# Sennheiser's Own Balanced Cables for HD 600/650, HD 700, and HD 800 Available This Week



## jude

A lot of Sennheiser aficionados have been waiting for Sennheiser's own balanced cables for their flagship HD headphones since they were first shown.
  
 The Sennheiser CH 650 S (for the Sennheiser HD 600/650), CH 700 S (for the Sennheiser HD 700), and the CH 800 S (for the Sennheiser HD 800) will be available this week, on Sennheiser's own online store, and through Sennheiser's dealer network.
  
 The specifications for the cables are as follows:
  

Sennheiser CH 650 S:
Four leads configured as two straight pairs made of copper (OFC).
Length is 3m (around 10 feet).
Termination is 4-pin XLR.
Weight is 95g (3.35 oz).
Price is $239.95
  

Sennheiser CH 700 S:
Four leads configured as two twisted pairs made of silver-plated copper (OFC) and shielded.
Length is 3m (around 10 feet).
Termination is 4-pin XLR.
Weight is 125g (4.40 oz).
Price is $319.95
 ​

Sennheiser CH 800 S:
Four leads configured as two twisted pairs made of silver-plated copper (OFC) and shielded.
Length is 3m (around 10 feet).
Termination is 4-pin XLR.
Weight is 130g (4.59 oz).
Price is $379.95

  
 We have all of these cables here at Head-Fi HQ, and will be posting photos of them soon. Here are Sennheiser's own stock photos of these cables. (Left to right) Sennheiser CH 650 S, Sennheiser CH 700 S, and Sennheiser CH 800 S. (Click on any of the images below to see full size.)


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## SoulSyde

Yes!  I've been waiting for these to be available in the US after catching wind about them several weeks ago.  Thanks for sharing Jude!


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## TMRaven

380 dollars for a cable...


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## Dubstep Girl

grossly overpriced, the HD 800 cable is way too much and the HD 650 cable costs almost as much as the headphone.


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## thegunner100

tmraven said:


> 380 dollars for a cable...


 

 Seriously... for a STOCK cable. For that money, I could have gotten a much nicer aftermarket cable.


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## mcandmar

Sexy looking XLR plug, but i agree the price is a bit rich when its half the price of the headphones.


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## SoulSyde

tmraven said:


> 380 dollars for a cable...


 
  
 I'm looking at the HD 650 cable, which is reasonably priced.  If I owned the HD 800, I don't think I would go the OEM route.


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## Androb

What does you guys at Head-fi hq think about them then? Are they worth buying?


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## YoengJyh

300+ USD ...


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## GoldfishX

I paid $1500 for a headphone, the balanced cable should come with the damn thing.


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## LifeAspect

already have one ^_^


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## mab1376

tmraven said:


> 380 dollars for a cable...


 

 but it re-manufactures audio into studio quality even from a 96Kbps mp3. $380 for a few dozens strands of copper, $50 tops in connectors and some sleeving and braiding sounds like a steal to me.


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## jbarrentine

Anyone who gives into this is a fool. For the price of the HD700 and HD800 they should come packaged with these cables. The hifi world needs to learn when to say NO or the prices will just keep going up.


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## TMRaven

Seriously.  The Audezes all already come with their own balanced cables as an option, and those headphones are already overpriced as it is.
  
 -1 to Sennheiser.


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## faverodefavero

> The hifi world needs to learn when to say NO or the prices will just keep going up.


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## squallkiercosa

faverodefavero said:


>



Consumers should stop buying overpriced products. If you guys keep buying every expensive toy out there the demand will push companies to raise the prices for hi-end gear..  don't be surprised when regular headphones end up costing as much as the Abyss...


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## TheWuss

So, sennheiser, you're saying the connectors on the hd800 cable cost $60 more.
Okay. We believe you. :rolleyes:


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## Armaegis

Nice to know the HD700 connectors are the same as my cheapo Senn HD212...
  
 C'mon Sennheiser, at least standardize going forward. I can sort of understand the HD25/600/650 connectors being a holdover from the past (the spring clips with exposed leads module is a terrible idea, but that's another matter), but that's no excuse with your flagship level headphones.


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## linglingjr

I clicked this reading the headline and thinking "Wow that's a really great idea, +1 to sennheiser." And then I see the price... Disappointing.


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## kurochin

If you guys think cables made by a headphone company are overpriced, just wait till you see prices of headphones made by a cable company...... *cough... JPS Abyss... cough*


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## HiFiGuy528

Thanks for the detailed post Jude.  You Da Man! 
  
 My popular unboxing and first look will be up tonight.  I'll embed it here for you guys.


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## LifeAspect

Why is America getting the cable so late? I have had mine for my hdvd800 for quite a while now thx to customcables ....read about 2? months ago.
 Balanced HD800 with hdvd800 is in a different league than most other headphones!


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## ericohgb

Over USD 300 for the OEM cable?
 I made my own HD800 4-XLR balanced cable with Mogami cables and a Neutrik conector...
 I recall spending no more than USD 50...


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## HiFiGuy528

Using high-quality parts to assemble a cable is not the same as designing cables to have perfect synergy with the headphones. These official Sennheiser cables are designed for those models.


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## squallkiercosa

hifiguy528 said:


> Using high-quality parts to assemble a cable is not the same as designing cables to have perfect synergy with the headphones. These official Sennheiser cables are designed for those models.




Enlighten us please. Could you be more specific?


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## benjaminhuypham

$400+ cable for $1500 headphone = $1900, not even including Amp. Those head-fiers are loosing minds and brains nowadays. Look at how many expensive stuffs they buy, $2000 for cable, $15000 for Amp, $5000 for headphone. High-end audio world is destroyed by the greediness of audio companies. Sennheiser products are getting seriously overpriced. $1500 headphone must come with stock and balance cable, period.


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## jespersen

I cannot stop laughing about this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





! Mark my words - the true story is that these cables will be dirt cheap for the dealers and when you are from now on standing in a shop considering buying a HD800 they can then easily say "we'll give you a balanced cable for free since you are such a good customer" and you'll feel you really got something extra for your money while in reality they just gave you a 25$ cable - ha ha ha ha!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 No wonder they made their new amplifier balanced, they probalby have the same margin on the cable as the amp... Truth is, if their flagship headphone sounds better balanced they should ship it that way in the first place by simply having an adapter plug (to let the client choose balanced or not) and not this...


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## mikemercer

hifiguy528 said:


> Using high-quality parts to assemble a cable is not the same as designing cables to have perfect synergy with the headphones. These official Sennheiser cables are designed for those models.


 
 We're going to be putting these to the test over at Audio360.org SOON!
 We currently have them in-house and will be giving them a go.  
  
 Thanks to @HiFiGuy528 for acquiring the review samples!
  
 I also have other cables for my HD800's (Cardas Clear, WyWires, soon DoubleHelix)
 so we'll see how they shake out.
  
 HiFiguy means they voiced these cables specifically for the headphone (since I haven't seen or heard it yet - or received technical info, this could mean anything from using a certain geometry, dialectric, material science): all of these things could be employed in order to find a cable that mates well with the headphones. It's all about synergy - so lets see what happens!


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## JWahl

hifiguy528 said:


> Using high-quality parts to assemble a cable is not the same as designing cables to have perfect synergy with the headphones. These official Sennheiser cables are designed for those models.


 
 I would normally agree with this, if there were something uncommon or special about the materials they were using.  I have to assume they are using the same thin gauge wire as the unbalanced HD800 cable which isn't anything spectacular.  I'll admit they do look nice, but a poor value. At that price they should at least throw something in like OCC copper or something for at very least psychological benefit.
  
 A good example of the value I speak of is the Oyaide Neo D+ S-class RCA cable:
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Oyaide-Series-Class-RCA-Cable/dp/B004HBPYS6
 http://www.neo-w.com/catalog/2010/12/d-rca_en.html
  
 They utilized Platinum/Rhodium plated terminals and OCC wires, with aluminum housings and flat cable structure.  They sell for $130/1m which isn't cheap but at least they're throwing in the premium materials for the price.  Even if there are those who would argue their sonic benefit.  They are marketed towards DJ's however which explains their lower price.  If they were marketed towards audiophiles, they would likely retail for $500-$1000 or more.


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## Austin Morrow

I'd _much_ rather put $200-$400 into something like Toxic Cables or Double Helix Cables, but it's also nice to have an officail cable for the same headphone, so to speak.


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## Currawong

austin morrow said:


> I'd _much_ rather put $200-$400 into something like Toxic Cables or Double Helix Cables, but it's also nice to have an officail cable for the same headphone, so to speak.


 
  
 That's the thing: People here who are going to buy an aftermarket balanced cable are going to get one from one of the small guys that doesn't have to double the price to allow for dealer margins, which is what I think is going on here.


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## Lzingano

Well... I think we should wait for a comparison to see if they are really worth the premium or not, how about that? perhaps they are THAT good afterall?


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## 00lunar

My guess is, that official balanced Sennheiser cables are the old ones, but terminated with 4-pin connectors, no innards changed. I know, theorycrafting here, let's wait for some tests. But if I'm right, those really need to be replaced by something better.


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## louis9

How does this sennheiser cable compare it with moon audio black dragon cable?


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## 00lunar

louis9 said:


> How does this sennheiser cable compare it with moon audio black dragon cable?


 

 Have no idea about those, I'm using different one, aftermarket as well. It makes lots of good things to my HD 800.


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## HiFiGuy528

lzingano said:


> Well... I think we should wait for a comparison to see if they are really worth the premium or not, how about that? perhaps they are THAT good afterall?


 
  
 +1  It's only fair.


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## jeffreyfranz

goldfishx said:


> I paid $1500 for a headphone, the balanced cable should come with the damn thing.


 
  
 No crap! My feelings exactly. My HD-800 has given me immense joy, but c'mon, manufacturers, must you squeeze extra profit out of your customers at every possible opportunity? By comparison, look at what Audeze includes with their headphones. Sennheiser is not alone in this, to be sure, but still.


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## tvolpe1600

The pricing on these cables is outrageous. Any member of this community knows to spend that much money on aftermarket cables from a small custom shop that will produce a higher quality product. Huge Senn fail.


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## 00lunar

tvolpe1600 said:


> The pricing on these cables is outrageous. Any member of this community knows to spend that much money on aftermarket cables from a small custom shop that will produce a higher quality product. Huge Senn fail.


 

 This. To some degree at least for now.


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## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

tvolpe1600 said:


> The pricing on these cables is outrageous. Any member of this community knows to spend that much money on aftermarket cables from a small custom shop that will produce a higher quality product. Huge Senn fail.


 
  
 When there are people willing to buy $300 USB and Power Cables that scientifically speaking can have zero sonic sound difference from their $2 counter parts, you can't really blame Sennheiser for trying to get their foot in the door, although I would of though better of a German company. 
  
 That being said, I have to say that I prefer the stock HD800  (and now the CH800s as well) cable to any other simply because of the fit and finish. The cable is really well built and fits the headphone very well.


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## viveksaikia22

I can DIY the cables, sans the fancy connectors, with same or higher quality, at a fraction of the cost.
 C'Mon Sennheiser....STOP fooling around!!


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## linglingjr

oicwutudidthar said:


> When there are people willing to buy $300 USB and Power Cables that scientifically speaking can have zero sonic sound difference from their $2 counter parts, you can't really blame Sennheiser for trying to get their foot in the door, although I would of though better of a German company.
> 
> That being said, I have to say that I prefer the stock HD800  (and now the CH800s as well) cable to any other simply because of the fit and finish. The cable is really well built and fits the headphone very well.


 
  
 I can REALLY blame sennheiser for getting in the snake oil magic cable market. When small companies make crazy claims and charge insane prices that the majority of people don't take seriously that's just fine, it's not like they make a huge amount of low-high end headphones/audio equipment. If this says something says about sennheiser's future marketing plans it sure isn't positive.


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## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

linglingjr said:


> I can REALLY blame sennheiser for getting in the snake oil magic cable market. When small companies make crazy claims and charge insane prices that the majority of people don't take seriously that's just fine, it's not like they make a huge amount of low-high end headphones/audio equipment. If this says something says about sennheiser's future marketing plans it sure isn't positive.


 
  
 They are a business, they are in it to make $$$. I'm not saying it's right, but it's true. There is obviously a reasonably large market that's willing to pay for these cables.


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## Gruffnutz

> ...HiFiguy means they voiced these cables specifically for the headphone (since I haven't seen or heard it yet - or received technical info, this could mean anything from using a certain geometry, dialectric, material science): all of these things could be employed in order to find a cable that mates well with the headphones. It's all about synergy - so lets see what happens!


 
  
 So much BS here.  Anyone out there 'voicing' cables is both deluded and no longer in the fidelity business.  The much vaunted 'synergy' is simply the flawed process of attempting to correct design deficiencies in one part of a system by overlaying 'compensating' design deficiencies in another.  It's like trying to catch smoke...


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## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Also, since Senn is getting into the snake oil cable market, you think they would of at least made these cables out of pure silver instead of OFC!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 (I still think the hd800 cable is very nice though construction wise, better then any aftermarket, but still)


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## GoldfishX

oicwutudidthar said:


> They are a business, they are in it to make $$$. I'm not saying it's right, but it's true. There is obviously a reasonably large market that's willing to pay for these cables.


 
  
 Not saying you're wrong, but it's not like these headphones are spring chickens (well, maybe HD700). Wouldn't most people who own them already have aftermarket cables already, if they wanted to upgrade the stock cables?


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## GoldfishX

jeffreyfranz said:


> No crap! My feelings exactly. My HD-800 has given me immense joy, but c'mon, manufacturers, must you squeeze extra profit out of your customers at every possible opportunity? By comparison, look at what Audeze includes with their headphones. Sennheiser is not alone in this, to be sure, but still.


 

 The irony, I had been looking at getting an HD600 for awhile. The damn HD800 balanced cable costs almost exactly as much as HD600 does at face value (I can get the headphone cheaper, as a lot of Senn phones seem discounted right now).
  
 I'm wagering the profit margin on the cable trumps the profit margin on the HD600. Eh, Sennheiser?


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## dotrunghieu

tmraven said:


> 380 dollars for a cable...


 
 this price kills me


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## frix

ridiculous!
  
 As much as I like the overpriced HD800
 I don't see me buying this excessively overpriced cable.


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## devhen

I saw this on the front page and got REALLY excited. Then I saw the prices.
  
 If I was going to buy an overpriced cable I'd rather spend a little over half as much and get one from one of the "little guys".
  
 EDIT: I wish my 2,000th post could have been spent on something more positive.  Maybe we'll eventually see "refurbished" Sennheiser cables for half the price??? Haha, I doubt it.


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## songmic

I don't understand why Sennheiser would provide a warm-sounding copper cable for the already-warm-sounding HD650, and a bright-sounding SPC cable (which is even brighter than pure silver) for the already-bright-sounding HD800? Shouldn't it be the other way around? I was hoping they would address this issue with their balanced cables, but no...
  
 But of course, the biggest deal-breaker is the price. Who the hell would pay $380 for what's basically an XLR version of the stock cable? That's more expensive than cables offered by aftermarket 3rd parties (Moon Audio, Double Helix Cables, etc.), which are actually of higher build quality and sound. I think it would make more sense to be able to trade in your stock cable with an XLR version at a small cost, for those who really need an XLR cable.


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## Canadian411

I used to buy aftermarket cables but IMO I can't hear any differences when I am blindfolded.
I don't have golden ears like most of people here so for me after market cables are really waste of money.

However, I can hear the differences between SE vs Balanced cables.

Tips : You can buy cardas DIY bulk cables and few connectors, it's way way cheaper than buying from MoonAudio/ALO etc.


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## steveting99

I can forsee Sennheiser going into the bling business if these cables sell really well. Those Monster Beats headphones were more of a fashion statement then really about sound quality. These cables are going down the same path. Won't really stop anyone who wants to make a statement from purchasing these cables, but to say these cables are really improving sound quality is stretching the truth a bit too far.::rolleyes:

I'm thinking of getting a pair of HD650 as I like the sound signature from a friends pair. Think I'll skip the balanced cable option.


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## LifeAspect

balanced vs unbalanced HDVD800 outputs do make a noticable difference though....has nothing to do with the cable quality though but with the outputs on the amplifer, that and the price of aftermarket cables are actually more expensive for me here in Belgium because I have to import them from America so generally speaking, the price of these in euro are lower than the price of alternatives.


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## Canadian411

lifeaspect said:


> balanced vs unbalanced HDVD800 outputs do make a noticable difference though....has nothing to do with the cable quality though but with the outputs on the amplifer, that and the price of aftermarket cables are actually more expensive for me here in Belgium because I have to import them from America so generally speaking, the price of these in euro are lower than the price of alternatives.



 


Yes you are right, I meant to say SE vs Balanced setup. HDVD800 is on my next wish list item  complete Sennheiser setup...


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## eugenius

Finally! Now we can all bask in the glory that is the new Sennheiser!


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## JefferyK

"balanced vs unbalanced HDVD800 outputs do make a noticable difference though....has nothing to do with the cable quality though but with the outputs on the amplifer, that and the price of aftermarket cables are actually more expensive for me here in Belgium because I have to import them from America so generally speaking, the price of these in euro are lower than the price of alternatives."

Exactly -- where are all of these balanced aftermarket cables for the HD-800/HDVD-800 combo that cost less than Sennheiser's? I'm in the US, and I ordered the Sennheiser HD-800 cable from the UK. Once VAT was deducted, it cost roughly $350 including shipping. I believe HeadRoom's re-terminated stock cable is $350-ish. Not sure what all of the whining in this thread is about. And there's loads of cable voodoo talk creeping in. If you think the cable is too expensive, don't buy it. It was totally worth it to me. As stated, there is a noticeable difference between unbalanced and balanced on the HDVD-800.


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## Canadian411

jefferyk said:


> "balanced vs unbalanced HDVD800 outputs do make a noticable difference though....has nothing to do with the cable quality though but with the outputs on the amplifer, that and the price of aftermarket cables are actually more expensive for me here in Belgium because I have to import them from America so generally speaking, the price of these in euro are lower than the price of alternatives."
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly -- where are all of these balanced aftermarket cables for the HD-800/HDVD-800 combo that cost less than Sennheiser's? I'm in the US, and I ordered the Sennheiser HD-800 cable from the UK. Once VAT was deducted, it cost roughly $350 including shipping. I believe HeadRoom's re-terminated stock cable is $350-ish. Not sure what all of the whining in this thread is about. And there's loads of cable voodoo talk creeping in. If you think the cable is too expensive, don't buy it. It was totally worth it to me. As stated, there is a noticeable difference between unbalanced and balanced on the HDVD-800.



 


We all wish that the cable cost less but what can we do ? lol.

Your best bet is to DIY your own cable. Will probably ended up costing around $150ish. ($70 connectors, $50 cable, $20 teflon/heatshrink, $10 etc).


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## JefferyK

canadian411 said:


> jefferyk said:
> 
> 
> > "balanced vs unbalanced HDVD800 outputs do make a noticable difference though....has nothing to do with the cable quality though but with the outputs on the amplifer, that and the price of aftermarket cables are actually more expensive for me here in Belgium because I have to import them from America so generally speaking, the price of these in euro are lower than the price of alternatives."
> ...




Well, I would have loved to DIY my own cable . . . but I'm dumb: I don't know how! ! So I had no choice but to buy one. I did shop around and I did not find one under $350. Maybe I didn't look hard enough.

Even if I had found one, I'm not sure I would have bought it. The HDVD-800 amp was a big investment for me. I want to get the most that I can out of it. That means using a balanced cable. I bought the Sennheiser balanced cable because Sennheiser engineered my amp and Sennheiser engineered my HD-800 headphones, so I trust that Sennheiser knew what they were doing when they engineered the cable to connect the two. These Germans aren't amateurs, okay? ! Not remotely interested in trying to "tune" the headphones by using cables made by other manufacturers. Tried that before with a previous setup. Not worth the money in the long run, IMHO, and I am not interested in going there with my current setup.


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## lovehurts

No thanks.


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## GoldfishX

> We all wish that the cable cost less but what can we do ? lol.


 
  
 Sell your current Sennheiser headphone and buy something else? Food for thought.


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## Canadian411

goldfishx said:


> Sell your current Sennheiser headphone and buy something else? Food for thought.



 


Nah, I love HD800 more than any headphones that I tried so far (Except SR009 and LCD3), HD800 is a keeper.


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## Don Lehrer

I saw this thread and thought that´s something worth it, then I saw the prices and close my internet explorer


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## compuryan

Oh look another company offering expensive Sennheiser cables....
  
 *Yawn*


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## 00lunar

canadian411 said:


> goldfishx said:
> 
> 
> > Sell your current Sennheiser headphone and buy something else? Food for thought.
> ...



 


True, was going to sell mine, but with right amp ( HPA-21 or CMA800R) those are excellent. And they're oh so comfy.


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## gikigill

Very soon we will soon be seeing just headphones in a box. Need to plug them in? 

Oh wait that will be an extra $500 for your $2k headphones just like DLC in video games. Why give the full product when you can give half and still charge full price and the suckers lap it up.


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## senorx12562

Whatever the market will bear, I suppose. But then I wouldn't spend $1500 on headphones, either. Or even half that.


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## GoldfishX

I love mine too, but I wouldn't say I'm married to the Sennheiser brand either. I'd swap them out for something better in a heartbeat.
  
 Shame HD800 is so damn comfortable compared to the planar headphones, the achilles heel of the Audeze headphones is their fit. Even the Hifimans aren't close in straight up comfort, although much better than LCD's.


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## Canadian411

I really wonder if insanely priced after-market cable worth to buy, 

  
 For example, HD800 with Double Helix (DHC "Spore" Ultimate Headphone Cable) which starts at $2500 before the length upgrade.
 That will put around $4000-$5000 range for the HD800 + DH cable.  That`s the same price as Stax SR009 !!!
  
 Oh wait, I forget, DHC "Spore M" Modular, MSRP of $15,000. yes $15,000.
  
 So let`s stay on the positive side guys, with respect to DH cable prices, I think Sennheiser Factory cables are worth it IMNSSO. lol.


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## steveting99

canadian411 said:


> ...
> For example, HD800 with Double Helix (DHC "Spore" Ultimate Headphone Cable) which starts at $2500 before the length upgrade.
> That will put around $4000-$5000 range for the HD800 + DH cable.  That`s the same price as Stax SR009 !!!
> 
> ...


 
 I get the sarcastic humor, but these prices are simply insane.


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## chanwhk




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## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

^ you win the thread


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## HiFiGuy528

Some unboxed pics.  Build quality is very high, like the stock cables.  Can't wait to spend some time with them on the HDVD 800 and Oppo HA1 (also has balanced XLR).


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## chanwhk

hifiguy528 said:


> Some unboxed pics.  Build quality is very high, like the stock cables.  Can't wait to spend some time with them on the HDVD 800 and Oppo HA1 (also has balanced XLR).


 
  
 I smiled with confusion when I read "Build quality is very high, like the stock cables". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 But I trust you that it is HQ


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## skeptic

Good grief.  The connectors look nice, but the pricing is a joke.  I had assumed Sennheiser was finally going to bulk manufacturer good quality, reasonably affordable 4 pin xlr hd800 cables.  Instead, this is $50 more than a 10ft. balanced cable from DHC!


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## PiNa.cz

This is ridiculous...





When I have borrowed HD800 from local Sennheisser office for a weekend couple of weeks ago, they've put balanced cable in to the box as well. I was told balanced cable is sold separately for approx 4500CZK = 214USD over here.





When I've finally bought my HD800 last week the 1st thing I did was balancing of stock cable using Audio-GD's kit with male and female Neutriks which I bought together with my Reference 10.32.


30USD for both of them and some WBT silver solder. Soldering was piece of cake and the sound is identical to the sound of balanced Sennheiser cable.


Just sayin'...


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## Canadian411

pina.cz said:


> This is ridiculous...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


I feel dumb not having done that, can you share the link or the instruction how to do this ?

Thanks in advance.


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## skeptic

Hey Canadian411 - there's a discussion regarding how to cut and reterminate your stock cable into a 4pin xlr & 4pin xlr -> trs adapter here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-appreciation-thread/6840  See posts 6850 - 6854.
  
 I'm planning to do the same thing.


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## mcandmar

HD650 cable from China + Neutrik connector = bargain balanced HD650


I actually bought the cable second hand so it cost me pocket change to build..


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## HiFiGuy528

mcandmar said:


> HD650 cable from China + Neutrik connector = bargain balanced HD650
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


I'm not a fan of DIY because it looks DIY. The Sennheiser cables look and feel like OEM goodness.


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## HiFiGuy528

canadian411 said:


> jefferyk said:
> 
> 
> > "balanced vs unbalanced HDVD800 outputs do make a noticable difference though....has nothing to do with the cable quality though but with the outputs on the amplifer, that and the price of aftermarket cables are actually more expensive for me here in Belgium because I have to import them from America so generally speaking, the price of these in euro are lower than the price of alternatives."
> ...



 


You forgot the cost of labor and tools to do the job. How much does an hour or two out of your weekend is worth to you and your family (consult the wife on this)? How much time and energy will be spent on obtaining the parts and tools to do this DIY? Please consider those things.


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## linglingjr

hifiguy528 said:


> You forgot the cost of labor and tools to do the job. How much does an hour or two out of your weekend is worth to you and your family (consult the wife on this)? How much time and energy will be spent on obtaining the parts and tools to do this DIY? Please consider those things.


 
 Dude, give it a break.  You aren't going to convince anyone that these cables are reasonably priced.  Don't worry about it, no one's attacking you for buying them.


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## Canadian411

hifiguy528 said:


> canadian411 said:
> 
> 
> > jefferyk said:
> ...



 


I understand your point and thanks for that, 

But I also consider learning and DIY"ing" is fun and exciting. I am still young so I am curious on many things that brings me the challenge.
I never took an Electrical Engineering class back in the university years so I am interested in discovering it, that's all.

And, by doing this I learn quiet a lot,


----------



## HiFiGuy528

linglingjr said:


> Dude, give it a break.  You aren't going to convince anyone that these cables are reasonably priced.  Don't worry about it, no one's attacking you for buying them.



 


Not trying to convince anyone. Just being clear on the subject.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

linglingjr said:


> Dude, give it a break.  You aren't going to convince anyone that these cables are reasonably priced.  Don't worry about it, no one's attacking you for buying them.



 


Not trying to convince anyone. Just want to be clear on the subject.


----------



## elwappo99

hifiguy528 said:


> You forgot the cost of labor and tools to do the job. How much does an hour or two out of your weekend is worth to you and your family (consult the wife on this)? How much time and energy will be spent on obtaining the parts and tools to do this DIY? Please consider those things.


 
  
 Reterminating a stock cable into a 4-pin XLR? 15 minutes.
  
 Very easy procedure. How much time/cost is it for Sennheiser to put a 4 Pin XLR onto a cable instead of a 1/4"?  Pretty much nothing. 
  
  
  
 Quote:



> Consumers should stop buying overpriced products. If you guys keep buying every expensive toy out there the demand will push companies to raise the prices for hi-end gear..  don't be surprised when regular headphones end up costing as much as the Abyss...



  
 In recent years Sennheiser has also become guilty of this. These cables are just another step for them, not a shocking move all. I think people should realize that just as they are trying to inflate prices on these, Senn is also trying to inflate prices on all of their equipment. Caveat emptor.


----------



## Raptor34

"The Sennheiser cables look and feel like OEM goodness."    
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





     Oh please.    You sound like a sennheiser sales rep.  Go away.


----------



## squallkiercosa

elwappo99 said:


> In recent years Sennheiser has also become guilty of this. These cables are just another step for them, not a shocking move all. I think people should realize that just as they are trying to inflate prices on these, Senn is also trying to inflate prices on all of their equipment. Caveat emptor.


 
 Not to attack anyone but I'm surprised everytime I read and I quote: ''Abyss AB-1266 headphones run $5,495, but they're worth it'' to give an example. Everytime I see Hi-end audio gear I see wonderful pieces of art but always wonder if their asking prices are honest reflexions of sound quality versus lifestyle. I'm not anyone but I really would like to ask each one of you to spend wisely to show manufacturers we're not happy with imposed, inflated prices.


----------



## skeptic

looks like the hd800 "oem goodness" cable is already available at an $80 discount on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sennheiser-CH-800-S-balanced-XLR-Cable-for-HD-800-Headphones-505636-380-list-/131069348384?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e84578a20


----------



## Skyyyeman

For better sound than a Sennheiser stock cable and at a similar price, it would be far better to buy an after market premium cable from Moon Audio, ALO, etc.  The Senn cable is ok but on my HD800 when I replaced the stock cable with a Moon Audio Black Dragon cable, the sound was significantly improved -- more detail, transparency and bass.  Better overall.
  
 I see no reason to ever buy a Sennheiser stock cable, especially at those prices.


----------



## tvolpe1600

skyyyeman said:


> For better sound than a Sennheiser stock cable and at a similar price, it would be far better to buy an after market premium cable from Moon Audio, ALO, etc.  The Senn cable is ok but on my HD800 when I replaced the stock cable with a Moon Audio Black Dragon cable, the sound was significantly improved -- more detail, transparency and bass.  Better overall.
> 
> I see no reason to ever buy a Sennheiser stock cable, especially at those prices.


 
  
 Yes, my point exactly. The outrage over the Senn cables _is about the pricing_, not whether you should go balanced or just DIY. They should cost 50-90 bucks. They are stock cables. For that much money, you can get a superior balanced cable from not only Moon, ALO, but Forza Audio Works (if you're in the EU) or BTG here in the US. I have no stake in any cable company, but want to provide a few links because I think this is a giant rip off by Senn.
  
 http://forzaaudioworks.com/en/product.php?id_product=37
 http://btg-audio.com/webstore.htm#!/~/product/category=2609076&id=17894638


----------



## thegrobe

Balanced and single ended cables should both be supplied with a flagship. Audeze does it right. 

These cables are ridiculous- they are basically the same as stock but with a different plug? At this price? Shame. I'll be chopping the 1/4 plug off my new HD800 cable and putting a Neutrik XLR on it at a total cost of $6 and 6 minutes, thank you.


----------



## Canadian411

skyyyeman said:


> For better sound than a Sennheiser stock cable and at a similar price, it would be far better to buy an after market premium cable from Moon Audio, ALO, etc.  The Senn cable is ok but on my HD800 when I replaced the stock cable with a Moon Audio Black Dragon cable, the sound was significantly improved -- more detail, transparency and bass.  Better overall.
> 
> I see no reason to ever buy a Sennheiser stock cable, especially at those prices.


 

 I am really curious, can you really tell the differences between the stock cable vs upgraded Moon/ALO cables ?
 Maybe just me but I don't hear any differences, that's why for me recabling is waste of money other than going balanced.
 Someone needs to educate me on this.


----------



## Canadian411

elwappo99 said:


> Reterminating a stock cable into a 4-pin XLR? 15 minutes.
> 
> Very easy procedure. How much time/cost is it for Sennheiser to put a 4 Pin XLR onto a cable instead of a 1/4"?  Pretty much nothing.


 

 15 minutes to braid cables or just attaching the sockets/connectors ? you must have really really fast hands.  I can't.
  
 I am trying to make exact ALO Reference 16 cables, so 16 conductors, 8 going into each drivers.
 Probably will take me more than an hour but still you beat me  and cost to make 10 feet ALO is less than $300 including the Furutech connectors.


----------



## Audio addict19

LOL wow and i'm struggling to get a Senn HD 650 and amp for under 500 or a little over. The new aftermarket cable would be more then my amp and DAC.


----------



## tvolpe1600

canadian411 said:


> I am trying to make exact ALO Reference 16 cables, so 16 conductors, 8 going into each drivers. Probably will take me more than an hour but still you beat me  and cost to make 10 feet ALO is less than $300 including the Furutech connectors.


 
  
 Cool! What kind of wire? (And what supplier did you use?)


----------



## Skyyyeman

canadian411 said:


> I am really curious, can you really tell the differences between the stock cable vs upgraded Moon/ALO cables ?
> Maybe just me but I don't hear any differences, that's why for me recabling is waste of money other than going balanced.
> Someone needs to educate me on this.


 
 Yes, there was a significant improvement with the premium upgraded cables -- in my case from Moon Audio.  I've done it on the Senn HD25, HD600 and HD800 and the improvement was quite dramatic. It was readily apparent to anyone who listened to them.  And it didn't take extensive listening -- it was apparent in the first few seconds.  Several friends, after hearing the improvements on my phones, went out and bought upgraded cables for their own rigs.
  
 That said, the difference will certainly vary between various headphones and cables -- the more revealing the headphone and the better the upgraded cable, the more apparent any difference will be versus stock.  
  
 Based on experience, I certainly think you would hear a difference on a hp like the HD800 and with cables of the quality obtainable from Moon, ALO, and other top names. But on other phones - perhaps not so much, and maybe not at all if the phone is not that revealing, or the stock cable ain't too bad to start with, or the upgraded cable is not of sufficiently good quality.


----------



## Jodet

jbarrentine said:


> Anyone who gives into this is a fool. For the price of the HD700 and HD800 they should come packaged with these cables. The hifi world needs to learn when to say NO or the prices will just keep going up.


 
  
 +1
  
  
 Ok, maybe more 'foolish' than 'a fool', but you're right about the 'should come packaged'.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

canadian411 said:


> skyyyeman said:
> 
> 
> > For better sound than a Sennheiser stock cable and at a similar price, it would be far better to buy an after market premium cable from Moon Audio, ALO, etc.  The Senn cable is ok but on my HD800 when I replaced the stock cable with a Moon Audio Black Dragon cable, the sound was significantly improved -- more detail, transparency and bass.  Better overall.
> ...


 
 No one would, except in sighted testing when one is expecting the change. Been there. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 This balanced cable works perfectly for HD800 and doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221219807298?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

andrew_wot said:


> No one would, except in sighted testing when one is expecting the change. Been there.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 that cable is incredibly low quality (im not talking sound)
  
 It feels super cheap, the plugs don't fit the connectors in the hd800 properly and it's not very long at all
  
 IMO the CH800S is the nicest cable ive ever used for the hd800, yes the price is ridiculous, it should cost about $200 and even thats pushing it.


----------



## Skyyyeman

andrew_wot said:


> No one would, except in sighted testing when one is expecting the change. Been there.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Are you saying better cables don't matter re sound?  That improvements in sound are all in one's mind?   Strongly disagree, and I guess you're bringing up the ongoing cable debate which is strangely prevalent on this site but almost no where else in the world -- not amongst the manufacturers of equipment, manufacturers of cables, professional users in studios and elsewhere, musicians, reviewers both in print and online, and most audiophiles worldwide.  And that includes me.
  
 But you have your opinion and so be it.


----------



## mcandmar

oicwutudidthar said:


> that cable is incredibly low quality (im not talking sound)
> 
> It feels super cheap, the plugs don't fit the connectors in the hd800 properly and it's not very long at all
> 
> IMO the CH800S is the nicest cable ive ever used for the hd800, yes the price is ridiculous, it should cost about $200 and even thats pushing it.


 
  
 Actually, i found my HD650 version was very well made, and used genuine Neutrik connectors.  Or is it the protective outer sleeving you dont like?


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

mcandmar said:


> Actually, i found my HD650 version was very well made, and used genuine Neutrik connectors.  Or is it the protective outer sleeving you dont like?


 
  
 yes, i was referring to the sleeving, it feels very cheap to me. Also the two-pin plugs that connect to the hd800s were incredibly loose (to the point where sometimes if I moved my head, they  would fall out)


----------



## mcandmar

The only thing i don't like about the cable is its rigidity. It doesn't like to twist so it can be tricky to coil up, and will just uncoil itself like a spring when you let go.
   
I haven't had any issues with the HD600/650 connectors, but you could easily replace them, its not like snipping the ends off a $79 cable is the end of the world


----------



## MineTwine45

This may sound like the dumbest question ever asked, but what do balanced cables do exactly? (I'm a noob at all this high-end audio stuff right now)


----------



## PiNa.cz

minetwine45 said:


> This may sound like the dumbest question ever asked, but what do balanced cables do exactly? (I'm a noob at all this high-end audio stuff right now)


 
  
 There is a nice article at HeadRoom to start with:
  
http://www.headphone.com/learning-center/balanced-drive.php


----------



## Sherwood

A better resource (^^^) beat me to the answer


----------



## MineTwine45

pina.cz said:


> There is a nice article at HeadRoom to start with:
> 
> http://www.headphone.com/learning-center/balanced-drive.php


 
  
 Thank you much, I'll give it a read.


----------



## mcandmar

Short answer is you have a separate + and - wire running to each driver, usually wired to a 4pin XLR connector, or two 3 pins.  Vs a standard 3 pole headphone socket which only has a + to each driver, and then the two earth lines joined together.  Immediate benefit being complete channel separation and better noise rejection.
  
 Then it gets complicated as you have the option of a few different amplifier designs which will basically drive the - line as a mirror image of the +. But that's a whole other discussion..


----------



## .Sup

-1 to Sennheiser. Their stock HD800 cable costs 4 times less and can be reviewed to 4 pin balanced. And CH 650 costs as much as HD600.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

oicwutudidthar said:


> andrew_wot said:
> 
> 
> > No one would, except in sighted testing when one is expecting the change. Been there.
> ...


 
 It's very well build and sounds great, own one. Connectors are not loose, same fit as stock, the cleanest soldering I've seen (disassembled the plug), not sure I understand comment about length, it's 2.5 m, if you need longer get one, they have 6m I believe.
 Do a search on Zy cables here, it's elite cable builder well known all over China. You may have exposure to one of the earlier revisions perhaps, I've read that first version of HD650 had some lousy connectors, but that was fixed long time ago, not sure about HD800. In fact, I liked it so much that I ordered one for HD650 as well.
  
 And yes, unless there is bad soldering, some shorts or some other kind of the mechanical problem, any cable will sound the same. Add fancy braiding, some poetry filled manufacturer description, a couple of peer reviews, and all over sudden same cable material and geometry magically fixing bright treble on one phones and adding bass on another. 
  
 HD800, HD650 cables, same as T1, are balanced by nature, little DIY and you get balanced cable with SE dongle. 
  
 BTG Audio and Moon Audio are two others budget minded alternatives to Zy cable and DIY retermination. I dare anyone to tell the difference in unsighted ABX.


----------



## catspaw

tmraven said:


> 380 dollars for a cable...


 
  
  
 Insanity... Its a piece of copper inside a rubber envelope... I think that cable would be cheaper if it was made from pure 18K Gold...


----------



## harrinj

Haha those prices. It's just little metal wires!


----------



## squallkiercosa

Poor Rosmadi, should be pretty sad to see the company you work with, been bashed for awful marketing tactics. Who knows, maybe is on purpose, in a few months they will claim "30% discount" and everyone will be jumping...


----------



## HiFiGuy528

video is now live on my channel.


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

andrew_wot said:


> It's very well build and sounds great, own one. Connectors are not loose, same fit as stock, the cleanest soldering I've seen (disassembled the plug), not sure I understand comment about length, it's 2.5 m, if you need longer get one, they have 6m I believe.
> Do a search on Zy cables here, it's elite cable builder well known all over China. You may have exposure to one of the earlier revisions perhaps, I've read that first version of HD650 had some lousy connectors, but that was fixed long time ago, not sure about HD800. In fact, I liked it so much that I ordered one for HD650 as well.
> 
> And yes, unless there is bad soldering, some shorts or some other kind of the mechanical problem, any cable will sound the same. Add fancy braiding, some poetry filled manufacturer description, a couple of peer reviews, and all over sudden same cable material and geometry magically fixing bright treble on one phones and adding bass on another.
> ...


 
  
  
 Hmm, maybe it was just mine was defective? Still can't say I am a fan of the sleeving.


----------



## Canadian411

tvolpe1600 said:


> Cool! What kind of wire? (And what supplier did you use?)



 


You can get pretty decent 18 AWG OCC Copper 6N for about $2.50 per ft, that is for 1 feet with 16 conductor will cost you $40.
Making it reasonable length let's say 5 feet will do about $200. adding furutech connectors with the pair of HD800 connector, + sleeves heat shrink, $300. 

Now, you can go extreme, 18 AWG OCC Silver 6N,  that will cost you at least $2000 to cover 10 feet just on the material. 

But enough is enough, I don't think I can hear any sonic differences between 4N and 7N, etc.


----------



## skeptic

Just FYI, thick gage cable cannot be attached to the tiny hd800 connectors. This has led to some interesting discussion about alo cables and what must be going on under the heatshrink.


----------



## Canadian411

Yes I read that, I am aware  thanks !


----------



## LifeAspect

hifiguy528 said:


> video is now live on my channel.




 How is it exclusive when the cable been out for the past 2 months now?


----------



## Andrew_WOT

lifeaspect said:


> hifiguy528 said:
> 
> 
> > video is now live on my channel.
> ...




  
 All I see are standard cables reterminated with different plug. Do I miss something, is that where the cost is coming from, the plug?


----------



## LifeAspect

considering the replacement cable of sennheiser is about 170€, the added price goes to the plug and well...sennheiser. I couldn't do it myself and got the cable 2 months ago. Frankly, I am quite happy with it even if it would be way cheaper to do it myself if I knew how to solder.
  
 Is the price justified? Imo it kinda isn't, but it does get the full potential out of my HD800 when hooked up to the HDVD800 hooked @ Violectric V800 with balanced interconnects, so I am quite happy with it.


----------



## linglingjr

hifiguy528 said:


> video is now live on my channel.




  
 lol all I hear is "Very high quality" "Premium"  "These aren't terminated for your phone" < lmao it's an 11 minute video of you describing the same exact product 3 times.  NIce.


----------



## Canadian411

lifeaspect said:


> Is the price justified?...



 


Not sure, I think the factory cable is 28awg, not sure what grade they use (2N - 7N) or even what type.
But the factory cable is pretty much "normal" cable. If it drops by $150 cdn I will buy  finger crossed


----------



## devhen

Well I have the HD600 so I'm only interested in the CH 650 S. It looks like it is identical to the stock HD650 cable aside from the 4-pin XLR connector. The stock HD650 cable is $12.32 through Sennheiser's website. So I'm paying $227.63 for an XLR connector. No thanks.


----------



## Raptor34

devhen said:


> Well I have the HD600 so I'm only interested in the CH 650 S. It looks like it is identical to the stock HD650 cable aside from the 4-pin XLR connector. The stock HD650 cable is $12.32 through Sennheiser's website. So I'm paying $227.63 for an XLR connector. No thanks.


 

 Exactly!!    I bought a balanced cable from Headroom for my 650's for $99.00.  Stock cable with an Neutrix male XLR connector and female adapter cable.   Not the deal of the century but reasonable concidering  I needed it to use with my new amp. 
  
 Usual disclamers


----------



## elwappo99

linglingjr said:


> hifiguy528 said:
> 
> 
> > video is now live on my channel.
> ...




  
 I think the video implies the cables are different and a higher quality, and the commenter pretty clearly says a "premium cable" changes the sound quality of headphones....


----------



## linglingjr

elwappo99 said:


> I think the video implies the cables are different and a higher quality, and the commenter pretty clearly says a "premium cable" changes the sound quality of headphones....


 
 Yep, you're right.  I do remember him saying that!


----------



## Jupiterknight

My HD600 with a HD650 stock cable and a 4-pin XLR. Around $20 for the HD650 cable + $41 for the 4-pin XLR modification and the cable length decreased by one foot to suit my personal needs. Done by BTG-Audio. Total price = $61 give or take a few dollars...


----------



## benjaminhuypham

Where can you buy HD 650 cable for 12.50? I went over Sennheiser website and could not find it. Would you send me a link?


----------



## squallkiercosa

benjaminhuypham said:


> Where can you buy HD 650 cable for 12.50? I went over Sennheiser website and could not find it. Would you send me a link?




Check cable below adapter 
http://en-us.sennheiser.com/high-quality-headphones-around-ear-audio-surround-hd-650#accessories


----------



## benjaminhuypham

squallkiercosa said:


> Check cable below adapter
> http://en-us.sennheiser.com/high-quality-headphones-around-ear-audio-surround-hd-650#accessories


 
 Thanks Bro


----------



## mcandmar

squallkiercosa said:


> Check cable below adapter
> http://en-us.sennheiser.com/high-quality-headphones-around-ear-audio-surround-hd-650#accessories


 

 $5 wow, obviously not priced by the same accountant as the cables in the OP. The Grado one is nicer though


----------



## NightFlight

currawong said:


> That's the thing: People here who are going to buy an aftermarket balanced cable are going to get one from one of the small guys that doesn't have to double the price to allow for dealer margins, which is what I think is going on here.




Dealer cost is roughly half of retail and as a rule, mfg costs half of that.


----------



## devhen

benjaminhuypham said:


> Where can you buy HD 650 cable for 12.50? I went over Sennheiser website and could not find it. Would you send me a link?


 
  
 http://en-us.sennheiser.com/cable-hd-650


----------



## AHorseNamedJeff

I wonder how Sennheiser feels seeing 90%+ people saying that this was a dumb move (pricing wise), when its usually 90%+ saying that whatever they just released is great.....
  
 GG Sennheiser.


----------



## GoldfishX

ahorsenamedjeff said:


> I wonder how Sennheiser feels seeing 90%+ people saying that this was a dumb move (pricing wise), when its usually 90%+ saying that whatever they just released is great.....
> 
> GG Sennheiser.


 
  
 Probably the same as the lukewarm response to the HD700...One of the more unpopular headphones I've read about.


----------



## catspaw

Sennheiser could probably make the HD800 at a 1000 dollar price (to be more competitive with the LCD2) and the HD700 at around 600 dollars, but they priced them higher. Unfortunatelly, cables are "just" cables after all, so the extra price does not sugest better quality.
  
 Also, its the same cable but the prices are different for the HD650, the HD700 and the HD800. 
  
 One thing i dont quite get. Balanced cables means the headphone is balanced? Or as long as the cable is balanced the headphone is too?


----------



## harrinj

This is still hilarious. Now what exactly commands the high price with these cables, is it the plastic balanced plug at the end with the Sennheiser logo? Personally I think if you are paying $1,000-$1,500 on headphones you should be able to get one free when they are out if you bought the HD700/800 and they should be included in the package of those headphones from now on, BUT we don't live in that type of world do we. :/ I would charge no more than $60 for these I mean hell it probably costs senn pennies on the dollar to make (not literally but you get the point) after all it's just wire/rubber skin and a plastic balanced plug.


----------



## harrinj

catspaw said:


> Sennheiser could probably make the HD800 at a 1000 dollar price (to be more competitive with the LCD2) and the HD700 at around 600 dollars, but they priced them higher. Unfortunatelly, cables are "just" cables after all, so the extra price does not sugest better quality.
> 
> Also, its the same cable but the prices are different for the HD650, the HD700 and the HD800.
> 
> One thing i dont quite get. Balanced cables means the headphone is balanced? Or as long as the cable is balanced the headphone is too?


 
 The HD700 is $649 on Amazon and the HD800 $1,349 now. the HD800 was even cheaper the other day but it always seems to fluctuate in price on amazon. I have no idea why.


----------



## catspaw

harrinj said:


> The HD700 is $649 on Amazon and the HD800 $1,349 now. the HD800 was even cheaper the other day but it always seems to fluctuate in price on amazon. I have no idea why.


 
 Yeah well, Online in Poland I can get the HD700 is 765 Dollars and HD800 is 1647 Dollars. And thats internet store price.
 Dont know how amazon operates In Poland but im quite sure that if I am "importing" those headphones, customs would have something to say about that.


----------



## AHorseNamedJeff

catspaw said:


> Sennheiser could probably make the HD800 at a 1000 dollar price (to be more competitive with the LCD2) and the HD700 at around 600 dollars, but they priced them higher. Unfortunatelly, cables are "just" cables after all, so the extra price does not sugest better quality.
> 
> Also, its the same cable but the prices are different for the HD650, the HD700 and the HD800.
> 
> One thing i dont quite get. Balanced cables means the headphone is balanced? Or as long as the cable is balanced the headphone is too?



The HD6xx,700,&800 all have dual entry which means they have capability for both single-ended or balanced. Other 'phones like the V-MODA M100, while having two input sockets, are still single entry. The Audezes are dual entry the same way the Senn's are.


----------



## catspaw

Oh, thats actually quite a good thing. In that case, can you have a cable that is ended for balanced and have an adapted for single ended?
 That would actually rock.


----------



## AHorseNamedJeff

catspaw said:


> Oh, thats actually quite a good thing. In that case, can you have a cable that is ended for balanced and have an adapted for single ended?
> That would actually rock.



Yep!! Imagine:
(Headphones dual entry)>===<(XLR plug(s), 2 three prong or 1 four prong)=(adapter)>--(single TRS 1/4" jack)---(headphone jack on amp)


----------



## catspaw

Great, thx for the info. Now to look for balanced DAC/AMP.


----------



## AHorseNamedJeff

catspaw said:


> Great, thx for the info. Now to look for balanced DAC/AMP.


The Schiit Mjolnir/Gungnir setup blew me away with the Alpha Dogs. What 'phones are you using?


----------



## catspaw

Currently Hifiman HE-400 but im looking at buying the HD800. 
 I like the Asgard a lot that i have, so I trust Schiit for gungnir and Mjolnir. THe only problem is the prices in Poland (its almost twice the price as in USA).
  
 Still, ill keep looking, maybe I can find another way to get them.


----------



## Rob80b

benjaminhuypham said:


> Where can you buy HD 650 cable for 12.50? I went over Sennheiser website and could not find it. Would you send me a link?


 
  
 Quote:


devhen said:


> http://en-us.sennheiser.com/cable-hd-650


 
And, apparently the part # 83380 Replacement Cable for the Sennheiser HD477/HD497/HD212Pro for $8.71 fits the HD700, looks about the same quality as the original 650 cable, throw on a $4 four pin XLR and your set to go.  Although as many have mentioned, it would have been nice to have the Balanced OEM included with the phones.


----------



## greenkiwi

ahorsenamedjeff said:


> Yep!! Imagine:
> (Headphones dual entry)>===<(XLR plug(s), 2 three prong or 1 four prong)=(adapter)>--(single TRS 1/4" jack)---(headphone jack on amp)


 
 That is exactly what I have.  I had the original HD650 cables, I cut them about 1 foot up and inserted both a male and female 4 pin XLR connectors.  Then if I'm listening to a SE amp, I use the adapter to get back to signal ended.  Cost about $15 total.


----------



## AHorseNamedJeff

greenkiwi said:


> ahorsenamedjeff said:
> 
> 
> > Yep!! Imagine:
> ...


Awesome man, that's his toy do it. I'm thinking later down the line I'm gonna re-terminate my Grados to two XLR jacks and have adapters for both speaker terminals and 1/4" TRS.


----------



## Rob80b

greenkiwi said:


> That is exactly what I have.  I had the original HD650 cables, I cut them about 1 foot up and inserted both a male and female 4 pin XLR connectors.  Then if I'm listening to a SE amp, I use the adapter to get back to signal ended.  Cost about $15 total.


 
 Just to add... the fine copper strands on the Senn cables are coated so that will need to be removed, otherwise the soldering will not adhere.
 I found that very fine grade emery cloth does an excellent job.
  
 Haven’t a photo of the Senns cable but here’s a $10 job on my K701s as an example.

 Still it would be nice to have Senn's OEM blanced cable (as they do look nice) for my HD700s which are on route, but they're not in the budget so it's always nice to have an inexpensive alternative to tide one over.


----------



## Rob80b

double post


----------



## stormmilk

faverodefavero said:


>


 
 Cannot agree with you more. The price is crazy.


----------



## greenkiwi

rob80b said:


> Just to add... the fine copper strands on the Senn cables are coated so that will need to be removed, otherwise the soldering will not adhere.
> I found that very fine grade emery cloth does an excellent job.
> 
> Haven’t a photo of the Senns cable but here’s a $10 job on my K701s as an example.
> ...


 
  
 I did it a while ago and can't remember exactly how I cleaned them.  I remember it was a bit of a PITA.  I'm guessing someone here has a really good way of doing it.


----------



## eugenius

I personally replaced two Sennheiser HD800 jacks. Let's hope their XLR is better made, that's all I'm saying ...


----------



## Xabiere Lee

Hi I just wanted ask what is so magnificent about these cables,
 will they enhance the sound quality of my Sennheiser headphones?


----------



## RichardH09

xabiere lee said:


> Hi I just wanted ask what is so magnificent about these cables,
> will they enhance the sound quality of my Sennheiser headphones?


 
 Most likely not. Balanced cables are really for better shielding in environments prone to interference.
 But it gives audiophools another thing to waste their money on.


----------



## Rob80b

richardh09 said:


> Most likely not. Balanced cables are really for better shielding in environments prone to interference.
> But it gives audiophools another thing to waste their money on.


 
  
  


xabiere lee said:


> Hi I just wanted ask what is so magnificent about these cables,
> will they enhance the sound quality of my Sennheiser headphones?


 
 If the connectors and the wire are of a superior quality to what is currently being used then maybe it's possible there may be a better transmission of electrical current, also a balanced configuration might reduce any possible crosstalk at the common ground with unbalanced cable.
 If the manufacturer of the head-amp focused more importance on the design of a completely balanced configuration and the unbalanced output was only thrown in as an after thought for convenience then one may discover a balanced cable exposes the full potential of a balanced input signal, but other than that the increased gain from the balanced output, (which may have many believing there is an improvement in sound quality as even a slight dB difference can make a huge "psycho-acoustic' difference), there should be little if any dissimilarity when using the unbalanced headphone socket.
 Balanced cables between active components can in some set-ups make a big difference with a reduced noise floor due to electrical interference but has little effect IMHO on headphones or speakers.
  
 The connectors do look nice though.


----------



## Rob80b

double post


----------



## musikaladin

kurochin said:


> If you guys think cables made by a headphone company are overpriced, just wait till you see prices of headphones made by a cable company...... *cough... JPS Abyss... cough*


 
 ...._monster_....errrr...._cable_...?


----------



## musikaladin

richardh09 said:


> xabiere lee said:
> 
> 
> > Hi I just wanted ask what is so magnificent about these cables,
> ...



...right, balanced is definitely an advantage in a studio environment especially for weaker signals as mics or for bridging longer distances in an environment with a lot of crossfeeding equipment around.


----------



## elwappo99

richardh09 said:


> Most likely not. Balanced cables are really for better shielding in environments prone to interference.
> But it gives audiophools another thing to waste their money on.


 
  
 I don't think you understand the difference between general audio "balanced" and the way it gets used in the headphone realm. Your condescending tone over it doesn't help your case either.


----------



## mcandmar

Stop feeding the obvious troll..


----------



## Mambosenior

CharlestonCable made me an excellent quality HD-800 4-pin balanced cable (Canare) for $150. If one insists on the ultra-maxi-shmaltzy level cables, they offer those as well. They've made me balanced cables for all my headphones.
  
 DISCLAIMER: I am only a long-time satisfied customer and have no financial interest in this company.
  
 http://www.charlestoncablecompany.com/store/p27/Sennheiser_HD_800_Headphone_Cable_--_Canare.html


----------



## Steve Eddy

elwappo99 said:


> I don't think you understand the difference between general audio "balanced" and the way it gets used in the headphone realm.




Really, there shouldn't have to be a difference for anyone to understand. It should mean the same thing in the headphone realm as it means in the rest of the audio realm. Co-opting a term that has had a specific meaning for over a century and using it to mean something different makes the headphone realm look a bit backwaterish. 

se


----------



## musikaladin

steve eddy said:


> elwappo99 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think you understand the difference between general audio "balanced" and the way it gets used in the headphone realm.
> ...




... right. electrically it makes no difference at all whether we talk about a front-end as i.e. a microphone or a turntable-pick-up (conducted in a balanced way to a balanced RIAA pre-amp), or in-between other audio equipment along the way, or a rear-end as a connection to a headphone.... the basic principles of "real balanced" always remain the same... Only if we talk about "active balanced ground" it would be a slightly different story then (...different concerning the way it works; the effect is still the sane...).

In my setup I found balanced connections most useful for MC pickups since their signals can be so very "weak", that a proper balanced connection on the way to the pre-amp was having a very positive effect.... also on the long way from pre-amp to my active loudspeakers I definitely prefer balanced.

But frankly, with those relatively strong headphone signals I wasn't really able to hear significant improvement between balanced or not, as long as both cables were of comparable quality (material copper or silver a.s.o.) and the amp's single ended output was on par with with the balanced output... 

...and just to anticipate those "_a balanced headphone cabling must always & necessarily be superior_" advocates and protectionists... no, I am not deaf... yet...


----------



## Headzone

I asked my engineer uncle what he thinks about balanced headphone cables, and he looked at me a bit weird. He didn't know such things existed, and couldn't see why they would be any better than regular headphone cables. 
  
 Balanced preamp is completely different story though.


----------



## drez

If your headphone amplifier is designed to be balanced, using it single ended is counterintuitive - why buy a balanced amplifier in the first place (often they cost more than single ended equivalent)?  In any case I would not buy one of these knowing that there are many third party cable makers who can make lighter, more attractive cables using higher quality materials for the same money or less.  Just IMHO.


----------



## elwappo99

drez said:


> If your headphone amplifier is designed to be balanced, using it single ended is counterintuitive - why buy a balanced amplifier in the first place (often they cost more than single ended equivalent)?  In any case I would not buy one of these knowing that there are many third party cable makers who can make lighter, more attractive cables using higher quality materials for the same money or less.  Just IMHO.


 
  
 Certainly agree. If your balanced amplifier has a SE and 4 pin XLR output you're not getting your money's worth (so to speak) by only using in SE. But for some people, they'll use the amplifier single ended, and when their budget allows get a new cable. Heck, with this price, it could be a major budget consideration! 
  
  


steve eddy said:


> Really, there shouldn't have to be a difference for anyone to understand. It should mean the same thing in the headphone realm as it means in the rest of the audio realm. Co-opting a term that has had a specific meaning for over a century and using it to mean something different makes the headphone realm look a bit backwaterish.
> 
> se


 
  
 Agreed. It was a very confusing concept for me to grasp the first go around. "But ... headphones.... where's the ground?!?!"
  
 On the other hand, if only that naming convention makes us look backwaterish, I think we're doing pretty well for ourselves


----------



## Armaegis

steve eddy said:


> Really, there shouldn't have to be a difference for anyone to understand. It should mean the same thing in the headphone realm as it means in the rest of the audio realm. Co-opting a term that has had a specific meaning for over a century and using it to mean something different makes the headphone realm look a bit backwaterish.
> 
> se


 
  
 "Fully Differential" is a much cooler buzzword than than "balanced" anyways.


----------



## tintin220

As a scientist, it's really refreshing to see the community growing less superstitious over the years. Though everyone is entitled to their own opinions, I've observed "fads" and misinformation come and go, and it seems the days of grossly overpriced cables might be ending soon.
  
 Contrarily, it's a major disappointment that a big name manufacturer like Sennheiser would come in and try to exploit this dying craze. They lost some respect from me after artificially inflating prices a few years ago on their headphones and now they've lost a lot more.


----------



## tintin220

rob80b said:


> If the connectors and the wire are of a superior quality to what is currently being used then maybe it's possible there may be a better transmission of electrical current, also a balanced configuration might reduce any possible crosstalk at the common ground with unbalanced cable.
> ...
> Balanced cables between active components can in some set-ups make a big difference with a reduced noise floor due to electrical interference but has little effect IMHO on headphones or speakers.
> 
> The connectors do look nice though.


 
  
 I'm not convinced that in many (read: most) cases, this is even measurable let alone audible to human ears. Impedance matching might be the most measurable scenario, and again, the audibility of this is *extremely* questionable. But you're right, they are sexy. Just not hundreds of dollars sexy. They build quality seems good but if I want a robust cable, I'd rather put my money into supporting an independent community cable maker.


----------



## derp4life

really? 300+ just for a cable?? with the price of three of those you could almost buy a HD800 already!


----------



## vinokurov

I have this cable and I find it excellent. Unfortunately, I can not compare it with other balanced cables so my opinion is not very weightier but I know the difference between the stock unbalanced cable and CH800S and the difference is very noticeable. I use Sennheiser HDVA600 with Benchmark DAC1.


----------



## alejandro7

Hey Bros and Dudettes:  Just say NO!  Buy your cables after market and save your do$h for music!  Sez Alejandro


----------



## Raptor34

alejandro7 said:


> Hey Bros and Dudettes:  Just say NO!  Buy your cables after market and save your do$h for music!  Sez Alejandro


 

 Huh?  Have you seen the prices of after market cables lately?    Right up there with the majors if you ask me.   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




    Ok, you didn't ask me


----------



## Armaegis

Aftermarket cables can be dirt cheap or ridiculously expensive. Regular wire and noname connectors? Cheap as borscht. Furutech connectors with silver wire, individually sleeved 8 wire braid and engraved splitters? Well you'd be looking at dropping some good coin on that.


----------



## alejandro7

Well you and others are abs right ! The aftermarket Zu's and Moon Audio's are indeed costly tweeks. Then the $20 jobs look ominously inferior. I have a pair of ancient HD 420s which I would like to soup up with better SQ cables. Any suggestions? Thanks


----------



## nos024

I don't get what is so special about these "balanced" cables?  Isn't the term "balanced" audio is just a method and can be achieved with 1/4" TRS plug or XLR?  e.g in-phase hot signal and out of phase cold signal?  
  
 My understanding of a balanced audio signal is this:  a balanced audio signal is fed into an input (typically a transformer/differential), the differential detects the difference in the signal difference between the two different phase signals and rejects any hum or noise.  And typically, balanced cables are used for long runs of microphones because of this?  Someone please explain the difference between a balanced audio signal and a balanced headphone cable?  To me, it would be more critical and makes more sense, if you are connecting the pre-amp to the amp with a balanced cable.  Correct me if I am wrong?  To me, these cables just allows you to plug into an XLR type connector.


----------



## alejandro7

I'm an audiophool, a critical listener, and a jazz addict. I have no idea about why we need a balanced or unbalanced (sic) cable from or to headphones. I just know what my ears like to hear. I've always preferred the ease of single ended (RCA) hi fi gear. So I'll get out of the way here.   alejandro


----------



## Armaegis

In the headphone world, "balanced" is very different from the definition in the pro audio world. It's frankly really dumb and only promotes confusion of the term. With headphones, balanced essentially means four conductors instead of three so that the headphone can be used with an amp that has a non-shared ground between the left and right channels. Originally the term may have been used properly, but it's been dumbed down since then.
  
 In the correct usage, it has to do with the hot and cold having equal impedances relative to ground. The signal is differential, not necessarily inverted (though typically is). Ugh not explaining well. It's 5am and I'm way too tired. I'll let someone else step in.


----------



## kurt bermuda

You don't need balanced cable for a 10' length of cable.
  
 Balanced cable starting at $240? That's ridiculous. Ridiculous? Actually it's insulting. With pricing like that, Sennheiser must think consumers are dumb.


----------



## Steve58

Sennheiser is trying the "Audiofool" market. Am sure they will do well out of it.​


----------



## kurt bermuda

Head-Fi and many of it's members excel at confusing people. This place hurts people's understanding of engineering as much as it helps.
  
 I'm convinced it has to do with the sounding of the two words "balanced" and "unbalanced". "Balanced" sounds good, less bad, and less risky. Humans don't like that stuff and when they hear those words their irrational/animal brains don't react to them well. Marketers know this. "Unbalanced" sounds bad, risky, and not as good as "balanced".
  
 Read Wikipedia's "balanced" cable entry. It does a good job at explaining the engineering behind "balanced". It was developed for long cable runs, snaked cable runs, heavy duty use (show and stage use), and grouped cable runs. Yes, you can use "balanced" cable for a 10' length, but it's unnecessary.


----------



## Steve Eddy

The first "balanced" headphone amplifier was just a bridged amplifier, i.e. two separate amplifiers per channel with their outputs bridged. But instead of it being appropriately called a bridged amplifier, it was called a "balanced" amplifier, and that misleading and misappropriate term has been used ever since. It didn't have anything to do with marketing and the sound of the two words, but rather simple lack of understanding.

se


----------



## alejandro7

Yes to that Steve58! Why should I spend that much for adequate shorter Senn type HP cables for mobile or travel use? I see plenty of virtuoso small shop cable makers on net or ebay who are willing to do the soldering and wire buying I haven't time or skill to create...and charge me under $100. It's just a good OFC cable I need with good connectors, after all. Why not?  There I've had my cable dump.    alejandro


----------



## Armaegis

steve eddy said:


> The first "balanced" headphone amplifier was just a bridged amplifier, i.e. two separate amplifiers per channel with their outputs bridged. But instead of it being appropriately called a bridged amplifier, it was called a "balanced" amplifier, and that misleading and misappropriate term has been used ever since. It didn't have anything to do with marketing and the sound of the two words, but rather simple lack of understanding.
> 
> se


 
  
 So in other words, we get to blame Tyll for this whole mess ...


----------



## Steve Eddy

armaegis said:


> So in other words, we get to blame Tyll for this whole mess ...


 
  
 I didn't say anything. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 se


----------



## Steve58

I have heard on the grape vine that for only $95 extra, Sennheiser can supply factory "burnt in" cables saves you having to do it yourself.​


----------



## AladdinSane

You're a bad man Steve58. I mean that in the best possible way.


----------



## cskippy

Wow!  I bought my HD650 for less than the HD800 cable...so sad.


----------



## linglingjr

steve58 said:


> I have heard on the grape vine that for only $95 extra, Sennheiser can supply factory "burnt in" cables saves you having to do it yourself.​


 
 lmao, yeah I heard that too.  Burnt in using only the highest quality pink noise at optimum volume.


----------



## parbaked

Has anyone determined for certain if the new balanced cable is any different from the SE HD650 cable, other than the connectors?
 Does the stock HD650 cable also have " Four leads configured as two straight pairs made of copper (OFC)."?
 Thanks!
  
 Sennheiser CH 650 S:

Four leads configured as two straight pairs made of copper (OFC).
Length is 3m (around 10 feet).
Termination is 4-pin XLR.
Weight is 95g (3.35 oz).
Price is $239.95


----------



## Austin Morrow

mambosenior said:


> CharlestonCable made me an excellent quality HD-800 4-pin balanced cable (Canare) for $150. If one insists on the ultra-maxi-shmaltzy level cables, they offer those as well. They've made me balanced cables for all my headphones.
> 
> DISCLAIMER: I am only a long-time satisfied customer and have no financial interest in this company.
> 
> http://www.charlestoncablecompany.com/store/p27/Sennheiser_HD_800_Headphone_Cable_--_Canare.html




Another fine company as well, I have one for my HE-500's.


----------



## Skyyyeman

austin morrow said:


> Another fine company as well, I have one for my HE-500's.


 
 OK, but understand that Canare cable is a good but basic cable used mostly in the pro audio world and selling for about $1 a foot or so for the raw cable (unterminated).  My experience with Canare was that it was good but exceeded in quality (sound quality) by higher end brands.


----------



## aclacour

skyyyeman said:


> OK, but understand that Canare cable is a good but basic cable used mostly in the pro audio world and selling for about $1 a foot or so for the raw cable (unterminated).  My experience with Canare was that it was good but exceeded in quality (sound quality) by higher end brands.


 
 You are correct on all those points, there are certainly higher quality cables available.  But if somebody doesn't want to buy that big boy cable at least the Canare keeps the cost down.  You're basically paying for the labor.  A lot of people just want a different connector or something a little more durable than stock


----------



## parbaked

aclacour said:


> You're basically paying for the labor.


 
 Labor and the cost to stock or special order all the different connector options. 
 Another factor to the high cost of boutique cables is that their customers demand boutique connectors, which can also be costly.
 They need to make a profit on this use of capital as well.


----------



## parbaked

skyyyeman said:


> OK, but understand that Canare cable is a good but basic cable used mostly in the pro audio world and selling for about $1 a foot or so for the raw cable (unterminated).  My experience with Canare was that it was good but exceeded in quality (sound quality) by higher end brands.


 
 There are more expensive cables but they may not be "better" for this application where weight, flexibility and microphonics are all critical, not to mention the ability to solder well in mini connectors. IMO a sophisticated cable is not ideal for headphones if it is stiff, heavy, hard to solder into small connectors or subject to noise.


----------



## Skyyyeman

parbaked said:


> There are more expensive cables but they may not be "better" for this application where weight, flexibility and microphonics are all critical, not to mention the ability to solder well in mini connectors. IMO a sophisticated cable is not ideal for headphones if it is stiff, heavy, hard to solder into small connectors or subject to noise.


 
 I was referring to sound quality not the other characteristics.  That said, some of the other higher end cables don't necessarily have to be stiff, heavy, subject to noise, etc.


----------



## parbaked

skyyyeman said:


> I was referring to sound quality not the other characteristics.  That said, some of the other higher end cables don't necessarily have to be stiff, heavy, subject to noise, etc.


 
 It is hard to enjoy the sound quality if a cable is heavy, noisy or stiff. The best/worst cable i had was a DHC with techflex that you could hear scratch every time you moved. My point is only that headphone cables are subject to different use than any other audio cables = we move around - and that is a critical factor. The stock Senn cables while either inexpensive and cheap looking (SE) or overpriced and cheap looking (Balanced) are at least long, quiet, flexible and practical. Some of the exotic cables are cumbersome at the same useful 3M length IME


----------



## aclacour

skyyyeman said:


> I was referring to sound quality not the other characteristics.


 
*Mambosenior *could probably offer an unbiased opinion since he has one of the Canare 800 cables.  In my opinion a cable made with Canare will usually exceed or at least equal most stock cables in sound quality.


----------



## parbaked

aclacour said:


> *Mambosenior *could probably offer an unbiased opinion since he has one of the Canare 800 cables.  In my opinion a cable made with Canare will usually exceed or at least equal most stock cables in sound quality.


 
 I agree that one can make great cables with pro/studio components ie. Canare, Mogami, Neutrik. 
 These cables can also be customized in terms of length and connectors so one ends up with a more enjoyable product than stock.
 I have found more exotic cables often come with some compromise (value, weight, stiffness, noise etc) that compromises their performance for headphones.


----------



## alejandro7

I am chuffed and want to try out a short Auric/Audience HD650 cable from Charleston Cable Co. Ready to go portable with older HD420s.
 Thanks for the lead.  Alex


----------



## inasafeplace

Cause they know some people mare stupid enough to buy them.


----------



## alejandro7

So soon I'll have a new Auric (midprice) shorter cable from C3. When I get back to NZ in Feb I'll try it on older HD420s and 650s as well. The older Cardas 10 footer was too much to leg around my CPU sound card out to NICO's V4. Wonder how it will compare SQ. More news at Eleven.  Listen to more Jazz.          Alejandro


----------



## Rob80b

Does anyone know off hand how Senn attach their wires, regular soldering, cold welded…?
  
 HD700 thread
 Quote:


rob80b said:


> While waiting for my 700s to return from Sennheiser I ordered the ingredients to complete up my balanced cable, one Neutrik 4 pin gold xlr, Lunashops HD700 micro mini jacks and some quad core Canare mic cable, so basically similar to my HD580/600 cable.
> 
> 
> Long story short I came across an original  Sennheiser HD700 OEM cable on ebay for a silly price while waiting for my jacks from China and just put the Neutrik on that one.
> ...


----------



## Dadracer

I'm listening to my HD 800s and comparing the standard cable to the CH800s cable (loan from dealer) via auralic taurus (and valves and vinyl). So whats the problem? I am not an expert but it sounds to me like the balanced cables give more of the same in terms of clarity, sounstage and so forth so where is the downside????  I would be quite happy with these.......


----------



## alejandro7

Not sure why this thread came my way...but I am chuffed with my 6' Auric/Audience HD650 cable from Charleston Cable. It's heavy but still has portability and the sound trumps stock cable by miles and is more alive than the 10' Cardas Blue I got 4 years ago with my 650s. SQ is robust, detailed to the 9s and allows bass definition unlike anything I've yet heard with this fine 'phone. The owner is very high on customer service. Buy through his own site. He'll tailor the ends to meet your needs. Gave me a good deal too!   alejandro


----------



## Hellenback

catspaw said:


> Great, thx for the info. Now to look for balanced DAC/AMP.


 

 Take a look at the Matrix Mini-i pro http://www.matrix-digi.com/en/products/59/index.html 
  
 If you don't need DSD even last years model (which I've been using happily) is a decent, less expensive model, albeit with a 16/48 USB limit.
  
 The new 2014 standard and pro have a USB capability of 24bit/384kHz PCM as well as a better headphone amp. The Mini-i pro is also DSD capable.
  
 If I had the cash I'd buy either the pro (ESS SABRE Ultra ES9016) or the new standard Mini-i (2X AD1955 but no DSD). Worth a look at least.
 <br />


----------



## alejandro7

Good on ya Hellenback. ME, I want a DAC w/o a built-in amp...the Neco V4 meets all my needs for a portability and my Lil Dot 1+ for the main room where rest of hifi rig sits and I want music without big speakers on. So if you or another reader can recommend a DAC or DAP (less likely) without a built-in amp...I will be chuffed to search out. And for me also: DSD will be very important.     Thanks,  alejandro


----------



## hughscot

IMHO expensive cables for Headphones or speakers is total BS.  Here is the definitive work on the subject.  http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#introduction
  
 I used to subscribe to Stereophile magazine and when they first started hyping high priced cables I stopped.  It is all marketing.


----------



## hughscot

If someone wants to spend a fortune on cable wire here's the ultimate.  
  
*Expensive Wire and Insulators*​


----------



## hughscot

And if you have some money left over you'd better get several of these.


----------



## cpygui

hughscot said:


> And if you have some money left over you'd better get several of these.


 
 That's hilarious


----------



## skeptic

but wait, you haven't heard the sonic purity your rig really has to offer until you pay out for a: http://www.lessloss.com/blackbody-p-200.html


----------



## TsukiNick

The wires crowd is so sadly misinformed.  That money is better spent on ....anything else.


----------



## aclacour

tsukinick said:


> The wires crowd is so sadly misinformed.  That money is better spent on ....anything else.


----------



## younglee200

I actually think I rather spend my money on cables than that Blackbody instrument or a $4686 power conditioning unit from that website.


----------



## hughscot

Speaking of wasting money I know someone who had a super audio set-up and he was so concerned about the electricity he had the power company run a dedicated line into his house just for the audio.


----------



## cantastic

hi folks,
 Does one need to use the CH650S with a Sennheiser headphone amp, or is the cable compatible with a Sony PHA-1, which I'm thinking of getting.
 many thanks,
 paul


----------



## elwappo99

cantastic said:


> hi folks,
> Does one need to use the CH650S with a Sennheiser headphone amp, or is the cable compatible with a Sony PHA-1, which I'm thinking of getting.
> many thanks,
> paul


 
  
 Paul,
  
 I assume you have the HD650 or HD600? If that is the case you need an adapter that looks like this:
  

  
 Unless you have that smaller connector on your cable.  This cable is for a "4 Pin XLR" connection. Some amplifiers require this connection. The HVD 800 has a "4 pin XLR" to connect to it, to get the full power out of the amplifier (see the black circles here)


----------



## Widell

I started laughing in my office when I saw this one, you got to be kidding me......then I saw the below "Blackbody Ambient Field Conditioner" and I felt like crying, are we audio enthusiasts really this naiv?


----------



## HiSenn5

hughscot said:


> And if you have some money left over you'd better get several of these.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## SilverEars

hughscot said:


> IMHO expensive cables for Headphones or speakers is total BS.  Here is the definitive work on the subject.  http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#introduction
> 
> I used to subscribe to Stereophile magazine and when they first started hyping high priced cables I stopped.  It is all marketing.


 
 Wow, article from Director of Audio Research at McIntosh.  Very nice that even high-end audio system designers don't think cables affects are negligible.
  
 Anyway, thanks for you posts, you have nice collection of AudioPhooey.


----------



## cantastic

many thanks for your response.  I have the HD650, still burning them in but liking them so far.  But I have just the Sony PHA-1 headphone amp, so at the moment the Sennheiser Cable doesn't work for me.  What is a good source for the adapter you mentioned?
 again,
 thanks!
 paul


----------



## elwappo99

cantastic said:


> many thanks for your response.  I have the HD650, still burning them in but liking them so far.  But I have just the Sony PHA-1 headphone amp, so at the moment the Sennheiser Cable doesn't work for me.  What is a good source for the adapter you mentioned?
> again,
> thanks!
> paul


 
  
 Hey Paul! 
  
 Your question gets a little off the scope of this thread. I'd recommend asking in the HD650 dedicated thread:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/197776/sennheiser-hd650-appreciation-thread/17400


----------



## lannik

... for a STOCK cable $300 is too expensive, and people got lots of substitute on this price range.


----------



## TMRaven

lannik said:


> ... for a STOCK cable $300 is too expensive, and people got lots of substitute on this price range.


 
  
 Are you insinuating that a stock cable has to be relegated to a cheaply made cable?  Regardless if it's stock OR aftermarket, a cable shouldn't cost 300 dollars.


----------



## Incompetency

If cables just change the sound signature, why not buy a better amp or get your headphones layered with craft gold?


----------



## Golden mark

why are you so reach!!!


----------



## RadioWonder737

Termination is 4-pin XLR... Wish I could use Balanced Cables for my HD 600...


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## alejandro7

Seriously loving my after market Charleston Cable for my HD650s...Sennheiser is just trying to suck the life out of us HeadFiers!!! Why does this happen? Greedy b'tards.  alejandro


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## Listen123

I skimmed this thread and see a lot of complaining about the price. Has anybody compared these to the unbalanced stock HD800 cable in a blind listening test?


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## prot

I find it mighty amusing that so many people complain about the prices. 

Yes they are outrageous but isn't this the forum that supports and promotes aftermarket cables in the $300+ category? And where hundreds of people criticize Sennheiser and others for the supposed "low quality" of their reasonably priced and perfectly good stock cables?

Well, you just got what you asked for. Enjoy!


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## prot

currawong said:


> That's the thing: People here who are going to buy an aftermarket balanced cable are going to get one from one of the small guys that doesn't have to double the price to allow for dealer margins, which is what I think is going on here.




Why is everyone so happy with those "small guys"? (the Q is mostly rethorical).

 According to my calculations they don't double the price, they go 5x and more. Here's a recipe for a 1m silver cable:

1. $80 for the wire. You need 4 wires and if you braid it they have to be longer than 1m. Let's be generous with 4x1.5m=6m of silver wire. A 22-24awg wire costs about $15 per metre.

2. $10 for the teflon isolation. It costs less than $1/m from ebay but let's be generous again. 

3. $10 for the cable splitter. That would be a very nice wood splitter, otherwise you can have perfectly good ones for $1-2. 

4. $50 for connectors. Again very generous .. a very nice Viablue 3.5mm connector costs about $20 and the Sennheiser headphone connectors are $10 or less per pair. 

5. 5$ for solder. Again generous ..a bottle of super silver solder costs about $30 and it's enough for hundreds of cables. 

So, the silver cable BOM adds up to $155. That is for a super cable with already *very* generous prices for each part ... and prices that any normal dude can find online, no bulk-discounts included. 

Try to buy one of those from those super nice small guys. It costs over $400, most of them are actually in the $500-2000 territory. 

Redo that BOM for an OFC cable with $5/m (again very generous) and you get less than $100.. prolly less than $50 for a standard OFC cable. Sold by the "nice" guys for $200+. 

Very nice & friendly guys indeed.


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## Currawong

Sennheiser will make and sell their cables for a certain price to the dealers, who then will sell it for double.
  
 The small guys will make and sell their cables direct.


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## prot

currawong said:


> Sennheiser will make and sell their cables for a certain price to the dealers, who then will sell it for double.
> 
> The small guys will make and sell their cables direct.




Sennheiser's BOM for those cables is surely way less than $50. They makke more than double and the dealers too. That's pretty much stealing. But it doesn't mean we should praise the little guys who do exactly the same. Plus, they started this ridiculous "trend" of cables that cost more than the headphones. 
The only chance we have as consumers is to show all those companies the proverbial and well deserved stick for shamelessly exploiting people's hobby. Judging by those cable prices those people must think that anyone who buys a nice headphone is a dumb schmuck who deserves to be robbed.


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## cooperpwc

This is a silly thread. Endless prattling by teenagers who have never run a business and have zero concept of the relationship between cost of materials and profitability, the different business models to potentially get there, the risks involved, the opportunity cost for time and money (especially for the small entrepreneur) etc. And this doesn't even touch on marketing.
  
 Just silly.


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## prot

cooperpwc said:


> This is a silly thread. Endless prattling by teenagers who have never run a business and have zero concept of the relationship between cost of materials and profitability, the different business models to potentially get there, the risks involved, the opportunity cost for time and money (especially for the small entrepreneur) etc. And this doesn't even touch on marketing.
> 
> Just silly.




1. Who are those teenagers?
2. How about entlightening us on all that business-related stuff you seem to know so well? E.g. please explain how it is fair to ask $300+ for a cable with a $30 BOM

Cheers.


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## LFC_SL

It is a capitalist world and profit is not the ugly word it may be to some. Even charities pay their executives handsomely. 

You appear reluctant to address cooper's post, which is odd as you raised the subject. Outline to the forum the business plan. The pitch to the bank manager how to make a viable business out of charging 31 bucks for raw materials costing 30 bucks.

Referring to commodity prices is irrelevant to the end user. In the same way no-one now goes to harvest the wheat. 

No-one disputes there is profit to be had in audio electronics but only considering material cost is a superficial analysis that frankly would not even get you far in a school essay.


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## prot

lfc_sl said:


> It is a capitalist world and profit is not the ugly word it may be to some. Even charities pay their executives handsomely.
> 
> You appear reluctant to address cooper's post, which is odd as you raised the subject. Outline to the forum the business plan. The pitch to the bank manager how to make a viable business out of charging 31 bucks for raw materials costing 30 bucks.
> 
> ...




My measurement stick is decency...capitalism, comunism, imperialism, all those are temporary. But that's philosophy. 

I have nothing against people making profits and a decent living. But selling something for 10x the manufacturing price is *not* decent it is roberry. And marketing and advertising can also be decent..noone needs the voodoo fog. 

A simple ebay search will show many well built OFC/OCC cables in the $50-100 category and silver cables in the $100-200 category. Guess those vendors went to a diff business school. Cause I highly doubt that anyone is running cable charities.


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## LFC_SL

It is fine if you do not know but don't really see where you are going with only posting about one subject within a niche discretionary hobby. The entire forum is non essential. I don't choose headphones over the rent. That's the nature of the consumerism beast. Consumers attach value to branding, ease of use and personal need for the product.

Only focussing upon a single base cost out of numerous other compulsory basic outlays is superficial and slightly naive Just a thought as it's rather cyclical to keep reading about copper. It's like shouting "axe and trees" at someone wanting a new bed.

If you think you can beat the large players and independents at their own game then do it. I will need some custom cables down the line and look forward to your offer.


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## prot

lfc_sl said:


> It is fine if you do not know but don't really see where you are going with only posting about one subject within a niche discretionary hobby. The entire forum is non essential. I don't choose headphones over the rent. That's the nature of the consumerism beast. Consumers attach value to branding, ease of use and personal need for the product.
> 
> Only focussing upon a single base cost out of numerous other compulsory basic outlays is superficial and slightly naive Just a thought as it's rather cyclical to keep reading about copper. It's like shouting "axe and trees" at someone wanting a new bed.
> 
> If you think you can beat the large players and independents at their own game then do it. I will need some custom cables down the line and look forward to your offer.




Just saying "you dont know" is neither nice nor helpful. I'm not selling anything, but if you need a solid aftermarket cable here is "my" offer http://www.head-fi.org/t/729693


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## prot

And to go back to Sennheiser. 

Up to this announcement they were in my top 5 audio manufacturers list. I had nothing but respect for their products. Sound, build quality, prices, there was absolutely nothing to complain about. I own 5 (five!) of their headphones/earphones and I think their Neumann KH studio monitors are between the best and most reasonably priced. 

I also have a list for a nice Christmas upgrade: a $500-1000 headphone. Sennheiser 800 was sharing the top spot with Hifiman 560 but now it's off the list and will prolly be replaced by Oppo PM2. As a general rule I always try to shop locally but this is simply too much. Sorry, when someone tries to shove overpriced voodoo down my throat I tend to disagree. I wish they fire that marketing "genius" who came up with those wonder-cables and give the power back to the decent engineers who released so many amazing products. 

Anyway, this is just my consumer wallet voting "Sennheiser no way!". And I am just one guy with one oppinion. No need to agree with me, no need to argue with me. 

Enjoy your cables. Don'f forget the music.


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## LFC_SL

This is not a dispute about the pricing of boutique three-figure cable lengths. It is about how you got there


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## i luvmusic 2

Can anyone please tell me if the stock HD700 cable is 4 conductors?

Thanks!


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## Soundwave76

I just bought the CH 650 S cable for 59€ from a local audio shop, where it was sold as a demo cable. I hooked it up to HD600 and ADI-2 Pro to balanced out mode, with an XLR-2x6,3mm extension cable. Sounds good, though I can't tell any differences to the previous Cardas and/or stock cables...


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