# ampsandsound (aka Amps & Sound)



## Luckbad (Jan 21, 2018)

http://ampsandsound.com/

Mogwai 

 Like many of our products, the Mogwai evolved from our earlier designs, borrowing from the Bigger Ben and Classic Wonder, while embracing the form factor of the Kenzie. The Mogwai offers more than an entry point for tube amps, but a hybrid product, meant for serious headphone and speaker use.

 Our circuit offers the ability to roll a wide variety of tubes inexpensively and bring increased power to headphones without any sacrifice of design choices that conflict with our values.

 The Mogwai combines the features of a full sized amp into a small amplifier package, weighing ~15lbs largely due to its over spec’d custom wound transformers. The Mogwai utilizes Single ended Class A operation with zero feedback to provide the essence of our Classic Wonder sound; strictly old school SET sound, while paired with a more accessible tube selection.

 The performance of the Mogwai is made possible with custom wound ultra-high quality output transformers from Transcendar Transformers providing amazing frequency extension and flat response.

 The Mogwai does not use a voltage divider network, but depends on transformers instead. We chose 32ohm tap for headphones to offer a dedicated selection for the widest range of headphones, and an 8ohm speaker tap to connect the Mogwai to moderately efficient speakers.

 The Mogwai displays its transformers prominently on the chassis to frame in the tube selections, which can vary from a 6L6GC to a KT88.

 Volume control is handled by the ALPS volume pot to allow attenuation and simplify the signal path… no preamp is needed. Zero feedback on the outputs negates the need for a pre, an iPhone can drive the Mogwai without issue.
 The Mogwai differs from the Kenzie as it aims to provide powerful output while remaining true to 50s tube ideals, and single ended sweetness. As with all ampsandsound products, we strive for a neutral, non-fatiguing sound, and demand that all our products be ultra-quiet in operation. Quiet operation is not just a goal but a guiding principle that shapes all design and implementation choices… from pots to resistors we strive for tube amps to never distract from the music.

 Input tube: 6SL7 or equivalent
 Output tubes: 6L6GC, EL34s, KT66, KT77, KT88, 6550s and KT90s
 Personal favorite is the TungSol 6L6GC STR. Warm, strong and tight bass.
 Cathode Bias/automatic bias allows for easy tube changes without adjustment.

 Compatible with 32ohm-300ohm headphones using the “32ohm” 1/4″ jack. (Beyerdynamic T1-600ohm were used successfully but not ideal.)

 Headphones driven successfully or tested with the amp include, Mr. Speaker Ethers, Mr. Speaker Ether Cs, Audeze LCD-2.2F, Audeze LCD-XC, AKG240, AKG701, Sony MDRV6, Sennheiser HD650, Sennheiser HD800, Beyerdynamic T1-32ohm, HIFIMAN HE400i.

 The Mogwai is made with pride in Southern California with US sourced parts, including our precision transformers.

*Specs*:
 Input impedance is 250Kohm with alps pot, .5v for full power.
 Noise with pot fully counterclockwise is 500 micro volts RMS
 Measured with 6550 output tubes on 1/4″ 32ohm optimzied headphone jack. 500mW RMS output 20 Hz (-2db) to 17.7 kHz (-3db)
 Measured with 6550 output tubes on 8 ohm tap. 3W RMS output 30 Hz (-1db) to 20 kHz (-2db)

 Please look at our news section for feedback from owners of the Mogwai.
 Mogwai Headphone amp – $1,700 with tube set.

Kenzie Headphone Amp 

 Like many of our products, the Kenzie Headphone Amp evolved from our earlier designs – in this case, rave reviews about the SE-84’s headphone section. The inevitable question followed; why didn’t we build a dedicated headphone amp?

 Why indeed? After some research, we came to the conclusion that the Kenzie amp using the much loved darling circuit was the right choice for us. The outstanding performance of the Kenzie Headphone amp is made possible with custom wound ultra-high quality output transformers providing amazing frequency extension. The Kenzie does not use a voltage network, and has more than enough power to drive even the most difficult headphones. We chose 32ohm and 600ohm to allow use with the widest variety of headphones.

 The Kenzie Headphone amp showcases the transformers on the chassis to frame in the amazing 1626 tubes in all their single-ended direct-heated bliss. We have included an ALPS volume pot to allow attenuation and simplify the signal path… no preamp is needed.

 The 1626 AKA Kenzie is one of the sweetest-sounding amps you will ever hear. The 1626 is commonly referred to as the poor man’s 300b; all the same great imaging, texture, and single-ended sweetness without the cost to break the bank.

 The 1626 is a WWII era tube used as a transmitter tube in radar installations. The design is shy on pure output, but is overflowing with texture and drive, and is paired with a massive choke and robust output transformers for ultra-quiet operation. As with all of our products, parts selection was crucial during this build and each chosen not for price, but for best quality and synergy.

 Input tube: 12SL7 or equivalent
 Output tubes: 1626 or VT-137 which is a WWII transmitter tube and characterized as sounding like a mini 300b.
 Cathode Bias/automatic bias allows for easy tube changes without adjustment.
 Compatible with 32ohm-300ohm headphones using the 32ohm 1/4″ jack.
 Headphones above 300ohms will benefit from using the 600ohm 1/4″ jack.
 Headphones driven successfully or tested with the amp include, Mr. Speaker Ethers, Mr. Speaker Ether Cs, Audeze LCD-2.2F, Audeze LCD-XC, AKG240, AKG701, Sony MDRV6, Sennheiser HD650, Sennheiser HD800 (though reduced volume), Beyerdynamic T1-600ohm, HIFIMAN HE400i.

 The Kenzie is made with pride in Southern California with US sourced parts, including our precision transformers.

*Specs*:
 Input impedance is 250Kohm with alps pot, .5v for full power.
 Noise with pot fully counterclockwise is 5mV RMS (Average)
 All measured at 32 ohm tap. All power measurements in RMS
 100mW 20 Hz (-1db) to 17.7 kHz (-3db)
 150mW 20 Hz (-1db) to 14.8 kHz (-3db)
 200mW 20 Hz (-1.25db) to 16.7 kHz (-3db)

 Please look at our news section for feedback from owners of the Kenzie Headphone amp.
 Kenzie Headphone amp – $1,500 with NOS tube set.

Gizmo I picked up the Mogwai that was at CanJam SoCal. Really loving it! These amps deserve their own thread. I'd post a pic of it, but it's the one on the website and the pictures are way better than what I can take.

 Since I bought the prototype, I'm claiming the right of prima nocta... or something... and nicknaming my Mogwai "*Gizmo*."


Reviews Kenzie Headphone Amp Positive Feedback
Headphone.Guru
mithrandir38
joespride

Note that development continues over at ampsandsound, and additional amplifiers have come to be since the post was originally made. 

*The following headphones amps are now being made by ampsandsound*:

Kenzie: Based on the Darling circuit. Now has a coupling cap upgrade option.
Kenzie Encore: Bigger than the original, headphone jacks now up front. Now has 2 inputs and 1 preamp out. Also comes in a Deluxe version with input transformers and upgraded coupling caps.
Mogwai: Headphone / speaker amplifier in one, old school SET sound. Coupling cap upgrade now available.
Mogwai Special Edition: Not yet widely available. Includes a tube rectifier and moves the the headphone jacks up front.
Agartha: Uses 300b tubes, SET sound. Cap and input transformer upgrades available.
Leeloo: Uses 12AX7 for input and a pair of EL-84s for output.
NOTE: You can talk to Justin Weber and order different output impedance on the headphone jack than what's listed.


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## ampsandsound

Thanks for the support! It was our first Can Jam and was so cool, completely different and more friendly vibe than Newport.


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## Thenewguy007

What's the pricing on these babies?


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## Luckbad

thenewguy007 said:


> What's the pricing on these babies?


 
  
 $1500 on the Kenzie, $1700 on the Mogwai.
  
 In other words, not nearly as expensive as I expected.
  
 After being extremely impressed with the sound, I eventually made the butt-puckering decision to ask how much they cost. I was expected upwards of $3000.
  
 When he said how much they cost, my eyes went a little wider and my heart started beating faster...
  
 I made the wise decision to go try all of the other tube amps at CanJam to make sure I wasn't completely bonkers.
  
 I wasn't.
  
 I came back downstairs after hours of trying other gear and committed to the purchase.


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## Luckbad

I went to grab another tube to play with from Justin and he let me take a fun DIY project of his back with me to test the speaker taps... Whiskey Box Speakers.
  
 They shouldn't sound as good as they do.


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## Luckbad

connieflyer said:


> I have the Kenzie on my short list and wondered if it was one you tried......http://ampsandsound.com/products/amps/kenzie-special-edition/


 
  
 Yep! I was really impressed with both the Kenzie and Mogwai. Honestly the main thing that drove me to get the Mogwai was that it had speaker taps and I would be able to buy the prototype unit, which is a fun novelty.


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## Thenewguy007

How do you think they compare to your previous Master-11?


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## joespride

I have had several of ampsandsound products and can tell you Justin is top knotch, He puts a lot of heart and soul into his builds and SQ is 2nd to none. Glad to see you started this thread luck
  
 Below are links to my thoughts on a couple of Justins amps,  I am no writer (youve been warned)
  
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/ampsandsound-se-84/reviews/10582
  
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/ampsandsound-kenzie-headphone/reviews/14229


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## raybone0566

Definitely looking to here some impressions on this amp.


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## Luckbad

thenewguy007 said:


> How do you think they compare to your previous Master-11?


 
  
 The Mogwai and Kenzie are both highly musical. It's hard to compare a tube amp with a solid state.
  
 The Master-11 amp section is perfectly neutral, but it has a lot of power and can do everything you ask of it. The DAC section is more important to the sound of the Master-11's amp than the amplifier itself, as the amp isn't coloring the sound.
  
 The Mogwai and Kenzie are both tube amplifiers, and both of them let you color the sound considerably.
  
 I can speak better to the Mogwai since I own it now and only got to hear the Kenzie at the meet.
  
 It has all of the romantic euphony of a tube amp but has balls--a power and grunt that many tube amplifiers lack.
  
 It's not perfectly neutral. The highs are slightly rolled off, and sub-bass can be slightly rolled off with certain tubes as well. Different parts of the frequency spectrum can be emphasized a bit depending on the tubes used.
  
 For example, the coveted Svetlana 6550 tubes sound amazing and have ample bass for me, but they have somewhere in the upper mids/lower treble that I'm sensitive to (it's the specific part of the spectrum that I'm sensitive to).
  
 The JJ 6CA7 power tubes are powerful, punchy, and full sounding. They also roll the upper mids off a little, which is absolutely perfect for me.
  
 I'm going to do some more tube rolling because you know... it's an addiction...
  
 Tube rolling in this thing is incredibly easy. It uses an auto-bias method that I suspect is similar to the Garage1217 Project Ember in that you don't have to do anything but turn off the amp, swap in a tube, and turn on the amp. It takes care of the rest.
  
 I'm trying to decide which KT88 tubes to try out in part because they have the sexy fat bottle look.


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## Luckbad

Here's Gizmo (the affectionate name for my Mogwai) with new production JJ KT88 and Tung-Sol GSL7GT tubes. I'm happy to report that these new production tubes are excellent and relatively inexpensive!


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## ampsandsound

Looking stout. JJ KT-88s are bass monsters. I've used in my old Dynaco MKIIIs and loved.


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## mithrandir38

Thanks @Luckbad for the heads up!  Looks like our threads came up around the same time: so I'm reposting here.
 these are initial impressions; I'm planning on doing a full review.
  
 I've been burning in the Kenzie for around a week now.  It sounded great right out of the box (probably due to those NOS 1626's.  I've found you need less burn in time with NOS tubes then, say, modern jj's or god forbid Genelex (I hate Gold Lions).  That being said, I've been going through my library of Rush 2015 remasters (which sound steller, btw! Pretty much flat transfers from the masters-very dynamic) and Joe Satriani, from the Chrome Dome set remastered by John Cuniberti: most excellent!  This is not a particulary romantic-sounding tube amp in the cliché sense of slow, syrupy, etc. Justin likes to say it's meant to emulate tube audio of the Golden Age of the 50's.  It's very smooth, yet very fast.  One of my favorite aspects of this amp is the treble; it is oh-so-smooth! sometimes my LCD-2f's could come off as slightly dry with my former Oppo HA-1.  Not so with the Kenzie; they sound better than I've ever heard them!  I was considering a Schiit Mjolnir or Decware Zen Taboo Headphone amp but i'm really loving this amp.  I took a hit on versatility, as I can't hook up my turntable or Emotiva Airmotiv speakers, but that's ok.  This is shaping up to be an awesome reference-level tube amp.  Btw: i'm running the Kenzie from a Schiit Gungnir Multibit DAC.  If anyone looks at the specs on the Ampsandsound website, don't think twice about the modest quoted output of around 200mw @ 32ohms- I don't know the circuit design details, but whatever Justin did, this amp drives the piss out of my LCD-2f's! I'm talking you'll probably never have to turn the knob past noon, and most would be satisfied between 10-11 oclock on the knob.  And it has a second dedicated jack for high impedance phones (think Beyer T1).

  
 I want to give special thanks to Justin @ampsandsound
 for a very pleasurable buying experience.  For anyone in the market for a new amp, I highly recommend you check out ampsandsound.  Truly great customer service and best in class warranty coverage and service.


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## mithrandir38

a few more pics of the Kenzie:


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## joespride

Which tubes are you burning in the Kenzie ??  I found the best were the Hytron vt37 / 1626, and the Raytheon 2c52  (I have a huge supply of both)  anyone interested  in an audition of said tubes I would happily support Justin by circulating a set for audition. If it turned out someone wanted a set I am sure that could be worked out as well


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## mithrandir38

joespride said:


> Which tubes are you burning in the Kenzie ??  I found the best were the Hytron vt37 / 1626, and the Raytheon 2c52  (I have a huge supply of both)  anyone interested  in an audition of said tubes I would happily support Justin by circulating a set for audition. If it turned out someone wanted a set I am sure that could be worked out as well


 
 The manufacturer isn't on the tubes.  I think Justin said they were RCA, but I could be mistaken.  Anyway, they are the "stock" JAN 1626s.  The input tube is the RCA 12sn7 that shipped with it.


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## joespride

After you get a feeling for the amp as is let me know if you are interested in rolling in something different, I have a few options I would send your way just cover shipping and agree to return them packed as you recieve them if you feel they are not for you.  In my experience there is not a ton of difference in rolling with the Kenzie.  The hytron 1626 improved bass a tad and the 2c52 brightened up the top end with better detail. Neither of which were night and day differences (certainly discernable, Just not jaw dropping)


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## mithrandir38

joespride said:


> After you get a feeling for the amp as is let me know if you are interested in rolling in something different, I have a few options I would send your way just cover shipping and agree to return them packed as you recieve them if you feel they are not for you.  In my experience there is not a ton of difference in rolling with the Kenzie.  The hytron 1626 improved bass a tad and the 2c52 brightened up the top end with better detail. Neither of which were night and day differences (certainly discernable, Just not jaw dropping


 
 Thanks for the offer, man!  Much appreciated!  When I roll tubes I'm just looking for slight differences (especially when an amp already sounds as good as the kenzie does, as there's really not much room for improvement, tbh).


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## Luckbad

Quick update: Justin updated the Amps & Sound website with more information on both the Kenzie and Mogwai. I updated the original post as well. It gives more info on the specs and compatible headphones and tubes.


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## joespride

Just took a look at the new additions to the web site and saw this:
  
"Sennheiser HD800 (though reduced volume)"
  
 Must say I dont understand this. I had the HD800 paired with Kenzie and you could literally go deaf if you were of a mind to. I suffered absolutely no loss of fidelity  that I heard
  
 Justin could you elaborate why you or ?? feels there was a loss. What I found was the HD800 was simply sublime on Kenzie at low volume and as high as ones ears could stand it.


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## mithrandir38

joespride said:


> Just took a look at the new additions to the web site and saw this:
> 
> [COLOR=AAA9A9]"Sennheiser HD800 (though reduced volume)"[/COLOR]
> 
> ...


I thought the same thing, but didn't comment on it as I don't have the HD 800s


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## ampsandsound

It was feedback I was given by some users at the Jam. When I listened, it was a solid performer... brought real warmth to the 800s. But I didn't want other to accuse me misrepresentation.So Joe should I change the posting?
  
 I treated myself to the Audeze LCD-XC... love the combo.


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## Luckbad

ampsandsound said:


> It was feedback I was given by some users at the Jam. When I listened, it was a solid performer... brought real warmth to the 800s. But I didn't want other to accuse me misrepresentation.So Joe should I change the posting?
> 
> I treated myself to the Audeze LCD-XC... love the combo.


 
  
 I can't imagine why it would be low in volume. The HD800 isn't especially demanding of amps to get loud.


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## joespride

ampsandsound said:


> It was feedback I was given by some users at the Jam. When I listened, it was a solid performer... brought real warmth to the 800s. But I didn't want other to accuse me misrepresentation.So Joe should I change the posting?
> 
> I treated myself to the Audeze LCD-XC... love the combo.


 
 I would change it.  I also can not imagine how anyone would feel the HD800 suffers any loss on the Kenzie.  I felt like it was basically a match made in heaven.  If money were never an issue it would still be my setup
  
 I have heard good things about the LCD XC.  Which amp do you use with them Of course you are not really limited being the builder


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## Luckbad

Ah, tube rolling the Mogwai.
 
I've now tried these power tubes:
 
 
Svetlana 8550
JJ KT88 (New)
Electro-Harmonix KT88 (New)
Mullard KT88 (New)
JJ 6CA7 (New)
Tung-Sol 5881 (New)
  
 The JJ KT88 are my favorites.

 
I've also tried the GE 6SL7(? Not actually sure which this one is), Sylvania 6SL7, Russian 6H9C/69NS Melz, Tung-Sol 6SU7, and Tung-Sol 6SL7 (New).
 
I think the GE is my favorite. Frankly, I can't tell as much of a difference between the 6SL7 as I can the power tubes. The Russian tubes are the brightest of the bunch, which sucks because I think they look the coolest. I was prepared for those to be my preferred tubes, but I can't handle much treble before my ears cry. Maybe with burn-in they'll smooth out a little.
 
I'm waiting on the 7F7 adapter I got from China to try one of those out.
 
At this point, I have two more power tube types on the way, but I'm guessing the JJ will come out top. One is a 6P3S-E from Ukraine/Russia, and another is a Preferred Series KT88 (new production triple mica made by Shuguang that is supposed to be very good).


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## joespride

Thats a lot of tubes to roll through in a short time.  You must be listening full time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I am setting here basically disabled from a work injury for almost 4 years now and can not listen that much. Perhaps it is the Mogwai sounds to good to shut off


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## mithrandir38

Getting back from a work trip, looking forward to trying out my new 2C52 that I bought from Justin. He says it's a transformative tube... I'll find out!


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## Luckbad

joespride said:


> Thats a lot of tubes to roll through in a short time.  You must be listening full time
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 To be honest, I use a couple of fairly objective tests at the start that can taint my impression of a tube. If I tap lightly on the amp and can hear microphonics, the tube better blow me away or I eliminate it from contention. That nuked the 6550s from orbit immediately (super microphonic) as well as the Mullard KT88 and to a lesser extent the Electro-Harmonix KT88.
  
 The 6550s are too bright in the upper mids. I investigated and that seems to be common among 6550 tubes. So I just bailed on that tube type entirely.
  
 EL34 from reading sounds like they lose out on bass (and treble), which meant I didn't bother trying any of those. Except I kinda did below.
  
 6CA7 is similarly soft sounding, so that got eliminated fairly quickly (though I'm keeping those tubes as a backup because they're solid). Pretty warm and romantic, but not very engaging.
  
 The Mullard KT88 sounding kinda boring to me. I let them warm up for 30 minutes before listening (same with all the tubes). Their bass wasn't as powerful as reputed and they sounded pretty meh overall.
  
 The Electro-Harmonix KT88 sounded good but were a bit microphonic. Nice extension on both ends, overall a very good sound.
  
 The JJ KT88 sound quite good with fairly powerful bass. They sound nearly the same to me as the Electro-Harmonix with the added bonus that they are not microphonic at all. I can drum on the table and not pick anything up.
  
 I have some tracks that have relatively harsh upper midrange that also lets me see if I cringe. If I do, the tube is gone. That happened when I rolled in the Russian input tube, which made me sad because they look so badass and are built like tanks. I'll eventually try burning one of those in to see if it smooths out.
  
 I haven't done much listening to the various input tubes yet. I decided to try to focus on the power tubes first. The input tubes I do have all seem fairly similar in their impact on sound apart from the Russian tube.


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## joespride

mithrandir38 said:


> Getting back from a work trip, looking forward to trying out my new 2C52 that I bought from Justin. He says it's a transformative tube... I'll find out!


 
 He is correct,  I turned him onto that one.  if you want a backup let me know I have a dozen


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## mithrandir38

here's my review of the Kenzie: http://www.head-fi.org/products/ampsandsound-kenzie-headphone


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## mithrandir38

BTW: whoever titled that product thread, it just says "Kenzie Headphone", not "amp"


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## MacedonianHero

I'm a big fan of the Kenzie. Got to review it late last year and it was the total package...great looking retro tube amplifier with a fantastic/clean sound!
  
 http://headphone.guru/the-amps-sound-kenzie-a-brilliant-new-tube-amplifier/


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## mithrandir38

macedonianhero said:


> I'm a big fan of the Kenzie. Got to review it late last year and it was the total package...great looking retro tube amplifier with a fantastic/clean sound!
> 
> http://headphone.guru/the-amps-sound-kenzie-a-brilliant-new-tube-amplifier/


 
 I thoroughly agree.  You're Peter?  I enjoy reading your columns. That Kenzie review was what got me looking at it


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## MacedonianHero

mithrandir38 said:


> I thoroughly agree.  You're Peter?  I enjoy reading your columns. That Kenzie review was what got me looking at it


 
 Yes, I am...thanks! If I had more room (and my wife wasn't so stringent with space) I would have gladly purchased the review amp I had. It is a peach!
  
 Throw in the fact that you don't have to break the bank on tubes...it was win-win for me.


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## mithrandir38

Yep! I rolled in a Raytheon 2C52 before I wrote the review.  Let it burn in for a couple days...I preferred the RCA 12SL7.  The 2C was a little too thick in the bottom.  This is a reference quality amp without the need for any exotic tubes, Imo.


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## Luckbad

Mirroring my comments from another thread:
  
 I'm slowly working on a review of the Mogwai that I purchased. It's crunch time at work, so I can't guarantee when I'll actually get around to posting it.
  
 I think only one or two others have purchased one at this point, so almost all impressions will be from CanJam.
  
 From Justin:
  


> What is "old school SET sound?"
> Means Single ended without regulators, feedback or modern techniques… Think 1950s tube sound… super warm, musical without a dry/modern more analytic sound. We take old circuits and reuse, but spec the highest tolerance components we can so its old school sound with modern material sciences.
> 
> How does the sound of the Mogwai differ from the Kenzie? The Mogwai has a more neutral voicing, perhaps it’s the difference between triode strapped vs a true triode, or modern power tubes vs old power tubes, but the Mogwai is more balanced and more powerful. Its possible to find the limit of the Kenzie’s power, but Mogwai is powerful enough that even the most non-compliant headphones have dynamic range. The Mogwai has enough power output to include a speaker out… an asked for feature making the amp more versatile.


 
  

 The sonic translation to me is that the Mogwai is super vintage sounding. It encapsulates rich, romantic euphony in the best possible way. With KT88 tubes, you can get the lush midrange warmth coupled with excellent extension both into the bass and treble.
  
 It's very responsive to tube rolling. With JJ 6CA7 tubes, I get the organic midrange with a softer treble and less bass extension. With JJ KT88s, you get a bit of bass compression so it actually punches harder than you might be used to in a tube, but it also has great treble extension without any fatiguing peaks. With Russian 6P3S-E tubes,you can extract extra detail and high end. 6550 Winged C tubes give you crazy extension but also have an upper mid peak I personally dislike.
  
 Input tube rolling with 6SL7 and equivalent can help you combo into whatever results you're looking for. My personal favorite thus far is GE JAN 6SL7WGT input tubes with current production JJ KT88 power tubes. Great extension, but very smooth highs and powerful bass, coupled with a full liquid midrange.
  
 I've toyed around with a bunch of random tube amps and never found anything under ~$2000 that I could say I clearly preferred to the Garage1217 Project Horizon III. There seems to be a dead zone between something like the Lyr 2/Mjolnir 2 (I like the Horizon better) and something like the Eddie Current Zana Deux S ($2300) or Cavalli Liquid Glass ($3500).
  
 Most of the amps I've tried didn't match my preferences. I like musical, warm, euphonic sound. I favor toe-tapping and head-bobbing much more than detail and clarity. The Mogwai gives me want I want, and if I want more detail to hear further into the music, I can roll tubes for that (go all-Russian NOS if you love analytical treble. 6H9C Melz -> 5881 for example).


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## rigo

I wish I would have listened to these during CanJam. I should have just waited for a spot at the table. Hopefully they'll be another opportunity soon.


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## mithrandir38

rigo said:


> I wish I would have listened to these during CanJam. I should have just waited for a spot at the table. Hopefully they'll be another opportunity soon.


 I believe they are going to be at T.H.E. Show Newport


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## rigo

I've never heard of this show. Thanks for the heads up. Since off topic I'll ask follow up questions via PM.


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## joespride

Took a look at the web site tonight and there are many changes, Sadly I see the SE84 is not offered now (I would have to say it was one of the amps that got ampsandsound rolling along ) I also see there is alot of press now with various reviews
  
 Glad to see Justin is moving on up.


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## joespride

Ordered an SE84 from Justin last night Hope to be listening to it late next week I had one a couple years back and it is the 1 amp I keep finding myself wishing I had never sold  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Now I have to sell off all my spare tubes and amps to help cover the $$$ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I sure would like to know what wealthy feels like & keeping all the gear I like


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## joespride

Heads up for Kenzie owners
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/804535/collection-of-6-12sl7gt-tubes-all-nos-military-grade-in-original-boxes
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/804531/collection-of-10-raytheon-2c52-3-1960-12sl7gt-equivilant-matched-tubes-original-boxes


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## joespride

SE-84 in the house, stock tubes Pair EL84 Sovtek, 12ax7 new issue Mullard....................Bass is hitting HARD on the HD650.  overall very Musical More later after some time with it
  
 Looks stunning 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Another GREAT amp Justin


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## Luckbad

Grats! What are you using to run the 650s off it?


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## joespride

It has Headphones and speaker taps, currently have the stock Sennheiser cable but waiting on a Norne cable.  Trevor at Norne is superb to deal with. A lot like Justin


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## joespride

The SE84 safe upon her perch


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## joespride

Ampsandsound SE84 revisited. I had 1 of the original SE84 amps Justin Built. I allowed myself 
 to be convinced to sell it in the supposed name of higher fidelity. What constitutes higher 
 fidelity ?  Is it that you can get more detail ?  Higher resolution ? More air ? I am sure we have all
 heard the terms used to describe a supposed better amp.  But is it really better ?  I know technically
 it is probably better, but does it sound better ?

 For me now there is 1 huge Elephant in the room, I am sick and tired of the endless persuit of Higher Fidelity
 I am drawing my line in the sand. What good is all this Fidelity, what are the costs of the persuit
 I am not talking about good old green backs, rather the constant upheival of our systems, and sanity.
 When is good enough,  "good enough ?"
  
 Re-Enter an improved ampsandsound SE84 (I bought what is likely the last SE84, it was Justins personal amp)
 I no longer have a desire to eek out that last enth of detail, resolution, seperation, clarity, blah, Blah, BLAH.
 I am firmly ensconced in the MUSICAL crowd from now on.  If your head is not rocking and your toes tapping I submit
 you are not living, merely existing. I am happily torturing my wife and kids with my rendition of pretty much what ever
 old favorite happens to be next on the playlist. Air drums "Please" I play with the best move over Keith Moon, John Bonham
 you have nothing on me.

 Though the SE84 is geared more towords 32 ohm cans I can say without hesitation my HD650 are hitting new and MUCH more 
 powerful lows, Can you say head vibrations ?  (I can now). Just because I am once again in the Musical camp that 
 does not make me deaf. so call me surprised when my humble little set up pulled out a detail never heard before. Ac/Dc
 Back in Black, Band member counting cadence before getting into the music.  New one on me.  Bela Fleck & The Flecktones 
 Cosmic Hippo has never had such presence, / authority I find myself wanting to listen to the whole album instead of 1/2 
 of 1 song in an effort to hear the never before heard Fideity (pick your own terms)

 To say I am very happy with this new amp would be an under statement. Another Home Run for ampsandsound
 Thanks just does not quite cover the feelings


----------



## ampsandsound

Joe this is your 3rd amp from me? Are you still running the full range speakers too? The SE84 never seemed to gain traction... Was more likely the form factor. The SE84 predated the Kenzie R2 when I worked to shrink its size. EL84s wired in triode with a voltage divider network... As soon as I can get caught up, Id like to send you a Mogwai to compare. 
  
 Im super happy you're enjoying the amp.


----------



## joespride

Hey Justin.  I would enjoy that compaarison very much I must admit I have been curious.  I understand completely why you had to drop SE84 No builder can keep everything in the line up. It only makes sense to adjust your offered product according to what sells best.  I do still have the single driver proto types and am looking for a way to incorporate them that is out of the way (Motorhomes dont allow much space 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
  
 I have been shocked at just how well the SE 84 is driving the HD650 at 300 ohms I would have thought it a task.  They sound superb infact they are giving me hints of the HD800 sound sig. Just not as wide.  I was up past 11pm listening last night and back up at 3 with the boys puppy (had to walk Muffin)
  
 Any advice on better or not EL84's ?? how about the 7189's would they play nice with the SE 84,  Also what about rolling the 12a_7...........any problems there trying the various types
  
 Joe


----------



## dpump

Can you use 6BQ5 in place of the EL84?


----------



## joespride

dpump said:


> Can you use 6BQ5 in place of the EL84?


 
 From my research I should be able to,  however I like to hear it from the builder


----------



## ampsandsound

7189 and 6bq5s work great. I still have the supplies to build more SE 84s but it's a question of what people like.
What's true of all the amps is the great transformers we use. For me, quality transformers are the life blood of the amp. 
The top plate of Joes amp looks super plan Jane.... Underside is pack monter seized transformers.


----------



## joespride

ampsandsound said:


> 7189 and 6bq5s work great. I still have the supplies to build more SE 84s but it's a question of what people like.
> What's true of all the amps is the great transformers we use. For me, quality transformers are the life blood of the amp.
> The top plate of Joes amp looks super plan Jane.... Underside is pack monter seized transformers.


 
 Great info thanks Justin.  what about the 12a_7 slot will any of the typical 12ax, 12au, 12at etc... work without issue...........Joe
  
 Side Note The HE560 sounds Damn fine on the SE84 but I was surprised to find it really has about the same output as the Sennheisers (I was half expecting the volume to go much louder)
  
 Both the cans produce different Sound Qualities It will take some time they both have qualities I like, the HD650 darker leans more musical, while the HE560 tends more analytical which is great for classical types.  Never really felt myself a multiple sets of cans guy but this will be hard to give 1 up I think


----------



## ampsandsound

Any 12a_7 will work but the question is gain provided. If assume that you need at least a mu of 70. So 12at7 and above.


----------



## joespride

Thanks Justin.  The HE560 is really revealing (and COMFORTABLE)  I have heard zero distortion even with the amp at max volume short periods.  Pretty much between 3 and 4 Oclock position most of the time (few hours constant now) 
  
 Luckbad can you elaborate on which cans you are using and give a brief description of performance as concerns the Mogwai.  reading the specs on the web site it appears the Mogwai specs are some what comparable to SE 84 
  
 Musical with clarity who would have thought


----------



## ampsandsound

Joe the Mogwai is about 40% more powerful and the headphone section doesn't employ a voltage divider network as well.
The SE-84 esp the unit you have has some crazy awesome iron. 
Btw, Thanks for the tubes... Crazy awesome gift. Anyone looking for rare tubes might ask Joe. he found stuff I've never seen.


----------



## joespride

Thought you might like some of those   I have not seen some of them since scoring them either
  
 40% more power now I am really looking forward to comparing the Mogwai sounds like a perfect match for the HE560. They are sounding like something special with the SE84, But I have a sneaking suspicion that more power will make them shine even more .


----------



## joespride

Anyone have experience with the Vinyl Flat Can Opener ?? care to share experience ??
  
 http://vinylflat.com/canopener.html
  
  
 Justin Do you have any thoughts good or bad using above with SE84  ??


----------



## ampsandsound

It uses a voltage divider network... Least I think it does. Only needed if you had a power amp and wanted to use cans. 

Anyone buys the massdrop he-350. I need a pair like a hole in the head and yet I want a pair to comps jr with.


----------



## joespride

Hey Justin
  
 It has 4 resistors used to change the ohms the amp sees and also lowers the output into the cans.  Reason I want to try it is 3wpc out at speaker taps and 500mw out at headphone jack as the HE560 needs more power I thought it might allow for more power to the 560
  
 It looks like it would be easy to bypass the resistors for a full 3 wpc into the 560.  Tons of people RAVE about the HiFiMan being run off speaker taps
  
 at any rate it would be a cheap way to experiment without butchering a bunch of cables


----------



## joespride

Sennheiser HD700 delivered today and holy crap the bass impact is like getting kicked in the head..............these may well be the prefect can for the SE84 Volume at maybe 11:00 and the EL84 sound so good
  
 One way to know you have a great amp in the chain is insert a headphone many seem to dislike and have it sing with grace & authority The only thing you can do is question why others dis like this can.  It has to boil down to chain


----------



## joespride

I am there, after many years My headphone Chain is complete.  I have always felt like I could improve this or that in the chain. I am actually feeling content today The rig has been playing for 6+ hours straight and Zero Fatigue just wonderful sweet MUSIC flowing
  
 My hobby will consist of tube rolling and new music from this point forward...........Few pieces to sell that will get ZERO headtime now and I get to stop looking at the classifieds
  
 Thank you Justin for the SE84 and your continued friendship, you have made me happy (and you know my situation, so happy is a hard place to find for the past 4 years)
  
 A person I am proud to call friend


----------



## joespride

SE84 Tube Rolling begins now
  
 Currently have acquired a few pairs of SE84 and already had a few of the Driver 12a_7 types
  
 Right now have a 1960's pair of RCA smooth round gray plate top halo getter EL84's in place with a 1966 mullard 6681 driver.  Sounding VERY nice with lots of detail and impact. Mids are quite organic, Highs sound good while not overly bright.  The HD700 remains a real pleasure the amp just drives them so nicely
  
 Next few tubes I have on the way, EL84's Mullard, Amperex, Matsusheta....................Drivers I already have an Amperex 12 ax, and scored a pair of the EH 12ax7 gold pins


----------



## joespride

Lately my chain has undergone drastic changes, I recently added a new Amp, Cans, & Usb SPDIF converter. 
 The Amp the venerable ampsandsound SE84 (no longer in the standard offering, Replaced by Mogwai)I was lucky enough to get Justins personal amp
 and it has brought me to new levels of enjoyment with my music. The EL84 has long been held a MUSICAL tube and the SE84 does not let down
 Superbly MUSICAL while retaining a great bit of detail and clarity. Nice sparkle on top with ZERO harsh edge (I play only ddigital files)
 Next was the much maligned Sennheiser HD700 headphones and I must say I am at a loss understanding the Love Hate responses to these cans
 I can only attribute my experience with these cans to its pairing with the SE84, I can tell you I have nothing but praise for this
 set of cans, so much so I sold all my others (HE500, HE560,  HD650, HD800) The 700 is now my sole pair of cans. They offer an amazing sound 
 signature IMHO, they play nicely with every genre. Offering stunning IMPACT with tight articulate bass, slightly forward mids with wonderful tone.
 Just the perfect amount of sparkle with out any harshness
 Last Enter the Gustard U12 converter, getting rid of all the noise from the pc usb, and allowing me to run 24 / 96 into the MHDT Havana's SPDIF
 input.Actually offered up a bit more detail
 I honestly feel like my listening has reached new heights of enjoyment. Being supremely Musical while retaining clarity, detail, superb bass. 
 I took the liberty of jotting down some notes while listening to some different music over the last few hours. These are not barely audible nuances
 but in your face Holy Schiit, where did that come frome details
 It becomes pretty clear where the Heaadphone CRAZE comes from when you attain these type results

 Bon Jovi Slippery When Wet, Wanted Dead or Alive Piano on stage left
 Cat Stevens, Tea for the Tillerman, Where do the Children Play.  Much cleaner, Hear the pic on the strings
 Backup singers more present
 Chris Isaak, Heart Shaped World, Wicked Game, Cymbals much more presence, easily follow count
 Sometimes God Smiles, Bill Bruford. Prism long time reference for impact, picking up some chatter behind him as well as some odd 
 almost want to call it distortion but I would almost swear there is someone playing a largish hand drum
 Allegro Con Brio, Symphony No. 5 same album, Bass is slamming
 Allegretto, Dont know how to explain it, Simply amazing strings
 Chesky Records Demo 2, Rebecca Pigeon, Spanish Harlem. Her Vocals reverberate / echo
 Overall Much More ambient noise echo from the stage / studio
 Mids have a more lush presentation while remaining very detailed
 soundstage is noticebly wider, more depth
 The persuasions Angel of Harlem, can hear vocals depth changing lead singer is obviously moving around as he sings
 Bob Seger Nine Tonight, way more of the live venue ambient noise, crowd interaction
 Neil Young Live at Massey Hall, Applause sounds more like actual hands clapping, Picking up more of the venue ambiance
 Kind of easy to pick out solo audience member claps


----------



## Luckbad

Still loving my chain as well!

Mutec MC-3+USB to MHDT Labs Atlantis to ampsandsound Mogwai, usually with Sennheiser HD650 cans.

I've rolled a tremendous number of tubes in both and I've settled on some personal favorites.


----------



## mithrandir38

Me too! I'll throw down with my Gungnir MB to my Kenzie to my LCD-2 f's. Playing Pink Floyd's Pulse, Volto! Incitare, Tears for Fears, and various Rush remasters from '15. I've tried the vaunted Raytheon input tube, and while great- sounding, it adds a little too much body for me. The stock config is world class for me.


----------



## joespride

Well it seems the Gustard U12 was not up to the task, Software became an issue causing PC lockups etc... so back to Amazon it went. I now have the Breeze audio in place and am awaiting a wavelength as well...........the Breeze sounds damn fine so far and no software issues
  
 Final tube selection in the SE84 I landed on the RCA smooth oval gray plates with the top disc / halo getters, and a 60's Mullard military grade 12ax7.  Still IMHO the best I have had it so far. Though I am still itching to hear a Mogwai as Justin tells me it has about 40% more power than the SE84


----------



## PATB

I bought @joespride original Kenzie about 7 months ago, primarily for my HD800 and HD650.  While the Kenzie did a good job with the Sennheisers, I was very surprised that it drives the LCD-2.2F very well indeed!  I thought the LCD-2 would require more power.  The Kenzie gives an added sweetness to the LCD-2 signature without blurring the edges.  My LCD-2 is now permanently stuck to the Kenzie 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## mithrandir38

patb said:


> I bought @joespride
> original Kenzie about 7 months ago, primarily for my HD800 and HD650.  While the Kenzie did a good job with the Sennheisers, I was very surprised that it drives the LCD-2.2F very well indeed!  I thought the LCD-2 would require more power.  The Kenzie gives an added sweetness to the LCD-2 signature without blurring the edges.  My LCD-2 is now permanently stuck to the Kenzie  .


 yep! I found that out at can jam when I plugged in a pair of LCD 2s.it drives them seriously loud, and with finesse


----------



## ampsandsound

I have the LCD2.2F 2016edition. Ive had the LCD XCs and came back to the LCD2s. The microsuede earpads made a huge difference for me.


----------



## buke9

The Kenzie should be here Monday. Can't wait to hear it thru my Yggy it sounded good from a Dragonfly Red it can only get better. Only heard it with my Ethet C's can't wait to hear the HD 700's from it.


----------



## Smazz

Loving my Mogwai, handles my 4s like a dream


----------



## rigo

Mogwai has been a great purchase.  What sold me was the ability to drive bot headphones and speakers.  Drives my Senns well, but I find myself listening a lot more recently to my Zu Audio Omen speakers in my office.  Something that I was a bit worried about was the bass, but it is coming through with a variety of gneres - rock, Hip Hop.  Jazz and R&B vocals are impressive.   I don't think I'm hearing the potential in such a small room, so I'm considering moving downstairs to a larger area.


----------



## dmhenley

Have the Sophia Electric KT88-ST's in the Mogwai. Holy crap. These tubes are better than anything I've run to date. The Mogwai is now my main amp for phones and speakers.


----------



## rigo

dmhenley said:


> Have the Sophia Electric KT88-ST's in the Mogwai. Holy crap. These tubes are better than anything I've run to date. The Mogwai is now my main amp for phones and speakers.




What speakers are you using?


----------



## dmhenley

I'm currently using Tekton Lore.


----------



## ampsandsound

Gotta post a pic for us.


----------



## Douger333

Good idea!!


----------



## dmhenley

Mogwai and the full Sophia Electric complement.
  
 I also posted a report on my site with details and pics. The Mogwai continues to impress as I make changes to associated gear/tubes.


----------



## rigo

dmhenley said:


> Mogwai and the full Sophia Electric complement.
> 
> I also posted a report on my site with details and pics. The Mogwai continues to impress as I make changes to associated gear/tubes.




Link to the report?


----------



## mithrandir38

rigo said:


> Link to the report?


 thenewold.com


----------



## dmhenley

Yep, there's a link in my signature


----------



## mithrandir38

dmhenley said:


> Yep, there's a link in my signature


I was curious so I hunted you down with a single Google search! I'm the world's greatest detective!


----------



## dmhenley

Nice!


----------



## rigo

Thanks.from my phone I can't see the signature link. Nice site!


----------



## dmhenley

rigo said:


> Thanks.from my phone I can't see the signature link. Nice site!


 
 Thanks! Having fun with it. 
 Will be posting on the Sophia Electric 6SL7 soon.


----------



## Luckbad

I miss my Mogwai and Atlantis+. It'll probably be a year before I can get one again.


----------



## dmhenley

Alright, here's my last rolling post, for now. The Sophia Electric 6SL7 is a very nice tube.
  
 http://thenewold.co/sophia-electric-6sl7-current-production-vs-nos-tubes/


----------



## dmhenley

Hey All. Posted my Mogwai for sale. Time for a new adventure.
Including several tubes in the sale.


----------



## mithrandir38

dmhenley said:


> Hey All. Posted my Mogwai for sale. Time for a new adventure.
> Including several tubes in the sale.



What adventure, pray tell?


----------



## dmhenley

I'm planning to have an amp built - 45's!
 Matt Formanek builds tube amps by hand. ToolShed Amps is the name. He does the wood working for the base, and the metal work on the base plates, etc. 
 I dig the vintage look, and the circuits are point to point wired, low watt amps.
  
  
 Some photos of his work here.


----------



## joespride

SE-84, Re-visiting an old friend. What can I say I love the EL-84 its like a cozy couch or chair you can never

quite get rid of.  It does not matter how nice the newer stuff looks feels old comfy stays around. I have recently 

switched up my system again ( its a never ending process ) I am back to the basics "shortest chain theory".

Source to upgraded MHDT Havanna DAC, to Ampandsound SE-84 Integrated AMP, And finally Ampandsound Cornscala Speakers.

In the past the SE-84 had duty mainly as a headphone rig where it stood tall and made me take notice of its 

musicality, Detail retrieval,& Prat. 


Today on speaker duty I have had occasion to re think its abilities. You could call me a soundstage whore

I absolutely love a huge soundstage, I go through large amounts of time and effort to set up speakers in a manner

that provides me as much detail in a soundstage as I feel humanly possible. Just occasionally I get a reward, the SE84

has SURPRISED the hell outta me with its ability to throw a HUGE stage and stay MUSICAL, with PRAT to spare. It is eerily 

Realistic when you find yourself looking behind you for someone who is not there. (this on music you have had for years)


I honestly dont know why more people have not climbed aboard the Ampsandsound band wagon, Of the 1/2 dozen or so I know 

that have auditioned there wares, Not one of those have had a bad experience, moreover they have been inclined to buy. 

If you are looking for a very nicely built Amp with Great Customer service I urge you to give Justin Weber (Ampsandsound)

a try. I guarantee you will not be disappointed


----------



## Astral Abyss

Is the Leeloo similar to the SE-84?  On the ampsandsound webpage it mentions the SE-84 on the Leeloo product description.

Wondering if it's safe to assume that the tube compatibilities are the same for both?  I'll be receiving a Leeloo tomorrow that I bought from another forum member.  He's including a number of excellent tubes, but I have a number of 12at7 tubes, including a couple 12at7 French made Philips tubes that I like a lot and just wanted to verify that they will work in Leeloo...


----------



## joespride

The Leeloo is the updated version of the SE84, Not sure of all the improvements  Justin could surely answer. I know the Choke was improved and it is supposed to be quieter (although I am not sure it means much as I find the SE84 virtually dead quiet)

I found the vintage RCA 6bq5 / EL84 to be a superb tube...............I compared it to many of the supposed greats like mullard and amperex. I much preferred the RCA. (More Musical less analytical)

I am sure you will love Leeloo, Do post your impressions


----------



## Astral Abyss

joespride said:


> The Leeloo is the updated version of the SE84, Not sure of all the improvements  Justin could surely answer. I know the Choke was improved and it is supposed to be quieter (although I am not sure it means much as I find the SE84 virtually dead quiet)
> 
> I found the vintage RCA 6bq5 / EL84 to be a superb tube...............I compared it to many of the supposed greats like mullard and amperex. I much preferred the RCA. (More Musical less analytical)
> 
> I am sure you will love Leeloo, Do post your impressions



This is great information @joespride .  Thank you, and now you've got me curious about those RCAs.


----------



## hemtmaker

I am really impressed with how the mogwai with upgraded caps pairs with HE1000V2. The sound is dynamic, balanced and extended. Thanks to Justin for building this gem for me, also thanks to Darren for the SE KT88-ST and SE 6SL7 tubes recommendation


----------



## mithrandir38

I took custody of the first production Kenzie Encore yesterday, and am thoroughly enjoying it.
I ordered mine with the input transformer option and upgraded Auricap capacitors. Surprisingly, I'm enjoying it most with a Sovtek 12ax7 tube rather than any of my NOS 12SL7 OR 12at7 tubes.


----------



## Astral Abyss

I've just got to say, Leeloo is one amazing woman, I mean amp!  She sings with any tube combo I've tried so far.  So nice and quiet with my Grados.  Such a great combo.  More punch and dynamics then I've ever gotten out of my Grados before.  Although, I do have to say that the Ember II as a preamp into a Schiit Asgard 2 is a close 2nd to Leeloo, if you want a cheap date.

I've been doing some serious tube rolling, trying out EL84s from Amperex (Bugle Boy), Tungsram, Mullard (Blackburn), and most recently, some 7189 Tung-Sol's.  Yep, someone on ebay was selling a sleeve of 7189s for $50/tube so I bought two tubes.  They are legit, NIB, 104%/103%.  On the 12ax7 side I've tried a Raytheon 5751 windmill getter, Mullard CV4004, and Telefunken ribbed plate.  Also tried a French made Philips 12at7, very nice and clear sounding.  Got a '49 Ken-Rad 12ax7 on the way that I'm dying to try with these Tung-Sol's.

I really don't think it gets any better than this.  Fairly inexpensive tube rolling and wonderful, clean sound.  I just wanted to thank Justin for such an amazing amp.  I love the design and woodwork almost as much as the sound.


----------



## buke9

Astral Abyss said:


> I've just got to say, Leeloo is one amazing woman, I mean amp!  She sings with any tube combo I've tried so far.  So nice and quiet with my Grados.  Such a great combo.  More punch and dynamics then I've ever gotten out of my Grados before.  Although, I do have to say that the Ember II as a preamp into a Schiit Asgard 2 is a close 2nd to Leeloo, if you want a cheap date.
> 
> I've been doing some serious tube rolling, trying out EL84s from Amperex (Bugle Boy), Tungsram, Mullard (Blackburn), and most recently, some 7189 Tung-Sol's.  Yep, someone on ebay was selling a sleeve of 7189s for $50/tube so I bought two tubes.  They are legit, NIB, 104%/103%.  On the 12ax7 side I've tried a Raytheon 5751 windmill getter, Mullard CV4004, and Telefunken ribbed plate.  Also tried a French made Philips 12at7, very nice and clear sounding.  Got a '49 Ken-Rad 12ax7 on the way that I'm dying to try with these Tung-Sol's.
> 
> I really don't think it gets any better than this.  Fairly inexpensive tube rolling and wonderful, clean sound.  I just wanted to thank Justin for such an amazing amp.  I love the design and woodwork almost as much as the sound.


 Yes Leeloo is hot . The amp is also very good. Still loving my Kenzie and even more after Justin sent the new tube and adapter he spoke of at CanJam. I got to roll back some more but the 5755 seems like is a keeper. My modded HE-400's are just too much fun now.


----------



## dpump

Justin,

Can you comment on using other tubes in place of the 12SL7 on the Kenzie? I noticed the 5755 mentioned above and wonder if there are others that can be used? I know an adaptor is needed. I have purchased a number of other adaptors from eBay for different tubes but I don't presently have one for the 5755. 

You stated recently that you use the RCA 1626 and the Raytheon 2C52 in your Kenzie and wondered what other people were using or had tried. I tried a number of  12SL7's before settling on the Raytheon 2C52. 12SL7's tend to be microphonic and also added a bit of background noise. The 2C52 has less microphonics than 12SL7's and also almost eliminated background noise. I also think the 2C52 sounds a little better than the 12SL7's I tried. I'm also using RCA 1626. I tried one other brand of 1626 but couldn't tell much if any difference between it and the RCA. Interested to see if another tube used in place of the 2C52 can improve the sound and/or reduce the gain somewhat to allow more range on the volume control.


----------



## buke9

I just got back from a meet and haven't had the time to set everything back up as I'm very busy at work but I think the the 5755 is very good have not tried it against my 2C52 but will this weekend .   I think both are better than the 12sl7. Well doing a mini shoot out right now. It takes a bit to let tubes warm up. OK I think I can so for sure for me the 5755 is the winner. The 2C52 was a close second as it had a bit more bass and still wasn't bad in the rest but not to be . The 12sl7gt just fell behind on all of it. It is fairly decent but with the other two can't keep up in my opinion. This was out of my MacBook Pro into the QP1R in dac mode to the Kenzie. Listening was done from the HD-700's too much maligned.


----------



## mithrandir38

dpump said:


> Justin,
> 
> Can you comment on using other tubes in place of the 12SL7 on the Kenzie? I noticed the 5755 mentioned above and wonder if there are others that can be used? I know an adaptor is needed. I have purchased a number of other adaptors from eBay for different tubes but I don't presently have one for the 5755.
> 
> You stated recently that you use the RCA 1626 and the Raytheon 2C52 in your Kenzie and wondered what other people were using or had tried. I tried a number of  12SL7's before settling on the Raytheon 2C52. 12SL7's tend to be microphonic and also added a bit of background noise. The 2C52 has less microphonics than 12SL7's and also almost eliminated background noise. I also think the 2C52 sounds a little better than the 12SL7's I tried. I'm also using RCA 1626. I tried one other brand of 1626 but couldn't tell much if any difference between it and the RCA. Interested to see if another tube used in place of the 2C52 can improve the sound and/or reduce the gain somewhat to allow more range on the volume control.


Speaking of lowering the gain a little bit, I use a NOS Siemens 12AT7. It is essentially the same tube has a 12AX7,with lower gain, so you can use the same adapter. It is my tube of choice, most often


----------



## dpump

Thanks for the responses on using alternate tubes to the 12SL7 on the Kenzie. I see an adaptor on eBay to use the 5755 in place of the 12SL7. Are you using this same adaptor to use a 12AX7,12AU7, 12AT7, or is a different adaptor needed for these tubes?


----------



## mithrandir38

dpump said:


> Thanks for the responses on using alternate tubes to the 12SL7 on the Kenzie. I see an adaptor on eBay to use the 5755 in place of the 12SL7. Are you using this same adaptor to use a 12AX7,12AU7, 12AT7, or is a different adaptor needed for these tubes?


Those are different adapters. You need separate adapters for 5755 and 12ax7 types


----------



## JoeDoe

mithrandir38 said:


> Those are different adapters. You need separate adapters for 5755 and 12ax7 types



So how does the Encore compare to the original?


----------



## mithrandir38

JoeDoe said:


> So how does the Encore compare to the original?


It has the same tonality as the original, but slams a bit harder with the optional input transformers. It's a bit quiet than the original. The dual inputs are a godsend, and it sounds great as a preamp. In short, everything that was good about the Kenzie is improved on the Encore.


----------



## JoeDoe

mithrandir38 said:


> It has the same tonality as the original, but slams a bit harder with the optional input transformers. It's a bit quiet than the original. The dual inputs are a godsend, and it sounds great as a preamp. In short, everything that was good about the Kenzie is improved on the Encore.


I gotcha. Thanks for your thought's!


----------



## JoeDoe

Well, as of last night, it's settled. I've got a Kenzie with upgraded caps in the build queue! Decided to build an endgame rig for my PS1000's and I think it'll be the Kenz with a Neko D100ii DAC. 

Had the Leeloo for a short time and loved it, but had to part with it prematurely. Hoping that I can liquidate some of my other gear before the Kenzie gets here!


----------



## desik

Anyone got a chance to compare Kenzie Encore with something else same price range, like Zana Deux?


----------



## desik

@mithrandir38, did you have a chance to compare your amp with something else?


----------



## mithrandir38

desik said:


> @mithrandir38, did you have a chance to compare your amp with something else?


Just my Mjolnir 2 amp, which I sold to a friend on another site. I prefer the all tube sound of the Encore. I'll a have a review up on the coming weeks


----------



## cute

mithrandir38 said:


> Those are different adapters. You need separate adapters for 5755 and 12ax7 types



Could you please post, or link to the exact Sovtek 12AX7 that you are using?

Thanks


----------



## ampsandsound

The Sovtek is likely they 12AX7LPS. Has long plates and spiral filaments. Great sounding tube and won’t break the bank.


----------



## cute

ampsandsound said:


> The Sovtek is likely they 12AX7LPS. Has long plates and spiral filaments. Great sounding tube and won’t break the bank.



Thanks Justin!  Hey I sent you an email asking about outboard transformers for my Kenzie.  Mine is a few years old, would it benefit my unit?

Thanks


----------



## Elzizo

Luckbad said:


> http://ampsandsound.com/
> 
> Mogwai
> 
> ...


Thank you for taking to time to put this together. I for one appreciate your efforts!

-Elzizo


----------



## Luckbad

*Thursday*
I'm listening to Justin's personal Mogwai Special Edition at home right now. The Mogwai holds a special place for me as my first big boy tube amplifier and I've always had nostalgia for its musicality.

@ampsandsound can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this particular unit is running with:

Two inputs (with a switch to swap between them on the fly). One with an input transformer, one without
Wima capacitors (not the upgraded caps)
A badass Mullard 5AR4 rectifier
Input (driver) tube looks to be a JJ 6SL7
Power (output) tubes are Tung-Sol 6L6GC STR
32 ohm & 300 ohm headphone outs, 8 ohm speaker taps
Rosewood casework (don't think this is normal--it's his personal unit)
The tube complement is going to influence a lot of my impressions because this type of amplifier is dramatically influenced by the tubes. That said, it's still pretty easy to judge you'll enjoy an amp with just about any decent tube, and the tubes in here are pedestrian but known for their reliability (with the exception of the rectifier, which is balls-to-the-wall outstanding and costs ~$200).

My initial impressions were using the Sennheiser HD650 from the 32 ohm output and the input with the transformers.

And what a first impression the Mogwai SE makes!

The musicality is incredible. The deep, slamming bass is better than I've ever heard on the HD650s. Soundstage depth is very good, width is good. The background is very quiet with these cans--much quieter than my original Mogwai was, that's for sure.

With the RME ADI-2 DAC it's pretty easy to compare two different inputs. I had one output from the headphone out in front and the other output from the line outs in back. To maintain volume control (because either the ADI-2 DAC's output levels are different between the two or the inputs on the Mogwai SE are at different volumes, not sure which), I kept it in a mode that lets me press the volume button (or a remapped key on the remote) to switch between line and phone out.

I quickly came to the conclusion that the input with the transformer(s?) is better. Unfortunately, that's something like a $400 option, but hey, it's better in just about every way to my ears.

Testing between the 300 ohm and 32 ohm outputs is a little tougher because they output at different volumes, but I'm pretty sure I prefer the 32 ohm output. I don't have the necessary cables to convert the 8 ohm speaker taps to a 1/4" out so I don't get to test that.

This amp reminds me of why I was swept off my feet at the CanJam meet a couple years ago when I originally bought a Mogwai. It is raw musicality. This latest version doesn't want for detail and fulfills all of the audiophile checkboxes in my book.

It does not pair wonderfully with the Audeze LCD2 Classic. Those headphones need lower output impedance and might do well from the 8 ohm taps.

The ZMF Auteur, on the other hand, sounds lovely. I'm pretty unfamiliar with this headphone but first impressions are very good when paired with the Mogwai SE.

The Mogwai Special Edition is the sort of amplifier that makes you want to saturate paragraphs with hyperbole.

I'm tired of typing and going to relax into the amp for the rest of the night.

*Three Days Later...*
I spent a little more than the weekend with the ampsandsound Mogwai SE. As I mentioned earlier, its tube complement was a high end rectifier and the other 3 tubes were fairly common new production tubes. I didn't tube roll, so my experience is based exclusively on those.

After the weekend, I've come to the conclusion that I've never heard a better amp for the HD650s. It drove them with more authority than anything I've owned or encountered for any real period of time (no, I've never heard the Aficionado).

My limited memory of the pre-production DNA Stellaris (when it was the Super Stratus) is that it has similar tonal characteristics to that, which puts it in a similar playing field to the Stratus (which I haven't heard in good conditions, but I loved what I heard from that).

Compared to the Eddie Current Super 7--from memory but with the Liquid Crimson as reference and Orchid as a familiar DAC--it hits considerably harder. It has a similar wetness and musicality, but may very well outresolve it. Mine was minimally modified (decent but not great film capacitors, nicer wiring, good RCA jacks).

I noted this previously, but it's the sort of amp that makes you prone to hyperbole. It has an ineffable quality to it. It's euphonic, musical, and joyous. The Mogwai SE is an amplifier that you plug into and can't help but crack a smile. It's the warm fire and cocoa on a cool winter night. It wraps you up in the music.

Perhaps the highest compliment you can pay to a piece of audio gear is that you just want to keep listening as you get lost the music. That's what the Mogwai Special Edition accomplishes.

It's not as clean as the Liquid Crimson. It doesn't manage the same level of microdetail and microdynamics. But it has a magical quality to its presentation that makes it more alluring a listen.

The unit I had here was equipped with two inputs. One had a pair of transformers (one per channel), and the other input did not. I preferred the transformer-coupled input without question. It was cleaner yet more authoritative. In fact, I'm really curious about the effect of inputs transformers on other amps and might ping Justin to see if I can get some outboard input transformers to find out.

High impedance dynamic headphones like the Sennheiser HD650 and ZMF Auteur were utterly outstanding from the 32 ohm output. I didn't love the Sennheisers from the 300 ohm output, as it crept some of the upper bass toward the mids and seemed to smear things a little more to my ears. The Auteurs fared a bit better at 300 ohms.

I also do not think it played nicely with the Audeze LCD2 Classics. You need a lower output impedance amp with those, it seems. They became a bit bloated and glossed over. I wish I had an adapter to try the 8 ohm speaker taps with the Audezes or Sennheisers.

With the Orchid, the Mogwai SE became too much of a good thing. It was too wet, too smooth, too bloomy. With the RME ADI-2 DAC using a filter without much rolloff (e.g. SD Sharp), it was outstanding. Folks like atomicbob espouse system synergy for a reason.

Compared to the original ampsandsound Mogwai, the Mogwai is basically a little better in every way. More moarness. Ergonomically, it's also considerably better. The headphones outs up front make things much less awkward.

This is very late in the comment to note this because for some reason I've been taking for granted that people know some things about the amp but...

General characteristics of the Mogwai Special Edition:

Full, layered, impactful bass
Rich, luscious mids
Smooth yet somewhat airy treble
Engagement is favored without sacrificing much detail, clarity, or dynamics
Soundstage approaches "spooky" levels similar to Eddie Current (though EC still performs this magic slightly better)
So did I buy one? No, not yet.

Reasons? Sure...

Price: It's above my self-imposed limit of $2000 for an amplifier. Maybe if one happens to show up used below that cutoff.
Versatility: I have lower impedance headphones as well as IEMs. The Liquid Crimson does great with those, but the Mogwai is especially well-suited to high impedance dynamics.
Tube Nervosa: Some of you saw what happened when I had 7 tubes to choose in the Super 7... it quickly gets stupid and I acquire a pile of tubes and stop enjoying the music.
If I had room in the budget for an amp to specifically pair with my modded Sennheiser HD650s, I'd already have an order in with ampsandsound.


----------



## omniweltall

Great review! Really enjoyed reading it. 

Luckbad is certainly one of few ears I trust here. He gives objective reviews and has experience to review gears.


----------



## zach915m

Luckbad said:


> *Thursday*
> I'm listening to Justin's personal Mogwai Special Edition at home right now. The Mogwai holds a special place for me as my first big boy tube amplifier and I've always had nostalgia for its musicality.



Great write up I couldn't have said it better!

We will have a Mogwai SE at our booth at CanJam NYC with a very similar configuration (same amp diff tubes) as @Luckbad is checking out right now.  It is incredible how the Mogwai manages impact, weight and musicality while not sacrificing linearity and extension.  It's a cool experience.


----------



## dunkyboy

Just wanted to post my [long, ongoing] Mogwai SE story.

I bought ZMF Eikons last August, hoping they’d be the end of my search for the perfect closed-back headphones, for the office. (I also bought a pair of Atticus to compare, but decided they weren’t for me.) They came so close to perfection that I’ve been on a follow-up search for the perfect amp for them!

I found my Schiit Lyr lacking, even with rolled tubes. My Chord Mojo drove them pretty well on its own (better than the Lyr, though with less raw power), but with a persistent grain and lack of sweetness & air in the treble.  I suspected the high-impedance Eikons weren’t mating well electrically with the low-output-impedance solid state amps.

So I bought a Valhalla 2, hoping the all-tube design would work better with the 300-ohm Eikons. It definitely sounded better than both the Lyr and Mojo, bringing some of that sweetness and air to the treble, and some nice mid tones. Stock tubes were quite bright, but with NOS Amperex Orange Globes, the brightness was tamed and the sound was natural and slightly warm.  It lacked a bit in dynamics, but sounded good overall, especially for the price. I thought I’d leave it at that for a year or two, when I might be able to justify an upgrade into $1000+ territory, maybe Zach’s recommended Decware CSP.

But whenever I listened to my home system (rarely now, with 1yo twin boys running around), a dream all-Audio Note system (DAC3 into Oto Phono Signature driving AN-E HE LX), my Eikon rig sounded clearly “mid-fi”…  Everything - resolution, tonal color, dynamics, frequency extremes, soundstage - was good, but not where I wanted it to be.

And then CanJam came to NY…  I brought my Eikons and tried them with every amp I could, hoping to determine whether it was the amp that was holding the Eikons back, or whether the Eikons themselves were limited.

I quickly learned that the Eikons benefitted hugely from higher-end amps, but I didn't hear anything that blew me away until I got to the ZMF table, where I ended up spending most of my time at the show listening to Eikons driven by Zach’s Ampsandsound Mogwai SE, with some choice NOS tubes rolled in.  The combination was spellbinding!  All the technicalities were superb, but more importantly (and like my Audio Note system), it just sounded *right* - like real instruments and voices playing real music.  You just forgot about the reproduction chain and got lost in the music…  The Eikons could really soar!  *This* was what I wanted!

But it was $2500.  Waaaay out of my budget!

But I couldn’t stop thinking about that listening session, and how much I wanted that sound.  So, in a fit of financial recklessness (and with the help of PayPal Credit…) I bought it anyway.

It arrived last Friday, and I’ve spent most of my last two workdays listening to it (this is my office system).  Source is a MacBook Pro into Chord Mojo, which is a fantastic little DAC.

Even [literally] cold, it was clearly a whole new ballgame from the Valhalla (as it should be of course, costing 7x as much!!)  Huuuuge, wide open soundstage; rich, textured mids; sweet treble; thunderous, deep, clean bass.  I did find it a touch on the warm side for my tastes, and that warmth seemed to obscure some detail.  So after a couple hours of listening, I rolled in a NOS RCA 5U4GB rectifier tube that Zach recommended (the same one in his Mogwai SE at CanJam).  That really brought it to life, bringing the treble out, and adding to the overall clarity and openness.  It’s still a little warm, but not overly so, and I enjoy it that way.

I’ve already got the driver tube Zach recommended (again, from his CanJam setup) on order, an RCA 6SL7 - should arrive tomorrow.  I’m holding off on getting the power tubes he was using (GEC KT8C with adapters) as they’re $250..!  I’m hoping with the RCA rectifier and driver tubes in place, I’ll be happy for now..! 

One other interesting thing to note is the difference between the 32-ohm and 300-ohm jacks, with the Eikons.  The 32-ohm sounds tighter, more focused, denser, and a bit more midbass-forward, but I much prefer the 300-ohm - it sounds huge and expansive, with a lighter, more natural balance, with vocals more forward in the mix.  It’s frankly spooky how good the soundstage is - sounds come out of nowhere and seem to hang in the air around your head!  Love it.

So anyway, given the NOS rectifier and the 300-ohm tap, how does it sound currently?  In a word, phenomenal!  I had no idea the Eikons could sound so good - they’re clearly the best closed-back headphones to me (although the Sennheiser HD820s I heard at CanJam were excellent, but that’s another story - also they’re $1000 more!)

This is going to devolve into gushy word soup, but here goes…  The sound is huge, open, unrestrained, and totally natural.  Detail is present in spades, but isn’t thrust in your face or etched - it sounds like the real thing.  Treble is sweet, silky smooth, crisp, sparkly, and airy - this is the best treble I’ve heard from a headphone, open or closed.  Mids are slightly warm, but not overblown - beautiful and natural.  Bass is huge, clean, tight, punchy, and deep.  Tones and textures are dense and rich.  The sense of scale, on music that has it, is immense, combining that huge soundstage, huge power, huge dynamics, and deep, punchy bass!

It never seems to run out of steam either…  I was playing tracks on shuffle, and at one point went from a Vivaldi choral piece - mixed very low, so I had the volume cranked up - to Caribou’s “All I Ever Need”… the bass kick made me jump!  And I'm find myself gradually turning the volume up and up over time while listening - usually a good sign (though maybe not for my hearing). 

Anyway, I just wanted to add my voice to the chorus of praise for Ampsandsound’s amps, and the Mogwai SE in particular.  If you can afford the frankly eye-watering price of entry, you’ll be richly rewarded - especially if you’re up for a little tube rolling!  I found it interesting to learn how much entry-level amps were holding back the EIkons - it’s really a credit to ZMF that they scale so well.  I honestly think they’re among the best closed-back headphones you can buy.

I’ll update when the 6SL7 arrives, and also if I do end up taking the plunge for those KT8Cs…


----------



## ampsandsound

Ok. Here is my secret sauce tubes. 5U4 NOS. Pref RCA and a 6889 with adapter. These are the most impressive tubes I’ve ever seen. Not the last word in power but some of the tightest bottem end possible.


----------



## exdmd

desik said:


> Anyone got a chance to compare Kenzie Encore with something else same price range, like Zana Deux?



There aren't any direct comparisons of the Kenzie or Kenzie Encore to ZDS to be found. However the Eddie Current Aficionado (step up from Zana Deux S) and Mogwai SE have been favorably compared. Hope this helps.


----------



## exdmd (Mar 14, 2018)

dpump said:


> Justin,
> 
> Can you comment on using other tubes in place of the 12SL7 on the Kenzie? I noticed the 5755 mentioned above and wonder if there are others that can be used? I know an adaptor is needed. I have purchased a number of other adaptors from eBay for different tubes but I don't presently have one for the 5755.
> 
> You stated recently that you use the RCA 1626 and the Raytheon 2C52 in your Kenzie and wondered what other people were using or had tried. I tried a number of  12SL7's before settling on the Raytheon 2C52. 12SL7's tend to be microphonic and also added a bit of background noise. The 2C52 has less microphonics than 12SL7's and also almost eliminated background noise. I also think the 2C52 sounds a little better than the 12SL7's I tried. I'm also using RCA 1626. I tried one other brand of 1626 but couldn't tell much if any difference between it and the RCA. Interested to see if another tube used in place of the 2C52 can improve the sound and/or reduce the gain somewhat to allow more range on the volume control.



I think I have tried almost every input tube extant on my Kenzie. It is hard to find good 2C52s; I bought three and of the batch one was bad and the other two were no better than stock. After a few months of rolling I am using a 1963 Telefunken ECC801S (adaptor necessary) with Tung Sol 1626s. This tube combo provides the best sound to my ears from the Kenzie using either my HD800S on 300 Ohm tap or Elears on 32 Ohm.


----------



## 55Powers

Hi y'all.

What do the upgrade options on a Mogwai acctutally translate to for the listening experience?
What upgrades would be the most important?

1 - Coupling cap upgrade
2 - Input transformers
3 - Split RCA input transformer


----------



## exdmd (Mar 17, 2018)

If you decide to buy a Mogwai you should really consider a fully optioned Mogwai SE. The Special Edition has two sets of inputs only one has transformers. Not on the website yet just call Justin at Amps and Sound discuss your needs.


----------



## dunkyboy

exdmd said:


> If you decide to buy a Mogwai you should really consider a fully optioned Mogwai SE. Not on the website yet just call Justin at Amps and Sound discuss your needs.



Agreed, though with all options, the Mogwai SE tops out at (I think??) $2900..!!  I got the SE with uprated caps but without input transformers, so slightly less eye-watering but still excellent.

Dunc


----------



## exdmd

dunkyboy said:


> Agreed, though with all options, the Mogwai SE tops out at (I think??) $2900..!!  I got the SE with uprated caps but without input transformers, so slightly less eye-watering but still excellent.
> 
> Dunc



You only live once may as well go full tilt. I think you got the price right. I bought a base Kenzie and added the input transformers as an outboard box they are worth the money. When I bought my amp last year Mogwai SE was not even available yet. I know one member who likes his fully optioned Mogwai SE as much as his EC Aficionado. That is pretty good company.


----------



## omniweltall

exdmd said:


> You only live once may as well go full tilt. I think you got the price right. I bought a base Kenzie and added the input transformers as an outboard box they are worth the money. When I bought my amp last year Mogwai SE was not even available yet. I know one member who likes his fully optioned Mogwai SE as much as his EC Aficionado. That is pretty good company.


What difference to your base Kenzie did you notice with that input transformer? Is it a big difference?


----------



## bearwarrior

exdmd said:


> I think I have tried almost every input tube extant on my Kenzie. It is hard to find good 2C52s; I bought three and of the batch one was bad and the other two were no better than stock. After a few months of rolling I am using a 1963 Telefunken ECC801S (adaptor necessary) with Tung Sol 1626s. This tube combo provides the best sound to my ears from the Kenzie using either my HD800S on 300 Ohm tap or Elears on 32 Ohm.



Are you sure about 12AU7 installed on Kenzie? I remembered that Justin told me not to do that. The amplification factor is just much larger than 12AX7 and 12AT7.


----------



## 55Powers

dunkyboy said:


> Agreed, though with all options, the Mogwai SE tops out at (I think??) $2900..!!  I got the SE with uprated caps but without input transformers, so slightly less eye-watering but still excellent.
> 
> Dunc



Oh, would not mind going full tilt as a concept, but I tink it would be sloppy not to inquire on the specifics of the benefits of the last 1000 dollars.


----------



## exdmd (Mar 18, 2018)

bearwarrior said:


> Are you sure about 12AU7 installed on Kenzie? I remembered that Justin told me not to do that. The amplification factor is just much larger than 12AX7 and 12AT7.



Justin recommended the ECC801S on another forum. BTW ECC801S is 12AT7 not 12AU7. The only problem is price. You want a 1960's Telefunken Diamond Bottom. The tubes from the 1980's are inferior. 12AT7/12AU7/12AX7 all share same pin out.


----------



## ampsandsound

Some of my Favs for the high value purchaser. 
Raython 5755 with adapters are an amazing tube and cheap... They are JAN. 
Old Dynaco 12AX7s that are Teles are prob the best 12AX7 variant you can get. I still perfer the sonics of 12SL7s but they do take 2-3 tries at the apple before finding a gem. At $5-$10 each thats still more than acceptable. That said, its not a guarantee... lots of trial to find the true gem. 
Re the Kenzie and Encores... we are trying a bit of tube rolling and should have a report back in the next 14days... generally speaking new power tube to roll, 2x the power and same great sonics.


----------



## omniweltall (Dec 1, 2018)

ampsandsound said:


> Some of my Favs for the high value purchaser.
> Raython 5755 with adapters are an amazing tube and cheap... They are JAN.
> Old Dynaco 12AX7s that are Teles are prob the best 12AX7 variant you can get. I still perfer the sonics of 12SL7s but they do take 2-3 tries at the apple before finding a gem. At $5-$10 each thats still more than acceptable. That said, its not a guarantee... lots of trial to find the true gem.
> Re the Kenzie and Encores... we are trying a bit of tube rolling and should have a report back in the next 14days... generally speaking new power tube to roll, 2x the power and same great sonics.


What abt the mogwai? What tubes do you think would best fit? Im currently using Sophia Electric KT88 and 6SL7.


----------



## ZenErik

ampsandsound said:


> Some of my Favs for the high value purchaser.
> Raython 5755 with adapters are an amazing tube and cheap... They are JAN.
> Old Dynaco 12AX7s that are Teles are prob the best 12AX7 variant you can get. I still perfer the sonics of 12SL7s but they do take 2-3 tries at the apple before finding a gem. At $5-$10 each thats still more than acceptable. That said, its not a guarantee... lots of trial to find the true gem.
> Re the Kenzie and Encores... we are trying a bit of tube rolling and should have a report back in the next 14days... generally speaking new power tube to roll, 2x the power and same great sonics.


Looking forward to the tube rolling results. Definitely interested in trying a few recommended options in the future.

That said, while not all important to the sound, the 12SL7 looks so nice with the Encore compared to the other options mentioned so far. The shape and base of the tube fit the overall look of the amp + 1626 output tubes so well.


----------



## joespride

Just dropped in a new (ish) DAC Electrocompanient ECD-1 with Kenzie improved, sporting 1943 hytron military, and NOS 50's era amperex bugle boy with adapter. Sound is pretty amazing. Hard to imagine the sound getting better. I have a triplet of the Tung-sol 1626 what should I expect to improve with them in place ?


----------



## exdmd

I have both the Hytron and Tung Sol 1626. Hang on to those Tung Sols getting _*very *_hard to source. If there will be an alternate drop in power tube to the 1626 for the Kenzie that would be amazing. Matched Tung Sol 1626 have more bass and larger soundstage than Hytron to my ears. Better overall tube but like all tubes differences between batches.


----------



## ZenErik (Mar 28, 2018)

Going to give the Raytheon 2C52 a go with my Encore. Should have it on Saturday. Not really sure if I’ll like it more than the stock 12SL7 based on what I’ve read, but it was pretty cheap. I should get a few adapters sometime to increase the options.

I’ve also been looking at these Tung Sol 12SL7GTs with black glass. Anyone have any personal experience with them? Wonder if they’d be worth the money.

Edit: also picked up a RCA  JAN 12SL7GT from 1949. Tube rolling is dangerous.

I ordered a 2nd set of tubes when I got my Encore from Justin and just finally opened the second set of tubes. Hytron 1626 instead of Tung Sol. And National 12SL7 instead of a WU 12SL7. I'm not actually sure what WU stands for, but it's a neat logo.


----------



## exdmd

I will have a review of the Tung Sol black glass 12SL7GT next week. Tung Sol 1626s are very hard to source now. I have the pair in my Kenzie and a spare pair. Have not seen any for sale for months.


----------



## ampsandsound

The 2C52 is pretty rare tube and sounds amazing. 
Its one of a very few with a mu above 70. The 2C52 is beloved to have a Mu of 100 or close to... so it behaves like a 12AX7... moving the sound stage a bit forward. 
I normally love the relaxed non fatiguing sound of most 12SL7s but the 2C52 is special.
Among adapters... 5755 to 12SL7 and 12AX7 to 12SL7 are both worth owning. 
5751, 5755 and 12AT7 are a great pairings... each needing an adapter.


----------



## ZenErik

Suddenly I have 5 pairs of 1626, 4 12SL7, and 1 2C52. Only going to get worse if I buy a few adapters. Tubes were a mistake... No wonder solid state exists.

At least for now my stash will easily fit in the box the Encore came in.


----------



## exdmd

@ZenErik you can always sell your extra tubes on the market. Never hurts to have spares! Better to keep as an investment or for trading. IMO you aren't going to find a SS amp that sounds as good as your Encore unless Eddie Current _maybe_ makes another run of the Black Widow SS amp which may or may not happen. Black Widows that show up on the used market sell same day. Heck the few I have seen up for sale lately are gone within an hour or so.


----------



## ZenErik (Mar 29, 2018)

exdmd said:


> @ZenErik you can always sell your extra tubes on the market. Never hurts to have spares! Better to keep as an investment or for trading. IMO you aren't going to find a SS amp that sounds as good as your Encore unless Eddie Current _maybe_ makes another run of the Black Widow SS amp which may or may not happen. Black Widows that show up on the used market sell same day. Heck the few I have seen up for sale lately are gone within an hour or so.


Oh yea. I've got no plans on switching to solid state or buying any other amps for a long time. I am very happy with the Encore and not looking to continue the never ending journey of buying and selling gear. That said I'm sure eventually Justin will come along with a new model and tempt me.

I mainly got these tubes because they're fairly cheap. I'd like to see if there any I like a little better than others. I think whatever I like is going to be good for at least 2-3 years so the investment isn't too bad. Realistically I'm not expecting much variation on the output tubes. I have a feeling the Tung Sols I have now will be similar to the RCAs I have on the way? Could be wrong. The Hytron 1626s ended up being bad. Or at least one of them is. One of them seems so microphonic that there's always a hum from it. The other one seems okay. Because of that I'm glad I'm getting a few more 1626s. I want to be ready to go if/when whatever my main pair is starts going bad.

Both my 12SL7s seem fine. Just decided to try a RCA 12SL7 because it seemed to be well liked. Also got one labeled Dumont with coated glass because it was cheap in the same order with the RCA 1626 quad matched set.


----------



## joespride

Only 5 pairs,  Babe in the woods  I have 5 pair of hytrons alone (I have not found a problem with hum using them ( I dont have Encore) , I could play test a pair send your way for testing on your amp), The rca has an almost identical build with the tung sol, I also dont hear a lot of difference on output tubes. I wish I had all the tubes I sent Justins way  after I sold my original version of Kenzie.   He is a good guy though


----------



## bearwarrior

joespride said:


> Only 5 pairs,  Babe in the woods  I have 5 pair of hytrons alone (I have not found a problem with hum using them ( I dont have Encore) , I could play test a pair send your way for testing on your amp), The rca has an almost identical build with the tung sol, I also dont hear a lot of difference on output tubes. I wish I had all the tubes I sent Justins way  after I sold my original version of Kenzie.   He is a good guy though



May I ask what you mean by Kenzie improved in your gear list?


----------



## joespride

Current Kenzie with the upgraded caps version


----------



## bearwarrior

I see. Thanks!


----------



## ZenErik

joespride said:


> Only 5 pairs,  Babe in the woods  I have 5 pair of hytrons alone (I have not found a problem with hum using them ( I dont have Encore) , I could play test a pair send your way for testing on your amp), The rca has an almost identical build with the tung sol, I also dont hear a lot of difference on output tubes. I wish I had all the tubes I sent Justins way  after I sold my original version of Kenzie.   He is a good guy though


I don't think I want to build a collection as large as yours probably is. 

If you want to send a pair of Hytrons for testing that'd be cool, but I'm fairly certain it's just one of the tubes being extra microphonic. If I tap the table the amp is on it would sometimes ring forever if I didn't give the particular tube causing the issue a tap.


----------



## joespride

I had Justins first Kenzie for a test and ended up buying it after his SE84, I went tube crazy and had something like 20 pairs of hytrons and 18 of the NOS raytheon military 2c52 I was getting a life time supply. Life issues forced me to sell the amp and I sent Justin the majority of the tubes.  I was recently able to get Kenzie again and now I have about 10 pairs total, hytron, rca, tungsol, None of the military 2c52 (those are dam hard to get now I was only paying 10.00 each 4-5 years ago)...................Like all tubes they get scarce and the price goes through the roof.   I occasionally scan ebay for tubes but have not bought any for a long time, these adapters may force my hand I really like the sound of my amperex 12ax7 with adapter.  Those will be what I keep an eye out for mostly the 12ax7 vintage


----------



## ZenErik

joespride said:


> I had Justins first Kenzie for a test and ended up buying it after his SE84, I went tube crazy and had something like 20 pairs of hytrons and 18 of the NOS raytheon military 2c52 I was getting a life time supply. Life issues forced me to sell the amp and I sent Justin the majority of the tubes.  I was recently able to get Kenzie again and now I have about 10 pairs total, hytron, rca, tungsol, None of the military 2c52 (those are dam hard to get now I was only paying 10.00 each 4-5 years ago)...................Like all tubes they get scarce and the price goes through the roof.   I occasionally scan ebay for tubes but have not bought any for a long time, these adapters may force my hand I really like the sound of my amperex 12ax7 with adapter.  Those will be what I keep an eye out for mostly the 12ax7 vintage


I went a bit tube crazy yesterday and today, but now it's time to relearn self control. Got 3 more 12SL7s since my last post. Bringing the total to 7. The Raytheon 2C52 I ordered said mil-spec on the listing, but I'm not sure if that means they're the military ones you are referring to. I assume they are. Cost me double the price you said they used to go for but still not too bad.

I'm more so looking for a few tubes I find a little more 'special' than others rather than stocking enough for a lifetime or two, but I'm certainly happy to have a few spares as I'm not planning on swapping amps any time soon. 

I did go back and read the entire thread and saw the SE84. Looks like a cool amp. Too bad it's no longer offered.


----------



## Astral Abyss

ZenErik said:


> I did go back and read the entire thread and saw the SE84. Looks like a cool amp. Too bad it's no longer offered.



I think the SE84 and Leeloo are the (mostly) same amp.


----------



## exdmd

I am sure there is variation between lots of tubes but the Tung Sol 1626 I am using now have better SQ than any matched pair of RCA 1626 I have. I am curious to hear the Tung Sol black glass 12SL7GT next week. First time I would have all Tung Sol brand tubes in the Kenzie. I am very pleased with the Telefunken ECC801S I am using now so that Tung Sol 12SL7GT would have to sound exceptional to better it. And it is true, buy a tube amp you wind up with a collection of tubes


----------



## joespride

Leeloo is indeed the follow up to SE84, Anyone need tubes for leeloo


----------



## Astral Abyss

joespride said:


> Leeloo is indeed the follow up to SE84, Anyone need tubes for leeloo



I've got a Leeloo.  I've got tons of tubes, but maybe you have something I don't...


----------



## joespride

I will PM you


----------



## joespride

anyone want to go in half on a dozen NOS tung sol 1960's vintage 12sl7's guy wants 195.00 for 12


----------



## exdmd

Have to hear it first I have one tung sol 1960's vintage 12sl7 coming in this Saturday


----------



## ZenErik (Mar 29, 2018)

joespride said:


> anyone want to go in half on a dozen NOS tung sol 1960's vintage 12sl7's guy wants 195.00 for 12


potentially. Are they known to be pretty good? I ordered a few black glass Tung Sol 12SL7s earlier. I assume the ones you’re talking about are a different version. I don’t mind going in on a few potentially, but I don’t know about half.


----------



## joespride

no idea if they are known good or ?  seller describes as like tung sol 12ax7, short ribbed plates tall bottles with halo getter


----------



## exdmd

ZenErik said:


> potentially. Are they known to be pretty good? I ordered a few black glass Tung Sol 12SL7s earlier. I assume the ones you’re talking about are a different version. I don’t mind going in on a few potentially, but I don’t know about half.



Those Tung Sol 12SL7GT from the large lot are variously marked 322NZ3 or 322MK3 on the base and look different than the matched pair I purchased earlier:







May not be a concern but thought worth pointing out.


----------



## ZenErik (Mar 29, 2018)

exdmd said:


> Those Tung Sol 12SL7GT from the large lot are variously marked 322NZ3 or 322MK3 on the base and look different than the matched pair I purchased earlier:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yea. I'm getting that black glass variation as well. The Tung Sols Joe mentioned do look pretty interesting though. They're quite a bit taller than the other 12SL7s I've seen. I'm definitely interested in splitting 3 or 4 ways, but I don't know about going in for half. Alternatively if someone else goes in half I don't mind buying half of what they got.

Edit: Should also note that I think I was wrong about having a bad Hytron 1626, but I'll be doing a bit more testing. Seems like it might actually be the National 12SL7 that was causing the issues. I should have just replaced the input and output tubes separately instead of both at the same time. That said. One of them is still a bit more microphonic than I'd prefer, but it's not causing hum.


----------



## ZenErik (Mar 30, 2018)

Got in my Raytheon 2C52 in today, and I'm noticing what someone mentioned last year. Less microphonic than any of my three 12SL7s.

The 2C52 also doesn't produce this quiet sputtering noise in my HD650 like all my 12SL7s do on occasion. I wish I had other cables/full sized headphones to test as I feel like that issue might not be 100% on the 12SL7. The stock HD650 cable is quite thin and perhaps a better cable wouldn't have this issue?

I haven't decided how I feel about the sound yet as it's only been 45 minutes or so and most of it not actually listening to anything. What I did listen to was pleasing enough. Perhaps a little bit more in your face than the 12SL7. Maybe slightly more bass? I'll have to listen to more things before I really conclude anything, but I'm definitely happy to have an input tube that's less microphonic and solving a minor issue I've been experiencing. Depending on whether or not the Auteur makes that same sputtering noise with a 12SL7 I may need to pick up a few extra 2C52s in the future.

The upside and downside about the 2C52 is that I’ve only seen this one Raytheon 2C52 being sold. Does nothing else exist?


----------



## exdmd

2C52s are getting rare and in my trials not that much better than stock. Bottom of the barrel perhaps. Might have gotten some from mediocre batches. Rather than collecting 12SL7GTs get a 1960's Telefunken ECC801S and adaptor and be done with rolling input tubes.


----------



## ZenErik

exdmd said:


> 2C52s are getting rare and in my trials not that much better than stock. Bottom of the barrel perhaps. Might have gotten some from mediocre batches. Rather than collecting 12SL7GTs get a 1960's Telefunken ECC801S and adaptor and be done with rolling input tubes.


The point wasn't to declare the 2C52 to be the greatest input tube for the Encore. I was mostly noting that the 2C52 seems to resolve an issue I've been having when listening with my HD650. Compared to the 12SL7 I don't think I'd call the 2C52 an upgrade now that I've done a bit more listening. It's just a different flavor option that may or may not resolve an issue for some people in addition.


----------



## joespride

I was reading on another forum about Kenzie, They were debating which tap to use for Sennheiser HD800. I thought the 600 was what Justin had recommended. I decided to try 32ohm tap, I can tell you I have no intentions of going back to 600 ohm tap. The sound difference was HUGE  Much more Musical and involving with no apparent loss in detail or extension. I had started to think my new DAC was a mistake I have been in the NOS camp for years I had the chance to get the ECD-1 for a good price. I jumped on it (reminiscing of the EMC-1 I had years ago)  Now I am SOOOOOOOOOOO Happy I got it


----------



## ZenErik (Mar 31, 2018)

joespride said:


> I was reading on another forum about Kenzie, They were debating which tap to use for Sennheiser HD800. I thought the 600 was what Justin had recommended. I decided to try 32ohm tap, I can tell you I have no intentions of going back to 600 ohm tap. The sound difference was HUGE  Much more Musical and involving with no apparent loss in detail or extension. I had started to think my new DAC was a mistake I have been in the NOS camp for years I had the chance to get the ECD-1 for a good price. I jumped on it (reminiscing of the EMC-1 I had years ago)  Now I am SOOOOOOOOOOO Happy I got it


I have no idea about the 600ohm tap as I don't have one, but I can say that I prefer my HD650 from the 300ohm tap over the 32ohm tap. It's a very good match. Unfortunately don't have a HD800S anymore to offer an opinion on that.

I've never heard the ECD-1, but it looks pretty. Using a NOS DAC myself currently. I love the warmer sound and find it less fatiguing, but with the Encore I'm curious about how a D/S or Schiit multibit would sound. The Encore might be warm enough on its own that a NOS DAC is less 'necessary' to me.

Also got in a matched pair of RCA 1626. Can't say I really notice a difference from my Tung Sols, but I'm still glad to have another good pair since my Hytrons aren't really usable by my standards.


----------



## joespride

I would skip the multibit, I had 1 here and ended up with a headache in under 1 hour, very fatiguing. The Electrocompanient is the only D/S upsampling DAC i have ever liked,  Several years ago I had the EMC 1 Cd Player and was astounded how vinyl like it sounded. I have kept a weather eye out for one ever since selling. 2 weeks ago this dac (which is the same dac as in the players) popped up on A-gon under a grand I could not pass up the opportunity to try one.  It ousted My long time reference MHDT Havana upgraded, and a Red Wine Bellina Reference. They both sounded great but my setup is at a whole new level.  I am sure there are better DACs out there I am also positive one would cost MUCH MUCH MORE and for how much improvement ?


----------



## ZenErik

joespride said:


> I would skip the multibit, I had 1 here and ended up with a headache in under 1 hour, very fatiguing. The Electrocompanient is the only D/S upsampling DAC i have ever liked,  Several years ago I had the EMC 1 Cd Player and was astounded how vinyl like it sounded. I have kept a weather eye out for one ever since selling. 2 weeks ago this dac (which is the same dac as in the players) popped up on A-gon under a grand I could not pass up the opportunity to try one.  It ousted My long time reference MHDT Havana upgraded, and a Red Wine Bellina Reference. They both sounded great but my setup is at a whole new level.  I am sure there are better DACs out there I am also positive one would cost MUCH MUCH MORE and for how much improvement ?


Sounds like a nice deal. I've honestly never heard a D/S DAC that sounds like you're describing, but I'd love to. Partly why I went over to NOS. Makes me curious about the ECD-1 and maybe ECD-2 as well though I'll probably stick with my Onyx

By the way, did the price on that dozen Tung Sol 12SL7 listing go up? I thought it was under $200 before, but now it's $275? PM'd you a few days ago if you still wanna go in on those. Might not be worth it anymore unless they're willing to go lower?


----------



## joespride

Yes the seller increased the price, I am not willing to spend the new $$$ and frankly I am so happy with the sound I have now I am thinking my tube rolling is over. If you were close enough I would let you audition the DAC...............Joe


----------



## ZenErik

joespride said:


> Yes the seller increased the price, I am not willing to spend the new $$$ and frankly I am so happy with the sound I have now I am thinking my tube rolling is over. If you were close enough I would let you audition the DAC...............Joe


It's great to be happy with what you have and not have the urge to keep looking for something that may or may not be better for you out there. I plan on trying things I find cheap enough if they look interesting or are a different brand, but I am pretty content with my current setup. Some of the 12SL7s I see around are a lot shorter or taller. There are the coin base ones as well. Seems worth a shot if they're $10-15 each.

Where are you located? I'm assuming not around Boston, MA.


----------



## 55Powers

Anyone got some pointers on tube advice for the Mogwai SE?

I was thinking starting off on:
- 6550s Tung Sol variant for the output slots (would really like some good options here, these seem kinda hard to source)
- 6SL7 RCA grey glass / Sylvania JAN for the input slot
- 5u4g RCA black plates=<1943 for the rectifier slot


----------



## exdmd (Apr 1, 2018)

55Powers said:


> Anyone got some pointers on tube advice for the Mogwai SE?
> 
> I was thinking starting off on:
> - 6550s Tung Sol variant for the output slots (would really like some good options here, these seem kinda hard to source)
> ...



I believe stock tubes for the Mogwai SE are JJ KT88s, JJ 6SL7 and new Mullard GZ34. May have changed but I think Justin uses Mullard 5AR4 (expensive!) rectifier, Tung-Sol 6L6GC STR power and input JJ 6SL7 on his personal amp. Power output on the 6L6GC STR is half of KT88 I think take into consideration.

Some Mogwai SE owners like NOS 6550 tubes and Cossor rectifier. Before you drop too much money on tubes I would call or email Justin and ask for his recommendation based on your phones and SQ preference.

If you really want the Tung Sol 6550 suggest you get these before someone else does. Tubes noted as (!!!!) are top SQ and tend to sell fast.


----------



## omniweltall

exdmd said:


> I believe stock tubes for the Mogwai SE are JJ KT88s, JJ 6SL7 and new Mullard GZ34. May have changed but I think Justin uses Mullard 5AR4 (expensive!) rectifier, Tung-Sol 6L6GC STR power and input JJ 6SL7 on his personal amp. Power output on the 6L6GC STR is half of KT88 I think take into consideration.
> 
> Some Mogwai SE owners like NOS 6550 tubes and Cossor rectifier. Before you drop too much money on tubes I would call or email Justin and ask for his recommendation based on your phones and SQ preference.
> 
> If you really want the Tung Sol 6550 suggest you get these before someone else does. Tubes noted as (!!!!) are top SQ and tend to sell fast.


Do these Tung Sol 6550 have equal power to Kt-88 tubes?


----------



## exdmd

omniweltall said:


> Do these Tung Sol 6550 have equal power to Kt-88 tubes?



Probably close. In the right circuit the KT88 could put out more power. These are both popular in guitar amps.


----------



## ampsandsound (Apr 1, 2018)

We have alternating between the JJ 6CA7s, JJ KT88s and Sovtek 6550s. 
The 6SL7 remains JJ and a pretty amazing tube all in all.
Rectification is either the Mullard 5AR4 or the EH 5U4.
Im not a fan of the JJ 5U4s.
I try to steer people to the 5u4 family initially as it offers such an abundance of NOS choices on the cheap.
The 5U4 significantly drops the power down but add a but more wetness to the sound.
There are a lot of places to roll and personalize your sound.

Now if youre going for the gusto... the 6889s with adapters is about as bad-ass NOS as they get.
Not the last work in power, but prob the tightest/cleanest bass to be had. Insane tube life too.


----------



## ampsandsound

My power tube choices are Tunsol 6l6gc STR, JJ KT88, JJ 6CA7 and NOS Bendix 6889s.


----------



## joespride

ZenErik said:


> It's great to be happy with what you have and not have the urge to keep looking for something that may or may not be better for you out there. I plan on trying things I find cheap enough if they look interesting or are a different brand, but I am pretty content with my current setup. Some of the 12SL7s I see around are a lot shorter or taller. There are the coin base ones as well. Seems worth a shot if they're $10-15 each.
> 
> Where are you located? I'm assuming not around Boston, MA.



I am way down south, the southern most tip of North Carolina,  A few years ago I was much closer. Working in DC, Lived in Pa.  I will always be willing to listen to new setups it will take 1 hell of a sound to improve on what I hear now.  I want to try OTL again  They are supposed to shine with HD800, I had the Valhalla with HD650 and at times it was holographic I have a very well reviewed MicroZOTL on the way I am pretty confident it will be resold or relegated to preamp duty allowing me to have digital and vinyl at the push of a button (I am already set up like that using shiit sys, with schiit Mani) but a tube pre would be awesome  Joe


----------



## omniweltall (Apr 2, 2018)

Hi


ampsandsound said:


> My power tube choices are Tunsol 6l6gc STR, JJ KT88, JJ 6CA7 and NOS Bendix 6889s.


Justin,

Which one of these have the biggest power?

Have you ever tried Sophia Electric KT88? Wondering if it is better than JJ KT88.

Thanks


----------



## ampsandsound

Most power will be from a KT88, then KT77, 6CA7, EL34, KT66, 6L6GC. 
Ive tried the PSvane and hated the sound. I havnt tried the Sophia KT88s. The Sophia 300bs are pretty amazing.


----------



## 55Powers

exdmd said:


> I believe stock tubes for the Mogwai SE are JJ KT88s, JJ 6SL7 and new Mullard GZ34. May have changed but I think Justin uses Mullard 5AR4 (expensive!) rectifier, Tung-Sol 6L6GC STR power and input JJ 6SL7 on his personal amp. Power output on the 6L6GC STR is half of KT88 I think take into consideration.
> 
> Some Mogwai SE owners like NOS 6550 tubes and Cossor rectifier. Before you drop too much money on tubes I would call or email Justin and ask for his recommendation based on your phones and SQ preference.
> 
> If you really want the Tung Sol 6550 suggest you get these before someone else does. Tubes noted as (!!!!) are top SQ and tend to sell fast.



Mostly felt like doing 6550s as they seem like the most viable classic NOS full size/coke bottle option. I think NOS KT88 are a bit too hardcore for me to start out on.
Thank you so much for showing me this site and for your input, will be following the 6550s closely as well as the Cossor. 
I have some weeks untill the amp is built, so not in a hurry, just need to get my bearings.

Will also try to pick up an STR pair while I am at it.



ampsandsound said:


> We have alternating between the JJ 6CA7s, JJ KT88s and Sovtek 6550s.
> The 6SL7 remains JJ and a pretty amazing tube all in all.
> Rectification is either the Mullard 5AR4 or the EH 5U4.
> Im not a fan of the JJ 5U4s.
> ...



How much of a power drop comes with NOS 5U4s compared to 5AR4s (I am too new to this to math it)?
Do you have like a compatability list for the amp?
Will it take 274B type tubes by the way?



ampsandsound said:


> My power tube choices are Tunsol 6l6gc STR, JJ KT88, JJ 6CA7 and NOS Bendix 6889s.



The STR seems like a fail safe tube to pick up at least, great stuff.


----------



## zach915m

55Powers said:


> Mostly felt like doing 6550s as they seem like the most viable classic NOS full size/coke bottle option.



I have a set of RCA Branded 6550's (they are probably tung-sol Leslie's I was told) that are near the top of my favorites with the Mogwai SE.  Those and the converted Kt8c's get the most power tube use for me.  Both quiet with great tone, liquidity and resolve.  And they have that sexy coke bottle shape.


----------



## 55Powers

zach915m said:


> I have a set of RCA Branded 6550's (they are probably tung-sol Leslie's I was told) that are near the top of my favorites with the Mogwai SE.  Those and the converted Kt8c's get the most power tube use for me.  Both quiet with great tone, liquidity and resolve.  And they have that sexy coke bottle shape.



Oh yes, on board that tube curves matter.

Do you have 3-hole, or flat black/grey plates on your 6550s Zach?
Also, If you don't mind sharing, what are you doing for rectifier / input?


----------



## joespride

Hey Justin, How do you feel about using the Microzotl as a pre amp paired with Kenzie

https://www.lineartubeaudio.com/products/mz2mz2-s


----------



## exdmd

exdmd said:


> Those Tung Sol 12SL7GT from the large lot are variously marked 322NZ3 or 322MK3 on the base and look different than the matched pair I purchased earlier:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Got the Tung Sol 12SL7GT in today. No date markings on tube or box. Tubes marked Tung-Sol, Made In U.S.A, 322602-3. After a few hours warm up impression was it sounds like a good 12SL7GT a bit more bass than the usual but rolled off high end. Not much air around voices or instruments, shallow soundstage. Sounds a bit inferior to RCA from memory. Not as resolving as I am used to. Letting the tube cool down now putting the Telefunken ECC801S back in.


----------



## ZenErik (Apr 2, 2018)

exdmd said:


> Got the Tung Sol 12SL7GT in today. No date markings on tube or box. Tubes marked Tung-Sol, Made In U.S.A, 322602-3. After a few hours warm up impression was it sounds like a good 12SL7GT a bit more bass than the usual but rolled off high end. Not much air around voices or instruments, shallow soundstage. Sounds a bit inferior to RCA from memory. Not as resolving as I am used to. Letting the tube cool down now putting the Telefunken ECC801S back in.


Thanks for the impressions. I got in two of these Tung Sol 12SL7GTs today. The boxes are a little different on mine, but they look the same. 322926 on the one that’s not currently in the amp.

Our impressions are quite different, but I haven’t done much music listening yet. Just a few songs. Playing The Witcher 3. I think it sounds great so far. Compared to the 2C52 that was in there it’s a little less forward as expected. No noise issues like some of my other 12SL7s. I got a grey plate RCA in today too, but it does have the noise I’ve previously mentioned.

Based on memory I don’t think it really sounds very different than the other 12SL7s I’ve used, but I’d have to do some more direct comparisons. I have my doubts that any 12SL7 can live up to the standards you’ve set with your Telefunken.


----------



## Loose-Leaf (Apr 2, 2018)

zach915m said:


> I have a set of RCA Branded 6550's (they are probably tung-sol Leslie's I was told) that are near the top of my favorites with the Mogwai SE.  Those and the converted Kt8c's get the most power tube use for me.  Both quiet with great tone, liquidity and resolve.  And they have that sexy coke bottle shape.


I have the full option Mogwai SE coming that’s interesting using KT8c as this turned out to be a unsuccessful tube way back in the day late 1930s early 40s ? if I remember the story and of course non audio application .
However Zachary if you find it sounding great in the Mogwai that would be a bonus ! because of cost apposed to the ever more expensive and hard to get decent Tungsol 6550
Well I’ll have to do some shopping for some Kt8cs ,.


----------



## exdmd

I remember Justin recommending the ECC801S on another forum but @cute here really encouraged me in that direction. The mistake I made was first buying a tube made in the '80's by Siemens. You have to go back to the '60s tubes. The Telefunken ECC801S is rated for 10,000 hours so chances are much higher I would move to a Mogwai SE than need to buy another input tube. Not tired of the Kenzie at all. Probably should have gone for the fully optioned Encore considering the extra money I have put into input transformers and tubes. But consider you can get a base Kenzie for $1700 delivered forgo the input transformers and just buy the Telefunken ECC801S and have a very resolving tube amp with excellent imaging and soundstage for under $2000. Also realize I use 300 Ohm HD800S. Get a Loki for $149 for EQ call it a day, just enjoy the music.


----------



## Loose-Leaf

exdmd said:


> I remember Justin recommending the ECC801S on another forum but @cute here really encouraged me in that direction. The mistake I made was first buying a tube made in the '80's by Siemens. You have to go back to the '60s tubes. The Telefunken ECC801S is rated for 10,000 hours so chances are much higher I would move to a Mogwai SE than need to buy another input tube. Not tired of the Kenzie at all. Probably should have gone for the fully optioned Encore considering the extra money I have put into input transformers and tubes. But consider you can get a base Kenzie for $1700 delivered forgo the input transformers and just buy the Telefunken ECC801S and have a very resolving tube amp with excellent imaging and soundstage for under $2000. Also realize I use 300 Ohm HD800S. Get a Loki for $149 for EQ call it a day, just enjoy the music.


I saw a lovely pair new in the original factory boxes $1,000. ,...


----------



## ZenErik

Don't worry. I still have my eyes on the Telefunken ECC801S. I'm just not ready to spend that much on a tube right now. Before I do that sort of thing I'd like to resolve my ground loop issue. To me that's a little more important than a $200+ input tube. But once everything is sorted out the ECC801S will likely be near the top of the list for me.


----------



## Loose-Leaf

ZenErik said:


> Don't worry. I still have my eyes on the Telefunken ECC801S. I'm just not ready to spend that much on a tube right now. Before I do that sort of thing I'd like to resolve my ground loop issue. To me that's a little more important than a $200+ input tube. But once everything is sorted out the ECC801S will likely be near the top of the list for me.


Well you can buy them cheaper as you know these were real old stock with the old style Telefunken boxes with the long tabs , really nice Telefunken tubes


----------



## ZenErik

Loose-Leaf said:


> Well you can buy them cheaper as you know these were real old stock with the old style Telefunken boxes with the long tabs , really nice Telefunken tubes


Yea. I'm willing to spend $200-250 if/when I go for it. But it'll probably be a ways off. I think I'm done buying extra 1626 and 12SL7 for a while too. Have a few RCA 12SL7 I got today to return. I need to be more careful about what sellers I trust on eBay. There's another website I've been buying from that I actually trust. Should just check their stock every once in a while if I feel the urge.


----------



## exdmd

ZenErik said:


> Yea. I'm willing to spend $200-250 if/when I go for it. But it'll probably be a ways off. I think I'm done buying extra 1626 and 12SL7 for a while too. Have a few RCA 12SL7 I got today to return. I need to be more careful about what sellers I trust on eBay. There's another website I've been buying from that I actually trust. Should just check their stock every once in a while if I feel the urge.



Same here. Don't think I will be buying tubes on eBay anymore there are better options. Hope you get the ground loop sorted soon.


----------



## ampsandsound

I wanted to give everyone an old new idea. 
12B4A tubes will work as drop in with an adapter. 
The adapters have become very common on eBay ~$10 each... $25 for 2 to your door. 
The 12B4A is an amazing tube, its different but sounds amazing.
The 12B4A tubes are VERY inexpensive and NOS. 
And Oh by the way... they nearly double your power out.
Measures are from a brand new Encore 8/32 with input transformers and caps headed to a customer. 
On av. there will be ~10% more power after break-in. 
As good 1626 are still easy to get, its not such an issue but its fun to roll.


----------



## omniweltall

ampsandsound said:


> I wanted to give everyone an old new idea.
> 12B4A tubes will work as drop in with an adapter.
> The adapters have become very common on eBay ~$10 each... $25 for 2 to your door.
> The 12B4A is an amazing tube, its different but sounds amazing.
> ...


Thanks Justin. Pse let us know if you have great ideas like this for Mogwai users too


----------



## exdmd

Already ordered a matched pair of 12B4A tubes and adapters. Tubes only take a few days, the adapters ship from Hong Kong. Should have impressions by end of this month. Should be fun to hear a different power tube than the 1626.


----------



## cute

exdmd said:


> Already ordered a matched pair of 12B4A tubes and adapters. Tubes only take a few days, the adapters ship from Hong Kong. Should have impressions by end of this month. Should be fun to hear a different power tube than the 1626.



What mfg tubes did you get?  I ordered a matched pair of Tung Sol from a seller a few miles north of here.  Too bad the wait for the adapters is three weeks.


----------



## ampsandsound

tubesandmore has them for ~$6 each.
(NOS and amazing sounding... bit more lowend punch.)


----------



## exdmd

cute said:


> What mfg tubes did you get?  I ordered a matched pair of Tung Sol from a seller a few miles north of here.  Too bad the wait for the adapters is three weeks.



1% matched pair 12B4A GE NOS 1960's.


----------



## cute

exdmd said:


> 1% matched pair 12B4A GE NOS 1960's.



Mine are Tung Sol NOS, 1960's.  Currently one of my headphones are Kennerton Vali, most bass I have ever heard on an open back dynamic.  The 12B4A are supposed to emphasize the low end.  My fear would be too much low end, but that may help the HD800/800S.


----------



## exdmd

cute said:


> Mine are Tung Sol NOS, 1960's.  Currently one of my headphones are Kennerton Vali, most bass I have ever heard on an open back dynamic.  The 12B4A are supposed to emphasize the low end.  My fear would be too much low end, but that may help the HD800/800S.



I have a Schiit Loki between my DAC and Kenzie. Right now using 1626 with HD800S phones I need to boost the bass (20 Hz) turning the pot to 3 PM. I imagine the Loki could correct any bass emphasis with the 12B4A. Have to wait for the adapters to get here from Hong Kong. I look forward to an inexpensive experiment.


----------



## buke9

ampsandsound said:


> I wanted to give everyone an old new idea.
> 12B4A tubes will work as drop in with an adapter.
> The adapters have become very common on eBay ~$10 each... $25 for 2 to your door.
> The 12B4A is an amazing tube, its different but sounds amazing.
> ...


 Will those also work on the original Kenzie? I’m in the need of a little more power as just scored a pair of AB-1266’s (The Abyss) for a sweet price and the Kenzie does pretty good but more power would definitely help. My notifications keep dropping off so I have missed out on a lot of this thread. Love to make a sweet amp even sweeter.


----------



## ampsandsound

Sure will. Will nearly double your power. 



buke9 said:


> Will those also work on the original Kenzie? I’m in the need of a little more power as just scored a pair of AB-1266’s (The Abyss) for a sweet price and the Kenzie does pretty good but more power would definitely help. My notifications keep dropping off so I have missed out on a lot of this thread. Love to make a sweet amp even sweeter.


----------



## buke9

ampsandsound said:


> Sure will. Will nearly double your power.


 That is awesome thanks Justin. Love having more options for such a great amp.


----------



## joespride

Sold Kenzie but have a large assortment of Vintage NOS tubes and adapters I dont need now If anyone is looking I am posting and add in for sale area


----------



## buke9

joespride said:


> Sold Kenzie but have a large assortment of Vintage NOS tubes and adapters I dont need now If anyone is looking I am posting and add in for sale area


 Awesome hope some are left after I get back from vacation.


----------



## buke9

That was quick.


----------



## joespride

Yes they went quick some nice tubes in the mix


----------



## smodtactical

Seems people often sell their ampandsound tube amps. Why is this?


----------



## ZenErik

smodtactical said:


> Seems people often sell their ampandsound tube amps. Why is this?


People often sell all sorts all sorts of audio gear. Part of the hobby. Were it not for the Encore not playing nicely with the crappy power in my home I would most definitely still be using it.


----------



## cute

exdmd said:


> I have a Schiit Loki between my DAC and Kenzie. Right now using 1626 with HD800S phones I need to boost the bass (20 Hz) turning the pot to 3 PM. I imagine the Loki could correct any bass emphasis with the 12B4A. Have to wait for the adapters to get here from Hong Kong. I look forward to an inexpensive experiment.



Did you get the adapters for the 12B4A's yet?  Mine will be here tomorrow, interested to hear your impressions.


----------



## exdmd

cute said:


> Did you get the adapters for the 12B4A's yet?  Mine will be here tomorrow, interested to hear your impressions.



Not yet should have by the weekend. If they do get here by Saturday will post impressions on Sunday.


----------



## cute

Got the adapters for the 12B4A's.  Trying to get initial impressions using my Denon/Fostex w/Lawton mods and cups.  Noticed so far, bass has tightened up, more pop and texture on the low end.  Also, more detailed than the Tung Sol 1626, in my setup.  don't think I will be going back to the 1626 variants any time soon.  Have been using a Raytheon 5755 preamp tube.  12B4A's are Tung Sol NOS from the 1960's, Raytheion 5755 NOS from the 1960's.

Bass is deep with thump that can be felt in your chest, haven't had this type of bass impact with my Kenzie previously, deep sub bass is quick and tight, and doesn't interfere with the mids, really enjoying t'she new Kenzie sound.  Still need to experiment with other preamp tubes at some point, don't really care for the 12SL7's or 2C52's since getting in to the 9 pin preamp tubes with adapters.

Can definitely tell that the 12B4A's deliver more power that the 1626's!


----------



## exdmd

Not my experience with the 12B4A today unfortunately. Matched pair of GE's from the 60's sonically inferior to the RCA 1626 in my system. May have received bad tubes if so first time from my usual source. Still using a 1963 Telefunken ECC801S for input. Had to put the RCA 1626 back in to get the magic back.


----------



## cute

I thought I sold you a pair of Tung Sol 1626, maybe someone else?


----------



## exdmd (May 7, 2018)

You did one died had to use my backup pair which did not sound as good as RCA 1626. Just using the best RCA 1626 I can source.

Ordered a second matched pair 12B4A from a different supplier to try again. Should have by the weekend.


----------



## ampsandsound

12B4A/5755 is a SOLID combo.


----------



## exdmd

Can same convertor for ECC801S > 12SL7GT be used for 5755 or is this convertor necessary?


----------



## cute

You need the converter you have linked, or similar.


----------



## exdmd

Thanks @cute what I thought. I'll try the 12B4A/5755 to see how it compares to my favorite ECC801S/1626 in my rig. Takes a couple weeks to get the converter.


----------



## buke9

I never get heads up on this thread and it says I’m sub’ed . Love the talk of the 12B4A’s and not too expensive to try out. Will wait to hear more impressions of the different tubes as I’m waiting for credit card bills to come in from 10 days in Greece so it will be a bit (I recommend a visit there as the country side and food and people are so lovely 25th anniversary epic trip). I’ll sneak in a adapter or so in the next couple of weeks and then decide on a tube to buy. Still really like the Raytheon 5755 as input.


----------



## exdmd (May 14, 2018)

OK second try, this time with a matched pair of CBS branded/Hytron 12B4A's today. Very forward midrange with a hard edge to vocals that drilled a hole in my head. No depth to sound stage and lack of air around voices and instruments. Sounded like timbres were off. When I can't enjoy Diana Krall on Tidal there is a problem. The reason you invest in a "Holy Grail" Telefunken ECC801S input tube is to get the natural midrange, sound stage and air and the 12B4A's do not play nice with the Telefunken, took away all the great sound I am used to. Not sure where the problem lies but with my input tube, DAC+ and HD800S phones 12B4A's are a no go. After cool down I put the RCA 1626's back in. I think I am done with rolling power tubes in my Kenzie and am sticking to 1626's. At least the experiment was inexpensive. YMMV.

Surely my experience is not unique. Based on my trial I don't think you can count on the 12B4A as a direct replacement for the 1626. @ampsandsound can you duplicate my results at your shop?


----------



## exdmd

Discovered that the 12B4A *do not* like being driven by the Telefunken ECC801S for some unknown reason. Substituting a good 12SL7GT corrects most of the sound quality problems I encountered. However in my rig I went back to the 1626 and Telefunken as that combination provides the best sound I have heard from my Kenzie. Have not tried the 12B4A/5755 yet, still waiting for convertor from HK.


----------



## EDWARIS

I see here new Agartha 2.0? any comments, what is new, what is better?


----------



## ampsandsound

8,32,300 ohm 1/4” jacks.  
Revised transformers. 
Revised power supply. 
Blessed by Elves. Keebler style.


----------



## exdmd

Finally tried the 12B4A/5755 with two different brands of matched 12B4A's and a very good 1950's Western Electric clear top 5755/420A using the convertor. First thing I noticed was soft bass: bass was there but sounded soft with no punch or heft. This was with either matched pair. I only had the one 5755 to try. Mids and treble were fine and the sound stage with GE tubes had good depth. Took the 12B4A's out put the 1626 back in and bass returned to normal. In my rig the 5755 sounded no better than a good 12SL7GT so the 12B4A/5755 is not for everyone. It is not that expensive to try out and your experience may be different than mine. Seems system dependent. 

I lucked into a particularly nice matched pair of RCA 1626 from 1943 that came in an RCA box, not the generic wartime beige boxes you normally see. These are the best sounding RCA 1626 I have ever heard and are very close to Tung-Sol. I picked them up on eBay and when I heard how fine the SQ was they were already sold out. Had some bad luck with tubes on eBay so I never buy more than one pair to try out first, this was one case I should have stocked up. Go figure. Not trying to discourage anyone from trying the 12B4A/5755 might work just fine with your DAC and phones.


----------



## EDWARIS

ampsandsound said:


> 8,32,300 ohm 1/4” jacks.
> Revised transformers.
> Revised power supply.
> Blessed by Elves. Keebler style.



 cool, thank you) I see it can drive speakers as well? what kind of speakers would be good?

and what is dimensions and weight of this amp? I am thinking about new tube amp for me, preferable 300b or 2a3, this one definitely in my short list.


----------



## buke9

exdmd said:


> Finally tried the 12B4A/5755 with two different brands of matched 12B4A's and a very good 1950's Western Electric clear top 5755/420A using the convertor. First thing I noticed was soft bass: bass was there but sounded soft with no punch or heft. This was with either matched pair. I only had the one 5755 to try. Mids and treble were fine and the sound stage with GE tubes had good depth. Took the 12B4A's out put the 1626 back in and bass returned to normal. In my rig the 5755 sounded no better than a good 12SL7GT so the 12B4A/5755 is not for everyone. It is not that expensive to try out and your experience may be different than mine. Seems system dependent.
> 
> I lucked into a particularly nice matched pair of RCA 1626 from 1943 that came in an RCA box, not the generic wartime beige boxes you normally see. These are the best sounding RCA 1626 I have ever heard and are very close to Tung-Sol. I picked them up on eBay and when I heard how fine the SQ was they were already sold out. Had some bad luck with tubes on eBay so I never buy more than one pair to try out first, this was one case I should have stocked up. Go figure. Not trying to discourage anyone from trying the 12B4A/5755 might work just fine with your DAC and phones.


 I was just looking at the more power output aspect of the combo as I would love a bit more power for my Abyss as they do pretty well with the Kenzie but a bit more power would be just the thing as they bring the bass on their own and maybe softening up a bit would not be a bad thing.


----------



## exdmd (Jun 1, 2018)

You could be right, just have to buy the tubes and convertors and try for yourself. You might find the 12B4A/5755 work well with your Abyss. Does take a couple of weeks to get the convertors from Hong Kong. The three tube convertors you can get off eBay; add in tubes total cost about $100.


----------



## buke9

exdmd said:


> You could be right, just have to buy the tubes and convertors and try for yourself. You might find the 12B4A/5755 work well with your Abyss. Does take a couple of weeks to get the convertors from Hong Kong. The three tube convertors you can get off eBay; add in tubes total cost about $100.


 I really appreciate your intup on this. I love negative comments on things if they put it in context. Yours wasn’t totally negative but you said what you didn’t like and I very much appreciate that. Different headphones can make all the difference. Most of mine are planars so could be the difference.


----------



## exdmd (Jun 2, 2018)

buke9 said:


> I really appreciate your intup on this. I love negative comments on things if they put it in context. Yours wasn’t totally negative but you said what you didn’t like and I very much appreciate that. Different headphones can make all the difference. Most of mine are planars so could be the difference.



Thanks! I just try to report what I am hearing and we need more Kenzie/Encore owners trying the 12B4A/5755 and posting their experience. Justin builds great tube amps at very competitive prices and ships fast. My Kenzie build only took a month and Justin is a pleasure to work with. My rig is sounding so good now that I pretty much consider it end game. I have zero desire to upgrade anything which is pretty rare for an audiophile

I read such good posts (many on another forum I can't link to from here: the moderators don't approve and will delete) about the fully optioned Mogwai SE I would love the chance to compare it to my Kenzie. Could be dangerous though as my audiophile nervosa now in remission might relapse.


----------



## buke9

exdmd said:


> Thanks! I just try to report what I am hearing and we need more Kenzie/Encore owners trying the 12B4A/5755 and posting their experience. Justin builds great tube amps at very competitive prices and ships fast. My Kenzie build only took a month and Justin is a pleasure to work with. My rig is sounding so good now that I pretty much consider it end game. I have zero desire to upgrade anything which is pretty rare for an audiophile


Not saying this thread but too many rave about what they have and never mention the drawbacks as there is always something nothing is perfect. Yes I love the Kenzie also and only have heard a few that I like as well but at a much higher price as you said. Yes Justin is great to work with and is also a really nice guy met him at CanJam SoCal last year. He told me about the 5755 that he had found that works well with the Kenzie and said I should pm him for the adapter and I did looking to find where to buy it but no he sent me a tube and adapter that is loving what you do and wanting to share it.


----------



## Astral Abyss

buke9 said:


> Not saying this thread but too many rave about what they have and never mention the drawbacks as there is always something nothing is perfect. Yes I love the Kenzie also and only have heard a few that I like as well but at a much higher price as you said. Yes Justin is great to work with and is also a really nice guy met him at CanJam SoCal last year. He told me about the 5755 that he had found that works well with the Kenzie and said I should pm him for the adapter and I did looking to find where to buy it but no he sent me a tube and adapter that is loving what you do and wanting to share it.



I really like the Raytheon 5755 in my Leeloo.  I think my favorite tube is still the Raytheon windmill getter 5751 though.


----------



## ampsandsound

For what its worth, the 12B4A/5755 combo has been compelling for me when wanting a more neutral sound with more power. 
It might not be for everyone. Id agree with that for sure. The Kenzie doesn't have the breadth of rolling options, so having any options seems like a win.
On ebay, there are pairs of 12B4A for $18 shipped. The adapters are $25 for a pair shipped. So for $45 or so, you can nearly double the output and open yourself to roiling options. 
Ive seen 5-7 different 12B4A which is way cool. The draw of the 5755 is that they are 9pin. Though I truely love the 12SL7... they are more prone to microphonics than other tubes. 
5755s are about $10 shipped and the adapter are $15 for shipped... So for $75 you can now experiment with 2 different tube types. 

I dig the power, but hate adapters as a general rule... I end up switching back to my RCA 1626s.


----------



## ampsandsound

EDWARIS said:


> cool, thank you) I see it can drive speakers as well? what kind of speakers would be good?
> 
> and what is dimensions and weight of this amp? I am thinking about new tube amp for me, preferable 300b or 2a3, this one definitely in my short list.



15.5" wide by 11,5" deep. ~30lbs. 
Speaker recommendations: 96db and up but always matters what size room. We have a Kenzie 2ch amp pushing the snoot out of a KEF LS50 in the office. 
That said, Tekton Lore or Mini Lore Monitors, Zu Cube, Zu Dirty weekend. I use a pair of Zu Omen Deffs, The Soul Supreme's are pretty incredible and the Spatials all would pair really well. 
The Agartha will run just about any headphone other than IEMs with ease.


----------



## 55Powers (Jun 9, 2018)

Wow, new amp, Agartha 2 looks amazing Justin! Great to get more US-made 300B offerings.


----------



## me2621a

Hi Guys,
I am hoping some of you might own either the Kenzie Encore or the Mogwai SE and use them with Focal Utopias. Any chance you guys can tell me what you think. I am pretty close to deciding to purchase one and am trying to decide between the two. My goal is to have something powerful enough to drive the Utopias and the Ether Flows, with the utopias being the primary use. 

I would be coming from a Schiit Mjolnir 2 with Telefunken NOS tubes. Also hoping not to spend more then $200 total on tubes if tube rolling is suggested.


----------



## Rhamnetin

For those who don't know, ampsandsound has partnered with ZMF Headphones to release a new amp: the ZMF Pendant.

http://www.zmfheadphones.com/ampsanddacs/zmf-pendant


----------



## EagleWings (Jul 16, 2018)

me2621a said:


> Hi Guys,
> I am hoping some of you might own either the Kenzie Encore or the Mogwai SE and use them with Focal Utopias. Any chance you guys can tell me what you think. I am pretty close to deciding to purchase one and am trying to decide between the two. My goal is to have something powerful enough to drive the Utopias and the Ether Flows, with the utopias being the primary use.
> 
> I would be coming from a Schiit Mjolnir 2 with Telefunken NOS tubes. Also hoping not to spend more then $200 total on tubes if tube rolling is suggested.



Some people I have spoken to, who have tried both the amps, were more impressed with the SE than the Encore. Both amps should have more than enough power driving either Utopia or the Ether. SE is more powerful than the Encore, but its noise floor is also slightly higher than the Encore. Encore apparently has a slightly more romantic tone in the mid-range (just slightly). Where as the SE is slightly ahead in the technical aspects.

Their advise was '_if you have the budget, go for the SE_'. And Justin recommends 32/300 combo. I remember reading somewhere that the Utopia actually works well on the 300Ohm port.


----------



## 55Powers (Jul 17, 2018)

EagleWings said:


> Some people I have spoken to, who have tried both the amps, were more impressed with the SE than the Encore. Both amps should have more than enough power driving either Utopia or the Ether. SE is more powerful than the Encore, but its noise floor is also slightly higher than the Encore. Encore apparently has a slightly more romantic tone in the mid-range (just slightly). Where as the SE is slightly ahead in the technical aspects.
> 
> Their advise was '_if you have the budget, go for the SE_'. And Justin recommends 32/300 combo. I remember reading somewhere that the Utopia actually works well on the 300Ohm port.





EagleWings said:


> Some people I have spoken to, who have tried both the amps, were more impressed with the SE than the Encore. Both amps should have more than enough power driving either Utopia or the Ether. SE is more powerful than the Encore, but its noise floor is also slightly higher than the Encore. Encore apparently has a slightly more romantic tone in the mid-range (just slightly). Where as the SE is slightly ahead in the technical aspects.
> 
> Their advise was '_if you have the budget, go for the SE_'. And Justin recommends 32/300 combo. I remember reading somewhere that the Utopia actually works well on the 300Ohm port.



If you are getting a Mogwai SE:

The Mogwai SE comes with 3 jacks now, and as 8/32/300 standard (8 previously available through taps/banana adapter)



I personally *much* prefer the 8 ohm jack, and do probably around 75%/25% listening on 8/300 (yes, probably close to 0% on 32). ...and let's just say i was not surprised when the ZMF pendant was announced with default 8/300.
I absolutely think the 8 and the 300 are keepers, and the 8 being an absolute must to be honest.
I'd consider running a slightly higher Z on the middle Z jack (64 over 32) though, but that depends a bit on what kind of impedance headphones one thinks of running and wether or not for mid- or high Z.
FWIW, in hindsight I would probably do 8/64/300 as the Z effect of the 32 is a bit lackluster on a 300 ohm headphone for me.
There is no "right answer" here though.

FR/SPL of 800S on 1ohm-blue (Taurus 2), vs 8/32/300-yellow/red/green (Mogwai SE w input transformer):





Possible 32 ohm usage on the 50ohm rated Focal Clear. The Clear is not really something i'd prefer running on "high" Z at all, though but someone might like it:


----------



## me2621a

I am pretty excited, I actually just placed the order for the Mogwai SE with upgraded caps yesterday evening. Really interested to see what the Utopias sound like on this.


----------



## exdmd

@55Powers surprised to see a silver top plate on your Mogwai SE is that special order or standard now? The silver does look better than black IMO good choice. I was also under the impression that Justin was not able to take three taps off the output transformers. Seems he has been busy lately


----------



## 55Powers

exdmd said:


> @55Powers surprised to see a silver top plate on your Mogwai SE is that special order or standard now? The silver does look better than black IMO good choice. I was also under the impression that Justin was not able to take three taps off the output transformers. Seems he has been busy lately



Thanks, it's according to my flavor. Yeah, the top and base are somewhat custom. Saw the top on an old A&S picture, Justin made it haopen. I didn't know about the 3rd jack when i ordered it either, but turned out Justin had done some sweet design changes all along. Here's a shot with the base.


----------



## exdmd

Absolutely stunning @55Powers! That is the most gorgeous build I have seen to date from @ampsandsound. That is one heirloom for sure probably your end game amp.


----------



## Astral Abyss

55Powers said:


> Thanks, it's according to my flavor. Yeah, the top and base are somewhat custom. Saw the top on an old A&S picture, Justin made it haopen. I didn't know about the 3rd jack when i ordered it either, but turned out Justin had done some sweet design changes all along. Here's a shot with the base.



What wood type is that?  Looks really good with the white top.


----------



## ampsandsound (Jul 17, 2018)

It’s an ebony.
We have always offered custom veneers when asked. My favorites are rosewood and ebony.  
I got 400bd ft of birtch which will eventually make its way into rotation.   Maybe time to buy a saw stop.


----------



## 55Powers

ampsandsound said:


> It’s an ebony.
> We have always offered custom veneers when asked. My favorites are rosewood and ebony.
> I got 400bd ft of birtch which will eventually make its way into rotation.   Maybe time to buy a saw stop.



Yeah, big ups on the execution Justin. Will be staying on this amazing piece of audio bliss for a long time. Feels very much like "home" by now, and a nice one at that.


----------



## llamaluv

So on the Kenzie alt tube front... What's the reasoning behind pairing 12B4A's with the 5755 tubes in particular -- as opposed to just the regular 12SL7 tube type?


----------



## ampsandsound

The 12Sl7 for all their fantastic tone are prone to microphonics... least thats the prevailing wisdom. That said, 9pin tube are generally quieter than their octal counterparts. 
The 5755 is a super inexpensive NOS tube. Most 12SL7s are also very very in expensive... I believe most 5755s are JAN/Mil spec. 
A 5755 is ~ $10 each and he adapter is $15 to the door thus opening an additional option. 
I would suggest getting a 12AX7 to 12SL7 adapter too. Then you could use 5751, 12AT7, 12AX7s.. and tube rolling will truly be wide open.
The 12B4A doesn't have the same tone as the 1626 but has a lot of punch and increases the power significantly.


Hope this helps


----------



## llamaluv

Thanks Justin. 

Since last night I've actually had two RCA 12B4A's (which I ordered through ampsandsound a couple days ago) and a Raytheon JAN 5755 running on my Kenzie Encore, and am liking it just fine. Sounds nimble and neutral, and my impression is that it does have more grunt. This is with it connected to the Abyss Phi.

I've actually been continually surprised at how much I've enjoyed the Kenzie Encore with hard-to-drive planars (viz., the HEKv2, LCD-4, and now the Phi).


----------



## vonnie123

ampsandsound said:


> For what its worth, the 12B4A/5755 combo has been compelling for me when wanting a more neutral sound with more power.
> It might not be for everyone. Id agree with that for sure. The Kenzie doesn't have the breadth of rolling options, so having any options seems like a win.
> On ebay, there are pairs of 12B4A for $18 shipped. The adapters are $25 for a pair shipped. So for $45 or so, you can nearly double the output and open yourself to roiling options.
> Ive seen 5-7 different 12B4A which is way cool. The draw of the 5755 is that they are 9pin. Though I truely love the 12SL7... they are more prone to microphonics than other tubes.
> ...



Justin, what is your preferred 12B4A (or 1626) for that matter.  Thank you for building such an awesome Kenzie Encore Amp.


----------



## ampsandsound

Honestly I don't sweat the power tubes though maybe I should. I have about 200 1626 tubes to pull from.
I do however pay attention to the input... If you can get the 2C52... its a WONDERFUL choice.
The Silyvanas are as well.
I know 12SL7s are a but noisey or microphonic prone but that have the classic sound I love so much.


----------



## JoeDoe

Good to be in the club!


----------



## buke9

JoeDoe said:


> Good to be in the club!


 You will now know why I wouldn’t what to let my Kenzie go.


----------



## JoeDoe

buke9 said:


> You will now know why I wouldn’t what to let my Kenzie go.



Loving this guy with my PS1000s. Best I’ve heard from them and I’ve heard A LOT of amps.


----------



## buke9

JoeDoe said:


> Loving this guy with my PS1000s. Best I’ve heard from them and I’ve heard A LOT of amps.


 Justin has a good amp for sure in the Kenzie I Love mine.


----------



## vonnie123 (Apr 14, 2019)

JoeDoe said:


> Good to be in the club!



You’ll like the Kenzie.  I have a Kenzie Encore with the outboard black box input transformers (XLR to RCA).  Pick up a Raytheon 2c52 input tube.  It’s an easy tube upgrade tweak.  If you need more power output the 12B4a output tubes (need adapters) will help....


----------



## JoeDoe

vonnie123 said:


> You’ll like the Kenzie.  I have a Kenzie Encore with the outboard black box input transformers (XLR to RCA).  Pick up a Raytheon 2c52 input tube.  It’s an easy tube upgrade tweak.  If you need more power output the 12B4a output tubes (need adapters) will help....



Justin recommended the 2C52 also - will keep it on my 'to-purchase' list. I've always wondered what it's like to get to the end of the head-fi journey and now I know...


----------



## zach915m

Nice ZMF Pendant (made by ampsandsound) review by Earphiles - http://earphiles.org/2019/04/zmf-pendant-review/


----------



## Wildcatsare1

zach915m said:


> Nice ZMF Pendant (made by ampsandsound) review by Earphiles - http://earphiles.org/2019/04/zmf-pendant-review/



Great review!


----------



## ampsandsound

Man the photography is stunning.


----------



## Ear 2 Ear

AmpsandSound Mogwai SE

Recently, I was able to obtain directly from AmpsandSound, a review sample of their Mogwai SE, a pretty phenomenal (there’s the abreviated version of the review) tube-powered headphone amplifier.  I am accustomed to receivers and integrated amplifiers that almost always include a headphone jack as a convenience feature.  The Mogwai SE turns that thinking around the other way.  It’s a headphone amp whose convenience feature is a set of speaker cable binding posts that allow you to drive a pair of efficient loudspeakers to very satisfying levels in typical, domestic listening spaces, as well as less efficient loudspeakers in near-field listening arrangements.  This is possible because—as headphone amplifiers go—the Mogwai SE is a tremendously powerful amp.

The SE in Mogwai SE stands for Special Edition and the feature that makes the Special Edition special is a pair of input transformers whose function is make the amp quieter than it would be without them.

This review is not based on long-term use and evaluation.  It would be nice to be able to keep any piece of high-end gear in my system for an extended period, but I don’t feel that it’s necessary to audition a piece of equipment for months on end in order to determine whether it’s better or worse than similar products with which the reviewer is familiar.  If you’re a skilled listener—maybe even if you’re not—you should be able to tell, pretty quickly, whether and why you like some new piece of gear.   Also, I’m skeptical about differences among products that are so small that they can be discerned only after months of listening.   If you require months of listening to determine whether A is better than B, or the other way round, then I’m going to be fairly suspicious about the significance of any differences you ultimately perceive between A and B.

It’s a great time to be in the market for headphones and headphone amplifiers.  The headphone universe has been rapidly expanding during the past several years.  There are lots of headphones and amps and personal listening accessories from which to choose: open back headphones, closed back headphones, headphone amplifiers, DAC-amplifiers, portable amps, portable DAC-amps, tube amps, solid state amps, headphone cables, in ear monitors, balanced amps—both fixed base and portable.  It’s a huge segment of the hi-fi market and it’s still expanding!

The bad news about this rapid expansion in personal listening is that creates a lot of room for posers and re-badgers in this ever-growing market segment.  Right now, I suspect that there’s a whole bunch of nearly identical gear being sold at wildly varying price points with the only real difference between some products being cosmetic.  Even before you listen, even before you plug it in, even before you open the box you can be certain that none of that bad news applies to the Mogwai SE, or any other AmpsandSound product.  The Mogwai SE is an original product from an original company.  It’s a product that might have cousins, but it has no twins at its price, or at any other price points.  Rather than designing products that target specific price points, each AmpsandSound product seems to have been designed to fill a unique market niche and listening need.  I’ve heard all of the AmpsandSound headphone amps; choosing one of them wouldn’t be a matter of making some kind of sonic compromise to accommodate my budget, it would simply be a matter of choosing the amp that best fit my needs.

I listened to the Mogwai SE using just one pair of headphones, my open back,  AKG  K-701s.  These massive-looking headphones are actually very light.  When I listen with them, I barely notice that they’re on my head.  They are amazingly comfortable and they are fantastic sounding.  Friends keep channeling new and expensive—sometimes, very expensive—headphones my way.  Many of them sound very good; some sound almost as good as my 701s!  I think the latest crop of 701s are made in China, but mine are Austrian.  I’ve had them for a while.  For me, they’ve been a very satisfying reference.  I’ve heard a few headphones that I’d be as happy to have as my AKGs, but the only headphones for which I would trade them are the high-end Stax electrostatics with their dedicated amplifiers. 

Using my AKG K-701s, I compared the Mogwai SE with two other headphone amplifiers, my Ray Samuels’ Hornet and my Apogee Digital, Mini DAC, which is now a legacy product.  The headphone amp in the Mini DAC is extraordinary.  Its only downside in my view is that you can feed it only a digital signal, which is too bad because it is so good that I wish that I could connect it directly to my phono preamp for use in listening to my turntable.

My Ray Samuels’ headphone amp continues to amaze me.  It’s a portable amp that runs off a single nine-volt battery.  Frequently, I strap it to my i-pod with a rubber band (it’s about two-thirds the size of my i-pod).  Other times, I use it as a miniature, battery-powered pre-amp in my desktop hi-fi system.

Diminishing Returns
At $3,200, the Mogwai SE is a pricey piece of gear, but it’s not unreasonably pricey.  It’s a handmade, made in the USA piece of premium, high-end tube audio gear that is definitely not subject to the “they don’t make ‘em like they used to” kinds of lamentations that we all express about modern products.  If you open up a Mogwai SE you’ll see it’s packed with robust, oversized, high quality parts that are unlikely to fail, but which could be easily identified, diagnosed, and replaced if they did.  Instead of trying to design-in accommodations for what you think, or hope the future might bring to circuit design, that’s an incredibly effective, retro method of future-proofing a product!

Still, you should be aware that however good the Mogwai SE sounds—and it does sound very good, no $3,200 headphone amp is going to give you twice the sonic performance of a $1,600 headphone amp.  The laws of diminishing returns apply to the Mogwai SE just as they do to all audio gear.  Having said that, I think you’ll find that you might easily get more than twice the pride of ownership and enjoyment from the Mogwai SE.  It’s a piece of audio gear that’s likely to delight you even when it’s switched off!  And it’s nice to know that you, or your great-grandchildren will be able to enjoy it almost indefinitely into the future.

Comparisons 
My Ray Samuels Hornet is a great and amazing amp.  Its tiny size and battery-powered portability make it even more amazing.  If I didn’t have anything better with which to compare it I don’t think I would ever notice its limitations, but in direct A-B comparisons with the Mogwai SE it always came in a very close second.  Again, I had to switch back and forth between the two amps to identify the meaningful differences.  I don’t know that I could have listened to the two amps an hour apart and identified those differences, but in careful side-by-side listening they were noticeable.  The Mogwai SE edged out the Hornet with its sheer power and its broader dynamics, something that’s reasonable to expect from an amp that plugs into the wall and that has enough power to drive a lot of loudspeakers!

When I compared the headphone amplifier in my Apogee Digital Mini DAC to the Mogwai SE I was unable to express a preference for one amplifier over the other.  To my ears they sounded equally good, but the Mogwai SE let me do something my Mini DAC wouldn’t.  It let me connect directly to my phono preamp , an EAR 834P, and listen to my turntable directly.  I prefer the sound of my Apogee to that of my Ray Samuels, but the Apogee has no analog inputs, so when I listen to records through headphones I have to use my ever-so-slightly inferior Ray Samuels amp.  It was really nice to be able to listen to records with my headphones, powered by a truly first rate headphone amplifier, that’s what the Mogwai SE is!

Listening Impressions
The Mogwai SE had a rich, full, textured bass that was never bloated or flabby.  Consistently, it delivered tuneful, articulate bass that was the equal of the best bass reproduction that I’ve heard from my headphones.  The only thing lacking was the felt bass that you can never get from headphones and can be had only from full range loudspeakers, or subwoofers.  In the mid range and upper frequencies the Mogwai SE delivered a lush, but articulate sound that made it seem like all the voices, instruments, and notes had been pulled apart from one another.  It was something like the difference between what you might hear if you put ten musicians in a 400 square foot studio, listened for a bit, and then moved them into a 1,500 square foot studio and took another listen.  Everything sounded bigger, more open, more spread out, and more comfortable.  Musicians were no longer elbowing each other for space when they were played through the Mogwai SE!  This might have been the most startling and enjoyable sonic feature of the Mogwai SE.

Loudspeaker Listening
I used the Mogwai SE to power a pair of Overnight Sensation MTM stand-mounted/desktop loudspeakers in my 100 square-foot home office.  The Overnight Sensations are not especially efficient loudspeakers and I was not prepared for the volume of sound that they were able to produce when powered by a headphone amplifier!  I got more volume than I needed for the space, and the quality of the sound I got from the speakers was as good as I’ve heard using any other amplifier I have.  The Mogwai SE is quiet.  Without a signal I turned up the volume and heard nothing from my speaker’s tweeters.  That may be the result of the SE’s input transformers.  I wish that I could have heard the amp paired with much more efficient speakers.  I imagine that the effect would be startling.

Final Thoughts
Every listener comes to this hobby with pockets of varying depth.  Sadly, I’m a relatively poor audiophile, but I have been fortunate enough to find gear, and in some cases make gear for myself that not only sounds great, but sounds great in comparison to much more costly equipment.  I don’t really need a Mogwai SE, which is too bad because if I needed one I would find a way to justify its purchase.  Serious headphone listeners who are not as economically constrained as I am should give the Mogwai SE very serious consideration.  It’s an absolutely first rate headphone amp and, when paired with the right speakers, a first rate power amp.


----------



## Strayngs

Is there anywhere that I can find the specs to the SE-84 special edition (or regular SE-84)? I cant find anything online as far as power specs.


----------



## Ear 2 Ear

Strayngs said:


> Is there anywhere that I can find the specs to the SE-84 special edition (or regular SE-84)? I cant find anything online as far as power specs.



I'm sorry; I don't have the amp's specifications, but if you'll send an email to Justin Weber at AmpsandSound, I know he'll get back to you with the numbers you're looking for.


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## Strayngs

Thx I appreciate it


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## woodcans

Pendant unboxing:


 

 

 

 

 

 

Initial impressions are this is a fast, quiet, detailed amp while still maintaining the right amount of tube character. And, quite powerful. More than plenty of volume with the pot at 7:00-8:00. The case is super nice as well.


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## JoeDoe

woodcans said:


> Pendant unboxing:
> 
> Initial impressions are this is a fast, quiet, detailed amp while still maintaining the right amount of tube character. And, quite powerful. More than plenty of volume with the pot at 7:00-8:00. The case is super nice as well.



Love that base!


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## Astral Abyss

JoeDoe said:


> Love that base!


Same here.  @woodcans Which type of custom wood finish did you go with?  I chose Bocote for mine, but yours looks every bit as good.


----------



## exdmd

woodcans said:


> Initial impressions are this is a fast, quiet, detailed amp while still maintaining the right amount of tube character. And, quite powerful. More than plenty of volume with the pot at 7:00-8:00. The case is super nice as well.



That was a problem for me with my Kenzie. When I used a DAC with volume control I did not notice, but when I upgraded to Yggdrasil with fixed 2.0V RMS output I had limited range on the volume control: could not advance past 8 AM without output starting to become uncomfortably loud with my HD800S. 

I solved the problem by using a Saga but that is one more component in the chain. I would like to recommend that Justin consider either a hi/lo gain switch like Schiit uses or change the volume control so there is more usable range using DACs with fixed volume output. Otherwise I love my Kenzie after over a year I have no urge to upgrade.


----------



## buke9

exdmd said:


> That was a problem for me with my Kenzie. When I used a DAC with volume control I did not notice, but when I upgraded to Yggdrasil with fixed 2.0V RMS output I had limited range on the volume control: could not advance past 8 AM without output starting to become uncomfortably loud with my HD800S.
> 
> I solved the problem by using a Saga but that is one more component in the chain. I would like to recommend that Justin consider either a hi/lo gain switch like Schiit uses or change the volume control so there is more usable range using DACs with fixed volume output. Otherwise I love my Kenzie after over a year I have no urge to upgrade.


Hi/Lo gain would be a big no for me and would probably change the amp quite a bit. I have a Yggdrasil also and have no problem with the volume limits and adding more stuff in the chain is never a good thing just looking at more chances for noise.


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## woodcans

I listened to it at length yesterday, volume mostly between 7:00-8:30. More usable volume control would be nice, but I was easily able to find the listening levels I wanted as the pot is very smooth. I could also lower the level with my Dave, but never felt the need. And the more I listened, the more I liked it. A truly great amp.


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## woodcans

Astral Abyss said:


> Same here.  @woodcans Which type of custom wood finish did you go with?  I chose Bocote for mine, but yours looks every bit as good.



I didn’t go custom, luck of the draw!


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## Astral Abyss

woodcans said:


> I didn’t go custom, luck of the draw!



Well, unless something changed, the standard finish is painted black.


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## woodcans

One week update with the Pendant. I am surprised this amp doesn't get more attention here. My initial impressions have not changed, as a matter of fact, the more time I spend with this beauty, the more I like it. The volume knob, while limited to 9:00 and below due to output power, offers plenty of control, is quiet and perfectly balanced even at low levels. Tonality is just right (rich with just the perfect amount of tube liquidity) when used with both Verite and Auteur. Bass impact, slam and note differentiation is excellent. Treble is extended and realistic. Midrange is wonderful. The step up in all areas when moving from my BHCS (which has nice, big caps & NOS tubes) is instantly noticeable. This is a true high end piece, the kind that makes one not want to stop listening. Quite addictive.


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## Wes S (Aug 23, 2019)

woodcans said:


> One week update with the Pendant. I am surprised this amp doesn't get more attention here. My initial impressions have not changed, as a matter of fact, the more time I spend with this beauty, the more I like it. The volume knob, while limited to 9:00 and below due to output power, offers plenty of control, is quiet and perfectly balanced even at low levels. Tonality is just right (rich with just the perfect amount of tube liquidity) when used with both Verite and Auteur. Bass impact, slam and note differentiation is excellent. Treble is extended and realistic. Midrange is wonderful. The step up in all areas when moving from my BHCS (which has nice, big caps & NOS tubes) is instantly noticeable. This is a true high end piece, the kind that makes one not want to stop listening. Quite addictive.


Awesome!  This is my next amp, and I have already started saving up.  I really think this is my endgame amp, and you just confirmed it even more.  Thanks!  I also do not get why this amp does not get talked about much.  It seems the Glenn OTL gets all the attention with the ZMF dynamics, which I am sure is killer, but I still want the Pendant.  I really like the idea of using 12au7's with the Pendant, as I have all the greats already, for the BHC Speedball.  I plan to reach out to Zach, and talk more about the Pendant, soon.


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## woodcans

Wes S said:


> Awesome!  This is my next amp, and I have already started saving up.  I really think this is my endgame amp, and you just confirmed it even more.  Thanks!  I also do not get why this amp does not get talked about much.  It seems the Glenn OTL gets all the attention with the ZMF dynamics, which I am sure is killer, but I still want the Pendant.  I really like the idea of using 12au7's with the Pendant, as I have all the greats already, for the BHC Speedball.  I plan to reach out to Zach, and talk more about the Pendant, soon.



I think you are going to love this amp. The synergy with the ZMF phones is exceptional. The sound quality of this amp is actually closer to my Allnic 3000 than it is to my BHCS.


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## Wes S

woodcans said:


> I think you are going to love this amp. The synergy with the ZMF phones is exceptional. The sound quality of this amp is actually closer to my Allnic 3000 than it is to my BHCS.


Awesome!  Time to start selling some gear, so I can get that amp sooner.


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## me2621a

Wes S said:


> Awesome!  Time to start selling some gear, so I can get that amp sooner.




Yah you will be really happy with the Pendent or really any of Justin's amps (owner of AmpsandSound), I have heard his entire line (with the exception of the Kenzie Encore and Leeloo Monos) and own the Suolo Monos and the Mogwai SE, they are all end game worthy. Might even add another one of his amps to my collection soon.


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## ampsandsound

Super happy you’re enjoying.  We work really hard to bring about equipment that can be enjoyed for a lifetime. When you learn the stock sound, tube rolling will reopen you’re ears to what’s possible.  

Thanks for the support 

Justin


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## woodcans

Just rolled in a new tube today! The Cifte 12au7 is a fantastic tube with the Pendant. Increased detail and treble information as well as better spatial cues. All with exceptional midrange and deep, controlled bass.


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## joespride

I have been a fan of Justin Weber & Ampsandsound from the beginning. I first heard his name on the Klipsch forum, from there we began our association (friendship). I contacted Justin because I was in a position where only Headphones were possible in my living space.  After a brief discussion I bought his 2nd SE84 (First Version) it was quite petite in structure but it offered a HUGE sound, Very Musical. I have bought 4 more of Justins amps in the interim All of which were fantastic amps in there own right.

Enter my latest dealing with Justin the MOGWAI this was Justins personal amp as you may imagine it has all the bells and whistles, Like the input CineMag Transformers.  2 Years ago I was finally able to get back to speakers, I had turned my back on headphones. I was concentrating fully on the speaker aspect of audio, I built a respectable system surrounding my DIY open Baffles with which I am very HAPPY. I thought headphones were a thing of the past. Justin offered to sell his personal Mogwai and from all the press I thought why not all his other amps were great and It has speaker taps.

Mogwai offers 3 wpc in either speaker taps or Headphones (no dividing network) it should drive my single drivers with ease.  The Mogwai came packed in Justins usual over the top packing fashions took me 20 minutes and a few choice swears to see the actual amp. (I Love that).  Of course I tried the amp first with my main speakers and while it performed admirably I knew rather quickly I would keep my Decware SE84c monos in that position. I no longer have good or even decent headphones, what I do have is a pair of highly regarded (Rightfully so) Final Audio E2000 IEM 

Mogwai is OVERKILL but what the hell, both are here and no harm can come to either. I have spent several hours now with that combination to my wife's chagrin I am now on the hunt for proper headphones. (that speaks volumes to me alone). I was not prepared for the experience I was about to have with Mogwai.  For me music needs to pull out emotion if it cannot I tend to be underwhelmed, I also live for PRAT and realism. I want the performer in my room singing to me & me alone. I want to have involuntary movement, spontaneously get up and do a dance, play my air Drums & Guitar. I absolutely Love it when the little remaining hair on the back of my neck stands up and sends a shiver down my spine. 

The Mogwai has done all that but there's more I was actually shocked last night playing Neal Diamond  "I am I said" I got very emotional  to the point tears actually welled up in my eyes. The song triggered something in me that it failed to do on my speaker setup. Stevie wonders Superstition had me up on my feet acting like a fool to the delight of our boys & my wife. The Mogwai offers as I expected a superb balanced sound extended bass and treble (though never harsh) , and a glorious tube mid range. I never expected to be brought to tears and forced to look at headphones yet again. 

For me there are no downsides when it comes to sound using the Mogwai.  Thank you so much Justin Mogwai is a grand slam my friend.


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## tholt (Sep 2, 2019)

Happy new member of the A&S club! Truth be told, it wasn't planned. Owning the Abyss 1266 Phi, I knew I needed an amp that wouldn't hold this headphone back. I was afraid a traditional tube amp might not do that. I listen to a lot of electronic music, so drive, bass slam and PRaT are essentials. I thought that a tube amp might be slow, overly warm and syrupy, or just plain lacking in power. I've been through _nine_ amps so far, and for various reasons, didn't really like of any of them in the long run. A few were popular with other Abyss owners: Violectric V281, Wells Audio Milo and the Cayin iHA-6. At one point I even auditioned the $4100 Allnic 3000 GT based on another Abyss owners recommendation.

A few weeks ago I saw the SE-84 for sale here. I did some research and read how it was @ampsandsound personal amp, and previously owned by @joespride . It evidently had enough power so long story short, I took a chance. Wow. This thing is fantastic with the Abyss! All my fears were put to rest pretty quickly. Plenty of power, drive and PRaT. Bass is there when needed. And the soundstage -- I've never heard any amp with this much width, depth and presence. Very happy camper here, and happy to own this bad boy. In fact, it seems to be the perfect complement to the Abyss. The Abyss is super fast and neutral. It can, however, tend toward having bright/edgy highs and a tad thin in the mids. The SE-84 addresses both of those beautifully. Great match. And tube rolling is a bonus.

A quick shot of my rig (I'm limited to a bookshelf to shove all my gear into). The SE-84 is bottom right. Had to place it sideways to fit! Thankfully all the inputs and outputs are on the top plate, or this wouldn't have worked at all.


----------



## joespride

"A few weeks ago I saw the SE-84 for sale here. I did some research and read how it was @ampsandsound personal amp, and previously owned by @joespride . It evidently had enough power so long story short, I took a chance. Wow. This thing is fantastic with the Abyss! All my fears were put to rest pretty quickly. Plenty of power, drive and PRaT. Bass is there when needed. And the soundstage -- I've never heard any amp with this much width, depth and presence. Very happy camper here, and happy to own this bad boy. In fact, it seems to be the perfect complement to the Abyss. The Abyss is super fast and neutral. It can, however, tend toward having bright/edgy highs and a tad thin in the mids. The SE-84 addresses both of those beautifully. Great match. And tube rolling is a bonus.

A quick shot of my rig (I'm limited to a bookshelf to shove all my gear into). The SE-84 is bottom right. Had to place it sideways to fit! Thankfully all the inputs and outputs are on the top plate, or this wouldn't have worked at all.

[/QUOTE]   It looks like Matt put a cover over the transformer right behind the tubes. (Unless its just the picture) Did he share any info with you concerning that ?


----------



## tholt

^ That thing is just a RFI/EMI blocker (supposedly) I put there. Truthfully, it's a pretty lame tweak. But I use it as a sort of weight over the transformers of amps I own, and bc I have it and don't know what else to do with it


----------



## joespride

tholt said:


> ^ That thing is just a RFI/EMI blocker (supposedly) I put there. Truthfully, it's a pretty lame tweak. But I use it as a sort of weight over the transformers of amps I own, and bc I have it and don't know what else to do with it



Got it. Thanks for the info.  Enjoy that amp. I wonder if the amp would be improved with Justins input trannies.  I wish I could hear my mogwai with & without. I will have to suffer with hearing with input trannies. My HD800 are supposed to deliver Wed. Hoping that will be a good day though I do not put any stock in Fedex actually delivering.  Fingers officially crossed.


----------



## vonnie123

Any concern from heat build up inside the cabinet.  I have an Encore and the tubes do get pretty warm.

@joespride


----------



## Strayngs

tholt said:


> Happy new member of the A&S club! Truth be told, it wasn't planned. Owning the Abyss 1266 Phi, I knew I needed an amp that wouldn't hold this headphone back. I was afraid a traditional tube amp might not do that. I listen to a lot of electronic music, so drive, bass slam and PRaT are essentials. I thought that a tube amp might be slow, overly warm and syrupy, or just plain lacking in power. I've been through _nine_ amps so far, and for various reasons, didn't really like of any of them in the long run. A few were popular with other Abyss owners: Violectric V281, Wells Audio Milo and the Cayin iHA-6. At one point I even auditioned the $4100 Allnic 3000 GT based on another Abyss owners recommendation.
> 
> A few weeks ago I saw the SE-84 for sale here. I did some research and read how it was @ampsandsound personal amp, and previously owned by @joespride . It evidently had enough power so long story short, I took a chance. Wow. This thing is fantastic with the Abyss! All my fears were put to rest pretty quickly. Plenty of power, drive and PRaT. Bass is there when needed. And the soundstage -- I've never heard any amp with this much width, depth and presence. Very happy camper here, and happy to own this bad boy. In fact, it seems to be the perfect complement to the Abyss. The Abyss is super fast and neutral. It can, however, tend toward having bright/edgy highs and a tad thin in the mids. The SE-84 addresses both of those beautifully. Great match. And tube rolling is a bonus.
> 
> A quick shot of my rig (I'm limited to a bookshelf to shove all my gear into). The SE-84 is bottom right. Had to place it sideways to fit! Thankfully all the inputs and outputs are on the top plate, or this wouldn't have worked at all.



I am sad to see it go, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. It was the best amp I ever heard! I am super happy it went to you my friend!


----------



## tholt

vonnie123 said:


> Any concern from heat build up inside the cabinet. I have an Encore and the tubes do get pretty warm.



There's pretty good clearance and air in there. Plus there are only three tubes: 2x EL84 and 1x 12A_7 type, so not too bad heat-wise.



Strayngs said:


> I am sad to see it go, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. It was the best amp I ever heard! I am super happy it went to you my friend!


 Thanks again. Could not have asked for a better transaction. Strayngs is the man.


----------



## Bonddam

I'm waiting for the Pendant to arrive Zach is throwing in the higher end tubes but I'm trying to decide If I should start with the standard tubes then move up? This will be my first real experience with tubes, I don't count the Pro Ican as a real tube amp, Kinda see the size of them makes me think that.


----------



## tholt

Definitely try both sets for at least a day or more to let them burn in a bit and for you to get a bead on their signatures. Not sure it matters which order -- theoretically you should hear a difference either way. Congrats on the new amp!


----------



## Bonddam

tholt said:


> Definitely try both sets for at least a day or more to let them burn in a bit and for you to get a bead on their signatures. Not sure it matters which order -- theoretically you should hear a difference either way. Congrats on the new amp!


Thanks it be almost four weeks till I get it. Got to figure out how to keep my kids away from it.


----------



## tholt

Tell them the tubes are hot lava


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## vonnie123 (Sep 29, 2019)

joespride said:


> Which tubes are you burning in the Kenzie ??  I found the best were the Hytron vt37 / 1626, and the Raytheon 2c52  (I have a huge supply of both)  anyone interested  in an audition of said tubes I would happily support Justin by circulating a set for audition. If it turned out someone wanted a set I am sure that could be worked out as well



Hi Joe, what do you consider an huge supply?  I have 7 full sets.  Figure they're good for 10K hours each.


----------



## Bonddam

What do you guys do with all these sets of tubes? I'd thought you would be looking for the perfect set then sell the ones you didn't care for.


----------



## vonnie123

exdmd said:


> That was a problem for me with my Kenzie. When I used a DAC with volume control I did not notice, but when I upgraded to Yggdrasil with fixed 2.0V RMS output I had limited range on the volume control: could not advance past 8 AM without output starting to become uncomfortably loud with my HD800S.
> 
> I solved the problem by using a Saga but that is one more component in the chain. I would like to recommend that Justin consider either a hi/lo gain switch like Schiit uses or change the volume control so there is more usable range using DACs with fixed volume output. Otherwise I love my Kenzie after over a year I have no urge to upgrade.



I would have the same issue using the fixed volume output from my DAC.  I run DAC to preamp, and back out to the Encore.  If you are streaming in with a player, you can also software control the player volume down to give the headphone amp volume control more play.  The Saga is a good solution to manage volume.


----------



## vonnie123

Bonddam said:


> What do you guys do with all these sets of tubes? I'd thought you would be looking for the perfect set then sell the ones you didn't care for.



I have two pelican style cases full of tubes.  I roll them for fun.  I have three tube components, so its always good to have spares.  Good fortune is that my equipment doesn't need pricey tubes.  I look at them like a valued asset......I'm not going to lose money on them if I ever choose to sell them.


----------



## Bonddam

I received my Pendant it's amazing it came in sea horse case. It runs hot off my DAC so I don't get much volume control on the HI Z. Justin is sending me a different gain stage tube(not familiar with names). I'm also trying to get rid of a low level hum that is audible when there is no music playing. The hum is only coming out of the HI Z output. This is my favorite amp beating my GS-X mini and V281. Justin was surprised that I that my EDM was more enjoyable on the tubes vs ss. The amp just sounds more real the ss sound artificial.


----------



## ampsandsound

Most dynamic headphones are very very sensitive relative to other designs. 
When paired with powerful tube amps with will provide amazing slam, while still providing the body and tonal richness which is the hallmark of these amps. 
The Pendant is compatible with many different 12AX*7 variety tubes. Changing to a 12AU7 will reduce the noise floor and increase the practical movement of the volume pot. 
Whats great, is that changing this one tube will allow for better system matching/reduce noise floor as needed with varying sensitivity headphones.


----------



## Bonddam

I did some research and it was stated there could be noise with brand new tubes. I think the hum turns off once the source starts sending audio. Looking forward to that tube Justin and thank you for paying for it. My best experience in customer service comes from Ampsandsound for actually talking to the owner on a Saturday night and ZMF for always making sure everything is fine. I wonder when they take a day off.


----------



## Bonddam

I'm powering my HE6se with good results still think they require lots more power for same bass performance as I get with the VO and Empyrean. I normally power the HE6se with emotive XPA 7 gen 2 with 200 watts rms, sourced from XMC 1 as the DAC. Though I'm very impressed how the Pendant handles this headphone. I'm planning on selling some of my ss.


----------



## vonnie123

The GSX-mini you have will adequately power the HE6se.  I have the same setup.  I was actually surprised my A&S Kenzie Encore powered my HE6se as well as it did single ended.


----------



## Bonddam

The Pendant to my ears is better then the mini. I listen to mainly electronic music. Don't get wrong I won't be selling my mini as it's my favorite solid state.


----------



## Bonddam

Recently installed some NOS tubes. I can barely read the brand so I'm not. They sound excellent.


----------



## exdmd (Nov 9, 2019)

ampsandsound said:


> Most dynamic headphones are very very sensitive relative to other designs.
> When paired with powerful tube amps with will provide amazing slam, while still providing the body and tonal richness which is the hallmark of these amps.
> The Pendant is compatible with many different 12AX*7 variety tubes. Changing to a 12AU7 will reduce the noise floor and increase the practical movement of the volume pot.
> Whats great, is that changing this one tube will allow for better system matching/reduce noise floor as needed with varying sensitivity headphones.


Justin will a 12AU7 work as well with a Kenzie? I already have an adaptor and I could use more range on the volume pot I max out at 9 AM. If so do you have a recommended 12AU7 you like for the Kenzie, I will give it a try. I have lately been using an RCA grey glass 12SL7GT but am always looking forward to trying new tubes. I was lucky to find a stash of Tung Sol 1626s that should last me for a few years.


----------



## vonnie123

exdmd said:


> Justin will a 12AU7 work as well with a Kenzie? I already have an adaptor and I could use more range on the volume pot I max out at 9 AM. If so do you have a recommended 12AU7 you like for the Kenzie, I will give it a try. I have lately been using an RCA grey glass 12SL7GT but am always looking forward to trying new tubes. I was lucky to find a stash of Tung Sol 1626s that should last me for a few years.


Any of the 12A_7 family should work fine.  12AU7, 12AT7, 12AX7.  Varying degrees of amplification.  The 12AT7 is my preferred of that group.  Also check out 2C52.


----------



## vonnie123

exdmd said:


> Justin will a 12AU7 work as well with a Kenzie? I already have an adaptor and I could use more range on the volume pot I max out at 9 AM. If so do you have a recommended 12AU7 you like for the Kenzie, I will give it a try. I have lately been using an RCA grey glass 12SL7GT but am always looking forward to trying new tubes. I was lucky to find a stash of Tung Sol 1626s that should last me for a few years.



Also, take a look at an octal to noval adapter for the 12B4A output tube.  This will double your output power.  Super inexpensive tube too.  Justin USED to sell the 12B4A adapter setup and tubes on his website.


----------



## Bonddam

What is the 12A_7 responsible for?


----------



## vonnie123 (Nov 9, 2019)

Bonddam said:


> What is the 12A_7 responsible for?



12A_7 is a single input tube on the Kenzie, Kenzie Encore that can be used in place of 12SL7/2C52 with an octal to noval adapter.

This is a photo of my Kenzie Encore with a n adapter and 12A_7 family type tube.....output tubes pictured are 1626.

The black device is a Bryston BDP-1 media player.


----------



## Bonddam

So is input tubes responsible for gain? I'm using 12AU7 on my Pendant.


----------



## ampsandsound

exdmd said:


> Justin will a 12AU7 work as well with a Kenzie? I already have an adaptor and I could use more range on the volume pot I max out at 9 AM. If so do you have a recommended 12AU7 you like for the Kenzie, I will give it a try. I have lately been using an RCA grey glass 12SL7GT but am always looking forward to trying new tubes. I was lucky to find a stash of Tung Sol 1626s that should last me for a few years.


It will will the correct adapter. I have a few great adapters. I’ll look tonight and post them.


----------



## ampsandsound

Bonddam said:


> So is input tubes responsible for gain? I'm using 12AU7 on my Pendant.


Yes it is... input and gain.


----------



## ampsandsound

vonnie123 said:


> 12A_7 is a single input tube on the Kenzie, Kenzie Encore that can be used in place of 12SL7/2C52 with an octal to noval adapter.
> 
> This is a photo of my Kenzie Encore with a n adapter and 12A_7 family type tube.....output tubes pictured are 1626.
> 
> The black device is a Bryston BDP-1 media player.


Love your feet. The look super cool.


----------



## ampsandsound

Hey guys as general heads up. I’m dyslexic as the day is long.  You’re likely to get longer more expansive responses with a call.  My new number is 949-636-9076. It’s listed on the site too.  

Separately, the Pendant is a very quite tune amp when you look at measured performance. That said closed back orthodynamic  headphones couple high efficiency and noise isolation. System matching and proper setup become even more important. Use of Ethernet over WiFi is a solid no go and consideration re distance to a WiFi broadcasting device is important.


----------



## vonnie123 (Nov 10, 2019)

ampsandsound said:


> Love your feet. The look super cool.


Alto Extremo Lyd 1
http://alto-extremo.com/

http://www.alto-extremo.com/Products/Reference/reference.html


----------



## vonnie123 (Nov 9, 2019)

Bonddam said:


> So is input tubes responsible for gain? I'm using 12AU7 on my Pendant.



https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/191/6/6201.pdf

Here’s a website that has some good tube data.  The bottom of the page has the 12A_7 data listed by variant.  Compare the amplification factor and that helps compare gain between tube series.  I have a bunch of these 6201 tubes, which are basically 12AT7.  They were made for some very old HP computer equipment.   There are multiple tube substitutions and sometimes you can save money purchasing by using an extremely similar low demand vacuum tube.


----------



## exdmd (Nov 10, 2019)

vonnie123 said:


> Also, take a look at an octal to noval adapter for the 12B4A output tube.  This will double your output power.  Super inexpensive tube too.  Justin USED to sell the 12B4A adapter setup and tubes on his website.


Thanks I have used 12B4A and prefer the Tung Sol 1626. I don't need more power for the HD800S. Besides, once Schiit gets the Jotunheim R in production it will be hard for me to resist buying the Raal SR1a ear speakers. To afford those I would be selling my Kenzie, HD800S and might have to down grade my Yggdrasil to a Bifrost 2.


----------



## vonnie123

I like both output tubes, and switch them up from time to time.   My problem is I have trouble selling my headphone stuff once I buy it.  I just buy more of it.   I thought about selling my Audeze LCD-X the other day, and spend all night listening to them......and decided to keep them.


----------



## me2621a

Hey guys, 
Just wanted to let everyone know that I will be posting my Mogwai SE (8/32/300 ohm taps) for sale in the next few days. If you are interested please reach out to me through a PM as I think it will go fast once it is posted. I will be using the money to purchase something else from Ampsandsound


----------



## me2621a

So over the past week, I have been listening to a special amp on loan from Ampsandsound, their Stereo 15. Now I know what some of you may say: "wait that is a speaker amp...", and you are right, but it is a very quiet push pull speaker amp, capable of 15 watts into 8ohms, making it a good match power wise for the lovely Hifiman Susvara and other low efficiency headphones. 

How does it sound...well to be honest really darn good. Justin was able to add a quarter inch headphone jack next to the speaker taps connected to the 8ohm taps. Dynamics, tone, and bass are excellent. Highs are nicely extended and the Ampandsound house sound is in full swing. For those with lower efficiency headphones (likely sub 95db), and have a pre-amp, or a DAC with volume control, the Stereo 15 is worth considering, if I did not have something else coming form Ampsandsound the Stereo 15 would be staying in my home instead of going back to Southern California.


----------



## 55Powers

me2621a said:


> Hey guys,
> Just wanted to let everyone know that I will be posting my Mogwai SE (8/32/300 ohm taps) for sale in the next few days. If you are interested please reach out to me through a PM as I think it will go fast once it is posted. I will be using the money to purchase something else from Ampsandsound



Hey man,

Thought you had gone mono block mode a long time ago, and now also Stereo 15 loaner?
Whaaat is going on? You getting A&S for speaker amplification?


----------



## me2621a (Dec 13, 2019)

55Powers said:


> Hey man,
> 
> Thought you had gone mono block mode a long time ago, and now also Stereo 15 loaner?
> Whaaat is going on? You getting A&S for speaker amplification?




Haha,
I am just an A&S fan. But to answer your question, I currently have the Suolo Monos which are awesome, and they are not going anywhere.

However they are not the most powerful amplifier (more then enough for the Focal Utopia, Stellia, ZMF Verite, and HE1000SE), which caused me to look at other options when I acquired a Hifiman Susvara.

I was powering my Susvara with my Mogwai SE which sounded great but I was not sure if it would benefit form more power, as when you read about the Susvara people are using everything from 5 watt amps all the way up to 100 watt speaker amps.

After talking to Justin, he offered to send me a Stereo 15 with a quarter inch jack next to the speaker outputs to asses performance with the Susvara.

The combo was awesome, however I did not find a significant difference between the Stereo 15 and the Mogwai SE. The Stereo 15 had slightly more sound stage and was a little more dynamic, but the Mogwai SE was a little more transparent and pulled a bit more detail (all pretty much expected given push pull vs SE). Because I did  and I found the SE to have a bit more transparency (single ended is just special). Couple that with the fact that I do not have a set of speakers to run off of the Stereo 15, the 15 just didn’t quite make sense.

So I sent the loaner back to Justin, sold the Mogwai SE, and Justin is now building a special version of the Mogwai SE with no volume control (have that with the DAVE), and bigger output transformers for me, which I will be sharing once it arrives around the Holidays.

I have now heard most of the A&S line now though which has been a fun adventure.


----------



## 55Powers

me2621a said:


> Haha,
> I am just an A&S fan. But to answer your question, I currently have the Suolo Monos which are awesome, and they are not going anywhere.
> 
> However they are not the most powerful amplifier (more then enough for the Focal Utopia, Stellia, ZMF Verite, and HE1000SE), which caused me to look at other options when I acquired a Hifiman Susvara.
> ...



Holy schmokes,

So you're kinda getting a Mogwai "*V*SE" one might say.
Still 88s, or will you be able to do 120s / 150s with the bigger transformers?
What kind of output will you be looking at here? 

Also... DAVE! Been DACing up i see! 
Verite and Susvara too, you sure are on top of the all aspects of the game. 

Been out of it for a while, working mostly the speaker game these days. But lately I've done som sessions on the good ol' Mogwai.


----------



## me2621a

Haha,
I have been calling it the Mogwai ESE (Extra Special Edition), though I like VSE. I will still be running 88s, the transformer change is purely output transformers to give more bandwidth. I do have a pair of NOS GEC TT21s on their way to me so I am pretty pumped to see how they sound, as I have never run GEC tubes.  As far as the headphones go, yah the Susvara is special, I did end up selling the Verite, great headphone but was not using them enough to justify keeping them. 

Not to go off topic, what are you doing speaker wise, and have you run the SE into your speakers?


----------



## 55Powers

me2621a said:


> Haha,
> I have been calling it the Mogwai ESE (Extra Special Edition), though I like VSE. I will still be running 88s, the transformer change is purely output transformers to give more bandwidth. I do have a pair of NOS GEC TT21s on their way to me so I am pretty pumped to see how they sound, as I have never run GEC tubes.  As far as the headphones go, yah the Susvara is special, I did end up selling the Verite, great headphone but was not using them enough to justify keeping them.
> 
> Not to go off topic, what are you doing speaker wise, and have you run the SE into your speakers?



ESE looks better tbh, symmetrical.

Whoa whoa, some serious tubes comming in here, exciting. Never dared move past the TS 6550s myself. :S
I am acctually running a pair of Kef R300s nearfield on the Mogwai SE nowadays. Gets em driven "well enough" for my small office and listening postition to like productive listening levels. Very enjoyable to be honest.

Moved most of the other stuff (the good ol' Vega, TT and amp) downstairs with another Kef pair, Reference 5, the floorstanders.

Been a while since i heard the Susvara, but i remember liking it a lot...except the price tag. 
I thought the SE was pretty decent at driving its older brother, the HE-6 when i had it over as a loaner, will be interesting to see what results you get from ESE.
Make sure to post back when it's up and running!


----------



## me2621a

So, A&S just completed the build of my new amp, and it is now off to bench testing, and should come to me by end of next week.

I am calling it the Mogwai ESE but @ampsandsound  may end up calling it something different. Built on the Agartha Chassis, the Mogwai ESE features a single input, no input transformers (my request, to this day I go back and forth on if I enjoy them of not, and have several outboard input transformers to no need for internal ones), no volume control as my Dave or any future pre-amp will play that role, a massive 8H choke (instead of 5H choke in the base SE), and Justin's new 20 watt output transformers (instead of 10 watts on the base SE) featuring output impedance taps for 8ohms, 16ohms, 32ohms, 100ohms, and 300ohms. Finally on his recommendation, we replaced the standard coupling caps with lovely factory broken in Jupiter caps.

The genesis for the build was my request for a quieter Mogwai SE that shed anything that was not necessary (for me that was the volume control and input switch), and to extract the flattest output response possible, hence the wish for bigger output iron. Once Justin and I discussed his newly developed 20 watt output transformers and the ability to add a bigger choke, the parts were ordered and my original Mogwai SE was sold to make room for the new one.

Obviously I will update everyone on how it sounds when it arrives, but a few pictures from the build will have to do for now. Soon it will be sporting some nice NOS tubes. Thank you Justin! Really pumped about this one, I think my Susvara will be quite happy haha.


----------



## exdmd

Wow, just wow Five impedance taps: were those transformers custom wound for just this amp? Impressive build quality looking forward to your review.


----------



## omniweltall

me2621a said:


> So, A&S just completed the build of my new amp, and it is now off to bench testing, and should come to me by end of next week.
> 
> I am calling it the Mogwai ESE but @ampsandsound  may end up calling it something different. Built on the Agartha Chassis, the Mogwai ESE features a single input, no input transformers (my request, to this day I go back and forth on if I enjoy them of not, and have several outboard input transformers to no need for internal ones), no volume control as my Dave or any future pre-amp will play that role, a massive 8H choke (instead of 5H choke in the base SE), and Justin's new 20 watt output transformers (instead of 10 watts on the base SE) featuring output impedance taps for 8ohms, 16ohms, 32ohms, 100ohms, and 300ohms. Finally on his recommendation, we replaced the standard coupling caps with lovely factory broken in Jupiter caps.
> 
> ...


Whats fhe power output on this guy?


----------



## me2621a

omniweltall said:


> Whats fhe power output on this guy?



In theory it should be the same power output as a regular Mogwai SE as the power supply has not been altered (~3 watts with a 5u4g and ~ 6 watts with a 5AR4), but Justin would have to confirm if I am right about that.


----------



## omniweltall

me2621a said:


> In theory it should be the same power output as a regular Mogwai SE as the power supply has not been altered (~3 watts with a 5u4g and ~ 6 watts with a 5AR4), but Justin would have to confirm if I am right about that.


That is powerful. Hopefully it is enougjh for superbly inefficient planar.


----------



## ampsandsound

Hey guys sorry for the delay. Sam is right re power. I was burning it in last night with KT66s and 5u4 and 5ar4.  I had more than/ way more power than needed for my HE6.  I had great results with HE6, LCD2 closed, Eikon, HD650, Ether C.
This amp was built as a custom order but will be followed up as a bigger Mogwai Se called the Bigger Ben. 
The intended purpose was to give access to Huge iron, multiple impedance and super sized power supply.  
In my listening, the scale, micro derail retrieval And total slam were my standouts. This amp is not more powerful than a Mogwai Se but feels for sure. I attribute it to the Freq response with in much lower in absolute and subjective terms. 
Of note is that the size had to increase. This is a desktop amp at 15.5” x 11.5” (it’s a better Agartha). 
The draw isn’t it’s power per se for me.  It’s tighter impedance matching and even nicer transformer.  These things are huge. 2x bigger than the Mogwai.


----------



## Bonddam

I need a tube amp for my HE6 and 1266 phi tc.  Currently running gsx mini and pendant but more power is needed for above headphones. The Abyss does really good on the two amps but I feel because they are not efficient enough.


----------



## vonnie123

Bonddam said:


> I need a tube amp for my HE6 and 1266 phi tc.  Currently running gsx mini and pendant but more power is needed for above headphones. The Abyss does really good on the two amps but I feel because they are not efficient enough.



I have HE6se and my GSX-mini works fine, albeit, High gain, and higher volume is required.

AMPs and Sound should have something to fit your needs.


----------



## omniweltall

ampsandsound said:


> Hey guys sorry for the delay. Sam is right re power. I was burning it in last night with KT66s and 5u4 and 5ar4.  I had more than/ way more power than needed for my HE6.  I had great results with HE6, LCD2 closed, Eikon, HD650, Ether C.
> This amp was built as a custom order but will be followed up as a bigger Mogwai Se called the Bigger Ben.
> The intended purpose was to give access to Huge iron, multiple impedance and super sized power supply.
> In my listening, the scale, micro derail retrieval And total slam were my standouts. This amp is not more powerful than a Mogwai Se but feels for sure. I attribute it to the Freq response with in much lower in absolute and subjective terms.
> ...


It's beautiful, Justin. Kinda like a monster Mogwai.


----------



## Bonddam

vonnie123 said:


> I have HE6se and my GSX-mini works fine, albeit, High gain, and higher volume is required.
> 
> AMPs and Sound should have something to fit your needs.



When I bought the he6se I thought they be bass canons but it's not the case. Made me believe they needed more power. They do sound Amazing on the mini just hoping for more bass.


----------



## vonnie123

Bonddam said:


> When I bought the he6se I thought they be bass canons but it's not the case. Made me believe they needed more power. They do sound Amazing on the mini just hoping for more bass.


Maybe a pad change would be worth a try


----------



## Bonddam

As I've listen to the HE6SE on the gsx mini(is good enough) and Pendant is reasonable.


----------



## me2621a (Dec 13, 2019)

Bonddam said:


> When I bought the he6se I thought they be bass canons but it's not the case. Made me believe they needed more power. They do sound Amazing on the mini just hoping for more bass.



I will be honest I am not sure that they are, and I am not sure adding significantly more power will change that. I have heard the GSX Mini drives the Susvara really well, and if they drive the Susvara then they should drive the HE6 SE in a similar manner. I have the Susvara (which is less efficient then the HE6 or HE6SE), I was using the Susvara on the Mogwai SE and thought it needed more power, so I asked Justin to send me a Stereo 15 (15 watts push pull amp), which is about 3 times the power of the SE. (The SE with a 5AR4 is in the 5 watt to 6 watt range, the Stereo 15 is about 15 watts). The bass of the Susvara did not dramatically improve and in A/B testing I found the Stereo 15 to not offer the benefits that I was hoping (it performed more as an equal to the SE, offering a little bit more dynamic punch, but not enough to justify owning a third amp haha), so after my evaluation I sent it back to Justin,  and he offered to build me my special version of the Mogwai SE, which for me is a better match as I have the Susvara as well as several other much more efficient headphones.

If you want pure power, and have a pre-amp (the GSX mini can act as a preamp I believe), or a DAC with good volume control and the goal is to drive the HE6 or HE6SE, you may want to look at the Stereo 15 (and ask Justin to add the headphone jack) as it will provide you more then enough power and it is cheaper than the Mogwai SE. You will loose some of the transparency (which is expected when you go from a single ended design to a push pull design, but you will gain an amp that has the ability to drive a wider range of speakers in addition to your HE6), and you will not have as many options for tube rolling (which may be either a good or bad thing depending on what type of person you are).

Just my thoughts, but since I have literally just gone through this I thought I would chime in, if you go back a page, I have a post about the Stereo 15 and the Susvara. 

All of this with a disclaimer that I have personally not heard the Susvara on a GSX Mini and I have not tried and HE6 in my setup.


----------



## Bonddam (Dec 13, 2019)

me2621a said:


> I will be honest I am not sure that they are, and I am not sure adding significantly more power will change that. I have heard the GSX Mini drives the Susvara really well, and if they drive the Susvara then they should drive the HE6 SE in a similar manner. I have the Susvara (which is less efficient then the HE6 or HE6SE), I was using the Susvara on the Mogwai SE and thought it needed more power, so I asked Justin to send me a Stereo 15 (15 watts push pull amp), which is about 3 times the power of the SE. (The SE with a 5AR4 is in the 5 watt to 6 watt range, the Stereo 15 is about 15 watts). The bass of the Susvara did not dramatically improve and in A/B testing I found the Stereo 15 to not offer the benefits that I was hoping (it performed more as an equal to the SE, offering a little bit more dynamic punch, but not enough to justify owning a third amp haha), so after my evaluation I sent it back to Justin,  and he offered to build me my special version of the Mogwai SE, which for me is a better match as I have the Susvara as well as several other much more efficient headphones.
> 
> If you want pure power, and have a pre-amp (the GSX mini can act as a preamp I believe), or a DAC with good volume control and the goal is to drive the HE6 or HE6SE, you may want to look at the Stereo 15 (and ask Justin to add the headphone jack) as it will provide you more then enough power and it is cheaper than the Mogwai SE. You will loose some of the transparency (which is expected when you go from a single ended design to a push pull design, but you will gain an amp that has the ability to drive a wider range of speakers in addition to your HE6), and you will not have as many options for tube rolling (which may be either a good or bad thing depending on what type of person you are).
> 
> ...


Thanks, but have decided on buying Susvara and Big Ben. Currently using the Pendant and 1266 which sounds really good. For my HE6se giving them 4 watts off mini and that is plenty


----------



## 55Powers

@me2621a your project looks off the hook. ESE indeed. Can't wait for impressions!


----------



## me2621a

So my new Mogwai ESE (Soon to be released as Bigger Ben) has been dropped off in the mail and is now on its way to me. Hopefully I will have some impressions next week once it gets in. In the mean time a few more photos, as you can see it is quite a bit bigger then the standard Mogwai SE (look at those transformers).


----------



## exdmd (Dec 18, 2019)

That is a lot of iron for one amp. I look forward to your listening impressions.


----------



## ampsandsound

In some ways its beating a dead horse... (I believe in the circuit, understand what it can do). 
In general terms, I like simple circuits, very good iron and exceptional execution (wiring)
The Bigger Ben's improvements are from supersizing the PS filtering and improved Iron with more impedance options. 

If I were setting it up for me... Id use like Sam, with out a vol pot and have a pre. I come from the camp, that pre's are helpful good things sonicaly.


----------



## me2621a

So now that I have had some time with my new Ampsandsound Bigger Ben wanted to give you all my initial impressions:

1. This amp is not comparable to a Mogwai SE, or to be honest to any amp that I have listened to from Ampsandsound. This is in a very different league with the standout features being detail, there is significantly more detail coming through the headphones then the Mogwai SE ever presented (and to be clear I never though the SE was lacking in detail). The amp also sounds much more spacious projecting a bigger sound stage in all direction. Finally tone is just spot on. 

2. Bass in this amp is deeper, and that goes for extension in both directions. As Justin said, this thing just has so much bandwidth. It is easily the best amp I have every listened to. 

3. Impedance taps are awesome, for my Susvara I use the 8, 16, and 32 depending on the song. The inclusion of the 16 is a game changer as there were times with the SE that the 8 was just a little to thin, but het 32 was just a little to bloated. 

Finally while the amp is technically not more powerful then a Mogwai SE, I can tell you it acts like it is and it sounds like it is, this thing grips the drivers of my Susvara and takes it for a wild and really enjoyable ride. Current tube complement is a special one, 2 GEC TT21s, a Mullard ECC35, and a metal base holland made Mullard GZ34. Never heard better.


----------



## 55Powers

me2621a said:


> So now that I have had some time with my new Ampsandsound Bigger Ben wanted to give you all my initial impressions:
> 
> 1. This amp is not comparable to a Mogwai SE, or to be honest to any amp that I have listened to from Ampsandsound. This is in a very different league with the standout features being detail, there is significantly more detail coming through the headphones then the Mogwai SE ever presented (and to be clear I never though the SE was lacking in detail). The amp also sounds much more spacious projecting a bigger sound stage in all direction. Finally tone is just spot on.
> 
> ...



Solid impressions, congrats. 
Really liking the taps here.

Your roll here is insane, what is in the 6SL7 slot?

Also... this edge looks really rough?


----------



## me2621a

55Powers said:


> Solid impressions, congrats.
> Really liking the taps here.
> 
> Your roll here is insane, what is in the 6SL7 slot?
> ...



In the 6SL7 slot is a mullard ECC35. I have been going back and forth with the ECC35 and a a2900 (GEC 12AT7 with a 9-8 adapter).  Both are really nice, the a2900 is super fun but I want it to break in a little more before I decide. 

yah in the picture that edge is rougher and upon close inspection it’s rougher then my other A&S amps, but you have to be looking for it in real life where in the picture it pops out more of that makes sense.


----------



## Bonddam

me2621a said:


> So now that I have had some time with my new Ampsandsound Bigger Ben wanted to give you all my initial impressions:
> 
> 1. This amp is not comparable to a Mogwai SE, or to be honest to any amp that I have listened to from Ampsandsound. This is in a very different league with the standout features being detail, there is significantly more detail coming through the headphones then the Mogwai SE ever presented (and to be clear I never though the SE was lacking in detail). The amp also sounds much more spacious projecting a bigger sound stage in all direction. Finally tone is just spot on.
> 
> ...


What tubes came with it?


----------



## me2621a

That is a question for @ampsandsound , I had requested Justin send me a new production KT66 and new Production TS 6SL7 (which he did as a favor), I will be honest, not a great combo, I think he normally ships JJ KT88s and a JJ 6SL7, rectifier is a SED Black Plate which is a nice tube.


----------



## vonnie123

me2621a said:


> In the 6SL7 slot is a mullard ECC35. I have been going back and forth with the ECC35 and a a2900 (GEC 12AT7 with a 9-8 adapter).  Both are really nice, the a2900 is super fun but I want it to break in a little more before I decide.
> 
> yah in the picture that edge is rougher and upon close inspection it’s rougher then my other A&S amps, but you have to be looking for it in real life where in the picture it pops out more of that makes sense.



Interesting.  Does the amp allow use of a 12 volt tube in a 6 volt spot (switchable?).  I use the same noval to octal adapters on my Encore, but at the same voltage spec.  12SL7 slot, 12AT7.


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## me2621a

vonnie123 said:


> Interesting.  Does the amp allow use of a 12 volt tube in a 6 volt spot (switchable?).  I use the same noval to octal adapters on my Encore, but at the same voltage spec.  12SL7 slot, 12AT7.



So fun fact, the 12A_7 family for the most part works at both 6 volts and 12 volts, you can see is this data sheet both 6.3 volts and 12.6 volts are supported: https://www.jj-electronic.com/images/stories/product/preamplifying_tubes/pdf/ecc81.pdf

Not all 12 volt tubes support this, for example the 12SL7 will not work in a 6SL7 slot based on my tests (in my tube tester), and I suspect the data sheet supports that as well. In the Mogwai SE/Bigger Ben I have found the 5751, 12AT7 and 12AX7 sound quite good and as their data sheet suggest support 12 and 6 volts.


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## vonnie123

me2621a said:


> So fun fact, the 12A_7 family for the most part works at both 6 volts and 12 volts, you can see is this data sheet both 6.3 volts and 12.6 volts are supported: https://www.jj-electronic.com/images/stories/product/preamplifying_tubes/pdf/ecc81.pdf
> 
> Not all 12 volt tubes support this, for example the 12SL7 will not work in a 6SL7 slot based on my tests (in my tube tester), and I suspect the data sheet supports that as well. In the Mogwai SE/Bigger Ben I have found the 5751, 12AT7 and 12AX7 sound quite good and as their data sheet suggest support 12 and 6 volts.



I didn't realize that.  Thanks for the explanation.  I have several 12A_7 variants, and never checked the data sheets for that particular substitution.


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## erics75 (Feb 12, 2020)

ZMF Pendant amp owners, is your 6CA4 rectifier socket wiggly? The power and input sockets are rock solid, but my rectifier socket has a slight wiggle to it. Nothing huge, but it does let the mounted tube wiggle a bit, light a newly loose tooth. Wondering if it's a problem that needs a trip in for fixing, or if that's normal for the rectifier socket. I did try a few different tubes, same behavior with all tubes.


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## connieflyer

Hi me2621a, have been following this thread and thought you might be able to help me.  I have a Feliks Audio Euforia, and have rolled Genelax KT88 tubes with great results. Am now using the Russian GU 50 tubes, with 12v transformer, and find after burn in of 80 hours to be superior to any other tubes I have rolled over the years. Started out with a Garage 1217 Ember and rolled tubes got me started, many in between but this FA amp has been the best so far. Was wondering if your present amp has the ability to run the GU 50 tubes?  They are dirt cheap $10-15 dollars for NOS and take a while to burn in, but once there they are amazing.  Will be try a dual adapter for both power slots with one KT88 and one GU 50 in each power adapter. A friend has the TT21's but I have not found any yet, but the KT88's are similar except for the external connection. Thank you for any thoughts, I really like the Amps ans Sound amps and may upgrade in that direction if the GU 50's can be used.


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## me2621a

@connieflyer ,
So I will be honest I have not heard of the GU50. I think my bigger question, before I even dig to deeply into this is, does a socket adapter exist for the GU50 -> KT88/6L6G, if not then that would end my exploration as I would not build one. 

As far as the question of will it work, I think that is a question for @ampsandsound directly. All of my roles are approved by him, to ensure I do not before blow up the amp haha. I would first though confirm if their is an octal adapter that maps the pins correctly before we continue. 

Also just a thought, the Felix Audio gear is nice, I have not personally listened to it, but given that they are OTL amps (let me know if I am wrong), and A&S amps are SET amps (except for the stereo 15, Casablanca, and Zion which are PP), I would say they are different beasts. You may prefer one over the other, but depending on your taste both could probably live side by side and give different sound and flavors. 

Also when you say Genelax KT88s are these new production or UK made?


----------



## ampsandsound

erics75 said:


> ZMF Pendant amp owners, is your 6CA4 rectifier socket wiggly? The power and input sockets are rock solid, but my rectifier socket has a slight wiggle to it. Nothing huge, but it does let the mounted tube wiggle a bit, light a newly loose tooth. Wondering if it's a problem that needs a trip in for fixing, or if that's normal for the rectifier socket. I did try a few different tubes, same behavior with all tubes.


It’s chassis mounted. The socket floats in a captive holder. The wiggle is just the float of the socket. When the tube is seated the connection is correct. The other tubes are soldered to a pcb as such they have a more fixed mounting. Both are as they should be and appropriate. Hope that helps.


----------



## connieflyer

me2621a said:


> @connieflyer ,
> So I will be honest I have not heard of the GU50. I think my bigger question, before I even dig to deeply into this is, does a socket adapter exist for the GU50 -> KT88/6L6G, if not then that would end my exploration as I would not build one.
> 
> As far as the question of will it work, I think that is a question for @ampsandsound directly. All of my roles are approved by him, to ensure I do not before blow up the amp haha. I would first though confirm if their is an octal adapter that maps the pins correctly before we continue.
> ...


 These are the russian-made tubes. Not the Great Britain made tubes. They have been performing very well in our amplifiers. . The gu 50 tube Does need a special adapter? . These are going to be started producing this month. From mrs. X on eBay. The ones I have were made by a friend of mine. In England. I doubt if they knew adapters would have an LED. Has mine have. But I suppose you are correct. , especially if you're not having heard of this tube that I should direct this directly to ampsandsound. . Sorry to take up some of your time on the thread Just thought you may have. Heard of these or use them


----------



## me2621a (Feb 12, 2020)

connieflyer said:


> These are the russian-made tubes. Not the Great Britain made tubes. They have been performing very well in our amplifiers. . The gu 50 tube Does need a special adapter? . These are going to be started producing this month. From mrs. X on eBay. The ones I have were made by a friend of mine. In England. I doubt if they knew adapters would have an LED. Has mine have. But I suppose you are correct. , especially if you're not having heard of this tube that I should direct this directly to ampsandsound. . Sorry to take up some of your time on the thread Just thought you may have. Heard of these or use them




Hey don't apologize, I am always excited to hear about new tube types, especially if you think they are better then the New Sensor KT88s which for new production tubes are considered pretty good. Can you link me to Mrs. X's eBay profile so I can keep an eye out for the adapters. In general these tubes look pretty interesting so once an adapter exists assuming there are no concerns about electrical incompatibility I am all for trying them.


***Actually, assuming I am reading this website correctly: http://www.jogis-roehrenbude.de/Russian/GU50.htm the GU50 is 12.6 volts on the heater, the Mogwai, Mogwai SE, and Bigger Ben are all 6.3 volts for the heater, which means the tube is incompatible. I do not speak Russian so I am going off the English translation at the bottom.


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## erics75

ampsandsound said:


> It’s chassis mounted. The socket floats in a captive holder. The wiggle is just the float of the socket. When the tube is seated the connection is correct. The other tubes are soldered to a pcb as such they have a more fixed mounting. Both are as they should be and appropriate. Hope that helps.


That is exactly what I wanted to hear! Thanks for the quick response, I feel better knowing it's normal. Amazing amp, btw. It's my first high end tube amp and I am still amazed how great it sounds. Makes my solid states sound so so dull....


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## Astral Abyss

erics75 said:


> That is exactly what I wanted to hear! Thanks for the quick response, I feel better knowing it's normal. Amazing amp, btw. It's my first high end tube amp and I am still amazed how great it sounds. Makes my solid states sound so so dull....


I was going to say that mine is the same way.  I figured it was due to the mounting employed.  It took me a bit also to not freak out over it.


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## 55Powers

@me2621a how are things going with the new amp?

Wondering: did you ever run the Susvaras on the taps of the Mogwai SE?


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## me2621a

55Powers said:


> @me2621a how are things going with the new amp?
> 
> Wondering: did you ever run the Susvaras on the taps of the Mogwai SE?



The new amp is fantastic. It has become my reference amp and I listen to it at least a few hour a day.

As for the Susvara and the Mogwai Se, yes I did. It performed excellently. The bigger Ben and Mogwai SE have the exact same power output. The real difference is the output transformers (twice the size and 5 taps). The larger output transformers provided more detail, space, and bass. Power and Drive were the same though between the two, and I fell for the Susvaras on the Mogwai SE. 

I do highly suggest you grab a 5AR4 or solid state rectifier though. I use mullard 5AR4s and they sounds great with the Susvara. 5u4gs work but the Susvara likes the additional power.


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## 55Powers

me2621a said:


> The new amp is fantastic. It has become my reference amp and I listen to it at least a few hour a day.
> 
> As for the Susvara and the Mogwai Se, yes I did. It performed excellently. The bigger Ben and Mogwai SE have the exact same power output. The real difference is the output transformers (twice the size and 5 taps). The larger output transformers provided more detail, space, and bass. Power and Drive were the same though between the two, and I fell for the Susvaras on the Mogwai SE.
> 
> I do highly suggest you grab a 5AR4 or solid state rectifier though. I use mullard 5AR4s and they sounds great with the Susvara. 5u4gs work but the Susvara likes the additional power.



Hehe, yeah I am locked and loaded on 5AR4s / GZ34s, running a Mullard as we speak. It makes the amp "grip"a bit better vs a more relaxed 5u4 to me.

I got myself a Susvara as well, still waiting on my banana adapter.
Very happy with the sound the SE offers on jack, but i am anxious to try the taps out.

Do you ever run other output impedances than 8 into the Susvaras though?


----------



## me2621a

55Powers said:


> Hehe, yeah I am locked and loaded on 5AR4s / GZ34s, running a Mullard as we speak. It makes the amp "grip"a bit better vs a more relaxed 5u4 to me.
> 
> I got myself a Susvara as well, still waiting on my banana adapter.
> Very happy with the sound the SE offers on jack, but i am anxious to try the taps out.
> ...



On the Mogwai SE, only the 8ohm, on the Bigger Ben I run it on the 16 ohm and 8 ohm tap depending on the tube compliment. Mostly I run it on the 8ohm in general.


----------



## 55Powers

me2621a said:


> On the Mogwai SE, only the 8ohm, on the Bigger Ben I run it on the 16 ohm and 8 ohm tap depending on the tube compliment. Mostly I run it on the 8ohm in general.



Interesting with the 16. I also really like the 8, that being said, I have only 3 jacks. 

What's your fav input tube for the Susvara, still on the ECC35?


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## me2621a

55Powers said:


> Interesting with the 16. I also really like the 8, that being said, I have only 3 jacks.
> 
> What's your fav input tube for the Susvara, still on the ECC35?



I am big fan of the a2900 (plus adapter) with the Susvara, the ECC35 is great, and the TS black glass round plate 6SU7 is also quite nice.


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## 55Powers

me2621a said:


> I am big fan of the a2900 (plus adapter) with the Susvara, the ECC35 is great, and the TS black glass round plate 6SU7 is also quite nice.



Thank you @me2621a. Will look into esp the a2900. Knowing you it won't be light on the wallet.


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## zach915m

Full article now on Stereophile about the ZMF Pendant (made by ampsandsound for ZMF) as well as the ZMF auteur and V Closed.

https://www.stereophile.com/content...-zmf-hagerman-headphones-headphone-amplifiers

The Pendant was also ranked an A+ component in their yearly recommend guide: https://www.stereophile.com/content/recommended-components-2020-edition-headphones


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## me2621a

Hey guys, just wanted to let you know that I am downsizing and selling off my Suolo (Kenzie) Monos, link to the listing is here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ampsandsound-suolo-monos-lifetime-supply-of-tubes-and-extras.929266/ comes with a lifetime of NOS and ANOS tubes.


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## Rah47 (Apr 27, 2020)

Hi, all.  I've been avid peruser of HeadFi for a long time now, and with my recent purchase of a set of ampsandsound Suolo monos, a decision aided in no small part by what I read here, I thought it was finally time to post something detailing my first impressions after a few days with the Suolos.

By way of background, I should note that I am a tube novice and the Suolos are my first time purchasing a non-solid state product, so apologies for any imprecision in what follows -- I'm still learning!  Prior to the addition of the Suolos, my current setup was a set of Focal Utopias being fed from an RME-ADI 2 DAC via a Sonore Ultrarendu/Uptone 1.2 LPS and powered by an original (i.e. non-hybrid) Schitt Mjolnir.  My understanding, which had been validated by my listening, was that both the RME and the Mjolnir were on the clinical end of the sound spectrum, and given that the Utopias themselves excel at detail retrieval and can be, for me, occasionally a tad bright, I was hoping to switch to a tube amp setup to bring a bit of warmth/humidity to the sound.  Lately I tend to listen mostly to Qobuz FLAC/High Res stuff by way of Audirvana, which probably contributed to the slight brittleness of sound I was experiencing.  On the whole I LOVED what I was getting from the Utopias, and I didn't want to sacrifice much of their speed and precision, but I hoped to find an amplification solution that would give the sound a bit more body.  I should also mention that I am big fan of bass, and I came to the Utopias from the LCD 2s, whose bass I adored.  But while I sometimes missed the Audeze's low frequency depth, I also understood that depth wouldn't fit in with the Utopia's overall presentation, and so I made my peace with what the Utopias offer in terms of low end.  That being said, when I thought about a new amp I'd preferred not to have it diminish the bass that the Utopias do have (i.e. I was fine with the Utopias' bass I was getting, but given my affection for the LCD 2s in this area I didn't want to have settle with any less!).

Anyway, having always has solid state equipment, I thought tubes might be the direction for my next upgrade, and over the past couple of months I read as much about tube amps as I could, including deep dives on various manufacturers.  Long story short, in the course of my investigations I came across ampsandsound and Justin, and very quickly I became impressed both with the design philosophy around his amps but also the fact that Justin seemed like a decent and excessively friendly/accessible/helpful member of the audiophile community.  Maybe this comes across as silly, but since listening to music for me is all about the heart, finding a person who builds gear who also shares a deep passion for what music can mean was very important to me.  So after reading everything I could about ampsandsound I decided to contact Justin to talk about his amps and which one might be most appropriate for me given what I was hoping to get out of my Utopias.  Justin immediately responded and within a day Justin called and he kindly devoted 45 minutes of his busy day telling me all about how he designs his amps and what I could expect with them.  I say it was a busy day for him because, as Justin notes on the bio section of the ampsandsound website, his full time gig is as a social worker who specializes in working with psychiatric and medical populations, and in the time of COVID, there is no short of front line care to be given by him  But despite the heavy demands of his day job, he still patiently explained the nuances of his amplifier philosophy to a stranger who may or may not end up buying anything.  In terms of customer care, that certainly made a stellar first impression, and by the end of the call I knew Justin was the right person with whom to start my tube journey.  So I decided to go for the Sulolo monos because they seem to be best fit in terms of providing my Utopias with both the warmth and slam I was looking for.  A few days later I was greeted by a couple of massive Seahorse cases -- best packing job I've yet witnessed for audio gear -- at my front door and my tube journey had begun!

In the last year or so I've done a lot of upgrading to my headphone setup, and with each change I've made I've been able to say unambiguously that what I was hearing sounded better than before.  That was especially true moving from the LCD2s to the the Utopias, and it was a common occurrence here for my wife to have to listen to me rave on about how staggeringly good the Utopias sounded.  Well, my first night with the Suolos, which had only just begun breaking in, and the Utopias out of the 32ohm taps was an experience of a completely different magnitude.  I'm at a loss for words to describe what happened, but after 4 hours or so of listening, my decompression from a challenging week, I found myself in the middle of  "Because" off of Abbey Road -- one of my go to albums when I just want to. . . lose myself in music -- when I started crying.  I mean tears were rolling down my cheeks.  Because, so to speak, I had NEVER heard anything approaching the beauty and sweetness and depth of what I was hearing then.  I can't remember the last time I felt such an emotional connection to music.  It was astounding.  The music was round and deep and sweet and had such. . . authority (that's the word that kept circling in my brain). Something that was true of whatever I threw at the amps:  Metallica, John Prine, 100 gecs, Miles Davis, Tame Impala, Sleigh Bells, Raekwon, The Beatles, Kraftwerk, Talk, Talk. Whatever it was, the Suolos handled it with authority and grace. I think my biggest concern about a tube amp was whether it would slam enough and have enough low end frame to keep the whole picture together.  Not an issue with the Suolos.  Holy God those things hit hard!!!!  But hit hard with an authority that was less the efficient well-oiled machine pummeling my eardrums I got from my previous SS experiences, and more like. . . Henry VIII running around in his velvet and ermine smacking me in the head with his golden scepter (really, that's the image I had in my head as I was listening).   If that makes sense/doesn't sound too unhinged.  🙂  SS=authority by way of ruthless technical precision, while the Suolos=authority by way of royal grandeur and pageantry.


I could rave on about this for a long time, but in the end that night and the several nights that followed have left me completely blown away by the size of the improvement the Suolos brought.  I had NO idea the Utopias could sound as good as they do now.  And this at the very start of my experience with amps and stock tubes that are still settling in!    As big as the leap from the LCD2s to the Utopias was for me, the leap from the Utopias to the Utopias with the Suolos was even bigger.  Still completely gobsmacked by it.  Yow.  So I just want to say well done -- WELL DONE -- Justin.   It's clear that you are passionate about audio, and I hope it brings you a bit of happiness knowing what all your work has brought to my corner of the world.  You spread love, my man.  🙂 Can't wait to see where my journey with the Suolos takes me.

Peace.

Daniel


----------



## alvin sawdust

55Powers said:


> Thank you @me2621a. Will look into esp the a2900. Knowing you it won't be light on the wallet.


The a2900 are a fantastic tube and not expensive. I used a pair in a Apex Teton and I thought they were as good as my GEC A1832.


----------



## me2621a

alvin sawdust said:


> The a2900 are a fantastic tube and not expensive. I used a pair in a Apex Teton and I thought they were as good as my GEC A1832.



Yah the a2900 is excellent. Listening to one right now and it just brings a smile to my face every time.


----------



## Bhk1004

just curious if anyone has some references I can look into for tube rolling for the ZMF pendant? Already saw a few recommendations, bought some tubes, went through some of the recommendations on some of the reviews. Also bought the tubes from Zach for his vintage tubes. Just curious if anyone else happened to have any recommendations or any feedback on what they have tried.


----------



## me2621a

So I recently took delivery of a custom order from ampsandsound and it is quite excellent. This started when I asked Justin to build me a Kenzie, but to instead us the Bigger Bens output iron, choke, and coupling capacitors. Like my Bigger Ben, I was looking for a power amp version (no volume control) and this time I added a high/low gain switch. We decided to go with a Solid State rectifier to maximize power, power supply, and bass. Ironically, we did not end up going with the Bigger Bens output iron, but instead a custom 20 watt output transformer optimized for the lower power output of the Kenzie. 

After taking delivery and putting in a lovely 2C52 input tube, I am left with a smile. It is everything the Kenzie/Suolo Monos were, but with more depth, better tone, and clearer and cleaner space. This makes sense, with less than a half a watt of output power the transformers are so over spec’d that they seem to simply just disappear. I will have more to say in the future, but the bass of this amp is simply the best of any amp I have ever heard. Detail, depth, and slam are incredible. I use them with my Stellia, but to my surprise the amp sounded quite good with the Hifiman Susvara.


----------



## johnnypaddock

Bhk1004 said:


> just curious if anyone has some references I can look into for tube rolling for the ZMF pendant? Already saw a few recommendations, bought some tubes, went through some of the recommendations on some of the reviews. Also bought the tubes from Zach for his vintage tubes. Just curious if anyone else happened to have any recommendations or any feedback on what they have tried.



For my Pendant I use a pair of Amperex halo-getter EL84 tubes along with a 50's Mullard UK made EZ81 rectifier tube. I swap out the 12AU7 / 12AT7 tube from time to time but my favorite is a Telefunken early 60's 12AU7. It has an excellent soundstage, smooth and holographic. Another one that is very close is an Amperex Bugle Boy from around the same time frame. I find both to be pretty neutral, not emphasizing any end of the spectrum too much.

I've tried Siemens W. German, CBS black plate, and Mullard CV4003 in that slot but none really do the trick for me. The Mullard in particular has a warm sound signature that was too much when used with my ZMF headphones.

Every now and then I'll use a 1960 Telefunken 12AT7 for some extra power, but I always go back to the 12AU7 because I prefer the lower gain / noise floor.


----------



## Bhk1004

johnnypaddock said:


> For my Pendant I use a pair of Amperex halo-getter EL84 tubes along with a 50's Mullard UK made EZ81 rectifier tube. I swap out the 12AU7 / 12AT7 tube from time to time but my favorite is a Telefunken early 60's 12AU7. It has an excellent soundstage, smooth and holographic. Another one that is very close is an Amperex Bugle Boy from around the same time frame. I find both to be pretty neutral, not emphasizing any end of the spectrum too much.
> 
> I've tried Siemens W. German, CBS black plate, and Mullard CV4003 in that slot but none really do the trick for me. The Mullard in particular has a warm sound signature that was too much when used with my ZMF headphones.
> 
> Every now and then I'll use a 1960 Telefunken 12AT7 for some extra power, but I always go back to the 12AU7 because I prefer the lower gain / noise floor.


Thanks! Will add to my spread sheets of must try tubes.


----------



## elChefe

me2621a said:


>


Wow the build looks awesome! Amazing workmanship and attenuation to detail. I love how clean everything looks! After hearing the mogwai at canjam, I really want to hear the bigger Ben. Just out of curiosity.. what are those resistors for on the headphone sockets? Do they limit the power so the headphones don’t accidentally get blown up?


----------



## nwavesailor

I am gathering an assortment of tubes for a Pendant that I have ordered. 

I think I'm good with my 12AU7 and 12AT7 tube collection and I'm sure some will work well. (TS, Amperex, Mullard, HiVac, Valvo, Tele) 
I was looking at using the A2900 but, after checking with Justin, I was informed that the current draw of 400ma was way too much for use in the Pendant.
I picked up the current production TS 7198 (EL84) as well as Tungsram EL84 from the 1970 and Reflector production 1980's 6P14P-ER. 
For EZ81 rectifiers I have Tesla, RFT, Amperex 6CA4 and a Telefunken branded UK production Mullard.

I think I have enough (is there EVER enough?) to try various combinations in the Pendant paired with ZMF VO and hopefully with Empy's, too!


----------



## jkpenrose

nwavesailor said:


> I am gathering an assortment of tubes for a Pendant that I have ordered.
> 
> I think I'm good with my 12AU7 and 12AT7 tube collection and I'm sure some will work well. (TS, Amperex, Mullard, HiVac, Valvo, Tele)
> I was looking at using the A2900 but, after checking with Justin, I was informed that the current draw of 400ma was way too much for use in the Pendant.
> ...


Interested in your impressions... I'm pla Ning to order the pendant next week


----------



## Bhk1004

I have amassed like 30 or so tubes. Pendant will be molested when it finally arrives.

Also the vintage tube set from zmf. Think the stock to vintage tubes will give me a good feel to then play with rolling.


----------



## bpiotrow13

Hi All, Has anybody an expirience with listening to Audeze lcd 3 with A&S amps? I have lcd 3 which i listen to with Burson conductor cv2+. I am happy with this setup but looking also for alternative tube amp with more "tubey" sound than burson. Can anyone tell what could be the best match for lcd 3: zmf pendant/A&S mogwai/ kenzie? How is it different to woo audio wa22? Many thanks for any thoughts.


----------



## Little Bear

I don't think the Kenzie would have the current capability to command the LCD-3 to its potential.  I think the Mogwai and Pendant would.


----------



## ScornDefeat

Little Bear said:


> I don't think the Kenzie would have the current capability to command the LCD-3 to its potential.  I think the Mogwai and Pendant would.



I echo this sentiment, as well. The best option for Planars would likely be a solid state-rectified Mogwai or Pendant (Stereo Leeloo, which I think ampsandsound will custom build).


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## bpiotrow13

Many thanks, really helpful.  Anyone compared Mogwai/pendant to Woo audio wa 22, which is commonly recommended for lcd 3? I have come across a view that wa 22 is overpriced and pendant is better. What is the difference in sound between Mogwai and pendant?


----------



## me2621a

bpiotrow13 said:


> Hi All, Has anybody an expirience with listening to Audeze lcd 3 with A&S amps? I have lcd 3 which i listen to with Burson conductor cv2+. I am happy with this setup but looking also for alternative tube amp with more "tubey" sound than burson. Can anyone tell what could be the best match for lcd 3: zmf pendant/A&S mogwai/ kenzie? How is it different to woo audio wa22? Many thanks for any thoughts.




I have not owned the LCD-3 in quite some time. Assuming you have a Fazored LCD-3, that headphone is 101 dB efficient according to Audezes website. I have listened to and have owned pretty much all of A&S amps, and currently have a Bigger Ben (which is a Mogwai SE with larger output tranformers and a bigger choke and better coupling caps, and the SE is essencially just a Mogwai that is tube rectified, with larger Transformers), and a custom built Kenzie (which I have nick named the ovation, it is essentially a Kenzie Encore but with 20 watt output transformers and a bigger choke). 

The most versatile amp in the A&S lineup with the biggest bang for the buck in my opinion in the Mogwai SE, I had it for over a year and found it unbelievable. I have listenned to the WA22, it is a good amp, but the Mogwai SE, in my opinion is a more natural, faster, and gets tone just right, I also personally think it has better bass. The WA22 is a balanced amp and therfore a totally different beast from the A&S stuff. all of A&S amps are single ended, and in the case of the Mogwai SE, it is a single ended triode with zero feedback, this is the same for all derivatives of the Mogwai. Some people love the sound of a single ended triode, and I  fall into that camp. Nothing to me sounds as life like and as detailed when done right. 


Specifically for the Mogwai SE and the Bigger Ben, you can run it with a solid state rectifier plugin, however I would guess that its noise floor might be to high with the 101db efficient LCD-3s. With the tube rectifiers the Mogwai SE powered, with ease, the Mr. Speakers Ether Flow (way less efficient then the LCD-3F, and sounded great with a 5u4g or a 5AR4), the Hifiman HE1000SE (96db efficient, I personally use the 5u4g, however a 5AR4 can be used), the Hifiman Susvara (83db efficient, prefer this one with a 5AR4 over a 5U4g, and it is enjoyable with a SS plugin as well, the lower efficiency made a higher noise floor a non-issue), it also has been a pleasure to use with my Utopias and my Stellias (104db efficient, only usable with a 5u4g in this case). It also powered the Abyss 1266 Phi without an issue (88db efficient). 

You would be surprised at how powerful a Kenzie sounds. I personally, if you were to go the Kenzie route, would recommend a Kenzie Encore. The original is nice, but the larger transformers makes the encore sound bigger. It is also slightly more powerful. I had the Suolo Monos before my ovation (which is a tube rectified Kenzie done with turret boards and bigger transformers) and it powered all of my headphones well except the 1266 phi and the susvara. The 1266 sounded good, but not as good as it did on the Mogwai, the Susvara simply needed more power. The Hifiman HE1000SE sounded wonderful on that amp, and is still my go to on the Kenzie Ovation. At 101db efficient you will not have an issue. Like the Mogwai the Kenzie is a single ended triode with zero feedback. The thing about kenzie is tone and space are amazing. I am constently amazed when I listen to it. It is warmer though and some do not like that. I did not think the  LCD-3F was a dark headphone, warm tilting but not like the pre-fazor models. If you feel the LCD-3F is warm though don’t go Kenzie unless you want more. 

The Pendent and Leeloo (Solid state rectified pendent) are a little different then the above two. They are single ended, but use feedback. They may also run in ultra linear mode instead of triode mode (not 100% sure about that though). They sound great, but I found them both a little boring, things were just a bit smoothed over. This is how this topology is supposed to sound, and some really like it, but I like the more dynamic nature of 0 feedback amps. Either amp will easily power the LCD-3Fs but will be more limited in tube rolling (this is true for the Kenzie but the 1626 is just awesome). 

Long story short, assuming you have the 3F, pretty much any amp in the A&S line will work. The Mogwai SE is in my opinion is the performance per dollar champion and because you can choose between a SS plugin, 5u4g, and 5AR4 for the rectifier, it gives you the most flexibility, and a ton of output tube options to choose from. High efficient headphones on one side, low efficient headphones and high efficient speakers on the other. If that is out of your price range I think the Mogwai or Kenzie Encore are more fun to listen to then the Leeloo or Pendent, with the Mogwai being more neutral depending on the tubes you select and the Kenzie having more tone but a warmer presentation. All these amps will provide a great mid-range, nice top ends, and excellent bass. 

Hope this helps, solid state rectification is great, but I have found that I personally prefer tube rectification when push comes to shove (even on the Hifiman Susvara).


----------



## exdmd

Does not the rule of 8 apply to the LCD-3 or LCD-3F running from a tube amp? Both are 110 Ohm impedance headphones, which would imply the amp driving them needs a transformer tap of 110/8 = 13.75 Ohms or less. The Mogwai SE should work as it has 8/32/300 headphone outs, also the Pendant from ZMF using the 8 Ohm tap. The Bigger Ben is even more versatile but at a much higher price. I would think the Kenzie would be a less than optimum match as the lowest output impedance jack is 32 Ohms. 32 Ohm out from my Kenzie works great with my 300 Ohm HD-800S phones.


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## Rah47 (Jun 25, 2020)

exdmd said:


> Does not the rule of 8 apply to the LCD-3 or LCD-3F running from a tube amp? Both are 110 Ohm impedance headphones, which would imply the amp driving them needs a transformer tap of 110/8 = 13.75 Ohms or less. The Mogwai SE should work as it has 8/32/300 headphone outs, also the Pendant from ZMF using the 8 Ohm tap. The Bigger Ben is even more versatile but at a much higher price. I would think the Kenzie would be a less than optimum match as the lowest output impedance jack is 32 Ohms. 32 Ohm out from my Kenzie works great with my 300 Ohm HD-800S phones.


Not sure about the LCDs you reference, but with my Utopias, which are 80ohms impedance, running them off the 32ohm output of my Suolos is noticeably superior to what I get out of the 8ohm tap.  Of course a lot of this is dependent on the sound you are looking for from your headphones, but in the case of the Utopias, the added ohms produce a much juicer bass profile/slam than what I heard from the 8ohm output, something I highly enjoy.  Since my grasp of the finer points of electrical engineering is pretty minimal, I'll leave it to others to address the technical aspects of your question, but my understanding, such as it is, is that running the relatively low impedance Utopias out of the higher ohm tap results in higher voltage being sent to them, and given the Utopias impedance plot this added voltage tends to accentuates the low end.  This from Tyll Herstens review of the Utopias:

"Impedance plot shows a headphone with a nominal 85 Ohm impedance, but at the primary resonance hump at 50Hz impedance ascends to just over 300 Ohms. Headphone amplifiers with an output impedance of over 10 Ohm may begin to emphasize this hump. If done judiciously this may give these headphones a tasty bit of umph in the lows."

https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/worlds-best-headphone-focal-utopia-measurements

So I think the effect that the added ohms have on a relatively low impedance headphone depends on the impedance response for that headphone.  I.e. I don't think it can always be said that the rule of 8 applies, but it may well when it comes to the LCDs.  Anyway, my very non-expert $.02.  All I can say for sure is that my Utopias sound, for me, superior running off of 32ohms than 8.


----------



## me2621a

exdmd said:


> Does not the rule of 8 apply to the LCD-3 or LCD-3F running from a tube amp? Both are 110 Ohm impedance headphones, which would imply the amp driving them needs a transformer tap of 110/8 = 13.75 Ohms or less. The Mogwai SE should work as it has 8/32/300 headphone outs, also the Pendant from ZMF using the 8 Ohm tap. The Bigger Ben is even more versatile but at a much higher price. I would think the Kenzie would be a less than optimum match as the lowest output impedance jack is 32 Ohms. 32 Ohm out from my Kenzie works great with my 300 Ohm HD-800S phones.



Like all things, audio is subjective. I run my Susvara off both the 8 and 32 ohm taps, and sometimes the 16 (bigger Ben has 8,16,32,100,300). 

It is not a hard and fast rule. Similarly I liked the utopia more off the 32 when I had it, more body. Point is do not get hung up on the rule of 8, but use it as guidance. I am sure the LCD-3F would sound great on 32 or on the 8 ohm tap. I personally run my Stella (which has a 32 ohm impedance) on the 32 ohm tap, and I have run 300 ohm headphones on the 300 ohm tap. 

I also don’t think a headphone amp exists with an output of exactly 110/8, and even if it did, what happens if you buy another another. Personally I think what is nice is the A&S amps have multiple choices. Again the Mogwai SE gives you the widest range possible with the 8 ohm tap and the 32 and 300. The Mogwai technically has this as well but you need a speaker tap adapter.


----------



## omniweltall

FYI, I run my Mogwai through 8-ohm speaker tap for various headphones, including the 8-ohm Verum. Sounds great.


----------



## bpiotrow13

me2621a said:


> I have not owned the LCD-3 in quite some time. Assuming you have a Fazored LCD-3, that headphone is 101 dB efficient according to Audezes website. I have listened to and have owned pretty much all of A&S amps, and currently have a Bigger Ben (which is a Mogwai SE with larger output tranformers and a bigger choke and better coupling caps, and the SE is essencially just a Mogwai that is tube rectified, with larger Transformers), and a custom built Kenzie (which I have nick named the ovation, it is essentially a Kenzie Encore but with 20 watt output transformers and a bigger choke).
> 
> The most versatile amp in the A&S lineup with the biggest bang for the buck in my opinion in the Mogwai SE, I had it for over a year and found it unbelievable. I have listenned to the WA22, it is a good amp, but the Mogwai SE, in my opinion is a more natural, faster, and gets tone just right, I also personally think it has better bass. The WA22 is a balanced amp and therfore a totally different beast from the A&S stuff. all of A&S amps are single ended, and in the case of the Mogwai SE, it is a single ended triode with zero feedback, this is the same for all derivatives of the Mogwai. Some people love the sound of a single ended triode, and I  fall into that camp. Nothing to me sounds as life like and as detailed when done right.
> 
> ...


Wow, thanks a lot for your reply. Really really helpful. 
Yes I have lcd 3f. I used to have lcd 2f and  it is suprising how bright lcd 3f are. As mentioned i am looking for an alternative amp for my burson cv2 (which is great and is staying with me). Mogway SE is beyond budged i am afraid. I guess you recommend Mogwai in this case. Could you write a few more sentences on how it is diffrent to wa22? (Not really sure i know single ended triode sound). I am looking for an amp with fat, colourful sound with good soundstage and instrument separation. I am not looking for natural sound (that i can pretty much get from burson).


----------



## me2621a

bpiotrow13 said:


> Wow, thanks a lot for your reply. Really really helpful.
> Yes I have lcd 3f. I used to have lcd 2f and  it is suprising how bright lcd 3f are. As mentioned i am looking for an alternative amp for my burson cv2 (which is great and is staying with me). Mogway SE is beyond budged i am afraid. I guess you recommend Mogwai in this case. Could you write a few more sentences on how it is diffrent to wa22? (Not really sure i know single ended triode sound). I am looking for an amp with fat, colourful sound with good soundstage and instrument separation. I am not looking for natural sound (that i can pretty much get from burson).



It’s hard to describe sadly. The WA22 is a rich sounding amp in my opinion. It’s good but just not my taste. I find it sounds a bit slow, and very tuby unless you spend a lot of money on aftermarket tubes. I did not own one, only have listened to them at friends houses and at meets. 

Single ended triodes when done right can transport you to the room where the recording happened. They are effortless, natural with a touch of warmth, they can be warmer with different tubes but they can also be incredibly neutral, and holographic. Detail will be remarkable. It is really hard to do single ended 0 Feedback well, and A&S does. 

The Mogwai will be the most versatile option. 6L6GC output tubes will give you warmth, EL34s will give you an amazing mid range, KT88s and 6550s will give you linear power. The Mogwai with the wide range of output tube options and wide range of input tube options (6SL7, 12ax7, 12at7, 12au7) allows you to change the voicing as you want. RCA 6SL7 black plate plus 6L6Gc will be warmer and more tuby, then a 12ax7 and 6550. 

Based on your description of what you want though, something warm and a bit fatter, the Kenzie encore may be a good
Option as well. It’s max output power will be more limiting, though I question how much that matters given how many headphones are now 95+ dB efficient. I love my Kenzie Ovation, and loved my Suolo monos before it. The LCD 3F should match well based on the spec but the Mogwai will likely have a little more slam. 

Again all of the options you are looking at are good options. I have noticed that once people discover A&S they tend to stick with them. You may want to give A&S a call. Justin can help you choose the right amp based on your preferences. 

Either way I think you need to ask yourself this: “Do I want an amp that sounds great but fundamentally has one configuration and one sound” then the answer is the Kenzie Encore. Or “Do I want an amp that will sound great, but provides many different configuration options, that can become very expensive, but will allow me to tailor to what I want today, tomorrow, and next year” then the Mogwai is probably the winner. I personally am a guy who wants to find the optimal combination of tubes, I have a collection at this point of probably over 100 NOS tubes just for my Bigger Ben. I find the process of collecting them and hearing them fun, and it has made the hobby more fun for me. However for some this level of optionality can be overwhelming and a draw back, especially if your a perfectionist. You don’t have to explore the combos, but it is important to call out that you will have a lot of options with the Mogwai. To be clear the stock tubes are actually good, and new production tubes have gotten better and are reasonably priced. But like almost all tube amps, better tubes will make the amp sound better. 


Hope that helps.


----------



## bpiotrow13

It helps a lot, thanks. I need to think that over. To be frank my initial thought was wa22, as it is recommended for lcd3 but i come over A&S amps discussions, and started to explore, though not many people use A&S with lcd 3.


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## Bhk1004

You can always email A&S. He also likes to talk on the phone. Very informative and nice. Made me feel very comfy about my purchase.


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## me2621a

I echo the point above. Give A&S and email, Justin is a good guy and will gladly chat with you about if his amps are right for you. I don’t think you will go wrong either way to be clear. Woo makes great stuff, just remember that there are more woo amps in the world, which is why more people have used them with more headphones.


----------



## omniweltall

me2621a said:


> I echo the point above. Give A&S and email, Justin is a good guy and will gladly chat with you about if his amps are right for you. I don’t think you will go wrong either way to be clear. Woo makes great stuff, just remember that there are more woo amps in the world, which is why more people have used them with more headphones.


Have you ever compared A&S amps to DNA and Eddie Current amps?


----------



## johnnypaddock

omniweltall said:


> Have you ever compared A&S amps to DNA and Eddie Current amps?



I had a DNA Stratus with my Pendant for a bit. Here are my thoughts from the comparison, in case it helps.




johnnypaddock said:


> I briefly owned a DNA Stratus. It's really a beautiful amp. The layering was insanely good, and the resolution was right up there. I found it to have a full, rich sound signature that might have been too much of a good thing when matched up with the Verite. I ended up preferring the Pendant in my system. I found that the speed and dynamics were better, with the presentation being more "up front". I could get more of a visceral impact with the Pendant. That said, I was using stock tubes in the Stratus and upgraded NOS tubes in the Pendant so I'm sure that was a factor.


----------



## me2621a

omniweltall said:


> Have you ever compared A&S amps to DNA and Eddie Current amps?




I have not spent enough time with either to form a real opinion, hopefully in the future.


----------



## Traiguen

Just received my new (used) Leeloo!!! - it's just beautiful.
My ZMF Verites have not arrived yet, so I am enjoying the amp with 6xx....


----------



## Astral Abyss

Traiguen said:


> Just received my new (used) Leeloo!!! - it's just beautiful.
> My ZMF Verites have not arrived yet, so I am enjoying the amp with 6xx....


 Nice amp!  I don't think it's an original Leeloo though.  Leeloo has 4 transformers.  They came with 8ohm speaker outputs too.  Looks more like a Pendant with solid state rectification.   I have both.  No reason to be disappointed though.  They're both great amp and sound very similar.


----------



## Astral Abyss

Or is it 3 transformers and a large choke?


----------



## Maalis

Is there a list of compatible tubes for the Pendant (with or without adapters)? I just got mine last week and I've been enjoying every moment.


----------



## Traiguen

Astral Abyss said:


> Nice amp!  I don't think it's an original Leeloo though.  Leeloo has 4 transformers.  They came with 8ohm speaker outputs too.  Looks more like a Pendant with solid state rectification.   I have both.  No reason to be disappointed though.  They're both great amp and sound very similar.


What would you say is the sound difference between a SS and tube rectification?
This amp I have - Leeloo original or not - has 3 transformers and 8ohm speaker outputs.


----------



## Traiguen

Astral Abyss said:


> Nice amp!  I don't think it's an original Leeloo though.  Leeloo has 4 transformers.  They came with 8ohm speaker outputs too.  Looks more like a Pendant with solid state rectification.   I have both.  No reason to be disappointed though.  They're both great amp and sound very similar.


Which tubes do you have on your Leeloo?


----------



## Astral Abyss

Traiguen said:


> What would you say is the sound difference between a SS and tube rectification?
> This amp I have - Leeloo original or not - has 3 transformers and 8ohm speaker outputs.


On Pendant, it really doesn't make much difference in the sound that I've noticed, compared to Leeloo.
Hmm, must have been a prototype for Pendant or something.



Traiguen said:


> Which tubes do you have on your Leeloo?


I've been using a combo recommended by Justin.  Sovtek EL84Ms and a Raytheon 5755 (with adapter)  He said it's not an investment in cost, but an investment in time.  The combo takes at least 100 hours to really start sounding sweet.

The Tungsram EL84s are nice power tubes.  I've been using them with a triple mica Sylvania 12AT7WA in Pendant.

I also like the Russian 6P14P power tubes, especially the E and EV variants.  Try them with a Raytheon 5751 windmill getter, if you can find one.

I have a quite a few tubes.


----------



## Traiguen (Jul 14, 2020)

Astral Abyss said:


> On Pendant, it really doesn't make much difference in the sound that I've noticed, compared to Leeloo.
> Hmm, must have been a prototype for Pendant or something.
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks, I will try the Sovtek EL84M combo.
My LeeLoo comes with 3 "Red Tip" tubes, I have changed the 12AX7 with 2 different tubes and I always get a lot of background noise.  I guess all 3 tubes have to be changed together.


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## Astral Abyss (Jul 14, 2020)

12ax7s have a lot of gain.  I prefer the 12at7/5751s myself.

What headphones are you using with it?


----------



## ampsandsound

The Leeloo was the bases of the Pendant. That unit has a huge choke stuck under it like the pendants do too. 
The red tip tubes are likely Baldwin sylvania and are really lovely. Noise floor is relative to efficiency of the headphones you're using.  
Id try rolling in 12AU7s or ECC99. The JJ ECC99/JJ EL84 gives really lovely base.


----------



## Traiguen

Astral Abyss said:


> 12ax7s have a lot of gain.  I prefer the 12at7/5751s myself.
> 
> What headphones are you using with it?


I have a 6XX and also a Hifiman HE-1000 V2.  As soon as I change the 12AX7 the noise begins!, with the 3 red tips it is dead silent.


----------



## Traiguen

ampsandsound said:


> The Leeloo was the bases of the Pendant. That unit has a huge choke stuck under it like the pendants do too.
> The red tip tubes are likely Baldwin sylvania and are really lovely. Noise floor is relative to efficiency of the headphones you're using.
> Id try rolling in 12AU7s or ECC99. The JJ ECC99/JJ EL84 gives really lovely base.


Thanks, I will try the JJ - lovely bass is always welcome in my system.


----------



## Little Bear

After talking to Justin for a couple hours Friday about which amp to buy, I settled on the Mogwai SE with Jupiter cap upgrade.  He already had the amp built, and he dropped it off at Fedex less than an hour after we got off the phone.  It's on the way and will be here mid-week!  My ZMF Auteurs are still being made, but I have a pair of HD800S's I can use to break in the Mog.  This is my first tube amp!


----------



## Wes S

Little Bear said:


> After talking to Justin for a couple hours Friday about which amp to buy, I settled on the Mogwai SE with Jupiter cap upgrade.  He already had the amp built, and he dropped it off at Fedex less than an hour after we got off the phone.  It's on the way and will be here mid-week!  My ZMF Auteurs are still being made, but I have a pair of HD800S's I can use to break in the Mog.  This is my first tube amp!


WOW!! You went straight to the top, and it does not get any better than the Mogwai SE.  I am a bit jealous you got there before me, but I will own that amp someday.   That should be a match made in heaven with the Auteurs!


----------



## Little Bear

Wes S said:


> WOW!! You went straight to the top, and it does not get any better than the Mogwai SE.  I am a bit jealous you got there before me, but I will own that amp someday.   That should be a match made in heaven with the Auteurs!



Yep, both Justin and Zach of ZMF love the ZMF/ampsandsound pairings, as well as their customers.  So I feel very confident I'll be happy with my choice.  I'll probably add a Verite at some point too.  I really like Justin's design philosophy and the old-school look of his amps.

I also considered the Bigger Ben, but we both agreed it's way more amp than I'll be able to make use of, considering the headphones I use most.  He definitely favored the Mog for me, and I agree with his reasoning.  It's probably the biggest bang for the buck in the whole lineup.


----------



## Bhk1004

I really wanted the Mogwai SE, but decided to calm it down and went with a pendant. Possibly in the future. 

Let us know how it is after you get some listening time!


----------



## Little Bear

Bhk1004 said:


> I really wanted the Mogwai SE, but decided to calm it down and went with a pendant. Possibly in the future.
> 
> Let us know how it is after you get some listening time!



The Pendant was, and still is, a very attractive amp to me.  I very nearly bought one a couple weeks back.  But ultimately the Mogwai offered a wider range of tube rolling options and a larger transformer, and more power.  I imagine I would end up with one anyway eventually, so I went ahead and bought it first.


----------



## steve468

I've had a Pendant for a few weeks now (absolutely lovely is my official review), and I've definitely fallen down the tube rabbit hole. Half the fun of I'm having with the Pendant is digging through the dusty areas of the internet searching for tubey treasures, and seeing how they change the Pendant's character. One thing that confuses me, how can we tell if a tube is compatible with an amp? For example, earlier in this thread someone noted that a 5755 tube was recommended, which I gathered is a fairly rare tube and which needs an adapter to work with the Pendant. I've also read about the 12BH7 and 6CG7, which are direct drop ins for the 12AU7, except not really because it draws more current and could cause damage. I guess my question is, is there a way to know from specs or something else which tubes will work with an amp? Sorry if this is more of a general tube question then an ampsandsound question.


----------



## Bhk1004

I have no info to help, but please post if you find some awesome tubes!


----------



## Little Bear (Jul 20, 2020)

steve468 said:


> I've had a Pendant for a few weeks now (absolutely lovely is my official review), and I've definitely fallen down the tube rabbit hole. Half the fun of I'm having with the Pendant is digging through the dusty areas of the internet searching for tubey treasures, and seeing how they change the Pendant's character. One thing that confuses me, how can we tell if a tube is compatible with an amp? For example, earlier in this thread someone noted that a 5755 tube was recommended, which I gathered is a fairly rare tube and which needs an adapter to work with the Pendant. I've also read about the 12BH7 and 6CG7, which are direct drop ins for the 12AU7, except not really because it draws more current and could cause damage. I guess my question is, is there a way to know from specs or something else which tubes will work with an amp? Sorry if this is more of a general tube question then an ampsandsound question.



A very good question.  I'm in the same boat.  There are so many different tubes it's all a confusing blur.


----------



## Astral Abyss

Little Bear said:


> A very good question.  I'm in the same boat.  There are so many different tubes it's all a confusing blur.


Yes, the 5755 was only made by Ratheon.  It's not super hard to find but it does need an adapter.

Just look for 5755 to 12ax7 and you'll get several hits on eBay.


----------



## Little Bear

Astral Abyss said:


> Yes, the 5755 was only made by Ratheon.  It's not super hard to find but it does need an adapter.
> 
> Just look for 5755 to 12ax7 and you'll get several hits on eBay.



I think you meant to reply to steve468, but thanks anyway


----------



## steve468

Bhk1004, I can certainly post some tube impressions to help along those like myself that are just so overwhelmed by the myriad options out there. I'm just starting out with collecting, and so far I've mostly stuck with 12AU7 and 12AT7, because they have a big effect on the sound and seem to be way cheaper and more plentiful then 12AX7. 

I've just today put in a RCA clear top that the internet seems to think is the best 12AU7, and yeah, hard to disagree. It seems so far to be nice and clear in the top end, tight in the bottom end, with an amazing "gritty" and textured midrange, just amazing for electric guitars. A very vivid sound.

For 12AT7, my favourite so far is a Brimar 6060 "Yellow T" that has a nice, even, clean and laid back sound, with maybe a bit of a lower end exaggeration. I also picked up a GE military tube they called a JRLV12AT7WA (phew!) that has the most neutral sound and blackest background I've come across. 

I also want to mention this crazy Webcor branded 12AU7 that I took a chance on (very little info on the internet), which seems to be a Mullard from the '50s. It has a HUGE, definitely quantity over quality bass, and that textured midrange I like but multiplied by 100. It's such a unique tube compared to any others I've heard that I can only bring it out when I want extremely un-neutral sound. But man, what it does it does with maximum effort. That tube, paired with the stock JJ EL-84s to bring out the highs is my ultimate metal setup. 

I'm still looking for a setup that will brighten my generally darker headphones for acoustic and classical music. All the above can be a bit much, especially for Verite Closed, which seem to get congested with anything that is tilted too much to bass. All in my opinion of course.


----------



## Bhk1004

Got my Pendant in today. I think there have been some random reports here and there about noise on this amp scattered randomly here and there. I just wanted to report that my pendant is dead silent. I am assuming people are having wifi/grounding issue noises possibly? I have a wifi music player within 1 ft of it, and there is 0 noise. 

Anywho, just playing with it on stock tubes ATM, and it sounds pretty impressive. First tube amp, and i guess due to how neutral it is, it sounds like a SS amp.. just better and more life like? hard to explain. anyways will jump off the deep end with tube rolling tomorrow/over the weekend.


----------



## Malcolm Riverside

Bhk1004 said:


> Got my Pendant in today. I think there have been some random reports here and there about noise on this amp scattered randomly here and there. I just wanted to report that my pendant is dead silent. I am assuming people are having wifi/grounding issue noises possibly? I have a wifi music player within 1 ft of it, and there is 0 noise.
> 
> Anywho, just playing with it on stock tubes ATM, and it sounds pretty impressive. First tube amp, and i guess due to how neutral it is, it sounds like a SS amp.. just better and more life like? hard to explain. anyways will jump off the deep end with tube rolling tomorrow/over the weekend.


Have fun! And the noise issue with the Pendant definitely depends on which tap you’re using and with what headphones. I found my planars to have almost no noise from the 8 ohm output, but my ZMF’s could be a bit buzzy from the 300 ohm when music wasn’t playing. My less sensitive HD800S was pretty quiet from the same output though. 

I’d say enjoy the stock tubes for a few days before you start switching things up. They need to break in a bit and you’ll be better able to appreciate the differences nos tubes make once you’re familiar with the amp’s default sonic signature. Changes you’ll get with the Pendant are more subtle than with a lot of tube amps because of its design—which can be good or bad depending on how you look at it. I wish I still had mine! Great amp.


----------



## me2621a

Hey guys,
So I have been meaning to get around to this post. Before I begin, just be aware that this amp is currently listed for sale. The goal of this post is not to promote my sale, but to provide a review of it before I sell it as it deserves a review. Given that I own the only unit in existence, it seems like a disservice to sell it before I write something about it. 

So what are we reviewing: The Kenzie Ovation (I am not sure that is its official name but I like it and will stick with it)

I am in general I am a big fan of Ampsandsound amplifiers, I have listened to Justin’s entire line of amps in my own home and have personally owned the Mogwai SE, Bigger Ben, Leeloo, and Suolo Monos. I was also the first customer of the Suolo Monos, and I was the first customer for the Bigger Ben, which originally started out as a custom request. I said: “I want a Mogwai SE, but I want bigger output transformers and more impedance taps.” The reason I made this request was because the difference between the Suolo Monos and the Kenzie was part build quality but was also the use of 10 watt transformers vs 5 watt transformers. Now for those who have heard the Suolo Monos and a Kenzie side by side, I think they would agree the difference is night and day. This did not change the output power of the amp, but instead changed the bandwidth of the amp, making it feel more open, and larger. It also had more impact. When I requested my custom amp that would become the Bigger Ben, the idea was that a similar performance increase could be achieved with 20 watt transformers instead of the Mogwai SE’s standard 10 watt transformers. The results of the Bigger Ben speak for themselves for those who have heard that amp, it was not all transformers, but they played a big role in its performance.

A few months later, I decided to ask Justin to build me what I called the Kenzie Ovation. The Kenzie Ovation takes the Kenzie, and uses Jupiter caps like the Bigger Ben, and a special custom designed 20 watt low inductance output transformer, similar to the Bigger Ben, but optimized for the lower output tubes of the Kenzie. The Kenzie only outputs at most half a watt, 20 watt transforms are so over spec’d that in my mind they would likely vanish. When the amp was built Justin called me, and when I asked him how the amp sounded he responded in one word: “perfect”. 

When I got the amp, I set it up, and used my favorite input tube for the Kenzie (the GEC a2900 with a 12at7 to 12sl7 adapter), and plugged in my TS 1626s. The result is one of the most beautiful amplifiers I have personally heard, and when it comes to tone and texture is probably the best I have heard from Ampsandsound. Bass impact, both in quantity and detail is out of this would, and as long as you are using efficient headphones (Focal, HE1000SE, ZMF...), the impact is greater then even the Bigger Ben (I know that is hard to believe).

Treble extension leaves nothing to be desired, it is not fatiguing, and you never feel detail is missing, micro dynamics and micro detail are a step above the Bigger Ben and Suolo Monos purely due to the larger transformers and additional bandwidth. 

Justin also told me that the Kenzie Ovation is also the quietest amp that Ampsandsound has ever made. In part this is thanks to the 8 Henry choke that is used in front of the power supply, but it is also because of the space that is afforded to the amp by using the Bigger Ben sized chassis, it just gives it more room to breath.  

I found that this amp provides a presentation that is slightly warmer than a Bigger Ben. This was true with 12SL7s, 12AT7s, and 12AU7s, it also seemed less touchy when it came to 1626 output tubes, with the performance being relatively the same between my TS and Hytron tubes. Output power measured in at around 500mW which also made it the most powerful Kenzie ever built. I will also say it sounds way more powerful then that.

I also spent some time running a few 12b4a tubes with adapters and while it takes away warmth, it makes the amp both more powerful and more linear. Using this amp with 12ax7s and 12b4as was quite enjoyable, and while my Bigger Ben is my linear amp of choice, I could see enjoying the Kenzie Ovation as my only amp with both the 1626 and the 12b4a as output tube options. 

For the Ovation, Justin recommended and I agreed to have the amp come with speaker binding posts instead of the Encores Pre-Amp out. I also asked that the amp have a -5dB input switch to reduce hot sources to make the amp easier to match with incoming equipment. 

When I want to Jazz, this is the amp that I choose, and I tend to listen with the HE1000SE or my Focal Stellia. This is one of the only amps that I can use wide open with the Stellia (I use the Daves exception digital volume control and most amps when left wide open cannot be used with the Stellia due to their extreme sensitivity at 104dB/mW), and that speaks to how quiet Justin was able to make this amp, the noise floor when everything is properly grounded essencially disappears. 

I have attached the professional photos Justin took of my amp before it shipped it to me, this amp can be ordered from A&S for $4950.00 and can be built with or without onboard volume control. Some may ask, ”why are you selling it” and my answer is consolidation, I primarily now listen to music on my Hifiman Susvaras and while I love the Kenzie Ovation, it just cannot power the Susvara properly, do not get me wrong it sounds good, but the Bigger Ben is a better match for that headphone. 

As far as negatives, I think this is the ultimate expression of a Kenzie and fixes the few cons of the earlier version. This amp never sounds thin, and has the bass impact and extension that I would sometimes yearn for with the OG Kenzie and Encore, similarly its lower noise floor took away my only complaint with the Suolo Monos which wile wonderful would at times make themselves known with highly sensitive headphones when wide open or a at hight volumes. 

At its price point, the question might be asked, this or a Bigger Ben, and that is hard. They are both great amps. If you want ultimate versatility, the Bigger Ben provides that, if you work with higher efficiency headphones and want the last word in tone and texture, the Kenzie Ovation would be my vote. You can get there with a Bigger Ben, but it will cost a lot in rare tubes to get the same level of tone and texture. 

Justin has done great work for this amp. A standing ovation is in order, hence the name.


----------



## Little Bear

me2621a said:


> Hey guys,
> So I have been meaning to get around to this post. Before I begin, just be aware that this amp is currently listed for sale. The goal of this post is not to promote my sale, but to provide a review of it before I sell it as it deserves a review. Given that I own the only unit in existence, it seems like a disservice to sell it before I write something about it.
> 
> So what are we reviewing: The Kenzie Ovation (I am not sure that is its official name but I like it and will stick with it)
> ...



GLWS, that's a very nice Big Ben prototype!  Have you taken a look at the Nautilus?

My Mogwai SE w/Jupiter caps arrives tomorrow!


----------



## omniweltall

Little Bear said:


> GLWS, that's a very nice Big Ben prototype!  Have you taken a look at the Nautilus?
> 
> My Mogwai SE w/Jupiter caps arrives tomorrow!


You must be really excited.


----------



## me2621a

Little Bear said:


> GLWS, that's a very nice Big Ben prototype!  Have you taken a look at the Nautilus?
> 
> My Mogwai SE w/Jupiter caps arrives tomorrow!



Haha yah it is nice, to be clear this is not. Bigger Ben prototype, this is the Kenzie Ovation. It is a Kenzie but with iron and the build quality of a Bigger Ben. Very different amp, but also and end game.


----------



## Little Bear

me2621a said:


> Haha yah it is nice, to be clear this is not. Bigger Ben prototype, this is the Kenzie Ovation. It is a Kenzie but with iron and the build quality of a Bigger Ben. Very different amp, but also and end game.



I guess you could have called it a Bigger Kenzie, then.


----------



## Bhk1004

Malcolm Riverside said:


> Have fun! And the noise issue with the Pendant definitely depends on which tap you’re using and with what headphones. I found my planars to have almost no noise from the 8 ohm output, but my ZMF’s could be a bit buzzy from the 300 ohm when music wasn’t playing. My less sensitive HD800S was pretty quiet from the same output though.
> 
> I’d say enjoy the stock tubes for a few days before you start switching things up. They need to break in a bit and you’ll be better able to appreciate the differences nos tubes make once you’re familiar with the amp’s default sonic signature. Changes you’ll get with the Pendant are more subtle than with a lot of tube amps because of its design—which can be good or bad depending on how you look at it. I wish I still had mine! Great amp.


Yah I am black background on my lcd3, argons, eikon, and aeolus. Will keep listening and post up if anything changes. 

I guess if the changes are minimal I can save tons of money! Haha. Except what do I do with all the tubes I already purchased...


----------



## OctavianH

Anyone tried any of these amps with 600 Ohms Beyers? Any feedback? I see on the specs for each one of them as max 300 Ohms.


----------



## me2621a

OctavianH said:


> Anyone tried any of these amps with 600 Ohms Beyers? Any feedback? I see on the specs for each one of them as max 300 Ohms.



I cannot speak from experience, but I know @ampsandsound has tested these amps with 600ohm headphones and they perform well. I never run headphones off of the same impedance tap, I find that I like to run them lower. For example I run 300ohm headphones off 32 most of the time.


----------



## erics75

OctavianH said:


> Anyone tried any of these amps with 600 Ohms Beyers? Any feedback? I see on the specs for each one of them as max 300 Ohms.


I did run my 600ohm DT880 on my Pendant high Z output, and it was really nice sounding. Plenty of power, i did not even get close to noon on the volume dial. With my warm Mullard or Brimar input tubes, it was a very nice smooth sound. With my more neutral input tubes the treble was a bit harsh on my ears. But overall it was probably the best i've heard that old 880 sound! don't ask me why, though i rarely use it, i just can't part with it


----------



## me2621a

Not to sidetrack, the Kenzie Ovation finally got its official product page on A&S: https://ampsandsound.com/products/kenzie-ovation


----------



## Little Bear

Holy moly!  Picked up my Mogwai SE from Fedex today, and was expecting a fairly large cardboard box...instead I got a behemoth pelican-zilla case!  This thing is 29" x 23" x 16".  I had no idea they made these cases this big.  I haven't opened it yet.  I'm just staring at it while I finish my fish tacos.  It has handles on 3 sides, plus a telescoping handle and 2 wheels on the other side, so you can drag it around like a suitcase.  It's too big to store in the house.  Gonna have to find room in the garage for this monster.


----------



## erics75

Little Bear said:


> Holy moly!  Picked up my Mogwai SE from Fedex today, and was expecting a fairly large cardboard box...instead I got a behemoth pelican-zilla case!  This thing is 29" x 23" x 16".  I had no idea they made these cases this big.  I haven't opened it yet.  I'm just staring at it while I finish my fish tacos.  It has handles on 3 sides, plus a telescoping handle and 2 wheels on the other side, so you can drag it around like a suitcase.  It's too big to store in the house.  Gonna have to find room in the garage for this monster.


Those cases are an absolute beast to store and deal with, but so nice to have when you need them. I took my Pendant to work and kept the case there with all my tubes in it, worked out nicely. Congrats on the Mogwai! Would love to hear some impressions with your Auteur!


----------



## Little Bear

erics75 said:


> Those cases are an absolute beast to store and deal with, but so nice to have when you need them. I took my Pendant to work and kept the case there with all my tubes in it, worked out nicely. Congrats on the Mogwai! *Would love to hear some impressions with your Auteur!*



Me too!  Unfortunately I only ordered the Auteur 3 weeks ago, and the latest word is that the wait time on ZMF phones keeps getting longer.  Someone over on headphones.com just said his Verite order is currently at 3 months and he's hoping they'll ship next month.  Until they arrive, I have my HD800S to play with.


----------



## Little Bear

I was tempted to do an unboxing video, but snapped some pics instead as I peeled back the layers of the onion:


----------



## erics75

Little Bear said:


> Me too!  Unfortunately I only ordered the Auteur 3 weeks ago, and the latest word is that the wait time on ZMF phones keeps getting longer.  Someone over on headphones.com just said his Verite order is currently at 3 months and he's hoping they'll ship next month.  Until they arrive, I have my HD800S to play with.


I know the pain of the wait, took about 3 months for my VC. At least you have that awesome new amp to keep you occupied!


----------



## 55Powers

Really nice one @Little Bear !

So you went with the Bendix straight out of the gates we see, badass.

How are you liking it?


----------



## Little Bear

55Powers said:


> Really nice one @Little Bear !
> 
> So you went with the Bendix straight out of the gates we see, badass.
> 
> How are you liking it?



Yeah, Justin supplied it with NOS Bendix 6384's, a TS 6SL7 and an EH 5u4gb.  I also have a pair of Mullard EL34's to play with.

Unfortunately I haven't had a chance to listen to it yet, but hopefully tonight.  So far I like looking at it, LOL.


----------



## 55Powers

Little Bear said:


> Yeah, Justin supplied it with NOS Bendix 6384's, a TS 6SL7 and an EH 5u4gb.  I also have a pair of Mullard EL34's to play with.
> 
> Unfortunately I haven't had a chance to listen to it yet, but hopefully tonight.  So far I like looking at it, LOL.



Heavy dicipline, respect. Let's hope for tonight, make sure to post some goodies for us if you do.


----------



## whirlwind

Little Bear said:


> I was tempted to do an unboxing video, but snapped some pics instead as I peeled back the layers of the onion:



Congrats on the killer amp.

 That case may take up some room to store, but that is a great way to ship an amp,,you feel like it will arrive safely.


----------



## Little Bear

whirlwind said:


> Congrats on the killer amp.
> 
> That case may take up some room to store, but that is a great way to ship an amp,,you feel like it will arrive safely.



I think it could have survived the luggage gorilla!


----------



## Little Bear (Jul 26, 2020)

55Powers said:


> Heavy dicipline, respect. Let's hope for tonight, make sure to post some goodies for us if you do.



Okay, here are some goodies.  For my first listen I decided on Pink Floyd's Animals album.  To establish a point of reference, I first listened all the way through on my GS-X Mini, then again on the Mogwai SE.  The only headphones I have at the moment are the Sennheiser HD800S, so that's what I used.  This is just a seat of the pants impression on a brand new amp with new tubes, and no burn-in time. 

The Mogwai SE sounds terrific (no surprise there, right?).  It gives up a little in treble clarity and detail to the Mini, but it has more bass energy, punch, and dynamics.  There's more weight from the bass through the midrange.  It just sounds warmer and fuller.  The midrange is more forward.  The bass is not quite as articulate as on the Mini, but sounds more extended and has more slam.  So in general, compared to the Mini, which is very transparent and neutral, the Mogwai SE has a warmer and more dynamic presentation.  Soundstage and imaging were about the same.  Both amps provided a very enjoyable listen, but the Mogwai and its tube complement need many more hours of use before I can form any solid impressions.  In fact, all my components do.  The Mini, HD800S and Mogwai all are brand new.  The HD800S and Mini have less than 8 hours on them so far, so everything needs some burn-in time.

I should also mention that I only used the 32-ohm tap on the Mogwai.  I suspect the sound would change slightly using the 8 or 300 ohm tap, but I'll have to experiement a little.

The Mogwai was dead silent even with the volume control at full, with no music playing.  And this was with my wifi router 8 feet away.


----------



## 55Powers

Little Bear said:


> Okay, here are some goodies.  For my first listen I decided on Pink Floyd's Animals album.  To establish a point of reference, I first listened all the way through on my GS-X Mini, then again on the Mogwai SE.  The only headphones I have at the moment are the Sennheiser HD800S, so that's what I used.  This is just a seat of the pants impression on a brand new amp with new tubes, and no burn-in time.
> 
> The Mogwai SE sounds terrific (no surprise there, right?).  It gives up a little in treble clarity and detail to the Mini, but it has more bass energy, punch, and dynamics.  There's more weight from the bass through the midrange.  It just sounds warmer and fuller.  The midrange is more forward.  The bass is not quite as articulate as on the Mini, but sounds more extended and has more slam.  So in general, compared to the Mini, which is very transparent and neutral, the Mogwai SE has a warmer and more dynamic presentation.  Soundstage and imaging were about the same.  Both amps provided a very enjoyable listen, but the Mogwai and its tube complement need many more hours of use before I can form any solid impressions.  In fact, all my components do.  The Mini, HD800S and Mogwai all are brand new.  The HD800S and Mini have less than 8 hours on them so far, so everything needs some burn-in time.
> 
> ...



So many options on it. Took me a great deal of time to get to know mine properly.

Speaking og which, i kinda wanna try the Bendix  @me2621a did you run those ever?

I am an 8ohm man myself, but i know there are plenty who like the 32.


----------



## me2621a

55Powers said:


> So many options on it. Took me a great deal of time to get to know mine properly.
> 
> Speaking og which, i kinda wanna try the Bendix  @me2621a did you run those ever?
> 
> I am an 8ohm man myself, but i know there are plenty who like the 32.



I have, the 6384 is probably my second favorite output tube. It has great power, nice bass, clean smooth highs, and a nice mid-range. It is everything that a really good RCA 6l6GC is, but with more detail (the RCA is romantic but not detailed), more bass, and more punch. I own 4 NOS RCA black plate 6l6gcs and my preference is to run the Bendix. 

Funny thing, I am about to be Justin’s first Nautilus customer, it arrives on Wednesday. I found out after I had already sold my Bigger Ben that the 6384s are likely not compatible with it (the Nautilus runs tubes about 20% hotter which looks like it moves the goal post just beyond them). With that being said, I have 6 pairs of brand new in box marched 6384s (not oh I ran these for a few months and call them new, litterally brand new, ran for an hour each to de-gas, measure, and match and put back in boxes), and an additional 2 pairs of sounds great but used 6384s. I will likely list them soon but feel free to PM me if anyone wants them. 

Justin and I both agree that one of the best tube combos we have heard in the Mogwai SE is the RCA 5691, Bendix 6384, and the Tung-sol 5u4gb (dirt cheap rectifier, but works perfectly in this combo). I sold my 5u4gb already, but I also have a stash of 5691s that I will list soon as well (moving to 9 pins as I know longer have a 6SL7 amp).


In all seriousness though, the 6384 is a great output tube. My list of favorite NOS tubes in the Mogwai SE goes: GEC KT88, Bendix 6384, TS 6550, Mullard EL34 XF2, RCA 6l6gc, GEC KT77, RFT EL34, GE 6l6gc


----------



## 55Powers

me2621a said:


> Funny thing, I am about to be Justin’s first Nautilus customer, it arrives on Wednesday.



Haha, why am i not surprised. 

That one looks sooo sleeek, looking forward to some hot posts on it.


----------



## me2621a

Hey guys,
So, earlier this week I took delivery of the Nautilus. It is quite the amp to behold, with the shipping container wieghing in at 98 pounds, my wife had to help me carry it up to our condo. 

First things first, the pictures do no do the amp justice. I love the look and build quality of the classic ampsandsound amps, but the new rolled steel chassis is really quite something. The amp itself is a bit quieter in my opinion then the Bigger Ben and my previous Mogwai SE. Even with a 12AX7 and KT88s it was silent with a pair of ZMF Verite closed on the 8 ohm tap, and nearly silent on the 32 ohm tap (this is with the volume wide open). 

So how does the amp sound? In a word, perfect. It brings the power of the Mogwai SE and the Bigger Ben with the tone and texture of the Kenzie Ovation, which is why both my Bigger Ben and Kenzie Ovation have found new homes. For those who do not know, I have always loved the sound of the Kenzie/Suolo amps. There is something they do in the midrange that is just right. While the Bigger Ben and the Mogwai SE get close, they cannot reproduce that tone and texture. Now of course the Kenzie/Suolo designs cannot get anywhere near the power of the Bigger Ben and the Mogwai SE, which for my Susvara is a problem. What the Nautilus does, is it is able to reproduce the magic of the Kenzie/Suolo at the power output and linearity of the Bigger Ben/Mogwai SE, this in and of itself justified the amps price. 

To be clear this amp sounds bigger then the Bigger Ben/Mogwai SE, and it is as it runs the tubes harder. It is a similar to the step up from a Mogwai SE to a Bigger Ben. You end up with more detail, smooth top end, and a bit more bass. 

A much more detailed review will come as me and this amp spend more time together but I continue to enjoy this amp more and more with every passing hour. It is also fun to re-explore my NOS tube collection and see what matches well with this bad boy. 

Are there cons so far? It is huge, and it draws more power, and because it runs the tubes hotter, it is sadly not compatible with my collection of 6384s (still have a NIB pair and two used tests well pair if anyone wants them), and I find myself spending more time listening which at time frustrates my wife . 

I think Justin has really outdone himself on this amp. Its price is high, but its performance matches based on what I have heard. I think I may have finally found my end game amplifier, and that is as big of a compliment as I can give. More to come soon.


----------



## parmiep

I'm in the process of getting a Pendant to go with my Rad-0 and Verite Closed. I wasn't able to find a tube rolling thread for the Pendant specifically, so I was curious to hear what tubes people have been using and liking with the amp so far? On hand I have:

GE Ken Rad silver-black long plate 12AX7
White shield 1960 Mullard 12AX7
Raytheon black plate 12AX7
NOS RFT 12AX7
NOS RFT 12AU7
Set of Mullard O Getter EL84s
Set of GE 1979 grey plate EL84s
NOS RFT EZ80
Amperex Bugle Boy EZ81
Telefunken (Mullard Blackburn made) EZ81

Anything call out to anyone specifically for the Pendant?


----------



## Little Bear

me2621a said:


> Hey guys,
> So, earlier this week I took delivery of the Nautilus. It is quite the amp to behold, with the shipping container wieghing in at 98 pounds, my wife had to help me carry it up to our condo.
> 
> First things first, the pictures do no do the amp justice. I love the look and build quality of the classic ampsandsound amps, but the new rolled steel chassis is really quite something. The amp itself is a bit quieter in my opinion then the Bigger Ben and my previous Mogwai SE. Even with a 12AX7 and KT88s it was silent with a pair of ZMF Verite closed on the 8 ohm tap, and nearly silent on the 32 ohm tap (this is with the volume wide open).
> ...



Still waiting on those pics!  Bet she's a beauty.


----------



## nwavesailor

I have had my Pendant for a few weeks and have several of the tubes you have listed @parmiep .

OEM JJ
Amperex EZ81
RFT EZ81
Tesla EZ81
Tele EZ81 (both the Mullard Blackburn and German made)

EL84:
OEM JJ
1970's Siemens branded Tungsram
Current production Tung Sol 7189
1980's Reflector 6P14P-ER
Telefunken (in route)

I have many 12AU7 (+ 7316, 7728) and 12AT7 (+ 6201, 7730, B309) and no 12AX7.

There are so many really nice sounding combinations that I am finding that I need to slow down and take more notes! There are also some that are a bit quieter than others. With some, I have a  very low level of hum. I sometime only notice it when I remove the hp from the amp and it is then dead quiet. VERY low level and not a concern at all in a tube amp.

I am finding I am using the Telefunken EZ-81 rectifiers (German or UK production) more than the RFT, Tesla, Amperex or JJ. Not a huge difference, just seem to keep go back to either of the Tele's.

I currently have the Tele EZ81 (German) with a Valvo 6201 (Hamburg) and Reflector 6P14P-ER and I 'think' the 6P14P may have a bit more bass than some of the other EL84's. I was using the Tungsram EL84 for a few days before switching and these were nice as well with the Valvo and Tele.


----------



## parmiep

nwavesailor said:


> I have had my Pendant for a few weeks and have several of the tubes you have listed @parmiep .
> 
> OEM JJ
> Amperex EZ81
> ...



I appreciate the thorough write up! Definitely excited to play with the various EL84 and EZ80s coming to compare with your findings. I'm curious to try a pair of those 6P14, as it seems like those come up a fair bit as a good value and strong performing tube. 

What has been your favorite 12AU7/12AT7 so far?

For anyone else, does someone have experience with Mazda 12AX7 or 5751 tubes with the Pendant?


----------



## Little Bear

I've decided to try a 6L6GC in my Mogwai SE.  Anyone know of a good one?


----------



## ampsandsound

I’m very fond of the tunsol 6l6gc str and the jj 6ca7


----------



## me2621a

Little Bear said:


> I've decided to try a 6L6GC in my Mogwai SE.  Anyone know of a good one?


As Justin said, new stock those are great. If you want to go NOS, the Bendix 6384 is awesome and RCA black plates are good as well, though a little pricy for what they are. the GE 6L6GC is also pretty decent.


----------



## Little Bear

Thanks.  I knew Justin liked the T-S STR's, so I ordered a "reissue" pair.


----------



## Dipesh




----------



## Dipesh

I am floored. Jaw wide open and goosebumps. Ampsandsound Nautalis with Susvara is something special. Clarity/ detail is insane. Bass you can feel inside your heart. It is a Dynamic and Transparent while being romantic (Credit to me2621a). Nautalis is built like a tank. With my setup amp is pitch black. I will be writing a full review in coming week.
Justin from ampsandsound - Take a bow. Justin from ampersandsound and Zach/Bevin from ZMF are the nicest people I have talked with. 
P.S - me2621a - thank you for a great deal on Susvara and answering millions of question.


----------



## me2621a

Dipesh said:


> I am floored. Jaw wide open and goosebumps. Ampsandsound Nautalis with Susvara is something special. Clarity/ detail is insane. Bass you can feel inside your heart. It is a Dynamic and Transparent while being romantic (Credit to me2621a). Nautalis is built like a tank. With my setup amp is pitch black. I will be writing a full review in coming week.
> Justin from ampsandsound - Take a bow. Justin from ampersandsound and Zach/Bevin from ZMF are the nicest people I have talked with.
> P.S - me2621a - thank you for a great deal on Susvara and answering millions of question.



Happy you are happy, and welcome to the Nautalis/Susvara club, its a good place to be. Dipesh’ s description is spot on, it is transparent and dynamic but maintains the romantic and delicate nature of lower powered amps like the A&S Kenzie Ovation. While the Susvara is in my opinion the best headphone out there (it better be for its price), I will say that the amp is awesome with the Verite Closed and the HE1000SE as well and it is quiet enough to use them on the 32 ohm tap without any issues. 

For those who are thinking about the next step up from a Mogwai SE or a Kenzie Encore the decision will come down to spending power. The Nautalis takes all the best attributes from the Bigger Ben and Kenzie Ovation and combines together and for that reason is worth the price. However for those who cannot justify or make the Nautalis work due to its price, choosing between the Bigger Ben and the Ovation comes down to the type of headphone. If you want to something that will work with every headphone in existence, the Bigger Ben is the right choice as it gives you the power to run the Susvara and the Abyss 1266 but it is quiet enough to run the Focal Utopia. However if you are staying north of 90db efficiency, the Ovation is the way to go as it brings the refinement that you will find in the Nautalis.


----------



## Little Bear

I think the Nautilus would look better with a walnut base, but it's an impressive beast.


----------



## ampsandsound

I do love great wood work.  The sheer weight of the amp would have been difficult to support.


----------



## Dipesh

It is built like a tank .😁😁


----------



## nwavesailor

I have to say that since getting my ZMF Pendant and the tubes I like dialed in, I have not used the SS section of my TT2.......... at ALL!
I can't imagine how the other offerings from ampsandsound must sound if the Pendant amp sounds this good.


----------



## Dipesh

It is by far the best combination I have heard .


----------



## me2621a

nwavesailor said:


> I have to say that since getting my ZMF Pendant and the tubes I like dialed in, I have not used the SS section of my TT2.......... at ALL!
> I can't imagine how the other offerings from ampsandsound must sound if the Pendant amp sounds this good.



I think it depends on what you like about the Pendent. I found the Leeloo (Solid state rectified pendent) very smooth. My understanding is that this is due in part to little bit of feedback used in that amp design. I personally prefer a more raw sound, which is what you get with all of A&S’s other headphone amps because they are all 0 feedback. Raw of course does not mean harsh but to me it’s the difference between watching a moving with motion smoothing on vs watching it at 24 frames per second. Some people like one vs the other. In general though as you climb through the A&S lineup you will find a consistent performance increase in dynamics, spacial detail, and tone.


----------



## ampsandsound (Sep 16, 2020)

Nautilus as a stereo amp is so much heavier than the Zion speaker monos individually.
The Nautilus is ~ 98lbs packed... kinda hurts to move ... Theft proof.


----------



## Rah47 (Sep 19, 2020)

I'm hoping someone can help me out with an issue I am having with the ampsandsound XLR-RCA input transformer I am using with my Suolo monos.  I discovered that I am getting a buzzing sound when I have the input transformer in my signal chain between my RME ADI-2 DAC and the Suolos, which feed my Utopias and LCD-2s.  In addition to the buzzing, with the volume turned all the way up I can also hear at a low level some kind of radio broadcast/transmission.

I've had the input transformer for about 6 weeks, having purchased it from another Head-Fi-er.  Recently I noticed that in between tracks I could hear a faint rustling sound coming from the Utopias, which are more sensitive, especially.  When I turned the volume pots all the way up the sound increased -- a kind of rhythmic succession of hiss, pin pricks of sound, and stray radio transmissions.  To my surprise the sound increased drastically when I turned OFF the DAC and my streamer (an ultraRendu-Uptone 1.2 LPS combo) and the Suolos were the only thing running.  When I unplugged the RCA cable between the input transformer and the Suolos, however, the sound completely went away.  After unplugging various cables in my system in various combinations, I discovered that whatever is going on is directly related to the input transformer.  Even with the DAC power main unplugged and unplugging the XLR the connection between the DAC and the input transformer I still get the electrical interference as long as the input transformer-RCA-Suolo connection is maintained.  However the sound gets even louder when the XLR is plugged into both the unplugged DAC and the input transformer.  Since I believe cables themselves can act as antenna, I tried swapping in a different set of RCA cables with the same result.  So whatever is going on seems to be directly related to interference coming from the input transformer itself, interference that persists even if there is no signal running through the transformer and its connection to the DAC is completely removed.  Is this just a product of my bad luck in living somewhere with high levels of RF interference that is being captured by the transformer or is something amiss with the transformer itself?  FWIW, the issue persists even when I unplug my router and modem, which are in a different room.  I have no fluorescent lights and it happens regardless of the time of day (tried it this Saturday morning at 6:30am and it was just as problematic as late afternoon on Friday).  As I said, the Suolos themselves, with their ample transformers, are silent when uncoupled from the input transformer so it's not clear to me why the input transformer would be especially vulnerable or why the sound is so much worse when no signal is passing through it.  Any thoughts from you wiser in the ways of electrical engineering would be appreciated mightily.  None of this is super noticeable when I am listening and the volume is kept to a sane level, but given that I was expecting the input transformer to give me an improved signal to feed the Suolos it's a bit distressing to discover the added noise is present, and I'd love to have some clue of what's going on. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Rah47

Just as a follow-up to my post about my input transformer and the interference I've been experiencing, I heard from someone else who has used the input transformer with sensitive headphones in a city environment that the ambient RFI of city life can cause issues, and so a move to country may be in order for me.  Which is fine, since, as of late, life in neighboring Vermont has started to take on increasing appeal for me anyway.   

As I said, the interference isn't terribly noticeable at reasonable listening levels, so now I just need to decide if the fact it is there at all is  annoying enough either conceptually or perceptually for me to remove the input transformer from my system altogether.  Which means I guess it's back to some dreaded A/B listening sessions.  I know some of y'all enjoy that sort of thing, but as a person who has some degree of OCD, that's NOT conducive to a relaxing evening!   Yow, as much as I love this hobby, sometimes I really hate this hobby. . . First world problems, sigh. . . Life is good when this is the kind of thing that gets your goat, right?


----------



## Traiguen

Hi, anybody interested in a beautiful AmpsandSound Leeloo Stereo????


----------



## Strayngs

I freaking love ampsandsound. I have 2 very competent amps but always watching the classifieds for one,


----------



## Traiguen

Strayngs said:


> I freaking love ampsandsound. I have 2 very competent amps but always watching the classifieds for one,


Yeap, I bought a Mogwai SE.... so, now I need to pay for it.... so my Leeloo Stereo is up for same.  I am asking $1,100 + shipping.


----------



## Dipesh (Sep 21, 2020)

To be honest I am not a reviewer. I do not go down the path of measurements. I trust my ears. I listen to what I love.  About 4-5 months ago , I decided to upgrade my Mogwai SE. It was a beautiful versatile powerhouse. Before Mogwai I owned ZMF pendant and before that woo audio amps.
After debating for about 5 minutes I decided to invest into Nautilus. Justin s insta feed showed his hard work and meticulous build.
Justin is probably one of the nicest person I have met in audiophile scene. Extremely cordial and helpful.
When the amp arrived , I was blown away by it's weight. Fully packaged the amp is around 95 lbs. Amp by itself is around 65 lbs. It is built like a tank like a M...F...Tank.
The design speaks to my aesthestics. Bold chrome hiding the beefy transformers reflects the mesmerizing glow from the tube. Slightly rounded corners provide an elegant tactile feeling. The only change I will probably make will be to placement of the logo . I ordered a self adhesive custom chrome lettering. I am super excited about them.
Beside that tiny issue amp is gorgeous.(see pics).

Amp is pitch black , No hum , no buzz , no crackle .I am using deep core ' s power conditioner which justin provided.The Nautilus allows for a wide range of tubes, including 6l6gc through KT90s, 6L6GC STR or KT88, a single 12AX7, and two 5AR4 or 5U4 rectifiers.(from ampsandsound website)

As I commented before Naulilus is transparent and dynamic but maintains the romantic and delicate nature.Clarity/ detail is insane. Bass you can feel inside your heart. Provided incredible detail , layered and textured sound. I love the tone and delicacy I get with different tubes. This Amp is a seducer and I quickly became very addicted. (I have Focal trio 11be for home listening. I actually miss my office setup on weekend when I am home.)  I found it hard to stop listening.I could listen to this amp for hours without fatigue regardless of music. It was always so smooth and pulled me into the music. Pulled me into the stage, into the studio. With my eyes closed I forgot I had any audio gears. The only reminder was the warmth of the tubes. Nautilis is extremely  dynamic and powerful,  easily drove my susvara. Music is put forward with authority , finesse and heavenly harmonic texture.With Susvara on Nautilis I can touch the instruments , I can feel every kick drum. I can feel the singers breath, I can feel the room. All of that at the same time 😁. Other Amps did not provide the level of musicality that Nautilus did . I am running Nautilus fully open.I will be trying ZMF VC in few months. Abyss TC ' fit was odd and uncomfortable.

Final word: ENDGAME

SONG  :
Hard Time Killing Floor - Buddy Guy
Tool - Entire Discography
Maximum the Hormone
River - Bishop Briggs
Tand Alla Ljus - Silvana Lmam
O Death - Ralph Stanley
wayfaring strange
Magic Sword
Muse
Little submarine - The Black Keys
Many many many more...too many to list.
P.S - Metal fans should give maximum the Hormone a listen.


----------



## Dipesh

What is up with audio science review  forum. Loads of assholes who like linear sound? or just assholes in general


----------



## ampsandsound

Dipesh,

ASR isn't interested in subjective assessments... they like all things measured as I understand it. 
Additionally, I don't think they are fans of tubes. Sorry you got flamed. Im supper pleased you're enjoying the amp, it represents several years of development and is our finest work.
The nautilus and all ampsandsound amps are decidedly old school and antiquated from a technology standpoint. 
To my ears, tubes do it better and I like amps I can repair with a volt meter and an account form Mouser or Digikey. Many SS technologies continue to develop at breakneck speeds, its has been a historic issue servicing SS components as parts have planed obsolesce. 
There are many paths and technologies with supporters and detracts alike... sorry they left a bad impression. Given your love of tubes, I don't think you will find them supportive.


----------



## me2621a

Hey guys,
I know we are a headphone loving group but I did want to share something kinda fun, yet maybe a bit off topic. As all of us know in this thread Justin builds incredible headphone amps. Having had the privalage to listen to and own pretty much his entire line (except the Casablanca and the Zion) I can say when it comes to amps he constantly over delivers. However today I want to briefly talk about something that many of us may not know about, which is that Justin also builds horn loaded speakers, both big and small. 

For a long time, Justin has suggested that I should try a set of horns with his amps, espacially with the Nautilus. Now I have great speakers (Anthony Gallo Ref 3.1s), however they are far to inefficient and the wrong load for the the Nautilus and I have limited space so I kept say “eh one day”. However with the pandemic, and finding myself spending more and more time at home I decided to look into a set of horn speakers that I could pair with his amps when I wanted to. Given that I have never owned them before, I thought to myself why not try the Klipche Heresy IVs, they are smaller, I can put them in the corner of my room, and bring them out when I want to listen. So I got a pair from a local dealer to demo, and I learned three things. The first, is Justin’s amps are excellent headphone amps, but they are probably one of the best speaker amps I have ever heard. The second is that I like the sound of horn speakers. Finally the third was that the Heresy IVs were still to big and to heavy for me to move every time I wanted to listen to them. 

When Justin and I caught up, he offered to send me a pair of his Figure 8s, these are his custom built horn loaded monitors, 8 inch woofer, and an 8 inch conical horn. His promise was at least as good if not better performance then the Heresy IV, in a package that is about half the size (18Tx14Dx10W) and much lighter. They arrived on Friday and I have been listening to them non stop since then. Here are a few thoughts:

Finish: The black finish is beautiful, just as good as any satin black finish you can get from the big name manufacturers. 

Performance: One thing that concerned me was that these are 92db efficient speakers, and most things I have read say if you have 8 watts, you need 98+dB efficient speakers. I can tell you right now that these are dynamic and awesome off the Nautilus, and Justin actually drives these with a Kenzie. Switching more specifically to the speakers performance. These monitors deliver deeper and more powerful bass then the Heresy IVs even when placed out into the room. You can feel it in your chest, and for me that is the biggest surprise. They go down to about 35hz and while that is not quite full range, I feel no need to add a subwoofer. When I had the Heresy IV in house, I really liked the presentation except when I didn’t. To be more specific, at times the Heresy IV sounded like someone was shouting through a horn, especially with certain octaves in the midrange. The Figure 8s never have that effect, they do provide a forward and engaging presentation, but they are always controlled. Female vocals sound especially great, and everything from Liz Fair to the Gorillaz sound real and engaging. 

Initial Conclusion: I still have more time that I need to spend with these, but I can that these were one of the best deals I have ever gotten in audio. They sound great, look great, and reasonably sized, and perform really well with the A&S amps. If any of you are thinking about trying speakers with your A&S amps, be sure to ask Justin about what he has, I think you will be really surprised. Of course, here is a pic of my temporary setup, even with this sub-optimal placement, they simply wow.


----------



## ampsandsound

Super kind words. 
I love building speakers but only built 1-2 a year due to all the labor involved.


----------



## Traiguen

Little Bear said:


> Okay, here are some goodies.  For my first listen I decided on Pink Floyd's Animals album.  To establish a point of reference, I first listened all the way through on my GS-X Mini, then again on the Mogwai SE.  The only headphones I have at the moment are the Sennheiser HD800S, so that's what I used.  This is just a seat of the pants impression on a brand new amp with new tubes, and no burn-in time.
> 
> The Mogwai SE sounds terrific (no surprise there, right?).  It gives up a little in treble clarity and detail to the Mini, but it has more bass energy, punch, and dynamics.  There's more weight from the bass through the midrange.  It just sounds warmer and fuller.  The midrange is more forward.  The bass is not quite as articulate as on the Mini, but sounds more extended and has more slam.  So in general, compared to the Mini, which is very transparent and neutral, the Mogwai SE has a warmer and more dynamic presentation.  Soundstage and imaging were about the same.  Both amps provided a very enjoyable listen, but the Mogwai and its tube complement need many more hours of use before I can form any solid impressions.  In fact, all my components do.  The Mini, HD800S and Mogwai all are brand new.  The HD800S and Mini have less than 8 hours on them so far, so everything needs some burn-in time.
> 
> ...


I am waiting on my Mogwai SE also with Juniper caps and I have the GSX-Mini as well.... Funny coincidence!


----------



## Little Bear

Traiguen said:


> I am waiting on my Mogwai SE also with Juniper caps and I have the GSX-Mini as well.... Funny coincidence!



Well you have excellent taste then    The Mogwai SE is easily my favorite piece of gear.  And tomorrow, Fedex will be delivering my  new ZMF Auteur so the Mogwai will have another playmate.


----------



## tholt

I have a Mogwai SE that I use with my Abyss 1266 Phi CC. These planars are not very sensitive and love power, and the SE does a good job with them. I use KT88 power tubes and connect directly to the speaker posts for max power. 

I recently acquired Sony MDR-Z1R, which are considerably more sensitive than the Abyss. The issue I have is now is very little play with the volume knob before it gets too loud, i.e. too much gain. I assumed using either the low or high z outputs would lessen the gain, but surprisingly not really. I'm only able to turn the volume knob about 1/4 turn before it gets too loud, regardless of which output I use.

Any suggestions on how to lessen the gain? Should I be using less powerful power tubes? And also curious why I hear so little difference (sonically and gain-wise) between the different outputs?


----------



## omniweltall

tholt said:


> I have a Mogwai SE that I use with my Abyss 1266 Phi CC. These planars are not very sensitive and love power, and the SE does a good job with them. I use KT88 power tubes and connect directly to the speaker posts for max power.
> 
> I recently acquired Sony MDR-Z1R, which are considerably more sensitive than the Abyss. The issue I have is now is very little play with the volume knob before it gets too loud, i.e. too much gain. I assumed using either the low or high z outputs would lessen the gain, but surprisingly not really. I'm only able to turn the volume knob about 1/4 turn before it gets too loud, regardless of which output I use.
> 
> Any suggestions on how to lessen the gain? Should I be using less powerful power tubes? And also curious why I hear so little difference (sonically and gain-wise) between the different outputs?


You can use a passive pre-amp, like the Sys.


----------



## ampsandsound

I can give a ton of options later tonight.  Not infront of my computer but will type it out tonight. 
inshort look at how hot your input source is. Look at using 5u4 rectifier. Also might try other taps. The Sony will likely pair better on the 32ohm tapp. One of the nice aspects of the Mogwai se is tube rolling. May not be helpful for changing between headphones within a istening session but changing to 6l6gc tubes will increase your sweep of the volume pot as the power will be halved.


----------



## tholt

omniweltall said:


> You can use a passive pre-amp, like the Sys.


I really don't want to introduce anything else. Rather stick with just the Mogwai if I can.



ampsandsound said:


> I can give a ton of options later tonight.  Not infront of my computer but will type it out tonight.
> inshort look at how hot your input source is. Look at using 5u4 rectifier. Also might try other taps. The Sony will likely pair better on the 32ohm tapp. One of the nice aspects of the Mogwai se is tube rolling. May not be helpful for changing between headphones within a istening session but changing to 6l6gc tubes will increase your sweep of the volume pot as the power will be halved.


Awesome, thanks!


----------



## ampsandsound

Feel free to give me a call as time allows. But here are thoughts. 
The Mogwai SE doesn't use switched in resistors to attenuate input signal, just the volume pot. 
Selection of output and rectifier tubes was thought behind best system matching.
You can scale upto max power with a plug in SS rectifier and KT90s.Kt88s (KT90s sound like crap).
Our you can shrink it to least power with 6l6gc and 5u4 reciters. 
I personally love the sound of Tungsol 606gc str and Russian coke bottle 5u4s. 
As a quick aside, if you have a Mogwai SE later revision with the 8ohm tap, you have the same power output as the binding posts. 
You might want to look at your dacs output... some are selectable re voltage out. 
Parts express sells RCA input attenuators... $25 for a pair. Harrison Labs 12 dB RCA Line Level Audio Attenuator Pair. 
Additionally... not that I love these choices but people do it and it works... run a 6SN7 or get a 12AX7 to 6SL7 adapter on eBay... try the 12AU7s.... They are less musical to me but are less microphonic too.


----------



## tholt

ampsandsound said:


> Feel free to give me a call as time allows. But here are thoughts.
> The Mogwai SE doesn't use switched in resistors to attenuate input signal, just the volume pot.
> Selection of output and rectifier tubes was thought behind best system matching.
> You can scale upto max power with a plug in SS rectifier and KT90s.Kt88s (KT90s sound like crap).
> ...



Hi Justin, these are awesome insights, thank you. I might just give you a ring. 

Good to know about how the Mogwai works regarding attenuation. FYI my Mogwai has Low and High Z outputs toward the front and an 8 ohm output next to the binding posts.

I checked my DAC, it doesn't have adjustable voltage, aside from using RCA or XLR out. I use RCA, so I assume that's the lowest voltage out I can get.

Sounds like I need to do some tube rolling for less power. I'll look at those Tung Sol 6L6GCs. How do you feel about Psvane EL34 or new Tungs Sol KT66?


----------



## ampsandsound

Hi kt66 are Great. 
must tungsol a are really lovely too. 
move had psvane kt88 and didn’t love.


----------



## Little Bear

ampsandsound said:


> Additionally... not that I love these choices but people do it and it works... *run a 6SN7 *or get a 12AX7 to 6SL7 adapter on eBay... try the 12AU7s.... They are less musical to me but are less microphonic too.



I hadn't thought of that...a 6SN7 is a direct sub for a 6SL7, no adapter needed.  This is good news, as I have a great NOS Sylvania 6SN7 "Bad Boy" on the way that I bought for my Bottlehead Crackatwoa OTL.  I'll have to try it in the Mogwai SE too.


----------



## xiorath (Oct 11, 2020)

So I got my hands on a Leeloo Stereo the other week currently matched with a pair of HD800S while waiting on some ZMF Verite open backs. Definitely loving it as I'm coming from a Liquid Platinum amp and this is my first dive into the higher end amps... Pure black backgrounds with both sets of tubes I currently have for it and love the synergy with the HD800S so far.

I am quite curious if anyone had some recommended tube sets that people are enjoying when matched with the ZMF Verite? (From my understanding this amp was a prototype of the Pendant, but with a solid state rec)


----------



## nwavesailor (Oct 11, 2020)

xiorath said:


> So I got my hands on a Leeloo Stereo the other week currently matched with a pair of HD800S while waiting on some ZMF Verite open backs. Definitely loving it as I'm coming from a Liquid Platinum amp and this is my first dive into the higher end amps... Pure black backgrounds with both sets of tubes I currently have for it and love the synergy with the HD800S so far.
> 
> I am quite curious if anyone had some recommended tube sets that people are enjoying when matched with the ZMF Verite? (From my understanding this amp was a prototype of the Pendant, but with a solid state rec)



With my Pendant and VO I have settled to some degree on a Telefunken EZ81 rectifier, 1973 Tungsram EL84's (branded Siemens) and various 6201 and 7730 (12AT7).


----------



## ampsandsound

Tried the raal sr1a today... super impressive headphone. Wasnt sure we'd be able to power it as it wants 100watts, but got to normal listening at 75% vol crazy impressive.


----------



## Virion

ampsandsound said:


> Tried the raal sr1a today... super impressive headphone. Wasnt sure we'd be able to power it as it wants 100watts, but got to normal listening at 75% vol crazy impressive.


Which amp were you using?


----------



## ampsandsound

Nautilus is the picture.


----------



## Traiguen

Little Bear said:


> Well you have excellent taste then    The Mogwai SE is easily my favorite piece of gear.  And tomorrow, Fedex will be delivering my  new ZMF Auteur so the Mogwai will have another playmate.


Little Bear, have you done A/B comparisons with the GSX?  Which tubes do you have on the Mogwai SE?


----------



## Little Bear (Oct 21, 2020)

Traiguen said:


> Little Bear, have you done A/B comparisons with the GSX?  Which tubes do you have on the Mogwai SE?



I did a quick and dirty comparison back in post #438 here https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ampsandsound-aka-amps-sound.802346/page-30#post-15763248

I'm running NOS Bendix 6384's for power, Tung Sol 6SL7GT for input, and a new production Electroharmonix 5U4GBEH in the rectifier socket.  I have  a number of other tubes to try, but I'm loving the current setup so much that I can't get myself to change anything  

Oh, and I feel guilty about this, but I haven't listened to the GS-X Mini since July when I received the Mogwai SE.  It pains me because the Mini is a _really _good SS amp.  I've just become a card-carrying tube convert.  Now I only use the Mini for late night movie watching.


----------



## nwavesailor

Oh, and I feel guilty about this, but I haven't listened to the GS-X Mini since July when I received the Mogwai SE.  It pains me because the Mini is a _really _good SS amp.  I've just become a card-carrying tube convert.  Now I only use the Mini for late night movie watching.
[/QUOTE]

_I agree with you as I also had a mini for some time. I then bought a TT2 and the ss amp section of that is very good but I find I use it for the DAC section and listen to the Pendant amp most of the time!_


----------



## hardinge

Rah47 said:


> Just as a follow-up to my post about my input transformer and the interference I've been experiencing, I heard from someone else who has used the input transformer with sensitive headphones in a city environment that the ambient RFI of city life can cause issues, and so a move to country may be in order for me.  Which is fine, since, as of late, life in neighboring Vermont has started to take on increasing appeal for me anyway.
> 
> As I said, the interference isn't terribly noticeable at reasonable listening levels, so now I just need to decide if the fact it is there at all is  annoying enough either conceptually or perceptually for me to remove the input transformer from my system altogether.  Which means I guess it's back to some dreaded A/B listening sessions.  I know some of y'all enjoy that sort of thing, but as a person who has some degree of OCD, that's NOT conducive to a relaxing evening!   Yow, as much as I love this hobby, sometimes I really hate this hobby. . . First world problems, sigh. . . Life is good when this is the kind of thing that gets your goat, right?


Did you find a solution? I may have similar issues.


----------



## ampsandsound

I’m pretty sure the input transformers arnt interacting with RFI/WFI but I’d love to help problem solve.  Give me a call anytime tomorrow 949-636-9076.


----------



## Rah47

hardinge said:


> Did you find a solution? I may have similar issues.


I never found a solution other than I came to realize that whatever is causing the interference is intermittent and most of the time it's not an issue -- though for the life of me I can't figure out what makes it come and go.  So the fact that it's not a constant problem coupled with coming to the conclusion that the system sounds better with the input transformer led me to make my peace with it.  Hope you are able to figure it out on your end and that it's not proving to be too distracting!


----------



## Traiguen (Oct 31, 2020)

Little Bear said:


> I did a quick and dirty comparison back in post #438 here https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ampsandsound-aka-amps-sound.802346/page-30#post-15763248
> 
> Oh, and I feel guilty about this, but I haven't listened to the GS-X Mini since July when I received the Mogwai SE.  It pains me because the Mini is a _really _good SS amp.  I've just become a card-carrying tube convert.  Now I only use the Mini for late night movie watching.


----------



## TSAVAlan

Justin was kind enough to leave the Nautilus at the shop for a little bit! Rolled in with a giant Pelican case and set it up for us. Gorgeous amp!

Put the Weiss Dac502 into it as a source and tried a few headphones like the LCD-4/Ether 2/Utopia/HD800S.

The synergy with the LCD-4 was absurdly good. Was very lush and musical but at the same time had unreal slam in the bass. The HD800S was simply amazing on the Nautilus. I typically run the Oratory Harman EQ through Roon with my pair at home and I really did not have to on the Nautilus.

Was sad when Justin had to pack it up and bring it home.


----------



## ampsandsound (Nov 11, 2020)

Kind words. Thanks Alan. Source in the original Candy store. First time really sitting down to hear the SR1s, crazzy good.

Anyone hear the SR1 vs the HE1000SE... recently got to pair the HE1000Se with the Nautilus and the Ovation both were insanely good pairings.


----------



## carlman14

Would EL51 tubes be compatible with the Mogwai SE? Using EL51 to EL34 adapters of course.


----------



## branislav

How do Meze Empyreans pair with ampsandsounds headphone amps? I'm thinking Kenzie Ovation may be the best fit, but who knows...


----------



## ScornDefeat

branislav said:


> How do Meze Empyreans pair with ampsandsounds headphone amps? I'm thinking Kenzie Ovation may be the best fit, but who knows...



I also think its worth taking a look at the Pendant for the Empy, too. Pendant works well with most Planars, has a lot of output power in that 32 ohm load and its fairly transparent, neutral presentation wouldn't warm up an already-somewhat-darker headphone much.


----------



## branislav

ScornDefeat said:


> I also think its worth taking a look at the Pendant for the Empy, too. Pendant works well with most Planars, has a lot of output power in that 32 ohm load and its fairly transparent, neutral presentation wouldn't warm up an already-somewhat-darker headphone much.



Thank you for the suggestion. I heard Pendant works very well with Verite, seeing that you have that headphone, would you be able to confirm that? (I'm thinking of purchasing one in the future). How come I don't see Pendant on Ampsandsounds website?


----------



## Bhk1004

branislav said:


> Thank you for the suggestion. I heard Pendant works very well with Verite, seeing that you have that headphone, would you be able to confirm that? (I'm thinking of purchasing one in the future). How come I don't see Pendant on Ampsandsounds website?


It's on zmf website. I think it was on sale for zmf November at 1800 as well. Not sure if it ended.


----------



## ScornDefeat

branislav said:


> Thank you for the suggestion. I heard Pendant works very well with Verite, seeing that you have that headphone, would you be able to confirm that? (I'm thinking of purchasing one in the future). How come I don't see Pendant on Ampsandsounds website?



Pendant and Verite work together very well, it's really quite a good synergy. The Verite has a touch of warmth to it already, but needs that tube output due to its 300 ohm impedance to really get the low-end prominent; the Pendant has enough neutrality to not warm the Verite up too much and allow it's technicalities to shine. 

While the Pendant is designed and built by ampsandsound and is another ampsandsound amp 100%, it is a co-production through ZMF and ZMF branded, so you'd have to buy it through Zach.


----------



## nwavesailor

My only hp are the VO and Empy and find they both pair nicely with the Pendant. I am using a TT2 as DAC


----------



## branislav

nwavesailor said:


> My only hp are the VO and Empy and find they both pair nicely with the Pendant. I am using a TT2 as DAC


That's good to know. How do Verite Open sound compared to Meze? Are they like a mix between Focal headphones and Meze?


----------



## Virion

branislav said:


> How do Meze Empyreans pair with ampsandsounds headphone amps? I'm thinking Kenzie Ovation may be the best fit, but who knows...


The meze / ampsandsound / pendant pairing is a combo I havent thought of yet, but seems very interesting. Was contemplating a focal upotia or stellia with pendant pairing myself with a all mullard tube setup.


----------



## branislav

Nautilus vs Stellaris vs Headonia...let the comparisons start


----------



## MRHiFiReviews

Hey, friends join us this Friday the 18th at 7 pm PST (Los Angeles Time Zone) for a fun live chat with Justin Weber the founder of ampsandsound https://ampsandsound.com/pages/justin-weber discussing his flagship amp the Nautilus, which I have in for review.

  We will also discuss his love for the audiophile hobby, his other amplifiers, music that inspires him, and stick around for a special discount code good for a limited time for friends and family of my youtube https://youtube.com/marcellorostagni   Don't forget to subscribe and turn on all notifications using the bell icon.  Thanks as always for your support, see you Friday the 18th at 7 pm PST.

Much Love,

Marcello


----------



## nwavesailor

MRphotography said:


> Hey, friends join us this Friday the 18th at 7 pm PST (Los Angeles Time Zone) for a fun live chat with Justin Weber the founder of ampsandsound https://ampsandsound.com/pages/justin-weber discussing his flagship amp the Nautilus, which I have in for review.
> 
> We will also discuss his love for the audiophile hobby, his other amplifiers, music that inspires him, and stick around for a special discount code good for a limited time for friends and family of my youtube https://youtube.com/marcellorostagni   Don't forget to subscribe and turn on all notifications using the bell icon.  Thanks as always for your support, see you Friday the 18th at 7 pm PST.
> 
> ...



Looking forward to this chat after placing an order with Justin for the Bigger Ben!


----------



## MRHiFiReviews

nwavesailor said:


> Looking forward to this chat after placing an order with Justin for the Bigger Ben!



Awesome!!!! Looking forward to you joining us @nwavesailor


----------



## Little Bear

This will be a treat.  Justin spent 2 hours on a Friday evening helping me decide which of his amps would be right for me.  I chose the Mogwai SE, which he dropped off at Fedex 30 minutes after we hung up.  I'd buy it again in a New York second!  Justin clearly has a passion for his products and I'm looking forward to hearing him chat some more.


----------



## nwavesailor

Did you have a Pendant before going with the Mogwai SE @Little Bear?


----------



## Little Bear

Nope, I never owned a Pendant.


----------



## Astral Abyss

nwavesailor said:


> Looking forward to this chat after placing an order with Justin for the Bigger Ben!


Already upgrading?


----------



## Bhk1004

Whoa. Justin = celebrity guest


----------



## nwavesailor

Astral Abyss said:


> Already upgrading?


Yup! 
I really like the Pendant and have bought WAY too many tubes for it,  but want to see what a bigger iron and a KT-88 amp sound like. Good news is I already have some pretty good tubes lined up for it's arrival sometime in January.


----------



## MRHiFiReviews

Pumped to see you in the chat!  A few short hours away!! See you soon if you can make it!  7pm PST


----------



## MRHiFiReviews

MRphotography said:


> Pumped to see you in the chat!  A few short hours away!! See you soon if you can make it!  7pm PST




Just a reminder the 10% off coupon from our live stream with Justin for all amps on his site https://www.ampsandsound.com ends tomorrow so make sure to get your orders in before then if you are going to pull the trigger! 😉


----------



## JChasL

Little Bear said:


> This will be a treat.  Justin spent 2 hours on a Friday evening helping me decide which of his amps would be right for me.  I chose the Mogwai SE, which he dropped off at Fedex 30 minutes after we hung up.  I'd buy it again in a New York second!  Justin clearly has a passion for his products and I'm looking forward to hearing him chat some more.


Similar experience a couple weeks ago.  Ordered a Kenzie after an extended phone conversation with Justin.  He happened to have one nearly ready to go, so I have been listening and loving it.  It is a real pleasure to talk with Justin, and then to make a great choice of headphone amplifier as a result--although I doubt that there would be a poor choice among the Ampsandsound lineup.  Generally his amps are built to order, but it usually takes only a few weeks.  Well worth the wait.


----------



## ScooterHD122

A (brief) review of the Amps & Sound Kenzie Ovation:

I recently received the Kenzie Ovation headphone amp as well as pair of Verite Closed cans.  I have only had the rig for a few days, but I thought I would post my thoughts and impressions.  I am by no means a YouTube sommelier of audio gear, and so I will not go into an exposition of soundstage, frequency response etc.  There are others who are better suited for that kind of thing.  Instead, I will just say that this combination is freaking _magical_.  I could use that very tired cliche about how I heard things in familiar songs that I never had before (although it's true), or the raw emotion it delivers (I damn near had chills).   But I won't.  Rather, if you believe being an audiophile is the pursuit of the joy of listening to music instead of the relentless analytical pursuit of the next decimal point, I encourage you to experience this combination.  Be warned though; you may objectively forget your FOMO on the next best thing in audio gear, and just get chills.

Happy Holidays, and thanks so much to Justin and Zach!

Gear: A&S Kenzie Ovation (stock tubes), ZMF Verite Closed (leopardwood, stock cables, Auteur suede pads), Schiit Yggy (upgraded to unison USB and analog 2), Bluesound Node 2i via RCA SPDIF), and A&S XLR to RCA converter

Headphone Bibliography:  Sennheiser HD800, Hifiman HE-500, HE-560, HE-1000 v1, Audeze LCD-2, LCD-X, and Focal Elear, Utopia


----------



## branislav

ScooterHD122 said:


> A (brief) review of the Amps & Sound Kenzie Ovation:
> 
> I recently received the Kenzie Ovation headphone amp as well as pair of Verite Closed cans.  I have only had the rig for a few days, but I thought I would post my thoughts and impressions.  I am by no means a YouTube sommelier of audio gear, and so I will not go into an exposition of soundstage, frequency response etc.  There are others who are better suited for that kind of thing.  Instead, I will just say that this combination is freaking _magical_.  I could use that very tired cliche about how I heard things in familiar songs that I never had before (although it's true), or the raw emotion it delivers (I damn near had chills).   But I won't.  Rather, if you believe being an audiophile is the pursuit of the joy of listening to music instead of the relentless analytical pursuit of the next decimal point, I encourage you to experience this combination.  Be warned though; you may objectively forget your FOMO on the next best thing in audio gear, and just get chills.
> 
> ...



Thank you for your impressions. Have you tried it with your other headphones, namely Elear and HD800's and if so, what do you think of the pairing?


----------



## ScooterHD122

Hello.  I haven't tried it with the Elear yet, but the Utopia worked well. (The Utopia can be _too_ resolving with some amps).  I sold my HD800s years ago..


----------



## nwavesailor (Jan 11, 2021)

Astral Abyss said:


> Already upgrading?


I mentioned ordering a Bigger Ben to see how a more powerful tube amp paired with the VO and Empy. Now it gets a bit more interesting having added a Susvara hp a couple of days ago. It does sound really sweet with the Pendant but is WAY underpowered.

The BB should arrive later this week and should drive the susvara nicely!


----------



## Astral Abyss

nwavesailor said:


> I mentioned ordering a Bigger Ben to see how a more powerful tube amp paired with the VO and Empy. Now it gets a bit more interesting having added a Susvara hp a couple of days ago. It does sound really sweet with the Pendant but is WAY underpowered.
> 
> The BB should arrive later this week and should drive the susvara nicely!



What's the output difference between the two?


----------



## nwavesailor

Pendant:




Bigger Ben


----------



## pkcpga

Looking for some advice.  Looking to get into tube amps, I have a great solid state but like to get a nice starter tube amp.  I own the ZMF Verite Closed along with a bunch of headphones so I was thinking of getting the Pendant or Kenzie or going cheaper with the Tuba or WooAudio WA2?  Since I have a Chord Dave for my solid state if I want over the top detail, I’d like the tube amp to bring the traditional tube warmth and maybe some low end slam instead of everything being so precise and fast.  Was set on the Pendant but everyone seems to think it sounds similar to solid state over the warm typical tube sound.  Thanks in advance for your help.


----------



## JChasL

Given the rest of your gear, I doubt that you would be happy long term with anything less than a Kenzie or Pendant, and I'll bet you would be very pleased with either.  That said it sounds as if the Kenzie is closer to what you are after and would likely be superb with Verite Closed.  I also considered both of those amps and chose the Kenzie--very happy with the choice so far using HD 6xx and AKG K701--while waiting, waiting, and waiting (patiently) for ZMF Atticus Marblewood.  I imagine that you already know that the Kenzie is a gorgeous little amp with a beautifully sweet and musical presentation, though not lacking in authority to my ears.  The Pendant should be punchier and offers more options for modification of the sound via tube selection, which you would probably enjoy down the road.  Hopefully a Pendant owner can comment and add to this. You could also talk with Justin at Ampsandsound by phone (very helpful in my selection as I noted in an earlier comment), and possibly Email Zach at ZMF as well.


----------



## steve468

Pendant owner checking in! Although I haven't heard any other ampsandsound amps to compare, to me the Pendant is more like halfway between typical tube and solid state sounds. It brings a lot of the best qualities of both techs, marrying a meaty midrange, expansive soundstage and lovely sweet treble (tubes) with speed, slam and details (solid state). Is it the best at any one of those things? Probably not, but it's the combination of everything that makes it a good match with VC. Though, even with the most tubey tubes (i.e. bassier, smoother), it still will be overall more neutral than otherwise. It's a sound I think synergizes well with VC, which is so nicely balanced as it is.

I'd love to hear a Kenzie someday though. Is it weird that attracts me more than the more expensive ampsandsound stuff?


----------



## ampsandsound

Though I have examples of my bigger amps the Kenzie is just so good at what it does and feels accessible. Enough so, I still actively use.


----------



## nwavesailor

I received my Bigger Ben yesterday and was up til 5:15AM listening!

I love the Pendant. It is a great amp that easily makes the VO and Empy's sing. The BB is simply MORE of everything.
With the stock new production JJ KT88 and TS 5AR4 and 6SL7, cold right out of the box, it sounded really good. I then started rolling many combinations of 5AR4, 5U4 and USAF 596, a pair of Bendix 6384 and 1943 vintage smoked glass Tung Sol 6SU7 and some 12A** input tubes..........now it's sounding a LOT better. Far too many combinations to remember.

Tonight I put in 1968 GEC KT88's and the hype is real..............WOW! The JJ's are good, the Bendix are better and the GEC KT88's are crazy good!

The ZMF VO and Empy's were easily driven by the Pendant and the BB, the Susvara, however, needed that extra 'Sumpin-Sumpin' (honking huge transformers!) that the BB has and for a hard to drive hp the BB did it very well!

If you have a ampsandsound model that takes KT88 power tubes the GEC are simply stunning. Yes, they are spendy but WOW!!!!!!!!! I'll post some pictures after I listen some more...........I am NOT staying up until 5 this AM.


----------



## nwavesailor

3 LONG nights of listening and I am LOVING the Bigger Ben paired with VO, Empy, and the hard to drive HifiMan Susvara! 
Dead and I mean_ DEAD_ quiet even at step 24 of the 24 stepped pot. The BB does what the Pendant does just more and better controlled bass and sweeter and more  extended highs. 
As much as I was a pendant fan, and still am, the BB is a crazy good tube amp!

Well done Justin and the A&S team!!!


----------



## gugges

Question for people in this thread...

I am trying to buy an endgame amp to pair with my ZMF VCs + RME ADI 2 (maybe Bifrost 2 in the future) and I'm curious how the Pendant compares to the Kenzie Ovation sound wise on the VCs or other ZMFs?

I see a lot of the descriptions for the Ovation as having textured bass which does sound very appealing to me as I listen to a lot of hip hop / electronic music (but a bit of everything really including lots of rock, bluegrass, folk etc).

Other descriptions of the Ovation call it romantic, although I'm unsure what that means exactly. I know the Ovation has more inputs for different impedances which seems nice in theory, but is it that much better than 8ohm / 100ohm like on the Pendant? I would like to add an open headphone to the collection one day so it is part of the equation to have flexibility with the amp I end up choosing. Also, I couldn't find or compare the power outputs of the two amps... I don't see specs for the Ovation on the A&S website, so curious if anyone knows the difference there.

Thanks in advance for the help!
gugges

Edit: Also worth noting that the Pendant SE when it arrives will also have Jupiter caps and a stepped attenuator so I am really comparing against this future model


----------



## branislav (Feb 3, 2021)

I hope it's ok to post here, but my Kenzie Ovation is available. So those who's been thinking about this amp, here's an opportunity to save some money and production time and own this musical headphone amp.


----------



## nwavesailor (Feb 4, 2021)

I was a HUGE fan of the Pendant and was hoping for a bit more of everything with the Bigger Ben and that is exactly what I got!
The BB is one CRAZY good amp that has had me non stop grinning every night I listen.

Simply stunning!!!


----------



## ampsandsound

That’s one of the most insane tube  compliments I’ve ever seen. Lovely selection.


----------



## nwavesailor (Feb 4, 2021)

ampsandsound said:


> That’s one of the most insane tube  compliments I’ve ever seen. Lovely selection.


It sounds GREAT with those dual Siemen C3g's and these dual 6J5G! 

TBH, it also sounds great with ECC35, 12AU7,12AT7 (6201, 7728) or 6SU7..............


----------



## tkam

gugges said:


> Question for people in this thread...
> 
> I am trying to buy an endgame amp to pair with my ZMF VCs + RME ADI 2 (maybe Bifrost 2 in the future) and I'm curious how the Pendant compares to the Kenzie Ovation sound wise on the VCs or other ZMFs?



The Kenzie Ovation is a wonderful amp and pairs extremely well with my ZMF VC & Aeolus.  I actually have tried using the different impedance outputs and I do prefer the 300 ohm.  You'll want to use a tube with a lower amplification factor like a 12sn7 or 12au7 or you'll likely get too much noise on the 300 ohm output.

I use the 8 ohm output with the Empyrean and that's a really nice pairing as well.  

In terms of pure output power the Pendant is rated for higher output despite the fact that the Ovation uses larger output transformers.


----------



## gugges

@tkam thanks for the impressions and tube advice! The empys are definitely on my radar as an open hp so good to know that pairs well with a&s too


----------



## Yassa

Last time i visited my friend in Melbourne i got the chance to listen to Feliks audio Euforia, and i loved the sound.
Now i am in a position to buy my first tube amp and i am wondering if ampsandsound Bigger Ben or ZMF Pendant would be the better choice/noob friendly?
Further more i will be listing out of LCD-X,HD600,Focal Clear, yet to come ( Meze Empyrean).

Please advice on above?


----------



## pkcpga

Yassa said:


> Last time i visited my friend in Melbourne i got the chance to listen to Feliks audio Euforia, and i loved the sound.
> Now i am in a position to buy my first tube amp and i am wondering if ampsandsound Bigger Ben or ZMF Pendant would be the better choice/noob friendly?
> Further more i will be listing out of LCD-X,HD600,Focal Clear, yet to come ( Meze Empyrean).
> 
> Please advice on above?


I have the ZMF pendant and Focal Stellia and Utopia, those for me weren’t the best match.  The Focal’s seem to be very sensitive and there’s a little noise with some tubes, which for me is annoying.  Pairs extremely well with my LCD 4 and ZMF VC.  Never tried the Bigger Ben but looks like a great amp, just seems like more amp then your listed headphones.  Before I’d buy the Bigger Ben, maybe the Mogwai or Pendant with a nice headphone.  Many of the Pendants nos tubes are fairly available and not extremely priced, so it makes it easy to tube roll.  Mazda 12au7 tube, out of low z, with Amperex el84’s and Siemens rectifier tube definitely help remove noise making the pendant sound great with the Focal Utopia.  Still not the biggest fan of the Stellia through the Pendant, personally like the Stellia with solid state better.  Swapping just the Mazda 12au7 with the Amperex 6201 gold pin 12at7 makes the LCD4’s and LCD XC sound amazing.  Good luck, I’d personally not spend $5-6k on an amp without owning some end game headphones and having a dac to match its capabilities.  I’m using the chord Dave with the pendant, might upgrade the amp at some point, but happy with the Pendant right now.


----------



## tkam

I've been running a GE 5-star blackplate 6072 in my Kenzie Ovation with a pair of TS 1626's.  Wonderful combination and I think this 6072 is my new favorite tube in this amp.


----------



## forthehoard

Haven't seen too many size comparison photos, so figured I'd post these since I currently have both a Kenzie OG (originally made in 2016) I bought from a Head-Fi'er last year and a Kenzie Ovation I bought from branislav last month.

The Ovation's set of output impedance choices is great. I find myself gravitating towards the 300-ohm output for my HD 800 and towards the 100-ohm output for my Auteur and Verité.


----------



## gugges

Eagerly awaiting a Mogwai SE which will be my first tube amp! So have a few newbie questions for the group.

If I listen to music on and off throughout the day, is it better to leave the amp on (say 9am to 6pm) or try to be judicious by only turning it on when I use it to extend the life of the tubes? I have seen some comments that excessive flipping of a tube amp on/off is hard on the tubes, but curious what people here do with their amps.

Also, I am just going to buy some high quality but affordable interconnects for starters. What do people think of these? Are there any better alternatives?
https://www.markertek.com/product/m...neglex-quad-rca-male-to-rca-male-black-3-foot
https://www.markertek.com/product/n...gle-1-4-inch-plug-w-gold-contacts-black-shell


----------



## vonnie123

gugges said:


> Eagerly awaiting a Mogwai SE which will be my first tube amp! So have a few newbie questions for the group.
> 
> If I listen to music on and off throughout the day, is it better to leave the amp on (say 9am to 6pm) or try to be judicious by only turning it on when I use it to extend the life of the tubes? I have seen some comments that excessive flipping of a tube amp on/off is hard on the tubes, but curious what people here do with their amps.
> 
> ...


I turn my tubed amps on and off when they are in use.  If you are listening to it most of the time, there is no problem leaving the unit on, but you will wear out the tubes more quickly.  

I try to let the units warm up a few minutes prior to listening sessions.  

Headphones.com has several ampsandsounds owners.  It would be another good place to visit.  Justin Weber (owner of amps and sound) is very helpful, and you can reach out to him (he likes the phone) to get information on product use.


----------



## gugges (Apr 15, 2021)

Thanks @vonnie123 for the response! Yep, Justin has been extremely helpful with my questions to him regarding amp and tube selection, but I haven't yet asked him about interconnects / maintenance. I just figured to ask here in case anyone else would benefit from the answer. Will make sure to also check out headphones.com


----------



## TaronL

Figured I'd post a little teaser here for an upcoming project with Justin! 







Photo credit to @Darthpool


----------



## Strayngs

TaronL said:


> Figured I'd post a little teaser here for an upcoming project with Justin!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice! Cant wait!


----------



## MRHiFiReviews

Happy Weekend friends!  I hope you enjoy my impressions of the @ampsandsound Mogwai OG!


----------



## MRHiFiReviews (Apr 27, 2021)

@ampsandsound new amp the Rockwell!  Never before seen footage of this beast in the wild!  LIve stream this Friday 4/30/2021 at 6 pm PT with Justin discussing his new creation!


----------



## MRHiFiReviews

going live with @ampsandsound Justin in about 50 minutes 6 pm PT!  Hope to see you guys soon!


----------



## Gofish

Mogwai SE - ZMF Verite Ltd Closed

This is an awesome combination. Justin spent considerable time with me on the phone before I made the purchase. He spent time when I received the amp explaining the sound characteristics and tubes. You cannot go wrong with AmpsandSound and Justin. You get more than what you pay for. The sound is amazing! He builds HiFi tanks! You buy once and the only reason you buy again, is to buy up. I get happy every time I put the cans on.

Call Justin and Zach (separately of course). You will be happy all day, every day. There is no better life investment for those who appreciate great sound.


----------



## ampsandsound

Super kind words.  Thank you!


----------



## gugges (May 3, 2021)

@Gofish I also just received my Mogwai SE that I am pairing with the Verite Closed... all I can say is WOW. I have been loving the VC off the high z tap (300 ohm). The texture of the bass and the emotion it brings out in the recordings is incredible and more than outweighs a slightly audible noise floor (low z is dead quiet btw). Does anyone else prefer high z with ZMFs or is it just me? 

Of course, Justin's reputation precedes him. He gave me great advice throughout the build process by helping me choose the perfect amp for my needs and steered me toward a killer set of NOS tubes. If you don't already tune into @MRphotography livestreams, I highly suggest checking them out as another great venue for learning all about Justin's amps.


----------



## MRHiFiReviews

This Saturday 9 am PT Premier.  I hope you all enjoy and have a great rest of your week!


----------



## me2621a

It’s been a while since I have been back on head-fi. During my absence work has been crazy, we moved, we re-emerged from the pandemic shell, and I got my hands on a new tube amp from ampsandsound. Yes like with many of Justin’s other amps I am one of the first to own the Rockwell. I have a longer more detailed review coming, however the Rockwell is simply so good, that I felt compelled to provide a preview. 





In April Justin gave me a call and told me he was going to send me the Rockwell for review in mid May. I laughed and reminded Justin that I already owned the Nautilus and that I was not in the market for a new tube amplifier. He assured he just wanted my honest feedback and for me to write something for either head-fi or Postive Feedback. I gladly accepted and two days after moving in to my new home, the Rockwell arrived. 

Sharing the same chassis as the Bigger Ben, the Rockwell is a medium sized amplifier. It will easily fit on more narrow shelves and while it is chunky it can be moved with only two hands (in comparison to the Nautilus which for me is a two person job). Like the Bigger Ben and Kenzie Ovation, it has one single ended input, a speaker/headphone switch, speaker binding posts, Jupiter capacitors (which are awesome), and a pair of input transformers. Input transformers isolate the ground of the amp and provide a quieter background. The power supply is tube rectified and is relatively simple in comparison to Justin’s other amps, with a big power transformer, and a small choke under the plate. 

The Rockwell represents Justin’s re-entry into the world of direct heated triodes (DHT). The last DHT ampsandsound produced was the Agartha 2. A while back, I asked Justin if it was worth auditioning an Agartha. He told me that while he liked the sound of the Agartha, the noise floor was simply to high for my headphones (at the time I was running a Utopia and a Stellia). Ultimately when Justin retired the Agartha, one of the key reasons was the noise floor. To be clear DHTs will always have a higher noise floor just because a direct heated tube is noisier then a indirectly heated tube. The question is, could Justin deliver a DHT that provided a truly black background across the majority of headphones? 

I am happy to say that when it comes to a low noise floor the Rockwell really delivers. With the Susvara and my 98db/watt speakers I had nothing but a black background. Sticking my head fully into the tweater and mid-range horn of my speakers I could hear nothing. Taking out my Hifiman HE1000SE (96db/mWatt) resulted in the same. I did ask Justin where he thought the headphone compatibility line was, as HE1000SE was the most efficient headphone I had on hand. He told me that anything north of 100 db/mWatt efficient will likely have slight background noise but things south of that should be fine. This means there should be no issues with the majority of high end headphones on the market today. Like the Bigger Ben, Nautilus, and Kenzie Ovation, the Rockwell has 5 impedance taps that are achieved through additional windings on the output transformers. These 5 taps are 8ohms, 16ohms, 32ohms, 100ohms, and 300ohms. With these 5 taps you can customize the sound and ensure that no matter the headphone you can always have the optimal voltage delivered. For me, I spend the vast majority of the time on the 8ohm tap, unless I am listening to HD600s or ZMF headphones in which case I am either on the 32ohm or 300ohm tap. 

Moving to the Rockwell’s power output, this is easily the most powerful 3.5 watt amp that I have ever heard. The Hifiman Susvara is notoriously hard to drive, the Rockwell took control of the Susvara’s with ease. At no time did I feel like the amp was lacking in power. The same was true driving my horn loaded speaker, the 12 inch woofers were easily able to pressurize the room and there were no issues with volume. 

Now that I covered some of the important but boring baseline stuff (power output, noise, compatibility) lets talk about how the Rockwell sounds. The Rockwell embodies the ampsandsound house sound. That means it is an amplifier that sits slightly to the right of neutral, that is dynamic, and fun. It is going to get your toe tapping. Comparing the Rockwell to the other high end amps and in the ampsandsound line (the Kenzie Ovation and the Bigger Ben/Nautilus) the Rockwell has its own unique take on the A&S house sound. While all of Justin’s amps are tonally dense, the Rockwell is tonally perfect. I tend to analyze the difference in the way music is presented on my headphones compared to how I would expect it to be presented live. Listening to the Rockwell I no longer found myself engaging in this game of comparison. It just sounded right. For me this was a revolution, and while every other amp in Justin’s line gets close to this, the Rockwell is simply better. 

To give a comparison, for those who have listened to the Kenzie family of amps, the Rockwell maintains the rich presentation of the Kenzie, but with a lighter more open and simply faster. In comparison to the Bigger Ben and the Nautilus, the Rockwell is slightly more nuanced, and a little softer on the top and bottom. Do no read softer as rolled off, the Rockwell is just more focused on texture, where the Bigger Ben and Nautilus are more focused on slam. Listening to various artists including Mika, the Mountain Goats, and St Vincent, they all sounded exceptional.  This proved that the Rockwell is not a one trick pony.  

Where the Rockwell really excelled was in creating a 3D space. I found both listening with speakers and with the Susvara that sounds and instruments simply jumped off of the traditional 2D canvas. Recording quality did not seem to matter much, and while the Dave and M Scaler are exceptionally good at making even poor recordings sound great, the Rockwell really seemed to make lemonade from even the most sour of lemons. 

You may be reading up to this point and you may say “ok this is clearly a love fest, but where is objectivity?” The Rockwell is not without its faults, but when put in context of cost and features those faults are relatively limited. I personally would have liked to have seen two inputs instead of one. I also would have liked to have an option to add an XLR input. To be fair there is not enough room for either of these additions, but it does not change the fact that I would like them. The other thing to note is that at the end of the day, the Rockwell does have a higher noise floor then a Kenzie Ovation or a Bigger Ben, so while you are fairly safe at <100 db/mW you have to carefully select your input tube to ensure your noise floor is as low as you can get. Luckily this is not hard to do, but still requires you to take the time to do it. Of course if you are < 96db/mW there is nothing to worry about. Other then the limited tube rolling options (we will talk about that in a moment), for my taste in my use, I have not found other faults. 

Moving onto tubes . For those of you who have read my previous reviews and comments in this forum, I think you may realize I love tubes. Direct Heated Triodes (DHT) are special. Some of the most legendary tubes in the audio world are DHTs (think 300Bs and 2A3s). Most people who own single ended DHTs will say that they sound holographic, emotional, and ooze nuance and detail (all of these things are true about the Rockwell). Once you go DHT, there is no going back. Of course people who own DHT amplifiers and re-tube them with NOS tubes also tend to have a lot of money. DHTs (especially NOS 2A3s and 300Bs) are expensive. 

The Rockwell uses the familiar 6SL7 as an input tube. This is where familiar ends, it also uses the 6AX5 rectifier, and two 6B4G power tubes. Justin chose the 6AX5 for two reasons. The first is to make the entire amp run at 6 volts. This allowed for a simpler power supply and a quieter amp. The second reason was cost. You can buy NOS 6AX5 for between $5 and $30 a tube (for those who have been buying 5AR4s and more interesting 5U4Gs I am sure this sounds wonderful). The 6B4G is not overly common. There is only one new stock manufacturer which is Sovtec, and they make a very nice tube for this amp. However, if you buy this amp, you should be buying old stock, and you can likely afford it. NOS 6B4Gs can be bought for as little as $150 a pair. You have to look for them, but you can buy them for a very reasonable price (I know, because I bought 4 pairs for under $500). This is the kicker though, a 6B4G is a 6A3 but with a octal base instead of a 4 pin base. The 6A3 is a 2A3 but with a 6 volt heater current. By transitive property, the 6B4G is more or less a 2A3, but instead of paying north of $800 a pair, you are paying Less than $200. Justin says the Rockwell is “a thinking man’s DHT“, and I completely agree. 





Wrapping this up, the Rockwell is another excellent amp from A&S. I have always loved Justin’s amps, especially his single ended amps that employ zero feedback, and the Rockwell is no exception. To the contrary it is easily my favorite of the bunch, and while my Nautilus is not going anywhere, neither is the Rockwell. The question becomes who is this amp for? I am not sure this amp should be your first tube amp. The Rockwell is really special and you need to have experienced other tube amps to understand what makes it special. Similarly, I think you are better served by the Mogwai SE/Bigger Ben if you are not interested in NOS tubes. However, if you want to own a really special and unique amplifier and are interested in that classic 1950s and 1960s sound you should order a Rockwell.  When I went to box the Rockwell up for its return back to Justin, I simply could not do it. It really is that good. 

More to come.


----------



## barbz127

Looking for a tubier/looser sound with the Kenzie. Can anyone suggest any tubes or are the all more or less the same?

Thankyou


----------



## me2621a

barbz127 said:


> Looking for a tubier/looser sound with the Kenzie. Can anyone suggest any tubes or are the all more or less the same?
> 
> Thankyou


If you want to stick with 12SL7s, take a look at the older RCA black round plates, they sound great.

if you want to experiment with a 12ax7 -> 12SL7 adapter, RCA and Raytheon 5751s are real nice.


----------



## Ragnar-BY

Can somebody explain what “the essence of sound, strictly old-school SET sound.” exactly means?

I’m eying Nautilus and I like a lot of things about it (tube variety, multiple jacks instead of switch or resistors, input transformers, simplicity, e t.c.), but I don’t get this “old-school” thing. I never was a fan of vintage hi-fi, which normally have great midrange, but not very deep or articulated bass. In other words, the old-school I know played the opera recordings beautifully, but could not create the full-blown illusion of a symphony orchestra, which is possible with modern high-res recordings and my solid state Headtrip.

How good Nautilus is when it comes to instrument separations, bass depth and articulation of modern recordings of complex symphonic music?

P.S. Unfortunately it’s impossible to audition ampsandsound amps in the EU


----------



## nwavesailor

Perhaps an old fashioned phone call (or VOIP) to Justin would answer this question. 
He was very patient with me as I asked about the various amp options and settled on the Bigger Ben. I did not have the space for the larger Nautilus and am thrilled with the BB paired with Susvara and T+A P.


----------



## Ragnar-BY

nwavesailor said:


> thrilled with the BB paired with Susvara and T+A P.


How it works with more sensitive P? Background is completely black, or not?


----------



## nwavesailor (Aug 22, 2021)

Yes black background. Just some microphonics from 1960's era GEC KT88's paired with the P.


----------



## me2621a

A&S amps have a


Ragnar-BY said:


> Can somebody explain what “the essence of sound, strictly old-school SET sound.” exactly means?
> 
> I’m eying Nautilus and I like a lot of things about it (tube variety, multiple jacks instead of switch or resistors, input transformers, simplicity, e t.c.), but I don’t get this “old-school” thing. I never was a fan of vintage hi-fi, which normally have great midrange, but not very deep or articulated bass. In other words, the old-school I know played the opera recordings beautifully, but could not create the full-blown illusion of a symphony orchestra, which is possible with modern high-res recordings and my solid state Headtrip.
> 
> ...


A&S amps have that classic sound when it comes to the mid range. You get that warmth, texture, and clarity. However that is where classic ends. The low end of the nautilus is exceptional for a single ended amplifier, and the same is true for the treble.

I think it is really important to remember that tube choice will dictate how low you go as well as how extended your treble is but you can really customize to fit your needs.

For highly sensitive headphones, the nautilus is capable of delivering incredibly low noise and black background but that is entirely dependent on the tubes you put in the amp. If they are quiet, this amp is quiet.


----------



## nwavesailor

@me2621a has had / heard most (if not ALL) of these amps over the years so he would know more than most anyone other than Justin. 
He was a big help to me when I got my BB and also in convincing me just how great the Susvara were. He was spot on and I continue to enjoy both!


----------



## Ragnar-BY

me2621a said:


> I think it is really important to remember that tube choice will dictate how low you go as well as how extended your treble is but you can really customize to fit your needs.


Thank you for clarifying. I understand about extension of both ends of frequency range, but that’s only one thing.

It’s hard for me to explain it in English, but I will try 🤣  With symphonic music (Mahler No2 for example) there are moments when whole orchestra is playing (it’s called tutti). Such moments become a real test for the amplifier. With a great amplifier these moments are played without loss of separation. You hear the whole grandiose event, but you still perfectly understand that it consists of individual instruments that are still perfectly played. In my opinion, maintaining separation in the most difficult moments of the recording is one of the things that distinguishes a good or “ok” amplifier from a great one. 

I never heard really high-end tube amplifiers in my system side by side with Headtrip, but simple and not very powerful SET (not ampsandsound) absolutely was not able to do this. It produced really nice tone and image during solo passages, but tutti was a mess - amplifier was not able to maintain that holographic separated imaging during complex passages. It did not unfold the stage in proportion to its full width at such a moment, but rather shrink the orchestra to a smaller size, losing the individuality of the instruments and the space between them.

Since then I started thinking that this kind of separation and polyphony is not possible with normal tube headphone amps, only balanced (like WA33) or insanely powerful (like 845 Egoista). Am I wrong and Nautilus will have no problem maintaining imaging and separation while playing complex orchestral passages?

P.S. By the way, have somebody compared Nautilus to more common TOTL amplifiers like WA33?


----------



## me2621a

Ragnar-BY said:


> Thank you for clarifying. I understand about extension of both ends of frequency range, but that’s only one thing.
> 
> It’s hard for me to explain it in English, but I will try 🤣  With symphonic music (Mahler No2 for example) there are moments when whole orchestra is playing (it’s called tutti). Such moments become a real test for the amplifier. With a great amplifier these moments are played without loss of separation. You hear the whole grandiose event, but you still perfectly understand that it consists of individual instruments that are still perfectly played. In my opinion, maintaining separation in the most difficult moments of the recording is one of the things that distinguishes a good or “ok” amplifier from a great one.
> 
> ...



Send me an example song (that I can get on Qobuz or Tidal), so I can take a listen. Also what headphones are you using? I have been impressed with the performance of A&S amps, but In fairness I do not listen to as much Symphonic music, but I can take a listen and let you know if I think it the sound stage maintained separation or if it collapses. 

I have listened to the WA33. It is a very nice amp, but in general I find the Woo amps to be warmer, still excellent but where A&S amps are a touch warmer then neutral, woo amps including the WA33 falls into “warm” to me.


----------



## Ragnar-BY

me2621a said:


> Send me an example song (that I can get on Qobuz or Tidal), so I can take a listen.


https://www.qobuz.com/us-en/album/m...e-royal-concertgebouw-orchestra/elm4fqljyqnka

Here is the album.



me2621a said:


> I have listened to the WA33


What do you think about “technicalities” (top and bottom extension, attak, soundstage depth, separation) of the two?


----------



## ampsandsound

https://www.qobuz.com/us-en/album/m...&ranSiteID=je6NUbpObpQ-XpldPPU8FdVstXjbsRyPCg


----------



## Ragnar-BY

@ampsandsound 
Justin, is there an option of protective cage/grill for Nautilus? Something like Mcintosh or Cayin have:


----------



## ampsandsound

Unfortunately not. I’ve had customers get tempter glad cut and made for a cover over the tubes for which they remove when in use. Pled would do the same.


----------



## Ragnar-BY

Oh, that's sad. I was hoping it could be a custom option. Protective cage would have been really useful for people with small kids, but all TOTL headphone amps are designed without it for some reason.


----------



## Strayngs

Ragnar-BY said:


> Oh, that's sad. I was hoping it could be a custom option. Protective cage would have been really useful for people with small kids, but all TOTL headphone amps are designed without it for some reason.


Jeff Wells has a cover for his new Dragon. I have it. It is a bit inconvenient to take off each time to turn the amp on and off though. I wish ampsandsound had this option too as I have a small child and unfortunately cannot have exposed tubes for a few years.


----------



## Bassic Needs

Any intel about what wood selection may be in the next batch of Pendant SE's? I just ordered one. Zmf's site says current is Olive Burl, which I am not crazy about,  but I am not sure if that is up to date.


----------



## MRHiFiReviews

I hope you enjoy it! This is a long one as I compare to the Pendant, and Mogwai OG as well as describe the Nautilus quality of sound with several headphones.



Have a great weekend friends.


----------



## Faisalova

MRphotography said:


> I hope you enjoy it! This is a long one as I compare to the Pendant, and Mogwai OG as well as describe the Nautilus quality of sound with several headphones.
> 
> 
> 
> Have a great weekend friends.



Great review. Very informative. I have the Mogwai OG right now, and saving up to get the Nautilus hopefully soon.


----------



## TonyTripleA

ampsandsound said:


> Kind words. Thanks Alan. Source in the original Candy store. First time really sitting down to hear the SR1s, crazzy good.
> 
> Anyone hear the SR1 vs the HE1000SE... recently got to pair the HE1000Se with the Nautilus and the Ovation both were insanely good pairings.


Justin, just getting delivery of a Bigger Ben here in Australia. I wondered if the SR1  safely be used with it given the very low impedance? I’d be tempted to get a pair!

thanks Tony


----------



## nwavesailor

TonyTripleA said:


> Justin, just getting delivery of a Bigger Ben here in Australia. I wondered if the SR1  safely be used with it given the very low impedance? I’d be tempted to get a pair!
> 
> thanks Tony


I think you will be really happy with the BB and TT2. I've had this combo (and MS) for about 8 months and I am one very happy ampandsound owner. 
The stock tubes are quite nice but going to vintage GEC KT88, A-2900 and a 596 rectifier really made it shine with the susvara and T+A, P.

Justin is one heck of an amp wizard!!!!!


----------



## TonyTripleA

nwavesailor said:


> I think you will be really happy with the BB and TT2. I've had this combo (and MS) for about 8 months and I am one very happy ampandsound owner.
> The stock tubes are quite nice but going to vintage GEC KT88, A-2900 and a 596 rectifier really made it shine with the susvara and T+A, P.
> 
> Justin is one heck of an amp wizard!!!!!


Thanks nwavesailor, appreciate the tips on the tubes too! I’m a bit of a tube novice so the journey will be interesting but I’m sure challenging. Is there a place you’d recommend to purchase tubes, as I’m in Australia it is likely to be a bit limited here.

cheers,

T


----------



## nwavesailor

I've done well finding strong testing KT88's on E-Bay. I was very patient and looked at a lot of them as well as seller feedback and if they took returns if they did not test as strong as advertised.

 Langrex in the UK has some NOS TT21 (KT88 = ) that are made by GEC and most folks find them as good and a ess costly alternative to the GEC KT88. You will need a pair of adapters that some top quality sellers in China make as these have a top anode cap.




There is a gentleman here on HeadFi that has great testing A2900 and you will need an adapter for that as well (12a**) as any 12AU7, 12AT7, 12AX7.

The BBis a really amazing amp and I am thrilled to own this beast!!!


----------



## TonyTripleA (Oct 2, 2021)

nwavesailor said:


> I think you will be really happy with the BB and TT2. I've had this combo (and MS) for about 8 months and I am one very happy ampandsound owner.
> The stock tubes are quite nice but going to vintage GEC KT88, A-2900 and a 596 rectifier really made it shine with the susvara and T+A, P.
> 
> Justin is one heck of an amp wizard!!!!!


So sad, the bigger Ben arrived. Put on the gloves inserted the tubes…. Volume to zero, power on: a buzz, a pop, and then smoke from under the left hand transformer. Powered off immediately. Sadly didn’t get to hear a note. And there are no more replacement amps for some time in Australia.

Maybe have to try the Kenzie ovation instead? Not sure it will have the same bass energy, but reading this thread I feel I won’t be disappointed in how the utopias might benefit from the enhanced purity?

Edit… okay it was my bad, Justin was very helpful and suggested I check the valve insertion was correct… one valve the 6SL7 was incorrectly inserted. And I was careful I thought… so a lesson to me “watch that that key is directly in the correct place”. Thought it was worth publicly shaming myself as a warning to others. And thanks to Hugo at Indi HiFi for his patience with me and help with this!

sigh….


Tony


----------



## ThanatosVI

Any sound impressions for the Forge available?

The headphones.com exklusive amp from ampsandsound.


----------



## Wes S

ThanatosVI said:


> Any sound impressions for the Forge available?
> 
> The headphones.com exklusive amp from ampsandsound.


There is some good info over on the Headphones.com forum.


----------



## omega1990

Did anyone get to hear the Agartha amp at canjam? I tried asking in the canjam forum but did not see a response.


----------



## TonyTripleA

TonyTripleA said:


> So sad, the bigger Ben arrived. Put on the gloves inserted the tubes…. Volume to zero, power on: a buzz, a pop, and then smoke from under the left hand transformer. Powered off immediately. Sadly didn’t get to hear a note. And there are no more replacement amps for some time in Australia.
> 
> Maybe have to try the Kenzie ovation instead? Not sure it will have the same bass energy, but reading this thread I feel I won’t be disappointed in how the utopias might benefit from the enhanced purity?
> 
> ...


I can now report the repairs are complete from my misalignment of the 6SL7 tube. Justin was very helpful, and yes just a simple replacement of a capacitor and two resistors. Ouch, but now working and working well. Dead silent noise floor on the bigger Ben with the utopias, and very impressive sound. Ill give myself some time listening before defining the sound but words such as engaging, relaxed and resolving spring to mind. Definitely not fatiguing with the focal utopias. I may look at the tubes for some more slam later but for now enjoying the stock tubes with jazz, vocals and guitar… very nice with folk styles.

impressive!

Tony


----------



## TonyTripleA

nwavesailor said:


> I've done well finding strong testing KT88's on E-Bay. I was very patient and looked at a lot of them as well as seller feedback and if they took returns if they did not test as strong as advertised.
> 
> Langrex in the UK has some NOS TT21 (KT88 = ) that are made by GEC and most folks find them as good and a ess costly alternative to the GEC KT88. You will need a pair of adapters that some top quality sellers in China make as these have a top anode cap.
> 
> ...


nwavesailor, you mentioned that the "596 rectifier" tube improved the sound... can I ask an uninformed question, is this equal to a 5963 or an 5965 valve which is available from the Valve Store in Australia? I'd value your description of how the sound was improved if you can? 

One last question, did you find replacing the 6SLN tube made a noticable difference? Any recommendations appreciated. 

I've made the decision to try some KT88 tubes... okay, I love the stock sound, but some added slam for some of my more juvenile inclinations cannot be a bad thing from time to time right! I'm thinking Therion, Clavicula Nox... operatic heavy Swedish metal but so orchestral in nature.... 

Anyhow, I think I'm on the valve swap gravy train...

T


----------



## nwavesailor (Oct 8, 2021)

Trying various input tubes, in place of the stock 6SLN, should make the single biggest difference for the BB. Most folks feel power tubes next and then the rectifier.

There are some nice vintage or perhaps real NOS Tung Sol 6SU7 or Mullard ECC35 both drop in replacements w/o the need for an adapter

I think Justin has found that a lot of folks get an adapter to allow use of the many 12AU7, 12AT7, 12AX7 input tube versions with the base of the adapter 6SN7 / 6SL7. The list of tubes to safely use with this adapter is nearly endless. I use 12A**, Valvo 6201, Raytheon 7728 / 7730, GEC A2900 to name a few great ans some exotics.

Two well respected tube wizards have found an inexpensive input tube and these guys, @Wes S and @Guidostrunk, are saying it is FANTASTIC! They have bought and tried countless tubes and spent a fortune over time. It is the RFT ECC81, 12AT7 foil geter . Mine have not arrived yet!

If you don't want to go All IN on KT88's there is a odd tube called the Bendix 6384. Sounds really nice and you will need an adapter 6L6 at the amp and 6384 at the top. Justin heard these and though they sounded good. Then again there is always the GEC KT 88.

Read all and everything here posted by @me2621a. He has had most every amp made by Justin and is a great guy who REALLY knows what tubes really shine in these amps.

Welcome down the rabbit hole!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## AndyTheGreatest

The 5691 RCA red base 6SL7GT made me instantly stop buying more input tubes for my Bigger Ben. It just added so much weight to every note and still added detail.

For $90, it was the best tube value I've ever bought.


----------



## me2621a

nwavesailor said:


> Trying various input tubes, in place of the stock 6SLN, should make the single biggest difference for the BB. Most folks feel power tubes next and then the rectifier.
> 
> There are some nice vintage or perhaps real NOS Tung Sol 6SU7 or Mullard ECC35 both drop in replacements w/o the need for an adapter
> 
> ...


Happy to help where I can, I also happen to have pretty much every 6SL7 and sub in existence, along with a vast collection of NOS power tubes so happy to offer help and suggestions.

Thanks again for the shout out! You can’t go wrong with any of Justin’s amps but they all have a unique flavor.


----------



## nwavesailor (Oct 8, 2021)

I got a TON of help and valuable guidance from @me2621a when I bought my BB and all the suggestions he made were very good and accurate.
One of the best decisions I made, with @me2621a's  help, was buying the GEC A-2900 input tube. Much better all around and with nice extension in the detail and treble end as well as the bass.
You can figure the tube thing out  by yourself and spend tons of $$$ and time or have someone who has already been there and done that make your buying decisions easier with a much shorter learning curve!!!


----------



## TonyTripleA

nwavesailor said:


> I got a TON of help and valuable guidance from @me2621a when I bought my BB and all the suggestions he made were very good and accurate.
> One of the best decisions I made, with @me2621a's  help, was buying the GEC A-2900 input tube. Much better all around and with nice extension in the detail and treble end as well as the bass.
> You can figure the tube thing out  by yourself and spend tons of $$$ and time or have someone who has already been there and done that make your buying decisions easier with a much shorter learning curve!!!


Firstly, triple thanks nwavesailor, and me2621a... as a neophyte on tubes your advice is greatly appreciated. 

My enthusiasm has seen me order:

- RCA made in USA N.O.S 6SL7GT (last one so I grabbed it) not sure its the actual one you mentioned
- TUNG SOL 6SL7GT GOLD (couldn't resist, I know, I know....)

I will report back by impressions when they arrive. 

I will try and source the adapter to try what your suggested, the GEC A-2900. Any tips on where to get the adaptor are appreciated.

I have seen a little spark on start up in my rectifier so I'd likely look to a recommendation on changing that too in the near future if you have any suggestions?

You mention going down the KT88 rabbit hole... yes please, if it don't send me broke. I note your suggestion and would love to hear your opinions on the ones I have my eye on, based on Indi HiFi's recommendation of Shuguang tubes:

- Shuguang Black Treasure KT88-Z (gold grid) matched pair

These are available from the Tube Amp Doctor in Germany at what seems like a reasonable price. I was a bit shocked at the US prices by the way. Easy to loose quite a bit of change on these things.

Again, very much appreciate your guidance,

T


----------



## nwavesailor (Oct 9, 2021)

TonyTripleA said:


> Firstly, triple thanks nwavesailor, and me2621a... as a neophyte on tubes your advice is greatly appreciated.
> 
> My enthusiasm has seen me order:
> 
> ...



The Tung Sol you bought is current production and may be fine and may just have gold pins compared to the TS you received with your BB.

 The TS I have is a smoked glass version from the 1943.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/123793807709?hash=item1cd2af995d:g:TcQAAOSwyJVc-IU

https://www.ebay.com/itm/224639290785?hash=item344d8b8da1:g:rr4AAOSwdt5hX9py

htg%253D%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2334524

G




TonyTripleA said:


> I will report back by impressions when they arrive.
> 
> I will try and source the adapter to try what your suggested, the GEC A-2900. Any tips on where to get the adapter are appreciated.



A lot of folks here have had very good luck with this converter seller from China. This convertor will work for 12AU7, 12AT7, 12AX7, a2900 and MANY others! These may be available for a few $$ less but these are wired right and very well made.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/200913552031?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649



TonyTripleA said:


> I have seen a little spark on start up in my rectifier so I'd likely look to a recommendation on changing that too in the near future if you have any suggestions?
> 
> You mention going down the KT88 rabbit hole... yes please, if it don't send me broke. I note your suggestion and would love to hear your opinions on the ones I have my eye on, based on Indi HiFi's recommendation of Shuguang tubes:
> 
> - Shuguang Black Treasure KT88-Z (gold grid) matched pair



I have not tried the BT. They are also current production tubes made in China. The GEC KT88 and A2900 were made in the UK in the 50's 60's and 70's and yes, are more $$$



TonyTripleA said:


> These are available from the Tube Amp Doctor in Germany at what seems like a reasonable price. I was a bit shocked at the US prices by the way. Easy to loose quite a bit of change on these things.
> 
> Again, very much appreciate your guidance,
> 
> T


----------



## hmss007

omega1990 said:


> Did anyone get to hear the Agartha amp at canjam? I tried asking in the canjam forum but did not see a response.


I bought it from Justin at the show and I’m still forming my opinion. I’ll try to provide more my thoughts soon.


----------



## DJJEZ

Anyone compared the nautilus against the wa33 or wa33 elite jps?


----------



## omega1990

hmss007 said:


> I bought it from Justin at the show and I’m still forming my opinion. I’ll try to provide more my thoughts soon.


So its been a few weeks since you posted this. Have you spent enough time with it yet to form some thoughts? Any would be appreciated


----------



## TylersEclectic

Just finished up a live stream with @ampsandsound 
Here is the link:


----------



## inmytaxi (Nov 17, 2021)

Has anyone tried the xlr to rca transformers? I am considering if the signal from my Bifrost 2 would be boosted so I get more range on the pots and I'm not overdriving the tubes with x7s.


----------



## TylersEclectic

edited the livestream to just the Agartha discussion... it can be found here:


----------



## Wes S

TylersEclectic said:


> edited the livestream to just the Agartha discussion... it can be found here:



Great video and thanks for sharing bro!


----------



## TylersEclectic

Wes S said:


> Great video and thanks for sharing bro!


Thanks bud! I have a lot of fun doing these! Hopefully I can land some more industry folks to chat about their products in the future


----------



## timeslip

I moved my zmf pendant to a new location inside the flight case and was careful to store all the tubes inside the original boxes. 

Now it won’t power on. Does anyone have any ideas what might be wrong?


----------



## me2621a

timeslip said:


> I moved my zmf pendant to a new location inside the flight case and was careful to store all the tubes inside the original boxes.
> 
> Now it won’t power on. Does anyone have any ideas what might be wrong?


Check the fuse, make sure it did not blow.


----------



## timeslip

me2621a said:


> Check the fuse, make sure it did not blow.


It looks like it's in tact.  There are no breaks in it.  What model number would  i replace it with, if I wanted to try and swap it?


----------



## AryaHD

1.6a 250v slow blow for my Mogwai SE, don’t know if pendant would be the same.


----------



## timeslip

AryaHD said:


> 1.6a 250v slow blow for my Mogwai SE, don’t know if pendant would be the same.


Thanks!


----------



## AryaHD

Pendant might use a lower amperage fuse. The amperage should be marked on the fuse.


----------



## timeslip

Ok. I replaced the fuse, but it still won’t power on. Any other suggestions?


----------



## me2621a

New Rectifier tube or try a new power cord (just to check the obvious things).


----------



## nwavesailor

me2621a said:


> New Rectifier tube or try a new power cord (just to check the obvious things).


Or that the outlet is energized!  I worked at an audio mod company and you'd be surprised how many times it was something simple........ Bad power cord, bad interconnect, tripped breaker or blown fuse but you checked or changed that.


----------



## ampsandsound

its 750ma Slow Blow.
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Bel-Fuse/5TT-750-R?qs=MvPYbBWWJyv%2BqEEMSvNsMw== 
Hope this helps


----------



## MLPhoenix

Hello everyone, don’t usually post about purchases but I received my Nautilus about 2 months ago and have had a few requests to share my thoughts.

First off, I am not a reviewer and certainly don’t have a broad enough understanding of the market to provide reasonable comparisons.  My aim is to share my experiences as a Nautilus owner for anyone that is interested.  You might think of this as more testimonial than review.

For reference my system is:

POWER - PS Audio P12
TRANSPORT - Ifi Zen Stream
DAC - Holo Audio May DAC KTE
AMP - Ampsandsound Nautilus
OPEN HEADPHONES - ZMF Verite Open
CLOSED HEADPHONES - Dan Clark Audio Aeon 2 Closed
SPEAKERS - Klipsch r-51m (hilariously out of place I know)


*THE AMPSANDSOUND EXPERIENCE*

My time purchasing audio equipment has been almost universally positive but doing business with Justin has been a truly exceptional experience.  I have had the pleasure of dealing with many interesting people that care about their products and their customers however even in this context Justin easily sets himself apart as one of the best.  Buying this amp reminded me of buying tailored clothing or good meals at restaurants where you know the owner.  Personal and wonderful.


*USER EXPERIENCE AND USE CASE*

When it comes to using the Nautilus two themes dominate, simplicity and versatility.  There are many amplifiers that have the ability to drive both speakers and headphones but I have never used one that does so without feeling like a compromise on one or the other.  So long as you understand the limitations of speaker/headphone sensitivity (more on that in the next section) the Nautilus can easily fulfil all your amplifier needs and it accomplishes this feat with only two switches and a volume knob.  


*SYSTEM MATCHING AND TUBE SELECTION*

While the Nautilus is impressively versatile it is still a SET amp and that requires consideration for the sensitivity of speakers/headphones.  In brief, headphones that are too sensitive for the tubes being used are subject to excessive tube noise and speakers that are not sensitive enough will be too quiet or sound weak/thin.

In my time with the Nautilus I have tried several combinations of tubes including the following:

INPUT - 12au7, 12ax7 and 5751
POWER - 7581a, kt66, kt88

Generally speaking this is a very quiet amp (very little in the way of hum or hiss) even with kt88s and sensitive headphones.  I found that kt88s are too much power for the Verites because ANY flaw in the tube (ringing, rattling, etc.) came through loud and clear so I gravitated toward the 7581a and kt66 when listening with them.  For speaker listening I was consistently surprised at how much volume I could get even with lower power tubes but I have a small room and speaker listening has not been my focus so far.

In the next two sections I will try to focus on the sound of the Nautilus irrespective of the tubes being used but that isn’t to say the tubes don’t matter.  My general impressions of these tubes are below.  Please note that the groupings (i.e. 12au7/7581a) do not necessarily refer to using the listed input and power tubes as a pair, these tubes just have similar effects on sound.

12au7/7581a  - Softer/looser, increased romance and intimacy
12ax7/kt88 - Stiffer/tighter, increased linearity and space
5751 - Between 12au7 and 12ax7 but closer to 12au7
kt66 - Between 7581a and kt88 but closer to kt88


*SOUND STRENGTHS AND WEAKNESSES*

This section is as close to proper review territory as I will get.  I have chosen what I perceive to be the top and bottom two performance characteristics of the Nautilus.  There are a couple things that I ask you to keep in mind here.  The first is my lack of exposure to true competition at the price point.  The second is that the overall performance of this amp is extremely strong.  The weaknesses I list here are relative to the strengths.  In actual use I have NEVER come away wanting more.

The greatest strengths of the Nautilus are:
- Vocal realism - Vocal timber sounds as close to real life as I have ever heard.​- Presence - Sounds have a weight to them that makes it seem like the sources are in the room.​
The greatest weaknesses of the Nautilus are:
- Space - Spaces that should feel boundless (think Solar Fields) sometimes sound a bit enclosed​- Bass Speed/control - In music where bass is supposed to start and stop on a dime (mostly electronic) it sometimes sounds a little softer than would be ideal​

*LISTENING EXPERIENCE*

For me there is one word to describe the Nautilus, emotional.  In my time listening to music I have had many emotional responses but nothing quite like the Nautilus.  This amp brings a unique combination of intimacy and realism to voices that gives a powerful sense that not only is the singer here, but that they are singing specifically to me.  The music creating an emotional bridge between me and the artist is simply breathtaking and I'm not ashamed to say I was brought to tears more than once.

I don’t want to give the impression that the amp is only good for sentimental genres.  The feeling invoked depends on the type of music but I am consistently drawn to experiencing the music rather than analyzing it.  I suppose you could say that where some gear fools my head, the Nautilus fools my heart.


*CONCLUSION*

This amplifier is not cheap, it weighs a ton and dominates the space it occupies.  This cannot be mistaken for a lifestyle product but is a statement piece.  It is a lifetime purchase that has already had a profound impact on how I engage with music and I look forward to hearing what it can do in a two channel setup when I have space for a proper listening room.


----------



## barbz127

Can anyone make a recommendation for input tubes for the kenzie encore that will be silent with the verite (100db/mw) on the high-z output?

So far Ive tried 3 different Raytheon 2c52's, a couple of Sylvania 12sl7's and a Raytheon 5751 windmill getter but all are noisy with the above combination.

The amp with the verite and high-z output is silent if I swap in either a RCA 5814 or TungSol 12AU7WA/6189


----------



## mfgillia

MLPhoenix said:


> Hello everyone, don’t usually post about purchases but I received my Nautilus about 2 months ago and have had a few requests to share my thoughts.
> 
> First off, I am not a reviewer and certainly don’t have a broad enough understanding of the market to provide reasonable comparisons.  My aim is to share my experiences as a Nautilus owner for anyone that is interested.  You might think of this as more testimonial than review.
> 
> ...


Truly fantastic review - thanks for sharing. I keep contemplating whether to pickup a tube amp to complement by Verite Closed and often come back to looking at different products by AmpsandSound. Happy to hear you've had a very positive experience with the company.


----------



## smodtactical

MLPhoenix said:


> Hello everyone, don’t usually post about purchases but I received my Nautilus about 2 months ago and have had a few requests to share my thoughts.
> 
> First off, I am not a reviewer and certainly don’t have a broad enough understanding of the market to provide reasonable comparisons.  My aim is to share my experiences as a Nautilus owner for anyone that is interested.  You might think of this as more testimonial than review.
> 
> ...



Have you gotten a chance to compare it to any other high end tube amps ?


----------



## robyzfi

TonyTripleA said:


> I can now report the repairs are complete from my misalignment of the 6SL7 tube. Justin was very helpful, and yes just a simple replacement of a capacitor and two resistors. Ouch, but now working and working well. Dead silent noise floor on the bigger Ben with the utopias, and very impressive sound.


I wasn't as lucky as you. Unfortunately, in my BB the power transformer (230v) was buzzing from the first power on. DC blocker (Isotek EVO3 Synchro Uni) and power bar cleaner (Gemini) didn't help.

I liked the BB very much, but mechanical noise (which I could hear also in the headphones) made me send it back to Justin. Given that shipping costs so much money, I will try to sell it in US.


----------



## MLPhoenix

smodtactical said:


> Have you gotten a chance to compare it to any other high end tube amps ?



Not yet.  There is a chance I will get my hands on something from Woo Audio sometime this year but that isn't settled.  If that materializes and I have anything useful to share I will give an update.


----------



## barbz127

robyzfi said:


> I wasn't as lucky as you. Unfortunately, in my BB the power transformer (230v) was buzzing from the first power on. DC blocker (Isotek EVO3 Synchro Uni) and power bar cleaner (Gemini) didn't help.
> 
> I liked the BB very much, but mechanical noise (which I could hear also in the headphones) made me send it back to Justin. Given that shipping costs so much money, I will try to sell it in US.


One other thing to try is to make a lead that will allow you to ground the amplifier from the outside (ground connection) of an rca.

I have a 230v Kenzie encore that would hum through the headphone and physically when powered on; by running a lead from any of the spare rca grounds to the ground terminal in a spare iec lead (obviously electrical disclaimer here, make sure you know what wire is.what etc) all physical noise was gone and 70% of the noise through the headphone socket.

I had to drop down with adaptors from the stock input tube to a 12au7 to reduce the gain thereby removing all noise.


----------



## robyzfi

barbz127 said:


> One other thing to try is to make a lead that will allow you to ground the amplifier from the outside (ground connection) of an rca.


Thanks! Unfortunately, I don't have the BB anymore to try.


----------



## DenverW

Hey all!  I will soon be the owner of a bigger ben Rev one and very excited!  Can’t wait to discuss tube rolling with you all.  I have quite a few totl tubes from my crack, including some 12au7 and 6sn7.  I already have a 6sn7 to 12au7 adapter that I had used back in the day with an old dark voice 336se.  All suggestions welcome!


----------



## ThanatosVI

DenverW said:


> Hey all!  I will soon be the owner of a bigger ben Rev one and very excited!  Can’t wait to discuss tube rolling with you all.  I have quite a few totl tubes from my crack, including some 12au7 and 6sn7.  I already have a 6sn7 to 12au7 adapter that I had used back in the day with an old dark voice 336se.  All suggestions welcome!


Which totl 12au7 do you have?


----------



## phthora

DenverW said:


> Hey all!  I will soon be the owner of a bigger ben Rev one and very excited!  Can’t wait to discuss tube rolling with you all.  I have quite a few totl tubes from my crack, including some 12au7 and 6sn7.  I already have a 6sn7 to 12au7 adapter that I had used back in the day with an old dark voice 336se.  All suggestions welcome!



Good for you, man! I saw that beauty in the classifieds and if the timing had been different I would have bought that amp instead of the LCD-5. Congrats! Looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## DenverW (Feb 9, 2022)

ThanatosVI said:


> Which totl 12au7 do you have?


A couple!  I have a pre 1955 amperex welded plate 45 slant getter, a Marconi b329, Telefunken black coated G73R, and my favorite of the bunch is a welded plate Lorenz circle getter.  Then a lot of good standard ones like the Telefunken smooth plate and Siemens silver plate and such.  Yay for tubes!


----------



## DenverW

phthora said:


> Good for you, man! I saw that beauty in the classifieds and if the timing had been different I would have bought that amp instead of the LCD-5. Congrats! Looking forward to your impressions.


Hoping to love it, as it’s now my single most expensive piece of gear!  I remember starting out in audiophile world years ago thinking…hmm that hd600 is expensive!


----------



## nwavesailor

You WILL love it!
I have had my BB for a little over a year and it pairs wonderfully with the TT2 / M scaler and DAVE M scaler.

I settled on GEC KT88 (or GEC TT21 w/ adapter for less $) and many great Tele, Valvo, Brimar, Tung Sol , Raytheon, HiVac  12AU7, 12AT7, 12AX7, 4033, 4035 as well as 6201, even a dual adapter with 2, 6J5 instead of a 6SN7. There are SO many great input tubes that sound fantastic in the BB it is very fun to try the combos.

I settled on the USAF 596 rectifier or Emissions Labs 5U4G.


----------



## DenverW

So I’m excited to have the bigger ben arriving, and for fun I’ve been looking into some tubes and variants I did not have a lot of knowledge on.  I’ve attached a little sheet below; if anyone sees something not compatible or that would cause a problem let me know.  I didnt get into 12au7 and 6sn7 variants because I’ve got those locked from Bottlehead .  I also didn’t dig deep into rectifier tubes, so suggestions are welcome.  In fact, any suggestions are welcome!

a question:  are there combinations of tubes below that could damage the amp or tubes used?  

Power Tubes:

KT88

6L6/6L6GC/6L6GC-STR

6550

EL34/6CA7/KT77

KT66

KT90

TT21 (with adapter)



Input Tubes:

6SL7/5691/ECC35/6SU7

6SN7 -low noise floor

12AU7 (adapter) low noise floor, good for efficient headphones

12AX7 (Adapter) ECC83/5751/6681/7729/7025/ECC803S/B759/12DF7/12DT7/12AD7 High gain

12AT7 (Adapter) ECC81/A2900 medium gain



Rectifier tubes:

5AR4/GZ34 - power, good for inefficient headphones

5U4B – lower noise floor, good for efficient headphones


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

DenverW said:


> Hey all!  I will soon be the owner of a bigger ben Rev one and very excited!  Can’t wait to discuss tube rolling with you all.  I have quite a few totl tubes from my crack, including some 12au7 and 6sn7.  I already have a 6sn7 to 12au7 adapter that I had used back in the day with an old dark voice 336se.  All suggestions welcome!


You are going to love it.  That was a great deal.    Having the 5 taps really gives you a lot of flexibility in tuning the sound to preferences.   Also, having a nice preamp will help reduce the noise floor.


----------



## nwavesailor

Yup, it's a great amp! 
No plans to replace my BB now paired with a Dave DAC.


----------



## DenverW

@nwavesailor any combos that I need to avoid that will overly stress the tubes or amps or might have a danger?


----------



## nwavesailor

That's more of a Justin question. 

The only tube he outright told me NOT to use was a Raytheon 5694 (with a 6SN7 adapter) that had WAY too much current draw.


----------



## DeweyCH

Hey all, would anyone have a recommendation of the best amp among the Mogwai SE, Forge, and Pendant SE for my primary quartet of headphones - Susvara, Rognir, VC, Auteur? Or is the answer "just wait and get a Bigger Ben you dingus"?


----------



## mfgillia

Does anyone have the latest version of the Bigger Ben who can comment on both the overall performance / experience and relative noise floor through the different taps?


----------



## DenverW

Following up from my earlier question regarding any of the tube I listed above being unsafe in any particular combination or format; I wrote an email to Justin and he let me know that any combination of those posted above is fine.

I can see why ZMF and Ampsandsound have collaborated, both companies have excellent customer service.  Justin wrote me back in a couple hours, on superbowl sunday.  If you're thinking of buying one of his amps his support shouldn't be a worry.


----------



## nwavesailor (Feb 14, 2022)

DenverW said:


> Following up from my earlier question regarding any of the tube I listed above being unsafe in any particular combination or format; I wrote an email to Justin and he let me know that any combination of those posted above is fine.
> 
> I can see why ZMF and Ampsandsound have collaborated, both companies have excellent customer service.  Justin wrote me back in a couple hours, on superbowl sunday.  If you're thinking of buying one of his amps his support shouldn't be a worry.


Yup, as busy as Justin is with ampsandsound, he is always accessable and a true good guy in this crazy audio biz!


----------



## DenverW

I have some 12bh7 and E80cc tubes around, I’ll have to give those a test with the 12au7 adapter.


----------



## nwavesailor

mfgillia said:


> Does anyone have the latest version of the Bigger Ben who can comment on both the overall performance / experience and relative noise floor through the different taps?


I have a newer version (?) of the BB that is now a little over 1 year old and I can only 'hear' a dead black background using the 3 taps I use most frequently, low z, 16 ohm, 32 ohm. This was not the case with my Pendant as I always had a little bit of hum depending on the tube combo.


----------



## Rhinomyte76 (Feb 14, 2022)

Anyone have further input on Bigger Ben V2 vs Rockwell beyond positive-feedback piece and MrHiFiReviews video?

If me2621a is lurking, I think he has owned both.

Looking to get one or the other but I can't audition either where I am.  I have narrowed it down to these based upon my love of the Kenzie, but want to eek out more sonic information with ZMF headphones while keeping toe-tapping love.

Thus far, the only distinctions that I can see via these posts are:

BB slam sacrificed for Rockwell texture
BB soundstage like being up on stage whereas Rockwell is further back like row 8 at a live show
BB has more power so going to have higher noise floor

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Rhinomyte76

Found this yesterday.  Pretty sweet - Agartha 2.0 en route.  Debuting at Can Jam!


----------



## ThanatosVI

Rhinomyte76 said:


> Found this yesterday.  Pretty sweet - Agartha 2.0 en route.  Debuting at Can Jam!



Sweet but No Update on the website yet


----------



## Rhinomyte76

Looks like the new one to me  https://ampsandsound.com/products/agartha
Price is 6300 and you can see the pots behind the power tubes to adjust noise


----------



## Rhinomyte76

Update:  Website has now been updated to make clear that the one listed is the Rev 2.

https://ampsandsound.com/products/agartha

Can't wait to see some reviews.


----------



## normie610 (Feb 22, 2022)

From Jude’s CanJam preview video, there’s a 300B amp that will also be introduced, the Red October. Will be good to see some impressions from CanJam.

Edit: go to minute 40:15 in the video.


----------



## Rhinomyte76 (Feb 22, 2022)

https://ampsandsound.com/collections/headphone-amps/products/red-october

12k.  Too rich for my blood.  But it looks pretty cool.  93lbs!  Damn.


----------



## normie610

Rhinomyte76 said:


> https://ampsandsound.com/collections/headphone-amps/products/red-october
> 
> 12k.  Too rich for my blood.  But it looks pretty cool.  93lbs!  Damn.


Wow!


----------



## DenverW

normie610 said:


> From Jude’s CanJam preview video, there’s a 300B amp that will also be introduced, the Red October. Will be good to see some impressions from CanJam.
> 
> Edit: go to minute 40:15 in the video.


Ah, yes, I’ve been on the hunt for that amp!

(First!)


----------



## normie610

DenverW said:


> Ah, yes, I’ve been on the hunt for that amp!
> 
> (First!)


Since the movie came out a long time ago? 😁


----------



## nwavesailor

The amp is 'only' 68#!

It is bigger than my BB but also a little more power to drive my susvara. Dare I venture into 300B tube land???


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

Rhinomyte76 said:


> https://ampsandsound.com/collections/headphone-amps/products/red-october
> 
> 12k.  Too rich for my blood.  But it looks pretty cool.  93lbs!  Damn.


93 pounds is a show stopper.  Cannot get that on a plane easily.   The Rockwell shipped to my house was over $600.   This is going to be $1000 for shipping.  And, since it's over 70 pounds, gotta pay a surcharge to get it on a plane as baggage.


----------



## nwavesailor

Nobody said it would be easy living in paradise @HiFiHawaii808!


----------



## normie610

nwavesailor said:


> The amp is 'only' 68#!
> 
> It is bigger than my BB but also a little more power to drive my susvara. Dare I venture into 300B tube land???


Go for it!! And tell us how it sounds 😁


----------



## nwavesailor




----------



## inmytaxi

Did you give any thought to C3G pentode for 300b drivers? I have a pair for the Lyr 3 and find them very clean and they are supposed to be 300b drivers?


----------



## DJJEZ

Anyone going to can jam NYC? Would love to hear some comparisons of the red October v nautilus


----------



## me2621a

Rhinomyte76 said:


> Anyone have further input on Bigger Ben V2 vs Rockwell beyond positive-feedback piece and MrHiFiReviews video?
> 
> If me2621a is lurking, I think he has owned both.
> 
> ...



The Bigger Ben (V2 or V1) is a more technically capable amp then the Rockwell. The Rockwell is more romantic. 

If you want to go searching for NOS tubes and enjoy doing it, the Rockwell is a very interesting amp because it’s output tubes are far cheaper in NOS form. 

The Rockwell is for someone who:
1. Loves classic 50’s and early 60’s sound. Warm, nice extension but smooth up top and a bit rounder on bottom. 

2. Loves 2a3 sound but wants cheaper NOS tubes the a 2a3, or loves 300b sound but wants affordable NOS tubes. 

3. Someone who loves DHTs. 
The Bigger Ben is for:
1. Someone who wants an incredibly technically capable amplifier. 

2. Is happy to use new tubes or spend serious money on NOS tubes

3. Doesn’t want to buy another amp, the Bigger Ben can really be an end game amp. 

4. Has a collection of or prefers 9 pins. 

Noise floors are similar, DHTs are noisier but the BB has more power so it more or less evens out. 

Personally if I had to choose 1, I would buy the BB, the Rockwell is an awesome amp, but I fell in love with it as a second amp not as my primary.


----------



## rmsanger

The red october sure is one great looking amp; appreciate all the work that A&S went with on this unit.  I also strongly prefer the inputs and output being placed where they are compared to most of the other models.    Def on my wish list to own one of these someday.


----------



## DJJEZ

Any impressions from canjam?


----------



## mab1376

DJJEZ said:


> Any impressions from canjam?







If I could afford this and the Abyss 1266 I was listening to, I would own it!


----------



## WillieB

nwavesailor said:


> Trying various input tubes, in place of the stock 6SLN, should make the single biggest difference for the BB. Most folks feel power tubes next and then the rectifier.
> 
> There are some nice vintage or perhaps real NOS Tung Sol 6SU7 or Mullard ECC35 both drop in replacements w/o the need for an adapter
> 
> ...


Any idea where the RFT 12AT7 with foil getter can be found? I found some with the O getter on thetubestore.com and ordered one to try, but I wonder how similar it will be. Very good/helpful info. I'm a little late to the party, but thanks for your post! I'm actually researching for my anticipated delivery of a Bigger Ben. I would assume that most of these tube choice options would still apply in the new Rev 2 since it comes with a 5751 that has a very similar gain factor to the formerly used 6SL7. Also, I have a lot of 6SN7s and have an adapter coming that would allow me to use some of my 8 pin tubes. Would there be any problem with this? Thanks!


----------



## Wes S (Mar 9, 2022)

WillieB said:


> Any idea where the RFT 12AT7 with foil getter can be found? I found some with the O getter on thetubestore.com and ordered one to try, but I wonder how similar it will be. Very good/helpful info. I'm a little late to the party, but thanks for your post! I'm actually researching for my anticipated delivery of a Bigger Ben. I would assume that most of these tube choice options would still apply in the new Rev 2 since it comes with a 5751 that has a very similar gain factor to the formerly used 6SL7. Also, I have a lot of 6SN7s and have an adapter coming that would allow me to use some of my 8 pin tubes. Would there be any problem with this? Thanks!


Here are some RFT foil getters in 12AT7/ECC81, and I know this seller is a member in this forum too.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Telefunken...p2349624.m46890.l6249&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RFT-ECC81-...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0


----------



## mfgillia




----------



## barbz127

Can anyone comment on the how well the verite open pairs with the bigger ben?

Ive had the Kenzie encore previously and had the odd noise issue with the sensitive VO; currently torn between moving to a Kenzie ovation or bigger ben.

Thankyou


----------



## DeweyCH

Can I use 6ar6 tubes in the Mogwai?


----------



## LegatoB (Mar 22, 2022)

I just finished listening to the Agartha 2021 after a few weeks without turning it on. It's incredible how the Agartha can paint such a wide scene. It's so expansive and thorough. It's like viewing the soundscape from 100 feet in the air or something. Its power is apparent and gives it solid dynamics. Really, really recommend it for soundstage lovers.

Matrix X-SPDIF 2 ->Yulong D18 -> ampsandsound Agartha 2021 -> Vérité Open Camphor Burl (Standard Cable)


----------



## LegatoB (Mar 31, 2022)

barbz127 said:


> Can anyone comment on the how well the verite open pairs with the bigger ben?
> 
> Ive had the Kenzie encore previously and had the odd noise issue with the sensitive VO; currently torn between moving to a Kenzie ovation or bigger ben.
> 
> Thankyou



I was listening to the VO Camphor Burl with the Bigger Ben Rev 2 earlier. I think the VO Blue Camphor Burl Stabilized (Erskine) sounds a little better with the power + dynamics of the Bigger Ben Rev 2 because of the VO Blue Camphor Burl Stabilized (Erskine) sense of space and air (these differences are much more subtle after listening with matching cables).

I'm more impressed with Agartha 2021 paired with the VO. It's a match made in heaven. You feel the rumble and impact of the notes rippling in a huge soundstage.

I am really enjoying Bigger Ben V2 with now with the VO after exclusively listening after a day. It's surprisingly detailed, with a full sound, and has rumble like no other.

The Bigger Ben V2 and the Agartha 2021 are really different types of amplifiers. I'm more impressed with the sound signature of the Agartha 2021 because to me, it's such a unique sound profile that I think it would be enjoyable to anyone who loves soundstage and detail. I think the Bigger Ben Rev 2, while sounding phenomenal in itself with very thorough, weighty notes, great detail, and dynamic; the soundstage cannot be compared to Agartha 2021, which is on another level. Within the soundstage of the Agartha, the impact of the notes ripples and you get a sensational, detailed experience with the notes, which is precise as it is full of "musical character". It's like a micro, contained rumble in the imaging of the notes within a humongous stage.

I've also been trying Bigger Ben Rev 2 with other headphones, and I like it paired with the Aeolus Stabilized (Vaskas) a lot. This is a headphone that really benefits from the rumble and it feels much more intimate than with the VO.

I was just looking thru the thread and saw that the Red October had been released and is also a 300B amplifier, and I'm already planning on getting it.


----------



## Malcolm Riverside

barbz127 said:


> Can anyone comment on the how well the verite open pairs with the bigger ben?
> 
> Ive had the Kenzie encore previously and had the odd noise issue with the sensitive VO; currently torn between moving to a Kenzie ovation or bigger ben.
> 
> Thankyou


I have the Bigger Ben v1 and it’s a phenomenal pairing with the Verite. Noise can be an issue of course, but I find you can bring it down considerably with lower gain tubes like a 6SN7 or 12AU7 (w/adapter) in place of the 6SL7, and/or some KT66’s (for instance) instead of KT88 power tubes. The rectifier makes a difference too. And the power coming out of your wall and nearby Wi-Fi signals can have an impact as well. 
All that said, if the Verite is the only headphone you plan to use, then the Bigger Ben may be a bit overpowered for your needs, especially if a bit of background noise bothers you. Throw an Abyss, LCD-4, Susvara or the like at the Bigger Ben and then you start to see what all that power is there for! Maybe a hybrid tube amp might be more your speed. Then you get the power, tube sound and a lot less noise.


----------



## TylersEclectic

My video on the ampsandsound Kenzie 2.0


----------



## soundchaos

TylersEclectic said:


> My video on the ampsandsound Kenzie 2.0



Great review! How did you find it paired with your VC?


----------



## DeweyCH

Got my 6AR6 --> 6L6 adapters today so I'm going to try out my Tung-Sol 6AR6 in my Mogwai SE.


----------



## DeweyCH

OK, so, to answer my question from earlier, the 6AR6 with adapters will indeed play with the Mogwai SE. And it sounds stellar. Bigger stage, more details compared to the Tung-Sol 6L6GCs I had in it before. Just an amazing performance boost.






I paid $60 for the pair of tubes and another $40 for the adapters, compared to prices of stuff like the 6550.


----------



## nwavesailor

The TS are looking good! 
The black chassis plate tends to show off just a little bit of dust..............


----------



## DeweyCH

nwavesailor said:


> The TS are looking good!
> The black chassis plate tends to show off just a little bit of dust..............


Just a tad


----------



## nwavesailor

I own a BB and I tend to accumulate a nice even layer on my plate as well!


----------



## DenverW

Hmmm if 6ar6 work for the Mogwai they should work for the bigger Ben.  Hmmm.  No compatibility problems?


----------



## nwavesailor (Mar 31, 2022)

Perhaps check compatibility with Justin to be sure. I guess there can always be better options but I'm pretty happy with GEC KT-88 or TT21 in the BB


----------



## WillieB (Mar 31, 2022)

Just a note for any of you with a revision 2 or any model ampsandsound that is using the 9 pin input tube and prefer a lower gain input tube, I decided to try the JJ ECC802S and it has quickly become one of my favorites. JJ lists it as a "high performance 12AU7" It has longer plates and was designed to drive larger power tubes, particularly 300B. So far I've tried with Siemens/Telefunken EL34 and also MESA 6L6GC and it is great with both. Dead silent noise floor(BB rev 2 is pretty much silent anyway unless something is acting up).


----------



## DenverW

nwavesailor said:


> Perhaps check compatibility with Justin to be sure. I guess there can always be better options but I'm pretty happy with GEC KT-88 or TT21 in the BB


I have some GEC KT66 on the way, which should be fun.

Tonight I'm trying a Mullard 10M gold pin 12AT7 that I stole from some poor guy on Ebay.  He couldn't read the writing and listed it as a "TOM" instead of 10M!  Thank you for your TOM tube, sir.


----------



## DeweyCH

DenverW said:


> Hmmm if 6ar6 work for the Mogwai they should work for the bigger Ben.  Hmmm.  No compatibility problems?


I don’t think so. They sound fantastic.


----------



## bdh

A question for you with amps that take the 6SL7 natively:  Are there any other tubes besides the 6SL7 and it's direct equivalents that can be safely used without adapters?  For example 6SN7 or 6BL7's or anything else?  Thanks.


----------



## nwavesailor (Apr 4, 2022)

6SN7, 6F8G with adapter, 2, 6J5 with adapter. A TON of 12AU7, 12AT7, 12AX7, and numerous variations of the 12A** types (6201, 7728, 7730, CV4043, B309) with adapter from octal base to 9 pin base. I am getting some 12BH7 to try this week. A2900 is OK at least in the BB amp.


----------



## DenverW

Silly question of the day.  If you're looking at the amp from the front with the volume pot on the left front corner, would the left kt88 tube be the left channel, and the right be the right channel?  It would make sense, but I don't want to open it up and check the wiring.   Thanks!  I'm identifying a tube issue and want to make sure I identify the correct tube based on the channels.


----------



## ampsandsound

Yes


----------



## DenverW

ampsandsound said:


> Yes


Thanks!  It's something that makes 100% sense, but sometimes you just have to ask .


----------



## nwavesailor

Are you enjoying your BB?

Listening  to my BB tonight with GEC KT-88, USAF 596 rectifier and Raytheon 12BH7 paired with Susvara…… crazy good!!!!


----------



## DenverW

nwavesailor said:


> Are you enjoying your BB?
> 
> Listening  to my BB tonight with GEC KT-88, USAF 596 rectifier and Raytheon 12BH7 paired with Susvara…… crazy good!!!!


Ah the Susvara, such a high cost temptation!  It seems to be the end game headphone for the BB.  I was listening last night on the auteur with the 596, gec/genelex kt66, and a good 6sn7 and was loving the overall tone and the magic this amp makes in the low end with power and clarity.  Love the amp.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (Apr 9, 2022)

DenverW said:


> Ah the Susvara, such a high cost temptation!  It seems to be the end game headphone for the BB.  I was listening last night on the auteur with the 596, gec/genelex kt66, and a good 6sn7 and was loving the overall tone and the magic this amp makes in the low end with power and clarity.  Love the amp.


It's worth picking up a Sus at some point especially when you have an amp that can properly drive it.    A used Sus is not much more $ than a TOTL ZMF headphone and it is a very complementary sound.   When you have a 5 tap tube amp, it really shows it versatility across headphones and when you start driving planars, tubes can really add a nice refinement to an already great sound.


----------



## gugges

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> It's worth picking up a Sus at some point especially when you have an amp that can properly drive it.    A used Sus is not much more $ than a TOTL ZMF headphone and it is a very complementary sound.   When you have a 5 tap tube amp, it really shows it versatility across headphones and when you start driving planars.    Tubes can really add a nice refinement to an already great sound.


What taps do you prefer for both the VC and Susvara? Also do you have to roll power tubes at all to get the most out of the Susvara?

I have the Mogwai SE and I’m wondering if my 6L6s with a 6SL7 would be enough to power the Susvara or if I would need KT88s


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

gugges said:


> What taps do you prefer for both the VC and Susvara? Also do you have to roll power tubes at all to get the most out of the Susvara?
> 
> I have the Mogwai SE and I’m wondering if my 6L6s with a 6SL7 would be enough to power the Susvara or if I would need KT88s


I have an Ampsandsound Rockwell.  I bought it because it was my favorite amp for driving my Verite Closed headphones.    I use both the 100 ohm and 300 ohm taps.    I would have to say that I prefer the 100 ohm tap because it has a lower noise floor.   If the noise floor were lower on the 300 ohm tap, I would prefer it.    I can tube roll to reduce the noise floor, but I am done with tube rolling after my Bottlehead crack.  

For Susvara, I find myself using the 8 ohm tap the most probably because it delivers the most power and the Rockwell is a bit light on power relative to the other A&S tube amps.  I did not own a Susvara when I bought it.  I was just thrilled when I found that it can drive it well and that it does.    The beauty of having multiple taps is you can slightly change the signature of a headphone by changing taps.  IF I want a bit more transparency in the sound, I move to a lower impedance tap.  If I want more bass response, I increase the impedance.   It provides a lot of flexibility.  So much so that i would highly recommend getting a tube amp with 5 taps.   It will dramatically increase your enjoyment pleasure if you like to experiment to fine tune sound in your system.


----------



## helljudgement

Hi I'm interested in knowing more about the Kenzie Ovation's sound profile(tone, transients, technicalities like layering and texture rendition etc) and it's noise performance especially on 100 and 300ohm taps. I'll be using this primarily with my VO and Atrium with occasional senns and focals headphones slot in from time to time. I've not found much info in general regarding this amp so I figure I'd just ask here. The higher output of other amps does concern me with noise performance so I think the Kenzie line up will probably best serve my usage given my tendency to prefer dynamics over other driver types and I'm kinda interested in the tubes used for this setup and how it sounds.


----------



## WillieB

gugges said:


> What taps do you prefer for both the VC and Susvara? Also do you have to roll power tubes at all to get the most out of the Susvara?
> 
> I have the Mogwai SE and I’m wondering if my 6L6s with a 6SL7 would be enough to power the Susvara or if I would need KT88s


I think you would benefit from the extra current that a KT88 or 6550 can provide, but if you like the sound better with the 6L6, then you might try the 7581. They have about 5W more output(rated) than the typical 6L6 and the Tung-Sol new production are pretty good. Also, the low sensitivity of the Sus may be assisted by using a higher Mu input stage than the 6SL7. This can give you a few db volume increase. You could use an adapter and try a 12AX7/ECC83/ECC803S. I prefer the ECC803S as it is a long plate 12AX7 that I think was originally designed for driving larger power tubes. Another possible option is the 12BZ7. At 3200 rated transconductance, it is twice the Mu of the 12AX7/ECC83, but it may overdrive the power tubes, causing distortion. I have not tried the 12BZ7 yet, but I have one on the way. I have a BB Rev2.


----------



## nwavesailor (Apr 10, 2022)

I've been using a Raytheon 12BZ7 with KT-88 in the BB and there is no distortion.

Sorry, I meant 12BH7


----------



## ampsandsound

helljudgement said:


> Hi I'm interested in knowing more about the Kenzie Ovation's sound profile(tone, transients, technicalities like layering and texture rendition etc) and it's noise performance especially on 100 and 300ohm taps. I'll be using this primarily with my VO and Atrium with occasional senns and focals headphones slot in from time to time. I've not found much info in general regarding this amp so I figure I'd just ask here. The higher output of other amps does concern me with noise performance so I think the Kenzie line up will probably best serve my usage given my tendency to prefer dynamics over other driver types and I'm kinda interested in the tubes used for this setup and how it sounds.


Its quite enough to be a preamp. The Ovation is very very quite other 300 and 100ohm tapps. The Rev 2 allows you to roll 12AU7, 12AT7, 5751 and 12AX7 without an adapter. Each has their own gain factor and impact on noise. In stock form it comes with a 5751 ~70% mu... If you feel you need it quite, drop to a 12AT7 or a 12Au7. If you want a more forward presentation and more power a 12AX7. 

You can also get 12B4 to 1626 adapters... nearly doubling the power but a more neutral sound. The 1626 is an inexpensive triode that is very very old. 
The Ovation and VC or Atrium is a great combo. Ive been able to listen to my VCs on my Kenzie Rev 2on the 300ohm tap and the Atrium as well. (Ovation does it better but Kenzie was on the desk).


----------



## ampsandsound

gugges said:


> What taps do you prefer for both the VC and Susvara? Also do you have to roll power tubes at all to get the most out of the Susvara?
> 
> I have the Mogwai SE and I’m wondering if my 6L6s with a 6SL7 would be enough to power the Susvara or if I would need KT88s


If wanting SuS... its strongly consider 6550, KT88 or KT90. 6550s are magic but I tend to go with KT88s as my go it. 
Also might want to get a 6SL7 to 12AX7 adapter... You'll get even more power.


----------



## WillieB

nwavesailor said:


> I've been using a Raytheon 12BZ7 with KT-88 in the BB and there is no distortion


How do you like the Raytheon 12BZ7? I ordered a 1960s Sylvania. I really like the 12BH7 in my 12AU7 amps and have even used it in the BB for a while. I like the fuller sound that long plates tend to give and it seems to almost make up for the loss in gain.


----------



## nwavesailor (Apr 10, 2022)

I've always liked the the Raytheon 'house sound' using their 6SN7 and 5687's over time so I bought the Raytheon 12BH7 based on the guys using them in the Pendant. I have many 12A** and variants as well as octal 6 volt tubes so I can't say what the very 'best' is since there are way more that sound good than just so-so in the BB. Like @DenverW I find the GEC KT-88,(KT-66 in his case) and USAF 596 pair well with quite a lot tubes.


----------



## WillieB

nwavesailor said:


> I've always liked the the Raytheon 'house sound' using their 6SN7 and 5687's over time so I bought the Raytheon 12BH7 based on the guys using them in the Pendant. I have many 12A** and variants as well as octal 6 volt tubes so I can't say what the very 'best' is since there are way more that sound good than just so-so in the BB. Like @DenverW I find the GEC KT-88,(KT-66 in his case) and USAF 596 pair well with quite a lot tubes.


That's great info. Thanks! I had looked at the 596 early on when I first ordered the amp, but haven't really went back and read about it since the amp arrived. I know they're getting rare these days, but I'll see if I can find one.


----------



## helljudgement

ampsandsound said:


> Its quite enough to be a preamp. The Ovation is very very quite other 300 and 100ohm tapps. The Rev 2 allows you to roll 12AU7, 12AT7, 5751 and 12AX7 without an adapter. Each has their own gain factor and impact on noise. In stock form it comes with a 5751 ~70% mu... If you feel you need it quite, drop to a 12AT7 or a 12Au7. If you want a more forward presentation and more power a 12AX7.
> 
> You can also get 12B4 to 1626 adapters... nearly doubling the power but a more neutral sound. The 1626 is an inexpensive triode that is very very old.
> The Ovation and VC or Atrium is a great combo. Ive been able to listen to my VCs on my Kenzie Rev 2on the 300ohm tap and the Atrium as well. (Ovation does it better but Kenzie was on the desk).


Thanks for the details. I'm intrigued by your products but unfortunately no way to hear them out in recent years due to the pandemic so hopefully I'll be able to in the near future. The Ovation and to an extent the Kenzie are the ones that intrigued me the most specifically due to it's lower output power which I find most suit my headphone usage. Are the Kenzies tonally the most neutral sounding out of your entire lineup of products?


----------



## nwavesailor

WillieB said:


> That's great info. Thanks! I had looked at the 596 early on when I first ordered the amp, but haven't really went back and read about it since the amp arrived. I know they're getting rare these days, but I'll see if I can find one.


There are some 4, 596 listed on the classified right now.


----------



## WillieB

nwavesailor said:


> I've always liked the the Raytheon 'house sound' using their 6SN7 and 5687's over time so I bought the Raytheon 12BH7 based on the guys using them in the Pendant. I have many 12A** and variants as well as octal 6 volt tubes so I can't say what the very 'best' is since there are way more that sound good than just so-so in the BB. Like @DenverW I find the GEC KT-88,(KT-66 in his case) and USAF 596 pair well with quite a lot tubes.


Well, I found a 596 so that will be nice to try in a couple of days. 

The 12BZ7, on the other hand, is a bust at this point. The Sylvania that arrived today is noisy as all get out with the 6L6GC. It has a loud hum. It's quieter on a lower impedance tap, but still unbearable. I tried it with KT88-WCs and it is bearable on the lowest 2 impedance taps. Spectacular mids there as well, but at a large cost in low end performance. I am listening with VO today so very sensitive HPs to start with. I have another 12BZ7 coming. It's NOS and American made, but that's all I know until it gets here. Ordered it from a TFA grab-bag for $10 last night just to see what I get. Either way, so far it looks like the 12BZ7 might be reserved for use with the larger of the power tubes, but it's possible that the one I have just has a bit of gas. I have it aging and will try it again in a day or so.

Also, I didn't feel like changing power tubes again so I just swapped in the ECC803s that I had been using before. It's the first try with it while using the Winged C KT88s. I have to say it's pretty good after listening for a couple of hours now.


----------



## DeweyCH

@ampsandsound is there any reason I should be cautious with a pair of 6AR6 in my Mogwai? I've got the proper adapters, and they sound OUTSTANDING. But my electrical engineering knowledge could maybe fill a thimble, so wanted to see if you had a recommendation one way or the other.


----------



## DenverW

I've never tried a 12bz7 but ran through quite a few 12bh7s in some bottlehead amps as a semi replacement for the 12au7.  There are some great slyvania types, and I liked a tung sol black tube.  Another alternative was the e80cc, which I liked more (phillips/amperex sq) but these are creeping up in price.  For my ZMF headphones I am enjoying some lower gain tubes like the 12au7 and 6sn7 on the bigger ben.  With more power I'm not even hitting 9 pm on the volume knob so I need to back it off a bit .


----------



## DeweyCH

gugges said:


> What taps do you prefer for both the VC and Susvara? Also do you have to roll power tubes at all to get the most out of the Susvara?
> 
> I have the Mogwai SE and I’m wondering if my 6L6s with a 6SL7 would be enough to power the Susvara or if I would need KT88s


They're plenty powerful. I'm listening right now to my Susvaras from the low-Z (32 ohm) tap on my Mogwai SE with a pair of Tung-Sol 6AR6 power tubes. It's phenomenal. Running at about 10 o'clock on the dial, and damn this sounds amazing. My other main driver for the Susvaras is my Burson Timekeeper 3iR from the speaker taps. It's better - 100 WPC at 8 ohms, no clue what that translates to at the Susvara's 60 ohms, but probably about 10 WPC? - but there's a lot of really excellent sound the Mogwai drives with these cans.

With the VCs I always use the 300 ohm output on the Mogwai. It is of course phenomenal.

I'll have to try some decent KT88 tubes, but with the 6AR6 there's more than enough power to drive the Susvaras to a great sound.


----------



## WillieB

DenverW said:


> I've never tried a 12bz7 but ran through quite a few 12bh7s in some bottlehead amps as a semi replacement for the 12au7.  There are some great slyvania types, and I liked a tung sol black tube.  Another alternative was the e80cc, which I liked more (phillips/amperex sq) but these are creeping up in price.  For my ZMF headphones I am enjoying some lower gain tubes like the 12au7 and 6sn7 on the bigger ben.  With more power I'm not even hitting 9 pm on the volume knob so I need to back it off a bit .


Is your BB a Rev2? I bought an adapter so that I could try some of my 6SN7 tubes, but the heater doesn't power. Perhaps the adapter is relying on pin 9 and the amp just uses 4&5 to connect the heaters in parallel or maybe something of the sort. I haven't tried extensively to trace it out. My question is can you recommend an adapter that is known to work with the Rev2?

Also, my amp is not loud at all at 9PM Even with 12AX7/ECC803 it is typically past 12 before it starts to get loud(and that's more like typical listening volume). I don't really listed that loud. I thought this was weird early on. It will still get insanely loud, but you'll be well around and closer to 3 o'clock before that happens. I am using a passive switcher box between my sources/Amps that converts XLR to RCA in this case. I wonder if I am losing voltage at the cross over to RCA. It's never been a thing with any of my other SE amps. They go through the same switch, but they also don't have input transformers. I haven't really questioned it up to this point, but your comment makes me wonder. I was definitely expecting more volume at first considering the power this thing has. Especially with sensitive HPs like the VO. I may just bypass the switch and see what I get.


----------



## bdh

helljudgement said:


> Hi I'm interested in knowing more about the Kenzie Ovation's sound profile(tone, transients, technicalities like layering and texture rendition etc) and it's noise performance especially on 100 and 300ohm taps. I'll be using this primarily with my VO and Atrium with occasional senns and focals headphones slot in from time to time. I've not found much info in general regarding this amp so I figure I'd just ask here. The higher output of other amps does concern me with noise performance so I think the Kenzie line up will probably best serve my usage given my tendency to prefer dynamics over other driver types and I'm kinda interested in the tubes used for this setup and how it sounds.



I posted a review of the Kenzie Ovation over on the Summit-Fi board a few days ago because I thought it should have representation there:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rev...ayon-ha-3-mkii-and-merason-frérot-dac.962911/

With the right tubes, it really is an amazing amp that will compete against anything.  Assuming you're not using headphones that need a lot of power.
With the right tubes, all of those profile aspects you listed are spot on.  Better than my Balancing Act I paid more for over a decade ago.

I was recently reading an article about the recent CanJam where AmpsAndSound amps tied for best sound of the show in that author's opinion:
https://headphone.guru/canjam-nyc-2022-coverage-sponsored-by-underwood-hifi-part-2/

Why so many people who buy these expensive things don't post reviews of them, I don't know.  It's the only way I know how to make purchasing decisions, since I can't hear anything before buying it.


----------



## DeweyCH

Can the Mogwai base be reversed? Mine is cracked at the two front corners. Nothing terrible or anything, but I'd like to flip it so they're in the back.


----------



## helljudgement

bdh said:


> I posted a review of the Kenzie Ovation over on the Summit-Fi board a few days ago because I thought it should have representation there:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/review-of-ampsandsound-kenzie-ovation-mogwai-se-ayon-ha-3-mkii-and-merason-frérot-dac.962911/
> 
> With the right tubes, it really is an amazing amp that will compete against anything.  Assuming you're not using headphones that need a lot of power.
> ...


Thanks for the feedback I’ll definitely find time read thru your thorough review. While I kinda understand why people might not have the ability to put their thoughts to words it is still disappointing to see very little impressions on a fairly popular brand of amps with as big a lineup as ampsandaound. 

The ovation and kenzie in general seem to be the ideal design for the dynamic only user crowd like me and you which is becoming rarer these days.


----------



## DenverW

WillieB said:


> Is your BB a Rev2? I bought an adapter so that I could try some of my 6SN7 tubes, but the heater doesn't power. Perhaps the adapter is relying on pin 9 and the amp just uses 4&5 to connect the heaters in parallel or maybe something of the sort. I haven't tried extensively to trace it out. My question is can you recommend an adapter that is known to work with the Rev2?
> 
> Also, my amp is not loud at all at 9PM Even with 12AX7/ECC803 it is typically past 12 before it starts to get loud(and that's more like typical listening volume). I don't really listed that loud. I thought this was weird early on. It will still get insanely loud, but you'll be well around and closer to 3 o'clock before that happens. I am using a passive switcher box between my sources/Amps that converts XLR to RCA in this case. I wonder if I am losing voltage at the cross over to RCA. It's never been a thing with any of my other SE amps. They go through the same switch, but they also don't have input transformers. I haven't really questioned it up to this point, but your comment makes me wonder. I was definitely expecting more volume at first considering the power this thing has. Especially with sensitive HPs like the VO. I may just bypass the switch and see what I get.


Yes, I’d say there is something going on there.  I have a rev 1, so I use 6sn7 natively, but have no issues with an adapter for 9 pin such as 12au7.  Also, with the exception of a hifiman planar I’m pretty much never over 10 pm without discomfort.  It’s louder than I like, even with kt66 and 12au7.  My auteur is at 8-9 pm.


----------



## DenverW

DeweyCH said:


> @ampsandsound is there any reason I should be cautious with a pair of 6AR6 in my Mogwai? I've got the proper adapters, and they sound OUTSTANDING. But my electrical engineering knowledge could maybe fill a thimble, so wanted to see if you had a recommendation one way or the other.


Any word?  I’m curious on this too.


----------



## gonintendo

Thoughts on pendant vs kenzie for Zmf headphones? (Atticus, Aeolus, Verite closed) plus LCD-2). I have the quicksilver amp currently, and while it’s great, it’s not really better enough than my GS-X mini to warrant keeping it. That’s making me lean towards the Kenzie as it would probably be the most different. But the pendant is also appealing for the pre out for my speakers, as well as that I already have some el84s and 12ax7 tubes


----------



## ampsandsound

DeweyCH said:


> Can the Mogwai base be reversed? Mine is cracked at the two front corners. Nothing terrible or anything, but I'd like to flip it so they're in the back.


Should be able to without issue... 4 bolts to confirm. We have cleared some cases.... just depends. But so worth a try...also some super glue and a clamp camp fix.


----------



## Rhinomyte76

I have an old 60s telefunken ECC801s that I use with a converter in my old Kenzie. 
Can anyone tell me whether this is compatible with the new input tube setup.  (ie. Bigger Ben 2 / Agartha 2).  I saw the list that appears to be expansive which had ECC803S on there, but not mine.   Thanks!!


----------



## ampsandsound

Rhinomyte76 said:


> I have an old 60s telefunken ECC801s that I use with a converter in my old Kenzie.
> Can anyone tell me whether this is compatible with the new input tube setup.  (ie. Bigger Ben 2 / Agartha 2).  I saw the list that appears to be expansive which had ECC803S on there, but not mine.   Thanks!!


Im not sure what you're asking. Are you asking is a ECC801 compatible with a Bigger Ben 2? - Sure it is.


----------



## Rhinomyte76

That's exactly what I was asking.  Thank you!!


----------



## Rhinomyte76

Ok, one more, and hopefully the last tube question.  I am trying to get tubes in order for a Agartha v2.
It has 2x 300b's.

The input is a 5751/6SL7.  Do I have to be wary of low gain variants (12AU7 w adapter / 6SN7) properly driving 2x 300bs?  Does the fact that I will be using ZMF's (ie, a little harder to drive) make a difference?

I have seen some posts on other sites about ECC802s being made for driving 300bs despite them being low noise (12AU7) and usually used for efficient headphones.  

Still learning on the tube front.  Thanks for the input (tube advice).


----------



## WillieB (Apr 24, 2022)

Sorry misunderstood your last post as I wasn't focusing on this part:


> The input is a 5751/6SL7. Do I have to be wary of low gain variants (12AU7 w adapter / 6SN7) properly driving 2x 300bs? Does the fact that I will be using ZMF's (ie, a little harder to drive) make a difference?


I would be interested to know as well. So is your amp going to take 9 pin native or the 8 pin?

I have BB Rev2 so it takes 9 pin. I tried using an adapter with some of my 6SN7, but the heaters didn't power up. I think the adapter just isn't compatible with the way the heaters are wired in the BB, but not sure. I wonder if anyone is using an Octal adapter with the BB Rev2 that works?


----------



## Rhinomyte76

WillieB said:


> Sorry misunderstood your last post as I wasn't focusing on this part:
> 
> I would be interested to know as well. So is your amp going to take 9 pin native or the 8 pin?
> 
> I have BB Rev2 so it takes 9 pin. I tried using an adapter with some of my 6SN7, but the heaters didn't power up. I think the adapter just isn't compatible with the way the heaters are wired in the BB, but not sure. I wonder if anyone is using an Octal adapter with the BB Rev2 that works?


9 pin native.  That's really good to know re: 6SN7.  I definitely want to avoid paying for an expensive NOS tube and not being able to use it.   May be worth emailing Justin on your issue.  He's always been very responsive.  I just hate to bother him if there's another Head-fier who can educate me.


----------



## WillieB

Rhinomyte76 said:


> 9 pin native.  That's really good to know re: 6SN7.  I definitely want to avoid paying for an expensive NOS tube and not being able to use it.   May be worth emailing Justin on your issue.  He's always been very responsive.  I just hate to bother him if there's another Head-fier who can educate me.


I actually intended to send him an email, but got sidetracked trying all of the 9 pin tube options. I'm glad your post reminded me of it, though.


----------



## ampsandsound

Hey everyone... hopefully most know Im a phone guy more than emails... I write a ton but dyslexia and public review of my replies encourages me to make responses really shot. 

There should be no reason a 6SN7 didn't light up... nothing fancy or different in how we do it... the filaments can handle it... maybe a bad adapter. 
That said... but why? There are sooooooooooooooooooooooo many alternate choice that would be better. For many who have an octal front end, moving with adpater to the 9pins (12AU7-12AX7) brings more drive and a reduced noise floor. If your amp can handle 9pins natively, youd be wisest to stay within that family and find 9pins that bring you joy rather than 8pins... but thats just me. With the right (correctly func) adapter you can do it.


----------



## ampsandsound

ECC99 for the driver of a 300b is likely what you meant. 
EC99s are pretty amazing tubes... yet it would work for a Agartha, but Id lean toward the 12AT7 or 12AX7... most (all) single ended amps, esp with a single gain stage sound better with more drive. Before getting exotic tubes you might be SHOCKED what a basic preamp can do to add to sonic bliss.


----------



## Rhinomyte76

ampsandsound said:


> ECC99 for the driver of a 300b is likely what you meant.
> EC99s are pretty amazing tubes... yet it would work for a Agartha, but Id lean toward the 12AT7 or 12AX7... most (all) single ended amps, esp with a single gain stage sound better with more drive. Before getting exotic tubes you might be SHOCKED what a basic preamp can do to add to sonic bliss.


Great.  Thank you.


----------



## WillieB

ampsandsound said:


> Hey everyone... hopefully most know Im a phone guy more than emails... I write a ton but dyslexia and public review of my replies encourages me to make responses really shot.
> 
> There should be no reason a 6SN7 didn't light up... nothing fancy or different in how we do it... the filaments can handle it... maybe a bad adapter.
> That said... but why? There are sooooooooooooooooooooooo many alternate choice that would be better. For many who have an octal front end, moving with adpater to the 9pins (12AU7-12AX7) brings more drive and a reduced noise floor. If your amp can handle 9pins natively, youd be wisest to stay within that family and find 9pins that bring you joy rather than 8pins... but thats just me. With the right (correctly func) adapter you can do it.


The only reason is that I have some really good 6SN7 around that I like the sound of. I thought I would give them a shot. It was an inexpensive adapter that I had from Ali. I checked that each pin had continuity to another, but did not verify pinout. Maybe I got lucky that it didn't damage anything if it is defective or wired wrong. I don't feel compelled to try it again at this point. LOL. At least not without a quality adapter. I've found several great options in 9pin anyway. Thanks!


----------



## DenverW

WillieB said:


> The only reason is that I have some really good 6SN7 around that I like the sound of. I thought I would give them a shot. It was an inexpensive adapter that I had from Ali. I checked that each pin had continuity to another, but did not verify pinout. Maybe I got lucky that it didn't damage anything if it is defective or wired wrong. I don't feel compelled to try it again at this point. LOL. At least not without a quality adapter. I've found several great options in 9pin anyway. Thanks!


I’m the same, but with a Rev 1 bigger Ben I’m going from 6sn7 to some good 12au7/12at7.  I’ve been getting my adapters via eBay from xulingmrs and been overall pretty pleased.  I think one issue ever.


----------



## nwavesailor (May 9, 2022)

DenverW said:


> I’m the same, but with a Rev 1 bigger Ben I’m going from 6sn7 to some good 12au7/12at7.  I’ve been getting my adapters via eBay from xulingmrs and been overall pretty pleased.  I think one issue ever.


Xulingmrs makes some good adapters and they are worth buying from her in China.
I have a few dual single plate tubes to 9 pin or octal and all have been fine. My only complaint was when I received one with smaller gauge pins and it didn’t fit as snuggler as the others.


----------



## duranxv

Any comparisons between the Nautilus and Red October so far?

@ampsandsound - How would you say the sound signatures of each differ?  Basically, is the Red October an improvement over the Nautilus? Or simply has a different sound signature with a bit more power?


----------



## barbz127

Anyone running their LCD-5 from an A&S amp and can comment on the pairing?


----------



## nwavesailor

I have a Bigger Ben and it sounds great paired with the LCD-5 as well as the Sol. P and Sus. 
Plenty of power with KT-88 even for the Sus.


----------



## barbz127

nwavesailor said:


> I have a Bigger Ben and it sounds great paired with the LCD-5 as well as the Sol. P and Sus.
> Plenty of power with KT-88 even for the Sus.


Thankyou
Gen 1 or 2?


----------



## nwavesailor

Gen 1 
I  use many 9 pin tubes with adapter as well as 8 pin octal bases


----------



## Malcolm Riverside

barbz127 said:


> Anyone running their LCD-5 from an A&S amp and can comment on the pairing?


I’ve only tried the LCD-5 with the a Bigger Ben amp and it’s a solid combination. But I think the low ohms of the LCD-5 (16) make it a somewhat awkward fit with the BB and probably other A&S amps. The various impedance outputs are a great feature of A&S amps and they’re a bit wasted with the LCD-5. I only use the 8ohm tap on my Bigger Ben for it because anything above that starts to compromise the clean sound of the LCD-5 with too much impedance. I had an LCD-4 for a while and if I didn’t have a solid state to use with my LCD-5 I’d probably go back to the that. At 200 ohms you can use 4 of the 5 impedance outputs on the Bigger Ben, Nautilus, etc, to great and varying effect with the LCD-4, and it’s so power-hungry you can throw a great variety of tubes at it without introducing much if any background hum. The LCD-5 has a sonic signature that’s more delicate shall we say than the 4. It’s all detail and space and clarity, whereas the 4 kind of hits you in the head like an awesome velvet brick, with it’s phenomenal bass, lushness and density, and it loves a powerful tube amp that lets it show all that off. So it’s not that the LCD-5 wouldn’t sound great out of most ampsandound amps, I just think they don’t play to its strengths as much as a similarly priced solid state amp would. For example I have the Niimbus US4+ as my solid state and its a killer combo with the LCD-5. I used to have the ampsandound Suolo monoblock amps and those were much lower powered and more mellow than the Bigger Ben. I bet those would sound phenomenal with the LCD-5, but alas they’re not made anymore.


----------



## TylersEclectic

soundchaos said:


> Great review! How did you find it paired with your VC?


I need to check Head-Fi more often ha... I loved it with my VC!


----------



## LegerMatt

TylersEclectic said:


> My video on the ampsandsound Kenzie 2.0



Awesome review!  I love my Kenzie.  I've been talking to just about upgrading, and I finally am going to - but I hate to see this amp go.


----------



## Rhinomyte76 (May 21, 2022)

[deleted by author]


----------



## LegatoB

My review on ampsandsound Agartha 2021:






After spending time with the ampsandsound Kenzie OG Rev. 2, wanting to experience more in the hobby, I decided that I would go for the ampsandsound Agartha.
After watching a video on the Agartha by TylersEclectic with Justin and Marcello, I became curious about the 300B sound.
The Agartha utilizes 300B Triodes, which have recently been able to be implemented in headphone audio utilizing a single gain stage, zero feedback, and careful grounding techniques to achieve no hum or noise.




Driving headphones primarily, I’ve spent around five months with the Agartha and feel I’ve gotten to experience the sound signature enough to describe my experience.
The Agartha has a classic, vintage look. Not a flashy look, something that I can appreciate because of the subtle look of the wood and metal. Something about it blends right into a room.
I’ve tried the Agartha with all of my headphones, but I think my first experience with the Agartha provided all the details of what I should expect.




After listening for a few seconds, immediately I could hear what made it different. The defining quality was the persistent, pleasant micro-rumble at the lower frequencies coupled with rich tonal timbre and the expansive sound stage.
It’s a very comprehensive sound, and trying them out with HiFiMan headphones has been a pleasant experience. The Agartha’s soundstage is wide, and the timbre is tonally rich; when coupled with the HE6SE V2’s ability to draw out the nuances and complexities of music thru its imaging, and combined with its own big soundstage, it’s a thorough sound that is incredibly wide and rich. The vocals are sweet and also have a lot of character. The vocalist in 80’s music seems to take center stage of a lively music festival. The Agartha seems to be a powerhouse that drives the HiFiMan HE6SE V2 very well.
The Agartha coupled with the HiFiMan Arya enhances the liquid timbre of the Arya, and it’s beautiful. With the Arya, the sound is emphatic with a more apparent slam and a thicker sound. It’s less detailed; still detailed, but with more emphasis on bass. The sound is endearing, and the Agartha’s staple tonal richness, and deep sound stage is maintained. Not to mention with the power and soundstage of the Agartha, the Arya also benefits in the height of the soundstage, trumping the HE6SE V2 in that regard.




The Agartha kind of reminds me reminds me of the Blue Hawaii Electrostatic Amplifier in terms of having a unique sound. It’s not exactly the same as the Blue Hawaii but still notably different and unique. It seems to have the ability to take any mid-fi headphone and make magic hi-fi glory.
The depth of its’ timbre is the base from which we experience the Agartha 2021. It slams, but with apparent power and ability to dig into the nuance; it is throughout the imaging and pervasive in the frequencies, and especially so at the lower bass frequencies, providing an amazing, persistent rumble.
The Agartha is an end-game amp for many, but I’ve found that ampsandsound have released the Red October! I tell ya, now that I’ve heard the Agartha, I have a feeling already the what an absolute unit, sound wise and quality wise, the Red October must be.
The Agartha brings everything to the table, leaving me with nothing but positive words for it. It’s definitely a style that is magical to me and an end-game solution for any enthusiast looking for top-tier sound performance.
The base attributes of Agartha apply to all headphones, I decided to use Mid-Fi headphones for my impressions to show that hi-fi - summit-fi is achievable with the ampsandsound Agartha 2021.


----------



## ampsandsound

Love the kind words... Thank you! The Buda in the background stole the show. .


----------



## WillieB

tkss4489 said:


> My review on ampsandsound Agartha 2021:


A great looking amp that is much more practical than many of this type I think. I am planning for the addition of a 300b of some sort. It's hard to deny this as my first choice. My BB has been amazing so far. Great write-up!


----------



## WillieB

I am considering adding a set of speakers to my headphone rig in my office. I have my BB Rev2 there. I would like some recommendations for speakers that work well with the BB. It's not a big room so I would think a smaller set of speakers would do the trick.


----------



## barbz127

WillieB said:


> I am considering adding a set of speakers to my headphone rig in my office. I have my BB Rev2 there. I would like some recommendations for speakers that work well with the BB. It's not a big room so I would think a smaller set of speakers would do the trick.


If you can grab them second hand the zu union cubes are great


----------



## ampsandsound

I think KEF LS50s meta are great in near field. 
I think the Falcon LS3/5a is insanely good and represents an audiophile benchmark. 
ZU Omens would be very good choice.
Anything from Omega speakers


----------



## WillieB

barbz127 said:


> If you can grab them second hand the zu union cubes are great





ampsandsound said:


> I think KEF LS50s meta are great in near field.
> I think the Falcon LS3/5a is insanely good and represents an audiophile benchmark.
> ZU Omens would be very good choice.
> Anything from Omega speakers


Great suggestions all! I've always been amazed by the KEF LS50s. I've never heard anything from Falcon, but those are interesting as well. I have to admit, though, that I already had my eye on the Omens. Those would fit perfectly in the space I have created since I got serious about adding speakers. Thanks!


----------



## gonintendo

Finally getting to listen to my new Mogwai SE, what a lovely unit! Will post impressions in a few days but so far I’m blown away!


----------



## jonathan c

ampsandsound said:


> I think KEF LS50s meta are great in near field.
> I think the Falcon LS3/5a is insanely good and represents an audiophile benchmark.
> ZU Omens would be very good choice.
> Anything from Omega speakers


Complete agreement on Falcon Acoustic LS3/5a !!  An up-to-date take on the classic mini-monitor which is improved without besmirching the ‘soul’ of the original.


----------



## WillieB

Very nice! Enjoy!


----------



## jeffarm13

I'm glad to see we are keeping Justin busy.  It's been the better part of a decade since I've posted, but recently I've had the privilege of owning a couple of amps from ampsandsound.  First, the ZMF-branded Pendant SE, which was amazing in its own right.  And, as of today, the Rockwell Rev 2.  It is very early on, of course, but with about 3 hours in, the feeling that I get from the Rockwell is just that it is "more" than the Pendant SE - more depth of field, more realistic tone, more holographic. More of almost everything - perhaps the Pendant has just that slightest extra bit of slam, but the jury is out on that.  This is, of course, very early in the process.  What I can say is that this sounds phenomenal.  I'll post more impressions as I settle in with the Rockwell, but this is amazing out of the gate on every level.  It doesn't hurt that Justin is a top-notch guy, either.

Obligatory (bad) pictures:


----------



## gonintendo

I don't feel ready to post a full set of impressions yet, but so far the two most impressive aspects of the mogwai SE have been:
1. Just how deep the bass digs. More than any other headphone listening experience I've had, the Mogwai SE with my ZMF Aeolus and Verite Closed feels incredibly full and weighty in the bass. While I love my ZMFs, I always found myself wishing the bass on them was more like on my LCD-2s on solid state. With the Mogwai SE, they feel like they dig even deeper in to the sub bass!
2. The sense of dynamics and tactility. I'll be listening to a quiet passage, and know that an intense part is coming up, and usually it's like medium engaging (better on my ZMFs than any other cans I've heard, but not as good as a big speaker system), but on the Mogwai my ZMFs just slam like crazy. Also things like guitar strums sound super tactile and percussive, but without being fatiguing. On my VCs on solid state, this aspect could be a bit fatiguing, and on my Aeolus I sometimes wanted a bit more. Somehow both sets of cans have trended towards feeling more realistic on the Mogwai.

I have been finding myself enjoying the 300 ohm jack on my VCs and the 8 and 32 ohm jacks on my Aeolus the most.


----------



## gonintendo

Noise floor is impressively low for zero feedback, on my VCs I can barely hear it on the 300ohm tap at listening volumes, and it's not audible when actually playing audio. On my Aeolus it's inaudible on all taps


----------



## DenverW (Jun 2, 2022)

Any recommendations for great synergy with a dac for the bigger Ben?   I’m currently using a fantastic audio mirror tubadour iii se and love it, but may need to change due to a system issue (no fault of the dac).  Yggdrasil?  Morpheus? Holo spring 2?  Usb functionality is key, I’m running from a pc.


----------



## jeffarm13

DenverW said:


> Any recommendations for great synergy with a dac for the bigger Ben?   I’m currently using a fantastic audio mirror tubadour iii se and love it, but may need to change due to a system issue (no fault of the dac).  Yggdrasil?  Morpheus? Holo spring 2?  Usb functionality is key, I’m running from a pc.


I don't have the Big Ben, but both A&S amps I do have sound great with the Yggy OG.  I love my Morpheus, but I run it with the I2S module paired with the Hermes streamer, so cannot comment on its USB implementation.  Have you run your Bifrost 2 in your setup?  Assuming it is multibit, BF 2 will get you in the ballpark of the Yggy OG sound, perhaps a little warmer and less refined, but the family resemblance is there. It may give you an inkling as to whether that general sound works for you in that system, anyway.


----------



## gonintendo

DenverW said:


> Any recommendations for great synergy with a dac for the bigger Ben?   I’m currently using a fantastic audio mirror tubadour iii se and love it, but may need to change due to a system issue (no fault of the dac).  Yggdrasil?  Morpheus? Holo spring 2?  Usb functionality is key, I’m running from a pc.


I’ve only listened to my Mogwai on the Qutest and ADI-2, but I’d say out of the two of those the Qutest is a great match for Justin’s amps. Its strengths complement Justin’s amps and Justin’s amps’ strengths complement it IMO (it’s maybe lacking a bit of midrange weight, which Justin’s amps have gobs of, and its excellent spatialization kind of lets you have the best of both worlds, both intimate and huge staging)
It’s also the cheapest chord DAC that has galvanically isolated USB and I can’t tell any huge differences between my streamer and USB on it (there’s a slight improvement but not as big as on the RME).


----------



## nwavesailor

I went from a Qutest with the Pendant then a TT2 w/ m scaler. Upgraded to the BB and then added the Dave. I really liked the Qutest and TT2 but love the additional charity and detail with the Dave.


----------



## DenverW

nwavesailor said:


> I went from a Qutest with the Pendant then a TT2 w/ m scaler. Upgraded to the BB and then added the Dave. I really liked the Qutest and TT2 but love the additional charity and detail with the Dave.


Chord is getting some love, thank you both for the suggestion.  The TT2 and Dave are a bit more than I'm looking for atm, but the qutest is an option.  Appreciate it, and open to other comments .


----------



## bdh

DenverW said:


> Chord is getting some love, thank you both for the suggestion.  The TT2 and Dave are a bit more than I'm looking for atm, but the qutest is an option.  Appreciate it, and open to other comments .



I just sold my TT2, as there was no point in listening to it anymore since I got the Merason Frerot.  It, with the matching linear power supply, costs just over what the Qutest does.


----------



## gugges

Has people seen this? Western Electric is looking into expanding their tube production beyond the 300B. Make sure to fill it out if you're interested so they can gauge demand!
https://www.westernelectric.com/expand


----------



## DenverW

gugges said:


> Has people seen this? Western Electric is looking into expanding their tube production beyond the 300B. Make sure to fill it out if you're interested so they can gauge demand!
> https://www.westernelectric.com/expand


Filled out!  Thanks for the heads up .


----------



## WillieB

DenverW said:


> Filled out!  Thanks for the heads up


Yeah they put that out there a couple days after New Sensor announced that production was being shut down until further notice. They got a good response from what I hear so they are well underway at this point, at least I hope.


----------



## DenverW

WillieB said:


> Yeah they put that out there a couple days after New Sensor announced that production was being shut down until further notice. They got a good response from what I hear so they are well underway at this point, at least I hope.


Seeing kt88, 6l6, and 12ax7 on the list makes me a bit slobbery with greed.


----------



## WillieB

DenverW said:


> Seeing kt88, 6l6, and 12ax7 on the list makes me a bit slobbery with greed.


It will be nice to have some modern, American made varieties of these tubes. I would also like to see a KT77 and 6550. Kinkless tetrodes are definitely right up my alley for non-triode power stages. Of course I hope they bring back all of the big triodes too.


----------



## jurumal (Jun 13, 2022)

I had the pleasure of stopping at the Ampsandsound table at T.H.E. Show this weekend and have detailed some quick impressions below.


_LeeLoo_

LeeLoo is a product of the latest collab with Headphones.com and it was paired with the HD 800S. The pairing sounded neutral to my ears and it was notably inoffensive in anyway. During previous listens, I found the treble on the 800S offensive at times, but paired with the LeeLoo I didn't have that issue. It was incredibly detailed but added a touch fun (a descriptor I don't often find associated with 800S).


_Forge and LeeLoo. A&S x Headphones.com collab amps._

I love the Forge. So much so that I purchased one shortly after I heard the 32/300 variant at CanJam SoCal last year. It's just a wonderfully dynamic amp that reaches to soul of the music and is able to deliver it to you with all the microdetails. It seemed to have more soundstage width to my ears compared to LeeLoo but I was also using an HE-6 (OG 4-screw EP) which @Netforce graciously provided for demo. Yes, Forge can drive it. And yes, it can do it to satisfaction. One last thing I want to mention is that I've had my fiancé listen to some of the latest by "T-Sweezy" on the Forge using my VO. She told me it was creepy how realistic Taylor sounded on it.


_Kenzie Ovation_

Ampsandsound Chief Mensch Justin described it perfectly when he compared the synergy of ZMF and Ovation to peanut butter and jelly. Indeed, hands down the Ovation was the best pairing with my VO. Compared to the Forge, it brought more density/body to the images without clouding anything up while focusing the image even further for greater detail. It's doing this while delivering macrodynamics galore. This one's a must-hear for ZMF owners.


_Jinx_

Jinx features the ability to drive 6V6 tubes which makes this a great amp for NOS tube enthusiasts. I got to pair it with the VO and the HE6SE. The Hilton hotel unfortunately had dirty power which was audible when I was listening to the Jinx. Fortunately, as soon as I hit play, the dirty mains noise was quickly forgotten. "Rich" is the word that comes to mind when listening to this headphone. It was absolutely rich in tonality and macrodynamics. And yes, these descriptors came to mind when listening with the HE6SE. This amp was the black sheep (sonically) of the lineup for me due to the overt richness. If the LeeLoo prioritizes detail with added fun, the Jinx does slam (*_ahem*_, I mean fun) with added detail.


_Bigger Ben_

Any description I provide won't do the Bigger Ben any justice since I wasn't able to get a good impression due to the hotel mains noise.


_Nautilus_

The word "rich" comes to mind. Alright jokes aside, it was undeniably the most detailed and natural sounding amp in the ENTIRE room. Not sure what else to add here. It's a must-hear.

Thanks to @Netforce, @Sebastien Chiu, and Chief Mensch @ampsandsound Justin for hosting the tables. Hope to get some 300B love at CanJam SoCal later this year


----------



## gonintendo

Some more thoughts on the mogwai SE v2:




I want to write more on my experience with this amp so far, but it's honestly so addicting to listen to that any spare time I have I want to spend just listening to it, so I'll keep this short. The amp is incredible. The bass on it is like nothing I've heard with my ZMFs. I've listened to some pretty nice amps, SS and tube, and this just blows everything out of the water. There's a bit more midbass kick especially on the higher impedance jacks, but what really impresses me is just how deep this thing digs with dynamic, one area my ZMFs left me wanting a bit more was in the sub bass (compared to planars mostly), but with the mogwai I'm completely satisfied. Everything has immense weight, but it's also so well controlled. My Aeolus went from a relatively polite headphone with a bit of a kick, to a headphone that just kicks like a mule in the bass. And while the higher impedances do boost bass levels, it's nothing like anything I've been able to achieve with EQ. And I actually still prefer the Aeolus on the 32 ohm tap as it has a decent amount of bass level out of the box, but across all outputs it just hits so hard on this amp. It's truly transformed and I love it even more than I did before, which is saying a lot! The midrange is the other standout, vocals are intimate and rich, but without sacrificing any staging. I don't know how it does it but this amp just gives everything to you. No compromises (except maybe a slight noise floor on the 300 ohm tap, I'll get into that later). The VC is also a dream to listen to on this amp. While it's not as big of a transformation as the Aeolus, it also benefited quite a bit in the bass, and the biggest improvement on these cans is a bit more vocal intimacy, which is the main thing I miss on them from the Aeolus. My Audeze LCD-2s were the least transformed as expected, but they still sounded great on the 8ohm tap, and did still benefit from that extra bit of midrange richness this amp provides.  

One note: this amp is super powerful. I find the volume pot a bit hard to use with my medium/high sensitivity cans on its own, if I'm not totally rocking out I sometimes have to lower it into the rage where channel imbalance becomes an issue on the 300ohm tap. This is not an issue for me as I have a passive pre-amp in front of the amp but just a heads up.  

Justin was incredibly helpful throughout the whole process, he talked me through his product line and helped me get the exact amp I wanted. I also broke the amp the first day I got it (I know I was super sad) by inserting one of the 6L6GC tubes cocked by one pin, causing the whole left channel to go out. I was able to send the amp to Justin and he repaired it for me in no time. 
As a PSA: *be careful when inserting tubes *these new production tubes have super thin plastic guide pins that are very easy to break, and they require a decent amount of force to insert. Follow Justin's instructions of wiggling rather than pushing the tube in if possible. If you think it could be off, just check it. Otherwise you could have to face your amp going up in smoke like mine did. 

As for tubes, the amp comes with a great set of tubes. I've tried rolling a few tubes: 
A vintage RCA rectifier which I found made a small but noticeable improvement
A vintage Sylvania 5751 input tube, pretty big improvement in clarity over JJ with no loss of warmth 
New production Tung-Sol 6L6GC power tubes -> low noise but not as musical as the bundled JJs. I found the mids were a bit more withdrawn and the bass was not as punchy. Possibly just bad synergy with my input tube. 
Vintage Tung-Sol 6L6GC power tubes -> actually pretty similar to the new production ones signature wise, but a bit more clarity and smoothness. But I still didn't love the signature with my setup
New production JJ 6L6GC -> I have two sets of these, the first set which originally came with the amp that I repaired with a new guide pin from tubesandmore.com which sound absolutely phenomenal, deep visceral bass, rich intimate mids, smooth highs. The second pair I asked Justin to send me in case I couldn't fix the first pair and while they have the same sound as the first pair, the noise floor is a bit more noticeable (they're kind of buzzy). Over all, these are my favorite power tubes I've tried with the mogwai so far, and Justin made a great choice bundling them. 
If you want to roll tubes with this amp I'd probably focus on the input tube, or on really special power tubes.


----------



## DJJEZ (Jun 15, 2022)

New amp day for me - The red october.

Huge shout out to Justin @ampsandsound  , such a cool and passionate dude, was an absolute pleasure to deal with.

This thing sounds insane, has the best midrange of any amp I've ever heard. I've already rolled the gold lion stock 300B's with Western electric 300B's and there is noticeably better resolution/detail and imaging.

I will talk about the red october more once I've spent more time with it and tried all my gear with it but first impressions are extremely impressive.


----------



## DenverW

Amazing!  You’re a lucky guy


----------



## WillieB

WillieB said:


> Great suggestions all! I've always been amazed by the KEF LS50s. I've never heard anything from Falcon, but those are interesting as well. I have to admit, though, that I already had my eye on the Omens. Those would fit perfectly in the space I have created since I got serious about adding speakers. Thanks!


The Zu Omen Mk II have arrived and I must say they are excellent in this small space. It's as if they were made for the Bigger Ben. Tonality and vocals are just so perfect. These paint the air in the room with music and the speakers just disappear. I must say that this turned out better than I expected. 

Unfortunately, FedEx in my area is a nightmare and are incapable of delivering a package over 10lbs without it being damaged. My speakers got their famous treatment and arrived with a crushed in corner on each. There were 4 new sets of American Walnut Omen Mk II's left when I ordered mine. There was one new set by the time mine shipped and they are sending those to replace my damaged set. So I think they have one black set left. I hope the replacements make it here. They have a better chance since they are coming UPS. This model, being ported out the bottom, is ideal for my situation/room, the new model that replaces the Omen is ported out the back. Anyway, I really appreciate the recommendations @ampsandsound !!!


----------



## TylersEclectic

LegerMatt said:


> Awesome review!  I love my Kenzie.  I've been talking to just about upgrading, and I finally am going to - but I hate to see this amp go.


Nice!! What are you upgrading to?


----------



## Rhinomyte76

gonintendo said:


> Some more thoughts on the mogwai SE v2:
> 
> I want to write more on my experience with this amp so far, but it's honestly so addicting to listen to that any spare time I have I want to spend just listening to it, so I'll keep this short. The amp is incredible. The bass on it is like nothing I've heard with my ZMFs. I've listened to some pretty nice amps, SS and tube, and this just blows everything out of the water. There's a bit more midbass kick especially on the higher impedance jacks, but what really impresses me is just how deep this thing digs with dynamic, one area my ZMFs left me wanting a bit more was in the sub bass (compared to planars mostly), but with the mogwai I'm completely satisfied. Everything has immense weight, but it's also so well controlled. My Aeolus went from a relatively polite headphone with a bit of a kick, to a headphone that just kicks like a mule in the bass. And while the higher impedances do boost bass levels, it's nothing like anything I've been able to achieve with EQ. And I actually still prefer the Aeolus on the 32 ohm tap as it has a decent amount of bass level out of the box, but across all outputs it just hits so hard on this amp. It's truly transformed and I love it even more than I did before, which is saying a lot! The midrange is the other standout, vocals are intimate and rich, but without sacrificing any staging. I don't know how it does it but this amp just gives everything to you. No compromises (except maybe a slight noise floor on the 300 ohm tap, I'll get into that later). The VC is also a dream to listen to on this amp. While it's not as big of a transformation as the Aeolus, it also benefited quite a bit in the bass, and the biggest improvement on these cans is a bit more vocal intimacy, which is the main thing I miss on them from the Aeolus. My Audeze LCD-2s were the least transformed as expected, but they still sounded great on the 8ohm tap, and did still benefit from that extra bit of midrange richness this amp provides.
> 
> ...


Re pins - a while back I got a rare tube with jacked up pins that I was very concerned about.  Got one of these and now I use it before putting any tubes in just in case. It works great.  https://static.wixstatic.com/media/...a519785fde43da6b5bf~mv2_d_2560_2560_s_4_2.jpg


----------



## Rhinomyte76

DenverW said:


> Chord is getting some love, thank you both for the suggestion.  The TT2 and Dave are a bit more than I'm looking for atm, but the qutest is an option.  Appreciate it, and open to other comments .


Another up vote for qutest.  It works great with my original run Kenzie, and I have no intention of changing up once my Agartha arrives.


----------



## DenverW (Jun 17, 2022)

Rhinomyte76 said:


> Another up vote for qutest.  It works great with my original run Kenzie, and I have no intention of changing up once my Agartha arrives.


I’ve been doing some head to head with the qutest and a Morpheus with mqa I’ve been lended.  I’ll have my audio mirror tubadour back this weekend as well.

For the qutest, I’m finding it a bit harsh in the upper mids and treble.  I’ve got an after market ifi ipower x coming today from Amazon, as from what I’m reading that may help.  I’ll have a better idea how it’s doing as early as tomorrow.

Edit: I've switched the qutest to a lower output (1v), and added the ifi X.  It might be placebo, but I feel that a lot of the harshness is lessened, enough that I'm more comfortable listening, even at higher volume levels.  Doing some A/B with the sonnet morpheus.  The low end on the qutest seems lacking in oomph.  A little more precision and separation overall with the qutest, more weight on the notes with the morpheus.


----------



## ozziegurkan

Going to be a _*first-time*_ owner of an ampsandsound: Bigger Ben V2. It's on its way. Justin has been an amazing help in picking this one for my setup. He is so amazingly helpful despite his busy life. What an amazing customer service experience!

My setup:
- Headphones: Susvara, Utopia, Stellia, Verite Closed, Arya Stealth, LCD-X 2021, Aeon 2 Noire, Meze Liric.
- DACs: Qutest, Hugo 2, Ares 2, Yggy LIM
- Streamers: Zen Stream, MicroRendu, Allo UsBridge, RoonPi, 2Go
- Source: Roon Nucleus
- Pre-amps: Schiit Freya+
- Amps: Ferrum OOR+Hypsos, Pro iCAN Signature, Burson Soloist 3X GT, Jot2, A90
- FOR SALE: WooAudio WA6SE Gen 2


----------



## DenverW

ozziegurkan said:


> Going to be a _*first-time*_ owner of an ampsandsound: Bigger Ben V2. It's on its way. Justin has been an amazing help in picking this one for my setup. He is so amazingly helpful despite his busy life. What an amazing customer service experience!
> 
> My setup:
> - Headphones: Susvara, Utopia, Stellia, Verite Closed, Arya Stealth, LCD-X 2021, Aeon 2 Noire, Meze Liric.
> ...



Be great to hear your DAC impressions with the BBv2.  I've tried the qutest and was looking at the LIM.


----------



## DJJEZ

Zeos got his hands on the nautilus


----------



## duranxv

Going to be a good listening session tonight with the Nautilus


----------



## duranxv (Jun 29, 2022)

So I've been hooked on listening to the Nautilus, and I just have to say one thing: WOW.

Before I go into some concise impressions, let me preface by saying this is the best tube amp I've ever heard.  The headphone I chose to use is the DCA Stealth because of its faithful reproduction of music.  A common criticism of the headphone is that it lacks dynamics and bass, but that's because it needs to be paired with the right amp that is well designed and powerful.  Therefore, if an amp can make these headphones sound alive and fun, then that's a testament to the quality of the amp.  Safe to say, the Nautilus drove the Stealth wonderfully.  After listening at different impedances, I found 32 ohms sounded the best to my ears.  I like the fact that you can change your desired sound with the dedicated impedances.

Music sounds incredibly natural and really gives you a sense that you're there.  I put the amp through multiple genres of music, even synthwave for giggles.  There wasn't a genre that tripped the amp up.  Everything sounded great.  Bass and sub-bass was tight and with great extension, dynamics and detail retrieval were excellent, and everything sounded big and enveloping.  Transients were quick and had a solid-stake like quality.  I honestly can't think of any cons to this amp sonically.  It has an incredibly low noise floor, and plenty of power.  Although I don't use speakers, I like the fact it that it has that versatility anyway.  I almost always EQ headphones, but with this amp, I didn't feel the need to.  That alone surprised me greatly.

Depending on what you listen to, you could either relax with this amp, or tap your foot to the music with excitement.  The fact it sounds this good with the stock tubes makes me excited for the possibilities of some tube rolling with this amp. 

In terms of physical design, I think my only gripe would be with the locking mechanisms on the front ports.  It does make it a bit cumbersome to switch from one tap to another.  If there's ever a Nautilus v2 (perhaps it could be called Poseidon to keep with the nautical theme, lol), I'd love to see if some pre-amp capability could be built in.  I'm imagining using this as a pre-amp into a well engineered high-end solid state like the upcoming Zahl HM1.  Ah well, a man could dream 

Huge kudos to Justin @ampsandsound for this impressive amplifier, and a big thanks for answering my many questions before I pulled the trigger on this amp   It wasn't cheap, but then again, no end-game piece of equipment would be.  This is something you buy for life (or at least until the next shiny new thing dazzles one's eyes) 

For reference, the chain used was PC -> Holo Spring 3 KTE -> Loki Max (put into bypass mode to skip EQ) -> Nautilus -> DCA Stealth


----------



## duranxv

Referring to tube rolling in my post above, for the Nautilus owners here - what "upgrade" (and I use the term loosely here) tubes do you feel elevated your experience with the Nautilus to a whole new level in terms of bass, dynamics, soundstage and detail/clarity?


----------



## jeffarm13

Now that I’ve had the Rockwell Rev. 2 for several weeks, I thought I’d post some more detailed impressions. I don’t think Amps and Sound and Justin get the attention they deserve. This is the second A&S I’ve had (I’m coming from the Pendant SE) and they have both been wonderful. Justin is, as many have noted, amazingly helpful and is very giving of his time.

You can see my current set up in my sig – I try to spend roughly equal time with the Yggy OG and the Sonnet Morpheus. I have mostly been listening to the ZMF Verite Open and ZMF Atrium lately. I’ve tried to listen at various times of day, in different moods, different stress levels, etc. Just living with it basically. I listen to mostly jazz, rock, metal, and “Americana” (isn’t that folk?). I do not pretend to have bat-like hearing and do not claim to be an expert. I’ve owned or heard my share of amps over the years, from entry level Fiio stuff on up through the Schiit Rag 2 and the Pendant SE.

The tubes are the vintage (1951) Sylvania 6B4G tubes that Justin was generous enough to include, with a NOS Sylvania rectifier and a new Genalex Gold Lion 12AX7 – the latter two being the extent of the rolling I’ve done to date. I do have several tubes that I will probably get around to rolling in the future, but when I find something I like, I tend to stick with it for a while.

To say the Rockwell is “something I like” would be underselling it. A lot. This amp is amazing. Coming from the Pendant, I noted in my initial impressions that the Rockwell may not have that last bit of slam that the Pendant SE has. I think that will be my final answer on that topic, but here’s the deal: The Rockwell doesn’t lack slam – if it’s in the mix to have the snare “snap” at you or to have thundering toms, the Rockwell doesn’t disappoint – references here include the ZZ Top remasters (especially Tres Hombres, El Loco and Deguello), The Red Hot Chili Peppers’ Blood Sugar Sex Magik and most Mike Portnoy-era Dream Theater. For you jazz fans, check Max Roach’s work on Sonny Rollins’ Saxophone Colossus or Art Blakey’s Drum Thunder Suite on Moanin’. I do tend to associate “slam” with percussion. From a different perspective, the Pendant SE may be a little sharp in the transients in comparison, which may contribute to a sense of slam or snap when the music is not necessarily mastered for that – this is not intended as a criticism, merely a subjective observation. I remain a huge fan of the Pendant.

That took more words than I had hoped and this isn’t supposed to be a Rockwell vs. Pendant shoot-out. There is definitely a family resemblance in their respective sound, but unless you prioritize sharp transients (much) higher than anything else, there isn’t much to shoot out: the Rockwell is the superior amp (as it should be given the price differential).

The Rockwell sounds natural, more natural than any amp I have ever heard, and effortless. I think some others may describe this as “romantic.” I can understand using that as a descriptor, but, to me, it has connotations of a syrup-y sound, which is not something I get from the Rockwell, at all, in my system – even with the NOS Morpheus. The Rockwell does have the warmth one expects from a direct-heated triode amplifier (and the absolutely seductive mids that come with it), but it is in no way gooey or thick. When music is fast, the Rockwell has no problems keeping up. Listening to Booker Little run through eighth and sixteenth notes at full speed is a treat. As well, complicated passages don’t get smeared. It’s not “thick” or “thin”; everything simply sounds as it should and it is presented in a holographic way that is difficult to describe. There are times when it feels like the music just envelops me – a neat and addictive trick for headphone listening.

It is very easy with this amp to get lost in the music. The warmth invites you in and three hours have passed before you notice it. It is much easier to get lost in it than critique it – I don’t have any detailed analyses of its high, mids and lows or its imaging or its separation. I will say that nothing is lacking and nothing dominates. Vocals are astounding (Diana Krall’s The Girl in the Other Room come to mind) and are clearly a strength, but not in a way that that detracts from the Rockwell’s overarching coherence. I do not ever find myself thinking that bass or treble sound anything other than natural. I can discern tonal differences in bass notes that I cannot in lesser amps. On the other end of the spectrum, cymbals sound like cymbals and the upper registers of an alto sax or flute sound full and musical (as opposed to thin or brittle).

I think a lot of how we will ultimately feel about any component comes down to system synergy. For instance, Justin’s amps love them some ZMF headphones, and who can blame them? But, I also think that the source is just as important, especially as we move up the quality-of-component ladder. I’ve listened to some music that I like and know well on the Rockwell that has had me question whether my headphones and/or interconnects were full seated. All that to say: If you really want to see what this amp can do, feed it well-produced, competently mixed music. Stuff recorded in a closet and mixed on an iPhone will sound, well, bad. The Rockwell is not going to cover up flaws or add a sense of euphoria to thin/poor mastering. Run some well-recorded music through this amp (translated through a decent DAC if you are digital) and out to some reasonably resolving, comfortable-to-you headphones, and you will find the Rockwell to be outstanding. It’s opened a whole new level of appreciation for well-recorded music like Fleetwood Mac’s Rumors and Steely Dan’s Aja. It’s a beautifully cohesive amplifier.

If you have any questions, I will be happy to try to address them. It can be difficult to reduce to words what we hear and how what we hear makes us feel, so rather than try to rehash and summarize everything I’ve already said, I’ll end with this: The A&S Rockwell Rev. 2 is amongst the very best audio purchases I have ever made. I have never found it so easy to get lost in the music. Thanks for your time.


----------



## asix

Does anyone know if ampsandsound provides discounts during holidays or at canjam/shows? It's rare to see their products in used market..


----------



## bdh

He told me he doesn't have sales because then people learn to just wait for the expected sale.


----------



## dpump

There are some A&S amps for sale here on head-fi in the classifieds. Also check USA Audiomart.


----------



## ampsandsound

Hopefully most would say give me a call. I try to help where I can and give earnest suggestions.


----------



## asix

Thanks! Just haven't made up my mind yet, with price being one of the factors but not the only one! Will the nautilus or Red October be at the socal canjam this year?


----------



## duranxv

Big thanks to Justin at @ampsandsound for talking with me on the phone, especially during a weekend, to answer a ton of questions for me.  Looking forward to trying some new tube rolling options for the Nautilus with some NOS tubes.

One interesting finding for the other amp owners here (Nautilus or otherwise) - I was about sell my Ferrum stack until Justin told me about how a good SS pre-amp can enhance the sound of a tube amp.  I decided to give it a go, and safe to say, looks like I'm not selling my Ferrum stack now   The addition of a good SS pre-amp like the Ferrum OOR plus its Hypsos PSU further enhanced the already impressive dynamics and bass of the Nautilus.  The extra power never hurts either.

I'd definitely encourage anyone to introduce a SS pre-amp in their chain with their A&S amp and see how that enhances the sound for you.


----------



## ozziegurkan

duranxv said:


> Big thanks to Justin at @ampsandsound for talking with me on the phone, especially during a weekend, to answer a ton of questions for me.  Looking forward to trying some new tube rolling options for the Nautilus with some NOS tubes.
> 
> One interesting finding for the other amp owners here (Nautilus or otherwise) - I was about sell my Ferrum stack until Justin told me about how a good SS pre-amp can enhance the sound of a tube amp.  I decided to give it a go, and safe to say, looks like I'm not selling my Ferrum stack now   The addition of a good SS pre-amp like the Ferrum OOR plus its Hypsos PSU further enhanced the already impressive dynamics and bass of the Nautilus.  The extra power never hurts either.
> 
> I'd definitely encourage anyone to introduce a SS pre-amp in their chain with their A&S amp and see how that enhances the sound for you.


I had the same conversation for the Bigger. Ben v2, which is amazing, btw, and tried multiple preamps like Freya+, Jot 2, OOR, A90, Soloist GT, and Pro iCan Signature. I ended up buying a Pre90 and love the combo esp since I get a vol display and the super clean sound from my Yggy LIM.  It’s a really good deal for the money and leaves my other amps to being headphone amps. The one amp that changed the sound the most was Jot 2 and the ones that cleaned it up the most was the Soloist and Pre90.


----------



## LegionofDoom

Any other impressions with Soloist GT as pre-amp would be greatly appreciated as that is the chain I am considering as a GT owner.  Pros and cons?

Thank you!


----------



## hmss007

Has any ampsandsound owners tried a REL Tzero MKIII subwoofer with their speaker setup? Any reasons it would not be recommended. 

Thanks.


----------



## ampsandsound

Think Sam Rosen has used.


----------



## MLPhoenix

hmss007 said:


> Has any ampsandsound owners tried a REL Tzero MKIII subwoofer with their speaker setup? Any reasons it would not be recommended.
> 
> Thanks.


I use one with my Nautilus along with a pair of Klipsch r-51m and I love it.  The room is small (about 14X14) so the size is perfect and once dialed in it sounds great.  I would definitely recommend it to anyone primarily listening to music (it wouldn't be up to proper home theater tasks).


----------



## WillieB

duranxv said:


> Big thanks to Justin at @ampsandsound for talking with me on the phone, especially during a weekend, to answer a ton of questions for me.  Looking forward to trying some new tube rolling options for the Nautilus with some NOS tubes.
> 
> One interesting finding for the other amp owners here (Nautilus or otherwise) - I was about sell my Ferrum stack until Justin told me about how a good SS pre-amp can enhance the sound of a tube amp.  I decided to give it a go, and safe to say, looks like I'm not selling my Ferrum stack now   The addition of a good SS pre-amp like the Ferrum OOR plus its Hypsos PSU further enhanced the already impressive dynamics and bass of the Nautilus.  The extra power never hurts either.
> 
> I'd definitely encourage anyone to introduce a SS pre-amp in their chain with their A&S amp and see how that enhances the sound for you.


I have an Audio-dg R28 that is behind an Audio-gd DI20HE. The R28 is a DAC/Preamp/HP amp. I use the DAC in preamp mode to drive the BB and it does make a significant difference over my other DACs. Even when I'm using one of my RME DACs for DSP/EQ, I typically still send the output to the R28 rather than directly to the BB. I think the benefits of a good preamp are often overlooked.


----------



## Maalis

The Rockwell uses the 6AX5 rectifier, is it also compatible with the 6X5?


----------



## jeffarm13

Maalis said:


> The Rockwell uses the 6AX5 rectifier, is it also compatible with the 6X5?


Sorry, I can't help.  Let's see if we can get Justin (@ampsandsound) to weigh in.


----------



## jeffarm13

After three more weeks with the Rockwell Rev 2 (which has been joined recently by a Schiit Folksvangr, because why not?), I finally rolled a NOS 12AX7 into the amp - still haven't touched the NOS Sylvania 6B4Gs that Justin included - and, damn, this Mazda grey plate that a guitar-head buddy gifted me is just amazing.  Just a tone to die for.  I thought the Genelex Gold Lion elevated the sound over the stock JJ. That was a baby step. The Mazda is a class or more above. It's always nice when something that sounds as spectacular as the Rockwell can be made to sound even more spectacular.  Good stuffs. Really easy to put you in a "you are there" state.  Eventually, I'll roll in some Ken-Rad 6B4Gs or some of the Soviet stuff, but I'm not in any rush. This is bliss. 

For those interested, the Folksvangr is not the Rockwell. It's a somewhat less transportive experience. The Rockwell does everything better, but the Folksvangr is more "in your face" with its presentation.  With certain types of music and in certain moods, that's a really good thing.  It's a nice complementary piece to the Rockwell (and it looks cool with the tubes on and lights off), but I'd slot it equal to or ever so slightly behind my old Pendant SE.


----------



## intedinator

I’m about to join the ranks of the ampsandsound community. Just purchased a used late version of the Bigger Ben (rev 1 with some rev 2 features).  Big thanks to Justin @ampsandsound for answering a lot of questions.  I really appreciate the personal interaction that comes with this hobby with certain manufacturers like ampsandsound, ZMF (I have a stabilized VC), and JDS Labs.  I’m also wondering about preamps, and trying to get my head wrapped around them, and watching the ongoing discussion on this thread.  What are the characteristics I should be looking at in a preamp?  I can see that the BB amp has an input sensitivity of 3.1V, so a preamp that can provide that voltage will be able to drive the BB to full volume.  But I’m sure there are current and impedance considerations there too.  Any guidance for a semi-technically minded tube amp newbie?


----------



## ItHz

intedinator said:


> I’m about to join the ranks of the ampsandsound community. Just purchased a used late version of the Bigger Ben (rev 1 with some rev 2 features).  Big thanks to Justin @ampsandsound for answering a lot of questions.  I really appreciate the personal interaction that comes with this hobby with certain manufacturers like ampsandsound, ZMF (I have a stabilized VC), and JDS Labs.  I’m also wondering about preamps, and trying to get my head wrapped around them, and watching the ongoing discussion on this thread.  What are the characteristics I should be looking at in a preamp?  I can see that the BB amp has an input sensitivity of 3.1V, so a preamp that can provide that voltage will be able to drive the BB to full volume.  But I’m sure there are current and impedance considerations there too.  Any guidance for a semi-technically minded tube amp newbie?


What DAC do you intend you use? The outputs may be sufficient to drive the BB to satisfactory levels or beyond as "full volume" may be well past ear-bleeding levels.  I currently feed my amp directly from the DAC's fixed voltage outputs and am currently limited to just the first 4-5 clicks on the amp's attenuator.


----------



## DenverW

^ I’m curious if a preamp would improve sound quality, but my BB Rev 1 doesn’t lack volume and power.  With 300 ohm gear on high impedance I’m not hitting 9 pm on the volume knob.


----------



## WillieB

DenverW said:


> ^ I’m curious if a preamp would improve sound quality, but my BB Rev 1 doesn’t lack volume and power.  With 300 ohm gear on high impedance I’m not hitting 9 pm on the volume knob.


Does the BB Rev 1 have input transformers?



ItHz said:


> What DAC do you intend you use? The outputs may be sufficient to drive the BB to satisfactory levels or beyond as "full volume" may be well past ear-bleeding levels. I currently feed my amp directly from the DAC's fixed voltage outputs and am currently limited to just the first 4-5 clicks on the amp's attenuator.


Another thing to keep in mind in digital systems is EQ. If you are using any type of EQ on the digital side, you likely have some negative pre-amp gain setting there, this tends to decrease overall volume. The pre-amp can help make up for this on the analog side.


----------



## intedinator

ItHz said:


> What DAC do you intend you use? The outputs may be sufficient to drive the BB to satisfactory levels or beyond as "full volume" may be well past ear-bleeding levels.  I currently feed my amp directly from the DAC's fixed voltage outputs and am currently limited to just the first 4-5 clicks on the amp's attenuator.


I’ll use my JDS Labs Element II for now.  It puts out up to 2V in low gain, and up to 9.5V in high gain, either of which, to your point, will be adequate for the 300 ohm VC.  I’m just thinking down the road.


----------



## intedinator

DenverW said:


> ^ I’m curious if a preamp would improve sound quality, but my BB Rev 1 doesn’t lack volume and power.  With 300 ohm gear on high impedance I’m not hitting 9 pm on the volume knob.


That’s what I’m wondering, and what characteristics of the preamp (wherever that’s implemented) factor into the amp behavior and perceived sound quality.  Some of this, I expect will be subjective and qualitative, which is fine with me.


----------



## intedinator

WillieB said:


> Does the BB Rev 1 have input transformers?
> 
> 
> Another thing to keep in mind in digital systems is EQ. If you are using any type of EQ on the digital side, you likely have some negative pre-amp gain setting there, this tends to decrease overall volume. The pre-amp can help make up for this on the analog side.


I believe it does have input transformers.  Good point about the EQ.  I occasionally use some in Roon, but not often.


----------



## duranxv

I can confirm that a pre-amp will enhance your experience with your A&S amp.  I took Justin's suggestion on using a pre-amp, and he was right.  I use a Ferrum OOR + Hypsos stack as a pre-amp for the Nautilus, and I can definitely notice a difference.


----------



## intedinator

duranxv said:


> I can confirm that a pre-amp will enhance your experience with your A&S amp.  I took Justin's suggestion on using a pre-amp, and he was right.  I use a Ferrum OOR + Hypsos stack as a pre-amp for the Nautilus, and I can definitely notice a difference.


Thanks duranxv.  I’m looking forward to learning more about Justin’s new preamp.  He seems to have this down to an art form.


----------



## DenverW

duranxv said:


> I can confirm that a pre-amp will enhance your experience with your A&S amp.  I took Justin's suggestion on using a pre-amp, and he was right.  I use a Ferrum OOR + Hypsos stack as a pre-amp for the Nautilus, and I can definitely notice a difference.


I'd need to find a slightly more affordable option; that sounds absolutely amazing, but is a bit too much for me atm .  If anyone has a suggestion let me know!


----------



## duranxv

DenverW said:


> I'd need to find a slightly more affordable option; that sounds absolutely amazing, but is a bit too much for me atm .  If anyone has a suggestion let me know!



According to Justin, any decently built pre-amp will do the trick.  I just happen to have had the Ferrum stack before I got the Nautilus


----------



## AndyTheGreatest

DenverW said:


> I'd need to find a slightly more affordable option; that sounds absolutely amazing, but is a bit too much for me atm .  If anyone has a suggestion let me know!


I've heard good things about the Burson Soloist 3xp as a preamp, although I haven't tried this combination myself.


----------



## WillieB (Jul 28, 2022)

AndyTheGreatest said:


> I've heard good things about the Burson Soloist 3xp as a preamp, although I haven't tried this combination myself.


There is also the Topping PRE90 as a lower cost option. I have the A90, which has pre-amp mode and it's a very flat, neutral sound, which is what I would think is preferable. I would assume the PRE90 sounds similar. There are tons of options, but for $500, it's a contender.


----------



## ozziegurkan

The GT is really dynamic and energetic. It works really well as a preamp for it. I wanted to use it standalone so I bought the Pre90 instead and kept GT out of the chain. Bottom line is that the GT gives is more than the gain needed for the Bigger Ben to shine.


----------



## ozziegurkan

WillieB said:


> There is also the Topping PRE90 as a lower cost option. I have the A90, which has pre-amp mode and it's a very flat, neutral sound, which is what I would think is preferable. I would assume the PRE90 sounds similar. There are tons of options, but for $500, it's a contender.


I can vouch for the Pre90. It works really well and can’t beat the remote volume control feature. Plus the sound is super transparent and passes through the DAC untouched.


----------



## intedinator

The BBrev1 arrived.  Sure is a pretty thing.  @ampsandsound is an artist!


----------



## WillieB

intedinator said:


> The BBrev1 arrived.  Sure is a pretty thing.  @ampsandsound is an artist!



I love mine more every day. As I compare it to my many amps and the amps of others, I realize how much I got in this one package. The tube options are plentiful to say the least. At first I thought it was such a simple design for the price, but Justin made it clear that this is one of their driving principles. As I have spent over a thousand hours with it now, I have realized how well it is engineered. There is something remarkable about every reasonable tube roll that I have tried. They all offer unique benefits if you allow them to stay in the amp long enough to appreciate them and every type of power tube sounds as if the amp were designed specifically for it. I have a lot of tubes and have just scratched the surface. The speaker taps offer a whole other bonus. BB is excellent paired with my Zu Omen Mk II speakers. I suspect it would work well with any efficient speaker and even many medium sensitivity speakers. I am now considering a 300b amp and it's going to be near impossible for me to resist it's sister amp, the Agartha.


----------



## DeweyCH

Ayy, got me a new base for my Mogwai SE - thank you @andypat!

Old base got damaged in shipping and had a crunched corner:





Andy reached out asking if I had any interest in his stock base, and I jumped at it. Looks so much better now!





LOVE this amp, and it just seems right in the beautiful walnut (I think?) base. A&S makes art.


----------



## DeweyCH

Anyone have a recommendation for dealing with the rust that's starting to accumulate on the top of the transformers?


----------



## ampsandsound

With transformers that aren’t painted but with exposed lacquer. If you get some  steel wool 00 to clean off. Then apply a clear coat spray paint and you’re good to go.  Obviously buoy need to careful tape off everything you don’t want sprayed with paint.  Alt you can clean up with the steel whool and then brush on a clear or flat black paint. Much less prep work involved.


----------



## Sebastien Chiu

WillieB said:


> I love mine more every day. As I compare it to my many amps and the amps of others, I realize how much I got in this one package. The tube options are plentiful to say the least. At first I thought it was such a simple design for the price, but Justin made it clear that this is one of their driving principles. As I have spent over a thousand hours with it now, I have realized how well it is engineered. There is something remarkable about every reasonable tube roll that I have tried. They all offer unique benefits if you allow them to stay in the amp long enough to appreciate them and every type of power tube sounds as if the amp were designed specifically for it. I have a lot of tubes and have just scratched the surface. The speaker taps offer a whole other bonus. BB is excellent paired with my Zu Omen Mk II speakers. I suspect it would work well with any efficient speaker and even many medium sensitivity speakers. I am now considering a 300b amp and it's going to be near impossible for me to resist it's sister amp, the Agartha.





DeweyCH said:


> Ayy, got me a new base for my Mogwai SE - thank you @andypat!
> 
> Old base got damaged in shipping and had a crunched corner:
> 
> ...



Amazing stuff guys. Congratulations on the new pieces/upgrades.


----------



## asix

Hi! I'm looking for tube rolling recommendations for Nautilus. What tubes for KT88, 12AX7, 5AR4? I would appreciate info on sound signatures too!


----------



## duranxv

asix said:


> Hi! I'm looking for tube rolling recommendations for Nautilus. What tubes for KT88, 12AX7, 5AR4? I would appreciate info on sound signatures too!



So far I've really been enjoying NOS Tung Sol 6550's for the KT88 slots, a NOS Philips Heerlen D-Getter 7062 for the 12AX7 slot and a pair of NOS Mullard GZ34's for the 5AR4 slots.

What's really impressive about the Nautilus is how good is sounds even with just the stock tubes.  I find the NOS tubes add a bit more soundstage and depth, while also giving a touch more clarity and low end presence.


----------



## ampsandsound

duranxv said:


> So far I've really been enjoying NOS Tung Sol 6550's for the KT88 slots, a NOS Philips Heerlen D-Getter 7062 for the 12AX7 slot and a pair of NOS Mullard GZ34's for the 5AR4 slots.
> 
> What's really impressive about the Nautilus is how good is sounds even with just the stock tubes.  I find the NOS tubes add a bit more soundstage and depth, while also giving a touch more clarity and low end presence.


That some love choices. 
TT21s and A2900s are maybe other worth while options.


----------



## intedinator

Late night listening with the Bigger Ben.


----------



## DJJEZ

asix said:


> Hi! I'm looking for tube rolling recommendations for Nautilus. What tubes for KT88, 12AX7, 5AR4? I would appreciate info on sound signatures too!


I have a red October but it uses the 12AX7 and 5AR4 as well.

The stock tubes Justin gave me I honestly really love which are current production mullard GZ34's and a JJ 5751 plus gold lion 300B's. All of these combined = very smooth and fatigue free.

I also own  NOS siemens GZ34s, gold lion 12AX7, NOS Telefunken 12AX7 and a NOS sylvania 12AX7 black plate.


----------



## Badlands

Hello!
Received my Kenzie OG Rev 2 a few days ago and wanted to share some quick impressions. Most of my listening thus far has been with the Auteur OG, and wow, the Kenzie elevated the performance of that that headphone significantly. There’s an elegance and refinement which effortlessly conveys the nuances of voices and instruments regardless of music genre. The vivid imaging, layering and depth of the Kenzie results in a more holographic soundstage vs my solid state amps. Finally, the Kenzie renders the sonic landscape with a vibrantly rich texture that accentuates my emotive connection to the music in a manner I have not experienced  before.

I must admit that I was skeptical of those who espoused the need to hear a ZMF headphone through a tube amp. Even though I only logged a few hours of listening with the Kenzie to date, I’m now a believer in tube magic. 

My thanks to Justin for his ultra quick responsiveness and extensive guidance as this was my first first foray into tube amps. He spent a lot of time on the phone answering questions and helping me make the right decision based on my use case and listening preferences. So happy I decided to purchase the Kenzie OG Rev 2.

Will post more impressions as I continue my listening journey with this wonderful amp.


----------



## DenverW

Anyone know which Jupiter capacitors are in the bigger ben?


----------



## bigjako

Badlands said:


> Hello!
> Received my Kenzie OG Rev 2 a few days ago and wanted to share some quick impressions. Most of my listening thus far has been with the Auteur OG, and wow, the Kenzie elevated the performance of that that headphone significantly. There’s an elegance and refinement which effortlessly conveys the nuances of voices and instruments regardless of music genre. The vivid imaging, layering and depth of the Kenzie results in a more holographic soundstage vs my solid state amps. Finally, the Kenzie renders the sonic landscape with a vibrantly rich texture that accentuates my emotive connection to the music in a manner I have not experienced  before.
> 
> I must admit that I was skeptical of those who espoused the need to hear a ZMF headphone through a tube amp. Even though I only logged a few hours of listening with the Kenzie to date, I’m now a believer in tube magic.
> ...


I have a Kenzie Encore Deluxe and recently heard it with an Auteur.  Prior to that I’d listened to it on my Aeolus.  I’ll just say that the Kenzie - Auteur pairing was magical. I immediately picked up a used Auteur and sold off the Aeolus.  It’s just got an amazing synergy and the combo helped me appreciate the Kenzie that much more.


----------



## vidzegg

Hi Everyone,

I am kind of wannabe audiophile. I have recently upgraded from HIfiman HEX V2 to Arya and now HEK v2. I dont have any fancy gear  and I like to listen from my Desktop PC. My only use is watching movies and listening to music on Youtube. I am a fan of Hifiman house sound due to its space and immersion and I have tried a few moderately high end other headphones like HD 800, Meze Empyrean, Koss ESP 950, Sony Z1R, LCD 2C and Ether Flow but ran back to hifiman because of enveloping spaciousness at cost of some impact.  I  am looking for high-end tube amp that will tame slightly peaky treble of Arya since I am a little sensitive to it.  Its becoming a deal breaker for me coz i like long listening sessions which were possible on HEX v2 but not on arya so far. I am getting a HEK v2 tomorrow to see it is slightly smoother than Arya. I m looking at Forge and Kenzio OG as options of end game tube amp for me. I could not find as many reviews on these as i had hoped but i have listened to Justin's videos which were quite enlightening.

Theoretically, Ampsandsound amps should compliment Hifiman headphones very well as they can fill in the mids slightly, add intimacy and richer tone and tame the treble but i am surprised and somewhat alarmed that there is not much information about synergy of these amps with Hifiman headphones . Even Justin or ampsandsounds fans like Marcello and TylersEclectic dont mention this combination in their YouTube videos . I am also stuck because Forge seems moderately euphonic, powerful and also easily available and returnable at Headphones.com but may not tame the treble of Arya completely and Kenzio OG described as sweeter and richer amp that may suit Arya/ HEK v2 better but may or may not drive these headphones well enough and Ampsandsound does not offer returns which is stopping me from taking a plunge.

So i thought I would ask here. Any feedback is welcome.


----------



## DenverW (Aug 17, 2022)

vidzegg said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I am kind of wannabe audiophile. I have recently upgraded from HIfiman HEX V2 to Arya and now HEK v2. I dont have any fancy gear  and I like to listen from my Desktop PC. My only use is watching movies and listening to music on Youtube. I am a fan of Hifiman house sound due to its space and immersion and I have tried a few moderately high end other headphones like HD 800, Meze Empyrean, Koss ESP 950, Sony Z1R, LCD 2C and Ether Flow but ran back to hifiman because of enveloping spaciousness at cost of some impact.  I  am looking for high-end tube amp that will tame slightly peaky treble of Arya since I am a little sensitive to it.  Its becoming a deal breaker for me coz i like long listening sessions which were possible on HEX v2 but not on arya so far. I am getting a HEK v2 tomorrow to see it is slightly smoother than Arya. I m looking at Forge and Kenzio OG as options of end game tube amp for me. I could not find as many reviews on these as i had hoped but i have listened to Justin's videos which were quite enlightening.
> 
> ...


You sound like an audiophile to me .

I can't speak about the arya, but I listened to both the he6se and he-500 on my bigger ben and the pairing was excellent with both.  The he6se especially can take a lot of power, and ampandsounds amps have that in spades.  I would anticipate that any of the amps would pair well with hifiman, and to pick the right amp based on how you'd like to flavor the arya.


----------



## Amadeo Nospherathu

DenverW said:


> You sound like an audiophile to me .
> 
> I can't speak about the arya, but I listened to both the he6se and he-500 on my bigger ben and the pairing was excellent with both.  The he6se especially can take a lot of power, and ampandsounds amps have that in spades.  I would anticipate that any of the amps would pair will with hifiman, and to pick the right amp based on how you'd like to flavor the arya.


I had the opportunity to try the Arya and the HE-4 with Flux Lab Iriy and it was a great combo.


----------



## Badlands

bigjako said:


> I have a Kenzie Encore Deluxe and recently heard it with an Auteur.  Prior to that I’d listened to it on my Aeolus.  I’ll just say that the Kenzie - Auteur pairing was magical. I immediately picked up a used Auteur and sold off the Aeolus.  It’s just got an amazing synergy and the combo helped me appreciate the Kenzie that much more.


Thanks so much for chiming in regarding my impressions of Kenzie/Auteur and confirming the amazing synergy I’m hearing. Have watched and read so much regarding the importance of synergy with components. So happy this has come to fruition with the Kenzie/Auteur combo. It truly is as you stated “magical”.


----------



## bigjako

Badlands said:


> Thanks so much for chiming in regarding my impressions of Kenzie/Auteur and confirming the amazing synergy I’m hearing. Have watched and read so much regarding the importance of synergy with components. So happy this has come to fruition with the Kenzie/Auteur combo. It truly is as you stated “magical”.


Now I just need to see if the synergy magic works with the Auteur Classics and/or the Atrium, but that wonderful pairing has made me decide not to upgrade my Auteurs out of fear that I’d lose the synergy with the new drivers.  I don’t want to mess with a good thing.


----------



## DenverW

bigjako said:


> Now I just need to see if the synergy magic works with the Auteur Classics and/or the Atrium, but that wonderful pairing has made me decide not to upgrade my Auteurs out of fear that I’d lose the synergy with the new drivers.  I don’t want to mess with a good thing.


I've had my classics back from the upgrade for a couple days...so far even without full burn in I'm finding them pretty great.  Using the BB rev 1 and there is plenty of magic.  I was worried I'd miss the OG, too, but I don't so far.  I think if I had both side by side I'd reach for the classics.  My only regret is that I don't have an OG with similar density here to do a head to head.


----------



## tholt

vidzegg said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I am kind of wannabe audiophile. I have recently upgraded from HIfiman HEX V2 to Arya and now HEK v2. I dont have any fancy gear  and I like to listen from my Desktop PC. My only use is watching movies and listening to music on Youtube. I am a fan of Hifiman house sound due to its space and immersion and I have tried a few moderately high end other headphones like HD 800, Meze Empyrean, Koss ESP 950, Sony Z1R, LCD 2C and Ether Flow but ran back to hifiman because of enveloping spaciousness at cost of some impact.  I  am looking for high-end tube amp that will tame slightly peaky treble of Arya since I am a little sensitive to it.  Its becoming a deal breaker for me coz i like long listening sessions which were possible on HEX v2 but not on arya so far. I am getting a HEK v2 tomorrow to see it is slightly smoother than Arya. I m looking at Forge and Kenzio OG as options of end game tube amp for me. I could not find as many reviews on these as i had hoped but i have listened to Justin's videos which were quite enlightening.
> 
> ...


Absolutely love my HEKse with the Pendant SE. With respect to taming treble, or even getting good sound, are you using your PC to drive the headphones directly? If so, that's issue #1 -- for any high end headphone. Getting a proper amp and DAC is a given, as well as a decent music source. Agreed on the Kenzie -- I don't think it will have enough drive for the v2. I suggest emailing Justin directly with any questions, he's great at responding.


----------



## WillieB

vidzegg said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I am kind of wannabe audiophile. I have recently upgraded from HIfiman HEX V2 to Arya and now HEK v2. I dont have any fancy gear  and I like to listen from my Desktop PC. My only use is watching movies and listening to music on Youtube. I am a fan of Hifiman house sound due to its space and immersion and I have tried a few moderately high end other headphones like HD 800, Meze Empyrean, Koss ESP 950, Sony Z1R, LCD 2C and Ether Flow but ran back to hifiman because of enveloping spaciousness at cost of some impact.  I  am looking for high-end tube amp that will tame slightly peaky treble of Arya since I am a little sensitive to it.  Its becoming a deal breaker for me coz i like long listening sessions which were possible on HEX v2 but not on arya so far. I am getting a HEK v2 tomorrow to see it is slightly smoother than Arya. I m looking at Forge and Kenzio OG as options of end game tube amp for me. I could not find as many reviews on these as i had hoped but i have listened to Justin's videos which were quite enlightening.
> 
> ...


I have Arya V2. I wouldn't recommend Kenzie OG for any version of Arya due to it's lower power output. If you want Kenzie OG and a wide stage presentation, consider ZMF Atrium or Sennheiser 800s. It's generally accepted that Arya V2 is at it's best with 3W+ RMS so Forge would satisfy that, but.... I chased tube amps with higher power to try and accommodate my once favorite Arya. When I finally ended up with the BB rev2, I found that pretty much any other headphone in my collection had better synergy(Dynamic or Planar). Arya just doesn't do it for me. YMMV. My tastes have changed, I'm sure, and this is all my very subjective opinion. I haven't heard HEKv2. Ananda is an old favorite. I tend to like Arya just fine with a SS amp like Topping A90 with a tube pre-amp. It just doesn't seem to scale up much from there.


----------



## vidzegg

DenverW said:


> You sound like an audiophile to me .
> 
> I can't speak about the arya, but I listened to both the he6se and he-500 on my bigger ben and the pairing was excellent with both.  The he6se especially can take a lot of power, and ampandsounds amps have that in spades.  I would anticipate that any of the amps would pair well with hifiman, and to pick the right amp based on how you'd like to flavor the arya.





Amadeo Nospherathu said:


> I had the opportunity to try the Arya and the HE-4 with Flux Lab Iriy and it was a great combo.





tholt said:


> Absolutely love my HEKse with the Pendant SE. With respect to taming treble, or even getting good sound, are you using your PC to drive the headphones directly? If so, that's issue #1 -- for any high end headphone. Getting a proper amp and DAC is a given, as well as a decent music source. Agreed on the Kenzie -- I don't think it will have enough drive for the v2. I suggest emailing Justin directly with any questions, he's great at responding.


 Thanks a lot for the helpful responses. I do listen from PC through Zen DAC V2 and amp is Xduoo MT 604 hybrid tube amp which puts out 2 W at 32ohm. Both are very inexpensive but i got them because someone in Arya's thread mentioned them as great combo with Arya V3 ( which it is except for slightly peaky treble ) and they could arrive in 2 days from Amazon. I was happy with HEX v2 with portable amp/dac Fiioo E17 for many years and did not want to get TOTL headphones because I am never gonna have good source as I only listen to YouTube music and watch movies on a projector connected to PC ( so soundstage and immersion is a must for me) . I just got bored a little with HEX v2 and decided to upgrade but this endless search has taken over my life for almost a month and everything else is on hold. I first got Meze Empyrean and RME ADI2 DAC which was great except for soundstage which i realized affects immersion. Now, I just want to stay within Hifiman line up and funnily enough, I now have HEX v2, Arya SE and HEK V2 by my side and I will be comparing Arya and HEK V2 in next few days

I do want to build a decent warm chain to bring some more heft to Hifiman sound and wanted to get Denafrips Ares 2 or some Schiit DAC but they wont arrive soon and I have to decide what I want to keep or return before that. For now Zen DAC is ok but I do want to go to high end tube amp ASAP after seeing how $169 Xduoo MT 604 which was my first tube amp made Arya so much better. I think I would email Justin to get more guidance about best pairing with his amps.

BTW, Does headphone.com really honor their 1 year return policy ?  If so, that could give me time to find my perfect sound.


----------



## vidzegg

WillieB said:


> I have Arya V2. I wouldn't recommend Kenzie OG for any version of Arya due to it's lower power output. If you want Kenzie OG and a wide stage presentation, consider ZMF Atrium or Sennheiser 800s. It's generally accepted that Arya V2 is at it's best with 3W+ RMS so Forge would satisfy that, but.... I chased tube amps with higher power to try and accommodate my once favorite Arya. When I finally ended up with the BB rev2, I found that pretty much any other headphone in my collection had better synergy(Dynamic or Planar). Arya just doesn't do it for me. YMMV. My tastes have changed, I'm sure, and this is all my very subjective opinion. I haven't heard HEKv2. Ananda is an old favorite. I tend to like Arya just fine with a SS amp like Topping A90 with a tube pre-amp. It just doesn't seem to scale up much from there.



Sorry, i just saw your comment after i upload mine. That's very helpful and tips the balance to Forge.


----------



## ampsandsound

Arya and Forge is a great pairing.


----------



## vidzegg

ampsandsound said:


> Arya and Forge is a great pairing.


That settles it then   I am ordering the Forge now.


----------



## Thetaburn

vidzegg said:


> Thanks a lot for the helpful responses. I do listen from PC through Zen DAC V2 and amp is Xduoo MT 604 hybrid tube amp which puts out 2 W at 32ohm. Both are very inexpensive but i got them because someone in Arya's thread mentioned them as great combo with Arya V3 ( which it is except for slightly peaky treble ) and they could arrive in 2 days from Amazon. I was happy with HEX v2 with portable amp/dac Fiioo E17 for many years and did not want to get TOTL headphones because I am never gonna have good source as I only listen to YouTube music and watch movies on a projector connected to PC ( so soundstage and immersion is a must for me) . I just got bored a little with HEX v2 and decided to upgrade but this endless search has taken over my life for almost a month and everything else is on hold. I first got Meze Empyrean and RME ADI2 DAC which was great except for soundstage which i realized affects immersion. Now, I just want to stay within Hifiman line up and funnily enough, I now have HEX v2, Arya SE and HEK V2 by my side and I will be comparing Arya and HEK V2 in next few days
> 
> I do want to build a decent warm chain to bring some more heft to Hifiman sound and wanted to get Denafrips Ares 2 or some Schiit DAC but they wont arrive soon and I have to decide what I want to keep or return before that. For now Zen DAC is ok but I do want to go to high end tube amp ASAP after seeing how $169 Xduoo MT 604 which was my first tube amp made Arya so much better. I think I would email Justin to get more guidance about best pairing with his amps.
> 
> BTW, Does headphone.com really honor their 1 year return policy ?  If so, that could give me time to find my perfect sound.


How is the pairing of the MT604 to the Hekv2?
Does it provide enough power for the Hekv2?
I was looking at this pairing for a hybrid tube amp.


----------



## vidzegg

Thetaburn said:


> How is the pairing of the MT604 to the Hekv2?
> Does it provide enough power for the Hekv2?
> I was looking at this pairing for a hybrid tube amp.


Not good at all. Bass is anemic, detail retrieval is modest although sound stage is wider than Arya V3. To put it in perspectives, its even sounds less impressive than HEX V2. I think it needs more power and so I am reserving judgement until I hear it on Forge. I think stealth versions are more generally easier to drive and that's why Arya SE sings with MT-604 and HEK V2 is indifferent.


----------



## ampsandsound

vidzegg said:


> Not good at all. Bass is anemic, detail retrieval is modest although sound stage is wider than Arya V3. To put it in perspectives, its even sounds less impressive than HEX V2. I think it needs more power and so I am reserving judgement until I hear it on Forge. I think stealth versions are more generally easier to drive and that's why Arya SE sings with MT-604 and HEK V2 is indifferent.


Hoes it sound with the forge?


----------



## lsantista

can A&S amps have their AC voltage switched, even if internally? 
tbh in their website I didnt even find info on mains voltage availability but I assume obviously they could ship 220v-230v if asked , but then again, Im not on the market for a new amp but may be interested in a used amp.


----------



## DJJEZ

lsantista said:


> can A&S amps have their AC voltage switched, even if internally?
> tbh in their website I didnt even find info on mains voltage availability but I assume obviously they could ship 220v-230v if asked , but then again, Im not on the market for a new amp but may be interested in a used amp.


I'm pretty sure The AC voltage cannot be switched. They are made specific to your region when ordering.


----------



## ampsandsound

Unfortunately they have been region specific until recently.  In either case you can purchase and send in and we can convert.


----------



## WillieB

Anyone tried the Elrog 5U4G or know if it's compatible? I think the filament current requirement is a little higher on those, but not sure.

@ampsandsound


----------



## DJJEZ

WillieB said:


> Anyone tried the Elrog 5U4G or know if it's compatible? I think the filament current requirement is a little higher on those, but not sure.
> 
> @ampsandsound


I've been debating buying a pair..I'm using the elrog 300B's in my red October and would like to try matching 5U4G's.


----------



## ampsandsound

The Elrog should be fine. Ive had customers use on their bigger bens. 
I couldn't find actual specs to verify.


----------



## DJJEZ

ampsandsound said:


> The Elrog should be fine. Ive had customers use on their bigger bens.
> I couldn't find actual specs to verify.






I've got a pair incoming. Will report back how they are


----------



## Allan5512

Which is better? Ampandsound Kenzie OG or Feliks Euforia? Appreciates your inputs!


----------



## barbz127

Allan5512 said:


> Which is better? Ampandsound Kenzie OG or Feliks Euforia? Appreciates your inputs!


What headphones are you looking to use?


----------



## Allan5512

barbz127 said:


> What headphones are you looking to use?


ZMF VC, Atrium, LCD 5, & DCA Stealth. Thanks!


----------



## theveterans

Allan5512 said:


> ZMF VC, Atrium, LCD 5, & DCA Stealth. Thanks!



Bigger Ben for all of those IMO


----------



## bigjako

theveterans said:


> Bigger Ben for all of those IMO


Curious - is that because of the planars or would you say that if it were just those ZMFs?


----------



## theveterans

bigjako said:


> Curious - is that because of the planars or would you say that if it were just those ZMFs?



OTL doesn't have proper impedance matching with planars and Kenzie doesn't have enough power to bring ample dynamics for the Stealths and LCD-5s


----------



## tholt

Randomly went to the A&S website and noticed the new Jinx amp. Looks intriguing. Anyone have any experience with it yet? I only found one mention of it in this thread from a show. I'm curious how it sounds in general and how it compares with the Leeloo/Pendant SE that I currently enjoy.


----------



## ItHz

tholt said:


> Randomly went to the A&S website and noticed the new Jinx amp. Looks intriguing. Anyone have any experience with it yet? I only found one mention of it in this thread from a show. I'm curious how it sounds in general and how it compares with the Leeloo/Pendant SE that I currently enjoy.


Justin mentions comparisons in a couple of videos


(timestamp 3:56)
​
(timestamp 1:25:51)​


----------



## ampsandsound

bigjako said:


> Curious - is that because of the planars or would you say that if it were just those ZMFs?


Planars need more current and power. 
The Mog SE, Forge, Leeloo or Jinx have 4x-10x more power... they control the planar better. 
The Kenzie is a Dynamic driver specialist or high efficacy planarrs... Rad-0 or LCD-2s.
The DCA Stealth LOVES good power/drive... Mog SE/Forge can light them up.


----------



## ampsandsound

tholt said:


> Randomly went to the A&S website and noticed the new Jinx amp. Looks intriguing. Anyone have any experience with it yet? I only found one mention of it in this thread from a show. I'm curious how it sounds in general and how it compares with the Leeloo/Pendant SE that I currently enjoy.


Similar color pallet, more neutral and good air and space. Will bring to CanJam SocCal.


----------



## ampsandsound

theveterans said:


> OTL doesn't have proper impedance matching with planars and Kenzie doesn't have enough power to bring ample dynamics for the Stealths and LCD-5s


On paper Id agree but The Kenzie surprises as does the ovation... it can be pushed really fair but its not a 1266 choice for sur e:-0.


----------



## bigjako (Sep 5, 2022)

ampsandsound said:


> Planars need more current and power.
> The Mog SE, Forge, Leeloo or Jinx have 4x-10x more power... they control the planar better.
> The Kenzie is a Dynamic driver specialist or high efficacy planarrs... Rad-0 or LCD-2s.
> The DCA Stealth LOVES good power/drive... Mog SE/Forge can light them up.


I listen to my ZMFs and barely get the volume past 9. I can’t imagine needing any more power (and I’ve even tried attenuators to see if it allowed me to turn it up more - turned out they were unnecessary or didn’t unlock more dynamics, like my estat amps do).


----------



## ampsandsound

bigjako said:


> I
> 
> I listen to my ZMFs and barely get the volume past 9. I can’t imagine needing any more power (and I’ve even tried attenuators for see if it allowed me to turn it up more - turned out they were unnecessary or didn’t unlock more dynamics, like my estat amps do).


You might get a 12AU7/12AX7 to 12ASl7 adapter. You might like rolling tubes from the 9pin family. I love octals for the romantic sound but 9pins are quitter.


----------



## bigjako

ampsandsound said:


> You might get a 12AU7/12AX7 to 12ASl7 adapter. You might like rolling tubes from the 9pin family. I love octals for the romantic sound but 9pins are quitter.


Thanks, I will. I have the adapter and a few tubes to roll already.  I’m happy with the volume, but like to roll tubes sometimes to compare.  Can you confirm which between the 12AX7, 12AT7 and 12AU7 is NOT usable in the Kenzie?

I have a diamond base Telefunken ECC801s that I quite like but prefer the head stage that I get from a Tung-sol 12sl7 and that’s what I’m currently rolling with.


----------



## ampsandsound

bigjako said:


> Thanks, I will. I have the adapter and a few tubes to roll already.  I’m happy with the volume, but like to roll tubes sometimes to compare.  Can you confirm which between the 12AX7, 12AT7 and 12AU7 is NOT usable in the Kenzie?
> 
> I have a diamond base Telefunken ECC801s that I quite like but prefer the head stage that I get from a Tung-sol 12sl7 and that’s what I’m currently rolling with.


All 3 should be fine.


----------



## DenverW

ampsandsound said:


> You might get a 12AU7/12AX7 to 12ASl7 adapter. You might like rolling tubes from the 9pin family. I love octals for the romantic sound but 9pins are quitter.


Just checking the 2nd tube pair in that adapter.  12SL7?


----------



## ampsandsound

Not sure what you mean. Can you be specific. 
The adapter is a 12SL7 to any 12AX7/5751/12AU7/12AT7... they are should work without issue.


----------



## DenverW

ampsandsound said:


> Not sure what you mean. Can you be specific.
> The adapter is a 12SL7 to any 12AX7/5751/12AU7/12AT7... they are should work without issue.


Thank you! I probably just don't know the tube lingo;  in your post you mentioned a 12AU7/12AX7 to 12ASl7 adapter and I didn't recognize the 12ASI7.  

I have some of the same volume challenges on the bigger ben, with dynamic headphones getting a bit loud for me at 9 pm.  I have a 12au7 to 6sn7 adapter (I have a rev 1. BB) which does help a bit.  Of course, any other suggestions are always welcome for quieter tubes.


----------



## theveterans

ampsandsound said:


> Planars need more current and power.
> The Mog SE, Forge, Leeloo or Jinx have 4x-10x more power... they control the planar better.
> The Kenzie is a Dynamic driver specialist or high efficacy planarrs... Rad-0 or LCD-2s.
> The DCA Stealth LOVES good power/drive... Mog SE/Forge can light them up.



I have the Forge 32/300 ohm. It certainly drives my Aeon Open X with lots of headroom for movie watching. It puts every other 400 dollar headphone to shame when driven by the Forge. Did you base the Stealth's performance on the 8/100 version?


----------



## ampsandsound

Ive used the BB with the DCA @ 16ohm... I think both the 8ohm forge and the 32ohm sound really really good. Maybe splitting hairs with this performance differences.


----------



## WillieB

@ampsandsound , is it possible to use 807 power tubes(with proper adapters) in the BB? I came across a set and read about some cases where people used them instead of 6L6 or EL-34 without issue in other amps.


----------



## ampsandsound

Tue MIL spec 807s can be used... but I won't be guaranteeing it. Some are less good and will start to red plate.  You need Mil spec and would need to monitor for red plating... this said, if they don't red plate... then they can be used. (Again.... an unofficial report ) .


----------



## DJJEZ (Sep 15, 2022)

4 months on from owning the red october and experimenting with different tubes, dacs and headphones, I thought I would talk a bit about it.

Gear:

1266TC
Susvara
Utopia
Arya
Red october
WA33 JPS elite
Holo may KTE
Chord Dave and M-scaler
AQ niagara 5000

This is hands down my favourite amp and the most impressive amp I've ever heard. It's honestly very hard to put into words how this thing sounds and even finding any negatives of it. I'm not a reviewer and describing audio gear in great detail doesnt come easy to me but i will try talk about my experience. Even 4 months after owning it now, everytime I sit down with this thing I'm totally blown away and in awe of it.

First of all. My absolute favorite headphone to pair with the red october is the abyss 1266TC. This headphone pairs so damn well on tubes and truly is the best way to hear the 1266TC and I use it the most on the red october. One of the main complaints of the 1266TC is the recessed midrange. With this amp, you won't have that problem 😁

I also own susvara and utopia and rotate them regularly and both also sound very impressive on the red october. Some other headphones I've tried on this amp are the lcd4, lcd5, diana phi and diana TC. I have yet to find a headphone that doesn't synergize well with this amp.

Regarding dacs to pair with the red october, I own a chord dave and m-scaler along with a holo may KTE. The reason why I have these 2 dacs is they sound so different to each other. The May leans to sounding more analogue, is slightly laid back, really smooth with amazing tonal density and overall just more natural. The dave is more vibrant and in your face with more resolution but also more fatiguing so careful matching is needed. After trying both dacs back and forth for months on end my personal preference is the holo may KTE. The combination with the red October just sounds ridiculously analogue and extremely smooth with great tonal density and weight and is overall more natural.

The red october sounds absolutely huge as long as your pair it with the right gear. The holo may has a massive soundstage as well as the 1266tc so when you pair all 3 together the end result is a absolutely massive soundtage in width and depth.

Regarding tubes. The Red october comes with gold lion 300B's, a JJ 5571 and new production mullard GZ34 rectifiers. All of this combined, It's very clear to me why Justin chose these tubes, it is the smoothest and least fatiguing I've heard the red october.

 If the smoothness is too much you can roll the 12ax7 tube which honestly makes a much bigger difference than I would of ever imagined. Something like a telefunken 12ax7 or a sylvania 12ax7 black plate will make the amp lean towards being a bit more neutral with slightly less smoothness but you gain a more punchy sound.

I also own elrog 300Bs which I switch in every so often. The elrogs add absolutely crazy dynamics to the Red October along with some serious bass and imaging and speed. It is definitely a more analytical sound compared to the gold lion's and you lose some richness and smooothness for sure.

I also own a WA33 JPS elite tube amp which is a seriously impressive amp but in my opinion the red october is pretty much better at nearly everything and is 2/3 of the cost. When you listen to a wa33 it sounds like a hybrid tube amp to me. It has the speed and imaging of a solid state amp but also the rounded off edges and tube spaciousness and smoothness. In my opinion the wa33 has more pinpoint accurate sharper imaging along with speed and transients but the red october beats it in every single other aspect. The Red october sounds way more tubier, much more open sounding, better midrange, richer, bigger soundstage (both depth and width), better tonal density, better timbre, more natural and alot more smoother and just overall more analogue than the wa33.

If I had to sum up the red october in one word it would be 'euphoric'. This amp has the best midrange i've heard from any amp, it really is a midrange monster and has such an incredible musicality to it, it makes you feel the music with more emotion more than any other piece of gear I've come across. When you listen to this amp you forget about listening to your gear and analysing music and just end up compleley absorbed in the music.

I really hope more people can experience  this amp and I'm hoping it gets alot more exposure at canjam this weekend.


----------



## Ciggavelli

DJJEZ said:


> 4 months on from owning the red october and experimenting with different tubes, dacs and headphones, I thought I would talk a bit about it.
> 
> Gear:
> 
> ...


Thanks for that great write-up   

As somebody who absolutely loves my WA33 EE JPS with my 1266 TCs, the Red October now really interests me.   The fact that the TCs may sound even better on the Red October vs the WA33 really appeals to me.  I'd love to hear this amp.  I shoulda flown to Cali for this CanJam...


----------



## DJJEZ

Ciggavelli said:


> Thanks for that great write-up
> 
> As somebody who absolutely loves my WA33 EE JPS with my 1266 TCs, the Red October now really interests me.   The fact that the TCs may sound even better on the Red October vs the WA33 really appeals to me.  I'd love to hear this amp.  I shoulda flown to Cali for this CanJam...


There's always canjam NY as well next year 😁

If you get to hear one I would love to know what you think.


----------



## linshu1992

I have WA33 SE and Nautilus. I’m going to the canjam and Red October is at top of my list. Very, very curious for the comparison.


----------



## normie610

Ciggavelli said:


> Thanks for that great write-up
> 
> As somebody who absolutely loves my WA33 EE JPS with my 1266 TCs, the Red October now really interests me.   The fact that the TCs may sound even better on the Red October vs the WA33 really appeals to me.  I'd love to hear this amp.  I shoulda flown to Cali for this CanJam...


300B is absolutely amazing and is the way to go with TC (and with anything else really).


----------



## paradoxper

normie610 said:


> 300B is absolutely amazing and is the way to go with TC (and with anything else really).


A movement mandating 300B and 1266 matching. It is ridiculous and so much better than other great pairings like DIY T2 and stats.


----------



## ampsandsound

Not to late to fly in... 2 Red Octobers will be on show. 3 Nautilus, 2 Jinx, and 1 Ovation. I can believe Im bring this much gear and doing it on my own.
Bringing booster boxes and 1 pre too.


----------



## WillieB

ampsandsound said:


> Tue MIL spec 807s can be used... but I won't be guaranteeing it. Some are less good and will start to red plate.  You need Mil spec and would need to monitor for red plating... this said, if they don't red plate... then they can be used. (Again.... an unofficial report ) .


Thanks. That sounds reasonable enough. The ones I have are JAN Westinghouse, made in Canada. I think they're circa 1940's. I don't have adapters yet. I'll keep a close watch on them if I decide to try them.


----------



## Rileycw4

I have had the Kenzie 2 for over a month so wanted to give some impressions here. I didn’t see a Kenzie specific thread.

I was looking for a tube amp around $2000 to upgrade my bottlehead crack and this one checked all the boxes for my Zmf’s, Hd800s, and Focal headphones. I also considered the pendant and the feliks amps.

I will do my best to describe how this amp sounds compared to the bottlehead crack. It is noticeably punchier and snappier. The upper midrange and lower treble has a crispness that is more reminiscent of a solid state. There isn’t a roll off that you get with the top end of the bottlehead crack. The bass has more body to it without being as loose/ muddy as the bhc.

I didn’t notice a huge difference in staging with the Kenzie compared to the bhc. The extra energy in the treble does make headphones like the vc and hd800s more airy. I don’t love using the term dynamic but the extra power this amp has makes the headphones more energetic and fun, especially at higher volumes.

This is the amp is amazing with the verite closed and is the perfect size to place next to my desk.

For tube rolling I didn’t notice much of a difference with the rca and tung sol 1626’s but looking to try different input tubes for a bit more reverb in the bass.


----------



## Rileycw4 (Sep 19, 2022)




----------



## intedinator

I’ve started to accumulate a number of tubes for my BB.  It’s becoming a major project just to keep track of what can go in this amp, what can’t, what I’ve tried, or bought and forgot to try.  I found a piece of live edge oak at an antique store and turned it into a lighted tube shelf that sits above the BB in my listening area.  Perhaps this will provide some useful ideas for fellow ampsandsound and tube lovers with similar challenges.


----------



## ampsandsound

One of the very best tube displays I’ve ever seen.


----------



## intedinator

ampsandsound said:


> One of the very best tube displays I’ve ever seen.


Thanks Justin!  I’ve never built anything like this before, and I’m pretty new to tubes.  You’re admiration is very encouraging!  Warming up the BB, turning on the tube shelf, sliding into my contour recliner and donning the Vérité Closed is my therapy — sort of like sitting by the fire with a good book.  If only I could stop falling asleep…


----------



## Smallpie

intedinator said:


> I’ve started to accumulate a number of tubes for my BB.  It’s becoming a major project just to keep track of what can go in this amp, what can’t, what I’ve tried, or bought and forgot to try.  I found a piece of live edge oak at an antique store and turned it into a lighted tube shelf that sits above the BB in my listening area.  Perhaps this will provide some useful ideas for fellow ampsandsound and tube lovers with similar challenges.


What’s the pink slab for behind the amp?


----------



## intedinator

Smallpie said:


> What’s the pink slab for behind the amp?


It’s a salt lamp.


----------



## bigjako

Does the salt lamp have a big impact on the sound?   

/s I'm totally kidding.


----------



## intedinator

bigjako said:


> Does the salt lamp have a big impact on the sound?
> 
> /s I'm totally kidding.


I tried to think of a witty response, but it quickly turned into a cacophony of audiophile clichés.  I just stick with “no”. 😉


----------



## DJJEZ

normie610 said:


> 300B is absolutely amazing and is the way to go with TC (and with anything else really).


Agree. 300B is the way


----------



## darktooth8 (Sep 20, 2022)

duranxv said:


> Referring to tube rolling in my post above, for the Nautilus owners here - what "upgrade" (and I use the term loosely here) tubes do you feel elevated your experience with the Nautilus to a whole new level in terms of bass, dynamics, soundstage and detail/clarity?


I just got done rolling through some tubes - I focused on the pre amp tube as I wanted to have the blackest background I could find. The JJ that came with it was fairly noisy. I am running the nautilus next to computer equipment and the power in the attic isn’t the best.

I found that the long plate NOS Mullard 12ax7 sounded the best, and fairly silent. I’d say this is a great middle point for me balancing quiet and still has that euphoric sparkle…

The 14mm plate 7025 rca and Mullard sound similar. These have shorter plates and coiled wiring to keep it especially quiet. Similar gain to 12ax7. I am using an RCA 7025 right now and dead silent up to 100ohm. These sound almost as good as the long plate Mullard. 

I got some NOS 12ax7 telefunken smooth plates to try… they were ok but seemed a bit thin to me. Especially since I’m already using a chord dac which can seem thin. It took away what I love about the nautilus, the deep bass and mid range growl. 

As for the power tubes I felt like the new production telefunken black diamond (made by jj) is actually pretty good - a good amount of airiness and does a good job increasing what I like about the preamp tube

I am currently using some KR audio kt 88s and it does seem it does add a bit more air than the new prod telefunken black diamonds but tbh I think the pre amp tube makes a bigger difference.

The rectifier 5ar4 I got some Mullards with the black base. Fairly easy to get… it punched up the bass from the Baldwin tubes that were in it quite a lot.

I’ve spent so many hours with the nautilus and still it amazes me.

You have me curious about a pre amp now…


----------



## Badlands

Originally posted this on the Atrium thread but thought I’d share here as well.

Let me caveat this this by saying my Kenzie OG 2 is the only tube amp I ever heard. Nevertheless, it never ceases to amaze me paired with the OG Auteur. Sublime is a most apt word to describe it. It’s the most revelatory purchase I’ve made in this hobby. Watched Resolve’s review of the OG Kenzie again last night and he nailed the sound characteristics of the amp perfectly. Would love to hear some of Justin’s higher end amps. Atrium or Caldera is what I’m hoping to purchase next for a headphone. We’ll see if I can hold out till CJ NYC so I can demo them but I know myself well enough to say that I may end up making the purchase during ZMF’s November sale.


----------



## WillieB (Sep 24, 2022)

WillieB said:


> @ampsandsound , is it possible to use 807 power tubes(with proper adapters) in the BB? I came across a set and read about some cases where people used them instead of 6L6 or EL-34 without issue in other amps.





ampsandsound said:


> Tue MIL spec 807s can be used... but I won't be guaranteeing it. Some are less good and will start to red plate.  You need Mil spec and would need to monitor for red plating... this said, if they don't red plate... then they can be used. (Again.... an unofficial report ) .






....An update on the 807 pentodes and Bigger Ben. Here they are installed and working. I'm using the Russian Winged C equivalent of 5U4G for rectification and they seem fine. I'm keeping an eye on them for the time being, but they sound great so far. I found the adapters on Ebay from Amptata. They are pretty good, but I would prefer a set from Pulse or the like. Pulse was out of the 5 pin sockets, but they are going to make me a set once they get some in from Japan. As far as sound goes, the bottom end is tight and punchy like 6L6GC, mids are very similar as well, but upper mids and highs are silky and strings just sound outstanding. I hope they don't change much as I really like them so far. We'll see what happens as they run in a bit. The versatility of these amps is so much fun!


----------



## intedinator

WillieB said:


> ....An update on the 807 pentodes and Bigger Ben. Here they are installed and working. I'm using the Russian Winged C equivalent of 5U4G for rectification and they seem fine. I'm keeping an eye on them for the time being, but they sound great so far. I found the adapters on Ebay from Amptata. They are pretty good, but I would prefer a set from Pulse or the like. Pulse was out of the 5 pin sockets, but they are going to make me a set once they get some in from Japan. As far as sound goes, the bottom end is tight and punchy like 6L6GC, mids are very similar as well, but upper mids and highs are silky and strings just sound outstanding. I hope they don't change much as I really like them so far. We'll see what happens as they run in a bit. The versatility of these amps is so much fun!


Keep us posted.  Very interested in your results.


----------



## ampsandsound

Looking good. Prob wise to use a 5u4 and not the 5ar4. Keeps the b+ lower


----------



## darktooth8

ampsandsound said:


> Looking good. Prob wise to use a 5u4 and not the 5ar4. Keeps the b+ lower


Do you recommend 5u4 on the nautilus over 5ar4?


----------



## ampsandsound

Depends on the sound. The 5u4 is a wetter sound the 5ar4 after and more forward.


----------



## darktooth8

ampsandsound said:


> Depends on the sound. The 5u4 is a wetter sound the 5ar4 after and more forward.


Thanks! I ordered some on ebay as I've been eyeing them. I'll try it out!
I got my nautilus second hand and I have to say, thank you. I can't tell you how much I enjoy it.


----------



## duranxv

@ampsandsound -  Justin, any opinions on using Elrog 5U4G's in the Nautilus?  

This is the specs they indicate on their website, it's a German tube maker that uses thoriated tungsten

*ER5U4G*

Filament Voltage .................................................................5 V

Filament Current .................................................................3 A

Peak Inverse Voltage .....................................................1550 V

Peak Current per Plate ........................................................1 A

DC Output Current (L-Input) ......................................275 mA

DC Output Current (C-Input) ......................................275 mA


----------



## ampsandsound

One person tried and had arching. Arching would either mean a bad rectifier or that it can’t handle the input cap value.  We use 30uf on the first cap. This should be totally safe for all 5ar4s and 5u4s but not 274s.  Could have been a fluke but why change. U52s instead.  I have a thing for JAN 5U4s personally.


----------



## darktooth8

I placed NOS RCA 5U4G into the nautilus and I can definitely hear what you mean by the sound is wetter vs the mullard 5ar4s. I was imagining adding a liquidness and viscousness to the sound, but in fact its almost just enough to wet the surface. Love the recommendation.
Do you have a favorite tube for the kt88 slot? I got the genelex gold lions this week and there is this slight hum that is there sometimes, not all the time. I wonder if I need to burn the tubes in more, they have about 20 hours on them.
I really really like the KR audio KT88s. Nice silent background and the soundstage is expansiveand airy but still powerful. Upper frequencies are rounded slightly and gives that glow and hum around your ears in the right frequencies, especially in the mids on the zmf atrium. I've also tried the JJ KT88s, the telefunken (rebranded jj kt88s with "cryotreatment") which I thought were ok, but I get microphonics in those


----------



## ampsandsound

Tungsol 6550 nos are the easy choice.  
GEC TT21 is the all out choice.  
I love 6l6gc. But that’s about chasing tone.


----------



## linshu1992

darktooth8 said:


> I placed NOS RCA 5U4G into the nautilus and I can definitely hear what you mean by the sound is wetter vs the mullard 5ar4s. I was imagining adding a liquidness and viscousness to the sound, but in fact its almost just enough to wet the surface. Love the recommendation.
> Do you have a favorite tube for the kt88 slot? I got the genelex gold lions this week and there is this slight hum that is there sometimes, not all the time. I wonder if I need to burn the tubes in more, they have about 20 hours on them.
> I really really like the KR audio KT88s. Nice silent background and the soundstage is expansiveand airy but still powerful. Upper frequencies are rounded slightly and gives that glow and hum around your ears in the right frequencies, especially in the mids on the zmf atrium. I've also tried the JJ KT88s, the telefunken (rebranded jj kt88s with "cryotreatment") which I thought were ok, but I get microphonics in those


My fav is actually the JJ kt88s. Compared to gold lion or Mullards, they have the widest soundstage but with a little thinner mids. The old pair has some microphonics which got super annoying and I bought new ones. No noise at all. The sound got tighter and cleaner. I was tempted to buy a new set of all the tubes now.


----------



## darktooth8

ampsandsound said:


> Tungsol 6550 nos are the easy choice.
> GEC TT21 is the all out choice.
> I love 6l6gc. But that’s about chasing tone.


Cool. thank you! I'll give these a try. The current KR audio tubes I'm using are kind of expensive and rare to find even on ebay


----------



## duranxv

ampsandsound said:


> One person tried and had arching. Arching would either mean a bad rectifier or that it can’t handle the input cap value.  We use 30uf on the first cap. This should be totally safe for all 5ar4s and 5u4s but not 274s.  Could have been a fluke but why change. U52s instead.  I have a thing for JAN 5U4s personally.



Good to know!  What's your opinion on 1950's GEC U52's?


----------



## WillieB

intedinator said:


> Keep us posted.  Very interested in your results.


After about a week with the 807's in, they remain one of my favorite power tubes that I have heard in the Bigger Ben. They are not without their eccentricities, though. Warm-up seems pretty critical so I give them a few minutes to calm down. This is always a good, idea, but seems more notable with 807. They also make some subtle weeping or whining sounds for a couple seconds here and there. It would never be audible over music. For example, I spend hours in headphones every day while I work from home. I might hear it happen for a second or so twice a day when the album runs out and I'm sitting in silence for a bit, but haven't bothered to remove the headphones, etc... I've heard worse out of many other varieties of tubes that are commonly used in this amp, but thought it was worth mentioning. As for any sign of red-plating or any other undesirable issues, I haven't really had any. I did have a really faint electrical buzzing sound when I first powered them on, but slightly moving the adapter top-cap wire resolved that.  Once the adapters heat up and cool down with the tubes a couple times, that all seemed to stop. I will say that it's apparent that these tubes were more designed to be installed once and run until replacement is required, as all tubes are I'm sure, but with these, tube rolling would be problematic. The top cap moves on one of mine after just installing it into the adapter and we all know what happens if it breaks lose from the wire/post. They are quite delicate. If you're going to try these or the 5933 (short mil-spec version from later years) I suggest buying a set of adapters and install the tubes into them permanently. Don't remove them until you're done with those tubes. If you get away with removing the top-cap more than a couple times without breaking it, I would be surprised. So you can tube roll these, but just buy a set of adapters for each set of 870W/5933 that you plan on owning. 
So far I put at least 30 hours of actual listening on them since initial install and probably an additional 5-10 hours of runtime when I didn't have music playing. Nostalgia aside, I really like these and feel that these are among my top 3 power tubes that I have tried with my Bigger Ben. One noteworthy combination is the Kennerton Rognir. I have never heard them sound better than with these tubes. I used the same NOS Winged C 5U4G equiv the whole time and the same long plate NOS RCA 12AX7. This tube compliment with the Rognir is the kind of combo that we search for and only seldom find. Just before swapping out of the 807, I tried a couple other 12AX7 and one ECC803S and they were almost identical on the level of enjoyment so it seems that the 807 just get along extremely well with Rognir in general. I also spent considerable time with the ZMF Atrium and it was also great. It was at least as good as any other experience with that I've had with that HP. So far, those are the two that got almost all of the time, but more to come.
I decided to swap into a couple other favorite tube combos today just to see if these things had me under a spell or if there was really something to it. I can say that a couple of the combos were right up there with the 807s right away, but none quite get to the level that I experienced with the 807/Rognir combo. I may change my mind once I get more time and try more headphones, but so far, these have provided a great experience and I would recommend them. Just heed Justin's warning about sticking with Mil-spec/JAN/W versions or just go with the 5933(They're all mil-spec from my understanding) and stay with 5U4G for rectification since the BB is at the upper limit of voltage spec for the 807. I don't have any 5933, but I found a set of those in NOS JAN Sylvania for 36.99 and I have them as well as another set of adapters on the way. I will post my findings on those once I have some time with them. Sorry for the long write-up, but I figured some details were in order with this being a non-standard tube choice.

Tonight I am running a favorite setup - Winged C 6550 with NOS Tesla ECC803S out front and new TAD 5AR4 redbase rectifier:


----------



## DenverW

WillieB said:


> After about a week with the 807's in, they remain one of my favorite power tubes that I have heard in the Bigger Ben. They are not without their eccentricities, though. Warm-up seems pretty critical so I give them a few minutes to calm down. This is always a good, idea, but seems more notable with 807. They also make some subtle weeping or whining sounds for a couple seconds here and there. It would never be audible over music. For example, I spend hours in headphones every day while I work from home. I might hear it happen for a second or so twice a day when the album runs out and I'm sitting in silence for a bit, but haven't bothered to remove the headphones, etc... I've heard worse out of many other varieties of tubes that are commonly used in this amp, but thought it was worth mentioning. As for any sign of red-plating or any other undesirable issues, I haven't really had any. I did have a really faint electrical buzzing sound when I first powered them on, but slightly moving the adapter top-cap wire resolved that.  Once the adapters heat up and cool down with the tubes a couple times, that all seemed to stop. I will say that it's apparent that these tubes were more designed to be installed once and run until replacement is required, as all tubes are I'm sure, but with these, tube rolling would be problematic. The top cap moves on one of mine after just installing it into the adapter and we all know what happens if it breaks lose from the wire/post. They are quite delicate. If you're going to try these or the 5933 (short mil-spec version from later years) I suggest buying a set of adapters and install the tubes into them permanently. Don't remove them until you're done with those tubes. If you get away with removing the top-cap more than a couple times without breaking it, I would be surprised. So you can tube roll these, but just buy a set of adapters for each set of 870W/5933 that you plan on owning.
> So far I put at least 30 hours of actual listening on them since initial install and probably an additional 5-10 hours of runtime when I didn't have music playing. Nostalgia aside, I really like these and feel that these are among my top 3 power tubes that I have tried with my Bigger Ben. One noteworthy combination is the Kennerton Rognir. I have never heard them sound better than with these tubes. I used the same NOS Winged C 5U4G equiv the whole time and the same long plate NOS RCA 12AX7. This tube compliment with the Rognir is the kind of combo that we search for and only seldom find. Just before swapping out of the 807, I tried a couple other 12AX7 and one ECC803S and they were almost identical on the level of enjoyment so it seems that the 807 just get along extremely well with Rognir in general. I also spent considerable time with the ZMF Atrium and it was also great. It was at least as good as any other experience with that I've had with that HP. So far, those are the two that got almost all of the time, but more to come.
> I decided to swap into a couple other favorite tube combos today just to see if these things had me under a spell or if there was really something to it. I can say that a couple of the combos were right up there with the 807s right away, but none quite get to the level that I experienced with the 807/Rognir combo. I may change my mind once I get more time and try more headphones, but so far, these have provided a great experience and I would recommend them. Just heed Justin's warning about sticking with Mil-spec/JAN/W versions or just go with the 5933(They're all mil-spec from my understanding) and stay with 5U4G for rectification since the BB is at the upper limit of voltage spec for the 807. I don't have any 5933, but I found a set of those in NOS JAN Sylvania for 36.99 and I have them as well as another set of adapters on the way. I will post my findings on those once I have some time with them. Sorry for the long write-up, but I figured some details were in order with this being a non-standard tube choice.
> 
> Tonight I am running a favorite setup - Winged C 6550 with NOS Tesla ECC803S out front and new TAD 5AR4 redbase rectifier:


Where did you grab your adapters, and will the same adapter work for the 5933?


----------



## WillieB

DenverW said:


> Where did you grab your adapters, and will the same adapter work for the 5933?


I got the adapters from ebay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/283154735163

If the link doesn't work, search for the amptata_audio seller or search for 807 to 6L6 adapter. They showed a few weeks out for delivery for me, but took about 10 days. The 5933 is just the military version of the 807. Although there are mil-spec/JAN/USN/USW versions of the big bottle 807 as well. The 5933 is pretty much identically, electrically speaking, with the same plate structure just in a smaller envelope with the getter moved to the top or side. They are also ruggedized according to some sources. Same adapters work. I found another adapter on a Amazon for a little less, but the delivery time was about the same at best. https://www.amazon.com/JEMOSA-Convert-Socket-Electronic-Adapter/dp/B07NVN9B5R

I went with Amptata as I have some of their other tube adapters and tube taps and they have always been pretty good.


----------



## intedinator

WillieB said:


> After about a week with the 807's in, they remain one of my favorite power tubes that I have heard in the Bigger Ben. They are not without their eccentricities, though. Warm-up seems pretty critical so I give them a few minutes to calm down. This is always a good, idea, but seems more notable with 807. They also make some subtle weeping or whining sounds for a couple seconds here and there. It would never be audible over music. For example, I spend hours in headphones every day while I work from home. I might hear it happen for a second or so twice a day when the album runs out and I'm sitting in silence for a bit, but haven't bothered to remove the headphones, etc... I've heard worse out of many other varieties of tubes that are commonly used in this amp, but thought it was worth mentioning. As for any sign of red-plating or any other undesirable issues, I haven't really had any. I did have a really faint electrical buzzing sound when I first powered them on, but slightly moving the adapter top-cap wire resolved that.  Once the adapters heat up and cool down with the tubes a couple times, that all seemed to stop. I will say that it's apparent that these tubes were more designed to be installed once and run until replacement is required, as all tubes are I'm sure, but with these, tube rolling would be problematic. The top cap moves on one of mine after just installing it into the adapter and we all know what happens if it breaks lose from the wire/post. They are quite delicate. If you're going to try these or the 5933 (short mil-spec version from later years) I suggest buying a set of adapters and install the tubes into them permanently. Don't remove them until you're done with those tubes. If you get away with removing the top-cap more than a couple times without breaking it, I would be surprised. So you can tube roll these, but just buy a set of adapters for each set of 870W/5933 that you plan on owning.
> So far I put at least 30 hours of actual listening on them since initial install and probably an additional 5-10 hours of runtime when I didn't have music playing. Nostalgia aside, I really like these and feel that these are among my top 3 power tubes that I have tried with my Bigger Ben. One noteworthy combination is the Kennerton Rognir. I have never heard them sound better than with these tubes. I used the same NOS Winged C 5U4G equiv the whole time and the same long plate NOS RCA 12AX7. This tube compliment with the Rognir is the kind of combo that we search for and only seldom find. Just before swapping out of the 807, I tried a couple other 12AX7 and one ECC803S and they were almost identical on the level of enjoyment so it seems that the 807 just get along extremely well with Rognir in general. I also spent considerable time with the ZMF Atrium and it was also great. It was at least as good as any other experience with that I've had with that HP. So far, those are the two that got almost all of the time, but more to come.
> I decided to swap into a couple other favorite tube combos today just to see if these things had me under a spell or if there was really something to it. I can say that a couple of the combos were right up there with the 807s right away, but none quite get to the level that I experienced with the 807/Rognir combo. I may change my mind once I get more time and try more headphones, but so far, these have provided a great experience and I would recommend them. Just heed Justin's warning about sticking with Mil-spec/JAN/W versions or just go with the 5933(They're all mil-spec from my understanding) and stay with 5U4G for rectification since the BB is at the upper limit of voltage spec for the 807. I don't have any 5933, but I found a set of those in NOS JAN Sylvania for 36.99 and I have them as well as another set of adapters on the way. I will post my findings on those once I have some time with them. Sorry for the long write-up, but I figured some details were in order with this being a non-standard tube choice.
> 
> Tonight I am running a favorite setup - Winged C 6550 with NOS Tesla ECC803S out front and new TAD 5AR4 redbase rectifier:


Thanks for the update.  Looking forward to following your experience here.


----------



## darktooth8

I got the tung sol 6550s in today! These are from the 70s and NOS NIB. The low end hits harder than the KR audio KT88s, and I'm surprised at how much bass I'm actually getting with the ZMF atriums hooked up. Really enjoyable listen, but I think I still prefer the midrange fullness that the KR audio KT88s offer. I'll burn these babies in a bit longer and see if the tone changes at all. Beautiful tube!!


----------



## darktooth8

Ok I like the tung sols quite a lot more with the 5u4g rectifier tubes than the with 5ar4s. Together with the 5ar4s to my ears the combination was too dry. the 5u4g adds some of that wet musicality back while maintaining the more precise power of the tung sols vs the more general power of the kt88s... 

amazing to hear the nautilus this good in a different way


----------



## bagofolives

I've always preferred using 12au7 + 6l6G with dynamic headphones over 12ax7 + 6550. I use the latter predominantly with my speakers and planars though. I like the extra play I have with the dynamics on the former though.


----------



## WillieB

So after running a couple of other familiar tubes for a few days, I switched back to the 807. Like I said before, I'm trying to see past the nostalgia here. I have to say I really do like them. They continue to operate trouble free. I spent a couple more days with them and at this point, I can add Verite Open and LSA HP-1 to the list of HPs that are well suited with them. I also circled back to the Atrium and it is even better than I remembered. This time I used the same 5U4G Winged C equiv rectifier with a GE long plate 12AX7 out front. The GE is a really good tube for some additional tone in the mids. It just brings out the textures a bit. I am satisfied that the 807s will bring reliable listening going forward, but I'm not sure about life span. That is reportedly an issue when using them as a sub in higher voltage amps.

Anyway, on to the next thing. I got this set of USN 5933WA in today and got them installed with another set of adapters. These are Sylvania/USA made. They are quite similar in character so far, but without the quirks that I experienced with the 807(strange noises on the first few warm ups/uses, etc...). I am running these with a NOS tesla ECC803S out front and a NOS Tung-Sol 5U4GB that I just got out front. BTW, this rectifier seems to be especially well suited to this amp somehow(?) It offers a different take on tube combinations that I was quite familiar with. The 5933 seem uneventful so far and I have used them mostly with Omen II speakers since I liked the 807s so much with them. I am just getting into trying some headphones with them, but so far, so good. Cheers all!


----------



## asaprod

Hey there!
If anyone is looking for some NOS driver tubes 12SN7 or equivalent for their Kenzie/Ovation let me know, I have a few great ones! Those are absolutely fantastic, a true step up compared to the Stock tubes.
Cheers,
Anthony


----------



## asaprod

I actually also have a pair of Sylvania Output tubes, with their adapters...


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## bigjako

asaprod said:


> Hey there!
> If anyone is looking for some NOS driver tubes 12SN7 or equivalent for their Kenzie/Ovation let me know, I have a few great ones! Those are absolutely fantastic, a true step up compared to the Stock tubes.
> Cheers,
> Anthony


I have some nice NOS ones too, a bunch of RCAs and Tung Sols.  What do you have? I’d be willing to swap my RCAs.


----------



## DenverW

So, while at canjam SoCal, I had the opportunity to attend Justin's seminar on tubes.  It was a fun time, and I would highly recommend it if you have the opportunity in the future (and we can convince him to do it again).  One of the best parts was talking about tube rolling, and I had the chance to ask him after the class what he'd recommend for the Bigger Ben.  He mentioned a couple tubes, and one was the the 6889 tube and adapter, mentioning that the bass is a strong point of the tube.

I picked up a pair of tung sol labeled 6889, but to my understanding Bendix is the only manufacturer of these (@ampsandsound  can you confirm?).  I'll have a picture or two soon enough, and some better impressions.  A bit amusing at the moment, because I'm using the two 6889 tubes, a welded plate tungsram 12au7, and a USAA 596 tube.  So...each socket has an adapter.  That's some tube rolling.

One hour impression:  very clear tube, plays without background noise, bass is solid and clean, and there is good quantity.  Separation is at least as good as the 6550.  Justin, I appreciate the recommendation!


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## DJJEZ (Oct 19, 2022)

Been waiting patiently for @ampsandsound to make these videos. Good stuff justin.
.


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## ampsandsound

Thanks.  Work in progress. I wish time was kinder to me. That said… really pleased with how they came out.


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## DJJEZ

Finally a red october review!

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/superi...m0tyOV7OFYzWgeqO2S24ge3qD2yJ1aU-rP2ITNP18h728


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## Scarydog

ampsandsound said:


> Thanks.  Work in progress. I wish time was kinder to me. That said… really pleased with how they came out.


The are both really great - well done!

Love your passion!


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## darktooth8

Awesome videos. Did not think it was possible to love my nautilus even more, but now I do. Amazing craftsmanship. I feel lucky to get one of the early non textured models - it just screams of the 50s era. I'll just have to baby mine from scratches! 
I got some winged C kt88s and loving how the noise floor has dropped even further which I didn't think possible. The real cost of the nautilus is in the tubes you buy, which apparently, I can't stop trying the variants of sound I can get out of this amazing machine.


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## paradoxper

DJJEZ said:


> Been waiting patiently for @ampsandsound to make these videos. Good stuff justin.
> .



Great video. Always love seeing the turret boards! First-class.


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## Sebastien Chiu (Oct 21, 2022)

Two new products dropping from ampsandsound I have not posted here yet:

Kenzie Monos  - low power mono amps designed for efficient speakers. Much of the quality we know the brand for,  for a much more digestible price ($10,000).

Black Pearl - 2 Channel version of the Red October (same price as RO).


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## DJJEZ

Sebastien Chiu said:


> Two new products dropping from ampsandsound I have not posted here yet:
> 
> Kenzie Monos  - low power mono amps designed for efficient speakers. Much of the quality ampsandsound for a much more digestible price ($10,000).
> 
> Black Pearl - 2 Channel version of the Nautilus


Black pearl is  the 2 channel version of the red october


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## Sebastien Chiu

DJJEZ said:


> Black pearl is  the 2 channel version of the red october



You are correct - my mistake!


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## darktooth8 (Oct 21, 2022)

Curious what is the difference between dual mono and 2 channel ? is this mostly for speakers?


----------



## gonintendo

darktooth8 said:


> Curious what is the difference between dual mono and 2 channel ? is this mostly for speakers?


2-channel just means speakers generally, dual mono means two power amps, one per channel (usually for speakers but some crazy folks use them for headphones too 😜)


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## ampsandsound

Thanks for the great feedback. 
Black Pearl is a bit more complex than meets the eye. It’s actually sporting new output transformers which are optimized for 2ch operation. New iron development was exhausting… lots of time with the test mules. 
It’s price hasn’t been an announced but similar the the calypso. 

The Kenzie monos are like the soulo but only 2ch.  New output transformer too. Meant for high efficiency speakers and those wanting the. Triode sound of 45s.  

The calypso is a like a stereo Bryce than a nautilus. Specialist for 2ch and using conventional tubes. KT88s and alike.  

The black Pearl is akin the a red October but is rocking new transformers more specialized to 2ch gear.  

We havnt don’t a lot of development work on your 2ch for several years and are trying to refocus efforts. 

From a personal audio stand point… I’m so pleased where we are. I finally have enough transformers to no worry for 1-2 years at a time. All custom and proprietary to us.


----------



## DenverW

So I ended up ordering a "Booster Box" from the ampsandsound website on Thursday after speaking with Justin at canjam and listening to them hooked up to the amps at his table.  He mentioned that the difference in sound quality should be audible based on the output from the booster box.

So, first of all, I ordered on Thursday, and it arrived today; Saturday.  Yep, that's right.  From order to arrival: two days.  Insanely good.  I mean, like REALLY, REALLY good.  I'm used to checking next week to see if the order is even processed with most businesses.  Hats off for that!

Moving on to the booster box, it arrived well packaged.  I had a little initial confusion because the input/output are not labeled for the RCA cables, and of course I choose wrong initially.  A quick peek at the image on the website corrected me.  Running from my PC to a matrix x spdif to a Audiomirror Tubadour iii se into the booster box into the Bigger Ben there is a clear increase in power.  Volume knob is even closer to the starting point than normal .  

Sound is clear, impactful, and extremely well separated.  It's doing exactly what I was hoping: better sound from my dac.  That's a big win for me, because I love the lush, musical sound of my dac and the bigger ben.  I'm going to have to recommend this little pre-amp.


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## LegatoB

After giving my intial thoughts about the Bigger Ben V2 I thought about how it was a little odd of me to say I was more impressed with the Agartha early on when having both amps. After some time, I actually think they complement each other real nicely, and I’m beginning to tube roll with the Bigger Ben as well, and just picked up the 5U4G. Something I noticed is that notes can sometimes seem to fade and draw away into this big soundscape, but at the same time, it sound are very transparent / clear neutrality. It’s really nice when I hear this with say like a clean piano note or bass note “cleanly fading away” Can’t wait to tube roll more on both amps. Very nice.

Thanks Justin and all. Look forward to rewinding the thread and finding some tube combos for my amps.


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## Scarydog

Quick question for everyone. What is the rule of thumb for which impedence tap to choose on the amp. Would it be the closest to the impedence of the headphones? i.e. if the heaphones are 40ohm I would choose the 32ohm tap?


----------



## gonintendo

Scarydog said:


> Quick question for everyone. What is the rule of thumb for which impedence tap to choose on the amp. Would it be the closest to the impedence of the headphones? i.e. if the heaphones are 40ohm I would choose the 32ohm tap?


For dynamics: whatever sounds best, higher Z will give a less damped, bloomier sound if that’s what you want 
For low sensitivity planars: lowest possible for maximum current delivery


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## Scarydog

gonintendo said:


> For dynamics: whatever sounds best, higher Z will give a less damped, bloomier sound if that’s what you want
> For low sensitivity planars: lowest possible for maximum current delivery


Thanks - that is super helpful!


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## gonintendo

Scarydog said:


> Thanks - that is super helpful!


Higher than the headphones impedance is probably too much though in any case


----------



## nwavesailor

My Bigger Ben will be listed in the classifieds in next few minutes.


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## LegionofDoom (Oct 24, 2022)

2.5 questions….

1). Is the Bigger Ben 2 slightly quieter than the Ovation from a noise perspective at the 300 ohm tap?  The A&S website says so (480 vs 540uV).  Just want to confirm that.

2). Can anyone provide sound impression differences to expect on the ZMF VC between these two amps?  If your music genre is mainly rock and blues, would one have a notably different experience over the other on the VCs?


----------



## WillieB

I've had these TS 7581A since before my BB ever arrived and haven't spent a whole lot of time with them. I am definitely starting to understand the increased interest in this tube from builders. They have very even tone with a modern sound, but they can be softened a bit with a 5U4G. They seem to have become a new favorite just as they became harder to get. The pre-amp tube is interestingly a fake/counterfeit Tesla ECC803S. It's internals pretty closely match those of a current JJ, but I like it better than most any JJ that I've heard. It's actually one of my favorite tubes for this amp. Not bad for $18 . The seller thinks they were likely made in Slovakia (or the area that now is Slovakia) some time ago, but who knows. Have a great Friday all!


----------



## cats4cans

WillieB said:


> I've had these TS 7581A since before my BB ever arrived and haven't spent a whole lot of time with them. I am definitely starting to understand the increased interest in this tube from builders. They have very even tone with a modern sound, but they can be softened a bit with a 5U4G. They seem to have become a new favorite just as they became harder to get.


I liked the 7581A a lot in my speaker amp, but I had a hard time keeping a full octet operational. That amp might be a bit persnickety though. I’m saving the tubes for rolling when I finally pick up an amp that only needs a pair. That blue glow is a nice bonus too.


----------



## Dawgfish

WillieB said:


> I've had these TS 7581A since before my BB ever arrived and haven't spent a whole lot of time with them. I am definitely starting to understand the increased interest in this tube from builders. They have very even tone with a modern sound, but they can be softened a bit with a 5U4G. They seem to have become a new favorite just as they became harder to get. The pre-amp tube is interestingly a fake/counterfeit Tesla ECC803S. It's internals pretty closely match those of a current JJ, but I like it better than most any JJ that I've heard. It's actually one of my favorite tubes for this amp. Not bad for $18 . The seller thinks they were likely made in Slovakia (or the area that now is Slovakia) some time ago, but who knows. Have a great Friday all!


I've been trying the TS 7581A in my Mogwai OG and I'm really liking the sound.  They surprisingly sound as good as the NOS Mullard EL34 XF2s and NOS GE 6CA7 fat bottles I've tried in it to date (just got it this week).


----------



## darktooth8

Dawgfish said:


> I've been trying the TS 7581A in my Mogwai OG and I'm really liking the sound.  They surprisingly sound as good as the NOS Mullard EL34 XF2s and NOS GE 6CA7 fat bottles I've tried in it to date (just got it this week).


The 7581A drops in for KT88s? These look cool


----------



## Dawgfish (Oct 29, 2022)

darktooth8 said:


> The 7581A drops in for KT88s? These look cool


It's a 6l6gc type.  So far since I've been mainly using my ZMFs with the Mogwai and they don't need a ton of power to drive, I've been mainly using 6l6 or EL34 types for lower noise floor.  I'll try a 6550/KT88/KT90 type when I use planars.


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## WillieB (Oct 29, 2022)

darktooth8 said:


> The 7581A drops in for KT88s? These look cool


I think they are a drop-in on any amp that uses 6L6GC in either configuration, UL or Triode, but not sure about amps that are configured to use KT88 in UL mode. Amps that are exclusively using Tetrodes and Pentodes in Triode configuration can very likely work with them. I know they can be used in Mogwai and BB.


----------



## darktooth8

Very cool! I think it should be ok in the nautilus then if it works in the BB. I started this all off thinking I'd just use stock tubes and now I want to try all of em. Thanks


----------



## MLPhoenix

darktooth8 said:


> Very cool! I think it should be ok in the nautilus then if it works in the BB. I started this all off thinking I'd just use stock tubes and now I want to try all of em. Thanks


I can confirm they work very well in the Nautilus. Definitely one of my favorites.


----------



## WillieB

darktooth8 said:


> Very cool! I think it should be ok in the nautilus then if it works in the BB. I started this all off thinking I'd just use stock tubes and now I want to try all of em. Thanks


I know what you mean. I never thought I would end up with so many tubes, but it's borderline obsession at this point. It's fun finding a great combo of tube/headphone/music. It's my favorite part of the hobby besides the actual enjoyment of music.


----------



## duranxv

WillieB said:


> I've had these TS 7581A since before my BB ever arrived and haven't spent a whole lot of time with them. I am definitely starting to understand the increased interest in this tube from builders. They have very even tone with a modern sound, but they can be softened a bit with a 5U4G. They seem to have become a new favorite just as they became harder to get. The pre-amp tube is interestingly a fake/counterfeit Tesla ECC803S. It's internals pretty closely match those of a current JJ, but I like it better than most any JJ that I've heard. It's actually one of my favorite tubes for this amp. Not bad for $18 . The seller thinks they were likely made in Slovakia (or the area that now is Slovakia) some time ago, but who knows. Have a great Friday all!



You got me interested as well!


----------



## Smallpie

Does a bigger Ben and abyss 1266 match up well? Has anyone tried that combo and liked it?


----------



## ampsandsound

Smallpie said:


> Does a bigger Ben and abyss 1266 match up well? Has anyone tried that combo and liked it?


Sure does!


----------



## ozziegurkan

I’m really enjoying 16ohm tap with my Susvara on the Bigger Ben v2. I have Sophia Electric KT88s and Sylvania 5751 Black Plates. I’m driving it with a Yggy LIM and Pre90. It sounds absolutely sublime. Really hard to put down the headphones once it starts thumping.

Am I missing out by not having a 300B?


----------



## ampsandsound

Bigger ben vs Agartha... its a sonic preference. (300b Agartha vs Bigger ben is on par, just preference)
Next level up things improve alot more.... If you like things thick... dense the Nautilus is the right choice... similar sonically to what you have but much improved. 
Where as the Red October is more detailed and has better soundstage.


----------



## cats4cans

I know this is a headphone forum, and these are primarily headphone amps, but since they have speaker outputs, I’m curious how they compare in the greater scheme of things in that role. If I were to replace my speaker amp that could help justify the expense. (Oh, the lies we tell on ourselves in this hobby.) What speaker amps have you compared (with what speakers)? I imagine there are a few Decware comparisons. 

My speakers are plenty efficient enough, Zu Soul Supreme. I’ve run them from an LTA MZ3 (<1W into 16 ohm) to almost sufficient for all occasions volume, but usually I run the MZ3 into a Primaluna power amp or a Schiit Aegir. I’m primarily considering a Mogwai or Bigger Ben, but I’m still at that wide eyed, want to try everything, biting off more than I can chew stage of my headphone journey.


----------



## Smallpie

Anyone try out a 1266 with a mogwai family amp? Good synergy?


----------



## bdh

cats4cans said:


> I know this is a headphone forum, and these are primarily headphone amps, but since they have speaker outputs, I’m curious how they compare in the greater scheme of things in that role. If I were to replace my speaker amp that could help justify the expense. (Oh, the lies we tell on ourselves in this hobby.) What speaker amps have you compared (with what speakers)? I imagine there are a few Decware comparisons.
> 
> My speakers are plenty efficient enough, Zu Soul Supreme. I’ve run them from an LTA MZ3 (<1W into 16 ohm) to almost sufficient for all occasions volume, but usually I run the MZ3 into a Primaluna power amp or a Schiit Aegir. I’m primarily considering a Mogwai or Bigger Ben, but I’m still at that wide eyed, want to try everything, biting off more than I can chew stage of my headphone journey.



I'm using a Mogwai SE v1.5 (12ax7 + KT66) with Horning speakers and love it.  No issues or problems and everything sounds natural and exciting.  I've tried lots of different types and brands of tubes, and of the four or five different types of output tubes, I like the KT66 the best.  I have tried different amps with these speaker though.  The 45-based speaker amps (1.5W) I have don't have enough output, even bi-amped.  And the Ovation has even less power.  I do like the Ovation as a headphone amp better than Mogwai, and based on my preference for single-ended triodes, would most likely prefer the Mogwai to the Bigger Ben.

As far as Ampsandsound's reputation as speaker amps, here are a couple of reviews of some higher-end models, one of which is also a headphone amp:

https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2021/07/23/ampsandsound-zion-monoblocks-review/
https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2022/09/25/ampsandsound-nautilus-integrated-review/


----------



## ItHz

bdh said:


> Mogwai SE v1.5 (12ax7 + KT66)


What's v1.5?  AFAIK Rev 1 uses an 8-pin front end; Rev 2 uses a 9-pin front end.



bdh said:


> based on my preference for single-ended triodes, would most likely prefer the Mogwai to the Bigger Ben


Both are SET.  The Forge/Mogwai OG, Mogwai SE, Bigger Ben, and Nautilus are all based on the Mogwai circuit; each is a different rung on the ladder of components and implementation.


----------



## bdh

I bought it used, but I was told it has improvements from the v1, but before Justin switched to the 9-pin input.  I'm using an adapter for the 12ax7.

Ah, for some reason I thought the Bigger Ben was a pentode configuration.  My mistake.


----------



## WillieB

cats4cans said:


> I know this is a headphone forum, and these are primarily headphone amps, but since they have speaker outputs, I’m curious how they compare in the greater scheme of things in that role. If I were to replace my speaker amp that could help justify the expense. (Oh, the lies we tell on ourselves in this hobby.) What speaker amps have you compared (with what speakers)? I imagine there are a few Decware comparisons.
> 
> My speakers are plenty efficient enough, Zu Soul Supreme. I’ve run them from an LTA MZ3 (<1W into 16 ohm) to almost sufficient for all occasions volume, but usually I run the MZ3 into a Primaluna power amp or a Schiit Aegir. I’m primarily considering a Mogwai or Bigger Ben, but I’m still at that wide eyed, want to try everything, biting off more than I can chew stage of my headphone journey.



I use my Bigger Ben v2 with Zu Omen II almost daily. I seldom listen loud, because I have them setup in my office and it's rather small, but the few times that I have turned them up, there is more power than I will ever need in my application. I seem to get along with any tubes that I've tried. The only limitation that I can think of for some may be that it's fixed at 8 ohm impendence for speakers. The Omen II, being 12 ohm, sound the best that I've heard them. I have other speaker amps, but I bought the Zu's for use with the BB and that's exactly where they belong. I will say that I have recently discovered that it is important to make sure the BB in particular is getting a proper input signal. The website says it needs 3.1V to make full power and that is important. It definitely benefits from a hot front-end. I recently added a SUT and it is more settled with even better dynamics now.


----------



## cats4cans (Nov 4, 2022)

WillieB said:


> The only limitation that I can think of for some may be that it's fixed at 8 ohm impendence for speakers. The Omen II, being 12 ohm, sound the best that I've heard them. I have other speaker amps, but I bought the Zu's for use with the BB and that's exactly where they belong. I will say that I have recently discovered that it is important to make sure the BB in particular is getting a proper input signal. The website says it needs 3.1V to make full power and that is important. It definitely benefits from a hot front-end. I recently added a SUT and it is more settled with even better dynamics now.


I’m not sure how much of an effect the 8 ohm taps will have. I’m using 16 ohm speaker taps now. It’s been a while since I compared the 8, but I vaguely remember having a clear preference even if I don’t remember why. I missed the high input sensitivity though. Funny enough there’s a review of the MZ3 where they mention using it as a pre into the Bigger Ben and thinking the combination had too much gain, but that was for headphones not speakers. I think that was also before the the MZ3 had the option to double the number of steps for finer volume control.

I’ll just have to be patient until I can listen for myself.


----------



## ampsandsound

cats4cans said:


> I know this is a headphone forum, and these are primarily headphone amps, but since they have speaker outputs, I’m curious how they compare in the greater scheme of things in that role. If I were to replace my speaker amp that could help justify the expense. (Oh, the lies we tell on ourselves in this hobby.) What speaker amps have you compared (with what speakers)? I imagine there are a few Decware comparisons.
> 
> My speakers are plenty efficient enough, Zu Soul Supreme. I’ve run them from an LTA MZ3 (<1W into 16 ohm) to almost sufficient for all occasions volume, but usually I run the MZ3 into a Primaluna power amp or a Schiit Aegir. I’m primarily considering a Mogwai or Bigger Ben, but I’m still at that wide eyed, want to try everything, biting off more than I can chew stage of my headphone journey


I’ve had the soul supremes.  They were pretty insanely good. Esp on a 16ohm tapp.  You could request whatever amp you chose to have the speakers binding posts wired for 16ohm.  It’s an esoteric choice. But you have such amazing speakers.  They will in fact sound better on the 16ohm tapp


----------



## ampsandsound

LegionofDoom said:


> 2.5 questions….
> 
> 1). Is the Bigger Ben 2 slightly quieter than the Ovation from a noise perspective at the 300 ohm tap?  The A&S website says so (480 vs 540uV).  Just want to confirm that.
> 
> 2). Can anyone provide sound impression differences to expect on the ZMF VC between these two amps?  If your music genre is mainly rock and blues, would one have a notably different experience over the other on the VCs?



Specs may need an update.  It’s just me, so lots of hats to wear. The ovation is quieter.  But the bigger Ben can change power and noise based on tube choices.   There is no issue on an ovation rev2 or a bigger Ben rev2.  Both will do it well.


----------



## ampsandsound

darktooth8 said:


> The 7581A drops in for KT88s? These look cool


It’s really a super duper 6l6gc. Was spec’d for use in the Harmon KardonnCitation V.  It’s a kick ass tube. In our amps you can use without issue.  If want more classic sound the Tungsol 6l6gc str. But very different yet 6l6s and made by Tungsol.


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## cats4cans

ampsandsound said:


> I’ve had the soul supremes.  They were pretty insanely good. Esp on a 16ohm tapp.  You could request whatever amp you chose to have the speakers binding posts wired for 16ohm.  It’s an esoteric choice. But you have such amazing speakers.  They will in fact sound better on the 16ohm tapp


I think I saw Soul Supremes in the background of some of your media, but didn’t remember you mentioning them directly. Nice to get confirmation. With your tidy wiring I was assuming switching the speaker outs between the 8 and 16 taps would be fairly straightforward if needed. I’m pretty committed to the Souls Supremes though. They’re only my 3rd set of speakers, but I had the first for 10 years and the second for 20. I’m fairly new to headphones, so I’m still trying a bunch of stuff but liking it all a lot.


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## ampsandsound

You might consider upgrading your Souls to the Jupiter Coupling cap... might already have... I really liked the improvement it made.


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## duranxv

So after using the Tung Sol 7581A's (thanks @WillieB for the recommendation) for a few days, I'm seriously impressed.  I consider them just about as good as my NOS Tung Sol 6550's which is high praise indeed.  I'm a sucker for the blue glow as well   Setup is 7581A's, a 1960's Philips Heerlen 7062 and 1950's NOS GEC U52's.


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## WillieB

duranxv said:


> So after using the Tung Sol 7581A's (thanks @WillieB for the recommendation) for a few days, I'm seriously impressed.  I consider them just about as good as my NOS Tung Sol 6550's which is high praise indeed.  I'm a sucker for the blue glow as well   Setup is 7581A's, a 1960's Philips Heerlen 7062 and 1950's NOS GEC U52's.


Beautiful!  As a matter of coincidence, I have never tried 7062, but just ordered a Phillips/Valvo a couple of days ago! It has yet to arrive, but I'm especially looking forward to it now.


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## Dawgfish

duranxv said:


> So after using the Tung Sol 7581A's (thanks @WillieB for the recommendation) for a few days, I'm seriously impressed.  I consider them just about as good as my NOS Tung Sol 6550's which is high praise indeed.  I'm a sucker for the blue glow as well   Setup is 7581A's, a 1960's Philips Heerlen 7062 and 1950's NOS GEC U52's.


Agreed.  The TS 7581As are really one of the first new production power tubes I've heard that sound as good as many NOS options.  Really sweet and impressive sounding tubes.


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## duranxv

Dawgfish said:


> Agreed.  The TS 7581As are really one of the first new production power tubes I've heard that sound as good as many NOS options.  Really sweet and impressive sounding tubes.



Now I'm genuinely curious about other promising new production tubes that can be rolled into the Nautilus.  I love my NOS tubes, but let's face it, they're limited and expensive.  I genuinely feel bad that every hour I spend on the amp, I'm slowly killing my NOS tubes, especially my GEC U52's, lol


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## WillieB

I have a set of Bendix/Tung-Sol 6889, but anyone tried the Bendix 6384? 

The plates look identical to 6889, but the anode connector is not on the glass. I've read in several places that it's a drop-in replacement(with adapter) for EL34/6L6/KT77/6550/KT88 SET amps, but it also mentions it being along the same lines as the old 6L6 and 5881. I know Bigger Ben specs indicate that 5881 is not compatible.


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## Dawgfish (Nov 13, 2022)

WillieB said:


> I have a set of Bendix/Tung-Sol 6889, but anyone tried the Bendix 6384?
> 
> The plates look identical to 6889, but the anode connector is not on the glass. I've read in several places that it's a drop-in replacement(with adapter) for EL34/6L6/KT77/6550/KT88 SET amps, but it also mentions it being along the same lines as the old 6L6 and 5881. I know Bigger Ben specs indicate that 5881 is not compatible.


I bought a pair of NOS Tung Sol 5881/6L6GBs while having a few beverages for my Mogwai.  I realized the next day they were 5881/6L6GBs and not 6L6GCs.  I emailed Justin at Ampsandsound asking if they where ok to run in the Mogwai. He replied that technically by specs they were not compatible but the NOS Tung Sols were very rugged and he thought they would be ok to use.

When they arrived I tried them briefly with the Mogwai. The sound was outstanding but I did not listen to them for long because I did not want to take a chance.  I have had power tubes go bad in the past in two channel stereo amps.  When this happens its usually requires a trip to the repair shop since the power tube going out will usually take out a resistor or two and possibly other components.  Obviously I don't want this to happen again. 

My advise is to contact Justin at Ampsandsound and get his opinion on using those tubes.  If he gives his blessing than use your discretion whether to use or not.


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## Dawgfish

I just wanted to share a tube combination that I'm finding to be excellent with the Mogwai.  I'm currently running NOS GE 6CA7 Fatboys for power tubes with a 1945 RCA 6SL7/VT-229 black plate for the driver tube.  It's a great sounding combo with excellent detail while still retaining great tonality.  Bass, midrange, and highs are all excellent.  The soundstage is huge and imaging is spot on.  If any of y'all get a chance to try this in your Mogwai or Bigger Ben, I highly recommend it.


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## WillieB

Dawgfish said:


> I bought a pair of NOS Tung Sol 5881/6L6GBs while having a few beverages for my Mogwai.  I realized the next day they were 5881/6L6GBs and not 6L6GCs.  I emailed Justin at Ampsandsound asking if they where ok to run in the Mogwai. He replied that technically by specs they were not compatible but the NOS Tung Sols were very rugged and he thought they would be ok to use.
> 
> When they arrived I tried them briefly with the Mogwai. The sound was outstanding but I did not listen to them for long because I did not want to take a chance.  I have had power tubes go bad in the past in two channel stereo amps.  When this happens its usually requires a trip to the repair shop since the power tube going out will usually take out a resistor or two and possibly other components.  Obviously I don't want this to happen again.
> 
> My advise is to contact Justin at Ampsandsound and get his opinion on using those tubes.  If he gives his blessing than use your discretion whether to use or not.


Yeah I have some JAN Phillips 6L6WGB that I ended up with as well. They work fine, but I only ever use them with a lower voltage rectifier (5U4G) and only for headphone use when I'm sitting right by the amp so I can keep an eye on them. I would bet the 6384 would be fine. I know they have the same maximum plate V as the 6889 and have been tested at 500V for extended periods without red-plating. Anyway, that particular tube was designed to be a pulse modulator in a missel guidance system so another typical overbuilt/overspec Red Banks tube. Thanks for the reply!


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## Dawgfish (Nov 13, 2022)

WillieB said:


> Yeah I have some JAN Phillips 6L6WGB that I ended up with as well. They work fine, but I only ever use them with a lower voltage rectifier (5U4G) and only for headphone use when I'm sitting right by the amp so I can keep an eye on them. I would bet the 6384 would be fine. I know they have the same maximum plate V as the 6889 and have been tested at 500V for extended periods without red-plating. Anyway, that particular tube was designed to be a pulse modulator in a missel guidance system so another typical overbuilt/overspec Red Banks tube. Thanks for the reply!


No problem.  Given you tested them at 500V without red-plating they should be fine.  If you try them please let us know how they sound.

Btw I sometimes use a Bendix Red Bank 6385 in my MHDT dacs.  It was designed to be used in missile guidance systems also.  It's an incredible sounding tube and is incredibly well built.


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## dfiled

Brand new to this thread.  I was wondering if someone who has the patience for a technical retard like myself could explain something.  

I recently sold my Feliks Euforia OTL amp as I plan on buying the ZMF Caldera as soon as it comes out.  On Justin's recommendation, I bought the Ovation V2 for this purpose

Now I'm seeing all sorts of reviewers saying that the Caldera sounds better with serious current.  

Could someone please explain to me how an amp with so little power can properly power planars?  I know that Justin has emphasized the size of the transformers on this amp -- how much of a role does this play?

It should be obvious from this question that I have effectively zero understanding about how amplification works, so please treat me like the child that I am.

Thanks in advance!


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## Dawgfish

dfiled said:


> Brand new to this thread.  I was wondering if someone who has the patience for a technical retard like myself could explain something.
> 
> I recently sold my Feliks Euforia OTL amp as I plan on buying the ZMF Caldera as soon as it comes out.  On Justin's recommendation, I bought the Ovation V2 for this purpose
> 
> ...


I'm not an electrical engineer or electrical expert by any means but I do know from experience that a beefy power transformer is very important for supplying high current in an amplifier.  I know its not the same amplifier but I was shocked how well my Mogwai drives the Aeon Flow X.  The Aeon Flows are very hard to drive because of their very low impedance (for headphones) and their low efficiency.  The Mogwai drives them with authority with power to spare.  

From everything I've read about the Caldera they are fairly easy to drive for planars.  Chances are the Ovation will be great with them.


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## dfiled

Thanks for this.  It should be said that the Mogwai has roughly 10X the power of the Ovation.


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## Dawgfish

dfiled said:


> Thanks for this.  It should be said that the Mogwai has roughly 10X the power of the Ovation.


That's true but I would trust Justin's judgement on this.  It's not always about total watts per channel in a lot of cases.  For instance my Little Dot 1+ is only rated for about 0.8 watts per channel compared to my Schiit Lyr 2 which is rated at about 6 watts per channel.  The Little Dot drives the Aeon nearly as well as the Lyr.  Honesty except for at really high volumes I prefer the Little Dot with the Aeons.  Another example in the two channel stereo world is I've heard some of the Nelson Pass First Watt designs only rated at 25-30 wpc channel drive large, hard to drive speakers better than amplifiers rated at 125 wpc or more.

Having a good power supply with a beefy transformer is essential for providing good current and being able to have reserve power to handle dynamic peaks.  It's been my experience that Ampsandsound amplifiers all have very beefy power supplies.  Maybe some of the others on here that have an Ovation or other versions of the Kenzie can chime in on their experiences with planers.


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## ampsandsound

dfiled said:


> Brand new to this thread.  I was wondering if someone who has the patience for a technical retard like myself could explain something.
> 
> I recently sold my Feliks Euforia OTL amp as I plan on buying the ZMF Caldera as soon as it comes out.  On Justin's recommendation, I bought the Ovation V2 for this purpose
> 
> ...


The Caldera was used with an Ovation at CanJam SoCal with really great results. 
Planers in general like power but The Caldera sounded amazing with the Ovation and the Nautilus alike.
If I was able to listen for ext periods side by side I’m sure id find significant differences but both were very satisfiying.


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## duranxv

@ampsandsound  - Any plans on developing a flagship 2A3 amp?


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## ampsandsound

We have one in the books but not convinced it's a wise choice. 
Ultimately we can modify an Agartha/Rockwell to run 2A3s. Largely possible for a red October to have done as well. 
It's not a tube that there's been a ground swell toward when the 300b is an available option. 
Id suggest that a 6B4G is a more interesting tube... its exactly the same as a 6A3 but with a 8pin pin out... It's easy to get 6G4Gs that are 60 years old on the cheap. 
Id also suggest that a 1626 is very similar sonically to a 45. 

What do you like about the 2A3.


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## duranxv

ampsandsound said:


> We have one in the books but not convinced it's a wise choice.
> Ultimately we can modify an Agartha/Rockwell to run 2A3s. Largely possible for a red October to have done as well.
> It's not a tube that there's been a ground swell toward when the 300b is an available option.
> Id suggest that a 6B4G is a more interesting tube... its exactly the same as a 6A3 but with a 8pin pin out... It's easy to get 6G4Gs that are 60 years old on the cheap.
> ...



From what I can tell, plus what others have said 2A3's tend to be more detailed and precise with less midrange bloom than 300B's have.  As for bass, they're probably evenly matched, but I think the 2A3 is less laid back.

It'd be awesome to have a Red October v2 that could run both 300B's and 2A3's if that's somehow possible.  Maybe even 45/1626's


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## WillieB (Dec 12, 2022)

duranxv said:


> From what I can tell, plus what others have said 2A3's tend to be more detailed and precise with less midrange bloom than 300B's have.  As for bass, they're probably evenly matched, but I think the 2A3 is less laid back.
> 
> It'd be awesome to have a Red October v2 that could run both 300B's and 2A3's if that's somehow possible.  Maybe even 45/1626's


There's also the prospect of the Red October/Agartha with Elrog ER300B or ER300B-Mo. The Elrog tubes have a much more modern sound that I would put closer to 2A3, but probably even more analytical to different degrees. Check out this 300B thread:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hea...l-300b-tube-amps.962932/page-67#post-17082170

 This link is the page where they were first mentioned. They have since become a big part of the discussion there. At this point, it's the general consensus that they are the most modern/best sounding 300B's currently available NOS or new/recent production. There is  a LOT of information about pretty much all available 300b's as there are a few guys that have collectively owned or own them all and all have been discussed to some degree.

EDIT: The link is not where they were first mentioned, but kind of early on when they were starting to discuss them. I guess the search feature run-a-mock. Anyway, the entire thread is dedicated to finding the right 300b amp and the correct tubes to get the sound you want so definitely worth the read for anyone considering big DHT's of any kind.


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## DJJEZ

WillieB said:


> There's also the prospect of the Red October/Agartha with Elrog ER300B or ER300B-Mo. The Elrog tubes have a much more modern sound that I would put closer to 2A3, but probably even more analytical to different degrees. Check out this 300B thread:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hea...l-300b-tube-amps.962932/page-67#post-17082170
> 
> This link is the page where they were first mentioned. They have since become a big part of the discussion there. At this point, it's the general consensus that they are the most modern/best sounding 300B's currently available NOS or new/recent production. There is  a LOT of information about pretty much all available 300b's as there are a few guys that have collectively owned or own them all and all have been discussed to some degree.


I alternate with the elrog 300b's in my red October and can confirm they are definitely more analytical then typical 300b tubes and slam harder/ have more impressive imaging etc


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## ampsandsound

The Aratha / Red October can safely run Elrog 300bs currently. 
The Elrog rectifiers art compatible but that has more to do with them not liking large input cap values.


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## DenverW

I brought this up in the 6sn7 thread but it may be more applicable here, since many of the a&s amps can run different 6s*7 variants.

Has anyone had the opportunity to compare tubes across variants?  For example, an rca grey glass 6sn7 vs an rca grey glass 6sl7?  Are both tubes on the 'lush' side?  Gain will be different, of course, but I am curious if there are sonic similarities.  I'm not asking about that tube in particular, although that is one that came to mind, but more curious if there are any sonic "house sounds" across tube types.

The thought in the 6sn7 thread was that the tube circuits would have no similarities, but no one had actually tested this.  Any thoughts?


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## ampsandsound

Wanted to wish everyone a safe and happy year. This community has meant a lot to me and Im grateful for the friendships Ive created through here.


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## Little Bear

Hi gang, hope the holidays are going well.

My Mogwai SE is currently doing primary duty as a speaker amp with a pair of Klipsch La Scalas (105 dB sensitivity).  I think it's a terrific pairing, and so far my favored tubes are EL34, 6SL7 and a GZ34 rectifier.  I also really like the T-S 6L6GC STR's, but the EL34 gives me a little more energy in the treble, which I prefer.

I haven't tried KT88's yet, and I'm very curious how they would be different than the EL34's.  If any of you have any experience with these, I'd appreciate your thoughts.

I'm also kind of interested in the Agartha Rev 2, as I've never had a 300b amp and I'm feeling the urge to spring for one.  Any thoughts on how the Agartha 2 would compare to a Mogwai SE with either EL34 or KT88 tubes powering the Klipsches?


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## Dawgfish

Little Bear said:


> Hi gang, hope the holidays are going well.
> 
> My Mogwai SE is currently doing primary duty as a speaker amp with a pair of Klipsch La Scalas (105 dB sensitivity).  I think it's a terrific pairing, and so far my favored tubes are EL34, 6SL7 and a GZ34 rectifier.  I also really like the T-S 6L6GC STR's, but the EL34 gives me a little more energy in the treble, which I prefer.
> 
> ...


I have a Gen 1 Mogwai and to my ears EL34/6CA7s pair the best with it as far as power tubes.  My favorites of those with the Mogwai so far have been vintage Mullard XF2 EL34s, Tesla EL 34s, and GE Fat boy 6CA7s. 

My favorite input tubes paired with the above mentioned power tubes are either a mid 40s RCA smoked glass 6SL7, mid 40s Tung Sol grey glass 6SU7GTY, or a Sophia Electric 6SL7.

Generally speaking KT88s are more linear sounding then EL34s with more extended highs and lows.  They are usually not as pronounced in the mids as a typical EL34.  Again this is generally speaking as there are some KT88s with very nice mids. The Gold Lion KT88 has pretty nice mids and the Shuguang Black Glass Treasure KT88s have nice mids also. Neither has as pronounced mids as a typical EL34 however.

There are some KT88 equivalents that have the extended lows and highs of a typical KT88 with the lush mids typical of an EL34.  The vintage US made Tung Sol 6550 (Coke bottle shape) and GE 6550 (straight glass sides) are very nice on the Mogwai.  These are both excellent but again I think the Mogwai seems to pair with a good EL34 or equivalent the best.

I have also tried KT90s on the Mogwai though they tend to be even more linear than the KT88s.  They were pretty pleasant sounding though not exactly my cup of tea.

Two other power tubes worth mentioning that I found to be outstanding are the vintage RCA Black Plate 6L6GT and new production Tung Sol 7581a.  The new production TS really surprised me.  Its definitely worth a listen.


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## ampsandsound

Little Bear said:


> Hi gang, hope the holidays are going well.
> 
> My Mogwai SE is currently doing primary duty as a speaker amp with a pair of Klipsch La Scalas (105 dB sensitivity).  I think it's a terrific pairing, and so far my favored tubes are EL34, 6SL7 and a GZ34 rectifier.  I also really like the T-S 6L6GC STR's, but the EL34 gives me a little more energy in the treble, which I prefer.
> 
> ...


The Mogwai SE with KT88s is a fuller sound. The Agatha is a much more classic SET sound… more even FR across the board. If not planing to invest in WE or alike 300bs… the Rockwell is the thinking persons choice. you get all the same benefits of tone and DHT/SET but have access to in expensive NOS tubes. The Rockwell is a closet Fav of mine.


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## Little Bear

ampsandsound said:


> The Agatha is a much more classic SET sound… more even FR across the board.



I'm surprised by this statement.  I thought the classic SET sound was a warm, lush midrange with rolled-off highs and flubby bass.  From all I've read about the 300b, an even FR isn't one of its characteristics.  But maybe I need to read more!

Anyway, thanks for your response and I think I'll stick with the Mogwai for now.  The Rockwell looks interesting though.


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## hmss007

Quick Question to the group, or maybe @ampsandsound can give a quick answer. What is the weight of the Kenzie Ovation v2? (mine is tucked into my console and I can't remove it to weigh).

Thanks


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## me2621a

Once upon a time (early 2018) I bought a Mogwai SE, met Justin, and went on a fun journey, and talked about it a lot with many of you in this thread. Suolo Monos, the Bigger Ben, the Kenzie Ovation, the Nautilus, the Rockwell… and eventually (2021) I left the headphone world, trading in the headphones for speakers and built myself a dedicated two channel listening room powered by the ampsandsound Zions. I thought I was done but look what arrived yesterday: 






The latest revision of the Mogwai SE (the amp that started it all): Outfitted with one of my favorite tube complements for this amp: RCA Black Plate 6L6GCs, RCA Command Series 5751, and a JAN (RCA made) black plate 5U4GB. As with Justin’s other rev 2 products, the Rev 2 of the Mogwai SE is a big step forward from my OG Mogwai SE of yesteryear. Currently wired up to my Soul 6 the sonic treat that this amp produces is quite special and everything you can ask for form a well designed single ended amplifier. 

The new headphones to celebrate my re-entry into the head-fi world will be the Audeze LCD-5 which will come sometime next week. Ill be back after that to post more after I have had some time with the two together, until then I will be enjoying it driving my speakers.


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## ampsandsound

hmss007 said:


> Quick Question to the group, or maybe @ampsandsound can give a quick answer. What is the weight of the Kenzie Ovation v2? (mine is tucked into my console and I can't remove it to weigh).
> 
> Thanks


Im away from home this weekend so Ill have to double check Monday but my gut response is 32-38lbs?


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## ampsandsound

me2621a said:


> Once upon a time (early 2018) I bought a Mogwai SE, met Justin, and went on a fun journey, and talked about it a lot with many of you in this thread. Suolo Monos, the Bigger Ben, the Kenzie Ovation, the Nautilus, the Rockwell… and eventually (2021) I left the headphone world, trading in the headphones for speakers and built myself a dedicated two channel listening room powered by the ampsandsound Zions. I thought I was done but look what arrived yesterday:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thats one good looking amp! I think that's my very favorite tube pairing. You can always get more power, but this thing is about tone and body for sure.


----------

