 or 4 tracks later it was up to 11..........

 Anyway..... I think I'll be fine


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I'd still call the service center for a professional opinion. Who knows it might be a cheap fix, the call is free and so is the advice. Worthwhile to do so Diego IMHO.

 Peete.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd still call the service center for a professional opinion. Who knows it might be a cheap fix, the call is free and so is the advice. Worthwhile to do so Diego IMHO.

 Peete._

 

I'll try to do that Peete, I just don't trust on repair services here... but it doesn't hurts to check what some o them have to say.... I'd rather take it to the US for repair...


----------



## 4EvrChaser

Howdy,

 Well, I finally received my ZERO. It was delivered on the 26 but I was out of town. I picked it up from my Postal Office early this morning. It has been burning in for a few hours now (7). After listening to it a little, I have to say I am very impressed with it in regards/compared to my other DACs and amps. I am sitting here with a smile on my face thinking “man, not bad for $230.”
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 So, if it is this nice…its only going to get better with time. At least that is what I am hoping for.


----------



## jojoarmani

Stupid question: how do you plug it to your computer to access a USB port? I don't think their are cables that'll do that, are there?

 USB to SPDIF was a suggestion on thread but it died. Any solution?

 I was going to make mk III + Zero to the computer but i may have to go with a USB/DAC/Amp...


----------



## vvanrij

Search on ebay USB SPDIF


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jojoarmani* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Stupid question: how do you plug it to your computer to access a USB port? I don't think their are cables that'll do that, are there?

 USB to SPDIF was a suggestion on thread but it died. Any solution?

 I was going to make mk III + Zero to the computer but i may have to go with a USB/DAC/Amp..._

 

Here

 This was the one included with my Zero, which was bought through this seller.


----------



## StratCat

Hrm

_ciphercomplete_ was good enough to give me some advice as to what he felt was proper driving power for K701's, and it just occurred to me:

 I can't find the Zero's HP Amp's output power specs. The Zero's manual (Eng. ver.) does list an "Analog Output Voltage" of 2V, but is silent on power. I do seem to recall some discussion of output pwr way back in the thread somewhere. 

 Anyone recall?


----------



## StratCat

After reading _dacavalcante's_ series of posts about his burn in issue (ouch man, hope it works out), it occurred to me I don't know the correct orientation of the notch on my OEM volume control. I R&R'd the knob, and now don't remember the off position, nor could I glean it from any thread pics easily.

 Is lowest volume at 180 deg lower vertical (6 O'clock)? Or perhaps at the "-" sign (7:30)?

 Utterly stupid simplistic question, I know, but this way I could relate to discussion about volume and dial position.

 Thx.


----------



## richierich

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Scroll down the page until you see the knob and this line:
 KNOBS- 64392 Solid Brass - matte silver, 6mm - shaft diameter with Allen/socket screw mount 26 $13.75 _

 

It's now $22.95! Did the price of Brass metal go up that fast in only 6 months? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Anyways I just keep re-reading this whole thread while waiting "patiently" for my Zero to come in.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After reading dacavalcante's series of posts about his burn in issue (ouch man, hope it works out), it occurred to me I don't know the correct orientation of the notch on my OEM volume control. I R&R'd the knob, and now don't remember the off position, nor could I glean it from any thread pics easily.

 Is lowest volume at 180 deg lower vertical (6 O'clock)? Or perhaps at the "-" sign (7:30)?

 Utterly stupid simplistic question, I know, but this way I could relate to discussion about volume and dial position.

 Thx._

 

I think if you line up the indicator to the - sign lock it down and rotate it, it tops out pointing at the + sign. If this is correct, then that should be the correct orientation. Does that sound correct to you??


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *richierich* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's now $22.95! Did the price of Brass metal go up that fast in only 6 months? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyways I just keep re-reading this whole thread while waiting "patiently" for my Zero to come in. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That is really sad, especially from one of our "sponsors". I don't know of another source for those knobs, so they might have us up against the wall.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well.... I use Zero amp..... I usually use 11 o'clock for burn-in... 9 to 10 to listen....
 Is that too high for burn-in ?


 The problem is getting it repaired here in Brazil...._

 

I burn-in at regular listening volumes most of the time.

 I'm curious about this "rattle". If it is a driver element going, you should hear the same "rattle" on ALL music, at the same volumes. If not, a couple of things come to mind: The Senns are letting you hear recorded distortion (this happens often with MP3 at lower rates), or you might have part of the driver not seated all the way into the plastic "snap-in" grid, inside, and it's vibrating with the bass notes.

 Both of these are "possible" so ruling them out is a good idea.


----------



## Dihnekis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here

 This was the one included with my Zero, which was bought through this seller._

 

Did anyone determine if this goes all the way to 96khz?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dihnekis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did anyone determine if this goes all the way to 96khz?_

 

I've got an email out to Lawrence, to verify which is correct. I hope to hear from him today.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think if you line up the indicator to the - sign lock it down and rotate it, it tops out pointing at the + sign. If this is correct, then that should be the correct orientation. Does that sound correct to you??_

 

Nah, that would be too easy!

 Starting at the” –“ sign ends up finishing at 6 O'clock/pointing straight down. That's where I have it now. I didn't realize the knob/shaft wasn't indexed when I removed it. Duh.

 I wouldn't doubt it's right, tho. Actually, I wouldn't even care if I wasn't hanging out in this thread!


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dihnekis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did anyone determine if this goes all the way to 96khz?_

 

Yeah, nothing here from me either, not that I was looking, TBH. I was just pointing out to _jojoarmani_ what came with my unit.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nah, that would be too easy!

 Starting at the” –“ sign ends up finishing at 6 O'clock/pointing straight down. That's where I have it now. I didn't realize the knob/shaft wasn't indexed when I removed it. Duh.

 I wouldn't doubt it's right, tho. Actually, I wouldn't even care if I wasn't hanging out in this thread! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ow, duh! I just realized I have the upgraded pot. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Need more coffee!!


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ow, duh! I just realized I have the upgraded pot. [...]_

 

And knob, too, IIRC!


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I burn-in at regular listening volumes most of the time.

 I'm curious about this "rattle". If it is a driver element going, you should hear the same "rattle" on ALL music, at the same volumes. If not, a couple of things come to mind: The Senns are letting you hear recorded distortion (this happens often with MP3 at lower rates), or you might have part of the driver not seated all the way into the plastic "snap-in" grid, inside, and it's vibrating with the bass notes.

 Both of these are "possible" so ruling them out is a good idea._

 

No, it doesn't happen on ALL music..... well... this songs are on Flac, from Hi-Fi recordings, so I don't think it's recording distortion.....
 So, a driver not well seated into the grid could be a chance..... it is like the driver was over excursionating and hiting something with bass at high level...

 But, how do I rule it ? I'm kind of scared of opening a headphone that costs almost $1050,00 here in Brazil.....


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, it doesn't happen on ALL music..... well... this songs are on Flac, from Hi-Fi recordings, so I don't think it's recording distortion.....
 So, a driver not well seated into the grid could be a chance..... it is like the driver was over excursionating and hiting something with bass at high level...

 But, how do I rule it ? I'm kind of scared of opening a headphone that costs almost $1050,00 here in Brazil....._

 

I understand. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I get the jitters every time I take mine apart! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 First, disconnect the cord from the headphones. It is a plug, so pull straight down. The outside grill, is removed by pulling outwards from the top. There is just enough room at the top, to get your fingers in the small gap there. Once that is removed, look at the very center. The round bit is the driver, with the square tube running down to the bottom of the cup, which contains the driver leads. You can remove it by pulling gently outwards on the driver. You'll see the plastic locks that hold the driver in place, and once you re-insert the driver, you can make sure they lock securely. While the driver is out, inspect it for damage or foreign material laying in or around it. I wouldn't recommend touching the driver's face. It is delicate in the extreme. Then put everything back the way it came out.

 A caution: When you re-insert the plugs for L & R, the pins are different in diameter and must be put in correctly. The easy way to tell if you are doing it correctly, is to look at the plug. If the L or R on the plug is facing you, you are doing it the correct way. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just checked one of mine and sure enough, it was not locked all the way in. So I'm glad this came up.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, it doesn't happen on ALL music..... well... this songs are on Flac, from Hi-Fi recordings, so I don't think it's recording distortion.....
 So, a driver not well seated into the grid could be a chance..... it is like the driver was over excursionating and hiting something with bass at high level...

 But, how do I rule it ? I'm kind of scared of opening a headphone that costs almost $1050,00 here in Brazil....._

 

It sure is a unique problem! Do you have another pair of headphones available? I was wondering if you could check those tracks with a different pair, to see if the bass is super low, or perhaps distorted and you can hear it with the other headphones? 

 Another test, would be to switch the L & R plugs on the headphones, to see if the "problem" crosses over to the other channel?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dihnekis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did anyone determine if this goes all the way to 96khz?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've got an email out to Lawrence, to verify which is correct. I hope to hear from him today. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Here is the reply from Lawrence:

 Dear Sir ,

 Yes, you are right!
 The official data sheet told us that it is 24bits and up to 55KHz. It is not 24/96.
 But up to this moment , many USB to SPDIF adaptor only up to 16/44.1
 UDA1321PS is almost the top chip among the market competitors.

 Thank you very much !

 Best regards,
 Lawrence

 So, there you have it.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I understand. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I get the jitters every time I take mine apart! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 First, disconnect the cord from the headphones. It is a plug, so pull straight down. The outside grill, is removed by pulling outwards from the top. There is just enough room at the top, to get your fingers in the small gap there. Once that is removed, look at the very center. The round bit is the driver, with the square tube running down to the bottom of the cup, which contains the driver leads. You can remove it by pulling gently outwards on the driver. You'll see the plastic locks that hold the driver in place, and once you re-insert the driver, you can make sure they lock securely. While the driver is out, inspect it for damage or foreign material laying in or around it. I wouldn't recommend touching the driver's face. It is delicate in the extreme. Then put everything back the way it came out.

 A caution: When you re-insert the plugs for L & R, the pins are different in diameter and must be put in correctly. The easy way to tell if you are doing it correctly, is to look at the plug. If the L or R on the plug is facing you, you are doing it the correct way. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just checked one of mine and sure enough, it was not locked all the way in. So I'm glad this came up. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It sure is a unique problem! Do you have another pair of headphones available? I was wondering if you could check those tracks with a different pair, to see if the bass is super low, or perhaps distorted and you can hear it with the other headphones? 

 Another test, would be to switch the L & R plugs on the headphones, to see if the "problem" crosses over to the other channel?_

 

Great ideia, I'll try first to switch L & R, and I still got my 555 around here, I just have to unbox it..... After doing these verifications I can possibly know if it's a headphone problem or recording.........
 If it's a headphone problem, I'll follow your guide to try fixing this strange noise.... I'll let you know what happened


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I understand. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I get the jitters every time I take mine apart! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 First, disconnect the cord from the headphones. It is a plug, so pull straight down. The outside grill, is removed by pulling outwards from the top. There is just enough room at the top, to get your fingers in the small gap there. Once that is removed, look at the very center. The round bit is the driver, with the square tube running down to the bottom of the cup, which contains the driver leads. You can remove it by pulling gently outwards on the driver. You'll see the plastic locks that hold the driver in place, and once you re-insert the driver, you can make sure they lock securely. While the driver is out, inspect it for damage or foreign material laying in or around it. I wouldn't recommend touching the driver's face. It is delicate in the extreme. Then put everything back the way it came out.

 A caution: When you re-insert the plugs for L & R, the pins are different in diameter and must be put in correctly. The easy way to tell if you are doing it correctly, is to look at the plug. If the L or R on the plug is facing you, you are doing it the correct way. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just checked one of mine and sure enough, it was not locked all the way in. So I'm glad this came up. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Could you upload a video to youtube teaching how to do that ?
 Because I'm freak scared of trying it.....


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Could you upload a video to youtube teaching how to do that ?
 Because I'm freak scared of trying it..... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Sorry! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There was a website that had pictures of it, but I can't seem to find it now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyone else know where one is??


----------



## 4EvrChaser

Howdy Dacavalcante,

 I had a problem like yours on my DT 770/80 and after using the search on this problem.
 It turned out to be a known problem, which was a hair touching the driver.
 Also, if I remember correctly, at Headphile website he had something on how to remove
 the grill to install one of his upgraded grills. At least you can see how remove the grill.


----------



## Dihnekis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here is the reply from Lawrence:

 Dear Sir ,

 Yes, you are right!
 The official data sheet told us that it is 24bits and up to 55KHz. It is not 24/96.
 But up to this moment , many USB to SPDIF adaptor only up to 16/44.1
 UDA1321PS is almost the top chip among the market competitors.

 Thank you very much !

 Best regards,
 Lawrence

 So, there you have it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks for sorting that out! I'm probably just gonna wait until I get a better computer with spdif out.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ianp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, I finally got round to doing this bypass capacitor mod and I believe that it has improved the sound. A little more detail and perhaps some more airiness to the sound. These things are kind of subjective by the time you have uncased the PCB, added the caps in and put it all back together 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm showing my age by listening to TELEGRAPH ROAD at the moment. 

 BTW I said I'd post again when my 2nd unit arrived. The USPS website indicates it left China on the 24th and cleared US customs today, so my guess it will be with me on the morrow. I await its arrival with a soldering iron, some resistors and capacitors!_

 

Good stuff. Glad to hear you found an improvement 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. The difference was very noticeable on mine, but mine hadn't been used long enough to meet the common "burn in" criteria - not that I have much belief in it... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe I'm wrong. and that's why the difference was so apparent to me with my unit...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

AP did you get the HDAM yet ? I'm curious about your thoughts on it's SQ.

 Peete.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There was a website that had pictures of it, but I can't seem to find it now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyone else know where one is??_

 

Oh... =(

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *4EvrChaser* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Howdy Dacavalcante,

 I had a problem like yours on my DT 770/80 and after using the search on this problem.
 It turned out to be a known problem, which was a hair touching the driver.
 Also, if I remember correctly, at Headphile website he had something on how to remove
 the grill to install one of his upgraded grills. At least you can see how remove the grill. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hah! Great! I'll check for that


----------



## suneohair

Hey I am new here, and very new to the high-end audio stuff 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am really interested in the Zero and am looking to buy one. Is this ebay seller ok: wsz0304

 They have an "upgrade" version which has the OPA627. One thing I am not clear on is whether or not the OPA627 drives the headphones or just the line out. The price for this one is $166. They have the older version with the OPA2604 for $151, so this upgrade one seems to be a good deal. 

 I have not picked the monitors yet. But I am thinking something like the AD700 or K601/701. From what I have read here, the Zero should have no problems with this. 

 Thanks for your help!


----------



## Nedman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *suneohair* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey I am new here, and very new to the high-end audio stuff 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am really interested in the Zero and am looking to buy one. Is this ebay seller ok: wsz0304

 They have an "upgrade" version which has the OPA627. One thing I am not clear on is whether or not the OPA627 drives the headphones or just the line out. The price for this one is $166. They have the older version with the OPA2604 for $151, so this upgrade one seems to be a good deal. _

 

I just got mine delivered about an hour ago. The OPA627 is only on the DAC side, mounted on a duel sided adapter [one top and one bottom]. On the amp side it seems to be two NE5532P's. I say seems because I haven't got very good eye sight and I had a lot of trouble trying to read the print, and my camera seemed to be having as much trouble as me seeing the fine printing [I think we are both out of date 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ]. But if I squinted and used a magnifying glass, I could definitely see OPA627 written on it.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *richierich* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's now $22.95! Did the price of Brass metal go up that fast in only 6 months? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I wonder if this could be caused in part, by a combination of a drastically fallen U.S. dollar, the long run in commodities, and much higher transportation costs due to fuel prices. 

 It's a 65% increase, and I'm not saying it's justified, but I've been seeing 6 mos and 1 yr old posts here with prices on cans that are substantially under the current prices I'm seeing (tho not to the degree of the knob). I just attributed the disparity it to the fallen dollar, etc.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *suneohair* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 [...]

 I have not picked the monitors yet. But I am thinking something like the AD700 or K601/701. From what I have read here, the Zero should have no problems with this. 

 Thanks for your help!_

 

From my experience, the Zero's stock HP/amp will easily drive the AD700's to any level you'd likely use, and then some. I'm currently running AD700's (amongst others) out of my Zero just fine. Then again, my two AT cans I've had (AD700 + A700) seem pretty easy to drive, IMO.

 As for the K701's, I may become lucky enough to answer that question later this week. I'll have to see what I can work out tomorrow.


----------



## tinseljim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *4EvrChaser* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ After listening to it a little, I have to say I am very impressed with it in regards/compared to my other DACs and amps. I am sitting here with a smile on my face thinking “man, not bad for $230.”
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Good news welcome to the the Zero family 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm interested in the fact that you think the Zero competes well with the other DACs you own:

 ZERO
 RAM DAC-AH
 IBASSO D1
 BITHEAD (06)

 How would you rate them in preference? Maybe we could keep an ongoing list of DACs and their relative subjective ratings (similar to SkyLabs portable list).

 In A/B comparisons for DAC alone my list would be:

 1. Zero (OPA627s)
 2. Yamaha DSP-E800

 BTW what mods did you have done on your Zero to get it up to $230?


----------



## Shlonglor

How do you guys measure how long your gear's been burned for? Rough estimate or some sort of super scientific method?


----------



## tinseljim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shlonglor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How do you guys measure how long your gear's been burned for? Rough estimate or some sort of super scientific method?_

 

I made my own pinknoise track in audacity (left out of phase with right so that it cancels itself out mostly (actually with earbuds it was silent in the right position.). Anyway the track is 30min. long and has 30sec of silence built in to it. So when I get new gear I reset my play count to zero on that track and then burn away. 

 Look at the play count and divide that number by 2 for burn-in hours. Works like a charm. 

 Of course you could do this with any length track but the division gets more complicated! (unless your piece is an hour long ----> burn-in hours=play count)

 James


----------



## Nedman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tinseljim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I made my own pinknoise track in audacity (left out of phase with right so that it cancels itself out mostly (actually with earbuds it was silent in the right position.). Anyway the track is 30min. long and has 30sec of silence built in to it. So when I get new gear I reset my play count to zero on that track and then burn away. 

 Look at the play count and divide that number by 2 for burn-in hours. Works like a charm. 

 Of course you could do this with any length track but the division gets more complicated! (unless your piece is an hour long ----> burn-in hours=play count)

 James_

 

There's also the Bink Audio Test CD, which you can download 20 min of pink noise and 2min of silence [track 58 & 59]. Which might help people who don't have audacity.

Michael Knowles: Extras < Test CD here.


----------



## StratCat

Re: Burn-in -

 You know, after discussion here of possible HP damage while burning in our Zero's, I was thinking it might be a good thing to use a dummy load. All that's needed would be an old phone jack, a resistor, some solder and an iron, and 5 mins of time. It wouldn't present a true RLC load, but I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work just fine. 

 And w/o the limits of our phones, we could really crank it up, too, and stress this little baby. I know with my AT and Denon cans (32 and 25 Ohms impedance, respectively), I'm only using, oh, maybe 25%, tops, of the max pwr output, as reflected by the position of the volume pot when burning in. If even that.

 There'd be no audible noise, nor wear and tear on our phones, nor chance of damaging them inadvertently, either. Wonder if anyone tried this before?

 Edit: Sry, *two* resistors NOT *a* resistor!


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tinseljim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I made my own pinknoise track in audacity (left out of phase with right so that it cancels itself out mostly (actually with earbuds it was silent in the right position.)._

 

Heh, out-of-phase?, Very slick. Really.


----------



## ciphercomplete

OK I just got my HDAM about an hour ago. Its never coming out of the Zero. I will do a more extensive write up later but I wanted to share my initial reaction.

 The first thing I heard was soundstage! Not just width but on my superior recordings, HEIGHT! The HDAM does this with incredible ease. If you listen to alot of live music or music recorded in one take with live instruments you have got to get the HDAM.

 I am going to get to work on soldering a wire adapter together so I can put the Zero's top back on. As it is now the HDAM is about 3/4 of an inch to tall to allow the top back on the unit.


----------



## Citizen86

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *suneohair* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey I am new here, and very new to the high-end audio stuff 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am really interested in the Zero and am looking to buy one. Is this ebay seller ok: wsz0304

 They have an "upgrade" version which has the OPA627. One thing I am not clear on is whether or not the OPA627 drives the headphones or just the line out. The price for this one is $166. They have the older version with the OPA2604 for $151, so this upgrade one seems to be a good deal._

 

I'm also wondering about this ebay seller, he's selling the Zero for $150 US shipped! That's a ridiculous price for such a nice desktop dac/amp. Even if it has the older opamp, it's easy enough to get free samples of some better ones 

 Anyone bought from wsz0304?


----------



## 4EvrChaser

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tinseljim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm interested in the fact that you think the Zero competes well with the other DACs you own.

 How would you rate them in preference?

 BTW what mods did you have done on your Zero to get it up to $230?_

 

Howdy tinseljim,

 Thank you for the welcome.
 Yes, with about an hour of listening to the ZERO, since it is burning in, I was impressed. I try to listen about an hour every day while I have something burning in to see if and how the sound is changing.

 Let me clarify my statement, this was my “first impression” of the ZERO with regards/compared to my other DACs and Amps from memory of how they first sound with a few hours of burn in. I am a firm believer in putting in at least one hundred hours or more 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 on all of my audio equipment. After, they have stabilized and there are no more changes that I can detect, then I listen and make a decision of what I think about the gear 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. So, in a couple days I will be able to tell you how I would rate them in my order of preference. I think it was StratCat that wanted to A/B the ZERO and Total Bithead (Have to remember to bring the Bithead home from work).

 The mods that I had done to the ZERO was to add the OPA627AU in the DAC section but asked to keep the stock to compare later and I also had the default volume pot changed out for the ALPS volume pot.


----------



## 4EvrChaser

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shlonglor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How do you guys measure how long your gear's been burned for? Rough estimate or some sort of super scientific method?_

 

Howdy,

 This is how I burn in my equipment.
 I pick some of my favorite tracks (APE format) from different genre with good amount of variation in the audio along with some pink noise, some silence and frequencies sweeps (not more than a couple minutes of the last three).
 Put foobar 2000 on repeat play of the playlist.
 Go into Preference, Playback and at the Total Time Played – I hit RESET.
 Then as the playlist play I can look at the total time played and know how much time I have on the burn in.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *4EvrChaser* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Howdy,

 This is how I burn in my equipment.
 I pick some of my favorite tracks (APE format) from different genre with good amount of variation in the audio along with some pink noise, some silence and frequencies sweeps (not more than a couple minutes of the last three).
 Put foobar 2000 on repeat play of the playlist.
 Go into Preference, Playback and at the Total Time Played – I hit RESET.
 Then as the playlist play I can look at the total time played and know how much time I have on the burn in._

 

I thought this would be a good time to "add" in my method of burn-in.

 I use a music source like an MP4 player or my notebook. I select a variety of music, then put the player or software player into repeat mode and get the process started. Sometimes I listen in, sometimes I don't, but I always keep tabs on what is happening as often as I can. I use the alarm function in my cell phone, to remind myself it is time to "check it out". 4 days is 96 hours, so I usually stop there, and do some critical listening. This is usually enough time and I can decide what to do next. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This works great for everything but tube amps. Ow, and I always vary the volume, never exceeding levels that are considered "normal" listening levels.

 For tube amps, I stop running them at 8 hours, let it cool to room temperature, then start up the next 8 hour session. The 1 hour cool down makes me use my alarm a little more, but it keeps my new tube amp from hurting itself.


----------



## 4EvrChaser

Howdy Penchum,

 I also vary the volume but I turn the volume a little higher then my normal listen volume then lower the volume to where I can just bearly hear it then back to my normal listening level for a few hours each. This is repeated throughout the burn in cycle.
 Everyone has their own way of burn in and this is what I do from reading all of the other ways that other people burn in their equipment.

 With all of what I have read with people using tube amp and my want of one is driving me crazy!
 I promised my wife after buying the ZERO and a new headphone for the new computer that we got. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I would lay off for a while again. This is a bad place to visit. She is about to limit my time on the internet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just a little off topic – Penchum (or anyone else), do you think the LD IV SE would be a good tube amp for the Sony MDR-SA5000 and Ultrasone HFI-780? TIA!!

 OOPS!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Got to go. See is eyeballing me. Time for dinner. See (Talk) to y’all later.


----------



## koppite

Hello all!

 Well, it just arrived! 6 Days after Lawrence sent it. I'm literally sitting here and laughing because of how awesome this sounds. UNREAL.

 Couple remaining questions: I saw some discussion of this before and am still unclear. I have the PCLink USB to Optical connector. Any thoughts on the quality of this device/cables/etc? I'm going to order an optocoupler and will report back any differences. Anyone have some thoughts for now?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK I just got my HDAM about an hour ago. Its never coming out of the Zero. I will do a more extensive write up later but I wanted to share my initial reaction.

 The first thing I heard was soundstage! Not just width but on my superior recordings, HEIGHT! The HDAM does this with incredible ease. If you listen to alot of live music or music recorded in one take with live instruments you have got to get the HDAM.

 I am going to get to work on soldering a wire adapter together so I can put the Zero's top back on. As it is now the HDAM is about 3/4 of an inch to tall to allow the top back on the unit._

 

Wait till it's fully run in.....I love mine, it just simply is at another level ....no other way to describe it. Should hear depth along with width and height + fluid, unrestricted dynamics. Bass is unreal 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Treble is smooooooooth 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm glad another head fi'er has joined the HDAM owners group 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Theres two of us now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 Peete.


----------



## Enthusia

I am perplexed, doesn't the headphone amplifier come stock with the zero dac, or is there something I am missing here.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

It's a DAC with a separate headphone amp in one chassis, so yes Enthusia you are correct. It can perform preamp duties as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What has you perplexed ?

 Peete.


----------



## Enthusia

Well you guys keep talking about this HDAM like its the second coming of Jesus.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

The HDAM replaces the dual opamp in the DAC analog output section and yes it's quite impressive. 20 pages or so back I wrote a mini review about it.

 It's not the second coming (I doubt there was a first coming, that's another debate) but it is IMHO better SQ wise, than ANY opamp you can get for the Zero DAC section. I have OPA627BP's and have just completed an exhaustive test (Part II) of the two (HDAM/627's) in the DAC section. Should be up by tomorrow evening 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Peete.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_X2 That is what I "gleaned" as well. If I remember correctly, it is super easy to get bit perfect in Vista, but XP and OSX need software and plug-ins to get it done. That about right??_

 

Bit perfect? Are you referring to ripping CDs? You don't need any special software in Mac OS X for that, just turn on *Error correction* in iTunes in the *Import* settings under *Advanced*. For audio playback, it's a non-issue.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *marcus1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi

 Just getting started in Headphones and am trying to figure out what to buy - I've narrowed my headphones to either the Denon D2000/D5000 or the audio-technica ATH-W1000 but, although I've read quite a few threads I'm still confused on what amp to buy._

 

I have a Little Dot MKV which I'm using with markl-modded D5000's. The result with the Zero in the path and a good optical cable has been fantastic. See my sig for the full kit.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ogc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But to my problem. I don´t really know a lot about these things, so I am really unaware what sort of usb-interface/pc-link should I get, if I buy a zero amp. I have 12" apple powerbook that doesn´t have digital out at all. What do you guys suggest to use in my case with zero ?_

 

For older Macs without the optical digital out, you'd need a USB "sound card" that has either coaxial or optical digital outputs.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Enthusia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well you guys keep talking about this HDAM like its the second coming of Jesus._

 

Damn, this means I'm going to have to get one now. Might have to track down some 7N copper wire and do a bit of soldering too so I can close the lid afterwards.


----------



## Nedman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Citizen86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm also wondering about this ebay seller, he's selling the Zero for $150 US shipped! That's a ridiculous price for such a nice desktop dac/amp. Even if it has the older opamp, it's easy enough to get free samples of some better ones 

 Anyone bought from wsz0304?_

 

Got mine Monday off wsz0304 , the upgraded one. The upgraded OPA627 is only on the DAC side, mounted on a duel sided adapter [one top and one bottom]. Took 8 days to get here from HK to rural Australia. I'm very happy with it.

 I took some photos of it which I posted on this page.
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...ml#post4404819


----------



## ccschua

Can we pin the page where peete gave review on the HDAM. Sometimes I keep coming back for the review.

 Also I wonder if any guys has modded the ZERO for better smoother high/SQ (less digital effects more analog feel).


----------



## koppite

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koppite* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello all!

 Well, it just arrived! 6 Days after Lawrence sent it. I'm literally sitting here and laughing because of how awesome this sounds. UNREAL.

 Couple remaining questions: I saw some discussion of this before and am still unclear. I have the PCLink USB to Optical connector. Any thoughts on the quality of this device/cables/etc? I'm going to order an optocoupler and will report back any differences. Anyone have some thoughts for now?_

 

ANyone?


----------



## Citizen86

Thanks for the reply Nedman. Good to know he's legit, although it's $50 bucks to mexico. 
 I don't think anyones had one shipped this far south, but another question, how much import tax are being charged on these to the US? I can have it shipped there also.


----------



## Penchum

I just got an email from Lawrence, telling me of a new deal he has going for HeadFi members. I was inquiring about the price of a new Zero for my second analog stack and here is what he said:

 "If you have a chance, please let the forum members know my new offer.
 I'll like to sell Zero at $139 together with the opamp upgrades that is 1 module OPA627AU in the analog section and 2pcs LT1364 in the headamp section."

 So there you have it. A Zero with a great Opamp combo already combined!
 If you have questions, email Lawrence at lawrencechanbig@msn.com


----------



## Enthusia

So that means you don't have to do the hdam mod anymore Penchum?


----------



## Citizen86

Nice deal, that's one of the best combos I believe.... Sounds like laurence wants some more business, there seem to be more than just 1 other person selling these now.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Enthusia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So that means you don't have to do the hdam mod anymore Penchum?_

 

Well, I'm going to do the HDAM upgrade to one of my Zero's for sure. I think the one I use for headphone amps and mini system. I just have to know the difference first hand. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've learned to trust PP's ears and if he says it sounds great, I'm a believer. I "think" my headphone amps might benefit the most from the HDAM in the Zero. It's only a theory though. It might do well in one of my analog stacks too, I'd just have to test it all out after burn-in.

 My second Zero is feeding my pride and joy, the Pioneer SPEC system stack. This one also has the OPA627's and LT1364's on board, and the DAC output sounds fantastic with this system.

 The third Zero would be for my Yamaha stack. I have an Entech Number Cruncher 205.2 DAC in this stack, but I did a A/B comparison between the Entech and Zero last night, and the Zero with OPA627AU's and LT1364's, really put the Entech too shame by a large margin! Now that we can get the Zero pre-configured with this same combo of Opamps, I'm sure to order one soon.


----------



## Shlonglor

Well **** me! I just paid 200$ for one. :/


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got an email from Lawrence, telling me of a new deal he has going for HeadFi members. I was inquiring about the price of a new Zero for my second analog stack and here is what he said:

 "If you have a chance, please let the forum members know my new offer.
 I'll like to sell Zero at $139 together with the opamp upgrades that is 1 module OPA627AU in the analog section and 2pcs LT1364 in the headamp section."

 So there you have it. A Zero with a great Opamp combo already combined!
 If you have questions, email Lawrence at lawrencechanbig@msn.com_

 

Hey Penchum, I was thinking here.... could you possible talk to lawrence and convince him to make a "huge" discount on HDAM modules ? So we can grab some guys here and make a conjunt buy ?
 As most of us here are Lawrence's costumers...... it would be nice from him... =]


----------



## Shlonglor

Double post.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I'm going to do the HDAM upgrade to one of my Zero's for sure. I think the one I use for headphone amps and mini system. I just have to know the difference first hand. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've learned to trust PP's ears and if he says it sounds great, I'm a believer. I "think" my headphone amps might benefit the most from the HDAM in the Zero. It's only a theory though. It might do well in one of my analog stacks too, I'd just have to test it all out after burn-in.

 My second Zero is feeding my pride and joy, the Pioneer SPEC system stack. This one also has the OPA627's and LT1364's on board, and the DAC output sounds fantastic with this system.

 The third Zero would be for my Yamaha stack. I have an Entech Number Cruncher 205.2 DAC in this stack, but I did a A/B comparison between the Entech and Zero last night, and the Zero with OPA627AU's and LT1364's, really put the Entech too shame by a large margin! Now that we can get the Zero pre-configured with this same combo of Opamps, I'm sure to order one soon. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You could always swap it around to each Zero as you listen to it. Trust me once you get one you won't go back. It's equally impressive no matter what's at the output of the Zero be it to a MKIII/IVSE/V or your Pioneer Spec gear.

 I'm just about to post the final installment of the mini review Pench, just proof reading and such.

 Should be up in 20 minutes.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Mini - Review Part II Zero DAC - Analog Output Section - HDAM vs OPA627BP

 Preface....

 To start I'd like to thank those that have supplied information, guidance and advice in this huge Zero thread to which I hope to contribute yet another option for those willing to experiment 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I've spent many hours of late giving equal time to the objects in question, in hopes of giving either method of choice, for your Zero, an exhaustive series of sound quality evaluations. The intent of the reveiw is to disect the attributes of each approach, it's advantages vs cost and sound quality in the Zero DAC analog section only. 

 I have decided to use my main rig for the listening sessions (in Part II) since it's resolution makes my job that much easier. 

 With that out of the way here is the list of related gear for the test.......

 Source - 

 JVC XL-FA92 DVD-A (7 disc changer) digital coax output via silver serpant .5m -----> Zero coax input -----> Musical Fidelity X-10D V3 + X-PSU (PF mod) -----> MIT 330 Series III 2.5 m cable -----> Preamp - Meixing MC-7R pre (RCA 5751 x 2, RCA 12AU7 cleartops x 2, RCA Jan 5U4G rectifier x 1 ) ----- > MIT 330 Series II 2.5 m cable ------->

 Analog Crossover (active) - 

 Marchand 3 way crossover ----> MIT 330 Series II 2.5 m ----> 125 HZ High Pass ouput to midrange and ribbon tweeter panels on main speakers, 50 HZ High Pass to bass driver on main speakers, Variable Low Pass set at 60 HZ - to stereo subs. All xover slopes are 2nd order except sub. Sub is 4 th order Linkwitz Reily.

 Power Amps - 

 Meixing MC34-AB all tube stereo power amp, Sylvania black plate 5965-12AT7 sub x 2, Sylvania 6SN7 GTB chrome domes - 50's vinatge x 2, Jinvina Blue Glass EL34 x 8 *. Dual mono with outboard PS transformers in a "Power Humpty" config connected to main chassis by heavy duty screw terminal cables. Handles ouput from Crossover for mid/tweeter on main speakers. 
 * Rated at 75 w/channel ultralinear (grossly underated power output IMO) 40 w/channel triode.
 Odyssey Stratos with 120K filter cap upgrade- Solid state 150 w/channel stereo. Takes 50 HZ high pass from Crossover to bass driver on main speakers. 

 CDP - Source **

 Ah Njoe Tjoeb 4000 with all upgrades except super clock. Modified with Mil spec Russian PIO bypass caps in PSU and Analog output. NOS Tesla Mil Spec gold pin 6922 x 2. Nordost Blue Heaven .6m to pre.
 ** used in last part of reveiw head to head against other source (stack) for comparison.

 TT, Cassette Deck, Tube phono amp- not used in test.

 Main Speakers

 Eminent Technology LFT-VIIIB - hybrid planar/ribbon tweeter/dynamic 8" woofer. Bi amped with Nordost Blue Heaven II speaker cable (double run not bi wire) banana plugs x 2. Edison price binding posts on ET speakers. Internal crossover first order on mid/hi panel, 2 order on bass driver.

 Stereo Subs + Active digital eq (the secret weapon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Behringer Feedback Destroyer Pro *** set for dual channel digital parametric eq ). Dayton Audio 12" Titanic II drivers w/500 watt mono plate amp (top of line type from Dayton) in 3 cubic foot MDF cabs x 2. Stacked in corner of room as a tower. 2ft clearance from side and back wall. 
 *** Time aligned (crudely) and painstakingly EQ'd to ameliorate room anomalies. It is acting on signal below 60 HZ only from Marchand Xover stereo sub outputs.

 Cabling from pre to Xover to Amps - MIT, Xover to Behringer- Silver serpant RCAs, Behringer to Subs - Dayton audio sub cable 4 m each.

 Yikes, wiring and set up of this monster is a PITA. Not to mention powering it all. Ran dedicated (installed by myself...pretty damn easy really) 20 amp lines x 2 to 4- ACME 20 amp receptacles (gold plated and cryo'd ) via plain old but heavy as hell 10 gauge solid core Romex 10/2 w ground.


 On to the results....

 Rather than list the source music.... this test period ran the same CD's from first part (part I). If you don't recall what those were please take a few minutes to look at Part I farther back in the Zero thread. Thanks for your attention so far. I know it's quite a bit of gear to read through, but I'm convinced that knowing the equip used for the test is crucial for the reader to know. 

 Zero - BB OPA627BP

 First up we have the brown dog adapter with 2 OPA627BP chips installed in the Zero's Analog DAC section. Alowed 2 hours warm up (because of the tube gear) playing test rotation of music.

 During opening cut of DT disc, the ambience and tolling bell seemed to envelope me from 2 sides ( more like 180 degrees ) . Great image projection from side to side, with the speakers almost dissappearing. It seemed that the image would alternate between narrow and wide throughout this CD. I'm not sure what the mixdown engineer was trying to accomplish on this disc. Still, to be able to critique that mix in the first place is a sign of the SQ edge the OPA627's give the Zero.
 Similar characteristics are exihitbed by the OPA627 as what I would call the BurrBrown house sound. With the change from the Zero head amp to the analog outs in Part II, the cymbal work has lost some of it's whitish metallic edge. Although it's still present it's reduced which is a welcome addition. Considering the Zero head amp section is a throw in, it does a credible job especially when the stock opamps are swapped for the well known LT1364s. Hats off to Lawrence for including this quality "throw in" to the Zero. Bass is solid, somewhat polite but rendered with truth of timbre.Tonal spectrum is recessed slightly in upper mids with a roll off in the extreme highs. Typical BB characteristics observed in Part I. The level of this recess is less so when straight out from the Zero's analog outputs. Nice. On the Gladiator Sound Track Lisa's voice lost it's slight sibilant quality noticed when using the Zero HA stage. Strings soar above brass instruments, SFX come through with clarity, percussion has nice solid foundation and transient speed. Slightly polite rendition once again, but not ragged or hard. Instrument overtones can be picked out although not without some concentration in complex passages. A compression of crescendos is still noticed. We are talking about compressing the dynamics by a slight amount. If you have a HDAM you'll be able to notice this fairly easily, without the HDAM you may not notice it at all. The polite bass actually helps this CD since it's overdone to begin with. Imaging is very good, another 627 strength, with solid placement and plenty of space around the instrument. Hall ambiance and delay echoes trail off into the distance with realism. Very good overall in this respect. I did notice a tendency to cut them short if hit with a sudden increase in complexity and volume. Not a big deal IMO but worth mentioning.
 On the Musical Fidelity Sound Lab's remaster of U2's The Joshua Tree one can't help but notice the really poor quality of the bass guitar's tracks. It's fat, bloated, sounds like a 50 dollar Fender Precision knock off being amped through a crappy SUN amp with blown speakers and worn out tubes. I don't know why the engineers recorded the bass this way. Of course this level of insight into the oddly recorded bass is laid bare by the 627 and due to it's polite nature in this region helped mitigate that flaw somewhat (IMHO it's a major drawback to the album as a whole). I think it was Daniel Lanois's first recording as sound engineer with U2 ( I could be wrong about that). Steve Lillywhite had been the engineer on the precceeding effort "The Unforgettable Fire" IIRC. With that caveat the rest of the album's instruments and especially Bono's Vox are exceptionally done. MFSL have done a fantastic job restoring the edge's jangle without overshadowing Bono's rasp. The 627's allow a perfect window into this passionate interplay. What a great vocalist he was ( he can no longer maintain that vocal style IMO, it takes incredible effort and youth ). It's a fairly simple album without tons of overdubs and that can be a blessing. I noticed much less compression with this CD on complex passages. Interesting......
 The 627 does a great job with this difficult recording managing to present it as a whole while hi-lighting the individuals without much alteration or fan fare. 

 I have to say once again the 627 is a quality opamp maybe the best ever made (so far) and continues to be the Deusenburg (SP ?) gold plate standard for playback SQ. Others will disagree with this statement, that's just fine...it's all subjective after all
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It sure does a fine job on the main rig !!!

 It's been a difficult process to arrive at since Part I covered many of the traits the 627 has and have in Part II. What I'd like to talk about now is the level of these traits between test configs. The latter test has been much more difficult to notice these drawbacks due to the Zero's HA section being removed from the playback loop. In a nutshell the 627 does have a polite nature, recessed hi mid, and rolled of highs, a slight metallic edge on cymbals,bells, etc....but it also renders voice,stringed instruments, synths, percussion with startling realism and truth of timbre. I've purposely focussed on these attributes in hopes of painting a picture between what the 627 does or doesn't do and what the HDAM does (there isn't a doesn't do with the HDAM as I have found out).

 I know this is a long (mini) review, thanks for not falling asleep or jumping to another post. I promise it won't be much longer....(famous last words)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Zero - HDAM Module


 Once everything was powered back up and left to settle for a 2 hour period before listening I couldn't help but notice, that during the warm up period as music was playing (85 db) the dynamic scale of the music seemed immediately larger.......kind of caught me off guard a little. So I grabbed a coffee and sat out on the deck letting the warm up period pass without listening further and trying to clear my memory through a little meditation. Well that time period flew by rather quickly and downstairs I went, refreshed, full of caffeine and ready to listen 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Same rotation of music in random order this time around.

 DT CD six degrees of turbulence - The dynamics of the Cd are apparent from the get go, like a gut punch the kick drum hammers away, snare has it's unique snap and decay, cymbals sound real, hi hat is easily discernible. Cymbals from ride to crash to splash all have the correct tone, decay, and transient impact. A cymbal is both lightning fast and slow at the same time. A very difficult sound to reproduce. The HDAM does a commendable job on these, best I've heard so far, but alas it does not have the last ounce of realism. I think that may have to do with the DAC as a whole rather than the HDAM itself. That analogy also takes into account the 627. To what degree can the Zero be upgraded to squeeze more out of it is an exercise in an upcoming article . Needless to say I think even more can be squeezed from the Zero for little outlay of cash !!! What needs to be said time and time again, and I'm guilty of this, is the fact that this DAC is a bargain basement budget piece of kit. Spending wads of cash on boutique PIO film caps, expensive resistors and such is kind of defeating the point.
 With that "hey buddy get your head out of the clouds" its a 150 dollar DAC how can it be any damn good at all and why would you spend 80 bucks on a HDAM. Cause it's sounds great,flat out toe tapping, big stupid grin, musical, expansive....great
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I love listening to DT on this rig......
 Petrucci is one hell of great guitarist, not for his blinding speed but his ability (like Jeff Becks) to get the instrument to sing. If you've ever played electric guitar you'll know what I'm talking about. For those who don't know I'll attempt to explain. Certain areas on the neck of a well made guitar, the notes, if played with great finesse, will combine both fundamental and harmonic with the first harmonic becoming dominant through controlled feedback with the amp, vibrato technique of the player and careful manipulation of the guitars volume and tone control knobs. The absolute beauty of this type of playing (melodic single note run ) is Beck's hallmark and Petrucci's to a lesser extent. The HDAM allows this beauty to be fully explored and enjoyed. I could listen to Beck until my ears bleed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Jeff Beck and Jan Hammer Live is another great listen ....The 627 for the most part portrays this delicate interplay between artist and instrument but not at the level the HDAM does. I'm impressed every time I listen to this cut ( Misunderstood) and try to get past it without hitting replay. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It just seems so relaxed yet muscular at the same time. Transient speed is outstanding as is SNR. Simply put I won't listen to DT without the HDAM installed in the Zero. The Zero/HDAM is only bested by my modified Ah NJoe Tjoeb 4000. Only after I modified the Tjoeb could I say that with conviction. You could buy 2 Zero's with HDAM for just the upsampler unit in the Tjoeb. Again I have to pinch myself, it's only 150 + 80.........the Tjoeb is 1600.00 with all options and then some.

 Here are some of the observations from my listening notes over the last 3 weeks.......lightning fast transients, unrestrained dynamics, huge 3D image, no compression of complex passages, layering of track's recording easily discerned yet presents track as coherent musical whole. Bass delivered without emphasis or color. Mids have bite when called upon yet are liquid smooth, highs are presented with no artificial sheen or metallic edge, what is on the disc comes across as recorded. Makes you forget the details and enjoy the immersive nature of the experience. That last thought is what makes it for me, out of all the other attributes, if it doesn't sweep you away to another place then what's the point of listening in the first place ? The HDAM and to a slightly lesser degree the 627 allow me to enjoy the music for what it is.

 CONCLUSION.......finally 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Before you jump to the conclusion that I'm over hyping a 200 dollar DAC bear this in mind. To me a monetary value only tells one part of the story. The real value of anything is in it's enjoyment, it's ability to scale with modifications and add on options.....on this front the Zero delivers in spades whether you choose the OPA627 in the DAC section or the outstanding HDAM module. I think back to when digital meant LED watches that cost 1000 US when they first came out....
 35 years ago 250 US wouldn't buy you jack squat in audio other than a piece of junk. 

 Thank god for the Chinese, long live Chinese Audio 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shlonglor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well **** me! I just paid 200$ for one. :/_

 

For a HDAM ? 

 Peete.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shlonglor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well **** me! I just paid 200$ for one. :/_

 

If you purchased it on Ebay from Burson Audio you are likely getting two HDAMS not just one. Just sell the extra one if thats the case.


----------



## Enthusia

Awesome review Peete, the zero dac just rose to the top of my to buy list.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Thanks for the kind words Enthusia. I appreciate it !!!!

 It's got lots of tweaking potential (within reason) this little DAC has 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got an email from Lawrence, telling me of a new deal he has going for HeadFi members. I was inquiring about the price of a new Zero for my second analog stack and here is what he said:

 "If you have a chance, please let the forum members know my new offer.
 I'll like to sell Zero at $139 together with the opamp upgrades that is 1 module OPA627AU in the analog section and 2pcs LT1364 in the headamp section."

 So there you have it. A Zero with a great Opamp combo already combined!
 If you have questions, email Lawrence at lawrencechanbig@msn.com_

 

Good to see the axiom "competition is good for the breed" at work, possibly? 

 Not sure if he is willing to throw in the OEM op amps as part of the deal, but that would make it an even sweeter deal! FWIW, he was nicely generous with me in his handling of the USB Link confusion I had when I placed my order (he tossed it in for free).


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *4EvrChaser* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think it was StratCat that wanted to A/B the ZERO and Total Bithead (Have to remember to bring the Bithead home from work)._

 

Yep, 'twas I!

 Missed by one day, too. I would've like to have known for myself, at the time, but there also were several ppl asking this in this thread early on. Haven't seen anyone asking this in a long while, tho. I've already posted, from memory, that the dynamic range, headroom, and power output of the Zero is by far superior.

 I really didn’t want to comment more than that, 'cuz I don't believe I can reliably comment on a piece of equipment from memory, rather than direct A/B. I would feel comfortable posting, from memory, what I remember of a direct A/B test I had done in the past, but would not try to compare a currently owned device with formerly owned one, strictly by memory.

 I no longer care, but if you'd like to comment for edification in this public thread, pls be my guest.


----------



## ianp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am going to get to work on soldering a wire adapter together so I can put the Zero's top back on. As it is now the HDAM is about 3/4 of an inch to tall to allow the top back on the unit._

 

I'm interested in what the procedure for fitting the HDAM module is and how easy is will be to get it all within the confines of the case. Please let us know how you get on and maybe post some pics.

 Thanks


----------



## ianp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Penchum, I was thinking here.... could you possible talk to lawrence and convince him to make a "huge" discount on HDAM modules ? So we can grab some guys here and make a conjunt buy ?
 As most of us here are Lawrence's costumers...... it would be nice from him... =]_

 

+1 on that. I'm in for a group buy.

 Thanks


----------



## StratCat

Just an FYI -

 My Beyer DT880's (2005 - 250 Ohm) just arrived in-house today, and I'm driving them to nice levels (easily as loud as I'd care to go) with the stock Zero HP Amp. I have zero burn-in time on these new cans, so I wouldn't want to critically comment on the Zero's SQ at this time, but my initial impression, an hour in, is favorable. I am using a lot more of the pot than my Denon's or AT's, which is not unexpected, I suppose, given the much higher impedance of the Beyer's.

 My demo AKG 701's will arrive tomorrow, and I'm anxious to see how the Zero handles them. I hope nicely, since I'd like to take some time to get my headphone fleet established (I'm using different cans for different genres) before I start looking into amps.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mini - Review Part II Zero DAC - Analog Output Section - HDAM vs OPA627BP_

 

Thank you very much, Peete!

 /me decides to start bookmaking pertinent posts w/i the thread so he never_has_to_search_blindly_again

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank god for the Chinese, long live Chinese Audio 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

_I'm turning Chinese 
 I think I'm turning Chinese 
 I really think so...

 *da da da dot dot dot dah*_

 Oops…right continent, wrong nationality!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Penchum, I was thinking here.... could you possible talk to lawrence and convince him to make a "huge" discount on HDAM modules ? So we can grab some guys here and make a conjunt buy ?
 As most of us here are Lawrence's costumers...... it would be nice from him... =]_

 

Lawrence and I only have a buying/selling relationship. He knows I frequent HeadFi and he's aware that you guys are the ones buying from him. I pass on information sometimes and I've sent him "tough" emails when members had problems with shipping over the holidays. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you wanted to do a group buy thing with him, I'm sure he would work out a deal with you guys. Go ahead and email him about it. He's always been fair and good to us, so I'm sure if he can, he will work up something.


----------



## ccschua

Mark my word. There will be a new device to replace HDAM and its better. The wait is 2 months.

 Finally I settle to DY2000 as my DAC opamp. I am so happy with it. The tube feel and laid back nature is something that suits me best.


----------



## Shlonglor

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For a HDAM ? 

 Peete._

 

No, for the Zero Lawrence is selling. :/ Without the LTs, actually, but at least I got the samples I ordered yesterday.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mini - Review Part II Zero DAC - Analog Output Section - HDAM vs OPA627BP

 "What needs to be said time and time again, and I'm guilty of this, is the fact that this DAC is a bargain basement budget piece of kit. Spending wads of cash on boutique PIO film caps, expensive resistors and such is kind of defeating the point. With that "hey buddy get your head out of the clouds" its a 150 dollar DAC how can it be any damn good at all and why would you spend 80 bucks on a HDAM. Cause it's sounds great,flat out toe tapping, big stupid grin, musical, expansive....great
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




." 

 "Makes you forget the details and enjoy the immersive nature of the experience. That last thought is what makes it for me, out of all the other attributes, if it doesn't sweep you away to another place then what's the point of listening in the first place ? The HDAM and to a slightly lesser degree the 627 allow me to enjoy the music for what it is."

 "Before you jump to the conclusion that I'm over hyping a 200 dollar DAC bear this in mind. To me a monetary value only tells one part of the story. The real value of anything is in it's enjoyment, it's ability to scale with modifications and add on options.....on this front the Zero delivers in spades whether you choose the OPA627 in the DAC section or the outstanding HDAM module." 

 "Thank god for the Chinese, long live Chinese Audio" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Very well done PP!! Mail my ears back to me soon. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You made some very good points in Pt 2, a few of them are above. You have managed to put words to the Zero's enticement, which is very hard to do. I remember when I bought my second Zero, everyone was like, "why would you do that?" and I'd just smile. Potential is part of the magic, low cost is the other part of the magic. Whether you call this "getting in cheap" or "low cost start up", the flexibility and ease of use, make the Zero a pleasure to operate and the output is simply outstanding. With this new deal (Zero + 627's + LT1364's), top notch performance delivered too your door for $179 is just plain fantastic!

 Who'd a thunk it!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mark my word. There will be a new device to replace HDAM and its better. The wait is 2 months.

 Finally I settle to DY2000 as my DAC opamp. I am so happy with it. The tube feel and laid back nature is something that suits me best._

 

Ok, spill it. We are all ears.


----------



## ccschua

Well the designer of Burson HDAM is disputed to be from China. He had replied something better than HDAM is coming in 2 months time.
 Below the reply.

 你好,我们已没有生产这样的OPA,但估计在两个月内会有两款更理想的新OPA生产
 Within 2 months, a better OPA will be produced.


 --------

 Penchuum,

 Why not u shoot out the DY2000 (metal can) and give us a review. The sound will be as smooth as silk, and its 10 times better than Ceramic. Now I like my DY2000 so much, I think dy2000 in DAC section is great for your Littledot tube amp.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well the designer of Burson HDAM is disputed to be from China. He had replied something better than HDAM is coming in 2 months time.
 Below the reply.

 你好,我们已没有生产这样的OPA,但估计在两个月内会有两款更理想的新OPA生产
 Within 2 months, a better OPA will be produced._

 


 Evolutionary change is always welcome 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm glad they are continuing development of the module (in China 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). 

 There are ways to tweak the current HDAM (see "Burson opamp 101" page at Burson Audio for details). I just finished that (module /cap - 1.0 uf 160V PIO) tweak 5 minutes ago and am in the process of double checking my work before power up.

 Email Lawrence and ask him where Burson gets their HDAM 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Very well done PP!! Mail my ears back to me soon. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You made some very good points in Pt 2, a few of them are above. You have managed to put words to the Zero's enticement, which is very hard to do. I remember when I bought my second Zero, everyone was like, "why would you do that?" and I'd just smile. Potential is part of the magic, low cost is the other part of the magic. Whether you call this "getting in cheap" or "low cost start up", the flexibility and ease of use, make the Zero a pleasure to operate and the output is simply outstanding. With this new deal (Zero + 627's + LT1364's), top notch performance delivered too your door for $179 is just plain fantastic!

 Who'd a thunk it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks for the positive feedback Penchum !!!!! I tried this time around to explain what I heard using a different tack, cutting back on the usual audiophile flowery commentary. Your additional points are as always informative and salient 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Lawrence has done a great job keeping his finger on the pulse of his customers and changing the Zero's stock package to meet those demands. What more could one ask for ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Can anyone imagine trying this approach with Pioneer or Marantz etc etc ? You'd get laughed at, and that is sad.

 Peete.

 PS Your ears are on the way (via Fed Ex overnight Express 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) Sorry about the peanut butter, they were itching like mad


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lawrence and I only have a buying/selling relationship. He knows I frequent HeadFi and he's aware that you guys are the ones buying from him. I pass on information sometimes and I've sent him "tough" emails when members had problems with shipping over the holidays. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you wanted to do a group buy thing with him, I'm sure he would work out a deal with you guys. Go ahead and email him about it. He's always been fair and good to us, so I'm sure if he can, he will work up something. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes, I know that, but I think you're the closer person to him, here on head-fi =]

 Well... I can talk to him also..........

 So, let's start to make a list of buyers ?!?!?


----------



## wsz0304

very good!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

The cap tweak is running without issue as we speak. This PIO cap (Russian K42Y-2) will take 200 to 250 hrs to form, so I'll reserve judgment until then. 

 Sounds good so far.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you very much, Peete!

 /me decides to start bookmaking pertinent posts w/i the thread so he never_has_to_search_blindly_again



I'm turning Chinese 
 I think I'm turning Chinese 
 I really think so...

 *da da da dot dot dot dah*

 Oops…right continent, wrong nationality! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks StratCat 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thats a good idea. Part I is on page 378, and Part II is on page 422.

 LOL .......I am believer in the emergence of Chinese Audio technology. They've had 20 years to work the kinks out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete


----------



## Pricklely Peete

test to see if sig works.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

By all means try a good after market power cable on the Zero and your amp (if you have one). I'm using John Risch DIY designs. Cheap at 35 dollars each and very effective upgrades. 

 Peete.


----------



## P_1

Just got my w5000's, adjusted the fit, plugged everything in, and pure bliss. I have not listened to my w5000s without the Zero yet, but so far it sounds like the w5000s work well with the Zero with opa627/lme49720's


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just an FYI -

 My Beyer DT880's (2005 - 250 Ohm) just arrived in-house today, and I'm driving them to nice levels (easily as loud as I'd care to go) with the stock Zero HP Amp. I have zero burn-in time on these new cans, so I wouldn't want to critically comment on the Zero's SQ at this time, but my initial impression, an hour in, is favorable. I am using a lot more of the pot than my Denon's or AT's, which is not unexpected, I suppose, given the much higher impedance of the Beyer's.

 My demo AKG 701's will arrive tomorrow, and I'm anxious to see how the Zero handles them. I hope nicely, since I'd like to take some time to get my headphone fleet established (I'm using different cans for different genres) before I start looking into amps._

 

Don't forget that all those new phones will need some time on the clock, before they "sweeten" up.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ianp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm interested in what the procedure for fitting the HDAM module is and how easy is will be to get it all within the confines of the case. Please let us know how you get on and maybe post some pics.

 Thanks_

 

I'll be making my first attempt at an adapter tomorrow. I did a couple of trial soldering runs yesterday and it shouldn't be difficult at all. I have two extra opamp pin bases, one for each end of the adapter, so I can avoid directly soldering wires to the HDAM or directly into the Zero. I didn't want to lose the ability to one day use regular opamps if I get the urge. 

 If I am successful I will post what I did within a couple days along with a comparison between the HDAM w/o the adapter and the HDAM with it.


----------



## Currawong

One trick I did soldering wires for another device was to use wire the same internal gauge as the pins required, then simply strip away the necessary length of insulation and solder the exposed wire as it was to make pseudo pins out of the end.


----------



## Oya?

Quote:


 *Delivery Status*
 Arrived and is being processed.

*Event Date*
 3-Jul-2008


----------



## ianp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll be making my first attempt at an adapter tomorrow. I did a couple of trial soldering runs yesterday and it shouldn't be difficult at all. I have two extra opamp pin bases, one for each end of the adapter, so I can avoid directly soldering wires to the HDAM or directly into the Zero. I didn't want to lose the ability to one day use regular opamps if I get the urge. 

 If I am successful I will post what I did within a couple days along with a comparison between the HDAM w/o the adapter and the HDAM with it._

 

Thanks. I actually did a quick google for the burson opamp 101 page mentioned earlier and found - Burson discrete Opamp 101 - which also has some images of extensions.







[p]
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




[p]


----------



## Nedman

It would be handy if they or someone made an 100mm male/female extension lead.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_By all means try a good after market power cable on the Zero and your amp (if you have one). I'm using John Risch DIY designs. Cheap at 35 dollars each and very effective upgrades. 

 Peete._

 

I don't get... which benefits a power cable brings to zero !?


----------



## P_1

With all this talk about the HDAM, wouldnt it be relatively easy to take it apart and look at how the pcb is laid out + what components it uses and make cheap clones ourselves?


----------



## Enthusia

Yeah sure if you want to solder like a ton of delicate hardware onto a pcb, just cross your fingers and hope it will work at the end.


----------



## P_1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Enthusia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah sure if you want to solder like a ton of delicate hardware onto a pcb, just cross your fingers and hope it will work at the end._

 

I wouldn't say that they are delicate, from what I can see its just transistors and resistors; both of which are pretty durable. I mean anyone with decent soldering experience would be able to do it.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ianp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks. I actually did a quick google for the burson opamp 101 page mentioned earlier and found - Burson discrete Opamp 101 - which also has some images of extensions.






[p]
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




[p]
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



_

 


 Well I finished it. It wasn't that hard considering that this was my first real soldering job. With that said I will probably order a couple more opamp bases and make another one. I had the basic skill of soldering down but I didn't truly "get it" until I was halfway through making this adapter. So in couple of days I will make a stronger, faster, prettier one lol and maybe get some rubber shrink instead of using bootleg electrical tape. 

 I won't post too many pics because it basically looks like the one you see above except I have my HDAM plugged into a spare opamp pin base instead of directly soldering wires to it.

 I found no discernable differences in sound between when my HDAM is plugged straight into the Zero compared to using the adapter (which is all you can hope for). I am still A/Bing though so if I notice a difference between the two setups I will post the details.

 Here are some pics.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I finished it. It wasn't that hard considering that this was my first real soldering job. With that said I will probably order a couple more opamp bases and make another one. I had the basic skill of soldering down but I didn't truly "get it" until I was halfway through making this adapter. So in couple of days I will make a stronger, faster, prettier one lol and maybe get some rubber shrink instead of using bootleg electrical tape. 

 I won't post too many pics because it basically looks like the one you see above except I have my HDAM plugged into a spare opamp pin base instead of directly soldering wires to it.

 I found no discernable differences in sound between when my HDAM is plugged straight into the Zero compared to using the adapter (which is all you can hope for). I am still A/Bing though so if I notice a difference between the two setups I will post the details.

 Here are some pics.
 snip_

 

First, excellent job! My hats off to you for jumping in with both feet!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I feel much better about ordering mine now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Are you going to make a stand of some sort, for it to lay in and have air flow considerations too? I've been thinking about this, but nothing concrete has popped up yet.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_First, excellent job! My hats off to you for jumping in with both feet!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I feel much better about ordering mine now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Are you going to make a stand of some sort, for it to lay in and have air flow considerations too? I've been thinking about this, but nothing concrete has popped up yet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeah, I haven't come up with anything yet. I don't quite know where to put it within the case. Whatever I come up with will be very low tech though lol. 

 The HDAM doesn't get too hot FWIW, not nearly as hot as my regular opamps.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, I haven't come up with anything yet. I don't quite know where to put it within the case. Whatever I come up with will be very low tech though lol. 

 The HDAM doesn't get too hot FWIW, not nearly as hot as my regular opamps._

 

I can confirm this as well. Just gets warm, nothing more. Nice job on the jumpers cipher 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *P_1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With all this talk about the HDAM, wouldnt it be relatively easy to take it apart and look at how the pcb is laid out + what components it uses and make cheap clones ourselves?_

 

You can't match the transistors and other components cold (as in off the shelf). They have to be matched after burn in and when powered up. Check out Burson Audio site for the details. It's way more involved than one would think.

 Peete.


----------



## P_1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can't match the transistors and other components cold (as in off the shelf). They have to be matched after burn in and when powered up. Check out Burson Audio site for the details. It's way more involved than one would think.

 Peete._

 

According to some of the information in this thread, Burson Audio buys their HDAM's from some manufacturer in China. I would assume the transistor matching they are talking about is ********.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *P_1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_According to some of the information in this thread, Burson Audio buys their HDAM's from some manufacturer in China. I would assume the transistor matching they are talking about is ********._

 

Yes they are sourced from the same OEM in China that Lawrence gets his modules from. Burson are talking about the manufacturing process for these modules which they either saw first hand on a business trip or were supplied with this information to post on their web page. 
 Lawrence provided the info to me by email, that Burson was getting the modules from the same plant in China that he gets for his Zero customers. Jack (Burson Audio rep) neither confirmed nor denied this in emails back and forth between him and I a few months back. The transistor matching Burson talks about IS critical to having a balanced L/R output in all respects. I'm sure the matching is being done just not at Burson. They can spec a part and have an OEM produce it off shore, call it their own, puff it up, maybe stretch the truth slightly...happens all the time. The darn thing works and works well, that is all that matters in the end 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## ianp

Don't underestimate your soldering-fu. It looks pretty damn good to me! 

 Heat shrink may look a little better, but electrical tape pretty much does the same job and you can more easily remove should you have to. I'd assume that there is enough room to add some standoffs on the PCBs to lift them off the floor of the case?

 Thanks


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I finished it. It wasn't that hard considering that this was my first real soldering job. With that said I will probably order a couple more opamp bases and make another one. I had the basic skill of soldering down but I didn't truly "get it" until I was halfway through making this adapter. So in couple of days I will make a stronger, faster, prettier one lol and maybe get some rubber shrink instead of using bootleg electrical tape. 











_


----------



## ianp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nedman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It would be handy if they or someone made an 100mm male/female extension lead._

 

Capital idea. I wonder if Lawrence could offer such things?


----------



## ianp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't get... which benefits a power cable brings to zero !?_

 

DIY power cables. One of those 'vodoo' areas of improvement. To my mind it is just about using good quality components that ensure you have good connections, shielding and transmission of the AC. Here's an interesting read - Power Cord Shoot-Out: 14 Power Cords Reviewed - SH Forums

 I use the Bob Crump/Asylum cord AC cables - all components bought in bulk and/or eBay - that plug into wiremold  (apparently NAIM recommended) power strips, so I guess I must perceive their to be some value in them!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't get... which benefits a power cable brings to zero !?_

 

I'll be damned If I can explain them D, but I will try
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I just know that a good ( and I don't mean expensive) power cable makes a noticeable difference over the cheap crappy ones that come stock with most gear. Better copper, better shielding, better plugs at both ends.........seems to work. The cable recipe I use (John Risch) is the cheapest you can find that uses good quality mains cable. I think it's Belden 14 gauge, the techflex covers up the writing on the cable and I made these eons ago so I can't be 100 % sure it is Belden (I'm 75% sure 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). I'd like to use 10 gauge on the big power amps but haven't gotten around to it yet. Marinco plug at one end, Shurter IEC at the other.Belden cable in between ...presto good power cable for peanuts (compared to what some people spend on them, it's peanuts).


 Peete.


----------



## P_1

Does anyone notice that when they turn the volume close to 0 on the amp you can only hear the right driver. Its not only me right? If this is the case for others as well I am wondering if the right side is actually louder than the right side at higher volume levels or something.

 Edit:
 Yea I am positive its louder in the right ear than the left ear by adjusting the balance to the left and the right and comparing the volumes. Is anyone else experiencing this?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *P_1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone notice that when they turn the volume close to 0 on the amp you can only hear the right driver. Its not only me right? If this is the case for others as well I am wondering if the right side is actually louder than the right side at higher volume levels or something.

 Edit:
 Yea I am positive its louder in the right ear than the left ear by adjusting the balance to the left and the right and comparing the volumes. Is anyone else experiencing this?_

 

It's the volume pot's tracking. It's a cheap pot. Does it even out after turning it up a little past that spot ? I'll check mine in a minute.

 Yes mine is louder in the right channel than left at very very low volume, but evens out quickly after turning the volume a little higher. 

 There shouldn't be an imbalance at normal listening levels just to clarify.


 Peete.


----------



## P_1

It just sounds like its harder to hear the imbalance at higher listening levels but its there when you shift the balance on some sort of media player. I have tried setting the balance all the way to the left then to the right and the left sounds lower in terms of volume than the right.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *P_1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It just sounds like its harder to hear the imbalance at higher listening levels but its there when you shift the balance on some sort of media player. I have tried setting the balance all the way to the left then to the right and the left sounds lower in terms of volume than the right._

 

Make sure your cable ends are clean and are making good contact with the jack. Is the HP 1/4 in jack seated all the way in on the Zero ? Can you try another set of headphones to rule out cable issues with the current headphones your using ?

 What is entire setup including cabling. I need that info to narrow down options.

 Peete.


----------



## P_1

Its not the headphones I tried the headphones directly from my laptop and its fine.
 My setup is like this:
 laptop -> usb to spdif -> Zero -> ath-w5000 all stock cabling
 As you know the w5000s are low impedence headphones so "normal" listening levels are half way in between 9 o'clock and 6 o'clock for me and at that volume setting I can hear the left and right difference. Right now I am compensating by turning foobars volume as far down as I can put it and turning the knob on the amp as high up as I can.


----------



## ianp

There are a couple of variable resistors - blue boxes with screws in middle of the below image. Anyone traced what they do and if we should measure and adjust them at all?

 Thanks


----------



## P_1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ianp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There are a couple of variable resistors - blue boxes with screws in middle of the below image. Anyone traced what they do and if we should measure and adjust them at all?

 Thanks





_

 

Thats exactly what I was thinking. We would probably need to take the pcb out and measure the resistances using a multimeter and set them equal or even solder on some 1% vishays that would equal whatever the pots are set to.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ianp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There are a couple of variable resistors - blue boxes with screws in middle of the below image. Anyone traced what they do and if we should measure and adjust them at all?

 Thanks





_

 


 I wouldn't touch those at all unless you want to send it back to Lawrence for recalibration or you can do it yourself without issue. Wouldn't replacing the pot with the Alps upgrade version be a better idea ?

 Peete.


----------



## P_1

I am definitely considering replacing the pot with an Alps. But I wish they would have done so in the first place if its a known issue, it wouldn't have added much to the cost. Since I don't think we can buy these pots one at a time we might as well do a group order from digikey for these things.


----------



## ianp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wouldn't touch those at all unless you want to send it back to Lawrence for recalibration or you can do it yourself without issue. Wouldn't replacing the pot with the Alps upgrade version be a better idea ?

 Peete._

 

Just to be clear. I raised this a separate topic and not related to P_1's question.

 The talk about pots reminded me to ask about these. I think anyone with a screwdriver can recalibrate them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 which is why I was wondering if anyone knew if we should measure and/or adjust.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Ok ianp thats cool. My mistake. My apologies for the mix up ! Looks like I need some sleep rather badly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *P_1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am definitely considering replacing the pot with an Alps. But I wish they would have done so in the first place if its a known issue, it wouldn't have added much to the cost. Since I don't think we can buy these pots one at a time we might as well do a group order from digikey for these things._

 

Lawrence sells singles of the pot. 

 Peete.


----------



## Steph86

Hi, I received my Zero DAC today from Lawrence. I ordered the alps volume upgrade and HDAM module. The volume pot was installed for me. I opened the casing to install the HDAM but when in position its too tall for the case to be put back on? there is also a wire out the side of the HDAM (white and black)? what am I supposed to do with this lol


----------



## Oya?

Been enjoying my Zero since earlier today, I think I'm comfortable saying that my first 'proper' (as opposed to portables) amp purchase was a good one. Thanks to this thread and everyone in it for piquing me towards it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Also, I was wondering something; this Zero I ordered was stock, and I didn't buy a pot upgrade from Lawrence. If I ordered one of those Alps pots later, would it be simple enough to install myself? It kinda looks like it just solders into the PCB without any tiny wires etc.

 The pot itself, should I just order one from Lawrence again, or is there a specific type I should look out for on eBay? Sorry for the newbie questions, I've never even soldered anything in my life.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *P_1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone notice that when they turn the volume close to 0 on the amp you can only hear the right driver. Its not only me right? If this is the case for others as well I am wondering if the right side is actually louder than the right side at higher volume levels or something.

 Edit:
 Yea I am positive its louder in the right ear than the left ear by adjusting the balance to the left and the right and comparing the volumes. Is anyone else experiencing this?_

 

Don't worry.... I have the same "problem" here... =~]


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *P_1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am definitely considering replacing the pot with an Alps. But I wish they would have done so in the first place if its a known issue, it wouldn't have added much to the cost. Since I don't think we can buy these pots one at a time we might as well do a group order from digikey for these things._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't worry.... I have the same "problem" here... =~]_

 

Hey guys!

 Back a little ways in the thread, I posted the shots of my ALPS pot upgrade. It got rid of any imbalance I could hear with my Senns. Now, I'm sure any imbalance is easier to hear with lower impedance phones. The ALPS upgrade is easy to do, if you can unsolder the old one and solder in the new one.

 Perhaps those that are not feeling confident could take their Zero and ALPS to a local shop or electronic freak friend, to have them do the swap for them at little cost. It is worth the effort IMHO. So much so, that I ordered a second ALPS and did my second Zero as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Standard pots are like a crap shoot. One over here is mostly fine, one over there is nastier and there are many variants in between. Most work fine at regular listening levels, but a few are going to stink. CLEAN THEM FIRST, to see if this improves the situation any. If not, no need to worry, just upgrade the darn thing. The ALPS Lawrence sells has the 40 count detents, which is nice.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Steph86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, I received my Zero DAC today from Lawrence. I ordered the alps volume upgrade and HDAM module. The volume pot was installed for me. I opened the casing to install the HDAM but when in position its too tall for the case to be put back on? there is also a wire out the side of the HDAM (white and black)? what am I supposed to do with this lol_

 

WOW Steph86, you missed too many posts! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This height issue has been there from the start. I've also made a big point of warning everyone about this issue. I guess you just missed them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Look at the recent pics and you'll see "work arounds" in progress, for this issue. I'm sure more will follow soon. Mine is on the way, so I'm going to have to work out a method of laying the HDAM on it's side too.


----------



## Oya?

Thanks for the info Pench. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think my generic pot isn't doing too bad, there's some volume imbalance at very very low levels. My HD25-1 is really sensitive even with an impedance adapter, so I listen at just under the 9 o'clock.

 Is the RK27117 the type that you guys use? It's the first thing that pops up when I type Alps into eBay search, and looks to be the right size and all.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys!

 Back a little ways in the thread, I posted the shots of my ALPS pot upgrade. It got rid of any imbalance I could hear with my Senns. Now, I'm sure any imbalance is easier to hear with lower impedance phones. The ALPS upgrade is easy to do, if you can unsolder the old one and solder in the new one.

 Perhaps those that are not feeling confident could take their Zero and ALPS to a local shop or electronic freak friend, to have them do the swap for them at little cost. It is worth the effort IMHO. So much so, that I ordered a second ALPS and did my second Zero as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Standard pots are like a crap shoot. One over here is mostly fine, one over there is nastier and there are many variants in between. Most work fine at regular listening levels, but a few are going to stink. CLEAN THEM FIRST, to see if this improves the situation any. If not, no need to worry, just upgrade the darn thing. The ALPS Lawrence sells has the 40 count detents, which is nice. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oya?* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the info Pench. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think my generic pot isn't doing too bad, there's some volume imbalance at very very low levels. My HD25-1 is really sensitive even with an impedance adapter, so I listen at just under the 9 o'clock.

 Is the RK27117 the type that you guys use? It's the first thing that pops up when I type Alps into eBay search, and looks to be the right size and all._

 

Well, the replacement I bought from Lawrence, is a 100K pot and it is very small, almost the exact same size as the standard pot. The pins on the underside were the exact same layout as the standard pot's. This one here on eBay: ALPS 100K STEREO AUDIO AMPLIFIER VOLUME CONTROL POT! - eBay (item 120246587915 end time Jul-12-08 09:01:42 PDT) looks to be the same, but I have a feeling the size of the housing will prevent it's use. When the pot is in position, there is very little room next to it, where some caps are located. The replacement from Lawrence "just fits" into this space. The square ones would never fit, I'm very certain of this.

 Here are the pics of my replacement in progress: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...ml#post4226887 which will show the clearances better.


----------



## Oya?

Thank you very much for the heads-up, and the mini-guide. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That really does look like a really tight fit. I guess if I was getting one I'd better pick up one off Lawrence. Maybe when I actually get a soldering iron. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, the replacement I bought from Lawrence, is a 100K pot and it is very small, almost the exact same size as the standard pot. The pins on the underside were the exact same layout as the standard pot's. This one here on eBay: ALPS 100K STEREO AUDIO AMPLIFIER VOLUME CONTROL POT! - eBay (item 120246587915 end time Jul-12-08 09:01:42 PDT) looks to be the same, but I have a feeling the size of the housing will prevent it's use. When the pot is in position, there is very little room next to it, where some caps are located. The replacement from Lawrence "just fits" into this space. The square ones would never fit, I'm very certain of this.

 Here are the pics of my replacement in progress: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...ml#post4226887 which will show the clearances better. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## Steph86

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WOW Steph86, you missed too many posts! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This height issue has been there from the start. I've also made a big point of warning everyone about this issue. I guess you just missed them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Look at the recent pics and you'll see "work arounds" in progress, for this issue. I'm sure more will follow soon. Mine is on the way, so I'm going to have to work out a method of laying the HDAM on it's side too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I managed to make an extension cable (without soldering) for the HDAM and have put it on its side in between the headamp and dac board. But I still don't know what to do with the black and white cable which comes out the side (not one attached to the pin) and its loose? Is it some sort of earth wire, or was it soldered to the HDAM and may have come loose in transit?

 Thanks
 Steph


----------



## fault151

Wow i just looked at this thread in a long time and noticed ianp has installed a hdam in the zero dac, hows it sound? I was very tempted to do this on min a while a go but i bought another amp with the money instead. Good work!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow i just looked at this thread in a long time and noticed ianp has installed a hdam in the zero dac, hows it sound? I was very tempted to do this on min a while a go but i bought another amp with the money instead. Good work!_

 

PP has a full review of the HDAM vs OPA627BP's, just a little ways back in the thread, two parts, about two weeks apart. Very good read!


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, the replacement I bought from Lawrence, is a 100K pot and it is very small, almost the exact same size as the standard pot. The pins on the underside were the exact same layout as the standard pot's. This one here on eBay: ALPS 100K STEREO AUDIO AMPLIFIER VOLUME CONTROL POT! - eBay (item 120246587915 end time Jul-12-08 09:01:42 PDT) looks to be the same, but I have a feeling the size of the housing will prevent it's use. When the pot is in position, there is very little room next to it, where some caps are located. The replacement from Lawrence "just fits" into this space. The square ones would never fit, I'm very certain of this.

 Here are the pics of my replacement in progress: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...ml#post4226887 which will show the clearances better. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It looks just like the Alps Blue slotted shaft version without the plastic and metal encasing. Probably good ol' Lawrence removed it for you. One can do the same with the more available unslotted version I guess...

 So guys, go ahead and find the most effective, non destructive and elegant way to to "undress" the Alps RK27 (or else, ask Lawrence to share his experience with us).

 Looking forward to see the first pictures of the sledgehammered pots!!!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It looks just like the Alps Blue slotted shaft version without the plastic and metal encasing. Probably good ol' Lawrence removed it for you. Hope you didn't pay that much for the mod...




_

 

Even though I haven't seen one of the blue ones with it's plastic housing removed, they don't look close at all. Look at the metal face on both and compare them. Even the little tab that has to be clipped off, isn't in the same place.

 Just so you know, he was selling them for $10 at the time, so not much considering it was a "tested" pot and you could swap them without the worry about space remaining.


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Even though I haven't seen one of the blue ones with it's plastic housing removed, they don't look close at all. Look at the metal face on both and compare them. Even the little tab that has to be clipped off, isn't in the same place.

 Just so you know, he was selling them for $10 at the time, so not much considering it was a "tested" pot and you could swap them without the worry about space remaining. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

OK, but the internal size should be the same. In case someone has a 100K blue at hand, why not trying this out?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

And the HDAM flood gates have opened 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Took a while to reach critical mass but now were cooking 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The black & white wire is an extra ground, no need to use it as I was told by Lawrence. I just put a little shrink rap on mine after doubling up the wire. Looks like a tail...now just to add some ears, eyes, a nose and a hat and I'm all set 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Please post HDAM impressions....I'm curious to read what others hear with it over regular opamps.


 Peete.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK, but the internal size should be the same. In case someone has a 100K blue at hand, why not trying this out?_

 

Sure, if someone has one already, it would be worth checking into (I think). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The clearance bit is probably the only worry, the pins look to be in the right place. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think the housing unscrews, right?


----------



## tedSmith123

Sorry newbie question here. Just got the Zero DAC and wanted to start playing with mod. When you all said OPA627 + LT1364, do you all mean the OPA627 on the brown dog adapter on the large board and the LT1364 for the smaller board ? I've opened up the DAC and the smaller board has 2 chips. So I need two LT1364 to this mod, or just one chip ? If I only need one chip, which chip do I change ? I've attached a picture of the smaller board and circled the two chips in yellow ...


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tedSmith123* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry newbie question here. Just got the Zero DAC and wanted to start playing with mod. When you all said OPA627 + LT1364, do you all mean the OPA627 on the brown dog adapter on the large board and the LT1364 for the smaller board ? I've opened up the DAC and the smaller board has 2 chips. So I need two LT1364 to this mod, or just one chip ? If I only need one chip, which chip do I change ? I've attached a picture of the smaller board and circled the two chips in yellow ...


_

 

You've got it right. You need two OPA627 + BD adapter on the big dac board, and two LT1364 for the small amp board (one in each of your yellow rings).


----------



## Emanuel

Hi!
 I was going to ask a strange question maybe, when I saw "Henmyr" desktop configuration, that is very similar to what I'm planning to start up. 
 Maybe you can help me!
 I'm also a creative user, but with the old audigy1..what Im asking is if the digital output is always active, as the analogic output, in every audio situation, like games, video and audio player, sound processing software (asio vst ecc..). That could be very fine for me, using an old sound card for the drivers, but with "upgraded" sound to enjoy music better. Hope this is possible. Thk!


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Emanuel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi!
 I was going to ask a strange question maybe, when I saw "Henmyr" desktop configuration, that is very similar to what I'm planning to start up. 
 Maybe you can help me!
 I'm also a creative user, but with the old audigy1..what Im asking is if the digital output is always active, as the analogic output, in every audio situation, like games, video and audio player, sound processing software (asio vst ecc..). That could be very fine for me, using an old sound card for the drivers, but with "upgraded" sound to enjoy music better. Hope this is possible. Thk!_

 

The optical digital output of the Xfi can be used for music, movies and games. 

 I haven't tried EAX while using optical out, but I did search on google, and it doesn't seem like EAX works for optical out, at least not with Xfi, and Audigy is probably the same. If you want to use EAX you will probably have to use the analog outs.

 The Xfi asio works perfectly now in Windows Vista with latest Foobar2k and latest drivers (it didn't work perfectly with earlier versions of foobar2k and Vista, but windows XP had no problems with it).


----------



## Emanuel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The optical digital output of the Xfi can be used for music, movies and games. 

 I haven't tried EAX while using optical out, but I did search on google, and it doesn't seem like EAX works for optical out, at least not with Xfi, and Audigy is probably the same. If you want to use EAX you will probably have to use the analog outs.

 The Xfi asio works perfectly now in Windows Vista with latest Foobar2k and latest drivers (it didn't work perfectly with earlier versions of foobar2k and Vista, but windows XP had no problems with it)._

 

Thk for the answer!! That's very good..what in particular concern me is if I can get digital output from a processed sound, like this chain "analog line-in(guitar)--->vst software with asio driver(digitalization)--->digital output" Probably that its not a frequent topic, and maybe you can't answer me specifically, but thanks anyway. I'm planning to see if even the coaxial spdif output works, and someone says that works better. (i believe however that they speak of very subtle or inaudible differences)


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Emanuel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thk for the answer!! That's very good..what in particular concern me is if I can get digital output from a processed sound, like this chain "analog line-in(guitar)--->vst software with asio driver(digitalization)--->digital output" Probably that its not a frequent topic, and maybe you can't answer me specifically, but thanks anyway. I'm planning to see if even the coaxial spdif output works, and someone says that works better. (i believe however that they speak of very subtle or inaudible differences)_

 

Your post made me go look and see what is and what isn't working on my X-Fi Xtreme Music card, when using Optical out. The only thing that doesn't work is the CMSS-3D surround. EAX and the others work just fine.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your post made me go look and see what is and what isn't working on my X-Fi Xtreme Music card, when using Optical out. The only thing that doesn't work is the CMSS-3D surround. EAX and the others work just fine. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Did you try EAX in games? If you did and it worked it's great news.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you try EAX in games? If you did and it worked it's great news._

 

Ow, nope. Just the effects with the player. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't have any games loaded right now, maybe someone else can check it out??


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Isn't bit perfect playback impossible with a Audigy 1 ? I seem to recall the EMU chip on it samples everything up to 48 khz. I could be wrong about that...it's been a while since I've had a creative card. I know the new X-FI series chip does not do that. My current SC is an Auzen Prelude which uses the X-Fi chip......it's fine as a transport to the Zero, although I prefer a CDP SQ wise feeding the DAC.


 Peete.


----------



## Enthusia

Wait the current x-fi's do not resample to 48hz? I always thought they did...

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/ex...50/index2.html

 I found a thread pertaining to this question, at the bottom, MikeW says:

  Quote:


 Alot of "professional" gamers use headphones actually, almost exclusively for Counterstrike. I prefer my headphones for games over my speakers, (Klipsch Promedia 5.1). Yes, the speakers are better at positioning, but the subtle details definatly come though better on the phones, and the headphone+amp completly dwarfs these speakers, so it's not really a fair comparison. 

 I've said it before, and i'll repeat, creative gets alot of flac for the 48hz resampling, but it's required for the sound card to function properly. You can't mix 22 khz, and 44.1 khz, and 48 khz, and 96 khz audio all at the same time and apply effects to it, unfortunatly many games use one or a mix of all of the above frequencies at the same time for their sound effects. Therefore Audigy/x-fi resamples everything to 48 khz. It's been that way for a long time, and there's good reason for it, people need to understand that Creative cards are a gaming card first, and a music card second and not expect audiophile performance out of them. The X-fi is creatives attempt to fix these shortcomings, basically with raw performance, the resampler in x-fi is superb, i've tested it myself and it's noticebly better then Foobar's software resampler. Udial plays back fine for me, as long as I don't go though my amp, which is tube based, so it's gonna muck that file up no matter what, I also take udial results with a grain of salt, I guess it can be usefull, but it's easy to obsess over. 
 

Not sure if it's the truth, but it does make sense.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Enthusia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wait the current x-fi's do not resample to 48hz? I always thought they did...

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/ex...50/index2.html

 I found a thread pertaining to this question, at the bottom, MikeW says:



 Not sure if it's the truth, but it does make sense._

 

I'm not sure anyone is, totally.

 There is a difference on how X-Fi handles gaming audio and stereo audio output to a DAC. Example: I'm using Vista with X-Fi optical out to my #1 Zero. If I manually set the freq to 44.1 and leave it there, WAV files sound fantastic. If I manually change it to 48 and leave it there, the WAVs will sound OK, but different enough to notice and just different enough to dislike, a little. So, I leave mine set at 44.1 and have this set as the default.

 Gaming is a whole nother matter. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm fairly certain most have their X-Fi's set to be controlled by the game, and in the game, they specify whether they want surround or EAX and those things. If the game pushes a 44.1 sound file, the X-Fi will resample it to 48, for compatibility reasons I believe. This matches somewhat with what that fella was saying in the quote you gave.

 I don't know if this helps or not, but it is the extent of my understanding on this topic, so far.


----------



## ccschua

Has anyone tried replacing the stock power cord with single crystal copper cable like acoustics zen el nino or harmonic technology AC10 power cord, etc. Will the power cord give obvious difference in terms of smoother vocal and wider soundstage ?


----------



## sum1

I'm just wondering who will support the warranty of this dac/amp if you have a problem with it? Is Tianyun(Is this the manufacturer?) taking care of the warranty or after sales service?


----------



## Citizen86

In regards to the X-Fi conversation, I am throwing out a guess here, but I had one for a while, the Xtremegamer, and I believe that it should work fine as a transport for music. There was a reason why it had 3 different modes you could set it to: movies, music creation, and gaming. I believe Movies and music creation modes allowed bit-perfect optical out, while gaming mode I don't think did.

 Even music would sound different in gaming mode and the other 2 modes, so I would assume that it was actually pretty important to have your card set to the right mode for what you were doing. But I'm pretty sure that you could have optical out and have it set to bit-perfect playback, just maybe not in gaming mode.


----------



## donjiva

Finally got my zero [the upgraded version with opa627], only 5 days to Seattle 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Still in burning-in period but I'm loving the sound!
 Currently I hooked it with optical straight from motherboard built-in realtek soundcard to zero. 

 Got few questions :
 1.when playing flac song from foobar for the best quality, should I use the resampler? If so what khz should i use?
 2.what output data format should i use? 24bit or 16bit with dithering?
 3.Will upgrading my optical cable will make the sound better? 
 4.the seller give me an optical-usb adapter. should I use this or connect it straight with optical?

 Thanks!


----------



## Steph86

I seem to have a very big broblem with hum. All of a sudden when I turn the DAC on I just get an unbearable hum which does not go away. If I turn the volume up the hum just gets louder. I opened up the case to see if it was something to do with the way I had installed th HDAM, but even after I replaced the HDAM back to the stock opamp the hum was still there. The strange thing is when I touch the coax connector at the back with my finger the hum gets quieter and then when I touch the screw which holds the coax connector it gets even quieter. and if I use all five fingers to touch all screws and coax at the back then the hum is practically gone. 

 Has anyone had this problem? Does anyone know what it is? I hope my zero is not broken already only had it a few days


----------



## Shlonglor

Sounds like it could be a grounding issue. Try changing the power cable/socket? Just a guess.


----------



## Steph86

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shlonglor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sounds like it could be a grounding issue. Try changing the power cable/socket? Just a guess._

 


 I have changed the cables but it is still there, to change the socket I think I will have to solder a new one.


----------



## P_1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Steph86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have changed the cables but it is still there, to change the socket I think I will have to solder a new one._

 

Try screwing in the screws for the coax port tighter.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Check the coax jacks solder points on the underside of the pcb. Another spot to check is the pot ground wire (while your at it).

 Peete.


----------



## Penchum

Also check to make sure you have the Zero plugged into the same outlet on the wall, as the rest of your audio equipment.


----------



## Steph86

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Check the coax jacks solder points points on the underside of the pcb. Another spot to check is the pot ground wire (while your at it).

 Peete._

 

All my audio equipment is plugged into a Belkin surge protector.

 Where abouts is the pot ground wire?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Steph86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All my audio equipment is plugged into a Belkin surge protector.

 Where abouts is the pot ground wire?_

 

It's a small wire that is soldered onto the side of the pot shell casing. Worth checking out if your looking at ground connections. Have you checked the coax in jack's solder points on the main pcb to see if one has come loose ? A quick reheat of the tabs solder points will cure a cold solder joint. Do you have a soldering iron or access to one ?

 Peete.


----------



## Steph86

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's a small wire that is soldered onto the side of the pot shell casing. Worth checking out if your looking at ground connections. Have you checked the coax in jack's solder points on the main pcb to see if one has come loose ? A quick reheat of the tabs solder points will cure a cold solder joint. Do you have a soldering iron or access to one ?

 Peete._

 


 When you say pot casing do you mean volume pot? Yeah I have a soldering iron but are the solder points to the coax on the underside of the pcb, because I don't want to unscrew and disconnect everything?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Yep the volume pot. Sorry to say but you'll have to pull the PCB to check the coax solder points, there is no other way around it. After trying what P 1 suggested I'd check what I suggested. Just be careful handling the connectors and such. Practice safe procedures. Ground yourself with wrist strap if you have one or touch metal casing before touching any components on the PCB. Be very careful pulling connectors. Just a few tips that I can think of. Don't worry it's a dead easy thing to do.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Who all has an HDAM module now ? I know cipher,myself,Steph and soon Penchum will be owners/users....anyone else took the plunge ?

 Don't forget to post impressions of it please. 


 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Steph86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All my audio equipment is plugged into a Belkin surge protector.

 Where abouts is the pot ground wire?_

 

This may sound whacked but try the Zero plugged directly into the wall receptacle bypassing the Belkin. Just trying to cover all bases and rule out the easy stuff 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Steph86

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This may sound whacked but try the Zero plugged directly into the wall receptacle bypassing the Belkin. Just trying to cover all bases and rule out the easy stuff 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 


 Well I closed the case, tilt the dac upside down and then plugged everything back in and turned it on again and the hum seems to have gone. So I am not going to open it anymore just in case the hum starts again. 

 Now all I have to do is get asio to work properly. I have done everything correctly as it says in the foobar and asio forums, but I don't know if it is working or not? I can have the buffer size on the asio setting down to 64 and I still don't get any crackling. But what I do get is a very small crackle eveytime I start a new track. When I am in windows and click the asio offline settings the marker is green(enabled) but when I start foobar play a song and then re-load the offline setting its crossed out (disabled).

 Is anyone else having this problem?

 Thanks
 Steph

 Ps, the HDAM module is sounding great at the moment. I did not even listen to the stock opamp because I ordered the opa627au which came already installed. So I listened to that for a day or so (without asio) then I fabricated my own interconnect for the HDAM and am using that now. It is fairly hard for me to give an opinion because I did not spend much time with either of the last two opamps and one was without using asio. But I can safely say the HDAM Module has alot more body and sounds better. After more listening and burn in I will be able to give a better opinion.


----------



## Shlonglor

Got my Zero. Woohoo!

 Plugged it in (though optical for now, till I get a proper digital RCA cable) and everything works well. A couple of issues:

 1) It clicks randomly when on and playing. What the hey? A mechanical click that originates from within the box... I hope this doesn't foreshadow its impending death.

 2) When no sound it playing, when I change the volume, I hear some noise/cracks. Is this normal? It seems to go away when it's playing.

 Other than that, pure bliss! I'm really enjoying it so far (the hour+ that it's been on). Zero + Denon AH-D2000 = 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A few other questions. I currently have the OPA627 which Lawrence installed for me in the DAC section and the default one in the amp section.

 1) Should I bother with the default opamp at all or switch to the LT1364s I got as free samples when I gather the courage to open it up?

 2) Is there a reason to shut it down when it's not being used (except for the super LEDs)?

 3) I have a resistance increasing thingy that I got with my Super.Fis. Will using them with my Denons and increasing the power on the Zero provide any benefits?

 4) How do I know when it's too loud and is going to damage my hearing permanently?


----------



## Penchum

I thought I'd heard a tweetie bird.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shlonglor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got my Zero. Woohoo!

 Plugged it in (though optical for now, till I get a proper digital RCA cable) and everything works well. A couple of issues:

 1) It clicks randomly when on and playing. What the hey? A mechanical click that originates from within the box... I hope this doesn't foreshadow its impending death.

 2) When no sound it playing, when I change the volume, I hear some noise/cracks. Is this normal? It seems to go away when it's playing.

 Other than that, pure bliss! I'm really enjoying it so far (the hour+ that it's been on). Zero + Denon AH-D2000 = 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 A few other questions. I currently have the OPA627 which Lawrence installed for me in the DAC section and the default one in the amp section.

 1) Should I bother with the default opamp at all or switch to the LT1364s I got as free samples when I gather the courage to open it up?

 2) Is there a reason to shut it down when it's not being used (except for the super LEDs)?

 3) I have a resistance increasing thingy that I got with my Super.Fis. Will using them with my Denons and increasing the power on the Zero provide any benefits?

 4) How do I know when it's too loud and is going to damage my hearing permanently? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The clicking is normal, as long as it's not happening during a track you are playing.

 The stock volume pot may be dirty. Use Deoxit or another tuner/electronics cleaner to flush out the volume pot.

 I would recommend switching the headphone amp Opamps to the LT1364s, so you can listen that way too! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They are much better than the stock ones.

 If you have no noise issues with the Denon's, I would leave out the impedance adapter.

 When you first start listening to your music, set the volume purposefully lower than normal. In a matter of minutes, you'll notice it seems louder than when you started. At this point, increase the volume to a nice comfort level and you should be ok. If you think it is too loud, it is. Always try to caution on the side of less, is more.


----------



## richierich

Just received my Zero DAC as well, in the process of burning in/enjoying music.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Steph86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ps, the HDAM module is sounding great at the moment. I did not even listen to the stock opamp because I ordered the opa627au which came already installed. So I listened to that for a day or so (without asio) then I fabricated my own interconnect for the HDAM and am using that now. It is fairly hard for me to give an opinion because I did not spend much time with either of the last two opamps and one was without using asio. But I can safely say the HDAM Module has alot more body and sounds better. After more listening and burn in I will be able to give a better opinion._

 

My experience with the HDAM has been similar. I never used the stock opamps. I ordered the LT1358 and LT1364 for the DAC section and I actually received them before my zero arrived. I also got the LT1469 for the amp section but I haven't tried it in the DAC section. I was planning on getting the opa627 but I decided to get the HDAM instead.

 The HDAM simply blows my other opamps out of the water. Whenever I switch back to the 1358 or 1364 the sound is still clear but it is compressed and less dynamic. The HDAM just opens everything up and gives your music more space so to speak and the result is that you can now hear sounds that were originally too compressed with regular opamps.

 Just to temper my enthusiasm for the HDAM a little bit I wholeheartedly agree with Peete that it is not the "second coming" so to speak. However anyone who hears it will notice a substantial difference and will be hard pressed to back to regular opamps.


----------



## richierich

I opened up my Zero DAC because I ordered it with the upgraded OP627A. What does it look like? Can you guys take a picture of yours? Mine looks like this I found in google:


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My experience with the HDAM has been similar. I never used the stock opamps. I ordered the LT1358 and LT1364 for the DAC section and I actually received them before my zero arrived. I also got the LT1469 for the amp section but I haven't tried it in the DAC section. I was planning on getting the opa627 but I decided to get the HDAM instead.

 The HDAM simply blows my other opamps out of the water. Whenever I switch back to the 1358 or 1364 the sound is still clear but it is compressed and less dynamic. The HDAM just opens everything up and gives your music more space so to speak and the result is that you can now hear sounds that were originally too compressed with regular opamps.

 Just to temper my enthusiasm for the HDAM a little bit I wholeheartedly agree with Peete that it is not the "second coming" so to speak. However anyone who hears it will notice a substantial difference and will be hard pressed to back to regular opamps._

 

I couldn't agree more cipher. Well said !!

 Add a good quality 1uf 50V+ PIO foil cap across pins 4 & 8 on the HDAM for yet another boost to dynamics,transient speeds and top end clarity. I have 135 hours so far on the PIO/HDAM tweak 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's a cheap & worthwhile tweak for sure. Burson Audio page is where the idea came from. BTW I used a K42Y-2 1.0 uf 160V Russian mil spec PIO for the cap. Loads of them on eBay. Outstanding SQ and price !!

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought I'd heard a tweetie bird._

 

The hovercraft is full of eels 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *richierich* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I opened up my Zero DAC because I ordered it with the upgraded OP627A. What does it look like? Can you guys take a picture of yours? Mine looks like this I found in google:




_

 


 Those are fine. Just in a smaller format called SMD (surface mount device) as opposed to the usual DIP (dual inline package). SMD makes for a smaller footprint in the DAC section which is always welcome.

 Peete.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *richierich* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I opened up my Zero DAC because I ordered it with the upgraded OP627A. What does it look like? Can you guys take a picture of yours? Mine looks like this I found in google:




_

 

Yep! Those are the right ones!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My second set looks just like them.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The hovercraft is full of eels 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

and glowing!!


----------



## DSET

I’m very new to head-fi audio
 I know very little
 Couple years ago I bought my computer came with an audigy 2 Zs Platnium so there is optical and coax out

 I have a pair of hd600s which I bought from a generous member on the forum,(not sure if he wants me to name him but regardless if he needs Buy sell trade feedback i can provide it when the time comes) and am looking to make the most of em but i don’t want to spend more than a 100 roughly on a headphone amp- the less the better actually

 So I’m thinking the Zero is the best amp for my money right now
 But for me if there’s something that does analog and it sounds better than the zero I can live without the optical

 Which brings me to a question? Analog 1\4th vs. optical\coax?
 Which is better and is it’s allot better? or hardly noticeable?
 Music quality from my pc is my main concern audio from games and movies wont make a dramatic difference in optical vs. analog on a Headphone IMO

 Optical is a bonus because I can do stright connection from my ps3 when Im watching a movie or gaming and then analog\optical when im listening to music on my pc

 And if the zero is what I think it is im sure it should be fine
 butwhats the difference between the 80$ vs 100 vs 120

 one says it comes with headfi(no clue what it is) one says it comes with usb link for what is that audio output into you’re computer or is it an input from youre computer i dont get it

 thanks for the hlep


----------



## richierich

Without a good amp your HD600s aren't getting the power they need to shine. If you don't want to spend much you should at least try to save up for a decent amp.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DSET* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I’m very new to head-fi audio
 I know very little
 Couple years ago I bought my computer came with an audigy 2 Zs Platnium so there is optical and coax out

 I have a pair of hd600s which I bought from a generous member on the forum,(not sure if he wants me to name him but regardless if he needs Buy sell trade feedback i can provide it when the time comes) and am looking to make the most of em but i don’t want to spend more than a 100 roughly on a headphone amp- the less the better actually

 So I’m thinking the Zero is the best amp for my money right now
 But for me if there’s something that does analog and it sounds better than the zero I can live without the optical

 Which brings me to a question? Analog 1\4th vs. optical\coax?
 Which is better and is it’s allot better? or hardly noticeable?
 Music quality from my pc is my main concern audio from games and movies wont make a dramatic difference in optical vs. analog on a Headphone IMO

 Optical is a bonus because I can do stright connection from my ps3 when Im watching a movie or gaming and then analog\optical when im listening to music on my pc

 And if the zero is what I think it is im sure it should be fine
 butwhats the difference between the 80$ vs 100 vs 120

 one says it comes with headfi(no clue what it is) one says it comes with usb link for what is that audio output into you’re computer or is it an input from youre computer i dont get it

 thanks for the hlep_

 

I think the Zero would be a good choice to start with. Using Optical out of your sound card, to the Zero, and using the Zero's built-in headphone amp for your HD-600's, will give you sound quality benefits right away. This will allow you time to save up for a dedicated headphone amp (tube or SS) that you can drive with the Zero's DAC outputs, later.

 If you are wondering why you should use the optical output right now, it is very simple. The Zero's DAC is much better than the DAC in your sound card. The Zero Lawrence is selling has the "most" recommended Opamps upgrades already built-in, so you don't have to figure out which Opamp changes to make. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Zero with the better Opamps will work excellent with your HD-600's. Both of my Zero's have worked out great with my HD-600's.


----------



## darkswordsman17

Yeah, the Zero should provide a very nice improvement. The DAC should easily best both the A2ZS and internal PS3 one. Use coaxial out of your sound card and optical out of the PS3 so that you don't have to switch connectors (assuming you have your PC and PS3 near each other).


----------



## davve

Hi,

 what is HDAM? where do i buy it? how do i install it?
 wich capacitors can i upgrade on the zero board and wich should i buy?


 thanks


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,

 what is HDAM? where do i buy it? how do i install it?
 wich capacitors can i upgrade on the zero board and wich should i buy?


 thanks_

 

The HDAm is an option when you order the Zero from Lawrence. If you have a Zero then Lawrence will sell you the HDAM. HDAM is a discrete dual channel amplifier that takes the place of regular opamps in the Zero's DAC section. The drawbacks to it are a)price 80.00 US plus shipping b) you need to make lead extensions from the HDAM to relocate it if you want to close the stock top cover. I leave my cover off for now, forgoing the lead extensions. For some this is a non starter. For others it's a DIY project 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Don't worry about the cap, it's for the HDAM only. The page for that mod is on Burson Audio web site under Burson opamp 101. Heres the link

Burson discrete Opamp 101

 The Burson module is the exact same module sold by Lawrence (Zero).

 Peete.


----------



## davve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The HDAm is an option when you order the Zero from Lawrence. If you have a Zero then Lawrence will sell you the HDAM. HDAM is a discrete dual channel amplifier that takes the place of regular opamps in the Zero's DAC section. The drawbacks to it are a)price 80.00 US plus shipping b) you need to make lead extensions from the HDAM to relocate it if you want to close the stock top cover. I leave my cover off for now, forgoing the lead extensions. For some this is a non starter. For others it's a DIY project 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Don't worry about the cap, it's for the HDAM only. The page for that mod is on Burson Audio web site under Burson opamp 101. Heres the link

Burson discrete Opamp 101

 The Burson module is the exact same module sold by Lawrence (Zero).

 Peete._

 



 Thanks peete.

 Is it worth 80$?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks peete.

 Is it worth 80$?_

 

IMO yes. Your ears will have to decide that ultimately though. Read the (not so) mini review of it (page locations in my sig). 

 Peete.


----------



## davve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IMO yes. Your ears will have to decide that ultimately though. Read the (not so) mini review of it (page locations in my sig). 

 Peete._

 



 how does the HDAM stand up when it comes to mp3's.


----------



## DSET

k Im confused
 -is this zero an actual headphone amp?
 -im a flaming noob alright lol
 what is a DAC- digital acess controller?- which does what?

 is the zero both ?

 I dont plan on saving up for anything else
 i can stretch my budget from somehwer between 100-200 if its good enough what is the best solution to drive my hd600?

 and I take it optical is just as good or better than analog for pc audio?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DSET* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_k Im confused
 -is this zero an actual headphone amp?
 -im a flaming noob alright lol
 what is a DAC- digital acess controller?- which does what?

 is the zero both ?

 I dont plan on saving up for anything else
 i can stretch my budget from somehwer between 100-200 if its good enough what is the best solution to drive my hd600?

 and I take it optical is just as good or better than analog for pc audio?

 if theres something at bestbuy that can be reccomended i get crazy discount on sound products_

 

It's a DAC/Headphone amp/analog preamp.

 DAC meaning Digital to Analog Converter, hence DAC.

 It's a versatile box.

 Takes digital out from CDP, computer sound card,DVD player.. or anything that has a digital output via Toslink (optical) or coaxial (single 75 ohm RCA cable) converts it to L/R channel analog signals. The head phone amp section of the Zero is located near the 1/4 inch jack on the front and is separate from the main DAC pcb. The Zero can be set to output fixed line level (analog output) or variable output using the front panel volume control.

 Look it up on eBay and read all about it.

 It's SQ is quite good and it now comes standard with excellent opamps (don't ask 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) so just plug in your source (CDP/DVD/Computer SC) to the dig in jack on the back, plug in the phones on the font panel, adjust volume to taste...sit back and relax 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## SilverRubicon

Who is Lawrence that I see mentioned in all of the Zero DAC threads? Does he have a price list and/or web site that discusses his mods for the Zero DAC? An account on the electronic bay?

 I've searched but am having a hard time finding the guy. A 435 page thread is a little imposing.


----------



## Nedman

Lawrence is a seller on ebay, who goes by the name of "biglawhk " who most of the people in this thread have purchased this DAC from. Lawrence also has the advantage that he is fully converse with all the extras spoken about in this thread, for the Zero DAC [upgraded op-amps, HDAM, etc]. And has also been very helpful, if anyone has had any problems.

 There are also other sellers of this DAC on ebay. [I purchased mine off " shenzhen Audio store "]. To have a look at all of them just put "Zero DAC" in ebays search engine, and click worldwide.


----------



## DSET

okay thanks for all the help guys

 but before I buy the zero amp

 is there any amp that produces better SQ for the money
 like an amp without a DAC


----------



## Nomean

Penchum, I've basically copied your setup from the first review (627s, little dot mk4, hd650s) and it sounds wonderful. Thanks for the great review. 

 DSET, there's a lot more to it than that. There are better amps, but if your source is poor the amp will amplify that. The best, most expensive amp out there won't make analog sound from a poorly made and unshielded onboard soundcard sound good. If that is in fact what you are using for a source, and you have a digital output, the zero would be perfect. I used the zero with my 650s for a while before I got the little dot amp and it worked fine.


----------



## Kake

Have had my Zero now for 6 months or so, for most I'm very pleased with the unit, although with one exception. Sometimes the sound seems to go out of "phase"/inverted (hard to explain,,)It's not all the time and it’s not every time I notice the "problem" before I touch the volume knob and the sound goes in to "phase" again.. Anny one else who has experienced the same problem? What is the most likely error?

 The problem exists in both head Amp and preamp/dac out.


----------



## ccschua

Has anyone tried the AD825 on the DAC section? what is the characteristics of AD825 (without output coupling cap, blackgate)

 Since AD825 is JFET, will it perform better than DY2000 in the DAC section in terms of vocal with good treble and bass extension?


----------



## ccschua

sorry the post is repeated


----------



## Shlonglor

Switched from the USB/Optical thingy to digital RCA and I can't hear any discernible difference. Not that I expected any, especially with all the changes I've brought upon myself recently and the fact that I replaced the opamp with the LT1364 just a day before. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh well. I'm happy.


----------



## P_1

I've been in communication with Lawrence and it seems that he does not have the Alps pot anymore. Penchum do you know of any other source or if u have a spare that I can buy off you?


----------



## Pidgeon

Hehe, I've to post my questions, too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




:

 I am starting with nothing, and this is a setup I've thought of:

 Lossless music = Free!
 +
 foobar2000/ASIO = Free!
 +
 ESI Juli@ = 212 $ (+10 $)
 +
 Coaxial Cable = 20 $
 +
 Zero DAC = 110 $ (+50 $)
 +
 HDAM = 80 $ (included in Zero)
 +
 Alps Volume Pot = 20 $ (included in Zero)
 +
 Little Dot MK-V = 300 $ (+50 $)
 +
 Sennheiser HD-650 = 390 $ (+10 $)
 =
 1252 $ = 797 € --> Good quality/price ratio?

 I listen to classical music (movie scores etc.), and I'll use a DAW to compose music (this is why I'll buy the Juli@).
 Someone suggested me the HD600 (they are neutral), someone other the HD650 (good extension, mid, bass, treble etc., but tends to be "dark").

 Do you think the HD650 could do a good job with this setup, or better the HD600?

 I ask this because I've had no chance to listen to headphones like AKG, Sennheiser and so on.

 Do you think, in general, that my setup could worth the money?

 If you need more informations, I'll be happy to give them!


----------



## Goit

Is this thing neutral or color the sound?


----------



## P_1

Ok it seems that he just got some more alps in stock. 
 I would say that the sound depends on your opamp choices. The opa627's colors the sound by making it "warmer". If you want complete neutrality you should use the LME49720, which I use in the amp, while using the opa627's in the DAC.


----------



## davve

just ordered the HDAM, 80$ shipped.


----------



## DSET

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nomean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Penchum, I've basically copied your setup from the first review (627s, little dot mk4, hd650s) and it sounds wonderful. Thanks for the great review. 

 DSET, there's a lot more to it than that. There are better amps, but if your source is poor the amp will amplify that. The best, most expensive amp out there won't make analog sound from a poorly made and unshielded onboard soundcard sound good. If that is in fact what you are using for a source, and you have a digital output, the zero would be perfect. I used the zero with my 650s for a while before I got the little dot amp and it worked fine._

 

okay just to clarify
 so the reason i shouldnt buy a little dot amp(that performs better than the zero right?)
 is because my sound card isnt up to par and i need a DAC to get the best out of my A2ZS-plat


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pidgeon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hehe, I've to post my questions, too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




:

 I am starting with nothing, and this is a setup I've thought of:

 Lossless music = Free!
 +
 foobar2000/ASIO = Free!
 +
 ESI Juli@ = 212 $ (+10 $)
 +
 Coaxial Cable = 20 $
 +
 Zero DAC = 110 $ (+50 $)
 +
 HDAM = 80 $ (included in Zero)
 +
 Alps Volume Pot = 20 $ (included in Zero)
 +
 Little Dot MK-V = 300 $ (+50 $)
 +
 Sennheiser HD-650 = 390 $ (+10 $)
 =
 1252 $ = 797 € --> Good quality/price ratio?

 I listen to classical music (movie scores etc.), and I'll use a DAW to compose music (this is why I'll buy the Juli@).
 Someone suggested me the HD600 (they are neutral), someone other the HD650 (good extension, mid, bass, treble etc., but tends to be "dark").

 Do you think the HD650 could do a good job with this setup, or better the HD600?

 I ask this because I've had no chance to listen to headphones like AKG, Sennheiser and so on.

 Do you think, in general, that my setup could worth the money?

 If you need more informations, I'll be happy to give them! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I think you've got a really nice system going there!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well worth the money when considering the sound quality you will get from it. On the headphone issue, I have both the HD-600 & HD-650. I think the easiest way for you to decide, is to answer this question: Do you want your music to sound "genuine" or would you rather it be warmer than normal? Genuine would be the HD-600's and warmer would be the HD-650.

 You won't loose any sound qualities between the two models, which is a good thing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 On a side note, if I listen to my MKV using the Zero as the DAC, coming from my desktop PC, my HD-600s impress me as being amazingly accurate while the HD-650's impress me as being smoother. One thing is for sure, the HD-600's accurate high end really brings out the dynamics! I just love it!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Maybe in the long run, you might consider purchasing both headphones. There are days that the smooth and warm HD-650s are a blessing.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DSET* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_okay just to clarify
 so the reason i shouldnt buy a little dot amp(that performs better than the zero right?)
 is because my sound card isnt up to par and i need a DAC to get the best out of my A2ZS-plat_

 

It's a cart before the horses issue. You will get the most benefit from having the separate DAC doing the digital to analog conversion, instead of your sound card doing it. The better you can make your source signal before it is amplified, the better the results will be after amplification. So, if you went: SoundCard optical out to Zero, then Zero DAC output to LD Amp and plugged in to listen at the LD amp, lossless files are going to sound MUCH better.

 Most soundcard line-outs going directly to an amp will give you MUCH less than what you were hoping for. This has been proven hundreds of times and it is something we've all had to deal with.


----------



## Pidgeon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think you've got a really nice system going there!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well worth the money when considering the sound quality you will get from it. On the headphone issue, I have both the HD-600 & HD-650. I think the easiest way for you to decide, is to answer this question: Do you want your music to sound "genuine" or would you rather it be warmer than normal? Genuine would be the HD-600's and warmer would be the HD-650.

 You won't loose any sound qualities between the two models, which is a good thing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 On a side note, if I listen to my MKV using the Zero as the DAC, coming from my desktop PC, my HD-600s impress me as being amazingly accurate while the HD-650's impress me as being smoother. One thing is for sure, the HD-600's accurate high end really brings out the dynamics! I just love it!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Maybe in the long run, you might consider purchasing both headphones. There are days that the smooth and warm HD-650s are a blessing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I think I've found a solution (rather expensive)!

 After 2 hours of intensive reading, my conclusion is... why not to add a cable upgrade for the Sennheiser?

 Many people consider the Zu Mobius cable and the HD-650 a great team!

 Infact, the HD-650 should acquire much more detail, soundstage, etc., and lose its "dark sound" signature.

 So, if I'm going to spend 1252 $, 349 $ more shouldn't be a big problem 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (but these cables are sold almost at the same price of a pair of HD-650!).

 What do you think?


----------



## P_1

I think you should spend the 349 + the 110 + 50 + 20 + 80 you were going to spend on the Zero on a better DAC such as the lavry da10(a used one that is) or this (http://www.audio-magus.com/Citypulse...p/cpda203e.htm) if you can't find a used lavry. The reasoning is that the money you are spending on the cables won't be as huge of an upgrade as getting an even better DAC than the Zero.


----------



## DSET

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's a cart before the horses issue. You will get the most benefit from having the separate DAC doing the digital to analog conversion, instead of your sound card doing it. The better you can make your source signal before it is amplified, the better the results will be after amplification. So, if you went: SoundCard optical out to Zero, then Zero DAC output to LD Amp and plugged in to listen at the LD amp, lossless files are going to sound MUCH better.

 Most soundcard line-outs going directly to an amp will give you MUCH less than what you were hoping for. This has been proven hundreds of times and it is something we've all had to deal with. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

okay
 so im guessing my best bet is in order to
 1.
 get the zero
 2.wait a while get a little dot amp or whatnot
 3.whenevr i find a good deal on a sound card pick one up?

 right?

 or if i can find a good deal on sound card with a good built in amp would that be smart? is there such thing?


----------



## P_1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DSET* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_okay
 so im guessing my best bet is in order to
 1.
 get the zero
 2.wait a while get a little dot amp or whatnot
 3.whenevr i find a good deal on a sound card pick one up?

 right?

 or if i can find a good deal on sound card with a good built in amp would that be smart? is there such thing?_

 

You won't need a sound card, Lawrence provides a usb to spdif thing thats pretty good. If you really really want a sound card, you can go for a cheap chaintech for the spdif out.


----------



## DSET

i have an audigy 2 zs i have all thoose outs and more 

 -so whatever then all i need to get great quality is

 zero\amp\dac
 and the 
 little dot amp
 right?


----------



## tommy_uk77

can anyone tell me where to get ZERO DAC?


----------



## P_1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DSET* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i have an audigy 2 zs i have all thoose outs and more 

 -so whatever then all i need to get great quality is

 zero\amp\dac
 and the 
 little dot amp
 right?_

 

Correct. Also it would be advisable to get a good music player like foobar. Since you have an audigy 2 which I think resamples everything to 48khz, it would be advisable that you get foobar with the SSRC plugin and have SSRC resample to 48khz instead of the audigy itself.


----------



## P_1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tommy_uk77* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_can anyone tell me where to get ZERO DAC?_

 

The Zero is both a DAC and Amp in one box. You can get it on ebay, with biglawhk being the most reliable seller.


----------



## DSET

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *P_1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Correct. Also it would be advisable to get a good music player like foobar. Since you have an audigy 2 which I think resamples everything to 48khz, it would be advisable that you get foobar with the SSRC plugin and have SSRC resample to 48khz instead of the audigy itself._

 

cant i use itunes and change the settings myself?

 also is a zero still worth it if I listen to mp3s @ 200 to 320kbp max?


----------



## ssbkk

How can I obtain Lawrence e-mail so I could confirm what are in the price asked? I saw some of the thread talks about USB-coax adapter is included, but I could not see it on the eBay ads by biglawhk (I presume he is Lawrence)


----------



## P_1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DSET* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_cant i use itunes and change the settings myself?

 also is a zero still worth it if I listen to mp3s @ 200 to 320kbp max?_

 

itunes is horrible for serious music listening. The bit rate question depends on your headphones, some are sensitive to low bit rate some aren't. It also depends on your ears.


----------



## P_1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ssbkk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How can I obtain Lawrence e-mail so I could confirm what are in the price asked? I saw some of the thread talks about USB-coax adapter is included, but I could not see it on the eBay ads by biglawhk (I presume he is Lawrence)_

 

It's usb to optical not coax. You have to mention that you are from head fi and that you would like to receive the usb to optical convertor with your purchase. His email is: lawrencechanbig@msn.com


----------



## DSET

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *P_1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Correct. Also it would be advisable to get a good music player like foobar. Since you have an audigy 2 which I think resamples everything to 48khz, it would be advisable that you get foobar with the SSRC plugin and have SSRC resample to 48khz instead of the audigy itself._

 

K i got foobar 
 can you find me some good equalizer presets?
 and where do I find SSRC plugin and how do I activate it?
 thanks again for all the help peoples


----------



## vvanrij

Its a pretty bad EQ imo, you'r better off with a decent VST plugin.


----------



## Massimo

Hello! I am not really accustomed with posting on a forum...just been reading and now found the courage to ask 
 Hope this writing finds its way...

 I am in need of suggestions since I am thinking of purchasing the Zero DAC but not 100% sure it is the best solution for my needs. My modest set-up consist of CDP Cambridge Audio 340 C Azur + Sennheiser HD 595 (+ amp Trends Audio TA 10.1 and low-fi speakers). 
 The main purpose of this potential purchase is for headphone listening followed by the DAC option to connect the DVD which sonically is not the best. Main focus is however, as I said, the headphone. For this money should I rather by something as Little Dot or similar? Or is the Zero still the one to go? I mainly listen to rock, hard rock, prog rock metal (to name few bands I am listening to: Marillion, Dream Theater, Rush, Kansas and so forth). Thank you for all your help.
 Signed: undecided man


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Massimo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello! I am not really accustomed with posting on a forum...just been reading and now found the courage to ask 
 Hope this writing finds its way...

 I am in need of suggestions since I am thinking of purchasing the Zero DAC but not 100% sure it is the best solution for my needs. My modest set-up consist of CDP Cambridge Audio 340 C Azur + Sennheiser HD 595 (+ amp Trends Audio TA 10.1 and low-fi speakers). 
 The main purpose of this potential purchase is for headphone listening followed by the DAC option to connect the DVD which sonically is not the best. Main focus is however, as I said, the headphone. For this money should I rather by something as Little Dot or similar? Or is the Zero still the one to go? I mainly listen to rock, hard rock, prog rock metal (to name few bands I am listening to: Marillion, Dream Theater, Rush, Kansas and so forth). Thank you for all your help.
 Signed: undecided man_

 

Well, you've already discovered that the DAC in your player isn't up to your standard, so the Zero would help in this area. I can't tell you for sure how the Senn 595 is going to sound in the Zero's head amp, but I would expect an improvement. Driving a separate headphone amp with the Zero's DAC output is what most of us have done, and we like it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You could do this in steps, to spread the costs over a longer time period, if your budget dictates it.


----------



## Steph86

Hi,

 I have my zero connected to my motherboard optical out, which is supposed to support 192khz and the zero dac which also supports 192khz but for some reason when I set this in foobar under a dsp like pphs, ssrc or rabbit nothing plays? Does anyone know why this happenes?


----------



## P_1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Steph86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,

 I have my zero connected to my motherboard optical out, which is supposed to support 192khz and the zero dac which also supports 192khz but for some reason when I set this in foobar under a dsp like pphs, ssrc or rabbit nothing plays? Does anyone know why this happenes?_

 

Do you have the output set up correctly in foobar? Also there is no reason to resample everything to 192khz, I am assuming that your motherboard supports from 22 - 192 which is common. If you are on Vista you should be using the wasapi plug in, if you are on xp you should be using asio4all + asio plugin. Make sure the phone LED is also on, if its not press the "preamp" button.


----------



## tinseljim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *P_1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_itunes is horrible for serious music listening._

 

Sorry I must have missed that post. Can you elaborate? What's not to like about bit perfect sound and the Apple Lossless and/or Aiff?


----------



## Steph86

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *P_1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you have the output set up correctly in foobar? Also there is no reason to resample everything to 192khz, I am assuming that your motherboard supports from 22 - 192 which is common. If you are on Vista you should be using the wasapi plug in, if you are on xp you should be using asio4all + asio plugin. Make sure the phone LED is also on, if its not press the "preamp" button._

 


 Im using vista but I was using asio with vista? Is this wrong? when I used WASAPI it would not work at 24bit. Asio sounded better than wasapi to me.


----------



## P_1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tinseljim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry I must have missed that post. Can you elaborate? What's not to like about bit perfect sound and the Apple Lossless and/or Aiff?_

 

In what way is itunes bit perfect? You can play Apple Lossless from foobar as well with a plugin(or it might even be natively supported). itunes does not use ASIO or any form of bit perfect streaming, it just plays through the regular windows sound stack(kmixer). You are truely mistaken if you believe itunes to be bit perfect.


----------



## P_1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Steph86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Im using vista but I was using asio with vista? Is this wrong? when I used WASAPI it would not work at 24bit. Asio sounded better than wasapi to me._

 

ASIO is fine, its just that WASAPI performs better. To my ears WASAPI sounds better than ASIO, partially because I am able to use the resampler at "Ultra" mode without my sound files stuttering from all the cpu usage.


----------



## Steph86

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *P_1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ASIO is fine, its just that WASAPI performs better. To my ears WASAPI sounds better than ASIO, partially because I am able to use the resampler at "Ultra" mode without my sound files stuttering from all the cpu usage._

 


 what resampler do you use and at what hz setting?
 Also I set output to 24 bit but does not work? what do you have yours set to?


----------



## P_1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Steph86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_what resampler do you use and at what hz setting?
 Also I set output to 24 bit but does not work? what do you have yours set to?_

 

I use SSRC at 44.1khz for the usb to spdif thats provided. If you are using your onboard audio, go to the device properties in windows and then go to playback settings, there should be a drop down box for you to select 24 bit/ whatever hz. If you are using onboard audio that supports upto 192khz there is no need to resample. I am only resampling because the device I am using only goes upto 55khz which basically means 44.1 or 48khz only.


----------



## P_1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tinseljim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry I must have missed that post. Can you elaborate? What's not to like about bit perfect sound and the Apple Lossless and/or Aiff?_

 

Take a look at this if you must use itunes.(Not sure if you can set the engine to use ASIO while doing this pass through stuff, I don't use itunes)
Release - Multi-Plugin 2.3 for iTunes 6 - Aqua-Soft Forums

  Quote:


 Foobar2000 passthrough:
 Using this option will make iTunes play sound through the Foobar2000 engine.
 You must have Foobar2000 0.8.3 or later for it to work.
 This feature improves the sound quality, but it has several limitations:
 1. Foobar2000 will not run simultaneously with iTunes when this option is enabled.
 2. All the iTunes sound processing features will do nothing as long as this option is enabled.
 3. After checking this option for the first time, you might hear an echo when listening to music. Restart iTunes to fix it.
 You may include |No Foobar2000| in the Comments tag of a track to force it to play using the default engine.
 This way it's possible to play tracks from the Music Store while Foobar2000 passthrough is enabled.


----------



## vvanrij

I tried this WASAPI (I use Vista), and it actually gave stutter, while my normal audio (External Creative SoundBlaster) doesn't give any stutters. Also I tend to stick to 16bit, as I don't have any 24bit recording! (except dvd, but that work with a whole different system, codecs etc.)


----------



## Steph86

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *P_1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I use SSRC at 44.1khz for the usb to spdif thats provided. If you are using your onboard audio, go to the device properties in windows and then go to playback settings, there should be a drop down box for you to select 24 bit/ whatever hz. If you are using onboard audio that supports upto 192khz there is no need to resample. I am only resampling because the device I am using only goes upto 55khz which basically means 44.1 or 48khz only._

 


 I can't find that device properties in windows? is there such a thing in vista?


----------



## P_1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvanrij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I tried this WASAPI (I use Vista), and it actually gave stutter, while my normal audio (External Creative SoundBlaster) doesn't give any stutters. Also I tend to stick to 16bit, as I don't have any 24bit recording! (except dvd, but that work with a whole different system, codecs etc.)_

 

Setting the buffer wrong in the output section results in that. I have mine at 1000ms for WASAPI and it has no stutter at all.
 Also make sure you have the latest wasapi plugin version.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Steph86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can't find that device properties in windows? is there such a thing in vista?_

 

Of course there is... right click the sound icon next to your clock on the task bar, then click playback devices...


----------



## Steph86

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *P_1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Setting the buffer wrong in the output section results in that. I have mine at 1000ms for WASAPI and it has no stutter at all.



 Of course there is... right click the sound icon next to your clock on the task bar, then click playback devices..._

 

Oh I knew about that sorry, but there is no where in there that lets me select 24 bit.


----------



## P_1

Also take a look at this:
Foobar2000:Components 0.9/WASAPI output support (foo out wasapi) - Hydrogenaudio Knowledgebase

 It talks about some problems and how to resolve them.


----------



## EmptyTalk

I read much of this informative thread and it prompted me to buy the Zero. I hooked it up today with my Sennheiser HD595 headphones and am very happy with it (I also own Grado SR80, but haven't tried them out yet). My only concern is that the headphone amp volume seems to be extremely loud for my comfort level (especially when I use the optical output from my CD player). Using the optical output, I can't even set the volume pot to 9:00 without it becoming overbearing. Am I just a puss with ultra sensitive ears, or is the headphone amp designed for higher impedance cans? If the latter, will I not be taking full advantage of the Zero's capabilities if I only use it with lower impedance cans at relatively low listening levels?

 PS - I'm a total noob at this, and I apologize in advance for my ignorance.

 By the way, since this is my first post, I would like to say "thanks" to everyone who has provided useful information, tips, and reviews in this thread. You have been very helpful.


----------



## P_1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EmptyTalk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I read much of this informative thread and it prompted me to buy the Zero. I hooked it up today with my Sennheiser HD595 headphones and am very happy with it (I also own Grado SR80, but haven't tried them out yet). My only concern is that the headphone amp volume seems to be extremely loud for my comfort level (especially when I use the optical output from my CD player). Using the optical output, I can't even set the volume pot to 9:00 without it becoming overbearing. Am I just a puss with ultra sensitive ears, or is the headphone amp designed for higher impedance cans? If the latter, will I not be taking full advantage of the Zero's capabilities if I only use it with lower impedance cans at relatively low listening levels?

 PS - I'm a total noob at this, and I apologize in advance for my ignorance.

 By the way, since this is my first post, I would like to say "thanks" to everyone who has provided useful information, tips, and reviews in this thread. You have been very helpful._

 

I also have a very similar problem my w5000s are low impedance(40 ohms) so what I decided to do was order an Alps pot from lawrence to upgrade the head amp with, which would allow me to run at lower volume settings with the same fidelity as the higher volume settings. You might want to consider doing the same, as it seems that the Alps pot that lawrence sells is a vintage pot that is hard to obtain.


----------



## ScannerMobs

Hello, I recently got my Zero DAC from ebay. Overall very happy so far (run in has been going for about 40 hrs), but I have a couple of questions, my apologies if they have already been addressed.

 First off I noticed that I have smaller capacitors used in places on the board than the ones in the 'original' design, these are the thin dark ones, used elsewhere on the board, but on mine they are in place of 4 thick red caps that I think are near the opamp on the main board. Can anyone shed any light for me on why these are used, what differences there might be to the sound, and how I might go about replacing them if necessary?

 Another question, I have the Zero set up going between my Trends UD-10.1 (just being used as a transport from my pc) and the Trends TA-10.1 amp, does anyone have any advice on where to set the power on the Zero and the Trends amp for optimum performance? And which I should use for volume control? At the moment I have the Zero up to around halfway (seems to sound good) but as a result I only have to turn my Trends amp up to about a quarter for listening most of the time, and use the Zero for volume control.

 Cheers


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScannerMobs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello, I recently got my Zero DAC from ebay. Overall very happy so far (run in has been going for about 40 hrs), but I have a couple of questions, my apologies if they have already been addressed.

 First off I noticed that I have smaller capacitors used in places on the board than the ones in the 'original' design, these are the thin dark ones, used elsewhere on the board, but on mine they are in place of 4 thick red caps that I think are near the opamp on the main board. Can anyone shed any light for me on why these are used, what differences there might be to the sound, and how I might go about replacing them if necessary?

 Another question, I have the Zero set up going between my Trends UD-10.1 (just being used as a transport from my pc) and the Trends TA-10.1 amp, does anyone have any advice on where to set the power on the Zero and the Trends amp for optimum performance? And which I should use for volume control? At the moment I have the Zero up to around halfway (seems to sound good) but as a result I only have to turn my Trends amp up to about a quarter for listening most of the time, and use the Zero for volume control.

 Cheers_

 

Hi! The cap changes were a part of an upgrade to the original Zero, back in December. I haven't had time to take new pics for the review. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 So, your Trends UD-10.1 allows you to bypass it's DAC function and go digital out to the Zero? That's cool. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I would set the Trends TD-10.1 amp at a level, whereby moving the Zero's volume pot feels proper to you. On my little setup here, I have my Sonic T-amp turned up to about 3:00 and use my Yamaha pre-amp's volume pot to vary the output, with the Zero coming in on AUX1 at full line level (not variable). I would imagine that if I didn't have the Yamaha pre-amp, I'd still run the Sonic Super-T amp at about 3/4, and use the Zero's variable output like you do. So many volume knobs, and so little time!


----------



## ScannerMobs

Hey Penchum, thanks for your reply! Thanks also for writing such a good review, and starting a very detailed thread.

 Yeah the Trends UD-10.1 allows you to bypass the onboard DAC, effectively allowing you to use your PC or Mac as a high quality sound source together with any standalone hi-fi or pro-audio DAC (it has optical, 2x coax and even AES out). The only rather strange thing it does is limit the signal going through it to 16/48 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 !!.. Not a massive problem for everyday listening (for me), but a slight shame I can't take advantage of the Zero's 24/192 capabilities. However at the moment I am using the optical lead supplied with the Zero, and it sounds great at 16/48.

 Thanks also for your advice on pre/power levels!


----------



## P_1

On another note, I was wondering if anyone had lt1364's left. I would like to try them in the head amp section. The lme49720s are getting kind of fatiguing.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *P_1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On another note, I was wondering if anyone had lt1364's left. I would like to try them in the head amp section. The lme49720s are getting kind of fatiguing._

 


 Have you ordered samples from LT yet ? If not you can get freebies for evaluation from Linear. Digi-key has them for a decent price as another option.

 Peete.


----------



## P_1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you ordered samples from LT yet ? If not you can get freebies for evaluation from Linear. Digi-key has them for a decent price as another option.

 Peete._

 

Yea I've ordered them from LT but I haven't received them its been like 3 weeks. They said it would take 1 - 2 weeks, I dunno whats going on.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Drop LT an email if the samples don't show by next Friday. The states just had a major holiday (July 4), so that could be cause for some of the delay by the post office. Just a guess....I know it slows things up here in Canaduh whenever a holiday weekend comes along, automatically add 1 or 2 weeks for the postal workers to find their pants, keys, have a shower, eat, recover from monumental hangovers etc......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## P_1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Drop LT an email if the samples don't show by next Friday. The states just had a major holiday (July 4), so that could be cause for some of the delay by the post office. Just a guess....I know it slows things up here in Canaduh whenever a holiday weekend comes along, automatically add 1 or 2 weeks for the postal workers to find their pants, keys, have a shower, eat, recover from monumental hangovers etc......
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Peete._

 

Nah I've received my National samples and I ordered them after I ordered the Linear samples.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone tried the AD825 on the DAC section? what is the characteristics of AD825 (without output coupling cap, blackgate)

 Since AD825 is JFET, will it perform better than DY2000 in the DAC section in terms of vocal with good treble and bass extension?_

 

I tried the AD825 a while ago. It's fairly good but not as good as the 627 in the DAC section. I wasn't compelled to leave it in for any length of time. Kind of warm sounding, rolled off highs, a little muddy in the deep bass region, mids are nice though. Much preferred the 627 over it. 

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *P_1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think you should spend the 349 + the 110 + 50 + 20 + 80 you were going to spend on the Zero on a better DAC such as the lavry da10(a used one that is) or this (Citypulse Digital Analog Converter DA2.03e with USB 2.0) if you can't find a used lavry. The reasoning is that the money you are spending on the cables won't be as huge of an upgrade as getting an even better DAC than the Zero._

 

Or a Great March II, it has both single ended and balanced outs. The Citypulse that P 1 talks about is another good candidate.

 Peete.


----------



## Oya?

Just wanted to rant RE op-amps; I bought some AD8620s for the headamp section and have been enjoying them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I also ordered the OPA627AUs for the DAC from Lawrence, but they weren't working properly when I got them, so I mailed them back and he's mailing me a replacement (Lawrence is totally awesome to deal with).

 Kind of a pity though because I don't think I'll be using the OPA627AUs, as I ended up ordering an HDAM module from him just now, thanks to reading all the impressions here (Prickley's reviews was esp. useful, thank you). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This cheapo bang-for-buck Zero is draining my wallet pretty fast after all. It looks like the pot upgrade will have to wait.


----------



## Pidgeon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Or a Great March II, it has both single ended and balanced outs. The Citypulse that P 1 talks about is another good candidate.

 Peete._

 

I'm thinking about buying the Lavry DA10 (which is better than the Benchmark DAC-1, according to many reviews).

 Doing so, I would spend (only) 250 € more, which should really worth it.

 Many people are saying that it would be better to run HD-650 in a balanced way, so could DA10 --> Zu Mobius XLR --> HD-650 be a good setup?

 It seems that DA10 can drive headphones really good using directly its balanced XLR out...


----------



## P_1

Sounds good, better use of your money than before.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pidgeon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm thinking about buying the Lavry DA10 (which is better than the Benchmark DAC-1, according to many reviews).

 Doing so, I would spend (only) 250 € more, which should really worth it.

 Many people are saying that it would be better to run HD-650 in a balanced way, so could DA10 --> Zu Mobius XLR --> HD-650 be a good setup?

 It seems that DA10 can drive headphones really good using directly its balanced XLR out..._

 

Sounds like a good plan 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oya?* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just wanted to rant RE op-amps; I bought some AD8620s for the headamp section and have been enjoying them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I also ordered the OPA627AUs for the DAC from Lawrence, but they weren't working properly when I got them, so I mailed them back and he's mailing me a replacement (Lawrence is totally awesome to deal with).

 Kind of a pity though because I don't think I'll be using the OPA627AUs, as I ended up ordering an HDAM module from him just now, thanks to reading all the impressions here (Prickley's reviews was esp. useful, thank you). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This cheapo bang-for-buck Zero is draining my wallet pretty fast after all. It looks like the pot upgrade will have to wait. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Your quite welcome OYA......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *worthtosee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello! welcome to our website; Cheap nike jordan shoes in www.hot-nike.com--Newnike shoes International Trade Co.,Ltd
 I am very glad to see you here and explore good friendship & business relation with you. 
 we can supply wholesale nike shoes ,t-shirts,bags
 Here are brief introduction of our company:
 Jordan 1-23
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 air1 max TN shox TL/TL2/TL3 shox monster shox turbo shox VCIII shox R4/R5 Shox NZ Timberlands polo predator bape 
 lacoste burberry tuscano andrea redmoney LV
 etc.
 1) high quality. All the Shoes we offer are of the grade AAA 
 2) safety. If the shoes can not pass the custom inspection, we will transit them again or we will refund the money you paid. 
 3) quick shipment. We have agreement with some international express Corporation, the shoes will be shipped within 24 hours 
 after we received your Payment. And the package will reach your side in 4-6working days. 
 4) lowest Price. We can give you competitive price based on equal conditions in china. 

 5) We are very serious business man, sure we are your very right cooperator. 
 Size: US 5- 13 usd dollars 36-46
 Color: various 
 Packing: original box with retro cards 
 all the shoes is packed with original box,and the tags and style code number is 100% 
 correct,small mini order and even drop ship is available here . All the products is in good quality with low price.
 We can deliver the shoes of our customers within 24 hours upon receiving the payment. 
 We never mind starting the business from minimum order even 1 pair.
 Website: Cheap nike jordan shoes in www.hot-nike.com--Newnike shoes International Trade Co.,Ltd 
 msn:hot-nike@hotmail.com_

 

What ?

 Peete.


----------



## tommy_uk77

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kake* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OT: 17 days ago, I requested some free samples from LT (2xLT1364 ). Have yet to receive them,, 
 Anny one know if thy ship samples to Denmark?_

 

how to order sample?can anyone teaching me?


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I tried the AD825 a while ago. It's fairly good but not as good as the 627 in the DAC section. I wasn't compelled to leave it in for any length of time. Kind of warm sounding, rolled off highs, a little muddy in the deep bass region, mids are nice though. Much preferred the 627 over it. 

 Peete._

 

Tks. I will just stay away from AD825. 

 Do you think u can do a comparison for DY2000 with OPA627 . I find it interesting, give me very analog feel on the DAC section. I also notice someone is selling DY2100, wonder if this is improved version of DY2000.


----------



## Oya?

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tommy_uk77* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_how to order sample?can anyone teaching me?_

 

I'm having a hard time getting into LT's (the manufacturer is called Linear Technologies) website, but when it does go up there should be a section where you can request op-amp samples; they'll get you to fill out some info. My understanding is that you need to use a work or business address, however.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oya?* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm having a hard time getting into LT's (the manufacturer is called Linear Technologies) website, but when it does go up there should be a section where you can request op-amp samples; they'll get you to fill out some info. My understanding is that you need to use a work or business address, however._

 

No, just use your home address. Thats what I did.


----------



## Penchum

The Postman came by my house about noon, so I unplugged Zero #1 and said, "I'd better get after this, real soon." I opened the case and what do you know, the 627's jumped out and I gave the HDAM a go!

 First impressions feeding my MKIVse: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 Wow!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tks. I will just stay away from AD825. 

 Do you think u can do a comparison for DY2000 with OPA627 . I find it interesting, give me very analog feel on the DAC section. I also notice someone is selling DY2100, wonder if this is improved version of DY2000._

 

I don't have DY2100, and don't plan on buying any more opamps for my Zero. See below.....and mini review in sig for reasons why....

 The most analog sounding (IMHO) is the HDAM. I don't use anything other than the HDAM in the dac/analog section of my Zero. I'm not saying that is what you should do, it's just my personal preference. 

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Postman came by my house about noon, so I unplugged Zero #1 and said, "I'd better get after this, real soon." I opened the case and what do you know, the 627's jumped out and I gave the HDAM a go!

 First impressions feeding my MKIVse: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			











 Wow!_

 

Right on P.......finally the post man delivers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 PM me in few hours after you have had time to digest what your experiencing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## cybertron

I have noticed there are 3 different sellers with this amp on ebay at the moment. Does anyone know if this means different people are making them and possibly the quality would suffer? Or if newer units are not as good as the 'original'? I'd like to buy one very soon, so I'm just checking in first. Thanks guys.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cybertron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have noticed there are 3 different sellers with this amp on ebay at the moment. Does anyone know if this means different people are making them and possibly the quality would suffer? Or if newer units are not as good as the 'original'? I'd like to buy one very soon, so I'm just checking in first. Thanks guys._

 

Most people got theirs from Lawrence. I would stick with him. He upgraded my ALPS POT with no problem and he ships relatively fast.


----------



## cybertron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Most people got theirs from Lawrence. I would stick with him. He upgraded my ALPS POT with no problem and he ships relatively fast._

 

Penchum is Lawrence? I havent been following this thread, I dropped off a while ago, and have finally come back.


----------



## Oya?

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cybertron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Penchum is Lawrence? I havent been following this thread, I dropped off a while ago, and have finally come back._

 

Haha, nah Penchum isn't affiliated with him. I don't think Lawrence himself posts on here, although it looks like he deals with lots of Head-Fiers.


----------



## SilverRubicon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nedman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lawrence is a seller on ebay, who goes by the name of "biglawhk " who most of the people in this thread have purchased this DAC from. Lawrence also has the advantage that he is fully converse with all the extras spoken about in this thread, for the Zero DAC [upgraded op-amps, HDAM, etc]. And has also been very helpful, if anyone has had any problems.

 There are also other sellers of this DAC on ebay. [I purchased mine off " shenzhen Audio store "]. To have a look at all of them just put "Zero DAC" in ebays search engine, and click worldwide._

 

Does this guy actually exist? I placed an order on the 9th and have not heard anything back apart from the ebay/paypal order confirmation. I have not heard a peep from Lawrence. If it wasn't for the recommendations in this thread, I would have filed a fraud alert with ebay and canceled the charge to my credit card.


----------



## alxwang

Just call the manufacture 10 unit min and the price is 500 chinese yuan each. EMS cost will be around 250 yuan per unit.


----------



## Oya?

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SilverRubicon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does this guy actually exist? I placed an order on the 9th and have not heard anything back apart from the ebay/paypal order confirmation. I have not heard a peep from Lawrence. If it wasn't for the recommendations in this thread, I would have filed a fraud alert with ebay and canceled the charge to my credit card._

 

Lawrence? If you're unsure about the state of your order you should email him; sometimes he likes to ship stuff out without any confirmation/shipping notification, although usually he sends one to your PayPal email.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

His full name is Lawrence Chan, yes he exists 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've talked with him on a number of occasions late, very late at night, Eastern time zone in N America. Time change between N America and China must be sizable, that would cause issues with communication....

 Don't worry SilverRubicon you'll get your Zero soon enough, just relax....take it easy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Mine took about a week to 10 days to be built,tested and then shipped, Lawrence only emailed me after he shipped it. Took 4 days to arrive after that...so 2 weeks for mine. Not the average time of wait, usually takes less than 2 weeks. 


 Peete.


----------



## jbrown237

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SilverRubicon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does this guy actually exist? I placed an order on the 9th and have not heard anything back apart from the ebay/paypal order confirmation. I have not heard a peep from Lawrence. If it wasn't for the recommendations in this thread, I would have filed a fraud alert with ebay and canceled the charge to my credit card._

 

I ordered a Zero from Lawrence on the 8th and was worrying too since I didn't receive an email from him, so I emailed him today. I received a reply one minute later and he told me it would be shipped sometime this week. I guess I'll give him another week until I start worrying again.


----------



## cybertron

I know i'm being lazy, so feel free to flame me, but if I do order one of these... per Oya?'s comment, I should have Lawrence upgrade to ALPS POT? I can solder just fine myself, but if I can get a few little things from them before it ships for cheap, them I'll go for it. I remember the list of IC's or whatever they were that are "good" "great" etc, so I'll mess with that when i get it unless he will do that for me. But I'd rather save money and do it myself if thats available.


----------



## Oya?

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cybertron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know i'm being lazy, so feel free to flame me, but if I do order one of these... per Oya?'s comment, I should have Lawrence upgrade to ALPS POT? I can solder just fine myself, but if I can get a few little things from them before it ships for cheap, them I'll go for it. I remember the list of IC's or whatever they were that are "good" "great" etc, so I'll mess with that when i get it unless he will do that for me. But I'd rather save money and do it myself if thats available._

 

I think it's a good idea, and I don't think he'll charge any labour for sticking in the pot upgrade. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


Besides, it looks like no-one else (correct me if I'm wrong) knows of a place to get that specific pot model other than from Lawrence; it looks like a really tight fit. Even if you wanted to do it yourself you'd still have to order one from him later.
 
 The other things he supplies are OPA627/637s mounted on adapters and HDAM modules with a soft adapter. I think most people grabbed one set of 627s for the DAC section and the pot upgrade with their order.

_*EDIT: *After re-reading Penchy's original post RE the pot upgrade w/ pics, turns out that I missed the discussion about the model type. It's just a standard ALPS 100KAX2, with the housing stripped and a small metal protrusion clipped off._


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cybertron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know i'm being lazy, so feel free to flame me, but if I do order one of these... per Oya?'s comment, I should have Lawrence upgrade to ALPS POT? I can solder just fine myself, but if I can get a few little things from them before it ships for cheap, them I'll go for it. I remember the list of IC's or whatever they were that are "good" "great" etc, so I'll mess with that when i get it unless he will do that for me. But I'd rather save money and do it myself if thats available._

 

The stock Zero now comes with OPA627AU (in DAC section) and LT1364(in headphone amp section), so the only upgrade is the Alps pot and the HDAM. 

 The Alps pot is 10 bucks, the HDAM is 80. Having Lawrence install the Alps prior to shipment is a good idea even if you fancy doing it yourself.


 Peete.


----------



## Oya?

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The stock Zero now comes with OPA627AU (in DAC section) and LT1364(in headphone amp section), so the only upgrade is the Alps pot and the HDAM._

 

Was this a recent change? The stock Zero I got last month came with an OPA2604 in the DAC and NE5532Ps in the headamp.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oya?* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Was this a recent change? The stock Zero I got last month came with an OPA2604 in the DAC and NE5532Ps in the headamp._

 


 I think Penchum mentioned the change not to long ago (within the last 2 weeks or so). I can't seem to find the post at the moment. It's a very recent change IIRC. I could be wrong...

 Pench could you clarify the assertion please 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got an email from Lawrence, telling me of a new deal he has going for HeadFi members. I was inquiring about the price of a new Zero for my second analog stack and here is what he said:

 "If you have a chance, please let the forum members know my new offer.
 I'll like to sell Zero at $139 together with the opamp upgrades that is 1 module OPA627AU in the analog section and 2pcs LT1364 in the headamp section."

 So there you have it. A Zero with a great Opamp combo already combined!
 If you have questions, email Lawrence at lawrencechanbig@msn.com_

 


 Here's Penchum's post (back on page 421) stating the new deal from Lawrence. 

 Peete.


----------



## Oya?

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's Penchum's post (back on page 421) stating the new deal from Lawrence. 

 Peete._

 

Thank you very much. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Too bad I missed out on that; I was wondering how the LT1364s would've compared to AD8620s in the headamp.


----------



## cybertron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's Penchum's post (back on page 421) stating the new deal from Lawrence. 

 Peete._

 

Ok sweet. So is the HDAM the socket like setup so that you can easily swap your own? or is that something else?

 Sorry for my ignorance, this will be my first amp... hopefully it will do nice things to my ATH-A900LTDs


----------



## Oya?

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cybertron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok sweet. So is the HDAM the socket like setup so that you can easily swap your own? or is that something else?

 Sorry for my ignorance, this will be my first amp... hopefully it will do nice things to my ATH-A900LTDs_

 

Here's a photo that Lawrence emailed me (I hope he doesn't mind if I post it). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You can see that it plugs straight into an IC socket, or you can solder it right to the board, but here it's got an extension cable adaptor because the Zero's chassis is too small to house the HDAM standing upright.






 And some more pics posted earlier in the thread here.

 Slightly OT; I have a newbish question to HDAM users... I have to solder that ground wire somewhere right? Where's an ideal spot?

 Another OT question; what is that hideous foam that Lawrence always photographs his stuff on?


----------



## cybertron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oya?* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's a photo that Lawrence emailed me (I hope he doesn't mind if I post it). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You can see that it plugs straight into an IC socket, or you can solder it right to the board, but here it's got an extension cable adaptor because the Zero's chassis is too small to house the HDAM standing upright.

 [.IMG]http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/3949/hdamextensioncableyy8.jpg[/IMG]

 And some more pics posted earlier in the thread here.

 Slightly OT; I have a newbish question to HDAM users... I have to solder that ground wire somewhere right? Where's an ideal spot?

 Another OT question; what is that hideous foam that Lawrence always photographs his stuff on? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ah ok, cool. So what is the advantage of the HDAM? 

 The foam is more than likely just standard anti-static computer/electronics phone. You get it along with motherboards, and sometimes things like soundcards and what not. Its pretty common in places that they solder or deal with lots of components. I actually use it to solder on or at least a place to lay parts rather than just on the wood of my desk.


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oya?* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*EDIT: *After re-reading Penchy's original post RE the pot upgrade w/ pics, turns out that I missed the discussion about the model type. It's just a standard ALPS 100KAX2, with the housing stripped and a small metal protrusion clipped off._

 

I thought so, but the good ol' Pench disagrees with that...


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oya?* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Haha, nah Penchum isn't affiliated with him. I don't think Lawrence himself posts on here, although it looks like he deals with lots of Head-Fiers._

 

Why not? After soo many posts mentioning his name and products, do you really believe he is not even following this thread?

 Our discussions may lead to further profits for him... just think about it...

 Needless to say, I'm a satisfied customer of him, but I like to keep my feet on the ground...


----------



## Oya?

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cybertron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah ok, cool. So what is the advantage of the HDAM?_

 

It's a discrete circuit module as opposed to an integrated circuit op-amp. Supposedly superior to adapter mounted OPA627s (and all other IC op-amps). I can't comment because I haven't received mine yet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why not? After soo many posts mentioning his name and products, do you really believe he is not even following this thread?

 Our discussions may lead to further profits for him... just think about it...

 Needless to say, I'm a satisfied customer of him, but I like to keep my feet on the ground..._

 

He may not post here but he's quite familiar with us. It looks like he offers special deals to Head-Fiers here and there to show his appreciation, which is nice.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought so, but the good ol' Pench disagrees with that..._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why not? After soo many posts mentioning his name and products, do you really believe he is not even following this thread?

 Our discussions may lead to further profits for him... just think about it...

 Needless to say, I'm a satisfied customer of him, but I like to keep my feet on the ground..._

 

Please be nice to me pincellone, I'm very sensitive today. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The volume pots Lawrence is selling (if he has any left) are NOS units. The metal face plate is completely different than the new ones in that link. The worry, is the space for it to fit in. If you go back and look at the pics I took, you'll see a cap right up against the right (back) side of the pot. I wish someone would strip down one of the new pots and try to get it to fit in that space. If it worked, that would be great, however, from the measurements shown in the newer pot pics, it doesn't look promising. I've done two of these pot upgrades and both were a tight fit, but they work. For $10, it's a bargain for those ordering a new Zero IMHO.

 Back in Nov-Dec last year, other sellers of the Zero were screwing over buyers of the Zero. Take the money and run kind of stuff. Lawrence was the only one who came through it all as a trusted seller. Since then, he's improved his offerings and done some really nice things for HeadFi members who can't find upgrades easy or don't have the skills to do the upgrades themselves. Being responsive to his customers isn't a bad thing. If he were directly involved in HeadFi (like many are here) then it might represent a problem in some way. Instead, he's watched his emails from customers and found ways to help them out, which has resulted in automatic upgrades to the stock Zero unit coming from him directly. I find that refreshing.

 There is much interest in simple upgrades to the Zero and so far, Lawrence and one other seller are the only ones who have stepped up and provided any upgrades. I would love it if other sellers stepped up, but it appears that most of the others just want to sell the stock unit and nothing else. It is easy to see why many members buy from Lawrence. He's the only trusted seller offering choices on upgrades, and doing the upgrade work before shipping the units out.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oya?* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's a photo that Lawrence emailed me (I hope he doesn't mind if I post it). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You can see that it plugs straight into an IC socket, or you can solder it right to the board, but here it's got an extension cable adaptor because the Zero's chassis is too small to house the HDAM standing upright.






 And some more pics posted earlier in the thread here.

 Slightly OT; I have a newbish question to HDAM users... I have to solder that ground wire somewhere right? Where's an ideal spot?

 Another OT question; what is that hideous foam that Lawrence always photographs his stuff on? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That's a nice solution for those that wish to keep their lids on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll have to ask Lawrence if he'll sell me one if I tire of the naked look 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The ground wire (on the HDAM) is an extra, if you have hum, then connect to nearest pcb ground point, if you don't have hum don't connect it...that's it.

 Peete.


----------



## Penchum

I received an email from Lawrence yesterday. He told me about a cable for the HDAM he is selling, but I don't know the cable price (if there is one). Here is the pic he sent along with instructions for those folks who have already purchased the HDAM from him:






 "The HDAM extension cable is available as in the pics, it is made of 5N pure copper cable.

 Please post a message to the forum members who using my HDAM and want this cable, please email me .

 It is free of charge for them."

 It appears the cable will be included with the HDAM, but I don't have clarification of this yet. I'm waiting for his reply on this.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why not? After soo many posts mentioning his name and products, do you really believe he is not even following this thread?

 Our discussions may lead to further profits for him... just think about it...

 Needless to say, I'm a satisfied customer of him, but I like to keep my feet on the ground..._

 

Ok I've thought about it and this is what I've come up with....

 Isn't it refreshing to have the ear of the actual manufacturer of a product you wish to buy or already own, supporting his customers as configuration and upgrades filter back to said manufacturer from end users and vice versa.

 As far as profiteering is concerned, most of the upgrades have free accessories, hardly profitable for Lawrence. He didn't have to make an HDAM jumper did he....looks like it's going to be offered free of charge to those that have bought an HDAM from him. Where's the profit in that ? He offers a deal to head fi members (upgraded opamps) at the same price including shipping that the earlier version sold for. Where's the profit in that ? I'd gladly give him 10 bucks for that harness, it takes time to build, time is money is is not ?
 Yep, I'm suspicious of Lawrence's evil grand plan alright 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 All kidding aside.................

 Having one's feet firmly planted on the ground is a personal issue, requiring one to investigate one's purchases weighing the options before buying that item. The Zero sold through Lawrence is as transparent a buy as I can see outside of David and Sword at Little Dot. I'd have to say both Mr Chan and LD have customer service down to a science and it only serves the end user of their products as it should. This isn't a rant against your point of view just another take on what I see when confronted with all the facts (with regards to Lawrence and his Zero).

 In other words have those feet planted firmly, no one is saying otherwise, just don't bury your head 12 inches below those planted feet. !!!

 Peete.


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Please be nice to me pincellone, I'm very sensitive today. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The volume pots Lawrence is selling (if he has any left) are NOS units. The metal face plate is completely different than the new ones in that link. The worry, is the space for it to fit in. If you go back and look at the pics I took, you'll see a cap right up against the right (back) side of the pot. I wish someone would strip down one of the new pots and try to get it to fit in that space. If it worked, that would be great, however, from the measurements shown in the newer pot pics, it doesn't look promising. I've done two of these pot upgrades and both were a tight fit, but they work. For $10, it's a bargain for those ordering a new Zero IMHO.

 Back in Nov-Dec last year, other sellers of the Zero were screwing over buyers of the Zero. Take the money and run kind of stuff. Lawrence was the only one who came through it all as a trusted seller. Since then, he's improved his offerings and done some really nice things for HeadFi members who can't find upgrades easy or don't have the skills to do the upgrades themselves. Being responsive to his customers isn't a bad thing. If he were directly involved in HeadFi (like many are here) then it might represent a problem in some way. Instead, he's watched his emails from customers and found ways to help them out, which has resulted in automatic upgrades to the stock Zero unit coming from him directly. I find that refreshing.

 There is much interest in simple upgrades to the Zero and so far, Lawrence and one other seller are the only ones who have stepped up and provided any upgrades. I would love it if other sellers stepped up, but it appears that most of the others just want to sell the stock unit and nothing else. It is easy to see why many members buy from Lawrence. He's the only trusted seller offering choices on upgrades, and doing the upgrade work before shipping the units out._

 

I think I was nice enough. I didn't say anything bad neither to Lawrence nor to you... I would definitely buy you a couple of beers if I could


----------



## Steph86

Just a quick question, I have been in to many audio stores in london and quite a few maplin stores and no one seems to be able to help me with regards to a splitter so I can split the signal from my zero to my darkvoice and my hifi. I am looking for either an adapter or a cable which goes into the back of the zero (analogue out-red/white) and gives me two outputs (2 sets of red/white). I have seen something like this in adapter form on the darkvoice 332 first page, unfortunately the pictures do not seem to load anymore.

 Does anyone own anything like this and if so where can I get one from?

 Thanks
 Steph


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Hello all, where would be the best place to order this Zero Amp?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think I was nice enough. I didn't say anything bad neither to Lawrence nor to you... I would definitely buy you a couple of beers if I could 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

And I would gladly drink them and toast to your good health! My Doctor might get mad about it, but that's another story. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You were being nice and I was trying to put a funny spin on it, that's all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The rest was more clarification of what is really in front of us. If I thought for one second that Lawrence was using the membership to become a rich man, I would raise the awareness flag to full staff! Thank goodness he's an audiophile who knows what people are looking for, and provides a much needed service at a ridiculously low cost. I really do hope it stays this way, because more products will surface that fit the "best bang for the buck" criteria, and I'd feel even better if I could purchase them from a seller like Lawrence.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Steph86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just a quick question, I have been in to many audio stores in london and quite a few maplin stores and no one seems to be able to help me with regards to a splitter so I can split the signal from my zero to my darkvoice and my hifi. I am looking for either an adapter or a cable which goes into the back of the zero (analogue out-red/white) and gives me two outputs (2 sets of red/white). I have seen something like this in adapter form on the darkvoice 332 first page, unfortunately the pictures do not seem to load anymore.

 Does anyone own anything like this and if so where can I get one from?

 Thanks
 Steph_

 

1 male RCA to 2 female RCA per channel Y-adapter's am I correct Steph ?

 Here's a link to a parts supplier in the USA that has what your looking for, well built and for reasonable cost....two versions to choose from...

 first up

Parts Express:Gold RCA Y (1) Male To (2) Right Angle Female Black

 Second, a traditional Y splitter

Parts Express
	

ayton RCAY-MFF RCA Y Cable 1 M To 2 F

 and the inverse of that last one (for connection flexibility)

Parts Express
	

ayton RCAY-FMM RCA Y Cable 1 F To 2 M


 Hope that helps Steph 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.

 PS I didn't put the smilies in the links...the page did...too funny


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello all, where would be the best place to order this Zero Amp?_

 

Go to eBay insert "Zero DAC" in search section, when you locate the seller "biglawhk" you've landed on Lawrence Chan's store front.

 Tell him your a head fi member to get the upgraded opamp deal from him.

 Peete.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Thanks Pricklely Peete I just gave him a Pm hopefully I get a response soon. I want to try out his Zero Dac and also what exactly is different in his upgraded opamp deal?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Head Fi members get OPA627AU and LT1364 opamps pre installed. No need to opamp swap unless you want to. The original opamps leave quite a bit to be desired as far as SQ goes...(OPA2604 and N5532...).

 That's pretty much it, other than the oft mentioned HDAM and Alps pot options at time of purchase (or purchase later if your inclined to wait or are perfectly happy with the stock Head Fi model). The Alps pot upgrade is 10 dollars more and the HDAM is 80.

 That's the entire picture. 

 Peete.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Well I read your mini review on the HDAM but I don't remember reading if you think its worth the price for the performance increase. Do you think its worth the upgrade for the extra 90 dollars? Your review did want me to get the alps pot upgrade and the HDAm upgrades but I just want to make sure that its worth it.


----------



## Oya?

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The volume pots Lawrence is selling (if he has any left) are NOS units. The metal face plate is completely different than the new ones in that link. The worry, is the space for it to fit in. If you go back and look at the pics I took, you'll see a cap right up against the right (back) side of the pot. I wish someone would strip down one of the new pots and try to get it to fit in that space. If it worked, that would be great, however, from the measurements shown in the newer pot pics, it doesn't look promising. I've done two of these pot upgrades and both were a tight fit, but they work. For $10, it's a bargain for those ordering a new Zero IMHO._

 

Thank you for the info. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I probably should check if he has any left; better buy one now even if I don't plan to install it right away.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The ground wire (on the HDAM) is an extra, if you have hum, then connect to nearest pcb ground point, if you don't have hum don't connect it...that's it._

 

Thanks! It was bothering me because I just wanted to plug and play. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (I don't have a soldering iron)

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Isn't it refreshing to have the ear of the actual manufacturer of a product you wish to buy or already own, supporting his customers as configuration and upgrades filter back to said manufacturer from end users and vice versa.

 As far as profiteering is concerned, most of the upgrades have free accessories, hardly profitable for Lawrence. He didn't have to make an HDAM jumper did he....looks like it's going to be offered free of charge to those that have bought an HDAM from him. Where's the profit in that ? He offers a deal to head fi members (upgraded opamps) at the same price including shipping that the earlier version sold for. Where's the profit in that ? I'd gladly give him 10 bucks for that harness, it takes time to build, time is money is is not ?
 Yep, I'm suspicious of Lawrence's evil grand plan alright 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ._

 

I was going to inquire about making a soft adapter after I bought the HDAM, so I was really, really surprised when he was willing to include an adapter. I imagine that others have inquired about it as well, or he's looked into it himself. Which just shows that he cares.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

My conclusion was an unequivocal "Yes" towards the HDAM being worth the coin. The Alps for 10 is a no brainer...I don't use the headphone amp on my Zero so I didn't bother with that as stated in the review (although it was tested).

 Hope that helps clear things up a little 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Agreed OYA !! He does care, which is great in this day and age 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just shrunk wrap that extra wire (doubled up) with some 1/8 in red 3 to 1 shrink wrap. Looks like a tail 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.

 PS I have to pop out to the store...I'll be back in 30 minutes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Rode the bike...2 mile round trip in less that 5 minutes ...not bad for an old fart


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Alright that makes my choice even easier. As soon as I get a respond from Lawrence I will purchase it with the HDAM and the Alps. Thanks Pricklely Peete! Sorry for the questions its just that I am new to Head-Fi so I got plenty of amateur questions.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

No problem Bullet...glad to help. Make sure you ask for the HDAM extension harness when you order 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Peete.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Oh yea I forgot about that thanks. hopefully by tomorrow he replies to me. So what exactly should I order? Zero Dac with HDAM and Alps and the HDAM extension harness correct?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Yep, sounds good. Mention Head Fi member deal if I haven't already said so....the harness comes free ( I think, not 100% sure of that yet) with the HDAM purchase. This is a brand new item so it may be sent later on....Lawrence will give you the details pretty soon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I forgot to ask, Bullet...what cans and source are you planning on using with the Zero ?

 Peete.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Well right now I just have some Sr60's but my next purchase is going to be k701's or d2000's. I am new to these head-fi stuff but I am already addicted...as a source I have a Zune, Ipod, and PC(ac-1 sound card).


----------



## Oya?

I just emailed Lawrence and he is indeed out of ALPS pots; says he'll try to get more. If he can't, finding an alternative is going to be quite a pain.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Just got the same news. He is out of HDAMS out too... so I don't know if I should still get this amp.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Well that's up to you Bullet, ask Lawrence when he thinks he can ship the whole package that you would like. It's most likely not a long wait.

 IMHO it's worth waiting for since the SQ and price are hard to beat. 

 Peete.

 PS I'm hitting the sack, Jack....


----------



## windrider

Anyone of you run a tube amp placed on top of the zero? am wondering if both or either could somehow be damaged by the heat...


----------



## ianp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It appears the cable will be included with the HDAM, but I don't have clarification of this yet. I'm waiting for his reply on this. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I ordered an HDAM last week and asked about the possibility of Lawrence making/supplying an extension cable. I got an email on saturday indicating the cable was available and with the 2 photos posted here. There was no additional charge for the cable, it was simply included in the $80 shipped price tag for the HDAM which is pretty damn good of him and reinforces the fact that he is a good guy to do business with.

 When people order HDAMs from Lawrence they should probably explicitly mention the extension cable just to be on the safe side.


----------



## matrix200

A question to ZERO owners.
 I am considering getting one and hooking it up to my soundcards' spdif out.
 Has anyone tried such a combo and can say what kind of quality I can expect?
 Will I need any additional parts for the setup (optical cable , spdif/optical adapter etc)?


----------



## richierich

If your sound card already has spdif out then you just use the supplied optical cable and plug that into the optical input of the Zero DAC. No additional parts needed.


----------



## matrix200

The Audigy 2 ZS has 3.5" spdif out I think.
 I guess I will only need 3.5" to toslink then right?


----------



## richierich

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *matrix200* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Audigy 2 ZS has 3.5" spdif out I think.
 I guess I will only need 3.5" to toslink then right?_

 

I'm confused. Is your spdif digital coax? Or is it optical?


----------



## Steph86

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_1 male RCA to 2 female RCA per channel Y-adapter's am I correct Steph ?

 Here's a link to a parts supplier in the USA that has what your looking for, well built and for reasonable cost....two versions to choose from...

 first up

Parts Express:Gold RCA Y (1) Male To (2) Right Angle Female Black

 Second, a traditional Y splitter

Parts Express
	

ayton RCAY-MFF RCA Y Cable 1 M To 2 F

 and the inverse of that last one (for connection flexibility)

Parts Express
	

ayton RCAY-FMM RCA Y Cable 1 F To 2 M


 Hope that helps Steph 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.

 PS I didn't put the smilies in the links...the page did...too funny 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Cheers Peete

 That was exactly what I was looking for.

 Thanks
 Steph


----------



## matrix200

Hmm I am not sure.
 I think it can be both but it probably will require this thing :
Sound Blaster Digital I/O Module - Add optical and coaxial digital I/O to your Sound Blaster equipped PC.


----------



## Brestinder

I just ordered upgraded zero, so sad Lawrence have no more better pod's , i think i can live withnout it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i will use it with my pc. Audigy 4 spdif + coaxial cable. + Aurvana live with grado cable and hd 25.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *matrix200* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm I am not sure.
 I think it can be both but it probably will require this thing :
Sound Blaster Digital I/O Module - Add optical and coaxial digital I/O to your Sound Blaster equipped PC._

 

If yours is the flexi-jack, you need a "mono" 3.5 mini to RCA adapter and a good coaxial cable. Radio Shake has these.

 If your's has optical out of a 3.5, there is a small plastic (usually) toslink adapter, that has the optical female end and a 3.5" mini plug end. They are cheapo for sure, but work great. Do a search for toslink adapter or check your local Radio Shake. Mine came with a cable I bought years ago at Walmart.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *windrider* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone of you run a tube amp placed on top of the zero? am wondering if both or either could somehow be damaged by the heat..._

 

I put my MKV on top of the ZERO and it got very warm from the heat.. Since I'd got my arrangement annoyingly perfectly, I just put a slow 120mm fan next to them and all is now fine.

 I'm glad to find now that Lawrence is selling a good quality extension cable with the HDAM. That makes it a definitely upgrade for me.


----------



## matrix200

Like that?
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...40109&p_id=680


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *matrix200* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Like that?
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...40109&p_id=680_

 

Yep. That looks very close to the one I used on my flexi-jack.


----------



## Stram

Hi guys. 

 I've been enjoying my stock Zero for a while and bought some opamps from Lawrence. I have never messed about inside electrical equipment before and maybe should have read up here but I was so eager and it looked easy I proceeded to swap out the opamps. All looked well and when powering on I got a loud pop from the headphones and them smoke started coming out the vents and I s**t a brick. Guess I messed up somewhere. Would putting them in the wrong way do this and if so would it be now beyond repair. Could anybody think of something I did wrong. 

 Luckily I tried with my HD555s first and not my 650s and noticed lots of hiss when usually it was clean and then the smoke. Swtiched it off and tried again after trying to push the opamps in more as I'm stupid and the sound was washy from left to right and going off when changing the volume. Then I stopped. 
 Cheers,
 Ste


----------



## ciphercomplete

A little off topic. I had a email conversation with Lawrence when I was buying my HDAM. Long story short I asked him whether or not he sold Audio Technica headphones specifically the ATH-AD1000 and the ATH-AD2000. He said he did and then he quoted me $310 and $550 respectively both brand spanking new. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Just a heads up for Audio Technica fans such as myself because those are some stellar prices particularly for the ad2000.


----------



## magnetiq

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Stram* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys. 

 I've been enjoying my stock Zero for a while and bought some opamps from Lawrence. I have never messed about inside electrical equipment before and maybe should have read up here but I was so eager and it looked easy I proceeded to swap out the opamps. All looked well and when powering on I got a loud pop from the headphones and them smoke started coming out the vents and I s**t a brick. Guess I messed up somewhere. Would putting them in the wrong way do this and if so would it be now beyond repair. Could anybody think of something I did wrong. 

 Luckily I tried with my HD555s first and not my 650s and noticed lots of hiss when usually it was clean and then the smoke. Swtiched it off and tried again after trying to push the opamps in more as I'm stupid and the sound was washy from left to right and going off when changing the volume. Then I stopped. 
 Cheers,
 Ste_

 

yeah i think you put them in wrong way round, it happened to me too but nothing happened, it still runs fine so you should be ok.


----------



## Stram

It appears I put them all in the right way by fluke with the half circle on the chip in the right direction. I since left the 2 LT1364s in the headphone section and put the original DAC one back in and it works perfect. Its the new OPA627AU that won't work. Still worried about the smoke but it's on now and sounds pretty awesome.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Stram* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It appears I put them all in the right way by fluke with the half circle on the chip in the right direction. I since left the 2 LT1364s in the headphone section and put the original DAC one back in and it works perfect. Its the new OPA627AU that won't work. Still worried about the smoke but it's on now and sounds pretty awesome._

 

Bummer! It is possible the 627's fried (they would smoke under certain conditions). Must have been defective. Email the seller and see if you can get a replacement sent out.


----------



## Stram

Thanks. You live and learn. I think I initially put them all in the wrong way round but only the 627s fried. That obviously was the smoke I saw from the vent. Luckily the 1364s still are OK. The next ones I will put in right!! hehe

 Question. If the 2 LT1364s for the headphone section work great and I only ever use the headphones do I need a replacement 627 in the DAC section. I mean will the headphones sound any different than now with the original opamp or do you need the combination of both to get great sound even if never using the output of the amp?


----------



## tranhieu

Hi. I've followed this thread for more than 10 pages, but I couldn't find out how to connect my laptop with the zero. I asked some people and these are what I can do:
 -buy a usb -> spdif adapter, haven't found this stuff yet
 -buy a s-video -> rca adapter, this will provide a spdif audio output. this one will cost me around 15$

 so is there any way else that can help me connect the zero with my laptop?

 and comparing with the emu 0202, which one is better? the zero or the emu?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Stram* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks. You live and learn. I think I initially put them all in the wrong way round but only the 627s fried. That obviously was the smoke I saw from the vent. Luckily the 1364s still are OK. The next ones I will put in right!! hehe

 Question. If the 2 LT1364s for the headphone section work great and I only ever use the headphones do I need a replacement 627 in the DAC section. I mean will the headphones sound any different than now with the original opamp or do you need the combination of both to get great sound even if never using the output of the amp?_

 

The opamp in the DAC section (2604/627 etc) has a direct bearing on the final sonic qualities of the headphone amp output. The whole package is interdependent. You can easily test that axiom by listening with the 2604 (stock DAC chip) and with the new set of 627's when they arrive (through the LT1364 equipped head amp section). You'll notice quite a change between the two. Give the opamps time to settle before comparison. 

 Peete.

 PS Sorry to hear of the smokey mishap (it happens from time to time), that's one god awful stink isn't it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 I had a big toroid transformer in a massive SS amp burn up on me a few years back, the house stunk for three days (had to happen during a heat wave to boot so no windows could be opened because of the AC) !!!!


----------



## Clok

Hello.
 Im having hard time getting sound from the dac.
 I have X-fi xtrememusic and the i/o module.
 I think I have tried all possible inputs. What is the right route from soundcard to headphones? I am using the stock optical cable.
 Also creative drivers are killing me, do I need change any settings?
 Thanks.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clok* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello.
 Im having hard time getting sound from the dac.
 I have X-fi xtrememusic and the i/o module.
 I think I have tried all possible inputs. What is the right route from soundcard to headphones? I am using the stock optical cable.
 Also creative drivers are killing me, do I need change any settings?
 Thanks._

 

I have a similar setup. Did you already do the following?

 Control Panel-->Sounds and Audio Devices
 In the "Device Volume" section hit the "Advanced" button.
 The Playback/Volume master controls should pop up. Hit the "advanced" tab under the "Playback" section.
 At the bottom of this next pop up window there should be a "Other control" section. Click the box that says "Digital Output Only".


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tranhieu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi. I've followed this thread for more than 10 pages, but I couldn't find out how to connect my laptop with the zero. I asked some people and these are what I can do:
 -buy a usb -> spdif adapter, haven't found this stuff yet
 -buy a s-video -> rca adapter, this will provide a spdif audio output. this one will cost me around 15$

 so is there any way else that can help me connect the zero with my laptop?

 and comparing with the emu 0202, which one is better? the zero or the emu?_

 

What SC do you have for the laptop ? To know that will help immensely 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The emu202 is ok but the Zero is far better across the board for sound quality. I have an Auzen Prelude SC in my desktop, it's no slouch but the Zero just kills it....FWIW

 Peete.


----------



## tranhieu

what's the SC? sorry but I'm new here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 about the audio output on my laptop, I can only think of the hp out, s-video, and usb.
 does this help?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tranhieu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_what's the SC? sorry but I'm new here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 about the audio output on my laptop, I can only think of the hp out, s-video, and usb.
 does this help?_

 

SC is simply short form for sound card (as outboard or pmcia or some such like that) The headphone out is not going to cut it...USB to SPDIF converter is what you need to get the most from the Zero and your laptop if I understand what you have.

 Can you post the brand and model of laptop...I'll look it up and give it the once over so to speak online and get back to you ASAP.

 Peete.


----------



## tranhieu

mine is dell vostro 1500. 
 my sc is the sigmatel card. but currently i'm using the xmod.
 can you suggest any site that has that usb-spdif converter for cheap price? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Thanks a lot!


----------



## richierich

tranhieu, this is the seller who I bought my Zero DAC from:

ZERO 24/192 DAC DA CONVERTOR, HEAD AMP(Upgrade Version) - eBay (item 110271256457 end time Aug-14-08 21:00:41 PDT)

 I got the upgraded version shown, and it came with the usb-spdif converter.


----------



## tranhieu

is that converted included in the price? or you have to pay more?
 and what's the difference between the 'original' & upgraded version?
 what about this one, is it different? coz the price's so unreasonable compared to your link
http://cgi.ebay.com/ZERO-NEW-24BIT-1...QQcmdZViewItem
 thanks


----------



## Oya?

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tranhieu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_is that converted included in the price? or you have to pay more?
 and what's the difference between the 'original' & upgraded version?
 what about this one, is it different? coz the price's so unreasonable compared to your link
ZERO NEW 24BIT 192KHZ DAC +HEAD PHONE AMP+USB pc link - eBay (item 140249477978 end time Jul-19-08 03:26:45 PDT)
 thanks_

 

Note the shipping cost of the Zero from this second seller (nearly 80USD); the total price is actually pretty much the same as the other sellers. I imagine this is to devalue the item for customs, although you might run into trouble with insurance if it gets lost in transit.


----------



## Nugwin

Sorry for the noobiness, but how do I get the signal from my computer to the Zero? I don't have any line outs, or digital outs...just the standard 3.5mm outputs I've been plugging my headphones into. Thanks for the help guys.


----------



## andychen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nugwin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry for the noobiness, but how do I get the signal from my computer to the Zero? I don't have any line outs, or digital outs...just the standard 3.5mm outputs I've been plugging my headphones into. Thanks for the help guys._

 

you can buy a USB to SPDIF adapter.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tranhieu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_mine is dell vostro 1500. 
 my sc is the sigmatel card. but currently i'm using the xmod.
 can you suggest any site that has that usb-spdif converter for cheap price? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Thanks a lot!_

 

After checking out the SC and xmod.... conclusion is buy a USB ----> SPDIF converter


 You can get those USB --> SPDIF converters all over the place, google it and pick one within your area of the world to buy and have shipped. No sense getting something half way around the world when it can be had around the corner (so to speak...50 miles vs 5000)...if you know what I mean 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Nugwin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *andychen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you can buy a USB to SPDIF adapter._

 

So like one of these?

Behringer U-Control UCA202 Ultra Low-Llatency 2 In/2 Out USB/Audio Interface and USB to S/PDIF Converter beh-uca202 Provideosound.com

 Then would I have to buy high end interconnects and what not to connect them to the Zero?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nugwin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So like one of these?

Behringer U-Control UCA202 Ultra Low-Llatency 2 In/2 Out USB/Audio Interface and USB to S/PDIF Converter beh-uca202 Provideosound.com

 Then would I have to buy high end interconnects and what not to connect them to the Zero?_

 


 That'll do the job.....it's cheaper from partsexpress.com You can also get well made cables for a decent price from the same guys. Look for the Dayton brand...very good cables.

 Here's a link to the same USB device...

Parts Express:Behringer UCA202 2-In/2-Out USB/Audio Interface S/PDIF Out

 Peete.


----------



## dexter3d

Hi guys,

 I am considering buying ZERO. It seems that that seller on ebay biglawhk
 does not have those anymore listed in his shop, what do you think of other
 sellers? Like this one from wsz0304 is $128+43:
ZERO 24/192 DAC DA CONVERTOR, HEAD AMP(Upgrade Version) - eBay (item 110271256457 end time Aug-14-08 21:00:41 PDT)

 Is it a good price for this thing and is this a better upgraded version?

 Thanks!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dexter3d* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys,

 I am considering buying ZERO. It seems that that seller on ebay biglawhk
 does not have those anymore listed in his shop, what do you think of other
 sellers? Like this one from wsz0304 is $128+43:
ZERO 24/192 DAC DA CONVERTOR, HEAD AMP(Upgrade Version) - eBay (item 110271256457 end time Aug-14-08 21:00:41 PDT)

 Is it a good price for this thing and is this a better upgraded version?

 Thanks!_

 

That's an okay price. The ad only mentions the one opamp (being upgraded) in the DAC section, specifically 2604 upgraded to 627. The headphone section has two more opamps. Lawrence sells his with all opamps upgraded (OPA627/DAC section & 2 x LT1364 in H/Amp section) for the members of Head Fi. I guess Lawrence is experiencing a rather massive surge in sales of both the (upgraded opamp combo) Zero and the HDAM modules.

 I would email this vendor (wsz0304) and ask what opamps are in the headphone section, if he says N5532 then this offer isn't as attractive as Lawrence's package deal is (IMHO at least). It might be worth emailing Lawrence to inquire when more Head Fi member Zero deals will be available again.

 Just my 2 cents FWIW.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Can someone do me a huge favor and take a good resolution pic of the main pcb (whole thing without removal from chassis) from a top down perspective as in straight on from overhead. At least 640 x 480 pixels would suffice. I'd really really appreciate that please 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 tga or jpeg format in a Zip and pm me or post here and I'll grab it. Either is fine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks in advance gents !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Come on guys........I need it pretty quickly for a project .....pretty please.....I don't have a digital camera, just an old 35 MM film jobbie which is no good for this type of thing (no close up lens either) so.......

 Peete.


----------



## Oya?




----------



## Pricklely Peete

Your a peach OYA....thanks a million !!!!!!!! Excellent , just what I require !!! and the H/AMP pcb as a bonus 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll return the favor in kind 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Oya?

No problem Prickly. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hope whatever you're doing turns out.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your a peach OYA....thanks a million !!!!!!!! Excellent , just what I require !!! and the H/AMP pcb as a bonus 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll return the favor in kind 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._


----------



## NumpXP

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's an okay price. The ad only mentions the one opamp (being upgraded) in the DAC section, specifically 2604 upgraded to 627. The headphone section has two more opamps. Lawrence sells his with all opamps upgraded (OPA627/DAC section & 2 x LT1364 in H/Amp section) for the members of Head Fi. I guess Lawrence is experiencing a rather massive surge in sales of both the (upgraded opamp combo) Zero and the HDAM modules.

 I would email this vendor (wsz0304) and ask what opamps are in the headphone section, if he says N5532 then this offer isn't as attractive as Lawrence's package deal is (IMHO at least). It might be worth emailing Lawrence to inquire when more Head Fi member Zero deals will be available again.

 Just my 2 cents FWIW.

 Peete._

 

where can i reach Lawrence?


----------



## Oya?

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *NumpXP* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_where can i reach Lawrence?_

 

You can look him up on eBay, ID *biglawhk*. His email is *lawrencechanbig(@)**msn(.)com*


----------



## Oublie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oya?* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can look him up on eBay, ID *biglawhk*. His email is *lawrencechanbig(@)**msn(.)com*



_

 

Is Lawrence quick at answering emails? I received mine with a fault and have emailed him 3 days ago but no reply yet.


----------



## Oya?

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oublie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is Lawrence quick at answering emails? I received mine with a fault and have emailed him 3 days ago but no reply yet._

 

I haven't personally had any problems with exchanging communications with Lawrence (he always replies within a day). It might pay to shoot him another email; he might've missed it.


----------



## Oublie

Thanks Oya?.

 I didn't want to be pushy but i'll send him another one in case he missed it.


----------



## tranhieu

Don't know if anyone's asked this but how is the zero compared to the emu0404?


----------



## Summer Jazz

Hi all,
 I have just registered & this is my first post. I wanted to purchase a DAC & I came across this forum discussing about the Zero DAC. The price seems attractive & there is an upgraded version. This is where I have some questions & I hope somebody can help me out. 
 1) The upgrade version is using the OPA627. I have checked the data sheet, though both (OPA627 & OPA2604 for the earlier model) have 8 pins but the pin configuration seems different. So I believe is not just plug & play, there must be some modification done in order to take in OPA627, am I right? 
 2) If that’s the case, what other better op-amp can be used on the upgrade version Zero without having to do any modification (that is just plug & play)? 
 3) How is the Zero DAC chip AD1852 compared to CS4397 used in the 24bit/192KHz DAC DIY KIT, FULL ASSEMBLED KIT? 
 4) The upgraded version also have a ALPS knob, any idea what’s that? Any benefit?
 5) Lastly, anyone use the Zero DAC with Oppo universal player (model 970HD)? If yes, is the 2-channel sound much better? 
 Thanks!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Hi Summer Jazz, I can't answer all of those questions but most of that can be answered by reading tha last 15 to 20 pages of the thread. The info provided covers the latest news and packages. I'm really busy right now otherwise I'd give you more info right now....anyway...read those 20 pages or so then ask any questions that weren't answered afterwards please 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The oppo is a good transport.....better than most it would seem form the press clippings 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BBL, have to get back to work 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oublie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is Lawrence quick at answering emails? I received mine with a fault and have emailed him 3 days ago but no reply yet._

 

He's pretty quick. I talked with him breifly last night/this morning and he's been extremely busy trying to get more Zero's and HDAM's built to meet the large demand of late. 

 He'll answer you, not to worry. Poor bugger needs 28 hours in a day instead of 24 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Oya?

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Summer Jazz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi all,
 I have just registered & this is my first post. I wanted to purchase a DAC & I came across this forum discussing about the Zero DAC. The price seems attractive & there is an upgraded version. This is where I have some questions & I hope somebody can help me out. 
 1) The upgrade version is using the OPA627. I have checked the data sheet, though both (OPA627 & OPA2604 for the earlier model) have 8 pins but the pin configuration seems different. So I believe is not just plug & play, there must be some modification done in order to take in OPA627, am I right? 
 2) If that’s the case, what other better op-amp can be used on the upgrade version Zero without having to do any modification (that is just plug & play)? 
 3) How is the Zero DAC chip AD1852 compared to CS4397 used in the 24bit/192KHz DAC DIY KIT, FULL ASSEMBLED KIT? 
 4) The upgraded version also have a ALPS knob, any idea what’s that? Any benefit?
 5) Lastly, anyone use the Zero DAC with Oppo universal player (model 970HD)? If yes, is the 2-channel sound much better? 
 Thanks!_

 

Hi and welcome. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There's 2 common kinds of OPA627s, for the OPA627BP you'll need 2 of them on an adapter. Then there's the OPA627AU for which you'd also need 2 mounted on a different kind of adapter. This latter combo is what Lawrence sells, have a look at it here. The reason for the adapter is because OPA2604 is a dual op-amp and OPA627 is a mono op-amp. Either of the above combinations are plug-and-play. If you're planning to buy an upgraded Zero with OPA627s, they should already be installed.


----------



## ianp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ianp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered an HDAM last week and asked about the possibility of Lawrence making/supplying an extension cable. I got an email on saturday indicating the cable was available and with the 2 photos posted here. There was no additional charge for the cable, it was simply included in the $80 shipped price tag for the HDAM which is pretty damn good of him and reinforces the fact that he is a good guy to do business with.

 When people order HDAMs from Lawrence they should probably explicitly mention the extension cable just to be on the safe side._

 

Well, the HDAM arrived this morning and has been dropped into a Zero DAC (with LED and bypass Cap mods) and I'm currently listening to NICK CAVE B-SIDES & RARITIES. Initial thoughts are that there is some more headroom and detail, but it is a little shrill. I'll give it some time burning in before making final judgment.


----------



## lucius72

Hi all,
 I have just registered & this is my first post.I've received my Zero dac a week ago and after the burn in period the sound from the right channel seems to fade away like there might be a cold joint.It always happens after a while when the inside reaches a certain temperature.Does anyone knows where should I look at first ? I can use my soldering iron to reheat some of the joints but I can't do that for every single one of them.Many thanks in advance.


----------



## spickerish

Sorry for the newb question, but does the zero have a usb in?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *spickerish* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry for the newb question, but does the zero have a usb in?_

 

Nope 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lucius72* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi all,
 I have just registered & this is my first post.I've received my Zero dac a week ago and after the burn in period the sound from the right channel seems to fade away like there might be a cold joint.It always happens after a while when the inside reaches a certain temperature.Does anyone knows where should I look at first ? I can use my soldering iron to reheat some of the joints but I can't do that for every single one of them.Many thanks in advance._

 

Does it happen on the headphone amp's output and/or the analog outs on the back ? Try testing it as a pure DAC , then with the Headphone amp engaged.
 Could be a cold solder joint somewhere or a bad opamp.....need to narrow it down to either main pcb or head amp pcb...the latter being far easier to troubleshoot 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Report back please.....

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ianp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, the HDAM arrived this morning and has been dropped into a Zero DAC (with LED and bypass Cap mods) and I'm currently listening to NICK CAVE B-SIDES & RARITIES. Initial thoughts are that there is some more headroom and detail, but it is a little shrill. I'll give it some time burning in before making final judgment._

 

Oops I thought you had done the HDAM cap tweak...sorry....go back to original program, people 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The HDAM itself, I have found takes anywhere from 50 to 75 hours to give it's best. It's a bit odd sounding at first, as you have noted. It will get way way better as the hours and days pass.

 Peete.


----------



## Emanuel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oops I thought you had done the HDAM cap tweak...sorry....go back to original program, people 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The HDAM itself, I have found takes anywhere from 50 to 75 hours to give it's best. It's a bit odd sounding at first, as you have noted. It will get way way better as the hours and days pass.

 Peete._

 

But is this scientific? It is related to some electric components which get better with time? Because I think its pretty difficult to say that after 50 hours the sound change, because you get pretty familiar with the sound for example, or maybe you get up in a pretty good mood one morning, turn up your dac and shout "DAMN! This is the best sound I ever had!" or something similar. Part of the trick is even on your mind , every time you listen to the music you must pay an attention that is variable with your psychophysical conditions (it sound a little nerd, I know) I dont know the truth, only asking 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I suppose that a trained hear can do that in the end


----------



## Currawong

Emanuel, this thread isn't the place to debate whether or not burn-in is real or not. Please don't crap this thread by starting such a debate. Pete is just stating his opinion. 

 [size=xx-small]And before you go getting "scientific" on people, recall that scientists use to think the world was flat, doctors that washing their hands was unnecessary, Einstein's theories explained everything and that people can't sleep standing up.[/size]


----------



## lucius72

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does it happen on the headphone amp's output and/or the analog outs on the back ? Try testing it as a pure DAC , then with the Headphone amp engaged.
 Could be a cold solder joint somewhere or a bad opamp.....need to narrow it down to either main pcb or head amp pcb...the latter being far easier to troubleshoot 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Report back please.....

 Peete._

 


 Hi Peete.Thanks for your reply.It seems that the main pcb might be the cause.When I'm pushing the preamp button nothing changes.Do you think that it could be even the op amp?If I remove the main pcb should I have a look at the joints as well?Thanks


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lucius72* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Peete.Thanks for your reply.It seems that the main pcb might be the cause.When I'm pushing the preamp button nothing changes.Do you think that it could be even the op amp?If I remove the main pcb should I have a look at the joints as well?Thanks_

 

Try re inserting or re seating the opamps. If that doesn't work...pop out the 2604 in the dac section and try another dual channel opamp in it's place. A LT1364 or LT1028, any dual channel with similar specs to the BB OPA2604/LT stuff. If you have a spare N5532 sitting around that might work. Try that and see where we get.....

 Report back please 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## P_1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tranhieu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't know if anyone's asked this but how is the zero compared to the emu0404?_

 

I'm also interested to hear what people have to say about this.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Anyone have a 0404 and Zero to do a blow by blow ?

 Peete.


----------



## pete~

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Last month, when both sellers were up on eBay, they were identical units. Now, hummm, maybe one of these guys getting ready to purchase wouldn't mind asking the seller if they've been upgraded? You thinking about one?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Can you tell me what this issue about the transformer is? 

 as I understand it, the only 'upgrade' is that it can accept different voltages? 

 or is there something else going on? 

 besides how are we to know whether the unit will be a newer upgraded one or not? 


 I am considering getting the dac but i need to sort this issue out...


 thanks


----------



## pete~

also i am NOT going to use this with headphones but with my amp and speaker.

 Does this 'nullify' the positive comments wihch have been made about the unit given that it was tested with headphones?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_also i am NOT going to use this with headphones but with my amp and speaker.

 Does this 'nullify' the positive comments wihch have been made about the unit given that it was tested with headphones?_

 

No, in fact it's better when used this way. The Headphone amp was just an add on bonus and it's pretty good for what it does in a pinch. I'm using mine as another source to my main rig at the moment, granted it has the HDAM and other mods but it sounds very nice when used strictly as a DAC.

 Peete.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_snip...LT1028...snip_

 

Just to clarify, LT1028 is a single op-amp.


----------



## pete~

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, in fact it's better when used this way. The Headphone amp was just an add on bonus and it's pretty good for what it does in a pinch. I'm using mine as another source to my main rig at the moment, granted it has the HDAM and other mods but it sounds very nice when used strictly as a DAC.

 Peete._

 

so can you help me with my query as to whether the transformer is different?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so can you help me with my query as to whether the transformer is different?_

 

Back at the time of the review, you had to specify which voltage you needed and they would make sure you got a Zero to match. Then, the Zero was upgraded to include worldwide voltage requirements. At that same time, there were some cap changes on the main board, but this didn't result in changes to the overall sound quality.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ianp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, the HDAM arrived this morning and has been dropped into a Zero DAC (with LED and bypass Cap mods) and I'm currently listening to NICK CAVE B-SIDES & RARITIES. Initial thoughts are that there is some more headroom and detail, but it is a little shrill. I'll give it some time burning in before making final judgment._

 

Hi Ianp,

 I've been maturing my HDAM and it took 85 hours before I could verify it was stable and done changing. PP is right, it really does change drastically. I have been listening in about every 8 hours to monitor it's progress, so it wasn't an issue of me getting used to the HDAM. Hang in there and keep us informed!


----------



## Tapiozona

Newbie here. I'm looking for my first desktop amp and have read a lot about the Zero DAC and I'm on the verge of buying. Before I do though I have a few questions..

 1) Why exactly do I need a DAC? I know the basics of what one is from wikipedia but it seems that my sources already have one. (computer or zune) So why have a DAC that the PC uses go into the DAC that the amp uses? I figured I'd just need an amp and let the pc and zune convert the digital signal to analog.


 2) Everyone recommends buying from Lawrence because of his customer service and upgrades. I see he has one auctions on ebay right now but from the looks of the auction, it's not the fully upgraded Zero...
ZERO 24/192 DAC D A CONVERTOR , HEAD FI AMP , BRAND NEW - eBay (item 230272685162 end time Jul-25-08 01:30:19 PDT)

 It still has the 2604 op amp instead of the 627. (I really have no idea what this means other than the 627 is newer and better). 

 For 10 dollars less I can get this...
ZERO 24/192 DAC DA CONVERTOR, HEAD AMP(Upgrade Version) - eBay (item 110271256457 end time Aug-14-08 21:00:41 PDT)
 Which has the upgraded 627 opamp. Is the only thing I'm looking for the 627 opamp? Both sellers have good feedback but lawrence has the added benefit of head-fi's blessing so I'd like to use him. But if I'm paying more for less I don't see a reason for that.

 Lastly, I've read that you can also upgrade parts of the amp itself rather than the DAC. the LT1364 seems to be the most upgraded version of whatever it is. I can't tell if any of the ebay Zero's have that since none of them make mention but I've read multiple posts here talking about it.

 I did come across an amp that uses the Opamp 2604 but has the upgraded LT1364. Would I get a better sounding product with that or with the opamp 627 and a non-upgraded amp section?

 Thanks and sorry for my extreme newbienes. This is all really japanese to me still even after tons of reading.


----------



## Enthusia

Quote:


 *This is all really japanese to me still even after tons of reading* 
 

What is that suppose to mean?


----------



## Tapiozona

It means I'm confused. Just as I would be trying to read japanese


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tapiozona* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Newbie here. I'm looking for my first desktop amp and have read a lot about the Zero DAC and I'm on the verge of buying. Before I do though I have a few questions..

 1) Why exactly do I need a DAC? I know the basics of what one is from wikipedia but it seems that my sources already have one. (computer or zune) So why have a DAC that the PC uses go into the DAC that the amp uses? I figured I'd just need an amp and let the pc and zune convert the digital signal to analog.


 2) Everyone recommends buying from Lawrence because of his customer service and upgrades. I see he has one auctions on ebay right now but from the looks of the auction, it's not the fully upgraded Zero...
ZERO 24/192 DAC D A CONVERTOR , HEAD FI AMP , BRAND NEW - eBay (item 230272685162 end time Jul-25-08 01:30:19 PDT)

 It still has the 2604 op amp instead of the 627. (I really have no idea what this means other than the 627 is newer and better). 

 For 10 dollars less I can get this...
ZERO 24/192 DAC DA CONVERTOR, HEAD AMP(Upgrade Version) - eBay (item 110271256457 end time Aug-14-08 21:00:41 PDT)
 Which has the upgraded 627 opamp. Is the only thing I'm looking for the 627 opamp? Both sellers have good feedback but lawrence has the added benefit of head-fi's blessing so I'd like to use him. But if I'm paying more for less I don't see a reason for that.

 Lastly, I've read that you can also upgrade parts of the amp itself rather than the DAC. the LT1364 seems to be the most upgraded version of whatever it is. I can't tell if any of the ebay Zero's have that since none of them make mention but I've read multiple posts here talking about it.

 I did come across an amp that uses the Opamp 2604 but has the upgraded LT1364. Would I get a better sounding product with that or with the opamp 627 and a non-upgraded amp section?

 Thanks and sorry for my extreme newbienes. This is all really japanese to me still even after tons of reading._

 

Ok, I'll take a stab at this one... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 1. Because the DAC in your other goodies are substandard by comparison. Getting the Zero with the "HeadFi member" upgrade option (for free) from Lawrence, will get you up and running with better SQ the quickest. MANY folks here have done this exact upgrade the hard way (before the deal) and love it. Lawrence is just being nice and helping everyone at HeadFi out with a deal.

 2. Email Lawrence directly and tell him you want the "HeadFi Member" Opamp upgrades, and he'll send you a PayPal payment thingy, so you can make the purchase. He's not posting the "HeadFi Member" deal on eBay, to prevent confusion with other eBay shoppers.

 3. The "HeadFi Member" deal from Lawrence includes the upgraded Opamp's for the DAC section (OPA627AU's X2 on adapter) AND the upgraded Opamps for the headphone amp section (LT1364's X2).

 So, you won't have to go looking for Opamps in order to get the most from your Zero. All you will have to do is "mature" it for about 100 hours and enjoy the excellent sound.


----------



## Garret Jax

How does the Zero DAC stack up against the ZHAOLU D3 DAC?

Zero DAC ($179 shipped)

ZHAOLU D3 DAC ($284 shipped)

 I have no basis on which to compare them, and given that they are pretty close in price, I am not sure which to get.

 What does Head-Fi think?


----------



## Tapiozona

Awesome.
 I appreciate the response. I'll send him an email right after this. Would you by chance konw how much he sells the headfi member deal for with shipping to the US?
 Thanks


----------



## Garret Jax

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tapiozona* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Awesome.
 I appreciate the response. I'll send him an email right after this. Would you by chance konw how much he sells the headfi member deal for with shipping to the US?
 Thanks_

 

Yes, I wonder this as well. Can someone post it or if you're not supposed to post it, just PM it? Thanks!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tapiozona* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Awesome.
 I appreciate the response. I'll send him an email right after this. Would you by chance konw how much he sells the headfi member deal for with shipping to the US?
 Thanks_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Garret Jax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, I wonder this as well. Can someone post it or if you're not supposed to post it, just PM it? Thanks!_

 

I think it's $180 shipped. I know the "deal" was $139 so shipping is close to $40ish.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Garret Jax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How does the Zero DAC stack up against the ZHAOLU D3 DAC?

Zero DAC ($179 shipped)

ZHAOLU D3 DAC ($284 shipped)

 I have no basis on which to compare them, and given that they are pretty close in price, I am not sure which to get.

 What does Head-Fi think?_

 

$105 bucks is $105 bucks. More music, some cables or extra for the "headphones savings" account.


----------



## Garret Jax

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_$105 bucks is $105 bucks. More music, some cables or extra for the "headphones savings" account. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

My wife thanks you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 However, would you say the two DACs are about equal in quality, or pretty close to it?


----------



## ciphercomplete

nm


----------



## Pricklely Peete

About as well built as you'll get for the money. Take apart a Name brand 100 buck cheapo DVD player and prepare to be shocked at how shoddy the workmanship is, and how crappy the parts selection is. Both the Zero and the D3 use hi quality parts with a reasonable build quality. I think the expectation for this budget gear with regards to build is a little unrealistic. That being said the Zero is well built for the paltry sum charged (all IMHO). I've seen worse for far more $$$$ *cough* Musical Fidelity X series *cough*.

 Peete.


----------



## Garret Jax

On the strength of this thread, I purchased the Head-Fi version of the Zero DAC from Chang Lawrence, along with Sennheiser HD-650's from J&R. Once I receive everything and burn it in, I'll post back here with my thoughts. 

 Thank you all for your help!!!
 -Garret


----------



## pete~

Zero DAC with HF Amp - AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums

 this thread about the zero dac is not so encouraging.

 I am actually uncertain now as to whether I should buy?


----------



## AudioPhewl

^Pete - you're being thrown by 2 comments on another forum, when the item has so many happy and glowing users on this one? The Zero DAC is very good indeed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And back on to the reason I came into this thread. Well, I ordered a second Zero DAC back a couple of weeks. Was going to try the "burned in" and "brand new" side by side before giving the new one to my brother for his birthday. Also looked on it as a good opportunity to get the upgraded ICs for mine, as well as a couple of SOIC->DIP adapters so I could play with opamps(I've got a pair of OPA827 here and was curious how they'd sound compared to the well-regarded 627...) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 Placed my order on 6th July, with the well-regarded Lawrence. Was told it would ship early that week... it didn't. It didn't ship until this Saturday just gone - 19th July. Updates were not forthcoming, though he did reply to my queries in a speedy manner. Not too impressed at the moment. I'd missed my brothers birthday(18th), so have given him mine.

 So far, I've had a much, much better experience with the eBay seller "snow48_6". The time between placing my order and receiving the goods was less than that of placing my order and Lawrence shipping the goods.

 Just a heads-up for all you potential purchasers. I know others have had good experiences, but at the moment mine has been less than glowing.

 Zero DAC rocks though! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## CountChoculaBot

From Shenzhen audio store, they shipped it the very next day. On top of that, their prices are cheaper.


----------



## AudioPhewl

^Be quiet, you... . I've already paid, it's currently in shipping... I don't want to know that I could have got it faster and cheaper elsewhere. I already know that... that's why I'm less than stunned with good feelings at the moment...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ~Phewl.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Zero DAC with HF Amp - AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums

 this thread about the zero dac is not so encouraging.

 I am actually uncertain now as to whether I should buy?_

 

Those post are back during the "upgraded" power supply time frame. There were more failures during that time period than any other time we have witnessed here. From late Dec to early Feb, they managed to isolate the faulty units and acquire good ones, and fix the few Zero's that made it out to customers. It was a very difficult time and Lawrence was the only seller who came out of it as a trusted seller. He took care of the individuals who got the bad transformers and didn't abandon them like some of the other sellers did.

 Since that time, we have enjoyed a very high success rate with the Zero's received by members. It was very reassuring to see the "whole picture" improve as quickly as it did, and continue on to present day. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 When it comes time for me to order my 3rd Zero, I will do it without hesitation, from a trusted seller like Lawrence. I wish I could do it right now, but the budget insists I wait a while.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Garret Jax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On the strength of this thread, I purchased the Head-Fi version of the Zero DAC from Chang Lawrence, along with Sennheiser HD-650's from J&R. Once I receive everything and burn it in, I'll post back here with my thoughts. 

 Thank you all for your help!!!
 -Garret_

 

Sorry I didn't get to your earlier post before now, I've had a rough morning in general. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think you'll be very pleased with your purchase. It is hard to assign a dollar value on the Opamp upgrades, but we know for a fact that the OPA627's with adapter were in the $30 range, plus shipping from where ever the seller was. I think this HeadFi deal also saves on time and effort too. Once you burn-in the Zero, you are good to go for a long time. That has to be worth something! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Let us know when your's arrives!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^Pete - you're being thrown by 2 comments on another forum, when the item has so many happy and glowing users on this one? The Zero DAC is very good indeed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And back on to the reason I came into this thread. Well, I ordered a second Zero DAC back a couple of weeks. Was going to try the "burned in" and "brand new" side by side before giving the new one to my brother for his birthday. Also looked on it as a good opportunity to get the upgraded ICs for mine, as well as a couple of SOIC->DIP adapters so I could play with opamps(I've got a pair of OPA827 here and was curious how they'd sound compared to the well-regarded 627...) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 Placed my order on 6th July, with the well-regarded Lawrence. Was told it would ship early that week... it didn't. It didn't ship until this Saturday just gone - 19th July. Updates were not forthcoming, though he did reply to my queries in a speedy manner. Not too impressed at the moment. I'd missed my brothers birthday(18th), so have given him mine.

 So far, I've had a much, much better experience with the eBay seller "snow48_6". The time between placing my order and receiving the goods was less than that of placing my order and Lawrence shipping the goods.

 Just a heads-up for all you potential purchasers. I know others have had good experiences, but at the moment mine has been less than glowing.

 Zero DAC rocks though! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 

Lawrence ran out of Zeros and HDAMs....he is working like mad to meet the increased demand from Head Fi'ers getting in on the members deal. I think he's caught up again......He usually likes to chat with me back and forth and he hasn't been able to of late because of how busy he is trying to fill orders etc... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Poor bugger ....well I'm sorry to hear of the mishap with yours AP. 

 That certainly isn't the norm with Lawrence. Mine took a while longer than usual IIRC, but I didn't mind. Did your brother know he was getting yours ? He'll never know otherwise if you kept that to yourself 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Peete.


----------



## pete~

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Those post are back during the "upgraded" power supply time frame. There were more failures during that time period than any other time we have witnessed here. From late Dec to early Feb, they managed to isolate the faulty units and acquire good ones, and fix the few Zero's that made it out to customers. It was a very difficult time and Lawrence was the only seller who came out of it as a trusted seller. He took care of the individuals who got the bad transformers and didn't abandon them like some of the other sellers did.

 Since that time, we have enjoyed a very high success rate with the Zero's received by members. It was very reassuring to see the "whole picture" improve as quickly as it did, and continue on to present day. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 When it comes time for me to order my 3rd Zero, I will do it without hesitation, from a trusted seller like Lawrence. I wish I could do it right now, but the budget insists I wait a while. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 well that's one issue but the other which is equally concerning is that he stated the unit as being no better than a dvd player. My problem is not that a few out of many people have made a bad comment about the sound but that the opinions are in such sharp contrast.

 How can one person be saying it may well compare with dacs costing more than $300+ yet another person comes along and says it is no better than a mediocre dvd player?


----------



## Oya?

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well that's one issue but the other which is equally concerning is that he stated the unit as being no better than a dvd player. My problem is not that a few out of many people have made a bad comment about the sound but that* the opinions are in such sharp contrast*.

 How can one person be saying it may well *compare with dacs costing more than $300+* yet another person comes along and *says it is no better than a mediocre dvd player*?_

 

The first problem: people value performance improvements differently. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The second problem: here on Head-Fi, you should err on the safe side and assume on the onset that 99% opinions you see here are wildly, outlandishly, extravagantly exaggerated. I don't know much about AudioKarma, but stroll through places like HydrogenAudio and you'll be surprised at the contrast of opinions on products that get raved on here.

 The third problem: non-dedicateds (ie. DVD players with headphone jacks, integrateds, receivers) does not equate to poor performance.


----------



## Nedman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How can one person be saying it may well compare with dacs costing more than $300+ yet another person comes along and says it is no better than a mediocre dvd player?_

 

In my system I usually played music from my computer. And before I purchased the Zero DAC I used a USB 20bit Xitel's HiFi-Link. 

 As the Zero DAC had the optical input, I decided to use a optical switch box so I could utilise both my computer and my DVD player. The difference in the DVD player's sound was quite noticeable, better sound stage, more detail. I also tried it with my older but much more expensive DVD player, and the results were the same.

 I have no idea if other DAC's would sound better, but I'm very happy with my purchase.

 Edit/ As a side point I don't use the headphone amp side of it. So I can't comment on that.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I don't know OYA....I don't think gear at Head Fi is outlandishly exaggerated furthermore I think people on this forum are more inclined to take a real serious look at their gear and call a spade a spade. The realm of outlandish exaggeration resides in the pages of Stereophile magazine and other publications of that ilk who survive on the advertising revenue of the very equipment they evaluate. For the most part if a piece of gear on this forum gets a good or great review it's because the piece merits the accolade. All IMHO of course. 

 So I will have to respectively disagree with your opinion at least where Head Fi is concerned.

 Peete.


----------



## Oya?

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't know OYA....I don't think gear at Head Fi is outlandishly exaggerated furthermore I think people on this forum are more inclined to take a real serious look at their gear and call a spade a spade. The realm of outlandish exaggeration resides in the pages of Stereophile magazine and other publications of that ilk who survive on the advertising revenue of the very equipment they evaluate. For the most part if a piece of gear on this forum gets a good or great review it's because the piece merits the accolade. All IMHO of course. 

 So I will have to respectively disagree with your opinion at least where Head Fi is concerned.

 Peete._

 

Certainly so. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sites like Stereophile simply needs no introduction; that anyone might take anything they say seriously is a joke. But as much as I like Head-Fi, I'm comfortable in standing by my stance that there's more reliable sources for objective opinions.

 I might also add that for the most part, I'm not arguing that there *isn't* improvements to be had. As a newbie I was very often disappointed by things I bought (my first portable amps comes to mind), when I had some rave opinions in mind. The difference was there, but nowhere near what I had expected from reading the said opinions. So I felt somewhat misled.

 But I am careful when I ask for opinions and advice now, and do keep myself in check when I give my own personal impressions; enthusiasm tends towards exaggeration.

 Completely OT: My OPA627s and HDAM finally left Hong Kong yesterday. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Took a while, but I'd imagine it's a bit chaotic over there with the Olympics and all, so delays are to be expected.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Well said OYA, a lesson well learned, often times, the hard way. All of us have experienced that type of lesson at some point in our lives. That being said I feel THE critical factor for a piece of gears success or failure is synergy with the entire system under review and taken as such (being a piece of the puzzle in the overall system) rather than being singled out as the lone reason the rigs SQ is outstanding or atrocious. This piece of gear is fantastic with setup A while disappointing with setup B....neither is wrong in their opinion.

 I think I've managed to confuse myself 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Does that make sense OYA ?

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I know one thing for sure. The HDAM and the Zero work together beautifully. 

 Peete


----------



## Oya?

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well said OYA, a lesson well learned, often times, the hard way. All of us have experienced that type of lesson at some point in our lives. That being said I feel THE critical factor for a piece of gears success or failure is synergy with the entire system under review and taken as such (being a piece of the puzzle in the overall system) rather than being singled out as the lone reason the rigs SQ is outstanding or atrocious. This piece of gear is fantastic with setup A while disappointing with setup B....neither is wrong in their opinion.

 I think I've managed to confuse myself 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Does that make sense OYA ?_

 

Yes, a very good point! I remember someone stating in a recent discussion how everyone always forgets synergy when making/reading impressions on gear. "Headphone 1 is better than headphone 2" should instead be "headphone 1 with source A, amp B, on music C is better than headphone 2 with source X, amp Y, music Z". Of course, it's harder to pin down in practice...

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know one thing for sure. The HDAM and the Zero work together beautifully._

 

That is certainly what I'm hoping for.


----------



## glitch39

has anyone tried putting OPA627's on the head amp section? I know it may not be cost effective on a $150 DAC, but for those who might desire a single box solution, I'm wondering if it can be configured that way.


----------



## Summer Jazz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oya?* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi and welcome. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There's 2 common kinds of OPA627s, for the OPA627BP you'll need 2 of them on an adapter. Then there's the OPA627AU for which you'd also need 2 mounted on a different kind of adapter. This latter combo is what Lawrence sells, have a look at it here. The reason for the adapter is because OPA2604 is a dual op-amp and OPA627 is a mono op-amp. Either of the above combinations are plug-and-play. If you're planning to buy an upgraded Zero with OPA627s, they should already be installed._

 

Hi Oya,
 Thanks for your reply. A few more questions if u don’t mind –
 1)There’s some technical spec different between OPA627BP & OPA627AU, which one is sonically better?
 2)Can OPA627BP uses the adaptor meant for OPA627AU & vice-versa?
 3)Is it possible to DIY just the adaptor? I’m trying to get the Op-amps from TI for sample. 
 4)Lastly, how reliable is the Zero DAC? Any 1st generation buyers with their unit still working fine?


----------



## Oya?

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Summer Jazz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Oya,
 Thanks for your reply. A few more questions if u don’t mind –
 1) There’s some technical spec different between OPA627BP & OPA627AU, which one is sonically better?
 2) Can OPA627BP uses the adaptor meant for OPA627AU & vice-versa?
 3) Is it possible to DIY just the adaptor? I’m trying to get the Op-amps from TI for sample. 
 4) Lastly, how reliable is the Zero DAC? Any 1st generation buyers with their unit still working fine?_

 

Hi Summer,

 1) I think a few posters have made some listening impressions further back in this thread, concluding that they sound identical. I'd certainly expect that.

 2) The reason the adaptors are different is because the BP is a DIP plug-in type and the AU is a SOIC surface-mount type. But I don't see any reason that you couldn't just solder the AU onto sockets of the BP adaptor.

 3) I'm not handy with electronics DIY, but if you wanted to DIY an adaptor I don't think it should be very complicated; it's only a matter of re-routing the pins correctly right? Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will chime in. But you can grab a BP type adapter for about $10 on eBay.

 4) I think it's precisely the first generations that had some troubles (IIRC, with the power supply). I wasn't even around back when the Zero started to get popular. It appears all the kinks have been worked out and the performance is now very stable.


----------



## Enthusia

Haha, I was trying to buy a zero dac off ebay with the head-fi deal because I want to use the Microsoft live discount. So the way I told Lawrence was that I had a coupon for ebay and he was like... what coupon... no coupon, you use coupon next time, just paypal!


----------



## Steph86

Just got my HDAM extension cable from lawrence, it works fine, so all I have to do now is wait for the russian caps so I can finish the mod.

 This may sound like a silly question but there are two other chips on the dac board which are on sockets. I am assuming these are dac chips, if so can they not be swapped out for better equivalents?


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Creek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I suggest that you try the LME49710 (or the others I mentioned), before buying those "HDAM"s with overly long extension cables. Just think of how far the power supply reservoir caps will be from the actual opamp! Not to mention the interaction with the feedback networks. Hardly high-end. I'm still not surprised that it should sound better than the OPA627 even crammed inside that way._

 

Have you heard the HDAM Andrea?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well that's one issue but the other which is equally concerning is that he stated the unit as being no better than a dvd player. My problem is not that a few out of many people have made a bad comment about the sound but that the opinions are in such sharp contrast.

 How can one person be saying it may well compare with dacs costing more than $300+ yet another person comes along and says it is no better than a mediocre dvd player?_

 


 I realize that you are new to HeadFi and that your experience is also new. Everyone has been where you are at, at one time or another, and it just happens to be your turn. With time, you'll get better at "filtering" out the useless information and at the same time, learning how to better use the information that is in front of you. I'm not trying to put you down, in any fashion whatsoever, so please don't take it that way. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 First off, try to understand what your comments are saying here. You are attempting to find validity to one person's flippant comment on another site, when that comment really doesn't tell us anything. There is no review, no data, no testing, no parameters, no ANYTHING that gives us a clue about the comment's validity. That comment standing all by itself, is simply "not valid". 

 The "sharp" contrast you refer to only "looks" like a sharp contrast, if you believe what has been said in that same "invalid" comment. Neither of those comments are valid, unless they give specifics and/or enough information for you to assign them validity. You can't believe everything that everyone says in simple one liner type comments, especially in audio!

 Now, let's look at this thread:

 You have a complete review with all the equipment, tests and measurements given, with impressions of it's build quality, sound quality and performance during that review. The review represents one person's impressions of the Zero in a testing environment, and it has validity not only because of the positive results of the review, but also due to the incredible amount of work, testing, and attention to detail that went into the review. This review was done for the benefit of the readership here at HeadFi, who wish to aquire quality audio at an excellent price. 

 You also have 4,567 posts, that contain "hundreds" of testimonials from audiophiles, giving their opinions and comments on the Zero. If a person takes the time to read through the entire thread, they will have everything that is known about the Zero in one nice history, and a decent idea of it's expected performance for the average user. You will also gain insight into possible modifications to the Zero, if you are a DIY kind of user.

 Many of the members here will tell you what I'm about to tell you:

 Ask as many questions as you want too, and help will be freely given to you by the nice folks in this thread. Most everyone wants to help, so be willing to accept the information they give you and decide for yourself, if the information you are given is "valid" or "applicable" to your system situation. No one here is trying to pull the wool over your eyes. They have no need or reason to do such things. Many choose to help out in this thread, because they like their Zero and have high hopes that others will get to share in such a nice little unit's positives and advantages.

 I hope this helps clear up some of the difficulties you are having with information/information overload. It truly can be a challenge sometimes.


----------



## Oya?

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you heard the HDAM Andrea?_

 

Creek = Andrea?

 Anyways, moving right along...

 For all the people with the HDAM in their Zeros, what are your thoughts on the cap upgrades that the BA site recommends? Their description of the process seems rather paltry to me, but I guess they didn't write that with DIY-challenged people like me in mind. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Is it something I should look at doing? Would anyone like to take a shot at explaining it to a guy who has never soldered anything in his life? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A photo of it would be fabulous. I know Prickly has done it, but it looks like he doesn't have a camera.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you heard the HDAM Andrea?_

 

Hey Cipher!

 I just happened to be listening to Pink Floyd, the track where they sing, "Got to keep the loonies on the path", and almost blew coffee on my monitor! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Ow, and it sounds excellent with my HDAM too!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oya?* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Creek = Andrea?

 Anyways, moving right along...

 For all the people with the HDAM in their Zeros, what are your thoughts on the cap upgrades that the BA site recommends? Their description of the process seems rather paltry to me, but I guess they didn't write that with DIY-challenged people like me in mind. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Is it something I should look at doing? Would anyone like to take a shot at explaining it to a guy who has never soldered anything in his life? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A photo of it would be fabulous. I know Prickly has done it, but it looks like he doesn't have a camera._

 

I have the parts and plan on upgrading the HDAM in the next couple of days. Prickly was telling me that due to the cap's size, it takes a good while to "mature", like 200 hours, so I guess I won't have a "true" opinion until then. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If Prickly says it worth doing, I'm in 100%. I've learned to trust his ears like they were my own. As always, YMMV, but this mod can be "undone" very easily, so I figure, why not try it.


----------



## Oya?

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have the parts and plan on upgrading the HDAM in the next couple of days. Prickly was telling me that due to the cap's size, it takes a good while to "mature", like 200 hours, so I guess I won't have a "true" opinion until then. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If Prickly says it worth doing, I'm in 100%. I've learned to trust his ears like they were my own. As always, YMMV, but this mod can be "undone" very easily, so I figure, why not try it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks, do keep us updated! Maybe you could do a small walk-through like you did with the pot upgrade? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I found that quite helpful; although I can't put it to use anytime soon since Big L is out of stock on pots.


----------



## ccschua

Hi,

 Nice to see another HDAM review will be forthcoming. I was the one obsessed with DY2000 due to my system setup that requires some laid -back and smooth sounds. However when I switch speaker (from metal dome to Soft dome), now I need the reverse, i.e. OPA 627. So the opamp swapping is really great for fine tuning.

 We are now thinking of upgrading the components at the ZERO dac such as this diode bypass, better caps, some analog stage bigger cap, mundorf caps.

 Any one has some comments some comments on the mods.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

The town drunk is back !!! 

 Who posted his bail ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Peete.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I realize that you are new to HeadFi...snip...
 Now, let's look at this thread: ...snip...

 You also have 4,567 posts, that contain "hundreds" of testimonials from audiophiles ... snip_

 

I don't want to be the party crasher or anything (and have nothing against you Pench.) but I do feel that this thread need to get the feet down to earth.

*NOTE that I do not bash the Zero itself, or giving my impression of it's sound quality.*

 1. Still, after 4K+ posts, I STILL do not know how good the Zero really is. Almost everyone of the Zero buyers are newbie audiophiles (me included), therefore, they (we) can't really say how good it is since we haven't heard a lot of dacs (and for most of us it's the first stand alone dac). The experienced people, those who HAVE heard a lot of different dacs in all price catagories, have all gone way past the Zero price point, so the do not buy it and can not help us with impressions.

 2. Still, after 4K+ posts, there are VERY FEW comparisons to other dacs. The only comparisons which have been done (by Andrea) have been deleted (I think, or atleast buried deep down in this massive thread). How does the Zero compare to the 707 dac? The DAC-1? The OPUS? Without comparisons, the Zero might very well be one of the worst dacs in it's pricerange, but all the HYPE makes it into the most popular.

 3. Look, I'm not trying to bash the Zero or anything (as I wrote), I'm only bashing the endless hype without enough facts and comparisons to back it up. That 100+ newbies thinks it sounds good doesn't mean anything more than the fact that it sounds good to untrained ears. A lot of newbies thinks that Bose Triport sounds awsome, while many trained audiophiles despise it.

 4. "Good for the money" means absolutely nothing if it isn't compared to other dacs in different price ranges.

 5. "HDAM". With the HDAM, the price of the Zero increases considerably, and this opens up to a lot more choices for dacs, and the Zero might not be a bang for the buch anymore.

 -----------------------------------
 6. Pench, you do make excellent reviews which are a joy to read, but for some reason they all seem to start this kind of HYPE, where there are almost no real comparisons at all to back it up (Little Dots). Sorry if I might have missed this, but I'm still eager to read a comparison of the LD MKV and Gilmore Lite or EC/SS. The Glite have been around a long time and is considered to be a very solid SS, but there must be more LD MKV around by now even though it's much newer, and this is all due to HYPE, and not due to facts and comparisons.

 If one really did a comparison, maybe that person would really see that the Glite is miles better than the MKV. 

*If the same person found that the MKV kills the Glite, I would be all over the MKV in a heartbeat.*

 I'm not a fanboy, I want the best possible sound for my few dollars available.


----------



## Garret Jax

lol

 I just ordered a Zero and you guys are seriously killing my buzz.


----------



## Citizen86

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Enthusia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Haha, I was trying to buy a zero dac off ebay with the head-fi deal because I want to use the Microsoft live discount. So the way I told Lawrence was that I had a coupon for ebay and he was like... what coupon... no coupon, you use coupon next time, just paypal!_

 

lol! So were you able to use it? If I bought a Zero anytime soon I would like to use that rebate as well, it's at 25% right now... which would basically pay for shipping 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Are you able to purchase one through Ebay but still make sure you get the upgraded version from Lawrence?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't want to be the party crasher or anything (and have nothing against you Pench.) but I do feel that this thread need to get the feet down to earth.

*NOTE that I do not bash the Zero itself, or giving my impression of it's sound quality.*

 1. Still, after 4K+ posts, I STILL do not know how good the Zero really is. Almost everyone of the Zero buyers are newbie audiophiles (me included), therefore, they (we) can't really say how good it is since we haven't heard a lot of dacs (and for most of us it's the first stand alone dac). The experienced people, those who HAVE heard a lot of different dacs in all price catagories, have all gone way past the Zero price point, so the do not buy it and can not help us with impressions.

 2. Still, after 4K+ posts, there are VERY FEW comparisons to other dacs. The only comparisons which have been done (by Andrea) have been deleted (I think, or atleast buried deep down in this massive thread). How does the Zero compare to the 707 dac? The DAC-1? The OPUS? Without comparisons, the Zero might very well be one of the worst dacs in it's pricerange, but all the HYPE makes it into the most popular.

 3. Look, I'm not trying to bash the Zero or anything (as I wrote), I'm only bashing the endless hype without enough facts and comparisons to back it up. That 100+ newbies thinks it sounds good doesn't mean anything more than the fact that it sounds good to untrained ears. A lot of newbies thinks that Bose Triport sounds awsome, while many trained audiophiles despise it.

 4. "Good for the money" means absolutely nothing if it isn't compared to other dacs in different price ranges.

 5. "HDAM". With the HDAM, the price of the Zero increases considerably, and this opens up to a lot more choices for dacs, and the Zero might not be a bang for the buch anymore.

 -----------------------------------
 6. Pench, you do make excellent reviews which are a joy to read, but for some reason they all seem to start this kind of HYPE, where there are almost no real comparisons at all to back it up (Little Dots). Sorry if I might have missed this, but I'm still eager to read a comparison of the LD MKV and Gilmore Lite or EC/SS. The Glite have been around a long time and is considered to be a very solid SS, but there must be more LD MKV around by now even though it's much newer, and this is all due to HYPE, and not due to facts and comparisons.

 If one really did a comparison, maybe that person would really see that the Glite is miles better than the MKV. 

*If the same person found that the MKV kills the Glite, I would be all over the MKV in a heartbeat.*

 I'm not a fanboy, I want the best possible sound for my few dollars available._

 

Why not buy one and find out for yourself.......if you don't agree with opinions expressed than sell it....you'll be out 40 bucks at most.

 At some point you have to take a leap of faith. As said by Pench previously you'll soon find out who (in this thread) is stating the truth and those who are not (Andrea). Andrea is only interested in creating a giant ****storm...so don't fall for his crap.

 Peete.

 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

I still want to know... does Andrea have boobs, or is it male?

 If breasts are present, I think we should let her stick around 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 PS - the LT1028 opamps are very good. I'm using my old headphone amplifier whilst I'm without a DAC, and they sound so well balanced... TI used them in the reference PCM1794 circuit, and they're well worth looking for. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete - I'd already told him to expect something magnificent, and hinted as to what it was. Had to do the decent thing and cough up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why not buy one and find out for yourself.......if you don't agree with opinions expressed than sell it....you'll be out 40 bucks at most.

 At some point you have to take a leap of faith. As said by Pench previously you'll soon find out who (in this thread) is stating the truth and those who are not (Andrea). Andrea is only interested in creating a giant ****storm...so don't fall for his crap.

 Peete.

 Peete._

 

First, I've had the Zero since february this year and uses it every day. I think it sounds okey/good/very good, but I haven't heard many sources at all so I don't really know how it compares.

 Second, I've read what Jude have written about Andrea, and I've seen him appear here under many names (not hard to spot him), but the fact is that he is one of the few persons in this thread that really have had (he says) a few different dacs and posted small comparisons (if they are legit I can't say).

 But as I wrote, I'm not bashing the Zero itself (it might be better than DAC-1, but what do I know), rather the hype without enough comparisons/facts behind it.

 Try to see it objectively: A new audiophile enters the thread and asks if this dac would suit him/her. 
 The answer that person most often gets is: "the Zero is the best thing since sliced bread, build quality is great, sound quality is great, support is great, everything is great, buy it you would not be disappointed". 

 Who wouldn't buy it based on that? That is exactly the reason why Bose can sell so many cans and be one of the biggest companies in audio, good marketing. 

 What that newbie doesn't know or doesn't think about is the fact that most of the people saying that are newbies themselves and doesn't really know much about it (lack of experience). 

 If people here get offended by me calling them (including me) newbies, then by all means, please tell what experience you have with different sources and how the Zero compares to them, as that would REALLY add to the thread.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oya?* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks, do keep us updated! Maybe you could do a small walk-through like you did with the pot upgrade? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I found that quite helpful; although I can't put it to use anytime soon since Big L is out of stock on pots. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That's a pretty good idea! I don't see why not, but I'll know more once I get started. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I hope he finds some pots soon!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_First, I've had the Zero since february this year and uses it every day. I think it sounds okey/good/very good, but I haven't heard many sources at all so I don't really know how it compares.

 Second, I've read what Jude have written about Andrea, and I've seen him appear here under many names (not hard to spot him), but the fact is that he is one of the few persons in this thread that really have had (he says) a few different dacs and posted small comparisons (if they are legit I can't say).

 But as I wrote, I'm not bashing the Zero itself (it might be better than DAC-1, but what do I know), rather the hype without enough comparisons/facts behind it.

 Try to see it objectively: A new audiophile enters the thread and asks if this dac would suit him/her. 
 The answer that person most often gets is: "the Zero is the best thing since sliced bread, build quality is great, sound quality is great, support is great, everything is great, buy it you would not be disappointed". 

 Who wouldn't buy it based on that? That is exactly the reason why Bose can sell so many cans and be one of the biggest companies in audio, good marketing. 

 What that newbie doesn't know or doesn't think about is the fact that most of the people saying that are newbies themselves and doesn't really know much about it (lack of experience). 

 If people here get offended by me calling them (including me) newbies, then by all means, please tell what experience you have with different sources and how the Zero compares to them, as that would REALLY add to the thread._

 

Henmyr, I...forget it, never mind. I'm done.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Henmyr, I...forget it, never mind. I'm done._

 

I've read somewhere that you have a long history with hifi, so the "newbie" is not directed against you. What would contribute is what experience you've had with other sources. I'm sure you've written it before, but it is now deep in the thread (you might even have written that in the review, so have to read it again, and if you have, I'm sorry about that).

 And if anyone else feel stepped on, please do come forward and tell what experience you have and how the Zero compare.

 I'm not here to flame or step on anyone's toes, and sorry if I did, just want the Zero to get the recognition it deserves, *no more*, no less.

 EDIT: Well, I've made my point, I will not spam the thread with this subject again (but it will probably be deep down in the thread by tomorrow already).

 EDIT2: Just realised that this thread "could" be called "Zero appreciation thread" since that's more or less what it is, and then my arguments might even have been a bit off since the "appreciation threads" are all about appreciation and raving of that specific item.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've read somewhere that you have a long history with hifi, so the "newbie" is not directed against you. What would contribute is what experience you've had with other sources. I'm sure you've written it before, but it is now deep in the thread (you might even have written that in the review, so have to read it again, and if you have, I'm sorry about that).

 And if anyone else feel stepped on, please do come forward and tell what experience you have and how the Zero compare.

 I'm not here to flame or step on anyone's toes, and sorry if I did, just want the Zero to get the recognition it deserves, *no more*, no less.

 EDIT: Well, I've made my point, I will not spam the thread with this subject again (but it will probably be deep down in the thread by tomorrow already).

 EDIT2: Just realised that this thread "could" be called "Zero appreciation thread" since that's more or less what it is, and then my arguments might even have been a bit off since the "appreciation threads" are all about appreciation and raving of that specific item._

 

Maybe you just have upgraditis.

 I had your dilemma and I delayed buying the Zero for that reason. I spent about a month trading PMs with many headfiers who had experience with multiple DACs and sources. Some of those headfiers have/had the Zero and other DACs to do direct comparisons to. 

 I almost bought 3 other DACs in the range of $150 to $375+ before settling on the Zero.

 After all that "talking" the only conclusion that I could come to was that the Zero and the Beresford DACs do very well when compared to DACs twice their price. I choose the Zero because of the quality of the Headamp and the fact that it is easily upgraded and customizable.

 If I were you I would just take the plunge and buy another DAC that has good reviews and see where the Zero measures up. Otherwise, you will just wonder whether or not you got what you paid for and it will detract from your experience with the Zero.


----------



## Garret Jax

So does the Zero's DAC basically process any two channel LPCM up to 24/192 over S/PDIF (optical or coax)? Is there any way - using either a (HT)PC setup or a stand-alone blu-ray player - to take advantage of Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio uncompressed audio? I know that blu-ray discs can be encoded with soundtracks at 24/192 on *8* channels. Blu-ray players can then downmix this to 24/192 on *2* channels, and send that out over the HDMI cable, but to my knowledge this only occurs if the receiver requests a 2 channel stream (the source and receiver can communicate over HDMI 1.3 to decide on the number of channels used). Will stand alone blu-ray players send out 2-channel (downmixed from standard 8) at 24/192 over an S/PDIF connection, or do they always and only send either DD, DTS (both 5.1 24/96, I believe) OR 2 channel 24/96?

 Sorry if this is confusing. I am just trying to figure out how to get uncompressed blu-ray HD audio downmixed to 2 channels, and then somehow delivered to the Zero DAC. Because the Zero DAC processes 2-channel 24/192 signals over S/PDIF (optical or coax), it can handle the data rate necessary for 2 channel versions of HD audio, so in theory this could work... right?

 Anyway, please comment if you have any knowledge or theories 

 Thanks,
 -Garret
 (ordered a Zero DAC from C.L. two days ago)


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Garret Jax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So does the Zero's DAC basically process any two channel LPCM up to 24/192 over S/PDIF (optical or coax)? Is there any way - using either a (HT)PC setup or a stand-alone blu-ray player - to take advantage of Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio uncompressed audio? I know that blu-ray discs can be encoded with soundtracks at 24/192 on *8* channels. Blu-ray players can then downmix this to 24/192 on *2* channels, and send that out over the HDMI cable, but to my knowledge this only occurs if the receiver requests a 2 channel stream (the source and receiver can communicate over HDMI 1.3 to decide on the number of channels used). Will stand alone blu-ray players send out 2-channel (downmixed from standard 8) at 24/192 over an S/PDIF connection, or do they always and only send either DD, DTS (both 5.1 24/96, I believe) OR 2 channel 24/96?

 Sorry if this is confusing. I am just trying to figure out how to get uncompressed blu-ray HD audio downmixed to 2 channels, and then somehow delivered to the Zero DAC. Because the Zero DAC processes 2-channel 24/192 signals over S/PDIF (optical or coax), it can handle the data rate necessary for 2 channel versions of HD audio, so in theory this could work... right?

 Anyway, please comment if you have any knowledge or theories 

 Thanks,
 -Garret
 (ordered a Zero DAC from C.L. two days ago)_

 

A quick email to Lawrence will tell you pretty quick. I'd have to say the chance of the Zero being able to handle that type of data stream is next to ....well...Zero 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't think any 2 channel stand alone DAC has that ability, although as always I could be wrong about that.

 Peete.


----------



## pete~

The trouble is that we can be here til the cows come home arguing about how good or bad it sounds. 

 What nobody appears to have thought of is that we need measurements of the unit in order to decide how it compares with say a Dcs converter.

 Otherwise I could say the $20,000 Dcs converter sounds awful and that a cheap dvd player sounds better and NOBODY could refute that.


----------



## Citizen86

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The trouble is that we can be here til the cows come home arguing about how good or bad it sounds. 

 What nobody appears to have thought of is that we need measurements of the unit in order to decide how it compares with say a Dcs converter.

 Otherwise I could say the $20,000 Dcs converter sounds awful and that a cheap dvd player sounds better and NOBODY could refute that._

 

What type of measurements are you talking about? Scientific measurements? I don't think you've been around head-fi very long (honestly, neither have I), but there isn't a science here like black and white, hot and cold... People hear differently, people like different things... It's almost like choosing a different car, maybe a minivan for your 8 kids... do you take the one with the DVD player in it, or the one with the extra row of seats? You aren't going to choose the same as the family with 2 kids...

 What I'm trying to say is, nobody is going to hear the same, nobody has the same setup, so you're not going to get the same response from everybody. One person may say DAC A is better than DAC B, they may even compare them next to each other and give the reasons why they like A more over B... doesn't mean that this other person hears the same in both DAC's, or agrees with the first persons findings. Maybe it was the headphones they were using, maybe the amp, maybe different music....

 All you can do with this is go by what people say ABOUT a piece of hardware. Is it 'fun' or 'sterile'. Is it 'bright' or is it 'laid-back'? There is no science here, there is only research to see what people have said about a certain piece of hardware and then eventually seeing if YOU like it.

 Edit: And you're right, we CAN be here arguing until the cows come home... usually are, that's why these threads are so long


----------



## Oya?

If I may add a delicious aside to the discussion... there are people who argue that all _well-made_ DACs (from the cheap $200 to anything in multiple grand range) are indistinguishable in an ABX.

 In the end, that's really all it comes down to. The vastly superior measurable specs of one DAC is worthless if it's audibly identical to a measurably inferior DAC. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It very much annoys me that reliable DAC vs DAC (although you could substitute any 2 pieces of gear here) ABX studies are lacking. Meaning that until there is one, I'm going to be sitting on the fence. Although I know where I tend to lean already.


----------



## Garret Jax

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A quick email to Lawrence will tell you pretty quick. I'd have to say the chance of the Zero being able to handle that type of data stream is next to ....well...Zero 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't think any 2 channel stand alone DAC has that ability, although as always I could be wrong about that.

 Peete._

 

Well, not exactly. In my rambling message, regardless of how it gets there, the Zero DAC will can definitely be fed a 24 bit, 192 kHz, 2 channel digital source using either its Coax or Optical input, my question is: Can we use some other device - e.g. an HTPC, a blu-ray player - to downmix the DD TrueHD and the DTS HD Master Audio uncompressed 24/192 8 channel tracks to a 2 channel source. If we can do that, the Zero DAC can certainly handle it (unless the title of this thread is wrong . 

 This may involve DRM issues, as well.


----------



## Citizen86

You would probably need some type of DD/DTS decoder to feed the Zero, as you said, there are DRM issues....

 Blu-Ray > Decoder > Zero

 Theoretically.....


----------



## pete~

so whats the bottom line for me. Am I going get this thing or not?

 I am sitting on the fence and cannot decide.

 What about other alternatives for the same price. Ibasso? etc

 I just want the most accurate close to the original for the least amount of money.


----------



## sonq

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't want to be the party crasher or anything (and have nothing against you Pench.) but I do feel that this thread need to get the feet down to earth.

*NOTE that I do not bash the Zero itself, or giving my impression of it's sound quality.*

 1. Still, after 4K+ posts, I STILL do not know how good the Zero really is. Almost everyone of the Zero buyers are newbie audiophiles (me included), therefore, they (we) can't really say how good it is since we haven't heard a lot of dacs (and for most of us it's the first stand alone dac). The experienced people, those who HAVE heard a lot of different dacs in all price catagories, have all gone way past the Zero price point, so the do not buy it and can not help us with impressions.

 2. Still, after 4K+ posts, there are VERY FEW comparisons to other dacs. The only comparisons which have been done (by Andrea) have been deleted (I think, or atleast buried deep down in this massive thread). How does the Zero compare to the 707 dac? The DAC-1? The OPUS? Without comparisons, the Zero might very well be one of the worst dacs in it's pricerange, but all the HYPE makes it into the most popular.

 3. Look, I'm not trying to bash the Zero or anything (as I wrote), I'm only bashing the endless hype without enough facts and comparisons to back it up. That 100+ newbies thinks it sounds good doesn't mean anything more than the fact that it sounds good to untrained ears. A lot of newbies thinks that Bose Triport sounds awsome, while many trained audiophiles despise it.

 4. "Good for the money" means absolutely nothing if it isn't compared to other dacs in different price ranges.

 5. "HDAM". With the HDAM, the price of the Zero increases considerably, and this opens up to a lot more choices for dacs, and the Zero might not be a bang for the buch anymore.

 -----------------------------------
 6. Pench, you do make excellent reviews which are a joy to read, but for some reason they all seem to start this kind of HYPE, where there are almost no real comparisons at all to back it up (Little Dots). Sorry if I might have missed this, but I'm still eager to read a comparison of the LD MKV and Gilmore Lite or EC/SS. The Glite have been around a long time and is considered to be a very solid SS, but there must be more LD MKV around by now even though it's much newer, and this is all due to HYPE, and not due to facts and comparisons.

 If one really did a comparison, maybe that person would really see that the Glite is miles better than the MKV. 

*If the same person found that the MKV kills the Glite, I would be all over the MKV in a heartbeat.*

 I'm not a fanboy, I want the best possible sound for my few dollars available._

 

I've only read the 1st and this last 2 pages, but he has stated this on page 1, "Is this low cost Zero unit really that good? Yes, indeed it is. I have to be honest and tell everyone that "your mileage may vary". I have done my best to describe what has transpired during this review and I wouldn’t want anyone to think for even a minute that this Zero unit could or should replace $600+ units with similar features. What I must get across is that this unit is worth checking out, reading about or listening too before you spend twice the money on another unit. It is a gem!"

 Hype, subjectivity and misinformed enthusiasm are part and parcel of most hifi forums. Even in Stereophile and TAS, I'll take reviews as a pinch of salt - more to narrow down my choices and provide alternative views - anyway, only you can decide if a piece of gear is worth buying and keeping.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Garret Jax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, not exactly. In my rambling message, regardless of how it gets there, the Zero DAC will can definitely be fed a 24 bit, 192 kHz, 2 channel digital source using either its Coax or Optical input, my question is: Can we use some other device - e.g. an HTPC, a blu-ray player - to downmix the DD TrueHD and the DTS HD Master Audio uncompressed 24/192 8 channel tracks to a 2 channel source. If we can do that, the Zero DAC can certainly handle it (unless the title of this thread is wrong . 

 This may involve DRM issues, as well._

 

Google the acronym AACS for TrueHD. 

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so whats the bottom line for me. Am I going get this thing or not?

 I am sitting on the fence and cannot decide.

 What about other alternatives for the same price. Ibasso? etc

 I just want the most accurate close to the original for the least amount of money._

 

Flip a coin then.....Heads = Zero, Tails = Ibasso. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Peete.


----------



## Citizen86

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so whats the bottom line for me. Am I going get this thing or not?

 I am sitting on the fence and cannot decide.

 What about other alternatives for the same price. Ibasso? etc

 I just want the most accurate close to the original for the least amount of money._

 

No one can make that choice for you... and shouldn't. Especially since the Ibasso D2 Boa is a portable dac/amp and the Zero is a desktop dac/amp, they have completely different applications. YOU decide what YOU are looking for, if it's a portable amp or a desktop DAC/amp, then YOU do the research and ask the questions in YOUR price range and opinions, and YOU try and figure out what it is YOU want from your audio gear....

 Hopefully I made my point, it's up to you.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Is there a full moon tonight ?

 Peete.


----------



## bada bing

Since there is interest in people's opinions directly comparing the zero to other DAC's, I'll post the following message. It is a cut-n-paste of a response I made a couple months ago to a PM asking for direct comparisons (saves me retyping my own BS again)

  Quote:


 I haven't had an emu 0404 usb to listen to for about 4 months, so my comments are from memory, not current comparison. I did have an 0404 and my zero together to compare them side by side for about 6 weeks back around the first of the year.

 The zero dac section isn't perfectly flat in it's frequency response. There was a series of posts in the big zero thread back about February going into the capacitors and the resistor network on the op-amp buffering the DAC chip output. Several people - including myself - altered their zero's to make the DAC buffering circuit correspond to the example circuit from the DAC chip manufacturer. The result was less than pleasing and I think everyone who tried it undid the modifications back to stock.

 The reason I bring up the technical trivia is the slightly tweaked frequency response used in the zero has a very pleasing result. That is mostly what I find preferable about the zero over the emu0404. The emu0404 has a slightly dry & analytic sound that may be technically accurate, but isn't as entertaining as the zero, especially if used from their respective built in amps. Both of them suffer in the amp section following their DAC's, but the emu0404 amp is much less powerful. If I was going to guess, I would say the zero DAC frequency response goes somewhat lower than the emu0404, but probably rolls off just a touch earlier on the top with a slight hump in the low midrange. The difference in frequency response remained even if using the DAC out to a separate amp, so it was mostly part of the DAC, not the built in amps. The zero is a very pleasing DAC (for the money, always have to put that in), especially with bright cans like grado's. I also enjoyed playing HD650's using the zero DAC and a darkvoice 332 amp. That particular combo is pretty impressive but the darkvoice signature kind of overwhelms any zero coloration.

 The difference between the DAC's isn't night and day & they both do a surprisingly good job for the cost. Either would be nice set up matched with a PPA. I built a PPAv2 last fall and used it some with both the zero and the emu0404. I ended up preferring the more expensive M^3 by a slight amount and gave the PPAv2 to a family member, but the PPA is a great amp that will more than do justice to either DAC. If I was setting up a system in the range you are considering, I would buy a zero (in preference to the emu0404) and build a PPA (or M^3). That's a very nice system that would run just about any headphone pretty well.

 Besides the zero and the emu0404, I have built an "alien DAC", a twisted pear "opus" balanced dac and I'm waiting on the availability of the boards for a balanced twisted pear "buffalo". The alien DAC is surprisingly good for the $40 it costs to build, but is definitely inferior to the Zero DAC - or the emu0404.
 The twisted pear opus - balanced is definitely a higher end DAC, but it is hard to say how the Zero would fare compared to the single-ended version of the opus. I haven't run the opus thru a SE set up yet. 

 Sorry for the rambling post. Hopefully there is something useful in my rambling.


----------



## S.O.P

Currently awaiting a reply from Lawrence as I hope to join the Zero club soon.

 Was thinking about the Keces 131 but the Zero seems to offer me a bit more for my money, if I can ever get in contact with him.

 Thanks to everyone that contributed to the thread, quite an interesting read.


----------



## glitch39

here's my take on Hemyr's comments:

 I've previously owned the musiland md-10, Keces 151 and OMZ. paired them with various amps and HP's.

 the md-10 is too clinical and dry

 the keces is great but limits me to my type of source

 the OMZ is *great *but at a higher price tag. vinyl-sounding, large soundstage and gives "flesh and bones" sound to vocals

 when the zero was new and stock, it sounded a lot like the md10. after opamp rolling and burn-in, it got MUCH better. After adding the HDAM, it got closer to the OMZ

 you gotta try opamp rolling - what sounds great to one person may not apply to you. check out page one and see how many opamps give "great" sound - tried them all but settled on one combo in the end. so it's not truly "one size fits all". If you want to bypass all the work and go straight to what works generally best, then you are certainly entitled to it.

 Back to the HDAM - it always gets questioned on its value relative to the cost of the DAC. prob b/c its about 50% of the zero. Read the reviews on 
 Burson Audio and those who had put the same component on a multi-thousand CDP swear on how it's the best value in CDP upgrades.

 So its all relative. Enjoy the sound.... to me the joy is in the the quest and experimentation. many have said....

*"you can't know which hat fits you best until you've tried more than one"*


----------



## Currawong

The only things I have to compare my ZERO to are my Apogee Duet and the output of my MacBook Pro. 

 The Duet, being a professional instrument has a very clinical sound about it, which I didn't find pleasing with K701's. The ZERO with 627's is probably about the same in detail, not allowing for the cheaper cable on the Duet and the 6N copper ICs from the Duet to my MKV.

 Overall, having heard a lot of great hi-fi gear, the ZERO + 627's is far from the last word in detail and sound stage, but is very enjoyably musical. As an upgrade for people using their PC or Mac as a digital source, it blows them away.


----------



## Steph86

This may sound like a silly question but there are two other chips on the dac board which are on sockets. I am assuming these are dac chips, if so can they not be swapped out for better equivalents?


----------



## katalyst^

I have not kept up with Head-fi for a few years and now, looking to upgrade again, I made a valiant attempt to wade through some of the threads in the amps section. After a bit of reading and with a $1,000 budget, a Zero and LD MKV seem like a good combination. Given the basic prices, I would add whatever upgrades are available.

 Could anyone give any advice on the combo or upgrades to max either out? Cheers!


----------



## Penchum

Well, I'm glad to see that we've covered most of the important points about the Zero and what it can do. It is important to remember that the Zero represents a sizable bang for the buck, and that has been it's main drive for most buyers. I knew from the start, it had potential enough to stir up the lower/middle end of the DAC market, and I think it should. 

 So how does the Zero sound? This seems to be the question on some folk's minds right now and it isn't directly addressed very often. Here is what I know for sure. The stock Zero put a huge hammer on my (highly sought after) Entech 205.2 Number Cruncher. Smoked it totally! With Opamps upgrades to the OPA627's and LT1364's, the improvement in sound quality was very noticeable using my HD-650's. The DAC output was better, and the SQ of the internal SS head amp was better. It was difficult to find a DAC Opamp that would do well for DAC output and the internal head amp. Many Opamps would do well for one, and mess up the other. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What can a person expect from the "HeadFi" upgraded Zero offer (OPA627's and LT1364's)? Well, they would have the same setup I have in my Zero #1, which I'm driving my digital mini system and two headphone amps with. The DAC output is very nice and the internal head amp sounds pretty decent as well. This combo brings me satisfaction without hesitation. For the cost (now $139) it is an incredible deal that is sure to make the majority of buyers very happy. I have NO doubt about it's "real" sound quality. This is why I bought a second Zero instead of another DAC. 

 One of the BIG variable factors with these DAC/Amps, is what headphones are you using. The possibilities are almost endless! Results will always vary between different headphones and there is little that can be done about it. Opamp rolling can help to a degree and so can tube rolling if the Zero is driving a tube amp. Everyone should expect these differences and work with them as best they can.

 I do know for certain, that the HeadFi upgraded Zero has a very well rounded DAC output, when using my Xtreme music, (optical or coaxial out) as a source. I can take that DAC output and feed it to every system I have here in my Lab/Office, and the results are always positive. It sounds better than my CDP's, my DVDP's and other optical based players. I can hook the Zero to my Pioneer SPEC system and run 150 watts RMS of clean, dynamic music, which alarms the neighbors every time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My wife doesn't like it very much, but I do. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So, take the Zero in stride. It's not the "end all" DAC/Amp, and it's not a "Low end" DAC/Amp either. It has DIY mod potential, and it already has enough power to get the job done, cleanly. The only way I would replace one of my Zero's, would be if I was going "balanced". Due to the high costs involved with going balanced, I'm going to stay in the "single" ended headphone audio for now. Spending additional money on different DAC/Amps, to try and improve upon the "HeadFi" upgraded Zero, I would consider past the "diminishing returns" line, so I'll keep these little gems and buy some more music instead.

 When this thread started, the Zero was a quality bargain, plain and simple. Now, with the upgrades on board, it is still a quality bargain, plain and simple.
 It just keeps getting better. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As always, YMMV and IMHO.


----------



## alxwang

What is HDAM? Where I can find it and how to install it? I get confused.
 Thanks.


----------



## Summer Jazz

I noticed majority of the Head-fi members used their PC as the digital source. Has anyone use the Zero DAC with a budget entry level dedicated CD player (older model like Marantz CD6000, newer models like NAD 515, Marantz CD5001)?
 Is the sound (with Zero as DAC) better than using these CD players internal DAC? Any review on that?
 Thanks!


----------



## Citizen86

Thanks for the clarification Penchum, and don't worry, I think you're opinion is pretty highly respected around here, I think there are just some that don't want to get carried away in hype. Just like everything else here on this forum though, it's always YMMY and IYO (in your opinion 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) and IMO. But you yourself say it on the first page, it should NOT replace $600 dac/amp's.

 Good to know there is such a relatively cheap DAC out there though that sounds so good. I'm still considering getting one myself, although still debating whether I want it more portable or not (and when the funds are available 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## Steph86

Does anyone know the answer to post 4600?


----------



## Citizen86

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Steph86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This may sound like a silly question but there are two other chips on the dac board which are on sockets. I am assuming these are dac chips, if so can they not be swapped out for better equivalents?_

 

The opamps are changeable... that's what you see people call "opamp rolling", finding opamps that work well in it.... The upgraded version that Penchum is talking about has OPA627's I think.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Citizen86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the clarification Penchum, and don't worry, I think you're opinion is pretty highly respected around here, I think there are just some that don't want to get carried away in hype. Just like everything else here on this forum though, it's always YMMY and IYO (in your opinion 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) and IMO. But you yourself say it on the first page, it should NOT replace $600 dac/amp's.

 Good to know there is such a relatively cheap DAC out there though that sounds so good. I'm still considering getting one myself, although still debating whether I want it more portable or not (and when the funds are available 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)._

 

Thanks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ya, it is easy to spend a bunch on portable. I settled on a Zune80 using WMA lossless, to a MK1 amp (with LT1364) and my choice of headphones. The sound quality is good enough for being "away" and this kept the costs reasonable. It will drive my HD-650s full spectrum, so I'm pretty happy with it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This allowed me to spend a little more on desktop/home goodies, where I'm more likely do critical listening for enjoyment.


----------



## Steph86

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Citizen86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The opamps are changeable... that's what you see people call "opamp rolling", finding opamps that work well in it.... The upgraded version that Penchum is talking about has OPA627's I think._

 

I am talking about the larger chips more central on the DAC board not the 8 pin to the right where the HDAM module fits. There are two of them, one has 16 pins and the other has 20. I think they are the receiver and decoder chips. Can these not be swapped out? mine are on sockets?


----------



## tinseljim

Hi folks just to say hi and chime in. The Zero is also better than my Yamaha DSP-E800 by a long way and is also marginally better than my Aego P5 with the Aego sounding more analytical, Zero more musical. Hmmm...seems to be a theme around here.

 Can anyone take this to a meet? Do side by sides with other DACs? We could compile a list of desktop Dacs then in an approximate order of SQ.


----------



## katanka

Hey all, i am a zero owner for a while now and still follow this thread closely. I have my zero hooked up to an amp and bookshelf speakers as well as for my headphones. I have added the opa627 opamp in the dac section an actually did notice some difference. Now the hype is over HDAM. Is the difference in sound quality huge or subtle over opa627. i listen to a lot of metal / rock and progressive stuff. i usually test my changes on music such as dream theater, queen, a perfect cirlce and opeth.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bada bing* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Since there is interest in people's opinions directly comparing the zero to other DAC's, I'll post the following message. It is a cut-n-paste of a response I made a couple months ago to a PM asking for direct comparisons (saves me retyping my own BS again)_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *glitch39* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_here's my take on Hemyr's comments:

 snip_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The only things I have to compare my ZERO to are my Apogee Duet and the output of my MacBook Pro. 
_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I'm glad to see that we've covered most of the important points about the Zero and what it can do. It is important to remember that the Zero represents a sizable bang for the buck, and that has been it's main drive for most buyers. I knew from the start, it had potential enough to stir up the lower/middle end of the DAC market, and I think it should. 
 snip_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tinseljim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi folks just to say hi and chime in. The Zero is also better than my Yamaha DSP-E800 by a long way and is also marginally better than my Aego P5 with the Aego sounding more analytical, Zero more musical. Hmmm...seems to be a theme around here.
 snip_

 

Thanks guys, this was exactly the type of comments I felt was missing
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I now know more about how Zero compares to other dacs.

 My comments were not meant as a personal attack on anyone (They might have been a bit to harsh on Pench. though and sorry for that).


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Steph86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am talking about the larger chips more central on the DAC board not the 8 pin to the right where the HDAM module fits. There are two of them, one has 16 pins and the other has 20. I think they are the receiver and decoder chips. Can these not be swapped out? mine are on sockets?_

 

Copy down what the chips say on the top and google it. Report back what you find out about them please 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Steph86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am talking about the larger chips more central on the DAC board not the 8 pin to the right where the HDAM module fits. There are two of them, one has 16 pins and the other has 20. I think they are the receiver and decoder chips. Can these not be swapped out? mine are on sockets?_

 

Google the part numbers and answer your own question.

 The end answer is that the ICs are not what you believe them to be. The receiver and decoder are soldered to the board, and aren't immediately upgradeable.

 As for the query(Pete~) about what represents the most accurate bang for your buck - the answer is an AV710. You'll spend $20 or less, and by using the rear channels, you'll get an accurate and unfettled sound. It's 65-70% as good as the Zero DAC, but costs a tenth the price.

 If you're undecided, remain that way. Make your own mind up, you'll only be disappointed if someone on here sways you to one or the other. Head-Fi is a mass of opinions - more opinions of a similar value can give a good indication of the overall character of a piece of gear. One opinion, which you perceive to be similar to your own, could be totally off the mark. But 200 people saying very similar things about a budget DAC... odds are they're worth listening to. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Ap what value bypass cap did you end up using on the 4 x 47uf 10V Elna's in the analog section....sorry if this has been answered before way back in the thread. 

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 If you're undecided, remain that way. Make your own mind up, you'll only be disappointed if someone on here sways you to one or the other. Head-Fi is a mass of opinions - more opinions of a similar value can give a good indication of the overall character of a piece of gear. One opinion, which you perceive to be similar to your own, could be totally off the mark. But 200 people saying very similar things about a budget DAC... odds are they're worth listening to. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 

Excellent advice AP. 

 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ap what value bypass cap did you end up using on the 4 x 47uf 10V Elna's in the analog section....sorry if this has been answered before way back in the thread. 

 Peete._

 

Either 100nF or 220nF, I'm struggling to remember now... I think it was 100nF.

 I did list it at the time, but that's probably 200-odd pages ago... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## pete~

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Google the part numbers and answer your own question.

 The end answer is that the ICs are not what you believe them to be. The receiver and decoder are soldered to the board, and aren't immediately upgradeable.

 As for the query(Pete~) about what represents the most accurate bang for your buck - the answer is an AV710. You'll spend $20 or less, and by using the rear channels, you'll get an accurate and unfettled sound. It's 65-70% as good as the Zero DAC, but costs a tenth the price.

 If you're undecided, remain that way. Make your own mind up, you'll only be disappointed if someone on here sways you to one or the other. Head-Fi is a mass of opinions - more opinions of a similar value can give a good indication of the overall character of a piece of gear. One opinion, which you perceive to be similar to your own, could be totally off the mark. But 200 people saying very similar things about a budget DAC... odds are they're worth listening to. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 


 but how does the zero with the upgrades compare realistically? 

 Name some well known cd players which it could compare with.

 By the way, no one seems to say much about the transport the zero is cinnected to. Surely this could make a (perhaps big) difference?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Either 100nF or 220nF, I'm struggling to remember now... I think it was 100nF.

 I did list it at the time, but that's probably 200-odd pages ago... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 

Thanks AP.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

pete~ your starting to smell like Andrea.......tell me I'm wrong ....



 Peete.


----------



## pete~

I'm not andrea why would i be? 

 what evidence do you have before you actually start making allegations?


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_but how does the zero with the upgrades compare realistically? 

 Name some well known cd players which it could compare with.

 By the way, no one seems to say much about the transport the zero is cinnected to. Surely this could make a (perhaps big) difference?_

 

I'm only familiar with the stock unit. Are you familiar with the Naim CD5? I'd say the stock Zero DAC was around 90% as good. It's certainly better than the well-known and highly tweaked Marantz CD63, the benchmark of modern CD players IMO.

 As with any source, the difference isn't likely to be night and day. But in a focused listening session, with a piece of music you're familiar with... **** me, it's a damned good sounding piece of kit. Incredibly musical, it pulls you into the music, away from the real world and into heaven.

 But, truth be told, I've had those same moments with my old CD player, comparable to the CD52IISE(same DAC and sound signature).

 Your best bang for the buck will be an AV-710. They're dirt cheap, offer an unmolested insight to the world of music. You'll find yourself immersed in a wave of audio pleasure.

 Zero DAC is better. IMO it's worth the under-£100 price tag, and by a good margin.

 Does it beat the £1200 Naim? I highly doubt it. Haven't tried the pair back to back, nor do I want to. The last time I did an expensive shootout(Peugeot 205 1.9GTi, tweaked Subaru Impreza Turbo 2000, Porsche 911 Celebration), the result wasn't what I expected. The Impreza was the easiest to live with, and the fastest. The Porsche gave the greatest sensation and communication when driving down a twisty road at speed. The Peugeot was the slowest, but most certainly my favourite. The Scooby had to be driven at 120mph+ to get the pleasure, the Porsche at 80mph+ to give the communication a real driver seeks. The Peugeot gave 95% of the communication 95% of the time. Every single journey was pleasurable, and an enormous deal of fun. It was the cheapest to buy, to insure, and to run.

 It was the best. The Porsche was 40x the price, and was better, but not by £19,500.

 The Impreza was quickest outright, and the easiest to drive. It was as dull as a wet fart in a bath of chocolate.

 The Zero DAC is bloody good. Buy it and after a few weeks you'll likely be in love with it. If you're not... it's only $150 dropped. Go drop £7k on a car and feel disappointed with it, wishing you'd kept the £500 little Peugeot - it's a horrible feeling, and even these years later, the only car I regret selling.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## pete~

well to be honest as long as it's better than the portable cd player I have connected at the moment, which isn't terrible but still quite poor, then it will be adequate.

 By the way if I am going to use speakers, will I still get the same sound quality as has been described in this thread?


----------



## AudioPhewl

Depends on the speakers! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It sounds mighty-fine through my old BBC studio monitors. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's a fine DAC, with a pretty good headphone amplifier built in. If you're not using headphones, then it'll still be a fine DAC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ETA - what gear are you using? You'll notice little gains, to be honest, if you're using a pair of PC speakers. You need something with a bit of resolution, else you'll be getting more detail but be unable to hear it...

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Ok, Pete accept my apologies .......

 I need to know something first. Are you a beginner in the world of Audio as in you have just embarked and don't know a thing ?

 It helps to know that and will change my attitude greatly....

 Peete.


----------



## pete~

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, Pete accept my apologies .......

 I need to know something first. Are you a beginner in the world of Audio as in you have just embarked and don't know a thing ?

 It helps to know that and will change my attitude greatly....

 Peete._

 

no im not exactly a beginner in any case, I know what sounds good or not.

 But I dont use headphones. Just a normal hifi.


----------



## AudioPhewl

IMHO you'd gain more from getting a decent pair of headphones, if that is what you'd like to do. If you'd like to get into the world of good sounding gear, then have a good hunt on eBay for a pair of Spendor or Rogers loudspeakers. Some of them change hands for very little money, yet yield sparkling results. And a good amp from last decade...

 IMO it'll be hit-or-miss whether you'll find an appreciable difference when using a typical home stereo system.

 However, the Zero DAC and a good pair of headphones should put you on an even playing field with anyone else on here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Well that's a start...list your gear please so I have an idea where your at and can offer some suggestions with regards to what your asking about the zero...

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

AP's advice is right on the money......a lot of my gear was/is used....what I couldn't find used and in good condition I bought new (when I had saved up enough money)....my HD650's are from another forum member for instance. I saved 150 US and they only had 50 hours on them......they were just as good as brand new...

 Another interesting side to this hobby is the upgrading and learning never ends. I've been at this for over 30 years with a revolving door of gear as I go. So be patient be like a sponge and read, read , read as much as you can, learn as much as you can and never stop learning....

 Peete.


----------



## pete~

its ok i will probably get it.

 whats the hiss like on the zero? 

 any hiss or hum through the speakers? 

 also i am going to upgrade the volume pot. what is the resistance of it?


----------



## pete~

but i AM new to audiophiles that actually use headphones as opposed to speakers.

 I just cant understand it.


----------



## AudioPhewl

No audible hiss to my ears. I do have high-impedance headphones(600ohm), but there is no audible hiss to my ears.

 Volume pot is a 10k logarithmic, from memory. Don't take my word for it, as someone else will be able to give you a more accurate idea.

 Volume pot only makes a difference to the headphone out. If you're using the RCA out sockets, then you'll want to bypass the headphone amplifier and use it as a pure line-out.

 Anyway... onto more pressing matters...

  Code:


```
[left]Date#LocationDelivery Status 19-Jul-2008 Hong Kong Item posted and is being processed. 19-Jul-2008 Hong Kong In transit. 21-Jul-2008 Hong Kong Processed for departure. 21-Jul-2008 Hong Kong The item left Hong Kong for its destination on 22-Jul-2008 23-Jul-2008 United Kingdom Arrived and is being processed. 23-Jul-2008 United Kingdom In transit. 24-Jul-2008 United Kingdom Arrived the delivery office and is being processed.[/left]
```

Anyone reckon I'll see it today? :-D

 ~Phewl.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_but i AM new to audiophiles that actually use headphones as opposed to speakers.

 I just cant understand it._

 

List your gear, Pete. Give us all an idea of how we can really help you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Oya?

My HDAM arrived today; I had a bit of a chuckle because it looks like it belongs right at home in the Zero, since the cable length is just right. There's even a grounding point right next to it on the head-amp PCB. Good old Lawrence. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just finished the obligatory Floyd listening session, gonna try it out on some of my metal.


----------



## pete~

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No audible hiss to my ears. I do have high-impedance headphones(600ohm), but there is no audible hiss to my ears.

 Volume pot is a 10k logarithmic, from memory. Don't take my word for it, as someone else will be able to give you a more accurate idea.

 Volume pot only makes a difference to the headphone out. If you're using the RCA out sockets, then you'll want to bypass the headphone amplifier and use it as a pure line-out.

 Anyway... onto more pressing matters...

  Code:



		Code:
	

[left]Date#LocationDelivery Status 19-Jul-2008 Hong Kong Item posted and is being processed. 19-Jul-2008 Hong Kong In transit. 21-Jul-2008 Hong Kong Processed for departure. 21-Jul-2008 Hong Kong The item left Hong Kong for its destination on 22-Jul-2008 23-Jul-2008 United Kingdom Arrived and is being processed. 23-Jul-2008 United Kingdom In transit. 24-Jul-2008 United Kingdom Arrived the delivery office and is being processed.[/left]


Anyone reckon I'll see it today? :-D

 ~Phewl._

 


 but the rca output is controlled by the volume pot and isn't it a separate amp which does this from the headphone amp?


----------



## richierich

I'm trying to get some OP AMPS from Linear Tech. But I am confused as to which ones to request samples of. 

 "Part Number Description Package #LDS QTY 
 LT1364CN8#PBF Dual 6mA 70MHz 1000V/uSec OA PDIP
 LT1364CS8______Dual 6mA 70MHz 1000V/uSec OA SO 
 LT1364CS8#PBF Dual 6mA 70MHz 1000V/uSec OA SO "

 Do I get the middle one? SO = socketed?


----------



## Oya?

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *richierich* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm trying to get some OP AMPS from Linear Tech. But I am confused as to which ones to request samples of. 

 "Part Number Description Package #LDS QTY 
 LT1364CN8#PBF Dual 6mA 70MHz 1000V/uSec OA PDIP
 LT1364CS8______Dual 6mA 70MHz 1000V/uSec OA SO 
 LT1364CS8#PBF Dual 6mA 70MHz 1000V/uSec OA SO "

 Do I get the middle one? SO = socketed?_

 

I think you want the CN8 one. If you look up LT1364 on eBay, it's of that type.


----------



## richierich

Thanks Oya. I just did a search (sorry heh) and someone said get the PDIP versions.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_its ok i will probably get it.

 whats the hiss like on the zero? 

 any hiss or hum through the speakers? 

 also i am going to upgrade the volume pot. what is the resistance of it?_

 

Very little to no hiss at all. I can detect nothing but inky blackness with the HDAM. The pot is not an off the shelf Alps. Email Lawrence to have him install it when you place the order. Do a search of thread and put in Zero Alps pot in the query window...you'll get all the details...

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oya?* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think you want the CN8 one. If you look up LT1364 on eBay, it's of that type._

 

Yup that's the one...DIP package.....

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_but the rca output is controlled by the volume pot and isn't it a separate amp which does this from the headphone amp?_

 

If you engage the headphone amp with the button on the front panel the volume then regulates the analog output level. If you leave that part off it's a fixed line out bypassing the head amp and volume pot section entirely......all the Zero's many functions and features are all explained very very well by Penchum's page 1 review......take some time while the Zero is still in transit to familiarize yourself with the unit. It's an excellent read 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 You will have the Zero tomorrow by the looks of the tracking report....

 Peete.


----------



## richierich

Hi guys how do the HD650s sound straight from the Zero's internal amp? Will they be able to be powered fully?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *richierich* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys how do the HD650s sound straight from the Zero's internal amp? Will they be able to be powered fully?_

 

They sound pretty good, the head amp section is easily able to push them to unsafe levels. 

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oya?* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My HDAM arrived today; I had a bit of a chuckle because it looks like it belongs right at home in the Zero, since the cable length is just right. There's even a grounding point right next to it on the head-amp PCB. Good old Lawrence. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just finished the obligatory Floyd listening session, gonna try it out on some of my metal. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






_

 


 That looks cool OYA......what do you think of the HDAM...just some preliminary thoughts....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Garret Jax

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They sound pretty good, the head amp section is easily able to push them to unsafe levels. 

 Peete._

 


 Glad to hear it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have a Zero DAC and HD-650's being shipped to me, and I am really stoked.

 !!!


----------



## Oya?

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That looks cool OYA......what do you think of the HDAM...just some preliminary thoughts....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

I remembered that you one of the words you used to describe it was that it made the music 'effortless'. I feel that to be quite apt. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Improved separation. The other thing I noticed from casual a A/B with stock was that instruments at the left-right extremities and instruments seated far back in the background were clearer, instead of getting drowned out (probably what most people would describe as an 'improved sound-stage'). I really wouldn't be too confident in describing anything else beyond that, seeing as I've not done a proper double-blind.

 I find myself wondering if I should keep the AD8620s in the head-amp; do you remember any impressions regarding OPA627s in that section? Thinking of ordering another set from Lawrence. Probably a silly endeavor anyways, since I quite enjoy what's there now.


----------



## Garret Jax

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oya?* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I remembered that you one of the words you used to describe it was that it made the music 'effortless'. I feel that to be quite apt. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Improved separation. The other thing I noticed from casual a A/B with stock was that instruments at the left-right extremities and instruments seated far back in the background were clearer, instead of getting drowned out (probably what most people would describe as an 'improved sound-stage'). I really wouldn't be too confident in describing anything else beyond that, seeing as I've not done a proper double-blind.

 I find myself wondering if I should keep the AD8620s in the head-amp; do you remember any impressions regarding OPA627s in that section? Thinking of ordering another set from Lawrence. Probably a silly endeavor anyways, since I quite enjoy what's there now._

 


 My Zero DAC will have the OPA627s - can these be replaced with HDAM? What is the cheapest way to get HDAM? I would like to do an A-B comparison.


----------



## Oya?

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Garret Jax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Zero DAC will have the OPA627s - can these be replaced with HDAM? What is the cheapest way to get HDAM? I would like to do an A-B comparison._

 

Cheapest place to get them would be from Lawrence if he has stock; they're $80US each; Burson Audio sells them also for a jacked up price (roughly $150 each). I'm not sure who manufactures Lawrence's HDAMs; it says "Audio GD" on the module.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oya?* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I remembered that you one of the words you used to describe it was that it made the music 'effortless'. I feel that to be quite apt. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Improved separation. The other thing I noticed from casual a A/B with stock was that instruments at the left-right extremities and instruments seated far back in the background were clearer, instead of getting drowned out (probably what most people would describe as an 'improved sound-stage'). I really wouldn't be too confident in describing anything else beyond that, seeing as I've not done a proper double-blind.

 I find myself wondering if I should keep the AD8620s in the head-amp; do you remember any impressions regarding OPA627s in that section? Thinking of ordering another set from Lawrence. Probably a silly endeavor anyways, since I quite enjoy what's there now._

 

I'll address the opamp question first ...the 627's I have are BP versions meaning a much larger adapter. I can get the left channel set of 627's in the head amp section but the right channel doesn't have enough clearance from the back of the volume pot to allow it to seat in the socket. With the smaller AU package adapter that problem is solved. So I never did get a chance to try that out. The only other opamps I have are some AD825's and the rest all Linear Tech. I use the LT1364's in H/Amp section when I happen to use that function. Not all that often because of the MK III...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The HDAM for me is both hard to describe and easy to describe at the same time......it reveals things to such a strartling degree it takes a while to comprehend what your hearing at first. It's beyond the usual statement of "hearing my music all over again in a new light" for me that seemed somewhat of an understatement. With good source material you'll be able to see into the artist's concept for that piece of music, simultaneous to that the mixing desk's very careful layering of the recording. It manages to reveal this without being hyper analytical or dry. As you have observed it does this while remaining musical seemingly doing it without fatigue or effort....quite remarkable combination of attributes really. It's not the be all or end all...but it's quite excellent for what the thing costs. Sorry for rambling on about it...I'm still impressed by it every time I put the headphones on and crank her up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oya?* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cheapest place to get them would be from Lawrence if he has stock; they're $80US each; Burson Audio sells them also for a jacked up price (roughly $150 each). I'm not sure who manufactures Lawrence's HDAMs; it says "Audio GD" on the module._

 


 Chinese OEM. Both Burson and Lawrence get there HDAMs from the same place, he told me so himself back in March last spring.

 Peete.


 PS G- nite gents...it's 3:40 am here and I need to be up in 3 hours...yikes..


----------



## Oya?

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll address the opamp question first ...the 627's I have are BP versions meaning a much larger adapter. I can get the left channel set of 627's in the head amp section but the right channel doesn't have enough clearance from the back of the volume pot to allow it to seat in the socket. With the smaller AU package adapter that problem is solved. So I never did get a chance to try that out. The only other opamps I have are some AD825's and the rest all Linear Tech. I use the LT1364's in H/Amp section when I happen to use that function. Not all that often because of the MK III...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I see, thanks. I didn't plan on using anything particularly pricey in the head-amp section since I wanted to use the Zero with a Little Dot amp; had my eyes on MK III because it's so irresistibly priced. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But now I think I'm going to stick with the Zero's amp for a while, so I might as well stick some fancy op-amps in there.

  Quote:


 *The HDAM for me is both hard to describe and easy to describe at the same time......it reveals things to such a strartling degree it takes a while to comprehend what your hearing at first*. It's beyond the usual statement of "hearing my music all over again in a new light" for me that seemed somewhat of an understatement. With good source material you'll be able to see into the artist's concept for that piece of music, simultaneous to that the mixing desk's very careful layering of the recording. It manages to reveal this without being hyper analytical or dry. As you have observed it does this while remaining musical seemingly doing it without fatigue or effort....quite remarkable combination of attributes really. It's not the be all or end all...but it's quite excellent for what the thing costs. Sorry for rambling on about it...I'm still impressed by it every time I put the headphones on and crank her up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete. 
 

Very well put! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm enjoying listening to my more familiar albums through the HDAM; getting myself acquainted, so to say.


----------



## minivan

chinese oem for the hdam is here
ºÎÇì»ªÔ*´´ÒôÏì
 as u can see from their web page they have lots of different hdam and each has it's own flavor
 i dont think the burson one is oem from the audio gd, they have their own in house design.
 has any1 try this on their zero dac? the Lampizator tube output
ZERODAC


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you engage the headphone amp with the button on the front panel the volume then regulates the analog output level. If you leave that part off it's a fixed line out bypassing the head amp and volume pot section entirely......all the Zero's many functions and features are all explained very very well by Penchum's page 1 review......take some time while the Zero is still in transit to familiarize yourself with the unit. It's an excellent read 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Exactly what Peete said above. You _can_ configure the Zero to use the volume pot on the RCA outs, but it isn't the default mode. Default is standard line-out without a volume control, just like any other component with RCA out.

  Quote:


 You will have the Zero tomorrow by the looks of the tracking report....

 Peete. 
 

That's my shipping report Peete 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Still sitting here, patiently waiting... I have to go out in 2 hours 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Hope I don't miss it! :S

 ~Phewl.


----------



## sum1

Hi Guys,
 I am tempted in getting one of this. I didnt/cant read this whole thread but as i get it the reliability issue(Shoddy power supply???) of this amp has been sort out right? Also it seem like the best way to buy this is from Lawrence since he will help if your zero dies right?

 Also what is this head-fi package that you can get from Lawrence, what's the price of the package and how can i get this package?

 Sorry for dumping a lot question guys but this thread is getting too big to find quick info from it.

 Thanks in advance.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sum1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Guys,
 I am tempted in getting one of this. I didnt/cant read this whole thread but as i get it the reliability issue(Shoddy power supply???) of this amp has been sort out right? Also it seem like the best way to buy this is from Lawrence since he will help if your zero dies right?

 Also what is this head-fi package that you can get from Lawrence, what's the price of the package and how can i get this package?

 Sorry for dumping a lot question guys but this thread is getting too big to find quick info from it.

 Thanks in advance._

 

Email Lawrence at lawrencechanbig@msn.com and tell him you wish to purchase a Zero with the HeadFi deal. He'll send you a PayPal payment thing to purchase it with. The deal is for $139 + 40 shipping in USD.

 The power supply thing was fixed back in December, so it's not an issue anymore. The HeadFi deal consists of a new Zero, with the DAC Opamp upgrade to two OPA627AU's on an adapter, and the Headphone amp Opamp upgrade to two of the LT1364 Opamps.

 This combo of upgrade Opamps is the preferred combo by many HeadFi'ers. It makes the DAC output wonderful for driving a separate headphone amp, and the internal headphone amp is much improved by the LT1364s, and works well for most headphones.


----------



## EmptyTalk

Lawrence should pay Penchum et al. to put together a Zero FAQ page or something. There is a goldmine of information in this ridiculously long thread, which certainly has driven sales up. I wonder how many units have been sold due to this thread?


----------



## darkkai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EmptyTalk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lawrence should pay Penchum et al. to put together a Zero FAQ page or something. There is a goldmine of information in this ridiculously long thread, which certainly has driven sales up. I wonder how many units have been sold due to this thread?_

 

Probably a lot! i know I just got one too, thanks to Pench!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

AudioPhewl;4515861 
 
 
 
 That's my shipping report Peete [img said:
			
		

> http://www.head-fi.org/forums/images/smilies/smily_headphones1.gif[/img]. Still sitting here, patiently waiting... I have to go out in 2 hours
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Oh...LOL.....boy oh boy.......sometimes a brain needs sleep, I keep forgetting that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hope you get it soon AP.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *minivan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_chinese oem for the hdam is here
ºÎÇì»ªÔ*´´ÒôÏì
 as u can see from their web page they have lots of different hdam and each has it's own flavor
 i dont think the burson one is oem from the audio gd, they have their own in house design.
 has any1 try this on their zero dac? the Lampizator tube output
ZERODAC_

 

Hi Minivan.......thanks for that link....as a chronic tinkerer this type of stuff is like gold to me.....the lampizator looks neat... 

 This line from the bottom link kills me "Apparently, subtle LED is unknown in Asia." LOL.....

 Peete.


----------



## davve

my hdam is in customs


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EmptyTalk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lawrence should pay Penchum et al. to put together a Zero FAQ page or something. There is a goldmine of information in this ridiculously long thread, which certainly has driven sales up. I wonder how many units have been sold due to this thread?_

 


 Already done....page 1 is as good as you'll get for a FAQ of the stock Zero and it's many opamp's.

 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh...LOL.....boy oh boy.......sometimes a brain needs sleep, I keep forgetting that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hope you get it soon AP.

 Peete._

 

Arrived today. Intercepted the delivery truck on the pub car park, as I'd missed him at home.

 Not had a chance to power up yet. Time for dinner, followed by many hours of musical illusion 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 Hopefully. After all the problems I've had, I'm half expecting to find it fail toturn on... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## matrix200

Hey guys I am a new and happy owner of ZERO dac 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Wanted to ask , is it OK to leave it on for long periods of times (like for the night) or should I turn it off for these occasions?


----------



## AudioPhewl

Oh dear. AudioPhewl is not a happy bunny.

  Quote:


 Lawrence,

 I am not happy. I will give you the benefit of the doubt for the time being, but if the matter is not resolved in a timely manner, I shall open a Paypal dispute and file a chargeback on my credit card.

 My main issue is that only one channel of the DAC is working - the left one. The right channel is very quiet, but does have some output. I removed the case to check the OPA627s were correctly seated, but they are not there. Nor are the Linear Technology opamps in the headphone amplifier module. There is also a noticeable scratch on the metal casing.

 I _specifically_ requested[email dated 3rd July 2008] the DAC with the opamp upgrades.

 I now have the lower specification package, despite paying the higher cost. And not only that, it doesn't work correctly. It also took 2 weeks longer than originally discussed for me to receive the part.

 Please let me know how to proceed from here.

 Regards,

 ~AudioPhewl 
 

What a total waste of time this is turning out to be. I know the guy has many happy customers in this thread, but he's seriously dropped the ball with my order from start to finish.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *matrix200* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys I am a new and happy owner of ZERO dac 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Wanted to ask , is it OK to leave it on for long periods of times (like for the night) or should I turn it off for these occasions?_

 

They do run quite warm, but should be fine. In an ideal world, less power cycles are better than powering up and down each day.

 Most of my electronics gear is left on 24/7, with no ill-effect(over many years).

 The exception to the rule is something mechanical - a valve amplifier, for example. They will wear out, even when not in use.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## matrix200

Hey , thanks for the answer!
 I am on your side here.
 I run all my stuff for very long periods of times too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Even my Windows computer stays on for a few weeks at a time.
 I also have hooked it up to my UPS (APC SMARTUPS SC620) to protect my valuable investment


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *matrix200* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Even my Windows computer stays on for a few weeks at a time._

 

I'd have not believed you 10 years ago 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. It's come a long way since then...

 My DAC purchase hasn't been a total disappointment. I ordered a pair of SOIC-DIP adapters from Lawrence, which did come with my order. I've currently got a pair of THS4031 opamps sitting in my old CD player, and they've made a huge difference. Brilliant, clean vocals and midrange...

 ETA - I've just fitted a pair of OPA827s to it. Not as clean as the THS4031, but pretty darned good! I'll play with the two for a few hours before posting my thoughts.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## matrix200

Hey I am very sorry to hear what happened to you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I got my unit from an ebayer named wsz0304 (got an upgrade version which is slightly different from the one you are talking about).
 The only difference in my upgrade version according to the page is OPA627 instead of OPA2604.
 One thing I liked about this guy is extremely fast shipping.
 I got my unit in a little less then a week (China to Israel).
 This probably the fastest shipping ever for me (on ebay that is).


----------



## Pricklely Peete

AP I feel bad for you......It certainly does look like LC dropped the ball on your Zero. Hopefully this will get taken care of quickly and to your complete satisfaction. Lawrence is a stand up guy he'll take care of you properly...

 I know it stinks.....it's happened to me on a number of different occasions with other pieces of gear (needed 2 transports swapped in the Tjoeb before it worked properly) over the years. Had a 2500.00 US boutique SS amp made in the USA go up in smoke ten minutes after unpacking and testing it out (turned out to be a bum toroid)....a number of other mishaps over the years...I'm not trying to make any excuses for your Zero...I just know exactly how you feel !!!

 Hang in there and wait for Lawrence to get back to you..

 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Cheers Peete, I'm less angry now I've had a chance to play with these little SOIC opamps. I used the THS4032 on a soundcard a couple of years back... it was excellent. A total revelation compared to the stock JRC nonsense.

 The THS4031 is bloody good. Compared to the OPA2134 I'd been using before, it's like going from a cassette with Dolby B to no noise reduction(obviously, without the hiss). It's a big difference - everything has a greater feel of air and ambience.

 The OPA827... well, it surprised me. I was never all that keen on the 627. It was good, but offered less resolution than the LT1028 I've been so fond of for a couple of years. It arguably gave more atmosphere, but lacked outright detail.

 The OPA827 is better than the THS4031. I can't compare it side-by-side to my old favourite, the 1028, because I only have DIP8 1028s, and no adapter boards. But I'm betting the 827 would be very comparable to the 1028. It offers nicely rounded bass - not too much, not too little - with the 627s atmosphere. But it does this whilst singing like the LT1028... it offers great detail whilst maintaining the musicality of the 627. It's my current favourite 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 Wish I had a Zero DAC to really give them a workout, but hey-ho... things are what they are. No point stressing about them - I dare-say Lawrence will come good in the end, and if he doesn't, then I'm only out by £80 or so. Could probably fix it, if I spent the time following traces and measuring values... it's probably only a duff capacitor or a dry joint or something. But I'm not giving it any thought, I shouldn't have to worry about such things with brand new gear 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 Wish I hadn't given mine to my brother! He's got the best deal out of all this, I'm sure! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Is the OPA827 TI's successor to the venerable 627 ? I heard some talk about the 827 a while back but I don't recall details on it .....

 Maybe you could swipe your brothers Zero back for a couple of days 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm such an evil person 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Who knows what the issue is with it, certainly wouldn't hurt to have a look....might be something simple.....or not....

 Report back when Lawrence gets back to you...I'd like to know how he handles this (PM me). If that's ok with you AP of course, otherwise I'll mind me own beeswax 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

I'll keep my experiences updated on here. I'd certainly not leave it with a foul taste after he's rectified the problem. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The OPA827 - I really don't know. Folk say it is, but then folk say it isn't. I ordered them as samples early last year, but haven't had a chance to try them out. My gut is that they are - the specifications are broadly comparable, the sound signature is certainly familiar to the 627. But it's definitely better, IMO.

 They're very good, and certainly worth ordering a pair if you can. I don't know why they're still listed as preview on the TI/BB website, they've been that way for ages.

 They're really, really good, from my impressions over the last couple of hours. Every so often I pull the case and stick the THS4031s back in... the 827s are better, and by some margin.

 TI only sent me one pair, otherwise I'd offer to drop some in the post to you. If you like the 627, I could see you falling for the 827... I didn't like the 627 - well, I didn't dislike it, I just couldn't understand the hype. But the 827 is better in every single area, from my current experience. It's so... immersing... intoxicating... It's more deserving of hype than the 627.

 I must sound like Andrea 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ETA - rather than take this off-topic(well, in over 450 pages, I dare-say I'm not the first! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), I've created a thread in the DIY forum dedicated to the OPA827.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll keep my experiences updated on here. I'd certainly not leave it with a foul taste after he's rectified the problem. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The OPA827 - I really don't know. Folk say it is, but then folk say it isn't. I ordered them as samples early last year, but haven't had a chance to try them out. My gut is that they are - the specifications are broadly comparable, the sound signature is certainly familiar to the 627. But it's definitely better, IMO.

 They're very good, and certainly worth ordering a pair if you can. I don't know why they're still listed as preview on the TI/BB website, they've been that way for ages.

 They're really, really good, from my impressions over the last couple of hours. Every so often I pull the case and stick the THS4031s back in... the 827s are better, and by some margin.

 TI only sent me one pair, otherwise I'd offer to drop some in the post to you. If you like the 627, I could see you falling for the 827... I didn't like the 627 - well, I didn't dislike it, I just couldn't understand the hype. But the 827 is better in every single area, from my current experience. It's so... immersing... intoxicating... It's more deserving of hype than the 627.

 I must sound like Andrea 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ETA - rather than take this off-topic(well, in over 450 pages, I dare-say I'm not the first! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), I've created a thread in the DIY forum dedicated to the OPA827.

 ~Phewl._

 

Andrea ? Hardly...your info is actually based on testing, rather than pulling it out of your arse, then flinging it at the wall to see if it sticks....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 dang I've given away Andrea's (double secret squirrel) test methodology 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Moving on.....

 I'll have a look at the TI site and see if I can't snag a couple....they won't get any use in the Zero other than the Head amp section though...the HDAM is unreal...I can think of a few other places to use a set...if I can figure out whats wrong with them first 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If these have been out for a while I wonder why they haven't got more ink...just thinking out loud AP. 

 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

I'm more than a little tempted to order the HDAM with my replacement unit, if he's got any in stock. Right now, I'm telling myself the 827 is as good as life gets 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

LOL.......I won't tempt you with anymore HDAM lore 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

I'll bet it sounds as lousy as an opamp when only one channel is working... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll bet it sounds as lousy as an opamp when only one channel is working... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl_

 

I dunno... let me get the side cutters and give it a whirl....................
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 Peete.


----------



## richierich

Thanks for another opamp to roll-in, AudioPhewl! Now I am curious to see how the 827 sounds. Darn you!!! haha


----------



## sum1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Email Lawrence at lawrencechanbig@msn.com and tell him you wish to purchase a Zero with the HeadFi deal. He'll send you a PayPal payment thing to purchase it with. The deal is for $139 + 40 shipping in USD.

 The power supply thing was fixed back in December, so it's not an issue anymore. The HeadFi deal consists of a new Zero, with the DAC Opamp upgrade to two OPA627AU's on an adapter, and the Headphone amp Opamp upgrade to two of the LT1364 Opamps.

 This combo of upgrade Opamps is the preferred combo by many HeadFi'ers. It makes the DAC output wonderful for driving a separate headphone amp, and the internal headphone amp is much improved by the LT1364s, and works well for most headphones. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks for the reply.Just wondering if a usb>optical converter is included in that package or am i just asking too much from that package


----------



## Summer Jazz

Hi Penchum,
 Thanks for the detail review of the Zero DAC (on the 1st page) & the op-amp combo selection. I have ordered my Zero with the default op-amps (I’m on budget). The upgraded version is 2x OPA627 (on a adaptor) in the DAC section & 2x LT1364 in the headphone amp section. 
 After checking your review on the op-amp combo selection, it seems like I can also swap the stock op-amp to a single LT1364 in the DAC section & 2x LT1469 in the headphone amp section, am I right? 
 Is there a guide line or something to take note of regarding about swapping the op-amps on both in the DAC section & in the headphone amp section (other than to take note of single or dual channel in the op-amp)? In other words LT1364 in the DAC section & LT1469 in the headphone amp section & vice versa.
 Thanks!


----------



## Enthusia

You know you could of ordered the upgraded version and paid the same price by telling Lawrence your from head-fi.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sum1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the reply.Just wondering if a usb>optical converter is included in that package or am i just asking too much from that package 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The USB thing isn't included in the HeadFi deal, but he does sell them, so you might get a break on shipping if you ordered it at the same time?? Seems worth asking him...


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Summer Jazz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Penchum,
 Thanks for the detail review of the Zero DAC (on the 1st page) & the op-amp combo selection. I have ordered my Zero with the default op-amps (I’m on budget). The upgraded version is 2x OPA627 (on a adaptor) in the DAC section & 2x LT1364 in the headphone amp section. 
 After checking your review on the op-amp combo selection, it seems like I can also swap the stock op-amp to a single LT1364 in the DAC section & 2x LT1469 in the headphone amp section, am I right? 
 Is there a guide line or something to take note of regarding about swapping the op-amps on both in the DAC section & in the headphone amp section (other than to take note of single or dual channel in the op-amp)? In other words LT1364 in the DAC section & LT1469 in the headphone amp section & vice versa.
 Thanks!_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Enthusia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You know you could of ordered the upgraded version and paid the same price by telling Lawrence your from head-fi._

 

Hey Summer,
 Enthusia's right and I'm confused. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 To answer the rest of your post, yes, you can put a "dual" Opamp in the DAC socket, as long as it is "unity gain stable". If you want to try the LT1364 in the DAC, it is recommended you put a heat sink on it, because it gets hot without one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As you found, there are many combo's to try and you may find one that suites you just fine.

 The majority however, end up with the OPA627's in the DAC and LT1364's in the headphone amp after months of Opamp rolling. This is why Lawrence developed the "HeadFi Deal", so you folks would get a price break and not have to look all over the place for Opamps and spend months rolling them.


----------



## matrix200

Hey guys a little help needed.
 I am getting pretty loud pops from my headphones from time to time when listening to music.
 This has happened about 3 times during yesterday and today.
 One time I actually heard that when there was no music.
 Could it be that the the RCA cable I use to hook it up to my soundcard's digital output is to blame?
 Or is something wrong with the DAC?


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


 Oh dear. AudioPhewl is not a happy bunny.

  Quote:


 Lawrence,

 I am not happy. I will give you the benefit of the doubt for the time being, but if the matter is not resolved in a timely manner, I shall open a Paypal dispute and file a chargeback on my credit card.

 My main issue is that only one channel of the DAC is working - the left one. The right channel is very quiet, but does have some output. I removed the case to check the OPA627s were correctly seated, but they are not there. Nor are the Linear Technology opamps in the headphone amplifier module. There is also a noticeable scratch on the metal casing.

 I _specifically_ requested[email dated 3rd July 2008] the DAC with the opamp upgrades.

 I now have the lower specification package, despite paying the higher cost. And not only that, it doesn't work correctly. It also took 2 weeks longer than originally discussed for me to receive the part.

 Please let me know how to proceed from here.

 Regards,

 ~AudioPhewl 
 

What a total waste of time this is turning out to be. I know the guy has many happy customers in this thread, but he's seriously dropped the ball with my order from start to finish.

 ~Phewl. 
 

To update the current situation, Lawrence has replied:-

  Quote:


 Dear Sir ,



 The dac has been ran in for one day before shipping out, please check it carefully. May be due to some careless mistakes!



 May be we have some cofusion in our email that we thought you only need adaptors for fabricate your own op amp.



 If not happy , please return the dac in original condition and I refund the item cost to you.





 Thank you very much !



 Best regards,

 Lawrence 
 

My response:-

  Quote:


 Lawrence,

 There is no mistake, the right-hand channel is significantly quieter than the left. If the left is at 100%, the right is at less than 20%. This happens whether it be through the headphone socket, through the RCA sockets as a line-out, or as a pre-amplifier.

 My initial email to you clearly stated that I was looking for the Head-Fi modified unit, and I asked what the modifications were. Your first response states the modified unit, with opamp upgrades, costs $180 shipped. I confirmed that I would take one of these units - all these emails were sent on the 3rd June. I then enquired about the availability of blank SOIC->DIP adapters, and adjusted the amount transferred by Paypal to take account of these extra units.

 Please check over your emails to confirm my intentions.

 I will gladly return the unit in original condition. I do not want the item cost refunded. The unit was faulty as received, and the order incomplete. I either want the order "made good", by the shipment of a working unit with the upgraded parts as discussed, or I expect a full refund of the money transferred, less the cost of the SOIC->DIP8 adapters, which are as described.

 I will need your shipping address, and confirmation that one of the above choices is acceptable to you, otherwise I shall start a Paypal dispute.

 Regards,

 AudioPhewl 
 

I'll update you again with any response received.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## katanka

Somebody posted a link to this guys website a few posts back, i just though this pictured looked so cool


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *katanka* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Somebody posted a link to this guys website a few posts back, i just though this pictured looked so cool
_

 

It looks like it's happy to see someone!!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

It's pretty cool...but remember in order for that mod to function, the head amp section has to be sacrificed in order to add the parts necessary for that tube to function. So it's a strict line out only DAC after that. How it sounds though...probably pretty darn good...

 Would make no sense for my set up. The MK III adds the tubiness 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's nice to see people taking this little dac/amp in different directions and being super pleased with the outcome.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


 PS Pench...is that a 6N6P in your pocket or are you glad to hear me ?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To update the current situation, Lawrence has replied:-



 My response:-



 I'll update you again with any response received.

 ~Phewl._

 

Oh my.........that second response will be crucial.....that's what I'm waiting for..

 Peete.


----------



## Nedman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would make no sense for my set up. The MK III adds the tubiness 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm using a Yaqin 6J1 tube buffer, with Mullard tubes at the moment, with mine. [Upgrading to a tube preamp and SS power amp in the next month or so].

 Seemed to make the bass a bit thicker, and expand the sound stage just a tiny bit. But then again it's hard to tell, which is doing what. As I added the buffer at about the 50 hour burn in mark, with the DAC. And have only put about 25 hours in burning in the Mullard tubes, and the DAC since then. 

 I just know it seems to be getting better all the time. My little Royd Minstrel speakers have never sounded so good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Hi Nedman......right on...that little buffer is supposed to be a good one from what I hear from others that have one. I keep forgetting my MF X10/X-PSU (Pink Floyd mods) is in the mix when I use the MK III.......lol....(slaps forehead). Until the PF mod I wasn't all that impressed with it....

 Peete.


----------



## NumpXP

i'm in dilemma, I'm now in Malaysia which use 220v, however, I'm going to the US for my final year in college later next month. The bulk price in Malaysia is about USD120 shipped. So I'm really tempted to get Malaysian version as it's cheaper and more secure for me to get it. If that so, I would be having total abstinence from my first ever (dedicated) DAC for a year in the US.

 I would like to ask whether i can buy power supply part for US voltage, and use it while i'm in the us. any idea? TIA!


----------



## AudioPhewl

^The PSU is switchable. The switch is located on the rear of the DAC, 220/110v.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh my.........that second response will be crucial.....that's what I'm waiting for..

 Peete._

 

I'm pretty darned underwhelmed by the response. Not really as enthusiastic as I was hoping for...

 PS - anyone have any idea why the thread I started about OPA827 seems to have been removed?

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I think he was hoping it was user error.......I don't think that's his current view or it shouldn't be....we'll soon see...

 Peete.


----------



## NumpXP

@AudioPhewl : thanks a lot bro!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's pretty cool...but remember in order for that mod to function, the head amp section has to be sacrificed in order to add the parts necessary for that tube to function. So it's a strict line out only DAC after that. How it sounds though...probably pretty darn good...

 Would make no sense for my set up. The MK III adds the tubiness 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's nice to see people taking this little dac/amp in different directions and being super pleased with the outcome.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


 PS Pench...is that a 6N6P in your pocket or are you glad to hear me ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ya exactly! That is one happy Zero.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^The PSU is switchable. The switch is located on the rear of the DAC, 220/110v.



 I'm pretty darned underwhelmed by the response. Not really as enthusiastic as I was hoping for...

 PS - anyone have any idea why the thread I started about OPA827 seems to have been removed?

 ~Phewl._

 

It was removed ? What section was it in...maybe it was moved ?

 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Nah, can't find it anywhere. Even searched for threads created by me, but with no result.

 I opened a thread in "General Discussion" enquiring about it:-
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f11/th...letion-347093/

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ya exactly! That is one happy Zero. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 


 I'd like to see a Lampizator done with a 6H30Pi gold tube....hmmmm....


 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

That's odd AP.....

 Scratching head at moment ......

 Run of bad luck lately bro....hopefully that's the end of it...

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Your "Team" sig ...LOL

 Hate to burst that bubble...but........Andrea definitely does NOT have jugs......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Suddenly I feel dirty.....

 Peete,


----------



## rds

does the zero use a dual power supply for the output filter opamp?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

It might just be dual mono from start to finish, everything is in matching pairs, filter caps,sec filter caps, voltage regs, diodes, analog section and head amp same story....as always I could be wrong....

 Peete.


----------



## rds

It's easy to find out. Just check if pin 4 of the opamp is zero


----------



## Seba

Yesterday I soldered SOIC AD8397's (aka "Grado-opamp") to DIP-8 plugs and put them into my Zero's headamp.

 First AD8397's sounded harsh but they certainly give more power to RS-2's low end and same time they give me more micro-details from music that I haven't heard before.

 I burned them in for 3 hours with pink noise and now the harshness has disappeared. If you have Grado's and Zero, you should have a try. All you need is basic DIP-8 plugs or sockets and some bending of the legs and then solder the SOIC opamp to DIP-8.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's odd AP.....

 Scratching head at moment ......

 Run of bad luck lately bro....hopefully that's the end of it...

 Peete._

 

Lawrence was strangely quiet last night. I normally receive an email ~3am BST(after every email I've ever sent him), but I received nothing after my last reply.

 Looks like I may have to start a Paypal dispute after all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

HI AP.......after 2 or 3 (I can't remember which) emails to Lawrence about an unrelated matter I received a reply giving the me the info I requested....it seems to me that everything is fouled up big time by the Summer Games.....what would normally take him a few days took nearly 8 (for what I asked for). I'm not making excuses...just relaying my experience thus far...the one mitigating factor being the damned Olympics....like a I care what juiced up lunk head can launch himself how far into a pit of kitty litter ?...WHOO HOOO...he's got the ball tackle him 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Crossover sports would be cool......Rugby-Long jump, Pole Vault -Football, 100 meter sprint- knitting, decathelon (sp ?) frisbee, skeet - fishing, underwater tennis, shot put- baseball (go through bats in a hurry), what else....nitro- ping pong (special one added for host country, closed to party members wishing to get rid of trouble makers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )..........50 M butterfly catching- with tiny nets on 5 m pole.....thats one anyone can do but not without safety glasses !!! ----trust me....






 Trying to lighten the day up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Certainly sounds more entertaining than the proper olympics! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl


----------



## Carter54

I was looking into buying this DAC/AMP but I do have one question about the review.

 Why does a digital or Solid state amp Require a "burn In" period? I understand the concept with Headpones or a Tube Amp but I am missing how an Chip would need to be bunt in before full performance is achieved. 

 I am new to Head-Fi and Headphone amplification so I am sure I am just missing something simple but I had to ask.


----------



## matrix200

Hey guys I don't know if you noticed my previous post about loud POPs coming out of headphones usually after the song stops playing (usually during silence ).
 Anyway after playing around I am thinking (still could be wrong) that winamp or maybe some dsp plugin I was using is to blame.
 I tried foobar and haven't had a pop for quite a while and now I have disabled that specific plugin in winamp and no pops yet.
 This is not a proof since those pops were quite rare and could take a few hours to happen.
 Still I am hoping the issue will be resolved somehow.
 Maybe my trouble will be useful to others when they decide to pair their Zero or any other DAC with a creative soundcard


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *matrix200* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys I don't know if you noticed my previous post about loud POPs coming out of headphones usually after the song stops playing (usually during silence ).
 Anyway after playing around I am thinking (still could be wrong) that winamp or maybe some dsp plugin I was using is to blame.
 I tried foobar and haven't had a pop for quite a while and now I have disabled that specific plugin in winamp and no pops yet.
 This is not a proof since those pops were quite rare and could take a few hours to happen.
 Still I am hoping the issue will be resolved somehow.
 Maybe my trouble will be useful to others when they decide to pair their Zero or any other DAC with a creative soundcard 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

What plug in on winamp did you disable ? For music playback Foobar2000 with Asio4all is great with my Auzen Prelude as the transport to the Zero. Haven't had a single driver issue or any weird pops clicks etc...Some winamp plug ins are awful (poorly coded).

 Peete.


----------



## matrix200

Well I am ashamed to admit , but I used to like fxsound dspfx plugin.
 Before Zero DAC it somehow made sense and made some of the music actually sound nicer to me.
 With the Zero it started revealing too many artifacts so I first disabled it by clicking on its internal poweroff button.
 I didn't uncheck it in Winamp though.
 Then I started getting those very loud pops usually when the music was not playing.
 This is somewhat rare (about once per 2-3 hours).
 I have tried numerous output plugins including ASIO4ALL and ks plugin.
 So far SQ wise I like ks plugin most since it still lets me control the volume from the winamp.
 Anyways after checking many things I figured it could be a good idea to fully disable that dspfx plugin altogeher by unchecking it.
 I think I have established that the problem lies within winamp because after I closed it and played a few songs with foobar with asio plugin I didn't have any pops during silence.
 Then after disabling the dsp plugin I have yet to hear a pop in winamp too.
 I am not 100% sure I got rid of the problem though.
 Anyway would you recommend getting a usb-toslink adapter and abandoning audigy's spdif output altogether?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Winamp for what it does is great...but for serious music listening I dumped it for Foobar quite a while ago....Winamp has gotten to complex and by that complexity is difficult to debug when you throw in the massive library of 3rd party plug ins. I seem to remember lots of folks complaining about pops and ticks with winamp and creative sc's.....winamp blamed creative and creative blamed winamp...never got solved AFAIK.....

 Peete.


----------



## matrix200

Yeah I have now found all those threads about hissing popping etc at winamp forums.
 This is too bad because there are some features of winamp that I am going to miss (like the very great ajaxamp plugin).
 The thing I dont understand though is how come this loud pop problem never showed up when I was using analogue output and became evident only when I started using spdif digital out.
 I am really hoping the problem lies within software and is not caused by some weird EMI effects on the coaxial cable I am using or worse yet means I got a defective Zero unit.
 The thing is I have lots of gear around the place and it is very hard to debug problems like that.
 I will be doing lots of testing in the coming days to isolate the problem and have it resolved.
 Will be reporting back if I find something interesting and/or useful for other members.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Easy enough to check...try another digital out on something else like a DVD player or CDP. Try another coax (if you have one), strip the system down to bare essentials and test it out. I'm almost 100% positive the problem lies with winamp.

 Just an idea or two.......

 Peete.


----------



## pete~

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's pretty cool...but remember in order for that mod to function, the head amp section has to be sacrificed in order to add the parts necessary for that tube to function. So it's a strict line out only DAC after that. How it sounds though...probably pretty darn good...

 Would make no sense for my set up. The MK III adds the tubiness 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It's nice to see people taking this little dac/amp in different directions and being super pleased with the outcome.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


 PS Pench...is that a 6N6P in your pocket or are you glad to hear me ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

but can this tubed zero dac be bought ready made and how much? 

 I am not qualified to carry out such mods.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Carter54* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was looking into buying this DAC/AMP but I do have one question about the review.

 Why does a digital or Solid state amp Require a "burn In" period? I understand the concept with Headpones or a Tube Amp but I am missing how an Chip would need to be bunt in before full performance is achieved. 

 I am new to Head-Fi and Headphone amplification so I am sure I am just missing something simple but I had to ask._

 

That's ok, its a good question that should be brought around every so often. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The capacitors need time to form up. Both the DAC and Headphone amp boards have a good deal of caps on them, and it has been the general consensus among Zero owners that 75-100 hours is required to "form" everything up to it's final operating state (even non-believers).

 That by no means should stop anyone from listening to it, as the burn-in progresses. Owners who have set it up to run 24/7 and haven't listened in, and owners who have listened to the entire first 100 hours, both report a nice improvement in the overall quality of both the DAC and headphone amp.

 Because of this, the majority of owners will recommend the "burn-in" time frame, before any critical listening or Opamp swapping takes place.


----------



## Carter54

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's ok, its a good question that should be brought around every so often. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The capacitors need time to form up. Both the DAC and Headphone amp boards have a good deal of caps on them, and it has been the general consensus among Zero owners that 75-100 hours is required to "form" everything up to it's final operating state (even non-believers).

 That by no means should stop anyone from listening to it, as the burn-in progresses. Owners who have set it up to run 24/7 and haven't listened in, and owners who have listened to the entire first 100 hours, both report a nice improvement in the overall quality of both the DAC and headphone amp.

 Because of this, the majority of owners will recommend the "burn-in" time frame, before any critical listening or Opamp swapping takes place._

 

Thanks for the Follow up I have never heard of this. I am not sure I will be able to hear the difference but I will definitely pay attention to the operating hours to see If I can detect a difference.

 Thanks


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_but can this tubed zero dac be bought ready made and how much? 

 I am not qualified to carry out such mods._

 

AFAIK that is completely a DIY mod. Schematic is provided on the web page (via a link). You could have someone mod it for you (local tech). Not sure how much it would cost for parts and labor....

 Peete.


----------



## richierich

I recieved LT1469 samples today and put them in the amp section. I only heard sound out of the left channel so I swapped them out for my stock opamps. Then the left opamp popped and basically went poof and up into smoke! Now when I switch out the stock opamps for the the LT1469s now I don't hear sound out of any channel. Can anyone help?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Did you orient the notches (facing away towards the rear panel of the unit) in the correct direction when you installed the opamps ?

 Peete


----------



## richierich

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you orient the notches (facing away towards the rear panel of the unit) in the correct direction when you installed the opamps ?

 Peete_

 

Notches = circles? Nope, I only oriented the opamps the same way the text of the stock opamps went (stock opamps don't have notches, only circles) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I can hear really faint music coming through one of the channels though. Man this sucks. I hope I didn't mess up my Zero.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

To clarify your talking about the headphone section with the N5532's (2 of them) that come stock with the Zero right ?

 If that is the case swap those opamps around (switch right channel with left channel ) and see if the bad channel changes sides...

 We'll go from there after you have tried that experiment.

 Peete.


----------



## richierich

Yeah Peete, the headphone section with the N5532. One fizzled up in smoke, and is now dead! It's so bad it cracked 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. So maybe all my opamps are fried. And I'll now have to wait for more samples to come in from LT. DOH!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

You only have one working opamp from 4 ? The stock set (2 x 5532 )and the LT's (2 x 1469 ....) or are all 4 cooked ?

 Peete.


----------



## richierich

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You only have one working opamp from 4 ? The stock set (2 x 5532 )and the LT's (2 x 1469 ....) 

 Peete._

 

Well I can't mix them together, can I? (1 5532 + 1 1469?) It's weird, when I install the 1469s with the notches facing towards the rear of the unit only the right onboard headphone section LED lights up. If I reverse the left one then both onboard headphone LEDs light up.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

It's getting late here.(1:25 am est)..so answer quick...please 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm heading off to bed in five minutes...

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

No don't mix them I just wanted know where you were with regards to good opamps.

 The way to test the Zero head amp section is to takes the 5532's and use those to test for both channels. If the good opamp is the right channel socket then take it out...set it aside for a second. Take the bad 5532 and place it in the right channel socket...now take the good 5532 you took out previously and pop it in the left channel socket.....if the dead channel's sound has switched sides with the good opamp then your Zero is fine and only the opamp cooked....you follow me ?

 I'll wait another five minutes...let me know what happens....(you won't get both channels back tonight ...I just to find out if the Zero is ok)

 Peete.


----------



## richierich

Thanks for the test Peete. The results? Yes I only have one good opamp left, a 5532, lol!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Sorry asked a dumb question and decided to edit out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.......I need some sleep. Be careful with the orientation marks on the opamps when you get the new ones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Hmmmm.......the only way to know for sure is to wait until you get another good 5532 or a new pair of LT's to test with. Your Zero still may be just fine we just don't have a good pair of opamps to check it out with. 

 Quick question...it was functioning fine until the LT swap right ? Seems like a dumb question...but really , it isn't 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## richierich

Yup, I think I accidentally mixed up the opamps because I switched out both opamps for the 1469s, and that's when I noticed only one channel was working. Then I think I only switched out the left one because I thought that it was for the left channel. That's when it went poof, and the left N5532 went up in smoke. 

 Sorry for being such a jackass. And thank you so much for your help Peete. I just miss my Zero so much already, because I just got my HD-650s in today as well! And my laptop's onboard soundcard just can't do both of my headphones justice.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I understand completely bro....I think once you get another set of good ones the Zero will be good as new. 

 Have a good night !!

 I'm hitting the sack jack 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## No Smoking

Does the zero do justice for the AKG k701 or the Denon D2000 when listening mainly to pop, trance and female vocals?


----------



## matrix200

Ok guys just an update on the pop issue.
 Unfortunately it is not a winamp issue as I just got a very loud pop when winamp wasn't even running.
 It happened while I was actually watching a movie in bsplayer.
 This is strange because until now I was always getting pops when nothing was playing.
 Anyways it is down either to soundcard/drivers or the cable/Zero itself.
 I am considering getting a usb-toslink adapter and checking this out.
 I will also be checking the power connection since it is plugged into a UPS with a few other things (2 computers , monitor , router and the modem).


----------



## Currawong

The Zero's headamp wont allow the K701 to reach its full potential, soundstage-wise I found with my pair. However, the more tube-like sound of the Zero was a nicer listen than my Apogee Duet.

 Having another listen through my D5000s directly out of the Zero, rather than through my MKV as well, the headphone loses only a tiny bit of soundstage and separation, which is quite impressive. If I'd bought the Zero in the first place, I doubt I would have bought the MKV.


----------



## Seba

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *No Smoking* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does the zero do justice for the AKG k701 or the Denon D2000 when listening mainly to pop, trance and female vocals?_

 

Try AD8397's in the headamp. Gives nice amount of current to my Grado's and even to my K340's so K701's should benefit from it too.


----------



## matrix200

Ok guys I am starting to think the problem lies within the DAC itself.
 I just had a few loud pops accompanied by a very strong hissing noise.
 This happened when I tried to browse my music collection on a different computer which is using wifi to access my internal network.
 This is most definetely a DAC problem because I have actually disconnected the coax cable leaving only the power on and the noise actually got worse.
 Looks like the DAC is receiving EMI from my wifi router which is located about 1 meter away (all the way up) from the DAC.
 Should I send it for repairs (The Zero that is)?


----------



## t3hggnore

Adding on to what No Smoking was saying, would adding the Little Dot MKV boost the performance of the K701? Or is does it still leave much to be desired?

 Also, I was thinking of setting up my first rig with the computer as source. What specific components would the computer need if I want to use the Zero? As far as I know most computers don't have coax or optical out standard.


----------



## matrix200

I am not a big expert , but somebody here suggested using this usb soundcard
Audio Advantage Micro - In Detail
 This one will give the toslink output and the Zero comes with toslink cable.
 Also many today's computer do come with spdif either coax or optical.
 I don't know about quality of those ports since I never used one for digital out (in fact never used any onboard audio).
 I must admit though that so far my experience with my digital coax output on the Audigy2 ZS hasn't been a positive one so your mileage may vary depending on the soundcard you choose.
 Something tells me that using optical should be better since it is won't be affected by EMI (atleast not the cable itself).


----------



## Enthusia

The little dot mkv is not a bad amp, there is a review on head-fi by penchum. The zero dac's headphone amp is okay, but adding the Little dot mkv will surely make your akg701's sound better.


----------



## richierich

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *matrix200* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok guys I am starting to think the problem lies within the DAC itself.
 I just had a few loud pops accompanied by a very strong hissing noise.
 This happened when I tried to browse my music collection on a different computer which is using wifi to access my internal network.
 This is most definetely a DAC problem because I have actually disconnected the coax cable leaving only the power on and the noise actually got worse.
 Looks like the DAC is receiving EMI from my wifi router which is located about 1 meter away (all the way up) from the DAC.
 Should I send it for repairs (The Zero that is)?_

 

Have you tried using ASIO4ALL drivers? Also, do you have a cellphone sitting really close to the Zero?


----------



## matrix200

Yeah I have tried ASIO4ALL and unfortunately it didn't help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I do have a cellphone but it isn't really that close.
 I also have a cordless phone (1.8 Ghz kind) which is also sitting not very far , but there is some distance.
 I also tried plugging the amp into a completely different socket far away from all other stuff and it didn't help much either.
 Then again since then I power cycled the Zero a few times and so far (approx. 2 hours no pops or any other kinds of interference).
 One thing that is surely causing problems is my big receiver (Kenwood 7020D sitting on a shelf about 2 feet away).
 I can verify it causes a noticeable pop when I turn it on/off.
 Another thing I don't understand is why the Zero itself makes a really loud pop when I turn it off even if no inputs are connected and the volume knob is turned all the way down.

 P.S
 Maybe I should take a picture of my desk with all the stuff so you guys can take a look and can tell me whats wrong with the placement of the gear that I have.


----------



## Headdie

Hi listeners !

 I'm happy driving my DT990-600 ohms with my NAD, but it's not as good driving my D2000-25 ohms.

 How would the ZERO match with the D2000 as an phone amp? Would it be a better match with some specific opamps?

 Thanks,


----------



## matrix200

Another thing I wanted to update on :
 Today I opened the unit to inspect its insides and found out I didn't get the upgrade version like promised.
 The unit comes with the default OPA2604 and not the 627 as I was supposed to.
 I have messaged the seller about the mistake , and hopefully will get a refund since I paid some 20$ more for the upgrade version.


----------



## Seba

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Headdie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi listeners !

 I'm happy driving my DT990-600 ohms with my NAD, but it's not as good driving my D2000-25 ohms.

 How would the ZERO match with the D2000 as an phone amp? Would it be a better match with some specific opamps?

 Thanks,_

 

Try AD8397's in headamp. Gives nice amount of current to my Grado's so could give nice power to Denon's too.

 Right now I have AD8599 in the DAC and sound is more crispier than OPA627's but same time a bit more aggressive and upfront. Rammstein has never sounded this good!


----------



## Enthusia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *matrix200* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Another thing I wanted to update on :
 Today I opened the unit to inspect its insides and found out I didn't get the upgrade version like promised.
 The unit comes with the default OPA2604 and not the 627 as I was supposed to.
 I have messaged the seller about the mistake , and hopefully will get a refund since I paid some 20$ more for the upgrade version._

 

That is very strange, did you buy from biglawhk? Lawrence gives the upgrades for free if your from head-fi, other than that you have to buy the adaptor and the opamps seperate from the zero dac which costs much more than 20 dollars.


----------



## matrix200

No I bought from a guy named wsz0304.
 He has 700 feedbacks on ebay and 100% positive.
 He did ship the item very fast and item arrived in a good condition (no scratches or any other external signs of damage).
 The PCBs and the components also look good.
 I paid $178.00 shipping included .
 Maybe he just made a mistake.
 I haven't got a reply from him yet though.
 I guess because it is sunday and he is not working today.
 This is not that big a deal since the price difference wasn't that significant .
 It is just that this kind of thing makes you not satisfied with the purchase.


----------



## matrix200

By the way I also ordered a replacement cable for my Senns because the 1/8 cable doesn't make a very good contact with the 1/4 adapters that I got.
 The Ety's don't even hold the contact and I have to press them against the socket to maintain the connection.
 Hopefully 1/8 will solve that problem.
 I must say that for the last 4-5 hours there have been no pops or any other strange noises coming out of the Zero.
 I am thinking maybe the power cable was loose?
 I think I plugged it better this time and I noticed that the power supply part is not as warm as it used to be.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lawrence was strangely quiet last night. I normally receive an email ~3am BST(after every email I've ever sent him), but I received nothing after my last reply.

 Looks like I may have to start a Paypal dispute after all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl._

 

Just to bring this thread up-to-date...

 "Lawrence" has failed to respond to my last email regarding the faulty unit shipped to me, with missing components. I've heard nothing from him since 2.49am 25/07/08.

 It is now 3 weeks since I placed my order. It didn't ship(despite assurances to the contrary) until virtually 2 weeks after my order was placed. I've had the unit since 24/07/08, and the fault was reported on the same date.

 I've had little option but to open a Paypal dispute over the matter. Anyone dealing with Lawrence, whose real name is "Chi Kwan Chan" according to Paypal, IMO should be careful. 100 glowing reports means nothing if you have a fault and are ignored.

 I'll gladly update this to the contrary if the situation is made-good, but at the moment, I'd be careful.

 Paypal protection appears to be bordering useless, as it was purchased outside of eBay. In the UK, this means Paypal have the following cop-out:-

  Quote:


 We're unable to decide this claim in your favour at this time. PayPal's Buyer Complaint Policy applies to the delivery of goods but not to disputes about merchandise quality 
 

Sadly yours 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




,

 ~Phewl.


----------



## matrix200

What can I say , this sucks.
 Looks like I am having some very similar problems to yours.
 I guess that means that opening paypal dispute won't help.
 I wonder if there any other means to get out of this situation.


----------



## Citizen86

Audiophewl, I understand that you're upset, especially with the delay of your shipment and now it isn't working, and I don't mean any offense when I say this, but you have to still be a little more patient. As far as I know, this is still just one guy or a very small group doing these orders, and you are trying to start a paypal dispute because he didn't answer your email on a saturday night (I think sunday there).

 .I know it sucks and you possibly have to send your zero back, and that's no fun, but you can't be expecting people to be working 24/7. You should wait until monday or tuesday to be trying to open any type of paypal dispute. This is all IMO, just like the rest of head-fi : p


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *matrix200* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah I have tried ASIO4ALL and unfortunately it didn't help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I do have a cellphone but it isn't really that close.
 I also have a cordless phone (1.8 Ghz kind) which is also sitting not very far , but there is some distance.
 I also tried plugging the amp into a completely different socket far away from all other stuff and it didn't help much either.
 Then again since then I power cycled the Zero a few times and so far (approx. 2 hours no pops or any other kinds of interference).
 One thing that is surely causing problems is my big receiver (Kenwood 7020D sitting on a shelf about 2 feet away).
 I can verify it causes a noticeable pop when I turn it on/off.
 Another thing I don't understand is why the Zero itself makes a really loud pop when I turn it off even if no inputs are connected and the volume knob is turned all the way down.

 P.S
 Maybe I should take a picture of my desk with all the stuff so you guys can take a look and can tell me whats wrong with the placement of the gear that I have._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *matrix200* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No I bought from a guy named wsz0304.
 He has 700 feedbacks on ebay and 100% positive.
 He did ship the item very fast and item arrived in a good condition (no scratches or any other external signs of damage).
 The PCBs and the components also look good.
 I paid $178.00 shipping included .
 Maybe he just made a mistake.
 I haven't got a reply from him yet though.
 I guess because it is sunday and he is not working today.
 This is not that big a deal since the price difference wasn't that significant .
 It is just that this kind of thing makes you not satisfied with the purchase._

 

Matrix200,

 I had a couple of thoughts about the possible EMI problems. One that I had, was my wireless card (built-in) talking to my router in the next room. I finally ran my spare CAT6 line to my notebook and turned off the wireless. Also, if you are using coaxial out to your Zero, and you are using a standard RCA cord, you should pick up a heavily shielded coaxial cord, made for this type of application. I believe they are 75ohm. eBay has a ton of them.

 As a side note, try to re-arrange things a little bit, and see if you can put some distance between your system and cordless phones, routers, cell phones, fans and other things that are notorious for spilling out EMI. Usually, you can find a way, after looking things over a bit. I'd also make sure none of those "problematic" items are plugged into the same circuit (not just same outlet) as your system, if possible. This one can be a tough one sometimes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Let us know how things go! I'll try to help as much as I can.

 Sorry it seems like that seller didn't come through for you. You are most likely right, it could just be an oversight.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just to bring this thread up-to-date...

 "Lawrence" has failed to respond to my last email regarding the faulty unit shipped to me, with missing components. I've heard nothing from him since 2.49am 25/07/08.

 It is now 3 weeks since I placed my order. It didn't ship(despite assurances to the contrary) until virtually 2 weeks after my order was placed. I've had the unit since 24/07/08, and the fault was reported on the same date.

 I've had little option but to open a Paypal dispute over the matter. Anyone dealing with Lawrence, whose real name is "Chi Kwan Chan" according to Paypal, IMO should be careful. 100 glowing reports means nothing if you have a fault and are ignored.

 I'll gladly update this to the contrary if the situation is made-good, but at the moment, I'd be careful.

 Paypal protection appears to be bordering useless, as it was purchased outside of eBay. In the UK, this means Paypal have the following cop-out:-



 Sadly yours 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




,

 ~Phewl._

 

AP,

 Sorry things haven't gone quite the way you wanted, or rather expected within a time frame. When a situation like this comes up, it is very knee jerk and common to "caution" others because of your perceived difficulty. The problem with that is, none of us can see what is happening on the other end. There is usually some "thing" that is delaying processes and we have no idea it even exists.

 Thinking about time though, there is much going on over there right now, and I bet weekends are all used up doing things with families. Hang in there man. This kind of thing has been extremely rare, and it has always been taken care of. I can't imagine why yours wouldn't be taken care of too.


----------



## richierich

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seba* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Try AD8397's in headamp. Gives nice amount of current to my Grado's so could give nice power to Denon's too.

 Right now I have AD8599 in the DAC and sound is more crispier than OPA627's but same time a bit more aggressive and upfront. Rammstein has never sounded this good!_

 

Analog Devices: AD8397: Rail-to-Rail, High Output Current Amplifier :: Operational Amplifiers (Op Amps) :: Amplifiers and Comparators

 Which AD8397 samples do I order from that page?


----------



## richierich

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *matrix200* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What can I say , this sucks.
 Looks like I am having some very similar problems to yours.
 I guess that means that opening paypal dispute won't help.
 I wonder if there any other means to get out of this situation._

 

It's Sunday. He should contact you by Monday.


----------



## Nedman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *matrix200* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No I bought from a guy named wsz0304.
 He has 700 feedbacks on ebay and 100% positive.
 He did ship the item very fast and item arrived in a good condition (no scratches or any other external signs of damage).
 The PCBs and the components also look good.
 I paid $178.00 shipping included .
 Maybe he just made a mistake.
 I haven't got a reply from him yet though.
 I guess because it is sunday and he is not working today.
 This is not that big a deal since the price difference wasn't that significant .
 It is just that this kind of thing makes you not satisfied with the purchase._

 

Hi matrix200, I got mine off wsz0304 [upgraded version]. I did notice with mine, the OPA627's were mounted on an under and over adapter. Not the side by side unit that I understand Lawrence uses. And I also found it extremely hard to read the printing on the on the op-amp [I needed both my reading glasses and a magnifying glass to see the printing on mine]. I'm not saying he didn't make a mistake, but it might be worth checking.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nedman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi matrix200, I got mine off wsz0304 [upgraded version]. I did notice with mine, the OPA627's were mounted on an under and over adapter. Not the side by side unit that I understand Lawrence uses. And I also found it extremely hard to read the printing on the on the op-amp [I needed both my reading glasses and a magnifying glass to see the printing on mine]. I'm not saying he didn't make a mistake, but it might be worth checking._

 

That's a good point! Those have to be the smallest letters I have seen in years! Worse than legal stuff!


----------



## Nedman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's a good point! Those have to be the smallest letters I have seen in years! Worse than legal stuff! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

My eyes are not the best now days LOL. After 35 years of doing very fine tig welding [around ½ mm was standard], I can't see much closeup at all now LOL.

 Just to be clear, this is the op-amp and adapter I was supplied with mine.


----------



## richierich

I have the same upgraded one as you Nedman, because I got it from the same seller as well.


----------



## Enthusia

Thanks for clearing that up Nedman and going above and beyond with the picture. I hope that clears things up with matrix.


----------



## NumpXP

i'm getting my zero this saturday (whee!!). any thought of using it with IEM, particularly triple fi?


----------



## P_1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *NumpXP* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i'm getting my zero this saturday (whee!!). any thought of using it with IEM, particularly triple fi?_

 

With an IEM you should really consider a volume pot upgrade or you might go deaf trying to get equal volume levels on the left and right channels.


----------



## matrix200

Ok guys I admit I might be wrong.
 I will recheck that later today and will let you know.
 The thing is I did find the 2604 there too.
 Does it mean that in upgrade version the 2604 is left on the PCB and they just add the OPA627?
 Anyways worth checking


----------



## matrix200

NumpXP , I have tried using it with my Ety's and after fiddling a little to eliminate some noise sources I was able to keep the noise to a minimum.
 It becomes apparent only about after 9 o'clock position.
 The weird thing is I almost don't need to turn the volume down because they sound about as loud as the Senns at the same position.


----------



## Summer Jazz

Understand a good CD transport is important. Any recommendation for a budget DIY CD transport (preferably one with a ready/built-in digital co-axial output terminal) to go with the Zero DAC?
 I plan to use the Zero in a hi-fi set up. 
 Thanks!


----------



## SLUSHIE

My Zero makes pop/crackling sounds just like matrix200's seems to, only mine does it after about an hour or so of running time.

 There are a few things that I think it could be.

 First off, the optical output. My PC can output DTS audio, Dolby Digital, and WMA Pro Audio. I've never used WMA, but the other two seems to work exactly the same, and the popping sound starts and acts the same way.

 The next thing I can think of is unreliable power. I have the Chinese version, So I have a power converter that up converts 110V to 220V. It could be that after an hour or so of running time it gets hot and the power output isn't as constant.

 The Final thing is that maybe the Zero itself is getting sort of hot.


 The popping is really annoying, and I find myself not really using the Zero because of it. It's my only amp, so therefor I don't use my headphones a lot because of it.

 Ive actually considered running an extension cord from the laundry room to test the power. Maybe I'll actually do that tomorrow.


----------



## Meliboeus

since you have both, Penchum how does the zero compare sith the LD mkV when used as an headphone amp ? It is not dual mono...but seems a well built amp...

 p.s. a simple question,how wide is the unit front panel ?


----------



## one-eyed-xander

Just a note that I've finally joined the Zero club. And wow, very impressed so far.

 My Zero arrived today from our friend Lawrence with OPA627AU + 2 pcs LT1364 upgrades already installed. (At least I think it did, haven't opened it up yet to check...)

 I've hooked it up with using the optical digital output of my Mac Pro, seems to work nicely.

 Anyway without going on too much about it, this is a simply fantastic amplifier. On first listen it seems to be a big step up from my previous amp, the Corda Move, although I haven't done a lot of back-to-back listening yet.

 One slight downside I had not seen mentioned before is that the transformer seems to be a little on the noisy side. It's not distracting or anything with the headphones on, but lets just say I'll be keeping it turned off when not in use.

 Also it seems to require only a slight turn of the volume dial to reach ear-bleeding levels of sound. I'm wondering if there's a gain reduction jumper or something internally?

 Lastly, while I'm asking questions: any way to get it to start up with the headamp output instead of the preamp output by default? Not a big issue of course, just wondering.


----------



## Garret Jax

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SLUSHIE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Zero makes pop/crackling sounds just like matrix200's seems to, only mine does it after about an hour or so of running time.

 There are a few things that I think it could be.

 First off, the optical output. My PC can output DTS audio, Dolby Digital, and WMA Pro Audio. I've never used WMA, but the other two seems to work exactly the same, and the popping sound starts and acts the same way.

 The next thing I can think of is unreliable power. I have the Chinese version, So I have a power converter that up converts 110V to 220V. It could be that after an hour or so of running time it gets hot and the power output isn't as constant.

 The Final thing is that maybe the Zero itself is getting sort of hot.


 The popping is really annoying, and I find myself not really using the Zero because of it. It's my only amp, so therefor I don't use my headphones a lot because of it.

 Ive actually considered running an extension cord from the laundry room to test the power. Maybe I'll actually do that tomorrow._

 

So you're sending Dolby Digital and DTS signals to the Zero? I am very surprised - I know it's a DAC, but I thought it was only a simple 2.0 channel DAC that decoded two channel LPCM. Does it DOWNMIX the DD or DTS to two channels?

 Do you get the popping when you listen to two channel music, too? Is your sound card set to 'two channel', or is it upmixing music?


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Citizen86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Audiophewl, I understand that you're upset, especially with the delay of your shipment and now it isn't working, and I don't mean any offense when I say this, but you have to still be a little more patient._

 

More patient? It took him 2 weeks to mail me a faulty item. Even if I give him the benefit of the doubt on that front, he still sent it incomplete despite my emails being very specific about what I thought I was ordering. I was told it would ship early w/c 6th June, which is when I paid him. He failed to update me on a single occasion without me emailing him to enquire as to the whereabouts of my item - it finally shipped 19th June.

 Other people are now starting to come out of the woodwork, having problems with him. Precisely how long should I give him the opportunity to ignore my emails(I've still not received a response to my last email) and empty his Paypal account? You also have to keep in mind that Paypal take 20 days before they even look at a dispute, going from previous experience. He has plenty of time to _"make good"_ the current situation.

  Quote:


 As far as I know, this is still just one guy or a very small group doing these orders, and you are trying to start a paypal dispute because he didn't answer your email on a saturday night (I think sunday there).

 .I know it sucks and you possibly have to send your zero back, and that's no fun, but you can't be expecting people to be working 24/7. You should wait until monday or tuesday to be trying to open any type of paypal dispute. This is all IMO, just like the rest of head-fi : p 
 

The way things stand, the guy has all but disappeared having mailed me incomplete and faulty goods, with $186 of my money. That money is a fair amount of dough to me. He always responded within 24 hours before I sent him the money, and a little slower since then. Even on weekends.

 Makes no odds if it's a team of one, or one-hundred. At the moment he's gone silent on me, after a problem arising. I'm not about to let that situation continue indefinitely, hence I started the dispute.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_AP,

 Sorry things haven't gone quite the way you wanted, or rather expected within a time frame. When a situation like this comes up, it is very knee jerk and common to "caution" others because of your perceived difficulty. The problem with that is, none of us can see what is happening on the other end. There is usually some "thing" that is delaying processes and we have no idea it even exists.

 Thinking about time though, there is much going on over there right now, and I bet weekends are all used up doing things with families. Hang in there man. This kind of thing has been extremely rare, and it has always been taken care of. I can't imagine why yours wouldn't be taken care of too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Would it be better for me to keep quiet, and allow other people to continue dealing with him on the strength of previous feedback? This thread is full of honest feedback; I'm just continuing that trend.

 If someone had a story like mine the week before I'd parted with my money, then I'd have sat on the fence a while so the situation could sort itself out. Had they kept quiet, I'd have been going into the situation totally-blind of others' current dealings with the guy.

 I'm not trying to ruin his reputation, nor stop people doing business with him. But at the moment he's shafted me, and has been un-impressively quiet since I offered him the opportunity to make things good again.

 I will gladly come in here and shout, in uppercase characters with a bold typeface, that he's decided to mail me another, complete with opamps, and collect the faulty unit. Heck, I'd even do it if he gave me an address to return the unit to. But at the moment the only updates are from my side of the fence, because they're the only updates coming from either party.

 He may be in jail for being drunk and disorderly. He may have ran-off with my money whilst sending me an older, returned unit.

 I don't know, and it wouldn't be fair on potential buyers for me to say nothing whilst being left in the dark.

 Sorry for the big post, and I'm sorry if folk think I should have say on the fence before opening a dispute. But they do take 3 weeks for anything to happen, which IMO is plenty of time for the situation to resolve itself. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cheers,

 ~Phewl.


----------



## matrix200

Ok guys I think I finally resolved the pops issue.
 Looks like my old junk receiver is to blame.
 I have hooked up the Zero with the RCA cables so I could use the speakers too when desired.
 Apparently this was a bad decision.
 After I disconnected the RCA outputs of Zero from my receiver the problem seems to be gone.
 I haven't had a single pop or any other unwanted noise since this morning!
 I am thinking the problem with the receiver is that doesn't have the third pin in its power plug .
 That is it isn't grounded properly.
 Since I have lots of things connected , everytime there is some interference in the power supply it got down the rca jacks right into my Zero.
 I was able to verify that by turning the receiver on and off.
 When the RCA output is connected I was getting a pretty loud pop. Not so now that RCA cables are disconnected.
 I am going to get an RCA switch so I can have my Zero connected to the receiver but have it electrically isolated when I don't use the speakers.

 Regarding the opamp used inside it is not 627 as I suspected.
 I got an answer from the seller.
 He is asking to get him a pics of the PCB so he can have a proof of the mistake.
 And SLUSHIE, I must tell that my problem also became evident after a while (most of the time).
 Do you have something connected to your RCA outputs like I did?


----------



## Citizen86

AD,

 I'm not saying you should stay quiet about the whole situation, and like I said, you are very understandably annoyed, actually I forgot about the extra stuff he didn't ship to you.... My biggest point I was making, that I probably wasn't very clear on, was that no company, big or small usually sends out emails on Saturday or Sunday, it's their day off.

 And Penchum isn't saying it should be looked over or ignored either, he was just trying to reassure you that there hasn't been any problems yet with Lawrence, and if there are, he will get them worked out... if you're the first guy he screws over, well... sorry. We'll have to be a lot more careful after this if that's what happens.

 But hold tight, hopefully he comes through for you. Like I was saying, he should reply tonight hopefully if he didn't reply last night (I think last night was Monday for China??), but it probably wouldn't hurt to shoot him off another email today in case he forgot 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Edit: Hopefully he's not drunk or run off with your money... but he's worked pretty hard to make a good reputation on Ebay and here, some earlier problems with the product, not him, and he worked hard to get them fixed. It wouldn't make much sense for him to now run off after all that work for $186 dollars. I agree, it's not a small sum, but still.


----------



## Garret Jax

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Citizen86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_AD, ... My biggest point I was making, that I probably wasn't very clear on, was that no company, big or small usually sends out emails on Saturday or Sunday, it's their day off._

 

Agreed.

 Also, though it is only one example, I ordered my Zero DAC on a Sunday, and it was shipped five days later. It's currently on a boat somewhere in the Pacific looking for me. I'm over hear, little Zero! Come to me!!!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Meliboeus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_since you have both, Penchum how does the zero compare sith the LD mkV when used as an headphone amp ? It is not dual mono...but seems a well built amp...

 p.s. a simple question,how wide is the unit front panel ?_

 

Hey Meliboeus,

 First the simple answer: The MKV and Zero's faceplates are almost exactly the same width size, and they will stack on top of each other. Some one ran off with my ruler, so I can't give you exact measurements. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you are running lossless files or a decent CDP, through the Zero's DAC (OPA627's), to the MKV, and then compare it to the Zero's internal headphone amp (with LT1364's), they both sound great. Where the MKV pulls ahead, is in dynamics and overall purity of amplification. Nuances that are not so apparent with the Zero amp, are easy to hear with the MKV.

 Some folks have commented that the Zero's amp (setup as above) is everything they wanted in a headphone amp, and that is a GOOD thing. It really does shine with the Opamp upgrades. It isn't the "end all" of headphone amps either. It's a decent headphone amp that has a surprising amount of detail and power, and it makes the whole Zero Unit just that much better. A nice combination is to have a separate tube headphone amp, being driven from the Zero's DAC. Then, you can switch to SS internally, any time you want for some variety. This makes for a great low cost audio solution.

 The MKV represents a whole different level of detail and purity. The better the source signal you feed it, the better the end result. I've been testing the Zero's DAC with the HDAM unit in place, driving my MKV for about two weeks now. The extra detail and dynamics the HDAM brings to the signal, is easily amplified by the MKV and the results are beyond my expectations. If I switch to the Zero's headphone amp, some of the detail, dynamics and sound stage are lost, by comparison. Does it sound bad? No, not by a long shot. It just can't keep up with the MKV's ability to amplify with purity.

 I hope this helps you out in some way.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *matrix200* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok guys I think I finally resolved the pops issue.
 Looks like my old junk receiver is to blame.
 I have hooked up the Zero with the RCA cables so I could use the speakers too when desired.
 Apparently this was a bad decision.
 After I disconnected the RCA outputs of Zero from my receiver the problem seems to be gone.
 I haven't had a single pop or any other unwanted noise since this morning!
 I am thinking the problem with the receiver is that doesn't have the third pin in its power plug .
 That is it isn't grounded properly.
 Since I have lots of things connected , everytime there is some interference in the power supply it got down the rca jacks right into my Zero.
 I was able to verify that by turning the receiver on and off.
 When the RCA output is connected I was getting a pretty loud pop. Not so now that RCA cables are disconnected.
 I am going to get an RCA switch so I can have my Zero connected to the receiver but have it electrically isolated when I don't use the speakers.

 Regarding the opamp used inside it is not 627 as I suspected.
 I got an answer from the seller.
 He is asking to get him a pics of the PCB so he can have a proof of the mistake.
 And SLUSHIE, I must tell that my problem also became evident after a while (most of the time).
 Do you have something connected to your RCA outputs like I did?_

 

Wow, that great you were able to find the problem. I wonder if you fixed the grounding issue on the receiver (new plug or something) if everything would be good to go then? Sure sounds like it would be worth a try!


----------



## matrix200

Well I want to be careful and wait for another day to make sure it is indeed not repeating itself.
 I will start taking measures then whe I am 100% sure it is resolved.


----------



## Seba

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *richierich* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Analog Devices: AD8397: Rail-to-Rail, High Output Current Amplifier :: Operational Amplifiers (Op Amps) :: Amplifiers and Comparators

 Which AD8397 samples do I order from that page?_

 

Just get the ARZ-version. Remember that you need some soldering skills and DIP-8 sockets.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

With DAC's you have to be careful the signal you send it is not a noisy one...it is very sensitive to emi/rfi, lousy (worn out, suspect) cables, lousy source material....only feed it regular PCM...no DD/DTS etc...make sure all that junk is off before sending it a bit stream to process....

 Placement plays a role...make sure it's not to close to the PC case or any other noisy source (wal warts, wifi router and pci cards, cordless mice or keyboards etc...)
 Where you plug it in and how you route the toslink/coax also plays a role. Keep the cables as far away from AC lines, UPS devices, other computer perifirals such as sub woofer modules with built in amps (these are noisy switch mode PSU's in the cheap ones ) Mine is 3 feet away from the PC turned 90 degrees away from the tower with the IEC cable going to a different outlet than what is powering all my PC stuff. The Toslink is routed 6 inches away from anything else going into the back of the PC card and it's all by itself going to the Zero.....it's slightly anal..but I've had (pardon the pun) Zero pops, clicks, ticks of any kind.....

 Peete.


----------



## matrix200

Peete , so you have experienced those too?
 And if you did let me ask you isn't toslink supposed to be 100% interference free because it is an optical connection as opposed to coax?
 In that case I could just go ahead and get myself a usb-toslink adapter.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Nope...just some crackling when I had my toslink too close to my APC UPS device (when I first set the zero up). Once I rerouted the cable...crackle quit.....been noise free ever since (this is with a dirt cheap freebie Toslink from the Auzen Prelude SC bundle). I have a nice glass toslink on the way in the post.....

 Peete.


----------



## davve

received my HDAM today, what is the white/black cable for, that is coming from the HDAM?


----------



## ianp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_received my HDAM today, what is the white/black cable for, that is coming from the HDAM?_

 

It is a ground. You may or may not need it. I didn't, so I just secured it by tucking it under some other wires.

 IAP


----------



## davve

pricklely peete, can you send a pics on the cap mod on the hdam? thanks


----------



## matrix200

Peete thanks for the advice.
 Actually I found some other devices which cause pops when turned on/off.
 The question is what can be done.
 Would getting an additional power filter (surge protector) just for the plug used by Zero help?
 I think APC make those too.

 Another thing I wanted to ask :
 How come the headphone output makes a really loud pop when the unit is turned off?
 This happens even if I turn the volume all the way down.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Can't hurt......a nice line conditioner from Art or Monster,Belkin,PS Audio etc.....would help quite a bit but isn't absolutely necessary...

 Beware of cheap surge arresters...you can get farely good conditioner for 70 dollars from American Musical Supply..the brand name escapes me for the moment....

 One thing you could check is the outlet your currently using...is it on the same leg (circuit) as a heavy appliance, like dishwasher,stove, fridge, dryer, AC unit, hair dryers etc.... ? That plays a major role in polluting the line with noise....for instance whenever my wife drys her hair in the downstairs bathroom the line noise created by the HD makes it all the way through my dedicated lines to my main rig and cause's an audible noise.....drives me bats.....at least it's temporary...I just hit pause until she's done. I tried tracing the circuit to see if I could isolate the bathroom plugs from my dedicated lines (in the basement), but the panel wiring seems to have no logical groupings other than the lines needing there own dedicated circuits...stove and dryer, and AC run at 240V instead of 120V and require 2 slots ganged each..

 I managed to isolate my dedicated lines from the Fridge,Dryer, and AC unit...but that damn outlet in the BR...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyhow just some more food for thought...

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_pricklely peete, can you send a pics on the cap mod on the hdam? thanks_

 

Sure, pm me with your email address and I'll send it off 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Citizen86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But hold tight, hopefully he comes through for you. Like I was saying, he should reply tonight hopefully if he didn't reply last night (I think last night was Monday for China??), but it probably wouldn't hurt to shoot him off another email today in case he forgot 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Edit: Hopefully he's not drunk or run off with your money... but he's worked pretty hard to make a good reputation on Ebay and here, some earlier problems with the product, not him, and he worked hard to get them fixed. It wouldn't make much sense for him to now run off after all that work for $186 dollars. I agree, it's not a small sum, but still._

 

Aye, I still hope that everything can be resolved outside of a Paypal-initiated refund. I'm just tired of the whole situation... we'd spoken for a few days before I placed my order. I played it on 6th June, on the understanding it would ship that week so arrive in plenty of time for my brothers birthday. It didn't, I have to give him mine... then when the new DAC finally shows up, it's broken and incomplete.

 I may be expecting too much from folk emailing over the weekends, but he was doing-so before my problems arose. I just get suspicious when someone goes scarily quiet after a deal-breaking problem comes up. I also don't like their email stating they'll refund my "purchase price" if I return the faulty unit - we've all seen the eBay auctions where the product costs $10, with $150 shipping. The only price quoted in our emails is $180 shipped... it doesn't sit nicely with the fact that he avoided saying in his email that he'd refund me the purchase price, rather than replace the duff unit.

 Also, from comments made on here recently, it looks like I'm not the first person to receive a standard unit after paying full-price. I think two other people have made similar comments... I should really start taking notes.

 I do hope he makes things good, and rest-assured I'll thoroughly document and give praise where it is needed. If it's needed... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 ~Phewl.


----------



## katanka

Hey AudioPhewl

 I too emailed Lawrence on the weekend and he usually emails me right back quickly, and i have not heard from him since i sent my mail over a day ago. The email was in fact about purchasing something from him, so i don't think he is ignoring you if he has not even responded to a future purchase.


----------



## Citizen86

Maybe he's in prison.... got excited for the olympics and partied too hard


----------



## AudioPhewl

Thanks, Katanka. It's reassuring to hear that there could well be an agreeable end in sight 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 Also, whilst talking to Peete, I realise I made the wrong assumption - I assumed that folk here who didn't receive opamp upgrades had actually ordered the upgraded unit from "Lawrence". It didn't occur to me that folk may be chiming-in who'd ordered the stock unit from other sellers.

 It's just annoying when things go wrong. Even more annoying is that I gave my original - working 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - DAC away for my brothers birthday. Had this one arrived when it was originally supposed to, I'd still have the working one and be laughing at my brother 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Penchum

AP,
 Did you brother like the Zero you gave him??


----------



## AudioPhewl

Loves it. I've considered sneaking in and swapping the unit out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 They're well-worth the $180, they really are. So long as they work 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## ianp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Quote:


 pricklely peete, can you send a pics on the cap mod on the hdam? thanks 
 

Sure, pm me with your email address and I'll send it off 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

I'd be interested in the mod. So any details and images that you can post online would be appreciated.

 I'm quite enjoying tweaking the heck out of things. I have a Monica 2 DAC that I have just added an RB SS IV gain stage to and am currently doing some tweaks to the Monica itself. The gain stage made a huge improvement and is well worth the time and $$. 

 Next, I'm considering doing the lampization mod on a ZERO DAC. I need some time studying the circuit diagrams first though.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

ianp the HDAM cap tweak details are at the Burson audio website,I can send you a pic but can't post it...it's way to big size wise...PM me with your email address... I'll send the pic. That's the best I can do for now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hold off on the Lampizator....you realize it eliminates the HDAM circuit entirely right ?

 Peete.


----------



## ianp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ianp the HDAM cap tweak details are at the Burson audio website,I can send you a pic but can't post it...it's way to big size wise...PM me with your email address... I'll send the pic. That's the best I can do for now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hold off on the Lampizator....you realize it eliminates the HDAM circuit entirely right ?

 Peete._

 

Ahh, OK. I'm aware of this page - Burson discrete Opamp 101 - are there others ?

 Yep, I'm aware that it would eliminate the HDAM. Which is why I have 1 HDAM and 2 ZERO DACs


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ianp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep, I'm aware that it would eliminate the HDAM. Which is why I have 1 HDAM and 2 ZERO DACs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 












 Bet they both work too! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl


----------



## glitch39

Quote:


 Yep, I'm aware that it would eliminate the HDAM. Which is why I have 1 HDAM and 2 ZERO DACs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 

have you done a side by side A/B? that would be interesting!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ianp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ahh, OK. I'm aware of this page - Burson discrete Opamp 101 - are there others ?

 Yep, I'm aware that it would eliminate the HDAM. Which is why I have 1 HDAM and 2 ZERO DACs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Cool.....2 Zeros 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Might be worthwhile looking into the 6H30PI gold pin instead of the 6N6P ....

 That's it for the HDAM tweak....

 Peete.


----------



## taso89

Sorry to bring up an old topic, I know this was mentioned before, but what will I need if I want to replace the DAC section with OPA627's? I will need two of those and some kind of adapter, right? 

 If someone could just link me to the right adapter for either OPA627BM, or OPA627AU, I'll get that on eBay along with the proper op-amps.

 Also are there any soldering skills involved with that or is it as simple as taking out LT1364 and putting the adapter in, followed by the OPA627's?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I'm back...found a whole whack of WIMA FKP's and decided to hot rod my MF X10 V3 buffer even further, bypassed all the big electrolytic caps with 1000pf and 2200pf WIMA's....then bypassed the 2 NP 470uf output electrolytic caps with .033uf Russian Teflons. Added 14 WIMA's plus 2 Teflons.

 It was tight fit...the Teflons are massive things....just powered it up and all is well...now does anyone have any idea how long the Teflon caps take to burn in ? I'm thinking the same time as V-Caps....(700 hrs).....I hope it's a little less...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 Peete.


----------



## Nedman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *taso89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry to bring up an old topic, I know this was mentioned before, but what will I need if I want to replace the DAC section with OPA627's? I will need two of those and some kind of adapter, right? 

 If someone could just link me to the right adapter for either OPA627BM, or OPA627AU, I'll get that on eBay along with the proper op-amps.

 Also are there any soldering skills involved with that or is it as simple as taking out LT1364 and putting the adapter in, followed by the OPA627's?_

 

I had a quick look on ebay and found this one [$30US]. But I have seen them cheaper, if your willing to wait and keep a watch out for them. 

 Just put OPA627 or OPA627AU or OPA627BM [it's best to try all] into ebay's search, and click international.

1 MODULE OF 2 Pre-Mounted BB OPA627AU Op-amps on Adapte - eBay Semiconductors Actives, Electronic Components, Electrical Test Equipment, Business Industrial. (end time 01-Aug-08 09:54:05 AEST)

 To answer your second question, their just pull out and push back in to replace them. Making sure you put them in the right way [there should be a notch or something to show this].


----------



## richierich

Man I'm going crazy waiting for my LT samples to come in. Otherwise I have no Zero DAC to power my headphones!!! The agony!!


----------



## SLUSHIE

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *matrix200* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_.And SLUSHIE, I must tell that my problem also became evident after a while (most of the time).
 Do you have something connected to your RCA outputs like I did?_

 

Nope, I've never had anything connected to them. If this is a grounding issue, then it might not be getting a good ground with the step-up transformer I have. This is what I'm using ST-300 HEAVY DUTY 300 WATT STEP-UP & DOWN TRANSFORMER

 I also turned off DTS. In my sound settings it has those 3 options, but I didn't know you could not select any of them and it would still work. I haven't had time to run it long enough to know if its done anything.


----------



## Oya?

Just another semi-rant; been waiting a few weeks for my replacement OPA627s but looks like they might've been lost in transit. Anyways, Lawrence said he'll send me another pair. The wait doesn't really bother me that much though since I don't really need it.

 He also mentioned he's been swamped with orders. I wonder how many of his Zero (and related accessories) sales are to Head-Fi members.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm back...found a whole whack of WIMA FKP's and decided to hot rod my MF X10 V3 buffer even further, bypassed all the big electrolytic caps with 1000pf and 2200pf WIMA's....then bypassed the 2 NP 470uf output electrolytic caps with .033uf Russian Teflons. Added 14 WIMA's plus 2 Teflons._

 

Love to see nude pics of your pimped Zero. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 How does it sound now?


----------



## SLUSHIE

So I dug for the box my amp came in and got the USB adapter thing and I have yet to hear a pop. Its been playing for about 2 hours.

 So I went into the settings and the highest output for it is 16bit. Its has bass and treble boost so that's kinda cool


----------



## matrix200

Thats great news!
 What kind of USB adapter is it?
 I wonder if I can purchase it separately.


----------



## ccschua

I would like to use zero for preamp only. I have been waiting for this mod. but I am totally noob in this, almost.


 Bypass job
 For the lazy people who don't want to install tubes - the easy SNIPIT bypass job is to:
 1. Remove the existing RCA sockets and install the proper Gucci jewellery.

 > If I use it for DAC section, can I ignore this.

 2. Lift the MINUS leg of 1st and 3rd decoupling capacitor - see picture of four Silmic caps in one row. (can be 2nd and 4th as well).

 > How to know 1,3 or 2nd and 4th. also how to know if its Minus or Plus.

 3. Wire the lifted minus leg to the RCA

 > To which pin ? if used for DAC section, can i ignore this.

 4. Don't forget to add ground to the RCA's

 again for DAC section, should I ignore this.

 5. Remove opamp from sockets.

 > ok just remove.

 6. If unused - remove the Headphone section altogether.

 > I will remove this.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oya?* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just another semi-rant; been waiting a few weeks for my replacement OPA627s but looks like they might've been lost in transit. Anyways, Lawrence said he'll send me another pair. The wait doesn't really bother me that much though since I don't really need it.

 He also mentioned he's been swamped with orders. I wonder how many of his Zero (and related accessories) sales are to Head-Fi member


 Love to see nude pics of your pimped Zero. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 How does it sound now?_

 

The MF X10 (tube buffer after the zero) got pimped out OYA 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It sounds much better now...will take a hell of a long time for the WIMA's and Teflons to form is the only drawback...I thought about taking a pic but then remembered this is the Zero thread....doh...sleep deprivation does strange things.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 At least it's a cheap buzz 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *richierich* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Man I'm going crazy waiting for my LT samples to come in. Otherwise I have no Zero DAC to power my headphones!!! The agony!!_

 

Hang in there big guy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Have a Vanilla Latte 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oya?* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 He also mentioned he's been swamped with orders. I wonder how many of his Zero (and related accessories) sales are to Head-Fi members.


_

 

Most likely all of them are........ Joe public looking for cheap dac/amp, googles it...sees head fi thread in first hit.... signs up as a Head Fi member...requests the member's deal when ordering from LC...boom a billion freakin' orders 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## matrix200

Ok guys a small update on the things.
 Unfortunately the pops problem is not completely gone in my case.
 I must say there has been a noticeable improvement after all the measures I have taken (rerouting cables , moving the amp to a different place , changing the power socket used etc).
 However there are still pops (very rare now).
 I have had one pop during today.
 The pops are also not as loud as the ones I used to have in the beginning.
 Anyway I think I will follow SLUSHIE's suggestion .
 I have already messaged Wang with a request to send me the usb adapter (I think he sells those too).
 Then I will be able to use optical cable and the soundcard will be actually outside the box which I hope will make things better.
 So far no response from Wang after I sent him the pics of the missing OPA627 , but I guess he is busy because he hasn't responded to my request on purchase of USB adapter either


----------



## Meliboeus

i was not able to get this info from this huge thread, what is the cheapest place to get the zero ? a further question...how is the "upgrade version" upgraded ? opamps only or other features ? is it fully stable just like the original unit ?


----------



## Garret Jax

CUSTOMS FTL?

 My Zero DAC has shipped and according to Hongkon Post, "The item left Hong Kong for its destination on 28-Jul-2008". I assume it only takes a few days to get to the US; I live in San Francisco. But will it sit in customs for a few weeks, or are they speedy about it? I just want to know if I can expect it by Saturday, or if it may take weeks.

 Thanks for sharing _your_ customs experiences, amigos.


----------



## richierich

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Garret Jax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_CUSTOMS FTL?

 My Zero DAC has shipped and according to Hongkon Post, "The item left Hong Kong for its destination on 28-Jul-2008". I assume it only takes a few days to get to the US; I live in San Francisco. But will it sit in customs for a few weeks, or are they speedy about it? I just want to know if I can expect it by Saturday, or if it may take weeks.

 Thanks for sharing your customs experiences, amigos._

 

My Zero sat in SF customs for a business day before being released to USPS. You'll get it very soon!!


----------



## Garret Jax

Another question for you folks:

 I will be using my HTPC's HT Omega Claro+ sound card to send optical 2 channel PCM to the Zero, which will perform the DAC and amp the signal for my headphones (HD-650). I've read that some people use the Zero for a pre-amp... why? Is it because the DAC is so good? I guess I am not sure why you need a pre-amp at all; most receivers and all HTPC sound cards that I've seen let you do equalization and volume control and the usual 'pre-amp' stuff.

 What am I missing, amigos?


----------



## richierich

The Zero is great for pre-amping because of the changeable opamps.


----------



## Garret Jax

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *richierich* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Zero is great for pre-amping because of the changeable opamps._

 

Sorry for being a noob, but what does that mean? So you use it as a DAC, then it sends an unamped signal to your amp, then to your speakers/cans. Where does the opamp fit into this?

 Thanks!


----------



## davve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Garret Jax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry for being a noob, but what does that mean? So you use it as a DAC, then it sends an unamped signal to your amp, then to your speakers/cans. Where does the opamp fit into this?

 Thanks!_

 

Hello! 


 You can read about Opamp on the linke below.


Operational amplifier - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Garret Jax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_CUSTOMS FTL?

 My Zero DAC has shipped and according to Hongkon Post, "The item left Hong Kong for its destination on 28-Jul-2008". I assume it only takes a few days to get to the US; I live in San Francisco. But will it sit in customs for a few weeks, or are they speedy about it? I just want to know if I can expect it by Saturday, or if it may take weeks.

 Thanks for sharing your customs experiences, amigos._

 


 Usually sits in Customs for a day, if the paperwork is correct...it's out the door pretty quick. Be patient you'll have it soon enough 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


 Date # Location Delivery Status
 19-Jul-2008 Hong Kong Item posted.
 19-Jul-2008 Hong Kong In transit.
 21-Jul-2008 Hong Kong Processed for departure.
 21-Jul-2008 Hong Kong The item left Hong Kong for its destination on 22-Jul-2008
 23-Jul-2008 United Kingdom Arrived and is being processed.
 23-Jul-2008 United Kingdom In transit.
 24-Jul-2008 United Kingdom Arrived the delivery office and is being processed.
 24-Jul-2008 United Kingdom Delivered. 
 

Mine arrived the day after entering the country. If there was any hold-up at customs, it was sorted in a day.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Garret Jax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry for being a noob, but what does that mean? So you use it as a DAC, then it sends an unamped signal to your amp, then to your speakers/cans. Where does the opamp fit into this?

 Thanks!_

 

When you engage the button control on the front next to the volume control...it serves two functions. With your headphones plugged in it acts like a headphone amp, turn volume down to zero...unplug your phones and presto the analog outs are now a variable volume level pre-amp to drive an amplifier for stereo system (using the front vol control)....etc..disengage the pre/headphone function and the Zero reverts back to a fixed output level DAC. Pretty cool.....

 The opamps in both sections can tailor the sound to the pre or headphone outs (same amp, different locations). When in DAC mode, only the main pcb opamp (be it HDAM or OPA627...etc) has influence over the sound at the analog outputs....

 Lots of flexibility with the little bugger 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Garret Jax

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello! 


 You can read about Opamp on the linke below.


Operational amplifier - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia_

 

OK, so the DAC processes the digital stream and produces an analog out; at this point, the signal is not 'line-level' and so the pre-amp amplifies it to line-level, then the analog line-level signal is sent to your amp. Correct? So the only people who would use this as a pre-amp are people who need it's DAC functions and its amplification to line-level functions for use with, say, a traditional 2-channel power amplifier.


----------



## coolchu001

Penchum, did you use the OPA627BP or AP? Now there seems to be the more superior version OPA627BM (but not dip version)... Have you tried that?


----------



## SLUSHIE

matrix200 this is the adapter that came with my unit when I bought it. MD Community Page: Xitel MDPORT-DG2

 Like I said, it only puts out 16bit. That could also be a reason why the popping stopped though.


----------



## azncookiecutter

Going to be picking this up very soon, and just wondering, anyone care to post for a link to Lawrence, whether his e-mail or e-Bay? Searching through a thread this long is a akin to a nightmare. Most likely going to get the HDAM module, and anyone know how it would fare with a tube amp?


----------



## Oya?

His eBay ID is biglawhk, and his email is lawrencechanbig (at) msn.com; 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 He doesn't list the HDAMs on eBay, so you can shoot an email and buy those directly from him.


----------



## matrix200

Thanks SLUSHIE,
 I will order this thing from Wang when he finally resolves the issue with the missing OPA627 in my Zero.
 Another question though.
 Are you using it with the toslink cable that came in the package?


----------



## SLUSHIE

Yes, I'm quite positive I am.


----------



## loonywan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would like to use zero for preamp only. I have been waiting for this mod. but I am totally noob in this, almost.

 Bypass job
 For the lazy people who don't want to install tubes - the easy SNIPIT bypass job is to:
 1. Remove the existing RCA sockets and install the proper Gucci jewellery.
 > If I use it for DAC section, can I ignore this.

 2. Lift the MINUS leg of 1st and 3rd decoupling capacitor - see picture of four Silmic caps in one row. (can be 2nd and 4th as well).
 > How to know 1,3 or 2nd and 4th. also how to know if its Minus or Plus.

 3. Wire the lifted minus leg to the RCA
 > To which pin ? if used for DAC section, can i ignore this.

 4. Don't forget to add ground to the RCA's
 again for DAC section, should I ignore this.

 5. Remove opamp from sockets.
 > ok just remove.

 6. If unused - remove the Headphone section altogether.
 > I will remove this._

 

I've been looking at that for close to a month and still not confident of the necessary equipment and steps to perform it. Hope some one can help us out, especially on the caps. Some folks here have done it so would appreciate some advice. 

 Just for clarification, we're not going for the tube 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As far as my understanding goes:

 1. The RCA is the only output in the pre-amp role. You have to replace + upgrade it. However, what are good sockets ?

 2. Judging from the 3rd pic on the Lampization mod page, the shaded area where one of the legs of the caps land is the MINUS. It doesn't really matter which way you look at the caps (left to right or right to left), just make sure the caps chosen are ALTERNATE.

 3. Wire MINUS leg to the RCA Signal Pin. Question is , which is the LEFT and RIGHT channel ?

 4. Question is , wire to which GROUND on the pcb? 

 5/6. I'm looking to keep the headphone section so that means going by the "traditional upgrades" of the 2+1 opamps.

 There are more instructions on the page actually:
 1. The "treble killing brown 220p caps" are to be removed. Or should they be upgraded instead ?

 2. "tantalum caps are ... added in parallel to the electrolytes which power up the DAC and the receiver"
 Whoa... this kinda means we'll have to remove board and add to the underside ?

 3. "four critical caps to be upgraded - power to the DAC and receiver."
 Any good recommendations for what kind of caps be good ?


 For refererence, the page again : 
Lampization Mod


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coolchu001* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Penchum, did you use the OPA627BP or AP? Now there seems to be the more superior version OPA627BM (but not dip version)... Have you tried that?_

 

Hi!

 BM? Humm. I've got a set of verified BP's and a set of AU's, but I've not heard of the BM's before (at least not in an Opamp). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Do you have any info on them, or a link??

 The old AP vs. BP never really had a clear winner. Depending on the headphones used, some liked the AP better, even though there were plenty of folks reporting the BP was better. It's not hard to guess they sound very similar to each other.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *azncookiecutter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Going to be picking this up very soon, and just wondering, anyone care to post for a link to Lawrence, whether his e-mail or e-Bay? Searching through a thread this long is a akin to a nightmare. Most likely going to get the HDAM module, and anyone know how it would fare with a tube amp?_

 

Hi azncookiecutter,

 The "HeadFi Deal" Lawrence is selling (New Zero + 2 OPA627AU's on adapter + 2 LT1364's) can be had for $139+$41 ship, if you email him at lawrencechanbig@msn.com and tell him you are a member of HeadFi, and ask him for the Zero with the "HeadFi deal". He'll send you a PayPal payment notice, and you pay with this. You can also ask him how long before he gets the HDAM modules back in stock.

 Hopefully, he'll be able to sell you exactly what you need. I would recommend the "HeadFi deal" because of the better Opamps, if he isn't going to have the HDAMs in stock for a while, and you don't want to wait. 

 The Zero with the HDAM, works very well with separate tube amps. I have tested mine with each of my tube amps with great results. I have also tested it with my MKV SS headphone amp, and the results are fantastic. No matter how you slice it, the HDAM represents a clear SQ improvement over Opamps.

 The cost of the HDAM will keep some from purchasing it and that is OK too. The "HeadFi Deal" Zero has excellent SQ and keeps the Zero at a ridiculously low price point, which has been one of it's strengths since the beginning.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Garret Jax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK, so the DAC processes the digital stream and produces an analog out; at this point, the signal is not 'line-level' and so the pre-amp amplifies it to line-level, then the analog line-level signal is sent to your amp. Correct? So the only people who would use this as a pre-amp are people who need it's DAC functions and its amplification to line-level functions for use with, say, a traditional 2-channel power amplifier._

 

I'll try to explain this pre-amp feature from a "user" standpoint.

 The default DAC output (RCA's in back) is fixed line level 2V, with only the source buttons pressed (optical or coaxial).

 If you want to have a variable output instead of fixed, all you do is press the "Pre-amp/phones" button (green light on) on the front panel, and the DAC output is now controlled by the volume knob on the front panel. (You can't have the headphones plugged into the Zero for this part to work)

 If you are going to use the internal SS headphone amp, you plug your headphones into the headphone jack and press the "Pre-amp/phones" button (green light on) on the front panel. Now the headphone amp is controlled by the volume knob. (If you have a separate headphone amp hooked up to the RCA's, it will not get DAC output while the internal headphone amp is active driving headphones)

 Having this feature allows you to control the volume (output) to a separate amplifier from the Zero. Not everyone will use this feature, but it can come in handy sometimes. Does this help any?


----------



## alxwang

I just bought one from here 
New! ZERO 24/192 DAC D A CONVERTOR , HEAD FI AMP - eBay (item 230271669592 end time Aug-13-08 19:48:00 PDT)

 and 

1 MODULE OF 2 Pre-Mounted BB OPA627AU Op-amps on Adapte - eBay (item 230274713664 end time Aug-23-08 09:30:00 PDT)

 and 

iPod Connector Line Out to 3.5MM STEREO MINI (imod LOD - eBay (item 230274718911 end time Aug-23-08 09:47:31 PDT)

 I did not pay the amount the seller want actually I made a deal with him
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Now it is waiting time now.


----------



## Citizen86

Audiophewl,

 No updates? It's Wednesday now, I hope you have received an email by now....


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alxwang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just bought one from here 
New! ZERO 24/192 DAC D A CONVERTOR , HEAD FI AMP - eBay (item 230271669592 end time Aug-13-08 19:48:00 PDT)

 and 

1 MODULE OF 2 Pre-Mounted BB OPA627AU Op-amps on Adapte - eBay (item 230274713664 end time Aug-23-08 09:30:00 PDT)

 and 

iPod Connector Line Out to 3.5MM STEREO MINI (imod LOD - eBay (item 230274718911 end time Aug-23-08 09:47:31 PDT)

 I did not pay the amount the seller want actually I made a deal with him
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Now it is waiting time now.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Nothing wrong with haggling..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Good for you I say !!!

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Citizen86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Audiophewl,

 No updates? It's Wednesday now, I hope you have received an email by now...._

 

The million dollar question .....I hope everything is looked after by LC to AP's satisfaction....

 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

I've heard absolutely nothing from him. Has anyone else?

 I'd recommend purchasing elsewhere, personally.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oya?* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_"He also mentioned he's been swamped with orders. I wonder how many of his Zero (and related accessories) sales are to Head-Fi members."
_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've heard absolutely nothing from him. Has anyone else?

 I'd recommend purchasing elsewhere, personally.

 ~Phewl._

 

On the 28th, Oya posted the quote above:

 I would imagine he is very busy. But, just like before, he'll work it until everyone gets taken care of. I feel very confident of this. Hang in there!


----------



## AudioPhewl

So are we now thinking that he spoke with Oya on the 28th? Yet you pheel(spot the pun 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 confident that he'll take care of my problems, despite me hearing nothing since 3am on 25th?

 I do wonder how confident you'd be if it were your money, or your unit which was faulty. His behaviour toward me is, quite frankly, bloody lousy at the moment.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## azncookiecutter

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi azncookiecutter,

 The "HeadFi Deal" Lawrence is selling (New Zero + 2 OPA627AU's on adapter + 2 LT1364's) can be had for $139+$41 ship, if you email him at lawrencechanbig@msn.com and tell him you are a member of HeadFi, and ask him for the Zero with the "HeadFi deal". He'll send you a PayPal payment notice, and you pay with this. You can also ask him how long before he gets the HDAM modules back in stock.

 Hopefully, he'll be able to sell you exactly what you need. I would recommend the "HeadFi deal" because of the better Opamps, if he isn't going to have the HDAMs in stock for a while, and you don't want to wait. 

 The Zero with the HDAM, works very well with separate tube amps. I have tested mine with each of my tube amps with great results. I have also tested it with my MKV SS headphone amp, and the results are fantastic. No matter how you slice it, the HDAM represents a clear SQ improvement over Opamps.

 The cost of the HDAM will keep some from purchasing it and that is OK too. The "HeadFi Deal" Zero has excellent SQ and keeps the Zero at a ridiculously low price point, which has been one of it's strengths since the beginning. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Alright, thanks Penchum. Shouldn't be a problem ordering the Zero without the HDAM, and I assume you can order them separately in the future and plug them in. And regarding Lawrence, if I can't get a hold of him, anyone have other recommended sellers I can get this from?


----------



## AudioPhewl

azncookiecutter, I think Lawrence is the only one offering upgraded opamps. I had good experiences with the eBay seller "snow48_6" with my first unit, but she only sells the standard devices.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Meliboeus

i have just sent an email to Lawrence asking for a price quote...is he a seller i can trust ? only AudioPhewl is having problems as i can see...i hope it is an isolated event..


----------



## Enthusia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Meliboeus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i have just sent an email to Lawrence asking for a price quote...is he a seller i can trust ? only AudioPhewl is having problems as i can see...i hope it is an isolated event.._

 

It's like 500 to 1 when it comes to Lawrence in trustworthiness and you should ask for the head-fi deal! You get the upgraded opamps for frizzle.


----------



## Meliboeus

yes i've told him i'm an Head-fi member...i'll wait for his reply 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 that "headfi deal " is really dirt cheap...even stock zeros sell at about 140-160$ shipped on ebay...with upgraded opamps, it is a bargain.


----------



## alxwang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *azncookiecutter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Alright, thanks Penchum. Shouldn't be a problem ordering the Zero without the HDAM, and I assume you can order them separately in the future and plug them in. And regarding Lawrence, if I can't get a hold of him, anyone have other recommended sellers I can get this from?_

 

I just put the order via ebay today so maybe I can let you know how it goes after I got them. It is from a 5000+ feedback seller so I hope it will come alright 

 but who knows - The only thing make me feel better now is at least I can get paypal coverage if anything goes wrong - even it is 6 month waiting still better than nothing I think.

 Just my 2 cents.


----------



## matrix200

A small update from me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Wang confirmed that he made a mistake by sending me a not upgraded version.
 He has sent me the OPA627.
 I also ordered the usb-toslink box from him.
 Now could you guys point me to some guide on replacing the opamp on the Zero?
 I am not that comfortable with the idea of replacing the chip 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I understand it is a matter of pulling the old opamp and putting the new one right?


----------



## Matias

That's right, simple as that.
 I ordered a unit from Wang too. Let's hear.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *matrix200* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I understand it is a matter of pulling the old opamp and putting the new one right?_

 

It's as simple as pulling gently with a pair of pliers, and gently pushing a new one home. All you have to do is get the notch/circle the right way up, and take care not to bend any pins. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## matrix200

Thanks for the replys guys.
 One question , how do I determine the right direction?
 Take a look on the curent layout
http://i38.tinypic.com/11rstba.jpg
 So the new one should be oriented in the same direction right?


----------



## AudioPhewl

Correct, with the indentation marks toward the two white relays, or the back of the DAC.

 It's a simple swap, you'll find it easy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## matrix200

So I am lucky for getting the simple version because now I will have both 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I wonder what kind of difference in the sound , it is going to make


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So are we now thinking that he spoke with Oya on the 28th? Yet you pheel(spot the pun 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 confident that he'll take care of my problems, despite me hearing nothing since 3am on 25th?

 I do wonder how confident you'd be if it were your money, or your unit which was faulty. His behaviour toward me is, quite frankly, bloody lousy at the moment.

 ~Phewl._

 

AP,

 I was just showing you the last post I could find, that had some kind of news about what was going on over there.

 Back when I ordered my second Zero, he was backlogged almost a month and a half, due to the Holidays and the power supply upgrade bit, so myself and many others waited for quite a while, before hearing status from him. So, I do understand how you feel.

 I have no idea what is happening over there, except for what OYA posted, so I have to go with that, until we hear something newer.

 If communication between the two of you, has become one sided, then I would suggest a different course of action. Confrontation is not something buyers or sellers like to see, so if you think he's not answering your emails, because he perceives your emails as being confrontational, then it is probably time to sit down and write a level headed request for his assistance in clearing up any misunderstandings between him and you, and to request his assistance with getting your order straight. You never know, he might of felt dissed or something like that. Its not just a possible language translation problem, but a possible perception problem as well.

 I do know he is a hard working man just like everyone else; he has a family; he puts his pants on the same way, etc... The only difference, is that he is trying to cater to buyers worldwide, which has it's extra challenges too. He needs respect just like you and me, and he wants to help out members of HeadFi.org, not just to make money, but to provide quality audio at a super nice price. He came up with this "HeadFi Deal" all on his own, to help out his fellow audiophiles here at HeadFi. He is one of us at heart!

 I'm sorry if my suggestion might not sit well with you. I give it with only the best of intentions. It is the only way I know of that could possibly resolve any issues, if that in fact, is what's going on. Communication is just too important to let slide, when monies and audio goods hang in the balance.

 Have a good/cold one!


----------



## AudioPhewl

Sorry Penchum if I came across like a bit of an a'hole. I'm in the middle of a blazing row with my manic-depressive sister via SMS.

 I'm not in the greatest of moods right now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just wish "Lawrence" would get in touch about it, it's doing my head in now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## ianp

My 0:02 on your questions.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *loonywan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_1. The RCA is the only output in the pre-amp role. You have to replace + upgrade it. However, what are good sockets ?_

 

Lukasz recommends using new RCA sockets. Probably because it makes installation a bit easier and you have control over the parts. His site and documents do state that he doesn't recommend using fancy parts, rather "good" parts.

  Quote:


 2. Judging from the 3rd pic on the Lampization mod page, the shaded area where one of the legs of the caps land is the MINUS. It doesn't really matter which way you look at the caps (left to right or right to left), just make sure the caps chosen are ALTERNATE. 
 

This page indicates usage of caps 1 & or 2 &4 

  Quote:


 3. Wire MINUS leg to the RCA Signal Pin. Question is , which is the LEFT and RIGHT channel ? 
 

I'd assume based on position looking towards the back of the unit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe, try tracing the tracks on the PCB or just install it one way and be prepared to switch round later.

  Quote:


 4. Question is , wire to which GROUND on the pcb? 
 

Any suitable ground.

  Quote:


 1. The "treble killing brown 220p caps" are to be removed. Or should they be upgraded instead ? 
 

I just removed them. An easy task after popping off the top with no need to remove the PCB if your aim is straight with a small pair of cutters.

  Quote:


 2. "tantalum caps are ... added in parallel to the electrolytes which power up the DAC and the receiver"
 Whoa... this kinda means we'll have to remove board and add to the underside ? 
 

If you wish to do that mod, yes, unless you can mount on top. Removing the PCB is straight forward however.

  Quote:


 3. "four critical caps to be upgraded - power to the DAC and receiver."
 Any good recommendations for what kind of caps be good ? 
 

Lukasz recommends SANYO OS-CON, but really any good capacitor manufacturer of your choice.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ianp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just removed them. An easy task after popping off the top with need to remove the PCB if your aim is straight with a small pair of cutters._

 

Are these capacitors in the signal path, or do they tie it to ground? If the signal passes through them, then removing them would terminate the audio signal(if they weren't bridged).

 Just curious. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## ianp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are these capacitors in the signal path, or do they tie it to ground? If the signal passes through them, then removing them would terminate the audio signal(if they weren't bridged).

 Just curious. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 

To ground and the audio signal continues just fine after the snipping. Here's the image from the lampizater site and it is referenced on the Snip It - modifications for the begginers page also.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Cheers for clarifying, Ianp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## indianbraker

man i cant get over how great this unit sounds for the money i paid lol


----------



## ianp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indianbraker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_man i cant get over how great this unit sounds for the money i paid lol_

 

That's why we have 480+ pages in this thread and it's still growing !


----------



## Enthusia

Which SANYO OS-CON do we buy? I am not sure how many UF's and Volts. Also would the solid os-cons work too or just the regular ones?


----------



## colliedoggy

Just behind the RCA sockets and connected to the 22pF ceramic capacitors there are an additional two 100kOhm resistors connected from each output to ground. Why are they necessary. Couldn't they be removed too?
 Thanks


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry Penchum if I came across like a bit of an a'hole. I'm in the middle of a blazing row with my manic-depressive sister via SMS.

 I'm not in the greatest of moods right now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Just wish "Lawrence" would get in touch about it, it's doing my head in now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 

No problem AP,

 Those of us with "life" issues, know exactly how it can get. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hang in there bro. Ow, and do those cold ones!


----------



## ianp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Enthusia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which SANYO OS-CON do we buy? I am not sure how many UF's and Volts. Also would the solid os-cons work too or just the regular ones?_

 

This may help - http://us.sanyo.com/industrial/elect...ystemtable.pdf

 could be 330uF / 6.3v ??


----------



## Enthusia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ianp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This may help - http://us.sanyo.com/industrial/elect...ystemtable.pdf

 could be 330uF / 6.3v ??_

 

I was thinking the same thing, I found the 360uf / 6.3v on ebay, I doubt there would be any big differences between those two capacitors.


----------



## ianp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Enthusia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was thinking the same thing, I found the 360uf / 6.3v on ebay, I doubt there would be any big differences between those two capacitors._

 

In case you haven't read the authors .doc on the lampizator, allow me to quote him on the selection of parts:

  Quote:


 The parts selection is not critical. I do not believe in premium parts. Decent electronic parts which hold the specs should do. I also urge everyone to substitute parts for near values.
 If you see a 47 uF capacitor in the schematics, do not spend days shopping for it if you happen to have a larger one in your drawer. A bigger capacitor is 9 out of 10 times a better capacitor. Bigger voltage ratings are always better. And so on. use rational reason to choose similar parts. Resistors can be connected in series or paralell to get right value. A +/- 25% value will always do, no matter what circuit. 
 

NB - Best to double-check the current uF and V to make sure replacement parts are OK.


----------



## Carter54

Is there a better way to purchase one of these than through ebay? I read a few few posts in this thread about a Head-Fi Deal but I couldnt find any details in the 480+ pages.

 I am looking for my dirst DAC/AMP and I am sold on the Zero.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are these capacitors in the signal path, or do they tie it to ground? If the signal passes through them, then removing them would terminate the audio signal(if they weren't bridged).

 Just curious. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 


 Hi AP and ianp,

 Aren't those 220pf caps there for scrubbing any dc offset in the signal ? Have you measured what that offset might be ? If I'm wrong than disregard..

 I've replaced mine with 220pf 200V 5% dipped silver micas but now that I see this I'm also wanting to take the darn things out of the circuit altogether.....just want make sure no offset makes it to the amp or preamp...

 Thanks...

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

How difficult would it be to use a 6H30PI instead of the 6N6P in the Lampizator mod...? I asked this earlier on but no one had an answer...yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Enthusia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Carter54* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there a better way to purchase one of these than through ebay? I read a few few posts in this thread about a Head-Fi Deal but I couldnt find any details in the 480+ pages.

 I am looking for my dirst DAC/AMP and I am sold on the Zero._

 

If you send Lawrence an email who is known as Biglawhk on ebay and say you are from head-fi, he will send you a paypal invoice of 180 dollars.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Carter54* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there a better way to purchase one of these than through ebay? I read a few few posts in this thread about a Head-Fi Deal but I couldnt find any details in the 480+ pages.

 I am looking for my dirst DAC/AMP and I am sold on the Zero._

 

Buy direct using paypal...email the prospective vendor of choice....that's it other than the usual BIN eBay method...

 Peete.


----------



## tpc41

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Carter54* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there a better way to purchase one of these than through ebay? I read a few few posts in this thread about a Head-Fi Deal but I couldnt find any details in the 480+ pages.

 I am looking for my dirst DAC/AMP and I am sold on the Zero._

 

sometimes people sell them in the for sale forum, keep your eyes open and you might get a good deal. Ebay is the only place i know of where to buy them. I am also on the verge of buying one of these.


----------



## ianp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi AP and ianp,

 Aren't those 220pf caps there for scrubbing any dc offset in the signal ? Have you measured what that offset might be ? If I'm wrong than disregard..

 I've replaced mine with 220pf 200V 5% dipped silver micas but now that I see this I'm also wanting to take the darn things out of the circuit altogether.....just want make sure no offset makes it to the amp or preamp...

 Thanks...

 Peete._

 

I may be wrong but I think they have to be in series to remove DC offset. I kind of figured that the lampizator has thought of that as he is an electrical engineer and has been tweaking things for quite a while. If in doubt leave well alone.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Thanks ianp....I'm not doubting anyones credentials...Just wondered what the little caps are actually doing. I'll snip mine out and have a listen....what is there purpose in the stock circuit ian....any info will be appreciated.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Regards,

 Peete.


----------



## ianp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks ianp....I'm not doubting anyones credentials...Just wondered what the little caps are actually doing. I'll snip mine out and have a listen....what is there purpose in the stock circuit ian....any info will be appreciated.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Regards,

 Peete._

 

I'm at my limit of electrical knowledge here, so am really just leveraging the site owners pages, which is the only reason I mentioned they were and Elec Eng. This page may give you an answer to your question.


----------



## Oya?

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So are we now thinking that he spoke with Oya on the 28th? Yet you pheel(spot the pun 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 confident that he'll take care of my problems, despite me hearing nothing since 3am on 25th?

 I do wonder how confident you'd be if it were your money, or your unit which was faulty. His behaviour toward me is, quite frankly, bloody lousy at the moment.

 ~Phewl._

 

Phewl, I can only speak from what I've experienced; I bought an OPA627 set from Lawrence, which arrived faulty. I sent it back to him and he sent me another pair, which appears to have been lost in transit. He's sending me a third replacement set now. Communication have always been consistent and pleasant and still is. Other dealings I've had with him have been smooth (I bought my Zero and HDAM from him). I can't comment on your situation and I know this is probably of no consolation to you; but I do hope that Lawrence makes good and takes care of your issue.

*EDIT:* Just adding: my last exchange with Lawrence was on the 29th.


----------



## Meliboeus

today i payed my 180$ invoice...i'll join the zero owner's club soon


----------



## boodi

so which are the best opas other then the 627s for the zero ?
 I don't like burr brown sound as even if iper refined ( good ) is not that snappy and fun ( bad ), it also makes me miss bits of p.r.a.t.


----------



## katanka

If i want to try out the LME49710 in the DAC, will i need to put them on a single to dual adapter ???


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oya?* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Phewl, I can only speak from what I've experienced; I bought an OPA627 set from Lawrence, which arrived faulty. I sent it back to him and he sent me another pair, which appears to have been lost in transit. He's sending me a third replacement set now. Communication have always been consistent and pleasant and still is. Other dealings I've had with him have been smooth (I bought my Zero and HDAM from him). I can't comment on your situation and I know this is probably of no consolation to you; but I do hope that Lawrence makes good and takes care of your issue.

*EDIT:* Just adding: my last exchange with Lawrence was on the 29th._

 

Thanks for your input, and for updating tha last time someone had contact with him 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. It's disheartening to know that he is choosing to ignore me rather than work to resolve the issues with the faulty unit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 He hasn't even given me a return address to mail the faulty unit back to 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Carter54

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tpc41* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sometimes people sell them in the for sale forum, keep your eyes open and you might get a good deal. Ebay is the only place i know of where to buy them. I am also on the verge of buying one of these._

 

I have been Watchin ghte for sale for a while now and i was the Second PM on the last 2 Zero's
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Mikha

What is better: Creative E-MU 0404 USB or Upgraded ZERO DAC or Audiotrak Dr.Dac2? In terms of sound quality of course. Computer as a source, Denon AH-D2000 headphones(very low impedance).


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boodi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so which are the best opas other then the 627s for the zero ?
 I don't like burr brown sound as even if iper refined ( good ) is not that snappy and fun ( bad ), it also makes me miss bits of p.r.a.t._

 

Take a look at the last pages of the review, many are listed there. The LT1364 sounds nice in the DAC, but you'll need to put a stick-on cooler on it, to keep it cool.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Carter54* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there a better way to purchase one of these than through ebay? I read a few few posts in this thread about a Head-Fi Deal but I couldnt find any details in the 480+ pages.

 I am looking for my dirst DAC/AMP and I am sold on the Zero._

 

Look 3 pages back, here: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...ml#post4541379


----------



## kejar31

Ok, I picked up a Zero and it showed up yesterday. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am planing on using this as my desktop dac and amp for the time being (I will get a better amp at a later time). My current headphones are HD580's and K501's (this can change real fast as we all know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). Anyways this thread is huge and I have been browsing it for more then two hours looking for some insight and finally decided to just ask. I would like to change out the opamps but am unsure about which ones to get and where to buy them. If anyone has a set that works real well with the 580's and knows where to buy them that would be awesome. Also is there a nice walk through (with pics) on what chips to change out and how to install the new ones.


----------



## taso89

So I'm having an interesting problem.. My zero doesn't like 96khz or 192khz at all! 44khz and 48khz play perfectly but attempting the upper two just results in snap, crackle and pop. I'm using a toslink optical connection to my Zero, and of course PCM and nothing extra. Any ideas? Maybe replacing DAC opamp could fix this?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ianp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm at my limit of electrical knowledge here, so am really just leveraging the site owners pages, which is the only reason I mentioned they were and Elec Eng. This page may give you an answer to your question._

 

Excellent page ianp !!!....thanks for the link....like you I'm learning as I go....always learning ....lately I've been really pushing the info curve into my noggin...such that the ole brain sometimes does one of these 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 then the light bulb either comes on or blows 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Peete.


----------



## katanka

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *katanka* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If i want to try out the LME49710 in the DAC, will i need to put them on a single to dual adapter ???_

 

anyone ?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *katanka* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyone ?_

 

Google it...if it's a dual channel chip then no adapter, if it's a single channel..then it needs a brown dog.....

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *taso89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I'm having an interesting problem.. My zero doesn't like 96khz or 192khz at all! 44khz and 48khz play perfectly but attempting the upper two just results in snap, crackle and pop. I'm using a toslink optical connection to my Zero, and of course PCM and nothing extra. Any ideas? Maybe replacing DAC opamp could fix this?_

 

Have a look at your sound card settings...something might be setting an upper limit at 48khz sample rate...my Auzen card can output 24/96 pcm and the zero takes it without issue. That's the limit though for the Auzen card so I can't test 24/192...others have with other sc's and it works I seem to recall...so check out your computer sound card specs and update your drivers for it....

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kejar31* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, I picked up a Zero and it showed up yesterday. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am planing on using this as my desktop dac and amp for the time being (I will get a better amp at a later time). My current headphones are HD580's and K501's (this can change real fast as we all know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). Anyways this thread is huge and I have been browsing it for more then two hours looking for some insight and finally decided to just ask. I would like to change out the opamps but am unsure about which ones to get and where to buy them. If anyone has a set that works real well with the 580's and knows where to buy them that would be awesome. Also is there a nice walk through (with pics) on what chips to change out and how to install the new ones._

 

Opamp rolling results for quite a few types are on page 1 in Penchum's review....just scroll down and read it...

 Peete.


----------



## boodi

p pete
 the _number_ of total pages of an "x" whatever 3d in this forum is not the same in the case of different screen resolution
 jfyi


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Noted boodi.......
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






 Peete.


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *katanka* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyone ?_

 

The 49710 is a single so you'll need 2 on an adapter....Why not get the 49720 which is the same opamp in a dual format so you'll only need one with no adapter....


----------



## katanka

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trapper32* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The 49710 is a single so you'll need 2 on an adapter....Why not get the 49720 which is the same opamp in a dual format so you'll only need one with no adapter...._

 

Ye , I realize that now. I just got these from someone, so i wanted to try them, but as you and PP have said they are single, i was just making sure. So i ordered some brown dog adapters. Just wanna try em out. What i really want is the HDAM. Can't wait for lawrence to get some soon


----------



## Enthusia

Nevermind, don't plug in the headphones before you turn on the zero dac!


----------



## No Smoking

What is the UI on the zero amp? Is it a very basic one where you can only change the volume and input or does it have more advanced options by passing a combination of the buttons? Also is the zero manual available online?


----------



## AudioPhewl

It's only an amplifier for the DAC itself. You cannot select an outside source, unless it is a digital one converted to audio by the DAC.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Enthusia

Anybody else getting the problem while using the headphone amp of the Zero with the sound coming from the right side louder than the left but then as you turn the volume up more the sound balances out?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Enthusia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anybody else getting the problem while using the headphone amp of the Zero with the sound coming from the right side louder than the left but then as you turn the volume up more the sound balances out?_

 

Do you have the stock volume pot E ? That's a drawback to a cheap one...the Alps upgrade pot is better balanced...it doesn't matter to me since I don't use H/Amp all that often.....one note...the imbalance should only be noticeable at the lowest volume settings...if it 's happening at regular listening volumes the pot needs to be changed....

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Phew just got through snipping out the 220pf caps...decided to install some hi quality rhodium plated RCA jacks while I was at it.....using the stock holes....wow was that a major pain in the arse........it's back together for good, the only way to pull the pcb now is to unsolder the + leads on L/R jacks.... or remove the whole back end panel..........got the extension from Lawrence for the HDAM....now I can put the cover back on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 She works !!!! Treble is a better, snare has sharper snap......cymbals have regained some body and sheen.....nice..thanks ianp for that link 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yay..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.....small things bring me joy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

I think it's worth pointing out that the removal of the capacitors next to the RCA sockets is unlikely to yield any difference to those using the built-in headphone amplifier. The capacitors are too far down the signal path, it's already been to the headphone/pre amplifier and is ready to exit the machine.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Enthusia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you have the stock volume pot E ? That's a drawback to a cheap one...the Alps upgrade pot is better balanced...it doesn't matter to me since I don't use H/Amp all that often.....one note...the imbalance should only be noticeable at the lowest volume settings...if it 's happening at regular listening volumes the pot needs to be changed....

 Peete._

 

Yes this is happening only at very low volumes. Not sure what kind of pot I have, it has a white sticker with blue lettering over it saying "SONG" and it is labeled B100K. Any chance you know where I can buy the upgraded pot?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Enthusia......Lawrence...if he has any in stock....

 AP.....absolutely right....I just use mine in DAC line level out mode so the elimination of these has helped a tiny tiny bit..my ears are used to picking things out right away (been at it for ages and ages like Pench) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The quality rca jacks may be responsible for the lions share of the slight improvement mentioned previously. Used some nice silver plated copper hook up wire for the RCA's to pcb...very very short lengths..which is why it was such a major PITA to install the jacks using the stock holes....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyone contemplating swapping out the jacks for better quality ones, do yourself a huge favor and drill new holes for them...not worth the trouble doing it the way I did...plus it's a very tight squeeze between the bottom R jack and the pcb....I added some Teflon tubing to the hook up wire to give it extra protection when I soldered in the + connections....worked out nicely but took way longer than it should have.


 Peete.


----------



## ianp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Excellent page ianp !!!....thanks for the link....like you I'm learning as I go....always learning ....lately I've been really pushing the info curve into my noggin...such that the ole brain sometimes does one of these 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 then the light bulb either comes on or blows 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Peete._

 

Same here. About 20+ years ago I could read and understand electronic circuits. These days I have to start from scratch and do everything from first principles.


----------



## ianp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Carter54* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have been Watchin ghte for sale for a while now and i was the Second PM on the last 2 Zero's
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




._

 

Subscribe to the 'for sale' forums RSS feeds and monitor like a hawk !


----------



## richierich

Got my LT1364s in today, and all I gotta say after only 45 minutes of listening:

 Zero + LT1364s + 627 > D2000s = HOLY WOW!!!!!!!!!!1111

 The LT1364s really clean up the D2000s highs. Before with the stock 5532s the D2000s could be a little sibilant, but now wow I am not bothered at all even when turning up the volume higher. Thank you guys for the great recommendation! And thanks again Penchum for starting this whole Zero DAC craze.


----------



## Mikha

Question to those who own upgraded ZERO and Denon D2000: What DAC/AMP(maybe separate DAC or AMP) will be the next(not a huge) step in getting better sound quality with Denon D2000?

 Asking, cuz dont want to wait some parts to be in stock and just buy. Maybe Audiotrak Dr.Dac2? Or 0404usb?


----------



## richierich

N/M


----------



## Enthusia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mikha* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Question to those who own upgraded ZERO and Denon D2000: What DAC/AMP(maybe separate DAC or AMP) will be the next(not a huge) step in getting better sound quality with Denon D2000?

 Asking, cuz dont want to wait some parts to be in stock and just buy. Maybe Audiotrak Dr.Dac2? Or 0404usb?_

 

I am not sure if I understand your question, but the zero has a built in dac and amp that will sufficiently drive the d2000's to extreme volumes. If you really wanted an external amp then I would suggest the Little Dot's that Penchum has reviewed here on head-fi.

 You don't want to wait for the Zero Dac, but your would rather just go and buy a Dr.Dac2 or 0404 usb? Well I guess patience is a virtue.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *richierich* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got my LT1364s in today, and all I gotta say after only 45 minutes of listening:

 Zero + LT1364s + 627 > D2000s = HOLY WOW!!!!!!!!!!1111

 The LT1364s really clean up the D2000s highs. Before with the stock 5532s the D2000s could be a little sibilant, but now wow I am not bothered at all even when turning up the volume higher. Thank you guys for the great recommendation! And thanks again Penchum for starting this whole Zero DAC craze._

 

Thanks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 When I think about how much better it is going to sound, once everything has matured, I know you are in for a real treat! It only gets better from here.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Enthusia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am not sure if I understand your question, but the zero has a built in dac and amp that will sufficiently drive the d2000's to extreme volumes. If you really wanted an external amp then I would suggest the Little Dot's that Penchum has reviewed here on head-fi.

 You don't want to wait for the Zero Dac, but your would rather just go and buy a Dr.Dac2 or 0404 usb? Well I guess patience is a virtue._

 

Agreed. It can take time to get quality audio at such ridicules prices, but I consider the wait to be worth the effort in the long run. Popularity almost always creates delays in stock.


----------



## Oya?

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for your input, and for updating tha last time someone had contact with him 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. It's disheartening to know that he is choosing to ignore me rather than work to resolve the issues with the faulty unit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 He hasn't even given me a return address to mail the faulty unit back to 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl._

 

As much as I would like to call this all a misunderstanding, it really does seem like he's ignoring you! I've just shot him another email (needed tracking info) and got a reply within the day. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Truly boggling.


----------



## Meliboeus

I've got an email from him today to confirm my shipment, really strange he isn't contacting you...so far he seems an excellent seller


----------



## Enthusia

Can anybody decipher this for me? I just sent Lawrence an email about getting a new volume pot.

  Quote:


 Dear Sir ,

 Can you buy one in your side ? It only cost few HK dollars. Can give it back to you. Shipping is more expensive !

 Thank you very much !

 Best regards,

 Lawrence


----------



## Meliboeus

what i have understood is that..he wants you to buy a new pot at your favourite local dealer...he will then provide you a cash refund for your purchase instead of sending the replacement pot...but...i may have misundestrood, as you can see i'm not even a native english speaker


----------



## Enthusia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Meliboeus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_what i have understood is that..he wants you to buy a new pot at your favourite local dealer...he will then provide you a cash refund for your purchase instead of sending the replacement pot...but...i may have misundestrood, as you can see i'm not even a native english speaker 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That is what I thought too! But who knows I sent him another email regarding the matter.


----------



## Enthusia

Wow he is amazing at responding to emails.

  Quote:


 Dear Sir ,



 OK! I'll send you one!



 Thank you very much !



 Best regards,

 Lawrence


----------



## Meliboeus

well done...because it's a pretty strange request...

 super fast answer


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oya?* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As much as I would like to call this all a misunderstanding, it really does seem like he's ignoring you! I've just shot him another email (needed tracking info) and got a reply within the day. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Truly boggling._

 

Aye, I've had no response from him. Not for my emails, nor the Paypal dispute.

 Looks like things go great, so long as there isn't a problem. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## ianp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Aye, I've had no response from him. Not for my emails, nor the Paypal dispute.

 Looks like things go great, so long as there isn't a problem. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 

Vendor reputations are built on overall customer satisfaction, which does include doing the right thing in the case of issues. I hope Lawrence steps up to the plate on this and resolves the problem.


----------



## Garret Jax

Just received my Zero DAC from Lawrence. Ordered it July 20, received it August 1; not bad!

 I am using the Zero with a new set of HD-650's, so I need to give them 100 hours or so to burn in. I have a question: Is there a switch to alter the Zero for different impedence levels on headphones? I know the HD-650 is a 300 Ohm beast, and the Zero is so far capable of driving it louder than I care to listen, but for some reason I thought there might be a switch or something to set. Sup?


----------



## AudioPhewl

My headphones are 600ohm, and the Zero is capable of driving them plenty loud enough. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ~Phewl.


----------



## alex1pdx

Well, I just have to say that I am really enjoying my Zero with the HD650s I got yesterday. I was really skeptical about their synergy, but I can't take those phones off my ears! Thanks everyone for all the info on this thread.


----------



## Enthusia

Funny thing is I had the Little Dot MKIII and the headphone amp that comes with the Zero dac can power my hd650's twice the level my little dot mkIII ever could.


----------



## Carter54

I will be purchasing the Zero For a first amp is the 30$ extra dollars worth it to get the upgraded version from Lawrence or just get the one for 111+40 on ebay?

 I am using this as a headphone AMP/DAC for my Xbox mostly for gaming and as an AMP for X-Fi for MP3 and Gaming from my PC.

 I am not an audiophile just enjoy good music loud and I am pretty hardcore about gaming and positional audio.

 Carter


----------



## Enthusia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Carter54* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will be purchasing the Zero For a first amp is the 30$ extra dollars worth it to get the upgraded version from Lawrence or just get the one for 111+40 on ebay?

 I am using this as a headphone AMP/DAC for my Xbox mostly for gaming and as an AMP for X-Fi for MP3 and Gaming from my PC.

 I am not an audiophile just enjoy good music loud and I am pretty hardcore about gaming and positional audio.

 Carter_

 

It does not cost money to get the upgrades from Lawrence, just email him and say you want the head-fi deal and he will send you a paypal invoice of 180 dollars.


----------



## ccschua

So i guess i will be the first to break the good news. 

 The HDAM challenger has arrived at a fraction of the costs.


----------



## ianp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So i guess i will be the first to break the good news. 

 The HDAM challenger has arrived at a fraction of the costs._

 

Yep, good news for sure, but do you have any further details ?

 Can't wait for a cook-off between them


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Garret Jax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just received my Zero DAC from Lawrence. Ordered it July 20, received it August 1; not bad!

 I am using the Zero with a new set of HD-650's, so I need to give them 100 hours or so to burn in. I have a question: Is there a switch to alter the Zero for different impedence levels on headphones? I know the HD-650 is a 300 Ohm beast, and the Zero is so far capable of driving it louder than I care to listen, but for some reason I thought there might be a switch or something to set. Sup?_

 

Nope. No switch. Just plug in and enjoy.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Enthusia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Funny thing is I had the Little Dot MKIII and the headphone amp that comes with the Zero dac can power my hd650's twice the level my little dot mkIII ever could._

 

What did you have the MKIII's gain set at? I've got mine on 10, and I can't turn it past 10:00 without blowing out my ears! That's with feeding it from the Zero at line level.


----------



## richierich

Hey Penchum in my budget setup the Zero > Little Dot II+ > D2000s sound so good! I can only imagine what the other higher Little Dot Amps can do.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *richierich* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Penchum in my budget setup the Zero > Little Dot II+ > D2000s sound so good! I can only imagine what the other higher Little Dot Amps can do._

 

Ow, I hear ya! The interesting thing is, you are getting serious amounts of quality sound, for so little money! It's like a special holiday season or something! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Enjoy the rig and the music!!


----------



## boodi

is the sound of this dac tending to analogue ? can someone point me to a post with a "sound" review ?


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ianp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep, good news for sure, but do you have any further details ?

 Can't wait for a cook-off between them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well it goes like this.. He come out with Earth and Sun. By the name, Earth is more neutral and Sun is more dynamic, full of life.

 The costs is Less than USD 30 per piece with dual output. Just paid for Earth and Sun, will wait for item to aarive. Gosh, it just make the OPA 2604 bite the dust.


----------



## richierich

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well it goes like this.. He come out with Earth and Sun. By the name, Earth is more neutral and Sun is more dynamic, full of life.

 The costs is Less than USD 30 per piece with dual output. Just paid for Earth and Sun, will wait for item to aarive. Gosh, it just make the OPA 2604 bite the dust._

 

huh???


----------



## Carter54

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Enthusia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It does not cost money to get the upgrades from Lawrence, just email him and say you want the head-fi deal and he will send you a paypal invoice of 180 dollars._

 

I dont think I phrased my question right. What is the difference from the 180$ version that you get from lawrence and the 151$ version on Ebay right now? And is the difference worth the 29$. Sorry if this is a dumb question just new to the AMP world is all.

 Carter


----------



## ianp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well it goes like this.. He come out with Earth and Sun. By the name, Earth is more neutral and Sun is more dynamic, full of life.

 The costs is Less than USD 30 per piece with dual output. Just paid for Earth and Sun, will wait for item to aarive. Gosh, it just make the OPA 2604 bite the dust._

 

All very ying and yangish. You'll be telling me next it is currently on a journey to the west
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 You can't beat that price point with a stick. When it arrives please post images and first impressions.


----------



## boodi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boodi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_is the sound of this dac tending to analogue ? can someone point me to a post with a "sound" review ?_

 

so?


----------



## boodi

ZERO 24/192 DAC DA CONVERTOR, HEAD AMP(Upgrade Version) - eBay (item 110271256457 end time Aug-14-08 21:00:41 PDT)

 isn't the upgraded zero less then 180 total ?


----------



## Enthusia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What did you have the MKIII's gain set at? I've got mine on 10, and I can't turn it past 10:00 without blowing out my ears! That's with feeding it from the Zero at line level. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Same with my little dot mkIII, but with the zero I can't even go past 9 and it sounds like a beast!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boodi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so?_

 

Did you read page 1 in it's entirety ? Check out my mini review for even more info...either review clearly states YMMV.....read those three posts and you'll have a good handle on the Zero plus a few options....


 Peete


----------



## katanka

ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1

 Check it out


----------



## AudioPhewl

They're cheap. Any good? At $67-90 for three, it may even be worth dropping them in the headpone amplifier section! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl
 (who, surprisingly, still hasn't heard from Lawrence.)


----------



## Enthusia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *katanka* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1

 Check it out_

 

What kind of opamp is that? Looks like the hdam...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *katanka* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1

 Check it out_

 

What's the difference between the Earth and Sun models besides price ? Damn vague sites.....it's like calling a fart... sunshine......totally useless...


 Peete.


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boodi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ZERO 24/192 DAC DA CONVERTOR, HEAD AMP(Upgrade Version) - eBay (item 110271256457 end time Aug-14-08 21:00:41 PDT)

 isn't the upgraded zero less then 180 total ?_

 

Thats a different seller, not Lawrence. If you go back a few pages theres been a few people who have bought from this guy (I also intend on buying a Zero from him too)


----------



## Enthusia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thats a different seller, not Lawrence. If you go back a few pages theres been a few people who have bought from this guy (I also intend on buying a Zero from him too)_

 

I see he includes the opa627's but does he also include the dual lt1364's?


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What's the difference between the Earth and Sun models besides price ? Damn vague sites.....it's like calling a fart... sunshine......totally useless...


 Peete._

 

Read here, as stated earlier by ccshua, 
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well it goes like this.. He come out with Earth and Sun. By the name, Earth is more neutral and Sun is more dynamic, full of life._

 


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Enthusia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see he includes the opa627's but does he also include the dual lt1364's?_

 

Well according to his Q/A: 

 Q: Hi, does this include usb-spdif converter? Is the OPA627 installed in DAC and is there LT1364 installed in the amp? Is digital cable included in the package? Thanks!

 A: Dear Kenneth, The unit include USB-SPDIF converter,but it is not include the digital cable. For the upgrade version,the main difference is the DAC chip.The old version use OPA2604,the upgrade version uses OPA627.other parts are similar. Best regards wang shuzeng

 It appears not. However, you do get the ALPS pot:
 Q: Hi, does this come with the usb-spdif converter? How much for shipping to singapore/australia and how long is it expected to take? Also, is it possible to get the upgrade ALPS pot? Cheers, Kenneth

 A: Dear Kenneth, Thank you for your message and interest in this item. Yes,the unit comes with the USB-SPDIF converter.The shipping cost to Singapore/Australia are USD36.8/USD43 separately.It takes 5-7 working days by transportation.And the upgrade one is with ALPS pot. Pls kindly noted and for any other query,pls contact me freely. Best regards wang shuzeng

 Hm I might ask him if I can get the LT's installed actually heh.

 Oh and ccshua, are you putting those in place of the OPA627s (I'm a bit lost)?


----------



## Nedman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Enthusia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see he includes the opa627's but does he also include the dual lt1364's?_

 

That's right, no 1364's. And the 627's are on an under and over adapter, not the side by side unit Lawrence includes [I don't think there's any difference].

 It didn't make any difference to me, as I wasn't intending on using the headphone amp side. And I'm very happy with mine. 

 But if you were intending on using the headphone amp side, I get the Lawrence unit with the upgraded volume pot as well [the stock one not that great. At least on mine it not].


----------



## No Smoking

I've finally decided to bite the bullet and buy the zero. Does anyone know the cheapest place I can find the zero for so far the cheapest I've found is 154USD Shipped.


----------



## Enthusia

I wouldn't go for the cheapest, I would go for the upgraded zero dac or Lawrence's upgraded zero dac with the head-fi deal. Either one seems great and the price is worth it.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Read here, as stated earlier by ccshua, 




 Oh and ccshua, are you putting those in place of the OPA627s (I'm a bit lost)?_

 

They have two type. Single output and double output. In zero, double output is used for the DAC section as well as headphone section (2 sets for headphone, 1 set for DAC). I bought 1 set of OPA double output to replace the stock OPA 2604.


----------



## No Smoking

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Enthusia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wouldn't go for the cheapest, I would go for the upgraded zero dac or Lawrence's upgraded zero dac with the head-fi deal. Either one seems great and the price is worth it._

 

What is the difference between the upgraded verision, i know its got a better DAC? but is there anything else?


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They have two type. Single output and double output. In zero, double output is used for the DAC section as well as headphone section (2 sets for headphone, 1 set for DAC). I bought 1 set of OPA double output to replace the stock OPA 2604._

 

Ah okay well make sure you let us know how it sounds 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *No Smoking* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What is the difference between the upgraded verision, i know its got a better DAC? but is there anything else?_

 

Replaced opamps and an upgraded volume pot


----------



## No Smoking

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah okay well make sure you let us know how it sounds 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Replaced opamps and an upgraded volume pot_

 

Is there a significant increase in performance? and what does the volume pot do?


----------



## katanka

if you take the upgraded version you will get the op amp replaced in the DAC section of the zero from an opa2604 to an opa627au. There is a difference in sound quality in which i could tell and that is that the sound stage is bigger and the instruments are separated and heard more easily. I'm no audiophile, but i could hear the difference between the two opa amps as i had the stock and replaced it with the opa627. If you wish to get the lt1364 op amp for the headphone section you can order 2 free samples from linear.com here is the location Linear Technology - LT1364 - Dual and Quad 70MHz, 1000V/µs Op Amps LT1364 LT1364CN8#PBF LT1364CS8#PBF LT1364CS8 LT1364CS8#TR LT1364CS8#TRPBF LT1364CN8
 you will need to take LT1364CN8#PBF


----------



## andru

Hi guys, thinking about buying this dac/amp to use with my hd650's, just have a few questions.

 1) This will work from itunes > chaintech av-710 optical > zero correct?

 2) Does Lawrence have the upgraded pot in stock? I think I read that it's out of stock right now?

 3) Is the power cable just a standard computer power cable? I'm from Australia so the included power cable won't work.

 Cheers


----------



## katanka

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *andru* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys, thinking about buying this dac/amp to use with my hd650's, just have a few questions.

 1) This will work from itunes > chaintech av-710 optical > zero correct?

 2) Does Lawrence have the upgraded pot in stock? I think I read that it's out of stock right now?

 3) Is the power cable just a standard computer power cable? I'm from Australia so the included power cable won't work.

 Cheers_

 

1. Yes it will. you will have to set your chaintech to playback via its optical out. 

 2. Don't know, drop him a mail lawrencechanbig@msn.com to ask

 3. Yes its the same as a computer power cable.


----------



## boodi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Enthusia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wouldn't go for the cheapest, I would go for the upgraded zero dac or Lawrence's upgraded zero dac with the head-fi deal. Either one seems great and the price is worth it._

 

the cheapest upgraded seems to be the one I linked in my prev. post ; about discrete opas I'm waiting for someone to report about them


----------



## andru

Just bought the headfi deal zero from Lawrence, didn't have any ALPS pots in stock though, oh well.

 Oh and for anyone else from Australia he said it will work with Australian voltage and comes with an Australian AC power cord.


----------



## Citizen86

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They're cheap. Any good? At $67-90 for three, it may even be worth dropping them in the headpone amplifier section! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl
 (who, surprisingly, still hasn't heard from Lawrence.)_

 

I hope you sent him another email since then. Really sucks he still hasn't replied though, sorry man


----------



## matrix200

boodi , I am one of those guys who got Zero from the seller you linked in your post.
 I want to support what others said here , I also find the pot somewhat unsatisfactory (the sound is not 100% balanced at lower volume levels).
 That is the right ear sounds a little louder then the left one unless I turn the volume up (beyond 9:00 am position).
 In my case the seller forgot to put the right opamp so he shipped it separately and I am still waiting on that.
 I will report back on how it sounds compared to the regular version I have right now when I get the goods 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 As to how it compares to Lawrence items , obviously I have no say here as I don't have the unit that Lawrence sells 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 The more I listen to Zero , the more I am inclined to get one of LittleDot units 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 The main reason for that is those loud pops I keep hearing from time to time from the headphone jack.
 On the other hand I never heard anything of that nature from the rca outputs so maybe if I got the headphone amp and hooked it up with rca's it would solve my problem.
 I will wait and see if the usb-toslink adapter solves my problem.
 If it doesn't then headphone amp is probably the way to go for me.


----------



## Oya?

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *andru* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just bought the headfi deal zero from Lawrence, didn't have any ALPS pots in stock though, oh well.

 Oh and for anyone else from Australia he said it will work with Australian voltage and comes with an Australian AC power cord._

 

There's a voltage input switch at the back actually. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You can flip it for either 110 or 220 VAC. It's nice that he's including an Aussie cord as well though.

 I'm waiting for him to stock the pots again as well; although I don't really have any reason to upgrade my stock one, it's doing pretty well. Volume balances out well before low-normal listening levels (8 o'clock). I Listen at 9, sometimes 9 and a half.


----------



## Currawong

I didn't get a reply on my last HDAM request. I think that he's been swamped by the Zero's popularity. Then the fine details start to fall through the cracks. When it happened with my MKV, I ended up with a unit with a slightly imperfect face plate.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *matrix200* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_boodi , I am one of those guys who got Zero from the seller you linked in your post.
 I want to support what others said here , I also find the pot somewhat unsatisfactory (the sound is not 100% balanced at lower volume levels).
 That is the right ear sounds a little louder then the left one unless I turn the volume up (beyond 9:00 am position).
 In my case the seller forgot to put the right opamp so he shipped it separately and I am still waiting on that.
 I will report back on how it sounds compared to the regular version I have right now when I get the goods 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 As to how it compares to Lawrence items , obviously I have no say here as I don't have the unit that Lawrence sells 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 The more I listen to Zero , the more I am inclined to get one of LittleDot units 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 The main reason for that is those loud pops I keep hearing from time to time from the headphone jack.
 On the other hand I never heard anything of that nature from the rca outputs so maybe if I got the headphone amp and hooked it up with rca's it would solve my problem.
 I will wait and see if the usb-toslink adapter solves my problem.
 If it doesn't then headphone amp is probably the way to go for me._

 

Still got that popping thing then. Hummm. That one, has me scratching my anatomy! If I think of something else to check, I'll post back.

 If you were thinking of a separate headphone amp, and you like the Solid State sound vs tube sound, I would highly recommend the MKV. I've been putting mine through some pretty tough testing lately, as I've been modifying my Zero, and the MKV has really impressed me. Every single nuance and performance improvement the HDAM has over the OPA627AU's, comes through the MKV amplified correctly and uncolored. The MKV is a serious bang for the bucks headphone amp. IMHO of course.


----------



## Enthusia

I don't get why you guys would get the popping sound, I haven't experience that yet, knock on wood, but the only time that would happen is if I turned on or off my zero dac with my headphones plugged in. Which you should never do because it might blow your drivers.


----------



## Penchum

The sellers of the Zero are getting their units from the same single source factory (I bet they are busy!). The options they include (or don't include) come from sources unknown to us. Even so, it is a safe bet, that OPA627AU's on an adapter from one seller, will look and work like those from another seller. All of you folks new to the Zero, should buy the Zero from which ever seller has a package offering that fits your needs or wants. It looks like we have 3 sellers now, that have done well recently, so everybody wins!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Hopefully soon, we'll have more information about different DAC Opamp/HDAM/other options, and it will be even easier to make choices.

 I did want to say that the Zero with OPA627AU's and LT1364's, is still an excellent sounding combination for the majority of uses we have seen so far, especially for those on a tight budget. Modifications can always be done later, so this will help spread out any improvement costs over time.

 I've been doing some work on one of my Zero's, with assistance from Pricklely Peete via email and mail, and it has been fun and educational. When I'm completely done, I'll post my impressions here, but this might not happen for a few weeks. I have more parts coming and my soldering is skilled, but slow. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A note for the folks trying out new options/ideas with the Zero and reporting their impressions of them; Please don't forget to tell everyone if the improvements noted are "only DAC output" or "only Headphone amp output" or "DAC output + Headphone amp output". I just helps cut down on possible confusion later. I forget this one sometimes too! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for everyone's input and time spent on the Zero! You guys have proven the Zero is even better than I reported in my review, and I appreciate all you have done! I would have never guessed this little unit would end up having such a great following! It is more proof that there is nothing better than having quality audio at extremely small prices. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks again!


----------



## Enthusia

You make it sound as though your leaving us Penchum lol.


----------



## ccschua

I have been talking to designer of HDAM, apparently the new Earth and Sun is based on the same circuit design, just an improvement over the specifications/parameters and the components selection and installation.

 My new unit will come with extension wire of 100mm (free for me only).


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Enthusia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You make it sound as though your leaving us Penchum lol._

 

Ow! Sorry. I didn't realize that! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 No, I'm not going anywhere anytime soon. I am very happy about you guys though! It is nice to see others having a good time with the same equipment.


----------



## matrix200

Hey Penchum don't leave us yet , we still need your guidance 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Anyway back to my pops issue , I am hoping the toslink usb adapter will solve it.
 Like I said the big receiver I am using for speakers output (Kenwood 7020D) is the major contributor to these.
 However even with this thing turned off and disconnected I still have some pops (say one per day or maybe less).
 Generally they are not as loud , but still extremely annoying.


----------



## punk_guy182

Does anyone have issues with the headphone jack of the ZERO? I have problems listening to music in both cans.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *matrix200* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Penchum don't leave us yet , we still need your guidance 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Anyway back to my pops issue , I am hoping the toslink usb adapter will solve it.
 Like I said the big receiver I am using for speakers output (Kenwood 7020D) is the major contributor to these.
 However even with this thing turned off and disconnected I still have some pops (say one per day or maybe less).
 Generally they are not as loud , but still extremely annoying._

 

Ya, see, this is why it has me scratching! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I suppose it might still be driver/plugin related, but it is so rare in occurrence! I've had my Zero totally gutted on my work bench, and thought about this popping thing, and it makes no sense from an "internal" point of view. I will continue to research this. If the new USB adapter doesn't have this problem, then it will be a soundcard/driver/plugin problem for sure. Keep us posted!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punk_guy182* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone have issues with the headphone jack of the ZERO? I have problems listening to music in both cans._

 

Give us some more information on the problem, so we can follow along. It may be something simple!


----------



## gunbunnysoulja

I'm planning on getting the Zero Dac, but I'm not sure who to purchase it from.

 Is one seller on ebay better than another for this, or should I just go by feedback?

 Are there any sites available for purchase, or is it strickly ebay?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gunbunnysoulja* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm planning on getting the Zero Dac, but I'm not sure who to purchase it from.

 Is one seller on ebay better than another for this, or should I just go by feedback?

 Are there any sites available for purchase, or is it strickly ebay?_

 

The ones on eBay are ok, just look them over closely to see what Opamps they are providing, and anything else they might be providing.

 The other method is to get the "HeadFi Deal" Lawrence is selling (New Zero + 2 OPA627AU's on adapter for the DAC + 2 LT1364's for the headphone amp) can be had for $139+$41 ship, if you email him at lawrencechanbig@msn.com and tell him you are a member of HeadFi, and ask him for the Zero with the "HeadFi deal". He'll send you a PayPal payment notice, and you pay with this.

 If none of this makes much sense, please go back about 30 pages and read until you are back here again. It is all about "upgrades" to the stock Zero.


----------



## ccschua

This is the thread that discuss the new opamp.

diyAudio Forums - Discrete OPAMP


----------



## gunbunnysoulja

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The ones on eBay are ok, just look them over closely to see what Opamps they are providing, and anything else they might be providing.

 The other method is to get the "HeadFi Deal" Lawrence is selling (New Zero + 2 OPA627AU's on adapter for the DAC + 2 LT1364's for the headphone amp) can be had for $139+$41 ship, if you email him at lawrencechanbig@msn.com and tell him you are a member of HeadFi, and ask him for the Zero with the "HeadFi deal". He'll send you a PayPal payment notice, and you pay with this.

 If none of this makes much sense, please go back about 30 pages and read until you are back here again. It is all about "upgrades" to the stock Zero. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks for your quick reply. 

 I appreciate the info and I also appreciate your dedication to this great thread.

 I will be sure to send him an email.


----------



## Nedman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My new unit will come with extension wire of 100mm (free for me only)._

 

Bugger he charged me $3 for it LOL.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have been talking to designer of HDAM, apparently the new Earth and Sun is based on the same circuit design, just an improvement over the specifications/parameters and the components selection and installation.

 My new unit will come with extension wire of 100mm (free for me only)._

 

I'm not sure a 100mm length is going to help much, unless you lay the HDAM on top of the mainboard? I think mine is 12 inches, and my HDAM cable reaches the area between the mainboard and headamp board, where I used Velcro to secure it to the surface of the case bottom. You should check into this before it arrives, in case you have to make some kind of preparations.


----------



## Nedman

100mm should be enough to get it in between the DAC board and the amp board. It's only 24mm wide and the gap is about 35mm. And it's around 60mm from the socket, to the edge of the board.

 [Have to go to bed now, it's 4am here in Aust]


----------



## Garret Jax

So far, I'm loving my Zero DAC. The only thing I wish is that it had an analog in - so I could try my PCI sound card's DAC and use the Zero to amp the signal to my headphones. Right now, I use the optical out on my sound card. Too bad.


----------



## katanka

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Garret Jax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So far, I'm loving my Zero DAC. The only thing I wish is that it had an analog in - so I could try my PCI sound card's DAC and use the Zero to amp the signal to my headphones. Right now, I use the optical out on my sound card. Too bad._

 

Im sure the zero dac will sound better than your sound card anyway. Or else you could just get a headphone amp for your sound card.


----------



## katanka

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have been talking to designer of HDAM, apparently the new Earth and Sun is based on the same circuit design, just an improvement over the specifications/parameters and the components selection and installation.

 My new unit will come with extension wire of 100mm (free for me only)._

 

Did you order both earth and sun dual op amps ?


----------



## Garret Jax

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *katanka* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Im sure the zero dac will sound better than your sound card anyway. Or else you could just get a headphone amp for your sound card._

 

Probably, but I'm not sure. I own the HT Omega Claro+, which has upgraded OPAMPS (AD8620BR) and DAC (AK4396VF). It sounded incredible with my HD-595 cans, but the card is not powerful enough to drive the HD-650 cans. I m still burning in the Zero and HD-650 cans (just got 'em both!) so we'll see in a week or two.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nedman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_100mm should be enough to get it in between the DAC board and the amp board. It's only 24mm wide and the gap is about 35mm. And it's around 60mm from the socket, to the edge of the board.

 [Have to go to bed now, it's 4am here in Aust]_

 

There is a path for the cable to run in, that should allow the HDAM to lay down in that space. If you draw a line directly from the Opamp socket, to the space between the main and head boards, you'll notice the cable should be able to go almost directly there. I'll take a pic after bit and post it, so you can see what I mean.

 Because of shorting, heat and interference possibilities, the HDAM will need to be wrapped in something to insulate it. I used electrical tape for this.

 I'll be working on mine again today, so I'll take another close look and see if other locations are possible, with a shorter 100mm cable.


----------



## Penchum

Here is a shot from above. I put the long cable in the path I was talking about, and I put a 100mm smoke on there, so you could see the length. As long as the wire they use is flexible, you should be ok.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Citizen86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hope you sent him another email since then. Really sucks he still hasn't replied though, sorry man 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Couldn't see the point, to be honest. He has my original email, he has one from Paypal when I started through the "resolution centre", and another when I escalated it to a dispute.

 Even if he hadn't received my email, he'd have received a copy of it through the Paypal resolution centre. He's avoiding me, I'm sorry to say. And I still advise using caution - I know he's had a lot of happy customers, but he appears to be unwilling to make good on faulty units.

 I have an email from him clarifying that it comes with a 12-month warranty, too. Fat lot of good that's been to me...

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Nedman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here is a shot from above. I put the long cable in the path I was talking about, and I put a 100mm smoke on there, so you could see the length. As long as the wire they use is flexible, you should be ok._

 

Here's the unit he supplies [with the 50mm extension]. The wire looks reasonably flexible, so it should be OK. Will need to be cleaned up with some zip ties and insulation tape. Thanks for the idea for using Velcro to hold the unit down, I was just going to drill some holes for zip ties.

 PS/All up, with the 100mm extension lead, delivery to Australia, and a 4% paypal surcharge it comes to $52USD [around $57.50AU] for the duel OPA-SUN unit. 
 [$30 for the Sun unit + $17 delivery + $3 extension lead + $2 Paypal].


----------



## AudioPhewl

Am I the only one sitting here, looking at these "extension leads", thinking they're a magnet for RFI...

 It can't be too hard to devise a lead with some insulation and shielding, can it?

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Well fellow Zero enthusiasts....I'm off on vacation for a couple of weeks starting Monday.....I know you guys will miss my cheery banter 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....Have a good time while I'm away and try not to blow up your stuff 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 See you in a few weeks..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.

 PS Good things are afoot for the Zero.....


----------



## AudioPhewl

Have fun, Peete 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here is a shot from above. I put the long cable in the path I was talking about, and I put a 100mm smoke on there, so you could see the length. As long as the wire they use is flexible, you should be ok.




_

 

That's a freakin' big cigarette.....lol...that's all I could think of looking at the pic

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Thanks AP !!! Still have an hour or two to hang...listen to MKIII etc...

 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

If you try *really* hard, you may even get the 5,000th post in this thread. What a spectacular send-off that'd be for your holidays...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

LOL...did I win ?

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Doh...only 3...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

more.....


----------



## AudioPhewl

Nah, you're waaaaaaaaaay off .

 I'm off to bed. You need to draw out 3 more responses to hit the magic figure. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ~Ph.


----------



## AudioPhewl

HOOORAZAH!!!!!! Sniped Peete 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

to go.......

 Hey ......what did I win ?

 A bag of chips ? BBQ....cool...NooooooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooo....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Arrrgggggghhhhhh LOL

 I've had my fun for the year....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Pick a prize then give it to me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I stole your crown 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 Will trade for a working Zero 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl


----------



## Pricklely Peete

AP you get your chips from AD yet ?

 Peete.


----------



## Nedman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Am I the only one sitting here, looking at these "extension leads", thinking they're a magnet for RFI...

 It can't be too hard to devise a lead with some insulation and shielding, can it?

 ~Phewl._

 

Thanks, do you think adding some insulation and a small clip-on ferrite choke near the unit would help? [their only worth a few dollars, I guess it couldn't hurt?]


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Try it out first..you may not need to worry about it...

 Peete.


----------



## Nedman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Try it out first..you may not need to worry about it...

 Peete._

 

And just thinking about it, a ferrite choke most likely wouldn't work in that position. As it would only shield the incoming wires. Not the ones leaving the unit. Better off with going with ones on the RCA leads if it's a problem [been thinking about getting some anyway].


----------



## ianp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is the thread that discuss the new opamp.

diyAudio Forums - Discrete OPAMP_

 

Link to the sellers site - http://www.audio-gd.com/enweb/pro/diy/OPA.htm


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *katanka* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you order both earth and sun dual op amps ?_

 

Yeap. In fact I order 2 sets of both. Mr Ho just thinks that longer cable than 100mm will result in changing some component to compensate for the cable runs.

 Earth is neutral. Sun is dynamic, good impulse response.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeap. In fact I order 2 sets of both. Mr Ho just thinks that longer cable than 100mm will result in changing some component to compensate for the cable runs.

 Earth is neutral. Sun is dynamic, good impulse response._

 

Is the price for them $22.5 and $30??? That is a VERY nice price. I had decided to not get the HDAM, and instead save the dough for my next dac upgrade, but with these prices!!!


----------



## Nedman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the price for them $22.5 and $30??? That is a VERY nice price. I had decided to not get the HDAM, and instead save the dough for my next dac upgrade, but with these prices!!!_

 

Plus $3 each for the extended cables.


----------



## Penchum

Hi Guys!

 The longer extension (in the pic I posted) is insulated and I get no interference whatsoever. I was thinking the shorter one was too (looking at the other pic) but I could be wrong on that.

 Since the new module will be located basically as far from the transformer as possible, I don't think interference will be a problem. When I took my PIC, I removed the Velcro accidentally, so you can't really see where I had it. It was located furthest left as possible, in between the two boards. I just figured the furthest away from the transformer was the best bet.

 The Velcro I have is too industrial in strength. When you try to separate it before the adhesive sets, the whole works comes off. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'll have to stick it again and leave it alone for a few days. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Originally, I had thought I would split a section of heat shrink, to surround the wires and heat it up. However, I realized that I would be sacrificing any flexibility the wire had by doing this. So, I just gave it a try without anything extra, and it worked out wonderfully. I would suggest doing the same with the new modules too.

 I am concerned about the possible shorting of the module, due to the under side of the soldering joints being on the outside surfaces. I don't think there is anyway around wrapping the whole module to insulate and sticking it down to isolate it's movements. There may be more creative methods than mine though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Have a good one!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the price for them $22.5 and $30??? That is a VERY nice price. I had decided to not get the HDAM, and instead save the dough for my next dac upgrade, but with these prices!!!_

 

X2! Very nice indeed! I hope they sound great!


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeap. In fact I order 2 sets of both. Mr Ho just thinks that longer cable than 100mm will result in changing some component to compensate for the cable runs.

 Earth is neutral. Sun is dynamic, good impulse response._

 

I'm eagerly waiting for impressions on them


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Guys!

 The longer extension (in the pic I posted) is insulated and I get no interference whatsoever. I was thinking the shorter one was too (looking at the other pic) but I could be wrong on that.

 Since the new module will be located basically as far from the transformer as possible, I don't think interference will be a problem. When I took my PIC, I removed the Velcro accidentally, so you can't really see where I had it. It was located furthest left as possible, in between the two boards. I just figured the furthest away from the transformer was the best bet.

 There may be more creative methods than mine though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Have a good one! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I wouldn't know if the inteference would cut in, but if it is, it is going to be amplified few hundred or thousands times by the amp. Just like power cord too, being input source, u would want as Clean as possible.

 Looking at the long cable of the HDAM (the green long cable), it seems there is no cable shielding, even if shielded, the shield has to be grounded at 1 end (normally the sending end).

 Under such situation (inc long cable), oscillation would occur. Under such situation, the sound at high end delivery is more outstanding but not necessary silky delicate. 

 Let me try the second generation and come back you all.


----------



## Garret Jax

Perhaps there should be a separate thread for Zero mods? So many people mod this amp but the details are lost in this 5000+ thread.


----------



## Nedman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am concerned about the possible shorting of the module, due to the under side of the soldering joints being on the outside surfaces. I don't think there is anyway around wrapping the whole module to insulate and sticking it down to isolate it's movements. There may be more creative methods than mine though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Have a good one! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I was thinking about the mounting. But I wasn't thinking about mounting it on one of the sides with the exposed solder. Those sides have the base plate extending out, by what looks to be around 3mm or 4mm. What I was thinking was to superglue something along the two exposed edges of the unit. I'm not too sure what yet, maybe a piece of 30mmW x 4.5mmT x 35mm to 40mm long pine. Or a piece of 3mm PVC. It all depends on what I can find. And then sticking the Velcro onto that.


----------



## coolchu001

I just got this amp, the build quality is pretty good but my unit was a bit wobbly. Fixed that problem by just bending it a bit without the cover attached. I got the OPA627AP with mine. However when I feed 192KHz signal from my Razer AC-1 via optical, there is no sound, 96KHz sounds very good.


----------



## boodi

how many of you have ordered/ tried one hdam ?


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_AP you get your chips from AD yet ?

 Peete._

 

Yep, they arrived last week. Not touching a thing until the Paypal dispute has ran it's course 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nedman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks, do you think adding some insulation and a small clip-on ferrite choke near the unit would help? [their only worth a few dollars, I guess it couldn't hurt?]_

 

Firstly, I don't know if the cable runs would be a problem or not. It was just speculation - unshielded wires can pick up all manner of nasty sounds. Having an unshielded wiring harness transferring audio signals to and from amplifier packs can't really ever be described as a "good thing".

 Whether it is a bad thing or not is something I can't answer.

 If I were making extension leads, then I'd be looking at making them out of shielded cable. It's less likely to do any harm than leaving them exposed.

 I guess the easiest way to check would be to have the unit powered up next to a television, or a microwave. Plug in the headphones and listen for any background noise...

 ~Phewl.


----------



## boodi

any chance to know more opinion about the hdam sound ?


----------



## Oya?

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Guys!

 The longer extension (in the pic I posted) is insulated and I get no interference whatsoever. I was thinking the shorter one was too (looking at the other pic) but I could be wrong on that.

 Since the new module will be located basically as far from the transformer as possible, I don't think interference will be a problem. When I took my PIC, I removed the Velcro accidentally, so you can't really see where I had it. It was located furthest left as possible, in between the two boards. I just figured the furthest away from the transformer was the best bet.

 The Velcro I have is too industrial in strength. When you try to separate it before the adhesive sets, the whole works comes off. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll have to stick it again and leave it alone for a few days. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Originally, I had thought I would split a section of heat shrink, to surround the wires and heat it up. However, I realized that I would be sacrificing any flexibility the wire had by doing this. So, I just gave it a try without anything extra, and it worked out wonderfully. I would suggest doing the same with the new modules too.

 I am concerned about the possible shorting of the module, due to the under side of the soldering joints being on the outside surfaces. I don't think there is anyway around wrapping the whole module to insulate and sticking it down to isolate it's movements. There may be more creative methods than mine though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Have a good one! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hehe, you'd probably wince if you saw mine. I used plastic tie-wraps and attached the HDAM to one of the cable bundles right next to the big transformer thing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm not getting any (audible) problems though, and at least it's not moving around.

 And speaking of the solder joints, sparks were arcing when I rubbed the module against the heat-sinks. Somewhat fun until I shocked myself. Would wrapping the HDAM in electrical tape work, or will it just introduce more problems (ie. heat)?

 OT, my OPA627s finally arrived. Got to do some casual A/B swapping.


----------



## indianbraker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boodi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_any chance to know more opinion about the hdam sound ?_

 

i think there was a full review on the hdam op amps and it compared them to the opa627s....the 627s achieved 75 percent of the potential and for double the price you can achive the extra 25 percent...you and your wallet decide whats best


----------



## Enthusia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indianbraker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i think there was a full review on the hdam op amps and it compared them to the opa627s....the 627s achieved 75 percent of the potential and for double the price you can achive the extra 25 percent...you and your wallet decide whats best_

 

Can you find a link to that review for me? That 25% increase in performance sounds amazing, do you know how would this compare to the sun and earth opamps?


----------



## Nedman

Page 422.
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...ml#post4412869


----------



## boodi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nedman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Page 422.
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...ml#post4412869_

 

page is not important as long as desktop resolution changes it changes
 link is wrong too 









 (
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## Currawong

So where can we get this "Earth and Sun" that's better than the HDAM?


----------



## No Smoking

Would you guys say that the upgraded version of the Zero available from Lawrence is worth the extra 20-30dollars? And what does the upgraded LT-1364 do?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oya?* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_"And speaking of the solder joints, sparks were arcing when I rubbed the module against the heat-sinks. Somewhat fun until I shocked myself."_

 






 I think I just passed out!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ow man, I needed that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Um, electrical tape wrapping would be minimum I think. The module doesn't get hot, so no melting, oozing, nasty sticky tape.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *No Smoking* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would you guys say that the upgraded version of the Zero available from Lawrence is worth the extra 20-30dollars? And what does the upgraded LT-1364 do?_

 

Combined with the OPA627AU's in the DAC section, the LT1364's improve the sound of the headphone amp section greatly. This "Impression" of the headphone amp improvements spans the majority of headphones and types of music, so that covers the majority of users so far.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So where can we get this "Earth and Sun" that's better than the HDAM?_

 

U can review his intro and order from here. he is always a busy man (at internet).

ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1


----------



## Penchum

Pricklely Peete's (PP) review of the HDAM vs OPA627BP's starts here with part 1: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...ml#post4347317

 and continues on with part 2 here: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...ml#post4412869

 Just a little background info. PP spent over 2 weeks evaluating and testing before writing part one, and another two weeks for part two. This isn't one of those "shot from the hip" kind of writings we see too often. This is based on real analysis and impressions during those time periods. I have every confidence in PP's abilities, like they were my own.

 I have the HDAM in my Zero #1. I have held off writing about it, because I'm doing some extensive modifications to the power supply, analog and head amp sections, that require a great deal of "maturing" time, before evaluating the changes. This is an ongoing joint effort with PP, and I'm going to wait for his return from vacation, before adding to his analysis of the modifications. This vacation delay works out great, because I have more mods to do and more maturing to accomplish after that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The one thing I can provide him with, is ABing the entire unit's modifications vs. a "HeadFi Deal" Zero. My #2 Zero has the same Opamps as the "HeadFi Deal" and I can feed both units at the same time, from one source.

 This joint effort will be very interesting and I'm looking forward to helping PP in his efforts to greatly improve the Zero with "low cost" high return components. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So, for now, It's "Film at eleven".


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Garret Jax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Perhaps there should be a separate thread for Zero mods? So many people mod this amp but the details are lost in this 5000+ thread. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

This was looked at some time ago. I agree it can be a pain. I think I'll try to put links to the mods as an addendum to the review, so it would be easier to find everything. I'll try to work on this today, if time permits.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_U can review his intro and order from here. he is always a busy man (at internet).

ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1_

 

I don't know if everyone read this part, but it seems the "earth" is the HDAM that has been sold all along by "audio-gd". This is exactly what my HDAM has on it's sticker. Here is what they say about the "Earth": 

 "OPA – Earth : Our first generation discrete opamp has been sold throughout the world by other marketing means. This discrete opamp utilizes integrated cascode circuit with the schematic based on single channel circuit which is an improvement based on new improved parameters and technology. The sound characteristics is neutral and natural. THD Less than 0.0005%(1KHz), Operating voltage：±9 TO ±25V，Open loop gain：35DB，Operating current：Approx. 28MA（Single Output），Approx. 56MA（Dual Output）。

 The new model called "Sun" is the latest HDAM and here is what they say:

 "OPA-SUN : This discrete opamp uses full balanced circuit design which is widely accepted by our Hong Kong and American followers among our other products. The sound characteristics is energetic, huge dynamics and good impulse response. THD Less than 0.0003%(1KHz), Operating voltage ：±9 TO ±25V，Open loop gain：42DB，Operating current：Approx. 22MA（Single Output），Approx. 44MA（Dual Output）。

 For the asking price, they both seem pretty exciting! I hope we hear some news on how the new one sounds soon.


----------



## boodi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pricklely Peete's (PP) review of the HDAM vs OPA627BP's starts here with part 1: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...ml#post4347317

 and continues on with part 2 here: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...ml#post4412869
_

 

AM I the only to get wrong links ..


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boodi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_AM I the only to get wrong links ..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

Yep, I think so. You may need to dump your browser cache and reload. I used the direct links to both his review parts, so it should be taking you directly there.


----------



## Nedman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't know if everyone read this part, but it seems the "earth" is the HDAM that has been sold all along by "audio-gd". This is exactly what my HDAM has on it's sticker._

 

That's not a bad little markup Lawrence was making on those HDAM units 
 [wish I'd have thought of it first 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ].

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boodi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_AM I the only to get wrong links ..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep, I think so. You may need to dump your browser cache and reload. I used the direct links to both his review parts, so it should be taking you directly there. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

As did I to the second review. 

 BTW I'm pretty sure how many posts there is on a page has nothing to do with screen resolution. [Forum setting should be independent of any setting you have on your own computer]


----------



## ccschua

With regards to the Nomenclature of the Earth and Sun OPA, it goes like this.

 Earth, representative of mother nature, peace, has the sound that binds this element.

 Sun represents Openness, attack, vivacity, can clearly shows the dynamics of musics. 

 If the support for these products is encouraging, the designer has another unit in Mind - Moon, with the soft and warm glow tubes like sound.

 Hope to receive my unit by next week.


----------



## ccschua

Further to OPA Sun and Earth, the DAC section is OPA-Sun while the Headphone section is OPA-Earth. But not sure if this is overkill.

 Well mother nature receive the blessing from the Sun.


----------



## boodi

do you have both of hem ?


----------



## pete~

but i would like to buy a modded zero dac. Can somebody perhaps penchum, do it for me, then sell it to me?


----------



## AudioPhewl

Why can't you deal with the multiple sellers, Pete?

 ~Phewl.


----------



## pete~

Well I have seen the lampizated dac and i wated one of those. If not, I would like a ready made modded version.

 It doesnt matter who does it.


----------



## AudioPhewl

The "Lampizated" version is DIY modded.

 The "Head-Fi" is a standard unit, sold by Lawrence, with uprated opamps.

 You can order it direct from him, his details are posted every few pages throughout this thread.

 Why are you wanting to order it from a Head-Fi member, rather than order it direct? Do you have problems getting stuff imported or something?

 ~Phewl.


----------



## pete~

Quote:


 The "Lampizated" version is DIY modded. 
 

Yes I know which is why I asked if someone could sell me one ready made.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 The "Head-Fi" is a standard unit, sold by Lawrence, with uprated opamps.

 You can order it direct from him, his details are posted every few pages throughout this thread.

 Why are you wanting to order it from a Head-Fi member, rather than order it direct? Do you have problems getting stuff imported or something?

 ~Phewl._

 


 Well will the one from lawrence be ready made and ready to use straight away?

 Why would I have trouble importing stuff? 

 (No I don't.)


----------



## pete~

actually I was thinking about the sun and earth mods. Are these for rca output too or headphone out? 

 I dont want to install the sun or earth modules myself so I am asking if there is a ready built version.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes I know which is why I asked if someone could sell me one ready made._

 

Right, gotcha. Order all the bits and I'll do it for you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. UK shipping may hurt you though.

  Quote:


 Well will the one from lawrence be ready made and ready to use straight away? 
 

Yes it is, so long as he ships the upgraded components 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

  Quote:


 Why would I have trouble importing stuff? 

 (No I don't.) 
 

I don't know, I just didn't understand why you were looking to buy the DAC from someone on here rather than the vendor. Your post wasn't exactly clear. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## pete~

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Right, gotcha. Order all the bits and I'll do it for you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. UK shipping may hurt you though.



 Yes it is, so long as he ships the upgraded components 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.



 I don't know, I just didn't understand why you were looking to buy the DAC from someone on here rather than the vendor. Your post wasn't exactly clear. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 


 But have you tried/heard the lampizator mod? It looks quite complicated. It requires a power supply for the tube, plus drilling a hole, and the wiring...etc etc

 I cannot do it.

 And I am in the Uk. I thought you were too?


----------



## AudioPhewl

I've not heard it. Confident I could build it though, it doesn't look all that complicated.

 Don't ask me about casing it up though! Electronics is fine, metalwork is not my talent 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 Yes, I'm in the UK. You should fill out your location field in your profile; the automatic assumption is that folk are from the States, as they seem to make up most of the members on this forum.


----------



## pete~

ive sent you a message audiophewl.

 but how will the transformer for the tube be secured inside the unit? 

 it will need to be screwed down (obviously).


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_but i would like to buy a modded zero dac. Can somebody perhaps penchum, do it for me, then sell it to me?_

 

Thanks for the vote of confidence pete~! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 After reading your posts, I think I see what you are after. While I agree with you the "tube" modified Zero looks tempting, it isn't the kind of "mod" most of us here would probably do. It would be easier to have a tube amp like the MKIII, driven by a Zero DAC/Amp, and take the MKIII's "tube" output and run that into a stereo system, for that yummy tube enhanced sound.

 I also think you would get decent results with the "HeadFi Deal" Zero. Some have even said that they think the sound of the HeadFi Deal Zero is more tube like. If you ordered one of these, it comes ready to plug in and run. After a decent "maturing" time, if you decided you wanted to upgrade further, you could order one of those "earth" or "sun" HDAMs and one of us here could "walk" you through putting it in. It is not difficult at all. Very "Plug and Play".

 Well, I hope this helps some. Don't get too caught up in the details. Start at a point you are comfortable with, and the nice folks in this thread can help you do the next step, if you want.


----------



## pete~

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the vote of confidence pete~! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 After reading your posts, I think I see what you are after. While I agree with you the "tube" modified Zero looks tempting, it isn't the kind of "mod" most of us here would probably do. It would be easier to have a tube amp like the MKIII, driven by a Zero DAC/Amp, and take the MKIII's "tube" output and run that into a stereo system, for that yummy tube enhanced sound.

 I also think you would get decent results with the "HeadFi Deal" Zero. Some have even said that they think the sound of the HeadFi Deal Zero is more tube like. If you ordered one of these, it comes ready to plug in and run. After a decent "maturing" time, if you decided you wanted to upgrade further, you could order one of those "earth" or "sun" HDAMs and one of us here could "walk" you through putting it in. It is not difficult at all. Very "Plug and Play".

 Well, I hope this helps some. Don't get too caught up in the details. Start at a point you are comfortable with, and the nice folks in this thread can help you do the next step, if you want. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

but i already have my heart set on the lampizator. I just wonder if the volume control will still work or not.
 And which parts to get.

 Have you seen the mod on the lampizator page which bypasses the op amp altogether? 

 what do you think of that idea?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_but i already have my heart set on the lampizator. I just wonder if the volume control will still work or not.
 And which parts to get.

 Have you seen the mod on the lampizator page which bypasses the op amp altogether? 

 what do you think of that idea?_

 

Yes, I did read the whole thing and found it interesting. I'm not sure it is a typical user based modification though. It looks to require a fair amount of skills to get it done properly. 

 I'm not convinced this is going to give you the best bang for your pounds. It all comes down to what you already have, and where you want to be when done. 

 Give us some more details on this, and I'm sure some of us can tell you about alternatives you might not have checked out yet.

 The only true advice I can give you (with so little information available to me), is to not get locked into one idea, just because you have your heart set on it. Keep an open mind when researching a direction, to obtain your audio goals. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## AudioPhewl

My advice - get the standard DAC, and see how it goes for you. It's a fine sounding little thing. Order a few opamps and spend some hours seeing what gives you the best sound to your ears.

 The "Lampization" process will remove the headphone amplifier, if I'm looking at it correctly. Hence the volume pot will no longer work, it'll be a DAC without a variable output.

 The schematic for the "Lampizator" looks simple enough. You could probably do it yourself, if you really wanted to 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. It's only 7 caps, 8 resistors and a power supply 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I think I see what you are after. While I agree with you the "tube" modified Zero looks tempting, it isn't the kind of "mod" most of us here would probably do. It would be easier to have a tube amp like the MKIII, driven by a Zero DAC/Amp, and take the MKIII's "tube" output and run that into a stereo system, for that yummy tube enhanced sound._

 

This would, by far, be the simplest and aesthetically pleasing solution. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My advice - get the standard DAC, and see how it goes for you. It's a fine sounding little thing. Order a few opamps and spend some hours seeing what gives you the best sound to your ears.

 The "Lampization" process will remove the headphone amplifier, if I'm looking at it correctly. Hence the volume pot will no longer work, it'll be a DAC without a variable output.

 The schematic for the "Lampizator" looks simple enough. You could probably do it yourself, if you really wanted to 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. It's only 7 caps, 8 resistors and a power supply 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl._

 

Yes, AP is right. Unless you have tried the Zero (without Lampization) you won't know if it would have worked out fine for you.


----------



## pete~

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, AP is right. Unless you have tried the Zero (without Lampization) you won't know if it would have worked out fine for you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Ok but on that lampizator site it says the dac unit is ok as it is, nothing special. I just wanted the 'best' sound. What about the sun and earth mods, are these better than the standard op amp replacement mods? 

 HOwever, audiophewl and penchum, I think I read on the review here that the rca output amp is separate from the headphone output isnt this correct? 

 in which case if the lampizator mod was done, wouldnt it preserve the volume control? 

 It all depends on where the signal is taken from. I think its straight from the dac chip no?


----------



## pete~

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, I did read the whole thing and found it interesting. I'm not sure it is a typical user based modification though. It looks to require a fair amount of skills to get it done properly. 

 I'm not convinced this is going to give you the best bang for your pounds. It all comes down to what you already have, and where you want to be when done. 

 Give us some more details on this, and I'm sure some of us can tell you about alternatives you might not have checked out yet.

 The only true advice I can give you (with so little information available to me), is to not get locked into one idea, just because you have your heart set on it. Keep an open mind when researching a direction, to obtain your audio goals. Just my 2 cents. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well the only details I can give are that 

 1) I liked the idea of the unit having a volume control since at the moment I dont have one on my power amp.
 2) My budget is very tight so I cannot afford to spend too much on mods.
 3) I am NOT using headphones only the rca output. I use speakers.

 So I think those are the 3 main relevant points.

 Why do you feel the lampizator mod will not give me the best bang for bucks?


----------



## P_1

I wanted to just add some more impressions from the Zero. With the lm4562 in the dac and amp it actually sounds better than the Little Dot MK V. I was holding off on testing the lm4562 since the lme49720 are supposed to be identical, but this turns out to be not true sonically. I suspect that the lme49720 are probably made on a cheaper process compared to the lm4562.

 And to comment on the Earth and Sun discrete opamps, how are they possibly better than some of the opamp chips out there with much lower distortion ratings?

 Anyway here are a few things I noticed with my w5000's:
 Originally with the opa627 in the DAC and the lme49720's in the amp section it sounded harsh, the highs would almost go too high. The sound stage was also just average.

 Then I tried the Zero with the MK V with the opa627 in the DAC and the MK V sounded smooth almost like it was rolling off the highs and I found there to be a little bit more bass in terms of quantity not really extension.

 Then I tried the Zero with the MK V with the lme49720 in the DAC and the bass got tighter and the highs were less rolled off and the sound stage was still mediocre.

 Now I returned the MK V, put the lm4562 in the dac and amp, and the bass goes lower and more controlled, sounds more dynamic, and sound stage is seemingly increased. I'll update my impressions once the chips get burned in more, but so far this is fantastic.


----------



## richierich

Hey P1 where did you get the lm4562 from? I googled it and it shows up on this page.


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *P_1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wanted to just add some more impressions from the Zero. With the lm4562 in the dac and amp it actually sounds better than the Little Dot MK V. I was holding off on testing the lm4562 since the lme49720 are supposed to be identical, but this turns out to be not true sonically. I suspect that the lme49720 are probably made on a cheaper process compared to the lm4562.

 And to comment on the Earth and Sun discrete opamps, how are they possibly better than some of the opamp chips out there with much lower distortion ratings?

 Anyway here are a few things I noticed with my w5000's:
 Originally with the opa627 in the DAC and the lme49720's in the amp section it sounded harsh, the highs would almost go too high. The sound stage was also just average.

 Then I tried the Zero with the MK V with the opa627 in the DAC and the MK V sounded smooth almost like it was rolling off the highs and I found there to be a little bit more bass in terms of quantity not really extension.

 Then I tried the Zero with the MK V with the lme49720 in the DAC and the bass got tighter and the highs were less rolled off and the sound stage was still mediocre.

 Now I returned the MK V, put the lm4562 in the dac and amp, and the bass goes lower and more controlled, sounds more dynamic, and sound stage is seemingly increased. I'll update my impressions once the chips get burned in more, but so far this is fantastic._

 

We have pretty similar listening tastes, I guess. I had reached the very same conclusion on the LM4562 since last february, when I stopped my opamp rolling in the Zero. I use 3 of them, there is no real reason why mixing opamp types necessarily brings the best results. Maybe so, but I got the best sound with a more consistent approach.

 However, LM4562 and LME49720 are the very same chip (none of them could be exactly the same though).

 And yes, how an HDAM with inferior specs can possibly be better than an excellent opamp like LME49720/LM4562?

 The answer is that many people like a certain amount of distorsion, although they may not realize that.

 Have a look at these articles by Ethan Winer 

Audiophoolery

Dispelling Popular Audio Myths

http://www.ethanwiner.com/believe.html


----------



## Oya?

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 I think I just passed out!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ow man, I needed that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Um, electrical tape wrapping would be minimum I think. The module doesn't get hot, so no melting, oozing, nasty sticky tape. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Speaking of shielding...


----------



## LeBuLLeT

I am planning to get the HD650 or the K701 but what would be the best HDAM or Chip for these cans. I listen to Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, and Bob Marley and some other stuff but mostly that. What would be my best option for me.


----------



## P_1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_We have pretty similar listening tastes, I guess. I had reached the very same conclusion on the LM4562 since last february, when I stopped my opamp rolling in the Zero. I use 3 of them, there is no real reason why mixing opamp types necessarily brings the best results. Maybe so, but I got the best sound with a more consistent approach.

 However, LM4562 and LME49720 are the very same chip (none of them could be exactly the same though).

 And yes, how an HDAM with inferior specs can possibly be better than an excellent opamp like LME49720/LM4562?

 The answer is that many people like a certain amount of distorsion, although they may not realize that.

 Have a look at these articles by Ethan Winer 

Audiophoolery

Dispelling Popular Audio Myths

Why We Believe_

 

I have mentioned that they are supposed to be the same in my post. However I believe they are produced on different processes(as in silicon fabrication process). There is no mistake about the sound, it is totally different. My ears couldn't stand the lme49720 for long periods of time, they were too harsh/sibilant while the lm4562 are not. Looking at the sample packages you can see that they are produced on seperate lines, you can tell that its even a different machine producing it because the print and markings on the lm4562 are different than the lme49720(not just merely the print of course). 

 From my experience with computer hardware in the winbond bh5/ch5 days its easy to see that this is a similar situation. To give you guys a little history, bh5/ch5 were the best DDR chips back in the day, but one day the bh5 chips were discontinued, and became a legend;ch5 took its place. At face value they appeared to be almost the same chip except that ch5 was on a smaller manufacturing process which was cheaper to produce. However in terms of its overclocking performance, ch5 was far from a worthy successor to its predecessor. This all happened like 6 months before AMD made the switch to socket 939, where boards started appearing(most notably the DFI NF4 series) which could pump enough voltage into these chips and have enough timing adjustments to make the ch5 series shine. 

 In summary, the lme49720 is probably a cheaper version of the lm4562. Also we can't really tell for sure without cracking open the plastic casing around the chip, if you have any spares you should crack them both open and compare the die sizes. The lme49720 will probably be smaller.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *richierich* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey P1 where did you get the lm4562 from? I googled it and it shows up on this page._

 

Click on samples and then get the MDIP version(LM4562NA).


----------



## taso89

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *P_1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Click on samples and then get the MDIP version(LM4562NA)._

 

Do these require the brown dog adaptors or can they just be rolled right into the DAC and two headamp sections?


----------



## P_1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *taso89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do these require the brown dog adaptors or can they just be rolled right into the DAC and two headamp sections?_

 

They are dual, so theres no need for a brown dog. Meaning you can put them right in.


----------



## taso89

Awesome, time to order some samples 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 P_1, have you had a chance to try the OPA627 dac/ LT1469 amp combo? And if so how does it compare to the LM4562's all around?


----------



## richierich

Thanks P1, ordered max of 3 samples.


----------



## taso89

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *richierich* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks P1, ordered max of 3 samples._

 

You can order up to 5, and it's free if you use a work or school e-mail. I'll take 5 just in case 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 EDIT: I selected 5, but at the confirmation screen it appears they're sending me 3. That's all I needed but I wanted spare ones just in case


----------



## P_1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *taso89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Awesome, time to order some samples 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 P_1, have you had a chance to try the OPA627 dac/ LT1469 amp combo? And if so how does it compare to the LM4562's all around?_

 

I have not been able to try the LT1469's but I have tried the OPA627's in the DAC which sounded ok but the LM4562's I believe do a better job.


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *P_1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have mentioned that they are supposed to be the same in my post. However I believe they are produced on different processes(as in silicon fabrication process). There is no mistake about the sound, it is totally different. My ears couldn't stand the lme49720 for long periods of time, they were too harsh/sibilant while the lm4562 are not. Looking at the sample packages you can see that they are produced on seperate lines, you can tell that its even a different machine producing it because the print and markings on the lm4562 are different than the lme49720(not just merely the print of course). 

 From my experience with computer hardware in the winbond bh5/ch5 days its easy to see that this is a similar situation. To give you guys a little history, bh5/ch5 were the best DDR chips back in the day, but one day the bh5 chips were discontinued, and became a legend;ch5 took its place. At face value they appeared to be almost the same chip except that ch5 was on a smaller manufacturing process which was cheaper to produce. However in terms of its overclocking performance, ch5 was far from a worthy successor to its predecessor. This all happened like 6 months before AMD made the switch to socket 939, where boards started appearing(most notably the DFI NF4 series) which could pump enough voltage into these chips and have enough timing adjustments to make the ch5 series shine. 

 In summary, the lme49720 is probably a cheaper version of the lm4562. Also we can't really tell for sure without cracking open the plastic casing around the chip, if you have any spares you should crack them both open and compare the die sizes. The lme49720 will probably be smaller.


 Click on samples and then get the MDIP version(LM4562NA)._

 

I didn't have any chance to compare LM4562 against LME49720 yet, but I think it's worth trying and see by ourselves. I've just placed a sample order. Thanks! P.


----------



## decayed.cell

P_1, and then they made BH5-UTT 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Got a Team Xtreem DDR500 pair of them chugging in my system at the moment.

 Anyway, I got an answer from wsz0304 regarding the twin LT1364's in his upgraded Zero on sale on eBay

  Quote:


 Thank you for your message and sorry for my late reply. 
 Very regret that since the item is produced by mass production,the inner part could not be changed separately according to the manufacturer's regulation.Hope you please kindly understand.But we think you can make some DIY on it by yourself after you get one. 
 

Sounds like they are mass produced with the OPA627's installed and you'll have to roll your own LT1364's


----------



## P_1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_P_1, and then they made BH5-UTT 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Got a Team Xtreem DDR500 pair of them chugging in my system at the moment.

 Anyway, I got an answer from wsz0304 regarding the twin LT1364's in his upgraded Zero on sale on eBay



 Sounds like they are mass produced with the OPA627's installed and you'll have to roll your own LT1364's_

 

The bh5-utt still wasn't as good as the original and I didn't include that part in the story because theres no relevance here to what I am making an analogy to.


----------



## ScottieB

Whew - just finished reading the entire thread! Took some time but I think it was well worth it. In the time since i started reading I ordered, received and have mostly burned-in my Zero. Figured after all the help and info I received I'd at least share my experience (especially for those new to the thread who aren't as obsessive as me and don't feel like reading 500+ pages of posts (which gets even more daunting as every morning at least 2 new pages have sprung up!).

 anyway, after receiving much help and wisdom from Penchum about my Little Dot MKIII, I PMd him to ask for a DAC recommendation. I knew very little of DACs and had never heard of the Zero, but my requirements were simply "I need a good DAC for under $200" - he pointed me here and I pulled the trigger on the "head-fi special" from Lawrence (direct via email, no ebay). I ordered on a Thursday night, received a tracking number on Saturday, and the thing was here (but I missed it) wednesday afternoon. I picked it up Thursday (stupid signature confirmation - is anyone ever home when they deliver?). This was a very smooth, fast transaction and I'd recommend Lawrence as a seller, Phewl's bad experience notwithstanding.

 Worked perfectly out of the box. I am using it with my LD MKIII and my Xfi Fata1ity card (the one with the front panel and remote included) via coax on my PC (my gaming and lossless music machine) and my Mac Pro tower via optical (my work machine - I'm a video/film editor). It was a little "harsh" sounding at first, but this has mellowed out throughout the breakin period. My Senn HD600s are also still breaking in (they have about 150 hours on them) so this will only get better I think.

 About 50 pages back there was some conversation about the x-fi (and perhaps other creative cards) and what the best settings are. I have found through my own research and experimentation that bit-perfect and ASIO are the best way for the x-fi (in XP, I can't speak to Vista). Do NOT use ASIO4All, as creative has its own (much better IMHO) ASIO drivers. Bit-perfect is only available through "audio creation mode" and will disable any effects like DSP or EAX etc, but it gives you a bit-perfect signal, changing the card's clock on the fly to match the frequency of the original recording - I do not believe in resampling personally, especially on creative cards. If anyone would like some assistance in this setup please let me know and I can reply or PM. Oh I am using Foobar as my playback application.

 I also had an interesting occurrence during the breakin period. After a few hours of playing, I figured I'd "listen-in" for a while and see how things were going. I was very disturbed to hear a LOT of distortion and harsh sounds (sibilance, grating highs) coming from my Senns - much more than I'd ever had without the Zero (and just my x-fi line out to MKIII). I was using the internal amp to also break it in, so I thought maybe it would be better thru the MKIII - but this actually just amplified it. Maybe phones? tried my Grado SR-225s but they were even worse (the grados tend to accentuate the types of things I was hearing). Then I Figured maybe it was a bad coax cable, so I decided to try and A/B optical vs coax (which would suck if it was the problem - my mac has ONLY optical, so I'd have to forgo that...). Something made me decide to turn everything off and wait a while first though. When I came back 45 minutes later and started everything up, the harshness was gone. I did an A/B anyway just to be sure, and could tell NO difference whatsoever. Phew! All is good now, but what could have caused this (besides my ears playing tricks on me!)? Perhaps static? Ineteference in the cable? Overheating - just needed a break? Whatever it was, restarting everything fixed it!

 Ok I've rambled on enough. I'm waiting to hear more about these Earth/Sun HDAMs, as they sound like a very nice improvement, and the new pricing is a very good sign. I'm going to continue lurking here to see how this evolves... before he left for vacation, Peete hinted at good things about to happen... dang tease!

 Anyway thanks to all who contributed here and adopted early to work out the kinks and find the "magic" opamp combos for us newbies. I'm a very happy Zero owner.

 ScottieB


----------



## ccschua

Just wonder how u check the static. If that happen, u will hear humming and background noice. Then the sound would not disperse and distorted. check to ensure u have good earth. 

 well use a test pen.


----------



## katanka

Hey ScottieB 

 I have a very similar setup to you. Same sound card and exact same output method, IE: creative asio in audio creation mode with bit perfect selected and of course foobar2000. Im not sure what the harshness was you experienced except to say that when i first got my zero, it was bit harsh for the good couple of hours. I'm about to get the earth and sun hdams to see what they may sound like.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well the only details I can give are that 

 1) I liked the idea of the unit having a volume control since at the moment I dont have one on my power amp.
 2) My budget is very tight so I cannot afford to spend too much on mods.
 3) I am NOT using headphones only the rca output. I use speakers.

 So I think those are the 3 main relevant points.

 Why do you feel the lampizator mod will not give me the best bang for bucks?_

 

Well, first off and probably the show stopper, would be the volume control. It gets removed in this mod. From what I can tell, it HAS to be removed and it's function is no longer there.

 Knowing that you are using speakers only, changes the picture a little though. Budget concerns (I have them too) would keep you from getting a separate tube amp anytime soon, so I digress. You could get a better "tube" sound for your speaker rig, by having a tube amp like the MKIII in the "loop". That would represent the biggest "bang for the pound". Hundreds of users are using their MKIII's this way and the reports are glowing!

 Maybe the best recommendation at this point, is to get yourself a Zero and give it a try in your setup. You could slowly save up and add to this later on.?
 Have a good one!!


----------



## pete~

I have read that all input/output coupling capacitors should be removed.
 Penchum can you try this out and tell me if it makes any improvements?

 and how does it work? whats the science behind removing these capacitors?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oya?* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Speaking of shielding...









_

 

So, is it ok just like that? Looks all nuzzled in and ready to go.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have read that all input/output coupling capacitors should be removed.
 Penchum can you try this out and tell me if it makes any improvements?

 and how does it work? whats the science behind removing these capacitors?_

 

Hey Pete~,

 Just before PP went on vacation, he emailed me and told me he was going to put his back in. He had been testing their removal and in the end, decided that they were necessary for proper SQ. For right now, I'd say keep them in and I'll try to get clarification on the "why" part of this.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Whew - just finished "snip"

 ScottieB_

 

Well said and well done!


----------



## pete~

would you be able to tell me how they actually sound on a hifi system with speakers? 

 because most of whats been said only applies to headphone users..

 which could be completely misleading to me.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_would you be able to tell me how they actually sound on a hifi system with speakers? 

 because most of whats been said only applies to headphone users..

 which could be completely misleading to me._

 

I think so. PP was testing "both" uses. He has a seriously nice main rig and also a MKIII headphone amp. So far, his impressions of main rig SQ changes have been spot on with mine, which is cool. I'll see what I can find out.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok but on that lampizator site it says the dac unit is ok as it is, nothing special. I just wanted the 'best' sound. What about the sun and earth mods, are these better than the standard op amp replacement mods? 

 HOwever, audiophewl and penchum, I think I read on the review here that the rca output amp is separate from the headphone output isnt this correct? 

 in which case if the lampizator mod was done, wouldnt it preserve the volume control? 

 It all depends on where the signal is taken from. I think its straight from the dac chip no?_

 

The pre-amp and headphone amp is one and the same. It is removed during the Lampization DIY process.

 The "Lampucera" sounds more in line with what you want - there's not much point in purchasing the Zero if you're looking to get rid of the headphone stage. The "Lampizator" raves about "Lampucera" plenty.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## pete~

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The pre-amp and headphone amp is one and the same. It is removed during the Lampization DIY process.

 The "Lampucera" sounds more in line with what you want - there's not much point in purchasing the Zero if you're looking to get rid of the headphone stage. The "Lampizator" raves about "Lampucera" plenty.

 ~Phewl._

 

could you install a simple volume pot somewhere in the lampizated zero? 

 That would give me the volume control option back, AND the whole mod.

 Do you know enough electronics to add the volume option to it do you think?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_could you install a simple volume pot somewhere in the lampizated zero? 

 That would give me the volume control option back, AND the whole mod.

 Do you know enough electronics to add the volume option to it do you think?_

 

You would need the pre-amp/headphone section back. Without it, the DAC output is "line level" (fixed) only.


----------



## ianp

As described on this page - ZERODAC

 The steps are pretty straightforward, as per the above page:

 1. Remove the existing RCA sockets and install the proper Gucci jewellery.
 2. Lift the MINUS leg of 1st and 3rd decoupling capacitor - see picture of four Silmic caps in one row. (can be 2nd and 4th as well).
 3. Wire the lifted minus leg to the RCA
 4. Don't forget to add ground to the RCA's
 5. Remove opamp from sockets.
 6. If unused - remove the Headphone section altogether.

 I used some 22AWG teflon covered silver plated copper wire to some gold coloured RCA jacks from radioshack. Cutting the cap legs and attaching the wire was not as bad as I thought. I think the use of silver/teflon makes things easier here - silver for easy soldering and teflon as it doesn't melt 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I grounded the new RCAs to the original RCA connector - see yellow & green X in the below image.






 I have the wires all dangling out at the moment, but it does sounds just dandy, very smooth and silky. I think it's better than with HDAM at this point, but I need to do some serious comparisons. First impressions are just that. I need to live with the sound for a few hours. If the kids aren't in bed yet I'll break out the drill and make some holes for the new RCAs.

 Edit: Just checked headphone playback after the mod. Headphone playback continues to work, but the signal to the RCA also continues.

 In all its glory:


----------



## katanka

Hi Ianp

 Can you take a photo with all your wires soldered for this mod from above


----------



## Meliboeus

quick question for EU zero buyers, i ordered the zero from Lawrence...will it have to go through the customs or is it declared as a gift or something similar ?


----------



## Oya?

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, is it ok just like that? Looks all nuzzled in and ready to go. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It's not getting any problematic interference etc. in the nude; although I've ran into some heat problems, as it turns out that the panels I took off were also acting as copper heatsinks.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oya?* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's not getting any problematic interference etc. in the nude; although I've ran into some heat problems, as it turns out that the panels I took off were also acting as copper heatsinks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ow! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I didn't even think about removing them. Good point. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Gotta have some undies on then.


----------



## Nedman

Misread, sorry.


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Meliboeus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_quick question for EU zero buyers, i ordered the zero from Lawrence...will it have to go through the customs or is it declared as a gift or something similar ?_

 


 You must (and should always) pay customs duties. Be ready to spend an additional 28-30% of the total price+shipping charges and to fax a copy of the paypal payment upon customs request. Ask Lawrence for a copy of the invoice if customs require it. He will email it to you.


----------



## ccschua

After I read the Bypass job, I am still confused. I cant even know for sure if I can get it right.


----------



## Garret Jax

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You must (and should always) pay customs duties. Be ready to spend an additional 28-30% of the total price+shipping charges and to fax a copy of the paypal payment upon customs request. Ask Lawrence for a copy of the invoice if customs require it. He will email it to you._

 

In the US, I didn't have to pay any customs duties or provide any docs. How in the hell can they tax you *30%* to import a personal amplifier??? And you have to provide proof of paypal payment? That sucks.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Garret Jax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In the US, I didn't have to pay any customs duties or provide any docs. How in the hell can they tax you *30%* to import a personal amplifier??? And you have to provide proof of paypal payment? That sucks._

 

Yeah I haven't paid anything on the several things I've ordered from China, and it clears customs within a day, too... 30% is outrageous!

 And ccschua - me too! There's a few steps there that I kinda just said


----------



## Meliboeus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Garret Jax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In the US, I didn't have to pay any customs duties or provide any docs. How in the hell can they tax you *30%* to import a personal amplifier??? And you have to provide proof of paypal payment? That sucks._

 

yes in europe there are customs...but it is different from country to country, in Italy i will pay an addidional 20% on the value, i think excluding shipping costs, because surely i don't have to pay a tax for a service which has been requested in a foreign country...i pay value added tax on imported goods....proof of paypal payment...i don't know...the last time i got something from the customs i didn't need to....


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Meliboeus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yes in europe there are customs...but it is different from country to country, in Italy i will pay an addidional 20% on the value, i think excluding shipping costs, because surely i don't have to pay a tax for a service which has been requested in a foreign country...i pay value added tax on imported goods....proof of paypal payment...i don't know...the last time i got something from the customs i didn't need to...._

 


 Sorry pal, Italy is no different from other EU countries if not for the VAT percentage that may vary slightly from country to country. 

 In Italy you will pay an additional 20% for VAT (sarebbe l'IVA...) + about 10% in duties. This percentage will be calculated on the OVERALL amount (item value+shipping costs). That's the way it is...

 You'll get a note by registered mail saying that your item is waiting at customs and you will be required to provide ASAP the information I already mentioned by fax and/or email. Once you do. you will get the item within two to three days. So, in short: don't panic, pay and be patient


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oya?* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Speaking of shielding...









_

 

Doesn't your HDAM get too hot right there? That spot is right between the heat sinks for both the DAC and the headamp sections. I had to move my HDAM towards the front of the case on the left side (or right side depending on perspective) of the headamp right next to the potentiometer. Its much cooler up there.

 Or maybe I'm just a worry wart.


----------



## ianp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *katanka* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Ianp

 Can you take a photo with all your wires soldered for this mod from above_

 

The page that I mention has some good images. Let me elucidate the steps a little more:
  Quote:


 1. Remove the existing RCA sockets and install the proper Gucci jewellery. 
 

I left the existing RCAs alone as I drilled two holes in the back o the case to fit two new RCAs.

  Quote:


 2. Lift the MINUS leg of 1st and 3rd decoupling capacitor - see picture of four Silmic caps in one row. (can be 2nd and 4th as well). 
 

The first and third capacitors are clearly marked in the below image. You use a pair of snippers to cut the -ve lead and bend the capacitor over a little to give you easy access for the next step.






  Quote:


 3. Wire the lifted minus leg to the RCA 
 

You have cut the -ve leads on two capacitors in the previous step. One capacitor is the left channel and one is the right. You then simply run a wire from this cut -ve lead to the centre of the corresponding RCA plug. A single wire connected to the -ve lead can be seen in the below image.






  Quote:


 4. Don't forget to add ground to the RCA's 
 

On each RCA there is a ground collar/tag that slips over the screw thread that generally has a small hole that is perpendicular to the body of the RCA jack. In the below image you can see the hole at apprx 4 o'clock. 






 You run a a wire to this ground tag on both RCA jack. Then you run another wire from one of these tags to a suitable ground on the ZERO. As indicated in my earlier post I used the ground on the existing RCA jacks - see below image.






  Quote:


 5. Remove opamp from sockets.
 6. If unused - remove the Headphone section altogether 
 

I removed the opamp and left the headphone section alone.

 Once you have done the above you can then plug everything in an test using your cheapest amp and speakers.

 If you like what you hear you can then mount the new RCAs by drilling 2 holes in appropriate areas of the thin metal case back. 

 Hope this helps.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_could you install a simple volume pot somewhere in the lampizated zero? 

 That would give me the volume control option back, AND the whole mod.

 Do you know enough electronics to add the volume option to it do you think?_

 

Probably. I've got to be honest with you - I'm fine at following plans. I'm not here to discuss various alternatives to things - if you want it done, send me a Zero, the plans you want followed, and the parts, and some petty beer tokens.

 I can't suggest alternatives, nor tell you how the end result is going to sound. I've never built one, nor did I design it.

 You could probably add a volume pot, if you really wanted, if it were fitted directly after the output coupling capacitors. But I make no guarantees over this - I'm possibly wrong, and likely to be misleading you.

 I have to be honest here - you're barking up the wrong tree. You have expectations on how the thing is going to perform based on one mans experiences. You've no idea how good the basic package is, nor how good it sounds after some opamp rolling, nor any idea of how it performs with discrete-component amplifiers in place of the opamps.

 You're hankering after a valve solution - I'd really suggest starting out with a design based around valves.

 The "Lampizator" may be precisely what you're looking for - you're looking for a trike. Converting a motorcycle into a trike is a lot of extra effort. But the current approach is akin to converting a car into a trike.

 It may be precisely what you're looking for, but there are likely better ways to achieve your goal.

 Anyway, valves are a PITA. They run hot. they light the room with their glow, and they wear out. You should be after the Zero because it's solid-state, works damned well, and represents excellent value for money. Not because your main goal is to convert it into something else entirely.

 Of course, a working unit from the off would be great. I've still heard nothing at all from Lawrence, and will be firing off a chargeback at the start of next week. I'm disgusted by his ignorance of my problem 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## jhcasado

Hi all,

 I am starting to be a "little" audiophile, I own a sennheiser 555 and a shure se530 and I read this forums for several months. I love sound quality 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My next step was buy a headphone amp, but for my first amp I didn't want an expensive one.

 I thought that this Zero DAC is perfect for me and I contacted with Lawrence <lawrencechanbig@msn.com> on monday for the "headfi deal", he replied quickly and send me a paypal money request for if I was already decided.

 I paid him that same monday, and he never answered me again. I have written four mails this days and nothing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Has anyone contacted him these days?


 Sorry my english and thanks to everyone for this great community.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Which Monday was this? Have you been waiting for just a few days, or is it longer?

 I've had a very poor experience with him, but it would be fair to say I'm in the minority of folk on here.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## jhcasado

This Monday August 7.

 First, he answered fast and send me the paypal money request.

 After I paid him through Paypal, he never answered again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am beginning to worry, not much yet but a little.

 How long does it usually takes him to answer your mails?


----------



## AudioPhewl

Before he shipped the item, each day. After I received the faulty and incomplete package, I've heard nothing now for 2 weeks.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## jhcasado

Don't tell me that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But finally at least he send something.

 I hope to have luck.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Good luck 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. However things turn out, please keep this thread updated. People only get a fair idea of what to expect when people post their experiences, both good and bad. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## jhcasado

I'll do. I only hope that this has a happy ending.


----------



## Oya?

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Doesn't your HDAM get too hot right there? That spot is right between the heat sinks for both the DAC and the headamp sections. I had to move my HDAM towards the front of the case on the left side (or right side depending on perspective) of the headamp right next to the potentiometer. Its much cooler up there.

 Or maybe I'm just a worry wart._

 

It gets hot no matter where I put it, the cheeky thing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As I mentioned I've run into some heat problems, possibly due to a damaged module. But I'm gonna plug it in and give it another shot, keeping it directly under the chassis vents.


----------



## pete~

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Probably. I've got to be honest with you - I'm fine at following plans. I'm not here to discuss various alternatives to things - if you want it done, send me a Zero, the plans you want followed, and the parts, and some petty beer tokens.

 I can't suggest alternatives, nor tell you how the end result is going to sound. I've never built one, nor did I design it.

 You could probably add a volume pot, if you really wanted, if it were fitted directly after the output coupling capacitors. But I make no guarantees over this - I'm possibly wrong, and likely to be misleading you.

 I have to be honest here - you're barking up the wrong tree. You have expectations on how the thing is going to perform based on one mans experiences. You've no idea how good the basic package is, nor how good it sounds after some opamp rolling, nor any idea of how it performs with discrete-component amplifiers in place of the opamps.

 You're hankering after a valve solution - I'd really suggest starting out with a design based around valves.

 The "Lampizator" may be precisely what you're looking for - you're looking for a trike. Converting a motorcycle into a trike is a lot of extra effort. But the current approach is akin to converting a car into a trike.

 It may be precisely what you're looking for, but there are likely better ways to achieve your goal.

 Anyway, valves are a PITA. They run hot. they light the room with their glow, and they wear out. You should be after the Zero because it's solid-state, works damned well, and represents excellent value for money. Not because your main goal is to convert it into something else entirely.

 Of course, a working unit from the off would be great. I've still heard nothing at all from Lawrence, and will be firing off a chargeback at the start of next week. I'm disgusted by his ignorance of my problem 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl._

 


 where in the Uk are you? 

 also, I keep having doubts about purchasing. There have been various kinds of complaints about the unit on this forum havent there? 

 It may be a small minority but still, it is concerning and given the price, I am starting to think that it may not be a bargain after all..


----------



## katanka

Thank you Ianp for those pics and detailed instructions


----------



## Summer Jazz

Hi Ianp,
 I would like to know what is "install the proper Gucci jewellery"?
 Did u mod your Zero to include the tube? 
 Thanks!


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Summer Jazz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Ianp,
 I would like to know what is "install the proper Gucci jewellery"?
 Did u mod your Zero to include the tube? 
 Thanks!_

 

That means "install new good quality gold-plated RCA sockets"


----------



## Summer Jazz

Ah..ah. Thanks!


----------



## katanka

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That means "install new good quality gold-plated RCA sockets"_

 

LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was just gonna say that


----------



## No Smoking

Could someone please tell me if the Headfi deal from Lawrence comes with an optical cable and how long it is? Ive already sent him an email but his responce didnt answer my question so i thought id ask here.


----------



## Oya?

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *No Smoking* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Could someone please tell me if the Headfi deal from Lawrence comes with an optical cable and how long it is? Ive already sent him an email but his responce didnt answer my question so i thought id ask here._

 

Mine came with a meter long optical cable.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oya?* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine came with a meter long optical cable. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

x2


----------



## Garret Jax

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_x2_

 

x3


----------



## ckoffend

As I am in the market for a amp/DAC combo, what alternative devices (preferably single piece) has anybody compared this to? While the price looks nice, I am always a bit hesitant when somebody claims a particularly inexpensive piece is really terrific (no offense intended). Thanks to anybody who can provide some directly comparisons to other devices of similar function (DAC and amp in one).

 Thanks


----------



## Citizen86

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pete~* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_where in the Uk are you? 

 also, I keep having doubts about purchasing. There have been various kinds of complaints about the unit on this forum havent there? 

 It may be a small minority but still, it is concerning and given the price, I am starting to think that it may not be a bargain after all.._

 

For the price and the claimed audio quality, it's one of the best bargains you can get right now... if it works, that is (heh, sorry AP.... you should probably email him again).

 But I think I said it earlier... nobody is forcing a gun to your head to purchase this. You can always save some more money and buy a higher quality DAC/Amp if you think that will better serve you, and you will feel better with your purchase, or you can spend less and get a cheaper one if you think you won't like it then you're not out so much money... it's all up to you. 

 But honestly... I'm sure in whatever price bracket you purchase your equipment there is a chance of failure, so there is no guarantees whatever you decide to buy. Unless of course, you don't buy anything, that gives you 100% guarantee nothing will break and you won't be out any money


----------



## ianp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Summer Jazz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Ianp,
 I would like to know what is "install the proper Gucci jewellery"?
 Did u mod your Zero to include the tube? 
 Thanks!_

 

katanka is correct about the gucci, it means to use good quality RCA jacks.

 I have not yet installed the tube. I'm finding that my level of electrical knowledge around such things as tubes is such that it requires that I progress slowly. I am, very much as a background task, trying to put together a page with simple to understand instructions on this modification. I'll need input from others to make sure that it is correct though.

 If there is anyone with knowledge of electrical schematics with tube knowledge maybe they could drop me a PM.


----------



## ScottieB

There have been a few problems, sure, but what product doesn't have some problems? The VAST majority here have been happy with their units - also remember, the unhappy ones tend to be much more vocal than the satisfied ones (most of which are too busy listening!)


----------



## katanka

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ckoffend* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As I am in the market for a amp/DAC combo, what alternative devices (preferably single piece) has anybody compared this to? While the price looks nice, I am always a bit hesitant when somebody claims a particularly inexpensive piece is really terrific (no offense intended). Thanks to anybody who can provide some directly comparisons to other devices of similar function (DAC and amp in one).

 Thanks_

 

Well since you're in this thread, something must have sparked your interest. Not many people have compared the Zero to anything else AFAIK, being a budget DAC, im sure most people don't have other DACs to compare it to. What i can say is that for a mere $139 with the opamp upgrades, you're getting a really good deal, with really good sound and a heapamp that some have said is as good as a little dot mkv after some opamp rolling. 

 Take the plunge and join the ZERO high club


----------



## ccschua

Now I get your point about the snippit. It seems so easy now, after I meddle with thd RCA. Those RCA are just like papers, u can tear it apart. Prefer the solid stuff like WBT.

 Anyway, I will be getting the OPA Earth and Sun and hope I would not be disappointed with it. Just got my integrated Tube amp push pull. Now I am full steam ahead on HIFI.


----------



## closdubois

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *No Smoking* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Could someone please tell me if the Headfi deal from Lawrence comes with an optical cable and how long it is? Ive already sent him an email but his responce didnt answer my question so i thought id ask here._

 

I want to take the plunge and join the Zero club.
 What is the headfi deal from Lawrence? I take it he is selling the zero direct (no ebay). Where can I find his offer? Is this the best way to go? Is this the zero with the upgraded tranie?


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *closdubois* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I want to take the plunge and join the Zero club.
 What is the headfi deal from Lawrence? I take it he is selling the zero direct (no ebay). Where can I find his offer? Is this the best way to go? Is this the zero with the upgraded tranie?_

 

The head-fi deal includes the upgraded opamps (OPA672 in the DAC, LT1364s in the amp). You can buy direct from him by sending an email to lawrencechanbig@msn.com. He'll send you a paypal invoice.


----------



## Hales

Has anyone attempted to add another 3.3v power supply for the VA power input on the CS8416? 

 Has anyone attempted to make the PLL filter for the CS8416 more shielded and actually follow the recommended circuit?

 Has anyone attempted to bypass most of the junk in the Coax input and just use the simple SPDIF circuit recommended by Crystal?

 These are the 3 glaring issues I see on the DAC side. 

 The 3.3v analog input _directly _ effects jitter performance. Crystal recommends that this power supply be as clean as possible and that it be separate from the digital voltage section input. 

 The PLL filter is supposed to stay on the same side of the board, stay away from any other digital circuitry, and is supposed to be built to the recommended circuit diagram. This circuit is what recovers and reclocks the incoming signal and its seems to break all of the design recommendations made by Crystal.

 The SPDIF input should have 4 or 5 components in the path, but instead it splits and twists and turn and even drives a pair of transistors so that we get blinky led action. Crystal made the CS8416 to accept balanced or unbalanced digital with the end user only have to decouple it with a couple of caps and make sure the connection sees 75 ohms.

 The connections between the CS8416 and the AD1852 are really well done. So I don't see much that can be done there.


----------



## closdubois

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The head-fi deal includes the upgraded opamps (OPA672 in the DAC, LT1364s in the amp). You can buy direct from him by sending an email to lawrencechanbig@msn.com. He'll send you a paypal invoice._

 

Thanks, ScottieB


----------



## azncookiecutter

Haven't gotten a response back from Lawrence, so I assume he's bogged down with orders?


----------



## S.O.P

Took him at least 5-7 days to get back to me, I even had to PM Peete to make sure this was normal.

 Shipping took 9 days to Brisbane, Australia.

 I suppose without taking it apart there is no way to tell if you have the 'upgraded' version but I digress, I'm very happy with the perceived sound. ASIO is working with Foobar, Mediaportal and my H120 is outputting digital to it flawlessly as well.

 Mine does hum some and is audible at distance if there is no music playing. But otherwise, I'm hoping it can only get better. I also ran a set of Beyer DTX800 I use for gaming and I was pleased with the results, can't wait to get a decent set.


----------



## CountChoculaBot

Eh? The Zero's incredibly easy to take apart to check/swap anything. The four screws on the side, then the two screws in the back towards the top. Then slide the top back.


----------



## S.O.P

Yes, incredibly easy but it still involves taking it apart. Not that I'm bothered now, but perhaps later when I feel like it. I was just saying that without taking it apart, you have to trust someone's word.

 At the moment, it's doing what it's supposed to be doing....converting a signal.


----------



## jcmuse

alright, i wanna buy one of these badboys, but I don't have the time to read through all 500 pages of this thread. where & what should i be ordering exactly. i know there isn't any standard model for this dac and i want the best deal possible but from a reliable seller. I also would like the ability to connect via USB if possible for under $200.

 thanks in advance..

 btw i have read enough to know that lawrence seems to be the dude to buy from, but i can't find him on ebay.

 edit: Btw im using stock senn 580s and plan to use them directly with the dac (no seperate amp). not sure if there is a specific zero that i should be looking at for the hd580s.


----------



## Garret Jax

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *S.O.P* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Took him at least 5-7 days to get back to me, I even had to PM Peete to make sure this was normal.

 Shipping took 9 days to Brisbane, Australia.

 I suppose without taking it apart there is no way to tell if you have the 'upgraded' version but I digress, I'm very happy with the perceived sound. ASIO is working with Foobar, Mediaportal and my H120 is outputting digital to it flawlessly as well.

 Mine does hum some and is audible at distance if there is no music playing. But otherwise, I'm hoping it can only get better. I also ran a set of Beyer DTX800 I use for gaming and I was pleased with the results, can't wait to get a decent set._

 


 If your Zero is humming, it's probably interference. Try moving it somewhere else and see if it gets better (or worse) and let us know. Word.


----------



## P_1

The transformer in mine hums as well, but I don't hear it in the actual output. Only if I am listening to the chasis I can hear/feel it.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Garret Jax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If your Zero is humming, it's probably interference. Try moving it somewhere else and see if it gets better (or worse) and let us know. Word._

 

Humming is definitely no good. Try to good ground. Check if the earth wire is properly connected on Every piece of equipment (source, dac, amp, etc).


----------



## wcp6

I emailed Lawrence earlier today, got a response, paid, and he shipped it within 4 hours with tracking number. We'll see when it arrives if its in good working order


----------



## katanka

I think lawrence does all his shipping on Saturdays


----------



## No Smoking

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *katanka* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think lawrence does all his shipping on Saturdays_

 

Yep, When I asked him when he would be shipping out his orders he responded with that all orders will be shipped out in his next batch of shipments on Sat.


----------



## Penchum

Just a reminder for new Zero owners and those who have ordered a Zero:

 While some folks do not believe in "burn-in", and others make a science out of it, I just wanted to remind everyone that "hundreds" of Zero owners have noticed a substantial SQ gain, after evaluating their Zeros with over 100 hours on them.

 With both of my Zeros, changes that caught my attention happened between the 50-75 hour range, and stopped changing around the 100 hour mark.

 I only mention this so that "Opamp rollers" will understand that Opamp rolling too soon, will give them mixed results and they will most likely have to do another round of rolling, all over again, after the 100 hour mark. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 LOOKING FOR A CHEAP AND WORTHWHILE TWEAK?

 Get a quality, thicker gage, better sheilded power cord for your Zero. There is a mini-review in my Sig, about a Volex power cord called the 17604. After my initial purchase of 4 of them, and testing them "real world" for a month, I bought enough of them to replace all the stock power cords on ALL of my HeadFi equipment. They are great and inexpensive. See the review for detailed information.


----------



## jhcasado

Finally..... my Zero is on way!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I contacted with Lawrence on Monday, he sent me the paypal invoice that I paid in the moment. 

 After that, I never was able to contact him, he didn't answer my emails...... until today, Saturday, that he sent me the tracking number 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I bought the headfi deal with the upgraded amps, when it arrives, I'll comment if they are there.


----------



## AudioPhewl

^Glad it looks like you're ending up with a good experience 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 I've still heard nothing from Lawrence, not for my email, nor the dispute. Paypal don't seem to be acting on it, so it looks like I'll have to instigate a chargeback on Monday via my bank.

 I think I've traced the fault back to the AD1852 DAC IC, and I've got a replacement sitting here, so possibly when the finances are all out of the way, if I end up with the faulty unit, I'll have an attempt at sorting it. It may(hopefully) be as simple as a dry solder joint. We'll see... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## ianp

Following on from the snippit mod I performed earlier in the week, I have been comparing the sound to a ZERO DAC with an HDAM fitted.

 All comparisons were done using an Onix SP3 amp (modified with bypass caps and some rolled tubes) into a set of well broken-in Quad 22L2 speakers. Having two Zero DACs and a DVD/CD player with both optical and coaxial outputs means it is easy for me to do comparisons. The optical feeds one DAC into the amp and the coaxial the other. I can then switch source on the amp with the flick of a switch.






 In a nutshell, the snippit mod sounds more clinical and the HDAM more musical. Both are very detailed in their presentation of sound. To my ears, the snippit has ever so slightly more detail, air and soundstage, but the HDAM has more a lot more body and warmth. The snippt can sound thin and anemic, even after pushing the volume up a tad.

 For me the HDAM wins hands down. I am looking at doing the lampizator mod, it will be interesting to see how that changes the soundscape.

 At the end of the day some people prefer a clinical presentation and others prefer a musical one. Choose wisely, young grasshopper.


----------



## AudioPhewl

One of your DACs has lost the headphone symbol. Has it been on a diet? Or is it ready for valve-lampization? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## ianp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One of your DACs has lost the headphone symbol. Has it been on a diet? Or is it ready for valve-lampization? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ~Phewl._

 

The older units didn't have the headphone graphic. But, yes the one with the headphone graphic is the one that is ready for tubing.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Ah... you learn something new every day 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Enthusia

Lawrence has shipped out my new volume pot! Woot woot!


----------



## taso89

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Enthusia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lawrence has shipped out my new volume pot! Woot woot!_

 

How much did he charge you for it? And is it an improvement over the stock volume pot?


----------



## AudioPhewl

I'm betting he's not received it yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## taso89

What I meant was is it SUPPOSED to be an improvement over the stock pot or did he just need a replacement


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *taso89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How much did he charge you for it? And is it an improvement over the stock volume pot?_

 

If he got more of the NOS ALPS pots with detents, the answer to the second part is "YES". Both channels are even and the whole thing is quiet.

 On a side note: I did both of my Zero's with the NOS ALPS pots, and the feel of the pot is very nice. They have the ball bearing type detents device, on the back of the pot. I put a micro drop of clock oil on mine (at the ball bearing) and it got even smoother to operate.


----------



## ianp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *taso89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What I meant was is it SUPPOSED to be an improvement over the stock pot or did he just need a replacement 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

FWIW The standard volume pot can best described as perfunctory. It does the job, but can be readily improved upon.


----------



## taso89

I'm not aware of the differences between one volume pot and another, but what I do notice on the stock volume pot is a good deal of snap crackle and pop when I move the knob from 9:00 to 12:00 back and forth. Is this something to be expected or do I need a new pot?


----------



## ianp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *taso89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not aware of the differences between one volume pot and another, but what I do notice on the stock volume pot is a good deal of snap crackle and pop when I move the knob from 9:00 to 12:00 back and forth. Is this something to be expected or do I need a new pot?_

 

That could be a symptom of a cheap pot or one that needs a good spraying with compressed air and/or contact cleaner. The pots are a pretty much a sealed unit, so spraying with anything is hit and miss. It may even worsen the situation.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *taso89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not aware of the differences between one volume pot and another, but what I do notice on the stock volume pot is a good deal of snap crackle and pop when I move the knob from 9:00 to 12:00 back and forth. Is this something to be expected or do I need a new pot?_

 

My first Zero, when new, had a snap, crackle and pop in the same area. I used Deoxit to clean it out, and this got rid of the noise, but not the imbalance at lower volumes. For that, I replaced them with Lawrence's NOS Alps pots.


----------



## Enthusia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *taso89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How much did he charge you for it? And is it an improvement over the stock volume pot?_

 

It was free of charge, Lawrence is a generous man!


----------



## Garret Jax

Noob question here: still burning in my Zero and loving it, but I would like to hear it next to a tube amp. I've never heard a tube amp before. Maybe I'll go to the local audiophile store and see if they have any. My question is basic: don't those tubes get to be like 500 degrees Fahrenheit or something crazy like that? Seems like a fire hazard if you have children or pets (or just get hammered while listening to your cans!). Am I misinformed?


----------



## ianp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Garret Jax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Noob question here: still burning in my Zero and loving it, but I would like to hear it next to a tube amp. I've never heard a tube amp before. Maybe I'll go to the local audiophile store and see if they have any. My question is basic: don't those tubes get to be like 500 degrees Fahrenheit or something crazy like that? Seems like a fire hazard if you have children or pets (or just get hammered while listening to your cans!). Am I misinformed?_

 

Yes, they get hot. You do not really want to touch them when they are on. It helps prolong their life as well as your family & pets. Some tube amps have some form of protection or cover for the tubes. 

 The amp that I have has a cover, but I have it physically located on a shelf well away from the kids. With the tube covers on it would look like the below. Those covers still get hot, so you still need to keep well away from kids, pets, etc.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *P_1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wanted to just add some more impressions from the Zero. With the lm4562 in the dac and amp it actually sounds better than the Little Dot MK V. I was holding off on testing the lm4562 since the lme49720 are supposed to be identical, but this turns out to be not true sonically. I suspect that the lme49720 are probably made on a cheaper process compared to the lm4562.

 And to comment on the Earth and Sun discrete opamps, how are they possibly better than some of the opamp chips out there with much lower distortion ratings?

 Anyway here are a few things I noticed with my w5000's:
 Originally with the opa627 in the DAC and the lme49720's in the amp section it sounded harsh, the highs would almost go too high. The sound stage was also just average.

 Then I tried the Zero with the MK V with the opa627 in the DAC and the MK V sounded smooth almost like it was rolling off the highs and I found there to be a little bit more bass in terms of quantity not really extension.

 Then I tried the Zero with the MK V with the lme49720 in the DAC and the bass got tighter and the highs were less rolled off and the sound stage was still mediocre.

 Now I returned the MK V, put the lm4562 in the dac and amp, and the bass goes lower and more controlled, sounds more dynamic, and sound stage is seemingly increased. I'll update my impressions once the chips get burned in more, but so far this is fantastic._

 

I just received my lm4562s in the mail. Some quick listening just replacing the 627's with one lm4562 - there isn't much in it between it and the LT1364's if they are left in the preamp. Putting in 3 lm4562s, I can't hear much of a difference between using my MKV and using the headphone/pre-amp of the Zero. If your ears are good, maybe it's your ICs you're hearing? I don't get any rolled-off highs, but I could have sworn I had a little siblance with the MKV. It suggests that the lm4562 overcomes the need for the MKV for that slightly wider sound stage, but I don't have my K701's to test that very well any longer.

 I think we're at the splitting hairs stage of things. If we were to talk about max value, I'd say a stock Zero + a set of 3 lm4562s, which you can get as a free sample = best bang for your buck. Considering how cheap they seem to be, it would be interesting if the next revision of stock Zero came out with them as default opamps.


----------



## Oya?

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Enthusia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It was free of charge, Lawrence is a generous man!_

 

Enthusia, did you order a stock pot or an ALPS pot from Lawrence?


----------



## P_1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just received my lm4562s in the mail. Some quick listening just replacing the 627's with one lm4562 - there isn't much in it between it and the LT1364's if they are left in the preamp. Putting in 3 lm4562s, I can't hear much of a difference between using my MKV and using the headphone/pre-amp of the Zero. If your ears are good, maybe it's your ICs you're hearing? I don't get any rolled-off highs, but I could have sworn I had a little siblance with the MKV. It suggests that the lm4562 overcomes the need for the MKV for that slightly wider sound stage, but I don't have my K701's to test that very well any longer.

 I think we're at the splitting hairs stage of things. If we were to talk about max value, I'd say a stock Zero + a set of 3 lm4562s, which you can get as a free sample = best bang for your buck. Considering how cheap they seem to be, it would be interesting if the next revision of stock Zero came out with them as default opamps._

 

Well when I had the MK V I wasn't using the preamp output to it(meaning the light on the preamp button wasn't on). I just used a direct line out from the DAC. The preamp is just too much for my headphones(w5000), there is almost no control on the volume at all if I use the preamp. But I am guessing the differences we hear on the high's are the differences between our headphones not the IC's. 
 On another note however, have you looked at the Shanling PH100? That amp looks really interesting.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *P_1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On another note however, have you looked at the Shanling PH100? That amp looks really interesting._

 

Hmm, this looks interesting, especially since the opamp upgrade has knocked out the need for my MKV.

 The LM4562's are really growing on me. Going back through all the music I'm bored with, it feels like there is just a bit extra detail, without being analytical and dry. Could be my mind playing tricks on me though, as it was hard to pick anything A/B'ing between them and the 1364s when I still had them in the pre-amp section.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm, this looks interesting, especially since the opamp upgrade has knocked out the need for my MKV.

 The LM4562's are really growing on me. Going back through all the music I'm bored with, it feels like there is just a bit extra detail, without being analytical and dry. Could be my mind playing tricks on me though, as it was hard to pick anything A/B'ing between them and the 1364s when I still had them in the pre-amp section._

 

That's really freaking me out! With my HD-650's, using the LM4562's in all three locations was extremely over-bright, to the point of a distortion like sound. I would get instant headaches from it. The LT1364 in the DAC, improved this somewhat, but the LM4562's in the head amp still made it too bright. If I used the DAC output to a tube amp, the LT1364 was wonderful in the DAC position, but got hot too quickly. (needs stick-on cooler)

 Last night, I took my un-modded Zero and put LM4562's in all three positions again. It was the same as I remember. Over-brightness in the extreme. This made me think about earlier on, when the LT1364 was discovered to have the same bottom end as the LM4562, but didn't have the over-brightness. We were searching for a DAC Opamp that would work "well" for both DAC output and also using the internal headphone amp. We wanted to use the LT1364 in the DAC, but the heat thing kept us from it. For overall musical quality and sound stage, the next best was the OPA627's by a long shot. Pairing them with the LT1364's in the headphone amp, turned out to be a great combo.

 I wonder if this whole LM4562 has to do with "type of music" and "headphones used", more than anything else?? Or maybe a dislike for the hint of BB sound the OPA627's produce? Thoughts??

 I just thought of something else that was noted. The LM4562's had a louder output, than the other choices had. I wonder how that factors in?


----------



## Enthusia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oya?* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Enthusia, did you order a stock pot or an ALPS pot from Lawrence? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I did not like the low volume unbalance with the stock pot and so I asked Lawrence for the ALPS pot. This is a rare case though, so don't go around asking for free pots.


----------



## Oya?

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Enthusia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did not like the low volume unbalance with the stock pot and so I asked Lawrence for the ALPS pot. This is a rare case though, so don't go around asking for free pots._

 

Thanks. I wanted to order an ALPS from him a while back but he was out of stock. If he's back in stock I'm going to shoot him an email.


----------



## andru

Is the channel imbalance a problem at normal listening levels, not super loud deafening levels? I ordered from Lawrence but he didn't have the ALPS pot in stock at the time so I got it without.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *andru* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the channel imbalance a problem at normal listening levels, not super loud deafening levels? I ordered from Lawrence but he didn't have the ALPS pot in stock at the time so I got it without._

 

It is at low volumes only, like when you first hear sound when you are turning the volume knob up slightly. It goes back into balance, just slightly above that.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's really freaking me out! With my HD-650's, using the LM4562's in all three locations was extremely over-bright, to the point of a distortion like sound. I would get instant headaches from it. The LT1364 in the DAC, improved this somewhat, but the LM4562's in the head amp still made it too bright. If I used the DAC output to a tube amp, the LT1364 was wonderful in the DAC position, but got hot too quickly. (needs stick-on cooler)

 Last night, I took my un-modded Zero and put LM4562's in all three positions again. It was the same as I remember. Over-brightness in the extreme. This made me think about earlier on, when the LT1364 was discovered to have the same bottom end as the LM4562, but didn't have the over-brightness. We were searching for a DAC Opamp that would work "well" for both DAC output and also using the internal headphone amp. We wanted to use the LT1364 in the DAC, but the heat thing kept us from it. For overall musical quality and sound stage, the next best was the OPA627's by a long shot. Pairing them with the LT1364's in the headphone amp, turned out to be a great combo.

 I wonder if this whole LM4562 has to do with "type of music" and "headphones used", more than anything else?? Or maybe a dislike for the hint of BB sound the OPA627's produce? Thoughts??

 I just thought of something else that was noted. The LM4562's had a louder output, than the other choices had. I wonder how that factors in?_

 

This makes me wonder if it's my cans, as with the low impedance Denons the sound is fantastic -- sneak up and slap you in the face good. I even have the mods balanced more against the base, which tends to make them bright. I don't have any high impedance phones to test with, only my crappy MB Quart QP55's, which sound crap anyway. I've been playing everything through them, so I'm not so sure it's a music issue. *Edit:* A very bright song came on just now, and with a lot going on in the upper ranges, I wonder if some ears wouldn't take this as being unpleasant.

 Unless there's something in the extreme top end going on that my ears just don't hear, what I'm getting much improved control and resulting detail that I wasn't getting before.

 By the way, for the heat, I have my MKV sitting on top of my Zero, with a 120mm case fan connected to USB spinning slowly next to them, slowly blowing away the heat.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This makes me wonder if it's my cans, as with the low impedance Denons the sound is fantastic -- sneak up and slap you in the face good. I even have the mods balanced more against the base, which tends to make them bright. I don't have any high impedance phones to test with, only my crappy MB Quart QP55's, which sound crap anyway. I've been playing everything through them, so I'm not so sure it's a music issue. *Edit:* A very bright song came on just now, and with a lot going on in the upper ranges, I wonder if some ears wouldn't take this as being unpleasant.

 Unless there's something in the extreme top end going on that my ears just don't hear, what I'm getting much improved control and resulting detail that I wasn't getting before.

 By the way, for the heat, I have my MKV sitting on top of my Zero, with a 120mm case fan connected to USB spinning slowly next to them, slowly blowing away the heat._

 

I think you are right about the cans. That would be an interesting test for someone who has access to both types. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Good idea on the fan too! It doesn't take much to help aluminum do it's thing.


----------



## ccschua

I am very surprised with the capability of ZERO. 

 Just tried the ZERO with push pull tube int amp Class AB1 using 4 6V6 tubes and the AAD speakers. Power cord Volex 17604 (made in China stuff)

 Man the acoustics, slam, plucking of guitar is so real and transparent. Currently running my ZERO with LT 1057.

 I have a system that is ready to receive as much detail and resolution from the source, ZERO.


----------



## ccschua

I have been looking for a pair of RCA socket to replace the existing one. On one occasion, I just pulled out the RCA external earth.

 How is Neutrik compared to WBT ? is it neutrik more value for money. Can the Neutrik or WBT be the exact replacement of stock ?


----------



## matrix200

Hey guys I am happy to report that my OPA627 and the usb-toslink adapter have arrived!
 I have installed the new OPAMP and I am VERY IMPRESSED 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Regarding the optical connection I haven't set it up yet.
 I will keep you updated in the coming days regarding my pop issue.
 Regardless of the optical thing , it has got very rare and I get it once per a few days at most and hopefully with the optical connection it will be gone for good.


----------



## ianp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have been looking for a pair of RCA socket to replace the existing one. On one occasion, I just pulled out the RCA external earth.

 How is Neutrik compared to WBT ? is it neutrik more value for money. Can the Neutrik or WBT be the exact replacement of stock ?_

 

IMHO there is no need to go overboard on the RCA jacks. Neutrik, WBT et al are all very good, but think about what percentage cost of the total cost of the DAC you could spend on a set of audiophile RCAs and does it make sense to do so. A decent set of RCA jacks/sockets need not set you back big bucks. A pair of Vampire CM-HEX will set you back around $10 and (again IMHO) they are more than sufficient for most needs. When I did the snippit mod I used a pair of gold-plated RCA Radioshack jacks that are $4 per pair.

 Exact replacement. As can be seen from the below image the stock RCAs are soldered directly on to the PCB. I wouldn't look at adding more surface-mounted RCAs, but rather at adding a pair of chassis mount RCAs and then diverting the signal.


----------



## bjorn

Hi! 
 I'm a long time lurker, but decided to "bite the bullit" and do a first post in this monster of a thread.

 I bought the standard Head-Fi modded Zero from Lawrence and have been enjoying it for a couple of days now. I also bought a Shanling PH100 headphone amp and they arrived more or less at the same time. They aren't really burned in yet and I'm not an experienced headphone tester but wanted to share a few thoughts anyway...

 I've played around with a couple of different combinations using my PC and the M-Audio Delta 2496 soundcard in it as source;

 1. Digital (coax) out from the M-Audio into the Zero and then line out to the shanling
 2. Analog out of the M-Audio into the Shanling
 3. Digital (coax) out from the M-Audio into the Zero and using the Zeros built in headphone amp.

 Not surprisingly the first one slaughters the other two. I guess it would be strange if didn't since it almost doubles the cost compared to the other ones. Anyway, that combination sounds great and really suits my AKG701 phones.

 The Zeros own headphone amp doesn't sound to convincing to my ears - a lot of sibbilants. Maybe the combination of almost no burn-in and AKG701 is a bit to much 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm very happy with the unit anyway and the DAC seems great!


----------



## matrix200

Hi bjorn,

 Well I am a newbie myself so its just my opinion which is probably wrong 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Anyway I must say that you really have to get OPA627 to fully appreciate the Zero.
 I just got the replacements and trust me Zero sounds WAY better with it then with its original 2604 which I now consider somewhat muddy.
 Also like you said yourself you have to give it some time to burn in.
 I have my unit for about 4 weeks and it still is not fully burnt in.
 I am not sure about AKG's since I am a Sennheiser fan for a very long time now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Anyway my Senns are also pretty hard to drive and this amp does it nicely (I do have to turn the volume to about 9:00 am position to fully appreciate it though).


----------



## bjorn

Hi matrix200!

 I DO have the ready modded Head-Fi version that Lawrence sells. So it's 627 in it!


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *matrix200* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyway I must say that you really have to get OPA627 to fully appreciate the Zero._

 

I disagree. Right now, I've got my old Zero DAC(which now belongs to my brother, and I'm very jealous...). Anyway... the OPA827 sounds absolutely stupidly awesome in it. It works so incredibly well... I can't compare A-B between the two, but I do have two CMOY amps - one wired for a dual, one for a pair of singles. Identical apart from that - the 827 trounces the 627. Imagine the 627, with it's wide soundstage... coupled to a slightly less "warm" sound, but with the top-end reach and atmosphere of a good AD opamp.

 It's stunning. I've had it in my CDP for a few weeks now, and can't praise it highly enough. I never gelled with the 627 before - it didn't sound clear enough to my ears.

 I've also done some tweaking inside the Zero. I've removed the 22pF caps from the RCA-out sockets. Also, after looking over the headphone amplifier section, I can confirm they are also present on there. 2 minutes with a soldering iron yields the same "clearer" sound given to the RCA out by removal of them.

 It's well worth doing. I also uprated the two capacitors at the front-middle of the board - they're the main power caps for the opamps, so something better will never hurt.





 I used Panasonic FM 16v/1000uF capacitors. They've certainly done no harm to anything. But removing the two capacitors next to the opamps yields the bigger improvement. The PSU caps likely haven't made a difference to the sound, but with current-hungry opamps, they'll certainly do no harm.

 Wish I'd taken a couple of pictures. Apologies for the poor quality, it's just lifted from the front page.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## matrix200

Sorry my mistake I saw the word "standard" and didn't read the sentence till the end 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 You probably are right saying that a combo dac/separate headphone amp is better then using Zero alone.
 In fact I was considering the LittleDot models until I got the the OPA627.
 Maybe it is the headphones after all and Zero is somehow not sufficient to drive them.
 Anyway I am glad you like the unit and the community of Zero lovers has just gotten bigger 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I myself don't have any regrets about the Zero as it seems to be a very good entrance point into audiophile headphone listening.
 I am pretty sure eventually I will have to get the additional gear , but for now it fully suits my needs


----------



## matrix200

AudioPhewl I didn't mean that 627 are absolutely the best in terms of SQ when it comes to Zero.
 I was saying that it is the very least you have to get for your Zero if you want a good SQ out of it (in my opinion).
 And regarding the warm sound of 627's , well I agree with you here that it is warm , but I must admit I like that kind of sound so no complaints from me here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Anyway if I made an impression that 627 is the ideal for the Zero I stand corrected and apologize for bad choice of words.
 And regarding other modifications you made to your Zero I will have to carefully read everything you said about them so I can see what can be done here by me since i am not exactly very confident with soldering


----------



## AudioPhewl

Sorry Matrix200, it wasn't anything personal towards you. Just that so many people seem to see the 627 as the peak of opamp progress, and this really isn't the case.

 If you like the 627, I'm betting you'd also like the 827. I found Linear Technology LT1028 to sound nicer than the 627, and did for several years, but I'm now preferring the 827.

 It's well worth trying to find some IMO 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 Happy listening! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## bjorn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *matrix200* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry my mistake I saw the word "standard" and didn't read the sentence till the end 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 You probably are right saying that a combo dac/separate headphone amp is better then using Zero alone.
 In fact I was considering the LittleDot models until I got the the OPA627.
 Maybe it is the headphones after all and Zero is somehow not sufficient to drive them.
 Anyway I am glad you like the unit and the community of Zero lovers has just gotten bigger 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I myself don't have any regrets about the Zero as it seems to be a very good entrance point into audiophile headphone listening.
 I am pretty sure eventually I will have to get the additional gear , but for now it fully suits my needs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

No problem - I shouldn't have used the word "standard". I'm very happy with the unit and I'm confident that the headphone amplifier part will be much better after burn-in. The Shanling costs about $70 more than the whole Zero unit so it's not surprising that it beats the built in amp.

 I realize that I probably should have waited with posting until after the burn-in but I got carried away 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The thing I wanted to share was really that the Zero, Shanling PH100 and AKG701 is a great combination.


----------



## P_1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's really freaking me out! With my HD-650's, using the LM4562's in all three locations was extremely over-bright, to the point of a distortion like sound. I would get instant headaches from it. The LT1364 in the DAC, improved this somewhat, but the LM4562's in the head amp still made it too bright. If I used the DAC output to a tube amp, the LT1364 was wonderful in the DAC position, but got hot too quickly. (needs stick-on cooler)

 Last night, I took my un-modded Zero and put LM4562's in all three positions again. It was the same as I remember. Over-brightness in the extreme. This made me think about earlier on, when the LT1364 was discovered to have the same bottom end as the LM4562, but didn't have the over-brightness. We were searching for a DAC Opamp that would work "well" for both DAC output and also using the internal headphone amp. We wanted to use the LT1364 in the DAC, but the heat thing kept us from it. For overall musical quality and sound stage, the next best was the OPA627's by a long shot. Pairing them with the LT1364's in the headphone amp, turned out to be a great combo.

 I wonder if this whole LM4562 has to do with "type of music" and "headphones used", more than anything else?? Or maybe a dislike for the hint of BB sound the OPA627's produce? Thoughts??

 I just thought of something else that was noted. The LM4562's had a louder output, than the other choices had. I wonder how that factors in?_

 

I felt the lme49720's in the headamp were overbright with the opa627's in the DAC. But with the lm4562's in all three, this wasn't the case. I think it has to do with what kind of headphones you have. From what I am hearing, it seems that the w5000's work well with a transparent source. I have not tried 3x lme49720s yet though.


----------



## richierich

Waiting for my LM4562s to arrive from Singapore. Can't wait!


----------



## taso89

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *richierich* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Waiting for my LM4562s to arrive from Singapore. Can't wait!_

 

Waiting here as well! I got a tracking number from USPS but waiting on any info with that. 

 Are you sure they ship all the way from Singapore? I was under the impression that one of their distributors from the US gets it to you, that's why you have to choose a distributor when ordering samples. Am I mistaken?


----------



## Enthusia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *taso89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Waiting here as well! I got a tracking number from USPS but waiting on any info with that. 

 Are you sure they ship all the way from Singapore? I was under the impression that one of their distributors from the US gets it to you, that's why you have to choose a distributor when ordering samples. Am I mistaken?_

 

Nope, mine came from Singapore also!


----------



## taso89

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Enthusia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nope, mine came from Singapore also!_

 

When did you order yours?


----------



## Garret Jax

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I disagree. Right now, I've got my old Zero DAC(which now belongs to my brother, and I'm very jealous...). Anyway... the OPA827 sounds absolutely stupidly awesome in it. It works so incredibly well... I can't compare A-B between the two, but I do have two CMOY amps - one wired for a dual, one for a pair of singles. Identical apart from that - the 827 trounces the 627. Imagine the 627, with it's wide soundstage... coupled to a slightly less "warm" sound, but with the top-end reach and atmosphere of a good AD opamp.

 It's stunning. I've had it in my CDP for a few weeks now, and can't praise it highly enough. I never gelled with the 627 before - it didn't sound clear enough to my ears.

 I've also done some tweaking inside the Zero. I've removed the 22pF caps from the RCA-out sockets. Also, after looking over the headphone amplifier section, I can confirm they are also present on there. 2 minutes with a soldering iron yields the same "clearer" sound given to the RCA out by removal of them.

 It's well worth doing. I also uprated the two capacitors at the front-middle of the board - they're the main power caps for the opamps, so something better will never hurt.





 I used Panasonic FM 16v/1000uF capacitors. They've certainly done no harm to anything. But removing the two capacitors next to the opamps yields the bigger improvement. The PSU caps likely haven't made a difference to the sound, but with current-hungry opamps, they'll certainly do no harm.

 Wish I'd taken a couple of pictures. Apologies for the poor quality, it's just lifted from the front page.

 ~Phewl._

 

Maybe I am misunderstanding you. If removing the capacitors improves the sound, why would a manufacturer spend the extra time and money to put them there in the first place? And should I remove them from my Zero DAC?


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Garret Jax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe I am misunderstanding you. If removing the capacitors improves the sound, why would a manufacturer spend the extra time and money to put them there in the first place? And should I remove them from my Zero DAC?_

 

The manufacturer also saw fit to put NE5532 and OPA2604 opamps in there. Why would the manufacturer spend the time and money to put them in there, when it has been reported that bypassing that section completely improves the sound, or that alternatives yield a far better sound? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Those capacitors are there to catch any unwanted high-frequency noise - typically hiss. Unfortunately, they also seem to place a stranglehold on the upper-range of the audible spectrum.

 Removal of them differs from coupling capacitors, which are there to filter any DC voltage output and prevent it from being amplified.

 Removal of these capacitors does not yield a noticeable increase in hiss - to my ears, with my 600ohm headphones, there is no audible hiss at any volume. But it does "breathe" a little air on the higher-frequency, leading to a better portrayal of atmosphere and realism.

This page details the concept and implementation in more detail than I could.






 ~Phewl.


----------



## viscosity

ALPS and HDAM is out of stock for lawrence. m

 ordered mine without. should sound great with akgk701


----------



## AudioPhewl

Welcome to the madhouse, viscosity 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## boomana

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Garret Jax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe I am misunderstanding you. If removing the capacitors improves the sound, why would a manufacturer spend the extra time and money to put them there in the first place? And should I remove them from my Zero DAC?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The manufacturer also saw fit to put NE5532 and OPA2604 opamps in there. Why would the manufacturer spend the time and money to put them in there, when it has been reported that bypassing that section completely improves the sound, or that alternatives yield a far better sound? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Poor design? Seriously, guys. Glad you're happy, and this seems like a tweaker's dream amp/dac, but if what you're all saying is true, this has to be one of the more poorly designed products out there. It makes no sense.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Do you think more expensive products are immune from the same concepts and implementations, boomana?

 ~Phewl.


----------



## S.O.P

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Humming is definitely no good. Try to good ground. Check if the earth wire is properly connected on Every piece of equipment (source, dac, amp, etc)._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *P_1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The transformer in mine hums as well, but I don't hear it in the actual output. Only if I am listening to the chasis I can hear/feel it._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Garret Jax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If your Zero is humming, it's probably interference. Try moving it somewhere else and see if it gets better (or worse) and let us know. Word._

 

As P_1 says, it's coming from the Zero, not in actual musical output. I cannot hear it if there is any music playing as it's not that loud.

 That said, I'm using a reasonably poor adapter to adapt the power to the Australian plug, it's loose and can be bumped out.


----------



## Currawong

I don't think the Zero is poorly designed, but seems to designed to be as reasonably good all round as can be had for the price. I think some of the tweaks will only work for some people, depending on what cans they have.

 For most people reading this thread, the "head-fi special" version with upgraded opamps, if they have a computer with digital output, will make for a huge improvement in their head-fi experience.


----------



## boomana

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you think more expensive products are immune from the same concepts and implementations, boomana?

 ~Phewl._

 

Nope. Poor design can be had at any price tag.

 EDIT: btw, I don't know enough about amp design to make any claims one way or another, but reading the comments this thread have me questioning: Why would capacitors the designer put in decrease sq? Why would sq improve if an op amp section were completely bypassed? How could the design be considered good if those not insignificant factors are present?


----------



## ciphercomplete

I have been thoroughly enjoying this DAC for about a month now. My only beef with it so far is that when my otherwise quiet Little Dot is plugged into has audible hiss with low to mid impedance cans. The hiss is really only audible at levels I would never listen to.

 However, in preamp mode, the hiss becomes unbearable. This really doesn't bother me either since I never use the thing as a preamp. 

 I am guessing that this has to do with the RCA outputs right? When I use the Zero amp section with the same low-mid impedance headphones there is noticeably less audible hiss at high levels.

 Otherwise this is a very competent piece of equipment for the price.


----------



## Enthusia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomana* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nope. Poor design can be had at any price tag.

 EDIT: btw, I don't know enough about amp design to make any claims one way or another, but reading the comments this thread have me questioning: Why would capacitors the designer put in decrease sq? Why would sq improve if an op amp section were completely bypassed? How could the design be considered good if those not insignificant factors are present?_

 

Well the capacitors like those found in the zero are designed to reduce unwanted interferences, but then again it could take away some of the sound quality when doing this. These capacitors are not only found in the zero, but many other dac's such as cd players and etc. Opamps are not necessary, they add flavor and color to the sound, by removing them you get the pure natural sound, it could sound boring and dull, but some people like it like that.


----------



## Enthusia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have been thoroughly enjoying this DAC for about a month now. My only beef with it so far is that when my otherwise quiet Little Dot is plugged into has audible hiss with low to mid impedance cans. The hiss is really only audible at levels I would never listen to.

 However, in preamp mode, the hiss becomes unbearable. This really doesn't bother me either since I never use the thing as a preamp. 

 I am guessing that this has to do with the RCA outputs right? When I use the Zero amp section with the same low-mid impedance headphones there is noticeably less audible hiss at high levels.

 Otherwise this is a very competent piece of equipment for the price._

 

Some little dot's have the humming problem because there is a ground loop issue. Just buy a ground loop isolator and that should correct any annoying sounds.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomana* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Poor design? Seriously, guys. Glad you're happy, and this seems like a tweaker's dream amp/dac, but if what you're all saying is true, this has to be one of the more poorly designed products out there. It makes no sense._

 

Boomana! Welcome! How's the weather over there?

 The Zero is fine little DAC/Amp. It is not poorly designed. We have users that span the full gambit of possible users, and they are more than satisfied with their Zeros. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What you are seeing is differences of opinion. That's all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm sure it wouldn't be hard for you to pick apart any one of those opinions, but I would ask you nicely not too. Everyone in this thread encourages opinions, even if they are looking rather fringe. Many here haven't figured out yet that just because you "can" do a thing, doesn't mean you "should" do a thing. That will come along later.

 Have a good one!


----------



## katanka

I wonder if somebody will mod the ZERO like Ori does for the Zhaolu. It would be nice to try and improve on a really good little product. Because of this little ZERO DAC, i have found myself wondering how other DACs would sound at a higher price point. I for one have be itching to try out the KECES 131, but at the same time i wonder if the ZERO itself can be improved upon just like the Zhaolu was.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *katanka* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wonder if somebody will mod the ZERO like Ori does for the Zhaolu. It would be nice to try and improve on a really good little product. Because of this little ZERO DAC, i have found myself wondering how other DACs would sound at a higher price point. I for one have be itching to try out the KECES 131, but at the same time i wonder if the ZERO itself can be improved upon just like the Zhaolu was._

 

Pricklely Peete and I are doing *extensive* simultaneous Zero mods. First, was the power supply section, second was the analog section and third is the internal headphone amp and HDAM.

 Our goal, is to modify, test and verify each section's performance improvement and document it all, so others can give it a try if they want. We are verifying everything with SS headphone amps, tube headphone amps and two independent Hi-end speaker systems. In addition, we are going to compare a stock Zero with "HeadFi Deal" Opamps on board, to the totally modified Zero.

 PP finished his mods just before he went on vacation, and I'm waiting for a few parts to complete mine. When he returns, the final evaluations will take place and the comparison to the HeadFi Deal Zero will get completed, then it's a matter of working the documentation and presenting our review and recommendations. We've been at this for a month already. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wish I could give you a time line, but there are too many variables right now. Maybe a couple of weeks? It is possible I think.


----------



## katanka

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pricklely Peete and I are doing *extensive* simultaneous Zero mods. First, was the power supply section, second was the analog section and third is the internal headphone amp and HDAM.

 Our goal, is to modify, test and verify each section's performance improvement and document it all, so others can give it a try if they want. We are verifying everything with SS headphone amps, tube headphone amps and two independent Hi-end speaker systems. In addition, we are going to compare a stock Zero with "HeadFi Deal" Opamps on board, to the totally modified Zero.

 PP finished his mods just before he went on vacation, and I'm waiting for a few parts to complete mine. When he returns, the final evaluations will take place and the comparison to the HeadFi Deal Zero will get completed, then it's a matter of working the documentation and presenting our review and recommendations. We've been at this for a month already. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wish I could give you a time line, but there are too many variables right now. Maybe a couple of weeks? It is possible I think. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well i had you and PP in mind as well as Ianp and Audiophewl as you guys seem to know your electronics pretty well. Perhaps if you all put your heads together you could come up with the ultimate ZERO at lowish cost.


----------



## Meliboeus

guys i got my zero today, super fast shipping, just about a working week from HK, now i'm testing it with my computer, using the optical cable included, sound quality is really good, not much an improvement with the ms1, i have an audiotrak prodigy which has already a good dac and amplified headphone out...now i'll try the dt990 which are not very well driven by the prodigy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 p.s. stupid question, is it ok to put a cd player on top of the zero ? or will it get too hot ?


----------



## boomana

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Boomana! Welcome! How's the weather over there?

 The Zero is fine little DAC/Amp. It is not poorly designed. We have users that span the full gambit of possible users, and they are more than satisfied with their Zeros. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What you are seeing is differences of opinion. That's all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm sure it wouldn't be hard for you to pick apart any one of those opinions, but I would ask you nicely not too. Everyone in this thread encourages opinions, even if they are looking rather fringe. Many here haven't figured out yet that just because you "can" do a thing, doesn't mean you "should" do a thing. That will come along later.

 Have a good one! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hi, Penchum, weather's fine, a little stormy, but that's Fl in the summer.

 Thanks for the welcome, but I've actually been here the whole time, and only dropped in to post after lurking for months because the last few pages have really confused me.

 I see what you mean when you say I'm seeing differences of opinion. That's fine, but I respectfully think it's time to question either the original design or some choices modders are making, for if I'm reading correctly, there's either a problem in the design, as evidenced by reported sq benefits after simply removing capicitors and/or bypassing an opamp section, or modders are making some potentially erroneous judgments by doing so. Either way, it might be time to look more carefully at what's been or is being done, so others can follow or not. Also, I'm open to thinking that the wording of the posts may have led to my confusion, so perhaps clarification need only happen there. 

 Please note that three of my sources have been modded, two heavily so, my main amp has gone through three incarnations of after-purchase tweaks, and I've owned other amps and headphones that have also had significant mods. I'm a big believer in improving upon stock products if possible, and I don't think the ability to do so necessarily points to design flaws, but sometimes it does. I've experienced both with my own gear, and believe it's best to know either way, so the right choices can be made. Maybe folks can help me understand what's going on here with the Zero amp/dac.

 Carry on.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Meliboeus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_guys i got my zero today, super fast shipping, just about a working week from HK, now i'm testing it with my computer, using the optical cable included, sound quality is really good, not much an improvement with the ms1, i have an audiotrak prodigy which has already a good dac and amplified headphone out...now i'll try the dt990 which are not very well driven by the prodigy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 p.s. stupid question, is it ok to put a cd player on top of the zero ? or will it get too hot ?_

 

Hey Mel,

 Don't forget the Zero is going to need about 100 hours before it's burned in properly. The SQ will change a good bit by then. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have my MKIII sitting on top of my Zero right now, with no ill effects, so I think you'll be ok stacking.


----------



## Enthusia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lady* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm sad to inform you that you have just acquired the status of undesired guest in this thread.

 I agree with you, by the way. I don't understand why people go on blindly buying this so-so little DAC and contemporarily ignoring the valuable alternatives of quite similar price available. PM me for more info, if you like._

 

I don't think Boomana is a undesired guest, he is just looking for more information. He might be thinking of buying the dac/amp. There is no harm in asking a few questions to clear ones mind.

 First post and it is a negative one, can anybody call "Andrea?" Just made a new account and want some more of the action? What are the valuable alternatives? This Dac/Amp combo is amazing at the price its being sold at, give me some real information, none of this private messaging crap. If you can't defend your position, I am going to have to call you a troll.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pricklely Peete and I are doing *extensive* simultaneous Zero mods. First, was the power supply section, second was the analog section and third is the internal headphone amp and HDAM.

 Our goal, is to modify, test and verify each section's performance improvement and document it all, so others can give it a try if they want. We are verifying everything with SS headphone amps, tube headphone amps and two independent Hi-end speaker systems. In addition, we are going to compare a stock Zero with "HeadFi Deal" Opamps on board, to the totally modified Zero.

 PP finished his mods just before he went on vacation, and I'm waiting for a few parts to complete mine. When he returns, the final evaluations will take place and the comparison to the HeadFi Deal Zero will get completed, then it's a matter of working the documentation and presenting our review and recommendations. We've been at this for a month already. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wish I could give you a time line, but there are too many variables right now. Maybe a couple of weeks? It is possible I think. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Sounds like a great project
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Please consider creating a new thread for it though (something like "Zero mods"), or all the hard work will be lost in a few days.


----------



## alxwang

I got my zero too. Very happy with it.
 I did the OPA672 mod already and it is easy.
 How about LM4562 mod? Same as OPA672? Just pull out old one and put new one in? WHere I can get them?
 THanks.


----------



## alxwang

Where I can get it?
 Does the process need solder?
 Thanks.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lady* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would suggest that you get two LT1128 and a dual DIP socketed Browndog; 'cause I like the LT1128 (and LT1028, when stable) much better than the LME49710 (a half LM4562). The LME has kind of a synthetical sound to it that makes it rather unique sounding._


----------



## Hales

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pricklely Peete and I are doing *extensive* simultaneous Zero mods. First, was the power supply section, second was the analog section and third is the internal headphone amp and HDAM._

 

Do the power supply mods include getting a separate and noise free 3.3v to the VA input on the CS8416? Any noise on this input will increase jitter. Having the VA connected in parallel with any other chip - even the VD 3.3v input on the CS8416 itself will increase jitter. 

 I *think* the VA (pin 6) on the Zero is connected in parallel to the VD (Pin 23) on CS8416. This could be increasing jitter - especially when the CS8416 is recovering and reclocking the data through the RMCK.

 If no one has done any more than what is done in the lampizator mod, then I think there is a lot of room for improvement on the digital side of things. This would help you make sure that you don't have garbage coming in, which keeps garbage from coming out.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomana* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, Penchum, weather's fine, a little stormy, but that's Fl in the summer.

 Thanks for the welcome, but I've actually been here the whole time, and only dropped in to post after lurking for months because the last few pages have really confused me.

 I see what you mean when you say I'm seeing differences of opinion. That's fine, but I respectfully think it's time to question either the original design or some choices modders are making, for if I'm reading correctly, there's either a problem in the design, as evidenced by reported sq benefits after simply removing capicitors and/or bypassing an opamp section, or modders are making some potentially erroneous judgments by doing so. Either way, it might be time to look more carefully at what's been or is being done, so others can follow or not. Also, I'm open to thinking that the wording of the posts may have led to my confusion, so perhaps clarification need only happen there. 

 Please note that three of my sources have been modded, two heavily so, my main amp has gone through three incarnations of after-purchase tweaks, and I've owned other amps and headphones that have also had significant mods. I'm a big believer in improving upon stock products if possible, and I don't think the ability to do so necessarily points to design flaws, but sometimes it does. I've experienced both with my own gear, and believe it's best to know either way, so the right choices can be made. Maybe folks can help me understand what's going on here with the Zero amp/dac.

 Carry on._

 

You are welcome and I'm glad to see you posting here and not just lurking. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I want everyone to know, I'm not pointing fingers here. This is all about genuine concern for every user and their Zero:

 Lately, I've been concerned that the "instant gratification" types are out looking for a "magic wand" mod. Rip this out, lift that and solder that, and it will be just like a high end DAC. I think it is "fringe" at a minimum and "dangerous" at a maximum. Nothing in life works that way. All parts are there for a purpose, even if your experience can't tell what that purpose is, without proper testing.

 I have an example too. Pricklely Peete sent me an email just before leaving on vacation. He saw the "remove the caps" mod and did it. After one day with it, he's ready to put the caps back in. He explained that the gain in treble response isn't worth the popping sound when the relay engages the source signal. After reading this, I dismissed that mod immediately. The caps obviously serve as a buffer, so they have a real reason to be there. If a "pop" took out one of the elements in your headphones, you would be kicking yourself for removing the caps.

 That "tube" modified Zero is another oddity that has signs of wishful thinking. I just can't imagine sacrificing so much, for so little gain, but that's just me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I do know several users who are waiting on their HDAMs like expectant fathers. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The HDAM represents a decent upgrade vs Opamps for sure. It is a proven upgrade that has obtainable results. No magic or wishful thinking involved.

 So, where does this leave us? Well, I think some have been too quick on posting mods from other sources, that have yet to be evaluated or proven. While I applaud the enthusiasm, the responsibility leaves something to be desired. Just remember that if you post it, you own it. Other users will be following your lead, and failures will come back and sit in your lap like the ugly blind date you wish you hadn't gone on.

 Ok, I've said enough. I'm tired and hurting, so please don't beat up on me too hard today.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sounds like a great project
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Please consider creating a new thread for it though (something like "Zero mods"), or all the hard work will be lost in a few days._

 

You bet! That is already part of the "plan". Maybe that new thread will become the mod thread for the Zero, who knows.


----------



## Meliboeus

another stupid question is there something wrong connecting computer speakers to the zero or any other hp amp ? It should not be a problem, those speakers have an internal amplifier and should behave just like headphones , and probably low impedance onw since are designed to be connected to any soundcard...


----------



## Enthusia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Meliboeus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_another stupid question is there something wrong connecting computer speakers to the zero or any other hp amp ? It should not be a problem, those speakers have an internal amplifier and should behave just like headphones , and probably low impedance onw since are designed to be connected to any soundcard..._

 

This shouldn't be a problem, I use my logitech z-2300's connected to the Zero's headphone amp all the time. Just make sure you turn on the Zero Dac, then plug in your speakers and then turn your speakers on.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomana* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nope. Poor design can be had at any price tag.

 EDIT: btw, I don't know enough about amp design to make any claims one way or another, but reading the comments this thread have me questioning: Why would capacitors the designer put in decrease sq?_

 

The capacitors I refer to are there to help absorb noise from the higher frequencies. Unfortunately, they don't work from a fixed threshold; they absorb any noise as well as rolling off the upper audible frequencies somewhat. It isn't a huge improvement in sound quality from removing them, but it is there. We're not talking about a massive improvement in sound quality, but the difference is noticeable, particularly on female vocals. If changing an opamp yields a 10% difference in sound quality, then removing these caps is down at 1-2%.

 Contrary to what Penchum posted about Peete's experiences, I've not found any noise resulting from removal of the capacitors. But as I said previously in this thread, I do have high-impedance headphones, which may be masking the noise.

  Quote:


 Why would sq improve if an op amp section were completely bypassed? How could the design be considered good if those not insignificant factors are present? 
 

In an ideal world, output from the DAC would feed the audio output sockets directly. We'd all enjoy the pure and unmolested sound, without any need for capacitors, resistors, or opamps. But this being the real world, most audio equipment is not so pure. Resistors, capacitors, and opamps are all used to convert current output from the DAC to a higher voltage, to sit in the same ballpark as the rest of the industry. It is easily argued that such a process can - and often will - influence and change the sound generated, hence the often-done opamp-rolling. It has been found, by many people I should add, that changingthe opamp can change the sonic qualities of a device. The character of the sound changes.

 Removal of the opamp stage could be seen as a good thing by some. No opamp means no colouration, and whilst it'll not be a "line-level" output, it could mean a noticeable increase in sound quality. Personally... I'm not convinced on that count. I tend to think that the listener will only get half of the picture by using the positive output, and that for it to really work, one would have to be using to both the +ve and -ve outputs, rather than just +ve and ground.

 As for the design... I'd not say it was a particularly bad design. A lot of people think it sounds pretty darned good, and offers a lot of value given the low cost of the unit. But that doesn't mean it is perfect, nor does it mean that the basic design cannot be improved upon. Most devices are built to a price point, and can yield improvements in sound quality from changing a few choice capacitors. Google for "Marantz CD63 mods" - this was a fine piece of kit when it was released. It was applauded by every publication going, not just for it's performance but it's price as well. But it was still vastly improved upon, by many people.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## J W

Well, in case this hasn't already been addressed, I'd like to go ahead and say how much I truly hate head-fi. 

 I'm gone for 2 years, living well (enjoying having money), then one day I decide to drop by and see about a new pair of cans to use with my PC.

 Oh boy. It's a slippery slope, alright. Right to the poor house I slide.

 *Anxiously awaits his newly ordered Zero!*


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_"But as I said previously in this thread, I do have high-impedance headphones, which may be masking the noise".

 ~Phewl._

 

AP,

 I was thinking about those 600 ohm headphones the other night. I almost bought those a few years back. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It is very possible that they give you a completely different perspective, than other headphones with half or less the impedance might. It sure would account for the differences in opinion between Opamp models, and maybe other things as well. I have no experience with them, so I can't say for sure.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *J W* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, in case this hasn't already been addressed, I'd like to go ahead and say how much I truly hate head-fi. 

 I'm gone for 2 years, living well (enjoying having money), then one day I decide to drop by and see about a new pair of cans to use with my PC.

 Oh boy. It's a slippery slope, alright. Right to the poor house I slide.

 *Anxiously awaits his newly ordered Zero!*_

 

Well, welcome back J W! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Your wallet already knows "what's up".


----------



## DigiPhx

wow.... It's really detail Review, 
 Thanks for your sharing~


----------



## AudioPhewl

I really like them, Penchum. There's something infinitely natural about them. I'm sitting here with the cash in my account waiting for a set of Denon AH-D5000s... but I keep holding off on them. These old 480s just have something "right" about them.

 I've always compared them with my experience of loudspeakers - I've a huge soft-spot for studio monitors, because they just sound "right". I know there are more musical speakers out there, but with the solidness they portray natural sounds - vocals, acoustics, even birds... they're hard to argue with.

 There are mixed reviews on the web about them. I know they're old-hat, but I'm struggling to find the motivation to try and upgrade from them. There comes a certain point where upgrading is impossible - you merely step sidewards, to a different flavour. It's like comparing a Ferarri to a Lamborghini - neither is better, neither is worse. But in the right circumstances, one will outshine the other. The next day, with slightly different circumstances, the opposite will hold true.

 They're like an old friend now. I'm so used to them, anything else will sound wrong to start with 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. The HD6x0 models are more comfortable, these put pressure over the whole ear whereas modern headphones tend to skim around the edges more. That's my only complaint - after a few hours of listening, I find one ear starts to crackle, and needs a little stretch to wake it back up properly.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Papa Zed

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *J W* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, in case this hasn't already been addressed, I'd like to go ahead and say how much I truly hate head-fi. 

 I'm gone for 2 years, living well (enjoying having money), then one day I decide to drop by and see about a new pair of cans to use with my PC.

 Oh boy. It's a slippery slope, alright. Right to the poor house I slide.

 *Anxiously awaits his newly ordered Zero!*_

 

J.W. I can relate... Exact same story here except I'm one week ahead of you, received my zero yesterday. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I should have erased that bookmark.


----------



## azncookiecutter

Haven't heard anything from Lawrence in about a week, so I'm most likely going to get it from a different seller. Most likely going to get it from wsz0304, since people seem to have good experiences with him. Good thing with wsz0304 is that he includes the OPA627 opamp. The other opamp and all the recommended opamps can be easily acquired, so I'm not too concerned not getting the other opamp.


----------



## AudioPhewl

I've had 2 good experiences with this lady. Doubt she'll do the opamp upgrades though, I don't think she's particularly technical 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## wcp6

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *azncookiecutter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Haven't heard anything from Lawrence in about a week, so I'm most likely going to get it from a different seller. Most likely going to get it from wsz0304, since people seem to have good experiences with him. Good thing with wsz0304 is that he includes the OPA627 opamp. The other opamp and all the recommended opamps can be easily acquired, so I'm not too concerned not getting the other opamp._

 

Lawrence took care of me and shipped my order the same day that I contacted him
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Good luck with whatever you order from however


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wcp6* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lawrence took care of me and shipped my order the same day that I contacted him
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Good luck with whatever you order from however
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I think it has been pretty well established that he tends to ship on Saturdays. I got my tracking info on a saturday, as have many here. If he somehow misses yours just try to keep emailing... there have been far more good experiences than bad (although there have been a few bad 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## ciphercomplete

I'm interested in the power supply mod. Are we talking about the transformer or something else?


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lately, I've been concerned that the "instant gratification" types are out looking for a "magic wand" mod. Rip this out, lift that and solder that, and it will be just like a high end DAC. I think it is "fringe" at a minimum and "dangerous" at a maximum. Nothing in life works that way. All parts are there for a purpose, even if your experience can't tell what that purpose is, without proper testing._

 

I reckon. It's fun if you like playing around with this stuff to learn about electronics. Tinkering can be part of the fun.

 Personally I'm probably just going to give in and get a Lavry DA10 and use my Zero with my XBox.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I really like them, Penchum. There's something infinitely natural about them. I'm sitting here with the cash in my account waiting for a set of Denon AH-D5000s... but I keep holding off on them. These old 480s just have something "right" about them.

 I've always compared them with my experience of loudspeakers - I've a huge soft-spot for studio monitors, because they just sound "right". I know there are more musical speakers out there, but with the solidness they portray natural sounds - vocals, acoustics, even birds... they're hard to argue with.

 There are mixed reviews on the web about them. I know they're old-hat, but I'm struggling to find the motivation to try and upgrade from them. There comes a certain point where upgrading is impossible - you merely step sidewards, to a different flavour. It's like comparing a Ferarri to a Lamborghini - neither is better, neither is worse. But in the right circumstances, one will outshine the other. The next day, with slightly different circumstances, the opposite will hold true.

 They're like an old friend now. I'm so used to them, anything else will sound wrong to start with 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. The HD6x0 models are more comfortable, these put pressure over the whole ear whereas modern headphones tend to skim around the edges more. That's my only complaint - after a few hours of listening, I find one ear starts to crackle, and needs a little stretch to wake it back up properly.

 ~Phewl._

 

I can sure identify with the "old friend" syndrome, 3/4 of the equipment in this room with me, is from 1978 (ish). After I completed restoration work on most of it, I played Ted Nugent's first album with "Stranglehold" on it. I was immediately blow away by the exact same sound I remembered from back then. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Not too many systems can sound as good as analog done properly. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you did entertain the idea of a second set of headphones, I think the HD-650's would be the easiest to get accustomed to. You would then have an old friend and a new friend. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm pretty sure you'd find time to listen to both. When I added my HD-600's, I was worried I might not use them. I always seem to find time to listen to them, mostly because they are special in their own way.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm interested in the power supply mod. Are we talking about the transformer or something else?_

 

If you were referring to my post, it was about the power supply section of the main board. News on all that will be coming soon. My last parts came today, so I'm about to get started.


----------



## Hales

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you were referring to my post, it was about the power supply section of the main board. News on all that will be coming soon. My last parts came today, so I'm about to get started. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Awesome - power supply mods are what I am waiting for!

 Penchum, thanks again for the review back in November! Been listening for a week now (since burn in) and I am truly thankful to you for finding this little piece of hi fi gear heaven.


----------



## Garret Jax

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you were referring to my post, it was about the power supply section of the main board. News on all that will be coming soon. My last parts came today, so I'm about to get started. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I look forward to reading about your exploits. I'd like to try a mod or two in the future, but I want to see what gives the most bang for the buck.


----------



## Enthusia

Just replaced the 4 capacitors on my Zero with some Sanyo OS-Cons 6.8v 480uf. Not sure if I can hear a difference. I also replaced the power cord with a hospital grade one. It does sound clearer though, the capacitors do have to be burned in too.


----------



## taso89

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Enthusia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just replaced the 4 capacitors on my Zero with some Sanyo OS-Cons 6.8v 480uf. Not sure if I can hear a difference. I also replaced the power cord with a hospital grade one. It does sound clearer though, the capacitors do have to be burned in too._

 

Did you get the gray hospital grade cable from the FS forum? If so, I've got the same one and haven't noticed a difference; though I believe when I turn the volume up very high there is less hiss in the signal.


----------



## Enthusia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *taso89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you get the gray hospital grade cable from the FS forum? If so, I've got the same one and haven't noticed a difference; though I believe when I turn the volume up very high there is less hiss in the signal._

 

Nope, my hospital grade cable resembles the Jellyfish one, it has the clear connectors.


----------



## inspecality

I just bought this bad boy, hopefully it will pair well with my DT770s and MS-1s. Anybody have an experience with either of those? Hundreds of pages to go through so I don't know yet. I also plan to get a pair of K701s.


----------



## indianbraker

people do some intense upgrades to the zero dac it amazes me....i wonder how much of a difference quality capacitors make compared the the "stock" ones


----------



## matrix200

Hey guys , I have a question which I hope is not completely offtopic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Is there anyway to make the leds to be less bright?
 This light is driving me crazy since my gear is located in my bedroom.
 I don't feel like putting a tape on them since it will make the front ugly so is there any electric solution to that?


----------



## Kasp3r

I've skimmed through this thread, and I saw various sellers posted. Which in your guys own opinion is the best? I know there are various differences between some generation of zero dac's?


----------



## matrix200

Hi Kasp3r,

 Well I think the general agreement here is that Lawrence has the most modded version of Zero.
 I myself bought from wsz0304 and I am fully satisfied with my communication and purchase.
 Sure he made a mistake in the beginning sending me the OPA2604 instead of OPA627 , but he admitted his mistake and sent me the right chip right away.


----------



## katanka

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *matrix200* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys , I have a question which I hope is not completely offtopic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Is there anyway to make the leds to be less bright?
 This light is driving me crazy since my gear is located in my bedroom.
 I don't feel like putting a tape on them since it will make the front ugly so is there any electric solution to that?_

 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev.../index140.html

 there we go


----------



## Garret Jax

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *katanka* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev.../index140.html

 there we go_

 

Can you link to the actual post? Depending on screen resolution and forum settings, we don't all share the same number of posts per page - the link you provided lists a set of posts that don't address the LED brightness issue. Thanks Katanka!


----------



## katanka

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Garret Jax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can you link to the actual post? Depending on screen resolution and forum settings, we don't all share the same number of posts per page - the link you provided lists a set of posts that don't address the LED brightness issue. Thanks Katanka!_

 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/3738991-post1394.html


----------



## Kasp3r

Can the zero do optical to optical using the DAC and AMP at the same time?


----------



## wcp6

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kasp3r* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can the zero do optical to optical using the DAC and AMP at the same time?_

 

What? If it's going optical to optical, then its digital to digital signal and not being converted to analog, thus no DAC. I'm not certain what you mean, I don't think it even has an optical out? Getting mine in the mail soon.


----------



## Currawong

Kasp3r: What exactly do you mean?


----------



## Kasp3r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wcp6* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What? If it's going optical to optical, then its digital to digital signal and not being converted to analog, thus no DAC. I'm not certain what you mean, I don't think it even has an optical out? Getting mine in the mail soon._

 

Sorry Im not sure what i mean either 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have a SACD/CD player that has only rca and a optical port. My headphones are senn 580. The reason why im interested in buying the zero dac is because it would be nice to have a amp to power my headphones while being able to listening to music through the same box. However i will want to upgrade to a tube amp later on.

 I thought that i heard i won't be able to play sacd or something with the zero.


----------



## BigTony

I would assume your optical out from the sacd will be PCM, should be fine in an off-board DAC, not as good as DSD, but i do the same!

 BT


----------



## katanka

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kasp3r* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry Im not sure what i mean either 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have a SACD/CD player that has only rca and a optical port. My headphones are senn 580. The reason why im interested in buying the zero dac is because it would be nice to have a amp to power my headphones while being able to listening to music through the same box. However i will want to upgrade to a tube amp later on.

 I thought that i heard i won't be able to play sacd or something with the zero._

 

Well, from what i can gather here. You can connect your cd/sacd player to the zero via the cd/sacd players optical out to the optical in on the zero. you will be able to hear what ever sound you play from the cd/sacd from the headamp section of the zero, with you phones plugged into it. you will also be able to output to a separte amp from the zeros analogue out.


----------



## gavszero

Hey there fellow Zero owners. I'd like to introduce myself , my name is Gavin and reside in Brisbane Queensland Australia . I was introduced to the Zero by a friend and I was intreged with the potential it had with opamp rolling . I'm probably one of the rare one's that burned in the zero for 120 hours before doing any critical testing . I followed the advise of the forum to buy the stock Zero and burn it in so I could use the stock system as a benchmark . I can also say while waiting for my Zero from Lawrence i've now read this whole forum from page 1 and have leant a lot before even getting my unit .

 First impression of the stock unit in the first 5 minutes was average as expected , after clocking 120 hours I found it still pretty good for the price and good value for the money . Now to try some opamp rolling, I had the opportunity to borrow the OPA627's for the DAC and I got myself a pair of Sample LT1364's also reccommended by many people in here . I did a non stop 60 hour burn in for these IC's and From this setup I found a hugh difference and liked it even more with the OPA627's . I've currently rolled in a set of LM4562's ( Also samples ) in the DAC & Amp and like the open sound stage tight lows and detailed highs . I feel for some one on a budget the LM4562's would also be a good starting point for free samples .

 After reading about how happy people were with these opamps , out comes the Hdams . That caught my interest as to further improve and my friend got a set from Lawrence. After he put 70 hours burnin on the Hdams I got a chance to listen to them , I like them very much indeed , so much so I ordered a set from Audio- GD ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1 I emailed them to order the Dual OPA Earth for $50 delivered to Australia . Yesterday he emailed me that he has sent it and guess what 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 He also sent me the Dual OPA SUN as a pressent 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I asked for him to extend the lead to 100mm giving a little more to play with compared to the stock 50mm lenght. This place seems to be very professional with emails and paymant was easy through Paypal with a 4% charge of $1.70US . 
 I've also taken the advice of this forum to get the DAC the way I want it before working on the amp section. At pressent I'm up in the air as to which set of headphones to get , I've had the opportunity to listen to the AKG 701 with about 200 hours on it . They are great sounding headphones but I as many in the forum have found them a bit lean in the bottom end though very detailed in the mid to upper range , to a point it can sound a bit too clinical . So for me I was going to get the Sennheiser HD650's . I haven't been much of a headphone person but having the zero has given me more interest in this area .

 Anyway I'm egerly waiting for the OPA-EARTH and OPA-SUN's hdams from Audio-GD to try out and to also purchase a set of HD650's eventually ...

 Gavin ...


----------



## Enthusia

Excellent write-up, very thorough. Be sure to tell us how the Earth and Sun sound, especially with your hd650, which I know you will get soon


----------



## fishkill62

A great review Gavszero. I too have purchased from Audio-GD and they are an impressive outfit. Hope to receive my hdams soon...


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gavszero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey there fellow Zero owners. I'd like to introduce myself , my name is Gavin and reside in Brisbane Queensland Australia . I was introduced to the Zero by a friend and I was intreged with the potential it had with opamp rolling . I'm probably one of the rare one's that burned in the zero for 120 hours before doing any critical testing . I followed the advise of the forum to buy the stock Zero and burn it in so I could use the stock system as a benchmark . I can also say while waiting for my Zero from Lawrence i've now read this whole forum from page 1 and have leant a lot before even getting my unit .

 First impression of the stock unit in the first 5 minutes was average as expected , after clocking 120 hours I found it still pretty good for the price and good value for the money . Now to try some opamp rolling, I had the opportunity to borrow the OPA627's for the DAC and I got myself a pair of Sample LT1364's also reccommended by many people in here . I did a non stop 60 hour burn in for these IC's and From this setup I found a hugh difference and liked it even more with the OPA627's . I've currently rolled in a set of LM4562's ( Also samples ) in the DAC & Amp and like the open sound stage tight lows and detailed highs . I feel for some one on a budget the LM4562's would also be a good starting point for free samples .

 After reading about how happy people were with these opamps , out comes the Hdams . That caught my interest as to further improve and my friend got a set from Lawrence. After he put 70 hours burnin on the Hdams I got a chance to listen to them , I like them very much indeed , so much so I ordered a set from Audio- GD ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1 I emailed them to order the Dual OPA Earth for $50 delivered to Australia . Yesterday he emailed me that he has sent it and guess what 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 He also sent me the Dual OPA SUN as a pressent 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I asked for him to extend the lead to 100mm giving a little more to play with compared to the stock 50mm lenght. This place seems to be very professional with emails and paymant was easy through Paypal with a 4% charge of $1.70US . 
 I've also taken the advice of this forum to get the DAC the way I want it before working on the amp section. At pressent I'm up in the air as to which set of headphones to get , I've had the opportunity to listen to the AKG 701 with about 200 hours on it . They are great sounding headphones but I as many in the forum have found them a bit lean in the bottom end though very detailed in the mid to upper range , to a point it can sound a bit too clinical . So for me I was going to get the Sennheiser HD650's . I haven't been much of a headphone person but having the zero has given me more interest in this area .

 Anyway I'm egerly waiting for the OPA-EARTH and OPA-SUN's hdams from Audio-GD to try out and to also purchase a set of HD650's eventually ...

 Gavin ..._

 

Well done Gavin!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 At first the HDAMs seem like another curse, then you listen to them mature and "POW!" your hooked!! Super detailed! I'm running the HDAM in the DAC and LT1364's in the head amp, and the combination is very nice with HD-650's. Keep us informed!!


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gavszero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey there fellow Zero owners. I'd like to introduce myself , my name is Gavin and reside in Brisbane Queensland Australia . I was introduced to the Zero by a friend and I was intreged with the potential it had with opamp rolling . I'm probably one of the rare one's that burned in the zero for 120 hours before doing any critical testing . I followed the advise of the forum to buy the stock Zero and burn it in so I could use the stock system as a benchmark . I can also say while waiting for my Zero from Lawrence i've now read this whole forum from page 1 and have leant a lot before even getting my unit .

 First impression of the stock unit in the first 5 minutes was average as expected , after clocking 120 hours I found it still pretty good for the price and good value for the money . Now to try some opamp rolling, I had the opportunity to borrow the OPA627's for the DAC and I got myself a pair of Sample LT1364's also reccommended by many people in here . I did a non stop 60 hour burn in for these IC's and From this setup I found a hugh difference and liked it even more with the OPA627's . I've currently rolled in a set of LM4562's ( Also samples ) in the DAC & Amp and like the open sound stage tight lows and detailed highs . I feel for some one on a budget the LM4562's would also be a good starting point for free samples .

 After reading about how happy people were with these opamps , out comes the Hdams . That caught my interest as to further improve and my friend got a set from Lawrence. After he put 70 hours burnin on the Hdams I got a chance to listen to them , I like them very much indeed , so much so I ordered a set from Audio- GD ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1 I emailed them to order the Dual OPA Earth for $50 delivered to Australia . Yesterday he emailed me that he has sent it and guess what 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 He also sent me the Dual OPA SUN as a pressent 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I asked for him to extend the lead to 100mm giving a little more to play with compared to the stock 50mm lenght. This place seems to be very professional with emails and paymant was easy through Paypal with a 4% charge of $1.70US . 
 I've also taken the advice of this forum to get the DAC the way I want it before working on the amp section. At pressent I'm up in the air as to which set of headphones to get , I've had the opportunity to listen to the AKG 701 with about 200 hours on it . They are great sounding headphones but I as many in the forum have found them a bit lean in the bottom end though very detailed in the mid to upper range , to a point it can sound a bit too clinical . So for me I was going to get the Sennheiser HD650's . I haven't been much of a headphone person but having the zero has given me more interest in this area .

 Anyway I'm egerly waiting for the OPA-EARTH and OPA-SUN's hdams from Audio-GD to try out and to also purchase a set of HD650's eventually ...

 Gavin ..._

 

I'm a suspicious mind, by nature. The manufacturer link, the additional HDAM as a present, the first post...

 I don't buy it dear Gavin Chen from Down Under. Neither the "pressent" nor the "payament" persuaded me to think differently...

 Too easy to do this.

 I hope that's not true, but IMHO this sounds more like an ad, than a review...

 Where are we heading to guys? 

 I'm eagerly waiting for Penchum's unbiased review of the Zero mods, as for the rest this thread is growing too big and the questions are always the same ones. A FAQ is needed. It would solve a lot of troubles. No newcomer is able to go through the whole thread at this stage. It's huge! That's why most of the questions are always the same...


----------



## gavszero

Hi Pincellone, I can understand you been suspicious as after reading the whole tread I came across many times about a person called Andrea and about any 1 post or review on opamps would be suspicious. I am not that person and not a Chen 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But yeah because of many people saying that Lawrence has run out of Hdams I thought i'd let the forum know where I ordered mine from and hope it goes smoothly as I haven't got them yet . Will report on the postage time to Australia at least . After all I got the link from this forum. The pressent thing I guess was a bonus for me anyway and was suppriced been my first purchase from them . Maybe what he did worked as I sounded like an ad to you . I was excited what can I say I'm getting a free Hdam 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just thought I'd give my experience with my first DAC and the opamps I've tried and want to get the Hdams after hearing it perform in my friend's Zero. If the person in this forum didn't put this link for the cheaper discreet opamp I'd be paying almost double the price .. I was originally going to buy from Burson Audio in Melbourne Australia but they want $150aus . I'm on disability and had the time to read the whole tread believe it or not in 2 weeks off and on .. I'm kicking myself not marking the pages with important mods like the Alps Volume pot upgrade, certain opamp combination's etc . Could have logged a list of what page to go to to answer the FAQ .

 Anyway I hope I become less Suspicious as time goes by . 

 Cheers,
 Gavin ...


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gavszero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Pincellone, I can understand you been suspicious as after reading the whole tread I came across many times about a person called Andrea and about any 1 post or review on opamps would be suspicious. I am not that person and not a Chen 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But yeah because of many people saying that Lawrence has run out of Hdams I thought i'd let the forum know where I ordered mine from and hope it goes smoothly as I haven't got them yet . Will report on the postage time to Australia at least . After all I got the link from this forum. The pressent thing I guess was a bonus for me anyway and was suppriced been my first purchase from them . Maybe what he did worked as I sounded like an ad to you . I was excited what can I say I'm getting a free Hdam 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just thought I'd give my experience with my first DAC and the opamps I've tried and want to get the Hdams after hearing it perform in my friend's Zero. If the person in this forum didn't put this link for the cheaper discreet opamp I'd be paying almost double the price .. I was originally going to buy from Burson Audio in Melbourne Australia but they want $150aus . I'm on disability and had the time to read the whole tread believe it or not in 2 weeks off and on .. I'm kicking myself not marking the pages with important mods like the Alps Volume pot upgrade, certain opamp combination's etc . Could have logged a list of what page to go to to answer the FAQ .

 Anyway I hope I become less Suspicious as time goes by . 

 Cheers,
 Gavin ..._

 

I have to admit I was pseudo-suspicious, too - although this write-up did have a distinctly different "feel" than Andrea's stuff... either way I'm VERY much anticipating your thoughts on the HDAMs. I've got my eye on the "earth" one, but would like to hear what you (and others) have to say first.


----------



## Nedman

I also have been told by Audio- GD that he is giving me both the sun and earth units. And I only paid for one [sun].


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nedman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I also have been told by Audio- GD that he is giving me both the sun and earth units. And I only paid for one [sun]._

 

Soundsl ike maybe now is the time to order, eh?


----------



## Nedman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sounds like maybe now is the time to order, eh?_

 

I have no idea if he's going to continue giving away two for one. But it would be worth a try.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Garret Jax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can you link to the actual post? Depending on screen resolution and forum settings, we don't all share the same number of posts per page - the link you provided lists a set of posts that don't address the LED brightness issue. Thanks Katanka!_

 

Garret Jax - I've done this mod on my old unit. It's a doddle to do. Undo the 6 screws holding the top onto the chassis, slide it off. There are 2 screws holding the front of the faceplate on, and 3 holding the underside. Undo them all, pull off the volume knob and unscrew the retaining nut.

 Withdraw the faceplate. 4 screws hold the LED PCB in place. Remove them, and you'll see 3 resistors parallel to each other. With a jewellers screwdriver pushed underneath one of them, touch the solder pad with a soldering iron. The resistor will lift out on one side. Grab the resistor with one finger and thumb, and pull whilst touching the other pad with the soldering iron.

 Repeat for all 3 resistors. Use a solder sucker on the bare pads to ensure the new component will slide through easily. If you don't have one, then touching the pad with the soldering iron whilst trying to push the new component through should yield a positive result.

 It would be far easier had the factory not wanted these units to be seen from space. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Replacement values - 3.3k is slightly too bright IMO. 4.7k gives a very similar brightness to the green headphone LED. 10k makes them illuminate still, but far more discretely.

 I'm using 4.7k in mine(well, now my brothers). Makes a huge difference... the room is no longer illuminated like a church 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 Everyone - I've emailed Audio-GD, with a view to buying the Sun model of the discrete opamp. Given the low prices, I'd toyed with the idea of using one HDAM in the DAC and 2 in the headphone amplifier, but at the moment I think I'll just try the one out first. It's an unknown quantity until more people have tried it out, so I feel more comfortable parting with $33 + post for the one module and extension lead, rather than parting with $100 for three 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can sure identify with the "old friend" syndrome, 3/4 of the equipment in this room with me, is from 1978 (ish). After I completed restoration work on most of it, I played Ted Nugent's first album with "Stranglehold" on it. I was immediately blow away by the exact same sound I remembered from back then. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Not too many systems can sound as good as analog done properly. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you did entertain the idea of a second set of headphones, I think the HD-650's would be the easiest to get accustomed to. You would then have an old friend and a new friend. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm pretty sure you'd find time to listen to both. When I added my HD-600's, I was worried I might not use them. I always seem to find time to listen to them, mostly because they are special in their own way._

 

I've had a couple of pairs of Senns now, and to be honest, I fancy going for something completely different. Because there's literally nothing wrong with what I've currently got... I fancy going for something else. I'd pretty much settled on the BeyerDynamic DT880, then started reading about the Denon AH-D5000s, and pretty much settled on them.

 Long story short, I was in a motorcycle accident last December. I plan on banking the entire compensation sum, minus any pair of headphones I like. Whether they be £100 or £2000... less is always better though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 Typical UK price is £500/$1000 for the D5k, so I'll likely be importing them... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There's a nagging part of me that known that I'll always prefer the overall experience of a good speaker system, and that I shouldn't blow a huge amount of money on headphones. Damned common-sense 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl


----------



## Sherwood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm a suspicious mind, by nature. The manufacturer link, the additional HDAM as a present, the first post..._

 

Advertiser or no, I'm grateful for a more reasonably priced alternative to the Burson. The rest of you may already have been apprised of numerous alternate discrete opamps, but our dear Gavin posted the first link I'VE read, and that's worth it to me.

 If any of the rest of you grab one of these, do let me know. I'm thinking of picking one up for my Fubar II, as if I didn't have enough to review as it was...


----------



## jdog826

hey guys been lurking in this thread for awhile. i recently bought a pair of beyer 770's from someone on this forum and now i'm thinking about getting one of these dac/amps. i like the idea of having a dac/amp in one unit that can accept a digital input. i don't plan on using my pc. i got some questions though. i plan on using my ps3/xbox360 as the source and running digital optical to the zero. is this possible? can the zero decode any signal i.e. dolby 5.1 and dts then downmix to stereo? is it as big as it looks in the pics? does it get hot? one more thing, anyone using hd650 with this unit? i think i might upgrade to them eventually. thanks in advance!
 jason


----------



## AudioPhewl

Can't answer them all, but these I do know:-

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jdog826* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_is it as big as it looks in the pics?_

 

220mm wide, 245mm long, 55mm tall, or thereabouts. It was dark when I did this, but they should be close.

  Quote:


 does it get hot? 
 

Yes. Not stupidly hot, but certainly warmer than most CD players.

  Quote:


 one more thing, anyone using hd650 with this unit? i think i might upgrade to them eventually. thanks in advance!
 jason 
 

Loads of folk use the 650 on here, so I'd say it's a safe bet that someone in this thread will be using them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl


----------



## ccschua

I am still waiting for my Sun and Earth to arrive. cant wait to give it a try. If u look at the osciloscope, it is amazing results.

 here is where I got it. pls tell him to give dual output else it wont work on zero (or u have sound on 1 channel?).
http://www.audio-gd.com/enweb/pro/diy/OPA.htm

 Also I am thinking of modding the power stage capacitor to Sanyo Oscon. can anyone tell me the value or the link to farnell component.


----------



## Nedman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If u look at the oscilloscope, it is amazing results.
_

 

What's good about the results on the oscilloscope? 

 I had no idea what it all meant


----------



## ScottieB

^ what he said.


----------



## richierich

Currently burning in my LM4562s. Should I put one in the DAC section and put the LT1364s back in the amp section?


----------



## Carter54

My Zero is on its way cant wait to play


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nedman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What's good about the results on the oscilloscope? 

 I had no idea what it all meant 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

To a designer, Oscilloscope is like fishing rope. 

 The OPA 2604 just give a lot of overshoot at the frequency response, even can be noticed at 10kHZ response.(check carefully, u can see the response go above the flat line)

 Now this overshoot results in treble sounds rough and bright, fatigue if listen long time.

 Whereas OPA Sun is more energetic if you see its short term response. The treble is full of detail and smooth as if driving on 7 lane highway instead 4. (and u get into traffic jam less likely than 7)


----------



## glitch39

are the HDAM's compatible for use on the zero's amp section? I have one on the DAC section, but they would be just a great on the amp section, then I can save one one additional component


----------



## Nedman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To a designer, Oscilloscope is like fishing rope. 

 The OPA 2604 just give a lot of overshoot at the frequency response, even can be noticed at 10kHZ response.(check carefully, u can see the response go above the flat line)

 Now this overshoot results in treble sounds rough and bright, fatigue if listen long time.

 Whereas OPA Sun is more energetic if you see its short term response. The treble is full of detail and smooth as if driving on 7 lane highway instead 4. (and u get into traffic jam less likely than 7)_

 

Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think I see it, it's more pronounced on the 100Hz photo than the 10Hz photo. But its still there in the 10Hz photo. 

 One thing tho, that second set of photos are for the earth unit. So the sun unit must be more energetic again.


----------



## alxwang

Really newbie question but hope can get answer:

 If I just get two earth from ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1 can I just use one replace opamp(dual op627) and the other one be use in headphone amp?

 Also where I can find the information about upgrade the headphone amp?

 Thanks.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alxwang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Really newbie question but hope can get answer:

 If I just get two earth from ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1 can I just use one replace opamp(dual op627) and the other one be use in headphone amp?

 Also where I can find the information about upgrade the headphone amp?

 Thanks._

 

pls make sure ur purchase is dual output type. 

 Alltogether 3 opamp is required. 1 for the DAC section (replace opa 627) and 2 for the headphone amp section.


----------



## alxwang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_pls make sure ur purchase is dual output type. 

 Alltogether 3 opamp is required. 1 for the DAC section (replace opa 627) and 2 for the headphone amp section._

 

Thanks a lot!
 Another q: Is that headphone amp section replace job still a pull out and put new one in process or need solder?

 What the difference of sun and earth? Which one is better?


----------



## azncookiecutter

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_pls make sure ur purchase is dual output type. 

 Alltogether 3 opamp is required. 1 for the DAC section (replace opa 627) and 2 for the headphone amp section._

 

I thought the opamp in the headphone section was a dual channel one? Then it'll just need 2 opamps in total, provided that they're both dual channel opamps?


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alxwang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks a lot!
 Another q: Is that headphone amp section replace job still a pull out and put new one in process or need solder?

 What the difference of sun and earth? Which one is better?_

 

Just pull out and put in. it is a socket type. fren, imazine zero is like yr, pls undress her and see what is inside.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *azncookiecutter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought the opamp in the headphone section was a dual channel one? Then it'll just need 2 opamps in total, provided that they're both dual channel opamps?_

 

again for someone who dun want to open zero and see inside, there altogether 3 opamp being used. 1 for DAC section and 2 for the headphone amp section. all are dual output.


----------



## BigTony

I've seen on Ebay this Zero DAC and HeadAmp with USB, but nothing in the pictures indicates a USB socket?
 Am I to assume they mean to use a USB-Optical adapter? Has anyone got any experience on the USB-optical? I would like to grab one of these from my office at work, to tempt me to go in more often!

 Cheers

 BT


----------



## richierich

Yes the upgraded Zeros come with a USB/SPDIF adapter.


----------



## decayed.cell

Sorry to interrupt but I need to get this straight haha.

 The Lawrence Head-Fi deal consists of the Zero modded with OPA627 and LT1364s and an ALPS Pot?

 I'm thinking of buying two from wsz0304 people seem to have had good experiences and I've confirmed that this comes with the OPA627, ALPS Pot, USB to SPDIF converter

 Perhaps the first post should be updated with this information?


----------



## richierich

Wow I should've waited just a little bit longer to get my Zero because I bought mine from wsz0304 as well but it didn't come with the ALPS Pot yet. Oh well, still love my Zero! And the LM4562 in the DAC section sounds very, very nice.


----------



## decayed.cell

Really huh thats bad luck but yeah in the FAQ it says they come with them now. Sounds like wsz0304 is the way to go then - seems like a good deal for me in Australia anyway since the ALPS cost an arm and a leg

 "A: Thank you for your message and interest in this item. Yes,the unit comes with the USB-SPDIF converter.The shipping cost to Singapore/Australia are USD36.8/USD43 separately.It takes 5-7 working days by transportation.And the upgrade one is with ALPS pot..."


----------



## wcp6

Hong Kong Post is giving me the run around currently. They said it left hong kong on the 11th, then later that day said it would leave the 12th. Now it says it will leave the 13th (It is about 3pm on the 13th there right now)

 >
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Can't wait for it


----------



## davidastoria

i'm trying to decide between the ZERO and KECES DA-131. i don't want to assume that the KECES is better because its costs twice as much ($320 BIN v. $128 BIN), especially with the ZERO's potential for mods.

 i'm planning to use it with the Little Dot MK V or Little Dot MK IV SE with the Sennheiser HD650.

 Are there any vouches for the ZERO over the KECESDA-131 or vice versa with my intended setup? and I realize the cost of modding may end up negating the money saved over the DA-131. 

 Is there a rough estimate of how much these mods cost: HDAM, LT1364, LM4562, OPA-Earth, OPA-Sun. <~Not that I fully understand what these mods are, but they seem to be popular and discussed a lot, and something I'll probably get into later.

 my finances are finally permitting and i'm really anxious to get things ordered, especially before the MS Live cashback disappears on ebay.

 thanks in advance for any tips!


----------



## ccschua

Unfortunately not many of us have the luxury to test all kind of DAC to give u the opinion. 

 I suggest u try to read around all the web for KECES and find out what users think and feel about it. Make sure they use KECES with little dot, SenH. i.e. comparable to your listening gear. if not, u have to ask their opinion.

 Then read the ZERO for the opinion and experience that users have here. that will give u kick start. The HDAM, LT and others OPA are about USD 30 at most. HDAM is about USD 80 bcos of copyright, so why pay more. Even OPA Sun or Earth price will be similar to OPA 627. Alot of users here have good results with your gear, just like Penchuum.

 but If u still keen in ZERO, get the stock unit (no special, except the pot ) and wait for user review on OPA Earth and sun.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've had a couple of pairs of Senns now, and to be honest, I fancy going for something completely different. Because there's literally nothing wrong with what I've currently got... I fancy going for something else. I'd pretty much settled on the BeyerDynamic DT880, then started reading about the Denon AH-D5000s, and pretty much settled on them.

 Long story short, I was in a motorcycle accident last December. I plan on banking the entire compensation sum, minus any pair of headphones I like. Whether they be £100 or £2000... less is always better though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 Typical UK price is £500/$1000 for the D5k, so I'll likely be importing them... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There's a nagging part of me that known that I'll always prefer the overall experience of a good speaker system, and that I shouldn't blow a huge amount of money on headphones. Damned common-sense 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl_

 

AP,

 Man, sorry about the bike accident! I'm a biker as well, who can't ride anymore because of a spinal fusion surgery gone bad. I hope you are better and can ride again? (My bike is sitting in the garage crying for me!)

 The speaker system preference is very common around here, and I fall into that same frame of mind. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have a "newer" respect and love for head audio, but I'm not willing to shell out the top money for that last few percent of goodness. I've been a fan of "inexpensive but quality" headphone audio from the start. It is such a good feeling to have excellent sound for less. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The DT880 seems to have a large fan base here. If I had a short list, they would be on it for sure. I don't know squat about the Denon's. I guess I've fallen behind in reading lately! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I hope that Sennheiser will come out with a new model or two pretty soon. Close outs are happening on HD-600's and HD-650's, from the "open box" re-certified stocks, so maybe that is a good sign?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *richierich* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes the upgraded Zeros come with a USB/SPDIF adapter._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry to interrupt but I need to get this straight haha.

 The Lawrence Head-Fi deal consists of the Zero modded with OPA627 and LT1364s and an ALPS Pot?

 I'm thinking of buying two from wsz0304 people seem to have had good experiences and I've confirmed that this comes with the OPA627, ALPS Pot, USB to SPDIF converter

 Perhaps the first post should be updated with this information?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *richierich* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow I should've waited just a little bit longer to get my Zero because I bought mine from wsz0304 as well but it didn't come with the ALPS Pot yet. Oh well, still love my Zero! And the LM4562 in the DAC section sounds very, very nice._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Really huh thats bad luck but yeah in the FAQ it says they come with them now. Sounds like wsz0304 is the way to go then - seems like a good deal for me in Australia anyway since the ALPS cost an arm and a leg

 "A: Thank you for your message and interest in this item. Yes,the unit comes with the USB-SPDIF converter.The shipping cost to Singapore/Australia are USD36.8/USD43 separately.It takes 5-7 working days by transportation.And the upgrade one is with ALPS pot..."_

 

Part of the reason why there isn't a bunch of purchasing information on the first page goodies, is that the prices get changed like underwear, and the included options and extra options change like the wind!

 That seller wsz0304 has told "included" information that wasn't correct two times now, and I'm really not sure what is included anymore.

 As far as I know, the "HeadFi Deal" is still only the upgrades to OPA627's on an adapter, in the DAC, and the LT1364's in the headphone amp. The "real" Alps NOS volume pot was an option you had to pay for, like $10 I think.

 Another eBay seller was selling the stock Zero, with DAC upgrade to OPA627's and a separate grey colored USB/SPDIF-Optical sound card device.

 So right there, are three different setups with 3 different end results. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I guess the old saying about "If in doubt, email them for what you want" applies heavily right now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If we could get "absolute" confirmation on what is included and what is available for options, from each "trusted" seller, I wouldn't have a problem with adding it as an addendum at the end of the review, as long as there was a way to keep it current. This might be difficult on many levels though.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davidastoria* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there a rough estimate of how much these mods cost: HDAM, LT1364, LM4562, OPA-Earth, OPA-Sun. <~Not that I fully understand what these mods are, but they seem to be popular and discussed a lot, and something I'll probably get into later._

 

Don't worry, I had no idea either before I started reading this thread what it all meant!

 Basically, the Zero has two functions - it can be a straight DAC, which sits between a CD player, computer or similar device and an amp. It's second function involves pressing a single button on the front of the unit that turns it into a pre-amp or headphone amp, depending on whether anything is plugged into its headphone socket or not.

 Inside the unit one can see that the DAC section and AMP section are on separate boards. The AMP section has the volume control and headphone socket. On that board are two small ICs (integrated circuits) which are in removable sockets. The DAC section has one of this ICs. These ICs are known as "opamps".

 Opamps, rather like valves, can be "rolled" - in other words, switched with other models that affect the sound differently. The stock opamps are ok, but not fantastic. Penchum, through trial and error figured out the best combination, which is now available as the "head-fi special" from Lawrence. After that was figured out, I forgot who, but someone tried instead of putting opamps in, they could put in a small mounted circuit board called a HDAM unit. This HDAM unit uses high quality transitors to amplify the signal. The result was a significant, if slightly expensive improvement (considering that the Zero is a very cheap unit for what it does). 

 The latest news are HDAM units called the Earth and Sun respectively. There's hope that they'll give a significant improvement in sound. Since they are a little cheaper than the HDAMs that are currently available, there's hope that they'll provide the best bang-for-your-buck available.

 As well as the opamp upgrades, the default volume "pot" isn't very high quality, resulting in hiss or uneven left/right balance for some people. One of the most respected manufacturers in Japan, Alps, are well known for making high quality volume pots. There's a specific model that can be used instead in the amp section of Zero instead of the default cheap one which fixes these issues.

 The resulting head-fi special is a Zero with 2x OPA627 opamps on a special adaptor for the DAC section, and 2x LT1364 opamps in the AMP section and the better quality volume pot.

 I hope that answers your question. I'm sorry I'm not up on the exact price for the units.


----------



## richierich

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davidastoria* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there a rough estimate of how much these mods cost: HDAM, LT1364, LM4562, OPA-Earth, OPA-Sun. <~Not that I fully understand what these mods are, but they seem to be popular and discussed a lot, and something I'll probably get into later._

 

Doesn't the HDAM cost $80? If you are in the U.S. the LT1364 x2 samples can be had for free (a total of 5 different sample pairs could be ordered from Linear Tech). LM4562 x3 samples cost $10 shipped from National. If you have a work or school e-mail address, then they are free. And lastly, I believe people have been charged ~$50 for the OPA-Earth & OPA-Sun combo (people have been lucky to get the OPA-Sun for free after purchasing only the OPA-Earth).

 I wouldn't worry too much about the HDAM or OPA-Earth/Sun right now. You may enjoy the Zero just with the cheapies, like so many others have.


----------



## alxwang

Just got some information about the earth and sun.

 As Mr He said replace Headphone amp to earth or sun instead of LT1364 will cause low impedance phones(32-100) does not get engouth output and only 100 above will be fine.

 So he suggest me about their new product
ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 2 which I do not even understand what is it.

 I am thinking to do this update to use it with denon but now...

 Any thought?


----------



## richierich

On that Buffer-2 product I don't see any digital inputs.


----------



## ccschua

A little bit of correction on opamp rolling vs tube. Tube rolling is also another aspect that gives different sound characteristics. Its another area for rolling only to the eye of beholder.

 Well I was lucky to be given free OPA-Earth, so called early birds. My shipping is as usual slow like snail. I have switched to OPA 627 to gauge against the arrival Sun and Earth.


----------



## alxwang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *richierich* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On that Buffer-2 product I don't see any digital inputs._

 

I think he suggest me to use the buffer to adjust the impedance. SO maybe connect it after zero.

 I am not going to buy it for sure.


----------



## ccschua

I have been looking for the replacement capacitor for the power supply to the DAC and receiver chip.

 So far the stock is 100uF 25V. But the Sanyo Os-Con capacitor gives only max 20V 100uF. Can I use this one ?


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *richierich* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Doesn't the HDAM cost $80? If you are in the U.S. the LT1364 x2 samples can be had for free (a total of 5 different sample pairs could be ordered from Linear Tech). LM4562 x3 samples cost $10 shipped from National. If you have a work or school e-mail address, then they are free. And lastly, I believe people have been charged ~$50 for the OPA-Earth & OPA-Sun combo (people have been lucky to get the OPA-Sun for free after purchasing only the OPA-Earth).

 I wouldn't worry too much about the HDAM or OPA-Earth/Sun right now. You may enjoy the Zero just with the cheapies, like so many others have._

 


 oh yeah. if u buy before 15 it is free OPA Sun. The balance sum is kept for other use by u. this is not officially announce though.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_oh yeah. if u buy before 15 it is free OPA Sun. The balance sum is kept for other use by u. this is not officially announce though._

 

Well that does it - I contacted them to order. I haven't heard back yet regarding shipping costs, but he confirmed that until the 15th it is buy-one-get-one... made me choose to send an email!


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have been looking for the replacement capacitor for the power supply to the DAC and receiver chip.

 So far the stock is 100uF 25V. But the Sanyo Os-Con capacitor gives only max 20V 100uF. Can I use this one ?_

 

You'd need to measure the voltage across the stock capacitor. If it's below 20v, then you should be good. But it is always advisable to try and use components of a higher working value that that actually used. The nearer the capacitor is to its rated maximum, the shorter the useful lifespan.

 Panasonic FC/FM models are available at the correct voltage and with higher rated capacities. I'd look to use one of those rather than fastidiously filling the board with Sanyo OS-CONs.

 They're good capacitors, especially for power supplues.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_AP,

 Man, sorry about the bike accident! I'm a biker as well, who can't ride anymore because of a spinal fusion surgery gone bad. I hope you are better and can ride again? (My bike is sitting in the garage crying for me!)

 The speaker system preference is very common around here, and I fall into that same frame of mind. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I have a "newer" respect and love for head audio, but I'm not willing to shell out the top money for that last few percent of goodness. I've been a fan of "inexpensive but quality" headphone audio from the start. It is such a good feeling to have excellent sound for less. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The DT880 seems to have a large fan base here. If I had a short list, they would be on it for sure. I don't know squat about the Denon's. I guess I've fallen behind in reading lately! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I hope that Sennheiser will come out with a new model or two pretty soon. Close outs are happening on HD-600's and HD-650's, from the "open box" re-certified stocks, so maybe that is a good sign?_

 

I remember reading of your injuries in the general discussion forum. Must suck to not be able to jump on the bike, but at least there is hope that one day, you'll be able to. I assume, anyway?

 Mine was relatively simple - an old woman drove into the side of my bike whilst I was on a roundabout. She hit my LH side with the front of her car. Bike was written off(mostly cosmetic damage), foot, ankle and knee were bruised but nothing broken.

 Regarding Senns - it's about time they released something new, and half-decent. The HD6x0 have been kicking around for what now seems like an eternity. Maybe they've reached the pinnacle of headphone design... or maybe they've just reached their limits 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## ScottieB

Hey AP, just curious if you ever got your situation with Lawrence straightened out or not - did you ever hear back? So strange to me that whole deal...


----------



## AudioPhewl

Still not heard a peep from him. My paypal dispute page says "Being reviewed by Paypal", but when you click on it, it says "Status: We're unable to decide this claim in your favour at this time. PayPal's Buyer Complaint Policy applies to the delivery of goods but not to disputes about merchandise quality.". It's been like that from the moment I started it(27th July I think?), despite me lodging documents which needed reading(emails to and from the seller).

 I keep meaning to pop down to the bank and file a chargeback against them. UK law is on my side, so I can't see an issue with getting this done. It's just a case of finding the time to go into town during the day to get the ball rolling. I do plan on ordering some of those discrete component amplifiers to try out, rather than opamps, and I'll be using Paypal on them from the looks of things. So I guess I'll wait on issuing the chargeback until that is paid for and shipped.

 I tend to think that had my second email to him not been so firm regarding the acceptable outcomes to me(I expected to pay to return the unit, and either have the full cost of purchase refunded, or a replacement unit shipped FOC), we may have gotten somewhere. I think he's not keen on paying to ship me a replacement unit, his email was somewhat ambiguous about exactly what would be refunded if I spent the money on returning the unit.

 As things stand, he's not even given me his shipping address, so I'm at quite a loss really. Whilst I think I've tracked the fault back to either a dry joint on the DAC IC or a faulty DAC IC, I'm confident I can repair it, but I'm cautious about removing the faulty component. They're fiddly little blighters.

 Either way, I'm not touching it until the dispute is resolved or the chargeback complete.

 I'm still disgusted with his lack of communication, but I'm equally peeved at Paypal. They offer no assistance if the goods are received but faulty. Makes me wonder exactly what they do in order to charge their fees...

 ~Phewl.

_ETA - my 100th post in this thread! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* 
_SNIP
 I'm still disgusted with his lack of communication, but I'm equally peeved at Paypal. They offer no assistance if the goods are received but faulty. Makes me wonder exactly what they do in order to charge their fees...

 ~Phewl.

ETA - my 100th post in this thread! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Haha I've wondered that myself about paypal - many many times (especially as an ebay seller - especially especially now that ebay OWNS paypal - they get you twice the bastards!). Bummer to hear it still hasn't been fixed - here's hoping you get it all squared away soon!


----------



## AudioPhewl

Fingers crossed the chargeback will work out in my favour. I've already got a 0.5mm soldering iron tip, and some really thin solder, and AD were kind enough to ship me a couple of AD1852 samples a week or two ago.

 With a dollop of luck, I'll come out of this all with a working Zero DAC, and all my money back. I keep holding off on buying a new Zero through another seller because I'm quietly confident I can repair this one.

 But, truth be told, I'm hating the sight of it at the moment. I might buy myself a new one, then loan this one out to folk looking to buy a Zero. Seems to be lots of interest in such a loan programme, judging by the amount of queries this thread gets.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## davidastoria

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The resulting head-fi special is a Zero with 2x OPA627 opamps on a special adaptor for the DAC section, and 2x LT1364 opamps in the AMP section and the better quality volume pot._

 

Thanks! you have been very helpful! so I would want the "upgrade" version from wsz0304 with the OPA627 opamps, and then I would just get an HDAM later to add-on, right? I'm primarily interested in the ZERO as a DAC for a Little Dot MK V, so the amp upgrades isn't necessary, right?


----------



## AudioPhewl

The replacement of the opamps in the headphone section would be useless if you are using an external amplifier via the RCA output sockets.

 Upgrading the solitary dual-opamp in the DAC section with a pair of OPA627s on an adapter board would yield a noticeable gain in sound quality. The OPA627s and adapter board would be useless if you upgraded to an HDAM, whether it be Bursen, from Lawrence, or the OPA-SUN or OPA-EARTH modules purchased elsewhere. The HDAM module would take the place of the original, or upgraded, opamps.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## davidastoria

in other words, get the normal version and getting a HDAM addon is the optimal setup right now, at least till reviews for the OPA-Earth/Sun get going. right?


----------



## AudioPhewl

OPA-Earth and OPA-Sun are just different names for HDAM modules. They are all discrete-component-based opamp-substitutes.

 Chances are that any of them will perform better than an opamp.

 HDAM is a term coined by Marantz back in the mid-1990s. They created a discrete-component based opamp substitute, and branded it "HDAM". The name has stuck with this thread.

 It's certainly a lot easier to type "HDAM" than "Discrete-component-based-opamp-substitute" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

Marantz Europe
http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=6&gl=uk

 ~Phewl.


----------



## nsx_23

Hmm, interesting unit. May well consider one of these as a Christmas present


----------



## decayed.cell

Not sure if anyones picked this up yet but I've been doing some snooping around and I have a feeling that biglawhk off eBay is actually Lawrence Chan. Alas, doing some googling... "I know Lawrence (who sells this amp on ebay under biglawhk)"

 That said, I'm going to fire him a message to confirm this. Can anyone clear up this Head-Fi deal thing (why does he offer it etc)? If he does sell an upgraded Zero I'm just not sure why he doesn't sell it on eBay, even if it is at a premium.


----------



## richierich

^^^

 Been mentioned many times in this thread


----------



## alxwang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alxwang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got some information about the earth and sun.

 As Mr He said replace Headphone amp to earth or sun instead of LT1364 will cause low impedance phones(32-100) does not get engouth output and only 100 above will be fine.

 I am thinking to do this update to use it with denon but now...
_

 

Any thought?


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *richierich* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^^^

 Been mentioned many times in this thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I see... its just hard to sift through 500 odd pages of thread haha. We really need to start a modding thread...

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That seller wsz0304 has told "included" information that wasn't correct two times now, and I'm really not sure what is included anymore.

 As far as I know, the "HeadFi Deal" is still only the upgrades to OPA627's on an adapter, in the DAC, and the LT1364's in the headphone amp. The "real" Alps NOS volume pot was an option you had to pay for, like $10 I think.

 Another eBay seller was selling the stock Zero, with DAC upgrade to OPA627's and a separate grey colored USB/SPDIF-Optical sound card device.

 So right there, are three different setups with 3 different end results. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'll try emailing all the other eBay sellers on exactly what they offer.

 biglawhk = Lawrence. Offers ALPS pot for $10, and an additional $10 for installation if desired. His deal is as follows:
 1x OPA627 installed on the DAC, 2x LT1364 installed in the headphone amp section. Comes with digital cable
 Quoted $140 USD + Shipping per unit (I'm after 2 units)

 wsz0304. Does not offer installation of LT1364s in headphone amp section.
 1x OPA627 installed on the DAC, ALPS Pot*, USB/SPDIF converter
 Quoted $128 USD + Shipping

 *to be confirmed


----------



## ScottieB

^ is it just me or does that not make sense. Does he mean that low impedance headphones will have TOO MUCH output thus making it only ok for 100ohm or higher? Otherwise, what would that mean? That only BELOW 100ohm will be ok and above will not get enough gain?


----------



## ccschua

This is what my first impression about OPA Earth and what I wrote the designer Mr He KingWa. 

 Just receive your OPA - Earth and Sun. Very nice packing.

 test rig : 
 tranport : DVD NS76H
 ZERO DAC with OPA EArth
 Amplifier : Audiospace DU2.8i, 4 nos 6V6, 1x12AX7, 2x12AU7
 Speaer : AAD Silver reference 1

 cables : QED Qunex 2, stock optical
 Test CD : Nils Lofgren, Acoustic Live, Chinese Audiophile CD, Chinese Cai Qing, Chesky 

 First impression I must say very long lasting. I have found the sound that I miss. The earth sounds so natural and crisp clear. The separation is very good when I play the chinese high impact drums. The vocal is so natural and the singer sibilance (like the Sssst, Ssssh) is gone. This is what I am looking for. It is so much better than the OPA 627, way much better.



 good job. next I will test OPA Sun.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is what my first impression about OPA Earth and what I wrote the designer Mr He KingWa. 

 Just receive your OPA - Earth and Sun. Very nice packing.


 First impression I must say very long lasting. I have found the sound that I miss. The earth sounds so natural and crisp clear. The separation is very good when I play the chinese high impact drums. The vocal is so natural and the singer sibilance (like the Sssst, Ssssh) is gone. This is what I am looking for. It is so much better than the OPA 627, way much better.



 good job. next I will test OPA Sun._

 

Thanks for that! Great to hear! I'm about to order tomorrow. For anyone who is curious, it came to $58.20 US to pay via paypal and get the 100mm lead (and the free second unit!!!). Sounds like it will be well worth it! Anxious to hear your impression on the Sun.


----------



## alxwang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ is it just me or does that not make sense. Does he mean that low impedance headphones will have TOO MUCH output thus making it only ok for 100ohm or higher? Otherwise, what would that mean? That only BELOW 100ohm will be ok and above will not get enough gain?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That's what I thought too.
 I will keep ask him.

 Also for the 2 NE5532 in zero can I just use one sun and one earth to replace them or I have to put two same one in?


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for that! Great to hear! I'm about to order tomorrow. For anyone who is curious, it came to $58.20 US to pay via paypal and get the 100mm lead (and the free second unit!!!). Sounds like it will be well worth it! Anxious to hear your impression on the Sun._

 

Mr He response is super fast. Just drop a email for the actual and he will reply u quite fast, unless he is away. I always say he is busy at the internet.

 Well Mr He give me the extension cable with male and female adaptor at both end. that was much better. but for easy testing I just hook direct to the socket. 

 The output of OPA Earth and Sun is class A high current output. I guess ZERO power supply is enuf to cater for that. to check is easy, just make sure the components are not to hot lol.

 please the test result is only first impression. I need to burn in for 100 hours. To burn in, just switch on the ZERO will do. and the recommended burn in is 300 hours, that is longer than to receive my opa earth.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

I have been looking through this thread where to get the free samples and can't find exactly where at or which one. Can anyone help me out. Linear.com has 3 different lt1364 so which one do I get also got the same question for the LM4562 from national.com. Thanks in advance for anything to help someone so confused.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alxwang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's what I thought too.
 I will keep ask him.

 Also for the 2 NE5532 in zero can I just use one sun and one earth to replace them or I have to put two same one in?_

 

To replace the NE 5532, u need two unit of the same one. Either 2xOPA earth or 2xOPA Sun, all dual output type (more expansive).

 Since u still have 1 day before buy 1 free 1, u might as well get 1 pair and get 1 pair free.

 I think OPA sun for DAC, and OPA earth for headphone is better, cos earth receive the blessing from sun.


----------



## alxwang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To replace the NE 5532, u need two unit of the same one. Either 2xOPA earth or 2xOPA Sun, all dual output type (more expansive).

 Since u still have 1 day before buy 1 free 1, u might as well get 1 pair and get 1 pair free.

 I think OPA sun for DAC, and OPA earth for headphone is better, cos earth receive the blessing from sun._

 

thanks a lot!


----------



## ccschua

To promote the use of OPA range of products to the ZERO community, the designer has decided to extend the free 1 to 1 offer until 31st Aug. 2008. For any number of OPA Sun/earth purchase,d the same number of OPA Earth is free. Man, how to beat the price.

 Here is my initial setup, still untidy.

 Edited : Free OPA Sun/Earth - OPA Sun deleted.


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To promote the use of OPA range of products to the ZERO community, the designer has decided to extend the free 1 to 1 offer until 31st Aug. 2008. For any number of OPA Sun purchase, the same number of OPA earth is free. Man, how to beat the price.

 Here is my initial setup, still untidy._

 

I take it thats sitting in the opamp socket without any extra wiring?


----------



## richierich

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have been looking through this thread where to get the free samples and can't find exactly where at or which one. Can anyone help me out. Linear.com has 3 different lt1364 so which one do I get also got the same question for the LM4562 from national.com. Thanks in advance for anything to help someone so confused._

 

LT1364CS8 and MDIP LM4562NA


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I take it thats sitting in the opamp socket without any extra wiring?_

 

That was me trying to have a quick listening. I never close my casing as I dont think I need too. The zero sits inside the cabinet and it is good cooling too.

 this is the cable attached.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Thanks a lot richierich! Are the any other free samples that I should get?


----------



## davidastoria

so in my quest to decide between the KECES 131 and ZERO, i see that the KECES uses: "Audiophile Grade Burr Brown PCM1793 DAC IC and two BurrBrown OPA604"

 is the OPA604 inferior to the OPA627 and the HDAM modules? 

 and what is the PCM1793? is that to be compared to the ZERO's: Recevial chip CS8416 / Decode Chip AD1852

 thank you very much for your help guys.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davidastoria* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so in my quest to decide between the KECES 131 and ZERO, i see that the KECES uses: "Audiophile Grade Burr Brown PCM1793 DAC IC and two BurrBrown OPA604"

 is the OPA604 inferior to the OPA627 and the HDAM modules? 

 and what is the PCM1793? is that to be compared to the ZERO's: Recevial chip CS8416 / Decode Chip AD1852

 thank you very much for your help guys._

 

What do u get when comparing the specs of the keces and ZERO dac? do u buy on specs or unbias feedback.

 if u have the budget and feels satisfied for something more quality, by all means go.

 ----

 u can take a look at this page.

Marantz & Philips - The complete d/a DAC converter list - Marantzphilips.nl

 Among all these DAC, they have their own pros/cons. specs wise, they are quite the same. Some prefer AD1852 due to its natural sound, some prefer CS for its dynamic sound. Some says there is no difference. It come back to the designer choice of compoonent and circuit design. The point is what is your yardstick to enjoy music, good sound at lowest costs.


----------



## Currawong

I found this interesting comment in another thread that, while referring to opamp rolling in another device, I think helps sum up the difference between the OPA627/LT1364 combo vs the 4562:

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *majkel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@mnemoniak, OPA627 is good but completely not worth its price due to lack of PRaT. It's too slow and boring. And the LM4562 is of course a midrange killer, overdetailed and bass-crazy, wherever I tried it._

 

The sound wasn't anywhere near this description in the Zero, but the 4562s definitely have more recessed mids and/or more prominent bass and treble. I just wish I had some high impedance cans to test with.

 I've ended up ordering the Earth and Sun, which will be interesting when they arrive. So far, I've put the dual OPA627's back in the DAC but left the 4562's in the AMP for comparing with other cans when I get a chance.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I found this interesting comment in another thread that, while referring to opamp rolling in another device, I think helps sum up the difference between the OPA627/LT1364 combo vs the 4562:



 I didn't have quite the same result in the Zero, but the 4562s definitely have more recessed mids and more prominent bass and treble. I just wish I had some high impedance cans to test with.

 I've ended up ordering the Earth and Sun, which will be interesting when they arrive. So far, I've put the dual OPA627's back in the DAC but left the 4562's in the AMP for comparing with other cans when I get a chance._

 

I agree with the recessed mids and prominent bass and treble. To me, the treble is too pronounce and listening to it is fatigue. the same goes to OPA 627, cant really enjoy the music long enuf. This is just my opinion, dont shoot me.


----------



## ccschua

This is the photo showing the OPA sitting nicely within the casing with the extension cables.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree with the recessed mids and prominent bass and treble. To me, the treble is too pronounce and listening to it is fatigue. the same goes to OPA 627, cant really enjoy the music long enuf. This is just my opinion, dont shoot me._

 

Ordered my Earth and Sun, as I too was not entirely thrilled with the OPA627 (even after well over 150 hours of burn-in). I particularly agreed with what you said earlier (in your write-up of the Earth) aboout the harshness in vocals - I had been hearing this as well, and am very excited to hear that with the earth you have found it to be gone! How long did you allow it to burn in? Has anyone given any guidelines for this, or is it just speculation at this point? Hopefully it doesn't take too long to get here! HOORAY FOR CHINA! haha


----------



## alxwang

I am in debating now. I think replace opa627 to sun should be good idea. But replace 2 ne5532 to to earth will be good idea too? Is it worth to do that? 

 Also Mr He told me the B649/D669 in Zero are most likely fake( he said only 1% possible it is real one) - I believe him because I think he know this market in China.


----------



## Penchum

I just wanted to remind everyone that the HDAM "Earth" is the same HDAM as that being sold as the "audio gd" HDAM, which has been sold for a long time now. Here is the info from the audio gd site, that talks about it:

 "OPA – Earth : Our first generation discrete opamp has been sold throughout the world by other marketing means. This discrete opamp utilizes integrated cascode circuit with the schematic based on single channel circuit which is an improvement based on new improved parameters and technology. The sound characteristics is neutral and natural. THD Less than 0.0005%(1KHz), Operating voltage：±9 TO ±25V，Open loop gain：35DB，Operating current：Approx. 28MA（Single Output），Approx. 56MA（Dual Output)"

 Before anyone spends the extra cash on HDAM's for the headphone section, please understand that this has NOT been done previously, so the results are not known, at all.

 Since the performance of the internal headphone amp's Opamps depends upon how well the Opamp in the DAC section performs, we can have "some" expectation, but it is still speculating at this point. I can tell you that in my testing so far, I've had big improvements with the internal headphone amp (with LT1364's) by using the audio-gd "HDAM" in the DAC section. The cleaner/better DAC output translates into improvements for the internal headphone amp as well. This should give everyone some food for thought. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Spend wisely my friends. After all, that's what the Zero is all about.


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *P_1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have mentioned that they are supposed to be the same in my post. However I believe they are produced on different processes(as in silicon fabrication process). There is no mistake about the sound, it is totally different. My ears couldn't stand the lme49720 for long periods of time, they were too harsh/sibilant while the lm4562 are not. Looking at the sample packages you can see that they are produced on seperate lines, you can tell that its even a different machine producing it because the print and markings on the lm4562 are different than the lme49720(not just merely the print of course). 

 From my experience with computer hardware in the winbond bh5/ch5 days its easy to see that this is a similar situation. To give you guys a little history, bh5/ch5 were the best DDR chips back in the day, but one day the bh5 chips were discontinued, and became a legend;ch5 took its place. At face value they appeared to be almost the same chip except that ch5 was on a smaller manufacturing process which was cheaper to produce. However in terms of its overclocking performance, ch5 was far from a worthy successor to its predecessor. This all happened like 6 months before AMD made the switch to socket 939, where boards started appearing(most notably the DFI NF4 series) which could pump enough voltage into these chips and have enough timing adjustments to make the ch5 series shine. 

 In summary, the lme49720 is probably a cheaper version of the lm4562. Also we can't really tell for sure without cracking open the plastic casing around the chip, if you have any spares you should crack them both open and compare the die sizes. The lme49720 will probably be smaller.


 Click on samples and then get the MDIP version(LM4562NA)._

 


 I finally had the chance to perform a serious benchmark with two LME49720 against two LM4562.

 I can assure you pal, they sound EXACTLY the same, in case you still have some doubts about that...

 And, BTW, their sound is excellent. 

 Test were run with both the ZERO (in the DAC) and an opamp based preamp which I built some time ago. In both cases there was no audible difference whatsoever between the LME49720 and the LM4562.

 My opamps came straight from National in Singapore. If you perceive a difference, you probably got some fake opamp (maybe a rebranded NE5532) and compared it against an original one. That wouldn't surprise me at all. The specs of the two opamps are exacly the same for a reason: they are the same.


----------



## ScottieB

Along the lines of what Penchum said, I'm really only using my Zero as a DAC to feed my MKIII, so that's as far as my testing will go. I'm calling it done after this though (of course all of us here know I may be speaking too soon, heh) whether I prefer it over the OPA627 or not.


----------



## direcow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Before anyone spends the extra cash on HDAM's for the headphone section, please understand that this has NOT been done previously, so the results are not know, at all._

 

This is where I'm puzzled to - so I'm just stopping at getting 1 HDAM for my DAC for now...


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Before anyone spends the extra cash on HDAM's for the headphone section, please understand that this has NOT been done previously, so the results are not known, at all._

 

I thought about buying two "Sun" modules, and using the free "Earth" modules in the headphone amplifier. But I've decided against it. I'm off to demo some Stax gear in the near future, so there is a good chance the headphone amplifier in the Zero will then be redundant.

 I'll still be ordering the one "Sun" module, so should be able to post up my thoughts on the sound signature. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 "To burn in, just switch on the ZERO will do. and the recommended burn in is 300 hours, that is longer than to receive my opa earth."_

 

I have to ask, why do you believe it can be properly burned-in with only power applied? Thanks!


----------



## taso89

My LM4562's are coming in tomorrow, and the OPA627's came today. I'm very happy with the OPA627 and can't wait for it to burn-in. The first thing I noticed was more detail but also less NOISE at extreme volumes. LT1469 in the DAC had significantly more noise at high volumes.

 If the green preamp light is on and I have music on, do I need to have phones plugged in for burn-in to occur?


----------



## AudioPhewl

^No. But then again, I'm one who'd go against the grain and say that "burn-in" doesn't take place with ICs. Capacitors, sure, but not ICs.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## taso89

I don't wanna believe in it but for the first half-hour I did notice some weird variations in channel balance, then the bass disappearing, etc. It's settled down now though.

 I hear 100 hours is typical burn-in for an IC?


----------



## AudioPhewl

1s is typical burn-in for an IC IMO.

 Think of the CPU in your computer - it's far more delicate than an opamp. It runs at speeds of 3ghz or above, covering a wide-range of possible temperatures, and does a heap more critical work than a simple opamp.

 Despite all my years as an overclocker, I've never known a CPU that has improved with age or use. They work from the off, and do so without any problem. Opamps are the same, IMO.

 The differences you believe you heard could be attributed to the change in temperature - opamps generally run quite a bit warmer than room temperature.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_1s is typical burn-in for an IC IMO.

 Think of the CPU in your computer - it's far more delicate than an opamp. It runs at speeds of 3ghz or above, covering a wide-range of possible temperatures, and does a heap more critical work than a simple opamp.

 Despite all my years as an overclocker, I've never known a CPU that has improved with age or use. They work from the off, and do so without any problem. Opamps are the same, IMO.

 The differences you believe you heard could be attributed to the change in temperature - opamps generally run quite a bit warmer than room temperature.

 ~Phewl._

 

You are right. Burn in makes no sense at all for opamps , but sometimes it makes believers happy, therefore it's good somehow...


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *taso89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't wanna believe in it but for the first half-hour I did notice some weird variations in channel balance, then the bass disappearing, etc. It's settled down now though.

 I hear 100 hours is typical burn-in for an IC?_

 

What? Who said that? Why not 110 hours instead?






 Sorry, no need for burn in with ICs. Silicon burned a lot already for a few million years.


----------



## Penchum

From testing so many Opamps, the ones that seem to have the most variation (still small though) are the ones that are two single DIPS on an adapter. The very small AU packages don't share this same odd property though.

 Another good reason for "maturing" all Opamps, is so that both believers and non-believers can understand and believe the results you have come up with, when testing Opamps. It leaves no room for doubt in their minds. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 HDAMs for sure, need time to mature. Since they are "working" the signal, I'm under the impression they should be working on something when "maturing" them. I have not heard what percentage of their operation is only "heat affected", but I'm still researching that one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I did read somewhere that it was thought to be 300 hours for burn-in, but the audio-gd I got, seemed to take a little more than half of that. When I did the "cap" mod, that silly cap took longer to form up than the whole HDAM did! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh well, I should have put it on at the beginning anyway!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *taso89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My LM4562's are coming in tomorrow, and the OPA627's came today. I'm very happy with the OPA627 and can't wait for it to burn-in. The first thing I noticed was more detail but also less NOISE at extreme volumes. LT1469 in the DAC had significantly more noise at high volumes.

 If the green preamp light is on and I have music on, do I need to have phones plugged in for burn-in to occur?_

 

If you are using the pre-amp function (volume controlled by Zero, green light on) then both DAC and Headphone amp Opamps are involved, so you are good to go.


----------



## andru

Received my head fi zero in 6 days from Lawrence, very satisfied with it!

 I don't notice the channel imbalance at all even at low volumes so it's not a problem whatsoever. Came with an Australian power plug as well which was a nice touch


----------



## wcp6

I have a question as I am fairly new to amps (read: never owned one and my zero has arrived in american customs earlier today.)

 I have a pair of DT770's that are burning in right now, but they are loud enough for my use with the windows volume only at 20. If I use the zero, then, I assume I will have to keep the volume very low? I have also heard that it is best to run digital with 100% volume to stop any degradation of the digital signal itself. Is it going to significantly lower sound quality?

 For some reason, both my HD515's and DT770's get VERY loud out of my standard headphone out on my Razer Barracuda AC-1 card, but I also noticed it on my previous onboard realtek with my HD515's (recently got 770's, the onboard is toast)

 It's just seems strange to me and I want to make sure nothing will be degraded due to the 80 ohm impedance only of the DT770. The HD515's have only 30ohm impedance 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 thanks for any advice


----------



## NumpXP

is that the toroidal wire that causes the vibration in zero? what's its function btw? 

 and lastly, my usb/spdif converter is just capable of 48KHz 24bit convertion, am i losing much compared of that 192KHz?

 thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 edited: Oh, the toroidal wire is the transformer. So i suppose it convert AC to DC, am i right?


----------



## decayed.cell

Come to think of it the SVDAC05 is sold by wsz0304 for only 1 USD more. Probably not the right place to post but how does the headphone amp work in this?


----------



## Enthusia

This thread is not to post your boasting and comparisons with the Zero Dac. If you really think there are other dacs that are better at around the same affordable price, then good for you! Start a new thread and do a review, other than that, let's stay on topic.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Enthusia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This thread is not to post your boasting and comparisons with the Zero Dac. If you really think there are other dacs that are better at around the same affordable price, then good for you! Start a new thread and do a review, other than that, let's stay on topic._

 

Andrea again. Same ole' Sheit.


----------



## gavszero

My babies were delivered today , a boy and a girl .. Ok jokes aside , my OPA-SUN & OPA Earth arrived from Audio-GD . I got an email from Kingwa on Monday and arrived today Friday with Priority DHL and was well packaged . 


 First thing I did was to slot in the SUN to start burn in .. I made sure everything was ok by testing a CD and through in Steely Dan Two Against Nature. Immediately I noticed the cymbals , Hi Hat open and closed , Snare drum was so much more clearer and very Natural . Bass extension was also improved over the OPA627 . It's still early days as I have only 10 hours on this module . I'm confident that these Discreet opamps will be staying in my Zero , it's just too good to compared to the IC alternative . If anything I might have to get a second Zero for the Earth and switch between the two depending on the music i'm playing . I could choose the Earth for warm natural and the SUN for more Dynamic sound ..


 When I got my Zero I burned in the Zero with the stock opamps ( OPA2406 ) and found it better then my soundcard ( Terratec DMX6fire & Terratec DMXfire 1024 ), and possible better then any sound card analog ouput . So for anyone on a budget this will be better then your soundcard .


 I then borrowed the OPA627's of a friend and was a hugh difference over the stock , found it much more natural to the stock opamp. Going by many in this Forum have found this opamp to be the one to have other then the Hdams but are expensive for what they offer compared to free samples . Actually it'll be better to get your Hdam order in as Audio -GD have extended their 2 for 1 offer , you won't regret it .. 


 When my LM4562 samples arrived I slotted them in and left the unit on my Pay TV Set top Box on the Music channel to settle in these new opamps and found them to be very Dynamic . It was as if I switch on the loudness swicth on older amplifiers . The bottom and top end seemed to be boosted giving a sence of a larger sound stage . With Steely Dan I found this opamp it was like shooting the snare drum into my face it was so forward .If you had laid back speakers this might be a good opamp to give them a lift , good thing about these is you can get 3 samples for free ..

 I'll leave my OPA-SUN in to burn in for another 4 days to get to that 100 hour mark , i'll then hook up with my friends Zero with the earth installed and will do a switch on the fly using 2 inputs on a preamp to test the difference . I find when I stop to swap opamps it's harder to fine a small difference if there was any ..

 I have to say inside my zero now looks like a Chrsitmas tree with the added 2 green LED's on the OPA-SUN module .. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I know most here are looking for a budget unit , I've gone one step further and bought the Buffer 3 to have better impedance matching between the Zero and preamp to further improve . I've read nothing but good reviews about buffers and Audio - GD has this new model .. See how it goes anyway , should get it next week ..

 I'll have to do the LED mod on my zero , when i'm burning in the hdams in my room , I don't need a light , those LEDs are so bright . I've bought some 5.6K ohm resistors to replace ..

 I haven't done much with the amp section as I don't have any decent headphones to take full advantage of this amp . Will be looking forward in picking up a pair of HD650's in the near future ...

 Anyway I'm off to listen to some more music .. Just can't stop going through my collection since you lot got me addicted to the Zero .. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Gavin ...


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gavszero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My babies were delivered today , Snip

 Gavin ..._

 

Nicely done Gavin!

 I'm glad the "Sun" sounds like a winner too! The LED mod is so highly recommended! At one time, I had both of my Zero's running at night, and it was so "BLUE" in this room! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've modded them both and it has helped a bunch.

 Keep us informed on the side by side comparison you do. It will be interesting to hear your take on how they differ. Thanks!


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have to ask, why do you believe it can be properly burned-in with only power applied? Thanks!_

 

Hi,

 This may not apply to all the OPA, but opa earth and sun is exception.

 If you check through OPA Sun/Earth circuits from the audio-gd website, it is in Class A. In electronic circuit, there shouldn't be distinction between power and signal. Signal is only used to control the amount of output and the signal is working always with some bias current. Only Class B or D and others has no output signal (perhaps due to efficiency). Only when signal is apply, there will be changes in the output. The flow of bias current is sufficient to burn in the electronic components.

 I hope to explain but I may miss some points. Hope to hear your finding regarding this matter too.

 rgds


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Andrea again. Same ole' Sheit._

 

have u misfire, hope it end up on Anrea. I smell andrea and he was gone.


----------



## ccschua

With regards to headphone OPA, I have to say it again that I am no head-philer. I merely convey the message by the designer in his DIY discussion forum. Chinese though. However I hope when the item arrive in Malaysia, I can get some of the guys to do a review with discrete opamp.

 That is just some of us, ZERO TEAM. 

http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/616812/+1120


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With regards to headphone OPA, I have to say it again that I am no head-philer. I merely convey the message by the designer in his DIY discussion forum. Chinese though. However I hope when the item arrive in Malaysia, I can get some of the guys to do a review with discrete opamp.

 That is just some of us, ZERO TEAM. 

Lowyat.NET -> The ZERO DAC + Headamp (NO 56K)_

 

Yep. I just sent them an email asking for prices, so we'll see if I can afford to get a couple. The audio-gd HDAM I have, is a real pleasure and has done great things for my first Zero. Now, my second Zero is upset and wants the earth unit I think.


----------



## ccschua

I hope I have not talked about the OPA Earth and Sun like the 3rd Jesus coming.


----------



## NumpXP

i don't even know about the 2nd.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hope I have not talked about the OPA Earth and Sun like the 3rd Jesus coming._

 

Ow, I don't think so. Discrete modules in one form or another, have been around for quite some time, and their performance in "general" has always been very good. For the price they seem to be asking right now, this appears to be the time when those of us on a tight budget, can acquire a couple without breaking the bank. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 With the audio-gd working so well for me, I can hardly resist getting the "earth" model.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *NumpXP* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_is that the toroidal wire that causes the vibration in zero? what's its function btw? 

 and lastly, my usb/spdif converter is just capable of 48KHz 24bit convertion, am i losing much compared of that 192KHz?

 thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 edited: Oh, the toroidal wire is the transformer. So i suppose it convert AC to DC, am i right?_

 

For the vibration, take a look and make sure there is a pad of some kind already installed under the transformer, and usually there is one on top too. If that is good, then check to make sure the bolt that secures it to the case, is tight enough. Sometimes, even a little turn tighter will eliminate any vibration. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Many of us with sound cards that will go to the higher settings, have found that the 44khz at 16bit (CD standard) still sounds the best, so we use that lower setting. I think you'll be just fine with these settings too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Give them a try and see what sounds best for your setup.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ow, I don't think so. Discrete modules in one form or another, have been around for quite some time, and their performance in "general" has always been very good. For the price they seem to be asking right now, this appears to be the time when those of us on a tight budget, can acquire a couple without breaking the bank. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 With the audio-gd working so well for me, I can hardly resist getting the "earth" model. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well the OPA-Earth is quite similar to HDAM in terms of sound output. Only difference is the parameters used and the method of construction (earth wire, pcb, etc). This was mentioned earlier. Dont equate OPA Sun with HDAM.

 Whereas OPA Sun will sound slightly different, more dynamic and responsive.

 I would hope u would get the free 1 to 1 promo, and give us your review on OPA Sun too.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Many of us with sound cards that will go to the higher settings, have found that the 44khz at 16bit (CD standard) still sounds the best, so we use that lower setting. I think you'll be just fine with these settings too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Give them a try and see what sounds best for your setup. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It really depends on the source. If you're using CDs (or mp3s, FLAC, whathaveyou sourced from CDs) then 44.1 is the best - you won't notice any benefit from upsampling to any other rate - in fact depending on the hardware you may notice a negative impact. That said, if you have music that is SOURCED at a higher rate (like DVD-A, SACD, or flacs from a place like Hi-Def Tape Transfers, or perhaps some hi-rate vinyl rips (my personal favorite 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) then you'd be missing out if your card can't go up to at least 96khz/24bit. That's why I use bit-perfect out from my x-fi. Switches the clock to the proper rate on the fly. So if I'm playing a DVD-A, it switches to 96khz, until a CD is played - then it will switch back to 44.1khz. Make sense?


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gavszero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My babies were delivered today , a boy and a girl .. Ok jokes aside , my OPA-SUN & OPA Earth arrived from Audio-GD . I got an email from Kingwa on Monday and arrived today Friday with Priority DHL and was well packaged . snip..._

 

Hey there - thanks for the info. Definitely awaiting your thoughts on the Earth. Based on the write-ups I like the sound of the Earth better - more neutral, for a pristine feed to my MKIII... just like the sound of that...

 Anyway, was curious as to where you are located. Don't think I've seen anyone from the US actually receive their units yet, and I'm itching to know how long to expect to wait...


----------



## ccschua

From the audio-gd forum, he seems quite busy with the order, at least given that we have completed the order for 10 sets here in Malaysia.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From the audio-gd forum, he seems quite busy with the order, at least given that we have completed the order for 10 sets here in Malaysia._

 

Oh well geez... thanks a LOT!


----------



## kejar31

Well, I ordered the OPA-Sun + the free OPA-Earth today. When I get mine in I will be happy to review them.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kejar31* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I ordered the OPA-Sun + the free OPA-Earth today. When I get mine in I will be happy to review them._

 

I placed the same order today 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Though, after reading today's posts in this thread, I'm wondering whether I'd have got a free OPA-Sun if I bought the cheaper OPA-Earth...

 Might have done myself out of $8 there. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## kejar31

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I placed the same order today 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Though, after reading today's posts in this thread, I'm wondering whether I'd have got a free OPA-Sun if I bought the cheaper OPA-Earth...

 Might have done myself out of $8 there. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 

Hum, I don't know. Did someone in the thread order the Earth and get the Sun for free?? Oh well either way its only 8 bucks.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kejar31* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hum, I don't know. Did someone in the thread order the Earth and get the Sun for free?? Oh well either way its only 8 bucks._

 

Nah I asked for the Earth with Sun and they charged me the higher price. So it's buy-one-get-one but you gotta buy at the higher price.


----------



## AudioPhewl

^Scottie - cheers for clarifying 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I didn't mind paying the higher price, but it's nice to hear I've not overpaid 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From testing so many Opamps, the ones that seem to have the most variation (still small though) are the ones that are two single DIPS on an adapter. The very small AU packages don't share this same odd property though.

 Another good reason for "maturing" all Opamps, is so that both believers and non-believers can understand and believe the results you have come up with, when testing Opamps. It leaves no room for doubt in their minds. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 HDAMs for sure, need time to mature. Since they are "working" the signal, I'm under the impression they should be working on something when "maturing" them. I have not heard what percentage of their operation is only "heat affected", but I'm still researching that one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I did read somewhere that it was thought to be 300 hours for burn-in, but the audio-gd I got, seemed to take a little more than half of that. *When I did the "cap" mod, that silly cap took longer to form up than the whole HDAM did!*





 Oh well, I should have put it on at the beginning anyway! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I don't remember reading anything about a cap mod, Penchum. Is there something I should be doing with my soldering iron once my units arrive from Audio-GD? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## kejar31

I still use the amp on my Zero and currently have the LT1364 installed. Should I consider putting the Sun in the DAC and the Earth in the AMP?? Or would this not work. Oh yea, I will mostly be using my HD580's with it but also my K501 sometimes as well.


----------



## ccschua

Just continue to burn the earth (switching on ZERO only) and found the OPA earth is slightly warm.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sushi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Warm can have many different shades of sense in sound... please develop._

 

someone from Mars landed in Earth. Let me play you some Tom Jones.


----------



## ScottieB

OK so now that my order for the Earth/Sun is placed, of course my mind has started going... I remember earlier someone had wrapped the entire thing in electric tape to avoid shorting in the case. For whatever reason that bothers me a bit - maybe trapping hot air or something? I dunno but.. what if I made like an electrical tape "mattress" for it on the floor of the case? I don't plan to move my Zero around so that should suffice, no? Just so it can lay there with no metal-to-metal contact, but at the same time not be in a blanket of sorts.


----------



## viscosity

has anyone received and/or tested these new opamps?


----------



## taso89

^ Which ones are you referring to? The earth and sun are not opamps. If you mean LM4562's, a couple of people have including me just today. Didn't like the sound, put the OPA627 and LT1364's back


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^Scottie - cheers for clarifying 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I didn't mind paying the higher price, but it's nice to hear I've not overpaid 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.



 I don't remember reading anything about a cap mod, Penchum. Is there something I should be doing with my soldering iron once my units arrive from Audio-GD? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 

For the new ones (Earth & Sun), I'm not sure. The audio-gd version, you could mod by adding a cap between pins 4 and 8, to improve it's output. There is a write up about it on the Burson Audio Website.

 PP had brought this to my attention some time back, when he was going to buy one from Burson Audio, then (gladly) found the less expensive HDAM from Lawrence. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 He has done this mod, and he is done burning it in. From his notes sent to me, this cap can take 240-300 hours to form, so I may have another day or so to go. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We'll have to get clarification from the folks at audio-gd, as to whether the Earth and Sun can be modded this way. It's a complete unknown right now.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK so now that my order for the Earth/Sun is placed, of course my mind has started going... I remember earlier someone had wrapped the entire thing in electric tape to avoid shorting in the case. For whatever reason that bothers me a bit - maybe trapping hot air or something? I dunno but.. what if I made like an electrical tape "mattress" for it on the floor of the case? I don't plan to move my Zero around so that should suffice, no? Just so it can lay there with no metal-to-metal contact, but at the same time not be in a blanket of sorts._

 

I have the audio-gd version wrapped in electrical tape, until I can find a better solution. I checked on it this morning (it's been running 24/7 for a week now) and it hasn't been hot and the tape is not heated up.

 This may not work at all on the newer ones (Earth & Sun). Time for those creative juices to get flowing and come up with a nicer method!


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For the new ones (Earth & Sun), I'm not sure. The audio-gd version, you could mod by adding a cap between pins 4 and 8, to improve it's output. There is a write up about it on the Burson Audio Website._

 

Oh right. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sounds a little odd to me, as - from memory - they are V+ and V- pins. I'll have to go read up on the Burson website... after Star Trek has finished... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yes, I'm sad. And I don't care 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have the audio-gd version wrapped in electrical tape, until I can find a better solution. I checked on it this morning (it's been running 24/7 for a week now) and it hasn't been hot and the tape is not heated up.

 This may not work at all on the newer ones (Earth & Sun). Time for those creative juices to get flowing and come up with a nicer method! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm thinking of tacking one side down on to an old credit card, then into the case. I've got a hot-glue-gun somewhere, which would be ideal.

 If they don't run hot, then using insulation tape shouldn't yield any problems. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## Currawong

I think what was said earlier about the LM4562's sounding like the loudness button being switched on on an old amplifier is correct. I regret not being able to test if they were good opamps for very mid-forward cans like K701's.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh right. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sounds a little odd to me, as - from memory - they are V+ and V- pins. I'll have to go read up on the Burson website... after Star Trek has finished... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yes, I'm sad. And I don't care 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm thinking of tacking one side down on to an old credit card, then into the case. I've got a hot-glue-gun somewhere, which would be ideal.

 If they don't run hot, then using insulation tape shouldn't yield any problems. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 

Gotta have that dose of Star Trek each day. It's unavoidable. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was wondering if heat shrink tape would work well for this situation, if heat isn't an issue?


----------



## ccschua

If u refer to post #5332 (ref post), I actually applied 1 layer of white stickers large enough for OPA to sit it. If I tie the cable to the headphone cable, it should bind it. there is another layer of white sticker behind the OPA (side pcb )


----------



## ccschua

oops. can someone guide me how to post photo. I seem to attach thumbnail which is too small to see, instead of full page photo.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Gotta have that dose of Star Trek each day. It's unavoidable. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I was wondering if heat shrink tape would work well for this situation, if heat isn't an issue?_

 

Star Trek - The Next Generation. It's only shown here once per week, starting in the early hours of a Saturday morning. Typically 1-2am, today it started at 12am.

 Insulating the unit seems simple enough, it's devising a way to keep it mounted out of harms way. A couple of holes drilled in the base plate of the DAC, and a cable tie... that could do it.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If u refer to post #5332 (ref post), I actually applied 1 layer of white stickers large enough for OPA to sit it. If I tie the cable to the headphone cable, it should bind it. there is another layer of white sticker behind the OPA (side pcb )_

 

Anything along those lines should work fine, IMO. Personally, I'd like to see the unit itself actually tacked down do something - it'd be a horrible mistake if one were to forget about the loose component when moving gear.

 I wonder if a small magnet glued on to a plastic credit card could be the best all-round solution? Or even a piece of velcro...

 ~Phewl


----------



## kejar31

I was thinking of just taking some cardboard, folding up four ledges, taping them together and then velcroing it down to the case between the amp and dac board. Then you should just be able to rest the Sun or Earth down into it. It won't look pretty but it should avoid heat and shorting issues.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Star Trek - The Next Generation. It's only shown here once per week, starting in the early hours of a Saturday morning. Typically 1-2am, today it started at 12am.

 Insulating the unit seems simple enough, it's devising a way to keep it mounted out of harms way. A couple of holes drilled in the base plate of the DAC, and a cable tie... that could do it.



 Anything along those lines should work fine, IMO. Personally, I'd like to see the unit itself actually tacked down do something - it'd be a horrible mistake if one were to forget about the loose component when moving gear.

 I wonder if a small magnet glued on to a plastic credit card could be the best all-round solution? Or even a piece of velcro...

 ~Phewl_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kejar31* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was thinking of just taking some cardboard, folding up four ledges, taping them together and then velcroing it down to the case between the amp and dac board. Then you should just be able to rest the Sun or Earth down into it. It won't look pretty but it should avoid heat and shorting issues._

 

I'd vote for a method that included Velcro. It would insulate and fix the HDAM in one spot. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll look around and find my stick-on Velcro, and see if I can come up with a decent way. Thanks!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If u refer to post #5332 (ref post), I actually applied 1 layer of white stickers large enough for OPA to sit it. If I tie the cable to the headphone cable, it should bind it. there is another layer of white sticker behind the OPA (side pcb )_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_oops. can someone guide me how to post photo. I seem to attach thumbnail which is too small to see, instead of full page photo._

 

You are right. I clicked the PIC and it is big enough to see. So you have it sort of contained within that area, which is a simple but good idea.

 My entire roll of Velcro has come up missing, so I may not get to try that method right now. I have a few other ideas I'm going to explore during this weekend.


----------



## Scottyyy

Help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My Zero has stopped working. I turned it on today, as normal, but I can't get sound to play. I'm using the optical cable from my onboard Realtek sound card. I've reinstalled the drivers for the sound card, and I've looked through the settings in case anything was muted. It all seems fine - it's the same as it has always been since I got it.

 It's not the headphones because I tested them through the analogue outputs on the sound card and they play fine.

 One thing I noticed is that the optical cable sometimes gets caught in the side of the drawer (I have the Zero sitting on a drawer where a scanner would normally go, you can slide it in and out - it's like a tray more than a drawer really) so it has a few kinks in it. The plastic shield isn't broken on the cable or anything, it's just a little bent. I don't have another optical cable or coxial cable to try though.

 Anyone have any ideas what it might be?


----------



## wcp6

Optical cables have to transmit light so they're not up for much abuse.. that's probably the problem. I would go to radio shack and buy a cheap cable to see if it still works, if not try to email the seller.

 It's also possible your optical out died on your card but pretty unlikely.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Scottyyy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My Zero has stopped working. I turned it on today, as normal, but I can't get sound to play. I'm using the optical cable from my onboard Realtek sound card. I've reinstalled the drivers for the sound card, and I've looked through the settings in case anything was muted. It all seems fine - it's the same as it has always been since I got it.

 It's not the headphones because I tested them through the analogue outputs on the sound card and they play fine.

 One thing I noticed is that the optical cable sometimes gets caught in the side of the drawer (I have the Zero sitting on a drawer where a scanner would normally go, you can slide it in and out - it's like a tray more than a drawer really) so it has a few kinks in it. The plastic shield isn't broken on the cable or anything, it's just a little bent. I don't have another optical cable or coxial cable to try though.

 Anyone have any ideas what it might be?_

 

Do you have a coax source you can try? You'll get away with using a standard RCA lead in the short term...

 As said, optical "cables" don't take abuse too well. Kinks is not good at all.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## alxwang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can only say that there is evidence enough that the Zeros are built rather hastily and carelessly. Mine is that way. Other chinese DACs that are even cheaper look much more reliably assembled, with a more consistent choice of parts too._

 

You get what you paid.


----------



## alxwang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Scottyyy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My Zero has stopped working. I turned it on today, as normal, but I can't get sound to play. I'm using the optical cable from my onboard Realtek sound card. I've reinstalled the drivers for the sound card, and I've looked through the settings in case anything was muted. It all seems fine - it's the same as it has always been since I got it.

 It's not the headphones because I tested them through the analogue outputs on the sound card and they play fine.

 One thing I noticed is that the optical cable sometimes gets caught in the side of the drawer (I have the Zero sitting on a drawer where a scanner would normally go, you can slide it in and out - it's like a tray more than a drawer really) so it has a few kinks in it. The plastic shield isn't broken on the cable or anything, it's just a little bent. I don't have another optical cable or coxial cable to try though.

 Anyone have any ideas what it might be?_

 

Another hint: I got this problem before. Check the sound card setting about whether it is doing optical output too. My windows xp sometime just did that way. I have to switch optical output on then reboot.


----------



## Scottyyy

Thanks for the help guys. It's definitely the optical cable that's the problem. I've just tied the coax with a standard RCA cable and it's working fine now. 

 Looks like a need a new optical cable.


----------



## alxwang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Guess so, but, in my opinion, this aspect of build quality should never be sacrificed, at any level of price. Better sacrifice anything else, or increase the final price, IMO. At any rate, there are a couple of other chinese brands that don't seem to have to take such ways in order to keep the cost low and the performance high._

 

In an ideally world yes you are right.

 Just think about automobile business:
 You never blame Ford explorer has more problem than Honda Pilot because the price different, right?
 I think a lot guys here choose Zero because cheap and easy to mod.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alxwang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You get what you paid._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alxwang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In an ideally world yes you are right.

 Just think about automobile business:
 You never blame Ford explorer has more problem than Honda Pilot because the price different, right?
 I think a lot guys here choose Zero because cheap and easy to mod._

 

I wouldn't be to quick to judge. There are a great many things about the Zero that make it one heck of a bargain. The very large majority of users here have commented the build quality of their's is nice. My two Zero's, bought at different times, both have a better than average build quality.

 As many users have pointed out, the Zero isn't the next "Killer DAC". It is a DAC/Amp with much flexibility on how it's used. It has a nice look to it, it isn't full of plastic or Plexiglas, and it looks like a piece of stereo equipment.
 There is very little to dislike, unless there is a reason to dislike.

 Be careful of users with very few posts, making negative comments or selling the virtues of Opamp sonic qualities. They are usually Andrea, trying to stir up a problem that doesn't exist.


----------



## AudioPhewl

I'm possibly better suited to comment on the build quality than other members who've only owned one unit - I've had the experience of two.

 The physical quality of the faceplate, chassis and case, is very good. Tolerances could be better, the screws at the rear of the casing head home at a distinct angle. But other than that, it's all first-rate. Design is sturdy, and everything has a solid feel to it.

 One unit arrived in perfect working order. The other, did not. Soldering quality isn't perfect - it isn't superb, or even marvellous. For the most part, it's more than adequate, but on both of my boxes has it been "slightly sloppy", or "rushed" for want of a better word.

 But, for the most part, it isn't an issue. General construction is sturdy, the components are securely soldered into place, and my gripes are largely to do with the less than amazing clean-up of flux, and the odd solder joint where, as seen by the tail of the solder, it could have been neater.

 But, at the end of the day, it's £85 delivered. Sound quality is superb from-the-go. It has a lovely, detailed, lively and warm sound. It'll accept coaxial or optical inputs, the controls have a solid feel to them, and it's got a headphone amplifier included in the price.

 Finishing touches could be slightly better. Overall construction quality could be improved with very little time or effort. But on the whole, it's better than it needs to be, and comes in at a *very* keen price-point.

 Just don't get me started on my experiences of after-sales support with one particular vendor... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## alxwang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wouldn't be to quick to judge. There are a great many things about the Zero that make it one heck of a bargain. The very large majority of users here have commented the build quality of their's is nice. My two Zero's, bought at different times, both have a better than average build quality.

 As many users have pointed out, the Zero isn't the next "Killer DAC". It is a DAC/Amp with much flexibility on how it's used. It has a nice look to it, it isn't full of plastic or Plexiglas, and it looks like a piece of stereo equipment.
 There is very little to dislike, unless there is a reason to dislike.

 Be careful of users with very few posts, making negative comments or selling the virtues of Opamp sonic qualities. They are usually Andrea, trying to stir up a problem that doesn't exist._

 

Do not get me wrong. I like my Zero. I think it is one of my best purchase and I am very happy with it.
 The only comment about Zero I have is if the case can be stronger should be nice.
 What I am trying to say is if you spend 200$ on something you should not blame it does not have same quality as something at 1000$ price tag. And this happen everywhere - China, US, etc.

 Actually I am thinking to buy a another Zero to do put a tube base AMP into it(remove the ss amp board inside totally). I saw some web page about this project already very nice!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alxwang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do not get me wrong. I like my Zero. I think it is one of my best purchase and I am very happy with it.
 The only comment about Zero I have is if the case can be stronger should be nice.
 What I am trying to say is if you spend 200$ on something you should not blame it does not have same quality as something at 1000$ price tag. And this happen everywhere - China, US, etc.

 Actually I am thinking to buy a another Zero to do put a tube base AMP into it(remove the ss amp board inside totally). I saw some web page about this project already very nice!_

 

Hi alex,

 You might want to try adding a tube buffer after the analog out...like the Yaqin or a MF X10 V3. I have a heavily modified X10 V3 after the Zero in my Head Fi setup and it makes for a nice combination between the Zero and LD MK III with the added benefit of leaving the Zero intact. Just thought I'd throw that suggestion out there for consideration 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Peete.

 PS Back from Vacation.......on with the Zero show


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Don't feed the troll....*cough...Andrea*

 Peete.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alxwang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do not get me wrong. I like my Zero. I think it is one of my best purchase and I am very happy with it.
 The only comment about Zero I have is if the case can be stronger should be nice.
 What I am trying to say is if you spend 200$ on something you should not blame it does not have same quality as something at 1000$ price tag. And this happen everywhere - China, US, etc.

 Actually I am thinking to buy a another Zero to do put a tube base AMP into it(remove the ss amp board inside totally). I saw some web page about this project already very nice!_

 

No problem. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll have to admit that the "tube" mod has it's fascination factor for sure.

 I can't help thinking that a nice $150-$200 tube amp, with pre-amp function like the MKII or MKIII has, would get you a better "tube" sound in the end. These MK series amps use all 4 tubes (2 power, 2 driver) in the output, which translates to a very nice "tube" sound in my mini-system, here in the Lab/Office. I'll roll in different tubes like Mullards, if I want extra tube yummieness. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The cost is comparable, so I think it's worth checking into. The side benefit, is you gain a nice tube amp to listen too, whenever you want. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Which ever way, keep us informed. Following someone else's path is always a learning thing, and everyone gains from it.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't feed the troll....*cough...Andrea*

 Peete._

 

Welcome back PP!

 Aside from the obvious unwanted visits, we've been having a good time with all the experimentation going on with HDAMs and some Opamps. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Pretty soon, we'll have some folks posting about their upgrades to the Zero and see how everything turns out. With the audio-gd HDAM being the same unit as the new "Earth", and the "Sun" being the new "Fun" HDAM, it's going to be very interesting reading the opinions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Gotta love the lower costs too! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I hope to test the "Sun" X2 in the headphone amp section in a few weeks. That should be a blast!


----------



## alxwang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi alex,

 You might want to try adding a tube buffer after the analog out...like the Yaqin or a MF X10 V3. I have a heavily modified X10 V3 after the Zero in my Head Fi setup and it makes for a nice combination between the Zero and LD MK III with the added benefit of leaving the Zero intact. Just thought I'd throw that suggestion out there for consideration 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.

 PS Back from Vacation.......on with the Zero show 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 MF X10 V3? I never heard about it? Can you point out some where I can get more information? Thanks.


----------



## alxwang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No problem. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll have to admit that the "tube" mod has it's fascination factor for sure.

 I can't help thinking that a nice $150-$200 tube amp, with pre-amp function like the MKII or MKIII has, would get you a better "tube" sound in the end. These MK series amps use all 4 tubes (2 power, 2 driver) in the output, which translates to a very nice "tube" sound in my mini-system, here in the Lab/Office. I'll roll in different tubes like Mullards, if I want extra tube yummieness. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The cost is comparable, so I think it's worth checking into. The side benefit, is you gain a nice tube amp to listen too, whenever you want. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Which ever way, keep us informed. Following someone else's path is always a learning thing, and everyone gains from it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I already use Zero and DV332 together(and sun+2 earth mod will be done soon). The reason I want enhance the headphone amp of zero is because I need a all in on unit for my office. I can not have something too big or too eyeball attractive over there. Zero is prefect. I am think about to get another zero then replace headphone amp totally. Ideally will be tube based but good solid ss will be fine too. Also a USB mod will be done too. I am still researching - any suggestion or DIY site?. 

 I used to think about get a pico or something like it. But I feel if this mod can be done well maybe less money can bring me better performance.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alxwang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_MF X10 V3? I never heard about it? Can you point out some where I can get more information? Thanks._

 

Should be mf for musical fidelity.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alxwang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I already use Zero and DV332 together(and sun+2 earth mod will be done soon). The reason I want enhance the headphone amp of zero is because I need a all in on unit for my office. I can not have something too big or too eyeball attractive over there. Zero is prefect. I am think about to get another zero then replace headphone amp totally. Ideally will be tube based but good solid ss will be fine too. Also a USB mod will be done too. I am still researching - any suggestion or DIY site?. 

 I used to think about get a pico or something like it. But I feel if this mod can be done well maybe less money can bring me better performance._

 

The Musical Fidelity X10 V3 buffer. Don't waste any money on the X-PSU that goes with it though...Rock Grotto has way better solution for the power supply at half the cost of the overpriced rip off X-PSU (can you tell I bought one ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )

 As for the Zero for the office.. adding USB functionality along with a H/AMP revamp might be a little to tricky considering the space available in the current chassis and the added complexity of the additional circuitry. Maybe a USB to SPDIF converter module would serve you better at the office if you are determined to stick with the Zero. The H/Amp section can be upgraded to quite a startling degree but details of that entire process are forthcoming as Pench and I have hinted previously. Hang in there, only a couple more weeks until all the testing is over with. 

 On another note I don't think it's possible to add tube circuitry and keep the H/AMP section, there simply isn't enough room in the stock chassis. Go to a standard 19 inch rack mount and that picture changes considerably but then so does the complexity/cost of doing so require a great deal more skill and money to complete it properly (more $$ than it cost originally almost)...so....

 Personally I avoid USB anything like the plague when it come to Audio...it simply has to many limitations and I like to avoid any unnecessary conversions in the signal chain ...that's just my own philosophy though.If all you ever listen to is 16/44 then USB is fine I suppose...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I still don't like USB for Audio use
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Welcome back PP!

 Aside from the obvious unwanted visits, we've been having a good time with all the experimentation going on with HDAMs and some Opamps. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Pretty soon, we'll have some folks posting about their upgrades to the Zero and see how everything turns out. With the audio-gd HDAM being the same unit as the new "Earth", and the "Sun" being the new "Fun" HDAM, it's going to be very interesting reading the opinions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Gotta love the lower costs too! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I hope to test the "Sun" X2 in the headphone amp section in a few weeks. That should be a blast! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks Pench,

 I too am interested in the Earth and Sun 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 With a few of those modules on the way (4 of them) I should be able to add my 2 cents, within a month or two with the other DAC project on hand (don't ask, please don't ask...damn thing threw me a curve ball today...need to fashion a metal bracket for the power on/off switch so the damn button doesn't doesn't stick out a quarter mile) Blah blah...blah... blah blah blah LOL....that's what I get for buying the cheapest chassis I can find 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ah well at least I'm reviving my metal working skills however primitive they might be 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alxwang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I already use Zero and DV332 together(and sun+2 earth mod will be done soon). The reason I want enhance the headphone amp of zero is because I need a all in on unit for my office. I can not have something too big or too eyeball attractive over there. Zero is prefect. I am think about to get another zero then replace headphone amp totally. Ideally will be tube based but good solid ss will be fine too. Also a USB mod will be done too. I am still researching - any suggestion or DIY site?. 

 I used to think about get a pico or something like it. But I feel if this mod can be done well maybe less money can bring me better performance._

 

Ow, I see. Sorry, didn't know you had a tube amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 PP is right though, the tube mod will dump the headphone amp in the Zero, which doesn't fit your needs. One of those SPDIF/USB sound card devices, along with a Zero with HDAM in the DAC, would be a very nice sound for the office. Not too eye catching either. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Watch the impressions of the HDAMs that people have coming in this week.


----------



## richierich

Hey guys I'm a dummy and forgot which way the OPA627's go back onto the DAC section. Could anyone check theirs and let me know which way to put it back? Thanks.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Sure thing big guy. Just place them with the notch facing the rear of the unit. If you look at the sockets themselves they will have a half moon cutout or notch indicating direction...at least that's how I remember them being...it's been a while since I opamp rolled 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Remember also the browndog adapter is directional when you put 627's in the dual dip sockets. They are oriented in the same manner.

 Does that help Rich ?

 Peete.


----------



## taso89

Is there a tiny little wedge on yours? Mine faces towards the back of the case.

 EDIT: PP beat me to it


----------



## richierich

Peete, my OPA627s look similar to this:






 It's the little ones mounted over each other.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *richierich* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pete, my OPA627s look similar to this:






 It's the little ones mounted over each other._

 

In the picture, the left-hand opamp package is correctly orientated. Pin one is top-left. Pin 7 on the SOIC package is connected to pin 8 of the PDIP socket.

 PDIP = big IC package.
 SOIC = smaller IC package.

 Peeeeeeeeete - welcome back 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## richierich

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In the picture, the left-hand opamp package is correctly orientated. Pin one is top-left. Pin 7 on the SOIC package is connected to pin 8 of the PDIP socket.

 PDIP = big IC package.
 SOIC = smaller IC package.

 Peeeeeeeeete - welcome back 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.

 ~Phewl._

 

Awesome AP, I had a feeling it was that way. Thanks!!

 Oh yeah and welcome back Peete!

 Rich


----------



## Pricklely Peete

The little dot shows pin 1. Pin 1 should be top left if the socket notch on dac board is facing the back of the unit.....(which it should be) I keep forgetting about the AU version....I have DIP8 BP's on the dual adapter. 

 I'm double checking this as we speak so don't power up just yet...I want to make absolutely sure before I fry your opamps with my advice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Make sure you note the difference Rich from here on in please 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.

 Hehe AP beat me to it...phew now I don't have to look..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hi AP how are you mate ?


----------



## richierich

lol yeah I'm going to take pictures of the internals once I get my SDHC card for my Digicam. Sorry Peete it won't happen again!


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hehe AP beat me to it...phew now I don't have to look..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hi AP how are you mate ?_

 

Cringing, at the moment. I'm off to demo some Stax headphones this week... I'm prepared, but my wallet is not 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 Also wondering if I really want to get into the whole valve game. The 4040 package I'm looking at has a valve "energiser". I like solid state... I've never heard a valve so don't know what I'm missing out on, other than the worry of owning something that'll wear out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Tubes and Stax gear are a match made in heaven when mated with right amp....your poor poor wallet....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I love SS but tubes are what make my music world go round and round...(for me at least). I simply love valves even if they are a pita sometimes...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wouldn't have it any other way though !!!!

 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

I know... I know... but valves get hot, can't be left on 24/7, and are just another level of complication for me. I use my gear every single day - I love the fact that my CDP(and, if I ever fix it, my DAC) can be left on 24/7 and just used at a moments notice.

 I don't have to replace anything every couple of years. I don't have to worry about turning it off, or that one day it'll fail.

 My speaker amplifier is probably some ~15 years old now, and despite remaining powered up all the time, needs nothing done to it. And I doubt it will in another 5 years.

 Guess I need to listen to both the solid-state and vacuum-tube energisers side by side, see how big the difference really is.

Audio Affair - Stax SRS 4040 Signature II Electrostatic Headphones System - Available from Audio Affair

 That's what I've been looking at, so far. But I'll probably end up talking myself into the solid-state SRM-727II and the SR-4070 cans...

 Sensible head is restricting me to the cost of the 4040 package though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Though I do question just how sensible my head is being... a grand(£) on headphones...!!

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Summer Jazz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well the OPA-Earth is quite similar to HDAM in terms of sound output. Only difference is the parameters used and the method of construction (earth wire, pcb, etc). This was mentioned earlier. Dont equate OPA Sun with HDAM.

 Whereas OPA Sun will sound slightly different, more dynamic and responsive.

 I would hope u would get the free 1 to 1 promo, and give us your review on OPA Sun too._

 

Hi CCSChua,
 Too many pages to read & got confuse, I would like to know 
 1)If I use my Zero DAC as DAC, in other words, CD player to Zero DAC to Amp to Speakers, what will be the recommended HDAM? OPA-Sun or OPA-Earth? 
 2)Either one of them (OPA-Sun or OPA-Earth), I have to order the dual channel type, right? 
 3)Any photo to display how it is installed inside the Zero DAC? 
 4)What is the current pricing (including shipping to Singapore)?
 Thanks!


----------



## alxwang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Summer Jazz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi CCSChua,
 Too many pages to read & got confuse, I would like to know 
 1)If I use my Zero DAC as DAC, in other words, CD player to Zero DAC to Amp to Speakers, what will be the recommended HDAM? OPA-Sun or OPA-Earth? 
 2)Either one of them (OPA-Sun or OPA-Earth), I have to order the dual channel type, right? 
 3)Any photo to display how it is installed inside the Zero DAC? 
 4)What is the current pricing (including shipping to Singapore)?
 Thanks!_

 

Let me help a little.
 1) Sun and earth are different and which one is better you should decide yourself. Because buy one get one free so it is not a problem.
 2) Yes.
 4) I think it will be 30+3(extend cable)+shipping. To canada will be 23 so consider less than 23. But you should contact Mr He to make sure of it.


----------



## Summer Jazz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alxwang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Let me help a little.
 1) Sun and earth are different and which one is better you should decide yourself. Because buy one get one free so it is not a problem.
 2) Yes.
 4) I think it will be 30+3(extend cable)+shipping. To canada will be 23 so consider less than 23. But you should contact Mr He to make sure of it._

 

Hi alxwang,
 Thanks for the reply. 
 The extended cable is to allow the OPA to be placed somewhere inside the Zero but away from the board, right? 
 Is there any orientation on the installation of these OPA? 
 In other words, if order OPA-Sun will receive free OPA-Earth? So basically they are of the same price. 
 Is there an email that I can write to Mr He?


----------



## alxwang

Hopefully this link will answer your Q:
ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1


----------



## Nedman

Just got my Earth and Sun HDAMs delivered today. And have put in the Earth HDAM for now.

 Sounds good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . 

 A lot more detail and sound stage, and a big improvement over my 627's. 

 The sound also seems to match with my valve pre-amp better, before it sounded a little fuzzy around the bottom end. Now it still has that tube warmth , but more defined around the edges Hopefully this should become more apparent with the Sun HDAM.

 But even after a short listen of the Earth unit. I know I could be perfectly happy with it. It gives the music a very listenable quality.

 I usually have the sound system on for about 15 - 18 hours a day. So I'll give the Earth unit about a week before I try out the Sun.


----------



## Henmyr

Just got this email from audio-gd. I do not really know what it means, but I leave it to you (anyone) to interpret.

 Full email:
  Quote:


 Hi!
 i need your help, please give your mercy to help us, post underside review in the forum of you known, thanks very much.

 Be care this guy, tommylee 

 Post #1

 Unfortunately Tommylee has put in his review in here,

http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/...3;topicseen#new

 He want to bring shame on us.

 I have compute who is Tommylee,

 I warn him, if bring shame on us once again,

 I will take some attestation to tell all the world, who sale they products ,but OEM by us. We still have more PCB of there products.

 Kingwa


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Yea I just got that same email what does it mean?


----------



## fishkill62

Listeners
 After being extremly impressed with my hdam 'sun' supplied by Kingwa from 'audio-gd' I'm now buying a buffer from him to place between the Zero & my preamp. This is his latest offering and it promises to outdo many similar designs...the link...

ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 3

 Cheers Chris...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got this email from audio-gd. I do not really know what it means, but I leave it to you (anyone) to interpret.

 Full email:_

 


 Hi Henmyr,

 I registered at that forum and am waiting for the admin there to approve the registration. I will post later on what this is about. Sounds like someone is giving the product a bad review though.

 I also received the same email and told Kingwa that there will always one person who dislikes someones stuff....not to worry about it since the vast majority of end users are more than happy with the HDAM's they supply. The "earth" module is the same one that Lawrence sells and Burson Audio...so....

 Peete.


----------



## gavszero

Just a question about Foobar & Asio . First I tried Asio4all and the plugin for winamp set at 24bit , comparing to the direct sound output I can't heard any difference at all . so I installed Foobar and the same with that I can't heard any difference . Does that mean my sound card the Terratex DMX6fire and DMXfire 1024 ( Another Computer ) doesn't support Bit Perfect ? I'm using Windows XP Pro .

 My OPA-SUN are now 83 hours old and sounding great , really happy with it . Still yet to burn in the EARTH to compare .. But I'm sure either is going to stay in , might have to get a 2nd zero and have both at hand . Wouldn't it be great if there was a way to switch between modules . You could have Natural sound ( EARTH ) and switch to Dynamic ( SUN ) .. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Gavin ...


----------



## decayed.cell

Yep same here. Made an account to see what the fuss is about


----------



## ScottieB

I got it too - he must've sent to all customers. I think someone's been talking Shmack and they aren't happy - want to make sure their name doens't get trampled on at forums like this one (and the one they linked to) - I too am waiting for the registration at the linked site. Once we read the post I bet we'll have a better idea of what this is all about.


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gavszero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just a question about Foobar & Asio . First I tried Asio4all and the plugin for winamp set at 24bit , comparing to the direct sound output I can't heard any difference at all . so I installed Foobar and the same with that I can't heard any difference . Does that mean my sound card the Terratex DMX6fire and DMXfire 1024 ( Another Computer ) doesn't support Bit Perfect ? I'm using Windows XP Pro .

 My OPA-SUN are now 83 hours old and sounding great , really happy with it . Still yet to burn in the EARTH to compare .. But I'm sure either is going to stay in , might have to get a 2nd zero and have both at hand . Wouldn't it be great if there was a way to switch between modules . You could have Natural sound ( EARTH ) and switch to Dynamic ( SUN ) .. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Gavin ..._

 

It sounds like you are actually not using ASIO, the difference in sound quality is normally apparent. Perform this quick test: are you able to use the volume control within Winamp? If so, you are not using ASIO. Volume control doesn't work with Winamp when ASIO is active.


----------



## ccschua

Frankly ASIO4ALL for me i cant hear the difference.

 I receive the same grouses from Audio-gd about someone tarnishing their image. Hope someone not getting jealous about the OPA stuff. I have told Audio-gd ( Kingwa is away a few days) that it is no big fuss.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got it too - he must've sent to all customers. I think someone's been talking Shmack and they aren't happy - want to make sure their name doens't get trampled on at forums like this one (and the one they linked to) - I too am waiting for the registration at the linked site. Once we read the post I bet we'll have a better idea of what this is all about._

 

I've also received it. Registered on the site so I could read it, waiting for account approval...

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_snip...

 The "earth" module is the same one that Lawrence sells and Burson Audio...so....

 Peete._

 

Are we 100% that this is the case? That earth is the exact same as Burson sells for $155?


 The buffers they have under "our creations" also look VERY similar (if not identical) to the one audio-gd sells. 

 1. Are Burson selling audio-gd's creations? If this is the case, why do they have them under "Our Creations" page?
 2. Are Burson copying audio-gd's creations?
 3. Are audio-gd copying Burson's creations?
 4. Are audio-gd selling Burson's creations? This seem very unlikely, since Burson would probably not sell their creations so low to audio-gd so that we can buy them for <$50.
 EDIT: 5. Maybe they do not share anything more than looks?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Henmyr I wouldn't be at all surprised if Burson is pulling a fast one on those that don't do their homework....it wouldn't be the first time I've seen this....for example 2 different web stores selling slightly different(cosmetic) versions of the entire Yaqin line for almost double the cost and claiming exclusive design to their web stores products. 

 One store in Canada, the other in the US.

 Definitely pays to shop around as buyer beware is even more relevant today than ever......

 Oh yeah neither of those 2 stores would post internal shots of their exclusive designs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....because they are exactly the same as the Yaqin amps being sold by others for 50% less in some cases...the similarities are obvious to.

 Peete.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Frankly ASIO4ALL for me i cant hear the difference.

 I receive the same grouses from Audio-gd about someone tarnishing their image. Hope someone not getting jealous about the OPA stuff. I have told Audio-gd ( Kingwa is away a few days) that it is no big fuss._

 

I see you have a creative card (according to your sig...) if this is the case y ou should NOT be using ASIO4All - Creative's ASIO is much better IMO and all creative cards should be able to use it. If you are using ya creative card, try uninstalling ASIO4All and using Creative's ASIO instead.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I checked out the Audio Circle thread.......seems audio-gd need to brush up on their English skills......and read the forums rules before suddenly doing a drive by marketing blitz...other than that the web store could use a "westerner" as a point man for such a thing much like how LD handles it's non Asian customer base through David.....

 I'll send a message off to Kingwa and try and explain it to them....(but not right now....I've got tweaking and building to do on another project ) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are we 100% that this is the case? That earth is the exact same as Burson sells for $155?


 The buffers they have under "our creations" also look VERY similar (if not identical) to the one audio-gd sells. 

 1. Are Burson selling audio-gd's creations? If this is the case, why do they have them under "Our Creations" page?
 2. Are Burson copying audio-gd's creations?
 3. Are audio-gd copying Burson's creations?
 4. Are audio-gd selling Burson's creations? This seem very unlikely, since Burson would probably not sell their creations so low to audio-gd so that we can buy them for <$50.
 EDIT: 5. Maybe they do not share anything more than looks?_

 

Well, u may doubt Audio-gd and it is natural. He was in for quick gain, then u know why someone with good product, cant speak much english, try to sell the products. The same goes for Audionote.

 If you would spend sometime to check his page on DAC, preamp and amplifier (CAST output), u will be amazed what this whizkid can do [at least he doesn't look old]. Look at his DAC 9SE, and his Mark Levinson similar products.
 In other words - Quality pCB, layout, component and topology.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I checked out the Audio Circle thread.......seems audio-gd need to brush up on their English skills......and read the forums rules before suddenly doing a drive by marketing blitz...other than that the web store could use a "westerner" as a point man for such a thing much like how LD handles it's non Asian customer base through David.....

 I'll send a message off to Kingwa and try and explain it to them....(but not right now....I've got tweaking and building to do on another project ) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 


 Hmm yeah I've read it now too. There isn't really much worth quoting so I won't bother... seems that someone (or two someones) were badmouthing audio-gd without anything to back it up - actuallly seems similar to "our" andrea - maybe same person? either way either a lot was made of nothing or many of the juicy posts are gone, because really all that is there is some discussion about the design and who copied who. I doubt audio-gd has much to worry about, but I bet Audio Circle just got a small spike in new memberships...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, u may doubt Audio-gd and it is natural. He was in for quick gain, then u know why someone with good product, cant speak much english, try to sell the products. The same goes for Audionote.

 If you would spend sometime to check his page on DAC, preamp and amplifier (CAST output), u will be amazed what this whizkid can do [at least he doesn't look old]. Look at his DAC 9SE, and his Mark Levinson similar products.
 In other words - Quality pCB, layout, component and topology._

 

Agreed....the designs are outstanding in quality and construction....being somewhat of a DAC nutter...I'll be diving into the 17D next spring to feed a LD MK VI rig (when I have more money to blow) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.

 PS The C-2C headphone amp looks mighty good to boot....just a few bucks more than the LD MK V


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Agreed....the designs are outstanding in quality and construction....being somewhat of a DAC nutter...I'll be diving into the 17D next spring to feed a LD MK VI rig (when I have more money to blow) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.

 PS The C-2C headphone amp looks mighty good to boot....just a few bucks more than the LD MK V_

 

Again his english is not doing him good. The 17D is no more there I think. please have a look at this 

 DAC (DAC 9 mark 3)

CD×ªÅÌ/DAC

 AMP (look at the 334k, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )

ºÎÇì»ªÔ*´´ÒôÏì

 Those items really killing me softly (and that's not the top end model).

 The fact is at his forum, those items are really well received (french, australlia users).


----------



## direcow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Summer Jazz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi CCSChua,
 4)What is the current pricing (including shipping to Singapore)?
 Thanks!_

 

shipping to SG costs USD13.40 I believe...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Again his english is not doing him good. The 17D is no more there I think. please have a look at this 

 DAC (DAC 9 mark 3)

CD×ªÅÌ/DAC

 AMP (look at the 334k, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 )

ºÎÇì»ªÔ*´´ÒôÏì

 Those items really killing me softly (and that's not the top end model).

 The fact is at his forum, those items are really well received (french, australlia users)._

 

Yes I saw the others, the 17D has an asterix beside it on the price page stating "updated for 2008" with a different type of DAC chip(s) ....I also asked Kingwa about the 17D last night...he hasn't emailed back yet.

 I believe you about the positive reviews, just taking a good look at what Mr He has designed has quality written all over it from every conceivable standpoint. I 'd even say that these designs are overbuilt but I love that kind of thing. I haven't seen build quality like this in any Western gear under 3K...not a single Western manufacturer could produce this level of quality for less than 5K on up....IMHO of course. My 4.5K Odyssey amps aren't nearly as well stocked as the audio-gd stuff is...not even close.

 IOW CC...I'm in total agreement with your opinion of the gear they produce...

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Man that DAC is nice..........(9 Mk 3)......droooool....

 Can't quite swing that kind of jack after blowing a pile of money on tube amps of all types this past spring....I'd be living in a tent after the wife has kicked me out...I'd ask for a 5000 Watt 20 amp diesel generator from the settlement (to run my stuff ) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe I can sneak it past....doh......be very quiet (typing) she can see all...hear all, decipher all........LOL

 Peete.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Man that DAC is nice..........(9 Mk 3)......droooool....

 Can't quite swing that kind of jack after blowing a pile of money on tube amps of all types this past spring....I'd be living in a tent after the wife has kicked me out...I'd ask for a 5000 Watt 20 amp diesel generator from the settlement (to run my stuff ) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe I can sneak it past....doh......be very quiet (typing) she can see all...hear all, decipher all........LOL

 Peete._

 

Haahaa famous last words, my man... Don't risk it! They know everything!


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I checked out the Audio Circle thread.......seems audio-gd need to brush up on their English skills......and read the forums rules before suddenly doing a drive by marketing blitz...other than that the web store could use a "westerner" as a point man for such a thing much like how LD handles it's non Asian customer base through David.....

 I'll send a message off to Kingwa and try and explain it to them....(but not right now....I've got tweaking and building to do on another project ) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

It does look quite odd, doesn't it? It does seem that postings have been removed, so none of us can get a solid idea of what was really going on.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## matrix200

Hey guys I think I need some help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I have tried the led mod as suggested by kmel and after putting 10k resistors on two out of 3 I now have no optical/coax leds at all!
 I have double checked to make sure the resistance is indeed 10kOm (the multimeter showed 9.87).
 I have tried resoldering several times and still no go.
 The DAC works fine.
 Power and headphone leds are also as they used to be.
 Any suggestions would be welcome


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Haahaa famous last words, my man... Don't risk it! They know everything!_

 

Except how to program a PVR/VCR or digital answering machine....forget about wiring up my main rig 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have some uses I suppose 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *matrix200* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys I think I need some help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I have tried the led mod as suggested by kmel and after putting 10k resistors on two out of 3 I now have no optical/coax leds at all!
 I have double checked to make sure the resistance is indeed 10kOm (the multimeter showed 9.87).
 I have tried resoldering several times and still no go.
 The DAC works fine.
 Power and headphone leds are also as they used to be.
 Any suggestions would be welcome 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Try the reset buttons at the back after double checking everything.

 Be careful re soldering things...too much heat is bad....

 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *matrix200* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys I think I need some help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I have tried the led mod as suggested by kmel and after putting 10k resistors on two out of 3 I now have no optical/coax leds at all!
 I have double checked to make sure the resistance is indeed 10kOm (the multimeter showed 9.87).
 I have tried resoldering several times and still no go.
 The DAC works fine.
 Power and headphone leds are also as they used to be.
 Any suggestions would be welcome 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Possibly you have a different brand of LED which requires more power to function. Try tacking another 10k on the rear of the solder pads - this will halve the resistance seen by the LED to ~5k, and should persuade it to light up.

 If it works, then you'll need to drop down to a lower value, or skilfully tack resistors onto the other pads. 4.7k works well for me.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## matrix200

Hey thanks for the answer , what do you mean by reset buttons?


----------



## matrix200

Damn didn't see your answer AudioPhewl sorry 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Sounds like a good idea.
 I will try that again tomorrow if I am able to persuade my friend to give me his solder tools again


----------



## AudioPhewl

You'll probably be able to figure out if doubling-up on resistors is going to work, by just bending the legs back and touching the pads. If the LED lights up when the second resistor is in parallel with the first, then you've cracked the problem. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *matrix200* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey thanks for the answer , what do you mean by reset buttons?_

 

I thought you meant at the back on the PCB...LOL.......man I need to get more sleep or something or other :
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	













 AP has you covered...don't mind me (the idiot
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )

 Peete.


----------



## alxwang

Does anyone did or is going to test sun/earth replace ne5532? Maybe I have to be the first one?


----------



## gavszero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It sounds like you are actually not using ASIO, the difference in sound quality is normally apparent. Perform this quick test: are you able to use the volume control within Winamp? If so, you are not using ASIO. Volume control doesn't work with Winamp when ASIO is active._

 

I'm glad that is the way to find out whether it's using ASIO , no the volume doesn't work when using ASIO .. So the terratec must be doing a good job with the digital stream them ..


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes I saw the others, the 17D has an asterix beside it on the price page stating "updated for 2008" with a different type of DAC chip(s) ....I also asked Kingwa about the 17D last night...he hasn't emailed back yet.

 I believe you about the positive reviews, just taking a good look at what Mr He has designed has quality written all over it from every conceivable standpoint. I 'd even say that these designs are overbuilt but I love that kind of thing. I haven't seen build quality like this in any Western gear under 3K...not a single Western manufacturer could produce this level of quality for less than 5K on up....IMHO of course. My 4.5K Odyssey amps aren't nearly as well stocked as the audio-gd stuff is...not even close.

 IOW CC...I'm in total agreement with your opinion of the gear they produce...

 Peete._

 

Kingwa believe in simple design concept, with over design especially on power supply for the DAC. For his DAC, he has 23 group of power supply, with 50,000 uF capacitor storage bank. 

 ZERO DAC is solution to good music at lowest costs. Audio-gd is hopefully the solution to high end music at reasonable costs .


----------



## taso89

Back in the review, Penchum indicates OPA627 DAC + LT1469 as a great combo too. How does it compare to OPA627 DAC + LT1364?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alxwang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone did or is going to test sun/earth replace ne5532? Maybe I have to be the first one?_

 

Pench sent an email off to LC about that very prospect as I had raised the question of current draw from 3 dual channel HDAMS might be an issue. Could just be me being overly cautious once again (or not understanding what is in front of me...lol) but when the dac/amp and modules are at stake better to find out if the load can be handled safely by the current power supply set up.

 I have to admit than when I get my modules I hope that question will be settled because I have 4 of them on the way, 2 of which will go into the H/Amp section if it's ok to do so 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I bet LC has a price drop on his HDAM module now that his OEM source has undercut his sales with direct marketing .....I wouldn't be surprised...

 Peete.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *taso89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Back in the review, Penchum indicates OPA627 DAC + LT1469 as a great combo too. How does it compare to OPA627 DAC + LT1364?_

 

I believe the OPA627's and LT1364 combo is much better than the LT1469 combo. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It was discovered and covered further into the thread.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Kingwa believe in simple design concept, with over design especially on power supply for the DAC. For his DAC, he has 23 group of power supply, with 50,000 uF capacitor storage bank. 

 ZERO DAC is solution to good music at lowest costs. Audio-gd is hopefully the solution to high end music at reasonable costs ._

 


 The Zero has lots left to give...trust me when I say that...stay tuned to the Zero channel 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I agree CC, the Audio-GD stuff is very very nice....and at reasonable..if not downright screaming bargain prices for what you are getting. Thank god for the Chinese audio industry I keep saying to myself these days....

 I will own one of those Hi End DAC's one day soon...it just won't be in 2008...hope the prices don't skyrocket by then...


 Peete.

 PS Wow massive thunderstorm rolling in...have to shut all the gear down quick...


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alxwang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone did or is going to test sun/earth replace ne5532? Maybe I have to be the first one?_

 

You will probably be the first, but you won't be alone. My modules are coming, just like PP's. I'm waiting on a response from Lawrence on the power issue.


----------



## alxwang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You will probably be the first, but you won't be alone. My modules are coming, just like PP's. I'm waiting on a response from Lawrence on the power issue._

 

What's power issue?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alxwang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What's power issue?_

 

PP and I were concerned that it might be a strain on the Zero, to have three modules running at once, so I sent an email to Lawrence, to get his opinion on this. Just to be sure.


----------



## alxwang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PP and I were concerned that it might be a strain on the Zero, to have three modules running at once, so I sent an email to Lawrence, to get his opinion on this. Just to be sure. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hmm, never thought about that yet. I just send 2 email to Mr. He and Zero's tech service. Hope they can reply me some useful information.


----------



## decayed.cell

I too had a read of that thread, sounds like Lee is advertising. Sounds like Mr. He OEMs for a lot of brands. btw his DAC-100 looks like a beast in DAC AH housing, more expensive than a Zero though

 *waits for his HDAMs to arrive*

 Oh and I had a read here "Mr He copy many many design from big brand machine and use same parts. You buy from Mr He spend 10% money and get 100% sound." - sounds... interesting?


----------



## viscosity




----------



## kejar31

viscosity:

 Is that the OPA-SUN or OPA-EARTH?? How does it sound??


----------



## graben

Will this run fine on Japan 100V, I emailed an ebay seller and Lawrence but all they said was "yeah it is universal 110V-220V" but 100 is not 110...


----------



## viscosity

OPA-EARTH
 First impression I must say very long lasting. I have found the sound that I miss. The earth sounds so natural and crisp clear. The separation is very good when I play the chinese high impact drums. The vocal is so natural and the singer sibilance (like the Sssst, Ssssh) is gone. This is what I am looking for. It is so much better than the OPA 627, way much better.
 good job. next I will test OPA Sun.

 OPA-SUN
 This is initial impression on OPA Sun.

 Just spend some time listening to the OPA Sun. Initial impression again is wide soundstage offer by this discrete opamp.

 Actuall to tell the difference between Sun and Earth is minor. It is more dynamic, slightly deeper bass and controlled mid mid bass. Soprano on treble is also polished less the Sssst. Instrument accuracy is good and imaging is accurate. On gypsy high rhtymic songs, the complex passage is handled with good resolution. OPA Sun detailing of instrument is impressive, yet polish at the edges of vocal.

Chua from Malaysia


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *graben* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Will this run fine on Japan 100V, I emailed an ebay seller and Lawrence but all they said was "yeah it is universal 110V-220V" but 100 is not 110..._

 

Your fine graben 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Mine is running at 125V and is only rated for 110V (or is it 115V ? ) Bah doesn't matter...your well within the limits of the transformers safety margin...IOW's no problems at 100V

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *viscosity* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OPA-EARTH
 First impression I must say very long lasting. I have found the sound that I miss. The earth sounds so natural and crisp clear. The separation is very good when I play the chinese high impact drums. The vocal is so natural and the singer sibilance (like the Sssst, Ssssh) is gone. This is what I am looking for. It is so much better than the OPA 627, way much better.
 good job. next I will test OPA Sun.

 OPA-SUN
 This is initial impression on OPA Sun.

 Just spend some time listening to the OPA Sun. Initial impression again is wide soundstage offer by this discrete opamp.

 Actuall to tell the difference between Sun and Earth is minor. It is more dynamic, slightly deeper bass and controlled mid mid bass. Soprano on treble is also polished less the Sssst. Instrument accuracy is good and imaging is accurate. On gypsy high rhtymic songs, the complex passage is handled with good resolution. OPA Sun detailing of instrument is impressive, yet polish at the edges of vocal.

Chua from Malaysia_

 

Cool.......the SUN sounds like a good fit for the H/Amp section.

 Thanks for that mini review, it is very helpful. Quite in tune with my impressions a few months back. The really cool part is they get way better as you put about 70+ hours on them....your not going to believe your ears...well ok you'll beleive them but you'll be grinning from ear to ear and it will be impossible to dislodge you from your headphones unless you have to go to the bathroom or eat or sleep....something like that anyway
	

	
	
		
		

		
			









 By accident I hit the beer chug emoticon...now I want a beer but the headphone cable isn't long enough to reach the damn fridge....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 LOL 


 Peete.


----------



## kejar31

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cool.......the SUN sounds like a good fit for the H/Amp section.

 Thanks for that mini review, it is very helpful. Quite in tune with my impressions a few months back. The really cool part is they get way better as you put about 70+ hours on them....your not going to believe your ears...well ok you'll beleive them but you'll be grinning from ear to ear and it will be impossible to dislodge you from your headphones unless you have to go to the bathroom or eat or sleep....something like that anyway
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








 By accident I hit the beer chug emoticon...now I want a beer but the headphone cable isn't long enough to reach the damn fridge....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 LOL 


 Peete._

 

So Peete, your thinking of using the earth in the DAC section wile the SUN in the Amp???


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I have been using the Earth module for quite some time in the DAC section with a cap tweak gleaned from the Burson Audio web page. What Lawrence sold as his HDAM a while back turns out to be the Earth module made by audio-gd .....so all along I've been running the Earth module and didn't know it until a couple a weeks ago 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was the first guniea pig to buy the HDAM for the Zero so I guess I'm partially responsible for all this discrete circuit mayhem of late although many were skeptical it would outperform modern opamps back then...boy am I glad I didn't listen to that advice !!!

 The Zero with an HDAM in the DAC section is match made in heaven (or hell) IMHO. The synergy is quite astounding.

 Peete.

 PS I 'd like to try the Sun modules in the H/Amp section just to see if it works it's discrete circuit magic in that section as well. Worth a shot since I'll be up to my eyeballs in HDAMS by next week ( I'll have 5 dual channel modules, 3 Earth, 2 Sun) Just waiting on Lawrence to see it's possible to do so, see a few posts back about that.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I'd like to further explain the reasoning behind trying the Sun modules in the H/Amp section if I may. The cost (at least until August 31st) makes the additional modules for that section an economically sensible idea at 66 US per pair of dual channel SUN modules. The real bonus is the 2 Earth modules that are included Free of charge with the SUN modules purchase until August 31st.....With the old deal from Lawrence (80 US per dual channel HDAM) that would have been closer to 200 US (including shipping + customs) and out of the question since it would be way more than the entire cost of the Zero including shipping. Thanks to the member who found this company and provided the link it's now possible to do so without killing the bank account...a win win all around.

 I paid 92.50 US for 4 dual channel modules including shipping with 4 extension cables as well. An unreal deal I couldn't pass up since I need 2 more Earth modules for my DAC project I'm currently developing/tweaking...er hacking away at 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This deal was a god send for my wallet !!!! If the original poster of that link PM's me with proof, I'll send him a bonus prize for pointing this deal out for everyone here...I'm serious !!!

 Peete.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

I just ordered one Earth and a free Sun so are you saying that I will need another Earth/Sun since there are 3 possible places to upgrade the Zero at. The Dac, h/amp, and the regular speaker amp and I correct by saying that? You got me kind of lost right now.


----------



## taso89

^ The head amp has two opamp sockets, the DAC has one. In total, 3.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Yea I should order another pair of OPA-Earth and Sun. Thanks taso89.


----------



## gavszero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd like to further explain the reasoning behind trying the Sun modules in the H/Amp section if I may. The cost (at least until August 31st) makes the additional modules for that section an economically sensible idea at 66 US per pair of dual channel SUN modules. The real bonus is the 2 Earth modules that are included Free of charge with the SUN modules purchase until August 31st.....With the old deal from Lawrence (80 US per dual channel HDAM) that would have been closer to 200 US (including shipping + customs) and out of the question since it would be way more than the entire cost of the Zero including shipping. Thanks to the member who found this company and provided the link it's now possible to do so without killing the bank account...a win win all around.

 I paid 92.50 US for 4 dual channel modules including shipping with 4 extension cables as well. An unreal deal I couldn't pass up since I need 2 more Earth modules for my DAC project I'm currently developing/tweaking...er hacking away at 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This deal was a god send for my wallet !!!! If the original poster of that link PM's me with proof, I'll send him a bonus prize for pointing this deal out for everyone here...I'm serious !!!

 Peete._

 

Hi Peete, Yes they are a damm good deal from Audio - GD . I remember when I said I got the SUN as a pressent there was a member suspicious of me been my first post . I actually saw the Audio - GD link earlier in the forum and went to check it out , when I saw the price of one Hdam I thought I'd order the Earth as a friend of mine already has that one in his Zero and I liked it very much . Anyway when Kingwa sent my order he said he also included the SUN as a pressent so I thought beauty I can try both . My Sun is now 100 hours old and I like it even more to the earth for the DAC . Burning in the Earth now and will decide which one I prefer the best .. I'm also interested whether we can use these in the head amp . Anyway happy Hdaming ... Cheers Gavin ...


----------



## ccschua

True, when u give your review, some are suspicios of you. But not Penchuum. We have got good ears.

 I am waiting for the 300 hours of burn in. Hope to hear PP review on the Earth and sun. Depends on the reception, audio-gd will introduce 'moon'. A lot of listening test is going in for it at this moment.

 For your information, I have snipped the 22pF. still testing it. Next on the list is to replace the Gucci RCA plug with gold plated RCA.

 btw, the cap mod on HDAM is for what improvement.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gavszero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Peete, Yes they are a damm good deal from Audio - GD . I remember when I said I got the SUN as a pressent there was a member suspicious of me been my first post . I actually saw the Audio - GD link earlier in the forum and went to check it out , when I saw the price of one Hdam I thought I'd order the Earth as a friend of mine already has that one in his Zero and I liked it very much . Anyway when Kingwa sent my order he said he also included the SUN as a pressent so I thought beauty I can try both . My Sun is now 100 hours old and I like it even more to the earth for the DAC . Burning in the Earth now and will decide which one I prefer the best .. I'm also interested whether we can use these in the head amp . Anyway happy Hdaming ... Cheers Gavin ..._

 

Hi Gav,

 Looks like your the winner of the prize, PM me your Address and I'll send you 3 x 1 uf K42 Y2 NOS caps for the HDAM tweak mentioned on the Burson Audio page.


 CC...the HDAM cap tweak seems to add some transient speed to the HDAM, along with additional V+ V- filtering and some extra current storage close at hand to the module. I tested this tweak out all by itself before I did the major upgrade I'm currently evaluating (along with Penchum). I found it to be a worthwhile and cheap tweak (the Russian Mil spec NOS caps being very very good caps and best of all dirt cheap).

 I have lots to do today so I can only answer a few questions then I'll be back here later on this evening (EST, daylight savings). 

 Peete.


----------



## Penchum

I got an email from Lawrence this morning. He says it is no problem running 3 modules in the Zero. It has plenty of power to spare!!

 Now I can hardly wait for mine to arrive!


----------



## alxwang

I got email from Mr He too. He said the Volts requirement is exactly same as 5532/627. The current requirement will be a little bit higher but there should be no problem at all.

 Q: Any upgrade suggestion about that 4 D669/B649 after the sun/earth in?


----------



## ccschua

I wonder if anyone from US has started to receive the OPA or not. Usually audio-gd ship by DHL. Guess should be fast and easy to arrive US shores.

 When I first listen to OPA, I got weak. I just wanted to lie down and enjoy music.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alxwang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got email from Mr He too. He said the Volts requirement is exactly same as 5532/627. The current requirement will be a little bit higher but there should be no problem at all.

 Q: Any upgrade suggestion about that 4 D669/B649 after the sun/earth in?_

 

You've lost me with "4 D669/B649". Whats that about Alex ? Sorry to ask but I may be able to help....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## alxwang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You've lost me with "4 D669/B649". Whats that about Alex ? Sorry to ask but I may be able to help....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

These 4:


----------



## ScottieB

Still waiting for mine here in NYC... I never got a tracking number or anything so I have NO IDEA what to expect... everything else I've ordered from China has come USPS so I have no idea how long this will take - but with all these early reports I'm just DYING to hear these things! Thinking I'm going to start with the Sun since more here have experience with the Earth (and original HDAM which as I understand is the same as Earth...). If this does what I'm hoping, I'll be one happy music fiend!


----------



## azncookiecutter

I'll add myself to the pot. Just e-mailed audio-gd for the Earth-Sun combo. Should be an interesting time opamp rolling.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alxwang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_These 4:



_

 

Ah I see. Thanks Alex. Might be worthwhile upgrading these with better quality voltage regulators. It' something I've been looking into but the shunt regulator modules are 47 US a pop...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A better quality part though is easily affordable and might be very very worthwhile for the H/Amp section. I don't know what the voltage specs are but thats easy enough to find out with a cheap meter...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm going to look into this after the current project is completed so I'll revisit this topic at a later date...or you can take the lead on this one Alex 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This is an equal opportunity contribution around these parts (pun intended) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Either way what might be your suggestions with regards those parts Alex ?

 Peete.


 PS I keep popping in and out today...so I can check the board every few hours 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yes I do have a life but this is more fun


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Still waiting for mine here in NYC... I never got a tracking number or anything so I have NO IDEA what to expect... everything else I've ordered from China has come USPS so I have no idea how long this will take - but with all these early reports I'm just DYING to hear these things! Thinking I'm going to start with the Sun since more here have experience with the Earth (and original HDAM which as I understand is the same as Earth...). If this does what I'm hoping, I'll be one happy music fiend! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Same here...no shipping notice or tracking number yet (bought them last Sunday). I don't expect any news for a few more days anyway since Kingwa is off for a few days ( I think I read that somewhere...I don't recall where).

 I'm not worried about it though...they'll get here when they get here ...

 Gotta go again...see ya later fellow Zero freaks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete


----------



## Nedman

I ordered mine on the Sunday. He sent me an email saying the HDAMs had been sent on the Wednesday. They arrived on the following Monday by TNT transport courier. 

 Seeing they were delivered by courier, someone needs to be home to sign for them as well.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Hey Ned that's good to hear.....what part of the world is Byron Bay in again ? Sorry if you answered this already earlier.

 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Same here...no shipping notice or tracking number yet (bought them last Sunday). I don't expect any news for a few more days anyway since Kingwa is off for a few days ( I think I read that somewhere...I don't recall where).

 I'm not worried about it though...they'll get here when they get here ..._

 

I bought mine this Friday just gone(15th). Not received any tracking details yet. After his email yesterday regarding the "TommyLee" character, I responded by asking if he knew when they would ship. Not heard anything back yet.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *matrix200* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Damn didn't see your answer AudioPhewl sorry 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Sounds like a good idea.
 I will try that again tomorrow if I am able to persuade my friend to give me his solder tools again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Did you sort it, matrix200?

 ~Phewl.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

To those that didn't get a tracking number, just ask anyone from audio-gd and they will give you the tracking number. I got it 10 minutes within asking.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Why isn't there an "Easy" button with this stuff ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To those that didn't get a tracking number, just ask anyone from audio-gd and they will give you the tracking number. I got it 10 minutes within asking._

 

Doh...it's that easy ? (slaps head) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I wonder if I can hit 1000 posts by Thursday ? 

 A double celebration would be cool 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just sent and inquiry off to Audio-GD. The delay on mine might be the 4 extension cables I asked and paid for. Like the one Lawrence makes but shorter...that could be why I haven't heard anything yet. Then again they may have shipped already..never know unless you ask 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why isn't there an "Easy" button with this stuff ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

When you find one, please mail me the code. I'll try installing it on a couple of women. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Carry on posting three posts in succession and you'll hit 1k in no time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Nedman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_what part of the world is Byron Bay in again ?

 Peete._

 

Rural Australia [Most easterly point of Australia].


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When you find one, please mail me the code. I'll try installing it on a couple of women. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Carry on posting three posts in succession and you'll hit 1k in no time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







.

 ~Phewl._

 

They have an easy button already...it's getting to it that is the hard part 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nedman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Rural Australia [Most easterly point of Australia]._

 

Thanks Ned, I was going to say Australia but thought I'd ask. That has a bearing on postage speed since your in the same part of the world. Should only add a couple days though for us on the other side of the dirt ball...

 Must be a nice place Ned...I'll mapquest it...would like to see the GBR before I buy the farm ...plus Aussie's like to drink beer as much as us Canuckleheads 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 Peete.

 PS Every time I see the beer chug smilie I want a beer...must be a subliminal message in there


----------



## AudioPhewl

You have my permission to get drunk. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Ph.


----------



## viscosity

could this work??


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_











 You have my permission to get drunk. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Ph._

 

If I do then I can forget about getting anywhere near the "easy" button later on tonight 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *viscosity* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_




 could this work??_

 

On what ? What the hell is that anyway ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Peete


----------



## viscosity

apparently a tube opamp.. 

diyAudio Forums Archive - Philbrick opamp bases


----------



## gavszero

Hey there fellow Zeroheads , 

 I emailed Kingwa that I was impressed with the OPA-SUN and he emailed this back .

 Hi!Gavin:
 Thanks you reply,if have any problems or advice , please tell me.
 If the feedback of OPA is good, we will produce OPA-Moon, it sound like tube.
 Kingwa

 Looks like we might have a new one to play with .

 Cheers,
 Gavin ...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *viscosity* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_apparently a tube opamp.. 

diyAudio Forums Archive - Philbrick opamp bases_

 

Interesting....when you posted the pic I saw the octal base but didn't clue in on it.

 Thanks for the link...

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

That's good news Gav....I wonder how they will pull that one off...not an easy task I would imagine then again I know jack crap about making HDAMs...so....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

What's Kingwa's email address (PM me with it please)...I think I have the correct one (address) but I'd like to make sure...I have some questions about V+ and V- pin assignments for Sun and Earth modules. I can't imagine they would change from pins 4 and 8 but I have to make sure. If anyone else knows for sure then by all means post the info or a link to pin specs for both HDAMs here please.

 Thanks guys 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## alxwang




----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alxwang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_







_

 

Thanks Alex !!!!

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Whats the optimal voltage to run these things at or does that matter (as long as it's within spec) ?

 Thoughts on that Alex ?

 Thanks,

 Peete.


----------



## alxwang

Exactly same as the OPA2604 - that's the reply from Mr. He - I send him a email asking about luther detail. Will post it when I get it. He is on holiday now so....
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Whats the optimal voltage to run these things at or does that matter (as long as it's within spec) ?

 Thoughts on that Alex ?

 Thanks,

 Peete._


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Cool....please post that info when you get it. It'll be interesting to read/hear what he has to say on the subject.

 Peete.


----------



## alxwang

Actually in his email he suggest me replace all of D669/B649 and K170 after I show him the inside photo of zero.
 About D669/B649: He think because the D669/B649 has be stopped production for more than 10 years already so most likely the zero is using fake one which cost 1 RMB and the real one is difficult to find and cost 15 times more. That's why I am think about upgrade D669/B649 at my next step.


----------



## viscosity

i might wait out for the opa-moon... i would really like a more 'tube' sounding amp (albeit artificial.. but who said authentic vintage tubes were in style anywa


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alxwang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually in his email he suggest me replace all of D669/B649 and K170 after I show him the inside photo of zero.
 About D669/B649: He think because the D669/B649 has be stopped production for more than 10 years already so most likely the zero is using fake one which cost 1 RMB and the real one is difficult to find and cost 15 times more. That's why I am think about upgrade D669/B649 at my next step._

 

Interesting......what would be a good quality modern replacement for these ? In light of that info I'd like to replace these as well. Might as well if good ones can had for a little bit of money. Shouldn't cost more than 5-10 dollars US I would think.

 Thanks for this info BTW...great inside info to say the least...

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Kingwa emailed with tracking number for my HDAMS...shipped via DHL...doesn't show up yet on the tracking page...not surprised by that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 They are on the way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Alex I found a cross reference for the regulators (mje344 and mje350 at this link http://www.onsemi.com/PowerSolutions/home. ) but I'm not sure they are exactly right. Stuff is all new to me and it's like walking through a mind field at night wearing a blind fold 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Have a look and see if I got lucky. 

 The original reference was for 2SB649 = mje350 and 2SD669 = mje344 found on DIY Audio linky.. diyAudio Forums Archive - Equiv. Parts: 2SD669, 2SB649

 Peete.


----------



## alxwang

It looks fine.
 Now I try to read some book about Electricity circle - last time I touched it was in university - LOL.
 Mr He's suggestion is I should find all of replacement and try them one by one to find out the sound I like.

 It is time for crossing hand now:
 If I go ahead to do this find/replace/test project I have some concern:
 1. cost. It will need a lot of pouches.
 2. Solder job - I do not think too much solder job on the board is good idea.
 3. What I can get at last - does it worth? I mean if the headphone amp design is bad ....

 So before anything started I am doing some research:

 Take a look at this one:
ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1




 It called IBM - and they are used in the headphone amp 
ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1





 I am not sure whether it will works yet. I just want to make sure which way is better now.

 Anyway it will be done on my 2nd Zero. The zero I have now will be done when earth/sun in and move to my office.


----------



## azncookiecutter

I assume we need a dual version of the OPA-Sun, and not the single version if we want to plug it into the DAC opamp position?


----------



## alxwang

Yes. Dual version with 100mm extend cable at 33$


----------



## LeBuLLeT

hey everyone I was just wondering but how much of an improvement has this upgraded Zero been compared to a stock Zero. Also with all the money spent on a zero couldn't you use that money to start off with something better instead of getting something cheaper and upgrading it or does this upgraded zero just gets drastically better or is the Price/performance still better than anything in this price range?


----------



## ianp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey everyone I was just wondering but how much of an improvement has this upgraded Zero been compared to a stock Zero. Also with all the money spent on a zero couldn't you use that money to start off with something better instead of getting something cheaper and upgrading it or does this upgraded zero just gets drastically better or is the Price/performance still better than anything in this price range?_

 

One major factor here, for me at least, is just how easy it is to upgrade the ZERO. If you can handle a screwdriver, but not a soldering iron, you can still tweak the ZERO greatly and at reasonable cost. 

 To be honest, I can't think of too many other DACs at the price point (stock ZERO + HDAM) that matches it without spending silly money. I'm a big fan of the Monica DAC and have recently modded one, which has required the delicate use of a soldering iron, to the point that it sounds fantastic. The final cost of the Monica plus mods is way above that of the tweaked ZERO.

 Given that the ZERO also gives you have a semi-decent headphone amp, that can also be easily tweaked, I think it's a winner!


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Well I will be using the Amp for both speakers and headphone so are you saying its not really worth using as a headphone amp?


----------



## ianp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I will be using the Amp for both speakers and headphone so are you saying its not really worth using as a headphone amp?_

 

Nope. It's an OK headphone amp and you can roll the opamps to improve it. 

 FWIW I have 2 tweaked ZEROs, one is used to feed a tube amplifier and the other to drive my HD650 headphones.


----------



## viscosity

should be interesting seeing how to get 3 just to fit inside the zero. if possible


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Hey I have hd650's too. How does the Zero sound with the hd650's?


----------



## tedSmith123

Gee with all this HDAMs talk, I am tempted ...

 Quick questions ... if I swap the DAC OPAMP with the OPA-Earth in the Zero, can I still close the case ? What is the optimal length in terms of extension cable for the OPA-Earth, the standard extension cable from Audio-GD is 5cm is that long enough ? With the extension cable, it looks like it is soldered on the HDAM, so if I buy the OPA-Sun and get the free OPA-Earth, I will have to pay for 2 extension cables, correct ?

 Thanks


----------



## Currawong

My Earth and Sun arrived today. I've gone for Sun to start with and easily there's an improvement in sound. Lately I've felt that the Zero is a little cloudy in its sound and this upgrade seems to have fairly removed that.

 I'm waiting on another pair of cans then I'll do a comparison with my Apogee Duet. The upgraded Zero was fairly close to the Duet in SQ, but had the warmer sound with the 627's in place.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey I have hd650's too. How does the Zero sound with the hd650's?_

 

The Zero configured with OPA627AU's and LT1364's in the head amp, sounds great with HD-650's. If you decide to get the HDAM for the DAC section, you will see big improvements both in DAC output to your speaker rig, and the internal headphone amp. Those LT1364's in the headphone amp love a good clean signal coming from the DAC's HDAM, and the final output to your HD-650's will sound much better than you would expect, for such a small change.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tedSmith123* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Gee with all this HDAMs talk, I am tempted ...

 Quick questions ... if I swap the DAC OPAMP with the OPA-Earth in the Zero, can I still close the case ? What is the optimal length in terms of extension cable for the OPA-Earth, the standard extension cable from Audio-GD is 5cm is that long enough ? With the extension cable, it looks like it is soldered on the HDAM, so if I buy the OPA-Sun and get the free OPA-Earth, I will have to pay for 2 extension cables, correct ?

 Thanks_

 

I would recommend paying the little bit extra for the longer extension cables. It is the method with the least worries to it. You are right, if you put the HDAM directly into the socket, you can't close the lid.


----------



## Hales

Ended up with the LT1364 with a heat sink in the DAC and LM4562 in the headphone amp. I am not having any heat problems so far on any of the chips. Soundstage imaging and note decay are top notch. Lots of little details are unmasked now. I can echo the experience of hearing new things in albums that I have heard hundreds of times. 

 Tried all LM4562 but it was fatiguing to listen to with HD600's. I let the 3rd chip burn in for 72 hours before giving up on the setup.

 I also have RF filters on the incoming AC and the ribbon going to the control panel up front. Filters are inside the amp. The power and control ribbon are also independently routed to not touch each other. Not sure of why, but this seemed to give me back the sound of cymbals instead of white noise.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey everyone I was just wondering but how much of an improvement has this upgraded Zero been compared to a stock Zero. Also with all the money spent on a zero couldn't you use that money to start off with something better instead of getting something cheaper and upgrading it or does this upgraded zero just gets drastically better or is the Price/performance still better than anything in this price range?_

 

The original stock Zero is of decent enough quality, to compete with other DAC/Amps that cost twice the money. Some say even higher, but I try to keep a "realistic" view on this. With the "HeadFi Deal", where the DAC Opamp is upgraded to OPA627AU's on an adapter, and the headphone amp Opamps are upgraded to LT1364's, the sound quality of the Zero jumps up much higher than the original one, for the same original cost of $139.

 For many, this "HeadFi Deal" has become the new "stock" Zero. With an additional self upgrade to the "Earth" HDAM in the DAC socket, the DAC output improves greatly, and the headphone amp output improves greatly. You don't have to upgrade the LT1364's in the headphone amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It is very easy to get caught up in this "mod" and "upgrade" fever going on. The ones I mentioned above are PROVEN and have similar results no matter what headphones you use. With the current deal on the HDAM's (Buy the "Earth" and get "Sun" for free), the monies are pretty easy to part with. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Several of us are buying 2 "Earths" to get 2 "Suns" free, so we can try them in the headphone amp as well.

 In the end, the "HeadFi Deal" Zero is a much improved DAC/Amp and a steal at it's current price. With just one "Earth" HDAM in the DAC section, you can make your speaker system super happy, and also benefit from the improved output of the headphone amp. It is so little money, that most can't help recommending it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The price/performance ratio started out great, and with very low cost upgrades, jumps very high. There hasn't been a comparison on this yet, but eventually someone with another brand of DAC/Amp will get around to it.


----------



## ccschua

Wow Penchuum cant resist the temptation to do comparisons with other DAC. I was at first reserved with the ZERO DAC and OPA Earth/Sun.

 For the Price that you pay for, I bet no other DAC can sound that great. I also heard PP has some mod to make the ZERO/Earth go one mile further.

 I started with the speaker system, I dont even want to go back to OPA 627 for the moment.

 I hope Gavin can give us some review on the buffer.


----------



## kejar31

I got my tracking order from Kingwa and it looks like my OPA-Sun and Earth are already in the US. I hope to get the timmarow or the next day.


----------



## ScottieB

OK - never got a tracking number, but on my way out the door this morning I bumped into the DHL man! This is the fastest I've gotten anything from China so far - less than one week to NYC! It's gonna be a long day at work, though...


----------



## kejar31

Update: It looks as though I will be getting the package today!! WOW that is crazy fast, considering that it was shipped from China on Monday and will be in my hands in Urbana/Campaign IL on Wednesday.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK - never got a tracking number, but on my way out the door this morning I bumped into the DHL man! This is the fastest I've gotten anything from China so far - less than one week to NYC! It's gonna be a long day at work, though..._

 

Yes. That's indeed a long long day. How wish to be playing the music now.

 come ya with the review, and sit tight.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alxwang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It looks fine.
 Now I try to read some book about Electricity circle - last time I touched it was in university - LOL.
 Mr He's suggestion is I should find all of replacement and try them one by one to find out the sound I like.

 It is time for crossing hand now:
 If I go ahead to do this find/replace/test project I have some concern:
 1. cost. It will need a lot of pouches.
 2. Solder job - I do not think too much solder job on the board is good idea.
 3. What I can get at last - does it worth? I mean if the headphone amp design is bad ....

 So before anything started I am doing some research:

 Take a look at this one:
ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1




 It called IBM - and they are used in the headphone amp 
ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1





 I am not sure whether it will works yet. I just want to make sure which way is better now.

 Anyway it will be done on my 2nd Zero. The zero I have now will be done when earth/sun in and move to my office._

 

Impressive module.....to be fair the H/Amp in the Zero isn't bad considering it's a throw in. Just want to keep things in perspective.

 That headphone amp may be just what I'm looking for as the SS (don't want to listen to tubes all the time) amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If that makes any sense...

 Peete.


----------



## indianbraker

well iv decided that i want to incorporate this dac to my cars system...im thinking of having the music playing from my macbook to the zero dac through optical cable and then through the rca inputs on my headunit....this is being done for testing purposes to see the difference in sq...im going to be testing mp3s and lossless o ya i have some Polk SR6500 in custom vented kickpanels and one sr124 subwoofer....let me know what you guys think of this experiment...gonna be busy for the next week but ill get around to it soon.


----------



## kejar31

Just make sure you get a good inverter.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

The car environment is an awful place for acoustics, imaging,eq the list goes on...but it's fun to have good audio in the car so.......try it out and see 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 kejar31 has a valid point...get a good inverter. You may have ground loop issues and other problems. It's tough to guess really what the result might be. Give it a try and report back...for all I know it might be really really good...

 Peete.


----------



## viscosity

ordered 2opa-sun & 2opa-earth... will hopefully have them soon when im back at newpaltz


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Whats the optimal voltage to run these things at or does that matter (as long as it's within spec) ?

 Thoughts on that Alex ?

 Thanks,

 Peete._

 

15.614858v. Anything else will yield an awful sound.

 [size=xx-small]Just kidding, folks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




[/size]

 ~Phewl


----------



## Enthusia

I just received my upgraded volume pot from Lawrence.
*
 Little review*

 The new volume pot has a longer shaft and is much more precise with the rotation, instead of a smooth motion when turning it, it has little clicks instead. The only cons is that I am getting a little static, trying to fix that right now and I need a new volume knob due to the longer shaft.

 edit: fixed static, the ground wire was not soldered on properly.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Take a hacksaw to your shaft? Trim it a little, file the rough edges off, and keep the "stock" look... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## Enthusia

Haha, that's the same exact thing my brother said, but I've already soldered everything in and I'm way too lazy to desolder : P. Anyhow, I've always wanted a golden volume knob ; ).


----------



## Trapper32

My "Sun"and "Earth" HDAMs arrived today. I swapped out my 627s in the DAC for the Sun module...wasn't expecting too much change in SQ because frankly, in the past, mods have usually resulted in subtle changes at best. I've been playing some very familiar music for the last two hours and the Sun is very definitely a nice improvement over the 627s. Not subtle at all....color me a believer....


----------



## Pricklely Peete

So far the HDAM in the Zero's DAC section is batting a 1000........not a single disappointed customer......I'm glad you guys are enjoying the discrete stages, makes me feel like a proud older brother or Uncle for some silly reason 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Enthusia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Haha, that's the same exact thing my brother said, but I've already soldered everything in and I'm way too lazy to desolder : P. Anyhow, I've always wanted a golden volume knob ; )._

 

You don't have to desolder. Use a jigsaw with a fine cut for metal blade and go slow. It'll cut through that shaft like butter. The larger gold knob is cool though...your call E 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## gavszero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow Penchuum cant resist the temptation to do comparisons with other DAC. I was at first reserved with the ZERO DAC and OPA Earth/Sun.

 For the Price that you pay for, I bet no other DAC can sound that great. I also heard PP has some mod to make the ZERO/Earth go one mile further.

 I started with the speaker system, I dont even want to go back to OPA 627 for the moment.

 I hope Gavin can give us some review on the buffer._

 

Hi ccschua, The buffer 3 is on order and he's building it now , said he'll need a 100 hours with test etc before sending .. So looks like it gets a decent burn in too ..

 Message from Kingwa

 Because Buffer3 is a new products, we need some time to make and running 100 hours, 
 I beg you can give a few days to us,
 can we send it Aug 25.?
 Thanks
 Kingwa

 So can't wait to try it out , appearently practically all cheap to medium priced Cd , DVD players , 
 DAC's output a high output impedance 200 + ohms . Does anyone know what the Zero output's from the RCA's ? The buffer drops it down to 22 ohms and suppose to be much better for the preamp . I'm going to put this buffer in between the Zero and preamp .. This could also be good between the Zero and the Little Dot i've read heaps about in the forum . Just do a google search Burson buffer and you'll get a list of interesting reading ..

 Cheers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Gavin ...

 P.S. Yes I do make my own beer at home , been brewing since 1991 ..


----------



## azncookiecutter

Got this e-mail from the guys at audio-gd, and English is definitely not their strong suit.

  Quote:


 Dual OPA-SUN price is USD33, extension lead,
 Postage is USD23.5 by express.
 Paypal's handling charge is 4%,

 SUM=58.76
 Thanks. 
 

Paid the $58.76, and I assume that they do come with the extension lead? The wording makes me kind of doubtful. Thanks!


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *azncookiecutter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got this e-mail from the guys at audio-gd, and English is definitely not their strong suit.



 Paid the $58.76, and I assume that they do come with the extension lead? The wording makes me kind of doubtful. Thanks!_

 


 Sure do...the cost without the extension is $30


----------



## azncookiecutter

Good point. Thanks.


----------



## Penchum

I didn't get anything in the mail. Damit!


----------



## AudioPhewl

Nor me. And I'm supposed to be out tomorrow test-driving a Stax rig! Oh... whatever will I do...






 ~Phewl.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *azncookiecutter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good point. Thanks._

 

Yeah fear not - my response was very very similar and though I didn't hear anything after the confirmation, I got mine today, less than 1 week after my order. About to go drop the Sun in...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I'm battin' O at the mail box too......supposed to get power cables today, maybe the HDAMs as well....I dunno.....tracking pages are useless sometimes..

 Peete.


----------



## kejar31

Ok I got home swaped out my 627's with the OPA-EARTH. My first impressions are just simply WOW 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 that made a difference. Everything sounds better , better soundstage better highs better mids etc. Well gota go for now, time to listen


----------



## AudioPhewl

Has anyone had a chance to try the Earth directly against the Sun module?

 ~Phewl.


----------



## ScottieB

Well poo... I'm bummed.

 I don't know if I just have bad luck or am just REALLY bad with my hands or what (maybe both) but well...

 I went to put the Sun unit in and noticed one of the wires on the lead (on the Sun end) was not connected. It then dawned on me how fragile the whole lead seemed to be. So I figured oh well I still have the earth, so using the sun as practice I set up a little stage for it to sit on and everything. Grabbed the Earth and went to connect it, being as gentile as possible - and one of the wires popped off the connector end this time. I didn't even touch it! So anyway, the space is VERY tight and the lead is just barely long enough to fit - it seems it will need some pull to be able to work - which means the soldering needs to be stronger. How did you guys get these things in there. And, more importantly, can I fix this, and how difficult is it? I've never soldered anything.


----------



## kejar31

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well poo... I'm bummed.

 I don't know if I just have bad luck or am just REALLY bad with my hands or what (maybe both) but well...

 I went to put the Sun unit in and noticed one of the wires on the lead (on the Sun end) was not connected. It then dawned on me how fragile the whole lead seemed to be. So I figured oh well I still have the earth, so using the sun as practice I set up a little stage for it to sit on and everything. Grabbed the Earth and went to connect it, being as gentile as possible - and one of the wires popped off the connector end this time. I didn't even touch it! So anyway, the space is VERY tight and the lead is just barely long enough to fit - it seems it will need some pull to be able to work - which means the soldering needs to be stronger. How did you guys get these things in there. And, more importantly, can I fix this, and how difficult is it? I've never soldered anything. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Wow that sucks! sorry to hear that!! I would email Kingwa and see if he can replace them.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

It can be fixed Scottie...although I'm surprised the wiring came off to begin with. Do you have a pic to post of the problem areas. That would help quite a bit I think.

 Learning to solder on something that small is a bugger. The trick to it is to be precise and quick. A 3rd hand tool or small pcb vice would be a valuable tool for working on these modules. You'll need to practice a little on a scrap pcb first until you get the hang of it (being precise and quick). The tip of the iron must be very small , a standard tip will be to big I would imagine. 25 or 35 watt iron should be good enough...you don't want too much heat either.

 Email Kingwa and tell him what has happened so he can address the assembly issue and QA the finished product a little closer before it ships.

 He may even send you another module as a replacement, you never know.

 Peete.


----------



## kejar31

ScottieB:
 I tell you what, if you are unable to get it replaced I will ship you my extra after I decide on which on I am going to use permanently. I will only ask that you pay for shipping.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kejar31* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ScottieB:
 I tell you what, if you are unable to get it replaced I will ship you my extra after I decide on which on I am going to use permanently. I will only ask that you pay for shipping. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

Wow, thanks. I'm gonna see what I can do to replace/fix it, though... posting pics in a few...


----------



## ScottieB

Some photos of the damage...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Man that's mighty cool of you kejar31 !!! That's what I love about this place so much...all the Zero nuts are great people !!!!

 Peete.


----------



## kejar31

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Some photos of the damage..._

 

They can both be fixed quite easily. If you cant get them replaced you might be able to find someone locally that can fix it as well. Either way if you cant get them replaced my offer stands.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

That will be dead easy fix Scottie. Here's what you do. Strip an 1/8 inch off the ends that need to be reattached. Twist and pre solder the bare wire ends (tinning the leads it called) once you have them tinned just place the iron tip on the area where the break occurred making sure just to heat up the solder around that area. It takes only a second or two, make sure you have the tinned lead ready to go into the solder once it melts a little. Once they merge remove the heat source hold the wire in place until it solidifies and your done. Do that for both breaks. Make sure you don't melt or touch anything other than what needs to heated. Think about your method and practice it first with scrap wire and a scrap pcb that has wire soldered in. break the wire on the scrap pcb by twisting it. Then strip it, tin the end and use the method mentioned to reattach...you'll get the hang of it darn quick. The whole process should only take about 3 seconds to complete (once you have the iron pre-heated and the leads stripped and tinned ). Prep and practice are 90 % of the job.

 If you need further explanation feel free to ask any questions...

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

One thing I've noticed of late with my HDAM, it's very touchy about being seated perfectly. If your getting odd drop outs and distortions, pops crackles and such, the HDAM may not be seated properly in the socket. Mine has done this when it was moved back and forth from the house to the cottage. My extension lead is acting funny so I have to repair it. Most likely have cold solder joint(s) somewhere under the heat shrink...which end I don't know.....just thought I'd mention that.

 A bit quirky at times when moved around only. Once seated properly and then left alone it's fine ...

 Peete.


----------



## ScottieB

Excellent thanks for that. So I need to get an iron - figure I should have one - this whole process has started something I think... heh. Anyway, I'm gonna try Radio Shack right by work tomorrow - what should I get? I know they have a few different ones - I've seen them there, just never looked very closely.


----------



## alxwang

PP, This is the info you want:

 Earth: As long as the input volt > +=12V. there should not be any obvious difference. And this requirement is matched to regular OP. If the volt <+-12 the sound will be soft.

 Sun: Best volt will be +-15 to +-18 and the difference compare to Earth is the Sun output sound will be changing with volt change.

 Sorry about my English.


----------



## alxwang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Excellent thanks for that. So I need to get an iron - figure I should have one - this whole process has started something I think... heh. Anyway, I'm gonna try Radio Shack right by work tomorrow - what should I get? I know they have a few different ones - I've seen them there, just never looked very closely._

 

I bought my first iron from Radio Shack(19$) and it dead in 2 month. I end up to buy a good one with station and temperature adjustment from a local electric shop which cost me 69$ I think. It works fine for me for 3 years already. My suggestion will be do not go cheap because it will last longer and compare your equipment it just cost a little. The reason I got temperature adjustment is I need do some xbox solder job.

 You also need some other stuff too. Just ask the stuff in shop.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alxwang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PP, This is the info you want:

 Earth: As long as the input volt > +=12V. there should not be any obvious difference. And this requirement is matched to regular OP. If the volt <+-12 the sound will be soft.

 Sun: Best volt will be +-15 to +-18 and the difference compare to Earth is the Sun output sound will be changing with volt change.

 Sorry about my English._

 

Thanks Alex, interesting ...tweak the voicing slightly with the adjustable pots near the 2 regs on the audio out section 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think but I'm not 100% sure the analog section is at 12V or 15V. I'll check with the MM in a minute or two.Lid is off the Zero since my extension lead went pppffffft. It's 15.2 V DC on the left reg, right pin, 13.2 far left pin. can't measure the other one at the moment but imagine it be exactly the same numbers. The H/Amp regs are all 15.2 V DC on the center pins.

 Hope that sheds a little more light on things.

 Your English is good Alex, way better than my Chinese 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Excellent thanks for that. So I need to get an iron - figure I should have one - this whole process has started something I think... heh. Anyway, I'm gonna try Radio Shack right by work tomorrow - what should I get? I know they have a few different ones - I've seen them there, just never looked very closely._

 


 Alex is right about the cheap irons...with the amount of soldering I do I should have bought a decent weller station years ago but keep buying the cheap Rat Shack pencil irons...I'm on my 4th one in 2 years.....anyway if you don't plan of doing much soldering other than repairs every once in a while when you have to...a 35 watt pencil iron will do just fine. Get yourself some good 60/40 solder. The silver stuff is more trouble than it's worth when using a cheap iron. You also need a good set of wire strippers, I use a multi-tool, it can strip,crimp, and cut. Another good thing to have on hand is heat shrink variety pack (different sizes). What else...... Side cutters are always good to have.

 Can't think of anything else other than a good vice/3rd hand tool. It's a very handy device to have. It holds your part in place while leaving your hands free to do the job properly. Has a built in magnifying glass too...which is essential for me since my eyes aren't what they used to be 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Good luck and feel free to ask for help any time !!!

 Take some pics and post them when you've completed the repair and before you power up so I can scrutinize the solder joints. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Summer Jazz

Hi all,
 Isn’t it better to get the Sun or Earth without the extension lead? Lesser resistance. The only thing is to fabricate a new cover to accommodate the height of the OPA.
 I have not order the OPA yet. 
 Just my thought.


----------



## kejar31

We are talking about a cable that is about as long as the length of my index finger. I dont think there will be any problem.


----------



## alxwang

Maybe I am crazy. After I got that info then I did some measurement in my zero. 
 Then I am think about order 4 of this:
ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1






 Now I am waiting for the confirmation about this 10$ bard is good for earth and sun.

 I think I am crazy.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Alex is right about the cheap irons...with the amount of soldering I do I should have bought a decent weller station years ago but keep buying the cheap Rat Shack pencil irons...I'm on my 4th one in 2 years.....anyway if you don't plan of doing much soldering other than repairs every once in a while when you have to...a 35 watt pencil iron will do just fine. Get yourself some good 60/40 solder. The silver stuff is more trouble than it's worth when using a cheap iron. You also need a good set of wire strippers, I use a multi-tool, it can strip,crimp, and cut. Another good thing to have on hand is heat shrink variety pack (different sizes). What else...... Side cutters are always good to have.

 Can't think of anything else other than a good vice/3rd hand tool. It's a very handy device to have. It holds your part in place while leaving your hands free to do the job properly. Has a built in magnifying glass too...which is essential for me since my eyes aren't what they used to be 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Good luck and feel free to ask for help any time !!!

 Take some pics and post them when you've completed the repair and before you power up so I can scrutinize the solder joints. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

OK, but do I need all that right now? What do I need just for this simple repair? I can get the rest at another time... iron and strippers what else for this? Thanks for all the help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh and where can I find that vice/3rd hand tool?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Summer Jazz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi all,
 Isn’t it better to get the Sun or Earth without the extension lead? Lesser resistance. The only thing is to fabricate a new cover to accommodate the height of the OPA.
 I have not order the OPA yet. 
 Just my thought._

 

Yes your are correct on both points. The best solution is to remove the socket and solder the HDAM directly onto the pcb. I think I'm going to do this. That will mean making a new top as you have correctly pointed out. I have been thinking about smoked acrylic like the Keces Dacs with a little tower section for the HDAM.....haven't found the time yet to go get a piece of acrylic....should look really cool if done like that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK, but do I need all that right now? What do I need just for this simple repair? I can get the rest at another time... iron and strippers what else for this? Thanks for all the help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh and where can I find that vice/3rd hand tool?_

 

You need strippers, 35 watt pencil iron, solder and a highly recommended but optional item, the 3rd hand tool. All that is at Radio Shack 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alxwang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe I am crazy. After I got that info then I did some measurement in my zero. 
 Then I am think about order 4 of this:
ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1





 Now I am waiting for the confirmation about this 10$ bard is good for earth and sun.

 I think I am crazy.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Your not crazy...that is an excellent upgrade well worth installing if it meets spec. I'm highly interested in what you've dug up Alex. Keep me informed please 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 At 10.50 a pop these make economic sense for the Zero...nice find Alex...audio-gd is a tweakers gold mine it seems 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

15V - 56 ma x 2 for Earth dual channel module and 15V - 44 ma x 4 for 2 x Sun dual channel modules in the H/Amp section ?

 Removal of stock regs in analog section and the 4 regs in the H/Amp section ? 

 Is that the general idea behind this tweak Alex or are you just talking about the 4 regs in the H/Amp section ?

 Thanks for continuing to answer my dumb questions 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## alxwang

My current understanding is on unit can supply 1 earth or sun. So In zero will need 3. I need 4 because I got 2 sun and 2 earth. 1 earth and 2 sun will goto one zero.
_The two stabilized voltage supplies (positive and negative each or two positive voltage) on the board are completely separated, which can be used dependently or combined. _
_The max current is less than 300MA and the max output voltage is less than 55V_

 I guess it will works but I do not know how to control output volts yet also I need a confirmation about:
 To use them together will it be just simple like solder ping 4,8 to the this board.



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_15V - 56 ma x 2 for Earth dual channel module and 15V - 44 ma x 4 for 2 x Sun dual channel modules in the H/Amp section ?

 Removal of stock regs in analog section and the 4 regs in the H/Amp section ? 

 Is that the general idea behind this tweak Alex or are you just talking about the 4 regs in the H/Amp section ?

 Thanks for continuing to answer my dumb questions 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Cool !!, thanks for the clarification Alex.....

 Peete.


----------



## alxwang

Got back some info:

 For the earth, should use the 10.50 one and that board should order by tell him the volts needed - no adjustment.

 For the sun, if I really want to have some fun about adjust volt to hear different output sound, I need spend 24$ to get this one:
ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1





 Also there are some new stuff(should be better) only displayed in chinese site now:
 A Type








 marantz CD7




http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/diy/ZD/ZDBA.GIF
 C Type


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Just checked the mail box and the two power cables had arrived. They were supposed to be delivered and signed for...Can Post are a bunch of wankers....now to install the new cables on the Zero and MK III....my god these bastards are big...LOL, looks pretty odd plugged into the little Zero IEC !!

 I'll give more detailed SQ impressions in a couple days. I'm almost positive the Zero will improve with a good quality semi hi end (for me at least) power cable...these are 80US a pop with noise filter networks on both ends. Large gage 6N copper conductors, cable diameter is 15 mm. Darn things weigh in at .80 kilos each...that's a lot of copper 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For those that are curious they are called YYW HAC001 from YYW's Hi Fi series. I'll see If I can find a review link...

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Very cool Alex !!! Looks like we both have our work cut out for us researching these new choices 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Fun fun fun 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Man these YYW cables have some serious grip on the IEC ends...both ends actually.

 First impressions to follow in 25 minutes.

 One cable is for the Zero the other for the Mk III.

 Peete.


----------



## Currawong

If you want to compare DACs, Larry (HeadPhoneAddict) made a brilliant post here in the Zero vs. Duet thread. Note that the Apogee Duet isn't a dedicated headphone amp, but is a portable 4ch professional recording device.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Thanks Currawong !!!!...I'll have a look. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Initial impressions of YYW HAC001 mains cables (please note there is also YYW HAC001 on the LD MKIII for this initial observation) ...nice improvement. Dynamics, clarity and sound stage have improved to a new and obvious higher level of sophistication....wow I didn't think these cables would have this kind of impact and they have been in use for only 20 + minutes...the improvement is immediate and quite noticeable ....well worth the $$ I think. I'll give them a few hundred hours cook time before giving final critical report. These are fairly cheap for such a well built 6N copper cable. The IEC and male plug ends are gold plated to boot !!! Kinda stiff though.

 Heres a link to the seller for pics of them and more detailed info..

YYW HAC001 1.8m (6 ft) Shielded Power Cord with Filters - (eBay.ca item 140258637231 end time 18-Aug-08 17:38:04 EDT)

 Peete.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Hey Pricklely Peete about how much have you spent on the Zero? Also is the money spent worth it for the upgrade in sound?


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Another question, is the Starving Student headphone amp better than the one from the Zero?


----------



## lynxkcg

You're about to compare apples and oranges, tube vs solid state.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

That is true but I was just wondering if the Starting student headphone amp would be a better option to drive my HD650 instead of just using the Zero. What would be better Zero>hd650 or Zero>SSHA>HD650.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Pricklely Peete about how much have you spent on the Zero? Also is the money spent worth it for the upgrade in sound?_

 

About 25.00 US extra in parts...and now an Alps pot from Lawrence so add 10.00 US (not including the price of the HDAM). Surprisingly little really. The DIY end of it makes upgrades fairly cheap. 

 Is it worth it ? OMG yes......just wait a little longer, a major DIY upgrade will be announced soon. Best part of all is, it's a cheap but extensive overhaul of the Zero that takes it from good to outstanding in SQ.

 Peete.


----------



## ccschua

Hi Scottie,

 So sorry to hear the wire dropping out of case. If you order OPA Earth or Sun, ask Kingwa to give u this cable.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Another question, is the Starving Student headphone amp better than the one from the Zero?_

 

I dunno I've never heard that amp. The Zero's H/Amp can be bettered with a stand alone dedicated tube or SS amp but you already know that...still it's pretty good for what it is. The DIY upgrade I talked about earlier improves the H/Amp section considerably...so much so that it has prompted me to get the Alps pot. Some further possible tweaks (outside of the major upgrade currently in final testing and evaluation between Penchum and I) are being looked at with Alex and I as you can plainly see in the thread. 

 The cheapest tweak for you would be an Alps pot upgrade at 10 US that would yield a decent improvement SQ wise.


 Peete.


----------



## viscosity

wheres a good place to buy an alps pot aside from lawrence (didnt have in stock and was uncertain of restock)


----------



## Pricklely Peete

It's a special order item that Lawrence carries. A standard 100K alps won't fit in the Zero. Just email Lawrence and ask him to let you know when he has more so you can get one...

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Scottie,

 So sorry to hear the wire dropping out of case. If you order OPA Earth or Sun, ask Kingwa to give u this cable.




_

 

CC thats how I ordered mine, except there are 2 pairs of everything in that pic that I have on the way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.

 PS: Those tiles are so clean you could eat off of them


----------



## falke401

I just ordered the Zero amp from Lawrence! Cant wait till it gets here!


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_CC thats how I ordered mine, except there are 2 pairs of everything in that pic that I have on the way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.

 PS: Those tiles are so clean you could eat off of them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 








 I thought that's what I WAS getting... I've been in contact with them and sent the photos. I will try to fix it myself but he said if I have problems they will send another. No doubt I'll be back in a bit with questions.


----------



## ccschua

Wow, the OPA at audio-gd is running low on stock. new order need to wait before stock is back.

 Busy as usual.


----------



## ScottieB

Ok First question...

 I've been searching aorund for soldering tips and found some stuff, but it seems to be mostly components to boards - like that go through the board and you solder on the other side. Not uch spefic to soldering wires to components.
 Peete you said I'd need to get solder with everything... so I'm confused. So I need to remove the solder that is already there and use new stuff, or can I just reattach the wire to what is already there? If I need to remove the old stuff, should I get one of those remover tools as well?

 Thanks,
 ScottieB


----------



## Enthusia

Scottie you can remove the solder with a solder sucker or a solder wick, which is what I use. Basically it is a string of copper. You heat the string of copper over the old solder with your soldering iron and the old solder once heated enough will remove itself from the component and stick onto the copper wick. It's pretty simple. Also you should never use old solder, always use new solder, that's what I've always been taught.


----------



## ccschua

just some more photo of OPA


----------



## davve

I got my sun and earth today, so now i have HDAM, Earth, Sun. The green led on the sun is pretty nice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Mine came with extension cable :S


----------



## ScottieB

OK so went to radio shack and got everything... except the 3rd hand thing - guy there said they stopped carrying it a few years back. Anyway is there some tip someone can give as to what to do instead, or maybe somewhere else that might caryy something like that... I'm determined to do this tonight! heh...

 EDIT: ok I went to RadioShack.com and found this:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...entPage=search

 Is that it? If so they have one at another Radio Shack nearby - but it is a little pricey if I can do okay without it... any suggestions?


----------



## cmdrmonkey

I was wondering if you guys might be able to help me as I am a bit of a newb. I recieved my Zero DAC from Lawrence a few days ago with upgraded opamp chips (he used a combination of the 627s (DAC) and 637s (headphone Amp)). It sounds fantastic with my HD570s. But last night I noticed a loud crackling sound out of the right channel that comes up every few seconds when my headphones are just idling with no sound playing. I plugged in my 2.1 speakers (Klipsch GMXs) and they have the same problem. Tried unplugging the optical cable running from the onboard Intel audio on my motherboard to the DAC, and the problem persists, so it's definitely the unit itself. I also noticed by touching the top of the unit that it's getting exceptionally hot and producing a faint "burning electronics" smell. I tried unplugging the power cable and letting it sit overnight. Initially the problem seemed to be gone, but I queued up a bunch of songs and let it play for awhile, and again it got hot and started making the crackling sound. Any idea what's going on? Is the unit overheating like I suspect? Should I contact Lawrence Chan, and how is he as far as repairing/replacing things? I'm really not looking forward to having to wait for weeks and weeks for the thing to ship from Hong Kong if this has to be replaced.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK so went to radio shack and got everything... except the 3rd hand thing - guy there said they stopped carrying it a few years back. Anyway is there some tip someone can give as to what to do instead, or maybe somewhere else that might caryy something like that... I'm determined to do this tonight! heh...

 EDIT: ok I went to RadioShack.com and found this:
RadioShack.com - Cables, Parts & Connectors: Tools & soldering equipment: General tools & tool sets: Kronus™ Helping Hands

 Is that it? If so they have one at another Radio Shack nearby - but it is a little pricey if I can do okay without it... any suggestions?_

 

That's the one Scottie. You don't need one but it's nice to have one. I went without one for years and then got one and wondered why I waited so long to get it...but I do a lot of DIY stuff so I need it.

 You can also get away without removing the old solder. That isn't a really big issue although Enthusia is correct about doing what he suggests as well. I've never noticed a difference in sound in any solder type so I remain unconvinced the new silver solder etc makes a difference at all....another thing to note..if you heat the old solder all of it will melt so it's just resetting the joint with the new section of wire in it. The tinned end of the stripped wire will be more than enough extra solder that you'll need anyway. Remember these solder points are tiny so they don't need much solder to begin with nor do they require a lot of heat to reset....get the skinniest tip you can find...you can use a standard tip...it'll work you just have to be very careful with placement and very steady with the hand holding it...as in don't move at all....

 Look up tinning wires on google so you get the idea on how to do it. The tinning process with a new iron and tip is as follows.....plug in your new iron..let it preheat for at least 5 minutes, while waiting for it to preheat get the sponge on the tray/holder damp with cool water (buy a stand/holder if the iron doesn't come with one).....once the iron is up to temp take a small amount of new solder and tin the tip on the new iron...make sure you cover the point and angled area...let it sit for a few seconds..then wipe clean on the damp sponge...you are now ready to tin the bare leads you've stripped earlier in the prep process...

 During the tinning procedure...only use enough solder to do the job..less is better than more since the original solder will still be in place. Look up cold solder joint while your at it...read up and do the fix either tonight once you understand it all or when your comfortable and confident you've got all the angles covered. It really is much harder to describe than it is to do 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Let me know how you get along 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cmdrmonkey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was wondering if you guys might be able to help me as I am a bit of a newb. I recieved my Zero DAC from Lawrence a few days ago with upgraded opamp chips (he used a combination of the 627s (DAC) and 637s (headphone Amp)). It sounds fantastic with my HD570s. But last night I noticed a loud crackling sound out of the right channel that comes up every few seconds when my headphones are just idling with no sound playing. I plugged in my 2.1 speakers (Klipsch GMXs) and they have the same problem. Tried unplugging the optical cable running from the onboard Intel audio on my motherboard to the DAC, and the problem persists, so it's definitely the unit itself. I also noticed by touching the top of the unit that it's getting exceptionally hot and producing a faint "burning electronics" smell. I tried unplugging the power cable and letting it sit overnight. Initially the problem seemed to be gone, but I queued up a bunch of songs and let it play for awhile, and again it got hot and started making the crackling sound. Any idea what's going on? Is the unit overheating like I suspect? Should I contact Lawrence Chan, and how is he as far as repairing/replacing things? I'm really not looking forward to having to wait for weeks and weeks for the thing to ship from Hong Kong if this has to be replaced._

 

Take the cover off and carefully re-seat the opamps in their sockets, they probably came loose a little during shipment. That should take care of the problem. Note the orientation of the opamps before re-seating them in the sockets. All markings (crescent, dot, circle face towards rear of unit if the front faceplate is towards you).

 Google opamp orientation if you need further instruction. I have to pop out for a couple hours at 2 pm today so I will answer any more questions you may have until them....many fellow Zero owners are equally helpful....welcome the Zero owners group...pull on a set of cans and pop a cd in..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## ScottieB

Thanks, Peete. I have been doing tons of research already and will practice a few times before I do the real thing. Here's a question - what's my margin for error? Like if I botch it on the first attempt with the solder that's already there, how feasible is it to just remove it and start all over? How sturdy should this thing be once it is fixed? It is pretty tough gettng this thing in the Zero so I need them to have some strength - certainly more than they have now!

 As for the helping hands thing, I don't do a lot of DIY stuff, but I may start - if I didn't get it, do you have any ideas? What did you do before you had it?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I hope that's it CDR....it sounds like what happens with mine if has travelled a bit and the HDAM gets shifted during transit...I reseat mine and it's good to go...

 It's possible the 627's or 637's are defective...but lets take it one step at a time...try the suggested re-seating of the opamps..then report back

 Peete.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Wow Pricklely Peete you amaze me with your knowledge about this Zero Dac unit. I'd like to thank you for answering so many questions here and helping people out. Anyways when are you going to announce your upgrade for the HD/amp section of the Zero. I already ordered my zero and am just waiting for the thing to arrive. I ordered with "head-fi" deal plus the Alps pot upgrade.


----------



## kejar31

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got my sun and earth today, so now i have HDAM, Earth, Sun. The green led on the sun is pretty nice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Mine came with extension cable :S_

 


 Well how did the HDAM's sound??


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks, Peete. I have been doing tons of research already and will practice a few times before I do the real thing. Here's a question - what's my margin for error? Like if I botch it on the first attempt with the solder that's already there, how feasible is it to just remove it and start all over? How sturdy should this thing be once it is fixed? It is pretty tough getting this thing in the Zero so I need them to have some strength - certainly more than they have now!

 As for the helping hands thing, I don't do a lot of DIY stuff, but I may start - if I didn't get it, do you have any ideas? What did you do before you had it?_

 

It'll be pretty sturdy Scottie. With all very light gage multi strand wiring the stripping process and solder process have to be done with precision and care. Be careful not to cut any strands of wire when taking the plastic off the wire...I suspect the person that did the stripping cut most of the wire when he or she stripped that end(s) making for a very weak connection. If you strip the cable ends without cutting the wires you'll have a very strong connection certainly strong to with stand repeated installations and removals. Like anything delicate it's best to be careful as you know.

 You won't botch it on your first crack...the tinning process makes the wire solid so you'll have a hard time messing it up.Once you practice a couple times you'll see what I mean.

 Before I had the 3rd hand tool I struggled big time using anything I could to hold, prop on an angle....the piece being worked on. Mostly I used old cut ends of pressure treated 2x4 from the scraps left over from deck and fence builds...cut some grooves in them to make a crude holder, but it was always a half ass ed solution ...the magnifying glass on the 3rd hand is invaluable for me now since my vision isn't what it used to be after years of doing this stuff...I have to wear 5 X power reading glasses all the time now for work on any pcb no matter how big or small...

 Does that help ? I think I've covered most of it...let me know if I haven't...my head is a little fuzzy today...only had 3.5 hours of sleep last night ( 5 th night in a row of 4 hrs or less).....working my ass off to get everything ready to go in Sept 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I gotta go....sheesh time flies...be back in a bit...

 Peete


----------



## wae5

For this 562 page thread to mean something to anyone other than the core group of DIYers, it needs a summary. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems you start with a Zero ($130), upgrade the pot ($10), add either a Sun or Moon amp board ($30 each) and then add some special connectors. Then you have a super DAC and HP amp for about $200.

 I realize this may take away some of the DIY fun, but wouldn’t a Behringer SRC-2496 Ultramatch Converter for $130 be almost as good and be even more fun because it has many more buttons and comes with a one year US warranty?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow Pricklely Peete you amaze me with your knowledge about this Zero Dac unit. I'd like to thank you for answering so many questions here and helping people out. Anyways when are you going to announce your upgrade for the HD/amp section of the Zero. I already ordered my zero and am just waiting for the thing to arrive. I ordered with "head-fi" deal plus the Alps pot upgrade._

 

If everything goes as planned (and it is so far) the first week of Sept...is the target ...

 Thanks for the kind words 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've learned a mountain of stuff since joining back in the winter, but 30 + years of being a tweaker and audiophile have helped quite a bit...I sure don't know everything...but I would like to try and learn it all (if that's possible in a single life time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )

 I appreciate the kind words, thank you...I like helping other audio nuts and DIY tweakers...if I can...

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wae5* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For this 562 page thread to mean something to anyone other than the core group of DIYers, it needs a summary. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems you start with a Zero ($130), upgrade the pot ($10), add either a Sun or Moon amp board ($30 each) and then add some special connectors. Then you have a super DAC and HP amp for about $200.

 I realize this may take away some of the DIY fun, but wouldn’t a Behringer SRC-2496 Ultramatch Converter for $130 be almost as good and be even more fun because it has many more buttons and comes with a one year US warranty?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 You have a point about the thread, that will be taken care of in a new DIY thread to come. Behringer ? LOL....enjoy that Chinese built Behringer....OMG irony of ironies...sorry I don't mean to offend...I couldn't resist.

 I gotta go....be back in a few.

 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks, Peete. I have been doing tons of research already and will practice a few times before I do the real thing. Here's a question - what's my margin for error? Like if I botch it on the first attempt with the solder that's already there, how feasible is it to just remove it and start all over? How sturdy should this thing be once it is fixed? It is pretty tough gettng this thing in the Zero so I need them to have some strength - certainly more than they have now!

 As for the helping hands thing, I don't do a lot of DIY stuff, but I may start - if I didn't get it, do you have any ideas? What did you do before you had it?_

 

Scottie,

 I've been soldering for years and haven't touched any 3rd hand tools. They do look useful, but it's easy enough to substitute when you don't have the right tools available.

 What I'd do:-

 Trim 1-2mm(no more) of insulation off that broken wire.
 Find an old hardback book, around the size of a sheet of paper. Something big enough to...
 Tack the unit down onto the book, using a strip of insulation tape or masking tape.
 Tack down one side of the plug that sits inside the opamp socket.
 I use 18w soldering iron for jobs like this. 25w and above can quickly cause damage, much below 18w and you'll struggle to get the heat in quickly enough.
 Tin the end of the wire - touch the soldering iron on the bare wire, whilst adding a touch of solder. You won't need a lot.
 Use left hand to bring wire to the broken section on the opamp socket.
 Push it into place, touch the joint for around a second - just long enough for the solder to flow and make a solid connection.

 You really will find it easy after a little practise. And you'll soon learn to spot when the solder joint has been successfully made - you don't need any extra heat than that which is required.

 Un-tack the unit and socket. Apply a - very - small amount of stress onto the new solder joint to ensure it's not about to fall off. Job done. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you're cautious, you're welcome to mail it to me(I'm in the UK) and I'll take care of it for you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## AudioPhewl

As an aside from the above post, I received my HDAM modules today. I've only tried the Sun out, but it's a big leap forward in just about everything. Will try and have a proper listen tonight and post some more useful comments 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Whichever unit isn't needed by me will be up for grabs by a UK Zero owner, for cost of post and a beer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Alternatively, feel free to buy me my Stax rig... no? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Didn't get any Stax gear today as their demonstrator unit was not turning on. Have paid for one, and will have it on a 30-day home-audition from sometime next week, with a little luck. Can't wait! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## ScottieB

^ Thanks, AP. And thanks for the offer - but I think i can handle this - just need a touch of practice - no problem! I'll let you know how it goes.


----------



## AudioPhewl

^Antex irons are cheap and very good. Have a wide range of tips available for them. It's worth spending the small amount extra over a cheapy RadioCackShack job.

 Have had mine for 6 or 7 years now, and it's been used a lot. Works like a charm.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## cmdrmonkey

Thanks for the advice. One of the opamps was part of the way out of its socket. Actually, to be more specific, the chip he mounted the opamp on was bigger than the others, too big actually, and it was leaning against the metal thing for the headphone jack only part of the way in the socket, so I replaced it with one of the other opamps mounted on a smaller PCB. The crackling has gone away now that the opamp in that slot is seated properly. But what's distressing is that I saw that all the chips he used were marked as BB OPA 627s despite me having paid for 637s in the headphone amp section. We're only talking a few bucks difference and the chips are very similar from what I'm told, but still, that's kind of sleazy, unless of course it was an honest mistake or a miscommunication on his part. Maybe he thought he could take me for a ride because I probably seemed naive when I asked which amps were best.

 Oh well, the thing still sounds pretty damn amazing IMO. But as I said, I'm a newb, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I have very little experience with high-end audio/headphones, aside from my HD570s, which I've heard described as "bright" and underpowered without an amp, and which probably aren't all that great compared to the 600s and 650s you guys are packing.


----------



## AudioPhewl

^Mine shipped with stock opamps, despite paying for the uprated units. Not sure how many others have experienced the same?

 OPA-Sun and Earth - they're difficult to compare back-to-back. There is an enormous difference in gain between the two units, making it difficult to get a "like for like" comparison. Initial impressions - I prefer the Sun. It's more forward, it pushes detail to you in a far more upfront fashion than the Earth.

 It sings. Lovely sounding little thing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Regarding the capacitor mod - I'm struggling with this. The capacitor is on both voltage feeds... so I'm struggling to see why a 0.1uF -> 1uF film cap is desireable. Surely a good, bigger capacity electrolytic is going to do more good here than a small film one?

 They're lousy - it's dark here, and my camera is quite cack. Pictures of my credit-card insulator-housing - works well, easy to make...













 Obviously, those huge capacitors weren't standard. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## viscosity

anyone have 3 hdams modules to test replacement on all 3 opamps? (dac and headamp) I ordered 4 and was thinking something like OPAearth for DAC and 2 OPAsuns for head amp.. or vice versa.. using OPAsun for DAC and 2 OPAearth for headamp.

 also how big a difference in the actual audio quality would a better volume pot provide?



 as for placement.. im gonna try and use velcro and maybe some electrical tape to prevent shortage. gonna be tight tho with 3


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cmdrmonkey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the advice. One of the opamps was part of the way out of its socket. Actually, to be more specific, the chip he mounted the opamp on was bigger than the others, too big actually, and it was leaning against the metal thing for the headphone jack only part of the way in the socket, so I replaced it with one of the other opamps mounted on a smaller PCB. The crackling has gone away now that the opamp in that slot is seated properly. But what's distressing is that I saw that all the chips he used were marked as BB OPA 627s despite me having paid for 637s in the headphone amp section. We're only talking a few bucks difference and the chips are very similar from what I'm told, but still, that's kind of sleazy, unless of course it was an honest mistake or a miscommunication on his part. Maybe he thought he could take me for a ride because I probably seemed naive when I asked which amps were best.

 Oh well, the thing still sounds pretty damn amazing IMO. But as I said, I'm a newb, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I have very little experience with high-end audio/headphones, aside from my HD570s, which I've heard described as "bright" and underpowered without an amp, and which probably aren't all that great compared to the 600s and 650s you guys are packing._

 

Tell Lawrence you got 627's instead of 637's in the H/Amp section like you asked for. The best combo seems to be HDAM in the DAC and LT1364's in the H/Amp section. The good thing is you can get samples from Linear for free to try out in either section....It may have been an honest mistake..the writing on those small smd chips is tough to read or he ran out of 637's and substituted with 627's...not that I' making excuses...I'm glad the crackles have disappeared 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Email him right away about it.


 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *viscosity* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyone have 3 hdams modules to test replacement on all 3 opamps? (dac and headamp) I ordered 4 and was thinking something like OPAearth for DAC and 2 OPAsuns for head amp.. or vice versa.. using OPAsun for DAC and 2 OPAearth for headamp.

 also how big a difference in the actual audio quality would a better volume pot provide


 as for placement.. im gonna try and use velcro and maybe some electrical tape to prevent shortage. gonna be tight tho with 3_

 

I'll be testing both ways when my 4 modules arrive. I already have an HDAM in the dac section so I'll be able to do all combinations. it will be sometime before I get around to writing a proper review about them though...lots of other stuff taking priority right now...but I will do it soon rest assured 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^Mine shipped with stock opamps, despite paying for the uprated units. Not sure how many others have experienced the same?

 OPA-Sun and Earth - they're difficult to compare back-to-back. There is an enormous difference in gain between the two units, making it difficult to get a "like for like" comparison. Initial impressions - I prefer the Sun. It's more forward, it pushes detail to you in a far more upfront fashion than the Earth.

 It sings. Lovely sounding little thing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Regarding the capacitor mod - I'm struggling with this. The capacitor is on both voltage feeds... so I'm struggling to see why a 0.1uF -> 1uF film cap is desireable. Surely a good, bigger capacity electrolytic is going to do more good here than a small film one?

 They're lousy - it's dark here, and my camera is quite cack. Pictures of my credit-card insulator-housing - works well, easy to make...













 Obviously, those huge capacitors weren't standard. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 

AP sometimes one has to take a leap of faith and forget what the brain is telling them. Trust me when I say the 1 uf cap tweak works...you haven't seen the size of this cap...it's massive...as big as 3300uf 25V Nichicon PW.

 I was dubious of it as you are now...check Burson Audio for the tweak for greater details...anyhow I tried it figuring I have a whole of pile these caps on hand what have I got to loose....so I installed it and let it burn in for over 250 hours ..the 1 uf cap went through it's known stages and in the end when it had formed...there was a noticible increase in transient speed, clarity, and dynamics...I'll be darned if I can explain why exactly..but for a 50 cent tweak I"ll take it. I used Russian K42Y-2 160V PIO mil spec NOS cap....what else can I say...try it..don't try it....either way is cool bro 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

What is this 50 cent tweak you are talking about peete?


----------



## ScottieB

VICTORY!!!!!!!!!!!!

 Ha! Well I did it. Honestly the hardest part was stripping that dang tiny little wire. I practiced about 25 times on ll different wires and STILL snipped the end the first time! The thing is super thin and TOUGH - much tougher than other cables I tried.

 Anyway, worked out in the end - Sun is in there and working, sound fantastic - just what I was missing (I think so far... time for burn-in!). Attaching to the unit itself was MUCH easier than attaching to the adapter (or plug or whatever). Oh I did this with no helping hand tool, just APs advice for taping. 

 Thanks to everyone for the input and advice. Soldering is ridiculously easy and much less expensive than I thought. Oh and no pictures because A - I'm NOT taking this thing out anytime soon, and B - I don't feel like being scrutinized today!


----------



## kejar31

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_VICTORY!!!!!!!!!!!!

 Ha! Well I did it. Honestly the hardest part was stripping that dang tiny little wire. I practiced about 25 times on ll different wires and STILL snipped the end the first time! The thing is super thin and TOUGH - much tougher than other cables I tried.

 Anyway, worked out in the end - Sun is in there and working, sound fantastic - just what I was missing (I think so far... time for burn-in!). Attaching to the unit itself was MUCH easier than attaching to the adapter (or plug or whatever). Oh I did this with no helping hand tool, just APs advice for taping. 

 Thanks to everyone for the input and advice. Soldering is ridiculously easy and much less expensive than I thought. Oh and no pictures because A - I'm NOT taking this thing out anytime soon, and B - I don't feel like being scrutinized today! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Cool!!


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Nice Scottie how long did it take you to finish that repair?


----------



## ScottieB

Not more than 5 minutes to do both units. Very simple - if very very small. In one day I bought a soldering iron, learned to use it, and repaired my discrete opamps. Not a bad day, I say.


----------



## espressogeek

Where is a good place to buy one of these DACs?
 Thx


----------



## LeBuLLeT

I got mine from Lawrence since he will upgrade your opams. 

 Anyways that is pretty quick and good job on the repair. What phones are you using right now and what music are you listening to right now. I want hear your description to see if they sound similar to what I am hearing.


----------



## ScottieB

I assume you were asking me -- using my HD600s almost exclusively these days (except when I need closed phones). I'm not great at these descriptions of what I hear, but I'd say it just sounds more - lively. More dynamic. There's more punch to the lows, more conrol in the mids and hi's - seems like the slight sibilance I was getting in vocals is gone, too. I don't use the amp very much at all (go to my LD MKIII) so I can't speak to that yet, but as a DAC the Sun is easily better than the OPA627.

 Thought I should add that when I told Kingwa I was able to fix it, he said that was great news, apologized for the poor quality of the leads, and offered a discount on future purchases. Very nice gesture, I thought. Greeeaatt.... just what I need, an excuse to buy more stuff!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_VICTORY!!!!!!!!!!!!

 Ha! Well I did it. Honestly the hardest part was stripping that dang tiny little wire. I practiced about 25 times on ll different wires and STILL snipped the end the first time! The thing is super thin and TOUGH - much tougher than other cables I tried.

 Anyway, worked out in the end - Sun is in there and working, sound fantastic - just what I was missing (I think so far... time for burn-in!). Attaching to the unit itself was MUCH easier than attaching to the adapter (or plug or whatever). Oh I did this with no helping hand tool, just APs advice for taping. 

 Thanks to everyone for the input and advice. Soldering is ridiculously easy and much less expensive than I thought. Oh and no pictures because A - I'm NOT taking this thing out anytime soon, and B - I don't feel like being scrutinized today! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

But you must submit... to the central scrutinizer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ( a line from Frank Zappa )

 Great job Scottie...!!!! It's fun too..in a weird sort of (geek like) way isn't it ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 No pics needed..just optional...but I don't blame you for not wanting to disturb it...

 Peete.


----------



## kejar31

Ok, I have taken some time to listen to both the OPA-SUN and OPA-EARTH and here are my early impressions. Notice that all impression were done with HD580's and neither the Sun nor the Earth were properly burned in. 

 The Earth has a slightly more bright presentation with a lager soundstage. In fact the soundstage is so spacious on the earth you sometimes second guess the fact that you are actually listening to headphones and not speakers. I have also noticed the earth's sound is slightly more textured. 

 The Sun is a slightly more dark intament presentation. The soundstage is still really good but is not as wide. The bottom end on the Sun is slighly more pronounced which can be desired on certain music. 

 Overall I have decided that I enjoy the Earth better then the Sun in the DAC section of my Zero. Although the Sun does have some pretty cool green lights.

 Oh yea I also installed the units using cardboard very similar to what AudioPhewl did one page back.


----------



## Currawong

kejar31: That's interesting - I put the Sun in first and will have to have a go with the Earth soon. I agree about the bottom end with the Sun - the very low notes have a lot of power, whereas the midbass I feel is slightly less than it was with opamps.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But you must submit... to the central scrutinizer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ( a line from Frank Zappa )

 Great job Scottie...!!!! It's fun too..in a weird sort of (geek like) way isn't it ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 No pics needed..just optional...but I don't blame you for not wanting to disturb it...

 Peete._

 

It IS kinda fun... and I'm most definitely a geek 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's kind of empowering to know how many more things I can fix - and how EASY it is! Like in a twisted kinda way I don't have to be quite so gentle with things anymore. Or I should say, I no longer have to worry about my meat hands (which aren't capable of being gentle).


----------



## ianp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But you must submit... to the central scrutinizer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ( a line from Frank Zappa )

 Great job Scottie...!!!! It's fun too..in a weird sort of (geek like) way isn't it ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 No pics needed..just optional...but I don't blame you for not wanting to disturb it...

 Peete._

 

I too am with SUN and EARTH today. I have the new SUN sat in one ZERO and my previous burnt in HDAM (AKA EARTH) sat in another DAC. After listening to some ORB, AMY WINEHOUSE and BAHAUS I can't say that there is an awful lot between them at this point. I'll have to burn in the SUN unit for longer of course, but at this point I have to give the nod to HDAM-EARTH.

 Keep it greasy, so ...


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_kejar31: That's interesting - I put the Sun in first and will have to have a go with the Earth soon. I agree about the bottom end with the Sun - the very low notes have a lot of power, whereas the midbass I feel is slightly less than it was with opamps._

 

You know, although I haven't tried my Earth and probably won't for a while, when I first read the descriptions I thought I'd like the Earth more - sounded like it may be more neutral, and perhaps have more detail.

 Then I read that most were going with the Earth first and a few early but glowing reviews of the Sun - so I figured I break the mold and go Sun first. I likey so far!


----------



## ianp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kejar31* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Although the Sun does have some pretty cool green lights._

 

I'm been looking at using an acrylic cover on another project. An acrylic cover for the ZERO may work. Maybe even an entirely acrylic case


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Good job kejar31....these things are difficult to describe and have it mean anything. You managed to give it real meaning...thanks

 Peete.


----------



## kejar31

You know I noticed something else when using the SUN. When using it in line out mode to my speaker rig for burn-in, I noticed I was still getting a small amount of the signal leaking into my headphones. I'm wondering if others have noticed as well? It does not happen with the Earth.


----------



## kejar31

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good job kejar31....these things are difficult to describe and have it mean anything. You managed to give it real meaning...thanks

 Peete._

 

Thanks Peete! You can call me Justin though


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ianp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I too am with SUN and EARTH today. I have the new SUN sat in one ZERO and my previous burnt in HDAM (AKA EARTH) sat in another DAC. After listening to some ORB, AMY WINEHOUSE and BAHAUS I can't say that there is an awful lot between them at this point. I'll have to burn in the SUN unit for longer of course, but at this point I have to give the nod to HDAM-EARTH.

 Keep it greasy, so ..._

 

Peter Murphy !!!! Great voice on that skinny person 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Dances like a bat on acid though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kejar31* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Peete! You can call me Justin though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ok Justin...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kejar31* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You know I noticed something else when using the SUN. When using it in line out mode to my speaker rig for burn-in, I noticed I was still getting a small amount of the signal leaking into my headphones. I'm wondering if others have noticed as well? It does not happen with the Earth._

 

Most likely the gain difference between the two modules. My best guess so far since my modules haven't arrived yet.....

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ianp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm been looking at using an acrylic cover on another project. An acrylic cover for the ZERO may work. Maybe even an entirely acrylic case 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Cool.....I like the acrylic look as well...kinda late 60's early 70's sorta thing..oops dating myself a little....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## alxwang

Actually I am think why not just cut the top panel of zero then extend some room for HDAM and power board. Maybe an 400 rpm 120mm fan on to will be nice too.

 PP: I order the power board already. The un-release version. One of my friend in China help me to order them and will ship them to me with Zero. They do not have US$ price for them yet.

 When they arrived my Zero will have two power supply - I do not know how to get power from power supply build in zero and I think 2 power input zero will be fun.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alxwang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually I am think why not just cut the top panel of zero then extend some room for HDAM and power board. Maybe an 400 rpm 120mm fan on to will be nice too.

 PP: I order the power board already. The un-release version. One of my friend in China help me to order them and will ship them to me with Zero. They do not have US$ price for them yet.

 When they arrived my Zero will have two power supply - I do not know how to get power from power supply build in zero and I think 2 power input zero will be fun._

 

I agree...that should be a big improvement....cool ...I'm totally interested in this...

 Thanks for taking the chance Alex...who knows where it will lead...that's the fun part..other than listening once things are installed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## stellablues

Anyone interested in selling an OPA-Earth that they might have laying around after choosing the Sun?


----------



## Summer Jazz

Hi all,
 Can the OPA-Sun or OPA-Earth dual channel be installed directly into the socket without the extension leads? I mean are they obstructed by the surrounding components?
 Another question: overall is the Zero DAC & the OPA-Sun or OPA-Earth run hot? 
 Thinking of modifying the cover with a small fan installed like what someone has mentioned.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

I think you can directly install the OPA-earth into the socket without extension leads but you cannot put the cover on the Zero if you do install that way.


----------



## Penchum

I have a couple of thoughts on some of the mods you guys are talking about doing to your Zeros. They might not mean anything, and might be totally worthless, but here goes:

 If heat (normal lid installed) is an issue, why not drill air holes down low say in the bottom of the case, toward the front of the Zero, so that natural convection will pull in room temp air at the bottom front, and push hot air out the existing vents in the top toward the rear?

 The box the Zero is built into, serves to keep it clean, make it operational, and to protect it from outside interference (to a degree), and allow for stacking of components. If you have an HDAM sticking out of the top of the unit, how many of these things have now been violated?? For me, it just seems counter productive to subject the Zero to possible interference.

 If I was going to make more room in the Zero for modules and other upgrades, I would be looking to move the transformer out of the case and into it's own dedicated (protected) case. This might be much easier to accomplish than other removals, and it would provide a bunch of room in the Zero's case.

 Just some thoughts. Have a good one!


----------



## alxwang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 If I was going to make more room in the Zero for modules and other upgrades, I would be looking to move the transformer out of the case and into it's own dedicated (protected) case. This might be much easier to accomplish than other removals, and it would provide a bunch of room in the Zero's case.

 Just some thoughts. Have a good one! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Exactly! 
 Do you know where I can buy pre-build good transformer at reasonable price which can ship to Canada? I am think move the transformer to another box plus add two more for the head phone amp.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alxwang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Exactly! 
 Do you know where I can buy pre-build good transformer at reasonable price which can ship to Canada? I am think move the transformer to another box plus add two more for the head phone amp._

 

No, but I bet Lawrence would know. Shoot him an email and see what he can come up with.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

The gold or silver standard size rack mount that LC sells would be ideal for what you want to do Alex...it will allow for any number of config variations and look good when finished...for 60 US it's a pretty a good deal. You could direct mount the HDAMS...by taking the sockets out and soldering the HDAM directly to the pcb...that is the best solution by far with regards to HDAM installation. Of course any case you want to use is fine...I am merely offering some suggestions for your consideration.

 I may do this later on myself when you have worked out how to implement the cards from audio-gd. I don't think it's possible to separate the digital from analog power supplies on the main pcb without radical trace cutting (if it even can be done), although replacing the 4 stock regulators on the main pcb with modules from audio-gd should improve SNR and SQ. To what degree these cards will improve things is a complete unknown at this point. From and engineering standpoint refining the power supply is always a good thing or so I'm told 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 In the interests of current happenings this type of project for me is on the back burner for quite some time and may be gilding on the lily so to speak in light of the current revisions of my Zero. It may be better to use a different main board pcb design for a Super build such as the DIY DAC project I'm currently working on.. just some additional thoughts. I think the Zero though would certainly be worthwhile for what your considering Alex...combined with what Pench and I have done..it could be a giant killer (in it's price point vs SQ )...a term I rarely use because of it's contentious nature.

 Peete.


----------



## ScottieB

Hi all,

 Thought I'd elaborate more on my impressions of the sun. In my first post after getting it installed, I said "now I am hearing what I was missing" or something like that. What I mean by that (which solidified as I stayed up entirely too late listening to music and playing Team Fortress) was that the little details are now there - things like reverb and the decay of sounds like cymbals and echo sound MUCH more realistic and noticeable. I'm a detail junkie and there is instantly more noticeable detail with the Sun unit. Another way to describe it would be that it sounds more well-rounded. The sound is fuller, lacking any signs of "digital harshness" that were there with the OPA627. Also seems to have more punch - like it is "faster" if that makes sense. My tastes in music are so diverse I confuse even myself sometimes, but I've yet to try anything that doesn't sound better... So what if I was way late to work this morning! I can't wait to get home and listen MORE! Oh and I need those Heavy achievements - the SANDVICH will be MINE!


----------



## alxwang

I am not sure where I should put this question but I try here first:

 Will iBasso D2 Boa USB DAC performance better then Zero(earth/sun upgraded) with HD580/denon D2000? For sure I am talking about Zero's headphone output.

 Anyone has them or has done any comparetion?
 Thanks.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_AP sometimes one has to take a leap of faith and forget what the brain is telling them. Trust me when I say the 1 uf cap tweak works...you haven't seen the size of this cap...it's massive...as big as 3300uf 25V Nichicon PW.

 I was dubious of it as you are now...check Burson Audio for the tweak for greater details...anyhow I tried it figuring I have a whole of pile these caps on hand what have I got to loose....so I installed it and let it burn in for over 250 hours ..the 1 uf cap went through it's known stages and in the end when it had formed...there was a noticible increase in transient speed, clarity, and dynamics...I'll be darned if I can explain why exactly..but for a 50 cent tweak I"ll take it. I used Russian K42Y-2 160V PIO mil spec NOS cap....what else can I say...try it..don't try it....either way is cool bro 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

I don't disbelieve it - I can see perfect logic in having a store of power so close to the HDAM, especially considering it'll likely be pulling more juice than an opamp would. And I can see the benefits of having that power source filtered.

 But... this is why I'm having problems understanding the mod. Surely it makes more sense to have an electrolytic - or huuuuge film capacitor - there to provide the above benefits? I'm struggling to see what good a small film capacitor can bring, given the current requirements of the HDAM...

 Maybe it's just me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Scottie - glad you sorted it out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. The first thing is always the hardest, you'll quickly get the hang of soldering and be wanting to take on new projects! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ The sound is fuller...
 ...Also seems to have more punch - like it is "faster" if that makes sense..._

 

Spot-on, in my humble opinion with my limited experience of the two. Delivery feels fast and faultless, like everything is timed to perfection. And it does so without losing any detail or definition. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## richierich

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alxwang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am not sure where I should put this question but I try here first:

 Will iBasso D2 Boa USB DAC performance better then Zero(earth/sun upgraded) with HD580/denon D2000? For sure I am talking about Zero's headphone output.

 Anyone has them or has done any comparetion?
 Thanks._

 

You are comparing a portable amp to a full sized amp which are in the same price range. Great portable amps cost much more.


----------



## alxwang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *richierich* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You are comparing a portable amp to a full sized amp which are in the same price range. Great portable amps cost much more._

 

So you mean maybe something like pico can compare? If that's true I think I just get another zero then.


----------



## DaMnEd

First let me just say that I never heard the PICO. 
 I do not think a portable amp, even the mighty PICO, will be able to drive the HD-580 properly, maybe it can do a somewhat decent job, but it won’t drive the senns to its full potential. 

 Second, with the money the PICO costs, you can get a much better amp, not a portable one, but a much better amp, no doubt about it. Third, I think you would have to wait some time on the pre-order list, unless you where contemplating a used one.

 If you search on the forum for PICO+HD650/600/580, you will find that most would agree that a portable setup, even the PICO, would not be ideal.

 Again, for the cost of a PICO amp(w/DAC) you can get ZERO+Little dot MKV/MKIVse, and these two amps (or one from darkvoice) will most certainly drive the Seens and any other cans you may want to try, even 600 impedance cans.

 And I know for a fact that a Ibasso boa wont properly drive any 300ohm, I've tried, no good.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

AP I think the key to the tweak is not the uf size (although I agree in principle with your assertions) but the voltage rating. The key requirement from Burson said no less than 50 V ...I don't think getting any larger than 1uf will help...it might actually put too much strain on the voltage regs as they are now...they get really hot...feel em...

 Just a uneducated guess...I think I'll fire off a email to Burson and see what they say about it..

 I wonder if one of the massive teflons I have would prove the theory ? They are 600V and ten times the size of the 1uf PIO but 1/4 the uf value...seems like a waste of a very expensive cap though.....problem with that is burn in takes 700 + hours...maybe longer

 Just thinking out loud...

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Weird...DHL says scheduled for delivery (since last night) and yet nothing all day and it's getting darn close to 6 pm...ah well looks like no modules for the weekend unless they deliver on Saturdays...which is a bad word in Canada....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Peete.


----------



## Kasp3r

Just got my Zero, and it sounds wonderful. It can really drive my headphones well and the bass and resolution is wonderful. 

 The only two disappointments is that it cannot play SACD and the headphone nob around 12-4 o clock feels like im grinding against sand.


----------



## alxwang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kasp3r* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_and the headphone nob around 12-4 o clock feels like im grinding against sand._

 

X2.

 Live with that or replace that. I choose to live with that for now.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

SACD is a locked data stream like DVD-A with MLP...the license for such a thing is very expensive and would not be granted anyway...I know of very few standalone DAC's of any price range that can decode hi rez DSD or LPCM MLP signals...so being disappointed in something that would never happen in a DAC for 139 US is a false negative in reality. Just thought I'd point that out...besides SONY has dropped all support for SACD and DVD-A died a couple years back. I was very upset over this since it represented a quantum leap forward in SQ when the discs were in fact recorded at 24/96 to begin with and were not just dubs from the archive from which the CD masters were made...that was it's initial downfall...DVD-A anyway...and the utter lack of software for ages...at least SACD is better supported but with SONY pulling out those tittles will dry up to a puddle as well....sorry for the blah blah blah....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They should have stuck with 2 channel to boot...the 5.1 thing is very hard to get right in a multi use room...I know I'm still trying with DVD-A....that also put the public off..having to buy all that extra gear..even though it wasn't absolutely necessary. Some hi rez discs had 2 channel mixes..but not enough did IMO and that irked me....so I was forced into 5.1 on some recordings which as mentioned earlier put loads of traditional audiophiles off as well as noobs....nevermind the added expense, but for some truly comical FX 5.1 mixes...another head scratch moment IMO, that seemed to be fianl straw with the Hi End community. Why SACD's foibles were overlooked and DVD-A's derided has me wondering why SACD was embraced by the hi end elite...for SACD had just as many terrible 5.1 mixes ...something rotten in Denmark. I mean it was this smae community that complained about high freq noise/hash present in the DSD decoding method ....something the LPCM MLP format lacked entirely...again..something rotten in Denmark.....alas...I yap too much 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have to admit if the system and room are set up right, a good intelligent 5.1 mix is spine tingling...in either format save DVD-V or Dolby Digital..sorry 16/48 ain't hi rez..

 My 2 cents whether anyone wanted it not.....


 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The key requirement from Burson said no less than 50 V_

 

Yep. Because it's tied to both + and -, the voltage the capacitor will see is double everything else on the Zero PCB. 16v/25v/35v caps are fine between ground and one power source, but the two back-to-back will double the voltage seen to 30v, or 36v on devices running at +/-18v.

 Hence, IMO, the 50v requirement.

 Though it would be interesting to see what Burson have to say on the matter. They're surely more familiar with the device than me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 I think I'll sit on the fence for a while before ordering a suitable capacitor. Though I may head down to Maplin and see what electrolytics they do. Darned Farnell/RS have a better choice but aren't local... have to spend £20 + VAT to get free delivery. And I'm not paying £6 to have a pair of capacitors delivered 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alxwang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_X2.

 Live with that or replace that. I choose to live with that for now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Just pull the knob 1mm further down from the shaft. Or, even better, remove it and put a drop of silicon sealant on the end of the shaft. It'll keep the knob further away from the faceplate.






 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Hey 802...er 3 posts 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep. Because it's tied to both + and -, the voltage the capacitor will see is double everything else on the Zero PCB. 16v/25v/35v caps are fine between ground and one power source, but the two back-to-back will double the voltage seen to 30v, or 36v on devices running at +/-18v.

 Hence, IMO, the 50v requirement.

 Though it would be interesting to see what Burson have to say on the matter. They're surely more familiar with the device than me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 I think I'll sit on the fence for a while before ordering a suitable capacitor. Though I may head down to Maplin and see what electrolytics they do. Darned Farnell/RS have a better choice but aren't local... have to spend £20 + VAT to get free delivery. And I'm not paying £6 to have a pair of capacitors delivered 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl._

 

Interesting....yeah I'm not holding my breath I'll get an answer since I called them on their HDAM scam...but you never know. I have a feeling it acts like a tiny current reserve while filtering the DC a little more of ac component if there is any at that point of the circuit. I doubt there is any but extra filtering is sometimes a good thing...going overboard with filtering is as bad as not having enough..so it's a fine line.

 Why not pick up a Vitamin Q or Aerovox for cheap from your local TV/Amp repair shop...good NOS PIOS are hard to beat 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why not pick up a Vitamin Q or Aerovox for cheap from your local TV/Amp repair shop...good NOS PIOS are hard to beat 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Peete._

 

Can't think of any local TV repair shops these days. We live in a throwaway culture over here... nothing much gets repaired these days.

 There was one place here, but it closed at the end of last decade. Can think of another in a nearby town, but I reckon they'll have closed down as well. We used to have rental shops too, but TVs and the like are so cheap these days, I guess nobody needs to rent them any more.

 Just been watching my weekly Star Trek:- Enterprise. We get two episodes per week, both after midnight on a Friday evening. What irks me is when they show a normal episode, then the first of a two-part one - I now have to wait a whole week to find out the conclusion. Most annoying. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Congrats on the big 800 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kasp3r* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got my Zero, and it sounds wonderful. It can really drive my headphones well and the bass and resolution is wonderful. 

 The only two disappointments is that it cannot play SACD and the headphone nob around 12-4 o clock feels like im grinding against sand._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alxwang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_X2.

 Live with that or replace that. I choose to live with that for now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hey guys, pull the stock knob straight off, then re-insert it and stop before it hits the face plate. Sometimes, the knob is on too tight, and it will rub the faceplate until you correct it. Hopefully, this helps some.


----------



## AcidMelon

This is going to sound terribly noobish, but here it goes. In the review there is always two opamps mentioned, does that mean the DAC and Headphone section each have thier own opamp and you should change both, even if you'll only be using the headphone out. If so, what is the best combo for warm, full bodied sound and industrial/rock and roll at the same time. Thanks.


----------



## AudioPhewl

DAC has one opamp.
 Headphone amplifier stage uses two.

 Both sets of opamps are duals.

 DAC output, whether to the headphone amplifier or the RCA sockets on the rear of the casing, comes through the DAC opamp before it goes anywhere else. The headphone amplifier a pair of opamps for driving the headphones, but the signal is still processed by the DAC opamp.

 Hope that helps clarify 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. It made sense as I was typing, but reading back... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can't think of any local TV repair shops these days. We live in a throwaway culture over here... nothing much gets repaired these days.

 There was one place here, but it closed at the end of last decade. Can think of another in a nearby town, but I reckon they'll have closed down as well. We used to have rental shops too, but TVs and the like are so cheap these days, I guess nobody needs to rent them any more.

 Just been watching my weekly Star Trek:- Enterprise. We get two episodes per week, both after midnight on a Friday evening. What irks me is when they show a normal episode, then the first of a two-part one - I now have to wait a whole week to find out the conclusion. Most annoying. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Congrats on the big 800 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl._

 

I hate that with reruns...you should uh...procure the the entire DVD collection and watch at your leisure 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's getting harder and harder to find local repair shops that deal with tubes and amps because of the state of things as you aptly noted. Oddly it's near impossible to find this type of repair shop in a large population urban center but in the boonies they seem to be fairly prevalent still (in Canada and US anyway)...luckily I live in a town small enough to have two shops...one being a swap shop/ pawn/tv amp repair, the other a music store that deals in vintage amps/instruments...pawned gear etc...I pop in every once in while to see what's what...left my name and number in case either come across something of interest. 

 Any pawn shops in your area AP ? 


 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Hiya Pench !! 

 Man o man the Zero cooks now....I'm loving it
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 How are you doing ?

 Peete.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi all,

 Thought I'd elaborate more on my impressions of the sun. In my first post after getting it installed, I said "now I am hearing what I was missing" or something like that. What I mean by that (which solidified as I stayed up entirely too late listening to music and playing Team Fortress) was that the little details are now there - things like reverb and the decay of sounds like cymbals and echo sound MUCH more realistic and noticeable. I'm a detail junkie and there is instantly more noticeable detail with the Sun unit. Another way to describe it would be that it sounds more well-rounded. The sound is fuller, lacking any signs of "digital harshness" that were there with the OPA627. Also seems to have more punch - like it is "faster" if that makes sense. My tastes in music are so diverse I confuse even myself sometimes, but I've yet to try anything that doesn't sound better... So what if I was way late to work this morning! I can't wait to get home and listen MORE! Oh and I need those Heavy achievements - the SANDVICH will be MINE!_

 

Nice observations SB! I can't wait to test the Sun now!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hiya Pench !! 

 Man o man the Zero cooks now....I'm loving it
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 How are you doing ?

 Peete._

 

Hey PP!

 Gotta second the "Zero cooks now". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've verified my modded Zero is mature and stable. It is very addictive! The DAC output to my MKV has pushed everything into a new dimension in listening. More proof that the better the source, the better the output to my headphones, thanks to the MKV. It takes a really decent amp like the MKV to amplify the improvements without any loss or colorization. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm getting ready to do a few swap outs with my other unmodified Zero. I want to try and put a definitive word on the Opamp vs HDAM performance. If it goes well, we'll have a realistic "yard stick" on what should be expected when a person decides to move from Opamps, into the HDAM world. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The last couple of weeks have been rough, so my postings and project participation has been interrupted quite a bit. I'm trying to pull it all back together though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This did give my modified Zero a chance to mature, so that is a good thing. Total mature time was around the 250 hour mark, give or take. The HDAM cap mod had the longest mature time (and I don't know why other than size).


----------



## AcidMelon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_DAC has one opamp.
 Headphone amplifier stage uses two.

 Both sets of opamps are duals.

 DAC output, whether to the headphone amplifier or the RCA sockets on the rear of the casing, comes through the DAC opamp before it goes anywhere else. The headphone amplifier a pair of opamps for driving the headphones, but the signal is still processed by the DAC opamp.

 Hope that helps clarify 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. It made sense as I was typing, but reading back... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 

Thank you!


----------



## direcow

Hey guys, finally got my SUN and EARTH, and after a bit of figuring things out, popped the SUN into my DAC, and moved the 1364s to the amp, replacing the 1469.

 Everything sounds... better! I can't put my thumb on it, but I think it's something about the texture. Maybe it's the 1364s, haha... Just realised the 1364s are running a little hot tho.

 Just a few questions tho...
 1) Should I rest my SUN on a credit card or box too?
 2) Where should the earth wire go?
 3) Those trying for 3 discrete opamps... where do you find the space for them?

 Thanks!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *direcow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys, finally got my SUN and EARTH, and after a bit of figuring things out, popped the SUN into my DAC, and moved the 1364s to the amp, replacing the 1469.

 Everything sounds... better! I can't put my thumb on it, but I think it's something about the texture. Maybe it's the 1364s, haha... Just realised the 1364s are running a little hot tho.

 Just a few questions tho...
 1) Should I rest my SUN on a credit card or box too?
 2) Where should the earth wire go?
 3) Those trying for 3 discrete opamps... where do you find the space for them?

 Thanks!_

 


 Hi Direcow,

 I'll give it a go at 1,2 and 3, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 1- Anything that insulates the HDAM electrically is a good idea if you plan on installing it with an extension cable and lie it down in the space between pcbs. You can use anything on hand that will work...

 2-The Earth wire can attach to the nearest screw that holds a pcb in place. There are a few spots choose from, with the H/Amp screw on the left side being the most popular or convenient..

 3- I have no idea how I will fit all three...but there is just enough room I think...we'll see soon enough when my modules arrive (they were supposed to be delivered today...bummer).

 Hope that helps a bit. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Check these out Alex....I forgot about these little gems and just revisited the bookmarked page earlier on in the evening...these might be just the ticket for the 4 other regs on the main pcb....

Welborne Labs PSREG Kit

 Peete.


----------



## alxwang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Check these out Alex....I forgot about these little gems and just revisited the bookmarked page earlier on in the evening...these might be just the ticket for the 4 other regs on the main pcb....

Welborne Labs PSREG Kit

 Peete._

 

Looks good. But I am doing something else and you will think I am really crazy - LOL. I am working on a computer power supply !! Now it is still testing and measure. I got some transform from local shop which are very cheap. The solder job is done. Now I am just testing again and again before I hook up something to do the damage test - for sure not the Zero - just some junk stuff to make sure the PS and transform works. 

 A computer PS can handle a motherboard works stable so I really want to try.


----------



## direcow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Direcow,

 I'll give it a go at 1,2 and 3, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 1- Anything that insulates the HDAM electrically is a good idea if you plan on installing it with an extension cable and lie it down in the space between pcbs. You can use anything on hand that will work...

 2-The Earth wire can attach to the nearest screw that holds a pcb in place. There are a few spots choose from, with the H/Amp screw on the left side being the most popular or convenient..

 3- I have no idea how I will fit all three...but there is just enough room I think...we'll see soon enough when my modules arrive (they were supposed to be delivered today...bummer).

 Hope that helps a bit. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Thanks Peete!

 1) I'll go see what I can scrounge up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 2) So I just kinds screw the screw onto the wire tip? Wouldn't have to do any soldering, would I?
 3) Heh... I'll wait for updates! Hopefully I'll get some news by the end of the 2 for 1 sale...


----------



## sokece

I got these OPAs two days ago. Be careful guys, The extension cable very thin and easy to break. I have to re-solder a few times. I also recable the ground cable because too short. Overall, I like both sound and it is better than OPA627. The sound between SUN and Earth almost identical. It is hard to pick one or the other. For now, I'm gonna leave the OPA Earth in the Zero.


----------



## Currawong

I've just switched back to the OPA Sun. I'm finding it more open in the top end than the Earth and that it's punching the base more strongly. Note that I'm using Denon's through a MKV. It reminds me a little of the "loudness" effect the LM4562's gave me when I put them, but with more detail. I hesitate to say that the Earth is "softer" but that's the only word I can find right now. The Sun, on some tracks, is rather sibiliant.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_luckily I live in a town small enough to have two shops...one being a swap shop/ pawn/tv amp repair, the other a music store that deals in vintage amps/instruments...pawned gear etc...I pop in every once in while to see what's what...left my name and number in case either come across something of interest. 

 Any pawn shops in your area AP ? 


 Peete._

 

Nah, nothing to speak of. All we have over here is a chain of such shops, called "Cash Converters". They buy electronics for bottom-end money and sell it back to the original customer with a mark-up, or if they leave it long enough, it'll go out on display to the general public. But they don't really repair much, it's not like the pawn shops I've seen in US films.

 My country sucks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## espressogeek

I tried to find a user by this name and no luck. Can someone help me get in contact with him?
 Thanks

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got mine from Lawrence since he will upgrade your opams. 

 Anyways that is pretty quick and good job on the repair. What phones are you using right now and what music are you listening to right now. I want hear your description to see if they sound similar to what I am hearing._


----------



## AudioPhewl

Lawrence(not recommended by me) - eBay My World - biglawhk
 Good seller for standard unit - eBay My World - snow48_6

 There is another, but I can't remember the name of the seller. Something along the lines of wsz0406, or something similar...

 ETA - here we are:
http://myworld.ebay.com/wsz0304

 ETA - another seller of the basic package, as well as competing products:-
http://www.audiophilechina.com/cp-sh...id2=37&s_id=40

 Also, here is the seller for the HDAM modules:-
http://www.audio-gd.com/enweb/pro/diy/OPA.htm

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Doorknob

I've been reading about this Sun and Earth upgrade but can't find a place where to buy them.

 Any sites that ship them to USA?


----------



## AudioPhewl

Here you go:-

ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1

 I reckon it's about time the first post of this thread had this information put in it... we're often asked for sellers details and HDAM suppliers...

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Doorknob* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been reading about this Sun and Earth upgrade but can't find a place where to buy them.

 Any sites that ship them to USA?_

 

audio-gd

 Woops, AP beat me to it!


----------



## AudioPhewl

AP, the fastest gun in the west... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alxwang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looks good. But I am doing something else and you will think I am really crazy - LOL. I am working on a computer power supply !! Now it is still testing and measure. I got some transform from local shop which are very cheap. The solder job is done. Now I am just testing again and again before I hook up something to do the damage test - for sure not the Zero - just some junk stuff to make sure the PS and transform works. 

 A computer PS can handle a motherboard works stable so I really want to try._

 

Thats actually a really good idea Alex....comp power supplies are noisy beasts. 

 Here's a thought with regards to the wellborne site's reg board and transformer....I bet a reg board and transformer just for the DAC HDAM would be a very good tweak. The 15V or 18V @ 1A should do the job nicely. Could run all three like this off the sep reg and tranny 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think I'll try it...what would you suggest, stick with 15V or go with 18V ? I'm thinking 15V but would like to hear your input on the idea please 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.

 PS AP what are your thoughts on this idea ?


----------



## alxwang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thats actually a really good idea Alex....comp power supplies are noisy beasts. 

 Here's a thought with regards to the wellborne site's reg board and transformer....I bet a reg board and transformer just for the DAC HDAM would be a very good tweak. The 15V or 18V @ 1A should do the job nicely. Could run all three like this off the sep reg and tranny 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think I'll try it...what would you suggest, stick with 15V or go with 18V ? I'm thinking 15V but would like to hear your input on the idea please 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.

 PS AP what are your thoughts on this idea ?_

 

What most important is find the sweetest volts for the HADM. I assume it is not 18 or 15 maybe 16.37? I think it is depend the listener's feel at all. But I at least need a get a adjustable power input so I can test it myself then ...

 For the PS of Computer I found out get one from used small factor IBM computer(used) will be best. They are around 150-200 watt and really quiet and small. I used a wood jewelry box and put 2 PS in which give me 8 15V output and 2 5V output. About the power cable just get some computer power connection cable and take off one side to solder.

 I got 2 from local used computer ship which cost me 10$ total.

 My problem now is the part I got for adjust volt is piece of crap and I am going to return them.

 Any suggestion to get a small cheap but good board can let me adjust volts at a stable current? I want something can output me from 15.0-18.0 with 30 steps? I am asking too much I guess.


----------



## alxwang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mars attacks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can someone please explain what's the point in adding new power supply circuitry for the analog stage? The Zero's transformer already has a separate winding for the analog section, which feeds its own independent voltage regulation, so why add yet more heat sources inside that already buring-hot box?_

 

Let me try:

 the sun/earth is designed to replace op627/ne5532 but it will performance different when the input volts changes.

 Also no one really know how much the PS in zero can output and it is always good idea to have pre-amp and headphone amp have it's own power input I guess.

 The last reason is do it to have some fun.


----------



## Summer Jazz

Finally got my Zero DAC from a local seller. Here’s my first impression.
 Removed the 6 mounting screws for the cover, found one of them wrong type (wrong thread). I might consider replacing all of them with the copper type. 
 On the inside, most but not all the components are neatly soldered onto the board. 
 I connect it to my universal player Oppo DV-970HD using the supplied optical cable. I never own an optical cable before. I found the connection point kind of loose (both at the player & DAC side). Perhaps this is normal. If this is true, I rather go for the coaxial digital cable. 
 Now for the sound using a budget Philips headphone. Good stereo separation, good clarity & better bass extension. BTW, mine is the stock op-amp (2604). 
 When I switched off the main, there’s a pop sound from the headphone, is this normal? 
 Will plan to set it up & output to my stereo amp & speakers in the coming days.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alxwang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Let me try:

 the sun/earth is designed to replace op627/ne5532 but it will performance different when the input volts changes.

 Also no one really know how much the PS in zero can output and it is always good idea to have pre-amp and headphone amp have it's own power input I guess.

 The last reason is do it to have some fun. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well Audio-gd has remarked the supply voltage to the OPA (output stage) is important. It does affects the sound quality.

 The reason in adding the power supply to the output stage (instead of the power supply provided by the ZERO DAC) is also to provide the stability of supply in times of heavy drain to current (in that split second).

 A lot of highend DAC has so many power supply groups that amaze me. If u check audio-gd DAC, there is no less than 15 DC power supply group (and 50,000 uF capacitor storage lol)


----------



## Pricklely Peete

That pretty much has convinced me to go with a separate HDAM reg board and transformer CC. Should be a very easy installation but will be darned tight in that stock chassis.

 Alex did you say you live in the GTA area ? There is an amazing electronics store on Queen St W near CityTV that has everything under the sun, vintage and new. I used to live within walking distance of it years ago but now live 60 klms away so it's no longer practical for me to visit...

 Peete.


----------



## wpfloridian

Hi guys,

 I just ordered my own Zero... thank you all for the informative posts! I a have a Grado amp driving a pair of GS1000s. What chips do you guys recommend for my headphones?


----------



## AcidMelon

Sorry if this has been discussed before, I got a headache after 300 pages. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Can I use three OPA-SUNs in the Zero? Or perhaps a OPA-EARTH in the DAC section and TWO OPA-SUNs in the headphone section? If you can use more than one do you combine the ground and then attach to a central point or no?


----------



## alxwang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mars attacks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I appreciate the effort 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but, in my opinion:

 A well-designed opamp shouldn't vary its performance with supply voltage that much; if it does, it has some problems. Typical opamps at least don't do that. Anyway the Zero's +/-15V should be perfect for most opamps and especially for these discrete ones; except for those that don't tolerate above +/-12V like the AD8620, for instance.

 Secondly, if the Sun and Earth really take 22 and 28 mA each respectively, then the Zero's power supply will have no problems really to feed them properly.

 The only benefit I see is when using the internal headphone amp, since the lower draw from the +/-15V regulators might just yield some microscopic sonic benefit...


 For the sheer fun part, I have no problems to agree. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I can not comment whether the sun/earth is well designed because my limited knowledge..
 But it will sound different with different volt. Which one is best is based on personal feeling. Just like the cable of cans everyone has his own best choice but really none cable will be best.
 Basically try it and find out the best for myself is the main reason to do it.


----------



## alxwang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AcidMelon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry if this has been discussed before, I got a headache after 300 pages. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Can I use three OPA-SUNs in the Zero? Or perhaps a OPA-EARTH in the DAC section and TWO OPA-SUNs in the headphone section? If you can use more than one do you combine the ground and then attach to a central point or no?_

 

you can do whatever you want as long as keep two same module in headphone amp section. Which combo is better - you decide.


----------



## alxwang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That pretty much has convinced me to go with a separate HDAM reg board and transformer CC. Should be a very easy installation but will be darned tight in that stock chassis.

 Alex did you say you live in the GTA area ? There is an amazing electronics store on Queen St W near CityTV that has everything under the sun, vintage and new. I used to live within walking distance of it years ago but now live 60 klms away so it's no longer practical for me to visit...

 Peete._

 

I am not - I am in central of Canada. So I do not have a lot shopping resource here. I just visit the shop again and get back something else - I will try them today. Thanks PP for the info anyway.


----------



## fdbf

hi everyone... excuse for my noob question... but i can't manage the whole thing.

 i'm from italy, i have just bought the zero...

 i want to upgrade it...

 but

 the thread is so big and i'm losing myself in it...

 the best solutions for upgrade are 2xOPA627 + 2x LT1364 or 1x HDAM + 2xLT1364 right? 

 1) where can i buy this components? 

 2) how much do they cost?

 3) the HDAM goes in the same place where goes the OPA627?

 4) do i need some other things?

 Thanks if you help me...

 Fabio


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fdbf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi everyone... excuse for my noob question... but i can't manage the whole thing.

 i'm from italy, i have just bought the zero...

 i want to upgrade it...

 but

 the thread is so big and i'm losing myself in it...

 the best solutions for upgrade are 2xOPA627 + 2x LT1364 or 1x HDAM + 2xLT1364 right? 

 1) where can i buy this components? 

 2) how much do they cost?

 3) the HDAM goes in the same place where goes the OPA627?

 4) do i need some other things?

 Thanks if you help me...

 Fabio_

 

Hi Fabio,

 1) Ebay is the best source
 2) You'll find out, ask the seller
 3) You can install it into the DAC socket replacing the original opamp
 4) Maybe, it depends on how much money you are willing to spend
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Also, unless you've already done that, check this out...

MA che bell usb dac..............

Zero dac [un dac molto interessante]

Un nuovo usb dac...Audiotrak e opamp


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PS AP what are your thoughts on this idea ?_

 

All good, IMO. But this needs addressing:-

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mars attacks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I appreciate the effort 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but, in my opinion:

 A well-designed opamp shouldn't vary its performance with supply voltage that much; if it does, it has some problems. Typical opamps at least don't do that. Anyway the Zero's +/-15V should be perfect for most opamps and especially for these discrete ones; except for those that don't tolerate above +/-12V like the AD8620, for instance.

 Secondly, if the Sun and Earth really take 22 and 28 mA each respectively, then the Zero's power supply will have no problems really to feed them properly.

 The only benefit I see is when using the internal headphone amp, since the lower draw from the +/-15V regulators might just yield some microscopic sonic benefit...


 For the sheer fun part, I have no problems to agree. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

But opamp voltage can play a *significant* part in altering its sound characteristics. OPA227 and OPA627 both sound better when working at +/-18v than when working at +/-9v. Same goes for LT1028, which positively sings along when working at over 30v.

 Virtually all semiconductors, IMO, work better at the higher end of their rated voltage. Some work almost as well at lower voltages(think of computer processors here), but where differences can be heard rather than measured(I'm thinking of audio opamps here), then the general rule is that more voltage within the rated range gives stronger performance with less noise.

 P10 - http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/pcm1794a.pdf

 Of course, I'm far from infallible, but from what I've read on here the general consensus on opamps tends to be that higher supply voltages yield the best sound.

 The unit is rated up to +/-50v, which I'd not be aiming for. Mine runs plenty hot enough at +/-15v. May be worth trying +/-18v, and even +/-20v, but I tend to think that without re-casing the entire Zero DAC, it's going to struggle to remain stable because of the total heat output. Being situated near all those hot voltage regulators and the transformer, which does seem to get quite warm, isn't likely to be a great thing... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## AudioPhewl

My experience with the HDAMs is that both sound better than an opamp in the DAC section.

 Also, Mars attacks, the figures you've quoted for HDAM current draw is for one channel only.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## fdbf

so you're telling me to put AD8599 on the DAC and 2xLT1364 on Headphone amplifier? 

 is this the better choice right now?

 do you agree with this?


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mars attacks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can you please be more specific? This wasn't quite my experience... Maybe a matter of supply voltage? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Or maybe different tastes in music? Also they got too hot really..._

 

Compared to OPA827, which was in there before, and using the OPA-Sun, which I've left in pretty much completely over the last 3/4 days...

 OPA-Sun is, to my ears:-

 Faster delivery
 More depth
 Wider impression of soundstage
 More "airy" and detailed around instrumentation
 Feminine vocals are sharper and cleaner, but without feeling dry or sibilant IMO
 Hard-hitting rock and metal feels much punchier and has a more "solid" feel to it
 Acoustics feel much more lifelike and less artificial

  Quote:


 And I specified it with "each", I think. 
 

I don't remember. But I do remember reading it and thinking you were quoting for only one channel but not being explicitly clear, hence my comment.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fdbf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so you're telling me to put AD8599 on the DAC and 2xLT1364 on Headphone amplifier? 

 is this the better choice right now?

 do you agree with this?_

 

I've not heard it. But I'd recommend you read through a bit more of this thread and see what the general consensus is - a lot of folk have tried changing opamps, and there is a general consensus...

 ~Phewl.


----------



## fdbf

yeah but can you tell me please?

 i've read a bit but i cannot pass through 500+ pages...

 i suppose general consensus is opa627BP on DAC and LT1364 on headphone amplifier...

 is this right?

 Thanks for answering


----------



## AudioPhewl

^Yup. Most folk seem to love that combination.

 OPA827 is even better than 627 IMO. OPA-Sun is another step-up as well, and can be had cheaply from Audio-GD.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Thanks for taking point today AP...I've been a busy boy finishing the DIY DAC build (this afternoon, talk about PITA, note to self use big chassis next time) and now I'm onto the resistor mod for the MK III with some other goodies 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yet another tight chassis 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Lots of golf language today 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.

 PS I ordered the 15 V reg/tranny....the heat issue will be a factor so 3V less than 18V could mean the difference between stability and failure (as you pointed out)...we'll soon see. Not a lot of room left in the old Zero chassis 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think I'll keep the lid off for good...not very pretty but what the hell...


----------



## AudioPhewl

I keep thinking I should do something with the case... as it is, it works and works okay. But I do think an 80mm fan running at 5-7v could help ease temperatures a whole heap...

 I rest me headphones on top the the DAC, so can't really leave it lidless. Will probably end up putting the Stax energiser on top of it, when it arrives.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mars attacks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My comparisons were done with the LT1028, so I can't say much on this, except that the LT1028 has a faster bass than the Earth, a better balance across the spectrum, vocals less distant, the whole midrange silkier, fuller midbass. The Earth played tricks on me... at first it seemed quite detailed, then it turned out quite upper-midrange-forward thus making things sound exciting but not quite right. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The LT1028 is my favourite opamp to date. I'm not about to start criticising it, nor your feelings toward it - we all have different tastes, and different things suit us better than others.

 Personally, I always felt the 1028 was better than the OPA627, but that it fell short of the OPA827. Both the 1028 and the 827 were beaten by the OPA-Sun, IMHO. I struggle to think of any reason to favour either over the discrete amplifier, but that's just me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ETA - I much favour the OPA-Sun over the Earth, in the same way I favour the LT1028 over the OPA627.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mars attacks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How much is a "general consensus" worth, when apparently most people are nearly newbies and have only compared the OPA627 and the stock OPA2604? And perhaps the LT1364 which appears to be unstable (thus compromised) inside the Zero?_

 

"General consensus" is exactly that. It's the opinion of many, many different people on how something sounds. It may not be the best combination out there, but it is one that works, and works in a very pleasing fashion to a good many ears.

 I'm no huge fan of the 627 - it's woollen and mellow, though it does have a nice soundstage. But the combination seems to work well for a whole lot of people. It's certainly a better point at which to aim for than the standard unit with the 2604 and 5532.

  Quote:


 The AD8599 is a newer, lower distortion, more colorful sounding audio opamp to the OPA627... if you try, you'll find out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 

I don't like "coloured" sound. I like it neutral and honest.

  Quote:


 Besides, personally I'm quite attracted by that TO99 (metal can) LT1057 that Lawrence was selling on ebay the last time I checked... Funnily it has been completely overlooked... So much for the worthlessness of the general consensus. 
 

Think I've got a pair of 1057s lurking around here somewhere. Maybe I should dig them out and try them in the headphone amplifier... maybe I'll not bother, seeing as it'll likely be out of commission this next week(Stax on order).

 ~Phewl.


----------



## dario

Hi, I have read quite all, finally I have a question, but the Opa Sun and Earth, are good for the sennheiser 595?
 I have read somaone says that with opa Sun and Earth, the Zero sould not do a good job with low ohm headphone, this is right or wrong?


----------



## dario

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mars attacks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The HD595 (while quite good) lacked midbass for my ears - the Earth (at least) lacks midbass too. Also the slight dryness of the HD595 wouldn't pair well, I think, with the "HDAM" sound._

 

I understand, and what would be a good combination of Op in your opinion for the 595?
 The Opa Sun also is not very "good" (best convetional Op) for the 595?
 (I think, if I would obtain better result I would take those Opa in consideration, if would be quite sure a waste of time money, I would go for more "tested" solutions)


 Thanks.

 P.s I ask, becouse not having bought I have still considerable freedom of choice of various combinations.


----------



## dario

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mars attacks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm, I think the liquid sound of the Linear Technology opamps will do good to it... I remember I really liked the LT1361 some time ago driving my HD595 directly (without buffers). You might do AD8599 (full colourful sound, sweet treble) in the DAC and two LT1361 in the amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hmm but all those Op are "plug 'n play"?
 Some people from other forum suggested to use all Lm4562..

 The Opa Sun would not be the "opposite" of the earth?
 Than suitable for the 595?

 I ask to understand


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Almost everyone using the suggested opamps or HDAMs are using 300 ohm HD6XX series headphones. That could be the reason for the SQ being off a bit...the low impedance 595's are not very good headphones...more for portable amps/Ipods etc...IMHO of course.

 Keep that in mind when expressing opinions about opamps and modules...the 595's aren't even in the same league frankly as the old HD580. 

 Sorry to be a little elitist but surely if your serious about Head Fi you have to get some real hi end cans..

 Peete.


----------



## dario

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Almost everyone using the suggested opamps or HDAMs are using 300 ohm HD6XX series headphones. That could be the reason for the SQ being off a bit...the low impedance 595's are not very good headphones...more for portable amps/Ipods etc...IMHO of course.

 Keep that in mind when expressing opinions about opamps and modules...the 595's aren't even in the same league frankly as the old HD580. 

 Sorry to be a little elitist but surely if your serious about Head Fi you have to get some real hi end cans..

 Peete._

 


 I bought them some time ago specially for the low impedance, so that I can use them quite with everything, because when I bought them there were'nt good and cheap solutions for headphones with high impedence...or however I don't found...(and portable amps are useless for me over not so good for the price, and I would even buy a Dac becouse I don't remember such solutions at such low price when I bought the 595)

 Than if I want buy this Dac\Amp, I would refer to the the 580 opinion about the OP tu use?

 Also if the 595 would not benefit much from the amp, the Dac would be a really good improvment over my system now and at low price and good quality and also with an amp, it's very interesting...

 P.s I have'nt the zero, I would buy it, than I'm I am informing only to do the best choice and not made bad purchases, it's also good that changing those Op anyone could adjust the dac\amp to new "hardware"...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Jeez, sorry dario...I don't know what's gotten into me today...the Zero should be a very good amp and upgrade for your purposes...for the price you can't do any better IMO. It also has tons of potential under the cover.

 Peete.


----------



## dario

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jeez, sorry dario...I don't know what's gotten into me today...the Zero should be a very good amp and upgrade for your purposes...for the price you can't do any better IMO. It also has tons of potential under the cover.

 Peete._

 

No problems, I perfectly know that a Hd595 is'nt anything special for audiophiles, but for begin imho it's ok, now you have made me thinking of a upgrade....bad forum this, but certainly before I sell the 595 I would try to see what they can do with a good dac\amp...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Also when I will choice a new Hp I will know what I would like to find in comprison to the actual 595 (mainly "incisive" and deep bass is I think the mainly lack of the 595, medium and high is quite ok) 



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mars attacks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well the Sun was reported to have less midbass and sound more forward than the Earth, so... I would think twice. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Yesss, the opamps are plug n play, except that you must solder the AD8599 on an adapter. 


 The LM4562 is a mediocre sounding opamp... The AD8599, LT1361, LT1057, LT1364 (for duals) all sound better. There are others too._

 

I understand, but the Ad8599 is unfoundable on ebay, and from Italy I don't think that I will have free samples...


 Finally, I think I will go for modded Zero and after I will see...in nay case if I change my 595 would not be the modded zero the bottleneck...


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Almost everyone using the suggested opamps or HDAMs are using 300 ohm HD6XX series headphones. That could be the reason for the SQ being off a bit...the low impedance 595's are not very good headphones...more for portable amps/Ipods etc...IMHO of course.

 Keep that in mind when expressing opinions about opamps and modules...the 595's aren't even in the same league frankly as the old HD580. 

 Sorry to be a little elitist but surely if your serious about Head Fi you have to get some real hi end cans..

 Peete._

 

Hi PP, have you ever seriously listened to an HD595 or the HD555 (they are virtually the same) before saying that?

 I can tell you that they are audiophile cans, not only because Sennheiser included them in the audiophile product line. Their sound is absolutely excellent.

 I can't imagine people hanging around with an HD595 connected to an IPOD... They are closed-type headphones anyway...


----------



## dario

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can't imagine people hanging around with an HD595 connected to an IPOD... They are closed-type headphones anyway..._

 

Yes, this is the most fun thing, I can't imagine people with a hd595 in the street with mp3 amplifier and also a phone, you need a pack to keep all the stuff, I would also ask me why go for such type of Hp where the environment and noise would be the first problem, and also the hd595 imho is not good "in moviment", but If there were a Zero dac\amp solution when I boughed the 595, probably I would buy directly a higher end headphone...


----------



## ccschua

Hi guys,

 audio gd says future extension wire will be thicker as below


----------



## ccschua

I wonder has anyone tried the 3xOPA Sun/Earth to listen to the Headphone. So eager to know if the OPA is able to give better listening pleasure ....


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys,

 audio gd says future extension wire will be thicker as below_

 

Yeah the problem (for me anyway) was the soldering - the connections - and the length, not the cables themselves - although a bit tougher isn't a bad thing.

 Hey Mars, I'm curious what headphone's you're using and which amp... only because your experience seems to be opposite of mine and several others with the Earth/Sun/HDAM -- which is totally fine, of course, just curious. To my ears, the Sun blows the OPA627s out of the water feeding to my LD MKIII - although I admit to not hearing other opamps. I rarely ever use the Zero amp, but that's not what I bought the Zero for anyway...


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mars attacks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is that the same wire used for the ground connection? If so, that would be a little stiff... Something at midway (possibly made with high purity wire) would be desirable, IMO. Besides, the extension cable would have to be a little longer than 10 cm to really do its job 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well the new extension wire is not as thick as earth wire and it is flexible. No need to worry.


----------



## dario

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah the problem (for me anyway) was the soldering - the connections - and the length, not the cables themselves - although a bit tougher isn't a bad thing.

 Hey Mars, I'm curious what headphone's you're using and which amp... only because your experience seems to be opposite of mine and several others with the Earth/Sun/HDAM -- which is totally fine, of course, just curious. To my ears, the Sun blows the OPA627s out of the water feeding to my LD MKIII - although I admit to not hearing other opamps. I rarely ever use the Zero amp, but that's not what I bought the Zero for anyway... 




_

 


 Interesting, than would not be a problem (in the sense of risk to hear worse than with the modded zero) use them with headphone like the 595 (I will change them in the near future)?
 But where you use sun or earth, in dac or amp?
 Or you have the three opa for dac and amp?


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dario* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting, than would not be a problem (in the sense of risk to hear worse than with the modded zero) use them with headphone like the 595 (I will change them in the near future)?
 But where you use sun or earth, in dac or amp?
 Or you have the three opa for dac and amp?_

 

No - I really only use the Zero as a DAC, therefore only 1 Sun, in the Dac section. I have not yet tried the Earth.


----------



## Henmyr

The people saying the Opa-Earth is good... are only modest. I find the OPA-Earth VERY good. A VERY worthwhile upgrade.

 I've always felt that the Zero was a bit veiled in the detail and texture departement. The OPA-Earth offered a big improvement to detail over the whole spectrum, from bass to hights.

 The increased detail, texture and air has improved low-level listening a lot.

 I have found the bass just a bit boomy before, but with increased tightness and control the bass is now very good.

 The air and separation have increased a lot too.

 I agree with the comments about it's apparent lack of colouration. It sounds very natural and neutral. It's not neutral/bright and not neutral/dark, but instead very close to perfectly neutral.

 I will eventually try the OPA-Sun also (which I have here waiting), but for the price I would have been satisfied if I only got the OPA-Earth also as it is such a big upgrade.

 I just might finally be satisfied with the Zero
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (never say never due to upgraditus)

 EDIT: I forgot to mention the increase in dynamics, both micro and macro-dynamics.


----------



## ScottieB

^ pretty much agree with all of that - except I've only tried the Sun. it brought out so many missing nuances in the music (and other sounds like games and movies) that I can't possibly go back now.


----------



## fdhfdy

I wish they will have a balanced version coming out soon.


----------



## AudioPhewl

^OPA-Sun is a balanced design, is it not?

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Hi Zero nuts and junkies...the DHL man came by with a box at 4 pm today..
 The SUN modules are up and running in the H/Amp section of my heavily modified Zero. It's easily better than the LT1364's they replaced but I kind of expected that. The same superlatives that describe the HDAM in the DAC (Lawrence's HDAM) section can be attributed to the H/Amp section (running SUN modules).

 The space issue is real although all 3 can be accommodated if the DAC section HDAM is moved to the center of the PCB (as in sitting on top of components but free with it's ground wire attached to the center pcb screw. Needless to say if you go this route you'll need to insulate the module against short circuits. Any method your imagination can whip up will suffice as long as it insulates without causing excessive heat build up. 

 Since I have my cover off for the time being I don't have to worry much about heat or insulation. I'm toying with the idea that ianp mentioned earlier...an acrylic custom top. To be explored in the near future ...maybe 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Options for those who want the stock look...

 Drilling out air holes underneath the two pcbs where all the voltage regs (right hand front corner) are might be a wise idea. Use convection current (top lid has grill) like Pench mentions. just make sure the air holes are forward so the natural flow will cover most of the hot spots. For instance the biggest producer of heat in the Zero is the two analog voltage regulators, followed by the 4 regs in the head amp section. Drill a half dozen or more 1/4 in to 3/8 holes into the underside near the right front footer (keep it symmetrical, a rectangular pattern will suffice. If the footer covers up a few holes remap the pattern to skip that area and add accordingly on either side of the footer). Try to make the pattern slightly smaller in size that the stock vent on the lid, that way you'll have good balance of air flow. Better to drill to few holes than to many.

 These are just suggestions people not mandatory mods. I can say one thing about my Zero...it certainly sounds far better than when I started out on this experiment a few months ago.


 Always pushing forward.....


 Peete.


----------



## ScottieB

Peete 2 questions:

 1 - Am I correct to assume that the heat issue of the HeadAmp section is not an issue at all until you hit that PreAmp button?

 2 - Where da photos at?


 And nice job! Thanks for sharing!


----------



## Currawong

The voltage regulators on the headamp section run hot regardless of mode I've found. The Earth especially runs quite hot, so some ventilation might be the go. I still have a slow spinning fan pushing air across the top of my Zero. If i don't, my MKV sitting on top of it gets quite warm.

 I had a good look at cases at my local electronics shop yesterday. Unfortunately the good ones are around the cost of a basic Zero!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Man that stinks...time to look at Chinese suppliers I'd say..Lawrence has a really nice one (Gold or Silver) for 60 bucks. Best price I've seen for what you get (rack mount size, DIY faceplate and back panel, pre drilled is a PITA IMO unless it's exactly what you need...which is very rare)

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Peete 2 questions:

 1 - Am I correct to assume that the heat issue of the HeadAmp section is not an issue at all until you hit that PreAmp button?

 2 - Where da photos at?


 And nice job! Thanks for sharing!_

 

Nope, H/Amp is on whether it's in use or not...one tweak for those that simply don't need that functionality is to remove the entire H/Amp board...I do that with CDPs all the time...

 I need to sign up and pay for an account at P Bucket....so no pics until I do unless people PM me with their email addresses than I will send pics that way. I haven't done much today since I feel like total crap...allergies are driving me nuts...

 You know me by now...share everything with the Zero/Head Fi bro's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Contribution great or small is what I love about this place, as well as it's excellent (for the most part 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) members 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Can I butter up or what ?

 I just took 2 snaps of the Zero with HDAMs in all positions..the MK III to the right has had the resistor mod done (for 6H30PI's) in case anyone is wondering what's up with that...

 PM and leave email address and I'll send off the pic(s). My photography skills with a digital are abysmal...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.

 PS Only 1 pic turned out....time to take some more...man I hate this freakin' camera or it hates me..


----------



## Pricklely Peete

BTW I've only briefly listened to the Zero today...I'll give it a better listen late tonight...it's been running for 5 hours straight so far..in 3 hours or so..if I manage to stay awake 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## sennsay

Hi all, as a nooby to Head-Fi, if not hi-fi, I have been following this thread with passionate interest. I ordered a Zero from snow46_8 and it was actually sent pretty quickly, though I had a few nervous moments when there were some not so hot comments from others earlier in this thread. Still, it's in transit to NZ and ought to be here any day. My impatience has been tempered by the arrival of a Meier 2Move, which has blown me away in the meantime - another story. Anyway, after turning myself nearly blind reading the copious amounts of fine reading in this thread and associated links, I have also ordered several op-amps; namely the OPA627AUs that come on that dinky little adapter from gigawork on ebay. I have to say the service from them has been sensational and the package arrived today, ahead of the Zero. So, they are getting a pre-Zero burn in because I have popped them in place of an OPA2134PA in the kit headamp I have been using for the last couple of years. They are working just fine so far. The 627s came beautifully packaged and the adapter is so small it will easily fit into the space available in the amp section of the Zero. 
 There are also two 1364s on the way, plus two each of the LT1028s and LT1057s from Wu at diykits. Playtime!! 
 I am seriously thinking of ordering another of the 627 modules, as I may NOT want to take the one in the kit amp out again. At the moment they are sounding incredibly detailed, though somewhat thin and lightweight, burn-in has a long way to go. They are mildly warm to the touch, certainly more so than the OPA2134 was, but definitely not hot. 
 I'm wondering now what the LT1364 might sound like in place of the OPA2134? Something for later.
 Anyway, I did want to say that the little OPA627AU module seems perfectly fine, since there were a few doubts floating around earlier in the piece. 
 Initially though, I just want to hear the Zero in it's stock form first, Penchum couldn't have been so enamored with it if it didn't sound so yummy in the first place! 
 Just gone and listened to the opening track of the brilliant Willie Nelson/Wynton Marsalis CD Two Men With the Blues and it sounds stonkingly good with the 627s already, so musical and already little details that weren't so obvious before are now. I imagine the bass will fill out in weight in a day or two, with lots more running in, but it sure is clean! No waffle in there! 
 Amazing thread, guys, I've been scribbling notes and all for days! 
 Will keep you posted on the DAC when it arrives, cheers for now.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi all, as a nooby to Head-Fi, if not hi-fi, I have been following this thread with passionate interest. I ordered a Zero from snow46_8 and it was actually sent pretty quickly, though I had a few nervous moments when there were some not so hot comments from others earlier in this thread. Still, it's in transit to NZ and ought to be here any day. My impatience has been tempered by the arrival of a Meier 2Move, which has blown me away in the meantime - another story. Anyway, after turning myself nearly blind reading the copious amounts of fine reading in this thread and associated links, I have also ordered several op-amps; namely the OPA627AUs that come on that dinky little adapter from gigawork on ebay. I have to say the service from them has been sensational and the package arrived today, ahead of the Zero. So, they are getting a pre-Zero burn in because I have popped them in place of an OPA2134PA in the kit headamp I have been using for the last couple of years. They are working just fine so far. The 627s came beautifully packaged and the adapter is so small it will easily fit into the space available in the amp section of the Zero. 
 There are also two 1364s on the way, plus two each of the LT1028s and LT1057s from Wu at diykits. Playtime!! 
 I am seriously thinking of ordering another of the 627 modules, as I may NOT want to take the one in the kit amp out again. At the moment they are sounding incredibly detailed, though somewhat thin and lightweight, burn-in has a long way to go. They are mildly warm to the touch, certainly more so than the OPA2134 was, but definitely not hot. 
 I'm wondering now what the LT1364 might sound like in place of the OPA2134? Something for later.
 Anyway, I did want to say that the little OPA627AU module seems perfectly fine, since there were a few doubts floating around earlier in the piece. 
 Initially though, I just want to hear the Zero in it's stock form first, Penchum couldn't have been so enamored with it if it didn't sound so yummy in the first place! 
 Just gone and listened to the opening track of the brilliant Willie Nelson/Wynton Marsalis CD Two Men With the Blues and it sounds stonkingly good with the 627s already, so musical and already little details that weren't so obvious before are now. I imagine the bass will fill out in weight in a day or two, with lots more running in, but it sure is clean! No waffle in there! 
 Amazing thread, guys, I've been scribbling notes and all for days! 
 Will keep you posted on the DAC when it arrives, cheers for now._

 

That's great S-Man 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




......The stock zero with 627's and LT1364's is pretty darn good...I guess your fully aware of the Audio-GD discrete OPA's we've all been raving about of late ( I have been raving about HDAMS for months actually, see sig for details)...Audio-GD has a promo on until August 31 st, buy one OPA and get another one free....The leap in performance over the best opamps IMO is huge. A dual channel OPA in the DAC section of the Zero is a great combination with the LT1364's (in the H/Amp section).

 Just thought I'd let you know of that terrific deal/option for the Zero before the offer expires. Basically you can get a dual channel OPA (plus another freebie) for the cost of a set of 627 BP's...unreal deal. I've got 5 HDAMs as of right now...anything I have with regular opamps has the new modules in them as of today 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As of right now I'm thinking of ordering another set of 2 SUNS (to get 2 more Earth modules free) for any upcoming projects that may require DIP socket discrete module upgrades 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 Welcome to the Zero owners group...hope you have a soldering iron 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The people saying the Opa-Earth is good... are only modest. I find the OPA-Earth VERY good. A VERY worthwhile upgrade.

 I've always felt that the Zero was a bit veiled in the detail and texture departement. The OPA-Earth offered a big improvement to detail over the whole spectrum, from bass to hights.

 The increased detail, texture and air has improved low-level listening a lot.

 I have found the bass just a bit boomy before, but with increased tightness and control the bass is now very good.

 The air and separation have increased a lot too.

 I agree with the comments about it's apparent lack of colouration. It sounds very natural and neutral. It's not neutral/bright and not neutral/dark, but instead very close to perfectly neutral.

 I will eventually try the OPA-Sun also (which I have here waiting), but for the price I would have been satisfied if I only got the OPA-Earth also as it is such a big upgrade.

 I just might finally be satisfied with the Zero
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (never say never due to upgraditus)

 EDIT: I forgot to mention the increase in dynamics, both micro and macro-dynamics._

 

Right on the money Henmyr...good job describing the differences !!!

 Peete.


----------



## alxwang

Just put the oder for duet today. Will do a compare between duet and earth zero soon.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My wallet is not that happy anyway.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alxwang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just put the oder for duet today. Will do a compare between duet and earth zero soon.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My wallet is not that happy anyway._

 

That should be a cool comparison. With the Zero mod almost ready to be released it would be interesting to see how a heavily massaged Zero would fare against the Apogee....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 How much for the Apogee Alex ? My wallet is ready to leave me if I don't lay off 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Oh any word on when your custom reg boards will arrive from A-GD ?

 Peete.


----------



## alxwang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That should be a cool comparison. With the Zero mod almost ready to be released it would be interesting to see how a heavily massaged Zero would fare against the Apogee....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 How much for the Apogee Alex ? My wallet is ready to leave me if I don't lay off 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

I got it from Apple at 499. I trace it at ebay for long time already and the cost will be 400+shipping and duty - I just feel it is not worth , so I just get a new one.

 My zero will goto office when the fans mod and power mod is done. So I need a DAC in home.
 I used want to get another Zero but GF want the money I spend this time give her something too( she want to try a little bit recording) - so here we go - my first Apogee


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Wow that's pretty pricey...I hope it's a good one Alex...maybe you can tweak it for better SQ ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (just kidding....maybe 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 I can't leave anything alone it seems...must pop the lid and gawk to see what has to go and what can stay 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Do me a favor Alex when you get the Duet pop the cover and post an internal pic (if you don't mind)...I'd like to see what 500 bucks buys you these days from the Western companies...

 I've heard through other members here it's a very good DAC. I'm sure you already knew that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Nothing like first hand listening to confirm or deny general consensus I say 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Congrats on the score !!!

 Peete.


----------



## alxwang

I search before I click order submit button already.
Picasa Web Albums - Anthony - A Look Inside...

 About the power module I assume they are on the road already but no trace# yet. 



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow that's pretty pricey...I hope it's a good one Alex...maybe you can tweak it for better SQ ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (just kidding....maybe 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 I can't leave anything alone it seems...must pop the lid and gawk to see what has to go and what can stay 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Do me a favor Alex when you get the Duet pop the cover and post an internal pic (if you don't mind)...I'd like to see what 500 bucks buys you these days from the Western companies...

 I've heard through other members here it's a very good DAC. I'm sure you already knew that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Nothing like first hand listening to confirm or deny general consensus I say 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Congrats on the score !!!

 Peete._


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alxwang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I search before I click order submit button already.
Picasa Web Albums - Anthony - A Look Inside...

 About the power module I assume they are on the road already but no trace# yet._

 

Thanks for that link Alex...Audio-GD stuff should be fairly quick if they sent them via DHL. I got my modules earlier today so it took 8 days including a weekend...so in reality 5 business days which is fast..I'm looking forward to your upcoming impressions of the new regs and the Zero/Duet comparison.

 I'm just about to place my order with Wellborn for the HDAM reg and transformer. Is a 1A transformer (rated max current at 15V DC) enough for three modules ? I'm thinking it is...but thought I'd ask. If not then I'll just use the kit on the DAC HDAM. Man it's going to be a tight squeeze in that chassis 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 May do the same for the Super DAC I just finished today and am listening to right now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 Peete.


----------



## sennsay

That's great S-Man ......The stock zero with 627's and LT1364's is pretty darn good...I guess your fully aware of the Audio-GD discrete OPA's we've all been raving about of late ( I have been raving about HDAMS for months actually, see sig for details)...Audio-GD has a promo on until August 31 st, buy one OPA and get another one free....The leap in performance over the best opamps IMO is huge. A dual channel OPA in the DAC section of the Zero is a great combination with the LT1364's (in the H/Amp section).

 Just thought I'd let you know of that terrific deal/option for the Zero before the offer expires. Basically you can get a dual channel OPA (plus another freebie) for the cost of a set of 627 BP's...unreal deal. I've got 5 HDAMs as of right now...anything I have with regular opamps has the new modules in them as of today 

 As of right now I'm thinking of ordering another set of 2 SUNS (to get 2 more Earth modules free) for any upcoming projects that may require DIP socket discrete module upgrades 



 Welcome to the Zero owners group...hope you have a soldering iron 

 Peete.

 Thanks a bunch Peete, soldering iron is ready, quality solder is nearby! 
 Have you got a link somewhere I can order a HDAM or two from? It sounds like too good a deal to miss out on and I can run them in on the other amp while the Zero is tuning up. 
 Forgive me if I have missed something somewhere, but what is the diff between Sun and Earth and what exactly do I need? I've read your review - which was inspiring enough - but I think I may have hit information overload recently! I even woke up this morning with Zeros and 2Moves and heating electronics on the brain! 
 Haven't been this excited about audio for quite a while, even though I've been kit-building and seriously into hifi for some 35 years now. And best of all, it's FUN and you guys help make it so! Gotta love the enthusiasm! 
 Oh, is the EARTH like a starter HDAM and the SUN the next model up, so to speak? Get 'em from ebay or Audio-GD, is it?


----------



## michaelscarnfbi

Is the best way to buy one of these through Lawrence, with the special Head-Fi deal upgrade? Or should I just get one from ebay?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's great S-Man ......The stock zero with 627's and LT1364's is pretty darn good...I guess your fully aware of the Audio-GD discrete OPA's we've all been raving about of late ( I have been raving about HDAMS for months actually, see sig for details)...Audio-GD has a promo on until August 31 st, buy one OPA and get another one free....The leap in performance over the best opamps IMO is huge. A dual channel OPA in the DAC section of the Zero is a great combination with the LT1364's (in the H/Amp section).

 Just thought I'd let you know of that terrific deal/option for the Zero before the offer expires. Basically you can get a dual channel OPA (plus another freebie) for the cost of a set of 627 BP's...unreal deal. I've got 5 HDAMs as of right now...anything I have with regular opamps has the new modules in them as of today 

 As of right now I'm thinking of ordering another set of 2 SUNS (to get 2 more Earth modules free) for any upcoming projects that may require DIP socket discrete module upgrades 



 Welcome to the Zero owners group...hope you have a soldering iron 

 Peete.

 Thanks a bunch Peete, soldering iron is ready, quality solder is nearby! 
 Have you got a link somewhere I can order a HDAM or two from? It sounds like too good a deal to miss out on and I can run them in on the other amp while the Zero is tuning up. 
 Forgive me if I have missed something somewhere, but what is the diff between Sun and Earth and what exactly do I need? I've read your review - which was inspiring enough - but I think I may have hit information overload recently! I even woke up this morning with Zeros and 2Moves and heating electronics on the brain! 
 Haven't been this excited about audio for quite a while, even though I've been kit-building and seriously into hifi for some 35 years now. And best of all, it's FUN and you guys help make it so! Gotta love the enthusiasm! 
 Oh, is the EARTH like a starter HDAM and the SUN the next model up, so to speak? Get 'em from ebay or Audio-GD, is it?_

 

The difference between the 2 is voicing. The Earth module is dead nuts neutral while the Sun module gives a different and slight emphasis on bass (slam and is punchier) with some PRAT parameters different from the Earth. They are both close in what they bring to the table overall. 

 The name of the company is audio-gd and you can check out the (hard to navigate ) web site here at this link......ºÎÇì»ªÔ*´´ÒôÏì the procedure for buying is email them directly and request 2 for 1 deal on OPA SUN (that will get you 2 Earth modules automatically until the offer ends) and ask for extension leads for your modules to be made separate from the HDAMs. That way you can use the leads on other types of gear if need be.

 Anyway the email address is audio-gd@126.com ...when you email them, a man called Kingwa will respond fairly quickly. Their English isn't great so be prepared to guess/decipher a little. It seems A-GD is a great place for really well built gear both in finished form and their many interesting DIY kits/parts etc...at great prices to boot. I'm impressed with their designs and build quality !!! Check out their amps and dacs...unreal stuff for dirt cheap (compared to what it cost here/west)

 Funny about the experience factor....Pench and I both have about 35 years as well behind us in this hobby
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The 3 Amigos...we pack Zeros 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Further details on the HDAMs are on the DIY Kits page at the site. Takes a while to load all the pics.

 Feel free to ask any questions you may have 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *michaelscarnfbi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the best way to buy one of these through Lawrence, with the special Head-Fi deal upgrade? Or should I just get one from ebay?_

 


 Lawrence offers the Head Fi deal (OPA627's plus LT1364's) for the same cost..so it's slightly better than the other guys. He is also on eBay. His user name is biglawhk....I'm not recommending any dealer over the others. 

 It's up to you who you want to buy from ultimately.

 Hope that helps a little..

 Peete.


----------



## fugimax

Been trying to read this thread (577 pages, geez!).

 Anyways, I'm looking at buying a Zero to use at work with a Mac Pro as my source and ATH-ESW9's. I've read a lot but haven't yet found an answer to this question:

 If I order a stock Zero, how hard is it to upgrade? That is, I see people changing out both the DAC and amp chips ... are both easy / what does it require? I've tried looking for a guide of some type, but couldn't find one ... maybe I'm blind though, been reading this thread for a few hours. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Based on what I'm reading, I'd like to put together a setup with the discrete OPAs.

 Also, first post! (long time lurker).


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *michaelscarnfbi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the best way to buy one of these through Lawrence, with the special Head-Fi deal upgrade? Or should I just get one from ebay?_

 


 Personally I went with this:

 Bought the ZERO from Audiophilechina, default unit, no alterations, 99+50=149USD.

 2 x LT1364 = Free samples from Linear

 OPA627 = Couldn't get free samples via website, so I went to the newer and better OPA837, Two sample units Free from TI. + BrownDog adapter = 3$

 Total: 152$ and some soldering work that I enjoy doing and know how to do, so this was the better choice, *for me*.

 Lawrence = 139+40=179 USD.

 With the extra $ I didn't spend on Lawrence option, I can now buy me one of these Audio-GD HDAMs promo packs.

 And quite frankly after reading the problems that *AudioPhewl* was/is experiencing with Lawrence, I decided not to deal with Lawrence, and one other person here payed extra for the OPA637, and got OPA627..

 Please take this as my opinion (based on observations) / alternative option only, *many *have dealt with Lawrence and had no problems 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 I just see no point in the head-fi deal *now*, with the amazing HDAM deal, and free Linear samples.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fugimax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Been trying to read this thread (577 pages, geez!).

 Anyways, I'm looking at buying a Zero to use at work with a Mac Pro as my source and ATH-ESW9's. I've read a lot but haven't yet found an answer to this question:

 If I order a stock Zero, how hard is it to upgrade? That is, I see people changing out both the DAC and amp chips ... are both easy / what does it require? I've tried looking for a guide of some type, but couldn't find one ... maybe I'm blind though, been reading this thread for a few hours. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Based on what I'm reading, I'd like to put together a setup with the discrete OPAs.

 Also, first post! (long time lurker)._

 

It's just the opamp chips that are being swapped out ( 3 dual channel opamps, 1 in the DAC analog output section and 2 more in the H/AMP section)

 They are very easy to swap since the Zero comes stock with gold plated dip sockets.


 Peete.


----------



## fugimax

Quote:


 It's just the opamp chips that are being swapped out ( 3 dual channel opamps, 1 in the DAC analog output section and 2 more in the H/AMP section) 
 

Gotcha. And the current "flavor of the day" for each of those chips is? 

 (From what I've gathered, the discrete OPAs from audio-gd are being used, but in what configuration I'm not sure.)


----------



## sennsay

Cheers muchly Peete. The 3 Amigos, hah, I like that! Ok, HDAMs are us.
 Meanwhile the 627s are already cooking on gas! Wow they have a great sense of 3D soundstage, (particularly in depth if not width yet) even the Senn 555s are now sounding rather good, if still a bit thin in the upper mids, a trait the HD540s have - a bit exposed in that area. I'm wondering if the heat they (the 627s) produce may actually help them burn in, almost literally. After 5 hours of running, they are already out-performing the OPA2134 in some areas. Fast little tackers! 
 It will be very interesting to see how my current headphone amp sounds with the Zero at the front end, out of the big Yam CDPs optical or S/PDIF ports. Great to have another option for burning in op-amps and HDAMS! 
 Will take your advice on the ordering to heart. It would be nice to be able to just pop 'em into the DIP socket, eh? 
 Even in NZ, the Zero comes to a paltry $211, quite amazing really! 
 Add in a couple of planets (heh heh) and some dinky di little op-amp boards and it's still under $300. May China live forever! Especially their hifi nuts. Ok, buffs.

 The SUN sounds ideal for the HD540s, which could do with some extra low down kick, though they are certainly quite explicit, Tool sounds amazing!

 And by GOD, you're not wrong about the speedy reply from Audio-GD! Crikey mate, they'd emailed a reply for my request before I had even finished typing this edit!! Service, service, service!

 Oops, belay an earlier question, they do come on a DIP base. Great website at Audio-GD!
 Dammit! Now the 627s have shown up how veiled the HD540s are compared to the Senn555s. Blatantly obvious, the OPA2134 is now being comprehensively thrashed by the 627 in detailing, speed, soundstage and vocals are so much more intelligible and focused, despite the 2134's not being exactly deficient in that department. Blimey, it's going to be a long night!


----------



## Sganzerla

Guys, I have some questions unanswered, maybe it is lost in all those pages or my poor English and knowledge, don't know.

 I'm going to buy this Zero DAC with the HeadFi mod and HDAM. All of this can be bought direct from Lawrence, right? If not, where do I buy the HDAM?

 This Zero DAC will be used to drive my new K701 until I got $$$ to buy the Little Dot MK V.

 Is really worth to buy these Sun/Earth modules with this new "upgrade" in mind? Looks like one can use one of these modules in DAC section and 2 in the amp section (they should be the same), is that correct? Even if I add the LD MK V, the DAC section upgrade will still be worth, but not the one in amp section.

 Better get extra extension lead for all these modules or it is necessary only for the DAC section?

 Is all these correct?

 Thanks for your valuable info.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fugimax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Gotcha. And the current "flavor of the day" for each of those chips is? 

 (From what I've gathered, the discrete OPAs from audio-gd are being used, but in what configuration I'm not sure.)_

 

The flavor of the day has actually remained constant for quite some time...OPA627 in DAC section and LT1364 in the H/AMP. Discrete modules being the pinnacle of SQ for the Zero (most will use HDAM in DAC section and whatever works for them in the H/Amp section).

 I just installed 2 SUN modules today in the H/Amp section (replacing the LT1364's) and will evaluate those when they have 75 hours on them. I can say an all HDAM Zero is pretty darn good bordering on great (for the money spent).

 Peete.


----------



## fugimax

Quote:


 I'm going to buy this Zero DAC with the HeadFi mod and HDAM. 
 

Can I ask what the HeadFi mod is? Search isn't helping me here, do you have a link? (go figure "headfi" and "mod" are popular terms


----------



## fugimax

Quote:


 I can say an all HDAM Zero is pretty darn good bordering on great (for the money spent). 
 

Any (potentially random) guesses on how it would sound with 2 SUN's / 1 Earth and vice versa? About to pull the trigger on the buy 2 get 2 from audio-gd.

 Note that this will be paired with my ATH-ESW9's.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cheers muchly Peete. The 3 Amigos, hah, I like that! Ok, HDAMs are us.
 Meanwhile the 627s are already cooking on gas! Wow they have a great sense of 3D soundstage, (particularly in depth if not width yet) even the Senn 555s are now sounding rather good, if still a bit thin in the upper mids, a trait the HD540s have - a bit exposed in that area. I'm wondering if the heat they (the 627s) produce may actually help them burn in, almost literally. After 5 hours of running, they are already out-performing the OPA2134 in some areas. Fast little tackers! 
 It will be very interesting to see how my current headphone amp sounds with the Zero at the front end, out of the big Yam CDPs optical or S/PDIF ports. Great to have another option for burning in op-amps and HDAMS! 
 Will take your advice on the ordering to heart. It would be nice to be able to just pop 'em into the DIP socket, eh? 
 Even in NZ, the Zero comes to a paltry $211, quite amazing really! 
 Add in a couple of planets (heh heh) and some dinky di little op-amp boards and it's still under $300. May China live forever! Especially their hifi nuts. Ok, buffs.

 The SUN sounds ideal for the HD540s, which could do with some extra low down kick, though they are certainly quite explicit, Tool sounds amazing!

 And by GOD, you're not wrong about the speedy reply from Audio-GD! Crikey mate, they'd emailed a reply for my request before I had even finished typing this edit!! Service, service, service!_

 

Cool....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...yeah I'd have to say the Chinese have their act together in more ways than one.

 The cost of all this stuff is what makes all of this tweaking possible and to me that is a god send (since I tend to blow things up on occasion) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Zero is a DIY tweakers wet dream 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## MLev

Nice guy. A gentleman, Mr. Lawrence.
 Let me show you. May I ?

 ~~~~~~ _[size=xx-small]Original Message[/size]_ ~~~~~~~
_[size=xx-small]From: CHAN LAWRENCE
 To: xxx@xxx[/size]_ Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 8:47 AM
 Subject: Zero
 Dear Sir ,
 Your parcel is on the way , tracking nr CPxxxHK , Hongkong Post, air mail.
 Please let me know when you receive it . Thank you very much ! Best regards, Lawrence
 ---------------------------------------------
_[size=xx-small]From: lawrence
 To: xxx@xxx [/size]_ Sent: Tues, August 12, 2008 05:51
 Dear Sir ,
 Anything I can do for you ?
 Thank you very much ! Best regards, Lawrence
 ---------------------------------------------
_[size=xx-small]From: xxx@xxx
 To: lawrence [/size]_ Sent: Aug 12, 2008 10:04:23 -0300
 Dear Lawrence, 
 The parcel has not arrived yet.
 HK Post tracking service says: "_The item left Hong Kong for its destination on 3-Aug-2008. 11-Aug-2008 Brazil: Arrived and is being processed_."
 I think I'll have it around September 1rst.
 As soon as the Zero arrives I'll check if it's OK and I'll inform you.
 Thank you very much for your attention. Best regards. Jose
 -----------------------------------------
_[size=xx-small]From: lawrence
 To: xxx@xxx [/size]_ Sent: Aug 12, 2008 13:00:56
 Dear Sir ,
 From my experience, air mail to Brazil is 3 months ( longest ) and 1 month ( fastest ).
 Thank you very much ! Best regards, Lawrence
 ----------------------------------------------
_[size=xx-small]From: xxx@xxx
 To: lawrencechanbig@msn.com[/size]_ Sent: Aug 26, 2008
 Dear Mr. Lawrence,
 My order arrived yesterday. The package: neat and clean. The Zero: OK - optical and coaxial / preamp and headphone, all of them working fine.
 Now it's breaking in with optical in / original power cord / original toslink cable. 
 I have to repeat what a number of people have already said: It's sound quality (Wow!) is better than I expected. If it's bound to improve as Penchum says, I really have got a big little thing in my hands. Thank you very much. Best regards. Jose.

 -----------------------

 PENCHUM: THANK *YOU* !


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fugimax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any (potentially random) guesses on how it would sound with 2 SUN's / 1 Earth and vice versa? About to pull the trigger on the buy 2 get 2 from audio-gd.

 Note that this will be paired with my ATH-ESW9's._

 

Check out my reviews for a detailed description of the Earth module in the DAC section. The Earth module is the same as the module sold by Lawrence.

 I only got my audio-gd modules today so I can't say much about the SUN version other than it sounds pretty darn good in the H/Amp section of the Zero. 

 Head Fi deal = Lawrence sells this version (to members) already stuffed with OPA627 + LT1364 for the same price, 139 US then add shipping cost).

 My Zero is set up as follows 1 dual channel OPA Earth in the DAC section, and 2 dual channel OPA Sun in the H/Amp section. 

 Peete.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cool....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...yeah I'd have to say the Chinese have their act together in more ways than one.

 The cost of all this stuff is what makes all of this tweaking possible and to me that is a god send (since I tend to blow things up on occasion) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Zero is a DIY tweakers wet dream 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Ah yes, that must be what I had last night! Haha!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Guys, I have some questions unanswered, maybe it is lost in all those pages or my poor English and knowledge, don't know.

 I'm going to buy this Zero DAC with the HeadFi mod and HDAM. All of this can be bought direct from Lawrence, right? If not, where do I buy the HDAM?

 This Zero DAC will be used to drive my new K701 until I got $$$ to buy the Little Dot MK V.

 Is really worth to buy these Sun/Earth modules with this new "upgrade" in mind? Looks like one can use one of these modules in DAC section and 2 in the amp section (they should be the same), is that correct? Even if I add the LD MK V, the DAC section upgrade will still be worth, but not the one in amp section.

 Better get extra extension lead for all these modules or it is necessary only for the DAC section?

 Is all these correct?

 Thanks for your valuable info. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You only need one dual channel HDAM for the dac section since you plan on using the MK V as your headphone amp. 

 Go back one page (577) and all the info on how to order the modules is there (one of my posts to Sennsay)

 Your K701's will benefit nicely from a HDAM equipped Zero into the MK V. Penchum's fav combo right now is that same amp and dac combination feeding a pair of HD650's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I would think that the SUN module might be a better fit for the K701's, the cool thing is when you order the SUN module you get the Earth module free (until August 31st only). See 577 for all you need to know...

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Whoa 2:30 am here...G-Nite guys....

 Peete.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Whoa 2:30 am here...G-Nite guys....

 Peete._

 

Nite mate, thanks for the chat. Got 2 sets of the HDAMs on the way.


----------



## Sganzerla

Thanks Peete!

 Some more questions, this dual channel HDAM is something one put in the same place of the dual Sun/Earth modules? You can use only one or the other, not both?

 There have been some months I'm reading all I can about DACs, amps and my knowledge is still next to 0. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks again!

 fugimax, take a look at the end of page 421. I think that is the HeadFi deal, will soon write to Lawrence.


----------



## No Smoking

MLev, Personally my experience is that he responds quickly to emails however generally his emails (when responding to questions) were very brief often not completely answering the question and ambiguous at times.


----------



## Summer Jazz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Personally I went with this:

 Bought the ZERO from Audiophilechina, default unit, no alterations, 99+50=149USD.

 2 x LT1364 = Free samples from Linear

 OPA627 = Couldn't get free samples via website, so I went to the newer and better OPA837, Two sample units Free from TI. + BrownDog adapter = 3$

 Total: 152$ and some soldering work that I enjoy doing and know how to do, so this was the better choice, *for me*.

 Lawrence = 139+40=179 USD.

 With the extra $ I didn't spend on Lawrence option, I can now buy me one of these Audio-GD HDAMs promo packs.

 And quite frankly after reading the problems that *AudioPhewl* was/is experiencing with Lawrence, I decided not to deal with Lawrence, and one other person here payed extra for the OPA637, and got OPA627..

 Please take this as my opinion (based on observations) / alternative option only, *many *have dealt with Lawrence and had no problems 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 I just see no point in the head-fi deal *now*, with the amazing HDAM deal, and free Linear samples._

 

Hi DaMnEd,
 Did u mention OPA837? I couldn't find it in the TI web. I have just requested 2 samples of OPA827 (prototype). Where did u get the BrownDog adapter?
 Thanks!


----------



## ccschua

Hi PP,

 if u need an account on photo bucket, try this one and its free. 

Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Summer Jazz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi DaMnEd,
 Did u mention OPA837? I couldn't find it in the TI web. I have just requested 2 samples of OPA827 (prototype). Where did u get the BrownDog adapter?
 Thanks!_

 

My mistake, I meant OPA827 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Single-to-dual adapters you can get them here: Audio Upgrade Adapters


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Peete!

 Some more questions, this dual channel HDAM is something one put in the same place of the dual Sun/Earth modules? You can use only one or the other, not both?

 There have been some months I'm reading all I can about DACs, amps and my knowledge is still next to 0. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks again!
_

 


 The SUN/Earth modules are HDAMs, that's just a term ( High Definition Audio Module = HDAM ) for them coined by Marantz a while back...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Beats writing "discrete class A operational amps" every time...hehe...For the Zero you need dual channel modules...the HDAMs can be had in single channel modules as well...to suit the application at hand.

 We are all noobs at some point...so don't worry about it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi PP,

 if u need an account on photo bucket, try this one and its free. 

Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket_

 

Thanks CC...I'll have a look . 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## ccschua

This is the last chance for you to grab OPA Earth and Sun, else u will have to pay the full price. I have known long enough that good things dont come for too long. 

 I was once drooling for his CD player (made by audio-gd), almost paid when he announced the stock has finished and no more reproduction. He practically meant it.

 Good luck for those who havent ordered.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is the last chance for you to grab OPA Earth and Sun, else u will have to pay the full price. I have known long enough that good things dont come for too long. 

 I was once drooling for his CD player (made by audio-gd), almost paid when he announced the stock has finished and no more reproduction. He practically meant it.

 Good luck for those who havent ordered._

 

Good point CC.

 Peete.


----------



## alxwang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is the last chance for you to grab OPA Earth and Sun, else u will have to pay the full price. I have known long enough that good things dont come for too long. 

 I was once drooling for his CD player (made by audio-gd), almost paid when he announced the stock has finished and no more reproduction. He practically meant it.

 Good luck for those who havent ordered._

 

You are so right. That's why I put another order already.
 I just found out this sun/earth really can be put into a lot unit. Not only zero.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wonder has anyone tried the 3xOPA Sun/Earth to listen to the Headphone. So eager to know if the OPA is able to give better listening pleasure ...._

 

Yes...it's an improvement for sure. Combine the SUN HDAMs with your new reg boards from audio-gd in the H/Amp section and I bet the Zero will bring a huge grin to your face 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Current config is 1 Earth in DAC, 2 SUN in H/Amp. Seems to be a fantastic combination.

 I'll know more in a couple of days when the SUN modules have burned in (pun!!!) completely...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alxwang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You are so right. That's why I put another order already.
 I just found out this sun/earth really can be put into a lot unit. Not only zero._

 

Exactly..!!! Any CDP/AMP/DAC/Preamp that uses compatible opamps can use the HDAMS.....provided the circuit and power supply can handle the job. Even still you can add their own voltage reg and tranny to get around that limitation if need be.

 Lots of applications for these. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## fugimax

As of last night around midnight, I've officially got a Zero on the way from Audiophilechina, and 2 SUN / 2 EARTH coming from audio-gd.

 It's great doing this stuff at night when it's morning there in China ... quick responses!

 Peete, or anyone who's changed out the opamps, is there anything I'm going to need specifically, or do the chips just pop out of the sockets?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fugimax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As of last night around midnight, I've officially got a Zero on the way from Audiophilechina, and 2 SUN / 2 EARTH coming from audio-gd.

 It's great doing this stuff at night when it's morning there in China ... quick responses!

 Peete, or anyone who's changed out the opamps, is there anything I'm going to need specifically, or do the chips just pop out of the sockets?_

 

Maybe a small tool to gently lift/pry the stock chips out with....just work one side a tiny bit than switch to the other end and repeat until it comes loose. The pins can be bent easily on the IC's so be careful. That's all you need....

 Welcome to the Zero owners club....hope you have a soldering iron 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That should be my new sig motto 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Try OPA-Sun, Andrea. It's very very good IMO, and I like the 1028 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## azncookiecutter

The return of Andrea, eh?

 For the life of me, I cannot plug in the optical cable from the Zero to my laptop. To my understanding, to be properly connected, you need to hear a click for the Toslink cable to function properly? I've been trying to force in the cable to no avail.


----------



## fugimax

Quote:


 hope you have a soldering iron 
 

What are some of the mods that require a soldering iron?


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fugimax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What are some of the mods that require a soldering iron?_

 

The obvious one that comes to mind would be the Alps Pot upgrade, I'm sure theirs more, but this one seams to be the more common upgrade that requires soldering.


----------



## exe

Since this is my first post, I would like to start off by saying that Head-Fi has been a great resource for me. (I've been a member for 2+ years) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was hoping someone here could help me. 

 Today I received my Zero, it works well and I like it allot. However, the unit itself outputs a distinct and quite annoying humming sound. I've opened it up, and the sound seems to be originating from the transformer. The humming persists regardless of input, settings or which socket I plug it in to. There is no change even if the amp is idle, and being the only device plugged in (grounded socket). I should also note that I'm running it on 220V.

 I have no idea if/how this can be fixed. Does anyone else?


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *exe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Since this is my first post, I would like to start off by saying that Head-Fi has been a great resource for me. (I've been a member for 2+ years) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was hoping someone here could help me. 

 Today I received my Zero, it works well and I like it allot. However, the unit itself outputs a distinct and quite annoying humming sound. I've opened it up, and the sound seems to be originating from the transformer. The humming persists regardless of input, settings or which socket I plug it in to. There is no change even if the amp is idle, and being the only device plugged in (grounded socket). I should also note that I'm running it on 220V.

 I have no idea if/how this can be fixed. Does anyone else?_

 

You can find some suggestions on troubleshooting that issue here: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/zer...roblem-344689/

 Hope this helps


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *exe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Since this is my first post, I would like to start off by saying that Head-Fi has been a great resource for me. (I've been a member for 2+ years) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was hoping someone here could help me. 

 Today I received my Zero, it works well and I like it allot. However, the unit itself outputs a distinct and quite annoying humming sound. I've opened it up, and the sound seems to be originating from the transformer. The humming persists regardless of input, settings or which socket I plug it in to. There is no change even if the amp is idle, and being the only device plugged in (grounded socket). I should also note that I'm running it on 220V.

 I have no idea if/how this can be fixed. Does anyone else?_

 

Remove the top case - 6 screws.
 Remove the bolt running through the centre of the transformer.
 Lift transformer out of chassis.
 Fit small piece of insulating foam.
 Rebuild.






 ~Phewl.


----------



## dario

But finally what are the main real audible differences between sun and earth?
 And there is more improvment using them in dac or amp (for now if I have understanded right, nothing has tried three hdam in zero)...


----------



## exe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Remove the top case - 6 screws.
 Remove the bolt running through the centre of the transformer.
 Lift transformer out of chassis.
 Fit small piece of insulating foam.
 Rebuild.






 ~Phewl._

 

Wow. Fast, to the point and seemingly a very plausible solution. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Will try it as soon as I finish my pasta and find a piece of insulating foam.

 Thanks (to DaMnEd as well)!


----------



## AudioPhewl

No problem. Best of luck with it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

AP who left the front gate open again...the troll is back 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I swear I locked it when I last came in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 dario check page 580. I'm running 3 HDAMS right now with the Zero. Too early to say with the SUN modules what they sound like specifically.. but it is an improvement over the LT1364's that were in the H/Amp previously IMO, much like the improvements discovered when swapping out the dac opamp for an HDAM module. 

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *azncookiecutter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The return of Andrea, eh?

 For the life of me, I cannot plug in the optical cable from the Zero to my laptop. To my understanding, to be properly connected, you need to hear a click for the Toslink cable to function properly? I've been trying to force in the cable to no avail._

 

Do you have another cable to try out ?

 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_AP who left the front gate open again...the troll is back 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I swear I locked it when I last came in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You know, I really don't mind Andrea. Can't speak about what happened before my time here, but he seems to speak about what he believes, which can be a welcome break from folk on certain websites who just repeat what the current favourite sayings are. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Andrea - do you have boobs? I keep wondering if you're male of female, but never get a chance to see the answer... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## exe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No problem. Best of luck with it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl._

 

Just wanted thanks again -- it worked! Not I can enjoy my Zero for real.


----------



## dario

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_AP who left the front gate open again...the troll is back 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I swear I locked it when I last came in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 dario check page 580. I'm running 3 HDAMS right now with the Zero. Too early to say with the SUN modules what they sound like specifically.. but it is an improvement over the LT1364's that were in the H/Amp previously IMO, much like the improvements discovered when swapping out the dac opamp for an HDAM module. 

 Peete._

 

I mean about sound, what is the *real* difference between the two (not simple datasheet), what change in sound?


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *exe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just wanted thanks again -- it worked! Not I can enjoy my Zero for real. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Glad you sorted it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dario* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I mean about sound, what is the *real* difference between the two (not simple datasheet), what change in sound?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I can't say as of yet...they are not burned in . They have only been in the amp for less than 10 hours of running time.....I've said this a number of times already...

 Be patient, maybe someone else can help today or tomorrow with that but it'll be at least a week before I can truthfully give an honest description of what you ask for...

 Peete.


----------



## Lapwing

How the hell did this thread get to be 582 pages long??!!
 Can someone who has been paying attention the whole time please summarize for me?

 Is this the longest thread ever on head-fi?


----------



## falke401

We should have a separate area just for the Zero amp/dac. Like a general questions, mods/tweaks, where to buy, ect... Its just too much to take in at once and the topic changes randomly


----------



## quachhanthanh143

I only have 1 LM4562,can i use it for headphone section??
 If i can,what opamp i can change,near the volume pot or near the headphone jack??
 I dun have seperate amp and i use Zero as dac and headamp.
 Sory for my english.^^"


----------



## taso89

^ You need to have two of the same opamps in the headphone section. I don't know what happens if you don't but at the very least you'll have different sound in your left and right channels, and at the worst I suppose some damage could occur. Either way, there's no point in doing it.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You know, I really don't mind Andrea. Can't speak about what happened before my time here, but he seems to speak about what he believes, which can be a welcome break from folk on certain websites who just repeat what the current favourite sayings are. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Andrea - do you have boobs? I keep wondering if you're male of female, but never get a chance to see the answer... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 

This is a question that seems obvious to me but has gone unasked as of yet....but here goes anyway....what relevance does his data serve if the DAC he's using isn't a Zero in the Zero thread ? He's never had a working Zero to base the comparison with.....all he knows ( and I doubt that's truthful either) apparently, is how to walk the walk and talk the talk...to remain convincing enough to seem credible. A skillfully set trap can be laid by a moron with little training......

 I'm not defending the Zero...it can stand on it's own merits quite happily without my help. I just don't like BS artists is all.

 Sorry to burst the bubble, there are two lumps and a nut riddled log in Andreas trousers (Teets are optional)....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is a question that seems obvious to me but has gone unasked as of yet....but here goes anyway....what relevance does his data serve if the DAC he's using isn't a Zero in the Zero thread ? He's never had a working Zero to base the comparison with.....all he knows ( and I doubt that's truthful either) apparently, is how to walk the walk and talk the talk...to remain convincing enough to seem credible. A skillfully set trap can be laid by a moron with little training......

 I'm not defending the Zero...it can stand on it's own merits quite happily without my help. I just don't like BS artists is all.

 Sorry to burst the bubble, there are two lumps and log in Andreas trousers (Teets are optional)....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

More like two small marbles and a pencil eraser!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

LOL..come on now, that's low (joking) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Peete.

 PS I've revised the last statement to "a nut riddled log"


----------



## dario

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can't say as of yet...they are not burned in . They have only been in the amp for less than 10 hours of running time.....I've said this a number of times already...

 Be patient, maybe someone else can help today or tomorrow with that but it'll be at least a week before I can truthfully give an honest description of what you ask for...

 Peete._

 

I understand, thank you for your patience and fairness
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I will wait your review


----------



## quachhanthanh143

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *taso89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ You need to have two of the same opamps in the headphone section. I don't know what happens if you don't but at the very least you'll have different sound in your left and right channels, and at the worst I suppose some damage could occur. Either way, there's no point in doing it._

 

i thought in headphone section,one NE is used for headphone and another one is used for pre amp.that's silly!^^"


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL..come on now, that's low (joking) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Peete.

 PS I've revised the last statement to "a nut riddled log" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Eeeeeeewwwwwwww! Yuck!

 How about two amoeba's and a virus?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Eeeeeeewwwwwwww! Yuck!

 How about two amoeba's and a virus? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Works for me....dang it all, now I want an Oh Henry bar 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


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## Pricklely Peete

Man the mods here are fast.....Andrea is gone...thanks guys !!!!

 Peete.


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## Hales

I put in arrows to help you see where I had to clean up the solder. This is how the Zero came from the factory. You might want to check them before firing them up.

 2 attempted shorts and a long tail of solder.





 In a hurry?





 I think they tried to clean this one up.





 These are all the analog + and - outputs from the DAC. Note the 2 successful shorts on the top right.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Works for me....dang it all, now I want an Oh Henry bar 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Oh maaann .... I'm glad I've had my brekky already, now I need a cuppa tea! 
 I'm positively salivating now .... and NO, it's not from the ... um ... previous conversation! I have so much bloody stuff flying to me from China it's ridiculous! 2 sets of the HDAMs are on the way, Zero is nearly here, new ALPS pot, 1364s, 1028s, 1057s (these last two are probably redundant now, dammit) ..... and the dinky little 627AUs, which came yesterday, are a revelation in my headamp! These little tackers alone have been worth the visit to Head-Fi, let alone the conversations and finding Zero. They are soooo transparent to the signal before them, all of my CDs sound even more uniquely different and just so musical. Soundstaging is superb and the width has increased after only 11 hours burn in. Imaging is holographic, the first time I have ever heard that from an op-amp, this from both the HD540s and the new HD555s, which are now starting to really sing, they truly sounded quite awful before breaking in. A day of Tool helped them along! 
 As soon as the new Alps pot arrives it will go into the Zero, experience tells me cheap carbon pots are easily bested by the ALPS Blue models and their cousins, usually noticeably more transparent.
 Since the addition of the 627s has already transformed my listening experience with the Trevor Lees tube pre-amp, I am so looking forward to hearing the Zero (esp with HDAMs, and I'll have spares to choose from, SUN or Earth, to pop in place of the 627s in my current headamp later on) through my most favourite Pre. 
 I'm going to stop spending now and just enjoy playing and most importantly, LISTENING TO MUSIC! Which is the whole point of it all. 
 Already done plenty of changing things for the sake of it over the years and it hasn't always been musically beneficial. The blessing of Head-Fi and this thread is to bring greater musical satisfaction to our music collections, the way I see it. 
 I remember hearing some $65,000 Infinity speakers in a big system one day and was disappointed. I went home to my modest Linn t/t, Plinius pre, homebuilt 100W mono amps and the lovely little JPW P1 speakers and enjoyed far more musical satisfaction! 
 Hence, I completely agree with Peete's comments about the wonderful value and easy tweakability of the Zero and it's compatriots. Sometimes it's just the simpler and compatibly connected systems that really shine and that's also where I see the huge value of this thread, at the very least where the Zero is concerned. Head-Fi rocks! 
 Three Amigos, OY OY OY!

 RE the above pics of shoddy board clean-up, I certainly WILL be checking mine when it comes! Nothing a bit of Isopropyl alcohol and an old toothbrush can't handle.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *quachhanthanh143* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i thought in headphone section,one NE is used for headphone and another one is used for pre amp.that's silly!^^"_

 

Ok I'll bite..

 Amana-pharumph-tha-mumps or whatever your name is, WHY is it silly ?


 Peete.


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## Pricklely Peete

Thanks Hales.....mine wasn't nearly that sloppy...must be the increased demand for units...check those pcbs guys...taking the excess solder off is really easy...trimming long leads is just as easy. Be careful handling the boards...the IC's are easy to send a static shock through...so be careful.

 Thanks again for the latest example pics from the factory H.

 Which vendor was that BTW ?

 Peete.


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## Pricklely Peete

PS I'm not saying sloppy work is acceptable at any price....


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Agreed S-Man....synergy trumps everything regardless of price.

 OY 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Peete.


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## azncookiecutter

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you have another cable to try out ?

 Peete._

 

No other cable to try out. Might try to spring for a cable from Monoprice when I move into my new place next week. For now, no Zero to play around with.


----------



## fugimax

I really want my zero to be here, like, now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyone have experience with how long audiophilechina.com takes?


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_snip_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_snip_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_snip_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_snip_

 

Nope, I tested, and there's nothing wrong with the multiquote-function. Check!

 EDIT: And neither is the edit-funktion. Check!

 (I rather keep the almost 600 pages as few as possible)


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## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cap tured* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One very nice thing about the SVDAC05 I'm using, is that it has a very rational and cost-effective design of its output stages:

 The line output level is slightly above average, 3V RMS vs. the typical 2V RMS, which has enabled the designer to just use a discrete transistor current buffer (with no further voltage gain stages) for driving the headphone output. This way you don't have the signal going through multiple opamps: only one single opamp per channel, in total, both for the line out and for the headphone out, which are decoupled from each other by the above mentioned discrete buffer (that serves to buffer the headphone out alone). This also defies the need for DC blocking caps between analog filter and headphone amp. The presence of a very accurate digital volume control (taking advantage of the on-chip non-decimating attenuator of the CS4398) is the icing on the cake.

 This is what one would call "clever design". The best thing about it is that it doesn't have to be expensive. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You do know that this is a Zero thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Theres at least one SVDAC05 thread in the Dedicated Source equipment section


----------



## Currawong

This issue with bad solder joints is unfortunately a good example of what happens when Chinese goods become popular - the makers get rushed and become sloppy. My Little Dot MKV has a poorly finished front plate as I bought it at the height of its popularity.

 If anyone from Zero or audio-gd are reading, this is a suggestion to you all: Don't become sloppy and rush manufacturing your gear or you'll lose your reputation as fast as you gained it.


----------



## NumpXP

sorry to interrupt your discussion,but if i were to roll headphone opamp, do i have to swap both of them, coz i'm seeing 2 opamps near the headphone jack.

 thanks


----------



## BigTony

Has anyone compared this DAC/Headphone combination to the Beresford DAC with HP out? Curious as I own the Beresford, and it seems my DV 332 is dead, so I'm looking into another amp that I would be happy to open up and fiddle with?

 Cheers

 BT


----------



## ccschua

Hi guys,

 PP has given the thumbs up for the 3 OPA (1 in dac and 2 in headphone). Anyone more has some review ?


----------



## Hales

Hey Pete -

 I agree that the soldering should be cleaner than it is - even at this price. When I was initially looking over the board I found 4 or 5 circuits that I thought were shorted, but my multimeter (Fluke model 16) only showed 2 circuits actually shorted by sloppy solder. I cleaned them up with a plastic tweaker tool and engineer's picks and the readings on the meter went back to normal.

 My Zero is also still outgassing fumes from the transformer after 4 weeks of use. I think its the smell of the phenol resin they may have used to insulate it. Whatever it is, its got a hyrdrocarbon smell to it.

 I now have a sealed my Zero. I attached a low profile heat sink inside the case to the bottom of the lid and a large aluminum heat sink to the top of the lid. This keeps the heat down while sealing up the vents on the back of the lid. Sealing the vents keeps the smell inside the unit. The next step is to move the transformer and AC into a separate enclosure. This should also make room for the new dedicated 3v power regulation I am working on for the receiver chip's jitter prone (when the power is badly filtered or shared) VA input. 

 Even with all the hassles, this thing sounds great. Its definitely worth it to jump through a few hurdles for the sound you get at the end.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys,

 PP has given the thumbs up for the 3 OPA (1 in dac and 2 in headphone). Anyone more has some review ?_

 

Hey ccschua,

 I have some coming, so I can also test this. If PP says "thumbs up", my testing will just be a confirmation. His ears are excellent and his judgment is as well.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nope, I tested, and there's nothing wrong with the multiquote-function. Check!

 EDIT: And neither is the edit-funktion. Check!

 (I rather keep the almost 600 pages as few as possible)_

 

LOL....okay Henmyr I get the point 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A new thread for all the tweaks/mods/upgrades/ideas/ etc will be coming in the DIY section, so this thread will be somewhat slower in growth from that time on...I hope.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hales* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Pete -

 I agree that the soldering should be cleaner than it is - even at this price. When I was initially looking over the board I found 4 or 5 circuits that I thought were shorted, but my multimeter (Fluke model 16) only showed 2 circuits actually shorted by sloppy solder. I cleaned them up with a plastic tweaker tool and engineer's picks and the readings on the meter went back to normal.

 My Zero is also still outgassing fumes from the transformer after 4 weeks of use. I think its the smell of the phenol resin they may have used to insulate it. Whatever it is, its got a hyrdrocarbon smell to it.

 I now have a sealed my Zero. I attached a low profile heat sink inside the case to the bottom of the lid and a large aluminum heat sink to the top of the lid. This keeps the heat down while sealing up the vents on the back of the lid. Sealing the vents keeps the smell inside the unit. The next step is to move the transformer and AC into a separate enclosure. This should also make room for the new dedicated 3v power regulation I am working on for the receiver chip's jitter prone (when the power is badly filtered or shared) VA input. 

 Even with all the hassles, this thing sounds great. Its definitely worth it to jump through a few hurdles for the sound you get at the end._

 

Sounds good Hales.....it's a tough call to say which trail of solder will be an actual short or not. The meter confirms or denies the assumptions. I still can't quite get used to that smell...for some reason it's both repulsive and attractive at the same time...kinda like caviar 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Keep us apprised of the 3V reg mod + your case build. This sounds very interesting to an old tweak happy fiddler 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 The current mod Pench and I have completed does a great job of cleaning up power delivery thus the benefits are felt throughout the entire dac. Your isolation of that 3V line should yield decent results. Will you have to cut traces on the main pcb in order to feed the IC ? Wheres your tap in point going to be ?

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys,

 PP has given the thumbs up for the 3 OPA (1 in dac and 2 in headphone). Anyone more has some review ?_

 

With one caveat. The heat issue has to be addressed before I'm comfortable with 3 HDAMs in the Zero with the stock cover back on....I don't have the lid on at the moment. I'm dazzled by all the pretty lights 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


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## ccschua

I hope the green lights is not simmering. But it is kind of fun to watch it.

 The heat issue needs some attention, also is there any outcome output voltage adjustment.

 The OPA uses cascoding design in class A, which gives some harmonics distortion on output. Well not all harmonic distortion is bad, especially the even harmonics. Tube amp gives more of the even harmonics and that's what tube fans loves it.


----------



## alxwang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With one caveat. The heat issue has to be addressed before I'm comfortable with 3 HDAMs in the Zero with the stock cover back on....I don't have the lid on at the moment. I'm dazzled by all the pretty lights 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

My little hint to solve this heat problem:

 1. Cut part of top cover. Actully what I did is just extent the grill part to fit the 140mm fan and four hole for screw to mount the fan.
 2. Mount this on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Scythe Kaze Maru 140MM Cooling Fan 500RPM 10.8DBA 29.3CFM. It cost me 10$ and so quiet. Make sure using this king of screw:





 - keep in mind the fan is 2.5cm height.
 3. Do what ever you can do to about dust protection. I did nothing .

 You can choose best position of the cut for the fan. Actually no big difference as long as the air flow exist.

 The power input: Because I do care about whether can output to max(the fans need 40ma input) and I do not really want to steal anything from Zero(3 HADM in) so I just connect to it a 9V rechargeable for now. Maybe I can get this power from Zero but I need to understand Zero a little better.


----------



## Hales

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your isolation of that 3V line should yield decent results. Will you have to cut traces on the main pcb in order to feed the IC ? Wheres your tap in point going to be ?

 Peete._

 

The info in the CD8416 can be found here - http://www.cirrus.com/en/pubs/proDat.../CS8416_F3.pdf

 From the Datasheet:

 "Pin 6 - Analog Power (Input) - Analog power supply. Nominally +3.3 V. This supply should have as little noise as possible since noise on this pin will directly affect the jitter performance of the recovered clock."

 "A separate analog supply is only necessary in applications where RMCK is used for a jitter sensitive task. For applications where RMCK is not used for a jitter sensitive task, connect VA to VD via a ferrite bead. Keep decoupling
 capacitors between VA and AGND."

 From what I see:

 On the Zero the VA and VD (Digital Power Supply - Pin 23) appear to share the same power supply even though the CS8416 is performing a jitter sensitive task. I consider recovering the incoming clock to be about as jitter sensitive an application as there is.

 The datasheet is very clear in saying the VA supply as well as the PLL filter circuit should be kept on the same side of the board and as close to the chip as possible. On the Zero, the VA passes through, joins another supply, and traces around before being filtered or decoupled.

 So I was planning to cut the circuit on top of the board right before the pass-through. I was then planning to solder in a shielded cable on the bottom of the board right beside the chip to feed the 3.3v to the VA. 

 Bottom of the board - 





 And here is where the signal passes through to the top -


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Great solutions guys !!! 

 I'm still not thrilled about adding active cooling so I'm sitting on the fence at the moment. I have some copper heatsinks somewhere around the house....I'll try that first..and if it's still too hot well looks like an active cooling unit may have to be installed....or get a bigger case and properly mount the regs to big sinks in the new case...not the best solution money wise.

 Just thinking out loud again.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Excellent Hales.....I love it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Looks like a great tweak. What type of reg board are you going to use and are you going with a separate transformer ?

 LC mentioned a while back about splitting and isolating the supplies but said it wasn't possible for him to do and keep the cost where it is...which makes perfect sense.

 If you need parts for this, a good place I've found is Wellborn Labs. They have some very nice kits but the pricing is a little high.

 For those viewing these mods, keep this in mind, at one point or another all of us have this moment in our lives "that's so complicated I don't have a chance in hell of doing all that". Keep learning, experimenting, practicing and studying and it will pay off.

 Peete.


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## Pricklely Peete

I have to go now guys...I'll be back in 6 hours or so...depending on rush hour traffic etc...

 Peete.


----------



## Hales

Right now I am working from spare parts I have lying around. I am hoping to get everything I need for the power supply from my dearly departed Marantz 6000OSE. I was planning to breadboard the supply and put it where the current transformer sits. I was also planning to use the existing transformer to feed it. I am worried about grounding issues if I were to use a separate transformer, but this way I will still have a common ground. I just have not had the time to do get past the planning stage.

 Pete - I have a question for you too. Has anyone tried to put balanced outputs on the Zero? The DAC outputs a balanced analog signal, but I have not taken the time to see where the Zero converts it to single ended. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Excellent Hales.....I love it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Looks like a great tweak. What type of reg board are you going to use and are you going with a separate transformer ?

 LC mentioned a while back about splitting and isolating the supplies but said it wasn't possible for him to do and keep the cost where it is...which makes perfect sense.

 If you need parts for this, a good place I've found is Wellborn Labs. They have some very nice kits but the pricing is a little high.

 For those viewing these mods, keep this in mind, at one point or another all of us have this moment in our lives "that's so complicated I don't have a chance in hell of doing all that". Keep learning, experimenting, practicing and studying and it will pay off.

 Peete._


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hales* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Right now I am working from spare parts I have lying around. I am hoping to get everything I need for the power supply from my dearly departed Marantz 6000OSE. I was planning to breadboard the supply and put it where the current transformer sits. I was also planning to use the existing transformer to feed it. I just have not had the time to do get past the planning stage.

 Pete - I have a question for you too. Has anyone tried to put balanced outputs on the Zero? The DAC outputs a balanced analog signal, but I have not taken the time to see where the Zero converts it to single ended._

 

Cool...sorry to hear of Marantz hitting the road on you...nice CDP that was er is...No one has tried the balanced mod yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That (balanced output) is also an interesting mod well worth investigating...imagine a fully balanced Zero for under 300 bucks, once all the other mods are completed...wouldn't that be something 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I look forward to your experiences with the mods and the end results 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.

 PS I have to go...really I do


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry to burst the bubble, there are two lumps and a nut riddled log in Andreas trousers (Teets are optional)....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

My word, that raised a smile 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


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## sennsay

WOOOHOOO!!! Zero is in NZ as of two days ago! WOW, that's brilliant service, it was shipped on Saturday 23rd from HK, though it seems to have taken 4 days or so of processing in HK before leaving the country. Onya snow46_8.
 Do I feel like a little kid at Christmas .... do I huh ..do I huh? It might be here today so I ain't leavin' the house til it gets here! 
 Now let me see ...... soldering iron and isopropyl alcohol are at the ready (gotta check those boards are ok) .... the big Yamaha A900 amp is warmed up already .... CDP is firing on all 8 ... headphones are warmed up ... OPA627s are hot (truly!) and giving me a 3D holographic show on my best, and mostly simplest, recordings ...ok, I'm set .......... maybe I'll go and have some brekky. ........ I'll be back.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WOOOHOOO!!! Zero is in NZ as of two days ago! WOW, that's brilliant service, it was shipped on Saturday 23rd from HK, though it seems to have taken 4 days or so of processing in HK before leaving the country. Onya snow46_8.
 Do I feel like a little kid at Christmas .... do I huh ..do I huh? It might be here today so I ain't leavin' the house til it gets here! 
 Now let me see ...... soldering iron and isopropyl alcohol are at the ready (gotta check those boards are ok) .... the big Yamaha A900 amp is warmed up already .... CDP is firing on all 8 ... headphones are warmed up ... OPA627s are hot (truly!) and giving me a 3D holographic show on my best, and mostly simplest, recordings ...ok, I'm set .......... maybe I'll go and have some brekky. ........ I'll be back._

 

You know S-Man if I didn't know better, you seem to be excited about something 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What that is though......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Enjoy the toy !!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Having a cold one right now..Creemore Springs ...ahhhhhh.

 Peete.


----------



## fugimax

Asked this earlier, but I'll ask again because this thread took off:

 Anyone have experience ordering from Audiophilechina? I ordered two days ago, paid, but haven't heard a word from them..


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fugimax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Asked this earlier, but I'll ask again because this thread took off:

 Anyone have experience ordering from Audiophilechina? I ordered two days ago, paid, but haven't heard a word from them.._

 

Can't say I have....that's not unusual not to hear anything for a few days. Email them again to ask what's happening.

 I've only delt with LC, Little Dot, DIY HiFi Supply, NY Sound and Audio-GD so far ( thats quite a few 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ). None of them answered back right away..in some cases a week...but they all delivered what I had ordered and in working order.

 Peete.


----------



## fugimax

Quote:


 Email them again to ask what's happening. 
 

Did just that, and found out they shipped it yesterday. 

 4-7 days until awesometown.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fugimax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did just that, and found out they shipped it yesterday. 

 4-7 days until awesometown._

 

LOL.....cool !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


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## falke401

I paid for the Zero from Lawrence on thrusday and have not heard a thing since.....I hope you guys are right. I sent an email the other day and nothing. Im crossing my fingers!!


----------



## sennsay

Righto, Zero Owner's Club, I'm back. Zero has entered the building! The newest baby has been appraised for nappy rash, ie, rough solder joins etc and has been found 99% VG, I just touched up a couple of dodgy bits of blobby solder and the teensiest little wispy solder bridge, which may or may not have had any effect at all but it's gone now anyway. Otherwise, it's a lovely little unit and smaller than I expected as well, the pictures make it look bigger than it is. All very fine at first switch-on BUT A WORD OF WARNING to those who use the line out (ie using it as a pre-amp) WITHOUT FIRST MAKING SURE THE PRE-AMP LIGHT IS ACTUALLY GREEN!! God almighty, I'm still recovering from the near heart attacks (yes, twice!) when the full output of the pre-amp runs straight into a sensitive 130W amp! I thought I was going to have to scrape the speaker cones out of the wall at the other end of the room! Jeez Wayne. Oh, we can laugh about it now .... but my chest actually hurt at the time, man what a shock! Thankfully, the speaker cones are still in their cabinets and things are sounding rather good, very clean and tuneful. The headamp, I am very happy to say, has miles of grunt and is by far the best thing I have heard yet driving the notoriously difficult to drive 600 ohm Senn HD540Rs, stacks of gain and don't those headamp output transistors run warm! Must be well biased into the warm zone.
 Wonderfully, my Zero has the nice little USB to Toslink adapter with it, exactly as advertised, so I can use it from my G4 iBook. Good onya snow46_8, good job mate, fast service, excellent packaging, everything came with it that was supposed to be and at the price of $99US is unbeatable. All up $211NZD, not including the extra op-amps, HDAMs and ALPS pot, which will be here in the next day or two, does this define a genuine musical bargain or what? It does for me! 
 You're right Penchum, the headamp is really quite smooth with a nice warmth, the Senn 555s sound the best I've heard them yet, from a balance point of view, they can sound bright and a tad thin through some amplifiers and I'm rapt the 540s now have a great amp match! They may be an older model with the odd flaw here and there, but I love the things and they are sooo comfortable and wonderfully rhythmic and tuneful.
 I've left the lid off the Zero for now, just to check on the heat really and I so love the smell of new electronics slowly cooking in! 
 Happy camper here, just going to let things go for a few days now and burn in, sounds good from new but a bit fresh, as one would expect. Time for a nice brew of Havana beans with some music playing and the feet up. Thanks a large bunch to you, Penchum, Peete and the others for this amazing thread, it's changed my musical life for the better. OY OY OY!


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You know S-Man if I didn't know better, you seem to be excited about something 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What that is though......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Enjoy the toy !!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Having a cold one right now..Creemore Springs ...ahhhhhh.

 Peete._

 

Ahh yes ... clinking of glasses .... am enjoying the toy ... bit cool here for beer but a fine warm brown brew will definitely do. Where is Creemore Springs, mate? Where I am in Gisborne, is the first mainland city in the world to see the light of the new day, first sunrise. Maybe not today, pretty overcast and gloomy but it's still a fine day to me!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Hi S-Man,

 Glad yours was fairly clean (build wise on the pcb underside)...hopefully what Hale encountered was a fluke (sorry Hale).

 Thanks for the kind words !! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Creemore Springs is a little town about 120 klms NNW from where I live (Southern Ontario, near Toronto). I've been buying it for over 20 years now...don't drink all that often but 4 hours to cover just 65 miles today (damn traffic) will make anyone drink afterwards 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The brewery is named after the towns numerous underground springs and aquifers. Made with that water and 4 other ingredients. They follow the Bavarian purity law from the 16th century.

 The Zero's volume pot, if not turned down when the pre amp is engaged, can give you a good blast as you have found out.

 I always check the Volume knob before hitting the power switch (on every piece of gear I have actually) ...I learned that lesson the hard way a long time ago. My speakers silk dome tweeters didn't survive the encounter at that time (30 years ago) ...

 The Zero takes about 100 hours or so to mature, the HDAM about 75.

 Your gonna crap a brick when you hear what the HDAM does for the Zero 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Enjoy !!!!!

 Peete.


----------



## fugimax

Is there a link to info on this ALPS pot mod? Again, having trouble coming the thread for the right info.

 Also, have people tried to measure the sonic differences at all between the different opamps? I mean, I can imagine routing the headphone output back into a computer, recording the output, switching opamps, then doing the same thing to see changes in the waveforms / FFT / etc. Seems like this would reveal some concrete changes between opamps, no?


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi S-Man,

 Glad yours was fairly clean (build wise on the pcb underside)...hopefully what Hale encountered was a fluke (sorry Hale).

 Thanks for the kind words !! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Creemore Springs is a little town about 120 klms NNW from where I live (Southern Ontario, near Toronto). I've been buying it for over 20 years now...don't drink all that often but 4 hours to cover just 65 miles today (damn traffic) will make anyone drink afterwards 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The brewery is named after the towns numerous underground springs and aquifers. Made with that water and 4 other ingredients. They follow the Bavarian purity law from the 16th century.

 The Zero's volume pot, if not turned down when the pre amp is engaged, can give you a good blast as you have found out.

 I always check the Volume knob before hitting the power switch (on every piece of gear I have actually) ...I learned that lesson the hard way a long time ago. My speakers silk dome tweeters didn't survive the encounter at that time (30 years ago) ...

 The Zero takes about 100 hours or so to mature, the HDAM about 75.

 Your gonna crap a brick when you hear what the HDAM does for the Zero 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Enjoy !!!!!

 Peete._

 

 Heh heh, I'll prepare for rectangular eliminations then. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Creemore sounds nice, buddy, but the drive doesn't sound so hot, sounds like driving around Brisbane in Queensland, Australia. I lived in OZ for 17 years until April of last year. Brissy's a shocker sometimes. 
 Yes, Zero has lots of burn-in to do for sure, though it is interesting to hear how clean and open it sounds right out of the box.
 I'm going to go out for an exercise walk around the fitness trail, leave Zero to entertain some cans on it's own for a while, since there has been no unwanted burning smells coming from the nooby electronics. Cheers,


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fugimax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there a link to info on this ALPS pot mod? Again, having trouble coming the thread for the right info._

 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/4226887-post3219.html


----------



## fugimax

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_http://www.head-fi.org/forums/4226887-post3219.html



_

 

Awesome, thanks. Unfortunate that the pot is only available through Lawrence (no offense to him, I just hear he's usually overwhelmed with orders). 

 So the main improvement here is that the Zero can put out unbalanced sound at low-levels, and this mod fixes it, eh?


----------



## gavszero

Glad to say I did my first Soldering mod on my Zero today on the Blue LED Lights . Took me a while as I found it a little fiddly and those tiny solder wholes . I wanted to turn the high beam lights down 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The forum recommended to use 3 x 4.7kohms but I went one slightly more at 5.6kohms. It is so much better now and more like park lights rather then 100 watt high beam burning into your retina if you looked at it too long .. It's actually slightly lower then the phones light and seems just perfect and what it should have been out of the factory .

 I'm still up in the air as to which the OPA-Sun or OPA-Earth will stay in the DAC section . Both have 130 hours plus burn in and so far I find the Earth to be suitable for all types of music and found the Sun a bit too forward on some recordings ... I like both though , if I swap them too many times I have a feeling one or two of the wires will eventually breck off . So I guess I'm leaning towards the Neutral sound rather then the dynamic ..

 Gavin ...


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fugimax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Awesome, thanks. Unfortunate that the pot is only available through Lawrence (no offense to him, I just hear he's usually overwhelmed with orders). 

 So the main improvement here is that the Zero can put out unbalanced sound at low-levels, and this mod fixes it, eh?_

 

Yes, mine is quite unbalanced at very low volume, though only at looow volume. However, on sensitive cans this will make a difference. Experience tells me it's almost always worth putting a classier pot in, they are usually more transparent to the sound as well. I will do the mod as soon as mine arrives in a few days. Lawrence often seems to take a few days to get to some mail, but he does get there. He's been terrific with me.


----------



## fugimax

Quote:


 Lawrence often seems to take a few days to get to some mail, but he does get there. He's been terrific with me. 
 

What's his contact info, and what's the price?


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fugimax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What's his contact info, and what's the price?_

 

lawrencechanbig@msn.com Price is $15US + freight, not sure how much to the US. Strangely, it was cheaper to send it here in NZ than the States, unlike anything else I've bought lately. Maybe he's got more stock in, 'cos mine was sent almost immediately. Good luck with it.


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fugimax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Awesome, thanks. Unfortunate that the pot is only available through Lawrence (no offense to him, I just hear he's usually overwhelmed with orders)._

 

I belive this on one ebay would work, you would just have to take the casing out, just like Lawrence does.


----------



## ccschua

Hi guys,

 The sales of OPA Sun and Earth is so overwhelming (more than 200 sets of OPA Sun and Earth sold ) that audio-gd has run out of stock on PCB.

 If u purchase before 31 Aug 2008, u are still entitled to 1 OPA Sun/Earth to 1OPA Earth free promotion. However the delivery will be after 15 Sept due to reordering of PCB.

 3 more days before offer ends.


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I belive this on one ebay would work, you would just have to take the casing out, just like Lawrence does. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I thought so, but this can't be done simply because you can't use the Alps RK27 without case.

 I opened one, it is completely different.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I belive this on one ebay would work, you would just have to take the casing out, just like Lawrence does. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Everything is not as it appears. The upgrade Alps pot Lawrence was selling is an NOS pot, and so far, is the only one found that will fit in the space available. Everyone has been waiting to find out if any of the newer Alps will fit, but the measurements don't look to promising. If you review the pics of the pot upgrade, you'll notice a cap sitting almost against the new pot. That should give you an idea of how little space is there for a new replacement pot.

 The replacement pot in the pics, the NOS one, isn't one of the new ones with the blue housing. This has been verified previously.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought so, but this can't be done simply because you can't use the Alps RK27 without case.

 I opened one, it is completely different._

 

See my last post.


----------



## ccschua

Looks like there will be another OPA to burn the ZERO DAC. This time it will be the Class A single ended output - OPA Moon. Really can't wait to have the OPA for try. It will be very soon, hopefully audio-gd is not too busy with the orders.
 Imagine having a class A output (Single ended !!!)


----------



## Hales

Pete and Penchum - Trying to find your power supply mods talked about in detail. No luck. Is this info waiting on the new DIY thread?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hales* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pete and Penchum - Trying to find your power supply mods talked about in detail. No luck. Is this info waiting on the new DIY thread?_

 

Hey Hales,

 Yep, its waiting on the new thread. There is a bunch of data to sort out and goodies to write about, so it is taking some time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 One of us will put out a notice here in the review thread when the DIY review and DIY instructions are completed and posted. We'll include a link too.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys,

 The sales of OPA Sun and Earth is so overwhelming (more than 200 sets of OPA Sun and Earth sold ) that audio-gd has run out of stock on PCB.

 If u purchase before 31 Aug 2008, u are still entitled to 1 OPA Sun/Earth to 1OPA Earth free promotion. However the delivery will be after 15 Sept due to reordering of PCB.

 3 more days before offer ends._

 

I've just ordered two..... Kingwa will check if he still got on stock to send me tomorrow..... But for instance, he is out of stock......

 Well.... no problem, I can perctly live with mine 627


----------



## AudioPhewl

Cor... going from a few days on the OPA-Sun, down to the OPA-Earth... the differences are instant.

 OPA-Earth is far less dynamic, the treble feels like it's hiding behind a pillow. The bass has less depth, the soundstage feels shorter. It's almost like it's lost a 3D effect. Hmm...

 I need to leave it in for a few hours so my ears can adjust. At the moment, it seems like it's a bit... naff...

 Less than 30 minutes in, and my heart is yearning to have the Sun back 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cor... going from a few days on the OPA-Sun, down to the OPA-Earth... the differences are instant.

 OPA-Earth is far less dynamic, the treble feels like it's hiding behind a pillow. The bass has less depth, the soundstage feels shorter. It's almost like it's lost a 3D effect. Hmm...

 I need to leave it in for a few hours so my ears can adjust. At the moment, it seems like it's a bit... naff...

 Less than 30 minutes in, and my heart is yearning to have the Sun back 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl._

 

Phewl, are you using it on DAC section or amp section ?!

 As I just ordered mines, I was wordering which one to go for DAC and AMP sections, as I'll only have 2 from both, it won't be possible to make one full SUN or Full Earth Zero DaC


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I doing it this way for now Diego, Earth in the DAC, 2 SUN in the H/Amp. Sounds good so far, but can't comment until everything has burned in. Heat is an issue with an all HDAM Zero. Go back a few pages for some novel solutions. I may be going overboard with the heat issue, it may be fine but I'd rather er on the side of caution.

 Phewl, the modules need time to settle, anything under 75 hours will be off with regards to SQ. I don't know how much time you have on either type so if your over that mark than forgive the intrusion 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.

 PS The current Earth module is exactly the same to the HDAM Lawrence sells. So mine is burned in already, just the new SUN modules need more time. I have about 45 hours on those and counting... I'd suggest to those running 3 HDAMs to shut down at night after an 8 hour session of burn in or listening...for some reason the cycling of power/heat up and shut down is beneficial...don't ask...Pench or I can't find a reason for it.


----------



## AudioPhewl

I'm using the discrete modules in the DAC section. I'm ashamed to admit that I've already gone back to the OPA-Sun - the difference is huge. Detail junkies need look no further than OPA-Sun. Earth sounds more like OAP-Earth after a few days with the Sun - it's far less sharp, resolving, musical, instantly-attractive or enjoyable to my ears.

 Must go back to the Earth for another listen... I really must... it's only fair... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Phewl, the modules need time to settle, anything under 75 hours will be off with regards to SQ. I don't know how much time you have on either type so if your over that mark than forgive the intrusion 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

My Sun module will be over that by now. Earth will be around 2 hours or so.

 I don't want to go back to the Earth! Don't make me go back for several decades of hours! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 ~Phewl.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Sun module will be over that by now. Earth will be around 2 hours or so.

 I don't want to go back to the Earth! Don't make me go back for several decades of hours! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 ~Phewl._

 

Please go back Phewl! It would be very healthy for our knowledge! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 Diego


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I doing it this way for now Diego, Earth in the DAC, 2 SUN in the H/Amp. Sounds good so far, but can't comment until everything has burned in. Heat is an issue with an all HDAM Zero. Go back a few pages for some novel solutions. I may be going overboard with the heat issue, it may be fine but I'd rather er on the side of caution.

 Phewl, the modules need time to settle, anything under 75 hours will be off with regards to SQ. I don't know how much time you have on either type so if your over that mark than forgive the intrusion 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.

 PS The current Earth module is exactly the same to the HDAM Lawrence sells. So mine is burned in already, just the new SUN modules need more time. I have about 45 hours on those and counting... I'd suggest to those running 3 HDAMs to shut down at night after an 8 hour session of burn in or listening...for some reason the cycling of power/heat up and shut down is beneficial...don't ask...Pench or I can't find a reason for it._

 


 Will you ever try 3 SUNs ??? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Diego


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Will you ever try 3 SUNs ??? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Diego_

 

Can't ...of the 5 HDAMs I have, 2 are SUN...3 are Earth...ce la vie 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Please go back Phewl! It would be very healthy for our knowledge! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 Diego_

 

Hey Diego!

 Missed seeing you post up in here!

 Just like PP, I have a matured HDAM (earth) from Lawrence. When PP says they need 75 hours, that is what happened to both of us while maturing them. The difference between a new one and a mature one is large. Not at all like the Opamps in this respect.

 I would say the "earth" is a neutral HDAM, full of dynamics and nuances. It is missing nothing and doesn't "colorize" the signal. This makes it very nice for the DAC section.

 I've got one "sun" here that I have to solder on before I can "mature" it, so that will get done this weekend. The other earth & sun are on their way here, so they are going to take longer.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Diego!


 Missed seeing you post up in here!

 Just like PP, I have a matured HDAM (earth) from Lawrence. When PP says they need 75 hours, that is what happened to both of us while maturing them. The difference between a new one and a mature one is large. Not at all like the Opamps in this respect.

 I would say the "earth" is a neutral HDAM, full of dynamics and nuances. It is missing nothing and doesn't "colorize" the signal. This makes it very nice for the DAC section.

 I've got one "sun" here that I have to solder on before I can "mature" it, so that will get done this weekend. The other earth & sun are on their way here, so they are going to take longer. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It has been awhile isn't it ? I missed you guys too..... it's just because ever since I first took a look at this thread I haven't stop spending money.... everytime I came back, more money.... LoL

 First Zero... then 650 /627/lm1364 and now HDAMs

 I also got one Yulong AMP4780 class T amplifier and built some Enclosures for my JBL speakers that were laying around....

 I see, you think the huge difference was more like non matured Earth..... Ok I won't have a problem with this combo eart/sun DAC/AMP..... If you guys says it rocks, I need no more.....
 I was really pleased when I did an A-B between lm4562 and opa627 this week and could distinguish differences.... I guess my ears are getting better after all... It will be nice when I make A-B between earth / 627.... but it will take awhile... maybe on october in case Kingwa hasn't got any of those before 15 of setember...


----------



## Sganzerla

PP and Penchum, are you sure Earth is the same HDAM Lawrence is selling?

 I asked this 2 days ago and he said NO (something like the number of transistors and FETs on HDAM is different, it has more).


----------



## sennsay

Mornin' fellow Zero owners, sounds like HDAMs Are Us this morning! Ah, well, can't contribute much on that one yet. I can tell you I'm loving my Zero even while it is fresh and new! What a really delightful little unit it is, I haven't bothered critiquing it, just popped various cans on after a day's warm up and enjoyed the music. You know, if I wasn't aware of what it can be transformed into, I would be very happy just as it is! 
 This morning I have it hooked up to the iBook to try out the USB to Toslink adapter snow46_8 sent with the Zero. I'll say this for him, everything one could need to use the unit was supplied. For anyone interested, there is a pic here of the adapter and it works perfectly.
 The scratchy electronic hiss that was on the headphone amp on first switch-on has gone completely and I haven't attempted to send the speaker cones into the wall at the other end of the house today! Phew!
 I am already hearing details on CDs that I wasn't aware of before, inflections in rhythmic intensity. Meanwhile in the other headamp, the OPA627AUs are cooking very nicely, they've had 50 hours now and the amount of detail coming through them is just thrilling! I know, probably old hat now that HDAM is here, but for those who didn't want to go the HDAM route, the 627s are brilliant. I have been playing a Cd of a group of Tuvan throat singers called, Shu De, and the sheer amount of detail coming from a group of singers and simple instruments is stunning; the sound of horse hair bows on horse gut strings, hands and sticks on horse skin drums and the 3D soundstage, the extraordinary voices. The Tuvans love their horses in life and death! 
 It's tempting to pop the 627s into the Zero now ......... but I shan't .. phew, I really want to hear the Zero well run in and stock to get a sense of perspective with the other mods to come. Plus, the new Senn 555s sound really good with the Zero! 
 Already, after 14 hours of running, Zero is already sounding much warmer and yes, tube-y. Love it, warmer and weightier than my other kit amp, if not as detailed and fast yet. 
 Bless your little cotton socks, Penchum, for getting this thread going and bringing Zero to us in this way. 
 Really must do something about the disco blue lights on the front panel sometime! Wow!
Attachment 7639


----------



## gavszero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looks like there will be another OPA to burn the ZERO DAC. This time it will be the Class A single ended output - OPA Moon. Really can't wait to have the OPA for try. It will be very soon, hopefully audio-gd is not too busy with the orders.
 Imagine having a class A output (Single ended !!!)_

 

Hi ccschua,

 Yeah Kingwa informed me to get back to him in October when the OPA-Moon will be in production ..

 Cheers,
 Gavin ...


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Please go back Phewl! It would be very healthy for our knowledge! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 Diego_

 

I withdraw my previous comments. It seems a "cold" HDAM sounds far worse - to my ears, at least - than a "hot" one.

 Earth has been running for a couple of hours now. It no longer sounds so horrible. Will leave it in for a while now, so I can get used to the sound signature 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PP and Penchum, are you sure Earth is the same HDAM Lawrence is selling?

 I asked this 2 days ago and he said NO (something like the number of transistors and FETs on HDAM is different, it has more)._

 

I suppose it could be, but the one I have, has an audio-gd sticker on it, and their web site said the "earth" is the new name for the one they had been selling elsewhere for a long time. There was only the one model, so if they updated the original one and then named it "earth", they didn't make mention of it.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I suppose it could be, but the one I have, has an audio-gd sticker on it, and their web site said the "earth" is the new name for the one they had been selling elsewhere for a long time. There was only the one model, so if they updated the original one and then named it "earth", they didn't make mention of it._

 

Update: Here is the information that is on their website:

 OPA – Earth : Our first generation discrete opamp has been sold throughout the world by other marketing means. This discrete opamp utilizes integrated cascode circuit with the schematic based on single channel circuit which is an improvement based on new improved parameters and technology. The sound characteristics is neutral and natural. THD Less than 0.0005%(1KHz), Operating voltage：±9 TO ±25V，Open loop gain：35DB，Operating current：Approx. 28MA（Single Output），Approx. 56MA（Dual Output）。

 Here is a link to it: audio-gd


----------



## dacavalcante

Great news guys, Kingwa just informed me that the last stock was for me, so I'll get my two combos in a few days... it usually takes 15-21 days to Brazil..... well... most of them I'll be out on a trip, so no problem, I'll pratically not wait for it....


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PP and Penchum, are you sure Earth is the same HDAM Lawrence is selling?

 I asked this 2 days ago and he said NO (something like the number of transistors and FETs on HDAM is different, it has more)._

 

The SQ of each is pretty much identical...dead nuts neutral.

 Peete.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

I just received my Zero and I got the wrong plug for it. It seems like its a 250v instead of the 110v plug. Now I need to see if there is anyway he can send me one. SO SO sad...


----------



## fugimax

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just received my Zero and I got the wrong plug for it. It seems like its a 250v instead of the 110v plug. Now I need to see if there is anyway he can send me one. SO SO sad..._

 

Ouch. That's gotta be painful.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Yea fugimax it is very painful.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just received my Zero and I got the wrong plug for it. It seems like its a 250v instead of the 110v plug. Now I need to see if there is anyway he can send me one. SO SO sad..._

 

Yeah, I'm with you there, same happened to me but the other way, I got an American power cord. I put it aside and just grabbed a NZ standard one that was not being used on a PC. Wouldn't it be easier - and a lot less painful - if you just went to a store and bought the correct power cord? 
 Just a thought, mate.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Oh Yea I did the same thing as you. I found a old monitor plug that I am not using right now. So I got the Zero working and I am just testing it as the default Head-fi deal. Tomorrow I will put in a Sun or Earth in there. Still will try to get that power cord from Lawrence because I am going to need that power cable soon.


----------



## fugimax

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh Yea I did the same thing as you. I found a old monitor plug that I am not using right now. So I got the Zero working and I am just testing it as the default Head-fi deal. Tomorrow I will put in a Sun or Earth in there. Still will try to get that power cord from Lawrence because I am going to need that power cable soon._

 

FYI, those cables run about $1..


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Where at?


----------



## fugimax

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where at?_

 

Just about anywhere..
For only $1.04 each when QTY 50+ purchased - Power Cord w/ 3 conductor PC power connector socket (C13/5-15P) - 3ft (Black) | External Power Cord & Power Cable


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Yea but shipping will be 5 dollars. I rather keep for 6+ dollars for something like a mod for this thing. By the way Led Zeppelin - Stairway to heaven from the How the West was Won Album. I can hear people in the crow yelling random stuff.


----------



## ccschua

Oh my,

 audio-gd teach me a lesson on grounding.

 A lot of time, diyer couldn't get gound sounds due to improper grounding.

 I have attached the OPA earth wire to one of the screw at the headphone board, that is a big no no. The ground circuit will go a long way to return to the ground. Even without earth connection will better than connecting earth to the casing earth. (hope not confused)

 And dont use the casing earth as ground. it is either the ground point near the OPA (the best, so that the ground loop is shortest). Now where can I find this ground (not earth) around the OPA. Do u think the RCA ground is a good choice?


----------



## ccschua

Power cord is a big subject in terms of sound quality. 2 power cord is very very important in HIFI. the amplifier power cord and the dac/cdp power cord.

 This is because EMI/RFI can get into the source (amp and DAC) and gets amplified, limits the bandwidth, resulting in noise and congestion.

 if u use tube amplifier, the effect is even greater. I have just changed my power cord to Single crystal copper (OCC) on my tube amplifier and the effect is tremendous.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Whats a good power supply that you recommend. Im on a budget, so can you still recommend one to me?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Power cord is a big subject in terms of sound quality. 2 power cord is very very important in HIFI. the amplifier power cord and the dac/cdp power cord.

 This is because EMI/RFI can get into the source (amp and DAC) and gets amplified, limits the bandwidth, resulting in noise and congestion.

 if u use tube amplifier, the effect is even greater. I have just changed my power cord to Single crystal copper (OCC) on my tube amplifier and the effect is tremendous._

 

I have to agree CC. I did just that, today. The effect is stunning. I didn't think it was possible to get this much from a mains cable...I like it when I'm proven wrong with regards to assumption 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Whats a good power supply that you recommend. Im on a budget, so can you still recommend one to me?_

 

Name the budget.

 Peete.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yea but shipping will be 5 dollars. I rather keep for 6+ dollars for something like a mod for this thing. By the way Led Zeppelin - Stairway to heaven from the How the West was Won Album. I can hear people in the crow yelling random stuff._

 

Well now, how handy with a soldering iron are you? You _could_ make your own ..... I did for my kit head amp to good effect, very clean supply. 
 If you fancy, go have a looksee at The TNT - TTS DIY mains cable
 a browse around the site is quite interesting and they have a number of mains cable projects on hand. It's not that difficult, just a little patience is required and watch how you do the final wiring into the wall plug. Other friends of mine have also made their own from TNT and are very happy with the results. Plenty of cable is available at Parts Connexion. What do you think?


----------



## fugimax

Seems like a power conditioner could go a long way as well, then. (In addition to a new cable.)


----------



## gavszero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Power cord is a big subject in terms of sound quality. 2 power cord is very very important in HIFI. the amplifier power cord and the dac/cdp power cord.

 This is because EMI/RFI can get into the source (amp and DAC) and gets amplified, limits the bandwidth, resulting in noise and congestion.

 if u use tube amplifier, the effect is even greater. I have just changed my power cord to Single crystal copper (OCC) on my tube amplifier and the effect is tremendous._

 

What about the solid copper mains wire several meters long in the roof and walls to the wall power point from the fuse panel , how does the last meter of mains cable make so much difference. Do these cables act as a filter ? I have a few florescent light's and a fridge that introduces pops occationally .

 Gavin ...


----------



## LeBuLLeT

my budget would be around 20 to 30 dollars. Would it just be best for a DIY? Also does anyone know if a Razer AC-1 soundcard Optical out. Also how do i know Asio4all is working with Foobar? Thanks


----------



## LeBuLLeT

WOw those TNT cables look nice. How much would it cost to make one of those cable and also what is the price? I Can solder so I think I might be able to make it. My first project is to make a Starving Student hybrid amp. Is that amp better than the Zero amp? IF it isn't no point in making it.


----------



## BigTony

Funnily enough I've been considering using a solar cell on the roof of my house hooked upto a rechargable battery to drive my SB3, DAC etc. Taking your power off the mains will always result in all sorts of noise in the signal, which is why so much of the electronics in quality gear is to remove such noise and artifacts.

 Having a decent powerlead is a major plus, but these can be had for 40 euros for most applications. Of course you can spend as much as you like, but 99% of the problem can be removed with a simple quality cable.

 BT


----------



## decayed.cell

What material are you guys using to insulate the HDAMs from interference?


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gavszero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What about the solid copper mains wire several meters long in the roof and walls to the wall power point from the fuse panel , how does the last meter of mains cable make so much difference. Do these cables act as a filter ? I have a few florescent light's and a fridge that introduces pops occationally .

 Gavin ..._

 

Hi Gavin,

 How does that last 1.5m of power cable make a difference is amazing, and it is true. 

 AC mains cable is a static filter circuit. Mine OCC come with ferrite core (basically an inductance ). The power cord introduce RLC characteristics to the circuit and change the behavior of the sound. Why is it so.

 The power cable and amplifier, speaker cable, speaker all form a loop for the current to return to the mains socket. Any changes along this loop alters the behavior. Now the noise (RFI / EMI) can get into the AC mains cable by interference. these little monsters is prevented from entering by the use of shielding, and ferrite.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Sorry for a noob question. Just that I have been searching for a spot to put the ground for the OPA-Sun where is the best spot?>


----------



## gavszero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Gavin,

 How does that last 1.5m of power cable make a difference is amazing, and it is true. 

 AC mains cable is a static filter circuit. Mine OCC come with ferrite core (basically an inductance ). The power cord introduce RLC characteristics to the circuit and change the behavior of the sound. Why is it so.

 The power cable and amplifier, speaker cable, speaker all form a loop for the current to return to the mains socket. Any changes along this loop alters the behavior. Now the noise (RFI / EMI) can get into the AC mains cable by interference. these little monsters is prevented from entering by the use of shielding, and ferrite._

 

Sounds interesting , I was thinking of running my stereo of a pure Sine Wave inverter on Battery if it will help isolate from the noisy house mains I have here . Problem is I have quite a number of components , Multi channel Amp , Sub woofer with internal amp , 2 DVD Players , Bass Management unit for SACD /DVD Audio , Turn Table & External MM Preamp, TV , Digital TV STU , Pay TV Box ,CD Player , 2 Channel Preamp , Power Amp , Equilizer , 2 Computers and ofcourse the Zero DAC ... Every Component are connected together , including the computers for Video and Audio .. 

 So in my Small 3 meter square bedroom I have quite a few wires to change .. I even have a dedicated power point from the fuse box but doesn't solve the mains noise I experience ...

 Could you post me some links for me to look into with the power cords , I'm in Australia ..

 Cheers,
 Gavin ...


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Yea I don't have those Opas at my disposal as I have only been using my Zero for only a few hours after I got home from work. Tomorrow I shall try the Earth but yea the details in the Sun are nice.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

hey so no one knows where I should put the ground at for the Sun? Please someone help me!


----------



## gavszero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey so no one knows where I should put the ground at for the Sun? Please someone help me!_

 

Hi LeBuLLeT

 I don't have my ground connected on either the Earth or Sun when I have them in my Zero . If you don't get a hum then just leave it not connected . Make sure it can't short on anything else though ..

 Gavin ...


----------



## LeBuLLeT

I see gavszero, but sometimes I do hear a low hum or a high hum just different at times. Right now its not grounded and it is sounding pretty good but I wanted to be sure that it doesn't affect sound quality. Right now its perfectly clear though. Thanks.


----------



## gavszero

I guess thats what makes the Zero such a great unit , if you don't like the sound of a particular opamp , you can easily change them to your likely ..

 As for burn in the IC opamps don't have any discrete capacitor's in them to form. I found my Hdams sounded less harsh then when first slotted them in after I got them .

 I use 75 ohm quad shield TV arial coaxial cable with great results for digital. Actually I've tried several cables including the cheap RCA cables you get with a new player with no ill results . I haven't tried a string with salt water on it though .. LOL ..

 Gavin ...


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gavszero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You're Not A*** Are you ? Not that your going to say because when the conversation goes to other DAC's other then the Zero I get suspicious ..._

 

Also recommends the LT1028


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Power cord is a big subject in terms of sound quality. 2 power cord is very very important in HIFI. the amplifier power cord and the dac/cdp power cord.

 This is because EMI/RFI can get into the source (amp and DAC) and gets amplified, limits the bandwidth, resulting in noise and congestion.

 if u use tube amplifier, the effect is even greater. I have just changed my power cord to Single crystal copper (OCC) on my tube amplifier and the effect is tremendous._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have to agree CC. I did just that, today. The effect is stunning. I didn't think it was possible to get this much from a mains cable...I like it when I'm proven wrong with regards to assumption 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Peete._

 

I remember once of asking PP, I guess, What was the big deal on upgrading power cord..... I really don't remember the answer right now.... but here goes my though.....
 It seems resoanable that less interference is better for the SQ, ok... but... If we do upgrade our equipment power cord what about our house cable route until the street power source ? It seems just silly to isolate only a small part of the way from interference.... because we have freezer, TVs, microware and other stuff sometimes even on the same cable route on the house.....

 My question is: besides just upgrading power cables, wouldn't it be very nice to put some kind of energy filter before it ? Like the guys using battery to power their systems do..... ?

 Hey, no offense, I'm just making a little exercice on my brain... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Diego


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I remember once of asking PP, I guess, What was the big deal on upgrading power cord..... I really don't remember the answer right now.... but here goes my though.....
 It seems resoanable that less interference is better for the SQ, ok... but... If we do upgrade our equipment power cord what about our house cable route until the street power source ? It seems just silly to isolate only a small part of the way from interference.... because we have freezer, TVs, microware and other stuff sometimes even on the same cable route on the house.....

 My question is: besides just upgrading power cables, wouldn't it be very nice to put some kind of energy filter before it ? Like the guys using battery to power their systems do..... ?

 Hey, no offense, I'm just making a little exercice on my brain... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Diego_

 

Isolate the cable from those household electrical is great idea. Some have run their wire direct from distribution box to the HIFI wiuth good results. By google u can get testimonial on that.

 A cheap and inexpensive way of getting good improvement is to follow Penchuum, get that Volex 17604. Read penchuum signature.

 When I say power cord is a static filter, a lot of freshmen laugh at that idea. Power cord does make up for the missing link in HIFI. It is as important as speaker cable.


----------



## shaddix

._.; I've read the last 30 pages of this and I still don't understand What is going on. If I just order this head-fi deal from this lawrence guy it will be okay? I have some HD-595s and a computer and I need a birthday present @_@;

 Apologize in advance for nubbing it up :3


----------



## Hales

On Power Cables.

 I am a fan of Dell and Sun Microsystems server power cables. They are free (to me), have 12 or 14 gauge wire, and have very high quality connectors. I am also a fan of true hospital grade power cords since they have higher standards for their connectors.

 If you want to take things a step further, replace your receptacle in the wall with a $15 Hubbell Hosptial Grade model from Lowes or Home Depot. You will get a much more secure plug with a lot more metal to metal contact. Just make sure you know what the hell you are doing before you attempt this or find someone that does.

 The goal of the power cables is to have a secure connection. If you can wiggle the cable at the wall or at the back of the Zero, then you have room for improvement.

 With the Zero RF Filters are a must. You can put them in the power cable right next to the Zero's chassis, but I preferred to have 2 of them inside the chassis on the AC mains and the ribbon going to the front panel.

 What else? 

 Get those damn dimmer switches off of the same circuit that your Zero is on. Do you have a humming transformer? Well you probably have a dimmer on a lamp somewhere. It might even be in another room. It might even be your overhead lighting. A quick check would be to turn off the circuit breaker and look for outlets or lights that no longer work.

 If you have desktop computer, put an RF filter on the cord. The switching power supplies in some desktops dump a ton of RF back into the mains AC. Filter it out. Remember, even computers in other rooms can affect the quality of the power in yours.

 Speaking of RF. Move your wireless router and phone away from the Zero - especially when you start hacking up the case to vent it. That case is also an RF shield.


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I remember once of asking PP, I guess, What was the big deal on upgrading power cord..... I really don't remember the answer right now.... but here goes my though.....
 It seems resoanable that less interference is better for the SQ, ok... but... If we do upgrade our equipment power cord what about our house cable route until the street power source ? It seems just silly to isolate only a small part of the way from interference.... because we have freezer, TVs, microware and other stuff sometimes even on the same cable route on the house.....

 My question is: besides just upgrading power cables, wouldn't it be very nice to put some kind of energy filter before it ? Like the guys using battery to power their systems do..... ?

 Hey, no offense, I'm just making a little exercice on my brain... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Diego_

 


 Wrong. Power cords, Ferrite beads, AC filters do affect the sound performance in the sense that they can reduce interference. Also the transformer and the power supply circuit are very important.

 For instance, I always use Shaffner filters like this one when I build an amplifier (your socket might be different, but I hope you get my point...)

 The Zero comes without anything like that and the original power cord is pure cxxp.

rswww.com |* FN 9222B-6/06, Schaffner, Compact IEC 950 inlet filter,6A 0.78mH, 455-8884


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


 Anyhow, myself, I've found the "Earth" to be ruthless in exposing detail; not very refined. I like detail, but never at the expense of refinement.

 To my ears instead the LT1360 in my DAC sounds both ulta-clear, and refined. Also the LT1028, but with more bass which I didn't necessarily like with my speakers. 
 

LT1028 can't be used with the Zero. Even if it seems to sound good, it will soon get very hot and make a strong background noise. 

 I've tried a couple of them on adapter (as they are singles). LT1028 is not even stable at unity gain...


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shaddix* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_._.; I've read the last 30 pages of this and I still don't understand What is going on. If I just order this head-fi deal from this lawrence guy it will be okay? I have some HD-595s and a computer and I need a birthday present @_@;

 Apologize in advance for nubbing it up :3_

 

That's ok. We've had an intruder stirring up the crowd. Plus, many DIY upgrades are being discussed at the same time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The HeadFi deal Zero sounds great with Senns. If your computer soundcard has either optical or coaxial digital output, you are set! Happy Birthday, by the way!!


----------



## tommy_uk77

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's ok. We've had an intruder stirring up the crowd. Plus, many DIY upgrades are being discussed at the same time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The HeadFi deal Zero sounds great with Senns. If your computer soundcard has either optical or coaxial digital output, you are set! Happy Birthday, by the way!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

u mean zero sound great fro senns only?how about akg and denon?


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Isolate the cable from those household electrical is great idea. Some have run their wire direct from distribution box to the HIFI wiuth good results. By google u can get testimonial on that.

 A cheap and inexpensive way of getting good improvement is to follow Penchuum, get that Volex 17604. Read penchuum signature.

 When I say power cord is a static filter, a lot of freshmen laugh at that idea. Power cord does make up for the missing link in HIFI. It is as important as speaker cable._

 

Nice Cord you got there.... Yes, this my original thnking.... but well... I live in an apartment, so I'll never be able to get a direct wire direct to the street distribution box... What I'll do is check if my badroom is separated form the rest of the house, with it owns wire.... I'll Aslo try to search for a RF filter and a nice power cord, but this kind of thing is just too difficult to find in Brazil, we have a very poor market on quality stuff, but tons of cheap one...

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hales* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On Power Cables.

 I am a fan of Dell and Sun Microsystems server power cables. They are free (to me), have 12 or 14 gauge wire, and have very high quality connectors. I am also a fan of true hospital grade power cords since they have higher standards for their connectors.

 If you want to take things a step further, replace your receptacle in the wall with a $15 Hubbell Hosptial Grade model from Lowes or Home Depot. You will get a much more secure plug with a lot more metal to metal contact. Just make sure you know what the hell you are doing before you attempt this or find someone that does.

 The goal of the power cables is to have a secure connection. If you can wiggle the cable at the wall or at the back of the Zero, then you have room for improvement.

 With the Zero RF Filters are a must. You can put them in the power cable right next to the Zero's chassis, but I preferred to have 2 of them inside the chassis on the AC mains and the ribbon going to the front panel.

 What else? 

 Get those damn dimmer switches off of the same circuit that your Zero is on. Do you have a humming transformer? Well you probably have a dimmer on a lamp somewhere. It might even be in another room. It might even be your overhead lighting. A quick check would be to turn off the circuit breaker and look for outlets or lights that no longer work.

 If you have desktop computer, put an RF filter on the cord. The switching power supplies in some desktops dump a ton of RF back into the mains AC. 
 Filter it out. Remember, even computers in other rooms can affect the quality of the power in yours.

 Speaking of RF. Move your wireless router and phone away from the Zero - especially when you start hacking up the case to vent it. That case is also an RF shield._

 

- Well, so I'm bad shape here..... I'll search for this hospital things, but it's unlikely I'll try that...... 

 - Here in Brazil it's really hard to find dimmers on lamp.... we don't have this costume to use it here..... so no dimmers at least....

 - And yes, my zero is even pluged on the same computer outlet, but I use a pretty decent power suply for the pc and haven't heard any humming yet... But I know it's not a good ideia....

 - Well there's a wireless router wall to wall with my zero...... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - I don't know if I'm luckly, but no humming at all has happened, still it must be degrading zero's performance in some way....

 - I can't change everything from place because I'm a student living on a rented house, sharing it with 2 other guys that study with me.... so it's pretty difficult to do too much modifications besides RF filter an new power cord...


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wrong. Power cords, Ferrite beads, AC filters do affect the sound performance in the sense that they can reduce interference. Also the transformer and the power supply circuit are very important.

 For instance, I always use Shaffner filters like this one when I build an amplifier (your socket might be different, but I hope you get my point...)

 The Zero comes without anything like that and the original power cord is pure cxxp.

rswww.com |* FN 9222B-6/06, Schaffner, Compact IEC 950 inlet filter,6A 0.78mH, 455-8884_

 

Nice link, I'll look for something similar to this one here in Brazil...


 I guess I'll have to have more money to spend and some work to do testing my room power wire route....

 Diego


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tommy_uk77* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_u mean zero sound great fro senns only?how about akg and denon?_

 

No. I only meant "The HeadFi deal Zero sounds great with Senns." Shaddix, the member I was replying too, has Senn HD-595s.


----------



## falke401

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shaddix* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_._.; I've read the last 30 pages of this and I still don't understand What is going on. If I just order this head-fi deal from this lawrence guy it will be okay? I have some HD-595s and a computer and I need a birthday present @_@;

 Apologize in advance for nubbing it up :3_

 

Let me know if Lawrence gets with you. I ordered the head fi deal from him 8 days ago and have not heard a thing from him. I have sent 2 emails since.. Nothing. People rant and rave about him, but if you are running an online business, this is no way to treat your customer. I dont care how busy you are. You hire more people or do whatever it takes.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Diego......think of the noise filtered mains cable as a stop sign for polluted AC ...it really is nothing more than that. 

 Peete.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *falke401* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Let me know if Lawrence gets with you. I ordered the head fi deal from him 8 days ago and have not heard a thing from him. I have sent 2 emails since.. Nothing. People rant and rave about him, but if you are running an online business, this is no way to treat your customer. I dont care how busy you are. You hire more people or do whatever it takes.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I usually received his replies on minutes..... maybe he's just not ready to ship your zero yet and avoiding you..... unless he decided to go out of the business que dissapier with other peoples money....
 Don't worry.... mine zero took 2 weeks or so to be shipped....


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *falke401* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Let me know if Lawrence gets with you. I ordered the head fi deal from him 8 days ago and have not heard a thing from him. I have sent 2 emails since.. Nothing. People rant and rave about him, but if you are running an online business, this is no way to treat your customer. I dont care how busy you are. You hire more people or do whatever it takes.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Patience really is a virtue...it's not unusual for LC to email back until he has shipped the unit and has a tracking number for you. That's just the way he is. He seems to mail everything only on Saturdays...so be patient 

 Peete.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Diego......think of the noise filtered mains cable as a stop sign for polluted AC ...it really is nothing more than that. 

 Peete._

 

Yeah it was my bad, because I was thinking you guys were talking only about new cables without any filter or something..... this is why it wasn't going on my mind. How just a cable would change things.... ? But filter, well this is a lot differente thing..... anyway..... is there really a big change in SQ just for avoiding this "pollution" ?


----------



## falke401

All he has to do is tell me how long it will be before he ships.... That's all I want. 

 I dont mean to sound like an ass or anything. I guess Im used to buying from places like newegg and I have the product in like 2-3 days. The wait continues


----------



## shaddix

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's ok. We've had an intruder stirring up the crowd. Plus, many DIY upgrades are being discussed at the same time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The HeadFi deal Zero sounds great with Senns. If your computer soundcard has either optical or coaxial digital output, you are set! Happy Birthday, by the way!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Awesome thank you for the reply Penchum. Everyone seems to think you know what you're doing from what I've read so 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah it was my bad, because I was thinking you guys were talking only about new cables without any filter or something..... this is why it wasn't going on my mind. How just a cable would change things.... ? But filter, well this is a lot differente thing..... anyway..... is there really a big change in SQ just for avoiding this "pollution" ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It depends on how "polluted" is your power line.. and how close you are on any source of interefences. In that case, yes, there is...

 Good quality IEC PC power cables are an excellent replacement for the standard zero power cable. Inserting Ferrite Beads on them (if they're not already there), may also help a lot. Don't waste your money for nothing. $20 for a good cable is enough...

 Also check Lucio's article here...

http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/filter.html

 Who is Lucio? He brought the Class T to the masses by "discovering" the T-Amp...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *falke401* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All he has to do is tell me how long it will be before he ships.... That's all I want. 

 I dont mean to sound like an ass or anything. I guess Im used to buying from places like newegg and I have the product in like 2-3 days. The wait continues 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 If he doesn't know that info, what is the point of stopping assembly to take time out to say that via email ? I'm sorry if that sounds abrupt. Your not being an ass, it's just unrealistic to expect "newegg" type speed in filling orders.

 In other words, for better or worse,

 It's a small operation and he is going balls out trying to fill the avalanche of orders. LC is pragmatic...when he has info to send you he sends it. Just relax dude, this isn't newegg where they have millions of dollars of inventory in a huge warehouse ready to ship at a moments notice.

 Peete.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It depends on how "polluted" is your power line.. and how close you are on any source of interefences. In that case, yes, there is...

 Good quality IEC PC power cables are an excellent replacement for the standard zero power cable. Inserting Ferrite Beads on them (if they're not already there), may also help a lot. Don't waste your money for nothing. $20 for a good cable is enough...

 Also check Lucio's article here...

Anti-RFI filters for the mains

 Who is Lucio? He brought the Class T to the masses by "discovering" the T-Amp..._

 


 Very interesting, thank you!
 In fact this guys is the reason for me to have bought Yulong class T amplifier for my speakers..... =]
 I neves though before reading him, that it was ever possible to have such nice sound amplifier for such a low money... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll for sure buy one of these filtred IEC for Zero and Yulong.....

 ****
 But, after that doing that, do I still need a nice power cord ? Or a power cord upgrade will be much less required ?

 *********


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Ok Mods the toady is croaking once again....Andrea why don't you use your time wisely by fixing your Zero instead of trolling this thread all the time ?

 You could do a direct comparison between your current fav DAC and the Zero....that would be a positive contribution instead of the usual crap your known for.

 How about it....stop wasting everyone's time and do something good for a change .....can you contribute and remain objective, or is that an impossible task for you ?

 I'm no fan of censorship...so I'd like to see it's use minimized if at all possible, but you've proven time and time again that your contributions are not meant to help, only hinder,slander and mislead...in that context it's the only criteria for removal of your posts IMO....Can you change your spots ? I'm giving you yet another chance here...it's up to you, what you do with that chance...

 I think I'm being more than reasonable here, in light of your constant spamming...so how about it ?



 Peete.


----------



## Emanuel

This is very interesting too: Mains Cables and Powerline conditioning for beginners

 In the article is explained how to build a perfect enviroment to supply clean filtered current to an hi-fi setting and I think is definitely the THING that we all are searching. I'm in particular interested in the Rfi filtering box, but I don't undestand a lot of electronics.
 I'm just wondering if it exists commercially maybe, like inserted in the used wall plug or just after it, in this way all the connected instruments will be blessed by the cleaning (only logically).

 Thanks for any comments about the topic!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well... thanks for your opinion.

 I think I'm reasonable as well, in thinking that a few problems of misinformation and uninformed subejectiveness here required fixing. That said, if right now I had the time (I want a lot of it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) I would fix my Zero. Nevertheless, I already have a clear idea of how well (or how bad) it is made, and a decently clear memory of how it sounded (this is something I don't rely upon much, anyway).


 Why assume I'm "trolling" ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

Simply because you are, that's your reason for being here...no one can remember a sound signature much past 2 weeks ...so I'm calling BS on your dodge.....you were given a chance...this is the same old tired result....

 How one can remember a units sound if one has never heard it to begin with is a pretty amazing feat in itself but combine that with super human powers of exact recall past what anyone would consider a reasonable time period...well you've hung yourself (once again) with a rope of your own making. You must like twisting in the wind......you've painted yourself into a corner from which no explanation of yours no matter how cleverly fashioned can exonerate your current reputation....in other words you've been outsmarted from all angles....tuck the tail and slink away....it's the only option left to you.


 Peete.


----------



## fugimax

Quote:


 Anti-RFI filters for the mains 
 

So if I were to do this with the Zero, how important does the cable remain? I think this is the same question dacavalcante has.

 I can probably drive over to Fry's and pick up both the filter and a decent cable for pretty cheap, though.


----------



## Sganzerla

Has anyone experience with IeGo Power Cables with Zero DAC?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fugimax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So if I were to do this with the Zero, how important does the cable remain? I think this is the same question dacavalcante has.

 I can probably drive over to Fry's and pick up both the filter and a decent cable for pretty cheap, though._

 

Makes quite a difference. When copper is drawn there are two imprtant factors to it's ability to conduct, one being purity level and the other how well it's drawn...meaning...under a microscope are the crystals aligned and void free or are they haphazard with air gaps and foreign alloy metals present. There is also debate about solid core vs stranded. IME either are good as long as they are well made with good quality copper used. In reality if these two fundamentals are met than geometry,fancy casings and other factors are like putting a dress on a pig...if it's a pig to begin with...you still get a good looking pig in the end 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This is IMO of course and from years of DIY types, experiments with other types of metal etc...my current cables are simple 6 nines copper with great shielding and gas tight (meaning very good clamping force on the blades) plugs at either end and simple noise canceling ferrite donuts at both ends. I don't think a Zoebel network has been employed because that would be like...you guessed it...putting a dress on a pig 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 These cables need not be expensive. Mine were all under 80US each (which I couldn't build them for, for less no matter who was the supplier of the parts)

 A hi end wattagate plug is more than the cost of the entire YYW 1.6 m cable and I doubt would sound any better.....really doubt it actually....I find the worst abuser as far as milking the BS cow goes to Virtual Dynamics...what a snake oil fest that outfit is...followed closely by AudioQuest and their whole DBS bias voltage garbage.

 Peete.


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Very interesting, thank you!
 In fact this guys is the reason for me to have bought Yulong class T amplifier for my speakers..... =]
 I neves though before reading him, that it was ever possible to have such nice sound amplifier for such a low money... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll for sure buy one of these filtred IEC for Zero and Yulong.....

 ****
 But, after that doing that, do I still need a nice power cord ? Or a power cord upgrade will be much less required ?

 *********_

 

It won't do bad replacing it. They are quite cheap. As I said, no PC power cord can be the same. If you like one, buy two of them, cut the cable and see how they are inside. Good quality ofc copper and shielding can be easily recognised. You will not throw away the one you cut. You can always buy a plug and rewire it... Cheaper alternative, get one only and use the rewired one if you like it.Piece of cake IMHO...


----------



## DaMnEd

On the power "issue", I have my Zero, and my PC (etc) connected to a UPS from MGE, and I believe that provides a clean source, since the power source are actually the batteries on the unit, which are very stable and clean sources from what I understand.

 Is this correct or am I way off? 

 Can I still benefit from a good cable? (I have the default one that came with the Zero)


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Emanuel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is very interesting too: Mains Cables and Powerline conditioning for beginners

 In the article is explained how to build a perfect enviroment to supply clean filtered current to an hi-fi setting and I think is definitely the THING that we all are searching. I'm in particular interested in the Rfi filtering box, but I don't undestand a lot of electronics.
 I'm just wondering if it exists commercially maybe, like inserted in the used wall plug or just after it, in this way all the connected instruments will be blessed by the cleaning (only logically).

 Thanks for any comments about the topic!_

 

An interesting read for sure. The use of 16 gage CATV line for a line source level item such as a DAC on the US grid would not be advisable IMO because of the current voltage differences between the UK and the US. The idea translates though...the key being the shielding of the core conductor. Drop that gage down to 12 or 14 and I don't have a problem with it at all. In essence it's exactly the same as what I just talked about with the exception that the copper purity is not as good as YYW, nor would the plug ends be unless you spend stupid money on Wattagate etc...The YYW's are also gold plated, thick plating on copper billet...another advantage over low priced rivals.

 Sorry I don't mean to push what I have...I'm simply pointing out their features...how these can be sold for what hey cost and remain profitable is beyond me. 

 The link is a well worth the read, thanks Emanuel !!! TNT has been a fav of mine for tweaks for years 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Some are good, some aren't...like anything, that's usually how it is.


 Peete.


----------



## fugimax

My big concern about power is that I'll be using this at work. I'm on a pretty large floor with a open-cube layout where power is being run through cube walls, etc. Almost tempted to just grab a power-conditioner / battery, as there's no way I can isolate on a circuit or anything.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On the power "issue", I have my Zero, and my PC (etc) connected to a UPS from MGE, and I believe that provides a clean source, since the power source are actually the batteries on the unit, which are very stable and clean sources from what I understand.

 Is this correct or am I way off? 

 Can I still benefit from a good cable? (I have the default one that came with the Zero)_

 

The batteries only kick in if the line voltage drops below a certain cutoff point (monitored by the micro processor in the APC)...brown outs and black outs trigger this very fast switch to the battery. Something like a few nanoseconds delay....I think...

 99% of the time the UPS is nothing more than heavy duty multi outlet distro box, granted it has some spike and filtering protection but it's not in strict audio parameters. Computer line conditioning although beneficial doesn't require the same level of clean power that Audio gear does, rather there is nothing to test that level of quality with a computer since it either powers up or it doesn't. Computer power supplies are very noisy (dirty polluters of the AC line) and as such it's best to isolate audio gear from the computer line....as a precaution...nothing is written in stone. Lately (last 3 years or so) the computer PS has had to be of much better quality for critical components like current hungry CPU's, memory,vid cards.... so that is an added bonus to the audio nuts 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A better solution is power regeneration followed by balanced transformer coupled line conditioners. An expensive prospect as either of those run upwards of 600US + or more each and are nuts to use with the Zero. I don't even have that level of conditioning and isolation on my main rig...I can't bring myself to spend that kind of money on something like that. I do however have a very good line conditioner for just the digital and line level analog gear. My amps are plugged directly into the dedicated lines.

 It sounds awesome (the system)...and is dead quiet.....although I do have to shut down the breaker whenever a TStorm threatens...a minor inconvenience I can live with.

 I have used APC UPS's for years and have experimented with them via the Zero and MK III/MF X10 V3 stack of late...I could discern no audible benefit to either method of powering the units. The actual mains cable made the difference in my case. IME anything that protects gear and isn't an audible degradation is fine by me...if it's a benefit...well that's just icing on the cake 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm, I accept your point.


 What, however, you're inevitably missing is that I have had a common reference point - my Cambridge Audio D300SE, provided with a CS4338 converter and tweaked by me. I have compared both DACs to it, and I was more impressed with the improvement the stock SVDAC05 brought over it.


 However, after I made a simple mod on the SVDAC05, which didn't even require taking out the circuit board - removed the only decoupling caps in the signal path, and just shorted the pads since the CS4398 has low residual DC offset - the sound of the SVDAC05 has turned out simply outstanding, especially when fitted with the LT1360 opamps. I'm listening and drooling right now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 Edit- the smiley tells a wrong story - I'm listening with my Polk Audio's_

 

And the Cambridge and a completely different DAC and chip has what to do with the Zero exactly ? 

 You can blather on all you want about your gear but it has feck all to do with this thread....it's worthless techno- babble.....

 Polk Audio ? LOL...your basing your SQ assumptions with low end bookshelf speakers in a head fi forum using gear that isn't remotely related to the threads topic....draw your own conclusions folks....the town idiot has managed to hang himself twice in the same day....must be a record...can he go for a world record third self inflicted rope burn ? Stay tuned.....



 Peete.


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The batteries only kick in if the line voltage drops below a certain cutoff point (monitored by the micro processor in the APC)...brown outs and black outs trigger this very fast switch to the battery. Something like a few nanoseconds delay....I think...

 99% of the time the UPS is nothing more than heavy duty multi outlet distro box, granted it has some spike and filtering protection but it's not in strict audio parameters. Computer line conditioning although beneficial doesn't require the same level of clean power that Audio gear does, rather there is nothing to test that level of quality with a computer since it either powers up or it doesn't. Computer power supplies are very noisy (dirty polluters of the AC line) and as such it's best to isolate audio gear from the computer line....as a precaution...nothing is written in stone. Lately (last 3 years or so) the computer PS has had to be of much better quality for critical components like current hungry CPU's, memory,vid cards.... so that is an added bonus to the audio nuts 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Thank you for your reply, but it seems that you are describing only one type of UPS, off-line, there are three types, quoting from Wikipedia:

  Quote:


 Off-line : remains idle until a power failure occurs, and then switches from utility power to its own power source, almost instantaneously. 

 Line-interactive. 

 On-line : continuously powers the protected load from its energy reserves stored in a lead-acid battery or flywheel, while simultaneously replenishing the reserves from the AC power. It also provides protection against all common power problems, and for this reason it is also known as a power conditioner and a line conditioner. 
 

Mine is actually the "on-line" type 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I remember paid a lot for this Pulsar on-line model, the on-line type was the justification, I didn't trust in the off-line ones I previously had, they failed to power-up some times.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Interesting.....my mistake then....I stand corrected....I would imagine that would be costly...what are the watt/amp hours time limit during a power failure ? Must weigh a ton...my off line 750 watter (real world, it's actually a 1200 Watt unit) weighs about 30 lbs.

 Just use it for the computer tower and monitor only.



 Peete.

 PS Whoo hoo post # 900


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting.....my mistake then....I stand corrected....I would imagine that would be costly...what are the watt/amp hours time limit during a power failure ? Must weigh a ton...my off line 750 watter (real world, it's actually a 1200 Watt unit) weighs about 30 lbs.

 Just use it for the computer tower and monitor only.



 Peete.

 PS Whoo hoo post # 900 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Mine is 1500 VA / 1350 W and it weighs 24.5kg / 54lbs approx. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It can hold 180 minutes at 50% load, and 120 minutes at 70% load approx.

 Congratz on the #900 post 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 P.S - I think it may weigh a bit more because I have the maximum battery complement it supports, it has a modular design, one of these days I will put it on a scale, and maybe, just maybe, hurt myself in the process


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Yeesh that's a heavy beastie....what's the recommended service life of the cell ? I've had to replace mine already (lead acid big bugger) after a 1.5 years. I had a lightning strike back a few months ago that actually took out my drives...the APC has been not right since (I'm sure it's damaged)...it's always self testing and giving error codes but when I try a simulated black out it kicks in ok. Go figure ... There is no way I'm forking out for another one right now...too many others on the list of priorities, (looks at wife) she nods....phew got that one right for a change 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My latest tube amp weighs in a 70 lbs and that's with 2 of the 4 transformers off loaded to a separate chassis. Just about killed myself unpacking it and carrying it down the stairs......It's not moving for any reason now...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## fugimax

Samlex America
 Thoughts on something like this? (Spec sheet linked from that page)


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fugimax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Samlex America
 Thoughts on something like this? (Spec sheet linked from that page)_

 

Looks ok but I have no idea if it's transparent or not. How much is it anyway ?

 Peete.


----------



## fugimax

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looks ok but I have no idea if it's transparent or not. How much is it anyway ?

 Peete._

 

"Transparent" ?

 It's ~$60 @ Fry's. Suppose I could try it and take it back if I didn't like it ... they have a great return policy.


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeesh that's a heavy beastie....what's the recommended service life of the cell ? I've had to replace mine already (lead acid big bugger) after a 1.5 years. I had a lightning strike back a few months ago that actually took out my drives...the APC has been not right since (I'm sure it's damaged)...it's always self testing and giving error codes but when I try a simulated black out it kicks in ok. Go figure ... There is no way I'm forking out for another one right now...too many others on the list of priorities, (looks at wife) she nods....phew got that one right for a change 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My latest tube amp weighs in a 70 lbs and that's with 2 of the 4 transformers off loaded to a separate chassis. Just about killed myself unpacking it and carrying it down the stairs......It's not moving for any reason now...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Can't find the info on the battery life, but I do Know the UPS tests itself weekly and will tell me when to change any of the cells, and I can change them without any off time (HotSwap). Two years strong atm!

 I purchased the UPS because my system has 6 HDDs and about 4TB storage atm, and I do not want to lose any of them with a power issue, all my precious movies/series and FLAC albums!

 70lbs amp? Omg! What a beast, I only have the ZERO for now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I’m thinking of buying a Little Dot MKV since I’m a detail junkie and perhaps a Little Dot I+ to get me started on tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fugimax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_"Transparent" ?

 It's ~$60 @ Fry's. Suppose I could try it and take it back if I didn't like it ... they have a great return policy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

As in imparts no audible footprint on the line being conditioned.

 For 60 bucks it's worth a try at least, if it doesn't work out you can send it back ?

 Peete.


----------



## liquid steel

lawrencechanbig@msn.com is the email for lawrence, correct? Emailed him the other night and have not heard back


----------



## fugimax

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As in imparts no audible footprint on the line being conditioned.

 For 60 bucks it's worth a try at least, if it doesn't work out you can send it back ?

 Peete._

 

I have 3 Fry's Electronics within 15 minutes of me ... and they have a super-liberal return policy. So yes, I can just take it back.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can't find the info on the battery life, but I do Know the UPS tests itself weekly and will tell me when to change any of the cells, and I can change them without any off time (HotSwap). Two years strong atm!

 I purchased the UPS because my system has 6 HDDs and about 4TB storage atm, and I do not want to lose any of them with a power issue, all my precious movies/series and FLAC albums!

 70lbs amp? Omg! What a beast, I only have the ZERO for now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I’m thinking of buying a Little Dot MKV since I’m a detail junkie and perhaps a Little Dot I+ to get me started on tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




._

 

Mission critical info I'd say....well you've certainly chosen wisely and I've learned something in the process...Thanks !! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The MK V is a great match with the Zero...just ask Pench...he loves his !!!

 Yeah 70 lbs is bordering on ridiculous...maybe that's why the power transformers (which weigh in at 20 lbs ) are in there own chassis 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's a dual mono design (Ultra linear with triode switch) using 8 x EL34's, 2 x 6SN7 and 2 x 12AT7 tubes. I'm not looking forward to the power tube replacement bill..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fugimax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have 3 Fry's Electronics within 15 minutes of me ... and they have a super-liberal return policy. So yes, I can just take it back. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Cool what have you got to lose 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe you'll discover a very good tweak in the process !!!

 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I withdraw my previous comments. It seems a "cold" HDAM sounds far worse - to my ears, at least - than a "hot" one.

 Earth has been running for a couple of hours now. It no longer sounds so horrible. Will leave it in for a while now, so I can get used to the sound signature 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl._

 

I've sat here listening to the Earth module all evening - literally the last 4-5 hours, I've done little else.

 The Sun offers a wider soundstage, and makes picking details out very easy. It feels stronger, has more depth to the bass and seems to portray treble with a little more emphasis.

 It's easier to listen to. To actually _listen_ to. The Earth is more laidback, it makes you work harder to pick out individualities in music, but it rewards you with what feels a more neutral approach to reproduction.

 My money... and my ears... the Sun is an instant winner. It's more musical, the soundstage has a wider and deeper presence, and the whole thing is just more enjoyable whilst having greater "feel" to the whole shebang.

 Anyone with the pair - spend a couple of days with the Sun. You'll find it hard to go back to the Earth 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.
 (Figured at least one person ought to make a Zero DAC related post this evening... y'all have battery fetishes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







)


----------



## fugimax

Quote:


 My money... and my ears... the Sun is an instant winner. It's more musical, the soundstage has a wider and deeper presence, and the whole thing is just more enjoyable whilst having greater "feel" to the whole shebang. 
 

This is great to hear. 

 My zero will be sporting 1 EARTH / 2 SUN ... as someone (I think peete) mentioned earlier, having a neutral HDAM on the DAC with the more forward SUNs in the amp section sounds like a winning combo to me.


----------



## AudioPhewl

I'll be able - hopefully - to post my views on the Earth and Sun modules through some Stax earspeakers in a few days time.

 My 4040 rig should be here in the morning 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Right on AP...yep that's what I have in my Zero right now fugi 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Your in for an aural trip with ribbons ....Do up your chin strap first before hitting play 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah 70 lbs is bordering on ridiculous...maybe that's why the power transformers (which weigh in at 20 lbs ) are in there own chassis 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's a dual mono design (Ultra linear with triode switch) using 8 x EL34's, 2 x 6SN7 and 2 x 12AT7 tubes. I'm not looking forward to the power tube replacement bill..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Hopefully they won’t burn out all at the same time! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I sure hope you use a protection circuit, I’m not saying an UPS, but one Surge Suppressors would be a good idea! 

 I have one pretty much on every expensive equipment I have in the house, I’ve seen power outages/surges do too much damage to allow that to happened to me, the power companies here does cover your damage with insurance but who wants to have to deal with that…

 I will have a look at some decent power cables, I was looking at the Zu cables, but they seem to cost more than I’m willing to pay, way more, hey would cost me more than the Zero lol.

 I’m probably going to try to find some hospital grade stuff or something locally. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And thank you for your insight on the power cable stuff!


----------



## fugimax

Just found this in a box I had stowed away.

 Looks like it at least does some kind of conditioning.


----------



## Doorknob

Now that the OPA Sun has been ordered I'd like to know how much difference there is from the stock OPA2604 to the Sun in terms of SQ.

 Will it blow my ears or just give me enough to smile?


----------



## fugimax

Quote:


 Will it blow my ears or just give me enough to smile? 
 

From the early reviews from Peete and AP, I'd expect a considerable improvement. Are you replacing all 3 components or just the one?


----------



## Doorknob

Only the DAC section. I've already outfitted my headphone amp section with LT1364


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Doorknob* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now that the OPA Sun has been ordered I'd like to know how much difference there is from the stock OPA2604 to the Sun in terms of SQ.

 Will it blow my ears or just give me enough to smile?_

 

I think it will get your feet tapping, head nodding and enuf to laugh.


----------



## ccschua

I have received two pictures on the Ground point for connecting OPA to the DAC and the headphone. However I am no techie in this. Hope someone can point out the exact one (ground point), and how to connect to the OPA. 
 These ground point is supposed to give better sound to the OPA Sun/Earth.


----------



## ccschua

For my setup, I believe getting a clean power source for my gears are important as far as costs is concerned. AC regeneration is good but may be overkill as every AC is converted to DC in DAC.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have received two pictures on the Ground point for connecting OPA to the DAC and the headphone. However I am no techie in this. Hope someone can point out the exact one (ground point), and how to connect to the OPA. 
 These ground point is supposed to give better sound to the OPA Sun/Earth._

 

I'll have a look tomorrow afternoon CC and let you know.

 Peete.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Right on AP...yep that's what I have in my Zero right now fugi 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Your in for an aural trip with ribbons ....Do up your chin strap first before hitting play 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Morning TEAM, yeah, I'm looking forward to that experience myself! Mine were posted either yesterday or will be this coming Monday. Bit of a delay thing happening there. 
 Meanwhile, my OPA627AUs have had 62+ hours on them and while sounding very fine indeed in my kit head amp (KHA), they are just a tad too much for an already slightly neutral to lean set up. I've gone back to the original OPA2134PA, smoother and OMG is it less detailed and crisp and punchy and 3D and focused and and and ........
 The LT1364s arrived this morning, so I might just pop one of them in the kit and see if the balance is eventually better, yet with improvements.
 Zero is sounding very nice, plenty of weight in the bottom end of the amp, which is cool, more so than KHA, and I placed some thin foam layers underneath and above the transformer. Despite having the requisite hard rubber pads, it still hummed a fair bit, though there is no hum through the electronics. In saying that, there IS a little hum and noise when I use the pre-amp out into a separate power amp, like the Yamaha A900's 130W beast or even KHA. Not sure what's doing that, but it must be coming from the DAC stage, despite DC blocking caps on the inputs of the two power amps. Maybe it's an earthing thing and I will play around and see what's going on. 
 Otherwise, Zero rocks and sounds very good out of the Apple iBook and through the little adapter, if not with quite the bottom end weight of the Yam CDP's digital out stage. Great fun, have listened for hours just enjoying it throughout the last couple of days. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Would like to try it with a decent S/PDIF cable though. 
 Hope it's a good day at Creemore Springs, Peete!


----------



## gavszero

I've read some concern about internal Temperature of the Zero . My Zero has the Earth in the DAC and LT1364's in the head amp. So I decided to try my Aquarium digital temp module with a probe to check. Probe was set between the 2 PC boards over the Earth module with cover on top .This has been my findings .

 After 30 Minutes
 Room Temp - 21.4 C
 Zero internal - 41 C

 After 5 hours
 Room Temp 26.2
 Zero Internal - 44.3 C

 I don't have 3 Hdams to test which could be higher levels . Would these internal temperature's be ok for long term ?





 Gavin ...


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Doorknob* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now that the OPA Sun has been ordered I'd like to know how much difference there is from the stock OPA2604 to the Sun in terms of SQ.

 Will it blow my ears or just give me enough to smile?_

 

My best advice - expect only a small and subtle change in sound. To me, with my gear, the difference is very intense. Everything is better - bass is deeper, treble is a bit sharper, soundstage feels like the stage has had a half-dozen extra feet thrown in, and the general atmosphere feels far more open.

 YMMV. Expect a subtle difference and you'll end up happy, IMO. Go in expecting to hear the difference between a 64kbps MP3 and a FLAC file, and you'll be disappointed.

 ccschua - Undo the left-hand screw on the headphone amplifier, and turn it until it's nearly out of its thread. Put the HDAMs ground wire underneath the head of the screw, and tighten it up until it feels firm.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Trax416

Can anyone tell me where to order Zero stuff online (that ships to canada?)


----------



## AudioPhewl

Review: ZERO 24 BIT/192KHz DAC/Headphone Amp/Pre-Amp - Page 571 - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

 ETA - have put the above link into my signature. Anyone coming to this thread and wanting to find the sellers should find it easily enough now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 Please let me know if anyone feels any others should be listed.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Trax416

Took the plunge and picked up 

ZERO 24/192 DAC D A CONVERTOR , HEAD FI AMP , BRAND NEW - eBay (item 120299046283 end time Sep-06-08 14:00:00 PDT)

 (assuming it's the same item as reviewed, seems to be).

 Will be my first DAC/Headphone amp ever. 

 Any suggestions on some sub $300CDN cans to go with it?


----------



## LeBuLLeT

hd650 k701s and many more just check some reviews for your preferences and also what type of music you listen to.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 ccschua - Undo the left-hand screw on the headphone amplifier, and turn it until it's nearly out of its thread. Put the HDAMs ground wire underneath the head of the screw, and tighten it up until it feels firm.

 ~Phewl._

 

Hi AP,

 That ground is not recommended bcos the Ground and Casing earth is not the same. No doubt the ground would ultimately return to the earth, but at the point of return is very important. The Ground on OPA should be return as soon as possible near to the OPA location.

 The photo that I have shown is the recommended ground, but for simplicity, the RCA ground is a very good choice. RCA ground is not = casing earth.

 waiting for PP to show the ground pt, or I would just use RCA ground.


----------



## dario

Would be a good idea take the 3 opamp on the top cover, "drilling" the cover just to pass only the base of the extension lead?
 The only problem would be the necessity of new housing for the 3 opamp on top to get them stable....but it will resolve heat space and possible interferences problems...


----------



## ccschua

If u want to know more about power cord, check this out.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f21/po...viewed-139344/

 Check the review on Volex 17604 and Iron Lung Jelly fish.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Ground on OPA should be return as soon as possible near to the OPA location._

 

Why? It works fine without the ground connected at all...

 ~Phewl.


----------



## viscosity

me too


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *viscosity* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_me too_

 

I just got my last two yesterday, so I'm getting ready to do some testing.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi AP,

 That ground is not recommended bcos the Ground and Casing earth is not the same. No doubt the ground would ultimately return to the earth, but at the point of return is very important. The Ground on OPA should be return as soon as possible near to the OPA location.

 The photo that I have shown is the recommended ground, but for simplicity, the RCA ground is a very good choice. RCA ground is not = casing earth.

 waiting for PP to show the ground pt, or I would just use RCA ground._

 

HI CC,

 I can't look any further today for the ground points...need to get horizontal for a while (drove all morning today)....using an RCA ground electrically speaking is fine....I understand why you want a short path...that's the way to do it. You could take the nearest neg leg of a cap for instance.

 I'll take a closer, more in depth look tomorrow morning if my back spasms have gone away by then...they should be gone by Sun morning ...I hope 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Mmm... the Zero and OPA-Sun are both singing their little hearts out through my Stax rig 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.

 Cor... they're all so good... I know I should put the Earth back in... but I'm enjoying myself with the Sun at the moment 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 Hope your back picks up soon, Peete 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mmm... the Zero and OPA-Sun are both singing their little hearts out through my Stax rig 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 Cor... they're all so good... I know I should put the Earth back in... but I'm enjoying myself with the Sun at the moment 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 Hope your back picks up soon, Peete 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl._

 

Thanks AP !!!

 Hows the Stax unit ? Pics and details damn it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The 2 big pink pills I ate 2 hours ago seem to be helping...but there is no way I should operate anything with wheels at the moment...not even a lawn mower 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Loving the Stax. Bit of a mixed bag really. It's shown me just how good my old Sennheisers were(are!) - they're a good 70% as resolving as the Stax setup. They have better "punch" in the bass department, but the Stax setup isn't short in this respect. You tend to hear it more than feel that overwhelming punch of a bass drum - you're able to clearly pick out the bass guitar, and follow it perfectly despite the rest of the song going on.

 I'm hearing things I've not heard before. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 On one song(so far), I'm "sensing" something that I can't hear - bloody difficult to describe, and I don't expect it to make sense. It's like I can hear where an instrument should have been, but wasn't.

 When I'm listening to the rig, I'm seriously in love. It's so fast, clean, honest and resolving. But when I'm away from it, I think that I'm getting 70% of the performance from a set of headphones that are far, far cheaper(think they cost me £30 + delivery 2nd hand(NOS)). I weigh up the cost - £30 against £795(got quite a discount 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), and I feel guilty about spending so much money on what is a comparatively small gain.

 **** it. Each song I hear, it's worth at least that much again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Thanks for that mini review AP. One thing to note about ribbons and I speak from experience (from full range ones) is they take a LONG time to mature...but when they do they will leave the old headphones in the dust. Most conservative estimates are around 5-700 hours...for any type of quality planar/ribbon driver. IME at least with Magnepans and ET LFT VIIIb's.

 The best from (them ) is yet to come !!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cheers mate !!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.

 PS The SUN modules voicing might be better suited to the Stax cans, with my large main speakers I seem to prefer neutral though. If the treble is tipped up in the 2-5K region, ribbons can become beamy and strident...which sucks


----------



## Pricklely Peete

The resolution level and delicacy of ribbons is beyond reproach, play some acoustic chamber music and check it out for yourself...Harpsicord (SP ?) and church organ are also another eye opener when it comes to texture and timbre....all WOW moments with ribbons...

 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

I've got a couple of good sampler discs somewhere. Chesky Records and Pierre Verany, I think. "The old time train" sounds amazing! I'll get them on a bit later - listening to some mid-80's Squeeze... loving it... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Hehe...saw those guys when they were the opening act for the Pretenders first N American tour, as UK Squeeze 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Great show from start to finish that was. Chrissy Hynde's voice is spectacular live....is really what I remember most about that evening. UK Squeeze were really good but I didn't know of many songs they had at that time, maybe one or two...

 That was in 1980...I think...the original line up (Pretenders) before the bass and guitar player died from smack overdoses....idiots..

 Peete.

 PS Are you feeding the Stax amp via the Zero's fixed level output ? Dumb question I suppose...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Chesky's recordings are top notch.....wish some of the big labels would learn from them...

 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That was in 1980...I think...the original line up (Pretenders) before the bass and guitar player died from smack overdoses....idiots..

 Peete.

 PS Are you feeding the Stax amp via the Zero's fixed level output ? Dumb question I suppose...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Heh... I celebrated my first birthday in 1980. Obviously, bar the day I was actually born...

 Yep, fixed output. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 May look at disconnecting the Zero's headphone amplifier section to save on heat generation... my room is warmer than usual now it's heated by tubes... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

You know I bet removing the head amp section of the Zero will make it a little more fleet of foot perhaps, maybe even a little quieter (SNR noise floor speaking) ? It'd be worth the puny effort 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...I mean you don't have to remove the pcb, just unplug it from the main pcb.

 I think I'll give it a go later on tonight ! I'm still breaking in my reworked MK III...so I won't be able to say for sure what the difference will be...but I may be able to notice something perhaps...unless I'm passed out again...which happens from time to time when one doesn't get enough quality rest 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Oh my your first BD in 1980 ? Man I'm getting old....real old 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 LOL....


 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Those 4 transistors on the headphone PCB sure do get very hot indeed. My Zero was cooking earlier when I'd been running the Stax rig from on top of it - the combined heat was pretty intense...

 Could have cooked an egg on the casing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Stick your pinky on the 2 just above those 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 OUCH !!!!

 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

The heat output from the voltage regulators is quite high. I've wondered in the past, but haven't measured it - I wonder what the output voltage from the transformer is. Excess voltage will be dumped as heat, I wonder if that's the cause for all the heat.

 I should really get my meter out and measure it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Maybe....it's also running slightly higher than spec...which may also be the reason. 115V but 125-128V in Canada. 230V (?) vs 240+UK ?

 What do you think AP ?

 Partial cause perhaps ?

 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What do you think AP?_

 

I think I'm going to have to measure it sometime 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Would be nice if we could halve the heat output by just replacing the transformer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 Am off to bed.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HI CC,

 I can't look any further today for the ground points...need to get horizontal for a while (drove all morning today)....using an RCA ground electrically speaking is fine....I understand why you want a short path...that's the way to do it. You could take the nearest neg leg of a cap for instance.

 I'll take a closer, more in depth look tomorrow morning if my back spasms have gone away by then...they should be gone by Sun morning ...I hope 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






 Peete._

 

Take a good healing, you will come back fresh. I love the way u are commited to giving your advice, a good trait to learn.


----------



## gavszero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Those 4 transistors on the headphone PCB sure do get very hot indeed. My Zero was cooking earlier when I'd been running the Stax rig from on top of it - the combined heat was pretty intense...

 Could have cooked an egg on the casing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl._

 

I posted the internal temperature of my zero on page 599 message 5990 just to give you an idea of internal temps ..

 Gavin ..


----------



## David_N

Has anyone used both this and the Beresford TC-7510?


 I'm trying to decide between to two but I'm having a tough time. It will be fed by a PS3 for CD playback and a computer optical output (Haven't decided which card yet, likely one with good perfect bit output).


 I know the Zero only has one input, but if it will give me noticeably better sound than the 7510 I might have to go with that...

 The price between the two does not matter. It will go from the DAC to either an EA6 or EA6SE (Haven't decided which yet).

 Thanks!


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *David_N* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone used both this and the Beresford TC-7510?


 I'm trying to decide between to two but I'm having a tough time. It will be fed by a PS3 for CD playback and a computer optical output (Haven't decided which card yet, likely one with good perfect bit output).


 I know the Zero only has one input, but if it will give me noticeably better sound than the 7510 I might have to go with that...

 The price between the two does not matter. It will go from the DAC to either an EA6 or EA6SE (Haven't decided which yet).

 Thanks!_

 


 U have one of the headphone I like so much, the Grado.

 The flexibility of multiple input with 7510 no doubt a good feature. But sound wise we are not here to compare. 

 The ZERO DAC has opamp swap made easy that u can have a selection like OPA/HDAM that gives you Class A output. (which means less distortion across the amplifying range). The sound quality can be checked with the testimonial given by the users which by general consensus is outstanding with headphone.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gavszero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've read some concern about internal Temperature of the Zero . My Zero has the Earth in the DAC and LT1364's in the head amp. So I decided to try my Aquarium digital temp module with a probe to check. Probe was set between the 2 PC boards over the Earth module with cover on top .This has been my findings .

 After 30 Minutes
 Room Temp - 21.4 C
 Zero internal - 41 C

 After 5 hours
 Room Temp 26.2
 Zero Internal - 44.3 C

 I don't have 3 Hdams to test which could be higher levels . Would these internal temperature's be ok for long term ?





 Gavin ..._

 

Hi Gav,

 Yeah I think those temps are ok. Seem a little high to me ( I've never had a DAC run hot like this...then again I haven't owned that many DACs...so that is neither here nor there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )...LC had no concerns when asked about running 3 HDAMs ...I'm still not entirely convinced of that. I wonder if he's aware of these temps and what he'd have to say about that ? Hmmm....
 I'm hoping the passive method of cooling using convection current airflow that Pench and I have talked about (drill holes in the chassis on the front right underside) previously, may be all that required to keep things around 40 to 45 C ? That experiment has yet to be carried out.....put on to do list 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For all I know.....it may be much ado about nothing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Regardless of my pointless musings,
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 thanks for posting this useful info Gavin !!!

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Hey CC...my back has calmed down considerably since this afternoon. I'll be able to take a really good look for a suitable/optimum ground point for the HDAMs first thing in the morning as planned 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Regards,

 Peete.


----------



## fugimax

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey CC...my back has calmed down considerably since this afternoon. I'll be able to take a really good look for a suitable/optimum ground point for the HDAMs first thing in the morning as planned 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Regards,

 Peete._

 

Good to hear! Looking forward to your findings. Hopefully my gear will be here next week.


----------



## alxwang

Did anyone has 2 sun/earth in place of headphone amp and test is with Denon D2000 yet? I am still waiting for my 2nd set but without upgrade the headphone amp really disappoint me with D2000.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Gav,

 Yeah I think those temps are ok. Seem a little high to me ( I've never had a DAC run hot like this...then again I haven't owned that many DACs...so that is neither here nor there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )...LC had no concerns when asked about running 3 HDAMs ...I'm still not entirely convinced of that. I wonder if he's aware of these temps and what he'd have to say about that ? Hmmm....
 I'm hoping the passive method of cooling using convection current airflow that Pench and I have talked about (drill holes in the chassis on the front right underside) previously, may be all that required to keep things around 40 to 45 C ? That experiment has yet to be carried out.....put on to do list 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For all I know.....it may be much ado about nothing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Regardless of my pointless musings,
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 thanks for posting this useful info Gavin !!!

 Peete._

 

PP there are some computer fans that are really quiet, why don't just put one of these on the top of Zero ?

 Take a look Noctua.at - sound-optimised premium components "Designed in Austria"!


 Diego


----------



## gavszero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PP there are some computer fans that are really quiet, why don't just put one of these on the top of Zero ?

 Take a look Noctua.at - sound-optimised premium components "Designed in Austria"!


 Diego_

 

I was thinking of drilling 4 holes just behind each heatsink of the head amp then can sit a small fan on the back left of the Zero vent slots . That should draw cool air into the hot area and exhaust out the back ... Would have to check for dust build up with fans installed ..





 Gavin ...


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Chesky's recordings are top notch.....wish some of the big labels would learn from them...

 Peete._

 

Hiya Peete and all, gotta agree with you there, I use three of them in checking on equipment etc and really like the variety on the 20th Anniversary of Chesky Records. Especially love the Bucky Pizzarelli swing stuff, terrific live material, fun! 
 I have been patiently running in my Zero in stock form for over four days now, though have been sorely tempted to pop the 627s and 1364s into it. I have taken the 627s out of my kit head amp (KHA) for now and popped in a 1364 in it's place and have been blown away by the quality of a really good op-amp (still HDAM-less for a few more days yet!). That 1364 is just fabulous in KHA with the with the Zero DAC ahead of it and running into the Trevor Lees tube pre-amp! Last night I was sitting on the floor for hours having a ball, the sheer quality of the bass - and soooo deep - just rocked me at times and some deep synth notes on a particular piece of music just seemed to plummet down my spine and into the floor, like a pit had opened up. I was actually laughing out loud sometimes. The 1364 is definitely better in this position of KHA, not quite so mid forward and holographic, but better balanced all round while maintaining what seems to be a trademark transparency of the LT range. 
 Hey Peete, hope your back is relaxing now and you're still able to listen to some fine tunes. Cheers mate,


----------



## shaddix

I am ordering my zero from lawrence very soon. Are you guys certain that the hdam module lawrence uses sounds better than the 627s? If so I will ask for him to install that for me, and also the pot upgrade(is that really needed)?

 by sounds better i mean more neutral/faithful


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shaddix* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am ordering my zero from lawrence very soon. Are you guys certain that the hdam module lawrence uses sounds better than the 627s? If so I will ask for him to install that for me, and also the pot upgrade(is that really needed)?_

 

From what I've understood, the HDAM Lawrence sells is the OPA-Earth. If you buy OPA-Earth (HDAM) from Audio-GD until 31/8, you will get both OPA-Earth and OPA-Sun for the price of one.

 From audio-gd the price will be $55, and lawrence sells one OPA-Earth for $90, so much more expensive.


----------



## shaddix

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From what I've understood, the HDAM Lawrence sells is the OPA-Earth. If you buy OPA-Earth (HDAM) from Audio-GD until 31/8, you will get both OPA-Earth and OPA-Sun for the price of one.

 From audio-gd the price will be $55, and lawrence sells one OPA-Earth for $90, so much more expensive._

 

Oh damn, I guess I will keep the 627 then and dive head first into the DIY 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm going to destroy my zero


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shaddix* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh damn, I guess I will keep the 627 then and dive head first into the DIY 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm going to destroy my zero 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Swapping op-amps is not really what I'd call diy. You just take one out of it's socket and put a new in it. Just make sure you've touched a radiator or another grounding spot first (for removal of static electricity).

 I've not heard of anyone destroying their zero yet by swapping op-amps, and I doubt you'll be the first


----------



## shaddix

Hm okay maybe it will be easier than I am thinking. I build my own computers, hopefully that qualifies me to play around with these things 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Thanks for the advice!


----------



## futuro107

One place is recommended here to get one ZERO at 149 USD totally.


----------



## ccschua

Today since I am on public holiday, I decided to check the ZERO DAC more thoroughly and also the issue about grounding.

 To my surprise, the tightening screw at the DAC and headphone board is measured to give about 9V AC. I cant imagine this is possible since ZERO has a earth wire that is tied to the casing.

 No choice, I removed the casing earth and tied it to the tightening screw (instead of casing). Now all the tightening screw at DAC and heaphone boards is measured almost zero. (3 mV)

 Measuring RCA output to ground, the variations is less than 1 V ac. Can someone tell me why do I get 9V ac on the casing screw. is it due to leakage?

 I wonder who knows the specifications of ZERO output voltage. As of now, I took an easy way out, by connecting OPA Earth ground to the tighetning screw. I know I should tied it to the RCA earth, but I am too lazy to do so (involve soldering)

 Frankly, I like the OPA ground to be connected to earth, as I feel the sound is more to my liking. Slightly more resolution.

 When I measure the earth vs the RCA ground, the difference is minor.

 So I was actually riding 9V AC on the OPA ground all this while. phew.

 When I measure OPA ground with respect to Earth, I get about 0.3V to 0.2V (signal variations).


----------



## edguetzow

Hi, ccschua!

 I am waiting for my ordered HDAM and have been reading about your and Peete's grounding discussion. I currently am running the 627au on the DAC with 1361's in the headamps.

 I will be looking at doing this also and want to be sure of the best method. Sounds like you have found a good ground but I am not exactly sure of which points you are using (locations on the Zero). Is it possible for a photo or two from you?

 Thanks!


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gavszero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was thinking of drilling 4 holes just behind each heatsink of the head amp then can sit a small fan on the back left of the Zero vent slots . That should draw cool air into the hot area and exhaust out the back ... Would have to check for dust build up with fans installed ..





 Gavin ..._

 

I agree with you about the dust issue..... it is possible to use some acrilic fiber on the air intake holes as a dust filter to reduce this problem.... and also cut a big hole, as the pressure of the moving air is not going to be too decreasedl, then limiting the quantity of dust it can push in.....
 I guess there is a beautiful way to do that and sill not make Zero loks like Frankenstein...


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To my surprise, the tightening screw at the DAC and headphone board is measured to give about 9V AC. I cant imagine this is possible since ZERO has a earth wire that is tied to the casing._

 

9v between the screw and where exactly?

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Trax416

I have a question guys. When I ordered my Zero, I had to pick between 110V and 210V. I picked 110V. I don't really understand the difference, or the difference it would make in terms of what headphones I can use.,


----------



## dacavalcante

Well guys... we were talking about how a power line from the house could be filled with "pollution" and that it should be avoided to feed Zero DAC....
 Well... I've ran a little search on my bedroom power supply and found this:
 The same energy line feeds 8 power outlet on the house, which has connected to it: 2 PCs, celular rechargers, 1 router, 1 wireless router....
 The celular charger alone let 5 Volts on the power line when the energy was turned off.... when I plugged it off, I got 0 volts as expected....... Why ? I really don't know.
 Well as you guys can see my zero is getting so much pollution from AC outlet...
 Not to metion the wireless routr is wall to wall with it..... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think I have to spend some money on filtering all these.... do you guys got any ideia ? 
 Does a car battery can hold it for long without recharging ? I'm really thinking about buying a car battery and use it to feed my Zero and Yulong speaker amplifier........ what do you guys think ?


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trax416* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a question guys. When I ordered my Zero, I had to pick between 110V and 210V. I picked 110V. I don't really understand the difference, or the difference it would make in terms of what headphones I can use.,_

 

Where do you live? The numbers you quote are the input voltages, which you'll have to match with your regional voltage.

 If you were to fill in your location field in your profile, for example, we'd be able to advise you on what voltage you need to use.

 Adjustment between 115v and 230v is made at the rear of the DAC, and can be simply switched. But use of the wrong voltage can terminate your relationship with your DAC with incredible ultimacy... select 115v in the UK and you'll pop a heap of regulators, and end up replacing the whole unit IMO.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## dario

right, voltage selection is'nt a choice, is a necessity...


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_9v between the screw and where exactly?

 ~Phewl._

 

9V between the screw and the earth. The earth is found at the green wire from the power socket.


----------



## Trax416

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where do you live? The numbers you quote are the input voltages, which you'll have to match with your regional voltage.

 If you were to fill in your location field in your profile, for example, we'd be able to advise you on what voltage you need to use.

 Adjustment between 115v and 230v is made at the rear of the DAC, and can be simply switched. But use of the wrong voltage can terminate your relationship with your DAC with incredible ultimacy... select 115v in the UK and you'll pop a heap of regulators, and end up replacing the whole unit IMO.

 ~Phewl._

 

I live in Toronto Canada.


----------



## DaMnEd

You picked the right one then, 110V. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But do check the setting anyway when the unit arrives.


----------



## Trax416

Will do, thanks for the info guys. What a relief.

 One last question. I see a lot of people switching out the DAC(i think) and replacing it with an OPA Sun. How would I go about doing this if I were to in the future, and where would I go about buying an OPA Sun.


----------



## shaddix

Quote:


 Dear Sir ,



 HDAM built serious than sun and earth.

 HDAM use more FET and transistor than sun and earth.



 Thank you very much !



 Best regards,

 Lawrence 
 

I read earlier in the thread that opa-earth and lawrences hdam sound exactly the same, but if they are different pieces of hardware that seems impossible right? Does this mean I should get the one from lawrence? He seems to think the one he has is better.


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trax416* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One last question. I see a lot of people switching out the DAC(i think) and replacing it with an OPA Sun. How would I go about doing this if I were to in the future, and where would I go about buying an OPA Sun._

 

We do not change the DAC, only the opamp on the DAC section. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 You can find that info here: Review: ZERO 24 BIT/192KHz DAC/Headphone Amp/Pre-Amp - Page 571 - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shaddix* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I read earlier in the thread that opa-earth and lawrences hdam sound exactly the same, but if they are different pieces of hardware that seems impossible right? Does this mean I should get the one from lawrence? He seems to think the one he has is better._

 

Nothing is impossible and even if they are in fact different they would still share the same basic design/function, so, sounding the same wouldn’t be that farfetched. Having more “FET and transistors” does not necessarily equate to different or better sound.


----------



## taso89

Speaking of which, how difficult would it be to replace the AD1852 DAC chip (not opamp)? The one in the Zero seems less than capable at decoding 192KHz (though it does 96KHz and less just fine).


----------



## Trax416

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_We do not change the DAC, only the opamp on the DAC section. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You can find that info here: Review: ZERO 24 BIT/192KHz DAC/Headphone Amp/Pre-Amp - Page 571 - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio



 Nothing is impossible and even if they are in fact different they would still share the same basic design/function, so, sounding the same wouldn’t be that farfetched. Having more “FET and transistors” does not necessarily equate to different or better sound._

 

Thanks. From what I gather you need to solder and have some experience. Something, I do not have nor know how to do. 

 So hopefully the Zero will work well as is. Then work a bit better when I get a Little Dot I+


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trax416* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks. From what I gather you need to solder and have some experience. Something, I do not have nor know how to do. 

 So hopefully the Zero will work well as is. Then work a bit better when I get a Little Dot I+_

 

No, you do not need to solder at all, changing the proposed opamps is just a plug and play solution. You just have to open-up the DAC, take the default opamp, and connect the new one, and you’re done.

Soldering is required only for more advanced modding like changing the default pot for a alps pot and things of that nature, the opamps do not need this because they are socketed no soldering/disordering needed!


----------



## Trax416

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, you do not need to solder at all, changing the proposed opamps is just a plug and play solution. You just have to open-up the DAC, take the default opamp, and connect the new one, and you’re done.

Soldering is required only for more advanced modding like changing the default pot for a alps pot and things of that nature, the opamps do not need this because they are socketed no soldering/disordering needed! _

 

Whoa, well thats good to know. I build computer systems for a living, so anything outside of soldering, is what I do.

 Is there a diagram or picture anywhere, where I can see how the procedure is done, and what exactly I am looking for?


----------



## LeBuLLeT

trax416 don't worry about replacing the default op amp. You will see it immediately when you open the Zero. Just take the little chip off and connect it with a better one. I thought that it was going to be difficult but it really isn't it. Super easy trust me. :-D


----------



## Trax416

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_trax416 don't worry about replacing the default op amp. You will see it immediately when you open the Zero. Just take the little chip off and connect it with a better one. I thought that it was going to be difficult but it really isn't it. Super easy trust me. :-D_

 

I am glad, but I really have no idea what I am looking for inside the Zero. I also don't know what chips to replace them with, what the Op amp and DAC look like, or what the other chips I can replace look like (and what they do).


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Today since I am on public holiday, I decided to check the ZERO DAC more thoroughly and also the issue about grounding.

 To my surprise, the tightening screw at the DAC and headphone board is measured to give about 9V AC. I cant imagine this is possible since ZERO has a earth wire that is tied to the casing.

 No choice, I removed the casing earth and tied it to the tightening screw (instead of casing). Now all the tightening screw at DAC and headphone boards is measured almost zero. (3 mV)

 Measuring RCA output to ground, the variations is less than 1 V ac. Can someone tell me why do I get 9V ac on the casing screw. is it due to leakage?

 I wonder who knows the specifications of ZERO output voltage. As of now, I took an easy way out, by connecting OPA Earth ground to the tighetning screw. I know I should tied it to the RCA earth, but I am too lazy to do so (involve soldering)

 Frankly, I like the OPA ground to be connected to earth, as I feel the sound is more to my liking. Slightly more resolution.

 When I measure the earth vs the RCA ground, the difference is minor.

 So I was actually riding 9V AC on the OPA ground all this while. phew.

 When I measure OPA ground with respect to Earth, I get about 0.3V to 0.2V (signal variations)._

 

HI CC,

 Sorry I'm so late getting back to you on this...as you know it's a holiday weekend and I was told at noon today the family is due at a BBQ at 2 pm...I had about 20 minutes (slept in for a change, till noon...lazy bugger ..I know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) to poke around the Zero with the meter.

 That's really odd your getting 9V at the spot you talked about. When I measured my bolts and then some points on the pcb I was getting 0V DC. Hmmm....I'm not sure I did it correctly at first...so then dropped the range on the meter from 200V DC to 20V...still no reading at either bolt on the H/Amp board (which is good I might add) or the one located near the HDAM on the main PCB. At this time I'm running the ground from the DAC HDAM to the pcb bolt (chassis ground) and the SUN HDAMs unconnected. It occurs to me that pin 4 is V- with V+ getting approx 15.2 V DC from the reg. Wouldn't the V- point on pin 4 simply be the same ground point for the module as the extra lead if you ground that with RCA ground point ? Seems redundant does it not ? Rather wouldn't attachment of the extra ground lead increase the potential for a ground loop ?

 I'm just thinking out loud about this...I could be totally wrong about it...

 I've tried both positions on the Zero with the leads attached and not...there is no audible difference I can detect. I have yet to try a pcb RCA ground point....I'm thinking of taking the neg legs of the two red 100uf 16V Elna cerafine caps since they are very close to the HDAM in the circuit...I need to disassemble the Zero to solder on some leads from the underside to try it (a small alligator clip will work for a temp connection). Honestly I don't expect any audible improvement since pin 4 V- is on the same ground as the neg legs of the cerafine caps (are they not?). Unless I'm mistaken...which is entirely possible 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have another BBQ to attend tomorrow so I'll likely report the findings on Tuesday after letting the temp ground connection run for a few hours first.

 Happy Labor Day weekend to all !!!!!!

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hiya Peete and all, gotta agree with you there, I use three of them in checking on equipment etc and really like the variety on the 20th Anniversary of Chesky Records. Especially love the Bucky Pizzarelli swing stuff, terrific live material, fun! 
 I have been patiently running in my Zero in stock form for over four days now, though have been sorely tempted to pop the 627s and 1364s into it. I have taken the 627s out of my kit head amp (KHA) for now and popped in a 1364 in it's place and have been blown away by the quality of a really good op-amp (still HDAM-less for a few more days yet!). That 1364 is just fabulous in KHA with the with the Zero DAC ahead of it and running into the Trevor Lees tube pre-amp! Last night I was sitting on the floor for hours having a ball, the sheer quality of the bass - and soooo deep - just rocked me at times and some deep synth notes on a particular piece of music just seemed to plummet down my spine and into the floor, like a pit had opened up. I was actually laughing out loud sometimes. The 1364 is definitely better in this position of KHA, not quite so mid forward and holographic, but better balanced all round while maintaining what seems to be a trademark transparency of the LT range. 
 Hey Peete, hope your back is relaxing now and you're still able to listen to some fine tunes. Cheers mate, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Sounds like fun S-Man 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The quality of bass, Pench and I have discussed this at length, is IMO the heart and soul of a good system, without it, the music looses it's visceral edge and impact, scale is lost, sense of realism...so many things that are needed to suspend the element of belief that is vital to the enjoyment of recorded music revolves around getting the bass right first and the highs right (in digital playback especially) second. 

 It's what separates good systems from great ones, again..IMO. Chesky I believe understand this concept...dynamics play a major role...I wish the big labels would stop compressing the life out their recordings (the loudness wars...sigh) and start doing things they way they used to be done. End of mini rant 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm glad your enjoying your Zero...it's got loads of potential which still has me shaking me head at times....as in how the hell do they do this for 140 bucks..(add a few more $$$ for the upgrades and mods...and it's still peanuts).

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Trax,

 You can't just swap the AD DAC chip (you can if you really want to), the entire DAC is voiced around this DAC's SQ characteristics, besides it's a hell of a job to de solder all those tiny pins without lifting a trace (and killing the pcb board)...just ask AudoPhewl 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sorry AP....your a brave lad for trying that !!!

 It's a job I wouldn't even tackle and I have tons of experience rebuilding stuff....smd and huge pin outs packed in with .5 mm spacing ? No way jose 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Don't worry, the guys are correct, swapping opamps is dead easy compared to anything else other than adding an HDAM, which is even easier 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Trax416

SOunds good. I just don't know where the Opamps are, and what I should switch them to (I keep reading Op-Sun or something along those lines). Also, where would I put an HDAM and how does it work? 

 I apologize for all these questions, but I am very interested in learning. 

 If Anyone can get a picture of the insides of the Zero, and circle and label what chips I replace and what each does, I would be very grateful.


----------



## viscosity

so whats the verdict.. Earth in DAC and 2Sun in Headamp or Sun in DAC and 2Earth in headamp?


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trax416* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_SOunds good. I just don't know where the Opamps are, and what I should switch them to (I keep reading Op-Sun or something along those lines). Also, where would I put an HDAM and how does it work? 

 I apologize for all these questions, but I am very interested in learning. 

 If Anyone can get a picture of the insides of the Zero, and circle and label what chips I replace and what each does, I would be very grateful._

 

When my HDAMs arrive I can do that for you, but that can take a while (Portugal customs sucks), and I’m not sure my cell camera is up to the job .

 I do understand you wanting this, and others do as well, this thread is so big no-one can find anything properly. I’m thinking of buying a proper camera soon, if no one does this till then, I will make a tutorial explaining how-to install the HDAMs and or any other opamps, perhaps even the pot mod I’m about to do.

 Opamps do have to be inserted in a certain orientation, they can also be inserted the wrong way and burn… they do come with markings to help, but many here are not familiar with electronics and do not know for what to look.


----------



## wpfloridian

Hi Guys,

 75+ Hours into the burn-in of my Zero.....WOW!
 I was at the Florida meet and can safely say that I do NOT need to spend thousands to get great audio for my music! 

 Thanks to you all for your time into this message board!! Next step; swap the opamps?...I went the the site of the guys who makes them and he reported being out of stock for the moment.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have two options one being the swap of the opamp... 

 As viscosity noted: 

 "so whats the verdict.. Earth in DAC and 2Sun in Headamp or Sun in DAC and 2Earth in headamp?"


 I also spoke with the gentleman from Reference Audio Mods, cd player mods,audio mods, audio modifications and for $500 he would do an overhaul of the Zero..more or less to what he does to the PS AUDIO DAC...is this overkill?? What do you guys think?


----------



## DaMnEd

Spending 5x the amount the default unit costs is the very definition of overkill. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Seriously, do the recommended opamps switch (the OPAs from Audio-GD will be in stock again soon, no worries...) and appreciate what you have for some time, then, if you really find you want more, for that kind of scratch you can get a pro-built DAC unit.


----------



## fugimax

Can someone with HDAMs in their Zero take a photo of your setup? Peete?

 I'm curious where you've got them sitting..


----------



## Trax416

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When my HDAMs arrive I can do that for you, but that can take a while (Portugal customs sucks), and I’m not sure my cell camera is up to the job .

 I do understand you wanting this, and others do as well, this thread is so big no-one can find anything properly. I’m thinking of buying a proper camera soon, if no one does this till then, I will make a tutorial explaining how-to install the HDAMs and or any other opamps, perhaps even the pot mod I’m about to do.

 Opamps do have to be inserted in a certain orientation, they can also be inserted the wrong way and burn… they do come with markings to help, but many here are not familiar with electronics and do not know for what to look._

 

That would be great. 

 I basically just need a photoshoped diagram (from an actual picture) with labels, and it shouldn't be to hard. 

 One of the other posters said it's all basically plug and play. So as long as I insert them correctly, and know where to put them everything should work out. 

 I still don't know what an HDAM is, or what it does, or what it's relationship to the op amp chips is lol.


----------



## azncookiecutter

Found a suitable toslink cable, so my Zero is up and running with my Millet Hybrid. Although the Millet is acting funky at the moment, it sounds incredible through the Zero at this moment. Definitely money well spent at this point.


----------



## Trax416

<Moderator Edit>

 Ok. Well i labeled a picture. 







 The one I circled in green is what I think is the Opamp. Is this correct? Also, what are the longer chips I circled in orange? 

 I see in some peoples sigs, they replace three chips, they put in an Op-Sun, then two others chips that look like L342342. What is the difference?

 So I am assuming you yank out the Op amp (Green) and stick this big thing inside the socket 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also, an above poster said I don't need to change the opamp, and I could change other chips. What is he talking about.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HI CC,

 That's really odd your getting 9V at the spot you talked about. When I measured my bolts and then some points on the pcb I was getting 0V DC. Hmmm....I'm not sure I did it correctly at first...so then dropped the range on the meter from 200V DC to 20V...still no reading at either bolt on the H/Amp board (which is good I might add) or the one located near the HDAM on the main PCB. At this time I'm running the ground from the DAC HDAM to the pcb bolt (chassis ground) and the SUN HDAMs unconnected. It occurs to me that pin 4 is V- with V+ getting approx 15.2 V DC from the reg. Wouldn't the V- point on pin 4 simply be the same ground point for the module as the extra lead if you ground that with RCA ground point ? Seems redundant does it not ? Rather wouldn't attachment of the extra ground lead increase the potential for a ground loop ?

 I'm just thinking out loud about this...I could be totally wrong about it...

 I've tried both positions on the Zero with the leads attached and not...there is no audible difference I can detect. I have yet to try a pcb RCA ground point....I'm thinking of taking the neg legs of the two red 100uf 16V Elna cerafine caps since they are very close to the HDAM in the circuit...I need to disassemble the Zero to solder on some leads from the underside to try it (a small alligator clip will work for a temp connection). Honestly I don't expect any audible improvement since pin 4 V- is on the same ground as the neg legs of the cerafine caps (are they not?). Unless I'm mistaken...which is entirely possible 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Peete._

 

HI PP,

 I was naive to the audio world electronics.

 I think u have a good earth on the bolt as compared to mine. Pin 4 is V- of the OPA which is required since OPA works in V+ and V-. If u refer to Audio-gd OPA circuit diagram, u notice the Gnd point is floated.

 First the basic principal. all power supply to DAC and OPA is DC. The OPA Sun or Earth accepts up to + 25V on V+ and - 25V on V-. Whereas Zero power supply to OPA is V+ = +15Vdc and V- = -15V dc. 

 1. Increasing V+ to higher voltage say V+ = 18V dc on OPA Sun / Earth will affect the output sound quality. I think this mod will be complicated and may not be beneficial.

 2. Connecting the OPA Ground to ground will affect sound quality (not all the hifi setup will give the difference, but I feel there is a difference).

 3. Measuring the V+ (pin 8) and V- (pin 4) of OPA gives me +15.14Vdc and -15.14V dc.

 4. I still cant figure out Why the 9V ac got into the bolts. On my dvd player, I have about 50V ac floated on the casing, which I earth it.

 here attached is the photo of the new earth wire connection.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *azncookiecutter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Found a suitable toslink cable, so my Zero is up and running with my Millet Hybrid. Although the Millet is acting funky at the moment, it sounds incredible through the Zero at this moment. Definitely money well spent at this point._

 

Hope u are satisfied with it. what opamp are u using.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trax416* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok. Well i labeled a picture. 

 The one I circled in green is what I think is the Opamp. Is this correct? Also, what are the longer chips I circled in orange? 

 I see in some peoples sigs, they replace three chips, they put in an Op-Sun, then two others chips that look like L342342. What is the difference?

 So I am assuming you yank out the Op amp (Green) and stick this big thing inside the socket 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also, an above poster said I don't need to change the opamp, and I could change other chips. What is he talking about._

 

The circle in green indeed is the OPamp (OPA) that is called the DAC opamp. It outputs to the RCA and to Headphone amp. The headphone amp is the little redboard located to the headphone jack.

 The circle in orange is one of them the CS8416 which is used for receiving the digital signal via OPtical link or Coaxial.

 Tha DAC chip is not shown here. This AD1852 DAC chip is below the PCB.

 If u put the OPA/HDAM into the green circle, or socalled DAC opamp, u will get improvement to the sound at RCA and headphone amp. The headphone has 2 other opamp (NE5532) which can be swapped again for better sound improvement.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Thanks CC,

 I've tested the ground issue with my main rig which will expose any improvement or degredation of SQ no matter how great or small. I simply couldn't hear a difference between leaving the wire off and having it connected (to the chassis bolt).

 I could be wrong...but that's what I've heard from it so far. 

 I need to test the third option as you assert, to see if there is a slight improvement in SQ.


 Peete.


----------



## Trax416

Thanks for the response. 

 So essentially, I can replace the green circle with the OPA-Sun. Then if I want better sound quality, I can add two more OPA-Suns, or other OPamps to the two on the headphone board? Is this correct? 

 A couple more questions and I am pretty straight no this concept. How do I go about removing the old Op amp? Is it soldered in place? Someone above said it's all plug and play with the Zero. So I am assuming it pops off and I just pop the OPA-Sun in it's place? 

 I also hear alot of talk about the OPA627. Is that an alternative instead of using say an OPA-Earth or OPA-Sun?

 Also what is an HDAM? Is it just another word for an Opamp?


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trax416* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the response. 

 So essentially, I can replace the green circle with the OPA-Sun. Then if I want better sound quality, I can add two more OPA-Suns, or other OPamps to the two on the headphone board? Is this correct? 

 A couple more questions and I am pretty straight no this concept. How do I go about removing the old Op amp? Is it soldered in place? Someone above said it's all plug and play with the Zero. So I am assuming it pops off and I just pop the OPA-Sun in it's place? 

 I also hear alot of talk about the OPA627. Is that an alternative instead of using say an OPA-Earth or OPA-Sun?

 Also what is an HDAM? Is it just another word for an Opamp?_

 

That opamp is DIP, which u can just pop it off using fingers (better to use a long nose plier). Before u remove, u will notice a small circle/dimple. That marks the head and on OPA u will notice a similar semicircle. Just make sure u plug in with the same orientation.

 Are u sure u are not giving a try for the OPA Earth.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sounds like fun S-Man 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The quality of bass, Pench and I have discussed this at length, is IMO the heart and soul of a good system, without it, the music looses it's visceral edge and impact, scale is lost, sense of realism...so many things that are needed to suspend the element of belief that is vital to the enjoyment of recorded music revolves around getting the bass right first and the highs right (in digital playback especially) second. 

 It's what separates good systems from great ones, again..IMO. Chesky I believe understand this concept...dynamics play a major role...I wish the big labels would stop compressing the life out their recordings (the loudness wars...sigh) and start doing things they way they used to be done. End of mini rant 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm glad your enjoying your Zero...it's got loads of potential which still has me shaking me head at times....as in how the hell do they do this for 140 bucks..(add a few more $$$ for the upgrades and mods...and it's still peanuts).

 Peete._

 

 Firstly, happy Labour Day to you all there! Yeah, mate I've been doing a lot of head shaking lately, often flabbergasted. Too true on the bass, eh, as when you tune a turntable or align a cartridge correctly, as you get the bass right, the rest will follow in tune. Just given the Zero another upgrade today, that wasn't electronic; I decided I wanted to try using a decent quality coax cable and see how it compared to to the standard Toslink optical cable I received with the Zero. I came home with a very nice MIT AVt 2 digital interconnect, popped it in with a CD on repeat and went out for a couple of hours. Blown away with what I heard from then on! Crikey, talk about an upgrade! It's easy to switch between the two inputs with a CD playing so differences are immediately heard. First thing I noticed was the clarity of the soundstage, easy to hear because the whole sound from lowest bass to highest highs gains a purity the Toslink cannot match, I was stunned by the transparency and this with the standard op-amps in use. Going from the DAC out to KHA with the wonderful LT1364s created an effortless holographic sound stage, I was hearing the floor AND the walls of live events for the first time. The bass is solid, tight and focused and plummets effortlessly when required, as in a couple of terrific CDs of the organ, 'Norma' in the Dunedin Town Hall, in NZ's South Island. 
 The standard head amp on my Zero has a midrange edge that I haven't liked that much, even after 80+ hours of burn-in. Switch to the MIT S/PDIF cable and that edge changes to a clean focused midrange that is also a little smoother, not so forward, is more transparent and the bass is wonderful and treble is cleaner and faster. The optical cable is both softer and edgier at the same time. For those who are still using the optical cable and haven't tried a decent coax yet, this is something I can really recommend! True, in NZ at least, the MIT cable does add $180 (!!) to the equation, gulp, but the higher the resolution of the system, the more essential better cables become. 
 I don't like midrange edge in my music much any more, at least not as a feature of the electronics and that MIT cable is NOT going back to the shop! 
 I needed to hear what the pre-burned OPA627s would do to the Zero, so in they went. ULP! It's like the difference between the cables again, even more speed ... well, you guys who have done this already know what happens and it can be read in many parts of this thread, so I won't babble on about it. 
 What Penchum and you, Peete and others have mentioned is just spot on, as op-amps go these are simply fabulous! My HDAMs will be here this week and I'm not so sure I can stand it, HAH! Phew, I think I'll just settle for the week and soak in the fact that not one of the CDs I've listened to so far - quite a few - sounds like I've ever heard it before and I need a break before the next upgrade! Damn, I love it though!!


----------



## Nedman

Sennsay, you are going to really love the HDAMs LOL.

 PS/ I prefer the Sun unit.


----------



## ccschua

Sennsay, with the way u describe, u would better get a chin strap when u try the OPA Earth/Sun


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sennsay, with the way u describe, u would better get a chin strap when u try the OPA Earth/Sun_

 

Haha! Nedman and ccschua, I got two of each coming so's I can pop one in KHA as well and I might just roll around on the floor with my legs and feet in the air for a while. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Senn 555s are already sounding way above what you'd expect for the money.


----------



## dacavalcante

I know it's getting a little off-topic. But I was wondering what you guys think about this mains filter project:
Versão traduzida de http://www.pcproject.com.br/forum/projetos/11918-filtro_de_linha_parte_2_a.html

 It was written in portuguese and I used google to translate to english.

 I'll use it with Zero. It Seems very nice to me at least.... 120db cut on 55khz... 5th order.... I guess it must do a pretty nice job filtring AC power lines....

 Right ?


 Diego


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know it's getting a little off-topic. But I was wondering what you guys think about mains filter this project:
Versão traduzida de http://www.pcproject.com.br/forum/projetos/11918-filtro_de_linha_parte_2_a.html

 It was written in portuguese and I used google to translate to english.

 I'll use it with Zero. It Seems very nice to me at least.... 120db cut on 55khz... 5th order.... I guess it must do a pretty nice job filtring AC power lines....

 Right ?


 Diego_

 

I believe in this gadgets that brings improvement to audio listening. Here is another link about it and some other interesting info as well.

Jon_Risch's Web Site

 As I am no DIY, I just got a unit of commercial product (Xindak). It also serve as universal connector as well.

 However, I believe with this gadget, my DAC/amp is ready to sing, as I do not think the benefits/cost in the AC UPS / Power regeneration. This is because most of the DAC/amp supply is run in DC. After poor ac signal arrive, it will be converted to DC and there is a pool of capacitor to hold that charge. [conversely RFI / EMI can not be got rid off without the filter]


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I believe in this gadgets that brings improvement to audio listening. Here is another link about it and some other interesting info as well.

Jon_Risch's Web Site

 As I am no DIY, I just got a unit of commercial product (Xindak). It also serve as universal connector as well._

 

Did you got a nice improvement using it ?


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you got a nice improvement using it ?_

 

I dont really test it, as I have difficulty in access [in other words, too lazy to open up for test]

 The EMI/RFI if not stopped, will travel happily, amplified and occuppied part of the highway that carries the signal. Worst of all, it distorts the signal. The signal that actually travels to speaker is current, as we would argue, but include EM wave. yes audio signals that travel like EM wave on the outter surface.

 I have seen most of the HIFI setup has the line filter.


----------



## fdbf

does someone of you guys have opa 627 and lt1364 or lme49720 he's not using anymore to sell to me? Thanks

 P.S. I live in italy


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To clarify on Burson HDAM, it is actually designed by audio-gd. Burson got the rights for it for 2 years. This is the first generation HDAM. Now audio-gd has introduced the second generation HDAM, which is OPA Earth that has improvement over HDAM. The packacging, the components and its value, the design is also improved. OPA Earth is just one of the products launched, there are other products such as buffer3 , etc. as well. OPA Earth gives you the accuracy, soundstaging, tonal balance and atmosphere as well as dynamics (at slightly slower dynamics and less forward as compared to OPA Sun) as compared to other opamp such as OPA 2604/OPA627._

 

Hey CC,

 I have a question for you. If the "earth" is an improved model of the original HDAM, do you have any idea why audio-gd's site said they were the same?
 Was this info they hadn't updated yet, or is there a miscommunication somewhere?

 If they are new and improved, this would be VERY cool indeed.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This info can be found at the audio-gd website. 
ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1

 OPA earth is not exactly the same as HDAM. The pcb is also slightly different, as I was told.

 I would like to know if HDAM and OPA Earth does present some difference._

 

On the page you linked to, this paragraph tells us the OPA Earth is the first generation discrete opamp (HDAM) they have been selling for a long time. Check this out:

 OPA – Earth : Our first generation discrete opamp has been sold throughout the world by other marketing means. This discrete opamp utilizes integrated cascode circuit with the schematic based on single channel circuit which is an improvement based on new improved parameters and technology. The sound characteristics is neutral and natural. THD Less than 0.0005%(1KHz), Operating voltage：±9 TO ±25V，Open loop gain：35DB，Operating current：Approx. 28MA（Single Output），Approx. 56MA（Dual Output）。

 See what I mean? If the wording is wrong, then they should fix it so everything is understood properly. Or, perhaps we need more clarification from Kingwa on this, I don't know for sure. Thoughts??


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Happy Labor Day to all !!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Peete.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On the page you linked to, this paragraph tells us the OPA Earth is the first generation discrete opamp (HDAM) they have been selling for a long time. Check this out:

 OPA – Earth : Our first generation discrete opamp has been sold throughout the world by other marketing means. This discrete opamp utilizes integrated cascode circuit with the schematic based on single channel circuit which is an improvement based on new improved parameters and technology. The sound characteristics is neutral and natural. THD Less than 0.0005%(1KHz), Operating voltage：±9 TO ±25V，Open loop gain：35DB，Operating current：Approx. 28MA（Single Output），Approx. 56MA（Dual Output）。

 See what I mean? If the wording is wrong, then they should fix it so everything is understood properly. Or, perhaps we need more clarification from Kingwa on this, I don't know for sure. Thoughts?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The website "our first generation discrete opamp" actually refers to the HDAM which is marketed under Bursons (they got the rights). 

 OPA-earth is the second generation discrete opamp design with the same circuit as HDAM. Below is the improvement made to the OPA-Earth :

 1. OPA Earth has been improved with new parameters values used in the components. Its output sound quality is more stable across wider supply voltage as compared to HDAM which may deteriote with lower input voltage.

 2. OPA Earth is more stable with better transparency as compared to old design.

 3. Given the change in parameters, the sound quality difference between with and without ground connection is minimized.

 In addition to changes in component values, one distinct difference is the BJT used in the attached photo. When working near its full load condition, Old design (HDAM) is affected more negatively by the sound quality, stability and life value as compared to OPA Earth. OPA Earth, with a bigger capacity BJT, has more capacity to perform.


----------



## Trax416

Does the OPA-SUn and OPA Earth fit inside the casing plugged in vertical? Or will I need to purchase the extension.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trax416* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does the OPA-SUn and OPA Earth fit inside the casing plugged in vertical? Or will I need to purchase the extension._

 

You'll need the extension unless you want to keep the cover off or make a new one. I'm still wondering why my extension lead seems to be of a different buid and much lesser quality than the ones everyone else seems to have gotten (and the picture on their web site). I mean alls well that ends well (and I learned to solder finally) but that's beside the point...


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Firstly, happy Labour Day to you all there! Yeah, mate I've been doing a lot of head shaking lately, often flabbergasted. Too true on the bass, eh, as when you tune a turntable or align a cartridge correctly, as you get the bass right, the rest will follow in tune. Just given the Zero another upgrade today, that wasn't electronic; I decided I wanted to try using a decent quality coax cable and see how it compared to to the standard Toslink optical cable I received with the Zero. I came home with a very nice MIT AVt 2 digital interconnect, popped it in with a CD on repeat and went out for a couple of hours. Blown away with what I heard from then on! Crikey, talk about an upgrade! It's easy to switch between the two inputs with a CD playing so differences are immediately heard. First thing I noticed was the clarity of the soundstage, easy to hear because the whole sound from lowest bass to highest highs gains a purity the Toslink cannot match, I was stunned by the transparency and this with the standard op-amps in use. Going from the DAC out to KHA with the wonderful LT1364s created an effortless holographic sound stage, I was hearing the floor AND the walls of live events for the first time. The bass is solid, tight and focused and plummets effortlessly when required, as in a couple of terrific CDs of the organ, 'Norma' in the Dunedin Town Hall, in NZ's South Island._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The standard head amp on my Zero has a midrange edge that I haven't liked that much, even after 80+ hours of burn-in. Switch to the MIT S/PDIF cable and that edge changes to a clean focused midrange that is also a little smoother, not so forward, is more transparent and the bass is wonderful and treble is cleaner and faster. The optical cable is both softer and edgier at the same time. For those who are still using the optical cable and haven't tried a decent coax yet, this is something I can really recommend! True, in NZ at least, the MIT cable does add $180 (!!) to the equation, gulp, but the higher the resolution of the system, the more essential better cables become. 
I don't like midrange edge in my music much any more, at least not as a feature of the electronics and that MIT cable is NOT going back to the shop!_

 

One of these days do try a Glass toslink, from the research I've done, a glass toslink should match a good coax, and would be considerably less expensive. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I’ve seen quite a few “wow's” like yours (toslink > coax) from people going from a basic plastic based toslink to a glass one.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Big list on page one:-
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...re-amp-269458/

 ~Phewl.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *123cans* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello guys

 I've ordered my Zero. Can you please suggest a good dual opamp for it?_

 

There's a big list on this matter on the first page of the topic...



 Diego


----------



## Trax416

Looks like I will order then OPA-SUN or OPA-Earth when my Zero gets here. 

 From what I gather I just pop off the DAC OPAMP with pliers, then just connect the OPA SUN with the extension cable. No soldering required.

 Can anyone explain to me what the OPA627 is. Is it an OPamp I can use instead of the OPA-SUN? I see a lot of people using it.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trax416* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can anyone explain to me what the OPA627 is. Is it an OPamp I can use instead of the OPA-SUN? I see a lot of people using it._

 

The OPA627 is a "traditional" opamp chip - one that has been found to sound pretty darn good in the DAC section of the zero (see page one of this thread - Penchum's rreview). The OPA Sun is a "discrete opamp" - meaning an opamp with components more geared toward audio specifically. Check it:
ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1

 Make sure you read all the way through Penchum's review, though. There is a TON of info there.

 Woo-hoo 100th post (only took me 2 years!) -- and why is it I always seem to do so much LABOR on labor day? Thought it was supposed to be a day off! Meh...


----------



## Trax416

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The OPA627 is a "traditional" opamp chip - one that has been found to sound pretty darn good in the DAC section of the zero (see page one of this thread - Penchum's rreview). The OPA Sun is a "discrete opamp" - meaning an opamp with components more geared toward audio specifically. Check it:
ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1

 Make sure you read all the way through Penchum's review, though. There is a TON of info there.

 Woo-hoo 100th post (only took me 2 years!) -- and why is it I always seem to do so much LABOR on labor day? Thought it was supposed to be a day off! Meh... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

 Sounds good. I might go with the OPA627 just because I am going to move the ZERO around a lot (toss it in a bag when I go on a trip for example), and the OPA-SUN bouncing around on it's extension inside the casing might cause an issue. 

 Thanks for all the help. So All I do is just pop off the old chip with Pliers, then push the OPA627 into the socket? Will it click into place? or do I need to do anything more to lock it down.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The OPA627 is a "traditional" opamp chip - one that has been found to sound pretty darn good in the DAC section of the zero (see page one of this thread - Penchum's rreview). The OPA Sun is a "discrete opamp" - meaning an opamp with components more geared toward audio specifically. Check it:
ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1

 Make sure you read all the way through Penchum's review, though. There is a TON of info there.

 Woo-hoo 100th post (only took me 2 years!) -- and why is it I always seem to do so much LABOR on labor day? Thought it was supposed to be a day off! Meh... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm getting there 2..... + 2 posts to go.... "only took" 2 years too.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 And thanks to this post I'll hit this mark..... Lol...


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trax416* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sounds good. I might go with the OPA627 just because I am going to move the ZERO around a lot (toss it in a bag when I go on a trip for example), and the OPA-SUN bouncing around on it's extension inside the casing might cause an issue. 

 Thanks for all the help. So All I do is just pop off the old chip with Pliers, then push the OPA627 into the socket? Will it click into place? or do I need to do anything more to lock it down._

 

just push it.... it's really that easy and simple.... just be careful when taking the stock one out, to not break it "legs"


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trax416* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sounds good. I might go with the OPA627 just because I am going to move the ZERO around a lot (toss it in a bag when I go on a trip for example), and the OPA-SUN bouncing around on it's extension inside the casing might cause an issue. 

 Thanks for all the help. So All I do is just pop off the old chip with Pliers, then push the OPA627 into the socket? Will it click into place? or do I need to do anything more to lock it down._

 

Oh, and be sure to insert it on the right position... all chips have a mark indicating the right side, and also the socket.... pay attention before taking the stock one out on the mark position...

 Geee.... this was my 100th post also!!


----------



## jizzzared

I don't want to take this thread off topic, but I'm very interested in getting this Zero amp/DAC but have a question if I'll be able to use it with my setup. I have a computer with a chaintech av-710 soundcard. I'm using the optical out to go to my receiver. I have an amp hooked up to the receiver through the L/R preouts where it drives my speakers. I know the Zero requires a digital input. Now here's what I'm unsure of. Can I keep my optical out going to my receiver and then hook up the receiver to the ZERO DAC or is this not possible? Will I be able to have both my receiver/amp (for speakers) and the ZERO DAC/amp hooked up at the same time? Thanks for any replies.


----------



## Trax416

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh, and be sure to insert it on the right position... all chips have a mark indicating the right side, and also the socket.... pay attention before taking the stock one out on the mark position...

 Geee.... this was my 100th post also!!_

 

Thanks. In your sig I see you have the OPA627 and LT1364. What is the LT1364.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trax416* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks. In your sig I see you have the OPA627 and LT1364. What is the LT1364._

 

It's a stereo op-amp that I'm using on the Zero headphone amplifier section...


----------



## Nedman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jizzzared* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't want to take this thread off topic, but I'm very interested in getting this Zero amp/DAC but have a question if I'll be able to use it with my setup. I have a computer with a chaintech av-710 soundcard. I'm using the optical out to go to my receiver. I have an amp hooked up to the receiver through the L/R preouts where it drives my speakers. I know the Zero requires a digital input. Now here's what I'm unsure of. Can I keep my optical out going to my receiver and then hook up the receiver to the ZERO DAC or is this not possible? Will I be able to have both my receiver/amp (for speakers) and the ZERO DAC/amp hooked up at the same time? Thanks for any replies._

 

You would use the zero in between your receiver and the chaintech.
 e.g. chaintech optical out to the Zero. Then from the RCA outs on your Zero, to your receiver/amp.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Opamp: Operational amplifier - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 Audio-GD opamps are Discrete Opamps, you can find info on this here: Burson Discrete Opamp (Just giving you this site because the info is in english)

 The Burson opamps are the same Audio-GD makes, actualy, Burson just buys them from Audio-GD and sells them for more._

 

Hey there DaMnEd, thanks for that link to Burson Audio, that's a terrific insight into what I am now even more hanging out for, ie two sets of those puppies. 
 Recommended for anyone interested in the HDAMs.


----------



## jizzzared

Quote:


 You would use the zero in between your receiver and the chaintech.
 e.g. chaintech optical out to the Zero. Then from the RCA outs on your Zero, to your receiver/amp. 
 

Thanks Nedman. Does that mean that the DAC from the Zero would be used for my speakers or the DAC in my receiver?? Thanks again.


----------



## Nedman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jizzzared* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Nedman. Does that mean that the DAC from the Zero would be used for my speakers or the DAC in my receiver?? Thanks again._

 

You would be bypassing the inbuilt DAC [digital-to-analog converter] in your receiver, with the Zero DAC.


----------



## sennsay

One of these days do try a Glass toslink, from the research I've done, a glass toslink should match a good coax, and would be considerably less expensive. 

 I’ve seen quite a few “wow's” like yours (toslink > coax) from people going from a basic plastic based toslink to a glass one. DaMnEd

 Yes, I shall hunt one out, though the build quality of the MIT coax is just wonderful! It's true though, I don't want to get much further into spending on add-ons that total more than the cost of the Zero in the first place .................. oh ..... I'm already there ....
 Um, now I don't know what I'm going to do with the LT1028s and LT1057s ..... impulsive lad. Mmmm, another project maybe.


----------



## fugimax

Glass toslink can be found starting at like $10 depending on the length you need ... I'm not sure of what's a good brand or not, though.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

fugimax where can this glass toslink be found? I found some on ebay but it goes for about 30 dollars including shipping.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_fugimax where can this glass toslink be found? I found some on ebay but it goes for about 30 dollars including shipping._

 

30US is about as cheap as you'll find for a glass toslink including shipping...the only other place I can think of off hand is BlueJeans Cable but I don't know if they have a glass toslink....I'll have a look and see...

 A disturbing note with my Zero running SUN in the H/Amp and the reg HDAM in the dac section...once the OPA's burned in I noticed the bass had leaned out considerably...almost like the volt regs could not deliver enough juice to the current hungry SUNs...I don't know for sure if this the case. Alex is redoing his volt reg section in the H/Amp section and I had talked with CC about a sep power supply and volt reg for all 3 HDAMs...anyway when I pulled the SUNs from the H/Amp section and put the LT1364's back in the bass came back to what it was before....weird. Further investigation is needed and Pench and I are in the middle of that right now...

 Alex do you know the max current the stock regs on the H/Amp board can supply ? I think the dual channel SUNs are drawing what...close to 88 ma ? The LT's maybe 1/4 to 1/3 of that...although that may be incorrect. In any case I think the stock Zero can run 3 HDAMs but will need help in some form to deliver the current needed to sound great to those current hungry HDAMs..

 I do have a volt reg board and transformer on the way...so I'll be able to test this theory for real in a couple of weeks. I also wasn't keen on the SUN's voicing...I found I much prefer the neutral presentation of the Earth/LC module. With the heavily modded Zero the voicing of the SUN once it had 75 hours to cook wasn't my cup of tea and found the LT1364's a much better match to my ears, but also the problem talked about earlier in the post.

 Can people post impressions of the SUN module in the DAC section please so we can get a baseline of it's SQ's vs the known Earth/LC HDAM. For now I have to keep my Zero as is for the final leg of tests before the mod kit is released so I can't pop the SUN into the dac section for a little while yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks guys !!!!

 Peete.


----------



## edguetzow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_fugimax where can this glass toslink be found? I found some on ebay but it goes for about 30 dollars including shipping._

 

I purchased this one and have been happy with it and the price:
3 Ft. 3' Glass Toslink Digital Audio Cable

 I believe it was recommended by Penchum in this thread "long ago and in a faraway reply".


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edguetzow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I purchased this one and have been happy with it and the price:
3 Ft. 3' Glass Toslink Digital Audio Cable

 I believe it was recommended by Penchum in this thread "long ago and in a faraway reply". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yup that's a good one...and a great price..!!!!

 Blue Jeans Cable uses Eska POF plastic...here's there explanation/description...(direct quote)

 "Optical Digital Audio Cable: Mitsubishi Eska POF

 When we have a choice, we prefer to run digital audio in coax; it's more robust over distance, and the cable is interchangeable with cable used for certain other applications (e.g., composite video). However, an increasing number of devices are coming onto the market with digital audio available only in optical form, following the TOSlink standard. For these applications, we build our optical cables using the finest high-performance Plastic Optical Fiber (POF), Mitsubishi's ESKA Fiber. While POF is in general rather lossy stuff compared to glass optical fiber, we prefer it for optical digital audio use because it's much more physically durable and because its aperture matches the spec for optical digital audio use, unlike glass fiber which is too small and must be used in bundles. Our fiber is encased first in a tough cladding layer and then, for added durability, a flexible outer PVC jacket similar in texture to the PVC on some of our high-flex Belden cables (e.g. Belden 1505F). In our own usage, we've tested these cables at lengths up to 50 feet and found them to perform perfectly even at those extended distances.
 BJC Digital Optical Cable

 We hand-cut and terminate each of these cables ourselves so we know they're done right and tested before they go out. We think you'll be impressed with their performance; but we also offer a complete, unconditional return privilege. If for any reason--or for no reason--you're not completely, utterly satisfied, just return the cables within 30 days and we'll refund your purchase price in full."

 (end quote)



 Sounds like bunk to me, can anyone confirm the claim of the aperture spec vs bundled glass ?


 Some tips when ordering a glass cable...... get a .5 meter longer than you think you need to avoid any sharp bends with the glass cable otherwise you'll hear a nice spoink...when you bend that glass cable past it's break point...be careful when using a glass cable guys 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_30US is about as cheap as you'll find for a glass toslink including shipping...the only other place I can think of off hand is BlueJeans Cable but I don't know if they have a glass toslink....I'll have a look and see...

 A disturbing note with my Zero running SUN in the H/Amp and the reg HDAM in the dac section...once the OPA's burned in I noticed the bass had leaned out considerably...almost like the volt regs could not deliver enough juice to the current hungry SUNs...I don't know for sure if this the case. Alex is redoing his volt reg section in the H/Amp section and I had talked with CC about a sep power supply and volt reg for all 3 HDAMs...anyway when I pulled the SUNs from the H/Amp section and put the LT1364's back in the bass came back to what it was before....weird. Further investigation is needed and Pench and I are in the middle of that right now...

 Alex do you know the max current the stock regs on the H/Amp board can supply ? I think the dual channel SUNs are drawing what...close to 88 ma ? The LT's maybe 1/4 to 1/3 of that...although that may be incorrect. In any case I think the stock Zero can run 3 HDAMs but will need help in some form to deliver the current needed to sound great to those current hungry HDAMs..

 I do have a volt reg board and transformer on the way...so I'll be able to test this theory for real in a couple of weeks. I also wasn't keen on the SUN's voicing...I found I much prefer the neutral presentation of the Earth/LC module. With the heavily modded Zero the voicing of the SUN once it had 75 hours to cook wasn't my cup of tea and found the LT1364's a much better match to my ears, but also the problem talked about earlier in the post.

 Can people post impressions of the SUN module in the DAC section please so we can get a baseline of it's SQ's vs the known Earth/LC HDAM. For now I have to keep my Zero as is for the final leg of tests before the mod kit is released so I can't pop the SUN into the dac section for a little while yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks guys !!!!

 Peete._

 

Oh... this is a disturbing news for me..... 1364 being better than SUN on amp section....... Well... I will only be able to confirm that by the mid of the month....
 If any workaround is possible on this issue, I would be glad to know...


 Diego


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh... this is a disturbing news for me..... 1364 being better than SUN on amp section....... Well... I will only be able to confirm that by the mid of the month....
 If any workaround is possible on this issue, I would be glad to know...


 Diego_

 

Yeah Diego,

 There is an idea of mine I need to try, hair brained or not 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....so when I find a solution for the HDAMs in the H/Amp section I'll post it right away. Might take a couple of weeks though...my volt reg boards and transformer kit are still in transit and coming by regular post...so that may take awhile. Alex has custom reg boards coming for the H/Amp section from audio-gd (low cost versions) so that might be the other solution. He's going to tackle the stock regs on the H/Amp section while my idea is to power all 3 HDAM's independently of the Zeros regs and power supply section. Which one is the right way to do it remains to be seen er heard 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For all I know both may be it or neither. I do however have confidence in what Alex has in mind and less confidence in my idea. My idea has the potential to cause ground loops which may be difficult to eliminate...I not sure if I can parallel the AC connections straight from the IEC or not although I don't know why it wouldn't work electrically speaking...

 All part of the fun ..discovering what works and what doesn't 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## viscosity

pete, are your OPAs plugged in through extension or soldered to the board?


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Well I need about 8 feet of Toslink but i can't find one of that size. It goes from 6 feet to 12 feet so I guess I will just get 12 feet. Does anyone know if the quality will degrade from 6 to 12 feet?


----------



## gavszero

For all those that use the Zero as a DAC only using the Analog outputs. I received my Buffer 3 from Audio GD today and first impressions was positive. This buffer has further improved the sound quality to a point that you could say your actually listening to a top end CD player in the thousands. My Zero has the Earth as I prefer the neutral sound and if you use the analog outputs for an external head amp lilke the little Dot I hear so much of , you could be impressed with this little box ..

 Burson Audio sells them for $499 Aus but from Audio GD I got mine for $199.50 Delivered . I made some new CAT6 3 Braid interconnects yesterday so they have some more running in as their only 5 hours old ..

 I have to say the Chinese must like bright lights on their HiFi components , this buffer now has a high beam head light on it .. Will have to check whether I can solder in a resistor to soften the light .





 Gavin ..


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Has anyone tried the DAC-100 from audio-gd. I wonder how it compares to the Zero. Hopefully the Zero is better than the DAC-100 since I own a ZERO. Anyways anyone tried the Millett Hybrid amp aka SSHA with the ZERO? Does the Zero built in amp sound better than the Hybrid amp?


----------



## gavszero

123cans;4681173 said:
			
		

> Wouldn't you be better off buying better digital and analog interconnects?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## gavszero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *123cans* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wouldn't you be better off buying better digital and analog interconnects? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 That aside, I don't consider the EARTH a neutral sounding opamp really. If it was, then all audio opamps by different makers (BB, AD, LT, National) would be "wrong" and all in the same way._

 

Nice try 123cans or should I say Andrea ...


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gavszero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For all those that use the Zero as a DAC only using the Analog outputs. I received my Buffer 3 from Audio GD today and first impressions was positive. This buffer has further improved the sound quality to a point that you could say your actually listening to a top end CD player in the thousands. My Zero has the Earth as I prefer the neutral sound and if you use the analog outputs for an external head amp lilke the little Dot I hear so much of , you could be impressed with this little box ..

 Burson Audio sells them for $499 Aus but from Audio GD I got mine for $199.50 Delivered . I made some new CAT6 3 Braid interconnects yesterday so they have some more running in as their only 5 hours old ..

 I have to say the Chinese must like bright lights on their HiFi components , this buffer now has a high beam head light on it .. Will have to check whether I can solder in a resistor to soften the light .





 Gavin .._

 

Great feedback...
 Ins't $200.00 too much for a sub $150 sometimes even sub$100 unit.... ?

 I'm wondering, with all this mods we're putting on Zero, Wouldn't it be worth to buy one already expensive unit, them upgrading Zero ?? Where we will get on this in terms of sound quality and cost ? Will it be worth ?
 This topic became a quest still to end....


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah Diego,

 There is an idea of mine I need to try, hair brained or not 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....so when I find a solution for the HDAMs in the H/Amp section I'll post it right away. Might take a couple of weeks though...my volt reg boards and transformer kit are still in transit and coming by regular post...so that may take awhile. Alex has custom reg boards coming for the H/Amp section from audio-gd (low cost versions) so that might be the other solution. He's going to tackle the stock regs on the H/Amp section while my idea is to power all 3 HDAM's independently of the Zeros regs and power supply section. Which one is the right way to do it remains to be seen er heard 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For all I know both may be it or neither. I do however have confidence in what Alex has in mind and less confidence in my idea. My idea has the potential to cause ground loops which may be difficult to eliminate...I not sure if I can parallel the AC connections straight from the IEC or not although I don't know why it wouldn't work electrically speaking...

 All part of the fun ..discovering what works and what doesn't 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Well... so let's wait and prey.... just kinding.... I guess yone or both of you two will have success.
 Have you realized that what you and penchum say "is good" people go there and buy tons of it ?!?! You guys (and some few others), became like a guru to Zero community!
 Hey, I'm following yah!


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gavszero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice try 123cans or should I say Andrea ...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Oh well.................

 "Oh, it's raining again

 Oh no, my love's at an end

 Oh no, it's raining again

 And you know it's hard to pretend



 Oh no, it's raining again

 Too bad I'm losing a friend

 Oh no, it's raining again

 Oh will my heart ever mend"


----------



## gavszero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great feedback...
 Ins't $200.00 too much for a sub $150 sometimes even sub$100 unit.... ?

 I'm wondering, with all this mods we're putting on Zero, Wouldn't it be worth to buy one already expensive unit, them upgrading Zero ?? Where we will get on this in terms of sound quality and cost ? Will it be worth ?
 This topic became a quest still to end.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thats the great thing about the zero , it actually sounds good stock standard but if you want to go further the cost isn't really that much more to make it into a fantastic unit. To buy say a Benckmark DAC1 for me is $2500 Australian . I would definitely go with the Zero with the mods mentioned here then to spend that sort of dollars on a DAC / Headamp ...

 I can't really think of any other mods I would do to my zero except a volume pot exchange and save up for those Senns HD650's ..





 Gavin ..


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gavszero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thats the great thing about the zero , it actually sounds good stock standard but if you want to go further the cost isn't really that much more to make it into a fantastic unit. To buy say a Benckmark DAC1 for me is $2500 Australian . I would definitely go with the Zero with the mods mentioned here then to spend that sort of dollars on a DAC / Headamp ...

 I can't really think of any other mods I would do to my zero except a volume pot exchange and save up for those Senns HD650's ..





 Gavin .._

 

I guess you're right.... maybe I just don't know how expensive a DAC/Combo with equivalent SQ of Zero w/mods would be.....


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_30US is about as cheap as you'll find for a glass toslink including shipping...the only other place I can think of off hand is BlueJeans Cable but I don't know if they have a glass toslink....I'll have a look and see...

 A disturbing note with my Zero running SUN in the H/Amp and the reg HDAM in the dac section...once the OPA's burned in I noticed the bass had leaned out considerably...almost like the volt regs could not deliver enough juice to the current hungry SUNs...I don't know for sure if this the case. Alex is redoing his volt reg section in the H/Amp section and I had talked with CC about a sep power supply and volt reg for all 3 HDAMs...anyway when I pulled the SUNs from the H/Amp section and put the LT1364's back in the bass came back to what it was before....weird. Further investigation is needed and Pench and I are in the middle of that right now...

 Alex do you know the max current the stock regs on the H/Amp board can supply ? I think the dual channel SUNs are drawing what...close to 88 ma ? The LT's maybe 1/4 to 1/3 of that...although that may be incorrect. In any case I think the stock Zero can run 3 HDAMs but will need help in some form to deliver the current needed to sound great to those current hungry HDAMs..

 I do have a volt reg board and transformer on the way...so I'll be able to test this theory for real in a couple of weeks. I also wasn't keen on the SUN's voicing...I found I much prefer the neutral presentation of the Earth/LC module. With the heavily modded Zero the voicing of the SUN once it had 75 hours to cook wasn't my cup of tea and found the LT1364's a much better match to my ears, but also the problem talked about earlier in the post.

 Can people post impressions of the SUN module in the DAC section please so we can get a baseline of it's SQ's vs the known Earth/LC HDAM. For now I have to keep my Zero as is for the final leg of tests before the mod kit is released so I can't pop the SUN into the dac section for a little while yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Thanks guys !!!!

 Peete._

 

Nice job. I really admire your diy into the volt reg.

 I have emailed audio-gd about the volt reg as well. 

 So far, I found the Sun vocal is slightly more forward and more dynamic. After sometime, I just pop back the OPA Earth.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone tried the DAC-100 from audio-gd. I wonder how it compares to the Zero. Hopefully the Zero is better than the DAC-100 since I own a ZERO. Anyways anyone tried the Millett Hybrid amp aka SSHA with the ZERO? Does the Zero built in amp sound better than the Hybrid amp?_

 

I'm testing/reviewing the DAC100 right now. I have much yet to do with it, but it is a quality DAC for sure. More to follow!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The website "our first generation discrete opamp" actually refers to the HDAM which is marketed under Bursons (they got the rights). 

 OPA-earth is the second generation discrete opamp design with the same circuit as HDAM. Below is the improvement made to the OPA-Earth :

 1. OPA Earth has been improved with new parameters values used in the components. Its output sound quality is more stable across wider supply voltage as compared to HDAM which may deteriote with lower input voltage.

 2. OPA Earth is more stable with better transparency as compared to old design.

 3. Given the change in parameters, the sound quality difference between with and without ground connection is minimized.

 In addition to changes in component values, one distinct difference is the BJT used in the attached photo. When working near its full load condition, Old design (HDAM) is affected more negatively by the sound quality, stability and life value as compared to OPA Earth. OPA Earth, with a bigger capacity BJT, has more capacity to perform._

 

Ok, so they should change the text on that page! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 With the "Earth" being an upgraded module, this is good news all around, don't you think??

 The question on my mind now, is will the "Earth" module benefit from the same "cap" mod as the older version? Thoughts?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_30US is about as cheap as you'll find for a glass toslink including shipping...the only other place I can think of off hand is BlueJeans Cable but I don't know if they have a glass toslink....I'll have a look and see...

 A disturbing note with my Zero running SUN in the H/Amp and the reg HDAM in the dac section...once the OPA's burned in I noticed the bass had leaned out considerably...almost like the volt regs could not deliver enough juice to the current hungry SUNs...I don't know for sure if this the case. Alex is redoing his volt reg section in the H/Amp section and I had talked with CC about a sep power supply and volt reg for all 3 HDAMs...anyway when I pulled the SUNs from the H/Amp section and put the LT1364's back in the bass came back to what it was before....weird. Further investigation is needed and Pench and I are in the middle of that right now...

 Alex do you know the max current the stock regs on the H/Amp board can supply ? I think the dual channel SUNs are drawing what...close to 88 ma ? The LT's maybe 1/4 to 1/3 of that...although that may be incorrect. In any case I think the stock Zero can run 3 HDAMs but will need help in some form to deliver the current needed to sound great to those current hungry HDAMs..

 I do have a volt reg board and transformer on the way...so I'll be able to test this theory for real in a couple of weeks. I also wasn't keen on the SUN's voicing...I found I much prefer the neutral presentation of the Earth/LC module. With the heavily modded Zero the voicing of the SUN once it had 75 hours to cook wasn't my cup of tea and found the LT1364's a much better match to my ears, but also the problem talked about earlier in the post.

 Can people post impressions of the SUN module in the DAC section please so we can get a baseline of it's SQ's vs the known Earth/LC HDAM. For now I have to keep my Zero as is for the final leg of tests before the mod kit is released so I can't pop the SUN into the dac section for a little while yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks guys !!!!

 Peete._

 

Hey PP,

 I've been testing the "Sun's" in the headphone amp section, driven by the "Earth" in the DAC section. But, I should explain why the "Earth" in the DAC section first. The "Earth" is very dynamic and very neutral, maintaining a flat frequency response over the entire spectrum. You couldn't ask for a better DAC amp solution, for so little money. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have over 350 hours on my "Earth" and it is stable and sounding great.

 The "Sun's" have about 200 hours on them, and they appear stable and mature. I did have to re-solder most of the leads; They were dropping off like crazy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 To test the whole setup, I took my stock #2 Zero and installed all 3 modules. "Earth" in the DAC, "Sun's" in the headphone amp. I used my Creative X-FI (Desktop PC) coaxial output to the Zero and plugged in my HD-650's to the Zero's headphone amp.

 The results were not what I expected and caused me to spend another 3 hours cross checking everything to determine exactly what was going on. The "Suns" have 3 distinct humps in their frequency response, when compared to a flat frequency response. One at your typical sub-woofer crossover point, another at lower to mid voice frequencies, and another at high frequencies, near cymbal ride frequencies. Without the ability to measure these with test equipment, I have to generalize their locations and guess at their intensity, which I would say is under 6-8db. I'd have to hook it up directly to my 32 band equalizer to get any closer on this, but didn't have time.

 Please everyone, understand something before passing judgment on the "Sun". It is supposed to be a "fun" sounding module that will enhance most listening situations, and it may indeed do this for some users. That would be great! For me however, it took my quest for a flatter frequency response and messed with it. The overall sound was colorized and did sound this way through my HD-650s. A quick swap out to the LT1364's made for a much better sounding output, with far less colorization.

 With the "Sun's" still in the headphone amp section, I went ahead and tested what I could. The overall output was down by at least 20%. I could actually turn up the volume high enough to drive the headphone amp section into audible distortion! I hadn't expected this, but it makes sense when you consider the lower output. This could also be a symptom of your earlier observations on voltages within the headphone amp section. I hope your testing can determine what is actually happening. For right now, I'd have to say there is a "drain" on resources within the headphone amp section, when running two "Sun" modules.

 I did test the "Sun" in the DAC section, outputting to my MKV headphone amplifier. The same 3 frequency humps were present, verifying my earlier findings. 

 So, to summarize my findings so far; The "Earth" works extremely well in the DAC section, and it has great synergy with the LT1364's in the headphone amp section. The "Sun" modules produce a "colorized" presentation that is not an improvement for me, in my stock Zero. IMHO of course, and YMMV.

 Time permitting, I'm going to test the "Earth" modules in the headphone amp section, and use my first generation HDAM with "cap" mod in the DAC section. I want to determine if the frequency response stays flat and the dynamics carry forward. There will be much to look for, with this setup. This may be days away though.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_snip_

 

My wires for the SUN module also fell off. (Or the first one did, and the other ""fell" off when I used my uber soldering skills on the darn little thing^^)

 Should I try to solder them all back, or is it better to use another type of wire? I rather use a better wire if it's possible.

 What type of wire should I use for best performance?


----------



## ScottieB

Ha - not to sound happy about your problems or anything, but I must say it is comforting to know I'm not the only one who has had to re-solder my lead cables! for a while there it sounded like I was! I can confirm though that once re-attached everything is just fine. Those leads work perfectly, they just don't seem to have been attached all that well.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My wires for the SUN module also fell off. (Or the first one did, and the other ""fell" off when I used my uber soldering skills on the darn little thing^^)

 Should I try to solder them all back, or is it better to use another type of wire? I rather use a better wire if it's possible.

 What type of wire should I use for best performance?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ha - not to sound happy about your problems or anything, but I must say it is comforting to know I'm not the only one who has had to re-solder my lead cables! for a while there it sounded like I was! I can confirm though that once re-attached everything is just fine. Those leads work perfectly, they just don't seem to have been attached all that well._

 

ScottieB is right. Once re-soldered, they seem to stay put just fine. I haven't had any trouble with EMI or other noises, so those leads should be fine, unless you need longer ones.


----------



## dario

Penchum but with the sun in the head apm section, the hd 650 can be driven correctly? The volume is ok?

 And with what standalone head amp, you would comprare the modded zero with sun or earth?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dario* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Penchum but with the sun in the head apm section, the hd 650 can be driven correctly? The volume is ok?

 And with what standalone head amp, you would comprare the modded zero with sun or earth?_

 


 They can be driven, but the bass leaned out, as in, got thin, affecting dynamics etc...a quick swap from SUN's back to LT1364's in the H/Amp section confirmed it last night.

 The SUN modules need more current than they are getting, I almost sure of it, which explains the volume setting (being way higher than normal) and the odd bass behavior. If the SUN module has a tipped up bass section, the bass should have been stronger...not weaker...had me scratching my head for a bit over the weekend until it dawned on me that the modules are not getting enough current in the H/Amp section...which may be wrong, but most likely isn't...it's the only logical explanation I can come up with...

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Great job filling in all the details I missed Pench !!! 

 Keep up the good work !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## dario

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They can be driven, but the bass leaned out, as in, got thin, affecting dynamics etc...a quick swap from SUN's back to LT1364's in the H/Amp section confirmed it last night.

 The SUN modules need more current than they are getting, I almost sure of it, which explains the volume setting (being way higher than normal) and the odd bass behavior. If the SUN module has a tipped up bass section, the bass should have been stronger...not weaker...had me scratching my head for a bit over the weekend until it dawned on me that the modules are not getting enough current in the H/Amp section...which may be wrong, but most likely isn't...it's the only logical explanation I can come up with...

 Peete._

 

Bad news for me Peete, I ordered 3Sun+1Earth and I am selling the 595 to go with the 650, in the next days I will order the zero, but if there are problems with 3 opa is a bad news 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, you think that those problems are resolvable?


----------



## ScottieB

Just want to clarify something - you guys are only running into this power problem with THREE discrete opamps right? Earth in DAC ans 2x Sun in headamp... a single sun in the DAC should draw enough power, no? I haven't noticed any lacking in my output from DAC only with Sun (haven't tried Earth yet).


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *viscosity* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_pete, are your OPAs plugged in through extension or soldered to the board?_

 

Just like everyone else, plugged in where they can be, and an extension used for the right hand H/Amp DIP (until last night).

 When all the latest issues are resolved I plan on using my audio-gd extensions and button the stock lid back on...for now the DAC section HDAM is upright in the DIP and the others are now out of the Zero and replaced with LT1364's until a solution can be found.


 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just want to clarify something - you guys are only running into this power problem with THREE discrete opamps right? Earth in DAC ans 2x Sun in headamp... a single sun in the DAC should draw enough power, no? I haven't noticed any lacking in my output from DAC only with Sun (haven't tried Earth yet)._

 

Yep that's right Scottie...with the reg setup of the Earth/LC HDAM in the dac section and your opamp of choice in the H/Amp, everything sounds great. 

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dario* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Bad news for me Peete, I ordered 3Sun+1Earth and I am selling the 595 to go with the 650, in the next days I will order the zero, but if there are problems with 3 opa is a bad news 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, you think that those problems are resolvable?_

 

All problems are solvable, it's the cost that is the major question mark...hopefully a cheap solution will be found.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

dario, moving from the 595 to the 650 is a wonderful move...expensive but your gonna love those cans. I love mine and I'm really picky about SQ.

 Peete.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_dario, moving from the 595 to the 650 is a wonderful move...expensive but your gonna love those cans. I love mine and I'm really picky about SQ.

 Peete._

 

I still think mine 650 is a littler harsh on treble.... I don't know how many hours it has... maybe 100... 120 hours as I never burned it in again since my distortion problem (which never showed up again btw).....
 I'll try moving back from stock zero optical cable to my DIY RCA (75 ohms antenna cable)....
 Maybe this harsh thing could be cause by my supposed dirty energy line....


----------



## dario

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_dario, moving from the 595 to the 650 is a wonderful move...expensive but your gonna love those cans. I love mine and I'm really picky about SQ.

 Peete._

 

Right Peete, I know that, I found a good opportunity to take the 650 at a good price and sell my 595 to a boy who wants try quality headphone (and I think are very good starting headphone) than the purchase become possible with the opa and (next) zero purchase...

 Now I hope that is possible to resolve the energy supply problem...would be a waste not use a full audio-gd opa configuration that I have ordererd from some days...*also becouse I don't see much alternatives to the zero out there with same quality\price ratio...or I am wrong?*

 And absolutely I will cannot buy a step up (over modded zero) separate amp for much time with all those purchases...but in your opinion how compare the amp section of the modded zero with other dedicated amp?

 Thanks Peete for the costant updates


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dario* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Right Peete, I know that, I found a good opportunity to take the 650 at a good price and sell my 595 to a boy who wants try quality headphone (and I think are very good starting headphone) than the purchase become possible with the opa and (next) zero purchase...

 Now I hope that is possible to resolve the energy supply problem...would be a waste not use a full audio-gd opa configuration that I have ordererd from some days...*also becouse I don't see much alternatives to the zero out there with same quality\price ratio...or I am wrong?*

 And absolutely I will cannot buy a step up (over modded zero) separate amp for much time with all those purchases...but in your opinion how compare the amp section of the modded zero with other dedicated amp?

 Thanks Peete for the costant updates 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The price vs performance ratio of the Zero can't be duplicated. With the mod Pench and I have done the SQ is outstanding with a single HDAM and the LT1364's. I too hope an all HDAM Zero is possible ...but we have been lucky up till now with no major issues...problems always crop up sooner or later the further away from original design spec you get without making very costly and complicated upgrades...when it comes to that your better off buying a better base DAC/AMP at that point to tweak...I would say the current Zero is the best bang for buck budget DAC/Amp there is ...

 Your welcome dario (about the updates). I feel responsible to you guys for getting things right....

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I still think mine 650 is a littler harsh on treble.... I don't know how many hours it has... maybe 100... 120 hours as I never burned it in again since my distortion problem (which never showed up again btw).....
 I'll try moving back from stock zero optical cable to my DIY RCA (75 ohms antenna cable)....
 Maybe this harsh thing could be cause by my supposed dirty energy line.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Once you hit 350 hours they relax and open up, that treble harshness disappears entirely....just keep giving them a quality signal Diego...they will change for the better..

 Peete.


----------



## dario

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The price vs performance ratio of the Zero can't be duplicated. With the mod Pench and I have done the SQ is outstanding with a single HDAM and the LT1364's. I too hope an all HDAM Zero is possible ...but we have been lucky up till now with no major issues...problems always crop up sooner or later the further away from original design spec you get without making very costly and complicated upgrades...when it comes to that your better off buying a better base DAC/AMP at that point to tweak...I would say the current Zero is the best bang for buck budget DAC/Amp there is ...

 Your welcome dario (about the updates). I feel responsible to you guys for getting things right....

 Peete._

 

As I think...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ok, thanks for all


----------



## ScottieB

The more my SUN (in the DAC) burns in, the better it sounds. I'm still hearing new details I never noticed before. Few more days and I'll see what the Earth has to offer...


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Please everyone, understand something before passing judgment on the "Sun". It is supposed to be a "fun" sounding module that will enhance most listening situations, and it may indeed do this for some users. That would be great! For me however, it took my quest for a flatter frequency response and messed with it. The overall sound was colorized and did sound this way through my HD-650s. A quick swap out to the LT1364's made for a much better sounding output, with far less colorization._

 

This is exactly my findings, too. I initially loved the forward nature of the Sun, but once I got my Stax rig, I found myself growing tired of the pronounced treble.

 I've since moved over to the Earth. It's taking some time for my ears to adjust to it's laid-back nature. The Sun is far more lively, but it can grow tiring with the wrong gear...

 ~Phewl.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is exactly my findings, too. I initially loved the forward nature of the Sun, but once I got my Stax rig, I found myself growing tired of the pronounced treble.

 I've since moved over to the Earth. It's taking some time for my ears to adjust to it's laid-back nature. The Sun is far more lively, but it can grow tiring with the wrong gear...

 ~Phewl._

 

This makes a lot of sense. I really really like the Sun with my Senns (in DAC only, going out to my LD MKIII), which are "dark" cans to begin with. My Grados, though don't sound nearly as fun with it. I may just be "growing out" of them, or maybe they will pair better with the Earth. I really don't want to part with them, as they were the first headphones that opened my ears to the possibilities of good headphones, but I could use the $$ from a nice sale. Guess I'll give them until I try out the Earth, but the Senns just seem so much more "refined" to my ear. The Sun really brought out a lot of details they had been lacking, and made them a touch brighter and more forward (although not NEARLY as bright and forward as the Grados are with just about any source).


----------



## viscosity

so i guess the general consensus is that opa-sun is 'brighter'; then the opa-earth (which makes cosmological sense i suppose... ) if so, using the earth would make better sense with AKG k701 as they are bright as is..

 my modules came today but unfortunately my campus mail service is closed now... cant wait for tomorrow to try them outt


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is exactly my findings, too. I initially loved the forward nature of the Sun, but once I got my Stax rig, I found myself growing tired of the pronounced treble.

 I've since moved over to the Earth. It's taking some time for my ears to adjust to it's laid-back nature. The Sun is far more lively, but it can grow tiring with the wrong gear...

 ~Phewl._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This makes a lot of sense. I really really like the Sun with my Senns (in DAC only, going out to my LD MKIII), which are "dark" cans to begin with. My Grados, though don't sound nearly as fun with it. I may just be "growing out" of them, or maybe they will pair better with the Earth. I really don't want to part with them, as they were the first headphones that opened my ears to the possibilities of good headphones, but I could use the $$ from a nice sale. Guess I'll give them until I try out the Earth, but the Senns just seem so much more "refined" to my ear. The Sun really brought out a lot of details they had been lacking, and made them a touch brighter and more forward (although not NEARLY as bright and forward as the Grados are with just about any source)._

 

This info may help you guys a little. 

 The "Earth" module does change for the better, with a good (long) burn-in. The "Sun" module changes only slightly with a good (long) burn-in. With both of these, I would say "don't do any critical listening until you reach 250 hours minimum." Both types became very stable after hitting that 250(ish) hour mark.

 Since the "earth" changes the most, it doesn't sound so hot right away, like the "sun" does. Its really nothing to worry about, just do the time and have fun listening. Since you both are using the Zero to drive another amp, I feel confident that the "earth" module will impress you after it has matured. I drove my MKV SS headphone amp, and my MKIVse Tube headphone amp last night with the "earth" in the DAC, and it was fantastic with both amps!


----------



## dario

Peete but how do you rate in comparison to standalone amp the head amp section of a modded zero?


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey PP,

 I've been testing the "Sun's" in the headphone amp section, driven by the "Earth" in the DAC section. But, I should explain why the "Earth" in the DAC section first. The "Earth" is very dynamic and very neutral, maintaining a flat frequency response over the entire spectrum. You couldn't ask for a better DAC amp solution, for so little money. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have over 350 hours on my "Earth" and it is stable and sounding great.

 The "Sun's" have about 200 hours on them, and they appear stable and mature. I did have to re-solder most of the leads; They were dropping off like crazy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 To test the whole setup, I took my stock #2 Zero and installed all 3 modules. "Earth" in the DAC, "Sun's" in the headphone amp. I used my Creative X-FI (Desktop PC) coaxial output to the Zero and plugged in my HD-650's to the Zero's headphone amp.

 The results were not what I expected and caused me to spend another 3 hours cross checking everything to determine exactly what was going on. The "Suns" have 3 distinct humps in their frequency response, when compared to a flat frequency response. One at your typical sub-woofer crossover point, another at lower to mid voice frequencies, and another at high frequencies, near cymbal ride frequencies. Without the ability to measure these with test equipment, I have to generalize their locations and guess at their intensity, which I would say is under 6-8db. I'd have to hook it up directly to my 32 band equalizer to get any closer on this, but didn't have time.

 Please everyone, understand something before passing judgment on the "Sun". It is supposed to be a "fun" sounding module that will enhance most listening situations, and it may indeed do this for some users. That would be great! For me however, it took my quest for a flatter frequency response and messed with it. The overall sound was colorized and did sound this way through my HD-650s. A quick swap out to the LT1364's made for a much better sounding output, with far less colorization.

 With the "Sun's" still in the headphone amp section, I went ahead and tested what I could. The overall output was down by at least 20%. I could actually turn up the volume high enough to drive the headphone amp section into audible distortion! I hadn't expected this, but it makes sense when you consider the lower output. This could also be a symptom of your earlier observations on voltages within the headphone amp section. I hope your testing can determine what is actually happening. For right now, I'd have to say there is a "drain" on resources within the headphone amp section, when running two "Sun" modules.

 I did test the "Sun" in the DAC section, outputting to my MKV headphone amplifier. The same 3 frequency humps were present, verifying my earlier findings. 

 So, to summarize my findings so far; The "Earth" works extremely well in the DAC section, and it has great synergy with the LT1364's in the headphone amp section. The "Sun" modules produce a "colorized" presentation that is not an improvement for me, in my stock Zero. IMHO of course, and YMMV.

 Time permitting, I'm going to test the "Earth" modules in the headphone amp section, and use my first generation HDAM with "cap" mod in the DAC section. I want to determine if the frequency response stays flat and the dynamics carry forward. There will be much to look for, with this setup. This may be days away though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Wow, good work, Penchum. This is very valuable to me, as my HDAMs still haven't turned up and so I have been playing around with the 627s/1364s/OPA2604 to find a balance I am happy with, using the Senn 555s mostly. These cans are very open and a bit forward in the mids (no doubt many would love this!) but using the 627s in the DAC is simply too much of a good thing with the 1364s in KHA; too forward, too bright, extremely clean while losing weight in the bass. So, I've gone back to the stock op-amps in the Zero with a 1364 in KHA and it really is rather good. That 2604 truly is a nicely balanced op-amp. I'm now warming up the second 1364 in the DAC - head amp is stock to see if I can pass a crisper signal into it. 
 I tried the 627/1364 combo in the Zero for a while but the outcome was not good (actually, I was most surprised, after all the good reports on this combo!) and simply didn't work with the Senn 555s. Both the 627s and the 1364s have about 70 hours on them, is this part of my problem that they simply don't have enough burn-in hours yet? I know the Senn 600/650s are smoother and warmer cans, maybe I just haven't found the best match yet and the Earth HDAM may be the linchpin, eventually. 
 One thing I do know now, those 2604s are pretty fine and the 1364 (in KHA) is quite wonderful! Such precision and 3D openness.
 Thoughts please, Sir Pench, your wisdom and experience is appreciated.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, good work, Penchum. This is very valuable to me, as my HDAMs still haven't turned up and so I have been playing around with the 627s/1364s/OPA2604 to find a balance I am happy with, using the Senn 555s mostly. These cans are very open and a bit forward in the mids (no doubt many would love this!) but using the 627s in the DAC is simply too much of a good thing with the 1364s in KHA; too forward, too bright, extremely clean while losing weight in the bass. So, I've gone back to the stock op-amps in the Zero with a 1364 in KHA and it really is rather good. That 2604 truly is a nicely balanced op-amp. I'm now warming up the second 1364 in the DAC - head amp is stock to see if I can pass a crisper signal into it. 
 I tried the 627/1364 combo in the Zero for a while but the outcome was not good (actually, I was most surprised, after all the good reports on this combo!) and simply didn't work with the Senn 555s. Both the 627s and the 1364s have about 70 hours on them, is this part of my problem that they simply don't have enough burn-in hours yet? I know the Senn 600/650s are smoother and warmer cans, maybe I just haven't found the best match yet and the Earth HDAM may be the linchpin, eventually. 
 One thing I do know now, those 2604s are pretty fine and the 1364 (in KHA) is quite wonderful! Such precision and 3D openness.
 Thoughts please, Sir Pench, your wisdom and experience is appreciated. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 It is most likely the model headphones you have. Also, if your Zero hasn't hit the 100 hour mark yet, it is still maturing. Once you get the "Earth" on board and matured, you'll know if a change in headphones is in your future. Many of us swear by our HD-650's and their excellent sound. I think PP even sleeps with his on! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 He is so dedicated!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just take naps with mine!!


----------



## shaddix

I am thinking of getting some 650s, i have 595s right now, I read that the 650s need to be balanced and they get a lot better. I really prefer the headphones to be neutral and transparent which is why I picked 595s. But sorry that's a bit off topic. 

 What I'm really posting about is Lawrence's hdam module, I saw where pete said they sound the same, but has anyone else have experience with Lawrence's and opa-earth that can expound at all?

 edit: does this zero amp with the earth/1364 do anything to balance the 650s out?


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is most likely the model headphones you have. Also, if your Zero hasn't hit the 100 hour mark yet, it is still maturing. Once you get the "Earth" on board and matured, you'll know if a change in headphones is in your future. Many of us swear by our HD-650's and their excellent sound. I think PP even sleeps with his on! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 He is so dedicated!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just take naps with mine!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Haha! Such sweet boys! My Zero is just coming up to the 100 hr mark sometime today. I would probably love some Senn600/650s, I have lived with the Senn sound for ... um ... 18 years, the price in NZ is kinda horrific, even the Denon AH-D1001s new price is $400!! The Senn HD555s are 'only' $250, why the huge price disparity I can only guess as to the importers whims. I am researching 600/650 prices now, though it would probably work out better for me to purchase from the US or elsewhere, I think the 650s are well over the $1000 mark here. The Denon 5000s are $1500! Ultimately, I'll likely just get a pair anyway as it doesn't make sense to skimp when cans are my main doorway into the music I love. 
 BTW, the 1364 ahead of the stock 5532s in the amp are a very good balance match and quite tuneful! Though, I still find the 5532s are a bit lazy and opaque and lacking in the stage width that comes so effortlessly from KHA, whether via the tube pre-amp or direct to the amp and there is little sign of a midrange edge on Eva Cassidy's potent voice.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dario* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Peete but how do you rate in comparison to standalone amp the head amp section of a modded zero?_

 

It's not bad ....I use it at the cottage with an older modified HK HD720 CDP as source, but at home the tube amp is king...the built in amp in the Zero can't compare to a good standalone although it will be better than most portables....I find it adequate as mentioned earlier when at the cottage...

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Haha! Such sweet boys! My Zero is just coming up to the 100 hr mark sometime today. I would probably love some Senn600/650s, I have lived with the Senn sound for ... um ... 18 years, the price in NZ is kinda horrific, even the Denon AH-D1001s new price is $400!! The Senn HD555s are 'only' $250, why the huge price disparity I can only guess as to the importers whims. I am researching 600/650 prices now, though it would probably work out better for me to purchase from the US or elsewhere, I think the 650s are well over the $1000 mark here. The Denon 5000s are $1500! Ultimately, I'll likely just get a pair anyway as it doesn't make sense to skimp when cans are my main doorway into the music I love. 
 BTW, the 1364 ahead of the stock 5532s in the amp are a very good balance match and quite tuneful! Though, I still find the 5532s are a bit lazy and opaque and lacking in the stage width that comes so effortlessly from KHA, whether via the tube pre-amp or direct to the amp and there is little sign of a midrange edge on Eva Cassidy's potent voice._

 

S-Man yeah I feel for you guys on the other side of the world...prices are crazy....you might want to do what I did, buy a set second hand from a fellow Head Fi member....I paid 290US for mine and they were mint with 50 hours on them. Used is a way around those crazy prices....

 Peete.

 PS Not only have I slept with the 650's on... Pench...I asked them to go to my parents house for dinner (that's a 5 hour flight and 2 hour drive from my place)...I think I'm going to pop the question LOL....


----------



## sennsay

Ok, a question for the lads, I am now seriously thinking of ordering a set of the top Senns, either 600 or 650. Some people, and I've seen a review or two from studio engineers that prefer the more 'accurate' 600s than the 650s. Can I have a couple more opinions please on the merits of both of them? Also, there are the AKG 701s and Denon 2000/5000 to consider. From what I have read so much of so far, the 'darker' Senns seem to match the more brightly lit 627s etc, whereas the 555s don't need any more of that. Sorry to be off the Zero topic for a moment, but I'm banking on the stupendous dedication of PP and Pench, are you awake over there still? Many thanks for any clarification!

 In addition, I have spotted a new set on Amazon for a good price, though I would be happy to hear from any Head-Fiers that have a set for sale, must be super nick though.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, a question for the lads, I am now seriously thinking of ordering a set of the top Senns, either 600 or 650. Some people, and I've seen a review or two from studio engineers that prefer the more 'accurate' 600s than the 650s. Can I have a couple more opinions please on the merits of both of them? Also, there are the AKG 701s and Denon 2000/5000 to consider. From what I have read so much of so far, the 'darker' Senns seem to match the more brightly lit 627s etc, whereas the 555s don't need any more of that. Sorry to be off the Zero topic for a moment, but I'm banking on the stupendous dedication of PP and Pench, are you awake over there still? Many thanks for any clarification!

 In addition, I have spotted a new set on Amazon for a good price, though I would be happy to hear from any Head-Fiers that have a set for sale, must be super nick though._

 

Depends on your music tastes....by far my vote goes to the 650's. Pench has both and at one time had all three......he has 600's and 650's now...I'll let him elaborate on the two since I can only say anything about the 650's.

 They can be sweet and delicate with the right source feeding them....I don't find mine dark at all...but I've re-cabled mine with stranded silver wire so I'm not exactly sporting a stock set...that may have made the difference. I didn't lose any of the bottom end when I did so...so it's win win...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I sure that helped......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sorry about your wallet....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete


 PS Just finished the Alps pot swap....nice pot...now I need a better and bigger knob...a nice heavy brass bugger in silver or black...


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Depends on your music tastes....by far my vote goes to the 650's. Pench has both and at one time had all three......he has 600's and 650's now...I'll let him elaborate on the two since I can only say anything about the 650's.

 They can be sweet and delicate with the right source feeding them....I don't find mine dark at all...but I've re-cabled mine with stranded silver wire so I'm not exactly sporting a stock set...that may have made the difference. I didn't lose any of the bottom end when I did so...so it's win win...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I sure that helped......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sorry about your wallet....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete


 PS Just finished the Alps pot swap....nice pot...now I need a better and bigger knob...a nice heavy brass bugger in silver or black..._

 


 Thanks for that Peete, I think that will be my move. What they said on HeadRoom, ".. shell out big and cry once". Yeah. Found a NZ price of $750, way cheaper than the $1000 I've been quoted as normal retail. However, I think I'll go offshore, I've never had any problems buying off Amazon. 
 My HDAMs are on the wing, a few delays there I think! Glad you like the pot, I've been expecting mine all week.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_S-Man yeah I feel for you guys on the other side of the world...prices are crazy....you might want to do what I did, buy a set second hand from a fellow Head Fi member....I paid 290US for mine and they were mint with 50 hours on them. Used is a way around those crazy prices....

 Peete.

 PS Not only have I slept with the 650's on... Pench...I asked them to go to my parents house for dinner (that's a 5 hour flight and 2 hour drive from my place)...I think I'm going to pop the question LOL...._

 

Hey PP congratulations in advance


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for that Peete, I think that will be my move. What they said on HeadRoom, ".. shell out big and cry once". Yeah. Found a NZ price of $750, way cheaper than the $1000 I've been quoted as normal retail. However, I think I'll go offshore, I've never had any problems buying off Amazon. 
 My HDAMs are on the wing, a few delays there I think! Glad you like the pot, I've been expecting mine all week. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

$750 is cheap.... Here in Brazil it ranges from $1000 one time payment cash to $1250 on credit.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I was lucky to get mine from a very n ice guy who became my friend for just $500


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey PP congratulations in advance 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Damn it...there were conditions like always store me in my box, keep me clean...keep the kids away from me...nag nag nag....LOL...






 I'm such a nut.....

 Heres an interesting device for those that are having transformer humming issues and are concerned about crappy power...dcV on the AC line and other crud....

 Heres a link to it. This thing works. I have something similar on my Ah Njoe Tjoeb 4000 CDP except they call it an AC noise killer...

Blokker Power Supply Filter - (eBay.ca item 250116251769 end time 07-Sep-08 03:50:13 EDT)

 For 30 US it's a way better investment for the Zero than a 200 US line conditioner...imo of course.

 Peete.

 PS The dang 650's want to be married in Germany...figures...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 PPS My Welborne labs voltage regulators (15V DC) and 1 A transformer should be here next week sometime if customs doesn't screw things up....I'm going to power three Earth HDAMs in the Zero with there own regs and transformer...75US including shipping so it's not cheap unfortunately. That's Peete for you...going the extra mile for all your Zero needs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 LOL..makes no sense to spend this money...but I want to see if this is the cure for 3 HDAM config.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Peete would that blokker be better than a good power line?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Peete would that blokker be better than a good power line?_

 



 Hard to say for sure...but the price is certainly far lower than the cheapest decent line conditioner I can think of. It should be a very good tweak...the idea behind it is sound...and a similar AC noise killer in my ref CDP works like a charm..

 Peete.


----------



## fugimax

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hard to say for sure...but the price is certainly far lower than the cheapest decent line conditioner I can think of. It should be a very good tweak...the idea behind it is sound...and a similar AC noise killer in my ref CDP works like a charm..

 Peete._

 

I'm confused on exactly how this would end up being wired. You cut the neutral / primary wires and insert the blokker in there?

 Also, do you think there's a place for this to sit / mount in the Zero case?


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Yea I am confused like fugimax. First I am going to try a good power cable then if that doesn't show an improvement then I will get this "blokker."


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, a question for the lads, I am now seriously thinking of ordering a set of the top Senns, either 600 or 650. Some people, and I've seen a review or two from studio engineers that prefer the more 'accurate' 600s than the 650s. Can I have a couple more opinions please on the merits of both of them? Also, there are the AKG 701s and Denon 2000/5000 to consider. From what I have read so much of so far, the 'darker' Senns seem to match the more brightly lit 627s etc, whereas the 555s don't need any more of that. Sorry to be off the Zero topic for a moment, but I'm banking on the stupendous dedication of PP and Pench, are you awake over there still? Many thanks for any clarification!

 In addition, I have spotted a new set on Amazon for a good price, though I would be happy to hear from any Head-Fiers that have a set for sale, must be super nick though._

 

I had HD650 and now have HD600.

 *Both of them have a bit loose bass with the Zero amp. It's not enough to tighten them up to the level of my other cans. The HD650 had more of the loose bass, thus, I like HD600 bass better.

 *HD650 had just a tad less treble. The difference is not huge. The HD600 have a more silvery, to me uncoloured treble than the HD650. I much prefer the HD600 treble over the HD650 treble.

 *I feel that the mids of the HD600 is less coloured than the HD650. The HD650 mids were warm, while the HD600 mids feel less coloured and more transparent. To me, the HD600 mids are almost completely natural. The only little thing is a slight boost in the lower mids, which can make male voices sound just a little bit to full, but otherwise they are VERY natural.

 Over all, the HD600 is the most natural headphone I've heard yet. More natural than the DT880 to my ears.

 So, with the Zero amp I like the HD600 more than the HD650. I have no idea how they would compare if amped by a good Sennheiser amp (something like DV332 or similar).



 I did not have them at the same time unfortunately, so the HD650 impressions are from memory.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had HD650 and now have HD600.

 *Both of them have a bit loose bass with the Zero amp. It's not enough to tighten them up to the level of my other cans. The HD650 had more of the loose bass, thus, I like HD600 bass better.

 *HD650 had just a tad less treble. The difference is not huge. The HD600 have a more silvery, to me uncoloured treble than the HD650. I much prefer the HD600 treble over the HD650 treble.

 *I feel that the mids of the HD600 is less coloured than the HD650. The HD650 mids were warm, while the HD600 mids feel less coloured and more transparent. To me, the HD600 mids are almost completely natural. The only little thing is a slight boost in the lower mids, which can make male voices sound just a little bit to full, but otherwise they are VERY natural.

 Over all, the HD600 is the most natural headphone I've heard yet. More natural than the DT880 to my ears.

 So, with the Zero amp I like the HD600 more than the HD650. I have no idea how they would compare if amped by a good Sennheiser amp (something like DV332 or similar).



 I did not have them at the same time unfortunately, so the HD650 impressions are from memory._

 


 Hmm, thanks for the feedback, Henmyr, unfortunately where I live there is a lack of top end cans to get to hear, so I'm going to have to trust my own judgement and experience. I actually find the Zero's amp section a bit full and soft, though much less so with the 1364s in place. Whether 600 or 650, either will be a big advance on the 540Rs I've had for 18 years! Even the 555s show them up, though they're still not half bad (540Rs. In fact that goes for the 555s too). 
 My KHA (kit head amp) has wickedly fast and open bass, so the 650s may be quite at home here. Also, KHA does have a tendency to being a tad lean in the mids, though extremely open and focused. I've found some new 650s for $326USD and others around that price. Love the Zero's DAC though! Sounds very good with the 1364 in that position.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PPS My Welborne labs voltage regulators (15V DC) and 1 A transformer should be here next week sometime if customs doesn't screw things up....I'm going to power three Earth HDAMs in the Zero with there own regs and transformer...75US including shipping so it's not cheap unfortunately. That's Peete for you...going the extra mile for all your Zero needs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 LOL..makes no sense to spend this money...but I want to see if this is the cure for 3 HDAM config._

 

U are the most generous guy around. Me too. I spend a lot of $$$ to be the first to try things.

 I have some info on the Power Supply issues with 3 OPA. be back.


----------



## ccschua

Power supply issues with 3 OPA.

 Well the rating on zero dac is only 10W (read the specs behind the dac).

 That means only about 100MA is available at about 110V.

 Now OPA Earth and 2*Sun add up to 56+2*44 = 144mA say 130mA (not fully loaded all the time)

 On top of 130mA, there is DAC, receiver and other power supply requirement. 

 This will strain the tranny to work, though it will not spoil the tranny. 

 For power supply, typically u need to have 3-4 times the headroom to have good stable sound quality.

 At this high current demand, if the voltage regulator (3 pin) is premium grade, it can still give good sound. What if the regulator is just the normal grade !

 Hope to hear PP mod of the power supply. 1A = 1000mA would be great for the power hungry OPA.

 Furthermore different voltage regulator also can affect the sound quality. Some diy also change the OPA connector with 4N and it gives good sound as well.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Depends on your music tastes....by far my vote goes to the 650's. Pench has both and at one time had all three......he has 600's and 650's now...I'll let him elaborate on the two since I can only say anything about the 650's.

 They can be sweet and delicate with the right source feeding them....I don't find mine dark at all...but I've re-cabled mine with stranded silver wire so I'm not exactly sporting a stock set...that may have made the difference. I didn't lose any of the bottom end when I did so...so it's win win...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I sure that helped......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sorry about your wallet....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete


 PS Just finished the Alps pot swap....nice pot...now I need a better and bigger knob...a nice heavy brass bugger in silver or black..._

 


 It's true. I do have both, and I enjoy both for their differences. My preference is to listen to the HD-650s. After they mature, I don't think there is a nicer audiophile headphone out there. The HD-600s are more forward and brighter, which works great for solid state amps. I will use them frequently with my MKV amp. It is nice to be able to choose which I want to use. As far as usage goes, I'd say I use the HD-650s 80% and the HD-600s 20% of the time. For the HD-600s, this is just enough to warrant keeping them.

 Things have changed a little for me here in my office/lab. Every amp I own voices well with both HD-650s and HD-600s, so I take advantage of that. I do find the HD-650s every bit as revealing, dynamic and clear as the HD-600s, so nothing is lost by listening to either one. There is just something special about the final sound of the HD-650s. I never get tired of listening to them, ever. That one little fact makes them my favorite for recommendations.


----------



## dario

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Power supply issues with 3 OPA.

 Well the rating on zero dac is only 10W (read the specs behind the dac).

 That means only about 100MA is available at about 110V.

 Now OPA Earth and 2*Sun add up to 56+2*44 = 144mA say 130mA (not fully loaded all the time)

 On top of 130mA, there is DAC, receiver and other power supply requirement. 

 This will strain the tranny to work, though it will not spoil the tranny. 

 For power supply, typically u need to have 3-4 times the headroom to have good stable sound quality.

 At this high current demand, if the voltage regulator (3 pin) is premium grade, it can still give good sound. What if the regulator is just the normal grade !

 Hope to hear PP mod of the power supply. 1A = 1000mA would be great for the power hungry OPA.

 Furthermore different voltage regulator also can affect the sound quality. Some diy also change the OPA connector with 4N and it gives good sound as well._

 

But how much cost the power supply? And it can be changed "plug and play"?

 I think also the if we know how much power require the opa627 and lt1364 we would do a much more realistic analysis, becouse if the opa rate is 15v they would require a maximum of:
 0,66W for the Sun
 0,84W for the Earth
 If we know how are hungry the "standard" opa we can understand how much is the difference...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Power supply issues with 3 OPA.

 Well the rating on zero dac is only 10W (read the specs behind the dac).

 That means only about 100MA is available at about 110V.

 Now OPA Earth and 2*Sun add up to 56+2*44 = 144mA say 130mA (not fully loaded all the time)

 On top of 130mA, there is DAC, receiver and other power supply requirement. 

 This will strain the tranny to work, though it will not spoil the tranny. 

 For power supply, typically u need to have 3-4 times the headroom to have good stable sound quality.

 At this high current demand, if the voltage regulator (3 pin) is premium grade, it can still give good sound. What if the regulator is just the normal grade !

 Hope to hear PP mod of the power supply. 1A = 1000mA would be great for the power hungry OPA.

 Furthermore different voltage regulator also can affect the sound quality. Some diy also change the OPA connector with 4N and it gives good sound as well._

 

Excellent job with this info...that pretty much confirms my suspicions CC. 

 I've been talking back and forth with Lawrence about this very subject all morning and he has suggested hi speed schotky (SP?) voltage regs...but I was/am concerned the stock transformer doesn't have the heft (in current) to deliver what the 3 HDAMs really need. The volt reg board and 1 amp transformer are on the way as we speak...in addition to that I have requested from LC additional part numbers for all 8 stock volt regs on the stock pcbs of the Zero...For a few bucks more it can't hurt to go to hi speed regs anyway...I highly doubt it will allow the 3 HDAM equipped Zero to function at it's best...but you never know. I will also ask what max rating the stock toroid delivers (at CC's preferred loading %) in case it's more than 100VA. I'm hoping it's 200VA.... but I doubt it...otherwise the bass wouldn't have leaned out, SQ suffered like it did (when 3 HDAMs are installed).

 If the number is 100VA as CC suggests (and it most likely is) then a separate reg/transformer set up will be the cure for the 3 HDAM Zero config...I hope 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Between CC,Alex, Pench and I we'll get this all figured out guys 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fugimax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm confused on exactly how this would end up being wired. You cut the neutral / primary wires and insert the blokker in there?

 Also, do you think there's a place for this to sit / mount in the Zero case?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yea I am confused like fugimax. First I am going to try a good power cable then if that doesn't show an improvement then I will get this "blokker."_

 



 Guys it simply connects off the IEC Neutral connection (in between the N terminal and the neutral wire to the toroid primary inside the Zero) in series (google series connections) as follows......here's the direct quote,

 Just connect the red wire in series with the neutral of your mains supply, blue wire to transformer primary side and kill DCv dead. Also removes destructive harmonic content created by other electrical devices loading your power matrix. Most AC supply has some DC offset present. DC is the enemy, robbing a power transformer of efficiency and often making it hum. Blok it, and the transformer can do its job, Sound improvement can be major depending on your line conditions.Small enough to fit in most chassis. 5cm x 5cm x 2.4cm. 3A/240V. 


 It sounds far more complicated than it is. You could even do this outside the chassis as long as the wiring is where specified. It should fit in beside the toroid though quite easily. The 240V 3A rating makes it suitable for worldwide use.

 Peete.


----------



## RedSky0

This may not be the best place to ask, but is there a guide out there to op-amp rolling? I'm not quite certain what it physically involves, and how technical it is. Sorry if someone's asked this question already, but going through 600+ pages is impossible.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dario* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But how much cost the power supply? And it can be changed "plug and play"?

 I think also the if we know how much power require the opa627 and lt1364 we would do a much more realistic analysis, becouse if the opa rate is 15v they would require a maximum of:
 0,66W for the Sun
 0,84W for the Earth
 If we know how are hungry the "standard" opa we can understand how much is the difference..._

 

Unfortunately this modification comes under intermediate to expert level on the difficulty scale...not because it's actually hard to wire up and solder in...because you need to know what your doing and have a digital multimeter and other tools necessary to do the job properly...which means measuring things with lethal voltage levels applied.....not safe in other words for a beginner who has trouble finding the opamp socket.. ( I don't mean anyone in particular...it's just an example).

 The wattage isn't the real concern...it's the current delivery capability of the stock toroid and volt regs...they are close to max ratings with 1 HDAM in the dac section and LT1364's in the H/Amp section. 

 If I had to guess what the draw of the stock Head Fi deal opamps are I'd say no more than 50 - 60 ma in total...if that.


 Once I get my reg/transformer kit and install it I'll post pics through Pench and instructions how I did it for anyone else that want to try it. The cost from Welborne labs for this kit (15 V DC @ 1 Amp ) is 75US including shipping....so it's not cheap. The actual volt reg board itself is rated to handle a maximum of 3A so it's got tons of headroom to run 3 HDAMs easily....The percentages work out to 1/9 th loading on the 1 amp transformer and about 1/40 th load on the reg board max capacity. If I have made a mistake...please correct me...it's off the top of my pointy , cement filled head 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If a person were to build the reg from scratch and source the transformer I'm sure that cost would drop to 30US or less...but that is beyond my abilities at the moment (give me a few months 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


 Peete.


----------



## ccschua

Now the OPA works in +15 and -15, i.e. 30V dc.

 multiplying the 30 by 130mA, we have, 4W for the OPA alone.

 Beside OPA, there is DAC , receiver chip, logic circuit, relay (each relay 50mA !), other little component that drains power as heat.

 So it looks like 3*OPA is more or less confirmed to drain the the tranny hard.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RedSky0* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This may not be the best place to ask, but is there a guide out there to op-amp rolling? I'm not quite certain what it physically involves, and how technical it is. Sorry if someone's asked this question already, but going through 600+ pages is impossible._

 


 google "opamp rolling"...I'm sure that will help. Also go to page 1 and look at the pics and info on most of popular types used in the Zero.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now the OPA works in +15 and -15, i.e. 30V dc.

 multiplying the 30 by 130mA, we have, 4W for the OPA alone.

 Beside OPA, there is DAC , receiver chip, logic circuit, relay (each relay 50mA !), other little component that drains power as heat.

 So it looks like 3*OPA is more or less confirmed to drain the the tranny hard._

 

Thanks CC...that would explain the loss of bass and other SQ issues I ran into with Earth and 2 SUNs config a few days back...and reported soon afterwards...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Interesting... Hi speed regs wouldn't solve the fundamental issue of current starvation would it CC....? 

 Do you concur with my assertions thus far on the matter (reg/tranny kit solution) ? 

 BTW thanks a million for filling in the blanks , your info is invaluable to my understanding of things (limited as it is) !!!!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## fugimax

Being that the 3x HDAM probably won't happen for me anytime soon (I'll let Peete experiment, first!) where's a good place to pick up some LT1364s?

 I'll probably just experiment for now with Earth v. Sun and potentially picking up that blokker if I'm hearing line noise once my Zero comes.


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fugimax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Being that the 3x HDAM probably won't happen for me anytime soon (I'll let Peete experiment, first!) where's a good place to pick up some LT1364s?

 I'll probably just experiment for now with Earth v. Sun and potentially picking up that blokker if I'm hearing line noise once my Zero comes._

 

Directly from linear, you can get free samples, just search for samples/linear on this thread.


----------



## fugimax

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Directly from linear, you can get free samples, just search for samples/linear on this thread._

 

Thanks, samples requested. I was at least expecting to pay ... geez!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The wattage isn't the real concern...it's the current delivery capability of the stock toroid and volt regs...they are close to max ratings with 1 HDAM in the dac section and LT1364's in the H/Amp section. Snip-O-rama!

 Peete._

 

I totally agree with your assessment of this PP. I just did a test to confirm how many HDAMs it takes to finally observe the drain on resources. It worked out like this:

 Earth in DAC, LT1364's in headphone amp = Plenty of resources, headroom.
 OPA627s in DAC, 2 "Sun" HDAMS in headphone amp = Resources peaked, headroom questionable.
 Earth in DAC, 2 "Sun" HDAMS in headphone amp = Resource drain obvious, no headroom, bass punch gone.

 So, the third HDAM is one too many for the resources on hand.

 This isn't necessarily a bad thing. Keeping "low cost", "simplicity" and "flexability" in mind, one HDAM in the DAC section, giving you a super clean and dynamic signal, and your favorite Opamps in the headphone section, will result in some serious quality sound, while keeping the Zero in a "happy camper" operating state. When you think about it, it really isn't a trade off at all. Having the superior DAC signal is the best possible upgrade overall. It gives both the DAC output (RCA's) and the internal headphone amp an improvement at the same time. This also leaves room for you to further customize the headphone amp with different Opamps, to match with personal tastes and differences in headphones.


----------



## Trax416

Finally got my tracking number for the Zero DAC/AMP. Will be ordering a set of Denon AH-D2000's on Friday to go with the Zero. 

 Looking forward, as the best headphones I have ever used was a $25 Cyber acoustics headset. lol


----------



## alxwang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trax416* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Finally got my tracking number for the Zero DAC/AMP. Will be ordering a set of Denon AH-D2000's on Friday to go with the Zero. 

 Looking forward, as the best headphones I have ever used was a $25 Cyber acoustics headset. lol_

 

I do not think you will be happy about D2000 with zero headphone Amp.

 PP: Computer PS test failed. It looks like just get right volt and current is not enough. 

 My power board is hold LA. I do not know how can a shipment from China to Canada can ever be hold in LA for 1 weeks.


----------



## dario

but the zhaolu has a sufficient power supply for a 3 hdam configuration?
 I ask becouse I will have 3 sun hdam in the next weeks and I would want to use all...(I have not bought the zero yet than I have free choice)


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dario* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_but the zhaolu has a sufficient power supply for a 3 hdam configuration?
 I ask becouse I will have 3 sun hdam in the next weeks and I would want to use all...(I have not bought the zero yet than I have free choice)_

 

Which one the 2.5 or 3.0 ? It's a different amp and I don't know anything about it. The 3.0 is 300 US and I don't know what the 2.5 cost...200US is a guess.

 Can't tell by looking at it from pics...the transformers are covered up and there is no real details posted unless I need to find a better source page.

 100VA is a pretty standard size power supply rating for most compact DACs of this class. I don't see the Zhaolu packing anything bigger than that in that size chassis...I could as always be wrong 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Peete.

 PS LC by the way used to work for Zhaolu IIRC. That's why the two are similar in design and philosophy...with the Zero being the lesser cost option with the better H/Amp in it. the 3.0 has no headphone amp I think...so that's no good for you ? Can you check that dario please...thanks. I've got to look up specs on the Zero's stock volt regs and see it there is better hi speed, higher current parts. The toroidal transformer has to be uprated to maybe 300VA...need to check all this out and gets prices and such...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alxwang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I do not think you will be happy about D2000 with zero headphone Amp.

 PP: Computer PS test failed. It looks like just get right volt and current is not enough. 

 My power board is hold LA. I do not know how can a shipment from China to Canada can ever be hold in LA for 1 weeks._

 

Figures eh Alex....oh well it was worth checking out at least. Hmm, in LA...What ?

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trax416* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Finally got my tracking number for the Zero DAC/AMP. Will be ordering a set of Denon AH-D2000's on Friday to go with the Zero. 

 Looking forward, as the best headphones I have ever used was a $25 Cyber acoustics headset. lol_

 

Massive jump in SQ over the Cyber junk (no offense Trax) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Why the Denon AH D2000 ? Just curious as to why you picked those...what is the impedance of those cans ?

 Peete.


----------



## dario

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which one the 2.5 or 3.0 ? It's a different amp and I don't know anything about it. The 3.0 is 300 US and I don't know what the 2.5 cost...200US is a guess.

 Can't tell by looking at it from pics...the transformers are covered up and there is no real details posted unless I need to find a better source page.

 100VA is a pretty standard size power supply rating for most compact DACs of this class. I don't see the Zhaolu packing anything bigger than that in that size chassis...I could as always be wrong 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.

 PS LC by the way used to work for Zhaolu IIRC. That's why the two are similar in design and philosophy...with the Zero being the lesser cost option with the better H/Amp in it. the 3.0 has no headphone amp I think...so that's no good for you ? Can you check that dario please...thanks. I've got to look up specs on the Zero's stock volt regs and see it there is better hi speed, higher current parts. The toroidal transformer has to be uprated to maybe 300VA...need to check all this out and gets prices and such..._

 


 I would refer to the 2,5 the 3 I remember that hasn't the headphone amp...
 but I think that is very similar to the zero...

 But I'm not expert but the problem is the transformer?
 Becouse it seem quite cheap on ebay, for example
 100W 15V+15V Toroid Power Transformer for Audio DIY Project
 cost 28+26$


----------



## dario

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...what is the impedance of those cans ?

 Peete._

 

25 ohm


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Link to Analog board stock reg LM337T (lower right hand corner on the Zero main board, the main regs powering the analog section)

LM337T datasheet LM337Tçš„å‚æ•° LM337Tè§„æ*¼ä¹¦ LM337TæŠ€æœ¯èµ„æ–™ LM337T ë°ì´í„°ì‹œíŠ¸ LM337T ãƒ‡ãƒ¼ã‚¿ãƒ»ã‚·ãƒ¼ãƒˆ application notes

 Check out National Semiconductor pdf

 Link to other 2 regs on board near power supply connector from toroid LM1117T (National Semiconductor)

LM1117T datasheet, LM1117T data sheets, LM1117T pdf, LM1117T download ETC ::: ALLDATASHEET ::: Takes a while to load.

 Seems the LM1117T are feeding the 5V and 3.3V areas and the LM337T's are doing the 15V -15V heavy work for the HDAM and analog section.

 From what I can tell from the sheets these should be ok...although it's beginning to look like the regs in the head amp section are the weakest links here. If the voltages are the same (as the LM337T's)...maybe some LM types to replace the obsolete Toshiba's in the H/Amp is in order ?...Something Alex is working on when his reg boards arrive from being held hostage in LA 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My reg/transformer idea is looking better and better the more I find out...(which makes feel good since I don't like throwing away money anymore than the next cheapskate 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


 Peete.


----------



## Trax416

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Massive jump in SQ over the Cyber junk (no offense Trax) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Why the Denon AH D2000 ? Just curious as to why you picked those...what is the impedance of those cans ?

 Peete._

 

I picked them because many people suggested them when I asked about what I could pick up in my price range to go with the Zero. The impedance is 25OHM's. I have not bought them yet, and I would be willing to get new ones. 

 I am looking for something under $300 CAD including shipping. 

 It was between Audio Technica AD-700/A900. AKG K701, and the Denon AH-D2000. 

 Does anyone have suggestions on what I should get? Even if it isn't one of those sets of cans.


----------



## viscosity

well I got OPAs today... popped the earth into the DAC and can already notice heavier bass improved sibilance.. and a 'darker' sound which is great as my akgk701s have always seamed a little too bright.

 only thing is I bought 4 of these thinking id put 3 into use... so now i got too many.. guess they'll come into use someday


----------



## dario

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Link to Analog board stock reg LM337T (lower right hand corner on the Zero main board, the main regs powering the analog section)

LM337T datasheet LM337Tçš„å‚æ•° LM337Tè§„æ*¼ä¹¦ LM337TæŠ€æœ¯èµ„æ–™ LM337T ë°ì´í„°ì‹œíŠ¸ LM337T ãƒ‡ãƒ¼ã‚¿ãƒ»ã‚·ãƒ¼ãƒˆ application notes

 Check out National Semiconductor pdf

 Link to other 2 regs on board near power supply connector from toroid LM1117T (National Semiconductor)

LM1117T datasheet, LM1117T data sheets, LM1117T pdf, LM1117T download ETC ::: ALLDATASHEET ::: Takes a while to load.

 Seems the LM1117T are feeding the 5V and 3.3V areas and the LM337T's are doing the 15V -15V heavy work for the HDAM and analog section.

 From what I can tell from the sheets these should be ok...although it's beginning to look like the regs in the head amp section are the weakest links here. If the voltages are the same (as the LM337T's)...maybe some LM types to replace the obsolete Toshiba's in the H/Amp is in order ?...Something Alex is working on when his reg boards arrive from being held hostage in LA 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My reg/transformer idea is looking better and better the more I find out...(which makes feel good since I don't like throwing away money anymore than the next cheapskate 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


 Peete._

 


 I don't know what you are thinking but I hope that the mod would be possible also for people like me that I know only solder a little and have a little know of electronics


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From what I can tell from the sheets these should be ok...although it's beginning to look like the regs in the head amp section are the weakest links here. 

 <snip>_

 

I was under the impression last time I looked, that the transistors used on the headphone amplifier board were used to increase the strength of the audio signal, and that the voltage was taken directly from the bottom corner of the DAC board...

 ~Phewl.


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trax416* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I picked them because many people suggested them when I asked about what I could pick up in my price range to go with the Zero. The impedance is 25OHM's. I have not bought them yet, and I would be willing to get new ones. 

 I am looking for something under $300 CAD including shipping. 

 It was between Audio Technica AD-700/A900. AKG K701, and the Denon AH-D2000. 

 Does anyone have suggestions on what I should get? Even if it isn't one of those sets of cans._

 

Look into the Sennheiser HD-600, they should be around 300. Unfortunately the Sennheiser rebate only applies to the US, where it not, you would be able to get 50 USD back from the 300$ they cost.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quick question for CC,

 Do I need a +15 -15 V DC reg board and tranny or can I just supply the + pin of the HDAMs with a single +15 V DC line. It doesn't quite isolate using V- on the HDAM connected into the regular circuit.

 I've gone with the single supply line of +15V...I wonder if that's incorrect ?

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was under the impression last time I looked, that the transistors used on the headphone amplifier board were used to increase the strength of the audio signal, and that the voltage was taken directly from the bottom corner of the DAC board...

 ~Phewl._

 

No question the 337T's are the main part supplying the entire analog sections (including H/Amp)...I'm just juggling about six balls in the air right now AP (and I can't juggle worth a damn 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)...trying to nail down a reasonable fix for a 3 HDAM Zero config for little cash outlay (if that can be done ).

 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Cut pins 4 and 8 on all the HDAMs, and feed them directly from an external source 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 No tidy way to do this with the current Zero DAC casing, though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cut pins 4 and 8 on all the HDAMs, and feed them directly from an external source 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 No tidy way to do this with the current Zero DAC casing, though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 

That's my idea (I have worked out how to do it, will it fit...I dunno)...but can I do it with this setup AP...have a look...or do I need the +15 -15V reg board. I think I have the right one...ordered the +15 V DC with 1 A tranny.

 Linky.....

Welborne Labs PSREG Kit

 What do you think ?


 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

If you want the same working voltage as the Zero DAC, then you'll need +/-15v rather than just +15v.

 Opamp sockets in the Zero supply a total of 30v. To get an idea of how the HDAMs would function with 15v, remove the -ve feed and tie it straight to ground, which will give you a working voltage of 15v.

 I don't know how the HDAMs will perform with just 15v...

 ETA - from the looks of things, the boards you are looking at are only capable of supplying a positive voltage, not a negative one. What you're really looking for is a dual power supply, that's capable of driving a solid half-amp for 3 HDAMs...

 Possibly have a word with Evan, over at Shinymetal...
http://www.ezdiyaudio.com/

 I know he was working on a good dual power supply before focussing on his DAC. He's a nice chap, easy to understand and very knowledgeable. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Right...very good....

 Ok now this link should be the ticket 

 then...Welborne Labs PS1 Regulated Supply

 I can use that other one in the CDP to feed the Tentlabs X02...with some resistor changes to drop the voltage to +12V DC so it's not a total loss....

 Thanks AP !!! How are you enjoying the Stax rig ? I must admit I'd love to hear some stats again after all these years....

 Peete.

 PS: The PS1 kit uses a toroid...might be able to stack them...means a custom top but that would look kinda cool ....


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Wow cool...thanks for that link...

 Great site for a half wit like me... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll reading that page for a while tonight 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Trax416

Any suggestions outside of the HD600's. I am pretty disappointed to learn the Denon's won't sound good on the Zero, as I was going to get them for a really good price.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trax416* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any suggestions outside of the HD600's. I am pretty disappointed to learn the Denon's won't sound good on the Zero, as I was going to get them for a really good price._

 

Why not try them and see...does the store have a return policy if your not happy with the Denons ? What kind of music do you prefer...are you a bass head...etc...?

 Peete.


----------



## Trax416

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why not try them and see...does the store have a return policy if your not happy with the Denons ? What kind of music do you prefer...are you a bass head...etc...?

 Peete._

 

I don't have the ability to try those two, I was going to get the Denon's used for $130 like new. I will have to call around to see if anyone has the HD600's for listening tests. 

 I listen to a wide variety of music. I am also in the PC game development industry, so soundstage is important.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trax416* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any suggestions outside of the HD600's. I am pretty disappointed to learn the Denon's won't sound good on the Zero, as I was going to get them for a really good price._

 

It isn't that they'll sound bad, it's that they won't perform at their optimum unless paired with a more substantial amplifier. The amp in the Zero is good - nothing more, nothing less. It'll do a fair job of being an amplifier.

 It'll sound better than no amplifier. It'll probably sound 80% as good as a more expensive amplifier.

 But the way some folk talk on this forum, you'd be forgiven for expecting it to sound lousy. Heck... my Stax stuff is only a third better than my donkeys-years-old HD480s. That doesn't mean the 480s are no longer any good, just that they can be beaten.

 Everything always gets beaten. You can't escape it. My advice - get the headphones you want and use them with a Zero. When you have some more money, look at using a different amplifier. It'll be different, but it may not be a huge a difference as you'd think from reading about headphones on here.

 At the end of the day, you have to part with some cash and make up your own mind. Folk on here are - generally - not a useful stick with which to measure your own mind. Doesn't matter if 30 people rave about something - it's all about how it sounds to your ears, and yours alone.

*Peete* - loving the Stax stuff. Has been playing in the back of my mind that it's an awful lot of money, and I've thought of sending it back. But each time I put them on, and sit back with a good album... they're suddenly worth every penny. I swap over to my old cans from time to time... and the difference is breathtaking. Much more atmosphere, much bigger stage into which it presents itself.

 Glad I'm single, and able to afford such loveliness 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. There isn't anyone around to make me feel guilty about spending such obscene money on a pair of headphones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Isao_Tanaka

Hello everyone,

 I'm really interested in this Dac/Amp for his great "bang for the buck" ratio, but i wanted to make sure it would go well enough with my phone (ad2000) before ordering it.
 So i'm wondering if any of you guys own that combo and what your impressions are about the sinergy between the Zero and the ad2000?

 Tyvm.


----------



## fugimax

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Isao_Tanaka* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello everyone,

 I'm really interested in this Dac/Amp for his great "bang for the buck" ratio, but i wanted to make sure it would go well enough with my phone (ad2000) before ordering it.
 So i'm wondering if any of you guys own that combo and what your impressions are about the sinergy between the Zero and the ad2000?

 Tyvm._

 

Can anyone answer this question more generally? What spec. of headphone does the Zero match up well with? Is impedance the key consideration?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It isn't that they'll sound bad, it's that they won't perform at their optimum unless paired with a more substantial amplifier. The amp in the Zero is good - nothing more, nothing less. It'll do a fair job of being an amplifier.

 It'll sound better than no amplifier. It'll probably sound 80% as good as a more expensive amplifier.

 But the way some folk talk on this forum, you'd be forgiven for expecting it to sound lousy. Heck... my Stax stuff is only a third better than my donkeys-years-old HD480s. That doesn't mean the 480s are no longer any good, just that they can be beaten.

 Everything always gets beaten. You can't escape it. My advice - get the headphones you want and use them with a Zero. When you have some more money, look at using a different amplifier. It'll be different, but it may not be a huge a difference as you'd think from reading about headphones on here.

 At the end of the day, you have to part with some cash and make up your own mind. Folk on here are - generally - not a useful stick with which to measure your own mind. Doesn't matter if 30 people rave about something - it's all about how it sounds to your ears, and yours alone.

*Peete* - loving the Stax stuff. Has been playing in the back of my mind that it's an awful lot of money, and I've thought of sending it back. But each time I put them on, and sit back with a good album... they're suddenly worth every penny. I swap over to my old cans from time to time... and the difference is breathtaking. Much more atmosphere, much bigger stage into which it presents itself.

 Glad I'm single, and able to afford such loveliness 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. There isn't anyone around to make me feel guilty about spending such obscene money on a pair of headphones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl._

 

Sage advice AP.....fugi it's tough to pick out something for someone else....the HD series work very well with the Zero's amp...like AP said it's not a great amp by any stretch of the imagination the real story is the DAC in the Zero. The H/Amp can be improved upon by using a HDAM in the dac section of the dac....SENN HD580,600,650 are all good with this amp. The K701's are ok with it as well...It drives my 650's very well but nowhere near as good as my modified MK III Tube amp...I understand your frustration because I was once where you are right now...my best advice is spend as much as you can on the best headphones money can buy (within reason HD650/AKG701 levels of cash)...that way you'll never have to upgrade them when you move to better gear, they scale right along with your new stuff. 

 I hadn't planned on buying 650's when I started out...was looking at AKG K270 MK II's, then HD595s...after reading a pile of info on each type of popular can...I decided to get a used set of 650's..cost me a little more than a new set of AKG K270 MK II's but I'm awful glad I went with these...at times I'd like to get some K701's as I appreciate their take on frequency response. I don't like things being to warm or cool and shy away from tone controls and EQ (except in the car where it's critical to have EQ).

 Anyway I hope this helps you a little...sorry about your now thinning wallet...

 AP: You deserve something special in your life every once in a while...I know that feeling...buyers remorse...but put it out of your head and say...how much is musical enjoyment on this scale worth, can happiness be bought for so cheap a price ? Trust me man...1600 US is cheap..once you get married or shacked up...you be spending 1K like it was nothing, on furniture,property taxes..multi K's on homes & cars...(oh man now I want to jump off the nearest bridge 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...anyway you get the idea. Just enjoy them and remember that they can always be sold for a decent resale value allowing you to move another step up the system ladder...think of them as a temporary investment towards better gear down the road...if indeed you do want to go one better. It's how I built my (main system) current rig, the sale of the previous amp/amps whatever, took a significant chunk out the new kits price....made me feel better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 I know I'd love to hear some Stax gear again...they get the highs and mids right like no other...truth of timbre and imaging from what I recall are without peer.

 Enjoy them bro, guilt free 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cut pins 4 and 8 on all the HDAMs, and feed them directly from an external source 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 No tidy way to do this with the current Zero DAC casing, though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 

I thot of this at first, but realise there is a pair of coupling capacitor that is parallel to the V+ and V- if I am right. So I wonder how to hook up the V+ and V-.

 PP,

 I think u need the +15V and -15 voltage rail to feed in. U will need a return loop to the tranny to complete the circuit right. Again the capacitor on top. Can u find the coupling capacitor and feed the V+ and V- before the coupling cap. A check with Lawrence Chan would be the best to confirm the hook up.


----------



## Trax416

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It isn't that they'll sound bad, it's that they won't perform at their optimum unless paired with a more substantial amplifier. The amp in the Zero is good - nothing more, nothing less. It'll do a fair job of being an amplifier.

 It'll sound better than no amplifier. It'll probably sound 80% as good as a more expensive amplifier.

 But the way some folk talk on this forum, you'd be forgiven for expecting it to sound lousy. Heck... my Stax stuff is only a third better than my donkeys-years-old HD480s. That doesn't mean the 480s are no longer any good, just that they can be beaten.

 Everything always gets beaten. You can't escape it. My advice - get the headphones you want and use them with a Zero. When you have some more money, look at using a different amplifier. It'll be different, but it may not be a huge a difference as you'd think from reading about headphones on here.

 At the end of the day, you have to part with some cash and make up your own mind. Folk on here are - generally - not a useful stick with which to measure your own mind. Doesn't matter if 30 people rave about something - it's all about how it sounds to your ears, and yours alone.

*Peete* - loving the Stax stuff. Has been playing in the back of my mind that it's an awful lot of money, and I've thought of sending it back. But each time I put them on, and sit back with a good album... they're suddenly worth every penny. I swap over to my old cans from time to time... and the difference is breathtaking. Much more atmosphere, much bigger stage into which it presents itself.

 Glad I'm single, and able to afford such loveliness 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. There isn't anyone around to make me feel guilty about spending such obscene money on a pair of headphones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl._

 

Ya, it's between the D2000's and AD900's now. I never thought the Denon's needed a super good amp to power them.


----------



## ccschua

When playing 3 HDAM/OPA, please measure the V+ and V- (Pin 4 and Pin 8)

 if the voltage drops below 15Vdc, it is clear sign of resource drain.

 Also HD650 has high resistance and require lower current. but to drive hd650 require higher signal voltage. A voltage drop will present the distortion as heard.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thot of this at first, but realise there is a pair of coupling capacitor that is parallel to the V+ and V- if I am right. So I wonder how to hook up the V+ and V-.

 PP,

 I think u need the +15V and -15 voltage rail to feed in. U will need a return loop to the tranny to complete the circuit right. Again the capacitor on top. Can u find the coupling capacitor and feed the V+ and V- before the coupling cap._

 

Your right CC and AP, thanks to both of you....I've made the changes to my order and now have the correct reg and toroid on the way.

 AP what's your thoughts on this latest question raised about the coupling caps on the main pcb ?


 Peete.


----------



## fugimax

Zero and Audio-gd packages will be here today, woo!

 Looking forward to hearing a good dac on some of my Pink Floyd. I'm used to the DACs in my iPod/iMac/Airport Express.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's true. I do have both, and I enjoy both for their differences. My preference is to listen to the HD-650s. After they mature, I don't think there is a nicer audiophile headphone out there. The HD-600s are more forward and brighter, which works great for solid state amps. I will use them frequently with my MKV amp. It is nice to be able to choose which I want to use. As far as usage goes, I'd say I use the HD-650s 80% and the HD-600s 20% of the time. For the HD-600s, this is just enough to warrant keeping them.

 Things have changed a little for me here in my office/lab. Every amp I own voices well with both HD-650s and HD-600s, so I take advantage of that. I do find the HD-650s every bit as revealing, dynamic and clear as the HD-600s, so nothing is lost by listening to either one. There is just something special about the final sound of the HD-650s. I never get tired of listening to them, ever. That one little fact makes them my favorite for recommendations. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks, Pench, I feel all soft and mooshy now, 'cos, to quote HeadRoom I have "shelled out big and cried once" and bought a set of brand new 650s for a good price. No, make that an exceptional price compared to buying new in NZ!!
 They are described as creating a musical synergy that maybe second to none (differing opinions accepted) and that is something I highly prize in listening to music, in the way I prize rhythmic integrity - any piece of kit that is sluggish and slow in the bass dynamics doesn't stay in my home for long. I'm sold. I appreciate the opinions of you guys, cheers!


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trax416* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't have the ability to try those two, I was going to get the Denon's used for $130 like new. I will have to call around to see if anyone has the HD600's for listening tests. 

 I listen to a wide variety of music. I am also in the PC game development industry, so soundstage is important._

 

Trax, mate, you just might find the Denons a bit much with the Zero's head amp ..... unless you really like massive bass output. I have a set of the D1000s and although they are not as high a class as the D2000s, there is the family resemblance of very extended bass. The Zero's amp, IMO, doesn't have the crisp bass control needed to keep the Denons in check, at least until you start rolling op-amps etc to tighten things up a bit. I personally find the Zero amp pleasant, yet too warm and cuddly for my liking. I think I'm just used to the speed of KHA. 
 I too, right up until last night, was seriously considering the D2000s, as I find that the Denons have a way of communicating music that is just plain fun, far more so than than the more analytical HD555s, despite their superior openness and bass speed. All IMHO, of course. I have heard some punters describe the D1000s as bass light and I had to wonder if they just thought the ear cups were there to catch the blood! I like 'em cos I can plug 'em into anything, they're very efficient and sound great with my Meier 2Move. Actually, the 2Move sounds great out of the Zero's DAC, very smooth and clean. Hope this helps at all, cheers buddy.


----------



## sennsay

The S-man has had two parcels arrive in the mail today, a Brown Dog adapter and the NOS pot from Lawrence. Now I can use the LT1028s that I bought from DIY kits; so I popped them in the BD and immediately put them in place of the OPA2134 in KHA. I brought them as 'used', though I have no idea how used they actually are. Anyhoo, after 10 mins or so I had to just make sure they worked ok and popped the Senn 555s and the Denon D1000s (KHA has two sockets and the diff cans are nearly the same impedance). Crikey these op-amps sound really reeaally good in this position, Eva Cassidy is simply captivating - you know ... where you lean into the music because it's got your attention, no sibilance, no edge, just smooth, clean and open, tight and warm bass. 
 Something I've noticed whenever I've used two single op-amps (627s and 1028s) either in the DAC or KHA is the superior focus and imaging and soundstaging compared to using a dual op-amp. VERY nice!

 The other package contained the NOS volume pot and I must have been expecting something more, because I was a little disappointed with the pot. I had been imagining something more like an ALPS Blue and this looks like a standard old pot with detents that may actually be no better at all than the pot already in the Zero. Is this what you got, Penchum and PP? It used to be an 8 leg pot that has had the two RHS legs cut off (facing the front of the pot) leaving 6 remaining. Hmmm.


----------



## direcow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trax416* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ya, it's between the D2000's and AD900's now. I never thought the Denon's needed a super good amp to power them._

 


 you don't need a super good amp for the denons, I'm using a D5000 with the zero headamp, and loving every bit of it, especially after rolling opamps.

 Could it be better? Definitely. But for the price performance ratio I'm very pleased.


----------



## fugimax

Zero and OPA-SUNs / EARTHs have arrived. Currently burning in the Earth.

 Sounds great even now driving my ATH-ESW9s!


----------



## Trax416

I think I may still go with the Denon's, because I do plan on getting a new amp eventually, and I think anything I hear will blow me away compared to these $20 Cyber Acoustics. 

 I have a question though, Would a Little Dot I+ with a Zero working as the DAC be able to drive them better?


----------



## Emanuel

I must ask AudioGd to send me the new extension lead (last expidition was without it), and I'm wondering if I can ask for a little shorter version, like 75mm it will be good for the zero? To my eye it seems possible, who can help me?
 thanks!


----------



## shaddix

sorry found it


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Snip

 The other package contained the NOS volume pot and I must have been expecting something more, because I was a little disappointed with the pot. I had been imagining something more like an ALPS Blue and this looks like a standard old pot with detents that may actually be no better at all than the pot already in the Zero. Is this what you got, Penchum and PP? It used to be an 8 leg pot that has had the two RHS legs cut off (facing the front of the pot) leaving 6 remaining. Hmmm._

 

Yes, that is the correct one. It is much better than the stock pot, for sure!
 Don't let the looks fool you. Once in place and doing it's thing, you'll like it.


----------



## ccschua

Hi PP,

 do u want to consider upgrade the cable running from the DAC board to the headphone board. That wire look kind of tiny and unshielded.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi PP,

 do u want to consider upgrade the cable running from the DAC board to the headphone board. That wire look kind of tiny and unshielded._

 

LOL sure why not 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have some very nice cable from DIY HI FI Supply I can use !!!

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, that is the correct one. It is much better than the stock pot, for sure!
 Don't let the looks fool you. Once in place and doing it's thing, you'll like it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

X 2

 Looks have nothing to do with superior function in this case (and mine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).

 The Alps pot is indeed a SQ upgrade and the price is right 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL sure why not 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I have some very nice cable from DIY HI FI Supply I can use !!!

 Peete._

 

Hi,

 Just got 1 easy way out about the regulator mod. (not the best, and keep my fingers cross)

 1. Remove the +- 15V on the stock tranny going to the OPA. That would give more power supply to the DAC and receiver chips. A great plus.

 2. Disconnect the stock 3pin regulator.Connect the new power supply +- 15V in place of the 3pin regulator.

 voila. what do u think.


----------



## ccschua

Hi PP,

 I hope to offer some help.

 Here is another way of giving the power supply to the OPA (more technical though). See the diagram first before cont.

 Normally there is a resistor and a coupling cap to each supply rail. The resistor is normally there but can be omitted due to sound tuning, cost cutting or the designer dunno the circuit design requirement. Wheareas the purpose of coupling cap is below (return path)

Coupling Capacitors in Op Amp Circuits

 So u can trace back the from the OPA (pin 4, 8) back to the coupling cap and the resistors to connect up the +15 and -15.

 Which way will you prefer.

 ps. It is a nice picture but i have problem to fill it up in this room.
 rgds.


----------



## Henmyr

My original wire for the OPA-Sun is getting shorter by the minute
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I will have to get another one. 

 What type of wire should I use for this?


----------



## fdbf

i am quite new to external dac and hi-quality music...
 I have connected the zero through coaxial to the mainboard.
 i'm using foobar. with flac files

 what i have to do with output settings? (16, 24, 32 bit)?
 do i need a plugin (i've seen "asio" written in many places) what's this?
 what do i have to put in coaxial output (44.1, 48, 96 or 192 KHz)?

 thanks for the info, i hope to understand something


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,

 Just got 1 easy way out about the regulator mod. (not the best, and keep my fingers cross)

 1. Remove the +- 15V on the stock tranny going to the OPA. That would give more power supply to the DAC and receiver chips. A great plus.

 2. Disconnect the stock 3pin regulator.Connect the new power supply +- 15V in place of the 3pin regulator.

 voila. what do u think._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi PP,

 I hope to offer some help.

 Here is another way of giving the power supply to the OPA (more technical though). See the diagram first before cont.

 Normally there is a resistor and a coupling cap to each supply rail. The resistor is normally there but can be omitted due to sound tuning, cost cutting or the designer dunno the circuit design requirement. Wheareas the purpose of coupling cap is below (return path)

Coupling Capacitors in Op Amp Circuits

 So u can trace back the from the OPA (pin 4, 8) back to the coupling cap and the resistors to connect up the +15 and -15.

 Which way will you prefer.

 ps. It is a nice picture but i have problem to fill it up in this room.
 rgds._

 

Hi CC,

 Excellent !!! 

 I will have a look at what your proposing and try and figure it out. I just want to add the DAC HDAM has a 1uf PIO paralleled on V+ V-...as per the Burson tweak...just an FYI. I don't see it's function being altered with this mod, enhanced maybe 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for all the great ideas and help !!! 

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fdbf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i am quite new to external dac and hi-quality music...
 I have connected the zero through coaxial to the mainboard.
 i'm using foobar. with flac files

 what i have to do with output settings? (16, 24, 32 bit)?
 do i need a plugin (i've seen "asio" written in many places) what's this?
 what do i have to put in coaxial output (44.1, 48, 96 or 192 KHz)?

 thanks for the info, i hope to understand something_

 

With ASIO driver you'll avoid processing steps in the operating system (bad)/onboard SC chip...and you'll want to output a "bit perfect stream" meaning no resampling,oversampling,upsampling to alter the flac files original coding (16 bit/44.1 khz...CD's are all this bit/sample rate). If you have a driver set capable of "bit perfect" output (google the term, check your mobo sites FAQ WRT the onboard sound card to see what options it has). Bit perfect will automatically set the output to the FLAC files original recorded standard as mentioned earlier (CD's are 16/44.1). It sounds far more complicated than it is 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What model modo and what is the SC chip please ?


 I'm sure I've just confused you further....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...it sounds far more complicated than it is. Google ASIO and "bit perfect" playback for detailed explanations of each. That should get you started in the right direction.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## fdbf

i have asus p5q mobo with realtek HD Audio. The asio control panel tells me that the output is 8-192Khz, 32bit. 

 i connected the zero directly to a coaxial input in my mobo.

 the question is... connecting to the coaxial bypasses the audio card? (this is what i want)

 do i need asio?
 i suppose no... if i understood well... direct coaxial output will send to zero the audio file "as it is"...

 Am i right? in the mean time, thanks for the help


----------



## Pricklely Peete

You may be right...it may be passed as is. I'm not familiar with that mobo...I have the Asus Maximus Formula, but use an Auzen Prelude for digital out via Auzens ASIO driver.

 I'm not 100% sure the way your doing it is untouched. I may be wrong about that. Is there anything mentioned in the mobo manual WRT to how the SPDIF out is handled in hardware by the P5Q ?

 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your right CC and AP, thanks to both of you....I've made the changes to my order and now have the correct reg and toroid on the way.

 AP what's your thoughts on this latest question raised about the coupling caps on the main pcb ?


 Peete._

 

The two caps immediately below the DAC opamp? Could remove them and feed your power supply directly at that point, which would also then be fed over to the headphone amplifier board, if my memory serves me correctly...

 Sorry if I've missed the question - it can be hard to keep up in this thread! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## alxwang

Does anyone have or where I can find the sun/earth pin map(diagram)? I mean I need to know what exactly meaning of every pin?
 Thanks.


----------



## Carter54

Not to be the opportunistic weasel of the threat but what are you guys doing with your old OPA627's?

 I still haven't taken the plunge on the Discrete OPAMP and am still rolling through what I have.

 If someone was looking to get rid of their 627's on a brown dog adapter I would gladly buy them to add to my collection. Blast me a PM.


----------



## fdbf

no mention in the manual, only "through coaxial you can link an external audio device", not so useful. But coaxial is treated apart from audio table in the manual... and in windows changing volume of the sound card nothing happens, so i think it is bypassed...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

CC

 Two things come to mind after reading the link.....the first being...the coupling caps (stock ones) are there to scrub dc offset on the vcc/2 lines correct ?
 The second is to measure the new reg board for this component in the supply lines, if there is then deal with it via the onboard coupling caps (on the Zero mainboard) or try and scrub it with further bypass caps on the large electrolytic caps on the new reg board ?

 I plan on adding to all 8 filter caps on the new reg board 8 WIMA FKP 1 2200pf bypass caps anyway. We'll have to see what the new reg board does first via its measurements on the +15 -15 lines.

 Here is the link to the reg board and tranny plus schematic...

Welborne Labs PS1 Regulated Supply

 The idea of tapping in where the LM 337T 's are (in effect taking them out of the circuit ) isn't what I want to do. I want to keep that part of the topology intact. The real idea behind the mod is to not leave a permanent footprint, it has to be reversible with minimal tools, to unbolt the toroid etc...no soldering or pin cutting on the HDAMs. I have that worked out already, it's simple and elegant.

 The idea that has most merit to me is an external chassis to offload the transformers and the new reg board to. This will have two immediate benefits, isolating the power supply and reg board to another chassis and thus getting it's magnetic field, ac noise and other nasties away from the analog board. Second it will allow room for all the modules to be installed and use the stock cover in the Zero (with room to spare for future tweaks...like isolating the 3.3V line). I'm toying with bolting the 2 chassis's together either stacked or side by side. Direct wiring with no umbilical cables between the 2 chassis's. Simply route the power lines through one hole and keep the V+ V- line a couple inches away through there own hole. Of course I plan on using shielded cable for this...for good measure. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm thinking of using the Lite Ah chassis for this...it can be had from DIY Gene for under 30 dollars and is perfect for this purpose. Simple, utilitarian and best of all will yield a superior SQ result...I hope 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What do you think CC and AP...Alex...is this the best overall approach ?

 One other question that comes to mind is where to locate the PS1 reg board ground...to what ground plane...the audio ground or the chassis ground ? My guess would be audio ground on the main pcb ...Would that be correct ?

 Thanks for all the great help you guys...this is far easier to understand with all your help....big thumbs up from Peete !!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Hello all. I have a problem (I think) because I can adjust the windows volume when I use ASIO4ALL with foobar2000. Does that mean that I am not getting perfect playback ? Thanks.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fdbf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_no mention in the manual, only "through coaxial you can link an external audio device", not so useful. But coaxial is treated apart from audio table in the manual... and in windows changing volume of the sound card nothing happens, so i think it is bypassed..._

 

I think you are correct about that. 

 You have a direct out...how does it sound to your ears ? Usually you can detect signal loss and degradation with careful comparison vs a dedicated CDP using a familiar track for reference.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello all. I have a problem (I think) because I can adjust the windows volume when I use ASIO4ALL with foobar2000. Does that mean that I am not getting perfect playback ? Thanks._

 

Yeah mine does the same. I don't think it means ASIO isn't doing what it does. I think Foobar2000 allows use of it's volume slider during bit perfect playback.

 I may be wrong but it sounds as good as it ever has.....I'm not too familiar with Foobar even though I use it exclusively 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The two caps immediately below the DAC opamp? Could remove them and feed your power supply directly at that point, which would also then be fed over to the headphone amplifier board, if my memory serves me correctly...

 Sorry if I've missed the question - it can be hard to keep up in this thread! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 

See my latest post for details on this AP 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have a hard time keeping up with this thread too...when the new DIY thread is born...things should be a lot easier...for everyone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Yea it sounds good to me but if for some reason ASIO isn't working properly then that is not good and I need to get that fixed. Also people are saying that their Windows Volume is not working when using ASIO4All so that is why I asked. By the way I have the ac-1 sound card.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alxwang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone have or where I can find the sun/earth pin map(diagram)? I mean I need to know what exactly meaning of every pin?
 Thanks._

 

I asked Kingwa for this...all he sent was the useless schematic on the web page. I have a feeling the pin out is exactly the same as the one on Burson Audios site on the cap tweak page. V- and V+ are unchanged and I can't see why any of the other pin assignments might be different.

 Wait I'll get a link for you....

Burson discrete Opamp 101

 There you go Alex 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yea it sounds good to me but if for some reason ASIO isn't working properly then that is not good and I need to get that fixed. Also people are saying that their Windows Volume is not working when using ASIO4All so that is why I asked. By the way I have the ac-1 sound card._

 

Hmmmm.......you know I think my windows mixer vol also works...maybe I need to look at my own setup to see what gives. I do however have excellent SQ when using Foobar and the Auzen ASIO driver...maybe the latest ASIO drivers allow this function ?

 If the AC-1 card has it's own ASIO driver, use it instead of ASIO4ALL. 

 Can anyone add to this particular discussion WRT questions at hand please 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




?

 Peete.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, that is the correct one. It is much better than the stock pot, for sure!
 Don't let the looks fool you. Once in place and doing it's thing, you'll like it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Excellent, thanks, Pench. Will get onto it this morning. At least with the open construction it will be easy to clean the tracks with contact cleaner if need be.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

How would i find out if my ac-1 sound card has its owns ASIO driver? Yea maybe the new version does allow volume changes through windows but isn't the point of ASIO is to bypass everything in windows including the volume changer?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How would i find out if my ac-1 sound card has its owns ASIO driver? Yea maybe the new version does allow volume changes through windows but isn't the point of ASIO is to bypass everything in windows including the volume changer?_

 

You would think...it depends on how the driver is written...er coded ? I have no details on the Auzen ASIO driver, just that it supposedly works and is working ?

 As you can see I'm also in need of answers....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Need more input from others on this...I'm at the limits of my SC knowledge.

 Peete.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_X 2

 Looks have nothing to do with superior function in this case (and mine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).

 The Alps pot is indeed a SQ upgrade and the price is right 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Haha, thanks PP. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The S-man has a new set of Senn 650s in the air today, winging their way to NZ, woohoo! Might as well go all out on the headphones and upgrade the amps 'n' things as time goes by. Saw the pics of Little Dot VI yesterday ............ sweeeeeeeeeeeeet!!!! Wow. What a gorgeous unit. Mustn't ..... lust ...... after ...... it, ....... spent ...... lots ...... of ...... money ..... since ....... joining ..... Head-Fi ....... already ............ ooooooooh but it is sweeeet .......


----------



## Nedman

This thread might explain a bit more about ASIO4All.
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/as...nation-221237/


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Excellent, thanks, Pench. Will get onto it this morning. At least with the open construction it will be easy to clean the tracks with contact cleaner if need be. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yep I just did this mod the other day S-Man. It a big improvement over the old pot, the SQ increase is noticeable and the channel imbalance is gone. I happen to like stepped volume controls...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now about that shaft length and new knob 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sigh, it always something....

 It's a five minute job. Clean the side of the pot (with cleaner of choice) for the casing ground wire. Scuff it a bit so the solder will stick...learned this the hard way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nedman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This thread might explain a bit more about ASIO4All.
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/as...nation-221237/_

 

Excellent NED !!!! Reading it right now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Yea I just read that and I think my asio4all is working. When I change the volume on "wave" it doesn't affect the volume at all. Guess I am getting Bit-perfect-playback. Thanks peete and nedman and also the creator of that thread.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep I just did this mod the other day S-Man. It a big improvement over the old pot, the SQ increase is noticeable and the channel imbalance is gone. I happen to like stepped volume controls...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now about that shaft length and new knob 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sigh, it always something....

 It's a five minute job. Clean the side of the pot (with cleaner of choice) for the casing ground wire. Scuff it a bit so the solder will stick...learned this the hard way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Beauty, mate, I'm going to get onto that in just a tick or two. On to it with the case ground, almost forgot that. I actually like my old knob .......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh, my new shaft is too long! Might have to trim it a bit (ouch?).


----------



## alxwang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I asked Kingwa for this...all he sent was the useless schematic on the web page. I have a feeling the pin out is exactly the same as the one on Burson Audios site on the cap tweak page. V- and V+ are unchanged and I can't see why any of the other pin assignments might be different.

 Wait I'll get a link for you....

Burson discrete Opamp 101

 There you go Alex 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Thanks PP. Finally 1 SUN+2 earth now. Did not do any power mod yet. Already love it with D2000. HD650 still works horrible - but I never looking forward to it anyway.

 Where is the best ground point? did you guys figure out it yet?
 Also how do you layout 3 unit in Zero? I do not feel engouh space.

 Also what is surprised me is after switch my vol nob do not needs to change still 10 o'clock position.

 Short feeling: 
 Compare to duet:
 Bass is a little better. Sound stage is way better. But mid-high detail ,Worse a lot , maybe need to burn in.


----------



## Trax416

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yea I just read that and I think my asio4all is working. When I change the volume on "wave" it doesn't affect the volume at all. Guess I am getting Bit-perfect-playback. Thanks peete and nedman and also the creator of that thread._

 

If you are using Vista, download the WASAPI plugin for Foobar2000(and Foobar if you have). Then set output to WASAPI. It's easier on Vista.


----------



## sennsay

Yippee! Senn 650s are in the air today and the HDAMs have arrived in NZ. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Be here later today or tomorrow I think. 
 I too don't want to turn my Zero into a wire-y mess, if it ain't easily retrofittable, I don't want it. The power diodes (Shottkey) and better LT regulators are pretty easy and I like that idea. Can't remember exactly what model number they were, but there are far superior regs that slot straight in. I'd be interested in doing that for sure and if I could find some small value polystyrene caps, I would pop them in place of those icky little ceramics. I've done that many times on other projects and it's subtle yet worthwhile.


----------



## wpfloridian

Just got my LT1364's hooked them on the headamp....the result is FANTASTIC!!

 As a newbie I installed two 1364's with the browndog adapter on one headamp slot..blew one opamp...luckily I had bought four units when I realized that there were two headamp slots...DUH!! Did the fix and boom! I am waiting for the 637's...

 Meanwhile I replaced the 2227 on my portable DIY amp with the last 1364 and the thing sound beautiful!!!! 

 Thanks again to all of you for such a great thread!!


----------



## LeBuLLeT

trax I actually have XP but can you use WASAPI on xp?


----------



## Emanuel

Ive had this little fault trying changing opa sun and earth..sometimes I didnt get the right spot while connecting them without extension, but they appeared to be ok..the result was a noticeable volume drop and cloudy highs, but the sound wasnt so bad, for this I can suggest to check that your opa is connected in the right way (for the sun is easier because of the led)

 Opa kicks ass, nothing else to say, way better than 627, my ears are not bleeding for the highs penetrating harshness anymore, exciting sound. Very happy, thanks to all, expecially someone of course, you know, u are the heroes (musically speaking).

 Im waiting for the mods right now


----------



## edguetzow

Wow.

 This thread never stops giving us improvements in spades!!

 I got the Earth via DHL today. 3 days from China to Texas, no sweat. I have been listening for about 4 hours straight with the Earth in the Dac and it is just freaking awesome.

 So this is supposed to get BETTER with burn in hours??? INcredible.

 I do not have it grounded yet and am using my GLite amp instead of the built in head amps.

 I don't wanna go to bed yet, Mama!!!


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Emanuel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ive had this little fault trying changing opa sun and earth..sometimes I didnt get the right spot while connecting them without extension, but they appeared to be ok..the result was a noticeable volume drop and cloudy highs, but the sound wasnt so bad, for this I can suggest to check that your opa is connected in the right way (for the sun is easier because of the led)

 Opa kicks ass, nothing else to say, way better than 627, my ears are not bleeding for the highs penetrating harshness anymore, exciting sound. Very happy, thanks to all, expecially someone of course, you know, u are the heroes (musically speaking).

 Im waiting for the mods right now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Actually, I have to agree with you there on the sound of the 627s, which has surprised me greatly. They are bright and forward whenever I use it in the DAC, no matter what I use in KHA (my other head amp). They have been spectacular in KHA with the standard 2604 in the DAC, yet it becomes a little wearing after a while. "I want what he's having" -ie; PP and Pench, something I can listen too for hours yet have all the clarity and detail I love so much. My HDAMs are now not due in NZ until the weekend and ought to be on my doorstep Monday morning or Tuesday at the latest, Kingwa's English was a little, shall we say, dodgy. 
 What I have done while playing around a bit is put the Brown Dog with two LT1028s in it into KHA and that has done wonderful things for my Senn 540Rs, which are VERY sensitive to upper mid emphasis, as in the 627s, in my system at least. I just kept the standard 2604 in the DAC and at least I have sweeter sounds now, if a bit rolled at the tops. From all that I've heard so far on the HDAM incarnations, OPA Earth will do me just fine in the DAC.
 I am thinking orgasmic things when the HD650s arrive next week sometime ..... mmmmmmm .....


----------



## LeBuLLeT

LOL "orgasmic" sennsay. I have the hd650's with the zero. No separate amp yet but the Earth on the Dac sounds really good.


----------



## fdbf

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think you are correct about that. 

 You have a direct out...how does it sound to your ears ? Usually you can detect signal loss and degradation with careful comparison vs a dedicated CDP using a familiar track for reference.

 Peete._

 

it's slight more brilliant and less flat... but maybe it's placebo...


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Booo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Glad you discovered the LT1028 greatness! Throw away those dull and harsh OPA627... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Where are you using the 1028s, Booo? I must say I have never thought of the 627s as harsh, definitely bright in some applications. I think it's just the combo of my headphones and various electronics that doesn't gel with them, as I have no reason to doubt PP and Pench and others, who find them a magic combo as far as op-amps go. 
 I do like the 1028s though, where I have used them in KHA. Not great, but very nice. I have actually gone to 1364 in both DAC and KHA now and retrieved the 3D back again which the 1028 loses a tad by rolling the very tops in my amp. 
 Someone mentioned waaaaay earlier in this thread that the 1364 (may have been Penchum) is wonderful in the DAC with his SPEC amps, though ruthless on dodgy recordings, I agree! I bought a new CD of some exquisite music yesterday but this pressing of the CD is an insult to the music, edgy and glarey. It's made glorious choral music almost unlistenable sometimes. Shame.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Booo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also try replacing the two LT1028 with an LT1361... should be interesting. What you'd prefer depends on your system (of course)._

 

That is exactly what I have been thinking of doing this avo! Good things have been writen about this op-amp.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Booo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The LT1028 in two DACs, a Super Pro 707 and a Musiland SVDAC05. It's not rolled off in the treble (hey, has 70 MHz of bandwidth, how could it be?), it's rather a little silky soft. Yep, that's also my little complaint with it - fortunately it is made up for by a wonderfully transparent midrange (more transparent than that of the LT1364).

 The LT1361 is the next you would have to try. Has less midbass than the 1364, yet fuller vocals. Also has slightly better midrange transparency. It's my favorite of the LT13xx line (and, funnily, the very first LT I tried, a couple of years ago). That's not to say that the LT1364 isn't great!


 Besides, the LT1361 has less stability issues than the LT1364. Ah, finally you would want to try the LT1358, which is slightly darker and smoother._

 


 Mmmm, each op-amp seems to interact differently with whatever circuit it's in and it's certainly dark in the tops in KHA. It's added quite some fullness to the bass though, as if in my amp it has tipped the frequency up in the bass and down to the treble, interesting and kinda suits the Senn 540s, though robbing some air. Great with some music even so. Really though, I would rather the system was neutrally balanced and it's not always as easy as just putting the brighter 627s in the DAC to compensate. In fact with the 1028s in the DAC and 1364s in the Zeros amp, it just sounded a little weird to my ears. Fun for a while, but now I just want the HDAMs and some stability (in the op-amps too, heh heh 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) in the system so that I can get down and really enjoy some great toons and the new Senns when they arrive. I s'pose it'll be a while before they burn in too!


----------



## sennsay

Munchmunchchewchompcrunchmunch ..... the sound of me eating some of my words after dissing the CD I spoke of. I imported it into my Apple lappy as a lossless file and played it back through my Meier 2Move and the Denon 1000s and it sounds .... um .... mostly utterly exquisite. A touch of digititis in a few places, not perfect but damn fine all the same. AND it's utterly neutral! 
 Gulp, maybe my CDP as a transport could be a tad better, methinks. One thing I do know, the Zero improves greatly on the CDPs DAC and analogue electronics, as much as I have enjoyed it previously. I know 'cos I went back to the CDP a short time ago from it's analogue out. Yay Zero!


----------



## Oya?

[OT]

 Haven't dropped by here in a while. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Checked here a few hours back and the thread's already grown by 6 pages. Pretty crazy traffic!

 [/OT] 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My Zero's still rocking along happily. Also can't help but notice there's a few Kiwis in the club.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alxwang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I do not think you will be happy about D2000 with zero headphone Amp._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trax416* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ya, it's between the D2000's and AD900's now. I never thought the Denon's needed a super good amp to power them._

 

I'm using modded D5000's and they are driven fine by the Zero, though better with my MKV. If I had bought the Zero in the first place, instead of the MKV, I probably wouldn't have bothered with the MKV. I'm waiting for the arrival of another pair of headphones with a different sound signature and impedance to compare a few things, however.

 That being said, I'm sure I haven't the least gotten the most out of my Denons.


----------



## Doorknob

I have replaced the DAC section with the Sun and it sounds great but there's a few issues going on.

 1. Volume. Volume went down noticeably and had to turn the knob from 9'o clock to around 10-11'o clock position. Which doesn't sound that bad until you realise...

 2. Heat. It seems that turning up the volume knob contributes to heat, and there's a lot of it coming out. I could really feel some sort of steam coming out from the vent. With the knob at 9, there's not much problem but as soon as it goes up, it feels as if the components are going to melt.

 3. Random Crackling Noises. Found this to be really odd. Sometimes there's just random crackling noises in the songs. Does the Sun need to be soldered in? Just smushed the soldering part to the screw with a screwdriver. Didn't think that did anything.

 Did I get a faulty Sun opamp? I'm pretty sure not though, the SQ is pretty good. I'm just afraid to power the thing longer because of heat problems mostly. Is it okay to leave it on like that? Because as soon as heat shows, crackling appears.

 I might just end up trying to fix the software drivers on my computer to increase the volume though.

 Edit: The crackling noises are at the right of my driver. Either I put in the extension wrong or one part of the Sun got melted or something. It's currently only happening at the right of my drivers. I'm sure my A900's works fine, I have another source to confirm that.

 It's probably the fault with the Sun itself now I guess. Gonna open up the box later to check the problem.


----------



## Emanuel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Doorknob* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have replaced the DAC section with the Sun and it sounds great but there's a few issues going on._

 

Maybe u have inserted it in the wrong way, it happened the same to me. For the sun is easy to look because in this case the led are off (u must see 2 green led shining bright). If it doesn't help, probably its broken, try only to insert them in the right way (or maybe the extension in broken in som pins, if you have one)

 PS: the right way is not only with the earth cable that is going toward you, but even connecting all the pins in the socket, which it doesnt happen all the time, at least for me


----------



## Currawong

Check that there's no metal-to-metal contact between the Sun and the chassis.


----------



## Doorknob

There's the problem lol.

 The green LEDs are not on, thanks for that.

 I'll get back on fixing it after coming from school.

 Can't wait.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_CC

 Two things come to mind after reading the link.....the first being...the coupling caps (stock ones) are there to scrub dc offset on the vcc/2 lines correct ?
 The second is to measure the new reg board for this component in the supply lines, if there is then deal with it via the onboard coupling caps (on the Zero mainboard) or try and scrub it with further bypass caps on the large electrolytic caps on the new reg board ?

 I plan on adding to all 8 filter caps on the new reg board 8 WIMA FKP 1 2200pf bypass caps anyway. We'll have to see what the new reg board does first via its measurements on the +15 -15 lines.

 Here is the link to the reg board and tranny plus schematic...

Welborne Labs PS1 Regulated Supply

 The idea of tapping in where the LM 337T 's are (in effect taking them out of the circuit ) isn't what I want to do. I want to keep that part of the topology intact. The real idea behind the mod is to not leave a permanent footprint, it has to be reversible with minimal tools, to unbolt the toroid etc...no soldering or pin cutting on the HDAMs. I have that worked out already, it's simple and elegant.

 The idea that has most merit to me is an external chassis to offload the transformers and the new reg board to. This will have two immediate benefits, isolating the power supply and reg board to another chassis and thus getting it's magnetic field, ac noise and other nasties away from the analog board. Second it will allow room for all the modules to be installed and use the stock cover in the Zero (with room to spare for future tweaks...like isolating the 3.3V line). I'm toying with bolting the 2 chassis's together either stacked or side by side. Direct wiring with no umbilical cables between the 2 chassis's. Simply route the power lines through one hole and keep the V+ V- line a couple inches away through there own hole. Of course I plan on using shielded cable for this...for good measure. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'm thinking of using the Lite Ah chassis for this...it can be had from DIY Gene for under 30 dollars and is perfect for this purpose. Simple, utilitarian and best of all will yield a superior SQ result...I hope 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What do you think CC and AP...Alex...is this the best overall approach ?

 One other question that comes to mind is where to locate the PS1 reg board ground...to what ground plane...the audio ground or the chassis ground ? My guess would be audio ground on the main pcb ...Would that be correct ?

 Thanks for all the great help you guys...this is far easier to understand with all your help....big thumbs up from Peete !!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Hi PP,

 I think your idea is good. But I think a check with Lawrence would be the best regarding ground connection. 

 Earlier the suggestion to connect the regulator to the LM337/317 is no good. Please try below. 

 First if using single OPA in the DAC is proven ok, then why not just connect the new regulator board output to the headphone board and see how it perform. If the result is no good, then only consider the dAC power supply upgrade.

 If u look at the headphone board, it is taking the power supply from the DAC board(just beside the relay).

 Check to see the voltage to the headphone board. If it is +- 15V, then may be u can connect your PS1 to the headphone..

 what do u think.

 to have a close look of headphone board, look at this.

http://www.tianyun100.com/products/jiemaqi/jiemaqi4.htm

 To have a look at dac board, this

http://www.tianyun100.com/products/jiemaqi/jiemaqi3.htm


----------



## katanka

Got my earth and sun today, put in earth first, and well, already i find the music more cleaner and it seams to flow easier, if that makes any sense. 

 I'm thinking about getting one of the new little dot mk 1+ Viewing a thread - NEW ! LD I+ Tube / transistors mixed Headphone Amp.

 If you notice it has an opamp, i wonder if i can replace it with HDAM


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi PP,

 I think your idea is good. But I think a check with Lawrence would be the best regarding ground connection. 

 Earlier the suggestion to connect the regulator to the LM337/317 is no good. Please try below. 

 First if using single OPA in the DAC is proven ok, then why not just connect the new regulator board output to the headphone board and see how it perform. If the result is no good, then only consider the dAC power supply upgrade.

 If u look at the headphone board, it is taking the power supply from the DAC board(just beside the relay).

 Check to see the voltage to the headphone board. If it is +- 15V, then may be u can connect your PS1 to the headphone..

 what do u think.

 to have a close look of headphone board, look at this.

http://www.tianyun100.com/products/jiemaqi/jiemaqi4.htm

 To have a look at dac board, this

http://www.tianyun100.com/products/jiemaqi/jiemaqi3.htm_

 

Hi CC,

 I see what your driving at. I still want to isolate all three HDAMs...the idea is a good one. One more question of note...pins 4 and 8 will not be connected from the HDAM to the stock supply at the DIP socket. Does that socket now require a jumper from pin 4 to 8 to allow the power to flow to the H/Amp section via the regular connection up by the relay ? The idea is to power everything else with the stock supply and power nothing but the HDAMs with the new reg board and transformer. I'm almost certain the PS1 reg board ground should be in the audio plane and not chassis. The H/Amp regs have been measured...they do indeed output 15 volts dc. Identical to the dac analog supply section...makes sense....

 I hope I've been able to explain the connection/jumper idea. The audio-gd extensions with be diverted from pin 4 and 8 at the male end, the leads will be sent to the new reg board +15 - 15 outputs....no pins to cut on the HDAM, meaning everything is reversible without touching the Zero DIPS or the HDAM pins..the extension is where things are modified slightly (jumper added to 4 and 8 if needed). I asked for separate extensions when I ordered my HDAMs (they have pins on them) from Kingwa so it makes this possible to do without much fuss.

 I think once the stock V+ V- jumper question is answered I'll be able to do this mod in an hour or two tops....20 minutes to try dry run, 2 hours to assemble everything into second chassis. I have a dummy chassis to use for the dry run..if it works as expected I'll order the real one...

 I just completed a huge mod on my MK III tube amp, added 5 PIO + 2 Teflon bypass caps....testing it right now...very nice initial impressions...of course way to early for a real judgment...the Teflons will take a lonnnnnnnnggggg time to form....sigh...

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *katanka* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got my earth and sun today, put in earth first, and well, already i find the music more cleaner and it seams to flow easier, if that makes any sense. 

 I'm thinking about getting one of the new little dot mk 1+ Viewing a thread - NEW ! LD I+ Tube / transistors mixed Headphone Amp.

 If you notice it has an opamp, i wonder if i can replace it with HDAM 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Now your talking 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I bet it can...

 Peete.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Peete how much hours of labor have you put on your Zero. Every time I read this thread I see you with a new mod on the Zero.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Peete how much hours of labor have you put on your Zero. Every time I read this thread I see you with a new mod on the Zero._

 

Well I haven't touched it for weeks...it was completed before I went on vacation Aug 4th. What I'm talking about is finding a solution for the 3 HDAM Zero...even though I won't use it until I go to the cottage once a year....the only thing I've done since Aug 4 is add 2 SUN modules (and Alps pot)...which as you know overtaxed the stock transformer....and in response to that development and those that want to run a Zero with 3 HDAMs, I'm exploring various way to do that and have the Zero sound it's absolute best...

 The mods that I have done to date take about 3.5 hours in total if you have good tools and have prepped the caps before hand. I have added new high quality RCA jacks and the pot upgrade along with my mod kit...

 Really not a lot of time....the parts count is 15 additions, 35 parts swapped for hi quality ones and 2 deletions (220pf ceramics at analog outs). The result is outstanding SQ....far beyond expectation in some respects, others it was expected.

 Peete.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Wow 3.5 hours is not that much for swapping 35 parts and adding 15 new ones and removing the 2 x 220pf ceramics at analog out. Was the removal worth it ? Also is there any chance you will have a complete list of all your mods that way I can try some of them.


----------



## glitch39

so when do we get to see the final mod line up, Peete? I'm excited already. Been monitoring the thread for a while now

 So far I've got the Earth and 1364's in there. all others are stock. Alps pot still out of stock.

 Thank you so much for all the contribution you have given here


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Yea can't wait for that final mod line up. Hope you don't mind me asking Peete but how much money have you spent on Zero mods?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow 3.5 hours is not that much for swapping 35 parts and adding 15 new ones and removing the 2 x 220pf ceramics at analog out. Was the removal worth it ? Also is there any chance you will have a complete list of all your mods that way I can try some of them._

 

If everything goes smoothly then 3.5 hours is reasonable...double that if you run into de soldering issues on some parts.

 The mod kit is in final testing...I will be making a completed kit available for those that wish to try it (for a small fee of course). I'm doing this solely for the fun of it and on my spare time...for the benefit of the Zero owners at Head Fi. Penchum will be responsible for the review and comparison to a bone stock Zero, the Head Fi deal Zero and the mod kit "FrankenZero" (TM LOL)...so there is a ton of work left to do for both of us ....I've decided to call my mods FrankenMOD...see sig....so far I have modified the MK III, MF X10 V3 buffer, HK HD720 CDP, AMC CD8b, Zero of course with the MeiXing MC -7R and MC34-AB stuff next in line. Learning three types of gear simultaneously, Amps, preamps, DAC's and CDPs....both tube and solid state.

 The parts list and all instructions for the FrankenZero will be released in a very short while once everything is ready to go...I still have parts coming in, some on back order from Digi-Key...the usual delays,snafus and such... I'm hoping to crack the 3 HDAM issue by end of next week....if everything goes by the numbers (they rarely do..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).












 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yea can't wait for that final mod line up. Hope you don't mind me asking Peete but how much money have you spent on Zero mods?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *glitch39* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so when do we get to see the final mod line up, Peete? I'm excited already. Been monitoring the thread for a while now

 So far I've got the Earth and 1364's in there. all others are stock. Alps pot still out of stock.

 Thank you so much for all the contribution you have given here_

 

Gosh thanks glitch39 !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I love doing this stuff and sharing the findings with others....

 Zero and HDAM cost 250US incl shipping, added 2 SUN, 2 free Earth 90US shipping incl, around 25 US in parts, don't know how much shipping cost..since I've had to source stuff from 3 continents for the kit, 10US for the Alps pot, 10US for the RCA jacks....

 about 395 in total....I know what your going to say...is it worth it....I'll let the SQ speak for itself. 

 A regular Zero upgraded with 1 HDAM and the kit using the LT1364's in the head amp works out to 139 + 40 + 50 + ? (kit) = 260 US or less....for an outstanding result, way less than what I've invested...I've had to test all the different ideas so far...so that gets expensive...the Welborne Labs PS1 reg board and transformer is 138US incl/shipping.....I need to explore the 3 HDAM config...since it may be possible to boost SQ even further with the concept. If not I can use that sep supply and reg board for another DAC project I've been working on...the Super (based on a really hi end chip set and design).

 Sheesh forgot all about that one, till now....... FrankenDAC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








 Peete.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Well I want to try the removal of the ceramics of the analog out. Where exactly is that located and how do i remove them? Also is there a worthy sound improvement or did you remove them for some other reason?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

There is a slight increase in clarity/air in the top end. They are the two tiny ceramic discs right by the analog outputs. Just snip them out...

 Peete.


----------



## dario

great Peete, but this thread is too big imho...


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Peete the oranges ones near the RCA output?


----------



## katanka

Okay, just a couple hours in, and i am really impressed so far with the Earth, have yet to try the sun, but i will go the whole weekend with the earth


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Peete the oranges ones near the RCA output?_

 

They are tiny with the numbers 22 printed on the pcb beside them, meaning 220pf. They are the only ceramic discs at the rca output I believe. I need my magnifying glasses to have a closer look....(old fart that I am) LOL....yep that's them, printed underneath is 22P.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *katanka* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Okay, just a couple hours in, and i am really impressed so far with the Earth, have yet to try the sun, but i will go the whole weekend with the earth_

 

It gets better and better as more hours pass......

 Peete.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Just cut them off and that is it? Or do i have to remove the ceramic discs carefully then connect the wire back together without the discs? Sorry for the questions just don't want to break the zero, just want to improve it. :-D


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dario* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_great Peete, but this thread is too big imho..._

 

When the kit is launched ( I agree this thread is too big) a new DIY Zero thread for mods will be created in the DIY section of the forum...this thread will lose 85% of it's current traffic.... 
 Pench and I don't want to create the new thread until the review is done and the kit is ready. 

 All details on how to order etc..will then be posted to that thread....I have no idea how many people this kit will interest.....so I'm only stocking a limited number of kits at first so I'm not stuck with a pile of parts and no buyers...

 It'll be a reasonable cost kit.....no ridiculous mark up like well known other web kits. And it will only be available to Head Fi members. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just cut them off and that is it? Or do i have to remove the ceramic discs carefully then connect the wire back together without the discs? Sorry for the questions just don't want to break the zero, just want to improve it. :-D_

 

Nope, just cut em out. 8 posts away from 1K...wow I yap a lot...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They are tiny with the numbers 22 printed on the pcb beside them, meaning 220pf. They are the only ceramic discs at the rca output I believe. I need my magnifying glasses to have a closer look....(old fart that I am) LOL....yep that's them, printed underneath is 22P.

 Peete._

 

There are also 2 of them located on the headphone amplifier board. They can be safely removed with no ill-effect but the same increase in "air" through the headphones as the RCA outs - I did it a while ago, and did document it but can't remember how many hundreds of pages ago it was... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl..


----------



## ScottieB

^ So it begs the question - why are these discs there in the first place? I understand upgrading parts to better ones, but I don't really understand why something would be there that is BAD for the unit???


----------



## AudioPhewl

^My thoughts from a few pages back:-
Review: ZERO 24 BIT/192KHz DAC/Headphone Amp/Pre-Amp - Page 520 - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

 ~Phewl.


----------



## ScottieB

Thanks, AP... I thought I remembered reading that... but I'll be damned if I'm gonna read this whole thread AGAIN! Haha... think I'll try this one out!


----------



## Enthusia

I want dibs on those special parts! I've already done what I could with the zero in terms of modifying it.


----------



## dario

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When the kit is launched ( I agree this thread is too big) a new DIY Zero thread for mods will be created in the DIY section of the forum...this thread will lose 85% of it's current traffic.... 
 Pench and I don't want to create the new thread until the review is done and the kit is ready. 

 All details on how to order etc..will then be posted to that thread....I have no idea how many people this kit will interest.....so I'm only stocking a limited number of kits at first so I'm not stuck with a pile of parts and no buyers...

 It'll be a reasonable cost kit.....no ridiculous mark up like well known other web kits. And it will only be available to Head Fi members. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






 Peete._

 

Peete, your kit will need only basic soldering skill?


----------



## AudioPhewl

^My understanding is yes. From what I've seen, then so long as you're okay with a soldering iron, and can differentiate the negative side of a capacitor from the positive, then you'll be fine.

 A solder sucker is mandatory though. The Zero DAC PCBs tend to try and block the component holes when removing components. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^My understanding is yes. From what I've seen, then so long as you're okay with a soldering iron, and can differentiate the negative side of a capacitor from the positive, then you'll be fine.

 A solder sucker is mandatory though. The Zero DAC PCBs tend to try and block the component holes when removing components. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 

X2 on the solder sucker. Also, heat shrinking is required, so a heat gun, the heat shrink, and patience are required.


----------



## sennsay

Originally Posted by Booo 
 The LT1028 in two DACs, a Super Pro 707 and a Musiland SVDAC05. It's not rolled off in the treble (hey, has 70 MHz of bandwidth, how could it be?), it's rather a little silky soft. Yep, that's also my little complaint with it - fortunately it is made up for by a wonderfully transparent midrange (more transparent than that of the LT1364).

 The LT1361 is the next you would have to try. Has less midbass than the 1364, yet fuller vocals. Also has slightly better midrange transparency. It's my favorite of the LT13xx line (and, funnily, the very first LT I tried, a couple of years ago). That's not to say that the LT1364 isn't great!


 Besides, the LT1361 has less stability issues than the LT1364. Ah, finally you would want to try the LT1358, which is slightly darker and smoother.

 Actually, Booo, after some playing around with other combos I went back to the 1028s in KHA and then hit the revelation ... keep 1364 in the DAC. This combo in my system is just magic! The Senn 540Rs are singing like they have never really have before, though it is different than what I have been hearing for many years on them and has taken some getting used to. Instead of a highly detailed and open sound stage out of the head, that is a little light-on in the bass and sensitive in the upper mids, it has now taken on a signature much more like using my tube pre-amp where it's more around the head and closer WHILE being fuller, tight and clean in the bass and the mids ... oh the mids are delicious! Treble is not rolled off now though, as you say, it has taken on a silky clarity, not something I have ever heard from the Senns before. The sound has become much more involving as opposed (?) to an analytical experience. The 540s have always been great cans at rhythmic integrity and they now have all of that and more. I lulled myself into a beautiful sleepy place until almost 1 AM with beautiful choral music. 

 Ooo .. a little knock on the door .....

 WOOOHOOOO!!!! HDAMs R US! Two Suns and two Earths. Man that was quick after a long delay in getting them out of China, here in 3 days flat. Next stop, HD650s! Who's a happy boy then?

 PS. Pete and Pench, vol pot is excellent, as you say. Worth doing, though one of the earth legs was a bit dodgy and needed some repair.
 I am going to go now, I have bits to plug in!


----------



## AudioPhewl

Are you staying with us this time, Andrea? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Is this you? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Flickr: Andrea In Japan

 ~Phewl.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I haven't touched it for weeks...it was completed before I went on vacation Aug 4th. What I'm talking about is finding a solution for the 3 HDAM Zero...even though I won't use it until I go to the cottage once a year....the only thing I've done since Aug 4 is add 2 SUN modules (and Alps pot)...which as you know overtaxed the stock transformer....and in response to that development and those that want to run a Zero with 3 HDAMs, I'm exploring various way to do that and have the Zero sound it's absolute best...

 The mods that I have done to date take about 3.5 hours in total if you have good tools and have prepped the caps before hand. I have added new high quality RCA jacks and the pot upgrade along with my mod kit...

 Really not a lot of time....the parts count is 15 additions, 35 parts swapped for hi quality ones and 2 deletions (220pf ceramics at analog outs). The result is outstanding SQ....far beyond expectation in some respects, others it was expected.

 Peete._

 

Hey PP, did you not even replace the 220pf caps with anything else? Swapping ceramics to polystyrene is often something I do and this is nto something you have done? 
 I have put an Earth module into the DAC ......... wow .... even with a short warm-up it transforms all aspects of music, doesn't it. Choral music is a huge test and a Tavener track called "Song For Athene" and it is utterly beautiful and soaring, yet gentle at the same time. Ohhhhh ....... this is going to open up some musical doorways and isn't that exactly what a decent hifi system is for? To expand our awareness and enjoyment of music. I co-created a hifi/audio club in the early '80s and it's still going, believe it or not, for that very reason (Hawkes Bay Audio Club).
 Sigh, I love it.

 PS Ok, belay the ceramic cap question, I missed a couple of pages this morning! Snip snip.


----------



## AudioPhewl

The Earth is worth persevering with, Mr Japan. Give it a few days for your ears to adjust and you might find all sorts of little detail that previously escaped your attention 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 The Sun is bolder and sharper, but less natural.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Now you know why I got to thinking about taking the Zero/HDAM combo further...the base SQ with the HDAM is great already...so I said to Pench how much farther do you think we can take this little bugger up the SQ ladder ? The first consideration was to make the entire kit revolve around a low cost ideal and not stray from that....Here we are with the kit 8 weeks later.....goal met...and how...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I didn't replace them...they are a curious left over from an era when specs meant more than overall SQ. Think back to the intro of CD...IT HAD TO HAVE ZERO HISS 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 even it that meant rolling off the highs to get it...(sorry about yelling...it's like a quote from an early SONY ad...perfect sound forever...yada yada yada 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Relay pops and ticks have disappeared...so I never put the silver micas back in. That was a curious effect I had when going out to the main rig when I took out the 220pf caps at first...that weirdness has disappeared I'm happy to say...that tweak tip is included in the kit instructions free of charge LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	















 Peete.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *biginjapan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did not have such an enthusiastic impression of the EARTH, coming from the LT1028. But I shall try again._

 

I still have the 1028s in KHA for now, just one change at a time for a little bit. 1028s still sound very good indeed with Earth ahead of them, probably as it ought to be with a fine DAC output. I haven't bothered with the extensions, just plugged 'er in. 
 With 1364s in the Zeros amp and Earth up front and the 1028s in KHA, I am amazed at how much better the 600 ohm Senn 540s are sounding, it's like they're not even the same cans anymore, so I figure they must be being driven properly for maybe the first time in their very healthy 18 year+ life. An extraordinary transformation! 
 Zero amp sounds terrific now, if not quite as open and free of the cans as KHA, though much closer than it used to be.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now you know why I got to thinking about taking the Zero/HDAM combo further...the base SQ with the HDAM is great already...so I said to Pench how much farther do you think we can take take little bugger up the SQ ladder ? The first consideration was to make the entire kit revolve around a low cost ideal and not stray from that....Here we are with the kit 8 weeks later.....goal met...and how...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

When is the big kit released, Peeeeete?

 It's funny, I'm sure Penchum wrote a while back that you were ready to put those tiny capacitors back in because of the relay noise. I've not experienced such problems with mine...

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

biginjapan=Andrea + opamp BS = useless information for those with a Zero.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When is the big kit released, Peeeeete?

 It's funny, I'm sure Penchum wrote a while back that you were ready to put those tiny capacitors back in because of the relay noise. I've not experienced such problems with mine...

 ~Phewl._

 

See my post on page 632,it's all there what happened AP....seems to have gone poof....dunno why it was doing it in the first place....

 Peete.

 PS Soon, AP real soon..not much longer now.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Lots of stuff yet to do...this has been a monumental task for both of us (Pench and I).


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_See my post on page 632,it's all there what happened AP....seems to have gone poof....dunno why it was doing it in the first place....

 Peete.

 PS Soon, AP real soon..not much longer now.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Lots of stuff yet to do...this has been a monumental task for both of us (Pench and I)._

 

Don't forget mine is on hold already!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

LOL...Oh yeah Diego...PM me with a reminder when the kit is launched...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll write that down....man my eyes are going crossed...haven't slept much in the last 3 er 4 or is it 5 + weeks ?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Peete.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Originally Posted by Booo 
 The LT1028 in two DACs, a Super Pro 707 and a Musiland SVDAC05. It's not rolled off in the treble (hey, has 70 MHz of bandwidth, how could it be?), it's rather a little silky soft. Yep, that's also my little complaint with it - fortunately it is made up for by a wonderfully transparent midrange (more transparent than that of the LT1364).

 The LT1361 is the next you would have to try. Has less midbass than the 1364, yet fuller vocals. Also has slightly better midrange transparency. It's my favorite of the LT13xx line (and, funnily, the very first LT I tried, a couple of years ago). That's not to say that the LT1364 isn't great!


 Besides, the LT1361 has less stability issues than the LT1364. Ah, finally you would want to try the LT1358, which is slightly darker and smoother.

 Actually, Booo, after some playing around with other combos I went back to the 1028s in KHA and then hit the revelation ... keep 1364 in the DAC. This combo in my system is just magic! The Senn 540Rs are singing like they have never really have before, though it is different than what I have been hearing for many years on them and has taken some getting used to. Instead of a highly detailed and open sound stage out of the head, that is a little light-on in the bass and sensitive in the upper mids, it has now taken on a signature much more like using my tube pre-amp where it's more around the head and closer WHILE being fuller, tight and clean in the bass and the mids ... oh the mids are delicious! Treble is not rolled off now though, as you say, it has taken on a silky clarity, not something I have ever heard from the Senns before. The sound has become much more involving as opposed (?) to an analytical experience. The 540s have always been great cans at rhythmic integrity and they now have all of that and more. I lulled myself into a beautiful sleepy place until almost 1 AM with beautiful choral music. 

 Ooo .. a little knock on the door .....

 WOOOHOOOO!!!! HDAMs R US! Two Suns and two Earths. Man that was quick after a long delay in getting them out of China, here in 3 days flat. Next stop, HD650s! Who's a happy boy then?

 PS. Pete and Pench, vol pot is excellent, as you say. Worth doing, though one of the earth legs was a bit dodgy and needed some repair.
 I am going to go now, I have bits to plug in!_

 

FYI: In case you and the other newer posters in this thread hadn't noticed yet, Boooo was Andrea again! See here: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f11/at...t-life-288523/ He doesn't have a working Zero, never has, so take anything posted from him as "background noise, soon to be deleted" and ignore him.

 He is easy to spot. If you see a new poster, going on about how wonderful LT1028's, LT1361's, Super DAC Pro 707's or Musiland SVDAC05's are, or how crappy OPA627's, LT1364's or HDAM's are, it will be Andrea 99.9% of the time.


----------



## sennsay

HDAM Earth rocks, it swings, it grooves, it sings ...... bugger even great op-amps when you can have this!! Just heard the instruction from the drummer in Bucky Pizzarelli's band to the other muso's to close out the piece, on Chesky, that I've never heard before. Obvious yet quietly spoken. THIS is what adds to effect of a real performance, all these little extra details from the musicians, in the crowd .... fantastic! Thanks again to Pete and Pench and Head-Fi for this awesome thread that has added so many dimensions to my musical enjoyment!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			










 PS Penchum, no I didn't know that, re your above comments. What IS that?
 Have put the second Earth into KHA and am gobsmacked by the effortless dynamics, transparency etc. I ain't going back!


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is a slight increase in clarity/air in the top end. They are the two tiny ceramic discs right by the analog outputs. Just snip them out...

 Peete._

 

I snip that too.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Pench thanks for the get a life link...haven't seen that one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 LOL...

 S-Man...wait till the darn thing has burned in ....unreal bass,imaging,timbre...all the good stuff...++++


 Peete.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pench thanks for the get a life link...haven't seen that one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 LOL...

 S-Man...wait till the darn thing has burned in ....unreal bass,imaging,timbre...all the good stuff...++++


 Peete._

 

 Peete, mate, this is going to be a wonderful journey! I literally haven't been this excited by music for years. I have Earth in Dac and Earth in KHA now ..... the S-Man is groovin', doing little dances with the cans on, grinning like an idiot and I am sooo looking forward to the burn! I can barely leave the house, but I do want to catch the Saturday market so I'm going to leave things warming up for a bit. And then there will be the arrival of the Senn 650s later in the week ...... hubba hubba
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Heh heh, Earth to S-Man


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pench thanks for the get a life link...haven't seen that one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 LOL...

 S-Man...wait till the darn thing has burned in ....unreal bass,imaging,timbre...all the good stuff...++++


 Peete._

 

Talking about crowd on songs..... there's a song Hi-Fi record, I really can't remember now what was.... that I was hearing through my 650 but then I hit zero to line out and suddenly a big sound of crowd came from mine diy speaker (JBL coaxil speaker).... then I though... ok.. it's the tweeter reproducing that.... but shouldn't 650 also make me realize that detail ? then I switched back to look for it on 650 and it was kind of hidden among the music............
 This makes me wonder.... will Earth deliver this detail on 650 or it was just not natural from the recording ?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

How many hours on your 650's Diego ? Could be the home made JBL's are really really bright....

 Peete.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How many hours on your 650's Diego ? Could be the home made JBL's are really really bright....

 Peete._

 

Not much... but I reallly lost count.... something around 110-135

 And yes, this speaker is really bright


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi CC,

 I see what your driving at. I still want to isolate all three HDAMs...the idea is a good one. One more question of note...pins 4 and 8 will not be connected from the HDAM to the stock supply at the DIP socket. Does that socket now require a jumper from pin 4 to 8 to allow the power to flow to the H/Amp section via the regular connection up by the relay ? The idea is to power everything else with the stock supply and power nothing but the HDAMs with the new reg board and transformer. I'm almost certain the PS1 reg board ground should be in the audio plane and not chassis. The H/Amp regs have been measured...they do indeed output 15 volts dc. Identical to the dac analog supply section...makes sense....

 I hope I've been able to explain the connection/jumper idea. The audio-gd extensions with be diverted from pin 4 and 8 at the male end, the leads will be sent to the new reg board +15 - 15 outputs....no pins to cut on the HDAM, meaning everything is reversible without touching the Zero DIPS or the HDAM pins..the extension is where things are modified slightly (jumper added to 4 and 8 if needed). I asked for separate extensions when I ordered my HDAMs (they have pins on them) from Kingwa so it makes this possible to do without much fuss.

 I think once the stock V+ V- jumper question is answered I'll be able to do this mod in an hour or two tops....20 minutes to try dry run, 2 hours to assemble everything into second chassis. I have a dummy chassis to use for the dry run..if it works as expected I'll order the real one...

 I just completed a huge mod on my MK III tube amp, added 5 PIO + 2 Teflon bypass caps....testing it right now...very nice initial impressions...of course way to early for a real judgment...the Teflons will take a lonnnnnnnnggggg time to form....sigh...

 Peete._

 

It took me about 5 times to read thru your minds, so that I dont misunderstand your thots! and also my lack of knowledge on electronics is draining on me.

 I agree with on the need to isolate the supply (analog and digital). That will boost the supply stability to the DAC, receiver and logic circuit.

 "I'm almost certain the PS1 reg board ground should be in the audio plane and not chassis. " -> Please connect the PS 1 ground to the RCA ground. This is a recommended practise.

 "Does that socket now require a jumper from pin 4 to 8 to allow the power to flow to the H/Amp section via the regular connection up by the relay " -> Good thots, I totally miss this relay thingy. They are 2 relays, 1 relay for the RCA output and the other for the headphone output. This relay will be turned on after the digital and analog has stabilised in 2-3 seconds, right. Regarding your direct connection from PS1 to the pin 4 and pin 8, I think you still need the service of coupling capacitor just before it. what do you think? Perhaps u try the direct connection (without coupling cap) and see the sound difference with the coupling cap (audio-gd still think the coupling cap is improtant, that 2 cap just below the opa in the DAC). 

 So to connect the V+ AND v- to the headphone board is tricky. It should be connected to the input of replay, so that when the relay enegised, the supply is connected to the headphone board. Can u just trace the circuit or using meter to check its connection. Easy way out would be dirrect power connection to the OPA again.

 One last thing and hope I am not asking for too much, is there a schematic diagram of this ZERO dac.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not much... but I reallly lost count.... something around 110-135

 And yes, this speaker is really bright 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Seems like a combination of the two. The HD-650's can use about 250ish before matured, and the overly bright speaker will show the details as brighter.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Seems like a combination of the two. The HD-650's can use about 250ish before matured, and the overly bright speaker will show the details as brighter. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

yeah.. that must be it Penchum, because the different is big on this specific detail, yet 650 sound way better than this speaker.... it's really isn't a good speaker... it's a mid to low line of JBL car's line speakers....


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It took me about 5 times to read thru your minds, so that I dont misunderstand your thots! and also my lack of knowledge on electronics is draining on me.

 I agree with on the need to isolate the supply (analog and digital). That will boost the supply stability to the DAC, receiver and logic circuit.

 "I'm almost certain the PS1 reg board ground should be in the audio plane and not chassis. " -> Please connect the PS 1 ground to the RCA ground. This is a recommended practise.

 "Does that socket now require a jumper from pin 4 to 8 to allow the power to flow to the H/Amp section via the regular connection up by the relay " -> Good thots, I totally miss this relay thingy. They are 2 relays, 1 relay for the RCA output and the other for the headphone output. This relay will be turned on after the digital and analog has stabilised in 2-3 seconds, right. Regarding your direct connection from PS1 to the pin 4 and pin 8, I think you still need the service of coupling capacitor just before it. what do you think? Perhaps u try the direct connection (without coupling cap) and see the sound difference with the coupling cap (audio-gd still think the coupling cap is improtant, that 2 cap just below the opa in the DAC). 

 So to connect the V+ AND v- to the headphone board is tricky. It should be connected to the input of replay, so that when the relay enegised, the supply is connected to the headphone board. Can u just trace the circuit or using meter to check its connection. Easy way out would be dirrect power connection to the OPA again.

 One last thing and hope I am not asking for too much, is there a schematic diagram of this ZERO dac._

 

Hi CC,

 Hmmm you've brought up some interesting points to ponder. I wonder if the relay is after the opamp...as in when it senses a rise in voltage it disengages the mute on the circuit. Not sure at all how the relays are set up in this DAC.

 The coupling cap can be explored if the reg board has dc offset on the +15 -15 lines...if it doesn't the cap is counterproductive to SQ is it not ? The less crap on the circuit the better...is my take on things. Are you talking about the two large(bigger than the rest of the box caps) blue box caps on either side of the DAC DIP ? Doesn't the front panel switch for the headphone amp engage the H/Amp relay ? If so direct hook up of V+ V- to the HDAMs should be alright. I could be wrong about that, but that is logical.

 I've emailed Lawrence about all this but he has not responded with anything useful. I don't think he understood what I was asking him. The language barrier must be the culprit. I'm sure if I spoke Mandarin or Cantonese..we'd have answers pretty quickly....we will muddle onward through the fog 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 I'll see if I can dig up a schematic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Great points CC, keep them coming !!!

 Peete.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pench thanks for the get a life link...haven't seen that one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 LOL...

 S-Man...wait till the darn thing has burned in ....unreal bass,imaging,timbre...all the good stuff...++++


 Peete._

 

You are welcome. Good reading that! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Here is an update on the stock Zero with "earth" in the DAC, LT1364's in the headphone amp, and a few other thoughts:

 I have about 250 hours on the "earth" module. It appears to be mature, and the DAC output to my MKV is sweet! Very dynamic and detailed! The internal headphone amp sounds very nice too, but it lacks that final improvement that the "cap" mod brings to the HDAMs output, in the DAC section. I have little doubt, that the results with the "cap" mod on the "earth", would sound equal too and maybe better than, the first model HDAM with "cap" mod.

 I'll have to test this eventually. The "cap" mod really made the first model HDAM much more dynamic, detailed and sweet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It seems like every time an HDAM gets hit with a super dynamic note, the "cap" appears to give it immediate power for the initial attack, and to keep the note sustained as long as required. Without the "cap", the dynamic notes seem to have less attack, and it sounds like it has too much decay. I've also verified this in the DAC100 I'm testing right now, including both the "earth" and "sun", so this need for the "cap" mod, seems universal for all the HDAMs.

 As usual, I'll test this "cap" modding on the "earth and "sun", as soon as the caps get here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That will take some time, but it will be well worth the wait, when I'm done. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm still looking around for the best method of "attaching" the cap to the HDAM, so it takes up less space. I have a couple of things coming in the mail, that will hopefully pan out to be a low cost, protected method.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Good stuff Pench....Hmm HDAM rev 2 (Earth) may be better than Rev 1 (both with cap tweaks)...cool.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Peete.

 PS Yay post number.....


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good stuff Pench....Hmm HDAM rev 2 (Earth) may be better than Rev 1 (both with cap tweaks)...cool.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Peete.

 PS Yay post number.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Congratulations on the 1K posting! Your input for the users here is "highly valued" and I feel the same! Only 500 to go bro!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Thanks bro !!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








 now I'm blushing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What happens when I hit 1500 ?

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

CC....no luck with finding a schematic yet...I sent LC an email..hopefully he can help with that.

 Peete.


----------



## sennsay

PP, what are the PIO caps, please? I am familiar with polyprop, 'styrene, etc but not the PIO vernacular.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PP, what are the PIO caps, please? I am familiar with polyprop, 'styrene, etc but not the PIO vernacular._

 

PIO = Paper In Oil. 

 The particular caps I use are NOS (70's) Russian Mil Spec PIO and the King of all audio caps (IMHO) Russian NOS MIL Spec Teflons. They are outstanding caps SQ wise... factor in the cheap price of them (even the Teflons are cheap compared to Western equivalents like CVH V-Cap) and they are unbeatable IMHO. The one drawback to the Teflon caps is they are HUGE.

 PM me with your email address S-Man and I'll send you a pic comparing 2 PIO caps to two Teflons....plus a bonus pic of what I did today to the MK III 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 I love their sound qualities, they seem to have no flaws I can detect.

 Hope that sheds some light 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PIO = Paper In Oil. 

 The particular caps I use are NOS (70's) Russian Mil Spec PIO and the King of all audio caps (IMHO) Russian NOS MIL Spec Teflons. They are outstanding caps SQ wise... factor in the cheap price of them (even the Teflons are cheap compared to Western equivalents like CVH V-Cap) and they are unbeatable IMHO. The one drawback to the Teflon caps is they are HUGE.

 PM me with your email address S-Man and I'll send you a pic comparing 2 PIO caps to two Teflons....plus a bonus pic of what I did today to the MK III 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 I love their sound qualities, they seem to have no flaws I can detect.

 Hope that sheds some light 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Cheers muchly, Peete, I'm onto it.


----------



## ccschua

I didnt catch the mod on cap for hdam. is it refering to inserting a 0.1 to 1 uf cap across pin4 and 8 of this one.

Burson discrete Opamp 101


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi CC,

 Hmmm you've brought up some interesting points to ponder. I wonder if the relay is after the opamp...as in when it senses a rise in voltage it disengages the mute on the circuit. Not sure at all how the relays are set up in this DAC.

 The coupling cap can be explored if the reg board has dc offset on the +15 -15 lines...if it doesn't the cap is counterproductive to SQ is it not ? The less crap on the circuit the better...is my take on things. Are you talking about the two large(bigger than the rest of the box caps) blue box caps on either side of the DAC DIP ? Doesn't the front panel switch for the headphone amp engage the H/Amp relay ? If so direct hook up of V+ V- to the HDAMs should be alright. I could be wrong about that, but that is logical.

 I've emailed Lawrence about all this but he has not responded with anything useful. I don't think he understood what I was asking him. The language barrier must be the culprit. I'm sure if I spoke Mandarin or Cantonese..we'd have answers pretty quickly....we will muddle onward through the fog 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 I'll see if I can dig up a schematic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Great points CC, keep them coming !!!

 Peete._

 

"Are you talking about the two large(bigger than the rest of the box caps) blue box caps on either side of the DAC DIP ?" I am not sure, but the 4 units of red with gold wording ELNA cap might be the coupling cap. 2 for 15V, 2 for 3.3V?? 

 I used to hear a pop sound on speaker on certain dac that is direct out. While the zero dac come with relay that will delay the output after it stabilise. so direct connection might give u a pop sound if the amp or headphone is switched on. if u follow the switch sequence (means dac first b4 amp and dont plug in the headphone, that will be ok). again this is just my 'theory ' on the pop stuff.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks bro !!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 now I'm blushing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What happens when I hit 1500 ?

 Peete._

 

You ascend toward the heavens, and are bestowed the title of "Headphoneus Supremus". Destiny awaits you!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Heres a test photo (if it works) showing PIO and Teflon caps. The largest in physical size is only .22uf 600V, then .1 uf 600V, then .033uf 500V, PIO 1uf 160V, and last..PIO .033uf 500V.







 I hope this works, inserting the pic. I signed up at photo bucket for now...

 Peete.

 Yes...finally have pics to share


----------



## taso89

Hey everyone,

 I e-mailed the folks at audio-gd about the OPA's availability and perhaps another promotion and they had this to say:

 " Hi! Alan:
 We have out of stock ,but will in stock at 15- Sep,
 When we have stock, we will have some promote of price.
 Kingwa"






 One hunded posts! woot!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

A night shot of the 3 HDAM FrankenZero 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 It's a crappy image

 Day shot of FrankenZero with MK III, MF X10 V3,HK HD720 CDP,JVC DVD-A changer






 The stain on the lid of the CDP is permanent...I need to repaint the cover 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Vinyl coated steel chassis top..impossible to clean and I tried everything. The darn CDP was in storage for years then I Modified it, upgraded 95 % of the main pcb, including new Tentlabs X02 + power supply and put it back into service. The reason why I spent the $$$ on this CDP was because it uses discrete outputs for the analog outs and has a very good BB-1710UK DAC...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You are welcome. Good reading that! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Here is an update on the stock Zero with "earth" in the DAC, LT1364's in the headphone amp, and a few other thoughts:

 I have about 250 hours on the "earth" module. It appears to be mature, and the DAC output to my MKV is sweet! Very dynamic and detailed! The internal headphone amp sounds very nice too, but it lacks that final improvement that the "cap" mod brings to the HDAMs output, in the DAC section. I have little doubt, that the results with the "cap" mod on the "earth", would sound equal too and maybe better than, the first model HDAM with "cap" mod.

 I'll have to test this eventually. The "cap" mod really made the first model HDAM much more dynamic, detailed and sweet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It seems like every time an HDAM gets hit with a super dynamic note, the "cap" appears to give it immediate power for the initial attack, and to keep the note sustained as long as required. Without the "cap", the dynamic notes seem to have less attack, and it sounds like it has too much decay. I've also verified this in the DAC100 I'm testing right now, including both the "earth" and "sun", so this need for the "cap" mod, seems universal for all the HDAMs.

 As usual, I'll test this "cap" modding on the "earth and "sun", as soon as the caps get here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That will take some time, but it will be well worth the wait, when I'm done. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm still looking around for the best method of "attaching" the cap to the HDAM, so it takes up less space. I have a couple of things coming in the mail, that will hopefully pan out to be a low cost, protected method. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hi Penchuum,

 Can I know if u are using the long cable (about 6 in right) with the HDAM. When u listen to Earth, are u using the same long cable as well ?


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Hey I just noticed that my Earth and Sun's have built in extensions. I can't install them directly without the wire. What is up with that?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

You have to order them specify the way you want your leads done otherwise you get the long leads coming straight from the HDAM itself rather than having pins...the advantage to that is one less connection in the signal chain which is good for SQ. 

 Does that make sense ?

 Peete.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

I did not know i had to order them with pins. I just thought it automatically came like that. Thanks again Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Your welcome LeBuLLeT...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Peete.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You have to order them specify the way you want your leads done otherwise you get the long leads coming straight from the HDAM itself rather than having pins...the advantage to that is one less connection in the signal chain which is good for SQ. 

 Does that make sense ?

 Peete._

 

Actually, Kingwa has told me that all the HDAMs come only with separate leads now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Mine came this morning neatly packaged separately. I haven't bothered connecting the earth leads either, both Zero and KHA are totally silent.


----------



## ccschua

The Sept 15 OPA stock will be modified with 2 coupling capacitor to improve on the usage of extension wires.


----------



## Nedman

My Pricklely Peete, now I know why you've been calling it a FrankenZero LOL.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A night shot of the 3 HDAM FrankenZero 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's a crappy image

 Day shot of FrankenZero with MK III, MF X10 V3,HK HD720 CDP,JVC DVD-A changer

 The stain on the lid of the CDP is permanent...I need to repaint the cover 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Vinyl coated steel chassis top..impossible to clean and I tried everything. The darn CDP was in storage for years then I Modified it, upgraded 95 % of the main pcb, including new Tentlabs X02 + power supply and put it back into service. The reason why I spent the $$$ on this CDP was because it uses discrete outputs for the analog outs and has a very good BB-1710UK DAC...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 


 I loved the big caps on the zero board....... I suspect soon mine will have it too..


----------



## dario

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Sept 15 OPA stock will be modified with 2 coupling capacitor to improve on the usage of extension wires._

 

Than new Hdam will have this change just done?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Penchuum,

 Can I know if u are using the long cable (about 6 in right) with the HDAM. When u listen to Earth, are u using the same long cable as well ?_

 

Mine have the separate wires soldered on to the module and then the male pin socket. They are about 10cm in length.

 Just to clarify, the cap mod PP and I have done to the first model of HDAM, is for sound quality purposes. I don't remember reading that it was to compensate for longer connection leads, but I've slept since then. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Have we caused you some confusion on this??


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nedman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Pricklely Peete, now I know why you've been calling it a FrankenZero LOL._

 

You gotta admit, it has a certain "charm" to it.


----------



## dario

It will be possible "organise" a full modded zero (without hdam for who have bought them directly) with Lawrence?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dario* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It will be possible "organise" a full modded zero (without hdam for who have bought them directly) with Lawrence?_

 

Nope.....no beating around the bush today...don't have time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually, Kingwa has told me that all the HDAMs come only with separate leads now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Mine came this morning neatly packaged separately. I haven't bothered connecting the earth leads either, both Zero and KHA are totally silent. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That's great....means far less failures of the delicate wiring...don't know why Kingwa and audio-gd didn't do it this way to begin with.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Hi CC,

 LC emailed me with this to say

 "Dear Sir ,



 Please separate the pin 4 and 7 from the mainboard, use your regulator supply for it.



 Thank you very much !



 Best regards,

 Lawrence "


 Whats your take on this ? He didn't provide a schematic...I guess he doesn't want it out there for others to copy...makes sense I suppose.

 According to the Burson page this pin assignment is 






 Thing is for the dual channel HDAM, the cap tweak is pins 4 and 8 while a single channel HDAM it is 4 and 7....What LC ?

 Peete.


----------



## ccschua

Ooops. Looks like Lawrence is too busy to carefully check the question. At least Kingwa try to put himself into my position.

 I am eager to know the outcome once yr regulator board arrive for a test.

 Lets see if the humps are intrinsic problems or due to resource draining. Since whatever u do is 'non destructive and easily reversible', I have no further concern.


----------



## ccschua

I can sense angrea again


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Hi guys 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sorry about all the pics....one more...the inside of the HK and it's new clock board + reg power supply* (not wired in but on it's ceramic tile base at that time, it's all done now). *This will soon be updated with it's own reg board and transformer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The SONY transport in it is the top of the line..so that was another reason to upgrade this CDP. It plays all discs thrown at it...CDR's burned to redbook standard...something the AMC CD8b wouldn't do...oddly enough...(same transport in it).

 Yes that is rope caulking...excellent stuff for mass loading and dampening a flimsy chassis with. The tile is my own recipe "constrained layer" device. The rubber legs of the clock board are super glued to the tile.






 This source feeding the FrankenZero via coax is very very good now...before all the mods were done it was horrid and lifeless...Took me quite a while to tap into the right spot for the clock board, the 12V DC supply was the easy part 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

The computer as transport to the FrankenZero is still the best IMO...although the HK and Ah ! Super Tjoeb 4000 (ref palyer in main rig) are great in their own right.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Andrea alert......for Christ's sake Andrea...get a life...and stop posting here...bloody worthless information folks...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Colmo dei Colmi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, you know...differently from the duals, the single opamps have the + power supply on pin 7 (not 8). It's like that._

 

No crap .....really ? (major sarcasm alert) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Colmo dei Colmi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL, should I get a life... and you instead... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

....ignore list...

 Ban and post removal soon to follow....

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ooops. Looks like Lawrence is too busy to carefully check the question. At least Kingwa try to put himself into my position.

 I am eager to know the outcome once yr regulator board arrive for a test.

 Lets see if the humps are intrinsic problems or due to resource draining. Since whatever u do is 'non destructive and easily reversible', I have no further concern._

 

Agreed CC,

 I don't blame LC for the lack of understanding...the poor guy is up to his neck in orders. He's trying at least, and that's what counts in my book 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yeah the outcome of the original concept can be easily tested and reversed if need be...and I do agree with the SQ "humps" being effected by a leaned out supply...that makes terrific sense that it would drastically alter the final SQ outcome...almost like severe clipping lops off the top and bottom of the sign wave due to no head room left in the power supply and output transistors.

 AP correct me if I'm wrong on that one...seems like a similar type of fault to me...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Thank you mods...you guys(and gals) are quick 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nedman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Pricklely Peete, now I know why you've been calling it a FrankenZero LOL._

 

Yep...thanks to Pench for coining that term 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's appropriate I think...although if you didn't know what to look for it doesn't stray too far from the stock look...all the additions are on the underside of both pcbs...hidden away 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## alxwang

PP: Is that cap mod really works? I mean add a cap between pin 4 and 8?

 I just found some .22 500v in home 

 The info on cap is like:

 K75-10 
 0.22 uf +- 10%
 500v 50hz
 8911 OTK.

 Green color. 

 do you think they are good for this job?

 Thanks


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alxwang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PP: Is that cap mod really works? I mean add a cap between pin 4 and 8?

 I just found some .22 500v in home 

 The info on cap is like:

 K75-10 
 0.22 uf +- 10%
 500v 50hz
 8911 OTK.

 Green color. 

 do you think they are good for this job?

 Thanks_

 


 Sure those will do it....I only selected the max size, suggested by Burson, since I'll try that option first then go down in size if it's too much. I would imagine the size range will have little impact on the SQ outcome although I haven't tested any other size except 1 uf. It certainly adds to the SQ as Pench has mentioned in his testing...I did this tweak a long time ago before overhauling the Zero to it's present form. I remember,vaguely, what it brang to the table for the HDAM and urged Pench to try it..his observations of it's effects have been painstaking and thorough and his notes on it's SQ's are dead on the money.

 Those K75-10's are PLIO ?

 I need to look that up.....yep Combined paper and Lavsan in oil, very high quality caps indeed....major thumbs up !!! Here's a direct quote from the same family of caps...these I got for Pench and his forthcoming MK IVSE overhaul

 "K75-10 2,2uF 250V PLIO (Combined Papier / Lavsan in Oil ) Russian Capacitors

 Lot of 4

 Military equipment

 New, old stock

 Known to be premier quality for audio applications "


 I'll be using this type in my Tube amps (pre and power) overhaul (much larger sizes of course) as coupling caps with those Teflon jobs as bypass caps.

 Try em out Alex...they will take quite a while to form....200+ hours so be patient with it. The higher the voltage rating the longer they take to form IMO.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

The last 3 months have been a tweak/mod binge....maybe I should change my nic to Prickley "I'll bypass anything" Peete 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


 BRB in an hour...have to mail a bunch of caps and pair of tubes....


----------



## AudioPhewl

Cor... this thread moves so much in less than a day! I struggle to keep up... lord knows how folk who only visit once or twice a week manage.

 I need to participate more so I can get an uber-title like Peeeete 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl


----------



## alxwang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sure those will do it....I only selected the max size, suggested by Burson, since I'll try that option first then go down in size if it's too much. I would imagine the size range will have little impact on the SQ outcome although I haven't tested any other size except 1 uf. It certainly adds to the SQ as Pench has mentioned in his testing...I did this tweak a long time ago before overhauling the Zero to it's present form. I remember,vaguely, what it brang to the table for the HDAM and urged Pench to try it..his observations of it's effects have been painstaking and thorough and his notes on it's SQ's are dead on the money.

 Those K75-10's are PLIO ?

 I need to look that up.....yep Combined paper and Lavsan in oil, very high quality caps indeed....major thumbs up !!! Here's a direct quote from the same family of caps...these I got for Pench and his forthcoming MK IVSE overhaul

 "K75-10 2,2uF 250V PLIO (Combined Papier / Lavsan in Oil ) Russian Capacitors

 Lot of 4

 Military equipment

 New, old stock

 Known to be premier quality for audio applications "


 I'll be using this type in my Tube amps (pre and power) overhaul (much larger sizes of course) as coupling caps with those Teflon jobs as bypass caps.

 Try em out Alex...they will take quite a while to form....200+ hours so be patient with it. The higher the voltage rating the longer they take to form IMO.

 Peete._

 

I did. But I can not hear the difference
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 Start to find some 1uf
 PP send you a PM. Thanks.


----------



## AudioPhewl

I still don't understand what the benefit is of adding this capacitor?

 Nor do I have any suitable capacitors to solder into place to see for myself. I did try fitting a pair of larger electrolytics to my OPA-Sun, one from positive to ground and the other from negative to ground. From memory, it didn't make any noticeable difference.

 I really struggle with the concept of this mod... I know not everything in life makes sense, but there should be a degree of sense with most of electronics...

 ~Phewl.


----------



## alxwang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I still don't understand what the benefit is of adding this capacitor?

 Nor do I have any suitable capacitors to solder into place to see for myself. I did try fitting a pair of larger electrolytics to my OPA-Sun, one from positive to ground and the other from negative to ground. From memory, it didn't make any noticeable difference.

 I really struggle with the concept of this mod... I know not everything in life makes sense, but there should be a degree of sense with most of electronics...

 ~Phewl._

 

I guess it just something like "save same energy when needed later".
 I tried .22 and I did not feel the difference so I want to try 1. LOL . If still no difference I will blame my ear and forget about it.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

It takes time to show up.....as in over 200 + hours...this has been tested over and over...with Pench doing an exhaustive study on it of late....

 It makes no sense to me either, from an electrical standpoint, yet if you really think about it, it is doing what Burson says...acting as a small (on demand and very close to the HDAM V+ V- pins) hi speed current reserve, at the same time it's further scrubbing the DC line of any noise component. The placement to the HDAM is critical, the shorter the path to the V- V+ pins the better ....

 I think what's wrong with this "mod" is expecting a tonal change or shift...when that is not at all what will happen.......I'm sorry If I come across as being short...not my intention at all AP 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think what's wrong with this "mod" is expecting a tonal change or shift...when that is not at all what will happen.......I'm sorry If I come across as being short...not my intention at all AP 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			







 Peete._

 

You didn't come across at all like that mate 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 If there is no tonal change, or shift, then what exactly is it that changes? Maybe I should transfer the bi-polar capacitors I installed on the Sun to the Earth...

 Heck, I'm not tired. I'll give it a go now whilst watching "The Abyss" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Wow the Abyss is 200 hours long ? LOL....that must be some film 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As mentioned by Pench and I, it gives a more dynamic feel, better decay, separation between instruments is slightly sharper, lowers noise floor slightly...You'll notice none of those improvements have anything to do with tone or timbre...there are many ways to improve something, not all involve tonal shift. I have to say the most important ones IMHO, don't touch the base units voicing at all...the idea is to take away all the grunge , noise, poor impulse response, improve 3D qualities..etc etc...none of which change the tone of the original unit.

 The cap mod makes the HDAM breath like it's on steroids...you simply have to take a PIO cap, forget about the electrolytic, that will only mask things since they are terrible at passing highs properly, and slap it on pins 4 and 8....that's it...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Get off the electrolytic train man !!!! LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A bipolar won't help unless..guess what, you bypass it with a good PIO...just use a good PIO to begin with...easy, cheap and it works !!! 

 Try real good film cap..and leave it on for 200 hours +...you should be able to pick out the difference with the Stax rig quite easily, but you have to use a decent cap to begin with.....and let it cook and cook and cook....

 What more can I say....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I know...think of it as a swap from a 30 lb/hr fuel injector to a 50 lb/hr heavy duty, race tested monster (Frankie after all) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## glitch39

*quick clarification on the 3HDAM setup:

 is the limitation on the toroid capacity which is 100VA?

 or on the headamp regulators? those 2x B649AC and 2x D669AC?

 do the 15V-0V-15V taps (three yellow wires) go all the way back to the headamp voltage taps (through the three black wires)?

 Or is the headamp regulators cascaded off of the main DAC board regulator?

 Got some ideas on how to help the headamp power requirements, just need to know where to tap power from. thanks!*


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I think glitch39 that it's cascaded off the main DAC board regs, they are way hotter when the opamps are swapped from LT1364's to SUN modules (in the H/Amp section).

 I asked LC for a schematic but I doubt that request will ever be fulfilled. That's my best guess...by sizzling the pinkie on the DAC analog board regs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Low tech but it works...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Peete.

 Yes the toroid is 100VA.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I think I see what your up to.....bypass regs from main DAC board and run direct from existing transformer to H/Amp regs....simply reroute the black (3 wire) connector from the Analog board to the transformer ?

 Am I close ?

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

You know...those old Toshibas are tough to find data sheets on. I'm not 100% sure which is being taxed out, the regs, the transformer or a combo of both. 

 CC made a current draw calculation a while back 144ma for just the 3 HDAMs...the LM337T's (lowest max current spec) can handle 1.5 A each (or more)...so it may not be them, the Toshibas OTOH are a wild card, even more so if they are fakes, which was aluded to due to how scarce they are(out of production for years). The Zero is proported to draw 10 watts from the wall socket...Pench found that out. Do the calcs and we've run out of juice......meaning ? Toroid ?

 Just trying to give as much detail as I can about what your looking at...

 Peete.


----------



## sennsay

Mornin' Team Zero, only three pages to catch up on from last night, what have you lot been doing, listening to music?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have. Last night something amazing happened that kinda rocked me, 'cos I've heard nothing like it in 35 years of playing with music and hi-fi. I'll keep it brief so's I don't lose perspective here. 
 Two OPA Earths have been running since 9 AM, sound good, a tad better than the op-amps, more open, expressive. No significant changes 'til 8 PM or so when I take a listen and they sound awful! Like really off op-amps, harsh edgy, I can't listen to them.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Move Zero to puta to see if there's any difference, maybe the CDP has done a bunk? Nope, sound via puta ok but not much different. I'm puzzled, so I check other power sources to see if there is some major interference going on; TV off at the wall, freezer off (I know it can have temporary effects on the power supply). Hmmm, put Zero back with the hi-fi system and leave it alone for a bit, switch TV back on and watch a prog for a bit. Enough of that after an hour, off again at the wall, make a cuppa, plonk myself down on the floor - best place to be, as it turns out - HD 540s on my head, turn up the volume; Holy Mother of God, what the hell happened?? Somewhere in the period of 11 1/2 to 12 1/2 hour burn in a shift like no other I have ever experienced had occurred, it was as if the HDAMs had gone through a birthing process and suddenly just shucked off a coating of shellack and metamorphisized into a different beast! Man, I was stunned. How .... ? I have heard some electronics burn in and shift over the years and cartridges slowly transform, but nothing like this. 
 Truly, one of those stunned mullet "What the ........??" experiences. The transformation was not unlike changing from a cheap and cheerful Grado FTE+ to a Supex 1000 moving coil cartridge. Nope, in my system I am not exaggerating. In an hour a metamorphasis had occurred, I was gobsmacked listening to what had happened to my Eva Cassidy Live at Blues Alley disc. 
 I know, I know, there are many hours of burn-in to go, but to actually be present at a dramatic shift is really quite something. Nothing has sounded the same since then. Fleetwood Mac's Tusk blew me away, Talk Talk was intelligible (no easy feat!) ... etc. 
 This morning it's still fab. An extraordinary experience. Bring on the rest of the story! Phew.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *glitch39* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*quick clarification on the 3HDAM setup:

 is the limitation on the toroid capacity which is 100VA?

 or on the headamp regulators? those 2x B649AC and 2x D669AC?

 do the 15V-0V-15V taps (three yellow wires) go all the way back to the headamp voltage taps (through the three black wires)?

 Or is the headamp regulators cascaded off of the main DAC board regulator?

 Got some ideas on how to help the headamp power requirements, just need to know where to tap power from. thanks!*_

 

The supply to headphone board is already DC. So those B649/669 are acting like amplifiers or so called BJT. The output of OPA has to be step up to match the demand of headphone. Also I am worry with the tiny cable sending the power to the headphone board. I may be wrong. 2 wrong dont make 1 right.

 rgds


----------



## Currawong

Unlike the Sun, I found too the Earth sounded awful at first. Now it's the other way around - the Sun results in too much sibilance if i plug my Denon's straight into the Zero. The Earth has now become spot-on.

 I've currently got a blog draft which is a guide to the Zero for people jumping into this thread just wanting to buy a unit and not go overboard. I need to get pictures for it though.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Talk Talk was intelligible (no easy feat!) ... etc. 

 LOL...I saw them live a long long time ago and still can't figure just What that was exactly.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The HDAM goes through some rather dramatic stages before it settles down for good...as you've just witnessed. Like you, I listen for almost all the time the amp is on so I'm quite familiar with the HDAM SQ signposts.

 You'll hear it flutter back and forth between , rolled off bass, then rolled off highs, the mids well recess and come back, the sound stage will deepen considerably in the latter stages, mind you...the best part of all is the relaxed presentation, as in effortless delivery, that will increase to gigantic proportions. Excellent transient speed (with the cap tweak) decay that lasts as long as the note is held, hall reverb trails heard perfectly while crescendos crash all around you...great stuff 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Wait till you hear this with HD650's...


 The synergy between the HDAM and Zero is fantastic.

 Peete.


----------



## glitch39

I was thinking of unplugging the headamp three black wires off of the DAC board and plug it into its own DC supply +/- 15V I think it is. that unloads the regs on the DAC board which is good and gives the headamp its own PS


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The supply to headphone board is already DC. So those B649/669 are acting like amplifiers or so called BJT. The output of OPA has to be step up to match the demand of headphone. Also I am worry with the tiny cable sending the power to the headphone board. I may be wrong. 2 wrong dont make 1 right.

 rgds_

 

CC....would a far heavier gage wire be of any benefit ? I mean it can't hurt. The gage of the stock line is what 24 or 26 per wire ? Seems like a bit to light to be handling all that juice....hmmmmm...

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *glitch39* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was thinking of unplugging the headamp three black wires off of the DAC board and plug it into its own DC supply +/- 15V I think it is. that unloads the regs on the DAC board which is good and gives the headamp its own PS_

 

You know that might work, it's a variation of what I'm thinking about and what Alex has been toying with. Interesting. If my dry run powering all 3 on separate reg board and transformer doesn't pan out, I"ll try that method second. Easy to set up....Alex has custom reg boards coming to replace the stock regs on the H/Amp. So he has that angle covered....

 CC (technical advisor and support) and I are trying the 3 HDAM idea I just talked about, and now can also test your theory without difficulty. 

 I wonder if it isn't as simple as putting a heavier gage power line between the two stages ? Nah couldn't be could it ? 

 Peete.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Talk Talk was intelligible (no easy feat!) ... etc. 

 LOL...I saw them live a long long time ago and still can't figure just What that was exactly.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The HDAM goes through some rather dramatic stages before it settles down for good...as you've just witnessed. Like you, I listen for almost all the time the amp is on so I'm quite familiar with the HDAM SQ signposts.

 You'll hear it flutter back and forth between , rolled off bass, then rolled off highs, the mids well recess and come back, the sound stage will deepen considerably in the latter stages, mind you...the best part of all is the relaxed presentation, as in effortless delivery, that will increase to gigantic proportions. Excellent transient speed (with the cap tweak) decay that lasts as long as the note is held, hall reverb trails heard perfectly while crescendos crash all around you...great stuff 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Wait till you hear this with HD650's...


 The synergy between the HDAM and Zero is fantastic.

 Peete._

 

Yeah man, it really is! Ditto on the crazy moving in and out of soundstage etc. What Pench noticed as well, now I can actually hear it. Got the Pixies' nuttiness belting through the system at the moment, great recording on Surfer Rosa, surprising considering the musical ... er .. style. Talk Talk became amazing to listen to last night, phrasing and the 'sound' of the studio and all that just laid bare. As for Eva ... sheeesh! 
 Best of all is how the hard to drive 600 ohm Senn 540s have mutated into something else, as if the HDAMs are actually driving the output trannies properly, actually not unlike the 1028s in KHA, just several steps up the ladder. It also shows that the design of KHA is sound in the first place (good on the designer at Silicon Chip magazine!), maybe I could email them of the possible upgrades to the kit for those that are interested. 
 In Zero, those regs sure run hot eh, even with the 1364s in the amp. 
 Looking forward to the 650s! That oughta be an interesting run-in period too. Like yourself Peete, I just listen to music throughout the process, that's what I got the kit for in the first place.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

When the Zero (mine) had the 3 HDAM config running....I swear I could have cooked a cocktail weanie on those analog boards regs. I have an old Pentium 100 heatsink that I'm going to cut up, tried a little retrofit and bridged the 2 reg heat sinks for a split second...B ZZZZzzzzz zT spark 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...LOL that heat sink went flying out of my hand...got a bit of zap..nothing I haven't had before 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.

 PS That Surfer Rosa album is excellent with great recording quality (as you noted is unusual for that genre). The Frank Black solo albums are also great songs and recordings !!! Viva Pixies, Viva Frankie


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When the Zero (mine) had the 3 HDAM config running....I swear I could have cooked a cocktail weanie on those analog boards regs. I have an old Pentium 100 heatsink that I'm going to cut up, tried a little retrofit and bridged the 2 heat reg heat sinks for a split second...B ZZZZzzzzz zT spark 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...LOL that heat sink went flying out of my hand...got a bit of zap..nothing I haven't had before 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.

 PS That Surfer Rosa album is excellent with great recording quality (as you noted is unusual for that genre). The Frank Black solo albums are also great songs and recordings !!! Viva Pixies, Viva Frankie 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Pixie clink.


----------



## sennsay

Haven't heard the Zero's amp for some 30 hours, post OPA Earth. Walk over, plug in Denon D1000s, live concert of Tim Finn, Bic Runga and Dave Dobbyn playing .......................... gently lift left hand and place lower jaw back underneath it's top half ........ I think I may need that jaw sling you mentioned, CC.


----------



## shaddix

I have to get my postcount up so i can sell my 595s -.-;;;;;; Going to get those 650s from J&R before the end of the month and I can't sell them here without 50 posts >
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




!!!!!!!!


----------



## ccschua

Below is the new batch of OPA for those who ordered after the 31 Aug 2008, taking into consideration of capacitor mod. The capacitor used is 0.68 uF.

 What I state below will be debatable but it is good for discussion.

 Basically if long wire (between HDAM and socket) is used, the signal transmission might induce capacitive/inductive coupling, which may affect its SQ. The effect of additional capacitors across it has the effect of reducing the signal transmission path. The idea of 'cap mod' for direct connection of HDAM need to be confirmed (is it affecting the overall SQ or some tonality only ).


----------



## McPanse

Dang, hard to believe that it was only a few months ago I stumbled upon Head-Fi googling my head off in search of small footprint audio components to replace a table radio that had crapped out.

 In that time, I've built a dandy little living room system consisting of a Trends TA-10.1 amp, a Citypulse 7.2 DAC, a Little Dot MK IV headphone amp, a pair of Boston VR-M50 bookshelf speakers and some Beyerdynamic DT-880 headphones.

 The Little Dot is my newest addition and what addition it is, both as a headphone amp and pre-amp. I feel like I owe Penchum a debt of gratitude for his very informative posts.

 I'm jumping into this thread now because I need to exchange the Citypulse for something else. No complaints about the sound, but it doesn't work with the optical out from an Airport Express, something the AudioMagus guys have investigated and acknowledged. 

 They're being flexible as hell about the terms of a return/exchange, so I'm not in a big hurry. I'm waiting to see what they come up with next for their latest MagiDAC, but must confess I'm growing a bit impatient as the schedule for release continues to slip to the right.

 I'm thinking about reverting to the Zhaolu 2.5 that I had in house before buying the 7.2. Or possibly the Zhaolu 3. 

 But all this positive talk about the Zero has me intrigued. 

 Among the gear I've mentioned, any opinions on what might be the best DAC for me? And what about this Beresford DAC some seam to love? It's certainly cheap and small footprint, but I've got a nearly identical switcher/pre-amp made by the same company that I retired after very little use because I felt like it degraded my sound.


----------



## PlasticChicken

I just got my zero from the mail today and hooked it up to my laptop via 3.5mm to coax cable. My laptop has a dual headphone out and spdif 3.5mm out.

 It turns on, I switched it to coax and enabled the headphone lights. There was no sound so i decided to play around with the sound settings on the computer... nothing. No sound on spdif or asio4all. I'm using foobar to play my music. I don't get any window system sounds either. 

 I'm just using a stock realtek hd audio and the latest drivers. Any idea whats going on? I have a feeling it might be vista.


----------



## azncookiecutter

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PlasticChicken* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got my zero from the mail today and hooked it up to my laptop via 3.5mm to coax cable. My laptop has a dual headphone out and spdif 3.5mm out.

 It turns on, I switched it to coax and enabled the headphone lights. There was no sound so i decided to play around with the sound settings on the computer... nothing. No sound on spdif or asio4all. I'm using foobar to play my music. I don't get any window system sounds either. 

 I'm just using a stock realtek hd audio and the latest drivers. Any idea whats going on? I have a feeling it might be vista._

 

Your laptop might actually use Toslink for it's SPDIF output. My Gateway does the same thing, I have to use a Toslink to mini converter and plug it into the optical in jack.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PlasticChicken* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got my zero from the mail today and hooked it up to my laptop via 3.5mm to coax cable. My laptop has a dual headphone out and spdif 3.5mm out.

 It turns on, I switched it to coax and enabled the headphone lights. There was no sound so i decided to play around with the sound settings on the computer... nothing. No sound on spdif or asio4all. I'm using foobar to play my music. I don't get any window system sounds either. 

 I'm just using a stock realtek hd audio and the latest drivers. Any idea whats going on? I have a feeling it might be vista._

 

Hi Chicken,

 Your laptop spdif 3.5mm is meant for your listening using headphone right?

 Then that is not called spdif, but should be called headphone jack. It is analog.

 The input the ZERO dac via coaxial or so called spdif and optical is actually digital signal. So digital signal and analog dont mix.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *McPanse* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dang, hard to believe that it was only a few months ago I stumbled upon Head-Fi googling my head off in search of small footprint audio components to replace a table radio that had crapped out.

 In that time, I've built a dandy little living room system consisting of a Trends TA-10.1 amp, a Citypulse 7.2 DAC, a Little Dot MK IV headphone amp, a pair of Boston VR-M50 bookshelf speakers and some Beyerdynamic DT-880 headphones.

 The Little Dot is my newest addition and what addition it is, both as a headphone amp and pre-amp. I feel like I owe Penchum a debt of gratitude for his very informative posts.

 I'm jumping into this thread now because I need to exchange the Citypulse for something else. No complaints about the sound, but it doesn't work with the optical out from an Airport Express, something the AudioMagus guys have investigated and acknowledged. 

 They're being flexible as hell about the terms of a return/exchange, so I'm not in a big hurry. I'm waiting to see what they come up with next for their latest MagiDAC, but must confess I'm growing a bit impatient as the schedule for release continues to slip to the right.

 I'm thinking about reverting to the Zhaolu 2.5 that I had in house before buying the 7.2. Or possibly the Zhaolu 3. 

 But all this positive talk about the Zero has me intrigued. 

 Among the gear I've mentioned, any opinions on what might be the best DAC for me? And what about this Beresford DAC some seam to love? It's certainly cheap and small footprint, but I've got a nearly identical switcher/pre-amp made by the same company that I retired after very little use because I felt like it degraded my sound._

 


 Among all the dac u have mentioned, the cheapest is still the ZERO DAC. A lot of ZERO users are budget users who want best value for money. Zero has never fail on this and it is easily upgraded. please check if those dac u mentioned can have this flexibility for upgrade.

 Sound quality wise, you can get improvement with those opamp swapping and it is fun doing it and it is easy.

 but if you want the sound of high end dac, zero is not in that league, but will give them some thot this little boy has got muscles.

 Penchuum happens to be reviewing one of the DAC (called DAC 100) that uses the same DAC AD 1852 like ZERO but the implementation of the output stage, the power supply circuit is of better quality. stay tune.


----------



## PlasticChicken

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *azncookiecutter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your laptop might actually use Toslink for it's SPDIF output. My Gateway does the same thing, I have to use a Toslink to mini converter and plug it into the optical in jack._

 

Darn... I rechecked the specs on my laptop and it indeed only uses toslink for the spdif output. Do places like walmart or radio carry toslink to mini converters and does the quality of the cable matter.

 I also got no use for my new mini to RCA blue jean cable anymore...


----------



## azncookiecutter

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Chicken,

 Your laptop spdif 3.5mm is meant for your listening using headphone right?

 Then that is not called spdif, but should be called headphone jack. It is analog.

 The input the ZERO dac via coaxial or so called spdif and optical is actually digital signal. So digital signal and analog dont mix._

 

A lot of current laptops have their headphone jack double as a optical jack too. It just requires an adapter to use.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PlasticChicken* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Darn... I rechecked the specs on my laptop and it indeed only uses toslink for the spdif output. Do places like walmart or radio carry toslink to mini converters and does the quality of the cable matter.

 I also got no use for my new mini to RCA blue jean cable anymore... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Radioshack may have it, but the Walmarts up here in Canada don't carry them. Something like this would work: http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Optica.../dp/B000I990VI


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *azncookiecutter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A lot of current laptops have their headphone jack double as a optical jack too. It just requires an adapter to use.



 Radioshack may have it, but the Walmarts up here in Canada don't carry them. Something like this would work: Amazon.com: Digital Optical Toslink Female / 3.5mm Mini Male Adaptor, Right Angle: Electronics_

 

thats good. do u need this one for the airport express as well? Wireless technology really get me excited.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow the Abyss is 200 hours long ? LOL....that must be some film 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As mentioned by Pench and I, it gives a more dynamic feel, better decay, separation between instruments is slightly sharper, lowers noise floor slightly...You'll notice none of those improvements have anything to do with tone or timbre...there are many ways to improve something, not all involve tonal shift. I have to say the most important ones IMHO, don't touch the base units voicing at all...the idea is to take away all the grunge , noise, poor impulse response, improve 3D qualities..etc etc...none of which change the tone of the original unit.

 The cap mod makes the HDAM breath like it's on steroids...you simply have to take a PIO cap, forget about the electrolytic, that will only mask things since they are terrible at passing highs properly, and slap it on pins 4 and 8....that's it...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Get off the electrolytic train man !!!! LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A bipolar won't help unless..guess what, you bypass it with a good PIO...just use a good PIO to begin with...easy, cheap and it works !!! 

 Try real good film cap..and leave it on for 200 hours +...you should be able to pick out the difference with the Stax rig quite easily, but you have to use a decent cap to begin with.....and let it cook and cook and cook....

 What more can I say....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 Peete._

 

Hi PP,

 Are u getting this good results using direct HDAM connection without using the cables? 

 if ur setup is direct connection, then your finding seem to be on the opposite of what audio-gd has described which I would like to check with him.

 I am having difficulty to back so many pages of info.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi PP,

 Are u getting this good results using direct HDAM connection without using the cables? 

 if ur setup is direct connection, then your finding seem to be on the opposite of what audio-gd has described which I would like to check with him.

 I am having difficulty to back so many pages of info._

 

Hi CC,

 Audio-gd method of hook up is different (the pics you posted is what I'm going by). It looks like they are tying each pin ( V- V+) to the module ground, (pin 4 parallel to ground on HDAM). Other channel the same (pin 8 parallel to ground once again) using 1 0.63uf cap for each channel. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this type of arrangement similar to what the 220pf output caps were doing on the analog out just before the RCA jacks ? More of a hinderance than a help ? Aren't the leads on the HDAM way to short to be concerned with inductance/capacitive loading ?

 Burson tweak is 1 0.1 - 1uf film cap wired in parallel between pin 4 and 8. The two methods aren't comparable because the way they are wired onto the HDAM correct ?

 That's it as far I can see. I'm only reporting what I hear with the Burson cap tweak. Nothing more. Pench has verified the findings...honestly I don't know why this mod garners so much attention...it's a simple tweak...no big deal...


 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

It doesn't matter whether the cables are used or not, the sound is the same. Sorry forgot to add that.

 Peete.


----------



## sennsay

Below is the new batch of OPA for those who ordered after the 31 Aug 2008, taking into consideration of capacitor mod. The capacitor used is 0.68 uF.

 What I state below will be debatable but it is good for discussion.

 Basically if long wire (between HDAM and socket) is used, the signal transmission might induce capacitive/inductive coupling, which may affect its SQ. The effect of additional capacitors across it has the effect of reducing the signal transmission path. The idea of 'cap mod' for direct connection of HDAM need to be confirmed (is it affecting the overall SQ or some tonality only ). 
 cchua

 Hey, good pics CC, will have to look into that mod. Haven't bothered so far while OPAs are burning in. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Oh, after what PP said, I might just leave things for now. No biggie.


----------



## McPanse

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Among all the dac u have mentioned, the cheapest is still the ZERO DAC. A lot of ZERO users are budget users who want best value for money. Zero has never fail on this and it is easily upgraded. please check if those dac u mentioned can have this flexibility for upgrade.

 Sound quality wise, you can get improvement with those opamp swapping and it is fun doing it and it is easy.

 but if you want the sound of high end dac, zero is not in that league, but will give them some thot this little boy has got muscles.

 Penchuum happens to be reviewing one of the DAC (called DAC 100) that uses the same DAC AD 1852 like ZERO but the implementation of the output stage, the power supply circuit is of better quality. stay tune._

 

Count me in as a fellow budget user. I started this little adventure with the belief that I could do better than any of the iPod speaker docks, all-in-one mini-systems, or well-known table radios for more or less the same amount of money. I've probably exceeded my budget by $300 at this point, but I don't regret it for a minute (common affliction around here). Of course returning the Citypulse and buying a Zero would put me back in the neighborhood of my original budget target and yet (from what it sounds like here) still put me leagues beyond the sound quality I was hoping to achieve.

 I know this has turned into a Zero-lovers' thread, but are there any direct comparisons with the Zhaolu, both in terms of sound quality and upgradability? Searching HeadFi produced few results. Seems to be many more Zero users around here.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi CC,

 Audio-gd method of hook up is different (the pics you posted is what I'm going by). It looks like they are tying each pin ( V- V+) to the module ground, (pin 4 parallel to ground on HDAM). Other channel the same (pin 8 parallel to ground once again) using 1 0.63uf cap for each channel. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this type of arrangement similar to what the 220pf output caps were doing on the analog out just before the RCA jacks ? More of a hinderance than a help ? Aren't the leads on the HDAM way to short to be concerned with inductance/capacitive loading ?

 Burson tweak is 1 0.1 - 1uf film cap wired in parallel between pin 4 and 8. The two methods aren't comparable because the way they are wired onto the HDAM correct ?

 That's it as far I can see. I'm only reporting what I hear with the Burson cap tweak. Nothing more. Pench has verified the findings...honestly I don't know why this mod garners so much attention...it's a simple tweak...no big deal...


 Peete._

 

Well the output decoupling capacitor (220 pF) is meant to scrub high frequency AC signal. Wheareas the input power supply DC coupling cap is to stabilize the supply during draining (remember Penchuum say when a fast note is hit, the cap provide the support). 

 I was wondering too why the cap is connected across +V and -V, wherereas a typical design would be to connect two cap with the mid point grounded. 

 A check with audio-gd basically says that the coupling cap reduces the effects of output signal reflectance, which will limit the dynamics response. Think of this reflectance like a drop of water in a cup, the reflecting wave created oscillations. The additional cap across V+ and V- reduces this effect (especially with connecting cables). Different cap will yield diff sound effects but not necessary sound quality. The addition of coupling cap will improve by lowering the noise floor, thus creating better sound quality.

 I hope to ask audio-gd to give me the cap as well.
 rgds.


----------



## katanka

Just thought i ad in some of my findings. But i have been experimenting with op amps in the headphone section and been changing between lt1364 and LM4562. I have been using my Grados aswell, SR225. I feel that the lM4562 are a much easier listen than the lt1364 as they fatigued me more. i have been testing this over a week now. I will try the LT1364 when i get my HD600's but for now, the sweet spot is the LM4562 in the headphone section


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_CC (technical advisor and support) and I are trying the 3 HDAM idea I just talked about, and now can also test your theory without difficulty. 

 Peete._

 

Please change technical advisor and support to technical confusor.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Just did a quick check on relay thingy. I found that the power supply to OPA (pin 4 and 8, 30V dc) is switched on before the relay. The relay only switches on to connect the output signal to the RCA. I didn't check if it output to the headphone or not, but my gut feeling it must be.

 So direct power supply connection to the OPA is good to go.

 Also just notice the time constant for OPA power supply to OPA is about 30 sec. Meaning after power supply is off, it takes long time to drop to 0 V.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well the output decoupling capacitor (220 pF) is meant to scrub high frequency AC signal. Wheareas the input power supply DC coupling cap is to stabilize the supply during draining (remember Penchuum say when a fast note is hit, the cap provide the support). 

 I was wondering too why the cap is connected across +V and -V, wherereas a typical design would be to connect two cap with the mid point grounded. 

 I hope to ask audio-gd to give me the cap as well.
 rgds._

 

Hey CC,

 Just to clarify a little so everyone understands what I meant;

 The BA cap mod PP and I have done, does indeed provide for proper attack & decay and speed of dynamic notes. The other benefit seems to be on notes that are sustained on purpose by the musician. Even though the length of time the sustained note "hangs" in there might be small, the BA cap mod keeps the sustained note from suffering any early decay. All of this "extra power support" happens to notes at all frequencies! The overall effect is improved imaging and placement on a more realistic 3D sound stage. This is why the BA cap mod is so attractive and recommended.

 I am concerned that the other cap mod for cable length support (if this is really needed, I can't hear it), might interfere with the BA cap mod's intended purpose. Can you verify or clarify this for us?

 A few extra notes to help with understanding these properties:

 In some respects, I'm cursed, because I used to be a percussionist and these properties weigh in heavily on my musical world. When those notes suffer, they don't impact like they should, hang around with proper intensity for as long as they should, and they don't leave the audible range like they should. Hence, the weak/lifeless sound.

 What I find interesting, is that you don't need special listening skills to "hear" these properties. We generally take them for granted as being correct. They generally are correct on the recordings we purchase (except for the modern "loud" recordings we all hate).

 What is most important about these properties is that they have a large impact on the entire system's sound, while they are part of the source signal (CD player/DAC level). If they are "off" at this source signal level, they will sound very "off" after amplification. So, the time to address them, is while they are still part of the source signal, so that they will sound proper when amplified. The BA "cap" mod addresses this directly.

 How do we know if what we are hearing is in fact correct? A couple of things point directly at these properties and are sign posts for us. One, is the weak/lifeless presentation. The other, is whether or not the music sounds "effortless and natural". Many of you have experienced "effortless" and/or "natural" reproduction, and many have commented on this, even when it was only "generally" understood what was happening to make it sound so good. These properties don't involve anything difficult or mysterious. There is no snake oil or fantasy driven mega buck audiophile only wishful thinking involved either. It is simply part of the musical presentation for ALL music.


----------



## ccschua

Hi Penchum, 

 Good morning to u. Nice to have u back.

 I would try to grab the cap first, and compare it using OPA Earth.

 I have reported your finding on the BA cap mod. his position is still the same as in post #6411.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_








 Please change technical advisor and support to technical confusor.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Just did a quick check on relay thingy. I found that the power supply to OPA (pin 4 and 8, 30V dc) is switched on before the relay. The relay only switches on to connect the output signal to the RCA. I didn't check if it output to the headphone or not, but my gut feeling it must be.

 So direct power supply connection to the OPA is good to go.

 Also just notice the time constant for OPA power supply to OPA is about 30 sec. Meaning after power supply is off, it takes long time to drop to 0 V._

 

Excellent CC,

 All the pieces have fallen into place. Now all I have to do is wait for the parts arrive.

 Fingers crossed this will solve the 3 HDAM config power issue.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

The BA cap tweak, I think, has now been officially beaten to death....I trust that further discussion of it's merit, heard or unheard is closed ? I'm moving on to what's ahead. 

 Thanks to Pench's eloquence with the written word, he manages to say with one post what I have failed to with several....tip of the hat to Pench 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 CC,

 Thank you for the explanation of audio-gd's use of their "addition".

 Would I be correct in the assumption that those caps are acting like a shunt ? Silly question perhaps...wouldn't be my first ...nor will it be my last 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.

 PS A 1uf cap is part of the mod kit....just an FYI.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Another thought occurred to me....it might be worthwhile to explore the combination of both and see what that does for the audio-gd modules. I think the use of a pair of .47uf PIOs wired in like Kingwa suggests should be sufficient. I have 2 Earth modules in the DIY DAC unmodified to test this with...

 What do you guys think ? 

 Peete.

 PS Tom Brady ...a serious knee injury ? = Pats sunk....sigh...


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow the Abyss is 200 hours long ? LOL....that must be some film 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As mentioned by Pench and I, it gives a more dynamic feel, better decay, separation between instruments is slightly sharper, lowers noise floor slightly...You'll notice none of those improvements have anything to do with tone or timbre...there are many ways to improve something, not all involve tonal shift. I have to say the most important ones IMHO, don't touch the base units voicing at all...the idea is to take away all the grunge , noise, poor impulse response, improve 3D qualities..etc etc...none of which change the tone of the original unit.

 The cap mod makes the HDAM breath like it's on steroids...you simply have to take a PIO cap, forget about the electrolytic, that will only mask things since they are terrible at passing highs properly, and slap it on pins 4 and 8....that's it...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*Get off the electrolytic train man !!!! LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A bipolar won't help unless..guess what, you bypass it with a good PIO...just use a good PIO to begin with...easy, cheap and it works !!! *

 Try real good film cap..and leave it on for 200 hours +...you should be able to pick out the difference with the Stax rig quite easily, but you have to use a decent cap to begin with.....and let it cook and cook and cook....

 What more can I say....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 Peete._

 

But Peete, you're talking about the differences these caps make as if they were in the signal path. They're not. They're only tied to the power supplies. As such, they will be used as a power reservoir, they don't filter the audio signal at all.

 As they are used as power reservoirs, using bigger electrolytics _must_ serve a greater purpose than using smaller PIO or polyboxes. A 100uF electrolytic is going to make much more energy available to the HDAM in the form of it's own store.

 I understand electrolytics are hated by many folk on here, but in terms of a power supply, they can't be beaten in terms of cost or capacitance compared to physical size.

 Can someone please *explain to me why a small capacitor is preferred over a larger one in this instance*? The audio signal doesn't pass through pins 4 or 8... only V+ and V-, the power feeds to the opamp socket.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## viscosity

not that you guys should stop researching further improvements, but it sure would be nice for somebody to compile a list of all working mods and what parts are needed (as so people like myself can make a trip to radioshack and buy the right stuff


----------



## AudioPhewl

^It's in the works, viscosity. Peete and Penchum will be posting it in the DIY section quite soon, from all accounts 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But Peete, you're talking about the differences these caps make as if they were in the signal path. They're not. They're only tied to the power supplies. As such, they will be used as a power reservoir, they don't filter the audio signal at all.

 As they are used as power reservoirs, using bigger electrolytics must serve a greater purpose than using smaller PIO or polyboxes. A 100uF electrolytic is going to make much more energy available to the HDAM in the form of it's own store.

 I understand electrolytics are hated by many folk on here, but in terms of a power supply, they can't be beaten in terms of cost or capacitance compared to physical size.

 Can someone please *explain to me why a small capacitor is preferred over a larger one in this instance*? The audio signal doesn't pass through pins 4 or 8... only V+ and V-, the power feeds to the opamp socket.

 ~Phewl._

 

AP,

 I really did try to explain "how" it is believed the BA "cap" mod benefits the HDAM. No one has implied it "filters" anything. It is all about power availability on dynamics. While I can't explain the differences between how different types of caps work or not work in this application, I can say for sure that the PIO's work very well on the BA "cap" mod. That should be enough. If you can get other types of caps to work even better, then go for it.

 It should be obvious that both PP and I are getting pretty burned out on explaining the same thing over and over. I can guarantee you, we would not mention the cap mods benefits unless we experienced them first hand, and want to share it with others because of it's benefits.

 Please, back off and let this subject "air" a little while. Everyone will be better off for it. Anything with possible negative overtones, like your reply to PP, brings Andrea back out to play, and that is getting old as well.

 Yes, I realize I'm being protective. PP and I have put in hundreds of hours on this mod subject for the benefit of all others, and I don't want it to come crashing down before we finish with our findings. It is close to crashing right now. Steps must be taken to smooth out the bumps and I ask you to help smooth things over, please? Thanks Bro!


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It should be obvious that both PP and I are getting pretty burned out on explaining the same thing over and over. I can guarantee you, we would not mention the cap mods benefits unless we experienced them first hand, and want to share it with others because of it's benefits._

 

My apologies, but I've not seen anything that makes any sense to me. I'm not trying to "burn" the pair of you out, nor am I trying to "call" either of you out. But my problem is that I understand the logic behind sorting the sub-standard capacitor choices in the various sections. I understand the sonic differences from using a particular type of capacitor for audio signal coupling, and I understand the logic of using power reservoirs next to any device taking from the power rail.

 But I still don't understand the principle behind this mod. I don't understand the logic used to choose the small-capacitance capacitor - hence my query. Are we not missing a potential upgrade point here, by assuming that electrolytics couldn't be doing a better job of the mod in question?

 I don't proclaim to understand everything, nor even a small part of everything. But does it not make sense that the principles and ideas I've mentioned would have a better effect on supplying the HDAMs with power than using such a small capacitor?

 I'm sorry to keep asking the same questions, but to my mind nobody is giving a solid answer as to why the current plans are better than the conventional wisdom of using a good power supply capacitor for the power supply?

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My apologies, but I've not seen anything that makes any sense to me. I'm not trying to "burn" the pair of you out, nor am I trying to "call" either of you out. But my problem is that I understand the logic behind sorting the sub-standard capacitor choices in the various sections. I understand the sonic differences from using a particular type of capacitor for audio signal coupling, and I understand the logic of using power reservoirs next to any device taking from the power rail.

 But I still don't understand the principle behind this mod. I don't understand the logic used to choose the small-capacitance capacitor - hence my query. Are we not missing a potential upgrade point here, by assuming that electrolytics couldn't be doing a better job of the mod in question?

 I don't proclaim to understand everything, nor even a small part of everything. But does it not make sense that the principles and ideas I've mentioned would have a better effect on supplying the HDAMs with power than using such a small capacitor?

 I'm sorry to keep asking the same questions, but to my mind nobody is giving a solid answer as to why the current plans are better than the conventional wisdom of using a good power supply capacitor for the power supply?

 ~Phewl._

 

Ok AP,
 I understand. The thing is, we just don't have time right now, to explore other avenues on this subject. Could you take it up and test it for us??

 We have "weeks" worth of data to sort through, a review to build, pics to shoot, the actual "how to" data to make some sense out of, and some testing yet to do. We have a very full plate. We have already had to slide the "due date" back a week, and it may be slid back further.


----------



## AudioPhewl

My - very - limited input would be this:-

 Adding 100uF electrolytics opened up the soundstage. It gave the Earth the immediate presence of the Sun. Adding a 0.22uF polybox, or using it by itself, yielded no further difference. Substituting the 0.22uF polybox with a 1uF Elna electrolytic again yielded no noticeable difference.

 Hence my queries. You two have found a difference from using a small capacitor - I don't have the same type or brand immediately available to me, but using a similar value didn't make an appreciable difference to me, whereas using something "outside of the box" of current thinking did.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My - very - limited input would be this:-

 Adding 100uF electrolytics opened up the soundstage. It gave the Earth the immediate presence of the Sun. Adding a 0.22uF polybox, or using it by itself, yielded no further difference. Substituting the 0.22uF polybox with a 1uF Elna electrolytic again yielded no noticeable difference.

 Hence my queries. You two have found a difference from using a small capacitor - I don't have the same type or brand immediately available to me, but using a similar value didn't make an appreciable difference to me, whereas using something "outside of the box" of current thinking did.

 ~Phewl._

 

Actually, that is a great starting point. The PIO's we used were brand new, so they needed lots of hours to mature. You can see how this would take some time, instead of being immediate. Maybe you could test some new ones you have on hand? Any help would sure be appreciated!


----------



## AudioPhewl

^But I couldn't compare my results to those of PIO caps, which seem to be the at the base of this mod. I don't have any... and I glued my HDAM into it's plastic housing last night. I don't really want to try opening it back up - I used a hot glue gun, so as you can imagine there is a fair amount of gunk in there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 Instead of bugging you guys further, I asked the same question in the DIY forum:-
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/ple...estion-361365/

 ~Phewl.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But Peete, you're talking about the differences these caps make as if they were in the signal path. They're not. They're only tied to the power supplies. As such, they will be used as a power reservoir, they don't filter the audio signal at all.

 As they are used as power reservoirs, using bigger electrolytics must serve a greater purpose than using smaller PIO or polyboxes. A 100uF electrolytic is going to make much more energy available to the HDAM in the form of it's own store.

 I understand electrolytics are hated by many folk on here, but in terms of a power supply, they can't be beaten in terms of cost or capacitance compared to physical size.

 Can someone please *explain to me why a small capacitor is preferred over a larger one in this instance*? The audio signal doesn't pass through pins 4 or 8... only V+ and V-, the power feeds to the opamp socket.

 ~Phewl._

 

Hi Phewl, just a couple of thoughts here. Have you looked at the 'famous' Dick Marsh (and Walt Jung) material where he checked out the sonic difference in caps to great extent? He found that on large PS's of 20/40/60,000+ mF, even adding a 4.7 the 0.47 mF caps significantly improved the supply, despite the tiny differential in cap size addition. I've done it, it works. 
 Now, the HDAM cap mod is an extension of the PS, right? The only diff is that it's not across the main PS caps on the board, just a little further along the chain. To my mind, an electrolytic is not needed and in fact could be a sonic hindrance, hence a quality PIO, for instance, might be far more beneficial and in PP's and Penchum's experience that is exactly so. Also in mine, just not with the Zero yet. Marsh explained it all very well and he may be the very best bet to answer your questions. Google, if you're not familiar with the material, and sincere apologies if I'm teaching your grandmother to suck eggs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Does this help you at all? This thread? 
 And Penchum, that was beautifully expressed, a couple of pages back!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 In fact, it may be that the main PS caps themselves could be changed for superior ones, Black Gates, for instance. I'm told that even the smaller value models still work more efficiently than larger caps of a different brand. And there's another 200+ hour burn-in!!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

AP I have an idea you can persue, the actual cap (PIO) doesn't have to be an exact duplicate. But it should match the hi quality NOS Russian PIO used. A Vit Q is very similar in SQ as is NOS Aerovox. If you can't find a decent 1 uf film cap...PM me and I'll try and work something out.

 First, try the 100 uf electrolytic for 200 + hours...listen for any changes...if any. Add a 1 uf PIO and bypass the 100uf cap...let it burn in for another 200+ hours...listen ...report the findings. Finally remove the 100 uf and listen (both will be burned in that point). Make sure you use your Stax setup for these listening sessions with a piece of music you know inside and out.

 When I said filter I meant possible further filtering of any noise or ac component on the DC supply lines if there is any...not a signal filter. 

 I would appreciate it greatly if you could explore this and maybe find an explanation that makes electrical sense from an engineering perspective...just remember, sometimes the answer can't be rationalized with a black and white scientific explanation.....some things defy logic. Pench and I are so busy of late neither of us has the time to really look at this beyond what we have both done already so it would be very cool if you could try and explore this tweaks seemingly illogical function.


 Please let me know via PM if I can be of further assistance towards that end.

 Peete.


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## Pricklely Peete

S-Man do you have link handy to that Marsh material...I'm sucker for that kind of read 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks !!

 Peete.


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## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_S-Man do you have link handy to that Marsh material...I'm sucker for that kind of read 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks !!

 Peete._

 

Yeah man, here's one for starters: Services
 Check this doozy out! http://www.reliablecapacitors.com/pickcap.htm
	


 Phewl, you might want a look at that too, buddy.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah man, here's one for starters: Services
 Check this doozy out! http://www.reliablecapacitors.com/pickcap.htm
	


 Phewl, you might want a look at that too, buddy._

 

Hey PP, which of those Russian PIOs do you recommend? There are several sizes available and while I know I will need the 600+V models for the tube pre, is it the .22 uF you use most for Zero etc?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Hi S-Man,

 Thanks for those links...I'll bookmark them and get stuck in on them during the week 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Zero mod uses K42Y-2 160V PIOs of three sizes, the cap tweak for the HDAM is 1 uf , the H/Amp uses .1uf (x 2 ) and the main board has 12 x 0.047 uf 
 caps. All are used as bypass caps installed parallel to their electrolytic counter parts on the underside of the pcb. I wanted to go with larger values than .047 originally but the space underneath didn't allow for it. The .047's do a great job so maybe that was for the better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 K42Y-2 family of PIOs come in 160V, 200V and 250V respectively IIRC. K75-10 PLIO (combined paper/Lavsan oil ) are near Teflon equivalents and are great quality caps...a major step in SQ over the K42Y-2 but they don't come in small enough (physical) size to be of use with the Zero with the exception of the cap tweak. 

 These are the 15 additions of the FrankenZero kit. Where these are installed will be revealed with the kit launch.

 Of course the king of the hill Russian caps are the actual all Teflon family...but they are extremely large caps only suited for very roomy chassis's. 

 Here's a pic of 2 x .1 uf 600V T-3 Russian caps installed on my MK III zip tied to the underside of the chassis. They are wired in parallel to the analog output coupling caps (3.3uf 50V WIMA box caps) on the MK III pcb. The WIMA's although good caps will soon be replaced by 3.3uf 250V PLIO's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Here are a couple pics showing the Teflon monsters installation during final assembly of the revamped MK III, (looks like I need to update the sig again)











 These pics show the size of the .1 uf Teflon 600V...I have 2 x .22uf 600V caps (for the MeiXing MC34-AB tube amp) that are almost twice the size of these .1 uf caps !!!

 The sound so far has been jaw dropping from the MK III. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Please note the resistor mod (64 ohm stock, swapped for 120 ohm Kiwame (SP ?) .5% tolerance 2 watt carbon film) and 5 additional .033uf 500V PIO bypass caps on all the large electrolytic caps have also been added. Tubes installed for now are Telefunken diamond bottom 6AK5 drivers and a matched pair of (Yen Audio) Sovtek NOS 6H30Pi's. I have 80's vintage 6H30Pi-DR's in the mail on their way to me as I type 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That should prove to be a good tube to try with the Mullard large shield 8161/ Sylvania 6AK5WA round getter black plates. Hopefully the new caps on the MK III will be well formed by that time. I doubt it but one call always hope 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 I guess I should remove those tiny rubber feet...since they are useless now


----------



## dario

I'm lost, the 3 hdam configuration is under testing or nothing for now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




?


----------



## ccschua

HI CC report in. 

 Too much capacitor is going to kill my appetite. 

 Just buy another Volex 17604 for the ZERO DAC. Cost me about USD 13 delivered to door step.

 For a moment, I will just think about how to get the hump (is this the clipping we are talking about ) open up and make ZERO with bigger response. 

 Just wonder when is PP reg arriving, and how's Alex doing with the reg too.


----------



## dacavalcante

Hi guys, I just decided to not use leads and instead of it plug zero direct to socket (if after caps mods it's still possible)....

 Would and acrilic top for the case, be just too ugly ?


----------



## Infoseeker

all these moddings, can a inexperienced solderer do these things?


----------



## shaddix

Decided to keep the 595s and just buy some 650's so now I'll have two senns!!


----------



## dario

I've just bought the 650 and selled the 595...I will wait for them the zero and hdam, what a revolution on my audio hardware...


----------



## Mikha

As glitch39 said i want to bypass all the work listed in this thread, so tell me what is generally better than fully upgraded ZERO?

 p.s.: asked, cuz its not the pusher-thread, isn't it?


----------



## dario

Mikha I think a separate dac+amp, I don't think there is a better combo, if there is I would be interested becouse I don't have the zero yet...


----------



## AudioPhewl

Sennsay and Peete - cheers for your input 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I'm going to end up opening up my plastic cradle aren't I? I don't know why I bothered gluing it in the first place... no mods are ever really complete are they? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HI CC report in. 

 Too much capacitor is going to kill my appetite. 

 Just buy another Volex 17604 for the ZERO DAC. Cost me about USD 13 delivered to door step.

 For a moment, I will just think about how to get the hump (is this the clipping we are talking about ) open up and make ZERO with bigger response. 

 Just wonder when is PP reg arriving, and how's Alex doing with the reg too._

 

Hi CC,

 Should be here sometime this week (Friday) or early next week (depends on customs). That's a pretty good price for a Belden based cable...report any differences please, between it and the stock mains cable...when enough time has passed of course 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys, I just decided to not use leads and instead of it plug zero direct to socket (if after caps mods it's still possible)....

 Would and acrilic top for the case, be just too ugly ?_

 

Hi Diego,

 I dunno about that...beauty is in the eye of the beholder is it not ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A nice smoked acrylic top like the Keces DAC's have would look really cool IMHO !!!!.

 It would have to be custom made of course (DIY or ?) a big sheet of 1/4in thick stuff should do job for fairly cheap although I have no clue what this stuff actually costs.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sennsay and Peete - cheers for your input 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I'm going to end up opening up my plastic cradle aren't I? I don't know why I bothered gluing it in the first place... no mods are ever really complete are they? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 

Hi AP,

 My pleasure,....funny thing about mods...they seem to evolve slightly as new ideas crop up. Never say never is a good mantra in this hobby 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That being said gluing the HDAM into the DIY CC cradle is a sound (pardon the pun) philosophy...just makes further mods kinda ....hard to complete..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe the pins are exposed enough to allow access ? You could always trim down the sides (of the cradle) since the plastic offers no shielding benefit and just serves to hold the heat in...what do you think AP ? Would allow access while giving you a solid platform to place the HDAM anywhere you like without risk of shorting anything.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Infoseeker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_all these moddings, can a inexperienced solderer do these things?_

 

Yes...but one should practice first, read up on proper technique and gain confidence in one's self skills before attempting the harder more complex mods. Start off with simple projects, and read, read, read, ask tons of questions...google is your friend......

 Everyone starts out with the same experience...as in none, at some point in their lives (of those inclined to DIY anything electronic in nature). My first time was 1973...with my Dad when I tried to help with a Heath Kit integrated tube AMP kit. I was terrible at it...but soon learned ...it's easy to pick up the skill, half the job is prep, the other half is proper execution.

 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi AP,

 My pleasure,....funny thing about mods...they seem to evolve slightly as new ideas crop up. Never say never is a good mantra in this hobby 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That being said gluing the HDAM into the DIY CC cradle is a sound (pardon the pun) philosophy...just makes further mods kinda ....hard to complete..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe the pins are exposed enough to allow access ? You could always trim down the sides (of the cradle) since the plastic offers no shielding benefit and just serves to hold the heat in...what do you think AP ? Would allow access while giving you a solid platform to place the HDAM anywhere you like without risk of shorting anything.

 Peete._

 

That'd make a lot more sense, actually. The cradle was designed to shield the sides from contacting anything if it happened to move. Since I've also tacked the base of the cradle down with glue, it's not going anywhere.

 I'll have to see about getting a small film cap locally. Maplin are about as common here as Radio Shack is in the States, but they are quite limited as to what you can get hold of. RS, Farnell and Rapid offer much better stock but charge a lot for postage, or if you spend over a certain amount(£20-£25 last time I checked), they'd do it for free.

 Shame I don't need more gear... maybe I should take a look for something suitable on eBay...

 ~Phewl.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi CC,

 Hi Diego,

 I dunno about that...beauty is in the eye of the beholder is it not ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A nice smoked acrylic top like the Keces DAC's have would look really cool IMHO !!!!.

 It would have to be custom made of course (DIY or ?) a big sheet of 1/4in thick stuff should do job for fairly cheap although I have no clue what this stuff actually costs.

 Peete._

 

Yeah, maybe, but the problem is that zero isn't tall enough, so I would have to do a kind of box........
 I guess I'll make things easier.... I'll just cut some holes for the HDAMs on Zero top case to fit them and cover it with an acrilic case...... maybe I can try to make it looks like HDAMs were inside a tube, like on tube amps.... but I really don't have all this skill.....


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shaddix* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Decided to keep the 595s and just buy some 650's so now I'll have two senns!!_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dario* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've just bought the 650 and selled the 595...I will wait for them the zero and hdam, what a revolution on my audio hardware..._

 

I got a smile out of these two! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Same flavor, different outcomes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Having more than one pair of Senns is a good thing IMHO. I'm using my HD-650's so much now, I worry about wearing them out, so I've started using my HD-600's more, to spread out the "wearing" factor a little.

 At the end of the day, I'm very glad to have both. They both have a unique sound that I find very pleasurable. I've often wondered about the HD-595 for computer usage and regular old headphone listening. Would either of you guys recommend them for this, or would I be better off getting another pair of HD-580's?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, maybe, but the problem is that zero isn't tall enough, so I would have to do a kind of box........
 I guess I'll make things easier.... I'll just cut some holes for the HDAMs on Zero top case to fit them and cover it with an acrilic case...... maybe I can try to make it looks like HDAMs were inside a tube, like on tube amps.... but I really don't have all this skill....._

 

Hi D,

 If you find a decent solution for this, that would be great! I did look into it some, but couldn't seem to find anything that required only limited fabrication skills. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Do the wires really have you worried? So far, I can't tell if they are making a sonic difference, and they are allowing me to close up the case to protect the insides. I was also trying to preserve the stacking capabilities as well.
 Thoughts??


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi D,

 If you find a decent solution for this, that would be great! I did look into it some, but couldn't seem to find anything that required only limited fabrication skills. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Do the wires really have you worried? So far, I can't tell if they are making a sonic difference, and they are allowing me to close up the case to protect the insides. I was also trying to preserve the stacking capabilities as well.
 Thoughts?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hi Penchum,

 What do you call "stacking" ? You mean, to be able to put something else on the top of zero, like MKIII ?

 Well... I thought it would be a problem. A flat surface should be better.... 
 I really don't have any problems with wires.... maybe it gets too much things inside of Zero and maybe it can get too hot to put 3 hdams on it........ Oh, and yes...... I'm a little worried about sonic differences... you know, we are willing to do all those mods on Zero, to a little wire mess a little bit with things....
 Well, we also have to wait for the solution for feeding them.... maybe we do really need more space depending on the size of the power supply thing PP is working out.....
 When I have my HDAMs here I'll start up drawing some things....
 I also want to know if there's a 12V line running on zero, where maybe a computer fan could be plugged....


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Penchum,

 What do you call "stacking" ? You mean, to be able to put something else on the top of zero, like MKIII ?

 Well... I thought it would be a problem. A flat surface should be better.... 
 I really don't have any problems with wires.... maybe it gets too much things inside of Zero and maybe it can get too hot to put 3 hdams on it........ Oh, and yes...... I'm a little worried about sonic differences... you know, we are willing to do all those mods on Zero, to a little wire mess a little bit with things....
 Well, we also have to wait for the solution for feeding them.... maybe we do really need more space depending on the size of the power supply thing PP is working out.....
 When I have my HDAMs here I'll start up drawing some things....
 I also want to know if there's a 12V line running on zero, where maybe a computer fan could be plugged...._

 

Ya, I have my MKIII on top of mine right now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have the extensions Lawrence made for my first model HDAM, which are about 8" long, and they don't seem to make a sonic difference, so I'm not too worried about the shorter ones from audio-gd.

 You are right though, many of the possible issues haven't been addressed yet, so hopefully soon we'll have a better handle on power and heat.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sennsay and Peete - cheers for your input 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I'm going to end up opening up my plastic cradle aren't I? I don't know why I bothered gluing it in the first place... no mods are ever really complete are they? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 

Cant u access pin 4 and pin 8 on the ZERO PCB connector to connect the cap.


----------



## ccschua

Yesterday I poke the multimeter on the AC power cord using Volex to the filter and found something strange. The Volex is connected to british plug using a Chinese made universal adaptor. We follow the british 240V 50hz. I found The live and neutral measurement is 240V but the neutral to earth was riding at 115 Vac. Strange. Later I remove the Chinese made connector and use a local ac cord to connect.

 As I was Using the Volex (with US plug), is it true the US plug has the neutral and live in opposite connection than the British plug. I thot they follow IEC so should be the same. Anyway, after remove the plug I got back neutral close to zero. Phew, dangerous isnt it.


----------



## dario

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got a smile out of these two! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Same flavor, different outcomes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Having more than one pair of Senns is a good thing IMHO. I'm using my HD-650's so much now, I worry about wearing them out, so I've started using my HD-600's more, to spread out the "wearing" factor a little.

 At the end of the day, I'm very glad to have both. They both have a unique sound that I find very pleasurable. I've often wondered about the HD-595 for computer usage and regular old headphone listening. Would either of you guys recommend them for this, or would I be better off getting another pair of HD-580's?_

 

Simply I need money to get all this stuff right now, and I found a good opportunity to sell the 595...now I'm without Hp only IEM 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 P.s Sincerly the 595 are very good Hp (really) but they lack a little in the middle-bass range (probably with a amp I would resolve), and becouse the hd 650 seems really good also for the bass-middle frerquencies, I think I will use only new Hp...

 P.p.s sorry for english, I'm hurry


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yesterday I poke the multimeter on the AC power cord using Volex to the filter and found something strange. The Volex is connected to british plug using a Chinese made universal adaptor. We follow the british 240V 50hz. I found The live and neutral measurement is 240V but the neutral to earth was riding at 115 Vac. Strange. Later I remove the Chinese made connector and use a local ac cord to connect.

 As I was Using the Volex (with US plug), is it true the US plug has the neutral and live in opposite connection than the British plug. I thot they follow IEC so should be the same. Anyway, after remove the plug I got back neutral close to zero. Phew, dangerous isnt it._

 

I'm a little confused CC,

 I thought you were in N.America ? The Chinese adapter is wired wrong ? And yes that is dangerous ...

 Peete.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

I have asked this question before but does anyone have the Starving Student hybrid amp fed from the Zero? Also which amp is better the Starving student or the built in amp in the Zero.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have asked this question before but does anyone have the Starving Student hybrid amp fed from the Zero? Also which amp is better the Starving student or the built in amp in the Zero._

 

What's your budget ? 

 The new Hybrid from LD is supposed to be a good amp for about 100 bucks or so + or - a few bucks......The LD I+. I'm going to get one for the cottage, I can't resist 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Well I bought the parts for this amp before the LD MK I+ so I don't know how good that amp is. Is it a lot better than anything in its price range?


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sennsay and Peete - cheers for your input 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I'm going to end up opening up my plastic cradle aren't I? I don't know why I bothered gluing it in the first place... no mods are ever really complete are they? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 

 No wurries, Phewl, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have been refreshing my own past experience because of this topic and the Jung and Marsh research is top stuff, though it has been added to on occasions by Ben Duncan and others. Basic principals haven't changed though. I did some bypassing work on my KHA last night, with a small stack of .01 uF MKP (polypropylene) caps in a number of critical places. Already small changes in an easy clarity and smoothness and a little purer in the tops, lots of burning in yet though. Now I want to get into the Zero shortly with the PIOs after the OPA EARTH is run in. I'm in no great hurry as the new Senn 650s will also need running in over time, when they get here this week.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I bought the parts for this amp before the LD MK I+ so I don't know how good that amp is. Is it a lot better than anything in its price range?_

 

That remains to be seen, the first amps have just been shipped out the past couple of weeks. There is a thread for the amp that I check from time to time.

 For 100 bucks it looks like a real kick arse amp...it has loads of drive for low impedance cans.

 800 mw @ 32 ohms....or something like that. Front end is tube, back end mosfet..hence hybrid moniker..perfect combo (cottage amp written all over it) for the price IMO. A few mods to it here and there I bet it's quite something afterwards...Can I leave nothing alone (stock) ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Peete.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Yea that does sound like a nice amp. After I build my starving student amp I will see if I like it. I just got the parts today and going to look for a case to build it.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yea that does sound like a nice amp. After I build my starving student amp I will see if I like it. I just got the parts today and going to look for a case to build it._

 

Cool.....

 Peete.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That remains to be seen, the first amps have just been shipped out the past couple of weeks. There is a thread for the amp that I check from time to time.

 For 100 bucks it looks like a real kick arse amp...it has loads of drive for low impedance cans.

 800 mw @ 32 ohms....or something like that. Front end is tube, back end mosfet..hence hybrid moniker..perfect combo (cottage amp written all over it) for the price IMO. A few mods to it here and there I bet it's quite something afterwards...Can I leave nothing alone (stock) ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Peete._

 

 DAMMIT! Now you've got me interested! And I'm still ecstatic over last night's mods! My God has that made a difference now that it's had all day and last night to settle a bit. Maaaate, it's just gone up and up throughout the day and I've literally had to force myself to put the cans down several times to meet an appointment or two and get something to eat. Yes, it's that good! KHA + Senn 540s have never ever sounded this good, this real, this expressive in the 18 years I've had them. It's like KHA has taken on some of the fine attributes of a good tube amp; the treble is just 'there' without emphasis, yet shimmers and rings on percussion like the real thing does. Vocals are rounder, the subtlest lip and body movements are effortlessly there, air coming from lungs, breath from nostrils, a drummer shifting on his seat, double basses have wooden hollow shells ... and so on, all clues that tell me real people are singing and playing, instead of an good electronic simulcrum. Best of all in this is that I can hear how good the Zero is with the HDAM, man it really IS a cracker! And so much more to come ....
 oh happy days 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	













 The other 'best of all' is that I haven't had so much musical fun for years!
 The S-Man cometh.


----------



## Summer Jazz

Hi all,
 I found the Zero runs hot after a few hrs, especially at the headphone amp bd, any concern? 
 My request for a OPA827 got rejected. On hand, I have LT1364 (2 pcs) & AD8599 (1 pc). I heard putting LT1364 on the DAC runs very hot, is it true? 
 The AD8599 is SMD type (v small), seems like not easy to solder it to an adaptor.


----------



## ccschua

Hi,

 CC in again. Finally my gang members (13 of them) have received the OPA. We are going to burn the OPA.

 Looks like the OPA Moon will be launched during the Chinese Mooncake festival, Hopefully. The Moon will accomodate the headphone better than the Sun. Stay tune.


----------



## dario

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,

 CC in again. Finally my gang members (13 of them) have received the OPA. We are going to burn the OPA.

 Looks like the OPA Moon will be launched during the Chinese Mooncake festival, Hopefully. The Moon will accomodate the headphone better than the Sun. Stay tune._

 

What will be the main differences with the sun and earth?

 P.s I have received the 3 sun and earth but I don't have the zero and hd 650, wow!


----------



## gavszero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,

 CC in again. Finally my gang members (13 of them) have received the OPA. We are going to burn the OPA.

 Looks like the OPA Moon will be launched during the Chinese Mooncake festival, Hopefully. The Moon will accomodate the headphone better than the Sun. Stay tune._

 

ccschua Kingwa told me to get back to him in October for the OPA-Moon on it's progress .. Said it 's more Valve like so would be interesting what it'll sound like . I myself prefer the OPA-Earth in the DAC at the moment to the Sun now after listening at lenght ... I'm currently trying out his Buffer 3 which has improved SQ out of the Analog output , it's not subtle either .

 Gavin ..


----------



## dario

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gavszero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ccschua Kingwa told me to get back to him in October for the OPA-Moon on it's progress .. Said it 's more Valve like so would be interesting what it'll sound like . I myself prefer the OPA-Earth in the DAC at the moment to the Sun now after listening at lenght ... I'm currently trying out his Buffer 3 which has improved SQ out of the Analog output , it's not subtle either .

 Gavin .._

 

But the headphone section of the zero is so good to be convenient try all this opa?
 Between sun earth moon ect we could buy a little dot new...infact if there had been the promotion at 99% I would not buy them, I will buy a new amp directly...that is my opinion.


----------



## shaddix

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've often wondered about the HD-595 for computer usage and regular old headphone listening. Would either of you guys recommend them for this, or would I be better off getting another pair of HD-580's?_

 

I can't say anything since they were my first pair of headphones. I got them based on recommendations that they sound good without an amp and they scale up a bit with an amp.(I was thinking no amp for now and get a portable amp later + modding my x-fi) And the price on them is right. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have the 50 ohm version. I'm still in the process of reading infinite websites/wikipedia to learn how how the power running to phones changes the audio.(as in voltage differences etc)

 But as I said I have no frame of reference. I have listened to headphones in some stores, but I am wary about demoing stuff inside a retail store since they *are* trying to sell stuff. I am looking to attend a head-fi meet. 

 I want to get a pair of K701s sometime also, people seem to like those. And why isn't my avatar working


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dario* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But the headphone section of the zero is so good to be convenient try all this opa?
 Between sun earth moon ect we could buy a little dot new...infact if there had been the promotion at 99% I would not buy them, I will buy a new amp directly...that is my opinion.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That's a very good point too, especially for the "budget" minded audiophile. I would imagine a Zero, with OPA "earth" in the DAC and LT1364's in the headphone amp, driving one of those new LD 1+ hybrids, would be a fun combination! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You could choose which you wanted to listen too, SS or Hybrid at any given time. The Opamp/HDAM swapping and tube rolling in the new LD 1+ gives you another way to customize the sound to your tastes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I hope PP gets his LD 1+ soon. I'd love to see a review on it.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gavszero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ccschua Kingwa told me to get back to him in October for the OPA-Moon on it's progress .. Said it 's more Valve like so would be interesting what it'll sound like . I myself prefer the OPA-Earth in the DAC at the moment to the Sun now after listening at lenght ... I'm currently trying out his Buffer 3 which has improved SQ out of the Analog output , it's not subtle either .

 Gavin .._

 

Can u describe with more details about it. One of my fren grab audio-gd buffer too to connect to his amp.

 If u info on the Moon is latest, then we have to wait. Moon is a single ended class A (so I guess it is not a folded design as in Earth), a trait known for tubelike sound.


----------



## dario

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's a very good point too, especially for the "budget" minded audiophile. I would imagine a Zero, with OPA "earth" in the DAC and LT1364's in the headphone amp, driving one of those new LD 1+ hybrids, would be a fun combination! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You could choose which you wanted to listen too, SS or Hybrid at any given time. The Opamp/HDAM swapping and tube rolling in the new LD 1+ gives you another way to customize the sound to your tastes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I hope PP gets his LD 1+ soon. I'd love to see a review on it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

But in the new hybrid little dot we can insert also the Sun and Earth?


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi CC,

 Should be here sometime this week (Friday) or early next week (depends on customs). That's a pretty good price for a Belden based cable...report any differences please, between it and the stock mains cable...when enough time has passed of course 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Peete._

 

Wait for your item, and pray for your custom.

 After about 5 times switching back and forth between Volex (belden with beldfoil shield and drain wire) and stock Zero power cord, I began to tell decisively Volex is more outstanding. All this while I dont believe much in Power cord for source, but it beats me this time.

 However the difference is not so obvious, just like the obvious case I slot in the Single Crystall Copper (OCC) power cord to my tube amp. I hear immediate (large) improvement to SQ using that blue snake power cord (OCC)

 Perhaps I am begining to pick up the finer details on music separations, transparency and the bass response.

 it is patience too.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dario* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But in the new hybrid little dot we can insert also the Sun and Earth?_

 

Not sure about that yet. I hope so. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm sure we'll hear more news as more people get theirs delivered.


----------



## dario

I contacted Lawrence, and from the various mod, there is an "ALPS vol. pot is $20 included labour" is this mod good and useful?


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dario* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I contacted Lawrence, and from the various mod, there is an "ALPS vol. pot is $20 included labour" is this mod good and useful?_

 

I would say only if you intend on listening at very low volume (where the default pot is imbalanced). And if you’re not going to use the amp on the Zero, just ditch that mod, you will be controlling the volume from the Little dot (in your case).

 I see you are considering the new little dot I+, that may be mistake, the cans you are going to buy are high impedance (300ohm), and the little dot I+ is more geared towards low impedance cans like grados and such. If you are going with the HD650, the MK II/III would be a better option.


----------



## dario

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would say only if you intend on listening at very low volume (where the default pot is imbalanced). And if you’re not going to use the amp on the Zero, just ditch that mod, you will be controlling the volume from the Little dot (in your case)._

 

Hi, than I would have improvment only at low volume level?
 Nothing other improvment on sound?

 For quite time I will use the zero amp, also becouse I have 3sun+1earth now, and I would use all 3 of them hoping that the thread's bosses will find a solution to the problem
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 I see you are considering the new little dot I+, that may be mistake, the cans you are going to buy are high impedance (300ohm), and the little dot I+ is more geared towards low impedance cans like grados and such. If you are going with the HD650, the MK II/III would be a better option. 
 

I understand, for now I will go with the zero, and I think I will have a big improvment considering that I had only a 595 with nothing special around...


 And is good the optical cable that sell Lawrence?


----------



## dario

Here there are some mods
ZERODAC


----------



## Emanuel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dario* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here there are some mods
ZERODAC_

 

These mods were of some interest some time ago in this thread, and I think part of them (not the lampization, that cut out the opa) will be integrated from our friends. I'm wondering if even the tantalum caps added in parallel to the electrolytes that power up the dac ecc, will be added too, if it will be of some utility.

 PS: For the pot I can't say, probably I wouldnt even said if Lawrence had sent it to me, for which I had pay 10usd, but I've never found it inside the box


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Emanuel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_These mods were of some interest some time ago in this thread, and I think part of them (not the lampization, that cut out the opa) will be integrated from our friends. I'm wondering if even the tantalum caps added in parallel to the electrolytes that power up the dac ecc, will be added too, if it will be of some utility.

 PS: For the pot I can't say, probably I wouldnt even said if Lawrence had sent it to me, for which I had pay 10usd, but I've never found it inside the box_

 

Rest assured the kit addresses this critical area. All areas that count are covered.

 Peete.


----------



## Steph86

Hi, I have had my zero for several months now and have done the HDAM with cap mod. Over the past few days when the unit is on and I touch the volume knob or silver front pannel, I hear buzzing in my headphones. So I decided to take the zero completely apart and then reassemble to see if doing so would fix the porblem. unfortunately the noise was still there. I therefore tried to figure out whether it was the dac or headphone board causing this porblem. so I took out the headphone board (but kept it plugged it) then turned it on and touched the front panel. There was no noise but when I touched the arm to the volume knob the noise sounds. I think this means there is something on the headphone board which is causing the porblem but can't figure out what it is. I have tried checking all the solder points below the board and have tried pressing some of the compnonents down softly but still nothing. I have the ALPS volume pot mod, could this be faulty?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Steph86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, I have had my zero for several months now and have done the the HDAM with cap mod. Over the past few days when the unit is on and I touch the volume knob or silver front pannel, I hear buzzing in my headphones. So I decided to take the zero completely apart and then reassemble to see if doing so would fix the porblem. unfortunately the noise was still there. I therefore tried to figure out whether it was the dac or headphone board causing this porblem. so I took out the headphone board (but kept it plugged it) then turned it on and touched the front panel. There was no noise but when I touched the arm to the volume knob the noise sounds. I think this means there is something on the headphone board which is causing the porblem but can't figure out what it is. I have tried checking all the solder points below the board and have tried pressing some of the compnonents down softly but still nothing. I have the ALPS volume pot mod, could this be faulty?_

 


 Please explain this further, 

 " There was no noise but when I touched the arm to the volume knob the noise sounds. "

 What's the "arm" ? Sorry for asking 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Has the ground wire to the pot casing come loose somehow as in a cold solder joint ? Re-seat the opamps and make sure the HDAM is all the way in...sometimes if the opamps aren't all the way in it'll cause noise in one channel.

 Sounds like a ground issue of some sort...check that side casing pot wire, re melt the solder if necessary. Just guessing at this point.

 Peete.


----------



## Steph86

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Please explain this further, 

 " There was no noise but when I touched the arm to the volume knob the noise sounds. "

 What's the "arm" ? Sorry for asking 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Has the ground wire to the pot casing come loose somehow as in a cold solder joint ? Re-seat the opamps and make sure the HDAM is all the way in...sometimes if the opamps aren't all the way in it'll cause noise in one channel.

 Sounds like a ground issue of some sort...check that side casing pot wire, re melt the solder if necessary. Just guessing at this point.

 Peete._

 

Sorry for being vague, by arm I meant the arm to the volume pot which comes through the casing and the knob slides onto. This may sound like a silly question but where is the ground wire to the pot casing?

 I have taken out the opamps and put them back in and i have taken the HDAM module out completely and swapped it with the old opamp.

 Steph


----------



## AudioPhewl

Steph,

 It'll be the ground wire to the volume pot. It should be soldered onto the side of the pot, and down to the headphone PCB. Because of the sheer size of the metal casing, it's easy to get a "dry" joint where the solder hasn't adhered properly.

 Chances are that if you push it onto the metal casing of the volume pot, the noises will disappear.

 It'll need to be re-heated and re-soldered to successfully eliminate the noise IMO.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Steph86

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Steph,

 It'll be the ground wire to the volume pot. It should be soldered onto the side of the pot, and down to the headphone PCB. Because of the sheer size of the metal casing, it's easy to get a "dry" joint where the solder hasn't adhered properly.

 Chances are that if you push it onto the metal casing of the volume pot, the noises will disappear.

 It'll need to be re-heated and re-soldered to successfully eliminate the noise IMO.

 ~Phewl._

 

I have no wire going from the volume pot to the pcb. The pot was installed by lawrence when I bought the zero, could it be something he has left out?

 Steph


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Steph86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have no wire going from the volume pot to the pcb. The pot was installed by lawrence when I bought the zero, could it be something he has left out?

 Steph_

 

Sounds like that, Steph86. There is indeed supposed to be a ground wire from the LHS of the pot down to a small hole in the circuit board. If you don't have one you will need to put one in there. As PP has mentioned before, you will need to roughen up the surface of the side of the pot where you will solder too, makes for a more solid connection.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Basically, I can't find a picture of the wire. But on that picture, if you were to rotate the board 90 degrees anti-clockwise, there should be an unshielded wire from the metal surround of the volume pot down to the PCB.

 Possibly the uprated pots don't ship with it, I don't know. I've no experience of the uprated pots.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Steph86

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sounds like that, Steph86. There is supposed to be a ground wire from the LHS of the pot down to a small hole in the circuit board. If you don't have one you will need to put one in there._

 


 Whats the LHS? can anyone with the ALPS pot take a picture of this so I know where the wire comes from and leads to? would be a great help.

 Thanks steph


----------



## AudioPhewl

Left Hand Side.

 The Alps pots - they're blue and plastic in nature aren't they? Maybe the grounding wire comes from somewhere else on it... could you take a photo?

 ~Phewl.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Steph86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Whats the LHS? can anyone with the ALPS pot take a picture of this so I know where the wire comes from and leads to? would be a great help.

 Thanks steph_

 

Sorry, that's Left Hand Side from the front. The wire doesn't come with the pot, it's a standard fixture on the original board. I'll get a pic for you if no one beats me too it.


----------



## sennsay

Here you go Steph86.


----------



## AudioPhewl

That's weird. Sennsay made a post at 11.17pm but it's only showing the one at 11.08pm.

 Am hoping that making this will reset things a little...

 ETA - it did. Weird...


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry, that's Left Hand Side from the front. The wire doesn't come with the pot, it's a standard fixture on the original board. I'll get a pic for you if no one beats me too it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/attach...1&d=1220998803


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I have a pic......I'll upload...had to take the pic then fix it up in image maker...







 That should help...

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Doh S-Man beat me to it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Good on ya S-Man !!!!

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Gavin, your bonus caps are on the way to you mate !!! Forgot to mention that....(4 x 1uf K42Y-2 160V's as promised)...they went out last week. They are being shipped via 2 skinny dudes in a 8 ft dingy.

 Peete.


----------



## Penchum

Ok, you guys got my curiosity up and running. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 When I did the Alps pot mod, I could have swore there was one of the six connections that was for ground. Seems like it went to a trace on the PCB part of the Alps pot, and looped around until it connected to the metal part of the pot. I'm not using a separate ground wire as shown in the pics just posted, and, I have no noise whatsoever. Did I dream about that connection? Or did I just get lucky?


----------



## AudioPhewl

Pot has 6 connectors - 2x audio in, 2x audio out, 2x tie to ground for the audio signal.

 The housing itself is not earthed, so it's not effectively shielded. Human contact can create audible noises, though they are likely to disappear when the pot is no longer touched.

 The plastic knob will go a long way toward insulating from human touch 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Doh S-Man beat me to it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Good on ya S-Man !!!!

 Peete._

 

Heh heh, just happened to have the camera nearby. BTW, someone has added a top quality subwoofer to my headphones and what sounds a lot like an excellent tube amp as well. Don't understand what the problem could be ........ ??? And my cans and bones of my head seem to disappear when I listen to music ........ you don't know what might have happened do you, PP ...? 
 Oh, and I have an incontrollable drooling and a strange grin on my face ..............


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Ok guys, time for a little fun, this network is going to be used where ?.....I call it the Super Cap Pak...it's an idea I have been kicking around for a while in my puny brain and now have the chance to assemble and install. There are 2 cap paks like this.....hints in 30 minutes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 This is fun stuff......I'm such a NARD (dumb nerd) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 S-Man I'd say either a bat bit you in the nads...or the HDAM is almost done cooking 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The MKP's should be opening up a bit in a few days, hold on to your film & foil hat...fun fun fun 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## wpfloridian

UPDATE from wploridian!

 Got a new pair of OPA637s that sound wonderfully!! They replaced the OPA627 module that came with the Zero.... 

 Setup as of now 2X637s DAC/ LT1364 for the headamp...but I also play straight from the DAC to the Grado headphone amp....VERY NICE!!

 In the future; I will wait for the DIY update you guys have been working on and or get the HDAM's (SUN?EARTH?MOON???) ...pending recommendations from you guys..

 Great thread people!! ..to believe I was about to get a Benchmark DAC or a Cambridge 840C...the Zero is all I need!!! I am tempted to take it to Sound Advice and have some fun with the reps over there!!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok guys, time for a little fun, this network is going to be used where ?.....I call it the Super Cap Pak...it's an idea I have been kicking around for a while in my puny brain and now have the chance to assemble and install. There are 2 cap paks like this.....hints in 30 minutes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 This is fun stuff......I'm such a NARD (dumb nerd) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 S-Man I'd say either a bat bit you in the nads...or the HDAM is almost done cooking 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The MKP's should be opening up a bit in a few days, hold on to your film & foil hat...fun fun fun 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Too replace those big monsters under your MKIII? One for each Nad? High fashion male ear rings + nip rings?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Nope Pench......those Teflons ain't going anywhere on the MK III, besides I have 3.3 uf 250V PLIOS (god knows where I'll find the room for them) to replace the WIMAs that are then bypassed by those two depth charges slung underneath the MK III 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Guess again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## sennsay

S-Man I'd say either a bat bit you in the nads...or the HDAM is almost done cooking The MKP's should be opening up a bit in a few days, hold on to your film & foil hat...fun fun fun 

 Peete.

 Hell, I'm even enjoying stuff I didn't like before! Even early Talk Talk songs! Had an amazing Pixie sesh last night and the Genesis Seconds Out concert, playing Cinema Show ...... man I was there at the end shouting "Keep it going .. keep it going .. keep it going ..!!!" along with the rest of the huge crowd. Damn was it like being there! 
 It must have been one of those Pixies wot put a sub in my headphones! 

 Now let's see .... I would put those caps across the main supply electrolytics .... do they actually fit in the case, dude?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 PS Guess what little package has arrived for me today? Starts with an S ..... man.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nope Pench......those Teflons ain't going anywhere on the MK III, besides I have 3.3 uf 250V PLIOS (god knows where I'll find the room for them) to replace the WIMAs that are then bypassed by those two depth charges slung underneath the MK III 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Guess again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Well, I guess that means they aren't for the nad/nip decoration either...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 How about the "sun" modules??


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Whoa, almost Pench......hot ...very very hot....

 S-Man......uhhhh a Summons ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The 650's !!!!! I wish they did fit in the case...but no such luck...at least not in the space provided in the SuperDac's cramped chassis. I suppose I could sling em on top of the 3900uf Rubycons...not sure of how to keep them in place and get the lid back on....need to look at all options. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Whoa, almost Pench......hot ...very very hot....

 S-Man......uhhhh a Summons ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The 650's !!!!!

 Peete._

 

WOOHOO! 650s are (almost) in the house! Just gotta go get them from the courier office as I was out when she came by. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 I think this calls for a 'Hot diggity dog!"


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WOOHOO! 650s are (almost) in the house! Just gotta go get them from the courier office as I was out when she came by. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 I think this calls for a 'Hot diggity dog!"_

 

Hot diggity dog indeed! Go get those beauties! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Your whole week has just been made!!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Whoa, almost Pench......hot ...very very hot....
 snip

 Peete._

 

Well, must be the "earth" with both cap mods at the same time then? Jezz, I'm really guessing now! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Or is this some kind of "bypass" the headphone amp Opamps weirdness?


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hot diggity dog indeed! Go get those beauties! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Your whole week has just been made!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks Pench, it sure has. The HDAMs are singing like nothing I've ever heard before in my own systems, the 540s sound like a completely different model and I'm enjoying the communication of music in a whole new way. 
 Isn't it amazing how once electronics get to that 50 hour mark they literally transform into a butterfly so fast? It really is quite an extraordinary thing! And then the wings just spread from there.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Pench, it sure has. The HDAMs are singing like nothing I've ever heard before in my own systems, the 540s sound like a completely different model and I'm enjoying the communication of music in a whole new way. 
 Isn't it amazing how once electronics get to that 50 hour mark they literally transform into a butterfly so fast? It really is quite an extraordinary thing! And then the wings just spread from there. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It sure is! The other great thing is how your new HD-650's will mature. They sound pretty good "out of the box", but become so much more refined, after about 250 - 300 hours. I just got done maturing brand new drivers for my HD-650's and I can tell you for sure, the newer drivers sound way better than the old ones (a couple of years old). I am Super pleased with the end results, and highly recommend new driver replacement for HD-650 owners who have concerns that their original drivers may be too worn or damaged somehow.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, must be the "earth" with both cap mods at the same time then? Jezz, I'm really guessing now! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Or is this some kind of "bypass" the headphone amp Opamps weirdness? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Nope instead of the single 1uf cap on each HDAM...it'll be 1 cap pak on each HDAM. The total uf value is up by 25% over the single 1uf cap so I might have to turf one of the .22 uf caps...I'll try it as is though, the power supply in the SuperDAC is stout so I doubt there will be any complaints from it when it sees all these caps saying fill me up damn it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 S-Man....you have the cans or you are on the way to get them ? If the latter ...run don't walk...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You won't get any sleep tonight...your in for a eargasmic experience....change the underpants or better yet go commando 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Peete.

 PS I'm not endorsing this looney idea of mine (the cap pak) it's just an experiment...it'll need at least 300 hours of time or more before a I can say whether or not it's a waste of caps or it's merely awesome...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 In all honesty I don't know what to expect....kinda the same boat I was in when I first tried the 1 uf cap tweak a few months back.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nope instead of the single 1uf cap on each HDAM...it'll be 1 cap pak on each HDAM. The total uf value is up by 25% over the single 1uf cap so I might have to turf one of the .22 uf caps...I'll try it as is though, the power supply in the SuperDAC is stout so I doubt there will be any complaints from it when it sees all these caps saying fill me up damn it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 S-Man....you have the cans or you are on the way to get them ? If the latter ...run don't walk...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You won't get any sleep tonight...your in for a eargasmic experience....change the underpants or better yet go commando 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Peete._

 

OW! I was thinking about the FrankenZero! My bad. Yes, SuperDAC all the way Bro! I can only imagine how great that will sound in your main rig once they mature!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now let's see, are you using "earths" or "suns" in the SuperDAC??


----------



## dario

The kit will include a volume pot?
 Just to decide if will be usefool buy it from Lawrence


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nope instead of the single 1uf cap on each HDAM...it'll be 1 cap pak on each HDAM. The total uf value is up by 25% over the single 1uf cap so I might have to turf one of the .22 uf caps...I'll try it as is though, the power supply in the SuperDAC is stout so I doubt there will be any complaints from it when it sees all these caps saying fill me up damn it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 S-Man....you have the cans or you are on the way to get them ? If the latter ...run don't walk...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You won't get any sleep tonight...your in for a eargasmic experience....change the underpants or better yet go commando 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Peete.

 PS I'm not endorsing this looney idea of mine (the cap pak) it's just an experiment...it'll need at least 300 hours of time or more before a I can say whether or not it's a waste of caps or it's merely awesome...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 In all honesty I don't know what to expect....kinda the same boat I was in when I first tried the 1 uf cap tweak a few months back._

 

 Commando, mate, only way to go. 650s are now in the house, had to chase the courier to another part of town, but there was no way I was going home for another hour and more! It's so nice to have kit come in a box and with that nice flexi-3.5 mm connector too. Cool. 
 Pench, I am assuming that I have 'late' model jobs, since they are (were!) unopened in the box. What did they do to the drivers? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ah yes, you're talking new drivers as opposed to well used drivers a few years old eh? 
 They sound damn good out of the box, massive bass slam via KHA, M'Shell Ndegeocello kicks serious butt. Strangely, I almost bought the 600s because I like the marbled finish!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dario* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The kit will include a volume pot?
 Just to decide if will be usefool buy it from Lawrence 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Nope...LC is the only guy that can get the pot. 

 Peete.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Commando, mate, only way to go. 650s are now in the house, had to chase the courier to another part of town, but there was no way I was going home for another hour and more! It's so nice to have kit come in a box and with that nice flexi-3.5 mm connector too. Cool. 
 Pench, I am assuming that I have 'late' model jobs, since they are (were!) unopened in the box. What did they do to the drivers? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ah yes, you're talking new drivers as opposed to well used drivers a few years old eh? 
 They sound damn good out of the box, massive bass slam via KHA, M'Shell Ndegeocello kicks serious butt. Strangely, I almost bought the 600s because I like the marbled finish!_

 

I'm not sure what they changed, but they sound so much better than my older ones! Yours should be like my new drivers, so I'm sure they sound great right out of the box. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Gotta love those Senns!!


----------



## dacavalcante

Hi guys, I sae you talk about cooking..... how you guys do your cooking ?

 Eggs, butter and oven ? LoL




 Diego


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Heres a pic or two (the ones that turned out)..using the SUN module as an example. The leads will attach directly at the spot where the bottom plate pcb and the pin pads are soldered onto the the vertical sides. Swap the cap pak alignment 180 degrees and the top leads join in the middle, the bottom leads will be very close to ideal in placement to V- V+....the idea being to have that lead attach to the proper pin pad on each side leaving 2 mm of lead (90 degree bend from cap pak) so the entire cap pak floats around the module without touching it. Of course I will wrap the actual HDAM in a nice thin layer of electrical tape to prevent shorts ...I hope this explanation and pics will lend a hand to understanding the installation of the *experimental cap pak HDAM tweak*....in any event the attachment of the pak is elegant and simple even it the whole thing is as *ugly*...as ...uuuuhhhh....Frankenstein 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





















 Sorry about the lousy quality pics....obviously this is nothing but a quick and dirty mock up...the finished work will look far better...I hope 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Heres a pic or two (the ones that turned out)..using the SUN module as an example. The leads will attach directly at the spot where the bottom plate pcb and the pin pads are soldered onto the the vertical sides. Swap the cap pak alignment 180 degrees and the top leads join in the middle, the bottom leads will be very close to ideal in placement to V- V+....the idea being to have that lead attach to the proper pin pad on each side leaving 2 mm of lead (90 degree bend from cap pak) so the entire cap pak floats around the module without touching it. Of course I will wrap the actual HDAM in a nice thin layer of electrical tape to prevent shorts ...I hope this explanation and pics will lend a hand to understanding the installation of the *experimental cap pak HDAM tweak*....in any event the attachment of the pak is elegant and simple even it the whole thing is as *ugly*...as ...uuuuhhhh....Frankenstein 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sorry about the lousy quality pics....obviously this is nothing but a quick and dirty mock up...the finished work will look far better...I hope 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Hey PP veryyyy veryyyy nice caps...... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I think you just love big caps, like me! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Any improvement using them or not tested yet ?


 Diego


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not sure what they changed, but they sound so much better than my older ones! Yours should be like my new drivers, so I'm sure they sound great right out of the box. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Gotta love those Senns!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes they do and yes I do! No brightness that one or two others have spoken of, wonder if it was the amp they used? Smooth as, while I can also hear how they might refine on burning in. The wonderful thing is, the Senn 540s are sounding so good with the HDAM in KHA that they are not in the least shamed by their up market brothers, so I have a good second set of Senns for a lighter sound if I wish. I couldn't have said that two weeks ago! 650s have better power handling though. The Pines of Rome are giving them a work out for the moment. Might have to fire up the Trevor Lees tube pre tonight and see what they sound like. Many cheers to you guys for the tips and inspiration.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Now, after the recent chat on the LD Mk1+, I have a hankering to play with one. It will suit the Denons but do you think I may be better off with the LD II or LD III for the 650s?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Hi Diego,

 Haven't soldered them onto the Earth modules yet...trying to figure what pin 4 and 8 are actually seeing as far as uf total. You see it's actually ( and I could be wrong about this, cause I'm rusty with this kind of thing) a parallel, series, parallel cap pak network...*or* is it series,parallel, series ? Can someone clarify this for me please...my brain has put up the "gone fishing sign in the window" for the rest of the evening 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I sure do like these caps Diego, they are super high quality film and foil in oil caps...with an insanely low price. They are superb sounding caps, and I think wholly unique in nature. They are very neutral, allow everything to pass while adding no grain in the highs, no image smear, they are fast caps..if that makes sense. The Teflon series are truly amazing IMO...I can hardy wait to recap the MC-7R with a mixture of PLIO K75-10 caps bypassed with T-3 Teflons...the MKP film caps in that amp now are clearly inferior but do a fair job considering the overall cost of the amp. The corners were cut here which is why the amp has loads of potential waiting to be tapped. The mod I'm thinking off is almost the same as the Ref Audio mod that cost 600US...I'll be doing mine for about 75 bucks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Here's a pic of the MC-7R






 Whoops off on a tangent again (sorry everyone)....I think I have a cap problem...step one to recovery is to admit the problem and face it ....

 Hello my name is Peete and I'm a capoholic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Peete.


----------



## sennsay

Haven't soldered them onto the Earth modules yet...trying to figure what pin 4 and 8 are actually seeing as far as uf total. You see it's actually ( and I could be wrong about this, cause I'm rusty with this kind of thing) a parallel, series, parallel cap pak network...or is it series,parallel, series ? Can someone clarify this for me please...my brain has put up the "gone fishing sign in the window" for the rest of the evening .


 Those caps are in parallel, PP, but as for the formula to work out the capacitance ... I left my electronics book back in OZ. It IS the opposite of resistors though and I'm pretty sure if caps are in parallel then you just add the capacitance together to get the total.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Diego,

 Haven't soldered them onto the Earth modules yet...trying to figure what pin 4 and 8 are actually seeing as far as uf total. You see it's actually ( and I could be wrong about this, cause I'm rusty with this kind of thing) a parallel, series, parallel cap pak network...*or* is it series,parallel, series ? Can someone clarify this for me please...my brain has put up the "gone fishing sign in the window" for the rest of the evening 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I sure do like these caps Diego, they are super high quality film and foil in oil caps...with an insanely low price. They are superb sounding caps, and I think wholly unique in nature. They are very neutral, allow everything to pass while adding no grain in the highs, no image smear, they are fast caps..if that makes sense. The Teflon series are truly amazing IMO...I can hardy wait to recap the MC-7R with a mixture of PLIO K75-10 caps bypassed with T-3 Teflons...the MKP film caps in that amp now are clearly inferior but do a fair job considering the overall cost of the amp. The corners were cut here which is why the amp has loads of potential waiting to be tapped. The mod I'm thinking off is almost the same as the Ref Audio mod that cost 600US...I'll be doing mine for about 75 bucks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Here's a pic of the MC-7R

 Whoops off on a tangent again (sorry everyone)....I think I have a cap problem...step one to recovery is to admit the problem and face it ....

 Hello my name is Peete and I'm a capoholic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Peete._

 

Well, I don't know eneough to help you on your question, but I do know that I will join your capoholic group


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes they do and yes I do! No brightness that one or two others have spoken of, wonder if it was the amp they used? Smooth as, while I can also hear how they might refine on burning in. The wonderful thing is, the Senn 540s are sounding so good with the HDAM in KHA that they are not in the least shamed by their up market brothers, so I have a good second set of Senns for a lighter sound if I wish. I couldn't have said that two weeks ago! 650s have better power handling though. The Pines of Rome are giving them a work out for the moment. Might have to fire up the Trevor Lees tube pre tonight and see what they sound like. Many cheers to you guys for the tips and inspiration.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Now, after the recent chat on the LD Mk1+, I have a hankering to play with one. It will suit the Denons but do you think I may be better off with the LD II or LD III for the 650s?_

 

Man, that's a really good question. The MKII and MKIII have a proven track record and with tube rolling, are able to perform well above double their price points. The new kid, LD1+ seems to be for 300ohms and lower, but for it's price point, who cares!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It cries out to be tinkered with!! It might be worth the money just to tinker with! Between swapping Opamps and Tubes, it appears to have MUCH potential, and I like that idea much more than I used to. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Driving one cleanly with a modded Zero sounds like a decent idea. I know PP is talking about doing it, so am I, and several others as well.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Haven't soldered them onto the Earth modules yet...trying to figure what pin 4 and 8 are actually seeing as far as uf total. You see it's actually ( and I could be wrong about this, cause I'm rusty with this kind of thing) a parallel, series, parallel cap pak network...or is it series,parallel, series ? Can someone clarify this for me please...my brain has put up the "gone fishing sign in the window" for the rest of the evening .


 Those caps are in parallel, PP, but as for the formula to work out the capacitance ... I left my electronics book back in OZ. It IS the opposite of resistors though and I'm pretty sure if caps are in parallel then you just add the capacitance together to get the total._

 

You're right about that.... I misunderstood his question....
 Yeah... the way the caps are linked (parallel), it's just sum capacitance.....
 Just opposite from resistors like you said.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Man, that's a really good question. The MKII and MKIII have a proven track record and with tube rolling, are able to perform well above double their price points. The new kid, MK1+ seems to be for 300ohms and lower, but for it's price point, who cares!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It cries out to be tinkered with!! It might be worth the money just to tinker with! Between swapping Opamps and Tubes, it appears to have MUCH potential, and I like that idea much more than I used to. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Driving one cleanly with a modded Zero sounds like a decent idea. I know PP is talking about doing it, so am I, and several others as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes, the prospect has become quite mouthwatering! How do these guys do it for the price? My Meier 2Move (bless it's little cotton socks!) cost me a little over 50% more than the Zero has - stock - and still less than that total with 2 HDAMs! No way am I dissing the 2Move, but just check the value from the Zero! Then comes LD I+, I'm just shaking my head. How can I possibly resist such a cute lil amp? I would love a tube/hybrid HP amp!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I understand that parallel = combined uf total. 

 The 2 sub networks ( 1 .47uf bypassed by a .22 uf ) is then wired in series to the other 2 cap assembly.

 I can demonstrate this better with a pic....








 What's the rule for series, is it divide in half ?

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Pench just wanted to point out it's not a member of the MK series...it's simply LD I+ . I made the same mistake the other night assuming it's was part of the MK series..No big deal 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Yep it cuts the uf in half and doubles the voltage rating....not recommended way for installing caps ...I also found out...so I'll have to adjust the idea to full parallel. 

 Peete.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pench just wanted to point out it's not a member of the MK series...it's simply LD I+ . I made the same mistake the other night assuming it's was part of the MK series..No big deal 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Peete._

 

Ah, good point. Maybe there will be II+ and III+ for higher impedance cans, but then that's covered by the MK series, I take it. 
 Um .... where does one purchase one of these cute little tykes?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Here you are S-Man

Viewing a thread - NEW ! LD I+ Tube / transistors mixed Headphone Amp.

 All the specs...contact David or Sword via direct buy link. None of these are listed at the eBay web store.

 Hows the 650's ? Or are you still at work....Yeesh it 2 AM here and I have get up at 6 AM.

 Here's a cool place for more DIY goodies.....hi quality stuff, well designed to boot 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


http://welbornelabs.com/index.html

 Peete.

 PS David said it would drive 300 ohm cans fairly well, although I can't confirm that 100% at the moment. Ask him if you contact them. Theyare super nice guys (Sword and David) and answer all emails really quickly. They love chatting about audio and music ...if they are not too busy that is.


----------



## No Smoking

As the general consensus is that the zero is a great bang for buck dac and amp would you think that the headphone amp stage of the zero(with the head-fi upgrade) would outperform a 80s integrated amp made by Sanyo. Please bare in mind that I'm only referring the headphone stage and not the DAC stage.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here you are S-Man

Viewing a thread - NEW ! LD I+ Tube / transistors mixed Headphone Amp.

 All the specs...contact David or Sword via direct buy link. None of these are listed at the eBay web store.

 Hows the 650's ? Or are you still at work....Yeesh it 2 AM here and I have get up at 6 AM.

 Here's a cool place for more DIY goodies.....hi quality stuff, well designed to boot 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


Welborne Labs Homepage

 Peete.

 PS David said it would drive 300 ohm cans fairly well, although I can't confirm that 100% at the moment. Ask him if you contact them. Theyare super nice guys (Sword and David) and answer all emails really quickly. They love chatting about audio and music ...if they are not too busy that is. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks so much for all that! Will get onto it and have a looksee. 
 650s are sounding really good for new out of the box. A little hard on occasions and sounding a bit tight as one would expect, yet still punchy and clean. Got some serious 'sock' with KHA! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 By the time you wake up around first tweet, I will be heading for my own sweet bed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Got some toons to enjoy before then though ... after Stargate Atlantis!


----------



## Bill Mac

How would the Zero be with Denon D-1001s and a Consonance CD-120 for a transport (coaxial output)? There is a seller of the Zero on e-bay for $165.00 but his rating is only 98.1. Is this a good person to buy from or are there others? I am also looking at the DV-336i and Little Dot MKIII.

 Bill


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bill Mac* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How would the Zero be with Denon D-1001s and a Consonance CD-120 for a transport (coaxial output)? There is a seller of the Zero on e-bay for $165.00 but his rating is only 98.1. Is this a good person to buy from or are there others? I am also looking at the DV-336i and Little Dot MKIII.

 Bill_

 

Hey buddy, I am using a Zero with Earth HDAM (with 1364s in the amp) and the D1000s, as well as new HD650s with another amp. The D1000s rock with the Zero amp! Loads of volume with them and the bass is full and warm, if that's what you like. 
 I bought my Zero from snow46_8 on ebay and he was excellent with me, at least. Most people seem to buy from Lawrence Chan, lawrencechanbig@msn.com and he's the usual source for some of the add-ons to upgrade the Zero. 
 My price from snow46_8 was only $99USD if that makes a difference to you. I haven't had experience with the DV-336i and the LD amps ... yet. Plenty of other enthusiasts in this thread can help you with those!


----------



## gavszero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can u describe with more details about it. One of my fren grab audio-gd buffer too to connect to his amp.

 If u info on the Moon is latest, then we have to wait. Moon is a single ended class A (so I guess it is not a folded design as in Earth), a trait known for tubelike sound._

 

ccschua with the buffer I found the midrange was more pronounce not by loudness but in clarity, but really over the whole spectrum there was an improvement. It does have a 6db gain but even when you switch to the other source your missing what the buffer improved . My setup to compare is I have the CDP > Digital Coaixial > Zero with OPA-Earth > Buffer 3 > AUX input on preamp . From the same CDP ( Harmon Kardon 970 ) using the analog output to CD input on preamp . All I have to do is switch between the 2 inputs to get an instant comparason . Why I choose to use a buffer is I've read alot of CD players have a high inpedance output that if you can get a low inpedance into the preamp it will improve SQ dramatically on cheap to midrange CD players . When you check any CD players in the thousands , they all boast a low impedance output . Maybe this is how expensive interconnects improve the SQ by changing the impedance .. This buffer 3 is 22 ohms and my Class A preamp to power amp in 2 ohms & my Yamaha multi channel pre outs are 1100 ohms !!! I wondered why my yamaha preout sounded horrible compared to my 2 channel preamp .. If anyone can explain why this makes a difference I'd be interested .. Does anyone know the output impedance or the Zero with the OPA-Earth ?

 Kingwa told me about the Moon when he offered me a 2nd hdam , the OPA-Sun as a pressent and how the 2 for 1 started , he then said this

 Hi!Gavin:
 Thanks you reply,if have any problems or advice , please tell me.
 If the feedback of OPA is good, we will produce OPA-Moon, it sound like tube.
 Kingwa

 Hi!Gavin:
 OPA-Moon now have no product, mabey it will product at Oct.
 Thanks your help.
 Keep connect please.
 Kingwa

 English as you know from Kingwa is a bit broken but you can work out what he meant ..

 Gavin ..


----------



## gavszero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Gavin, your bonus caps are on the way to you mate !!! Forgot to mention that....(4 x 1uf K42Y-2 160V's as promised)...they went out last week. They are being shipped via 2 skinny dudes in a 8 ft dingy.

 Peete._

 

Thanks Mate , egerly waiting for them . I've put off making a caddy for the Hdam till I solder on the cap then will make something up .. Also if you could send me the photo to my email of the best solder points .

 Thanks,
 Gavin ...


----------



## Bill Mac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey buddy, I am using a Zero with Earth HDAM (with 1364s in the amp) and the D1000s, as well as new HD650s with another amp. The D1000s rock with the Zero amp! Loads of volume with them and the bass is full and warm, if that's what you like. 
 I bought my Zero from snow46_8 on ebay and he was excellent with me, at least. Most people seem to buy from Lawrence Chan, lawrencechanbig@msn.com and he's the usual source for some of the add-ons to upgrade the Zero. 
 My price from snow46_8 was only $99USD if that makes a difference to you. I haven't had experience with the DV-336i and the LD amps ... yet. Plenty of other enthusiasts in this thread can help you with those! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

sennsay,

 Thanks for you help. Was the $99.00 with shipping?

 Bill


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bill Mac* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How would the Zero be with Denon D-1001s and a Consonance CD-120 for a transport (coaxial output)? There is a seller of the Zero on e-bay for $165.00 but his rating is only 98.1. Is this a good person to buy from or are there others? I am also looking at the DV-336i and Little Dot MKIII.

 Bill_

 

Good list in my sig 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep it cuts the uf in half and doubles the voltage rating....not recommended way for installing caps ...I also found out...so I'll have to adjust the idea to full parallel. 

 Peete._

 

Hi PP just don't forget thos rule of cutting in half is only right when both caps have the same capacitance.....

 The right formula in any case is:
 Ct = C1xC2/(C1+C2)


----------



## ccschua

here is my item for mod.. 100uF cap x 4 for the power supply to the dac & receiver chip. 1 pait of good RCA to to replace the Gucci. On the left is the new extension cable supply for all new orders, thicker and more rigid.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pench just wanted to point out it's not a member of the MK series...it's simply LD I+ . I made the same mistake the other night assuming it's was part of the MK series..No big deal 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






 Peete._

 

Yep! Fixed. The whole naming thing gets me sometimes!!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *No Smoking* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As the general consensus is that the zero is a great bang for buck dac and amp would you think that the headphone amp stage of the zero(with the head-fi upgrade) would outperform a 80s integrated amp made by Sanyo. Please bare in mind that I'm only referring the headphone stage and not the DAC stage._

 

This type of question is tough to answer. The headphone amp in the Zero depends upon the DAC section. It can't take an outside signal and amplify it, without that signal coming through the DAC first.

 If you had a CD player hooked up analog to the integrated amp and then compared that to the CD player digital out to the Zero, then you could get an idea of the overall improvements.

 The other variables will be: Quality of the source, make and model of headphones, types of music being played and whether the comparison would be headphones only, or also outputs to a speaker rig.

 The general consensus here, is that the "HeadFi Deal" Zero will out perform most average CD players and sound cards. It's DAC section is much better and the headphone amp works well with the DAC section, especially with the LT1364 Opamps in the headphone amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm not sure this is helping, but maybe it is.


----------



## 66645

Hi everybody. As I understood from reading this long thread, for majority of the Zero users (including myself) Zero is the first amp/dac. Therefore, it will be extremely interesting (for us) to hear some competent guy's opinion on how it REALLY performs, compared to well known devices.... 
 Something more concrete than "it sounds absolutely great, I love it!!" it's been asked several times here, but I still didn't see any comparisons. 

 For me personally will be interesting to know how dac section compares to something like apogee duet, minidac, etc. Also I would like to know how bad amp section is (after of before mods). Will some dedicated budget amp (LD, Darkvoice) improve the SQ, how much?

 Thanks!!!


----------



## AudioPhewl

^Buy them and compare them, so the whole world will benefit from your findings?

 ~Phewl.


----------



## 66645

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^Buy them and compare them, so the whole world will benefit from your findings?

 ~Phewl._

 

OK, but it will take some time...


----------



## taso89

Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but I couldn't find it: How difficult is it to replace the RCA sockets with "proper Gucci"? Does it require soldering skills?


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *taso89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but I couldn't find it: How difficult is it to replace the RCA sockets with "proper Gucci"? Does it require soldering skills?_

 

Adding to this - where's a good place to buy them, and which ones are recommended? It's been a few weeks - I'm itchin to tweak...


----------



## AudioPhewl

lelek45 - I'd be interested to see how it fares. Keep us posted 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 taso89 - yes, you'd have to use a soldering iron. IMHO a good connection is a good connection, change it if you have the skills and the inclination, but any difference is likely to be extremely small...

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Steph86

Thanks to everyone who helped me with the grounding issue of my volume pot yesterday, I soldered a new cable from the casing of the pot to the pcb and its taken away all the humm. Now I have another problem, in the process of taking apart my unit the cap attached to the HDAM got disconnected, so I had to re-solder it back on again. It's up and running now but I don't know if the cap is actually being used or if it is damaged? Is the cap supposed to get hot, because I have had it running for the last half an hour and there is no heat coming from the cap whatsoever. I can feel the heat from the HDAM if my hand gets close, but when I touch the cap it is stone cold. I'm using the same russian caps as pete if that helps. Is there anyway of me testing it with a multimeter?

 Thanks, again
 Steph


----------



## AudioPhewl

^The caps shouldn't get hot to the touch IMO. Which cap is it you're talking about - have you added one as per the Burson Audio tweak, or is it another?

 So long as it's connected to the correct pins, then all should be good. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## Steph86

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^The caps shouldn't get hot to the touch IMO. Which cap is it you're talking about - have you added one as per the Burson Audio tweak, or is it another?

 So long as it's connected to the correct pins, then all should be good. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 

The caps are the green russian ones that prickley pete uses, and it is for the burson audio tweak. There is no heat from it at all, not even warm. Is there a way of me testing it with a multimeter?

 Steph


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *taso89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but I couldn't find it: How difficult is it to replace the RCA sockets with "proper Gucci"? Does it require soldering skills?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Adding to this - where's a good place to buy them, and which ones are recommended? It's been a few weeks - I'm itchin to tweak... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I've been looking for a better quality set, that is made for board mounting, just like the originals, but I haven't had any luck yet. I'm trying to avoid mounting new ones to the backplate and running wires to make the connections. I suppose I may have too eventually. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I found these chassis mount ones that are pretty inexpensive:
Parts Express
	

ayton RCA-CHRB Chassis Mount RCA Jack Pair

 Has anyone seen a better quality board mount RCA's yet??


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Steph86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The caps are the green russian ones that prickley pete uses, and it is for the burson audio tweak. There is no heat from it at all, not even warm. Is there a way of me testing it with a multimeter?

 Steph_

 

Run a continuity/resistance check from the wire next to the physical capacitor, through to the pin onto which it should be connected. Should be reading <0.2ohms IMO if connected. You'll see infinity/1 if it isn't connected to the pin.

 Pins 4 and 8 are the power supply pins.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## dario

what are the latest news about running 3 hdam? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 In this days I will buy my zero!


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I found these chassis mount ones that are pretty inexpensive:
Parts Express
	

ayton RCA-CHRB Chassis Mount RCA Jack Pair

 Has anyone seen a better quality board mount RCA's yet??_

 

Try here: Audio Catalog

 The Yarbo offering seams pretty nice, you can also find NEUTRIK chassis RCA sockets on ebay pretty cheap, and they are quite good.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bill Mac* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sennsay,

 Thanks for you help. Was the $99.00 with shipping?

 Bill_

 

Sorry Bill, had to hit the hay sometime! No, cost me an extra $70NZD or so to get it here, $211NZD all up and if you could hear it in it's current form with HDAMs in it and KHA + 650s you couldn't get the cash out of your pocket fast enough! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It's almost gone way past the expression, "Bang for your buck".


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Steph86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The caps are the green russian ones that prickley pete uses, and it is for the burson audio tweak. There is no heat from it at all, not even warm. Is there a way of me testing it with a multimeter?

 Steph_

 

Hi Steph,

 It doesn't get warm so don't worry about it. As long as it's connected properly, as AP has pointed out, your good.

 Dario,

 The parts (reg board and transformer) have yet to arrive to check out the 3 HDAM config. My solution isn't practical since you could buy a better standalone *H/Amp for the cost of the Welborne Labs stuff (* LD I+ for example). But....and this is a big but, it may be a really big SQ boost, so it's worth exploring at least.....I may or may not leave it in the FrankenZero, depends on the outcome from the tests. It makes more sense for me to install it in my current project (SuperDAC or FrankenDAC to power the dual Super Cap pak'd HDAMs....lol...that's a mouthful).

 Peete.


----------



## dario

Is that really expensive to power up the hdam?
 Would be more economical to bring onother zero and bring the power supply and all the other stuff only for hdam


----------



## sennsay

Mornin' Team Zero, thanks for the links last night, PP, all great stuff. Almost bought some parts from Welbourne Labs, I wanted to get some Cerafines for KHA but they don't go high enough in size. Plenty of the Nichicons there, though I think I might prefer the Muse variety which they don't seem to stock. I'm inspired to really take KHA out as far as I can, the 650s showed me last night how transparent this design really is! I can see why Pench likes the 650s so much for percussion, they are simply stunning, even after only 4 hrs out of the box. It didn't take them long to loosen up a bit, soundstage widening quite a bit in that time and the mids just a little less tight. Still brilliant. Unfortunately PP, they also tell me very clearly that my tube pre-amp needs some work now, it was nice enough in circuit but there is a good (
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




?) 10% loss in SQ when placed between the DAC and KHA and I much prefer the open book direct via the Zero's pot to KHA. I actually think the SQ of the TL PRE has degraded a bit lately, I've noticed it even before the Zero came home. 
 My HDAMs have some 80 hours on them now and they're a singin' and a dancin'! 
 So, I need to hunt for Cerafines elsewhere, esp for the main PS and work on getting the CAP KIT for the HDAMs. Hints for a good supplier, anyone?


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Try here: Audio Catalog

 The Yarbo offering seams pretty nice, you can also find NEUTRIK chassis RCA sockets on ebay pretty cheap, and they are quite good._

 

I would recommend the RCA from the website above. It looks more solid to make a connection.


----------



## RampantAndroid

So I've traded a few PMs with Penchum, and instead of pesting him further, I'll pose my last question here:

 Using the Zero as a DAC and HP amp - with my X-Fi platinum (using the front bay for Coax output) - will leave my X-Fi handle the 3D audio for games, and mixing and such, correct? So I'll still use the volume panel to EQ stuff, and EAX and such will still be done on my X-Fi...

 M yoverall question is: I game a bit - will I be OK using the Zero for gaming? Will I hear much of an improvement over using my X-Fi to drive my DT250-80s?

 Would I do better to spend 150 USD on a dedicated amp and just use the DACs in my X-Fi?

 Thanks!


----------



## viscosity

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RampantAndroid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I've traded a few PMs with Penchum, and instead of pesting him further, I'll pose my last question here:

 Using the Zero as a DAC and HP amp - with my X-Fi platinum (using the front bay for Coax output) - will leave my X-Fi handle the 3D audio for games, and mixing and such, correct? So I'll still use the volume panel to EQ stuff, and EAX and such will still be done on my X-Fi...

 M yoverall question is: I game a bit - will I be OK using the Zero for gaming? Will I hear much of an improvement over using my X-Fi to drive my DT250-80s?

 Would I do better to spend 150 USD on a dedicated amp and just use the DACs in my X-Fi?

 Thanks!_

 

I was in a similar situation with an a xfi card and being a gamer.. zero is fine for both that and very nice with music. especially with hdam.


----------



## glitch39

*Question to the the zero experts:

 the 22pf at the end of the circuit just before it goes to the RCA jacks - are those wired in series to the RCA outs? i.e., if I jumper the 22pf legs, that I am in efffect bypassing those treble killing caps?*


----------



## glitch39

*BTW, almost done with my 3-HDAM configuration. Waiting to install the reg board for additional current kick. And "i think" I'll be able to fit them all in the case. Just need to figure out how to cool the whole thing once the case is covered up.*


----------



## RampantAndroid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *viscosity* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was in a similar situation with an a xfi card and being a gamer.. zero is fine for both that and very nice with music. especially with hdam._

 

Was there a noticeable improvement over your X-Fi? Is the improvement worth 100 USD + shipping? Are you using the headphone amp, or just the DAC?

 Would I do better to just buy a dedicated HP amp for my X-Fi?


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *glitch39* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Question to the the zero experts:

 the 22pf at the end of the circuit just before it goes to the RCA jacks - are those wired in series to the RCA outs? i.e., if I jumper the 22pf legs, that I am in efffect bypassing those treble killing caps?*_

 

Hi glitch, just cut 'em out. Don't replace them with links, not needed. You will lose nothing and gain a tad. S-Man


----------



## glitch39

so they are not wired in series then? good to know.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *glitch39* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so they are not wired in series then? good to know._

 

No, just go for it!


----------



## Doorknob

So all you have to do is cut out the brown things off that says 22p on them?

 Stupid repeat, I know. Just want to be sure because I'm not at all experienced in these things and I don't know what 22pf means.


----------



## glitch39

*yes... just did here. still works! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


*


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Doorknob* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So all you have to do is cut out the brown things off that says 22p on them?

 Stupid repeat, I know. Just want to be sure because I'm not at all experienced in these things and I don't know what 22pf means._

 

The little brown things are really cheap and very ordinary sounding small value capacitors, apparently to remove the last vestiges of high frequency switching noise. I have no problems with that at all. The 22pF stands for 22 pico Farads, or 22 one millionths of a Farad (which is huge!).


----------



## Doorknob

Soundstage seems to have improved once removing them. Kinda hard to notice though.

 The soundstage rivals that of my Cowon A2. And those things just have massive beautiful soundstage. In comparison with the Zero, A2 has more soundstage, about the same bass quality, but out of Zero's league with clarity and detail. A900 just sings with this setup.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *glitch39* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Question to the the zero experts:

 the 22pf at the end of the circuit just before it goes to the RCA jacks - are those wired in series to the RCA outs? i.e., if I jumper the 22pf legs, that I am in efffect bypassing those treble killing caps?*_

 

Just snip em, no need to jumper. 

 Post the results of the reg board mod for the 3 HDAMs. Are you tapping power direct from the stock tranny to power the reg board ?

 Thanks for exploring that twist on a possible solution....!!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Sganzerla

Would someone mind posting a picture of the board with sniped caps?

 I don't know if my English is good enough to understand the difference between 'snip' and 'cut'.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mornin' Team Zero, thanks for the links last night, PP, all great stuff. Almost bought some parts from Welbourne Labs, I wanted to get some Cerafines for KHA but they don't go high enough in size. Plenty of the Nichicons there, though I think I might prefer the Muse variety which they don't seem to stock. I'm inspired to really take KHA out as far as I can, the 650s showed me last night how transparent this design really is! I can see why Pench likes the 650s so much for percussion, they are simply stunning, even after only 4 hrs out of the box. It didn't take them long to loosen up a bit, soundstage widening quite a bit in that time and the mids just a little less tight. Still brilliant. Unfortunately PP, they also tell me very clearly that my tube pre-amp needs some work now, it was nice enough in circuit but there is a good (
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




?) 10% loss in SQ when placed between the DAC and KHA and I much prefer the open book direct via the Zero's pot to KHA. I actually think the SQ of the TL PRE has degraded a bit lately, I've noticed it even before the Zero came home. 
 My HDAMs have some 80 hours on them now and they're a singin' and a dancin'! 
 So, I need to hunt for Cerafines elsewhere, esp for the main PS and work on getting the CAP KIT for the HDAMs. Hints for a good supplier, anyone? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hi S-Man,

 Your tube pre needs an overhaul I'm afraid (caps ands resistors, if they are carbon comps switch to carbon or metal film / .5 % tolerance )....To look on the bright side, once you do it, your beloved preamp will be a real music machine for another 25-30 years 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've found a place that has a good Cerafine selection...let me see where is that link....here it is...

ELNA audio capacitor , here the home page link...www.thlaudio.com goofy website...but loads of caps.

 Heres another for Muse and Cerafine http://www.hificollective.co.uk/comp...apacitors.html


 Check those sites out S-Man.

 Peete.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi S-Man,

 Your tube pre needs an overhaul I'm afraid (caps ands resistors, if they are carbon comps switch to carbon or metal film / .5 % tolerance )....To look on the bright side, once you do it, your beloved preamp will be a real music machine for another 25-30 years 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've found a place that has a good Cerafine selection...let me see where is that link....here it is...

ELNA audio capacitor , here the home page link...THLaudio Web pages for audio parts by Tang Hill international Ltd goofy website...but loads of caps.

 Heres another for Muse and Cerafine capacitors homepage


 Check those sites out S-Man.

 Peete._

 

Will do buddy, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yeah .... not really looking forward to replacing Mullard's top babies, last Aussie price was $50 each+. I suspect probably the caps and resistors and the stranded wiring the biggest culprits. Mind you, part of it could have been because I've been ignoring the old darling for a while and it may have needed longer than an hour or twos warm up. Some Deoxit on the tube pins might help a bit too, they weren't brilliant last time I looked. It does seem to need a really good warm up to sound it's best, pos another sign that a revamp is needed. 
 And the new 650s are ruthlessly revealing as well, I can hear even the clean and neutral Yam pre-amp in the signal path, so despite my swapping bits and cables around, I always just go back to the WZ silver cables straight into KHA. That level of transparency is quite addictive! 
 Do you know anything about the Gudeman PIO's mate?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would someone mind posting a picture of the board with sniped caps?

 I don't know if my English is good enough to understand the difference between 'snip' and 'cut'. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Snip and cut are one and the same. Just cut them out, that's it.

 Peete.


----------



## viscosity

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RampantAndroid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Was there a noticeable improvement over your X-Fi? Is the improvement worth 100 USD + shipping? Are you using the headphone amp, or just the DAC?

 Would I do better to just buy a dedicated HP amp for my X-Fi?_

 

yeah its definitely better then xfi dac... just use bitperfect in audio creation mode and turn off the fidelity. I do use the headamp and it sounds great


----------



## davve

Hi! I received the OPA's today, got a replacement. First i got the opa's with cables soldered on the opa. But what har they grey things on the opas?


----------



## Currawong

Those grey things are capacitors. They are a recommended upgrade for improved sound. They now come included by default.


----------



## dario

but finally what is the best place to put the opa ground cable?


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dario* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_but finally what is the best place to put the opa ground cable?_

 

A fast and good one would be to tap the RCA ground. They are 3 pins connect to the RCA. Solder a wire to the mid point and use a connector.


----------



## dario

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A fast and good one would be to tap the RCA ground. They are 3 pins connect to the RCA. Solder a wire to the mid point and use a connector._

 

If would be possible see a photo, that would be the best, thanks


----------



## viscosity

does the cap mod also apply to opa-sun? thats what im using.. bit unsure about what type of capacitator i should get and if there are any good ones i can buy at radioshack?


----------



## glitch39

So what is the verdict on the SUN vs EARTH?

 Is it SUN that starts good but becomes bright after burn-in?

 And EARTH is the slower one and remains as such after burn-in?

 Trying to determine which one matches the proper HP's.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dario* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If would be possible see a photo, that would be the best, thanks
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

The center pin is combined ground for L/R analog RCA output. You can't miss it once you have a look. I haven't heard a difference between unattached and an attached either at the analog ground (RCA ground) or pcb hold down screw.

 YMMV.


 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Sour = Andrea....ignore list...ban and deletion to follow...

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

davve;4718579 said:
			
		

> Hi! I received the OPA's today, got a replacement. First i got the opa's with cables soldered on the opa. But what har they grey things on the opas?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Henmyr

So, what does the grounding wire for OPA-Earth do? Change sound? If so, in what way?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Hi Henmyr,

 In my experience it hasn't changed a thing....SQ wise. I'm not sure it's necessary at all. Kingwa insists it be connected to analog ground (not AC ground or pcb chassis ground). 

 I've tried both spots and found uh......(pun intended) Zero SQ difference, that includes leaving it unconnected.

 Can't hurt to have it connected I suppose although I don't bother with it.

 Peete.


----------



## dario

and the marmotta incartava la cioccolata, basta cloni!


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *glitch39* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So what is the verdict on the SUN vs EARTH?

 Is it SUN that starts good but becomes bright after burn-in?

 And EARTH is the slower one and remains as such after burn-in?

 Trying to determine which one matches the proper HP's._

 

Sun is very bright and detailed, not natural or neutral, with emphasis on lower and upper frequencies.
 Earth is flat and neutral, with no emphasis on any part of the sound.

 Sun may sound superb with your equipment and give you a more pleasant experience. However, if your gear is very revealing, then it can sound overly bright and tedious.

 Sun is initially very appealing IMO. It takes a few days to either get used to the sound, or to dislike it.

 Earth, by comparison, sounds far less bright, feels less inctricate initially. Use it for a few days and you'll love it's laidback and neutral character.

 I initially preferred the Sun, but after a few days, found it overly-bright. Now I've used the Earth for a week or two, I find the Sun immediately too-bright and shiny.

*Going back to the 22pF capacitors* - don't jumper them. Remove them, either by desoldering or just cutting the legs. Jumpering will tie the sound channels directly to ground, which'll be no fun at all... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## falke401

I was just informed that my Zero came in the mail today!!!! Its a shame I will not be able to listen to it much for a few days. I will be plugging my hd 650's directly into it, so I will let you guys know how it sounds. I hope a decent amount better because I have been plugging them into my home surround sound receiver.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *viscosity* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_does the cap mod also apply to opa-sun? thats what im using.. bit unsure about what type of capacitator i should get and if there are any good ones i can buy at radioshack?_

 

Rat Shack would have nothing like you need. I don't think I've ever seen a quality cap (paper in oil,polypro,film and foil) ever on their shelves and racks. I go quite often for some parts but get most of the Audio grade parts online...

 A 1 uf film and foil or PIO is what you need...I pick the Russian caps because they are high quality and cheap, something most name brand foil caps can't match. Hovland, Auricap,Mundorf,M-Cap,Aerovox,Vitamin Q,Jensen,Obligatto,Audio Note to name a few high quality caps are all many times more expensive than the Russian stuff....



 Peete.


----------



## fdbf

hi guys... i've ordered sample of opa827 from texas instrument... but they told me opa827 aren't in free sample program anymore!!!

 i want to ask to you all a favour... if someone has 2xopa627 or 2xopa827 please send a private message to me cause i am looking for these opa. i'll pay shipping cost... 

 Thanks


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sour* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't really find it laid back._

 

IMO it's definitely laid-back in comparison to the Sun module. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## sennsay

Hi PP, having a good time over here! Senns sound brilliant. Had another play with the TL pre last night, gave it a really good warm up and re-discovered that the right cable match matters! It sang like a canary! Still could do with an update but it gave me that wide open space where cans and head just disappear to leave musicians suspended in space, uncanny and fantastic! 
 I'm ordering another KHA kit to rebuild from scratch with TQ parts, Dale resistors etc, at $35 who could go wrong! Circuit board on it's own is not available but I want the trannies anyway. 
 Interesting hearing folks prefering op-amps over the HDAMs, Earth especially. It doesn't get any more neutral than that and in my own system the HDAMs comprehensively beat all comers. Shows how subjective this subject can be, depending on different cans, amps and very importantly, how ones ears have developed in listening to music. 
 The ear needs training like any other skill. Best of all, many options are available to everyone to suit their tastes, you gotta love it!
 My 1364s are now well run-in in Zero and they do actually sound rather good with the Senn 650s, had a most enjoyable time with Loreena McKenitt through the Zero for a change. No edge on her voice. Tube pre and KHA was better in that I could clearly hear and feel the breath come from her lungs and mouth, a sense of reality that the Zero amp with op-amps can't match. Plus that amazing openness, quite something. 
 Zero has waaay over 130 hours or so now, losing count fast, what a terrific DAC + HDAM Earth!


----------



## liquid steel

I just got my amp in from Lawrence. Plugged it all in...

 Balance is fubar'd 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Right side is quiet, left is loud 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 Tested it as a preamp to my HK AVR146 with the same result. Checked on old sony cans, Senn CX300, and Senn HD600's. All the same outcome 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Emailed Lawrence to see what he recommends... anyone have any ideas?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Sour is the only one that has preferred an obscure opamp (that is used and developed primarily for the RIAA section of a phono amp) over the HDAM......but listed no gear, no headphone used....nothing.....just an opinion that stinks like Andrea's MO so bad I refuse to believe he's anything but Andrea.......

 I know neutral and the Earth definitely is the definition of it.....no offense sour/Andrea but your full of ****...

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Agreed S-Man...it is a terrific combination, which was my main inspiration for the kit....it goes even further down the "Alice in Wonderland" rabbit hole thus equipped 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just picked up a massive box of caps that came from Digi-Key from the courier hub today (6 pm)....it's like X-Mas 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...Now all I need is the PIO film and foil cap's shipment and I can start making up the kits in earnest. 


 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *liquid steel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got my amp in from Lawrence. Plugged it all in...

 Balance is fubar'd 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Right side is quiet, left is loud 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 Tested it as a preamp to my HK AVR146 with the same result. Checked on old sony cans, Senn CX300, and Senn HD600's. All the same outcome 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Emailed Lawrence to see what he recommends... anyone have any ideas?_

 

Sounds like the same problem mine had. Is it quiet out of the RCA outputs on the rear of the device, specifically when the green LED is not illuminated?

 ~Phewl.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *liquid steel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got my amp in from Lawrence. Plugged it all in...

 Balance is fubar'd 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Right side is quiet, left is loud 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 Tested it as a preamp to my HK AVR146 with the same result. Checked on old sony cans, Senn CX300, and Senn HD600's. All the same outcome 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Emailed Lawrence to see what he recommends... anyone have any ideas?_

 

Hi liquid, if you haven't already done so, lift the lid off the Zero and check to make sure all the op-amps are seated correctly, they may have possibly shifted in transit. You want to look at the op-amps labeled OPA2604 on the main board (from right hand side looking from the front) and then on the headphone amp, at the front of Zero by the vol pot, push down on the two op-amps labeled 5532, there is one in each channel. Try this first. You could also make sure that all the cable connectors that link the main board to the head amp are secure in their sockets. Leave the lid off after doing that and fire it up again to check for sound. 
 If there is still no joy, switch off and leave for a few minutes. If you have electronic tweezers or a small set of long nose pliers, pull the two op-amps from the head amp CAREFULLY and gently swap sides, ie L to R and R to L, making sure that you locate them the correct way in their sockets, ie with the semi-circular notch on one end of each op-amp facing to the back of Zero. Be careful you don't bend the legs on the op-amps. Switch on and see if the same channel is down, if the 'off' channel has swaps sides in your cans then you can pretty safely say that you have a dud op-amp. 
 See how you go with this first and let me/us know how you go. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 P.S. Just thought that if you have a model Zero with the updated op-amps you might have LT1364s in the head amp and pos twin OPA627s on a small board in place of the OPA2604. Makes no diff, you need to do the same checks.


----------



## falke401

Im having troubles with mine too. I just got it today and Im getting no sound at all. I have tried the coaxal and optical input. Im going to pull the lid off to see if anything came lose


 Edit: OK i found a plug that was off. Plugged it in and now like the person above almost all the sound is coming out of the left and makes funny noises when I turn the volume knob.


----------



## liquid steel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi liquid, if you haven't already done so, lift the lid off the Zero and check to make sure all the op-amps are seated correctly, they may have possibly shifted in transit. You want to look at the op-amps labeled OPA2604 on the main board (from right hand side looking from the front) and then on the headphone amp, at the front of Zero by the vol pot, push down on the two op-amps labeled 5532, there is one in each channel. Try this first. You could also make sure that all the cable connectors that link the main board to the head amp are secure in their sockets. Leave the lid off after doing that and fire it up again to check for sound. 
 If there is still no joy, switch off and leave for a few minutes. If you have electronic tweezers or a small set of long nose pliers, pull the two op-amps from the head amp CAREFULLY and gently swap sides, ie L to R and R to L, making sure that you locate them the correct way in their sockets, ie with the semi-circular notch on one end of each op-amp facing to the back of Zero. Be careful you don't bend the legs on the op-amps. Switch on and see if the same channel is down, if the 'off' channel has swaps sides in your cans then you can pretty safely say that you have a dud op-amp. 
 See how you go with this first and let me/us know how you go. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 P.S. Just thought that if you have a model Zero with the updated op-amps you might have LT1364s in the head amp and pos twin OPA627s on a small board in place of the OPA2604. Makes no diff, you need to do the same checks._

 

Just checked these 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Nothing was loose or out of the norm, gave everything a nudge anyways, just to be sure... no fix 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Popped the opamps out (LT1364's), switched sides... no dice


----------



## falke401

Liquid steel, Im in the same boat as you with the LT1364's. At least I'm not alone.... Everything looks fine and plugged in.


----------



## liquid steel

I just had both of my roomates blind-check as well.

 Had them come in, asked them to listen to a few clips of songs that they were familiar with. Didn't say anything about the balance being wrong, or anything being off. 

 Both noticed the imbalance within a minute. I am not going crazy.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Looks like QC is slipping again.....sorry to hear of the problems guys. That sucks when brand new units show up and have problems....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Try pulling the main pcb and see if any sloppy soldering has shorted a trace a two, also look for untrimmed leads, these are hand stuffed hand soldered pcbs, if you find untrimmed leads...snip them and any sloppy soldering (left over bits), clean the board of it very carefully.....do not touch the DAC or receiver chips. They are very static sensitive !!!

 If that solves nothing email the vendor you got them from for a solution. Are both units from Lawrence or someone else ?

 Peete.


----------



## falke401

Its kinda odd we both have the same problem at the same time. I think Lawrence got a bad batch and didnt test before sending. One thing I do notice is of the 2 lights on the small board, the one on the right is not as bright as the left.

 Mine is the Lawrence "head-fi deal"


----------



## liquid steel

Mine is from Lawrence. I emailed him to see what he says to do. I really hope I don't have to send it back to china 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 edit: my LED's seem to be uneven as well. Might just be the angle I am seeing them at, but still...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Liquid Steel is there any way you can test line level out ? Just to see if it's the DAC or the H/Amp board that has dropped a channel.

 Check the pins on the volume pot, see if they are soldered properly, may be a cold solder joint.

 Just trying to think of all the possibilities to test before sending it back.

 Peete.


----------



## viscosity

im really enjoying my system with just the opa-sun upgrade... 

 just thought id throw that out there


----------



## viscosity

only upgrade i may do in the future is a dedicated tube amp. and some decent speakers cause im sick of logitech pc speakers, need something.....more


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *falke401* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Its kinda odd we both have the same problem at the same time. I think Lawrence got a bad batch and didnt test before sending. One thing I do notice is of the 2 lights on the small board, the one on the right is not as bright as the left.

 Mine is the Lawrence "head-fi deal"_

 

That's a short I'm almost sure of it......pull the pcb and look at the underside...see if theres an untrimmed lead, solder where it shouldn't be etc.... 

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

It's also possible the 627AU opamps are buggered. Do you have another dual channel opamp to test the DAC section with to determine if the BB chips are the culprit. ?

 Peete.


----------



## liquid steel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Liquid Steel is there any way you can test line level out ? Just to see if it's the DAC or the H/Amp board that has dropped a channel.

 Check the pins on the volume pot, see if they are soldered properly, may be a cold solder joint.

 Just trying to think of all the possibilities to test before sending it back.

 Peete._

 

I checked it as a preamp to my reciever and speakers, and it was still out of whack. Is that what you mean? (analog out to reciever)


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Yep...line level out, do not engage the headphone/preamp ...

 Peete.


----------



## falke401

I took some pics. Maybe someone will see something wrong that I just dont know. From what I can tell, the main board looks good. I just cant get the volume knob off to see the small one.

 It might sound stupid, but how do you get the volume knob off?


----------



## viscosity

not accusing anyone here... but whats the deal with andrea? who in their right mind would find enjoyment out of creating random accounts just to mess with people about audio parts...


----------



## liquid steel

I just pulled both boards... nothing seems out of the ordinary on either side


----------



## falke401

I just put it all back together now I have a loud hum when the volume is low. ****. Im done with it for the night. Right now, If I wanted to deal with this crap, I would have built my own. Thats why I purchased one built so I would not have these troubles....


----------



## liquid steel

Would pressing that button/knob marked 'Reset' do anything at all? 

 Running line out has the same imbalance as using the head amp, so it isn't something with the volume or head-amp section.


----------



## falke401

I tried that and it didnt do anything for me


----------



## liquid steel

This is just my luck. Six years of putting it off and I get a defective unit when I finally break down.


----------



## alxwang

PP:
 I have done testing.
 Test phones Sr225 and Denon D2000.
 Zero+Sun+2 earth > Duet head phone out > Zero.
 The difference is huge compare to them.


----------



## sennsay

Sorry to hear of that, liquid and falke401, shame that the QC work has been missed on the final assembly stages, it's such a terrific little unit. A hum indicates a short or an earth link is off, generally. I wish you the best with it.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alxwang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PP:
 I have done testing.
 Test phones Sr225 and Denon D2000.
 Zero+Sun+2 earth > Duet head phone out > Zero.
 The difference is huge compare to them._

 

Details Alex, Details 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Is this with the custom reg boards from audio-gd ?

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *falke401* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just put it all back together now I have a loud hum when the volume is low. ****. Im done with it for the night. Right now, If I wanted to deal with this crap, I would have built my own. Thats why I purchased one built so I would not have these troubles...._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *falke401* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I tried that and it didnt do anything for me_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *liquid steel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 This is just my luck. Six years of putting it off and I get a defective unit when I finally break down._

 

All is not lost, try this , put another opamp in the DAC section....a dual channel opamp and see if the problem is with the 627 adapter, the chip on the top looks skewed on that 627AU adapter, wouldn't be the first time the 627's were faulty with this adapter soldered by hand...it's tough to do with smd devices.

 Both of you try this please, we'll get it fixed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Report findings...

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I just noticed something....correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the 627 adapter in backwards ? The notch is supposed to point towards the rca jacks and digital ins......not the front faceplate...



 Peete.


----------



## falke401

Where is the 627 adapter?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *viscosity* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_not accusing anyone here... but whats the deal with andrea? who in their right mind would find enjoyment out of creating random accounts just to mess with people about audio parts..._

 

The guys has issues, he's a bonifide nutter.

 Peete.


----------



## edguetzow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just noticed something....correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the 627 adapter in backwards ? The notch is supposed to point towards the rca jacks and digital ins......not the front faceplate...



 Peete._

 

PP, you are eagle-eyed and brilliant. Yes, to me it looks like the DAC is in backwards. The notch on mine is facing the opposite direction - away from the twin black tower thingies (scientific talk, ya know!).


----------



## alxwang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Details Alex, Details 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Is this with the custom reg boards from audio-gd ?

 Peete._

 

I am not good on write review 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Anyway let me try:

 The difference are about detail and sound stage.
 I using the musical The Phantom Of The Opera 1986 london to do the test.

 "The Phantom Of The Opera" is always tests detail and "Magical Lasso..." is used to test sound stage. If you love that musical I think you understand why I choose those.

 Sound stage: Sun+2 earth make the sound stage way bigger both on SR225 and D2000. SR225 performance better. It even bring me some feeling when I watched that show in Theatre st. last summer - you are in toronto, Right?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Improvement on D2000 is not that big but still easy to feel when do a AB compare. But without HADM mod what I can say about Zero is UNLISTENABLE.

 Detail: That's interesting part. I can not say the detail are improved. Because it sounds like some detail is missing but in good way as my personal feeling. For example: Sarah Brightman's sounds about "sh" at end of word alway make me do not really like it. HD650 handles it very well. But with HDAM zero Sr225 can give me better listening experience now. The changes in D2000 is even more interesting. I do not have to say - it is something like the detail be controls to some central point. If I listen "The Dark Side Of The Moon - Breathe" I can feel it even without AB compare.
 I still think it is changed in good direction for me anyway.

 Basically I feel 3 HDAMED zero bring me more musical listening. 

 The only mod I did about HDAM is cap mod you told me and I still cannot find improvement about those .68 caps.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am going to send my HADM Zero to a university lab to do that output test. I am not sure I need to do power mod yet. If the result tell me HADM needs more power I will otherwise I believe my ear.

 Sorry about my english and hopfully you know what I mean
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

In the blue box...take it out a rotate it 180 degrees.....the notch on the adapter has to match the notch in the socket...which means it faces the back panel. Could have been installed this way by one of LC's monkies.....

 Check yours as well Liquid Steel.

 Peete.


----------



## liquid steel

WINNER!

 I flipped the DAC op-amp, and the dead side switched from the right to the left.

 Where would I go about getting a replacement? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I guess I'll let Lawrence know.

 Peete, I love you.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alxwang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am not good on write review 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Anyway let me try:

 The difference are about detail and sound stage.
 I using the musical The Phantom Of The Opera 1986 london to do the test.

 "The Phantom Of The Opera" is always tests detail and "Magical Lasso..." is used to test sound stage. If you love that musical I think you understand why I choose those.

 Sound stage: Sun+2 earth make the sound stage way bigger both on SR225 and D2000. SR225 performance better. It even bring me some feeling when I watched that show in Theatre st. last summer - you are in toronto, Right?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Improvement on D2000 is not that big but still easy to feel when do a AB compare. But without HADM mod what I can say about Zero is UNLISTENABLE.

 Detail: That's interesting part. I can not say the detail are improved. Because it sounds like some detail is missing but in good way as my personal feeling. For example: Sarah Brightman's sounds about "sh" at end of word alway make me do not really like it. HD650 handles it very well. But with HDAM zero Sr225 can give me better listening experience now. The changes in D2000 is even more interesting. I do not have to say - it is something like the detail be controls to some central point. If I listen "The Dark Side Of The Moon - Breathe" I can feel it even without AB compare.
 I still think it is changed in good direction for me anyway.

 Basically I feel 3 HDAMED zero bring me more musical listening. 

 The only mod I did about HDAM is cap mod you told me and I still cannot find improvement about those .68 caps.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am going to send my HADM Zero to a university lab to do that output test. I am not sure I need to do power mod yet. If the result tell me HADM needs more power I will otherwise I believe my ear.

 Sorry about my english and hopfully you know what I mean
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




._

 


 Thanks Alex...great job 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....I thought you had custom audio-gd boards on order that were sitting in LA customs ? Sorry if you are not the one waiting on those....I found with 2 SUN and 1 Earth, the head amp lost all bass punch and the...well you know that part...anyway...I'm still waiting on my parts to test the 3 HDAM config and see if I can solve the power issue...it retuned to normal when I popped the LT1364's back in. I could take temps from the analog regs and post the numbers with LT1364 then dual SUNS...might be interesting to see if thermal stress is leaning out the current flow.

 If you do have the reg boards...can't hurt to try them out...you may be pleasantly surprised by the result. I'b be very interested in your Lab results from the U....

 Thanks Alex.......the cap mod takes a loooooong time to form....drove me bats when I first did it...then one day..pow...there it is...at least 250 + hours. Drove Pench a little crazy too...he kept asking me ...when does this thing kick in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## falke401

Peete, You know your stuff!!! It worked!!! Now I just have to fix my volume knob because it hums when I turn it and hums all the time too.


----------



## liquid steel

Ok, right side is functioning now.

 Left side, however, has no sound at all. Unless, of course, I change the volume. Then it sounds like someone is blowing in my ear.

 There is also the distinct smell of toasted silicon in the area. I don't know if that is caused by/of the defect, but it probably is a sign that it is toast.

 *looks around for replacement*


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *liquid steel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WINNER!

 I flipped the DAC op-amp, and the dead side switched from the right to the left.

 Where would I go about getting a replacement? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I guess I'll let Lawrence know.

 Peete, I love you._

 

Thanks buddy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Glad I could help !!! Do you have another opamp you can use until the replacement arrives ? A NE5532 or some other type that is a dual channel .....

 Tell LC exactly what happened...it was put in wrong....so it's his fault. He should send a replacement and fire the monkey.

 Peete.


----------



## alxwang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Alex...great job 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....I thought you had custom audio-gd boards on order that were sitting in LA customs ? Sorry if you are not the one waiting on those....I found with 2 SUN and 1 Earth, the head amp lost all bass punch and the...well you know that part...anyway...I'm still waiting on my parts to test the 3 HDAM config and see if I can solve the power issue...it retuned to normal when I popped the LT1364's back in. I could take temps from the analog regs and post the numbers with LT1364 then dual SUNS...might be interesting to see if thermal stress is leaning out the current flow.

 If you do have the reg boards...can't hurt to try them out...you may be pleasantly surprised by the result. I'b be very interested in your Lab results from the U....

 Thanks Alex.......the cap mod takes a loooooong time to form....drove me bats when I first did it...then one day..pow...there it is...at least 250 + hours. Drove Pench a little crazy too...he kept asking me ...when does this thing kick in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

I have those reg boards already. I did not start to install them yet because I do not know where I put them. I have order those 1uf green cap. So if the output test shows me zero need more power I have to have extra box to put power board, HADM and caps and get 3 20 cm leads to connect them to zero. Actually leads is not problem because I think CAT5 network cable will be good fit. That's a big project for me so I really want to make sure before start.

 About bass: I do not feel the bass is gone. HD580 is but sr225 and D2000 is not. but HD580 never works well anyway.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *falke401* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Peete, You know your stuff!!! It worked!!! Now I just have to fix my volume knob because it hums when I turn it and hums all the time too._

 

It has a ground wire on the side casing......check all ground points...heres a pic of the tiny wire that should be on the side of the vol pot casing connected to the pcb. If it's missing solder in a section of solid core wire, or stranded copper wire.






 Peete.

 PS If you have the stock pot the procedure is the exact same. Wiggle the pot slightly to see if the hum stops.


----------



## liquid steel

Unfortunately I don't have any around 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 First venture into real headphones for me.

 Sucks that I'm gonna have to wait for a replacement. Bah.


----------



## falke401

Ok. If i turn the volume half way up, it hums, but equal volume. I turn the volume all the way up, it does not get any louder, still hums, and only the right side works. The ground wire on the volume seems to be fine.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edguetzow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PP, you are eagle-eyed and brilliant. Yes, to me it looks like the DAC is in backwards. The notch on mine is facing the opposite direction - away from the twin black tower thingies (scientific talk, ya know!).




_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *falke401* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Peete, You know your stuff!!! It worked!!! Now I just have to fix my volume knob because it hums when I turn it and hums all the time too._

 

Gosh thanks guys. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I do what I can to help....just noriced the notch and bingo...light bulb went on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...I'm just about ready to add my Super Cap pak mods to the 2 Earth modules in my FrankenDAC !!!!...talk about a pain in the a-s-s soldering these damn things up has been. 

 I'll post some pics in 15 minutes or so when I have them both soldered onto the correct pin pads. They look awesome......bloody things will take forever to break in though....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just noticed something....correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the 627 adapter in backwards ? The notch is supposed to point towards the rca jacks and digital ins......not the front faceplate...



 Peete._

 

Good on ya, PP, you're onto it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I had to zip off for a bit. 627s in back to front is just plain shoddy work! Sheesh! Not enough good coffee in HK sweat shops, eh? I know it's not Mark Levenson, but hey, some QC would be nice.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *falke401* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok. If i turn the volume half way up, it hums, but equal volume. I turn the volume all the way up, it does not get any louder, still hums, and only the right side works. The ground wire on the volume seems to be fine._

 

Your 627s are most likely borked as well. Email LC for a replacement module and explain exactly what happened. Send him the pic you posted here...and he will notice the opamp in backwards.

 You guys could try one of the LT1364s from the head amp section...just to test, it gets too hot if run to long in the DAC section so only run it long enough to check L/R channels for hum etc... Unplug the H/Amp section and pull both LT1364s....disconnect the gray wires (remember which conn goes where, mark them if you have to) from the main pcb board, disconnect the entire H/Amp card. This test will confirm if the 627's are fried. Disconnect the small black conn (that is power to h/amp board).

 Obviously line out is the only way it will work when trying this...you'll need to feed it to a preamp or receiver and plug the phones into that to check.

 If you guys don't want to try this that's fine. You should put in a request for samples from Linear Tech, they will send out a maximum of 5 opamps for free.

 I got 1078's, more 1364's and one other that I can't seem to remember...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just so you have others to roll...with the price being right (FREE STUFF Whooo Hoooo) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good on ya, PP, you're onto it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I had to zip off for a bit. 627s in back to front is just plain shoddy work! Sheesh! Not enough good coffee in HK sweat shops, eh? I know it's not Mark Levenson, but hey, some QC would be nice. 



_

 

Thanks S-Man, agreed, this type of thing shouldn't happen....I have a feeling the monkey at the factory is about to get his banana ration cut in half....and no flea powder for a week. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks S-Man, agreed, this type of thing shouldn't happen....I have a feeling the monkey at the factory is about to get his banana ration cut in half....and no flea powder for a week. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Heh heh! Scritch scritch 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hey, I've been looking at the LD I+, do you know what op-amp they have in there? I can't see what it is in the pic I printed off. Doesn't look a lot of room for an HDAM in there, but hey, it hasn't stopped us so far! 1364 could be on the money? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And one of dem NOS pots that we've got on the Zero and with the WE408A tubes .... mmmm ....


----------



## Pricklely Peete

S-Man the opamp in the LD I+ is MC33078P.....the pic(s) make the lettering hard to read. I'm uploading pics of the FrankenDAC to photobucket, I'll post some pics of the cap paks on the HDAMs then post some pics of them installed before I put the lid back on....Could you do me favor and look up the data sheet specs on the LD I+ opamp please. 

 Thanks bro,
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_S-Man the opamp in the LD I+ is MC33078P.....the pic(s) make the lettering hard to read. I'm uploading pics of the FrankenDAC to photobucket, I'll post some pics of the cap paks on the HDAMs then post some pics of them installed before I put the lid back on....Could you do me favor and look up the data sheet specs on the LD I+ opamp please. 

 Thanks bro,
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Righto, on to it.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

S-Man are these the right pins .....I need another set of eyes on this to be sure (pins 4 + 8 V- V+) It sure is ugly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 Peete.


----------



## sennsay

PP, couple of data sheets for you. Looks like a pretty good op-amp in the first place. This do ya?


 MC33078 
 DUALHIGH-SPEEDLOW-NOISEOPERATIONALAMPLIFIER 
 SLLS633C–OCTOBER2004–REVISEDNOVEMBER2006 
 • Dual-SupplyOperation. . . ±5Vto±18V 
 • LowNoiseVoltage. . . 4.5nV/√Hz 
 • LowInputOffsetVoltage. . . 0.15mV 
 • LowTotal HarmonicDistortion. . . 0.002% 
 • HighSlewRate. . . 7V/μs 
 • High-GainBandwidthProduct. . . 16MHz 
 • HighOpen-LoopACGain. . . 800at20kHz 
 • LargeOutput-VoltageSwing. . . 14.1Vto 
 –14.6V 
 • Excellent Gain and Phase Margins 
 The MC33078 is a bipolar dual operational amplifier with high-performance specifications for use in quality audio 
 and data-signal applications. This device operates over a wide range of single- and dual-supply voltages and 
 offers low noise, high-gain bandwidth, and high slew rate. Additional features include low total harmonic 
 distortion, excellent phase and gain margins, large output voltage swing with no deadband crossover distortion, 
 and symmetrical sink/source performance. 


http://www.head-fi.org/forums/attach...1&d=1221193034

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/attach...1&d=1221193284

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/attach...1&d=1221193347


----------



## sennsay

Yes, I've checked on KHA's pin nos and they are the same, so you are good to go. My own eyes are going wonky from looking at this screen for a while, I triple checked.


----------



## Sganzerla

falke401 and Liquid Steel,

 When did you buy the Zero DAC? I'm worried with mine, was posted in mail 6-Sep-2008. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Good lucky!


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, I've checked on KHA's pin nos and they are the same, so you are good to go. My own eyes are going wonky from looking at this screen for a while, I triple checked. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Actually, PP, you might like this better than the first part of the prev one I sent you. S-Man

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/attach...1&d=1221195087


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, I've checked on KHA's pin nos and they are the same, so you are good to go. My own eyes are going wonky from looking at this screen for a while, I triple checked. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_falke401 and Liquid Steel,

 When did you buy the Zero DAC? I'm worried with mine, was posted in mail 6-Sep-2008. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Good lucky!_

 

Hi S-Man, thanks for the sheet, links and such !!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...I'll have a look at those in a bit, if not tonight ...tomorrow for sure !!

 Just about to put the Cap Pak'd HDAMs into the FrankenDAC and give her the juice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hope it works 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sganzerla, 

 It's only been 5 days, one of those a Sunday...no need to worry...average shipping time is 5-7 business days not including any customs inspection/delay....relax, everything is fine.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Heres a couple pics of the Cap Pak'd HDAMs in the FrankenDAC ...by god that's ugly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 Man that 's a tight fit...I think I need a bigger chassis and I don't like resting the HDAM on top of the DAC chip....have to figure out another spot...

 In this pic the cap pak just barely fits under the cover (imaginary one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) while resting the om DAC chip...hmmmm








 I going to try another placement idea..

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually, PP, you might like this better than the first part of the prev one I sent you. S-Man

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/attach...1&d=1221195087_

 

From a quick glance of the data sheet an HDAM should be no problem in the LD I+ dip socket...If the section's supply is + - 15V it'll be a simple swap 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Heres the powered up pics....no poof and cloud of smoke 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I just powered up the MF X10 V3 + X-PSU/LD MKIII/HK HD720...heard the relay click for digital lock 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Pic 1 day shot...showing new location of 1 HDAM.






 night shot showing off those red leds. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 5 leds lit means everything is good to go....YES !!!!






 Heres a pic showing the new location......dead freaking quiet (listening to Rush-Farewell to Kings - tittle track)







 I hope this sounds good for the effort put into it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 EDIT : It does, it does.....let the cooking begin 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm almost positive this cap pak will take at least 300-400 hours, although it might be less, hard to say. At least theres no hiss,hum,weird phase shifts....etc.

 Peete.


----------



## sennsay

Wow, great work, PP! Good pics too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It looks like you've done the electrolytics too? With Nichicons? Yes, you have a lot more of those bigger caps in a row than in my Zero. Some of the Zeros do seem to have diff caps in them in some places. Most of the better caps in my Zero are in the head amp. 
 Am now lusting after the LD 1+ somewhat. Not sure why, it's just calling to me. It actually has a little more power into 300 ohms than KHA has, and there sure is plenty of grunt in there! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I was thinking/hoping there would be enough space in LD 1+ to leave an HDAM upright, doesn't really look like it though. I do like the neatness of that. 
 You must be knackered mate? Isn't it past your bed time over there? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW, what's the make of the purple input cable?

 PS Might be going a bit nutty myself, got a light head cold and there's plenty of cotton wool in there. Not Zero pics above, of course! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 In saying that, my above comment on caps in Zeros still stands, plenty of scope for upgrades in the PS dept.


----------



## gavszero

Quote:


 It seems like I'm the only one here who finds the purported " neutrality " of the opa-earth to be in fact a sort of tonal dullness and rudeness in retrieving detail?

 My lt1115 op amps are starting to sound just as detailed as they burn in more, but not really so raw. The sound has taken on a lovely refinement and pleasantness that was absent with the hdam. I wonder how the Marantz hdam sounds, as the Marantz players don't seem to have this kind of signature. 
 

Well sour ( Andrea ) you'll always be the only one that is tone deaf and knock the OPA-Earth..

 I use the LT1115 Chip to flush my toilet  Does a great job ..


----------



## gavszero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *glitch39* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So what is the verdict on the SUN vs EARTH?

 Is it SUN that starts good but becomes bright after burn-in?

 And EARTH is the slower one and remains as such after burn-in?

 Trying to determine which one matches the proper HP's._

 

I think you could be correct there , I found the SUN to be great when I first got it but after burn in I found it a bit fatiguing after a while and back to the Earth now which I'm enjoying so much ...

 Gavin ...


----------



## liquid steel

What model number should I be looking for from Linear Tech (if they carry it) to replace my toasted DAC opamp?

 I found the correct head-amp ones, but have not found anything there labeled 267


----------



## gavszero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sour* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_First I'm not Andrea.

 Secondly I'm definitely not the one who's tone deaf here, with all due respect._

 

Yes you are Andrea , anyone that post 20+ post in the first day they join , LT1028 opamp, Silver Digital cables, I remember another name you used to talk about your great silver digital cables .. You need help and it's not in this forum ...


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *liquid steel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What model number should I be looking for from Linear Tech (if they carry it) to replace my toasted DAC opamp?

 I found the correct head-amp ones, but have not found anything there labeled 267_

 

Hi liquid, you have the incorrect number there, try OPA627 instead. They are available on ebay as a duel set pre-mounted on Brown Dog adapter, though LC ought to be replacing yours for nicks. Either get your own BD adapter and buy two OPA627BPs separately, or buy the set on ebay as mentioned, which BTW are 627AU's, being soldered on in surface mount form. 
 A separate BD adapter will allow you to change op-amps for your own experimentation at any time. There's loads of info in this thread on the subject, just type in the search box for what you want. Cheers and good night, S-Man


----------



## lolhahaha

I have a question.

 Since this has turned from being a review thread into close to a 700 page mod thread I can't find anything that answers my question, 670 pages and all.

 Has anybody compared this DAC in this thread or another thread vs any of the other more expensive DACs like the Zhaolu, DAC-1, or Lavry DA10, Headroom Micro Dac or even the DAC and headphone out of a quality CD/DVD/SACD player like the Nad T585?

 I'd review it against what I have here now but I'd like to see something from someone else in the 700 pages here, or elsewhere before buying it.


----------



## lolhahaha

Quote:


 The Musiland instead outdoes it in about every department (except the headphone amp).

 

I will probably use this almost exclusively for the headphone out but would also like to make this the output from my CD/SACD/DVD player, so what DAC can I purchase that is better for headphones and as a line out to my amp? I don't want a 50/50 deal. I want the best source.

 Also, did anyone try this dac with something like this: Decware Zen Triode Tube Output Stage / Buffer

 I will admit that the Dec Zbox made a great difference between any of my sources. It doesn't matter whether I hooked up my 200 dollar DVR to TV, my $1000 SACD player, or my friends $5000 reference SACD player, it always made it easy to get the best output from anything. It wasn't a small difference either. It changed everything and you have control of the sound quality with the variable output to your amp.


----------



## glitch39

Quote:


 I have a question.

 Has anybody compared this DAC in this thread or another thread vs any of the other more expensive DACs like the Zhaolu, DAC-1, or Lavry DA10, Headroom Micro Dac or even the DAC and headphone out of a quality CD/DVD/SACD player like the Nad T585? 
 

I'd put the stock zero to be close to the Musiland MD10, which is twice the price of the zero. stock 2.5C is a *tad
* bit better but the Keces is more musical.


 With the DAC HDAM, it is better than all three above, The OMZ 4.1 is still slightly better - more "flesh and bones" than the modded Zero. But it's 90% the level of the OMZ for one-third the price.

 After the the OMZ and the modded Zero, I can't listen to the stock unit anymore. Nor the MD10 and stock 2.5c for that matter.

 And yes, I have used all those DACs so my comments are valid.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Peete - looks like you've been busy! I thought for a moment that there were a rush of dodgy DACs like mine then!

 Very astute of you to spot the opamp orientation. It escaped me on the first look.

 Though it does raise serious questions about the QC used with Lawrence. For 2 to come through at the same time...

 Oh, and Andrea - even I'm getting bored with it all now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## dario

650 are arrived, they are wonderful, I would appreciate the 595's Hp stand of but there is'nt there is only the "box"...finally they sound quite unlistenable with pc, with Hp out of a commercial Ht sytem they sound very good some time better than 595 but they merit a better amp\dac, I have also the hdam, only the zero dac\amp left (bought few days ago)..


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gavszero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well sour ( Andrea ) you'll always be the only one that is tone deaf and knock the OPA-Earth..

 I use the LT1115 Chip to flush my toilet  Does a great job .._

 

LMAO! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for that Gav! I needed a good laugh!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *glitch39* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd put the stock zero to be close to the Musiland MD10, which is twice the price of the zero. stock 2.5C is a *tad
* bit better but the Keces is more musical.


 With the DAC HDAM, it is better than all three above, The OMZ 4.1 is still slightly better - more "flesh and bones" than the modded Zero. But it's 90% the level of the OMZ for one-third the price.

 After the the OMZ and the modded Zero, I can't listen to the stock unit anymore. Nor the MD10 and stock 2.5c for that matter.

 And yes, I have used all those DACs so my comments are valid._

 

Glitch,

 Thanks for posting this. It will help others put things into perspective.

 The bit about the Keces makes perfect sense to me. I have read many posts claiming the more "musical" sound. In my experience with swapping Opamps in the stock Zero, I'd say that having a "musical" output doesn't necessarily equal better overall SQ. Often, the low and higher end are boosted to give the overall flavor a more "musical" presentation, and this can mean other areas suffer. The real test for the Keces would be a neutral sounding Opamp installed. I have a feeling it might not do so well under this kind of a test.

 Bang for the buck, the Zero still presents itself very nicely. Using my second Zero (stock) as a test unit, I'd have to say the "best" sound it can produce with very little money thrown at it, would be the HDAM "earth" in the DAC section, and LT1364's in the headphone amp section. This combo really works extremely well, besting any other combo's I have tried in the stock Zero. It has superior DAC output and superior headphone amp output. I could stop swapping and modding right here, and enjoy what I hear without any reservations at all.


----------



## ddoingwell

Hello...my question is for Penchum though anyone who knows the answer and gets there first, please jump in.

 Without digging through all 668 pages of commentary on this unit, are the upgrades you're mentioning above included in this upgrade from the seller?
ZERO 24/192 DAC DA CONVERTOR, HEAD AMP(Upgrade Version) - eBay (item 110286717180 end time Sep-15-08 14:00:00 PDT)

 Sorry...I just don't understand most of the technical stuff; I'm a musician...humm it for me...

 THANKS! Don


----------



## DCT

I want to change the RCA Jack on the Zero. How do you do it guys?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ddoingwell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello...my question is for Penchum though anyone who knows the answer and gets there first, please jump in.

 Without digging through all 668 pages of commentary on this unit, are the upgrades you're mentioning above included in this upgrade from the seller?
ZERO 24/192 DAC DA CONVERTOR, HEAD AMP(Upgrade Version) - eBay (item 110286717180 end time Sep-15-08 14:00:00 PDT)

 Sorry...I just don't understand most of the technical stuff; I'm a musician...humm it for me...

 THANKS! Don_

 

Hi Don,

 Unless I missed something, that Zero has the DAC section's Opamp upgraded to the OPA627AU on an adapter. This is a good upgrade for the DAC section for most folks. You could obtain LT1364's for the headphone section, from LT's website, so that wouldn't be too much trouble. Getting the free USB based sound card/Optical out device is another plus, as long as you need it.

 The "earth" HDAM I talked about are sold separately from audio-gd. I recommend it as a final upgrade, if you feel the Zero with it's upgrades doesn't quite do it for you. The only way to know that for sure, is to purchase the Zero and burn it in for 100 hours. Usually, at that point, you'll know if you need to do more to it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 To put this another way, if I didn't have the HDAM "earth" in the DAC section, I would insist on the OPA627AU's in the DAC section. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Have a good one!!


----------



## Coreyk78

Well I have decided to join the fun and get myself a Zero of my own 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I ordered on 9-12 from audiophilechina.com (casque hifi on ebay) for $149 shipped, best price I found, its the standard version. Now comes the hard part, waiting for it to get here!


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Don,

 Unless I missed something, that Zero has the DAC section's Opamp upgraded to the OPA627AU on an adapter. This is a good upgrade for the DAC section for most folks. You could obtain LT1364's for the headphone section, from LT's website, so that wouldn't be too much trouble. Getting the free USB based sound card/Optical out device is another plus, as long as you need it.

 The "earth" HDAM I talked about are sold separately from audio-gd. I recommend it as a final upgrade, if you feel the Zero with it's upgrades doesn't quite do it for you. The only way to know that for sure, is to purchase the Zero and burn it in for 100 hours. Usually, at that point, you'll know if you need to do more to it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 To put this another way, if I didn't have the HDAM "earth" in the DAC section, I would insist on the OPA627AU's in the DAC section. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Have a good one!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hi Pench, very nice to have some nice simple clarity from someone who has done the research over many hours and with multiple combinations and trained ears! Refreshing after last night's nonsense, though the comment on the LT1115 was a hoot. Not the sort of conversation I can be in the least bit bothered with. 
 I am thoroughly enjoying the Senn 650s! What a treat to have such a fine musical instrument in the home, so revealing, yet involving and fulfilling to listen with. You don't listen TO them. They've enabled me to clearly hear the results of a simple test today, as I took the Earth HDAM out of KHA and popped the twin LT1028s back in after a good warm up. Well, they certainly are pleasant to listen with in circuit, but really quite coloured in that position. Nice, though full and soft in the bass, lacking the easy dynamics of the HDAM, but definitely rolled off in the top, enough to restrict dynamics and cloud a whole level of top end air - sounding just a little sat-upon. 
 Having such a neutral DAC ahead of it (with HDAM Earth) makes the "sound" of op-amps blatantly obvious through the Senns. On restoring the Earth to it's rightful position in KHA, all those natural bass dynamics and extended, natural sounding top end air was restored, easy to hear how even the HDAM is. Then there's the midrange, space, focus, more real human presence. 
 Ultimately, no contest. Op-amps - ok to VG (including LT1057 [hmmph! ho hum IMO], LT1028, OPA2134, OPA2064, OPA627AUs [impressive, but definitely not neutral in this position]; HDAM Earth - fabulous! Very easy to hear with great cans through a transparent amp and neutral source. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Plus, I have to agree on the 1364s in the Zero's amp, with the 650s they really are rather good, now that they have run well in. I never really liked them with the HD540s, maybe it's the 600 versus 300 ohm cans. 
 All IMHO, of course.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I understand other tonal variations will suit differing tastes and the 1028s, may suit brighter cans with a reduced bass output, like my 540s, for instance!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Much appreciation for the balanced viewpoint, Pench.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Pench, very nice to have some nice simple clarity from someone who has done the research over many hours and with multiple combinations and trained ears! Refreshing after last night's nonsense, though the comment on the LT1115 was a hoot. Not the sort of conversation I can be in the least bit bothered with. 
 I am thoroughly enjoying the Senn 650s! What a treat to have such a fine musical instrument in the home, so revealing, yet involving and fulfilling to listen with. You don't listen TO them. They've enabled me to clearly hear the results of a simple test today, as I took the Earth HDAM out of KHA and popped the twin LT1028s back in after a good warm up. Well, they certainly are pleasant to listen with in circuit, but really quite coloured in that position. Nice, though full and soft in the bass, lacking the easy dynamics of the HDAM, but definitely rolled off in the top, enough to restrict dynamics and cloud a whole level of top end air - sounding just a little sat-upon. 
 Having such a neutral DAC ahead of it (with HDAM Earth) makes the "sound" of op-amps blatantly obvious through the Senns. On restoring the Earth to it's rightful position in KHA, all those natural bass dynamics and extended, natural sounding top end air was restored, easy to hear how even the HDAM is. Then there's the midrange, space, focus, more real human presence. 
 Ultimately, no contest. Op-amps - ok to VG (including LT1057 [hmmph! ho hum IMO], LT1028, OPA2134, OPA2064, OPA627AUs [impressive, but definitely not neutral in this position]; HDAM Earth - fabulous! Very easy to hear with great cans through a transparent amp and neutral source. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Plus, I have to agree on the 1364s in the Zero's amp, with the 650s they really are rather good, now that they have run well in. I never really liked them with the HD540s, maybe it's the 600 versus 300 ohm cans. 
 All IMHO, of course.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I understand other tonal variations will suit differing tastes and the 1028s, may suit brighter cans with a reduced bass output, like my 540s, for instance!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Much appreciation for the balanced viewpoint, Pench. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks for your kind words Sennsay,

 From time to time, we have to look back over what we have done, so that others who only want to do a few things, have something to go on. I think you are very correct about the 600ohm vs 300ohm Senns. I think this has tripped up a few folks who own the older, higher ohms Senns.

 I also agree with you on the DAC section choice for a neutral sound. I feel this is very important for both the DAC output to a separate amp, and the internal headphone amp. PP and I have tossed many an email back and forth on this subject, with the "neutral" device always winning the day. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There will always be a portion of the readership that feels a colored properly Opamp or HDAM is the superior way to go, for their setup. I say "more power too you guys" and then I make sure I have my "earth" plugged into the DAC and smile. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 SQ is where you "hear" it, not where others tell you it exists. To put a finer point on it, everyone here is looking for digital that sounds like serious analog, with the better digital properties built in. They may not even realize this because they have never heard excellent analog. This shouldn't shock anyone too much. It isn't a digital vs analog thing. It is simply the hunt for the best of both worlds, on a budget. I say, "we win" on all accounts, thanks to the little and mighty Zero. (and a couple of easy mods)


----------



## ddoingwell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Don,

 Unless I missed something, that Zero has the DAC section's Opamp upgraded to the OPA627AU on an adapter. This is a good upgrade for the DAC section for most folks. You could obtain LT1364's for the headphone section, from LT's website, so that wouldn't be too much trouble. Getting the free USB based sound card/Optical out device is another plus, as long as you need it.

 The "earth" HDAM I talked about are sold separately from audio-gd. I recommend it as a final upgrade, if you feel the Zero with it's upgrades doesn't quite do it for you. The only way to know that for sure, is to purchase the Zero and burn it in for 100 hours. Usually, at that point, you'll know if you need to do more to it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 To put this another way, if I didn't have the HDAM "earth" in the DAC section, I would insist on the OPA627AU's in the DAC section. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Have a good one!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Thanks Penchum. 

 I think you just helped me decide what my next purchase will be and I'm grateful for the straight talk, most of which I understand clearly. 

 With a quick bit of cash on hand, I was going to buy a Little Dot MK1+ and probably still will, but I'm going to now wait until after I get the ZERO. That way, there's time for YOUR review of the current favor-of-the-month to give us all, excepting your most recent critic, a clear insight into this new model.

 Keep up the good work; between you and Skylab, I get some wonderful insights.

 Cheers,
 Don


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ddoingwell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Penchum. 

 I think you just helped me decide what my next purchase will be and I'm grateful for the straight talk, most of which I understand clearly. 

 With a quick bit of cash on hand, I was going to buy a Little Dot MK1+ and probably still will, but I'm going to now wait until after I get the ZERO. That way, there's time for YOUR review of the current favor-of-the-month to give us all, excepting your most recent critic, a clear insight into this new model.

 Keep up the good work; between you and Skylab, I get some wonderful insights.

 Cheers,
 Don_

 

Thanks for the kind words Don,
 We just have to learn to ignore the obvious distasteful blabbering of the banned HeadFi lovers. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 If you get your LD 1+ sooner than I do, please feel free tell us your impressions. I like you, have my eye on that little gem.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for your kind words Sennsay,

 From time to time, we have to look back over what we have done, so that others who only want to do a few things, have something to go on. I think you are very correct about the 600ohm vs 300ohm Senns. I think this has tripped up a few folks who own the older, higher ohms Senns.

 I also agree with you on the DAC section choice for a neutral sound. I feel this is very important for both the DAC output to a separate amp, and the internal headphone amp. PP and I have tossed many an email back and forth on this subject, with the "neutral" device always winning the day. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There will always be a portion of the readership that feels a colored properly Opamp or HDAM is the superior way to go, for their setup. I say "more power too you guys" and then I make sure I have my "earth" plugged into the DAC and smile. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 SQ is where you "hear" it, not where others tell you it exists. To put a finer point on it, everyone here is looking for digital that sounds like serious analog, with the better digital properties built in. They may not even realize this because they have never heard excellent analog. This shouldn't shock anyone too much. It isn't a digital vs analog thing. It is simply the hunt for the best of both worlds, on a budget. I say, "we win" on all accounts, thanks to the little and mighty Zero. (and a couple of easy mods) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Absolutely. It's not my way to rubbish anyone else's experience, I just won't participate in tit for tat "my ears are better than your's" conversations (?). 
 As for 'winning', I reckon I've won big time! I have never had a digital system sound anything like this good before, thanks to a souped up budget DAC and all the info from friendly and sharing folk on Head-Fi. All of my 'best' listening came from my t/t's, Linn Sondeks to highly modified Thorens, cheap moving magnets to expensive moving coils. I miss them, they are packed away in OZ for a time. Since finding Head-Fi I have been on a whole different journey and loving every moment of it. For the first time, CDs are sounding really good and all hail to it!


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ddoingwell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Penchum. 

 I think you just helped me decide what my next purchase will be and I'm grateful for the straight talk, most of which I understand clearly. 

 With a quick bit of cash on hand, I was going to buy a Little Dot MK1+ and probably still will, but I'm going to now wait until after I get the ZERO. That way, there's time for YOUR review of the current favor-of-the-month to give us all, excepting your most recent critic, a clear insight into this new model.

 Keep up the good work; between you and Skylab, I get some wonderful insights.

 Cheers,
 Don_

 

Onya, Don, I've just come from 7 years in QLD last year and now living in Gissy. I too am very much liking the look of LD 1+ and it was Skylab that put me on to the lovely little Corda 2Move that I've bought a few weeks ago. 
 I've spent several times more after finding Head Fi, than it cost me to get here via Adelaide! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What fun!


----------



## bundee1

Im up to page 50 of this thread so I have to catch up but who is currently the best ebay seller for the Zero amp in terms of reliability, build quality, speed of service and price? Is there a concensus? Thanks!


----------



## liquid steel

Ok, Lawrence wants me to send my Dac opamp back before he will ship me a new one. 

 Looks like I am just going to eat the cost and ebay the parts myself. I am not going to pay shipping to china, and then wait at least two weeks (probably more) before getting a replacement.

 Bleh


----------



## shaddix

Lawrence took about a week after I paid him to ship my zero.


----------



## liquid steel

He ships on Saturdays. Meaning if I sent mine back it would take a week to get to him, and then at least another week to get my replacement opamps.

 I'll spend the $30 and just get a replacement off ebay in a week.


----------



## bundee1

Any links to recommended ebay sellers?


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any links to recommended ebay sellers?_

 

Look for AudioPhewl's posts - he has the links in his sig. You shouldn't have to go back far - he's here a lot


----------



## Tapiozona

Ive been lurking here for a while and am ready to upgrade my current setup to something better. Right now I'm using a pa2v2 and it sounds nice and all but I feel like I'm missing out on so much more. I'd like to get a DAC and AMP since my laptop/zune could use the boost. I'd also like to find a DAC/AMP combo to save myself time and money. So far I've narrowed it down to the Ibasso D2 or D3 vs the Zero DAC/Amp. 

 I've read that the Ibasso is a great portable amp and a very good dac as well. The Zero on the other hand is a great DAC but I when it comes to being an amp, there isnt all that much rave about it. 

 I'm wondering head to head which would be considered a better purchase. I have no need for portability as I normally listen in my office at work. I just want the best bang for buck. How does the Boa compare with the Zero when it comes to DAC/AMP combo. Seems like desktop is always better but since they're at the same pricepoint I can't tell.

 P.S. My headphones are Denon D2000's if that makes a difference.


----------



## fdbf

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fdbf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi guys... i've ordered sample of opa827 from texas instrument... but they told me opa827 aren't in free sample program anymore!!!

 i want to ask to you all a favour... if someone has 2xopa627 or 2xopa827 please send a private message to me cause i am looking for these opa. i'll pay shipping cost... 

 Thanks_

 

hi guys i quote myself... maybe you haven't seen my post... Thanks


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fdbf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi guys i quote myself... maybe you haven't seen my post... Thanks_

 

Hey I saw your post, but you were few days late - already sold mine to Carter - who'd asked a few days before you... sorry. With all these Sun and Earth units out there someone's gotta be willing to part with them. Otherwise I know I've seen them on eBay already on the adapter... did you try there??


----------



## fdbf

yes i've looked on ebay but they cost so much for being free sample... maybe one of you ship at less... Thanks anyway


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Look for AudioPhewl's posts - he has the links in his sig. You shouldn't have to go back far - he's here a lot 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Glad I serve some sort of purpose 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Fdbf I would of given you my 627 but it broke as I put it backwards into my zero, now the chip sounds ugly and only one side works now. Sorry


----------



## ianp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DCT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I want to change the RCA Jack on the Zero. How do you do it guys?_

 

I simply drilled two holes in the back cover and added 2 new RCA jacks. You can then steal the signal from the current jacks.


----------



## PlasticChicken

I'm loving my zero dac so far. I'm very interested in opamp rolling but I have never done this before. Is it recommended for a complete newbie to try the opamp? Was thinking about getting opa-earth for the dac and the LT1364 for the headphone amp although don't really use it is as an amp very much. 

 I checked the LT website and there were lots of LT1364 models. No idea which one I should get, and what are samples? Free?


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Samples are Free and don't worry its really easy to change opamps.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Hi guys

 Sorry I haven't been around the last 48 hours...I'm pretty ill at the moment. Hopefully things will be better in another 48 - 72 hours..or sooner.

 The cap pak'd Earth modules sound really good...although they need at least another solid week of cooking before passing judgment...I'm still waiting on the PIO cap order ...so no worries about the kits....

 Peete.


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Im up to page 50 of this thread so I have to catch up but who is currently the best ebay seller for the Zero amp in terms of reliability, build quality, speed of service and price? Is there a concensus? Thanks!_

 

I bought mine from wsz0304, I think he still has 100% feedback these days. His price is something like $128 USD + $40 USD shipping for his upgraded version, which does NOT include an ALPS pot, but does include a OPA627 installed in the DAC section, and also a breakout box to get digital out from USB


----------



## katanka

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PlasticChicken* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm loving my zero dac so far. I'm very interested in opamp rolling but I have never done this before. Is it recommended for a complete newbie to try the opamp? Was thinking about getting opa-earth for the dac and the LT1364 for the headphone amp although don't really use it is as an amp very much. 

 I checked the LT website and there were lots of LT1364 models. No idea which one I should get, and what are samples? Free?_

 

You need to get these ones LT1364CN8#PBF 

 also go here
http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LM4562.html

 and get the LM4562NA, give em a try to0, i am using them for now after trying the LT1364, and seem to be enjoying them.


----------



## gavszero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sunripe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Forgot to mention that I have tweaked my Sun modules with a total of 4 WIMA film caps, .22uF 63V. Great little tweak, cost-effective and simple.

 Also the caps are small. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You don't know when to quit do you Andrea ..


----------



## gavszero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sunripe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The WIMA caps are mounted just like you see on the latest modules coming from audio-gd. Therefore, each of them goes from the +/- power rail to GND. 

 I've used 4 of them because my Sun modules are singles.


 Another thing I've noticed is that the Sun produces less heat than the Earth...


 My SVDAC05 is high-end now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Better take your medication , your hearing is going off again .. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Pretty sure you'll be deleted tomorrow so enjoy your rant till then ...


----------



## Currawong

Gav, that doesn't sound like Andrea...but anyway...

 At first I thought the Sun sounded better, but after burn-in, I now prefer the more neutral Earth. With my D5000's directly out of the Zero's HP jack, the Sun is a bit too bright and sibilant. The Sun reminds me a bit of the 4562's we tried out a while back - it's like someone hit the loudness button.


----------



## dario

Andrea you are sick or you have problems, there is no other solution, is impossible to ban is mac address or similar?
 I have never seen on all internet people so stubbornly stupid and with the only interest to brake balls.


----------



## PyrotekNX

I have been lurking the head-fi forums for about 4 years now, and this is my first post. I recently purchased a Zero, and mine is a dud. It sounded great on my HD-595s, but then it started to have issues after about an hour of use. The right channel began to cut out and it had a lot of static. 

 I decided to open it up and I discovered just how bad the build quality was. It looks assembled from a kit and the screws are in the wrong locations. The builder obviously did not know the difference between a sheetmetal screw and a machine screw. I found one of the rectifiers on the D/A board was loose and rocked back ad forth when I touched it. When I was testing the amplifier board, the right channel indicator led flickered and I heard static out of the right channel when I changed the volume. I also managed to damage the TOSLINK receiver during bench testing because it was not properly soldered to the board. I'm not sure if the actual connector is broken, or if I can reflow the solder. Does anyone know what could be causing the issue with the blown right channel?


----------



## Olev

May I ask who you ordered yours from? I've red this thread for quite a while now and lately people seem to have problems with new Zeros.


----------



## PyrotekNX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Olev* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_May I ask who you ordered yours from? I've red this thread for quite a while now and lately people seem to have problems with new Zeros._

 

I bought from the seller wsz0304 on eBay.


 It appears it was made in a sweatshop using unskilled labor. I am going to try to reflow all the solder joints on the boards to see if there is improvement. Many of the components are obviously not soldered in correctly. I hope this solves the issue.


----------



## davve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PyrotekNX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I bought from the seller wsz0304 on eBay.


 It appears it was made in a sweatshop using unskilled labor. I am going to try to reflow all the solder joints on the boards to see if there is improvement. Many of the components are obviously not soldered in correctly. I hope this solves the issue._

 


 Hi! can you upload some pics?


----------



## viscosity

so i got my vol pot from lawrence today... came without the knob.,. so i guess i could use the stock one but there will be a big gap as it extends farther. anyway I could modify it to fit?

 also im not to keen on desoldering.. I have desoldering braid, how would I go about desoldering the old pot?


----------



## AudioPhewl

viscosity - use a solder sucker. Add a little fresh solder with a soldering iron, then use the sucker to whoop-up the molten blob.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Scanberg

Hey guys,

 I've been using the Zero for quite some time now and I'm really pleased with it and a couple of days ago I got some OPamps for it fresh from Lawrence.

 It's 1364's for the Headamp and a Hdam-module for the Dac.

 Here's the problem:

 The Hdam-Module is getting REALLY hot, when I used it I had it beneath the Vents in the chassi for the best possible cooling without any major modifications.
 This however isn't enough, the module was burning hot when I removed it and you can actually feel the smell of "Hot-Electronic-Components" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 It was connected to ground through a PCB-screw at first, but then the right channel was dead. (I guess it's because I don't have ground in any power-outputs in this room.) So I removed the ground and that problem was solved.

 Is my Hdam a "Monday-specimen"? is the lack of ground making it overheat?

 I'm pretty clueless of what to do, any help is very appreciated.

 Thank you guys for a wonderful and amusing thread.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Gav, that doesn't sound like Andrea...but anyway...

 At first I thought the Sun sounded better, but after burn-in, I now prefer the more neutral Earth. With my D5000's directly out of the Zero's HP jack, the Sun is a bit too bright and sibilant. The Sun reminds me a bit of the 4562's we tried out a while back - it's like someone hit the loudness button._

 

Oh it's him alright.....don't feed the troll folks...ignore is the best route to follow until ban and deletion takes place. The info he is providing is useless and most likely BS....so...does anyone mind telling me what this supposed advice has to do with the Zero ? Nothing ? Yep...useless.

 I agree with your observations about the two types of modules, one is clearly colored and the other is not. I find the voicing on the SUN module to be bordering on cartoonish in nature. It's way to tipped up...a subtle shading would have been far more useful IMHO. I will explore an attempt to re voice this HDAM if possible in the near future. How that might be accomplished is open for debate...so any ideas you guys can come up with will be welcome.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Scanberg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys,

 I've been using the Zero for quite some time now and I'm really pleased with it and a couple of days ago I got some OPamps for it fresh from Lawrence.

 It's 1364's for the Headamp and a Hdam-module for the Dac.

 Here's the problem:

 The Hdam-Module is getting REALLY hot, when I used it I had it beneath the Vents in the chassi for the best possible cooling without any major modifications.
 This however isn't enough, the module was burning hot when I removed it and you can actually feel the smell of "Hot-Electronic-Components" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 It was connected to ground through a PCB-screw at first, but then the right channel was dead. (I guess it's because I don't have ground in any power-outputs in this room.) So I removed the ground and that problem was solved.

 Is my Hdam a "Monday-specimen"? is the lack of ground making it overheat?

 I'm pretty clueless of what to do, any help is very appreciated.

 Thank you guys for a wonderful and amusing thread._

 


 That's unusual. Mine gets warm, nothing more. Is the Zero on top of another hot device...or in an enclosed area with little airflow ? Is the HDAM correctly installed in the socket (as in crescent facing the rear plate ?) Do not place the module at the opening of the grill on the top...all the heat from the entire unit flows out through that opening so in essence your heating the HDAM up rather than cooling it down. Keep it away from that spot.

 Report back your findings. Leave the lid off for a while to see what temp the HDAM gets to. It should only be slightly warm to the touch. Keep it away from the voltage regulators (the devices with the vertical heat sinks), they produce 80% of the heat inside the Zero.

 Report back your findings please 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Scanberg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys,

 I've been using the Zero for quite some time now and I'm really pleased with it and a couple of days ago I got some OPamps for it fresh from Lawrence.

 It's 1364's for the Headamp and a Hdam-module for the Dac.

 Here's the problem:

 The Hdam-Module is getting REALLY hot, when I used it I had it beneath the Vents in the chassi for the best possible cooling without any major modifications.
 This however isn't enough, the module was burning hot when I removed it and you can actually feel the smell of "Hot-Electronic-Components" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 It was connected to ground through a PCB-screw at first, but then the right channel was dead. (I guess it's because I don't have ground in any power-outputs in this room.) So I removed the ground and that problem was solved.

 Is my Hdam a "Monday-specimen"? is the lack of ground making it overheat?

 I'm pretty clueless of what to do, any help is very appreciated.

 Thank you guys for a wonderful and amusing thread._

 

On top of what PP replied, Do you have the HDAM wrapped in something to keep it safe (electrically isolated) from other electronic goodies??


----------



## Doorknob

For all of those people getting the "Really Hot Case Problems and Possibly With The Side Effect of I Can't Get My Hand on the Zero Longer Then 10 Seconds" switch your HDAM. You probably put them in the wrong way when inserting one.

 Do that right now. Don't leave them cooking that way or it'd gonna damage your HDAM and screw up the components the way my Sun got damaged.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PyrotekNX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I bought from the seller wsz0304 on eBay.


 It appears it was made in a sweatshop using unskilled labor. I am going to try to reflow all the solder joints on the boards to see if there is improvement. Many of the components are obviously not soldered in correctly. I hope this solves the issue._

 

If this is so, it represents something new to watch out for. Generally, most of the Zero's have the normal "assembly line" look to them, with soldering joints all looking about the same, and nothing too special or worrisome either. The occasional re-solder on one or two spots, to fix a QC problem, but that is about all. Please post pics if you can. Thanks!!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Doorknob* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For all of those people getting the "Really Hot Case Problems and Possibly With The Side Effect of I Can't Get My Hand on the Zero Longer Then 10 Seconds" switch your HDAM. You probably put them in the wrong way when inserting one.

 Do that right now. Don't leave them cooking that way or it'd gonna damage your HDAM and screw up the components the way my Sun got damaged._

 

I want to add to this for everyone. You MUST match up the "keyway" when plugging in an Opamp or HDAM. There is a half circle shape cut into the socket on the board, and one on the male socket wired to the HDAM. Match those half circles up!!! They usually point to the rear of the unit.


----------



## Scanberg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On top of what PP replied, Do you have the HDAM wrapped in something to keep it safe (electrically isolated) from other electronic goodies??_

 

Ty for your quick replies PP & Penchum;
 I'm currently using the module straight in the socket without any extension-cables and without any lid but the result is still the same, it gets too hot.

 The room is about 22 Degrees Celcius and pretty spacy so there should be sufficient cooling.

 I've double checked the direction of the marker and the "cresent" is facing the same direction as the one in the socket, meaning towards the backplate.

 Do I dare to turn the module 180 degrees?

 /Update

 I took a look at the extension-cable and noticed that the left row of pins was connected to the right row and vice versa,
 This is probably the cause of the problem and might have damaged the whole module I guess...


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Scanberg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Do I dare to turn the module 180 degrees?_

 

MMM... unless it is SOUNDING bad I wouldn't risk that - although I'm certainly no expert. Maybe you've already mentioned this but is it considerably hotter than the opamps - like too hot to touch? My Sun runs a little warmer than the opamps did but certainly nothing to worry about. My Little Dot runs hotter. I put a fan next to them both and heat is no longer an issue at all.


----------



## PyrotekNX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If this is so, it represents something new to watch out for. Generally, most of the Zero's have the normal "assembly line" look to them, with soldering joints all looking about the same, and nothing too special or worrisome either. The occasional re-solder on one or two spots, to fix a QC problem, but that is about all. Please post pics if you can. Thanks!!_

 

I would post pics, but there isn't much to see. With visual inspection, it looks normal. Some components feel loose and there are definitely some cold solder joints. The boards look hand built in the way that every component isn't lined up exactly like they would be if it was computer built. There definitely is a kit like look to it. I am reflowing the solder joints now; I will keep everyone posted.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Scanberg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ty for your quick replies PP & Penchum;
 I'm currently using the module straight in the socket without any extension-cables and without any lid but the result is still the same, it gets too hot.

 The room is about 22 Degrees Celcius and pretty spacy so there should be sufficient cooling.

 I've double checked the direction of the marker and the "cresent" is facing the same direction as the one in the socket, meaning towards the backplate.

 Do I dare to turn the module 180 degrees?

 /Update

 I took a look at the extension-cable and noticed that the left row of pins was connected to the right row and vice versa,
 This is probably the cause of the problem and might have damaged the whole module I guess..._

 

Ow my! That is crazy! I would contact them immediately by email and enclose a pic of it. They should send you a replacement and a new cable right away!


----------



## PyrotekNX

Update: TOSLINK connector was definitely broken. 2 pins were snapped off. When I replace the TOSLINK, I will have to be sure to hotglue it to the board so it won't move. Problem appears to be in the amplifier board, not sure where though. It seems like the right channel is completely blown. I am getting a noise that sounds kind of like brown noise or pink noise. When I turn the amp on, I get a loud pop out of that channel. I tried swapping opamps, both seem to be fine. If I could narrow this down to a single component, I might be able to fix it. Otherwise, this is a bit out of my league.


----------



## gavszero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Gav, that doesn't sound like Andrea...but anyway...

 At first I thought the Sun sounded better, but after burn-in, I now prefer the more neutral Earth. With my D5000's directly out of the Zero's HP jack, the Sun is a bit too bright and sibilant. The Sun reminds me a bit of the 4562's we tried out a while back - it's like someone hit the loudness button._

 

Hey Currawong . Yeah I must admit when I first tested out the SUN I was blown away but after a while I found it peaky & fatiguing . Whether as the hours built up ( 100 hours + ) and actually made it sound brighter I don't know . I now have the earth slotted in and loving it amensly , it's amazing how good the zero sounds now for so little money .. I have the LT1364's in the headamp but don't have any decent headphones at the moment . I borrowed a pair of AKG 701 of a friend with about 350 hours on them, has heaps of detail but lacks in the bottom end so I'm looking at picking up a pair of Senns HD650's ...

 Gavin ...


----------



## sennsay

Ditto on the Sun, gavzero and currawong. Until yesterday, my Suns had stayed in their wrapping and since my Earth modules are now well run in, thought I'd give the Sun some .. er .. exposure. Left them running most of the day but on later listening, they are so tipped up at the frequency extremes that I found them fatiguing after a while, as you have. Earth has gone back in already. It might not seem a fair deal to the Sun module, but by most accounts this signature gets worse, not better. Glad they suit some people though, different strokes and all that. They just made my Senn 650s sound cheap, almost. Quite an extraordinary thing to hear really. Don't know what I am going to do with two of them now, though I do want a couple more OPA Earth for other projects.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 If it interests you at all, gavzero, I bought my Senns from the States and saved myself $400NZD of the full retail! I can recommend the seller if you like?


----------



## gavszero

If it interests you at all, gavzero, I bought my Senns from the States and saved myself $400NZD of the full retail! I can recommend the seller if you like?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




[/QUOTE]

 Thanks Sennsay , I've been keeping an eye on US eBay for the Senn 650's and definitely much cheaper that way then to buy locally .. Now to just save those pennies ...

 Gavin ..


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Wow what I just noticed is that my Earth and the LT1364 are tooooo hot! The cover has been off the whole time. Also its been running like this for a few weeks now so I don't know what to think. I only noticed this heat issue because a previous poster had a similar problem.


----------



## gavszero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow what I just noticed is that my Earth and the LT1364 are tooooo hot! The cover has been off the whole time. Also its been running like this for a few weeks now so I don't know what to think. I only noticed this heat issue because a previous poster had a similar problem._

 

Hot as in how hot ? Are you able to take the temp with the cover on ? I stuck a digital thermometer in mine with the lid on and it got up to 45C internally with external temp been about 22C . That seems to be the temperature , most of the heat I found comes from the 4 regulators on the head board .. Can't touch those as it feels like it's going to burn your finger ...

 Gavin ..


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Thanks Mods !!!!

 Peete.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gavszero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hot as in how hot ? Are you able to take the temp with the cover on ? I stuck a digital thermometer in mine with the lid on and it got up to 45C internally with external temp been about 22C . That seems to be the temperature , most of the heat I found comes from the 4 regulators on the head board .. Can't touch those as it feels like it's going to burn your finger ...

 Gavin .._

 

It gets so hot that I can't keep my finger on the LT's and Earth for long. It feels like I will burn my finger and this was with the cover off.


----------



## gavszero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It gets so hot that I can't keep my finger on the LT's and Earth for long. It feels like I will burn my finger and this was with the cover off._

 

I haven't actually touch the chips to test , i've only tested the ambient temperature internally.. a lot of chips can run safely too hot for anyones finger .. If your not getting any sound degeneration or the smell of anything burning I wouldn't worry too much .. When I touch my zero on top it is quite hot but I've burned the SUN & Earth running 24/7 for days cooking away without anything burning up .. Touch wood .. I am going to drill some holes in line with each regalator behind the head amp and have a convection flow of air to see how that goes .. If that doesn't work i've got heaps of computer parts including some video card fans which are pretty small and quite .

 Gavin ...


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It gets so hot that I can't keep my finger on the LT's and Earth for long. It feels like I will burn my finger and this was with the cover off._

 

Hmm, that's absolutely crazy! I wonder if there has been a resistor or two of the wrong value put in the circuit. They really should only get warm, never hot. Certainly a circuit diagram would be handy. Have you tried other op-amps in the same position to see what happens with them? If the HDAM isn't getting the right current then it would make sense that the op-amps down stream will be affected. If I remember correctly, when Penchum was swapping op-amps a ways back, when the op-amp in the DAC was hot, so were the op-amps in the head amp. Maybe Pench could confirm that, if it's worth looking at.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Ok i am kind of lost but the Lt1463 are WAAAAAAAAAY hot to touch. Also another thing that I have noticed is that when I turn off my Zero with the headphones connected it makes a loud popping noise.


----------



## gavszero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok i am kind of lost but the Lt1463 are WAAAAAAAAAY hot to touch. Also another thing that I have noticed is that when I turn off my Zero with the headphones connected it makes a loud popping noise._

 

Hey LeBuLLeT

 Don't listen to Charad , IT's a nusence that you'll learn will pop up on a daily bases with rubbish and information not relevent . You can normally tell by the number of messages writen today , IT keeps getting deleted so this is another day ..


----------



## gavszero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok i am kind of lost but the Lt1463 are WAAAAAAAAAY hot to touch. Also another thing that I have noticed is that when I turn off my Zero with the headphones connected it makes a loud popping noise._

 

I just popped off the cover on mine and my LT1364's are pretty hot too to touch .. The OPA-Earth Hdam in the DAC is only warm ...


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Hey charad is that one person that keeps getting banned correct? Yea the lt1364 are BLAZING! I doubt they are made to run that hot.


----------



## gavszero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey charad is that one person that keeps getting banned correct? Yea the lt1364 are BLAZING! I doubt they are made to run that hot._

 

Yep thats the person , he'll be back tomorrow with a different name ..

 I just looked up the data sheet and for the LT1364's the temp range is 40C to 85C .. Just Google lt1364 temperature ...


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gavszero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep thats the person , he'll be back tomorrow with a different name ..

 I just looked up the data sheet and for the LT1364's the temp range is 40C to 85C .. Just Google lt1364 temperature ..._

 

Has someone already called the EU's computer fraud/harassment 800 hotline number? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A little LT1364 history:

 Back when the LT1364 was being looked at for DAC section use, it was getting way too hot for everyone to feel safe about it, but, when measured with my laser temp gun, it was around 80C after 24/7 use. A couple of guys liked it so much in the DAC position, they put aluminum stick-on coolers on them, to keep them cooler during long listening sessions. That Opamp really is tops for SQ in the DAC section! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It just seemed too risky, so the majority kindly stopped recommending it for the DAC section.

 Then it was discovered that the LT1364's strongest trait, was it's ability to "not" colorize a neutral DAC signal, like many other Opamps do by default. It's not entirely "flat", but adds just a tiny little bit in the right places, making it a perfect companion for the headphone amp section, and the majority of headphones that are being used.

 The LT1364's get far less hot in the headphone amp section. Enough so that I haven't felt the need to measured it, but I will before too long, so we have a true picture of the heat issue. I've been running them in my headphone section for a good long time now, and the heat generated hasn't caused any side effects, so I think we are still ok for this usage. There are hundreds of Zero's out there now, using the LT1364's in the headphone amps, and everything is fine. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 On a side note: The Zero's case isn't totally setup to cool properly after mods have been done. There are NO air "intakes" for the case. For proper convection currents to form, you would need a few air intake holes in the bottom of the case, toward the front edge. As the air inside of the case rises in temperature, the hottest air flows out the vents on the top rear of the unit, while room temperature air is "pulled" in from the front bottom. This establishes an air flow current that helps keep everything cooler. This is another small project I've had on the "to do" list for a while. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 If someone has already checked this and done it, please post away!!


----------



## taso89

Hey everyone! OPA-Earth and Sun are back in stock and some more good news from Kingwa:

  Quote:


 Yes, we have in stock, and we have new OPA-Moon at later 2-5 days,
 and We have SUN new version,
 postage to USA price is USD23 by DHL.
 In September, we offer accelerate price is buy 2 EARTH or SUN, free 1 Moon.
 Kingwa 
 

This is too tempting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 However I have an LD I+ on the way and don't want to overdo the "tube sound" thing! I'm also tempted to try this new Sun, perhaps they've fixed the "smiley-face EQ" problems associated with it, but my Denons are smiley-face EQ'd enough as it is 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It might just be OPA-Earth for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Although I would've loved to be the first to report on the OPA-Moon.


----------



## shaddix

How long is the DAC in the zero going to last me? As in like, how much better does my amp and headphones have to be before the zero is the limiting factor?


----------



## Nocturnal310

Hi guys, a Question,'

 IF Zero is used as the only source with No dedicated amp. 

 How good is it?

 I will be using for my HD555 and later upgrade to HD600 mostly.


----------



## Citizen86

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nocturnal310* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys, a Question,'

 IF Zero is used as the only source with No dedicated amp. 

 How good is it?

 I will be using for my HD555 and later upgrade to HD600 mostly._

 

Zero has an internal amp, a pretty good one at that.


----------



## viscosity

whats a good tube amp to pair with the Zero? looking for a dedicated amp..


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *viscosity* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_whats a good tube amp to pair with the Zero? looking for a dedicated amp.._

 

Absolutely love my Little Dot MKIII and I know there's at least a few others here (Pench and Peete included) who also love their little dots. Certainly a good place to start looking. Also heard good things about darkvoice but never heard one myself...


----------



## viscosity

yea i heard the Darkvoice 336i pairs well with k701s.. which is what I have. suppose I couldn't go wrong with either


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shaddix* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How long is the DAC in the zero going to last me? As in like, how much better does my amp and headphones have to be before the zero is the limiting factor?_

 

I'm using it(quite modified, I should add) with my Stax SRS-4040II rig, if that helps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 I dare say spending more on a DAC would give a better sound, but it's certainly far from being bad, or in dire need of replacement.

 Wait for the kits to come out from Prickley Peete and Penchum. At that point I reckon you'll need to bank on spending over $1000 to find any appreciable difference in sound quality. Zero DAC and OPA-Earth is about as good as you'll get without spending considerably more.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## viscosity

has anyone tried an OPA-earth or sun in the little dot hybrid???


----------



## viscosity

been digging through this thread to find out about the cap mod and I need some help..

 according to this photo by pete.. I think it shows pin 4 and 8 connected.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 what then is this diagram about? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 seems to show them instead connected to ground.

 Which one provides better SQ? Also excuse my noobness..... but are these the correct caps?


----------



## Olev

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *viscosity* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Also excuse my noobness..... but are these the correct caps?_

 

Don't blast me with bazookas now, but why are you putting so special capacitors in the POWER path? This quality capacitor is for SIGNAL path. Even audio-gd (the company that MAKES Sun and Earth uses usual Polypropylene capacitors on the new models, that are more than enough for power path). This seems a lot like snake-oiling, it just does not make any sense using audio quality capcitors in power chain. Of course I could be wrong but has anyone blind tested usual high quality Polypropylene vs russian military paper in oil capacitors in the POWER path and claim to hear the difference?


----------



## PlasticChicken

Sorry but I have to ask, I tried reading through 675 pages but it was too much. I'm about to order opa-earth and I have no idea how many I need and what "Extension lead of the OPA" is. I'm only using the zero as a DAC at the moment. 

 Also, would I need anything beyond a screw driver to install opamps? 

 Another question is if upgrading the h/amp is worth it since I'm feeding it to a ibasso d2 viper. They are both stock, and I was wondering if a rolled opamp viper or a rolled zero would end up sounding better. I mainly use my ATH-AD2000 and DT770/80s. I'm planning to sell my viper if it is inferior to an upgraded zero since I have no need for portability anymore but would like to keep it if an upgraded viper indeed sounds better. Thanks in advance.

 Oh its my first time rolling opamps, sorry for my super noobiness.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Olev* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't blast me with bazookas now, but why are you putting so special capacitors in the POWER path? This quality capacitor is for SIGNAL path. Even audio-gd (the company that MAKES Sun and Earth uses usual Polypropylene capacitors on the new models, that are more than enough for power path). This seems a lot like snake-oiling, it just does not make any sense using audio quality capcitors in power chain. Of course I could be wrong but has anyone blind tested usual high quality Polypropylene vs russian military paper in oil capacitors in the POWER path and claim to hear the difference?_

 

No bazookas! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 If you look back over the last 100 pages or so, all of this was a debated topic and the answers are there. The short answer is "Yes", they do make a difference and "Yes", the Russian PIO's are that good. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also, the point of using the Russian PIO's was to obtain the quality without the high price, so that the cost of the mods would match the Zero's "bang for the buck" scenario. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The pic you see re-posted is an experiment being conducted by PP. The actual "proven" mod for the HDAM calls for one cap only.


----------



## TitaniumTaco

For anyone on the fence, go for it.
 They are wonderul DACs, I was so happy with my purchase, that I bought another shortly after...


 If anyone is looking for a Mint, barely used Zero DAC let me know. 
 I also have a 627au/ adaptor Op-Amp which was purchased from Lawrence for sale.
 Have had it for less than a month. 
 I know it is my first post but you can check my feedback and date of purchase on Ebay, titaniumtaco.


----------



## bundee1

I ordered mine from wcz3040 ( I think that's his name) and iasked him to test it before it ships but he shipped it already. anyone buy from him and get a good unit? I hope the stock unit or a quick op amp switch will improve the sound of my sb3.


----------



## azncookiecutter

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered mine from wcz3040 ( I think that's his name) and iasked him to test it before it ships but he shipped it already. anyone buy from him and get a good unit? I hope the stock unit or a quick op amp switch will improve the sound of my sb3._

 

I got a perfect one from him.


----------



## bundee1

how long ago did you order from him?


----------



## azncookiecutter

About a month ago. Had great communication with him throughout, definitely one of the trusted sellers to get it from.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

azncookiecutter is the Millet Hybrid a better amp than the built in amp in the Zero?


----------



## azncookiecutter

It's a much much better amp than the Zero amp, but that's because it mates with the MS-1 so well. By no means the built-in amp is bad, it's definitely on par, if not better, than portable amps in the same price range such as the Go-Vibe Petite and iBasso Boa.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Good to hear cookie cutter. I have all the parts necessary to build the Millet Just need a case for it. Do you know how it sounds with a HD650?


----------



## Currawong

The Zero's built-in amp is sufficient, but not great. What this means is, if you're new-ish to head-fi and the Zero is your first DAC/amp for use with, say, your computer and you've got some half-decent cans that are mid-range in the manufacturer's line, the Zero will fairly blow you away. If you've been around this all a while and you have higher-end cans, you'll want a dedicated amp for the Zero to feed.

 If you're considering an amp, pick one that goes with your favourite cans rather than asking if it'll suit the Zero. That, IMO, is more important when choosing an amp.

 Another thought - if you've shelled out a fair bit on IEMs and want to use them at home with your computer, the Zero does a lot of good to my Etys and UEs.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

I have the Zero with Earth and now I just need a dedicated amp for it. Just saving up some extra money so I can get an excellent amp. I just bought the parts for the Millet Hybrid so I can learn how to build an amp. I was thinking about getting the Darkvoice 337 heard lots of good things about it.


----------



## shaddix

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_if you're new-ish to head-fi.... Zero is your first DAC/amp for use with, say, your computer...... got some half-decent cans... *the Zero will fairly blow you away.*_

 






























 Status: Foreign Acceptance

 Your item was accepted in HONG KONG on September 13, 2008 at 11:56 AM. Information, if available, is updated every evening. Please check again later.


 ; _ ;


----------



## uncola

Hi, I'm thinking about making the zero my first headphone amp and I have sennheiser hd590 and shure e3c.. is this a good pairing? I use the hd590's almost continuously for movies and music with my computer with integrated soundcard.. I do have an optical out I could use


----------



## st4r0c3an

"Hey. I also bought this amp and the zero dac both thanks to Penchum's awesome reviews. I have one tiny problem though, with the zero acting as DAC and pre amp, the mkii is way too sensitive even using the lowest impedance. My headphone is a hd580 (300ohms). I can never go above 10/100 on the dial for my mkii and that is at the lowest gain available (funny thing, it came defaulted to on-on, low gain). Is there anything I can do? Lower the volume in foobar? Set zero to phone mode and lower the volume there? Thanks"

 I think my question would be better suited here since the LD does not sound that loud with any other source. I know Zero is also acting as a pre-amp, is that what is driving the volume up so much? Thanks.


----------



## azncookiecutter

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *st4r0c3an* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_"Hey. I also bought this amp and the zero dac both thanks to Penchum's awesome reviews. I have one tiny problem though, with the zero acting as DAC and pre amp, the mkii is way too sensitive even using the lowest impedance. My headphone is a hd580 (300ohms). I can never go above 10/100 on the dial for my mkii and that is at the lowest gain available (funny thing, it came defaulted to on-on, low gain). Is there anything I can do? Lower the volume in foobar? Set zero to phone mode and lower the volume there? Thanks"

 I think my question would be better suited here since the LD does not sound that loud with any other source. I know Zero is also acting as a pre-amp, is that what is driving the volume up so much? Thanks._

 

Have you tried using the Zero without the preamp turned on (DAC only)?


----------



## st4r0c3an

I've read the manual and have no idea how to do that. Do you mean put the Zero into phone mode and use the volume knob to lower the volume?

 Edit: Thought that would put the amp into amp mode and I would be double amping it with both the mkii and zero.


----------



## taso89

As a line-level preamp your Zero should not be "amplifying" the signal, just passing it on to the amp. Make sure the green LED is NOT on, and if it's still too loud then turn the volume knob all the way down.


----------



## st4r0c3an

The green LED is off and the volume knob is already at zero. Could this be the fault of my usb sound card? It is outputting the music though the optical port on the back.

 One more thing, is using replay-gain bad? It usually lowers most of my music by 7-10 db.

 Thanks for the help.


----------



## godluvsxs

Guys, MOON is out! Go order!


----------



## bundee1

can someone describe/ summarize the sound characteristics of the stock dac with stock opamps? (strengths and weakness, grainy smooth, sweet, etched , bassy etc) much appreciated.


----------



## dario

but the only difference between sun v1 and sun v2 is the capacitor?


----------



## dario

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_can someone describe/ summarize the sound characteristics of the stock dac with stock opamps? (strengths and weakness, grainy smooth, sweet, etched , bassy etc) much appreciated._

 

I think you can refer to first post review...


----------



## taso89

^

 No, all the audio-gd OPA's now have the capacitor addon, the Sun must have some more significant changes. It'd be interesting if someone wrote up a comparison between the old Sun and new Sun to see if some of the prevailing issues with the Sun have been addressed.


----------



## dario

the problem is that with all opa-shipment-mod-upgrade and ect, the zero would cost as much as more powerful product...

 Edit:
 Sun V1
http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/diy/OPA/OPA-S.GIF
 Sun V2
http://www.audio-gd.com/enweb/pro/di...es/SUN(V2).gif

 Can anyone explain what changes?


 Technical spec:
 Earth
 THD Less than 0.0005% (1KHz), voltage: ± 9 TO ± 25V, open-loop gain: 35 DB, current work: About 28 MA (single-Wan Fang), about 56 MA (two-Wan Fang). 
 Moon
 THD Less than 0.0008% (1KHz), voltage: ± 9 TO ± 25V, open-loop gain: 33 DB, current work: About 28 MA (single-Wan Fang), about 56 MA (two-Wan Fang). 
 Sun (v2 and v1 fon now have some spec)
 THD Less than 0.0003% (1KHz), voltage: ± 9 TO ± 25V, open-loop gain: 42 DB, current work: About 22 MA (single-Wan Fang), about 44 MA (two-Wan Fang).


----------



## bundee1

I need to know what its like in a speaker based system.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dario* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can anyone explain what changes?_

 

The links between the 4 transistors have been made. The outputs of J74 were tied to ground, from initial impressions.

 I don't find the schematic particularly easy to follow, but that is the only difference I've been able to see.

 ~Phewl


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Is anyone going to buy the new Moon and Sun?


----------



## bundee1

anyone want to respond as to how the stock dac sounds like in a speaker system? the first review only mentions the sound through headphones and since there are different parts in the signal it might sound different.


----------



## katanka

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyone want to respond as to how the stock dac sounds like in a speaker system? the first review only mentions the sound through headphones and since there are different parts in the signal it might sound different._

 

I have my zero hooked up to a yulong t-amp and some Monitor Audio bookshelf speakers, and it sounds very good to me.


----------



## VanQuish

How does the zero compare to E-MU 0404?


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dario* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the problem is that with all opa-shipment-mod-upgrade and ect, the zero would cost as much as more powerful product...

 Edit:
 Sun V1
http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/diy/OPA/OPA-S.GIF
 Sun V2
http://www.audio-gd.com/enweb/pro/di...es/SUN(V2).gif

 Can anyone explain what changes?


 Technical spec:
 Earth
 THD Less than 0.0005% (1KHz), voltage: ± 9 TO ± 25V, open-loop gain: 35 DB, current work: About 28 MA (single-Wan Fang), about 56 MA (two-Wan Fang). 
 Moon
 THD Less than 0.0008% (1KHz), voltage: ± 9 TO ± 25V, open-loop gain: 33 DB, current work: About 28 MA (single-Wan Fang), about 56 MA (two-Wan Fang). 
 Sun (v2 and v1 fon now have some spec)
 THD Less than 0.0003% (1KHz), voltage: ± 9 TO ± 25V, open-loop gain: 42 DB, current work: About 22 MA (single-Wan Fang), about 44 MA (two-Wan Fang)._

 

Hi Dario, all I can see that's changed is the input FETs have resistor changes from 1000 ohms to 2200 ohms across them and the voltage recommendation has changed accordingly from 9-25V to 12-20V. That's it, the input FETs are loaded differently. Oh, and there's less current draw. They might run a bit cooler and actually, so might the LT1364s downstream. Be interesting to see how they sound, eh?


----------



## Nike T

Hey guys, sorry for being ignorant, but what are these moon sun and earth things, I haven't been following this thread at all and I'm thinking of getting a zero. Is there anything else important that I missed through the thread?


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nike T* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys, sorry for being ignorant, but what are these moon sun and earth things, I haven't been following this thread at all and I'm thinking of getting a zero. Is there anything else important that I missed through the thread?_

 

In 679 pages?? Nah, couldn't be...


----------



## sennsay

What has been of great interest to me - and much joy, I have to add - is how fantastic the Zero with it's own amp sounds through the Senn 650s coming from my G4 iBook, now that everything is well run in. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I linked it up again last night and was simply stunned at how pure the sound is! The Zero's amp sounds really very different with the signal coming via the iBook than it does from the Yamaha CDX 1110s digital out via MIT coax. Even though I have found that the MIT coax is quite superior to the optical cable that came with the Zero, and despite the fact that there is a pretty standard USB cable running from the outlet to the USB to optical converter, the Zero's amp sounds like a completely different beast. How awesomely clean does it sound now! Yet from the the Yam, KHA sounds fabulous, open, fast, 3D, while the Zero's amp sounds a little closed, over warm and lacking detail in the bass, more 2D though pleasant enough on some music - good yet missing something. From the iBook ... holy moly! What a transformation, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There is less deep bass impact and sheer weight, yet the clarity is sublime on bass guitar, bowed bass, strings of all sorts and the percussion ... !! Wow. Vocals are simply lovely, even while I can hear the slight furriness from the optical cable that completely disappears with the MIT AVt 2 coax - fabulous cable BTW, a little expensive, yet so worth it. However, I am unable to use it from the iBook, so I'll stick with the optical via the USB cable plus adapter for now. 
 Is there a USB to coax adapter, anyone know? 
 For me now, the Zero has gone way up in my inestimable glory
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, value for money has skyrocketed
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 MY sincere condolences to those who are having problems, hang in there, you just might find it was worth the wait and the hassles. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 BTW, the LT1364s have now gone way up in the honours list too, they might not be OPA Earth but they sure are fine little critters!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyone want to respond as to how the stock dac sounds like in a speaker system? the first review only mentions the sound through headphones and since there are different parts in the signal it might sound different._

 

Well I can't tell you what the stock one is like but the modified Zero sounds great through my system (and it's no average setup).

 I don't think you'll get many other opinions since most use this for head fi/computer setups. I only tried mine last week in the main rig (out of curiosity) and was pleasantly surprised that it hung with both my ref CDP and the current SuperDAC project I'm working on. The HDAM in the dac section really wakes the Zero up. If there is an essential upgrade for the Zero the HDAM is it.

 Peete.


----------



## Currawong

It's a work in progress, but here is:





> [size=small]An Introduction to the ZERO DAC & Headphone amp.[/size]


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I can't tell you what the stock one is like but the modified Zero sounds great through my system (and it's no average setup).

 I don't think you'll get many other opinions since most use this for head fi/computer setups. I only tried mine last week in the main rig (out of curiosity) and was pleasantly surprised that it hung with both my ref CDP and the current SuperDAC project I'm working on. The HDAM in the dac section really wakes the Zero up. If there is an essential upgrade for the Zero the HDAM is it.

 Peete._

 

Hi PP, hope you're feeling a lot better mate. Yes, interesting, I always bought the Zero for my main system and the Corda 2Move for the puta. 
 I couldn't agree more on the HDAM in the Zero, it's in it's rightful home there. I have at last connected KHA up to the Zero this morning, signals coming from the puta and it sounds just wonderful. Both do. KHA is just more 3D and less 'white', if you know what I mean. In the bass, it's just a bit more timid than KHA - which is sounding just fantastic on TUSK at the moment!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The 2D aspect of the Zero's amp seems to be just what I get with that circuit, it's simple though works really well. I could live with it quite happily if needed. 
 One thing I have noticed on the HOT op-amps thing, the LT1364s run much cooler when they are actually being used, but very warm .... ok, HOT ... when not having any current draw on them. 
 The more I listen to the Zero with Earth installed, the more wonderful I realise it is.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 PS, I just bet that the Zero sounds terrific in your main system, PP!


----------



## fugimax

Hey guys,

 My LT1364CS8's showed up today ... but they're tiny! Like 1/4 the size of the opamps currently in there. Did I order the wrong thing??

 Full chip inscription is: 
 LT702
 1364

 and it's about the size of the nail on my pinky finger.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's a work in progress, but here is:






			[size=small]An Introduction to the ZERO DAC & Headphone amp.[/size]
		
Click to expand...

_ 
 

By gee, Currawong, good work mate!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi PP, hope you're feeling a lot better mate. Yes, interesting, I always bought the Zero for my main system and the Corda 2Move for the puta. 
 I couldn't agree more on the HDAM in the Zero, it's in it's rightful home there. I have at last connected KHA up to the Zero this morning, signals coming from the puta and it sounds just wonderful. Both do. KHA is just more 3D and less 'white', if you know what I mean. In the bass, it's just a bit more timid than KHA - which is sounding just fantastic on TUSK at the moment!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The 2D aspect of the Zero's amp seems to be just what I get with that circuit, it's simple though works really well. I could live with it quite happily if needed. 
 One thing I have noticed on the HOT op-amps thing, the LT1364s run much cooler when they are actually being used, but very warm .... ok, HOT ... when not having any current draw on them. 
 The more I listen to the Zero with Earth installed, the more wonderful I realise it is.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 PS, I just bet that the Zero sounds terrific in your main system, PP!_

 

Hi S-Man.

 Yeah I'm feeling a bit better, still sweating bullets a little, damn fever is still with me......now the whole house is down with the flu (Wife, kid....sigh), figures. I'm suffering a different ailment...lucky me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The remnants of Hurricane IKE came blasting through here Sun night...thought the trees were all going to snap in half, none did. Pretty wild downpour of rain in a short period of time (4 inches I think). 

 I didn't care though...had the cans on cranking some Montrose and a little T-Rex 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Retro night 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The FrankenZero surprised me with it abilities in the main rig. I may have to buy another Zero to modify if the SuperDAC doesn't displace Frank......(after the Super's been modified of course). Wouldn't that be something 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Your in for another treat when those 650's finally break in S-Man....oh yeah 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fugimax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys,

 My LT1364CS8's showed up today ... but they're tiny! Like 1/4 the size of the opamps currently in there. Did I order the wrong thing??

 Full chip inscription is: 
 LT702
 1364

 and it's about the size of the nail on my pinky finger._

 

Fujimax, they should be the LT1364CN8 models and be exactly the same size as the 5534s that are in the amp as standard. They are drop in replacements, you may have the surface mount ones, that need soldering in. Oops.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's a work in progress, but here is:






			[size=small]An Introduction to the ZERO DAC & Headphone amp.[/size]
		
Click to expand...

_ 
 



 Great Job CW !!!!!

 A very handy run down of all the current options, configs, and uses of the Zero.

 A big thumbs up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Kompei !!!! (probably spelled that wrong)

 Peete.


----------



## fugimax

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Fujimax, they should be the LT1364CN8 models and be exactly the same size as the 5534s that are in the amp as standard. They are drop in replacements, you may have the surface mount ones, that need soldering in. Oops. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Doh ... someone earlier in this thread said that the CS8's were the ones to order. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll just buy the CN8's from digikey then.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi S-Man.

 Yeah I'm feeling a bit better, still sweating bullets a little, damn fever is still with me......now the whole house is down with the flu (Wife, kid....sigh), figures. I'm suffering a different ailment...lucky me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The remnants of Hurricane IKE came blasting through here Sun night...thought the trees were all going to snap in half, none did. Pretty wild downpour of rain in a short period of time (4 inches I think). 

 I didn't care though...had the cans on cranking some Montrose and a little T-Rex 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Retro night 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The FrankenZero surprised me with it abilities in the main rig. I may have to buy another Zero to modify if the SuperDAC doesn't displace Frank......(after the Super's been modified of course). Wouldn't that be something 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Your in for another treat when those 650's finally break in S-Man....oh yeah 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Oh they are singing like canaries now and the S-Man cometh. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Don't mind at all if they blossom. Besides, there is FrankenZero to come, right? Oh mama .... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I have discovered that the hiss I was hearing only in the right channel (at half to full vol) is actually coming from the dig out of the Yam CDP, no sign of it via the puta, almost grave-like. Hmmm, looks like sumpin needs some attention.


----------



## Nike T

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's a work in progress, but here is:






			[size=small]An Introduction to the ZERO DAC & Headphone amp.[/size]
		
Click to expand...

_ 
 

thanks a lot for that, very nice, I understand so much more now, so I was wondering, does Lawrence sell this as far as you can go without soldering zero as a whole, or will I have to buy the upgraded version from Lawrence and then buy the HDAM parts?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Yeah my Frank is quieter than a grave in either setup of mine so something may be out of spec in the Yamaha (where though is anyone's guess).

 Fugimax.....make sure you order DIP package, not SMD. I'll double check the part number for you....I've ordered LT1364's before from Digi-Key....now to find those invoice sheets...(I have a half dozen of them..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
 Here we are........ LT1364CN8 as S-Man says. Digi-key should have a link on the page to show pin package for absolute proof.

 At 6.88 US a pop that's a fairly cheap mistake at least ...

 You could get some adapters in the future and make use of the smd chips for another project ? Maybe your CDP uses NE5532's ...you never know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nike T* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thanks a lot for that, very nice, I understand so much more now, so I was wondering, does Lawrence sell this as far as you can go without soldering zero as a whole, or will I have to buy the upgraded version from Lawrence and then buy the HDAM parts?_

 

Lawrence can sell you everything but his HDAM is a lot more money (even though it's made by audio-gd). So you might as well get the HDAM from audio-gd, if you plan on going that route. If you don't want to deal with more than one person LC can provide it all (HDAM + LT1364's, ALPs pot etc).

 Uh...I'm really starting to feel lousy again...so I'm done for tonight...


 Peete.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah my Frank is quieter than a grave in either setup so something may be out of spec in the Yamaha (where though is anyone's guess).

 Fugimax.....make sure you order DIP package, not SMD. I'll double check the part number for you....I've ordered LT1364's before from Digi-Key....now to find those invoice sheets...(I have a half dozen of them..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
 Here we are........ LT1364CN8 as S-Man says. Digi-key should have a link on the page to show pin package for absolute proof.

 At 6.88 US a pop that's a fairly cheap mistake at least ...

 You could get some adapters in the future and make use of the smd chips for another project ? Maybe your CDP uses NE5532's ...you never know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Mmm, I suspect a cap or two somewhere, as there is a slight HF warble with the RC hiss, but you gotta have plenty of vol to hear it. I'll get around to it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So much music to enjoy in the meantime!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Be great if there was an HDAM that could replace the 5534S/5532S op-amps, which have all pins in a line. I s'pose I could slot in the appropriate socket and attach the cable from an HDAM, though I really like the drop-in approach. So many of the Japanese amps and CDPs used the in-line op-amps, like the 5534S. Then I could upgrade the pre-amp in the Yamaha AX 900 as well. Now wouldn't that be something, methinks! It's already a very clean and neutral pre-amp, huge stage width but lacking in some depth, which the HDAMs have. Mmm ....


----------



## PyrotekNX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered mine from wcz3040 ( I think that's his name) and iasked him to test it before it ships but he shipped it already. anyone buy from him and get a good unit? I hope the stock unit or a quick op amp switch will improve the sound of my sb3._

 

I ordered mine from him (wsz0304) and my DAC has a blown channel. Worked fine at first, but during the burn in it went on me. Working with the seller now to get a replacement though.


----------



## glitch39

*i've lost track already ---

 when in preamp mode, are the 2 x LT1364's used or not? I think they are only used WHEN phones are plugged in.

 Is this correct or not? thanks*


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *glitch39* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*i've lost track already ---

 when in preamp mode, are the 2 x LT1364's used or not? I think they are only used WHEN phones are plugged in.

 Is this correct or not? thanks*_

 

Yes, that's correct. They are still ON when the pre-amp is used to another amp, just not in use until phones are plugged in to the Zero's amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Remember, the pre-amp has a three way action. When the green pre light is on, you can have phones in the Zero OR phones connected to another amp, using the Zero's vol control. The third way is with the pre light off, in which case the DAC is direct out to another pre-amp and in this mode you can just leave phones plugged into the Zero while using the DAC out. Make sense?


----------



## kwekeugene

When the Green Light is on it means that the opamp in the headphone board is in use.

 If no headphones is connected, the Zero functions as a source and pre-amp.

 If headphones connected, the Zero as DAC and headphone amp.

 If no green light, the Zero as DAC only.


----------



## KenZen

Greetings fellow Zero DAC'ers! I'm one of those who read Penchum's rave review on this wonder box and plonked my money on a unit immediately. It was money well spent because right off the bat, the Zero brought out details, better separation and sound stage. It's taking a long time to burn in though, due to my busy schedule and a baby turned toddler isn't helping either.
 I have to thank Penchum for sharing about this silver gem that has literally brought music to our ears for little moolahs! Reading through this thread has taken many late nights but all the tips and sharing is well worth it.
 I'm still on stock now. I've got the 627 (before the Zero landed) which I'm unsure if I'm even gonna use since my Earth and Sun has arrived and I'm already filling up a nice list of upgrades ala Pench, PP, AP and others. Nice work guys!


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Nice to hear Zen what kind of headphones do you use with the Zero or are you using just a speaker system?


----------



## KenZen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyone want to respond as to how the stock dac sounds like in a speaker system? the first review only mentions the sound through headphones and since there are different parts in the signal it might sound different._

 

It pretty much depends on your source. I've got it hooked up to my entry level DVD player and through my Audiolab 8000A, i can immediately hear a difference. It was like a veil was removed and everything sounded more detailed with better separation and sound stage! I didn't realise my DVD was that bad musically till the Zero came in. And I'm still running on stock for now so it's a mighty upgrade for not much money, IMO. I wish I can borrow a dedicated CDP to do an AB comparison but haven't got the time for now. I do know someone who took a Zero with the AP627 upgrade to test on the Marantz CD6002 and there was enough improvement for him to upgrade from his 5001.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KenZen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Greetings fellow Zero DAC'ers! I'm one of those who read Penchum's rave review on this wonder box and plonked my money on a unit immediately. It was money well spent because right off the bat, the Zero brought out details, better separation and sound stage. It's taking a long time to burn in though, due to my busy schedule and a baby turned toddler isn't helping either.
 I have to thank Penchum for sharing about this silver gem that has literally brought music to our ears for little moolahs! Reading through this thread has taken many late nights but all the tips and sharing is well worth it.
 I'm still on stock now. I've got the 627 (before the Zero landed) which I'm unsure if I'm even gonna use since my Earth and Sun has arrived and I'm already filling up a nice list of upgrades ala Pench, PP, AP and others. Nice work guys! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hey, good onya, KenZen, the Zero certainly is a corker! I am listening to Willie Nelson and Wynton Marsalis right at this moment through the Zero DAC and out to my 'Earthed' KHA amp with fairly new 650s and it sounds just soooo good. Mind you, the Zero's amp is pretty damn good with the LT1364s in it too. 
 Ditto on the thanks to the guys, they've brought a lot of joy to my life too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I actually rather enjoyed the stock DAC, sweet. The Earth turns it into something else again! Zero owners club is swell-ing


----------



## gavszero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pistolette* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The SUN and EARTH both sound very bad. Try them for a week, then go back to a great, very musical opamp, like the LT1122. You will hear what I mean...

 Although there are times when two bad things make a good thing..._

 


 The nuisence now pistolette is back , it will be deleted soon and we can enjoy this forum again .. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yesterday it said the OPA-SUN sounded great ...


----------



## glitch39

PP - 
 so using it as a pre-amp (green light on, no phones), I do not get the benefit of the HDAM on the headamp section then?


----------



## KenZen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice to hear Zen what kind of headphones do you use with the Zero or are you using just a speaker system?_

 

I have an old set of low end Senn 380 but have been listening to the Zero via speakers so far. I've been meaning to get a new set after buying the Zero and this forum is a really dangerous place... pocket wise... so I'm taking it one step at a time, enjoying my stock Zero for now. I must say that even on stock, it is so much more revealing. So much so that I can't stand listening to bad recordings because they're that obvious. Bad for pocket again.


----------



## KenZen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *glitch39* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PP - 
 so using it as a pre-amp (green light on, no phones), I do not get the benefit of the HDAM on the headamp section then?_

 

Actually, you would becoz the output signal still passes through the headamp HDAM. The difference is whether you use the phones output or RCA output. Both will be controlled by the volume.

 I've made a comparison between direct and pre-amp by setting the volume as close as possible and switch between the two. Direct is that bit more detailed. I'm sure the LT1364 would narrow the difference but I don't have any to try that out, yet.


----------



## bundee1

what kind of speakers are you using and what kind of amp ken?


----------



## isao2k8

Can anyone compare ZERO's SQ with Dr.DAC's or Dr.DAC2's?


----------



## dacavalcante

Hi PP, I just got today my 4 HDAMs........
 I'm going to put Earth on DAC section...
 What about the mod to solve the power issue with the other 2 modules on the amp section ? Any news ?

 I just took the 22uf caps from rca output and phone amp.... there's a increase on high clarity frequency by doing that... nice!




 Diego.........

 ............................................ some minutes later.....
 Well I just plugged earth and can say.... it's much better then 627 right out of the box.....
 When I tested lm4562, differences to 627 were small, more on soundstage then other thing....
 But difference between earth and 627 is bigger then only soundstage......
 Instruments sounds more real..... bass goes a little lower.......

 here the question, do I need to plug the earth from Earth.... LoL...

 Diego (again)


----------



## Nike T

Are there any cheap solutions to get from usb to digital to input into the amp? Is this any good, or will it be a weak link, Xitel MD-Port DG2 USB optical fibre sound blaster - eBay (item 110257056094 end time Sep-25-08 07:04:31 PDT) What about TBAAM, it has optical out right? Would that be good?


----------



## bundee1

this ones for currawong or anyone who's bought a unit from wsz0304; do wsz0304 units "upgrade" include the alps pot?


----------



## Nedman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_this ones for currawong or anyone who's bought a unit from wsz0304; do wsz0304 units "upgrade" include the alps pot?_

 

Mine only included the OPA627 on a duel adaptor [top and bottom]. But I think I was one of the first from Head-Fi to purchase one from him.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi PP, I just got today my 4 HDAMs........
 I'm going to put Earth on DAC section...
 What about the mod to solve the power issue with the other 2 modules on the amp section ? Any news ?

 I just took the 22uf caps from rca output and phone amp.... there's a increase on high clarity frequency by doing that... nice!




 Diego.........

 ............................................ some minutes later.....
 Well I just plugged earth and can say.... it's much better then 627 right out of the box.....
 When I tested lm4562, differences to 627 were small, more on soundstage then other thing....
 But difference between earth and 627 is bigger then only soundstage......
 Instruments sounds more real..... bass goes a little lower.......

 here the question, do I need to plug the earth from Earth.... LoL...

 Diego (again)_

 

Hi Diego,

 That's cool 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 your in for an aural treat with the HDAM. Don't bother with the extra ground wire unless you are getting hum from plugging the HDAM in. If you rally want to connect it, the chassis/pcb hold down bolt closest to the HDAM socket is fine to use, or if you want to get fancy, run an extension wire from the HDAM ground to the RCA jack ground (audio ground). That's the center pin of the 3 of the RCA jack module (if you haven't swapped out the stock jacks for better stuff already).

 I haven't received my parts yet to try the 3 HDAM config. I have been really ill the last 5 1/2 days. So that's kept me from doing a lot of things including answering email, checking the forum etc...hopefully I'll be back up to speed by next Monday.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_this ones for currawong or anyone who's bought a unit from wsz0304; do wsz0304 units "upgrade" include the alps pot?_

 

Hi Bundee1,

 AFAIK Lawrence is the only one that has this part for sale, it's a NOS part and hard to source. 

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nike T* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are there any cheap solutions to get from usb to digital to input into the amp? Is this any good, or will it be a weak link, Xitel MD-Port DG2 USB optical fibre sound blaster - eBay (item 110257056094 end time Sep-25-08 07:04:31 PDT) What about TBAAM, it has optical out right? Would that be good?_

 

Yup 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Diego,

 That's cool 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 your in for an aural treat with the HDAM. Don't bother with the extra ground wire unless you are getting hum from plugging the HDAM in. If you rally want to connect it, the chassis/pcb hold down bolt closest to the HDAM socket is fine to use, or if you want to get fancy, run an extension wire from the HDAM ground to the RCA jack ground (audio ground). That's the center pin of the 3 of the RCA jack module (if you haven't swapped out the stock jacks for better stuff already).

 I haven't received my parts yet to try the 3 HDAM config. I have been really ill the last 5 1/2 days. So that's kept me from doing a lot of things including answering email, checking the forum etc...hopefully I'll be back up to speed by next Monday.

 Peete._

 

Well, I'm not getting any Hum, so I think I'll tape it and leave it just as it is.
 I'm keeping stock RCA ATM, I still don't have a nice speaker set that worth it.

 Let me know when you got somenthing abou the 3 HDAM config... but anyway... do you think it's going to be a cheap solution or it's better to let it as it is and save money for a mk3 ?

 I hope you are at speed of light on monday


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Diego,

 I'd still get the MK III...the reg board and transformer is 130US, hardly practical for the Zero but I wanted to try it to see if it gave an across the board SQ boost while solving the 3 HDAM power draw issue.

 Peete.

 PS About Monday....I hope so too


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Diego,

 I'd still get the MK III...the reg board and transformer is 130US, hardly practical for the Zero but I wanted to try it to see if it gave an across the board SQ boost while solving the 3 HDAM power draw issue.

 Peete.

 PS About Monday....I hope so too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hummm, I guess I have 3 spares HDAM modules then.... anyone willing to buy them !?


----------



## younglee200

I've been wanting to buy this for a while, and I rather not order from a not-so-reliable source, like the ebay.

 Is there anywhere I would be able to purchase this from the US? I read Currawong's blog regarding information on this (as well as about 30 pages of this thread) but wasn't able to find information on this.

 Thanks in advance


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Only way that I know of that you could purchase a Zero from the us is from the Sales forum here on head-fi. Other than that I don't know of any other place.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *isao2k8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can anyone compare ZERO's SQ with Dr.DAC's or Dr.DAC2's?_

 

Not unless I visit Tokyo again soon. 

 I just found this picture of the Dr.DAC board, it has 3 opamps like the Zero. Though because it's small it'd need a bigger case if you wanted to put HDAMs in, you could at least opamp roll it. Interesting that the pic shows LM4562s in it, obviously not the default.

 I'd say, choose the Zero unless you want the model with USB. The last place I saw selling them in Japan wanted 60,000 yen or something crazy for one (a headphone shop in Akihabara), way more than a Zero and, not to mention, there's space for a HDAM in the Zero.


----------



## dario

But there is any real adavantage to put a cap on the hdam?
 And what I must buy if I want try?


 And finally I read onother mod is to take off some cap near the rca, are this?
 Are the circled two here or there are others?


----------



## Currawong

I just removed the 22uF caps next to the RCA jacks - definitely an improvement. Suddenly a bit of dullness has gone.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just removed the 22uF caps next to the RCA jacks - definitely an improvement. Suddenly a bit of dullness has gone._

 

So, when the dullness is gone, is the sound more harsh?


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, when the dullness is gone, is the sound more harsh?_

 

I don't think my set-up sounds harsh at all. I feel that sound is less "muffled" than it was before. Just slightly.


----------



## gavszero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't think my set-up sounds harsh at all. I feel that sound is less "muffled" than it was before. Just slightly._

 

The removal of the 22uF caps at the RCA's , that won't make it brighter will it ? Does it give the sound more detail ?

 Thanks,
 Gavin ...


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gavszero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The removal of the 22uF caps at the RCA's , that won't make it brighter will it ? Does it give the sound more detail ?

 Thanks,
 Gavin ..._

 

I'd say there's a little more detail. I recall someone else saying the sound was brighter after the cap removal, but at least with my set-up I don't feel that. I'm getting the impression bass is a bit tighter as well.

 I'm a little wary that, since I can't test back and forth, I'm not 100% sure how much I'm actually hearing in this change. However, some music on my regular listening rotation that I am bored of listening to, suddenly I'm not any longer. At the moment, I'm currently enjoying Sara K to the point I'm getting tired of female vocals. After removing those caps, I'm not tired any more, and even went on to listen to some Sade, who I'm completely tired of, something that could only have happened if there'd been a significant improvement in SQ. Previously only putting in the HDAM had anything like that effect.


----------



## Olev

Shouldn't 22p that's written on the capacitor mean 22 PICOfarads. That is only 0.000022uF. Let's try to be correct here, we are obsessed by audio but recent posts show utter mess with basic physics/electronics (people messing up parallel and serial capacitance etc).


----------



## dario

But this mod consist in the removal of the circled elements in the photo that I posted?

 For who wrote the "FAQ" Lawrence take 20$ for pot mod, it's not "free" in the Head-fi deal


----------



## viscosity

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dario* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But this mod consist in the removal of the circled elements in the photo that I posted?

 For who wrote the "FAQ" Lawrence take 20$ for pot mod, it's not "free" in the Head-fi deal
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 yeah. just clip them. If you look, there are 2 others on the headamp aswell, just make sure they are the ceramic ones as show in the picture.


----------



## viscosity

another mod you can do if you dont mind soldering is replace the 4 caps shown here 





 something like the NICHICON MUSE KZ would be an improvement..

 these are all listed here


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd say there's a little more detail. I recall someone else saying the sound was brighter after the cap removal, but at least with my set-up I don't feel that. I'm getting the impression bass is a bit tighter as well.

 I'm a little wary that, since I can't test back and forth, I'm not 100% sure how much I'm actually hearing in this change. snip_

 

To be sure, it is a very subtle change. Don't expect night and day. Also, no doubt the effect will depend on your headphones/speakers. Being a former Grado-head who's moved on to Senn, I find anything to bring out the highs and upper-mids helps a bit, but with brighter headphones you may not like what happens. But again, it is subtle.


----------



## dario

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *viscosity* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yeah. just clip them. If you look, there are 2 others on the headamp aswell, just make sure they are the ceramic ones as show in the picture._

 

Ok, but why they are there if they are useless?
 And the others 2 in the head amp section are the circled in the image?



 Than 4 total capacitor to clip-remove, right?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *viscosity* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_another mod you can do if you dont mind soldering is replace the 4 caps shown here _

 

Yes, I saw all the mods on that site, and the cap mod will be done by Lawrence becouse he will open it for pot mode and opamp upgrade, and then can also easily change them...




 But what are the best cap for the hdam?
 Audio-gd uses some Evox Mmx but I don't know specs..


----------



## viscosity

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dario* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, but why they are there if they are useless?_

 

lampizator_DIY snip it

 that is all correct. those are the ones on the headamp and there are 4 in all


----------



## viscosity

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dario* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But what are the best cap for the hdam?
 Audio-gd uses some Evox Mmx but I don't know specs.._

 

well im gonna be using these..
 but they're HUGE


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dario* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, but why they are there if they are useless?
 And the others 2 in the head amp section are the circled in the image?



 Than 4 total capacitor to clip-remove, right?



 Yes, I saw all the mods on that site, and the cap mod will be done by Lawrence becouse he will open it for pot mode and opamp upgrade, and then can also easily change them...




 But what are the best cap for the hdam?
 Audio-gd uses some Evox Mmx but I don't know specs.._

 


 That's the other 2 caps..... I did that last night....
 What I found was highs with more detailed.... don't sound harsh, instead, more pleasing...

 Diego


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Olev* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Shouldn't 22p that's written on the capacitor mean 22 PICOfarads. That is only 0.000022uF. Let's try to be correct here, we are obsessed by audio but recent posts show utter mess with basic physics/electronics (people messing up parallel and serial capacitance etc)._

 


 Actually Olev, they are 220 pf caps that are installed ( I asked LC a while back)...but it doesn't matter what value they are since they are removed from the circuit.

 As for the second statement...take it up with Burson Audio since it's their idea and tweak.


 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's the other 2 caps..... I did that last night....
 What I found was highs with more detailed.... don't sound harsh, instead, more pleasing...

 Diego_

 

Interesting...looks like a job for the side cutters 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

^The ones in the headphone amp? I posted about them xxx pages ago... they're worth removing. Same principle and gains as snipping the ones near the RCA sockets, but obviously these directly affect the headphone amplifier stage 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## dario

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *viscosity* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well im gonna be using these..
 but they're HUGE_

 

But if I want buy the cap in a "conventional shop" waht I must ask and how much of them I need (audio-gd put a cap on every hdam)?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^The ones in the headphone amp? I posted about them xxx pages ago... they're worth removing. Same principle and gains as snipping the ones near the RCA sockets, but obviously these directly affect the headphone amplifier stage 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.

 ~Phewl._

 

It's ok clip only one of the two "spin" of the cap and than not remove completely the cap?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^The ones in the headphone amp? I posted about them xxx pages ago... they're worth removing. Same principle and gains as snipping the ones near the RCA sockets, but obviously these directly affect the headphone amplifier stage 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl._

 

Good on ya AP !!!.....Lampizators explanation of these caps and the removal of them is a great read. 

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Hi Dario,


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dario* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But if I want buy the cap in a "conventional shop" waht I must ask and how much of them I need (audio-gd put a cap on every hdam)?



 It's ok clip only one of the two "spin" of the cap and than not remove completely the cap?_

 

You only need 1 cap and it's value should be 1 uf. Any voltage above 50V DC rating is fine. The higher the voltage the bigger the cap generally speaking. A nice quality cap needn't be expensive. 2 - 5 dollars is plenty for that purpose. It's surprising what 5 dollars US will buy from a good parts store these days considering the cost of everything else audio related......that's the major charm of DIY to myself personally.

 Any method is fine, cut one leg and leave it if you want, or cut both it makes no difference.

 Hope that helps. 

 Peete.


----------



## dario

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Dario,

 You only need 1 cap and it's value should be 1 uf. Any voltage above 50V DC rating is fine. The higher the voltage the bigger the cap generally speaking. A nice quality cap needn't be expensive. 2 - 5 dollars is plenty for that purpose. It's surprising what 5 dollars US will buy from a good parts store these days considering the cost of everything else audio related......that's the major charm of DIY to myself personally._

 

Ok thanks Peete, I must connect the cap as in the audio-gd's photo?

  Quote:


 Any method is fine, cut one leg and leave it if you want, or cut both it makes no difference.

 Hope that helps. 

 Peete. 
 

Thanks, you are ever really clear and helpful.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Dario which tweak do you want to accomplish ? The one I outlined is the BA tweak that causes so much consternation to some, while the other uses poly caps connected completely differently to the HDAM and are of smaller value (.63uf).

 BA Tweak is 1 uf cap >50V connected in parallel to pins 4 and 8 (v- and V+).

 audio-gd mod is .63uf ?V caps connected from V- (pin 4) to ground, then a second poly cap of the same value connected to V+ (pin 8) to ground. 

 Two completely different tweaks.

 Peete.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^The ones in the headphone amp? I posted about them xxx pages ago... they're worth removing. Same principle and gains as snipping the ones near the RCA sockets, but obviously these directly affect the headphone amplifier stage 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl._

 

Oh
 Thanks for the tip by the way, Phewl.... I used it to cut mine....


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting...looks like a job for the side cutters 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Yeah, I really did not wanted to remove my zero DAC before big mods time... so I just cut one "leg" of all 4 of them.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 Diego


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^The ones in the headphone amp? I posted about them xxx pages ago... they're worth removing. Same principle and gains as snipping the ones near the RCA sockets, but obviously these directly affect the headphone amplifier stage 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl._

 

Yes, I agree in general, Phewl, though often those little caps around the op-amps are there for stability usually. Personally, I would replace them with some polystyrenes instead, if you (or I) can find any of that value. Certainly the output ones can be tossed and I have, no probs there. I guess if you snip the head amp ones and there is no loss or instability then it's gain all round most likely.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good on ya AP !!!.....Lampizators explanation of these caps and the removal of them is a great read. 

 Peete._

 

Yep, ditto PP, a great read. Just been there and printed off the info, excellent work on the links to the CDP groupings too, very interesting. Not really that keen to Lampizator my Zero but it would be a great project with a second Zero.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep, ditto PP, a great read. Just been there and printed off the info, excellent work on the links to the CDP groupings too, very interesting. Not really that keen to Lampizator my Zero but it would be a great project with a second Zero. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'd be interested in seeing a 6H30Pi gold pin used if possible or go another route entirely like an octal. Check his CDP with the big octals in it.....I bet it sounds out of this world.

 The reg/transformer kit (PS1) for the Zero from Welborn Labs showed up today. I have to assemble and solder the whole thing before I can test it on the HDAMs...should be a cool weekend project. I'll have to borrow the Earth HDAMs from the DIY DAC to test in the Frankie 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The SUNS can sit this one out.

 The Reg board is pretty big so it'll need it's own chassis for sure. I have this one picked out for it and the 2 transformers. It's a fairly close size match to the Zero and should look good sitting beside or under Frankie 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Price is right at 40US. 











 Cheers S-Man 

 Peete.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd be interested in seeing a 6H30Pi gold pin used if possible or go another route entirely like an octal. Check his CDP with the big octals in it.....I bet it sounds out of this world.

 The reg/transformer kit (PS1) for the Zero from Welborn Labs showed up today. I have to assemble and solder the whole thing before I can test it on the HDAMs...should be a cool weekend project. I'll have to borrow the Earth HDAMs from the DIY DAC to test in the Frankie 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The SUNS can sit this one out.

 The Reg board is pretty big so it'll need it's own chassis for sure. I have this one picked out for it and the 2 transformers. It's a fairly close size match to the Zero and should look good sitting beside or under Frankie 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Price is right at 40US. 











 Cheers S-Man 

 Peete._

 

I can't wait to see that


----------



## JamesL

$40 from where?
 Last time I quoted a shipping price from China, it was $145 for a full-size aluminum chassis. Its a shame though, as he was offering selective-milling from the factory at a good price.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd be interested in seeing a 6H30Pi gold pin used if possible or go another route entirely like an octal. Check his CDP with the big octals in it.....I bet it sounds out of this world.

 The reg/transformer kit (PS1) for the Zero from Welborn Labs showed up today. I have to assemble and solder the whole thing before I can test it on the HDAMs...should be a cool weekend project. I'll have to borrow the Earth HDAMs from the DIY DAC to test in the Frankie 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The SUNS can sit this one out.

 The Reg board is pretty big so it'll need it's own chassis for sure. I have this one picked out for it and the 2 transformers. It's a fairly close size match to the Zero and should look good sitting beside or under Frankie 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Price is right at 40US. 











 Cheers S-Man 

 Peete._

 

 Wow, nice case PP! Ought to be a terrific weekend project.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 That should look smashing together with the Zero! I've just ordered a small load of various Nichicon Muse caps off ebay so I will have some soldering to do soon! Bought a lovely little 8W portable soldering iron last week, with a nice fine tip that will be perfect for the job. Worked well on my test subjects! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Zero sounds fantastic with KHA from the puta, so open and clean, it's making my YAM dig out sound a little closed in and less detailed, which shocked the hell out of me when I went back to it this morning! Did NOT expect that. Yam a little fuller on vox though, which is actually nice.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JamesL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_$40 from where?
 Last time I quoted a shipping price from China, it was $145 for a full-size aluminum chassis. Its a shame though, as he was offering selective-milling from the factory at a good price._

 

Heres the link

http://www.vt4c.com/shop/program/mai...d=1&group_id=2

 It's not full size and is cheap steel with an aluminum faceplate. I have no idea what the shipping cost is but I don't think it will be much more than 20US. I emailed them a few hours ago to find out shipping cost for this to N America. No reply yet.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, nice case PP! Ought to be a terrific weekend project.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 That should look smashing together with the Zero! I've just ordered a small load of various Nichicon Muse caps off ebay so I will have some soldering to do soon! Bought a lovely little 8W portable soldering iron last week, with a nice fine tip that will be perfect for the job. Worked well on my test subjects! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Zero sounds fantastic with KHA from the puta, so open and clean, it's making my YAM dig out sound a little closed in and less detailed, which shocked the hell out of me when I went back to it this morning! Did NOT expect that. Yam a little fuller on vox though, which is actually nice. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Very few stand alone transports can equal a computer's perfect output IMHO. I actually prefer the comp's output over my ref CDP, although the output section of that CDP is amazing. Now If I could somehow put the two together that would be really something...


 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can't wait to see that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Thanks Diego, I agree it should be fun if everything works like it's supposed to 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## viscosity

anyone here thinking of trying the new OPA-moon or SUNrev2?

 especially interested in OPA-moon, supposed to mimic a more 'tubular' sound


----------



## Doorknob

Currently I have the Zero with the Earth in the DAC and LT1364 in the headphone amp section and I listen to this with A900. It's good, but nothing great.

 So I've decided to get future upgrades that I'd want. Between these would be the HD650 and one of the Little Dot amps. The question is which I should buy first and get the other equipment later (Far later, as in 6-12 months).

 I haven't read any of the Little Dot reviews yet, but since I've never owned any tube amps (or any amps besides Zero) I'd like to keep the budget under $200 for such an amp to go along with the Zero. Do note that if I choose this first, my A900's are a low 40 impedence can.

 If I go with the HD650 first, will it sound great right off the Zero? Or will it require another amp to make it sound much better?

 Basically what I'm asking for is which equipment I buy will have the most bang for the buck ratio. I would seriously love to hear some great midrange, something which I feel my A900's lack. The EQ in Foobar is pretty terrible, usually when adjusting it gives the sound more distortion and less air, so I tend to avoid that. I listen mainly to many different genres of musics and fine with anything except for vocals.

 I really want to go electrostats but know nothing about them. Heard they need a special amp or something to go along with it though, so working it with Zero is probably a no go.


----------



## dario

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dario which tweak do you want to accomplish ? The one I outlined is the BA tweak that causes so much consternation to some, while the other uses poly caps connected completely differently to the HDAM and are of smaller value (.63uf).

 BA Tweak is 1 uf cap >50V connected in parallel to pins 4 and 8 (v- and V+).

 audio-gd mod is .63uf ?V caps connected from V- (pin 4) to ground, then a second poly cap of the same value connected to V+ (pin 8) to ground. 

 Two completely different tweaks.

 Peete._

 

Thanks Peete, I will decide what to do, when I will have the zero (I hope in the next days Lawrence will ship it)...

 But you can hear differences for every "cap mod" on the hdam?


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Doorknob* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Currently I have the Zero with the Earth in the DAC and LT1364 in the headphone amp section and I listen to this with A900. It's good, but nothing great.

 So I've decided to get future upgrades that I'd want. Between these would be the HD650 and one of the Little Dot amps. The question is which I should buy first and get the other equipment later (Far later, as in 6-12 months).

 I haven't read any of the Little Dot reviews yet, but since I've never owned any tube amps (or any amps besides Zero) I'd like to keep the budget under $200 for such an amp to go along with the Zero. Do note that if I choose this first, my A900's are a low 40 impedence can.

 If I go with the HD650 first, will it sound great right off the Zero? Or will it require another amp to make it sound much better?

 Basically what I'm asking for is which equipment I buy will have the most bang for the buck ratio. I would seriously love to hear some great midrange, something which I feel my A900's lack. The EQ in Foobar is pretty terrible, usually when adjusting it gives the sound more distortion and less air, so I tend to avoid that. I listen mainly to many different genres of musics and fine with anything except for vocals.

 I really want to go electrostats but know nothing about them. Heard they need a special amp or something to go along with it though, so working it with Zero is probably a no go._

 

 Hey there, Doorknob, in my experience the 650s are of such quality that not only do they sound good with the Zero's amp, a higher quality external amp will bring even more with the same cans, in other words you can expand into them. I use my 650s with the Zero, the Corda 2Move via the Zeros DAC as well as my KHA (kit amp) and they sound really good to great with all of them. I'm quite impressed now with the 650s via the Zero's amp, a tad 2D compared with KHA and the 2Move, but fun all the same.
 I am not familiar with Foobar, as I use iTunes from an iBook, all I know is that you need to turn all the sound adjustments off, whatever you use, for purest sound. All IMO, of course. 
 I use to use some older Senns that simply didn't provide me with the level of enjoyment I wanted from anything other than KHA - for the most part. I can use now the 650s with any of the amps I have with excellent results.
 Since you already have the Zero with HDAM Earth + 1364s, I can tell you the 650s do sound really good with that combo. IMHO, I would go the 650s and upgrade the amp later. I don't know the A900s and how they might go with LD 1+, though the LD is designed to run best with lower impedance cans. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 As far as I'm aware, you could run the Stax amp from the DAC of the Zero. They have an energizer/amp but still need an input from a CDP or a DAC or a puta. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Happy choosing and I hope I haven't confused you.


----------



## dario

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Prickley Pete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dear Dario,


 Did you know that the Italian brand Lector uses the LT1122 for the output stage of their digital players? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Folks, beside the LT1122, try the similar AD845 too. These of the countless I've tried have been the most natural sounding opamps, together with the (more picky, not usable in the Zero) LT1028, LT1115._

 

Andrea you have problems.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dario* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Andrea you have problems._

 

I have to agree.


----------



## Currawong

Can I ask all you guys a favour? For the FAQ, I'd like to collect as many pictures as I can of the inside and outside of the Zero. If people could email them to me at [my head-fi username] AT gmail.com I'd really appreciate it. I have some pictures myself, but I took them after I removed the 220p caps and I'd like to fix up a couple of more "original" pictures.

 Thanks in advance people.


----------



## bnsbhat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *direcow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey penchum> Have you tried the OPA637 in the amp section? It seems that is what Lawrence is suggesting..._

 

Came across this forum while searching for solution for an issue I have. I love old and slow music (60s and seventies, do not fancy loud music). Prefer listening to floor standing speakers powered through an amplifier. I have bought a Auzentech X-plosion Cinema sound card with swappable Opamps. 
 Link:

Auzentech, Inc. Sound Cards. Audio You Can Believe In. World First soundcards for Music, HTPC, and Gaming.


 Have bought OPA627AU dual opamp as upgrade to front speakers.

 My question is, is it a good idea to upgrade Opamp for center/woofer section to dual OPA637au. This would power a separate 150w stand alone Powered sub-woofer.

 Please, I am not a techie type of guy. Reply in simple english please!

 Thanks for your time in advance


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bnsbhat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Came across this forum while searching for solution for an issue I have. I love old and slow music (60s and seventies, do not fancy loud music). Prefer listening to floor standing speakers powered through an amplifier. I have bought a Auzentech X-plosion Cinema sound card with swappable Opamps. 
 Link:

Auzentech, Inc. Sound Cards. Audio You Can Believe In. World First soundcards for Music, HTPC, and Gaming.


 Have bought OPA627AU dual opamp as upgrade to front speakers.

 My question is, is it a good idea to upgrade Opamp for center/woofer section to dual OPA637au. This would power a separate 150w stand alone Powered sub-woofer.

 Please, I am not a techie type of guy. Reply in simple english please!

 Thanks for your time in advance_

 

You need to start a new thread on this. What works in the Zero might not work well on your sound card.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dario* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Peete, I will decide what to do, when I will have the zero (I hope in the next days Lawrence will ship it)...

 But you can hear differences for every "cap mod" on the hdam?_

 

Just the Burson Audio cap tweak and yes it did make a difference...all others MMV. 

 Peete.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just the Burson Audio cap tweak and yes it did make a difference...all others MMV. 

 Peete._

 

what kind of difference peete ?

 Earth has about 37 hours now... I really think a little more bass impact could be of use.... does this mod helps with it ? Or there is any other mod devoted to this aspect ?


 Diego


----------



## Sganzerla

Now I'm one more Zero DAC owner. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It happened to reach my house without the expensive taxes our government applies (60%) and it is working flawless. I was worried about the problems two members had some days ago but I had better lucky.

 The differences I'm hearing now are the more natural sound and wider soundstage.

 Hope it gets even better after burn in.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_what kind of difference peete ?

 Earth has about 37 hours now... I really think a little more bass impact could be of use.... does this mod helps with it ? Or there is any other mod devoted to this aspect ?


 Diego_

 

Hi Diego,

 The kit addresses all aspects of the HDAM equipped Zero...from soup to nuts.

 Do a search for HDAM cap tweak...there are lots of posts that will answer the SQ question, and some that won't.


 Just finished assembly of the PS1 Reg board, waiting on some info about the transformer. 

 Peete.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Diego,

 The kit addresses all aspects of the HDAM equipped Zero...from soup to nuts.

 Do a search for HDAM cap tweak...there are lots of posts that will answer the SQ question, and some that won't.


 Just finished assembly of the PS1 Reg board, waiting on some info about the transformer. 

 Peete._

 

Hi PP, I'll do that search..... and wait results on the reg board......
 Well... I have to say I just plugged my 2 SUNS, so I'm running 3 HDAM config right now..... bass doesn't seems to have suffered that much right now, does the problem only arises later ?

 - Also do you think 3 HDAMs config can represent any danger to zero psu as it's overloading it ? Because I'm really think to keep this setup.... sound definition is clearly better with suns.....

 Welll you do got the FrankenZero... but I got the zETro...... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 this red.... shiny blue.... green and shiny green LED combination is so psychedelic that I'm starting to trip just looking at it... LoL

 Diego


----------



## dario

Diego you use earth+2sun?
 I have 3 sun + 1 earth, when I will have the zero I will try two two combination, it's good that with hd 650 the 3 hdam configuration seems to be ok, I have the hd-650, the new version...


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dario* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Diego you use earth+2sun?
 I have 3 sun + 1 earth, when I will have the zero I will try two two combination, it's good that with hd 650 the 3 hdam configuration seems to be ok, I have the hd-650, the new version..._

 

Yes, eart/2xsuns.... I also have a spare earth here, so I could try sun/2xearths....

 I really can't tell you if it's ok, because the others guy are also using 650 and do noticed some bass loss....
 I'm not a gold eared guy..... so I'll still have to go forth and back to lt1364 to have some clear conclusions....

 I realized that some heatsinks of zero got really more hot then with only one hdam....


 Diego


----------



## dario

I understand, I think I will hear the 3 hdam if will sound better than 1 hdam + 2xlt1364 I will leave them in the zero otherwise I will put the standard lt1364,
 but it's quite clear the use of the hdam instead of the lt1364 in the amp section in your opinion?

 P.s I think I will put a fan (from images I think one or two 6x6 pc fan) on the top, near the grill, I think will help really much the zero..


----------



## bundee1

sganzerla who did you order your zero from?


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dario* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I understand, I think I will hear the 3 hdam if will sound better than 1 hdam + 2xlt1364 I will leave them in the zero otherwise I will put the standard lt1364,
 but it's quite clear the use of the hdam instead of the lt1364 in the amp section in your opinion?

 P.s I think I will put a fan (from images I think one or two 6x6 pc fan) on the top, near the grill, I think will help really much the zero.._

 

I think it's a little early to post my impressions, as earth have as little as 46hours right now and SUNs were just pluged in...........

 But I'll make some tests tonight and let yuo know if I "saw" sometinh at his stage....

 Diego


----------



## Sganzerla

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sganzerla who did you order your zero from?_

 

 I ordered direct from Chan. If you can't find his e-mail trough this topic, send me an PM. I'm worried about posting here (because of the bots, etc...).


----------



## DCT

I have a ZERO metal case, Zero Toroidal transformer, Zero amplifier for sale 
 you can buy them and connect it to this kit (UPGRADED 24bit/192KHz DAC KIT,TOROID TRAN,HIEND COMPONE ) from lawrence without the transformer and create your own Dac. i think he'll sell it without the transformer and show you how to connect. 

 Sorry for posting this up here guys


----------



## Currawong

I'm wondering if, since I don't use the HP amp section of the Zero, if it'd be worth disconnecting it altogether. 

 After removing those 220pf caps (yes, my last post I erred on the value of them) trying the HP amp section of the zero again I now have a buzz. I moved a bunch of things around my desk today and connected the earth wire of the HDAM to a different screw so I wonder what of all I did has been the cause of this, not that it matters much.


----------



## JamesL

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Heres the link

Audio Catalog

 It's not full size and is cheap steel with an aluminum faceplate. I have no idea what the shipping cost is but I don't think it will be much more than 20US. I emailed them a few hours ago to find out shipping cost for this to N America. No reply yet.

 Peete._

 

That's the same place I got my quotes from... $145 shipping for 5kg. 
 Mind letting us know how much it totaled out to? I'm interested in knowing how much the lighter packages come out to.


----------



## DCT

mine new Zero have extra spaced gap on the other side for better cooling. i'll place my earth Hdam there


----------



## AudioPhewl

Random splurge to just get my signature in here. It's been a few posts 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JamesL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's the same place I got my quotes from... $145 shipping for 5kg. 
 Mind letting us know how much it totaled out to? I'm interested in knowing how much the lighter packages come out to._

 

I haven't heard back from them about my inquiry. I hope it's a decent price. I figure anything between 20 and 30 US would be reasonable for shipping such a small case. I could be wrong about that. I'll have to wait and see.

 Which case were you looking at James ? The all aluminum ones are quite nice.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Hi AP....how's it going today ? 

 Got my PS1 all assembled just need to wire up the tranny and make the necessary and delicate mods to the audio gd harness extensions to give it a try.....

 Should I forgo the use of the small gage wires and use a larger gage straight from the reg board ? Seems like a good idea, but is it necessary ? What do you think ? Oh heres a pic of the completed reg board (I finished it yesterday)






 The table cloth has got to go 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The wife likes it.......so I guess I better like it...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

One more question to CC or Alex...anyone actually....

 The ground scheme on the reg board board has 3 points, the center pad I presume is chassis ground while the two ground lines tied to the + and - lines are audio ground. Would this be a correct assumption ?

 Peete.


----------



## StratCat

Hey guys -

 Haven't been on the fora for several months, but thought I'd pop in.

 Still very happy with my ZERO going on, oh, maybe 3 mos now. It's still stock (including the op-amps), and about my only (minor) complaint is the low-volume balance issue with the stock volume pot. Very minor, really, in the scope of things cuz I'm very happy with this little budget box, but if doing it again....definitely the ALPS pot upgrade.

 I think the pot quirk mainly shows itself due to the otherwise great s/q. It's too easy to forget this is such an inexpensive piece of gear when listening to it and living with it.

 And _ cipercomplete's _recommendation of AKG K701's for classical was a great match for me and the ZERO. I still can't wait to toss on my cans the moment I sit at my compy.

 So that's about it. I'll probably live with the stock pot, and get around to grabbing an LD or DV tube amp when I feel like burning a few bux (I'm betting the K701's will respond nicely).

 'Till then, I'm rekindling my love affair with electronically reproduced classical music (It's been a long lull since my NAD/Dalquist days).

 Thanks again guys.

 C'ya 'round the fora.

 Eddie


----------



## ccschua

Finally back after some hectic travelling to China.

 First thing I do, remove the original Gucci RCA and replace with the RCA (free gift from Mr He). Next put the connecting wire using Silver cable. This tiny silver cable is thinner than hair and so flimsy.

 Next solder a wire to the RCA ground and connect OPA earth ground to this wire.

 Connect the Volex 17604 (corrected to British polarity) and off the ZERO dac sings. 

 I was like 'shock' and awe and my jaw was wide open. The sound is more transparent with very good imaging. Worth my day.

 When the OPA ground is not connected, I measured some running AC voltage of about 0.15V (floating voltage). Connecting it to ground force it to zero. I prefer to connect the OPA ground to the RCA ground (not to the chasis ground).

 I feel the contribution is the most from Volex, next is the Silver cable which is giving me more on the highs (my system suffers from that).


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Finally back after some hectic travelling to China.

 First thing I do, remove the original Gucci RCA and replace with the RCA (free gift from Mr He). Next put the connecting wire using Silver cable. This tiny silver cable is thinner than hair and so flimsy.

 Next solder a wire to the RCA ground and connect OPA earth ground to this wire.

 Connect the Volex 17604 (corrected to British polarity) and off the ZERO dac sings. 

 I was like 'shock' and awe and my jaw was wide open. The sound is more transparent with very good imaging. Worth my day.

 When the OPA ground is not connected, I measured some running AC voltage of about 0.15V (floating voltage). Connecting it to ground force it to zero. I prefer to connect the OPA ground to the RCA ground (not to the chasis ground).

 I feel the contribution is the most from Volex, next is the Silver cable which is giving me more on the highs (my system suffers from that).
 snip_

 

Hey cc,

 Was it difficult to use the existing RCA holes in the case?? Did you have to do anything special? Thanks!


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One more question to CC or Alex...anyone actually....

 The ground scheme on the reg board board has 3 points, the center pad I presume is chassis ground while the two ground lines tied to the + and - lines are audio ground. Would this be a correct assumption ?

 Peete._

 

Hi PP,

 there is some info about grounding here which can clear alot of doubt.

Google Image Result for http://bp2.blogger.com/_COvnfAy4R9w/R9DTxxIlUQI/AAAAAAAABic/NkweFKp7M8M/s400/grounding+diagram2.gif

http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/ssps1_e.html

 shouldn't the tranny come with ground?


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey cc,

 Was it difficult to use the existing RCA holes in the case?? Did you have to do anything special? Thanks!_

 

Hi,

 None at all. I copied the idea from PP, his RCA replacement is directly on the stock RCA.

 Most of the mod job such as OMZ, etc recommends the RCA replacement. I once pulled out the stock RCA external casing. (thats why I said its like paper) The unit that I used is a solid core RCA.


----------



## shadowlord

Hi!

 unfortunately my zero picks up a lot of interference from a nearby hobby cb-radio guy. the voice isn't clear but i could hear him talking in the speakers.

 i disconnected the cable from the zero and the inteference stops. so i think that it's not the cable which picks up the interference but the zero.

 i only modded the top cover with a 60mm hole covered with a grill for pc use. i did this because the transistors where extreme hot on preamp mode. could it be that the cb-radio waves enter trough this hole?. could i apply additional shielding or could it still be the cable.

 any help would be appreceated.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,

 None at all. I copied the idea from PP, his RCA replacement is directly on the stock RCA.

 Most of the mod job such as OMZ, etc recommends the RCA replacement. I once pulled out the stock RCA external casing. (thats why I said its like paper) The unit that I used is a solid core RCA._

 

Thanks cc, I guess that will be next on my list of things for the FrankenZero.


----------



## Dexon

Sorry for interrupting but if anyone can help me clear some issues I'll be grateful.

 I just got the Zero, have some 10 hours on it. It works great with my Sony ES cdp as a transport but what surprised me most is that thiny Xitel MD-Port DG2 thing that came with it. I did nothing with my PC and foobar, no kernel streaming, no asio or anything yet sound is very very good. Is it possible that Xitel bypass XP's kmix by itself? What bothers me more is that I must go for Vista forsome reasons, does anyone use Xitel with that OS, will it work?

 BTW, sound is so open in midrange and actually is very smooth and easygoing from top to bottom with fine details. At first hour or two lack of dynamic was so evident but now is more alive than my previous source. What I missing from Sony is bas weight and authority, will it gain more of it after some more burining in?

 Thanx!


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dexon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry for interrupting but if anyone can help me clear some issues I'll be grateful.

 I just got the Zero, have some 10 hours on it. It works great with my Sony ES cdp as a transport but what surprised me most is that thiny Xitel MD-Port DG2 thing that came with it. I did nothing with my PC and foobar, no kernel streaming, no asio or anything yet sound is very very good. Is it possible that Xitel bypass XP's kmix by itself? What bothers me more is that I must go for Vista forsome reasons, does anyone use Xitel with that OS, will it work?

 BTW, sound is so open in midrange and actually is very smooth and easygoing from top to bottom with fine details. At first hour or two lack of dynamic was so evident but now is more alive than my previous source. What I missing from Sony is bas weight and authority, will it gain more of it after some more burining in?

 Thanx!_

 

Have u replaced the OPA or u just grab the OPA 627.. 

 OPA 627 can sound a bit dry. If u use USB, u are getting bit perfect transmission.


----------



## Dexon

I bought it from ebay seller 'wsz0304', think is OPA 627 in it, however, I'm not into moding right now. 

  Quote:


 Have u replaced the OPA or u just grab the OPA 627..


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi PP,

 there is some info about grounding here which can clear alot of doubt.


 shouldn't the tranny come with ground?_

 

Welcome back CC, glad you had a safe trip !!!!

 It has L and N pairs from the primary. That's it. I'm wondering aloud about the correct connections simply because of the 5 pads available (3 of which are ground) on the output side of the reg board. 

 I did the exact same thing as you did with the RCA jacks, it's a worthwhile tweak. Used silver plated OFC solid core wire. It was an exercise in patience since the jacks I used were the older type (rhodium plated) and required installation first then soldering. The jacks you used are far better for the application (nice jacks, same ones I used in the DIY DAC).

 Thanks for those links I'll have a look 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Welcome back CC, glad you had a safe trip !!!!

 It has L and N pairs from the primary. That's it. I'm wondering aloud about the correct connections simply because of the 5 pads available (3 of which are ground) on the output side of the reg board. 


 Thanks for those links I'll have a look 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Those similar female RCA are available at the VT4C website.

 I think the ground is meant for output of the regulator board, but I couldnt understand why 3 grounds and where these ground should be connected. (thot that should be V+ ground and V- ground.)

 This raises me to another question. I found the ground connection on audio-gd OPA Earth is connected to the input (instead of output). and Also reading the articles tell me that output ground and input ground should be isolated to avoid coupling effects. Earlier I was told to connect RCA ground to OPA ground (for easy way out of getting the ground). After talking of so many ground points, I hope u are not confused.

 Anyway, I will check with kingwa on this matter.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Well what I have been thinking is this, now bear with me on this (it could be all wrong ) as I fired off an email to Ron Welborne about this arrangement yesterday afternoon.

 A pic shows the config better....the writing (beside the board) is the color code pairings for the toroidal transformer.







 From left to right is V+ gnd gnd gnd V- 

 I had look underneath and the 3 gnd pads are tied to the same ground plane. That solves quite a bit methinks , only need one ground connection. The 2 pads per side allow 2 parallel feeds ( for 2 HDAMs for instance) to be used at one time....I would imagine. Sorry for all the noob questions but this is new territory for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Heres a crappy pic of the underside....forgive my less than perfect soldering skills 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 Hand cleaned the dang board......using a pic tool and alcohol swabs...I need to get some proper flux cleaner. The solder points are dark because the tooth brush I used to clear off chipped up flux had black shoe polish residue ...(Doh )_ lol.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

After reading some of material you have provided links for I have tentatively arrived at this conclusion....

 GND tied to IEC chassis ground point. Use of twisted pair sheilded (Gotham cable) cable doubled up for each V+ and V- run, drain wire attached to audio ground at HDAM end , open at other end.

 The 3 HDAMs will all be run in parallel from the reg board, the latter 2 for the H/Amp sharing the one extra pad on the Reg board outputs. The first run test will only utilize 1 output for 1 HDAM to prove the concept. It looks as though the PS1 Toroid floats the ground from the IEC primary connections (in parallel to the stock Toroidal ) tieing into that ground on the end of the circuit at the reg board outputs.

 Of course this could all be wrong but it seems to make sense to me at this point. I dare not test this until I get it right since I will have only one chance to do so and don't relish seeing a light show followed by a large puff of smoke 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shadowlord* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi!

 unfortunately my zero picks up a lot of interference from a nearby hobby cb-radio guy. the voice isn't clear but i could hear him talking in the speakers.

 i disconnected the cable from the zero and the inteference stops. so i think that it's not the cable which picks up the interference but the zero.

 i only modded the top cover with a 60mm hole covered with a grill for pc use. i did this because the transistors where extreme hot on preamp mode. could it be that the cb-radio waves enter trough this hole?. could i apply additional shielding or could it still be the cable.

 any help would be appreceated._

 

Is it the digital cable or the analog output cables that you disconnected ?

 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Hiya Peete,

 Am alright, little to report on really. Just enjoying listening to the Zero at the moment... still waiting for the big list of mods 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 Stax rig is growing on me enormously as the days pass... can't believe how naff my other cans sound now I'm used to the way the Stax portrays music. It'd in a totally different league... I initially felt my Senns were 70% as good, but now when I put them back on, they feel 170% behind.

 Funny how our ears adjust 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 How you doing? Feeling better?

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hiya Peete,

 Am alright, little to report on really. Just enjoying listening to the Zero at the moment... still waiting for the big list of mods 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.

 Stax rig is growing on me enormously as the days pass... can't believe how naff my other cans sound now I'm used to the way the Stax portrays music. It'd in a totally different league... I initially felt my Senns were 70% as good, but now when I put them back on, they feel 170% behind.

 Funny how our ears adjust 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 How you doing? Feeling better?

 ~Phewl._

 


 Hi AP,

 Thanks bro I am finally getting back to normal, it's been a tough week and a half for me. 

 It's certainly interesting to note the realignment of your SQ meter so to speak. At some point you'll hit the wall and have a solid base point with which to base decisions on WRT to other gear. It's great IMO to experience this as often as possible because most of the time these events are far and few between based on a million little factors that seem to have no impact in the larger picture yet when those factors align in perfect harmony, the result is magical 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 BTW the large cap order I placed a while ago, to complete the list of parts needed for the kits is still outstanding, although I anticipate it's arrival sometime during the coming week ( I hope). With the way things are going around Head Fi of late, a whole pile of things beyond my control are up in the air. That being said the "details" will be released as soon as prudence allows.

 Peete.


----------



## shadowlord

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it the digital cable or the analog output cables that you disconnected ?

 Peete._

 

i disconnected the analog output cables. for digital i use a optical cable.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shadowlord* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i disconnected the analog output cables. for digital i use a optical cable._

 

Ok, when you connect the phones to the H/Amp and engage it does this interference manifest itself with the analog outs disconnected ?

 Peete.


----------



## vorlonix

dunno about him, but i get a low frequency buzz on my zero's headphone output with comcast internet.


 if i unplug the co-ax from the splitter it goes away.

 i've tried a new splitter and shielded co-ax...nothin helped


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vorlonix* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_dunno about him, but i get a low frequency buzz on my zero's headphone output with comcast internet.


 if i unplug the co-ax from the splitter it goes away.

 i've tried a new splitter and shielded co-ax...nothin helped_

 

You've got a ground loop. 

 Isolate the Zero from the circuit the modem and other comp gear is on.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JamesL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's the same place I got my quotes from... $145 shipping for 5kg. 
 Mind letting us know how much it totaled out to? I'm interested in knowing how much the lighter packages come out to._

 

Hi James,

 I received my quote today for that little chassis. 17.50US for surface mail (2-3 months) and 38.50US for Air mail ( 6-10 days). Seems a little steep, but not outrageous considering the distance involved.

 Peete.


----------



## shaddix

haha this is fantastic xD


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Heres a pic of the HDAM/PS1 mock up for DAC section HDAM in the Zero for those that are interested.

 I ordered that little chassis (mentioned a couple pages back), but it's coming by surface mail, 2-3 months, plenty of time to iron out kinks etc...

 Note, the pic is of the PS1 set up, wired up, tested and ready for the real thing.

 + - measurements are shade under 15 V DC. 14.97 to be exact (both sides)...Nice work Ron !!!!






 The whole thing, the blue wire with the ring terminal of ground...haven't figured out where that will go yet if it's needed at all. Best guess is with IEC ground wire that is bolted to chassis. The IEC pictured is temporary.






 Plug and play interface (kinda) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## ccschua

Hi PP,

 are u going to have 3 separate power supply each for the dac and 2x headphone amp.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi PP,

 are u going to have 3 separate power supply each for the dac and 2x headphone amp._

 

Hi CC,

 That board and tranny have enough to power all three HDAMs with loads to spare.

 Just finished the test and something isn't right, dunno what it is right now, could be the extension cable, could be the way I've wired it up....I get sound but it is really reduced and static filled. That is through the H/Amp , didn't test line out because I had it set up at the Kitchen table with just a DVD player as a source connected via coax out to the Zero. 

 I wonder if the pins of the extension were not making good contact ? I double checked the V + V - ...maybe I better look at those again. Yep just checked pin out is correct from reg and correlates to proper pins on the extension. This should work in theory...got to be something simple.

 When I took the reg/tranny out of the loop and plugged the HDAM back in everything went back to normal....so I'm 75% there.....any ideas CC ?

 I did not connect the reg board ground in the test...could that be the issue ?


 Peete.


----------



## shaddix

I have a question, I ordered from lawrence with alps pot. two clicks i hear nothing, 3rd click the left channel is louder than the right, 4 and it seems to be equal. is that normal?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shaddix* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a question, I ordered from lawrence with alps pot. two clicks i hear nothing, 3rd click the left channel is louder than the right, 4 and it seems to be equal. is that normal?_

 

I think so, I haven't tested that of late. Hold on......yup mine is exactly the same as yours.

 No worries I think.

 Peete.


----------



## shaddix

Ah thanks alot pete 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I guess I owe you guys a picture of my setup since I did leech all your knowledge. All i have is crappy phone cam so it will have to wait til daylight


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shaddix* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah thanks alot pete 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I guess I owe you guys a picture of my setup since I did leech all your knowledge. All i have is crappy phone cam so it will have to wait til daylight 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That's cool, as long as your enjoying your gear that's good enough for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Pics of any quality are welcome anytime !!!

 Peete.


----------



## bundee1

how bad is the stock pot? is it unbalanced at all volumes or only low? are all the stock pots troublesome?


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_how bad is the stock pot? is it unbalanced at all volumes or only low? are all the stock pots troublesome?_

 

Mine is actually perfectly fine, although I have Hi-Impedance cans (Senns), so maybe I just don't notice (and 9 times out of 10 I use the Little Dot to be fair).


----------



## bundee1

I plan on using it in a speaker based system but if you cant hear any imbalance in a headphone setup, thats pretty good. Anyone else have praise or problems with the stock pot?


----------



## DaMnEd

Mine is unbalanced up to 7~7.5’oclock +/-, from that point on no balance issues, I never use such low volume, so, not a problem on my setup, but I can see a setup with low impedance cans having problems with the stock pot, the volume level at 7~7.5’oclock on a low impedance can will be higher than on my setup (HD650).


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I plan on using it in a speaker based system but if you cant hear any imbalance in a headphone setup, thats pretty good. Anyone else have praise or problems with the stock pot?_

 

I have imbalance problem with my headphone setup at low volume levels... and it's pretty big.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








 Diego


----------



## shaddix

peace of mind isn't worth $20?!



 sorry i've nothing to contribute XD Lawrence put alps in mine so i've no idea what stock sounds like


 <.< people pay hundreds for peace of mind here lol >.>

 oh damn a late reply lol <.<


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I plan on using it in a speaker based system but if you cant hear any imbalance in a headphone setup, thats pretty good. Anyone else have praise or problems with the stock pot?_

 

Hi Bundee1,

 Are you using the fixed line out to a preamp, or the H/Amp as preamp out to an amp ?

 If it's the latter I'd suggest getting the Alps pot. You might want to upgrade the RCA jacks while your at it. Those two upgrades make a nice difference in SQ, not huge mind you but good enough to warrant the cost of the pot and jacks. I used a 10US set of jacks, and Alps cost me 10US. 

 I don't know what LC is charging for the pot nowadays...

 These are just suggestions B1....

 Peete.


----------



## Sganzerla

I made the caps mod, cutting the legs of them, total of 4.

 It may be placebo but I really think the sound is less harsh at highs, tighter and more open/natural, can't describe very well. I'm using K701 here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now I need to know if one could cut these ones here:





 This is the HDAM right?






 How many hours one should expect to use before it reaches its burn time? Mine has around 40/50 and it looks like bass is a little stronger than before. Don't know if it is my mind too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Soon will be upgrading cables and adding an amp, I hope.

 If someone need a bigger picture of the ZERO DAC board for any good reason, send me a PM.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I made the caps mod, cutting the legs of them, total of 4.

 It may be placebo but I really think the sound is less harsh at highs, tighter and more open/natural, can't describe very well. I'm using K701 here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now I need to know if one could cut these ones here:





 This is the HDAM right?






 How many hours one should expect to use before it reaches its burn time? Mine has around 40/50 and it looks like bass is a little stronger than before. Don't know if it is my mind too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Soon will be upgrading cables and adding an amp, I hope.

 If someone need a bigger picture of the ZERO DAC board for any good reason, send me a PM._

 

Hi Sganzerla, about 50 hours mine turned from really rather good to "Holy Mother of God!" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Literally from overnight to morning, a subwoofer was switched on, mids opened out and the treble just extended and crispened up, I've never heard anything like it! Amazing how that happens, even when some of the components in the Earth HDAMs are pre-burned in. Go figure, I love it!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 From 70 hours on, there just seems to be very incremental expansion of fine detailing and effortless dynamics. 
 One thing though, I noticed in your pic of the HDAM that it is nestled right up with the transformer, have you noticed any slight hum problems at all? 
 You could look at siting in on a small piece of felt, or similar material, maybe closer to the socket on top of the electronics nearby. I guess you are limited with the length of the extentions, though you could shorten them if you fancy. There is a possibility that you could be inducing radiation from the transformer directly into the HDAM, with subsequent sonic pollution. 
 Just a thought, though it did kind of give me the shudders to see it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Happy listening all the same, I loooove my Zero+HDAMs+650s!


----------



## Shizdan

Would this be a good combo with my Auzentech prelude and my HD 555's?


----------



## LeBuLLeT

sennsay what is your exact setup for your ZERO? Do you have lt1364's and Earth or did you put 3 Earths in there?


----------



## shaddix

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shizdan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would this be a good combo with my Auzentech prelude and my HD 555's?_

 

fwiw I have 50 ohm 595s, and I can't listen to badly mastered pop music(e.g. californication(too bad this sounds terrible anyway 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 because i like the music ; ; (damn you head-fi for ruining my music!!))) without turning the volume on foobar down X_X;;;;;;;;; I mean that's with the amp set with minimal possible volume to where the channels are balanced(alps pot)

 edit: yay 50 posts 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 oh btw i'm using that cheapo pclink thing for usb>optical>zero. Waiting on those expresscard x-fi's with optical to get back in stock X_X;;;;

 hell I can barely listen to pop music that isn't clipped out the ass on the 650s. Maybe its just this transport I'm using or something. I have to leave zero on extremely low volume @_@; i that normal?

 Maybe my ears are just in good shape >: D


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sennsay what is your exact setup for your ZERO? Do you have lt1364's and Earth or did you put 3 Earths in there?_

 

 Hi there LeBuLLeT, I have HDAM Earth in the DAC, kept the LT1364s in the amp, another Earth HDAM in my KHA amp and on to the 650s, which are still running in. Lost count of the hours, I'm just listening and enjoying them. 
 HDAMs have had over 100 hrs burn in and some 70+ hrs listening on them. 
 Not too keen on the 3 HDAM set at the moment, I don't want to ... ah ... over-accessorize just for now, I'll leave the experimenting to PP and others for now. I will be rebuilding KHA soon enough, once all the good caps arrive.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Sorry for this noob question but what exactly is a KHA? I am pretty sure its a headphone amp but which one exactly.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shizdan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would this be a good combo with my Auzentech prelude and my HD 555's?_

 

Sorry, I'm unfamiliar with the Auzentech Prelude, though I had a set of the 555s for a while. I liked them, though they are too forward to match with KHA - too much of a good thing as they are tonally similar.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry for this noob question but what exactly is a KHA? I am pretty sure its a headphone amp but which one exactly._

 

No worries on the question, KHA stands for Kit Headphone Amp, a very nice design that comes from Silicon Chip Magazine in Australia. KHA is my own term instead of writing it all out every time. It's Silicon Chip's best head amp design so far, used to have an Burr Brown OPA2134 in the input stages and now has OPA Earth HDAM - an enormous difference, after trialling LT1028s on BD adapter, LT1057, OPA2064 and OPA627s on a BD adapter. HDAM cleans up! HDAM rocks!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 So, I have two HDAMs in the system. I pronounce it all rather terrific.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 KHA is also very cheap to buy, the kit costs $35NZD and a bit less in OZ, plus $15NZD for the low noise power supply. I am going to buy another main board and kit it out with Dale resistors and Nichicon Muse and Elna Silmic caps and some decent input sockets. Oughta be interesting!
 In comparison with the Zero's amp, it's faster, more open, more 3D and somewhat cleaner and more precise in the bass. Strangely, the Zero sounds cleaner in the bass with the puta (G4 iBook) than it does from the Yamaha CDP's dig out. However it is still more 2D, while being very enjoyable at the same time. Fab value regardless.

 PS I ought to add that KHA is an all transistor design and occasionally I use it with my Trevor Lees tube pre-amp.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Cool that seems like an interest amp. Do you have a link of the article or pictures of the amp itself and power supply? Is it a hard build anyways?


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cool that seems like an interest amp. Do you have a link of the article or pictures of the amp itself and power supply? Is it a hard build anyways?_

 

Building it is a piece of cake, there is nothing to adjust once assembled. If the two red LEDs are lit up, it's highly likely it will work perfectly and silently first time. I've built two of them, the first one with a passive pot on the input, so that it can be used directly from a CD player. 
 Here's a couple of pics, one of just the main board plus HDAM and the other with attached power supply. Both are mounted on a temporary platform until I find a suitable case and I've finished all the mods. All of the PS caps on both boards have been bypassed with MKP (polypropylene) .01uF caps. The nasty little ceramic caps have been replaced with the appropriate MKPs (unseen here, under the HDAM). They are in the feedback loop and critical for best sound, which is even clearer, smoother and more open than before. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 You can get a board(s) from Jaycar Electronics. Main board is Cat No KC5417
 and the PS board is Cat No KC5418 from here:
http://www.jaycar.co.nz/productResul...Min=&priceMax=

 Oh yeah, I should add that there are a couple of configurations to suit anything up to 600 ohm cans and whether you want to use it with a pre-amp or without. All parts for those options are supplied.


----------



## shaddix

it doesn't sound like the channels are balanced until the fifth notch to me. the left channel still seems slightly louder on the fourth. and some pop music is too loud to listen to on the fifth. How do I decrease the volume without sacrificing quality?

 this is with 650s btw


----------



## LeBuLLeT

sennsay so there already kits for this amp? Just need to order it and assemble it? Well going to sleep now will see more about it when I wake up. Thanks sennsay


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shaddix* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_it doesn't sound like the channels are balanced until the fifth notch to me. the left channel still seems slightly louder on the fourth. and some pop music is too loud to listen to on the fifth. How do I decrease the volume without sacrificing quality?

 this is with 650s btw_

 

Hmm, sounds like your pot isn't quite as good as some others, mine included. I have perfect balance by three clicks from zero. If you are coming from a computer, can you lower the volume output from there, giving you more play with the Zero's vol pot? I am only familiar with iTunes, but there must be a way of decreasing the volume out, either in your preferences or your music programme, Foobar, maybe?


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sennsay so there already kits for this amp? Just need to order it and assemble it? Well going to sleep now will see more about it when I wake up. Thanks sennsay_

 

No worries, mate. Yep, kits come with everything except a transformer and case. Recommendations are on the website. I will be heading for the sack shortly as well. After Neil Young and Crazy Horse have finished their sesh on the great DVD Year of the Horse.


----------



## shaddix

I can decrease the volume via foobar yes, but I was under the impression that that is detrimental to the signal and I should leave it at maximum volume.

 Is there anything I can do to this thing to make it more balanced? Mine is balanced after four clicks. Maybe I'm just hearing things?

 1st click - nothing
 2nd click - left channel
 3rd click - both, and it sounded like the left was louder but now i'm not sure lol. I put them on backwards earlier and it seemed to confirm that the left channel was louder but I don't know anymore X_X Maybe i will switch the cables form left/right


 edit: okay i can't hear any imbalance anymore. maybe my ears were just broken before @_@;;;;;;


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shaddix* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can decrease the volume via foobar yes, but I was under the impression that that is detrimental to the signal and I should leave it at maximum volume.

 Is there anything I can do to this thing to make it more balanced? Mine is balanced after four clicks. Maybe I'm just hearing things?

 1st click - nothing
 2nd click - left channel
 3rd click - both, and it sounded like the left was louder but now i'm not sure lol. I put them on backwards earlier and it seemed to confirm that the left channel was louder but I don't know anymore X_X Maybe i will switch the cables form left/right


 edit: okay i can't hear any imbalance anymore. maybe my ears were just broken before @_@;;;;;;_

 

Hi Shaddix,

 If this is happening with the ALPS upgrade pot (I think you have one, short memory here), then I would recommend cleaning out the pot with Deoxit 5 or Gold. This may help by several notches. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Back when I got my upgraded ALPS pots, I cleaned them before installing, so I'm not too clear on whether or not some are dirtier than others, when new.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi CC,

 That board and tranny have enough to power all three HDAMs with loads to spare.

 Just finished the test and something isn't right, dunno what it is right now, could be the extension cable, could be the way I've wired it up....I get sound but it is really reduced and static filled. That is through the H/Amp , didn't test line out because I had it set up at the Kitchen table with just a DVD player as a source connected via coax out to the Zero. 

 I wonder if the pins of the extension were not making good contact ? I double checked the V + V - ...maybe I better look at those again. Yep just checked pin out is correct from reg and correlates to proper pins on the extension. This should work in theory...got to be something simple.

 When I took the reg/tranny out of the loop and plugged the HDAM back in everything went back to normal....so I'm 75% there.....any ideas CC ?

 I did not connect the reg board ground in the test...could that be the issue ?


 Peete._

 

If the wiring is correct and the wire is connected properly, then the ground issue has to be checked. I saw in your post u have a blue wire to connect the ground to the chasis right. Can u try to connect the regulator ground to the DAC regulator ground. Which point of the regulator need to be checked.

 Please get a multimeter and measure the V+ to casing earth and V- to casing earth. Check to see if the voltage is steady. I think u might have a unbalance voltage.

 Kingwa just back from HongKong.

 rgds


----------



## Sganzerla

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Sganzerla, about 50 hours mine turned from really rather good to "Holy Mother of God!" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Literally from overnight to morning, a subwoofer was switched on, mids opened out and the treble just extended and crispened up, I've never heard anything like it! Amazing how that happens, even when some of the components in the Earth HDAMs are pre-burned in. Go figure, I love it!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 From 70 hours on, there just seems to be very incremental expansion of fine detailing and effortless dynamics. 
 One thing though, I noticed in your pic of the HDAM that it is nestled right up with the transformer, have you noticed any slight hum problems at all? 
 You could look at siting in on a small piece of felt, or similar material, maybe closer to the socket on top of the electronics nearby. I guess you are limited with the length of the extentions, though you could shorten them if you fancy. There is a possibility that you could be inducing radiation from the transformer directly into the HDAM, with subsequent sonic pollution. 
 Just a thought, though it did kind of give me the shudders to see it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Happy listening all the same, I loooove my Zero+HDAMs+650s!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Sennsay, thanks for the info!

 There is no hum I can hear, only very slight if I raise the volume at MAX without any source. HDAM is sitting on something soft like foam. This mod was done from Lawrence as I don't have any knowledge in this field. I will left it there until any problem occurs. Risks are high if I try to change. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Guys,

 One thing I've noticed, my volume pot is continuous, it doesn't have clicks, may it be have been upgraded? Sound from MIN to 8'clock appear more on the right channel, after that it is on both sides equally. Not a problem for me because I use it only from 9' to 10'.


----------



## Shizdan

How would this setup be 
 Auzentech Prelude w/ 627AU OP Amps-->Zero--->HD 555s and/or logitech Z-5300E and/or ATH-AD 700


----------



## JamesL

^
 I don't see the point in using the auzentech prelude w/ opa627 before the Zero.

 If you are feeding a digital signal from the Prelude to the Zero via optical output, all analog components inside the prelude will get bypassed. You'll probably get the same sound quality from using the digital output from your motherboard.
 If you are feeding a line-out signal to the Zero DAC, there are really better choices for stand-alone amplifiers than the Zero. The amp inside the Zero is not bad, but it is much better known for it's DAC. By feeding an analog signal to the Zero, you're bypassing the Zero's DAC.

 I know people say X headphone absolutely needs a high-end setup to drive them, but imo, it's much better to allot most of your budget into your headphones, and spend whatever is left over on an amplifier/dac. 
 I think either the zero, or prelude.. with your headphones of choice would be a good choice.


----------



## Shizdan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JamesL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^
 I don't see the point in using the auzentech prelude w/ opa627 before the Zero.

 If you are feeding a digital signal from the Prelude to the Zero via optical output, all analog components inside the prelude will get bypassed. You'll probably get the same sound quality from using the digital output from your motherboard.
 If you are feeding a line-out signal to the Zero DAC, there are really better choices for stand-alone amplifiers than the Zero. The amp inside the Zero is not bad, but it is much better known for it's DAC. By feeding an analog signal to the Zero, you're bypassing the Zero's DAC.

 I know people say X headphone absolutely needs a high-end setup to drive them, but imo, it's much better to allot most of your budget into your headphones, and spend whatever is left over on an amplifier/dac. 
 I think either the zero, or prelude.. with your headphones of choice would be a good choice._

 

Thanks for clearign that up for me. I will skip getting the zero and just get use my prelude and later down the road get some new cans


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If the wiring is correct and the wire is connected properly, then the ground issue has to be checked. I saw in your post u have a blue wire to connect the ground to the chasis right. Can u try to connect the regulator ground to the DAC regulator ground. Which point of the regulator need to be checked.

 Please get a multimeter and measure the V+ to casing earth and V- to casing earth. Check to see if the voltage is steady. I think u might have a unbalance voltage.

 Kingwa just back from HongKong.

 rgds_

 

Hi CC,

 I wondered that ........I'll get on that this evening. I asked Ron about it as well and he agreed the ground strap (as I like to call it ) needs to be located with the IEC ground on the chassis back panel.

 I have two other ideas outside of this method but will pose those if the ground connection does not solve the issue. I need to check the audio-gd harness out for continuity to make sure I'm not getting any intermittent contacts....

 Thanks again for your insight CC, we'll get this licked yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shizdan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How would this setup be 
 Auzentech Prelude w/ 627AU OP Amps-->Zero--->HD 555s and/or logitech Z-5300E and/or ATH-AD 700_

 

A good combo would be this......SC-> Zero with 627s in DAC section, HD 555.

 Just a suggestion. JamesL is correct , once you take the digital signal from the SC your bypassing it's analog section (where the 627's would function for the L/R analog outs from the SC). But those same opamps could be used for the Zero....in fact the Head Fi deal would preclude you from having to source these parts at all, and pay extra for the BB chips since they come standard from a couple of vendors as a bonus upgrade of sorts that are selling the Zero right now. LC 's head fi member's deal includes the LT1364's in the H/Amp section along with the previously mentioned 627's. I think that deal now includes an option for the Alps pot ? It's been a while since I've asked LC what's what WRT to the members deal so the last bit about the Alps pot could be wrong.

 Just an FYI for your consideration.

 Peete.


----------



## Shizdan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A good combo would be this......SC-> Zero with 627s in DAC section, HD 555.

 Just a suggestion. JamesL is correct , once you take the digital signal from the SC your bypassing it's analog section (where the 627's would function for the L/R analog outs from the SC). But those same opamps could be used for the Zero....in fact the Head Fi deal would preclude you from having to source these parts at all, and pay extra for the BB chips since they come standard from a couple of vendors as a bonus upgrade of sorts that are selling the Zero right now. LC 's head fi member's deal includes the LT1364's in the H/Amp section along with the previously mentioned 627's. I think that deal now includes an option for the Alps pot ? It's been a while since I've asked LC what's what WRT to the members deal so the last bit about the Alps pot could be wrong.

 Just an FYI for your consideration.

 Peete._

 

So that way i can also have EAX 5.0 as well........im ef gonna look at this


----------



## DaMnEd

I think EAX trough spdif is only possible with Creative’s own X-fi's solutions, Auzen for some reason is not allowing this.


----------



## Shizdan

hmm


----------



## Shizdan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A good combo would be this......SC-> Zero with 627s in DAC section, HD 555.

 Just a suggestion. JamesL is correct , once you take the digital signal from the SC your bypassing it's analog section (where the 627's would function for the L/R analog outs from the SC). But those same opamps could be used for the Zero....in fact the Head Fi deal would preclude you from having to source these parts at all, and pay extra for the BB chips since they come standard from a couple of vendors as a bonus upgrade of sorts that are selling the Zero right now. LC 's head fi member's deal includes the LT1364's in the H/Amp section along with the previously mentioned 627's. I think that deal now includes an option for the Alps pot ? It's been a while since I've asked LC what's what WRT to the members deal so the last bit about the Alps pot could be wrong.

 Just an FYI for your consideration.

 Peete._

 

what do you mean by "deals through LC"?


----------



## shaddix

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Shaddix,

 If this is happening with the ALPS upgrade pot (I think you have one, short memory here), then I would recommend cleaning out the pot with Deoxit 5 or Gold. This may help by several notches. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Yeah I got lawrence to install alps for me. That sounds intimidating lol. I will look into it once the novelty wears off, I would feel awful breaking the thing so soon after getting it XD

 thank you for the suggestion


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shizdan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_what do you mean by "deals through LC"?_

 

LC = Lawrence Chan. eBay username "biglahwk", see the link in my signature.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## viscosity

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now I need to know if one could cut these ones here:



_

 

can anyone answer this? what would happen if one were to snip these..


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *viscosity* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_can anyone answer this? what would happen if one were to snip these.._

 

Don't cut those....is my advice. I can't tell you why other than it doesn't look like its in the audio path and may be necessary for stability of the (for example) clock can ....someone more learned than I can hopefully point the use for those.

 Peete.


----------



## sdgserv

Got a question..I have had the Zero for a while..I am using a coaxial from the computer, can I hook up a toslink from my TV, will the Zero allow me to have both..I know I can't play at the same time but to switch between them.

 Thanks


----------



## viscosity

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sdgserv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got a question..I have had the Zero for a while..I am using a coaxial from the computer, can I hook up a toslink from my TV, will the Zero allow me to have both..I know I can't play at the same time but to switch between them.

 Thanks_

 

I would assume yes.. but give it a try as I have not done it myself


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't cut those....is my advice. I can't tell you why other than it doesn't look like its in the audio path and may be necessary for stability of the (for example) clock can ....someone more learned than I can hopefully point the use for those.

 Peete._

 

Hiya PP, yeah I agree completely, definitely do not cut those! Replace 'em with better polystyrenes if you want, but I have learned that lesson before -indiscriminate snipping is not good!


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sdgserv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got a question..I have had the Zero for a while..I am using a coaxial from the computer, can I hook up a toslink from my TV, will the Zero allow me to have both..I know I can't play at the same time but to switch between them.

 Thanks_

 

Absolutely you can have both and switch between them, I have done many times.


----------



## DCT

I Think my Zero starting to mature now. Last hour it sound crap but now bass get tighter and sound seemed to be more transparent. WOW


----------



## StratCat

Well, I don't know what to say:

 I've spent the last several days catching up from page ~370 (where I last posted) to page 575 (with another ~130 pages left to go). Dayem! You guys have been busy! And I'm envious!

 Looks like another day or three for me to get current, and then it seems there's no way I'm going to be happy leaving my ZERO stock anymore.

 Good work, gentlemen.

 Carry on.


----------



## Cecala

If this thread reaches 1000 pages I would then be forced to get one of these!


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Direct* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have seen the light.

 The problem was in where the ground wire was attached, which was apparently not the circuit ground, but just the chassis. For some reason, this made the discrete opamp modules overheat, thus perform worse, and also made the LM317/337 regulators get too hot.

 With the grounds disconnected (temporarily), the Earth really sounds quite good and nothing gets hot anymore._

 

Actually, you could just leave the earth lead off, if you like. I haven't connected mine at all, not a trace of hum or other noise and my HDAM remains warm only - both off them, as I have one in my KHA (amp) as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Good point you make about the overheating with the earth wire to chassis ground BTW.


----------



## ddoingwell

OK; after reading only BITS of all this (30 pages or so) it seems clear to me that buying one of these things is actually a BAD idea unless a person can do some DIY modifications. Correct? For a mutt like me with six thumbs per hand and no technical skills at all, it sounds like I'm asking for disappointment. Ideas please and be nice; I'm old. And a musician. Humm it for me....


----------



## Currawong

If you can handle a screwdriver and gently pulling out a couple of nail-sized chips, you'll be fine.


----------



## ddoingwell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you can handle a screwdriver and gently pulling out a couple of nail-sized chips, you'll be fine._

 

Thanks for that. What about just buying one that is already upgraded? I saw one on eBay and mentioned it earlier (MUCH!) in this thread and Penchum seemed to think the upgrade was worth having however it was not a product from biglawhk; it was from shenzhen Audio store and looks like this:

ZERO 24/192 DAC DA CONVERTOR, HEAD AMP(Upgrade Version) - eBay (item 110290388662 end time Sep-27-08 00:29:11 PDT)

 Wuddya think?


----------



## Carter54

How is the Zero at handling hard to drive headphones line the HD650 and the K701's?

 I currently am using ATH-A900's and these are very easy to drive but am looking to get a set of High en open cans and was wondering if I need to budget for a dedicated amp?

 Thanks in Advance Carter


----------



## ddoingwell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you can handle a screwdriver and gently pulling out a couple of nail-sized chips, you'll be fine._

 

CURRAWONG...I just read your Introduction to the ZERO; perhaps I could have avoided asking annoying questions had I read that first however I still have ONE more annoying question. To get the model that is "as far as you can go without soldering", your highly recommended item, would I need to do anything else? Any more pulling of "nail-sized chips"? 

 THANK YOU VERY MUCH
 D


----------



## sdgserv

Thanks Now I need a 10 ft toslink


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ddoingwell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_CURRAWONG...I just read your Introduction to the ZERO; perhaps I could have avoided asking annoying questions had I read that first however I still have ONE more annoying question. To get the model that is "as far as you can go without soldering", your highly recommended item, would I need to do anything else? Any more pulling of "nail-sized chips"? 

 THANK YOU VERY MUCH
 D_

 

You'd need to purchase a HDAM unit from Audio-gd (with extension wires) and that's where you'd get into using a screwdriver, then some careful swapping of that chip with the long pins you see in the photos on that auction with the HDAM unit. It's quite easy. 

 I've taken some pictures of the inside of my Zero, so I'm due to add them to my guide.


----------



## glitch39

Has anyone gotten the opa-sun v2 and opa-moon yet? Looking for a verdict on these for the DAC section.

 Used opa-sun v1 and it was too bright. From reading the literature, it seems like they may fixed the issue, but not sure if it's still bright though.

 And the opa-moon? How do make it sound tube-like using transistors?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ddoingwell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK; after reading only BITS of all this (30 pages or so) it seems clear to me that buying one of these things is actually a BAD idea unless a person can do some DIY modifications. Correct? For a mutt like me with six thumbs per hand and no technical skills at all, it sounds like I'm asking for disappointment. Ideas please and be nice; I'm old. And a musician. Humm it for me...._

 

Or you can look at it as your opportunity to turn all those thumbs back into fingers by learning on an easy inexpensive platform. The in and outs of which (small modifications) translate across many types of gear....I'm a glass is half full kinda guy....everyone at some point is all thumbs....myself included 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Peete.

 PS The base top line solder-less Zero anyone can update.....simply means the DAC opamp is replaced with an HDAM......Captain Hook could handle that one, although Smee would have to undo the chassis screws for him, IMO of course


----------



## liquid steel

So...

 I ordered my Amp from lawrence, as some of you may remember, and he put the DAC opamp in backwards. In the effort expedite the process, I ordered spare OPA627's and a converter dealie. The guy I ordered them from JUST got me the opamps... but did not send the converter.

 :sigh:

 Anyone know of a place that I can get one very quick? blehh


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Carter54* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How is the Zero at handling hard to drive headphones line the HD650 and the K701's?

 I currently am using ATH-A900's and these are very easy to drive but am looking to get a set of High en open cans and was wondering if I need to budget for a dedicated amp?

 Thanks in Advance Carter_

 

Does a good job with HD650's, those with K701's will have to chime in...

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *liquid steel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So...

 I ordered my Amp from lawrence, as some of you may remember, and he put the DAC opamp in backwards. In the effort expedite the process, I ordered spare OPA627's and a converter dealie. The guy I ordered them from JUST got me the opamps... but did not send the converter.

 :sigh:

 Anyone know of a place that I can get one very quick? blehh_

 

Er... no, sorry LS. Was it back ordered or they just forgot to send it ? That's a PITA....when that happens.....

 Your sig cracks me up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Peete.


 PS Wait a sec..NEVERMIND....I thought you meant the USB----> SPDIF adapter...Doh...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I have to say sorry to CC, I've been lazy the last 24 hours and haven't yet tried the suggested config for the Reg/Board tranny HDAM experiment...don't worry though...it'll be done this evening for sure (real life took over last night, had to attempt my pathetic French skills since the kid is going to French Immersion school and has French homework ...DOH !!!!) Lets just say it's been awhile (near 25 years) since my brain has had to think about spelling, syntax and pronunciation in French.

 Peete.


----------



## Lenni

I try to stay away from this evil site (due to budget issues) - in vain.
 I spent most of the day going thru the "Review: ZERO 24 BIT..." thread, got to up page 464 and place an order with Lawrence:

 Zero with HDAM + LT1364 $230 including air mail.
 Alps upgrade $20.
 USB to SPDIF adaptor $25.
 Total $275.

 He's gonna install everything for me, so hopefully I won't have to mess with it as I wouldn't know where to start. I really needed a DAC to replace the mediocre laptop sound card, but didn't have the budget for a half-decent DAC so this seems pretty good. hopefully is good enough to drive a new pair of AKG701 to a decent level. eventually I'll get a SS amp, and hopefully be done with it. damn it


----------



## Carter54

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *liquid steel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So...

 I ordered my Amp from lawrence, as some of you may remember, and he put the DAC opamp in backwards. In the effort expedite the process, I ordered spare OPA627's and a converter dealie. The guy I ordered them from JUST got me the opamps... but did not send the converter.

 :sigh:

 Anyone know of a place that I can get one very quick? blehh_

 

Not sure about quick but they sell them on Ebay:

2 x Dual to Mono Opamp PCB OPA2604 LM358 NE5532 > OPA - eBay (item 140270039113 end time Oct-01-08 09:00:44 PDT)


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *glitch39* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone gotten the opa-sun v2 and opa-moon yet? Looking for a verdict on these for the DAC section.

 Used opa-sun v1 and it was too bright. From reading the literature, it seems like they may fixed the issue, but not sure if it's still bright though.

 And the opa-moon? How do make it sound tube-like using transistors?_

 

Not yet G......I don't think the added caps change the voicing much for the SUN modules unless something else that hasn't been mentioned has been done to these modules....I could be wrong of course. I think people are a little gun shy (including myself) buying another "colored" HDAM in light of the SUN's 3.5 m Swan dive that turned into a SQ belly flop....IMO again...

 I have no funds to try the Moon .....tapped out for now until providence smiles upon me once again (if ever LOL).

 Peete.


----------



## liquid steel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Carter54* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not sure about quick but they sell them on Ebay:

2 x Dual to Mono Opamp PCB OPA2604 LM358 NE5532 > OPA - eBay (item 140270039113 end time Oct-01-08 09:00:44 PDT)_

 

I ordered one off ebay from someone else... he did not send it, though.

 I emailed him about it... he seems hesitant to ship again, ugh.


 I don't suppose anyone has a spare lying around they'd like to sell... ?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

How long ago did he (supposedly) send it ? Might be still in transit...I had a tube shipment get lost...then it showed a month later....no reason could be given for the huge delay (it had a tracking number and was sent expedited from the US to Can)....weird Postal black hole exists I tell you ...it exists 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *viscosity* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_can anyone answer this? what would happen if one were to snip these.._

 

Definitely don't snip those ones! They're in place to absorb noise from the crystal 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 Look in any reference DAC design, if there's a crystal, it'll have some small capacitors there as well.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Carter54* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How is the Zero at handling hard to drive headphones line the HD650 and the K701's?

 I currently am using ATH-A900's and these are very easy to drive but am looking to get a set of High en open cans and was wondering if I need to budget for a dedicated amp?

 Thanks in Advance Carter_

 

It had no problems driving my 600ohm HD480IIs to obscene volumes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *glitch39* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone gotten the opa-sun v2 and opa-moon yet? Looking for a verdict on these for the DAC section.

 Used opa-sun v1 and it was too bright. From reading the literature, it seems like they may fixed the issue, but not sure if it's still bright though.

 And the opa-moon? How do make it sound tube-like using transistors?_

 

A lot of folks on here have already ordered the HDAM modules - we took the gamble on the Sun, and generally settled for the Earth. As a result, there will be less and less people around wanting to part with more money to try out the new HDAM module.

 Maybe you could buy it, and post your thoughts for the benefit of others?

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not yet G......I don't think the added caps change the voicing much for the SUN modules unless something else that hasn't been mentioned has been done to these modules....I could be wrong of course. I think people are a little gun shy (including myself) buying another "colored" HDAM in light of the SUN's 3.5 m Swan dive that turned into a SQ belly flop....IMO again...

 I have no funds to try the Moon .....tapped out for now until providence smiles upon me once again (if ever LOL).

 Peete._

 

Well, the Sun was free with the Earth last month. I'm thinking of pulling the trigger on audio-gd's discreet HP amp to see if it's better than my LD MKV. Then I'll have no opamps in the chain.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, the Sun was free with the Earth last month. I'm thinking of pulling the trigger on audio-gd's discreet HP amp to see if it's better than my LD MKV. Then I'll have no opamps in the chain._

 

That little amp looks pretty good, true enough about the freebies....The problem with coloring an HDAM for me is ,nearly all my serious audio gear is already tube from start to finish (in 3 out 4 systems) so I tend to lean toward neutral where digital is concerned, then let the pre and amp give me the tube flavor...too much tube ruins it for me...it's tough to explain exactly.....

 Peete.


----------



## liquid steel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How long ago did he (supposedly) send it ? Might be still in transit...I had a tube shipment get lost...then it showed a month later....no reason could be given for the huge delay (it had a tracking number and was sent expedited from the US to Can)....weird Postal black hole exists I tell you ...it exists 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

I actually ordered a OPA627 pair, and he said he'd toss in the converter for $5 extra (basically saving me the $10 shipping). Sent the money (including the additional), waited a week and a half...

 opamps showed up. No PCB converter. Sent him a pic of what he sent... he said something like 'My memory says I sent the PCB. Perhaps I shall ship another'


 Just my luck. Nearing a month with a dead amp sitting on my desk.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *liquid steel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I actually ordered a OPA627 pair, and he said he'd toss in the converter for $5 extra (basically saving me the $10 shipping). Sent the money (including the additional), waited a week and a half...

 opamps showed up. No PCB converter. Sent him a pic of what he sent... he said something like 'My memory says I sent the PCB. Perhaps I shall ship another'


 Just my luck. Nearing a month with a dead amp sitting on my desk._

 

That's a bummer..

 That's just plain odd if you ordered this stuff all at the same time......doesn't seem right to me...I wonder why this guy is playing head games with you ?

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

CC or AP,S-Man....it occurred to me earlier this evening that the custom extension where I desoldered the wires from pins 4 and 8 of the male connector (that goes into the DAC section opamp dip) is an incomplete circuit is it not ? Wouldn't I need a jumper from pin 4 to pin 8 for the voltage to flow to the H/Amp section proper ?

 I held off on tonights test because I wanted to read more of the info you provided about grounding etc....

 It seems to me that the circuit V- V+ being left open on the pcb (even though the HDAM is getting what it needs voltage wise through the PS1) because of the custom extension is leaving that circuit unconnected.......Just a wild guess ....Does that make sense ?

 Peete.


----------



## godluvsxs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A lot of folks on here have already ordered the HDAM modules - we took the gamble on the Sun, and generally settled for the Earth. As a result, there will be less and less people around wanting to part with more money to try out the new HDAM module.

 Maybe you could buy it, and post your thoughts for the benefit of others?

 ~Phewl._

 

Just submitted MOON group buy order yesterday, hope that able to receive it by early next week. Me and CC will surely run through extensive comparison between all SUN, EARTH and MOON


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_CC or AP,S-Man....it occurred to me earlier this evening that the custom extension where I desoldered the wires from pins 4 and 8 of the male connector (that goes into the DAC section opamp dip) is an incomplete circuit is it not ? Wouldn't I need a jumper from pin 4 to pin 8 for the voltage to flow to the H/Amp section proper ?

 I held off on tonights test because I wanted to read more of the info you provided about grounding etc....

 It seems to me that the circuit V- V+ being left open on the pcb (even though the HDAM is getting what it needs voltage wise through the PS1) because of the custom extension is leaving that circuit unconnected.......Just a wild guess ....Does that make sense ?

 Peete._

 


 Um ................................
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I need to think about that for a bit, 'cos I'm not totally up to scratch with what you've done, PP. Plus I have Bowie and Fashion rockin' in my shell likes .. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Lovin' lovin' lovin' my 650s!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 Bugger me if the HDAMs and 650s haven't smoothed out even more! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Talk about 3D, Trev! Even Bowie. Zero and KHA singin' like canaries
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I should add, canaries with balls!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Now, I think the answer is maybe not, though pos a resistor to ground might be needed and whatever size that might be is not something I can answer right now. It will be to do with balancing the current draw that the HDAM would normally take ..... and yet .... 
 Have you tried running the DAC without doing anything to pins 4 and 8? As you say, the amp has it's own supply. I do suspect a resistor to ground might be needed. IMO I cannot see what harm could come from leaving the pins free though.


----------



## shaddix

You guys with spl meters, what's the loudest that you can get out of some 650s plugged into the headamp with the alps pot on the 4th notch. I seem to be able to put it between the 3rd and 4th notch and I don't hear any imbalance, but I want to know if I'm going to hurt my ears 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 oh these things are stock btw @_@


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shaddix* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You guys with spl meters, what's the loudest that you can get out of some 650s plugged into the headamp with the alps pot on the 4th notch. I seem to be able to put it between the 3rd and 4th notch and I don't hear any imbalance, but I want to know if I'm going to hurt my ears 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 oh these things are stock btw @_@_

 

It depends on the disc being played but for 90% of the music I play the level is around 9 o'clock on the volume pot at around 85-92 db, much more than that and it's too loud for me.


 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It depends on the disc being played but for 90% of the music I play the level is around 9 o'clock on the volume pot at around 85-92 db, much more than that and it's too loud for me.




 Peete._

 

PS 4 th notch on Alps pot,Foobar2000 FLAC --> TOSlink to Zero---> H/Amp out, C weighting, MFSL remaster of U2-Joshua Tree Track 3 (chorus)

 Left driver at 58-60 db (fast and slow response)
 Right driver at 58-60 db (same as above)

 Measurement taken right at driver edge in center. 1/4 in off sponge.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *godluvsxs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just submitted MOON group buy order yesterday, hope that able to receive it by early next week. Me and CC will surely run through extensive comparison between all SUN, EARTH and MOON
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

That was our mass order again to share out the shipping costs. Looks like we will be the first to review.

 u can also try the OPA earth / OPA Sun V2 in DAC and the OPA Moon in the headphone, which will be quite easy on power drain. For those who like tubey sounds and warm vocal, go for OPA moon.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_CC or AP,S-Man....it occurred to me earlier this evening that the custom extension where I desoldered the wires from pins 4 and 8 of the male connector (that goes into the DAC section opamp dip) is an incomplete circuit is it not ? Wouldn't I need a jumper from pin 4 to pin 8 for the voltage to flow to the H/Amp section proper ?

 I held off on tonights test because I wanted to read more of the info you provided about grounding etc....

 It seems to me that the circuit V- V+ being left open on the pcb (even though the HDAM is getting what it needs voltage wise through the PS1) because of the custom extension is leaving that circuit unconnected.......Just a wild guess ....Does that make sense ?

 Peete._

 

Hi,

 I thot u had already done that. What is happening now is the stock V+ and V- flows to the OPA socket, but cut off due to the new reg voltage bypass. So u definitely need 3 pairs jumpers to the OPA.

 Regarding the earth, as a power ground, it should not be connected to signal ground. But its kind of strange but a worthwhile try to common the new reg ground with the old reg ground.

 Have u started poking the multimeters on the dac? what is the reading are u getting on the ground of OPA Earth, V+ and V-.


----------



## | Scorpio |

I'm probably going to get the Zero soon, but I'm kinda of confused about all of the different upgrade versions. What is the recommended version to buy? I was planning on getting this version. Is that a good choice? I also need that USB/optical converter, and this version comes with it.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,

 I thot u had already done that. What is happening now is the stock V+ and V- flows to the OPA socket, but cut off due to the new reg voltage bypass. So u definitely need 3 pairs jumpers to the OPA.

 Regarding the earth, as a power ground, it should not be connected to signal ground. But its kind of strange but a worthwhile try to common the new reg ground with the old reg ground.

 Have u started poking the multimeter on the dac? what is the reading are u getting on the ground of OPA Earth, V+ and V-._

 

I hadn't done that at all CC, still postulating over the implementation and came to a realization this morning....I have a second chassis on the way...poked around the 3 pin power connection (from the main board to the H/Amp pcb, the black one) and got these readings from the DMM. -15.2 0 +15.2 VDC....seems to me the wisest and cleanest way to do this would be to remove this connection from the main board and this is where the new reg and tranny splices in...transfer the entire H/Amp and PS! assembly to the second chassis....this allows options of different types for better vol pot, better h/p jack, better quality wiring to and from the 2 x 4 connectors and lastly a new star grounding scheme for the entire unit. Both chassis will be bolted together to make it one larger unit. That's the idea that hit me this morning after chatting with S-Man via email...

 The reg tranny measures -14.97 0 +14.97 (ground point IEC or Chassis...reading O when testing across chassis gnd to reg board gnd). I hope I understood the measurements you originally asked for.

 I'm about to try this second method in the next 30 minutes so I'll report back what happens using 2 SUN modules (since they draw the most current).

 Ground point will be nearest chassis point on the H/Amp pcb...although if a ground loop develops I will place it on the IEC ground/chassis bolt. For now I'm using a separate IEC to power the reg tranny board for convenience.....

 Any possible problems with this arrangement please let me know beforehand CC.

 Thanks for taking the lead on the Moon module, I look forward to your impressions of it.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *| Scorpio |* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm probably going to get the Zero soon, but I'm kinda of confused about all of the different upgrade versions. What is the recommended version to buy? I was planning on getting this version. Is that a good choice? I also need that USB/optical converter, and this version comes with it._

 

See this link for a breakdown on all the variations available from the factory (so to speak)......

Introduction to the Zero DAC and Headphone amplifier. - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

 Thanks to CW for this info....

 Peete.


----------



## | Scorpio |

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_See this link for a breakdown on all the variations available from the factory (so to speak)......

Introduction to the Zero DAC and Headphone amplifier. - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

 Thanks to CW for this info....

 Peete._

 

So I guess I'll just email that Lawrence guy and tell him that I'm interested in ordering a Zero? Or is the version I linked to earlier the exact same thing?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *| Scorpio |* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I guess I'll just email that Lawrence guy and tell him that I'm interested in ordering a Zero? Or is the version I linked to earlier the exact same thing?_

 

The WSZ vendor only offers the 627 upgrade, for 10 bucks more LC offers the Head Fi members deal...meaning 627 in dac section, and 2 x LT1364 in the H/Amp section. LC is also the only vendor to offer the Alps pot upgrade.

 I thought that was pretty clear in CW's listing ?

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

CC, S-Man, AP

 The second method (outlined today) is a complete success......going to try dual SUN modules now. Sounds very very good with the LT1364's .....

 I realized I can still power the third (DAC HDAM) with the first method should I decide to (second set of outs on the PS1 reg board will allow this).....no ground loop with second IEC.....hmmmm, maybe I'll keep it this way....BTW I added a second ground wire to solder direct to the center pin of the 3 pin connector from the main - H/amp pcb (which is now unhooked). Seemed to make sense like that rather than leaving that open and using the chassis IEC ground wire(blue one with ring terminal). So it's direct in to the H/Amp 3 pin from the PS1.

 That PS1 reg/tranny has balls galore....well I'm off to test the 3 HDAM config....I'll let you guys know what happens...as in a longer term test to see if the bass is being leaned out again (I doubt that but you never know).

 Peete.

 PS Heres some action shots, the PS1 reg board and psu is pretty darn big as you can see. I have to add a second chassis, no other choice.
















 The 3 pin black power connector looks hooked up at H/Amp pcb but it is not. Yes I'm going to "Franken" the PS1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Here are pics with the Earth Modules (in H/Amp and DAC) with BA cap paks (jury still out on this tweak combination, they have 250 hours on them and need more time)











 Man I really need that additional chassis pretty badly


----------



## | Scorpio |

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The WSZ vendor only offers the 627 upgrade, for 10 bucks more LC offers the Head Fi members deal...meaning 627 in dac section, and 2 x LT1364 in the H/Amp section. LC is also the only vendor to offer the Alps pot upgrade.

 I thought that was pretty clear in CW's listing ?

 Peete._

 

Ok, thanks for the help.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *| Scorpio |* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, thanks for the help._

 

Your welcome Scorp !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

One last and very important observation from todays test, the main board analog regs are no longer burning hot, just slightly warm..... Probably a drop of 35 C at least.

 Interesting.....that's one of the aims I hoped to accomplish with this mod, taking the strain off those 2 regs was a primary consideration. Conversely the PS1 regs are hot, but not overly so. Much bigger heat sinks help greatly on the PS1 I think. 

 Other possibilities rattling around in my head but I'll save those for later ....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Cheers fellows !!!!!

 Peete.

 PS One quick additional note, it seems the H/Amp has got headroom a plenty, I can crank it almost to noon on the vol pot with no distortion at all (it's blasted loud but really makes the 650's hop on my head from the bass)....odd but cool. I'll put the LT1364's back in and see if that is the case with those as well....hmmmm

 Same with the LT1364's....lots of head room. Bass is there in spades (same as HDAMs, so no leaning out). I need to let this cook for a week or two than give a real hard look at it. Sure does sound good though.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_CC or AP,S-Man....it occurred to me earlier this evening that the custom extension where I desoldered the wires from pins 4 and 8 of the male connector (that goes into the DAC section opamp dip) is an incomplete circuit is it not ? Wouldn't I need a jumper from pin 4 to pin 8 for the voltage to flow to the H/Amp section proper ?

 I held off on tonights test because I wanted to read more of the info you provided about grounding etc....

 It seems to me that the circuit V- V+ being left open on the pcb (even though the HDAM is getting what it needs voltage wise through the PS1) because of the custom extension is leaving that circuit unconnected.......Just a wild guess ....Does that make sense ?

 Peete._

 

It shouldn't hurt it Peete. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just leave the V+ and V- unconnected, don't jumper them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 --Rich


----------



## shaddix

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PS 4 th notch on Alps pot,Foobar2000 FLAC --> TOSlink to Zero---> H/Amp out, C weighting, MFSL remaster of U2-Joshua Tree Track 3 (chorus)

 Left driver at 58-60 db (fast and slow response)
 Right driver at 58-60 db (same as above)

 Measurement taken right at driver edge in center. 1/4 in off sponge._

 






 thank you so much 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hopefully I will not blow up my ears then ^_^b

 Also my left driver has a really big dip around 8400hz @_@; either that or my ears are deaf at that frequency @_@;;;;;

 I think I am just deaf at that freq with my left ear lol, I can hear it fine with my right <.<


----------



## Ogglethorpe

Heh Pete,

 After looking at your pictures I notice you didn't snip those caps on the amp board. I've been waiting for your kit to be released before I do any serious modifications but I was just wondering why - I thought the consensus so far was that was a worthwhile mod to do. Or perhaps I've got things mixed up!?!?!

 Anyways, I just got my HDAMS and plugged the SUN in first. I believe it's v2 as it's got the caps on them but I'm not sure how I can be certain. I have to say, I do like it a lot better than the 627's I had in there before. But I am not at all qualified to be telling people what sounds better so take it for what it's worth!

 Thanks.


----------



## trab

Does anybody have Zero Dac + Grado 325i?

 What're your impressions?


----------



## bundee1

I got my zero today from ebay seller wsz0304. here are some quick impressions:

 build: 
 pretty solid and much heavier than I thought. no rough edges but I still haven't opened it up to inspect the guts. arrived in 10 days, single boxed wrapped in bubblwrap

 speakers jmlabs chorus 706
 amp winsome labs mouse
 source sb3
 included toslink cable

 dac sound:
 slight sibilance, soundstage is adequate but not great, bass is ok. the sound is very reflective of the recording but most of the time vocals are centered and a little more prominent. there is a little grain but overall the sound is smooth, balanced and pleasing with some detail.

 preamp sound:
 channel imbalance until about 9 o'clock. vocals are much more emphasized than the rest of the music.

 hopefully burn in improves everything. I hope this helps.


----------



## dario

Peete you tried also a configuration with Earth in dac and 2x Sun in the amp?
 If yes, what you think?


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hadn't done that at all CC, still postulating over the implementation and came to a realization this morning....I have a second chassis on the way...poked around the 3 pin power connection (from the main board to the H/Amp pcb, the black one) and got these readings from the DMM. -15.2 0 +15.2 VDC....seems to me the wisest and cleanest way to do this would be to remove this connection from the main board and this is where the new reg and tranny splices in...transfer the entire H/Amp and PS! assembly to the second chassis....this allows options of different types for better vol pot, better h/p jack, better quality wiring to and from the 2 x 4 connectors and lastly a new star grounding scheme for the entire unit. Both chassis will be bolted together to make it one larger unit. That's the idea that hit me this morning after chatting with S-Man via email...

 The reg tranny measures -14.97 0 +14.97 (ground point IEC or Chassis...reading O when testing across chassis gnd to reg board gnd). I hope I understood the measurements you originally asked for.

 I'm about to try this second method in the next 30 minutes so I'll report back what happens using 2 SUN modules (since they draw the most current).

 Ground point will be nearest chassis point on the H/Amp pcb...although if a ground loop develops I will place it on the IEC ground/chassis bolt. For now I'm using a separate IEC to power the reg tranny board for convenience.....

 Any possible problems with this arrangement please let me know beforehand CC.

 Thanks for taking the lead on the Moon module, I look forward to your impressions of it.

 Peete._

 

 Oooh, I'm liking your thoughts there, PP.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Don't know if you're looked at my last email yet, but that's exactly the sort of preference I had too. great minds, eh?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ogglethorpe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Heh Pete,

 After looking at your pictures I notice you didn't snip those caps on the amp board. I've been waiting for your kit to be released before I do any serious modifications but I was just wondering why - I thought the consensus so far was that was a worthwhile mod to do. Or perhaps I've got things mixed up!?!?!

 Anyways, I just got my HDAMS and plugged the SUN in first. I believe it's v2 as it's got the caps on them but I'm not sure how I can be certain. I have to say, I do like it a lot better than the 627's I had in there before. But I am not at all qualified to be telling people what sounds better so take it for what it's worth!

 Thanks._

 

Hi Oggy !!! (Slap Shot is a great movie BTW)

 Actually all I did was snip one leg (so they are out of the circuit), sorry about that, I should have mentioned that today.

 The date for the release of the kit will be announced tomorrow morning, so it's not long now....had a couple of lengthy delays that couldn't be helped. I'm dying to get this kit out there...it's a really great upgrade for the Zero community and quite Frankly I'm sick of looking at all the parts and want them out of here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I need the extra room 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dario* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Peete you tried also a configuration with Earth in dac and 2x Sun in the amp?
 If yes, what you think?_

 

It's pretty lively but I can't stand colored opamps/HDAMs...so that's just my personal preference. The LT1364's held their own quite well with either type of HDAM in this position (H/Amp). They are damn good opamps !!! 

 I have the all earth module Frankie going right now. I'm liking it, but the PS1 board needs some tweaking (8 parts need to added 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). I'm doing that tomorrow among other things...

 I need to give it a little time Dario, before declaring anything concrete.

 I do know one thing the earlier problem is gone.......(the stock PSU being overtaxed with 3 HDAMs). Wow it's been a busy day today.....


 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got my zero today from ebay seller wsz0304. here are some quick impressions:

 build: 
 pretty solid and much heavier than I thought. no rough edges but I still haven't opened it up to inspect the guts. arrived in 10 days, single boxed wrapped in bubblwrap

 speakers jmlabs chorus 706
 amp winsome labs mouse
 source sb3
 included toslink cable

 dac sound:
 slight sibilance, soundstage is adequate but not great, bass is ok. the sound is very reflective of the recording but most of the time vocals are centered and a little more prominent. there is a little grain but overall the sound is smooth, balanced and pleasing with some detail.

 preamp sound:
 channel imbalance until about 9 o'clock. vocals are much more emphasized than the rest of the music.

 hopefully burn in improves everything. I hope this helps._

 

Congrats Bundee1 !!!

 The Zero will change quite a bit over the next 100 hours. 

 Enjoy the tunes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Sganzerla

I don't know if it interests anyone but I'll pass my impressions of this product too. This is from a guy who has no pratical knowledge about the DACs and amps in the market, so keep this in mind if you're going to read. This was my first big step in audio.

 My Zero configuration is HDAM + 2xLT1364. After it arrived I bought a simple Acoustic Research coaxial digital cable to connect it to my Asus P5K-SE motherboard - Asio4All.

 First thing I've noticed after powering ON was little more detail in music, more open/natural sound and the less bloomy lows. After 12 hours it was a little better.

 After 40/50 hours the bass begin to appear, it got tighter and highs were smoother and even more natural. A little before I've made the caps snip modification. Here I was thinking that the sound was impressive, never tought I could reach this with so "little" money. Really really good.

 Now there is 60/70 hours on it and OMG suddenly the bass REALLY appeared (and I was thinking it got better before!?), the highs got SMOOTHER, really smoother, cymbals (I think this is the right word for this piece of instrument in English) begin to sound soft!!! Soundstage improved A LOT too.

 Many music I tought were crap recorded got so much better I can't still believe this! Some "harsh sounds" now are spaced, with instruments with defined places. Some music looks like have layers of distant sounds, you can hear some far and others even farther! Music that had vocals smashed with instruments now sound so separated... voice in front of the rest... right in your face!

 By the way I'm using K701 with more than 800 hours.

 Interestingly some songs I tought were very good, sounds virtually the same, of course cleaner, detailed, smoother, but the same.

 I don't know how much of my impression is due to burn in of the DAC, the combination of DAC + cable, or placebo effect, but I can for sure say that when I tought of building a Hi Fi system for my PC, I didn't have in mind that I could get at the quality I'm hearing now. And there are many things I have to buy before it is complete:

 - Better energy cables, will start with Volex.
 - Better coaxial cables, don't know what to do yet. Maybe Tributaries Silver Series if that promotion reappear.
 - Better amp. Thinking of either LD MKV or MKIII with a pair of different tubes.
 - Good RCA cables, still don't know wich too...

 Now I'm reaching 100 hours with this DAC, things are still getting better, bass looks stronger than before. The problem is I can't leave the headphones to go to bed.


----------



## Currawong

Sganzerla: Definitely look into getting a good amp that has synergy with K701s, it will make all the difference.

 Snipping those caps on the output opens up the top end more and I felt tightened up the bass a bit too.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't know if it interests anyone but I'll pass my impressions of this product too. This is from a guy who has no pratical knowledge about the DACs and amps in the market, so keep this in mind if you're going to read. This was my first big step in audio.

 My Zero configuration is HDAM + 2xLT1364. After it arrived I bought a simple Acoustic Research coaxial digital cable to connect it to my Asus P5K-SE motherboard - Asio4All.

 First thing I've noticed after powering ON was little more detail in music, more open/natural sound and the less bloomy lows. After 12 hours it was a little better.

 After 40/50 hours the bass begin to appear, it got tighter and highs were smoother and even more natural. A little before I've made the caps snip modification. Here I was thinking that the sound was impressive, never tought I could reach this with so "little" money. Really really good.

 Now there is 60/70 hours on it and OMG suddenly the bass REALLY appeared (and I was thinking it got better before!?), the highs got SMOOTHER, really smoother, cymbals (I think this is the right word for this piece of instrument in English) begin to sound soft!!! Soundstage improved A LOT too.

 Many music I tought were crap recorded got so much better I can't still believe this! Some "harsh sounds" now are spaced, with instruments with defined places. Some music looks like have layers of distant sounds, you can hear some far and others even farther! Music that had vocals smashed with instruments now sound so separated... voice in front of the rest... right in your face!

 By the way I'm using K701 with more than 800 hours.

 Interestingly some songs I tought were very good, sounds virtually the same, of course cleaner, detailed, smoother, but the same.

 I don't know how much of my impression is due to burn in of the DAC, the combination of DAC + cable, or placebo effect, but I can for sure say that when I tought of building a Hi Fi system for my PC, I didn't have in mind that I could get at the quality I'm hearing now. And there are many things I have to buy before it is complete:

 - Better energy cables, will start with Volex.
 - Better coaxial cables, don't know what to do yet. Maybe Tributaries Silver Series if that promotion reappear.
 - Better amp. Thinking of either LD MKV or MKIII with a pair of different tubes.
 - Good RCA cables, still don't know wich too...

 Now I'm reaching 100 hours with this DAC, things are still getting better, bass looks stronger than before. The problem is I can't leave the headphones to go to bed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 You've nailed it S.....you've got good ears man !!!! It's the process of the HDAM/DAC/Hamp burning in. It takes time to settle. No placebo involved, this is what almost all Zero owners report (except Andrea, LOL) with the HDAM, myself included 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Very good job on the mini review !!!

 One thing of note, this set up allows you see into the music as well as hear it. You identified that relationship between the artist and the recording/mix down engineer and the groups producer for that CD/LP to a T when you described depth and layering cues. It's doubly fascinating to note the layering and depth once you can actually pick it all out on 99% of everything you play. It never gets boring IMHO.


 Theres been many a night where I've listened and couldn't stop.....the sun rose in the morning and there I was, still toe tapping away...bleery eyed but loving it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't know if it interests anyone but I'll pass my impressions of this product too. This is from a guy who has no pratical knowledge about the DACs and amps in the market, so keep this in mind if you're going to read. This was my first big step in audio.

 My Zero configuration is HDAM + 2xLT1364. After it arrived I bought a simple Acoustic Research coaxial digital cable to connect it to my Asus P5K-SE motherboard - Asio4All.

 First thing I've noticed after powering ON was little more detail in music, more open/natural sound and the less bloomy lows. After 12 hours it was a little better.

 After 40/50 hours the bass begin to appear, it got tighter and highs were smoother and even more natural. A little before I've made the caps snip modification. Here I was thinking that the sound was impressive, never tought I could reach this with so "little" money. Really really good.

 Now there is 60/70 hours on it and OMG suddenly the bass REALLY appeared (and I was thinking it got better before!?), the highs got SMOOTHER, really smoother, cymbals (I think this is the right word for this piece of instrument in English) begin to sound soft!!! Soundstage improved A LOT too.

 Many music I tought were crap recorded got so much better I can't still believe this! Some "harsh sounds" now are spaced, with instruments with defined places. Some music looks like have layers of distant sounds, you can hear some far and others even farther! Music that had vocals smashed with instruments now sound so separated... voice in front of the rest... right in your face!

 By the way I'm using K701 with more than 800 hours.

 Interestingly some songs I tought were very good, sounds virtually the same, of course cleaner, detailed, smoother, but the same.

 I don't know how much of my impression is due to burn in of the DAC, the combination of DAC + cable, or placebo effect, but I can for sure say that when I tought of building a Hi Fi system for my PC, I didn't have in mind that I could get at the quality I'm hearing now. And there are many things I have to buy before it is complete:

 - Better energy cables, will start with Volex.
 - Better coaxial cables, don't know what to do yet. Maybe Tributaries Silver Series if that promotion reappear.
 - Better amp. Thinking of either LD MKV or MKIII with a pair of different tubes.
 - Good RCA cables, still don't know wich too...

 Now I'm reaching 100 hours with this DAC, things are still getting better, bass looks stronger than before. The problem is I can't leave the headphones to go to bed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ah yes, Sganzerla, how I can relate!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I haven't been to bed earlier than 1AM for the last two nights for exactly the same reasons, I have to force myself to put the 650s away for the night! Isn't life grand!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 And yes, at that magic 50 hour mark a great transformation comes over the electronics, especially the OPA Earth. I was simply flabbergasted at that time. It gets even better and it's STILL getting better, especially as my three week old Senn 650s are refining further. I only use the Zero's amp for YouTube clips and other downloads, it's good but my KHA is significantly better in all areas, so you have much to look forward to yet with an external amp. PP's work on the separate power supply for the Zero's amp though, shows there's a lot more life in it yet! Something I may follow up on myself one day. 
 I too could never have imagined how good the Zero would become as the last few weeks have gone by. I'm a very happy little sand boy! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 S-Man
 BTW, totally agree on the cymbals and other percussion, simply magic. The sheer quality of the bass is better than anything I've ever had in 35 years of audio! Think the 650s might have something to do with that, along with a transparent head amp. VERY addictive!


----------



## ScottieB

Haha Peete every time I See photos of your "cap mod" on your Earth HDAMS - those big green monsters make me crack up laughing... just so... unwieldy! Ha love it - you are a step or four crazier than me, my friend  Thanks for all the work and sharing your insanity!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Haha Peete every time I See photos of your "cap mod" on your Earth HDAMS - those big green monsters make me crack up laughing... just so... unwieldy! Ha love it - you are a step or four crazier than me, my friend  Thanks for all the work and sharing your insanity!_

 

My pleasure and thanks Scottie.......I think of the scene where Dr Frankenstein proclaims the monster is alive in the original 1931 B&W film...look at his face....looks battier than a fruitcake...that's what I looked like today when I slapped those monster cap pak'd Earth modules into the FrankenZero and hit the power switch.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hey...... no sparks, no smoke, no burning smell.......IT'S ALIVE 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 Cheers Felllow tweak junkies 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


 PS I have a few more tricks up my sleeve for Frankie........need that dang chassis though.....

 Oh ...here are some massive caps...check these out...even I'm intimidated by these buggers.....OMG is what I said when I opened the box. The other three types and values seen in the pic (left to right) are 2.2uf 250V PLIO, 1uf 250V PIO, 0.015uf 200V T1 Teflon.







 Those nearly 4in big bastards are PLIO 1uf 500V caps for my tube pre upgrade/mod. I don't know how I'm going to shoehorn in 2 of those on the back end and two in the front end with Teflon bypass caps which are also huge (but not as big as those things). I'll figure out a way though !!!!

 I've never seen anything like these....crazy Russians 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thank god for crazy Ivan I say


----------



## viscosity

hey pete. i actually just got my K75-10 1uf 250v caps today.. and im ready to do this cap mod. looking at the capacitor is the side engraved with the small oval negative? 

 also where on the opa-earth are the v- and v+ points?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *viscosity* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey pete. i actually just got my K75-10 1uf 250v caps today.. and im ready to do this cap mod. looking at the capacitor is the side engraved with the small oval negative? 

 also where on the opa-earth are the v- and v+ points?_

 

Hi V,

 The PLIO's (K75-10's) are non polarized, meaning you don't have to worry which direction they go.

 Here's a pin diagram from Burson Audio. Just remember when you look at the pins on the bottom of the module, the order is reversed in a mirror image.

 You'll see what I'm talking about when you try it out for yourself. Here's the pic






 The cap is connected parallel across pins 4 and 8. 

 Heres a second pic showing how I soldered the cap pak onto an Earth module's corresponding pin pads ( 4 is -V, 8 is +V)






 Note the reverse mirror image to the BA diagram.

*It takes quite a while for this tweak to mature so stick with it*

 Hope this answers your question.

 Peete.


----------



## viscosity

thanks, yea i used that picture as reference.. its done and looks like a friggin jetpack on the opaearth.. heh


----------



## dacavalcante

Well guys, I have to say I fell pretty comfortable with this setup, I just made one A/B with LT1364... well SUN is really SUN, it got all those shiny LEDs and in deed it sounds more bright, like it brought more life into music.... well....... I really don't think it is a bad aspect and it do fill my taste for music speacially with 650..... in fact it's like a little bit of veil is taken out...
 Like I'm a bass maniac I miss some kick on it.... maybe PP already have it solved.

 Still with or without SUN I find trable to be a little harsh... but yet, my 650 isn't fully burned... maybe 170 hours by now....

 It's just a little sad to know SUNs modules will soon be replaced by Mk3 or something else....

 Earth must be around 65hours and sun around 50hours.

 But in order to make a clear A/B I have to elect 3 or 4 musics to compare, and spending some time doing that..... maybe I'll do a blind test between them, by asking a friend to handle player and op-amps switch......


----------



## seaice

Hi all, I have bought the Zero DAC. The sound is very good (especially with OPA 627 in the DAC section). But I have several problems: 

 1. Strange smell.
 2. Hum and little vibration.
 3. The unit is quite hot (more than I expected).

 I have found several people here having similar problems but I am not sure about the solution. The sound is fantastic so far... Should I care about 1-3? The postage from here to China is almost as high as a new Zero unit so I would really appreciate any help. Thanks in advance.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *seaice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi all, I have bought the Zero DAC. The sound is very good (especially with OPA 627 in the DAC section). But I have several problems: 

 1. Strange smell.
 2. Hum and little vibration.
 3. The unit is quite hot (more than I expected).

 I have found several people here having similar problems but I am not sure about the solution. The sound is fantastic so far... Should I care about 1-3? The postage from here to China is almost as high as a new Zero unit so I would really appreciate any help. Thanks in advance._

 

Hi seaice, no mate, don't worry about any of them. The heat is pretty normal, the smell of burning-in electronics is also normal, just breathe it in and go aaaahh, lovely. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It'll stay like that for quite a while. Hum is from the transformer, some of us have added some extra padding underneath it, which helps a little. It doesn't affect the sound at all. Just take in another deep breath of cooking electronics and relax with it. Sound will improve a lot as the days go by, especially after 50 hours or so. Glad you like it so far, there's more to come! Cheers, S-Man


----------



## seaice

Thanks sennsay. I have the Zero more than two weeks (more than 100 hours played) with 627 in the DAC section and LM4562 for headphones. It is really VERY good for the price (both - the DAC and the h-amp). I am just considering the Earth or other HDAM.


----------



## dario

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's pretty lively but I can't stand colored opamps/HDAMs...so that's just my personal preference. The LT1364's held their own quite well with either type of HDAM in this position (H/Amp). They are damn good opamps !!! 

 I have the all earth module Frankie going right now. I'm liking it, but the PS1 board needs some tweaking (8 parts need to added 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). I'm doing that tomorrow among other things...

 I need to give it a little time Dario, before declaring anything concrete.

 I do know one thing the earlier problem is gone.......(the stock PSU being overtaxed with 3 HDAMs). Wow it's been a busy day today.....


 Peete._

 

Ok, I undertstand Peete, thanks for your "effort" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well guys, I have to say I fell pretty comfortable with this setup, I just made one A/B with LT1364... well SUN is really SUN, it got all those shiny LEDs and in deed it sounds more bright, like it brought more life into music.... well....... I really don't think it is a bad aspect and it do fill my taste for music speacially with 650..... in fact it's like a little bit of veil is taken out...
 Like I'm a bass maniac I miss some kick on it.... maybe PP already have it solved.

 Still with or without SUN I find trable to be a little harsh... but yet, my 650 isn't fully burned... maybe 170 hours by now....

 It's just a little sad to know SUNs modules will soon be replaced by Mk3 or something else....

 Earth must be around 65hours and sun around 50hours.

 But in order to make a clear A/B I have to elect 3 or 4 musics to compare, and spending some time doing that..... maybe I'll do a blind test between them, by asking a friend to handle player and op-amps switch...... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Finally than I must try the Sun, I think I will like it maybe with earth in the dac (I can also make 3 sun configuration), we will see, for now my zero is coming from HK, I hope no delay for the milk stories...


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *seaice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks sennsay. I have the Zero more than two weeks (more than 100 hours played) with 627 in the DAC section and LM4562 for headphones. It is really VERY good for the price (both - the DAC and the h-amp). I am just considering the Earth or other HDAM._

 

Cool. The HDAMs really take it to a whole new level, take your pick to give you the sound you like. I adore the Earth cos the Sun is too toppy for my KHA external amp, though both are dynamite in their own ways. 
 I am quite ecstatic with what is flowing into my Senns.


----------



## seaice

And what is the difference between the Earth and opa627 in the DAC section? What is the improvement? Is Earth really worth for almost USD60 (incl. shipping)? I am sure I will try one, but I would like to know... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have Little Dot MKV (and want to buy the LD MKIVse)... Headphones: Senn 580/650 and AKG K701. My music taste is very wide


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *seaice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And what is the difference between the Earth and opa627 in the DAC section? What is the improvement? Is Earth really worth for almost USD60 (incl. shipping)? I am sure I will try one, but I would like to know... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have Little Dot MKV (and want to buy the LD MKIVse)... Headphones: Senn 580/650 and AKG K701. My music taste is very wide 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

IMHO worth every cent and much more! Big improvements in transparency and dynamics top to bottom. Imaging becomes more solid and 3D and basically everything takes on a reality that IMO leaves most op-amps I've heard, which is quite a few, far behind. Not to say that there aren't any fine op-amps out there - for instance the LT1364s are jolly good and there are others, in fact Prickely Pete has had some fine results with re-powering the amp section of the Zero and it's 1364s. I'm sure you'll get to read about it! In saying that, what the HDAMs bring is a more complete picture of the musical event, real musicians and real instruments as compared to a good simulcrum of the event. They allow a greater musical truth. What HDAM does for percussive instruments is simply stunning! It's a different experience altogether. I'm sure there are many out there who would agree with me and the odd one who wouldn't. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You're in for some fun. And yes, I still enjoy listening to the 1364s in the Zero's amp, especially with the OPA Earth ahead of it in the DAC. 
 seaice, I paid $120 NZD for my HDAMs, half the price again for my Zero and I wouldn't think twice about doing it again! The second Earth is in KHA and didn't _that_ just transform it! To me, worth every cent.


----------



## ccschua

I was informed the silver cable to the RCA needs some time fully burn. talking about 0.3mm of pure silver cable connecting to the RCA female plug that is renewed. At the end, I like the sound alot, really wide soundstage and transparent. lots of potential for zero dac to perform


----------



## hiisinux

Hum i could not find any Measurements of this dac with quick googling.

 Anyone has done rmaa to this dac? esp intrested in headphones out dealing 33 ohm-600ohm loads.


----------



## Steve The Egg

Can I use this as an amp for my record player too?

 I have a Sony PS-LX250H.


----------



## AudioPhewl

No. There are only digital inputs on the unit, no analogue ones.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## bundee1

you would need a phono preamp or an in integrated amp with a phono input.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

*October 10th, 2008**

**Kit sales pending approval of Head Fi Administration under Member Rules of Conduct*

 Limited numbers of kits will be available. Details will be announced in the DIY Thread to be created on Oct 9th. 

 Please no PM's to me until the 9th. Those that have reserved and committed to the pre-sale kits (5 of them) will be contacted before the 9th with all details, pricing etc....

 Thanks for being patient !!!

 Best Regards to all !!!!!

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I've been a busy boy today .......here a some pics of the H/Amp revamp and total mod completed today and currently being tested (it's working great so far)






 This pic shows stock 47uf 10V swapped for Elna Silmic II 47uf 35V x 2

 2 x 330uf 25V Panasonic FC's swapped for 2 x Nichicon PW 1500uf 25V







 Another angle of the same.

 Next up is additional PIO bypass caps for the 8 1000uf Nichicon HE caps on the PS1 reg board (8 x .047uf 160V PIO)

 The H/Amp by pass cap additions are for the new Elna and Nichicon caps swapped in (all on the H/Amp are .1uf 160V PIO)






 Close up of PS1 underside (pithy solder point...I've worn out another tip on the soldering iron, that's 2 now in 3 weeks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)






 This last shot shows the bypass caps on both pcbs.

 It was very tricky trying to squeeze 4 more bypass caps onto that H/Amp pcb, as you may be able to see I stacked 2 bypass caps for the Elna 47uf caps off to the side where there is space. A clever solution that works very well.


 I have the whole thing up and running right now...it's deathly quiet even at full volume. SQ initially is quite good....many many hours will need to pass before I can say for sure if all this has been worth the money and effort. It follows the same principles as most electronics guides, upgrade the power supply and filter section and you'll get a great result every time....well that remains to be seen. Although I'm confident it will be of some improvement over stock. The only possible upgrade I can see beyond this is better regs....say LM337 and LM1117T...or something else compatible with the stock units. I'll email LC and ask what a good replacement might be for these.

 As they always say hearing is believing. I'm going to sit back for a while now and enjoy some good tunes and maybe a beer. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cheers guys !!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## viscosity

whats the benefit of bypass caps?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *viscosity* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_whats the benefit of bypass caps?_

 

Better at filtering hi freq hash, plus allow better hi end frequency response with electrolytic caps in the audio signal path. Electrolytic caps are great at passing bass and mids without too much trouble. Hi frequencies OTOH are rolled off and masked. Add the pio, poly film , hi quality bypass and those problems are removed. Lowers ESR slightly which is always a good thing. All IMHO of course. There is still controversy over this practice as to it's benefits overall. IMO the benefits are obvious when you put the cans on. Again IMO.

 Google it...with this query..."bypassing electrolytic caps with film and foil types"

 Lots and lots of theory, literature, etc on this practice.

 Peete.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Better at filtering hi freq hash, plus allow better hi end frequency response with electrolytic caps in the audio signal path. Electrolytic caps are great at passing bass and mids without too much trouble. Hi frequencies OTOH are rolled off and masked. Add the pio, poly film , hi quality bypass and those problems are removed. Lowers ESR slightly which is always a good thing. All IMHO of course. There is still controversy over this practice as to it's benefits overall. IMO the benefits are obvious when you put the cans on. Again IMO.

 Google it...with this query..."bypassing electrolytic caps with film and foil types"

 Lots and lots of theory, literature, etc on this practice.

 Peete._

 


 Oh well done lad! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 You deserve that beer. I woke up this morning - only about an hour ago it was 8:50 AM - wondering that if I remove the power to the Zero's amp, will I be able to use the Zero still in Pre-amp mode with all power going to the HDAM. 
 Well, yes, all power goes to the HDAM alright except that it doesn't allow for use of the Pre-out. Drat! However, it doesn't mean that it won't work into an ext pre-amp in DAC out mode. Unfortunately I don't have a circuit diagram, so I cannot find out why an unpowered amp effects the pre-out function. My understanding of that is a bit loose at the moment. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I haven't yet tried the idea with a pre-amp yet. Maybe it's not worth it sonically, as there is now an extra set of electronics in the path, but it would at least show me if there is a SQ difference/improvement with all the grunt going to the HDAM. Or not.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Ordered all the Dale resistors and a few Cerafines last night for KHA, PP. Lots of play time coming up!


----------



## sennsay

BTW, for those of you who might be interested in building your own external headphone amp, here is an address on ebay that not only has supplies of some good caps and tubes, but also has a couple of interesting amp kits. I am intrigued by the Class A amp that uses a 5534AN in the input stage, crying out for an Earth HDAM! $20 for the kit + more for a power supply and trannie, all of which are available from the seller. There is another $40 kit as well, all on page 2 of the address below. They could be good value as a project. Cheers, S-Man
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




eBay Store - tubeshunter: KIT: STEREO 6DJ8 ECC88 6922 E88CC SRPP TUBE PREAMPLIFIER KIT

 Just gone back and had another look at it and it's dual mono! So 2 HDAMs are needed ....... oh .. I can feel my soldering hand getting extremely twitchy ..... oooooohh help PP, send me that kit quick!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh well done lad! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You deserve that beer. I woke up this morning - only about an hour ago it was 8:50 AM - wondering that if I remove the power to the Zero's amp, will I be able to use the Zero still in Pre-amp mode with all power going to the HDAM. 
 Well, yes, all power goes to the HDAM alright except that it doesn't allow for use of the Pre-out. Drat! However, it doesn't mean that it won't work into an ext pre-amp in DAC out mode. Unfortunately I don't have a circuit diagram, so I cannot find out why an unpowered amp effects the pre-out function. My understanding of that is a bit loose at the moment. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I haven't yet tried the idea with a pre-amp yet. Maybe it's not worth it sonically, as there is now an extra set of electronics in the path, but it would at least show me if there is a SQ difference/improvement with all the grunt going to the HDAM. Or not.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Ordered all the Dale resistors and a few Cerafines last night for KHA, PP. Lots of play time coming up! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hi S-Man,

 Thanks bro !!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 From my limited understanding of the Zero's design I believe the pre amp function is as follows. The DAC section is a fixed gain circuit with the HDAM simply the amplifier to that unity/line level signal. Switch in the H/Amp and those opamps are now the gain section. The 2 x 4 shielded pairs between the pcbs pretty much confirms it IMHO. I see what your trying to do. Lampizator's work around for this problem is to go passive by lifting the signal before the DAC HDAM section (Lift the neg leg of 2 of the 4 47uf 10V Silmics...as your tap point) Look it up on his site...great tweak monkey that guy is and funny as hell 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Once you pull the power from the H/amp board you have nothing to apply gain to the line level signal generated by the DAC section. It's in pure DAC mode at that point but is tied to the H/Amp output regardless of setting (engaged or not). So without power applied to H/Amp the Zero no workie 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I haven't traced the circuit and can't until I do the rebuild with the new chassis.

 Does that make sense ?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW, for those of you who might be interested in building your own external headphone amp, here is an address on ebay that not only has supplies of some good caps and tubes, but also has a couple of interesting amp kits. I am intrigued by the Class A amp that uses a 5534AN in the input stage, crying out for an Earth HDAM! $20 for the kit + more for a power supply and trannie, all of which are available from the seller. There is another $40 kit as well, all on page 2 of the address below. They could be good value as a project. Cheers, S-Man
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




eBay Store - tubeshunter: KIT: STEREO 6DJ8 ECC88 6922 E88CC SRPP TUBE PREAMPLIFIER KIT

 Just gone back and had another look at it and it's dual mono! So 2 HDAMs are needed ....... oh .. I can feel my soldering hand getting extremely twitchy ..... oooooohh help PP, send me that kit quick!_

 

S-Man,

 I love that place...check out DIY Gene as well on eBay 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They have loads of kits.......I look there at least once a week. Another great site is DIY Hi Fi Supply.

 Man I love DIY stuff.....it's the only way I can afford this level of quality on a beer budget. !!!


 Peete.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi S-Man,

 Thanks bro !!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 From my limited understanding of the Zero's design I believe the pre amp function is as follows. The DAC section is a fixed gain circuit with the HDAM simply the amplifier to that unity/line level signal. Switch in the H/Amp and those opamps are now the gain section. The 2 x 4 shielded pairs between the pcbs pretty much confirms it IMHO. I see what your trying to do. Lampizator's work around for this problem is to go passive by lifting the signal before the DAC HDAM section (Lift the neg leg of 2 of the 4 47uf 10V Silmics...as your tap point) Look it up on his site...great tweak monkey that guy is and funny as hell 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Once you pull the power from the H/amp board you have nothing to apply gain to the line level signal generated by the DAC section. It's in pure DAC mode at that point but is tied to the H/Amp output regardless of setting (engaged or not). So without power applied to H/Amp the Zero no workie 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I haven't traced the circuit and can't until I do the rebuild with the new chassis.

 Does that make sense ?_

 

 Mmmm, I think I can get that. McBugger. (Scots technician). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I may still have to try it with a pre-amp when I get back from the Satdee mornin' markit. Need my own experience to prove it one way or t'other. 
 Had a look at that ebay site re the power supply, looks like only a +3~+20V supply, it has only a +V reg. It kinda looks like a dual +V supply, actually. S-Man


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mmmm, I think I can get that. McBugger. (Scots technician). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I may still have to try it with a pre-amp when I get back from the Satdee mornin' markit. Need my own experience to prove it one way or t'other. 
 Had a look at that ebay site re the power supply, looks like only a +3~+20V supply, it has only a +V reg. It kinda looks like a dual +V supply, actually. S-Man_

 

S-Man,

 I think I've managed to McBugger myself with that last explanation. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

It just hit me...........the 2 x 4 cables ...one is L channel + gnd and r channel + gnd out to the H/Amp. Simply take this signal straight into the KHA signal inputs with the outputs from the KHA back into the Zero pcb at the other 4 wire point connection near the DAC HDAM...voila...KHA Head amp,preamp/Zero combo.

 Is is that easy or have I missed something ?

 Peete.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It just hit me...........the 2 x 4 cables ...one is L channel + gnd and r channel + gnd out to the H/Amp. Simply take this signal straight into the KHA signal inputs with the outputs from the KHA back into the Zero pcb at the other 4 wire point connection near the DAC HDAM...voila...KHA Head amp,preamp/Zero combo.

 Is is that easy or have I missed something ?

 Peete._

 

Um, I think my head has just exploded over my lappy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Did you say that in Arabic?
 Obviously haven't had enough coffee today. Will make my way to the jug now and get some water on the boil. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ooo ooo ... I think I might have it ... almost have the right cogs in gear ...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Um, I think my head has just exploded over my lappy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Did you say that in Arabic?
 Obviously haven't had enough coffee today. Will make my way to the jug now and get some water on the boil. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ooo ooo ... I think I might have it ... almost have the right cogs in gear ..._

 

Sounds way more complicated than it actually is, check the dual runs (4 wires in each) of cable to the H/Amp in your Zero that run from the top right corner of the main pcb alongside the chassis, the H/Amp 3 wire power con is bundled with it about half way to the H/Amp pcb. 

 Does that help a bit ..sorry about the arabic...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sounds way more complicated than it actually is, check the dual runs (4 wires in each) of cable to the H/Amp in your Zero that run from the top right corner of the main pcb alongside the chassis, the H/Amp 3 wire power con is bundled with it about half way to the H/Amp pcb. 

 Does that help a bit ..sorry about the arabic...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Mate, MY THEORY WORKED! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have the Zero's amp disconnected and I have lovely sounds coming from my cans via the Trevor Lees pre-amp, using the Zero as a DAC out! WooHoo! Clean and clear, sounds a bit different but I've only just done it and lot's more listening need to be done. Dayam I love intuitive dreams!


----------



## ccschua

Just found out yesterday that connecting the earth wire of the OPA Earth to the RCA Earth give better sound Quality in terms accuracy.

 Small tweak but the difference is clear to my ears.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just found out yesterday that connecting the earth wire of the OPA Earth to the RCA Earth give better sound Quality in terms accuracy.

 Small tweak but the difference is clear to my ears._

 

Cool, ccs, I might give that a go tomorrow. Going to change to Gucci phonos anyway, so I might as well solder the cable in then.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mate, MY THEORY WORKED! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have the Zero's amp disconnected and I have lovely sounds coming from my cans via the Trevor Lees pre-amp, using the Zero as a DAC out! WooHoo! Clean and clear, sounds a bit different but I've only just done it and lot's more listening need to be done. Dayam I love intuitive dreams! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

What did you do...just pull the 3 wire power connection from the H/Amp pcb ?

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Hi CC,

 Thanks for that tip. I'll give that a try as well. 

 Should I tie the H/Amp HDAMs ground wires to analog out gnd point of the headphone jack ? Then do as you suggest for the dac HDAM.

 Seems to make sense that way although as always I could be wrong about that.

 Peete.


----------



## nsx_23

Is anybody here using their ZERO with AKG k601s? I'd be interested in some impressions.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cool, ccs, I might give that a go tomorrow. Going to change to Gucci phonos anyway, so I might as well solder the cable in then. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

As I am using fully tube amp for my speakers, I needed transparency and separation for my system. The silver 99.99 % 0.3mm cable and the gold plated RCA helps a lot.

 I connected 1 wire to RCA ground (they are 3 holes on the dac board. 1 for Left, right and the ground. ) Make sure the 3 wires poke through the PCB hole and then solder. solder both sides. Cut off excess wire. When solder, dont touch the tip to the PCB for too long (unless u have temperature control). My friend just fry his PCB and the whole ZERO DAC can not light up. When tightening the RCA female plug (use 2 nos of #11 wrench), make sure it is tight, not rotatable by hand. or else later when u unplug the wire is shorted. [I am long winded rite]

 After all this tweak, welcome to the slight improvement in terms of audio separation and transparency.

 I just left the earth wire twisted with the OPA earth in the air. I needed heat shrink once I settle using OPA Earth. or can u guys think of any better connection.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi CC,

 Thanks for that tip. I'll give that a try as well. 

 Should I tie the H/Amp HDAMs ground wires to analog out gnd point of the headphone jack ? Then do as you suggest for the dac HDAM.

 Seems to make sense that way although as always I could be wrong about that.

 Peete._

 

I think that would a good move. The ground point is the drain for the signal to return to "Earth' as soon as possible.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What did you do...just pull the 3 wire power connection from the H/Amp pcb ?

 Peete._

 

Yeah mate, switch off, pull wires, switch on, music time!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Can't use it that way without a pre-amp but I wanted to test my waking theory and bingo! 
 The analogue regs run barely even warm now. Be interesting to hear what you find doing that. I guess it may not make much diff overall, but I thought I heard cleaner top end dynamics. Worth a shot. S-Man


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mate, MY THEORY WORKED! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have the Zero's amp disconnected and I have lovely sounds coming from my cans via the Trevor Lees pre-amp, using the Zero as a DAC out! WooHoo! Clean and clear, sounds a bit different but I've only just done it and lot's more listening need to be done. Dayam I love intuitive dreams! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I did this a few days ago - pulled the plugs off the h-amp just to use it as a DAC and it works perfectly. I've been considering finding a smaller box to put just the DAC section in and de-solder the h-amp wires altogether, maybe even setting up a 2-box system, one box for the transformer, purely for fun.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just found out yesterday that connecting the earth wire of the OPA Earth to the RCA Earth give better sound Quality in terms accuracy.

 Small tweak but the difference is clear to my ears._

 

I might have to try this once I've got a better set of RCA sockets.


----------



## viscosity

dammmn.. i love this unit. makes my logitech speakers sing.... keep in mind that I bought these about 5 years ago for 200 bucks. it truely is all about the source.. cant wait to upgrade to some real hifi speakers

 I've also done the cap mod shown here. deeper bass, better seperation, and theyve only been in there a couple of days..


----------



## viscosity

btw I did some stencil art on my Zero.. maybe ill post it sometime...


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did this a few days ago - pulled the plugs off the h-amp just to use it as a DAC and it works perfectly. I've been considering finding a smaller box to put just the DAC section in and de-solder the h-amp wires altogether, maybe even setting up a 2-box system, one box for the transformer, purely for fun.



 I might have to try this once I've got a better set of RCA sockets._

 

Hi Currawong, have you had a good listen to see if it has become any greater in it's SQ? Now that the HDAM is getting all the power supply, it is this aspect that is the reason I wanted to do it; what might happen to this part of the DAC. 
 I haven't been able to spend much listening time since I did it, but the half hour or so I've had with it did seem to show cleaner top end dynamics, cymbal crashes etc. S-Man

 BTW, you had to use it with a pre-amp, right? The vol pot becomes inactive as a pre in itself? I got no sound using it as a pre-out.


----------



## ccschua

Here is some mod of the ZERO. Very interesting, talking about direct mod to the body of ZERO dac. details to come later, after we settle on the power mod on the ZERO. 






 just wonder if anyone here received the Sun V2 for a test. I will try to get the Sun V2 component and do a direct mod.


----------



## bundee1

any of you guys with the stock zero with opa 2607 notice the bass recede after 50hrs of burn in? The bass sounded a lot more present when I first got the zero. Does the bass return after more burn in?


----------



## oofie810

OT but does anyone know how I can "search" for the zero in the forums? I can't seem to search the word "zero".


----------



## dario

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oofie810* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OT but does anyone know how I can "search" for the zero in the forums? I can't seem to search the word "zero"._

 

use google

 zero site:URL SITE


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_any of you guys with the stock zero with opa 2607 notice the bass recede after 50hrs of burn in? The bass sounded a lot more present when I first got the zero. Does the bass return after more burn in?_

 

It comes and goes during burn in.....don't know why exactly.

 Once you get to 100 + hours it should settle down and be consistent. The stock opamps leave a lot to be desired though, but I suppose you already know this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here is some mod of the ZERO. Very interesting, talking about direct mod to the body of ZERO dac. details to come later, after we settle on the power mod on the ZERO. 






 just wonder if anyone here received the Sun V2 for a test. I will try to get the Sun V2 component and do a direct mod. 




_

 

Hi CC,

 Looks good so far 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The second shot of the Sun module, can you translate that if possible ? Looks as though they've changed 2 caps and resistor values for V2.

 I'd be willing to mod my V1 modules if that meant toning down the voicing considerably.....a slight bass boost and the rest flat would be acceptable IMO for these modules. That's just me though.


 Peete.


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## ccschua

What it says there 

 "Remove 2 adjustable resistor,add 2 nos of 4.32k resistor as per diagram. Increase the capacitor to 33P, increase 4 resistor value at the back from 100 ohm to 220 ohm"

 this is the new Sun V2


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## Pricklely Peete

ccschua;4792573 said:
			
		

> What it says there
> 
> "Remove 2 adjustable resistor,add 2 6.8k resistor as per diagram. Increase the capacitor to 33P, increase 4 resistor at the back from 100 ohm to 220 ohm"
> 
> ...


----------



## Currawong

Does anyone want to buy my Sun V1 then?


----------



## ccschua

If u notice on the ZERO PCB, they are 2 blue pot at the lower right. I tried adjusting the blue pot to give +/- 18V DC to my OPA Earth, but I cant tell the difference in SQ. 

 But if u face power drain issue, adjusting the V+/- helps or not ? [dunno why only 1 nichicon is installed on this mod]


----------



## ccschua

Hi PP,

 The resistor value should be 4.32 k and not 6.8k. Really sorry about that and appreciate u can change it to avoid confusion. What u need to bring back Sun to Sun V2 is

 1, 2 nos of 4K3 Resistor [high accuracy, 0.1],
 2,2 nos of 33P cap,
 3, 4 nos of SMD 220 ohm resistor,

 [considering the accuracy, might as well buy from or get it free from audio-gd to post it]


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Thanks for the update CC I appreciate it !!!

 I too was wondering about the single cap .......One note about the mod I did, the 2 analog regs that were getting very hot before adding the PS1 kit are now barely even warm...so the kit took 75% of the load (best guess) off that section of the Zero.

 The difference in temp is dramatic. I wonder if upping the voltage via the adjustable trimmers would yield a better result with the H/Amp load out of the picture ?

 I can do that on Sunday to test it out if you want. My only concern is the voltage rating of the 4 - stock 47uf 10V caps (Elna Silmics) Would it be prudent to swap those out for 25V or 35V rated Silmic II's ? I have 4 left (47uf 35V) on hand for the job.

 Peete.


----------



## ccschua

Hi PP,

 U are right about it. Printed on PCB is 25V330uF but the cap used is 16V330uF. Looking at it, on the headphone amp all of them uses 16V. So it is prudent to remain the voltage at 15V.

 Regarding power the headphone amp, did u connect using the 3 pin (V+ Gnd V- ) or direct to the OPA Sun?

 Furthermore if u are using Burson HDAM, any voltage beyond 15V is not recommended.


----------



## ccschua

Hi PP, AP, S-Man

 Sorry to bombard you with more ZERO mods. If u are loaded with too much mod, let me know.

 Pls see another mod on this and what u think of its merits. {Dont you think it is fun looking at this}

 1. Diode Bypass (reduce noise)
 2. Stability and Noise killing mod for digital section (PS bypass replaced with Silver Mica)
 3. Ground loop breaker mod (better caps)
 4. More capacitance for the main analog stage, from 4400uF to 6600uF
 5. More capacitance for the digital stage with Silmic II parallel, from 2000uF to 2330uF and bypass. 
 6. Cap replacement on analog output stage
 7. Film cap replacement with german Wimas near the clock, DAC and supply lines


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi PP, AP, S-Man

 Sorry to bombard you with more ZERO mods. If u are loaded with too much mod, let me know.

 Pls see another mod on this and what u think of its merits. {Dont you think it is fun looking at this}

 1. Diode Bypass (reduce noise)
 2. Stability and Noise killing mod for digital section (PS bypass replaced with Silver Mica)
 3. Ground loop breaker mod (better caps)
 4. More capacitance for the main analog stage, from 4400uF to 6600uF
 5. More capacitance for the digital stage with Silmic II parallel, from 2000uF to 2330uF and bypass. 
 6. Cap replacement on analog output stage
 7. Film cap replacement with german Wimas near the clock, DAC and supply lines















_

 


 Crikey cc, you wanna go all out, huh? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My eyes are a bit tired so I may not give MHO on all of these in order. Quality caps around the DAC are ALWAYS beneficial. My old POOGE modded CDP a few(!) years back had stacked film caps for that purpose. My Yam CDP has them already. Wima MKPs a good idea for starters, IMO. 
 Why is there only one Nichicon? I would hazzard a guess that you need two of them for both channels. Change 'em for Cerafines, I reckon. Or at least Silmics. 
 Yes, you could change all those yellow MKT caps for MKPs - Wimas if you want. 
 Oh, just thought, FrankenZero will cover most if not all of those changes anyway, cc. 
 Bypassing diodes is often done to keep 'em quiet, I understand. Using Shottkey diodes is a good upgrade if they're not already in there. 
 In my experience going overboard on capacitance is not always a good thing. Yes, there could often be more, but the quality counts for more than value. For instance, a 1000uF Black Gate is more efficient and far better sounding than a 2200/3300uF cap of lesser quality. It's been proven a number of times by various people. My Plinius pre-amp has many smaller value caps in parallel in preference to less caps of much larger value. They simply respond faster to requirements, in general. Some power amp manufacturers use the same approach. In saying all of that, yes, you could upgrade the cap sizes somewhat. I'm wary of the blanket 'bigger is better' approach, it ain't necessarily so. 
 Everything else you have suggested looks fine to me, mate. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Hope I haven't waffled on. Cheers, S-Man

 BTW, it does look strange seeing so much space in your Zero where an HDAM is in mine! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The 627s are tiny in comparison. I had to laugh. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 They're great aren't they!


----------



## Doorknob

Today as I was comparing my Cowon A2 to my Zero I noticed one very different factor.

 Bass on the Zero is LEAN. Very small amount of bass is actually heard and felt. Also the bass detail is just not there at all compared to my portable source.

 My Zero is modded with lt1364 in the headphone amp and earth in the DAC with two 22p caps removed. Headphone is ATH A-900.

 Might it have to do anything with the earth opamp killing most of the bass or is this how neutral sound sounds like?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Hi CC,

 Here's are pics of the latest version of my FrankenZero .....the caps on the H/Amp board have been swapped to 1500uf 25V Nichicon PW's + pio bypass with 47uf 10V pair being swapped out for a pair of same value 35V Silmic II's and then bypassed with 2 more pios. 


 The power tap in point for the PS1 kit's +15 0 - 15V outputs are the three pads underneath the H/Amp where the black 3 wire connector from the main pcb is routed to the H/amp is located. Unhooked the black power connection from the H/amp pcb soldering the output wires of the Reg supply to those 3 spots. When I get my chassis, the connectors will be taken out and the wires soldered in properly. The cheap 2 x 4 wiring harness will be upgraded to 4 runs of (2 wire plus double shielded Gotham Silver plated OFC)




 What I was referring to in my previous post was the 4 caps just above the analog board regs...on my zero they are 47uf 10V which I find rather odd since that section is being run at 15V.....

 The Wima caps are a great fit IMO. The silver mica dipped caps are always preferred over their ceramic counterparts IMO. I'm not sure how the diode bypass works....could you explain that one further please. 


 That's all I can think of for now when looking at the pics you've posted.

 Here is 2 shots of my current Rev FrankenZero (Earth modules in all positions).






 In this shot you can see where the -15 0 + 15V DC lines are soldered in and all the bypass PIO caps.












 Up and running...

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Doorknob* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Today as I was comparing my Cowon A2 to my Zero I noticed one very different factor.

 Bass on the Zero is LEAN. Very small amount of bass is actually heard and felt. Also the bass detail is just not there at all compared to my portable source.

 My Zero is modded with lt1364 in the headphone amp and earth in the DAC with two 22p caps removed. Headphone is ATH A-900.

 Might it have to do anything with the earth opamp killing most of the bass or is this how neutral sound sounds like?_

 

How many hours do you have on both the Zero and HDAM module ?

 Mine has loads of bass.

 Peete.


----------



## Doorknob

About two good weeks.

 Used a bit of pink noise here and there also.

 I had 220-55hz frequencies raised in the foobar by about 5-7 levels. The highest being the 220hz. Nothing else in the EQ is touched.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Weird that you have no bass from the Zero, with my HD650s I have tons of bass. On my speakers the bass became a looooooooot better that I thought I bought new speakers. Even my friend was impressed that he was wondering what did I do to my speakers.


----------



## sennsay

Yeah, ditto on the above, doorknob, plenty of great and clean, tight bass. transparent too with KHA. My Zero's had well over 200 hours now and sounds just great with FrankenZero to come.

 Actually LeBuLLeT, that's really cool about your speakers! Don't ya just love it when that happens, a friend pops by and goes "woah, dude, what have you done?" Gotta be happy with that!


----------



## bundee1

My Zero has about 50hrs on it and the bass isnt as plentiful as before but it has tightened up. Im hoping the next 50hrs brings it back out along with the lower mids to fill out the sound.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Doorknob* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_About two good weeks.

 Used a bit of pink noise here and there also.

 I had 220-55hz frequencies raised in the foobar by about 5-7 levels. The highest being the 220hz. Nothing else in the EQ is touched._

 

I wonder if the 40 ohm load the AT's present may be the critical factor here ?

 Do you have higher impedance cans you can try out to confirm if the bass returns ?

 Level your eq settings for that test. You may have to use an adapter that brings the impedance up to say 150 ohms or so ......those can be had for fairly cheap (that is if the higher impedance cans have the bass back from the test).

 The other option is an amp that drives low impedance cans better than the H/Amp in the Zero.

 These are just suggestions but two amps immediately spring to mind (3 actually). The Bada PH1 , the new LD I+ and the Millet Max Hybrid. All three have loads of power in the low impedance range.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Zero has about 50hrs on it and the bass isnt as plentiful as before but it has tightened up. Im hoping the next 50hrs brings it back out along with the lower mids to fill out the sound._

 

Just to remind you bundee1, the bass won't be as strong as some of the other owner's reports here due to the huge gap in SQ between the stock opamp (in the dac section) vs either the 627's or HDAM module.

 Areas of the freq spectrum recede and return during burn in, nothing to worry about, that's perfectly normal 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Doorknob another possibility is your Foobar2000 settings, if you have gain matching enabled while applying heavy amounts of EQ the higher you go with a certain band (with boost) the more gain or level matching shaves off that frequency to remain within the limiter settings......

 If you have gain matching enabled, turn it off. I'd also suggest no more than 3 db boost on any band with the eq. I don't use any tone shaping in the digital domain since I want a 100% pure untouched signal heading to the DAC.

 Try your Foobar config this way and report back. 

 Hope that helps a little further. I'm just trying to cover all the bases 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Doorknob

The highest impedence cans I have at the moment would be a kramer modded KSC75. Bass still seems the same. ASIO is used for the duration of this testing. No amps except the headphone output for the Zero is used.

 Played around with the EQ a bit more and tried testing between bass boost EQ and none. What's noted is that low mids and the higher bass notes sounds fine. It's just that when it goes into the extreme lows (below 110hz) the Zero does rather a poor job at this.

 Unlike the Zero, my A2 can make the bass notes (Bass as in, the instrument) sing. I can feel and hear them. It should be noted that I used jet effect settings of 4 BBE, 10 M3B, and 10 3DS for any of those that have Cowon's products. It makes orchestra music and some jazz very lively at times.

 I know how a Bass (Again, the instrument) sounds. A subsitute in the high school came into our class with a huge 3/4 bass and played a bit for us. Great musician, this guy.

 I'm very unexperienced when it comes to audio, so it might just be that I'm attracted to deep bass by nature.

 Guess I'll take a rest and report further findings later.

 Edit: Yeah, even with extreme EQing with the foobar, I cannot reach the degree of vibration and quality of of deep bass found in the A2. Odd.


----------



## bundee1

I thought the 627's are the new "stock" opamp in these upgraded units. Is the hdam earth plug and play or is there soldering involved? sorry about all the questions but even after reading 700+ pages its hard to keep track of all the info even the basic stuff.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Just chiming in to give recent readers a copy of the buying links in my sig.

 Sorry I'm not contributing much, but I'm still reading up each day, and looking forward to the completed list of mods 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought the 627's are the new "stock" opamp in these upgraded units. Is the hdam earth plug and play or is there soldering involved? sorry about all the questions but even after reading 700+ pages its hard to keep track of all the info even the basic stuff._

 

Hi Bundee1 

 Yeah it's tough to keep up with all the variations. 

 The HDAM is plug and play, no soldering required and not all vendors offer the 627 in the dac section. 

 CW's guide spells out all the options very well as does AP's guide.


 Doorknob,

 Are you sure you have your opamps fully seated in their sockets ? If they don't make solid contact things can be lean sounding .....trying to narrow down all possibilities for you.

 Peete.


----------



## Doorknob

Checked the insides. Can't find anything wrong there. I think it might just be the nature of my cans. Would having a soundcard (using it as a SPDIF Out) have anything to do with an external DACs performance? 

 Using an EQ does help a bit, so I'm not too worried about this problem. Everything else does sound great, only bass is something I have problems with.

 Did notice lots of white dust-like stuff on the board.

 I guess I can only wait for the next mod to show up then.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Doorknob* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Checked the insides. Can't find anything wrong there. I think it might just be the nature of my cans. Would having a soundcard (using it as a SPDIF Out) have anything to do with an external DACs performance? 

 Using an EQ does help a bit, so I'm not too worried about this problem. Everything else does sound great, only bass is something I have problems with.

 Did notice lots of white dust-like stuff on the board.

 I guess I can only wait for the next mod to show up then._

 

Hmmm, well hopefully it's something fixable because the obvious conclusion is the AT's aren't a good match for the amp...Maybe a hybrid like the 110 US LD I+ would be the ticket or an adapter to present a larger impedance to the H/Amp is the next step ?

 Have you made sure there is no funky processing going on in the SC settings in the computers control panel for these tests ?

 Sorry to ask if you've answered this before ...

 Peete.


----------



## Doorknob

Nothing's on the soundcard except for the adjustment volume (easily done on Zero). All the DSP effects are done through foobar.

 I don't think most headphones are designed anyways to hear the lowest of the low Bass (Inst) notes anyways.

 As far as EQing goes, moderate changes can be made without hearing any distortion. ASIO works wonders on such things.

 Sources seriously do change the sound of any headphone tremendously. Was just a bit confused on how a $300 portable source can beat a modded Zero hands down on extreme low bass.

 Edit: Found a suitable bass boost EQ to match with how the A2 sounds. The sound is clearer on the Zero. Impact is excellent. Not enough shaking (literally) though.


----------



## bundee1

Aside from a few decent parts and sound design and construction, the Zero is still only a $170 DAC/HP amp albeit a really good one. My old Music Hall cd player sounded better. We have to keep things in perspective, besides I dont think your unit is as modded as Peete's. If your soundcard beat that thing I would then question everything in these 7,000+ posts.

 That being said Im enjoying mine very much and it IS getting better with burn in. Im at about 65 hours and the sound is getting clearer with better space between the instruments and vocals. Bass isnt there 100% but getting better. Ill give it another week before HDAM time. Is the concensus that EARTH is the better all around module for the DAC?


----------



## ScottieB

Hey AP, was wondering if you could refresh my memory...

 I remember a while back, you (like me) tried the Sun HDAM first, and (also like me) really liked it. You said you briefly listened to the Earth but weren't impressed. Then later went back and gave the Earth a real chance...

 I've just swapped out my Sun for the Earth (finally) and was wondering if you could take me thru that experience again (or at least link me to the old posts)? You ended up settling on the Earth, right?

 If you could help me out, I'd appreciate your time.

 ScottieB


----------



## Currawong

A couple of thoughts: Sometimes changing the EQ can give an illusion of more clarity, as certain frequencies become louder. TV adverts use this trick to get around people turning down the volume while they are on.

 Bassheads, I get the impression, seem to have different ideas about what sounds good, such as people who love the Ultrasone models with the excessive bass hump.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A couple of thoughts: Sometimes changing the EQ can give an illusion of more clarity, as certain frequencies become louder. TV adverts use this trick to get around people turning down the volume while they are on.

 Bassheads, I get the impression, seem to have different ideas about what sounds good, such as people who love the Ultrasone models with the excessive bass hump._

 

Was thinking about this - because with certain types of music I am a "bass-head" - so perhaps the issues Doorknob is having are due to his preference. Often lower end equipment that is known to have or even markets that it has "good bass" or "expanded bass" actually has "boomy" bass. I actually kind of like this subwoofer effect for hip-hop music (well some hip hop music) but find it destroys other kinds. 

 Perhaps the Zero just isn't suited to the sound you like? Frankly the amp in the Zero is only okay, regardless of opamp. My LD amp improves on the sound in ever way, including bass. Or maybe it just doesn't do it with the headphones you have. Ok now I'm confused 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 too many variables... ha


----------



## Currawong

I've started putting pictures in my Zero guide, which should be helpful. I need to do an opamp/HDAM installation guide yet.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Aside from a few decent parts and sound design and construction, the Zero is still only a $170 DAC/HP amp albeit a really good one. My old Music Hall cd player sounded better. We have to keep things in perspective, besides I dont think your unit is as modded as Peete's. If your soundcard beat that thing I would then question everything in these 7,000+ posts.

 That being said Im enjoying mine very much and it IS getting better with burn in. Im at about 65 hours and the sound is getting clearer with better space between the instruments and vocals. Bass isnt there 100% but getting better. Ill give it another week before HDAM time. Is the concensus that EARTH is the better all around module for the DAC?_

 

Yes the concensus is that the EARTH is a lot better for the dac section of the Zero.


----------



## oofie810

Hey guys, long time lurker here. I just ordered my zero from Lawrence and I have yet to receive it. I do have a few questions though.

 I want to purchase a tube amp (probably a LD II++ next month) or I could also buy another set of phones (k601, hd 595 or dt770). Right now I'll be using my Grado SR80 with the Zero, source is my macbook pro. Will I be better off buying a separate amp for my sr80s or just buying a better set of phones? 

 My goal for the next few months is to have a better set of phones, an amp and the zero til I wear them out (Ive had my sr80s since 05). I just am not sure which one to buy first, the amp or the phones.

 Ron


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oofie810* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys, long time lurker here. I just ordered my zero from Lawrence and I have yet to receive it. I do have a few questions though.

 I want to purchase a tube amp (probably a LD II++ next month) or I could also buy another set of phones (k601, hd 595 or dt770). Right now I'll be using my Grado SR80 with the Zero, source is my macbook pro. Will I be better off buying a separate amp for my sr80s or just buying a better set of phones? 

 My goal for the next few months is to have a better set of phones, an amp and the zero til I wear them out (Ive had my sr80s since 05). I just am not sure which one to buy first, the amp or the phones.

 Ron_

 

I'd go with the Headphone upgrade first.

 Peete.


----------



## oofie810

^ is that because the zero can still drive the better phones without the need of an amp?


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oofie810* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ is that because the zero can still drive the better phones without the need of an amp?_

 

Probably that coupled with the fact that Grado's don't really improve all that much with an amp. I was a Grado-head at one time, upgraded all the way to the SR-225s, but then I heard Sennheisers and haven't looked back.. I've given the grados a shot a few times since, and there are certainly some songs (rock mostly) that sound fantastic with them, but the HD-600s have become my all-around 'phones. They do, however, sound pretty bad out of a portable player and even my (decent) home theater receiver - while the Grado's sound just fine...


----------



## oofie810

^ but will I be ok without an amp, just the zero if I use a k601/k701 or the sennheiser hd 600/650? I just dont want to upgrade headphones and be lacking a dedicated amp.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oofie810* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ but will I be ok without an amp, just the zero if I use a k601/k701 or the sennheiser hd 600/650? I just dont want to upgrade headphones and be lacking a dedicated amp._

 

Can't say - as you can see from my sig I have a dedicated amp, which I use almost exclusively. I can say it drives my HD600s just beautifully. Have never tried the k601/701 on my amp or the zero.


----------



## oofie810

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can't say - as you can see from my sig I have a dedicated amp, which I use almost exclusively. I can say it drives my HD600s just beautifully. Have never tried the k601/701 on my amp or the zero._

 

Yeah, i'll proaably just get the 'phones first then save up quickly for a dedicated amp.


----------



## bundee1

Does anyone know the exact part number to get the free LT1364 sample from Linear Technology?

 Thank you.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone know the exact part number to get the free LT1364 sample from Linear Technology?

 Thank you._

 

I only requested over their website for Lt1364, there's a option of request free sample.

 But the local LT representative called me and asking why I wanted that sample and they said they wouldn't send me free samples for "simple academic research". I study engenheering on one of the most respectable university on Brazil and got this answer.... I see you guys geting it without even be questioned why you want....

 I hate this kind of small thinking of poor country.

 Diego


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 I hate this kind of small thinking of poor country.

 Diego 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I hear you that it doesn't seem fair that you got questioned, but I've been thinking about this... how many of these things do you think they've given away for free by now? If the purpose of giving samples is in the hopes that one will then come back and make a big purchase, I could see how they'd get frustrated with a bunch of head-fi'ers looking for freebies, with no intention of actually purchasing anything ever... I wondered that from the first time I heard about it. Just thinking about the other side is all.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oofie810* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ but will I be ok without an amp, just the zero if I use a k601/k701 or the sennheiser hd 600/650? I just dont want to upgrade headphones and be lacking a dedicated amp._

 

My stock Zero drives my 701's (along with all the cans listed in sig - past and present) to adequate levels and with enjoyable SQ. The 701's are the hardest of the cans to drive of all cans listed, but I never feel the need to crank the pot wide open. 

 Actually, I bought the Zero firstly as an inexpensive demo tool to help me decide what cans I'd buy and keep, and it served that purpose well. Extremely well, TBH. Now I'm looking to upgrade the stock HP op amps and/or add an external amp, like yourself.

 I can't speak of the 601's, but feel confident you should be able to enjoy 701's from the Zero's internal HP amp until you finalize the purchase of an external amp.


----------



## oofie810

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My stock Zero drives my 701's (along with all the cans listed in sig - past and present) to adequate levels and with enjoyable SQ. The 701's are the hardest of the cans to drive of all cans listed, but I never feel the need to crank the pot wide open. 

 Actually, I bought the Zero firstly as an inexpensive demo tool to help me decide what cans I'd buy and keep, and it served that purpose well. Extremely well, TBH. Now I'm looking to upgrade the stock HP op amps and/or add an external amp, like yourself.

 I can't speak of the 601's, but feel confident you should be able to enjoy 701's from the Zero's internal HP amp until you finalize the purchase of an external amp._

 

Nice! I guess the right move for me is to use the Zero until i find the cans i'll like and buy the dedicated amp after.


----------



## bundee1

Which one of these would I request or even buy from somewhere else later?
 Package Variations and Pricing
 Part Number Package Pins Temp Price (1-99) Price (1k)* RoHS Data 
 LT1364CN8 PDIP 8 C $4.58 $3.70 View 
 LT1364CN8#PBF PDIP 8 C $4.58 $3.70 View 
 LT1364CS8 SO 8 C $4.80 $3.85 View 
 LT1364CS8#PBF SO 8 C $4.80 $3.85 View 
 LT1364CS8#TR SO 8 C $3.91 View 
 LT1364CS8#TRPBF SO 8 C $3.91 View


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hear you that it doesn't seem fair that you got questioned, but I've been thinking about this... how many of these things do you think they've given away for free by now? If the purpose of giving samples is in the hopes that one will then come back and make a big purchase, I could see how they'd get frustrated with a bunch of head-fi'ers looking for freebies, with no intention of actually purchasing anything ever... I wondered that from the first time I heard about it. Just thinking about the other side is all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Actually, the sample programs are geared to commercial use of their products (i.e. 1st party engineering, OEM, consulting, etc.) where the product may end up used in a design which will be manufactured. If you are incorporated or an LLC, or have a business address, you will very easily get samples, even those products that aren't listed in "official" sample programs, and at higher quantities than suggested on the websites, if desired.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hear you that it doesn't seem fair that you got questioned, but I've been thinking about this... how many of these things do you think they've given away for free by now? If the purpose of giving samples is in the hopes that one will then come back and make a big purchase, I could see how they'd get frustrated with a bunch of head-fi'ers looking for freebies, with no intention of actually purchasing anything ever... I wondered that from the first time I heard about it. Just thinking about the other side is all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I know that, but the production cost is so minimal that it's worth it, to build the company name.....
 We care for quality and like their product, it's a big advertisement.

 The problem is: such IC here costs more than $25 a piece.....

 But a friend from Brazil sold me two LT1364 along with opa632 and hd-650 for cheap.... this way I could upgrade my zero and enjoy it even more....


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which one of these would I request or even buy from somewhere else later?
 Package Variations and Pricing
 Part Number Package Pins Temp Price (1-99) Price (1k)* RoHS Data 
 LT1364CN8 PDIP 8 C $4.58 $3.70 View 
 LT1364CN8#PBF PDIP 8 C $4.58 $3.70 View 
 LT1364CS8 SO 8 C $4.80 $3.85 View 
 LT1364CS8#PBF SO 8 C $4.80 $3.85 View 
 LT1364CS8#TR SO 8 C $3.91 View 
 LT1364CS8#TRPBF SO 8 C $3.91 View_

 


 Now you got me.... but I'm pretty sure it's one of these:
 LT1364CN8 PDIP 8 C $4.58 $3.70 View 
 LT1364CN8#PBF PDIP 8 C $4.58 $3.70 View 




 Diego


----------



## bundee1

its true that this thread and our sample requests are helping promote linear tech because lawrence must be orderin quantities fronm somewhere to upgrade all the zeros he is selling.

 are you sure that its the ones with the pdip designation? if that's the case then your recommendations are good. the pbf at the end only means its lead free.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_its true that this thread and our sample requests are helping promote linear tech because lawrence must be orderin quantities fronm somewhere to upgrade all the zeros he is selling.

 are you sure that its the ones with the pdip designation? if that's the case then your recommendations are good. the pbf at the end only means its lead free._

 

Thank you for making my point of view valid. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well PDIP and SO are the packages type.
 From wiki:
Howto identify chip packages - Wikihowto: a howto site anyone can edit

 Zero uses DIP package for DAC and Head Amp op-amps.

 PDIP is Plastic DIP.

 So I guess there's no mistake.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Diego


----------



## bundee1

thank you for clearing that up diego.


----------



## cdingdong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The website "our first generation discrete opamp" actually refers to the HDAM which is marketed under Bursons (they got the rights). 

 OPA-earth is the second generation discrete opamp design with the same circuit as HDAM. Below is the improvement made to the OPA-Earth :

 1. OPA Earth has been improved with new parameters values used in the components. Its output sound quality is more stable across wider supply voltage as compared to HDAM which may deteriote with lower input voltage.

 2. OPA Earth is more stable with better transparency as compared to old design.

 3. Given the change in parameters, the sound quality difference between with and without ground connection is minimized.

 In addition to changes in component values, one distinct difference is the BJT used in the attached photo. When working near its full load condition, Old design (HDAM) is affected more negatively by the sound quality, stability and life value as compared to OPA Earth. OPA Earth, with a bigger capacity BJT, has more capacity to perform._

 

I contacted Lawrence because I want to buy a Zero DAC with some upgrades. He offers a version with HDAM and 2x LT1364. I asked him what kind of HDAM it is, whether it is Burson, Earth, or Sun, and he replied with this:

 "Dear sir,

 Burson is the serious version among the 3 types. It use more FETs and transistors than other 2 models. Burson sell $120 in their website and it show they are expensive and higher value than the others. I sell $50/module burson. Actually , earth and sun is only a simpler version and less serious version of Burson. "

 But according to ccschua, Burson is the older version of Earth and Sun, so would Lawrence be out of date or lying to me just so I decide to buy from him?


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey AP, was wondering if you could refresh my memory...

 I remember a while back, you (like me) tried the Sun HDAM first, and (also like me) really liked it. You said you briefly listened to the Earth but weren't impressed. Then later went back and gave the Earth a real chance...

 I've just swapped out my Sun for the Earth (finally) and was wondering if you could take me thru that experience again (or at least link me to the old posts)? You ended up settling on the Earth, right?

 If you could help me out, I'd appreciate your time.

 ScottieB_

 

Hiya Scott.

 Yeah, I initially loved the sun. It sings in a way the Earth never has done. With my old HD480II Senns, the difference was big and likeable. But once I got my Stax rig, the Sun was overly bright and quickly fatiguing. I swapped it over for the Earth and whilst I was disappointed for a couple of days, once my ears had adjusted to the more neutral Earth, it was far more likeable.

 The Sun is great - it emphasises the sparkly bits of a recording, whilst giving a bit more slam to the lower regions. Swapping over to the Earth, the detail and punch was immediately lacking. But after using the Earth for a few days, going back to the Sun makes the sound uncomfortable and very tiring extremely quickly.

 If I didn't have the Stax rig, then I dare say I'd have still been using the Sun. Its liveliness works well with them... but the Sun is just too darned sparkly with the Stax. It makes a very enjoyable hobby extremely hard work, and does so very quickly.

 Both are different. With a lot of setups, and ears, then the Earth will be the winner purely for its natural sound. But if your ears and headphones prefer the signature of the Sun, then sod them - use what sounds best to you. It's your experience at the end of the day, there's no point going by what someone else has said if your ears aren't enjoying it as much 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## ScottieB

Thanks, AP. Yeah - I'm a former grado head (BRIGHT) who has switched over to the Senn HD600 (DARK!) so what you said makes perfect sense - perhaps the Sun just brought out more of the bright stuff in my new darker headphones. 

 Either way, I've only got about 50 hours on the Earth - so I will certainly give it its due time and then we'll see. And fear not - my ears are the only ones that matter in this house (just don't tell the wife)! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for responding!


----------



## AudioPhewl

We're all different mate. Don't be afraid to go "against the grain" if what you're hearing works best for you. The opinion of me, Peete, or even Andrea - it's all useless if you don't enjoy something.

 Trust your own gut 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## grkn

Hey, If someone has a couple of LT1364CN8#PBFs lying around I'll gladly buy them, linear wanted 42usd in shipping :S


----------



## grkn

"OPA627s + LT1364 DAC=great, phone=great"

 What if you do the lampizator bypass, isn't then the DAC OPAMP bypassed when using the headphones? (as it is removed...).?

 Anyone tried with the mod and using the headamp?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_We're all different mate. Don't be afraid to go "against the grain" if what you're hearing works best for you. The opinion of me, Peete, or even Andrea - it's all useless if you don't enjoy something.

 Trust your own gut 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl._

 

Hehe but some are more useless than others 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .......gimme an A......gimme an N....gimme a D......ah forget it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Heres some pics of the MC-7R Tube Preamp cap upgrade. 

 Your gonna flip ScottieB !!!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 Preliminary drawing after mock up






 Placement finalizing, then off to drill 18 holes into the bottom plate to affix caps and allow wiring harnesses access to all they need to get to 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 Test fit of plate (it's a perfect fit) with caps affixed waiting to be wired in....






 Angled shot of the previous.

 Man I hate drilling mild steel without a proper drill press......still I did a good job with a hand drill .....took quite a while to drill those holes even with titanium bits. (10 x 1/4 inch and 8 x 3/8 inch).

 Hopefully by late afternoon tomorrow she be ready for the first power up....

 This mod is simply replacing all the garbage MKP film caps for PLIO and pure Teflons. 4 x 1uf 500V PLIO's (the huge green buggers), 4 x .1uf 600V Teflon, and 4 x .033uf 500V Teflon. 

 Should be very interesting to hear what this may do for the amp....I'm betting it completely opens it up....

 Peete.

 PS Please note the 2 large 1uf caps at the bottom (near the RCA outputs) are bypassed by 2 .033uf 500V Teflons (the smallest caps used in this case). This amp is truly heavy for a preamp, it has large transformer and a choke. I'd say the amps weighs at 35 lbs now....needs to go on a diet ....(not gonna happen)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Cheers all !!!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cdingdong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I contacted Lawrence because I want to buy a Zero DAC with some upgrades. He offers a version with HDAM and 2x LT1364. I asked him what kind of HDAM it is, whether it is Burson, Earth, or Sun, and he replied with this:

 "Dear sir,

 Burson is the serious version among the 3 types. It use more FETs and transistors than other 2 models. Burson sell $120 in their website and it show they are expensive and higher value than the others. I sell $50/module burson. Actually , earth and sun is only a simpler version and less serious version of Burson. "

 But according to ccschua, Burson is the older version of Earth and Sun, so would Lawrence be out of date or lying to me just so I decide to buy from him?_

 

That's not what LC told me at all....sounds like someone else to me. Burson's HDAM is audio-gd first gen....period...end of story....Earth is second generation.....what CC posted is correct.

 That being said I can discern no SQ advantage over the first gen HDAM or the second generation...so it's not all that important in the big picture. I have both types. The LC module and 2 Earth modules.....so....


 Peete.


----------



## Coreyk78

I finally got my pair of OPA627BPs off of fleabay delivered today, they didn't have the crescent notch like most IC's seem to have, so I oriented the end that had the little shiny circle closer to it towards the crescent notches on the dual 8-dip adapter I got (also from ebay)

 I plugged it into my zero with the crescent notches on the adapter sockets facing the same direction as the notch on the zero board and got lots of weird popping and heavily distorted sound. So, somewhat nervously I pulled out the adapter and flipped it 180* so that the notches on the adapter board were in the opposite direction of the notch on the zero's socket. When I turned it back on that way it sounded good and no more weird pops or distortion. 

 That is where I should have stopped, but no, I didn't. Without really taking any time to think about it or further investigate the issue I thought that the adapter board may have been somehow wired backwards. So in my great lack of wisdom I flipped the opa627s 180* in the adapter sockets and plugged the adapter back in with the crescent notches on the adapter matching the notch on the zero's socket. When I switched the power back on I found that I had just let the magic smoke out of my 15 minute old opa627s. Luckily the Zero was unharmed when I plugged the old 2604 back in.

 So after swearing and kicking myself for a while tonight I decided I wanted to share my tale of noobish stupidity and then ask why the adapter seemed to work properly when it was installed the wrong way but not when the notches were lined up. And see if it was my lack of knowledge that led to my fried chips or if it was the adapters that were to blame. For reference, I used these adapters from tube buyer on ebay. http://http://cgi.ebay.com/2x-Dual-t...742.m153.l1262


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Wow bummer dude......mistakes happen ? Tell tube buyer what happened...he's a good guy and might send you some replacements, worth a try at least.

 Peete.


----------



## Coreyk78

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow bummer dude......mistakes happen ? Tell tube buyer what happened...he's a good guy and might send you some replacements, worth a try at least.

 Peete._

 

I may try that, good to here he's a standup guy. Or I might just have to bite the bullet and buy some new chips or try out an opa earth instead. Oh well, not the first time I've fried something tinkering with it, still frustrating though.


----------



## ccschua

Hi PP,

 I wonder have u tried the HDAM in DAC and OPA Earthx2 in the headphone. I think that is a worthwhile try.

 1xEarth and 2xSun V2 as well as 3xOPA Moon is another combi too. So many option, really consuming.

 Regarding HDAM and OPA, the issue who come first is best left to 'TIME and PRODUCT' to walk the talk. I have been reminded to refrain to bring out this issue. Failing which no more ccschua in this forum.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi PP,

 I wonder have u tried the HDAM in DAC and OPA Earthx2 in the headphone. I think that is a worthwhile try.

 1xEarth and 2xSun V2 as well as 3xOPA Moon is another combi too. So many option, really consuming.

 Regarding HDAM and OPA, the issue who come first is best left to 'TIME and PRODUCT' to walk the talk. I have been reminded to refrain to bring out this issue. Failing which no more ccschua in this forum._

 

I'm doing that right now CC with the PS1 reg/transformer mod and the crazy super cap pak'd Earth modules.....heres a pic of the latest rev of FrankenZERO SST. I'm still waiting for my chassis to arrive (it'll be a while before it gets here).







 First generation HDAM in DAC section from LC (bought last Mar with Zero).

 Peete.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Coreyk78* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_




 I finally got my pair of OPA627BPs off of fleabay delivered today, they didn't have the crescent notch like most IC's seem to have, so I oriented the end that had the little shiny circle closer to it towards the crescent notches on the dual 8-dip adapter I got (also from ebay)

 I plugged it into my zero with the crescent notches on the adapter sockets facing the same direction as the notch on the zero board and got lots of weird popping and heavily distorted sound. So, somewhat nervously I pulled out the adapter and flipped it 180* so that the notches on the adapter board were in the opposite direction of the notch on the zero's socket. When I turned it back on that way it sounded good and no more weird pops or distortion. 

 That is where I should have stopped, but no, I didn't. Without really taking any time to think about it or further investigate the issue I thought that the adapter board may have been somehow wired backwards. So in my great lack of wisdom I flipped the opa627s 180* in the adapter sockets and plugged the adapter back in with the crescent notches on the adapter matching the notch on the zero's socket. When I switched the power back on I found that I had just let the magic smoke out of my 15 minute old opa627s. Luckily the Zero was unharmed when I plugged the old 2604 back in.

 So after swearing and kicking myself for a while tonight I decided I wanted to share my tale of noobish stupidity and then ask why the adapter seemed to work properly when it was installed the wrong way but not when the notches were lined up. And see if it was my lack of knowledge that led to my fried chips or if it was the adapters that were to blame. For reference, I used these adapters from tube buyer on ebay._

 

Don't worry we all do that at least one time in life....
 I understand you, ppl get too excited over new toys....
 Some years ago I burned my car's JBL sound amplifier that I had just bought, because I got so anxious of turning it on, that I forgot to pull the battery power cable out before installing it................ result.... 12+V made contact on a already grounded chassi.... =( never found someone to fix it.... it's still sleeping close to me, side by side with my bed, not working..... even 6 years after the fatidic day...

 Diego


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Hey Diego
 How are you running 2suns in the amp section of the Zero? I thought it needed more juice to run that way.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Diego
 How are you running 2suns in the amp section of the Zero? I thought it needed more juice to run that way._

 

I'm yet do draw my conclusions on that.
 They do work, what the other guys are claiming is that bass just goes away after burn-in.
 They aren't still fully burned.

 I'll give them more a week or something to fully mature and then put LT1364 back to take notes of differences.
 In fact I already did but still can't say the difference.



 Diego


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm doing that right now CC with the PS1 reg/transformer mod and the crazy super cap pak'd Earth modules.....heres a pic of the latest rev of FrankenZERO SST. I'm still waiting for my chassis to arrive (it'll be a while before it gets here).

 First generation HDAM in DAC section from LC (bought last Mar with Zero).

 Peete._

 

Hi PP.

 Thks for doing the mod and await your review. This FrankenZero will conquer the Zero on earth.

 Btw,

 special promo for those who order OPA Earth, Sun V2 or Moon in Oct. Special gift will be given. refer this page. I upgraded the RCA female plug using CMC (free gift). When u order moon, remember to get the silver cable and plug free.

http://www.audio-gd.com/enweb/pro/diy/OPA.htm


----------



## Currawong

ccschua, I soldered the earth wire to the RCA ground - wish I'd done that before now!

 I've updated my FAQ with more pictures - close-ups of the opamp socket so people can see how 627s and the HDAM should look when plugged in.

 I'm going to pull the trigger soon on Audio-gd's C-2C to see if it can best my MKV, being all discreet yet only costing $36 more. I've also got HD650s and some Quart QP 250s on the way, so things could get very interesting. The ZERO has bested my Apogee Duet and I suspect that with a HDAM and the basic mods, such as the cap snip could threaten anything quite a few hundred dollars more that is opamp-based.


----------



## dario

My zero is arrived today, I'm testing it but there is a strange problem with the alps potentiometer, before 13 clock I can hear only left channel, after 13 clock no problems, also the volume I hoped was a bit higher, testing for now...


----------



## seaice

Hi dario,

 What headphones do you have?

 Isnt the problem with overall volume in the digital source before the Zero?

 I have enough volume with any of my headphones - Senn 580, 650, AKG K701.

 And what is the potentiometer concerned, I have the same problem. But I dont need it at all. I have disconnected the H-amp in Zero and now I use only the DAC section for external headp-amp.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ccschua, I soldered the earth wire to the RCA ground - wish I'd done that before now!

 I've updated my FAQ with more pictures - close-ups of the opamp socket so people can see how 627s and the HDAM should look when plugged in.
_

 

So u have heard the difference, can u share ur impression about the earth wire connection to the RCA ground.

 Different RCA female will give different sound characteristics, inc silver coat cable. U will like this mod, try it yourself.


----------



## dario

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *seaice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi dario,

 What headphones do you have?

 Isnt the problem with overall volume in the digital source before the Zero?

 I have enough volume with any of my headphones - Senn 580, 650, AKG K701.

 And what is the potentiometer concerned, I have the same problem. But I dont need it at all. I have disconnected the H-amp in Zero and now I use only the DAC section for external headp-amp._

 

I have the Hd650, I'm not saing that is low, it's just more than adquate to have ear damage
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, I thinked to some post who say that thay listen the zero at 9-10 o clock, for me it's just quite nothing volume indeed, my max volume is at 17 + o -, and there is no distortion at all...

 For the pot problem I would want to resolve it (I also paid 20$ for the alps pot installed...), for some time I must use the zero integrated amp...yes the problem is on low volume but if I can resolve would be better
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I tried also the hdam in those few hours, for now I use 1 earth in dac + 2 sun in amp section, my second best choice vould be be sun in dac + 2xlt1364, but I don't know if I will change them, with more hours and possible shift of the hdam and zero..


----------



## Pricklely Peete

CC is right...the jack swap is a worthwhile expenditure IMO. The next jack to get swapped on my Frankie is the coax in. get rid of that cheap POS. I'll use the shielded Gotham cable for that. Look up Gotham cable at DIY Hi FI supply if your curious about it's geometry and materials used. It great cable for not much $$$.

 CC I'll tie my two HDAMs in the H/Amp to the 1/4 inch jack's ground post. I can't test that out until my chassis arrives though.

 I'm going to transfer the H/Amp board and the PS1 unit into that new chassis. 

 I'm doing all the wiring for the tube amp cap upgrade right now...just taking a break to see what's going on here today 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Back to work for me ...

 Peete.


----------



## dario

finally volume is ok now, I don't now if is suggestion or few hours operation, but now is really ok...

 I tried a dry deoxidation for pot problem but no changes, from 13 o clock is ok, before only left channel I don't know why, but for 20$ it's not so good...


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So u have heard the difference, can u share ur impression about the earth wire connection to the RCA ground._

 

+1


----------



## djembeplay

Will upgrading the volume pot improve SQ in any way, or is this more of an aesthetic / preference upgrade?


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_+1_

 

I have to listen to music with the ground wire connected all times. I like it better with the stray signal grounded. 

 Now the freebies is even extended to ALPS pot type 27 50kohm, plus RCA jack and silver coated wire.


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djembeplay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Will upgrading the volume pot improve SQ in any way, or is this more of an aesthetic / preference upgrade?_

 

The propose of replacing the pot is to correct an imbalance issue present in default pot, this may or may not be an issue depending on your setup. If you have low impedance cans replacing the pot would be recommended, because range of volume affected by the imbalance will be a usable one, on high impedance cans (like the HD650) you will barely notice it because you will in all probability have to crank the volume pot beyond the affected range to achieve a desirable volume level.

 I believe the alps pot will also allow you more travel, so you benefit from a more precise up/down volume.


----------



## dario

For now the Alps pot that sell Lawrence is not so good upgrade (many of us have problems with low volume) and why there are two version of the same potentiometer? Is a possible Alps fake pot?
Potentiomètre ALPS - Potentiomètre ALPS stéréo 100KAX2 24mm
ImageShack - Hosting :: dscf0379ga5.jpg


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have to listen to music with the ground wire connected all times. I like it better with the stray signal grounded. 

 Now the freebies is even extended to ALPS pot type 27 50kohm, plus RCA jack and silver coated wire._

 

I just did the tweak, but really can't tell if there's any difference..... because:

 - I just didn't bothered making an A/B
 - My HD650 has finally come to age this week. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I was really bothered with it's harsh highs..... after a long jorney of leaving it singing all night long, this week, it started to make things a lot more softer...
 I realized something was different, then took the songs it used to hurt my ears and them..... wow.... it was soft almost like a baby skin now....
 It must have around 230hours by now... I can say it's 85% of the way to have a most pleasant high.....

 So, I really can't tell if soldering Earth earth really made something, because a lot of songs are sounding better this week...


 A 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 for my dear headphone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Diego


----------



## djembeplay

Cool thanks. I'll be driving K701s, so I bet it will be fine then.

 I had the ALPS pot before and had serious grounding problems (resulting in buzzing audio). I had to send my original ZERO back to Lawrence and just picked up another one with the stock volume pot.


----------



## djembeplay

BTW, what do you mean when you say the ALPS pot has more 'travel'?


----------



## dario

Finally I resolved Lawrence or his employee, mounted the pot too forward, and when they mounted the headphone section it push against the cover, probably there is a little tilt that causes to ear the second channel only on high volume, than I revise the solder point of the pot, and "polished" the hole of the pot to create more space, and now is ok, I can ear the two channel from the start...

 but there is a but...


 I said to Lawrence to ckeck carefully it before ship, becouse I don't want problems and re-ship it is too expensive, he has shown me that the Zero has not just tested, because the problem I had is a problem that arises from the start, not really good.

 I don't know if it's a real or fake alps but now is quite ok, and closed story, now put my ears on zero


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So u have heard the difference, can u share ur impression about the earth wire connection to the RCA ground.

 Different RCA female will give different sound characteristics, inc silver coat cable. U will like this mod, try it yourself._

 

I have to make a trip to the local electronics store soon to get some RCAs. The only thing I don't have is good wire. I'm investigating getting some Van Den Hul SCS 28M for this kind of thing.


----------



## randomasdf

noob question, but could I use it both as an integrated amp/dac for my akg 271s rather than buying an external sound card or DAC?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dario* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Finally I resolved Lawrence or his employee, mounted the pot too forward, and when they mounted the headphone section it push against the cover, probably there is a little tilt that causes to ear the second channel only on high volume, than I revise the solder point of the pot, and "polished" the hole of the pot to create more space, and now is ok, I can ear the two channel from the start...

 but there is a but...


 I said to Lawrence to ckeck carefully it before ship, becouse I don't want problems and re-ship it is too expensive, he has shown me that the Zero has not just tested, because the problem I had is a problem that arises from the start, not really good.

 I don't know if it's a real or fake alps but now is quite ok, and closed story, now put my ears on zero 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Hi Dario,

 Glad you solved the issue....it would seem that QC from LC's shop has slipped again...

 I'll have a word with Pench about this......

 Peete.


----------



## bundee1

Hi Currawong I read your tutorial and it is Fantastic! I have a question for you and anyone that can answer: How does snipping those caps on the rca jacks and in the headphone section really affect the sound? You say it opens up the highs, but does it make the overall sound brighter? Does it get rid of some of the grain? Anymore comments on the sound this tweak produces would be appreciated. Thanks!


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Currawong I read your tutorial and it is Fantastic! I have a question for you and anyone that can answer: How does snipping those caps on the rca jacks and in the headphone section really affect the sound? You say it opens up the highs, but does it make the overall sound brighter? Does it get rid of some of the grain? Anymore comments on the sound this tweak produces would be appreciated. Thanks!_

 

Well, my impression was better detail and a little more smoother... and no cons at all...


----------



## bundee1

well im sold. do you cut them out completely or just snip a leg?


----------



## bundee1

double post. cellphone.


----------



## DaMnEd

Sniping a leg will do.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, my impression was better detail and a little more smoother... and no cons at all..._

 

x2. I thought that the whole sound was cleaned up and the dullness was gone from the top end. I guess that's why audiophile reviewers describe the sound as more "open".

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well im sold. do you cut them out completely or just snip a leg?_

 

I am not in favour of leaving loose wires of any kind floating around. Personally I de-soldered them, but the easy way is to snip the whole thing out. Same difference if you just snip a leg though.

 I've added more pictures, including one of the location of the caps in the head/pre amp to snip. They look the same as the ones in the DAC section next to the RCAs (since my picture was post-removal).

 I'm still trying to find a way to describe the result of soldering the earth wire of the HDAM to the RCA ground. The best I can come up with is that it sounds like I upgraded my amplifier to one with considerably more power in the sense that the music sounds much better controlled.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well im sold. do you cut them out completely or just snip a leg?_

 

I've just sniped 1 leg....


----------



## dario

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Dario,

 Glad you solved the issue....it would seem that QC from LC's shop has slipped again...

 I'll have a word with Pench about this......

 Peete._

 

He does'nt understand that if I buy from a guy thousand of km far from me, I buy mainly on "trust", becouse pratically buying things in china for most reasons is like buy a thing without support and without warranty, becouse in 90% of cases is'nt economical ship to china and possible re-pay customs...


 But he does'nt understand that we are not stupid.

 He strangely replied me (with an answer machine reply like email) only when I said him that I resolved by myself, second time, we are not stupid Lawrence.


 P.s returning to the zero, for now I'm ok with Earth in dac + 2 Sun in the head amp...no problems of volume\bass or similar for now and quite bettere than earth+2 lt1364 for me, 3 sun configuration is my second best choice but I like that configuration only with some music, eart+2sun is good with everything for me.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm still trying to find a way to describe the result of soldering the earth wire of the HDAM to the RCA ground. The best I can come up with is that it sounds like I upgraded my amplifier to one with considerably more power in the sense that the music sounds much better controlled._

 

Hey CW!

 PP and I were discussing this about a month ago. What you have discovered seems to fit into what we thought the results might be. If we were correct in our assumptions, a proper audio ground will ensure solid connectivity and the even and possibly higher flow of power for the HDAM when driven hard (big time dynamics).

 An improper ground could cause you all kinds of issues like power drop off and extra noise, so I believe the safe bet is to use the RCA ground for the HDAM, whether a difference can be heard or not. It just seems the most "proper" way to "audio ground" the HDAMs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As soon as I get some replacement RCA's in here, I'll be doing all of mine this way. You and several others have totally convinced me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for posting your experiences on this grounding issue.


----------



## direcow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dario* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_P.s returning to the zero, for now I'm ok with Earth in dac + 2 Sun in the head amp...no problems of volume\bass or similar for now and quite bettere than earth+2 lt1364 for me, 3 sun configuration is my second best choice but I like that configuration only with some music, eart+2sun is good with everything for me._

 

After 2 positive reviews on the whole thing, I decided to give it a shot (since I have all the EQ for it anyway)...

 Previously: Sun + 2xLT1364

 now: Earth + 2xSun (oh, and snipped those caps)

 The sound is suddenly MUCH cleaner... it's quite amazing. But what I do notice is quite a bit of loss of bass... it still feels very deep, but I think some of the rumbly and impact is gone. My earth is not burnt it yet tho, should it improve?

 I'll give it a while to see how I feel, but man, squeezing those HDAMs in isn't simple.


----------



## dario

I want to do the cap mode for the hdam, I must buy 1uf cap supporting >50v, right?
 One for hdam?
 What type of cap I must choice?


----------



## dario

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *direcow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After 2 positive reviews on the whole thing, I decided to give it a shot (since I have all the EQ for it anyway)...

 Previously: Sun + 2xLT1364

 now: Earth + 2xSun (oh, and snipped those caps)

 The sound is suddenly MUCH cleaner... it's quite amazing. But what I do notice is quite a bit of loss of bass... it still feels very deep, but I think some of the rumbly and impact is gone. My earth is not burnt it yet tho, should it improve?

 I'll give it a while to see how I feel, but man, squeezing those HDAMs in isn't simple._

 

Imho if there is a little loss (but I don't hear it) overall I prefer the 2 sun to the 2 lt1364, than no problem to choice the better solution for me
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 The earth in the dac with the two sun in the amp, take the pos of both with no cons regarding to the "standard" configuration...I don't know if my impressions will change with some burn in..(but I doubt)

 One cons is that they run quite hot, and I believe will be necessary active cooling with 3 hdam....now my zero is open than no problems of heat...


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dario* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Imho if there is a little loss (but I don't hear it) overall I prefer the 2 sun to the 2 lt1364, than no problem to choice the better solution for me
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 The earth in the dac with the two sun in the amp, take the pos of both with no cons regarding to the "standard" configuration...I don't know if my impressions will change with some burn in..(but I doubt)

 One cons is that they run quite hot, and I believe will be necessary active cooling with 3 hdam....now my zero is open than no problems of heat..._

 

Hi Dario,

 Are u using the latest Sun V2 (the one that have a cap solder to the OPA).. Just want to know if anyone has started using Sun V2 and the impressions.

 Today I spent some time swapping between Earth and Sun in the DAC. The sound difference is quite obvious. I will spend some more time listening to it.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey CW!

 PP and I were discussing this about a month ago. What you have discovered seems to fit into what we thought the results might be. If we were correct in our assumptions, a proper audio ground will ensure solid connectivity and the even and possibly higher flow of power for the HDAM when driven hard (big time dynamics).

 An improper ground could cause you all kinds of issues like power drop off and extra noise, so I believe the safe bet is to use the RCA ground for the HDAM, whether a difference can be heard or not. It just seems the most "proper" way to "audio ground" the HDAMs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As soon as I get some replacement RCA's in here, I'll be doing all of mine this way. You and several others have totally convinced me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for posting your experiences on this grounding issue. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I feel it too and the best word to describe about the grounding is 'control'


----------



## dario

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Dario,

 Are u using the latest Sun V2 (the one that have a cap solder to the OPA).. Just want to know if anyone has started using Sun V2 and the impressions.

 Today I spent some time swapping between Earth and Sun in the DAC. The sound difference is quite obvious. I will spend some more time listening to it._

 

sun v1 and without cap, I want also do the cap mode when I will understand what I need..(I would want to try the Burson one as I have understanded that gives the best result...)


----------



## direcow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dario* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One cons is that they run quite hot, and I believe will be necessary active cooling with 3 hdam....now my zero is open than no problems of heat..._

 

Yeah... the heat produced is madness - I thought the lt1364+2xlt1469 was bad enough...


----------



## ScottieB

Sorry about this guys but could someone point me to how to ground the HDAM to the RCA ground? I also see many are replacing the RCAs when they do this - so any suggestions on better plugs? Could I also use the same on the Coax input or does that use a different connector? I use the coax mostly and am not impressed with the connection (although it is far from bad, it could be better).


----------



## ccschua

Well, grounding is just a good practice. If u can wait till Penchum done the RCA and ground wire mod, that would put things into perspective.

 However as for me, I solder 1 copper wire to the ground (mid point of the triangle in the PCB).


----------



## ScottieB

Yeah I get why to do it - just need details on HOW - I know it's been illustrated here before, I just don't recall... thanks


----------



## dacavalcante

Hi guys, I'm wonder if doing that will do any harm on Zero ?

 The mean reason for this is to try to identify bass loss with 3 HDAMs setup.

 That way I'll use a flat 40Hz wav and check both at the same time.
 I already did it swaping both, but really couldn't come to a conclusion.... They seem to produce the same SPL.

 The other option is to find the spot on the pcb where I can mesure with a voltimeter the head amp section output, that way with a flat 40hz signal, I can check which one got the higher voltage on the output for this frequency. the high voltage will have more bass.......


 Diego


----------



## AudioPhewl

Bump for buying links in my signature.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## sharpi31

Can anyone help me to identify all of the coupling caps in the zero? I've swapped over to OPA627 + 2xLM4562, cut out the 4x ceramic caps and now I want to turn my attention to the caps in the signal path....


----------



## grkn

What do you guys think about doing the Lampizator bypass to the line out and installing a couple of LT1364s for the headphone amp? Wouldn't this be the cost effective route to go? Why bother with HDAMs if you can bypass?

 Cheers.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grkn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What do you guys think about doing the Lampizator bypass to the line out and installing a couple of LT1364s for the headphone amp? Wouldn't this be the cost effective route to go? Why bother with HDAMs if you can bypass?

 Cheers._

 

Well if you bypass the entire analog section (Lampy's passive out mod) you loose the voicing of the Zero's output section. I like the Zero's voicing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Go ahead and try it by all means...this is an equal opportunity tweak for all thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Most have the LT1364 opamps in the H/Amp already, that's one of the standard features of the "Head Fi members deal" setup from Lawrence Chan.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dacavalcante* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys, I'm wonder if doing that will do any harm on Zero ?

 The mean reason for this is to try to identify bass loss with 3 HDAMs setup.

 That way I'll use a flat 40Hz wav and check both at the same time.
 I already did it swaping both, but really couldn't come to a conclusion.... They seem to produce the same SPL.

 The other option is to find the spot on the pcb where I can mesure with a voltimeter the head amp section output, that way with a flat 40hz signal, I can check which one got the higher voltage on the output for this frequency. the high voltage will have more bass.......


 Diego_

 


 Hi Diego,

 I don't think you'll harm it in the short run......I was alarmed by the heat of the analog regs when running 3 HDAMs as you know. I can't imagine that kind of heat is good long term. For all I know they could be fine (at that temp) and I'm just a big worry wart 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 CC or Alex (hey where is Alex these days ? ) calculated the current draw on the stock PSU as being too much. I forget the exact number....anyway it was the reason why I went looking for a solution (as you know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


 Peete.


----------



## taso89

Sorry to bring this up again, but if I'm using the Zero strictly as a DAC/pre-amp can I unplug the headamp section and will I benefit from doing this?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Sure taso89. Just unplug the black 3 wire connector that powers the H/Amp pcb. Your done 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm not sure you'll hear a difference. Taking unused circuity out of the loop is always a good idea in practice.

 Peete.


----------



## Currawong

I didn't notice a difference disconnecting it, except that regardless of whether the head-amp was being used or not, it got hot, which was a waste of energy. The more power in reserve for the HDAM, the better I think.


----------



## ccschua

Just read some infor on Lampizator site regarding CD transport and the connection to the ZERO DAC. 

 The Lampi infor is inline with good practice as with audio-gd , that the best connection is still coaxial cable (75OHM) with BNC plug. Coaxial with RCA plug gives higher jitter. The BNC connection gives constant 75 ohm resistance throughout the load range, while the RCA can fluctuate between 32 ohm to 100 over ohm. That is bad for audio signal.

 AES/BSU has good reliability but still higher jitter than BNC.

 The least favour connection is Optical, it gives a jitter 20 times that of BNC. If u have AT&T, that would be good but $$$ = ZERO DAC.

 I dint trust all this until I saw lampi oscilloscope results and conclusions.

CD_transport_DIY


----------



## ccschua

I cant understand, if BNC connection is so good and cheap, why is not provided in most of the DAC ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







. This is a joke.

 Audio-gd uses the BNC plug (Les than USD 2) for one of its DAC, the clarity is better than those expensive coaxial RCA. Good news. Replacing the ZERO stock coaxial plug by BNC can be done directly without the need to drill hole.

 Please see the photo of the premium grade BNC. This BNC cost USD 12 each. (boy, look at those red WIMA. audio-gd really make me drooling, the amount of caps, the isolation of tranny from the signals,etc)
 This type need to drill hole.


----------



## Currawong

A lot of high-end gear still uses RCA for digital. Many professional DACs though have BNC. 

 Hmm, about 17 pages of this thread have disappeared for me...I wonder what happened?


----------



## MuuMuu

Just got one of these Zeroes through a seller on ebay. It sounded terrific -- except for the fact that there's a huge amount of hiss on the left side.

 A suggestion within the thread of re-seating the op-amp seems to have done the trick -- had to fiddle with it for a while, but eventually the bad left side did one last buzz that faded away and is now completely clear. Couldn't have figured it out w/o the thread, and I'm extremely thankful for that, but is the opamp placement really THAT picky? Looking at it the amp it seemed like it was seated completely to begin with, and I had to reinsert the thing several times before it was happy with the position.


----------



## viscosity

How would replacing the coax plug result in any improvement being as it's a digital signal? I mean for peace of mind sure... but I doubt it would make much difference

 I think im gonna keep the Earth in DAC and LT1364 in amp section.. need all the bass i can get with my akg k701s.. untill i upgrade to a seperate tube amp


----------



## ianp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I cant understand, if BNC connection is so good and cheap, why is not provided in most of the DAC ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








. This is a joke._

 

BNC connections are preferred by a number of people including the manufacturer of the Monica DACs - diyparadise - Bad Naughty Connector


----------



## taso89

Correct me if I'm wrong but your source would have to have a digital BNC out connection as well.. I don't know of any source that has a BNC out..


----------



## ccschua

Hi PP,

 I wonder if you can shed somelight regarding the coaxial vs optical. What is your view on the Lampi coaxial.


----------



## dario

but cap like this (c=1uf v>=50v) are ok for cap tweak for hdam (Burson or Audio-gd mod)
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/7175/1uf100vjj5.jpg

 ?


----------



## dario

Hi Andrea, how are you?


----------



## Stanley

Hi,

 I ordered the upgraded version of the Zero from Lawrence ("Head-fi deal") for 140$. But I thought that inside the Zero will be 2 OPA627s on Brown Dog adaptor not just one as I have. Is it allright? Head-fi deal Zero includes only one OPA627 in DAC section?

 Thanks,
 Stanley


----------



## dario

you have onother under the adaptor, check under and verify


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ineffable* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You do realize that the discrete opamps now come from audio-gd already tweaked with the film caps suggested by Burson, do you?


 Actually, the audio-gd implementation is better because power supply bypass caps should always go to ground in dual power supplies, rather than from + to -._

 

Wrong.........different tweak altogether....a clue a you need to meet sometime ...

 Peete.


----------



## Stanley

Yes, thanks  There is another OPA under the adaptor. I thought it will looks like in the picture in the guide by Currawong - 2 bigger opamps on Brown Dog adaptor so that is why I was surprised.


----------



## dario

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ineffable* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You do realize that the discrete opamps now come from audio-gd already tweaked with the film caps suggested by Burson, do you?


 Actually, the audio-gd implementation is better because power supply bypass caps should always go to ground in dual power supplies, rather than from + to -._

 

You realize that I don't have the "tweaked" revision?



*Finally what type of cap (It's sure that is 1 cap for hdam of 1uf and min 50v rating) I must buy to do the burson cap mode (that seems to give a real change)?*


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dario* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You realize that I don't have the "tweaked" revision?



*Finally what type of cap (It's sure that is 1 cap for hdam of 1uf and min 50v rating) I must buy to do the burson cap mode (that seems to give a real change)?*_

 

Relax dario, don't let the sockpuppet get under your skin. 

 The cap value you have suggested is correct (1uf 50V and up).

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A lot of high-end gear still uses RCA for digital. Many professional DACs though have BNC. 

 Hmm, about 17 pages of this thread have disappeared for me...I wonder what happened?_

 

I imagine the mods are doing there job (keeping the thread on subject)...

 I have to admit that most of my pics of late did not belong in this thread. I should have started a separate DIY thread for those projects. Sorry about that, to all concerned.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MuuMuu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got one of these Zeroes through a seller on ebay. It sounded terrific -- except for the fact that there's a huge amount of hiss on the left side.

 A suggestion within the thread of re-seating the op-amp seems to have done the trick -- had to fiddle with it for a while, but eventually the bad left side did one last buzz that faded away and is now completely clear. Couldn't have figured it out w/o the thread, and I'm extremely thankful for that, but is the opamp placement really THAT picky? Looking at it the amp it seemed like it was seated completely to begin with, and I had to reinsert the thing several times before it was happy with the position._

 

Yeah it's a head scratcher as to why re seating the chip works. The only thing I can think off is, that during assembly there may be dust or dirt causing poor connections with the socket. 

 Bent pins making poor contact....slightly off kilter installation seems to affect SQ even though it shouldn't electrically speaking. One way to solve the problem for good is to remove the sockets and solder in the HDAM/Opamp.

 I may do this when I'm finished fiddling with different types of HDAMs.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dario* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_but cap like this (c=1uf v>=50v) are ok for cap tweak for hdam (Burson or Audio-gd mod)
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/7175/1uf100vjj5.jpg

 ?_

 

Sure, those are fine.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi PP,

 I wonder if you can shed somelight regarding the coaxial vs optical. What is your view on the Lampi coaxial._

 

I think Lampy has crappy coax/TOSlink cables......I prefer glass TOSlink over BNC and Coax. Other than that I'm not too worried about it. The differences are so small with todays well made cables ....it's not worth worrying about. 

 BNC in a pro environment makes sense, you can't afford a connection coming loose....most pro gear has locking connectors where needed, the patch bay is the only place where locking jacks are not favored IIRC.


 IMHO of course 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Peete.


----------



## Brooklyn Hype

Quick question, more general than limited to the Zero.

 I live in the UK (230V AC), If I order one, should I go for the 220V one? Will that work properly without any sort of transformer?


----------



## dario

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sure, those are fine.

 Peete._

 

Ok, thanks, I will try to get them in a local shop or I will order them online...
 Now I must understand only where are the two pins that you say in onother post..

 An old your quote
  Quote:


 BA Tweak is 1 uf cap >50V connected in parallel to pins 4 and 8 (v- and V+). 
 


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Brooklyn Hype* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Quick question, more general than limited to the Zero.

 I live in the UK (230V AC), If I order one, should I go for the 220V one? Will that work properly without any sort of transformer?_

 

I think of yes, it has a switch on the back to select voltage...


----------



## Brooklyn Hype

Thanks dario.


----------



## tubes

Anyone here have a spare Zero they would like to part with?

 Phill


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Stanley* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, thanks  There is another OPA under the adaptor. I thought it will looks like in the picture in the guide by Currawong - 2 bigger opamps on Brown Dog adaptor so that is why I was surprised._

 

I forgot about that version of them. I've added a picture now of them to my guide.

 Has anyone tried the Moon HDAM yet and formed any opinion?


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone tried the Moon HDAM yet and formed any opinion?_

 

+1

 I also want to know that.


----------



## PyrotekNX

I finally replaced my bad OPA627 chip, and the amp sounds good. Unfortunately I broke the TOSLINK input in the process, and I have had a tough time tracking down a replacement part. I resorted to using my dremel to cut the back cover of the port off, grinding down the glass above the contacts, and finally soldering some leads cut from cat5 cable. Amazingly, it works perfectly, but I cannot use the standard mounting hole on the case. Anyone out there know of a parts source where I can get a replacement?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PyrotekNX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I finally replaced my bad OPA627 chip, and the amp sounds good. Unfortunately I broke the TOSLINK input in the process, and I have had a tough time tracking down a replacement part. I resorted to using my dremel to cut the back cover of the port off, grinding down the glass above the contacts, and finally soldering some leads cut from cat5 cable. Amazingly, it works perfectly, but I cannot use the standard mounting hole on the case. Anyone out there know of a parts source where I can get a replacement?_

 

Lawrence has replacements. The actual part number is Toshiba RX178B. I've seen them on eBay but can't recall where....google it and see what comes up.

 Heres a link to an eBay site that has them http://cgi.ebay.ca/TOSHIBA-FIBER-OPT...742.m153.l1262

 Peete.


----------



## MuuMuu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah it's a head scratcher as to why re seating the chip works. The only thing I can think off is, that during assembly there may be dust or dirt causing poor connections with the socket. 

 Bent pins making poor contact....slightly off kilter installation seems to affect SQ even though it shouldn't electrically speaking. One way to solve the problem for good is to remove the sockets and solder in the HDAM/Opamp.

 I may do this when I'm finished fiddling with different types of HDAMs.

 Peete._

 

It seems to hiss/crackle for about 5-10mins still after I turn the thing back on, and then (at least for now) tone down until I can't detect it -- wonder if it just needed an extended warmup.


----------



## taso89

Looks like audio-gd is having a new promotion for October, you buy one dual OPA and get a pair of nice RCA jacks with them:







 Is there any way to replace the ones in the Zero with these without soldering?


----------



## DaMnEd

None that I know of, you have to solder the wires on the PCB and on the jacks. Even if the jacks where crimp type (they are not) you would still need to solder wires on the PCB.


----------



## viscosity

I dont understand the fear in soldering. its not too difficult, and just needs practice like anything else. not saying im a pro, but you need to start somewhere


----------



## taso89

Well this is the only soldering job I want to do and the investment in equipment + learning just seems not worth it.


----------



## viscosity

sure, still its good to learn for the future.

 are you thinking about getting an hdam for your zero? I see that you own a Little Dot I+. I might pick one of those up because it has a socket for possible hdam goodness. seeing as i have a bundle of them now, I'd like to try it


----------



## taso89

Yeah as soon as the holidays in China end I'm going to order an OPA-Earth and I would love to throw an OPA-Earth or even a Moon in the I+. I'm going to make the measurements next time I open up the I+, but if the HDAM does fit, it's going to just barely make it. Might have some luck taping it to the bottom of the chassis. I'll let you know!


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *taso89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah as soon as the holidays in China end I'm going to order an OPA-Earth and I would love to throw an OPA-Earth or even a Moon in the I+. I'm going to make the measurements next time I open up the I+, but if the HDAM does fit, it's going to just barely make it. Might have some luck taping it to the bottom of the chassis. I'll let you know!_

 

Well, if u order 1 OPA Sun, u will get 1 ALS pot free, 3 RCA plug (suggest u get 2 RCA plug and 1 BNC plug) and silver coated cable. 

 Dont undermind OPA Sun, my recent listening with OPA Sun seems to give me the speed and dynamics response that I need when listening to Rock.


----------



## bundee1

I think you need to order sat least 3 single opamps in order to get the pot for free. 

 anyway haas anyone gotten the alps pot from audio-gd? I just ordered from them and they say they have 50k alps pots in stock. what effects do the different resistor values have on the sound or function of the zero?


----------



## NumpXP

can i get quick recommendation for opamp that is synergistic with hd650. I'm looking for sharper(quicker) mid and high. I just received a lot of opamps so I would like to prioritize the burn in with your recommendations.

 thanks :respect:


----------



## LeBuLLeT

lt1364? or opa-earth.


----------



## Nocturnal310

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *viscosity* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I dont understand the fear in soldering. its not too difficult, and just needs practice like anything else. not saying im a pro, but you need to start somewhere_

 

i agree...

 i practice Soldering damaged USB devices.

 but even then there's always a chance to screw up.

 always work under Lot of light and comfortable position


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *taso89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well this is the only soldering job I want to do and the investment in equipment + learning just seems not worth it._

 

They are cheap and expensive soldering station. If u use cheap soldering, be extra careful not to touch the PCB for too long (no temperature control). As for me, I invested in a USD 10 soldering station and I am quit happy with the mod.


----------



## StratCat

FWIW -

 For anyone wondering if the Alps V-Pot is currently available thru LC as a stand-alone item, and the costs incl shipping to the States:

 +++

_Dear Sir ,

 Yes, ALPS is available. 

 ALPS vol. pot is $15 including air mail. 

 I'll send Paypal invoice for your consideration. 

 Any other things you need ? USB to SPDIF adaptor , OPAMP , HDAM, Good optical cable, ELNA FOR AUDIO CAP to upgrade the cap inside the dac.......etc 

 Thank you very much ! 

 Best regards, 

 Lawrence 


 > From: XXXXXXXX
 > To: lawrencechanbig@msn.com
 > Subject: ALPS Potentiometer for Zero DAC
 > Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 08:38:02 -0500
 > 
 > 
 > <snip>_

 +++

 Not bad, if it's authentic.

 So any opinions?

 Did anyone successfully clear up thier low volume channel imbalance with one of LC's pots?

 Eddie


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_FWIW -

 For anyone wondering if the Alps V-Pot is currently available thru LC as a stand-alone item, and the costs incl shipping to the States:

 +++

Dear Sir ,

 Yes, ALPS is available. 

 ALPS vol. pot is $15 including air mail. 

 I'll send Paypal invoice for your consideration. 

 Any other things you need ? USB to SPDIF adaptor , OPAMP , HDAM, Good optical cable, ELNA FOR AUDIO CAP to upgrade the cap inside the dac.......etc 

 Thank you very much ! 

 Best regards, 

 Lawrence 


 > From: XXXXXXXX
 > To: lawrencechanbig@msn.com
 > Subject: ALPS Potentiometer for Zero DAC
 > Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 08:38:02 -0500
 > 
 > 
 > <snip>

 +++

 Not bad, if it's authentic.

 So any opinions?

 Did anyone successfully clear up thier low volume channel imbalance with one of LC's pots?

 Eddie_

 


 Yes......
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The Alps does clear up the imbalance over the stock pot IMO. I completed the dead simple swap using LC's Alps pot. More than satisfied with the result. The only issue is the shaft length means I need to buy a decent knob now...which is ok in my books. I like having a real metal ...er.....um.... knob... on my hi fi gear 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *taso89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well this is the only soldering job I want to do and the investment in equipment + learning just seems not worth it._

 

You'd be surprised to note that I use a bargain basement pencil iron (35 watt) and buy about 5 tips for it when I get a new one (every year or two). 

 Just bought a fresh role of solder after finally finishing the role I bought 10 years ago !!! 1 lb of solder for 6 bucks and a 12 dollar iron .....must have gone through 6 tips already in the last 4 years but the initial investment in gear to solder with is minimal. 

 Now if anyone should invest in a better Weller station ..it's me...and I am going to go that way soon since my rebuilds and other projects require a variable wattage setting....ever try to solder the lug of a large aluminum heat sink into a pcb with a 35 watt iron ? It isn't easy. I can't get away with the cheap iron anymore because of that, but have managed to do quite a few things with the humble 35 watt cheap POS from Radio Shack 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 You never know when you'll need a soldering iron to fix/modify something, they come in handy with today's bevy of electronic devices. It's a good skill to have in anyones electronic repertoire IMHO. I understand your hesitation though....I had the same reservations on my first attempt many many years ago.


 Peete.


----------



## DaMnEd

I use the Aoyue 2900 (70W) temp. control station, cheap, reliable, many tips, even 0.1mm (!!!) conical for SMD stuff. Ah, and the handle is very thin, something I find critical for me, I hate bulky handles that obstruct way to much. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The tips contain the heating element, so no need to open the handle/iron if the heating element appends to fail. 

 You can buy one for about 60 USD, this is very reasonable for such a station imho.

 But if your starting, a cheap (10/15 USD) iron from a local electronics store will do just fine, avoid the radioshack irons.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I use the Aoyue 2900 (70W) temp. control station, cheap, reliable, many tips, even 0.1mm (!!!) conical for the critical SMD stuff. Ah, and the handle is very thin, something I find critical for me, I hate bulky handles that obstruct way to much. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The tips contain the heating element, so no need to open the handle/iron if the heating element appends to fail. 

 You can buy one for about 60 USD, this is very reasonable for such a station imho._

 

Agreed...this is my next step up the quality ladder WRT quality tools.

 Where did you get the station from DaMnEd ? I'm thinking the 60 US Weller station from partsexpress but haven't decided yet. The added flexibility and tip selection for the job at hand is something I truly need if I plan on any smd type mods.....which I'm sure to run into at some point (been lucky so far, all my stuff has hole through pcbs).

 Peete.


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Agreed...this is my next step up the quality ladder WRT quality tools.

 Where did you get the station from DaMnEd ? I'm thinking the 60 US Weller station from partsexpress but haven't decided yet. The added flexibility and tip selection for the job at hand is something I truly need if I plan on any smd type mods.....which I'm sure to run into at some point (been lucky so far, all my stuff has hole through pcbs).

 Peete._

 

Purchased mine from a local store here in Portugal.

 Since you are in the US, you can find them here: Stan Rubinstein Assoc., Inc. > Aoyue 2900 Lead Free Compatible Station (62$). (If you search this station on Amazon.com you will find the same vendor selling them there too)

 And tips, well, here you have all the 28 options 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




: http://www.aoyue.com/down/soldering%...%20element.jpg

 Picture of the station:


----------



## AudioPhewl

Peete - you'll probably find your tips last longer if you were using a lower-wattage iron. I use an 18W for day-to-day messing around, and my tips last an eternity in comparison to the 30W iron I keep for bigger jobs...

 Plus, you can keep it in contact with pads longer before it helps them lift 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Alps does clear up the imbalance over the stock pot IMO. I completed the dead simple swap using LC's Alps pot. More than satisfied with the result. The only issue is the shaft length means I need to buy a decent knob now...which is ok in my books. I like having a real metal ...er.....um.... knob... on my hi fi gear 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Yeah, I was planning a knob upgrade too, so I’ll do a quick poke around the net, and then if I don't find some other knob I more prefer, I'll just get the same knob Pench used from Parts ConneXion 'cuz I know that one does go really well aesthetically with the Zero, and I like nice aesthetics and tactile feedback.

 I remember someone (prior to Dario,) way back in the thread, thinking they had some imbalance issues even after upgrading to the ALPS pot, but I don’t remember if this was resolved or if it was an isolated issue, which is why I posed the question.

 I can’t find LC’s pot on the ALPS U.S.A. site, but it could be a “regional only” or “OEM supply” for all we know. But even if it were to be a knock-off, if it works well and fits the tight footprint I’m happy to grab it. At least I know it’ll fit.

 Eddie


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Peete - you'll probably find your tips last longer if you were using a lower-wattage iron. I use an 18W for day-to-day messing around, and my tips last an eternity in comparison to the 30W iron I keep for bigger jobs...

 Plus, you can keep it in contact with pads longer before it helps them lift 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl._

 

Thanks for the ....uh.....tips AP 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, always appreciated !!! 

 50 cent tips don't last and are OK for light duty IMO. My usage would be considered heavy by any standard though. A dedicated quality variable wattage station makes the most sense for me, rather than playing musical pencil irons. 

 Thanks DaMnEd !!!

 I like that station immensely after checking it out.....It's a terrific value considering what Weller has to offer in that price range. I think I'll buy myself one.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Peete.


----------



## StratCat

Ha!

 I would've definitely recommended the Weller WES51 station at ~100 bux street.

 BUT,

 After scoping out the Aoyue, noting it's price, THEN seeing it's COO, I totally agree the Aoyue better fits the spirit of the ZERO and this thread! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It's going to be an interesting century...


----------



## Matias

OPA627 inside.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Nice pic !!!

 How are you liking the Zero with 627 Matias ?


 Peete.


----------



## ccschua

As we move up the value chain, the micro details become more and more important. I am really impressed with the output sound quality of ZERO DAC (considering the mod that I have done is nothing). The first 5 seconds of listening will tell whether the system setup meets the golden ears.

 I had been wondering regarding some bottleneck along the digital and analogue chain upto the amplifier. After reading all the articles about transport, jitter, LC XO clock and tranmission line theory, I begin to wonder if I can unlock the potential bottleneck to bring greater transparency and detailing to the ZERO DAC.

 What I am lacking is a oscilloscope to check the signal received by the CS8416, whether the square wave is really a square or not. and also whether the jitter is present due to the cheap XO clock (clock signal will change with differnt temperature). The advantage of LC Clock is obvious i.e. greater microdynamics and transparency. 

 To overcome that I think the best is to do an AB with the well known transport such as CEC TL51 and to see if really my present transport require an upgrade.

 I just wonder how u guys think about the digital feeding to the ZERO.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

ccshua you have big big plans for this Zero don't you? Can't wait for your finished product.


----------



## DCT

The DIY Dac (Lampucera) mod by Lukasz is pretty good. I bought one on ebay and replace all SMD with OS-CON capacitors. I like the sound of this Dac better than the zero. You can give this one a try it only cost 74US


----------



## ccschua

I was trying to compare if my Sony dvd player is doing its jobs as a transport. What I did was to compare it with this usb to SPDIF converter (foobar2000 player) with Monster coaxial cable.

http://www.ha-info.com/Product/spdif.htm

 In the end, I dont really detect any difference between cd/dvd player and direct ASIO4ALL outputusing foobar.

 conclusion : both the cd/dvd and usb/spdif performs the same.

 The other suggestion is the ZERO DAC CS8416 is NOT sensitive to jitter. (yes, it has its own PLL)


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DCT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The DIY Dac (Lampucera) mod by Lukasz is pretty good. I bought one on ebay and replace all SMD with OS-CON capacitors. I like the sound of this Dac better than the zero. You can give this one a try it only cost 74US_

 

why dont show us the photo of your own DAC instead of claiming the sound better. better in what sense


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeBuLLeT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ccshua you have big big plans for this Zero don't you? Can't wait for your finished product._

 

all that is left is capacitor mod job. 

 1. replace 4 cap supply to DAC and receive with Sanyo OSCON
 2. replace KLE cap with ELNA.
 3. replace yellow cap with WIMA red cap
 4. cap, cap , cap.
 5. BNC plug to replace Coaxial plug.

 and I am done.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_why dont show us the photo of your own DAC instead of claiming the sound better. better in what sense_

 

I have the same DAC sitting around here somewhere. Stock vs. stock Zero, the Zero gave a more pleasing sound, wider soundstage, and had more depth.

 The CS4397 based DAC had more immediate detail. The top-end felt stronger. This was intensified by the removal/bypassing of the output capacitors. It's a good little project for the money. But it's not as good as the tweaked Zero with HDAMs. IMO, of course...

 ~Phewl.


----------



## brandnewgame

I've read plenty of this thread, but not the whole thing. Can anyone tell me if the Zero with OPA627's pairs nicely with the AKG K701s? My other option seems to be waiting for a second hand Heed CanAmp, though as I live in the UK I might never find a good deal for it. If there's a better option I'd love to hear about it


----------



## AudioPhewl

Not sure if it helps, but my Zero is feeding my Stax energiser and holds its own quite nicely 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 Am obviously not using the Zero's headphone amplifier, but it drove my 600ohm Senns nicely.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## liquid steel

And the saga is over. 

 After a month and a half, I finally have a working ZERO 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ordered HD600's and a ZERO from Lawrence
 HD600's arrived in 4 days
 Amp Arrived a week and a half-ish later
 DAC opamp was in backwards, and toasted
 Ordered 2x OPA627 and a Dual mono PCB off Ebay
 Waited 2 weeks for delivery, and only the OPAmps were included (*facepalm*)
 Waited a week for the seller to respond and ship the damn PCB
 Waited a week for it to arrive

 IT IS FINALLY WORKING! I must say, it is well worth the investment (although a month less of waiting would have been nice ). Sound is vastly improved over the headphone out on my HK AVR146. Simply incredible.

 A few glory shots 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



http://i34.tinypic.com/2mxq5qx.jpg
http://i33.tinypic.com/1g0ikx.jpg
http://i34.tinypic.com/23tqgqb.jpg
http://i35.tinypic.com/9hjqf9.jpg

 Just glad I finally have everything in working order. Time to get lost in Lotus again <3

 edit: OK, one decent shot that isn't resized  http://deathmobile.net/brian/pics/goods.JPG


----------



## LeBuLLeT

Congrats liquid steel. Because of the Zero I listen to music a lot more now, what about you?


----------



## liquid steel

Unfortunately my music listening time has been cut down severely this semester. Taking 20 credits of classes + working 15 hours a week + ladyfriend means I have very little time to just sit back and relax.

 If I am at home, however, music is playing. Always. I can't imagine I will listen more, but I can definitely say I will listen clearer


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *brandnewgame* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've read plenty of this thread, but not the whole thing. Can anyone tell me if the Zero with OPA627's pairs nicely with the AKG K701s? My other option seems to be waiting for a second hand Heed CanAmp, though as I live in the UK I might never find a good deal for it. If there's a better option I'd love to hear about it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Yes, they do. They have, as Penchum describes, a more "tube-like" sound which is a lot nicer to listen to I found than my Apogee Duet. Get a HDAM if you can though, as you'll get a lot more out of your K701s with it. I hope you have a dedicated amp for them too, or at least are planning to get one in the future.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *brandnewgame* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've read plenty of this thread, but not the whole thing. Can anyone tell me if the Zero with OPA627's pairs nicely with the AKG K701s? My other option seems to be waiting for a second hand Heed CanAmp, though as I live in the UK I might never find a good deal for it. If there's a better option I'd love to hear about it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hi -

 I'm not familiar with the Heed CanAmp so I took a quick look at the manufacturer's website. I'm not sure what you're looking to do specifically. Are looking for amplification or DA conversion? Or both? 

 The ZERO is an inexpensive good sounding DAC that also has an adequate (for the money, many would say good) HP Amp built-in.

 I'm using the early stock model ZERO (non-OPA627) with the K701's in my sig, and the built-in HP amp is "adequate", IMHO. It drives the K701's to pretty much the highest listening level I'd care to use, and does sound decent, but there's really no headroom left in the stock HP Amp with the AKG's, vs, say, my Denon D2000's. 

 Actually, I'll be upgrading op-amps in the HP section this week, and over the near future attempting to get the most I can out of it before I start considering externally amping my cans off the ZERO's DAC section.

 I see your using an audio card I'm not familiar with, and it's labled "professional". So I won't comment on yours specifically, but it's pretty safe to say the ZERO's HP Amp section trounces computer SC's pretty easily. I know it blew my Turtle Beach away as well as a Headroom Total BitHead USB portable amp I had.

 I'm not trying to dissuade you. To the contrary, I really like and recommend the ZERO. But it's primarily a good DAC value that has a decent built-in HP Amp, and serves as a good flexible starting point for somone needing a DAC or a HP Amp. For K701's to reach thier fullest potential most peeps would probably want to add an external amp at some point. That's just the nature of this hobby. For me, it was a huge step up from a computer sound card in SQ.


----------



## DCT

Here is some picture of the Zero and DIY dac 
Attachment 8899

Attachment 8901

Attachment 8903


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## DCT

all i did to the DIY was replaced all SMD with electrolytic capacitors and replace the stock opamp with the SUN HDAM. IMO I find bass to be more powerful than the zero and sound more energetic. I prefer to listen to R&B on the DIY dac


----------



## oofie810

Anyone order from Lawrence during the last couple of weeks? I ordered and paid for mine 8 days ago, but I haven't heard from him since then. He said he'll ship it out last weekend (10/4-10/5), but like I said, haven't heard from him since last week. Is this normal?


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## DaMnEd

From Lawrence that's normal.


----------



## oofie810

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From Lawrence that's normal._

 

thanks. Now, I don't know if I should be relieved or what 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I hope he updates me this week.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From Lawrence that's normal._

 

++1


----------



## juswyq

How does the zero sound with a K701/AH-D2k/5k? Interested in getting the cans, Pretty sure my Darkvoice 337 wont do them justice (correct me if im wrong), but the only other amp i own is a ZERO(with EARTH, LT1364s soon). Also, how does it match up against a crossroads edge amp with the same cans?


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *juswyq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How does the zero sound with a K701/AH-D2k/5k? Interested in getting the cans, Pretty sure my Darkvoice 337 wont do them justice (correct me if im wrong), but the only other amp i own is a ZERO(with EARTH, LT1364s soon). Also, how does it match up against a crossroads edge amp with the same cans?_

 

I'm not familiar with the DV, but I'd have to imagine it would blow the doors off the Zero's amp - the Zero amp is good FOR THE PRICE, but IMO it gets outclassed by every dedicated amp I've heard at or above the same price. HOnestly where the Zero shimes (IMO) is as a DAC with the added bonus of a decent amp. Even without the amp the DAC would be a good deal - the amp is merely icing (again, IMO).


----------



## juswyq

Ah, i see. The problem is, the DV doesn't have good synergy with low impedance headphones like the K701 or Denons (or so reviews say), so i'm wondering if pairing them with the ZERO instead wold be a better choice. Or would i be better off just getting a crossroads edge?

 Thanks for the reply.


----------



## juswyq

Oh, input from stratcat would be good, seeing he owns and uses exactly what i'm contemplating to buy..


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## ScottieB

YEah frankly my knowledge is limited and I was just speaking generally - I've read many times that the 701's can be tough to drive properly - so who knows, maybe the Zero hits some sweet spot that they sing with. It is certainly possible. But I can tell you my MKIII blows the doors off the Zero's built-in amp - like no contest. But again, I don't have the 701s. Good luck, and I'm curious to hear what you find out!


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## juswyq

Yup, i see that you own the HD600s. I have the HD650s; these cans are notoriously hard to drive which probably isn't a good match for the zero 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just a conjecture from an amateur "audiophile" like me. Haha. Thanks again for your input!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *juswyq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yup, i see that you own the HD600s. I have the HD650s; these cans are notoriously hard to drive which probably isn't a good match for the zero 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just a conjecture from an amateur "audiophile" like me. Haha. Thanks again for your input!_

 

The 650's and the DV337 should be a great match........What ScottieB says is absolutely right, the Zero is known for the DAC section feeding a dedicated amp. The built in H/Amp is merely adequate and shouldn't be the focus per se.

 That being said it does a decent job with both types of can (low and high impedance). 

 Peete.


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## Sganzerla

I'm still using my Zero DAC as headphone amp for my K701 and noticed that between 200 and 250 hours things got even better here.

 The music suddenly looks more robust and there is better placement of the instruments. Again, it may be placebo but the difference looked imediately obvious to me, as when the first big change around 50/100 hours occured.

 Don't know if anyone agrees but tought it could be interesting to put here.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm still using my Zero DAC as headphone amp for my K701 and noticed that between 200 and 250 hours things got even better here.

 The music suddenly looks more robust and there is better placement of the instruments. Again, it may be placebo but the difference looked imediately obvious to me, as when the first big change around 50/100 hours occured.

 Don't know if anyone agrees but tought it could be interesting to put here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Were the K701's bought at the same time as your Zero ? The 701's need lots and lots of burn in time to settle...some say in excess of 600 hours. 

 Peete.


----------



## Sganzerla

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Were the K701's bought at the same time as your Zero ? The 701's need lots and lots of burn in time to settle...some say in excess of 600 hours. 

 Peete._

 

 When I bought this DAC, my K701 had around 800 hours. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I read once or twice people saying K701 needed more than 1000 hours to fully burn in but I don't know if they're crazy or not.

 By the way my Zero is HDAM version.


----------



## tubes

A question about the Zero Dac, will it be better than the analog out from a typical DVD player? The reason I ask is I am putting together a very basic headphone system and am using a DVD player as a source, I would add the Zero as a headphone amp and use the Dac section as an upgrade over the DVD analog outs. Otherwise I would get a headphone amp and use the DVD player straight into the headamp. Thanks.

 Phill


----------



## Pricklely Peete

What's the DVD player ? If it's a bargain basement model then yes the Zero's number cruncher will be superior in every way...but it depends on the actual DVD player. 

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When I bought this DAC, my K701 had around 800 hours. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I read once or twice people saying K701 needed more than 1000 hours to fully burn in but I don't know if they're crazy or not.

 By the way my Zero is HDAM version._

 

Must be further burn in of the HDAM is my guess. Is it the audio-gd Earth module ? These seem to take 200 hours or more vs the first generation HDAM taking half that time to settle. 

 I seem to remember Pench mentioning this. 

 My first gen HDAM from LC is no more.....bumped into my head fi stack Sunday night, knocked over an earth module into the analog regs...sparky sparky...didn't get to the darn power switch fast enough....baked right channel on the HDAM... ARGH 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That'll learn me for being clumsy........sigh..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Sganzerla

My Zero has Lawrence's HDAM.


----------



## tubes

I don't know the model # but yeah it's just a cheap Sony universal player.

 Phill


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tubes* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't know the model # but yeah it's just a cheap Sony universal player.

 Phill_

 

I would have to say the Zero would be a step up, especially with an HDAM in the dac section.

 Tough to say for sure but SONY's are kinda dry and cold in their presentation IIRC. The Zero is on the warm and lively side.

 Peete.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *juswyq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh, input from stratcat would be good, seeing he owns and uses exactly what i'm contemplating to buy.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You rang??? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hi -

 IMHO, the SQ of the ZERO when configured as a DAC feeding it's HP Amp is very good with both the K701's and the D2000's.

 The stock HP amp will push the D2000's very easily, but I would qualify the K701's as "adequate". And by "adequate" I do not mean "mediocre". The SQ is actually very good, IMO. But the K701's leave little headroom, where the D2000's still have plenty to spare.

 I'll explain: For most listening I do on the K701's I'll have the volume pot set at 30-70%, or so. Very rarely, but if desired, I can use all 100% of the pot (albeit for only a very short time). With the D2000's, OTOH, I can barely use more than 40-50% of the pot, max, and that's really pushing it. So that's why I'm claiming the HP section is "adequate" for the 701's. The SQ is good, but it's obvious they are running out of headroom.

 I do want to stress the SQ is very good with both cans. A huge leap up from both my SC and Total Bithead amp which I was using before I found the ZERO. Good soundstage and imaging. Excellent dynamic range. Impactfull. Dark silence. Definitely a SS sound, and on the bright/crisp side, rather than dark/soft.

 I’d say the Zero’s strength is it’s ability to provide a decent entry-level DAC that provides an adequate listening experience via the HP amp. I used the Zero as a quick and cheap way to get going and have a basic test tool to demo the headphones I was buying, knowing I’d likely upgrade to an external amp once I got my cans sorted out. It has served me well.

 To be fair, tho, I could likely live w/o an external amp with my SR225’s and D2000’s, but am getting anxious to see what an external amp will do to kick up the K701’s. I’d also add, that if I wasn’t hanging around here getting the audio bug, I’d be perfectly happy with the Zero/K701 combo, as is. I guess I’m saying “It’s listenable and enjoyable”. 

 But then, we got that bug, right? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW, if there's some specific SQ question you like to ask about the ZERO and either of these cans, feel free, and I'll try to give you my best impression.


----------



## StratCat

Well,

 Finally got my LT1364's on the way for the HPA...yeah, I'm a slo-poke. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But the reason I'm posting: There was a Headier who posted a way back in the thread (100-150 pgs?) that he used a high current output OPA in his Zero's HPA to drive his K701's (very well, he claimed).

 I don't suppose anyone would remember the poster or the chip, eh?

 Didn't think so.

 O.K., I'll move right along.

 /me contemplates the idea of sifting thru several hundred pages of the thread and isn't too thrilled with the idea.


----------



## Currawong

StratCat: I intend to re-write my Zero guide into a DIY guide and start a new thread in the DIY forums for it.

 The local electronics store has Simlic caps of correct requirements so I'm going to go beyond my guide, which isn't really good discussion for the review thread.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_StratCat: I intend to re-write my Zero guide into a DIY guide and start a new thread in the DIY forums for it.

 The local electronics store has Simlic caps of correct requirements so I'm going to go beyond my guide, which isn't really good discussion for the review thread._

 

Fair enough, this thread, as good as it is, has become unwieldly, that's for sure.

 Now what this thread *really* needs is it's own dedicated search engine! LOL


----------



## gavszero

Has anyone ordered the OPA-Sun v2 & OPA-Moon and tested them ? If so what are your first impression of them ..

 Gavin ...


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Fair enough, this thread, as good as it is, has become unwieldly, that's for sure.

 Now what this thread *really* needs is it's own dedicated search engine! LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

What's worse is, you can't search for "zero" in thread titles because it's considered a common word. Might have to drop a PM to Jude about that...


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## Pricklely Peete

Hey Gav...you've got a PM from me.

 Peete.


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## oofie810

Anyone here thinking of selling their Zero? I havent' heard from Lawrence for more than a week now and I'm thinking of just asking for a refund.

 EDIT: He actually replied just now and said he went on vacation to Thailand and he will be shipping out my Zero tomorrow.


----------



## seaice

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gavszero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone ordered the OPA-Sun v2 & OPA-Moon and tested them ? If so what are your first impression of them ..

 Gavin ..._

 

I ordered Earth, Moon and Sun v2 several days ago... When delivered I will compare each other (and also OPA627). Is there any burn-in necessary for them?

 If there is someone from the Czech Republic (especially Prague), I can lend them for testing in the near future.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *seaice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered Earth, Moon and Sun v2 several days ago... When delivered I will compare each other (and also OPA627). Is there any burn-in necessary for them?

 If there is someone from the Czech Republic (especially Prague), I can lend them for testing in the near future._

 

Yes they need at least 100 hours or more before they settle down.

 Peete.


----------



## ccschua

Sun is more detail, vocal more forward and the bass attack and response is more as compared to Earth.

 Earth is more natural sounding, deeper bass (not necessary but attack).


----------



## juswyq

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *seller90* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,


 I have some advice to ask you guys. I'm looking for a dac and amp for my senn 650. What do you suggest, the Zero alone? Or the DIY dac a fellow headfier prefers to the Zero, plus a separate amp? Or some other dac and amp?_

 

zero plus dedicated amp. zero doesnt have enough juice to power the hd650s properly, it'll sound quite crappy. nevertheless, the DAC section on the zero is quite good for the cash. Personally i use a zero -> darkvoice 337 for my 650s.

 And yeah, sun v2 and moon do exist. newer versions by same manufacturer. mine are coming soon!


----------



## ccschua

I think probably malaysia group will review the Moon first. The OPA has got some good review.


----------



## falke401

I sent payment to Lawrence for my Zero on august 21 and STILL do not have a working zero....This is getting old.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *falke401* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I sent payment to Lawrence for my Zero on august 21 and STILL do not have a working zero....This is getting old._

 

No doubt... how many emails have you sent him in that time? and has he responded at all?


----------



## falke401

I have a total of 12 email's sent. He has responded to 7 of them.


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## direcow

Quick Update: The Earth + 2x Sun in my Zero is improving by each listen... it's probably the burn-in, but the bass is back and beautiful... I suppose there's just enough power to power the D5000, but probably nothing more power hungry.


----------



## oofie810

I got an email from him today that he'll be shipping out Zeros tomorrow. Falke, did you order a new one or a replacement part? By the way, this was his first email in over a week.


----------



## falke401

I should be getting replacement parts. Both the main and headphone board coming.


----------



## oofie810

Well, I do hope he sends out our orders tomorrow. If he doesn't, i might just ask for a refund and order from ebay.


----------



## falke401

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oofie810* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I do hope he sends out our orders tomorrow. If he doesn't, i might just ask for a refund and order from ebay._

 

If I knew what I know now, I would have just gotten one off of ebay.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *falke401* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I knew what I know now, I would have just gotten one off of ebay._

 

Very sorry to hear this. 

 I had a very good experience: 2 days to ship, and received it 5 days (3 business) days later, for a total of 1 calender week complete turn-around, HK to the States (Chicago).

 Then again, I ordered from him thru his ebay store for my initial contact, and then followed up via email to fine tune and finalize my order.

 Even tho I'm sure he would prefer to do business person-to-person w/o the encumberance (and expense) of ebay, I always feel a seller has a much higher motivation to perform when his ebay rep's at stake. I'm not saying anyone's crooked or lazy, per se, just that one's ebay rep can be a very good motivating factor.

 JMHO


----------



## oofie810

I too wish that I bought from him thru ebay, but I when I ordered mine, and I think until now, he doesn't have any items on his ebay. Oh well, gotta keep my fingers crossed that he ships them out Wednesday in HK.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *direcow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Quick Update: The Earth + 2x Sun in my Zero is improving by each listen... it's probably the burn-in, but the bass is back and beautiful... I suppose there's just enough power to power the D5000, but probably nothing more power hungry._

 

I've gone one better and ordered a C-2C all-discrete headphone amp from Audio-gd. I hope it will show up my LD MKV. At least it will remove all the opamps in the chain.


----------



## grkn

Hey, is there any consensus on the "best" combination of OPAMPS for the ZERO? Earth in DAC and LT1364s in the AMP (to drive AKG K701)? What do you recommend? 

 I tried to bypass the DAC opamp, but I lost too much punch, even though detail and clarity was excellent.


----------



## Currawong

grkn: You've got it in one. Before trying the HDAM, it was BB OPA627's in the DAC. The LT1364 seem to be mostly neutral in the hp/pre-amp.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grkn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, is there any consensus on the "best" combination of OPAMPS for the ZERO? Earth in DAC and LT1364s in the AMP (to drive AKG K701)? What do you recommend? 

 I tried to bypass the DAC opamp, but I lost too much punch, even though detail and clarity was excellent._

 

Earth in the dac is a VERY good choice. 

 For the amp, sure, the LT1364 is good, but to me nothing special really. I use the LT1469 nowdays for a very unfatiguing sound with brighter cans like RS1/AD2000, but it works well for HD600 also. The LT1469 could work for K701 I think if you find Earth+LT1364 to be a bit bright.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grkn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, is there any consensus on the "best" combination of OPAMPS for the ZERO? Earth in DAC and LT1364s in the AMP (to drive AKG K701)? What do you recommend? 

 I tried to bypass the DAC opamp, but I lost too much punch, even though detail and clarity was excellent._

 

Hi -

 Yeah, as stated above, consensus seems to be OPA627 in the DAC and LT1364 in the HPA for an all op amp solution, and HDAM in the DAC again with LT1364 in the HPA for a discrete/op amp combo solution, with the HDAM/LT1364 combo being the preferred WTG.

 As for me, I'm still running the stock OPA2604/NE5532 combo, but have LT1364's due for delivery today for the HPA. Still haven’t decided what I want to do for the DAC section.

 BTW, what do you mean you "bypassed the DAC"?

 Pulled the signal right off the AD1852 (DAC converter)?

 Bypass caps? 

 Just wondering.

 Thx.


----------



## Currawong

Stratcat: It's on the Lampizator page, from where we got a bunch of ideas.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Earth in the dac is a VERY good choice. 

 For the amp, sure, the LT1364 is good, but to me nothing special really. I use the LT1469 nowdays for a very unfatiguing sound with brighter cans like RS1/AD2000, but it works well for HD600 also. The LT1469 could work for K701 I think if you find Earth+LT1364 to be a bit bright._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Earth in the dac is a VERY good choice. 

 For the amp, sure, the LT1364 is good, but to me nothing special really. I use the LT1469 nowdays for a very unfatiguing sound with brighter cans like RS1/AD2000, but it works well for HD600 also. The LT1469 could work for K701 I think if you find Earth+LT1364 to be a bit bright._

 

Hi -

 I was looking at the LT1469's for the HPA when I recently placed my order for the LT1364's, but passed when I saw the LT1469 were only spec’d at 22mA max output current vs 50mA for the LT1364’s [at the same output voltage (+/- 7.5V)]. 

 My K701’s are hard to drive as it is with the LT1364’s.

 This was in a Newark order, so I may try the LT1469’s as samples, though.

 I see you have some cans that require a bit of power. Did you notice any difference in output levels or drive pwr between the two chips?

 BTW, someone here reported they were having good results driving K701’s with a chip that had a relatively high current output. IIRC, it was in excess of 100mA. I wish I could find that post. It’s maybe 150-200 pages back, unfortunately.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Stratcat: It's on the Lampizator page, from where we got a bunch of ideas._

 

Thx.

 That's what I thought the poster may have meant, but wasn't sure. Ah, I see the signal’s pulled off one of the caps, though it looks too big to be a decoupler. But yeah, that's what I meant: Grabbing the signal from the DAC chip prior to the op amp/HDAM which is acting as the DAC chip’s I/V converter stage further downstream.

 I would've expected the bypass to provide the "purest" output to an external amp, but when I was looking up spec sheets for my IC order the other night I noted the AD1862 output current is 1mA. I thought that would drive an external amp with high input impedance. Maybe I was wrong.

 Anyone know the input impedance of a typical external headphone amp? Ah...I'll just look it up.


----------



## grkn

The sound was indeed quite pure pulling the signal right off the DAC chip, but also somehow to "weak", bass felt anemic. The headphone section also lost the DAC preamping doing this, and headphone output was weakened in the same way as the lineout. I've read that another headfier had the same experience doing just the bypass, so I think one needs to do the full Lampizator mod using a tube or his digital version "the fetishizator..." for it to fly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






 I'll grab the earth then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hopefully Ill receive some LT1364 samples soon.

 BTW Any news on how the Sun V2 performs compared to the Earth? And I need the dual earth, oooor?


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grkn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The sound was indeed quite pure pulling the signal right off the DAC chip, but also somehow to "weak", bass felt anemic. The headphone section also lost the DAC preamping doing this, and headphone output was weakened in the same way as the lineout. I've read that another headfier had the same experience doing just the bypass, so I think one needs to do the full Lampizator mod using a tube or his digital version "the fetishizator..." for it to fly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 I'll grab the earth then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hopefully Ill receive some LT1364 samples soon.

 BTW Any news on how the Sun V2 performs compared to the Earth? And I need the dual earth, oooor?_

 

Thx.

 Glad you guys tried this. Apparently then, the DAC chip has to have a buffer/amp stage immediately after, to effectively interface the DAC output, it would seem. 

 It's been a long time since I've done component level work, and I've never done audio design, but after looking at a little DAC design architecture earlier this week, it does appear the DAC chip's signal output is generally buffered by an I/V type stage (i.e. an op amp, tube) immediately after any compensating discrete components .

 This then makes sense as to why the DAC op amp has such a large effect on sound quality; Now I wonder if a given DAC chip might have an affinity for certain op amps?


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grkn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 [...]

 And I need the dual earth, oooor?_

 

Ooops. Sorry. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yes, you need a dual HDAM. There is only one DAC output stage device which processes both signal (audio) channels.


----------



## oofie810

Yesss! Lawrence just emailed thetracking number for my Zero! So, is it a week from HK to california?


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi -

 I was looking at the LT1469's for the HPA when I recently placed my order for the LT1364's, but passed when I saw the LT1469 were only spec’d at 22mA max output current vs 50mA for the LT1364’s [at the same output voltage (+/- 7.5V)]. 

 My K701’s are hard to drive as it is with the LT1364’s.

 This was in a Newark order, so I may try the LT1469’s as samples, though.

 I see you have some cans that require a bit of power. Did you notice any difference in output levels or drive pwr between the two chips?

 BTW, someone here reported they were having good results driving K701’s with a chip that had a relatively high current output. IIRC, it was in excess of 100mA. I wish I could find that post. It’s maybe 150-200 pages back, unfortunately._

 

I have not noticed any "problems" with using the LT1469 over LT1364 using any of my headphones. There is NO problem getting enough volume that's for sure. The volume can get VERY high even with the LT1469. I haven't noticed any large change in sound quality either, just a change in sound signature when switching between them.

 I do not know anything about the specs of different op-amps, I only listen to the sound they produce.


----------



## grkn

Someone should REALLY try this mod, it would perhaps even better than HDAMs?

_Fetishizator Discrete Output Stage for I out DAC types.

 All current output DACS like TDA1540, TDA1541, TDA1541A, Burr Brown PCM63, PCM58, PCM1702, PCM1704, PCM1794, and Analog Devices AD1862 and many more - should benefit greatly from substitution of the typical op-amp with the Fetishizator. The difference between FET and tube is a question of taste and preferences, but Fetishizator against op-amp this is a knockout.

 Benefits of using Fetishizator:

 * Sounds great
 * It is a pure, simple, kosher device, just ONE active part between the DAC and the amp !
 * Uses available 12 V DC as supply, no need for additional transformer with 160 V DC supplies.
 * Does not require heaters
 * consumes small power
 * fits in tight spaces
 * costs nothing (I paid for mine 2 Euro)
 * runs cold
 * does not require endless rolling of various NOS models of FET.

 Down sides of Fetishizator

 * it is not cool to have, no pride of ownership
 * sounds a touch sterile
 * it takes longer to build. in my case - 4 x longer._

Fet-ishizator

 Cheers,Johan


----------



## Baltozar

AD1852 (it is in Zero) is V-out DAC. Fetishizator works with I-out DACs. 

 BTW I ordered Zero with HDAM and LT1364 from Lawrence. And today he said my parcel is on the way. =)


----------



## grkn

V, I, what's the difference  hehe


----------



## Baltozar

"V" is a voltage. "I" is a current. There are different types of output. I-type likes very low resistance connected to the DAC legs (short circuit). And U-type likes high resistance. 
 Somebody with better english can help you. =))


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've gone one better and ordered a C-2C all-discrete headphone amp from Audio-gd. I hope it will show up my LD MKV. At least it will remove all the opamps in the chain._

 

Hi CC,

 Now this amp I've had my eye on as well.......look forward to your impressions CC.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grkn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_V, I, what's the difference  hehe_

 

The difference is an amp that works and one that doesn't....the current has to be converted to voltage or you get no sound through the analog outputs (typical standard for digital is 2.0V ).

 Some are 2.5V, some are 1.5V.....the key factor to remember here is the output has to be converted to V from I (current).

 The passive mod works because the DAC (AD1852) can output V rather than I. Personally I find passive DACs to be rather dry, analytical and sterile....although that is an ever changing end result as DACs become more sophisticated with each new generation spun. Current DVD chips do away with outboard clock synch and some new generation DAC chips (CS4397) are following suit. This is a great step forward IMO. The simpler the signal path the better the SQ IMO.....that being said we aren't quite there yet with regards to on die (chip) features being better than purpose built discrete analog stages.

 Theres something to be said for the marriage of "old tech" class A stages doing I/V conversion and amplification.....the HDAM works very well with the Zero and I suspect the designer behind it knew that old lesson very well. 


 Peete.


----------



## grkn

So in summary the HDAM is the way to go with the Zero, anyways, ordered a dual earth HDAM and two LT1364s, I think it'll do 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Then it's just to decide whether to test the Denon D2000, currently I have the K701


----------



## StratCat

Very nice!

 Just got home to find my LT1364's left at my front door, and an email from Lawrence stating my ALPS pot has been shipped.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oofie810* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yesss! Lawrence just emailed thetracking number for my Zero! So, is it a week from HK to california?_

 

When I orderd my Zero sevaral months ago it was shipped on a Friday, and I got it that Wednesday. But it sat in HK over the weekend.

 Seeing as this is the middle of the week, you could get it as quickly as 3 days if it doesn't spend time in customs (mine didn't). IIRC, my unit came thru San Fran.

 Put your tracking number in the U.S.P.S. sytem too, mine already shows. Don't forget HK time is, ~12 hrs ahead of us.


----------



## oofie810

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When I orderd my Zero sevaral months ago it was shipped on a Friday, and I got it that Wednesday. But it sat in HK over the weekend.

 Seeing as this is the middle of the week, you could get it as quickly as 3 days if it doesn't spend time in customs (mine didn't). IIRC, my unit came thru San Fran.

 Put your tracking number in the U.S.P.S. sytem too, mine already shows. Don't forget HK time is, ~12 hrs ahead of us._

 

Nice! yeah, did check usps just now and it shows up. If it goes thru SF, that might mean it would be here faster. Oh man, my first decent rig 3 years after signing up


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grkn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So in summary the HDAM is the way to go with the Zero, anyways, ordered a dual earth HDAM and two LT1364s, I think it'll do 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Then it's just to decide whether to test the Denon D2000, currently I have the K701 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

For this DAC ...yes. It'll do for now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Just posting for my sig.

 Nobody is asking where to buy the Zero these days... I wonder if demand is dropping, or whether my random posts are enough for them to find it all for themselves...

 I do feel like a prune for posting again, without any worthwhile substance.

 Guess I'll warrant it a little more with this... I'm using the Zero through my Stax 4040 rig, and I'm bloody loving it! It doesn't feel like the poor relation at all... it sings nicely with the Earth HDAM module 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Theres something to be said for the marriage of "old tech" class A stages doing I/V conversion and amplification.....the HDAM works very well with the Zero and I suspect the designer behind it knew that old lesson very well. 


 Peete._

 

So Peete,

 Would you describe the Audi-gd HDAMs as more "tube- like" than the OPA2606/OPA627, or do the discrete x-sisters still retain a SS SQ?

 I haven't made my mind up as to what to do with upgrading my ZERO's DAC output stage device, but believe I prefer a more analytical SQ (probably why I like my AKG K701’s a lot). I do like a large soundstage, however.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So Peete,

 Would you describe the Audi-gd HDAMs as more "tube- like" than the OPA2606/OPA627, or do the discrete x-sisters still retain a SS SQ?

 I haven't made my mind up as to what to do with upgrading my ZERO's DAC output stage device, but believe I prefer a more analytical SQ (probably why I like my AKG K701’s a lot). I do like a large soundstage, however._

 

Uh....not like any opamp at all actually. I prefer dead nuts neutral as opposed to coloring the signal. The Earth HDAM is as neutral as it gets. You simply have to hear it to understand it's qualities...it neither sounds tubey nor SS. It's perfect IMHO.

 Opamps just don't match up in this case, they always have a caveat...the Earth HDAM and LC's HDAM don't have any negatives that I can hear and I've been trying to nail down something for months on end.....HDAM simply rocks in this situation (or use).

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just posting for my sig.

 Nobody is asking where to buy the Zero these days... I wonder if demand is dropping, or whether my random posts are enough for them to find it all for themselves...

 I do feel like a prune for posting again, without any worthwhile substance.

 Guess I'll warrant it a little more with this... I'm using the Zero through my Stax 4040 rig, and I'm bloody loving it! It doesn't feel like the poor relation at all... it sings nicely with the Earth HDAM module 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl._

 

Hi Ap,

 Glad your enjoying the Stax rig 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It amazing how good the Zero can be (as a source) when HDAM equipped in the DAC section. Further mods can give you and even better signal quality....I know you've been waiting patiently for those mods to be posted in the DIY section...well that day is only 48 hours away from now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Uh....not like any opamp at all actually. I prefer dead nuts neutral as opposed to coloring the signal. The Earth HDAM is as neutral as it gets. You simply have to hear it to understand it's qualities...it neither sounds tubey nor SS. 
 Opamps just don't match up in this case, they always have a caveat...the Earth HDAM and LC's HDAM don't have any negatives that I can hear and I've been trying to nail down something for months on end.....HDAM simply rocks in this situation (or use). It's perfect IMHO.

 Peete._

 

Thx Peete.

 And yeah, I used "analytical" to describe the sound I seem to prefer in the DAC OP stage, but "neutral" and "accurate" might have been good adjectives, as well.

 Just thought I'd meantion: The reason I asked your opinion, rather than simply reading your HDAM reviews was that the page #'s in your sig don't reference the posts for me., so I couldn't find them. Might be something to do with my screen resolution or browser settings, or even deleted posts. I dunno.

 But, if they're not working for me, then they may not work for someone else, too.

 Perhaps you might consider referencing by post #, or permalink? Just a thought if others have issues too.

 BTW, if you were to post here with the post #'s or permalinks I'd be happy to re-read your reviews....it's been a while.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Sure thing StratCat, I'll see what I can do about that.

 I'm curious, that nic of yours...do you own any Strats ? My fav axe of all time, the Strat (still my no 1 even though I love Gibby's too ).

 Peete.


 PS Sig has been updated to new page locations and post numbers in the thread. Thanks SC for pointing out the fact that the sig was wrong. I still need to learn how to permalink them....Earlier thread pruning has reshuffled the locations. Anyhow thanks again....those two posts will shed a lot of light on the Opamp/HDAM comparisons.


----------



## seaice

Hi Peete, 

 thanks for your great information in this thread.

 What is the permalinking concerned, it is quite easy:

 First you must click on the button "Permalink" at the top right conner of the post you want to permalink. Then, the URL link to this post appears in the address line of your browser. Now you can copy the link anywhere you want. So for your HDAM review (part I), you will get this:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...ml#post4347317

 And you can also make a short version of the link with only a text of your choice displayed. Like this: Zero HDAM Mini Review Part I

 It is quite easy. Copy the link between the quotation marks in the following html code and also type a text to be displayed in this code. Finally, copy the whole html code to your signature... 

  HTML Code:


```
[left][URL="http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/review-zero-24-bit-192khz-dac-headphone-amp-pre-amp-269458/index361.html#post4347317"]Zero HDAM Mini Review Part I[/URL][/left]
```

I hope this will help.

 By the way, my Eart, Moon and Sun v2 was send yesterday


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *seaice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Peete, 

 thanks for your great information in this thread.

 What is the permalinking concerned, it is quite easy:

 First you must click on the button "Permalink" at the top right conner of the post you want to permalink. Then, the URL link to this post appears in the address line of your browser. Now you can copy the link anywhere you want. So for your HDAM review (part I), you will get this:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...ml#post4347317

 And you can also make a short version of the link with only a text of your choice displayed. Like this: Zero HDAM Mini Review Part I

 It is quite easy. Copy the link between the quotation marks in the following html code and also type a text to be displayed in this code. Finally, copy the whole html code to your signature... 

  HTML Code:



		Code:
	

[left][URL="http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/review-zero-24-bit-192khz-dac-headphone-amp-pre-amp-269458/index361.html#post4347317"]Zero HDAM Mini Review Part I[/URL][/left]


I hope this will help.

 By the way, my Eart, Moon and Sun v2 was send yesterday 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Cool...thanks a lot Seaice....I'll make those changes right away.....

 Peete.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just posting for my sig.

 Nobody is asking where to buy the Zero these days... I wonder if demand is dropping, or whether my random posts are enough for them to find it all for themselves..._

 

I wonder if my guide killed the thread as a lot of posts beforehand were asking the obvious questions.

  Quote:


 I do feel like a prune for posting again, without any worthwhile substance.

 Guess I'll warrant it a little more with this... I'm using the Zero through my Stax 4040 rig, and I'm bloody loving it! It doesn't feel like the poor relation at all... it sings nicely with the Earth HDAM module 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl. 
 

I went and tried out the Stax 4040 rig....oops, now I want one! I'm glad to hear that it doesn't reveal anything bad from your upgraded Zero. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So Peete,

 Would you describe the Audi-gd HDAMs as more "tube- like" than the OPA2606/OPA627, or do the discrete x-sisters still retain a SS SQ?

 I haven't made my mind up as to what to do with upgrading my ZERO's DAC output stage device, but believe I prefer a more analytical SQ (probably why I like my AKG K701’s a lot). I do like a large soundstage, however._

 

When I had K701s, they made my hate my Apogee Duet, as using it as a DAC sounded way too dry with them. The Zero was a big improvement, and that was _before_ the HDAM upgrade.

 I just have to post this because I'm excited about it: On the way is Audio-gd's all discrete C-2C, a Moon HDAM, the RCA jack + wire offer and I hope soon a Lavry DAC and eventually the Stax 4040 set and probably a very disgruntled wife. I need to corrupt her into head-fi fast... Once that's all settled (oops, forgot the Simlic caps for the Zero) I'll retire from Head-fi after I've reviewed it all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyone who hasn't already, if you've got the HDAM but no soldering iron, get a (rubber covered preferably) alligator clip and clip the HDAM's earth wire to the earth leg of the RCA jacks. It tightened up the bass in my D5000s like I imagined an amp upgrade would have.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Uh oh CC.......you've heard ribbon technology ...that's a slippery slope to Nirvana (my main rig is planar/ribbon hybrids and I'll never go back to all dynamic) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Although I am enjoying the dynamic driver ride via headphones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What was the final cost for the C-2C shipped out the door ?

 Peete.


----------



## grkn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wonder if my guide killed the thread as a lot of posts beforehand were asking the obvious questions.



 I went and tried out the Stax 4040 rig....oops, now I want one! I'm glad to hear that it doesn't reveal anything bad from your upgraded Zero. 



 When I had K701s, they made my hate my Apogee Duet, as using it as a DAC sounded way too dry with them. The Zero was a big improvement, and that was before the HDAM upgrade.

 I just have to post this because I'm excited about it: On the way is Audio-gd's all discrete C-2C, a Moon HDAM, the RCA jack + wire offer and I hope soon a Lavry DAC and eventually the Stax 4040 set and probably a very disgruntled wife. I need to corrupt her into head-fi fast... Once that's all settled (oops, forgot the Simlic caps for the Zero) I'll retire from Head-fi after I've reviewed it all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyone who hasn't already, if you've got the HDAM but no soldering iron, get a (rubber covered preferably) alligator clip and clip the HDAM's earth wire to the earth leg of the RCA jacks. It tightened up the bass in my D5000s like I imagined an amp upgrade would have._

 

Ignorance is bliss, this is a slippery slope you're on!


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I went and tried out the Stax 4040 rig....oops, now I want one! I'm glad to hear that it doesn't reveal anything bad from your upgraded Zero._

 

Try and get one on a home demo for a couple of weeks. After spending more than 7 days with it, you'll struggle to listen to anything else 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. The difference is so large, it really is...

 Can get a decent discount if you push the dealer hard enough 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## bgt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is the same one I've seen somewhere else too. I'm sure it works fine. Every now and again, I'll look around for better ones, but they are hard to find. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 I have these ones. €95,- at Conrad. I just added 2 more inputs. Just ordered a zero too.


CaupoShop - Artikel-Vollbild


----------



## bundee1

Anyone have pics of how their HDAM is positioned in their Zero case?

 Pics of Alps pot mod, and HDAM lead soldered to the RCA ground?

 I have all the pieces on the way and a new soldering iron station and all the kit included to do all the mods, I just need some more visual guidance. 

 As for switching out the opamps, how delicate of a procedure is it? Can I really just use a screwdriver or is a smaller more delicate tool better? I looked inside the case to do the rca cap mod and everything is tinier than I imagined. 

 Thanks guys.


----------



## Nedman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 As for switching out the opamps, how delicate of a procedure is it? Can I really just use a screwdriver or is a smaller more delicate tool better?

 Thanks guys._

 

It's really simple, I just pulled mine out with my fingers  . 

 Make sure the half moons match up, and plug the new one in.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As for switching out the opamps, how delicate of a procedure is it? Can I really just use a screwdriver or is a smaller more delicate tool better? I looked inside the case to do the rca cap mod and everything is tinier than I imagined._

 

Screwdriver works very well indeed. Just gently put the flats underneath the IC but above the socket, and gently rotate the handle slightly to give a little leverage. Swap to the other side and to the same - at which point, you'll likely be able to pull the IC using just your fingers. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Or use 2 screwdrivers, at both ends simultaneously. Again, it doesn't take much effort, just make sure you're gentle and lever it as little as possible. Once you've done one, you'll realise how simple it is 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 Most folk seem to lie the HDAM on its side between the DAC PCB and headamp PCB, with the earth lead going off to the screw holding the headamp PCB to the chassis.

 Be sure to insulate the HDAM from the casing though. Either a piece of plastic, or some insulation tape - there are a number of ways. I made a cradle out of an old credit card for mine...

 ~Phewl.


----------



## PyrotekNX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone have pics of how their HDAM is positioned in their Zero case?

 Pics of Alps pot mod, and HDAM lead soldered to the RCA ground?

 I have all the pieces on the way and a new soldering iron station and all the kit included to do all the mods, I just need some more visual guidance. 

 As for switching out the opamps, how delicate of a procedure is it? Can I really just use a screwdriver or is a smaller more delicate tool better? I looked inside the case to do the rca cap mod and everything is tinier than I imagined. 

 Thanks guys._

 

You can use a chip puller from an old computer repair kit if you have one. It isn't a bad idea to use a grounding strap while handling them, as they are very sensitive to electric shock. I would also invest in some good silver bearing solder, solder sucker/desoldering braid, and end nippers. I'm also interested in seeing an Alps blue velvet pot mod and HDAM installation pic.

 I still have not been able to source a replacement TOSLINK receiver that will work for the Zero. The one in the Zero has 3 leads, the middle 2 are bridged internally. The stabilizing posts on most of them also to not fit into the 2 post holes in the board. I may end up potting the one I have and just using it. I will have to do research to find good potting material, I am thinking of coating the contacts in gorilla glue and then epoxy. I am also having balance issues now, right channel is a few dB off, and it is real annoying. Thinking that the OPA627 chips on the browndog adapter weren't matched properly. Maybe there is a trim control that can fix it, I don't really want to change resistors.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Uh oh CC.......you've heard ribbon technology ...that's a slippery slope to Nirvana (my main rig is planar/ribbon hybrids and I'll never go back to all dynamic) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Although I am enjoying the dynamic driver ride via headphones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What was the final cost for the C-2C shipped out the door ?

 Peete._

 

Friends of mine run one of the top hi-fi stores in Australia. I've heard, if not insanely expensive, high-up enough systems that I know I'll not reach what they can do unless I win the lottery. 

 My Denons sounded muddy after listening to the STAX. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone have pics of how their HDAM is positioned in their Zero case?

 Pics of Alps pot mod, and HDAM lead soldered to the RCA ground?_

 

I'll take a pic at some point, but as the earth wire on the HDAM is short, I sortof jammed the HDAM between the toslink socket and the edge of the case at the back so I could solder the earth wire to the RCA ground. Once the RCAs and wire arrive, I hope I have enough spare I can extend the earth wire. I'll sort it all out anyway when I pull it apart.


----------



## Sganzerla

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone have pics of how their HDAM is positioned in their Zero case?_

 

 Don't know if it helps, but I asked Lawrence to install HDAM for me, and this is the configuration I got:







 Looks like it is not the best idea, but my knowledge in this area is unfortunately very limited yet.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't know if it helps, but I asked Lawrence to install HDAM for me, and this is the configuration I got:







 Looks like it is not the best idea, but my knowledge in this area is unfortunately very limited yet._

 

Not to worry that's a good spot for the module. Relocate the HDAM ground wire to the main pcb audio ground and add a 1 uf >50V high quality PIO cap to the across (parallel) V- V+ pins. Swap the NE5532 opamps for samples of LT1364's from Linear Tech. 

 Give it 350 hours and you'll have one toe tappin' musical little bugger 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Tomorrow I will create 2 threads in the DIY forum. 

 Those threads should cover all the mods...one being specific for the FrankenZERO DIY kit/mod and the other thread all other mods thus far implimented WRT the Zero.

 This thread will deal with where to buy, what to ask for, SQ of the unit, gripes and praise etc...

 Hopefully the new threads will help make it easier for all those wishing to find information quickly and efficiently.

 It's been a long summer for me and this project has taken me tons and tons of my spare time but it's all been worthwhile.....I look forward to further mods, ideas, etc...in those threads.

 Peete.


----------



## John E Woven

got my zero a couple days ago, haven't really used it until now. 

 Tried it out with a broke ass old dvd player that I use to test all my equiptment, a pair of AudioTechnica AD900's, and a few cd's: Metallica's Black Album, Pink Floyd's Meddle, and the Backstreet Boy's Backstreets back. 

 Amazing, amazing dac/amp.


----------



## Sganzerla

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tomorrow I will create 2 threads in the DIY forum. 

 Those threads should cover all the mods...one being specific for the FrankenZERO DIY kit/mod and the other thread all other mods thus far implimented WRT the Zero.

 This thread will deal with *where to buy, what to ask for*, SQ of the unit, gripes and praise etc...

 Hopefully the new threads will help make it easier for all those wishing to find information quickly and efficiently.

 It's been a long summer for me and this project has taken me tons and tons of my spare time but it's all been worthwhile.....I look forward to further mods, ideas, etc...in those threads.

 Peete._

 

 This is very interesting for us that live in countries other than in Europe or North America. If you could link places that sell worldwide I think many people would be very happy too.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is very interesting for us that live in countries other than in Europe or North America. If you could link places that sell worldwide I think many people would be very happy too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ah there in lies the rub.......I shouldn't assume you'll get the samples....sorry about that Sganzerla. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Digi-key sells worldwide AFAIK. Decent price as well. 

 Heres a direct link to the page on Digi-Keys US site for LT1364 opamps (6.88US each) CN8 package is DIP and it is the correct package for the sockets in the Zero.

Digi-Key - LT1364CN8#PBF-ND (Linear Technology - LT1364CN8#PBF)

 Peete.


----------



## Sganzerla

PP,

 I was asking if you could just provide more references os places the sell the pieces we need (if possible, obviously) when posting the 2 threads about modification of this DAC. This would be very usefull for us.

 About your sugestion, I think it possible to buy those LT1364 opamps from a distributor here in my city. Will see it soon (Linear Technology). The problem is soldering and substituting things I don't know what exactly they do or what looks like. And of course the danger of doing things in an area you don't have even the basic knowledge. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think will find someone to help me here with those things very soon (one that can borrow the tools I need and teach me the 'how to'). It may take some time but things will be done, for sure.

 But anyways, thanks for all the info!

 Since I joined this forum thing$ are being done, not at the speed I would like but...


----------



## viscosity

Ever since replacing these caps, highs became allot less harsh and lows tighter. The ones circled in green are used forpower to the dac and receiver but does anyone know what the blue circled ones might be for? I kind of replaced them on a whim, as I head extra muse KZ caps and saw that they were 100uf.. 

 either way, things sound much better with my k701s


----------



## LeBuLLeT

hey where exactly did you connect the ground too from your hdam?


----------



## katanka

Hey guys,

 Just thought id give some more thoughts on my zero. I have had mine for several months now, and have gone through an array of opamps. I really thought id like the sun HDAM the most, but it turns out the earth is definitely better. I have been burning it in for a very long time. I listen between headphones and my bookshelf speakers, a pair of monitor audio's. Well one day, those monitor audios just came alive, it was like i had a different set of speakers as well, i reckon the true potential of the earth HDAM must of kicked in.


----------



## StratCat

- OT -

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 [...]

 I'm curious, that nic of yours...do you own any Strats ? My fav axe of all time, the Strat (still my no 1 even though I love Gibby's too ).

 [...]
_

 

You got it Peete; Been a Strat owner since I bought my first one with my paper route money when 14y.o. - a new ’70 maple neck with that yellowish white (not “Olympic White”) body like Jeff Beck often played ca. late 60's/early 70’s. Had a good luthier who really set it up nicely. But now, for the first time in my life. I'm temporarily “Stratless”. It got stolen along with an early 60’s 40W Vox head when I sold my previous house to buy my current one. All my homeowners’ insurance gave me was 175 bux since I didn’t have a rider claiming it as a vintage instrument.

 On impulse I recently grabbed a cheap POS Yamaha electric to have something to play after I became disillusioned trying to replace my old Strat at a reasonable price. The collectors have driven the market for 50/60’s axes thru the roof. I gave up trying to find an affordable pre-CBS (1965 or earlier) Strat or Tele at an affordable price, so I’ve resigned myself that I’ll likely pick up a new “vintage re-issue”.

 Like you, I like a large variety of acoustic and electric axes, and am considering maybe a Tele this time, but not sure if I can give up that sweet, full, round sound of a maple necked Strat on the neck PU with the vol and tone pots wide open. I recently played a mint condition late 50’s maple neck-natural body Tele that a friend had inherited from the parent’s of a guy that never returned from ‘Nam. Neither she nor the parents played, and the axe basically was kept in it’s tweed case under a bed all these decades, only coming out occassionaly. It played and sounded amazing. No idea how the strings don't corrode when stored like that, but they were in good shape, oddly enough. The new owner wouldn’t even consider any offers due to sentimental value. 

 Ohhh….and I refuse to give-up-the-ghost until I’ve owned one decent Martin. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW, with fender electrics, I prefer maple necks nearly exclusively

 Thx for asking


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have not noticed any "problems" with using the LT1469 over LT1364 using any of my headphones. There is NO problem getting enough volume that's for sure. The volume can get VERY high even with the LT1469. I haven't noticed any large change in sound quality either, just a change in sound signature when switching between them._

 

Thx for the reply.

 I've decided to get some LT1469 samples, now too, and may even try the LT1469 in the DAC section, as well as the HPA. But, TBH, I don't feel the stock NE5532's nor the LT1364's drive my K701's sufficiently. I can occassionally play them with the vol pot wide open, which I know leaves no headroom. I think there's going to be an external amp in my near future.

  Quote:


 I do not know anything about the specs of different op-amps, I only listen to the sound they produce. 
 

 It's fun to compare specs with results, but let's face it: The ultimate test is "Do you like it?", right?


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *viscosity* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_



_

 

_* Viscosity, I hope you don't mind me snatching your pic for demonstration purposes _- Thx *

 Hey guys,

 Check it out.

 Right there, between the DAC board and the HPA board. Under the red HDAM cable. The bottom of the case. See them? On the bottom of the case? Yep. Ventilation holes! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Exactly where Pench recommended. Perfectly placed for convection. The convection currents flow cool air in from under the chassis right past the HPA Vregs, and then exhaust over the DAC Vregs. Nice. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We did stuff like this on internal prototypes at Bell and Howell. It works.

 Anyone know how long these new cases with bottom vent holes have been shipping?


----------



## Olev

I received mine a few weeks ago and it has bottom AND top ventilation holes right where the HP section transistors are.


----------



## LeBuLLeT

my zero only has vent holes at the top.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_- OT -

 You got it Peete; Been a Strat owner since I bought my first one with my paper route money when 14y.o. - a new ’70 maple neck with that yellowish white (not “Olympic White”) body like Jeff Beck often played ca. late 60's/early 70’s. Had a good luthier who really set it up nicely. But now, for the first time in my life. I'm temporarily “Stratless”. It got stolen along with an early 60’s 40W Vox head when I sold my previous house to buy my current one. All my homeowners’ insurance gave me was 175 bux since I didn’t have a rider claiming it as a vintage instrument.

 On impulse I recently grabbed a cheap POS Yamaha electric to have something to play after I became disillusioned trying to replace my old Strat at a reasonable price. The collectors have driven the market for 50/60’s axes thru the roof. I gave up trying to find an affordable pre-CBS (1965 or earlier) Strat or Tele at an affordable price, so I’ve resigned myself that I’ll likely pick up a new “vintage re-issue”.

 Like you, I like a large variety of acoustic and electric axes, and am considering maybe a Tele this time, but not sure if I can give up that sweet, full, round sound of a maple necked Strat on the neck PU with the vol and tone pots wide open. I recently played a mint condition late 50’s maple neck-natural body Tele that a friend had inherited from the parent’s of a guy that never returned from ‘Nam. Neither she nor the parents played, and the axe basically was kept in it’s tweed case under a bed all these decades, only coming out occassionaly. It played and sounded amazing. No idea how the strings don't corrode when stored like that, but they were in good shape, oddly enough. The new owner wouldn’t even consider any offers due to sentimental value. 

 Ohhh….and I refuse to give-up-the-ghost until I’ve owned one decent Martin. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW, with fender electrics, I prefer maple necks nearly exclusively

 Thx for asking_

 

Hi Strat Cat 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yep.......that old Hendrix vintage white yellows considerably with time....what I have now is a Highway 1 that has had an entire overhaul (once I found a keeper out of many). A Daphne blue body with maple neck. It's had a complete rework from electronics to hardware (DIY of course). Everything upgraded with the final work done being a complete fret dress and nut swap (for a trem nut). I love it...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 which was handled by a local luthier.

 Man that Tele is a find.......hopefully the owners will sell it you someday.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Wow that's a cool evolution for the chassis ........the vent holes have been talked about for ages....you see guys, we talk and grumble about things, the manufacturer listens and does something about it.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 That's great !!!

 Peete.


----------



## dario

Also mine has ventilation holes on both sides and I used a hot glue with a "spin" to secure the hdam to the base of the chassis with the open side in front of the grill (to have a good air flow) and hot glue as insulator, and it work ok, you can feel the hot air passage, and the zero with 3 hdam don't become really hot...


----------



## pincellone

Has anybody tried one of these HDAMs with the Zero?

AMPLIFICATION MODULES FOR AUDIO PRE & POWER AMPLIFIER! su eBay.it Amplifiers, Home Audio, Electronics

 Apparently they are singles (sold in a couple) and cost half the price of those of Audio-GD.

 They are supposed to be like the Philips HDAMs, but of course this can't be necessarily true.

 As the PCB layout is different, maybe they could be attached at the sides of the Zero's enclosure, although I don't know their size yet.

 Tubeshunter is quite reliable as a seller, I bought several items from him.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Cool Pincellone......I'm looking at the caddock stuffed version of this Welborne Labs MiniAMp

 For a stand alone DAC I'm working on right now...

 Peete.


----------



## pincellone

Nice one PP. It would be interesting to try them out with the Zero and see how they perform.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Zero MOD thread has been opened in the DIY forum...please post all mods there from now on please......

 In an attempt to make things easier for noobs and vet alike, owner participation in populating that thread will make or break that new thread...so have at it guys and girls and keep it on subject 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The FrankenZERO thread will be posted in that same DIY forum in a few hours after I figure out the best way to present it all.

 Peete.


----------



## pincellone

For the lazy members
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, here is the direct link:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/zer...-h-amp-370969/

 BTW I believe also Currawong is doing a great job here:

Introduction to the Zero DAC and Headphone amplifier. - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

 Let me also add this one, it's in Italian, but Google Translator helps a bit (I don't need that...) and pictures are self-explanatory...

http://t-class.niceboard.net/dac-f42...e-t493-120.htm


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Thanks Pincellone !!!!

 The FrankenZERO upgrade is also up in the DIY thread. It's dial up friendly with links to the thumbnails.

 Enough work for me today.....

 Peete.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Updated my signature to - hopefully - direct others from earlier in this thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## dopeboyfresh

Quick question... Is this a good starting point on improving from not using amps? If I get one of these huge boxes can I just plug it into my computer and plug my headphones in or do I need anything else?


----------



## LeBuLLeT

dopeboy this is all you will need. It has a dac/h-mp/pre-amp. Does your computer have coaxial or toslink output? If it has either one of those then this would work for you.


----------



## dopeboyfresh

Ok.... So there actually really isn't a point for a portable amp (for me anyway) unless you have like some of those high end UE earphones because most of the others you'll probably be using at home.

 Thanks LeBuLLeT.


----------



## Currawong

dopeboyfresh: Check my signature, I wrote up a guide that should answer most of your questions.


----------



## dopeboyfresh

Thanks. Your guide was very helpful... Damn I thought this would be a nice cheap option but there are all these mods and stuff that can and should be done.

 bleurgh


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pincellone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anybody tried one of these HDAMs with the Zero?

AMPLIFICATION MODULES FOR AUDIO PRE & POWER AMPLIFIER! su eBay.it Amplifiers, Home Audio, Electronics

 Apparently they are singles (sold in a couple) and cost half the price of those of Audio-GD.

 They are supposed to be like the Philips HDAMs, but of course this can't be necessarily true.

 As the PCB layout is different, maybe they could be attached at the sides of the Zero's enclosure, although I don't know their size yet.

 Tubeshunter is quite reliable as a seller, I bought several items from him.









_

 

Hmm, interesting one, pincelloni, worth a look. One thing though, it might send noobies in audio construction running, 'cos they have to assemble it themselves first. Not that it's a difficult job, just that they can buy one/two fully assembled as OPA Earth for the same price from Kingwa. In saying that, I wonder what the sonic difference might be? Anyone want to give it a shot? I would myself, but will have my hands very full shortly with FrankenZero and KHA II + power supply. S-Man.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dopeboyfresh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 [...]

 Damn I thought this would be a nice cheap option but there are all these mods and stuff that can and should be done.

 bleurgh_

 

dopeboyfresh -

 The modding emphasis here is on "can", not "should".

 I've used my Zero for 2 months, completely stock, until I rolled some op amps yesterday, and thoroughly enjoyed it in stock configuration w/o doing any mods. 

 It just so happens the Zero has a lot of additional potential which can be unlocked, and a group of enthusiastic modders hang in this thread. It's fine right out of the box (depending on how golden your ears are, and how high your expectations and requirements).

 If you're looking to go with a cheap turnkey solution then just grab the stock unit and enjoy it if it fits your current needs. If the uprade or mod bug bites you then jump in, if, and when, that happens. Otherwise, just enjoy it, as is, knowing you've got flexibility to upgrade, expand, or mod.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Excellent follow up SC. Your a credit to the board 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Your absolutely right when you say there is potential to tap.

 Peete.


----------



## bundee1

I just installed my lt1364s yesterday and they've been burning in for 24hrs. I listened to the results through my speakers and it seems like the bass has been reduced. I have opa627 in the dac section and they've burned in for 100 hrs. I know they are seperate sections but could the increased power draw from the 1364s be affecting the sound of the dad section?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just installed my lt1364s yesterday and they've been burning in for 24hrs. I listened to the results through my speakers and it seems like the bass has been reduced. I have opa627 in the dac section and they've burned in for 100 hrs. I know they are seperate sections but could the increased power draw from the 1364s be affecting the sound of the dad section?_

 

It shouldn't...maybe the LT's need more time ? 50 hours perhaps ? I forget how long they need...it was quite awhile back when I swapped the 5532's for the 1364's.

 Peete.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just installed my lt1364s yesterday and they've been burning in for 24hrs. I listened to the results through my speakers and it seems like the bass has been reduced. I have opa627 in the dac section and they've burned in for 100 hrs. I know they are seperate sections but could the increased power draw from the 1364s be affecting the sound of the dad section?_

 

I Just swapped the NE5532's out for LT1634's in the HPA just 48 hrs ago myself, but I don't use the pre-amp or line-out (yet). The LT1364's do run quite a bit hotter than the NE5532's indicating they consume more pwr, but I highly doubt they could sag the PS, especially considering they are in a quiescent state when not loaded down driving phones.

 If in doubt, pop 'em back out and do a quick A/B, right?

 BTW - Are you using the volume control on the Zero to control the line-out levels (pre-amp mode)?


----------



## bundee1

that was my second question but I forgot to include it in the first post. Do I have to have the preamp on to burn in the lt1364s? I'm just using the dac.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_that was my second question but I forgot to include it in the first post. Do I have to have the preamp on to burn in the lt1364s? I'm just using the dac._

 

Good question....I would think running the preamp would be required. Although I can't be 100% sure of that. Might as well I say.

 Peete.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_that was my second question but I forgot to include it in the first post. Do I have to have the preamp on to burn in the lt1364s? I'm just using the dac._

 

Can't help you there (yet). But I do know using the HPA will definitely load your LT1364's (Oestensibly assisting any burn-in).

 I'm not sure if the vol pot in pre-amp mode adjusts the gain in the DAC or HPA op amps. 

 You could test this by removing the LT1364's leaving the sockets unpopulated, and seeing if you can adjust the volume in pre-amp mode. If you still can, then obviously the LT1364's are out-of-circuit in pre-amp mode and you'll have to drive some phones to load the LT1364's.

 Does this make sense?

 Edit: Oops...hope I'm not stepping on your toes, Peete


----------



## bundee1

crud no adaptor to try headphone amp.


----------



## StratCat

BTW, guys, I really didn't want to take sides in any (the?) op-amp burn-in debate, BUT:

 I swear I heard large changes in my LT1364's. I would never have believed it 'till I heard it myself. It either was burn-in, or psychology. But it occurred, definitely.

 Changes occurring at about 1/2 hr or so, then maybe 3 or 4 hours somewhat, and then a real nice SQ at about 12 - 16 hrs.

 I'm flabbergast. 

 This was with my K701's, which really present a difficult load requiring 75-100% of the pot range for loud listening.

 Maybe it is psychology. I dunno. But I definitely perceived rather significant changes.


----------



## edguetzow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW, guys, I really didn't want to take sides in any (the?) op-amp burn-in debate, BUT:

 I swear I heard large changes in my LT1364's. I would never have believed it 'till I heard it myself. It either was burn-in, or psychology. But it occurred, definitely.

 Changes occurring at about 1/2 hr or so, then maybe 3 or 4 hours somewhat, and then a real nice SQ at about 12 - 16 hrs.

 I'm flabbergast. 

 This was with my K701's, which really present a difficult load requiring 75-100% of the pot range for loud listening.

 Maybe it is psychology. I dunno. But I definitely perceived rather significant changes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

So, were the changes for the better? Hopefully so!! Congrats!?


----------



## Syu

Hi,

 I read Introduction to the Zero DAC and Headphone amplifier. - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio and was interested in it. Are there some comparative reviews between *The "as far as you can go without soldering" ZERO* and *other famous AMPs or DACs* like HD-1L, m902, P-1, Darkvoice 337, Benchmark DAC1 or Lavry DA10?


----------



## bundee1

Can you describe the changes in sound quality? Bass treble soundstage vocals etc.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edguetzow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, were the changes for the better? Hopefully so!! Congrats!? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Oh yes, absolutely. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But initially, there seemed to be somewhat less bass, and the mids and highs seemed thin. There seemed to be a bit more hi freq extension, but it was relatively thin, and the SQ seemed to be lacking in dynamics, and also seemed congested, too. I was underwhelmed somewhat.

 The bass came in first, followed by airy, but solid, spacious highs, along with, for lack of better words, "decongestion".

 But even just immediately after the swap, before any "burn-in", I could see the old NE5332 seemed dull and compressed compared to the LT1364.

 I'll have to consider an A/B with the original chip if I won't get too lazy!


----------



## bundee1

Quote:


 But initially, there seemed to be somewhat less bass, and the mids and highs seemed thin. There seemed to be a bit more hi freq extension, but it was relatively thin, and the SQ seemed to be lacking in dynamics, and also seemed congested, too. I was underwhelmed somewhat. 
 



 Im listening through speakers and strangely enough that is what I heard. The old NE chip seemed to blur the images. Everything seems a little sharper now.


----------



## edguetzow

Same here. Way back when we first looked at the 1364's I found the same sort of clarity and change in the bass. I recollect that it continued to improve over the next few days. The chips did get hot though but that wasn't a big issue for me since I intended to use a separate amp.

 Nice to know, though, that if I needed to use the amp section, it would be quite adequate for my needs - a great backup amp built in!


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can you describe the changes in sound quality? Bass treble soundstage vocals etc._

 

Bundee -

 Immediately, I could tell that original NE5532's didn't have the mid to low bass seperation the LT1364's had. Low and mid bass was more clumped together with the NE5532's, for lack of better words. And there was a bit more hi freq extension with the LT1364's. These were my immediate (positive) impressions, along with the negatives I stated earlier.

 Now, I would describe the SQ as having a very tight articulate bass that's perfectly weighted. There's a lot of room around the lower mids...they aren't as prominent anymore, which is a good thing. The lower mids leave room for the bass. The mid-mids are also well balanced with decent space. The highs are clear and have reasonable space while remaining solid. 

 The bigest changes where the "freeing up" of the bass from the mid bass, and the clearer opening up of the highs. Cymbals seem to shimmer more realistically. They're noticably present w/o being overly hot or siblant. The overall impression is one of clarity with space, but solid presence.

 I'd put these chips in the moderately light and bright camp, but they remain balanced and not overly fatiquing. By "moderately" light/bright, I mean in a pleasant way.

 These impressions were with my K701's and mostly classical music. Oh, yeah, "decongested". Not sure of a better word, but there's a bit less blurring of complex musical passages.

 Samples are free...and R&R'ing them is a two minute no hassle job...may as well order some (and a few others) - JMHO

 HTH

 Edit: Wow! We're all in agreement? Scary!


----------



## bundee1

Yeah I would say the sound is tipped to the upper half of the frequency spectrum at the moment. I wonder how the zero will sound after the Earth arrives and is burned in along with the LT1364s?


----------



## oofie810

StratCat, in your opinion, can the Zero alone power the k701 to make it sound at least somewhat good?


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oofie810* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_StratCat, in your opinion, can the Zero alone power the k701 to make it sound at least somewhat good?_

 

My opinion:

 A stock Zero can drive the K701 well enough to get a feel for it's sound-signature, and you can enjoy it for simple musical enjoyment, but I would likely use it as a starting point if interested in doing serious critical listening. I'm on the fence with this opinion, because, TBH, I currently DO thoroughly enjoy my K701's on my Zero's HP, and I do attempt to do some critical evaluation, too. 

 So honestly, I could easily live with this combo if I had to, and would likely remain happy if not hanging out here on Headfi! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Seriously! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But, TBH, I'll only be able to accurately describe the Zero's HPA vs an external amp when I get my LD 1+ that I ordered recently. The Zero HPA + K701 seems to be a perennial question around here, and hopefully I'll soon be able to provide a more critical response.

 HTH


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Syu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,

 I read Introduction to the Zero DAC and Headphone amplifier. - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio and was interested in it. Are there some comparative reviews between *The "as far as you can go without soldering" ZERO* and *other famous AMPs or DACs* like HD-1L, m902, P-1, Darkvoice 337, Benchmark DAC1 or Lavry DA10?_

 

I have a Lavry on the way, so I'll let everyone know. The only comparison I've done is with an Apogee Duet, which it was fairly equivalent to if using just opamps. Using the HDAM, it's better than the Duet. I highly doubt it could out-perform a Benchmark DAC1 or Lavry. It would be interesting to see how far it can be made to go after mods though.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My opinion:

 A stock Zero can drive the K701 well enough to get a feel for it's sound-signature, and you can enjoy it for simple musical enjoyment, but I would likely use it as a starting point if interested in doing serious critical listening. I'm on the fence with this opinion, because, TBH, I currently DO thoroughly enjoy my K701's on my Zero's HP, and I do attempt to do some critical evaluation, too. 

 So honestly, I could easily live with this combo if I had to, and would likely remain happy if not hanging out here on Headfi! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Seriously! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But, TBH, I'll only be able to accurately describe the Zero's HPA vs an external amp when I get my LD 1+ that I ordered recently. The Zero HPA + K701 seems to be a perennial question around here, and hopefully I'll soon be able to provide a more critical response.

 HTH_

 

I'm sure I'd be still enjoying my old Quart 55Xs if I'd just bought a stock Zero in the first place. At the least, you're missing out on a lot of soundstage not having a dedicated amp.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 [...]

 I'm sure I'd be still enjoying my old Quart 55Xs if I'd just bought a stock Zero in the first place. At the least, you're missing out on a lot of soundstage not having a dedicated amp._

 

Hi Currawong -

 I'm not sure I understand what your implying.

 Are you saying you would NOT recommend using the stock Zero's HPA as a way to get started?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can't help you there (yet). But I do know using the HPA will definitely load your LT1364's (Oestensibly assisting any burn-in).

 I'm not sure if the vol pot in pre-amp mode adjusts the gain in the DAC or HPA op amps. 

 You could test this by removing the LT1364's leaving the sockets unpopulated, and seeing if you can adjust the volume in pre-amp mode. If you still can, then obviously the LT1364's are out-of-circuit in pre-amp mode and you'll have to drive some phones to load the LT1364's.

 Does this make sense?

 Edit: Oops...hope I'm not stepping on your toes, Peete_

 


 Don't worry about it SC. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm almost certain the opamps in the H/Amp have to be installed in order for the circuit to function. I'm also willing to bet the LT1364's are responsible for gain in preamp mode. I believe the dac section opamp is fixed level gain for the analog output in pure DAC mode.

 I could be wrong about that, but makes the most sense to me.

 Can anyone confirm the configuration of the H/Amp opamps when engaged ( to drive either output ) ?

 Peete.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 I'm almost certain the opamps in the H/Amp have to be installed in order for the circuit to function. I'm also willing to bet the LT1364's are responsible for gain in preamp mode. I believe the dac section opamp is fixed level gain for the analog output in pure DAC mode.

 I could be wrong about that, but makes the most sense_

 

Agreed. 

 That makes the most sense to me too, Peete.

 If no one answers this definitively by the time I get my LD 1+, I'll check it out using the method I stated. I'd really like to learn more about the architecture and signal path of my Zero, and the new amp, too. I get the feeling the LD 1+ is going to be a nice compliment to the Zero WRT rolling and modding on-the-cheap...it has an op amp stage, along with the tubes, too!


----------



## cybertron

Well, its been a little while since I read this thread but I did a while back and I hope my information is still accurate. I just ordered my Zero with op amp upgrades, Alps pot, and HDAM from Lawrence. I hope that was a wise choice.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cybertron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, its been a little while since I read this thread but I did a while back and I hope my information is still accurate. I just ordered my Zero with op amp upgrades, Alps pot, and HDAM from Lawrence. I hope that was a wise choice._

 

A wise choice indeed. The Burson Audio cap mod should be done right away to your HDAM if you have a good 1uf >50V rating film and foil cap (or NOS PIO etc).

 The difference it makes with the HDAM is well worth the effort. It's only drawback is burn in time required at 350 hours. 

 The tweak seems to give the HDAM that last bit of refinement needed for decay, transient speed, cymbal attack and decay as well as highly controlled macro and micro detail, dynamics etc...it also seems to add to the quality of bass and it's delineation. 3D sound stage is also improved a little.

 Penchum has been studying this seemingly innocuous mod at length and is better placed to comment further. Take it away Pench 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Currawong -

 I'm not sure I understand what your implying.

 Are you saying you would NOT recommend using the stock Zero's HPA as a way to get started?_

 

Not at all, just putting things into perspective. I used Quart 55Xs out of my Mac's headphone output for over 10 years, which is a crazy thing to do by head-fi standards, as they are painfully hard to drive headphones with massive diaphragms, totally unsuited to the role I was using them. However, I liked them a lot. When I first started into buying head-fi gear, I got my Little Dot MKV, followed by re-cabled K701s. I was arse-backwards in a sense because the 701s revealed that my computer as a source sucked, seriously. After the Apogee Duet came the upgraded Zero after I realised the Duet was to dry and analytical-sounding for the K701s. What I'm saying is, if I'd gone in reverse, and bought the Zero upgraded at first, it would have satisfied me a lot with my Quarts possibly without me experiencing what effect each component in the chain has.

 People often ask "Will the Zero drive my headphones ok?" - What do they mean by "ok"? It's rather like all the threads where people are talking about buying K701s for their soundstage when they are not going to plug them into an amp or use a source that will allow the K701 to have a big soundstage.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not at all, just putting things into perspective. I used Quart 55Xs out of my Mac's headphone output for over 10 years, which is a crazy thing to do by head-fi standards, as they are painfully hard to drive headphones with massive diaphragms, totally unsuited to the role I was using them. However, I liked them a lot. When I first started into buying head-fi gear, I got my Little Dot MKV, followed by re-cabled K701s. I was arse-backwards in a sense because the 701s revealed that my computer as a source sucked, seriously. After the Apogee Duet came the upgraded Zero after I realised the Duet was to dry and analytical-sounding for the K701s. What I'm saying is, if I'd gone in reverse, and bought the Zero upgraded at first, it would have satisfied me a lot with my Quarts possibly without me experiencing what effect each component in the chain has._

 

Ah, O.K., I was confused...it would seem we ARE singing off the same page after all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 People often ask "Will the Zero drive my headphones ok?" - What do they mean by "ok"? It's rather like all the threads where people are talking about buying K701s for their soundstage when they are not going to plug them into an amp or use a source that will allow the K701 to have a big soundstage. 
 

Exactly. To sound "reasonable" is tremendously subjective, like so much in audio.

 I think perhaps the best way for me to approach responses to questions like this in the future would be to inquire as to where the poster is currently, gear and listening wise, and where the poster *thinks* s/he'd like to go (their desired end result), since we have a pretty disparate group here in Headfi WRT current listening perspectives and expected upgrade results.

 I was very fortunate in that nearly immediately upon entering this hobby I realized I needed an inexpensive "sacrificial" test-bed in order to successfully demo and evaluate cans, starting with thier purchase firstly, and then I could fill in the rest of my system to fit my chosen can(s). 

 Funny thing though, now that I have the cans I like, I don't see myself sacrificing the test-bed anytime in the too near future! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks again for the reply.


----------



## AZNracerx1989

How do you guys think this DAC will work with my home audio setup? I will use my AMP10 from 41hz.com and a dvd player as a source. Does the ZERO make a good preamp+ DAC or is it strictly good for only headphones?

High Grade 24bit/192khz DAC with fully assembled kits - eBay (item 120314358106 end time Oct-13-08 01:00:00 PDT)
 or
http://cgi.ebay.com/High-End-24bit-1...d=p3286.c0.m14
 I saw these and it is made by the same guy I think.. Would that be a better option? 
 Thanks


----------



## Currawong

Those kits require a box to put them in, which you'd have to modify, and a power supply. The Zero just requires that you plug it in and turn it on.

 The Zero is the same as a headphone amp as it is a pre-amp. The output is just directed depending on whether you've got headphones plugged in or not.


----------



## seaice

Hi all!

 I was just delivered Earth, Moon and Sun v2 HDAMs several hours ago. I have tried to compare Sun and Moon in the DAC section and I must say that I am impressed by the sound of both. The overall improvement over the OPA627AU is really huge. At first listen, all is improved in all frequencies - the texture, space, details, musicality... Now I have some hard work to do in the next several weeks - to listen and compare the HDAMs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 My first impressions (only after 2 hours on Moon and 2 hours of Sun v2) - Zero with HDAM in DAC > MAC AgQ IC > LD MKV > Sennheiser 600 (with Cardas cable):

 1. Both HDAMs are much better than OPA627au.

 Comparison: (please take the following information rather as a quick first comparison between Moon and Sun v2 and not as a general characterization of their sound, even if it can say something about this)

 2.Moon: very smooth, highly detailed and balanced sound, music (jazz) flows very consistently with no weak point, applaus passages sounds much more real than Sun

 3. Sun v2: less smooth, less balanced, more dynamic (I am not sure yet if in all frequencies), more "impact" of percussions, more action, "sharper" sound, but sommetimes maybe too sharp for my ears (i.e. saxophone and persussions), applaus is considerably worse/not so real as with the Moon

 From Sun v2 and Moon I personally prefer the Moon much (more), especially because of its superb balanced, non-disturbing, solid smooth, very detailed and dynamic sound at all frequencies at the same time... On the other hand, there is something about the Sun than doesnt fit to my ears (or to my listening chain), maybe the "sharpness", maybe the less balanced sound, I am not sure yet... I must confirm this and more in the long term listening. And something can change over time, of course. Consider, I have only 2 hours listening experience with both HDAMs (same music for comparison).

 More testing in progress... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Enjoy my english 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If something unclear, tell me


----------



## bundee1

You're English is good enough to give us a great impression of those 2 HDAMs. Have you tried the Earth yet? My unit arrived 5 minutes ago so Im letting the Zero rest while I make a cradle for it. 

 Thank you for the first impressions.


----------



## seaice

I am testing the Earth just now (2-3 hours). I must say, that at first listen it is the most neutral HDAM of this trio (in the very positive way - I do not hear any weaknesses so far). In the near future I will focus on Earth vs. Moon comparison, because these are my favourite HDAMs for now - though they sound differently, neither has any weakness to my ears (setup). What is the Sun concerned, there is something that I sense as little, very little obtrusive (but even the Sun is still better than OPA 627). I am not sure what it is, I must sometimes listen several albums that I know exactly note by note... And there is still many I plan to test with these HDAMs - Senn 580/650 (with ordinary cable), AKG K701...


----------



## cybertron

Hmm, was just reading Currawong's introduction to the ZERO and I fear I may have made an impulsive purchase. Here is my setup, maybe you guys can tell me if i should have just gone with an amp. 
 my primary source is my computer using the crappy onboard Realtek soundcard. From there I go optical cable to my Logitech Z-5500 speakers, and i have my ATH-A900LTD's plugged into the z-5500 control module. 
 I've been relatively happy with this setup but I do not have anything else to compare it too. Would I have been better off just getting a Little Dot, or other amp? I spent $250 including shipping for my updated zero w/ alps, 1 hdam, and opamp upgreade.


----------



## AZNracerx1989

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Those kits require a box to put them in, which you'd have to modify, and a power supply. The Zero just requires that you plug it in and turn it on.

 The Zero is the same as a headphone amp as it is a pre-amp. The output is just directed depending on whether you've got headphones plugged in or not._

 

I don't mind making a case. And those transformers included are ready to plug into the wall. How do the DAC performances differ? Are they the same chip? How would the Zero DAC compare to say a $800 DAC?


----------



## bundee1

I just got my Earth about 2 hours ago and I just installed it. Immediate first impressions: everything sounds tighter and clearer. Vocals are better balanced with the rest of the instruments (they sounded like they werent as loud as the instruments or buried behind them). I think this is a combination of the addition of the LT1364 and the Earth. Bass is the best its been so far but it still has some time left to develop. 

 My few complaints which I hope will get better with burn in is front to back instument seperation, soundstage width, and smoothness. With the tightness in sound came a reduction in soundstage width. Everything is coming from between the speakers. I was listening to the Grateful Deads American Beauty and the guitars are on top of each where they are normally seperated. Vocals are still a little sibilant. Hopefully 3 days from now everything will have settled in. 

 WARNING: the included extension is too short to ideally place the HDAM. I have it over the vents in a little custom cradle but it barely reaches. Order a 200cm extension for a few extra bucks and save yourself the placement headache. 


 If anyone in the US has a longer extension or will be ordering from Audio-GD soon, can I piggyback an extension order with you? PM me if you can. 

 Thanks!


----------



## StratCat

^^

 I'm looking forward to hear you impressions as the HDAM matures.

 I assume your opinions are based on the HDAM vs the BB OP627?

 Anyway, I just received my quote from Audio-gd but haven't fully made up my mind as to whether I want the slight encumberance of mounting the HDAM vs the simplicity and robustivity of a replacement op-amp (BB OPA 627) since I often move my unit around on the spur-of-the moment because I use it with my laptop and my desktop.

 If I order the HDAM (likely) I'll be happy to grab a longer cable for you if you'd like (Chicago to Qeens is only one day via USPS Prioty Mail). I'll PM you if I order the HDAM to see if you're still interested.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

bundee1,

 The HDAM takes a while to settle...those limitations in sound stage will disappear.......you'll note a massive improvement in overall SQ nothing short of amazing once the required hours are on the module and Zero.

 As I stated on the previous page the BA cap tweak is a great add on to the Earth module. With my latest batch of modules (2 SUN V2 and 2 Moon ) due here tomorrow my first task even before I place them into the Zero or the SuperDAC will be to add that 1uf cap to all the modules.

 It really is an inexpensive way to top off the (almost solderless) top level Zero option, and one large notch in overall SQ below the FrankenZERO.

 I would say and have said this before (some 300 pages ago) the BA cap tweak is an essential and cheap mod whose only drawback is excessive burn in time. The use of a quality film and foil cap like the cheap and readily available K42Y-2 NOS Russian greenies makes quite a tangible and positive difference to the overall experience. 

 I'm sure other types like Mundorf, Aerovox, Vitamin Q, Auricap, Hovland etc..would be equally effective but quite a bit more expensive than the Russian cap....that is why I like the K42-Y2..they are cheap, outstanding (SQ regards) caps.

 Peete.


----------



## bundee1

I thought ordering the 100cm upgraded extension would be long enough but that just puts it right under the vent at a slight tilt. I made a cradle out of a plastic club card some electrical tape and a zip tie. I punched holes out on the sides and cut two strips out on the bottom to help ventilate the HDAM. Right now its next to those black pillar things on the headphone board and the heat from them bent the card cradle a little. Will this harm the HDAM?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought ordering the 100cm upgraded extension would be long enough but that just puts it right under the vent at a slight tilt. I made a cradle out of a plastic club card some electrical tape and a zip tie. I punched holes out on the sides and cut two strips out on the bottom to help ventilate the HDAM. Right now its next to those black pillar things on the headphone board and the heat from them bent the card cradle a little. Will this harm the HDAM?_

 

Keep it away from the analog board regulators. Heat is the enemy of all electronics. Move it up and left of the dac socket assembly ...it's OK to rest on the components adjacent to that socket since you have insulated the module quite effectively. The one drawback is not having it firmly affixed to a single spot. If the amp isn't moved around a lot then that isn't a concern.

 Have you connected the HDAM ground wire to the audio output ground (at the base of the stock RCA jack assembly. It's the center pin ) yet ?

 Peete.

 PS I recommend you keep it away from the top vent for two reasons, block (or partially block) the convection current air flow and secondly all the heat from the internal components will actually heat the module up rather than cool it down. The first point (blocking air flow) leads to even more heat overall under the chassis lid. Keep that air travel unobstructed from the inlet to the outlet. The HDAM module itself does not generate that much heat itself.


----------



## bundee1

Can you circle the spot on one of Sganzerla's pics where you want me to place the HDAM module? Ive looked for different spots but I dont think it reaches.


----------



## bundee1

[/url][/IMG]

 blue box is where hdam is currently placed.

 Where should I move it?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Try this general location bundee1.




 Mine is over the spot where all the yellow eros caps are bunched (beside the large clock can). The additional advantage to that spot is the gnd cable is able to reach to the audio ground pin of the RCA jack assembly without having to add an extension to the existing white wire.

 Peete.


----------



## bundee1

Ok I kind of did it based on your text and then confirmed it with your pic placement. Thanks its already a lot cooler to the touch.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Your welcome bundee1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## viscosity

anyone else find that single stranded silver wire is directional? when I bought my cable off ebay, it had a peice of tape with an arrow pointing the signal path in one direction... does it really make a difference?

 I only ask because when I soldered the first cable I kinda forgot about it.. and im not sure i adhered to the arrow direction. .. But made sure to check it on the second wire.

 not that I would hear a difference with my speakers anyway, but still..


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Try this general location bundee1.




 Mine is over the spot where all the yellow eros caps are bunched (beside the large clock can). The additional advantage to that spot is the gnd cable is able to reach to the audio ground pin of the RCA jack assembly without having to add an extension to the existing white wire.

 Peete._

 

How do you place it there without shorting anything? Do you have something in between the hdam and pcb?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How do you place it there without shorting anything? Do you have something in between the hdam and pcb?_

 

Hi Henmyr !!

 How are you these days ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Either wrap the entire module in electrical tape or do as AudioPhewl and bundee1 did, fashion a plastic cradle for the module from an expired credit card or some other material that will insulate the module from the parts it rests on.

 Both methods work equally well.

 Peete.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got my Earth about 2 hours ago and I just installed it. Immediate first impressions: everything sounds tighter and clearer. Vocals are better balanced with the rest of the instruments (they sounded like they werent as loud as the instruments or buried behind them). I think this is a combination of the addition of the LT1364 and the Earth. Bass is the best its been so far but it still has some time left to develop. 

 My few complaints which I hope will get better with burn in is front to back instument seperation, soundstage width, and smoothness. With the tightness in sound came a reduction in soundstage width. Everything is coming from between the speakers. I was listening to the Grateful Deads American Beauty and the guitars are on top of each where they are normally seperated. Vocals are still a little sibilant. Hopefully 3 days from now everything will have settled in. 

 WARNING: the included extension is too short to ideally place the HDAM. I have it over the vents in a little custom cradle but it barely reaches. Order a 200cm extension for a few extra bucks and save yourself the placement headache. 


 If anyone in the US has a longer extension or will be ordering from Audio-GD soon, can I piggyback an extension order with you? PM me if you can. 

 Thanks!_

 

Hiya bundee1, really hope you enjoy the Earth HDAM, big things happen from 50 hrs, as you may have heard. I've been running one in the DAC and another in my KHA (amp) and they sing great songs! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just today, I had the OPA Moon arrive and after only a few hours running I am absolutely thrilled with it in KHA! Yes, like you've found, the soundstage was restricted and female vocals were a bit glarey, but it's taken only hours for that to disappear already and I'm listening to it right at this moment, rocking out to Dave Dobbyn and it's just delightful. A touch more laid back in the mids than Earth, but very smooth and even, strings are wonderful so far. Treble a little 'rolled' and lacking great extension at the moment, though clean. Excellent dynamics on piano. In fact I'm already considering ordering a couple more OPA Moon HDAMs soonish. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 SO far I haven't bothered with the leads on the modules, I have a 'thing' about having the module away from it's sockety home and especially lying near the transformer, so I have a tower in my DAC. And in KHA. I might get over it one day, just not yet.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Henmyr !!

 How are you these days ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Either wrap the entire module in electrical tape or do as AudioPhewl and bundee1 did, fashion a plastic cradle for the module from an expired credit card or some other material that will insulate the module from the parts it rests on.

 Both methods work equally well.

 Peete._

 

Hi. I'm not posting much in this thread these days because I don't need to change much with the Zero anymore. The OPA-Earth completely stopped my op-amp rolling, as I found it to be better than anything else I've had, and by a whole lot.

 I do read this thread though. I want to solder or in another way attach the opa-earth earth-wire to the RCA-earth. Thats why I will need to place it somewhere over the PCB.

 I will try the credit card craddle first
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks.


----------



## bundee1

I wrapped a credit card in electrical tape and punched holes in the sides with a belt hole puncher. I made two 1/8"x1" vertical slits in the bottom. I folded the card into a u-shape and put the hdam in the channel formed by the card. I then wrapped it together with zip ties. So far so good but you're making me second guess the slits on the bottom if there is a chance for a short.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AZNracerx1989* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How do you guys think this DAC will work with my home audio setup? I will use my AMP10 from 41hz.com and a dvd player as a source. Does the ZERO make a good preamp+ DAC or is it strictly good for only headphones?

High Grade 24bit/192khz DAC with fully assembled kits - eBay (item 120314358106 end time Oct-13-08 01:00:00 PDT)
 or
High End 24bit/192KHz DAC Kit, Encapsulated Transformer - eBay (item 120314358081 end time Oct-13-08 01:00:00 PDT)
 I saw these and it is made by the same guy I think.. Would that be a better option? 
 Thanks_

 

Actually, AZN, I rather like the look of these, as an inveterate DIYer, make a terrific project, not that I need one at the moment with several things on the go! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for that link, I'll bookmark that one. Too busy OPA Mooning around, FrankenKit about to happen and KHA II in creation.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cybertron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm, was just reading Currawong's introduction to the ZERO and I fear I may have made an impulsive purchase. Here is my setup, maybe you guys can tell me if i should have just gone with an amp. 
 my primary source is my computer using the crappy onboard Realtek soundcard. From there I go optical cable to my Logitech Z-5500 speakers, and i have my ATH-A900LTD's plugged into the z-5500 control module. 
 I've been relatively happy with this setup but I do not have anything else to compare it too. Would I have been better off just getting a Little Dot, or other amp? I spent $250 including shipping for my updated zero w/ alps, 1 hdam, and opamp upgreade._

 

I think you've made a good choice. A good amp wont be useful unless the source is good. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AZNracerx1989* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't mind making a case. And those transformers included are ready to plug into the wall. How do the DAC performances differ? Are they the same chip? How would the Zero DAC compare to say a $800 DAC?_

 

You'll need someone who's done comparisons with those components to know.


----------



## cybertron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think you've made a good choice. A good amp wont be useful unless the source is good._

 

Thanks. Any idea what sound card would be a good choice? Anyone can chime in here. I do know that when I put my Realtek soundcard on 96KHz, i get a fair amount of crackling. I'll have to see if that is still the case with the Zero. I've wanted to upgrade my sound card though for a while now. I do have the EMU 0404, but it doesnt have a powered mic in, so I have to leave the Realtek enabled anyways. I've always thought USB was junk, but I'd be willing to try a USB output device if anyone can suggest a decently priced one.


----------



## Currawong

You could try a card that has an Toslink optical port if coax is giving you issues. Otherwise there's a $25 or so USB -> Toslink adaptor on eBay some people are using.


----------



## cybertron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You could try a card that has an Toslink optical port if coax is giving you issues. Otherwise there's a $25 or so USB -> Toslink adaptor on eBay some people are using._

 

Well I'm using optical now, the board has both, but I honestly think its more likely that the onboard sound is messed up or something. I'll play with it. It sounds like any sound card of decent quality is going to product good results. I just want a card with Toslink out... and most of the soundblaster cards dont have that. Well, some have the mini toslink I guess


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hiya bundee1, really hope you enjoy the Earth HDAM, big things happen from 50 hrs, as you may have heard. I've been running one in the DAC and another in my KHA (amp) and they sing great songs! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just today, I had the OPA Moon arrive and after only a few hours running I am absolutely thrilled with it in KHA! Yes, like you've found, the soundstage was restricted and female vocals were a bit glarey, but it's taken only hours for that to disappear already and I'm listening to it right at this moment, rocking out to Dave Dobbyn and it's just delightful. A touch more laid back in the mids than Earth, but very smooth and even, strings are wonderful so far. Treble a little 'rolled' and lacking great extension at the moment, though clean. Excellent dynamics on piano. In fact I'm already considering ordering a couple more OPA Moon HDAMs soonish. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 SO far I haven't bothered with the leads on the modules, I have a 'thing' about having the module away from it's sockety home and especially lying near the transformer, so I have a tower in my DAC. And in KHA. I might get over it one day, just not yet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

remember to get ur free gift. alps pot, rca plug.


----------



## glitch39

anyone knows the output impedance of the zero?

 will it change with addition of an HDAM? how about if it's in pre-amp mode?

 TIA


----------



## Golden Monkey

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *glitch39* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyone knows the output impedance of the zero?

 will it change with addition of an HDAM? how about if it's in pre-amp mode?

 TIA_

 


 Your sig makes me sad


----------



## Lenni

just received the ZERO but I'm not sure how to use it. I'd like to use it as a DAC connecting laptot to a pair of Audioengine A2 desktop speakers. atm a connect the A2 to a mp3 player via a mini-to-mini Qcable.
 My guess is that I use the usb cable to connect the laptop to the Digital PCLink and the optical cable from the PCLink to the back of the ZERO, and then use the mini-to-mini from the HP jack of the ZERO to the speaker. sorry about the noob question, but is that the right way to use it?

 also both the ZERO and the speaker have RCA ports, so maybe that's another option to connet the ZERO and the speakers? but I don't have the cable for that right now

 please help


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lenni* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_just received the ZERO but I'm not sure how to use it. I'd like to use it as a DAC connecting laptot to a pair of Audioengine A2 desktop speakers. atm a connect the A2 to a mp3 player via a mini-to-mini Qcable.
 My guess is that I use the usb cable to connect the laptop to the Digital PCLink and the optical cable from the PCLink to the back of the ZERO, and then use the mini-to-mini from the HP jack of the ZERO to the speaker. sorry about the noob question, but is that the right way to use it?

 also both the ZERO and the speaker have RCA ports, so maybe that's another option to connet the ZERO and the speakers? but I don't have the cable for that right now

 please help_

 

 Hi Lenni, you've got the basic links to the Zero correct. The PCLink works well. As far as the HP socket to your speakers goes, I take it you don't have headphones or don't want to use them? You don't say what the RCAs on your speakers are for, so I'd have to hazard a guess you can use them as a line-input and use a vol pot on the speakers? What does the manual for your speakers say about that input? IF you have no vol on the speakers, then you could use the pre-out function on the Zero for best sound quality, you must push the pre-amp button to make it green. You do need to find out though if those RCAs on the speakers are direct in to the amps or go via the vol control. See how you go. S-Man


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_remember to get ur free gift. alps pot, rca plug._

 

Too right, cc, I am utterly enthralled with OPA Moon in KHA, a match made in heaven! Blown away so far. So I am going to order more OPA Moon modules pretty soon. I'm also considering a small first impressions review of this HDAM in a new thread. In the context of my own system, and especially with KHA, it's a revelation! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 S-Man


----------



## bundee1

I got my free RCA jacks, wire and I ordered the alps pot from them. Anyone install their own pot? Any tips on removing that blue casing from the pot?

 Also anyone who is using that Aoyue 2700 soldering iron or any iron with adjustable temp, what temp do you solder with?

 Oh ordering from Audio-GD was painless. Email them with what you want and they send you a total. Paypal the amount and 3 days later receive your stuff. I got my stuff superfast from China to NYC.


----------



## Lenni

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Lenni, you've got the basic links to the Zero correct. The PCLink works well. As far as the HP socket to your speakers goes, I take it you don't have headphones or don't want to use them? You don't say what the RCAs on your speakers are for, so I'd have to hazard a guess you can use them as a line-input and use a vol pot on the speakers? What does the manual for your speakers say about that input? IF you have no vol on the speakers, then you could use the pre-out function on the Zero for best sound quality, you must push the pre-amp button to make it green. You do need to find out though if those RCAs on the speakers are direct in to the amps or go via the vol control. See how you go. S-Man 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hi sennsay, thanks for the reply! I'm falling behind this thread last 200 pages for not having time to read. I have none headphones atm as I sold the D2000 and the akg earbuds+X5 were stolen yesterday - but I'm gonna get a pair of akg701 soon.
 the Audioengine A2 have a volume pot and the RCA ports should work with any product outputs
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.Link
 what's the benefit (if any) of using the RCA ports instead of the 1/8" mini-jack?


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lenni* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi sennsay, thanks for the reply! I'm falling behind this thread last 200 pages for not having time to read. I have none headphones atm as I sold the D2000 and the akg earbuds+X5 were stolen yesterday - but I'm gonna get a pair of akg701 soon.
 the Audioengine A2 have a volume pot and the RCA ports should work with any product outputs
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.Link
 what's the benefit (if any) of using the RCA ports instead of the 1/8" mini-jack?_

 

The RCAs are generally a better quality input, Lenni, give it a go switching the Zero to pre-amp mode (green light) and connecting from the Zero's output RCA jacks to the RCAs on your speakers. Keep the vol low for starters. I imagine your speakers have amps in them, so the Zero will act as a nice pre-amp for them until you get your new cans.
 BTW, I have posted a new thread on my first impressions of OPA Moon on the Head-Fi site and I say this because I have a suspicion that OPA Moon will go really well with the 701s, from what I have heard about them from others. Cheers, S-Man.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ BTW, I have posted a new thread on my first impressions of OPA Moon on the Head-Fi site and I say this because I have a suspicion that OPA Moon will go really well with the 701s, from what I have heard about them from others._

 

Link?


----------



## FinalAura

Hello all, i'm new here, and pretty new to audio as well. I would like to buy on of these Zero DAC's, but I have some questions first... before purchasing.

 I plan to use this DAC for my computer only, for games and music. My motherboard (gigabyte p35 ds3r) has both coax and optical input via realtek. I should be good to go with that right? I also have an x-fi xtreme gamer sound card, but don't have the toslink adapter for it. I plan on selling the sound card anyways, because, as I understand, digital is digital, and the soundcard wont sound different from my motherboard sound, right?

 I will be using my new JVC HA-RX700 which I read was pretty good, coming very close to ATH A900's. I also use Swan m10 speakers. Would it be worth it to purchase the Zero for these? If not, i'll just stick with my sound card.

 Also, which seller on ebay should I buy from? Well, I only see one, user: wsz0304. Is he legit?

 Thanks for all the help!


----------



## bundee1

I bought my zero from him and was vey satisfied with the quality of the unit and his service. I don't think he offers as many upgrades though.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Link?_

 

Sorry if it's taken me awhile to reply, mate, I had some work to go to this avo. here's the link on the front page:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/moo...ssions-372219/


----------



## StratCat

sennsay;4862355 said:
			
		

> Sorry if it's taken me awhile to reply, mate, I had some work to go to this avo. here's the link on the front page:
> http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/moo...ssions-372219/
> 
> Thx!


----------



## ccschua

I had just received the OPA Moon, in fact the mass order was received. So just put in the OPA Moon and test.

 wow.


----------



## bundee1

Can anyone give me basic temperatures to use when soldering and desoldering. I tried soldering and desoldering yesterday and nothing would come loose or stick. 

 BTW Radio Shack desoldering braid sucks. It kept removing the tinning on my iron instead of the solder on the joints.


----------



## viscosity

desolder vacuum is much easier to use then the braid, imo


----------



## dogteal

I purchased one of these on ebay from wsz0304 and it seems to not be working properly. I purchased it to replace using my Meier Corda 2Move as a DAC. Currently I have it setup as follows: PC > USB Cable > 2Move > headphone to RCA > Amplifier portion of my Integrated amp via jumper section of the amp > Headphones. 

 I figured I could do the same setup with the Zero, but instead of using the usb cable use the optical cable from motherboard to Zero. That didn't work though. No sound came out. next I tried using the toslink adapter, so now it was: PC > USB > Adapter > Optical > Zero > Headphone out of Zero to RCA amplifier section of Integrated amp. With this setup there was sound, but the left speaker was not really working well, and there was a lot of movement on it, also the sound was very loud from the right speaker. Next setup I tried using the line out RCA on the back of the Zero to the RCA Amplifier section of my Integrated Amp. This produced sound out of the left speaker briefly and the right speaker had static. The sound was also very loud. During this whole time I was shutting things down, jiggling wires, reconnecting wires, and switching between the preamp button on the zero. None of this really made a difference, although upon reconnecting the wires one time, it shorted my Int Amp. At this point I gave up. 

 Anyhow, if someone has any idea what I could try so that I can make the Zero work properly, it would be much appreciated. I would like to figure it out with the help of the forums rather than sending it back to China.

 edit: With headphones out of the DAC, and not a headphone to RCA in to Int Amp, the sound was pretty much identical, no sound from the left headphone, with loud sound from the right headphone.


----------



## ccschua

My first impression with OPA Earth is nothing short of surprises. Each time with the OPA release like OPA Moon, the sound quality improve by another level.

 The Moon OPA is more transparent, surprisingly than OPA Earth. The vocal is warm as in thick and airy. Listening to the Jazz at Pawnshop, the bells are not as bright as OPA Earth which is more neutral. The bass department is good too and dynamics response is so so only. Overall Moon does excell than OPA Earth. surprise.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can anyone give me basic temperatures to use when soldering and desoldering. I tried soldering and desoldering yesterday and nothing would come loose or stick. 

 BTW Radio Shack desoldering braid sucks. It kept removing the tinning on my iron instead of the solder on the joints._

 

Between 25 and 35 Watts is good I find....the braid is horrible, the manual pump works far better, with the integrated iron and vacuum pump my go to tool for any de-soldering work. The last option is the easiest and fastest way to do a good job ( I bought mine for 5 dollars on clearance sale at the end of the summer from RS).

 Peete.


 PS CC....wow is right (the Moon module). Details to come at a later date once it's had enough cooking time in a few spots ( Super DAC for now, Frankie up next).


----------



## Lenni

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dogteal* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I purchased one of these on ebay from wsz0304 and it seems to not be working properly. I purchased it to replace using my Meier Corda 2Move as a DAC. Currently I have it setup as follows: PC > USB Cable > 2Move > headphone to RCA > Amplifier portion of my Integrated amp via jumper section of the amp > Headphones. 

 I figured I could do the same setup with the Zero, but instead of using the usb cable use the optical cable from motherboard to Zero. That didn't work though. No sound came out. next I tried using the toslink adapter, so now it was: PC > USB > Adapter > Optical > Zero > Headphone out of Zero to RCA amplifier section of Integrated amp. With this setup there was sound, but the left speaker was not really working well, and there was a lot of movement on it, also the sound was very loud from the right speaker. Next setup I tried using the line out RCA on the back of the Zero to the RCA Amplifier section of my Integrated Amp. This produced sound out of the left speaker briefly and the right speaker had static. The sound was also very loud. During this whole time I was shutting things down, jiggling wires, reconnecting wires, and switching between the preamp button on the zero. None of this really made a difference, although upon reconnecting the wires one time, it shorted my Int Amp. At this point I gave up. 

 Anyhow, if someone has any idea what I could try so that I can make the Zero work properly, it would be much appreciated. I would like to figure it out with the help of the forums rather than sending it back to China.

 edit: With headphones out of the DAC, and not a headphone to RCA in to Int Amp, the sound was pretty much identical, no sound from the left headphone, with loud sound from the right headphone._

 

same here, no sound coming out from both speakers.
 here is how I set it up: PC > usb > PCLink > optical > Zero > HP jack (Zero) > speaker jack. in this set up only when I press the preamp button I get sound from one speaker, then I tried the RCA ports instead of the jacks and both speaker works but there's no difference in sound at all, again when I press the preamp button there's a change in sound but come out only from one speaker. Any ideas?

 also when I first switched on the zero the power blue light came on, now only the optical blue light works.
 no feeling very positive atm


----------



## MasZakrY

I've managed to make it through 500 pages of this monster thread but still cannot nail down an answer to a question. If I have the OPA627 in the DAC (may go for a Earth), what is the best OPAMP to get for the headphone stage? I've heard the LT1364 is much better than the LT1469 and the LM4562 has a very recessed midrange. Are there any other options to put in these sockets that sound even better without getting an external headphone amp? I have Alessandro MS2i's as a reference to what sound signiature I have already. I am slightly concerned that the stock LT1364 may not be real so I'll order another set of those if you guys think they are the best


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My first impression with OPA Earth is nothing short of surprises. Each time with the OPA release, the sound quality improve by another level.

 The Moon OPA is more transparent, surprisingly than OPA Earth. The vocal is warm as in thick and airy. Listening to the Jazz at Pawnshop, the bells are not as bright as OPA Earth which is more neutral. The bass department is good too and dynamics response is so so only. Overall Moon does excell than OPA Earth. surprise._

 

Hi cc, interesting comparing notes with you. Where do you have the Moon? I still have Earth in the DAC, OPA Moon is in my amp and that's where it truly sings! I have stunning dynamics with it there! Ooh mama, cooking on gas type dynamics! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There is still much burn time to go, it's had about 23 hours now, the mids have smoothed a bit, as you noticed in the vocals, though definition and diction are superb. I agree on the transparency, despite the extra mid warmth, but this works so well in KHA, balancing the slight tendency to be mid forward. Treble quality blows me away and I'm thrilled to bits with the tangible solidity of percussion. I'd be very interested to hear what Pench has to say about it. Surprise is right! I sure didn't expect this little honey.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lenni* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_same here, no sound coming out from both speakers.
 here is how I set it up: PC > usb > PCLink > optical > Zero > HP jack (Zero) > speaker jack. in this set up only when I press the preamp button I get sound from one speaker, then I tried the RCA ports instead of the jacks and both speaker works but there's no difference in sound at all, again when I press the preamp button there's a change in sound but come out only from one speaker. Any ideas?

 also when I first switched on the zero the power blue light came on, now only the optical blue light works.
 no feeling very positive atm 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hmm, I'm not entirely sure how I can help you there, but be VERY careful going direct from the Zero's DAC out (RCAs) into your speakers if the green pre-amp light is NOT on! Especially with music playing, you will get the full output of the DAC straight into the amp if it isn't going via a pot on your speakers. You might find them flying past your ears! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 I did that twice, (heh heh 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) with a 130W power amp and was lucky not to have added to the space junk in orbit. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 One thing, can you borrow some cans just to test that the h/phone socket is giving you both channels? And it might pay to pop the lid of the Zero and just check that the op-amps are seated in their respective sockets. Others have needed to do this from time to time. If you're not keen on that, at least check the h/p socket. Cheers, S-Man


----------



## ScottieB

DAMN YOUS GUYS!!!

 hey, shut up, wallet!

 Have an email inquiry in to Audio-GD what with all this Moon talk... just when I think I'm satisfied...


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_DAMN YOUS GUYS!!!

 hey, shut up, wallet!

 Have an email inquiry in to Audio-GD what with all this Moon talk... just when I think I'm satisfied... _

 

Heh heh, sorry about that ScottieB, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 does it help to tell you I've just ordered 3 more? I can barely leave the puta at the moment to even get breakfast! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 S-Man
 I think I can smell burning ....


----------



## ScottieB

Well kingwa offered me a discount because of my minor issues with the Earth/Sun leads on my original order, and I just happen to have the right amount sitting in my paypal... ha no-brainer.


----------



## viscosity

some people are just never satisfied


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *viscosity* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_some people are just never satisfied 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 






 And man am I happy my ... um ... dissatisfaction brought me to Mad Man Moon! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sorry, I'm an old Genesis fan from way back. Da S-Man


----------



## direcow

so those who have got the moon> what do you suggest? still earth in DAC and 2x moon in amp? or moon in dac?

 Looks like the sun is on it's way out... but so many permutations.


----------



## seaice

Moon is really great, especially with Cardassed Sennheiser 600 (I prefer 600 over 650 in any configuration with the Moon),

 But AKG701 is better with Earth for me (compared to Moon). 

 (all HDAMs in Dac > LD MKV)


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi cc, interesting comparing notes with you. Where do you have the Moon? I still have Earth in the DAC, OPA Moon is in my amp and that's where it truly sings! I have stunning dynamics with it there! Ooh mama, cooking on gas type dynamics! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There is still much burn time to go, it's had about 23 hours now, the mids have smoothed a bit, as you noticed in the vocals, though definition and diction are superb. I agree on the transparency, despite the extra mid warmth, but this works so well in KHA, balancing the slight tendency to be mid forward. Treble quality blows me away and I'm thrilled to bits with the tangible solidity of percussion. I'd be very interested to hear what Pench has to say about it. Surprise is right! I sure didn't expect this little honey. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Please, make a quick Earth/Moon on Zero DAC section..... It would be nice to compare them there...


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MasZakrY* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've managed to make it through 500 pages of this monster thread but still cannot nail down an answer to a question. If I have the OPA627 in the DAC (may go for a Earth), what is the best OPAMP to get for the headphone stage? I've heard the LT1364 is much better than the LT1469 and the LM4562 has a very recessed midrange. Are there any other options to put in these sockets that sound even better without getting an external headphone amp? I have Alessandro MS2i's as a reference to what sound signiature I have already. I am slightly concerned that the stock LT1364 may not be real so I'll order another set of those if you guys think they are the best 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes. The LT1364s seem to be the go. I swapped out the opamps in my Little Dot MKV with them for further testing and I like the result. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *direcow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so those who have got the moon> what do you suggest? still earth in DAC and 2x moon in amp? or moon in dac?

 Looks like the sun is on it's way out... but so many permutations. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Better still, what I'm going to try is the Earth in the DAC and two Moons in my LD MKV! I found there was enough space if they sit atop the voltage regulators, which don't even get warm!


----------



## Lenni

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm, I'm not entirely sure how I can help you there, but be VERY careful going direct from the Zero's DAC out (RCAs) into your speakers if the green pre-amp light is NOT on! Especially with music playing, you will get the full output of the DAC straight into the amp if it isn't going via a pot on your speakers. You might find them flying past your ears! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 I did that twice, (heh heh 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) with a 130W power amp and was lucky not to have added to the space junk in orbit. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 One thing, can you borrow some cans just to test that the h/phone socket is giving you both channels? And it might pay to pop the lid of the Zero and just check that the op-amps are seated in their respective sockets. Others have needed to do this from time to time. If you're not keen on that, at least check the h/p socket. Cheers, S-Man_

 

I swapped the LT1364 and the sound came out only from the other speaker, however distorted, so it seems one of the LT1364 is at fault.
 it sucks though


----------



## bundee1

Anyone have pictures and tips on how to do the alps pot mod? I got mine and was wondering how to remove the blue casing. I posted this in DIY thread but I havent seen many participants in that thread.


----------



## Currawong

You can't use the one with the blue casing, it's too big and the casing can't be removed. I made the same mistake - you have to order one from Lawrence.


----------



## seaice

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes. The LT1364s seem to be the go. I swapped out the opamps in my Little Dot MKV with them for further testing and I like the result. 


 Better still, what I'm going to try is the Earth in the DAC and two Moons in my LD MKV! I found there was enough space if they sit atop the voltage regulators, which don't even get warm!_

 

I am very interested in this! This is something I plan to do (especially the HDAMs in MKV). Are there any modifications in MKV neccesary to roll the opamps? Is it necessary to (de)solder something in MKV? And is the result with 1364 in MKV better than stock opamps in MKV?

 Thanks for your enquiry!


----------



## bundee1

why won't it work? is it a question of the case being in the way? ill saw through it if I have to .it only costs $8 to replace. will it not work without the blue case? are the pins different?

 just wondering if its possible but very work intensive. 

 btw I managed to desolder my first caps from an old philips pro dvd player. rubycons yay.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 PS CC....wow is right (the Moon module). Details to come at a later date once it's had enough cooking time in a few spots ( Super DAC for now, Frankie up next)._

 

Hi PP, 

 Cant wait to hear your review, guess another 3 days should be ready rite. the burn in should more or less stabilize after 100 hours, though 250 is the best.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes. The LT1364s seem to be the go. I swapped out the opamps in my Little Dot MKV with them for further testing and I like the result. 



 Better still, what I'm going to try is the Earth in the DAC and two Moons in my LD MKV! I found there was enough space if they sit atop the voltage regulators, which don't even get warm!_

 

Hey CW!

 Please tell me more on the MKV Opamp swap out. I haven't torn mine apart yet, but I would consider it, if your results were positive? Thanks Bro!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone have pictures and tips on how to do the alps pot mod? I got mine and was wondering how to remove the blue casing. I posted this in DIY thread but I havent seen many participants in that thread._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_why won't it work? is it a question of the case being in the way? ill saw through it if I have to .it only costs $8 to replace. will it not work without the blue case? are the pins different?

 just wondering if its possible but very work intensive. 

 btw I managed to desolder my first caps from an old philips pro dvd player. rubycons yay._

 

Hey bundee1,

 In my signature, is a link to the Alps Pot Mod in this thread. Give it a close look over, and you'll see the space issues at hand. So far, only the NOS Alps 100 pots that Lawrence sells, fits into the small space we have to work with.


----------



## pincellone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey bundee1,

 In my signature, is a link to the Alps Pot Mod in this thread. Give it a close look over, and you'll see the space issues at hand. So far, only the NOS Alps 100 pots that Lawrence sells, fits into the small space we have to work with._

 

Actually,there are further options to install a pot into the Zero... Credit goes to Maurarte for this one


----------



## bundee1

is the board turned around?


----------



## oofie810

My Zero is stuck inside a very big plane with plenty of gas

 Detailed Results:

 Foreign International Dispatch, October 09, 2008, 2:07 pm, HONG KONG AIR MAIL CENTRE, HONG KONG
 Origin Post is Preparing Shipment
 Foreign Acceptance, October 08, 2008, 4:08 pm, HONG KONG


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_is the board turned around?_

 

From what I gather the pot is inverted and the connection is made by wires instead of being connected to the PCB directly.


----------



## sennsay

Hi all, after a couple of constructive comments, I have updated my OPA Moon HDAM first impressions review, included now are links for KHA, since there have been questions about this amp.
 Cheers Moon walkers! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 S-Man

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/opa...ssions-372219/


----------



## MasZakrY

I just received my "upgraded" Zero and it has NE5532P opamps in the headphone amp board. I guess I'll still be waiting for those samples to come... If I'm not mistaken the NE5532P is really bad compared to any of the opamps mentioned here...


----------



## bundee1

The stock opamps arent terrible but the LT1364s are much better. 

 Would the pot fit the right way if you drilled holes for the screws a few millimeters away? You could also use screws with the same thread size but larger heads. Hmmm... 

 I have to improve my soldering skills anyway so this is still a few weeks off.


----------



## bundee1

Here's a pic of the pot Audio-Gd is selling with the back removed. 








 dont take the dumb test! Its just an annoying thing that glommed itself onto my image.


----------



## cybertron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oofie810* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Zero is stuck inside a very big plane with plenty of gas

 Detailed Results:

 Foreign International Dispatch, October 09, 2008, 2:07 pm, HONG KONG AIR MAIL CENTRE, HONG KONG
 Origin Post is Preparing Shipment
 Foreign Acceptance, October 08, 2008, 4:08 pm, HONG KONG





_

 

you order from Lawrence? He said mine would go out this week as well, but didnt know if i'd get a tracking number. Sure hope I do... itching to get my hands on this bad boy


----------



## bundee1

How the heck do you remove the stock volume knob from the zero?


----------



## bundee1

And for those wondering about correct placement of the HDAM with a short extension:

 CORRECT





[/url][/IMG]

 INCORRECT NONONO! (Will melt your cradle!)





[/url][/IMG]


----------



## Olev

I have used mu Earth just like the bottom picture, it is running cool there and no problems. The headamp section radiators are hot but they don't touch the HDAM.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How the heck do you remove the stock volume knob from the zero?_

 

Gently pull it off, it takes a little effort but it does come off.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Olev* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have used mu Earth just like the bottom picture, it is running cool there and no problems. The headamp section radiators are hot but they don't touch the HDAM._

 

For those using a plastic cradle the original spot was/is problematic as it was melting his cradle. I like to keep the inlet vents free of obstruction and the HDAM away from the transformer. 

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi PP, 

 Cant wait to hear your review, guess another 3 days should be ready rite. the burn in should more or less stabilize after 100 hours, though 250 is the best._

 

Once I give the Moon a full cycle (200 hours +) I'll give it a serious session and post the results....I figure 2 weeks at least of 24/7 operation....that will break in the DIY DAC which I just completed today at the same time (bypass mods and such).

 Another member brought up the BA cap tweak and the current REV audio-gd modules....My question to you CC or anyone else that can answer ...Can the BA tweak (PIO across V- V+ pins) function at the same time with the current REV HDAMs that have the poly box caps from V- and V+ tied to module gnd ?

 Is there a potential electrical conflict by adding the BA tweak to the Rev 2 audio-gd modules ?


 I don't think so but that could be wrong 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Olev

But why use a casing for the HDAM? Just use the straps to isolate it from the chassis and fix it firmly. Took me 5 straps (the pictures above show one white strap, this can't be accomplished by just one, use 2 on the bottom holes, then 3 around the HDAM to fix it to the ones running thru bottom holes).


----------



## BigTony

Ok, I've just sent my e-mail off to Lawrence to buy one of these puppies will all the 'extra's' ! Well I 'need' a headamp in my study. I also plan to have some fun mucking about with the innards, as this piece of kit seems to lend itself to those with a trusty soldering iron.


----------



## oofie810

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cybertron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you order from Lawrence? He said mine would go out this week as well, but didnt know if i'd get a tracking number. Sure hope I do... itching to get my hands on this bad boy _

 

Yes I did. He usually ships out his stuff on the weekends from what I read here. I've been waiting for mine for about 15 or so days now...


----------



## Currawong

This is how I placed my HDAM, with it tucked slightly under the lip of the casing at the back.






 The earth wire is soldered to the RCA earth.


----------



## bundee1

Currawong can you post a better picture of the rca solder point for the ground wire?


----------



## oofie810

So while I've been (im)patiently waiting for my zero, I've been using my entry level Onkyo receiver connected to my mbp using my hd650s. There should be an improvement with the zero over the onkyo, right? This would be my first decent setup together with an ld mkIII on order so I dont have any clue on how it would sound.


----------



## ScottieB

oofie I'd have to think this would be a pretty major step up. The Zero alone would likely be, but with the LD MKIII it's gonna be quite obvious I think. My Harmon Kardon receiver is no slouch, but my Zero/MKIII setup blows it away - especially with my HD600s. I really love the synergy between the Zero and the MKIII. edit to add - just make sure you use good sources - CDs or lossless audio files. MP3s, while they don't sound horrible, will reveal their shortcomings with your new setup!


----------



## Steve The Egg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_oofie I'd have to think this would be a pretty major step up. The Zero alone would likely be, but with the LD MKIII it's gonna be quite obvious I think. My Harmon Kardon receiver is no slouch, but my Zero/MKIII setup blows it away - especially with my HD600s. I really love the synergy between the Zero and the MKIII. edit to add - just make sure you use good sources - CDs or lossless audio files. MP3s, while they don't sound horrible, will reveal their shortcomings with your new setup!_

 

Would that set up (Zero + MKIII) be appropriate for for Denon 2000's or similar low impedance headphones?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oofie810* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So while I've been (im)patiently waiting for my zero, I've been using my entry level Onkyo receiver connected to my mbp using my hd650s. There should be an improvement with the zero over the onkyo, right? This would be my first decent setup together with an ld mkIII on order so I dont have any clue on how it would sound._

 

Yes. The Zero plus MkIII is a proven upgrade combination, that many in this thread enjoy daily, including myself. Sure, you'll do some tube rolling and Opamp swapping, but the overall sound will be much improved over what you had previously. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 You are about to have a bunch of fun!


----------



## Steve The Egg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes. The Zero plus MkIII is a proven upgrade combination, that many in this thread enjoy daily, including myself. Sure, you'll do some tube rolling and Opamp swapping, but the overall sound will be much improved over what you had previously. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You are about to have a bunch of fun! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

My mobo has a digital output. Will that cause any degradation in sound quality or should I invest in a dedicated sound card?


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Currawong can you post a better picture of the rca solder point for the ground wire?_

 

The RCA jacks have a big metal leg sticking out in the centre - big enough you can see it shining in my picture. Just solder it on to that.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Steve The Egg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My mobo has a digital output. Will that cause any degradation in sound quality or should I invest in a dedicated sound card?_

 


 Steve that's hard to answer - some say their built-in cards are just fine, others have tried them and opted to upgrade. The most common problem seems to be "crackling" - I'd suggest trying your built-in first and if not happy, then upgrade. No sense in spending more money if you're satisfied... but this IS head-fi... satisfaction, if achieved, is only temporary


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Steve The Egg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My mobo has a digital output. Will that cause any degradation in sound quality or should I invest in a dedicated sound card?_

 

Depends on the chip/implementation. 

 My mobo has a realtek chip that is capable of bit-perfect, so it will only act as transport not touching / altering the sound, this is important.

 Fortunately no problems with "crackling" etc.


----------



## oofie810

ScottieB and Penchum, thanks for the vote of confidence. I've been doubting myself since buying the zero and mkIII because my onkyo sounds decent enough for me as I dont have any prior experience with hi-fi. Its especially hard for me because I have no idea how good music should sound.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oofie810* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ScottieB and Penchum, thanks for the vote of confidence. I've been doubting myself since buying the zero and mkIII because my onkyo sounds decent enough for me as I dont have any prior experience with hi-fi. Its especially hard for me because I have no idea how good music should sound._

 

No worries.... you will very soon. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's crazy the quality of sound you can get for the money with headphones (compared with speakers that is).


----------



## MasZakrY

I would highly reccomend that anyone who is going to order from Lawrence get the vanilla version and not the "upgraded" one. Mine did not have the upgraded opamp's (had NE5532P instead), which was stated in the auction that they were. Additionally the "upgraded" OPA627 is "ifffy", I'm not convinced that it is the real deal. Even if it was real, your best bet is to order the vanilla version (save your money!), order in a HDAM from GD and get LT1364 samples for free. My 2c.


----------



## MadMan007

Hi. Long time lurker first time poster, I just registered after reading about this neat unit. It appeals to the budget-quality and bang-for-buck audio enthusiast in me. I've read a good deal of the thread but when I realized how huge it is and started getting in to alternate op-amp selection I stopped, maybe some day I can read the whole thing?!

 Anyhow I need some specific advice if possible. I currently use a Squeezebox v3 as my source in to a vintage Yamaha amp and listen either to speakers (Yamaha NS-1000M) or headphones (Grado SR-80.) So my primary use for this unit would be as a DAC about 80% of the time and headphone amp 20% of the time rather than going through the amp. I've never had a separate DAC and chose the Squeezebox because it is supposed to have a decent DAC section. So my specific question is if anyone has used this unit as a DAC for a Squeezebox v3 and if so would it be a significant improvement or just a subtle one? If you don't have a Squeezebox guesses would be ok (I bet they'll be along the lines of 'yea it will be better' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) or input from anyone who has bypassed the Squeezebox DAC would be helpful too. Thanks!


----------



## bundee1

yes ithe zero is a million times better thab the sb3 dac. I have a similar setup and the zero kills the sb3. the sb3 dac has harsh highs, a constricted soundstage and no seperation. you can also use the preamp so you don't degrade the sound quality by using the digital volum control.


----------



## MasZakrY

Is there any advantage of getting opamps in the TO-99 package? For some reason, Azuzentech charges 5x more for this version to the PDIP version. Here is what I mean:


----------



## MadMan007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yes ithe zero is a million times better thab the sb3 dac. I have a similar setup and the zero kills the sb3. the sb3 dac has harsh highs, a constricted soundstage and no seperation. you can also use the preamp so you don't degrade the sound quality by using the digital volum control._

 

Thanks for the reply, I'm glad someone with an SB3 replied quickly. That's what I figured but there's no way to know what's different or what the improvement might be until you try. I assume it's that much better even with the default opamps? I both look forward to and fear opamp swapping 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 never know when it will end.

 As for the digital volume control, you mean use the Zero's preamp volume control and not the sb3 one right? To do that you leave the sb3 volume control at max? From what I understand that's the way to bypass digital volume controls.


----------



## tommy_uk77

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MasZakrY* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would highly reccomend that anyone who is going to order from Lawrence get the vanilla version and not the "upgraded" one. Mine did not have the upgraded opamp's (had NE5532P instead), which was stated in the auction that they were. Additionally the "upgraded" OPA627 is "ifffy", I'm not convinced that it is the real deal. Even if it was real, your best bet is to order the vanilla version (save your money!), order in a HDAM from GD and get LT1364 samples for free. My 2c._

 

how to get LT1364 samples for free?
 can tech me how?


----------



## bundee1

its easier to get them from lineartech for free if you are in the us but you still need some kind of "business" name to request them. they say if you are in a foreign country one of their reps has to call you and that's more stuff to make up. 

 for sb3 users yes even the stock amp with opa627 sounds better than the sb3 and yes that is how bypass the volume control. you can also go to the control panel in squeezecenter and set the digital output to fixed so the volume is fixed.


----------



## MasZakrY

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tommy_uk77* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_how to get LT1364 samples for free?
 can tech me how?_

 

Linear Technology - Linear Home Page

 Add two LT1364 to your cart and go to the samples checkout. Mine got shipped out a few days ago.


----------



## oofie810

Yesss...finally, my Zero came in today 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Very very happy with it, guess I'll be glued to my comp and 'phones this whole weekend.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MasZakrY* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there any advantage of getting opamps in the TO-99 package? For some reason, Azuzentech charges 5x more for this version to the PDIP version. Here is what I mean:




_

 

I don't think there'd be any benefit. May as well just get the HDAM then if you're going to spend money.

 As for the idea of just buying the base unit and upgrading it yourself that's not a bad idea. I think there have been a couple of people who had issues involving the upgraded version having problems with the socketed OPA627s. That doesn't mean doing it yourself wont have issues though. The mistakes mostly involved the opamps being socketed the wrong way around, which fries them, hence my big, close-up pictures showing which way around things should be.

 You can order LT1364 samples from this link. You want the PDIP version.


----------



## MadMan007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_its easier to get them from lineartech for free if you are in the us but you still need some kind of "business" name to request them. they say if you are in a foreign country one of their reps has to call you and that's more stuff to make up. 

 for sb3 users yes even the stock amp with opa627 sounds better than the sb3 and yes that is how bypass the volume control. you can also go to the control panel in squeezecenter and set the digital output to fixed so the volume is fixed._

 

Got it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The only thing I'm not clear on is you say OPA627 are the stock opamps...I thought (and the various eBay auctions say) OPA2604 is the standard. I read some about the 'upgraded' versions with alternate opamps and also I think a new transformer (all seem to have the new tansformer now), maybe I just don't see any alternate opamp ones for sale atm. *edit* Nevermind, I see some with OPA627s. The OPA2604 is still pretty good yea? Or should I get the OPA627 version to start? I can also try rolling opamps later, if I can't get samples how much do they usually cost?

 I would really like to hear which Opamp I should go for first so I can get started


----------



## bundee1

get the one that has the 627 as standard. The 627 sounded great after 100 hours.


----------



## MadMan007

Cool you're on right now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also, is the Xitel DG2 USB-optical a decent piece of gear for doing that conversion? There are some auctions that include the Xitel 'free' along with the upgraded opamps. I wouldn't be using the Xitel with the sb3 in this case but it would be something I'd like to have as long as it doesn't do a poor job of it.

 I think I need to reread some of the thread, I may be a little confused about the opamps. The first post shows dual 627s in the DAC section and they look like a socket format, the 'upgrade' version on ebay shows a single 627 on an adaptor. So is the 627-upgrade version for the DAC sections, and are dual opamps better or necessary? Also regarding opamps, are the second set of opamps listed in the first post are for the headphone output right, if so what is the standard headphone section opamp? It doesn't seem to be specified anywhere.

 I listen to almost all types of music aside from really twangy country and gangsta rap so I'd need it to be versatile across all music types. I also prefer non-colored sources generally, 'straight wire with gain' is my preference although a little bit of fullness in the low end or a little 'musicality' is good too I don't like tihngs overly analyitcal and digitized too much either. Would those preferences affect which opamp version I should get initially?

 Btw my amp is an integrated amp which means it has its own preamp as well. Will that be a problem since the Zero has its own volume as well and what should the different volume controls be set to? I'd still like to use the preamp in the amp I already have and just use the Zero as a DAC source.

 Also, should I be worried about the 627 frying and double check it before powering up?

 Sorry for having lots of questions and lots of edits, thanks for the input!


----------



## bundee1

Save up to get the Earth and Moon Hdams.


----------



## MadMan007

Well ok then. I saw those, they are effectively discrete component opamps right? 

 Also I edited this in to my last post but will ask again 'Btw my amp is an integrated amp which means it has its own preamp as well. Will that be a problem since the Zero has its own volume as well and what should the different volume controls be set to? I'd still like to use the preamp in the amp I already have and just use the Zero as a DAC source.' *Nevermind, I reread the first post and understand that the volume control in the Zero can be defeated to use it as a pure DAC with no volume control. So I guess the question the becomes, what would be the best way to use the Zero plus an integrated amp?

 I have posted a bunch of other questions if anyone else wants to answer tomorrow 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have a (bad) habit of coming up with a number of questions and posting them all at once then half of them get ignored


----------



## Syu

Let me ask some questions.

 1) When I use ZERO only as DAC, the only working OPAMP is DAC OPAMP, right?

 2) If I use ZERO only as DAC, volume pot upgrade is meaningless, right?

 Thanks.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Syu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Let me ask some questions.

 1) When I use ZERO only as DAC, the only working OPAMP is DAC OPAMP, right?

 2) If I use ZERO only as DAC, volume pot upgrade is meaningless, right?

 Thanks._

 

1. Yes are correct.
 2. Volume pot upgrade only helps a little, if u use zero dac to adjust volume in preamp mode.


----------



## Currawong

Madman, have you read the guide in my signature? It should answer your questions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The OPA627's should meet your sound expectations, but a HDAM more so. In my guide, I've posted pics of both versions you commonly find of the OPA627, the DIP version which is socketed, and the SOIC which is smaller and soldered. The latter are soldered to the top and bottom of the adaptor, which is why you often only see one, not two in the pictures.


----------



## tedSmith123

Hi guys,

 Hope someone can help me here. I had the OPA-Earth install for nearly 2 months now. Suddenly I heard a pop on the right channel and now I've lost sound on the right channel altogether. I've switched back to the OPA627 and the Zero is fine, which means that it is the Earth. 
 Has anyone experience any problem like this on the OPA-Earth ? Is there a warranty ? What should I go about to getting it fixed ? My soldering skill is not very good, but I wouldn't mind getting my hands dirty trying to fix this if only someone can show me the way. 

 I must add that I haven't been using it that much, probably about 100 hours at most in total. 

 Thanks.


----------



## oofie810

Ok guys, I need help. It looks like my mkIII will be arriving today (hopefully) which I was expecting to be delivered next week. Anyway, I just got my Zero yesterday and already logged in about 15 hours in it. 

 Question is, how do I burn-in the Zero completely (amp and dac) if I use it as a pre-amp to my mkIII? Of course I'd like to use my mkIII right away and I also would like the Zero's amp to burn in. How do I do this?


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tedSmith123* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys,

 Hope someone can help me here. I had the OPA-Earth install for nearly 2 months now. Suddenly I heard a pop on the right channel and now I've lost sound on the right channel altogether. I've switched back to the OPA627 and the Zero is fine, which means that it is the Earth. 
 Has anyone experience any problem like this on the OPA-Earth ? Is there a warranty ? What should I go about to getting it fixed ? My soldering skill is not very good, but I wouldn't mind getting my hands dirty trying to fix this if only someone can show me the way. 

 I must add that I haven't been using it that much, probably about 100 hours at most in total. 

 Thanks._

 

the OPA will normally last very long, due to discrete components. Perhaps are u using the extension wire, is the extension leads broken? pls try to connect directly.


----------



## MasZakrY

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oofie810* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok guys, I need help. It looks like my mkIII will be arriving today (hopefully) which I was expecting to be delivered next week. Anyway, I just got my Zero yesterday and already logged in about 15 hours in it. 

 Question is, how do I burn-in the Zero completely (amp and dac) if I use it as a pre-amp to my mkIII? Of course I'd like to use my mkIII right away and I also would like the Zero's amp to burn in. How do I do this?_

 

Just keep using the Zero. There are differing opinions about what is considered completely "broken in" but by 100 hours everything should be settled.


----------



## Syu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_1. Yes are correct.
 2. Volume pot upgrade only helps a little, if u use zero dac to adjust volume in preamp mode._

 

Thanks for your help. Volume pot is inactive in simple DAC mode, right?

 Btw I have another question, isn't HDAM for DAC + OPA627s for HP/Pre so good? I think OPA627s are generally better than LT1364 at least for DIY AMP...


----------



## MadMan007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Madman, have you read the guide in my signature? It should answer your questions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The OPA627's should meet your sound expectations, but a HDAM more so. In my guide, I've posted pics of both versions you commonly find of the OPA627, the DIP version which is socketed, and the SOIC which is smaller and soldered. The latter are soldered to the top and bottom of the adaptor, which is why you often only see one, not two in the pictures._

 

Thanks for the guide and link.

 Last question since I don't think it's clearly stated anywhere 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For the upgraded volume pot it's said to get it from 'Lawrence' and his contact info is posted in your guide. I can email him too but if he has regular postings on ebay what's his username? More important, is he the only one replacing the volume pot, the 'upgrade version' from other sellers is only opamp upgrade?


----------



## MasZakrY

Has anyone tried to install the ALPS pot from Kingwa @ GD? How does this pot compare to the one Lawrence is selling, does it fit?


----------



## MadMan007

Yea I meant to ask about the pot if we know the part number or if there are other good alternatives that might be easier to find?

 Also has anyone considered adding a switchable second RCA output? It seems like it should be a simple thing to add but maybe there would need to be additoinal protection circuits.


----------



## | Scorpio |

I'm ordering a Zero from Lawrence next week, and I have one little concern. I want to use my Zero mostly with my computer, and it looks like the only way I can really do that is getting a new sound card with an optical out, or getting one of these. Would that converter degrade the quality at all, or is it fine to use?


----------



## MasZakrY

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *| Scorpio |* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm ordering a Zero from Lawrence next week, and I have one little concern. I want to use my Zero mostly with my computer, and it looks like the only way I can really do that is getting a new sound card with an optical out, or getting one of these. Would that converter degrade the quality at all, or is it fine to use?_

 

That is the exact one Lawrence includes. It is bit perfect and imho has no discernible sq difference from a discrete pci soundcard.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *| Scorpio |* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm ordering a Zero from Lawrence next week, and I have one little concern. I want to use my Zero mostly with my computer, and it looks like the only way I can really do that is getting a new sound card with an optical out, or getting one of these. Would that converter degrade the quality at all, or is it fine to use?_

 

It should be fine, the only thing you'd be missing (I think) would be hi-res audio for things like DVD_audio or hi-res vinyl rips (24-bit 96khz) - I don't think those usb-optical (or at least that particular one) goes higher than 48khz. So if you don't have or plan to get any hi-res stuff, youll be fine. Personally I have a decent amount of DVD-A and SACD discs (plus I like to play games) so I went for an audio card. But for CD quality audio , mp3s, DVDs (regular DVDs not DVD-A) etc you'll be just fine. I'm pretty sure some sellers sell the Zero with one of those adapters already included... just not sure who.


----------



## | Scorpio |

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MasZakrY* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That is the exact one Lawrence includes. It is bit perfect and imho has no discernible sq difference from a discrete pci soundcard._

 

Lawrence includes one? Great! Do I need to ask him to ship one with my zero or will he just include it anyways?


----------



## | Scorpio |

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It should be fine, the only thing you'd be missing (I think) would be hi-res audio for things like DVD_audio or hi-res vinyl rips (24-bit 96khz) - I don't think those usb-optical (or at least that particular one) goes higher than 48khz. So if you don't have or plan to get any hi-res stuff, youll be fine. Personally I have a decent amount of DVD-A and SACD discs (plus I like to play games) so I went for an audio card. But for CD quality audio , mp3s, DVDs (regular DVDs not DVD-A) etc you'll be just fine. I'm pretty sure some sellers sell the Zero with one of those adapters already included... just not sure who._

 

I'll just be using my zero with MP3s and CDs as far as I know. Thanks for the help!


----------



## MasZakrY

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *| Scorpio |* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lawrence includes one? Great! Do I need to ask him to ship one with my zero or will he just include it anyways?_

 

ZERO 24/192 DAC DA CONVERTOR, HEAD AMP(Upgrade Version) - eBay (item 110292715594 end time Oct-24-08 10:32:06 PDT)

 Thats the exact auction you need to buy.


----------



## MadMan007

Thanks that's exactly what I needed to know as well. I'm going to get the 'free shipping' one (same total cost) though to get more off with an eBay coupon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Does the 'upgrade' refer to the opamps only or is that also with the better volume pot?


----------



## | Scorpio |

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MasZakrY* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ZERO 24/192 DAC DA CONVERTOR, HEAD AMP(Upgrade Version) - eBay (item 110292715594 end time Oct-24-08 10:32:06 PDT)

 Thats the exact auction you need to buy._

 

That version doesn't have all of the upgrades that Lawrence includes. At least, that's what I was told a couple of pages back by Pete.


----------



## MasZakrY

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *| Scorpio |* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That version doesn't have all of the upgrades that Lawrence includes. At least, that's what I was told a couple of pages back by Pete._

 

Shoot Lawrence an email regarding what upgrades you would like to the unit (I'm guessing included HDAM and ALPS pot?) As I stated before, mine did not come with the correct headphone opamps.


----------



## MadMan007

Sorry if this was answered but just to be clear, is that seller 'wsz0304'/'shenzhen audio store' Lawrence?


----------



## | Scorpio |

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MasZakrY* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Shoot Lawrence an email regarding what upgrades you would like to the unit (I'm guessing included HDAM and ALPS pot?) As I stated before, mine did not come with the correct headphone opamps._

 

If I get that version that you recommended, there isn't really anyway I can get the upgraded volume pot, is there? Would it really even make that large of a difference?


----------



## MasZakrY

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *| Scorpio |* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I get that version that you recommended, there isn't really anyway I can get the upgraded volume pot, is there? Would it really even make that large of a difference?_

 

I'm sure people have differing opinions about the pot but again, imho the stock pot does not crackle *at all *for me and has exact volume levels for left and right channels.


----------



## Nedman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MadMan007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry if this was answered but just to be clear, is that seller 'wsz0304'/'shenzhen audio store' Lawrence?_

 

No different seller, 

 I got mine off shenzhen audio store and haven't had any problems with it.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oofie810* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok guys, I need help. It looks like my mkIII will be arriving today (hopefully) which I was expecting to be delivered next week. Anyway, I just got my Zero yesterday and already logged in about 15 hours in it. 

 Question is, how do I burn-in the Zero completely (amp and dac) if I use it as a pre-amp to my mkIII? Of course I'd like to use my mkIII right away and I also would like the Zero's amp to burn in. How do I do this?_

 

Oof,

 Just use it as a line level device to feed the MK III. No need to engage the H/Amp Preamp function at all. It's most desirable SQ wise to feed the MK III just the fixed level dac output...you'll be able to test this of course...just be sure you have both volume controls turned all the way down if you should try this. Re-amping the signal by engaging the Zero's preamp function isn't the best way to go...it degrades the signal for the most part. 

 Simplicity of the signal chain should be a guiding principle when it comes to anything audio related IMHO.

 I'd suggest keeping the Zero as DAC when you want to listen to the MK III and use the Zero's H/Amp when you don't want to listen to the MK III....

 Peete.


----------



## oofie810

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oof,

 Just use it as a line level device to feed the MK III. No need to engage the H/Amp Preamp function at all. It's most desirable SQ wise to feed the MK III just the fixed level dac output...you'll be able to test this of course...just be sure you have both volume controls turned all the way down if you should try this. Re-amping the signal by engaging the Zero's preamp function isn't the best way to go...it degrades the signal for the most part. 

 Simplicity of the signal chain should be a guiding principle when it comes to anything audio related IMHO.

 I'd suggest keeping the Zero as DAC when you want to listen to the MK III and use the Zero's H/Amp when you don't want to listen to the MK III....

 Peete._

 

Peete, 

 I'm kinda confused about the line level feed and using the pre-amp. Are they different? I'm kinda new to DACs/preamps, only had a portable amp from the start so I'm not sure about the preamp stuff. So when I have my mkIII connected via RCA to the Zero, I should have the green light turned off on the Zero (preamp/phone led), right? Thanks.

 Ron


----------



## viscosity

double post


----------



## viscosity

i thought preamp mode was when it was unlit and not utilizing the headamp







 thats the way I would do it.. I no longer have the headamp circuit in my zero as i will be using the darkvoice336i and when I press the preamp button to have it lit green I get no signal


----------



## MadMan007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nedman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No different seller, 

 I got mine off shenzhen audio store and haven't had any problems with it._

 

Thanks. Yea I figure I'll worry about the voume pot later if at all. I will primarily use it as a line-level DAC and use the pre-amp in my integrated amp.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *viscosity* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i thought preamp mode was when it was unlit and not utilizing the headamp






 thats the way I would do it.. I no longer have the headamp circuit in my zero as i will be using the darkvoice336i and when I press the preamp button to have it lit green I get no signal_

 

I kept getting confused on this too, I don't have one yet though, Read the additional notes on the first post or the guide in Currawong's signature. I think I've got it now though: 
 --When the Phone LED is out it acts as a straight DAC with no preamp function and would be appropriate as a line-level source like any other. The sound signature is based purely upon the DAC opamps and section. I would call this 'source mode.'
 --When the Phones LED is lit by pressing the 'preamp' button it activates the headphone amp section and the unit then does one of two things: 1. If there is no headphone plugged in to the headphone jack the RCA outs are active as normal AND preamped by the headphone section, the Zero's volume control is active for the RCA outs. This would be used for output to an amplifier that has no preamp or volume control of its own. 2. If you plug a headphone in to the headphone jack it deactivates the RCA outputs and acts as a DAC + headphone amp as you would expect. For 1. and 2. both the DAC and headphone section opamps or mods affect the sound signature. I would call this 'preamp mode.'

 The button and light label being different causes confusion.

 Please correct that if it's wrong!


----------



## tedSmith123

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the OPA will normally last very long, due to discrete components. Perhaps are u using the extension wire, is the extension leads broken? pls try to connect directly._

 

I've tried to connect the OPA directly onto the board without using the extension cable and still no right channel. I've emailed Audio-GD and they've asked for a few photos, so I took the Earth out of the zero for quick photo session. At the end of taken those shots, I've decided to give it a last try ( without connecting the ground ) and to my surprise, it came back !! Then I've tried again with the ground as well and it is still working.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am not too sure what happened, could this be relating to a dry solder near the ground wire as I've flexed the wire a few times when I try to sit the OPA on the desk for the photos.

 Anyway, I will see now I go, just wanted to share my experience.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MadMan007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks. Yea I figure I'll worry about the voume pot later if at all. I will primarily use it as a line-level DAC and use the pre-amp in my integrated amp.



 I kept getting confused on this too, I don't have one yet though, Read the additional notes on the first post or the guide in Currawong's signature. I think I've got it now though: 
 --When the Phone LED is out it acts as a straight DAC with no preamp function and would be appropriate as a line-level source like any other. The sound signature is based purely upon the DAC opamps and section. I would call this 'source mode.'
 --When the Phones LED is lit by pressing the 'preamp' button it activates the headphone amp section and the unit then does one of two things: 1. If there is no headphone plugged in to the headphone jack the RCA outs are active as normal AND preamped by the headphone section, the Zero's volume control is active for the RCA outs. This would be used for output to an amplifier that has no preamp or volume control of its own. 2. If you plug a headphone in to the headphone jack it deactivates the RCA outputs and acts as a DAC + headphone amp as you would expect. For 1. and 2. both the DAC and headphone section opamps or mods affect the sound signature. I would call this 'preamp mode.'

 The button and light label being different causes confusion.

 Please correct that if it's wrong!_

 

Sounds pretty good to me, visco, though I'm not sure that using the pre-out (green light) to an ext amp uses the actual head amp electronics in circuit, I doubt it, the signal is too clean. Basically, I think the vol pot just becomes like a passive pot, bypassing the amp when no cans are connected to the Zero, or directed into the input circuit of the amp when they are. The circuit goes through the headphone socket, the cans make or break the circuit to the Zero's amp. Capiche?


----------



## MadMan007

Could be, we'd need someone to inspect it closely or have a ciruit diagram to know. I was basing the statement that it uses the headphone amp as a preamp for RCA out when the light is on upon user's statements that using the unit as a preamp versus a pure line-level DAC changes the sound signature.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MadMan007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Could be, we'd need someone to inspect it closely or have a ciruit diagram to know. I was basing the statement that it uses the headphone amp as a preamp for RCA out when the light is on upon user's statements that using the unit as a preamp versus a pure line-level DAC changes the sound signature._

 

Gotcha point MadMan007, where the sig could be changed is only in the SQ of the pot and the cables that the signal runs through. If the signal went through the electronics, then the pre-out function's sig would change significantly depending on the op-amps used and it doesn't. 
 Some external amps also don't like having a near passive pot on the input, due to mismatch in impedances between the PRE-out of the Zero and the input impedance of the amp. Hence there is a change in the tonal balance with the external amp. 
 On my KHA, you can choose which resistors you need in a part of the input circuit depending on whether you want to use a passive pot or not, but you can't have both. Hope I haven't confused the issue.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MadMan007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Could be, we'd need someone to inspect it closely or have a ciruit diagram to know. I was basing the statement that it uses the headphone amp as a preamp for RCA out when the light is on upon user's statements that using the unit as a preamp versus a pure line-level DAC changes the sound signature._

 

Try this: pull the opamps out of the head/pre-amp section and see if it still works as a preamp.


----------



## MasZakrY

Would there be an issue with the pot that GD provides? The stock pot is 100k compared to 50k for the GA ALPS variety. Also, will this pot even fit, it looks very square and longer.


----------



## bundee1

yeah I thought it would fit too and I was willing to do anything to make it fit but even after I removed the back case of the pot and measured it against the stock pot and it's definitely larger. If anyone wants to post other creative solution I'm sure we'd all appreciate it.


----------



## MadMan007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Try this: pull the opamps out of the head/pre-amp section and see if it still works as a preamp._

 

When I get one I'll try that. Or anyone else here who already has one can try 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 as long as there isn't any chance of damage from running it without opamps.


----------



## Currawong

The pot Lawrence has, someone else posted that it was a NOS Alps pot. I don't know where he gets them from. To fit a standard Alps pot, you'd have to resolder the components in the way of it to the underside of the board, if they'll fit.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

You'd have to relocate the board back about 1 or 2 cm but that would mean getting a different headphone jack and rewire it to the now relocated H/Amp pcb....not to mention drilling and tapping the new mounting holes into the chassis bottom plate for the pcb standoffs. The pin on the front of the 50K AX2 has to be cut off in order to mount flush on the back side of the Zero's face plate.

 All this is far more trouble than it's worth IMO.

 Better just to get the NOS pot from Lawrence. 

 Then again if anyone wants to try it I say go for it.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 My suggested install method is just that a suggestion. 


 Peete.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MadMan007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Could be, we'd need someone to inspect it closely or have a ciruit diagram to know. I was basing the statement that it uses the headphone amp as a preamp for RCA out when the light is on upon user's statements that using the unit as a preamp versus a pure line-level DAC changes the sound signature._

 

Speaking of which:

 Does anyone know if the 4 large black upright heat-sinked devices on the HPA board, to which refer to as "Vregs", are actually voltage regulators?

 I ran the P/N thru Google and it came back as a "Bi-Polar General Purpose Transistor". I realize transistors can be used as Vregs, but now am thinking they actually might be configed as audio output transistors, which is why when we replace the HPA op-amps with op-amps of widely varying output power and current ratings the HPA volume stays roughly the same. This lack-of-change isn't what I would expect to see if the HPA ouput was run directly off the op-amps.

 Well, just some thoughts, anyway.


----------



## bundee1

with regards to Lawrence's alps pots, maybe they're clones? Not to cast aspersions on him because he could be buying them unknowingly but if you search for that pot on eBay you come up with clones. I have also seen large electronics suppliers selling the real one only in bulk. I don't care as long as it's an improvement over the stock pot. I ordered one from lawrence.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Speaking of which:

 Does anyone know if the 4 large black upright heat-sinked devices on the HPA board, to which refer to as "Vregs", are actually voltage regulators?

 I ran the P/N thru Google and it came back as a "Bi-Polar General Purpose Transistor". I realize transistors can be used as Vregs, but now am thinking they actually might be configed as audio output transistors, which is why when we replace the HPA op-amps with op-amps of widely varying output power and current ratings the HPA volume stays roughly the same. This lack-of-change isn't what I would expect to see if the HPA ouput was run directly off the op-amps.

 Well, just some thoughts, anyway._

 


 A simple check with a DMM confirms they are regulating the +15 -15 VDC lines.

 The gain device is the opamps in the H/Amp section.

 I'm trying to track down some modern regs with better specs to replace the old Toshiba's ...I feel some more performance can be gained from the H/Amp section by doing so....although it's just a guess at this point...at least it's a cheap upgrade.

 Peete.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A simple check with a DMM confirms they are regulating the +15 -15 VDC lines.

 The gain device is the opamps in the H/Amp section.

 I'm trying to track down some modern regs with better specs to replace the old Toshiba's ...I feel some more performance can be gained from the H/Amp section by doing so....although it's just a guess at this point...at least it's a cheap upgrade.

 Peete._

 

Very good Peete!

 Yeah, I've come to like the Zero's HPA with the LT1364's, and would love to improve it, as well. Driving K701's from an internal HPA is no easy task, tho. I guess I'll add those hi-current op-amps back to my list of things-to-get and add them back into the "upgrade" line of my sig.

 I wish we had a schematic of this thing. It might be possible to play with the resistors and pot to increase gain. If the op-amp's in inverting mode and the pot's in the feedback loop, simply getting a larger pot would increase gain. No idea what that does to SQ tho. I'm not familiar with audio applications.

 Thanks for checking the Vreg thing out.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

StratCat,

 Have you seen my PS1 mod for the H/Amp in the Zero MOD thread ? It's still a work in progress but the Zero's H/Amp has certainly got some balls now over the stock setup. 

 The stock regs are holding it back IMO in current delivery I'm almost positive of that...once the regs are uprated to to deliver 1A each (I think the stock regs are limited to .5 amp) the story may change considerably for cans of all stripe. Just a hunch at this point....I'll go with LM ot LT low drop out low noise types. I just need to find a vendor for these amongst other parts I need for the moment.The idea is to run 2 HDAMs in it rather than IC opamps.

 I also have a chassis coming from China (slow boat that should be here some time in late Nov or early Dec).....I can complete the FrankenZERO SST at that time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Very good Peete!

 Yeah, I've come to like the Zero's HPA with the LT1364's, and would love to improve it, as well. Driving K701's from an internal HPA is no easy task, tho. I guess I'll add those hi-current op-amps back to my list of things-to-get and add them back into the "upgrade" line of my sig.

 I wish we had a schematic of this thing. It might be possible to play with the resistors and pot to increase gain. If the op-amp's in inverting mode and the pot's in the feedback loop, simply getting a larger pot would increase gain. No idea what that does to SQ tho. I'm not familiar with audio applications.

 Thanks for checking the Vreg thing out._

 

Hi guys, I think you will find that those four trannies on heatsinks are the output transistors. The power supply for the head amp comes from the two regulators on the main board that get so hot. If you unplug the black (3 together) cable from the head amp board that comes from the PS, you will find no power to the amp at all. It is quite common to use power transistors for power supplies and vice versa. KHA has a similar set up, if not identical. 
 The ubiquitous 3055 power transistor is often used as a high power regulator. 
 The op-amps alone don't use anything like the amount of power to make those four trannies so warm if they were regulators. If you pull the black power cable from the amp board you will find the regulators on the main board go almost cold, no load on them. 
 Also, my old 600 ohm Senn 540 Reference cans require far too much power to be able be driven by op-amps alone and I could get plenty of gas out of the Zero's amp when I used them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Well, that's my theory for the day, but I shall pull the amp board later and have a look at the circuit in more detail. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 S-Man


----------



## | Scorpio |

Sorry to keep on coming into this thread with noobish questions, but I'm just about to pull the trigger on my Zero. I know that Lawrence is the only one who offers the volume pot upgrade, but is it really a substantial difference over the default one? It would seem to be so much more convenient to buy from this selller, who includes the USB to Optical converter and an upgraded opamp. I don't want to regret getting the less upgraded version in the future, though, so maybe I should go with Lawrence... Bah, I don't know what to do. Help?


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_StratCat,

 Have you seen my PS1 mod for the H/Amp in the Zero MOD thread ? It's still a work in progress but the Zero's H/Amp has certainly got some balls now over the stock setup. 

 The stock regs are holding it back IMO in current delivery I'm almost positive of that...once the regs are uprated to to deliver 1A each (I think the stock regs are limited to .5 amp) the story may change considerably for cans of all stripe. Just a hunch at this point....I'll go with LM ot LT low drop out low noise types. I just need to find a vendor for these amongst other parts I need for the moment.The idea is to run 2 HDAMs in it rather than IC opamps.

 I also have a chassis coming from China (slow boat that should be here some time in late Nov or early Dec).....I can complete the FrankenZERO SST at that time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete_

 

Hi Peete -

 Yeah, I saw it last week. I replied to a post in one of the DIY threads earlier today. I'm constantly torn between deciding in which thread to post, since this one seems to have a continous life of it's own!

 I think in an ideal world, this thread would stop at anything much more than op-amp/HDAM rolling, seller upgrade options, or simple non-mod cosmetic replacement (vol pot knobs)?

 Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way, IRL, eh? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I hate to see the DIY threads languish. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh...back ontopic: No Newark affiliate north of the 49th Parrallel?


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys, I think you will find that those four trannies on heatsinks are the output transistors. The power supply for the head amp comes from the two regulators on the main board that get so hot. If you unplug the black (3 together) cable from the head amp board that comes from the PS, you will find no power to the amp at all. It is quite common to use power transistors for power supplies and vice versa. KHA has a similar set up, if not identical. 
 The ubiquitous 3055 power transistor is often used as a high power regulator. 
 The op-amps alone don't use anything like the amount of power to make those four trannies so warm if they were regulators. If you pull the black power cable from the amp board you will find the regulators on the main board go almost cold, no load on them. 
 Also, my old 600 ohm Senn 540 Reference cans require far too much power to be able be driven by op-amps alone and I could get plenty of gas out of the Zero's amp when I used them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Well, that's my theory for the day, but I shall pull the amp board later and have a look at the circuit in more detail. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 S-Man_

 

OK -

 That does it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 The ideas are coming fast and furious. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll try to make some time to do the Vpot upgrade ASAP, but it will be Tuesday/Wednesday at the earliest, when I'll pop the HPA board out and try to do some basic sig tracing too, to see what I can add to the confusion. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just for the record: Do we want to continue this discussion here, or should we try to give some life to the DIY threads?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys, I think you will find that those four trannies on heatsinks are the output transistors. The power supply for the head amp comes from the two regulators on the main board that get so hot. If you unplug the black (3 together) cable from the head amp board that comes from the PS, you will find no power to the amp at all. It is quite common to use power transistors for power supplies and vice versa. KHA has a similar set up, if not identical. 
 The ubiquitous 3055 power transistor is often used as a high power regulator. 
 The op-amps alone don't use anything like the amount of power to make those four trannies so warm if they were regulators. If you pull the black power cable from the amp board you will find the regulators on the main board go almost cold, no load on them. 
 Also, my old 600 ohm Senn 540 Reference cans require far too much power to be able be driven by op-amps alone and I could get plenty of gas out of the Zero's amp when I used them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Well, that's my theory for the day, but I shall pull the amp board later and have a look at the circuit in more detail. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 S-Man_

 

Thanks S-Man.......hmmm so upgrading these to better higher rated units in conjunction with the PS1 mod should be the ticket for driving a can like the K701 with what it wants...more current ......

 Interesting...worth a shot...now all I need is K701's and 4 parts 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks S-Man.......hmmm so upgrading these to better higher rated units in conjunction with the PS1 mod should be the ticket for driving a can like the K701 with what it wants...more current ......

 Interesting...worth a shot...now all I need is K701's and 4 parts 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

There's something disheartening about knowing your fav cans in your fleet have a rep being the standard bearer for stressing the current capability of HPA's...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I vote for the MOD thread but I'm biased 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## bundee1

I think anything with the risk of electric shock or burning should be in the mod thread. 

 This thread should be about sound reviews, simple plug and play mods, and vendor reliability issues.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Sounds good to me bundee1 !!!

 Peete.


----------



## bundee1

Then again I also like the way this thread updates regularly and dividing the threads might stifle creativity and spontaneous idea posting.


----------



## MasZakrY

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *| Scorpio |* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry to keep on coming into this thread with noobish questions, but I'm just about to pull the trigger on my Zero. I know that Lawrence is the only one who offers the volume pot upgrade, but is it really a substantial difference over the default one? It would seem to be so much more convenient to buy from this selller, who includes the USB to Optical converter and an upgraded opamp. I don't want to regret getting the less upgraded version in the future, though, so maybe I should go with Lawrence... Bah, I don't know what to do. Help? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

"That" seller is Lawrence... If you require the usb to optical converter, that is your best buy. Otherwise, get the vanilla version and upgrade the OPAMP's yourself.

 EDIT: apparently he is not


----------



## MadMan007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MasZakrY* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_"That" seller is Lawrence... If you require the usb to optical converter, that is your best buy. Otherwise, get the vanilla version and upgrade the OPAMP's yourself._

 

Really? Because I asked the exact same thing within the last two pages and was specifically told that seller is not the famous Lawrence. Maybe Lawrence is part of that business but messages from that seller on eBay are signed 'wang shu zeng'


----------



## DaMnEd

*wsz0304* is _*not*_ Lawrence

 Lawrence username on ebay is *biglawhk*


----------



## Pricklely Peete

LOL....oops...

 Peete.


----------



## Penchum

OMG!!! PP is about to become a "Headphoneus Supremus" soon! We should have a Zero party when it happens!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

LOL........Pench....the only thing supremus about me is my ability to clear a room after eating curry beef for lunch 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*wsz0304* is *not* Lawrence

 Lawrence username on ebay is *biglawhk*_

 

MadMan007 - 

 The above quoted info is accurate.

 FWIW, the other guy wsz0304 has a good rep too, tho.


----------



## MadMan007

Yea I've got no problem just getting the basic opamp upgrade. You still have to pay additioanl for the volume pot and HDAMs...and getting them right off the bat means no fun tweaks later


----------



## | Scorpio |

Well I think I'll be ordering from wsz0304 tonight or tomorrow. How long does the shipping usually take for the Zero? I've heard that it's around 10 days.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Depends if he has any stock on hand.....scorpio...ask if he has any in stock....


 Peete.


----------



## | Scorpio |

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Depends if he has any stock on hand.....scorpio...ask if he has any in stock....


 Peete._

 

It says that he has 86 in stock(I'm ordering from this seller, not Lawrence).


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think anything with the risk of electric shock or burning should be in the mod thread. 

 This thread should be about sound reviews, simple plug and play mods, and vendor reliability issues._

 

HAHA! You should have seen (AND smelt!) my spare pre-amp the other night when a PS diode was put back the wrong way! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh I followed the instructions all, but the silkscreening was wrong for that particular diode and when you do something like that when you're tired ..... POOOFF! Heh heh. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 So, the other thread is for the ****-ups, eh? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 S-Man


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL........Pench....the only thing supremus about me is my ability to clear a room after eating curry beef for lunch 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

HAH! So we'll steer clear of the curry when I visit one day! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Unless I join you, love a fine cabernet with a beef curry! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 S-Man


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *| Scorpio |* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It says that he has 86 in stock(I'm ordering from this seller, not Lawrence)._

 

Go for it then...10 days at most I would imagine with the norm being around 5 business days.

 Peete.


 PS Sure thing S-Man your welcome anytime !!!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Check your tracking number S-Man...the FrankenZERO kit is almost at your house 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Hopefully a couple more days and you have it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The diode silkscreen marks are all correct on the Zero's PCB 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Check your tracking number S-Man...the FrankenZERO kit is almost at your house 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hopefully a couple more days and you have it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The diode silkscreen marks are all correct on the Zero's PCB 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Yippee! And while I'm at one courier depot shortly, I will stop off at the other one nearby and see if there's a little prezzie for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Nearly play time. S-Man


----------



## bundee1

Quote:


 Well I think I'll be ordering from wsz0304 tonight or tomorrow. How long does the shipping usually take for the Zero? I've heard that it's around 10 days. 
 

Yeah its about 7-10 days although since it comes in from a west coast port you might get yours faster. I got mine from WSZ0304 and he kept me informed throughout the process.


----------



## bundee1

Whats involved in swapping out the RCA jacks? I got some free CMC ones from Audio-GD and I was thinking about doing it, then soldering the HDAM ground, then doing the volume pot mod.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MadMan007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yea I've got no problem just getting the basic opamp upgrade. You still have to pay additioanl for the volume pot and HDAMs...and getting them right off the bat means no fun tweaks later 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

True! You can't appreciate a HDAM until you've been listening before and after.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Whats involved in swapping out the RCA jacks? I got some free CMC ones from Audio-GD and I was thinking about doing it, then soldering the HDAM ground, then doing the volume pot mod._

 

Last I looked, basically pulling out the DAC board which involves unplugging it from the head/pre amp and transformer then unscrewing it from the case.


----------



## Transcendent

I've recently purchased this dac, and my unit seems to have a problem with the left channel. The left channel is very muted, but the right one is fine. This problem is present in both the headphone jack and the RCA out. Also when I plug my headphones into the headphone jack, turning the volume causes a muffled scratching sound in the left channel.

 What do you guys think I should do? Should I return to the seller and ask for a replacement?


----------



## liquid steel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Transcendent* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've recently purchased this dac, and my unit seems to have a problem with the left channel. The left channel is very muted, but the right one is fine. This problem is present in both the headphone jack and the RCA out. Also when I plug my headphones into the headphone jack, turning the volume causes a muffled scratching sound in the left channel.

 What do you guys think I should do? Should I return to the seller and ask for a replacement?_

 

This same thing happened to me when I got mine from Lawrence. It seems to have happened to a few others as well.

 What happened was that the DAC opamp was put in backwards, causing it to essentially burn up. Poke around in yours and see if that was done. What I did to verify it was pop one of the headamp opamps into the dac section briefly, just to check... it worked perfectly fine. 

 I ended up ordering some OPA627's off ebay to expedite the process, because Lawrence wanted me to ship mine back first.

 Hope that helps!


----------



## bundee1

Its strange that its affecting your RCA. According to other posts in this thread, it might be a poorly seated Opamp. Try and pull it out and put it back firmly. Make sure those half moon indents are lined up one on top of the other or else youll short out the opamp.


----------



## | Scorpio |

I got mine ordered! I look forward to being a member of Team Zero


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *| Scorpio |* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got mine ordered! I look forward to being a member of Team Zero 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Good on ya, Scorpio, all being well you're going to have a wonderful time, especially if you don't mind the teeniest bit of DIY. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Welcome to Team Zero! S-Man


----------



## Transcendent

Hmm, I've reseated the Opamp in the right direction (crescent facing the rear of the unit), but the problem still persists. Any other suggestions as to what the cause could be?


----------



## MadMan007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Transcendent* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm, I've reseated the Opamp in the right direction (crescent facing the rear of the unit), but the problem still persists. Any other suggestions as to what the cause could be?_

 

Well, was it in backwards to start? If so it may already be damaged.


----------



## AZNracerx1989

Is the Zero as good of a preamp output as a headphone amp? The HDAM and opamp mods wont affect the preamp output in any way right?


----------



## viscosity

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AZNracerx1989* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the Zero as good of a preamp output as a headphone amp? The HDAM and opamp mods wont affect the preamp output in any way right?_

 

its a better dac then a headphone amp. and the HDAM and opamp mods will affect preamp output (granted your speaking of the DAC hdam swap). in a good way though..


----------



## viscosity

btw the zero handles 192000 kHz very well... been experimenting with SRC resampler using foobar2k, and despite what purists say, it sounds very nice. in a word, smoother


----------



## Transcendent

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MadMan007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, was it in backwards to start? If so it may already be damaged._

 

The Opamp wasn't backwards, but I'm certain it wasn't completely seated properly prior my readjustment. Is my best option to order a new opamp then?


----------



## AZNracerx1989

Has anyone seen this? CD DAC Lampucera lampizator It looks really interesting.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Transcendent* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Opamp wasn't backwards, but I'm certain it wasn't completely seated properly prior my readjustment. Is my best option to order a new opamp then?_

 

Hiya Trans, if the op-amp is damaged, I would be tempted (highly!) to forget about it and go straight for an OPA Earth HDAM, it doesn't really get any better than that in there. Just order one from audio-gd and you'll have a cracking good DAC! I don't think you will find much argument about that anywhere in this thread. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 By all means though, find another op-amp, the OPA627AU (they come soldered onto an adapter) or OPA627BP's on a Brown Dog adapter are regarded pretty much as tops in that position and they just plug straight in to the op-amp socket. There's loads of info in this thread about them. The OPA627's are single devices and you will need two of them to replace the dual 2604 that would have come with your DAC. 
 However, the Earth HDAM will take you right to the top. They are available from here: http://www.audio-gd.com/En%20audio-gd.htm or you can go straight to Kingwa and order from him, he's the big cheese there. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



audio-gd@126.com
 S-Man


----------



## ccschua

I was busy with the shigaclone cd player and then the usb to spdif converter.

 I spend the sunday night trying to upsample, secret rabbit code, pphs.etc. until I gave up. Reason is I used the wrong USB/spdif converter. This converter results in 500ps jitter. omg.

http://www.ha-info.com/spdif102.htm

 Now I am back with this potential USB/spdif converter hopefully soon from kingwa. the audiophile grade spdif with 20 ps jitter only.


----------



## Olev

Any more information about that kingwa spdif converter? Where to buy, what does it cost etc ...


----------



## seaice

Hi, just several words from my burn-in period with HDAMs. 

 My Earth has 60+ hours, Moon 50+ and Sun v2 only 6+ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Today I found next good synergy candidate: Zero with Sun v2 in DAC > MAC AgQ IC > LD MKV > AKG K701

 I didnt expect the AKG K701 to match with the Sun HDAM, but it is perfect. What impressed me most is the soundstage. I really start to love my AKG more and more. After several years with Senns (580 and 650) I really start to convert to AKG K701. With Earth and Sun v2 in Zero and LD MKV as HA, the AKG sounds so clean with impressive sounstage, dynamics and details never heard with any Sennheiser, very unexpected way from Senn-darkness. The Sun v2 with K701 is a great surprise for me


----------



## tubes

How would the headphone section of the zero compare with somthing like a Creek OBH-11. Thanks

 Phill


----------



## viscosity

for anyone looking to try some good resamplers for foobar.. check out SSRC 
foobar2000ç”¨ SSRCãƒ—ãƒ©ã‚°ã‚¤ãƒ³ - ãŠãŸã¡ã‚ƒã‚“ã®MIDI/Audioã‚½ãƒ•ãƒˆ

 or try SRC but I was having issues with it getting 192000 kHz using FLAC files
Secret Rabbit Code Resampler for Foobar2000.


----------



## Deftoned

Quote:


 Any more information about that kingwa spdif converter? Where to buy, what does it cost etc ... 
 

I am also curious about this..


----------



## ccschua

This will take time, it uses DSP for reprogramming. the difficulty is to achieve breakthrough in USB->spdif conversion. Current technology offers are quite limited.


----------



## Deftoned

I e-mailed them to ask at HA. But right after I did that I saw that the converter is now available through audiophilechina. 40$, about the same cost as a USB-TOSlink shipped separately. Is there any reason to prefer Coax over TOSlink?

  Quote:


 This will take time, it uses DSP for reprogramming. the difficulty is to achieve breakthrough in USB->spdif conversion. Current technology offers are quite limited. 
 

Does this mean that it is better to go with optical? Thank you for sharing your findings.


----------



## MasZakrY

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Deftoned* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I e-mailed them to ask at HA. But right after I did that I saw that the converter is now available through audiophilechina. 40$, about the same cost as a USB-TOSlink shipped separately. Is there any reason to prefer Coax over TOSlink?



 Does this mean that it is better to go with optical? Thank you for sharing your findings._

 

Its been stated here that Zero owners prefer the sound of COAX to optical.


----------



## evu325

As a DAC alone is the upgrade version any better than the regular one? Sorry if this has been asked already.


----------



## viscosity

^^^ id say get the stock version and just get one of the hdams from audio-gd if your just using it as a DAC. simple opamp swap and you'll get some sweet sounds for minimal cash


----------



## khaller

Hi, everyone! I have just ordered an 'upgraded' Zero, my first amp. It's coming with a dual-OPA627 for the DAC, but I have no idea what opamps will drive the preamp/headphone section. Any ideas? The link is:

ZERO 24/192 DAC DA CONVERTOR, HEAD AMP(Upgrade Version) - eBay (item 110287182130 end time Nov-15-08 13:00:00 PST)

 Also, I'm considering getting an HDAM as well, but can't seem to narrow it down based on research. If I were to choose one of either the Moon or the Earth, which should I order first and why? (I'll be using this with either a DT880 or HD600, or both.)


----------



## Deftoned

Thank you MasZakrY!

 If I order the standard version, only with pot upgrade. Am I then required to solder the HDAMs to ground, if I get one later on?

 I also think that some of the OPA627 I've seen look a bit curious. Are they knock-offs maybe? I think then I'd rather source them myself.

 I checked out the possibility of ordering samples of the LT1364 but there seemed to be several different versions, which is the correct one?


----------



## viscosity

OPA-Earth has generally been preferred around here for its neutrality. OPA-Moon is a bit new, people are still trying them out but the impressions seem very positive.

 you don't need to solder a ground for the Hdam, although some would argue that you solder it to the RCA ground.. but in doing so I didn't notice any signifigant differences in sq


----------



## seaice

After a short period of testing I would prefer Earth over Moon. Both are good, but Earth is a bit more neutral and universal for more headphones - good match for Senn 580/600/650 and AKG701. I am not sure about synergy Moon - AKG701 yet. All can however change a little over time with the burn-in process etc. But other ears - other cheers, I would recommend to try them both and choose to your taste


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *khaller* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, everyone! I have just ordered an 'upgraded' Zero, my first amp. It's coming with a dual-OPA627 for the DAC, but I have no idea what opamps will drive the preamp/headphone section. Any ideas? The link is:

ZERO 24/192 DAC DA CONVERTOR, HEAD AMP(Upgrade Version) - eBay (item 110287182130 end time Nov-15-08 13:00:00 PST)

 Also, I'm considering getting an HDAM as well, but can't seem to narrow it down based on research. If I were to choose one of either the Moon or the Earth, which should I order first and why? (I'll be using this with either a DT880 or HD600, or both.) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I have ordered from this guy before, the stock LT's are in the headphone section


----------



## MasZakrY

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Deftoned* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you MasZakrY!

 If I order the standard version, only with pot upgrade. Am I then required to solder the HDAMs to ground, if I get one later on?

 I also think that some of the OPA627 I've seen look a bit curious. Are they knock-offs maybe? I think then I'd rather source them myself.

 I checked out the possibility of ordering samples of the LT1364 but there seemed to be several different versions, which is the correct one?_

 

I *think* they are knockoffs. They do not have Burr Brown's stamp nor the same white silk screening. I ordered from that exact seller, wsz0304 very recently, and did NOT get LT1364's (got NE5532P instead 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) so you should order them right now before your Zero arrives. The standard version + GD Earth HDAM and free LT1364CN8#PBF <-- yes that is the exact one you want, and is the way to go for sure. Has anyone here had to pay for shipping on their Linear samples order? If so there is a very easy way to make sure you don't have to pay for shipping 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 PM me.


----------



## Enthusia

I just sold my Zero Dac modded with OS-Cons and an alps pot.... I'll surely miss it!


----------



## bundee1

Why?

 Jessica Alba sure has a purdy smile.


----------



## boozcool

How does the Zero compare to the KECES DA-151?


----------



## Enthusia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why?

 Jessica Alba sure has a purdy smile._

 

Too busy with school and it was taking up my desk space for homework LOL. But if I were to get one again, I would definitely change those capacitors again and everything. A fun experience I'd say.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boozcool* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How does the Zero compare to the KECES DA-151?_

 

The 151 is USB, the Zero is not. 

 It would be interesting to compare them including some opamp rolling. If the opamp in the Keces is socketed, you could put a HDAM in place of it and whichever you bought, you'd have a great DAC.


----------



## MadMan007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This will take time, it uses DSP for reprogramming. the difficulty is to achieve breakthrough in USB->spdif conversion. Current technology offers are quite limited._

 

Oh yea? So USB-spdif conversion isn't that great huh. How good (or bad) is the Xitel DG2 that is often included with the Zero?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MasZakrY* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Its been stated here that Zero owners prefer the sound of COAX to optical._

 

Again...oh yea? Should I try both and see or just go for coax? I don't have any digital coax cables and only basic (ie: cheapies that come with equipment) opticals. If I actually pay for an optical I'd get a nice glass fiber one, what's a good coax though?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MasZakrY* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I *think* they are knockoffs. They do not have Burr Brown's stamp nor the same white silk screening. I ordered from that exact seller, wsz0304 very recently, and did NOT get LT1364's (got NE5532P instead 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) so you should order them right now before your Zero arrives. The standard version + GD Earth HDAM and free LT1364CN8#PBF <-- yes that is the exact one you want, and is the way to go for sure. Has anyone here had to pay for shipping on their Linear samples order? If so there is a very easy way to make sure you don't have to pay for shipping 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 PM me._

 

To be fair the headphone section opamp isn't specified and that is the type noted in the first posts in this thread. I know how to get samples from LT, should I just do that now instead of waiting to see what comes with mine?


----------



## bundee1

yes request them now as they take about a week to arrive. You'll get impatient waiting after the zero arrives.


----------



## Currawong

An interesting source of Toslink cables someone linked to here. I'm using a Van Den Hul Optocoupler as I got it ex-demo and it has a proper mini-plug connector for my MacBook Pro. I'm curious about what's at that link though.


----------



## MadMan007

You should email them and see if their Toslink cables are glass fiber. Whlie it's implied that's all they make it's not clearly stated for the cables and you can never be sure or too careful.

 I'll get some of the LT's on the way. Are they generally regarded as the best HA opamps? I prefer neutral with little to no coloration, maybe a little bit of taking off any digital edge at most. The whole super-indepth opamp section of this thread starts where I trailed off reading.


----------



## mz5

hi all, i am new here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i have some questions about the Zero.

 which of the cables are sound signal ? i found 8 of them connecting the pre-amp and the HP-amp and i would like to replace with better cables. 

 has any of you been doing that ? any good ?



 ps: it's real hard to read back all that 700+ pages for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MadMan007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You should email them and see if their Toslink cables are glass fiber. Whlie it's implied that's all they make it's not clearly stated for the cables and you can never be sure or too careful._

 

If you read their site, they are plastic of a kind that is supposedly better than glass. Since they are cheap, if they ship outside the USA, I'll order a mini->Toslink and compare it to the Optocoupler. At least I wont have to worry about burn-in to confirm. I don't expect any difference though.

  Quote:


 I'll get some of the LT's on the way. Are they generally regarded as the best HA opamps? I prefer neutral with little to no coloration, maybe a little bit of taking off any digital edge at most. The whole super-indepth opamp section of this thread starts where I trailed off reading. 
 

They seem to be the most neutral. I'd place them on the analytical side of things, having just stuck mine in my LD MKV experimentally.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mz5* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi all, i am new here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 i have some questions about the Zero.

 which of the cables are sound signal ? i found 8 of them connecting the pre-amp and the HP-amp and i would like to replace with better cables. 

 has any of you been doing that ? any good ?_

 

Personally, I wouldn't bother. The HP amp isn't good enough to be worth it. But if you want to experiment, the 3-pin connector is power. The other two connectors are the left and right channels. Replacing the 3 RCA sockets would be more effective probably. If you do replace the cables, let us know what the result is.


----------



## mz5

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Personally, I wouldn't bother. The HP amp isn't good enough to be worth it. But if you want to experiment, the 3-pin connector is power. The other two connectors are the left and right channels. Replacing the 3 RCA sockets would be more effective probably. If you do replace the cables, let us know what the result is._

 

hi Currawong

 i have replaced the internal power supply for HP-amp with Precision Regulator found at Precision +/-15V regulator for pre-amp or headphone amp and i can feel the power 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but for the signal part, i see 4 pins each on the other 2 connectors and not sure which is which. if all 4 pins are use then kimber hero would do the job.

 Thanks

 ps: most of the caps and diodes have been replace as well, recable would be my last mod for the Zero


----------



## MadMan007

That's not even a Zero any more, you need to call it a Zero.1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I must be missing out on how you're using that regulator board in the alst two pictures though.

 Besides the LT1364 what other sample opamps should I try for different sound signatures? Either for the HA or DAC section...please specifiy which though.


----------



## Currawong

Holy crap, that is definitely a franken-zero. You should post about it in the Zero mod thread in DIY.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Holy crap, that is definitely a franken-zero. You should post about it in the Zero mod thread in DIY._

 

He's out Franken'd my Franken 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Slightly more insane level of modding than mine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




......right on MZ5....what caps are under the wrap/tape around the dac chip ( 4 x 100uf 25V stock caps for ?).

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

MZ5 since you've gone to this far you need to upgrade the jacks (R/L analog outs and wire, Coax in and wire) Grab a decent mains cable too....those mods really help the overall refinement level.

 Really nice job on the parts selection. What diodes are those ?

 Peete.

 EDIT : I'm so tired I'm typing my name twice.....


----------



## mz5

madman : for the PSU, i disconnect the stock power cable then solder my under the board and wire it to the back of the case, drill the case and install the connector. check my 1st photo on the top right conner you will see a yellow connector.

 Peete : that 4 caps are SilmicII 220u. nothing under the tape. and i bypass all the caps with tantalum 0.1u. RCA and Coax will replace after i've got the part. right now i'm not using it. the diode are Ultra fast type and bypass with 0.1u wima

 still wanna replace the signal cables. who know which is which. Thanks

 may be i should go and start posting in DIY. sound like i'm off topic here.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Thanks for that info MZ5.........I would think just marking the pairs of four and making up your new wire bundles would be fairly easy...follow a similar color scheme of have one of your own just make note of how each 4 lead con is laid out...and copy it one 4 lead section at a time.

 Parts are always either a click away or in the mail with me too.....

 Interesting you went with Silmic II's...in the Frankie kit I went with 100uf 25V Silmic II's as well (smaller uf size, even at 100uf they are fairly big) bypassed with the K42Y-2 PIO's.

 How does it sound to you so far ?

 You should do a write up of the sound quality in the Zero mod thread MZ5...I'm sure lots of people would be interested in your thoughts on that. Me included. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## mz5

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for that info MZ5.........I would think just marking the pairs of four and making up your new wire bundles would be fairly easy...follow a similar color scheme of have one of your own just make note of how each 4 lead con is laid out...and copy it one 4 lead section at a time.

 Parts are always either a click away or in the mail with me too.....

 Interesting you went with Silmic II's...in the Frankie kit I went with 100uf 25V Silmic II's as well (smaller uf size, even at 100uf they are fairly big) bypassed with the K42Y-2 PIO's.

 How does it sound to you so far ?

 You should do a write up of the sound quality in the Zero mod thread MZ5...I'm sure lots of people would be interested in your thoughts on that. Me included. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 


 Yah Peete, most of my caps are SilmicII except for the one i can not find with SilmicII. that russian PIO are hardly found here (in Thailand) and VitaminQ too expensive for this job. 

 for the sound ? ....... it's good and i like it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i don't remember how stock Zero sounded any more so can not compare. the sound getting wider and wider. hi start shining ,low are real good and deep and attact 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 b4 that i replace 47u stock silmicII with VitaminQ 0.47u ,the bass was reduce so i have to bi-cap them 2.

 This Sat we will have some meeting and i will bring my Zero to the meeting. we might have some battle for it. and i will report to all of you AZAP.

 Thanks


----------



## syg

I just received my Zero and am getting some noise issues (everything's stock). There is a buzzing sound on both channels from 9 o'clock to 3 o'clock on the volume dial. I tried using an adapter that I bought in Japan that takes a 3-pronged grounded connection and turns it into a 2-pronged one to get rid of the ground, but the noise remains. What might be causing this, how do I diagnose it? Oddly the noise gets SOFTER if I crank the knob all the way to the right. It is loudest at 12 o'clock.

 Edit: Unrelated question, coaxial doesn't work for 24bit/192KHz, yet optical does. I have no idea why, maybe something's wrong with my sound card?


----------



## nor_spoon

Impressive dedication and modding of the Zero! Wow.


----------



## ScottieB

Just got my OPA Moon and am about to pop it in the DAC section (I don't use the HeadAmp much) - will let you know my impressions after some burn-in.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *syg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just received my Zero and am getting some noise issues (everything's stock). There is a buzzing sound on both channels from 9 o'clock to 3 o'clock on the volume dial. I tried using an adapter that I bought in Japan that takes a 3-pronged grounded connection and turns it into a 2-pronged one to get rid of the ground, but the noise remains. What might be causing this, how do I diagnose it? Oddly the noise gets SOFTER if I crank the knob all the way to the right. It is loudest at 12 o'clock._

 

Check the pot ground wire on the side of the pot casing...it may have come off during shipment....

 Here's a pic showing it (the pot in the pic is the upgraded ALPS) attached to the ALps pot. The stock pot also needs this wire connected to it's casing.

 You may have to reheat the solder on it to "reflow" the joint with your soldering iron (if you have one).

 There are other possibilities, look at the underside of the pcb. Is there any leads not trimmed that may be in contact with the metal chassis ?






 Hopefully this solves the issue. Make sure your opamps are fully seated and oriented in the correct direction.



 Peete.


----------



## syg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Check the pot ground wire on the side of the pot casing...it may have come off during shipment....

 Here's a pic showing it (the pot in the pic is the upgraded ALPS) attached to the ALps pot. The stock pot also needs this wire connected to it's casing.

 You may have to reheat the solder on it to "reflow" the joint with your soldering iron (if you have one).

 There are other possibilities, look at the underside of the pcb. Is there any leads not trimmed that may be in contact with the metal chassis ?






 Hopefully this solves the issue. Make sure your opamps are fully seated and oriented in the correct direction.



 Peete._

 

Thanks for the reply. I am looking at the left side of the pot right now, and there is *no wire* at all, it doesn't look like something broke off during shipment. Guess I need to go get a wire and solder a ground myself?

 Edit: If I just use a coax cable, the buzzing disappears, so it IS a grounding issue. I'm guessing the coax shield grounds the Zero as well. I was using optical before.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

double post


----------



## Pricklely Peete

removed


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Syg,

 A small gage (22 or 24 gage, whatever you can find that will fit the pcb hole) section of solid core should do the job.

 Solder it as instructed and that should solve the buzzing.

 Peete.


----------



## syg

Peete,

 In the mean time, is there any downside to just letting the coax shield ground the thing? My chassis looks different than the one in the pictures I've seen -- there are vent son both the bottom and the top, and they're situated on top of the headphone amp pcb. I wonder if the manufacture made a slight revision and accidentally didn't ground the pot. Anybody else buy a stock Zero recently?

 Senofon,

 I actually have more confidence in the technical expertise of people in this thread over the seller.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *syg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Peete,

 In the mean time, is there any downside to just letting the coax shield ground the thing? My chassis looks different than the one in the pictures I've seen -- there are vent son both the bottom and the top, and they're situated on top of the headphone amp pcb. I wonder if the manufacture made a slight revision and accidentally didn't ground the pot. Anybody else buy a stock Zero recently?

 Senofon,

 I actually have more confidence in the technical expertise of people in this thread over the seller. _

 

You can leave it as is for now but get that pot casing grounded at some point in the near future is my advice. Don't listen to Andrea. It's a 5 minute job to add that little section of wire. It should have been caught during testing (unless they used a coax cable for the final QC test...)

 You know that's funny you should say that...it's most likely true since the workers that may be assembling these may have no technical skill whatsoever. It's a conceivable fact at any rate WRT China's huge unskilled (and smaller but highly skilled) labor force.

 Nothing that isn't done anywhere else mind you on budget electronics, they are simply copying the Western model and killing the competition with better gear at lower cost. 

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *senofon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW, I'm having amazing results with THS4031 opamps. I wonder how two of them on a Browndog (type "20302") would sound in the Zero. I'd also feel the urge to try the AD8599 (which is dual, and only SMD so adapter needed) in the Zero, both in the DAC and in the amp. The AD8599 is a new audio opamp, that was reported to be more transparent, and more delicate as well, than the LT1364._

 

Andrea knock off the obscure opamp advice...your not fooling anyone here.

 Peete.


----------



## Deftoned

I just came across this thread. And it got me a little worried to be honest.

 Any ideas of what could be causing that? Could it be OPAs inserted the wrong way?

 I was just about to order! I guess I need not to worry, since there are so many working units...


----------



## MasZakrY

Received my Earth today and it sounds great after only 2 hours of burn in. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Still waiting on my Linear samples though. The LM4562's don't sound "bad" but with the Earth in I can really hear the unnatural increase in bass & treble over what I've memorized in my reference songs because of the LM4562's.


----------



## MasZakrY

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Deftoned* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just came across this thread. And it got me a little worried to be honest.

 Any ideas of what could be causing that? Could it be OPAs inserted the wrong way?

 I was just about to order! I guess I need not to worry, since there are so many working units..._

 

Personally, I burned the Zero in for 5 hours with some cheap $20 headphones before the Zero even got close to being penetrated by my Ms2i's


----------



## Deftoned

Quote:


 I can really hear the unnatural increase in bass & treble over what I've memorized in my reference songs. 
 

Unnatural increase as in a good way? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Yeah, I will def. do the same. I think I'd cry if my w100 would go up in smoke...


----------



## Deftoned

Btw. Just finished reading the smaller reviews you made, Peete, earlier in this thread. Thanks for making that effort!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Thanks D.

 It took me quite a while to complete as I was the HDAM guinea pig back then and I wanted to be dead sure of what I was hearing before opening my yap.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Deftoned* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just came across this thread. And it got me a little worried to be honest.

 Any ideas of what could be causing that? Could it be OPAs inserted the wrong way?

 I was just about to order! I guess I need not to worry, since there are so many working units..._

 

Of the hundreds/thousands of units sold and in use this is the first instance of this kind of failure that I can recall...still, it's troubling to say the least.

 Seems LC's QC is down the drain of late. I've never ever heard of an amp melting ear buds voice coils......guess there's a first for everything ?

 I wonder if it's a bad batch of transformers ? I've run into that one before on a super expensive German SS power amp I bought (1 of 2 amps I bought went up in smoke within 24 hours of initial power up). Stunk like hell for a few weeks in the old listening room.....yikes what a stench fried electronics make.

 I hope this guy's problems are looked after properly and his buds are replaced. I'd demand a new set for my troubles. He'll have to send the buds with the amp though...IMO. Might as well they are toast.

 Peete.


----------



## helicopter34234

It wasn't just my buds that got burned up, I initially tried out the amp with my $50 HD497's (so stupid, but who would think an amp would blow up your headphones). I wasn't hearing any sound and as I was fiddling with my computer to see if something was wrong with the SPDIF output I felt my right ear get warm. I immediately switched to the $2 buds and they burned up immediately (I guess lower impedance). I tested my Senn's on my Zen and the right ear is distorted and about half the volume of the left ear, so basically they are done too.


----------



## Currawong

Someone asked earlier how the Zero compares to the Lavry DA10. My DA10 arrived today and in a quick comparison to the Zero, the DA10's HP amp is far far better, not surprisingly. As a DAC the DA10 is naturally much better, but dollar for dollar the HDAM-upgraded Zero is not 3/4rs off the sound as it is the price. There is less clarity and less soundstage, but not a great deal less in either, at least not without me investing in some hugely expensive amp and balanced headphones.


----------



## PlasticChicken

Just got my opa-earth but they forgot to add in the lead extensions 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




(when i specifically told them i wanted them and paid for it) so now I'm left with a zero with a open cover. Hopefully the sound will make up for it.


----------



## MasZakrY

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PlasticChicken* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got my opa-earth but they forgot to add in the lead extensions 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





(when i specifically told them i wanted them and paid for it) so now I'm left with a zero with a open cover. Hopefully the sound will make up for it._

 

Do a double check. With the way mine was packaged, I thought he forgot as well but it eventually fell out onto the floor.


----------



## PlasticChicken

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MasZakrY* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do a double check. With the way mine was packaged, I thought he forgot as well but it eventually fell out onto the floor. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

oh hey its there! For some reason I thought the extensions would soldered onto the hdam itself. Now, another problem.

 I switched out the stock ne5532s for LT1634s and the sound was very quiet. Obviously something was wrong so I decided to switch back to the NE5532 and the same thing happens. Doesn't matter much since I only use the zero as a dac but it will give me some peace of mind having a working amp section.


----------



## MasZakrY

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PlasticChicken* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_oh hey its there! For some reason I thought the extensions would soldered onto the hdam itself. Now, another problem.

 I switched out the stock ne5532s for LT1634s and the sound was very quiet. Obviously something was wrong so I decided to switch back to the NE5532 and the same thing happens. Doesn't matter much since I only use the zero as a dac but it will give me some peace of mind having a working amp section._

 

Glad to hear you found it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sounds to me like you put the headphone stage opamps in backwards, forgot to select the "preamp" option where the green light is on or just dont have the volume up to ~9:00. 

 As an aside here, has anyone had to make extra ventilation for the HDAM when mounted across the DAC board? It seems to get quite warm even with the top off.


----------



## AlexinExile

I have a question:
 I want to get this to connect to my MacBook. Can I use the Xitel MD-Port DG2 that is included to do this? Or should I get a adapter that goes from digital to 3.5? I want to this with my AE2s and future desktop rig.. Thanks.


----------



## bundee1

hey peete I remember way back when someone posted pictures of their hdam next to the transformer and you said it was ok. I wanted to do the same because I got my 200mm extension today. I figured since it was closer to the vent it would help with cooling. Would the transformer mess with the sound quality or cause interference?


----------



## syg

New problem(?) with my unit. Sometimes when I play a song, there would be crackling throughout the song, which corrects itself if I restart the song. The only digital out (of the correct size, I have no adapters) I have on my computer is the onboard sound card which I have _not_ used before, at all. I've plugged phones directly into the card and they don't experience this once-in-a-while crackling sound. Is this a DAC problem, opamp problem, or just a soundcard problem?

 Also, selecting 192KHz output from the soundcard makes the DAC board do a clicking sound but produces no sound.

 I'm obviously not very technically proficient about DACs and soundcards, so assistance would be appreciated.


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *syg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_New problem(?) with my unit. Sometimes when I play a song, there would be crackling throughout the song, which corrects itself if I restart the song. The only digital out (of the correct size, I have no adapters) I have on my computer is the onboard sound card which I have not used before, at all. I've plugged phones directly into the card and they don't experience this once-in-a-while crackling sound. Is this a DAC problem, opamp problem, or just a soundcard problem?

 Also, selecting 192KHz output from the soundcard makes the DAC board do a clicking sound but produces no sound.

 I'm obviously not very technically proficient about DACs and soundcards, so assistance would be appreciated._

 

Are you using optical? 192KHz is only possible with coax, not optical, and you really won't have any benefit to upscaling imho, just keep it at 44hz or whatever the source material is, bit-perfect.

 I've had crackling once or twice, and it was interference from the powerline in my case. Try to move the dac, and make sure you do not have something like fluorescent bulb or perhaps a dimmer switch, those can cause hums and interference. Cellphones may also cause such crackling.


----------



## randomasdf

I have a couple relatives in China, so I want to buy two audio-gd's
 Should I go for earth and moon? What would be best sounding, or most fun?


----------



## syg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you using optical? 192KHz is only possible with coax, not optical, and you really won't have any benefit to upscaling imho, just keep it at 44hz or whatever the source material is, bit-perfect.

 I've had crackling once or twice, and it was interference from the powerline in my case. Try to move the dac, and make sure you do not have something like fluorescent bulb or perhaps a dimmer switch, those can cause hums and interference. Cellphones may also cause such crackling._

 

I am using coax, actually.

 I don't think the crackling is interference, because as I've said, the crackling fixes itself when I restart the song. It seems like a problem on the computer end with the data it's sending on the cable? I dunno.


----------



## falke401

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *randomasdf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a couple relatives in China_

 


 Sweet!! Now tell them to go to Lawrence and kick his ass and tell him to send me my damn zero parts...


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *syg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am using coax, actually.

 I don't think the crackling is interference, because as I've said, the crackling fixes itself when I restart the song. It seems like a problem on the computer end with the data it's sending on the cable? I dunno._

 

 I've heard people complain about this problem with built-in cards in the past - was one (of several) reasons I bought a discrete sound card. It may (unfortunately) be the digital out of the card. If you've never used the sound card before, what have you used instead? If you have a card with a mini-optical out (like x-fi) it would be worth it to get a cable for that. They aren't expensive really.


----------



## syg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've heard people complain about this problem with built-in cards in the past - was one (of several) reasons I bought a discrete sound card. It may (unfortunately) be the digital out of the card. If you've never used the sound card before, what have you used instead? If you have a card with a mini-optical out (like x-fi) it would be worth it to get a cable for that. They aren't expensive really._

 

Indeed that's the case, I have an Audigy 2 Gamer I use for my headset with a mini-coax out. I just haven't gotten around to buying a mini-to-RCA converter yet. Also I liked the idea of not having to unplug my headset to plug in my DAC everytime I wanted to do something other than game. Oh well!


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *syg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Indeed that's the case, I have an Audigy 2 Gamer I use for my headset with a mini-coax out. I just haven't gotten around to buying a mini-to-RCA converter yet. Also I liked the idea of not having to unplug my headset to plug in my DAC everytime I wanted to do something other than game. Oh well!_

 

OK check this out:
CREATIVE SOUND BLASTER AUDIGY 2zs WITH BREAKOUT BOX*NR* - eBay (item 170272880894 end time Oct-26-08 19:02:43 PDT)

 That means there was a breakout box made for that series, no?
 Or maybe even the ones for the x-fis might work? I love that thing - was one of the reasons I got the card I did. The headphone jack served my Grado's quite well... for a while. Anyway if you could find one of those cheap it would solve all your problems and keep both DAC and headset digital.

 Heh just a thought.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey peete I remember way back when someone posted pictures of their hdam next to the transformer and you said it was ok. I wanted to do the same because I got my 200mm extension today. I figured since it was closer to the vent it would help with cooling. Would the transformer mess with the sound quality or cause interference?_

 

Hi bundee1,

 You should be alright if you want to move it back...you'll have to add an extension lead to your ground wire to reach the Jack assembly ground pin though.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *syg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_New problem(?) with my unit. Sometimes when I play a song, there would be crackling throughout the song, which corrects itself if I restart the song. The only digital out (of the correct size, I have no adapters) I have on my computer is the onboard sound card which I have not used before, at all. I've plugged phones directly into the card and they don't experience this once-in-a-while crackling sound. Is this a DAC problem, opamp problem, or just a soundcard problem?

 Also, selecting 192KHz output from the soundcard makes the DAC board do a clicking sound but produces no sound.

 I'm obviously not very technically proficient about DACs and soundcards, so assistance would be appreciated._

 

Drop your sample rate back to either 44.1 khz as DaMnEd suggests or 96/88.2, you'll get no real benefit from 192, 96, 88.2, or 48 khz anyway. Hi rez files are another story (most are at 24/96, some at 24/192 with the most common 24/48 ). If you want to up sample choose 48, 88.2 or 96 khz. 88.2 is a simple 2 X multiple and should not give an decent SC a problem with the math.

 Try 44.1 bit perfect for a while. I find I prefer it greatly over up sampling. YMMV of course 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## shampoosuicide

deleted


----------



## nakedtoes

how do u guys connect the DAC to the computer?? i very much prefer the sound using USB to Optical converter then to the DAC VS direct optical from PC to DAC... The sound is so much dynamic and clear.. but i experience drop out when for example when a web page is loading or occassionally drop.. what can be done to stop this??

 i tried to put foobar pirioty to realtime and also disable USB power down in control panel and it does not help


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nakedtoes* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_how do u guys connect the DAC to the computer?? i very much prefer the sound using USB to Optical converter then to the DAC VS direct optical from PC to DAC... The sound is so much dynamic and clear.. but i experience drop out when for example when a web page is loading or occassionally drop.. what can be done to stop this??

 i tried to put foobar pirioty to realtime and also disable USB power down in control panel and it does not help
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Most likely you'd benefit from a second, dedicated USB card in your computer. USB2 claims a 480Mb/sec transfer rate, but that is shared with all the ports, and when other devices use the I/O it can slow down tremendously (much moreso than other technologies like firewire). Most likely starting the application is accessing the USB bus in some way causing the throughput to th converter to stutter for a sec.

 If you get a PCI USB card (they're pretty inexpensive) you can connect only the adapter to it and you shouldn't have any issues.

 Of course it could be something else...


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nakedtoes* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_how do u guys connect the DAC to the computer?? i very much prefer the sound using USB to Optical converter then to the DAC VS direct optical from PC to DAC... The sound is so much dynamic and clear.. but i experience drop out when for example when a web page is loading or occassionally drop.. what can be done to stop this??

 i tried to put foobar pirioty to realtime and also disable USB power down in control panel and it does not help
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

What u have heard is because of the computer interface with the converter.

 The most important parameter in the converter is the frequency source, which relate to power supply regulation and the JITTER.

 that's why u can never hear good sound on that, unless u are willing to pay for Monarchy or Trend or other signal processors. Not long into the future, there will be a product, cost effective and good from the designer of OPA Earth.


----------



## bgt

got my zero and the Hdam's earth and moon. In trying to mod the zero, taking the caps out of the audio path, I come across quite an offset at the outputs resp. 50 and 80 mv. Have to see what to do about it.


----------



## ScottieB

So after a few days with my OPA Moon...

 I honestly don't hear much difference between this and the Earth when going DAC out to my MKIII.

 BUT with the Zero's internal amp (and the 1364s) it sounds much nicer to my ears. More dynamic, more details - and closer to my MKIII than it's ever been. this is a nice surprise! I was never really that into the Zero's amp, but last night I didn't feel any desire to go back to the MKIII! It really feels like it just gels with the Senns better now with the Moon in the DAC section. Very cool, indeed! I'll see what more burn-in brings.


----------



## glitch39

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *syg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_New problem(?) with my unit. Sometimes when I play a song, there would be crackling throughout the song, which corrects itself if I restart the song. The only digital out (of the correct size, I have no adapters) I have on my computer is the onboard sound card which I have not used before, at all._

 

If you are using asio, you'd need to play around with the timing setting . I had mine initially down to 25ms and it would be ok on some songs, crackling on others and on a few occasions, foobar would throw an error. when I upped it to 100ms+, all problems went away


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bgt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_got my zero and the Hdam's earth and moon. In trying to mod the zero, taking the caps out of the audio path, I come across quite an offset at the outputs resp. 50 and 80 mv. Have to see what to do about it._

 

Hmmm....from which vendor did you buy your Zero from ?


 Peete.


----------



## syg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *glitch39* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you are using asio, you'd need to play around with the timing setting . I had mine initially down to 25ms and it would be ok on some songs, crackling on others and on a few occasions, foobar would throw an error. when I upped it to 100ms+, all problems went away_

 

I'm using WASAPI, not ASIO. I'm just going to chalk it up to the onboard sound being crappy. I went out and bought a 1/8" to RCA adapter and am using my Audigy 2 now - what a difference that made!


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *syg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm using WASAPI, not ASIO. I'm just going to chalk it up to the onboard sound being crappy. I went out and bought a 1/8" to RCA adapter and am using my Audigy 2 now - what a difference that made!_

 

Oh cool! Well now you should be able to use ASIO if you want - creative has it with all their cards.


----------



## shampoosuicide

I apologise in advance for this noob question:

 I just got a Zero and the optical cable provided does not seem to be able to plug into my iMac's optical out. Do I need an adapter or something for it to connect?


----------



## Currawong

Is your iMac's optical out one that uses the headphone port? You need a $2 mini-optical to Toslink adaptor.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AlexinExile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a question:
 I want to get this to connect to my MacBook. Can I use the Xitel MD-Port DG2 that is included to do this? Or should I get a adapter that goes from digital to 3.5? I want to this with my AE2s and future desktop rig.. Thanks._

 

If you have a MacBook, all you need is a Mini-optical to Toslink cable, or optical cable that has an adaptor. I haven't tried one yet, but the only place I could find somewhere that did the proper cables without the nasty adaptor was here.


----------



## shampoosuicide

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is your iMac's optical out one that uses the headphone port? You need a $2 mini-optical to Toslink adaptor._

 

Yes, that's the one.

 I just went out to buy one of those adaptors and managed to plug it into my iMac, but it's not working.

 Can someone help me out here?

 Edit: Problem solved. It seems the cable provided is a little iffy. One of the ends was a little loose, and I swapped sides and now it works.


----------



## HippieTom

Hi. Just got a noob question. 
 Will me setup benefit from buying a zero DAc/AMP ? 
 I will use esi juli@ (with rca out)-- LD I+ -- K271s.

 Second question.
 I use a nad amp to my speakers.I would like to be able to use both amps without switching on the back of the dac. is it a good way to do this? 

 Can i have:
 Optical out from juli@ to Zero and to the LD and
 RCA out from juli@ to Nad at the same time?

 Final question:
 Lets say i buy the HD600s in the future and they are connected to the zero HP out all the time.will i be able to listen to the 271s connected to the LD with just pressing a button?

 Sorry for the comfusing questions but i dont want to start more treads now so hope someone understand my problem


----------



## bgt

Ok, solved the offset problem with 2 pots, 2M5ohm, and 2 resitors, 1Mohm, to the + inputs of the output amp. Each adjustable. So now the offset is about 1mv. Now the DAC is completely DC coupled, no caps. in the audio path. The HDAM Earth is seated on sticky tape. The sound is very nice. I am comparing it with my Buffalo/Opus DAC. I don't use a headphone so the difference is very hard to hear. Speakers are not like headphones.
 The housing of the Zero is really ugly/tastless. The Zhaolu 2.5 DAC I have is even uglier. I think I will rehouse it. The headphone amp. of the zero is far too hot. I disconnected it.


----------



## shampoosuicide

One more noob question:

 Is it advisable to turn the Zero off when I'm not using it? Will it overheat if I leave it on overnight to burn-in?


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HippieTom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can i have:
 Optical out from juli@ to Zero and to the LD and
 RCA out from juli@ to Nad at the same time?_

 

You'll have to check the manual for the Juli as to what you can do with it.

  Quote:


 Final question:
 Lets say i buy the HD600s in the future and they are connected to the zero HP out all the time.will i be able to listen to the 271s connected to the LD with just pressing a button? 
 

Have a read of the FAQ in my sig. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Normally, only the DAC section is in operation, with output going straight to the rear RCA jacks. If the *Preamp* button is pressed, the output goes through the amp/pre-amp section as well, controllable with the volume knob. If headphones are plugged in and the *Preamp* button is pressed, the ZERO becomes a headphone amplifier. With headphones plugged in, no sound comes out of the RCA jacks.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shampoosuicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One more noob question:

 Is it advisable to turn the Zero off when I'm not using it? Will it overheat if I leave it on overnight to burn-in?_

 

It wont overheat, no. I've left it on for many hours with no problems. I wouldn't put other gear on top of it though so it can have some ventilation as it does get quite warm.


----------



## MasZakrY

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bgt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, solved the offset problem with 2 pots, 2M5ohm, and 2 resitors, 1Mohm, to the + inputs of the output amp. Each adjustable. So now the offset is about 1mv. Now the DAC is completely DC coupled, no caps. in the audio path. The HDAM Earth is seated on sticky tape. The sound is very nice. I am comparing it with my Buffalo/Opus DAC. I don't use a headphone so the difference is very hard to hear. Speakers are not like headphones.
 The housing of the Zero is really ugly/tastless. The Zhaolu 2.5 DAC I have is even uglier. I think I will rehouse it. The headphone amp. of the zero is far too hot. I disconnected it. 









_

 

Does the zero not use a phase locked loop to track this offset? Are you using that resistor network as an offset resistor to generate an offset voltage which is coupled between the inverting input of the op amp and the op amp's output? OR is this an Andrea solution. Prickly Pete, comments?
 EDIT: would the HDAM not overheat by being encased in thick tape?


----------



## shampoosuicide

Thanks for the reply, Curra.

 Do you think it would be alright if I left my Zero to burn-in overnight? I have 20 min pink noise alternating with 2 min digital silence.


----------



## HippieTom

Thanx Currawong.


----------



## bgt

There is no PLL for the offset. This is just a pot between +&- 15V going over a 1Mohm resistor to the + inputs , pin 3 and 5, of the output buffer.
 And yes, the HDAM gets a bit warm. Will redo it.


----------



## Stanley

Hi,

 I have soldered version of OPA627AUs free after purchasing HDAM Earth. Is it possible to use these OPA627AUs in Zero head-amp instead of one LT1364? Anyone tried this combination?

 Thanks,
 Stanley


----------



## ScottieB

@Stanley:

 You can, but you'd need 4 627s total - 2 each on 2 adapters. I don't remember the details but I'm pretty sure people have tried this and found it less than exciting...


----------



## audio-gd

I don't commend through this way to keep the output pot at 0VDC.
 Why had DC level in there?
 Because AD1852 is a single power supply chip, those output Pin of AD1852 have half power voltage, there are 2.5V.
 But all those Pin don't have completely same voltage, maybe +out Pin had 2.53V,and -out Pin had 2.47V. The output analogy circuit is a difference amp, in this DAC is use a OP-IC to do that.
 The output level of difference amp =VIn+ - VIn︳, in this case, output level=2.53-2.47=60MV.

 Why I don't commend add a 1M ohms and adjust resistor to keep output DC at 0V?
 These resistors will change the impedance of Vin+, then let the difference amp been un- balance, the distortion will grow up.
 If clear to say this , it need a lot of words , but unhappily, my English is very bad. I hope you can guess and mean what I said.

 Most amp had input couple cap or DC serve circuits, so I think, less than 100MV DC at DAC output , most amp will safe to work. You can test the DC level of the amp output pot , if near 0V, it work well.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Hmmmm further investigation (explanation ) WRT to dc offset would be warranted and appreciated.

 This goes above my head at the moment but I do understand the concepts and why too much offset is a bad thing. It would seem though that the design of the Zero revolves around it pluses and it's minuses as does any design where certain compromises to topology must be compensated for or enhanced.

 I have noted no ill effects from the stock arrangement as I believe Kingwa is correct in saying some offset if low enough is harmless and is present in a lot of designs...then again it's equally intriguing to see a learned new member of the Zero club redesign the circuit topology somewhat to arrive at a new configuration 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This thread is certainly loaded with great information. 

 I marvel at the comments about a chassis being ugly...at this price point what do you expect ? It's functional and it serves the purpose, that's good enough for me...however if one spends money on a new chassis that's also really cool IMO...so...it's up to the individual once again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Either way I'm learning loads from you guys and loving it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## HippieTom

I started readin this BIG thread. What headphones does NOT fit this amp? 
 Can i buy whatever can i want and it will sound great?I Read the first ten pages and from that it seemed to fit most phones. so is there any no no?

 EDIT. Or any specs? I mean - 32ohm = 600mW F.eks


----------



## bgt

Audio-gd, I respect your comments but think about it, 100mv offset x50(=gain power amp)=5 volt offset when volume is at the highest level. This happens when I test the system. The protection shuts off at about 800mv DC on the speaker output, so no solution.
 Either way, if you use an offset integrator you connect a high ohmic resistor to the + opamp input also. Also think like this: the impedance at the + input is low=HF filter + impedance from the DAC chip =about 1k....so what does 1M do.....nearly nothing just offset the +input to match the - input. My Opus/Buffalo/Zhaolu/Elektor2000 are all DC coupled also. No problem. They don't need the offset adjuster BTW.
 Soundwise= no difference but now I can crank up the volume to max. This is so cool. DC coupling is so accurate!


----------



## randomasdf

interesting modding bgt
 i wish i had the time and ability to do the same =| probably just going to settle for a HDAM upgrade.


----------



## Currawong

Can I suggest discussing mods to the zero in the Zero mod thread?

 shampoosuicide: Should be no problem burning it in overnight. I gather just leaving it on, regardless if music is playing or not will burn it in. The more fun way, IMO, is to just listen to music through it and enjoy the change in the sound, but each to their own.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So after a few days with my OPA Moon...

 I honestly don't hear much difference between this and the Earth when going DAC out to my MKIII.

 BUT with the Zero's internal amp (and the 1364s) it sounds much nicer to my ears. More dynamic, more details - and closer to my MKIII than it's ever been. this is a nice surprise! I was never really that into the Zero's amp, but last night I didn't feel any desire to go back to the MKIII! It really feels like it just gels with the Senns better now with the Moon in the DAC section. Very cool, indeed! I'll see what more burn-in 
 brings._

 

Hi ScottieB, interesting comments there! I too have taken a much greater liking to the Zero's amp, but with me it's the fabulous FRANKENZERO mods that have done the trick, as I'm using OPA Earth in the DAC. Franking the Zero -
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





- has done extraordinary things with music both with the inbuilt amp and KHA with OPA Moon on board. Stunning stunning things!
 PP has asked me to write a small piece describing the modding process, so that will appear in Head-Fi before long. This will be especially applicable to noobies, as there are a number of things to watch out for, particularly in the early stages of the mods.
 My Frankied amp is particularly good with the Denon headphones (mine are D1000's), which has surprised me greatly, they are really singing in here! Seems like Pench and I have come across the same sort of treat here, the Zero's amp has magically transformed from really quite bland to my ears into something really fun to listen to! Way cool, it's like I've gained a bonus amp! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That's with the Senn 650's as well, though they still perform better with KHA as a whole. S-Man


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AlexinExile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a question:
 I want to get this to connect to my MacBook. Can I use the Xitel MD-Port DG2 that is included to do this? Or should I get a adapter that goes from digital to 3.5? I want to this with my AE2s and future desktop rig.. Thanks._

 

The Xitel will function with your laptop. I've been using the Xitel USB-SPDIF adaptor since I often use my Zero with my laptop (no optical out). SQ sounds fine to me at 320Kb/S files and streaming audio.

 Why not firstly try it, since it's included? You can always nextly try optical or coax then, and see if you can hear a difference. Other peeps here can give technical reasons why optical/coax trumps USB, however (16b vs 24b, possible CPU noise, etc., etc.).


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you using optical? 192KHz is only possible with coax, not optical,

 [...]
_

 

Hi DaMnEd -

 Why is this?

 Not trying to hold you up on this.

 But wondering why this would be? Something specific to the SC?


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So after a few days with my OPA Moon...

 I honestly don't hear much difference between this and the Earth when going DAC out to my MKIII.

 BUT with the Zero's internal amp (and the 1364s) it sounds much nicer to my ears. More dynamic, more details - and closer to my MKIII than it's ever been. this is a nice surprise! I was never really that into the Zero's amp, but last night I didn't feel any desire to go back to the MKIII! It really feels like it just gels with the Senns better now with the Moon in the DAC section. Very cool, indeed! I'll see what more burn-in brings._

 

Well, after spending several days with my new LD 1+ (stock 6JI driver tubes) hanging off the Zero's DAC, and doing some A/B comparisons with the Zero's LT1364 HPA, I must admit I'm pretty impressed with the inexpensive Zero's HPA.

 O.K., the LD 1+ is decidedly not an upscale amp, but still, several days in, the Zero holds it's own, TBH. I'm going give the LD 1+ some more burn-in time and then post my opinions in the LD 1+ thread. But I'm not surprised you enjoy the Zero's HPA. I think it has on-the-cheap potential. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 @all - And, even tho I haven't been around all week, with this third post I'll give you guys a rest from tonight's prolific posting!


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi DaMnEd -

 Why is this?

 Not trying to hold you up on this.

 But wondering why this would be? Something specific to the SC?_

 

HI StratCat,

 Implementing 192KHz trough S/PDIF optical is very costly (to be done correctly) and problematic, as such you will have difficulty finding any source that can handle 192KHz trough S/PDIF optical (in or out). Most manufacturers that offer both (coax and optical) fail to mention this limitation on their equipment, and only say "192KHz trough S/PDIF", but you will find that only with coax that will be achievable.

 And the equipments that I've personaly seen trying to implement it, had problems, errors, frequent drop-outs etc.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HI StratCat,

 Implementing 192KHz trough S/PDIF optical is very costly (to be done correctly) and problematic, as such you will have difficulty finding any source that can handle 192KHz trough S/PDIF optical (in or out). Most manufacturers that offer both (coax and optical) fail to mention this limitation on their equipment, and only say "192KHz trough S/PDIF", but you will find that only with coax that will be achievable.

 And the equipments that I've personaly seen trying to implement it, had problems, errors, frequent drop-outs etc._

 

Ah, O.K., Thx -

 So this was similar to what I was guessing: It's a limitation with the source device, not the Zero. But, if I understand you correctly, even with source equiptment manufactuer spec'd at 192K it's safer to use the coax OP to get the highest and most accurate bitrate.

 If your explanation is accurate, then this might explain why some peeps assert they get better SQ from coax cables. It may actually be the differences in thier OP device's s/pdif conversion they are hearing. If that makes sense?

 Interesting observation, DaMnEd.


----------



## isao2k8

Let me ask some question. Is "RCA ground" this?






 And one more question, Is it safe to turn on power without soldering the ground wire of HDAM anywhere?


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *isao2k8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Let me ask some question. Is "RCA ground" this?

 And one more question, Is it safe to turn on power without soldering the ground wire of HDAM anywhere?_

 

Yes. U can solder 1 wire to the pin u marked. Then connect that wire to the OPA Earth ground wire. Please note, by connecting ground wire of OPA u will have some improvement in SQ, especially the vocal.

 We do a lot of mod for CD 63 and CD 67 with OPA Earth. If without the ground, the vocal will sound out of tone.


----------



## bgt

the real ground/earth of the Zero is at the headphone volume pot.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bgt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is no PLL for the offset. This is just a pot between +&- 15V going over a 1Mohm resistor to the + inputs , pin 3 and 5, of the output buffer.
 And yes, the HDAM gets a bit warm. Will redo it._

 

Hi,

 1. can I ask What is your concern on DC Offset?

 2. When u say cant tell the difference, what is the aim of the DC offset.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *audio-gd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't commend through this way to keep the output pot at 0VDC.
 Why had DC level in there?
 Because AD1852 is a single power supply chip, those output Pin of AD1852 have half power voltage, there are 2.5V.
 But all those Pin don't have completely same voltage, maybe +out Pin had 2.53V,and -out Pin had 2.47V. The output analogy circuit is a difference amp, in this DAC is use a OP-IC to do that.
 The output level of difference amp =VIn+ - VIn︳, in this case, output level=2.53-2.47=60MV.

 Why I don't commend add a 1M ohms and adjust resistor to keep output DC at 0V?
 These resistors will change the impedance of Vin+, then let the difference amp been un- balance, the distortion will grow up.
 If clear to say this , it need a lot of words , but unhappily, my English is very bad. I hope you can guess and mean what I said.

 Most amp had input couple cap or DC serve circuits, so I think, less than 100MV DC at DAC output , most amp will safe to work. You can test the DC level of the amp output pot , if near 0V, it work well._

 

Give me a second and the jury will out whether u are Andrea nausea. Apparently kingwa replied. I am proven wrong but I am happy.


----------



## bgt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,

 1. can I ask What is your concern on DC Offset?

 2. When u say cant tell the difference, what is the aim of the DC offset._

 

Ccschua, some posts earlier I explained to audio-gd why I used the offset compensation to use it for a completely dc coupled system.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HippieTom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I started readin this BIG thread. What headphones does NOT fit this amp? 
 Can i buy whatever can i want and it will sound great?I Read the first ten pages and from that it seemed to fit most phones. so is there any no no?

 EDIT. Or any specs? I mean - 32ohm = 600mW F.eks_

 

I wouldn't care to try and drive K340s with it, from what I've read about them. There's nothing standard that you can't plug in, but quite a bit you just wont get the best out of. For example, if you bought K701s for their great soundstage, it would be a bit silly IMO to drive them just out of the Zero's headphone amp as you just wont get such a large soundstage with it.


----------



## isao2k8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes. U can solder 1 wire to the pin u marked. Then connect that wire to the OPA Earth ground wire. Please note, by connecting ground wire of OPA u will have some improvement in SQ, especially the vocal.

 We do a lot of mod for CD 63 and CD 67 with OPA Earth. If without the ground, the vocal will sound out of tone._

 

All right, thanks for your help!


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmmmm further investigation (explanation ) WRT to dc offset would be warranted and appreciated.

 This goes above my head at the moment but I do understand the concepts and why too much offset is a bad thing. It would seem though that the design of the Zero revolves around it pluses and it's minuses as does any design where certain compromises to topology must be compensated for or enhanced.

 I have noted no ill effects from the stock arrangement as I believe Kingwa is correct in saying some offset if low enough is harmless and is present in a lot of designs...then again it's equally intriguing to see a learned new member of the Zero club redesign the circuit topology somewhat to arrive at a new configuration 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This thread is certainly loaded with great information. 

 I marvel at the comments about a chassis being ugly...at this price point what do you expect ? It's functional and it serves the purpose, that's good enough for me...however if one spends money on a new chassis that's also really cool IMO...so...it's up to the individual once again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Either way I'm learning loads from you guys and loving it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

I was measuring the output at RCA L and RCA R with respect to ground and I came across DC. 

 If I recalled that DC is more than 100mV. However I will check to confirm that. So far, my amp runs fine without any problem.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bgt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ccschua, some posts earlier I explained to audio-gd why I used the offset compensation to use it for a completely dc coupled system._

 

So your mod is to protect the amp and did little to SQ ?


----------



## Sganzerla

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bgt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the real ground/earth of the Zero is at the headphone volume pot._

 

 Can you show where?

 I don't know if I made this correct (I think so) but haven't noticed any improvement in sound quality after pluging HDAM's ground at RCA's. Maybe after listening for an hour and disconnecting wires (i'm using alligator clips) the sound looks a little thinner than before. That's all about in my experience (and it may be placebo). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I'm not using an external amp, by the way...

 The difference in quality between AR entry level coaxial and Tributaries SVC SS was very apparent to me, more like the way people describes grounding HDAM in Zero.


----------



## bgt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can I suggest discussing mods to the zero in the Zero mod thread?_

 

I did


----------



## bgt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So your mod is to protect the amp and did little to SQ ?_

 


 ccschua, taking the caps. out always improves the sound. And the DC offset compensation is just so i do not get any dc at the Power amp's input. My passive pre is also DC coupled. The protection relay switches the speakers from the power amp's output if there is too much DC at the input. Either way having DC on your speaker is no good for the bass section.
 And it causes crackles in my stepped attenuator if I turn up the volume.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bgt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ccschua, taking the caps. out always improves the sound. And the DC offset compensation is just so i do not get any dc at the Power amp's input. My passive pre is also DC coupled. The protection relay switches the speakers from the power amp's output if there is too much DC at the input. Either way having DC on your speaker is no good for the bass section.
 And it causes crackles in my stepped attenuator if I turn up the volume._

 

Somewhere along the line, my thots are always wondering on the volume pot.

 When I switch to preamp mod, I can use the volume pot to adjust the output to the external amp. 

 Wonder if u can explain what makes the volume earth as the ground point. 

 And the fact is I am having the crackles in my stepped attenuator on my integrated Audio space AS2.8i. [now with Mullard CV4003 tubes]


 -----

 Separately I am going to bring back my tools for ground uncovering.


----------



## bgt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can you show where?_


----------



## bgt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wonder if u can explain what makes the volume earth as the ground point._

 

ccschua, the designer of the DAC probably thought this was the best grounding point in combination with the headphone amp. Ofcourse when you don't use the headphone amp. like I do you could use another ground point.
 But I noticed it is not very strict on grounding it somewhere else.


----------



## ccschua

This coincides with what audio-gd has said. Audio-gd has done a unit of DAC 100 which uses AD1852 and I know he is well aware of that.

 I do notice some tonal shift of the ZERO dac into bright side. perhaps it is due to silver wire to the RCA and the snipping???


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bgt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ccschua, the designer of the DAC probably thought this was the best grounding point in combination with the headphone amp. Ofcourse when you don't use the headphone amp. like I do you could use another ground point.
 But I noticed it is not very strict on grounding it somewhere else._

 

I would think that the best ground is still the ground nearest to the point of origin. 

 if the OPA is used in the headphone amp, connect the ground to the volume ground [the shorted ground return path rule apply]


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bgt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ccschua, the designer of the DAC probably thought this was the best grounding point in combination with the headphone amp. Ofcourse when you don't use the headphone amp. like I do you could use another ground point.
 But I noticed it is not very strict on grounding it somewhere else._

 

Does the DC offset also results in unbalance sound, meaning not center sounding, in that one side sound louder than the other side. If RCA is reverse, the reverse apply.


 Found some info regarding DC offset here. it is too long to read but I probably just leave it here so that a conclusion can be drawn. A point to note is that the amp must have the 'coupling cap' to remove the DC content.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...77992-p-2.html


----------



## bgt

the dc offset adjuster does nothing to the sound. The injected current is just too little. The audio currents are much higher. I listened before and after the mod. I would not do it otherwise. Its the same as the offset integrators in power amps. You just don't hear a difference after integrating it. Anyway I don't. Its ofcourse up to you what you might hear or think.


----------



## Sganzerla

I'm confused now, is it best to ground HDAM at volume pot or RCA? 

 People are grounding at RCA but Bert says it is better to do on the volume ground (that vertical wire) if using the amp in DAC, is that correct?

 My bad English is limiting my knowledge, I need some clarification.


----------



## bgt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm confused now, is it best to ground HDAM at volume pot or RCA?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thats not what I wrote. Look at the picture. You can connect it to the RCA also. But it is not a problem where you connect it.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm confused now, is it best to ground HDAM at volume pot or RCA? 

 People are grounding at RCA but Bert says it is better to do on the volume ground (that vertical wire) if using the amp in DAC, is that correct?

 My bad English is limiting my knowledge, I need some clarification. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

No confusion here. The DAC OPA ground is connected to RCA ground. The OPA at headphone amp can be connected to Volume pot ground for the moment.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, after spending several days with my new LD 1+ (stock 6JI driver tubes) hanging off the Zero's DAC, and doing some A/B comparisons with the Zero's LT1364 HPA, I must admit I'm pretty impressed with the inexpensive Zero's HPA.

 O.K., the LD 1+ is decidedly not an upscale amp, but still, several days in, the Zero holds it's own, TBH. I'm going give the LD 1+ some more burn-in time and then post my opinions in the LD 1+ thread. But I'm not surprised you enjoy the Zero's HPA. I think it has on-the-cheap potential. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 @all - And, even tho I haven't been around all week, with this third post I'll give you guys a rest from tonight's prolific posting! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That's also quite interesting. I wanted to clarify what I originally wrote. The LD MKIII is still worlds better than the Zero's amp. BUT for a while (I'm spoiled what can I say) I'd use the MKIII for anything - games, movies, etc. If I had audio coming out of the computer it was going thru the LD. But now, with the Moon in there, I'm much happier using the Zero's amp for less demanding audio tasks like movies and games. It really works nicely with my Beyer's (closed phones). The moon just gave it a bit more life - brought it to another level to my ears. For music, though, the tube amp is still the way I go. But I really think it was the OPA Moon that made the difference. Still burn-in time to be had though, so more time will tell.

 As for the frankenzero, no doubt it would improve everything, but it's just a bit further than I care to go - at least right now. I've spent enough time and money on this thing - time to listen and enjoy for a while. I now have 3 HDAM's and about 6 pairs of tubes to play with - that's plenty of modding for the near future. Then, when I feel the itch to buy something new, I'll know I have the option of modding my current stuff - which will be both less expensive and more satisfying (assuming I don't botch it ha!) than an all new purchase. But even to do those mods, I'd have alot of reading to do. You guys lose me at "bypass" to be honest...


----------



## ccschua

Me too. time to enjoy music, especially after I put in 2 Mullard 12AU7 CV4003 tubes.


----------



## Emanuel

I've always had the impression that the right channel was a little louder than the left one with headphones (I'm using an external integrated amp to listen, its not a problem of the internal zero amp, or maybe is just my old akai)
 So it could be the dc offset to cause that? Bgt, your mod can solve this issue?
 Thanks for your contribute


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Emanuel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've always had the impression that the right channel was a little louder than the left one with headphones (I'm using an external integrated amp to listen, its not a problem of the internal zero amp, or maybe is just my old akai)
 So it could be the dc offset to cause that? Bgt, your mod can solve this issue?
 Thanks for your contribute_

 

Nope it's the stock volume pot.......dc offset won't alter channel balance near as much (if at all...we are talking milli volts here folks ) as a cheap carbon pot will...this has been documented for quite some time.

 I have no channel imbalance at all (after swapping out the pot for the Alps unit), but I also have a near 100% rebuilt Zero so ....

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

asylum years = andrea folks....

 Peete.

 Hey, Headphoneus Supremus


----------



## taso89

I've also had the sensation of channel imbalance with my Little Dot when I use the Zero as DAC.. but I've even unplugged my Zero's headamp. Could the stock volume pot on the Zero still affect this? Turning up the knob will make no change in volume but will it get rid of the channel imbalance?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

What you guys have to remember here is the recording may be unbalanced...very few recordings are perfectly balanced, one of the reasons balance controls are still being used on pre-amps (although I shy away from all unnecessary circuitry, IMO again)...so it's a number of factors. 

 Use a test tone rather than music to determine if there actually is an imbalance. If the preamp/H/Amp section is off it's out of the circuit and will not influence fixed level mode.

 Another factor in all this is peoples hearing...I know of and am one guy who's hearing is a little (a very little ) worse for wear in one ear over the other (leaning in the Marshall stack for that feedback during a solo gets kinda hard on the ole left ear drum ). Of course everyones MMV.

 Just some additional factors to think about when talking about balance issues in any gear.

 The DC offset observed of late is a red herring WRT balance issues IMHO.....

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Asylum years* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've had an amazing experience lately. I've reported it all on Tweakers' Asylum

 Briefly, that is. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

More confirmation of who is behind yet another alias....

 Peete.


----------



## bundee1

Replacing the stock pot with the Alps will improve the sound if only because your point of reference is the center of the soundstage and if its shifted you will be hearing different instruments in the wrong places. I performed the Alps pot mod today and the correct things are dead center now. 

 I never realized how badly the image was off until I plugged in some headphones for the first time before the mod. Wow, the right side was considerably louder. 

 Getting the stock pot out was a pain for me but I eventually got it on the second try. It was my first soldering mod and took me 4 hours but others may have an easier time desoldering the pot. 

 One note make sure you get the new pot as flush as possible to the inner face of the Zero so the screwholes line up with the posts. If they are crooked or you are forced to press it up against the face to fit it might make one of the channels drop out. 

 My left channel kept dropping out after reassembly so I left the screw closest to the pot out to relieve pressure and the sound has been great so far.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Yep Bundee1 that has been the recommended cure (stock pot for Alps) for channel imbalance when using the H/Amp preamp section.

 It's a tight fit but you should be able to snug all stock bolts up without loosing a channel...you may want to revisit your soldering job on the vol pot pins. A small section of electrical tape underneath that area affixed to the bottom panel, will insulate the pins against shorts to the chassis. I think you may have a cold solder joint in the left channel.

 Are all 6 solder joints shiny or are some dull ? Dull irregular shaped joints are a sign of a bad or cold joint. Reflow the solder, you don't need to add any in most cases. Can you post a pic so I can have a look ?

 Thanks bro !!!

 Peete.


----------



## MasZakrY

My Zero as it stands now. I've cut little circles out of electrical tape with a hole punch to cover the power and coax leds. Also you can see the extra heatsinks attached to the DAC fets. The easiest way to attach heatsinks in this fashion is with heatsink compound (Arctic Silver) and CA.


----------



## bundee1

Thanks for the guidance peete. The joints are very pretty and shiny and I surprised myself with how good they look. I did redo the solder twice and it works when the screw is removed. There are 2 possibilities: I damaged a trace desoldering the stock pot or somehow the pressure is doing something to the pot itself. My alps pot is differnt than the one in your pics. I removed the tab on the side but it looks like it has more metal casing on the front than yours. 
 I'll take pics when I do my next mod.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Ah, ok you tried to fit that one you bought with the casing and the tab on the front ?

 That could be why your having trouble with it.

 Peete.


----------



## bundee1

no this is the alps pot from Lawrence that is recommended. Mine has more metal on the front than the one in your pics. Yours has exposed plastic on either side of the knob making it easier to fit.


----------



## bundee1

the pot that I got from Lawrence didn't have any pins cut off.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_no this is the alps pot from Lawrence that is recommended. Mine has more metal on the front than the one in your pics. Yours has exposed plastic on either side of the knob making it easier to fit._

 

That would explain it. I guess it's getting harder to source.

 Peete.


----------



## Syu

I got my HDAM today (thanks for Currawong's great guide). Then I soldered the earth wire of HDAM to the RCA ground and snipped the unnecessary capacitors off - much better sound than I expected!

 Btw, are there any other basic (easy) mods?


----------



## DaMnEd

Yes, you can upgrade the four caps that power to the DAC and receiver:






 More mods:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/fra...-heart-370985/
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/zer...-h-amp-370969/


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Syu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got my HDAM today (thanks for Currawong's great guide). Then I soldered the earth wire of HDAM to the RCA ground and snipped the unnecessary capacitors off - much better sound than I expected!

 Btw, are there any other basic (easy) mods?_

 

That's as far as you can go without soldering. Beyond that, you're getting into pulling the Zero apart and replacing caps mostly.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's also quite interesting. I wanted to clarify what I originally wrote. The LD MKIII is still worlds better than the Zero's amp. BUT for a while (I'm spoiled what can I say) I'd use the MKIII for anything - games, movies, etc. If I had audio coming out of the computer it was going thru the LD. But now, with the Moon in there, I'm much happier using the Zero's amp for less demanding audio tasks like movies and games._

 

That's a fair clarification.

 I think I'm just somewhat surprised I don't perceive the LD 1+ as a huge sonic improvement over the Zero's LT1364's amp section, but rather as a much different sound signature. My expectations were the LD would blow the Zero's HPA out of the water.

 Pench suggested some uprade tubes, and I believe he's correct, after seeing how the LT1364's nicely woke up the Zero's amp compared to the stock NE5532's. I probably need to get into a tube SQ mindset after all these years of SS. I've only had the LD several days.

 Oh...this is in reference to listening using my K701's.


----------



## StratCat

re: channel imbalance -

 FWIW, I'm absolutely sure I hear it via the Zero's HPA using the stock pot. 

 But even tho sometimes I would occassionally *think* I *may* be hearing it when using the fixed line level OP when attempting to find it, I think it's psychology in this latter case! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 This is with music as the source signal.

 I do believe the best way to check this out in a listening test is with test tones, as was suggested (by Penchum?). 

 And yes, I really got to get off my butt and drop in the LC upgrade pot that's been sitting on my desk all week! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Edit: Credit using a test tone to Peete


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Getting the stock pot out was a pain for me but I eventually got it on the second try. It was my first soldering mod and took me 4 hours but others may have an easier time desoldering the pot._

 

Did you use a solder-sucker or braid?

 FWIW, for any future component boardwork you may consider if there's a way to cut the part free on the component side of the board using small dikes (not likely with the pot, tho, I suspect), then easily removing the device's leads from the thru-hole, and finally sucking the whole clean of any remaining solder.

 By this technique, I mean to intentional destroy the component in order to more easily remove the component's leads with the least danger to the board.

_"Sacrifice the component and save the board"_ is a well worn industry cliche' that works well (when feasible). This technique works very well with soldered-in DIP chips vs attempting to free them via solder-sucking, prying, repeat, etc., ad nauseum.

 Just an idea for the future if you're interested.

 Oh, congratulations. A first try soldering experience R & R' ing a flush mounted 6P pot on a pretty cheaply fabbed board is a pretty good accomplishment, IMHO. You could've done far worse.


----------



## shampoosuicide

I see 3 different LT1364 listed on the LT site: LT1364CN8#PBF, LT1364CS8, LT1364CS8#PBF. Which one should I get?

 Also, just two are needed to replace the stock 2 x NE5532P correct?

 With regard to the DAC section, what would be the difference between replacing my single OPA627AU, with say, 2 x OPA267BP on a single-to-dual adapter? In fact, what is the difference between using 1 x dual vs. 2 x single?


----------



## bundee1

Shampoosuicide, you want these:
 LT1364CN8#PBF

 As for the OPA267, I dont know but I dont think it matters. 

 Stratcat, I used both but the solder sucker is more effective. I only have the supergarbage Ratshack desoldering braid. 
 I was thisclose to cutting the legs off of the stock pot but turning up the temp on the iron after reflowing some solder on it helped me clear the hole. 


 Oh uh mods can we get rid of Andrea?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Asylum years* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oddly enough, I hear no interest in what I consider to be the best of audio-gd's lineup of discrete opamps, the Sun V2 (but I've not tried the Moon).


 That said, some excellent opamps like the AD8599 (which is fine for +/-15V) and the AD8022 (only fine for up to +/-12V) should be taken advantage of by you Zero users, especially as the Zero has 3 opamp sockets in total. Trust me, they both sound better than the LT1364._

 

Here we go with the opamp recommendations again for an amp that isn't the Zero.......trust Andrea....that's a good one.....

 Sings the praises of the SUN V2 here....trashes it elsewhere......the BS continues.....

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

All this advice has what to do with a Zero Andrea ? Precisely.....nothing...

 Peete.


----------



## StratCat

ShampooSuicide -

 To address your three concerns:

 - _Bundee1_ set you right: You want a CN8 variety LT1364. There are several CN8 varieties available (tho not all are displayd on the website sample program area).

 - LT1364CN8 is a direct form fit and function drop-in replacement for the Zero's NE5532. As you surmised, you will need two for the headamp...one for each NE5532.

 AU is the suffix for the SMT variety OPA627 and BP is the suffix for the DIP variety OPA627. I don't know what you currently have, but if you think you have a single AU OPA627 in your DAC section you in all likelyhood have two single 627AU's on an adaptor acting as a dual: One 627 on the top side of the adaptor and another on the underside of the adaptor.

 BB OPA627's are all singles (AFAIK). All three op-amps in the Zero are duals. 

 So,

 - You'll need two single 627's on a single-to-dual adaptor to replace any Zero op-amp with a 627, whether in the DAC or Amp.

 HTH


----------



## shampoosuicide

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ShampooSuicide -

 To address your three concerns:

 - Bundee1 set you right: You want a CN8 variety LT1364. There are several CN8 varieties available (tho not all are displayd on the website sample program area).

 - LT1364CN8 is a direct form fit and function drop-in replacement for the Zero's NE5532. As you surmised, you will need two for the headamp...one for each NE5532.

 AU is the suffix for the SMT variety OPA627 and BP is the suffix for the DIP variety OPA627. I don't know what you currently have, but if you think you have a single AU OPA627 in your DAC section you in all likelyhood have two single 627AU's on an adaptor acting as a dual: One 627 on the top side of the adaptor and another on the underside of the adaptor.

 BB OPA627's are all singles (AFAIK). All three op-amps in the Zero are duals. 

 So,

 - You'll need two single 627's on a single-to-dual adaptor to replace any Zero op-amp with a 627, whether in the DAC or Amp.

 HTH_

 

Ah, thanks for setting that straight StratCat!


----------



## ccschua

The snippit is 22p.

 The decoupling cap at the RCA is it 22pF or 220pF. I saw that Lampi put the value as 220pF instead of 22pF. He must have made a mistake.

 "The RCA sockets before removing and their treble killing brown 220p caps "




 rgds


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All this advice has what to do with a Zero Andrea ? Precisely.....nothing...

 Peete._

 

X2 on that PP!! I'll come back and post after the trash has been taken out.


----------



## taso89

Please come back once you have a Zero andrea, until then it's the asylum for you


----------



## shampoosuicide

This is what I've got in my Zero. Does it look quite right? How does one identify a fake opamp?

 Btw, this is the stock opamp, came shipped from the factory like this.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

That's the AU package on a slightly different adapter. That adapter is fine.

 Tough to say for sure if it's for real or a fake without looking up the naming convention against TI data sheets. Odds are in your favor they are the real deal. The higher cost BP's had/have lots of fakes floating around.

 How does it sound to you ?

 Peete.


----------



## shampoosuicide

My setup looks like this: iMac > Zero, via optical out (OPA267AU DAC NE5532P Headamp) > Sennheiser HD595

 It's quite veiled and muddy (loose bass) at the moment, though I have some confidence it will get better with burn-in. The highs have definitely been tamed, though not necessarily in a good way. It sounds a bit like the upper frequencies have been shaved off. It's given my 595 much needed bass presence and weight, though. Details are excellent, I'm hearing new details in songs. Instruments sound better defined and nuanced. Soundstage is every so slightly larger. Overall, songs sound more full-bodied. It's a got a very tube-like sound.

 Despite the downsides, I'm very, very pleased with the Zero at the moment.


----------



## isao2k8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shampoosuicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's quite veiled and muddy (loose bass) at the moment, though I have some confidence it will get better with burn-in._

 

I had had the same impression at first, but the cap snipping mod gave excellent clarity to my Zero. Try it if you prefer.


----------



## khaller

Anyone want to buy a brand-new upgraded Zero (OPA267s in the DAC), all cabling, the Xitel MD-Port USB to optical unit, with the yet uninstalled Earth HDAM module, 2 CMC RCAs, silver wire, and the 10cm extension? I have checked to make sure the Zero unit works (for less than 2 minutes), and it works perfectly, but decided that it's just too much money for me to afford right now. I'm a student and all. I also ordered two LT1364s last week, but they haven't arrived. I can include these as well as soon as they arrive. I can sell everything for $200 (USPS priority shipping included). I paid $153 USD for the Zero and $54 for the HDAM module. I'd accept Paypal only and can ship from New York within US only. 

 Mods: sorry for posting this here but I don't have access to the sales thread yet and I thought I'd offer it here before I go to eBay.


----------



## shampoosuicide

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *isao2k8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had had the same impression at first, but the cap snipping mod gave excellent clarity to my Zero. Try it if you prefer._

 

Thanks for the suggestion, isao. What exactly is the cap snipping mod? I searched the thread for cap snipping, and couldn't come up with anything substantial.

 Also, did the veil/muddy sound go away with burn-in?


----------



## isao2k8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shampoosuicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the suggestion, isao. What exactly is the cap snipping mod? I searched the thread for cap snipping, and couldn't come up with anything substantial.

 Also, did the veil/muddy sound go away with burn-in?_

 

It's mentioned in the Currawong's guide.
Introduction to the Zero DAC and Headphone amplifier. - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

 I'm not sure about the burn-in effect because my Zero is 3 days old yet


----------



## MasZakrY

Was "Andrea" not permanently banned before?


----------



## bundee1

Yes but apparently he is an obsessed loser who likes to sign up under different screen names and give out bad/hurtful advice. Anyone who signs up in this thread with less than 10 posts and starts recommending obscure opamps is probably Andrea.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

All anyone ever need know about Andrea......posted by none other than the Top Head Fi Admin here, Jude.....

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f11/at...3/#post3696043

 I would say he is permanently banned for 2 or 3 life times here.

 Just read it and see what kind of person he actually is.....

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Asylum years* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just take a look at how Penchum, under the alias (of a alias) "Stainless Steel Ranger" (which is quite clear a declaration...eh?) has been aggressing me in my threads on another forum...

 Like here, Tweakers' Asylum - opa-Sun V2 from audio-gd.com - Mule - October 25, 2008 at 14:19:54


 If you have brains & eyes of your own, you should see who is what at a glance._

 

Pathetic......time for a house cleaning to purge Head Fi of it's latest tick infestation.

 Peete.


----------



## MasZakrY

I got my LT1364's today and the highs are way mellowed out compared to the LM4562's but the bass is a little overpowering. Its as if I have the bass boost switch turned on or something.


----------



## bundee1

Hey Peete, Penchum or anyone else who can answer: Do you think I should grind or shave the screw holes on the headamp board to relieve some pressure on the volume pot? Or am I paranoid? 

 The cable guy came today to install a new box and I had to move my speakers. Now I dont know if I have an imbalance in the other direction. The channel isnt cutting out but maybe Im imagining things and I need to focus on my speaker positioning again. 

 Would a bad solder joint cause one channel to be a tiny bit louder than the other?


----------



## bundee1

Eh I resoldered all the joints anyway, reseated the speakers, and filed a few millimeters off of the screwholes so everthing fits a little better and sounds better. 

 I think Ive reached a stage of burn in (120hrs on the HDAM and 200hrs on the LT1364s), plus the pot upgrade, where I can be happy with the sound. 

 Very sweet with vocals, bass is tight and instruments have space and a wide soundstage in which to play. 

 I will be ordering one of Peete's kits soon enough to take this to the next level.


----------



## MadMan007

...for five minutes.

 Got my Zero today. Opened it up and inspected it for any obvious defects or backwards opamps. Hooked it up to my Squeezebox v3 through digital coax, turned everything on and it seemed fine. Played a few familiar songs and thought it sounded nice, a little more full and cohesive than he SB3 analog outs but didn't do a real A/B test. I placed the SB3 on top of the Zero. Mid way through the second song some static started up on the left channel 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and got worse. I touched the unit and the static went away for a moment, came back, tapped the left side gently and it went away then it kept getting worse. I thought it might be interference from the SB3 so I lifted it up and repositioned it, again this cleaned it up temporarily. I stopped it and made sure everything was hooked up ok and noticed I hadn't inserted the Zero's power plug all the way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 although it must have been making contact since it had power.

 Powered everything back up and when switching from optical to coax there was a pop from the speakers when the protection relay switched. Pressing the preamp button does the same thing. Playback is messed up, it sounds distant, quiet and hollow from the right channel and the left channel barely plays at all. All the same things (popping, SQ) happen through the headphone jack too. There's a good deal of static when turning the headphone volume knob. All the same symptoms using optical or coax input. The LEDs on the headphone section seem to indicate some problem but I don't know what, when I turn the headphone volume knob even with preamp off and no source one of the LEDs fades out then coms back. 

 So aside from a bad opamp what else might be the problem? One guess I had is that there is/was a grounding issue, based on the fact that touching the case cleared the static initially and the power socket wasn't fully seated, plus the fact that moving the SB3 off the chasss cleared the static once. One other thing is the SB3 only has a 2-prong adaptor and isn't grounded and I used coax for the connection, might that have caused a grounding issue? It seems silly to me but *should I not use the coax connection in the future?* I'll likely want to have two sources hooked up so that would be a downer for me.

 Thankfully everything else is ok, no damage to other components. But now I'm stuck with not knowing what to do. I will contact the seller in a moment here but I'd like some ideas from you guys. I don't really like the idea of spending $20 on an opamp as a guess if it would cost me that much in shipping for a replacement unit if there's some deeper grounding or other problem and the new opamp might get hosed, I might get a HDAM later but again wouldn't want to risk damaging it.

*Sorry for the long post!* but I wanted to put it all out there to figure this out. I have not yet requested LT1364 samples for the headphone section so I could request those along with a sample that would be appropriate for the DAC to do a free test, *what Linear Tech opamp should I request for the DAC?* I'm handy with a multimeter and soldering iron but I don't know what to test or try. *Overall, any ideas of what I can check?*


----------



## Currawong

Are you using a grounded power plug with the Zero? I need to experiment with this myself today, as when I plugged my Zero back in with a 2-pin plug all I got was a loud hum if the HP amp is plugged in.


----------



## MadMan007

Yes. I'm hoping that someone else who has had a similar issue comes in and says there's an easy fix or at least knows what it is.


----------



## shampoosuicide

Does the capacitor mod (snipping off the brown caps connected to output RCA) impede the sound in any way?

 I understand it's supposed to open up the top end, but does it have any downsides?


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shampoosuicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does the capacitor mod (snipping off the brown caps connected to output RCA) impede the sound in any way?

 I understand it's supposed to open up the top end, but does it have any downsides?_

 

The theory is that the caps were put in their to muffle noise (such as hiss). Maybe since the DAC is very cheap, they assumed that people would use poor sources with it. All they do, since they are absorbing and releasing small amounts of the audio signal is distort the sound, with the higher frequencies being the biggest victim. There's no downside to removing them though.


----------



## shampoosuicide

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The theory is that the caps were put in their to muffle noise (such as hiss). Maybe since the DAC is very cheap, they assumed that people would use poor sources with it. All they do, since they are absorbing and releasing small amounts of the audio signal is distort the sound, with the higher frequencies being the biggest victim. There's no downside to removing them though._

 

Thanks for clearing that up Curra. I am supposed to remove 4 caps in all, correct? 2 from the RCA output and 2 from the headamp/preamp section?

 Also, how do I remove the opamp?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Eh I resoldered all the joints anyway, reseated the speakers, and filed a few millimeters off of the screwholes so everthing fits a little better and sounds better. 

 I think Ive reached a stage of burn in (120hrs on the HDAM and 200hrs on the LT1364s), plus the pot upgrade, where I can be happy with the sound. 

 Very sweet with vocals, bass is tight and instruments have space and a wide soundstage in which to play. 

 I will be ordering one of Peete's kits soon enough to take this to the next level._

 

At 250 hours that HDAM will be giving you it's all B1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The SQ is still evolving at this point in time, so there is more to look froward to. 

 Great job on the slight adjustments needed to make that Alps integrate and behave !!!


 Peete.


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shampoosuicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, how do I remove the opamp?_

 

Plier (not a cutting plier!). Make sure you pull straight up otherwise you will bend the leads.

 Some do use fingers but I would advise against, ESD = puff, fried opamp, I would advise everyone playing around with the ZEROs internals to use a grounding strap, you can find them very cheap at RadioShack or any electronics store.


----------



## shampoosuicide

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Plier (not a cutting plier!). Make sure you pull straight up otherwise you will bend the leads.

 Some do use fingers but I would advise against, ESD = puff, fried opamp, I would advise everyone playing around with the ZEROs internals to use a grounding strap, you can find them very cheap at RadioShack or any electronics store._

 

Alright, thanks for the advice


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MadMan007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes. I'm hoping that someone else who has had a similar issue comes in and says there's an easy fix or at least knows what it is._

 

Hi Madman,

 Two things to check right away .....look at the volume pot on the H/Amp board and look for the thin solid wire that is soldered onto to the pot casing from the pcb.

 Here's a pic to help you out with that (please note the pot in the pic is the upgraded Alps)

http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/r...Groundwire.jpg

 Make sure that connection is solid. If that gnd wire is missing altogether add one.

 Make sure the opamps are fully seated in their sockets. 

 Another check is to pull both boards and look for untrimmed leads, shorts caused by sloppy clean up.....anything out of the ordinary like cold solder joints on the Vol pot, RCA outs, coax in, TOSlink receiver.

 Another possible cause is a bad cable (mains,coax,analog RCA's). It's highly unlikely you have a bad cable but it's worth investigating at least.
 Try the Zero in pure DAC mode with the H/Amp section unpowered (3 wire black connector near right edge of H/Amp board). If you don't have another amp to send that line level signal to then a stand alone DVD or CD player will be the next best thing. The H/Amp section will have to be powered up in this case. The idea is to check the Zero in a simple isolated signal chain, away from other components. 

 Another possibility is the outlets you have Zero plugged in to. Is the SB3 computer and Zero all on the same outlet ? If so separate the Zero from that outlet and power it from another outlet. The issues you are experiencing sound like grounding problems to me.

 I can think of a couple more suggestions to try but these should narrow down the culprit pretty quickly.

 Please post follow up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hope this helps to solve your problem.

 Peete.


----------



## MadMan007

Thanks for the suggestions. Out of that list the only thing left to try that I had not already is pulling the boards to check for bad solder joints, and pure DAC mode. I will try those. Since seeing a bad solder joint doesn't always happen should I just reflow all of them? Are there any components that are highly heat sensitive?

 I did try a different outlet but still on the same circuit breaker. Different circuit breaker is too silly to consider as a workaround. I did pull the opamps by hand :-/ but after touching the Zero chassis. I've never fried a component from ESD in over ten years of working with computer stuff, are opamps hyper-sensitive to this or similar to other ICs?

 I will try just with an optical cable during this testing but I'm afraid that unless it's a bad solder joint the damage has already been done because optical and coax do the same thing right now. The continuity of the coax cable is fine with no shorts, what other measurements should I take for it?


----------



## shampoosuicide

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *isao2k8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's mentioned in the Currawong's guide.
Introduction to the Zero DAC and Headphone amplifier. - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

 I'm not sure about the burn-in effect because my Zero is 3 days old yet
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I just tried the mod and wow! It's in-****in'-credible. The veil and mud/loose bass are gone, and the clarity and detail are excellent, and it's got good punch.


----------



## Clok

Is there a difference in SQ when running from motherboards optical out (Realtek) compared to a soundcards output (X-Fi)?
 PC - Zero - AMP - headphones


----------



## randomasdf

I bought my upgraded zero from eBay My World - wsz0304 and he skimped on the LT1364 chips, but does anyone else who bought from him know if he also skimped on the volume pot?


----------



## DaMnEd

As far as I know *wsz0304* never offered the pot upgrade (only Lawrence) or the LT1364, I've seen people ask in his listings, and the answer is no, no pot upgrade or LT1364, no such upgrades are mentioned in the item descriptions (upgraded version). Just the OPA627 in the DAC section.


----------



## randomasdf

Thanks for the quick reply
 Anyway, how I can buy the correct pot? (And how do I get in contact with lawrence ><)


----------



## DaMnEd

Introduction to the Zero DAC and Headphone amplifier. - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio
  Quote:


 lawrencechanbig ((%)) msn.com 
 

You will have to do the solder job or have someone do it for you.


----------



## Seamless Sounds

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clok* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there a difference in SQ when running from motherboards optical out (Realtek) compared to a soundcards output (X-Fi)?
 PC - Zero - AMP - headphones_

 

Whether you use your soundcard or through the MB optical out, they still transmit digital data (0's and 1's). It's the DAC's (Zero) job to convert this digital data into clean analog signal. You should bypass your system's DAC and let Zero process it. That said, I don't believe there will be a difference in SQ.


----------



## randomasdf

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Introduction to the Zero DAC and Headphone amplifier. - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio


 You will have to do the solder job or have someone do it for you._

 

Thanks, 
 And as for the soldering job, I should be fine =D


----------



## grkn

I have a problem...

 Got the earth HDAM, everything fine.
 Replaced the headphone opamps with LT1364s from lawrence, very nice, until the Zero suddenly shut off the sound output whilst listening through the headamp, volume at 11 O'clock (the light in the middle back of the PCB shut off).

 What's going on? I managed to get it working again after waiting for 10 minutes. Tried running it without the lid (overheating?), but no change. Ofcourse, it shut down again some minutes afterwards 


 Cheers!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grkn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a problem...

 Got the earth HDAM, everything fine.
 Replaced the headphone opamps with LT1364s from lawrence, very nice, until the Zero suddenly shut off the sound output whilst listening through the headamp, volume at 11 O'clock (the light in the middle back of the PCB shut off).

 What's going on? I managed to get it working again after waiting for 10 minutes. Tried running it without the lid (overheating?), but no change. Ofcourse, it shut down again some minutes afterwards 


 Cheers!_

 


 Hi grkn,

 Sounds to me like your loosing the digital lock signal. Check your cables (digital) and connections and report back. Sometimes the driver in Foobar2000 won't unload and restarting the program will allow it to pass the signal (even though on my comp passing the signal via TOSlink the zero has a solid lock with the LED lit). That's not what your problem is I think...although some quirk of Foobar or Windows to be aware of.

 Report back...

 Peete.


----------



## glitch39

yep, I've experienced that loss of digitl lock. caused by mediocre Ic's. The zero's stock RCA's don't help either.

 I got better connections and SQ when I switched to BJC Coax. They use Belden plugs, I believe


----------



## MasZakrY

Amazing. The bloated bass that the LT1364 originally had is gone and sounds better then ever! Only racked up ~30 hours on the Zero so far


----------



## grkn

Tried to switch to optical input, used another playback program, didn't seem to help. Now it is working again, we'll see how long it lasts 

 Will try to not use the headphones for a bit and see if it has something to do with the LT1364s.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

The opamps have nothing to do with digital lock.....(shrugs shoulders).

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MasZakrY* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Amazing. The bloated bass that the LT1364 originally had is gone and sounds better then ever! Only racked up ~30 hours on the Zero so far 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yep....the LT1364's take some time to settle down. 

 Chugga lugga da root beer for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## cybertron

I keep hearing my Zero click on and off inside... it happens specifically when I turn on something that is like AC3 audio, 5.1, DTS, etc. My logitech speakers decode DTS and Dolby, but I currently have all audio going through to my headphones for now until I install my EMU 0404 and plug that into the Zero for use with a music program specifically (so I dont hear all my windows sounds, etc.) Does anyone know what that noise is? 

 Additionally, when you "burn in" you zero, or even when you just say... 30+ hours... does that mean it being turned on and with audio going in, or does it also need to be going out? I took a day trip out of state and left it going with no headphones plugged in, but with the headphone light on.. is that considered burn in? or do I need to have it playing through my cans?


----------



## BigTony

My Zero will arrive tomorrow (i've just had to pay import taxes) good job Thursday is my day off. I will check the amp out before i switch it on, don't want a repeat of the failures i've been reading about since i placed my order!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MasZakrY* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Amazing. The bloated bass that the LT1364 originally had is gone and sounds better then ever! Only racked up ~30 hours on the Zero so far 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Love that combination!

 As your Zero "matures", SQ will continue to improve and as the "earth" module matures, SQ improves as the module becomes more stable. 100-125 hours for the Zero, and 100-150 hours for the "earth" module. If you decide to do the "HDAM Cap mod" (I do recommend the cap mod for the earth module), the cap can take 200-250 hours to stabilize. It is worth the extra "maturing" hours, IMHO. PP and I have been testing the Burson Audio HDAM cap mod for months, and the advantages are real and audible.

 I should clarify one thing though: The cap mod I speak of, is the Burson Audio cap mod, which is a single cap soldered across pins 4 and 8 on the HDAM. Other combinations have been tried and posted, and they may or may not exceed the improvements of the single Burson Audio cap mod. I haven't tried nor tested the other combinations yet. This is all IMHO of course, and YMMV depending on the type and size of cap used. The "Mean Green" Russian PIO's (1uf 160V) work wonderfully in this application. So much so, that I'm going to cap mod my other two "earth" modules and get them "maturing" right away.


----------



## Baltozar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The cap mod I speak of, is the Burson Audio cap mod, which is a single cap soldered across pins 4 and 8 on the HDAM. Other combinations have been tried and posted, and they may or may not exceed the improvements of the single Burson Audio cap mod. I haven't tried nor tested the other combinations yet. This is all IMHO of course, and YMMV depending on the type and size of cap used. The "Mean Green" Russian PIO's (1uf 160V) work wonderfully in this application. So much so, that I'm going to cap mod my other two "earth" modules and get them "maturing" right away. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Unfortunately there is no 1uF K42-Y2's in my shop. Only 0.33uF and 0.22uF. I'll try 3 x 0.33 in parallel. Do you think it will be OK? Or must I use other combination of these caps?

 P.S. 3 weeks after purchasing passed and I haven't received Zero yet. Russian post is sooooo slow...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Baltozar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Unfortunately there is no 1uF K42-Y2's in my shop. Only 0.33uF and 0.22uF. I'll try 3 x 0.33 in parallel. Do you think it will be OK? Or must I use other combination of these caps?

 P.S. 3 weeks after purchasing passed and I haven't received Zero yet. Russian post is sooooo slow..._

 

HI B !!

 3 x .33uf should work just fine Baltozar. The only issue is the space the 3 caps take up. I have 2 cap pak'd Earth modules using 2 x .47uf + 2 x .22uf (all K42Y-2 160V) just now approaching the 300 hour mark ..they sound very similar in scope to the single 1uf cap. My observations thus far indicate the multi cap arrangement takes longer to form than the single. I suppose that makes sense. 

 Here's a pic of the pair,

http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/r...ak2HDAM003.jpg

 Another option is to use the 250V K42Y-2 cap. Again the size and weight of starts to border on ridiculous compared to the HDAM dimensions 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Do you have .047uf 160V K42Y-2's B ? They are getting hard to find. PM me please about that and possible other substitutes.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cybertron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I keep hearing my Zero click on and off inside... it happens specifically when I turn on something that is like AC3 audio, 5.1, DTS, etc. My logitech speakers decode DTS and Dolby, but I currently have all audio going through to my headphones for now until I install my EMU 0404 and plug that into the Zero for use with a music program specifically (so I dont hear all my windows sounds, etc.) Does anyone know what that noise is? 

 Additionally, when you "burn in" you zero, or even when you just say... 30+ hours... does that mean it being turned on and with audio going in, or does it also need to be going out? I took a day trip out of state and left it going with no headphones plugged in, but with the headphone light on.. is that considered burn in? or do I need to have it playing through my cans?_

 

Hi Cyber,

 Those clicks are the relays kicking in, disengaging the mechanical "mute" when a signal is sensed. Those sounds are completely normal.

 The only form of digital signal the Zero can process is regular 2 channel PCM . Don't send Dolby or DTS signals to it as it will simply refuse to process them.

 The burn in process, although contraversial at times, is an absolute reality for the Zero/HDAM....music is the best way to help that process along IMO. You can leave the headphones unplugged while piping a signal to the Zero. In order to burn in the H/Amp section it needs to be engaged (green LED lit) with a little volume applied ( 8:00 on the vol pot is fine ). Personally I like to have a load on the end of the amp output (headphones plugged in and running). That's just me.

 Hope that answers all your questions adequately.

 Peete.


----------



## cybertron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Zero will arrive tomorrow (i've just had to pay import taxes) good job Thursday is my day off. I will check the amp out before i switch it on, don't want a repeat of the failures i've been reading about since i placed my order!_

 

What failures are these? I didnt inspect mine and I've been running it for at least 96 hours w/o any issues, so should I check it out? and what am I looking for?


----------



## tonzaboy

Hi all! <Sorry for the crappy english>

 I just registered to this site to give my opinions on this Zero DAC. I ordered my Zero before the warning in the guide (Yarr, my typical luck) from Lawrence. Mine lasted for one song, The Eagles - Hotel California. I couldn't believe how good it sounded, once the second song from their album started my Zero started acting funny.
 There was this weird sound in the left channel, at first I thought it was the crappy optical cable that came with the Zero, but it wasn't. After awhile the left channel completely died if I was using the Preamp / headphone jack from the Zero. 

 Oh well, atleast my Zero didn't burn my sennheisers to kingdom come like what happened to another Head-Fi'er. The analog output works like a charm though, I just gotta get me a Meier-amp to connect it with. Will Corda Aria or Cantate benefit from the DAC in the Zero? I ordered Cantate to just be sure that I had a DAC if my Zero decides to blow up or something. My combo will be something along the lines of: X-Fi Xtremegamer Fatal1ty -> Zero DAC -> Cantate -> Sennheiser HD 650.


----------



## JohnnyLightOn

^ Sorry, I haven't read this whole thread - what is the warning from Lawrence, please?

 Thanks.


----------



## DaMnEd

Basically Lawrence is no longer recommended by most of us around here, he is messing up one way or the other one too many times. You should source the ZERO from other vendors like *wsz0304* on ebay, or Worldwide Chinese Headphone Amplifier Dealer


----------



## Baltozar

The Warning is that some people had problems with Zero Dac, purchased from Lawrence. Somebody even burned his headphones.

 BTW I ordered Zero from LC too. I will inspect PCB before turning Zero on. And use cheap headphones for hour or two.


----------



## JohnnyLightOn

OK, I understand better. Many thanks for the info.


----------



## dario

I come back from some time, the zero with 3 hdam is running without problems and I don't know if are the sennheiser 650 that are "opening" (I have I believe 150-200 hours on them) but from few days bass are really improved..really audible...

 P.s For the 650 I have heard big changes in the first 30-40 hours, and after 150 hours, I don't kow if they will improve in the next hours, now they are really wonderful...


----------



## powertoold

I just received my Zero amp from wsz0304.

 For the money, I think it's a good deal. 

 I have a question. With my very sensitive IEMs, I notice a slight hum on the right channel that bleeds just a little into the left. I suspect it is caused by the transformer. Would anyone please confirm that the side of the amp board closest to the transformer is for the right channel? If so, the transformer may be causing the hum.

 Has anyone tried to place a metal sheet in the middle of the transformer and amp board?

 Thanks,


----------



## DaMnEd

IEM's are very sensitive and low impedance, you may need an Impedance/Resistance Adapter if you want to connect them to the ZERO and hear no Humm.


----------



## JohnnyLightOn

dario, are you using the Zero's built-in headphone amp? (if I understand the use of 3 HDAMs, that would be two in the amp section and one in the dac section?)

 If so, how do you like the Zero's headphone amp with the HD650?


----------



## powertoold

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IEM's are very sensitive and low impedance, you may need an Impedance/Resistance Adapter if you want to connect them to the ZERO and hear no Humm._

 

I understand. I was just trying to get rid of the hum, which was mostly on the right channel.


----------



## DaMnEd

My guess is that you have more Humm on the right channel because of the imbalance the pot has at low volume (with such low impedance IEMs or cans). Even if you get rid of the Humm, my guess is that you will notice the imbalance "even more", this would be problematic.

 The adapter would take care of both situations in some sence, no Humm, and you would need to cranck the volume higher to get the same volume you had without adapter, but at that stage the imbalance would not be a problem with the default pot.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dario* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I come back from some time, the zero with 3 hdam is running without problems and I don't know if are the sennheiser 650 that are "opening" (I have I believe 150-200 hours on them) but from few days bass are really improved..really audible...

 P.s For the 650 I have heard big changes in the first 30-40 hours, and after 150 hours, I don't kow if they will improve in the next hours, now they are really wonderful..._

 

Hi Dario,

 Generally speaking the 650's take anywhere from 250 - 350 hours to give there all....the last 50 hours or so the changes are quite noticeable. They get even better from 200 hours on (maybe you'll be lucky and they will be fully burned in at 250). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## powertoold

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My guess is that you have more Humm on the right channel because of the imbalance the pot has at low volume (with such low impedance IEMs or cans). Even if you get rid of the Humm, my guess is that you will notice the imbalance "even more", this would be problematic.

 The adapter would take care of both situations in some sence, no Humm, and you would need to cranck the volume higher to get the same volume you had without adapter, but at that stage the imbalance would not be a problem with the default pot._

 

Sure, I just want to know if the transformer is causing any noise in my the Zero. I would rather fix it rather than use an attenuator to ignore the problem.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *powertoold* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sure, I just want to know if the transformer is causing any noise in my the Zero. I would rather fix it rather than use an attenuator to ignore the problem._

 

Transformer ? The IEM's low impedance IS the issue dude. DaMnEd is absolutely correct with his suggestion. If you want to use an IEM on an amp designed for higher impedance cans you have to either buy an adapter or change headphones.....you can change the transformer till the sky falls in you'll still have that hum. An adapter is a couple of bucks, new transformer is 25 -65US (Mercury Magnetics) for nothing, new headphones 250-450US......I think the adapter is the only choice that makes sense at this point unless you have a transformer fetish ( I know I do...R-Core's get me going 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) or have a spare 400US laying around for HD650's. 2 of those choices will solve the hum issue, one won't do anything except cost money.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Sennsay will be posting a small blurb plus pics ( I think) about his FrankenZERO installation experience in the FrankenZERO thread sometime in the next 24 hours for those that are interested.

 Peete.


----------



## helicopter34234

Where does everyone get their LT1364s? I got mine as a free sample (habit I picked up from doing grad school research), is that what others are doing or is this taboo? Hopefully I don't get buried in Linear Technology advertisements.


----------



## DaMnEd

digikey.com


----------



## powertoold

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Transformer ? The IEM's low impedance IS the issue dude. DaMnEd is absolutely correct with his suggestion. If you want to use an IEM on an amp designed for higher impedance cans you have to either buy an adapter or change headphones.....you can change the transformer till the sky falls in you'll still have that hum. An adapter is a couple of bucks, new transformer is 25 -65US (Mercury Magnetics) for nothing, new headphones 250-450US......I think the adapter is the only choice that makes sense at this point unless you have a transformer fetish ( I know I do...R-Core's get me going 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) or have a spare 400US laying around for HD650's. 2 of those choices will solve the hum issue, one won't do anything except cost money.

 Peete._

 

Thanks for your input. My initial thought was whether the EM field generated by the transformer may be causing a hum on my right channel. To answer that question indirectly, I asked whether the side of the amp board closest to the transformer controls the right channel. It's a simple yes or no answer. I'm sure people who have modded the amp know which side of the amp board corresponds to a channel. 

 I wasn't thinking of buying a new transformer at all.


----------



## BigTony

Ok, credit where its due.

 My amp has arrived, and I've poped the hood before powereing on.

 All the Opams are in the correct locations, including the HDAM unit, and there is a distinct smell of 'used' amp about it, meaning that I'd have to agree that this has been tested and for some time, prior to shipping.

 Now to turn it on (once I find a cable of course!)

 Doh ..RTFM..

 Ok everything sounds fine, will let it run for a day or so.


----------



## Currawong

I've updated my FAQ, btw, to distinguish the two "upgraded" versions available. I need to get some more 3-pin power plugs to test my theory that a lack of grounding is bad for the Zero -- causing hum and the HDAMs I'm currently burning in to get hotter than usual.


----------



## BigTony

Actually I was just about to ask if the Zero really wants a ground or not, I have both a grounded and un-grounded lead, but I went grounded first.


----------



## dario

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JohnnyLightOn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_dario, are you using the Zero's built-in headphone amp? (if I understand the use of 3 HDAMs, that would be two in the amp section and one in the dac section?)

 If so, how do you like the Zero's headphone amp with the HD650?_

 

Yes, I'm using the zero's amp, I have 1 earth in the dac and 2 sun in the amp, I think that the 2xsun are quite better than 2xlt1364, I don't know if they can do better with external power or similar (probably would be a better idea buy a dedicated amp), but I have them, they are better than lt1364, than I use them...when I have time I will leave the 2xlt1364 to re-compare them with the 2xsun....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think that zero's amp with the hd650 is a good combination, the volume is quite good to give ear damage in the long term, I would only get bigger soundstage and little more power for some songs and little better middle-low frequencies, but I have never tried standalone headphone amplifier to judge if using a standalone 200-300€ amp would be a real and ever justifiable cost...but I think in the near future I will buy one to try if there is a real and quite big step up..

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Dario,

 Generally speaking the 650's take anywhere from 250 - 350 hours to give there all....the last 50 hours or so the changes are quite noticeable. They get even better from 200 hours on (maybe you'll be lucky and they will be fully burned in at 250). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 


 I have read that, I hope they will improve with time, but every time I listen them is a real real pleasure....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 P.s Peete after my first hdam cap mod "failure" (I have soldered the cap to wrong pins...desoldered them and verified that would be all ok) I will re-try to do the mod in the near future with the real mod photos this time...


----------



## MadMan007

In order to further assess the problem I'm having I want to get some opamps for the DAC section to test. I haven't ordered anything yet and am looking to get LT1364's for the headphone section anyway, I'd like to try LT1469 in the DAC section. I think I can guess based on the LT1364 recommendation but *can someone please advise me which exact LT1469 version to get?* And will it be a direct plug-in to the DAC board socket without a brown-dog adaptor?...it is called a 'dual opamp' on the LT page. Linear Technology - LT1469-2 - Dual 200MHz, 30V/Î¼s 16-Bit Accurate AV â‰¥ 2 Op Amp LT1469-2

 If it cannot be used without an adaptor I'd like other suggestions of opamps that plug directly in to the socket, especially if they're from LT as well. The OPA2604 is one I know will work, if there's not a better alternative which exact version of that do I get? http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folder...t/opa2604.html


----------



## Myriad

X-Fi XtremeGamer -> Zero w/Lawrence HDAM DAC, LT1364 AMP -> Grado SR225

 I performed the cap snipping mod. It now sounds noticeably more forward (almost annoyingly so), and some of my songs give me headaches listening to them. Some of the smoothness it had also seems to have dissapeared. I did only bother snipping one leg of each of the caps, which, given my limited knowledge of circuits, should be fine (I made sure there was no contact between the snipped ends). Is this normal and I'm just not used to the highs?


----------



## DaMnEd

Well, the point of sniping those is to get the highs killed by the sniped caps, so, I'd say it is very normal, but you may not like the effect on your setup, that is a different issue.

 If you really dislike the effect id say solder the legs, you get the "old" sound back again.


----------



## Myriad

Yeah, definitely. I should've said I'm really more curious about the more forward, less smooth sound. Maybe it's just caused by my bad reaction to the highs, but it was mentioned a few pages ago that there aren't any negative side affects to the mod, so I just wanted the make sure I didn't bungle something. Though snipping two caps (didn't bother with the RCA caps since I don't use the output) really doesn't leave much room to mess anything up.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dario* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would only get bigger soundstage and little more power for some songs and little better middle-low frequencies, but I have never tried standalone headphone amplifier to judge if using a standalone 200-300€ amp would be a real and ever justifiable cost...but I think in the near future I will buy one to try if there is a real and quite big step up.._

 

If you're looking for improvement, down the track an amp is worth it. My take on it is, if I'd never heard better, I would've been happy with just the Zero and the MB Quarts I'd had for 10 years. I've heard some very high-end hi-fi systems, so I'm ruined for life unfortunately.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MadMan007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In order to further assess the problem I'm having I want to get some opamps for the DAC section to test. I haven't ordered anything yet and am looking to get LT1364's for the headphone section anyway, I'd like to try LT1469 in the DAC section. I think I can guess based on the LT1364 recommendation but *can someone please advise me which exact LT1469 version to get?* And will it be a direct plug-in to the DAC board socket without a brown-dog adaptor?...it is called a 'dual opamp' on the LT page. Linear Technology - LT1469-2 - Dual 200MHz, 30V/Î¼s 16-Bit Accurate AV â‰¥ 2 Op Amp LT1469-2

 If it cannot be used without an adaptor I'd like other suggestions of opamps that plug directly in to the socket, especially if they're from LT as well. The OPA2604 is one I know will work, if there's not a better alternative which exact version of that do I get? Precision Amplifiers - Wide Bandwidth - OPA2604 - TI.com_

 

I think it's the PDIP package you want. If the opamp is a "dual" you don't need an adaptor. If it's a "single" then you do. A "dual" opamp has two channels, which are used in the Zero (and much else) for left and right. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Myriad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_X-Fi XtremeGamer -> Zero w/Lawrence HDAM DAC, LT1364 AMP -> Grado SR225

 I performed the cap snipping mod. It now sounds noticeably more forward (almost annoyingly so), and some of my songs give me headaches listening to them. Some of the smoothness it had also seems to have dissapeared. I did only bother snipping one leg of each of the caps, which, given my limited knowledge of circuits, should be fine (I made sure there was no contact between the snipped ends). Is this normal and I'm just not used to the highs?_

 

You could well not be used to the highs. I haven't ever tried a pair of Grados, only read that they are very bright cans, so this isn't a surprise.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 You could well not be used to the highs. I haven't ever tried a pair of Grados, only read that they are very bright cans, so this isn't a surprise._

 

I'm pretty sure this is it. I actually wouldn't recommend that snip mod for Grados (at least the 80s and 225s - the only ones I've owned) because it puts the already bright headphones over the top (to my ears). It did a lot of good for my Senns though.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *powertoold* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for your input. My initial thought was whether the EM field generated by the transformer may be causing a hum on my right channel. To answer that question indirectly, I asked whether the side of the amp board closest to the transformer controls the right channel. It's a simple yes or no answer. I'm sure people who have modded the amp know which side of the amp board corresponds to a channel. 

 I wasn't thinking of buying a new transformer at all._

 

Sorry about that...I thought you were ignoring the answers you were being provided with, hence my terse response. I do have one question though...if you weren't going to buy a transformer that response you posted certainly leaned heavily in that direction.....did it not ?


 The EM field is pretty small...lots of people put their HDAM modules right next to it with no SQ issues. I have rested an HDAM (temporarily) on top of the toroid and also had no issues, so it's safe to say that isn't the problem...although new supplies of transformers could have an issue...My Zero is over 7 months old now so who knows if they are still built with the same OEM toroidal. They do look the same. Part no on mine is HB-100/1852. I could find no brand name on it. FWIW.

 Peete.


----------



## MadMan007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think it's the PDIP package you want. If the opamp is a "dual" you don't need an adaptor. If it's a "single" then you do. A "dual" opamp has two channels, which are used in the Zero (and much else) for left and right._

 

Yea I know the PDIP is the right package after looking at the schematics. The LT1364 is 'dual and quad' but there are two needed for the headphone amp section, while LT1469 is 'dual' I guess if hte OP had shown a picture of something other than OPA627 in a brown dog I'd know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



 OK before posting that I've gone through schematics on the various opamps, OPA627 schematics only show a single diode (? diode symbol at least) within the opamp package while the LTs show two and based on the pinouts of the LT1469 versus the OPA2604 the former should plug right in. *edit * There are two 8-pin PDIP LT1469's: LT1469IN8#PBF and LT1469CN8#PBF the 'C' and 'N' are different. I'm not sure what that means, going by the LT1364 the 'C' would be the correct one but can someone verify that?* *edit2: ha, ok I keep answering my own questions. C= commercial I = industrial and they refer to temperature ratings as seen in Section IV here: http://www.linear.com/purchase/ordering_info.pdf

 I'm still not sure why the DAC uses one dual opamp and the HA uses two but maybe that's just up to the circuit topology or output requirements of the HA.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MasZakrY* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Amazing. The bloated bass that the LT1364 originally had is gone and sounds better then ever! Only racked up ~30 hours on the Zero so far 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I swear, I never believed in semiconductor burn-in 'till I upgraded my Zero's HPA from the stock NE5532's to LT1364's. Too many of us have independantly had the same sonic experience for this to be a coincedence, IMHO. Or, we all go thru the same psychoacoustic adaptation to the new chips; I might give it that. 

 But either way, *something* of similar perception amongst us definitely occurs: Bass becomes more solid and articulate with better imaging; upper mids and highs develop clarity and resolution, resulting in a slight increase in timbre and detail, and the mids and highs become less "decongested" for lack of better words. Pretty wild experience, and I don't know how to explain nor account for it.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *helicopter34234* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where does everyone get their LT1364s? I got mine as a free sample (habit I picked up from doing grad school research), is that what others are doing or is this taboo? Hopefully I don't get buried in Linear Technology advertisements._

 

Quite a few peeps have gone the sample route...nothing taboo about that I'm aware of. I went thru Newark piggy-backing another order I was doing and didn't want to wait on samples (LT1341's were 4 bux/ea, IIRC).

 Whatever works for you.


----------



## StratCat

Just thought I'd share something I found after some poking around, and will include in my upcoming Newark order:

A Vpot knob upgrade

 I mean, comon, two bux? How could I resist?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just thought I'd share something I found after some poking around, and will include in my upcoming Newark order:

A Vpot knob upgrade

 I mean, comon, two bux? How could I resist? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

For 2 bucks that's a steal....and it's RoHs compliant (LOL). Solid Aluminum ? Great deal....what's the catch ....5 bucks for shipping ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 Good find SC !!!

 On another note.............................................. ............................

 EDIT: See Sennsay's latest post for the word !!

 Peete.


----------



## BigTony

Just thought i'd float this comment: my zero runs fairly cool, its grounded (i.e. 3 pin plug) and doesn't get hot, but the unit has a slght hum. I'm running HDAM in DAC and op's in the h/a. Must say its sounding great, been running 24 hours.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just thought i'd float this comment: my zero runs fairly cool, its grounded (i.e. 3 pin plug) and doesn't get hot, but the unit has a slght hum. I'm running HDAM in DAC and op's in the h/a. Must say its sounding great, been running 24 hours._

 

Hi Tony,

 That's most likely mechanical hum coming from the transformer (running at 240 V).

 Peete.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For 2 bucks that's a steal....and it's RoHs compliant (LOL). Solid Aluminum ? Great deal....what's the catch ....5 bucks for shipping ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 Good find SC !!!

 On another note.............................................. ............................

 Sennsay posted his Frankie guide in the Mod thread....for those interested.

 Peete._

 

Actually, the post is here: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/fra...ml#post4931453

 S-Man


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Thanks S-Man...wonderful work as always.....I wish I could get my bypass caps to look as good as yours do.......green cap envy LOL.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## BigTony

Well i've now hooked the zero up to my main rig, and its pretty decent out of lne out, seems more low end punch.
 One downside, its humming/buzzing, quite audibly, how can i cure this? or will it quieten down over time.

 Just to be clear, the noise is audible from 12 foot away, much much louder than when i first turned it on, and no where near quiet enough to use in my rack; it make more noise than my skytv hdd, can't use it


----------



## Currawong

Tried tightening the nut holding the transformer? I remember someone else having this problem but I can't remember how they fixed it.


----------



## isao2k8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well i've now hooked the zero up to my main rig, and its pretty decent out of lne out, seems more low end punch.
 One downside, its humming/buzzing, quite audibly, how can i cure this? or will it quieten down over time.

 Just to be clear, the noise is audible from 12 foot away, much much louder than when i first turned it on, and no where near quiet enough to use in my rack; it make more noise than my skytv hdd, can't use it_

 

I felt some hum noise too. Then it disappeared after I removed and inserted the power cable of the H/Amp board a few times.


----------



## Clok

2x Dual to Mono Opamp PCB OPA2604 NE5532 LM358 > OPA627 - eBay (item 360092665039 end time Nov-25-08 10:41:22 PST)

 Is that the adapter for two OPA627's?
 And from whom I should buy these opamps and the adapter?
 Ty.


----------



## BigTony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tried tightening the nut holding the transformer? I remember someone else having this problem but I can't remember how they fixed it._

 

I've tightend the nut , to be honest it was pretty solid. Tightened every screw and pushed home every cable. Still noisey, i guess its the transformer, going to run it tonight (but only 10 min in and the buzz is annoying me) and send an e-mail regarding a new transformer , can't live with the noise, in every quiet phase in thr music, 'buzzzzzzzzzz'. In fact, i can't stand it already.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've tightend the nut , to be honest it was pretty solid. Tightened every screw and pushed home every cable. Still noisey, i guess its the transformer, going to run it tonight (but only 10 min in and the buzz is annoying me) and send an e-mail regarding a new transformer , can't live with the noise, in every quiet phase in thr music, 'buzzzzzzzzzz'. In fact, i can't stand it already._

 

If the new transformer isn't an option...try a step down device to take the voltage from 240 to 120. 

 I know it's not an ideal solution but it should make your Zero quiet as a mouse. Make sure you get this device from a local shop so you can return it if this solution should fail to work. 

 Another option is sourcing your own transformer in the UK built for 120/240 60/50 hz. I believe a secondary of +25 0 -25 , 9 V x 2 should do the job perfectly...it's ok to have the 9V lines a little higher rating at 12V each. Don't go below 9V though. The data sheets on the 2 voltage regulators (Digital low voltage sections) specify a +4 V above fixed for optimum function. Meaning the 3.3 V line needs 7.3V min from the transformer secondary and the 5 V line needs 9V min. 

 The transformer should be rated for 100VA. 100VA is stock. If you intend to use HDAMs that 100VA rating is essential IMO.

 Hope you find a solution that suits the situation BT.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clok* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_2x Dual to Mono Opamp PCB OPA2604 NE5532 LM358 > OPA627 - eBay (item 360092665039 end time Nov-25-08 10:41:22 PST)

 Is that the adapter for two OPA627's?
 And from whom I should buy these opamps and the adapter?
 Ty._

 

Yes...that supplier is also well regarded as a source for genuine OPA627BP's and AU's...the adapter you've specified is for BP chips only (DIP8).

 I bought my 627's from this very vendor last spring.

 Peete.


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well i've now hooked the zero up to my main rig, and its pretty decent out of lne out, seems more low end punch.
 One downside, its humming/buzzing, quite audibly, how can i cure this? or will it quieten down over time.

 Just to be clear, the noise is audible from 12 foot away, much much louder than when i first turned it on, and no where near quiet enough to use in my rack; it make more noise than my skytv hdd, can't use it_

 


 Have you tried the foam trick? http://www.head-fi.org/forums/4654605-post5633.html


----------



## MasZakrY

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just thought I'd share something I found after some poking around, and will include in my upcoming Newark order:

A Vpot knob upgrade

 I mean, comon, two bux? How could I resist? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Any word on cost of shipping? It won't show shipping cost until I enter my CC.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm pretty sure this is it. I actually wouldn't recommend that snip mod for Grados (at least the 80s and 225s - the only ones I've owned) because it puts the already bright headphones over the top (to my ears). It did a lot of good for my Senns though._

 

Hiya ScottieB, there is a way that could be tried here, and that is find some quality, say WIMA, 22-47pF MKP caps (Welborne Labs have them), or polystyrene caps and replace the crappy ceramics that are there. This, as opposed to just chopping them out and affecting the highs of some headphones. The WIMAs sound very good indeed, as I have a pair of them around the op-amp socket where OPA Moon resides. Anyone done this yet? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 S-Man


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MasZakrY* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any word on cost of shipping? It won't show shipping cost until I enter my CC._

 

When you "proceed to checkout" with your cart there is a "freight estimator" link before you order, but yeah, it shows shipping options and pricing by weight but is not a hard quote for your specific order. I see you're in Toronto, so you may want to just call the 800 number on the website.

 My last several small orders of op-amps and small componenets has been ~5 bux from South Carolina to Chicago via UPS gound, and arrived in two days. I do use my old personal corporate name for my home delievery...no idea if that matters. They also have a free will-call here in Chicago for next morning pick-up, which of course doesn't help you. I never am concearned with shipping at work since it's all done via purchase order.

 I really suggest calling them via the 800 number, especially seeing as you're out-of-country.

 Oh, one caveat: I just found this knob while poking around the website during my last order. Until I get it in-house this week, I can't absolutely ascertain it is correct for the Zero. One never knows if there's any errors in P/N's, descriptions, or the datasheets. 

 I will report here when I receive the item, tho.

_Edit:_ I'm completing and submitting the shopping cart with the knob tommorow (Sunday). I'll try to pay more attention to the process. IIRC, I'm pretty sure the website estimates shipping before you finalize the order and send it off for good. I'll let you know.


----------



## | Scorpio |

I received my Zero a couple of days ago, and I'm extremely impressed so far. Of course, it's just my luck that Lawrence decides to put a fully upgraded unit on ebay a few days after I receive mine. Oh well, I doubt that I'd even notice that large of a difference anyways. All in all, I'm very satisfied.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *| Scorpio |* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I received my Zero a couple of days ago, and I'm extremely impressed so far. Of course, it's just my luck that Lawrence decides to put a fully upgraded unit on ebay a few days after I receive mine. Oh well, I doubt that I'd even notice that large of a difference anyways. All in all, I'm very satisfied._

 

Hrm…interesting that he's returned to listing Zeros on eBay because I prefer eBay transactions vs. an email + PayPal invoice combo since I believe a seller has more incentive to provide superior service when their eBay rep and feedback are at stake. I wonder if his return to Zero eBay listing had anything to do with some of the recent QC issues we’ve seen from him.

 It’s also interesting that he now lists the upgraded Zero as a bid price which includes flat rate shipping. My understanding is the eBay transactional fee is based on the bid price, so he now would incur a higher fee per like sale. I suppose it might build some consumer confidence, though, knowing the entire purchase cost, including shipping, is now a disputable amount if any issues were to arise.

 I’d also be interesting to see if he mounts the HDAM, or just adds it to the package as a user installed upgrade. I’d be really interested in some ideas for a more OEM-like mounting arrangement, rather than the kludges we’ve been coming up with for the most part; No offense, of course, to my fellow kludgers! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Perhaps something using standoffs? The mounting issue is about the only thing that’s held me off from buying an HDAM since I often use my Zero in a semi-portable fashion around the house, dragging it from room-to-room, with my laptop.

 Oh well…just some random stream-of-consciousness thoughts...


----------



## | Scorpio |

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hrm…interesting that he's returned to listing Zeros on eBay because *I prefer eBay transactions vs. an email + PayPal invoice combo* since I believe a seller has more incentive to provide superior service when their eBay rep and feedback are at stake. I wonder if his return to Zero eBay listing had anything to do with some of the recent QC issues we’ve seen from him._

 

Which is the exact same reason I bought from wsc instead of Lawrence.


----------



## BigTony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you tried the foam trick? http://www.head-fi.org/forums/4654605-post5633.html_

 

I've just tried the foam trick, the noise is quietened a little, but still too audible for comfort.
 It seems much louder in my room than out on the bench. Humm, damm humm! Guess i'll look for a us/uk transformer.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've just tried the foam trick, the noise is quietened a little, but still too audible for comfort.
 It seems much louder in my room than out on the bench. Humm, damm humm! Guess i'll look for a us/uk transformer._

 

Main filters maybe can solve your problem...... move Zero away from computer, Wifi devices.... don't plug it on the same AC outlet of computers, refrigerators... or any AC engine or eletromagnetic field generator... 
 If someone already mentioned that, sorry, but I haven't read through all your issue.


----------



## dacavalcante

Hi guys, now that FrankenZERO is done I'm thinking of giving it a better power and line source.......

 Do you guys know where I can buy budget mains cable, mains filter and Optic Cable (Zero like, cheap and great) ???



 Diego


----------



## Currawong

At some point, I plan to get an optical cable from here to see how is compares to my Optocoupler. They also do mini<->Toslink which is why i bookmarked them.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_At some point, I plan to get an optical cable from here to see how is compares to my Optocoupler. They also do mini<->Toslink which is why i bookmarked them._

 

Maybe worth trying.... did you saw any feedback about their cable ?


----------



## BigTony

Question about HDAM - how do you tell them apart? I e-mailed LC to ask which one was in the zero i bought, but his reply just said HDAM, not Sun Moon or Earth. Pretty impressed with the DAC HDAM performance , and can't help wonder what the otherd might sound like.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hrm…interesting that he's returned to listing Zeros on eBay because I prefer eBay transactions vs. an email + PayPal invoice combo since I believe a seller has more incentive to provide superior service when their eBay rep and feedback are at stake. I wonder if his return to Zero eBay listing had anything to do with some of the recent QC issues we’ve seen from him.

 It’s also interesting that he now lists the upgraded Zero as a bid price which includes flat rate shipping. My understanding is the eBay transactional fee is based on the bid price, so he now would incur a higher fee per like sale. I suppose it might build some consumer confidence, though, knowing the entire purchase cost, including shipping, is now a disputable amount if any issues were to arise._

 

Well, having recently sold some things on eBay, I can tell you they have recently changed their policies about shipping fees, and they are quite strict as far as what you are allowed to charge. Frankly, as an occasional seller, I think they are a bit crazy. I mean I get what they were trying to do, to benefit the buyers, but IMO they went a little too far. Just as an example, to sell ANY movie at all, you must offer media rate shipping at the MAX amount of $3. That's crazy to me because the shipping itself is near $3, but then you have to buy an envelope to put it in too... not to mention I prefer to use Priority Mail which starts at $4.80. Anyway my point is that they have put max's on what you as a seller can charge for shipping - and a big part of that, yes, was the fee eBay collects. But you're right, in a case like this it would (or should) make dispute easier to deal with.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Question about HDAM - how do you tell them apart? I e-mailed LC to ask which one was in the zero i bought, but his reply just said HDAM, not Sun Moon or Earth. Pretty impressed with the DAC HDAM performance , and can't help wonder what the otherd might sound like._

 

It is my understanding that Lawrence sells the "original" HDAM, which is basically a first-generation Earth unit. Since that one was released (and sold through external vendors), they have made a new Earth (the OPA Earth people talk about here), the Sun, the Sun v2 and the Moon. So, when people refer to "the HDAM" they usually mean the original. Then there are the OPA Earth, OPA Sun, and OPA Moon which you can get through Audio-GD (and I think that's the only way right now).


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Question about HDAM - how do you tell them apart? I e-mailed LC to ask which one was in the zero i bought, but his reply just said HDAM, not Sun Moon or Earth. Pretty impressed with the DAC HDAM performance , and can't help wonder what the otherd might sound like._

 

The one LC sells is V1 of HDAM Earth.


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

can't telephone the atmosphere.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, if I was looking to purchase one of these upgraded Zeros, where should I get it from? There are so many different available options, some cheaper than others but all claim 'upgrade' versions on ebay._

 

There isn't too much upgraded versions....
 Basically there's one with OPA627 (DAC section) and LT1364 (amp section)...
 Other better upgrade is HDAM Earth on DAC section instead of OPA627....

 The snip 22uf caps mod isn't done by any of them, you have to do yourself.

 Some people already did some modifications to their Zero besides those and are "upgrade" also, but it's not for sell....
 But PP made a kit that is to upgrade your Zero to something we call here FrankenZERO.... but this one is also not sold from any vendor, you have to DIY.... this upgrade is much worth, I did myself and I can tell, real good one. But you must have some skill with soldering or maybe ask for a technician to do it for you....... PP "sells" parts for the FrankenZERO upgrade kit he developed for a very little fee...


----------



## Currawong

dacavalcante: Not yet. Someone else linked the same page I did. They are cheap enough it's worth my while to pull the trigger on one.

 BigTony: LC only sells what Audio-gd calls the Earth, which is the original one. The Sun and Moon are new.


----------



## BigTony

Thanks Curra, one thing I've noticed while looking inside, the HDAM isn't grounded, or I can see it if it is. Does the HDAM need a ground, and if so which is the ground leg?


----------



## Currawong

The ones I have all have a ground wire attached. If yours doesn't, don't worry about it. If you want to ground it, I can take a picture of mine showing where the ground wire is attached so you can solder one on yourself.


----------



## Baltozar

Yesterday I received Zero with HDAM and LT1364 from Lawrence. From the very outset one channel in headamp didn't work. I recognized that one of LT1364 is dead.
 Unfortunately I have no opamps to check if the headamp works well.
 DAC pcb is OK, but one of the decoupling ELNA Silmic II 47uF is backward.
 I asked LC to return me money for LT1364, but he hasn't replied yet.

 Does someone have 1V DC on Output A in the right opamp and on Output B in the left opamp?


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_dacavalcante: Not yet. Someone else linked the same page I did. They are cheap enough it's worth my while to pull the trigger on one._

 

Yes, I agree with you, I'm already quoting them for a cheaper shipping method... because I want 1 meter of cable, which is $9.00, but shipping cost is $20.00 to Brazil.
 I asked them for including usps first class mail international as an option and they repied saying that they'll check the possibility to include this shipping method and get back to me soon....


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Baltozar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yesterday I received Zero with HDAM and LT1364 from Lawrence. From the very outset one channel in headamp didn't work. I recognized that one of LT1364 is dead.
 Unfortunately I have no opamps to check if the headamp works well.
 DAC pcb is OK, but one of the decoupling ELNA Silmic II 47uF is backward.
 I asked LC to return me money for LT1364, but he hasn't replied yet.

 Does someone have 1V DC on Output A in the right opamp and on Output B in the left opamp?



_

 

Hi Baltozar.....

 Bummer on the LT1364...was it in backwards ? Are you talking about the 2 decoupling (47uf 10V) caps on the H/Amp board ? If so that may be the reason the channel isn't working. Swap that cap around if you can and test it.

 I think it's safe to say Lawrence has blown his opportunity to supply reliable Zero's despite the added mods he provides.

 Buyer beware when it comes to LC now.....sadly. Something that could be easily corrected in QC....sigh.

 Let me know B,

 Peete.


----------



## powertoold

I highly recommend buying Zeros through wsz0304. He has excellent customer service and communication.


----------



## Baltozar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Baltozar.....

 Bummer on the LT1364...was it in backwards ? Are you talking about the 2 decoupling (47uf 10V) caps on the H/Amp board ? If so that may be the reason the channel isn't working. Swap that cap around if you can and test it.

 I think it's safe to say Lawrence has blown his opportunity to supply reliable Zero's despite the added mods he provides.

 Buyer beware when it comes to LC now.....sadly. Something that could be easily corrected in QC....sigh.

 Let me know B,

 Peete._

 

Hi Peete!

 No, opamp was not in backwards. It seems to me that it was dead before LC shipped it to me. Probably he didn't test it.

 I'm speaking about one of the 4 caps near the Dac Opamp socket. I think inverted polarity of this cap could only degrade SQ but not to burn Opamp. 
 There is no DC on the output and my speakers work with Zero DAC.

 Peete, could you or someone else look at the voltage of headamp opamps I asked before.

 One more question. What I must do if LC will not reply on my letter?
 I used e-mail+PayPal (not Ebay).

 I hope everything will be fine because it seems to me that problem is only in one opamp.


----------



## Baltozar

Just checked this cap:





 Yes it passes 40-50mV DC because of inverted polarity. I won't use Zero before resolser this cap.


----------



## bundee1

WSZ o304 is my boy! Even early he's been a stand up guy. 

 One more caveat:

 The Alps pot replacement Lawrence is selling now is a little too long for the PartsConnexion replacement knob mentioned at the beginning of the thread. I just installed it and 1/2 inch of shaft is still showing. If I get a dremel for 
 X-Mas Im going to try and cut a bit off.


----------



## MasZakrY

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *powertoold* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I highly recommend buying Zeros through wsz0304. He has excellent customer service and communication._

 

seconded! My Zero came with no issues other then having non upgraded opamps.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Baltozar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just checked this cap:





 Yes it passes 40-50mV DC because of inverted polarity. I won't use Zero before resolser this cap._

 

Hi B,

 I wonder if that should solve your problem ? Swap that cap around and test it again.....

 Something unrelated to your issue B.......

 My head phone jack cuts out from time to time when I jiggle the 1/4 in cable from the 650's in it. Something to look for....I guess I need to reflow the solder joints for it. I may just replace with a quality jack I have laying around..now where is that stereo jack.....sigh...(millions of parts all over the place). 

 I'll try and measure the pins you asked for B. I'm also dealing with a blown grid resistor in my big tube amp right now...just had it apart...yep fried 2 w 10 ohm resistor with others showing signs of discoloration (same type/value in 7 other locations) so I guess it's a good thing this one part went today. Damn line voltage here is too high...putting the transformers secondaries at to high a voltage...Sheesh..

 At least it's a cheap and easy fix. 

 I'll get you that measurement for the opamp pins you requested in a little bit B....

 Peete.

*EDIT*: Output B on left opamp is 0.89 V DC with output A on the right opamp 1.0 V DC.


----------



## DuClare

Yay, I finally got my Zero from LC, without the HDAM. They held it at customs for quite a while, and I got to pay 40% on top of the original price for taxes & customs & forwarding, grr. The Zero is great though! However, I was wondering if you know where to get a nicer (larger & heavier!) knob for it? The original one is quite light and sticks out due to the alps pot.


----------



## MasZakrY

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DuClare* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yay, I finally got my Zero from LC, without the HDAM. They held it at customs for quite a while, and I got to pay 40% on top of the original price for taxes & customs & forwarding, grr. The Zero is great though! However, I was wondering if you know where to get a nicer (larger & heavier!) knob for it? The original one is quite light and sticks out due to the alps pot. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

See if they have a Finland/euro site, but here is what I want to order:

Multicomp ElectricalMechanical|MC21025|Switch Knob | Newark Canada


----------



## YoNni22

I also ordered my Zero through wsz0304 on Ebay so I can recommend him. I bought the non upgraded version. I recommend that people use the buy it now option that includes free shipping and then use microsoft cash back to get 30% off.(I think the cash back is down to 25% now) I paid approximately $114 shipped after the cash back.


----------



## Currawong

If I had a dead op-amp, the simple solution would be to order some samples of one or another and that would solve the problem. I can't imagine any of the eBay sellers testing the ones they sell, at least more than briefly as their profit on them is probably very low.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MasZakrY* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_See if they have a Finland/euro site, but here is what I want to order:

Multicomp ElectricalMechanical|MC21025|Switch Knob | Newark Canada_

 

Hi -

 My order with the Newark replacement knob shipped out from South Carolina at 2:30A this morning (Tues) for my Chicago address. So, unless it stops by a local polling place to vote, I should have it tomorrow. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll let you guys know how it fits the stock pot shaft, and then that'll give me an excuse to R&R to the new ALPS pot (in-house), and try it there too

 Oh yeah, FWIW, the Newark site doesn't give a hard shipping cost when checking out. Weird. I did do the shipping estimate though (FedEx Ground), which came out to $6.31 USD for my combined order, and that was exactly the additional price my cc was charged.


----------



## MadMan007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've just tried the foam trick, the noise is quietened a little, but still too audible for comfort.
 It seems much louder in my room than out on the bench. Humm, damm humm! Guess i'll look for a us/uk transformer._

 

Did you put foam on the top and bottom of the transformer? The goal as you can imagine is to isolate the transformer from the chassis, putting foam undernath it only would still allow coil buzz to transmit through the bolt through the top of the transformer. Of course this still isn't going to eliminate coil buzz entirely because the transformer itself will still buzz, maybe some sound daming foam inside the case could help with that.


----------



## raekwonse

Could anyone help me? I just installed the Earth HDAM module into the DAC section of my Zero and when I turn it on I see smoke coming from the HDAM. That can't be a good sign.

 Did I just ruin my HDAM/Zero?


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *raekwonse* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Could anyone help me? I just installed the Earth HDAM module into the DAC section of my Zero and when I turn it on I see smoke coming from the HDAM. That can't be a good sign.

 Did I just ruin my HDAM/Zero?_

 

Sure you put it in the right way? Smoke is never a good sign...


----------



## raekwonse

Okay, I think I put it in the right way on the PCB but didn't line up the half circle correctly on the actual module itself. I fixed that. It's working now and it sounds pretty good. I hope I didn't permanently ruin the sound out of my HDAM though...


----------



## BigTony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MadMan007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you put foam on the top and bottom of the transformer? The goal as you can imagine is to isolate the transformer from the chassis, putting foam undernath it only would still allow coil buzz to transmit through the bolt through the top of the transformer. Of course this still isn't going to eliminate coil buzz entirely because the transformer itself will still buzz, maybe some sound daming foam inside the case could help with that._

 

I diddn't use foam on top of the transformer, but i'll try. I have some damping foam that i got to keep my pc quiet, hadn't tried that as i'm worried about heating, but maybe worth a try. i can hear the buzz even with cans on....


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Try dynamat (automotive sound deadening material par excellence) if you have some...thick rubber (1/8 in) works very well on top and bottom...Cut out the top piece of rubber to just a little larger than the round plate the nut and bolt hold down.

 Should really isolate the transformer but good from the chassis.

 Peete.


----------



## DuClare

Ordering from the shop in Canada would've been rather costly, as they charge an additional handling fee for small orders, and shipping a knob overseas would be overkill anyway. Google fails, and it took quite a while to find a good shop nearby. Finally I found something decent though — a shop called ELFA.

http://akari.serveftp.org/elfa1.jpg (diameter 25mm, height 16mm)
http://akari.serveftp.org/elfa2.jpg (22mm, 14mm)

 What do you think? The plain appearance of #2 seems to match the front panel, but on the other hand, perhaps the other knob would spice it up a little (the volume knob is THE thing you finger after all!) without being unreasonably odd.


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

attention


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Might be a dumb question, but if you plug both optical inputs into the Zero, what will happen? 

 I ask this because I'm trying to figure out how to plug the playstation 3 audio into this box._

 

The Zero only has one optical input, the other input is Coax/RCA.

 Anyway, if you want to connect your PS3 to the ZERO, just connect the optical-out in the PS3 to the optical-in on the ZERO.


----------



## Currawong

nauxolo: I'm not sure what you mean, as you can only plug one optical cable in at a time.


----------



## dacavalcante

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Zero only has one optical input, the other input is Coax/RCA.

 Anyway, if you want to connect your PS3 to the ZERO, just connect the optical-out in the PS3 to the optical-in on the ZERO._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_nauxolo: I'm not sure what you mean, as you can only plug one optical cable in at a time._

 

I guess he was trying to say "digital input".....

 And answering to his question.... you can have both connect..... 
 For example: Optical to your PS3 and Coaxial do your Computer......
 But you will only be able to use 1 at a time....


----------



## ooeric

interesting.


----------



## shampoosuicide

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Remember, the OPA627's in the DAC were BEST IMHO for output to another amp. If only using the Zero as your DAC and headphone amp, the LT1364 in the DAC and LT1469 or LT1361 in the headphone amp seemed best._

 

Could someone give me an idea on the sound signatures of the LT1364, LT1469, and LT1361?

 How does the OPA267 compare with the LT1364? I have a pair of LT1364 coming and intend to replace the OPA267 with one of them, as per Penchum's recommendation.


----------



## Currawong

Penchum's recommendation is to put the 1364s in the HP amp. They are a bit too clinical and boring for the DAC IMO. I stuck a pair in my LD MKV and though the sound was good, I just didn't feel like I was enjoying the music with them.


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

The defenseless yellow can't spare the strain.


----------



## bundee1

Lately that seller's quality has dropped considerably. Most people (myself included) recommend ebay seller wsz0304. His Zero only includes the upgraded dac chip and a usb to optical convertor but his units haven't had any failures reported here. 

 Good Luck!


----------



## Baltozar

Today I bought two pieces of NE5532 for cheap and installed them in headamp. I still need to resolder a cap near DAC.

 I'm new in headphone's world and Hi-Fi. I used HD650.

 Is it normal that I have a feeling that most of instruments and a singer are inside my head? Maybe it is little soundstage? Will it be much better after burn-in or buying better amp?


----------



## linuxworks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Baltozar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it normal that I have a feeling that most of instruments and a singer are inside my head?_

 

isn't this what crossfeed circuits are supposed to help fix?


----------



## linuxworks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Most people (myself included) recommend ebay seller wsz0304._

 

I did have good luck with this seller for another dac (a DTS/DD5.1 multichannel dac for my HTPC). I believe this seller does care and is an honest guy. shipping can be slow, though and I did lose one pkg in shipping (a resend, actually) but the seller took care of me.

 one lesson: never cheap out on shipping! go for the EMS shipping. its more expensive but what good is shipping if it gets banged up in transport or takes weeks longer than it should? EMS to the US takes about a week. but again, the seller sometimes sits on outgoing mail for a week, so don't expect it to ship the day after you placed your order.

 I would order from him again, though.


----------



## tubes

Hello all, just how good is the headphone section on the zero. I'm putting together a budget system for my brother so I gave him an old NAD receiver to use with his Goldring 150's and a DVD player, the NAD is horrible, thick as mud. I was thinking of getting him a Little Dot 1+ amp, would this be better than using the zero as both a dac and head amp? Thanks.

 Phill


----------



## DaMnEd

Most dedicated amps will be better than the ZERO amp, the amp on the ZERO is decent, but nothing special. I do not have a LD 1+, but I would say yes, should be better.


----------



## Baltozar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *linuxworks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_isn't this what crossfeed circuits are supposed to help fix?_

 

But it seems to me that people use their amps without crossfeed? Maybe I'm 
 wrong.


----------



## brady7

I recently acquired this dac/amp, mainly thanks to this review. I bought it from ebay seller wsz, no complaints, but I thought his "upgraded version" had OP627 Dac & LT1364 'phone (could've sworn I read somewhere in ebay comments that that was the case, but coincidentally he just answered someone else confirming that just the DAC opamp is upgraded).

 Anyway, should I replace 1 or both of the opamps, in light of what I've now read about the HDAM? (Amp is an Onix SP3/8 (38wpc tube integrated) powering Vandersteen 1cs. 'phones are Grado SR60.)

 & if so, how easy is it for someone with no experience with this sort of thing?

 + thanks for all the work/info here...


----------



## linuxworks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Baltozar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But it seems to me that people use their amps without crossfeed? Maybe I'm 
 wrong._

 

I'm hooked, fwiw. I tried one of tangent's easy to use kits and after I switched it ena/dis for a while, I liked having the option.

 I also discovered I would NOT lock it on or off (perm hardwire). some material benefits from it and some does not, so it really does need to be ena/dis selectable. I even like having it be remotely selectable.

 if you use a high-z version it can sit right between the source and the phones amp. but it does have insertion loss (dB wise) so you do need more gain in your amp than otherwise needed.

 but I would not build another amp without a xfeed board or option. I like it (at least having the option to switch it in).


----------



## randomasdf

I replaced the chips in my headphone section, and silly me, I accidentally put them in the wrong way. This resulted in a rather undesirable loud popping noise, followed with small amounts of smoke in the headphone section. It seems to work fine now, but can someone tell me what that was from, and if it damaged my zero?
 -edit-
 seems like one of the blue capactiator caps blew, should this be of major concern?


----------



## ooeric

snap crackly pop.. smells like nice burnt toast dont it? lol


----------



## StratCat

Re: Multicomp ElectricalMechanical|MC21025|Switch Knob | Newark Canada

 Just a quickie update:

 I got mine from Newark USA, and it's a pretty good fit aesthetically and physically. It fits the Zero's front panel knob recess indentation diameter just about perfectly. Depth offeset is pretty close, tho could use maybe 1/16th" (~1-2mm) more depth to fit deeper into the front panel recess in a perfect world. But that's really a very minor quibble most ppl wouldn't even notice. It fits and looks pretty darn close to OEM, IMHO. Aesthetically, it's a perfect match.

 There's a recessed set screw hole that may be visible dependant on the knob's rotation position, and the set screw needs to be really snugged down for a tight fit, since the Vpot's shaft is scored for a press-fit knob, not a slide on knob with a set screw like this one, and the knob can move few degrees perpendicular to the front panel unless fully tightened.

 But I am really being very highly critical and detailed here (since I didn't post pics). It looks pretty much OEM spec'd and OEM quality, TBH. I'm happy with it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'll try to get some pics up soon.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DuClare* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ordering from the shop in Canada would've been rather costly, as they charge an additional handling fee for small orders, and shipping a knob overseas would be overkill anyway. Google fails, and it took quite a while to find a good shop nearby. Finally I found something decent though — a shop called ELFA.

http://akari.serveftp.org/elfa1.jpg (diameter 25mm, height 16mm)
http://akari.serveftp.org/elfa2.jpg (22mm, 14mm)

 What do you think? The plain appearance of #2 seems to match the front panel, but on the other hand, perhaps the other knob would spice it up a little (the volume knob is THE thing you finger after all!) without being unreasonably odd._

 

I'll let you decide aesthtics, but I can say the original knob (28mm dia.) and the front panel's recessed indentation fits a 28mm diameter knob perfectly. Also, the original knob is 16mm deep, and that seems to be the perfect depth as well, since my 14mm replacement knob leaves a very slight gap; It fits flush with the front panel, but doesn't countersink fully into the front panel's recess, which would be ideal.

 Also, I swear that second knob you linked looks exactly like the one I ordered, and is also the same depth (14mm). 

Check It Out

 You may want to see if that same knob is available in a 28mm diameter as well as the 22mm (although a large purposeful gap between the front panel recess diameter and knob diameter might look good, I suppose). Most knob models come in a wide variety of diameters, and sometimes several depths, too, as well as several color choices.

 Just some random thoughts...


----------



## No Smoking

Recently I havent been keeping up to date with this thread so I was just wondering if the Lawrence "head-fi" deal was still available.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Baltozar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Today I bought two pieces of NE5532 for cheap and installed them in headamp. I still need to resolder a cap near DAC.

 I'm new in headphone's world and Hi-Fi. I used HD650.

 Is it normal that I have a feeling that most of instruments and a singer are inside my head? Maybe it is little soundstage? Will it be much better after burn-in or buying better amp?_

 

Well, that inside-your-head stuff is one of the componenets of soundstage. O.K., I guess more accurately, some may refer to it as "headstage", when it extends outside one's head.

 It's a function of both your cans AND your electronics, though more can dependant, IMHO. I'm not familiar with your HD650's, but some cans like my K701's have a large soundstage that seems to extend outside the phones and outside my head. I did not feel that outside-and-around-my-head feeling with some other phones, say my HD280Pro's, for instance. I don't recall that either with my HD595's, but my memory may not be perfectly accurate as I no longer own the HD595's.

 As for me, I had an amp (Total_Bithead) with acrossfeed option, and didn't particuliarly care for it. Like so much here, I'm sure it's a YMMV thing, and the only way to find out is to try it.

 FWIW, my LT1364's seemed to give a bit larger soundstage than the NE5532's once they were burned in. My LD 1+ amp gives a wider soundstage yet, than my LT1364 Zero. So electronics does matter too, tho I believe the soundstage inherent in a specific model of phones is more determinant of soundstage, given reasonable quality electronics; But yes, electronics do matter, too.

 I suggest giving the LT1364's a try when you get a chance. They have a slightly larger soundstage than the NE5532's (to my ear). They are a bit brighter with a more extended freq response than the NE5332's, too, which may work well to perk up the Senns. The LT1364's also have a deeper bass, but very controlled and articulate. 

 Give them some time to burn in.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tubes* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello all, just how good is the headphone section on the zero. I'm putting together a budget system for my brother so I gave him an old NAD receiver to use with his Goldring 150's and a DVD player, the NAD is horrible, thick as mud. I was thinking of getting him a Little Dot 1+ amp, would this be better than using the zero as both a dac and head amp? Thanks.

 Phill_

 

I have both an LD 1+ and a Zero. The LD 1+ amp is superior to the Zero's HPA, IMO. BUT...don't underestimate the positive impact a decent DAC can have on SQ vs driving an amp off an analog source.

 I'd prefer the Zero's DAC and it's LT1364 amp, to my LD 1+ coming off an analog soundcard, for instance. The Zero's DAC is pretty decent, again IMO, and the headphone's sensitvity and ease of drive will also come into play. Easily drivable cans will sound reasonably decent for a tight budget amp with easy to drive cans. I was very happy (for the money) with the Zero's HPA with my AT's, Grados, and Denons. It was when I got the K701's that I really felt the need for more amp (but was getting there none-the-less, even w/o the K701's).

 I guess I'm trying to say there's more than one variable here, with the DAC being an important consideration besides soley the amp capabilities.


----------



## DuClare

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll let you decide aesthtics, but I can say the original knob (28mm dia.) and the front panel's recessed indentation fits a 28mm diameter knob perfectly. Also, the original knob is 16mm deep, and that seems to be the perfect depth as well, since my 14mm replacement knob leaves a very slight gap; It fits flush with the front panel, but doesn't countersink fully into the front panel's recess, which would be ideal.

 Also, I swear that second knob you linked looks exactly like the one I ordered, and is also the same depth (14mm). 

Check It Out

 You may want to see if that same knob is available in a 28mm diameter as well as the 22mm (although a large purposeful gap between the front panel recess diameter and knob diameter might look good, I suppose). Most knob models come in a wide variety of diameters, and sometimes several depths, too, as well as several color choices.

 Just some random thoughts..._

 

In fact, I too would prefer 26—28mm, but the two I mentioned are the only adequate looking aluminium knobs they offer at ELFA (and they come in one size only). I played around with a caliper and yes, 22mm is probably going to look too small. It's a shame that kind of stores still don't know the web; not in Finland anyway. Glancing through a phonebook or wandering around a city like in the old days isn't my thing. :|


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *No Smoking* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Recently I havent been keeping up to date with this thread so I was just wondering if the Lawrence "head-fi" deal was still available._

 

Last I looked he was still selling them on eBay. Check the link in my sig for all the info.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have both an LD 1+ and a Zero. The LD 1+ amp is superior to the Zero's HPA, IMO. BUT...don't underestimate the positive impact a decent DAC can have on SQ vs driving an amp off an analog source.

 I'd prefer the Zero's DAC and it's LT1364 amp, to my LD 1+ coming off an analog soundcard, for instance. The Zero's DAC is pretty decent, again IMO, and the headphone's sensitvity and ease of drive will also come into play. Easily drivable cans will sound reasonably decent for a tight budget amp with easy to drive cans. I was very happy (for the money) with the Zero's HPA with my AT's, Grados, and Denons. It was when I got the K701's that I really felt the need for more amp (but was getting there none-the-less, even w/o the K701's).

 I guess I'm trying to say there's more than one variable here, with the DAC being an important consideration besides soley the amp capabilities._

 

X2 this. Alone, the Zero does ok driving headphones. Alone the amps I've used do well too when connected directly to my computer. However, the combination of a good DAC and good amp are needed together to get the best soundstage and separation, which neither by itself will provide. Even my latest piece of kit, a Lavry DAC is the same despite it having a decent HP amp built in.


----------



## DuClare

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *No Smoking* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Recently I havent been keeping up to date with this thread so I was just wondering if the Lawrence "head-fi" deal was still available._

 

Just send him an email. I got my Zero from him about a week ago.


----------



## bundee1

only order through ebay with lawrence. that way if anything goes wrong you can file a dispute with ebay or paypal and have a public record of it.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can anyone give me basic temperatures to use when soldering and desoldering. I tried soldering and desoldering yesterday and nothing would come loose or stick. 

 BTW Radio Shack desoldering braid sucks. It kept removing the tinning on my iron instead of the solder on the joints._

 

Hello,
 Cruising thru here and saw your post. I have a Weller WD1001 65W Pencil Station. I use 700 degrees. You can work fast with it. Don't dwell long on a point. Just paint it with heat. Will do very delicate work very well. Invest in some nice tips and take car of them. Hope that helps...

 Les


----------



## sennsay

Originally Posted by bundee1 
 Can anyone give me basic temperatures to use when soldering and desoldering. I tried soldering and desoldering yesterday and nothing would come loose or stick. 

 BTW Radio Shack desoldering braid sucks. It kept removing the tinning on my iron instead of the solder on the joints.


 Hi bundee1, I have just completed four projects, (Frankie, plus two amps and a power supply) with a fairly standard 25W iron and there have been no problems at all, plenty of heat. Don't know the temperature, but I've used an iron like this for many years. It costs about $10-$15NZD to buy. 
 Technique after thousands of joins may count for something. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Good desoldering braid is invaluable! The cheap stuff sure is crap, the good braid having a thin diameter, say 1.5mm, works best for most joins IMO from experience. Particularly with jobs like turning the Zero into Frankie. 
 S-Man


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Originally Posted by bundee1 
 Can anyone give me basic temperatures to use when soldering and desoldering. I tried soldering and desoldering yesterday and nothing would come loose or stick. 

 BTW Radio Shack desoldering braid sucks. It kept removing the tinning on my iron instead of the solder on the joints.


 Hi bundee1, I have just completed four projects, (Frankie, plus two amps and a power supply) with a fairly standard 25W iron and there have been no problems at all, plenty of heat. Don't know the temperature, but I've used an iron like this for many years. It costs about $10-$15NZD to buy. 
 Technique after thousands of joins may count for something. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Good desoldering braid is invaluable! The cheap stuff sure is crap, the good braid having a thin diameter, say 1.5mm, works best for most joins IMO from experience. Particularly with jobs like turning the Zero into Frankie. 
 S-Man_

 


 He has a soldering station that he needs to set the temp on. You can go from 680-750 with no issues. Like I posted above, my Weller 1001 is a 65w Pencil station made to do pretty fine work. I set it at 700 degrees for board work like you are doing here.


----------



## les_garten

Grettings Digit Heads!
 Ok, I've just finished Hell Week! Well not really a week, it only took 3 days to read the 775 pages of this thread. Now that I have "started" payment of my dues, I would like to be welcomed to the League of Extraordinary Gentleman here! Just bought the Completely upgraded LC model while I was around post 350 last night. Kinda wish I had waited till around post 500 or so when the earth and sun mods came to light. Or waited till post 770 or so when LC has kinda dropped from Favor, Ohhh Well, we'll see what happens. Ordered some cables from Monoprice.com. 

 I do have a question, I have an HT Omega Stryler 7.1 SC. Would I realize any "real" increase in SQ by going to a Claro+, or Claro Halo SC? I am referring to SPDIF out here.

 Another question, what happened to the PP Mod Kit??

 Ohh, and I am not Andrea.

 Ok, that should complete my Intro


 Asus P5K3-Deluxe >> HT Omega Stryker 7.1 >> Zero DAC HDAM >> Beyerdynamics DT770- 250 ohm
 __________________________________________________ _______ >> Klipsch Promedia 2.1

 Thanx!
 Les


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_He has a soldering station that he needs to set the temp on. You can go from 680-750 with no issues. Like I posted above, my Weller 1001 is a 65w Pencil station made to do pretty fine work. I set it at 700 degrees for board work like you are doing here._

 

Gotcha, didn't know he had a station. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Should be an easy fix then.


----------



## Currawong

If anyone's interested, I had another listen to the HDAMs after some burning in. The Moon I reckon is the one to go for, having the most soundstage of the three, the Sun being the most "in your face" and the Earth being in between.


----------



## djchaz

Ok, dumb question alert, I'm new to Head-fi so I'm sorry if this has been answered before. I searched the forums but couldn't find a clear answer.

 If I use the HDAM with the Zero DAC does this replace the need for something like the OPA627? Thank you.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Grettings Digit Heads!_

 

Welcome to the party -

  Quote:


 I do have a question, I have an HT Omega Stryler 7.1 SC. Would I realize any "real" increase in SQ by going to a Claro+, or Claro Halo SC? I am referring to SPDIF out here. 
 

I'm not familiar with either of these cards. Sry.

  Quote:


 Another question, what happened to the PP Mod Kit?? 
 

Can be found in this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/frankenzero-bang-buck-exploration-diy heart-370985/


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djchaz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, dumb question alert, I'm new to Head-fi so I'm sorry if this has been answered before. I searched the forums but couldn't find a clear answer.

 If I use the HDAM with the Zero DAC does this replace the need for something like the OPA627? Thank you._

 

Yes, HDAMs and OPA627 perform the same general electrical function and are generally interchangeable, and you will only need one or the other. 

 They both act as "op-amps". OPA627 is a monolythic semiconductor IC; HDAMs perform the same function using discrete components (mostly transistors in this case). For each Zero op-amp you will need one or the other. There are three op-amps used in the Zero: One in the DAC section, and two in the headphone amp section, again for a total of three. 

 Popular thought around here seems to be to use an OPA627 or HDAM for the DAC op-amp (with HDAM preffered) and two monolythic IC op-amps in the headphone section (LT1364 preffered).

 HTH


----------



## djchaz

Much appreciated, thanks StratCat.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djchaz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Much appreciated, thanks StratCat. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

NP.

 Enjoy!


----------



## x_lk

Just received my new Zero with HDAM, LT1364 and ALPS pot upgrades from LC yesterday. In my case, reasonable price (after bargaining 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) plus fast shipping (5 days from HK to Canada) ... so, LC does not look bad at all. The received Zero looks solid and tidy in general, except that the shaft of replacement pot sticks out about 1cm. So I fixed it with a hand saw - it was actually pretty easy. Then I followed Currawong's instruction, snipped two pair of treble killing caps off. So far, I am very satisfied with its SQ. I did want to ground the HDAM as mentioned by lots of headfier from this thread. But it seemed that the HDAM module from LC is different comparing to the latest offers from audio-gd. I looked at my HDAM very closely, found two pins labeled as 'AG'. I'm leaning to believe they are either 'Analog Ground' or 'Audio Ground', but not 100% sure. I don't want to risk frying my Zero by accident, so would like to hear from other owners of LC version, if this 'AG' pin is the right pin to ground with. Thank you in advance.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *x_lk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just received my new Zero with HDAM, LT1364 and ALPS pot upgrades from LC yesterday. In my case, reasonable price (after bargaining 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) plus fast shipping (5 days from HK to Canada) ... so, LC does not look bad at all. The received Zero looks solid and tidy in general, except that the shaft of replacement pot sticks out about 1cm. So I fixed it with a hand saw - it was actually pretty easy. Then I followed Currawong's instruction, snipped two pair of treble killing caps off. So far, I am very satisfied with its SQ. I did want to ground the HDAM as mentioned by lots of headfier from this thread. But it seemed that the HDAM module from LC is different comparing to the latest offers from audio-gd. I looked at my HDAM very closely, found two pins labeled as 'AG'. I'm leaning to believe they are either 'Analog Ground' or 'Audio Ground', but not 100% sure. I don't want to risk frying my Zero by accident, so would like to hear from other owners of LC version, if this 'AG' pin is the right pin to ground with. Thank you in advance._

 

Was the HDAM attached to the socket via the cable or did you have to do it? I thought AG was initials of the manufacturer?


----------



## les_garten

Hi,
 Let me re-phrase my SoundCard question. Insert the manufacturer of your choice. Let's say you have a Company that makes better than OEM soundcards. Pretty good soundcards in fact. If you are just looking at the SPDIF outputs of the SC's, are there significant differences in the quality of the sound coming out as digital??

 Let me analogize this to spark plugs in cars. There is not a HUGE difference between most of them in your car. You can drive around with a $1.50 NGK or a $15.00 Bosch Platinum and the car will feel and perform the same.

 I realize this is a generality I am asking about. I just thought that there would be real dirt in a SC's DAC and amplification stages compared to a relatively clean capture or encoding stage or whatever you call the preparation of the bitstream from the Hard drive, so that maybe a $100 SC into my DAC may sound as good as a $250 SC into my DAC(Zero).


----------



## BigTony

I have a £9 SC, and using custom driver I get bit perfect digital output for my dac over coax, for 2 and even 5.1 ch.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If anyone's interested, I had another listen to the HDAMs after some burning in. The Moon I reckon is the one to go for, having the most soundstage of the three, the Sun being the most "in your face" and the Earth being in between._

 

Would have to agree with you there, Currawong, though I don't use mine in the DAC and haven't tried it there. However, in my KHA amps it reigns supreme, not just for it's soundstage, but for it's sheer joy of life communication abilities. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Have just finished building KHA II with it's FrankenWorks parts, Dale resistors, Nichicon caps and all Black Gate bypasses, plus a new OPA Moon. Even with only a few hours under it's belt and still sounding very fresh, that huge soundstage and large focused and tangible images is prevalent, thanks to a New Moon Unit (
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). Only another 200 or 300 hours until it runs in ...... and despite it's freshness it rocks! 
 With OPA Earth in the DAC and the Frankie BA cap mod, at over 200 hours now, just about leaves me speechless! No matter what amp comes after it, stunning barely covers it. My little Corda 2Move has turned into something that sounds as if it ought to be vastly larger and hugely expensive. Gobsmackingly brilliant. Humungous soundstage and so open that my Denon 1000s sound more like Senns! No, I'm not kidding! Speed, timing, fun and extended frequency extremes ...... even the Denon's flaws seem to have melted away beyond bothering about. These two bits of kit seem to be a match made in heaven. 
 Currawong, have you tried your Corda Move with Frankie? I'm using a great quality AudioQuest Mini 3 cable to connect up. Simply extraordinary!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 S-Man in heaven.


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

bored


----------



## DaMnEd

It is an Opa-Earth equivalent, but not quite the same.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you know what the HDAM on Lawrence's upgraded Zero is? He has one on ebay:

Zero DAC with the HDAM, LT1364, and upgraded volume pot - eBay (item 330284748748 end time Nov-14-08 15:25:01 PST)_

 

He just sent me an email on mine being shipped. I'll let you know the particulars when I get it. We'll see if he has upgraded.


----------



## leothan

hi all,
 I just received my Zero and am getting some noise issues (everything's stock). There is a buzzing sound on both channels from 9 o'clock to 3 o'clock on the volume dial. I tried moving it around the house and the noise 's still remain ,so it 's not the interference from my pc . What might be causing this, how do I diagnose it? Oddly the noise gets SOFTER if I crank the knob all the way to the right. It is loudest at 12 o'clock
 Thank


----------



## linuxworks

is the buzz only when you TOUCH the knob to move it?

 I would suspect you are not getting a good ground, or you have leaky cables (not well shielded). are your cables long at all?

 have you tried grounding the zero chassis with thick braid (or similar) from the zero chassis to your source?

 also, does it matter if its opto or coax input to get the buzz, for you?


----------



## linuxworks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,
 Let me re-phrase my SoundCard question. Insert the manufacturer of your choice. Let's say you have a Company that makes better than OEM soundcards. Pretty good soundcards in fact. If you are just looking at the SPDIF outputs of the SC's, are there significant differences in the quality of the sound coming out as digital??_

 

in theory, jitter (timing diffs from one sample to another) can vary from one digital source (sc) to another. this is the only area where you'd get 'errors' and errors that are catastrophic on spdif are very very rare.

 for most of us (myself included) digital either works or it does not. I don't think I've ever hear the effects of jitter and I've used literally dozens of spdif sources and dacs. but some 'golden ears' claim to hear it and so you'll have to decide if this is real, significant (that's key) or imaginary at the level you listen at.

 most people don't hear these jitter errors. again, you'll have to decide how nuts you want to go just to have 'low specs on paper' so you can feel good at night 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 but for most of us, honestly, digital transports = digital transports. bits = bits. for most of us. ymmv, though!


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *linuxworks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_in theory, jitter (timing diffs from one sample to another) can vary from one digital source (sc) to another. this is the only area where you'd get 'errors' and errors that are catastrophic on spdif are very very rare.

 for most of us (myself included) digital either works or it does not. I don't think I've ever hear the effects of jitter and I've used literally dozens of spdif sources and dacs. but some 'golden ears' claim to hear it and so you'll have to decide if this is real, significant (that's key) or imaginary at the level you listen at.

 most people don't hear these jitter errors. again, you'll have to decide how nuts you want to go just to have 'low specs on paper' so you can feel good at night 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but for most of us, honestly, digital transports = digital transports. bits = bits. for most of us. ymmv, though!_

 

Gotta disagree with this - at least on a practical level - my ears do not lie. My onboard sound card, even though SPDIF out has a lot of noise and crackling. I was not able to find out why exactly, could be jitter I suppose, could be drivers, could be interference - who knows. What I do know is that coming from my X-fi I have no such issues through Coax OR Optical. I've heard others with the same issues (and not just on head-fi -- these issues were what put me over the top for getting a discrete audio card - well that and the break-out box). 

 So, theoretically, digital is digital, bits are bits etc etc - but build quality and programming are not all equal... I'd say the best course of action is to try it with your built-in card. If it sounds good, then you're good to go. If you have issues that you can't seem to solve, it's a good chance a better audio card would help.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *linuxworks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_in theory, jitter (timing diffs from one sample to another) can vary from one digital source (sc) to another. this is the only area where you'd get 'errors' and errors that are catastrophic on spdif are very very rare.

 for most of us (myself included) digital either works or it does not. I don't think I've ever hear the effects of jitter and I've used literally dozens of spdif sources and dacs. but some 'golden ears' claim to hear it and so you'll have to decide if this is real, significant (that's key) or imaginary at the level you listen at.

 most people don't hear these jitter errors. again, you'll have to decide how nuts you want to go just to have 'low specs on paper' so you can feel good at night 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but for most of us, honestly, digital transports = digital transports. bits = bits. for most of us. ymmv, though!_

 

Hi,
 That's what I thought. A better SC would be a huge waste here. Thanx!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Gotta disagree with this - at least on a practical level - my ears do not lie. My onboard sound card, even though SPDIF out has a lot of noise and crackling. I was not able to find out why exactly, could be jitter I suppose, could be drivers, could be interference - who knows. What I do know is that coming from my X-fi I have no such issues through Coax OR Optical. I've heard others with the same issues (and not just on head-fi -- these issues were what put me over the top for getting a discrete audio card - well that and the break-out box). 

 So, theoretically, digital is digital, bits are bits etc etc - but build quality and programming are not all equal... I'd say the best course of action is to try it with your built-in card. If it sounds good, then you're good to go. If you have issues that you can't seem to solve, it's a good chance a better audio card would help._

 

I think you didn't understand my question. In your scenario, you have crap seaping into your onboard that has nothing really to do with anything other than maybe isolation. The MB I have now is the first board I ever attempted to use Onboard sound when I built it. Driver issues w/ Vista 64 and the same issues you had made me get the card I have now. 

 What my question was, if you have two cards with no issues(no snapping, crackling, popping), is there any reason to buy the Uber Premum card $$$$ if you are bypassing the DAC and OpAmps on the SC anyhow?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What my question was, if you have two cards with no issues(no snapping, crackling, popping), is there any reason to buy the Uber Premum card $$$$ if you are bypassing the DAC and OpAmps on the SC anyhow?_

 

Hey LG,

 Lots of opinions on this topic, but little fact I'm afraid. If both were noise free, and the other parameters were equal, there is a good chance you would not detect the difference between the two, when using an outboard DAC. This would normally be a correct and commonly observed truthful answer. 

 However, I have personally heard a difference in transports between on-board chip solution audio in digital mode, and dedicated sound card audio in digital mode. An example is my notebook. It's an ASUS with HD-Audio built-in, with optical digital output. The output is OK and by no means "lacking" in some serious and highly noticeable way. But, compared to the X-Fi Express slot card I bought, it is indeed lacking. The X-Fi, with all the goodies turned off and bit perfect turned on, outshines the chip solution in many ways, most notable were dynamics, clarity of the upper highs, followed by a better controlled bass with more natural mids. I repeated this comparison over and over again, not wanting to believe that there was a difference. There was a difference though, and this made me very itchy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 While I explored this difference and was scratching my anatomy big time, it became clear to me that perhaps the chip solution audio used in mass production notebooks, can't compete yet with the likes of Creative or better dedicated sound cards. This is somehow not very surprising, and it follows a trend we've all seen in computer analog audio for years.

 On the other hand, I always encourage notebook owners who have optical digital output, to try a decent DAC like the Zero, and see if they like what they hear after any upgrades and burn-in time with the Zero. If they like it, COOL! They win. Important money saved for more music or goodies!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If they sense it might be lacking, then it most likely is, and they should explore some of the dedicated sound card solutions out there. In the end, they will win too! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just thought I'd toss out my 2 cents worth. YMMV of course.


----------



## linuxworks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,
 That's what I thought. A better SC would be a huge waste here. Thanx!_

 

as long as the sc seems competant, has DECENT drivers, does not force any kind of resampling on you (a good hint is if it passes thru DTS on the 48k 'carrier' and if your DTS decoder locks.)

 there's different levels of tweakiness. personally, I can't tell the sound diff between a cmi8738 (cmedia, somewhat common and very cheap) and the so-called pro envy24, with both being proper pci cards.

 I bought both from midiman (I think really midiman, before it became m-audio) and I've had really good 'bit perfect' luck with both. both have coax and opto in and out and both support a non-resampled 44.1 native mode.

 what I like most about the cmedia card is the driver:

cmediadrivers - Google Code

 I trust that driver and that makes all the diff in using that card (on xp). on linux, that card has been working for over 10 yrs - its as stable as it gets.

 the envy24 was a closed-source driver for a long time. I bought a copy back when that 4front (?) company was selling linux binary drivers. (those were the days...). if I wanted my $200 pci card to WORK on linux, I had to pay for the driver. I did and things worked just fine for a long time. I thought I used this card back in 99 or 2000 timeframe.

 years later they finally opensourced the envy24 chipset and I no longer had to deal with binary drivers. but by then I mostly switched over to using the cmi style cards.

 the envy24 is 'better' but I have yet to heard any major problems from either of those 2 pci cards.

 lately, though, I prefer usb-to-spdif dongles for my digital audio out solution, since pci cards are 'clunky' and aren't needed for decent audio anymore.


----------



## x_lk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Was the HDAM attached to the socket via the cable or did you have to do it? I thought AG was initials of the manufacturer?_

 

The HDAM is attached to the socket via extension cable. It is then glued to the bottom of chassis by double side adhesive tape. I guess you are right, the 'AG' on PCB is the name of manufacturer. Which pin is the ground then? Somebody answers me, please ... anyone?


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What my question was, if you have two cards with no issues(no snapping, crackling, popping), is there any reason to buy the Uber Premum card $$$$ if you are bypassing the DAC and OpAmps on the SC anyhow?_

 

I suppose I wasn't clear in my response but when I said:
 "I'd say the best course of action is to try it with your built-in card. If it sounds good, then you're good to go. If you have issues that you can't seem to solve, it's a good chance a better audio card would help. "

 What I meant was that in my opinion, if you're getting a clean signal from your onboard card, then I don't see a reason to buy another sound card.


----------



## shampoosuicide

I've noticed 2 problems when using my Zero, which is the basic version with the opamps replaced by the OPA267:

 1) When silent, turning the volume pot past the 12 o'clock mark, I can hear a rather audible hiss, which increases if I turn the volume pot further.

 2) After performing the cap snipping mod on my Zero, hiss and noise on certain recordings became more distinct, and distortion occurs on the louder portions of certain tracks. Is this a fault of the Zero or the recording? Did the caps actually perform any positive, useful function? The Lampizator calls them "unnecessary".


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey LG,

 Lots of opinions on this topic, but little fact I'm afraid. If both were noise free, and the other parameters were equal, there is a good chance you would not detect the difference between the two, when using an outboard DAC. This would normally be a correct and commonly observed truthful answer. 

 SNIP>>>>>>>>
_

 

Hi,
 I wasn't cler here. I'm not using the onboard audio. It is disabled, and I have a good SC in place. I was wondering if buying a "gooder" card would make a difference. Sounds like most likely not. Rather than dump $200 on another SC, I'd rather get a LD MKV or better phones or something else. Thanx for your info and all you've contributed to the community here. I have some LD Reviews by you I have slated to read tonight!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *linuxworks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_

 the envy24 was a closed-source driver for a long time. I bought a copy back when that 4front (?) company was selling linux binary drivers. (those were the days...). if I wanted my $200 pci card to WORK on linux, I had to pay for the driver. I did and things worked just fine for a long time. I thought I used this card back in 99 or 2000 timeframe.

 years later they finally opensourced the envy24 chipset and I no longer had to deal with binary drivers. but by then I mostly switched over to using the cmi style cards._

 

BTDTGTTS

 I'm sure we've trod some of the same ground.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 What I meant was that in my opinion, if you're getting a clean signal from your onboard card, then I don't see a reason to buy another sound card._

 

Hi,
 My onboard audio is disabled and I have a "good" PCI card in place that does well. I see what ya mean though. My onboard audio had some issues, then bought a Creative X-Fi and it had Vista 64 issues, so ended up with HT Omega and am real happy with it.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *x_lk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The HDAM is attached to the socket via extension cable. It is then glued to the bottom of chassis by double side adhesive tape. I guess you are right, the 'AG' on PCB is the name of manufacturer. Which pin is the ground then? Somebody answers me, please ... anyone?_

 


 Hi,
 Do any of these Pix of the Earth help?

ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1


----------



## MasZakrY

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Re: Multicomp ElectricalMechanical|MC21025|Switch Knob | Newark Canada

 Just a quickie update:

 I got mine from Newark USA, and it's a pretty good fit aesthetically and physically. It fits the Zero's front panel knob recess indentation diameter just about perfectly. Depth offeset is pretty close, tho could use maybe 1/16th" (~1-2mm) more depth to fit deeper into the front panel recess in a perfect world. But that's really a very minor quibble most ppl wouldn't even notice. It fits and looks pretty darn close to OEM, IMHO. Aesthetically, it's a perfect match.

 There's a recessed set screw hole that may be visible dependant on the knob's rotation position, and the set screw needs to be really snugged down for a tight fit, since the Vpot's shaft is scored for a press-fit knob, not a slide on knob with a set screw like this one, and the knob can move few degrees perpendicular to the front panel unless fully tightened.

 But I am really being very highly critical and detailed here (since I didn't post pics). It looks pretty much OEM spec'd and OEM quality, TBH. I'm happy with it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'll try to get some pics up soon._

 

Thanks for the update! I had just assumed it was a push on torx style, not set screw but 10 seconds will a dremel on the output shaft and I'll be set. We need pictures though!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MasZakrY* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the update! I had just assumed it was a push on torx style, not set screw but 10 seconds will a dremel on the output shaft and I'll be set. We need pictures though!_

 

How does it feel as far as weight is concerned?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you know what the HDAM on Lawrence's upgraded Zero is? He has one on ebay:

Zero DAC with the HDAM, LT1364, and upgraded volume pot - eBay (item 330284748748 end time Nov-14-08 15:25:01 PST)_

 

It's the first generation (Earth) HDAM. I have one from LC. It is as good as the second gen Earth module from the same company (audio-gd).

 Peete.


----------



## x_lk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,
 Do any of these Pix of the Earth help?

ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1_

 

Thank you! Unfortunately LC ships a different HDAM, based on a previous post, it's Earth equivalent, but not the same. It does not have the ground tail like the three shown in these pics.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *x_lk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you! Unfortunately LC ships a different HDAM, based on a previous post, it's Earth equivalent, but not the same. It does not have the ground tail like the three shown in these pics._

 

This pic shows the gnd wire from the first gen HDAM attached to the pcb hold down screw near the DAC socket.

 I know it doesn't show precisely where the gnd wire is attached but it's on a pin that traverses the two halves (channels ) of the HDAM unit tieing the gnd's together. The length of wire seen in the pic is the extension of that gnd plane.






 I wouldn't worry about it to much at this point. Just make sure it doesn't touch anything causing a short, if you don't use it (for now).

 That's an old pic ...my Frankie has changed quite a bit since then (the H/Amp section most of all ).


 Peete.


----------



## leothan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *linuxworks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_is the buzz only when you TOUCH the knob to move it?

 I would suspect you are not getting a good ground, or you have leaky cables (not well shielded). are your cables long at all?

 have you tried grounding the zero chassis with thick braid (or similar) from the zero chassis to your source?

 also, does it matter if its opto or coax input to get the buzz, for you?_

 

the buzz happen all the time,is the same sound level when i tough the knob and louder when I tough the case 
you have leaky cables 
You mean signal cable or power ? I think my signal is ok ,
 and how to ground the zero chassis with thick braid (or similar) from the zero chassis to your source ? (you mean from the zero case to the ground or ???
 Thank for your reply


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leothan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the buzz happen all the time,is the same sound level when i tough the knob and louder when I tough the case 
you have leaky cables 
You mean signal cable or power ? I think my signal is ok ,
 and how to ground the zero chassis with thick braid (or similar) from the zero chassis to your source ? (you mean from the zero case to the ground or ???
 Thank for your reply_

 

Check to see if the pot ground wire is there or not, if it is it may need to be re soldered. If there is no wire add one as shown in the pic.

 Make sure opamps/HDAM's are fully seated in their sockets. Sometimes these can cause noise if not inserted all the way. It's pretty unlikely this is your problem or the cause of the noise. I'm willing to bet it's your pot ground wire.

 Heres a pic of the wire and it's location. Please note my pot in the pic is the upgraded Alps.







 Peete


----------



## leothan

hi ,I think the problem is this ,because my one does not have the wire ,today I will connect it and let you know soon ,Thank


----------



## leothan

@Pricklely Peete thank you very much ,the wire really works,now all the noise is disappeared


----------



## sandchak

Hats off to Pete.. the post sorted my problem too.. well, looking at his mods and upgraded Zero.. I am having a headache thinking how I much I can ( I have to) do make these Zeros shine..
 Thanks again


----------



## DaMnEd

To anyone with the Audio-GD modules, read the last two posts of this thread by me concerning the "Stereo Crosstalk": http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/zer...-h-amp-370969/

 Make sure you ground your modules!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leothan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@Pricklely Peete thank you very much ,the wire really works,now all the noise is disappeared_

 

Who did you buy it from?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hats off to Pete.. the post sorted my problem too.. well, looking at his mods and upgraded Zero.. I am having a headache thinking how I much I can ( I have to) do make these Zeros shine..
 Thanks again_

 

Where did you buy yours from?


----------



## leothan

bought my from jaben


----------



## shampoosuicide

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shampoosuicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've noticed 2 problems when using my Zero, which is the basic version with the opamps replaced by the OPA267:

 1) When silent, turning the volume pot past the 12 o'clock mark, I can hear a rather audible hiss, which increases if I turn the volume pot further.

 2) After performing the cap snipping mod on my Zero, hiss and noise on certain recordings became more distinct, and distortion occurs on the louder portions of certain tracks. Is this a fault of the Zero or the recording? Did the caps actually perform any positive, useful function? The Lampizator calls them "unnecessary"._

 

Anyone?

 Also, is the volume pot swap worth the upgrade? I have no soldering skills whatsoever......


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Hi Shampoo,

 Number 2 is definitely due to recording quality. Number 1 may be due to impedance of your cans ? If low then hiss might be a factor. The pot could also be faulty or noisy,dirty etc...might be worth spraying some contact cleaner in it (or WD40 in a pinch) and working that stuff in (rotate the pot it's full travel back and forth slowly) with the amp off. Then try it out again. Don't use a lot of the cleaner...just one short squirt right at the space between the shaft and pot casing (from the front). You'll have to remove the vol knob and the nut/washer to see that shaft/casing opening. Just pull the vol knob off gently. It will come off with a little effort. The shaft is splined with some low tack adhesive.

 Also have a look at your pot for the ground wire I mentioned yesterday in the pic posted. If it's not there then make sure you add one. The Alps pot is superior in noise rejection, channel balance etc...and is a worth while investment IMO.

 Let me know how you make out ...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hats off to Pete.. the post sorted my problem too.. well, looking at his mods and upgraded Zero.. I am having a headache thinking how I much I can ( I have to) do make these Zeros shine..
 Thanks again_

 



 Thanks guys. I'm glad I was able to help. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wonder why this link is being missed during assembly...I mean that noise would be obvious to anyone when QC testing is done...maybe no such audio testing is being carried out on the H/Amp ? Seems to be a recent problem the last couple of weeks.

 I think anyone buying Zero's recently should check theirs as soon as they receive them and report who is selling these without this essential pot ground wire. Please email the vendor you bought the Zero from and remind them of this part being missing please. I'm sure they would be grateful for the end user updates.

 Peete.


----------



## shampoosuicide

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Shampoo,

 Number 2 is definitely due to recording quality. Number 1 may be due to impedance of your cans ? If low then hiss might be a factor. The pot could also be faulty or noisy,dirty etc...might be worth spraying some contact cleaner in it (or WD40 in a pinch) and working that stuff in (rotate the pot it's full travel back and forth slowly) with the amp off. Then try it out again. Don't use a lot of the cleaner...just one short squirt right at the space between the shaft and pot casing (from the front). You'll have to remove the vol knob and the nut/washer to see that shaft/casing opening. Just pull the vol knob off gently. It will come off with a little effort. The shaft is splined with some low tack adhesive.

 Also have a look at your pot for the ground wire I mentioned yesterday in the pic posted. If it's not there then make sure you add one. The Alps pot is superior in noise rejection, channel balance etc...and is a worth while investment IMO.

 Let me know how you make out ...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Pete, thank you so much for clarifying that!

 However, what was the original purpose of the caps? I believe they were meant to attenuate noise, or am I wrong to think this?

 Also, do you think I could perform the pot swap with some degree of ease, given that I have no experience in soldering?


----------



## x_lk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This pic shows the gnd wire from the first gen HDAM attached to the pcb hold down screw near the DAC socket.

 I know it doesn't show precisely where the gnd wire is attached but it's on a pin that traverses the two halves (channels ) of the HDAM unit tieing the gnd's together. The length of wire seen in the pic is the extension of that gnd plane._

 

Thanks. This really helped.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wouldn't worry about it to much at this point. Just make sure it doesn't touch anything causing a short, if you don't use it (for now).
 Peete._

 

And you are right, I hear no audible SQ improvement after grounding. But I suspect it is because my cans are not capable of picking up the differences. I am still waiting for my new K701 to come.


----------



## sandchak

Well, I sent an email to the seller, but then I seem to have realized another problem with my zero as I was trying to work out out all the options.

 My preamp section dont seem to work, although I bought this specifically for HPs, I tried to hook onto the klipsch 2 desktop speakers and there is no sound, This is how I connected and correct me if I am wrong, from the digital out of my CD player, I connected to the zero through the digital cable that came with the set, and from the output section of the zero I connected to the speakers (active)..

 I noticed one more thing, when I am switching off the headphone switch (with my headphones still attached to the zero, and turn up the volume, I can hear the music (although very faintly)..

 Help me guys ! due you think some connections are shot inside me Zero??..



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks guys. I'm glad I was able to help. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wonder why this link is being missed during assembly...I mean that noise would be obvious to anyone when QC testing is done...maybe no such audio testing is being carried out on the H/Amp ? Seems to be a recent problem the last couple of weeks.

 I think anyone buying Zero's recently should check theirs as soon as they receive them and report who is selling these without this essential pot ground wire. Please email the vendor you bought the Zero from and remind them of this part being missing please. I'm sure they would be grateful for the end user updates.

 Peete._


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I sent an email to the seller, but then I seem to have realized another problem with my zero as I was trying to work out out all the options.

 My preamp section dont seem to work, although I bought this specifically for HPs, I tried to hook onto the klipsch 2 desktop speakers and there is no sound, This is how I connected and correct me if I am wrong, from the digital out of my CD player, I connected to the zero through the digital cable that came with the set, and from the output section of the zero I connected to the speakers (active)..

 I noticed one more thing, when I am switching off the headphone switch (with my headphones still attached to the zero, and turn up the volume, I can hear the music (although very faintly)..

 Help me guys ! due you think some connections are shot inside me Zero??.._

 

Which seller!


----------



## sandchak

I bought this on EBAY from a seller called wsz0304, but I am sure this not common with him, as he was highly recommended in the forum.. I am pretty sure this one of the rare cases as far as it concerns him.. I am going to write about this too, lets see what he has to say


----------



## x_lk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I sent an email to the seller, but then I seem to have realized another problem with my zero as I was trying to work out out all the options.

 My preamp section dont seem to work, although I bought this specifically for HPs, I tried to hook onto the klipsch 2 desktop speakers and there is no sound, This is how I connected and correct me if I am wrong, from the digital out of my CD player, I connected to the zero through the digital cable that came with the set, and from the output section of the zero I connected to the speakers (active)..

 I noticed one more thing, when I am switching off the headphone switch (with my headphones still attached to the zero, and turn up the volume, I can hear the music (although very faintly)..

 Help me guys ! due you think some connections are shot inside me Zero??.._

 

Zero can not drive H/Amp and Preamp at the same time. To get preamped signal, you have to unplug your headphones. When you switch off the headphone switch, both H/Amp and preamp are disabled, you get un-amped output - and probably not enough juice to drive your speakers.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *x_lk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Zero can not drive H/Amp and Preamp at the same time. To get preamped signal, you have to unplug your headphones. When you switch off the headphone switch, both H/Amp and preamp are disabled, you get un-amped output - and probably not enough juice to drive your speakers._

 

Well, I again did what exatctly you said and there is still no Sound from the speakers..
 And I also cant understand, when the headphone switch is off, but headphones still connected to the zero, why there should there be faint music running when I turn the volume high..


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *x_lk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Zero can not drive H/Amp and Preamp at the same time. To get preamped signal, you have to unplug your headphones. When you switch off the headphone switch, both H/Amp and preamp are disabled, you get un-amped output - and probably not enough juice to drive your speakers._

 

oops, I am so disappointed that I forgot to even thank you for your suggestions in my last post.. thanks !
 Its really disappointing because I paid nearly 100 bucks for DHL shipping so that it could reach me soon, a little correction to my first post I bought this specially for the PC and PC speakers and not headphones.. as I plan to run my 701s with shanling PH100, which is on ts way..
 I was really thinking about upgrading the Zero and not repairing..


----------



## bundee1

Umm just a dumb suggestion but did you select the right digital input from the buttons on the front? And is the green preamp light lit? Both have to be on to use the preamp volume function.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Umm just a dumb suggestion but did you select the right digital input from the buttons on the front? And is the green preamp light lit? Both have to be on to use the preamp volume function._

 

Yes, since I am using the optical out from my CD player, I switched the optical out switch the Zero too (blue light) + the preamp Green light.. infact I tried all perumutations and combinations of switches.. with and without the headphones inserted.. still no sound from the speakers...
 thanks...


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, since I am using the optical out from my CD player, I switched the optical out switch the Zero too (blue light) + the preamp Green light.. infact I tried all perumutations and combinations of switches.. with and without the headphones inserted.. still no sound from the speakers...
 thanks..._

 

How about trying the COAX input to the DAC?

 Scratch that... Your headphones work, ehhh?

 There is a reset switch in the box, ya gotta wonder what it does here.


----------



## powertoold

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, since I am using the optical out from my CD player, I switched the optical out switch the Zero too (blue light) + the preamp Green light.. infact I tried all perumutations and combinations of switches.. with and without the headphones inserted.. still no sound from the speakers...
 thanks..._

 

First of all, make sure your CD player works from the optical (there should be a red light from the optical cord). Then, on the Zero, the only lights that should be on when using the CD player > Zero > Speakers are the Optical and Power blue lights. Your green light should not be on!

 Also, make sure you're connecting everything right to the speakers, i.e. audio input on the speakers.

 There are many different reasons your speakers aren't working from the Zero. I would do more tests before making quick conclusions. Your optical cable may be faulty too. They are very fragile, and you should never have a corner bend on them.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How about trying the COAX input to the DAC?_

 

I dont have a coax cable to try that out.. I dont think its a signal problem because I can hear the headphones very well with optical connections.. maybe i should buy a coax cable and hook into my NAD CD player because this technics player only as optical out.. which means again back to ebay and wait for 7 days !!.. ( I am in Georgia (NOT USA) - you get nothing out here...)


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *powertoold* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_First of all, make sure your CD player works from the optical (there should be a red light from the optical cord). Then, on the Zero, the only lights that should be on when using the CD player > Zero > Speakers are the Optical and Power blue lights. Your green light should not be on!

 Also, make sure you're connecting everything right to the speakers, i.e. audio input on the speakers.

 There are many different reasons your speakers aren't working from the Zero. I would do more tests before making quick conclusions. Your optical cable may be faulty too. They are very fragile, and you should never have a corner bend on them._

 

I was kinda goin' that direction too, but he says his Headphones work OK.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *powertoold* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_First of all, make sure your CD player works from the optical (there should be a red light from the optical cord). Then, on the Zero, the only lights that should be on when using the CD player > Zero > Speakers are the Optical and Power blue lights. Your green light should not be on!

 Also, make sure you're connecting everything right to the speakers, i.e. audio input on the speakers.

 There are many different reasons your speakers aren't working from the Zero. I would do more tests before making quick conclusions. Your optical cable may be faulty too. They are very fragile, and you should never have a corner bend on them._

 

I think the cable works fine (no corner bent) because I can hear the headphones from when attached to the ZERO and headphone switch ON (In fact I can even hear the music very faintly when I raise the volume BUT with the headphone switch OFF, on my head phones..

 To check the speakers I connected the speakers back on my PC and it works fine..

 I also opened up the ZERO and I can see when the music starts playing, a red bulb lights up on the board of the zero meaning the signal is being recieved..

 I also checked the connections with the speakers, everything as it should be..

 I am very cobnfused because although new to headfi.. I am pretty well aware about hifi, even though I wont call myself a techie..

 maybe somethings blown up inside.. do you think it can be a problem with the output opamp (opa627)??.. seems like a little loose on the socket..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I dont have a coax cable to try that out.. I dont think its a signal problem because I can hear the headphones very well with optical connections.. maybe i should buy a coax cable and hook into my NAD CD player because this technics player only as optical out.. which means again back to ebay and wait for 7 days !!.. ( I am in Georgia (NOT USA) - you get nothing out here...)_

 

Well, seems like it can only be one of two types of failure.

 Since your Headphones play, you know the DAC is working and the DAC is making a "line out" type of signal to the Headphone amp. So why doesn't the Line out jacks have any audio goodness to them.

 1) The DAC doesn't switch the output properly from the HP Amp to the RCA Jacks. That would be bad, here's where the reset switch may help.
 2) The RCA jacks, both of them, have a wiring issue(doubt that)
 3) Your Cable from the Zero RCA's to your equipment(speakers) is bad. Troubleshoot and confirm that cable. It is RCA to minijack??? Maybe with a adapter in the middle???
 4) Something going on with the Jack on your speakers.

 Start from scratch. Every link needs to be CONFIRMED good. Don't assume anything. Some of my most frustrating troubleshooting has revolved around a cable that worked one minute and quit working the next. I know that cable is good I just used it, yeah right. 

 ASSUME NOTHING, TRUST NOBODY, TRAVEL ONLY UNDER COVER OF DARKNESS. Whoops, sorry wrong forum for that last post....


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 maybe somethings blown up inside.. do you think it can be a problem with the output opamp (opa627)??.. seems like a little loose on the socket.._

 

I would make sure it is socked well. But it seems it is working, because your headphones are working. With everything you said here, it is leaning towards faulting switching of the line output from the HP Amp to the RCA's. The reset switch may fix this. 

 For COAX, any RCA cable will work for troubleshooting.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would make sure it is socked well. But it seems it is working, because your headphones are working. With everything you said here, it is leaning towards faulting switching of the line output from the HP Amp to the RCA's. The reset switch may fix this. 

 For COAX, any RCA cable will work for troubleshooting._

 

I am absolutely sure the cables I am using are fine and as you say, the opamps are fine too because I can hear the headphones..

 What is this RESET switch?? and how can I use this switch to fix it????...


----------



## sandchak

Well Guys ! thanks for all the inputs, its close to 2AM out here and feel like just the Zero myself !

 Tommorow morning I'll try and hook up my NAD C541i which does have coax connection and try my vandenhul RCA cable to act as coax and see if that works.. if not, well I just realized that I have crossed 10 posting and I can SELL!!!!.. kidding.. any further inputs will be highly appreciated considering this cost me around USD250 with DHL shipping and considering more that I aint rich but a freak for audio..

 And to say honestly, I am now dreading if theres something majorly wrong and I have to ship back and forth.. by that time this might be the costliest Zero - well only if it works..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well Guys ! thanks for all the inputs, its close to 2AM out here and feel like just the Zero myself !

 Tommorow morning I'll try and hook up my NAD C541i which does have coax connection and try my vandenhul RCA cable to act as coax and see if that works.. if not, well I just realized that I have crossed 10 posting and I can SELL!!!!.. kidding.. any further inputs will be highly appreciated considering this cost me around USD250 with DHL shipping and considering more that I aint rich but a freak for audio..

 And to say honestly, I am now dreading if theres something majorly wrong and I have to ship back and forth.. by that time this might be the costliest Zero - well only if it works.._

 

Actually you need 50 posts to sell. I got something and have to wait or do it on Fleabay. They slap these things together, and I guarantee you, they are not fired up and ran, no matter what any of them say. If they were, we wouldn't have the kinda problems we are seeing. I'm waiting on mine and I've got both my testicles crossed for good luck!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Sandchak,

 Double check the 627 opamp in the dac section socket. If it's the AU form factor (the small adapter with an over under chip arrangement) it's possible it's been installed backwards or was poorly assembled. If it was then it will cook itself when you turn the unit on with little or vastly distorted signal being passed to the analog outs or the H/Amp section. That's one possibility, another is checking to make sure the H/Amp opamps are also installed correctly. The crescent or cutouts on the IC's themselves should all face towards the rear panel. If you can take a pic of the opamps as they are now before taking them out that would be very helpful. Post the pic and maybe we can spot something obvious.

 Another possibility, and this is a remote one, is the vol pot is bad or the relay used to engage the preamp is faulty. In any event the line out or line level should function if you are hearing faint music with the cans plugged in. 

 One more idea, do you have another amp to run that line level signal to (other than your computer speakers) to establish if it's a conflict with the computer speakers themselves. Like a cheap receiver or integrated amp with either a head phone output or hooked up to your speakers (a regular pair, not the computer speakers).

 One other test to try....isolate your computer speakers completely from the computer and only run the RCA outs from the Zero to the computer speaker inputs (2 channel stereo only) Make sure you have selected the Front pair of speakers if it's a MC setup. The only connection to the computer being the optical out.

 Another option to try is making sure you don't have a level in your CP mixer low or muted, a driver conflict or configuration problem (such as 5.1 vs 2.1 etc...).

 That's a lot of things to try and I hope you can get your problem nailed down soon. It seems to me that if you can hear music than it's a possible easy fix that is being overlooked somewhere.

 One last note...a blown opamp will pass some signal so that's no sign of them working properly. The gain level between a blown opamp and one working properly is huge.

 One more I thought of...pull the pcbs to check for shorts anywhere...untrimmed legs touching the chassis, sloppy solder clean up causing a short...gently, ever so slightly, flex the pcb's to see if anything changes while passing a signal through the DAC and H/Amp sections. Another trick is wiggle the 1/4 in jack in the Zero's H/Amp socket...it may have a cold solder joint, check the solder joints on the pot as well with a gentle flex of the pcb while powered. Visually inspect the pots solder points. 

 Make sure the 2 cables (of the 4 wires each) running to and from each board along the right hand side are fully seated and finally...make sure the two black power connectors are fully seated (one is the upper left hand side and the other a small 3pin on the H/amp board ).

 A real quick test to see if the 627 is buggered is to try one of the H/Amp opamps in the DAC section's socket. Again this will only allow for a line level output to another amp (with speakers).

 That should narrow a few of the possibilities that come to mind.

 Good luck and report back...

 Peete.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sandchak,

 Double check the 627 opamp in the dac section socket. If it's the AU form factor (the small adapter with an over under chip arrangement) it's possible it's been installed backwards or was poorly assembled. .

 SNIP>>>>>>>>>>

 Peete._

 

Thanx Peete,
 I saved this doc as a neat troubleshooting guide. I anticipated some of what you posted here, so when I ordered my Zero, I ordered 3 sets of OpAmps from Linear Tech just in case it came in with an amp screwed up. The smart plan seems to just pull both boards out and QC them before firing them up. That's been my plan. Shame you have to do this, but seems like not a bad idea.


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanx Peete,
 I saved this doc as a neat troubleshooting guide. I anticipated some of what you posted here, so when I ordered my Zero, I ordered 3 sets of OpAmps from Linear Tech just in case it came in with an amp screwed up. The smart plan seems to just pull both boards out and QC them before firing them up. That's been my plan. Shame you have to do this, but seems like not a bad idea._

 

Yes, it is a shame to have to do that, especially since it might make noobies somewhat nervous pulling the boards, a good idea though. 
 I did pull mine, even though I've had my Frankie .... um, Zero once upon a time ago ... for some months now, fortunately all was well. Mine's been flawless from the beginning, other than the standard channel imbalance on the stock vol pot, since replaced with the upgraded ALPS. 
 PP is excellent with noobies to the Zero! Let's call him Daddy Zero! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 S-Man


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sandchak,

 Double check the 627 opamp in the dac section socket. If it's the AU form factor (the small adapter with an over under chip arrangement) it's possible it's been installed backwards or was poorly assembled. If it was then it will cook itself when you turn the unit on with little or vastly distorted signal being passed to the analog outs or the H/Amp section. That's one possibility, another is checking to make sure the H/Amp opamps are also installed correctly. The crescent or cutouts on the IC's themselves should all face towards the rear panel. If you can take a pic of the opamps as they are now before taking them out that would be very helpful. Post the pic and maybe we can spot something obvious.

 Another possibility, and this is a remote one, is the vol pot is bad or the relay used to engage the preamp is faulty. In any event the line out or line level should function if you are hearing faint music with the cans plugged in. 

 One more idea, do you have another amp to run that line level signal to (other than your computer speakers) to establish if it's a conflict with the computer speakers themselves. Like a cheap receiver or integrated amp with either a head phone output or hooked up to your speakers (a regular pair, not the computer speakers).

 One other test to try....isolate your computer speakers completely from the computer and only run the RCA outs from the Zero to the computer speaker inputs (2 channel stereo only) Make sure you have selected the Front pair of speakers if it's a MC setup. The only connection to the computer being the optical out.

 Another option to try is making sure you don't have a level in your CP mixer low or muted, a driver conflict or configuration problem (such as 5.1 vs 2.1 etc...).

 That's a lot of things to try and I hope you can get your problem nailed down soon. It seems to me that if you can hear music than it's a possible easy fix that is being overlooked somewhere.

 One last note...a blown opamp will pass some signal so that's no sign of them working properly. The gain level between a blown opamp and one working properly is huge.

 One more I thought of...pull the pcbs to check for shorts anywhere...untrimmed legs touching the chassis, sloppy solder clean up causing a short...gently, ever so slightly, flex the pcb's to see if anything changes while passing a signal through the DAC and H/Amp sections. Another trick is wiggle the 1/4 in jack in the Zero's H/Amp socket...it may have a cold solder joint, check the solder joints on the pot as well with a gentle flex of the pcb while powered. Visually inspect the pots solder points. 

 Make sure the 2 cables (of the 4 wires each) running to and from each board along the right hand side are fully seated and finally...make sure the two black power connectors are fully seated (one is the upper left hand side and the other a small 3pin on the H/amp board ).

 A real quick test to see if the 627 is buggered is to try one of the H/Amp opamps in the DAC section's socket. Again this will only allow for a line level output to another amp (with speakers).

 That should narrow a few of the possibilities that come to mind.

 Good luck and report back...

 Peete._

 

Hi Peete,
 I just woke and rushed here to see anything for me..
 I will run all the tests and pics during the day and post the pics too..
 I think I have to mention something which I overlooked and didnt mention earlier..
 When I put on the amp for the first time which was the day before and hooked it to the headphones, it started off well, BUT within a minuite, there was like a noise (zzzzzzzzzzz) like something getting burnt inside or shot circuiting, and the lights of zero were kind of shimmered.. I got scared and switched off the Zero, (thought it was maybe the voltage problem), but then I switched on the zero and everything worked fine with the headphones on..
 It was only yesterday that I tried to connect the speakers and found no sound comming out of it..
 Like I said, I'll do all the tests and pics and report back in the evening, hopefully I'll find time because abnormally today is an extremely busy day for me..
 Thank You Peete, You are a saviour for folks like me on the forum..


----------



## Penchum

With all this troubleshooting going on, I thought it would be a good idea to share some of what I know about the Zero, from a slightly different stand point. Many of you don't know this, but the Zero has been sold to members of HeadFi, dating clear back to August of last year. That is a year and three months!!

 Late last year and early this year, Lawrence was the only trusted seller who was "bench testing" his Zero's prior to shipment. The Zero factory was putting out some decent units, and the failure rates were much better than we could get from a US manufacturer. Then, things just seemed to change somehow. Other sellers were popping up, selling quantity to make their profit. Once Lawrence lowered his prices and made deals to compete directly with them, I'm "pretty" sure bench testing went away, except in cases where soldering was involved, like when the Alps pot upgrade was done in house.

 Then, we started to notice problems with the cleanup and QC of the boards, prior to final unit assembly. It looked like sloppy work, but I think the cleaning/QC was simply NOT DONE before assembly. It seemed like the assembly line just dropped this cleaning/QC step, opting to shove them out the door quicker. I wasn't impressed. The factory owns this problem 100%. Then, we started to notice the upgrade Opamps not being installed correctly, like they were an afterthought or something. Chalk this one up to final QC. The "seller" owns this problem 100%.

 Considering all these things, it seems to paint a "not so hot" picture for the makers and sellers of the Zero. However, all of this is only ONE part of a much bigger picture.

 The Zero factory sells Zero's in batches of 50 units, to resellers that sell on eBay or their own web site stores. We already know this part. The part we don't see, is the amount of Zero's that are sold to stores in China. According to two such stores, they are selling Zero's like crazy to the public in China! Way more than the amount of Zero's being sold around the world! So, when you think about production of the Zero's, you have to factor in a much higher quantity demand being put on the factory. Those boys must be jamming big time! We also have to consider what happens to our Zero's during shipping. It is the great unknown, but indicators show that smaller boxes are being tossed around pretty hard. We can't escape this variable, if we want a Zero.

 At the end of the day, the failure rates on the Zero's as a whole, are very good. Of all the HeadFi'ers buying Zero's, we always hear about the ones that have issues. These amount to a very small portion of the overall HeadFi numbers. Add in the units that need help after shipping, and you still have a very small number.

 So I guess what I'm trying to say, is that the majority of us who order a Zero, will have a decent Zero without problems. The problems noted above were spread out over an entire year! Considering it is a budget DAC/Amp and it was shipped half way around the world to our door steps, it is great that the Zero has had so much success. The price point has saved us a bunch of cash, and the Zero's performance has put higher priced units on notice!

 I still believe buying a Zero is a safe bet. Thanks to everyone's hard work in this thread, the small number of problem Zero's identified here, get fixed by the owners, and very, very few will ever have to return their Zero's to China for a fix. This thread has just about every fix known, and the help you can get here is some of the best I have seen on HeadFi. With this kind of backing, I would buy another Zero in a heart beat! You guys are the best!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Pench


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With all this troubleshooting going on, I thought it would be a good idea to share some of what I know about the Zero, from a slightly different stand point. Many of you don't know this, but the Zero has been sold to members of HeadFi, dating clear back to August of last year. That is a year and three months!!

 Late last year and early this year, Lawrence was the only trusted seller who was "bench testing" his Zero's prior to shipment. The Zero factory was putting out some decent units, and the failure rates were much better than we could get from a US manufacturer. Then, things just seemed to change somehow. Other sellers were popping up, selling quantity to make their profit. Once Lawrence lowered his prices and made deals to compete directly with them, I'm "pretty" sure bench testing went away, except in cases where soldering was involved, like when the Alps pot upgrade was done in house.

 Then, we started to notice problems with the cleanup and QC of the boards, prior to final unit assembly. It looked like sloppy work, but I think the cleaning/QC was simply NOT DONE before assembly. It seemed like the assembly line just dropped this cleaning/QC step, opting to shove them out the door quicker. I wasn't impressed. The factory owns this problem 100%. Then, we started to notice the upgrade Opamps not being installed correctly, like they were an afterthought or something. Chalk this one up to final QC. The "seller" owns this problem 100%.

 Considering all these things, it seems to paint a "not so hot" picture for the makers and sellers of the Zero. However, all of this is only ONE part of a much bigger picture.

 The Zero factory sells Zero's in batches of 50 units, to resellers that sell on eBay or their own web site stores. We already know this part. The part we don't see, is the amount of Zero's that are sold to stores in China. According to two such stores, they are selling Zero's like crazy to the public in China! Way more than the amount of Zero's being sold around the world! So, when you think about production of the Zero's, you have to factor in a much higher quantity demand being put on the factory. Those boys must be jamming big time! We also have to consider what happens to our Zero's during shipping. It is the great unknown, but indicators show that smaller boxes are being tossed around pretty hard. We can't escape this variable, if we want a Zero.

 At the end of the day, the failure rates on the Zero's as a whole, are very good. Of all the HeadFi'ers buying Zero's, we always hear about the ones that have issues. These amount to a very small portion of the overall HeadFi numbers. Add in the units that need help after shipping, and you still have a very small number.

 So I guess what I'm trying to say, is that the majority of us who order a Zero, will have a decent Zero without problems. The problems noted above were spread out over an entire year! Considering it is a budget DAC/Amp and it was shipped half way around the world to our door steps, it is great that the Zero has had so much success. The price point has saved us a bunch of cash, and the Zero's performance has put higher priced units on notice!

 I still believe buying a Zero is a safe bet. Thanks to everyone's hard work in this thread, the small number of problem Zero's identified here, get fixed by the owners, and very, very few will ever have to return their Zero's to China for a fix. This thread has just about every fix known, and the help you can get here is some of the best I have seen on HeadFi. With this kind of backing, I would buy another Zero in a heart beat! You guys are the best!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Pench_

 

I AGREE with everything you said Pench, I am sure one off problems always crop up and even though I might be the unlucky one out here, I can vouch that the Zero is a terrific value and does sound fantastic for its price (even the way it is now on the headphones only ), and I also very confident with all the help around this place, my Zero will come alive SOOON !!


----------



## les_garten

Hello,
 Don't know if you guys know about this utility, but it is what I am using to burn in stuff now. Freeware that has rest periods that you can set.

Download section for Burninwave generator

 Les


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 I still believe buying a Zero is a safe bet. Thanks to everyone's hard work in this thread, the small number of problem Zero's identified here, get fixed by the owners, and very, very few will ever have to return their Zero's to China for a fix. This thread has just about every fix known, and the help you can get here is some of the best I have seen on HeadFi. With this kind of backing, I would buy another Zero in a heart beat! You guys are the best!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Pench_

 

Hi,
 I had also thought these were aberrations and read over LC's Ebay FB to see who complained about what. I didn't find any Zero problems. He had some other complaints for some other stuff, but if you've sold anything on Ebay, you know that can happen. However, it is disconcerting to fire up a box and have it go "poof" because the Opamps were installed backwards or the HDAM was connected backwards on one end. 

 I think he's doing well on these boxes if you look at what Chinese workers make. He should eat the shipping both ways if something has to go back to the Motherland due to ineptitude. That would kill his profit I am sure and that's why he doesn't want to do it.

 Les


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello,
 Don't know if you guys know about this utility, but it is what I am using to burn in stuff now. Freeware that has rest periods that you can set.

Download section for Burninwave generator

 Les_

 

Thanks Les, its going to be a great utility for me - just bought a pair of 701s 4 days ago..


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sandchak,

 Double check the 627 opamp in the dac section socket. If it's the AU form factor (the small adapter with an over under chip arrangement) it's possible it's been installed backwards or was poorly assembled. If it was then it will cook itself when you turn the unit on with little or vastly distorted signal being passed to the analog outs or the H/Amp section. That's one possibility, another is checking to make sure the H/Amp opamps are also installed correctly. The crescent or cutouts on the IC's themselves should all face towards the rear panel. If you can take a pic of the opamps as they are now before taking them out that would be very helpful. Post the pic and maybe we can spot something obvious.

 Another possibility, and this is a remote one, is the vol pot is bad or the relay used to engage the preamp is faulty. In any event the line out or line level should function if you are hearing faint music with the cans plugged in. 

 One more idea, do you have another amp to run that line level signal to (other than your computer speakers) to establish if it's a conflict with the computer speakers themselves. Like a cheap receiver or integrated amp with either a head phone output or hooked up to your speakers (a regular pair, not the computer speakers).

 One other test to try....isolate your computer speakers completely from the computer and only run the RCA outs from the Zero to the computer speaker inputs (2 channel stereo only) Make sure you have selected the Front pair of speakers if it's a MC setup. The only connection to the computer being the optical out.

 Another option to try is making sure you don't have a level in your CP mixer low or muted, a driver conflict or configuration problem (such as 5.1 vs 2.1 etc...).

 That's a lot of things to try and I hope you can get your problem nailed down soon. It seems to me that if you can hear music than it's a possible easy fix that is being overlooked somewhere.

 One last note...a blown opamp will pass some signal so that's no sign of them working properly. The gain level between a blown opamp and one working properly is huge.

 One more I thought of...pull the pcbs to check for shorts anywhere...untrimmed legs touching the chassis, sloppy solder clean up causing a short...gently, ever so slightly, flex the pcb's to see if anything changes while passing a signal through the DAC and H/Amp sections. Another trick is wiggle the 1/4 in jack in the Zero's H/Amp socket...it may have a cold solder joint, check the solder joints on the pot as well with a gentle flex of the pcb while powered. Visually inspect the pots solder points. 

 Make sure the 2 cables (of the 4 wires each) running to and from each board along the right hand side are fully seated and finally...make sure the two black power connectors are fully seated (one is the upper left hand side and the other a small 3pin on the H/amp board ).

 A real quick test to see if the 627 is buggered is to try one of the H/Amp opamps in the DAC section's socket. Again this will only allow for a line level output to another amp (with speakers).

 That should narrow a few of the possibilities that come to mind.

 Good luck and report back...

 Peete._

 

Hi Peete, I had some free time, so I took these 2 pics (sorry I have a horrible camera..).

 I think by the pics you can make out the the opamps are the type you mentioned and placed rightly.
 Actually from the beginning I have not involved the PC, just the CD player > Zero> Speakers (klipsch 2.0 active), I also ran the same setup minus the Zero from the headphone out of the CD player to the speakers and it worked fine.

 I should exclude problem with digital cables or speakers because it works fine in other setups.
 I also pulled out mt NAD C541i CD player and attached the ZERO useing the vandenhull RCS as coaxial - NO Sound again..
 All the wire connections you said to check, are placed as it should be.. I havent yet opened the board to see the stuffs behind, But I am waiting for the sellers reply, and I want to hear what he says before taking things apart..
 Well, its bad because I bought this ONLY for the speakers as the PH100 is on its way that I would use for the headphones..
 BTW, I just heard from a courier that 3 pcs of LM4562NA opamps should reach me tommorow?? Can I do anything with that? I have no clues about single and dual opamps, so I dont know if those can be placed on the ZERO opamps socket just to see if it makes any difference..

 I dont know how to thank you.. but then.. Thank you..


----------



## Sganzerla

Sandchak, check if the voltage switch at Zero's back is correct.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sandchak, check if the voltage switch at Zero's back is correct._

 

checked - its on 220 ( which is correct..)
 Thank you


----------



## DaMnEd

The unit would not turn on if that setting was incorrect, Georgia is 220V, if the voltage setting was to be incorrect (110V) the unit would have blown a couple of caps already, no lights, that's not the problem, do not touch that setting!

 EDIT
*sandchak *got it first


----------



## BigTony

Just for info : RE Buzzing Transformer in UK.

 I tried a step transformer 240 - 110 V, and then selected 110v on the amp, and all the transformer noise has gone, quiet as a mouse.

 Guess I'll look for a new transformer thats not going to buzz in the UK, better than a big lump tha I've then got to hide.

 Cheers


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_checked - its on 220 ( which is correct..)
 Thank you_

 

Does the headphone sound work well? Can you get high volume without distortion?


----------



## BigTony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just for info : RE Buzzing Transformer in UK.

 I tried a step transformer 240 - 110 V, and then selected 110v on the amp, and all the transformer noise has gone, quiet as a mouse.

 Guess I'll look for a new transformer thats not going to buzz in the UK, better than a big lump tha I've then got to hide.

 Cheers_

 

Grrr, spoke too soon  It was quiet for about 4 hours, but now its back to buzzin.. I'm guessing that all isn't well with this transformer.

 Bugger.


----------



## x_lk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Grrr, spoke too soon  It was quiet for about 4 hours, but now its back to buzzin.. I'm guessing that all isn't well with this transformer.

 Bugger._

 

Harmonics from a dirty power line may cause transformer to hum as well. Try another power bar or outlet if you can. Keep distance from high power appliances, such as oven and refrigerator. Just my two cents.


----------



## BigTony

It hums no matter where it gets plugged in, it starts off quiet then over 4+ hours it gets louder.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does the headphone sound work well? Can you get high volume without distortion?_

 

Works absolutely fine, yes it does seem to distort at very high volume, but the the 701s that I have is barely 5 days old and still in the process of burning..


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Works absolutely fine, yes it does seem to distort at very high volume, but the the 701s that I have is barely 5 days old and still in the process of burning.._

 

I may have spotted something in one of the pics you posted. There are 4 x 47uf 10V coupling caps (Elna Silmic) near the 2 voltage regulators on the lower right hand corner of the main pcb (if the front faceplate is towards you as normal).

 I can't tell for sure but it looks like one or all of those caps are not installed correctly according to their polarity. The shaded side silk screening on the pcb itself denotes - or negative pole. All electrolytic caps will have a negative indicator stripe (can't miss it ). Check the whole main board to make sure all the electrolytic caps are installed correctly just to be safe.

 Someone else of late had one those coupling caps installed incorrectly by the factory although he was still getting sound but at reduced output to that channel (it was one of four in backwards). 

 Hopefully that's the ticket. 

 Peete.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I may have spotted something in one of the pics you posted. There are 4 x 47uf 10V coupling caps (Elna Silmic) near the 2 voltage regulators on the lower right hand corner of the main pcb (if the front faceplate is towards you as normal).

 I can't tell for sure but it looks like one or all of those caps are not installed correctly according to their polarity. The shaded side silk screening on the pcb itself denotes - or negative pole. All electrolytic caps will have a negative indicator stripe (can't miss it ). Check the whole main board to make sure all the electrolytic caps are installed correctly just to be safe.

 Someone else of late had one those coupling caps installed incorrectly by the factory although he was still getting sound but at reduced output to that channel (it was one of four in backwards). 

 Hopefully that's the ticket. 

 Peete._

 

Thanks million, Peete, I will surely check on that.. in the meantime I have received 3 X LM4562NA opamps, can I replace that with the current 627 and see if its the opamp which maybe the culprit???...


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Grrr, spoke too soon  It was quiet for about 4 hours, but now its back to buzzin.. I'm guessing that all isn't well with this transformer.

 Bugger._

 

I ordered a DAC from Lawrence a few months back, which turned out to be faulty(think I might have been the first on here to get stung by him, he ignored me completely and I ended up instigating a chargeback against PayPal for the amount via my bank).

 Anyway, the DAC PCB was the cause of the fault. My recollection is that there was no hum from the transformer, but it was several months ago now.

 I've still got it here, you can have it for the cost of post and a pint of Guinness if you want? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## Kurotetsu

This has probably been asked several times before and I just can't find the posts...

 Payday is Friday and I plan on making a purchase (hopefully, provided I don't chicken out). Is the shenzhen Audio store/wsz0304 a good, reliable source for Zero DACs? He sells the upgraded version with the OPA627 opamp (it doesn't mention what's on the headphone section though):

ZERO 24/192 DAC DA CONVERTOR, HEAD AMP(Upgrade Version) - eBay (item 110287180536 end time Dec-06-08 13:00:00 PST)

 He has 100% good feedback which looks like a good sign.


----------



## crzystng

wsz0304 is who I purchased mine from and am pretty sure he is owner or at least partial owner of little dot. He was very helpful in my purchase of the I+ and ZERO combo.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *crzystng* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_wsz0304 is who I purchased mine from and am pretty sure he is owner or at least partial owner of little dot. He was very helpful in my purchase of the I+ and ZERO combo._

 

I second that, although my amp came in defective, he is a really nice guy and he is trying to help me out too just like people on the forum specially Peete, to get the Zero up and running..


----------



## fdbf

Hi there guys!

 Have someone of you tried the "cap snipping mod" cutting off those capacitors in the Dac and Pre-amp sections?

 I'd like to do it but i fear bad consequences, like sound becoming TOO bright for my ears.... anyone giving me some advice?

 Thanks


----------



## BigTony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered a DAC from Lawrence a few months back, which turned out to be faulty(think I might have been the first on here to get stung by him, he ignored me completely and I ended up instigating a chargeback against PayPal for the amount via my bank).

 Anyway, the DAC PCB was the cause of the fault. My recollection is that there was no hum from the transformer, but it was several months ago now.

 I've still got it here, you can have it for the cost of post and a pint of Guinness if you want? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ~Phewl._

 

Many many thanks, pm sent!! Buzzin is driving me (and therefore my family crazy)!
 Anyone else remove the batteries from clocks in their listening room due to the infernal ticking!! or is that just me?


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fdbf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi there guys!

 Have someone of you tried the "cap snipping mod" cutting off those capacitors in the Dac and Pre-amp sections?

 I'd like to do it but i fear bad consequences, like sound becoming TOO bright for my ears.... anyone giving me some advice?

 Thanks_

 

One person had undesirable consequences from doing this, which was that he found out how bright Grados are! Another, who already had a lot of hiss in his system, afterwards had more, as the caps are presumably there to filter out hiss. Unfortunately they also filter out detail.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I may have spotted something in one of the pics you posted. There are 4 x 47uf 10V coupling caps (Elna Silmic) near the 2 voltage regulators on the lower right hand corner of the main pcb (if the front faceplate is towards you as normal).

 I can't tell for sure but it looks like one or all of those caps are not installed correctly according to their polarity. The shaded side silk screening on the pcb itself denotes - or negative pole. All electrolytic caps will have a negative indicator stripe (can't miss it ). Check the whole main board to make sure all the electrolytic caps are installed correctly just to be safe.

 Someone else of late had one those coupling caps installed incorrectly by the factory although he was still getting sound but at reduced output to that channel (it was one of four in backwards). 

 Hopefully that's the ticket. 

 Peete._

 

Hi Peete,
 Today I had the time to see whats wrong with the Zero and I did everything you asked me to do:

 1)I opened out the board and inspected the back, I dont see any cold solder or anything shot (pic attached), I did a slight twisting of the board as suggested.

 2) The caps you had mentioned to check for polarity - everything perfect, infact I checked ALL caps on the both the boards and everything is soldered as it should be. (Pic attached)

 3) I swapped the OP627 opamp with the new LM 4562 - No difference ( Seller had writteb back asking me to check this too)

 4) switched from optical to coax - no difference

 Observations - When the headphone is NOT attached but headphone switch on the ZERO switched ON ( with coax or optical ON) at very High Volume on the ZERO, I can hear Faint ( very fain) music on the Speakers.

 NOW if I attach the headpnone on the ZERO, and SWITCH OFF, the headphone switch on ZERO and Raise the Volume, I can still hear music onmy headphone - again very faintly..

 I have a feeling, that when I swiched on the ZERO for the FIRST time, with the Headphones ON, within seconds I heard like something being fried inside the ZERO and the lights dimmed.

 I really dont think theres anything more I can do with my level of electronic knowledge...

 Let me know, if theres anything else I can..

 Thanks Peete and EVERYONE on the Forum !

 Sandeep


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kurotetsu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This has probably been asked several times before and I just can't find the posts...

 Payday is Friday and I plan on making a purchase (hopefully, provided I don't chicken out). Is the shenzhen Audio store/wsz0304 a good, reliable source for Zero DACs? He sells the upgraded version with the OPA627 opamp (it doesn't mention what's on the headphone section though):

ZERO 24/192 DAC DA CONVERTOR, HEAD AMP(Upgrade Version) - eBay (item 110287180536 end time Dec-06-08 13:00:00 PST)

 He has 100% good feedback which looks like a good sign._

 

I don't know the exact OpAmp number, something like 55532 or something. Needless to say, everyone here has replaced with something Like LT1364 or LT1361, etc. I talked to him and his "upgrades" only upgrade the DAC Opamp. No worries though, just order your free samples from Linear Technology when you order the Zero. You can order 5 sets of free Opamps from Linear as free samples. You may want to listen to the "stock" amps and then replace later to hear the difference.


----------



## finax

(to sandchak)

 I had also same kind of problems with the Zero´s preamp section.

 My case the problem was with the two wires,that goes mainboard to the headamp section.They were wrong way.They should go 1-3,2-4 (up to down mainboard 1,2 and headamp section 3,4)


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *finax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_(to sandchak)

 I had also same kind of problems with the Zero´s preamp section.

 My case the problem was with the two wires,that goes mainboard to the headamp section.They were wrong way.They should go 1-3,2-4 (up to down mainboard 1,2 and headamp section 3,4)_

 

This sounds very interesting, I just opened up the amp, there are 3 connectors on the main board which is attached to 3 on the headphone board, and I am a little confused as to which one should go where, if you can explain a little more, or maybe post a pic, I will be very grateful..


----------



## Pricklely Peete

sandchak,

 I also mentioned these wires in the original reply...it was easy to miss I suppose in my huge answer. The 3 wire connector (black wires) are for power only, the two 4 wire sections to and from the pre/head amp board to the main board are the analog (L/R channel pairs of + and - signals) lines...it's possible those are reversed as finax suggests.

 How to trouble shoot this section is not easily explained by text alone. Posting pics showing the cable runs and the wiring would help greatly so I can double check the connections. Label the the difference between the two cable runs (of 4 wires each) and to which connectors they are using (of the 4 on both boards)

 A really simple test to check pure DAC mode would be to pull the black 3 wire power connection from it 's connector (on the H/Amp board) and see if the line level signal in pure DAC mode will pass to your speakers. This powers down the entire H/Amp section from the main pcb circuit.

 Another simple test would be to pull the 2 four wire connectors from the H/Amp board effectively taking the entire H/Amp circuit out of the DAC circuit. The 3 wire power remains unconnected as well for this additional test.

 Make sure you note which 4 wire assembly was connected to it's respective slot, that way you'll know the original assembly positions. 

 I hope that isn't confusing...give it a try 

 Peete.


----------



## finax

PP,thanks for the extra clarification.I didn´t mention that there is also one power wire.


----------



## evangellydonut

just got one of these to use with the PH100  and got some free LT-1361 and LT-1364 to swap in! i wonder if anyone can find the schematics to this baby =P


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sandchak,

 I also mentioned these wires in the original reply...it was easy to miss I suppose in my huge answer. The 3 wire connector (black wires) are for power only, the two 4 wire sections to and from the pre/head amp board to the main board are the analog (L/R channel pairs of + and - signals) lines...it's possible those are reversed as finax suggests.

 How to trouble shoot this section is not easily explained by text alone. Posting pics showing the cable runs and the wiring would help greatly so I can double check the connections. Label the the difference between the two cable runs (of 4 wires each) and to which connectors they are using (of the 4 on both boards)

 A really simple test to check pure DAC mode would be to pull the black 3 wire power connection from it 's connector (on the H/Amp board) and see if the line level signal in pure DAC mode will pass to your speakers. This powers down the entire H/Amp section from the main pcb circuit.

 Another simple test would be to pull the 2 four wire connectors from the H/Amp board effectively taking the entire H/Amp circuit out of the DAC circuit. The 3 wire power remains unconnected as well for this additional test.

 Make sure you note which 4 wire assembly was connected to it's respective slot, that way you'll know the original assembly positions. 

 I hope that isn't confusing...give it a try 

 Peete._

 

Hi Peete,

 I am sure I overlooked that part, even though everything you have suggested, including this one is printed and stuck on the wall right in front of me!
 I have decided that, this weekend, I will start from the scratch and try everything suggested once again, and if it still fails work, it will be off to China with love, first thing Monday morning.

 Its just too painful to see something not performing, especially something that I had so much expectations, after reading so much about it...

 Will be back on Monday, either with the working or shipping status!

 Thank you extremely much for all your help, and everyone on the forum for the help..

 Sandeep


----------



## Kurotetsu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't know the exact OpAmp number, something like 55532 or something. Needless to say, everyone here has replaced with something Like LT1364 or LT1361, etc. I talked to him and his "upgrades" only upgrade the DAC Opamp. No worries though, just order your free samples from Linear Technology when you order the Zero. You can order 5 sets of free Opamps from Linear as free samples. You may want to listen to the "stock" amps and then replace later to hear the difference._

 

Sounds like a plan. I imagine, being socketed, they are easy to switch out? Just remove the case, pull out the old opamp and slide in the new one?

 For the free Linear Tech samples, you just sign up for a MyLinear account?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *evangellydonut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_just got one of these to use with the PH100  and got some free LT-1361 and LT-1364 to swap in! i wonder if anyone can find the schematics to this baby =P_

 

Hi, Let me know your impressions about PH100, and what Hps are you using them with... mine should be reaching soon..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kurotetsu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sounds like a plan. I imagine, being socketed, they are easy to switch out? Just remove the case, pull out the old opamp and slide in the new one?

 For the free Linear Tech samples, you just sign up for a MyLinear account?_

 

You're batting a thousand here! Be careful "wiggling" or "pulling" the amps. Easy to bend the pins. Take your time. I use a Jewelers screw driver and walk them up on each side a little at a time till I can pull them out with my fingers.


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You're batting a thousand here! Be careful "wiggling" or "pulling" the amps. Easy to bend the pins. Take your time. I use a Jewelers screw driver and walk them up on each side a little at a time till I can pull them out with my fingers._

 

An old computer chip puller works excellent also if you can find one....


----------



## Kurotetsu

Well, didn't bother waiting. The order is in. Hopefully everything goes well.


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

The colorful self can't irritate the spot.


----------



## helicopter34234

I have been listening to the stock opamp on my headphone amp in my zero for a week. I just received my LT1364's today and installed them immediately without attempting to ABX test them with the stock for difference in sound quality. However, a few hours later I had to stop what I was doing and just listen to the song, it really sounded good. I don't know if this is just the placebo effect or not. In everyone's experience, is the sound quality really that much better? I don't feel like pulling them back out to get a reference again from the stock opamps.

 Now this makes me wonder, how much better would a dedicated amp sound?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)

 I originally started my foray into high end headphones (about 2 months ago) because I couldn't tell the difference between cbr 128 KBs and lossless. I thought I lacked the equiptment. Well now with my Zero with upgraded opamps on the DAC and the Amp and Beyer DT770's I may or may not be able to tell the difference between 128 and lossless, maybe I just haven't found the right song. But at least I can definitely tell between 112 and lossless.


----------



## helicopter34234

Oh, and what's the update on Lawrence. Are people still buying from him? I just started my credit card chargeback to try and get back some of my money back from him (only put $160 of the $200 on my CC, the rest came from my PP balance).

 Oh, the functioning Zero I speak of above is from WSZ.


----------



## BigTony

Nauxolo: - Is you Zero stock, or upgraded opamps? I've listened a little via the h/a and found it fine, if not inspiring, but that was with HDAM in the DAC and LT1364 in the h/a - but the sound improve over time. Maybe upgrade your opamps, and get some time on it.


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

Is the happen concentrate better than the kick?


----------



## arfett

I'm about to get some samples of LT1361 & LT1364 from LT, but I'm not sure which one I'm supposed to be selecting out of the 3 options it gives you.













 Also, while I'm at it are there any others I should grab for future use?


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My zero dac came in today! 
 I tried it out, with my ATH-AD900... and to put it short I'm not too impressed. After a non-blind test, I admit it is much better than my creative x-fi xtrememusic. However, it is not much better (if not worse) than my cowon iaudio x5 music player. 

 Is there something funny happening? How can I bring out the best, so to speak, of this DAC? I'm using coaxial cable from blue jeans cable. So, it can't be my cable._

 

Which version did you get? The stock version? One of the upgraded models?


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My zero dac came in today! 
 I tried it out, with my ATH-AD900... and to put it short I'm not too impressed. After a non-blind test, I admit it is much better than my creative x-fi xtrememusic. However, it is not much better (if not worse) than my cowon iaudio x5 music player. 

 Is there something funny happening? How can I bring out the best, so to speak, of this DAC? I'm using coaxial cable from blue jeans cable. So, it can't be my cable._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I bought from ebay, with the title:

 " Zero DAC with the HDAM, LT1364, and upgraded ALPS volume pot". So, I believe it is upgraded opamps. I'll give it some time... 

 Oh yeah, does your unit have the volume knob sticking way out from the body, and not hugging the case? mine seems to jut out a bit._

 

Hey Nauxolo,

 All Zero's require time to mature, so plan on this part taking 100 hours or more. Your HDAM module needs time to mature, which can take even more time than the Zero does.

 Hang in there, and get some hours under the Zero's belt. You'll find the overall sound will fluctuate and in the end, stabilize to a super nice overall sound. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Most folks with the Alps pot upgrade, are buying nicer, heavier and better looking knobs for their Zeros. Parts ConneXion (HeadFi sponsor link on left side of screen) has several super nice knobs for sale. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You may have to shorten the shaft length, if the knob you decide to use, sticks out from the faceplate too far.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My zero dac came in today! 
 I tried it out, with my ATH-AD900... and to put it short I'm not too impressed. After a non-blind test, I admit it is much better than my creative x-fi xtrememusic. However, it is not much better (if not worse) than my cowon iaudio x5 music player. 

 Is there something funny happening? How can I bring out the best, so to speak, of this DAC? I'm using coaxial cable from blue jeans cable. So, it can't be my cable._

 

Snarky Comment about reading the thread edited...


----------



## les_garten

Hello,
 Ordered my Zero Late at night on Nov 7th, a Friday. Received it Following Friday, Nov 14th. Flawless. Except for the Fact that Lawrence, when he puts in the Alps Pots, doesn't cut the POT shaft. He may have a reason for that, like you may want to fit a different knob, I guess. Other than that, it is perfect in Cosmetics and function.


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

grin


----------



## Garret Jax

Is there a mod to force the Zero DAC to default to:

 1. Coax input (instead of optical)

 2. Phone (amp mode, instead of preamp mode)

 It's annoying that I have to hit two buttons - after a forced delay - to listen. I almost always use Coax in, amp mode.

 Any ideas on a mod to make this happen?

 Thanks!
 -Garret


----------



## Pricklely Peete

No mod I know that'll do that Garret....although I could be wrong. 

 Peete.


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

The right tourist thaws into the finicky release.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Garret Jax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there a mod to force the Zero DAC to default to:

 1. Coax input (instead of optical)

 2. Phone (amp mode, instead of preamp mode)

 It's annoying that I have to hit two buttons - after a forced delay - to listen. I almost always use Coax in, amp mode.

 Any ideas on a mod to make this happen?

 Thanks!
 -Garret_

 

I recall someone putting just the DAC board and transformer into another box, removing the front switches and headphone/pre amp altogether. When I asked how he switched to coax, he said it auto-sensed it. That wouldn't help with switching in the HP amp. I guess something would need to be done to the front switch circuits to make that happen.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sandchak,

 I also mentioned these wires in the original reply...it was easy to miss I suppose in my huge answer. The 3 wire connector (black wires) are for power only, the two 4 wire sections to and from the pre/head amp board to the main board are the analog (L/R channel pairs of + and - signals) lines...it's possible those are reversed as finax suggests.

 How to trouble shoot this section is not easily explained by text alone. Posting pics showing the cable runs and the wiring would help greatly so I can double check the connections. Label the the difference between the two cable runs (of 4 wires each) and to which connectors they are using (of the 4 on both boards)

 A really simple test to check pure DAC mode would be to pull the black 3 wire power connection from it 's connector (on the H/Amp board) and see if the line level signal in pure DAC mode will pass to your speakers. This powers down the entire H/Amp section from the main pcb circuit.

 Another simple test would be to pull the 2 four wire connectors from the H/Amp board effectively taking the entire H/Amp circuit out of the DAC circuit. The 3 wire power remains unconnected as well for this additional test.

 Make sure you note which 4 wire assembly was connected to it's respective slot, that way you'll know the original assembly positions. 

 I hope that isn't confusing...give it a try 

 Peete._

 

Hi Peete,
 Seems like I am having a good day today after all the hassles with non performing Zero, I was about to ship it back today, when I got an email from the seller Mr Wong (EBAY ID wsz0304) that he would ship me a brand new Zero Board (tested) GRATIS !! and I could keep the other board which doesnt function fully.. now this is what I call Great Service.. I am really very impressed by the way he and his assistant communicated with me and now this welcome gesture.. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED !!
 Btw, I got my PH 100 this morning too and its been on the burn for the last 6 hours.. my my, what a build, I mean it looks really rock solid and to add to it all, its really brought in the much wanted warmth and mellow in my 701s - I am sure its going to get better as time goes by, currently its hooked up with my NAD c541i > Van den Hul hybrids > PH100 > 701s .. I am thoroughly enjoying..
 Decided to use the Zero when its up, only as a DAC to my PC setup..
 Thanks for all the help
 Sandeep
 PS. still cant get in touch with my friend in the States......


----------



## bundee1

WSZ 0304 is the real deal! Good to hear he came through for you. Let us know when you get it and if its a total fix.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WSZ 0304 is the real deal! Good to hear he came through for you. Let us know when you get it and if its a total fix._

 

Sure is.. only hope the new board sorts the problem.. in any case, it takes nothing away from the sellers excellent service..


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Peete,
 Seems like I am having a good day today after all the hassles with non performing Zero, I was about to ship it back today, when I got an email from the seller Mr Wong (EBAY ID wsz0304) that he would ship me a brand new Zero Board (tested) GRATIS !! and I could keep the other board which doesnt function fully.. now this is what I call Great Service.. 

 <snip>_

 

Now, that is excellent. That's how customer service should be, rather than that ignorant and totally useless twerp I had the misfortune of buying from...

 Glad you got a good result 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now, that is excellent. That's how customer service should be, rather than that ignorant and totally useless twerp I had the misfortune of buying from...

 Glad you got a good result 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl._

 

Yikes - guess nothing ever got resolved then? Did you at least get money back from paypal?


----------



## Deftoned

Hey all!

 I recently bought a HA ELEC mini dac from AudiophileChina. It uses the same DAC-chip as the Zero aswell as the same type of OPA's. I haven't gotten around to switch them out yet, although I already have a pair of LT1364's at hand. I was just wondering if it's possible to use 3*1364 in the Zero, because I have not seen any info on it. I'm also wondering if anyone is selling a 2*627 on a brown dog, I'm interested in it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I do not think a HDAM will fit though...

 I hope I'm not derailing anything here!

 Cheers!


----------



## svanholm

A couple of weeks ago I got the Zero (HDAM/LT1364/alps/usb adapt) from Lawrence. I payed USD 275 incl airmail. Took 10 days ab HK to my place here in beautiful Horn Shire. When I ordered the Zero I was (wonderfully) unaware of the problems people have had with their Zeros from Lawrence. To make it short: I have enjoyed my Zero for a couple of weeks now playing optically out of my mac into the Zero using etys/senn650/senn280pro/SansuiSS100 (Lucinda Williams/Bob Dylan/Miles Davies/GoldbergVar/Trentemoller/Zero7/Cream). Further I feel the need to say that I had no problems whatsoever with Lawrence (fine communication etc) and the Zero just gets better by the bit. PS I'm new on this forum - love it...


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *svanholm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A couple of weeks ago I got the Zero (HDAM/LT1364/alps/usb adapt) from Lawrence. I payed USD 275 incl airmail. Took 10 days ab HK to my place here in beautiful Horn Shire. When I ordered the Zero I was (wonderfully) unaware of the problems people have had with their Zeros from Lawrence. To make it short: I have enjoyed my Zero for a couple of weeks now playing optically out of my mac into the Zero using etys/senn650/senn280pro/SansuiSS100 (Lucinda Williams/Bob Dylan/Miles Davies/GoldbergVar/Trentemoller/Zero7/Cream). Further I feel the need to say that I had no problems whatsoever with Lawrence (fine communication etc) and the Zero just gets better by the bit. PS I'm new on this forum - love it..._

 

Glad to hear it!


----------



## Chriselv

Hello!

 I'm new to this forum and I have have a few questions about the Zero DAC. This is probably not the right forum to ask, but it seems like this is the most active thread on this DAC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm considering buying a Zero DAC but I'll only use it as a external DAC connection between my PC and my reciever (not as a headphone amp). 

 My questions are: 
 Is this a good DAC (considering the price (~170$ including shipping)?
 How expensive CD players will it outperform?
 And the last but most important question: Is it a better DAC than the NAD T753's DAC?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Chriselv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello!

 I'm new to this forum and I have have a few questions about the Zero DAC. This is probably not the right forum to ask, but it seems like this is the most active thread on this DAC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm considering buying a Zero DAC but I'll only use it as a external DAC connection between my PC and my reciever (not as a headphone amp). 

 My questions are: 
 Is this a good DAC (considering the price (~170$ including shipping)?
 How expensive CD players will it outperform?
 And the last but most important question: Is it a better DAC than the NAD T753's DAC?_

 

You are the right place, and I am sure soon you will have all the answers you need.
 I am as new as you are, so I rather wait and watch !!


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Chriselv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello!

 I'm new to this forum and I have have a few questions about the Zero DAC. This is probably not the right forum to ask, but it seems like this is the most active thread on this DAC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm considering buying a Zero DAC but I'll only use it as a external DAC connection between my PC and my reciever (not as a headphone amp). 

 My questions are: 
 Is this a good DAC (considering the price (~170$ including shipping)?
 How expensive CD players will it outperform?
 And the last but most important question: Is it a better DAC than the NAD T753's DAC?_

 

Oh Btw, if you finally decide to get one and from ebay, get it from seller wsz0304 , he is most favored in the forum for his impeccable service.. well, thats how far my contribution goes..


----------



## shampoosuicide

I'm picking up a DV332 tomorrow, and will be running it out of my Zero.

 I have a few questions:

 1) How do I connect the two? 
 2) Do I turn on the preamp function on my Zero?
 3) At what hour should I set the volume pot on my Zero at?
 4) How do I burn in the 332, or use it on a daily basis? I understand it has to warm for 30 min before it sounds its best. Do I turn it off when I'm not using it, or do I just leave it on?

 Thanks!


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shampoosuicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm picking up a DV332 tomorrow, and will be running it out of my Zero.

 I have a few questions:

 1) How do I connect the two?_

 

Standard RCA cables.

  Quote:


 2) Do I turn on the preamp function on my Zero? 
 

No, because the DV has a volume control (as far as I know).

  Quote:


 3) At what hour should I set the volume pot on my Zero at? 
 

N/A

  Quote:


 4) How do I burn in the 332, or use it on a daily basis? I understand it has to warm for 30 min before it sounds its best. Do I turn it off when I'm not using it, or do I just leave it on? 
 

Use it. That's the most fun.


----------



## shampoosuicide

Thanks Curra 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A few more questions:
 What exactly is the role of the preamp then? The DAC section will still work as per normal when I connect the DV? Also, does this mean that it doesn't matter what volume the Zero is set at?


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shampoosuicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Curra 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A few more questions:
 What exactly is the role of the preamp then? The DAC section will still work as per normal when I connect the DV? Also, does this mean that it doesn't matter what volume the Zero is set at?_

 

This will all make more sense once you have it and can play around with it, but to answer...

 The preamp is for a few things, but normally, amps don't have volume controls, that's what preamps are for - but in your case your DV will have a volume control, so you won't need the preamp function. And of course, the preamp is also the headamp - so if you didn't have a DV you could use the Zero by itself.

 Essentially, when you enable the preamp, the signal goes thru the DAC and it's opamp (or HDAM) and THEN thru the Zero's amp and its opamps. If you disable the preamp, the signal will only pass thru the DAC and its opamp and will skip the Zero's amp. This is, IMO, the best way to use it with another amp - keep the signal as clean as possible is what I think. When you use it in this way the Zero's volume will have no effect.

 But there's certainly nothing stopping you from using the preamp even with your DV. At the end of the day it's about your preference, and the best part is playing with it and figuring out what that preference is!


----------



## Scottyyy

This thread is still going strong I see. Haven't posted in here in months. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just a quick question guys. Has anyone used their Zero with Markl modded D2000s or D5000s? I'm thinking of trading my HD650s for a pair, but I don't plan on changing my Zero.

 This thread is far too big to search through.


----------



## shampoosuicide

Hi guys, I just got my DV332, and am having some problems with the Zero's RCA connector.

 It seems that it's a bit loose, and the RCA cables won't fit properly. So there's no sound unless I hold the RCA cables up. I imagine this could be worked around with some blutac, but should I send it for repair?


----------



## Ivion

Greetings everyone, it sure was one heck of a job reading through this entire thread... yet it made the waiting for my very own Zero DAC/amp much more bearable. I ordered my Zero from Lawrence when I was still only somewhere around page 200 of this humongous thread and only read about his failing quality control when it was too late...

 My Zero arrived yesterday morning and from the get-go I heard there was something amiss with the sound, every time I turned the volume control on the Zero I could hear distortion, but only in the left channel. Figuring it probably had something to do with headamp section of the unit I first checked if my ALPS pot (which Lawrence had installed) was properly grounded, which it was. After that I decided to check if there was no distortion if I used the RCA-outs connected to my integrated amp... the distortion did not pass. This was somewhat odd, because now the distortion (still only in the left channel) appeared when I turned the volume control on my integrated amp.

 Undaunted I unseated one of the LT1364 which were used in the headamp section and put it in the DAC section instead of the HDAM. After listening for a short while through my integrated amp I could no longer detect any distortion when I changed the volume (because I've got no spare opamps I naturally couldn't use the headamp section as well). When I was about to reinstall the HDAM I noticed that some of the wires of the extension wire weren't soldered quite properly, so I set out to resolder those few wires which didn't seem to have been done properly.

 Now I tried again, with the repaired (or so I hoped) wire... but still the distortion was apparent. Getting kind of desperate I then tried to free the HDAM from the encasing, to which it was stuck with some kind of dual-sided adhesive tape and after some work with a knife and a flat screwdriver I succeeded in doing so. Now I could plug the HDAM directly into the socket without the need of the extension cable, and what did you know? No more distortion in the left channel while changing the volume! Be it with the volume control on the Zero itself or with the one on my integrated amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thinking I was out of the woods I set out to spend some quality listening time with this DAC/amp, but sadly I was mistaken... Because after some time listening I noticed that there sometimes were slightly audible 'pops', which sounded somewhat akin to the sound you hear when the needle of an element passed a bit of dust on a vinyl record or, I would guess, to the sound of a small electrical (static?) discharge. Strangely enough these still only occurred in the left channel.
 And ultimately it is this that I want to pose you all a few questions about. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Of course, the general question would be: what is causing this? Could it be that in my heroic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 attempts to free the HDAM from the case might have damaged it? Could it have been damaged because some of the extension wires weren't connecting properly to the module? Or could it be something entirely different, like the grounding of the HDAM? Or maybe a miscellaneous problem unrelated to the HDAM?

 Any help at all would be much appreciated and I'm already planning to order one or two new modules straight from GD-audio itself including a better extension wire, but would like to postpone such things if I can get the sound coming from the Zero working properly.

 PS: I appreciate you reading that large post... if indeed ye did not scroll past it!


----------



## djchaz

Random question, which would theoretically sound better:

 -the Zero dac connected to a laptop via the Xitel USB converter

 or 

 -the Zero dac connected to a laptop via an inserted an X-fi soundcard with an optical in/out.

 Thanks!


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

Did the authentic brush really sin the history?


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it normal for the left channel of my headphones connected to the headphone amp to have static when I turn up the potentiometer? There's lots of static..._

 

My Zero is like that.


----------



## cuoreboy

this my zero mod


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cuoreboy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_this my zero mod



_

 

very nice indeed.. I wonder how you fit the HDAM and still able to close the top lid.. I use to hear it had to be placed somewhere else via extension cables to get the cover on..


----------



## sandchak

Take a closer look and I really like this, how did you manage to get the HP section off??.. I am really interested to know because I intend to use the Zeros only as a DAC ONLY..


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Scottyyy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This thread is still going strong I see. Haven't posted in here in months. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just a quick question guys. Has anyone used their Zero with Markl modded D2000s or D5000s? I'm thinking of trading my HD650s for a pair, but I don't plan on changing my Zero.

 This thread is far too big to search through. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes, I have. They work fine. Because they are low impedance headphones you might get a small amount of hiss.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shampoosuicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys, I just got my DV332, and am having some problems with the Zero's RCA connector.

 It seems that it's a bit loose, and the RCA cables won't fit properly. So there's no sound unless I hold the RCA cables up. I imagine this could be worked around with some blutac, but should I send it for repair?_

 

Sounds like a solder joint between the RCA sockets and the board has broken.

 Regarding static with HDAMs, yes, I've had it. When testing the Sun, if it was plugged into the DAC section, I'd get heaps of static as I adjusted the volume. I also had a hum in one channel with one of the Sun HDAMs I have here. I strongly suspect it has to do with the opamp socket and bad contact between the pins and the socket. 

 By the way, for everyone else who hasn't seen yet (as it's not in my sig atm):

Introduction to the Zero DAC and Headphone amplifier. - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio


----------



## Seba

My Zero is broken. Won't output any sound anymore but seems to get a "lock" on the signal. I've tested with various sources and various op-amps.

 I just send Lawrence an email asking if he could send me new main board PCB.

 Hope everything turns ok.


----------



## BigTony

Quick 'buring in question'.
 When I get my new HDAMs, can I put them in the H/A section (along with HDAM Earth in DAC) and plug phones in to speed up burn in time? Or won't it power 3 HDAMs at the same time?
 I don't use the H/A section much, mainly used a DAC for my DV 332.

 Cheers


----------



## Currawong

It'll power 3 HDAMs at the same time with no problems in my testing.


----------



## fault151

Does anyone want to buy my Zero from me? It comes with opa 627's on a brown dog adaptor and upgraded op amps in the headphone section.

*PM me for more details.*

I have just made a buffalo dac and i already own an opus dac + beresford dac so one of them has to go.


----------



## oofie810

Anyone here have a spare HDAM that they would want to sell? I'd be interested in buying if you're not using it anymore.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oofie810* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone here have a spare HDAM that they would want to sell? I'd be interested in buying if you're not using it anymore._

 

theres one in ebay now :

Brand-New Audio-GD Dual-OPA HDAM Earth Opamp w/ Extras! - eBay (item 290275503113 end time Nov-22-08 06:46:52 PST)

 and currently I am the highest bidder!!!


----------



## oofie810

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_theres one in ebay now :

Brand-New Audio-GD Dual-OPA HDAM Earth Opamp w/ Extras! - eBay (item 290275503113 end time Nov-22-08 06:46:52 PST)

 and currently I am the highest bidder!!!_

 

thanks, too bad he only has one...looks like I should also bid on this one


----------



## shampoosuicide

I just acquired a used DV332 with Ulyanovsk 6S19P-V and Mullard M8110 tubes to pair with my HD595. The bass seems to be (unusually) too pronounced and overpowering, and sounds very muddy, as if the higher frequencies have been lost. It sounds a lot like the Zero before I snipped off the caps at the headamp section and RCA jacks. Malos, who had the 332+595 combo said he did not have the impression, and I haven't heard complaints like this from 650 owners.

 Could this be due to the iffy RCA jack on my Zero? The RCA cables fit very loosely (as in the holes of the RCA jack seem a little too large), and I had to use a lot of blutack and do a lot of adjustment before I could get a signal.


----------



## cuoreboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_very nice indeed.. I wonder how you fit the HDAM and still able to close the top lid.. I use to hear it had to be placed somewhere else via extension cables to get the cover on.._

 

my Zero cant put the top cover i just open like that hehehe i prefer not using extension cable shorter is better 
 more close up picture
 wut i mod :-
 Putting Panasonic FC for Power section , Elna RJH for opamp supply , Nichicon Muse for DAC , Elna Silmic II and Silmic for regulator, puting 6N silver wire for RCA output with Neutrik RCA female plug.


----------



## BigTony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shampoosuicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just acquired a used DV332 with Ulyanovsk 6S19P-V and Mullard M8110 tubes to pair with my HD595. The bass seems to be (unusually) too pronounced and overpowering, and sounds very muddy, as if the higher frequencies have been lost. It sounds a lot like the Zero before I snipped off the caps at the headamp section and RCA jacks. Malos, who had the 332+595 combo said he did not have the impression, and I haven't heard complaints like this from 650 owners.

 Could this be due to the iffy RCA jack on my Zero? The RCA cables fit very loosely (as in the holes of the RCA jack seem a little too large), and I had to use a lot of blutack and do a lot of adjustment before I could get a signal._

 

Poor contact is really going to compromise the signal. You need to get all the jacks tight fitting, how come they were so loose?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cuoreboy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_my Zero cant put the top cover i just open like that hehehe i prefer not using extension cable shorter is better 
 more close up picture
 wut i mod :-
 Putting Panasonic FC for Power section , Elna RJH for opamp supply , Nichicon Muse for DAC , Elna Silmic II and Silmic for regulator, puting 6N silver wire for RCA output with Neutrik RCA female plug.



_

 

Very nice indeed.. Thank God I am blind and not deaf....


----------



## djchaz

If I wanted to hook up a Zero dac to my laptop, how would something like the Xitel converter with a USB connection compare to having a plugging in soundcard and conneting it via an optical cord? Is there much sound quality difference between the two?
 I'm thinking about getting an X-fi sound card but I wasn't sure how this would compare tothe USB connection route. Thanks.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yikes - guess nothing ever got resolved then? Did you at least get money back from paypal?_

 

Hiya Scottie,

 Paypal washed their hands of me instantly. The item was not purchased through eBay, and as-such the Paypal "protection" is utterly worthless. Because my issue was with the quality of the product, and not with a missing product, they quite literally shut down my dispute immediately(despite me submitting several emails without response from the seller), finding that the seller had completed their obligations. This is despite the unit shipping with scratches on it, no sound from one channel, and standard opamps when the order clearly stated the purchase was of the unit with uprated opamps.

 A lot of people on here seemed to think that I was over-reacting, and that Lawrence would come good in the end. He never made contact again, and more and more people on here started to come forward with problems with their purchase - from incorrectly installed opamps, and standard opamps rather than the paid-for upgraded items, to units built with incorrectly-orientated capacitors, and failing to work at all.

 I ended up talking with my bank and having a chargeback issued against Paypal. With a little luck they'll deduct the money from the seller 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 It seems I was the first to encounter his period of selling after he paid less attention and put in less and less effort. Another member has emailed me, with similar contact problems with Lawrence, and has also had to instigate a chargeback after Paypal washed their hands of it all.

 Paypal and Lawrence are as useful as each other.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## djchaz

Also, would something like the Zero's DAC totally cancel out the DAC of a soundcard? Probably a stupid question.


----------



## AudioPhewl

djchaz - you posted the same question at 42 minutes past the hour, and 49 minutes past the hour. You need to give folks a chance to respond! Someone will chime in with their opinion over the course of the next few hours 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_djchaz - you posted the same question at 42 minutes past the hour, and 49 minutes past the hour. You need to give folks a chance to respond! Someone will chime in with their opinion over the course of the next few hours 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl_

 

Yes, check penchum's sig for a review of the laptop x-fi card. to his ears, it makes a pretty big difference. Those USB things can be shoddy, normally don't handle the high resolutions an audio card can, and (this last oone is personal preference but...) I don't like tying up my already over-busy USB bus with yet another device (one that needs to be as clean as possible).


----------



## DaMnEd

Always best to avoid unnecessary conversions, less jitter.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hiya Scottie,

 Paypal washed their hands of me instantly. 
 SNIP
 Paypal and Lawrence are as useful as each other.

 ~Phewl._

 

man that sucks - sorry to hear it! As someone who just a few weeks ago had to deal with chargebacks - I know how much it sucks. Why is it that we have to wait months for the bank to fix something someone else screwed up? Oh well. Hope it works out.


----------



## djchaz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_djchaz - you posted the same question at 42 minutes past the hour, and 49 minutes past the hour. You need to give folks a chance to respond! Someone will chime in with their opinion over the course of the next few hours 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl_

 

Sorry, man. When I tried to post my question it sent me to some advertisement page so I went back and posted it again. My bad.


----------



## shampoosuicide

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Poor contact is really going to compromise the signal. You need to get all the jacks tight fitting, how come they were so loose?_

 

I have no idea 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've only had the Zero for about a month and yesterday was the first time I had to use the RCA jacks. Come to think of it, the optical jack is a bit loose as well.


----------



## shampoosuicide

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shampoosuicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just acquired a used DV332 with Ulyanovsk 6S19P-V and Mullard M8110 tubes to pair with my HD595. The bass seems to be (unusually) too pronounced and overpowering, and sounds very muddy, as if the higher frequencies have been lost. It sounds a lot like the Zero before I snipped off the caps at the headamp section and RCA jacks. Malos, who had the 332+595 combo said he did not have the impression, and I haven't heard complaints like this from 650 owners.

 Could this be due to the iffy RCA jack on my Zero? The RCA cables fit very loosely (as in the holes of the RCA jack seem a little too large), and I had to use a lot of blutack and do a lot of adjustment before I could get a signal._

 

Anyone else can chime in on this?

 Because I'm seriously considering selling the DV332, but if the problem lies with the Zero, then I'll send it back to get fixed.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_man that sucks - sorry to hear it! As someone who just a few weeks ago had to deal with chargebacks - I know how much it sucks. Why is it that we have to wait months for the bank to fix something someone else screwed up? Oh well. Hope it works out._

 

It's just a PITA, to be honest. Still, it's not been a wasted effort. I've got all my cash back now, and the transformer has been mailed out to a fellow chap in the UK who received a Zero with a buzzing transformer. Figured the least I could do was make good where possible on Lawrence's failed customer service 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 Thought I'd do alright out of the deal. Told him to bung me £5 to cover the cost of post and packing, and leave me with enough for a beer. Bought a new reel of packing tape for a pound, spent 30 minutes stripping the Zero down to get the transformer out without snipping any of the wires(have to remove both front and rear plates to get at the sockets and power switches). Went to the Post Office today to mail it to him... £4.30! After buying the tape, I'm currently running at a loss! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Still, I get to sleep easier at night, knowing I've done something good today 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djchaz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry, man. When I tried to post my question it sent me to some advertisement page so I went back and posted it again. My bad._

 

No problem mate. Just thought I'd say something rather than have a new member wonder why nobody was talking to him 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Doorknob

I was enjoying my FrankenZero as usual with my new HA-RX900 cans until suddenly it just sort of, died. There were no snap crackle pops in the case or the cans. Just suddenly went silent. The lights inside the case and the front (with buttons and all) still works but no sound comes out. Definitely not my headphones; there's several other sources such as my soundcard for that. Also for additional note, the FrankenZero mod was done about 2-3 weeks ago.

 This happened during when I was listening. The first thing I did was just give it some small whacks and apparently when that didn't fix it, I went on to do some surgery on my Zero for any bad joints (I'll admit I used a terrible 25W soldering iron. It literally had no tip, just a 1cm diameter cylinder thing.). I've also checked to see if any there were any possible wirings that could touch other wires. Finding none, I just closed it up and ran Zero.

 I still got the same outcome, no sound. At this stage, I have no idea what can be wrong with my Zero. I'll be posting pics later when I can find the time.

 Also is it normal if the power supply (huge circle thing I believe) feels about the same as room temperature? All my other components seems to run hotter then the power supply. I can hear some hum coming from the FrankenZero when volume is way up with headphones but when music is played, none of that instruments I long for comes out.

 Edit: Don't know how to do those little thumbnail picture things and since there's quite a lot of pictures taken, I've decided to take the liberty of uploading them through Mediafire. 16 total.

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?oj1mwqmn4jn


----------



## MikeW

Im thinking of buying a Zero, I noticed there's a pre-moded one on ebay with HDAM, LT1364 and Upgraded volume pot, is this the best Zero combination? and this one is sold by Lawrence which i've heard has been dropping the ball lately, there's also another version sold, it looks like a stock Zero with OPA627's installed in the headphone amp, sold by wcz guy.. which one of these would be best.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MikeW* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Im thinking of buying a Zero, I noticed there's a pre-moded one on ebay with HDAM, LT1364 and Upgraded volume pot, is this the best Zero combination? and this one is sold by Lawrence which i've heard has been dropping the ball lately, there's also another version sold, it looks like a stock Zero with OPA627's installed in the headphone amp, sold by wcz guy.. which one of these would be best._

 

Zero wise, offcourse the one that lawrence sells, seller wise wsz0304 is a far better seller as far as service goes, and may would agree in this forum.


----------



## athenaesword

with the UBS--> optical converter will it still be able to put out 24bit/192? the zero doesn't have a usb connection on its own right?

 lastly, is there any way to bypass the preamp?


----------



## sennsay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *athenaesword* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_with the UBS--> optical converter will it still be able to put out 24bit/192? the zero doesn't have a usb connection on its own right?

 lastly, is there any way to bypass the preamp?_

 


 Hello there, athenasword, as far as I know the USB/optical converter - which I also have - works just fine with 24/192 and actually gives quite brilliant results even with high modded gear like the FrankenZero, that a few of us have. 
 Yes, the pre-amp is easily bypassed by pushing the button labeled "Preamp" until the green light goes off, then the signal is routed straight out of the DAC, bypassing both the amp and the volume control. 
 Cheers, S-Man


----------



## helicopter34234

Lawrence's ebay account is biglawhk. IMHO do not buy from him.


----------



## athenaesword

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sennsay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello there, athenasword, as far as I know the USB/optical converter - which I also have - works just fine with 24/192 and actually gives quite brilliant results even with high modded gear like the FrankenZero, that a few of us have. 
 Yes, the pre-amp is easily bypassed by pushing the button labeled "Preamp" until the green light goes off, then the signal is routed straight out of the DAC, bypassing both the amp and the volume control. 
 Cheers, S-Man 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

that's exactly what i need man, thanks!! I was under the impression that USB is limited to 16bit/48kHz

 i've seen a couple of these frankenzeroes online, how much more do they cost compared to the standard zeroes? and do they make any improvements to the DAC or issit in the amp section? i'm planning on purchasing a DAC for a set of active monitors


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *athenaesword* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_that's exactly what i need man, thanks!! I was under the impression that USB is limited to 16bit/48kHz

 i've seen a couple of these frankenzeroes online, how much more do they cost compared to the standard zeroes? and do they make any improvements to the DAC or issit in the amp section? i'm planning on purchasing a DAC for a set of active monitors_

 

Actually little over 50 bucks and you can have your Zero Frankenstined, I heard it makes hell of a difference, so much that some folks after mods have given up the idea of getting a dedicated headphone amp. You can PM - Pricklely Peete (Guru on Zeros), I believe he still has a few sets of caps etc, you will need for the mod.. I am trying to get one set down for myself too..


----------



## athenaesword

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually little over 50 bucks and you can have your Zero Frankenstined, I heard it makes hell of a difference, so much that some folks after mods have given up the idea of getting a dedicated headphone amp. You can PM - Pricklely Peete (Guru on Zeros), I believe he still has a few sets of caps etc, you will need for the mod.. I am trying to get one set down for myself too.._

 

are you intending to mod this yourself? or are there people who sell modded versions? 

 again i need to ask if this improvement is on the amp side of things or the dac? because i'm going to use active monitors and those already have their own amps so the zero's amp will probably be bypassed.


----------



## shampoosuicide

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shampoosuicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just acquired a used DV332 with Ulyanovsk 6S19P-V and Mullard M8110 tubes to pair with my HD595. The bass seems to be (unusually) too pronounced and overpowering, and sounds very muddy, as if the higher frequencies have been lost. It sounds a lot like the Zero before I snipped off the caps at the headamp section and RCA jacks. Malos, who had the 332+595 combo said he did not have the impression, and I haven't heard complaints like this from 650 owners.

 Could this be due to the iffy RCA jack on my Zero? The RCA cables fit very loosely (as in the holes of the RCA jack seem a little too large), and I had to use a lot of blutack and do a lot of adjustment before I could get a signal._

 

Anyone else can chime in on this?

 Because I'm seriously considering selling the DV332, but if the problem lies with the Zero, then I'll send it back to get fixed.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *athenaesword* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_are you intending to mod this yourself? or are there people who sell modded versions? 

 again i need to ask if this improvement is on the amp side of things or the dac? because i'm going to use active monitors and those already have their own amps so the zero's amp will probably be bypassed._

 

Well, I'll be doing it myself, like many in the forum, I do not think there are any sources where you can aquire a ready made Franken Zero, and infact, this mod covers all sections of the Zero, and if you wish, you could skip the HP board, but thats the smallest mod in the entire process.

 Take a look at this page, its all there..

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/fra...5/#post4843415


----------



## athenaesword

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I'll be doing it myself, like many in the forum, I do not think there are any sources where you can aquire a ready made Franken Zero, and infact, this mod covers all sections of the Zero, and if you wish, you could skip the HP board, but thats the smallest mod in the entire process.

 Take a look at this page, its all there..

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/fra...5/#post4843415_

 

okay i'll take a look at that. btw could you comment on the 24bit/192khz from the USB? is the dac upsampling the 24bit/192khz from the 16bit out of the USB, or is the USB feeding 24bit out to the dac?


----------



## seaice

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *athenaesword* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_okay i'll take a look at that. btw could you comment on the 24bit/192khz from the USB? is the dac upsampling the 24bit/192khz from the 16bit out of the USB, or is the USB feeding 24bit out to the dac?_

 

There is no USB input on the DAC. The DAC has only two digital inputs - optical and coaxial - so you need a soundcard with optical or coaxial digital output to feed the DAC.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MikeW* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Im thinking of buying a Zero, I noticed there's a pre-moded one on ebay with HDAM, LT1364 and Upgraded volume pot, is this the best Zero combination? and this one is sold by Lawrence which i've heard has been dropping the ball lately, there's also another version sold, it looks like a stock Zero with OPA627's installed in the headphone amp, sold by wcz guy.. which one of these would be best._

 

Hi,
 Lawrence has had some issues. However, I just bought one from him. I ordered it on Saturday, and it was in my hands the following Thurs. One thing he has the others don't have on theirs is the Alps Volume pot. High quality and clean sounding. He also installs and sells the HDAM, that the others don't have, that you will want if you read the thread. I would definitely order it from him on Ebay, so you can bang him with some Bad feedback if anything goes wrong. I understand the concern here though.

 With all due respect though, if you have a problem with an asian, you should be polite about it. Just watch Shogun if you don't know what I mean. They can be easily offended by our western barbarian ways. I'm just being a realist here. I would order from him again with my experience.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shampoosuicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone else can chime in on this?

 Because I'm seriously considering selling the DV332, but if the problem lies with the Zero, then I'll send it back to get fixed._

 

You need to isolate the two components to see which is causing the trouble. If you can reproduce the issue, take the DV 332 off the dac, send it the same music and see if the problem goes away whe listening to the dac alone or the DV alone. Listen to the Zero/Dac with the zero's Head amp, see if the problem is there without the DV. Basic troubleshooting here.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,
 Lawrence has had some issues. However, I just bought one from him. I ordered it on Saturday, and it was in my hands the following Thurs. One thing he has the others don't have on theirs is the Alps Volume pot. High quality and clean sounding. He also installs and sells the HDAM, that the others don't have, that you will want if you read the thread. I would definitely order it from him on Ebay, so you can bang him with some Bad feedback if anything goes wrong. I understand the concern here though.

 With all due respect though, if you have a problem with an asian, you should be polite about it. Just watch Shogun if you don't know what I mean. They can be easily offended by our western barbarian ways. I'm just being a realist here. I would order from him again with my experience._

 

I am glad you have had a good transaction with Lawrence, generally speaking, he had an extremely good reputation out here in the forum when things started to go bad.
 Since you have bought the moded Zero from Lawrence, I have a question:
 What is the HDAM he uses on his moded Zeros? Burnson??..

 Here is my corrospondence with lawrence on this issue:


 Dear biglawhk,

 Hi, Your listing says free shipping, what mode of 
 shipping would you use to ship to Georgia (NOT 
 USA) ? and what HDAM module are you using Earth 
 or SUN? 
 Let me know 
 Thanks

 and his answer:

 Dear sir ,

 It is by air mail. Burson HDAM which is the most serious built HDAM and the number of FETs and transistors is more than the other HDAM.

 Thank you very much !

 Best regards,
 Lawrence


 Its not about Asian, European or American, its about truth and lie - I decided not to buy from him..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am glad you have had a good transaction with Lawrence, generally speaking, he had an extremely good reputation out here in the forum when things started to go bad.
 Since you have bought the moded Zero from Lawrence, I have a question:
 What is the HDAM he uses on his moded Zeros? Burnson??..

 Here is my corrospondence with lawrence on this issue:


 Dear biglawhk,

 Hi, Your listing says free shipping, what mode of 
 shipping would you use to ship to Georgia (NOT 
 USA) ? and what HDAM module are you using Earth 
 or SUN? 
 Let me know 
 Thanks

 and his answer:

 Dear sir ,

 It is by air mail. Burson HDAM which is the most serious built HDAM and the number of FETs and transistors is more than the other HDAM.

 Thank you very much !

 Best regards,
 Lawrence


 Its not about Asian, European or American, its about truth and lie - I decided not to buy from him.._

 

Hello,
 This is the only Zero I have had. According to the thread, his HDAM is the "original" Earth, or the Burson if you will. It does not have the Cap mods like the new ones.


----------



## helicopter34234

Quote:


 A lot of people on here seemed to think that I was over-reacting, and that Lawrence would come good in the end. He never made contact again, and more and more people on here started to come forward with problems with their purchase - from incorrectly installed opamps, and standard opamps rather than the paid-for upgraded items, to units built with incorrectly-orientated capacitors, and failing to work at all. 
 

Yea, I too was chastised about my “jumping the gun” and not waiting for him to “make things right.” Well, I am still waiting. After having read the writing on the wall of how others had been treated by Lawrence I immediately knew what I was going to get, or more explicitly, where I was going to get it.

  Quote:


 Hi,
 Lawrence has had some issues. However, I just bought one from him. I ordered it on Saturday, and it was in my hands the following Thurs. One thing he has the others don't have on theirs is the Alps Volume pot. High quality and clean sounding. He also installs and sells the HDAM, that the others don't have, that you will want if you read the thread. I would definitely order it from him on Ebay, so you can bang him with some Bad feedback if anything goes wrong. I understand the concern here though. 
 

I am glad you had good luck with Lawrence, noone is saying that Lawrence can't ship a good product, the problem is that he sometimes doesn't. The even bigger problem is that when he does ship a bad problem, he makes you pay to make it right (ship it back at your own cost) before he sends you a new one. I don't know, maybe he would be better behaved if the purchase was through ebay and he feared his feedback rating decline. Yes, it is true that you can only get the volume pot through Lawrence, but I think the risks aren't worth it. At least wsz0304 will ship you a new unit free of charge if something goes wrong. Lawrence will not.

  Quote:


 Its not about Asian, European or American, its about truth and lie - I decided not to buy from him.. 
 

I also feel that he lied to me. He told me he burned in my Zero for an hour before shipping and verified that it was functioning. He claimed that my malfunction was due to shipping damage even though there was no indication of any external or internal physical damage. I don't believe that at all.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello,
 This is the only Zero I have had. According to the thread, his HDAM is the "original" Earth, or the Burson if you will. It does not have the Cap mods like the new ones._

 

Naa, its not the same, I think Burson HDAMs costs twice if not more than the Earth HDAM it uses, it might sound the same, but its not the same.. and then if you see the courteous mail I had written to him, I had asked him if it was Earth or Sun.. Anyway, I just found his reply not truthful and I pulled back from dealing with him..


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Naa, its not the same, I think Burson HDAMs costs twice if not more than the Earth HDAM it uses, it might sound the same, but its not the same.. and then if you see the courteous mail I had written to him, I had asked him if it was Earth or Sun.. Anyway, I just found his reply not truthful and I pulled back from dealing with him.._

 

You're right about the cost, but I think he's right about it being the Earth. The way I understand it is Audio-GD makes them, but didn't always sell them. They were sold by 3rd parties (like Burson). Then Audio-GD improved the HDAMs and started selling them directly - effectively cutting out the middleman and lowering the cost. It has been stated here several times that the Burson HDAM IS, in fact, the 1st-gen Earth module.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Naa, its not the same, I think Burson HDAMs costs twice if not more than the Earth HDAM it uses, it might sound the same, but its not the same.. and then if you see the courteous mail I had written to him, I had asked him if it was Earth or Sun.. Anyway, I just found his reply not truthful and I pulled back from dealing with him.._

 

Cost doesn't mean anything. You could take a lot of things out of China and depending on who you buy it from, the cost is radically different. I've seen the same Porsche headers with different names on them go from $1200 to $600 to $350 depending on who you buy them from. Same headers made in the same factory in China. If you have some proof he is not using Burson, please present it. The thread here from the guys who have handles a lot of these units suggest it is Burson, if that really makes a difference in the scheme of things. If the Audio-gd ones are about the same and cheaper, just seems like one Chinese company ripping off another one to me!! What goes around comes around!


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cost doesn't mean anything. You could take a lot of things out of China and depending on who you buy it from, the cost is radically different. I've seen the same Porsche headers with different names on them go from $1200 to $600 to $350 depending on who you buy them from. Same headers made in the same factory in China. If you have some proof he is not using Burson, please present it. The thread here from the guys who have handles a lot of these units suggest it is Burson, if that really makes a difference in the scheme of things. If the Audio-gd ones are about the same and cheaper, just seems like one Chinese company ripping off another one to me!! What goes around comes around!_

 

I agree everything what ScottieB has said, and since I havent brought from Lawrence, I cannot prove its specifically Burson HDAM or not, maybe you can do that, keeping in mind that Burson HDAM is registered product and it costs twice as much as AudioGD Earth HDAM.
 And in any case, I had very courteously asked him if it was Earth or Sun Module, he could have just said Earth, because No matter what anyone says, I do not think he uses Burson HDAM perse, it just would not make business sence..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree everything what ScottieB has said, and since I havent brought from Lawrence, I cannot prove its specifically Burson HDAM or not, maybe you can do that, keeping in mind that Burson HDAM is registered product and it costs twice as much as AudioGD Earth HDAM.
 And in any case, I had very courteously asked him if it was Earth or Sun Module, he could have just said Earth, because No matter what anyone says, I do not think he uses Burson HDAM perse, it just would not make business sence.._

 

This is a strange conversation, because you have NO idea what he pays for anything!


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree everything what ScottieB has said, and since I havent brought from Lawrence, I cannot prove its specifically Burson HDAM or not, maybe you can do that, keeping in mind that Burson HDAM is registered product and it costs twice as much as AudioGD Earth HDAM.
 And in any case, I had very courteously asked him if it was Earth or Sun Module, he could have just said Earth, because No matter what anyone says, I do not think he uses Burson HDAM perse, it just would not make business sence.._

 

Well maybe - my assumption (and it is just that) was that he could only GET the burson ones, since they are sold 3rd party? Perhaps Audio-GD know's he'd be a reseller and doesn't want to go that route anymore? Or maybe they know that he also sells to the Head-Fi crowd so they don't want the competition for this relatively niche market? Now that I type that it doesn't make much sense but that was my assumption. At any rate, the higher cost is likely due to the middleman (and now you could see Lawrence as another middle man). The Burson is probably just easier for him to acquire.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Naa, its not the same, I think Burson HDAMs costs twice if not more than the Earth HDAM it uses, it might sound the same, but its not the same.. and then if you see the courteous mail I had written to him, I had asked him if it was Earth or Sun.. Anyway, I just found his reply not truthful and I pulled back from dealing with him.._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You're right about the cost, but I think he's right about it being the Earth. The way I understand it is Audio-GD makes them, but didn't always sell them. They were sold by 3rd parties (like Burson). Then Audio-GD improved the HDAMs and started selling them directly - effectively cutting out the middleman and lowering the cost. It has been stated here several times that the Burson HDAM IS, in fact, the 1st-gen Earth module._

 

Hi Guys!

 Yes, it is true. The first model HDAM is the same HDAM audiogd was making for Burson. They also sold these to other audio shops and did indeed call it the "earth" HDAM. This is the model Lawrence has been using in his upgrades.

 When I got my first HDAM from Lawrence, and got my first "earth V1" directly from audiogd, I matured them for over 300 hours and did a comparison. This was with a stock Zero, with LT1364's in the headphone amp. I was unable to hear a difference between the two HDAMs. I haven't tried the "earth V2" yet, so maybe I'll get the chance to purchase one later on.

 I can tell you for sure, both the HDAM "earth" and the HDAM "earth V1" work extremely well in my Zero, AND my FrankenZero. I haven't had time to do a comparison of the two earths using my FrankenZero, but it is on my list of things to do. I have a feeling that the FrankenZero will be able to reveal the difference, if there is any. Time will tell. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 There is also the issue of doing the Burson HDAM cap mod. I have it done to the original HDAM "earth" with excellent results, but I haven't had time yet to do it to the "earth V1". This is on the top of my list, and then comes the long burn in due to the cap. Once that is done, I'll be able to give impressions and a comparison between the two HDAMs. If anyone else has done any of this, please chime in and let us know the results. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Due to ongoing medical issues, I've been seriously delayed in getting some of these things completed. I apologize if anyone was waiting for further word from me, on these comparisons or other reviews. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll do my best to catch up, as soon as I can.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is a strange conversation, because you have NO idea what he pays for anything!_

 

No maybe I dont, all I know and I have seen is quite a number of folks in the forum and in his Ebay feedback complaining about his service, and I wish he was as good to everyone as he was good to you..


----------



## ScottieB

Get better, Pench (assuming it is you you're talking about)! We'll help hold down the fort in the meantime..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Guys!

 Yes, it is true. The first model HDAM is the same HDAM audiogd was making for Burson. They also sold these to other audio shops and did indeed call it the "earth" HDAM. This is the model Lawrence has been using in his upgrades.

 When I got my first HDAM from Lawrence, and got my first "earth V1" directly from audiogd, I matured them for over 300 hours and did a comparison. This was with a stock Zero, with LT1364's in the headphone amp. I was unable to hear a difference between the two HDAMs. I haven't tried the "earth V2" yet, so maybe I'll get the chance to purchase one later on.
_

 

Hi,
 Thanx for the, Ahhh, clarification! Hope your issues get resolved to your satisfaction. Miss your input to this thread!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No maybe I dont, all I know and I have seen is quite a number of folks in the forum and in his Ebay feedback complaining about his service, and I wish he was as good to everyone as he was good to you.._

 

I don't know why he had or has the issues reported on. I will say this, I don't deal with Vendors I don't know off of Ebay. There is no leverage, especially in China. On FleaBay, you can leave FB and put someone out of business if he does it enough. A PayPal payment to Johnny_Come_lately@China.com means you are at their mercy. Other than a Forum, nobody knows about your issues.

 Additionally, I have Found that dealing with the East and Middle East means you need to respect their culture. Some of these people are very polite as they cut your head off. Playing a condescending Ugly American gets you TEN steps backward with them.

 Don't flame, I am talking perception here. There is a cultural difference between cultures that foster free speech and those that stifle it. What an American might think is reasonable questionsmay be a Beheading offense elsewhere. Americans are known for their Rude behavior the world over. So any forwardness in conversation will be viewed as rude because you are an American, the same question from an Armenian or a Georgian would not be perceived the same.

 Now look at Lawrence's Ebay FB, it's good. Everything is a matter of percentages. I must admit, I had already ordered mine when i saw those posts, and got REAL worried. But my experience could not have been better. I opend the box before firing it up, and looked everything over REAL well. It was perfect and delivered early. he communicated to me Saturday and Sunday. Every Email was answered. That was my experience.

 I WOULD NOR ORDER OUTSIDE OF EBAY. I am looking at a DV 337SE and the vendors want to sell off Ebay, Forget it, no way I am sending $1000 to someone in China I don't know with Zero recourse. FleaBay ain't perfect, but its all we have.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Get better, Pench (assuming it is you you're talking about)! We'll help hold down the fort in the meantime.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,
 Thanx for the, Ahhh, clarification! Hope your issues get resolved to your satisfaction. Miss your input to this thread!_

 

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the kind words!
 Yep, it's about me and my titanium caged lower back. I'm recovering slowly (I hate slow recoveries) from this latest episode, and will be getting things back to some kind of normal very soon (I hope).


----------



## athenaesword

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *seaice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is no USB input on the DAC. The DAC has only two digital inputs - optical and coaxial - so you need a soundcard with optical or coaxial digital output to feed the DAC._

 

here in singapore a couple of people who sell the dac throw in a usb--> spdif converter so i was asking on the premise that one such would be used.


----------



## les_garten

Hello,
 For those interested, LC's HDAM and someother shots like the Alps pot.










Index of /misc/zero


----------



## x_lk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *athenaesword* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_okay i'll take a look at that. btw could you comment on the 24bit/192khz from the USB? is the dac upsampling the 24bit/192khz from the 16bit out of the USB, or is the USB feeding 24bit out to the dac?_

 

athenaesword, Zero is not an upsampling DAC and some may claim feeding 44.1K pulls the best out of it, although the statement is arguable. Also, not all USB/SPDIF converter can do 24/192, as a matter of fact, most of them can't. I think most budget USB/Optical converters are either PCM270x or CM10x based, which can only do 16bit @ 44.1K and 48K. Both chips are cable of bit perfect though. Or you can buy more expensive gear, such as EMU 0404USB, which costs twice of a stock Zero.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't know why he had or has the issues reported on. I will say this, I don't deal with Vendors I don't know off of Ebay. There is no leverage, especially in China. On FleaBay, you can leave FB and put someone out of business if he does it enough. A PayPal payment to Johnny_Come_lately@China.com means you are at their mercy. Other than a Forum, nobody knows about your issues.

 Additionally, I have Found that dealing with the East and Middle East means you need to respect their culture. Some of these people are very polite as they cut your head off. Playing a condescending Ugly American gets you TEN steps backward with them.

 Don't flame, I am talking perception here. There is a cultural difference between cultures that foster free speech and those that stifle it. What an American might think is reasonable questionsmay be a Beheading offense elsewhere. Americans are known for their Rude behavior the world over. So any forwardness in conversation will be viewed as rude because you are an American, the same question from an Armenian or a Georgian would not be perceived the same.

 Now look at Lawrence's Ebay FB, it's good. Everything is a matter of percentages. I must admit, I had already ordered mine when i saw those posts, and got REAL worried. But my experience could not have been better. I opend the box before firing it up, and looked everything over REAL well. It was perfect and delivered early. he communicated to me Saturday and Sunday. Every Email was answered. That was my experience.

 I WOULD NOR ORDER OUTSIDE OF EBAY. I am looking at a DV 337SE and the vendors want to sell off Ebay, Forget it, no way I am sending $1000 to someone in China I don't know with Zero recourse. FleaBay ain't perfect, but its all we have._

 

I agree with you, but I also see it this way: 

 A guy orders a zero dac from Lawrence; let’s forget about the guys culture, his background, his hard earned money, his enthusiasm and his expectations. He gets the DAC, and when he hooks it up, his new headphones are fried, Man, he could have been electrocuted !!

 Forget about business, to me this is a bloody crime – do you really expect that guy to sit and think how he has to deal with this issue, I mean hasn’t he dealt with it enough? Isn’t it the time for the other guy to be dealt with, and in a manner he should be.

 I think it’s really about personalities and not culture, if something like this happened with me, I would never lick his butts just to secure my money, I would surely give him the words and treatment he deserves.

 And honestly, I don’t agree when you say, Americans are known for their rude behavior, it’s true that they are mostly straight talker, and I truly believe it helps more than just sweet talking, especially when it comes to business. I mean when someone orders a dac from Lawrence, it’s purely business and nothing do with cultural exchanges..

 I don’t know, I might be pulled up for this post, but to me I see how the person must have felt when got that DAC, to me, I would consider his feeling more than I would consider a billion people culture..


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_SNIP
 I don’t know, I might be pulled up for this post, but to me I see how the person must have felt when got that DAC, to me, I would consider his feeling more than I would consider a billion people culture.._

 


 I hear what you're saying, and in a way you're right, but the point is that it is a fact that we all have differing cultures, and these differences will influence how we interact - whether we make a conscious decision to or not. You have to be aware of it and realize how it may affect the transaction and interaction. Add to the cultural barrier a very significant language barrier (man I'm glad Lawrence knows some english - because we'd be lost if I had to learn Chinese!) and you can see how issues could pop up. Regardless of culture I'd say business is business and customer service is customer service, but people are people too and we need to be aware of differing cultures during our interpersonal interactions. That doesn't excuse the handful of times that Lawrence has seemingly ignored emails and problems, but it does provide a cautionary tale for anyone who runs in to problems -- be aware of the cultural barriers when you contact him, and remember that what may seem "normal" or expected to you may just rub him the wrong way.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hear what you're saying, and in a way you're right, but the point is that it is a fact that we all have differing cultures, and these differences will influence how we interact - whether we make a conscious decision to or not. You have to be aware of it and realize how it may affect the transaction and interaction. Add to the cultural barrier a very significant language barrier (man I'm glad Lawrence knows some english - because we'd be lost if I had to learn Chinese!) and you can see how issues could pop up. Regardless of culture I'd say business is business and customer service is customer service, but people are people too and we need to be aware of differing cultures during our interpersonal interactions. That doesn't excuse the handful of times that Lawrence has seemingly ignored emails and problems, but it does provide a cautionary tale for anyone who runs in to problems -- be aware of the cultural barriers when you contact him, and remember that what may seem "normal" or expected to you may just rub him the wrong way._

 

I again agree, but I feel it has to work both ways.
 After all everyone has a personality and a culture, its not just the Chinese or the Americans, you respect and you will be respected, you don't and I wouldn't care which way it rubs..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I again agree, but I feel it has to work both ways.
 After all everyone has a personality and a culture, its not just the Chinese or the Americans, you respect and you will be respected, you don't and I wouldn't care which way it rubs.._

 

Don't get me wrong, there's certainly some bad deals have happened here, and i agree about the customer service issue. Service is service. About "Frying Headphones", well there ain't no UL stamp on the back of this stuff, and there is no Consumer protection. Your house burns down because you are buying Chinese Electronics, you're kinda on your own there, unfortunately!

 My point is, that if you send some money to someone with ZERO leverage and you have a dispute, "Butter shouldn't melt in your mouth" if you know what I mean. It's just plain common sense. If that person is of a culture that highly values etiquette, and politeness, it makes no sense to be forward and aggressive. Languages other than English have formal and informal speech just for this reason. For instance, I speak German, if I used formal tone to my dog, it would offend everyone within earshot, as well as if I used informal tone to someone I had just met. he would be insulted because I used the same tone as I use for my dog. You will notice in all Chinese correspondence how polite they are. When you become aggressive to them, they WILL be insulted. In the old days,they used to carry swords to handle etiquette issues.

 Ohhh, and I'm an American and we are very Rude, condescending and arrogant. travel outside the US more.


----------



## ScottieB

Right - what I was saying was that if you want a certain result, you've got to "play the game" so to speak. For instance, I can't stand corporate america, the culture, the clothing, the politics - I HATE it. But I work for a fairly large corporation and as such, if I want to thrive, I need to play the game. I go home and tell my wife how stupid and phony it is, and at times it really messes with my integrity to be so fake and anti-everything I believe, but I gotta work, and I may as well be as successful as possible doing it (so I can pour more money into the Chinese electronics economy - ha!). 

 I think the point of all this from the beginning was to say just be aware, and use the knowledge you have to your advantage.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Right - what I was saying was that if you want a certain result, you've got to "play the game" so to speak. For instance, I can't stand corporate america, the culture, the clothing, the politics - I HATE it. But I work for a fairly large corporation and as such, if I want to thrive, I need to play the game. I go home and tell my wife how stupid and phony it is, and at times it really messes with my integrity to be so fake and anti-everything I believe, but I gotta work, and I may as well be as successful as possible doing it (so I can pour more money into the Chinese electronics economy - ha!). 

 I think the point of all this from the beginning was to say just be aware, and use the knowledge you have to your advantage._

 

Righto ! play the game - cheers scottie and Les !


----------



## solessthanthree

I feel bad for posting this in here, but I've spent the last two weeks reading three hundred of the pages in this thread as well as some others. From what I've read the Zero should be able to drive the 80ohm DT770s but I purchased the 250ohm 05 consumer edition and the bass is far weaker than I had imagined. Can anyone with experience with the 05 DT770s connected to the Zero without a dedicated amp comment on this? 

 I heard some people had good experiences with this setup but it's not happening for me. I've gotten the suggestion to pick up a dedicated amp but I'm skeptical at the moment but I'm willing to try it out. 

 I'm seriously considering selling these, but as my first real set of cans, I'd feel terrible for ending my hifi experience this early
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but I think I'd be happier finding something more fitting.

 Anyways, any suggestions or comments would be _very_ much appreciated. I'd really like to find that 'thundering' bass everyone's talking about


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *solessthanthree* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I feel bad for posting this in here, but I've spent the last two weeks reading three hundred of the pages in this thread as well as some others. From what I've read the Zero should be able to drive the 80ohm DT770s but I purchased the 250ohm 05 consumer edition and the bass is far weaker than I had imagined. Can anyone with experience with the 05 DT770s connected to the Zero without a dedicated amp comment on this? 

 I heard some people had good experiences with this setup but it's not happening for me. I've gotten the suggestion to pick up a dedicated amp but I'm skeptical at the moment but I'm willing to try it out. 

 I'm seriously considering selling these, but as my first real set of cans, I'd feel terrible for ending my hifi experience this early
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but I think I'd be happier finding something more fitting.

 Anyways, any suggestions or comments would be very much appreciated. I'd really like to find that 'thundering' bass everyone's talking about 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hello,
 I just sold a one week old set of those today. It is not the Zero's fault. Those phones are limited in the Base dept. Has nothing to do with the amp or dac. If you bought them in the amazon deal, you can get your money back easily. I sold mine for what I paid for them $114.


----------



## shampoosuicide

A few quick questions:

 Is this the earth leg of the RCA jack that I am supposed to solder the ground wire of the HDAM to?






 I have my HDAM positioned here. Is this a good spot? As you can see, I have a 200mm extension lead, so I can really move it around.


----------



## cuoreboy

my zero last stage of mod ....


----------



## Deftoned

Quote:


 Anyways, any suggestions or comments would be very much appreciated. I'd really like to find that 'thundering' bass everyone's talking about 
 

Hey solessthanthree! I do not really have any solid advise to give you, more than that if you're thinking of getting another set of cans with more bass, maybe you should check out Sony's new XB(eXtra Bass) headphones.



  Quote:


 my zero last stage of mod ....  
 

WOW, what is all that?


----------



## cuoreboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Deftoned* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey solessthanthree! I do not really have any solid advise to give you, more than that if you're thinking of getting another set of cans with more bass, maybe you should check out Sony's new XB(eXtra Bass) headphones.





 WOW, what is all that?_

 

tube output stage


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cuoreboy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_my zero last stage of mod .... 



_

 

This needs to be posted in the Zero Mod Thread rather than here. Congratulations though, it's completely crazy...great stuff!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cuoreboy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_my zero last stage of mod .... 







_

 


 Ahhhh, Dude, You're runnin' out of chassis there.

 SOMEBODY STOOOPPPP ME! STOPPP ME BEFORE I MOD AGAIN!!!


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If anyone's interested, I had another listen to the HDAMs after some burning in. The Moon I reckon is the one to go for, having the most soundstage of the three, the Sun being the most "in your face" and the Earth being in between._

 

Which HDAM unit should I go for to combo with the D2000? I want to make the D2000 sounds smoother especially in the treble and mids region. I reckon based on my findings in this thread the 'earth' would be the most suitable but I'm open to other suggestions.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *solessthanthree* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I feel bad for posting this in here, but I've spent the last two weeks reading three hundred of the pages in this thread as well as some others. From what I've read the Zero should be able to drive the 80ohm DT770s but I purchased the 250ohm 05 consumer edition and the bass is far weaker than I had imagined. Can anyone with experience with the 05 DT770s connected to the Zero without a dedicated amp comment on this? 

 I heard some people had good experiences with this setup but it's not happening for me. I've gotten the suggestion to pick up a dedicated amp but I'm skeptical at the moment but I'm willing to try it out. 

 I'm seriously considering selling these, but as my first real set of cans, I'd feel terrible for ending my hifi experience this early
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but I think I'd be happier finding something more fitting.

 Anyways, any suggestions or comments would be very much appreciated. I'd really like to find that 'thundering' bass everyone's talking about 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The Zero happily drives my 600ohm Senns. You may find that particular models of opamp give you a greater sense of bass depth, but I do suspect it would be trying to cure an inherent design characteristic of the cans themselves, rather than the DAC/amp itself.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## solessthanthree

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Zero happily drives my 600ohm Senns. You may find that particular models of opamp give you a greater sense of bass depth, but I do suspect it would be trying to cure an inherent design characteristic of the cans themselves, rather than the DAC/amp itself.

 ~Phewl._

 

Ahhh... I see. Thanks for all the great advice guys. Alas, I've got a lot to learn still and I think I just need to look around a bit more to get what I'm really after. I think I'll end up selling these anyways and pick up the 80ohm version once I get my post count up :] and then maybe pick up a dedicated amp. Thanks again everyone!

 And also, cuoreboy, that's a monstrosity 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 sure lives up to its name! Awesome job!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *solessthanthree* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ahhh... I see. Thanks for all the great advice guys. Alas, I've got a lot to learn still and I think I just need to look around a bit more to get what I'm really after. I think I'll end up selling these anyways and pick up the 80ohm version once I get my post count up :] and then maybe pick up a dedicated amp. Thanks again everyone!

 And also, cuoreboy, that's a monstrosity 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 sure lives up to its name! Awesome job!_

 

You will most likely like the 80 ohm pro's better. Also, the Head amp in the Zero is pretty good, don't sell it short!


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which HDAM unit should I go for to combo with the D2000? I want to make the D2000 sounds smoother especially in the treble and mids region. I reckon based on my findings in this thread the 'earth' would be the most suitable but I'm open to other suggestions._

 

I'm personally recommending the Moon, because of the greater soundstage. That being said, "soundstage" in headphones is an illusion of slight differences in EQ. 

 With the D2000s though, how long have you had them? They tend to be a bit harsh in the treble initially, which goes away with some hours of use.


----------



## syg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You will most likely like the 80 ohm pro's better. Also, the Head amp in the Zero is pretty good, don't sell it short!_

 

The Zero in itself is a great unit for the price, but I'm of the persuasion that its builtin headphone amp section just doesn't compare to a real, separate amp. I recently purchased a Heed CanAmp to pair with my K701, but even with my '05 DT770 the improvement is phenomenal. That said, I'm extremely happy with the Zero as a source.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm personally recommending the Moon, because of the greater soundstage. That being said, "soundstage" in headphones is an illusion of slight differences in EQ. 

 With the D2000s though, how long have you had them? They tend to be a bit harsh in the treble initially, which goes away with some hours of use._

 

Well I don't have Denons, but with my closed phones (the Beyer DT-250 80ohm version) I really liked what the Moon did for them. Opened up soundstage a lot and seemed to give more bass punch than the Earth. But honestly you can't really go wrong with any of the HDAMs (including the Sun, IMO).


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *syg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Zero in itself is a great unit for the price, but I'm of the persuasion that its builtin headphone amp section just doesn't compare to a real, separate amp. I recently purchased a Heed CanAmp to pair with my K701, but even with my '05 DT770 the improvement is phenomenal. That said, I'm extremely happy with the Zero as a source._

 

Here's what I'm listening to presently.

 Vista 64 >> HT Omega Stryker 7.1 SC SPDIF >> Zero DAC >> LD MK V >> Senn HD650

 I'm burning in everything at present at various stages of maturity, all new though.

 Zero Has HDAM and LT1364. It is very easy to move the Senns from the LD MKV to the Zero. The Zero ain't Bad! Going to add a DV 337SE to the mix in the Next month with a separate Identical Zero. If you are looking for a DAC and a Head amp that's Pretty good and don't want to hobby it up, you can stop at the Zero. But that ain't what this forum is about is it??


----------



## kiljim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *solessthanthree* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I feel bad for posting this in here, but I've spent the last two weeks reading three hundred of the pages in this thread as well as some others. From what I've read the Zero should be able to drive the 80ohm DT770s but I purchased the 250ohm 05 consumer edition and the bass is far weaker than I had imagined. Can anyone with experience with the 05 DT770s connected to the Zero without a dedicated amp comment on this? 

 I heard some people had good experiences with this setup but it's not happening for me. I've gotten the suggestion to pick up a dedicated amp but I'm skeptical at the moment but I'm willing to try it out. 

 I'm seriously considering selling these, but as my first real set of cans, I'd feel terrible for ending my hifi experience this early
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 but I think I'd be happier finding something more fitting.

 Anyways, any suggestions or comments would be very much appreciated. I'd really like to find that 'thundering' bass everyone's talking about 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

If the 770's are new, you might wanna try burning them in for a few days before deciding on the bass
 I felt the same way as you did when i got mine, but after 3 days of burning in the bass was a lot stronger and had more impact


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kiljim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If the 770's are new, you might wanna try burning them in for a few days before deciding on the bass
 I felt the same way as you did when i got mine, but after 3 days of burning in the bass was a lot stronger and had more impact_

 


 I had the same phones, you are right, it gets better, but not better enough.


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm personally recommending the Moon, because of the greater soundstage. That being said, "soundstage" in headphones is an illusion of slight differences in EQ. 

 With the D2000s though, how long have you had them? They tend to be a bit harsh in the treble initially, which goes away with some hours of use._

 

I got it used (about 4 months old) and it was recabled with the D5000 cables. How would the earth compare to moon?


----------



## ciphercomplete

Whats the best volume knob mod? I am quite sick of the cheapo stock knob.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Whats the best volume knob mod? I am quite sick of the cheapo stock knob._

 

have a look at this :

http://www.partsconnexion.com/catalo...sandknobs.html

 KNOBS-64392Solid Brass - matte silver, 6mm - shaft diameter with Allen/socket screw mount26$22.95

 It may not be the cheapest option, but I know some folks in the forum using these for their Zero and they are very happy..


----------



## athenaesword

do you guys mainly use the spdif to the zero or use a usb -> spdif converter? which one would entail better results?


----------



## AudioPhewl

Which one would entail better results?

 Out of the choices presented - SPDIF and SPDIF - I'm going to take a stab in the dark that SPDIF will win hands-down...


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *athenaesword* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_do you guys mainly use the spdif to the zero or use a usb -> spdif converter? which one would entail better results?_

 

It only matters if you are going to do something like kernel streaming or ASIO. USB might not have enough bandwidth for ASIO so if you are going to go that route you should go with spdif without the usb conversion.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Whats the best volume knob mod? I am quite sick of the cheapo stock knob._

 

 I just bought this one. It may be too large when I get it though.

36x27mm Aluminum Knob with Sand Blasted for Alps Volume - eBay (item 360092018398 end time Nov-23-08 09:26:21 PST)


----------



## Baltozar

Hello all!

 Some weeks passed after receiving Zero, but it is still some bad things with it.
 First of all I resoldered Elna cap in the right position. Then downloaded RMAA and did some tests. My setup was AC'97 optical out connected to Zero, HDAM in the DAC and 2*NE5532(because one of the LT1364 is dead) in the HeadAmp.
*THD+noise:*



*Intermodulation distortion:*



 As you can see results are very bad.
 After that I inserted LT1364 in the DAC position instead of HDAM.
*THD+noise:*



*Intermodulation distortion:*



 This is much better.
 After more tests I understood that problem is HDAM. Then I inspected it with multimeter and I have a feeling that some transistors are inverted:



 And maybe one of these (I'm not sure):



 Please, someone, help me understand what's wrong with my HDAM. I think I'd beter fix it myself than ship it to Lawrence.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

My first gen HDAM has copper shielding covers on it so I can't confirm or deny the orientation of the transistors you have pointed out Baltozar.

 Send these pics with your questions to Kingwa at audio-gd. It's likely he'll be the one person that could answer your inquiries (most likely his schematic these were assembled with ).

 I don't see a ground wire on your module ...where is it ? DaMnEd found the module measured rather badly with the ground wire unconnected and cleared up considerably with it grounded. The odd thing though is the differences between grounded and ungrounded is inaudible in listening tests. I leave mine alone and have at times had them grounded and ungrounded...haven't really heard a difference.

 IMHO at least. Since I swap modules on a regular basis it's easier for me to leave these wires loose for convenience sake. Once I settle on a permanent installation I will solder in the ground wires for good because it looks better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just bought this one. It may be too large when I get it though.

36x27mm Aluminum Knob with Sand Blasted for Alps Volume - eBay (item 360092018398 end time Nov-23-08 09:26:21 PST)_

 

Far be it for me to comment on another man's knob (
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) but that is one sweet piece of aluminum Les !!!

 Post a pic or two when you have it installed....I'm curious to see if this style works with the Zero....I bet it will look really cool.

 Peete.


----------



## vitosu

Just got the Zero, and I'm finally looking at HDAMs now. 

 Does anyone use HDAMs in the Zero HeadAmp? Does it make any difference over LT1364s? 

 I've read a few difference forums/websites, and some people suggest going with HDAMs in the HeadAmp, while others say that's a bad idea. Could someone shed some more light on this, please? DaMnEd in the Zero Mod thread said it was a gamble going with 3x HDAMs in the Zero, and I was looking for more opinions on this.


----------



## punk_guy182

I'm sorry to step in and change the subject guys but I have a problem that I need you to help me solve it.

 I have a sound imbalance and I was wondering if the DAC portion of the ZERO could be responsible. If so, I would have to purchase another DAC?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Far be it for me to comment on another man's knob (
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) but that is one sweet piece of aluminum Les !!!

 Post a pic or two when you have it installed....I'm curious to see if this style works with the Zero....I bet it will look really cool.

 Peete._

 

My Knob says thanx for noticing!


----------



## Kurotetsu

Zero arrived today (it shipped Tuesday and got here this afternoon, very impressed). My first visual impression was that this thing is MUCH larger than I anticipated. For whatever reason I got the idea that this thing wasn't too much bigger than a Sonic Impact T-Amp Gen2, boy was I wrong. Before hooking anything up I cracked it open to confirm the presence of the OPA627, which it did have, and that's where I ran into the first, and currently only, QC issue. The screwhole on the lower left hand corner (looking at the Zero from the front) was stripped. I had to guide the screw out with a flat head screwdriver.

 As far as sound quality goes, compared to coming straight from the X-Fi, the Zero sounds just a tad bit sharper and more detailed but feels weaker (its doesn't seem as loud at a corresponding volume setting compared to the X-Fi). In short, it sounds great to me. I've only tried the headphone port once so far, and I got the impression that it didn't sound as good compared to plugging straight into the X-Fi, but then I probably need to give it some serious play time so it can settle in.

 Just for the benefit of not having to sniff around the back of my computer anymore makes this an excellent buy for me. The sound quality is just a very pleasant bonus!


----------



## arfett

This is the RCA ground wire, correct?


----------



## ccschua

ah ha. I can see the silver cable. the arrow u pointed is correct. there are 3 pins on the pcb, the mid one is ground and it is a better choice.


----------



## nauxolo

So I bought a fiber optic cable to connect my playstation, but it does not fit my zero. Do I need a mini-toslink adapter. One of those 3.5mm things?


----------



## Syu

Does anyone know where ZERO's I/V converter circuit is?


----------



## x_lk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ciphercomplete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It only matters if you are going to do something like kernel streaming or ASIO. USB might not have enough bandwidth for ASIO so if you are going to go that route you should go with spdif without the usb conversion._

 

I don't think kernel streaming or ASIO will affect the output bandwidth. They are just ways to bypass the Windows KMixer, which contributes about 30ms latency into your output path, and it's not reducible. The bandwidth requirement for CD audio is 44.1K x 16 x 2, which is around 1.4Mbps, far from exceeding the limit of full speed USB 1.1 (12Mbps). So bandwidth should not become your major concern here. Budget USB/SPDIF converters tend to output mediocre SPDIF signal, mainly because of their cheap design and implementation. USB/optical devices also add another layer of AD/DA into conversion process, thus increase jitter. USB/coaxial converters are born better, IMO.


----------



## x_lk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I bought a fiber optic cable to connect my playstation, but it does not fit my zero. Do I need a mini-toslink adapter. One of those 3.5mm things?_

 

I'm surprised that your Zero did not come with a optical cable. Zero accepts ordinary toslink, not the mini-type. So you don't need the adapter. Try turn the plug until it fits ...


----------



## athenaesword

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *x_lk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't think kernel streaming or ASIO will affect the output bandwidth. They are just ways to bypass the Windows KMixer, which contributes about 30ms latency into your output path, and it's not reducible. The bandwidth requirement for CD audio is 44.1K x 16 x 2, which is around 1.4Mbps, far from exceeding the limit of full speed USB 1.1 (12Mbps). So bandwidth should not become your major concern here. Budget USB/SPDIF converters tend to output mediocre SPDIF signal, mainly because of their cheap design and implementation. USB/optical devices also add another layer of AD/DA into conversion process, thus increase jitter. USB/coaxial converters are born better, IMO._

 

thanks for the clarification. so assuming i wish to use the zero with a laptop without spdif out, the best option would be to get a usb/coax converter? how much would a really good one cost?


----------



## les_garten

Hello,
 Do you guys know what the Volume control Pot's specs are. 50 or 100 KOhms?


----------



## x_lk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *athenaesword* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thanks for the clarification. so assuming i wish to use the zero with a laptop without spdif out, the best option would be to get a usb/coax converter? how much would a really good one cost?_

 

USB Off-Ramp Turbo-2 ~$1000 ... I guess you don't want to spend 10x Zero price on a converter 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Unfortunately, all USB sound cards I know with a coaxial output cost $200+. If you don't mind their high price tag, either M-Audio or EMU will serve the purpose very well, IMO. Personally, I use a modified SIIG USB SoundWave 7.1. I opened its shell and added a male RCA plug to directly couple CM102's SPDIF output to Zero's SPDIF input - no SPDIF cable required, yeah! It costs me less than $20 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I know it's a rather crappy sound card, but to my ears, CM102's digital output sounds exactly the same comparing to the SPDIF from my M-Audio AP192 (~$150).


----------



## athenaesword

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *x_lk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_USB Off-Ramp Turbo-2 ~$1000 ... I guess you don't want to spend 10x Zero price on a converter 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Unfortunately, all USB sound cards with coaxial output I know cost $200+. If you don't mind their high price tag, either M-Audio or EMU will serve the purpose very well, IMO. Personally, I use a modified USB SoundWave 7.1. I opened its shell and added a male RCA plug to directly couple CM102's SPDIF output to Zero's SPDIF input - no SPDIF cable required, yeah! It costs me less than $20 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I know it's a rather crappy sound card, but to my ears, CM102's digital output sounds exactly the same comparing to the SPDIF from my M-Audio AP192 (~$150)._

 

lol issit possible to mod the zero with a usb then hahah


----------



## DaMnEd

HA USB TO SPDIF (coax) 2902 

 Cheap and does what is required.


----------



## x_lk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *athenaesword* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_lol issit possible to mod the zero with a usb then hahah_

 

I was thinking of putting the USB sound card inside Zero - it's tiny and bus powered, so should be very doable. But I didn't bother drilling the back of Zero, leaving it outside for now ...


----------



## athenaesword

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *x_lk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was thinking of putting the USB sound card inside Zero - it's tiny and bus powered, so should be very doable. But I didn't bother drilling the back of Zero, leaving it outside for now ..._

 

putting the soundcard inside the zero!? how would the soundcard be connected to the zero then?wouldn't there still be an spdif connection?


----------



## x_lk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *athenaesword* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_putting the soundcard inside the zero!? how would the soundcard be connected to the zero then?wouldn't there still be an spdif connection?_

 

The connection is still through SPDIF. I guess a better way would be using a USB receiver chip capable of output I2S, then route I2S directly to AD1852 - bypassing CS8416 altogether, it'll be a huge and risky mod though ...


----------



## nauxolo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *x_lk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm surprised that your Zero did not come with a optical cable. Zero accepts ordinary toslink, not the mini-type. So you don't need the adapter. Try turn the plug until it fits ..._

 

haha im dumb
 i didn't know the thing was a cover... i had to pull it out. oops


----------



## athenaesword

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *x_lk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The connection is still through SPDIF. I guess a better way would be using a USB receiver chip capable of output I2S, then route I2S directly to AD1852 - bypassing CS8416 altogether, it'll be a huge and risky mod though ..._

 

oh... there goes my hopes of having a USB zero.


----------



## Zadok

It seems to me that this Zero DAC is in the same relative pricerange as an LD Mk2....If I am using my Hd580's, would it be more beneficial to purchase this Zero and use it as both a DAC and an amp? Or would the LD MK2's superiority as an amp surpass that utility?

 I might end up buying both of them and using Zero as the source.

 Just some opinions please.


----------



## MadMan007

Ok, here's the follow up regarding my problem I've been meaning to post but I've been busy, I bought multiple units with the intent of reselling. Two of them were fine, to recap the problem with the other two, after playing for a few minutes one channel started to degrade quickly and became distorted then would only play at a much lower volume as well. This was through the preamp as well as the HA so the problem seemed to be in the DAC section. wsz (the seller) suggested I try swapping the OPA627 from the good units in to the bad ones and they worked fine, I test ran them for over 12 hours trying all inputs and outputs and had no further problem. So it turns out I had bad OPA627 Opamp modules 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 not really sure how that happens but whatever. Anyway I was sent replacements and all is good now.

 So, if you've got a problem with one channel in particular being distorted or playing really quietly through both the pre- outs and the HA it's likely the DAC opamps are bad.

 wsz on eBay has awesome communication and great customer service. He was prompt and as helpful as he could be in troubleshooting and solving the problem. He took care of the problem with no question as well, I would highly recommend him to anyone who has concerns about not getting a perfect unit.

 LT1364 - I ordered samples from Linear Tech and popped them in. I'd listened to the stock HA section and it was Ok, with the LT1364s it got..different, in a better way I suppose. I didn't do any back and forth A/B but my first impression was that it opens up the sound as if you're in a bigger environment, if I didn't know better I'd say it was like a subtle Dolby effect or an EAX effect in games. It's not something I'd been used to in headphones so it sounded odd at first but I've gotten used to it and it's pretty nice. It doesn't actually change the source material, tightly mic'd or 'closed' recordings or don't have added reverb or anything like that but ones that are meant to have an open sound expand beyond what one would expect from headphones.

 I also did the cap-cutting mod on the one I'm keeping, actually I unsoldered them because leaving leads sticking out of the board doesn't suit my anal-retentive style 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I sort of did it before listening much 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but the thought of filtering anything right at the output stage didn't sit well with me. Both my speaker system and headphones are sort of bright, or rather non-bass enhanced - NS-1000M speakers and Grados SR-80s. I can see how people with those phones might not like the mod but if so they might be better off with other phones instead. The LT1364s may help in smoothing things out a touch too but it's hard to tell. The next mod will be a better volume pot for sure, the stock one works OK but with low impedance phones like the Grados the volume difference between channels at very low levels is apparent. I'd actually like to try adding an impedance switch across the headphone out but that's for the mod thread.

 Lengthy post, just figured I'd share in case anyone else is having a similar issue.


----------



## athenaesword

oops nvm


----------



## Garret Jax

FOR PC USERS

 I currently run my PC's optical output to a Zero DAC/AMP to Sennheiser HD-650 cans. The setup sounds pretty darn good. However, I may help a friend out by giving him the Zero and purchasing a new sound card - the HT Omega Claro Halo. The Halo has a built-in headphone amplifier and is supposed to be top-notch, but I wonder if it would sound better or worse than the Zero DAC/AMP I am using now.

Here's some Head-Fi discussion on the Halo.


Here's the product's homepage (lots of specs).

 What do you think? The Zero cost a little under $200, the Halo costs a little over $200, and I would be helping out a friend if I do this. However, I do not want to replace the Zero with the Halo if the sound quality will suffer. I need some advice.

 Thanks Head-Fi!
 -Garret


----------



## jsplice

I'd be cautious of replacing your Zero with an internal sound card unless you've heard it first. This card doesn't even look like it's shielded, meaning it will be susceptible to a lot of interference going on inside of the computer case.

 I certainly wouldn't replace such an acclaimed unit as the Zero with an internal soundcard with no shielding that you haven't heard. Just my opinion though.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Garret Jax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_FOR PC USERS

 I currently run my PC's optical output to a Zero DAC/AMP to Sennheiser HD-650 cans. The setup sounds pretty darn good. However, I may help a friend out by giving him the Zero and purchasing a new sound card - the HT Omega Claro Halo. The Halo has a built-in headphone amplifier and is supposed to be top-notch, but I wonder if it would sound better or worse than the Zero DAC/AMP I am using now.

Here's some Head-Fi discussion on the Halo.


Here's the product's homepage (lots of specs).

 What do you think? The Zero cost a little under $200, the Halo costs a little over $200, and I would be helping out a friend if I do this. However, I do not want to replace the Zero with the Halo if the sound quality will suffer. I need some advice.

 Thanks Head-Fi!
 -Garret_

 

Hi,
 I have an HT Omega Stryker. They make great SC's and their support is unsurpassed. I am a contributor to that thread also. I had the same questions. I went with the Zero and feel it was the very smart move now. There is a ton more flexibility to the Digital out of the soundcard to the zero setup. I also don't have to climb behind the computer to futz with my headphone cable.

 With the zero, you have a great customizable DAC, a Good customizable Head amp. You can change opamps, you can go out the Preamp of the dac to an external Headamp. Looking at all the sound card has to do, how can that little board compare to an external dac and headamp?

 I will say that a Claro SC to the zero is a great combo and probably where I will eventually go, although I probably won't see/hear any difference between it and the Stryker I have now.

 The biggest deal is that with the Claro, you are done and locked in. I also think that the Headphones, like Sennheisers and others will never be driven properly from the Claro, so you will be limited with how "Well", you can drive Headphones. I have HD650's and the more I throw at them, the better they sound. 

 The good side of the Claro.... Your spending days are over!


----------



## sandchak

[QUOTE
 What do you think? The Zero cost a little under $200, the Halo costs a little over $200, and I would be helping out a friend if I do this. However, I do not want to replace the Zero with the Halo if the sound quality will suffer. I need some advice.

 Thanks Head-Fi!
 -Garret[/QUOTE]

 Incidentally I had a chance to listen to both through Zero (un-moded) and Auzentech Meridian Sound card, at a friend's place (which I believe is one of the best med level sound card and had that some time back)

 I dont have much idea about HT Omega Halo, but in compared to Claro, Meridian is far superior as it even allows opamp swap at both stages and just not the output stage.

 I found the sound coming out of Meridian, close if not better than the unmoded Zero, in terms of seperation and dynamics, through his HD600, mind you, he has no graphic card (only onboard) and his hard disc is shieded in a seperate enclosure (two of the many factors that cause distortions in a PC).

 All said and done, the Zero we know can be moded to ones taste and to a great level. which will easily surpass many soundcards including the Meridians.

 It really depends how far one wants to go with the Zero mods. To me, standard Zero against Meridian, I found the latter tad better, but then I know the zero can easily surpass that with a few additions..

 In any case, you have to listen and compare to make that choice..

 I realize, this does not help as far as your question goes, but then you might look into the Meridians too, to my mind it is going to be tough for Halo to beat it..


----------



## les_garten

[QUOTE
 What do you think? The Zero cost a little under $200, the Halo costs a little over $200, and I would be helping out a friend if I do this. However, I do not want to replace the Zero with the Halo if the sound quality will suffer. I need some advice.

 Thanks Head-Fi!
 -Garret[/quote]

 One more consideration, the Zero setup can be moved around to other sources. The SC is the SC, soup to nutz.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Garret Jax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_FOR PC USERS

 I currently run my PC's optical output to a Zero DAC/AMP to Sennheiser HD-650 cans. The setup sounds pretty darn good. However, I may help a friend out by giving him the Zero and purchasing a new sound card - the HT Omega Claro Halo. The Halo has a built-in headphone amplifier and is supposed to be top-notch, but I wonder if it would sound better or worse than the Zero DAC/AMP I am using now.

Here's some Head-Fi discussion on the Halo.


Here's the product's homepage (lots of specs).

 What do you think? The Zero cost a little under $200, the Halo costs a little over $200, and I would be helping out a friend if I do this. However, I do not want to replace the Zero with the Halo if the sound quality will suffer. I need some advice.

 Thanks Head-Fi!
 -Garret_

 

The card would be - IMO - broadly comparable to the stock Zero. Possibly slightly better, possibly slightly worse.

 The real benefit of owning a Zero is how good it sounds with a little time and a few mods. I've got a modded Zero, and it would need to be a product of noticeably better sound quality for me to consider changing. Unfortunately, it would take much more money to have an appreciable increase in quality...

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Garret Jax

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The card would be - IMO - broadly comparable to the stock Zero. Possibly slightly better, possibly slightly worse.

 The real benefit of owning a Zero is how good it sounds with a little time and a few mods. I've got a modded Zero, and it would need to be a product of noticeably better sound quality for me to consider changing. Unfortunately, it would take much more money to have an appreciable increase in quality...

 ~Phewl._

 

Thanks Phewl. What mods would you say are the best bang-for-your-buck? I have the OPA627AU and LT1364 in the headphone amp, but where should I go from here?


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Garret Jax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Phewl. What mods would you say are the best bang-for-your-buck? I have the OPA627AU and LT1364 in the headphone amp, but where should I go from here?_

 

A Moon HDAM for the DAC section. Make sure you ask for one with the extension leads.


----------



## Ben Diss

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HA USB TO SPDIF (coax) 2902 

 Cheap and does what is required. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

The idea of converting a PCM stream in USB to a SPDIF signal has always seemed to me to be a good way to degrade the signal. I'm listening to my Zero through a Xitel MD-Port DG2 (USB->optical SPDIF converter). After reading these last few posts I thought I'd see if I could find a way to give the Zero PCM data straight from my PC. I figured out how to take the digital out from my X-Fi card and feed it to the Zero and...

 Wow.

 Did I mention ... WOW!

 If there high freq harshness was a 8 on a 10 scale, now it's 2. Dramatic reduction.

 I'm either going to buy a second sound card and dedicate it to feeding the Zero or look for alternative USB converters. Having said all that, are there any thoughts on the HD 2902 as compared to the Xitel? Maybe it's Coax vs. Optical? Maybe it's just removing the USB conversion step or maybe the Xitel just sucks?

 Thoughts?


----------



## x_lk

Xitel DG2 has serious jitter problem, see here. PCM2902 is way better.


----------



## helicopter34234

Quote:


 The ZERO will make do if you have good headphones and haven't yet heard better, but wont in any way compare to adding a good few hundred dollars worth of amp will. 
 

Taken from Currawong's "Introduction to the Zero DAC and Headphone amplifier." Can anyone else comment on this? How much better will my setup sound with a dedicated amp? I already have the Burr Brown OPA627s the two LT1364's. I am powering Beter DT770's (the 250 consumer version). Also, how much better would an HDAM sound than the OPAMP? I am getting the impression that I am not that sensative to slight differences in SQ, therefore I don't know if it would be worth it to buy any more upgrades.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *helicopter34234* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Taken from Currawong's "Introduction to the Zero DAC and Headphone amplifier." Can anyone else comment on this? How much better will my setup sound with a dedicated amp? I already have the Burr Brown OPA627s the two LT1364's. I am powering Beter DT770's (the 250 consumer version). Also, how much better would an HDAM sound than the OPAMP? I am getting the impression that I am not that sensative to slight differences in SQ, therefore I don't know if it would be worth it to buy any more upgrades._

 

Perfect timing for me to answer your question. I have HDAM and LT1364's talking to Senn HD650's. The Zero Dac/Headamp was a VAST improvement over the line out of my Pretty Good SC. Then I bought a Little DOT MKV, and it is a Vast improvement over the Zero head amp. More presence, more 3 dimensional, base tighter and more prominent, voice is so much smoother and 3-D like. At least that is how I am hearing it with HD650's. A less demanding HP may be different, but I don't think so. I was very happy with the Zero. I've been burning in the LD for a week or so, and listening off and on. Tonight, I went back and forth a few times on the opening minutes of Godsmack's Voodoo, and the difference was staggering. It always is bigger to drop down than to go up in performance. You always notice the decrease right away, the increase in performance can sometimes take a while to fully realize. 

 Admittedly, the 650's are notorious for lapping up performance from ever increasing quality of amplification. I'll have some Denon D5000's tomorrow, and some Beyer DT770-80's this week to go over also.

 So, if I had never heard the LD MKV I would have been happy as a Clam. I'm getting ready to do the DV 337SE, which will be interesting also.


----------



## helicopter34234

For what it is worth, in relation to the discussion of the different methods of getting a digital signal into your Zero, I just tested the difference between the digital output of my crappy onboard sound card (Gigabyte motherboard) and the crappy usb optical output module that came with my Zero. On both the SPDIF and the optical signal from my onboard soundcard, I noticed popping and almost a background of static (faint but definitely noticeable) build up. Definitely noticeable distortion that even my ears could hear. With the usb to optical module I did not hear any distortion, popping, or static. I will let the other guys explain why this is so.

 Why does everyone use the usb SPDIF versus a usb to optical module? Is the SPDIF better in some way?

 This is along the same lines as the question previously being discussed, but wouldn't any distortion or degradation in the digital signal (between different methods of sending and quality of devices used for the conversion from PCM to the digital signal that the zero reads) be readily identifiable as it would manifest itself as pops, hisses, or static? This is opposed to the slippery nature of analog distortions where differences in quality are much harder to identify without ABX type testing. Am I correct with this?


----------



## athenaesword

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The card would be - IMO - broadly comparable to the stock Zero. Possibly slightly better, possibly slightly worse.

 The real benefit of owning a Zero is how good it sounds with a little time and a few mods. I've got a modded Zero, and it would need to be a product of noticeably better sound quality for me to consider changing. Unfortunately, it would take much more money to have an appreciable increase in quality...

 ~Phewl._

 

hey phewl did you change the volume knob on the zero? how's the stock knob?


----------



## athenaesword

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *helicopter34234* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For what it is worth, in relation to the discussion of the different methods of getting a digital signal into your Zero, I just tested the difference between the digital output of my crappy onboard sound card (Gigabyte motherboard) and the crappy usb optical output module that came with my Zero. On both the SPDIF and the optical signal from my onboard soundcard, I noticed popping and almost a background of static (faint but definitely noticeable) build up. Definitely noticeable distortion that even my ears could hear. With the usb to optical module I did not hear any distortion, popping, or static. I will let the other guys explain why this is so.

 Why does everyone use the usb SPDIF versus a usb to optical module? Is the SPDIF better in some way?

 This is along the same lines as the question previously being discussed, but wouldn't any distortion or degradation in the digital signal (between different methods of sending and quality of devices used for the conversion from PCM to the digital signal that the zero reads) be readily identifiable as it would manifest itself as pops, hisses, or static? This is opposed to the slippery nature of analog distortions where differences in quality are much harder to identify without ABX type testing. Am I correct with this?_

 

isn't optical spdif as well? i thought coax and optical were both spdif.


----------



## athenaesword

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ben Diss* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The idea of converting a PCM stream in USB to a SPDIF signal has always seemed to me to be a good way to degrade the signal. I'm listening to my Zero through a Xitel MD-Port DG2 (USB->optical SPDIF converter). After reading these last few posts I thought I'd see if I could find a way to give the Zero PCM data straight from my PC. I figured out how to take the digital out from my X-Fi card and feed it to the Zero and...

 Wow.

 Did I mention ... WOW!

 If there high freq harshness was a 8 on a 10 scale, now it's 2. Dramatic reduction.

 I'm either going to buy a second sound card and dedicate it to feeding the Zero or look for alternative USB converters. Having said all that, are there any thoughts on the HD 2902 as compared to the Xitel? Maybe it's Coax vs. Optical? Maybe it's just removing the USB conversion step or maybe the Xitel just sucks?

 Thoughts?_

 

how did you manage to get usb feeding PCM data straight to your zero bypassing the spdif??


----------



## Ben Diss

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *athenaesword* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_how did you manage to get usb feeding PCM data straight to your zero bypassing the spdif??_

 

Hmm... I probably didn't say that right. I connected the digital out on my sound card to the coax jack on the Zero.


----------



## sandchak

Nice Pictures, Mr. Wong.


----------



## helicopter34234

Quote:


 isn't optical spdif as well? i thought coax and optical were both spdif. 
 

Sorry, I meant both coax and optical. You are right, SPDIF includes both.


----------



## arfett

I just got my Zero and my Xbox 360's optical out to it works just fine, but I'm not getting any audio using coax from my X-FI Xtreme Music. Do I HAVE to have that stupid digital I/O port they sell or can't I just run a 3.5mm to RCA SPDIF cord to my zero?


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Garret Jax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Phewl. What mods would you say are the best bang-for-your-buck? I have the OPA627AU and LT1364 in the headphone amp, but where should I go from here?_

 

IMO, the audio-gd HDAM module is the single upgrade needed for the Zero to sound in the next league up. Other mods are worthwhile, and have been discussed in-depth on this site, but the HDAM is a superb starting point for any upgrades.

 The different flavours offer different sound characteristics. I've used the Earth and Sun modules - Earth is very neutral, Sun is more punchy and dynamic but more fatiguing for long-term use. No experience of the Moon, so I couldn't comment on that at all.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *athenaesword* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey phewl did you change the volume knob on the zero? how's the stock knob?_

 

Standard knob. It serves its purpose adequately. There are better knobs out there, but I only want to part with cash for better sound.

 Besides, I rarely use the headphone amp these days. My Stax cans came with their own dedicated amplifier.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## electropop

Sorry to disturb your op-swapping 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Brief question (Long thread is long):
 Does the volume control apply to the line-out stage, meaning it would work as a preamp? I have a set of Adam A5 activespeakers, and would love to know if this amp is up for the job of functioning as an adequate headphone amp as well as setting the volume for my speakers..

 Thanks in advance!

 -K


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *electropop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry to disturb your op-swapping 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Brief question (Long thread is long):
 Does the volume control apply to the line-out stage, meaning it would work as a preamp? I have a set of Adam A5 activespeakers, and would love to know if this amp is up for the job of functioning as an adequate headphone amp as well as setting the volume for my speakers..

 Thanks in advance!

 -K_

 

No problem there, mentioned on Page 1


----------



## electropop

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No problem there, mentioned on Page 1_

 

Hehe.. right.. I'm embarrassed over the fact that i actually skipped through the initial review! Shame on me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 "*NOTE* I have an update for all Zero users. Thanks to other Zero users, the true "pre-amp" function (a volume controlled output feature) has been found.
 If you press the button for Phones and the green light comes on, this means that "IF" a headphone is plugged in, the volume knob works for the headphone amp. If you don't plug in a headphone and the green light is on, the volume knob works for the DAC output! It was discovered by accident. If you need further clarification, don't hesitate to PM me directly. Thanks!! Penchum. "

 This means another purchase for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I also have to check for information considering the HDAM. 
 Has anything been discussed over any problems using the headphone amplifier with low-impedance phones? Hiss or anything?

 Thanks again!

 -K


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *electropop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hehe.. right.. I'm embarrassed over the fact that i actually skipped through the initial review! Shame on me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 "*NOTE* I have an update for all Zero users. Thanks to other Zero users, the true "pre-amp" function (a volume controlled output feature) has been found.
 If you press the button for Phones and the green light comes on, this means that "IF" a headphone is plugged in, the volume knob works for the headphone amp. If you don't plug in a headphone and the green light is on, the volume knob works for the DAC output! It was discovered by accident. If you need further clarification, don't hesitate to PM me directly. Thanks!! Penchum. "

 This means another purchase for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I also have to check for information considering the HDAM. 
 Has anything been discussed over any problems using the headphone amplifier with low-impedance phones? Hiss or anything?

 Thanks again!

 -K_

 


 How low impedance?

 I have some Denon D5000's that I have coming tomorrow, they are 25 ohms, I'll let you know.


----------



## x_lk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *electropop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anything been discussed over any problems using the headphone amplifier with low-impedance phones? Hiss or anything?_

 

My Zero does give a audible hiss through my Grado SR60, when no music playing, volume is 3 o'clock and beyond.


----------



## electropop

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How low impedance?

 I have some Denon D5000's that I have coming tomorrow, they are 25 ohms, I'll let you know._

 

Thanks les_garten! I'll mostly be using my AD2000's which are 40ohm. But if Grado's present an audible hiss, they will probably too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well, since it's a secondary rig, it won't matter 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll be ordering my Zero very soon. 

 Any good place to get the HDAM-module from? It's probably an easy DIY since so many have done it .. hehee..

 Thanks!

 -K


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *electropop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any good place to get the HDAM-module from? It's probably an easy DIY since so many have done it .. hehee..

 Thanks!

 -K_

 

Audio-GD

 I recommend you read this: Introduction to the Zero DAC and Headphone amplifier


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *electropop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks les_garten! I'll mostly be using my AD2000's which are 40ohm. But if Grado's present an audible hiss, they will probably too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well, since it's a secondary rig, it won't matter 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll be ordering my Zero very soon. 

 Any good place to get the HDAM-module from? It's probably an easy DIY since so many have done it .. hehee..

 Thanks!

 -K_

 

I don't know if it would help or not, but I believe there are impedance plugs for head amp phono plugs to raise the impedance. Maybe that wold help with the Hiss?


----------



## MadMan007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *x_lk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Zero does give a audible hiss through my Grado SR60, when no music playing, volume is 3 o'clock and beyond._

 

I use mine with SR80s and yea when you crank it up there is a little hiss. But there is NO WAY I'd listen to it at those volume levels, I would be seriously afraid of damaging my hearing well below that volume position. I probably never go beyond 8 o'clock for normal listening and maybe 9 o'clock for short periods of rocking out. i do think a low-impedance mod or option would be useful just to have more usable volume range.


----------



## electropop

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Audio-GD

 I recommend you read this: Introduction to the Zero DAC and Headphone amplifier_

 

Thank you!

 Very useful information. It seems the site can be 'translated' adequately.. I will look further into it once i have the amp and some free time!

 Les_garten, I've heard of the plugs, but the one's i've found googling are either as expensive as the Zero or just not available in Finland, at least in general..

 Thanks for input and good night!

 -K


----------



## closdubois

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With all this troubleshooting going on, I thought it would be a good idea to share some of what I know about the Zero, from a slightly different stand point. Many of you don't know this, but the Zero has been sold to members of HeadFi, dating clear back to August of last year. That is a year and three months!!

 Late last year and early this year, Lawrence was the only trusted seller who was "bench testing" his Zero's prior to shipment. The Zero factory was putting out some decent units, and the failure rates were much better than we could get from a US manufacturer. Then, things just seemed to change somehow. Other sellers were popping up, selling quantity to make their profit. Once Lawrence lowered his prices and made deals to compete directly with them, I'm "pretty" sure bench testing went away, except in cases where soldering was involved, like when the Alps pot upgrade was done in house.

 Then, we started to notice problems with the cleanup and QC of the boards, prior to final unit assembly. It looked like sloppy work, but I think the cleaning/QC was simply NOT DONE before assembly. It seemed like the assembly line just dropped this cleaning/QC step, opting to shove them out the door quicker. I wasn't impressed. The factory owns this problem 100%. Then, we started to notice the upgrade Opamps not being installed correctly, like they were an afterthought or something. Chalk this one up to final QC. The "seller" owns this problem 100%.

 Considering all these things, it seems to paint a "not so hot" picture for the makers and sellers of the Zero. However, all of this is only ONE part of a much bigger picture.

 The Zero factory sells Zero's in batches of 50 units, to resellers that sell on eBay or their own web site stores. We already know this part. The part we don't see, is the amount of Zero's that are sold to stores in China. According to two such stores, they are selling Zero's like crazy to the public in China! Way more than the amount of Zero's being sold around the world! So, when you think about production of the Zero's, you have to factor in a much higher quantity demand being put on the factory. Those boys must be jamming big time! We also have to consider what happens to our Zero's during shipping. It is the great unknown, but indicators show that smaller boxes are being tossed around pretty hard. We can't escape this variable, if we want a Zero.

 At the end of the day, the failure rates on the Zero's as a whole, are very good. Of all the HeadFi'ers buying Zero's, we always hear about the ones that have issues. These amount to a very small portion of the overall HeadFi numbers. Add in the units that need help after shipping, and you still have a very small number.

 So I guess what I'm trying to say, is that the majority of us who order a Zero, will have a decent Zero without problems. The problems noted above were spread out over an entire year! Considering it is a budget DAC/Amp and it was shipped half way around the world to our door steps, it is great that the Zero has had so much success. The price point has saved us a bunch of cash, and the Zero's performance has put higher priced units on notice!

 I still believe buying a Zero is a safe bet. Thanks to everyone's hard work in this thread, the small number of problem Zero's identified here, get fixed by the owners, and very, very few will ever have to return their Zero's to China for a fix. This thread has just about every fix known, and the help you can get here is some of the best I have seen on HeadFi. With this kind of backing, I would buy another Zero in a heart beat! You guys are the best!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Pench_

 

Pench:
 Went back on the site to see if I could find a description of or diagnosis for the problem that has cropped up with my Zero. After reading your review I purchased it modded with the 627 and 1364 ops and Alps pot from Lawrence in early Aug. this year. Burned it in for 150 hrs and then began listening. Enjoyed thoroughly for the past 3 months. 

 Then last week, I heard a funny swishing sound in my phones and then the power light and the optical light went out but the green phones light stayed on and there was no sound in my phones. I turned the power button off immediately. Then I pushed the power button back on the lights came back on and I engaged the phones button and the phones light lit up and I had great sound again. This happened 3 times in about 15 minutes. The last time it happened I turned everything back on and then tapped lightly on the side of the chassis and this time all the lights went out. 

 I've only gone back about 15 pages from the last page of posts when I found your above quoted comments. I don't know if this problem has been mentioned prior but would be grateful if anyone has any suggestions. As is probably obvious, I'm no electronics wizard. Thanks for any help.
 Closdubois


----------



## K3cT

Can anyone comment on how the Moon HDAM stack against the Earth? From Currawong's reply a few pages back and my other research, it seems that the Moon has a great soundstage while the Earth has a natural and flat response. Is soundstage the only thing the 'Moon' has going for it? I'm looking to smoothen the treble and upper mids and control the bass for the Denon D2000.

 As a side question, how would a Zero with a HDAM in the DAC section fare against the D3 Phyton? 

 Side question, how


----------



## MLev

Now my Zero has LT1364 on HP and Earth on DAC.
 Most of the time I listen HP, on rare occasions I use DAC.
 I wonder how long does it take to complete the burn in process for the Earth using the DAC on rare occasions.
 Is the Earth active and burning in while I'm listening HP?


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MLev* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now my Zero has LT1364 on HP and Earth on DAC.
 Most of the time I listen HP, on rare occasions I use DAC.
 I wonder how long does it take to complete the burn in process for the Earth using the DAC on rare occasions.
 Is the Earth active and burning in while I'm listening HP?_

 

If you are listening to the Zero internal headphone amp you are also using the Zero internal dac. You can not use the headphone amp without it's dac.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *closdubois* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pench:
 Went back on the site to see if I could find a description of or diagnosis for the problem that has cropped up with my Zero. After reading your review I purchased it modded with the 627 and 1364 ops and Alps pot from Lawrence in early Aug. this year. Burned it in for 150 hrs and then began listening. Enjoyed thoroughly for the past 3 months. 

 Then last week, I heard a funny swishing sound in my phones and then the power light and the optical light went out but the green phones light stayed on and there was no sound in my phones. I turned the power button off immediately. Then I pushed the power button back on the lights came back on and I engaged the phones button and the phones light lit up and I had great sound again. This happened 3 times in about 15 minutes. The last time it happened I turned everything back on and then tapped lightly on the side of the chassis and this time all the lights went out. 

 I've only gone back about 15 pages from the last page of posts when I found your above quoted comments. I don't know if this problem has been mentioned prior but would be grateful if anyone has any suggestions. As is probably obvious, I'm no electronics wizard. Thanks for any help.
 Closdubois_

 

I would be checking the power (and all) connections on the inside. The tapping the side of the case seems like a loose connection somewhere.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can anyone comment on how the Moon HDAM stack against the Earth? From Currawong's reply a few pages back and my other research, it seems that the Moon has a great soundstage while the Earth has a natural and flat response. Is soundstage the only thing the 'Moon' has going for it? I'm looking to smoothen the treble and upper mids and control the bass for the Denon D2000._

 

If you want to control the bass in the D2000s, you should Markl-mod them. Changing HDAMs wont do that for you.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *x_lk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Zero does give a audible hiss through my Grado SR60, when no music playing, volume is 3 o'clock and beyond._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MadMan007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I use mine with SR80s and yea when you crank it up there is a little hiss. But there is NO WAY I'd listen to it at those volume levels, I would be seriously afraid of damaging my hearing well below that volume position. I probably never go beyond 8 o'clock for normal listening and maybe 9 o'clock for short periods of rocking out. i do think a low-impedance mod or option would be useful just to have more usable volume range._

 

Hi Guys!

 Excellent point being made here. With no music playing, turning the amp up until you hear amp hiss at the higher end of the volume scale, means absolutely nothing (for real world listening). Unless you are stone deaf, you'll never listen to headphones at that higher level of amplification. If you do, your hearing will be damaged permanently, in short order.

 The worry some folks have with lower impedance headphones, is that they will have constant hiss at any volume, due to impedance mismatch. I haven't heard of this problem with the Zero's built in headphone amp so far. The last time I checked, the Zero was still advertised as 32-600 ohm capable. Below that range is still an unknown area, as far as I know. Maybe some other Zero owners with headphones below 32 ohms, can chime in and let us know for sure?


----------



## K3cT

That's a very possible option but I still need to look for a replacement for the fibreloft. Still, I think I'm missing something since right now I'm listening the D2000 right out of a FiiO and my XPS' headphone jack. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Anyway, can you comment more about the Moon HDAM, Currawong? I'm still at loss on what units to order. Right now I'm thinking of either the Earth or Moon at DAC and stock op-amps at the amp.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Right now I'm thinking of either the Earth or Moon at DAC and stock op-amps at the amp._

 

I would recommend the "earth" in the DAC position. It has the most neutral signature, which many of us have found to be the best for DAC use. I'm using LT1364's in the headphone amp section, which works very well with my HD-650's.


----------



## Currawong

Penchum: What have you thought so far of the Moon?

 K3cT: The Earth is the safe bet, but I don't think you'd be disappointed with either. The Moon I'd say was more relaxed-sounding, but that could also be described as being the result of better soundstaging (possibly a subtly different EQ giving that feeling).


----------



## Ben Diss

I'm a little lost on this whole HDAM thing. I apologize if this was covered somewhere in the last 800 pages of this thread.

 - What does HDAM stand for?
 - How does the Earth or Moon compare to the OPA627?
 - Where does one buy and how does one install LT1364's?

 I bought a Zero from "wz" that has the OPA627's and I'm loving it. If I can further improve the sound, I may just do that. I'm thinking about doing the Franken caps upgrade as well.

 Thanks.


----------



## Garret Jax

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ben Diss* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm a little lost on this whole HDAM thing. I apologize if this was covered somewhere in the last 800 pages of this thread.

 - What does HDAM stand for?
 - How does the Earth or Moon compare to the OPA627?
 - Where does one buy and how does one install LT1364's?

 I bought a Zero from "wz" that has the OPA627's and I'm loving it. If I can further improve the sound, I may just do that. I'm thinking about doing the Franken caps upgrade as well.

 Thanks._

 

I second this.

 I have a Zero with OPA627's and LT1364's - this was the 'Head-Fi Special' from Laurence. Does the HDAM Moon replace these? I mean, OPA627 is an OPAMP, as is HDAM Moon, correct? Sorry, I am teh confused.


----------



## ScottieB

Not exactly sure about what HDAM stands for (something discrete audio module I think). It takes the place of an opamp, and is basically a more advanced, designed-for-audio version of a opamp. While opamps may not necessarily be designed for audio applications, the HDAM units use components designed to make audio sound good. They can replace any of the opamps in the Zero, although most here (me included) seem to replace the DAC with an HDAM - others have used 3 HDAMs though. I use an external amp so putting HDAMs in the Zero's headamp would be a waste.

 So, yes, an HDAM would replace any or all of those opamps from your "head-Fi special" Zero.

 Most have noted (myself included) that the HDAMs are more dynamic and detailed than the opamps. They just bring the music more to life. It was instantly noticeable and well worth the price to me as an upgrade.

 The best place to get them is Audio-GD - many sig's here have the link - I don't know it off-hand.

 Hope this helps.


----------



## sandchak

Hi folks,
 I received the zero boards (both DAC and HP with connectors and all the opamps) from wsz0304 today.
 I must say, this seller is just great, he shipped me the entire circuit board including the HP section which was fine, through DHL gratis !
 I just fixed the boards and it works flawless..
 I just have one question, if you guys can help me out:

 1) I have hooked up the zeros through the spdif out of my onboard soundcard, when I am playing with zero preamp on (green light on - headphones not connected) in this case the volume can be adjusted by the zero - the left channel seems far weaker than the right channel.

 BUT, when I am switching off the preamp (green light off and headphones not connected or even when connected) in this case the volume on Zero has no effect and I have to use the volume control (wave) on the computer - Both channels work fine..

 Is this normal??..

 Secondly, after every song ends or begins (through Winamp), there is a pop noise on the speakers..

 Any help will be very much appreciated..


----------



## DaMnEd

Pops are a recurring problem with onboard soundcards, I'd suggest you use something better if possible.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pops are a recurring problem with onboard soundcards, I'd suggest you use something better if possible._

 

Thanks a lot. at least I have one of my queries sorted..


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi folks,
 I received the zero boards (both DAC and HP with connectors and all the opamps) from wsz0304 today.
 I must say, this seller is just great, he shipped me the entire circuit board including the HP section which was fine, through DHL gratis !
 I just fixed the boards and it works flawless..
 I just have one question, if you guys can help me out:

 1) I have hooked up the zeros through the spdif out of my onboard soundcard, when I am playing with zero preamp on (green light on - headphones not connected) in this case the volume can be adjusted by the zero - the left channel seems far weaker than the right channel.

 BUT, when I am switching off the preamp (green light off and headphones not connected or even when connected) in this case the volume on Zero has no effect and I have to use the volume control (wave) on the computer - Both channels work fine..

 Is this normal??..

 Secondly, after every song ends or begins (through Winamp), there is a pop noise on the speakers..

 Any help will be very much appreciated.._

 


 What are you listening through? Headphones on the Zero headamp? When the preamp button is NOT lit, the Zero's volume should do nothing. It is assuming you are conencting to another amp or speakers and gives a "clean" signal that does NOT pass thru the Zero's head-amp. When the button IS lit, you ARE sending the signal thru the Zero's headamp and as such the volume knob DOES affect the sound level. Whether you use headphones or not, this is still the same - even if only going thru RCA out. The relative strength of the two channels is likely due to your volume pot - the stock pot is known for having imbalance issues especially at low volumes (this would be avoided, of course, if the preamp is NOT lit, as you are bypassing the amp section in this case).

 The popping is probably just a function of how your soundcard works - ie it stops sending a SPDIF signal to the DAC and then starts a new one for the new song. I suppose it could also be the music program and how it interacts with the sound card. What music app are you using?


----------



## les_garten

Hello,
 To those that have questions about Low impedence. I just got some Denon Ah-D5000's today. They are 25 ohm and are working fine with the Zero. I am letting them burn in presently. I heard no "real" hiss issues. If I Crank the Vol pot on my LD MK V to 3 to 5:00 position or the Zero to the same position, I heard some "Transister Rush". But if music was playing, that woldn't be my biggest issue for sure. The Zero and the MK V handles the Denon's fine.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What are you listening through? Headphones on the Zero headamp? When the preamp button is NOT lit, the Zero's volume should do nothing. It is assuming you are conencting to another amp or speakers and gives a "clean" signal that does NOT pass thru the Zero's head-amp. When the button IS lit, you ARE sending the signal thru the Zero's headamp and as such the volume knob DOES affect the sound level.

 The popping is probably just a function of how your soundcard works - ie it stops sending a SPDIF signal to the DAC and then starts a new one for the new song. I suppose it could also be the music program and how it interacts with the sound card. What music app are you using?_

 

Hi Scottie,

 thanks for chipping in..

 1) I am listening through my multimedia Audioengine A2 speakers and not through headphones, as I plan to use the Zero only with my PC through speakers. For dedicated heaphone listening, I use the PH100 with my Nads.
 What happens, like I mentioned in my earlier post is that when I am keeping the preamp section on with the green light lit, the left speaker is very weak(nearly 80%less) than the right speaker, in this case I can adjust the volume through the Zero.
 This does not happen when I switch off the preamp - green light off - both speakers work as they should - In this case, the Zero Volume does not work and I have to make the changes on the computer mixer to set the volume.

 2) as far as the music application, I am listening through Winamp..

 Thanks again..


----------



## ScottieB

Well that means things are working as the should, you just have a balance issue somewhere in your head-amp. Most likely it is in the volume pot, as many others have noted this as well, but it could be anything I suppose. Do you have the same issue if you use headphones through the Zero?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well that means things are working as the should, you just have a balance issue somewhere in your head-amp. Most likely it is in the volume pot, as many others have noted this as well, but it could be anything I suppose. Do you have the same issue if you use headphones through the Zero?_

 

Just plugged in my headphones and it runs fine, no issues as such.. think its just one of those issues you mentioned..
 In any case, everything works fine otherwise - well, nice to have the zero up and running after a month !!
 Thanks Scottie + Thanks ALL ..


----------



## x_lk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_2) as far as the music application, I am listening through Winamp.._

 

Although I don't use it any more, if my memory still serves me, Winamp is able to do gapless playback with several configuration tweakings. The gapless playback can be achieved by killing the silence between tracks. There are different areas need to be tweaked, for playback of different encoding types, namely CD, WMA, MP3, OGG, etc. One of the strong point of foobar2000 is that it does gapless playback whenever it's possible, out of box. Try googling 'winamp gapless playback', if you don't want to switch.


----------



## Currawong

I need to put this back in my sig:

Introduction to the Zero DAC and Headphone amplifier. - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio


----------



## K3cT

Is the effect of replacing the op-amp with HDAM in the amp section of the Zero as profound as compared to the DAC? 

 How would the Moon HDAM do if I use it in the amp section?


----------



## Ben Diss

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I need to put this back in my sig:

Introduction to the Zero DAC and Headphone amplifier. - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio_

 

Yes, that's a BIG help. Thanks!

 What about upgrading the headphone opamp? Any guidance on how that's done and where to source parts?


----------



## arfett

I love me some detail in my music, but I'm a bass-whore at heart. If I'm using an OPA627AU or Moon HDAM which I'm purchasing soon, what would be the best chips for the headamp to pump the bass? I've read that the LM4562 chips are bassy and I've got some shipping to my house right now, but are there any others for better thumping bass?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *x_lk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Although I don't use it any more, if my memory still serves me, Winamp is able to do gapless playback with several configuration tweakings. The gapless playback can be achieved by killing the silence between tracks. There are different areas need to be tweaked, for playback of different encoding types, namely CD, WMA, MP3, OGG, etc. One of the strong point of foobar2000 is that it does gapless playback whenever it's possible, out of box. Try googling 'winamp gapless playback', if you don't want to switch._

 

Thanks a million, I searched through google and came up with the solution, and there is no more pop up sounds on the speakers, guess it had nothing to do with the sound card.

 Anyway, I am pasting the solution for Winamp users - may prove helpful :



 Gapless playback with Audio CD's

 1. Prefs -> Plugins -> Input -> CD plugin -> config:
 Checkmark "enable digital audio extraction"
 Uncheck: "Use sonic engine" (see notes below)

 2. Prefs -> Plugins -> Output -> DirectSound -> config:
 Buffering tab: Increase "buffer ahead on track change" slider
 (to eg. something between 300 and 1200ms or more if necessary)


 Note: Step 1 might require a Winamp restart.

 __________________________________________________ ___________


 Gapless MP3 playback

 Also applies to OGG, WAV, M4A, AAC, FLAC and unprotected WMA (not DRM)

 1. N/A

 2. Prefs -> Plugins -> Output -> DirectSound -> config:
 Buffering tab: Increase "Buffer ahead on track change" slider
 (to eg. something between 300 and 1200ms or more if necessary)

 3. DirectSound Output -> config -> Other tab
 Checkmark: "Remove silence at beginning/end of track"

 Default Cut-Off value = -40dB
 I wouldn't go much higher than -30dB
 A happy medium is -35dB, though the default -40dB should suffice.

 eg. If you went as high as the maximum -15dB
 then you will start to notice a fair few seconds of the actual music missing from the beginning & end of the track, so don't do it!

 Note: As from Winamp 5.2 (with native gapless mp3 playback support), step 3 is only required if the mp3's weren't encoded with LameEnc 3.90.3 or later (the only mp3 encoder which does gapless encoding).


 Important:
 Changes to DirectSound Output config only take effect after playback is restarted!

 __________________________________________________ ___________


----------



## JohnnyLightOn

How good is the Zero DAC's sound after the basic mods in Currawong's intro thread (Moon HDAM, volume pot, etc)? Is it as good as mid-priced, well-respected DACs like the Stello Signature and the Lavry DA10? Or is it just very good for around ~200?


----------



## ads2

I have just received my Modded Zero DAC from Lawrence.
 And I'm very disapointed :
 It should be with HDAM, Alps pot and LC1864.
 I have opened it and there is only the LC1864, no HDAM and no Modified Pot.
 very very sad....
 and he does not reply to my mails.

 So I just want to know if i'm alone in this case, or if it is usual with him.
 I think the guy is honnest but I think also that he does not understand well English.

 One of it's ebay competitor offered as bonus a USB->TOSLINK converter for an updagraded version (Not HDAM) but for a lower price, I have asked him if I could have such bonus because the price was higher. 
 I have the USB->TOSLINK with the Zero DAC but no HDAM and no upgraded Pot.


----------



## DaMnEd

He understands english quite well, but only when he wants.

 Your not alone: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/law...-senns-374621/

 And many other cases recently, many mistakes, he does not properly (or at all) warrant his products when mistakes are done on his part.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ads2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_










 I have just received my Modded Zero DAC from Lawrence.
 And I'm very disapointed :
 It should be with HDAM, Alps pot and LC1864.
 I have opened it and there is only the LC1864, no HDAM and no Modified Pot.
 very very sad....
 and he does not reply to my mails.

 So I just want to know if i'm alone in this case, or if it is usual with him.
 I think the guy is honnest but I think also that he does not understand well English.

 One of it's ebay competitor offered as bonus a USB->TOSLINK converter for an updagraded version (Not HDAM) but for a lower price, I have asked him if I could have such bonus because the price was higher. 
 I have the USB->TOSLINK with the Zero DAC but no HDAM and no upgraded Pot.



_

 

No you are not alone when it comes to Lawrence, but if you write to him politely - maybe he would help.
 I really hope things work out for you..


----------



## ads2

What would save me, is sending me the HDAM and pot that are missing and I will mount them myself.
 But for this, I will need reply from him...and for now he does not respond...I will wait 1 day or 2 again


----------



## sandchak

Well, fixing a new pot will require some soldering skills, but on the other hand the HDAM is pretty easy to install, so if you do have some soldering skills, getting down the HDAM and alps pot would be the best option.
 Give him some time to write back, I understand he takes long to reply, but what other choice do you have??..


----------



## les_garten

ads2 contacted me from Ebay to ask some questions and I requested he post his observations here for the good of everyone else. I had a PERFECT transaction with LC and am very happy with my Zero. But some have had bad experiences and have not been supported AT ALL by this gentleman. I won't order anything else from him because of other's experiences. The sign of a Competent businessman is how he handles problems. LC's way of problem handling is to write them off, because it will kill his profit margin for that one transaction. If he QC'd this stuff like he claims, he would have ZERO issues, pun intended. 

 Guys who run this thread. I'm making a formal request here that you remove reference to his product offering on this page:

Introduction to the Zero DAC and Headphone amplifier. - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

 "We" should not be sending more unsuspecting customers to his page. With his info on this page you are "endorsing" him in my opinion. I think I have a place to get those ALPS pots.

Audio Catalog

 Look at VR-16-100k on this page, I'm 99.999% sure that is the same POT at 1/3 the price.

 We can also post the link to LT for the Opamps page and the link to the HDAM, so all the links are there in one place to help folks out put LC's package together for themselves.

 Even though I didn't have any issues with him, I wouldn't recommend him at all, and every time I see a reference to him on the intro page, I cringe now. We shouldn't facilitate his business here with members and have them be hurt.


----------



## ads2

Les , I think you're Right.
 I have buy it to LC because he was rezferenced in the forum, so for me it was a very serious seller....


----------



## Randolph Duke

I have one of these on order from obadimports.com
 are they cool?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I think I have a place to get those ALPS pots.

Audio Catalog

 Look at VR-16-100k on this page, I'm 99.999% sure that is the same POT at 1/3 the price.
_

 

Les, thanks for that site, although it doesn't mention the particular part as Alps, I am sure it is one and at a much better price, in fact the entire site is very interesting..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Randolph Duke* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have one of these on order from obadimports.com
 are they cool?_

 

I've never heard of them, but I've got a tip on some Orange Juice futures for ya, don't tell no one....

 With Regards,
 Mortimer


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Les, thanks for that site, although it doesn't mention the particular part as Alps, I am sure it is one and at a much better price, in fact the entire site is very interesting.._

 

It does say not alps on that entry. I compared it to pix of mine and they are identical.


----------



## derez

Hey guys, just ordered myself a Zero from Wang Shuzeng on ebay the other day, and I just checked the shipping status on EMS, and it says "访问过程中出现错误." Using a translator, that supposedly means "Visits in the process to present the mistake." 

 So is this to mean there was a mistake in shipping, or is it just that the translation sucks?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *derez* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys, just ordered myself a Zero from Wang Shuzeng on ebay the other day, and I just checked the shipping status on EMS, and it says "访问过程中出现错误." Using a translator, that supposedly means "Visits in the process to present the mistake." 

 So is this to mean there was a mistake in shipping, or is it just that the translation sucks?_

 

Do you have the ems URL you used?


----------



## x_lk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *derez* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys, just ordered myself a Zero from Wang Shuzeng on ebay the other day, and I just checked the shipping status on EMS, and it says "访问过程中出现错误." Using a translator, that supposedly means "Visits in the process to present the mistake." 

 So is this to mean there was a mistake in shipping, or is it just that the translation sucks?_

 

It's an error occurred on the web site. Loosely translated, 'Error occurred while accessing the web page'. Lots of Chinese web sites have M$ IIS + ASP. They are just not as stable as Apache. Reloading the web page sometime fixes the problem.


----------



## derez

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *x_lk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's an error occurred on the web site. Loosely translated, 'Error occurred while accessing the web page'. Lots of Chinese web sites have M$ IIS + ASP. They are just not as stable as Apache. Reloading the web page sometime fixes the problem._

 

Alright, thanks guys. I'll just wait another day or two, could be that it's just too soon to get a status. The page I get with "Visits in the process to present the mistake.", is just a blank page with that sentence in the middle, so not much else info to get out of it.


----------



## Ben Diss

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JohnnyLightOn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How good is the Zero DAC's sound after the basic mods in Currawong's intro thread (Moon HDAM, volume pot, etc)? Is it as good as mid-priced, well-respected DACs like the Stello Signature and the Lavry DA10? Or is it just very good for around ~200?_

 

I have a Zero with just an OPA624 upgrade. I've compared it to a DIYEden Great March II and to a Lavry DA10.

 On a 100 scale, if an iPod rates a 5 and the Lavry a 95, then my Zero is about a 60 and the Great March II is about 85.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ben Diss* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a Zero with just an OPA624 upgrade. I've compared it to a DIYEden Great March II and to a Lavry DA10.

 On a 100 scale, if an iPod rates a 5 and the Lavry a 95, then my Zero is about a 60 and the Great March II is about 85._

 

WOW ! that says a lot about the Zero, when you compare with a Lavry which costs nearly a grand ! and I am sure with the HDAM and Franken the Zero would jump around 15-20% in performance @ a third of the price of Lavry..


----------



## electropop

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It does say not alps on that entry. I compared it to pix of mine and they are identical._

 

I have that exact one on my CMOY. Works like a dime on it's part.. Easy and big parts for soldering. Took some space in my chassis though..

 Not very expensive. Found it at an electric component store in Finland..


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Actually I wouldn't be surprised if the FrankenZERO handily beats them all...of course I haven't tried a Lavry yet...but compared to my old MSB Gold link/P1000 power base the Frankie is easily as good as that was if not better in some respects.

 That DAC/PSU was 2KUSD 8 years ago, of course I'm biased so take my comments FWIW.

 Peete.


----------



## les_garten

Hello,
 Promised I would post pic of knob when I got it. The problems I was trying to solve were:

 1) Better tactile feel, as opposed to lightweight plastic
 2) Have an Indicator that I could see and feel telling me where the Pot was pointed to.

 This one is not a perfect fit, but i like it. You can see the recess in the faceplate a little. If it didn't have the cutout, it would be perfect, but then it would not have the cutout which i like.

 If I do anything else, it will be illuminated LED!

Knob PIX

 Here's the place I bought it from:

Ebay Vender

 Enjoy!


----------



## electropop

Just out of curiosity, since I haven't got much reference, has anyone put the stock Zero against an Emu 0202/0404 as a pure DAC? 

 Thanks

 -K


----------



## Ben Diss

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WOW ! that says a lot about the Zero, when you compare with a Lavry which costs nearly a grand ! and I am sure with the HDAM and Franken the Zero would jump around 15-20% in performance @ a third of the price of Lavry.._

 

Yes, it's quite good. When you factor in the cost, it's amazing. I'm going to mod mine just a bit ... well OK, all the way see where it goes. The thing is, once you get into this range, there's nothing "wrong" with it. 

 BTW, on another note, my comparison of the Great March running balanced along side the Lavry was truely amazing. It was only after careful listening and only on some tracks I was able to A-B it and get it right, and then not all of the time. It's just that good. I'm taking it to work for my office rig which I'll run into a LD VI.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JohnnyLightOn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How good is the Zero DAC's sound after the basic mods in Currawong's intro thread (Moon HDAM, volume pot, etc)? Is it as good as mid-priced, well-respected DACs like the Stello Signature and the Lavry DA10? Or is it just very good for around ~200?_

 

I liked the sound of the upgraded Zero better than my Apogee Duet. The duet is not quite as detailed as my Lavry DA-10, and less musical. The upgraded Zero is less detailed as well, but more musical.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WOW ! that says a lot about the Zero, when you compare with a Lavry which costs nearly a grand ! and I am sure with the HDAM and Franken the Zero would jump around 15-20% in performance @ a third of the price of Lavry.._

 

I think unfortunately my Lavry will end up sold before I can compare it to the FrankenZero, but it would be interesting to do so.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Guys who run this thread. I'm making a formal request here that you remove reference to his product offering on this page:

Introduction to the Zero DAC and Headphone amplifier. - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

 "We" should not be sending more unsuspecting customers to his page. 

 Even though I didn't have any issues with him, I wouldn't recommend him at all, and every time I see a reference to him on the intro page, I cringe now. We shouldn't facilitate his business here with members and have them be hurt._

 

That's why I posted "As of late October 2008, a few people have reported that their units from Lawrence arrived defective". I created the FAQ to answer people's questions. If people want the upgraded volume pot, for example, they have to either solder it themselves or get it installed by Lawrence, so if i remove any link to him, then people will just ask in this thread. It comes to the same thing. Maybe I should persuade Audio-gd (another Chinese HP amp and DAC maker) to design a competitor to the Zero? Then we all could have anything we wanted in the design and no rubbish about dodgy volume pots or burning headphones.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_

 That's why I posted "As of late October 2008, a few people have reported that their units from Lawrence arrived defective". I created the FAQ to answer people's questions. If people want the upgraded volume pot, for example, they have to either solder it themselves or get it installed by Lawrence, so if i remove any link to him, then people will just ask in this thread. It comes to the same thing. Maybe I should persuade Audio-gd (another Chinese HP amp and DAC maker) to design a competitor to the Zero? Then we all could have anything we wanted in the design and no rubbish about dodgy volume pots or burning headphones._

 

Hi,
 We post links to where you can get an HDAM. I posted a link to the Alps pot specifically for this reason. Why would we do anything to help this guy sell more Junk? It's your FAQ, you can do anything you feel comfortable living with. 

 If it were me, I would link to the "Most popular" options people add-on to their Zero's and the resources to get them. Even if her were the only source in the Universe for that Pot, I don't think we should endorse him. Yes, you made a red text disclaimer, but your link still funnels commerce to him and exposure to him.
 How about a Poll?

 It just seems we should reward good vendors and not reward bad ones.


----------



## djchaz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I liked the sound of the upgraded Zero better than my Apogee Duet. The duet is not quite as detailed as my Lavry DA-10, and less musical. The upgraded Zero is less detailed as well, but more musical._

 

When you say upgraded which components are you referring to? I'm just curious because I'm thinking about buying a Zero soon but am not sure what upgraded version to buy. I'm seriously eyeing LC's sale on ebay, though.

 Thanks,
 -djchaz


----------



## BigTony

IDEA : I have three HDAM units which I use with my Zero in the DAC, Earth, Moon and Sun. I have been switching them about, but as my Zero is hooked into my main rig, I won't leave the top off, so its a drag.

 Here's my idea : A three way selector. All the HDAM units are connected, but you switch to the one you want. 
 Before I go and start to see if I can a) fit all three inside b) find a suitable mechanical device c) solder-up some frankenswitch - is this a stupid idea? or can it be implemented without losing any thing SQ wise? I've already done some art work for a 3-way selector...
 I love days off work !


----------



## Lss

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IDEA : I have three HDAM units which I use with my Zero in the DAC, Earth, Moon and Sun. I have been switching them about, but as my Zero is hooked into my main rig, I won't leave the top off, so its a drag.

 Here's my idea : A three way selector. All the HDAM units are connected, but you switch to the one you want. 
 Before I go and start to see if I can a) fit all three inside b) find a suitable mechanical device c) solder-up some frankenswitch - is this a stupid idea? or can it be implemented without losing any thing SQ wise? I've already done some art work for a 3-way selector...
 I love days off work !_

 


 i had a similar idea but am unable to implement due to lack of technical skill.

 however i was thinking that since you had 2 buttons to select optical or coaxial input, could it be possible to do something so that they share 1 button and toggle instead? with the other button, 2 opamp different op amp could be wired somehow and similarly toggled.

 would it even be possible from a technical viewpoint?


----------



## djchaz

If I wanted to use the Zero as a DAC and pair it with something like the Little Dot MKV, what would you guys recommend I upgrade in the Zero DAC?

 Thanks,
 -djchaz


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djchaz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I wanted to use the Zero as a DAC and pair it with something like the Little Dot MKV, what would you guys recommend I upgrade in the Zero DAC?

 Thanks,
 -djchaz_

 

That is the setup I have currently. Very nice and liquid/smooth sounding. 

 Earth HDAM, LT1364, Alps pot. I posted the link to the pot a few post ago. Audi-gd.com for the Earth HDAM, get the dual Opamp HDAM with 200mm extention wires. Do the upgrade yourself. Buy the cheapest Zero out there. The LT amps are free from Linear Technology. You should read the thread here, I know it's long. Get a buddy to solder in the alps pot.

 I had no problems with LC, if you do have problems though, you'll think you caught your leg in a Bear trap. You just gnaw your leg off and limp thru the rest of your life having lost a big chunk of flesh.


----------



## syg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That is the setup I have currently. Very nice and liquid/smooth sounding. 

 Earth HDAM, LT1364, Alps pot. I posted the link to the pot a few post ago. Audi-gd.com for the Earth HDAM, get the dual Opamp HDAM with 200mm extention wires. Do the upgrade yourself. Buy the cheapest Zero out there. The LT amps are free from Linear Technology. You should read the thread here, I know it's long. Get a buddy to solder in the alps pot.

 I had no problems with LC, if you do have problems though, you'll think you caught your leg in a Bear trap. You just gnaw your leg off and limp thru the rest of your life having lost a big chunk of flesh._

 

If he's planning to use it as a DAC only then there's no need for him to get the LT opamps for the headphone section or the Alps pot, right? Also YMMV for the LT free samples, mine say shipped as of a month ago and never arrived. :/


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It just seems we should reward good vendors and not reward bad ones._

 

Indeed I've gone one better: Audio-gd is now designing a Zero competitor at my suggestion. The price will probably be similar to a Zero fully modified from Lawrence at $200-250. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djchaz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When you say upgraded which components are you referring to? I'm just curious because I'm thinking about buying a Zero soon but am not sure what upgraded version to buy. I'm seriously eyeing LC's sale on ebay, though.

 Thanks,
 -djchaz_

 

HDAM in the DAC section. I don't use the pre-amp.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djchaz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I wanted to use the Zero as a DAC and pair it with something like the Little Dot MKV, what would you guys recommend I upgrade in the Zero DAC?

 Thanks,
 -djchaz_

 

If you have the $$ for both, get a DAC-100 and one of the headamps from Audio-gd.com. It'll come to about the same cost and the sound quality will probably be a lot better.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *syg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If he's planning to use it as a DAC only then there's no need for him to get the LT opamps for the headphone section or the Alps pot, right? Also YMMV for the LT free samples, mine say shipped as of a month ago and never arrived. :/_

 

Here's how I roll. I have an external amp also, but like to A-B up against the Zero for the fun of it. So if you don't want to put in OpAmps that would be your prerogative. They're free, who cares. I ordered 5 sets of OpAmps and got them all within about 10 days, and that was about 2 weeks ago. Persistence my friend. The Alps Pot would be nice in the situation where you were A-B ing, os using it as a Pre-Amp to Active speakers. 

 If he doesn't ever want to A-B or use the Zero Headamp ever, he can D/C it, it gens up a lot of heat.


----------



## BigTony

I spent a little on the H/A alps upgrade. Two reasons, things may change and I shift the unit to a new room (work etc) where I don't have a dedicated amp, and then the saving of 25 USD seems a little foolish, or I may sell the item, and then having one 'fully loaded' might sweeten the deal. I do use the H/A section, usually when wanting to listen for a short time (early morning before work) where its not sensible to fire up the tubes, or when I'm listening to radio etc.


----------



## oofie810

I might receive my earth hdam later in the mail and plan on installing it right away. Do I need to solder the ground wire or can I leave that alone for the meantime while I don't have my soldering iron?


----------



## DaMnEd

You can leave it alone and do the soldering later, no problem, it's not required.


----------



## oofie810

^nice, I do need to practice soldering first also before I do the hdam to my zero, better be safe than sorry. Thanks!


----------



## K3cT

A quick question. Which LT1364 should I order if I intend to place them in the amp section? 

Linear Technology - Order Samples Cart Add/Edit


----------



## x_lk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A quick question. Which LT1364 should I order if I intend to place them in the amp section? 

Linear Technology - Order Samples Cart Add/Edit_

 

The DIP version.


----------



## ads2

Finally the problem with Lawrence should be solved (I hope).
 I had to pay 25 bucks for the USB->Toslink he has sent me with the Zero DAC, and he will send me the HDAm and the pot.
 Waiting for it now...


----------



## x_lk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ads2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Finally the problem with Lawrence should be solved (I hope).
 I had to pay 25 bucks for the USB->Toslink he has sent me with the Zero DAC, and he will send me the HDAm and the pot.
 Waiting for it now..._

 

I think the one LC offers is Xitel DG2, or some other name but the same thing. Sony even used this little device as their official offering for transferring digital sound into their MD units. It's based on the ancient Philips UDA1321 chip, which, as I said in a previous post, has serious jitter problem. Do a search on ebay, you can find several different USB/SPDIF implementation. I would rank them(roughly, actual implementation and assembling quality do matter) in this order: cm10x optical < pcm270x optical < pcm290x optical < cm10x coaxial < pcm270x coaxial < pcm290x coaxial. This is only meant for cheap converters <$50, like this one currently on sale on ebay Mini USB to SPDIF (coaxial) (Use PCM2906) Converters - eBay (item 300276601659 end time Dec-03-08 16:22:54 PST). It's PCM2906 based and only $40 shipped. I'd say it's a good deal. If you can stop LC from shipping the converter, I suggest you do.

 Edit: sorry, I did not pay attention on the fact that you've already received the converter. My bad.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A quick question. Which LT1364 should I order if I intend to place them in the amp section? 

Linear Technology - Order Samples Cart Add/Edit_

 

Needs to have CN8 in the part number. If it does, it will work.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ads2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Finally the problem with Lawrence should be solved (I hope).
 I had to pay 25 bucks for the USB->Toslink he has sent me with the Zero DAC, and he will send me the HDAm and the pot.
 Waiting for it now..._

 

Lucky you ! maybe you should ask him for the labor charges for fixing the pot and HDAM, as he asked you for the price of the pclink (which you may not require..) ..
 Well, the good thing is that even though he reads mails pretty late, he does read this forum !!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lucky you ! maybe you should ask him for the labor charges for fixing the pot and HDAM, as he asked you for the price of the pclink (which you may not require..) ..
 Well, the good thing is that even though he reads mails pretty late, he does read this forum !!_

 

Hi,
 What makes you think he pays attention to this forum. Seems that if he did, we wouldn't have had a bunch of these issues.


----------



## sandchak

Thats also true, what you say makes a lot of sense..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thats also true, what you say makes a lot of sense.._

 

I was asking, what made you say this?

 Well, the good thing is that even though he reads mails pretty late, he does read this forum !!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I don't think LC has time to read this forum at all....seriously.

 Peete.


----------



## sandchak

Well, a couple of days back, the forum was talking about him after one of the members, didn't receive the HDAM and pot.. and maybe he read that and responded to the buyer.. because there has been cases he didn't reply for more than a month..


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I'm pretty sure that person would have emailed about the missing parts rather than hoping LC read it here first. That doesn't make any sense IMO. I told the OP to email him right away so it can be looked after...I'm willing to bet that is what happened.

 Not saying he couldn't have read it here......just that it's not very likely he did (IMO of course).

 Peete.


----------



## djchaz

If I decided to do the whole upgrade path with buying an Earth HDAM, LT1364, and Alps pot, how much do you think this would cost compared to what Lawrence is selling?


----------



## sandchak

Dont know about LC, but if it was me, I would surely keep an eye on this forum ( as he does get clients from here), if especially my goodwill and business depended to even a little extent to what was spoken about me in this forum..
 But then, there has been times when a lot was said about him out here about the case with burnt senns and still he took months to respond the buyer, so maybe you are right..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djchaz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I decided to do the whole upgrade path with buying an Earth HDAM, LT1364, and Alps pot, how much do you think this would cost compared to what Lawrence is selling?_

 

 I did this math recently. It is close either way. Here's what you need to ask yourself.

 1) Can you desolder and resolder in a new Volume Pot?
 2)Can you put in the HDAM and Opamp? it is easy, but you should understand how to do it.
 3) Do you want all the drama that has come about from LC recently?

 I was going to buy another Zero for a project I am working on and thought I would buy it from LC, since I had no issues from him and felt maybe he had a bad run. Then some more stuff came out about him. It is not the fact that he might have issues that require repair or replacement that bothers me. It's how he "writes you off" if there is a problem that bothers me.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dont know about LC, but if it was me, I would surely keep an eye on this forum ( as he does get clients from here), if especially my goodwill and business depended to even a little extent to what was spoken about me in this forum..
 But then, there has been times when a lot was said about him out here about the case with burnt senns and still he took months to respond the buyer, so maybe you are right.._

 

98% of all Zero sales are domestic. Just an FYI. It puts into perspective where priorities may lie, harsh as that may seem. It's still unacceptable to be making these types of errors for any customer regardless of where the order comes from. I think some credit should be handed out to LC for trying and succeeding for the most part, to give us what other vendors refuse to offer. The Head Fi deal, the HDAM and Alps pot......if the track record of late was only an honest mistake or two every once in a blue moon we wouldn't be having this debate and all would be well.

 I actually think he's so busy that these kind of mistakes are frequent and inevitable. It's too bad the best deal for a tweaked Zero turns out be a gamble when the order is placed....that is a loss to the forum that can only be redeemed with proper and prompt action from LC to make things right......I'm still a little shocked that AudioPhewl was never properly taken care of when his Zero arrived DOA. I simply cannot understand why LC hasn't put this right. It's way way too late now as AP has said. In any event that is an overall loss for the Head Fi membership IMO. As always others may fill in the gap but not offer the same deals.....

 Peete.


----------



## Ben Diss

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *x_lk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think the one LC offers is Xitel DG2, or some other name but the same thing. Sony even used this little device as their official offering for transferring digital sound into their MD units. It's based on the ancient Philips UDA1321 chip, which, as I said in a previous post, has serious jitter problem. Do a search on ebay, you can find several different USB/SPDIF implementation. I would rank them(roughly, actual implementation and assembling quality do matter) in this order: cm10x optical < pcm270x optical < pcm290x optical < cm10x coaxial < pcm270x coaxial < pcm290x coaxial. This is only meant for cheap converters <$50, like this one currently on sale on ebay Mini USB to SPDIF (coaxial) (Use PCM2906) Converters - eBay (item 300276601659 end time Dec-03-08 16:22:54 PST). It's PCM2906 based and only $40 shipped. I'd say it's a good deal. If you can stop LC from shipping the converter, I suggest you do.

 Edit: sorry, I did not pay attention on the fact that you've already received the converter. My bad._

 

Yes, the Xitel is a complete piece of crap. For the cost of postage, I'd give mine away ... on second thought, no I won't. I need to end this things little life right here.

 BTW, I replaced mine with a $30 sound card and $25 Blue Jeans cable. It's pure sonic bliss. The difference is night and day.


----------



## oofie810

I just got my hdam (earth) today in the mail that I bought from ebay and after listening to a few tracks, I noticed that the vocals were more balanced (?) with the overall music. I think with my opa627, the vocals was taking over and too in your face, but with the hdam, it seems to me that it somehow stepped back and joined the rest of the music. It's a bit weird because I was used to the vocals taking front and center. Soundstage is better also. 

 Will this change after 100 hours?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_98% of all Zero sales are domestic. Just an FYI. It puts into perspective where priorities may lie, harsh as that may seem. It's still unacceptable to be making these types of errors for any customer regardless of where the order comes from. I think some credit should be handed out to LC for trying and succeeding for the most part, to give us what other vendors refuse to offer. The Head Fi deal, the HDAM and Alps pot......if the track record of late was only an honest mistake or two every once in a blue moon we wouldn't be having this debate and all would be well.

 I actually think he's so busy that these kind of mistakes are frequent and inevitable. It's too bad the best deal for a tweaked Zero turns out be a gamble when the order is placed....that is a loss to the forum that can only be redeemed with proper and prompt action from LC to make things right......I'm still a little shocked that AudioPhewl was never properly taken care of when his Zero arrived DOA. I simply cannot understand why LC hasn't put this right. It's way way too late now as AP has said. In any event that is an overall loss for the Head Fi membership IMO. As always others may fill in the gap but not offer the same deals.....

 Peete._

 

I do not know LC personally, but if lately what I read of him on the forum represents 2% of his business, I can well imagine how his other 98% business must be handled.
 It is true that it might be a loss for the forum, but then we are dealing with a Chinese product, and I am sure someone will fill that gap, as currywong was saying that Wsz, may as well sell the same moded ZERO at the price LC was offering or maybe a little more, and if he is able to keep up the same level of service like his other products, I feel it would be worth the little hike in price..
 Just my honest opinion..


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

palatable


----------



## Currawong

Two bits of news: I can now officially say that the Zero is not just "flavour of the month" but is now "Flavour of the _year_" on Head-fi, this thread now being a year old!

 The second is, in response to the various issues and imperfections in the Zero, Audio-gd is going to design reasonably priced DAC/amp with better quality components and a better sound, for around US$200 or so. The thread for discussing this is here.


----------



## sandchak

That is good news !
 Apologies, I quoted you wrong in my previous post regarding the moded zeros..


----------



## arfett

So does anyone have any recommendations for headamp opamps that will provide a really bassy experience? These LT1364 chips are nice, but my 880s just don't have the bass I'd like them to.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arfett* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So does anyone have any recommendations for headamp opamps that will provide a really bassy experience? These LT1364 chips are nice, but my 880s just don't have the bass I'd like them to._

 

Hmm not really as I use a different amp, but if you swap out your 627s in the DAC for an HDAM you'd see a nice improvement overall. I don't know if you'd get MORE base per se, but it would be livelier and punchier and sound more effortless. Other might disagree, and I'm going on your description of what you're looking for, but I might actually recommend the Sun for what you seem to like. It was the most dynamic and lively to my ears - many here prefer neutral, in which case the Earth would be a better choice. But the Sun had a nice sound I liked too.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arfett* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So does anyone have any recommendations for headamp opamps that will provide a really bassy experience? These LT1364 chips are nice, but my 880s just don't have the bass I'd like them to._

 

I'm no expert, pretty new here. Here's my experience with my Zero.

 Beyer 770 "Premium 2005" 250 ohm, very short on Bass, Detailed mids/Highs, A little strident and Sibilant on the top. Got rid of these in a week.

 Senn HD650's(un-modded) Nice Tight Controlled Accurate Bass(Plenty), Liquid Mids, laidBack treble

 Denon AH-D5000(un-modded) Bass to kick you out the chair! Feels like I got Ghetto Blasters on both sides of my head with Hip Hop Base Tracks.

 Same DAC/Headamp for the all. I do have the HDAM and 1364's

 Waiting for Beyer 770-80 Pro's to do my Onw Woody.

 Moral: I would examine your phones. My Zero delivers base that will Rattle my Teeth on the Senn's and Denon phones.

 YMMV

 p.s. Ohhh, what rattles my teeth might not rattle yours. I did put some tones through mine and I could "hear" down into the 15 hz zone pretty well.


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

The untried watch can't hurry the hold.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry to be a newb, but does the XtremeMusic FlexiJack --> Zero DAC count as a 'good source'? In other words, theoretically speaking, is it a good enough source to have the 'best components' down stream?

 Also, is the DAC on the Zero better than say... an Auzentech Prelude Sound Card?_

 

To answer your questions......Yes and without a doubt YES.

 The X-Fi is actually being used as transport to the Zero, the Zero then becomes the source component. I just wanted to clarify that.

 I have a Prelude, although good (as a DAC) it's simply not in the same league as the Frankie. It is however an excellent card to use as a "transport" to a FrankenZERO or Zero.

 The real difference is the quality of power supplies, the Prelude's being a POS in a noisy environment vs the far superior highly regulated PSU in the Zero (and further improved in the FrankenZERO). Of course the additional circuitry of the analog/logic sections of the FranklenZERO or Zero is also far superior to the Auzen (or any PC SC IMO) because of the discrete OPA's that can be used, parts and topology being free of space/heat and a myriad of other restrictions/drawbacks that computer SC's have to deal with.

 Peete.


----------



## les_garten

Peete,
 Quick question. There was some back and forth in the beginning about the Zero PS and running three HDAMs in the Zero. The Headamp in the Zero pumps out some heat with a couple of little OpAmps in there.
 So here's the question, can the Zero run three OpAmps stock? 

 Can the Franken Zero mods run 3 HDAM's?

 Third question, ya send my kit, ehhh? I got the Iron Idling! 

 I threw in the Ehhh, so you'd understand me. I love speakin' foreign languages!


----------



## ads2

Hi there,
 Iwould like to know if the zero DAC can work with DVD players in 5.1 mode (Dolby or DTS).
 and if it works do you hear all the 6 chanels in stereo or only 2 of them ?
 Or should I force the player to run on PCM mode (less quality).
 Regards


----------



## BigTony

No to 5.1 DTS etc, you need dedicated chipset for that, 2ch. only on zero .

 Running Sun HDAM atm... sure beats Earth!


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ads2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi there,
 Iwould like to know if the zero DAC can work with DVD players in 5.1 mode (Dolby or DTS).
 and if it works do you hear all the 6 chanels in stereo or only 2 of them ?
 Or should I force the player to run on PCM mode (less quality).
 Regards_

 

Stereo only - you should use PCM - which depending on the source isn't necessarily less quality. DVD's can use uncompressed PCM in stereo, or surround with Dolby Digital or DTS - BOTH of which are compressed, lossy formats. So if you have an uncompressed source, PCM isn't actually "less" quality. 

 Your best results will come from uncompressed, stereo sources, such as CDs, FLAC files, DVD-Audio discs, etc. The Zero is not a dolby decoder or processor, it is a stereo digital to analog converter and amplifier.

 As for what you will hear (all surround channels or just two) it all depends. If your DVD player can do a mixdown and send via PCM over optical, you will hear all 6 channels mixed into 2. Usually though it is best to select a stereo audio stream if the disc has one. More discs used to include the 2-channel dolby surround mixes, but lately they don't pop up as often. I'm not sure how your player handles it's "forced PCM" mode though.


----------



## ads2

Thanks ScottieB and BigTony


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Just an additional note to Scottie B's usual great advice...DVD-A audio streams can only be played back if the stream itself is unlocked or unencrypted. MLP (Meridian Lossless Packing) is the DVD-A compression/encryption scheme on 99% of all the DVD-A's sold and as such will not allow a free and clear digital output from the transport component.

 The only way I know of to get around MLP encoded DVD-A's is to record the analog output from the DVD-A player into the computer (at 24/96 ) and save these streams as .wav files. I suppose they can then be converted to FLAC although I'm not 100% sure FLAC supports 24/96 PCM wav files for conversion. Maybe someone can clarify this for me. 

 Les, I emailed you when I shipped your kit (Nov 25). It'll be there soon !! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The 3 HDAM config for my Zero didn't give the results I expected. Some say the bass is fine (in stock config) while my findings, the bass leaned out considerably and was restored when the LT1364's were reinserted in the H/Amp section. That prompted me to give the head amp section a power supply all it's own that is posted in the Zero mod thread on the DIY forum. That did solve my issue. YMMV ...it was also somewhat impractical to do since the chassis could not allow a clean install of the new reg board and additional transformer,(nevermind the cost being more than the DAC itself )

 That is why I have another chassis still in transit from China to complete that mod properly (for a nice finished two chassis look, the 2 bolted together of course). That is still pending as are many other mods I have going on at the moment and waiting to be done. IMHO though it's better to sink that money into a better dedicated amp and use the Zero/FrankenZERO strictly as a DAC.The best SQ result comes from using the unit this way.


 Peete.


----------



## arfett

Thanks for the input les_garten. Before you responded though I had already put my 880s up for sale because I do enjoy the extreme clarity it has, but it just doesn't have the bass I need it to. I'm going to pick up some HD650s.

 I don't have enough posts here to sell in the head-fi forums, but my 880s are on sale here

 Only 2 or 3 weeks old and spent most of their time just burning in.


----------



## djchaz

Dumb question, If I'm trying to get the best sound quality in stages, should I first buy a Zero (DAC/Amp) first or a dedicated amp (No DAC)? I would be connecting it to an X-fi notebook soundcard if this helps at all.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djchaz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dumb question, If I'm trying to get the best sound quality in stages, should I first buy a Zero (DAC/Amp) first or a dedicated amp (No DAC)? I would be connecting it to an X-fi notebook soundcard if this helps at all._

 

IMHO, both approaches will Yield huge improvements. I went the Zero first route. Here you are bypassing the DAC and AMP on your Soundcard. Then you get to appreciate the quality of the Zero DAC/HeadAmp combo. Two birds with one stone. Maximize your Zero, listen a while and see if you want a better Headamp. After some time listening to the Zero, Pull it out and go back to just the soundcard. You always hear more difference going down in performance as opposed to up in performance. Then plan a Head Amp upgrade if you are a mind to.


----------



## djchaz

So even if I've upgraded the soundcard the Zero will bypass it?
 Sorry for all these questions, you've been a really big help in my purchasing decisions, les_garten, thanks a lot.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just an additional note to Scottie B's usual great advice...DVD-A audio streams can only be played back if the stream itself is unlocked or unencrypted. MLP (Meridian Lossless Packing) is the DVD-A compression/encryption scheme on 99% of all the DVD-A's sold and as such will not allow a free and clear digital output from the transport component.

 The only way I know of to get around MLP encoded DVD-A's is to record the analog output from the DVD-A player into the computer (at 24/96 ) and save these streams as .wav files. I suppose they can then be converted to FLAC although I'm not 100% sure FLAC supports 24/96 PCM wav files for conversion. Maybe someone can clarify this for me. 

 SNIP_

 

All very true... your method of recording is one way, and I've done it, and yes FLAC supports 24/96 wav or aiff. There's another way, though - not sure of the legality, so I won't go into detail - that allows you to rip the mlp from the disc and then convert to whatever.


----------



## ads2

Hello,
 Wich wifi web radio module do you suggest me to use with the Zero DAC ? I have heard about the squeezebox, the soundbridge..any other that doesn't need to be connected to a PC ?
 Thanks


----------



## kyanzes

Hi! I bought one of these beasts but unfortunately, after about a week, the only sound I got from the Zero was static noise. Similar to the sound you can hear when you crank a radio between stations. Also, I can hear clicking noises after I turn on the amp. They happen a few seconds apart, irregularly. Now it outputs no sound at all and when I crank up the volume there's no background noise as used to be. 

 I used the Zero with a DT990Pro btw. Never connected anything to the outputs on the back panel. I used both of its digital inputs (XBox360 / PC) and switched the input according to need. 
 I never used it at an extreme volume level. Think I never went above three of four notches or so.

 Any ideas what could have went wrong? I wrote a mail to the guys and I was advised to send it back, but heck, the postal fee (as it has to be paid by me) is so high that it wouldn't worth it.

 Any input would be appreciated guys!


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kyanzes* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi! I bought one of these beasts but unfortunately, after about a week, the only sound I got from the Zero was static noise. Similar to the sound you can hear when you crank a radio between stations. Also, I can hear clicking noises after I turn on the amp. They happen a few seconds apart, irregularly. Now it outputs no sound at all and when I crank up the volume there's no background noise as used to be. 

 I used the Zero with a DT990Pro btw. Never connected anything to the outputs on the back panel. I used both of its digital inputs (XBox360 / PC) and switched the input according to need. 
 I never used it at an extreme volume level. Think I never went above three of four notches or so.

 Any ideas what could have went wrong? I wrote a mail to the guys and I was advised to send it back, but heck, the postal fee (as it has to be paid by me) is so high that it wouldn't worth it.

 Any input would be appreciated guys!_

 

Who sold you that Zero?
 Maybe you could just ship the board or ask him to you one.. but then how does one know if the problem is with the board, I am sure help will be around soon..


----------



## kyanzes

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Who sold you that Zero?
 Maybe you could just ship the board or ask him to you one.. but then how does one know if the problem is with the board, I am sure help will be around soon.._

 

I bought it off e-Bay from casque_hifi


----------



## sandchak

Well, that shouldn't be a problem as he is also one of the premier sponcers of Head-Fi, hang on for a while, there are plenty of experts in the forum that can help and i am sure they will ..
 wish you best.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All very true... your method of recording is one way, and I've done it, and yes FLAC supports 24/96 wav or aiff. There's another way, though - not sure of the legality, so I won't go into detail - that allows you to rip the mlp from the disc and then convert to whatever._

 

Those programs disappeared a long time ago due to the major amounts of legal pressure brought to bear by the RIAA and reps of MLP upon those that tried to offer links to the software capable of ripping MLP. Most of the threads are 2-3 years old now...........seems to me they did a very thorough job of clamping down.

 Every link where I tried to Dl tools something like this appears.....Mininova : The ultimate BitTorrent source!

 By all means Scottie...if you have a valid link for these tools, PM me please. I would like to give my small library of DVD-A's a whirl through Frankie for testing purposes and my own fair use of a bought and paid for medium. 

 Peete.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That is why I have another chassis still in transit from China to complete that mod properly 
 Peete._

 

Hi Peete,
 Can you let me know the vendor in China for the chassis?.. I somehow want to change the original one (better half doesnt like the looks of it...)

 Btw, you must be knowing that WSA sent me the entire board of the Zero along with the HP section with all opamps (including 627 on the DAC).
 I just ordered a Moon opamp from Audio Gd and should be arriving within a week, I was wondering, now that I have two sets of op627s, would it sound better in the HP section in place of the 2 LM4562 that I have in place now.. have you tried op627s in your HP section??...

 Thanks


----------



## oatmeal769

Been awhile since last I posted... How are you Peete??

 Anyhow, I live in an apartment and so cannot do 'proper' surround sound. But I do have a damn good set of headphones and want to use another ZERO to supply them with a 2ch. 'downmix' from my Blu-Ray player.

 My question is, where is the best place, (lowest shipping, reliable, good customer service, lowest to my door cost) to buy a new ZERO? I've read back through and do not want to give Lawrence the business. He took 6 weeks to ship my last one, plus it seems he's given the shaft to some Head-Fi Members...


 Anyhow, where can I get a new 'stock' Zero cheap and fast?


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Been awhile since last I posted... How are you Peete??

 Anyhow, I live in an apartment and so cannot do 'proper' surround sound. But I do have a damn good set of headphones and want to use another ZERO to supply them with a 2ch. 'downmix' from my Blu-Ray player.

 SNIP_

 

Can't help you with where to get one (I'm a LC buyer before the nonsense started - sorry) but I too do a mixdown from my blu-ray player and LOVE it. Love those PCM/DTS-MA/DolbyTrueHD tracks mixed down and played thru my head-fi stuff - actually prefer it to the (very mediocre) surround speakers I have (as do the neighbors!).


----------



## derekv

I've had this thing for a few months now and I'm noticing some problems.
 Configured as follows, but I have narrowed it down to the Zero by trying it from a cd player with a different cable at a friends house:
 -software: MPD on FreeBSD 7, using built in usb audio drivers
 -sound module: Turtle Beach Advantage Audio Micro usb
 -cable: generic 6ft spdif optical
 -amp: zero
 -phones : akg k701s

 Issue: 
 The problem is intermittent, varying from unnoticeable (where I am not sure there is any problem) to dramatic.
 It occurs in both channels more or less equally.
 It happens at all volume level more or less equally (both with the volume on the zero and the source volume with the sound card mixer).
 The sound is difficult for me to describe accurately mostly due to my inexperience with audio evaluation in general, but i'll try my best:
 distortion is observed usually in the higher ranges however the sounds it corresponds to might be any range (from bass drum to higher stuff like snare/cymbals, I have one track with a mid range pad that seems to really set it off). 
 When it is 'noticeable but not dramatic', the music sounds a little overbright to the point of some distortion above a certain range.
 At its worst, it reminds me of clipping, but as if the clipping is only happening at certain frequencies. It also reminds me of a ring modulator. I also want to use the word crackle, but that would seem to indicate sound with a lot of pops and peaks, which isn't really the case here (unless the peaks are fast enough to not be differentiable) 
 At times there is also a sort of sound like you might get playing audio on a very busy computer, as if it is about to start dropping frames, however it never actually has instances where the sound drops out.
 There is sometimes some mild popping and crackling at times, and once in a while i'll get some random artifact, such as just a moment ago, it dropped to static in one channel for only a half a second or so. 

 From skimming around the thread it seems like other people have had problems that have been solved by replacing the opamps. What should I do? 


 (PS admins, how about starting a subforum for the zero? it'd be much nicer then having the giant thread)


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can't help you with where to get one (I'm a LC buyer before the nonsense started - sorry) but I too do a mixdown from my blu-ray player and LOVE it. Love those PCM/DTS-MA/DolbyTrueHD tracks mixed down and played thru my head-fi stuff - actually prefer it to the (very mediocre) surround speakers I have (as do the neighbors!)._

 

I've read that for the true audiophile, downmixes from Blue-Ray / DVD via headphones are REALLY tough to beat for accuracy, even against very expensive home theater setups.

 Might even break out the tube amp to sweeten the deal a bit.

 Anyone else know where to get the best deal?


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've read that for the true audiophile, downmixes from Blue-Ray / DVD via headphones are REALLY tough to beat for accuracy, even against very expensive home theater setups.

 Might even break out the tube amp to sweeten the deal a bit.

 Anyone else know where to get the best deal?_

 

Well DVD is a mixed bag because most of the audio is compressed pretty heavily (dolby digital and DTS) but sometimes you can find discs with PCM audio, though only stereo (so no mixdown required). Blu-ray offers higher-res audio - up to 24/96 at 7 channels of uncompressed I believe. concerts can be amazing like this!


----------



## Ben Diss

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *derekv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've had this thing for a few months now and I'm noticing some problems.
 Configured as follows, but I have narrowed it down to the Zero by trying it from a cd player with a different cable at a friends house:
 -software: MPD on FreeBSD 7, using built in usb audio drivers
 -sound module: Turtle Beach Advantage Audio Micro usb
 -cable: generic 6ft spdif optical
 -amp: zero
 -phones : akg k701s

 Issue: 
 The problem is intermittent, varying from unnoticeable (where I am not sure there is any problem) to dramatic.
 It occurs in both channels more or less equally.
 It happens at all volume level more or less equally (both with the volume on the zero and the source volume with the sound card mixer).
 The sound is difficult for me to describe accurately mostly due to my inexperience with audio evaluation in general, but i'll try my best:
 distortion is observed usually in the higher ranges however the sounds it corresponds to might be any range (from bass drum to higher stuff like snare/cymbals, I have one track with a mid range pad that seems to really set it off). 
 When it is 'noticeable but not dramatic', the music sounds a little overbright to the point of some distortion above a certain range.
 At its worst, it reminds me of clipping, but as if the clipping is only happening at certain frequencies. It also reminds me of a ring modulator. I also want to use the word crackle, but that would seem to indicate sound with a lot of pops and peaks, which isn't really the case here (unless the peaks are fast enough to not be differentiable) 
 At times there is also a sort of sound like you might get playing audio on a very busy computer, as if it is about to start dropping frames, however it never actually has instances where the sound drops out.
 There is sometimes some mild popping and crackling at times, and once in a while i'll get some random artifact, such as just a moment ago, it dropped to static in one channel for only a half a second or so. 

 From skimming around the thread it seems like other people have had problems that have been solved by replacing the opamps. What should I do? 


 (PS admins, how about starting a subforum for the zero? it'd be much nicer then having the giant thread)_

 

I had something very similar to that using my X-Fi to drive the Zero. I noticed that if I turn the volume on the X-Fi down from the 100 setting it went away. Not wanting to do digital attenuation, I looked at how I was running the sound card. Creative has some cool effects. One is EAX and the other I can't remember the name of right now. One of them was still on. When I turned it off and put the X-Fi volume back up, the distortion went away.

 Maybe theres something on your sound card that's causing clipping?


----------



## ScottieB

^ To the above poster (about x-fi cards) - for best results, you should skip all of that effects stuff on an x-fi card and use BITPERFECT mode along with ASIO (only available in audio creation mode). This will send the digital signal directly out of the card, with no processing or anything else to degrade the signal. It will also automatically change the clock (44.1khz, 48khz, 96khz) on the fly to match the source file - so no up- or down-converting to worry about.


----------



## Ben Diss

Where is that setting? Maybe I need to upgrade to the latest drivers.


----------



## electropop

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ To the above poster (about x-fi cards) - for best results, you should skip all of that effects stuff on an x-fi card and use BITPERFECT mode along with ASIO (only available in audio creation mode). This will send the digital signal directly out of the card, with no processing or anything else to degrade the signal. It will also automatically change the clock (44.1khz, 48khz, 96khz) on the fly to match the source file - so no up- or down-converting to worry about._

 

Asio rules in this aspect. Do you have any advice if i don't wish to run through asio, since i have many other applications i want to use my active speakers through the zero with..? I've placed an order of a 25 dollar pci-e X-FI soundcard with an optical output.. Any better ideas? In this regard I could possibly let either windows do the upsampling or the creative software, or even quicktime, if i listen through iTunes.. Am i wrong?

 I have XP 32bit, so i think it does the upsampling to 48kHz forcefully.. So letting another software do this would make windows ignore it. Which way do i get the best results? Any advice, experience?

 Thanks! 

 -K


----------



## electropop

To Ben Diss
 I don't think the Creative X-Fi's support asio. I think you would have to use asio4all plug-ins? Never tried, but recall reading about something like that..


----------



## oatmeal769

I have done some pretty sincere research with ASIO4All. My opinion is that it does NOT output a truly untouched signal.

 The only one I've seen work - IE verified by a decoder reading 44.1 PCM, not 48 is the "Kernel Streaming Plug-in" For Winamp by Steve Monks, AND using Vista. Neither plug-in worked with XP.

 Not saying it's the end all be all, but it's what worked for me. There is a sonic difference which is not subtle.
 ----------------------------------

 Again though, my question is, where is the best place, (lowest shipping, reliable, good customer service, lowest to my door cost) to buy a new ZERO? I've read back through and do not want to give Lawrence the business. He took 6 weeks to ship my last one, plus it seems he's given the shaft to some Head-Fi Members...


 Anyhow, where can I get a new 'stock' Zero cheap and fast?


----------



## electropop

Interesting.. One reason to upgrade to vista, versus a hundred others that say NO! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Tough. Vista does the upscaling with better quality too, i've heard/read. 

 To your dilemma. Try Audiophilechina.com, if google hasn't served you well yet.. Good customer-service, fast responds, and what i've read, fast shipping. Could be on your doorsteps within a week.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *electropop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting.. One reason to upgrade to vista, versus a hundred others that say NO! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Tough. Vista does the upscaling with better quality too, i've heard/read. 

 To your dilemma. Try Audiophilechina.com, if google hasn't served you well yet.. Good customer-service, fast responds, and what i've read, fast shipping. Could be on your doorsteps within a week._

 

So far that has not been my experience with Audiophile China. I sent them a request for info last Friday and nothing so far. The audiophile china sponsor thread references their poor communication skills.


----------



## pmd

what about 'snow' who sells on ebay.
 hope he is good cause i ordered one last week.
 paul


----------



## electropop

Hmm.. I received a sufficient answer within 12 hours.
 In all reason, they sould've replied to you not later than today.. There was the weekend and they are 5-6 hours ahead us Europeans..


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *electropop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting.. One reason to upgrade to vista, versus a hundred others that say NO! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Tough. Vista does the upscaling with better quality too, i've heard/read. 

 To your dilemma. Try Audiophilechina.com, if google hasn't served you well yet.. Good customer-service, fast responds, and what i've read, fast shipping. Could be on your doorsteps within a week._

 

I'll check them, thank you. Anyone else?

 Yes even just using Vista vs. XP, the difference is there with the audio quality. I've referenced my laptop with vista vs. a PC with XP. Not having XP's 'K-Mixer' makes a BIG difference. You will have no doubt it's working when you hear it in comparison to XP.

 An easy comparison is to use a dual boot PC, which is what I did for a while before trusting Vista fully, then absolutely nothing changes except the operating system version. You will hear it. 

 Going bit perfect makes another difference again, although not as big as simply upgrading from XP to Vista.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *electropop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To Ben Diss
 I don't think the Creative X-Fi's support asio. I think you would have to use asio4all plug-ins? Never tried, but recall reading about something like that.._

 

YES THEY DO!!! Look at my sig! Creative has its OWN ASIO driver, you don't even need to install anything else (like ASIO4All)!

 You want to be in "Audio Creation Mode" (not gaming mode or entertainment mode) as this offers the most advanced options. You set the bitperfect option in the audio creation mode console window - click the "settings" button and it is in there (one of the tabs in the latest drivers).

 And yes, update your drivers! Regularly!


----------



## derekv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ben Diss* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe theres something on your sound card that's causing clipping?_

 

Difficult to believe since i have verified some of these effects using a CD playing directly out of a DVD player using a different optical cable. However, just to make it more confusing, I did notice some improvement when I cranked up the buffering in the software... but like I said, it is intermittent, so that could have been coincidence.

 I'm considering getting a ESI Juli@. However like I said I think something is wrong with my Zero.

 (I wonder what happens when the number of posts rolls over to 10,000... I guess we'll see in a couple weeks.)


----------



## Ben Diss

I figured it out. Yes, you have to be in Audio Creation Mode to see it, but I found and enabled Bit-Matched Playback. Very nice. I also went ahead and upgraded my drivers while I was "under the hood".

 In other news, I placed an order for a LD MK VI this afternoon. And, right on que my Neutrik 4-pin connector showed up from Newark.


----------



## ScottieB

^Cool! Now, for ASIO, you'd need to set up your PLAYER for that. I really only know that Fubar can do it - it's the only music app I use (on windows).


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll check them, thank you. Anyone else?_

 

although not mentioned, Ebay seller wsz0304 has the most positive feedbacks on the forum if you look back, he has both the upgrade model (op627) and the standard model.. try him.


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_although not mentioned, Ebay seller wsz0304 has the most positive feedbacks on the forum if you look back, he has both the upgrade model (op627) and the standard model.. try him._

 

Very cool, thank you. I saw him back when I bought my original. Mostly, I just don't want to hear the shipping is going to take a month or more again, as with Lawrence. What a load of cr*p.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *derekv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Difficult to believe since i have verified some of these effects using a CD playing directly out of a DVD player using a different optical cable. However, just to make it more confusing, I did notice some improvement when I cranked up the buffering in the software... but like I said, it is intermittent, so that could have been coincidence.

 I'm considering getting a ESI Juli@. However like I said I think something is wrong with my Zero.

 (I wonder what happens when the number of posts rolls over to 10,000... I guess we'll see in a couple weeks.)_

 

It's not the Zero, it's your computer SC and the way it's set up. X-Fi does support ASIO. The native ASIO driver for the Auzen Prelude (X FI based SC) is written by Creative Labs.

 Winamp's ASIO support is buggy as hell with the poor ASIO plug in that is written for that app not helping matters any. I kissed Winamp goodbye for just such issues you talk about years ago....

 Use Foobar2000, it's excellent and integrates very well with ASIO4ALL or native ASIO of SC...read about the installation of both FLAC and ASIO support for Foobar...it needs to be added after Foobar is installed.

 Hi Oatmealer !!!!! How have you been ? I thought you might have been abducted by aliens or something since you haven't posted since Christ was in short pants around here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....just kidding...nice to hear from you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## arfett

Isn't the WASAPI under vista supposed to be better than ASIO?

 If not, then what should I set the ASIO latency to in foobar?


----------



## bundee1

I got my Zero from WSZ0304 in 5 days in great shape.


----------



## dr__red

Got my Zero from snow48_6. It works but I hear humming noise from the trasformator. Very average build quality. I'd say I regret buying.


----------



## electropop

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_YES THEY DO!!! Look at my sig! Creative has its OWN ASIO driver, you don't even need to install anything else (like ASIO4All)!

 You want to be in "Audio Creation Mode" (not gaming mode or entertainment mode) as this offers the most advanced options. You set the bitperfect option in the audio creation mode console window - click the "settings" button and it is in there (one of the tabs in the latest drivers).

 And yes, update your drivers! Regularly!_

 

Great news! Since i have one very cheap version on order 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cheapest i could find with the basic optical output..

 Thanks!


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dr__red* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got my Zero from snow48_6. It works but I hear humming noise from the trasformator. Very average build quality. I'd say I regret buying._

 

What are you impressions about how it sounds??..


----------



## arfett

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dr__red* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got my Zero from snow48_6. It works but I hear humming noise from the trasformator. Very average build quality. I'd say I regret buying._

 

Some say foam under/over the transformer stops hum. Aside from them not putting that there in the first place what issues do you have with the build quality? As far as I can tell it's built pretty damn well.


----------



## BigTony

The transformer humm is a problem. The one in my zero was very loud, and no amount of packing material solved the issue. I even got a step down transformer so I could run it from 110v, which although quietening it down didn't do enough. In the end I recieved a replacement from a fellow head-fier (AudioPhew) which fixed it. Seems the QA on the transformer isn't up to scratch.


----------



## dr__red

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What are you impressions about how it sounds??.._

 

I guess it is ok for what I'll be using it for ( Naxos Library -> USB -> M-Audio Transit -> Toslink -> WA 4 maxed up (on order) -> K701 ). I'm still burning it in. Maxed up WA4 should arrive towards end of this week, then I'll be able to compare Zero via MZHS 88E SACD (which is much more solid unit with very discent DAC built in). 

 Initial impression on listening to Zero via K701 it doesn't drive them very well directly. Although sound stage is there, black is very black, good details, no bass. The overal tonality of sound yeilds certain artificiality and not very pleasing.


----------



## Sganzerla

Have anyone tried to change the stock fuse on Zero to an 'audiophile one'?
 Any improvement?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dr__red* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I guess it is ok for what I'll be using it for ( Naxos Library -> USB -> M-Audio Transit -> Toslink -> WA 4 maxed up (on order) -> K701 ). I'm still burning it in. Maxed up WA4 should arrive towards end of this week, then I'll be able to compare Zero via MZHS 88E SACD (which is much more solid unit with very discent DAC built in). 

 Initial impression on listening to Zero via K701 it doesn't drive them very well directly. Although sound stage is there, black is very black, good details, no bass. The overal tonality of sound yeilds certain artificiality and not very pleasing._

 

Well, 701s are pretty demanding when it comes to amp, the fine thing about Zero is that it can be moded to an all together different level, but it depends if you are a DIY type or not, as far as the humming from the PS, its quite common although the degree of hum is varied, Not much QC when it comes to such things, especially when its a steal considering the things one can do with Zero.. there are a couple of suggestion on the forum like putting something like a foam under the PS, or even tightening the PS nut a couple of turns.. which has done the trick sometimes...


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, 701s are pretty demanding when it comes to amp, the fine thing about Zero is that it can be moded to an all together different level, but it depends if you are a DIY type or not, as far as the humming from the PS, its quite common although the degree of hum is varied, Not much QC when it comes to such things, especially when its a steal considering the things one can do with Zero.. there are a couple of suggestion on the forum like putting something like a foam under the PS, or even tightening the PS nut a couple of turns.. which has done the trick sometimes..._

 

Hi,
 Good points. If there wasn't the high shipping costs from China, these would be an AWESOME deal. You basically do not have to dump your cash into a high end SC and waste it there. A decent SC with SPDIF is all you nees, take the rest of that $$ and put into the Zero and that is a Potent combo that is very Flexible.
 The QC issue is like Russian Roulette here. If a vendor say they do a burn-in, they should eat all shipping because of QC. Of Course most of them don't do this. There is really only one trustful vendor here and that is wsz0304. Everybody else is Flaky and dodgy. Always wanted to use that word, Dodgy! I just bought a Yulong DAH1 from wsz, should be here any day now. They seem to address issues the best and are the only ones I want to deal with. If your PS is humming, they should send you another one.


----------



## dr__red

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Zero can be moded to an all together different level, but it depends if you are a DIY type or not, as far as the humming ... putting something like a foam under the PS, or even tightening the PS nut a_

 

Thanks for the advice I'll give it a go. I'm DIY enough, it's just a titanic effort of reading trough past 800+ pages to find what to do :->


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dr__red* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the advice I'll give it a go. I'm DIY enough, it's just a titanic effort of reading trough past 800+ pages to find what to do :->_

 

Check the Zero mod thread in the DIY forum


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dr__red* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the advice I'll give it a go. I'm DIY enough, it's just a titanic effort of reading trough past 800+ pages to find what to do :->_

 

You'll be a better man for it though!

 Let me help a little. I read them all when it was about 750. After the first 150-200 pages, the Opamp impressions can be skipped over by looking quickly at the subject headers. Pretty quick you can "assume" you'll be going LT1364 on the Head amp and wanting to do an HDAM or OPA 264 on the DAC. The rest of the threads are about the other impressions and some good troubleshooting threads out there.

 One mistake I made, I had decided to order mine by what I read by around page 350-400 or so. I ordered from LC. Then 100 pages or so later ran into all the complaints about him and wished I had read all the threads before ordering.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dr__red* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I guess it is ok for what I'll be using it for ( Naxos Library -> USB -> M-Audio Transit -> Toslink -> WA 4 maxed up (on order) -> K701 ). I'm still burning it in. Maxed up WA4 should arrive towards end of this week, then I'll be able to compare Zero via MZHS 88E SACD (which is much more solid unit with very discent DAC built in). 

 Initial impression on listening to Zero via K701 it doesn't drive them very well directly. Although sound stage is there, black is very black, good details, no bass. The overal tonality of sound yeilds certain artificiality and not very pleasing._

 

It would be REAL Intersting to hear your impressions on those Cans after a FrankenZero mod!


----------



## jsplice

I've been having transformer hum issues with my Yulong DAH1 mark. I don't hear it that much with headphones, but when I use the DAH1 as a preamp straight into my amps in my speaker setup, the buzz is so bad I can't even use it. Thankfully I have another preamp that I can use, which is miraculously able to filter all that crap out. Otherwise I would have returned it by now. 

 So people here are suggesting tightening some of the nuts on the transformer base, as well as installing extra shielding. Anyone who has tried that: has it helped?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jsplice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been having transformer hum issues with my Yulong DAH1 mark. I don't hear it that much with headphones, but when I use the DAH1 as a preamp straight into my amps in my speaker setup, the buzz is so bad I can't even use it. Thankfully I have another preamp that I can use, which is miraculously able to filter all that crap out. Otherwise I would have returned it by now. 

 So people here are suggesting tightening some of the nuts on the transformer base, as well as installing extra shielding. Anyone who has tried that: has it helped?_

 

Who did you buy it from? You don't hear the transformer from listening through the case, you hear it through the speakers, correct?


----------



## derekv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's not the Zero, it's your computer SC and the way it's set up. X-Fi does support ASIO. The native ASIO driver for the Auzen Prelude (X FI based SC) is written by Creative Labs.
 ...
 Peete._

 

I wasn't asking about ASIO. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I verified using a stand alone cd/dvd player (IE not in a computer) and different spdif optical cable and got the same result. Oh well, I will continue to mess with it. I'm a bit overworked and not feeling very much like a DIYer right now.


----------



## arfett

If running in audio creation mode and you are using WASAPI output instead of the ASIO are you still getting bit perfect playback? Using the ASIO driver sucks dong because if anything else at all plays sound it stops the track you're listening to and you have to stop and start the track over again.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arfett* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If running in audio creation mode and you are using WASAPI output instead of the ASIO are you still getting bit perfect playback? Using the ASIO driver sucks dong because if anything else at all plays sound it stops the track you're listening to and you have to stop and start the track over again._

 

Is this a Vista thing? because I do not have this problem in XP using ASIO. Suppose it could also be your music app or the card, too. But in my setup I do not have that problem. If I am playing music at 96khz, though any other sound plays back too slow because the clock speed is set to 96 by foobar.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *derekv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wasn't asking about ASIO. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I verified using a stand alone cd/dvd player (IE not in a computer) and different spdif optical cable and got the same result. Oh well, I will continue to mess with it. I'm a bit overworked and not feeling very much like a DIYer right now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You of course are right 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....I need to stop trying to answer everything in one post...sorry about that.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is this a Vista thing? because I do not have this problem in XP using ASIO. Suppose it could also be your music app or the card, too. But in my setup I do not have that problem. If I am playing music at 96khz, though any other sound plays back too slow because the clock speed is set to 96 by foobar._

 

X 2........I don't have any issues with Auzen ASIO (X-Fi based card) with XP SP3 either.

 Peete.


----------



## grkn

A word on ASIO, in one ABX test ASIO turned out worse than directsound. Although ASIO should work like a charm in theory, theory doesn't always equal practice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ASIO VS DIRECTSOUND


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grkn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A word on ASIO, in one ABX test ASIO turned out worse than directsound. Although ASIO should work like a charm in theory, theory doesn't always equal practice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ASIO VS DIRECTSOUND_

 

Very true - but it should also be noted that not all ASIO drivers are created equal - some may give you better results than others. The creative ones are MUCH better than ASIO4All, for example.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

grkn,

 I have a question for you WRT the link you posted.....what is the fundamental flaw of the EMU chip based Creative cards ? Why would this flaw negate or uphold this persons driver comparison conclusion ? 

 Peete.

 PS Here's your first hint : Why has Creative waited all this time to write a decent ASIO driver or even begin to support such a notion of "untouched" signal from HDD to outboard DAC via the card's digital outs aka bit perfect ?


----------



## Remains

Well I just read the first 125 pages of this thread and all I have to say is WOW...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I've got my first real cans coming my way this Christmas and so I figured I should probably get a DAC/amp and the zero seems like a pretty sensible investment for my first setup.

 I'm not sure how up-to-date Penchum's list of good OPAMPS is though, so I was wondering if the LT1364 opamp for the DAC and 2 LT1469's combo was obsolete or still a good combination. Sorry to bug everyone with this question but I'd rather not read 600 more pages to find out.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for the help.


----------



## jsplice

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Who did you buy it from? You don't hear the transformer from listening through the case, you hear it through the speakers, correct?_

 

I hear it through the speakers, and I can hear a physical hum coming from the transformer itself if I put my ear up to the dac.


----------



## bundee1

Quote:


 Sorry to bug everyone with this question but I'd rather not read 600 more pages to find out. Thanks for the help. 
 

Bad start to your Head-Fi membership.

 Laziness is not rewarded here. Read on and pay your dues. 

 Or 

 Use the search function. 

 Or 

 just read the last 100 pages. 

 Or 

 read Currawong's primer

 But you wont be able to help anyone if you dont know what to do with your own ZERO. 

 There are a lot of helpful posts in this thread that could save you a lot of time and money.

 We are a very helpful bunch but you have to appear to make an effort.


----------



## Remains

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Bad start to your Head-Fi membership.

 Laziness is not rewarded here. Read on and pay your dues. 

 Or 

 Use the search function. 

 Or 

 just read the last 100 pages. 

 Or 

 read Currawong's primer

 But you wont be able to help anyone if you dont know what to do with your own ZERO. 

 There are a lot of helpful posts in this thread that could save you a lot of time and money.

 We are a very helpful bunch but you have to appear to make an effort._

 

All I'm asking is if the LT1364 and LT1469 opamps are ridiculously obsolete or not.....


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jsplice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hear it through the speakers, and I can hear a physical hum coming from the transformer itself if I put my ear up to the dac._

 

I don't want to go very far on this in a Zero thread, but got mine today and it is dead silent and perfect. Had a little scare at first with some strange headphone noise, not sure what that was, but it works perfect. No Hum anywhere.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Bad start to your Head-Fi membership.

 Laziness is not rewarded here. Read on and pay your dues. 

 Or 

 Use the search function. 

 Or 

 just read the last 100 pages. 

 Or 

 read Currawong's primer

 But you wont be able to help anyone if you dont know what to do with your own ZERO. 

 There are a lot of helpful posts in this thread that could save you a lot of time and money.

 We are a very helpful bunch but you have to appear to make an effort._


----------



## coredump

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Bad start to your Head-Fi membership.

 Laziness is not rewarded here. Read on and pay your dues. 
_

 


 Seriously though, this thread had gotten crazy long. Trying to find useful information from the past is a total pain.


----------



## bundee1

I sent him the info he requested through a PM already, but seriously, the page before this one somebody posted a breakdown of the sections and roughly the corresponding page numbers. A lot of the stuff already covered is incredibly usefull and not just filler or friendly banter.

 Besides to get the most out of this amp takes time, a little money and some effort. Why shouldnt reading be part of it?

 Not trying to be a harda$$ but there is a lot to be gained by going through it.


----------



## derekv

I wonder if there is some way to bind this whole thread up into a downloadable file like a mailing list archive. then it could be fed into a mail or news reader and read 'offline', which would be much faster. Using this site to read is very slow probably due in no small part to the size of this thread, which is probably hard on the server/database (judging by how long it takes to search/load up a page from it).


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *derekv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wonder if there is some way to bind this whole thread up into a downloadable file like a mailing list archive. then it could be fed into a mail or news reader and read 'offline', which would be much faster. Using this site to read is very slow probably due in no small part to the size of this thread, which is probably hard on the server/database (judging by how long it takes to search/load up a page from it)._

 

If you ran some kind of web page offline viewer on the printable version it'd probably work.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't want to go very far on this in a Zero thread, but got mine today and it is dead silent and perfect. Had a little scare at first with some strange headphone noise, not sure what that was, but it works perfect. No Hum anywhere._

 

Hey Les,
 Saw you received your DAH1 yesterday, share with us with your impressions against Zero as a DAC and Headphone amp, I am very keen on it myself..

 PS. I understand this is a zero thread, hopefully comparison between zero and DAH1 would be allowed..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Les,
 Saw you received your DAH1 yesterday, share with us with your impressions against Zero as a DAC and Headphone amp, I am very keen on it myself..

 PS. I understand this is a zero thread, hopefully comparison between zero and DAH1 would be allowed.._

 

Hi,
 No problem, I'm letting it kinda smoke in right now! Nicely built unit, some of the extra cost went into the case for sure. I haven't opened it yet, but I heard the OpAmp is soldered on now where it was socketed previously. I think I'll start a new thread. This one is a Monster in it's own right. I know there are folks out these who have both boxes. I'll announce to this thread and the Yulong thread.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,
 No problem, I'm letting it kinda smoke in right now! Nicely built unit, some of the extra cost went into the case for sure. I haven't opened it yet, but I heard the OpAmp is soldered on now where it was socketed previously. I think I'll start a new thread. This one is a Monster in it's own right. I know there are folks out these who have both boxes. I'll announce to this thread and the Yulong thread._

 

Sounds very interesting, infact one thing about the zero that I dislike ( and I know I am asking for too much) is the case, and I am on a hunt for a nicer chassis that would be able to fit the Zero boards and PS (well, you seem to come out with some great stuffs online, let me know if you have seen any chassis that would be perfect for ZERO..)
 Anyway, I look forward to more on Yulong..


----------



## direcow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't want to go very far on this in a Zero thread, but got mine today and it is dead silent and perfect. Had a little scare at first with some strange headphone noise, not sure what that was, but it works perfect. No Hum anywhere._

 

it happens when i first play something on the zero, probably buffering going on. Then it's fine.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's time to remove the sunglasses 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ... my Zero LED Mod:

 1) Unscrew the LED circuit board.
 2) Remove the following 3 resistors and solder 4.7kOhm 1% resistors into the empty places.
 3) Test the brightness in relation to the green LED. If it is still too bright, try 10kOhm or more.






 4) Reinstall the LED circuit board.




_

 

I had some problems doing the LED brightness mod that you did. I used 5.6 kohm resisters. I had read here about the thru holes not being ringed but that registered a little but not as much as it should have. Not what I am used to for sure. My COAX LED doesn't light. You guys that are used to looking at boards, can you point me where to look. It seems like they go in order with one resister doing power, the next one doing the Optical LED, and the third one doing the COAX LED. I tried checking continuity, but that didn't really glean anything to me.


----------



## djchaz

Just so I can get this straight, regardless if I've upgraded my soundcard the Zero will bypass it with it's own sound? In other words, does it even matter if I upgrade my soundcard?

 Thanks


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djchaz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just so I can get this straight, regardless if I've upgraded my soundcard the Zero will bypass it with it's own sound? In other words, does it even matter if I upgrade my soundcard?

 Thanks_

 

Transports can affect sound, so, it does matter, just in a different way. But if you don't use the soundcard as a transport, and use some other way of connecting the ZERO to the notebook, like an coax to USB adapter, then your soundcard wont affect in anyway, the transport would be the adapter.


----------



## djchaz

What exactly does transport mean? Sorry, I'm still new to this audiophilia.


----------



## DaMnEd

That would be the device responsible for feeding ("transporting") the audio to your source (e.g. to an external DAC, like the ZERO), it acts much like (and some times is) a soundcard.

 Ideally a transport would not "affect sound", but for technical reasons it can, like introducing jitter to the digital stream: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jitter


----------



## djchaz

What would be the best way to connect a soundcard to the Zero?


----------



## DaMnEd

Depends on the card your intending to use, you are limited by it's digital outputs. The ZERO has toslink and coax inputs, if you can, use coax.


----------



## djchaz

I have a soundcard for a notebook with optical in/out and SPDIF out, which would you recommend I use? Sorry for all the questions.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djchaz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a soundcard for a notebook with optical in/out and SPDIF out, which would you recommend I use? Sorry for all the questions._

 

Optical and COAX are two different types of SPDIF

S/PDIF - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Joeoboe

Just want to say that I also just received the HDAM, LT1364, Alps pot from LC off of EBay. arrived in 10 days. All working perfectly. Since people often are more likely to post when they have a problem, I wanted to give some positive feedback as well. Communication was great.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just want to say that I also just received the HDAM, LT1364, Alps pot from LC off of EBay. arrived in 10 days. All working perfectly. Since people often are more likely to post when they have a problem, I wanted to give some positive feedback as well. Communication was great._

 

That is Good News for the forum !!


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

The short bit excuses into the antsy keep.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Earlier, I mentioned that the right side of my headphones exhibited a lot of humming when I turned the gain up. Now... after not too long of having this zero from ebay, I have electrical humming problems when I'm on low gain. Although, this only happens on my right ear, and only for my headphones and not my speakers when I plug them into the headphone amp.

 Does anyone know what's going on? Thanks! (Worried that this is due to bad craftsmanship... )_

 

Since it doesn't happen with the speakers and only the headphones, using the Zero headphone jack, have you checked the headphones separately (not through the Zeros) and see if the problem is with the headphones??..


----------



## helicopter34234

Quote:


 if you can, use coax. 
 

Why is coax better? Because you can upsample? I also had been trying to get a grips on what the best method for sending my digital signal to my Zero. I was using the optical out of my crappy motherboard soundcard but I started to notice a little distortion at times. This also occured with the coax out of my soundcard. I am now using the free Xitel that came with my Zero and do not notice any distortions. Would it be worth getting a usb->digital coax?


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *helicopter34234* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why is coax better? Because you can upsample? I also had been trying to get a grips on what the best method for sending my digital signal to my Zero. I was using the optical out of my crappy motherboard soundcard but I started to notice a little distortion at times. This also occured with the coax out of my soundcard. I am now using the free Xitel that came with my Zero and do not notice any distortions. Would it be worth getting a usb->digital coax?_

 

Simply, because comparably a good coax cable is cheaper and more convenient than a good optical, although the case of a pure 75ohm RCA Coax is a debate going on for ages now... I think the stock optical with zero is pretty substandard, and I am sure going coax (decent) will be far better than going through USB.. IMHO though..


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

Did the obese emotion really remind the wish?


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *helicopter34234* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why is coax better? Because you can upsample? I also had been trying to get a grips on what the best method for sending my digital signal to my Zero. I was using the optical out of my crappy motherboard soundcard but I started to notice a little distortion at times. This also occured with the coax out of my soundcard. I am now using the free Xitel that came with my Zero and do not notice any distortions. Would it be worth getting a usb->digital coax?_

 

Not necessarily. But yes, with coax you can use 192KHz with the ZERO, optical you will be limited to 96KHz, not that I would use 192KHz, I wouldn't (I have no recordings at such values), and I happened to be a believer in bit-perfect, so, no upsamples over here.

 More important reasons would be that most optical cables are made of POF _(Plastic Optical Fiber)_, and for that reason alone they are lossy.

 Other problem with POF is that a typical plastic based TOSlink has 5MHz to 6MHz of bandwidth, but for instance you require a minimum of 9Mhz Bandwidth for 16 bit LPCM...

 And a citation that points to this bandwidth problem, quoting from the _Rémy Fourré_ Stereophile article "Jitter and the Digital Interface" published in the October, 1993 issue:
  Quote:


 " A word about optical links. Still using the example above with digital signals A and B, a low-pass filter at 5MHz-typical of TosLink-causes a time difference of 121ps. A 6MHz low-pass filter causes a time difference of 33ps. For adequate performance, optical links must have a bandwidth of 9MHz minimum. To operate at 48kHz and have a 15% margin for speed adjustments, the interface bandwidth must be at least 11MHz." 
 

So, to get the bandwidth needed you need a glass based fiber cable, a quality one, that can be expensive, and the cable will be more fragile (the main reason why POF is use on most cables, it is more rugged).

 Coax cables are easily accessible, have more bandwidth, are rugged, the connections are better (RCA or BNC) and in general less problematic, so, among other reasons this is why coax is recommended.

 The Xitel is kinda sucky (adds lots of jitter), I would recommend a better soundcard or a transport like this one: http://www.audiophilechina.com/cp-sh...S_id2=77&s_id= (This option is limited to 48/16 FYI)


----------



## soundmaan

Just want to say, i replaced those NE5532 op-amps with these LT1364 today, and i like this sound very much with DT-770 Pro. OPA627 + LT1364 indeed Great!


----------



## sandchak

Anybody tried OP627 on Zero HP section ??..


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anybody tried OP627 on Zero HP section ??.._

 

Penchum did in his review. Check the very first post.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Penchum did in his review. Check the very first post. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That page I know by heart!! but I think he had written about combinations with 627 on the DAC, but since I have 2 spare 627 on browdogs, courtesy wsz, as he sent me a full replacement boards with opamps, and with my moon HDAM from GD Audio on the way, I was wondering how the 627s would sound on the amp section, currently I have LM4562s...

 PS. good to see your Lavry gone before Christmas..


----------



## brady7

Re the hum issue, I don't hear it from the speakers or 'phones, but the machine itself does have slight audible hum from about 4 feet away. It should be dead silent, right? Strange thing is, I think it was silent out of the box, but one day I happened to notice it, before reading about the problem here. Mine's from wsz.

 Thanks.


----------



## les_garten

Could one of you Electronics Guru's explain how a transformer can make a Mechanical vibration? I don't understand how that happens. It does, I just don't get it.


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Could one of you Electronics Guru's explain how a transformer can make a Mechanical vibration? I don't understand how that happens. It does, I just don't get it._

 

Transformer Noise Chapter 1 (Causes are addressed from Chapter 2 onwards)


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That page I know by heart!! but I think he had written about combinations with 627 on the DAC, but since I have 2 spare 627 on browdogs, courtesy wsz, as he sent me a full replacement boards with opamps, and with my moon HDAM from GD Audio on the way, I was wondering how the 627s would sound on the amp section, currently I have LM4562s...

 PS. good to see your Lavry gone before Christmas.._

 

Not sure where it is exactly in the thread, but yes, Pench (and others) tried the 627 in the amp section with less than stellar results - but hey - if you have them why not just try for yourself? Noone knows better than your own ears!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Transformer Noise Chapter 1 (Causes are addressed from Chapter 2 onwards)_

 

Good article, it's a wonder any of them are quiet!


----------



## jujulio

Hi, here is the thing: i am french and study in canada, i plan on buying the zero for xmas....but there is no switch for the voltage and since i am to leave for france in like 6 months i d like to use the zero in both countries (110v and 220v). So i decided to buy a power converter like this one:110-220 & 220-110V European Travel Power Converter 100w - eBay (item 270301058886 end time Dec-10-08 16:42:38 PST)

 Is 100 watts enough to drive the zero? May i damage it using a power converter?

 thanks


----------



## BigTony

100 watts is enough.
 Why doesn't it have a power selector to switch between 110-220volts?


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jujulio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, here is the thing: i am french and study in canada, i plan on buying the zero for xmas....but there is no switch for the voltage and since i am to leave for france in like 6 months i d like to use the zero in both countries (110v and 220v). So i decided to buy a power converter like this one:110-220 & 220-110V European Travel Power Converter 100w - eBay (item 270301058886 end time Dec-10-08 16:42:38 PST)

 Is 100 watts enough to drive the zero? May i damage it using a power converter?

 thanks_

 

Actually the ZERO has "the switch" 110v-220v, mine certainly did, so you can use this unit worldwide without any power converter, you just have to flip the switch and use the proper cable for the country, and be careful, make sure you have the right setting before you turn on the unit.

 Have a look: tianyun100.com


----------



## jujulio

really? strange, the ebay dealer specifically ask you to decide between the two options....its the upgraded option with the opa627...maybe its not available anymore....kinda suckx if that's the case
 i guess i'll ask the dealer
 thank you for your replies

 edit: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ayphotohosting

 you can see there is no longer a switch 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 i guess a power converter will not give a quite 'steady' current, which may alter the sound a bit, but i don' want to invest in a more refined converter


----------



## DaMnEd

I had a look on ebay, and wsz0304 (and probably others) from the pictures sells a version that does not have this capability.

 I purchased mine from audiophilechina, and mine did have the switch like the one you see in the manufacturer website.

 Anyway, audiophilechina asks the same question, but only to make sure they send you the unit with the right setting and avoid you blowing up the unit, because many would not care to check it and would just leave it as the manufacturer ships.

 Ask your ebay seller if the version they sell has the switch, the pictures may be from an older (or newer) version that would not have this capability.


----------



## jujulio

mhhh ok that makes sense, what if they send me an 'old' unit? Do they just differ in regard of this switch, or is the build different? (the seller advertises it as an upgraded version so i find it surprising if they would send 'old' version with the opa627)

 by the way thanks for quoting audiophile china, i didn't know about it, maybe it's a cheaper solution for me, i'll check the shipping fares....though it's not the opa627, do you know if they allow you to chose an 'upgraded version'?

 thanks


----------



## DaMnEd

Some changes have been made regarding the enclosure (added vent bars) but I am unaware of other changes, most sellers sell the opa627 "upgraded" but they do the change themselves, not the manufacturer as far as I know (this may have changed since the opa627 became the popular choice).

 The manufacturer may have changed the transformer to one that is not capable of dual primary voltage, this change may or may not have been a result of some problems with "humm" reported here and elsewhere.

 I had the version with switch and had no Hum problems, but... you never know, better to ask and confirm. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 As far as I know audiophilechina does not provide a version with the OPA627, but you can always ask, still, you can get the OPA627 elsewhere and upgrade the unit yourself, or maybe go for the better option, an Audio-GD HDAM, it is a very simple thing to do, remove one, place another.


----------



## jujulio

So choosing a version which doesn't allow to switch would be a safe choice regarding the humming? Maybe it's because the power supply is solely designed for a dedicated current which enhances a steady signal? (i looked a bit in the previous article posted regarding the humming and electro-magnetical noise due to alternative current, though i wonder if i would be able to hear it, even with my HD650, i mean i am not sure to have golden ears lol) btw, if any of you know of a way to test your audition, i'll be interested, like a web based test maybe?


----------



## DaMnEd

If such a change was really put in affect with the newer versions, yes, I suspect that would be the reason, but I do not know this for a fact, only the manufacturer (or the seller because he probably was informed by manufacturer as to why) would be able to confirm.


----------



## les_garten

Mine has a voltage switch and it does not hum.


----------



## jujulio

From what i read, it's quite normal if you don't, it's just that there is a kind of 'standard deviation' with the zero, therefore though you buy the same zero as another, one will have a humming sound to it, or a shortened life....i don't know how much this is through though, because one will be more likely to post his experience with a product if it was bad than the opposite :s...but still around a 100 bucks for this good a quality it's worth the risk i think. (i intend to push it a step further with the franken mod, do anyone know of a good soldering iron on ebay, or available in Canada? thanks)

 -DaMnEd 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




k well i'll ask the seller about that...smells fishy, you don't know what you've paid for in advance...i'll try my best to get the 'switch' version


----------



## DaMnEd

I suspect the new versions are the one with the switch actually (cuts cost), and the sellers on ebay just have old pictures, if you look at the first post in this thread, the Penchum pictures, his unit has no switch, and his unit is older than mine was, much older, and probably one of the first batches.

 This is why you should ask your seller if the current units he stocks have the switch, they probably do and you won't have to buy a power converter.


----------



## K3cT

Just got my Zero with Moon and Earth HDAMs plus some LT1364s. Jesus, it's a phenomenal improvement compared with the Sigmatel HD audio chip in my XPS. Initial comparison between the 2 HDAM modules reveal that the Earth is more forward sounding that the Moon. Right now I'm not sure which one I like better, gonna burn-in the Moon first for the next few days.


----------



## brady7

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *brady7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Re the hum issue, I don't hear it from the speakers or 'phones, but the machine itself does have slight audible hum from about 4 feet away. It should be dead silent, right? Strange thing is, I think it was silent out of the box, but one day I happened to notice it, before reading about the problem here. Mine's from wsz.

 Thanks._

 

I guess I didn't really pose a question here...should the unit be considered defective, or should I just learn to live with the hum?


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *brady7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I guess I didn't really pose a question here...should the unit be considered defective, I should I just learn to live with the hum?_

 

I've seen here one case where the Hum was present (few pages back), and after a new transformer was installed, the hum was gone. The new transformer was given by a member that had a broken ZERO laying around, and offered the transformer to this member with the Hum problem. 

 So, given that the "new" transformer was the same model and had no Hum, yes, that should be considered defect, ask your seller if he can send you only a new transformer, from what I understand wsz will do this for you at no cost to you. And ask him to test the transformer and confirm no hum is present before shipping it, just to be safe.


----------



## x_lk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jujulio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_do anyone know of a good soldering iron on ebay, or available in Canada?_

 

I got my 50W WELLER soldering station from Active Compoments (www.active123.com) and have been pretty happy with it.


----------



## jujulio

thanks X lk, but it's an overkill for me, i just intend to buy one for modding the zero (10hours labour if i am correct) and won't use it afterwards, but do you think a 30w iron is enough for soldering components?


----------



## x_lk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jujulio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thanks X lk, but it's an overkill for me, i just intend to buy one for modding the zero (10hours labour if i am correct) and won't use it afterwards, but do you think a 30w iron is enough for soldering components?_

 

You're welcome. 30W should be enough. I even used 15W before. From my experience, a bigger one actually helps when doing desoldering - not sure if this is just for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 WELLER may be a bit expensive, but Active Components does carry economy soldering tools.


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

The likeable case can't match the extreme.

Is the whistle divide better than the woman?


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so i was looking into dedicated headphone amps.. and i stumbled upon the headroom ultra micro amp which boasts the opa627 bb. how would this headphone amp sound quality be different than a modified zero with the same op-amp? i suppose that the 700 dollar price tag is not related to the op-amp alone but the cross-feed function and with the different inputs, but still.. seems like a big price difference._

 

The price tag is related to much more than a cross-feed, opamps, inputs, it is related to every aspect of the unit, that is in a completely different league.

 You can find audio equipment costing thousands of dollars what will have the same opamp the ZERO has or can have, this by no means means they will sound even close to each other, their is so much more to an amp. The amp on the ZERO is a OK amp, does the job, but it is nothing special or even good really, specially when comparing to a dedicated amp like the headroom amps.

 The opamps cost you 30$ out of the 700$ if that..


----------



## jujulio

that leads me to this question: i intend to buy a little dot mkv after the zero. Is it of any use to use the amp section of the zero if i buy the mkv? Or am i better off turning it off?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jujulio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_that leads me to this question: i intend to buy a little dot mkv after the zero. Is it of any use to use the amp section of the zero if i buy the mkv? Or am i better off turning it off?_

 

The Mk V Blows the Stock Zero's Head amp away in Base Extension and tightness, midrange detail, and everywhere else. Unfair comparison. It's fun going back and forth real easy though. And with the Zero Vol Pot, you can match the levels and go back and forth with little drama to do A-B comparisons. Zero + MK V is a Nice Combo. The Zero Head amp makes a lot of heat though, and long term, I most likely will D/C it.


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jujulio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_that leads me to this question: i intend to buy a little dot mkv after the zero. Is it of any use to use the amp section of the zero if i buy the mkv? Or am i better off turning it off?_

 

You would be bypassing the amp circuit completely and only using the DAC on the ZERO.

 And regarding the LD MKV, read this: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...ot-mkv-383033/


----------



## jamato8

I checked with the distributor that makes the mini to mini plastic optical cables I use. The bandwidth is a minimum of 38MHz to a max of100MHz.

 I am wrong. The newest plastic cables have a higher bandwidth than what I stated. I have the white paper if anyone wants it. It would appear there is plenty of bandwidth with the plastic cable I use mini to mini and mini to toslink.


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I checked with the distributor that makes the mini to mini plastic optical cables I use. The bandwidth is a minimum of 38MHz to a max of100MHz.

 I am wrong. The newest plastic cables have a higher bandwidth than what I stated. I have the white paper if anyone wants it. It would appear there is plenty of bandwidth with the plastic cable I use mini to mini and mini to toslink._

 

The article quoted is from 1993, stands to reason the process has evolved quite a lot since then, making such BW possible in POF. Much like plastic based lens these days, not quite up-to glass, but allot better than 10 years ago. Still, when it comes to TosLink I would probably go for glass (probably a OPTOCOUPLER) as BW is not the only issue (if at all these days) with POF (lossy?, I'd like to see specs/test about this particular spec). 

 Not too recent but should still stand, and may be of interest to some: 6moons.com - audio reviews: A Toslink vs. RCA digital cable comparison


----------



## jamato8

Plastic transmission has come a long ways. Bandwidth on what I quoted above has increased 3 fold. I will take the plastic and ability to flex and bend over and over to the more delicate and expensive glass, when the plastic is done right. I get mine out of Canada, they aren't expensive and I can get lengths including the ends of 3.5 inches.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Plastic transmission has come a long ways. Bandwidth on what I quoted above has increased 3 fold. I will take the plastic and ability to flex and bend over and over to the more delicate and expensive glass, when the plastic is done right. I get mine out of Canada, they aren't expensive and I can get lengths including the ends of 3.5 inches._

 

I bought a beautiful "Plastic" Toslink with heavy metal connectors and covered in Multifilament Nylon for Bumpkus from Monoprice. Bought one of their Dirt cheap Coax's that is nice too. Compared it all to High Dollar Audioquest COAX, no difference in sound quality. My Optical is 12 feet long with bright light coming out. Cost something like $5 or $8 or something so cheap I was amazed. Monoprice has got Kewl stuff CHEAP!


----------



## jujulio

thanks for the tip dude! i am gonna buy this to connect my audigy 2xz platinum pro to my future zeo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



For only $2.98 each when QTY 50+ purchased - 6ft High-quality Coaxial Audio/Video RCA CL2 Rated Cable - RG6/U 75ohm (for S/PDIF, Digital Coax, Subwoofer & Composite Video) | High Quality RG6 Digital Audio 24K Gold-Plated Cable w/ Fancy Connector


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jujulio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thanks for the tip dude! i am gonna buy this to connect my audigy 2xz platinum pro to my future zeo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


For only $2.98 each when QTY 50+ purchased - 6ft High-quality Coaxial Audio/Video RCA CL2 Rated Cable - RG6/U 75ohm (for S/PDIF, Digital Coax, Subwoofer & Composite Video) | High Quality RG6 Digital Audio 24K Gold-Plated Cable w/ Fancy Connector_

 

Yeah, it's brother lives at my house!


----------



## Ben Diss

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine has a voltage switch and it does not hum._

 

Mine has the switch and it has no hum. I do have very clean power here though.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Mk V Blows the Stock Zero's Head amp away in Base Extension and tightness, midrange detail, and everywhere else. Unfair comparison. It's fun going back and forth real easy though. And with the Zero Vol Pot, you can match the levels and go back and forth with little drama to do A-B comparisons. Zero + MK V is a Nice Combo. The Zero Head amp makes a lot of heat though, and long term, I most likely will D/C it._

 

This is the combo that I'm using right now. Great sound/cost ratio. Sounds great, didn't cost much.


----------



## jujulio

Thanks for your post quoted there garten, i will still use my old marantz 2225l then...but the volume knob kinda hiss at certain volume areas :s


----------



## AudioPhewl

Ah, poo. Looks like my Zero has died over the last 2 days. I moved my room around, the other day, plugged everything in and tested my stereo was working - which it was, and it was being fed by the Zero. PC has been powered up the whole time(20+ days), so I'm quite confident nothing has changed on that side of things. I've rebooted it since the problem started to ensure that it wasn't the cause - it didn't make any difference. I know the sound card(AV-710) itself is working, as I'm now using its built-in DAC to feed my headphones and stereo.

 Now, I've got no sound coming out from either the RCAs or the headphone amplifier. I've pulled the case, and the LED is illuminated confirming an optical signal lock from the PC. The headphone amplifier is working properly, as I can hear hiss when the volume is all the way up, with a slight buzz in each channel if I touch either of the opamps on the headphone amplifier board.

 Have removed the HDAM from the DAC section, and swapped it for my other one, with no difference. Even tried a trusty old opamp in there, but with no avail.

 Removed the DAC PCB and inspected underneath. Nowt has burned. There is no change to the sound output when tapping components on the top of the board whilst the unit is powered up.

 Have tried the optical output from my Sky+ satellite box - I've never tested it before, so this isn't really 100% confirmation, but the Zero locked on to the signal and still produced no sound. Optical is enabled in the menu on the Sky box, so I'll assume it's doing what it should be.

 Oh well, such is life. I doubt I'll buy another Zero - I've had one that's worked great from the off, which now lives with my brother. My second one was DOA, and the seller skanked me. The third one worked great for several months... I've not had the best success rate with them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 Can't return it, as it's been well modified. Most of the capacitors have been upgraded, so the warranty would be well-and-truly extinct. Besides, it'd probably cost me £30 to mail back to China, which I can't be bothered with.

 I'll try and get the 'scope on it at some point over the next few days, try and diagnose exactly what has gone wrong.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## jujulio

too bad you got to be one of the unhappy ones with the zero, though you're not sure of you're optical out....so it might still be your cable that's not working, worth looking into i think


----------



## AudioPhewl

Tried 2 cables. Signal lock LED illuminates with both, so I'd say it's a fair assumption that both are working correctly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .

 I've tried 2 sources with optical out, with both cables, with no joy. I'll try and dig out my M-Audio Revolution soundcard to try it with coax, but I'm not hopeful.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## jujulio

i am not an expert, but if you had rhe right material you could check portions of the circuitry to identify the defectious ones (or ask someone to do it) hope the coax will work for you


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tried 2 cables. Signal lock LED illuminates with both, so I'd say it's a fair assumption that both are working correctly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 .

 I've tried 2 sources with optical out, with both cables, with no joy. I'll try and dig out my M-Audio Revolution soundcard to try it with coax, but I'm not hopeful.

 ~Phewl._

 

Bad luck there homes! 

 If it were me, I would first check all my solder joints that were hit during the Cap upgrades, maybe movement or something made a marginal joint fail. Take the OpAmp out of the Headamp into the DAC and see if the dac comes to life. Then it's the VOM. I think you are not the only guy to have one fail down the road after some good runtime. The Boards are soldered together pretty crappy, and the quality BEFORE the solder monkeys gets to them is bad as well.


----------



## AudioPhewl

The DAC itself hasn't moved though mate. Not even the cable from the PC to the DAC. The stereo, my speakers, and my TV all had to be moved for the satellite receiver to be fitted(wall needed drilling).

 As I said before, it worked directly after I put everything back, but has stopped functioning over the last couple of days.

 My soldering had been fine for several months prior. I used to repair mobile phones and laptop boards, so I'm not inexperienced in replacing big things like capacitors 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 I'll get the 'scope on it soon and see what's what. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## AudioPhewl

BTW, what is "VOM"?


----------



## jujulio

wow so it can really go down after a while :s too bad...is it due to the heat? are there any mod regarding the issue? maybe some ventilator or heat pipe??

 edit: what if i use solely the dac section? should i still expect heat issues?


----------



## mattcalf

Is it possible to do a mod to change to output to a 1/4" jack?

 Cheers,
 Matt.


----------



## jujulio

Is it not already a 1/4?? i was told 1/4 are better on the long term with less hiss problems...


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW, what is "VOM"?_

 

Don't take it personal, wasn't tryin' to diss ya. VOM=VolT Ohm Meter. Ya probably really don't know what a VTVM is then!


----------



## mattcalf

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jujulio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it not already a 1/4?? i was told 1/4 are better on the long term with less hiss problems..._

 

Oooh, my mistake.

 Yeah, disregard my earlier question as it does come with a 1/4" out.


----------



## jujulio

Do you think it's possible to add a PC fan? How could you use the power supply to make it work? and i guess you would have to cut a square in the unit to place the fan which would extract hot air outside the zero....if it's doable i definitely want to know how? actually one review for this fan says it can be used to cool a onkyo receiver: For only $6.61 each when QTY 50+ purchased - Enermax Marathon 120mm Fan - Magnetic Bearing | Case Cooling Fan but he placed it directly over the receiver vent, i d like a more 'refined' option


----------



## Lss

does it really require one? its not really that hot.


----------



## goorackerelite

I was browsing headfi after a long haitus from the site and this thread came up. After about a few weeks I thought to my self I'll give this DAC a try. BOY am I glad I got this unit. I've had it for about 10 hours and I'm totally satisfied with this DACs performance. Soundstage and image depth and instrument separation totally came about on my HD650, the high frequency extension is amazing and the bass is blossoming nicely after just about 10 hours of burn in. I can't wait to journey further into burn in with this gem. Thank you again Penchum for keeping this thread alive and well, and for the great recommendation. I would have gladly paid twice for this unit...... Shhhh don't tell anyone


----------



## sandchak

...and then there is the question of adding more noise along with that of the power supply - If there is, off course..


----------



## stellablues

I am having an weird issue with my zero. I modified the RCA jacks a few months ago and everything seemed to be fine in my old apartment. In my new place I have optimized the stereo setup and have noticed a very weird issue. I have almost no channel separation using the RCA outputs to my speakers. 

 I compared the same piece of music playing through a different dac and channel separation there is amazing. This is how I first noticed the issue. i was comparing cd > Ack dac vs iTunes > Airport express > zero. Right now my zero sounds like a mono DAC. Every piece of music I try has almost complete channel bleed into both speakers. When there should be a specific instrument in left and another in right ( the specific part has guitar only in left channel and piano in the right) I here both right down the center. Isolating each speaker gives me almost identical sound coming from left/right.

 If the problem was upstream or from the Zero in the digital domain, I would expect the headphone out to have the same issue, but it does not, listening through my HD580s sounds perfect, giving me a very distinct left and right channel... (guitar on the left and piano isolated on the right)...

 Does anyone have any idea what could cause this loss of separation just at the RCA outs and not through headphones? My new wire from the board to the rca jacks look clean and not crossed or shorted.

 Any ideas would be helpful.


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

Is the hug mixture better than the student?

The massive principle can't tempt the sick.


----------



## pmd

my zero is here and i am happy.
 bought 11-22-08 from ebay seller snow. paid through paypal ( my bank checking account - which takes extra few days to clear).... delivered to my home by fed ex 12-05-08. very well wrapped. good communication (tracking).
 with just the grado 80's and listening to some wes montgomery , jacintha and some henry mancini... this is indeed a bargain. and with breakin promise of enhancement.
 the only thing i see (not hear) is that the assembly of the shell to the face plate is a little off.... such that the the shell edge that butts up to the face plate behind the upper right edge of the face plate can be seen protruding out. it is a slight malalignment of the assembly of the 2 parts. it perhaps could be corrected... not sure yet. the other thing is that the power button and the phone jack appear to be slightly off center of face plate holes. probably part of the same above problem .




 paul


----------



## RipcordAFF

I also received my zero today, and it sounds great. However, I have this ridiculous clicking noise. I have done some research here and I guess its coming from the relays switching on and off whenever they receive a signal.

 I am running coax from my realtek onboard sound. This is unbelievably annoying. If im not listening to music, every time the computer makes a noise (forward\back in browser, new mail, alert ding, whatever) there is a pretty loud "click......click" as the relay turns on and off.

 Is there anyway to get rid of this? I have tried uninstalling and reinstalling the realtek drivers as well as updating them, no luck. 

 ANY help would be appreciated...


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RipcordAFF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I also received my zero today, and it sounds great. However, I have this ridiculous clicking noise. I have done some research here and I guess its coming from the relays switching on and off whenever they receive a signal.

 I am running coax from my realtek onboard sound. This is unbelievably annoying. If im not listening to music, every time the computer makes a noise (forward\back in browser, new mail, alert ding, whatever) there is a pretty loud "click......click" as the relay turns on and off.

 Is there anyway to get rid of this? I have tried uninstalling and reinstalling the realtek drivers as well as updating them, no luck. 

 ANY help would be appreciated..._

 

I could be way off on this, but as far as I know, this is just the way that sound chip works. Getting a different audio card should help this - my x-fi doesn't have this problem (nor does my mac pro's built-in optical out). Probably not what you wanted to hear - so maybe I'm wrong...


----------



## BigTony

Have you disabled windows sounds? Try to turn them all off.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RipcordAFF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I also received my zero today, and it sounds great. However, I have this ridiculous clicking noise. I have done some research here and I guess its coming from the relays switching on and off whenever they receive a signal.

 I am running coax from my realtek onboard sound. This is unbelievably annoying. If im not listening to music, every time the computer makes a noise (forward\back in browser, new mail, alert ding, whatever) there is a pretty loud "click......click" as the relay turns on and off.

 Is there anyway to get rid of this? I have tried uninstalling and reinstalling the realtek drivers as well as updating them, no luck. 

 ANY help would be appreciated..._

 

 Click spkr on Lower right task bar, At bottom of Vol slider
 Note "Mixer" >> Click on Mixer >> In Vista, you can turn off Just Browser sounds , etc. I have not used XP in a while, you may have to use the sound app in the control for it. It's amazing you put up with it for this long to not have addressed this earlier. This is like the first thing i do when i build a computer. The browser is especially irritating to me.


----------



## RipcordAFF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Click spkr on Lower right task bar, At bottom of Vol slider
 Note "Mixer" >> Click on Mixer >> In Vista, you can turn off Just Browser sounds , etc. I have not used XP in a while, you may have to use the sound app in the control for it. It's amazing you put up with it for this long to not have addressed this earlier. This is like the first thing i do when i build a computer. The browser is especially irritating to me._

 



 Well i use Opera mostly, so it doesnt have noise (but I have to use IE for this site for some reason...)

 Anyways, yeah I do see where I can shut up all windows sounds, but then i do lose things that I do like, such as new mail notifications etc. It is just irritating that the realtek coax out continually lets the signal go and reacquire it for every sound. 

 So it does sound like I could upgrade sound cards...that is one option, but it seems a little superfluous if im only using it for digital out..but if thats the only way I guess I could try it


 Last question, what should the settings on the digital out be. There is two sets of options, pictures attached below. I guess I dont understand what the sample rates should be. (sources are mp3s 192-320 kbps)


----------



## jujulio

well if you want to buy a different sound card this one is great :Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS Platinum Pro Refurbished - 70SB036001001-8 - Sound Card

 i have it and like it very much (though i had to use unofficial drivers on vista)

 plus for 80 dollars on clearance sale its a good deal if you can seize it (and the remote is sweet ^^)

 edit: well you just need a digital out (since the zero will process the signal, not your soundcard) so maybe 80 dollars is too much...i don't know of any soundcard only offering a digital out


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RipcordAFF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I also received my zero today, and it sounds great. However, I have this ridiculous clicking noise. I have done some research here and I guess its coming from the relays switching on and off whenever they receive a signal.

 I am running coax from my realtek onboard sound. This is unbelievably annoying. If im not listening to music, every time the computer makes a noise (forward\back in browser, new mail, alert ding, whatever) there is a pretty loud "click......click" as the relay turns on and off.

 Is there anyway to get rid of this? I have tried uninstalling and reinstalling the realtek drivers as well as updating them, no luck. 

 ANY help would be appreciated..._

 

Your soundcard is disabling the digital signal when no sound is being produced. It's not a problem with the Zero, an alternative soundcard should alleviate this problem, though there may be updated or tweaked drivers...

 Just a quick update on my Zero. I've pulled the board and reflowed the receiver and DAC ICs. No difference.

 I might just grab one of these to replace it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ~Phewl.


----------



## randomasdf

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Joeoboe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just want to say that I also just received the HDAM, LT1364, Alps pot from LC off of EBay. arrived in 10 days. All working perfectly. Since people often are more likely to post when they have a problem, I wanted to give some positive feedback as well. Communication was great._

 

LC? 
 It would be nice if you could supply a link, or more information =x
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your soundcard is disabling the digital signal when no sound is being produced. It's not a problem with the Zero, an alternative soundcard should alleviate this problem, though there may be updated or tweaked drivers..._

 

I "fixed" it by getting an M-Audio sonica, but I kind of feel like I should've gone with a coax of some sort instead =\


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *randomasdf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LC? 
 It would be nice if you could supply a link, or more information =x_

 

LC = _Lawrence_ aka _biglawhk_ @ _eBay_


----------



## soundmaan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RipcordAFF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I also received my zero today, and it sounds great. However, I have this ridiculous clicking noise. I have done some research here and I guess its coming from the relays switching on and off whenever they receive a signal.

 I am running coax from my realtek onboard sound. This is unbelievably annoying. If im not listening to music, every time the computer makes a noise (forward\back in browser, new mail, alert ding, whatever) there is a pretty loud "click......click" as the relay turns on and off.

 Is there anyway to get rid of this? I have tried uninstalling and reinstalling the realtek drivers as well as updating them, no luck. 

 ANY help would be appreciated..._

 

I have in my pc too realtek onboard sound and e-mu 0404 soundcard. With e-mu i haven't noticed any clicking or anything else like that to zero. When i turn on that realtek coax out to zero, the same clicking sound starts, what you have.

 So, if you get another soundcard, i believe that clicking ends. Hope so


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your soundcard is disabling the digital signal when no sound is being produced. It's not a problem with the Zero, an alternative soundcard should alleviate this problem, though there may be updated or tweaked drivers...

 Just a quick update on my Zero. I've pulled the board and reflowed the receiver and DAC ICs. No difference.

 I might just grab one of these to replace it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 

I've salivated over that one myself. If you leave us for another DAC thread, you need to post a parting recview of the new DAC


----------



## randomasdf

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LC = Lawrence aka biglawhk @ eBay_

 

ah, thanks
 did'nt see those parts on his listings ( http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/biglaw...Q_fromZQQ_mdoZ ?) so I didn't know who it was =x


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *randomasdf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ah, thanks
 did'nt see those parts on his listings ( eBay Seller: biglawhk: Electronics, Computers Networking items on eBay.com ?) so I didn't know who it was =x_

 

Since that Gentleman was so "NICE" to help you find LC, you should read this thread from about Post 500 on, before you spend your money.

 I can't believe anyone who has been on this thread would facilitate this guy doing business.


----------



## randomasdf

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Since that Gentleman was so "NICE" to help you find LC, you should read this thread from about Post 500 on, before you spend your money.

 I can't believe anyone who has been on this thread would facilitate this guy doing business._

 

yeah, I've heard he hasn't been doing delivering parts such as the chips for the headphone amp, but I don't know where else to get the ALPS pot =\


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Since that Gentleman was so "NICE" to help you find LC, you should read this thread from about Post 500 on, before you spend your money.

 I can't believe anyone who has been on this thread would facilitate this guy doing business._

 

Your out of line. I have alerted about LC woes many times, even when you where not a member here, I have been quite clear on my opinion about his way of doing business, this however does not preclude me from clearing a doubt a member had, if anything with the added info he can search here and find out about the woes (read above, he does already), one should never buy without some research, knowing LC is Lawrence only helps connect the dots. One cannot explain everything every time.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *randomasdf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yeah, I've heard he hasn't been doing delivering parts such as the chips for the headphone amp, but I don't know where else to get the ALPS pot =\_

 

That's what attracted me to him also. I bought mine from him and had Zero issues. But there's enough bad stuff to suggest if there is an issue, he writes you off. It is also obvious that a number of issues of QC were caused by him directly because of the "Upgrades" he does that were performed by "Untrained" monkeys. AudioPhewl was given the long hard one by LC. The burnt Sennheiser thread is an interesting read also. I went out and bought some cheap test phones after reading that thread.

 He gets those POTs from somebody. We just need to find out a source for them. I posted a link that shows an identical looking POT but Peete said it was a knockoff.


----------



## randomasdf

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your out of line. I have alerted about LC woes many times, even when you where not a member here, I have been quite clear on my opinion about his way of doing business, this however does not preclude me from clearing a doubt a member had, if anything with the added info he can search here and find out about the woes (read above, he does already), one should never buy without some research, knowing LC is Lawrence only helps connect the dots. One cannot explain everything every time._

 

Adding on to this, I previously posted in this thread a couple (hundred?) pages back asking for where I could buy the ALPS and he did mention lawrence, but it was quite clear, at least to me, that his service was not the best. As a result, I haven't yet bought the alps because of fear, and also the somewhat steep price =x
 DaMnEd was also nice to correct my on my false accusation of wsz0304, who had spectacular customer service and shipping.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's what attracted me to him also. I bought mine from him and had Zero issues. But there's enough bad stuff to suggest if there is an issue, he writes you off. It is also obvious that a number of issues of QC were caused by him directly because of the "Upgrades" he does that were performed by "Untrained" monkeys. AudioPhewl was given the long hard one by LC. The burnt Sennheiser thread is an interesting read also. I went out and bought some cheap test phones after reading that thread.

 He gets those POTs from somebody. We just need to find out a source for them. I posted a link that shows an identical looking POT but Peete said it was a knockoff._

 

Same here =\
 I've heard that there are similar pots you can find easily off ebay, but have a blue casing you have to deal with.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your out of line. I have alerted about LC woes many times, even when you where not a member here, I have been quite clear on my opinion about his way of doing business, this however does not preclude me from clearing a doubt a member had, if anything with the added info he can search here and find out about the woes (read above, he does already), one should never buy without some research, knowing LC is Lawrence only helps connect the dots. One cannot explain everything every time._

 

Mehh, I been outa line before.

 The problem is that when you post like you did, and someone who has read pages 1-100 here and maybe skips to the end, and then reads your post out of context from the nearly 900 posts here, a mistake can be made. That person may look up LC, and buy one. You can only search about woes if you know about woes. And the search engine/function here ain't real efficient. Every Zero buyer out there is not going to read almost 900 pages and nearly 10,000 posts before they buy one. 

 I read about 450-500 pages. I then purchased from LC(because of the ALPs POT) and over the next day or so, I read the next 250 pages to catch up to page 750 at that time. In the last 100-150 pages, I learned about the LC issues and prayed I wouldn't have them. I didn't. The point of my post was, if you mention LC for whatever reason, it would be fair of you to mention buyer beware in every thread you mention him. A lot of people are going to come to this thread and read the first few pages and skip to the end. Just the way the world is. They see you post in isolation and think it's an endorsement.

 I'll repeat what I said before. I find it hard to believe anyone here is still trying to facilitate this guy doing business with members here.

 If you wanted to help a lot, you help find some ALPs pots so nobody would be tempted to buy from him. That's what I have done.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *randomasdf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Adding on to this, I previously posted in this thread a couple (hundred?) pages back asking for where I could buy the ALPS and he did mention lawrence, but it was quite clear, at least to me, that his service was not the best. As a result, I haven't yet bought the alps because of fear, and also the somewhat steep price =x
 DaMnEd was also nice to correct my on my false accusation of wsz0304, who had spectacular customer service and shipping.


 Same here =\
 I've heard that there are similar pots you can find easily off ebay, but have a blue casing you have to deal with._

 

I've heard the Blue ALPs are not the same POTs and won't work without the blue casing.


----------



## randomasdf

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've heard the Blue ALPs are not the same POTs and won't work without the blue casing._

 

hmm =|
 still not many other choices then, I guess..


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mehh, I been outa line before.

 The problem is that when you post like you did, and someone who has read pages 1-100 here and maybe skips to the end, and then reads your post out of context from the nearly 900 posts here, a mistake can be made. That person may look up LC, and buy one. You can only search about woes if you know about woes. And the search engine/function here ain't real efficient. Every Zero buyer out there is not going to read almost 900 pages and nearly 10,000 posts before they buy one. 

 I read about 450-500 pages. I then purchased from LC(because of the ALPs POT) and over the next day or so, I read the next 250 pages to catch up to page 750 at that time. In the last 100-150 pages, I learned about the LC issues and prayed I wouldn't have them. I didn't. The point of my post was, if you mention LC for whatever reason, it would be fair of you to mention buyer beware in every thread you mention him. A lot of people are going to come to this thread and read the first few pages and skip to the end. Just the way the world is. They see you post in isolation and think it's an endorsement.

 I'll repeat what I said before. I find it hard to believe anyone here is still trying to facilitate this guy doing business with members here.

 If you wanted to help a lot, you help find some ALPs pots so nobody would be tempted to buy from him. That's what I have done._

 

Forums are not ideal to store info, they where created for ongoing discussions, and you end up having to repeat yourself on and on again in situations like this one, same questions, same answers, even with search it is difficult to manage. The only way to grantee some soft of up-to-date info for most users, new and old, would be to keep the first post updated, this has not been done for a while, specially regarding the new info (LC woes, new options like HDAMs, etc).

 The first post should at the very least (imho) link to Currawong's blog about the ZERO, it is the most comprehensive info about this unit that's available, and it is up-to-date for now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 You do what you chose to do to "help a lot", I have my own way, thank you.


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

The changeable figure forms into the consistent beautiful.

Is the share wedding better than the week?


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've salivated over that one myself. If you leave us for another DAC thread, you need to post a parting recview of the new DAC _

 

Will do 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Need to work out some finances first though, need to spend a bit of money on my car over the next month or so. Don't really want to stick with the AV710 for that long, but I guess we'll see how things pan out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Oooohhh.... Cambridge Audio have released a new DAC recently - the DacMagic...

http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/assets...CMagic2_A5.pdf

 £200, and available locally. Everything seems very positive from looking around online - that's really not much more than I'd be paying for another Zero, SVDAC05, Beresford, etc... plus there'd be no worries regarding shipping, or warranty claims, or customs charges... Plus, it's got XLR outputs, which should be good with my Stax stuff 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 With the weak pound to dollar rate at the moment(the Zero now costs ~£120 delivered, whereas a few months back, it was less than £90), this is quite appealing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Ben Diss

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your soundcard is disabling the digital signal when no sound is being produced. It's not a problem with the Zero, an alternative soundcard should alleviate this problem, though there may be updated or tweaked drivers...

 Just a quick update on my Zero. I've pulled the board and reflowed the receiver and DAC ICs. No difference.

 I might just grab one of these to replace it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 

I'd love to see a review of this DAC. I just picked up a Great March II and it comes very, very close to my Lavry in performance. I wonder if this would be in that same league?


----------



## ads2

Hello,
 where can I found nice (and afordable) feets for replacing the Zeo ones ?
 Thanks


----------



## ads2

zero ones sorry..


----------



## jujulio

tu cherches....des pieds pour le zero? Ou bien ta question est différente?


----------



## ads2

Yep !
 oui c'est ça..qq chose de plus esthetique...

 something more nice, like golden feets...


----------



## Currawong

ads2: A hardware store? Maybe hobby shops or hardware stores would have stick-on rubber feet for putting on the bottom of things to stop them scratching tables and floors.


----------



## ads2

I need something like this but on a web shop..

Options - Divers - Pied pour appareil en plastique doré 45mm


----------



## sandchak

Hi Curra, 
 I know you are one of the admirers of Moon HDAM, I received them today morning from kingwa, and the first thing I realized (very easily noticible)how easily I could crank up the volume against the opa627s, the whole thing sounds more musical than before and unlike 0pa627s its less fatiguing and more laid back, without losing the dynamics.. difficult to explain - I love it..
 Btw, I also replaced the stock zero optical cables with some decent canare coax and upgraded the stock rca with CMC (all from from kingwa).
 he is extremely good to deal with, infact he sent me the Moon with a 20cm earth lead so that I could easily ground it at the RCA earthing..
 Well, Thank you for your recommendations on the MOON and Kingwa, I think I'll be getting the headphone amp from him too..
 Btw, can you let me know, how long it takes for the MOON to burn in and sing to its full potential??..
 Thanks again..


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ads2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I need something like this but on a web shop..

Options - Divers - Pied pour appareil en plastique doré 45mm_

 

Those look really nice.. well, someone help me too, if they come across a good chassis for the Zeros.. please...let me know..


----------



## jujulio

All i can see is rubber feet like those RP Electronics - Test Instruments , Power Supplies , Inverters , Electronic Project Kits and more!

 but nothing fancy like you asked

 edit: found these ones too, a bit more elegant http://www.surplussales.com/rubber-p...ecialties.html


----------



## jujulio

there are specially designed feet like this SOUNDCARE ** MERCUR ** AUDIO ISOLATION FEET CONES - eBay 2-Channel, Power Amplifiers, Amplifiers, Home Audio, Electronics. (Eindtijd 16-dec-08 14:28:46 CET) but as you can see it gets really expensive :s it was meant for hi-fi racks i think


----------



## jujulio

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...213d912924b09f there are golden ones there, 4,5 cm diameter, 1cm height, should be good for you


----------



## randomasdf

just curious, noob question, but how much do feet really alter the sound?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *randomasdf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_just curious, noob question, but how much do feet really alter the sound?_

 

Depends on the feet of course.
 See-- TipToes and Sorbothane


----------



## jujulio

sandchack, maybe you should try this ebay store (don't know about zero's measurements ) eBay Store - DIY Gene: Chassis Case: Hi Fi DIY Audio headphone chassis case D-Head


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *randomasdf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_just curious, noob question, but how much do feet really alter the sound?_

 

Look at the thread title. Somewhere between "Review:" and "24"... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ~Phewl.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Look at the thread title. Somewhere between "Review:" and "24"... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl._

 

Well I've read somewhere on the internetz that vibrations can affect the clock (crystal?) in a dac which can cause unwanted noise. Special feet are mostly use with speakes (which causes lot's of vibrations) though I think.


----------



## ads2

Merci Jujulio for your links !


----------



## ads2

Hi thee :
 I finally received my HDAM and ALPS Pot from LC yersterday . (I didn't received it with my zero (partially modded).
 The OPA leed is badly soldered on some pins, will have to resolder it.

 I wonder one thing.
 There is multiple HDAM (moon, eath, etc..).
 How can I know wich one it is, there is no inscription on it...
 where can I find a picture showing where you fix the hdam in the zero case (not the pins connexion, but the HDAM itself to avoid it moving in the case...).
 thanks


----------



## AudioPhewl

^AFAIK, Lawrence only ships the Earth HDAM.

 Most people tend to fit the HDAM to the space between the DAC PCB and the headphone amplifier PCB. There are quite a few images scattered in this thread detailing this, as well as methods of electrical insualtion 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I've read somewhere on the internetz that vibrations can affect the clock (crystal?) in a dac which can cause unwanted noise. Special feet are mostly use with speakes (which causes lot's of vibrations) though I think._

 

There are a billion and one things on the internet. Given the number of people who have had vibrating transformers in their Zero, with no adverse effect on actual sound quality, I think you'll be alright with the standard feet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Speakers tend to use spikes, so they can sink into the base of the carpet.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## ads2

Quote:


 There are quite a few images scattered in this thread detailing this, as well as methods of electrical insualtion 
 

I know but browing the 834 pages of this thread will take me some days 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 There is something strange on my LC HDAM, the 3 hdams have a white wire on them (like an antena). I don't see this on my HDAM
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Wonder if this not a fake HDAM....


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ads2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know but browing the 834 pages of this thread will take me some days 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There is something strange on my LC HDAM, the 3 hdams have a white wire on them (like an antena). I don't see this on my HDAM
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Wonder if this not a fake HDAM...._

 

The HDAM LC sells is different, that much we know, its not a matter of being fake, just a somewhat different design (comparing to Audio-GD HDAMs) with no ground leg.


----------



## ads2

browsing..sorry


----------



## ads2

ok, so the white wire is a ground wire.
 And it sounds similar ?
 If one day I want to replace it with something better, wich one should I oder from Audio-GD ?
 Obrigado Damned


----------



## ads2

Another stupid question :
 How to burn a Zero / HDAM ?
 I know that you have to use it for many hours.
 But can I burn it without headphone plugged (for the headphone part) and without amplifier connected for the HDAM part ?
 in this case I can let it "running", witout annoying my wife...


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ads2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ok, so the white wire is a ground wire.
 And it sounds similar ?
 If one day I want to replace it with something better, wich one should I oder from Audio-GD ?
 Obrigado Damned_

 

Regarding the ground connection, I have done some testing on this, posted the results here: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/zer...69/index8.html (Last post on the page and next page).

 Basically connecting the ground leg clears the stereo crosstalk, these tests where done with Audio-GD HDAMs, but since your HDAM is different, it is possible that your version would not benefit from it, and so it does not have one (ground leg).

 From past reviews LCs HDAM is pretty much equal sounding comparing to Audio-GDs Earth module.

 If you want better, some say the new OPA-MOON is everything the Earth is and with better sound stage, I have not tested this personally, you can read a reviews here: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/opa...highlight=moon

 Sem problema


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Curra, 
 I know you are one of the admirers of Moon HDAM, I received them today morning from kingwa, and the first thing I realized (very easily noticible)how easily I could crank up the volume against the opa627s, the whole thing sounds more musical than before and unlike 0pa627s its less fatiguing and more laid back, without losing the dynamics.. difficult to explain - I love it..
 Btw, I also replaced the stock zero optical cables with some decent canare coax and upgraded the stock rca with CMC (all from from kingwa).
 he is extremely good to deal with, infact he sent me the Moon with a 20cm earth lead so that I could easily ground it at the RCA earthing..
 Well, Thank you for your recommendations on the MOON and Kingwa, I think I'll be getting the headphone amp from him too..
 Btw, can you let me know, how long it takes for the MOON to burn in and sing to its full potential??..
 Thanks again.._

 

Glad to hear you like it. As for burn-in, when the Burson HDAM was suggested as a possible upgrade, it didn't have the two extra external caps on the outside. After some experimentation was done with them by Pricklely Pete based on the Burson HDAM page, Audio-gd (who by that time was supplying many of us with them) started making them with the extra caps. Penchum and PP reckoned that the caps don't settle down fully for 350 hours. I wouldn't worry about burn-in so much though, just enjoy listening. If you notice an improvement, then that's good. I found my C2C from Audio-gd almost suddenly improved one week recently, likely past the 300-hour mark, though I haven't been counting.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *randomasdf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_just curious, noob question, but how much do feet really alter the sound?_

 

I wouldn't worry about it on a $99 DAC. I'd be asking that question if I'd just bought a $10k DAC.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ads2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi thee :
 I finally received my HDAM and ALPS Pot from LC yersterday . (I didn't received it with my zero (partially modded).
 The OPA leed is badly soldered on some pins, will have to resolder it.

 I wonder one thing.
 There is multiple HDAM (moon, eath, etc..).
 How can I know wich one it is, there is no inscription on it...
 where can I find a picture showing where you fix the hdam in the zero case (not the pins connexion, but the HDAM itself to avoid it moving in the case...).
 thanks_

 

Earth, Sun and Moon (latest versions):






 How I installed the Earth (old version btw) -- slightly jammed between one of the sockets and the case at the rear, with the ground wire soldered on to the RCA ground:


----------



## ads2

Thanks Damned


----------



## ads2

Thanks Currawong for your reply and pictures.
 LC HDAM is definitivelly different..and has no ground wire.
 One thing, you have just put you hdam on a paper to isolate it from the main PCB. Aren't you afraid that if you move you zero, the HDAM may be in contact with the main PCB due to the fact that you hav't fixed it ?


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ads2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Currawong for your reply and pictures.
 LC HDAM is definitivelly different..and has no ground wire.
 One thing, you have just put you hdam on a paper to isolate it from the main PCB. Aren't you afraid that if you move you zero, the HDAM may be in contact with the main PCB due to the fact that you hav't fixed it ?_

 

In that picture, it's slightly jammed between the casing and a socket. I used to have it sit between the DAC and HP amp boards. With the ground wire attached to something, the HDAM doesn't have far to move with the top casing on. I had no trouble turning the Zero on its side to remove screws. Someone else though put electrical tape around their HDAM to avoid any problems.


----------



## ads2

I see.
 Thanks Currawong


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Glad to hear you like it. As for burn-in, when the Burson HDAM was suggested as a possible upgrade, it didn't have the two extra external caps on the outside. After some experimentation was done with them by Pricklely Pete based on the Burson HDAM page, Audio-gd (who by that time was supplying many of us with them) started making them with the extra caps. Penchum and PP reckoned that the caps don't settle down fully for 350 hours. I wouldn't worry about burn-in so much though, just enjoy listening. If you notice an improvement, then that's good. I found my C2C from Audio-gd almost suddenly improved one week recently, likely past the 300-hour mark, though I haven't been counting.

 How I installed the Earth (old version btw) -- slightly jammed between one of the sockets and the case at the rear, with the ground wire soldered on to the RCA ground:




_

 

Yeah, thats what Kingwa wrote back and said too, kind of stages post 24 - post 100 and ultimately 300hrs the Moon would full bloom..

 Actually, if one requests, like I did, he sent me the Moon with a 20cm earth wire, which makes it easier to earth on the RCA ground..

 Thanks again.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jujulio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sandchack, maybe you should try this ebay store (don't know about zero's measurements ) eBay Store - DIY Gene: Chassis Case: Hi Fi DIY Audio headphone chassis case D-Head_

 

Thanks for that link, he just wrote back and says he might just have one that would fit the zero perfectly.. although I know its a little overdo..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ads2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi thee :
 I finally received my HDAM and ALPS Pot from LC yersterday . (I didn't received it with my zero (partially modded).
 The OPA leed is badly soldered on some pins, will have to resolder it.

 I wonder one thing.
 There is multiple HDAM (moon, eath, etc..).
 How can I know wich one it is, there is no inscription on it...
 where can I find a picture showing where you fix the hdam in the zero case (not the pins connexion, but the HDAM itself to avoid it moving in the case...).
 thanks_

 

Hi,
 This is how LC fastens the HDAM. He uses Double sided, padded tape.

http://www.turbonet.biz/misc/Zero/HDSM.JPG


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ads2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Another stupid question :
 How to burn a Zero / HDAM ?
 I know that you have to use it for many hours.
 But can I burn it without headphone plugged (for the headphone part) and without amplifier connected for the HDAM part ?
 in this case I can let it "running", witout annoying my wife..._

 

Hi,
 I use real music during the day when nobody is home. I use a really obnoxious base test CD I found in a torrent. Figured I would drain and refill those CAPs a lot! Then in the evening when everyone is home, I use Pink noise till the next day. The pink noise is not as bothersome. You get 168 hours burn-in in a week.

 Here is a nice free app for Burn in that does white noise, pink noise, Frequency sweeps, etc. This is a good candidate for Penchum's 1st post in my humble opinion.

Burn-in wave files: white noise, pink noise, frequency sweep, channel mix

 Les


----------



## ads2

Thanks Les,
 your lead is better made than mine, I have only the yellow part on one side...and this side is not well soldered...


----------



## jujulio

I guess it has been answered before, but how hard is the hdam mod to make (given that i have almost zero experience with soldering). I didn't purchase the zero already, i thought i would get it from this seller:ZERO 24/192 DAC DA CONVERTOR, HEAD AMP(Upgrade Version) - eBay (item 110292715594 end time Dec-23-08 09:32:06 PST)

 for 178 dollars with shipping...am i better off purchasing a hdam modded version from lawrence? (btw the seller told me this version got the universal switch for 110 220 v)


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jujulio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I guess it has been answered before, but how hard is the hdam mod to make (given that i have almost zero experience with soldering). I didn't purchase the zero already, i thought i would get it from this seller:ZERO 24/192 DAC DA CONVERTOR, HEAD AMP(Upgrade Version) - eBay (item 110292715594 end time Dec-23-08 09:32:06 PST)

 for 178 dollars with shipping...am i better off purchasing a hdam modded version from lawrence? (btw the seller told me this version got the universal switch for 110 220 v)_

 

Not hard at all, and no soldering required. You just remove one opamp and connect the HDAM, 5 min job.

 Read: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/blogs/...amplifier.html


----------



## raekwonse

Has anyone upgraded the stock power cable on the Zero? Is it even worth it for a budget DAC?


----------



## jujulio

thanks for the link damned


----------



## aryastark90

hi I been thinking about getting a zero dac but I have some questions. right now I use k701 and d2000 headphones with a headsix amp and source is ipod lod, and laptop all lossless audio files. will the zero dac make a big enough difference in sound quality with those headphones when hooked to an ipod lod as source.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Zero needs a digital input. Does the "ipod lod" provide this?

 ~Phewl.


----------



## bundee1

I don't mean to keep touting this guy but WSZ0304 has taken good care of me and a lot of other guys here on the forum. His QC is very good and when something goes wrong he takes care of his customers. Even though he doesn't have to he is helping me with my blown mod operation. He's been very reliable so far.


----------



## No Smoking

After eyeing the Zero and posting here on numerous occasions I have decided to finally bite the bullet and buy the zero, however I've just got a few questions that still need to be answered. 
 My current Amp has a "pop" or power surge when turned on does the zero have similar issues?
 Also currently my amp is way too loud even on low settings so I only output at around 50% from my computer however due to the zero being digital only the volume control from my computer won't effect the output of the zero in anyway? So my question is how sensitive is the volume control on the zero and is there anything that can be done to reduce the volume output of the zero besides upgrading the volume pot?


----------



## kiljim

Hi guys, need some help troubleshooting a Zero I just bought from a fellow head-fier

 Currently my setup is: PC --> USB to Optical converter --> Zero optical input
 The Zero turns on fine, but I can't get any sound from the headphone output

 When I turn it on, there's a click and it defaults to optical input
 Optical converter seems to be working, the optical cable emits a red light when something's playing (though as powertoold pointed out, the cable could still be faulty?)
 LED on the DAC board labeled R-LED3 in between the coax and optical jacks doesn't light up at all
 The LED on the left side of the board, near the power jack is on all the time 

 Details of the ZERO: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f42/so...n-hdam-387511/

 Any idea what could be the problem?
 Or anything I could do to test (don't have any other source with optical/coax output though)

 Thanks in advance!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't mean to keep touting this guy but WSZ0304 has taken good care of me and a lot of other guys here on the forum. His QC is very good and when something goes wrong he takes care of his customers. Even though he doesn't have to he is helping me with my blown mod operation. He's been very reliable so far._

 

Hi,
 Exactly, I bought my Yulong DAH1 from them and would have purchased my DV 337SE from them if they could have made the price. VERY good service, too bad they haven't got into the HDAM/ALPs mod market. The main thing is they don't run away from a problem. If I see a vendor write off somebody, that's it, "no soup for you"!


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

What if the craven tooth ate the family?

Did the triangular consideration really join the leave?


----------



## powertoold

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kiljim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys, need some help troubleshooting a Zero I just bought from a fellow head-fier

 Currently my setup is: PC --> USB to Optical converter --> Zero optical input
 The Zero turns on fine, but I can't get any sound from the headphone output

 When I turn it on, there's a click and it defaults to optical input
 Optical converter seems to be working, the optical cable emits a red light when something's playing (though as powertoold pointed out, the cable could still be faulty?)
 LED on the DAC board labeled R-LED3 doesn't light up at all

 Details of the ZERO: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f42/so...n-hdam-387511/

 Any idea what could be the problem?
 Or anything I could do to test (don't have any other source with optical/coax output though)

 Thanks in advance!_

 

Hello, would anyone please help us out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I am at a loss as to what could be wrong. I am fairly sure the R-LED3 on the DAC board should be on, regardless of signal:

  Quote:


 LED on the DAC board labeled R-LED3 doesn't light up at all 
 

If it is supposed to be on regardless of signal from the optical, then I suspect something in the path was shorted out and damaged. 

 Would anyone confirm that the R-LED3 is always on?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kiljim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys, need some help troubleshooting a Zero I just bought from a fellow head-fier

 Currently my setup is: PC --> USB to Optical converter --> Zero optical input
 The Zero turns on fine, but I can't get any sound from the headphone output

 When I turn it on, there's a click and it defaults to optical input
 Optical converter seems to be working, the optical cable emits a red light when something's playing (though as powertoold pointed out, the cable could still be faulty?)
 LED on the DAC board labeled R-LED3 in between the coax and optical jacks doesn't light up at all
 The LED on the left side of the board, near the power jack is on all the time 

 Details of the ZERO: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f42/so...n-hdam-387511/

 Any idea what could be the problem?
 Or anything I could do to test (don't have any other source with optical/coax output though)

 Thanks in advance!_

 


 Tough to say for sure but that LED is the "digital lock" meaning when the unit receives a data stream that it can process it will light up.

 Can you outline your entire signal chain please (cabling, settings on the computer etc) from source to headphones.

 You are not getting a signal lock...that could be any number of things...I'm willing to bet it's something simple that was overlooked rather than actual damage or malfunction of the Zero.

 If you have another source that has COAX/Optical outs (like a DVD player) try that using both inputs types to establish functionality of the Zero without the USB to SPDIF adapter in the loop. Try different cables if you can.

 The cable you are using, the settings in your source (if it's a computer) ....they need to be checked out one by one.

 Give me your system setup info and we'll go from there.

 Peete.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *powertoold* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello, would anyone please help us out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am at a loss as to what could be wrong. I am fairly sure the R-LED3 on the DAC board should be on, regardless of signal:



 If it is supposed to be on regardless of signal from the optical, then I suspect something in the path was shorted out and damaged. 

 Would anyone confirm that the R-LED3 is always on?_

 

The R-LED3 between the coax and optical cable ONLY comes on with signal passing through, It does not stay ON otherwise.
 (Just checked physically with my Zero)

 oops, please overlook my post - you have the best help available in Peete !


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Powertoold I notice you said in your for sale post you performed a mod on the Zero...what was it ? 

 Peete.


----------



## powertoold

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tough to say for sure but that LED is the "digital lock" meaning when the unit receives a data stream that it can process it will light up.

 Can you outline your entire signal chain please (cabling, settings on the computer etc) from source to headphones.

 You are not getting a signal lock...that could be any number of things...I'm willing to bet it's something simple that was overlooked rather than actual damage or malfunction of the Zero.

 If you have another source that has COAX/Optical outs (like a DVD player) try that using both inputs types to establish functionality of the Zero without the USB to SPDIF adapter in the loop. Try different cables if you can.

 The cable you are using, the settings in your source (if it's a computer) ....they need to be checked out one by one.

 Give me your system setup info and we'll go from there.

 Peete._

 

Hey PP,

 Thanks for your input. I also think there is something wrong with the signal. Unfortunately, kiljim does not have anything else that sends an optical signal or coaxial signal. Further, I thought it's possible that the optical cable is broken. Although kiljim noted that he sees a light at the end of the optical cable, it can still be broken since a distortion in the cable will still provide light, but the Zero will not sense the signal because the cable can't send proper information. Kiljim also does not have an extra optical cable to try out.

 As for the audio chain, it would be Kiljim's computer -> USB to optical converter -> optical cable -> Zero. There are still a lot of variables that haven't been accounted for:

 1) I don't think Kiljim has tried another computer
 2) There's no coaxial source to try
 3) There's no extra optical cable or source

 At this point, it's difficult to isolate the faulty component without trying different components in the chain. I recommended that Kiljim use foobar, but I don't know if he's tried it. However, he does get optical light to come out of the converter, so that must mean the computer is trying to send music.

 The only "mods" I did to my Zero were removing the tiny circular capacitors next to the RCA output and headphone outputs as explained in currawong's guide. I did this when I first received my Zero, and I was using my Zero up until the night I shipped it to Kiljim.

 I think Kiljim can further explain the RLEDs. I'm not too sure which needs to be on.


----------



## goorackerelite

I have the OPA267s in my Zero, I heard it dosn't sound good with tube amps. is that true?


----------



## les_garten

I had a similiar problem when i first got my Zero. Being a pure Geek, I often only install drivers and not software that comes with the sound card. Everything appears like it should work, but nothing out of the Zero. The red light showing digital was not lighting up on the DAC board. Didn't know it at the time though. I installed the software from the Card manufacturer and everything worked immediately. Just my experience, YMMV. I had the most up to date drivers, but wasn't using the Software and the card wasn't putting anything out SPDIF.

 Might want to uninstall and reinstall software.


----------



## kiljim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tough to say for sure but that LED is the "digital lock" meaning when the unit receives a data stream that it can process it will light up.

 Can you outline your entire signal chain please (cabling, settings on the computer etc) from source to headphones.

 You are not getting a signal lock...that could be any number of things...I'm willing to bet it's something simple that was overlooked rather than actual damage or malfunction of the Zero.

 If you have another source that has COAX/Optical outs (like a DVD player) try that using both inputs types to establish functionality of the Zero without the USB to SPDIF adapter in the loop. Try different cables if you can.

 The cable you are using, the settings in your source (if it's a computer) ....they need to be checked out one by one.

 Give me your system setup info and we'll go from there.

 Peete._

 

I'm using Foobar and manually selecting the USB device 
 Other than that it's pretty standard stuff, connected via USB cable to the converter, connected to the Zero via optical cable (USB cable was the one given with the converter, optical cable given with the Zero)
 Plugged in my Denon D2000 directly to the headphone out on the Zero

 When i play something on Foobar, the cable does emit a red light, if that helps rule anything out

 I'll have to check if the cd player here has an optical out, unfortunately I don't have much stuff to test with (living in a dorm, agrh)


----------



## kiljim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had a similiar problem when i first got my Zero. Being a pure Geek, I often only install drivers and not software that comes with the sound card. Everything appears like it should work, but nothing out of the Zero. The red light showing digital was not lighting up on the DAC board. Didn't know it at the time though. I installed the software from the Card manufacturer and everything worked immediately. Just my experience, YMMV. I had the most up to date drivers, but wasn't using the Software and the card wasn't putting anything out SPDIF.

 Might want to uninstall and reinstall software._

 

I'm using a USB converter, so it shouldn't pass through the sound card
 No drivers to install either


----------



## aryastark90

I am new to dacs. I would like to get a zero dac but I have another question first. The laptop I use does not have a spdif connection. I will need to use a usb to spdif converter. Theirs so many to choose from, which is currently the best under $50 that does not degrade sound quality? is the PCM2906 converter I see on ebay the one most used by people here, or is it the xitel one that comes with the zero? would it be better to forget the converter and get a creative express card sound blaster x-fi or creative usb sound blaster and hook the zero spdif to that.
 Thanks for the help.


----------



## Ben Diss

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aryastark90* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am new to dacs. I would like to get a zero dac but I have another question first. The laptop I use does not have a spdif connection. I will need to use a usb to spdif converter. Theirs so many to choose from, which is currently the best under $50 that does not degrade sound quality? is the PCM2906 converter I see on ebay the one most used by people here, or is it the xitel one that comes with the zero? would it be better to forget the converter and get a creative express card sound blaster x-fi or creative usb sound blaster and hook the zero spdif to that.
 Thanks for the help._

 

The Xitel that comes with it is pretty weak. I wouldn't recommend it.


----------



## ads2

Thanks Les for the burning link.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With the ZERO as an entry level DAC, how does it compare to the likes of other DACs that exist out there? I know that this ZERO offers a lot of bang for the buck, especially with the mods, but what exactly is a quality DAC?

 I mean.. how difficult is it to convert digital to analog? What kind of permutations/deviations exist? and does the ZERO do a good job of this? There's so many pages here, so there must be something worthy about this little box right?_

 

Check my sig. I preferred it to the Apogee Duet, which while $499, is both a DA and AD converter for audio recording and playback.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *goorackerelite* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have the OPA267s in my Zero, I heard it dosn't sound good with tube amps. is that true?_

 

Have you got a tube amp? Why not try it? If you use it with a tube amp and find it a little dull, try the cap-snip mod (see the guide linked in my signature) as that opens up the top end considerably.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aryastark90* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am new to dacs. I would like to get a zero dac but I have another question first. The laptop I use does not have a spdif connection. I will need to use a usb to spdif converter. Theirs so many to choose from, which is currently the best under $50 that does not degrade sound quality? is the PCM2906 converter I see on ebay the one most used by people here, or is it the xitel one that comes with the zero? would it be better to forget the converter and get a creative express card sound blaster x-fi or creative usb sound blaster and hook the zero spdif to that.
 Thanks for the help._

 

At least one the eBay sellers offers a USB converter as part of the package, so you don't have to worry about it if you buy from them.


----------



## BigTony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kiljim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm using a USB converter, so it shouldn't pass through the sound card
 No drivers to install either_

 

This might sound silly, but I didn't spot it right away.
 When you turn the amp on, you select the optical on the front, and then select the headphone out on the front? I missed that when I first had the amp (used it as a DAC mainly) and I still think it pretty odd to have to select the headamp.


----------



## kiljim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This might sound silly, but I didn't spot it right away.
 When you turn the amp on, you select the optical on the front, and then select the headphone out on the front? I missed that when I first had the amp (used it as a DAC mainly) and I still think it pretty odd to have to select the headamp._

 

Yupp, have tried with the Preamp button on and off
 Tried pretty much any combination of the 3 buttons in front actually


----------



## fdbf

OH MY GOD!!!

 I have done the snipping cap mod and highs on music are now present more nitidely on my sennheiser hd600. 

 and, what is astonishing...

 HISSS are vanished.

 I don't know how this is possible, but i got hiss from 9 o clock on volume pot, and now there's only pure silence till 12 o'clock, and from this point hiss are much less loud than before.

 EXCELLENT MOD FOR THIS HEADPHONES.

 Thanks to you all guys again.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ads2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Les for the burning link._

 

à votre service!


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bundee1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't mean to keep touting this guy but WSZ0304 has taken good care of me and a lot of other guys here on the forum. His QC is very good and when something goes wrong he takes care of his customers. Even though he doesn't have to he is helping me with my blown mod operation. He's been very reliable so far._

 

I back this statement. He sent me two SVDAC05's which were damaged in transit, so then sent me a Zero for free


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I back this statement. He sent me two SVDAC05's which were damaged in transit, so then sent me a Zero for free_

 

Hey decayed.cell - read your thread - glad it worked out in the end. There are, of course, risks with ordering things from overseas, but it's great to hear when the seller makes it right. And not to jump on the pile but I too would love to hear your thoughts on the SVDAC vs. the Zero.


----------



## Kurotetsu

Question. 

 I'm finally getting around to ordering the free samples from Linear Tech. I've selected the LT1364. When I get to the Order Samples screen, it gives me three options (2 x SO packages and 1 x PDIP package), and I want to make sure I'm ordering the right one.

 LT1364CN8#PBF Dual 6mA 70MHz 1000V/uSec OA PDIP
 LT1364CS8 Dual 6mA 70MHz 1000V/uSec OA SO
 LT1364CS8#PBF Dual 6mA 70MHz 1000V/uSec OA SO

 Looking at the schematics for SO and PDIP, I should be getting the PDIP right? That looks like the version that fits in a swappable opamp socket. The SO version looks like it needs to be soldered...


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kurotetsu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Question. 

 I'm finally getting around to ordering the free samples from Linear Tech. I've selected the LT1364. When I get to the Order Samples screen, it gives me three options (2 x SO packages and 1 x PDIP package), and I want to make sure I'm ordering the right one.

 LT1364CN8#PBF Dual 6mA 70MHz 1000V/uSec OA PDIP
 LT1364CS8 Dual 6mA 70MHz 1000V/uSec OA SO
 LT1364CS8#PBF Dual 6mA 70MHz 1000V/uSec OA SO

 Looking at the schematics for SO and PDIP, I should be getting the PDIP right? That looks like the version that fits in a swappable opamp socket. The SO version looks like it needs to be soldered..._

 

Correct!

 LT1364CN8#PBF Dual 6mA 70MHz 1000V/uSec OA PDIP


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kiljim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm using Foobar and manually selecting the USB device 
 Other than that it's pretty standard stuff, connected via USB cable to the converter, connected to the Zero via optical cable (USB cable was the one given with the converter, optical cable given with the Zero)
 Plugged in my Denon D2000 directly to the headphone out on the Zero

 When i play something on Foobar, the cable does emit a red light, if that helps rule anything out

 I'll have to check if the cd player here has an optical out, unfortunately I don't have much stuff to test with (living in a dorm, agrh)_

 


 See what you can beg borrow or steal ( a source with COAX and or TOSlink out and both types of digital cable if possible) to help troubleshoot the issue your having. You won't be able to pinpoint the problem until you can test all the possibilities. 


 Peete.


----------



## hdlovar

Sorry if this has already been answered but how high of an impedance headphone can these things drive?

 Would it be crazy to think that a pair of 580's could be properly driven from these?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hdlovar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry if this has already been answered but how high of an impedance headphone can these things drive?

 Would it be crazy to think that a pair of 580's could be properly driven from these?_

 

Nope, not crazy at all hdlovar...many use HD600/650's ( I have 650's) with their Zeros. The HD580's are the same impedance (300 ohms) as the 6XX series.

 Peete.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hdlovar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry if this has already been answered but how high of an impedance headphone can these things drive?

 Would it be crazy to think that a pair of 580's could be properly driven from these?_

 

If you are from Georgia (the country).. You could borrow my Zero to see if it can drive the 580s before you pull the trigger !!


----------



## Currawong

I did some of my HDAM testing using HD650s with no issues.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nope, not crazy at all hdlovar...many use HD600/650's ( I have 650's) with their Zeros. The HD580's are the same impedance (300 ohms) as the 6XX series.

 Peete._

 

It also drives my 600ohm Senns plenty loud 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hdlovar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry if this has already been answered but how high of an impedance headphone can these things drive?

 Would it be crazy to think that a pair of 580's could be properly driven from these?_

 

Drives my HD650's well.


----------



## DaMnEd

I think some have a misconception of what "Driving" means, imho. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's not about volume. You can make a 300ohm headphone be plenty loud (even make you deaf) with the crappiest of amps or sound cards, this does not mean it drives the headphone well.

 Driving an headphone is more about control, performance, than it is about volume.

 More to the point, the ZERO amp section is mediocre, does the job but it's not particularly good at it.

 That said, the HD650 are not particularly difficult to drive, but they are one of the most scalable headphones I've heard, the better the amp the better it performs.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think some have a misconception of what "Driving" means, imho. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's not about volume. You can make a 300ohm headphone be plenty loud (even make you deaf) with the crappiest of amps or sound cards, this does not mean it drives the headphone well.

 Driving an headphone is more about control, performance, than it is about volume.

 More to the point, the ZERO amp section is mediocre, does the job but it's not particularly good at it.

 That said, the HD650 are not particularly difficult to drive, but they are one of the most scalable headphones I've heard, the better the amp the better it performs._

 


 Keeping in mind what DaMnEd just said, I thought the Zero drove the 701s too, till I heard it later through the PH100s, its not really about the volume, but the dynamic of the music - somehow there was a feeling that the 701s were choking the Zero, at the same time I feel the PH100 effortlessly handles whatever needs the 701s throw at it..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think some have a misconception of what "Driving" means, imho. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's not about volume. You can make a 300ohm headphone be plenty loud (even make you deaf) with the crappiest of amps or sound cards, this does not mean it drives the headphone well.

 Driving an headphone is more about control, performance, than it is about volume.

 More to the point, the ZERO amp section is mediocre, does the job but it's not particularly good at it.

 That said, the HD650 are not particularly difficult to drive, but they are one of the most scalable headphones I've heard, the better the amp the better it performs._

 

DITTO what He ^^^^ said. 

 my Senn HD650's sound great on the line out on my SC, they sound even better from the Zero and Yulong Head Amps, they sound BETTER from the LD MK V. I'm waiting on a DV 337SE, I'm sure they'll really sound even better.

 I had no issues with Volume on any of these.


----------



## hdlovar

Alright, just making sure before I took the plunge,

 My plan is to get the zero and if I ever do feel a need to go for a better amp just switch it over to a dedicated DAC.

 Thanks for the help guys


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hdlovar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Alright, just making sure before I took the plunge,

 My plan is to get the zero and if I ever do feel a need to go for a better amp just switch it over to a dedicated DAC.

 Thanks for the help guys 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Heh, be careful! It sounded so good, I had to find out how much better a dedicated amp wold be. Then I had to know what a different DAC would do. Then how abut a little better AMP. Hmmm, wonder what another amp and DAC might do?

 I say sell all your music, Ipods, Phones, everything...

 You're about to get hooked Bro', and this is way worse than bein' Hooked on Phonics!

 Just say NO!!!!


----------



## ScottieB

^ Sorry about your wallet.


----------



## jujulio

few, finally decided to buy a zero from lawrence with HDAM LT1364 and upgraded volume knob, as well as the franken mod kit from pistol pete, will let you know how it'll work out for me.
 my setup would be: my computer-audigy 2zs platinum pro-coax-ZERO-marantz 2225l-HD650 

 my question is, do you think it's worth for me to buy the little dot mkv to replace my marantz( i really like its 'loudness' fonction^^ make your headphone work a bit like a subwoofer, great for electro, trance etc...)? I never had the chance to try another amp so i really don't know what to expect


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jujulio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_few, finally decided to buy a zero from lawrence with HDAM LT1364 and upgraded volume knob, as well as the franken mod kit from pistol pete, will let you know how it'll work out for me.
 my setup would be: my computer-audigy 2zs platinum pro-coax-ZERO-marantz 2225l-HD650 

 my question is, do you think it's worth for me to buy the little dot mkv to replace my marantz( i really like its 'loudness' fonction^^ make your headphone work a bit like a subwoofer, great for electro, trance etc...)? I never had the chance to try another amp so i really don't know what to expect 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Get the LD MK V and Denon D5000 and you don't need the loudness button. I haven't seen one of those in decades!


----------



## jujulio

thanks, i am not among the people who only swear by oldies, it's just that i happened to get this receiver from my parents who don't use it anymore (instead they chose a crappy flat band and olufsen^^). From what i read oldies 'fillter' less the sound than nowadays hi-fi equipment...but i couldn't care less given my musical tastes, i guess it's rather for classical listener who want the best fidelity available


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey decayed.cell - read your thread - glad it worked out in the end. There are, of course, risks with ordering things from overseas, but it's great to hear when the seller makes it right. And not to jump on the pile but I too would love to hear your thoughts on the SVDAC vs. the Zero. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well I had bought the other one for my friend who is using the same headphones (JVC/Victor HP-M1000) as me, and the Zero ended up going for my other friend who also is using the same headphones. I didn't really get a chance to test and compare but I felt that at stock and out of the box they were pretty similar, although one of my friends commented that the bass was a touch more prominent with the Zero


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

Is the box animal better than the population?

The phobic class recognises into the romantic start.


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I know that some people put some OPA627 op-amps into their headamp portion of the Zero. However, the Ultra Micro Amp also has these OPA627... i know that the rest of the circuity might be more intricate in the UltraMicroAmp, but what part of that amp justifies that extra~500 dollar price tag?_

 

You keep asking the same question over and over again, I have tried to explain previously but here I go again.

 Design: Costs money to design, test, redesign, test, etc, designing with an emphasis on quality, like no caps in the Signal path, making you really take the time(and money) to do it right. (Something the ZERO amp did not benefit from, because the main function is the DAC not the "amp".)

 Build Quality: Costs money to ensure you have proper manufacturing and quality control. (Something the ZERO lacks)

 Quality components: Costs you money, period. (The ZERO lacks this, and to achieve full potential you have to heavily mod the unit)

 Then you have to take into account the purpose of both units, one is a dedicated amp, designed and tested to be this, and this alone. The other was created/designed with an emphasis on the DAC, and included an basic amp section meant as the first step and or something you can fall-back on when you have no proper amp.

 The ZERO is a great DAC with much potential even with simple mods like the HDAMs, specially for the price it costs, but if you discount the DAC, I think no one would pay what it costs for the amp, my Mini3 does a better job and it is a portable amp.

 The ZERO was designed to keep costs down, it is built by the thousands. 

 HeadRoom is a small company, probably it's sells are into the hundreds, and not as a batch order, but incrementally, this alone will make your stuff a lot more expensive.

 You can't beat the Chinese on numbers/cost of labour, the cost of doing business elsewhere (not counting India and other places of the sort) is so much greater.

 The ZERO manufacturer does not even have to take into account most of the units that go bad, most os us (non Asian) won't ever ship the unit back, that would cost almost what the unit costed in the first place, so... no warranty, again, costs down.

 And btw, I am NOT saying that for the money the HeadRoom costs you wont get a better dedicated amp, built in the EU or USA with proper QC/components/etc. I actually think you can, I just think you are way off when you keep comparing units based on opamps alone and take really nothing else into account.


----------



## RickEC

The snipping of the 22pf things at the RCA interface in Zero gives a very huge difference to the sound. It may bring the sound closer to what you like, or otherwise. In my case, I soldered them back, and gladfully returned to the sound that I love. In short, it gave more details, but not without expense in my case. The mid and bottom range became too thin. Then again, it is based on my setup and my taste. YMMV. But one thing for sure, the differences were there. It is worthwhile to try the mod. If you do not like it, you can solder them back anytime. You may just snip one leg instead of two for ease of reconnection. Just my little contribution to the knowledge-base here, pls don't flame me from any angle.


----------



## jujulio

Did you give enough time to the ZERO to mature its 'sound signature'? That may explain why you find the mid and bottom lacking


----------



## RickEC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jujulio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you give enough time to the ZERO to mature its 'sound signature'? That may explain why you find the mid and bottom lacking_

 

Thanks for pointing that out. My Zero was some hundred hours of age when I snipped it, listened, not happy, and reconnected it. Are you suggesting that I could have snipped it, not happy, burn for more hours, then judge? I have reservations that the sound will mature much in my case. That is why I soldered back the connections.


----------



## jujulio

well frankly i don't have the zero yet (10 more days ) so i am not of the best advice, but i think i read that like 350 hours of burn in were needed (though it might be for the franken mod), given that you already did a few hundred, i would say that your assumption is correct. Though penchum said that the sound was coming back and forth along the way, so maybe you're currently on the 'treble' upper side of your ZERO's signature, so maybe for now you should leave it as it is to spare you the trouble, but if you think that with some more burn in you get less trebble you might want to try again. It also depends on your headphones, grado's one for instance tend to 'amplify' the treble

 But once again a zero owner should confirm this


----------



## soundmaan

I snipped those caps off too and don't like this sound as much like before. Have to solder those back in headamp section but leave without to rca out. Almost same feelings like RickEC, details in highs good but example bass is different now and sound isn't so warm somehow. I like more that sound what opa627 itself makes.


----------



## jujulio

i bought RCA connectors at the source for like 7$, they are gold plated, should they be better than ZERO's stock ones?


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *soundmaan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I snipped those caps off too and don't like this sound as much like before. Have to solder those back in headamp section but leave without to rca out. Almost same feelings like RickEC, details in highs good but example bass is different now and sound isn't so warm somehow. I like more that sound what opa627 itself makes._

 

Curious what headphones you are using - as I think this is a factor. People with "darker" cans like Sennheisers tend to like this as it opens up the top end a bit, while when I had my Grados I thought it made them too harsh - so this mod may be dependent on the headphones you are using...


----------



## soundmaan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Curious what headphones you are using - as I think this is a factor. People with "darker" cans like Sennheisers tend to like this as it opens up the top end a bit, while when I had my Grados I thought it made them too harsh - so this mod may be dependent on the headphones you are using..._

 

DT 770 Pro 80ohm. The sound isn't so "warm" now and the soundstage isn't so good too. This ain't bad mod for sure, but i like more that little guess muffled sound then


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *soundmaan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_DT 770 Pro 80ohm. The sound isn't so "warm" now and the soundstage isn't so good too. This ain't bad mod for sure, but i like more that little guess muffled sound then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I have those Phones, and I "had" the 250 OHM premiums. Those phones are a touch Sibilant. I didn't snip my caps either. I thought it would exacerbate the sibilance of the Beyers.


----------



## ScottieB

^ Yeah that's what I was thinking - people with already "bright" or "forward" headphones probably shouldn't do that snip mod. Matter of preference, of course.


----------



## soundmaan

Yep, I did that only - let's see and hear the difference - meaning, and it wasn't better with these phones. Luckily those little things can be solder back. No harm done.


----------



## No Smoking

I'm currently trying to order a free sample of LT1364 from Linear tech but they are asking for application of the chips what should I put in this box? Thanks


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *No Smoking* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm currently trying to order a free sample of LT1364 from Linear tech but they are asking for application of the chips what should I put in this box? Thanks_

 

How about audio amplifier?


----------



## No Smoking

But aren't they meant to be business samples and thus I would need a business application not personal/home application?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *No Smoking* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But aren't they meant to be business samples and thus I would need a business application not personal/home application?_

 

I thought you were doing R&D for Head amps?


----------



## No Smoking

I don't think I quite understand. Do you recommend I say that "I am doing research and development for headphone amplifiers?".


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *No Smoking* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't think I quite understand. Do you recommend I say that "I am doing research and development for headphone amplifiers?"._

 

Like a steel Trap


----------



## RickEC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jujulio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i bought RCA connectors at the source for like 7$, they are gold plated, should they be better than ZERO's stock ones?_

 

Though I doubt that the effect will be audibly discernable, I am keen to hear positive experiences. After all this will be a low cost mod that nobody would really mind.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Curious what headphones you are using - as I think this is a factor. People with "darker" cans like Sennheisers tend to like this as it opens up the top end a bit, while when I had my Grados I thought it made them too harsh - so this mod may be dependent on the headphones you are using..._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ Yeah that's what I was thinking - people with already "bright" or "forward" headphones probably shouldn't do that snip mod. Matter of preference, of course._

 

Considering that my experience is based on K701, I vote for this conjecture.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *soundmaan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep, I did that only - let's see and hear the difference - meaning, and it wasn't better with these phones. Luckily those little things can be solder back. No harm done._

 

Yes, luckily this mod is reversible. So for those who wish to sample the effect, it is advisable to snip only one end.

 One more observation to contribute: I A/B the digital in between the seemingly unworthy stock optical cable and a coaxial cable (Belden with canare plugs). While few times I thought I heard warmer sound via the coax, most times I heard no difference. If my hearing serves me well, the A/B actually says 1) my setup is not high-end enough to possibly project the differences, OR 2) no difference between the means of carrying the digital signal. If the latter is true, it also means that the stock optical cable is as competent as a Belden/Canare cable. 

 Would like to hear any success story on changing the stock optical cable to a better quality one.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Keeping in mind what DaMnEd just said, I thought the Zero drove the 701s too, till I heard it later through the PH100s, its not really about the volume, but the dynamic of the music - somehow there was a feeling that the 701s were choking the Zero, at the same time I feel the PH100 effortlessly handles whatever needs the 701s throw at it.._

 

I found much the same as I upgraded components, with the soundstage opening up with each upgrade, as if the studio the recordings in became bigger each time.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Heh, be careful! It sounded so good, I had to find out how much better a dedicated amp wold be. Then I had to know what a different DAC would do. Then how abut a little better AMP. Hmmm, wonder what another amp and DAC might do?_

 

Hmm, I'm up to, what is it... well over a couple of $k now (see sig), but I knew from the beginning I might do this, as it would be better value than attempting it with regular hi-fi, which would require 10x the investment.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jujulio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_my question is, do you think it's worth for me to buy the little dot mkv to replace my marantz( i really like its 'loudness' fonction^^ make your headphone work a bit like a subwoofer, great for electro, trance etc...)? I never had the chance to try another amp so i really don't know what to expect 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Get the Audio-gd C2C or one of their HP amps. For about the same price, the C2C is miles better than the MKV, to the point of using a DAC worth 3x as much, as well as expensive cables. You could probably get the same performance as the MKV, or better than it from one of Audio-gd's cheaper amps.


----------



## jujulio

Thanks currawong, i will keep that in mind when the time is ripe for buying an amp!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_


 Hmm, I'm up to, what is it... well over a couple of $k now (see sig), but I knew from the beginning I might do this, as it would be better value than attempting it with regular hi-fi, which would require 10x the investment.
_

 

Heh, yeah that's how I rationalized this also. Now, I'm looking at my neglected "main" system going Hmmmm...


----------



## jujulio

Thanks currawong, i will keep that in mind when the time is ripe for buying an amp!
 edit: i saw your review i enjoed it, realy abstracting to deliver the meaning to a newcomer like me. So you think it's best designed for low impendance cans like AKG and Denon, how would it sound with a HD 650 given its impendance? Truth is i meanly listen to electronica, trance, goa, dark etc...I used to listen to rock and some classical with organs like Bach, but when i got my HD650 and my father's marantz 30 years old receiver, i fell for this kind of music, while the music i once favored didn't rival its pleasure. But your review makes me think about that, should give it a try again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I assume that my setup is currently favoring this type of music, though i don't regret because it allows me to explore new music.


----------



## mattcalf

I have a bantam DAC and I'm building a starving student so I'm wondering if it'd be worth using the Zero as a pre-amp.
 So:
 Laptop > bantam > ZERO > starving student > Q40s

 Or should I use the ZERO independent of the other two? (If I get one)


----------



## Coreyk78

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mattcalf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a bantam DAC and I'm building a starving student so I'm wondering if it'd be worth using the Zero as a pre-amp.
 So:
 Laptop > bantam > ZERO > starving student > Q40s

 Or should I use the ZERO independent of the other two? (If I get one)_

 

The Zero only has digital inputs, either coax or optical, so you can't use analog outputs from another DAC to feed the DAC/pre-amp in the Zero.


----------



## mattcalf

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Coreyk78* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Zero only has digital inputs, either coax or optical, so you can't use analog outputs from another DAC to feed the DAC/pre-amp in the Zero._

 

Ok thanks for clearing that up.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jujulio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks currawong, i will keep that in mind when the time is ripe for buying an amp!
 edit: i saw your review i enjoed it, realy abstracting to deliver the meaning to a newcomer like me. So you think it's best designed for low impendance cans like AKG and Denon, how would it sound with a HD 650 given its impendance? Truth is i meanly listen to electronica, trance, goa, dark etc...I used to listen to rock and some classical with organs like Bach, but when i got my HD650 and my father's marantz 30 years old receiver, i fell for this kind of music, while the music i once favored didn't rival its pleasure. But your review makes me think about that, should give it a try again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I assume that my setup is currently favoring this type of music, though i don't regret because it allows me to explore new music._

 

You bring up a very good point. I discovered quite a bit of music not suited to AKG K701s was fantastic with my Denons, which opened up a world of music that is brought to life by them.

 The C2C does pretty well with all cans IMO. The perspective you often hear on the forums about high-impedance headphones needing tube amps comes from the high-end of the listening spectrum. I plugged my HD650s into the Zero (before I traded them for the HD600s) and was quite pleased with the result. Having headphones that are _too_ good for your gear in a manner allows you to upgrade everything else and hear a clear improvement.


----------



## Henmyr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Having headphones that are too good for your gear in a manner allows you to upgrade everything else and hear a clear improvement._

 

That's my route also
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Compared to the Zero amp + LD MKV, which upgrade after that was the biggest, your dac upgrade or your amp upgrade?


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's my route also
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Compared to the Zero amp + LD MKV, which upgrade after that was the biggest, your dac upgrade or your amp upgrade?_

 

That's a hard question to answer. When I did the C2C review, I was going about picking apart the fine details when listening. There were two aspects that stuck in my mind with upgrades: Improved detail and separation and improved ability to drive headphones (deliver that detail). The former was delivered by a DAC upgrade, and the latter by an amp upgrade.

 Considering this actually, I've ignored component synergy, that is, what combinations of components work well together. In one of the head-fi meets, someone wrote about how in a system, you could change one component and the system then sounded horrid. In an article on one of the hi-fi review sites, correspondingly, someone changed one component in his system and suddenly nailed the right combination, resulting in amazing sound. After going through a few components now, I'm starting to feel what others have said about it being more important about enjoying listening than whether the system is perfect or not. For me, that means I might have, in the beginning, just bought the Zero and been happy, using the same headphones as I had for 15 or more years (MB Quart QP 55Xs if you were wondering). So if you're enjoying yourself now, keep enjoying yourself. The further you go up the chain, the harder it is.


----------



## RipcordAFF

Hey guys,

 Alright I love my new zero, but this clicking is driving me mad. It clicks a relay when it receives a new signal, and another when it looses it. Since the whole computer is running through coax out to the zero, it clicks every time there is a small noise on the computer. 

 I read a few pages back about there is a light that turns on inside when it receives a signal and turns off when its gone. That got me thinking, might there be a way to manually force the zero to hold that relay open? I know absolutly nothing about circuitry, but I thought someone here might.

 Some people have suggested that they dont have this problem b\c their sound cards are obviously sending some sort of data through the digital outs all the time so the zero's relay just stays open, but I really dont want to add a sound card just to use its digital out (b\c there wouldnt theoretically be any increase in SQ over mobo on board coax out...right?). I am using ASIO4all if that matters..

 Anyways, ANY help would be greatly appreciated!!


----------



## AudioPhewl

Yes, you could force the relay to stay closed-circuit. You'd have to look up the part number of the relay and give us the pinout for us to tell you which pins need to be connected together. And you may find you get unwanted noises when there is no actual input signal.

 TBH mate, pick up an AV-710 and use the optical out instead. They're dirt cheap, and mine keeps the output open the whole time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## oatmeal769

Well, having just purchased my second Zero, this one for my "Head-Theater" setup, I can add confirmation to the consensus of WSZ0304 being a much better seller than Lawrence. Communication was MUCH better, and shipping was 6 days order to door - As opposed to Lawrence's Month.

 Now then, where shall I buy an HDAM or two...


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, having just purchased my second Zero, this one for my "Head-Theater" setup, I can add confirmation to the consensus of WSZ0304 being a much better seller than Lawrence. Communication was MUCH better, and shipping was 6 days order to door - As opposed to Lawrence's Month.

 Now then, where shall I buy an HDAM or two..._

 

See the sig of APs post right above you! Audio-GD is the place! Great serive there too - when my first HDAMs came with the leads loose in some places, even though I fixed it myself, he gave me 50% off my next order.


----------



## electropop

I have to say that I'm not quite happy with Audiophilechina's way of doing business. 

 I ordered two Zero's... almost a month ago. After two weeks i sent them a message asking where they might be lingering. Right away received a message saying that someone will check the details and reply the next day... This was one and a half weeks ago. Still no reply. 
 Better contact them again..

 I just want my zero


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *electropop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have to say that I'm not quite happy with Audiophilechina's way of doing business. 

 I ordered two Zero's... almost a month ago. After two weeks i sent them a message asking where they might be lingering. Right away received a message saying that someone will check the details and reply the next day... This was one and a half weeks ago. Still no reply. 
 Better contact them again..

 I just want my zero 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You may like to pile on my thread in the Vendors forum. I figured if they wouldn't answer during pre-sales, FRAK-EM!


----------



## hdlovar

OK! Finally got the cash back from the other amp that I recently returned and now have the funds to purchase a Zero.

 From what I could gather by searching through these 800+ pages about the zero the mods to have are the HDAM Earth (v1?) for the DAC section and the LT1346 for the amplifier. Then there was something about some 22uf caps? Finally there's the Frankenmod which can be purchased from PP (still, I hope).

 The person to buy from is WSZ0304 on ebay.

 Do I have everything correct?


----------



## DaMnEd

Yes, your correct on all counts, but have a look at this: Introduction to the Zero DAC and Headphone amplifier. - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

 The 22uf cap mod is covered in the section: _The unnecessary capacitors_

 The Frankenmod is a kit and you have to DIY, more here: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/fra...-heart-370985/


----------



## DaLiu

Hi, this is my first time when i try to use a ZERO DAC but the problem for me is that i really dont know how should i connect to my soundcard. Basically i want to use Zero DAC as preamp for my AKG 601, so i want to take the signal from my Creative X-Fi the problem is i dont have optical out so i need to use a RCA coaxial cable, the problem is that my knowleadge about this stuff are basically 0 (zero), so i need some advise like to some little child. 

 Should i connect a cable from LINE IN from Creative X-FI and plugged to LINE OUT or COAXIAL on my ZERO DAC?


----------



## seaice

DaLiu: The Zero DAC has only two digital inputs - one OPTICAL and one COAXIAL. Your sound card must have a digital output too - either coaxial or optical. 

 So, you have only two possible ways how to connect the Zero DAC to your soundcard:

 1. Optical digital output of your soundcard > optical cable > OPTICAL digital input of the Zero

 2. Coaxial digital output of your soundcard > coaxial cable > COAXIAL digital input of the Zero

 There is no other way to connect the Zero to your soundcard.

 The Line OUT connectors of the Zero are analog outputs of the Zero for some external amplifier.


----------



## DaLiu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *seaice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_2. Coaxial digital output of your soundcard > coaxial cable > COAXIAL digital input of the Zero

 There is no other way to connect the Zero to your soundcard.

 The Line OUT connectors of the Zero are analog outputs of the Zero for some external amplifier._

 

Can you show me what kind of cable i need for coaxial digital output because i really cant find one with 3.5mm to RCA, only with 2 x RCA. Thank you very much.

 By the way Seaice im leaving in Czech Republic, maybe you can tell me from where i can buy this kind of cable online, i dont know czech language so if you can help me please do it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I need one this i think but i cant find it: http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/1142/img1853ej0.jpg


----------



## seaice

DaLiu, can you tell, what x-fi card do you exactly have, which model? (To be sure, what solution to recommend)


----------



## DaLiu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *seaice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_DaLiu, can you tell, what x-fi card do you exactly have, which model? (To be sure, what solution to recommend)_

 

The card is Creative X-FI XtremeMusic, this is it:


----------



## seaice

There is a Digital I/O module for your card: Sound Blaster Digital I/O Module - Add optical and coaxial digital I/O to your Sound Blaster equipped PC.
 Then, you can use any standard optical of coaxial cable.
 I have tried to find it somewhere in the cz, but no success so far.

 (By the way, the cable you were looking in your previous post - is it this? 2 to 50 foot long Digital or Analog Audio cable 3.5mm 1 8 mono mini phone plug connector to RCA connector whit Belden 1505F cable.
 But I am not absolutely sure if this will work with your card.)


----------



## DaLiu

None of your solutions are not good for me, the adaptor i cant find in Europe and the cable from that site the shipping is around 80 $ and the cable 20 $. So basically i have the preamp and i cant used it.


----------



## kiljim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaLiu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, this is my first time when i try to use a ZERO DAC but the problem for me is that i really dont know how should i connect to my soundcard. Basically i want to use Zero DAC as preamp for my AKG 601, so i want to take the signal from my Creative X-Fi the problem is i dont have optical out so i need to use a RCA coaxial cable, the problem is that my knowleadge about this stuff are basically 0 (zero), so i need some advise like to some little child. 

 Should i connect a cable from LINE IN from Creative X-FI and plugged to LINE OUT or COAXIAL on my ZERO DAC?_

 

Alternatively you could get a USB to Optical link Xitel MiniDisc MD-Port DG2 PC Link Optical Audio Cable - eBay (item 370131951483 end time Dec-23-08 20:02:13 PST)
 But this does not go through your soundcard, so it's not exactly connecting the Zero to your card


----------



## seaice

DaLiu:
 Finally, I have found the digital IO module in several Czech stores. But they will not have it on stock probably and I am not sure about the delivery times, but you can try it... It you need my language assistence, just write me a private message (we are a little out of topic here) and I can ask them in Czech. 

 This is the store:
BUY- poÄÃ*taÄe, notebooky, monitory, zÃ¡kladnÃ* desky, pamÄ›ti, pevnÃ© disky, procesory, grafickÃ© karty | Komponenty | SC Creative DigitÃ¡lnÃ* I/O Modul pro zvukovÃ© karty


----------



## sandchak

With your sound card, you have two options:

 One is the above suggested USB Digital PC link, in which case it will bypass your soundcard and go through USB.

 The other, being :

 See if your motherboard supports SPDIF out, if its an Asus motherboard, its cheap and easy to get SPDIF out module, coats around USD10 + shipping, this is the ASUS one:






 You get for other motherboards too, like gigabyte - biostar - MSI and so on, just google or search EBAY :

SPDIF, For Desktops, For Laptops Notebooks items on eBay.com

 Or else change your soundcard, with SPDIF OUT.. Cheapest and best go for Chaintech AV710..

 Hope this helps..

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaLiu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_None of your solutions are not good for me, the adaptor i cant find in Europe and the cable from that site the shipping is around 80 $ and the cable 20 $. So basically i have the preamp and i cant used it._


----------



## DaLiu

I have a optical digital output on mobo but i dont know if is working only with ASUS soundcard which is a **** or with another soundcard too, i tried to connect using that digital output from mobo but i dont know if i have a signal or not because wasnt working. In the mobo manual is mention only this about the optical digital output:
_
 Optical S/PDIF Out port - This port connects an external audio output device via an optical S/PDIF cable.
_

 My components are these:

*ZERO DAC preamp:*





*ASUS Rampage Formula:*





*Creative X-FI XtremeMusic:*





*AKG 601:*


----------



## sandchak

So you do have SPDIF out on your mobo - and if you have made the right connections with the ZERO DAC, it should work..

 Check your sound properties on the control panel, is it on mobo souncard or something else..


----------



## DaLiu

Im not using the on board soundcard, probably that digital output is working only if im using on board soundcard which im not going to use.


----------



## sandchak

Well, in that case, you either have to use a USB digital PCLINK or something like the converter suggested above..
 In fact even if you use the USB pclink, you will have to change the settings away from your extreme sound card.. the only option being the converter and its locally available, too bad it will cost you more than your soundcard itself!


----------



## DaLiu

Probably if i will find a 3.5mm mini (1/8) to RCA Coaxial, Digital Cable 75 Ohm will be the best solution, i will see what can i do, ****ty problem.


----------



## sandchak

see if you like this :

Welcome to Audiophilechina

 people on the forum say its good..


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_see if you like this :

Welcome to Audiophilechina

 people on the forum say its good.._

 

There were quite a few complaints about them in their forum before it was changed to a direct link to their site.


----------



## ScottieB

The xfi has optical spdif out you just need the right cable.

For only $1.82 each when QTY 50+ purchased - Toslink to Mini M/M OD:5.0mm, Molded Type - 6ft | Toslink to Mini Plug

 I don't know about shipping to where you are, but those cables are not hard to come by. It would completely defeat the purpose of having that card to go back to your mobo output IMO... I'd look for a cable. You should be able to find a local place that has them - or a local ebay seller. It is a lso a much cheaper option than getting the addon module (although I have it and it is nice).


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The xfi has optical spdif out you just need the right cable._

 

I did not see any SPDIF out in the pic of the soundcard he posted..

 I have one question too, I dont have a sound card (seperate ) but since my motherboard ( Asus P5KPL - AM) supports SPDIF out, I bought one of the Asus SPDIF modules pictured in the previous page. Does one get a better SQ through a dedicated soundcard, or is it as good as it comes out of Motherboard - I mean afterall I am using the Zero as a DAC, so why do I need a dedicated soundcard??..


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There were quite a few complaints about them in their forum before it was changed to a direct link to their site._

 


 You mean the product or the vendor??.. because I recall I read some good words about the converter.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did not see any SPDIF out in the pic of the soundcard he posted..

 I have one question too, I dont have a sound card (seperate ) but since my motherboard ( Asus P5KPL - AM) supports SPDIF out, I bought one of the Asus SPDIF modules pictured in the previous page. Does one get a better SQ through a dedicated soundcard, or is it as good as it comes out of Motherboard - I mean afterall I am using the Zero as a DAC, so why do I need a dedicated soundcard??.._

 

That's why I said you need the right cable. It is a mini jack, but it can do optical out - trust me -- look at the cable in the link I sent. As far as quality, onboard sound cards have two (potential) issues that can affect even a bit-perfect out. One is that they are prone to interference - presumably from the rest of the components on the mobo. This manifests as static or clicks or pops. Also, many have complained that their onboard sound cards create "clicks" between songs as they disengage and then re-engage the optical out. That is, they don't send a constant signal, so there is an audible glitch when switching from song to song. If you don't have these issues, then you likely won't notice a difference with a separate card.


----------



## DaLiu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The xfi has optical spdif out you just need the right cable.

For only $1.82 each when QTY 50+ purchased - Toslink to Mini M/M OD:5.0mm, Molded Type - 6ft | Toslink to Mini Plug_

 

I would like to buy this cable is shipping only to CA and US, im from Europe, Czech Republic.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaLiu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would like to buy this cable is shipping only to CA and US, im from Europe, Czech Republic._

 

OK, my point was that I've sent you the cable you need - it's up to you to find a local vendor. The cables aren't that hard to find, so you should be able to find someone local or who will ship to you (you could try ebay) - being from the US, though, I really can't help with that part, sorry.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have one question too, I dont have a sound card (seperate ) but since my motherboard ( Asus P5KPL - AM) supports SPDIF out, I bought one of the Asus SPDIF modules pictured in the previous page. Does one get a better SQ through a dedicated soundcard, or is it as good as it comes out of Motherboard - I mean afterall I am using the Zero as a DAC, so why do I need a dedicated soundcard??.._

 

Hello,
 Here's my opinion. If it sounds good to you, then it's fine. Pay close attention to Pops' and crackle type artifacts. Most likely the soundcard will be better in some regards. 

 Look at where your sound card chip is on your motherboard. Most likely it is nestled up against one or two Ethernet chips and all the rest of the I/O on the Board. It's kinda crowded down there! this is not conducive to great quality sound. A ton of EMI and RFI. Getting your chip up off the board has it's advantages for sure. It is still a hostile environment, but not near as bad as the motherboard. I have a Asus P5K3 Deluxe, and i couldn't use the onboard sound. I was getting this crackling and popping crap coming out of the speakers. I'm not saying all boards do this, here's the thing though, you may only notice a little harshness or ambiguous distortion that makes the sound uncomfortable. I was lucky I guess, mine reared it's ugly head in an obvious way. 

 IMHO, if you're doing DAC's and Head amps, Good phones, a "decent" sound card is part of that equation. You don't have to spend $200. Get one that does SPDIF and you should be OK.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's why I said you need the right cable. It is a mini jack, but it can do optical out - trust me -- look at the cable in the link I sent. As far as quality, onboard sound cards have two (potential) issues that can affect even a bit-perfect out. One is that they are prone to interference - presumably from the rest of the components on the mobo. This manifests as static or clicks or pops. Also, many have complained that their onboard sound cards create "clicks" between songs as they disengage and then re-engage the optical out. That is, they don't send a constant signal, so there is an audible glitch when switching from song to song. If you don't have these issues, then you likely won't notice a difference with a separate card._

 

Hi Scottie, thats a very good solution for DaLiu, guess in my case its going to be a little more expensive.. All this while I have been thinking Zero as an external sound card, Am I wrong??.. or is it better to go through the USB digital PCLINK that came with ZERO.. and isnt a dedicated sound card prone to interference from MOBO?.. Or Am I just confused between a Soundcard and a DAC??..


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello,
 Here's my opinion. If it sounds good to you, then it's fine. Pay close attention to Pops' and crackle type artifacts. Most likely the soundcard will be better in some regards. 

 Look at where your sound card chip is on your motherboard. Most likely it is nestled up against one or two Ethernet chips and all the rest of the I/O on the Board. It's kinda crowded down there! this is not conducive to great quality sound. A ton of EMI and RFI. Getting your chip up off the board has it's advantages for sure. It is still a hostile environment, but not near as bad as the motherboard. I have a Asus P5K3 Deluxe, and i couldn't use the onboard sound. I was getting this crackling and popping crap coming out of the speakers. I'm not saying all boards do this, here's the thing though, you may only notice a little harshness or ambiguous distortion that makes the sound uncomfortable. I was lucky I guess, mine reared it's ugly head in an obvious way. 

 IMHO, if you're doing DAC's and Head amps, Good phones, a "decent" sound card is part of that equation. You don't have to spend $200. Get one that does SPDIF and you should be OK._

 

Hi Les,

 Yes, there is this pops every time I switch on and off the system, that is really what I call as problem to me.

 I had an audiotrak HD2 SE sound card before I bought the Zero, my point was (or my thinking) that the less circuits in between, the better would be the sound from Zero if I could have the sound out of my mobo feeding the ZERO, and thats why I got this Asus SPDIF module that takes the sound directly out of the motherboard to the ZERO..

 I mean why would one need sound be processed by a sound card and then again reprocessed by the ZERO..

 My question is about the sound quality and not the odd pops and cracks in between music...


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Les,

 Yes, there is this pops every time I switch on and off the system, that is really what I call as problem to me.

 I had an audiotrak HD2 SE sound card before I bought the Zero, my point was (or my thinking) that the less circuits in between, the better would be the sound from Zero if I could have the sound out of my mobo feeding the ZERO, and thats why I got this Asus SPDIF module that takes the sound directly out of the motherboard to the ZERO..

 I mean why would one need sound be processed by a sound card and then again reprocessed by the ZERO..

 My question is about the sound quality and not the odd pops and cracks in between music..._

 

The processing and handling will be the same whether the MB puts out SPDIF or the soundcard. They are both "Soundcards. 

 The MB "soundcard" is shoehorned and Nestled down in the "TRON" world of the Motherboard. The slotted soundcard is standing off the MB and away from the Electrical noise of the board. Additionally, most "Decent" soundcards should have better design and electronics than the Onboard chips. This may or may not make any difference, as you are only transporting the digital stream to the DAC. It would seem that the biggest advantage is getting the "Card" off the MB. Most Sound chips are next to the CPU and amongst the Ethernet chips. Additionally, mine is right next to the Onboard wireless controller. Total junk coming out of my MB soundcard.


----------



## sandchak

Ok Les, I get your point now.. maybe I need to take a closer look at my motherboard as soon daylight comes..
 You do have a point though, depending on the motherboard design and sound chip placement, one should decide on the necessity of a dedicated sound card even with an external DAC..

 THANKS !


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok Les, I get your point now.. maybe I need to take a closer look at my motherboard as soon daylight comes..
 You do have a point though, depending on the motherboard design and sound chip placement, one should decide on the necessity of a dedicated sound card even with an external DAC..

 THANKS !_

 

The MB environment is a very "Dirty Noisey" environment. If it is not "designed" correctly, it will never run right. The Paths from the RAM to the CPU are noisey and prone to interference. If they are not designed correctly, your memory runs with errors constantly, and the board always feels sluggish. ASUS boards are my favorite. But now that "EVERYTHING" is on the MB, they are getting noisier. Just my 2 cents!


----------



## davidw89

er i don't have a sound card my motherboard does have both coaxial and optical, can you output these to the zero say using optical?


----------



## DaLiu

I just ordered a TOSLINK to Optical Mini-Plug Digital Audio Cable from Ebay but will take 1 month to receive it.

TOSLINK to Optical Mini-Plug Digital Audio Cable - eBay (item 220328066338 end time Dec-21-08 00:15:44 PST)


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaLiu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just ordered a TOSLINK to Optical Mini-Plug Digital Audio Cable from Ebay but will take 1 month to receive it.

TOSLINK to Optical Mini-Plug Digital Audio Cable - eBay (item 220328066338 end time Dec-21-08 00:15:44 PST)_

 

Try here 

HDMI Cable, Home Theater Accessories, HDMI Products, Cables, Adapters, Video/Audio Switch, Networking, USB, Firewire, Printer Toner, and more!

 Fast and Cheap, just like my first wife!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davidw89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_er i don't have a sound card my motherboard does have both coaxial and optical, can you output these to the zero say using optical?_

 

Yes


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Scottie, thats a very good solution for DaLiu, guess in my case its going to be a little more expensive.. All this while I have been thinking Zero as an external sound card, Am I wrong??.. or is it better to go through the USB digital PCLINK that came with ZERO.. and isnt a dedicated sound card prone to interference from MOBO?.. Or Am I just confused between a Soundcard and a DAC??.._

 

It's possible anything in your case you get interference, but I think the onboard sound chips are more likely because they share circuitry with the rest of the mobo. A discrete sound card has the chips all sitting off the mobo and potentially on a shielded card. I've even seen mods where people place static shielding materials on their cards to prevent this. In my experience it isn't necessary. Sometimes I'll get some weird static, usually when switching modes on my x-fi, but a reboot solves it every tiime.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Fast and Cheap, just like my first wife!_

 

I had the first laugh of the day !!!

 Well, now on the topic.. Have you seen anywhere anything called "audiophile motherboard" ..

 I guess this will be as difficult and GOOD as finding my second wife !!


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had the first laugh of the day !!!

 Well, now on the topic.. Have you seen anywhere anything called "audiophile motherboard" ..

 I guess this will be as difficult and GOOD as finding my second wife !!_

 

See there ARE audiphile audio cards, but getting one and then using it with your Zero would be pointless. The audiophile cards use better components ON THE CARD - so they may have a better DAC chip for instance or better opamps. But none of them will be better than your Zero as a DAC. The only benefit of a discrete card when using an external DAC would be the better transport - the (hopefully) intereference-free SDIF connection. SO - if your onboard card is not exhibiting any issues, you're fine - stick with it. If not, I'd go with the cheapest card that has SDIF you can find - check ebay for audigy for example - unless you need the other features like gaming stuff (which is why I bought a more expensive one). The things that would make an "audiphile" card more expensive would all be bypassed (and outclassed) by the zero.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandchak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had the first laugh of the day !!!

 Well, now on the topic.. Have you seen anywhere anything called "audiophile motherboard" ..

 I guess this will be as difficult and GOOD as finding my second wife !!_

 

Audiophile and Motherboard are pretty much mutually exclusive. However these links should amuse you...

AOpen AX4B 533 Tube Motherboard Review - Page 1 - Introduction

Sound section of the AOpen AX4B-533 Tube Motherboard

Vacuum Tube PC Motherboard - Retro Thing


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Audiophile and Motherboard are pretty much mutually exclusive. However these links should amuse you...

AOpen AX4B 533 Tube Motherboard Review - Page 1 - Introduction

Sound section of the AOpen AX4B-533 Tube Motherboard

Vacuum Tube PC Motherboard - Retro Thing_

 


 Haha - missed the motherboard part - that IS funny.... audiophile audio cards are one thing...


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Haha - missed the motherboard part - that IS funny.... audiophile audio cards are one thing..._

 

Just what we need, a Blue Plasma Gassy tube taking out our Motherboards!


----------



## hdlovar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, your correct on all counts, but have a look at this: Introduction to the Zero DAC and Headphone amplifier. - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

 The 22uf cap mod is covered in the section: The unnecessary capacitors

 The Frankenmod is a kit and you have to DIY, more here: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/fra...-heart-370985/_

 

Perfect! Thanks DaMnEd!

 Edit: I read through that post and now have a few more questions :3

 The HDAM Earth would replace the DAC OPA's, but the preamp should still be upgraded to two LT1364. Then you snip the caps, add the frankenmod, acquire a new volume pot (if you can) with... What? Is the only possiblity the NOS ALPS? (What exactly does the volume pot even do?)

 Also, is it generally agreed upon that the HDAM Earth allows you to reach a higher SQ than the brown OPA2604's?


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


 The HDAM Earth would replace the DAC OPA's, but the preamp should still be upgraded to two LT1364. 
 

Yes.

  Quote:


 Then you snip the caps, add the frankenmod, acquire a new volume pot (if you can) with... What? Is the only possiblity the NOS ALPS? (What exactly does the volume pot even do?) 
 

The pot mod may be unnecessary if you have a high impedance headphones, high impedance headphones usually require you to crank the volume past the point where imbalance exists in the default one. What does the volume pot do? Well, it controls the volume. pot = potentiometer

  Quote:


 Also, is it generally agreed upon that the HDAM Earth allows you to reach a higher SQ than the brown OPA2604's? 
 

Definitely, I have yet to find anyone that didn't like it better, a lot better. Even better than the initial upgrade (OPA627) that was also noticeably better.


----------



## AudioPhewl

^There was one person who tried to argue that an opamp IC was better than the HDAM - I think it might have been Andrea. Regardless, the general consensus is that the HDAM modules offer a marked improvement over any opamp - very much so in my case.

 ~Phewl


----------



## hdlovar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The pot mod may be unnecessary if you have a high impedance headphones, high impedance headphones usually require you to crank the volume past the point where imbalance exists in the default one. What does the volume pot do? Well, it controls the volume. pot = potentiometer_

 

Well I'll be using the Zero with a pair of 580's so I'm not so sure I'll need the pot. If for some reason I did though, are there any walkthroughs for soldering a new pot in? (which pots are compatible, only the ALPS?)

 Thanks for the link btw 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Also, thanks for the input AudioPhewl.


----------



## DaMnEd

Well I used my ZERO with a pair of HD650, same impedance as yours (300 ohm), and I found that I didn't really need the pot mod, I never listened at such low volume, not with music, not with anything, not even talk radio.

 Don't know of any other pot that fixes the issues, I may know some that fit, but I would have to test them to be sure they fix the imbalance.

 Walkthroughs... well, you do not need one, really, as long as you know how to solder, it is a simple de-solder and solder job. But you can find some instructions on this thread, search for alps+solder etc, you'll find it. Penchum was the first to do it I think, so you may want to give his posts special attention 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## electropop

Aww dang..

 Good thing i have an extra logarithmic alps pot 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll be using AD2000's and Grado's so there will probably be a need for it..


----------



## Pricklely Peete

What's happening guys ?

 Peete.


----------



## hdlovar

My father is heading to China in a few days so I may see if I can get him to pick up a Zero while he's over there.

 Is there anything in particular I should have him look out for? (different versions etc)

 Then again, I may just wait for the compass to come out...


----------



## DaMnEd

Not really, get the stock version and do the mods yourself is my advise. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 If I was you, I'd probably wait for the compass too.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What's happening guys ?

 Peete._

 

Not much Peete, the usual.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What's happening guys ?

 Peete._

 

I've got bird-flu. And I might be buying a DacMagic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## ccschua

Well, for the best sound at good price, Kingwa is coming out with the budget DAC - Compass. I like the components selection : DIR9001, Dale, Alps pot, I2S using PCM2707.etc.

audio-gd DAC Compass

 As usual, early birds will get lots of discount or lots of free gift, until the gate close.


----------



## Aaron909

Hey guys, just a quick question. Does anyone know if the Zero DAC would be able to run the Beyerdynamic D770 250ohm? If not, could you recommend any other amp/dac under $200. Thanks in advance


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aaron909* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys, just a quick question. Does anyone know if the Zero DAC would be able to run the Beyerdynamic D770 250ohm? If not, could you recommend any other amp/dac under $200. Thanks in advance_

 

"Run" it, yes. But the ZERO is not a very capable amp, not with your headphones, not with any.

 The ZERO is good for it's DAC, really, the amp is very limited.

 Look here: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/des...d-have-385759/

 This new project should give you something better than what the ZERO can offer, it will be a bit more expensive (250 I think) but it will be worth it.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aaron909* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys, just a quick question. Does anyone know if the Zero DAC would be able to run the Beyerdynamic D770 250ohm? If not, could you recommend any other amp/dac under $200. Thanks in advance_

 

 I've used those Phones on that HeadAmp. They work fine. The HeadAmp works great for what it is. It will sound Much better than out of your Soundcard. You will wish that they put out a little more wattage, but as I stated the Zero DAC/Amp is better than line out on your SC. The Head amp will play clean music loud enough to permanently damage your hearing with those phones. It is NOT a high end separate head Amp though.

 As far as any other statements are concerned about the Compass. Nobody has heard it as far as I know. We haven't seen the specs on output. There are no comparisons by owners of different phones to say what it does or does not do. Basically it is a Ghost presently. IT does not exist.

 It may be the greatest thing since sliced bread.

 It may never exist.

 Truth will lie somewhere between those two end points.


----------



## Aaron909

DaMnEd - What about the Little Dot MKII, this little amp seems to be getting alot of positive reviews.

 Thanks for the info les_garten, good stuff.


----------



## DaMnEd

The Little Dot MKII does not have a DAC, if your looking for a standalone AMP I can suggest you some in that range.


----------



## Aaron909

Ah okay...I'm new to the audio scene as you can see.

 I'm not sure what I'm looking for, I just wanna be able to enjoy my headphones. What would give me better sound quality, a $200 AMP, or a $200 DAC?


----------



## DaMnEd

Depends on your current set up, what soundcard are you using, anything good? if it is a decent card then you should probably get a amp.


----------



## Aaron909

I'm using an Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeMusic. I think I'll go with an amp, thanks!


----------



## DaMnEd

Sounds good, I would recommend you this: Mini Millet DIY Tube Amplifier

_Out of stock_ at the moment but they should be building more. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




It is a proven design (DIY), with many happy owners.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've used those Phones on that HeadAmp. They work fine. The HeadAmp works great for what it is. It will sound Much better than out of your Soundcard. You will wish that they put out a little more wattage, but as I stated the Zero DAC/Amp is better than line out on your SC. The Head amp will play clean music loud enough to permanently damage your hearing with those phones. It is NOT a high end separate head Amp though.

 As far as any other statements are concerned about the Compass. Nobody has heard it as far as I know. We haven't seen the specs on output. There are no comparisons by owners of different phones to say what it does or does not do. Basically it is a Ghost presently. IT does not exist.

 It may be the greatest thing since sliced bread.

 It may never exist.

 Truth will lie somewhere between those two end points._

 

Edit: Just saw you've found the updates in the Zero alternative thread, but here's the link: DAC Compass


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sounds good, I would recommend you this: Mini Millet DIY Tube Amplifier

Out of stock at the moment but they should be building more. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




It is a proven design (DIY), with many happy owners._

 

Would you say that amp and a FrankenZero would be the best bang for buck DAC/Amp combo under $500?


----------



## goorackerelite

Hi I'm thinking about upgrading my opamps in the headphone/pre-amp section to the LT1364s. Do those opamps provide a smoother sound or a less harsh sound? What will I gain or lose with that upgrade in the preamp section? 

 Also, I'm using opa627s in the DAC section to drive a little dot mk3, I've heard that it's too tubey from other members, but I think it sounds nicely lush.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *decayed.cell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would you say that amp and a FrankenZero would be the best bang for buck DAC/Amp combo under $500?_

 

A C-2C and the FrankenZERO would be very hard to beat at 500US or less, depending on Zero options. IMO of course.

 The FrankenZERO scales very very well....as I continue to add better quality amps and preamps (post Frankie) the improvements continue to astound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I have no idea where this improvement ends.

 Sennsay and Pench can concur with this observation. With every (dedicated) amp upgrade the sound quality continues to improve and refine....seems to me the better gear you surround the Frankie with the better the end result. FWIW since I'm bound to say that (I would call a spade a spade though, those that know me would agree).

 Merry XMAS to all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## No Smoking

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *goorackerelite* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi I'm thinking about upgrading my opamps in the headphone/pre-amp section to the LT1364s. Do those opamps provide a smoother sound or a less harsh sound? What will I gain or lose with that upgrade in the preamp section? 

 Also, I'm using opa627s in the DAC section to drive a little dot mk3, I've heard that it's too tubey from other members, but I think it sounds nicely lush._

 

If I understand you correctly you are simply using your zero as a DAC/preamp? If this is the case the headphone section in your zero isn't utilised at all and therefore any upgrades in the opamps in the headphone section wouldn't have an impact on SQ.

 Edit: This isn't entirely correct.


----------



## decayed.cell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A C-2C and the FrankenZERO would be very hard to beat at 500US or less, depending on Zero options. IMO of course.

 The FrankenZERO scales very very well....as I continue to add better quality amps and preamps (post Frankie) the improvements continue to astound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I have no idea where this improvement ends.

 Sennsay and Pench can concur with this observation. With every (dedicated) amp upgrade the sound quality continues to improve and refine....seems to me the better gear you surround the Frankie with the better the end result. FWIW since I'm bound to say that (I would call a spade a spade though, those that know me would agree).

 Merry XMAS to all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

I guess it'll be interesting when the Compass DAC comes out then, and of course the FrankenCompass.

 EDIT: Speaking of which, where the hell has the pricelist gone lol. And I wonder what the ST-3 sounds like


----------



## bundee1

If you are using the volume control at all, you are using the headphone board portion of the zero and the sound goes through those opamps, so git to upgradin.


----------



## espressogeek

Yea I am wondering if I should even tinker with this thing. I reckon I'll swap out the caps, install some wima bypasses, and swap out the opamp on the DAC board with a HDAM.

 When is the compass coming out?


----------



## K3cT

Just a curious question since I have an extra HDAM laying around. Would it be possible to combo a normal op-amp and a HDAM in the Zero's amp section? I reckon it's possible but would it have any benefits to the sound quality?


----------



## Clok

My unit makes noticeable humm/buzz noice when turned on. 
 Why is that?


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just a curious question since I have an extra HDAM laying around. Would it be possible to combo a normal op-amp and a HDAM in the Zero's amp section? I reckon it's possible but would it have any benefits to the sound quality?_

 

One opamp per channel.

 Why would you want to have two completely different devices for this job? They'll be at different volumes, with different sonic qualities. It'd be like putting a blue filter over one of your eyes...

 ~Phewl.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clok* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My unit makes noticeable humm/buzz noice when turned on. 
 Why is that?_

 

Noisy transformer. Either put more padding underneath the actual transformer, or replace it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## Sganzerla

Does anyone know if this is a good replacement for that USB/SPDIF-OPTICAL device that comes with Zero DAC?

LINK

 Looks like CM10x devices are worth, right?

 I have a PC and now a notebook so I'm thinking of something useful for both.


----------



## baddfingerz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sganzerla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone know if this is a good replacement for that USB/SPDIF-OPTICAL device that comes with Zero DAC?

LINK

 Looks like CM10x devices are worth, right?

 I have a PC and now a notebook so I'm thinking of soformatsmething useful for both._

 

But then realized that the Zero has a coax S/PDIF input; I think a cheap converter like this USB-to-optical could be an issue.

 I own the exquisite Grado RS-2s and I want the best I can get, of course, but $ is tight. I am exhausted w/ research and have finally decided on the Zero (my first amp.) 


 While researching pro interfaces, I've learned that clock jitter is a huge issue. Some people think because the signal path is digital that things like interconnects, codecs, power supplies are not as big a concern like a lot of problems w/ analog. 

 While this gizmo keeps the conversion D-D, it is a conversion. The shortest signal path in any system is highly desired for good reason; the chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. In this case I'll just bet that link is this $15 converter.

 You can find out tons of stuff on the Net about the various forms of digital jitter on the net; I have not seen this issue addressed on this forum. I can tell you that the clarity of music reproduced by D/A-A/D audio is probably more dependent on clock synchronicity than anything else. And, after what I've read, I will use choose coax before optical. Either way, I am certainly not depend on any cheap-ass, $15 converter.

 Of course, you will get tons of good advice from people way more experienced and knowledgeable than me. Because this thread is so enormous, I think you should start a new one, just about optical/coaxial conversion. Then I will be subscribing.


----------



## Ash

I have a stock Zero for the last 1 year.
 I am wanting to change the opamps. I am getting a good deal on a pair of OPA627 Op-Amps on Brown Dogs (used) for $55. Is this a good upgrade from the standard 2604(I think)? 
 Or can I make a better investment in upgrading the ZERO with the HDAM thing - (I dont exactly know what it is?)
 Thanks a bunch!


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ash* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a stock Zero for the last 1 year.
 I am wanting to change the opamps. I am getting a good deal on a pair of OPA627 Op-Amps on Brown Dogs (used) for $55. Is this a good upgrade from the standard 2604(I think)? 
 Or can I make a better investment in upgrading the ZERO with the HDAM thing - (I dont exactly know what it is?)
 Thanks a bunch!_

 

A good upgrade? yes. A good price NOOOO!! (if you're talking US) - you could get an HDAM shipped to you from China for that, which would be a much better upgrade. If you're going to spend $55 I'd go right to an HDAM (think of it as a souped up OpAmp that was designed for audio specifically).


----------



## helicopter34234

Well I just received my LD MKII (early Christmas present) which I am pairing with my Zero. I did an ABX test against the Zero HP amp and really could not hear any noticeable difference. I tried a bunch of different songs, tried listening to snare drums, vocals, guitar, nothing made any difference apparent. I think I must have defective ears/perecption center of my brain because Lame V7 mp3 is pretty much transparent to me and I really really have to struggle to hear any artifacts whatsoever in CBR 112 Kbps (if I can hear them at all), at least for 'Sultans of Swing'. I know, it's pretty pathetic. Unless I don't know what it is I am looking for to discern a difference. If that is the case then I really don't want to learn because it will save me a ton of money not knowing. I don't know why my hearing would be so bad, I am 25, never have gone to any loud rock concerts. I verified that I can hear up to 17 khz (maybe 18 khz). I just don't know.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *helicopter34234* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I just received my LD MKII (early Christmas present) which I am pairing with my Zero. I did an ABX test against the Zero HP amp and really could not hear any noticeable difference. I tried a bunch of different songs, tried listening to snare drums, vocals, guitar, nothing made any difference apparent. I think I must have defective ears/perecption center of my brain because Lame V7 mp3 is pretty much transparent to me and I really really have to struggle to hear any artifacts whatsoever in CBR 112 Kbps (if I can hear them at all), at least for 'Sultans of Swing'. I know, it's pretty pathetic. Unless I don't know what it is I am looking for to discern a difference. If that is the case then I really don't want to learn because it will save me a ton of money not knowing. I don't know why my hearing would be so bad, I am 25, never have gone to any loud rock concerts. I verified that I can hear up to 17 khz (maybe 18 khz). I just don't know._

 

 Ain't a real easy way to put this but I'll try. You're listening to CRAP. I'm sure the LD is resolving the CRAP in a little better detail than the Zero, but maybe not. I don't have a LD II. I do have a LD V and it does some better than the Zero.

 First things first. You need to listen to some WAV's or FLAC, or APE files or some other lossless format. Trying to discern a difference in these two amps with that low a level of MP3 is kinda like breaking out a cassette tape or 8-Track. Hopefully, you'll notice the difference quickly when you get more detailed source music.


----------



## Ash

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A good upgrade? yes. A good price NOOOO!! (if you're talking US) - you could get an HDAM shipped to you from China for that, which would be a much better upgrade. If you're going to spend $55 I'd go right to an HDAM (think of it as a souped up OpAmp that was designed for audio specifically)._

 

Thanks for the clarification.... I would rather do the HDAM mod in that case. I guess there is some soldering involved....
 I cant remember the place/person who was selling the HDAM at a good price. Where have all the ppl here who have done the mod sourced their HDAM from... I hate to go thru 800 pages of info....


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ash* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the clarification.... I would rather do the HDAM mod in that case. I guess there is some soldering involved....
 I cant remember the place/person who was selling the HDAM at a good price. Where have all the ppl here who have done the mod sourced their HDAM from... I hate to go thru 800 pages of info...._

 

No soldering necessary (at least it shouldn't be - mine came very lightly damaged but they've since corrected this - and gave me a discount even though I was able to fix it myself) -- strictly plug and play.

 Check the sigs on any of AudioPhewls posts (he posted a few times in the last page or two) for a link to Audio-GD, where you should get the HDAM. You will need to choose between the Earth, Sun and Moon. The general concensous here is that the Earth is the most neutral (and as such the most liked here), the Sun is a bit too forward and bright, and the moon is newer, perhaps warmer and more "tube-like". Personally, I like the Sun (giving it another chance now) with my Senns because it makes them a touch less dark - there's still a small part of me that misses my Grado's. But honestly you can't go wrong with any of them. Any of the 3 will beat the pants off any opamp I've heard.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ain't a real easy way to put this but I'll try. You're listening to CRAP. I'm sure the LD is resolving the CRAP in a little better detail than the Zero, but maybe not. I don't have a LD II. I do have a LD V and it does some better than the Zero.

 First things first. You need to listen to some WAV's or FLAC, or APE files or some other lossless format. Trying to discern a difference in these two amps with that low a level of MP3 is kinda like breaking out a cassette tape or 8-Track. Hopefully, you'll notice the difference quickly when you get more detailed source music._

 

Helicopter:

 Agreed (Les).......you need to feed the DAC/AMP with CD quality (either through full wav or lossless as Les suggests) ....mp3's of any compression IMO obscure detail, destroy the soul of the music through loss of all important bits. A simple experiment for you would be to listen to that same track as a CDA or ripped wav and then compare that with the CBR mp3. I think you'll notice a huge difference in SQ straight away.

 Speaking of FLAC.....I lost my entire library from a power failure (fried a HDD in a RAID 0 array, no matter what I did I could not get that array functional again....) over the weekend.....talk about a bummer. I'll be ripping CD's for next 3+ weeks to get back up to speed. EAC isn't fast but it's worth the effort.

 'Copter.....use EAC (Exact Audio Copy) to rip your cd library to FLAC. It's a two part process (the raw wav to FLAC done on the fly). You need to setup EAC to do this...the help files make that easy though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Peete.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Helicopter:

 Agreed (Les).......you need to feed the DAC/AMP with CD quality (either through full wav or lossless as Les suggests) ....mp3's of any compression IMO obscure detail, destroy the soul of the music through loss of all important bits. A simple experiment for you would be to listen to that same track as a CDA or ripped wav and then compare that with the CBR mp3. I think you'll notice a huge difference in SQ straight away.

 Speaking of FLAC.....I lost my entire library from a power failure (fried a HDD in a RAID 0 array, no matter what I did I could not get that array functional again....) over the weekend.....talk about a bummer. I'll be ripping CD's for next 3+ weeks to get back up to speed. EAC isn't fast but it's worth the effort.

 'Copter.....use EAC (Exact Audio Copy) to rip your cd library to FLAC. It's a two part process (the raw wav to FLAC done on the fly). You need to setup EAC to do this...the help files make that easy though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

2 words peete - BACK UP!!!

 Learned this the HARD way several times - now keep full backups of everything. If it's big, I just buy a second same size HD and mirror it. Once I even lost my backup while restoring, but that's something you can't plan for I think... I've only got so much money after all! Yeah, I guess the CDs could be considered the backups, but eff that! Not after how long it took to rip everything!!!


----------



## BigTony

I hold 2 copies on my music files on 2 seperate HDD (1 internal and one NAS) as i'd hate to re-rip 2300 cd's!! A 1TB hdd is pretty cheap, and if 1 fried, i'll replace and copy.


----------



## Ash

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No soldering necessary (at least it shouldn't be - mine came very lightly damaged but they've since corrected this - and gave me a discount even though I was able to fix it myself) -- strictly plug and play.

 Check the sigs on any of AudioPhewls posts (he posted a few times in the last page or two) for a link to Audio-GD, where you should get the HDAM. You will need to choose between the Earth, Sun and Moon. The general concensous here is that the Earth is the most neutral (and as such the most liked here), the Sun is a bit too forward and bright, and the moon is newer, perhaps warmer and more "tube-like". Personally, I like the Sun (giving it another chance now) with my Senns because it makes them a touch less dark - there's still a small part of me that misses my Grado's. But honestly you can't go wrong with any of them. Any of the 3 will beat the pants off any opamp I've heard._

 

I miss my Grados too. I am very close to going back by adding a pair of 225s to my collection.
 Thanks for the link. I want to try the Moon but I will be adding a tube amp to my Zero in the near future anyway.
 Now what I need to order is: 1) OPA-EARTH Dual OPA 2)Extension lead of the OPA.
 Do I need anything else from Audio-gd for this mod?
 Thanks for you patience!!


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No soldering necessary (at least it shouldn't be - mine came very lightly damaged but they've since corrected this - and gave me a discount even though I was able to fix it myself) -- strictly plug and play.

 Check the sigs on any of AudioPhewls posts (he posted a few times in the last page or two) for a link to Audio-GD, where you should get the HDAM. You will need to choose between the Earth, Sun and Moon. The general concensous here is that the Earth is the most neutral (and as such the most liked here), the Sun is a bit too forward and bright, and the moon is newer, perhaps warmer and more "tube-like". Personally, I like the Sun (giving it another chance now) with my Senns because it makes them a touch less dark - there's still a small part of me that misses my Grado's. But honestly you can't go wrong with any of them. Any of the 3 will beat the pants off any opamp I've heard._

 






 ~Phewl.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_2 words peete - BACK UP!!!

 Learned this the HARD way several times - now keep full backups of everything. If it's big, I just buy a second same size HD and mirror it. Once I even lost my backup while restoring, but that's something you can't plan for I think... I've only got so much money after all! Yeah, I guess the CDs could be considered the backups, but eff that! Not after how long it took to rip everything!!!_

 

Poor PP thought he was Back'd up with his RAID array. I have 5 TB's of Data. When the new 1.5TB discs got so cheap, I was going to RAID it on (8) 1.5 TB drives in a NAS Server, but the performance and reliability of these drives is so bad, I'm having to wait. 

 PP, just curious, what were you using to RAID with? Hardware or software?


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ash* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I miss my Grados too. I am very close to going back by adding a pair of 225s to my collection.
 Thanks for the link. I want to try the Moon but I will be adding a tube amp to my Zero in the near future anyway.
 Now what I need to order is: 1) OPA-EARTH Dual OPA 2)Extension lead of the OPA.
 Do I need anything else from Audio-gd for this mod?
 Thanks for you patience!!_

 

Nope that's all you'll need - 1 HDAM and 1 lead. Make sure to specify that you want the lead that can be detached and not the kind that is soldered on. My first was the one where the lead was soldered on and that is where the damage was - I had to re-solder the tiny connections of all the lead wires... he claims he now only sends the detachable one, but I'd ask for it just the same.

 Although I do miss my Grado's when I had them and A/B'd with the Senns it was no contest... not though I miss the way guitars sounded on them... but now I'm thinking of trying some Beyer DT880's - or maybe the AKG701, but I hear they aren't great with rock. I want a great rock can with perhaps a bit more bass than my 225s offered.... but that's really here nor there, I shouldn't be buying anything! Haa - friggin head-fi


----------



## helicopter34234

Quote:


 Ain't a real easy way to put this but I'll try. You're listening to CRAP. I'm sure the LD is resolving the CRAP in a little better detail than the Zero, but maybe not. I don't have a LD II. I do have a LD V and it does some better than the Zero. 
 

Sorry that I didn't make it clear in my original post but I am listening to lossless files. I meant that V7 was transparent to me (when ABX'ed with the lossless version) on both the zero HP amp and the MKII. I also ABX'ed the Zero HP amp and the MKII with lossless songs and I could not discern a difference between the amps. I tried a bunch of songs including ones from the ultrasome cd (binuarial recordings) and couldn't catch the difference. I tried listening to snare drums, vocals, cymbals, couldn't really hear a difference.

 Also, see my thread http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f11/i-...-hi-fi-393585/


----------



## DaLiu

One friend of mine bought the upgraded Zero DAC from CHAN LAWRENCE but he told me there are some problems, he got low volume when he is tryin to use the DAC as preamp for his headphone, basically he connect the DAC using optical cable but he got low volume and quite noizy, do you know what could be the problem?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *helicopter34234* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry that I didn't make it clear in my original post but I am listening to lossless files. I meant that V7 was transparent to me (when ABX'ed with the lossless version) on both the zero HP amp and the MKII. I also ABX'ed the Zero HP amp and the MKII with lossless songs and I could not discern a difference between the amps. I tried a bunch of songs including ones from the ultrasome cd (binuarial recordings) and couldn't catch the difference. I tried listening to snare drums, vocals, cymbals, couldn't really hear a difference.

 Also, see my thread http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f11/i-...-hi-fi-393585/_

 

"""because Lame V7 mp3 is pretty much transparent to me and I really really have to struggle to hear any artifacts whatsoever in CBR 112 Kbps""""

 Then what did you mean by CBR 112 Kbps??? 

 My FLAC files usually run around 680-750 Kbps??? 

 I'm still not following you.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nope that's all you'll need - 1 HDAM and 1 lead. Make sure to specify that you want the lead that can be detached and not the kind that is soldered on. My first was the one where the lead was soldered on and that is where the damage was - I had to re-solder the tiny connections of all the lead wires... he claims he now only sends the detachable one, but I'd ask for it just the same.

 Although I do miss my Grado's when I had them and A/B'd with the Senns it was no contest... not though I miss the way guitars sounded on them... but now I'm thinking of trying some Beyer DT880's - or maybe the AKG701, but I hear they aren't great with rock. I want a great rock can with perhaps a bit more bass than my 225s offered.... but that's really here nor there, I shouldn't be buying anything! Haa - friggin head-fi_

 

Also needs to be the Dual HDAM and not the Single HDAM, FYI


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_"""because Lame V7 mp3 is pretty much transparent to me and I really really have to struggle to hear any artifacts whatsoever in CBR 112 Kbps""""

 Then what did you mean by CBR 112 Kbps??? 

 My FLAC files usually run around 680-750 Kbps??? 

 I'm still not following you._

 

He just means that although he normally uses FLAC, he can't really even distinguish them from lame v7 or cbr 112 files (probably as low as he goes). he's just trying to point out that no matter what he tries, he doesn't seem to have an "ear" for hi-fi, and as many others have said - more power to ya. If you enjoy the music, then just enjoy it... then again, SOMEthing made you think there was more out there. But if you can't hear it, then you're just wasting $$.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also needs to be the Dual HDAM and not the Single HDAM, FYI_

 

He said "dual opa earth" in his original post.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_He just means that although he normally uses FLAC, he can't really even distinguish them from lame v7 or cbr 112 files (probably as low as he goes). he's just trying to point out that no matter what he tries, he doesn't seem to have an "ear" for hi-fi, and as many others have said - more power to ya. If you enjoy the music, then just enjoy it... then again, SOMEthing made you think there was more out there. But if you can't hear it, then you're just wasting $$._

 

I re-read the post and am still missing the FLAC part he was comparing to, but I'll defer to your translation. I just missed it. 

 Hellicopter: my 2 cents--
 "Listening" to music is a taught or learned skill. I don't believe anybody is really born with it. Some people can teach you some things. You can self teach and learn on your own. A lot of it boils down to detail and resolution. 

 One more thing I might add, the source material is very important. I've never used Dire Straights as an Eval tune. There may be some cuts on some pressings that are done well, but my experience is most are arranged and recorded so poor as to render them useless for any serious evaluation. I often look at what others use when they do an eval and use those tracks to see if I can here the same resolution or detail they are noticing. 

 Often this means that I listen to music that I normally would not, were I not trying to do an Evaluation. Paul Simon's Graceland UltraDisc, not my choice for listening, but a Nice Eval set for some details of voice and percussion. If I were not listening to it for eval, it would always be dusty.

 Some of it boils down to which one makes you move to the music or tap your toe. I can take two sets of phones and be difficult to put my finger on why one sounds better to me, but I notice that one makes me sing along or just plain smile. That AMP/Phone/OpAmp, whatever is just doing something musical to me. I may try to pick up where in the track is different but just can't put my finger on it. I just know I like one a lot better than the other, or maybe a little better than the other, whatever. Now I can rank them from my own perception.

 In the long run, it's like Cheryl says, "If it makes you happy". That's all it's really about.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I re-read the post and am still missing the FLAC part he was comparing to, but I'll defer to your translation. I just missed it. 

 [snip]
 "If it makes you happy". That's all it's really about._

 

Yeah I may have gotten that extra detail from reading his other (linked) post. Either way I can't decide if I'm jealous or glad it isn't me... will have to get back to you on that.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Poor PP thought he was Back'd up with his RAID array. I have 5 TB's of Data. When the new 1.5TB discs got so cheap, I was going to RAID it on (8) 1.5 TB drives in a NAS Server, but the performance and reliability of these drives is so bad, I'm having to wait. 

 PP, just curious, what were you using to RAID with? Hardware or software?_

 

Oh no I knew I wasn't getting data parity.....dumb move on my part. I am looking at an external drive(s) right now for full back up (once I get my library ripped ). Rather than sinking the extra $$ needed for 2 more drives (when I upgraded the entire system last year) I spent that on a better Vid card (ATI 3870 512MB). I'm paying for that decision now although I had a spare 500 gig Seagate sitting around (now pressed into service as the primary drive) for the last 3 months.

 In any event I've learned a painful lesson for sure........a 1 TB back up is on it's way. 

 The bright side ? A clean fast system.........
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Peete.


----------



## helicopter34234

Yea, what Scottie said. I wasn't totally clear at first but I meant that both V7 and CBR 112 are indistinguishable from lossless for me.

 Yea, I think I am going to sell the amp. I bought it to rule out the possibility that I was serioulsy missing out in some area of performance of my DT770's but I really couldn't notice anything. Maybe if I tried harder I would notice something, but I am starting to realize, what is the point of searching so hard to justify a purchase (I am know I will get flamed for that comment, jk).


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *helicopter34234* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yea, what Scottie said. I wasn't totally clear at first but I meant that both V7 and CBR 112 are indistinguishable from lossless for me.

 Yea, I think I am going to sell the amp. I bought it to rule out the possibility that I was serioulsy missing out in some area of performance of my DT770's but I really couldn't notice anything. Maybe if I tried harder I would notice something, but I am starting to realize, what is the point of searching so hard to justify a purchase (I am know I will get flamed for that comment, jk)._

 

Are you sure you have it configured correctly ? It's quite easy to pick out the simple difference between bit perfect vs on board SC and whether or not it's being resampled by the on board audio's drivers.

 How exactly have you setup the link between the computer and the Zero....this connection can make or break what level of SQ you get out of the head phones IMO.

 Another very simple test to make sure your comp source is measuring up is to take a stand alone CDP or DVD player and feed the Zero with it's digital output and compare the 2. If the latter is better you have comp source issues. A decent quality CDP/DVD player is required since each of those may or may not have a great digital out. Generally speaking the computer is a great source and is mostly regarded as the best transport (although that is debatable IMO).

 In any event...don't give up on audio, that makes little sense to me...acquire experience through live shows to give yourself a reference point or an idea of one in which to base your listening sessions on. It takes time to gain this experience so don't get discouraged....

 Peete.


----------



## helicopter34234

I link from my computer to the Zero through Xitel usb->optical adapter that came with the Zero. I tried optical and coax out of my moutherboard soundcard but noticed some static. Coud the Xitel be my weak link? I used to Kernel Stream in Foobar but it doesn't seem to work with the Xitel. From what I gather, this doesn't matter as long as you don't have other porgrams trying to play sound in windows.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *helicopter34234* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I link from my computer to the Zero through Xitel usb->optical adapter that came with the Zero. I tried optical and coax out of my moutherboard soundcard but noticed some static. Coud the Xitel be my weak link? I used to Kernel Stream in Foobar but it doesn't seem to work with the Xitel. From what I gather, this doesn't matter as long as you don't have other porgrams trying to play sound in windows._

 

I am almost certain you are not getting a pure untouched signal and this could explain why your having trouble differentiating between bit rates/file types etc...

 Take a familiar CD and a regular CD/DVD player with COAX out and compare the sound of that CD vs playing the same CD through your computer based transport......you should be able to notice the difference immediately (if my hunch is correct that your current computer setup is the issue for the reduced SQ).

 See if you can borrow a CD/DVDP if you don't have one of your own for this experiment.

 If this experiment does expose the suspected weak link the solution is to buy a good sound card that can output a bit perfect SPDIF signal (COAX is best followed by Optical ) using a native or third party ASIO driver.

 All of this is IMO of course 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## ScottieB

Well, call me crazy, but after all this, I'm really liking the Opa Sun with my M8161 and Senn HD600. I think it gives everything that little extra punch and brightness that I liked from the Grados (my first good headphones) without being overly so (which is what made me trade in the Grados). Just makes the Senns a little more lively, which I guess I like.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, call me crazy, but after all this, I'm really liking the Opa Sun with my M8161 and Senn HD600. I think it gives everything that little extra punch and brightness that I liked from the Grados (my first good headphones) without being overly so (which is what made me trade in the Grados). Just makes the Senns a little more lively, which I guess I like._

 

Hi Scottie...is that the V2 SUN module ? I haven't gotten around to trying out the V2's I have yet.

 That would make sense I think with the HD600's, they are lighter in the bass region than the 650's. 

 In any event as long as you like it that's all that really matters 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## ScottieB

Actually no it's the original one. I tried it first (got the Earth and Sun at same time during the original deal) and liked it a lot. Then moved to the Earth and liked that. And then moon and liked that. I had been meaning to try the Sun again but it meant re-soldering the lead - my old job held but the other contacts came apart - I just re-did them all. Maybe I just like variety and in a few weeks I'll be compelled to switch again but for now I'm really having fun with this.


----------



## goorackerelite

I've been listening to my Zero with ad627s hooked up to my Little Dot mk3 and my HD650s, my ears bleed after each listening session. I don't listen any louder than 70 DB at any given time. Is there a mod that I can use to make the Zero less harsh to my ears? I'm suspecting it's the Zero's fault anyway. All components have been burned in for at least 100 hours too. This dosn't make any sense to me, help any one?


----------



## bundee1

switch opamps?


----------



## goorackerelite

yeah I got a moon HDAM on order, l hope that'll help smooth out the sound a bit.


----------



## ccschua

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Scottie...is that the V2 SUN module ? I haven't gotten around to trying out the V2's I have yet.

 That would make sense I think with the HD600's, they are lighter in the bass region than the 650's. 

 In any event as long as you like it that's all that really matters 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

When I first listen to Sun V1, I dont like it. After I listen to Sun V2, I really like it a lot. The vocal is more forward, the guitar plucking is more energetic, the bass beats are deeper and the acoustics last longer.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ccschua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When I first listen to Sun V1, I dont like it. After I listen to Sun V2, I really like it a lot. The vocal is more forward, the guitar plucking is more energetic, the bass beats are deeper and the acoustics last longer._

 

Yes that's exactly how I feel about the Sun V1... pretty much exactly what I meant when I said it gave my Senns's a touch of that Grado sound. I'm liking it a lot.


----------



## seaice

My personal ideal matches are:

 Zero (OPA Moon) > LD MKV > AKG K701
 Zero (OPA Earth) > LD MKV > Senn 580, 600 (Cardas cable)

 (Both OPAs are around 300 hours burned.)

 What is the opa Sun v2 (in the DAC Zero section) concerned, I didnt find it a good match with any of my headphones. Maybe it is not burned enough (abour 80 hours), I do not know.


----------



## jujulio

That's it, i got my ZERO from lawrence with upgraded volume pot HDAM and LT1364. I got it in the lapse of 10 days from the date of the purchase, it was nicely packed and it didn't sustain any damage (didn't check the soldering yet, but i cant here any hiss right now). Will let you know how it performs after some burn in, i need to apply the Franken mod now


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *seaice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My personal ideal matches are:

 Zero (OPA Moon) > LD MKV > AKG K701
 Zero (OPA Earth) > LD MKV > Senn 580, 600 (Cardas cable)

 (Both OPAs are around 300 hours burned.)

 What is the opa Sun v2 (in the DAC Zero section) concerned, I didnt find it a good match with any of my headphones. Maybe it is not burned enough (abour 80 hours), I do not know._

 

Yeah I'm honestly thinking this is totally just a preference thing - those who may lean toward brighter music and/or headphones, or who really love upper mid "detail" and resonance would prefer the Sun - to my ears I didn't hear a huge difference between the Earth and Moon, but I'm thinking I like the Sun because of A - my "dark" headphones and B - the fact that I'm going to a tube amp with rather warm tubes - to me the Sun just brings out a little extra in the places I kinda was missing from my Grados.


----------



## shadowlord

could please someone explain the "franken-mod" to me so that i don't need to look trough the 855 pages of this thread ?


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shadowlord* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_could please someone explain the "franken-mod" to me so that i don't need to look trough the 855 pages of this thread ?_

 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/fra...-heart-370985/


----------



## Emanuel

Hi,
 I've got some problems with the zero..Ive changed the two 330uf caps on top of the four decoupling caps with 470uf oscon, and also applied the bypass at all these caps. Now my problem is that right channel turn down on volume, not so much, but clearly noticeable. What should have happened? Bad contacts or soldering? (the one on decoupling caps are very bad, but were working before, maybe get worse) Maybe Ive lost some contacts in the upper side of the pcb?
 If someone can help, Ill be very grateful!!

 Ps: Ive found that the right channel have a different hiss, more loud, and if I touch the second decoupling caps on the left, I heard like an interference, a mass problem maybe.


----------



## helicopter34234

Quote:


 I am almost certain you are not getting a pure untouched signal and this could explain why your having trouble differentiating between bit rates/file types etc... 
 

How bad is the Xitel, can you really notice a difference between it and a bit perfect transport? 
 What kind of artifacts would it be adding to the music? I have a Realtek HD Audio Soundcard built into my Gigabyte motherboard with coax and optical outputs which can KS in foobar. That should be bit-perfect if I am kernel streaming right? I verified that windows volume settings do not change the volume. I had switched to using the Xitel (from the Realtek) because every once and a while I would get "garbling" or almost static if I moved to different locations in a track that would slowly work its way out.

 I will try to my system out on my dad's expensive dvd player this weekend.

 I think I might be able to discern a difference when using the amp, not something that is immediately obvious but may just be more enjoyable to listen to, as if you aren't conciously perceived the difference in quality but you subconciously enjoying it.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *helicopter34234* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How bad is the Xitel, can you really notice a difference between it and a bit perfect transport? 
 What kind of artifacts would it be adding to the music? I have a Realtek HD Audio Soundcard built into my Gigabyte motherboard with coax and optical outputs which can KS in foobar. That should be bit-perfect if I am kernel streaming right? I verified that windows volume settings do not change the volume. I had switched to using the Xitel (from the Realtek) because every once and a while I would get "garbling" or almost static if I moved to different locations in a track that would slowly work its way out.

 I will try to my system out on my dad's expensive dvd player this weekend.

 I think I might be able to discern a difference when using the amp, not something that is immediately obvious but may just be more enjoyable to listen to, as if you aren't conciously perceived the difference in quality but you subconciously enjoying it._

 

I think once you try your Dad's DVD player the difference will be immediately noticeable. Once the signal is subjected to noisy EMI/RFI bombarded environment the level of hash introduced to the base signal (the static pops you noticed while Kernel Streaming is a prime example) really obscures a lot of detail...resolution drops ...you loose info. It's the same as comparing a mp3 to a full resolution wav on a DVD player capable of playing pack both formats...it's noticeable right away or at least it should be. The way XP handles audio isn't the greatest either...one reason why ASIO is so popular. Vista has corrected this shortcoming but that's no reason IMO to switch to that bloated bugware....(OK OK I know at least 5 of you actually like Vista...no offence OK 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










)

 You could also try that type of test on your Dad's DVDP if it will play MP3's back...simply compare a full resolution CDA file to a copy of the same track in mp3 format at 128 kb/s data rate.

 Until I bought my Auzen Prelude, my mobo's SC digital coax out was not up to the job....that's on a Asus Maximus Formula deluxe (2007 X38 Intel) with the latest so called HD Sound card (a separate one to boot...the SupremeFX II) It's a POS compared to the Auzen in every respect you care to name...that surprised me somewhat. I used the PCI slot furthest away from the SB chip to install the Auzen SC in and added a aluminum shield around it for further protection from the computers noisy environment....the signal I get is noise and hiss free...pure velvety blackness.never a pop tick,static noise of any kind. Although it's relegated to transport duties it does that job well (equal fidelity at the very least to any DVD/CDP I own)...I would imagine a Lynx card may best the Auzen but not by much.

 USB is problematic for trying to get the best fidelity from a PC because of the obvious limitations presented by that method. Add in a cheap converter and you are no better off than before with the pops and ticks and hash....all IMHO of course Others mileage may vary.

 I still think your not getting what is possible from your combo...try out the DVD player over the weekend...have a great holiday visit with family and friends and report back your findings on Monday or Tuesday next week. If you still don't notice a difference in SQ then I will eat my shorts. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just kidding.....cotton gives me hives ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Have a Merry Christmas BTW 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Emanuel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,
 I've got some problems with the zero..Ive changed the two 330uf caps on top of the four decoupling caps with 470uf oscon, and also applied the bypass at all these caps. Now my problem is that right channel turn down on volume, not so much, but clearly noticeable. What should have happened? Bad contacts or soldering? (the one on decoupling caps are very bad, but were working before, maybe get worse) Maybe Ive lost some contacts in the upper side of the pcb?
 If someone can help, Ill be very grateful!!

 Ps: Ive found that the right channel have a different hiss, more loud, and if I touch the second decoupling caps on the left, I heard like an interference, a mass problem maybe._

 

Are you sure you have the polarity correct on the caps you installed ? Double check that and the solder points of those on both sides of the pcb.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually no it's the original one. I tried it first (got the Earth and Sun at same time during the original deal) and liked it a lot. Then moved to the Earth and liked that. And then moon and liked that. I had been meaning to try the Sun again but it meant re-soldering the lead - my old job held but the other contacts came apart - I just re-did them all. Maybe I just like variety and in a few weeks I'll be compelled to switch again but for now I'm really having fun with this. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It's like tube rolling...keeps things interesting. 

 Peete.


----------



## Archimago

Wow, been awhile since checking on this thread - great to see it's still strong!

 Quick Q's:
 1. Before I take out the snippers and cut off the 2 caps around the output RCA jacks to improve the highs (as per Lampizator site) - other than complaints about Grados (which I don't have), anyone else complain about this mod? Definately want to try this if it doesn't accentuate highs abnormally...


 2. Is it consensus that HDAM-Earth is superior to dual OPA627's?

 Thanks and Merry Christmas all...


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Archimago* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, been awhile since checking on this thread - great to see it's still strong!

 Quick Q's:
 1. Before I take out the snippers and cut off the 2 caps around the output RCA jacks to improve the highs (as per Lampizator site) - other than complaints about Grados (which I don't have), anyone else complain about this mod? Definately want to try this if it doesn't accentuate highs abnormally...


 2. Is it consensus that HDAM-Earth is superior to dual OPA627's?

 Thanks and Merry Christmas all..._

 

1 - Not that I've heard

 2 - Seems to be, yeah.


----------



## helicopter34234

Thanks Pricklely Peete for the thorough response. Unfortunately I won't be seeing my parents again for a couple of weeks. We had an early Christmas there last week (that's how I got the MKII) because I am going to my girlfriends parents for Christmas. Also, I have already sold the MKII so it looks like I won't be able to do the test. I just don't think I have the ears for this sport. I had my non-audiophile friend over tonight so I had him tell me which sounded better while I switched back and forth between amps without him seeing which was plugged in. He said the MKII just sounded clearer than the Zero HP out but it was very subtle. I have tried switching back and forth myself for several hours tonight on many many different songs and still can't really notice any difference. I tried this with the mobo soundcard coax and the Xitel optical. The mobo soundcard sounds fine (not really any popping hissing) unless you try to jump somewhere midsong, otherwise it sounded pretty good. I honestly don't really even hear much of a SQ improvement on going from my soundcard jack to the Zero, and others have definitely attested that they hear a big difference on this jump, even with the cheap Xitel. I guess some people (including myself) just aren't capable of appreciating SQ improvement beyond a certain level. I definitely noticed improvements on upgrading my headphones, but beyond that, not so much.

 Sorry I couldn't do the test, I'm sure it would have benefited other members considering buying an amp. If you are considering getting an amp, don't let my experience change your mind, test for yourself.

 Besides, if the test did show that I could hear a difference coming out of a good transport, then I would have to buy a good transport another >$150. I think I will just go through with the sale of the amp and maybe some day consider getting one again. Besides the Zero HP amp is no slouch, it sounds pretty darn good as is. Definitely enough for me to enjoy my music, which I will be doing instead of worrying about hearing upgrades. My next purchase might be a better transport though. So basically the problem with the Xitel is that it resamples and that it might have bad jitter (even though I don't really hear anything wrong with it). Would any card that supports ASIO with coax output work, even really cheepo cards? I saw some good deals on refurbished creative audio cards including the emu 0404 for $60. Would the emu be a good transport (even though its usb). Are any of these other cards good? 
Creative Labs Refurb Sale - SlickDeals.net Forums


----------



## Currawong

My take on the HDAMs was that the main difference appeared to be the soundstage (whether that is a function of a slightly different EQ or not I'm not entirely sure, but is quite possible) with smallest to largest going Sun < Earth < Moon. My reference tune was Jeff Buckley singing live, with him being more up-front with the Sun, and least so with the Moon.

 With the HDAMs, give them 350 hours to burn in. The caps and transistors need it.

 Another thing, I see a lot of people asking repeatedly about opamps already tested in the very first post of this thread! I can understand though it takes a while to get used to all the different names of them. I started learning about them from this thread, just like many other people are.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shadowlord* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_could please someone explain the "franken-mod" to me so that i don't need to look trough the 855 pages of this thread ?_

 

Try here:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/fra...-heart-370985/


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *helicopter34234* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Besides, if the test did show that I could hear a difference coming out of a good transport, then I would have to buy a good transport another >$150. I think I will just go through with the sale of the amp and maybe some day consider getting one again. Besides the Zero HP amp is no slouch, it sounds pretty darn good as is. Definitely enough for me to enjoy my music, which I will be doing instead of worrying about hearing upgrades. My next purchase might be a better transport though. So basically the problem with the Xitel is that it resamples and that it might have bad jitter (even though I don't really hear anything wrong with it). Would any card that supports ASIO with coax output work, even really cheepo cards? I saw some good deals on refurbished creative audio cards including the emu 0404 for $60. Would the emu be a good transport (even though its usb). Are any of these other cards good? 
Creative Labs Refurb Sale - SlickDeals.net Forums_

 

I thought, and still think, the HP amp is in the Zero is very listen-able, even with a lot of other expensive gear around. 0404s are quite popular here as a transport. 

 The whole "what sounds better" issue is a funny one. If you put the average joe in front of a hi-fi system, he might get a shock hearing music he knows well so clearly. It's rather like this Stax rig I just got -- it's so clear and detailed, yet that kind of delivery just doesn't suit a lot of music. For the average joe, more bass might sound better, so between a cheap and expensive system, he'd pick the cheap one, because it was more what he is used to. I can say in my case the only reason I changed DACs was because of choral and orchestral music, which simply sounds awesome through expensive gear. Some of the pop music I like in comparison is so awfully recorded that it only gets played through the car radio, where I don't have to be frustrated at how the recording engineers mixed in some poorly recorded instruments or samples. I've always maintained that if I'd bought the Zero before everything else, I'd probably still be happy with the headphones I've had for 15+ years and I wouldn't have bothered with the rest.


----------



## Kurotetsu

The LT1364 opamps came in (such great timing, a Christmas gift from Linear Tech?). Swapping out the old ones with the new ones was surprisingly very easy. I expected them to be jammed in their pretty good, but they slipped right out using a 2mm flathead. 

 The first thing I notice under the new ones is an increase in clarity and detail. The sound is less muddy compared to the old ones I think (hopefully its not just placebo). I only just put them less than twenty minutes ago upon writing this email, so I'll have to give them more time to break in. As of right now, I'm pleased with the swap. A definite improvement.

 Now, I have one question unrelated to the opamps. As I was messing around on the inside, I noticed that one of the 4 big black blocks in the headamp/preamp section seemed a bit loose. It is the block on the left hand side when the Zero's front is facing you. When I say 'loose' I mean in comparison to the other three. When I tried to very gently wriggle the other three, they barely budged if at all, while the fourth one moved without much effort. Is this a concern?


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My take on the HDAMs was that the main difference appeared to be the soundstage (whether that is a function of a slightly different EQ or not I'm not entirely sure, but is quite possible) with smallest to largest going Sun < Earth < Moon. My reference tune was Jeff Buckley singing live, with him being more up-front with the Sun, and least so with the Moon.

 With the HDAMs, give them 350 hours to burn in. The caps and transistors need it.
_

 

This fits perfectly with what I've found as well. I know my HDAMS have been well burned in, too, so the changes should all be "final." I'm thinking I just prefer a smaller soundstage/more forward presentation (which may make sense in the real world too - I like sitting up front at movies and concerts - even orchestral). The whole concept of soundstage is a bit of a mystery to me - I've heard all the explanations and such, but as far as what is more desirable or pleasing, I've yet to draw a conclusion. I try to avoid using it to describe things because a full understanding of it escapes me. 

 But based on your description of the soundstages of the 3 hdams, it makes sense - and I guess it means I like a smaller soundstage with vocals more "up front". Just as much though, I feel like the Sun gives me more detail from my Sennheisers - more of the attack and reverb of a guitar or bass string that I felt I'd lost when i sold my Grados. I also feel like I can pick out the drums more easily (I'ma drummer at heart) which is a lot of fun for me. I really enjoy this stuff - and to my ear it is what instantly calls out lossless vs mp3 or even hi-res audio vs CD audio. 

 Again, this is a preference thing, I just wanted to bring up that I am enjoying the Sun, since it seemed to be mostly written off quite some time ago. The consensus here seems to be that most prefer the Earth and Moon, so I just wanted to throw in that coming back to the Sun has been very enjoyable for me - and to nail down why so that new peeps can make the best decisions for themselves.


----------



## ads2

Hello,
 it seems that I have seen (but I don't remember where..) that when modding the zero it's better to remove 2 caps to avoids too much treble.
 Can, someone confirm me this ?


----------



## ads2

well, I have finally found the page that tal about the capacitors here Introduction to the Zero DAC and Headphone amplifier. - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio
 So should I or not remove these caps ? any advice are welcolme.
 thanks


----------



## BigTony

It depends on your preference, the mod will increase treble, so if you have very bright cans you might find this mod not to your taste.
 If you just clip the leg, you can easily put the cap back. I removed the caps in my zero right away, loved it .

 Also, x2 votes for Sun HDAM, i might never get to hear my moon beforr my new DAC turns up, i can't seem to bring myself to take Sun out!


----------



## Emanuel

Hi, I need some technical help from you guys..
 Ive been trying to fix a problem with false contact in the decoupling caps area, and messing around with one of them, Ive touched with one leg the heathsink of a voltage regulator wich is under it (I did it with when the dac was running).
 I think of a short circuit that burned something, maybe the voltage regulator (lm317) or maybe something else, because the sound now is so low that I can barely hear something at full volume of my amp. My uncle, which is an electrical technician, told me that a schematic will help to find out what could have happened, and if other components have burned. If someone can give me some tips about, even suppositions, or know if a schematic of the zero exists, please tell me!
 Thanks a lot!


----------



## arfett

I realized my zero does NOT have the pin that is circled in the picture. Is that just there for support or does that pin actually do something?


----------



## goorackerelite

according to the Lampizator site, the Headphoneamp stage is always in use. Is this true? I kind of believe it because when I switch the headphone amp on it sounds exactly the same as if it's switched off while going out to the RCAs. 

 I'm looking to bypass that all together. and use Just the Dac section of the ZERO. Can anyone confirm this?


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *goorackerelite* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_according to the Lampizator site, the Headphoneamp stage is always in use. Is this true? I kind of believe it because when I switch the headphone amp on it sounds exactly the same as if it's switched off while going out to the RCAs. 

 I'm looking to bypass that all together. and use Just the Dac section of the ZERO. Can anyone confirm this?_

 

Just disconnect the headamp board since you have no use for it, presto, DAC only.


----------



## goorackerelite

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just disconnect the headamp board since you have no use for it, presto, DAC only._

 

SOrry I'm technically challenged, can you tell me where the Headphone amp section is located at?


----------



## goorackerelite

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ads2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well, I have finally found the page that tal about the capacitors here Introduction to the Zero DAC and Headphone amplifier. - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio
 So should I or not remove these caps ? any advice are welcolme.
 thanks_

 

I think those caps are there as prophylactics for your ears, lending you to less listening fatigue over the period of few hours. Some people are really sensitive to treble and might want to keep them on, or if you have really bright headphones from Grado, Beyer, or AKG.


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *goorackerelite* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_SOrry I'm technically challenged, can you tell me where the Headphone amp section is located at?_

 

Sure:




 The main (big) board is the DAC, the little one where the headphone connects and where the volume pot is located is the headamp/pre-amp board, I've put a red square around it for added visual help.

 Just disconnect the cables that link that board to the main (DAC) one.


----------



## ads2

Thanks for your reply, I have finally cut these caps legs on the RCA ouput part.
 I have a little more treble, but If I feel little fatigue I will solder them again.


----------



## davidw89

Is it worth waiting for:
ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1
 THe DAC Compass, is this an alternative? Will it also do 24 BIT/192KHz?


----------



## Currawong

davidw89: See the discussion in the compass thread.


----------



## goorackerelite

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sure:




 The main (big) board is the DAC, the little one where the headphone connects and where the volume pot is located is the headamp/pre-amp board, I've put a red square around it for added visual help.

 Just disconnect the cables that link that board to the main (DAC) one._

 

Thank you very much for the picture and the explanation. 
 I've got around to doing it. People on Head-fi are just awesome!!! 

 P.S. I just got my Hdam Moon installed and currently cooking it, sounds smooth and coherent, you can hear where the sound start and ends alot more distinctly and smoother. with the OPA627, the sound would hit a brick wall at times, but with the Hdam in place, it just pushes through that brickwall and drives the dynamics and details with much better realism and subtlety. This DAC is starting to get really interesting.!!!

 I can't believe that it's gonna sound better as time goes on, it's already perfect in my book. 

 CHeeers


----------



## peters

Hi Guys,

 First time poster, long time reader. Ordered by OPA627 Zero Dac from wsz0304 which arrived today. One thing I want to ask, is after leaving it on for about 30 minutes or so the unit seems to get very hot. I'm using it in Australia where the native voltage is 240V, I noticed the unit is rated up to 220V - will this be an issue ? The unit gets up to about 50c (120F) after 30mins or so... makes me a little hesitant to leave it on overnight for a burn-in...


----------



## Currawong

G'day Peters,

 I put my Little Dot MKV amp on top of the Zero back when it was my main amp, and the MKV got quite warm from the Zero! Its the voltage regulators that cook up some heat, nothing to worry about though.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *peters* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Guys,

 First time poster, long time reader. Ordered by OPA627 Zero Dac from wsz0304 which arrived today. One thing I want to ask, is after leaving it on for about 30 minutes or so the unit seems to get very hot. I'm using it in Australia where the native voltage is 240V, I noticed the unit is rated up to 220V - will this be an issue ? The unit gets up to about 50c (120F) after 30mins or so... makes me a little hesitant to leave it on overnight for a burn-in..._

 

I believe the old versions didn't have as much ventilation if you can believe that? You should notice the most heat up front near the vents, in that quarter of the unit. The head amp makes a lot of heat. If you decide not to use the headamp, you may want to dc it.


----------



## peters

Thanks guys


----------



## shadowlord

i drilled a 60mm hole in the top of mine right above the headamp transistors. it helps a lot keeping the unit cool especially since i now use a hdam module to. i placed a fan grill over the hole so it doesn't look that awkward.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shadowlord* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i drilled a 60mm hole in the top of mine right above the headamp transistors. it helps a lot keeping the unit cool especially since i now use a hdam module to. i placed a fan grill over the hole so it doesn't look that awkward._

 


 60mm!! That's quite a hole you have there my friend!

 Good idea!


----------



## AT0MAC.com

I bought one of these DAC/AMPs one year ago - and now I think it's time to upgrade it.

 Have found a pair of BB OPA627 and need some advice to choose the best DAC chip for use if I say I mostly listen to rock and jazz, so deep and thight bass is a must have.

 Are the LM4562 still the best choise, and the best choise for my music too - or is there anything better to match the OPA627 in The Zero DAC??


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AT0MAC.com* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I bought one of these DAC/AMPs one year ago - and now I think it's time to upgrade it.

 Have found a pair of BB OPA627 and need some advice to choose the best DAC chip for use if I say I mostly listen to rock and jazz, so deep and thight bass is a must have.

 Are the LM4562 still the best choise, and the best choise for my music too - or is there anything better to match the OPA627 in The Zero DAC??_

 

Yes: Audio-GD HDAMs

 Many info on these here, search a but about them, specially the earth module.

 EDIT

 Wait are you asking for the best OPAMPs for the amp section or for the dac? your post is confusing.


----------



## fermentol

Hello,
 I joined the ranks of happy Zero owners yesterday, having bought mine from wsz0304 on ebay. The first thing i did was replace the annoying blue LEDs with green ones (i didn't have any flat-top 2mm LEDs laying around, so i used standard large 5mm).


----------



## epsilon72

I'm taking a long hard look at the zero, but the lack of analog in's concerns me a little. Is there anything of comparable quality/price to the zero that can function as a dac AND has analog in's?

 (If not I may just get the zero and do without them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 )


----------



## K3cT

Is there a possible alternative for the Xitel USB-Optical converter? From a quick research, it seems that Kingwa from Audio-gd is developing such a unit but I cannot find the item in their site. I suppose it's still under development. 

 This is the circuit board of the unit:


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *epsilon72* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm taking a long hard look at the zero, but the lack of analog in's concerns me a little. Is there anything of comparable quality/price to the zero that can function as a dac AND has analog in's?

 (If not I may just get the zero and do without them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )_

 

Of course you know that it is called a Digital to Analog Converter?

 Not an Analog to Analog converter? That sounds redundant doesn't it.



 It sounds like you are looking for an Integrated Head Amp with on board DAC input.

 The difference I point out here is that the Zero has the HeadAmp as a secondary purpose and DAC as the Primary. 

 What you are looking for is a HeadAmp that has the DAC added, if that makes sense the way I am describing that. I believe I've seen gadgets like that. They are Real Integrated Amps, speaker outputs, headphone Jack, and a USB DAC.

 Kind of a Jack of all trades. I've seen these on Ebay.


----------



## epsilon72

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Of course you know that it is called a Digital to Analog Converter?

 Not an Analog to Analog converter? That sounds redundant doesn't it.



 It sounds like you are looking for an Integrated Head Amp with on board DAC input.

 The difference I point out here is that the Zero has the HeadAmp as a secondary purpose and DAC as the Primary. 

 What you are looking for is a HeadAmp that has the DAC added, if that makes sense the way I am describing that. I believe I've seen gadgets like that. They are Real Integrated Amps, speaker outputs, headphone Jack, and a USB DAC.

 Kind of a Jack of all trades. I've seen these on Ebay._

 

That is what I meant, I just didn't think to describe it as an "all in one" thing. I'm still a little new to the headphone amp scene 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I have seen these "jack of all trades" type devices on ebay, (some for around the price of a zero), but am I right in assuming that the zero would perform better than these as far as audio quality goes?


----------



## Currawong

See my sig, we've got someone in China to build something which also has analogue input for HP amp, so you can bypass the DAC entirely. It's not as cheap as the Zero though, but we hope will be considerably better.


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

The cruel energy can't stay the actor.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Question about this amp:

 Is it normal to have sound 'leaking' through? When I put the sound through headphone amp mode, there is sound coming out of the back RCA L/R jacks still. Granted, it is much lower in gain and muffled, but still not isolated. 

 Also, if I amplify this sound, would it be the same quality?_

 

That's been mentioned before and is not unusual for a lot of Audio equipment. Additionally, why would it matter?


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

The stormy woman rhymes into the secretive picture.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just thought there might be something faulty with it, since I'm not familiar with many audio equipment. I just thought that since the headamp and the DAC are separate elements, that the switch would have either/or not both. 

 I was also wondering if this leaked sound can be amped so that I can run both at the same time, essentially being able to hook up 2 headphones._

 

Hi,
 Everything running out the DAC outputs(RCA) and the HeadAmp runs thru the DAC. The HeadAmp is not a separate and isolated path. You could amp it(RCA Crosstalk), but you wouldn't like the result I don't think.

 PATHS

 SPDIF >> DAC >> RCA Out >> Ext Amplified Speakers or HeadAmp
 SPDIF >> DAC >> Zero HeadAmp >> Phones
 SPDIF >> DAC >> Zero HeadAmp >> RCA Out >> Ext Amplified Speakers or HeadAmp, or Power Amp

 The last path makes it where you can use the Volume control of the Zero to vary the level out. This passes the signal thru the Headamp before sending to the RCA outs.


----------



## epsilon72

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_See my sig, we've got someone in China to build something which also has analogue input for HP amp, so you can bypass the DAC entirely. It's not as cheap as the Zero though, but we hope will be considerably better._

 

Aww it's not finished/on the market yet? Darn! I hope it turns out well when you're finished


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there a possible alternative for the Xitel USB-Optical converter? From a quick research, it seems that Kingwa from Audio-gd is developing such a unit but I cannot find the item in their site. I suppose it's still under development. 

 This is the circuit board of the unit:



_

 

This part is for his high end stuff IIRC and not for a separate USB to SPDIF converter although I could be wrong about that. 

 Have a look at the Reference 1 DAC (an upgrade over the DAC8 using that board + chip) on his front page of the website.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

That boppin' Hitler avatar cracks me up......

 The Compass is supposed to be ready by Jan 22nd or thereabouts...not long now.

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Hey Les have you taken a crack at the kit yet ?

 Peete.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Les have you taken a crack at the kit yet ?

 Peete._

 

Hi,
 Naw, the Holidays put the hold on a lot of stuff. Working up to it though. Thanx for asking.


----------



## Miskari

I'm a little confused as to the USB/SPDIF thingy. FWIR Zero has no usb input, just the digital. This means that I the optical cable would connect my soundcard with the Zero. Will that reduce the quality since my soundcard is 'in the way', would a usb connection be better (my understanding is that by using USB it would bypass my sound card completely) ?


----------



## audio-gd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This part is for his high end stuff IIRC and not for a separate USB to SPDIF converter although I could be wrong about that. 

 Have a look at the Reference 1 DAC (an upgrade over the DAC8 using that board + chip) on his front page of the website.

 Peete._

 

We are still testing the separate USB to SPDIF converter , because we add the new funtion like up-sampling, SPDIF input, Optial input, we must sure up-sampling can be improve on SQ


----------



## UncleDavid218

So I need an amp for my K701s. Now I KNOW these need a better amp than this (so save it), but right now I'm focused on buying furniture for my new house and a new HT setup, etc. so I don't see myself spending more than $175 on an amp for my headphones now. I WILL in the future, I promise.

 But between this and the Little Dot I+, what do you suggest? I normally wouldn't even look at a low end tube amp for these phones but it is a hybrid amp, which counts for something at least.

 Let me say again, within the next couple of months I will buy a better amp (~$500) but for now I refuse to when I have other things to spend money on. Resell value is important because I'll sell it when I get a new amp.


----------



## coredump

Unless you have a good DAC get the Zero for sure. Even if you get a better amp you may want to keep the Zero for the DAC.


----------



## UncleDavid218

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coredump* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Unless you have a good DAC get the Zero for sure. Even if you get a better amp you may want to keep the Zero for the DAC._

 

I just sold something I wasn't really planning on selling and now my budget has been raised to $350. I was looking at the Darkvoice 336SE.

 So for that price what might you suggest? Should I just go with the ZERO for now and down the road get a higher end amp and use the ZERO as a DAC?

 I'm using my MacBook as a source so it's pretty garbage.


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

The usable blue expands into the parallel many.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *UncleDavid218* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just sold something I wasn't really planning on selling and now my budget has been raised to $350. I was looking at the Darkvoice 336SE.

 So for that price what might you suggest? Should I just go with the ZERO for now and down the road get a higher end amp and use the ZERO as a DAC?

 I'm using my MacBook as a source so it's pretty garbage._

 

In my experience, at this price point, the amp made a bigger difference than the DAC. The Zero's amp is ok, but nothing special really. In your original post you said you were looking at a LD1 and going to get a better amp later... in that case I'd probably say skip the LD1, get the Zero, use its amp for now, and upgrade the amp later. But if you were going to spend more on the amp now ($350) and then get something else later, I'd get a better amp now and then upgrade the DAC later when I had more money. That's just me though. Also I've never heard the k701's myself, but I've heard they are a bitch to drive - so the Zero amp may not do you much good... or the LD1 for that matter.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interestingly... this audio leakage out the RCA while headphone amp is on for the ZERO disappears (rather, severely minimized) when 'upgraded' wires. Does this make sense? Shouldn't more expensive wires transfer sound better? 

 What I was using before were the typical Red/White/Yellow wires, without using yellow. Now, I switched to Belkin PureAV silver plated blahblabhah sthing..._

 

If you use the cheap wires that come with a piece of eq. or Radio shack cheap type wires, expect noise, hum, crosstalk, etc. There is NO shielding or mechanical measures in those cables to resist EMI or RFI.


----------



## UncleDavid218

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In my experience, at this price point, the amp made a bigger difference than the DAC. The Zero's amp is ok, but nothing special really. In your original post you said you were looking at a LD1 and going to get a better amp later... in that case I'd probably say skip the LD1, get the Zero, use its amp for now, and upgrade the amp later. But if you were going to spend more on the amp now ($350) and then get something else later, I'd get a better amp now and then upgrade the DAC later when I had more money. That's just me though. Also I've never heard the k701's myself, but I've heard they are a bitch to drive - so the Zero amp may not do you much good... or the LD1 for that matter._

 

What do you recommend in that price range? The Shanling PH100 looks to be a popular amp for these phones but they're only $275.


----------



## ScottieB

Honestly I don't know - never used those headphones so I can't help you with those kinds of specifics.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *audio-gd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_We are still testing the separate USB to SPDIF converter , because we add the new funtion like up-sampling, SPDIF input, Optial input, we must sure up-sampling can be improve on SQ_

 

Hi Kingwa.......that's some converter you've got there.....wow. That's a full blown DAC and not just a USB to SPDIF module like the Xitel, correct ?

 It's very cool none the less. What's the projected cost ?

 Peete.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Honestly I don't know - never used those headphones so I can't help you with those kinds of specifics._

 

What about a Compass or C-2C Scottie for the 701's ?

 BTW how's it going bro ? 


 Peete.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What about a Compass or C-2C Scottie for the 701's ?

 BTW how's it going bro ? 


 Peete._

 


 You'd know better than me... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Things are good - and you? Enjoying your 24_96 FLACs?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I'm pretty good although it'll take me a week to catch up on sleep I lost during the Holidays.....damn parties 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sure am SB ...thanks for asking !!!

 Peete.


----------



## audio-gd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Kingwa.......that's some converter you've got there.....wow. That's a full blown DAC and not just a USB to SPDIF module like the Xitel, correct ?

 It's very cool none the less. What's the projected cost ?

 Peete._

 

It not inc DAC parts.
 It only had 1 group USB input, 1 group SPDIF input, and 1 Optial input, it can process the input signal, drop the jitter, in-phase the data, and choice the up-sampling between 44/48/96/192K , then output two groups SPDIF for extra DAC.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *audio-gd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It not inc DAC parts.
 It only had 1 group USB input, 1 group SPDIF input, and 1 Optial input, it can process the input signal, drop the jitter, in-phase the data, and choice the up-sampling between 44/48/96/192K , then output two groups SPDIF for extra DAC._

 


 What product is it being designed for?


----------



## jackBnimble3556

Have you tried out any Grado's yet?


----------



## audio-gd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What product is it being designed for?_

 

It is a whole product.It is a digital processor.
 I test it by a DVD SPDIF input and output SPDIF to DAC, sound is better than use DVD SPDIF direct to DAC.
 And it can input USB, output 44-192K/24Bit for DAC, we hope the sound can better than some mid( or high)-grade CD transmit.


----------



## sandchak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *UncleDavid218* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What do you recommend in that price range? The Shanling PH100 looks to be a popular amp for these phones but they're only $275._

 

Well, I had the opportunity to play the 701 through Shanling for a couple of months, I had the Zero too, but it would be unfair to compare Zero as headphone amp against Shanling, which is a dedicated amp.

 For sure, the Shanling does have a lot of amp to take care of 701 needs, being quite a demanding headphone, the first thing I noticed with the 701 hooked up with Shanling, is the ease in which music flowed from the cans, the highs were tamed and laid back without losing the dynamics, the difference was more prominent while hearing instruments such as Sax and piano, where it seemed to add more weight and wood, to put it plainly it sounded more analogue..Incidentally, I play both instruments, so it was easier for me to recognize the difference. On the lower end, It did not add anything, but simply made it more tighter and well defined..

 On the downside - The Soundstage which is one of the selling points of 701s, did suffer, I do not know if this is because of the amp or my source (NAD C541i) - but even when listening through my old HK amp, I found the soundstage widen up than the Shanling..

 The reason I sold both the Shanling and 701 is purely personal, I live in a very noisy atmosphere( two kids at home) and theres a lot of leakage of sound both in and out.. So I am planning to go closed cans, maybe Denons..

 I guess, you should wait for a little while before going in for Shanling rightaway - theres an DAC+AMP (Compass) which should be hitting the market pretty soon, If I am not mistaken it is also a discrete amp and you have the choice of tweaking the sound to your liking, and more than anything it has a DAC too, at a price lower than the Shanling.

 Thats what I have done, I am waiting for my Compass, read reviews of how it performs with different closed headphones before I take a dive..


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What about a Compass or C-2C Scottie for the 701's ?

 BTW how's it going bro ? 


 Peete._

 

The C2C, since it adds a bit of (tight) bass and treble, might be a good match for the K701s. It makes my modded + re-cupped Denons and ED9s too boomy though.


----------



## sandchak

Question shifted to Compass thread .. I thought it was more appropriate..


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *audio-gd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is a whole product.It is a digital processor.
 I test it by a DVD SPDIF input and output SPDIF to DAC, sound is better than use DVD SPDIF direct to DAC.
 And it can input USB, output 44-192K/24Bit for DAC, we hope the sound can better than some mid( or high)-grade CD transmit._

 

That's a great idea Kingwa...I think I understand what your driving at now. Truly unique and much needed device ....I hope it works out as planned. This has the potential to even the playing field among computer sources and the various digital outputs they have. If all three output types can be brought up to a level considered audiophile quality (whatever that is) then it's a breakthrough product IMHO.

 Peete.


----------



## mechtech

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *UncleDavid218* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just sold something I wasn't really planning on selling and now my budget has been raised to $350. I was looking at the Darkvoice 336SE.

 So for that price what might you suggest? Should I just go with the ZERO for now and down the road get a higher end amp and use the ZERO as a DAC?

 I'm using my MacBook as a source so it's pretty garbage._

 

I say get the Zero. Your 701s will still sound great out of the Zero amp. When you get the money simply get the Darkvoice you have your eyes on and you have a really nice setup.

 Also, I recommend you upgrade the Zero DAC to its full potential by replacing the OPamp chip with an HDAM (probably the Moon). This replaces the chip with more discreet components, and improves sound quality.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/opa...pdates-372219/

ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mechtech* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I say get the Zero. Your 701s will still sound great out of the Zero amp. When you get the money simply get the Darkvoice you have your eyes on and you have a really nice setup.

 Also, I recommend you upgrade the Zero DAC to its full potential by replacing the OPamp chip with an HDAM (probably the Moon). This replaces the chip with more discreet components, and improves sound quality.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/opa...pdates-372219/

ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1_

 

Good Combo. I'm sure the Darkvoice will do the dirty deed!


----------



## djchaz

Is an rca cable to a headphone output on a laptop more or less favorable than some other connection methods such as toslink, etc? Thanks.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djchaz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is an rca cable to a headphone output on a laptop more or less favorable than some other connection methods such as toslink, etc? Thanks._

 


 Ideally, you want to get SPDIF(ie digital) out of your Laptop. If you have no direct digital out, then a USB to SPDIF adapter. Does your laptop do SPDIF out?


----------



## djchaz

Unfortunately I don't have an SPDIF out on my laptop so I guess I'd have to settle for a USB to SPDIF adapter.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djchaz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Unfortunately I don't have an SPDIF out on my laptop so I guess I'd have to settle for a USB to SPDIF adapter._

 

That would get your sound processing totally out of your noisy laptop environment. It would make it where you could use a good DAC and headamp compared to the "stock" Soundcard in the Laptop which is probably junk.


----------



## oyroy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You will need to choose between the Earth, Sun and Moon. The general concensous here is that the Earth is the most neutral (and as such the most liked here), the Sun is a bit too forward and bright, and the moon is newer, perhaps warmer and more "tube-like"._

 

So, Im rather new here (as ye can see from post count), but from reccomendation from a buddy of mine I bought the Zero. Extreme improvement over my old setup, which was on-board stuff from my computer. Now it is Optical from motherboard, to the Zero and my Beyerdynamic DT770 (32 ohm).

 Im considering upgrading tho, and Ive ordered LT1364, but Im still wondering about the DAC upgrade. Was thinking of OPA627, but maybe Id rather go for a HDAM instead. Its not that big a difference in cost when Im doing an upgrade anyway, and it looks from people here that its a solid improvement even over the 627's.

 Still not sure what HDAM to go with tho. I mostly listen to Alternative Rock and Metal, tho I also use them for my regular Computing-use, which also involve tvseries, movies and gaming. Does anyone have a suggestion wether to use the Moon or Earth HDAM? (I guess I shouldnt go with the Sun). Im probably not as into this stuff as a lot of you, but I really enjoy good sound, and when I have the Zero and DT70 I might as well make the best out of it.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oyroy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, Im rather new here (as ye can see from post count), but from reccomendation from a buddy of mine I bought the Zero. Extreme improvement over my old setup, which was on-board stuff from my computer. Now it is Optical from motherboard, to the Zero and my Beyerdynamic DT770 (32 ohm).

 Im considering upgrading tho, and Ive ordered LT1364, but Im still wondering about the DAC upgrade. Was thinking of OPA627, but maybe Id rather go for a HDAM instead. Its not that big a difference in cost when Im doing an upgrade anyway, and it looks from people here that its a solid improvement even over the 627's.

 Still not sure what HDAM to go with tho. I mostly listen to Alternative Rock and Metal, tho I also use them for my regular Computing-use, which also involve tvseries, movies and gaming. Does anyone have a suggestion wether to use the Moon or Earth HDAM? (I guess I shouldnt go with the Sun). Im probably not as into this stuff as a lot of you, but I really enjoy good sound, and when I have the Zero and DT70 I might as well make the best out of it._

 

Hi,
 You can't go wrong with the Earth. Lots of support out there for Moon. Everybody would say don't waste time and money on anything but an HDAM. Get the Dual chip version HDAM w/ 200 mm extension cable.


----------



## Ben Diss

Question: I snipped the 22pf caps at the RCA jack. I didn't like the sound, so I replaced them. I still think it's a bit bright so I'm wondering what a pair of 100pf caps would do. Would it likely be no difference or might it tame the highs a little more?


----------



## K3cT

Expanding on the USB-to-SPDIF converter topic and since no one responded to my question regarding it earlier in the this thread, I came upon this unit: 

NEW USB to SPDIF & OPTICAL HI-FI Adapter UDA1321/CS8405 - eBay (item 180317611021 end time Jan-31-09 01:11:25 PST)
 Seems to be based on Philips UDA1321 chip. Do anyone have any experience on this?

 I also stumbled on these other converters:
 1. HA mini converter, based on BB PCM 2902 chip. Link: USB TO SPDIF (Use PCM2902) | CAMEL RF
 2. Bel-Canto converter at $459 (!!!). Link: Bel Canto's USB Link 24/96 converts USB audio to S/PDIF - Engadget).
 3. Hifi DIY kit at $40 but I guess you need to assemble it yourself. Link: USB -HIFIDIY

 If anyone have any comments on those aforemnetioned units, it will be really helpful.


----------



## majkel

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/aud...1/#post5238657


----------



## K3cT

To add, apparently the HA mini converter has another variant using CM102 chip (???) as shown here: Mini USB TO SPDIF (Use CM102) Converters - eBay (item 280279287691 end time Nov-21-08 12:11:59 PST)

 God, this is so confusing.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *majkel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/aud...1/#post5238657_

 


 Kewl thread, Thanx!


----------



## Ben Diss

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ben Diss* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Question: I snipped the 22pf caps at the RCA jack. I didn't like the sound, so I replaced them. I still think it's a bit bright so I'm wondering what a pair of 100pf caps would do. Would it likely be no difference or might it tame the highs a little more?_

 

Anyone?


----------



## Currawong

There shouldn't be caps there at all in the signal path. Are you using the HP amp built-in or another amp?


----------



## Ben Diss

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There shouldn't be caps there at all in the signal path. Are you using the HP amp built-in or another amp?_

 

I've tried it both ways. When not using the built-in amp, I'm using a LD Mk V.


----------



## Currawong

You could try different opamps. If you're up for some rather tedious disassembly work, you can also roll the opamps in the MKV and even fit HDAMs in there.


----------



## Ben Diss

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You could try different opamps. If you're up for some rather tedious disassembly work, you can also roll the opamps in the MKV and even fit HDAMs in there._

 

Maybe I wasn't completely clear. There are two 22pf caps in the signal path near the RCA outs. Some suggest that removing these adds detail. I tried it, but it's too bright for me. I should have left it alone. I purchased replacement caps but it's still a little too bright.

 Would 100pf caps sound different than the 22pf caps?


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ben Diss* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe I wasn't completely clear. There are two 22pf caps in the signal path near the RCA outs. Some suggest that removing these adds detail. I tried it, but it's too bright for me. I should have left it alone. I purchased replacement caps but it's still a little too bright.

 Would 100pf caps sound different than the 22pf caps?_

 

I think we all understand but the fact is those caps should offer a minimal change at most - many say they shouldn't have been there in the first place. I'm no expert but my guess is that an opamp switch would do more to get what you want. Just replace the caps that were there if you don't like the change, and look at some opamps to back off the brightness. Of course I could be very wrong...


----------



## BigTony

If you think its too bright then you'd do well to swtich the opamp on the DAC. Pop in something smooth, like Moon HDAM.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think we all understand but the fact is those caps should offer a minimal change at most - many say they shouldn't have been there in the first place. I'm no expert but my guess is that an opamp switch would do more to get what you want. Just replace the caps that were there if you don't like the change, and look at some opamps to back off the brightness. Of course I could be very wrong... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hi ScottieB, I just want to add an observation here to what you posted. I'm thinking that most of the Initial OpAmp evaluations were made with these Caps in place. It is quite possible that a second look at the OpAmps with the Caps snipped would reshuffle the preferences of which sound best?

 What do you think?

 A lot of folks like them snipped, I left mine in place.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi ScottieB, I just want to add an observation here to what you posted. I'm thinking that most of the Initial OpAmp evaluations were made with these Caps in place. It is quite possible that a second look at the OpAmps with the Caps snipped would reshuffle the preferences of which sound best?

 What do you think?

 A lot of folks like them snipped, I left mine in place._

 

Could be... I'm finding more and more that I tend to like the "bright" or "forward" sound. My first "good" headphones were Grado's so this is likely where this comes from. My current cans are Senn HD-600, which are much darker. Overall I like them, but I tend to enjoy it when I can bring back a bit of the brightness I left behind with the Grados - so the snip mod was great for me and I enjoy the Sun HDAM as well with my Senns. Just trying to find the best of both worlds I guess - and i seem to be getting closer.

 More along the lines of what you were saying, when i first tried them, i wasn't a big fan of "the russians" - tubes for my LD MKIII, but now, with the snip mod, the Sun and the HD-600s, I am actually liking them a LOT - especially with rock music. 

 So yeah, I think your perceptions of all the various changes you can make may be altered by the OTHER mods in place... makes sense. Whether you like the cap mod and what it does to the sound definitely has something to do with your affinity (or lack thereof) for brightness. Put another way, everything has to work together to give the sound you hear - headpohnes, source, hdam, cap mod, other mods etc - so changing any one thing in that loop will likely (at the very least) color eveyrthing else in the chain, no?


----------



## helicopter34234

Well my second Zero died after about two months. I received it early November (from wsz0304) and it was functioning perfectly fine since then until a few days ago I got no output. I noticed that I was getting signal lock (the LED lit up and the relay clicked) from both coax and optical, however I was not getting any signal from the RCA ports in the back or from the HP amp. I verified that the HP amp is still working by testing it in a spare Zero I have (my first DOA Zero from Lawrence that had a bad HP amp but a good D/A board, so I could use it to test). I have not done any modifications whatsoever to either Zero nor do I notice any obviously burned components. Pretty frustration, but at least others have said that wsz0304 takes care of these things pretty quickly and often without making the user send back the component. Even if I have to send back the component, it should only cost about $10 (assuming I can box the D/A board up in under a pound). Not trying to complain to the forum (I have done that enough already about my Zero troubles), just trying to update others on the incidence rate of failure. Latent failures are scarier than DOA because it could occur soon after the 1 year warrantee period.

 I would often leave the Zero on (without signal) for several days. Supposedly with SS equiptment this should be ok (maybe even better than cycling the power so often), so it is not an excuse for such failure, but with the Zero it might be something to keep in mind. The Zero might not be properly designed to handle the heat it produces.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *helicopter34234* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well my second Zero died after about two months. I received it early November (from wsz0304) and it was functioning perfectly fine since then until a few days ago I got no output. <<<<<SNIP>>>>>>>

 I would often leave the Zero on (without signal) for several days. Supposedly with SS equiptment this should be ok (maybe even better than cycling the power so often), so it is not an excuse for such failure, but with the Zero it might be something to keep in mind. The Zero might not be properly designed to handle the heat it produces._

 

That Sux! Thanx for the update. I leave all my SS stuff on all the time. Have always done that. Have you tried an OpAmp swap out? Or a Transformer swap. The one good thing about two Zero's is having swap parts I suppose.


----------



## helicopter34234

Quote:


 Have you tried an OpAmp swap out? Or a Transformer swap. The one good thing about two Zero's is having swap parts I suppose. 
 

I didn't spend the time isolating the defect to an individual component, I just know it isn't the headphone amp because I tested it on the other system. I doubt it would be the transformer since I am getting power and even digital signal lock in. Hopefully I will get the replacement d/a board from wsz0304 so that I will have a spare. I previously had the notion of selling the other Zero with the bad HP board to someone interested in using it for its RCA output but now I think it might be worth just having the spares around.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *helicopter34234* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I didn't spend the time isolating the defect to an individual component, I just know it isn't the headphone amp because I tested it on the other system. I doubt it would be the transformer since I am getting power and even digital signal lock in. Hopefully I will get the replacement d/a board from wsz0304 so that I will have a spare. I previously had the notion of selling the other Zero with the bad HP board to someone interested in using it for its RCA output but now I think it might be worth just having the spares around._

 

Good to have spare parts around, there's something wrong with the silver lining in this cloud, ehhh? 

 Most Zero owners don't have spares. Keep it around. I'm, one of these days, going to do my Franken mod. I am at risk of burning it up. If I do, you can have my HA board. I'm going to mod it first and test it, so it should be good to go. I'll probably hose the DAC board when I start goofing on it.! Keep your fingers crossed!


----------



## prinz

I've finished the frankenZERO mod.. and... somethings wrong 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I dont hear the sound through the zero amplifier and i dont have anything else like speakers or another ampliifer to check which part of zero is wrong. 4 led red diodes are ON, i hear quiet noise on headphones, so amplifier should be ok.
 When i press the reset button, i hear for a half of second a sound through headphones.






 help..


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *prinz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've finished the frankenZERO mod.. and... somethings wrong 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I dont hear the sound through the zero amplifier and i dont have anything else like speakers or another ampliifer to check which part of zero is wrong. 4 led red diodes are ON, i hear quiet noise on headphones, so amplifier should be ok.
 When i press the reset button, i hear for a half of second a sound through headphones.






 help.._

 

That's rough, I've got no idea how to help you troubleshoot. You should post in the FrankenZero thread and see if peete or some of the other mod guru's can help you out. The first thing I would do is check over visually all your solder joints. You can use a Volt Ohm meter and make sure your solder joints are not open. Pay particular attention obviously to areas that were difficult for you to desolder or solder. You may have got something too hot.


----------



## prinz

it's horrible.. no idea what went wrong. I talked with Peete, i think all parts are in good shape, they are ok. Probably i made cold solder joint, or track is cut somewhere. Tomorrow im taking my zero to electronic service. I dont know how to find mistake. Even if i look on solder, i dont know if its cold or not


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *prinz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_it's horrible.. no idea what went wrong. I talked with Peete, i think all parts are in good shape, they are ok. Probably i made cold solder joint, or track is cut somewhere. Tomorrow im taking my zero to electronic service. I dont know how to find mistake. Even if i look on solder, i dont know if its cold or not 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 


 Good luck, hope it works out well..


----------



## andrus

I'm looking for a cheap source set-up (still using onboard/Zune unamped for Alessandro MS-1 and Denon C551). I don't really have a set budget but I'd like to keep it as low as possible while still getting a great value. Would the ZERO be the best solution for me? I would use it as both a DAC and amp and I might be upgrading my Alessandros within a year so I'd like to be able to continue using this.

 And sorry a pretty noobish question but what would be the best way to hook it up to my computer? Just get a cheapo card like the AV710 and use the digital out? Or is there an easier/cheaper way?


----------



## Ben Diss

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *prinz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_it's horrible.. no idea what went wrong. I talked with Peete, i think all parts are in good shape, they are ok. Probably i made cold solder joint, or track is cut somewhere. Tomorrow im taking my zero to electronic service. I dont know how to find mistake. Even if i look on solder, i dont know if its cold or not 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I screwed up a couple of traces when I did mine. Luckily I could see them, so I just fixed it and all was well. It's real easy to do. Remember some components make connection from the bottom and some from the top. You have to make sure you have a good solder joint on the side that counts.

 BTW, I'm in about hour 200 of the burn-in. It's like a completely different amp already.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ben Diss* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I screwed up a couple of traces when I did mine. Luckily I could see them, so I just fixed it and all was well. It's real easy to do. Remember some components make connection from the bottom and some from the top. You have to make sure you have a good solder joint on the side that counts.

 BTW, I'm in about hour 200 of the burn-in. It's like a completely different amp already._

 

I screwed up one of the LEDs on the LED mod because I didn't notice the side of the board that had to have the connection. Goofy mistake...


----------



## mbd2884

Once the reviews for Compass are out, and they are good, hopefully all the woes and problems with Zero will be over, err in that, there will be a good alternative.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Once the reviews for Compass are out, and they are good, hopefully all the woes and problems with Zero will be over, err in that, there will be a good alternative._

 

Well, you could say it was fun while it lasted..

 Or you could say that the Compass does not play in the same arena as the Zero. A stock Zero is much less than a Stock Compass.

 A Compass with shipping will be $360-$375 shipped. I'm taking the promo price and adding a mere $50 + Shipping for the Final price.

 A Zero shipped can be had for what $170 something or so. More than double the price is a significant difference.

 I don't think the Zero market will be hit much from the Compass. I think the Compass is up against the Yulongs, Keece's, etc. IMHO.


----------



## sandchak

I am not too sure, if Compass will ever be able to replace or provide an alternative to ZERO..

 Lets not forget if not for Zero, maybe Compass wouldn't have been here, not at least so soon - Zero basically laid the foundations for Compass..

 Whether Compass fulfills its promise, is yet to be proven.. but Zero has.. Zero will have its Fan base (count me in..) and customer base..


----------



## prinz

rotfl. i soldered all of the part from the underside of PCB :/ (they are placed on the right side, just soldering is probably on wrong side)
 Could someone post a picture which elements should be soldered from which side ?
 (ive replaced ALL capacitors)


----------



## Ben Diss

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *prinz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_rotfl. i soldered all of the part from the underside of PCB :/ (they are placed on the right side, just soldering is probably on wrong side)
 Could someone post a picture which elements should be soldered from which side ?
 (ive replaced ALL capacitors)_

 

Just look at the board and you can see the traces. It'd take a crazy amount of work to document them all, especially if you replaced them all.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *prinz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_rotfl. i soldered all of the part from the underside of PCB :/ (they are placed on the right side, just soldering is probably on wrong side)
 Could someone post a picture which elements should be soldered from which side ?
 (ive replaced ALL capacitors)_

 

I would be ROFC(Rolling On Floor Crying) instead! Be careful desoldering. You will just have to look and figure out which side has the trace on it. Some solder points will appear to connect to nothing and they don't. That means the actual traces need to be done on the other side. Take your time and look carefully at all the traces. You could save yourself a lot of grief by checking which ones work and whick ones don't with a Volt Ohm meter.

 Take your Volt Meter, set it for Ohms, touch one lead to a leg on your cap, and touch the other to the "next Hop" on the circuit trace and see if the circuit is open or short. You can check some "known good" traces to see how many Ohms they should read, but there should be little resistance.


----------



## prinz

i dont have any volt meter or other electronic equipment.
 I will just solder from both sides i guess..


----------



## mbd2884

While I agree for the price range, the ZERO seems like an incredible deal, but just skimming over this thread, the horror stories would be reason for me to not buy this. Just wait and save up for the Compass or a KECES 151 with a Little Dot 2


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *prinz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i dont have any volt meter or other electronic equipment.
 I will just solder from both sides i guess.._

 

Hi, You can buy a cheap VM at Ratshack for not much, or borrow one, or Home depot, etc. Gives you a good excuse to learn how to use one, and it's fun to boot!

 One thing the VM will save you from is this: If you have good joints and now screw around with them, you may convert a good connection to a disaster by lifting traces and what not.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mbd2884* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_While I agree for the price range, the ZERO seems like an incredible deal, but just skimming over this thread, the horror stories would be reason for me to not buy this. Just wait and save up for the Compass or a KECES 151 with a Little Dot 2_

 

Except that the horror stories are really a tiny fraction compared to the success stories... remember that people are far more likely to come to a forum to complain than to glow - the happy ones are more likely busy listening to music! Not to say that there isn't risk - any time you buy a (relatively) unknown product from overseas, from relatively unknown sellers, there's risk involved. But to not buy one just because there have been some issues is missing the point. This pretty much goes for any electronics forum.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Except that the horror stories are really a tiny fraction compared to the success stories... remember that people are far more likely to come to a forum to complain than to glow - the happy ones are more likely busy listening to music! Not to say that there isn't risk - any time you buy a (relatively) unknown product from overseas, from relatively unknown sellers, there's risk involved. But to not buy one just because there have been some issues is missing the point. This pretty much goes for any electronics forum. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Unfortuantely, there's no way to quantify the extent of the problem.

 The problems that were had were pretty bad and smack of non existant QC. You would normally expect for there to be a flaw in Quality and a lot of units come off a line with the same problem, and a product goes out to customers and a lot of guys say, yeah I got the problem to, me too, etc. 

 These Zero problems seemed to be all over the place. That to me is what is scary. The only phrase I can come up with to describe it is:

*"Slapped together"*

 That was what bothered me the most. Numerous different problems that reflected a Philosophy more than a assembly line Flaw.


----------



## ScottieB

No I understand, and I'm not trying to say that there aren't problems, but consider how many have purchased Zero's and never posted a single word here - generally speaking people are much more vocal about their bad experiences, so when you come to a forum like this it tends to get blown out of proportion or seem worse to the average person finding their way here. 

 I'm certainly not arguing that something changed, and it seemed to happen around the time the popularity was really taking off... but at the same time, Zero's are still selling, and plenty of people are perfectly happy. I consider myself lucky that it went smoothly - in fact my only issue was with Audio-GD and my HDAMs (it was small and I was able to fix it - and learn to solder at the same time - AND they gave me a discount on my next purchase). Trust me I've been there before and been screwed before, but it all needs to be taken in perspective is all. Someone who's gotten screwed by buying a zero will have a different perspective, of course.


----------



## csroc

I agree that since the Compass comes in at $325 after shipping and Paypal fees to the US, it's not much of a Zero competitor. Still, it will be interesting to see what it does compare against. For many people there's still a need for the Zero or something like it, thus we have this thread!


----------



## K3cT

The real interesting thing for me is how a modded Zero compare against the Compass.


----------



## Ben Diss

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The real interesting thing for me is how a modded Zero compare against the Compass._

 

... and then against a Keces DA-152 or Corda Cantata.


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ben Diss* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_... and then against a Keces DA-152 or Corda Cantata._

 

Agreed, I'm very interested how it does against other amp/dacs in that ballpark, in particular those two.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No I understand, and I'm not trying to say that there aren't problems, but consider how many have purchased Zero's and never posted a single word here - generally speaking people are much more vocal about their bad experiences, so when you come to a forum like this it tends to get blown out of proportion or seem worse to the average person finding their way here. 

 I'm certainly not arguing that something changed, and it seemed to happen around the time the popularity was really taking off... but at the same time, Zero's are still selling, and plenty of people are perfectly happy. I consider myself lucky that it went smoothly - in fact my only issue was with Audio-GD and my HDAMs (it was small and I was able to fix it - and learn to solder at the same time - AND they gave me a discount on my next purchase). Trust me I've been there before and been screwed before, but it all needs to be taken in perspective is all. Someone who's gotten screwed by buying a zero will have a different perspective, of course._

 

Absolutely, and my experience was like yours. No issues whatsoever. The Zero still seems to own this market to me. And if there were no QC issues would be unchallenged.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree that since the Compass comes in at $325 after shipping and Paypal fees to the US, it's not much of a Zero competitor. Still, it will be interesting to see what it does compare against. For many people there's still a need for the Zero or something like it, thus we have this thread!_

 

Hey, and then the Compass will most likely adjust in price $50 or more making the gulf larger. The HDAM deal was a two for one. I don't think the Compass can double.

 If a FrankenZero and a Compass sound alike, I think the Compass is a better deal because the mod'd Franken Zero with Alps/HDAMs/Cap upgrades starts getting up there in price about $270 if you can do the mod yourself. If the difference is only $50 and no SQ advantage, then you have to look at the execution of the product and whether the support and QC is good. Zero gets killed on both of those points.

 If the FrankenZero sounds a lot better than the Compass, well, hmmm, PP, Curra, and Penchum got to mod us up a Compass!!


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Absolutely, and my experience was like yours. No issues whatsoever. The Zero still seems to own this market to me. And if there were no QC issues would be unchallenged._

 

Agreed, if QC of the Zero was good then there'd be nothing to really complain about!


----------



## katzer1

Hi,

 Can the Zero output to headphones AND rca (as dac, not pre-amp) at the same time?
 I was thinking of having one set of headphones plugged to it, and the RCA output feeding another headphone amp I have and have a second pair of phones connected to it, that way 2 ppl can listen to music at the same time. Any thoughts?

 Thanks,

 Erez


----------



## azncookiecutter

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *katzer1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,

 Can the Zero output to headphones AND rca (as dac, not pre-amp) at the same time?
 I was thinking of having one set of headphones plugged to it, and the RCA output feeding another headphone amp I have and have a second pair of phones connected to it, that way 2 ppl can listen to music at the same time. Any thoughts?

 Thanks,

 Erez_

 

That is a negative.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ben Diss* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I screwed up a couple of traces when I did mine. Luckily I could see them, so I just fixed it and all was well. It's real easy to do. Remember some components make connection from the bottom and some from the top. You have to make sure you have a good solder joint on the side that counts.

 BTW, I'm in about hour 200 of the burn-in. It's like a completely different amp already._

 

Man I feel bad when things don't work exactly to plan. 

 Ben I'm glad you have yours up and running, it'll sound pretty darn good once you hit 300 hours if you aren't there already when you read this. Shoot me a PM or post your thoughts on it please in the FrankenZERO thread when you have some spare time in the near future. I'd greatly appreciate that.

 Prinz, the electronics tech should be able to find the fault for you really quickly (as in an hour or two, maybe less). There is only so much I can do Prinz without pics or the board in front of me but I do wish you luck in getting yours running..... Hopefully you'll have good news to report soon !!!

 Peete.


----------



## katzer1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *katzer1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,

 Can the Zero output to headphones AND rca (as dac, not pre-amp) at the same time?
 I was thinking of having one set of headphones plugged to it, and the RCA output feeding another headphone amp I have and have a second pair of phones connected to it, that way 2 ppl can listen to music at the same time. Any thoughts?

 Thanks,

 Erez_

 

I just got a reply from the ebay seller saying it is possible to output to both phone and rca, but I am inclined to take it with a grain of salt.
 azncookiecutter or others who might have this amp, have you tried what I am asking about?

 Thanks!
 Erez


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *katzer1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got a reply from the ebay seller saying it is possible to output to both phone and rca, but I am inclined to take it with a grain of salt.
 azncookiecutter or others who might have this amp, have you tried what I am asking about?

 Thanks!
 Erez_

 

Well you can - just not at the same time!


----------



## azncookiecutter

Well, at least unmodified, I have not gotten this to work like that. It's either RCA or phone output, one or the other.


----------



## prinz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Man I feel bad when things don't work exactly to plan. 

 Ben I'm glad you have yours up and running, it'll sound pretty darn good once you hit 300 hours if you aren't there already when you read this. Shoot me a PM or post your thoughts on it please in the FrankenZERO thread when you have some spare time in the near future. I'd greatly appreciate that.

 Prinz, the electronics tech should be able to find the fault for you really quickly (as in an hour or two, maybe less). There is only so much I can do Prinz without pics or the board in front of me but I do wish you luck in getting yours running..... Hopefully you'll have good news to report soon !!!

 Peete._

 


 I gave my zero to some electronics specialist.. three days ago. I'll get crazy soon, if he wont give me my zero back. Day after day he says that he doesnt have time or smth. :/ Yesterday we sheduled the phonecall on todays evening... he didnt call. person!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *prinz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I gave my zero to some electronics specialist.. three days ago. I'll get crazy soon, if he wont give me my zero back. Day after day he says that he doesnt have time or smth. :/ Yesterday we sheduled the phonecall on todays evening... he didnt call. person! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Good luck! And don't rush Genius! Sometimes if you rush Genius, it refuses to play with you!


----------



## helicopter34234

I mentioned before that my Zero (from wsz0304) stopped working but I wanted to have you guys weigh in on a possible cause. I currently switched out the DAC board from another Zero that had a bad HP amp so I have a running system, I am just worried that something will happen again. Also, it's been a week since I asked wsz0304 if he will give me a replacement (he had responded earlier about things that his engineers said I should test to verify exactly what isn't working). I have a working unit now (from my own spare parts) so I am not as impatient as I would be if I was sitting here with nothing, I just hope he comes through seeing as how I already gave him feedback so he has 0 incentive to satisfy me. However, I am hopeful and will give it time.

 Ok, so the description of the failure:
 -It worked for a little over a month.
 -Nothing was changed in my setup for quite some time before the failure
 -Only mod was upgrading the OPAMP in the HP amp (which still works)
 -I left the unit on most of the time, the unit sits on its side and nothing is obstruction the vents.
 -The LED's lit indicating signal lock and the relays click when I played a song so it seems that part was functioning
 -I tested the OPAMP from the DAC in the other DAC board and it appears to still be functioning
 -When I swapped out the DAC board for the one from my other system, everything worked indicating the problem was in the DAC, not in my signal delivery.

 Possible issues:
 -I left the unit on so anytime Windows would send a sound (error dings, etc.) the relays would engage. Could this cycling of the relays some how damage other components?
 -Some I plug my computer speakers into the Zero HP amp for convience. The speakers input is designed to be plugged into a soundcard (1/8 inch plug) so I imagine its not drawing tons of current or anything, it has a build in amp. Is there any way that this could be an issue?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *helicopter34234* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I mentioned before that my Zero (from wsz0304) stopped working but I wanted to have you guys weigh in on a possible cause. I currently switched out the DAC board from another Zero that had a bad HP amp so I have a running system, I am just worried that something will happen again. Also, it's been a week since I asked wsz0304 if he will give me a replacement (he had responded earlier about things that his engineers said I should test to verify exactly what isn't working). I have a working unit now (from my own spare parts) so I am not as impatient as I would be if I was sitting here with nothing, I just hope he comes through seeing as how I already gave him feedback so he has 0 incentive to satisfy me. However, I am hopeful and will give it time.

 Ok, so the description of the failure:
 -It worked for a little over a month.
 -Nothing was changed in my setup for quite some time before the failure
 -Only mod was upgrading the OPAMP in the HP amp (which still works)
 -I left the unit on most of the time, the unit sits on its side and nothing is obstruction the vents.
 -The LED's lit indicating signal lock and the relays click when I played a song so it seems that part was functioning
 -I tested the OPAMP from the DAC in the other DAC board and it appears to still be functioning
 -When I swapped out the DAC board for the one from my other system, everything worked indicating the problem was in the DAC, not in my signal delivery.

 Possible issues:
 -I left the unit on so anytime Windows would send a sound (error dings, etc.) the relays would engage. Could this cycling of the relays some how damage other components?
 -Some I plug my computer speakers into the Zero HP amp for convience. The speakers input is designed to be plugged into a soundcard (1/8 inch plug) so I imagine its not drawing tons of current or anything, it has a build in amp. Is there any way that this could be an issue?_

 

I don't think anything you were doing had anything to do with the dead DAC board. The relays should be good for lots of switches in their lifespans.

 If there were an overdrive issue with the Headamp, I think it would only affect the HA. Also you were driving powered spkrs, so that seems highly unlikely.


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

Did the hidden bid really employ the task?


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What kind of bottle neck is the Zero DAC with HDAM upgrades a la ebay.com? Hypothetically, if I attached a high-end expensive amp such as RSARaptor, MAD Ear+, or even a LISA III, would the Zero DAC really have a hard time pulling its weight??_

 

I asked this question once myself in a thread about some of those amps (or maybe some other hi-end amps). I was basically told it would do a decent job of sourcing, and would sound better than most CD players and just about any sound card - so it'd be worth upgrading my amp. They (of course) said I'd probably want to look at upgrading the DAC as well eventually to bring out the full potential, but as a source the Zero is certainly above average - "mid-fi" many called it.

 So I the consensus seemed to be that it would be adequate if not stellar - but if it beats most CD transports then it's worth something, no?

 I don't claim to have any experience with this, the stuff in my sig is my first head-fi rig, so all of this is from others.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What kind of bottle neck is the Zero DAC with HDAM upgrades a la ebay.com? Hypothetically, if I attached a high-end expensive amp such as RSARaptor, MAD Ear+, or even a LISA III, would the Zero DAC really have a hard time pulling its weight??_

 

I "think" you'll hear that the Zero is a great DAC for the price and a "greater" DAC if you mod it. I have had mine running a "nice" amp, a DV 337SE. I'm getting a Much better DAC in March, then I'll be able to assess how good the Zero DAC is for sure vs a Higher end DAC. Currawong has had a lot of Nice DACs as well as Prickly Peete. The underlying theme of this thread is how good the Zero is for the Money. What you're asking is how Good the Zero is PERIOD. That's a slippery question, let's watch for the answers...


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What kind of bottle neck is the Zero DAC with HDAM upgrades a la ebay.com? Hypothetically, if I attached a high-end expensive amp such as RSARaptor, MAD Ear+, or even a LISA III, would the Zero DAC really have a hard time pulling its weight??_

 

If I had a Raptor or the like, I wouldn't call the Zero "good enough". Basically, it's not as detailed as a good DAC is. What it has going for it is that it sounds good for the money.

 Overall, I've rated DACs on two scales: How much detail they have, and how natural they sound. The Zero uses a DA chip that is quite good on the "natural" front, sounding less analytical than, say, an Apogee Duet, but the Zero itself is not anywhere near as detailed as a Lavry, Benchmark or the like, even with a HDAM installed.

 What I've found is that the detail of DACs such as the Lavry DA-10 and Benchmark DAC 1 reveal their digital sound more. So, listening to something like the Zero is easily enjoyable as it masks its digital sound with a little warmth.

 Lets say you bought a serious amp, and plugged a Zero. First you might be blown away by how well the amp drove your headphones compared to the Zero. Then if you got a serious DAC (say one using 4x the PCM1704 chip such as the Nakamichi Dragon I heard the other day) and some good cables, then you'd be incredibly shocked at the difference.


----------



## nauxolo

Thanks currawong! 


 Guess the zero is a keeper until I feel a bad case of upgraditis or it blows up.


----------



## Alai

A question for those who know their way around the insides of the Zero...

 My Zero died. Just stopped turning on for no reason. My dad (knows his way around electronics, to a good extent) claims that due to the lack of a fuse, the Zero is good as dead and all the components with it. Does that mean the LT1364 and Moon HDAM are unsalvageable?

 (There's no signs of burned or bulging caps to indicate fried board. Dad thinks it's those "Chinese transformers" that did the Zero in. I dunno if I can understand how a magnet wrapped in copper wires can hurt anything, but... anyways.)


----------



## ScottieB

^ this is starting to get a little scary - seems like these are popping up more and more... I really hope not though...


----------



## AudioPhewl

Scottie - mine died for no reason.

 Alai - is there voltage coming from the tranny? If so, are the voltages from the regulators correct?

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Alai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioPhewl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Scottie - mine died for no reason.

 Alai - is there voltage coming from the tranny? If so, are the voltages from the regulators correct?

 ~Phewl._

 

We tested for voltage from tranny and there was none. Also, I dunno if it's just me, but shouldn't the magnet be magnetized? Even my cheap-o experimental DJ headphone drivers are having screws stick to them (I am trying to get familiar with headphone insides) while the tranny doesn't let anything stick to it at all (through the plastic, but should that stop it from magnetizing?).


----------



## AudioPhewl

Should they be?!? Mine isn't, whether powered on or not...

 I'd take voltage measurements, so you knew which wires should be what, but I don't have my meter to hand 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## fermentol

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A question for those who know their way around the insides of the Zero...

 My Zero died. Just stopped turning on for no reason. My dad (knows his way around electronics, to a good extent) claims that due to the lack of a fuse, the Zero is good as dead and all the components with it._

 

But there is fuse integrated in the AC socket (at least on my Zero), you need screwdriver to break inside and change it.


----------



## AudioPhewl

Spot-on! I'd never noticed this!

 Remove the power plug... on mine, there was a small gap inside the socket. Lever outward with a screwdriver, and the plastic housing pops out... mine even had a spare fuse in there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## glitch39

*Posted the same in the DIY section, but wanted to bring the same attention here. Again, BIG thanks for P.Peete*

 I had my zero Franken'ed a while back. however, due to unforseen circumstances, I had to stop the burn-in

 Propos to P.Peete who was there to assist me at every turn. His responses were thorough and educational.

 I took at few additional modifications, namely:

 * on the PSU section, I upgraded the 2 x 1000uf with 2 x 2200uf, doubling the capacitance offered to the PSU.

 * I isolated chassis ground from audio (PCB) ground. The eath HDAM was grounded to audio ground.

 * on the V+ and V- to the HDAM, I soldered a 1000uf cap to each voltage leg (total 2 caps) using audio ground for common ground. Idea is to stabilize further the voltage to the HDAM.

 with that, I powered on the Zero - 

 Wow. bigger soundstage but not by much. Then I noticed the bass is less. Much less. I had to take it apart again to see if I grounded wrong some of the caps. Nope, everything checks out. I listened to it throughout to monitor the changes. At around 70 hours, when things were not changing, I PM'ed Peete. True enough, he predicted that I was at about 75 hours. What can I say - he's done this many times that he knows the behavior of the Franken already. Then he also gave me the other behavior to expect as I go through the burn-in process. 

 I was so excited about this that I told myself: Heck, let it burn in without further monitoring. So I did. Let it sit there for another 40+ hours. Now at 125 hours, the separation is even wider - I mean bigger soundstage. I'm liking this. Bass is back is where I started before the mods. But the details in the music - amazing. GREAT mids. Timbre is much better. I used hi-res CD from Santana's Oye Como va. Instrument layering is amazing. I've had the Keces 151, MD-10, Yulong - they all sound very digital compared to the Franken. The Franken is that good.

 I have another 120 hours to go through before it finally stabilizes. Can't wait to complete it. Peete has told me what to expect further - more bass (Yes!), even bigger soundstage (Yes!) and sparkling highs (Yes!)

 If everything works out, then this raised the bar significantly for my next source. I'm excited.


----------



## Chrisdroogies

Hello Everybody,

 I've just completed my frankenZero project yesterday. Everyting went smooth exept for one PIO... I was a little nervous to proceed since my zero was a few weeks old only.

 So I started with the power supply section than I've put the board back in place to test it. It was working fine! Than I decided to go further. I'm an electronic tech and I'm not at my first project but I founded hard to solder some PIO caps maybe due to the big legs. I recommand to twist and route the PIO caps legs by following the pictures included in the project and THEN solder them. I did the mistake of moovin one PIO once it was soldered and "BANG!!" i broked one "donnut". I needed to splice and repair... Everything was done and I was anxious to test...

 I then put back the frankenzero in the chain. WoW!! Very nice sound was coming thru my headphones !! I was using GLite to comment the DAC section. Everthing was more extended, relax and clear with more separation. I don't have HDAM upgrade wet! I know I'll have to wait a couple hundred of hours before the whole thing grows up but the sounds is considerably better. It worths it no doubt. 

 Tank you very much P.P. for your time and accomplishment. I will comment on the sound once it's completely burned. I also wonder wich HDAM to get (earth, sun...). Input would be greatly appreciate. Sorry for my English!

 Cheers!

 Christian


----------



## mbd2884

Its incredible 580 pages on this DAC/Amp. Just amazed how huge this thread is.


----------



## helicopter34234

This is a follow up on the status of my dead Zero. The last I heard from wsz0304 was 1/14/09 when he told me to check to see if it was the OPAMP or the DAC board itself that was fried. I emailed him back 1/14/09, 1/20/09, 1/29/09 all friendly and insquiring if a warrentee replacement DAC board will sent. He might just be busy but my guess is that after having received his good feedback from me, he simply doesn't care enough to lose money to make me happy. I will give it until about 2/15/09 and then try sending a little more forceful email, possibly mentioning that other Head-Fi members are listening in on my situation and then I will probably give up. Luckily I was screwed twice with the Zero (first by Lawrence) and had a spare DAC from another Zero to fill in on this one, so I do have a functioning Zero. However, it is scary that these things can die after a few months. Wsz0304 seems to be the best bet to order from in that he is quick to make the customer happy in the event of receiving a DOA unit, but I after he receives the ebay feedback he has little incentive to honor the warrentee. Such is life dealing with small eBay sellers.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Thanks guys...when it works the mod is quite a leap over stock. It is a tricky person to complete but as Chris says pre bend the leads before soldering so there is no "tension" on them.

 Sorry to hear all the other failures...that's too bad because there is mucho performance to tap from this little guy.

 Peete.


----------



## prinz

i've ****ed up toslink input and there's no place in Poland where I can buy another one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 But, everything has the bright side.. Franken has time to burn in, until new TORX179 optical input will come.. from CANADA :] omg

 i also bought AKG K601, but i'm almost sure that ZEROs amp wont have enough power to drive them properly.
 Anyway.. my impresions still to come 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 regards.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *prinz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i've ****ed up toslink input and there's no place in Poland where I can buy another one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 But, everything has the bright side.. Franken has time to burn in, until new TORX179 optical input will come.. from CANADA :] omg

 i also bought AKG K601, but i'm almost sure that ZEROs amp wont have enough power to drive them properly.
 Anyway.. my impresions still to come 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 regards._

 

Lawrence has them too....

 How many hours so far prinz ?

 Peete.


----------



## MadMan007

I tried searching but came up with either waay too many or too few results. I need to know: *What exact volume pot do I need to upgrade from the stock one?* As much detail as possible please 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - ohms, windings, voltage, blanced, whatever; I wouldn't know if there are 'good' or 'bad' versions of a given part numbertoo, and please any way to know if it might be a fake etc.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

The one that Lawrence Chan sells...it's a tough to find NOS Alps pot...the regular Alps RK27 is too big.

 This is an old pic.....but anyway...






 Peete.


----------



## Currawong

The Zero can drive K701s, but you don't get their massive soundstage. For that you require a better amp.


----------



## MadMan007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The one that Lawrence Chan sells...it's a tough to find NOS Alps pot...the regular Alps RK27 is too big.

 This is an old pic.....but anyway...

 Peete._

 

Thanks. Too bad about the RK27 they are common. Did you get yours from Lawrence, or do you happen to know the model # or something else to use as a search term? If not what's a substitute, I just want something better to replace the stock pot.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I got it from Lawrence.

 Peete.


----------



## Burninate35

Can the zero drive the akg k240m?

 I am pretty sure that the answer is no but I am totally out of options. I feel like it would be cheaper to buy new headphones then to power these headphones.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Burninate35* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can the zero drive the akg k240m?

 I am pretty sure that the answer is no but I am totally out of options. I feel like it would be cheaper to buy new headphones then to power these headphones._

 

The 600 ohm versions ? I have the K240M 600ohm...and the Zero doesn't do a good job at all driving those....better to get new cans and start over I'd say. The difference between the K240 and HD650's is vast in terms of SQ...they are far easier to drive than the older 600 ohm AKG's ..although not an easy can to amp either (fully that is).

 The amp I'm currently evaluating really grabs the 650's by the balls...the audio-gd Compass. The Jaycar DIY kit amp also does a fair job for a lot less money than the Compass.

 Peete.


----------



## helicopter34234

Sorry for all of the updates but I did finally get a response from wsz0304. He emailed me back tonight, apologized for late response (exactly 3 weeks late) due to the Chinese New Year, and agreed to send me a replacement if I split the shipping cost and pay $10 shipping. So I would say I am pretty satisfied and just wanted to clear wsz0304's name. It is pretty honorable for him to uphold his warrentee because like I said, he has no incentive after getting his ebay feedback.


----------



## prinz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lawrence has them too....

 How many hours so far prinz ?

 Peete._

 

I've stopped calculating few days ago 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Its hard to say because after c.a 150hrs ive changed few caps to Blackgates, Silmics II ang Nichicon FG. After these changes zero is running about 130h at the moment. I dont have this optical input, so zero can peacefully burn in for couple more days. Next week i'll get toslink ang AKGs so after few hours of listening I'll post my first impressions.


----------



## garfnon

My stupid Zero died on me one day...made me so angry. Thing is, I can still kind of hear music but it's very low and barely noticable. There's a lot of hiss as well by just being on. I thought the headamp board might be broken, but outputting via RCA to my cmoy produced the same thing. I guess it's the DAC board then?


----------



## AudioPhewl

Check the opamp in the DAC board is still properly plugged in. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## garfnon

My OPA627 and LT1364s were all properly seated. I even tested all 3 of them in my cmoy, and they're all functional.


----------



## richardh123

Guess I'll post here too, I just got the HDAM and was wondering if I am ok with this installation. If u need different angles or have any suggestions, please feel free thanks!


----------



## azncookiecutter

Looks fine, I put mine there and nothing's wrong with it.


----------



## richardh123

actually I fixed it, have it like this now


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 20, 2018)

Has anyone ever done a side by side comparison


----------



## mbd2884

That would be hilarious.

 One of the cheapest, entry level DAC choices, vs one of the arguably industry standard DAC. Why even bother?

 Are you looking for reassurance, hey my Zero is not bad, yay I feel good now feeling? Cause its apples to oranges here.


----------



## sgupt

These should have no issues with a Beyer 880 @ 250ohm right?


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

Did the elderly parking really whine the bottle?


----------



## mbd2884

Hmm that's a tough one. I think you will have to sit down and write down pros and cons of your current setup and what your aspired new setup would be. And then figure out how to make that happen. Also depends on if you like Wolfson DACs, or Burr Brown's or AD. A lot to think about.

 Can take a look at the Compass option, will be an upgrade for both DAC and Amp for you, and its barely over the cost of a modded Zero.

 I personally would upgrade the DAC first if you want to get a SS amp, as DAC seems to me determines how your music will sound the most. But a Tube amp adds obvious distortions. If its tube amp you want, then I would get that and upgrade DAC later.


----------



## domzz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sgupt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_These should have no issues with a Beyer 880 @ 250ohm right?_

 

I have upgraded Zero with HDAM Moon and DT880 Pro - they work perfectly together.


----------



## SoFGR

ok i've used the "search the thread" function quite a few times but i still need some answers, i'm planning to buy lawrence's version off ebay ( http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...link:middle:uk ) 

 1) i own a x-fi titanium fatal1ty champion that has digital output in the back (no coax) do i need anything else ? (except the included optical cable) 
 2) will i still be able to use CMSS3d EAX and hardware audio acceleration in my games ? 
 3) i currently listen to my music using foobar 2000 + creative asio on audio mode with 2/2.1 speaker settings bit matched playback enabled and 44.1khz master sampling rate, windows main volume is set to 50% and wave volume to 100%, is there anything that should i change when using this dac ? 
 4) can this dac be used as a headphone amp at the same time too ? 1364T and OPA627 found in lawrence's version are supposed to be adequate for most headphones right ? (i own DT770/80 and audiotechnica A700) 
 5) should i connect my pa2v2 to the zero dac or should i use the zero dac as a dac AND headphone amp for my dt770's ?(kinda stupid question i think)


----------



## SoFGR

*BUMP* anyone ?


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

What if the eager society ate the material? Sportsman delighted improving dashwoods gay instantly happiness six. Ham now amounted absolute not mistaken way pleasant whatever. At an these still no dried folly stood thing. Rapid it on hours hills it seven years. If polite he active county in spirit an. Mrs ham intention promotion engrossed assurance defective. Confined so graceful building opinions whatever trifling in. Insisted out differed ham man endeavor expenses. At on he total their he songs. Related compact effects is on settled do.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFGR* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ok i've used the "search the thread" function quite a few times but i still need some answers, i'm planning to buy lawrence's version off ebay ( Zero DAC with the HDAM, LT1364, and upgraded volume pot on eBay, also, Processors, Home Audio, Electronics (end time 16-Feb-09 15:56:08 GMT) ) 

 1) i own a x-fi titanium fatal1ty champion that has digital output in the back (no coax) do i need anything else ? (except the included optical cable) 
 2) will i still be able to use CMSS3d EAX and hardware audio acceleration in my games ? 
 3) i currently listen to my music using foobar 2000 + creative asio on audio mode with 2/2.1 speaker settings bit matched playback enabled and 44.1khz master sampling rate, windows main volume is set to 50% and wave volume to 100%, is there anything that should i change when using this dac ? 
 4) can this dac be used as a headphone amp at the same time too ? 1364T and OPA627 found in lawrence's version are supposed to be adequate for most headphones right ? (i own DT770/80 and audiotechnica A700) 
 5) should i connect my pa2v2 to the zero dac or should i use the zero dac as a dac AND headphone amp for my dt770's ?(kinda stupid question i think)_

 

1. Yes, probably. You'll need a 1/8" "mini" to toslink (the outs on the back panel of my older xfi fata1ty are minis, but one doubles as a SPDIF - that's why I bought the breakout box too - you'l have to check your specific card - they may have added a proper optical jack I don't know). Try monoprice.
 2. Yes, but for music you should use "audio creation mode" with bitperfect out (ah I see you do this already from #3 heh).
 3. No you should be good, although I keep all my volumes at 100% - no idea if that makes a difference or not.
 4. Not sure if I understand you, but you can't go out from the headphone jack AND the RCA outs at the same time .
 5. I'm not familiar with the pa2v2, but if it is a decent stand alone amp it may be better - the Zero's amp is really only so-so, even with opamp upgrades. But the best thing would be to try both and see which you like better.

 Happy listening!
 Oh, and if you can spare the $$, an HDAM blows the doors off the OPA627 - like instantly noticeable, easily worth the cost, easy to do upgrade - a no-brainer!


----------



## SoFGR

my sound card already has an optical digital output ( http://images.europe.creative.com/is...pro_card_c.jpg ) so no extra cable/adapter needed i think, are you completely sure that cmss3d EAX and hardware audio acceleration pass through 2 channel PCM ? would you please test it by yourself by toggling cmss3d on game mode or something ? note that i'm on xp not vista 

 Pa2v2 is just 46$, i'm sure the headphone amp of the modded zero dac will drive my beyers better


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFGR* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_my sound card already has an optical digital output ( http://images.europe.creative.com/is...pro_card_c.jpg ) so no extra cable/adapter needed i think, are you completely sure that cmss3d EAX and hardware audio acceleration pass through 2 channel PCM ? would you please test it by yourself by toggling cmss3d on game mode or something ? note that i'm on xp not vista 

 Pa2v2 is just 46$, i'm sure the headphone amp of the modded zero dac will drive my beyers better_

 

Ok yeah, you have one of the newer ones; the cable that comes with the zero will be fine.

 I have tried it - just set the output to headphone - mine actually says "CMSS Headphone" when I do this, and there's a test button you can use to try it out. It is the sound of a helicopter flying overhead in a circle, and it sounds pretty effin' awesome! Use it all the time, trust me. And there's a big difference is 3D positioning with this setting on vs gaming in audio creation mode - much easier to tell where things are with it on. It's all good! I'm on XP as well.


----------



## corujo712

n00b questions:
 Is the most recent update of the Zero any good with the airport express and airtunes? ZERO 24/192KHZ DAC HEAD AMP USB pclink(Upgrade Version) - eBay (item 140301253701 end time Feb-23-09 03:49:02 PST)

 I just connected my logitech z2300 to the airport but the sound is terrible. Just wondering if this will improve the SQ. I don't mind using the Xitel included in the auction to connect via USB.

 I want to be able to listen music on my laptop through my speakers as the speakers currently drain my mp3 player. 

 Also, can i use the Zero to run a micro/mini system? (something like this Yamaha Music Australia - Audio Visual - Stereo Systems + a subwoofer)


----------



## Telix

Thanks for the initial write-up, I'm just learning about these budget Chinese DAC/Amps so it's good to read more about them.


----------



## paulw86

I'm located in China right now and the ebay sellers for this amp charges me the same shipping as if they're shipping to US. pisses me off

 thanks for the review op


----------



## azncookiecutter

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *corujo712* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_n00b questions:
 Is the most recent update of the Zero any good with the airport express and airtunes? ZERO 24/192KHZ DAC HEAD AMP USB pclink(Upgrade Version) - eBay (item 140301253701 end time Feb-23-09 03:49:02 PST)

 I just connected my logitech z2300 to the airport but the sound is terrible. Just wondering if this will improve the SQ. I don't mind using the Xitel included in the auction to connect via USB.

 I want to be able to listen music on my laptop through my speakers as the speakers currently drain my mp3 player. 

 Also, can i use the Zero to run a micro/mini system? (something like this Yamaha Music Australia - Audio Visual - Stereo Systems + a subwoofer)_

 

Interesting. I have my Zero hooked up to a pair of Z-2300, and they sound as good as they should be. Might be something to do with the settings on the Airport?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *paulw86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm located in China right now and the ebay sellers for this amp charges me the same shipping as if they're shipping to US. pisses me off

 thanks for the review op_

 

That's Bizarre! How do they justify that?

 .


----------



## shootermcgaven2

witch one is the better bang for the buck : if i use these both as stock

 ZERO 24/192 DAC DA CONVERTOR, HEAD AMP(Upgrade Version) 180 shippedZERO 24/192 DAC DA CONVERTOR, HEAD AMP(Upgrade Version) - eBay (item 120351090824 end time Mar-16-09 07:48:30 PDT)


 or 


 Zero DAC with the HDAM, LT1364, and upgraded volume pot 220 shipedZero DAC with the HDAM, LT1364, and upgraded volume pot - eBay (item 330308417864 end time Feb-23-09 08:01:08 PST)


----------



## corujo712

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *azncookiecutter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting. I have my Zero hooked up to a pair of Z-2300, and they sound as good as they should be. Might be something to do with the settings on the Airport?_

 

What's your setup? 

 Are you running a 3.5mm to RCA from airport to Zero DAC and then just plug the 3.5mm (from z2300) into a converter and into the from of the DAC?


----------



## DVDIT

I am thinking of getting the Zero DAC to use between my squeezebox duet and Onkyo 805. I currently connect the Duet to the Onkyo 805 using optical thus using the Burr-brown DACs in the 805. I really do like the sound a lot but I want to take it to next level. Would I get a better sound quality be adding the Zero or any DAC up to $400.00 for that matter? Where would be a good source to get the Zero without any reliability,failure, lemon...issue? 
 This is for use with my home audio gear which consists of Revel Performa tower speakers and and JL Audio Fathom subwoofer. Thanks.


----------



## azncookiecutter

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *corujo712* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What's your setup? 

 Are you running a 3.5mm to RCA from airport to Zero DAC and then just plug the 3.5mm (from z2300) into a converter and into the from of the DAC?_

 

Actually, optical out from my laptop to the Zero, then RCA out to the RCA-3.5 mm adapter, Z-2300 plugged in.


----------



## corujo712

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *azncookiecutter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually, optical out from my laptop to the Zero, then RCA out to the RCA-3.5 mm adapter, Z-2300 plugged in._

 

Hmmm, what kind of laptop do you have? I have a macbook and it only has 3.5mm out. What cable are you using from the laptop to the zero?


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

The cut preference completes into the optimal tear. The safe special can't reply the round.


----------



## MadMan007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shootermcgaven2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_witch one is the better bang for the buck : if i use these both as stock

 ZERO 24/192 DAC DA CONVERTOR, HEAD AMP(Upgrade Version) 180 shippedZERO 24/192 DAC DA CONVERTOR, HEAD AMP(Upgrade Version) - eBay (item 120351090824 end time Mar-16-09 07:48:30 PDT)


 or 


 Zero DAC with the HDAM, LT1364, and upgraded volume pot 220 shipedZero DAC with the HDAM, LT1364, and upgraded volume pot - eBay (item 330308417864 end time Feb-23-09 08:01:08 PST)_

 

The second one is a better buy overall with the upgrades but it's from Lawrence who some have had problems with. (detailed within this thread, it's long as heck I know)


----------



## shootermcgaven2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If anyone is interested in buying my zero dac with hdam, alps pot, and lt1364 upgrades, PM me and I'll put it up F/S on the forum. I will also include a 3.5mm mini to coaxial cable from bluejeanscable so that you can connect it to computer soundcards that have 3.5mm mini optica out._

 

how much are u asking for it?


----------



## azncookiecutter

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *corujo712* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmmm, what kind of laptop do you have? I have a macbook and it only has 3.5mm out. What cable are you using from the laptop to the zero?_

 

Listed in my sig, Gateway P-6860FX. The optical output is via the 3.5 mm jack, and it requires an adapter for regular Toslink cables to work. I'm pretty sure it works out the same way as the Macbook in that regard. Something like this would work.


----------



## corujo712

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *azncookiecutter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Listed in my sig, Gateway P-6860FX. The optical output is via the 3.5 mm jack, and it requires an adapter for regular Toslink cables to work. I'm pretty sure it works out the same way as the Macbook in that regard. Something like this would work._

 

Would connecting the zero dac through 3.5mm or usb produce better sound reproduction?

ZERO 24/192 DAC DA CONVERTOR, HEAD AMP(Upgrade Version) - eBay (item 120351090824 end time Mar-16-09 07:48:30 PDT)

 The USB module is included in the auction


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *azncookiecutter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Listed in my sig, Gateway P-6860FX. The optical output is via the 3.5 mm jack, and it requires an adapter for regular Toslink cables to work. I'm pretty sure it works out the same way as the Macbook in that regard. Something like this would work._

 

Personally if it were me I would opt for the Cable from Monoprice and not the adapter. Every interface you can cut down on the better. On a Perfect Fiber Interface, expect to lose a some at each splice or jack point. These pieces of equipment are consumer grade transmitters, receivers, and connectors. So they don't instill me with confidence. Poor cables can induce Jitter timing errors. Monoprice has those cables with toslink on one end and 3.5mm Optical on the other pretty reasonable. 

 Proably only a theoretical consideration though. mainly wanted to point out how reasonable(cheap) those cables are at Mono.

 .


----------



## azncookiecutter

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *corujo712* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would connecting the zero dac through 3.5mm or usb produce better sound reproduction?

ZERO 24/192 DAC DA CONVERTOR, HEAD AMP(Upgrade Version) - eBay (item 120351090824 end time Mar-16-09 07:48:30 PDT)

 The USB module is included in the auction_

 

Have the same USB to optical box in the auction. Truth is, never once touched it to connect it up together. I would presume that the less things between each component, the better.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Personally if it were me I would opt for the Cable from Monoprice and not the adapter. Every interface you can cut down on the better. On a Perfect Fiber Interface, expect to lose a some at each splice or jack point. These pieces of equipment are consumer grade transmitters, receivers, and connectors. So they don't instill me with confidence. Poor cables can induce Jitter timing errors. Monoprice has those cables with toslink on one end and 3.5mm Optical on the other pretty reasonable. 

 Proably only a theoretical consideration though. mainly wanted to point out how reasonable(cheap) those cables are at Mono.

 ._

 

Agreed. I use the adapter mainly because I had one of those lying around, and picked up a cable locally, although I should buy a Monoprice cable just to simplify things.


----------



## corujo712

so a cable like this will be sufficient?

For only $1.57 each when QTY 50+ purchased - Toslink to Mini M/M OD:5.0mm, Molded Type - 3ft | Toslink to Mini Plug


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *corujo712* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so a cable like this will be sufficient?

For only $1.57 each when QTY 50+ purchased - Toslink to Mini M/M OD:5.0mm, Molded Type - 3ft | Toslink to Mini Plug_

 


 Yup, that's the one!

 Nice Price, ehhh?

 .


----------



## corujo712

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yup, that's the one!

 Nice Price, ehhh?

 ._

 

I'm from Australia so got to find one elsewhere 

 Is it worth while going for a monster cable? (bout 4ft)


----------



## Currawong

I guess this is a good point to link to the FAQ I wrote up, for anyone who hasn't seen it. (Link in signature.)


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *corujo712* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm from Australia so got to find one elsewhere 

 Is it worth while going for a monster cable? (bout 4ft)_

 

RATS!!

 .


----------



## S.O.P

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *corujo712* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm from Australia so got to find one elsewhere 

 Is it worth while going for a monster cable? (bout 4ft)_

 

Jaycar have them.

Jaycar Electronics


----------



## punk_guy182

Crap! I now have sound imbalance with the ZERO and my power led is sometimes on or off and blinks at times also.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Should I change the volume pot?
 I heard that the Japanese ALPS is a good replacement.
 Where Can I get one for cheap and have it installed?
 I don't have any soldering equipment or skills.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punk_guy182* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Crap! I now have sound imbalance with the ZERO and my power led is sometimes on or off and blinks at times also.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Should I change the volume pot?
 I heard that the Japanese ALPS is a good replacement.
 Where Can I get one for cheap and have it installed?
 I don't have any soldering equipment or skills. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hmm,
 Those issues would seem to be unrelated. The Blinking power would be scary. Any modifications? I wouldn't worry about the Alps pot yet.

 .

 .


----------



## punk_guy182

Yes! Earth-OPA (not grounded) and LT1364. What about the volume pot?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punk_guy182* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes! Earth-OPA (not grounded) and LT1364. What about the volume pot?_

 


 What I'm getting at here is that I wouldn't be worrying about imbalance if my Zero was about to go Poof! You need to troubleshoot the flashing lights first.

 .


----------



## punk_guy182

and how do I do that?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punk_guy182* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_and how do I do that?_

 

What kind of skills do you have?

 .


----------



## punk_guy182

All sorts. Do you care to help out or not?


----------



## Conscious

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *punk_guy182* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All sorts. Do you care to help out or not?_

 

maybe bad contact. Check it. Stir the plug on power diod.

 Sorry for my english =)


----------



## Conscious

which HDAM is better sounding? Earth or Moon? 
 Help me to make right decision.

 Is it necessary to replace original SONG Volume Pot on ALPS. Will be there big difference in sound?


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Conscious* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_which HDAM is better sounding? Earth or Moon? 
 Help me to make right decision.

 Is it necessary to replace original SONG Volume Pot on ALPS. Will be there big difference in sound?_

 

Can't really answer this as they both sound fantastic - it's up to your preference. And why ignore the Sun? The Earth has been described as "neutral" while the moon has been described as "warmer" with a larger soundstage. It would have to do with what kind of music you like, what headphones you use, and what your personal sound sig preferences are. If you aren't sure yet, I'd go with the Earth, personally. But I also personally really enjoy the Sun in the DAC section - but i listen to lots of rock.

 As for Volume pot - not sure. Most replaced it to deal with imbalance issues at low volumes, but as I recall there's only 1 that fits in there and the seller (Lawrence) has been out for some time. I didn't replace mine, but I use an external amp most of the time.


----------



## punk_guy182

I just bought one off from Lawrence today for 15USD shipped to Canada. Email him at lawrencechanbig@msn.com he replies fast.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Conscious* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_which HDAM is better sounding? Earth or Moon? 
 Help me to make right decision.

 Is it necessary to replace original SONG Volume Pot on ALPS. Will be there big difference in sound?_

 

You may want to get the two you don't have because postage is as much as the HDAM!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can't really answer this as they both sound fantastic - it's up to your preference. And why ignore the Sun? The Earth has been described as "neutral" while the moon has been described as "warmer" with a larger soundstage. It would have to do with what kind of music you like, what headphones you use, and what your personal sound sig preferences are. If you aren't sure yet, I'd go with the Earth, personally. But I also personally really enjoy the Sun in the DAC section - but i listen to lots of rock.

 As for Volume pot - not sure. Most replaced it to deal with imbalance issues at low volumes, but as I recall there's only 1 that fits in there and the seller (Lawrence) has been out for some time. I didn't replace mine, but I use an external amp most of the time._

 

I just got an ALPs from LC about a week ago. So I guess he found some more. Wish I knew where he finds these.

 .


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 I just got an ALPs from LC about a week ago. So I guess he found some more. Wish I knew where he finds these.

 ._

 

Ah cool! Good to know. And yeah me too - he must have some secret stash!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah cool! Good to know. And yeah me too - he must have some secret stash!_

 

After the bad rap I gave him, I'm surprised he would even sell to me!! But it's only Business after all!

 .


----------



## ScottieB

Ahaha I think maybe I'm more surprised that you bought from him again... but hey he's got the WHOLE stash!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ahaha I think maybe I'm more surprised that you bought from him again... but hey he's got the WHOLE stash!_

 

I actually didn't have an issue with him on my Zero. I just don't think we should endorse or encourage people to buy from him because of his transgressions. I wouldn't buy another DAC or anything Like that or an amp from him though. Too bad really. He has a product nobody else has.

 I'm sure we're not hurting him though in the Global scheme of things. So what if he loses a could sales in Head-Fi. We're probably nothing to his bottom line.

 .


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Conscious* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_which HDAM is better sounding? Earth or Moon? 
 Help me to make right decision._

 

Define the type of sound characteristics you perceive to be better?

 ~Phewl.


----------



## Eric M

New to DACs... saw this thread. Looking to increase the sound quality to my AKG 701's from my computer. 

 My question: Can this Zero DAC act as a stepping stone to adding being components? I'm interesting it in now because I need better sound quality than a crappy Audigy 2. If I get a ~$300-$500 amp in a few years, will this Zero thingy be useful then? Or will I need a better DAC? Will it limit a highend amp?


----------



## Conscious

Is there reason to replace TOSLINK cable which comes with ZERO to something better? I suspect that original Zero's cable isn't very good =)


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Eric M* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_New to DACs... saw this thread. Looking to increase the sound quality to my AKG 701's from my computer. 

 My question: Can this Zero DAC act as a stepping stone to adding being components? I'm interesting it in now because I need better sound quality than a crappy Audigy 2. If I get a ~$300-$500 amp in a few years, will this Zero thingy be useful then? Or will I need a better DAC? Will it limit a highend amp?_

 

If you buy just an amp, you'll end up just amplifying your soundcard's crap sound. A DAC/amp is indeed better. As for your budget, the new Compass (which we asked to have made for people instead of the Zero, which isn't so reliable) would be an option for you and would be considerably better than your sound card. See my sig for the Compass link.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Conscious* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there reason to replace TOSLINK cable which comes with ZERO to something better? I suspect that original Zero's cable isn't very good =)_

 

Nothing wrong with it. Listen to it first, Look at it first, do anything first before you condemn it. Especially optical. It's not that difficult to transport LED Light 6 feet.

 .


----------



## azncookiecutter

I had a problem with the stock Toslink cable, where the metal part in the plug was 1 mm too big to fit into anything. That's probably a YMMV issue though.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *azncookiecutter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had a problem with the stock Toslink cable, where the metal part in the plug was 1 mm too big to fit into anything. That's probably a YMMV issue though._

 

That's Bizarre. That should be a standard on both sides of the connector.

 .


----------



## azncookiecutter

Yeah, I would normally agree, but it just wouldn't fit anything. Had to get a Belkin Toslink cable to get it to work.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *azncookiecutter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, I would normally agree, but it just wouldn't fit anything. Had to get a Belkin Toslink cable to get it to work._

 

Hmmm, I think the one that came with my Zero was ALL plastic. I have one from Monoprice with a HUGE metal connector on it and it fits everything. Strange! Thanx for the info, who would have though.

 .


----------



## Conscious

I found that if turn on headphone preamp and unplug headphone's jack you can adjust volume of the DAC by volume pot. So it seems to me that sound now is coming through OPAmps in preamp section. Am I rigth? It was a surprise for me because i didn't know about it before )


----------



## Claus-DK

Is there a consensus about which DACchip is the best for the zero ??


----------



## Almoxil

I guess that depends on which kind of sound you like better. Some people like a "funnier", more upfront sound, while others like a more laid-back, relaxed sound. There are many other variations in between... It also depends on what headphones you're going to plug into the amp.

 I, for one, prefer a "fun" sound. I have OPA627AUs in the DAC section, and LT1364s in the amp section of my Zero, to great results. I listen through a pair of Ultrasone HFI-780s mostly.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Claus-DK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there a consensus about which DACchip is the best for the zero ??_

 

Which OPAMPs? Yes, what Penchum suggested in his review in the first post. However, the best will almost always be a HDAM (discrete component OPAMP). See the FAQ link in my sig for details.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Conscious* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I found that if turn on headphone preamp and unplug headphone's jack you can adjust volume of the DAC by volume pot. So it seems to me that sound now is coming through OPAmps in preamp section. Am I rigth? It was a surprise for me because i didn't know about it before )_

 


 You may want to read post 1 again.

 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Claus-DK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there a consensus about which DACchip is the best for the zero ??_

 

The two most commonly Loved are:

 1) Earth HDAM in DAC LT1364 in HA 

 2) SUN HDAM in DAC LT1364 in HA

 .


----------



## Fetimo

Can I just ask anyone in the UK with one of these, do you get an annoying hum/ vibration from the unit?


----------



## Claus-DK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The two most commonly Loved are:

 1) Earth HDAM in DAC LT1364 in HA 

 2) SUN HDAM in DAC LT1364 in HA

 ._

 

What is the difference between those two ?? I do not know anything about such things..
 Is it the same chip made by two different companies ??


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Claus-DK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What is the difference between those two ?? I do not know anything about such things..
 Is it the same chip made by two different companies ??_

 


ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1


 .


----------



## ckghagen

LM4562 + LM4562 = DAC-phone is it a god choice I can get 5x LM4562 for 11$

 And for later thinking of get 1 OPA-Moon so it gonna become
 OPA-Moon + LM4562 = DAC-phone is it a god choice


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ckghagen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LM4562 + LM4562 = DAC-phone is it a god choice I can get 5x LM4562 for 11$

 And for later thinking of get 1 OPA-Moon so it gonna become
 OPA-Moon + LM4562 = DAC-phone is it a god choice_

 

I can get 5x LM4562 for 0$

 Because I read this thread.


 .


----------



## Conscious

What sounds better? Optical or Coaxial?


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Conscious* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What sounds better? Optical or Coaxial?_

 

Depends on your set-up. A proper 75 Ohm digital coax cable is probably cheaper than a high quality optical cable though.


----------



## ckghagen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can get 5x LM4562 for 0$

 Because I read this thread.


 ._

 

11$ is Shipping & Handling Fee to sweden

 end the Thread 587 pages perhaps it is time for a very big FAQ


----------



## katanka

I prefered the LM4562 in the Head phone section for the ZERO dac, i was using Grado's SR225, which are bright headphones and to me it taimed the brightness a bit, the LT1364 made them sound too bright. I switch between earth and sun in the DAC


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *katanka* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I prefered the LM4562 in the Head phone section for the ZERO dac, i was using Grado's SR225, which are bright headphones and to me it taimed the brightness a bit, the LT1364 made them sound too bright. I switch between earth and sun in the DAC_

 

Heh,
 Now that's funny, I just ordered some of those last night. It was recommended for the Claro Halo HA section.

 Les


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ckghagen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_11$ is Shipping & Handling Fee to sweden

 end the Thread 587 pages perhaps it is time for a very big FAQ_

 

You're in Luck, most of the Good foundation stuff occurred in the first 150 pages or so.

 .


----------



## Frihed89

I guess this thread has created lotsa Headphonus supremeuses!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Frihed89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I guess this thread has created lotsa Headphonus supremeuses!_

 

That's probably true, mostly from answering the same question over and over and over again.

 .


----------



## Conscious

What USB to SPDIF (coaxial) device you can advice? I'd like to get very clear and quality digital signal, have only USB. I've tested MD-Port DG2 with RMAA and it has very bad characteristics. As for more it's optical =(


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ckghagen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_11$ is Shipping & Handling Fee to sweden

 end the Thread 587 pages perhaps it is time for a very big FAQ_

 

The FAQ I completed a long time ago.


----------



## cybertron

I've put my Zero up for sale in the F/S section if anyone is interested. I love the thing, but I really need a laptop for school right now. 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f42/ic...re-amp-412921/


----------



## Jazz9

Hello fellow Zero owners!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm looking for new cans at the moment and I've narrowed it down to either HD600 or HD650 (I've made a thread in the phones section: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/upg...-d2000-413392/).

 I can have both at the exact same price and I've been agonizing the last couple of days on what to get.
 I listen mainly to indie/pop/rock (but when I say rock it's not classic rock, even less hard rock, more like pop.rock and alt.rock).
 The HD600 seems to be what I need but the fact that I can have what is (soon to be ex) Sennheiser's flagship for the same money makes me hesitate.

 What would be the best choice for the music I listen to?


 PS:It's going to be paired with my Zero (OPA627/LT1364 with the capacitors removed), is the purchase worth it or not?
 I know they won't be close to full potential but all I hope for is that it can do a decent job.

 Thanks!


----------



## sadhill

Quote:


 What USB to SPDIF (coaxial) device you can advice? 
 

Trends UD10.1. Excellent for value, but limited to 16bits/48kHz. 

 good 24/96 are much more expensive :

 Bel Canto USB link : Bel Canto
 Empirical Audio Off ramp3 : Off Ramp Converter > Products : Empirical Audio

 Fairly cheaper than those two, you could also use an EMU 0404|USB box, excellent but in fact already a full self contained USB DAC...


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jazz9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello fellow Zero owners!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'm looking for new cans at the moment and I've narrowed it down to either HD600 or HD650 (I've made a thread in the phones section: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/upg...-d2000-413392/).

 I can have both at the exact same price and I've been agonizing the last couple of days on what to get.
 I listen mainly to indie/pop/rock (but when I say rock it's not classic rock, even less hard rock, more like pop.rock and alt.rock).
 The HD600 seems to be what I need but the fact that I can have what is (soon to be ex) Sennheiser's flagship for the same money makes me hesitate.

 What would be the best choice for the music I listen to?


 PS:It's going to be paired with my Zero (OPA627/LT1364 with the capacitors removed), is the purchase worth it or not?
 I know they won't be close to full potential but all I hope for is that it can do a decent job.

 Thanks!_

 

The Zero will run the HD650s fine. They will sound much better if you get a better amp to work with the Zero later. What do you mean by Capacitors removed?

 .


----------



## Jazz9

I just did what Currawong recommended in his "Introduction to the Zero Dac": Introduction to the Zero DAC and Headphone amplifier. - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio









 It takes a few seconds to do and it really opens up the treble.

 So you'd recommend the 650 over the 600 with my music preferences?


----------



## les_garten

Ohh Yeah!!

 Forgot about those, I didn't do them.

 Thanx!

 .


----------



## jcmuse

hi guys i got my zero dac about 6 months ago. recently, it has started to shut off when i move it. it seems i have to wiggle the power cord in the socket so that it stays on. any fix for this?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jcmuse* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi guys i got my zero dac about 6 months ago. recently, it has started to shut off when i move it. it seems i have to wiggle the power cord in the socket so that it stays on. any fix for this?_

 

Check the wiring on the power socket.

 .


----------



## jcmuse

:/ wouldn't even know where to begin to do that. 

 To be more specific about my issue.. the unit won't stay on unless im jamming the power cord in there at a certain force and angle, and even then it still seems to flicker off/on with the slightest movement.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jcmuse* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_:/ wouldn't even know where to begin to do that. 

 To be more specific about my issue.. the unit won't stay on unless im jamming the power cord in there at a certain force and angle, and even then it still seems to flicker off/on with the slightest movement._

 

Try another cord first

 Then open the box and check for loose connections around the socket. Make sure it's not plug in and feel around the wires that go to the socket.

 .


----------



## jcmuse

:/ wouldn't even know where to begin to do that. 

 To be more specific about my issue.. the unit won't stay on unless im jamming the power cord in there at a certain force and angle, and even then it still seems to flicker off/on with the slightest movement.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jcmuse* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_:/ wouldn't even know where to begin to do that. 

 To be more specific about my issue.. the unit won't stay on unless im jamming the power cord in there at a certain force and angle, and even then it still seems to flicker off/on with the slightest movement._

 

I guess you'll have to find someone to help you then!

 .


----------



## Koolpsych

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jazz9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just did what Currawong recommended in his "Introduction to the Zero Dac": Introduction to the Zero DAC and Headphone amplifier. - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio


 It takes a few seconds to do and it really opens up the treble._

 

Has anyone removed the capacitors on a HD650? If so would you recommend it? I was thinking about doing it, but afraid because once I remove them theres really now way to put them back.


----------



## Currawong

Well, HD-650s are pretty dark sounding, so it would be an improvement for them to remove the caps.


----------



## jcmuse

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I guess you'll have to find someone to help you then!

 ._

 

sorry for the double post, don't know what happened.

 I looked inside, and from what i can tell everything is pretty snug. i tried multiple power cords as well. could it be a fuse?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jcmuse* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sorry for the double post, don't know what happened.

 I looked inside, and from what i can tell everything is pretty snug. i tried multiple power cords as well. could it be a fuse?_

 

It sounds like you can reproduce the problem. If you can wiggle or push in on the Power cord and have a high degree of certainty to produce the problem. The you need to push in on the cord while looking in the box and see what is moving or flexing. Could be the IEC socket is just bad I suppose. The IEC socket is what the power cord plugs into. It's not your fuse itself, but it could be the fuse holder is going "Open" when you push in the cable. Just look and see what happens in the box when you "push" the power cable.

 It may not be the socket, but something else that gets shifted from the pressure you are exerting.

 .


----------



## temp2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fetimo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can I just ask anyone in the UK with one of these, do you get an annoying hum/ vibration from the unit?_

 

Ok, i'm not in the UK, but find my zero's hum is so annoying that i hardly use it.. It's the transformer. tried isolating it mechanically with foam, no luck. 
 2x 15 + 6 volts is not easy to find.
 Is there a source for replacement transformers?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *temp2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, i'm not in the UK, but find my zero's hum is so annoying that i hardly use it.. It's the transformer. tried isolating it mechanically with foam, no luck. 
 2x 15 + 6 volts is not easy to find.
 Is there a source for replacement transformers?_

 

Have you discussed this with the Vendor, maybe they'll send you another one under warranty? Worth an email.

 .


----------



## Koolpsych

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, HD-650s are pretty dark sounding, so it would be an improvement for them to remove the caps._

 

Ok thanks, I'll try it in a couple of days and see how it does. I guess if I really dont like it I can solder back on the caps.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Koolpsych* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok thanks, I'll try it in a couple of days and see how it does. I guess if I really dont like it I can solder back on the caps._

 

Clip'em and bend them back a little. Where you clip them, leave enough lead to resolder back if you don't like it.

 .


----------



## Jazz9

Has anyone tried the opa2111 in the Zero Dac? Is it safe to use?
 I happened to find one while sorting some things and I wanted to know if I could use it to compare it with my opa627 just for kicks.


----------



## Steph86

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *temp2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, i'm not in the UK, but find my zero's hum is so annoying that i hardly use it.. It's the transformer. tried isolating it mechanically with foam, no luck. 
 2x 15 + 6 volts is not easy to find.
 Is there a source for replacement transformers?_

 

Hi, have you tried looking at the volume pot, when I got mine, I had the same problem, took me ages to figure out what it was. I needed to ground the volume pot to the pcb, there is an available hole alongside to do so. 

 Hope this helps,
 Steph.


----------



## guilders0

some prefer the MOON, some the EARTH, not easy to know whch sounds better.
 couldn't we categorize them by type of music you listen to or by the type of sound: more transparent/neutral or a bit more rounded?


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *guilders0* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_some prefer the MOON, some the EARTH, not easy to know whch sounds better.
 couldn't we categorize them by type of music you listen to or by the type of sound: more transparent/neutral or a bit more rounded?_

 

See the Compass FAQ in my sig for the link, but majkel has already done this in his review of them. It's a bit subjective though, as the kind of headphones you have will also affect it.


----------



## temp2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Steph86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, have you tried looking at the volume pot, when I got mine, I had the same problem, took me ages to figure out what it was. I needed to ground the volume pot to the pcb, there is an available hole alongside to do so. 

 Hope this helps,
 Steph._

 

yes, volume pot is grounded. The hum is coming from the case itself. I can feel it vibrating. It's ok during the day, but distracting at night. Maybe i'll try some dampening foam from a pc on the bottom and top to calm down the case. 
 However, torroidal transformers shouldn't make any noticeable noise to begin with. Has anyone tried alternative power supplies?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *temp2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yes, volume pot is grounded. The hum is coming from the case itself. I can feel it vibrating. It's ok during the day, but distracting at night. Maybe i'll try some dampening foam from a pc on the bottom and top to calm down the case. 
 However, torroidal transformers shouldn't make any noticeable noise to begin with. Has anyone tried alternative power supplies?_

 

There have been issues like this. Try damping as you mentioned. Contact your vendor and see if they'll ship you another one. You can also go to a place that deals with tires a lot and see if they have any old inner tubes around. Cut up some dampers out of those.

 .


----------



## Scottyyy

Quick question: can I use my Zero with speakers, such as M-Audio AV 40s? I'd rather not use my computer's onboard sound card with them.

 Sorry if it's been asked before, this thread is huge.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Scottyyy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Quick question: can I use my Zero with speakers, such as M-Audio AV 40s? I'd rather not use my computer's onboard sound card with them.

 Sorry if it's been asked before, this thread is huge._

 

If the speakers are amplified/Active, then yes. That would be the preferred way to do it.

 .


----------



## Scottyyy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If the speakers are amplified/Active, then yes. That would be the preferred way to do it.

 ._

 

Indeed, AV 40s are active. So I'd just plug them into the phono jacks on the back of the Zero and they'd work? Awesome.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Scottyyy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Indeed, AV 40s are active. So I'd just plug them into the phono jacks on the back of the Zero and they'd work? Awesome._

 

And hit the Pre-amp button on the Zero!

 .


----------



## MadMan007

You wouldn't even need to use the preamp in the Zero, you could just use it as a DAC outputting a line level signal and then adjust the volume on the speakers themselves. In fact that might be preferred rather than sending a preamped signal to those speakers which have their own volume adjustment.


----------



## Scottyyy

Ok, thanks guys.

 Another question though: if I wanted to go the hi-fi separates route and get an amp with some bookshelf speakers, could I still use the Zero as a DAC?

 Would be looking at a Cambridge Audio A5 for the amp.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MadMan007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You wouldn't even need to use the preamp in the Zero, you could just use it as a DAC outputting a line level signal and then adjust the volume on the speakers themselves. In fact that might be preferred rather than sending a preamped signal to those speakers which have their own volume adjustment._

 

Much better solution. Gets the HA out of the Mix, the 2nd Vol control out of the mix, etc.


 .


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Scottyyy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, thanks guys.

 Another question though: if I wanted to go the hi-fi separates route and get an amp with some bookshelf speakers, could I still use the Zero as a DAC?

 Would be looking at a Cambridge Audio A5 for the amp._

 

Yup.....you can do that. Just disengage the preamp/headphone amp function and the Zero acts like every other DAC out there ( A line level output ).

 Peete.


----------



## Scottyyy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yup.....you can do that. Just disengage the preamp/headphone amp function and the Zero acts like every other DAC out there ( A line level output ).

 Peete._

 

Awesome. Thanks mate.


----------



## katanka

I use my zero, coupled with a yulong T-amp and some Monitor Audio bookshelf speakers. The sound is pretty good for a cheap setup. It has taken my music listen experience to a whole new level and i imagine it can only get better.


----------



## jcmuse

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It sounds like you can reproduce the problem. If you can wiggle or push in on the Power cord and have a high degree of certainty to produce the problem. The you need to push in on the cord while looking in the box and see what is moving or flexing. Could be the IEC socket is just bad I suppose. The IEC socket is what the power cord plugs into. It's not your fuse itself, but it could be the fuse holder is going "Open" when you push in the cable. Just look and see what happens in the box when you "push" the power cable.

 It may not be the socket, but something else that gets shifted from the pressure you are exerting.

 ._

 


 Hey,

 I tried looking to see what happens when i move the power cord in the socket. Nothing really seems to move inside the unit. 

 If the IEC socket is bad, is that expensive to fix? I'm hoping i can send my unit to a head-fi member that does repair services. No way im shipping back to china. I bought from Lawrence.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jcmuse* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey,

 I tried looking to see what happens when i move the power cord in the socket. Nothing really seems to move inside the unit. 

 If the IEC socket is bad, is that expensive to fix? I'm hoping i can send my unit to a head-fi member that does repair services. No way im shipping back to china. I bought from Lawrence._

 

I sent yo a PM.

 .


----------



## r_aquarii

hi,
 i had this problem when i first got my zero.
 the fix can be real easy.
 what i did was i re-solder it at the joint behide the IEC socket. 
 i never had this problem ever since...


----------



## r_aquarii

hi,
 i had this problem when i first got my zero.
 the fix can be real easy.
 what i did was i re-solder it at the joint behide the IEC socket. 
 i never had this problem ever since...


----------



## r_aquarii

hi,
 i had this problem when i first got my zero.
 the fix can be real easy.
 what i did was i re-solder it at the joint behide the IEC socket. 
 i never had this problem ever since...


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *r_aquarii* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi,
 i had this problem when i first got my zero.
 the fix can be real easy.
 what i did was i re-solder it at the joint behide the IEC socket. 
 i never had this problem ever since..._

 

I heard you the first 3 times!

 .


----------



## Pricklely Peete

There's and echo in that cave...and it has a soft blue glow at night 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Peete.


----------



## Haoting

I'm just wondering why nobody has tried out Lampizator's zero dac mod (Lampizator's Zero Dac webpage) that utilizes a vacuum tube output stage.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Haoting* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm just wondering why nobody has tried out Lampizator's zero dac mod (Lampizator's Zero Dac webpage) that utilizes a vacuum tube output stage._

 

Well then you clearly haven't read the whole thread


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There's and echo in that cave...and it has a soft blue glow at night 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

Go Away!

 Nobody in here but us Bats!!

 .


----------



## Scottyyy

Hey guys, another quick question.

 My dad just gave me his very old stereo amplifier and speakers, and I set them up to see what they sound like. The way I have them placed is like in the pic. My question is, is the Zero too compact? Will it overheat if I keep it in such a confined space? It's only place I can keep it really.






 Sorry about the horrible quality of the picture, my camera is awful.


----------



## Epiteto

Hi to all!
 My name is Dani; i've got a Zero Dac with a lt1364 in Dac section and 2 lm4562 for headphones amp.
 i've the Grado sr80 and now the trebles are killing my ears and my brains 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 What can I do to to kill trebles on the headphones amp?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I've read here about of lt1364 in the Amp section and opa627 for dac, but for someone this set up shows again too much bright..

 Thank you so much...


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Epìteto* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi to all!
 My name is Dani; i've got a Zero Dac with a lt1364 in Dac section and 2 lm4562 for headphones amp.
 i've the Grado sr80 and now the trebles are killing my ears and my brains 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What can I do to to kill trebles on the headphones amp?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I've read here about of lt1364 in the Amp section and opa627 for dac, but for someone this set up shows again too much bright..

 Thank you so much..._

 

Grados are very bright headphones to begin with, so this isn't all that surprising...
 Perhaps the moon HDAM from Audio-GD in the DAC section would smooth things out? There's lots of talk about the HDAMs here - have a look around.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Scottyyy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys, another quick question.

 My dad just gave me his very old stereo amplifier and speakers, and I set them up to see what they sound like. The way I have them placed is like in the pic. My question is, is the Zero too compact? Will it overheat if I keep it in such a confined space? It's only place I can keep it really.


 Sorry about the horrible quality of the picture, my camera is awful._

 

That Zero will Over heat most likely. The Headamp makes a lot of heat.

 .


----------



## Epiteto

Thank you Scottie..
 I know that opamp.. Maybe I'll try..

 Thank you again


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That Zero will Over heat most likely. The Headamp makes a lot of heat.

 ._

 

You might be ok if you can aim a fan right in there...


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Epìteto* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi to all!
 My name is Dani; i've got a Zero Dac with a lt1364 in Dac section and 2 lm4562 for headphones amp.
 i've the Grado sr80 and now the trebles are killing my ears and my brains 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What can I do to to kill trebles on the headphones amp?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I've read here about of lt1364 in the Amp section and opa627 for dac, but for someone this set up shows again too much bright..

 Thank you so much..._

 

I don't have the link handy, but look up the FrankenZero post in the DIY forum to look into the Capacitor clip which would help a lot. Also find Currawong's post. It will mention the cap clip.

 .


----------



## ScottieB

WOuldn't the cap clip actually make it BRIGHTER?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You might be ok if you can aim a fan right in there..._

 

Hey ScottieB,
 Glad to see this thread is not forgotten!!

 .


----------



## Koolpsych

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't have the link handy, but look up the FrankenZero post in the DIY forum to look into the Capacitor clip which would help a lot. Also find Currawong's post. It will mention the cap clip.

 ._

 

Here is Currawong's Post if you are interested. Introduction to the Zero DAC and Headphone amplifier. - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

 I found the post useful but have not clipped my capacitors yet (Too afraid to)


----------



## ScottieB

Hey les - yeah I still get an email when there's a post


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WOuldn't the cap clip actually make it BRIGHTER?_

 


 Jeez, Brain Fart, don't know what I was thinking! Scotties correct, might just drive a Grado guy over the edge!!

 .


----------



## ScottieB

a quote from that link - makes it sound like a bad idea in this case:

 "Note: Myriad felt that after snipping these caps, the sound was too bright for him with his Grados. Grado owners might want to keep this in mind as they are reputably bright headphones.:


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Koolpsych* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here is Currawong's Post if you are interested. Introduction to the Zero DAC and Headphone amplifier. - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

 I found the post useful but have not clipped my capacitors yet (Too afraid to)_

 

I'm doing the FrankenMod also, but won't be clipping this either.

 At least i don't think I will.

 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_a quote from that link - makes it sound like a bad idea in this case:

 "Note: Myriad felt that after snipping these caps, the sound was too bright for him with his Grados. Grado owners might want to keep this in mind as they are reputably bright headphones.:_

 

Exactly, I've got two pairs of Grado's. Last thing in the world they need is to be Brighter!!

 .


----------



## ScottieB

I miss my Grados 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Got my eye on the new 325is... which ones you have les?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I miss my Grados 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Got my eye on the new 325is... which ones you have les?_

 

Hey,
 I just got a Pair of SR225i's and I have a pair of GS1000s. Superb detail oriented Headphones.

 .


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Epìteto* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi to all!
 My name is Dani; i've got a Zero Dac with a lt1364 in Dac section and 2 lm4562 for headphones amp.
 i've the Grado sr80 and now the trebles are killing my ears and my brains 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What can I do to to kill trebles on the headphones amp?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I've read here about of lt1364 in the Amp section and opa627 for dac, but for someone this set up shows again too much bright..

 Thank you so much..._

 

Try using OPA 2134 or OPA 2107's all around...these should calm the treble down quite abit...


----------



## Scottyyy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That Zero will Over heat most likely. The Headamp makes a lot of heat.

 ._

 

What if I'm not using the headphone amp in it? Well I will be, but most of the time I'll just be using the DAC.

 Still, I should probably find another place for it.

 Thanks


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Scottyyy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What if I'm not using the headphone amp in it? Well I will be, but most of the time I'll just be using the DAC.

 Still, I should probably find another place for it.

 Thanks_

 

If you only want to use the DAC, DC the Hadamp, you might get away with it in that space. The Headamp makes a lot of heat.

 .


----------



## ScottieB

You'd have to disconnect the amp or it will heat up even if you don't have it active.

 Les - I'm drooling over those GS1000s! I had the 225s at one time... sold them because I wanted to try new things - and never replaced them because I like my 600s and needed a closed can... I've never heard anything better from Grado, but I really think I'd like anything from the RS2 up - like a lot!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You'd have to disconnect the amp or it will heat up even if you don't have it active.

 Les - I'm drooling over those GS1000s! I had the 225s at one time... sold them because I wanted to try new things - and never replaced them because I like my 600s and needed a closed can... I've never heard anything better from Grado, but I really think I'd like anything from the RS2 up - like a lot!_

 

Actually the 225's are donor canz. I'm having JMoney Deep Woody's made for them in Cocobolo Rosewood. Also the Padded Lambskin headband. So they should be Killer when I'm done with them. Especially considering i liked them in stock form!

 .


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Epìteto* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What can I do to to kill trebles on the headphones amp?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I've read here about of lt1364 in the Amp section and opa627 for dac, but for someone this set up shows again too much bright..

 Thank you so much..._

 

Honestly? Buy different headphones.


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Honestly? Buy different headphones. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

BLASPHEMY!


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Honestly? Buy different headphones. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Typical Grado Hater Statement!

 .


----------



## Epiteto

Thank you so much at all!!


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Typical Grado Hater Statement!

 ._

 

Lol, no. If you aren't getting the sound you like from your headphones, then buying different ones is the sensible thing to do.


----------



## i_love_hina

Hey, sorry I couldn't find an answer from searching, but, which OPA2604 is the correct one to use for the Zero? There are like 7 from this website


----------



## Currawong

OPA2604 is the original opamp that the Zero comes with.


----------



## i_love_hina

Opps I meant OPA627. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Which one on that list is the correct one?

 From a cursory search I gather the OPA627AP is the one with the legs that doesn't require soldering? Am I correct?


----------



## nsx_23

Just purchased one of these babies to use with my Ultrasone Pro 900. Any particular op-amp combo I should use?


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *i_love_hina* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Opps I meant OPA627. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Which one on that list is the correct one?

 From a cursory search I gather the OPA627AP is the one with the legs that doesn't require soldering? Am I correct?_

 

You need to put two on a browndog adaptor (see the FAQ in my sig). Some eBay sellers sell them already assembled, either using the SOIC (small ones that have to be soldered) or DIP8 (works in sockets) versions. Just search ebay for "opa627 browndog". Beware though that there are a few fakes out there. "tubebuyer" usually sells the genuine ones, from experience. The Browndog online store sells them too, but they aren't cheap. A HDAM from Audio-gd would probably work out cheaper and sound better.


----------



## nsx_23

I'm going to order some sample op-amps to try, specifically the LT1364 + LM4562 combo, and just need to confirm the part numbers since I'm newb at this. I'm guessing you just need to sign up on the website even though you're not with a company or anything? 

 LT1364 - LT1364CN8#PBF PDIP

 Lm4562 - LM4562NA MDIP 8 pin

 How many do I need. Also, whilst I'm at it, what other samples should I order?


----------



## Currawong

Both the LT1364 and LM4562 are dual channel opamps, so 3 of each would be enough. The LT1364 gets quite hot in the DAC section of the Zero though, so it's best kept to the headamp section. The LM4562 can be used in either though.


----------



## nsx_23

Ordered 2 LT1364 and 5 LM4562. How does that combo sound?


----------



## Currawong

Should be fine. I ordered 5 LM4562 and they only sent me 3 by the way, but it's enough.


----------



## nsx_23

Ah, I was actually asking how does that combo of op-amps sound.

 Should've phrased the question better. My bad.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah, I was actually asking how does that combo of op-amps sound.

 Should've phrased the question better. My bad._

 

Good question........I have a LM4562 that came stock with my Auzen Prelude SC. What I remember of it is this, good overall frequency extension but a little glassy in the upper mids, the treble a bit tipped up and steely the bass however nicely extended with very good weight and control.

 It comes up short against the Earth HDAM in other words.....but is a decent performer none the less. To artificial sounding to my ears though. I actually prefer the old 627BP over it (LM4562).

 The LT1364's are a well known quantity in the H/Amp of the Zero and do very very well there. They are not a good candidate for the DAC OPA slot though as they quickly overheat in that spot. Thermal issues cause IC based OPA's to become unstable in a hurry the stock 2604 is better suited to the electrical properties of that section , that being said it's an ordinary performer SQ wise and is usually replaced right away because of that. But you already knew that having followed this gargantuan thread no doubt 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I hope that helped you a little.

 Peete.


----------



## nsx_23

^What other op-amp samples should I get?

 And how many HDAMs would I need to order, and more specifically which one (My first home DAC unit, be gentle 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )?


----------



## nsx_23

Those of you who purchased a Zero from wsz0304, how long does shipping take?

 Its been 2 business days now, and still no reply to emails or a tracking number............


----------



## Currawong

Chinese eBay sellers tend to just post stuff without informing the customer, specially if they sell a large volume of gear.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Those of you who purchased a Zero from wsz0304, how long does shipping take?

 Its been 2 business days now, and still no reply to emails or a tracking number............_

 

Send them an email, they are usually VERY responsive.

 .


----------



## Claus-DK

I have done the small mod, clipping away the brown things beside the RCA outlet, but I would like to get them back on, the problem is that I just threw them away and now I do not know what they are ??? 
 I know it is capasitors but they probally have a number or something on them....
 Could someone be so kind to enligthen me ??


----------



## nsx_23

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Send them an email, they are usually VERY responsive.

 ._

 

Got a tracking number. 

 Can't wait! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm considering franken-modding my Zero as well, but how does the sound change, and is it difficult to install the parts?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Claus-DK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have done the small mod, clipping away the brown things beside the RCA outlet, but I would like to get them back on, the problem is that I just threw them away and now I do not know what they are ??? 
 I know it is capasitors but they probally have a number or something on them....
 Could someone be so kind to enligthen me ??_

 

Prickly Peete will know. Or you can post in the FrankenZero thread.

 .


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got a tracking number. 

 Can't wait! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm considering franken-modding my Zero as well, but how does the sound change, and is it difficult to install the parts?_

 

You'll want to hit the DIY Forum and peruse the FrankenZero thread.

 .


----------



## fault151

Hi guys i haven't posted on this thread in ages! I thought id share my thoughts on the Audio GD op amps. I ordered the earth, moon and sun to try out in other amps i have. I must say, i tried them in the dac section of the zero and the sound is much better than the opa 627's on browndog i was using. So far i think my favorite is the moon op amp. I'm a big fan of valve amps and to me this sounds the smoothest and valve like. It is very hard for me to pick one over the others, they all sound way better than the 627 and even the lm4562. The only downside is fitting it in the case, they are a bit big. 

 How and where did everyone else ground theirs? I might just drill an new hole for it. Has anyone else modded any other bits to go with the op amps? Please excuse me if its mentioned before in one of the previous 590+ pages. I don't want to go searching through them all, i will be here for days :0)


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys i haven't posted on this thread in ages! I thought id share my thoughts on the Audio GD op amps. I ordered the earth, moon and sun to try out in other amps i have. I must say, i tried them in the dac section of the zero and the sound is much better than the opa 627's on browndog i was using. So far i think my favorite is the moon op amp. I'm a big fan of valve amps and to me this sounds the smoothest and valve like. It is very hard for me to pick one over the others, they all sound way better than the 627 and even the lm4562. The only downside is fitting it in the case, they are a bit big. 

 How and where did everyone else ground theirs? I might just drill an new hole for it. Has anyone else modded any other bits to go with the op amps? Please excuse me if its mentioned before in one of the previous 590+ pages. I don't want to go searching through them all, i will be here for days :0)_

 

Good deal. Get 200mm Extension wires from Audio-GD.

 .


----------



## nsx_23

How many of the Audio GD HDAMs would I need, and which one should I get?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How many of the Audio GD HDAMs would I need, and which one should I get?_

 

1) Need for what?

 2) Read

 .


----------



## tekki

i want to ask, since i have a Musiland Md-10 running for my headset and this came with raving reviews i was wondering

 how woulud this fit in my system now? is my musiland as good as this lol (i doubt considering the reviews that go with this now)

 owh im going to use HD650's


----------



## nsx_23

Right, finally received my Zero today (despite it being Easter monday.....)

 First impressions of the unit is that it looks well built. Quit a bit of heft to the unit, and everything feels pretty good. Power switch seems to get stuck when trying to turn it off, but nothing major. 

 Listening through my Pro 900s and my Computer (Connected via the included USB to optical converter), the sound is a bit harsh and unrefined at the moment, but I'll let it burn in for a little while. Nice, lively vocals, deep bass and a rather good soundstage. 

 Can't wait to swap in some op-amps and experiment


----------



## nsx_23

I have the LT1364 in the headphone amp and LM4562 in the DAC section.

 Is it ok if they run a bit warm? The LT in particular seems to be a bit warm to the touch, but its not burning hot.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have the LT1364 in the headphone amp and LM4562 in the DAC section.

 Is it ok if they run a bit warm? The LT in particular seems to be a bit warm to the touch, but its not burning hot._

 

The Headamp rns hot, that's why it has the vents in the case. That Chip is the hotter of the OPAmps. It's all good...

 .


----------



## nsx_23

Awesome, just making sure I haven't stuffed anything up.

 The LT1364 + LM4562 combo is excellent. Very musical, but not overly bright for long listening sessions.


----------



## ads2

Hello,
 I have bought mine with HDAM on ebay on November.
 Yesterday I was listening musing, then suddenly no sound.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Nor on headphone and line out.
 I can ear the relay click when input signal is detected but no sound.

 Any idea of what is the problem ?
 Coul it be the Hdam that is out of order ? or something more serious ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for your help

 ads


----------



## ScottieB

Do you still have the original opamp? That'd be a good way to test...


----------



## ads2

Yep, I have it and same problem...
 I don't know if Lawrence will accept to send me another mainboard....
 I have a little electronical skills, but without knowing exactly what part to change I can't repair myself...


----------



## ads2

Yep, I have it and same problem...
 I don't know if Lawrence will accept to send me another mainboard....
 I have a little electronical skills, but without knowing exactly what part to change I can't repair myself...


----------



## ads2

Yep, I have it and same problem...
 I don't know if Lawrence will accept to send me another mainboard....
 I have a little electronical skills, but without knowing exactly what part to change I can't repair myself...


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ads2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep, I have it and same problem...
 I don't know if Lawrence will accept to send me another mainboard....
 I have a little electronical skills, but without knowing exactly what part to change I can't repair myself..._

 

We heard you the first 2 times! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Do you have a set of PC speakers or another headphone amp?

 Try to Run off the DAC output to see if it is the Head amp or the DAC that has the problem.

 Are you using a Sound Card, make sure it works, your headphone works, etc. Have you done anything to the Zero recently?

 It seems strange you would ask if you had done anything wrong, got an answer, then something goes wrong??

 Are you telling us EVERYTHING?

 .


----------



## ads2

Quote:


 We heard you the first 2 times! 
 

Humm not really, I remember that I have discussed with you in the past about Lawrence, HDAM etc... but it was more than 6 month ago 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Quote:


 Do you have a set of PC speakers or another headphone amp?

 Try to Run off the DAC output to see if it is the Head amp or the DAC that has the problem. 
 

Yes of course, to be honnest I mostly use the DAC with a Gainclone and a pair of Eltax monitor III.
 Output and headphone does not produce sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 Are you using a Sound Card, make sure it works, your headphone works, etc. Have you done anything to the Zero recently? 
 

I use 2 differents sources, my headphone works, my amp works.

 In fact yesterday, I was programming an Iphone application and it was very late, my wife was sleeping so I was listening music with a pair of headphones.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 And suddenly, no sound, I first thought that the problem came from the Mac, this morning same problem, no sound, only the relay "click". Tested also with my DVD player same problem, and I have done then a lot of tests without any success.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 Are you telling us EVERYTHING? 
 

No 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ..I was so exited (good programming job done) so I was listening some dance music,..do you think that the Zero dac does not support dance music ?
 .... Kidding....


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ads2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Humm not really, I remember that I have discussed with you in the past about Lawrence, HDAM etc... but it was more than 6 month ago 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You obviously didn't GET the Joke here, look at your posts above


  Quote:


 Yes of course, to be honnest I mostly use the DAC with a Gainclone and a pair of Eltax monitor III.
 Output and headphone does not produce sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 I use 2 differents sources, my headphone works, my amp works.

 In fact yesterday, I was programming an Iphone application and it was very late, my wife was sleeping so I was listening music with a pair of headphones.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 And suddenly, no sound, I first thought that the problem came from the Mac, this morning same problem, no sound, only the relay "click". Tested also with my DVD player same problem, and I have done then a lot of tests without any success.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 No 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ..I was so exited (good programming job done) so I was listening some dance music,..do you think that the Zero dac does not support dance music ?
 .... Kidding.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 

Sounds like you've been hit with the Zero Curse...

 .


----------



## ads2

Quote:


 You obviously didn't GET the Joke here, look at your posts above 
 

Houps... haven't seen it....

  Quote:


 Sounds like you've been hit with the Zero Curse... 
 

Yep..At the begining, received it without HDAM and Alps pot and now I'm damned.

 I have contacted Lawrence, he has asked me to send him back the board to china.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ads2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Houps... haven't seen it....


 Yep..At the begining, received it without HDAM and Alps pot and now I'm damned.

 I have contacted Lawrence, he has asked me to send him back the board to china._

 

He's a Prince of a guy!

 .


----------



## grkn

Suddenly the sound was gone as I heard the relay click off, now It won't click on again - the zero doesn't work. 

 Any things to test to fix this? tried optical in to no avail, tried turning it on/off and letting it cool etc :|

 It's a stock zero with a HDAM earth. It has acted up like this before as well, but now it seems to be final.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grkn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Suddenly the sound was gone as I heard the relay click off, now It won't click on again - the zero doesn't work. 

 Any things to test to fix this? tried optical in to no avail, tried turning it on/off and letting it cool etc :|

 It's a stock zero with a HDAM earth. It has acted up like this before as well, but now it seems to be final._

 

Look over all the components with a magnifying glass for any burn marks.

 .


----------



## AudioPhewl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grkn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Suddenly the sound was gone as I heard the relay click off, now It won't click on again - the zero doesn't work. 

 Any things to test to fix this? tried optical in to no avail, tried turning it on/off and letting it cool etc :|

 It's a stock zero with a HDAM earth. It has acted up like this before as well, but now it seems to be final._

 

Mine was the same, though it didn't fail whilst I was listening. Used it one day, without issue, and the next it produced nothing. I checked what I could - regulator output voltages, continuity between the DAC IC and the opamp socket, and the opamp socket to the RCA outputs. Never got to the bottom of it...

 Sadly, more and more of these Zero DACs are failing after a few months. Good luck getting support from Lawrence, he shafted me when a brand-new purchase was faulty out of the box...

 Could be a very good time to upgrade to the Compass? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ~Phewl.


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sounds like you've been hit with the Zero Curse..._

 

The "Zero sound" curse? Ha!


----------



## grkn

Guess I'll look for burn marks, but I bought it from wsz0304 on ebay with a 1year warranty. Guess I should snip back the snips before shipping it back?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grkn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Guess I'll look for burn marks, but I bought it from wsz0304 on ebay with a 1year warranty. Guess I should snip back the snips before shipping it back?_

 

That Vendor is top notch.

 .


----------



## grkn

Ok, it switched on again, after 24hours any numerous attempts on turning it on.. So how awesome is this "Compass" compared to the HDAMed Zero?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grkn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, it switched on again, after 24hours any numerous attempts on turning it on.. So how awesome is this "Compass" compared to the HDAMed Zero?_

 

It's good and I don't believe you'll have these types of problems with it. Additionally, there is great support from the manufacturer.

 .


----------



## grkn

I can't seem to find any direct comparison on the forum, is this a coincidence or are people boycotting the zero?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grkn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can't seem to find any direct comparison on the forum, is this a coincidence or are people boycotting the zero?_

 

Read the Compass thread, there is a blurb there.

 .


----------



## ScottieB

The Compass' DAC is very similar, but uses upgraded parts, so it is considerably better if not amazingly so. But the amp in the compass in in a completely different league - much much better than Zero's amp.


----------



## shadowlord

since there are a lot of experienced dac modders in this thread, i'd like to draw a bit attention to my thread about my problems with installing an OPA module in my constantine dac.
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f7/con...5/#post5647005


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shadowlord* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_since there are a lot of experienced dac modders in this thread, i'd like to draw a bit attention to my thread about my problems with installing an OPA module in my constantine dac.
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f7/con...5/#post5647005_

 

Does sound like you have a ground loop issue.


 .


----------



## coolchu001

I currently have dual 627s for the DAC and LM4562 for the preamp, I just ordered some LME49860NA samples...

 Anyone tried these for the preamp??


----------



## koruki

my Zero died really soon too when I got it, I wouldnt recommend it to anyone anymore, its not the great product it was when the review was written


----------



## Nedman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koruki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_my Zero died really soon too when I got it, I wouldnt recommend it to anyone anymore, its not the great product it was when the review was written_

 

I haven't had an ounce of problems with mine. It handles all my Hi-Fi, TV, radio, DVD sound needs. And as such is on for at least 12 hours a day, for the last nearly 18 months.

 Sorry to hear you've had problems with yours, but for the price I can't fault mine.


----------



## Olev

Before Compass Zero was the best DAC combo for headphones for the money. I just recomissioned my Zero to my workplace after getting a Compass.


----------



## Mitchell.lax

Hey guys. After doing a little research, I ended up with one of the Zeros and... WOW!

 I can't believe the difference. Listening to Queens of the Stoneage - Little Sister. There was so much detail, even in the 192kbps mp3's that I was missing. The mids are so much more detailed, the bass has more impact and clarity. The trebble is less overbearing because of the added detail provided at the other frequencies.

 Edit: I went straight for the OPA627 and LT1364 combo (as per signature) so I haven't heard the original zero. The upgraded one is phenomenal though.


----------



## Kitarist

interesting


----------



## op2003

I'm using the Zero with the Earth-HDAM and 2xLM4562 and this is a very nice combinations with the K701s as it sounds quite "warm". 
 But i noticed that the Zero doesn't have another power to drive the K701s properly, as i can turn the volume knob up to 4o'clock without getting blown away (this is probably current-related, but i'm not an electrotechnical engineer).


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *op2003* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm using the Zero with the Earth-HDAM and 2xLM4562 and this is a very nice combinations with the K701s as it sounds quite "warm". 
 But i noticed that the Zero doesn't have another power to drive the K701s properly, as i can turn the volume knob up to 4o'clock without getting blown away (this is probably current-related, but i'm not an electrotechnical engineer)._

 

I had no idea the 701s required so much to run? My Zero runs the HD650s great. What is the impedence of the 701s?

 .


----------



## ScottieB

Despite their low impedance (not sure but I think they are 62ohm) the 701s are notorious for being very difficult to amp properly. Don't quite understand why, but that's the general consensus.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Despite their low impedance (not sure but I think they are 62ohm) the 701s are notorious for being very difficult to amp properly. Don't quite understand why, but that's the general consensus._

 

So 62 ohm Headphones can require the Zero to be twisted to 4:00 on the dial? I haven't listened to my Zero in a while but this seems strange. I never felt my Zero was low on Gain. That's amazing!

 .


----------



## op2003

It's actually quite easy: If you apply the same output voltage to a high and a low resistor (e.g. 600Ohm HD650 vs. 62Ohm K701), you will get as a result low and high current, because I=U/R. So with low impedance cans the amp has to supply a high current. I suppose that could be part of an explanation, why the K701s are hard to drive.

 Edit: Normally my volume knob is between 10 and 12 o'clock. I just tried to turn it beyond 12 o'clock to see how far it can go. It gets quite loud at 4 o'clock, but it's not unbearable and i hear no distortion.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *op2003* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's actually quite easy: If you apply the same output voltage to a high and a low resistor (e.g. 600Ohm HD650 vs. 62Ohm K701), you will get as a result low and high current, because I=U/R. So with low impedance cans the amp has to supply a high current. I suppose that could be part of an explanation, why the K701s are hard to drive.

 Edit: Normally my volume knob is between 10 and 12 o'clock. I just tried to turn it beyond 12 o'clock to see how far it can go. It gets quite loud at 4 o'clock, but it's not unbearable and i hear no distortion._

 

Well, I understand what you are saying, but here's my experience that I'm using and why what you said makes no sense to me. Except for Scotties Explanation.

 First The HD650s are 300 ohm. Just wanted to correct that.

 I have lots of low impedance cans, Denon, Grados, 80 ohm beyers, DX1000. None of them are difficult to drive for the Zero, "that I remember".

 But I may hook it back up, I need to work on it anyhow.

 I'm not sure there's a spec for sensitivity in Headphones, just like in speakers, just don't remember seeing it. That would explain it.

 .


----------



## ScottieB

Yeah my explanation wasn't even about the LOUDness, per se, just that to sound GOOD the 701s seem to need a good amp. But I've only ever heard them a few times and have never owned them, so this is just what I'm told. Even with my HD600s (also 300ohm) the Zero was plenty loud.


----------



## op2003

There is a sensivity spec for headphones, we were discussing it in this thread.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *op2003* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is a sensivity spec for headphones, we were discussing it in this thread._

 

Interesting thread. Thanx!

 .


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting thread. Thanx!

 ._

 

Indeed, x2!


----------



## AudioPhewl

My Senns are 600ohm, and the Zero seemed to drive them nicely... Both in terms of outright volume, and the punch needed to give them a full sound.

 I wonder if the 4562s are struggling? Maybe try swapping back to the original opamps, or the LT models recommended?

 ~Phewl.
 (drunkered.)


----------



## op2003

Please do not misunderstand me... the comfortable listen volume with my Zero/K701 is about 10-12o'clock and the Earth/LM4562 combination sounds better to me than LT1058/LT1364/NE5532/... 
 The best way to describe the volume knob position/output power relation would be a logarithmic curve.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *op2003* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Please do not misunderstand me... the comfortable listen volume with my Zero/K701 is about 10-12o'clock and the Earth/LM4562 combination sounds better to me than LT1058/LT1364/NE5532/... 
 The best way to describe the volume knob position/output power relation would be a logarithmic curve._

 

I don't remember getting over about 12:00 with any set of canz, high or low impedance on mine.

 .


----------



## op2003

Amnesia or didn't you try?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *op2003* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Amnesia or didn't you try? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I listen to stuff pretty loud normally. I had a LD MKV and was able to max it out. It always seemed to have a low gain level. I never felt the Zero was anemic with any canz.

 .


----------



## Mitchell.lax

I tried searching for an answer but couldn't find one. My zero blew up in a pile of smoke yesterday afternoon. I fried the transformer it appears (before the fuse popped). The outer plastic on the trasformer was burning up and the area around the toroid got really, really hot.

 Is it likely to just be the transfomer or is anything downstream going to be dead. What are the voltages of the torroid and where can I get a replacement. Cheers guys.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mitchell.lax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I tried searching for an answer but couldn't find one. My zero blew up in a pile of smoke yesterday afternoon. I fried the transformer it appears (before the fuse popped). The outer plastic on the trasformer was burning up and the area around the toroid got really, really hot.

 Is it likely to just be the transfomer or is anything downstream going to be dead. What are the voltages of the torroid and where can I get a replacement. Cheers guys._

 

Peete may know what the specs on the transfo are. Maybe someone here has some parts. You may find the specs on the Transfo written on it areound the side of the Toroid. Seems like if all that happened you may have some "Small Toast" elsewhere. Look over all the components with a mag glass to see if anything else burned.

 Zero thread is always good for a little entertainment!

 .


----------



## Pricklely Peete

I think the trannie is a dual primary (115 + 115V) with 20-0-20, 9 + 9 V (or 12 + 12V ) secondaries with a rating of 100VA. 

 Give Lawrence Chan a shout via email or Snow. Either one of those guys should be able to get you one. See Curra's FAQ page for email details (of it's still listed).

 Peete.


----------



## x_lk

Has anyone tried feeding Zero 192K/24bit signal? Every time I tried it w/ SRC, Zero gave me random static and popping sound. 96K worked perfectly though. My sound card is AP192 and I'm using Bluejeans digital audio interconnect to feed SPDIF into Zero. Is it my Zero, or reset of the system?


----------



## ScottieB

Are you using optical spdif? I'm pretty sure only coax can do 192


----------



## x_lk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you using optical spdif? I'm pretty sure only coax can do 192_

 

Coax. AP192 does not have optical.


----------



## Currawong

More to the point, is there any benefit in feeding the Zero a 192k signal? The only benefit is a measuredly imperceptibly lower noise floor.


----------



## x_lk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_More to the point, is there any benefit in feeding the Zero a 192k signal? The only benefit is a measuredly imperceptibly lower noise floor._

 

I think the benefit of upsampling is more on the final anti-imaging filter stage. Virtually every CDP/DAC nowadays upsamples. AD1852 used by Zero is a Delta-Sigma modulation DAC. The DAC chip 8x upsamples a 44.1K signal before feeding it to Delta-Sigma Modulator, in order to avoid the need for a sharp analog low-pass filter. And this is where I got confused, since the DAC itself upsamples, then why external upsampling is ever needed? DAC-1 uses AD1853 and actually upsamples everything to 110K. They claim upsampling provides '20dB filter-performance improvement'. Is it because the SRC they use better than the AD1853 internal interpolator? I don't know, but would like to experiment and see if there is actually audible differences 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Plus, I happen to have a DVD-Audio disc w/ 192K/24bit tracks. 
 BTW, I can't tell the differences between the original 44.1K and the upsampled 88.2K/96K on my system. Maybe my system is not good enough


----------



## ztsen

Anyone know what is the voltage socket for zero+? also the voltage for the h/amp socket?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

The AD1852 oversamples and does not upsample. Most DACs and CDP's do not upsample.

 Peete.


----------



## x_lk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The AD1852 oversamples and does not upsample. Most DACs and CDP's do not upsample.

 Peete._

 

I admire you, Peete, but can't agree with you on this one. In data sheet of AD1852, 'interpolation' is used as synonyms referring the upsampling process. Oversampling does serve the same purpose, but it has to happen at the ADC stage. Since tracks on CD have a fixed sampling rate of 44.1K, how can you oversample already sampled signals? Besides AD1852/53, both CS43XX and AK43XX use similar 8x interpolators internally.


----------



## Drosera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *x_lk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I admire you, Peete, but can't agree with you on this one. In data sheet of AD1852, 'interpolation' is used as synonyms referring the upsampling process. Oversampling does serve the same purpose, but it has to happen at the ADC stage. Since tracks on CD have a fixed sampling rate of 44.1K, how can you oversample already sampled signals? Besides AD1852/53, both CS43XX and AK43XX use similar 8x interpolators internally._

 

I think we're getting bogged down in badly understood terminology.

Upsampling vs. Oversampling

Lavry Engineering: Sampling


----------



## brady7

Hey there.

 Do you think it's ok to place the zero on it's side, kind of like the way the dac magic can? (I've got space constraints) I would build some kind of base for it, like the dac magic. & if it's ok, which way up do you think it should go, ie, headphone jack near the top or the bottom? (I haven't done any mods to it, so nothing's flapping around in there (hopefully!))

 Thanks. By the way, mine's been working fine since day 1 (bought from wsz last year some time)...just a little bit of hum that you have to get close to to hear.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Thanks for the links Dro !!

 I think that settles the differences rather plainly.

 Peete.


----------



## azncookiecutter

Going back and forth on the Zero and my friend's Theta DS Pro prime, and the Zero (w/ the OPA-Earth in it) is definitely sounding harsher than the Theta. The Theta in comparison is smooth and flowing, while the Zero has an edge to the music. I'm guessing the OPA-Moon would help out in that regard? The Sun was murder on the ears with the MS-2is, so I'm leaving it far far away from the Zero.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *azncookiecutter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Going back and forth on the Zero and my friend's Theta DS Pro prime, and the Zero (w/ the OPA-Earth in it) is definitely sounding harsher than the Theta. The Theta in comparison is smooth and flowing, while the Zero has an edge to the music. I'm guessing the OPA-Moon would help out in that regard? The Sun was murder on the ears with the MS-2is, so I'm leaving it far far away from the Zero._

 

Would be interesting to hear the Theta up against the Audio-GD REF1, that would be fun!

 .


----------



## logwed

This is a random question, but does anyone know if while the unit is set in Preamp mode, if it bypasses the amplifier circuit?


----------



## azncookiecutter

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would be interesting to hear the Theta up against the Audio-GD REF1, that would be fun!

 ._

 

Thing is, the Theta mates especially well with the MS-2is. Almost a magical match, especially with the Millet Hybrid in the audio chain. Would be interesting to see how the Moon stacks up, especially with the fact that it's more rounded off, and not as sharp as the Earth.


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *azncookiecutter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thing is, the Theta mates especially well with the MS-2is. Almost a magical match, especially with the Millet Hybrid in the audio chain. Would be interesting to see how the Moon stacks up, especially with the fact that it's more rounded off, and not as sharp as the Earth._

 

Even with Grados, I'm not much of a Moon fan. Kinda dull sounding to me.

 .


----------



## brady7

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *brady7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey there.

 Do you think it's ok to place the zero on it's side, kind of like the way the dac magic can? (I've got space constraints) I would build some kind of base for it, like the dac magic. & if it's ok, which way up do you think it should go, ie, headphone jack near the top or the bottom? (I haven't done any mods to it, so nothing's flapping around in there (hopefully!))

 Thanks. By the way, mine's been working fine since day 1 (bought from wsz last year some time)...just a little bit of hum that you have to get close to to hear._

 

bump, hopefully someone who's poked around inside this thing sees this.

 Thanks


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *brady7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_bump, hopefully someone who's poked around inside this thing sees this.

 Thanks_

 


 Won't hurt it on it's side except for a few things;

 1) Make sure there is ample ventilation around the case
 2) Orient it with the Vents at the highest point, ie the headphone Jack at the top so heat can get out of the headamp
 3) If you have an HDAM, open it up and make sure it is double sticked well or it may come loose.

 If you don't know what an HDAM is, you probably don't have one.

 .


----------



## brady7

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Won't hurt it on it's side except for a few things;

 1) Make sure there is ample ventilation around the case
 2) Orient it with the Vents at the highest point, ie the headphone Jack at the top so heat can get out of the headamp
 3) If you have an HDAM, open it up and make sure it is double sticked well or it may come loose.

 If you don't know what an HDAM is, you probably don't have one.

 ._

 

Thanks, will do. Right, it's one of the earlier models (no HDAM)...I ordered the zerodac after getting about halfway through this thread, then read the rest later & found out you'd all moved on to the HDAMs!


----------



## ScottieB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *brady7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks, will do. Right, it's one of the earlier models (no HDAM)...I ordered the zerodac after getting about halfway through this thread, then read the rest later & found out you'd all moved on to the HDAMs!_

 

The HDAM is ordered separately anyway so no loss there...


----------



## brady7

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ScottieB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The HDAM is ordered separately anyway so no loss there..._

 

Thanks...I'm thinking I might give the HDAM a shot. From reading this thread, it looks like someone with minimal technical skills & no soldering iron can still get it done, right?

 What would be recommended (sun, earth, moon)? I bought mine around 10/08 from wsz...not sure if that tells you what chips are in it (I no longer have our correspondence). Sources are a Pioneer universal 563a & a Squeezebox Duet. 'phones are Grado 60s. Amp is an Onix SP3 (40 watt tube integrated) ->Vandersteen 1c.

 Anyone have a spare?

 Thanks.


----------



## bbbretzel

I've received mine this morning !!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 it comes with a dual OPA627 into the DAC section, but for the headphone amp, I think I'll put 2 LT1364....

 I've read that OPA627's sound better than LT1364, even in the head/amp section...

 is it true ? do I have to put 2 dual OPA627 in the head/amp unit ?


----------



## Currawong

The general consensus was that LT1364s were the best in the head-amp section. See the very first post for the results of Penchum's testing.


----------



## bbbretzel

yas I've seen it, thank you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 so I'll put 2 LT1364....

 but I've opened the box 15 mn ago and what a surprise : I've paid the price for the OPA627's version and there is an old OPA2604 into this ******** DAC...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the seller is WSZ0304 from ebay....
 I'm waitong for his answer...... I don't want to be refunded, just to have the dual OP627s as written in the auction.....
 I'm so angry.....


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bbbretzel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yas I've seen it, thank you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 so I'll put 2 LT1364....

 but I've opened the box 15 mn ago and what a surprise : I've paid the price for the OPA627's version and there is an old OPA2604 into this ******** DAC...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the seller is WSZ0304 from ebay....
 I'm waitong for his answer...... I don't want to be refunded, just to have the dual OP627s as written in the auction.....
 I'm so angry.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That is a good vendor. They'll send you the correct OPAs. They send you a standard instead of "upgraded" Zero.

 .


----------



## bbbretzel

I hope so

 but the question is : WHO will pay the shipping costs for the mistake that HE made....?

 I don't want to pay 30$ again to send back this wrong DAC version...


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bbbretzel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hope so

 but the question is : WHO will pay the shipping costs for the mistake that HE made....?

 I don't want to pay 30$ again to send back this wrong DAC version...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

He should just send you out the replacement Gratis. It's only Chips. I wold shoot a pic and email it to them.

 .


----------



## bbbretzel

do you think he'll just send only the good chips ?
 I hope he'll answer soon....


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bbbretzel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_do you think he'll just send only the good chips ?
 I hope he'll answer soon...._

 

I would think you would just get the chips on/and the adpater. What else would you expect?

 .


----------



## bbbretzel

I only expect that ! I hope he's serious.
 I'll tell you


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bbbretzel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I only expect that ! I hope he's serious.
 I'll tell you_

 

You bought from a Good Vendor, no worries RE the Vendor.

 .


----------



## | Scorpio |

My Zero has had a small problem ever since I got it about 7 months ago where the right channel is louder than the left at low volumes. I don't usually listen at low enough volumes for this to be problem, but I'm trying to change my habits and start listening quieter. I'd like to lower the gain in the amp section so I can turn the volume up without it being very loud. How would I go about doing that?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *| Scorpio |* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Zero has had a small problem ever since I got it about 7 months ago where the right channel is louder than the left at low volumes. I don't usually listen at low enough volumes for this to be problem, but I'm trying to change my habits and start listening quieter. I'd like to lower the gain in the amp section so I can turn the volume up without it being very loud. How would I go about doing that?_

 

Get an alps pot from Lawrence Chan and install it. Requires desoldering the old pot and soldering in the new one.

 Here's his auctions, I've bought an alps pot from him, but I don't know if he'll sell one to aomeone who hasn't bought a zero from him.

Zero DAC with the HDAM, LT1364, and upgraded volume pot - eBay (item 230349545923 end time Jun-22-09 21:09:16 PDT)


----------



## | Scorpio |

I've never done any soldering before, so I doubt that I'd be able to install it myself. How much do you think Lawrence would charge for an alps pot?


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *| Scorpio |* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've never done any soldering before, so I doubt that I'd be able to install it myself. How much do you think Lawrence would charge for an alps pot?_

 

I think he gets about $10 for it. This would be a hard project for your first solder job. The hard part is the desoldering on the crappy Zero Board. I don't know any other source for the alps pot that goes on that board. The alps Blue Velvet is too big.

 .


----------



## ads2

Hi there,
 More than 2 months ago, my Zero DAC dies. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I have contacted Lawrence, he askmed me to send back the main board (it was under warranty).
 It costed me 35 Euros signed from France 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Lawrence received it and told me that the DACship was dead.
 He had to send it to the factory for repair`.
 and since then, he tells me that it should be repeaired soon.
 But nothing done, I'm still does not have it back.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anybody has got a mainboard back repaired from Lawrence ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks


----------



## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ads2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi there,
 More than 2 months ago, my Zero DAC dies. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I have contacted Lawrence, he askmed me to send back the main board (it was under warranty).
 It costed me 35 Euros signed from France 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Lawrence received it and told me that the DACship was dead.
 He had to send it to the factory for repair`.
 and since then, he tells me that it should be repeaired soon.
 But nothing done, I'm still does not have it back.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anybody has got a mainboard back repaired from Lawrence ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks_

 

Good Luck my friend. We will pray for you...

 .


----------



## AudioPhewl

Sadly, I fear the €35 would likely have been put to better use by saving toward a new DAC... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Lawrence has a reputation for leaving people out to dry. Ah... you're not English, I presume... he has a reputation for ignoring problems and hoping they will go away.

 ~Phewl.


----------



## ads2

but I think that he read this newsgroup.
 After speaking about my different problem here, he tryed to solve it.

 yesterday I received this email :


 Dear Sir ,



 Your parcel is on the way , tracking no XXXXXXX , Hongkong Post é¦™æ¸¯éƒµæ”¿ ,air mail( 7-10 days ) . Please let me know when you receive it .



 Thank you very much !



 Best regards,

 Lawrence

 so I think to solve the problems it's always beter to write here also.
 Now I will have to wait and see.

 Just


----------



## takengo2003

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *| Scorpio |* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Zero has had a small problem ever since I got it about 7 months ago where the right channel is louder than the left at low volumes. I don't usually listen at low enough volumes for this to be problem, but I'm trying to change my habits and start listening quieter. I'd like to lower the gain in the amp section so I can turn the volume up without it being very loud. How would I go about doing that?_

 

actually i also have this small problem, but i am using pc, hence i can adjust the left and right balance to ensure both side are equal loudness.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ads2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_but I think that he read this newsgroup.
 After speaking about my different problem here, he tryed to solve it.

 yesterday I received this email :


 Dear Sir ,



 Your parcel is on the way , tracking no XXXXXXX , Hongkong Post é¦™æ¸¯éƒµæ”¿ ,air mail( 7-10 days ) . Please let me know when you receive it .



 Thank you very much !



 Best regards,

 Lawrence

 so I think to solve the problems it's always beter to write here also.
 Now I will have to wait and see.

 Just_

 

I'm glad to see this has worked out for you......now to wait until the package and board arrive.

 Peete.


----------



## freckling

I can't believe the Zero has gone down the poop drain. I was always extremely happy with my Zero as it has (and still does) serve me well. I'm in the market for a sub $200 DAC/amp that offers similar value. Does anyone have any suggestions? I've obviously heard of the Compass, but seeing as I'm buying this for my brother, I want to avoid spending $400 and ironically giving him a better headphone amp than the one I own.


----------



## laobrasuca

do any of you know what's the peak voltage swing the ZERO can output?

 @ freckling: at this price a joint dac+amp not DIY solution is the xonar ST, but your brother have to have a desktop computer with windows. i'd also like to have more good stand alone options below 200$...

 lao


----------



## Pricklely Peete

The new version might be better but that is still unknown at this point. It's a hit or miss proposition.

 Peete.


----------



## mezasi

'Combo no.' - 'DAC Op-amp' + 'Headphone Op-amp' = 'Observation'
 lt1364+lt1884*2＝Great balance,very laid back sound.


----------



## notoriousmatty

are there even any other choices in the below 150 price range for a DAC/AMP combo like this one?


----------



## Kawai_man

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *notoriousmatty* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_are there even any other choices in the below 150 price range for a DAC/AMP combo like this one?_

 

Or any choices separate under 150-180


----------



## mezasi

Dac / Amp :
 LT1884A + LT1498
 LT1112 + LT1498
 LT1364 + LT1884A
 LT1469 + LT1884A
 LT1028As + LT1469
 LT1028As + LT1884A
 LT2078 + LT1028As:
 very good sound


----------



## CB1990

Thanks for the great review, I have a pair of AKG K701s and am looking for a amp/dac combo under 300 dollars. This sounds pretty amazing and I will check it out! Im also not that experienced in this subject, so Id like to ask if there is anything (amp/dac combo) better I can get for 300 dollars (U.S) or less. Thanks again!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *notoriousmatty* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_are there even any other choices in the below 150 price range for a DAC/AMP combo like this one?_

 

Nope.....the Zero pretty much has this niche of the market all to itself. It's difficult to build a DAC and an amp for 170 or under and have it A) make any money for the manufacturer B) and sound even remotely half decent.

 The Audio-gd Compass was supposed to be a direct competitor but it took on a life of it's own and once feature creep and parts spec were tallied it couldn't be done for less than 258US (actual unit cost). That being said the Compass is in another league SQ wise compared the Zero...(even the upgraded Zero)....but the Zero remains a bargain that is hard to beat (when it works).

 Saving up the extra money for the Compass (if you can) is a better long term solution but for anyone not able to afford such an undertaking and needs a entry level combo unit, the Zero fills the niche.

 Just buy it from a vendor that will support any after delivery problems (such as premature failure, etc).

 Peete.


----------



## oatmeal769

Agreed, you simply cannot do better for entry level at this price point. I'm now using it with a new (to me) Zana Deux, so I'm now understanding exactly what it's capable of. It goes perfectly with a low cost tube amp - it has a warmth to it that will complement one nicely.
 Mine is the older version with the 627 op-amps.

 But yeah, if you're looking for reference clarity and sound stage, save up for something pricier.


----------



## ads2

Hi All,
 I have received my repair board from Lawrence (after 2 month).
 Hope it is well repaired.
 I have a problem remoiunting the board.
 There is 3 connectors between the boqrd and the amp.
 One with 3 contacts and 2 with 6 contacts. My problem concerns these 2 last ones.
 How to make sure I don't invert these 2 connectors ?
 Any tips are welcome...
 thanks


----------



## mplee79

Hello all. Read through many of the above posts but am still unclear about a few things. 

 1. Is the new 09 version of this amp/dac still worthy of the original review? 

 2. Has anyone compared this to the amp/dac usb combo that 
 HIFIMAN EF2 puts out?

 3. How does the new systems preamp ability compare with the original review. I"m in the market for a headphone system that I could possibly later expand on to a home theater or 2 channel listening station

 4. Headphone out still sound quality? Compared to the IbassoD10

 5. _Most importantly: Who is the most trustworthy ebay vendor for this purchase and what specifications should i ask for in terms of opamp etc..._

 6. Do i need to purchase any extra cables or is the unit all inclusive?

 7. I have no experience with opamp rolling. Is it difficult to do?

 Thanks


----------



## takengo2003

I have Moon hdam on the dac, thinking of getting either a pair of lt1361 or lt1364 on the headamp section, which should i get? 

 heard lt1361 performs better at the headamp. Also how many hours should i burn in for the headamp?


----------



## ads2

Hello,
 as I said previously I have received a repaired Zero board from Lawrence, and i have a problem for mounting it. Maybe someone can help (No reply from Lawrence). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 There is 3 connectors that make connexions between the board and the headphone amp board.

 one with 3 pins (no problem with this one) and 2 connectors of 6 pins that look very similar.

 I don't want to invert these 6 pins connectors when pluggin them to my headphone amp board. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Can someone help me to to it without error ? by looking at his DAC ?

 Thanks


----------



## kakari

has anyone bought from coolfungadget or snow48_6? are their opa627 the real stuff?


----------



## mplee79

opa627 in DAC + 2x LT1884CN8 = pure bliss

 Open and airy. Highly enjoyable and very smooth. Improved the bass response quite a bit. 

 BTW i ordered the unit from wsz0304. It's the real deal and he was extremely helpful. Very accommodating. Highly recommended!


----------



## damsonlee

I also bought a 09 ZERO from wsz0304. Although the OPA627 chip was found having some problem. He helped me find the problem and quickly send a replacement 627 chip to my Canada address from Hongkong although I bought it in China. Mr.Wang is a truly nice seller. Highly recommended.


----------



## damsonlee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The new version might be better but that is still unknown at this point. It's a hit or miss proposition.

 Peete._

 

Peete, can I do your Franken mod to the 09 version ZERO? Do you still have the kit? Thanks!


----------



## bbbretzel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *damsonlee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I also bought a 09 ZERO from wsz0304. Although the OPA627 chip was found having some problem. He helped me find the problem and quickly send a replacement 627 chip to my Canada address from Hongkong although I bought it in China. Mr.Wang is a truly nice seller. Highly recommended._

 

my OPA627's from Mr Wang are fakes......
 I think it's "normal" for thos price....


----------



## damsonlee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bbbretzel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_my OPA627's from Mr Wang are fakes......
 I think it's "normal" for thos price....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ah? I didn't know the OPA627's are fakes! If I use real ones, do they sound much better? Or, should I get other OPAs?


----------



## mplee79

Anyway to tell easily that they are fake, other than using a voltmeter?

 The opamps on the dac section look like they are semi soldered in or something to that extent. Was it easy to replace?


----------



## mplee79

sorry double post


----------



## koven

anyone know how this dac compares to the Xm5 or 3move?

 is the compass a huge upgrade from the zero?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyone know how this dac compares to the Xm5 or 3move?

 is the compass a huge upgrade from the zero?_

 



 Yes the Compass is a big upgrade over the Zero by a considerable margin.

 Peete.


----------



## bbbretzel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mplee79* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyway to tell easily that they are fake, other than using a voltmeter?

 The opamps on the dac section look like they are semi soldered in or something to that extent. Was it easy to replace?_

 

the voltmeter is, IMO, the best way to know if they are counterfeit
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 the 3 opamps in the Zero are DIP8 chips, they are designed to be easily switched


----------



## mplee79

This is what mine came as. Sorry i don't have a better camera (recently broke, being repaired).

 In very feint lettering it says:

 BBOP A
 627 AU
 0003


----------



## mplee79

Has anyone here tried the capacitor snipping suggestion? Is it safe to do and how much improvement do you actually hear?

 I'm considering getting the moon for the DAC section but need more feedback about it first.

 thanks


----------



## mplee79

When trying to order opamp LT1469, there are a ton of them on the website with slightly different numbers and letter configurations. Which one is the correct one?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

LT1469CN8

 Peete.


----------



## kakari

@mplee79 and damsonlee: 

 So can I assume that you checked the OPA627 using a voltmeter? I am just being wary of all the fake OPA627 chips.


----------



## mplee79

I personally haven't. I don't have a voltmeter. I'm worried that i received a fake one as well. If you scroll up, you'll see a pic of the 627. Bottom line though is if you are worried, order one as the base unit, and upgrade an opamp yourself. I'm switching out the 627 anyway so... 

 It all really comes down to the music...correct? So far i'm enjoying mine, so whether it is fake or not doesn't really matter.

 Also, i don't have a base of comparison. You can get free samples from a couple places. 

 I personally only care about the longevity of the unit.


----------



## damsonlee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kakari* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@mplee79 and damsonlee: 

 So can I assume that you checked the OPA627 using a voltmeter? I am just being wary of all the fake OPA627 chips. _

 

No, I didn't check it using a voltmeter. My ZERO had some very loud cracking noise when the preamp was turned on and it was found that the problem is from the OPA627.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *damsonlee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Peete, can I do your Franken mod to the 09 version ZERO? Do you still have the kit? Thanks!_

 

I think so but I'm not 100% sure without getting a hold of 09 version for myself.

 I have the PIO caps for a few kits but the rest of the parts you'll have to source on your own (for those that are interested).

 Peete.


----------



## mplee79

Mispost


----------



## ramenmeal

i just wanted to know if you guys know the current seller of these zero dac's. I found some on ebay from an ebay store 'tam's audio'

ZERO (Tianyun) 24/192 DAC + Headphone Amp (OPA2604+USB) - eBay (item 350226989216 end time Aug-14-09 18:52:01 PDT)

 this is the same thing right?


----------



## lu-chen-chan

Hello Guys,
 i´ve got Sennheiser IE8 and Zero , do you think i can drive them through Zero´s phone out without any damage?I am worried because of their low impendance ...Does anyone use IE8 with Zero?
 Thanks for answers.


----------



## azncookiecutter

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lu-chen-chan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello Guys,
 i´ve got Sennheiser IE8 and Zero , do you think i can drive them through Zero´s phone out without any damage?I am worried because of their low impendance ...Does anyone use IE8 with Zero?
 Thanks for answers._

 

You might want to pick up an impedance adapter. The Zero's headphone out is VERY powerful. Without one, once accidental turn on the knob, you'll be blowing both your ears and IE8s out.


----------



## koven

Question... can I connect the Zero DAC-out to powered speakers similar to Compass in Super mode? 

 Does anyone do this? Does it hiss??


----------



## mplee79

I have not tested it that way but i can tell you that i've used it as a preamp to a power amplifier and it works just fine. I'm assuming that the same applies to amp'd speakers. 

 By doing this you bypass the internal headphone amplifier (i'm 99% sure) and sending out a line level signal. In fact, yeah, you definitely bypass the headphone amplifier circuit because the volume knob no longer increases the volume when you use the rca outs. 

 Good luck


----------



## mplee79

btw koven...as to the shure srh840, i've used them on my zero dac/amp and it sounds quite nice with jazz. I've also listened to the headphones straight from my marantz avr receiver (which has a decent headphone amp built in) and it sounds nice as well.


----------



## koven

Thanks for the response, my speaker volumes are located on the back of the speaker (against a wall) so it's very inconvenient. 

 Will getting a preamp w/ volume control be the best solution? Any recommendations for bang for buck preamps? Thanks


----------



## mplee79

Hm... i'm not 100% sure about the preamp features but you may want to take a look at the Nurforce icon. It goes for ~$200 and is supposed to be decent (Dues ex in this thread below is talking about using it for his rc-10 which are not powered speakers, so i'm not sure if you can use it with power speakers)

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/qua...mp-dac-432882/

 It acts quite similar to the compass and the zero. I'm not sure if the volume knob controls the volume of the speakers. 

 Good luck. 

 I'll recheck the volume knob on the zero right now just to be sure. Be back in a few.


----------



## mplee79

yeah volume knob does nothing on the zero. I'm assuming the compass is probably the same.


----------



## Steve The Egg

How does this pair with the Denon 5000's?


----------



## koven

what's my best solution if i need to retain the volume knob on the DAC?


----------



## mplee79

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Steve The Egg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How does this pair with the Denon 5000's?_

 

I'm not sure but i can tell you that it sounds quite nice with the srh840. It is by no means a 400 dollar amp/dac but you get far more than what you pay for. In addition, there are a few very easy diy upgrades that make the Zero a very sexy beast.

 I know these are capable of driving the just about any headphones.

 Search frankenzero


----------



## koven

another question.. is there a Super mode in the Zero like in the Compass? Like a button to switch from DAC-out to Dac -> Amp ? That way I can switch between headphones and speakers easily?


----------



## mplee79

Yes. You can easily switch it from Preamp mode which is just DAC. With the press of a button, it is in headphone mode which is DAC--->Headphone amp


----------



## RushNerd

Hey guys, just discovered this great little find (the Zero).

 I had it recommended to me (for my D2000's) over my sought over Headroom micro stack (Dac and Amp). Would the Zero Amp/DAC combo be a worthy contender here? Should I save my money and just buy the Zero?

 It looks wonderful but I would want to have been sold something that wouldn't be nearly as good as the Headroom, any ideas?

 Also I wondered about using this unit just by itself (computer soundcard as source - optical) I hear a lot of talk about people pairing this with more amps, I don't quite understand why. 

*Would just my Soundcard>Zero>Denon's be an ideal setup?*


----------



## Currawong

The problem with pre-amp mode in the Zero, is that, by default, it outputs as a DAC, that is, 100% output when you switch it on. So if you connected it to a power amp, and forgot to switch it into pre-amp mode, you'd have 100% volume. Not great. The other thing, as has been said before is, it's a lottery whether your Zero will fail after you buy it.

 As for a HR Micro Stack, if I could afford it, I'd take it any day over a Zero. You're looking at quality made gear vs. cheap and unfortunately un-reliable. It's a pity, as if it didn't have reliability problems, it _would_ indeed be an excellent bargain.


----------



## koven

^ Thanks for that info, I think I'll pass now.


----------



## RushNerd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As for a HR Micro Stack, if I could afford it, I'd take it any day over a Zero. You're looking at quality made gear vs. cheap and unfortunately un-reliable. It's a pity, as if it didn't have reliability problems, it would indeed be an excellent bargain._

 

I see, so it's more of reliability/build quality issue between the too then an audio/sound one? Maybe buying a used Zero is the way to go?

 It's just that the stack new is $666 and if I could get a zero fro around $150-170 I would be very happy. Thanks for the help.


----------



## roshankv

would this be a perfect first amplifier!? for a hd650 fully burnt in and a heavy bass trance electronic hip hop music lover. thanks


----------



## mplee79

As many have said before. It's the best you can do at this price point. Many have stated that if they never heard better (like 5k systems), they'd be perfectly content with the Zero. It is a great little unit with upgradeable potential.


----------



## oatmeal769

X2 best value at price point.
 It sounds very very good, even completely stock, for $200 or whatever it costs new.

 Don't know if this is against the rules, apologies if it is. 
 But -

 < utterly shameless plug >

 This one works perfectly, save on the shipping costs as it's here in the US already!

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f43/f-...3/#post5872228

 < / utterly shameless plug >


----------



## oatmeal769

X2 best value at price point.
 It sounds very very good, even completely stock, for $200 or whatever it costs new.

 Don't know if this is against the rules, apologies if it is. 
 But -

 < utterly shameless plug >

 This one works perfectly, save on the shipping costs as it's here in the US already!

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f43/f-...3/#post5872228

 < / utterly shameless plug >


----------



## Chefano

Hi!
 I could not follow all the thread.. but is Zero capable to reproduce 24/96 flac's using USB?
 Or its limited to 16/44 like others dac.
 Thanks =D


----------



## Chefano

***.. Sorry double post


----------



## | Scorpio |

I'm thinking about getting one of the HDAM's from Audio-GD. Which one is considered the best?


----------



## coolfungadget

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *| Scorpio |* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm thinking about getting one of the HDAM's from Audio-GD. Which one is considered the best?_

 

For ZERO 09, Moon is the best IMHO.


----------



## coolfungadget

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Chefano* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi!
 I could not follow all the thread.. but is Zero capable to reproduce 24/96 flac's using USB?
 Or its limited to 16/44 like others dac.
 Thanks =D_

 

USB receiver is PCM2707 which supports up to 16bit/48khz.


----------



## coolfungadget

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The problem with pre-amp mode in the Zero, is that, by default, it outputs as a DAC, that is, 100% output when you switch it on. So if you connected it to a power amp, and forgot to switch it into pre-amp mode, you'd have 100% volume. Not great. The other thing, as has been said before is, it's a lottery whether your Zero will fail after you buy it.

 As for a HR Micro Stack, if I could afford it, I'd take it any day over a Zero. You're looking at quality made gear vs. cheap and unfortunately un-reliable. It's a pity, as if it didn't have reliability problems, it would indeed be an excellent bargain._

 

The truth is, I've sold *45* ZERO (1 '08 and 44 '09) DACs since May 6th. Guess what, none of them was returned. Only 1 unit had a bad green LED and the buyer happened to be able to solder it off for a replacement.

 However, I have returned 3 units back to the manufacturer (do the maths, defect rate 6.7%...not too good) because of various sound problems I found when doing my own "QC". But all my customers are happy. Don't believe it? Check out my eBay feedback and DSRs (100% positive feedback and 5.0 score for Item As Described).

 I believe the problem with '09 ZERO is not with their design or production. Possibly with their QC or logistics. If any other seller sees this, maybe you will consider testing every unit before you send them out to your buyers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.

 '09 ZERO is one of my bestsellers and I am confident it will be the same in the coming holiday season.

 This post is definitely not an ad. ZERO is not the only brand I am selling and I am not paid by ZERO to say so. These are my personal opinions and I just want everybody know that ZERO is doing their best to make things right and better. And I saw they already did.


----------



## bbbretzel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coolfungadget* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For ZERO 09, Moon is the best IMHO._

 

I hope my OPA Dual MOON will arrive on tuesday.......


----------



## Carter54

I just got a pair of HD600 and the sound seems recessed and less detailed than my ATH-A900's I am wondering if I need a better amp.

 I am currently driving them with my Zero does anyone here have experience driving HD600 with a Zero?


----------



## maxxwizard

well, i just went ahead and purchased a zero 24/192 after reading through the 100 pages of this thread. here's to hoping it'll arrive within the next month, lol.

ZERO (Tianyun) 24/192 DAC + Headphone Amp (OPA2604+USB) - eBay (item 350226989216 end time Sep-13-09 18:52:01 PDT)

 i think the stock op-amps should work fine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 or maybe i'll roll them once i get bored...


----------



## maxxwizard

double post, bleh.


----------



## crapback

Coolfungadget was a good guy to do business with. I got my zero from him and it arrived in upstate NY in less than 2 weeks. I thought the 2604 sounded pretty good in the dac. The stock jrc082's in the amp came out after about 2 minutes.


----------



## Sovelin

Alright, I'm new to the amp/dac game, and I noticed the tianyun has two models, one with OPA2604, and one with OPA627. Is one better than the other? And are these DAC's?


----------



## crapback

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sovelin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Alright, I'm new to the amp/dac game, and I noticed the tianyun has two models, one with OPA2604, and one with OPA627. Is one better than the other? And are these DAC's?_

 

You should start with the first post in this thread.


----------



## Sovelin

lol, so many pages. There's only a 10 dollar difference between the two.

 Haha, nevermind. The very first post answered it. Although I can't tell where the LT comes in.


----------



## bbbretzel

well..... I've just received my HDAM OPA moon...

 I think it doesn't work....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it's getting very very hot and the toroidal transformer is smoking and getting VERY HOT
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the sound is just a mix of low level bad sound and a sort of bzzzzzzzzzzzzz...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 what do you think of that ?


----------



## coolfungadget

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bbbretzel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well..... I've just received my HDAM OPA moon...

 I think it doesn't work....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it's getting very very hot and the toroidal transformer is smoking and getting VERY HOT
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the sound is just a mix of low level bad sound and a sort of bzzzzzzzzzzzzz...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 what do you think of that ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Where did you get it and you are sure it's installed right?


----------



## azncookiecutter

Orientation of the chip is crucial. Have it on the wrong way, it'll potentially blow up.


----------



## bbbretzel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coolfungadget* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where did you get it and you are sure it's installed right?_

 

I've bought it from gd-audio, I've plugged it like the photos on head-fi...

 no problem for the connection...

 I'm trying to contact GD-audio and the seller on ebay, because now, after replacing the original opamps, evreything's wrong !
 the sound is cracking and when I turn the volume pot, the 2 leds of the headphones board turn off....turn on....off....on.... etc.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 so I have an OPA dual moon which is HS and now a Zero which is HS too after only 2 months.....
 what can I do ???


----------



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----------



## maxxwizard

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *crapback* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Coolfungadget was a good guy to do business with. I got my zero from him and it arrived in upstate NY in less than 2 weeks. I thought the 2604 sounded pretty good in the dac. The stock jrc082's in the amp came out after about 2 minutes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

i ordered saturday afternoon and received it thursday afternoon from china. pretty impressive if you ask me.

 i got about 10 hours on the zero right now (through usb). definitely an upgrade from my audigy 2 value or my logitech z5500's internal DAC.

 the bass is more controlled... there's a bigger soundstage... more separation between all the different sounds... and i'm working with just mp3s. if this amp supposedly gets better past the 100 hour mark, then i guess i'm in for a treat.


----------



## tekbot

well I have searched but cant seem an answer. 
 I own D2000 and looking for an amp. im intrigued by these postings on the Zero but looking for advice on which OPA to get from Ebay. looks like the OPA627 and OPA2604 are readily available. 

 The reviewer(awesome btw) mentions tighter bass with the OPA627 x2 but im not clear if that is the same as the ones being offered on ebay. 

 i typically will be listening to this through my desktop and usually listen to well produced minimal techno. 

 does anyone have a strong preference to start out with? 


 thanks in advance.


----------



## Carter54

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tekbot* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well I have searched but cant seem an answer. 
 I own D2000 and looking for an amp. im intrigued by these postings on the Zero but looking for advice on which OPA to get from Ebay. looks like the OPA627 and OPA2604 are readily available. 

 The reviewer(awesome btw) mentions tighter bass with the OPA627 x2 but im not clear if that is the same as the ones being offered on ebay. 

 i typically will be listening to this through my desktop and usually listen to well produced minimal techno. 

 does anyone have a strong preference to start out with? 


 thanks in advance._

 

The OPA627 are the ones being offered on Ebay these are upgrades for the DAC secion the 2604 are the original OPAMPS offered in the DAC section. I am currently running the 627's and 1364's in the DAC/Headphone amp section and am happy with the sound. I run Coax output from my Audigy X-Fi to my Zero DAC and it is definately an upgrade from My audigy. I have never heard the D2000 but It drives my D1001 just fine.

 Good Luck


----------



## oatmeal769

I found the results from op-amp rolling to be barely perceptible (if at all due to placebo) when using the Zero as a headphone amp, or with the Little Dot MkIII I used to own. 
 I might have heard more of a difference using my Zana Deux, but that's a vast step up in quality - I.E you wouldn't drive a Zana Deux with an op-amped DAC anyway.

 If you can get a couple for a few bucks I suppose it'd be worth it, but I think you ought to just save $30 bucks for an HDAM, where there will be marked improvement. All the posts earlier about op-amps being a night and day improvement were hugely over-exaggerated.


----------



## maxxwizard

so my USB decoding just broke. i'm not sure if it's the cable or the Zero... i switched to optical and it's working. i'm too lazy to investigate.


----------



## coolfungadget

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *maxxwizard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so my USB decoding just broke. i'm not sure if it's the cable or the Zero... i switched to optical and it's working. i'm too lazy to investigate._

 

Try pressing the Mute button for 3 seconds until you see the Mute LED blinks.


----------



## maxxwizard

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coolfungadget* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Try pressing the Mute button for 3 seconds until you see the Mute LED blinks._

 

i turned on the amp to no sound, so i did this to re-lock the USB signal. that's pretty odd that i have to do this each time.


----------



## bbbretzel

Well... I've sent my broken Zero to wsz0304, I'm waiting for the new one...


----------



## maxxwizard

i swapped in a LT1364 for the DAC and LT1469s for the amp. it was really simple - though removing the chips is ridiculously hard. i bent a few pins on the original op-amps, but it's not like i'm going to switch back. let's see how the zero sounds now


----------



## guitarizt

I'm gonna get one on ebay with opa moon. Anything else I'm forgetting or looking over?

 Also why do the pictures of the silver one not have a usb port?

 Front (showing colors): http://i28.tinypic.com/msjtx.jpg
 Back: http://i25.tinypic.com/29m6hd1.jpg


----------



## Carter54

I believe there are two models available now one with USB DAC and the older one (Like I have) with just Optical and Coax Connectors for the DAC.


----------



## redrum42

Hi all,

 I have a zero DAC which I use with a john shearne amp and usher s520 speakers. I enjoy the sound very much with headphones but I find it too bright with my speakers. 

 I did the capacitor snip mod a while ago before I bought these speakers and can't really remember how much of an effect it had. Does it significantly increase the treble output??

 I know the opa627 is a very well regarded chip but is it considered bright? If so which alternatives would offer a smoother less bright sound to help tame the highs on my ushers?

 Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 thanks


----------



## RickEC

I found the cap snip mod affect the trebles a lot.


----------



## redrum42

I have limited soldering experience...if I wanted to replace the snipped capacitors (i lost the origionals) will any 22p rated capacitor do the job?

 Sorry for my ignorance!

 thanks


----------



## Currawong

The OPA627 is very dark, if anything.


----------



## shampoosuicide

Hello,

 I'm experiencing very loud intermittent clipping ('pop' sound) when turning the volume knob on my upgraded C-2C, both with music playing and without.

 I received my C-2C in mid-July and used it then with my HD650 (300 Ohm impedance, 103dB/mW sensitivity). I can't recall if I had this problem then. However, since pairing the amp with my AD2000 (40 Ohm impedance, 102dB/mW), the problem has become more distinct.

 I emailed Kingwa, and this was his reply:

  Quote:


 Dear Low,
 C2C upgrade version apply the 23 steps switch for volume control, while turn the switch, it will bread the current switch then close the new switch, that time will has a "click" sound from headphone, but I test by Denon D5K and HD650, these "click" sound not loud , I can clear to hear the "click" but can not let me scare.
 If your C2C "click" is loud to scare you, I think maybe either this reason, 1, input signal has high DC offset. 2, or your headphone very high sensitive, 3, or the 23 switch fault, 4, turn the volume too slow at every steps.
 If you have any problems, let me know please.
 Kingwa 
 

1) I currently have my C-2C paired with the Zero DAC. I tried running the C-2C straight out of my iMac, and while the clicking noise was audible enough (not soft; moderate volume), it was not nearly as loud as when paired with the Zero, which could produce a loud 'pop' noise. However, I'd add that the input signal from the Zero is much higher than that of the iMac (ie. I have to turn the volume knob higher when running out of the iMac to get the same volume).
 2) I doubt this is the reason, as the AD2000 has a lower sensitivity than the HD650.
 3) Not sure.
 4) Doubt so. The clipping occurs regardless of the speed at which the volume knob is turned.

 I'm guessing (1) is the most plausible reason, but I thought I'd check if anyone else is experiencing the same issue? Have my headphones been damaged in anyway? They still sound okay to me, for now. If it is my Zero, does it mean it's faulty? What exactly is/causes high DC offset anyway?

 Thanks.


----------



## Shlonglor

I've had my Zero since around page 200 of this thread and have been enjoying it very much with my Denons (2000 model).

 I'm in the market for 2.1 stereo speakers solely for music purposes (and some movie/tv use). I only have my laptop currently, which has a very mediocre audio output (quality and amplification). I was wondering whether it would be possible to use the Zero as the DAC and amp for normal computer speakers, or perhaps something even better? I would use a plug splitter to connect both the speakers and my phones at all times or just use a switch for this purpose.

 Is this a viable idea? Does anyone have any experience with this?
 Any recommendation welcome.


----------



## junkimchi

anyone who get this dac

 REMEMBER to change your voltage to 110 is you're in the US. Got noise only until i switched it and possibly could have damaged the DAC.


----------



## dario

It's a good idea to disconnect the headphone amp section of the zero if I'm not using it anymore?
 How I can do that?


----------



## coolfungadget

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dario* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's a good idea to disconnect the headphone amp section of the zero if I'm not using it anymore?
 How I can do that?_

 

press the pre-amp button.


----------



## dario

Obviously I mean phisical disconnection of the board from the DAC board...


----------



## junkimchi

how the heck do i setup the zero for 24bit/192Khz playback?

 1. Is it necessary?
 2. Is bitperfect even necessary with windows 7/vista?
 3. What is the best way to go about bitpefect playback if needed

 *edit* It even says in the manual that the USB chip pcm2704 only supports up to 16bit/48khz so 24 bit playback is only possible through optical or coaxial?


----------



## oatmeal769

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *junkimchi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_1. Is it necessary?_

 

No, you'll never hear it. Even if you could, it would be with much higher quality gear. Quote:


  Originally Posted by *junkimchi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_2. Is bitperfect even necessary with windows 7/vista? Vista / 7_

 

 The necessity of bit perfect is up to you, again, you'll never hear the difference. That said, I do it. Quote:


  Originally Posted by *junkimchi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_3. What is the best way to go about bitpefect playback if needed._

 

The only SURE way I know is with Vista / 7. Use foobar2000 with the WASAPI plug in for playback. Disable all effects, and leave the volume bar alone. (You CAN adjust volume, but only 100% will be bit perfect) Using optical or coaxial, I would use on-board sound if you have it. This seems to be easiest. If you have a dedicated sound-card, you will need to research as to whether it will change the data stream or not. I've not been able to make it happen with any Creative products, for example, even with ASIO. I'm using an E-Mu for recording, but that won't do it either - I use my stock on-board sound to output to my DAC.

 The simple and easiest test is to hook up a surround sound receiver to the output, and play a .wav or .flac file of a DTS recording. (That is, a lossless audio recording of the digital code stream. If there is any change to the audio file's 'bits' or signal, the receiver will not be able to decode it to DTS) If it's a bit perfect stream, the receiver will decode it, and you will hear whatever the DTS file is. if it isn't bit perfect, you will hear static, or nothing at all.


----------



## junkimchi

For some reason WASAPI lags a bit when starting songs and doesn't have gapless playback with foobar2000.

 i "think"


----------



## azncookiecutter

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *junkimchi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For some reason WASAPI lags a bit when starting songs and doesn't have gapless playback with foobar2000.

 i "think"_

 

Don't have that problem here. Some config issues with your PC?


----------



## Currawong

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dario* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Obviously I mean phisical disconnection of the board from the DAC board..._

 

The headamp board has plugs going to it that you can disconnect easily enough.


----------



## krnjoejoe

Hi guys,

 First time poster 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I am new to all this audio talk so please excuse the stupid question below 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Is it possible to use the Zero as a pre-amp for a dedicated power amp (as opposed to a integrated amp), and if so, is it recommended?

 I've read the OP, but I assume the Sonic Super T-Amp is an integrated amp?

 Thanks for any replies/advice!


----------



## junkimchi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *krnjoejoe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys,

 First time poster 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am new to all this audio talk so please excuse the stupid question below 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Is it possible to use the Zero as a pre-amp for a dedicated power amp (as opposed to a integrated amp), and if so, is it recommended?

 I've read the OP, but I assume the Sonic Super T-Amp is an integrated amp?

 Thanks for any replies/advice!_

 

the Zero has RCA out so yeah you can use any amp that has RCA in. When using it just as a DAC there is a setting so that you bypass the headphone amp part completely so yes you can use it just as a DAC. From reading reviews and actually owning one its supposed to be a pretty good standalone DAC too.


----------



## coolfungadget

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dario* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Obviously I mean phisical disconnection of the board from the DAC board..._

 

1. Open the case.
 2. Pull the plug out.


----------



## Koolpsych

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *junkimchi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the Zero has RCA out so yeah you can use any amp that has RCA in. When using it just as a DAC there is a setting so that you bypass the headphone amp part completely so yes you can use it just as a DAC. From reading reviews and actually owning one its supposed to be a pretty good standalone DAC too._

 

I use my upgraded zero with a moon hdam with a DV3322 and I am very happy with it as a dac.


----------



## Jazz9

Does any of you know how much power the amp has with different loads?
 (ex: xxxmw@120ohm, xxxxmw@300ohm, xxxmw@600...)


----------



## indianbraker

man its been a while since iv posted, but unfortunately i didnt want this to be my first post back...MY ZERO DAC IS DEAD!!! i have no idea how this happened. Walked away from my comp and came back and even though it was plugged in with the power switch on, all the leds and unit itself shut off. Not sure if theres any way to reset it but i got nothing as of right now.. let it sit for a few days and tried a different power wire and outlet and it still didnt work. if anyone has any ideas let me know it would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## Carter54

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indianbraker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_man its been a while since iv posted, but unfortunately i didnt want this to be my first post back...MY ZERO DAC IS DEAD!!! i have no idea how this happened. Walked away from my comp and came back and even though it was plugged in with the power switch on, all the leds and unit itself shut off. Not sure if theres any way to reset it but i got nothing as of right now.. let it sit for a few days and tried a different power wire and outlet and it still didnt work. if anyone has any ideas let me know it would be greatly appreciated!_

 

Pull the cover off and I am pretty sre there is a reset switch on the main dac board. PM prickley pete he is pretty intimate with the inner working of this amp but there may also be an inline fuse on the main boards that went.

 Good Luck


----------



## indianbraker

yeah pushed the reset switch and nothing...held it pressed for ten seconds still nothing. cant figure it out.


----------



## r_aquarii

check the fuse...


----------



## indianbraker

where exactly is this fuse located?
 thanks


----------



## indianbraker

took the the two screws out (one of them holds the ground wire) figured the fuse would be located inside where the power wire connect however i still dont see how you access the fuse.


----------



## indianbraker

fuse was blown and i found a spare fuse inside near where the fuse was located. pretty sure it was a spare because it wasnt touching anything....just found that the second fuse blew as soon as i put it in guess ill be buying more 250v fuses....


----------



## bbbretzel

Hi guys !
 I've just received 4 OPA627BPs and 2 browndog adapters 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I've put them into my Zero with a dual OPA MOON in the DAC board, and.... WWWOOOOAAAA !!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 the sound is clear, the soundstage is amazing and all the frequency range is represented perfectly !
 it's a wonderful combination !


----------



## oatmeal769

I've been posting in this thread on and off for a good while. Recently I upgraded to a different DAC, but I kept the one I bought from advice I read here.
 I just wrote a shoot-out post, hopefully folks will have some fun with it.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f7/psa...4/#post6089438


----------



## oatmeal769

double post


----------



## gbacic

can anyone in canada who bought one of these off eBay comment on the duty charges?


----------



## gopack87

In regards to using this as a preamp, are there an specific amps that pair well with the Zero? When my Zero arrives I'll being running it through optical into my Macbook. I was thinking maybe the Little Dot Mk3?


----------



## x_lk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gbacic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_can anyone in canada who bought one of these off eBay comment on the duty charges?_

 

Mine was shipped from Hong Kong, duty free, but charged GST by post office. I'm from Alberta.


----------



## gbacic

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *x_lk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine was shipped from Hong Kong, duty free, but charged GST by post office. I'm from Alberta._

 

Awesome, I'm going to get one of these for christmas and just want to know how much it will cost.


----------



## Qonmus

So I'm thinking of parting out my complicated passive speaker system with integrated amp and separate DAC and just going Zero DAC ---> SR225i / HD555 / Audioengine A5's. 

 I'm sure there are some comments in the thread, but is there any reason why you shouldn't use the Zero as a pre-out to a self powered monitor such as the A5 or A2? Thanks.


----------



## Currawong

Does the Zero still default, when you switch it on, to non-pre-out mode, sending the full signal out? If so, I wouldn't recommend it as a pre-amp.


----------



## Qonmus

So you are saying this may damage a pair of self-powered monitors? Or there is some other issue that this might cause?


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does the Zero still default, when you switch it on, to non-pre-out mode, sending the full signal out? If so, I wouldn't recommend it as a pre-amp._

 

Good point Curra. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The best way to avoid such a thing would be to switch the Zero on first before powering anything else up, engage the preamp section making sure that the Zero's vol pot is at min setting and then adjust from there. 

 Peete.


----------



## EluamousNailo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does the Zero still default, when you switch it on, to non-pre-out mode, sending the full signal out? If so, I wouldn't recommend it as a pre-amp._

 

With mine, when it's turned on it's in pre-out mode, but you have to manually turn on the pre-amp/headphone out. I guess since I have mine hooked up to a receiver it doesn't matter for me personally.


----------



## Qonmus

I still don't understand why this would be an issue in my scenario -- Zero DAC --> pre-amp output straight to a pair of audioengines. Would this work, or would there be issues if I forget to change the DAC to pre-out before powering on my speakers?


----------



## alex98uk

Just bought one of these to use solely as a DAC to then go to my Little Dot MK III. I saw it was the newest '09 version, look forward to getting it


----------



## DaLiu

I need some help, i have the Zero DAC with the HDAM, LT1364, and upgraded volume pot from 2008, i didnt used for some time but i manage to buy a new motherboard for my pc and i have optical and coaxial on onboard sound, the problem is that i have sound only on the right side on my headphones, i tried the headphones directly to the card and they are working perfectly, i tried coaxial and optical connection to be sure is not the cables but still the same issue, i think my Zero DAC is broken and im noob, dont know anything about this, can you give me some advise, what can i try, im totally sure the problem is from Zero DAC because like i said i tried the headphones directly to the onboard card, i tried different cables, so the problem can be only from the Zero DAC.


----------



## oatmeal769

I'd first check the 1/4" output jack inside. be sure it is solidly connected to the circuit board, and that the connections inside make good contact. Those jacks are pretty cheap.


----------



## DaLiu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oatmeal769* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd first check the 1/4" output jack inside. be sure it is solidly connected to the circuit board, and that the connections inside make good contact. Those jacks are pretty cheap._

 

 1/4 jack is the problem, the biggest problem now is how i changed it?


----------



## oatmeal769

Unfortunately, it isn't just a quick swap out of a switchcraft. You will need to desolder it carefully from the board, and replace it with the exact same type of input. Take it with you to the electronics store to be sure, most of those guys are pretty helpful (unless you go to Radio Shack, in which case don't listen to anything they say...). 

 it is probably just a simple 3 conductor TRS with a switching ground, but I haven't looked at it.
 The good news is that the whole repair shouldn't cost more than about $3.50, assuming you have basic soldering tools.


----------



## oatmeal769

double post


----------



## crapback

I had a similar problem with my output jack. It actually had nothing to do with the solder connections. I would recommend trying some contact cleaner first before getting involved with swapping that thing. It has 8 tabs instead of pins and won't be much fun to replace. If it had a simple jack I would upgrade the thing but it's an annoying el cheapo. 

 I wasted about two hours thinking I screwed up my installation of a cheap attenuator because some oxidation on the jacks contacts were preventing right channel output. I even ordered the closest things I could find to replace the thing before I figured out the real problem. Luckily, they were only about $10 for 2 of them shipped.


----------



## DaLiu

The only problem im from Europe (Czech Republic), im thinking maybe LAWRENCE can send me a replacement part and i pay to him by paypal or something, ill try to send him a email.


----------



## DaLiu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *crapback* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had a similar problem with my output jack. It actually had nothing to do with the solder connections. I would recommend trying some contact cleaner first before getting involved with swapping that thing. It has 8 tabs instead of pins and won't be much fun to replace. If it had a simple jack I would upgrade the thing but it's an annoying el cheapo. 

 I wasted about two hours thinking I screwed up my installation of a cheap attenuator because some oxidation on the jacks contacts were preventing right channel output. I even ordered the closest things I could find to replace the thing before I figured out the real problem. Luckily, they were only about $10 for 2 of them shipped._

 

Do you think i can find something similar online somewhere?


----------



## crapback

This is the part I ordered. PC mount 1/4" jack Stereo 9 pin Fender amp 88-99 H507-A - eBay (item 180373875682 end time Nov-23-09 02:31:53 PST) It was not easy to find a replacement for the stock jack. I never did put one in though, as the contact cleaner took care of the problem. Try some of this stuff if you can first.
deoxit, great deals on Electronics, Musical Instruments on eBay!


----------



## maxxwizard

i did some opamp rolling. i had started with LT1364 (dac) - LT1469 (amp), but the sound was bright and the treble was too harsh for me. after some combos, i settled on LT1469 - LT1361. it just sounded more balanced and the imaging was better.

 this unit is a great place for audiophiles to start


----------



## sadhill

Hi,

 I stopped using my Zero( on year or so old) for several months, and wanted to try it again with a Hiface 192kHz USB to SPDIF converter (excellent value for money by the way) 

 Very nasty result : 16/44.1 works perfectly, but anything above fails (enormous distorsion) : 24/96 or 24/192 namely.

 The same occurs if the digital message goes first through my Tact 2150, redirected to the Zero through the amp digital out...

 Using my CI Audio VDA2 and a Trends PA10 headphone amp in place of the Zero with the same connections works perfectly well at all frequencies.

 Any idea to solve this issue ???


----------



## oatmeal769

By 'up-converting' the native stream outside the DAC, I think you are probably changing the code - i.e. the DAC can't read it. Solution would be not to use the adapter.


----------



## sadhill

In fact I am NOT upconverting the stream : I was speaking of reading 24/96kHz or 24/192 kHz FLACs unmodified...


----------



## oatmeal769

Hmmm... That's just weird. You'd think that if it was some kind of 'conversion' issue, it wouldn't do 16/44 either. I'm out of ideas.


----------



## sadhill

As the same setup works with the CIAudio DAC (at least for 24/96, as it is not capable of 24/192), I would rather fear a hardware issue with the Zero...

 I did try something else : send some 16/44.1 in the Tact RCS Preamp and output it upsampled 24/192 (the default output for the RCS) to the Zero: doesn't work either.


----------



## Kitarist

So guys is it still worth it?


----------



## Mangemongen

I'm looking for a USB/DAC/Amp that can play 24/96. This isn't the one?

 Edit: Without a loss of quality, considering I have access to all my favorite songs in 24/96 lossless vinyl rips. Almost.


----------



## Yrokam

I wonder if it would be beneficial to pair a DAC such as this one with an inexpensive (ie. not very high quality) amp, such as the Pro-Ject HeadBox II? This would be connected to a computer audio source (Soundblaster X-Fi)


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mangemongen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm looking for a USB/DAC/Amp that can play 24/96. This isn't the one?

 Edit: Without a loss of quality, considering I have access to all my favorite songs in 24/96 lossless vinyl rips. Almost._

 

There are no cheap DAC's that have 24/96 USB ability....that is an expensive addition that would cost in excess of what a fully loaded Zero would go for (HDAM + LT1364's in the head amp section) all by itself. The problem with 24/96 over USB is the hardware number one and the software coding needed to talk to that hardware. The license for the technology is 25KUS......then you need to buy the chips and appropriate surrounding circuitry to make it work at a high level of fidelity (ASYNC). In a budget category no DAC I know of has 24/96 ability over USB. The obvious thing to do is get yourself a SC that can pass bit-perfect data streams via SPDIF COAX bypassing the need for USB.......lots of good quality SC's these days have decent COAX outputs......the bonus to that solution is the COAX/SPDIF interface has loads less jitter than the cheap USB sections these dacs use.

 Peete.


----------



## fizzman911

Hello,

 I am new to this whole thing and after looking at different kinds of DACs I bought the ZERO from coolfungadget on ebay. I can honestly say that I am very pleased since before I was just running my HD280 through my laptop output with itunes. Im now using foobar200 with wasapi though usb to the Zero DAC to my HD280. My question is that when I bought the Zero there were two options with USB one with OPA2604 and one with OPA627. The Zero with the OPA627 was $10 more and I ended up buying that one since I thought it would be better. I was thinking of opgrading to a HDAM OPA moon. On the website ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1 it says that if you have the OPA627 you would only need the single OPA, if you had the OPA2604 you would need the Dual. I dont understand what this means. why would you need a dual one for the other one? Is having a dual better than having a single one? im sorry if this is obvious but im new to all of this...

 thank you


----------



## oatmeal769

The 627's are 'mono' i.e. you need two of them. The others are 'stereo' With the 627's, it comes with a 'brown dog' adapter to make it fit. You'll see it if you open it up.


----------



## sqrpeg

OK Guys, I'm on P.90 if this thread and my Zero is in customs awaiting shipment to me.
 I'm going to be using the Zero as a Dac only, driving a Yaqin 10L (Dynaco ST-70 on steroids) driving Stax Lambda Pros (Eq'ed to flat response). The input will be either a 20 year old Pioneer Elite PDR-05 or a 15 year old Pioneer Elite PDR-19RW (I have both). I don't know if the opamp moded Zero will best the Elite on board dacs but what opamp(s) do you think might have the best chance. I ask because it is really hard to seperate out thise of you who are using the Dac only and with tubes. The Yaqin/tube combo I'm using has the bass about as loose as I think I can go (Elite have a rep for not strong bass a laid back presentation). I would like to keep as much "life" in the mix as I can but am sensitive to upper mid hardness and siblence. I went to the Yaqin because I felt "uninvolved" a lot of the time with my Nelson Pass based amps. Thanks for any op amp suggestions. P.S. I have OPA2134s on hand to drop in.


----------



## shadowlord

Hi, this might have been asked before but i searched and didn't find any information.

 I use win7 home 64bit with the onboard realtek sound with the latest drivers.
 Now a old problem i had re-apeared. The dac relays make a clicking sound everytime before and after a sound is played.

 when i had this problem for the first time, i upgraded to the latest driver and it went away and the relays stayed closed all the time.
 now i have the latest driver and it's clicking again.

 anyone knows a solution?


----------



## andersel

OK, another newbie here... My two week old Zero have been performing fine until last night, when the noise from it just took off. My setup is foobar->optical or usb->Zero (OPA627 + LM4562)->AKG K601. I have heard a faint noise in the highs on some recordings earlier, typically in some live recordings and the guitars in the first seconds of Rihanna's Russian Roulette. But last night, wile swapping some opamps, the amount of noise increased gradually. Now it sounds like a badly tuned FM-radio, and i have to turn the volume knob a lot furhter than before to get decent volume in my cans. I figured it might the volume pot causing it, but using the zero as a dac only gave the same results trough my 5.1 yamaha reciever (didn't disconnect the headamp though...)

 Any ideas what this is all about? 

 And of course, it's from lawrence...


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Double check the ground wire on the headamp board that is a small pice of wire that is soldered to the casing of the vol pot. Is there a wire there to begin with and if so is it securely adhered to the vol pot casing ? Sometimes the solder contact will come free making poor contact. 

 Here is a pic of the area I'm talking about 



 Another issue could be the DAC OPA was accidentally inserted backwards frying a channel when you powered it back up. Is this noise you have uniform in both channels or just one ?

 Peete.


----------



## andersel

Well, i've just had the main pcb out for a quick look, did some cleaning on the back of it, found some small bits of solder where it shouldn't be. Assembled it again, and the big noise was gone! Guess i removed a short somewhere, didn't see any obvious ones though. The noise i experienced was in both channels and most distinct in low frequencies, so i don't think i put an opamp the wrong way. My Zero doesn't have the alps pot, but there is no wire going to the pcb ground as shown in your pic. Will it make a difference?

 And thanks for your quick reply Peete!


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *andersel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, i've just had the main pcb out for a quick look, did some cleaning on the back of it, found some small bits of solder where it shouldn't be. Assembled it again, and the big noise was gone! Guess i removed a short somewhere, didn't see any obvious ones though. The noise i experienced was in both channels and most distinct in low frequencies, so i don't think i put an opamp the wrong way. My Zero doesn't have the alps pot, but there is no wire going to the pcb ground as shown in your pic. Will it make a difference?

 And thanks for your quick reply Peete!_

 

That was going to be my next suggestion should the areas I outlined did not solve your problem. Unfortunately these units are made as fast as possible and the discovery of left over solder spatter on the pcb underside is a rather common occurrence. Your lucky the partial short didn't take out the receiver or dac chip which are both very sensitive to such things (and static charges). If you are experiencing no hum then your fine where the ground wire to the vol pot is concerned. The new version may have addressed this issue. Is this the new version (2009 model with USB) or the older one ?

 I think you should be alright by the sounds of it. Report back in a day or two after testing it out for a full 24 hours straight. I think you've dodged a bullet but I'm glad it's OK for your sake. Nothing sucks worse than having to ship the thing back to China !

 Peete.


----------



## tru\head

I have owned this for maybe 1 year now? But lately the power cable of this amp is becoming loose 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 have to kind of press it down on the back of the amp for the power to stay on, otherwise it has performed well.


 I checked back on this thread because i remember there was some instruction at one point to snip some small caps on the back of the board which said to improve sound quality? Is that still recommended and where can i find out how to do that? thx


----------



## _Spanky_

I think what you're looking for is in here:
Introduction to the Zero DAC and Headphone amplifier. - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio


----------



## stang

I did it, very easy, my first time tweaking any electronic device ( if you can call it tweaking). It brings out the bass and high frequencies better and they aren't muddy anymore.


----------



## nsx_23

^What if you have the later version with 2 sets of RCA jacks on the back?


----------



## igotyofire

these still selling dead on arrival? & which op amp should i get, i notice one cost a lil bit more


----------



## CrazyNikel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *igotyofire* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_these still selling dead on arrival? & which op amp should i get, i notice one cost a lil bit more_

 

I would also like to know this.

 Pairing with Denon 5000's or 2000's


----------



## prospero21

Hey all,

 about 2 years ago I purchased a Zero dac. It has been working flawlessly for that whole period, untill last week. There's no more output on the HeadAmp aswell as in the RCA outputs. I hear the relays clicking when I switch input or when the dac receives a signal, but not a peep from the outputs. 

 I already tried switching opamps, but to no avail. Also checked the pcb for any obvious damage, but could find none.

 Also sending it back to Lawrence is not an option, since the dac is over 2 years old and there's no warranty left on it.

 Does anyone have any ideas ? 

 Really appreciate all the input you guys could give me !

 Cheers !


----------



## verynoisy

A couple of weeks ago, after a few too many beers, I ordered a ZERO DAC-- forgetting that I'd previously read in the forums here that units were arriving defective. Well, mine arrived late and completely dead. I'm going to see if an engineer friend can discover what the problem is. To my mind, it's not worth paying $50 or whatever to ship it back for warranty repair. Maybe that's what they're counting on. Sigh.


----------



## stang

That's why I got it from the most reputable seller at the time. Forgot his name though. I paid a $30 premium and everything is still fine.


----------



## zxc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *igotyofire* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_these still selling dead on arrival? & which op amp should i get, i notice one cost a lil bit more_

 

Got mine from Ebay from a reputable seller around January 2010. Shipped in less than a week. Got the USB version with OAP627's. Sounds great. No issues what so ever. I hear absolutely no background noise at normal listening levels.

 The unit is a lot nicer than I expected. Aluminum face plate, toroidal transformer, smooth volume knob, automatic source switching, etc. I really like the fact that rear RCA outs can output both line level and amped signal, controlled by a switch at the front. 

 I think, for the price, it is a great unit. I can see this being sold for $$$ if it had any affiliation with an English brand.


----------



## verynoisy

I finally got around to troubleshooting the Zero (2009 version) that was dead on arrival. The problem was the fuse! Interestingly, the bad fuse tested fine, so who knows what's going on there. I suppose the fuse could have been damaged during shipping, but that doesn't seem especially likely.

 My reaction upon initial listening (with Grado 325is) is positive! I'm going to try to make some comparisons with the DAC in my Squeezebox 3 and M-Audio Audiophile 2496, and try it with different headphones. Which means a lot of annoying cable swapping...


----------



## miyinan

I am new to hifi stuffs. Is this a dac/amp combo. Do I need to connect it to external dac or amp? I am looking for an easy and simple setup (computer - dac/amp combo - headphone). Will this work for me?


----------



## stang

Yes it is an amp/dac combo. You do not need an external amp and/or DAC. Just run a USB, Coaxial or Optical cable from your computer to the Zero and plug in your headphones to the headphone out


----------



## miyinan

Thanks. I was considering HA NG98 too. But I am now leaning toward the Zero. Has anybody here ever tried NG98? I know they are a lot smaller than the Zero but use similar parts, are they any good compared to the Zero?


----------



## JiggY

First post on the forum, but here we go
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So after having read a lot about the zero dac on this forum and also having listened to it at one of my friends house, I finally decided to buy it. The unit looks good and when it plays, it plays really well, except for the sound to be a little unbalanced L/R at low levels. However I have come across a problem which I cannot find help on fixing anywhere.

 I use the zero on my pc (with a creative SB X-Fi card) to double as a headphone amp for my Denon AH-D2000's and a preamp for my stereo amplifier. The zero I have received is the 2009 model (with USB) and has been upgraded with the OPA627 opamps.

 As until last week I have been using the "Speakers" setting in the windows 7 "sound" control panel, which has been working fine (and still is). However when I got my Denon's last week I noticed the option to set "SPDIF Out" in the "sound" options to "set as default device". I immediately heard an improvement in sound quality and therefore naturally wish to keep using this setting. However this is where the problem is. 

 When running the zero with the SPDIF out set as "default device" I hear a short, but loud, static "click" every time I start a music file on my computer, also when there is silence between individual songs in a playlist, and also when opening movies etc. Basically the static "click" occurs every time there is no continuous audio output through the SPDIF Out, so when an audio clip is played it starts with the static "click", then the song plays, and ends with a static "click" after it is over. This seems strange as there is no problem when using the "speakers" "as default device" setting except for overall lower sound quality of course.
 To make things even more strange, if I open an audio file in say, windows media player, then stop it again, but leave the program open in the background, the problem seems to disappear for as long as I just leave media player open in the background. 
 I tried my dac at my friends place on his computer, and the problem was the same. However his dac (which is the old model without USB function) does not have this static "click" problem as mine does when using the SPDIF Out. So something seems to be wrong with my zero, except it can be fixed by leaving a song paused in windows media player.. Very strange, and annoying.

 As a final note I can ad that the zero also plays a static noise when powering up for about 2 seconds. I don't know if that is normal or not, however that doesn't really bother me.

 If someone has a solution to this problem or has had a similar experience with the zero I would be overly glad to hear how to solve this problem
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ps. I hope that this hasn't been posted before, at least I couldn't find it anywhere.


----------



## BmWr75

OK guys, what's the verdict on this DAC/amp? I ain't got time to read 611 pages. 

 The headphones used will be Beyerdynamic 770/600s and Son MDR-V6s. Source will be Apple Airport Express running Apple Lossless files ripped from CDs.


----------



## BmWr75

Sorry-----double post-------latency is a bitch!!!!


----------



## techenvy

how does this fair against dac magic


----------



## techenvy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JiggY* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_First post on the forum, but here we go
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 So after having read a lot about the zero dac on this forum and also having listened to it at one of my friends house, I finally decided to buy it. The unit looks good and when it plays, it plays really well, except for the sound to be a little unbalanced L/R at low levels. However I have come across a problem which I cannot find help on fixing anywhere.

 I use the zero on my pc (with a creative SB X-Fi card) to double as a headphone amp for my Denon AH-D2000's and a preamp for my stereo amplifier. The zero I have received is the 2009 model (with USB) and has been upgraded with the OPA627 opamps.

 As until last week I have been using the "Speakers" setting in the windows 7 "sound" control panel, which has been working fine (and still is). However when I got my Denon's last week I noticed the option to set "SPDIF Out" in the "sound" options to "set as default device". I immediately heard an improvement in sound quality and therefore naturally wish to keep using this setting. However this is where the problem is. 

 When running the zero with the SPDIF out set as "default device" I hear a short, but loud, static "click" every time I start a music file on my computer, also when there is silence between individual songs in a playlist, and also when opening movies etc. Basically the static "click" occurs every time there is no continuous audio output through the SPDIF Out, so when an audio clip is played it starts with the static "click", then the song plays, and ends with a static "click" after it is over. This seems strange as there is no problem when using the "speakers" "as default device" setting except for overall lower sound quality of course.
 To make things even more strange, if I open an audio file in say, windows media player, then stop it again, but leave the program open in the background, the problem seems to disappear for as long as I just leave media player open in the background. 
 I tried my dac at my friends place on his computer, and the problem was the same. However his dac (which is the old model without USB function) does not have this static "click" problem as mine does when using the SPDIF Out. So something seems to be wrong with my zero, except it can be fixed by leaving a song paused in windows media player.. Very strange, and annoying.

 As a final note I can ad that the zero also plays a static noise when powering up for about 2 seconds. I don't know if that is normal or not, however that doesn't really bother me.

 If someone has a solution to this problem or has had a similar experience with the zero I would be overly glad to hear how to solve this problem
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ps. I hope that this hasn't been posted before, at least I couldn't find it anywhere._

 

that is crazy weird man,, this unit just became a little less attractive,

 so you have the 09 version, no need to upgrade opamp? and what are e specs on theeusb? 44.1 ?


----------



## stang

It sounds as if my Zero is the only good one. I also have the 2009 version with USB and OPA627


----------



## kunalraiker

This DAC is a decent one for the $100.00 it cost, nice home solution on budget mate.


----------



## stang

More like double that when bought brand new off a reputable seller, add postage and convert usd to aud


----------



## kunalraiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *stang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_More like double that when bought brand new off a reputable seller, add postage and convert usd to aud 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

mate what's up, been a while anything new i need to know about in your audio quest


----------



## stang

Well I splurged $260 on M-Audio AV 40 speakers, 5M of copper 16AWG wiring and a 3M 3.5mm to RCA cable 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't think I will be able to get a really good DAC for a while. I am still trying to figure out if I should still hook up the AV 40 speakers via the hp out of my onboard sound card or to buy another DAC. Probably won't use the speakers all that much, so might as well just run it off my onboard audio. I wish the Zero had two RCA out...


----------



## kunalraiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *stang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 Well I splurged $260 on M-Audio AV 40 speakers, 5M of copper 16AWG wiring and a 3M 3.5mm to RCA cable 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't think I will be able to get a really good DAC for a while. I am still trying to figure out if I should still hook up the AV 40 speakers via the hp out of my onboard sound card or to buy another DAC. Probably won't use the speakers all that much, so might as well just run it off my onboard audio. I wish the Zero had two RCA out..._

 

The speakers are really nice mate, as per the review, what do they sound like 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, I would stay away from speakers for a while


----------



## Amatsu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JiggY* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_First post on the forum, but here we go
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So after having read a lot about the zero dac on this forum and also having listened to it at one of my friends house, I finally decided to buy it. The unit looks good and when it plays, it plays really well, except for the sound to be a little unbalanced L/R at low levels. However I have come across a problem which I cannot find help on fixing anywhere.

 I use the zero on my pc (with a creative SB X-Fi card) to double as a headphone amp for my Denon AH-D2000's and a preamp for my stereo amplifier. The zero I have received is the 2009 model (with USB) and has been upgraded with the OPA627 opamps.

 As until last week I have been using the "Speakers" setting in the windows 7 "sound" control panel, which has been working fine (and still is). However when I got my Denon's last week I noticed the option to set "SPDIF Out" in the "sound" options to "set as default device". I immediately heard an improvement in sound quality and therefore naturally wish to keep using this setting. However this is where the problem is. 

 When running the zero with the SPDIF out set as "default device" I hear a short, but loud, static "click" every time I start a music file on my computer, also when there is silence between individual songs in a playlist, and also when opening movies etc. Basically the static "click" occurs every time there is no continuous audio output through the SPDIF Out, so when an audio clip is played it starts with the static "click", then the song plays, and ends with a static "click" after it is over. This seems strange as there is no problem when using the "speakers" "as default device" setting except for overall lower sound quality of course.
 To make things even more strange, if I open an audio file in say, windows media player, then stop it again, but leave the program open in the background, the problem seems to disappear for as long as I just leave media player open in the background. 
 I tried my dac at my friends place on his computer, and the problem was the same. However his dac (which is the old model without USB function) does not have this static "click" problem as mine does when using the SPDIF Out. So something seems to be wrong with my zero, except it can be fixed by leaving a song paused in windows media player.. Very strange, and annoying.

 As a final note I can ad that the zero also plays a static noise when powering up for about 2 seconds. I don't know if that is normal or not, however that doesn't really bother me.

 If someone has a solution to this problem or has had a similar experience with the zero I would be overly glad to hear how to solve this problem
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ps. I hope that this hasn't been posted before, at least I couldn't find it anywhere._

 

It seems to me that the clicks may happen because it's changing the sampling rate or something like that. Read this post: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/mav...ml#post6587356

 It also happens with my sound card (X-fi) if I use ASIO. I have the sound card configured as 44khz, that's usually the default sample rate of most music, but if I play a music file that it's 48khz for example, I got a noise at the start because the program is changing the sample rate automatically.


----------



## stang

Well I only just paid for them, so they won't come for a couple of days unfortunately. The place I bought them from are located in Melbourne. I could go pick them up, but I got school aths tomorrow so I wouldn't be able to make it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Postage was free, so I thought why not 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I might try buy a DAC for them, nothing more than a Zero though. I would like something like a small DAC, like the size of my palm, but we'll see. 

 Yeah, stay away from speakers if you don't wanna end up spending a lot on cables etc 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just bought them coz sometimes I have being confined between my headphones and it stresses me out, mainly when I am doing homework etc 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I also need them for when friends come over etc. 

 Well enough talking on a Zero DAC thread


----------



## Zoltan99

Im in the US looking to buy one of these, I guess from ebay. Who is a reputable seller and what opamp combination should I look for to get the best results for rock and movies.

 Also, this might sound odd, but I am a bit concerned with something like this catching on fire and burning my house down.


----------



## nsx_23

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *stang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 Well I splurged $260 on M-Audio AV 40 speakers, 5M of copper 16AWG wiring and a 3M 3.5mm to RCA cable 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't think I will be able to get a really good DAC for a while. I am still trying to figure out if I should still hook up the AV 40 speakers via the hp out of my onboard sound card or to buy another DAC. Probably won't use the speakers all that much, so might as well just run it off my onboard audio. I wish the Zero had two RCA out..._

 

Did you buy them here? Store DJ: Products: PA / Speakers / Amps: Studio Monitors: M-Audio Studiophile AV 40 (Pair)

 I need something to replace my craptastic bose computer speakers.


----------



## stang

I was going to, but I needed to pay via paypal (my money is in there, not the bank), so I bought them from PonyMusic. Apparently they have ran out of stock and won't be in for 2-4 months, so they offered me the nEar 05 eXperience for no extra charge, so I took them up on it. I am not sure if I will like them or not, but if I don't I am sure someone may be interested in them. They said they won't have them until late next week, so I won't be able to give you impressions of them for a week or so.


----------



## same64

Im trying to read all the posts.I think i need few afternoons for it.
 One question guys, when i switch Zero dac power on and try to play music (no with headphones)straight away there is very low volume music coming out but after few seconds the sound breaking thru and after that is ok..
 Is that normal?.
 Just order it Moon ,is it difficult to install?
 Thanks guys.
 Just new to dac thing.


----------



## nsx_23

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *stang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was going to, but I needed to pay via paypal (my money is in there, not the bank), so I bought them from PonyMusic. Apparently they have ran out of stock and won't be in for 2-4 months, so they offered me the nEar 05 eXperience for no extra charge, so I took them up on it. I am not sure if I will like them or not, but if I don't I am sure someone may be interested in them. They said they won't have them until late next week, so I won't be able to give you impressions of them for a week or so._

 

I wonder if anyone here is a member. Could save me a bundle


----------



## stang

It's only $45. Funny thing is the AV-40 are $230 there I think and after paying $45 for membership, they are only $169. Cheaper to register and buy them, as opposed to just buying them straight up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If only they accepted PayPal. Oh well, I hope the speakers that I ordered are good. I already wasted $30 on speaker wire and a 3.5mm to RCA cable for the AV 40 which I will not be recieving now. I gotta spend another $30 for a pair of 1.5M RCA cables and TS adaptors and right angled RCA adaptors and another DAC.


----------



## ckghagen

My zero dac does not work

 I have a simple multimeter
 and soldering station
 NOTE no Oscilloscope

 This I know
 There is digital signal in but i get no sound out of the zero
 The dac seems to detect the coax signal (red led lights up) when a signal from my soundcard i start

 All transistors/voltage regulators has the right voltage as far as i know
 Nothing looks broken, burnt, loose
 no leaking or swollen caps


----------



## nsx_23

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *stang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's only $45. Funny thing is the AV-40 are $230 there I think and after paying $45 for membership, they are only $169. Cheaper to register and buy them, as opposed to just buying them straight up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 If only they accepted PayPal. Oh well, I hope the speakers that I ordered are good. I already wasted $30 on speaker wire and a 3.5mm to RCA cable for the AV 40 which I will not be recieving now. I gotta spend another $30 for a pair of 1.5M RCA cables and TS adaptors and right angled RCA adaptors and another DAC._

 

Just get a debit card from your bank.

 The Audioengine A5 would be my other option.


----------



## stang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ckghagen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My zero dac does not work

 I have a simple multimeter
 and soldering station
 NOTE no Oscilloscope

 This I know
 There is digital signal in but i get no sound out of the zero
 The dac seems to detect the coax signal (red led lights up) when a signal from my soundcard i start

 All transistors/voltage regulators has the right voltage as far as i know
 Nothing looks broken, burnt, loose
 no leaking or swollen caps_

 

Actually, the red light is optical, blue coax and green USB. Push the Input button until the light goes blue (I assume you are using COAX). If no luck, fiddle around with the Preamp section. If you are using your headphones straight from the Zero's headphone out, press the Pre amp button and turn the volume up to the volume which is comfortable for you. If you are just using it as a DAC to another amplifier, then turn off that Preamp function.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just get a debit card from your bank.

 The Audioengine A5 would be my other option._

 

I am going to get something like that soon, after my birthday in a few weeks. My pick would be to go back to the AV 40 if I dislike these ESI nEar 05 monitors. I should be able to sell them for a reasonable profit, considering they usually sell for $400 brand new here.


----------



## techenvy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just get a debit card from your bank.

 The Audioengine A5 would be my other option._

 

what are some better bookshelf speaker than some klipsch Rb51's,, they sound great but i need a bit more punch,,,,, amp is probably part of it but none the less others can punch harder??

 also here a good one ,,,, zero or dr. dac or nuforce hdp also isnt there a dac1 overature,, i worry there are copy's of these out there ...and will the STock Zero suffice, or must one roll opamps?

 thanks


----------



## Zoltan99

Has anybody played any games with the Zero? Im not expecting much, but how do basic games sound like Counter Strike.


----------



## | Scorpio |

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zoltan99* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anybody played any games with the Zero? Im not expecting much, but how do basic games sound like Counter Strike._

 

I use it with my Xbox, and I play competitive Halo along with some other casual games. It works extremely well.


----------



## Cya|\|

Sorry is this has been asked already, but how would you compare a zero dac 2009 with upgraded opamps to a FUN audio-gd amp/dac?
  I know they have different prices, but audio gd has just released the sparrow headphon amp/dac, wich costs about like the zero dac. It has the same sound of the fun dac. I asked about the fun dac because i guess no one has tried the sparrow yet.


----------



## Currawong

Even the Sparrow will surely be far better than the Zero.  The Compass was considerably better than the Zero, and the ACSS Fun is quite a bit better than the Compass.  The purpose of getting Audio-gd to make the Compass in the first place was so that people would have an alternative to the unreliable and poorly-made Zero.


----------



## Cya|\|

Was the compass the old version of the c2? Because i can't find anything for about the same price of the zero dac, with rca outputs, except the sparrow, wich is not good if you have speaker monitors too.


----------



## Currawong

The Compass was the predecessor to the Fun.  It was sold at cost ($260) initially, while the "fully upgraded" Zero was about $220.


----------



## Phos

Way back in the first post, Penchum mentions this thing picking up interfearence from wifi, does anyone have any details over this?  Giving up Wifi on my desktop wouldn't be easy.  Also, I see some rumblings that the Audio gd Sparrow is better than it at a similar price point, does this hold true when used as an Amp/DAC combo?


----------



## same64

[size=x-small]Hi guys..[/size]
  [size=x-small]My zero developed problem .[/size]
  [size=x-small]Im running optical from cd player and there was no problem until last night .There is only little sound coming from dac ,very low volume.[/size]
  [size=x-small]I,ve changed opamps but its still the same.[/size]
  [size=x-small]I wonder if you guys come across same problem.[/size]
  [size=x-small]thanks in Advance.[/size]
  [size=x-small]regards[/size]


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





techenvy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> ...


 

 If you don't mind a little DIY this kit from partsexpress.com is very very good for the price.  http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-640
   
  Peete.


----------



## Mangudai

So if I want to connect it to my pc as a dac(usb) I need the 2009 version? Also is it possible to use it as as a dac and amp at the same time?


----------



## Mangudai

No one?


----------



## Mad Max

Your questions are answered in the previous pages: _*Y E S*_.
  Get the 2009 version and pop ADA4627-1BR in the amp and DAC sections then kick back and love your music.


----------



## owenhamburg

My Zero is an OK device, but the Gain is wrong for my headphones, This is my work set up. Its the "09" version and it has too much gain for my Sennheiser HD 485 a high efficiency low resistance at 32 Ohm headphones 110dB, this is particularly annoying as the range on the volume control tracks especially badly.
   
  I have to adjust the gain should we make a Wiki pages from this thread? Its to big to read in complete.
   
 I imagined their has been come posts on this subject in this thread, 
  
 I imagine setting the op-amps gain is trivial, and will only take two resistors per channel has anyone done this and what did they do?


----------



## Caphead78

Quote: 





phos said:


> Way back in the first post, Penchum mentions this thing picking up interfearence from wifi, does anyone have any details over this?  Giving up Wifi on my desktop wouldn't be easy.  Also, I see some rumblings that the Audio gd Sparrow is better than it at a similar price point, does this hold true when used as an Amp/DAC combo?


 

 I have it right by my laptop and so far have not heard any wifi interference.


----------



## VictoriaGuy

Quote: 





dancingpotato said:


> I have a Xonar DS sound card and I would like to know what is the best way to attach the Zero24 Bit  to my computer so I can play flac files which are on my hard drive and listen to them with headphones. If necessary I will purchase a different sound card because the Xonar does not have a line out.
> 
> 1. Can I use the S/PDIF out?
> 2. Can i use the speakers out?
> ...


 
  I'm not familiar with your soundcard, but I do own/use a Zero09. I mistakenly bought the model without the USB, but I've ordered the USB board and it's on its way from China.
 It's a DAC, (and headphone amp/preamp) so it needs digital input, not analog from a spkr or line out.
  S/PDIF should work.
  If you use USB, you just connect the DAC to the computer USB and the system (XP, 7,  whatever) will recognize the DAC as a USB sound card. Then you can play flac files and output to the DAC via USB. The USB receiver in the Zero is 'limited' to 48kHz max sample rate, so if playing 96kHz or 192kHz files is a big priority, the USB connection on the Zero is not for you. Of course, you can get your media player (fubar??) to down-sample the file to 44.1 before it leaves the computer if you want.
  There are USB DACs that can accept higher sample rate files.
  Hope this helps- this thread is way too long to read all the way through unless you have a lot of spare time.....
   
  John


----------



## Wingzero

I have a xonar ds aswell.
   
  On the back it has a port labelled optical however it is 3.5mm shape/size. How would i output from this to the Zero DAC?
   
  My motherboard has on onboard sound with a proper optical port shall I just use this instead as the Zero will be doing DAC anyway ?


----------



## dfwallace

RE// This  Zero DAC Headphone Amp...
   
  I'm not an audiophile, but want very good sound for music listening through my PC computer in a small 'office room'. I have no speakers now(Just an old, cheap Logitech USB headset that I'm giving to son), but I'm probably about to get the 'active' Swan M200 Mk III's. I have a Creative X-Fi internal sound card. I have Grado headphones(being used downstairs).  75% of the time, I'll be listening to the music through the new speakers, and the rest with the Grado headphones.
   
  Questions...
  *Will this product hook up to these speakers, and work in my system?
  *Will this Zero DAC unit help my music to sound better? Most of it is MP3 at 320bps. Or, get a different DAC?
  *Are there other DAC's aound @ $200>$375 that are better?
  *Should I also get a better sound card, ie, the Xonar Essence STX?
  *If I have a budget issue, then get the Zero DAC or Xonar sound card?
  *I'd like to go back and forth from speakers to headphones easily...will that work? ( I'll also use headphones and separate mic for computer gaming with son and on the chat program 'TeamSpeak' used for online gaming)
  *Though it would be difficult spacewise, I could use my older stereo receiver, a Yamaha RX-V492, and get 'passive' speakers, and then connect to my computer... is this a good alternative? ...If I do that then which of the above components are , or are not, necessary?
  *Other speaker suggestions?  Nothing bigger than the Swan's ( @ 14"x9"x7"), and would prefer smaller if possible...
  *Total money available approximately... $600-$800
   
  Some of these questions are probably dumb, and you can quickly tell I don't have a clue about this stuff... so, any help/ideas/suggestions are welcomed... PLEASE....     
   
  signed...
  CLUELESS IN RHODE ISLAND...


----------



## VictoriaGuy

I'm just putting down a few thoughts since you don't seem to be getting many answers...
  (A new thread might be a good idea?)
   
  Questions...
  *Will this product hook up to these speakers, and work in my system?
  If you are talking about the USB version of the Zero -or any USB DAC- yes. Just plug it in, and select it as the audio output device.
  Does your sound card have digital out? optical out?
   
  *Will this Zero DAC unit help my music to sound better? Most of it is MP3 at 320bps. Or, get a different DAC?
  I can't comment on this. Better speakers=better sound. Are you going to be listening 'near field' to the speakers, or using them like 'bookshelf' speakers and listening from farther away? A headphone amp will make your headphones sound better than just plugging them into your soundcard, IMO
   
  *Are there other DAC's aound @ $200>$375 that are better?
  The Zero is quite a bit less than that price. There are other DAC/HP amp/Preamp combos in that price range, but I haven't heard them (yet). (audio-gd, Grant Fidelity, Maverick are some names that spring to mind) No comment from me on DAC comparisons - the differences are fairly subtle IMO in the kind of setup you will have.
   
  *Should I also get a better sound card, ie, the Xonar Essence STX?
  That is not the route I would go for 'hifi' music. I'm not interested in games, though - that may make a difference.
   
  *If I have a budget issue, then get the Zero DAC or Xonar sound card?
  Lots of options here, including getting a cheap USB DAC and pairing it with a better HP Amp/Preamp combo.
   
  *I'd like to go back and forth from speakers to headphones easily...will that work?
  Yes
  ( I'll also use headphones and separate mic for computer gaming with son and on the chat program 'TeamSpeak' used for online gaming)
  That would be using your soundcard for the gaming/teamspeak and the USB DAC for music? Could be done- probably have to select the output device in the computer?
  *Though it would be difficult spacewise, I could use my older stereo receiver, a Yamaha RX-V492, and get 'passive' speakers, and then connect to my computer... is this a good alternative?
  That would work as well.
   
  If I do that then which of the above components are , or are not, necessary?
  All, or none? You can figure this one out. You already have a DAC in your soundcard. HP jack on receiver. Only you can judge the quality you need/want/can afford/can hear.
   
  *Other speaker suggestions?  Nothing bigger than the Swan's ( @ 14"x9"x7"), and would prefer smaller if possible...
  There has been some favourable talk about some Behringer monitor speakers (?active and passive both available, around $300??), but I haven't heard them. Speaker quality/placement will make a big difference. If you eliminated the speaker option, getting to high-quality sound would be easier - that's been my experience..so far.
  John
   
  John


----------



## dfwallace

Thx, John...
   
  Sticking w/ the sound card I have (Creative X-Fi), and getting a DAC and 'active' speakers....would be a hassle to fit my Yamaha receiver into this tight space and then use 'passive' speakers.
   
  For a DAC, at this point, I'm leaning to the Cambridge Audio 'DAC Magic' ( @ $429 ). (  http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/specifications.php?PID=320&Title=Specifications ). Maybe I'm blind, but I'm not seeing that it has a headphone amp/connector...??    I had considered the Little Dot DAC_1 ( @ $260 ), but the necessary set-up process for it is cumbersome.
   
  For 'active' speakers, the Swan M200 Mk III's are too expensive for me. I might just get the KRK  Gen2 Rokit 5's from BestBuy for @ $300. I also saw a quick review of some Behringer MS40's...will look into these more...can't believe they are @ $165.
   
  $700 or so is my budget for everything now. I am not an audiophile, but want better than the typical quality I've been hearing at my desktop...
   
  What do you think?


----------



## dfwallace

EDIT...    Sorry, double-posted...


----------



## VictoriaGuy

The Cambridge audio DAC may be a good unit - I haven't heard one. It does have the benefit of a 'known' brand name, so you could always re-sell it at some point- though I doubt that most DACs will hold value well.
  For myself, I wouldn't put that much of my budget into a DAC ($450/700). I don't think you will see the benefit, especially with the system you will have.
  I think you should look at DAC/preamp combos in the $125-250 range:
  Zero
  audio-gd
  Maverick
   
  and pair that with either some decent active speakers like the Behringer B2031A? ($350) or passive speakers and a chipamp power amp (T-amp ?) @$50.
  With shipping costs that would use up your $700.
   
  John


----------



## VictoriaGuy

I just had a look at the Cambridge unit you linked-
  It's a DAC-only unit..how do you plan to handle the preamp/volume control/headphone amp/power amp functions?
   
  I think you should start a new thread:'Suggestions for $700 computer audio system, please!' and get some fresh ideas.
  Asking at other sites like AudioKarma would get some more speaker ideas, as well...though many head-fi folks have very good speaker systems as well.
  John


----------



## Intuvati

hello, I dont mean to thread jack, so just one quick question. right now i have an Auzentech x-fi forte, and i listen to my music from lossless sources on my pc. I've been waiting for the iBasso D6 which just started selling on their website today, and i thought I'd just give one last look over here before I buy something. If we disregard the portability features of the iBasso unit, which one of these would be best for me? I use a pair of sennheiser hd555 (will probably get 600/650 in future) and would like a nice DAC/AMP to go with them. I heard the D4 was pretty good, and the d6 is an upgraded form of it, but would the ZERO sound better? again, most of the time, the unit that i buy will remain on my desk, the only added benefit of the d6 is that i could take it on the train with me, other than that i can take them both with me when i travel to and form my home and my university campus. any thoughts?
   
  edit: if it helps, i like to listen to a lot of orchestral/instrumental (soundtracks etc), and i really like it when i can 'feel' the music. my x-fi forte does a nice job, but i have to play with the digital source a lot to make it sound 'as it should' and of course the extra noise from the computer doesn't help at all. it would be nice to be able to just pass on the clean source and have a unit take care of the rest.


----------



## Intuvati

sorry double post
   
  edit: nvm, i bought one, cant wait to try it out/burn it in


----------



## John Grady

Hey guys,
   
  I want to be able to hook up my Senn 650's to this Zero Amp, then the amp to my Yamaha Receiver and then an mp3 player into the receiver with an aux cable but I am not getting any sound.
   
  I am using an optical cable from the amp to the receiver but there is no red light shining through no matter which I plug into first; I have tried two optical cables..could it be that both optical plugs are not working?
   
  Is there any other way to do this; I would also like to be able to hook the amp up to the receiver and use the headphones when watching blu rays.
   
  Thanks for any help!


----------



## VictoriaGuy

Quote: 





john grady said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I want to be able to hook up my Senn 650's to this Zero Amp, then the amp to my Yamaha Receiver and then an mp3 player into the receiver with an aux cable but I am not getting any sound.
> 
> ...


 

 Does your Yamaha receiver provide Digital *Out* via the Optical jack?
  I don't understand exactly what want to do with the ZeroDAC, and why...
  The ZeroDAC is looking for digital input and will output an analog signal via the RCAs on the back panel, or into the headphone amp which is in the same case.
  Your mp3 player contains a DAC. Your Yamaha also contains a DAC, from the sounds of it.
  Doesn't your Yamaha have a headphone jack? Why not just use it?


----------



## John Grady

Hmm, I guess that's the problem. The Receiver has two optical plugs but I suppose both are optical in's. Well I want to use the ZeroDAC because I have played music through just the Receiver and then just the Zero with the Senn 650's and the Zero powers the headphones a whole lot better; the music sounds a ton better going through that.


----------



## Intuvati

so i totally broke down and got one (http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260685413881&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT)
  and i feel like a kid at christmas agan, anyway, i see that it comes with OPA2604 (I assume its an all-around good one) but everywhere i read about the 627s, i can't help but want one, i mean, whenever someone describes what it does over the stock, i think "man thats totally me, i want that". Anyways, if i do get one, do i have to do any soldering to replace the dac? i think i remember reading a few [hundred] pages back that soldering wasn't needed.
   
  also, if anyone knows where i can get one for really cheap...


----------



## Erickq

The OPA2604 is placed in a socket. You can just remove it by pulling it out and replacing it with another OPA. This guy posted some picures of it:
   
  http://www.flickr.com/photos/lars-schenk/2915827446/in/photostream/
   
  I also recieved my ZERO yesterday! I'm totally new to this high quality audio stuff, and I really like this setting. I use it with a sennheiser HD650 which I also received yesterday. It seemed a nice way to start listening to audio in good quality, and I am truly amazed.
   
  Unfortunately I cannot compare it with anything else because this really is the first head-amp and headphone I own. Anyway, I read this forum very thoroughly, and all the comments on this forum were very useful for me. I'm sure I will enjoy this for a long time!


----------



## eimis

Quote: 





owenhamburg said:


> My Zero is an OK device, but the Gain is wrong for my headphones, This is my work set up. Its the "09" version and it has too much gain for my Sennheiser HD 485 a high efficiency low resistance at *32 Ohm* headphones 110dB, this is particularly annoying as the range on the volume control tracks especially badly.
> 
> I have to adjust the gain should we make a Wiki pages from this thread? Its to big to read in complete.
> 
> ... 


  I've got denon ah-d1001 (32ohm) and I also think that Zero gain is bad for low impedance and sensitive headphones... IMO sound is distorted at low volumes and too harsh/loud at volume that distortion is not as presented.


----------



## owenhamburg

Quote: 





eimis said:


> I've got denon ah-d1001 (32ohm) and I also think that Zero gain is bad for low impedance and sensitive headphones... IMO sound is distorted at low volumes and too harsh/loud at volume that distortion is not as presented.


   
  I did not have enough low watt resistors to do a final job this weekend, but I did reduce the gain for my Zero 09 DAC slightly, as a headphone amplifier for HD 485.
   
  In the duel op amp in the zero 09 headphone amp, one channel set up as a non inverting buffer with 100% feedback, driving the volume control. The other half of the duel op amp seemed on my brief look to be part of the transistor drive circuit of the headphones, so the side effects of changes seemed to require more understanding of the circuit and some re-engineering, I took the option to reduce the volume rather than reducing the amps gain after the volume control.
   
  I changed the output resister from the non inverting buffer output to the volume control. The original value was 1K in series with a 100K volume control. I changed this to 15K 1/4 Watt, (the PCB holes are small) resistor in series with the 100K volume control. I will probably letter try some higher values including 22K, 47K, 100K, 150K and 200K. With the 15K series resistor, the gain is not significantly changed, but for me the volume range I listen too at work is now outside the volume controls poor tracking range, so it was worth the effort.
   

   Increasing the load the inverting buffer has to drive, should have no negative effects, I would even suggest that driving a higher load would improve the performance since the op amp should be driving the load in Class A. Provided you don't reduce the System gain too much and thermal noise becomes an issue. This should be no issue with the relatively resistors I suggest testing to match your system.
   
  The total cost of this modification is in the area of 0.10 Euro, yes ten cents, and will make my work listening volume a little lower and more comfortable, If you are having issues with the volume control this might be the change you should start with.
   
  I used a cheap 19 Euro soldering iron, with a thermostat (thermostats improve your soldering), a cheap solder removing tool, (About 5 Euro which is recommended to anyone who has a soldering iron) some multi core solder, and I also used a resistance meter (as a contact tester) to track components (The resister is next to the op amp) on the board (checking that I had followed the track correctly which is hard to do just by eye), and a simple screwdriver to take the zero apart.
   
  For my use I suspect I will buy at least 10 of each value of resistor for my stores, I would suggest 22K, 47K, 100K, 150K and 200K resistor low watt 1% tolerance resisters with thin leads suitable for this job. If none of these reduce the volume range enough for me, I will then look at replacing the potentiometer, with a 10K or 50K Log values and keeping the load between 100K and 300K. This is the series resistance, or the resistance for the potentiometer plus your changed resistor. I expect I no lower than 100K for fear of loading the op amp (moving out of class a), or higher than 500K for fear of thermal noise.
   

   Owen Hamburg


----------



## Intuvati

so after about 50 or so hours of burning in, this unit is really starting to sound great. However, I really do need some more bass, and from what i've heard, the 627 is the way to go. Its my understanding that i need the AP and NOT the AU model. previously, i was under the impression that the 627 went in the DAC part of the unit, but it seems this is not the case, in which case i would need two... just so i know, is this the right unit? so i need two of these, and what about the DAC section? What i'm looking for is something that will compliment my sources, most of which are orchestras, movie soundtracks, etc. on my old x-fi forte, i turned the bass knobs and treble knobs all the way to the right, and when the opening drums started to go (eg, "A Far Cry" from Escaflowne ost2), my phones quite literally shook (just a lil bit). If I have to sacrifice some of that for a more natural sound, so be it.
   
   
  anyways, from page1 of this thread, the LT1364, LT1361, and LM4562 DACs are listed as being great with the 627... any ideas for the kind of music i listen to? i tried reading this whole thread but that idea soon went down the pooper


----------



## ads2

Hi there,
  I have bought the Zero more than 2 years ago, so I dob't have the 2009 version. I have a version with Lawrtence HDAM.
  So a few questions :
  How does Lawrence HDAM compared to GDAudio Discrete OPA (moon earth, Sun) ?
  What is the best OPA for the Amp part that go well with the HDAM ?
   
  I ear a background noise, that increase while increasing volume.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Could this come from the "original" rotary potentiometer ?
  The only mod I have is the HDAM, what else do you suggest ? soldering is not an issue, use to make DIY stuff...
  Regards
   
  Armindo


----------



## Intuvati

After some research (thanks google) i've decided to go with the audio-gd discrete opamps, earth/moon/sunV2 (i'll buy one of each, just so i'll have them all handy  ) and i would like to know as well, which chips work well in the head amp section? I'm not _really_ ready to buy a dedicated tube-amp yet, so I want to make this zero a great one. on the first page here, (for example) the 627s in the dac and the LT1364 are both said to be great, but does that only apply when they're used together like that? or am i an idiot and would the LT1364 be good with any DAC?
  (most likely i'm an idiot)


----------



## Fantasysage

Which is the correct ebay store to get one of these from?


----------



## DemonicLemming

I picked mine up freom wsz0304 (Shenzhen Audio Store) recently, and it took exactly 5 days from me hitting the "Confirm purchase" button to it showing up at my front door.  No issues at all, and he was very quick to shoot me an email asking about color and voltage choice (I had forgotten to put them in at the payment details).
  
  Quote: 





fantasysage said:


> Which is the correct ebay store to get one of these from?


----------



## Kusari

Hi, everyone!
   
  Bought my own Zero Dac two years ago (got the original model without USB), because of this review. It was cheap and had a good sound quality. I used it with AKG K701's and thought it was a great pair!
   
  Sadly couple of days ago my Zero died. Couple of weeks (maybe months?) it had a weird problem that sometimes while I was listening to music the sound started cracking terribly. It always got solved after I closed the iTunes (used computer as a source for this setup) and started it again and it worked again, didn't have to touch to the Zero DAC. Then on one nice morning the Zero was completely dead 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The lights go on (so it has power), but there's no sound. Doesn't matter if I'm using phones or the line outs, completely dead. When it worked if used the phones and turned the volume all the way up (with no input) I could hear pretty loud hissing. Right now this is also gone. So it has power, but it doesn't give any output. Is there any good ideas where I could start to solve the problem? Do you guys think this is fixable ? The PCB and all the components look fine and anything doesn't look burned or damaged.
   
  Thanks


----------



## Fantasysage

Quote: 





kusari said:


> Hi, everyone!
> 
> Bought my own Zero Dac two years ago (got the original model without USB), because of this review. It was cheap and had a good sound quality. I used it with AKG K701's and thought it was a great pair!
> 
> ...


 

 Sounds like your PC is the broken part there mate.


----------



## Kusari

Quote: 





fantasysage said:


> Sounds like your PC is the broken part there mate.


 
  I tried the DAC on my other computer with same results. I don't have anything else to test if the PC is broken, but I don't think that's the case, because the DAC didn't work on the other computer either.


----------



## notoriousmatty

So I just bought one of these from wsz on ebay. I needed a DAC with optical as well as usb.  Going to add a Valhalla to the mix soon for my 880s.  Hope I made a good choice!


----------



## sebmtl1

i dont mean to hijack, but im new to this dac/amp thingy. Im willing to buy a new headset (hd650) but i am very confused what to do next. I have a macbook pro and im confused weither i have to get a DAC or an amp or something that can do both. Is the ZERO a dac and an amp at the same time, meaning that i only have to buy one piece instead of 2 (dac + amp)? Also, whats the better thing to do, get a zero or get a udac2 +little dot mk or get a headroom micro amp?? Sorry but i am SO confused lol!


----------



## DemonicLemming

DAC stands for "digital to analog converter" and that's what it does, by converting an optical/coaxial/USB input to an analog signal output to the amplifier.  By running USB, optical, or coax into a DAC, you bypass any internal amplification or the like (as my understanding of it is) from your computer's sound card; it's basically nothing but a raw signal output into the DAC.  Conversely, if you ran a 1/8" to RCA converter from a headphone jack to a discrete amp, you'd be sending the internally-amplified signal out to the amplifier, instead of a raw signal; this is typically a bad thing.
   
  The Zero can act as a stand-alone DAC for an amp daisy-chained to it, or it can function as a DAC and an amp.  For the price, it's not a bad all-in-one combo, but I couldn't comment on it against the Headroom or uDAC2, since I haven't heard either of those.  I'm not sure what type of outputs a Macbook has, but you wouldn't be ill-served to buy a DAC/amp combo like the Zero, or a discrete DAC and amplifier combo, like the uDAC and the Little Dot, for the reasons given above.
   
  tl;dr version (was a bit verbose above): a DAC converts a digital output signal from a computer into an analog signal that an amplifier can use.
  Quote: 





sebmtl1 said:


> i dont mean to hijack, but im new to this dac/amp thingy. Im willing to buy a new headset (hd650) but i am very confused what to do next. I have a macbook pro and im confused weither i have to get a DAC or an amp or something that can do both. Is the ZERO a dac and an amp at the same time, meaning that i only have to buy one piece instead of 2 (dac + amp)? Also, whats the better thing to do, get a zero or get a udac2 +little dot mk or get a headroom micro amp?? Sorry but i am SO confused lol!


----------



## sebmtl1

Thanks man thats really appreciated. Can i ask you what dac and amp or dac/amp combo would really be my best buy for a 400$ budget? I have a 2011 macbook pro and senns hd650


----------



## DemonicLemming

Tough question...do you have any preference for a tube vs solid state amp?
  
  Quote: 





sebmtl1 said:


> Thanks man thats really appreciated. Can i ask you what dac and amp or dac/amp combo would really be my best buy for a 400$ budget? I have a 2011 macbook pro and senns hd650


----------



## sebmtl1

to be honest, it will be my first amp, so no no preferences, lemme know what you think


----------



## DemonicLemming

The Zero seems to be a safe bet...but, a personal favorite of mine are the Travagans amps.  I have a White and love it (especially the size, it makes a great work desk setup).  May be something to look into.  Skylab's review is a bit old now, but he quite liked them for the price point.
   
  Quote: 





sebmtl1 said:


> to be honest, it will be my first amp, so no no preferences, lemme know what you think


----------



## sebmtl1

ok thanks man peace


----------



## throzen0303

Should I get this ZERO amp or pay $50 more for the XS DAC 01A ?


----------



## Phos

Does anyone know how this compares to the Audio GD Sparrow?  It also seems as though Audio gd is selling what I assume to be pre orders of the NFB-12 at a price of 200 which I also assume to be a real bargain.  I'm not sure 100% considering that the Audio gd site isn't the best translated site around.


----------



## notoriousmatty

Just got this thing.  Burned it in for about 100 hours.  It was very harsh at first, almost shrill. Bass?  Forget about it.  It warmed up a bit throughout the break in.  I actually prefer my 300 dollar netbooks headphone input with stock earbuds over this Zero.  I have beyer 880s 250ohm.  The bass is fuller and hits harder and the highs arent harsh on the laptop.  I know that beyers are best served with a tube and maybe ill look into that.  The zero is my first piece of head fi equipment ive owned and im highly dissapointed.


----------



## nocooler

I'm considering the zero for my 1st full sized amp. I currently use my total bithead which is good - but I think I'd like more inputs.
   
  I typically listen to my grado sr60's or 225i's - and my audio technica m50's. For tunes I listen to rock, alternative, metal, but lately I've been on the mellow kick - stuff like Jack Johnson.
   
  In the future - I see some higher end grado's, maybe a some other various flavors of phones.
   
  Would this amp be a good fit for me? I know all my existing head phones are easy to drive and probably won't see much of an improvement over the bithead, as it does a good job of bringing the grado's to life.


----------



## ripleydog

Hi sebMTL1- I have a Macbook pro as my source. I just ordered a Little Dot MkIII and a Beresford 7520 DAC so I can bypass the soundcard in my Mac for better sound. I listen to speakers as well, so I got  the LD MkIII because I can use it as a tube preamp for my stereo as well- a cost effective way to learn about tube sound, I hope! I can let you know how it goes if you wish. Good luck! I also hope to try using the Beresford as a CD decoder in the future as well.


----------



## ripleydog

Quote: 





sebmtl1 said:


> i dont mean to hijack, but im new to this dac/amp thingy. Im willing to buy a new headset (hd650) but i am very confused what to do next. I have a macbook pro and im confused weither i have to get a DAC or an amp or something that can do both. Is the ZERO a dac and an amp at the same time, meaning that i only have to buy one piece instead of 2 (dac + amp)? Also, whats the better thing to do, get a zero or get a udac2 +little dot mk or get a headroom micro amp?? Sorry but i am SO confused lol!


 
   Also new- please see my post of 5-7-2011. Thanks! I forgot to click on "reply to message".


----------



## jbl772

can someone give me a link to where i can buy an authentic one?? 
   
   
  i found 2, but if you know a better place feel free to tell me 

   

  1. http://www.audiophilechina.com/cp-show.asp?C_id=50&S_id2=37&s_id=40

  2. http://www.ebay.com/itm/09-NEW-VERSION-ZERO-24-192KHZ-DAC-HEAD-AMP-USB-OPA2604-/110606551605?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19c0aa0a35#ht_10050wt_698


----------



## Keulz

Hello everyone.
   
  I currently have a HD 598 and i would like to know i it's a good idea to buy the zero dac to go with.
   
  It would be for music (classical, rock, a bit of everything) and games.
   
  Thx in advance.


----------



## onelivewire

I just grabbed one of these from another member on the forum, primarily for use with a pair of loudspeakers and subs. Like ripleydog, I usually use a Macbook pro as my source, and my cd player's optical if not. There are a couple of things I'd like to note just in case there's anyone out there wondering how this will run on a 2.1 stereo setup, rather than just on phones.
   
  Firstly, I am quite impressed with the detail that this DAC achieves across the low-band. Bass lines sound much clearer and crisper than with a cheaper ipod/cd-p/computer preamp, which really brings an instantaneous, headphone-sounding immediacy to music. It's as if the kick drum is sitting 5 feet in front of me, and you can tell if it is tuned well or not! 
   
  I'd also say that the DAC does seem to have a very level frequency response, as the british loudspeakers in combination with the luxman serve to bring out alot of mid-highs, as would be expected. This wasn't always the case when using cheaper preamps. For me, this means I need to use the loudness filter on the lux to even the playing field, obviously but the DAC is not to blame, unless for its transparency. 
   
  The detail across the entire spectrum is quite enjoyable, and every album I listen to I am finding new sounds here and there - the layers are just so much easier to pull apart. Regular lossless cd rips have taken on a larger sound stage, and old vinyl rips of Pink Floyd seems to stretch even wider and deeper.
   
  Headphones are obviously a world of difference from a cheap preamp, but I don't do enough phone listening to comment heavily on that. 
  I should also note that I'm running with the 627 opamps
   
  On the whole, I'm quite pleased with the Zero, and interested to hear back from anyone else - especially those running the zero through subwoofers


----------



## VirtualOne

I've just bought the 09 version with USB and 627.

 I'm using Sennheiser 555, and I hear hiss at all times (save when it gets drowned by the music). To ensure I get no suggestions to adjust my volume settings in Windows and such, I simply disconnected the USB cable, so the amp has no input. The hiss is still there, and gets louder as I turn up the volume knob. So it seems to be generated by the amp. The hiss is not very loud, but even with the volume at zero I don't have to struggle to hear it. I'm on 230V, if it matters.

 Since this was supposed to be an upgrade, I'm feeling a bit down. I mean, I know low quality amplifiers have noisy backgrounds, but from what I read about Zero I had hoped I'll get a decently silent background. I get no hiss with 555 connected directly to Soundblaster X-Fi. I don't know that much about audio, except that maybe higher impendance headphones might help (555 is 50 ohm). Or not, since I would have to turn up the volume and hiss also increases then?

 Is this hiss normal or did I just get unlucky with my sample?
 Thanks.


----------



## AmarokCZ

It is quite long time since i completely upgraded my ZERO (upgrade included replacement of headphone amplifier with another one with silent background), but I don't remember me complaining about background noise (with AKG K240).
  I would say that this is not normal (original headphone amplifier is quite nousy, but nothing horrible), but it depends on how loud are you listening (with K240 a was listening with potentiometer at 8 to 9 o'clock).
  You can try LINE OUT with another amplifier to chceck if headphone amplifier is really the problem.


----------



## VirtualOne

I also have the volume quite low, definitely lower than 9 o'clock. Probably around 8 (can't look right now since I'm not at home). I don't have other amplifiers yet - this is my first one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Btw, I'm using USB because on S/PDIF Zero would loudly click (from within its housing, not in the headphones) every time the signal started / stopped. Even worse, after a couple more seconds I would always get a relatively loud pop in headphones, so it was unnerving, every time a song ended to wait for the dreaded pop. The pop was probably caused by the mobo (with built-in Realtek), not Zero.

 I tried to connect Zero to other power outlets, guessing it might change the noise, but to no avail. So it's again on my UPS-protected chain.

 Anyway, Zero sounds nice otherwise, its just this "shhhhhhhhhhh"... even when the music drowns it, of course it's still there, reducing the total clarity...

 One other thing bothers me: when turning Zero on/off the headphones receive a loud pop as well. Hopefully it isn't detrimental to the headphones?

 I'm new around here, what would be the best way to ask for recommendations on affordable (sub $500 if possible) dac+amp with a neutral sound and as-quiet-as-possible background? Or at least amp, I can have Zero as a DAC, although it will be a pain to switch two devices all the time.


----------



## AmarokCZ

Click (relay inside ZERO) when using S/PDIF is not problem of ZERO and it is caused by S/PDIF source. Some "not good" sources turns the S/PDIF output off for a while even between tracks (when changing track with optical S/PDIF you can see that red light disappers for a while).
   
  Don't take this as recommendation, but only as my experience: I upgraded few ZEROs to version "amarok", all of them were OK when in original state.
  After this upgrades the sound of DAC changed to more neutral, less harsh highs, better soundstage and better defined basses. New AMP section can't be compared to the old one - way less distortion, better channel separation and noise below noise of DAC section (new AMP is silent with K240 even at full volume).
  One owner of uprgraded ZERO told me that it is superior to Icon HDP, Fubar IV or Yulong DAH1. Another owner compared it to HS-DAC (DIY DAC comparable to H/K HD990).
   
  Do if you are able to modify it, try it!


----------



## VirtualOne

Well, you certanly got me interested, but... the most electronics I can handle is putting computers together (which is about as simple as it gets 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). I took a look at your website, and this mod is way out of my league.

 You know, I never understood one thing... why can't some company like TianYun take good advice like this and improve the device in several mayor revisions. And in the end, get a very cost-efficient product with performance that rivals the best of them.

 Then again, 3TB harddrives are also sold at 2x the price of 2TB harddrives, even though the components hardly cost more


----------



## maar

Hi guys!
   
  it will be just short. I decided to buy DAC. I flipped through some reviews and ended here in this thread (sorry I didn't scan all the 616 pages...). I hate how Zero looks but I will leave the aesthetics behind and buy it
   
  Can You please tell me if this 09 edition http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-VERSION-ZERO-24-192KHZ-DAC-HEAD-AMP-USB-OPA2604-/160614705252?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item256561e864#shId is the best piece I can buy now in the year 2012? I am not very sure about the OPA2604 chip, should I rather take this one with 627? http://www.ebay.com/itm/09-NEW-EDITION-ZERO-24-192KHz-DAC-HEAD-AMP-OPA627-NEW-/120644872211?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c16fea813 ... AFAIK almost everybody switches the chips and I will do it if necessary. So is this box good to start with and then improve it somehow?
   
  Also I noticed something about fake OPA627 chips here in forum ... Someone has an experience with it with Zero? 
   
  Thank You very much,
   
  o.
   
  p.s. From PC optical to "DAC" RCA to Pioneer Amp A-757 to Alessandro MS1 ...
  p.p.s. Is it really better than Fubar IV Plus?


----------



## AmarokCZ

ZERO 09 with USB and OPA627 is the best choice under 300$ (or maybe 500$) when properly modded.
  Original ZERO is surely better than fubar.
   
  My experience with OPA627 in ZERO is very good - resistance between pin1 a pin5 was 55k like in original, offset was little lower than typical from datasheet ... so I can say, that it is original OPA627 ... or very good fake.


----------



## maar

Thanx for reply. Just PM-ed you.


----------



## maar

Hi guys,
   
  my Zero is safe and sound sitting on my desk and I am in the process of the sound testing. The first impression is it needs to be burned-in (for those who believe something like this actually exists 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) but I am not in no way disappointed with it. Actually it plays very nice and I am so far quite happy about even the headphone input which can be improved somehow which I will definitely do later with the help of one member here.
   
  Just now I would like to ask a very "dumb" question. Now I have an on-board (Gigabyte) sound card in my computer which is connected to Zero with an optical cable. I use Foobar2000 player along with Asio4All driver with "Always resample 44.1kHz <-> 48kHz" enabled. DO I IMPROVE the sound output (the sound which gets from PC to Zero) when buying non-integrated sound card (for example ASUS Xonar DG) OR is it pointless and the digital sound is converted in Zero independently on what the source is (I mostly play FLACs and the source i mean Sample Rate and Resolution...). Say it another way... is it worthwhile to invest to a sound card when I use optical out and NEVER NOTHING else?
   
  I wanna add that I use Zero as a Headphone amp and also as a DAC to my Amplifier (direct out via RCA).
   
  Thank You very much.


----------



## Wingzero

Gonna be pairing one of these with some Denon AH D7000. 


Anything I need to know orr be aware of ?


----------



## AmarokCZ

ZERO headphone amplifier has "too much gain" plus D7000 are quite sensitive, so it will be almost impossible to set low volume without digital volume control.
  This might help: http://www.head-fi.org/t/575840/you-can-add-resistors-to-lower-the-volume-of-a-zero-dac-amp


----------



## VirtualOne

Quote: 





virtualone said:


> Btw, I'm using USB because on S/PDIF Zero would loudly click (from within its housing, not in the headphones) every time the signal started / stopped. Even worse, after a couple more seconds I would always get a relatively loud pop in headphones, so it was unnerving, every time a song ended to wait for the dreaded pop. The pop was probably caused by the mobo (with built-in Realtek), not Zero.


 
   
  At first I thought it must be the lousy motherboard integrated soundcard. Now, after two other DAC/AMP combinations found themselves on my table, I can confirm there is absolutely no pop whatsoever with them connected to the same source. The problem is ZERO.
   
  Optical in is therefore useless on mine. Cannot stand that pop. It could be a bad sample? Can someone else please check, if you connect your (unmodified?) version 09 ZERO with toslink, is there any pop in your headphones a couple of seconds after the song ends?
   
  Thanks!


----------



## AmarokCZ

Is there a pop in LINE OUT too? Have you tried another S/PDIF source (CD player, etc)?


----------



## VirtualOne

Didn't try line out, I'll look around if I have something. But I won't use it in either case. I don't think I have any other S/PDIF devices. Will check with relatives - if someone has, I could at least try their computer cause they most likely have S/PDIF. Another computer is also the best test, as that's the source of my choice.
   
  I assume your Zero never had this pop?


----------



## VirtualOne

I've tried it with another computer. The pop is still there.


----------



## AmarokCZ

Mine ZERO never had this pop. But I heard about someone with this issue and I think he didn't solve this issue.


----------



## Butcherowski

I just received a ZERO DAC. Using Grado SR-80 I can hear a hiss when the amp is supposed to be silent. It's noticeable at very low volumes, right from the start and just turning the pot slightly. Even more noticeable at 9 o'clock, and there is a loud hissing when pot is at 12 o'clock.
   
  As I understand, this is due to Grados low impedance.
   
  Is there a simple way to modify the headphone amp for low impedance headphones?
 Or should I try to sell the Zero and look for something else? TY!


----------



## AmarokCZ

Press "Preamp" button (LED under "phone" goes off) - is hiss still there?


----------



## Butcherowski

Yes. A little less, but yes the hiss is still here.


----------



## AmarokCZ

The thing is that this tiny difference is DAC noise (which is quite low). But bigger part of noise is caused by head-amp itself.
   
  Just chcecked my old measurement and noise at 9 o'clock is ~70uVp (with SR80 it makes ~32dB SPL) and at 12 o'clock it is ~450uVp (with SR80 it makes ~46dB SPL which is very audible).
   
  You can try some low noise OA, but I don't think it will be very helpful.
  The ultimate solution is changing whole amp. I'am changing old amps for amps of my design (see signature) and at 12 o'clock the noise is only 12uVp (with SR80 it would be ~15dB SPL)


----------



## Butcherowski

Great, tnx for helping me out!
   
  Any recommendations for low noise OAs?
   
  Anyway, I'm gonna send you a PM.


----------



## AmarokCZ

For examlpe NE5532 (generic low noise OA) and LME49720 (high performance and also low noise).


----------



## eimis

People... THIS is a MUCH better value.


----------



## robio d

Hi Guys,
   
  I have a brand new Zero 09 with USB with approx 40 to 50 hours use.
   
  been trawling through this post, lots of excellent stuff.  But can someone please help me select a reseller for a set of LT1364 & a set of LME49720's?  Lots for sale on ebay, but my problems are
   
  1. Picking ones that are genuine
  2. picking the right options!  Most have 3 different lots of suffixes to choose from and I am a bit clueless.
   
  Sorry if the answers are on here somewhere, buy over 600 pages are a lot to get through.
   
  I have been very impressed with the sound straight from the box, and I'm running it through a pretty decent rig - perreuax power amp, Polk RTA-15TL's...  I mainly use the DAC section through my amp/power amp combo, but with a wee child on the way I might find a bit more use for the headphone section.
   
  The main reason for changing the headphone OP-Amp is that out of the box the output was clean through my AKG K240's (not the best HP I know - ex my DJ rig), now I am hearing a definite hiss and distortion on the higher frequencies and it is very distracting.  This hiss is only present when the input source is being played.  With no music the HP/Preamp out is clean even when increasing the volume.  I have tried with both USB and coax input from different sources - laptop, PC, CD etc and the hiss does not change.  I have also tried with different headphones - same hiss.  
   
  The direct analog output is fine - no hiss.  If the headphone or preamp output is used there is hiss.
   
  As this sound wasn't present to begin with I am seeing about return, or if the supplier will provide a replacement Headphone amp PCB.  If I cannot get a good return option that doesn't cost the earth I was thinking swapping out the headphone OP_amps might help, hence the question on what style.  
   
  Any idea if this might work?  Anything else I can check?  There is nothing looking burnt or odd on the PCB and I can find not loose bits of solder viewing from above.  Remember I am trying to keep this pristine in case of return, if return isn't an option I have no problems ripping into it!
   
  many thanks
   
  Rob.


----------



## AmarokCZ

I would rather buy those OA from Mouser, Farnel,... than eBay.
  That hiss/distortion is on left, right or both channels?


----------



## robio d

Hi,  thanks for the reply.  Looks like Farnel has a local representative in NZ and I can see good pics of the options, thanks!
   
  This hiss is both channels...In fact describing the noise it would be closer to the distorted higher frequencies I mentioned, everything at the top seems to be distorted and "hissy"
   
  I was planning on changing out the AMP OPAmps anyway for sound quality and fun, but your help is trying to diagnose is appreciated.  Following the same route with the DAC Opamp also, and have an OPA_moon on it's way 
   
  ta
   
  Rob.


----------



## vampirehunterd

So...I haven't read through all 600+ pages of this post but I have purchased a used Zero from another head-fi member and I am more than happy with it.  I have a small selection of op-amps and I have been playing around with the Audio-GD Earth (came with it as part of the sale) in main slot and playing with various options in the headphone amp slots.  It came with LT1364s in the headamp section and I really like that sound paired with the Earth or 627 in the main slot.  I had an extra 627 on an adapter so I plugged the 627s in both headamp slots and I am really digging the sound.  Anyone else try this combo with success?
   
  Most of my gear is a little bright so the Audio-gd Earth/627 combo seems to be very easy on the ears while still imparting plenty of detail/instrument separation.


----------



## Lourdin

Greetings to you all.
   
I have only one question and didn't find the answer for it in this thread.
   
I consider buying the new 2012 edition Zero dac with OPA637U. I have AKG K550, which are low impedance.
   
So my question is, would that be a good buy? Considering the problem with a hiss mentioned earlier?
   
  Just to mention, I am on a very tight budget.
   
Regards.


----------



## AmarokCZ

AKG K550 are less sensitive than Grado SR80 (mentioned by Butherowski few posts before), so the hiss problem should be smaller.


----------



## bigme

Any one find that the Zero Amp is too powerful?

 I'm using a zero dac/amp connected through optical to PC, powering hd650s. To be able listen to music comfortably, I need to play music at 1% on winamp, and volume control at the 1oclock knob. I know for a fact that my HD650s are not easy to power because i tried powering them on my portable rig, and I needed to nearly max out my stepdance2 to be able power the 650s to a 'reasonably' loud level.
   
  Any ways on reducing the volume that doesn't involve the PC would be greatful! 
   
  bigme


----------



## AmarokCZ

AMP isn't so powerful. Real problem is that this AMP has crazy high gain.
  Chceck this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/575840/you-can-add-resistors-to-lower-the-volume-of-a-zero-dac-amp


----------



## bigme

unfortunately i don't have a solder at home, so none of these solutions actually work 
  Is there like a cable or something that has an 'inbuilt' resistance to simplify things?


----------



## AmarokCZ

I think that without soldering there isn't a reasonable solution. Try asking a friend or someone else, it's worth it!
  You could use impedance adaptor, but the damping will be very poor then.


----------



## bigme

is there nothing I can do to the circuitry of the board, i.e. add a resistance cable on the cable that connects the dac to the amp? all of my friends are looking at my going 'What, how can your amp be too powerful for a 650' So i guess they won't be of much help 
   
  looks like my options are running out D:


----------



## AmarokCZ

I'm courious why your friends are so surprised ... HD650 are very sesnsitive.
  You're suggesting adding resistance cable ... you would still need to do some soldering to solder the cable to somwhere or do you?


----------



## bigme

maybe that's because they don't have one lol.
   
  resistance cables.. I don't know. Just a random thought, thinking of something like an 'interconnect' but with a resistor/resistance in the cable.
   
  how about reducing the gain of the amp? is it possible?


----------



## AmarokCZ

Reducing the gain is exactly what I reffered you to few post later!
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/575840/you-can-add-resistors-to-lower-the-volume-of-a-zero-dac-amp (first post on second page)


----------



## tbend

Bought an Zero 09 with usb for about a moth ago..
   
   
  I got pop sounds after some time (10 hours), headset was then Sennheiser Hd 497. ( OPA 627 dual )
   
  Now i bought genuine LT1361, ( single). Plugged it in, and the sound was great for about 1 hour, and now i got popping sounds all time listening to music.. Now my headset is upgraded to Bowers & Wilkins P5.
   
   
  I dont know what to to with this.. I have tried optical as source too, but it is just the same popping sounds.
   
   
  Does someone know? :/


----------



## AmarokCZ

Did you tried LINE OUT (unregulated) to ensure if the problem is not headphone amplifier?


----------



## tbend

I tred it now. YES, the same krackle / pop sounds is coming trough LINE OUT.


----------



## AmarokCZ

It seems that something is heating more than is acceptable, if you're lucky you could locate it...


----------



## WhoAmI7

Same problem with click/pops on a new computer:
   
  OS Windows 7 64-bit -> MB Asus P8Z77-V (Realtek ALC892) -> SPDIF (coaxial or optic - no difference) -> Zero DAC
   
*No* problems with click/pops on a *old* computer:
   
  OS Windows XP 32-bit -> MB Asus A8N-Sli (PCI) -> M-audio Revolution 5.1 -> SPDIF (coaxial) -> Zero DAC
   
*No* problems with click/pops on a *new* computer:
   
  OS Windows 7 64-bit -> MB Asus P8Z77-V (Realtek ALC892) -> SPDIF (coaxial or optic - no difference) -> Edifier R2700
   
  I'll try *M-audio Revolution 5.1 -> Zero DAC* with a *new* computer in the near future. I hope we find out who clicks / pops - Windows 7 or Realtek or Zero


----------



## WhoAmI7

*After removing Realtek HDA driver clicks / pops disappeared!*
  Microsoft Windows 7 default HDA driver only supports 44100/16 and 48000/16


----------



## tbend

Quote: 





amarokcz said:


> It seems that something is heating more than is acceptable, if you're lucky you could locate it...


 
   
  Hi..
   
  So you mean that something is too hot to make clear sound?
   
  what should i look after in the amp ? I hate that its not working popertly 
   
  I have tried it with a lot of sources, cd players, ps3, computers, with different opa amps, but it is the same on every source :-/ Different usb cables and different toslink cables, even tried it in a other house.
   
  So i bought a new Dual BB627, it was quiet for about 6hours with that Amps (happy then ), but now it popping almost all the time. It's sometimes quiet the first 10 minuets after it's turned on. But most often it crackle / popping just after turn on.
   
  What is the problem?


----------



## AmarokCZ

It was just a wild guess...
  From what I can tell it seems that head-amp is OK, and reciever is also OK. Problem could be DAC itself or buffer/filter behind DAC.


----------



## tbend

Quote: 





amarokcz said:


> It was just a wild guess...
> From what I can tell it seems that head-amp is OK, and reciever is also OK. Problem could be DAC itself or buffer/filter behind DAC.


 
  Yes. It seems ok for me too. It sounds like digital noise, the pop sounds..
   
  I see pepole who modify their Zero, they mount bigger heat exchangers on the black 3 legs "things" in the dac 
   
  Amarok Example:

   
   
   
  Should i do it?


----------



## AmarokCZ

Try checking temperature of heatsinks with your hand, of you can withstand the temperature it's OK. The most hottest should be 2 heatsinks near socket with dual BB627 in it.


----------



## tbend

Okey. Thank you 
   
  I will check it out. If they are too hot, is it possible that they make/generate pop sounds?
  Quote: 





amarokcz said:


> Try checking temperature of heatsinks with your hand, of you can withstand the temperature it's OK. The most hottest should be 2 heatsinks near socket with dual BB627 in it.


----------



## tbend

Quote: 





tbend said:


> Okey. Thank you
> 
> I will check it out. If they are too hot, is it possible that they make/generate pop sounds?


 
  I have tested the dac further. The heatsinks is not very hot, no problem to touch every component in the dac while it's in use.
  The BB627 is also getting a little warm, but no problem to touch it either.
   
   
  Have checked the underside of the mainboard for solder points, but eveything looks ok.
   
  Dont know what to do 
   
  The popsounds is coming when the music og sound is nearly quiet, when its just ambient sounds its worst.
  And its exactly the same from optical, coax and usb.


----------



## airkitoy

anyone found this single to dual opamp converter to be worked on Zero dac?I saw one on ebay listing to be much cheaper than dual to mono adapter.I rather going to buy this one since they are much cheaper than dual to mono adapter which is around $40.
   
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/2-X-GENUINE-BURR-BROWN-OPA627-SINGLE-DUAL-OPAMP-CONVERTER-/251157632021#ht_1758wt_1163


----------



## sleek2000

Hi Everybody,
   
   
  I've got a Grado SR125, I use them with my ESI Julia sound card and I want to get a better sound quality by connecting a DAC (for example ZERO 24 BIT) to the Julia sound card. I read the post above about the problems with the hiss. I just wonder if is it possible to fix by using an external amp for instance a clone of Grado RA-1 ?  http://www.ebay.com/itm/18V-Cmoy-Ra1-JRC4556-Headphone-Amplifier-Amp-RECHARGEABLE-PP-Compatible-W-Grado-/170952843574?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27cd956136     
   
  Thanks!


----------



## tbend

Hi. Does someone have Schematics for the Zero Dac ? (With USB)
   
  tor_steve@hotmail.com
   
  Thnx


----------



## AmarokCZ

*sleek2000*: if everything is OK (=nothing is defective/damaged) than the hiss is only problem of headphone amplifier and only with sensitive headphones (IEMs, Grados,...). You can either use external headphone amplifier or change the old AMP for a new one (for example see my signature).
*tbend*: do you need whole or partial schematic?


----------



## tbend

HI. 
   
  I neeed scematics for the mainboard, do not need schematics for the headphoneamp 
   Quote:


amarokcz said:


> *tbend*: do you need whole or partial schematic?


----------



## K0L3N

I've been using my zero amp for several years now, both with my hd595 headphones and my cambridge audio 640a v2 to my vifa premium 11 speakers.
  I have read some good things about the amp in the 640a v2, and I was wondering whether anyone knows which one would be better, the zero headphone amp or the 640a v2 amp?


----------



## tarsonis

The zero sounds really interesting. Was reading the first ~100pages and some things made me curious so I searched the thread, but seems nobody have a answer what the actual output impedance is of the headphone output. Sure its only important for cans below 100ohm, but for me its some crucial thing to know because I need a amp for mixing/mastering and need to be sure the amp matches my cans (50ohms). Someone knows the actual output impedance?
   
  What would be the best opamp combi for a uncolored und neutral playback scenario?


----------



## AmarokCZ

I' not surprised you didn't find it, because there isn't really much in this thread (considering the 619 pages).
   
  Output impedance of headphone amp (including impedance of connector) is very low: ~0.5ohm (there is 0.3ohm resistor in series).
   
  There isn't any combination of opamps which makes it neutral, because DAC is a bit veiled and headphone amp is quite midrangy.
  You can "save" DAC with some bright OA (AD797 could be suitable).


----------



## tarsonis

Ok, seems not like a good solution for me then. But regarding the impedance. When its that low, why so many here got problems with low impedance headphones? I'm curious. What did you mean with I could save the dac with some OA. The Opamps ?


----------



## AmarokCZ

Problem with low-Z headphones is because headphone amp has too much gain and it's hard (more like impossible) to set volume that's not too loud but still with good channel balance. Second problem could be caused by head-amp noise, but it's problem only with very sensitive headphones (most IEMs).
  The DAC is little dark, so you could save it with brighter operational amplifier.


----------



## opampswitcher

I think the headphone amp section in this is worth the money in itself, One criticism is the DAC output has a very unclean noise profile (like sizzling eggs) this is very low in level and virtually inaudible at normal listening levels but I would prefer if it was not there. You can only hear it if the you amp/speakers are cranked. The other issue is the case is not earthed which is pretty bad from a safety perspective IMO. I earthed mine myself as the first job out of the box. There is no excuse for this whatsoever and the manufacturer must not do it because of money saving. I recommend anyne buying one check the earthing arrangement and if you cannot do it yourself get an electrician to do it, it is probably a 20 min job for a sparky.
   
  The headphone output quality is divine.
   
  I am not aware of anything that is this great at this price.


----------



## AmarokCZ

Unclean noise profile isn't really problem of DAC but the S/PDIF reciever (for some reason it gets much worse when using stock USB input).
  The output is super clean when the DAC is fed directly by I2S.
   
  But I'm also not aware of anything this great at such price (especially after some improvements) so there's really nothing to complaint.


----------



## opampswitcher

Does anyone have reason to believe that any of the parts in the DAC are fake? like JRC4558 with 627 etched on them and fake Elna/Silmic caps or are they reputable to be genuine parts?
   
  My standard shipped OPA2134 * (correction 2604) one sounded ok out of the box but no where near as good as when I popped the 4562's in the headphone board.


----------



## opampswitcher

Amarok you are 100pct correct using SP/DIF coax the HP amp is absolutely quiet and clean. This is a very serious piece of equipment for the money.
   
  I correct the original chip was a 2604.
   
  One possibility is if the original chips are not genuine parts putting a known genuine part in really takes the DAC/HP amp to a completely new level of quality.


----------



## AmarokCZ

OPA627 seems to be genuine in mine ZERO: offset voltage is in tolerance and resistance between  pin1 and pin5 is 55kOhm. So it's either genuine or very good counterfeit (unlikely).
  Opamp in HP amp is cheap universal opamp (NJM082), so there's space for improvements.


----------



## Nukeshock

nice , any upgrade you guys recomend for my zero dac ? 
  i have it paired to my Shure SRH-1840 and i am loving it so far. 
  But when i heard my SRH-1840 with balanced cables and the yamamoto amp at Jaben Singapore...
  it feels like its got alot more to improve , and i heard certain opa's can give the zero dac a tube sound !,
  i really want "DETAIL !!!"


----------



## AmarokCZ

Do you want tube or detail??
  If tube, just switch OPA. If detail, then throw away the head-amp, build new one a upgrade DAC (se my signature) ... it's real step forward towards detail and neutrality.


----------



## Nukeshock

was looking for more detail and transparancy 
  so how do i build the head-amp ? 
  but not sure i have the skill to dwell into soldering the board.if i can just swap the opamps which is the best for clarity ( without increasing the treble i have enough , or to make it more natural/transparent sounding )


----------



## AmarokCZ

If you're using stock opamps in head-amp (NJM082) try swapping them for something better (see first page), but it's quite minor change compared to new head-amp.


----------



## Nukeshock

OK , i dont really follow text instructions well do you know off any video tht can guide me visually ? And thanks !!!


----------



## NRGman

I'm thinking of getting one of theses because the Musiland us2 doesn't quite power the Sure SRH-940, will i have any problems with the 42 Ohms impedance of the headphones? hiss?
   
  thanks for your time


----------



## AmarokCZ

Hiss may not be the only problem, see this topic: http://www.head-fi.org/t/575840/you-can-add-resistors-to-lower-the-volume-of-a-zero-dac-amp


----------



## John Grady

nevermind.


----------



## bob808

Hello everyone. My first post on this forum. 
  I am looking for a DAC at about 100-200$ max and I read some on the Zero DAC. I do own a set of low level Sony headphones and they work for my needs but I am looking for a DAC for my main system. Right now I have a modded ta2020 amp that sounds superb on my Fostex FE206E (haven't manage to put the enclosures together but all it's needed is the time to glue them).
  Also I have a sherwood s-5000 tube amp in restoration process that I might finish as a winter project. Sound source is my iMac to a M-Audio FastTrack Pro soundcard. I'm looking to replace the DAC from my system and don't have much to spend. Zero seems to fit the bill and I sure do love to mod  In fact I couldn't be completely satisfied with a piece of audio gear without getting my hands dirty.
  So I'd like to know how would this fit in place of my M-Audio DAC. Is it worth it? Should I wait, gather more money and spend it on something else? Another option (a bit over the $ limit) would be an es9018 dac made by someone named Weiliang and is about 230$ without the transformer (absolutely no affiliation with the seller, in fact I don't really like the fact that there's no schematic for his products so modding should be more complicated, IF I might go that route). Also there's no info on that DAC as it's barely been out.
  Anyway I'd love some input regarding the Zero DAC vs my M-Audio one. This DAC is very tempting as there's so much info on it. Haven't had the time to read all 600 pages but I've scanned this and some other threads on this subject and seems tempting. Also, how does it compare to the newer ones out there? Seems like this unit has been on the market for some time now and technology moves fast these days. Of course it's been good a few years ago, it's also good now but for the same price I'd do a bit of research first. Cheapest version I found for the Zero on ebay is 156$ and I'll replace the op-amp and so on. What would you spend your money on considering all the DAC out there for max 200-220$ that can (should!) be modded? Also I like something cased as I don't want to spend time on drilling and more money on case+shipping


----------



## AmarokCZ

In my experience there's not much that can beat modded ZERO in the ~500$ price range. Old headamp and USB is nothing special, but DAC is great.
  Great DAC is also HRT Music Streamer II (no modding potential here), or a heavily modded AK4396 DAC - just search eBay for "24BIT 192KHZ CS8416 + AK4396 + NE5532P" (no enclosure and PSU for this one).
  So I think that ZERO is best option for complete DAC when you want to do some modding. 
   
  About the older versions: two weeks ago I modded the original (not 09 version) and before modding it sounded much worse than the unmodded 09 version.


----------



## bob808

Another reason for considering other options than the Zero is that I will never use the headamp. I'd like a zero without one, and cheaper 
  The 24BIT 192KHZ CS8416 + AK4396 + NE5532P  looks nice and I found some info on it but I'd like to use USB as an option. I could use the M-Audio spdif out and that would be 24/96.


----------



## bob808

Here's another DAC that is based on one that you recommended, in fact I think it is the same one with a case and transformer:
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Finished-2496-AK4396-CS8416-DAC-With-Transformer-case-/110712416420?_rdc=1&ru=http://shop.ebay.com:80/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=110712416420&_sacat=See-All-Categories&_fvi=1
   
  What would be your personal opinion on these two DACs? Both cased with transformers, zero has the headamp that I really don't need and is a bit more expensive, ak4396 newer and less expensive. (of course, I will mod any. I will in fact get the pcb with soldered ICs if I can to reduce cost)
  I have no affiliation with the seller on ebay and I don't think that I'll be buying from him anything, it was just an example for price and case/transformer.


----------



## AmarokCZ

Yeah, it's the same.
  ZERO can be modded to 24/96 USB with I2S: TE7022 module. This module is very good, requires little modding and is great combination with AK DAC (when I2S output used).
  ZERO has one advantage: it can be used as preamplifier. If you don't need it than AK will be better for you.
   
  I heard my ZERO and AK DAC (DIY, but made by friend of Fikus, so it's basically Lampizator DAC) at one moment and both is detailed, neutral. To my ears it was the same, but guy who made the AK DAC told me that ZERO is little worse than his DAC.


----------



## bob808

Well...I guess I'll be needing line level anyway. I guess that'll be an excuse to go for a preamp as well  I'll post back if I get the Zero, must go do some more research than pull the trigger on one them.
  Thank you for your help


----------



## WaiseCoo

So, I bought the OPA637 Zero Dac couple months ago. I would have opted for the cheaper versions, becouse I was gonna upgrade the op-amps anyway. But since the OPA637 was the only one that the Finnish importer had, I bought it.
   
  My initial toughts weren't that great. Before the Zero Dac I had an Asus Xonar STX and i use HD650's as my headphones. So Like I said my initial toughts weren't that great. The Zero didn't sound bad, just felt like it had no soul. There was just music, it didn't get my foot tapping.
   
  I was connected via USB so i tought i'd upgrade the USB-cable for a better one. The inculded one looks like it's from the 80's anyway. So I did some research and found out that the *Lindy Prerium Gold cable* was pretty much the best you can get under 50euros. I wanted to get the 0.5m one, it was pretty hard to find one, but i managed to order one from a small German store. The cable improved the sound quite a bit and i would say that it was now enjoyable.
   
  After the cable upgrade i red that the stock op-amps were probably fake ones. So again i did some research and founded this topic. I red the review and ordered OPA627's for the dac section and LM4562's for the headphone section. I founded this "weird" mod with some resistor and the dual OPA 627's. A photo is probably gonna explane more here.
   


Spoiler: Picture%20OPA627










   
   


Spoiler: Picture%20Stock%20OPA%20637










   
  The result was amazing, it sounds so much better now and most importantly it always gets my foot tapping. I think these are the best changes for the Zero Dac, as far as price is a concern. I definitely recommend these to anyone who isn't happy with the sound, I really love the Zero now. 
   
  Link for the OPA 627's : http://viewitem.eim.ebay.fi/Biasing-Mod-Burr-Brown-OPA627AP-upgrade-part-for-Matrix-mstage-AMPs/140904693084/item?transId=809719574004


----------



## Quistius

Hi,
  Please forgive me my bad English. I am not a native speaker. Believe me that I do my best to make it at least understandable for you. Moreover: I am a laymen on the field of computer audio..
   
  Regarding the Zero DAC (but equally important for other external DAC's) how do you avoid that lossless music is "distorted" by the sound card during playing back? I have searched for an answer on this question on the internet many times but I never found an answer that was conclusively. When I want to playback FLAC music the music player software either does not give me the opportunity to set preferences which guarantee that the FLAC music is sent directly to the DAC. Some programs give me the possiblity to choose AISO (or Kernel streaming) but it seems that the Zero DAC is not suitable to play back with this "format".Possibly the media player is also not suitable for this "format".
  The only possibility which remains then is that I choose for "Direct sound", but in that case the music passes the sound card in my PC and I don't know what this has for consequences for my lossless music.
  I would be very happy if any one of you specialists could give me an answer on this question!


----------



## Shootinputin187

I just bought the ZERO Dac -09 anout week ago, i've noticed that when i turn the volume low, right channel on my headphones shuts down, and i can only hear the left channel? Its only on low volume so it doesnt bother me almost at all, just asking is this normal with zero's or do i have a pub unit?


----------



## AmarokCZ

It's normal with cheap potentiometers like one in ZERO.


----------



## Shootinputin187

What do you guys think about the V-Dac by Musical fidelity? better than the zero and if it is, by how much?


----------



## Stank

I have a heavily modified DAC Zero, that to me sounds like a much more expensive DAC. Much more...
   
  Here is what was changed in it:
   
  The power supply was reviewed, but nothing really changed. Just adjusted the voltage and all so it would match the standard in Brazil.
  The IEC was changed to a top-of-line Furutech
  The RCA conectors where replaced by Vampire RCA (digital and analog)
  All the analogic stage was replaced by a custom made board.
  Power cable was replaced by a Cardas Twinlink that I had from another system which was sold.
   
  All of this actually costed a bit more than the original DAC price, but I have to tell you that it was worth it. It's now a 400usd DAC that sounds better than any 500usd DAC I've heard. Easily.


----------



## AmarokCZ

Mine is also heavily modded (more than the one mentioned above), total cost is less than 300$. The price is lower since I'm not placebo lover so I didn't changed IEC or RCA connectors or others.
  In my experience ZERO can beat many DAC/AMPs up to ~500 to 600$.


----------



## Stank

Quote: 





amarokcz said:


> Mine is also heavily modded (more than the one mentioned above), total cost is less than 300$. The price is lower since I'm not placebo lover so I didn't changed IEC or RCA connectors or others.
> In my experience ZERO can beat many DAC/AMPs up to ~500 to 600$.


 

 I saw most of what you done on the page you linked. What have you changed in the analogic stage of the DAC? I found it to be the most important area to upgrade in my experience.


----------



## AmarokCZ

Yes it's the most important. I changed the setpoint of the LPF filter and in my ZERO I also changed the four decoupling caps right in front of the LPF filter. Also the OAs were changed to OPA627.


----------



## T.L.A

Hi guys,
   
  Kind of new to the whole DACs thing and I'm having problem connecting the Zero DAC. Basically PC => Zero DAC => O2 => Earphones; but I can't get any sound, only hiss. Is my connection wrong?
   
Thanks in advance


----------



## AmarokCZ

If you are NOT using USB try different S/PDIF source. That it's something wrong with ZERO ... I guess.


----------



## T.L.A

I forgot to mention that I'm using the usb input. I tried the rca output and still couldn't get any sound. So is there a driver or anything for the zero DAC?


----------



## AmarokCZ

Try S/PDIF and pray for sound.


----------



## cybertron

I really hate to create a new thread for my question, so I'll append it here and hope someone can point me in the right direction. 
   
  My current setup is as follows: USB --> Pico DAC --> Audio Engine A2 speakers (3.5mm) && Rockhopper M^3 Amp (RCA) 
   
  I was hoping to use the Zero DAC as a volume control for the A2 speakers since the knob is currently on the back of those and it's really annoying to reach behind and change the volume. Seeing as the Zero only have 1 Line out, can anyone tell me if this will work by splitting it or something? Or can someone point me in the right direction of another DAC with more output options? The Zero would be nice as an additional headphone amp when I'm bored w/ the M^3, but my main goal here is to feed my M^3 and my powered A2 speakers. 
   
  On a side note, adding computer gaming to the mix, has anyone experimented w/ CMSS-3D or Dolby out the DAC for positional assistance while playing FPS games?
   
  Thanks in advance for any input.


----------



## AmarokCZ

ZERO has one LINE OUT, but it is switchable between: (1) fixed output; and (2) regulated output (regulation via volume control on front panel).


----------



## cybertron

Quote: 





amarokcz said:


> ZERO has one LINE OUT, but it is switchable between: (1) fixed output; and (2) regulated output (regulation via volume control on front panel).


 
  Isnt the front panel output amped? My speakers are powered, and so I'm thinking an amped source would be bad, no?


----------



## AmarokCZ

Yes, the regulated LINE OUT is amped the same way as headphone out.


----------



## cybertron

Quote: 





amarokcz said:


> Yes, the regulated LINE OUT is amped the same way as headphone out.


 
   
  Ah ok, both are amped. Can you help me understand this then... If I am trying to get the audio out to my M^3 amp, should you not amp the music twice? as you should not DAC the music twice either?
   
  Maybe I just need a different DAC w/ volume control and no amp. Thoughts?


----------



## AmarokCZ

Not sure if we understand each other. Fixed LINE isn't amped. Regulated LINE is amped.
   
  M3 has volume control so you can just use ZERO switched on fixed output LINE as DAC without volume control. ...or no?


----------



## cybertron

Quote: 





amarokcz said:


> Not sure if we understand each other. Fixed LINE isn't amped. Regulated LINE is amped.
> 
> M3 has volume control so you can just use ZERO switched on fixed output LINE as DAC without volume control. ...or no?


 
   
  Sorry, I thought you said lineout was Amped as well. Ok, so Lineout to M3 will work great. How about to my powered speakers which have 3.5 mini and RCA input? Can I run them off the amped side (1/4 output) or is it going to sound bad?


----------



## AmarokCZ

Well I said that because it's true in some cases: LINE OUT can be either amped or not. You can switch between these two modes using one button on front panel. So you can connect M3 to RCA LINE OUT (asd preffereably use fixed - unamped - output) and also connect speakers to either 1/4 jack or RCA LINE OUT (you have to disconnect M3 since the amped and unamped LINE OUT uses the same RCA connectors) while using amped RCA output or 1/4 jack output.


----------



## Lefoobar

Just got this amp. I really like it, but it gets quite hot. Not too hot to touch but pretty warm. Any idea what would be a safe operating temperature or any guidelines to keep this thing from being damaged?


----------



## AmarokCZ

The hottest place should be near the vents on the right side of the case. My normal temperature is ~15°C above the room temperature.
  Once I had another ZERO that was very hot becuse of the transformer. But it was the old ZERO (see first post).


----------



## petertz

Hi,


----------



## petertz

amarokcz said:


> Yes, the regulated LINE OUT is amped the same way as headphone out.


 
 Hi, Are you sure that? Do you have some ZERODAC schematics proving that? I think it's only attenuated via the same pot, switchable by relays. 
 Thank You!


----------



## AmarokCZ

I have schematic so I'm 100% sure. The signal path of regulated LINE OUT is following: DAC => headphone amp => headphone jack (it serves as switch: when there are no headphones plugged the output is wsitched towards line out connectors) => serial resistors (10k) => RCA connectors. Second "proof" is that there are 3 cables connected to headphone amp: line in, power and line out. And third proof: when you play 50Hz sine and connect multimeter to LINE OUT you will measure approx 2V, if you switch to regulated and turn volume to max you will measure ~ 8V => it's not attenuated by POT, but amped (by headphone amp).
 So from that you can see that regulated LINE OUT is degraded by additional amping by headphone amp and it also has huge output impedance.


----------



## petertz

Ok. Thank You. You convinced me of that. But that's too bad for the signal adding second amp in the path even better headphone amplifier as modding. It would be nice if the pot is only attenuator. Who needs 8v rms?


----------



## AmarokCZ

Since typical amplifier (stand-alone) has input impedance of 10kohm the output will be "only" 4Vrms. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Yes it's bad for signal, but it's like having preamplifier which is quite common and not supposed to be bad...


----------



## petertz

amarokcz said:


> Since typical amplifier (stand-alone) has input impedance of 10kohm the output will be "only" 4Vrms.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 >>Since typical amplifier (stand-alone) has input impedance of 10kohm the output will be "only" 4Vrms. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




>>>
 Would You explain this in detail. I thought that 2Vrms input is quite enough for every power amp even with 10kohm input impedance. I couldn't made sence with this.
 Thanks


----------



## AmarokCZ

Yes, 2Vrms is enough, but here the output will be 4Vrms: output from headphone amplifier is 8Vrms, output impedance of regulated LINE OUT is the same as input impedance of connected amplifier so the output voltage will be 4Vrms (resistive voltage divider: input 8V ant two resistors, both 10k).


----------



## Lefoobar

Has anybody tried this amp with an Audeze headphone? Or any planar magnetic for that matter. If so, what's it like? Thanks!


----------



## Solarium

Has anyone tried this with HD650, and made comparisons between this and the Schiit Vali?


----------



## press

Anybody can help to find out,how the Zero DAC´s power wires goes?My Zero´s power wires are like in Penchun´s first post,except second one from right is yellow instead white.
 I am plan to use this power to my Xmos based USB to SBDIF converter/DAC.I need about +10-15 AC and i think Zero´s power out is suitable for that.


----------



## Rexxe

Does anyone know a reliable retailer for these off of eBay?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Leftbehind

Does anyone know what the output power on this thing is? Cant find it anywhere.


----------



## smirnoff04

smirnoff04 said:


> Woot. The Zero arrived today.


 
  
 Almost 6 years to the day since that post, and I've used it on a daily basis ever since. Countless hours of unmodded enjoyment. 
  
 Except today it stopped working! I opened it up and didn't see any obvious since of destruction. I tried pressing each of the two reset buttons which made some leds blink, but didn't get the sound working again.
  
 I tried swapping out the fuse with the spare (even though the original didn't look burnt out) and that didn't fix anything either.
  
 It powers on and off just fine, and you can cycle through the inputs, but no sound. Tried coax and spdif... nada.
  
 Anyone have a magic solution or is my beloved Zero dead forever?


----------



## genclaymore

Have you check the op-amps? Maybe one of couple of them died.


----------



## smirnoff04

I wouldn't know where to begin, and probably don't have to equipment to check them anyways. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm assuming they're the little black chips that I can pop out...


----------



## genclaymore

yea they are, and you have to make sure the circle or notch on them match the notches on the op-amp socket. you need a IC remover tool


----------



## smirnoff04

Thanks genclaymore.
  
 Out of curiosity what would "checking" them entail? I assume I'd need a multimeter at the least?
  
 How much might a replacement chip cost, ballpark?


----------



## genclaymore

smirnoff04 said:


> Thanks genclaymore.
> 
> Out of curiosity what would "checking" them entail? I assume I'd need a multimeter at the least?
> 
> How much might a replacement chip cost, ballpark?


 
 Depends on which op-amp it is, Some can be had for 4 dollars some more. it be the Dip-8 ones that you want. Because I know if a op-amp goes bad you will loose sound, as I have had some bad op-amps in the past.


----------



## swannie007

Just got my Zero yesterday and have been listening to it since power-up and it seems to be getting better all the time(approx. 12 hours on it now) and I have tried an array of different headphones with various impedances and it drives all of them just fine. I must say that this is a helluva buy at less than $200.00 delivered! It makes stringed instruments sound very natural, even my Q701's sound good with it and that is saying something!
 If you are reading this and are in doubt about getting one, I would have to say-go for it!
 Glad I read the original review of this unit as that is what convinced me to purchase it. Happy camper.
 Now back to the music selection and trying some more headphones with it.


----------



## Nukeshock

Hey guys, so I have had the zero Dac for about 2 years now been enjoying it alot, now I'm looking to upgrade or to improve, should I get the schiit Vali tune amp and use it with the zero Dac or would it be better to replace the whole thing with the schiit loki Dac?


----------



## atupal

Hi, I had been using the ZERO DAC (no usb version) for a long time.
 Three weeks ago, the power button stop working and the machine keep power-on all the time.
 I had tried open the case but can do nothing at all........
 Now, I need to unplug the power cord every time after use.
 Does anyone have an idea of how to fix it?
  
 On the other hand, if I would like to upgrade to a new DAC +headamp, any recommendation for the price of around $200.
  
 Many many thanks.


----------



## AmarokCZ

Fix it by replacing the power switch with new one... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 If you feel like replacing ZERO for something better then start with something more expensive than 200$.


----------



## atupal

Hi Amarok,
  
 I had tried open up the case but found the power switch was covered rather firmly, for a non-diyer, no confident to do so.
 Last night, when I plug in the power cord, zero power led blink and strange sound came out of the earphone.
 I tried to on/off the power button for a few times, then it works again. I can switch on & off the zero last night.
 Don't know how long will this last......
  
 Any recommendation if the zero finally die and need a new replacement
  
 thanks.


----------



## AmarokCZ

I don't quite uderstand what's the problem with switch replacement - you just unsrew two screws, remove the black shrink-tube (= cut it open) and replace the switch for new one.
 About the recommendation: on the same level as ZERO there is Audinst HUD-mx1 for example; better choices than original ZERO are Audio-GD products (NFB 15 or something second-handed)...


----------



## atupal

Thanks so much for your reply.
  
 I will try it when the switch fail to work again.


----------



## jocar37

After reading the first several pages of this thread, I bought a Zero.  It arrived last week (about 3 days after my order - from China!). When it arrived, I hooked it up to my PC via the USB port to burn it in.  This is my first dac/headphone amp, but it sounded great to me out of the box. During the burn in process, I happened to be crawling around the back of my computer, and noticed there was an audio out port.  So I trotted over to Radio Shack and got an Auvio digital coax cable. I hooked up the digital coax cable and cycled the Zero (LED light changed) - no sound.  USB still worked.  So I figured maybe there was a problem with the audio digital port on my computer.
  
 However, I actually bought the Zero to use with my home audio system, because my Oppo BDP 103 lacks a headphone jack.  Since the Oppo was already connected to other components, the only available audio out was the digital coax.  So I connected the Zero and the Oppo via Auvio cable, and voila - my HD700's were singing.
  
 I then tried connecting the Zero to my Squeezebox Touch via the USB port, which had worked perfectly when it was hooked up to my computer. NO SOUND!  To check the Squeezebox, I turned my Maggie's on, and the Squeezebox worked fine through them.
  
 So I'm perplexed.  Is the Zero designed to work with only one input connection at a time?  I thought the purpose of the selector was specifically so you could choose among several simultaneously connected sources.  So am I wrong in thinking there is something wrong with my Zero?  Or is there some software or another "trick" I need to try to get it to play music from different inputs simultaneously connected?
  
 If there is something wrong, does anyone have any experience with cheaply shipping something back to China/Hong Kong?


----------



## HumanSaurusRex

Hi guys!
 Should I go Zero DAC or Cambridge DacMagic? Anyone has experienced both?
  
 Would be very happy to read your opinion.


----------



## AmarokCZ

*HumanSaurusRex*: in the 2010 the ZERO was certainly better than Dacmagic. But I think there were some updates on DACmagic since that time, but there were also quite big audible differences in ZERO in that time.
*jocar37*: ZERO works even with all inputs connected, so I recommend trying optical input. If optical is OK than the coaxial input is defective (maybe just connector). If the optical is not working then there is something strange happening since the USB in nothing more than USB=>S/PDIF converter with S/PDIF output internally connected to the third S/PDIF input.


----------



## nerady

Hello all,
  
 I have been using the Zero for the past two years with my Q701s and it has been a detailed and analytical journey. I run the LT1364 + LT1469 combination for the DAC/AMP. However, I am looking for a more relaxed, smoother sound and am planning to upgradeto the Audeze LCD-2s.
  
 I was wondering if anybody has had experience with the combination and if the amp has enough power to make the Audezes sound good?


----------



## Lefoobar

I use the Zero DAC via USB (stock) + LCD-2's and I find it to be quite laid back as it is. I haven't tried LT1364 + LT1469 but i'm in the process of swapping the OPamps to achieve the same feel as you. So i'll let you know how it goes. Other than that the DAC/Amp drives the LCD-2's just fine and sounds great!.


----------



## nerady

Nice! The Opamp switch was a big help to the sound. Bass got tighter and did not sound as recessed. I was able to get them by requesting free samples from Linear. Best deal EVER!! Yea, let me know how it goes.


----------



## jocar37

Amarok CZ - I went to use the optical port, but there's a piece of plastic protruding from it.  Is that supposed to be in there?  My optical cable doesn't seem to fit.  I thought maybe it was a protective piece to cover the port when not in use, but it doesn't seem to come out, and I didn't want to force it.


----------



## AmarokCZ

Yes, it is used for protection and it needs some force to pull it out, so try harder.


----------



## jocar37

It works.  Thanks!


----------



## WiZLV

ZERO 24 /192 DAC is better than Asus STX?
 ZERO 24 /192 DAC is better than Yulong U100?


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## jocar37

This is probably a bit of a noob question, but here goes.  I have the Zero hooked up to an Oppo BDP 103 and a Squeezebox Touch.  I can control the volume with the Touch remote, but not with the Oppo remote, which works fine when listening through my speakers.  Anyone know why the Oppo remote won't let me control the volume through the Zero?


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## Pablo Albino

Hi guys!
  
 Does Zero accept 24 bits/192 khz via USB input?


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## LeBuLLeT

My headphone amp has gone bad. Does anyone know where I can buy a replacement? I have to adjust how I insert the headphone jack and changing volumes creates loud-hiss.


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## Nauhuri

My Zero DAC stopped working a while ago and now I'm looking to fix it. It is the non-USB version.
 It just stopped working out of the blue. It powers on and the lights work, just no sound at all from either analog line out or headphone socket. I tried numerous combinations of optical, coaxial, RCAs, two different CD-players..
  
 At first I thought that my crappy solder job had failed (I had two OPA627s on an adapter) but switching back to the stock opamp didn't do anything. How should I go about troubleshooting it?
  
 Like I said, it just stopped working. One day it worked fine, the next day no sound. I didn't touch it in between.


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## JamesBr

lebullet said:


> My headphone amp has gone bad. Does anyone know where I can buy a replacement? I have to adjust how I insert the headphone jack and changing volumes creates loud-hiss.


 
 Maybe some basic troubleshooting will help:
 http://tangentsoft.net/audio/trouble.html


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## dm69

Hello!
 My start setup was Yamaha CD-N500 as network receiver (gets flacs from NAS), Yamaha R-S700 as stereo receiver and Dali Lektor 2. I was really dissapointed sound after DAC in CD-N500 - pretty harsh, I could not  listen more the 10-15 minutes, so I bought small, not expensive but with good reviews dac SMSL 1955 (1st version with AD1955). After that  sound (instrumental, jazz, vocal, blues, some rock) became better. But I'm still looking for comfort, soft, velvet, enveloping sound.  Can Zero Dac help to find it or at least will be closer to it in comparing with SMSL?


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## DimarzioMesaFan

I realize this thread is a bit old but just curious if anybody is still around. Worthwhile with HD600? I'm really not interested in totally modding it, maybe swapping opamps but not replacing the entire head amp. 
  
 Alternatives would be Micca Origen/Schiit Stack/Aune X1S(way more expensive and less power).


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## unbiased

nauhuri said:


> My Zero DAC stopped working a while ago and now I'm looking to fix it. It is the non-USB version.
> It just stopped working out of the blue. It powers on and the lights work, just no sound at all from either analog line out or headphone socket. I tried numerous combinations of optical, coaxial, RCAs, two different CD-players..
> 
> At first I thought that my crappy solder job had failed (I had two OPA627s on an adapter) but switching back to the stock opamp didn't do anything. How should I go about troubleshooting it?
> ...


 
 My original Zero DAC headphone amp also just stopped working out of the clear blue recently.  Does anyone have a schematic for it?  I suspect it is the DAC board and not the power amp board because I can hear the hum from each channel through the headphones as I touch and probe the audio IC chip pins on the amp board. I can hear scratchy sound as I turn the volume knob so the amp portion is probably okay. It's the big main DAC board where the problem is.  I suspect it is most likely bad capacitors due to aging but have no idea which ones to start checking logically first.  A schematic diagram would really help. Anyone been down this path?


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## c64

bad caps are easily spotted they will have leaks and or be swollen


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## RoyT

How is it that there's no max power output info of this device nowhere? (im talking about the new zero 637 model) How can i know what headphones this thing is capable of driving,and how it would comare to say magni 2 or O2 in terms of power?


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## ScottieB

Don't know if anyone is still reading this but I was away from Head-fi for some time and have been back recently... wondering what ever happened to Penchum (who started this thread) and Pricley Peete. Those guys basically got me started with headphone gear (and I haven't exactly changed much since really) and reading their old posts/reviews has been somewhat nostalgic. But they haven't been around much recently from what I can see, so I'm curious. Thanks for any info. PM is fine or here


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## dogears

wanted to get one but lost my interest after reading last few failing units posts


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## mateusfig (Oct 12, 2017)

My Zero won't do from 176,4/2 to 192/24. When I input these sample rates the Zero distorces and clicks. Up to 96/24 it's perfect! Then, it's not true it suports 192/24. I doubt my unit is defective because what would cause this limitation??


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## Newtothis142

This vs used Schitt stack or Fulla 2 for a Hifiman HE-400i? Would use for gaming and music.


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## finubi

Don't buy it it's garbage


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## desaturated

my Zero dac is finally dead and it has serve me pretty well. I am currently looking for a replacement. How is this compared to Modi 3 with JDS Atom?


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## mannnu81

Cool


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## mannnu81

I have one and it's been in storage for ten years I wanna bring it back out and try it again.


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