# RSA   **Predator**   A review in stages ** With some "NEW" images on 1st and page 64 . . .



## jamato8

Why is it I never get used to small amps? What I mean is, I get used to them after I have them for a while but when I see a new one for the first time, that is small, diminutive, little, compact, you know all the adjectives to describe itsy-bitsy, I just look in amazement and wonder, how can this sound like anything at all? Well opening up the box to the Predator, this was my thought. 

 I wonder how many hours of use were on the Predator at the big meet, I know very few and from listening to this one that has 300 hours of use, I could tell that unless broken in the sound would be somewhat flat, ill defined and well, just not engaging. It took a few hours of "on" time to start opening up even though this one has many hours of use. I suspect the cap just needs some charge as it would lose some forming and I clearly heard this. So how does it sound? Well at this time, with maybe 6 hours of listening, I would have to say quite open, nicely detailed, well controlled bass, good rendering of male and female voices and just plain fun. 

 On this note, I will have more to add as I listen and compare and I do have a few things to compare. 

 I am using my Mac computer as the base trying both music from a CD and from copied music to the hard drive.

 1. A 3 position gain control is on the back of the unit, which barely sticks out so accidently changing it is difficult. Adjustment up to a gain of 11. 
 2. A switch on the left front allows you to change from the incoming USB signal to using just the amp section with an input next to the volume control.
 3. The power switch on the right of the volume control is lit red, no led. 
 4. The high gain setting can generate more volume than I could possibly listen to on my full sized headphones, which are driven with ease.
 5. The fit and finish of the case are to the normal very high standards of RSA.
 6. Quiet as a church mouse with IEM's. Deep black quiiiiieeeet, oh so quiet, unless you play music of course.
 7. Charges from the provided wall wart because if it used the USB to charge and you have your computer running off of a battery then you are going to discharge your computer that much faster. 
 8. When no USB is used the dac is out of the circuit and no current goes to this section. The Predator then acts as a small high quality portable amp.
 9. Run time using internal battery for the amp section is approximately 56 hours depending upon the volume used and the type of monitors being used. 
 10. The gain switch influences sound. the lowest gain is the warmest, medium gain is the most neutral and the high gain of 11 is brighter. With more time using each gain switch I now find this less true than I did at first and to me they are all sounding nearly the same. 
 11. Running off of the battery while using the USB dac is the most musical as you are using battery power vs the wall wart that is used for the charger.

 12 18
 This has to be one of the sweetest amps I have heard. It has a tube type quality to it without losing any control of the music. There is a euphonic quality in the positive sense, which I find very appealing. I can also see where this would pair very well with IEM's. I read that the sound of the Predator is an "in your face" presentation and while it isn't the most distant I have heard, my Monica from the iRiver presents a more distant sound, it isn't in-your-face by any means. The bass has a nice growl to it, as in being well defined. 

 I haven't done any real comparison yet as I want to get a grasp of the sound, the signature, of the Predator.
 __________________

 12 18
 I am finding out that the sound quality is improving with the passage of time. I prefer to leave devices like this on all the time and to my ear, this is no exception. 

 Cymbals are getting that nice sheen and decay rather than a dead or splashy sound.

 No, no, this is not In Your Face. . . . leave it on! I am getting some excellent depth and separation.
 __________________

 12 19
 I need more time to compare but the Predator is shaping up to be a very interesting sounding amp. By this I mean that the quality of sound is complex yet musical. There are nuances to the sound that make it a pleasure to listen to. It is *highly* detailed but *not* etched. I found out that the Florida meet Predator was a different unit and only had 1 day of use. 

 No one has heard what the Predator really sounds like, though I am finding out and will keep adding to this. This is not a two dimensional amp/dac.

 12 19
 I found out the Predator has a 15,000uf cap so I can see where a long burn-in is needed. I would speculate, due to the small current flow and large cap that a burn-in of 500 hours or more is needed to realize the full potential of this amp/dac. I know that in the 2 days I have had it on, there have been changes, which is one reason it isn't really fair at this time to compare it to other burnt in amps but I do enjoy hearing the changes and reporting what I hear. 

 Anyone who buys one of these has to bear in mind that you will not hear what it is capable of for a few hundred hours. As dielectric changes due to the charge going through the wire, resistors change, and of course caps form due to the chemical and metallic properties they possess. There are white papers written on all these properties but I don't feel like citing them right now.

 12 19
 More on sound:
 Well I have been describing that to a point. Right now it is a little bright (350 hours) but the bass impact is excellent, male and female voices (K.D. Lang, Shadow Land) are very good and do not get lost in the mix. This little thing throws a wide and fairly deep sound stage but again, it needs time to fully form/settle/break-in. What still amazes me is how far portable amps and now usb/dac/amps have come in just a couple of short years.

 12 20
 I can say that with well recorded music I don't think there will be many people disappointed with the Predator. Seldom will everyone agree on any one point and this would be no exception but I do think the Predator gives a good dose of high quality sound. I find the high frequencies clean and without grain, the mids are not forward or recessed but enough to bring out the voice so it has dimension and the bass has impact with rhythm and pace but it does not mingle with the lower mids as some amps can do.

 12 20 370 hours on unit.
 At this point I find that the Predator is handling volume quite well. No sign of clipping with bass heavy music and as the volume is increased the sound field closes in slightly but no more than what I would normally expect. Right now I like the medium gain as it sounds the most neutral to my ear (the low gain is a little warmer and the high gain a little brighter). 

 I am using the Ultrasone 750's most of the time but other headphones that I use can be seen in my signature.

 12 20 1154PM
 Listening to Chris Isaaks "Forever Blue" the cut Forever Blue has never sound more holographic, deep and fluid. What a treat. Not all the songs sound like this but most of the album is enjoyable but Forever Blue right now is the most lifelike from headphones I have ever heard, something I have read about but never experienced. Don't know if it will last but it is fun for now.
 Eric Clapton's "Unplugged" is also a CD I use as well as many others.

 12 21
 I have been comparing just the amp section of the Predator to the P2, they are very close with a little more recessed mid and slightly more detail in the upper mid than the P2 and the Reference has just a bit more Open sound than either of the two. Take this in the context that the Predator is still breaking in with around 400 hours on it. On the rest of the frequency range I want to wait, these are just a couple of things that pop out. The sound of a drum stick hitting the drum has a more defined sound on the Predator than the P2 at this point, more of a leading edge and a thwack, than a more rounded thud from the P2. I do have some different opamps coming for the P2, which makes it more difficult to pin down. They all sound pretty darn good. I am using the feed from my Monica II dac for all three amps.

 12 22
 At 425 hours the Predator seems to be evening out. It is very open, smooth and on well recorded music like Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon", throws tremendous depth and width with fine imaging and solid well controlled bass. It does not have character that changes the music but changes with the music giving you musical entertainment when the recording is decent or better and not so enjoyable when not. As I stated early on there is a very slightly warm presentation, which is a positive for IEM's and with anything else I have listening with.

 12 25 07
 One thing I haven't mentioned is the fit and finish of the Predator. As usual it is up to the extremely high standards of Ray. Much like a fine watch in fit and finish. I thought the volume knob was plastic because it was so perfectly made but after I thought about it I couldn't imagine Ray using plastic and after examining it I realized it is metal. Everything fits perfectly together on the case with little room for any error in tolerance.

 12 26 07
 I wanted to wait for more time to pass as the Predator transitions through different stages. 

 At approximately 475 hours the bass became overwhelming. I thought there was something wrong with the amp or my ears so I did a comparison and it was the Predator. I haven't had a component change to such a great degree. The bass was as if I had a max bass switch and doubled that. I put down the headphones after confirming with my other amps and sources that it wasn't my ears or anything else and let the Predator burn in over night as this started in the evening. The next day the overpowering bass was gone but the sound was somewhat bright. 

 500 hours. I am at around 510 hours now and the sound has become more even in the frequency range. The bass is well defined and on well recorded music the depth and width are very good. I think that with the large capacitor that the Predator uses, as with a number of other portable amps that Ray produces, the time required for the final sound to materialize should be understood. I have found this can not be rushed and is just part of the process.

 1 6 2008
 I wanted to mention that the HD650's and the Predator go very well together. Listening to piano really brings it home. The notes seem to hold in the air with a nice rounded melodic quality and weight that is what I hear in live presentation.

 750 hours. The Predator has developed into a very solid performer. The bass is extremely well integrated. The sound field is very transparent and the separation of voices and instruments within space is convincing in both the front to back and side to side perspective. There is a body to sound from where it emanates that occupies space. I am finding that the amp and amp/dac section both involve me in the sound and provide a natural and enjoyable layered sound. 

 Listening to The Eagles, "Hell Freezes Over", not a great recording but some great music, the cut "in the city", the bass feels like I have speakers in the room. Yep, booaum with quality not boom, boom, but tonal bass. (HD650's)

 1 28 08 1200 hours and counting:
 I have over 1200 hours on the Predator now. It ages and does it well. There is a "mature" sound that comes across as in an amp design that has come of age. 

 The new Geagles album (geezer sorry) Eagles as with many albums comes across with a fluid snap to the music. It is hard to put into words but there is an illusive quality to the sound of the Predator. The amp develops as time passes. I have plenty of other amps to reference to so I know of what I speak. The Predator grabs a note but then releases it like you would a guitar string. Twang, clean, sounds like a note and sounds like . . . something very special.

*Below is my favorite carrying case that has a velcro strap for a belt and holds an iRiver H120 or 140 and the Predator. The IC is my own custom hyper pure silver design.*












*Post by Orcin on 7/9/08*

 Quote:
 Originally Posted by webbie64 
 It's got that underlying punch and drive, particularly in the bass, that first impressed me with the Hornet M. And the extra impressiveness of the Predator, to me at least, is in the even more transparent and tonally accurate rendition of the overall sound (deeper soundstage as well, due in part to improved micro detail over the Hornet M).

 Response by Orcin:

 Yes, I think it's the detail and distinct separation of the instruments that is impressing me the most over the Hornet. I am not very good at describing these things in audio terms, but in my mind what I feel is that the sound went from having a rough edge at 200 hours to a very polished one at 500 hours - like I was comparing a sawed edge of a piece of lumber to the polished edge of a granite countertop. Every note is clear and precise, and the vocals are forward and clean. And the bass... oh boy!! 

 I am not yet seeing the soundstage as a big difference over the Hornet, although it is quite good, so maybe that is yet to come as I get closer to the 1000 hours. I may also be influenced by my choice of music recently, so I will try to find something else to examine this element more closely.

 I must confess to listening a lot to NiN's Downward Spiral lately, which may not be the best choice for evaluating soundstage. But it sure is demanding when it comes to separation and clarity. A bad system can make it sound irritating with the instruments collapsing together in a heap of noise, while a good system can leave your mouth hanging open from a blast of what the uninitiated might call "distortion" but I choose to call "creative use of synthetic tone". And the bass... oh boy!!! The snap of the bass drum pedal, the elongated bass guitar note, the rumble of a deep organ... all awesome.

 The punch and drive is also important to me, so I don't think I would enjoy this amp as much if it were more detailed but more laid back (as many have described hearing from the Pico). Again, I like NiN and Rush and Black Sabbath, but no classical. I like Mahavishnu Orchestra better than Miles Davis, even though I have both. Did I mention I have no classical music at all? So take my opinion on this point with a grain of salt if your tastes are different. But not the rest of my comments, I see those being valid with any music.

 This amp has excellent synergy with my iPod line out (via ALO Cryo Dock) and my two primary phones (HD600 & UM2). I find both of these phones to be a bit dark and the iPod needs some punch and bass boosting. The amp pushes through the veil of the phones and wakes up the neutrality of the iPod, while the phones pick up the accurate bass and push it to the correct balance for my taste.

 This time last year, my primary portable rig was iPod 5G, Hornet, and UE sf5pros. I upgraded each piece in the past few months and I am really happy with the result. In summary...

 I love my stuff!!! I guess I'm just a happy guy today. Thank you for being here to share this joy with me


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## Bozz_Keren

please do compare with your P2, i know its not apple to apple


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## jamato8

This has to be one of the sweetest amps I have heard. It has a tube type quality to it without losing any control of the music. There is a euphonic quality in the positive sense, which I find very appealing. I can also see where this would pair very well with IEM's. I read that the sound of the Predator is an "in your face" presentation and while it isn't the most distant I have heard, my Monica from the iRiver presents a more distant sound, it isn't in-your-face by any means. The bass has a nice growl to it, as in being well defined. 

 I haven't done any real comparison yet as I want to get a grasp of the sound, the signature, of the Predator.


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## bhd812

wait you mean you already have one?


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## jamato8

It was loaned to me.


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## shaizada

Oh cmon Billy! Why do you have to have the first of all of Rays products! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Jamato8, tell him the truth. You KNOW you have the first one already #001 baby!

 ~G


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## bhd812

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shaizada* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh cmon Billy! Why do you have to have the first of all of Rays products! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Jamato8, tell him the truth. You KNOW you have the first one already #001 baby!

 ~G_

 

HaHA..thats good. i tried but he said it was called for. i said something like..
 "yeah i didn't want it anyway, i was just testing you..ha" you know I had to save face.


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## jamato8

I am finding out that the sound quality is improving with the passage of time. I prefer to leave devices like this on all the time and to my ear, this is no exception. 

 Cymbals are getting that nice sheen and decay rather than a dead or splashy sound.

 No, no, this is not In Your Face. . . . leave it on! I am getting some excellent depth and separation.


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## basman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am finding out that the sound quality is improving with the passage of time. I prefer to leave devices like this on all the time and to my ear, this is no exception. 

 Cymbals are getting that nice sheen and decay rather than a dead or splashy sound._

 

Keep it coming Jamato. this is more sweeter with pics to drool on!

 Thanks


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## aluren

how does it compare to the xin reference?


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## vvs_75

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aluren* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_how does it compare to the xin reference?_

 

x 2


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## webbie64

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvs_75* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_x 2 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

x3...Basically because you currently put the Xin at the top of your preferred portables.

 But I would also appreciate a comparo to your current top rated RSA amp, the SR-71.


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## jamato8

I need more time to compare but the Predator is shaping up to be a very interesting sounding amp. By this I mean that the quality of sound is complex yet musical. There are nuances to the sound that make it a pleasure to listen to. It is *highly* detailed but *not* etched. I found out that the Florida meet Predator was a different unit and only had 1 day of use. 

 No one has heard what the Predator really sounds like, though I am finding out and will keep adding to this. This is not a two dimensional amp/dac.


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## upstateguy




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## kamal007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *upstateguy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_



_

 

x2


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## tnmike1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kamal007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_x2_

 

pics are posted all over the place in Ray's starting thread at the top of the forum's opening page.


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## grubyhalo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kamal007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_x2_

 

X3


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## jamato8

You guys and your picture lust. Who has a camera?

 I found out the Predator has a 15,000uf cap so I can see where a long burn-in is needed. I would speculate, due to the small current flow and large cap that a burn-in of 500 hours or more is needed to realize the full potential of this amp/dac. I know that in the 2 days I have had it on, there have been changes, which is one reason it isn't really fair at this time to compare it to other burnt in amps but I do enjoy hearing the changes and reporting what I hear. 

 Anyone who buys one of these has to bear in mind that you will not hear what it is capable of for a few hundred hours. As dielectric changes due to the charge going through the wire, resistors change, and of course caps form due to the chemical and metallic properties they possess. There are white papers written on all these properties but I don't feel like citing them right now.


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## kamal007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tnmike1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_pics are posted all over the place in Ray's starting thread at the top of the forum's opening page._

 

yeah but we want to see them from different angle, different camera etc =)


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## webbie64

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You guys and your picture lust. Who has a camera?

 I found out the Predator has a 15,000uf cap so I can see where a long burn-in is needed. I would speculate, due to the small current flow and large cap that a burn-in of 500 hours or more is needed to realize the full potential of this amp/dac. I know that in the 2 days I have had it on, there have been changes, which is one reason it isn't really fair at this time to compare it to other burnt in amps but I do enjoy hearing the changes and reporting what I hear. 

 Anyone who buys one of these has to bear in mind that you will not hear what it is capable of for a few hundred hours. As dielectric changes due to the charge going through the wire, resistors change, and of course caps form due to the chemical and metallic properties they possess. There are white papers written on all these properties but I don't feel like citing them right now._

 


 Thanks for the clarification re: where it is in relation to its burn in.

 I look forward to revisiting your impressions when you can report on its true potential.


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## immtbiker

Did you get the Predator with a chassis or get it naked?


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## jamato8

This has a chassis. Ray mentioned to me that the one in Florida was a new board with no real hours on it. He would have to clarify further. All that I know is that the one I have had 300 hours on it when I received it and that it has continued to change in sound character. I have read that the Predator heard at the meet lacked some detail. To be honest I wouldn't want much more, if any more, detail than what I am getting as it would start to get in the way of the music as being unnatural. With what we all listen to on headphones, in real life, I have never heard except on a rare occasion in regards to detail. I think that the whole experience be it speakers or headphones is hyper compared to real life in order to make up for the fact that it isn't live and isn't the actual event therefore we want more in order to overcome this. I have sat 10 feet from live orchestra performances and listened to solos from singers to violins and have never heard the rosin on the bow, or the sucking in of air that I have heard on recordings.


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## bhd812

he always tweaks every amp before it makes it out to the first customer. the day i picked up the Raptor he was still tweaking. he probably listens to people opinions at the meets and goes from there...my guess.


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## immtbiker

My mistake. The one in Florida had very little hours and the one in NY had multi-hundred hours. They were 2 different units. Sorry for being a butt-insky.


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## digismurf

Stop teasing us how does it sound!


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## jamato8

Well I have been describing that to a point. Right now it is a little bright (350 hours) but the bass impact is excellent, male and female voices (K.D. Lang, Shadow Land) are very good and do not get lost in the mix. This little thing throws a wide and fairly deep sound stage but again, it needs time to fully form/settle/break-in. What still amazes me is how far portable amps and now usb/dac/amps have come in just a couple of short years.


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## digismurf

Very cool, thank you! 

 Lots of really nice pics at your pbase link too btw! Keep shooting!


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## OptionTrader

I'm very excited. I can't wait to pick mine up!


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## jude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I have been describing that to a point. Right now it is a little bright (350 hours) but the bass impact is excellent, male and female voices (K.D. Lang, Shadow Land) are very good and do not get lost in the mix. This little thing throws a wide and fairly deep sound stage but again, it needs time to fully form/settle/break-in. What still amazes me is how far portable amps and now usb/dac/amps have come in just a couple of short years._

 

I've still got the now well-used naked Predator prototype that I posted about in my blog some time ago, and a black-on-black production Predator on order. After all this time with the naked prototype, it's safe to say my sonic impressions are very similar to yours, John.

 I can't wait for my production Predator to arrive, so that I can stop worrying about setting this naked prototype on anything conductive.


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## basman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There are white papers written on all these properties but I don't feel like citing them right now._

 

Hi Jamato,

 Can you PM to me the link of white papers regarding burning in period, coz somebody from the other forum is looking for this fact sheet. and I'm interested too.

 Thanks a lot.


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## tnmike1

UH OH--me smells another "brn-in debate" a-comin'. Is it or ain't it???


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## jamato8

None from me. I have said all that I need to say.


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## tnmike1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_None from me. I have said all that I need to say._

 


 Me either. Altho there are some on here.....


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## williamchc

I have ordered a Predator too,
 What is the sound signature of Predator comparing with Tomahawk and Hornet?


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## jamato8

Ray has said it lies between the SR71 and TH or Hornet, I forget which one but my feelings are that it is its own sound signature and to me, very different from the SR71 in being a little more dynamic. There is a cleaness between notes and frankly it is a different set of electronics that has its own sound.


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## Jalo

I've just ordered a black predator also. I, too, was wondering how it compares to SR-71. Ray only says that it is similar and that doesn't tell me anything. For those of you who have the chance to compare both the sr-71 and predator, please speak your mind. Thank you.


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## n_maher

So at what "stage" of the review are you at right now?


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## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *n_maher* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So at what "stage" of the review are you at right now?_

 

I am at around 360 hours with 60 hours of my own time on the Pred. It went through a bright period for about 12 to 15 hours and then that cleared up and it got a little congested and then that pretty much has cleared up. There are so many things at play on a macro, micro and nano that transforms the sound as everything forms due to electromagnetic influence and electron flow on IC's, other metallic devices and organic materials. 

 While I feel that Ray does have a sound that he hears and strives for and I appreciate that, in the end there are so many influences that only time will be the judge of where the sound settles given the parameters of each system and the interaction of the whole, which each of our own set of ears figures pretty heavily into to. 

 I can say that with well recorded music I don't think there will be many people disappointed. Seldom will everyone agree on any one point and this would be no exception but I do think the Predator gives a good dose of high quality sound. I find the high frequencies clean and without grain, the mids are not forward or recessed but enough to bring out the voice so it has dimension and the bass has impact with rhythm and pace but it does not mingle with the lower mids as some amps can do.


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## n_maher

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am at around 360 hours with 60 hours of my own time on the Pred._

 

Wait, I'm confused, on the 18th you'd only spent 6 hours listening...

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_. So how does it sound? Well at this time, with maybe 6 hours of listening <snip>_

 

So have you really spent the last 48hrs listening constantly? Or is it that you've burned it in another 60?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There are so many things at play on a macro, micro and nano that transforms the sound as everything forms due to electromagnetic influence and electron flow on IC's, other metallic devices and organic materials._

 






 I believe in a bit of burn in but "electromagnetic influence and electron flow"? Exactly how complicated a device do you think you're working with? It's a couple of chips, some resistors, one giant cap and that's about it. 

 Pardon my intrusion, you may now go about your regularly scheduled gushing.


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## jamato8

When it comes to dac and many IC's there are many influences going on. Do some investigation. 

 I received the Predator with 300 hours, as stated, and have a little over 60 hours of my own use now. Of course I don't listen 24 hours a day, but I think most people could understand that with a little bit of thought. 

 Oh, and spread out what is inside of a dac and some of the other devices on a breadboard with all of the required resistors, transistors and associated parts and build a dac if you want to see how complicated a circuit we are dealing with.


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## n_maher

jamato,

 I don't disagree with anything you've said regarding your impressions of the sound of the Predator. What am I trying to convey and obviously doing a poor job of it (thanks recstar for your far more eloquent help) is that reviewers should understand the weight that their opinion carries. I can very nearly guarantee that when folks start receiving their Predators that we will now hear a litany of stated burn-in times regarding sound quality based on your review. And for anyone that perhaps doesn't agree with your impressions will be told that they need the requisite 300/500/whatever period of burn-in before their opinion becomes valid.

 I've argued this point in other threads recently so I'll stop here.


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## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *n_maher* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_jamato,

 I don't disagree with anything you've said regarding your impressions of the sound of the Predator. What am I trying to convey and obviously doing a poor job of it (thanks recstar for your far more eloquent help) is that reviewers should understand the weight that their opinion carries. I can very nearly guarantee that when folks start receiving their Predators that we will now hear a litany of stated burn-in times regarding sound quality based on your review. And for anyone that perhaps doesn't agree with your impressions will be told that they need the requisite 300/500/whatever period of burn-in before their opinion becomes valid.

 I've argued this point in other threads recently so I'll stop here._

 

You have a valid point. What I am doing here is expressing what I hear and my way of interpreting and reporting it. It should be taken as that and frankly it has been my style for much of the time I have given my impressions on a number of pieces of equipment here as well as when I build and listen to my own equipment. I hope that what I write is observed as my opinion as one human being and taken as that and nothing more.


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## boomana

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ray has said it lies between the SR71 and TH or Hornet, I forget which one but my feelings are that it is its own sound signature and to me, very different from the SR71 in being a little more dynamic. There is a cleaness between notes and frankly it is a different set of electronics that has its own sound._

 

What do you mean when you say "very different from the SR71 in being a little more dynamic"?

 I have an SR-71, had a Hornet, and heard the Predator (granted, for a limited time). We might be using different terminology since I'm not sure what you mean by "more dynamic" since that wasn't my experience, though that's not a criticism of the Predator, which I thought sounded good, just not more dynamic.


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## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomana* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What do you mean when you say "very different from the SR71 in being a little more dynamic"?

 I have an SR-71, had a Hornet, and heard the Predator (granted, for a limited time). We might be using different terminology since I'm not sure what you mean by "more dynamic" since that wasn't my experience, though that's not a criticism of the Predator, which I thought sounded good, just not more dynamic._

 

That is my interpretation of what I am hearing.


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## n_maher

I look forward to your long term impressions.


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## boomana

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That is my interpretation of what I am hearing._

 

i understand that, but I genuinely want to know what you mean by "more dynamic than the SR-71" so I can understand your interpretation. There are a lot of phrases people say that I don't understand in terms of either my experience or weighted against what I've read before, so I ask for clarification. For example, lately I've seen the description "musical" in so many different contexts in reviews or impressions posts, it has lost all meaning to me other than giving me the feeling that someone likes something. I'm not trying to be contentious, I really would like to know.


----------



## vvs_75

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *n_maher* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I look forward to your long term impressions._

 

We all do! Just don’t forget to tell us at what point you start likening it better than the Xin reference.


----------



## jamato8

To me musical is what I hear in live music be it Rock, Heavy metal, acoustical orchestral, acoustical guitar and so on. Taken within the context of what I hear in notes, macro and micro changes within notes and the influence of that upon what "I" interpret as natural within a genera of music. 

 Dynamics as that fluctuation of sound with a clean leading edge that has impact, has attack that does not bleed onto other notes or areas where it should not.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vvs_75* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_We all do! Just don’t forget to tell us at what point you start likening it better than the Xin reference. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I don't know that I will like it better or worse. It may be just another way to subtly or not so subtly to interpret the digital and audio signal.


----------



## thrice

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dynamics as that fluctuation of sound with a clean leading edge that has impact, has attack that does not bleed onto other notes or areas where it should not._

 

To me that sounds like separate and impact and not necessarily dynamics. Stereophile defines dynamics and dynamic range as:

Stereophile: Sounds Like? An Audio Glossary

_dynamic_ Giving an impression of wide dynamic range; punchy. This is related to system speed as well as to volume contrast.


_dynamic range_ 1) Pertaining to a signal: the ratio between the loudest and the quietest passages. 2) Pertaining to a component: the ratio between its no-signal noise and the loudest peak it will pass without distortion. 


 Now, I'm not saying that Stereophile is the end-all be-all for defining how we use words to describe music, but on the other hand there is something to be said for a standard language that is used to refer to things consistently so we can all infer the same thing from a subjective statement.

 As a classically trained musician I was taught that dynamics deal with the variety in volume indicated by markings such as p(iano), f(orte), mf(mezzo forte=medium loud)... etc.

 Naxos defines it as the level of sound (loud or soft) via their dictionary:
Musical Terms | Music Glossary: Terminology | Dictionary - D-F

 I can check the Harvard Dictionary of musical terms when I get home as it tends to be more thorough.

 Perhaps that is what boomana is getting at as far as asking for qualifications. It can be difficult to interpret a review or impressions when you have to try to determine what the writer means by "dynamic, musical, bright,... etc.

 just my 2 bits.


----------



## jamato8

Great, thank you. Sounds good to me. I used to play the sax so I can understand the whole dynamic scenario. I am glad there are dictionaries we can all refer to. 


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thrice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To me that sounds like separate and impact and not necessarily dynamics. Stereophile defines dynamics and dynamic range as:

Stereophile: Sounds Like? An Audio Glossary

dynamic Giving an impression of wide dynamic range; punchy. This is related to system speed as well as to volume contrast.


dynamic range 1) Pertaining to a signal: the ratio between the loudest and the quietest passages. 2) Pertaining to a component: the ratio between its no-signal noise and the loudest peak it will pass without distortion. 


 Now, I'm not saying that Stereophile is the end-all be-all for defining how we use words to describe music, but on the other hand there is something to be said for a standard language that is used to refer to things consistently so we can all infer the same thing from a subjective statement.

 As a classically trained musician I was taught that dynamics deal with the variety in volume indicated by markings such as p(iano), f(orte), mf(mezzo forte=medium loud)... etc.

 Naxos defines it as the level of sound (loud or soft) via their dictionary:
Musical Terms | Music Glossary: Terminology | Dictionary - D-F

 I can check the Harvard Dictionary of musical terms when I get home as it tends to be more thorough.

 Perhaps that is what boomana is getting at as far as asking for qualifications. It can be difficult to interpret a review or impressions when you have to try to determine what the writer means by "dynamic, musical, bright,... etc.

 just my 2 bits. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## grawk

When people use words in a way that's different from what they actually mean, no one understands what they mean. So it helps to know that when jamato8 says "dynamics" he really means something completely different. It's always good to know what words mean, and how to use them.


----------



## Asr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Doesn't all this pedagogical attitude fight against the creative use of language a little? I think it harms immediacy of expression. Let's not be too formal... We aren't a recognized audio magazine yet, after all.

 P.S. Words like "musical" could never be defined. Musical is what does good to your favorite music and to your individual pair of ears; therefore, it'll be as subjective to others as it is objective to you. No delirating standardizations please!_

 

Except a word like "dynamic" has a very specific definition to musicians. Anyone can throw around the use of the word "dynamic," and indeed most people probably aren't familiar with its actual definition which can lead to uninformed people mis-using it. Not saying that jamato's mis-used it, just saying that those who lack musical training or knowledge aren't going to use the word properly and hence a reviewer who lacks musical training/knowledge is going to pass off bad information. I don't think I'm being too technical on this either, as this _is_ music we're all listening to and regardless of genre, all music is built on certain principles, dynamics being one of them. The definition that thrice provided is right on the mark.

 And for the record, I'm a trained violinist (20 years now) and formerly played piano (5 years).


----------



## tomjtx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grawk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When people use words in a way that's different from what they actually mean, no one understands what they mean. So it helps to know that when jamato8 says "dynamics" he really means something completely different. It's always good to know what words mean, and how to use them._

 


 X10 !!!!!

 If one doesn't use language correctly, if one assigns incorrect meaning to words, communication is all but impossible and discussion is meaningless.

 Words have a precise meaning and understanding their proper meaning fosters communication and the creative exchange of ideas.

 It is the imprecise understanding of language that hampers creativity and creative thought.


----------



## thrice

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Agreed regarding "dynamic", it is indeed something transversal to music genres and personal tastes. Where it becomes a personal thing again, is when comparisons come into play, i.e. when different references are concerned. One will be for the forceful dynamics (supposedly the classical music lover), the other for the subtle and delicate (like the acoustic music lover), therefore opinions will be diverse..._

 

See know you've provided a great example showing how improper use and lack of clarity leads to confusion and miscommunication. Let's take you last statement:

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where it becomes a personal thing again, is when comparisons come into play, i.e. when different references are concerned. One will be for the forceful dynamics (supposedly the classical music lover), the other for the subtle and delicate (like the acoustic music lover), therefore opinions will be diverse..._

 

You clearly do not understand what dynamics refers to, despite having read the aforementioned definition. Dynamics refers to the contrast and use of louder and softer volumes in music. Forceful dynamics are not unique to any one type or genre of music. You can have subtle and delicate dynamics in classical, jazz, folk, rock...etc. just as you can have forceful dynamics as well.

 Where dynamics comes into play regarding audio gear is that particular piece of gear's ability to convey those dynamics accurately. If a piece of gear glosses over the dynamics and doe snot allow the finer nuances of the dynamic changes to come through then that piece might be described as having poor dynamic performance. The degree of the quality of dynamic performance in a piece of gear is what is up to the consumer to decide...how important is dynamics to you?


----------



## jamato8

At this point I find that the Predator is handling volume quite well. No sign of clipping with bass heavy music and as the volume is increased the sound field closes in slightly but no more than what I would normally expect. Right now I like the medium gain as it sounds the most neutral to my ear (the low gain is a little warmer and the high gain a little brighter). 

 I am using the Ultrasone 750's most of the time but other headphones that I use can be seen in my signature.


----------



## vcoheda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thrice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To me that sounds like separate and impact ..._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Doesn't all this pedagogical attitude ..._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grawk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When people use words in a way that's different ..._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Asr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Except a word like "dynamic" ..._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tomjtx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_X10 !!!!! If one doesn't use language correctly, ..._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Agreed regarding "dynamic" ..._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thrice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_See know you've provided a great example showing how improper use ..._

 

maybe you guys could stop derailing this thread and stay on topic.


----------



## immtbiker

Zounds 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 Scrypt has molted and spread out over the universe


----------



## jamato8

This isn't getting to be much fun. I just enjoy sharing what I am hearing but having that lost in a debate that makes it difficult to read about the Predator is like a train that just went over a cliff. Maybe I will start this over.


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...a debate that makes it difficult to read about the Predator is like a train that just went over a cliff. Maybe I will start this over._

 

I've never seen a train go off a cliff. Cars maybe, but never a train. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 However, trains *do *get _derailed_ (I kid).

 "I was astonished as to how viscerally real, see-through, dimensional and ultra delicate the (insert name of any component) had become."


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've never seen a train go off a cliff. Cars maybe, but never a train. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 However, trains *do *get derailed (I kid)._

 

Train to Machu Picchu 

 I took the train to Machu Picchu a few years ago and as it swayed to and fro, to and fro over cliffs that overlooked the river hundreds of feet below, I wondered, will this train go cascading into the abyss below? To and fro and I knew that the wood ties were old and decaying and more than any train I have ever ridden on, this one swayed to and fro, to and fro and cascading to the abyss below I prayed I would not go.


----------



## immtbiker

Excellent review of that train ride. I felt as if I was actually there, swaying and looking down the cliff. 
 It had both impact and mortal decay.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 Excellent review of that train ride. I felt as if I was actually there, swaying and looking down the cliff. 
 It had both impact and mortal decay._

 

How do you mean "impact"? do you mean it changed the way you now view trains, that it made you think more about the fragile nature of being human, please explain. L O L


----------



## immtbiker

_im·pact 
 Pronunciation: \im-ˈpakt\ 
 Function: verb 
 Etymology: Latin impactus, past participle of impingere to push against — more at impinge 
 Date: 1601 
 transitive verb
 1 a: to fix firmly by or as if by packing or wedging b: to press together
 2 a: to have a direct effect or impact on : impinge on b: to strike forcefully; also : to cause to strike forcefully
 intransitive verb
 1: to have an impact —often used with on
 2: to impinge or make contact especially forcefully_


 Back to our regularly scheduled programming.


----------



## jamato8

deleted image


----------



## 3x331m

I don't like visceral impact when I ride trains.... Decay is even worst when you talk about track condition. I really don't like great dynamic when I go on airliners....


----------



## OptionTrader

I am very interested in a Predator which is why I am reading this thread.

 Unfortunately, there is a lot of talking but nothing is being said.


----------



## basman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OptionTrader* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am very interested in a Predator which is why I am reading this thread.

 Unfortunately, there is a lot of talking but nothing is being said._

 

The sad thing is the veterans leads us to wrong direction like me as newbie
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Lets focus on our goal and respect each other opinion.

 Peace to all!


----------



## The Monkey

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *basman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The sad thing is the veterans leads us to wrong direction like me as newbie
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Which veterans and how so?

 EDIT: and by which veterans, I do not mean to single anyone out; just which particular line of thinking do you feel is leading you in the wrong direction?


----------



## Illidan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OptionTrader* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am very interested in a Predator which is why I am reading this thread.

 Unfortunately, there is a lot of talking but nothing is being said._

 

X2

 So let's stay on the topic...How does it compare to the Hornet especially with IEMs in terms of SQ and hiss issues?


----------



## frozenice

Thanks for taking the time to write the review jamato8. People are very passionate for or against Ray's products.


----------



## jamato8

So I am finding out. I just want to give the best information I can so people who want to read this don't have to read through information either from me or anyone else that doesn't go to the heart of what I am hearing. If someone doesn't understand something I write then email me and I will try and clarify, if I can and I will clarify the post I have made.


----------



## 3x331m

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I am finding out. I just want to give the best information I can so people who want to read this don't have to read through information either from me or anyone else that doesn't go to the heart of what I am hearing. If someone doesn't understand something I write then email me and I will try and clarify, if I can and I will clarify the post I have made._

 

Please continue your good works. Most of us know how to sort out noises. Trolls are everywhere, and you don't want them to contact you directly.

 I do take opportunities to have fun in some situation, but there is no way or any mean of disrespect.


----------



## boomana

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *frozenice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_People are very passionate for or against Ray's products._

 

What the heck does that have to do with anyone's posts in this thread? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 jamato8, I, too, look forward to more impressions since you have a different Predator than the one I heard. Ray told me he brought a different board to the NYC meet than was in Florida, and I've been curious ever since, which is why I asked for a clarification of your terms. I was trying to understand, and I thank you for your answer. It helped.

 In fairness, though, if someone has a question looking for clarity in a review, why does that need to be done in private? It's a public review in a public forum. My question seems to have tipped off a mini-debate about definitions, which only goes to show that others misunderstood as well. You may have gotten the brunt of a growing frustration many of us have with impressions and reviews, and I respect how you have handled it, but if someone has taken on the responsibility of posting about a product no one else has, especially one as interesting as the Predator, it should be okay to question the things said in the review. Maybe threads will be taken off the main topic for a minute if people have a clash in ideas (that's where mods can step in if needed), but if it ultimately benefits how others interpret your findings, I think it's for the good of the community, and even, in this specific case, the Predator.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomana* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What the heck does that have to do with anyone's posts in this thread? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 jamato8, I, too, look forward to more impressions since you have a different Predator than the one I heard. Ray told me he brought a different board to the NYC meet than was in Florida, and I've been curious ever since, which is why I asked for a clarification of your terms. I was trying to understand, and I thank you for your answer. It helped.

 In fairness, though, if someone has a question looking for clarity in a review, why does that need to be done in private? It's a public review in a public forum. My question seems to have tipped off a mini-debate about definitions, which only goes to show that others misunderstood as well. You may have gotten the brunt of a growing frustration many of us have with impressions and reviews, and I respect how you have handled it, but if someone has taken on the responsibility of posting about a product no one else has, especially one as interesting as the Predator, it should be okay to question the things said in the review. Maybe threads will be taken off the main topic for a minute if people have a clash in ideas (that's where mods can step in if needed), but if it ultimately benefits how others interpret your findings, I think it's for the good of the community, and even, in this specific case, the Predator._

 

There is nothing wrong with healthy debate but sometimes it can run so long that the topic of the thread is lost. I understand what you wanted to know and the reason I mentioned a private email was so that the thread could stay on track and I would then further clarify in the thread what I mean. I am also a critical care nurse and a visual anthropologist and I am working on a book besides doing everything else so I do get tired. I will keep listening and stating the best I can what I am hearing and how I relate to what i am hearing. Puts two fingers together and plays the worlds smallest violin. :^)


 Listening to Chris Isaaks "Forever Blue" the cut Forever Blue has never sound more holographic, deep and fluid. What a treat. Not all the songs sound like this but most of the album is enjoyable but Forever Blue right now is the most lifelike from headphones I have ever heard, something I have read about but never experienced. Don't know if it will last but it is fun for now.

 This Is K2 HD Sound cd. Unbelievable right now.


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *3x331m* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't like visceral impact when I ride trains.... Decay is even worst when you talk about track condition. I really don't like great dynamic when I go on airliners.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

If airlines are so safe, then why do they call them "terminals". That creates a picture of finality 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 It appears that Ray is going to feverishly be sending out mass amouts of predators in time for the day of birth of the being that is being celebrated on December 25th.

 For everyone who receives one...Enjoy your new toy!

 USB should stand for "_*U*nbelievably *S*exy *B*east_"


----------



## ingwe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Train to Machu Picchu 

 I took the train to Machu Picchu a few years ago and as it swayed to and fro, to and fro over cliffs that overlooked the river hundreds of feet below, I wondered, will this train go cascading into the abyss below? To and fro and I knew that the wood ties were old and decaying and more than any train I have ever ridden on, this one swayed to and fro, to and fro and cascading to the abyss below I prayed I would not go._

 

I belive you post gave me motion sickness. Good Job!


----------



## vorlon1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thrice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To me that sounds like separate and impact and not necessarily dynamics. Stereophile defines dynamics and dynamic range as:

Stereophile: Sounds Like? An Audio Glossary


 Now, I'm not saying that Stereophile is the end-all be-all for defining how we use words to describe music, but on the other hand there is something to be said for a standard language that is used to refer to things consistently so we can all infer the same thing from a subjective statement.

 Perhaps that is what boomana is getting at as far as asking for qualifications. It can be difficult to interpret a review or impressions when you have to try to determine what the writer means by "dynamic, musical, bright,... etc.

 just my 2 bits. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Thanks for the link to the Glossary. Having some common reference points helps us not to get too far down this rabbit hole:


 "‘When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less.’

 ‘The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’

 ‘The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master – that’s all.’"


----------



## Elephas

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It was loaned to me._

 

Who loaned you a Predator? Why?

 I want a loaner Predator too.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Elephas* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Who loaned you a Predator? Why?

 I want a loaner Predator too._

 

The Predator is from Ray, he wanted my impression of the sound good or bad. He asked that I just state what I hear and if I like it great and if I don't he could handle that fine, just be honest with him, which I am.


----------



## jude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Elephas* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Who loaned you a Predator? Why?

 I want a loaner Predator too._

 

Over the years, it has become a rather common practice for manufacturers to involve established Head-Fi'ers in evaluating prototypes. (Just do a search on these forums for "prototype.")


----------



## boomana

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Listening to Chris Isaaks "Forever Blue" the cut Forever Blue has never sound more holographic, deep and fluid. What a treat. Not all the songs sound like this but most of the album is enjoyable but Forever Blue right now is the most lifelike from headphones I have ever heard, something I have read about but never experienced. Don't know if it will last but it is fun for now.

 This Is K2 HD Sound cd. Unbelievable right now._

 

Another one has been released? Thanks! I have the first K2 HD sampler CD and found it amazing, especially for evaluating gear. I'm going looking for the one you mentioned now.

 Here's an idea for anyone interested:

 I believe fkclo mentioned, here in the amp forum, the first K2HD cd released as a way to get people to find a common reference for how we form and compare our impressions. I can attest to the quality of the first. Perhaps other interested folk might check out these two (are there more already?) cds if they're getting a Predator. I'd love to hear opinions using the same excellent material.

 EDIT: jamato8, I can't find the K2 HD cd you're referring to. The only new one I can locate is a Flamenco cd (I ordered). Can you help with a link?


----------



## jamato8

Maybe that would be a good idea for the seller of an amp! Provide a test CD. This has often been done in the past but I can see where so many like to compare notes, as in this forum, it would actually come in very handy. 

 I am also finding very good air (the feeling that there is a natural space around performers and instruments and a true since of the acoustical space) and imaging with Eric Clapton's "Unplugged". 

 The site for the CD is:

First Impression Music Inc - Detail


----------



## boomana

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 The site for the CD is:

First Impression Music Inc - Detail_

 

I have and have raved about that one. Maybe I'm confused. I thought you mentioned one with Chris Isaak.


----------



## jamato8

I also mentioned Chris Isaak but it isn't on that label it is another CD I enjoy, if the system is up to it. Forever Blue

 I had mentioned to Shopper that I do not like USB and I had not heard much good from it. I have done much reading on it since then and learned much. With the newer dacs, working with USB has made a convert out of me. I am glad how far they have come but I do wish there was also a method of using this truly as a portable. 

 I wonder what is the smallest USB output device?


----------



## recstar24

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 I wonder what is the smallest USB output device?_

 

I have no idea. What I do know is that if some company comes out with a DAP that can act as a USB host which can feed a portable USB DAC/amp combo, or someone creates a really small device that merely acts as a hard drive space and as a USB transport to feed a USB dac, that thing would probably sell like hotcakes considering the popularity and influx of the various USB DAC/Amp designs that are coming out now.


----------



## boomana

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I also mentioned Chris Isaak but it isn't on that label it is another CD I enjoy, if the system is up to it. Forever Blue_

 

Ah, I had combined the two in my mind. Too bad that it's not on K2 HD, I would have liked that immensely.


----------



## grawk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wonder what is the smallest USB output device?_

 

Good chance it's the turtle beach audio advantage micro


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grawk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good chance it's the turtle beach audio advantage micro_

 

I meant that would have storage (hard drive) and work like the laptop I am now using with the Predator or D1 USB's but be portable, as in easy to carry around. It would be easy enough to get 80 or more gigs on a 2.5 hard drive or 80 on a 1.8 hard drive and then the rest of the electronics in order to make it a readable and usable portable source for a USB dac/amp.


----------



## grawk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I meant that would have storage (hard drive) and work like the laptop I am now using with the Predator or D1 USB's but be portable, as in easy to carry around. It would be easy enough to get 80 or more gigs on a 2.5 hard drive or 80 on a 1.8 hard drive and then the rest of the electronics in order to make it a readable and usable portable source for a USB dac/amp._

 

Ah... it's possible to use the Nokia 810 tablet that way, i believe, and it's pretty darn small.


----------



## jamato8

It has very little storage. The device would need a hard drive and one around 80gb or more.


----------



## grawk

With the ability to be a usb host, that shouldn't really be a show stopper.

 That said, there are lots of 8" or so ultra portables. Dynamism.com - Next Generation Japanese Notebooks and Electronics for examples.


----------



## grawk

Dynamism.com - Next Generation Japanese Notebooks and Electronics-Pricing


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomana* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah, I had combined the two in my mind. Too bad that it's not on K2 HD, I would have liked that immensely._

 

Vicki, looking (and listening to) your K2 HD at the Florida meet, it had an insert of the upcoming releases with dates and contents, so I was confused about Chris Isaak too. Most of the music is classical and/or offbeat, non-mainstream stuff.

 However that Chris Isaak CD is an excellent listen.

 ..and if the comment made about veterans leading the thread astray and offering input other than just about the Predator, then I stand guilty and my apologies. If it was about members offering misleading info to a N00B then that's something different (as theMonkey asked). 
 Sometimes when a thread is going off topic, a little levity can bring it back and add a little enjoyment. I'm glad that the OP (J8) didn't take offense and ran along with it too, until we reached back where we belong.


----------



## boomana

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Vicki, looking (and listening to) your K2 HD at the Florida meet, it had an insert of the upcoming releases with dates and contents, so I was confused about Chris Isaak too. Most of the music is classical and/or offbeat, non-mainstream stuff.

 However that Chris Isaak CD is an excellent listen._

 

Right, and I'd been following the new releases, or so I thought, but since we were both confused by same, I can only say we're both a little stupid. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I looked back at jamato8's post, and he had the two CDs separated by a paragraph space.


----------



## immtbiker

I may be stupid but you're stupider!


----------



## tyrion

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomana* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Right, and I'd been following the new releases, or so I thought, but since we were both confused by same, I can only say we're both a little stupid. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I looked back at jamato8's post, and he had the two CDs separated by a paragraph space._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I may be stupid but you're stupider! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Admitting that you are stupid is the first step to being stupid.


----------



## boomana

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I may be stupid but you're stupider! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hmmm. I'll have to remember that. Are you coming to Mayberry on Acid, my goooood friend?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tyrion* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Admitting that you are stupid is the first step to being stupid.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It's quite freeing, Mike. Try it sometime. If you need help, I'll be glad to take notes of your conversations at Mayberry and read them back to you.


----------



## tyrion

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomana* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmmm. I'll have to remember that. Are you coming to Mayberry on Acid, my goooood friend?



 It's quite freeing, Mike. Try it sometime. If you need help, I'll be glad to take notes of your conversations at Mayberry and read them back to you._

 

I can't count the times I've admitted to it. Having said that, reading me my conversations from Mayberry should be pretty enteraining.


----------



## boomana

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tyrion* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can't count the times I've admitted to it. Having said that, reading me my conversations from Mayberry should be pretty enteraining._

 

Typing it up for others to see should be more entertaining. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Apologies to all for messing up this thread again. Blame the two unruly mods. That's what I'm going to do. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 [/thread crap]


----------



## jamato8

Ok, you guys are screwing with the thread again . . . can we PLEASE stay on track and talk about trains again?????? geez


----------



## boomana

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, you guys are screwing with the thread again . . . can we PLEASE stay on track and talk about trains again?????? geez_

 

Absolutely! Here's a happy train going west to Mayberry. Look, Mike! They've a stewardess-nurse on board. She might not be Tina, but the nurse bit could come in handy. 







 The Predator would be perfect to take on a coast-to-coast train ride.

 * Checking out that smooth segue, aren't you? Yep. I may be stupid, but I'm good.


----------



## jamato8

Good and stupid . . . . I can see this is spiraling out of control. . . where is that bottle of pills, or just a bottle. . . 

 I have been comparing just the amp section of the Predator to the P2, very close with a little more recessed mid and slightly more detail in the upper mid than the P2 and the Reference has just a bit more Open sound. Take this in the context that the Predator is still breaking in. with around 400 hours on it. On the rest of the frequency range I want to wait, these are just a couple of things that pop out. The sound of a drum stick hitting the drum has a more defined sound on the Predator than the P2 at this point. I do have some different opamps coming for the P2, which makes it more difficult to pin down. They all sound pretty darn good. I am using the feed from my Monica II dac for all three amps.


----------



## immtbiker

Thank you for that update J8!

 Hey, if we flew in a *Predator *Drone, coast to coast, while listening to the *Predator *with both uncompressed flac and alac files digitally, and through an iMod or iRiver using the line out, _analogically_, would that be like *Predator *squared?

 See? I can stay on topic! Not that dum, meh?


----------



## grawk

/me gives jamato8 some happy peaceful place pills.


----------



## dmk005

Jamato,

 What kind of battery life are you experiencing and have you noticed any difference in the noise floor when listening while charging?


----------



## jamato8

The Predator sounds better when on battery. It is a little bit brittle in the highs and not as smooth overall when on the charger because once the battery has a charge it is taken out of the circuit and you are running on the charger. Ray stated that with the battery you have a certain capacitance but this is gone when using the charger. I have run it off of the Tekkeon battery and the sound is fine, much the same as the internal battery.

 I haven't run this out from a full charge but it is supposed to get around 56 hours depending upon the current draw/volume being used.


----------



## jamato8

At 425 hours the Predator seems to be evening out. It is very open, smooth and on well recorded music like Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon", throws tremendous depth and width with fine imaging and solid well controlled bass. It does not have character that changes the music but changes with the music giving you musical entertainment when the recording is decent or better and not so enjoyable when not. As I stated early on there is a very slightly warm presentation, which is a positive for IEM's and with anything else I have listening with.


----------



## itsborken

How's it's DAC measuring up vs. that of the D1?


----------



## jamato8

I did not like the sound of the USB going into the iBasso so I never really used it so I ran the USB into the iBasso into the amp section of the Predator overnight. The sound actually smoothed out so it may have been the other USB cable, the USB section of the iBasso not being broken in or something else but this AM it sounds pretty good out of the iBasso. I noticed more detail than what I was hearing from the Predator and then went back to the Predator USB and noticed the same detail so it seems a further change with the Predator amp section but anyway they both sound very good. The Predator is maybe a little smoother on USB but I will have to compare more. Spatial presentation is about the same at this point, very open with no boxy or closed in sound and neither being "in your face" type of sound.

 The USB dac section of the D1 has a little more information in the upper mids/lower high frequencies. I don't know if this is an emphasis in this area or just more detail from the dac section. I will have to listen further. 

 The output from the D1 is higher than running straight out of the Predator so that has to be adjusted (when using the amp section of the Predator to compare the two the Predator amp/dac has to be turned up to match the volume of the D1 USB dac to the amp of the Predator).

 The amp section of the Predator is showing itself to have good resolving abilities. I can also hear that the bass of the D1 is stronger than the dac section of the Predator but that the bass of the Predator is more defined.


----------



## itsborken

Very good, thanks for the description/comparison.


----------



## nickknutson

Can you use the DAC and the amp at the same time? Or when you're using the DAC do you need to feed it to an amp?
 It just wouldn't make sense if the amp was disabled when the DAC was active.


----------



## red sox 7327

You can use both at the same time. I don't think its possible to use only the DAC.


----------



## Ray Samuels

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nickknutson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can you use the DAC and the amp at the same time? Or when you're using the DAC do you need to feed it to an amp?
 It just wouldn't make sense if the amp was disabled when the DAC was active._

 

You can not listen to the DAC by itself on the Predator, as the output of the DAC, analog, is fed to the selector switch on the front panel, the selector switch connects the DAC output to the input of the amp.

 You can listen to the amp alone as you can connect the output of any source to the stereo mini jack input of the amp & flip the selector switch to input position to listen to your external analog source. If the Predator is not connected to computer via USB the DAC on the Predator is not powered by the internal battery of the Predator, it is just sitting there in an off mode.

 You can connect both, the computer via USB & any source like iPOD via line out to the Predator, and flip the selector switch between the two sources choosing either one by selecting either USB or INPUT.

 Happy Holidays
 Ray Samuels


----------



## upstateguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *n_maher* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_






 I believe in a bit of burn in but *[size=small]"electromagnetic influence and electron flow"[/size]*?_


----------



## Mazuki

The Pico uses a 24bit/192khz DAC chip while the Predator uses one of TI's combination USB receiver/DAC chips similar to the AlienDAC no?


----------



## jamato8

What is burn in or forming if part of the influence isn't by electromagnetic influence and electron flow? There is plenty to read on this and it has been around, the knowledge of, for many, many years. Even a friend who developed vacuum tubes for RCA was extremely aware of it and he was aware of, as were other RCA engineers, in a burn in process. This dates back to the late 40's and on into the 50's and 1960's. There is little that is new, just reworked and reworded.

 I believe the Predator used a combination chip, and the Pico uses the dac chip mentioned. Implementation is what it is all about. 

 One thing I haven't mentioned is the fit and finish of the Predator. As usual it is up to the extremely high standards of Ray. Much like a fine watch in fit and finish. I thought the volume knob was plastic because it was so perfectly made but after I thought about it I couldn't imagine Ray using plastic and after examining it I realized it is metal. Everything fits perfectly together on the case with little room for any error in tolerance.


----------



## jamato8

I wanted to wait for more time to pass as the Predator transitions through different stages. 

 At approximately 475 hours the bass became overwhelming. I thought there was something wrong with the amp or my ears so I did a comparison and it was the Predator. I haven't had a component change to such a great degree. The bass was as if I had a max bass switch and doubled that. I put down the headphones after confirming with my other amps and sources that it wasn't my ears or anything else and let the Predator burn in over night as this started in the evening. The next day the overpowering bass was gone but the sound was somewhat bright. 

 500 hours. I am at around 510 hours now and the sound has become more even in the frequency range. The bass is well defined and on well recorded music the depth and width are very good. I think that with the large capacitor that the Predator uses, as with a number of other portable amps that Ray produces, the time required for the final sound to materialize, should be understood. I have found this can not be rushed and is just part of the process.


----------



## Jaw007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When it comes to dac and many IC's there are many influences going on. Do some investigation. 

 I received the Predator with 300 hours, as stated, and have a little over 60 hours of my own use now. Of course I don't listen 24 hours a day, but I think most people could understand that with a little bit of thought. 

 Oh, and spread out what is inside of a dac and some of the other devices on a breadboard with all of the required resistors, transistors and associated parts and build a dac if you want to see how complicated a circuit we are dealing with._

 

 You being a Cardiac critical care nurse, Visual Anthropologist, Professional photographer,Where do you find all the time listening and evaluating all of these amps?


----------



## Jalo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jaw007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You being a Cardiac critical care nurse, Visual Anthropologist, Professional photographer,Where do you find all the time listening and evaluating all of these amps?_

 

Of course, he listen to his amp while providing cardiac critical care.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jaw007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You being a Cardiac critical care nurse, Visual Anthropologist, Professional photographer,Where do you find all the time listening and evaluating all of these amps?_

 

As I go back and forth and taking small breaks looking at Headfi, I am listening to music and working on a book from some research with the Aymara Indians in northern Chile. I keep pretty busy. Some time in the future I will post some of the images from northern Chile on my web site. Thank you for asking. If you haven't already I invite you to view some of what I saw in China, Nepal and Tibet on my web site. There are also two UNESCO and UNDESA projects that I did the visual anthropology/natural history photography for.


----------



## Jaw007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jalo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Of course, he listen to his amp while providing cardiac critical care.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

If Ray would donate these fine amps to Cardiac patients to listen to,I'm sure they would be curied,and up and dancing in no time at all!


----------



## jamato8

That would be a site. It is remarkable though how fast some patients get up and around after major open heart surgery. I have had pts walking down the hall 3 days after having their chest split open and some still unable to do very much after a week. It isn't always the physical condition of the pt but that does help. Then I have some that code and either don't make it or go back for another round. Ah, music to make the stay that much more enjoyable and to pass the time. Up dancing with their IV poles would be a strange site. 

 The Predator has taken on a very fine presentation of the musical stage. The top end is sweet but very detailed and the mids are nice and lush.


----------



## Jaw007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As I go back and forth and taking small breaks looking at Headfi, I am listening to music and working on a book from some research with the Aymara Indians in northern Chile. I keep pretty busy. Some time in the future I will post some of the images from northern Chile on my web site. Thank you for asking. If you haven't already I invite you to view some of what I saw in China, Nepal and Tibet on my web site. There are also two UNESCO and UNDESA projects that I did the visual anthropology/natural history photography for._

 

 I was just joking ,I really respect you,and all of your information>I was inspired by you to purchase an iBasso P2,and you were right it sounds great.Keep up the good work,and I shall be reading.


----------



## powertoold

This is some weird amp, 475hrs, super bass, then few hours later, back to normal but bright, then at 500hrs, everything is good again? lol


----------



## tnmike1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *powertoold* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is some weird amp, 475hrs, super bass, then few hours later, back to normal but bright, then at 500hrs, everything is good again? lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

This is basically what happened with my Hornet and most definitely my Portaphile--went thru all these sonic gyrations before finally settling into a very delightfully musical amp


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jaw007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If Ray would donate these fine amps to Cardiac patients to listen to,I'm sure they would be curied,and up and dancing in no time at all!_

 

As long as you are going to "curry" a curied patient, you might as well add some Roti and Mango Chutney. 
 West Indian food is delicious. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My Portaphile and Hornet _also _went through some serious convulsions around 300 hours and then took a stand.


----------



## jlingo

Just got my Predator. It sounds I would say, flat, and not that involving at the moment. it's got soundstage, and depth, but not impressive. High, I would say shrill, I would pick my AE-2 anytime. Burning-in is starting now.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jlingo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got my Predator. It sounds I would say, flat, and not that involving at the moment. it's got soundstage, and depth, but not impressive. High, I would say shrill, I would pick my AE-2 anytime. Burning-in is starting now._

 

Yep, exactly what I got at first. I thought, "whoa, this thing sucks, what was Ray thinking?" It takes some time to open up and goes through more changes than Jim Carrey in The Mask.


----------



## jamato8

Near 600 hours and I am still experiencing changes and not always subtle ones.


----------



## jamato8

What I have is my Monica II dac that I run from battery power that is very stable and has thousands of hours on it and the dac section of the D1. I compare to both of these as a reference point. When I question what I hear I listen to them using the P2 and Xin Reference. I also listen to just the amp section of the Predator. I use a track from Cris Isaak's "Forever Blue" -Forever blue- very often because it has a great sense of acoustical space and when done right, presents him as a very 3d acoustical image. When this track isn't right it can sound flat and lacking in air and transparency.

 enjoying a read on some advanced inform regarding the pathophysiology of atherosclerosis right now and listening to some fine muuusac. :^)


----------



## jlingo

Gee my predator charging seems endless. I haven't seen the light turns green or blinking even yet! It has been couple of hours!


----------



## jamato8

It doesn't turn green, it just stops blinking so I would guess you have a full charge.


----------



## slwiser

So you are testing it against a standard, much better than what I was thinking.


----------



## jlingo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It doesn't turn green, it just stops blinking so I would guess you have a full charge._

 

Mine doesn't even blink. I haven't seen it blinking yet. is that normal?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jlingo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine doesn't even blink. I haven't seen it blinking yet. is that normal?_

 

Yeah, the blinking can be hard to see. I noticed it the other day and then realized it doesn't BLINK but dims just a little as it blinks. You have to go into a darkened room. LOL I don't know, it doesn't blink real obvious but I haven't had any problems keeping this one charged.


 I reported earlier that the gain switch did not change the sound but it does, a little. In the 0 gain it is slightly warmer and decreases in warmth as you go to the highest gain setting but this is a minor change but convenient as even in the 0 gain I have enough for my headphones.


----------



## jlingo

Yeah me too, I prefer to set the gain on low. It's somewhat more musical, slower, airy, tubey, better decay, relaxed and warm compare to being set to mid and high. It's in fact very noticable.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, the blinking can be hard to see. I noticed it the other day and then realized it doesn't BLINK but dims just a little as it blinks. You have to go into a darkened room. LOL I don't know, it doesn't blink real obvious but I haven't had any problems keeping this one charged.


 I reported earlier that the gain switch did not change the sound but it does, a little. In the 0 gain it is slightly warmer and decreases in warmth as you go to the highest gain setting but this is a minor change but convenient as even in the 0 gain I have enough for my headphones._


----------



## OptionTrader

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jlingo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine doesn't even blink. I haven't seen it blinking yet. is that normal?_

 

I'm on my second day with my new Predator. After speaking to Ray about exactly this subject, he advised me that simply charging it for 2 to 3 hours would get the job done if you needed to do it during the day. Another alternative is to plug it in overnight to be sure. There is absolutely no risk of overcharging.

 The subtle blinking of the power switch LED only happens briefly while the unit is switched on while charging. If switched off, you will notice nothing.


----------



## OptionTrader

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Near 600 hours and I am still experiencing changes and not always subtle ones._

 

I'm not even at 60 hours yet and the burn-in reminds me of my experience with my Hornet. 400 hours or so into that burn-in and it really started to show its qualities. I've been very happy with the Hornet and am looking forward to the maturing of my Predator.


----------



## elnero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep, exactly what I got at first. I thought, "whoa, this thing sucks, what was Ray thinking?" It takes some time to open up and goes through more changes than Jim Carrey in The Mask._

 

Wait, I'm confused, I thought you said the one you were sent had 300 hours on it already.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *elnero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wait, I'm confused, I thought you said the one you were sent had 300 hours on it already._

 

That's right, it had 300 hours but when I fired it up the cap took a couple of hours to settle and for the sound to become focused. I have often heard this with equipment that has been off for a while.

 If you go to the first page from the 18th of December, I mentioned this in the beginning of the second paragraph.


----------



## mitchb

Does it matter wether or not the unit is on or off when charging overnight? I just got a Zune. Perhaps not the best but I just discovered portable. COOL!!


----------



## OptionTrader

It doesn't matter if the Predator is switched on or off while charging. You're good to go either way.


----------



## jamato8

It can be charged on or off. It is designed not to overcharge the battery.


----------



## OptionTrader

We must have hit the submit button at the same time jamato8.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep, exactly what I got at first. I thought, "whoa, this thing sucks, what was Ray thinking?" It takes some time to open up and goes through more changes than Jim Carrey in The Mask. 




_

 

So, what does it mean when mine sounded nice (not perfect, but not flat, sucky or dull) right out of the box?

 I have 28 hours on predator now and it sounds very nice. I haven't compared it yet to the rest of my plethora of amps yet, but I will. I am burning in the DAC and Amp together with my Proline 2500 which now have about 76 hours on them and are sounding really good too. Makes me want to save the New Edition 9 for later - got them in today but I'm afraid to listen to them


----------



## Jaw007

I was afraid to listen to a new amp that I got over a week ago,and still have not listened to it yet!


----------



## mp101

Burning mine in now, sounds good so far, using flac through USB (using Foobar), its been on now for 19 hours, just on the charge it came with. I'll post more later


----------



## elnero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's right, it had 300 hours but when I fired it up the cap took a couple of hours to settle and for the sound to become focused. I have often heard this with equipment that has been off for a while.

 If you go to the first page from the 18th of December, I mentioned this in the beginning of the second paragraph._

 

Ok, that was weird, I posted that last night before I went to bed, got up this morning and not only did I not see a reply but I didn't see my original post. Not a big surprise, I'm on dial-up so sometimes things time out and I don't realize it so I reposted a little bit ago, I check again and now my original post and subsequent reply are there while the one I just posted is gone???

 Anyhow, yes I've read the thread and even with the cap settling in as you say I didn't think you would equate one with 300 hours on it to a new one, it was just a confusing statement to me. So what do you attribute this settling period you experienced to, the amp having not been used for a period of time or something else?


----------



## OptionTrader

With the ridiculous (in a good way) battery life that the Predator offers, you could simply leave it switched on all the time and forget about the "settling period" altogether. Just plug in the charger every few days or so.


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jaw007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was afraid to listen to a new amp that I got over a week ago,and still have not listened to it yet!_

 

I believe that you should listen to any component that people claim improve over time with burn-in. This way, you and your new toy get to mature together and you can experience the ups and downs of the unit will it it's ready for the Cotillion. 
 Sort of like getting a dog that's not paper trained and still needs all the shots. You will have a more intimate history with your friend when you go through the maturing curve with it. It's like getting a new amp every three days.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *elnero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ So what do you attribute this settling period you experienced to, the amp having not been used for a period of time or something else?_

 

I would guess not being on for a while. It only took a couple of hours and the sound became focussed and has stayed that way. 

 I agree on leaving the unit on. I always leave my solid-state devices on.


----------



## boomana

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jaw007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was afraid to listen to a new amp that I got over a week ago,and still have not listened to it yet!_

 

That's craaazy talk. Break it out, throw on some music, and enjoy it. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sort of like getting a dog that's not paper trained and still needs all the shots._

 

This is the analogy you came up with?


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomana* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is the analogy you came up with? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It was one that hits close to home with me. I could have used the "virgin and patience" theory, but I thought the cute puppy analogy would be better suited.


----------



## boomana

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It was one that hits close to home with me. I could have used the "virgin and patience" theory, but I thought the cute puppy analogy would be better suited. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

okie dokie then.


----------



## tyrion

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jaw007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was afraid to listen to a new amp that I got over a week ago,and still have not listened to it yet!_

 

Immediately go get the amp and start using it. This stuff about letting it sit around to burn in is nuts. Enjoy the amp. If it sounds good now, it will continue to sound good.


----------



## addz

Is their any indication that the predator is being charged?, or will the switch only glow red when it is fully charged. Just wondering since mines been charging for about 4 hours now. And i want to get using it.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *addz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is their any indication that the predator is being charged?, or will the switch only glow red when it is fully charged. Just wondering since mines been charging for about 4 hours now. And i want to get using it._

 

You can use it while being charged with no problem and it most likely came with some charge. The on/off switch is red when on and does not change color. It lightly blinks when charging but it is not always easy to see the lightly blinking light. I would imagine it didn't take long to top off the battery so start using it! :^)


----------



## mitchb

Mine is sounding better daily. I'm not worried about it but am enjoying the amp now. What has me a little thrown is Jamato stating that he got his predator with 300 hours burn in on it to begin with and claims to still be hearing differences both good or bad after 600 hours. I am a firm believer any component will change over a 300 hour burn in gradualy over the next 300 first or so hours and then perhaps subtle changes there after for up to 500 or 600 hours but the fact that Jamato claims all these "mood swings' of the amp between 300 and 600 hours are so drastic has me a little perplexed. I suppose my Cardas Golden Cross cables had this kind of burn in time so perhaps it's not all that unusual. 
 For the record, for those who have not heard the Predator, it is a very nice sounding amp regardles it's size. I have maybe 2 days play on mine. I required to charge it one since the day befor Christmas. I have only the RSA HR-2 to compare it to so it's definately holding it's own. Using the usb dac is an obvious improvement over my creative extreme music sound blaster card line out to the amp only which sounds good itself.


----------



## addz

thanks jamato8, i only ask if their is indication if the predator is charging because when mine is charging (plugged into the mains) i do not see any blinking whatsoever, maybe its not even charging.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mitchb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine is sounding better daily. I'm not worried about it but am enjoying the amp now. What has me a little thrown is Jamato stating that he got his predator with 300 hours burn in on it to begin with and claims to still be hearing differences both good or bad after 600 hours. I am a firm believer any component will change over a 300 hour burn in gradualy over the next 300 first or so hours and then perhaps subtle changes there after for up to 500 or 600 hours but the fact that Jamato claims all these "mood swings' of the amp between 300 and 600 hours are so drastic has me a little perplexed. I suppose my Cardas Golden Cross cables had this kind of burn in time so perhaps it's not all that unusual. 
 For the record, for those who have not heard the Predator, it is a very nice sounding amp regardles it's size. I have maybe 2 days play on mine. I required to charge it one since the day befor Christmas. I have only the RSA HR-2 to compare it to so it's definately holding it's own. Using the usb dac is an obvious improvement over my creative extreme music sound blaster card line out to the amp only which sounds good itself._

 

I was surprised myself. I used other references when I was in doubt, to rule out my ears/mind hearing/perceiving something different. I would not say the changes were "drastic" but to me they were noticable. I don't have quite 600 hours on the unit yet (approaching 590) but it seems to have evened out.


----------



## jlingo

Ok I'm running my predator of iMOD VCAP with Apuresound ER-4P and UE11. They sound outstanding. The midrange is just intoxicating. I don't like the DAC just yet though. too dry sounding and thin to my ears.


----------



## williamchc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *addz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thanks jamato8, i only ask if their is indication if the predator is charging because when mine is charging (plugged into the mains) i do not see any blinking whatsoever, maybe its not even charging._

 

mine also, no indication when charging.
 i just plug it to the charger for 8-9 hours, then stop charging it and enjoy~

 The predator works great with my ES3, better than tomahawk in many ways(Although tomahawk is cool).


----------



## addz

^ may as well. I used the predator first time until i could clearly hear that the battery needed to be charged, then left it charging for about 3-4 hours and now seems as if its fully charged. Next time i will prob only charge up to 2 hours as recommended.


----------



## OptionTrader

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *addz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ may as well. I used the predator first time until i could clearly hear that the battery needed to be charged, then left it charging for about 3-4 hours and now seems as if its fully charged. Next time i will prob only charge up to 2 hours as recommended._

 

Leaving it plugged in for more than 2 hours will not be a problem as the battery is protected from overcharging.


----------



## jamato8

So what are some listening impressions so far?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Pretty Darn Impressive at 76 hours.

 It drives my New Edition 9's (12 hours) to perfection as well...


----------



## MrSlacker

do you guys keep a log book where you record when and how long you are using the amp?


----------



## jamato8

My log is on here and a few notes on my computer. I know when I got the amp and keep it running all the time so I normally know how much time it has on it. Well normally, but I have been known to miscalculate so just say, Hey if you got this on the 17th of Dec with 300 hours of use and you run it all the time how could you have 1000 hours and you have only had it 10 days. Oh, yeah. . . . recalculate.. . :^). So as a log with a known start date and hours of burn-in prior to use, this thread is documentation for me. 

 On a normal basis I wouldn't want to keep a log but I thought it might be kind of interesting, maybe. . . .


----------



## jamato8

I am at around 650 hours minus 12. I turned the amp off for around 12 hours as I find that this works better in the forming of the caps then leaving them on all the time. I first discussed this with Audio Note UK many years ago and found it had been their practice for some time. 

 The amp at this point has very good bass definition in that it is placed within the recording where it should be and not just bass notes. It has speed and impact that flows with the rhythm of the music as an integral part. The upper mids have just the right amount of bite to them, which is something I like, as it imparts a realism and excitement to the music. 

 While listening to Jackson Browne in his live solo acoustical album (a very well recorded and enjoyable album) the crowd is placed well back and yet they are distinct and definable. The clapping is neither a mass of static or over emphasized but placed at a believable and natural distance. You can feel the hall ambience and space. The vocal rendering of Jackson Browne has a good tonal quality with just enough feeling of chest volume. The piano he plays has nice weight and pace with beautiful hanging notes. The guitar has a sweet sound and you can hear the body of the instrument. This isn't a home amp but it is, in my opinion, one of the elite of portable units.


----------



## chouman

Which headphones are you using in this review?


----------



## jamato8

I use the Ultrasone 750's and the HD650's. I have also used the PortaPros when walking around and I have used the UM2's (but limited as I don't really like them).


----------



## Leo-

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grawk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah... it's possible to use the Nokia 810 tablet that way, i believe, and it's pretty darn small._

 

grawk,

 are you sure that the N810 could be used as a digital audio source?


----------



## Leo-

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am at around 650 hours minus 12. I turned the amp off for around 12 hours as I find that this works better in the forming of the caps then leaving them on all the time. I first discussed this with Audio Note UK many years ago and found it had been their practice for some time. 
_

 

so, j8, do you have a suggestion of burning-in process for this? something like leave it on all the time and turn off for 12 hours from time to time? 

 I guess that what´s playing would make some difference too, doesnt it? or do you count the time there´s no music flowing too?


----------



## jamato8

I use the music I like to listen to but pink noise can also be used. Pink noise can over load an amp because of the entire frequency range used. In this case I wouldn't worry about it as I am referring to amps used for speakers if used at too high a volume and for a long period of time. I would think the extra current demand of the pink noise might speed up the process and yes a period of 8 to 10 hours of down time periodically seems to work well in the forming of the caps. No, I don't count the time when no music is playing as there is no signal going through the amp. The caps do have a charge on them but very minimal current is flowing.


----------



## grawk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Leo-* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_grawk,

 are you sure that the N810 could be used as a digital audio source? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm pretty sure it can be used as a usb host. Plug the pico in, and play back.


----------



## jlingo

Predator DAC became musical now, that's a good improvement after 50hrs of burning in. I wouldn't want to go into the details yet. So the DAC side sounds better now. The first time I received it, I couldn't really listen to the DAC. It was just too dry and digital, but not anymore.

 Anyone knows how is the size of predator compared to the Tomahawk?


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jlingo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone knows how is the size of predator compared to the Tomahawk?_

 

Read the last 10 pages of the thread, it is stated a couple of times.
 Before asking a question, please read the thread to see if it has already been asked.


----------



## chowk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Read the last 10 pages of the thread, it is stated a couple of times.
 Before asking a question, please read the thread to see if it has already been asked. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Alternatively, you could try searching this thread...


----------



## SR-71Panorama

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Read the last 10 pages of the thread, it is stated a couple of times.
 Before asking a question, please read the thread to see if it has already been asked. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Whats a predator?


----------



## Jaw007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Read the last 10 pages of the thread, it is stated a couple of times.
 Before asking a question, please read the thread to see if it has already been asked. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Some threads are so long people just don't have all day to read hundreds of posts!


----------



## IvanBarista

I have the Predator since 27DEC. Been Using a old XLO Pink Noise + Tone Sweep Track To run it none stop since. To my limited head amp experience... this is really Good. Too Good, Both via HD580 & ER4s. details and Drive are both Great after a few days of burning-in.
 I was going to Get 'the Hornet' from Ray. then I discover 'the Predator is coming....so price is good and I was very surprise the SQ is so good even better than my three year old headroom Supreme.
 My question is have anyone use this amp with the Beyer BT880? as I know My HD580 is only so good. I am looking to get one of either Senn HD650, AKG K701, or the Beyer BT880.
 Any suggestion comments are welcome.


----------



## jamato8

Well if you like the Senn sound the HD650 is a good one. I am listening to them right now on the Predator. It can push them way beyond a volume you could ever listen to. They sound very nice with the Predator, being well controlled, dynamic and with good tonal bass. I would listen to my 650's more as they work very well and come alive with the Predator but they are open headphones and I am too near the person I am working with all day.


----------



## k371n

Ok, so I've finally setup fb2k + asio4all
 and hooked up the predator to my comp's USB port.

 Playing a couple of ALAC files now via fb2k
 and noted the music volume via my UM2 to be much lower
 compared to using the regular Ipod-dock-to-predator-input.

 I've set the gain to medium and dialed it up till just over "10am".
 I only have it around "8am" while using low-gain and Ipod.

 I wonder how it'll be able to handle the HD650 via USB DAC..
 Any ideas anyone?

 cheers
 k_

 [edit]
 ok, silly me.
 Into control panel, sounds and audio devices, select audio tab,
 select a different sound playback default device -- namely the USB
 Audio Dac -- click on volume button and set volume to max 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 All is good now.
 Just remember to lower the predator volume or unplug phones
 before doing the above especially if you're wearing IEMs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Ouch.


----------



## Jalo

Jamato8, I am new the to portable Amp arena, so I can't really doubt your opinion with regard to the need for 600+ burn in hour for the Predator. But I think about it a number of times if it really need that many burn in hours for the predator? It would seem that the traditional wisdom for burn in is around 300-400 hrs at most for headphone or amp. I have a Predator and I have about 50 hrs of burn in and I thought it sounded pretty good. It may continuous to improve but so far so good.


----------



## jamato8

When I received the Predator it had 300 hours of use. I continued to hear changes after that so I can only report what I have heard. In the area of Burn-in, I find no traditional wisdom. :^)


----------



## OptionTrader

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jaw007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Some threads are so long people just don't have all day to read hundreds of posts!_

 

That's why there is a _Search this Thread_ tool at the top of the page. Threads would be shorter if more people searched first and then posted, wouldn't they?


----------



## jamato8

I just learned how to subscribe to threads after all this time now there is a "search this thread" !! Wow, cool. :^)


----------



## OptionTrader

I thought it was pretty cool when I first tried it.


----------



## powertoold

Jamato, how does the Predator compare to the P2 amp or the D1 Dac?

 I'm interested in buying a D2, but I'm not sure I would be satisfied.


----------



## jlingo

Ok now about 100hrs and I prefer Predator DAC with itunes, than Predator iMOD combination. Using the DAC predator sounds BIG, rich, musical, dynamic, it's no longer sterile nor boring.

 At the moment, running of iMOD, the bass seems missing, the sound is 2D, weak and flat. Strange, it's more on a boring side. :/


----------



## vcoheda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In the area of Burn-in, I find no traditional wisdom. :^)_

 

that be da truth.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jlingo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok now about 100hrs and I prefer Predator DAC with itunes, than Predator iMOD combination. Using the DAC predator sounds BIG, rich, musical, dynamic, it's no longer sterile nor boring.

 At the moment, running of iMOD, the bass seems missing, the sound is 2D, weak and flat. Strange, it's more on a boring side. :/_

 

I am glad you have a reference to compare to. I think this makes it much easier to determine what you are hearing is a real change or not and not something based on mood, hearing fatigue or any number of other variables. I find that having my Monica II dac with an optical feed from the iRiver as a reference to gauge from I have a solid point to work from.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *powertoold* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jamato, how does the Predator compare to the P2 amp or the D1 Dac?

 I'm interested in buying a D2, but I'm not sure I would be satisfied._

 

Knowing what the D1 dac sounds like with the P2, which will be the amp section, I don't think you would be disappointed at all. 

 I have not any strong comparisons as I really want to make sure the Predator has settled and then I will do a head on comparison.


----------



## slwiser

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jlingo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok now about 100hrs and I prefer Predator DAC with itunes, than Predator iMOD combination. Using the DAC predator sounds BIG, rich, musical, dynamic, it's no longer sterile nor boring.

 At the moment, running of iMOD, the bass seems missing, the sound is 2D, weak and flat. Strange, it's more on a boring side. :/_

 

It sounds like your iMod broke while listening to your Predator based on your past comments: (post #8 in thread below)

 <<_V-cap is making the sound more 3 Dimensional, better depth, with texture, and airy floaty. The midrange becomes much sweeter highly emotional. The sound is very articulate, It's got those swinging, pull and push kinda sound. Sorry I don't know the proper way to describe it.

 between iPOD and VCap. it's like the comparing the same person singing. One is singing without any emotion flat, and the other one could give you a goose bump. you should be able to tell something easier about how the singer feels.

 V-Cap = High Musicality with Emotions!_ >>http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f15/my...crobag-264559/

 Does this mean that the Predator is better than your Lisa III you have with the iMod and V-cap device? Or am I misunderstanding you. Has the iMod changed that much?


----------



## OptionTrader

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jlingo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok now about 100hrs and I prefer Predator DAC with itunes, than Predator iMOD combination. Using the DAC predator sounds BIG, rich, musical, dynamic, it's no longer sterile nor boring._

 

At about 200 hours now, my Predator fed by a MacBook Pro has now ruined my opinion of every DAP->portable amp combination I own.

 What do I get to carry around now?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OptionTrader* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_At about 200 hours now, my Predator fed by a MacBook Pro has now ruined my opinion of every DAP->portable amp combination I own.

 What do I get to carry around now? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

A backpack and extra battery pack for that laptop..............lol Why do you think I have been searching for the smallest computer with a usb out?


----------



## Capunk

Does anyone here compare Predator Amp with SR-71?


----------



## IvanBarista

For me , at 200 Hrs, the sound stage widens, and the high note extension is magic. the eagles, hell freezes over, hotel California. the audience applause and clap is really 3D. while the musicians are all very still.

 I agree the DAC section is what i use to Paid $1000's in my HiFi days. 
 I have to say once the music gone to the digital age to the masses, the improvements are made in leaps and bounds. 

 I know this must be Rays trade secret, but what DAC is inside the predator? what is the Bit rate / sampling rate this chip can do? 

 in last few years as far as '$ vs quality' goes, it has pass what i did consider as Audiophile ten years ago, is now within everyday peoples wallet.


----------



## vorlon1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Capunk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone here compare Predator Amp with SR-71?_

 

In about a month I expect to be making that comparison, so stay tuned.


----------



## jlingo

150hrs burn-in:
 with iMOD Vcap Predator UE11(Low Gain) Sounds laid back but at the same time, the midrange is kinda muffled sounding, less clarity, less open. Bass is sort of overboost. Low-Gain is yucky sounding!

 With Mid-Gain, the midrange really opens up. Well balance, the bass is not overpowering the rest of spectrum.
 At this time however, Hornet still sounds better to my ears in terms of midrange, very holographic.

 It's funny that Low Gain, Mid Gain, High Gain, sound different. I don't know what is the optimum gain for predator? Any recommendation by Ray?


----------



## The Monkey

Has anyone, thus far, compared a burned-in Predator with a brand new one? Forgive me if this has been asked already.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jlingo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_150hrs burn-in:
 with iMOD Vcap Predator UE11(Low Gain) Sounds laid back but at the same time, the midrange is kinda muffled sounding, less clarity, less open. Bass is sort of overboost. Low-Gain is yucky sounding!

 With Mid-Gain, the midrange really opens up. Well balance, the bass is not overpowering the rest of spectrum.
 At this time however, Hornet still sounds better to my ears in terms of midrange, very holographic.

 It's funny that Low Gain, Mid Gain, High Gain, sound different. I don't know what is the optimum gain for predator? Any recommendation by Ray?_

 

I think it depends upon what you are driving. In some of my impressions that I have posted I mentioned that I heard a difference with the low gain being the warmest and the high gain being cooler sounding and a little more open but only a little. The mid gain, down position, is what I use most often.
 I also think the low gain will open up and the mids will improve with burn-in but the nice thing is you can compare to the other gains as time goes on and decide for yourself.


----------



## jlingo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slwiser* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It sounds like your iMod broke while listening to your Predator based on your past comments: (post #8 in thread below)

 <<V-cap is making the sound more 3 Dimensional, better depth, with texture, and airy floaty. The midrange becomes much sweeter highly emotional. The sound is very articulate, It's got those swinging, pull and push kinda sound. Sorry I don't know the proper way to describe it.

 between iPOD and VCap. it's like the comparing the same person singing. One is singing without any emotion flat, and the other one could give you a goose bump. you should be able to tell something easier about how the singer feels.

 V-Cap = High Musicality with Emotions! >>http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f15/my...crobag-264559/

 Does this mean that the Predator is better than your Lisa III you have with the iMod and V-cap device? Or am I misunderstanding you. Has the iMod changed that much?_

 

Hi Hi,

 no it's not the imod, it's the predator that is changing at the moment. I was comparing between iMOD Vcap with predator or Computer source with predator. The sound changes was pretty obvious IMO. At one point, running predator with iMOD resulting in flatless 2D, bassless sound which was very unusual and contradictory, shocking. but that's what I was hearing. It's defininitely not the fault of imod nor vcap, because only one variable that is currently changing at this point, burning-in predator.

 I hope there are other users who could contribute to this burn-in events in great details.

 What makes predator harder to evaluate also is that it sounds different between gains(Low, Mid, High). 

 LISA cannot be compared with predator at this time. IMO is still a much better amp if only it doesn't hiss 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 LISA has a bigger soundstage better separation, clarity, holographic, dynamic, resolution, imaging, pretty much better in every aspect at the moment. Predator sounds thin in comparison.

 But hey, predator sound is not final yet, not until I get to at least 300hrs of burn-in.

 At this time, I find hornet midrange is more holographic and hypnotizing than predator.


----------



## jlingo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vorlon1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In about a month I expect to be making that comparison, so stay tuned._

 

As far as I recall owning SR-71, the sound was magic BIG SOUNDSTAGE and AIR with a MATCHING system, without really having to burn-in, IMO.


----------



## jlingo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think it depends upon what you are driving. In some of my impressions that I have posted I mentioned that I heard a difference with the low gain being the warmest and the high gain being cooler sounding and a little more open but only a little. The mid gain, down position, is what I use most often.
 I also think the low gain will open up and the mids will improve with burn-in but the nice thing is you can compare to the other gains as time goes on and decide for yourself._

 

yeah with UE11 it actually opens up a lot using gain mid to high, especially the midrange area which is still not enough though for my taste at this point.


----------



## slwiser

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jlingo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Hi,

 no it's not the imod, it's the predator that is changing at the moment. I was comparing between iMOD Vcap with predator or Computer source with predator. The sound changes was pretty obvious IMO. At one point, running predator with iMOD resulting in flatless 2D, bassless sound which was very unusual and contradictory, shocking. but that's what I was hearing. It's defininitely not the fault of imod nor vcap, because only one variable that is currently changing at this point, burning-in predator.

 I hope there are other users who could contribute to this burn-in events in great details.

 What makes predator harder to evaluate also is that it sounds different between gains(Low, Mid, High). 

 LISA cannot be compared with predator at this time. IMO is still a much better amp if only it doesn't hiss 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 LISA has a bigger soundstage better separation, clarity, holographic, dynamic, resolution, imaging, pretty much better in every aspect at the moment. Predator sounds thin in comparison.

 But hey, predator sound is not final yet, not until I get to at least 300hrs of burn-in.

 At this time, I find hornet midrange is more holographic and hypnotizing than predator._

 

Thanks for the clarification. I get mixed up sometimes and confused when reading even my own posts much less others.


----------



## jlingo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jlingo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yeah with UE11 it actually opens up a lot using gain mid to high, especially the midrange area which is still not enough though for my taste at this point._

 

Ahhh now much better hypnotizing. I was hooked!! I changed my mini to mini cable from Cardas to Panorama by CablePro. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's just magic 3D, sounds so big and airy and wide. Who says all cables created equal 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 hehe. Too bad panorama cable is so stiff so hard for on the go kinda environment.

 Better than off computer DAC combination. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Perhaps predator is very transparent and sensitive, an amp that is capable of revealing everything that is being fed into, and my cardas mini to mini therefore was a limiting factor? who knows. But my cardas also has got only little hours on it. Now, I have to let my cardas mini to mini burn-in for at least 100hrs as well.


----------



## jamato8

I used to make high quality high purity silver IC's that did very well and were compared, at the time, to some of the best and the feedback was that they were better than IC'c costing twice or more as much. I mention this because when I do use an IC I use my own hyper pure silver (dead soft) triple braid 9 wire for connecting my portables to different sources. There is a difference in cables and the configuration and materials affect inductance and capacitance. I use a teflon tubing and achieve about 95 percent air as a dielectric. So many variables.


----------



## jamato8

I wanted to mention that the HD650's and the Predator go very well together. Listening to piano really brings it home. The notes seem to hold in the air with a nice rounded melodic quality and weight that is what I hear in live presentation.


----------



## jamato8

There were some shots somewhere but I will see what I can do. Now if I can just find a camera. :^)


----------



## chouman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_John, wouldn't you possibly post a pic of the innards of the Predator? Hope Ray won't ban you for this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

check ASR's thread with pics of predator and pico.


----------



## immtbiker

They were posted by Ray before the chassis was finished, and he had it naked at 3 meets:


----------



## IvanBarista

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wanted to mention that the HD650's and the Predator go very well together. Listening to piano really brings it home. The notes seem to hold in the air with a nice rounded melodic quality and weight that is what I hear in live presentation._

 

I am rediscovering my inner Audiophile with "the Predator". 
 I am thinking of Getting UM-2, which you have, How do you rate UM-2, as compared to the HD650? 
 I am using ER4s, love them. but I like something that is smaller so they don't sticks out. 
 I have also a UE SF5pro. I find them too bass Bloomy /lack of bass definition. Great for Pop. Jazz Vocal is all over the Place. is the UM-2 Like that?


----------



## jamato8

Some people like the UM2's for their midrange and ok bass but they lack highs and I don't like them. I find them unexciting and uninvolving. I think there are better choices. I even like my 20 dollar OVC ear buds much better.


----------



## grawk

Perhaps you're using the wrong tips with your UM2s? I will admit to not having the most extended hearing on the planet, but I have no complaint with the highs on the UM2s.


----------



## fld777

Anyone here from the Predator output it instead to a headphone, goes into a power amp ? (use the predator as a pre-amp ?) thanks.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grawk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Perhaps you're using the wrong tips with your UM2s? I will admit to not having the most extended hearing on the planet, but I have no complaint with the highs on the UM2s._

 

I have tried everything. I liked them at first but just don't care for them any longer. They are clean on the inside with no evidence of any ear wax. I will try them again with my modified tritips. I know some people like them and that is great but it is no love with me. I have seldom read that they have nice highs but like I said I will try a the modded tris again as I would be very happy if they did provide some modicum of high end sound.


----------



## webbie64

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have tried everything. I liked them at first but just don't care for them any longer. They are clean on the inside with no evidence of any ear wax. I will try them again with my modified tritips. I know some people like them and that is great but it is no love with me. I have seldom read that they have nice highs but like I said I will try a the modded tris again as I would be very happy if they did provide some modicum of high end sound._

 

To me they definitely have recessed highs and, yes, the modded triflanges were the best for revealing the greatest level of highs.


----------



## Jalo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *The Monkey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone, thus far, compared a burned-in Predator with a brand new one? Forgive me if this has been asked already._

 

Just for clarification, I want to make sure that all these talks about the burning-in of a predator refer to the amp section of the Predator provided only the Amp section is used, right? So will I have to burn in the DAC section separately? and for how long? Another 650 hours? Sounds like Ray indicates that the DAC and Amp sections are separate and isolated when the Amp section is used alone. So I've been burning in my Predator through an Ipod w/ Ipod dock means that I will have to burn in the DAC also. Please share your experience. Thanks.


----------



## jamato8

Mainly what needs all the time, because of the low current used, is the large capacitor, large for this size amp anyway. So if you run the amp you are using that large cap and forming/burning-in that thing. The dac needs a little time but not very long, imo, so I wouldn't worry much about the amp section. If you use the dac section you are also using the amp section and there is no way around this so I just run a signal through the dac/amp but doing just the amp section should be just fine.


----------



## fld777

What USB to USB cables are you guys using from the laptap to the predator ?
 Anyone here feels, that laptap as source is better than Ipod as source ? assuming i-tunes are used.
 Thanks


----------



## jamato8

You won't get usb out of the iPod so you have to use the internal dac of the iPod and run the line out to the amp section of the Predator. I haven't tried my iPod so someone else will have to chime in but having heard my iPod in the past with the line out compared to my Monica II would leave doubt that it would be near as good as the Predator dac. 


 750 hours. The Predator has developed into a very solid performer. The bass is extremely well integrated. The sound field is very transparent and the separation of voices and instruments within space is convincing in both the front to back and side to side perspective. There is a body to sound from where it emanates that occupies space. I am finding that the amp and amp/dac section both involve me in the sound and provide a natural and enjoyable layered sound. 

 Listening to The Eagles, "Hell Freezes Over", not a great recording but some great music, the cut "in the city", the bass feels like I have speakers in the room. Yep, booaum with quality not boom, boom, but tonal bass. (HD650's)

 As an interesting side note I have been using my Tekkeon battery pack with the Predator. It puts out anything from 5 volts to 18. Of course I am using it at 5 volts, which would allow for a very long run time. It has a continuous current capability of 3 amps. With this power supply hooked up to the Predator I notice a little increase in dynamic contrast 3D quality. I have noticed this with my Monica II dac as well. The Tekkeon provides a clean DC voltage with a low resistance and for table use this is a very nice setup.


----------



## jlingo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grawk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Perhaps you're using the wrong tips with your UM2s? I will admit to not having the most extended hearing on the planet, but I have no complaint with the highs on the UM2s._

 

oh no pun intended but did you go to audiologist to test your hearing? I find UM2 high is very rolled off and I don't have a perfect hearing. I test my hearing at least once a year.


----------



## jlingo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You won't get usb out of the iPod so you have to use the internal dac of the iPod and run the line out to the amp section of the Predator. I haven't tried my iPod so someone else will have to chime in but having heard my iPod in the past with the line out compared to my Monica II would leave doubt that it would be near as good as the Predator dac. 


 750 hours. The Predator has developed into a very solid performer. The bass is extremely well integrated. The sound field is very transparent and the separation of voices and instruments within space is convincing in both the front to back and side to side perspective. There is a body to sound from where it emanates that occupies space. I am finding that the amp and amp/dac section both involve me in the sound and provide a natural and enjoyable layered sound. 

 Listening to The Eagles, "Hell Freezes Over", not a great recording but some great music, the cut "in the city", the bass feels like I have speakers in the room. Yep, booaum with quality not boom, boom, but tonal bass. (HD650's)

 As an interesting side note I have been using my Tekkeon battery pack with the Predator. It puts out anything from 5 volts to 18. Of course I am using it at 5 volts, which would allow for a very long run time. It has a continuous current capability of 3 amps. With this power supply hooked up to the Predator I notice a little increase in dynamic contrast 3D quality. I have noticed this with my Monica II dac as well. The Tekkeon provides a clean DC voltage with a low resistance and for table use this is a very nice setup._

 

Uhm May I know how this compares to Xin Reference now?

 I would be very interested for curiosity.

 Thanks,


----------



## Jaw007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You won't get usb out of the iPod so you have to use the internal dac of the iPod and run the line out to the amp section of the Predator. I haven't tried my iPod so someone else will have to chime in but having heard my iPod in the past with the line out compared to my Monica II would leave doubt that it would be near as good as the Predator dac. 


 750 hours. The Predator has developed into a very solid performer. The bass is extremely well integrated. The sound field is very transparent and the separation of voices and instruments within space is convincing in both the front to back and side to side perspective. There is a body to sound from where it emanates that occupies space. I am finding that the amp and amp/dac section both involve me in the sound and provide a natural and enjoyable layered sound. 

 Listening to The Eagles, "Hell Freezes Over", not a great recording but some great music, the cut "in the city", the bass feels like I have speakers in the room. Yep, booaum with quality not boom, boom, but tonal bass. (HD650's)

 As an interesting side note I have been using my Tekkeon battery pack with the Predator. It puts out anything from 5 volts to 18. Of course I am using it at 5 volts, which would allow for a very long run time. It has a continuous current capability of 3 amps. With this power supply hooked up to the Predator I notice a little increase in dynamic contrast 3D quality. I have noticed this with my Monica II dac as well. The Tekkeon provides a clean DC voltage with a low resistance and for table use this is a very nice setup._

 

Do you have a link for the Tekkeon battery pack,also what cord do you use to hook it to the amp?Thanks in advance.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jlingo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Uhm May I know how this compares to Xin Reference now?

 I would be very interested for curiosity.

 Thanks,_

 

I have the latest board for the Reference but with a 12,000uf cap. The standard now is the 22,000uf cap for the Reference. I have the correct 22,000uf cap for the Reference but I have to change out the caps and then (gag) let the 22,000 form. If I give my opinion with the wrong cap then what is the point, since Xin believes the 22,000uf is the best and that is what the Reference is not made with. So. . . I will change caps let it burn-in for a while but since I have used the 22,000uf cap it should form quicker, I hope.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jaw007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you have a link for the Tekkeon battery pack,also what cord do you use to hook it to the amp?Thanks in advance._

 


Tekkeon MP3450 myPower All Plus Universal Charger - eBay (item 280168390788 end time Jan-28-08 11:01:19 PST)

 This who I have purchased from. He has the best price, ships fast and has good customer service. I use two of these in parallel. Tekkeon has a fitting that puts two batteries together so of course the battery life is doubled and I get the best results this way. I love the battery setup because I can recharge the unit in my car or anywhere else and I can use it with my Mac or anything else because it comes with many tips and they have others for just about every application.


----------



## thread

So it appears that to use this unit with the Predator is to take the supplied power adapter out of the equation...

 Ray is pretty clear in saying that any other adapter could be very bad for the unit as it has the potential to overcharge the unit and shorten/kill the lifetime of the battery.

 Or am I wrong and a perfectly matched charging tip is just the same as the supplied charger?


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tekkeon MP3450 myPower All Plus Universal Charger - eBay (item 280168390788 end time Jan-28-08 11:01:19 PST)

 This who I have purchased from. He has the best price, ships fast and has good customer service. I use two of these in parallel. Tekkeon has a fitting that puts two batteries together so of course the battery life is doubled and I get the best results this way. I love the battery setup because I can recharge the unit in my car or anywhere else and I can use it with my Mac or anything else because it comes with many tips and they have others for just about every application._


----------



## jamato8

I don't see how, if the adapter tip is correct, which this one is and the voltage is correct, which it is but I will have to ask Ray for clarification. The adapter supplied is very good. It is quiet and works great. Wall warts have come eons from where they used to be and switching supplies have jumped in performance by a tremendous amount to what they used to be.


----------



## immtbiker

Even if you have the right tip, you'd have to match the mA output of the charger and time to charge.

 Sorry if I missed this (handling multiple member problems tonight) but why aren't you using the supplied charger in the first place?


----------



## Duggeh

750 hours of burn in?

 Even the K701 wasn't rated at that level by its most vocal burn in supporters for noticeable changes. I have to pull a big ¬ _¬ face on your commentary on this. Until such time as a blind test between a 750 hour predator and a new one is done anyway.


----------



## akwok

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*750 hours.* The Predator has developed into a very solid performer. The bass is extremely well integrated. The sound field is very transparent and the separation of voices and instruments within space is convincing in both the front to back and side to side perspective. There is a body to sound from where it emanates that occupies space. I am finding that the amp and amp/dac section both involve me in the sound and provide a natural and enjoyable layered sound. _

 

Hi Patrick!


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Duggeh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_750 hours of burn in?

 Even the K701 wasn't rated at that level by its most vocal burn in supporters for noticeable changes. I have to pull a big ¬ _¬ face on your commentary on this. Until such time as a blind test between a 750 hour predator and a new one is done anyway._

 

Wait, you are telling me I can't put down how many hours are on the Predator now? I wasn't saying that at 750 hours there is suddenly a change, I was stating what the sound was like and mentioned the hours of time on the unit so people would know how many hours of use there was and nothing more. Read into it what ever you want but the way your posts reads Is Not what I was saying.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Even if you have the right tip, you'd have to match the mA output of the charger and time to charge.

 Sorry if I missed this (handling multiple member problems tonight) but why aren't you using the supplied charger in the first place?_

 

During the charging of the battery there will be a certain amount of draw depending upon the charging circuit and what it is set up for. Using a charger that puts out less than needed will require a longer time to charge but one that puts out more than needed will work fine. 

 ****I would suggest that anyone use just the charger supplied with the Predator so that you don't damage the unit by using a wrong tip or wrong DC orientation. If you use a higher voltage with the unit damage will be done and with a Li-ion battery you don't not want to overcharge it or it can explode.**** 

 Why am I using a battery? Because I was seeing what the sound would be like with a pure DC source with plenty of reserve.


----------



## Varma

Has anyone tried Predator with RS1, D5000 or K701? How do they sound?


----------



## kpeezy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wait, you are telling me I can't put down how many hours are on the Predator now? I wasn't saying that at 750 hours there is suddenly a change, I was stating what the sound was like and mentioned the hours of time on the unit so people would know how many hours of use there was and nothing more. Read into it what ever you want but the way your posts reads Is Not what I was saying._

 

Huh? I stopped following this thread a long time ago (553 hours) so I'm clueless, but did you say there was change ~750 hours? If you did, then it seems like that is what Duggeh is talking about. If not, it seems pretty worthless to let everyone know "Hey, 750 hours on the Pred GUISE!"


----------



## OptionTrader

Rest assured that the Predator does not need 750 hours to sound its best.


----------



## grawk

You may want to be careful powering the predator with anything other that the supplied charger. My understanding is the charging circuit is IN THE CHARGER, not in the amp, so you're risking frying the battery.


----------



## Varma

I am new to portable headphone amplifiers so I don't have much experience about them. If I want to connect an iPod or CD/DVD Player to the predator how do I connect it since the amplifier doesn't have regular audio inputs.


----------



## grawk

The amplifier has a mini input for analog.


----------



## Varma

By mini input ports do you mean 1/8 or 1/4.


----------



## n_maher

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Varma* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_By mini input ports do you mean 1/8 or 1/4._

 

Mini inputs would = 1/8".


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grawk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You may want to be careful powering the predator with anything other that the supplied charger. My understanding is the charging circuit is IN THE CHARGER, not in the amp, so you're risking frying the battery._

 

The charging circuit is in the Predator not the charger.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kpeezy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Huh? I stopped following this thread a long time ago (553 hours) so I'm clueless, but did you say there was change ~750 hours? If you did, then it seems like that is what Duggeh is talking about. If not, it seems pretty worthless to let everyone know "Hey, 750 hours on the Pred GUISE!"_

 

Why? The name of the review is "in stages" and some people have emailed me and asked if I could keep it in stages like a log. How do you keep something stages of a review if you don't identify the time period you are talking about? I can't see that is should be a bother to anyone and besides that is how I have been doing it all along and will continue to do it.


----------



## kpeezy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why? The name of the review is "in stages" and some people have emailed me and asked if I could keep it in stages like a log. How do you keep something stages of a review if you don't identify the time period you are talking about? I can't see that is should be a bother to anyone and besides that is how I have been doing it all along and will continue to do it._

 

I don't think his problem was the format of the review. The funny look is based on the fact that you still claim to hear sonic changes after 750 hours of use. He didn't say you were lying, just that it's quite a claim. There was never a problem with the format of the review.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kpeezy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't think his problem was the format of the review. The funny look is based on the fact that you still claim to hear sonic changes after 750 hours of use. He didn't say you were lying, just that it's quite a claim. There was never a problem with the format of the review._

 

Let me say this again. I did not claim to hear any sonic changes, I put down how many hours were on the unit and what I was hearing. No place did I say that now this has changed and I now hear a difference that needs 750 hours of burn-in. I said this in another way above and in my post that is referred to, I state what I am hearing from the Predator and nothing more.


----------



## kpeezy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Let me say this again. I did not claim to hear any sonic changes, I put down how many hours were on the unit and what I was hearing. No place did I say that now this has changed and I now hear a difference that needs 750 hours of burn-in. I said this in another way above and in my post that is referred to, I state what I am hearing from the Predator and nothing more._

 

Well, is this review going to continue until your demise? If you're not hearing changes, why keep posting?


----------



## jamato8

I like to elaborate on what I am hearing as I do with other amps. If it bothers you don't read my posts. It may not be changes that I hear but other nuances that I notice. I get emails from people asking me questions all the time and I find it easier to post what I hear as time goes by. That is why I state that the first page is updated. If I kick tomorrow then that will be it, who knows. :^)


----------



## Jaw007

I'm glad jamato8 posts for us who like his reviews,I feel he is a fine person doing us a service especially us new to amps&headphones!
 jamato8 keep up the good work,I myself have learned a great deal from your posts.Thanks


----------



## mitchb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Varma* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone tried Predator with RS1, D5000 or K701? How do they sound?_

 

I have tried the 701's on my predator and was truly impressed with the ease they were driven. The sound is full sounding like the 701's were being driven by a large home amp. I posted on another post a few days ago that the sound of the 701's with my Predator sounded richer sounding than with my HR-2. This is a big claim and could have been a result of my mood at the time but I was impressed this little Predator could make the 701's sound as rich as it did. True story.


----------



## jamato8

I am finding that what I am hearing with voice and instruments (when well recorded) is a sound the comes from the source in a "sculpted" manner. There is form to the sound with a feeling of presence, texture but not static. The imaging is concrete but also takes on life-like quality that belies words and is something that is better experienced but with words I am trying to convey. The Predator is nimble, moves with and not against the musical flow.


----------



## melomaniac

as a very happy tomahawk-user, I still kept my total bithead around, if only because every so often I need the USB DAC or a second amp for a second rig. now that I read about the predator, I wonder if it would replace both the bithead and the tomahawk? how would you say the predator relates to the tomahawk: more similar or more different in their sound and use? anyone?


----------



## PouncePony

They are definitely cut from the same cloth. I have about 120hrs on my Predator. The sound signature to me is pretty much the same. I currently find the Predator a little punchier with slightly more forward mids than my Tomahawk (which has 800 or so hours on it). I'll see where the Predator settles with more use.

 -Pony


----------



## 3x331m

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *melomaniac* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_as a very happy tomahawk-user, I still kept my total bithead around, if only because every so often I need the USB DAC or a second amp for a second rig. now that I read about the predator, I wonder if it would replace both the bithead and the tomahawk? how would you say the predator relates to the tomahawk: more similar or more different in their sound and use? anyone?_

 

I still have the Bithead, but I sold the Total Bithead, Tomahawk, and the Hornet. Predator is a step up from all of the previous amps. Predator has better sound stage, more tubie (Liquidity), lower noise floor. Whatever I hooked into the Predator sounds better in comparison to the above mentioned amps.

 BTW, I don't compare DACs, because I only see systems. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Upgrade to the Predator was my right choice, and I'm glad that I did it.


----------



## jamato8

Well I have over 900 hours on the Predator now. Sounding fine, sounding good. The human voice, both female and male come across very natural. I really like the sound of piano with the Predator. There is a certain rightness to it, a lingering note with ample impact but yet a delicacy.


----------



## jlingo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I have over 900 hours on the Predator now. Sounding fine, sounding good. The human voice, both female and male come across very natural. I really like the sound of piano with the Predator. There is a certain rightness to it, a lingering note with ample impact but yet a delicacy._

 

OH that's nice, I really hope you may get a hand of Pico so you could compare. I really would love to hear from your opinion. 

 How is Xin Reference compared to predator?


----------



## jamato8

What I can say for now is that they are different. The Predator is very visceral and the Reference throws a huge space.

 Any images of newly received Predators??


----------



## msfarley

I just got a Predator with black face/silver body. What a gorgeous little thing. It sounds great through a line out on my ipod touch but when i hooked up the USB for the first time last night and listened to apple lossless through my grado sr-225s.... WHOA!!! Is it just me or does that sound better than the line out on my ipod touch? i synced up the same tracks and then flipped the input switch to compare. The usb somehow sounded...smoother somehow.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *msfarley* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got a Predator with black face/silver body. What a gorgeous little thing. It sounds great through a line out on my ipod touch but when i hooked up the USB for the first time last night and listened to apple lossless through my grado sr-225s.... WHOA!!! Is it just me or does that sound better than the line out on my ipod touch? i synced up the same tracks and then flipped the input switch to compare. The usb somehow sounded...smoother somehow._

 

You are using the dac in the Predator when coming off of the computer and the dac in the iPod when using the line out. There will be a big difference there. If you think its good now, wait. . . 

 The Predator ages like fine wine, it gets better and better. . amazing.


----------



## Dash

Is there any indication of what chip has been utilized in the DAC section of the Predator?


----------



## jamato8

I am not sure. I haven't even look at the board all that much, which is unusual for me but I have been listening more than looking. You might want to email Ray.


----------



## grawk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am not sure. I haven't even look at the board all that much, which is unusual for me but I have been listening more than looking. You might want to email Ray._

 

Ray won't say, but informed speculation suggests it's a PCM2704.


----------



## Romanee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grawk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ray won't say, but informed speculation suggests it's a PCM2704._

 

Can't wait to hear a production Predator.

 The only comment I can make is that I unreservedly preferred the sound via the Predator's DAC over the line out from Ray's Meridian G08 -- which I've always felt is a superb player. The big reservation is that I was listening to Ray's prototype. Nevertheless...


----------



## johnsonad

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Romanee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can't wait to hear a production Predator.

 The only comment I can make is that I unreservedly preferred the sound via the Predator's DAC over the line out from Ray's Meridian G08 -- which I've always felt is a superb player. The big reservation is that I was listening to Ray's prototype. Nevertheless..._

 

G08? What happened to the 508.24?


----------



## tnmike1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Romanee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can't wait to hear a production Predator.

 The only comment I can make is that I unreservedly preferred the sound via the Predator's DAC over the line out from Ray's Meridian G08 -- which I've always felt is a superb player. The big reservation is that I was listening to Ray's prototype. Nevertheless..._

 

Peter: perhaps you can answer this question: if I'm not interested in the DAC option, how does the Predator compare sonically with the Hornet??? Realize you didn't have a production unit, but also know you are a big Hornet/Tomahawk enthusiast, so just curious to know your reactions.


----------



## jamato8

From reading accounts of the time needed for the cap to form on the Hornet and TH, the cap on the Predator takes even longer to form but listen to Eagles, "Hell Freezes Over", or the Cheiftians, "The Long Black Veil", which makes the journey all the more worth while. The integration of the bass line on The Long Black Veil is excellent.


----------



## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnsonad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_G08? What happened to the 508.24?_

 

Aaron (feels weird saying that), he was using my G08 and I was using his 508.24 in my setup.


----------



## johnsonad

hahahaha, thanks ECA (East Coast Aaron)! When you have time, PM me your impressions between the two. WCA


----------



## jamato8

Listening with the HD650's I notice an interesting change. I was able to clip the amp, though beyond a listening level I could tolerate but now it is much harder to get to that level. It would seem the reserve of the amp, as the cap forms, has a noticeable increase and along with this the dynamics also mature and benefit from this. I hadn't used the 650's for a while, preferring the Ultrasone 750's as they don't disturb the person I am with but she is in the shower :^), and the 650's are full sounding, in a quality way. 

 I am using a 1 foot USB that I have found to work well. I also built my own USB of pure silver and it was sounding good but I broke the mini-B connector so I have to redo it.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

OMG!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Between 587 hours and 589 hours *my Predator's BASS just grew some HUGE cojones!* I don't recall it being like this at 5pm when I listened last - I just remember thinking, "Nice, this is pretty sweet sounding." and then I put the headphones down for a couple of hours.

 This sounds nothing like any of my other amps right now, and certainly nothing like my Tomahawk. There is a richness and smoothness and lack of grain, while sounding full and carrying some weight. 

 For a second opinion, I handed the HF-1 and then Edition 9 to my son and lied to him, "I got a new tube for my DarkVoice 336i I want you to hear", and he fully believed it was the best tube he has heard in the 336i so far. Then I showed him the cable was running to the Predator and not the 336i, and he was shocked that such sound could come from such a small package. 

 The fact that it is still changing at almost 600 hours bugs me, because I have only listened to it once every 24 hours, waiting for it to be done changing. My other amps were done anywhere between 200 and 400 hours. Sigh...


----------



## jamato8

Yeah, it is interesting. Well at over 1000 hours and . . . well, you will find out. 

 I love the sound of violin on the Predator. Very tube like, in a good way, such very full and beautiful mids with a good foundation of bass and clean highs that are grain free.


----------



## pfm3

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *addz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thanks jamato8, i only ask if their is indication if the predator is charging because when mine is charging (plugged into the mains) i do not see any blinking whatsoever, maybe its not even charging._

 

i hope those that can not see the thing blinking, and dont notice that it is not red,but amber have better ears than eyes; or it is a wasted effort! we are an obsessive and anal lot. & the predator sounds just beautiful!


----------



## TheMarchingMule

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pfm3* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i hope those that can not see the thing blinking, and dont notice that it is not red,but amber have better ears than eyes; or it is a wasted effort! we are an obsessive and anal lot. & the predator sounds just beautiful!_

 

...What??


----------



## grawk

Apparently the blinking when charging is complete is caused by the charging circuit shutting off briefly when the battery hits overvolt condition.


----------



## jamato8

The charger lightly blinks when I plug the Predator in and appears to stop blinking when charged but as I have stated before, the blinking is very light and sometimes hard to detect.


----------



## Romanee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tnmike1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Peter: perhaps you can answer this question: if I'm not interested in the DAC option, how does the Predator compare sonically with the Hornet??? Realize you didn't have a production unit, but also know you are a big Hornet/Tomahawk enthusiast, so just curious to know your reactions._

 

I hope to have loan of a production Predator very soon -- which I'm told is well-played. After reading the recent posts here, and recalling the surprisingly lengthy "burn-in" process of my Tomahawk, I'll try to find out how many hours it's had before reaching me.

 Also, a friend here has ordered a Pico (!) -- but it may be a while before he gets it, and of course will need its own maturation period before I might even get the chance to listen. Pity. I'd love to have had one to compare with the Predator.

 Can't complain, of course. It will be wonderful to have the Predator loan!

 Cheers,
 Peter

 P.S.: Reading this blog has been fun and informative. Thanks to *jamato*, et al -- and thanks Aaron for lending Ray your G08 (chuckle).


----------



## jamato8

I have over 1200 hours on the Predator now. It ages and does it well. There is a "mature" sound that comes across as in an amp design that has come of age. 

 The new Geagles album (geezer sorry) Eagles as with many albums comes across with a fluid snap to the music. It is hard to put into words but there is an illusive quality to the sound of the Predator. The amp develops as time passes. I have plenty of other amps to reference to so I know of what I speak. The Predator grabs a note but then releases it like you would a guitar string. Twang, clean, sounds like a note and sounds like . . . something very special.

 And what's with this volume? I can now push the HD650's harder than before. I could play them louder than I would want to ever listen to music, before I could hear clipping, but now they will go even louder.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The new Geagles album (geezer sorry) Eagles as with many albums comes across with a fluid snap to the music. It is hard to put into words but there is an illusive quality to the sound of the Predator. The amp develops as time passes. I have plenty of other amps to reference to so I know of what I speak. The Predator grabs a note but then releases it like you would a guitar string. Twang, clean, sounds like a note and sounds like . . . something very special._

 

So, what does this really mean, that you like the amp? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What I want to know is, do any of your other amps have (some, most or all of) these qualities?

 I have 618 hours on mine now. Are you telling me I'm only half-way burned-in?


----------



## mitchb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kpeezy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't think his problem was the format of the review. The funny look is based on the fact that you still claim to hear sonic changes after 750 hours of use. He didn't say you were lying, just that it's quite a claim. There was never a problem with the format of the review._

 

I in fact am still hearing improvements after 800 hours play. I'm a firm believer in burn in but I always thought typical burn in to be 300 hours or so. Some cables like Cardas Golden Cross can take up to and over 500 hours. I wouldn't believe it unless heard with my own ears but this amp is still improving with over 800 hours play now. It is getting weightier and fuller with more room to move. More headroom somehow. 
 I can now play this amp as loud as I require it and more without distortion or clipping. It took to around 700 hours before I started to notice this unusual long change in sound. After 800 hours now it is still further gaining a certain warmth or fullness that I have only heard on bigger amps. I would have given any component 500 or 600 hours max but the Predator is a different animal; in this respect. Fortunately the sound keeps getting better. I'm very pleased with all my RSA amps but this one has surprised me the most so far. Time will show me how my Apache changes but it sounds awesome straight from the box.
 Thanks Ray


----------



## Jaw007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have over 1200 hours on the Predator now. It ages and does it well. There is a "mature" sound that comes across as in an amp design that has come of age. 

 The new Geagles album (geezer sorry) Eagles as with many albums comes across with a fluid snap to the music. It is hard to put into words but there is an illusive quality to the sound of the Predator. The amp develops as time passes. I have plenty of other amps to reference to so I know of what I speak. The Predator grabs a note but then releases it like you would a guitar string. Twang, clean, sounds like a note and sounds like . . . something very special.

 And what's with this volume? I can now push the HD650's harder than before. I could play them louder than I would want to ever listen to music, before I could hear clipping, but now they will go even louder._

 

If the Predator hasn't stopped aging by now something would have to be wrong.That seems like a lot aging.WOW!


----------



## jamato8

Nothing wrong, it has been good sounding for a long time.

 Ray made an amp that ages as you do. LOL 

 hey Johnny, that was a good one. I mean some things just get better with time, right? Why not an amp that starts off good and just grows, and grows and . . . 

 And again, what's up with this volume thing? I have never had this happen. It wasn't any problem but the volume increase. I can only equate it to the cap developing and forming but taking a long time due to the very low current that pulses through it.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, what does this really mean, that you like the amp? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What I want to know is, do any of your other amps have (some, most or all of) these qualities?

 I have 618 hours on mine now. Are you telling me I'm only half-way burned-in? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Maybe burn-in is no longer relevant. Maybe, not to get off on a tangent, but maybe it is about the journey. Ok, I don't know how long it take. Maybe I am only half way there. 

 I have a couple of other very good amps but the qualities are different. When the Predator seems to settle, with no noticeable changes in reference to a couple of other amps I have, then I will be better able to give you an honest answer, as I hear it.


----------



## tnmike1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe burn-in is no longer relevant. Maybe, not to get off on a tangent, but maybe it is about the journey. Ok, I don't know how long it take. Maybe I am only half way there. 

 I have a couple of other very good amps but the qualities are different. When the Predator seems to settle, with no noticeable changes in reference to a couple of other amps I have, then I will be better able to give you an honest answer, as I hear it._

 

Burn-in times of this amp have me scared silly. I listen maybe three hours' daily. at that rate, it might be a year before this amp really matures. Do I want to wait that long???? Or do I buy a Hornet used/already broken in???


----------



## Dash

My Predator has stayed hooked up to PC since the day I got it. Every three days I just plug it up to the charger. Feeding it a diet of random AAC stuff.


----------



## jamato8

Just put the music on repeat and leave it plugged into the wall-wart when not listening for those 3 hours. No big deal besides it sounds good for a long time before where I am now with it so no big deal. Its all in the adventure.


----------



## fkclo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am using a 1 foot USB that I have found to work well. I also built my own USB of pure silver and it was sounding good but I broke the mini-B connector so I have to redo it._

 

John, I missed this thread and have enjoyed your journey with the Predator.

 I am glad that you are also going silver for the USB cable. I am no DIYer so I ordered one from Brad at Revelation Audio Labs, as I figured the USB cable may be the weakest link in my Mac>Pico audio path. Yes, it sound insane to have a cable costing half the price of the amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 F. Lo


----------



## vcoheda

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fkclo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am glad that you are also going silver for the USB cable. I am no DIYer so I ordered one from Brad at Revelation Audio Labs, as I figured the USB cable may be the weakness link in my Mac>Pico audio path. Yes, it sound insane to have a cable costing half the price of the amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

who said smart/good decisions always have to be rational.


----------



## fkclo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vcoheda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_who said smart/good decisions always have to be rational._

 

Well, good decisions for the hobby can be irrational for the wallet. The reverse can be true too. It is all about the war between the left and right brains. The more I am on this forum, the more I feel that my right brain has outgrown my left one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 F. Lo


----------



## jamato8

When I can I prefer to make my own stuff. IC's are one of them but I used to make IC's to sell and they got extremely good reviews so I was on the right track. Now for my own stuff it is just fun and much less expensive than paying an equivalent of 200 plus on IC's and related equipment. The same for my home preamp and dac needs. Well it makes it more interesting when you blow something up or fry some flesh from 720 volts. :^)


----------



## ingwe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tnmike1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Burn-in times of this amp have me scared silly. I listen maybe three hours' daily. at that rate, it might be a year before this amp really matures. Do I want to wait that long???? Or do I buy a Hornet used/already broken in???_

 

Just run it at night, while you're sleeping. (in a different room)

 Just enjoy the music for those three hours per day.


----------



## kpeezy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vcoheda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_who said smart/good decisions always have to be rational._

 

Kant.


----------



## tubaman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fkclo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_John, I missed this thread and have enjoyed your journey with the Predator.

 I am glad that you are also going silver for the USB cable. I am no DIYer so I ordered one from Brad at Revelation Audio Labs, as I figured the USB cable may be the weakest link in my Mac>Pico audio path. Yes, it sound insane to have a cable costing half the price of the amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 F. Lo_

 

And I thought my buying the Kimber was insane!


----------



## tubaman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You are using the dac in the Predator when coming off of the computer and the dac in the iPod when using the line out. There will be a big difference there. If you think its good now, wait. . . 

 The Predator ages like fine wine, it gets better and better. . amazing._

 

I suppose it explains the lifetime warranty.


----------



## jamato8

I just hooked up a USB 2 cable that is 28 gauge for the signal (standard) and 24 gauge for the DC but it also has ferrite filters at both ends. The sound, I would think the DC is cleaned up some for the dac section, is a little more detailed with a tad more decay from what I can tell so far. I will see how this plays out but I need to get my silver USB going again.


----------



## tristram

OMG... silver usb cables? Does it really make a difference? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 About Predator, I was privileged to briefly listen to one at Jaben. IMO, it is about the best portable amp I heard so far, and I felt its SQ is another level above Hornet. Did not try as DAC though, but that's not important. 

 I got to understand better some of what TS had mentioned in his running reviews of the amp. It sure is a fantastic sounding piece of art.I saw one with an interesting colour scheme of blue front and back plates with a gold body. Build, size and finish is great as ever. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well, seems like I better start scrimping and saving for one... and I sure hope to be able to try a Pico too. Darn this %#@$* money-sapping hobby.


----------



## Dash

I have about 150 hours on my Predator now. I spent last night with the Black Crowes in preparation for the new album. I am impressed with the Predator at just this state of the game. If the sound never evolved anymore, I would be more than satisfied. The sound is liquid through the DAC. My MusicHall 25.2 was not this smooth and detailed. Here is my thought at this point with the Predator regarding the previously mentioned long burn in time. At 150 hours I know that is the one of the better pieces of equipment I have owned. Just because it may not be fully matured does not mean there is not a good grasp on the overall nature of the Predator. The change so far has been nice and if it continues, GREAT! If not, Im very pleased. I think a fairly decent opinion may be formed about the Predator before 1000 hours, way before.

 Edit: All 150 hours have been with the DAC and on low gain.

 2 cents.


----------



## wkwlb

Has anyone here ever experienced hissing out of your predator? it does happen when i plug in my iem at high gain&max volume in DAC mode. And the hissing is even stronger if i turn it to amp mode. This should not happen according to what Ray had stated on his website. OR it means my predator is defective?


----------



## jamato8

Is your Predator hooked to the source? Frankly some hiss with IEM's at max volume and at high gain doesn't mean anything and has nothing to do with sound at that point.


----------



## wkwlb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is your Predator hooked to the source? Frankly some hiss with IEM's at max volume and at high gain doesn't mean anything and has nothing to do with sound at that point._

 

ya, i paired it with my iMac. I do know tat this hiss wouldnt affect listening at all and i love the sound out of it. juz a lil worried abt it as it's supposed to be totally quite isnt it?


----------



## jamato8

I get a little bit of hiss at max and max gain but it doesn't matter as it has no relevance to music. What do you get when you disconnect the Predator from the iMac and try this

 edit: the only time I can get any hiss is when the Predator is hooked up to my source, the USB of my PowerBook G. When not hooked up it has no hiss at max anything but again I wouldn't worry if it did.


----------



## OptionTrader

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wkwlb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone here ever experienced hissing out of your predator? it does happen when i plug in my iem at high gain&max volume in DAC mode. And the hissing is even stronger if i turn it to amp mode. This should not happen according to what Ray had stated on his website. OR it means my predator is defective?_

 

If you plug an IEM into the Predator at _max gain_ and _max volume_ and then push a signal through it, any hiss (which btw is very faint on my Predator with ~500 hrs) would be the very least of your problems. You will never hear another thing again. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 As I have posted before, this amp is dead quiet at normal and even well beyond normal settings. It seems even that as the hours stack up, what little hiss the unit has is diminishing. If I disconnect all inputs, there is no hiss at all.


----------



## Dash

The Predator comes with a lifetime warranty and RSA has excellent customer service. If it concerned me, I would it send it in and have it checked out. A little peace of mind can go along ways.


----------



## wkwlb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I get a little bit of hiss at max and max gain but it doesn't matter as it has no relevance to music. What do you get when you disconnect the Predator from the iMac and try this

 edit: the only time I can get any hiss is when the Predator is hooked up to my source, the USB of my PowerBook G. When not hooked up it has no hiss at max anything but again I wouldn't worry if it did._

 

guess i shouldnt be worried either, anyway i'll try to further burn it in and see what will happen~
 BTW, still nobody posting any photos? i do wanna c some other color schemes!


----------



## jamato8

So where are the images? Nobody got a camera? :^)

 Listening to Jackson Browne "Solo acoustical" and it is great. Beautiful depth to the audience with a taught and harmonically right sound to the guitar. I find that reproducing that "twang" with a depth that gives a feeling the the complexity to a plucked string not always that easy but the Predator does a great job. Ah, such a nice feeling to the acoustic field in this recording. Great fun.


----------



## fld777

Anyone here have experience or is using Predator with the Grado RS1 ? is it warm enough that it can give the Grado RS1s some warmth to make it not too sharp or bright sounding.

 Thanks for inputs.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I did a review of RS-2 and HF-1 with APureSound V3 cable, vs HP-1000 and I used the Predator. I even commented on the Grado Synergy before I went to bed that night. It wasn't until the next day that the question came up as to whether other amps had better synergy, and a few did. *But, the fact that the headphones all sounded so good during the review, WITH the Predator, is testament to how good Predator is with Grado.* REVIEW: Grado HF-1 and RS-2 both re-cabled with APureSound v3 cable, with stock HP-2 sprinkled in for good measure...

 Predator works better with my high-end Grados than half my amps, only bettered by my modded iBasso D1 (AD797 opamps, with AD8397 as buffers = lots of current) and my DarkVoice 336i with the proper tubes (Hytron 5692 brownbase in front, Tung Sol 5998 in rear). The Headstage Lyrix with AD8397 opamp and the older Meier Headamp-1 were just slightly ahead of Predator.

 At low to normal volumes any of the amps suffice, the difference being the above amps could drive the Grados loudly without getting thin sounding, although the Predator was just starting to lose steam in the bass at very high volumes vs the others. That was at volume levels that I do not typically find myself listening at, and would certainly be over 100db and harmful for more than 10-30 minutes.


----------



## fld777

qustions guys; If breaking in the Predator using FM Station via 2 rca to lineout, does one have to break in the USB section as well using computer ? meaning does these two inputs have to be broken in differently ?

 tks.


----------



## thread

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fld777* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_qustions guys; If breaking in the Predator using FM Station via 2 rca to lineout, does one have to break in the USB section as well using computer ? meaning does these two inputs have to be broken in differently ?

 tks._

 

Ray tells me that the DAC portion only takes about 150 hours.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fld777* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_qustions guys; If breaking in the Predator using FM Station via 2 rca to lineout, does one have to break in the USB section as well using computer ? meaning does these two inputs have to be broken in differently ?

 tks._

 

If you run from the USB to the output you have both in the circuit so you are burning-in both. I see what you mean though, because there is an input so you can use just the amp but that is just a trace that goes to the switch that eliminates the dac when you use the Predator as an amp only.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I have 988 hours on my Predator as of 11am today, and about 200 of those have been with the DAC. The biggest thing to burn in was that cap in the amp section.


----------



## jamato8

Make sure you mark your charger cord in some way so that you do not put over the 5 volts into your Predator by using the wrong charger.


----------



## wkwlb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Make sure you mark your charger cord in some way so that you do not put over the 5 volts into your Predator by using the wrong charger._

 

ya,indeed. I got 2 chagers with same look but different voltage. I always check the voltage and match it with wat was marked at the back of my predator.


----------



## Audio-Omega

Is there a waiting period for this amp ?


----------



## jamato8

Not that I have read of. I would email RSA.


----------



## jamato8

I would like to add that the Predator is doing very well with the Sennheiser HD650's. The bass is well controlled and there is a nice sense of depth as well as width to the listening environment.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I got my Predator back from Skylab, and boy did I miss that sucker!

 The only thing I have to PM Ray about is that the red velveteen bag is now coming apart at the seams. Skylab must have used the bag and amp as nunchakus.


----------



## fld777

anyone care to comment on how long does a single charge last on the predator.

 mine seem to have around 10 hours only out of a single charge (2 hours).

 how about others here ??


----------



## jamato8

I let mine run down a day or two ago because I like to totally cycle the battery from time to time and it ran for over 3 days. The actual hours I am not sure but it ran longer than the 56 or what ever is stated it will run. The run time will vary according to the phones being used. I was using the Ultrasone 750's.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fld777* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyone care to comment on how long does a single charge last on the predator.

 mine seem to have around 10 hours only out of a single charge (2 hours).

 how about others here ??_

 

With an overnight charge mine will run for more than 2 continuous days.


----------



## Manny Calavera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fld777* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyone care to comment on how long does a single charge last on the predator.

 mine seem to have around 10 hours only out of a single charge (2 hours).

 how about others here ??_

 



 Using my Beyerdynamic DT250-80'S (80 Ohm),and a gain setting of medium with volume @ 50% I just recently noticed I am at about 43.8 hours,and this thing is still going strong 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can only imagine what I'll get out of the battery in this thing,once I get my Q-Jays delivered.

 This is after charging and emptying the battery in it via burn in for 4 days straight before the first listen.By day three it needed a charge to go back to burn in land.

 It depends on the cans.Ray says 56~ hours,but some are getting more.Like me for instance.


----------



## Romanee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fld777* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyone care to comment on how long does a single charge last on the predator.

 mine seem to have around 10 hours only out of a single charge (2 hours).

 how about others here ??_

 

Contact Ray. Regardless of what phones you use, 10 hours per charge is abnormally short. Seems that something may be amiss with your amp.


----------



## Romanee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got my Predator back from Skylab, and boy did I miss that sucker!

 The only thing I have to PM Ray about is that the red velveteen bag is now coming apart at the seams. Skylab must have used the bag and amp as nunchakus. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hmmm. And you got it back so quickly, too. Perhaps he auditioned & reviewed it during a really energetic karate tournament? ~-))


----------



## jamato8

So what is everyone experiencing on the sound?


----------



## fld777

I expected more out of this unit but it has only been 250 hours or so. Compared to the old Project Headbox am using for the last month or so, I feel dat the headbox non portable sounds more powerful , more oomph than the Predator using the HD600s.
 I find Predator too warm also on the Rs1s. So far i find the SR125s a bit balanced w/ this amp. 
 I hope a few more weeks or break in will improve its sound.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fld777* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I expected more out of this unit but it has only been 250 hours or so. Compared to the old Project Headbox am using for the last month or so, I feel dat the headbox non portable sounds more powerful , more oomph than the Predator using the HD600s.
 I find Predator too warm also on the Rs1s. So far i find the SR125s a bit balanced w/ this amp. 
 I hope a few more weeks or break in will improve its sound._

 

I found the power to increase after many hours and the bass gained speed. I never found the Predator too warm, and I don't like amps that are too warm. What source are you using or is it the USB?


----------



## fld777

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I found the power to increase after many hours and the bass gained speed. I never found the Predator too warm, and I don't like amps that are too warm. What source are you using or is it the USB?_

 

thats good to know.
 I use both Ipod, Marantz CD player & computer thru usb. More or less they sound similar with the cd player having an edge.


----------



## msfarley

I love my RSA predator, but quick question. did the printing on the top of your predator start to wear off fairly quickly? from being in and out of my pocket i guess some of the letters started to wear off and i didn't like the way it looked so i took the rest of the logo off with an alcohol pad. it looks fine now, but i liked having the logo there.


----------



## thread

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *msfarley* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I love my RSA predator, but quick question. did the printing on the top of your predator start to wear off fairly quickly? from being in and out of my pocket i guess some of the letters started to wear off and i didn't like the way it looked so i took the rest of the logo off with an alcohol pad. it looks fine now, but i liked having the logo there._

 

That sucks bigtime.

 I find I can keep the Predator in best shape by using the included pouch when using it with the mp3 player. All the required controls remain available on the front side, and my mp3 player can't scratch it.


----------



## jamato8

I use a pouch all the time. I would contact Ray and I am sure he will correct the problem. He would want to know this anyway.


----------



## Jalo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fld777* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I expected more out of this unit but it has only been 250 hours or so. Compared to the old Project Headbox am using for the last month or so, I feel dat the headbox non portable sounds more powerful , more oomph than the Predator using the HD600s.
 I find Predator too warm also on the Rs1s. So far i find the SR125s a bit balanced w/ this amp. 
 I hope a few more weeks or break in will improve its sound._

 

I used the predator to drive my HD600 and GS 1000, I have to say the GS 1000 sounded extremely good whereas the hd600 does not sound as good. I think the hd600 is a harder hp to drive.


----------



## mitchb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jalo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I used the predator to drive my HD600 and GS 1000, I have to say the GS 1000 sounded extremely good whereas the hd600 does not sound as good. I think the hd600 is a harder hp to drive._

 


 The Predator should run the HD600 with ease and grace. No problem. Your Predator probably requires burn in hours but for a fact the Predator runs the 600's without a problem. The Predator was voiced with the 600's. In theory the 600's should be the best phones with the Predator. Hang in there.


----------



## Jalo

Thanks for the heads up. May be I put away my hd600 too soon before I gave it a thorough chance to shine. But the GS 1000 is so fun to listen to through the predator that it's hard to switch Just try the Bohemian Rhapsody and hear the sound coming in and out of your head, it's just pure fun.


----------



## mitchb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jalo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the heads up. May be I put away my hd600 too soon before I gave it a thorough chance to shine. But the GS 1000 is so fun to listen to through the predator that it's hard to switch Just try the Bohemian Rhapsody and hear the sound coming in and out of your head, it's just pure fun._

 

I know what you mean. I got a pair of GS-1000 2 days ago and I can't put them down! They just sound so very good!!


----------



## fld777

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jalo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I used the predator to drive my HD600 and GS 1000, I have to say the GS 1000 sounded extremely good whereas the hd600 does not sound as good. I think the hd600 is a harder hp to drive._

 

I have HD600 and Rs1. And Predator as well.
 I have about 400 hours in my Predator and i do admit that the RS1s are easier to drive as they sound better on the Predator than the HD600s.
 With the Predator on the HD600, they sound a bit slow and muffled. Hinting not enough power to drive them even at high level output.
 I hope a few more hundred hours will really open these amp up. I hope so.


----------



## Jalo

Just a quick question in regard to the proper way to select the gain setting on the Predator. For the best SQ, I understood that we should select the lowest possible gain and use the volume control to find the ideal sound level. In other words, if I select the "low gain" setting and turn the volume up close to max and still not get the satisfactory sound level, then I go to "med gain" and so on. Is that how everyone go about selecting the gain? Thanks for the feedback.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jalo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just a quick question in regard to the proper way to select the gain setting on the Predator. For the best SQ, I understood that we should select the lowest possible gain and use the volume control to find the ideal sound level. In other words, if I select the "low gain" setting and turn the volume up close to max and still not get the satisfactory sound level, then I go to "med gain" and so on. Is that how everyone go about selecting the gain? Thanks for the feedback._

 

yes


----------



## Romanee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fld777* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have HD600 and Rs1. And Predator as well.
 I have about 400 hours in my Predator and i do admit that the RS1s are easier to drive as they sound better on the Predator than the HD600s.
 With the Predator on the HD600, they sound a bit slow and muffled. Hinting not enough power to drive them even at high level output.
 I hope a few more hundred hours will really open these amp up. I hope so._

 

Increased play time will make a huge difference.

 I had HD600 w/Equinox cable at work today with the 1400+ hour Predator and it sounded fast and transparent with oodles of texture and inner detail, extended highs, layered imaging, etc. This unit is still evolving and at this point the deep/authoritative bass has become tighter/better defined but with less impact than it had at 1000 hours. 

 Except that my Hornet -- at this point in the Predator's development -- now has bigger bass and warmer lower mids, this Predator has serious "Wow" and "Ahhh" factors.

 More to come.....

 Another Predator loaner unit I had briefly, with about 400 hours on it, sounded by comparison a bit noisy and veiled, and accordingly less transparent and a bit fatiguing. Yours has lots of improvements to come.


----------



## jamato8

Yes, the Predator takes an interesting journey through changes. I know I have said this a few times but it reminds me of a fine wine. The bass, once really matured, is some of the best I have heard.


----------



## fld777

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Romanee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Increased play time will make a huge difference.

 I had HD600 w/Equinox cable at work today with the 1400+ hour Predator and it sounded fast and transparent with oodles of texture and inner detail, extended highs, layered imaging, etc. This unit is still evolving and at this point the deep/authoritative bass has become tighter/better defined but with less impact than it had at 1000 hours. 

 Except that my Hornet -- at this point in the Predator's development -- now has bigger bass and warmer lower mids, this Predator has serious "Wow" and "Ahhh" factors.

 More to come.....

 Another Predator loaner unit I had briefly, with about 400 hours on it, sounded by comparison a bit noisy and veiled, and accordingly less transparent and a bit fatiguing. Yours has lots of improvements to come._

 


 When you guys are breaking this in, whats the normal levels you put the unit in ? Does lower vol levels does in any way aid break in compared to cranking them real high ?


----------



## jamato8

I use higher levels so more current is drawn through the cap, which helps it form faster. The amp uses very little in mA's so the higher the volume the more current required.


----------



## fld777

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I use higher levels so more current is drawn through the cap, which helps it form faster. The amp uses very little in mA's so the higher the volume the more current required._

 

Thanks. So i guess, it would be better if i use lower gain and crank vol higher to break them in ?
 I cant wait to reach a few hundred hours here.
 While the sound is ok but i think more can still be squeezed out of this amp.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fld777* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks. So i guess, it would be better if i use lower gain and crank vol higher to break them in ?
 I cant wait to reach a few hundred hours here.
 While the sound is ok but i think more can still be squeezed out of this amp._

 

No, a lower gain will put out less from the amp. You don't want to ruin your headphones but a higher gain allows you to get closer to maxxing out the amp, which uses the most current.


----------



## trafox10

Hi people, I am using a tomahawk with Triplefi 10 pro. Do you think it's worth it to upgrade to the Predator? Is the difference going to be great on my IEMs? Currently I'm not using any headphones as i like to bring my music wherever I go.


----------



## fld777

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *trafox10* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi people, I am using a tomahawk with Triplefi 10 pro. Do you think it's worth it to upgrade to the Predator? Is the difference going to be great on my IEMs? Currently I'm not using any headphones as i like to bring my music wherever I go._

 

If I have a Tomahawk with the Triple Fi, i probably wouldnt upgrade to the Predator unless you really need the USB function.
 If you are buying a portable amp first time, then the Predator would be my choice if USB is really needed, otherwise Hrnet or Tomahawk would be fine.


----------



## trafox10

hmmmmmmm since i'm using IEMs, the difference between this 3 amps should be more or less the same?


----------



## TheMarchingMule

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *trafox10* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hmmmmmmm since i'm using IEMs, the difference between this 3 amps should be more or less the same?_

 

...you mean this, Hornet, and Tomahawk?


----------



## trafox10

yupz...toma, hornet and predator.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I don't feel the Tomahawk is up to the same level of sound quality as the Predator. So for me it's an obvious choice regardless of the DAC.


----------



## Glenn Cain

More pictorial juice to go


----------



## jamato8

Very nice. I have never been crazy about silver but what Ray uses isn't really silver it is more white and looks very different, interesting and I think appealing.


----------



## mitchb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glenn Cain* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_




 More pictorial juice to go_

 

I love this picture. I am even more enjoying my amp which is identical to this picture. Now with even more hours it's finally levelling out and it has reached the quality of sound of my bigger desk top or two chasis external power supply RSA amps. This little Predator still has me in awe and I have a couple of bigger really nice RSA amps to compare it to. Yes, this little amp has the sound signature of the bigger amps many more times it's price. This little amp has me just as awestruck as the Apache all be the Apache and the Predator two very different sized amps still have very much common a sound signature. I own both and have compared them side to side and can say this as a matter of fact. I have undecided feelings when a particular piece can actually sound better on the Predator. This has happened on a few occasions although I have to say both amps have their place . The Apache is a work of art, the Predator is a scientific wonder. The HR-2 is just down right good with everything I through at it. I love my RSA amps and intend to enjoy them for many years. Keep on rocking Ray!!!!


----------



## Romanee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mitchb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I love this picture. I am even more enjoying my amp which is identical to this picture. Now with even more hours it's finally levelling out and it has reached the quality of sound of my bigger desk top or two chasis external power supply RSA amps. This little Predator still has me in awe and I have a couple of bigger really nice RSA amps to compare it to. Yes, this little amp has the sound signature of the bigger amps many more times it's price. This little amp has me just as awestruck as the Apache all be the Apache and the Predator two very different sized amps still have very much common a sound signature. I own both and have compared them side to side and can say this as a matter of fact. I have undecided feelings when a particular piece can actually sound better on the Predator. This has happened on a few occasions although I have to say both amps have their place . The Apache is a work of art, the Predator is a scientific wonder. The HR-2 is just down right good with everything I through at it. I love my RSA amps and intend to enjoy them for many years. Keep on rocking Ray!!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

My Goodness! That is a brief, to the point and glowing review indeed. 

 About how many hours do you have on your Predator so far?

 And congrats on a remarkable RSA collection -- current and imminent -- from diminutive to powerhouse.


----------



## trafox10

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't feel the Tomahawk is up to the same level of sound quality as the Predator. So for me it's an obvious choice regardless of the DAC._

 

Yup...I know the difference in sound quality is going to be great on headphones. But What if I'm planning to use IEMs on the predator? Any great difference in Sound quality to justify the price difference? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for all the feedback


----------



## mitchb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Romanee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Goodness! That is a brief, to the point and glowing review indeed. 

 About how many hours do you have on your Predator so far?

 And congrats on a remarkable RSA collection -- current and imminent -- from diminutive to powerhouse._

 

I have approximately 1565 hours when I do the math. I have it on 24/7 and recharge it every 2 1/2 to 3 days which is pretty good when considering it's pushing a relatively heavy load night and day non stop. When the battery get's tired I find I can tell just by the apparent lack of low bottom end at which point I recharge the amp for 2 or 3 hours while it's still playing and it sounds immediately back to it's full lustre as soon as the adaptor makes contact with the amp. There is no electrical reason a Predator should ever not sound it's best. As long as your paying attention , this little wonder should amaze at a continuouos enjoyable level of sound quality. I still get excited about it. That says a lot from an audiophile who bores quickly with new toys. This little amp is not a toy. It is a state of the art power amplifier due the same respect as any high end level of audio gear.


----------



## mrdeadfolx

Just bought a Predator last night. Will post pics and impressions in the days to come.


----------



## Glenn Cain

its my 3rd day of owning the predator and its already paying back. I am getting that deep growl bass floating just behind my brain while the main voice is in front of my eyes. great sound, never heard it ever before, such a bass. not on my tf10 alone, not, on the go vibe petite, only on the predator IN MY LIFE so far. 

 gee now i am no longer a virgin.


----------



## IvanBarista

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glenn Cain* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_its my 3rd day of owning the predator and its already paying back. I am getting that deep growl bass floating just behind my brain while the main voice is in front of my eyes. great sound, never heard it ever before, such a bass. not on my tf10 alone, not, on the go vibe petite, only on the predator IN MY LIFE so far. 

 gee now i am no longer a virgin._

 

Hey, Welcome to the Club. it is eye opening how a small carry it anywhere headphone amp can achieve sound quality this Good. 
 To me the Bad news is it will be hard to listen to anything else.


----------



## thread

Oh hey, here are some pics I took a while ago, but never posted anywhere. I'm absolutely adoring my amp.


----------



## Glenn Cain

ooo hi mr PR074!!
 Mines is PR 169!! very lovely number, especially the 69 part.

 So far these serials are in Singapore:
 PR169
 PR177
 PR153
 PR157

 I welcome all to visit our feed here

 Perhaps there should a thread in head fi with a serial listing of predator?


----------



## jamato8

I don't know why but that black is really nice. I mean I like black but I have a number, well most all, that are black but that just looks really special. Great stuff!

 More impressions??


----------



## trafox10

This amp's bass is very engaging and punchy....much "bigger" than the tomahawk. It also produces a more fuller bodied sound than my previous amps and though the bass is strong, treble still can be clearly heard. Soundstage is also wide.
 You wont feel much fatigue after long listening as the highs are not very "piercing".. really enjoy the experience so far


----------



## mrdeadfolx

Only 2 more days till mines delivered! I feel like a kid on christmas who knows hes getting exactly what he asked for


----------



## 3x331m

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrdeadfolx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Only 2 more days till mines delivered! I feel like a kid on christmas who knows hes getting exactly what he asked for 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You're going to be a very happy kid.


----------



## mitchb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrdeadfolx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Only 2 more days till mines delivered! I feel like a kid on christmas who knows hes getting exactly what he asked for 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 I actually got mine on Christmas!!I spend far too much time at the computer now neglecting my dedicated music room.


----------



## fdhfdy

si xin reference good at headphones?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fdhfdy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_si xin reference good at headphones?_

 

Sure it is fine with headphones but this thread is about the RSA Predator.


----------



## jamaya15

I recently bought this amp off of a fellow headfier. I am using shure e-500s and let me just say WOW.

 I had been using the e-500s unamped simply because I did not have the money for a portable amp. The moment I plugged in the amp I was shocked. The soundstage widened and everything in general seemed cleaner and more controlled. The bass was better and cleaner as well. Doing comparisons between unamped and using the predator really puts things into perspective for me. 

 Its not exactly my home setup but its excellent for when im not at home.

 Im on the waiting list for the pico so when I get it I can do a real comparison between portable amps.


----------



## jamato8

With the silent background of the Predator and the great bass I think it pairs well with IEM's. It is interesting because as good as the bass is, it is of a quality that is not overdone and never, to my ear, sounds unnatural.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamaya15* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I recently bought this amp off of a fellow headfier. I am using shure e-500s and let me just say WOW.

 I had been using the e-500s unamped simply because I did not have the money for a portable amp. The moment I plugged in the amp I was shocked. The soundstage widened and everything in general seemed cleaner and more controlled. The bass was better and cleaner as well. Doing comparisons between unamped and using the predator really puts things into perspective for me. 

 Its not exactly my home setup but its excellent for when im not at home.

 Im on the waiting list for the pico so when I get it I can do a real comparison between portable amps._

 

Here is a real comparison with the Predator and Pico: 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/min...-lyrix-306883/


----------



## fdhfdy

no pics?


----------



## iboey

Just a quick question, if i use the predator's DAC, is the sound quality as good as the amp itself? Since if i use the DAC, it will bypass the amp circuitry. 

 Should I hook laptop-->1xPredator USB---->Another predator Mini in--->UM2?

 Next question is how can i burn in both the dac and amp at the same time?


----------



## grawk

It doesn't bypass the amp, it bypasses the line in jack. It's using the line in jack that bypasses the dac.


----------



## jamato8

You can not bypass the dac section. You can use just the amp section but when using the USB you have to use the amplified section for the output.


----------



## iboey

Am i correct to say if i use the usb DAC of predator, its also using the amplifier section of predator? Just that it disables the mini jack input?


----------



## grawk

yes


----------



## iboey

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grawk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yes_

 

Phwee, thanx. what a relief to hear that. i was thinking of buying 2 predator. one for DAC + one for amplifer for laptop rig


----------



## jmmtn4aj

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iboey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Phwee, thanx. what a relief to hear that. i was thinking of buying 2 predator. one for DAC + one for amplifer for laptop rig 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The Predator doesn't have a line out though, so is it really recommended for use as a pure DAC?


----------



## Dash

I have had some positive results with the Predator as a makeshift DAC. I set to the lowest gain and the volume at about half, then use a mini to RCA to my Cambridge integraged. It sounds pretty damn good.


----------



## jamato8

There is no reason it shouldn't sound good. There is a lot more in the signal path and more pcb in a large dac. You just have a variable output dac.


----------



## TheMarchingMule

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jmmtn4aj* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Predator doesn't have a line out though, so is it really recommended for use as a pure DAC?_

 

Wait, what? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You just plug the USB cable between the computer and Predator, then listen through headphones that are plugged in from the Predator's headphone out jack.


----------



## grawk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheMarchingMule* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wait, what? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You just plug the USB cable between the computer and Predator, then listen through headphones that are plugged in from the Predator's headphone out jack._

 

The "as a dac" question suggests using it with another amp. Works quite well with the other small dac/amp at this price point, but I hadn't seen anyone recommend it for this one.


----------



## thread

Sure, I've used the Predator as a preamp, taking USB out of my laptop and feeding it directly into my Emotiva RPA-1 power amp for my speaker rig. It sounded surprisingly good.


----------



## jamato8

I still find it a pleasure to discover old music in new ways with the Predator. The Predator's organic nature defies the silicon nature of its internals.


----------



## Victor Chew

The three gain positions on my predator sounds different. Can anyone educate me on it?


----------



## grawk

The higher the gain, the louder the amp. So the lower you'll have to set the volume knob. The lower you set the volume knob, the more resistance you're going through, which can impact the sound. Plus, the lower the volume knob, the more likely you are to get channel imbalances.


----------



## jamato8

Yes, the less volume control the better. One thing about Rays volume pots though is that he checks each and every one for balance so in this case I doubt that there will be a problem but I agree often there can be.


----------



## jp11801

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, the less volume control the better. One thing about Rays volume pots though is that he checks each and every one for balance so in this case I doubt that there will be a problem but I agree often there can be._

 

I think you mean the more you can open it up the better as typically they are better at 12'oclock then at 8'oclock. I'd be curious to see how he checks them by ear or by a meter? Ray listens loud as hell I've put on a few headphones after him and he listens louder than a Who concert circa 1975.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I still find it a pleasure to discover old music in new ways with the Predator. The Predator's organic nature defies the silicon nature of its internals._

 

Kinda like a bable fish lives inside the Predator, and translates the music into alien, then it sings it out through the headphone jack as sweet music?


----------



## jp11801

I guess the bable fish didn't show up when I heard it, it's ok and performs its stated purpose taking music off a computer and amping it but clouds did not part, water did not turn into wine and cats did not spontaneously start playing with dogs. Let's face it folks a small portable amp can only do so much.


----------



## jamato8

Yeah, that is what I was thinking, babblefish, how did you know? Man, that is spooky. :^)

 So sorry you have not seen the light. But its ok, now you have something to look forward to. I once had a cat that played with dogs and the Predator wasn't even around. I wonder what they would do now?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jp11801* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think you mean the more you can open it up the better as typically they are better at 12'oclock then at 8'oclock. I'd be curious to see how he checks them by ear or by a meter? Ray listens loud as hell I've put on a few headphones after him and he listens louder than a Who concert circa 1975._

 

Yes, the less volume control the better, which is less volume or resistance in the signal path. I like to be around 2 or 1400.


----------



## jp11801

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, that is what I was thinking, babblefish, how did you know? Man, that is spooky. :^)

 So sorry you have not seen the light. But its ok, now you have something to look forward to. I once had a cat that played with dogs and the Predator wasn't even around. I wonder what they would do now?_

 

the term not seeing the light implies by its use that I am somehow missing something. I have listened to the predator and like I said it's ok, but the rampant hyperbole while fun does the community a disservice. As an example the predator does not outperform the HR2 (a nice ss amp btw) but you never hear this level of OTT verbosity for that amp and it clearly outperforms the predator and is average to above average in its class?


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamaya15* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I recently bought this amp off of a fellow headfier. I am using shure e-500s and let me just say WOW._

 

It's very tempting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Just thinking of upgrading my amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 p.s Are you a younger sister of Jamato8? LOL


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I find the Predator can play louder and cleaner (without clipping) in medium gain than in high gain. It also just sounds better in medium gain, like it's in better control over the drivers and in it's happy zone. Low gain is just as good, and I only use that for my IEM. I really have no use for high gain I suppose.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jp11801* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the term not seeing the light implies by its use that I am somehow missing something. I have listened to the predator and like I said it's ok, but the rampant hyperbole while fun does the community a disservice. As an example the predator does not outperform the HR2 (a nice ss amp btw) but you never hear this level of OTT verbosity for that amp and it clearly outperforms the predator and is average to above average in its class?_

 

I was kidding with you. I like to do that, sorry.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grawk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The higher the gain, the louder the amp. So the lower you'll have to set the volume knob. The lower you set the volume knob, the more resistance you're going through, which can impact the sound. Plus, the lower the volume knob, the more likely you are to get channel imbalances._

 

Hi grawk

 Would you want to go into some detail on how the sound is impacted... What differences do you hear between hi and low gain?

 I'm running in some new 701s with my GS-1 and Stello DA100 and it appears that I hear a difference between hi and low gain that *doesn't* appear to be volume driven. The hi gain seems to yield somewhat brighter highs and a crisper sharper bass. Not a big difference, but I seem to hear a difference with the 701s.... or is this a case of the same thing as the 16 bit Vs. 24 bit thing I stepped into once before? Shouldn't there really be no perceptible difference between the two settings?

 USG

 d-_-b

 edit to ask everyone, "What differences do you hear between hi and low gain?"


----------



## Victor Chew

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grawk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The higher the gain, the louder the amp. So the lower you'll have to set the volume knob. The lower you set the volume knob, the more resistance you're going through, which can impact the sound. Plus, the lower the volume knob, the more likely you are to get channel imbalances._

 

Thanks for your reply. I find that my predator sounds better at the high gain. You hit the nail on the head when you said that I will experience channel inbalances when the volume knob is set at lower end. When I use the low gain I do not get channel inbalances for the same volume but the detail seems to have gone missing. Is there anything wrong with my predator? Why is the sound of all three gains different?


----------



## NeObliviscaris

Is it just mine, or do other people's Preds hiss when changing the volume (kinda like the Hornet does)?


----------



## jamato8

The static when changing the volume is normal but once you no longer move the volume control there is none and there is no effect on the sound. 

 While is nice to think that changing the parameters of the gain, e.g. higher gain would only change to volume so you could drive more difficult headphones easier, this isn't often the case. There are minor changes in the current flow and voltage and this changes the working conditions of the components. With this it would be expected that a perceptual change in sound would occur, and it does. I find I prefer the medium gain as the most neutral to my ear.


----------



## jamato8

Here are some images:


----------



## Kel Ghu

I was reading your review again and couldn't know how you tested it? Did you use the DAC or only the the amp section?


----------



## mitchb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here are some images:














_

 

These pictures make me want to buy another one or two just for around the house. No kidding and no more schmoosing these look good. I would purchase another if funds permitted.


----------



## mitchmalibu

Long time no buy ! Just received mine today and using it as my main amp ("poor" student 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). I'm amazed how something so small can make such a sound. Currently using it with my hd600, it blows my old tw-j1 out of the box. I'll post further developments once the unit settles in.


----------



## jamato8

I listen to it at home and as a portable I find it so much fun because you have just plain great sound in a tiny package. I like the combination of lossless on my iRiver H120 or H140 and the Predator. I found a small digital case (camera) that just fits both and has a velcroed belt loop that works perfect for walking around.


----------



## tristram

Hi John,

 Lovely pics of the 2 amps. Great color combos there. So, in which color is yours? both of those? Lol.

 Btw, El Cheapo me is saving for one as I preferred the Predator sound as compared to a Pico and a few of the other amps I heard. Should've one soon enough... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Cheers,
 Tris


----------



## unique_loy

nice review,i am waitting my Predator now.


----------



## user1029

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *unique_loy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_nice review,i am waitting my Predator now._

 

is the Predator currently in stock? I'm going to order one soon and I don't want to wait 6 weeks lol


----------



## jamato8

From what I know they are in stock and there are a number of colors to choose from.


----------



## mark_h

They are in stock and are shipped out really fast! I got mine in five days to the UK.


----------



## mitchmalibu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mark_h* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They are in stock and are shipped out really fast! I got mine in five days to the UK._

 

Same here, ordered it Sunday, received it friday (France).


----------



## user1029

great! I can't wait to try them with the UE-11s


----------



## mitchmalibu

Loving it so far, it's breaking in nicely. I've heard things in cds i listened to hundreds of times I never noticed before. Another of its great features is that you don't have to take your portable setup apart to make it into a great home setup, just plug the usb cord, switch source and you're good to go.

 Such a device should be in every audiophile pocket.


----------



## user1029

ok this is probably a stupid question but...

 I connected the Predator to the Usb port and I flicked the switch to "usb" on the predator. I only hear MOUSE CLICKS and not music from itunes!

 EDIT: * Nevermind, I got it to work *


----------



## DanTheMiataMan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *user1029* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ok this is probably a stupid question but...

 I connected the Predator to the Usb port and I flicked the switch to "usb" on the predator. I only hear MOUSE CLICKS and not music from * itunes!*_

 

There is the problem =P

 Foobar ftw


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *user1029* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ok this is probably a stupid question but...

 I connected the Predator to the Usb port and I flicked the switch to "usb" on the predator. I only hear MOUSE CLICKS and not music from itunes!

 EDIT: * Nevermind, I got it to work *_

 

What were the mouse clicks? Little feet walking over to get the music running? :^)


----------



## Rico67

Great Post, i have ordered mine today.
 Great Day !

 I m so in love with my hornet, i'm curious to compare the sound.
 Egal/better/ Different, i don't mind, it's an RSA Product.


----------



## Orcin

Could someone please post the physical dimensions of the Predator? I haven't stumbled onto that info yet. Sorry if it's in this thread already somewhere.


----------



## jamato8

It is, 75mm long 20mm high and 50mm wide. tiny, tiny tiny for all that it does.


----------



## zhix78

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *user1029* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ok this is probably a stupid question but...

 I connected the Predator to the Usb port and I flicked the switch to "usb" on the predator. I only hear MOUSE CLICKS and not music from itunes!

 EDIT: * Nevermind, I got it to work *_

 


 Hi user1029,

 would you be able to share your thoughts on the predator with your UE11?


----------



## ace8888

WOW! Just got passed 575ish hours and I couldn't believe my ears!

 this little thing has evolved so much since the first time I bought it.

 I didn't notice any significance difference in the sound @300h mark, so I thought the whole "burn-in" thing is just a myth, until I heard it myself...and I was so wrong lol

 Now, the music sounded so unbelievably fluid, warm and more refined than when it was in its 300h mark. The sound stage sounded much bigger, and all the frequencies has extended so much. also much much more musical.


 Based on Jamato8's review, he says that the sound is still changing until it hits the 1200h mark. BUT, I seriously don't know how it's gonna sound then, if right now it's already sounded so unbelievably goood!!


----------



## Orcin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is, 75mm long 20mm high and 50mm wide. tiny, tiny tiny for all that it does._

 

Thank you, jamato8. Interesting, the dimensions are almost identical to my Hornet.


----------



## jamato8

Yeah, and if nuclear powered it could be even smaller. :^) I find it amazing how small these things are getting and sound that emanates engulfing our head in a musical spectrum of enjoyment, well most of the time.


----------



## user1029

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zhix* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi user1029,

 would you be able to share your thoughts on the predator with your UE11?_

 

No problem! However, I am at 150hours burn in and my UE11s arrive tomorrow (who knows how many times I have to send them back for re-fits). With the triple.fi's that I'm using right now, the Predator even in the early stages of burn in, does yield noticeable improvements in soundstage


----------



## robojack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Orcin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you, jamato8. Interesting, the dimensions are almost identical to my Hornet._

 

You might want to measure again. It's quite a bit smaller than the Hornet. Almost identical in size to the Tomahawk, would be more accurate.


----------



## zhix78

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *user1029* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No problem! However, I am at 150hours burn in and my UE11s arrive tomorrow (who knows how many times I have to send them back for re-fits). With the triple.fi's that I'm using right now, the Predator even in the early stages of burn in, does yield noticeable improvements in soundstage 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

If it's any comfort to you, i just send back my UE11 for the 3rd time. 

 Do share your thought when you get back your UE11 and hopefully the fit works for you this time around. Keeping my finders crossed for you.


----------



## Orcin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *robojack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You might want to measure again. It's quite a bit smaller than the Hornet. Almost identical in size to the Tomahawk, would be more accurate._

 

I just measured my Hornet again:

 Length = 75mm (excluding the knob)
 Width = 50mm (at the back plate)
 Height = 25mm (at the back plate)

 So, assuming jamato8's measurements are correct, it is 5mm shorter than the Hornet, but certainly wider and possibly a little longer than the Tomahawk. I assume the extra height of the Hornet is needed to accomodate the battery.

 P.S. I ordered a Predator (black) today! I hate this place.


----------



## tnmike1

orcin: mine's a tad smaller than my 5.5g Ipod--front to back about 1/8" both directions and almost flush side to side. Don't have rulers on me but fit is pretty decent with one of those "Lance Armstrong"-type bands to secure. God forbid you'd use velcro on this bad boy and mar the finish. Use a band or an asparagus band or something like that


----------



## Orcin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tnmike1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_orcin: mine's a tad smaller than my 5.5g Ipod--front to back about 1/8" both directions and almost flush side to side. Don't have rulers on me but fit is pretty decent with one of those "Lance Armstrong"-type bands to secure. God forbid you'd use velcro on this bad boy and mar the finish. Use a band or an asparagus band or something like that_

 

I agree that the velcro is not the best solution, but the bands don't look so good on my Touch and it's hard to make them fit without covering some of the screen. I am thinking about getting one of the Headroom bags.


----------



## jamato8

I use stick on velcro all the time. Great stuff and instead of marring the surface it protects it and it peels off if you no longer want to use it unless you sew it to the case. :^)


----------



## tnmike1

orcin: O I forgot units like the Touch where you're using the complete screen. And john: I had velcroon my Portaphile for a couple years and went to remove it and it left some tackiness so I had to use acetone to remove it. Now I know acetone is a rather aggressive solvent, but still am now a little shy about using the velcro route on a $400 amp. I'll stick with the "lance armstrong"-type bands and leave the sticky at home


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tnmike1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_orcin: O I forgot units like the Touch where you're using the complete screen. And john: I had velcroon my Portaphile for a couple years and went to remove it and it left some tackiness so I had to use acetone to remove it. Now I know acetone is a rather aggressive solvent, but still am now a little shy about using the velcro route on a $400 amp. I'll stick with the "lance armstrong"-type bands and leave the sticky at home_

 

Sounds wise to me. I had a little adhesive left on a unit and some alcohol took it right off but I understand.


----------



## kau_999

@jamato8
 thx for your very detailed review....n i can't believe myself that i actually experienced what you did with my predator n TFpro.


----------



## jamato8

I am glad it was of help. It is an interesting journey, isn't it. 

 Welcome to HeadFi with your first post.


----------



## Orcin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Orcin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just measured my Hornet again:

 Length = 75mm (excluding the knob)
 Width = 50mm (at the back plate)
 Height = 25mm (at the back plate)

 P.S. I ordered a Predator (black) today!_

 


 I received my Predator today. It measures identical to the Hornet except the height, which is 20mm on the Predator. There are no screws on the back plate either, so it presents a lower profile than my Hornet. It looks great when paired with my Touch.

 I listened briefly before setting up my burn-in bench for the night with my HD600's and a SACD of Downward Spiral on repeat. I was impressed with the signature. It is a Ray Samuels amp to be sure. It sounded a little rough around the edges, but I would have been quite happy with it if I had never heard my mature Hornet. I played around with the DAC briefly. It was hard for me to draw a conclusion, since I have never owned a DAC and thus had no frame of reference except my other analog sources.

 I was surprised at the color though. The Predator that I received is not black. It is a very dark brown/red color, almost wine or maroon. Hard to describe, but definitely not coal black. It is obvious when placed next to my black Hornet, or even compared to the black faceplate of the Predator itself.

 Has anyone else experienced this color difference? I am not complaining, mind you. It actually looks pretty nice with the gold lettering and black faceplate. I just wondered if all black Predators had this appearance, or if something has changed in the latest production run of cases.

 I would post a pic, but frankly the color difference is so slight that I doubt it would be noticeable in a digital compressed photograph. In low light or at an angle, it actually appears black anyway.

 I wonder if it will change color over the 1000 hour burn-in, eventually reaching pure black at the moment of sonic magic? Ok, I'm stopping now before I completely destroy what little credibility I have left.


----------



## jamato8

I think you should update us, with the color change and how that relates to the sound and if they both mature at the same rate or if there is a noticeable difference of which you can note due to a color not dealing with the music but the body of the amp and the color of the music as it relates to the amplified source input and then how they relate to each other in both a subjective and if possible, objective manner that holds true for more than a day or two, if you feel you are able to do this.


----------



## Asr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think you should update us, with the color change and how that relates to the sound and if they both mature at the same rate or if there is a noticeable difference of which you can note due to a color not dealing with the music but the body of the amp and the color of the music as it relates to the amplified source input and then how they relate to each other in both a subjective and if possible, objective manner that holds true for more than a day or two, if you feel you are able to do this._

 

Behind the enigmatic alias that appears to you on your computer screen, is me laughing hysterically!


----------



## Rico67

Orcin, mine is black as my Hornet.
 It's on the grill and i 'll see if the coulor change.
 ( coulor of sound )
 I think you have right when you say that if we never listened a mature Hornet, it'll be a Great amp.
 For now, the best is to wait and pray that the magic of burning time make the same improvement tnan with the Hornet.
 I think Predator can be better than the hornet after some time, because original sound is more detail and punchy.
 The job ll be on open aera, medium, and treeble.
 before 50 hours there is some wave effect with an unstable sound in the opon aera, after that, all seems to be on place.
 Enjoy it.


----------



## mitchb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Asr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Behind the enigmatic alias that appears to you on your computer screen, is me laughing hysterically! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The color isthe music Its a matter of perspective.
 I picked up my predator after giving it a break for a week and I must say it again. This little amp sounds as if it were one of the big ones. It's very similar to my Hr-2 in sound quality granted the HR-2 has tons more headroom and will go louder but the magical housesound is still there. I putaway all my other toys i tried with and am pluged back into my predator. I went outside with the predator , Zen player wearing my woodied 225's woodied myseld but i bought the cups fro headcoverage. I wore it most of the morning and when I came across a mirror I had to break down laughing. Wooded Grados are not meant for portable use just because they look so silly. I looked like shrek.
 The moral of this story is the predator rocks.


----------



## tonyep

i love my predator! esp the deep tight bass. it sure took long to burn in but its worth it!


----------



## mitchb

When I first got my predator i let burn in for over 1450 hours continiuously. I gave it a break turned it off for a few days and it seems to have even more lustre than i remember.


----------



## Orcin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think you should update us, with the color change and how that relates to the sound..._

 

I'll be sure to keep you posted. I am wondering if I should turn the amp over every 12 hours so that the color will burn-in evenly on both sides. I would hate to reach the end and have a black top with a not-quite-black bottom.


----------



## Rico67

mabe with a microwave, burning time ll be shorter.
 Nobody have try it ?


----------



## Orcin

Back to my earlier comments about the "black" Predator, I have some pics linked below that show the color variation pretty well.

rsamps1

rsamps2

 Notice in pic #3 that the lighting is different and the variation is not as noticeable.

rsamps3

rsamps4


*UPDATE:* Ray confirmed via email that all Predator cases are this color. It is really a nice looking color in person and makes the amp look very classy. I don't think the pics really do it justice.


 By the way, these pics are handy to show the size of the two amps. The Predator and Hornet line up exactly except for height.


----------



## jamato8

I can't tell the difference from the images but mine has a very slight burgundy hue when compared to absolute black but I think it looks great. I think yours is normal.


----------



## Orcin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_slight burgundy hue when compared to absolute black_

 

Yes, that's exactly what I see. This helps a lot, thanks for the feedback.


----------



## dap_pad

Has anyone compared the DAC of the 2Move, D2 Boa, D2 Viper to the Predator's?


----------



## Orcin

Burn-in update: I am at 75 hours now, and I am starting to hear a teeny bit of the magic. The rough edges are starting to feel a little more polished. I can see the potential.


----------



## hatethatgiraffe

mine burgundy hue to it too!!
 mitchb u really burn in for 1450 hours before you used it?
 Have to admire your patience!!
 And your resolve but were you not interested to hear it changing?


----------



## Rico67

Mine is on the grill.
 100 hours now.
 Sound 'll touch the stars (next days or months )
 The improvement continue.
 it have the potential to surpass the Hornet with time.
 it's a typical product witch would be value twice the price after a great burning period of 1000 hours.


----------



## Del Griffith

Recieved mine yesterday from a fellow head.fier. First thing that blew me away was the size! I didn't pay alot of attention to that aspect in this thread. Wow is this thing tiny. If the Tomahawk is smaller yet I think for my hands it would be too small. The predator size is fine with me...just not used to such a tiny volume knob...love how light it is with my ipod and case though. Very pretty amp indeed. Though I won't use the dac much...I will love it for burn in purposes. Sounds fantastic with the 100 hrs it has now, looking forward to hearing after a few 100 more and beyond. Thanks jamato for the great review/tips and all others on this thread...very helpful.


----------



## Orcin

Now at 125 hours, and it sounds much better than a couple of days ago. I can't tell a lot of difference between it and my Hornet, although the Hornet still sounds a little smoother with my HD600's.

 The DAC is sounding great also after only 50 hours or so. If this thing keeps improving as others have said, I will be a very happy camper at the end. I was considering a home amp/dac at some point, but now I am not so sure.

 I love the size also. I upgraded my rig this year from a iPod 60gb Video/Hornet to the Touch/Predator combo. The stack height is considerably less in the new rig. It went from a brick to sleek and sexy.


----------



## Rico67

I burn it with the dac.
 140 hours on it.
 Sound have really improve bw 100 and 120 hours.
 As say Orcin, it can be compare with an full burning hornet yet.
 So if improvement continue, it' ll rapidely surpas the hornet.
 More detail and a better spacialisation of voice and instrument.
 A little more time to obtain a Great natural sound, and it'll be my prefer amp.
 For the dac, it's the same things for the burning time.
 So try to burn it in the same time.
 Sound with the dac just respect the sound of original sources no more less.


----------



## mitchmalibu

Here are some informations from Ray himself. I asked him a few question and I thought that his reply could help some people.

  Quote:


 When you start charging the battery the Predator makes little clicking
 noise as the charger is slowly turning on/off to give the current to the
 Lithium Ion, then it start to slow down then it will stop after 10-15
 minutes. You will see also that the little red light goes brighter &
 dimmer as the battery is getting charged.
 This is all normal after the battery gets enough current in it the
 clicking & the flickering of the light goes away & you will get no
 noise.
 Or you can charge the Predator with the switch in the OFF mode.
 After 2-3 hours the battery will be full.
 The Predator gets charged ONLY from the supplied charger that comes with
 it, not from the computer.
 The DAC is off when not used with the USB. Computer supply the 5 volts
 to the DAC only.
 You can charge it any which way you like with no problem. The best way
 for burn-in is to use USB source & let it run for few days so both
 sections, the amp & the DAC will be burned together.
 Cheers.
 Ray Samuels


----------



## Rico67

Another answer from ray to obtimise batterie life :

 I would fully charge it & use the battery until it is over with & fully charge it again.
 You can not fully discharge the battery as it shuts off by itself before that happens.
 Cheers.
 Ray Samuels


----------



## fdhfdy

what a self-hypnosis process.

 It keeps me clear thinking the little plastic chip inside


----------



## CJ Berri

I'm fairly new to headphone amps and the predator looks like a great companion for my macbook. I'll be using senn HD650s with a cardas cable. It looks like the output on the predator is a 1/8", right? Is using a 1/4" to 1/8" adapter cutting corners? Thanks.


----------



## grawk

use a cable converter instead of a solid body one and you'll be fine


----------



## jamato8

I agree. The adapter that comes with the 650's works great. When using the straight converter there is much strain put on the 1/8 jack of the Predator, too much in my opinion and I like the Sennheiser adapter better anyway. I did change the 1/4 jack on the Sennheiser to a Radio Shack one, which is Much better as it is all copper and it makes a much more secure connection.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree. The adapter that comes with the 650's works great. When using the straight converter there is much strain put on the 1/8 jack of the Predator, too much in my opinion and I like the Sennheiser adapter better anyway. I did change the 1/4 jack on the Sennheiser to a Radio Shack one, which is Much better as it is all copper and it makes a much more secure connection._

 

Do you have a pic of your modded adapter?

 USG

 d-_-b


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *upstateguy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you have a pic of your modded adapter?

 USG

 d-_-b_

 

No, but all you do is cut off the other one, do a continuity check for the right lead and solder them correctly. I also used a bit of heat shrink as an additional strain relief when coming out of the Rat Shack connector.


----------



## Orcin

I am heading out today for a week in France (business). My Predator hit 250 hours and I am taking it along to give it a good long listen. Nothing like a couple of 10-hour plane flights to get you up close and personal with your amp. I'll be comparing it to my Hornet in my mind, but I am so confident in the Predator's sound at this point that I am leaving the Hornet at home.


----------



## Rico67

Welcome in France Orcin.
 I hope you'll enjoy your journey.


----------



## dvessel

Hellow everyone! My first post.. Well, that's it. This will be my first headphone amp. The horrid internal audio on my MacBook Pro (Core 2 Duo) makes all sorts of odd noises. R2D2 beeps and random popping with some programs. This gives me a good excuse to finally get something worthwhile to drive my Grado SR-225's.

 Thanks jamato8 for posting the review. It really got me excited and finally convinced me after looking at 3 other amps.


----------



## Del Griffith

Mine is burning in nicely. I am at about 175 hrs and the bass is really showing up more. I am happy for that, loving the amp so far, and pretty to look at too!! Sure is tiny...gotta love that.


----------



## digger945

I just purchased a mini to dual TS cable and hooked up the Predator to a pair of Event TR-8 monitors, and I must say the imaging and soundstage from these little speakers makes my HD-650's jealous. Now the NAD-1130 Pre is up for sale. BTW thanks for the SE530's , Del, they sound absolutely perfect on the run with the Predator in my shirt pocket.
 Enjoy,
 Scott


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dvessel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hellow everyone! My first post.. Well, that's it. This will be my first headphone amp. The horrid internal audio on my MacBook Pro (Core 2 Duo) makes all sorts of odd noises. R2D2 beeps and random popping with some programs. This gives me a good excuse to finally get something worthwhile to drive my Grado SR-225's.

 Thanks jamato8 for posting the review. It really got me excited and finally convinced me after looking at 3 other amps._

 

Hey you are welcome. I find it exciting when a product brings true enjoyment when listening to music and is just fun to have. One nice thing about great quality amps like the Predator, it can give all of us an even ground/reference to discuss music and just the joy of listening. We kind of know what we are all experiencing. 

 Welcome to the journey.


----------



## dvessel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey you are welcome. I find it exciting when a product brings true enjoyment when listening to music and is just fun to have. One nice thing about great quality amps like the Predator, it can give all of us an even ground/reference to discuss music and just the joy of listening. We kind of know what we are all experiencing. 

 Welcome to the journey._

 

That's the main reason I joined the forum; getting a better listening experience out of my music collection. I just recently received the sr-225's but the poor output on my laptop I felt wasn't giving me all it had to offer. What really appealed to me was the fact that the amp evolves. Something I hope to do along with it by acclimating my ears through this process.

 Thanks again. Now I just need to get a reply from their sales department. Contacted them through e-mail just the other day.


----------



## digger945

dvessel, that is the same reason I too joined this forum after just reading posts for about a year. I don't know if the sales dept you are referring is RSA but if it is, Ray himself will contact you if not by e-mail, then by phone. If you are referring to the Predator, yes, when you listen on a decent set of cans, you quickly, no instantly, forget all about figures, specs, reviews and the like, as you enjoy music on-the-go like never before (amp makers advertise with me!). I especially enjoy the sub-terranean low freqs, delivered with punch, authority and definition as recieved by the SE530's.
 Enjoy,
 Scott


----------



## dvessel

Yeah, I was referring to RSA. Didn't know he was a one man shop. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I left a message on Ray's machine yesterday (sunday). Will wait patiently for his response.

 I'm not going to go crazy with this but I might have to get another set of cans just to get another perspective. I absolutely love Grados due to how it renders fuzzy guitars on old Krautrock recordings to sludge like Boris.. But I'd guess other phones would do better for electronic (AFX, BoC) and some jazz.

 Cheers!
 -joon

 :: edit ::

 I got in touch with Ray! I'll have them in my hands by Thrusday!


----------



## jamato8

I have been listening to the Woo 6 a lot today, the Xin Reference and the Predator. They are all different. Right now listening to the Predator it is so much fun and spacious. The Reference may be a little more spatial but there is such a beautiful ebb and flow to the music right now with the Predator if is just plain fun and engrossing. I have to admit I am so glad I got the Edition 9. More than any phone I have it allows me to hear the music and the difference in amps with little effort. The 9's change so much with amplification, which tells me they are doing what the signal wants and not what they want. Anyway, the 9's and the Predator go together so very fine. I was also out today with the Predator, iRiver H120 and the Portapros and again the openness and flow of the music belied the fact that I was using 20 dollar headphones and was portable.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I agree with you about the Predator - it is a masterpiece. 

 I believe I have 8 portable amps, and ALL of them are very good - but the Predator stands ahead of the rest in terms of synergy with the majority of my IEM (and even full size cans if forced to use them with a portable). There are few headphones in my stable that make the Predator come in second among my portables. I am actually writing up a post about portable amp and IEM synergy, which I hope to post tonight or tomorrow.


----------



## anadin

How do you think a pair of Sony MDR-SA5000's would sound with the Predator in both AMP/DAC modes.

 Many thanks.


----------



## fatman711

anyone try the Predator with HF1s? I'm looking for something to tame the damn highs...


----------



## The Monkey

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fatman711* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyone try the Predator with HF1s? I'm looking for something to tame the damn highs..._

 

Are you using flats or bowls?


----------



## fatman711

bowls. Using flats to tame the highs defeats the purpose of having Grados IMHO.


----------



## Orcin

I listened to the Predator quite a bit on my trip. It is at 250 hours of burn-in now, and I don't feel the magic yet. I am waiting for "spacious" to appear, as decribed by others. I will be patient though.


----------



## The Monkey

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fatman711* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_bowls. Using flats to tame the highs defeats the purpose of having Grados IMHO._

 

Really? You don't think the HF-1 sounds better with flats? I think the flats do a nice job reining in the upper end splash of the HF-1.


----------



## grawk

I will only listen to my hf1s with flats at this point.


----------



## GTL

any one tried the iqube and the predator? which do you prefer?


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

i have just paid ray for my unit and can't wait till it is shipped to malaysia .....

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mark_h* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They are in stock and are shipped out really fast! I got mine in five days to the UK._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mitchmalibu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Same here, ordered it Sunday, received it friday (France)._


----------



## dvessel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i have just paid ray for my unit and can't wait till it is shipped to malaysia ....._

 

Ray is very fast to ship. In the States, I got mine a day early (2 instead of 3). Shipped the same day I sent payment.

 The sound is definitely sweet.. How it matures to my ears.. Only time will tell but I'm happy with it so far (about 40hr burn-in). That's not saying much though since this is my first dedicated head amp.


----------



## Del Griffith

I am embarresed to ask this question but I have no experience with the dac on amps. If I want to burn in the amp...the usb cable hooked to the predator an computer..powers it as well as plays right? I didn't know if I need to use the charger while using the dac. I know that the usb cord charges the ipod when hooked up..but wasn't sure with the predator. 

 A dumb question answered is better than permanent ignorance..right???? lol..

 Thanks...


----------



## Rico67

No, the usb just give energie for the dac, but don't give juice for the amp.
 So yes, you have to use it with the charger during the burning process..


----------



## Del Griffith

Thanks for the quick reply Rico...I'm an old dude still learning everyday!!! Thanks again...


----------



## Rico67

it was a pleasure Del Griffith.
 You can use the predator with this own batterie and replug it on the charger when there is no juice ( 3 hours )
 It'll work for 50 hours on the batterie.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *The Monkey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Really? You don't think the HF-1 sounds better with flats? I think the flats do a nice job reining in the upper end splash of the HF-1._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grawk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will only listen to my hf1s with flats at this point._

 

I found the HF-1 with flats and APS V3 cable were so close to my HP-1000 with signature cable that I traded the HP-1000 off to try other stuff. 

 I actually did the following review of them using the Predator: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/rev...easure-292405/

 So, the Predator is a good match, with flats, however the HF-1 were a little distant with the bowls.


----------



## Spareribs

The predator is a fine product. I was impressed at a meet.


----------



## user1029

I've burned in the Predator for approximately 700 hours now and I can confidently say that the UE11s coupled with the Predator is a match made in heaven! lol

 The Predator markedly opens up at around 500 hours!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *user1029* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've burned in the Predator for approximately 700 hours now and I can confidently say that the UE11s coupled with the Predator is a match made in heaven! lol

 The Predator markedly opens up at around 500 hours!_

 

That sounds about like what Jamato8 and I have posted before. That is why we say at 600 hours it will sound nothing like it did at 300 hours.


----------



## Rico67

I'm at 360 hours...
 and don't sound as well than my old Hornet.
 So i'll continue the burning process.


----------



## anadin

I have had my Predator for about 3 days now and there is already one or two things starting to bug me about it.

 The SQ when the Predator is running via the supplied mains adaptor is clearly better to my ears than when its running on its own juice either when using both the DAC or the AMP sections.

 I e-mailed Mr Samuels about this and he said there shouldn't be any difference between the two power sources in terms of SQ but I can clearly hear a difference.

 I know its very early days yet and the Predator needs untold hours of burning in but this is really starting to bug me, another thing is why wasn't the Predator made with a power indicator of some sort so you know when its being charged.


----------



## Rico67

another thing is why wasn't the Predator made with a power indicator of some sort so you know when its being charged.

 It's the same way with Hornet.
 But it's not very important, because after 3 hours, you are sure it's charged.
 And the led give you indication when it's discharged.
 Less compoment is better for the sound and batterie life.


----------



## anadin

Rico67 I have about 40 hours of burn in on mine so its still very early days, when did you first notice a change for the better in SQ.


----------



## dvessel

Quote:


 And the led give you indication when it's discharged. 
 

It does? I'm not completely sure since I think I just went through my first full discharge but the unit just shut itself off.

 Documenting it's behavior on Ray's site would be great. Discovering it's sonic capabilities on my own I can bear but charging/discharging behavior I'd like to know up front.


----------



## jamato8

The LED indicates when being charged by pulsing. Right now mine is pulsing like crazy as I charge it as I forgot and left it on until it ran totally down. When it stops pulsing it is charged. 

 I found that, for me, at 300 hours, I wasn't crazy about the sound of the Predator, and I have stated this in my review. After that things started to improve and the journey was fun, after I looked back at it because the sound was good and kept getting better though there were changes up and down.


----------



## Rico67

yes Jamato8, i have read all your post.
 Great thread.
 so, i'll continue the burning process.

 For anadin, first change start after 50 hours (sound become more stable and homogene, but no as i want, see my post ).

 For the dac,sound'll improve really after 200 hours.

 the way is long but worth the value.


----------



## dvessel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The LED indicates when being charged by pulsing. Right now mine is pulsing like crazy as I charge it as I forgot and left it on until it ran totally down. When it stops pulsing it is charged. 

 I found that, for me, at 300 hours, I wasn't crazy about the sound of the Predator, and I have stated this in my review. After that things started to improve and the journey was fun, after I looked back at it because the sound was good and kept getting better though there were changes up and down._

 

Mine has never pulsated. Always solid red when it's on. Anyone else want to weigh in?

 I'm looking forward to the changes -thanks to your review jamato. I have about 40 hours too. Sounds pretty good so far to these untrained ears.


----------



## Rico67

dvessel;4397941 said:
			
		

> It does? I'm not completely sure since I think I just went through my first full discharge but the unit just shut itself off.
> 
> 
> I'll check it, not sure of the info with predator.
> Sure only for the Hornet.


----------



## jamato8

There is no indicator that the battery is getting low, the Pred just shuts down but does not discharge the battery to a harmful level. The pulsing, when charging gets much less noticeable after the unit has been charging for a half hour or so and you have to look close to notice the now slight pulse. I normally don't even pay attention to it but just plug it in and do whatever I was doing, like what I am doing right now. :^)


----------



## dvessel

Ah, okay. Not a concern really as long as there's a safeguard. I just wanted to know. I'm very aware of the dangers Li-ion's. I've seen one explode due to no protection circuitry.

 And thanks Rico67 for checking it out but jamato confirms what I witnessed.


----------



## anadin

At 43 hours burn in, bass has started to tighten up and it doesn't sound as flabby.


----------



## Rico67

anadin, have you see my thread, there are some informations about this period of burning session.
 it's call :
 i have receipted my predator today.


----------



## tnmike1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dvessel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine has never pulsated. Always solid red when it's on. Anyone else want to weigh in?

 I'm looking forward to the changes -thanks to your review jamato. I have about 40 hours too. Sounds pretty good so far to these untrained ears._

 

my light never pulsates either, but no problem. Just rechqarge on a regular basis and I'm OK


----------



## Rico67

mine pulsates and i can heard it with my headphone during the process until baterrie is full.


----------



## robojack

Mine pulsates when charging (when it's switched on and plugged in), enough for me to know that it's charging.


----------



## Rico67

I want say like you Robojack, but do you heard it when it's pulse ?


----------



## robojack

Good question. Honestly, I don't ever hear it pulsating when it's charging, whether it be with my cans or IEMs.


----------



## Rico67

I think it's normal to heard this pulsation noises when it charging,but i just want to know if it's the same thing for everyone, because i haven't read this information on the forum.
 With the hornet, there is no noise whent it charging (but it's not an internal ion batterie).


----------



## sant430

My Predator came in today!! I'm very happy with it. Awesome headphone amp, just awesome


----------



## user1029

nice color scheme!


----------



## sant430

Thanks! The color scheme's part of a bigger project! I'll have pics of the entire perspective when everything arrives all well and good


----------



## jamato8

Very nice! I look forward to seeing the combination.


----------



## robojack

Wow, that one looks like it's made of wood!


----------



## dvessel

That's real perdy sant430. Nice matching pouch. I got the black one but it came with this hideous royal bluish pouch. heh

 I am feeling this amp though. Not sure what it is. Don't have to patients to do any controlled testing but I am loving it myself. Listening to Faust's first recording and it just feels so smooth. The fuzzed guitars are not overly harsh; very pleasant sounding.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sant430* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks! The color scheme's part of a bigger project! I'll have pics of the entire perspective when everything arrives all well and good_

 

I forget, are you coming to the CO regional meet on 7/26/08? See my sig for the link.


----------



## sant430

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I forget, are you coming to the CO regional meet on 7/26/08? See my sig for the link._

 

Yah, I've been eyeballing the Co Meet Thread on and off. I don't know if I'll be able to go yet. It's looking to be an event worth going to tho'......


----------



## jchristensenlovesaudio

I just wanted to toss in my fifty cents here, I freakin love this amp!!

 I own several portable amps, a good home amp/cd player setup, It's not mind blowing, but I have some good stuff and I don't use anything but the Predator anymore.

 It just has the best most musical sound I have heard. It also has the best bass of all my equipment, and it is the smallest amp I have.

 The build quality I would agree is amazing. The tolerences are so tight, it's so solid and the fit and finish... wow!!

 I think it is so amazing that Ray has managed to pull so much sound out of such a small amp/source combo, and made it fairly affordable as well.

 I just dig it and want to listen to it forever. I'm a Predator man.

 Dude, your review was great, thank you, and sorry for the long post guys. I start talking about the Predator and bla bla bla...


----------



## tha_dude

Thanks for your impressions. How many hours do you have on yours?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jchristensenlovesaudio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just wanted to toss in my fifty cents here, I freakin love this amp!!

 I own several portable amps, a good home amp/cd player setup, It's not mind blowing, but I have some good stuff and I don't use anything but the Predator anymore.

 It just has the best most musical sound I have heard. It also has the best bass of all my equipment, and it is the smallest amp I have.

 The build quality I would agree is amazing. The tolerences are so tight, it's so solid and the fit and finish... wow!!

 I think it is so amazing that Ray has managed to pull so much sound out of such a small amp/source combo, and made it fairly affordable as well.

 I just dig it and want to listen to it forever. I'm a Predator man.

 Dude, your review was great, thank you, and sorry for the long post guys. I start talking about the Predator and bla bla bla...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

mine is 3 hours and still counting ....


----------



## Del Griffith

I am around 260 hrs. I am happy to say that the bass is really coming through now. When I first got it I missed the bass switch on my p2 just a little. Now the bass is tighter and more there than with the bass boost on my p2. The sound is beautiful in every way. I look forward to reaching that 500 hr mark. Slow going being I don't have the patience to leave it continually...I put it in burn-in mode for 20 hrs a at a pop in between sleep and work. Sometimes I let it go a couple of days at a time.


----------



## anadin

Can someone please reassure me that my Predator is going to sound better than it is now.

 Im around the 85-90 hour mark and it sounds terrible in every way.

 The sound suddenly changed today and it was all for the worst can anyone chip in and and give me some advice, is this normal around that time.

 It sounds so bad that I keep thinking its faulty.

 Flat dull no bass and lifeless whats gone wrong!!


----------



## jamato8

Let her run in. The review has information. If it stays bad then maybe something is wrong but let the signal keep going through it. I wasn't happy at 300 hours but then . . . 

 What phones are you using?


----------



## anadin

At the moment im using the DAC with asio and winamp.

 Im using Sony MDR-SA5000's.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *anadin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_At the moment im using the DAC with asio and winamp.

 Im using Sony MDR-SA5000's._

 

I use a Mac. Well are all the settings right? Do you have another amp to compare to?

 Listening to a live recording of Pink Floyd right now with my Ed. 9. Exsolent and Pred. . . . .


----------



## anadin

jamato8 reality has hit home where this amp is concerned.

 It really does need some serious hours of burning in before its going to sound good.

 90 hours done on the grill only another 410 until it sounds ok.


----------



## Rico67

anadin, welcome, i'm happy.
 i'm not alone waiting for a good sound with my predator ( compar to my Hornet).
 I'm nearly 460 hours of burning session on it ..
 and hope it'll improve.
 50 hours before having a satble sound.
 200 hours to burn the dac.
 Now sound ok with the dac, but not with the Imod.
 So i'll continue until 1000 hours.
 I thing it's a great amp, but need a long time before having great sound (due to the caps and batterie burning).
 I heard the pulse during the charge and that is unpleasant.


----------



## anadin

The Predator im happy to say is sounding much better today.

 Im between 100-105 hours burn in, everything is a lot less harsh and the frequencies seem to be settling down.


----------



## Rico67

If you use it with the inside dac, wait until 200 hours, you'll be happy.
 Sound get better and better with time.


----------



## alitomr

After reading the review, I decided to put the Predator on the wish list, probably for Christmass!

 Did i say I h9 you, Jamato? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.

 Excellent post!


----------



## Mat Bon 0013

Does anybody ever experience distortion from iMod>Super cotton dock>predator?


----------



## Rico67

What do you mean with distortion ?
 saturation ?


----------



## Mat Bon 0013

With the iMod+SCD the sound just breaks up after a certain volume level. At volume levels below that, it sounds fine. The iPod 4G+Cyro works fine with the predator. iMod+SCD also works without a problem with the hornet. Strange that!


----------



## Rico67

Yes, it's very strange !
 i own an hornet and a predator too.
 i use an imod 5G + pvcaps or femal imod dock and haven't this trouble.

 I prefer the sound of the predator with the dac than with the imod.
 For the imod and for the instance (Predator on burning process) i prefer usee my old hornet.


----------



## Podster

I have not broke down for the Predator yet but if they are anything like my Toma you need to run signal to a decent load for 500hrs to really here Ray's amps open up completely Of course if you ask Ray he will say plug it in and just listen to the music! LOL

 When I got my Toma I had already read up on all the experiences out here and just ran a mini from ipod out to amp in and let it run steady until the batteries died somewhere between 438 and 456 hours as I looked at it at 456 hours and the Toma was dead but that next set of batteries was a totally different sound than out of the box day 1! 

 Whatever you do don't give up on that Samuel's product as it will be worth every penny when it reaches it's full potential


----------



## nickyboyo

I had the privilege of listening to a fully burnt in (1200 hours) Predator this weekend. The amp section is amazing, i have never heard such control on bass, mids and trebles from a device so small. Not only control, but the purity of the combined sound was so very very good. The only other time i have been impressed as much on a first listen was my first listen to Xin's supermicro.

 The Predator is definitely on my wish list.


----------



## Rico67

thank you nickyboyo for the information.
 I'm sure it' ll sound great when it ll be full burn.


----------



## tha_dude

Did you try the DAC section? If so, what did you think of it?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nickyboyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had the privilege of listening to a fully burnt in (1200 hours) Predator this weekend. The amp section is amazing, i have never heard such control on bass, mids and trebles from a device so small. Not only control, but the purity of the combined sound was so very very good. The only other time i have been impressed as much on a first listen was my first listen to Xin's supermicro.

 The Predator is definitely on my wish list._


----------



## nickyboyo

Sorry dude, i only listened to the amp section. I am sure reviews of the dac section will follow soon, along with more indepth amp section reviews.


----------



## webbie64

I listened to the DAC (burned in for at least 400 hours) as well as the Amp section (burned in for at least 1200 hours) and I think the DAC holds the amp section back.

 Oh, it's definitely quite listenable and, sure, it's (way) better than the TBAAM and even, from memory, betters the Total Bithead (which also suffered from a slight bit of hiss as a DAC, but put out a better signal level than the Predator DAC does). But, compared to the Predator Amp being fed from the ibasso D1 DAC with LT6241 opamp in it, the Predator DAC is a disappointment for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .

 It's not that it is in any way bad. In fact I see it as a quite functional USB DAC, with good sound...but exactly that - good. For me the D1 is very very good - I could listen to it feeding the Predator feeding the Livewires for many many hours: with the Predator DAC it's like listening to something that's fine for background but lacks some of the punch, dynamics and detail that I want when listening to music for pleasure/enjoyment. (Which means that although it has those features, they are a little less present than when I'm running the D1 through the Predator - and I am simply a PITB when I know I can choose a better, even if it's only slightly better, sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ).

 I find the Predator DAC to provide a sound that is a bit veiled, a bit abrasive and actually draws back from the delightful sound the amp alone can produce. It's just not as rounded as the D1. Less atmospherics, a little bit tinnier with the top end. It's like the converse of the D1, where it's the amp that draws back the excellent resolution of the DAC. Predator DAC vocals are pleasant, bass is a bit muddier/less defined (which reduces the effect of ultra-resolution and detail that the amp section by itself produces so, for some, this may be considered a good thing, slightly more 'integrated' sound, more musical?, than the amp section by itself). But the high end is definitely not as tonally accurate as the amp alone is (even though the amp alone has this as a slightly weaker area to begin with - but in the DAC it's, for me, patently obvious 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). The Predator DAC also slightly lacks the bass amount and resolution of the D1 and Pico DACs.

 The Predator DAC also puts out a smaller signal than the external line-in levels normally are, meaning that when running the DAC/Amp combo you are pushing the volume control and/or the Gain level more than with the Predator amp being fed from an external DAC.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Webbie,

 Much of the time, my Predator is being fed by my iMod, and then second most common is using the Predator with my Micro DAC with iRiver H140 or Macbook using optical output. However, the Amp section is so good that I still like the Predator driven by the DAC more than my Pico, which does have a superior DAC with better sound-staging and transparency but works better as source to me than as an amp (like you use your D1).

 So yeah, I use the Predator with iMod and Micro DAC optical, which are superior sources to ANY of my USB DAC, *but I can't say the Predator DAC is disappointing at all when compared to superior sources feeding the Predator amp.* Yes, the DAC is not quite as good the one in the Pico, Micro DAC, D1 or D2, but for me it is close enough that if I use the Predator with it's DAC I still enjoy it very much, and the amp section is to die for.

 So, I partially agree with you that there are better DAC Amps out there, but I disagree with how bad you say it sounds via DAC. I know you said "quite listenable", but "big disappointment" came right after that. I would say it is a little less open and detailed, missing a little of the ambience and micro-details of the D1, Micro DAC or Pico, but I wouldn't go as far as disappointed. 

 Also, to my ears the Predator, Pico and Micro DAC have more bass than the D1 DAC with 6234, 6241 or 8656 opamps. I was having to use AD797 opamps in the main amp, and use the headphone out as a DAC pre-amp out to get the right amount of bass.


----------



## jamato8

Interesting. I like the D1 and have had it for some time and enjoy using the optical input but the USB of the D1 imo isn't as good as the Predator. I also prefer the Boa as a usb dac to the D1 (I have tried a number of different opamps in the D1). As to a well rounded very enjoyable and musical instrument I find the Predator to be excellent with both the amp or USB and amp.


----------



## webbie64

Headphoneaddict is quite right, and I have amended the original post to be more accurate describing what I intended to describe (it all came out too 'black and white' at first).

 It isn't so much that the Predator DAC is in any way poor; as I have said it is good.

 I think my disappointment, though, stems from the fact the Predator amp section is so very very good; in fact I have been describing it to others as the second SQ 'benchmark' portable amp Ray has created (the other being the still outstanding SR-71).

*So my disappointment was really in regards to my own raised expectations from listening to the amp itself before connecting it up to listen to it as a DAC/Amp*. For me that's when it returned still very good overall sound, but, as indicated, sound that wasn't as good as the Predator itself amplifying another DAC's signal. I admire Ray no end for his professionalism and dedication to this headphone world of ours and I guess I'm saying I hoped too high in relation to the Predator DAC. In fact I guess I'm hoping that if he ever is able to put the time in, then I'd say raising the Predator DAC's abilities just that smidgen more would make the Predator nothing less than outstanding.

 I think most would find I'm nitpicking - and I'm willing to take that criticism. I am nitpicking. But, for me, the Predator is only let down by its 'good' DAC and the less-than-absolutely-perfect top end. Unfortunately I have heard better and, as a result, want that 'better'. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I reckon if Ray tinkered a little more with this DAC/amp he'd be able to set it as a very long-lasting overall 'benchmark' the way he did with the SR-71 some years back. Oh, the Predator will remain a benchmark regardless, I fully understand that, but he's so close with this design that I just want these two niggling points improved and then I'd be safe to ignore further USB DAC/Amps from then on I reckon.

 BTW, Headphoneaddict, thanks for your comments on bass. It shows you and I hear that aspect differently (and it's at these times I wish we were in the same world location so we could sit down with exactly the same rig and do notes side by side 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ).


----------



## jamato8

Nothing wrong with constructive criticism. 

 Not to get off the point to far but I think the new SR-71a will turn some heads and add an excellent quality to the portable arena, possibly redefining it.


----------



## anadin

Two weeks into my Predator with around 180 hours of burn in.

 I know its still early in regards of burn in but I find myself agreeing with webbie64.

 Personally I am a little underwhelmed with the Predator.

 Comparing it to my previous portable amp the Headamp Pico the Predator struggles in the DAC department.

 The DAC is nothing more than ok, it doesn't touch the Pico in terms of drive punch or clarity, I don't want to knock anyone who has reviewed the Predator but I don't see how its DAC got rated so highly.

 The Predator comes into its own when using the amp section which beats the Pico's amp.

 All in all I wish I had waited for Rays new portable amp to be released.

 The DAC on the Predator is a no no for me a big let down, unless burn in does something magical which I cant see after 180 hours of burn in.


----------



## jlingo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *anadin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The DAC is nothing more than ok, it doesn't touch the Pico in terms of drive punch or clarity, I don't want to knock anyone who has reviewed the Predator but I don't see how its DAC got rated so highly._

 

That's probably because those who rated highly Predator DAC, most likely didn't use the predator with the same gear combination as you do. 

 In this hobby, I have learned that synergy plays a very prominent role.


----------



## Rico67

sound of the predator dac improve realy after 200 hours.
 For me at more 500 hours, it sounds great, but i can't compare it with pico.


----------



## The Monkey

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nothing wrong with constructive criticism. 

 Not to get off the point to far but I think the new SR-71a will turn some heads and add an excellent quality to the portable arena, possibly redefining it._

 

And why do you think that? Please share your news. Thanks!


----------



## webbie64

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *The Monkey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And why do you think that? Please share your news. Thanks!_

 

He posted more detail in the SR-71a thread - RSA SR-71a, resized, gain control and soon to be offered. . . - Page 6 - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio


----------



## Orcin

My Predator has reached 500 hours now, and the magic is definitely back! I am now hearing a more refined sound that reminds me of my mature Hornet, but is even more impressive. This change occurred somewhere between 350 and 450 hours for me. I am continuing the burn to a full 1000 hours, but I am completely satisfied with the amp now even if nothing changes from here on.


----------



## webbie64

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Orcin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...I am now hearing a more refined sound that reminds me of my mature Hornet, but is even more impressive..._

 

I think that's a very apt description, as it was also what went through my head a number of times after listening to the Pred fully burned in.

 It's got that underlying punch and drive, particularly in the bass, that first impressed me with the Hornet M. And the extra impressiveness of the Predator, to me at least, is in the even more transparent and tonally accurate rendition of the overall sound (deeper soundstage as well, due in part to improved micro detail over the Hornet M).


----------



## The Monkey

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *webbie64* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_He posted more detail in the SR-71a thread - RSA SR-71a, resized, gain control and soon to be offered. . . - Page 6 - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio_

 

Yeah, I read that, thank you. The essence of that thread is that it's the same amp with a gain switch. I was wondering if there is further information that would turn my head as indicated above.


----------



## webbie64

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *The Monkey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, I read that, thank you. The essence of that thread is that it's the same amp with a gain switch. I was wondering if there is further information that would turn my head as indicated above._

 

Well I thought the latest info gave it a bit more excitement and changed the "it's the same amp" nature of the thread...

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have found out that the new SR-71a is going to have vicious voltage swing of 16 volts a gain of 11, and an output of 250ma's. This would seem to be approaching home amp land in a portable. I am excited anticipating the sound that this may be very well capable of. I wonder what else will be coming down the pike? It just gets better and better._


----------



## The Monkey

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *webbie64* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I thought the latest info gave it a bit more excitement and changed the "it's the same amp" nature of the thread..._

 

I'm just wondering how those specs differ from the original version.


----------



## grawk

The gain's a whole heck of a lot higher


----------



## Orcin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *webbie64* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's got that underlying punch and drive, particularly in the bass, that first impressed me with the Hornet M. And the extra impressiveness of the Predator, to me at least, is in the even more transparent and tonally accurate rendition of the overall sound (deeper soundstage as well, due in part to improved micro detail over the Hornet M)._

 

Yes, I think it's the detail and distinct separation of the instruments that is impressing me the most over the Hornet. I am not very good at describing these things in audio terms, but in my mind what I feel is that the sound went from having a rough edge at 200 hours to a very polished one at 500 hours - like I was comparing a sawed edge of a piece of lumber to the polished edge of a granite countertop. Every note is clear and precise, and the vocals are forward and clean. And the bass... oh boy!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I am not yet seeing the soundstage as a big difference over the Hornet, although it is quite good, so maybe that is yet to come as I get closer to the 1000 hours. I may also be influenced by my choice of music recently, so I will try to find something else to examine this element more closely.

 I must confess to listening a lot to NiN's Downward Spiral lately, which may not be the best choice for evaluating soundstage. But it sure is demanding when it comes to separation and clarity. A bad system can make it sound irritating with the instruments collapsing together in a heap of noise, while a good system can leave your mouth hanging open from a blast of what the uninitiated might call "distortion" but I choose to call "creative use of synthetic tone". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And the bass... oh boy!!! The snap of the bass drum pedal, the elongated bass guitar note, the rumble of a deep organ... all awesome.

 The punch and drive is also important to me, so I don't think I would enjoy this amp as much if it were more detailed but more laid back (as many have described hearing from the Pico). Again, I like NiN and Rush and Black Sabbath, but no classical. I like Mahavishnu Orchestra better than Miles Davis, even though I have both. Did I mention I have no classical music at all? So take my opinion on this point with a grain of salt if your tastes are different. But not the rest of my comments, I see those being valid with any music.

 This amp has excellent synergy with my iPod line out (via ALO Cryo Dock) and my two primary phones (HD600 & UM2). I find both of these phones to be a bit dark and the iPod needs some punch and bass boosting. The amp pushes through the veil of the phones and wakes up the neutrality of the iPod, while the phones pick up the accurate bass and push it to the correct balance for my taste.

 This time last year, my primary portable rig was iPod 5G, Hornet, and UE sf5pros. I upgraded each piece in the past few months and I am really happy with the result. In summary...

 I love my stuff!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I guess I'm just a happy guy today. Thank you for being here to share this joy with me.


----------



## Rico67

Orcin,
 i'm ok with your analyse.
 I own an Hornet (non M) and an Predator.
 I have test the Hornet with new cables from ALO (x cryo ylver jumbo).
 Conclusion, it's improve detail and dynamique of the Hornet and give it a real chance to comp with the Predator.
 For the instance, myt Predator have 700 hours and i can't say witch one is better than the other.
 I just can say than the Hornet have great synergie with sylver cables and the Predator doesn't need it to have this hight level of sound quality.


----------



## anadin

Is the Predator capable of driving the Denon AH-D2000 to a good level using both its DAC and amp.

 If anyone has any experience of this combo I welcome your thoughts.


----------



## digger945

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *anadin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the Predator capable of driving the Denon AH-D2000 to a good level using both its DAC and amp.

 If anyone has any experience of this combo I welcome your thoughts._

 

I am listening to the Predator driving my Denon 2k's right now using my "test track" and I am shocked. This is good. No problem at all (I have the gain set to Hi). Gonna try some bass intensive stuff and report back, BTW I just got the Predator out of the car, where it has been for a week with a dead battery and am charging now while listening.
 I have only had the Denon's since last Friday, and have only used the Rega Ear supermodded, which I also recieved Friday.
 This is the first time listening to Denon's with the Predator.
 Scott
 EDIT: forgot to mention this is with Predator's DAC, from iTunes on a laptop.


----------



## jamato8

I was getting some static when moving the plug for the headphones so I cleaned the plug with alcohol and the socket a number of times. This eliminated the static, which was a slightly poor connection and at the same time improved the detail, since I have a better connection. This is always a good idea as oxides can and do form, which is why gold is so often used as a plating but it still occurs and the practice of cleaning contacts such as this is always a good idea. (I remind myself)


----------



## digger945

anadin,
 I have listened to the Denons and the Predator enough to confidently say that this combo will work fine. What did I listen to?
 Artist----Song
 George Benson-Turn your love around
 Herb Albert-Rise
 Ambrosia-Your the only woman
 Enigma-Temple of Love
 Jeff Buckley-Hallelujah
 Eric Johnson-Trademark
 Mark Morrison-Return of the Mack
 Sade-No ordinary Love
 Steely Dan-F.M.
 Taste of Honey-Boogie Oogie Oogie
 and of course my spin for the week.
 I know these tunes well and I hate to say it but the Predator just beat out my recently purchased Rega Ear Supermodded. A Beta22 it aint, but wow, you really do get alot in such a portable package, that I daily slip into my shirt pocket, mated to a 3rd gen Nano, and take to work or play. If you wanna peg down the shipping to London, I will gladly ship it to you to try-before-you-buy. That's how much I enjoy this hobby and want to share with others. My Predator has about a 1000hrs now and is approaching maturity. I must add that the Denon's have 25ohm drivers, so this may play a factor in why they are so easy to drive, like Jamato8's Ed9's that are 32ohm I believe. Lemme know what ya think about it.
 Enjoy,
 Scott
 EDIT: I should probably point out that I am in no way affiliated with RSA or Ray Samuels or am I trying to push his products for him. I just love music and want to give back to the good folks at Head-Fi, as they have given so much to me already. That said, I love the Predator, and will miss it dearly, but I have the 71a to look forward to, eh!
 EDIT#2: After a little more toying around, I think I like using the Predator as a source for the Rega even more. I wonder how many others use the Predator as thier source for a Home Rig? Maybe a new thread is in order.


----------



## dvessel

Interesting. I was considering the Denon for my Predator. That's another push in that direction.

 Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## Del Griffith

I am at just over 400 hrs on my predator. I am so thrilled with this little beauty now. I can't believe the way the bass just gets better and better with burn in. Everything else is coming together too...with my triple.fi's...I am enjoying the best combo yet for me!! With this amp and the triple.fi...I am the closest to audio nirvana as I've ever been..lol...


----------



## digger945

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Del Griffith* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am at just over 400 hrs on my predator. I am so thrilled with this little beauty now. I can't believe the way the bass just gets better and better with burn in. Everything else is coming together too...with my triple.fi's...I am enjoying the best combo yet for me!! With this amp and the triple.fi...I am the closest to audio nirvana as I've ever been..lol..._

 

You should have seen me! The Predator was the very first amp I bought. Made for a very sweet beginning to my Head-Fi plunge.


----------



## aluren

nice beginning indeed! 

 i'm at the 300 hr mark on my predator, and suddenly, the bass just came out of nowhere, and this is with the UE-10! i can't imagine how much bass there would be with the UE-11...


----------



## Akabeth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aluren* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_nice beginning indeed! 

 i'm at the 300 hr mark on my predator, and suddenly, the bass just came out of nowhere, and this is with the UE-10! i can't imagine how much bass there would be with the UE-11..._

 

I noticed overall improvement on the entire low end through Predator -> Ed9's at about the same time, and becomes more and more apparent as I am well within 400 hours with the Predator. I am well within 300 with the Ed9's.

 I've posted this similar impression in the other RSA Predator thread. They make a good tag team...


----------



## jordanross

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *digger945* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You should have seen me! The Predator was the very first amp I bought. Made for a very sweet beginning to my Head-Fi plunge._

 

Man. Good choice. I really am thinking that's what I should have done. Instead I got a used Tomahawk, which I think was a good first choice. But I wish I had got the Predator.


----------



## user1029

I've now exceeded 1100 hours of burn in. Previously in this thread, I've praised the Predator's sound at 800 hours but I had a very pleasant surpise at around 1000 hours - the instrumental separation and detail _increases even more!_ I know this is not my mind playing tricks on me because every day I listen to the iPhone straight from the headphone jack and when I come home at night, I listen through the Predator so my perception of sound quality resets so to speak


----------



## jamato8

Yeah, wait till you hit 2000 hours. Just kidding but it is interesting to read how many people exerience the same changes in the presentation of sound. I also used a baseline to judge against. Your amp is growing and is maturing. :^)


----------



## wavoman

I use the amp only (no need for the DAC), and it _really is _as good as everyone here says, especially after burn-in. You are reading the truth, not groupie fanboy prattle.

 I have Ultrasone Pro 750, Beyer 600-Ohm 880, and Senn 600 (closed, semi-open, and open). Drives 'em all, and drives me wild (and drives my wife crazy, 'cause I sing and dance while listening, and I can't do either, I actually look and sound like a buffoon, but who cares). Source is a Cowon I7, all wav files ripped using EAC, custom red-and-black Predator to match the I7.

 But let's add: *Ray is a pleasure to do business with*. No waiting list. No guessing on when you will get your amp. He phones you! He checks if you are happy! Amazing.


----------



## the_eleven

I could be listening to a Predator mature, but instead I am waiting for the R-71a.


----------



## The Monkey

What are you guys using to measure burn-in time? Is a digital clock more reliable or is analog better? Thanks!


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wavoman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 But let's add: *Ray is a pleasure to do business with*. No waiting list. No guessing on when you will get your amp. He phones you! He checks if you are happy! Amazing._

 

Sounds great!

 I'm thinking seriously about getting the Pred when I get to the US in the coming Aug.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wavoman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I use the amp only (no need for the DAC), and it really is as good as everyone here says, especially after burn-in. You are reading the truth, not groupie fanboy prattle.

 I have Ultrasone Pro 750, Beyer 600-Ohm 880, and Senn 600 (closed, semi-open, and open). Drives 'em all, and drives me wild (and drives my wife crazy, 'cause I sing and dance while listening, and I can't do either, I actually look and sound like a buffoon, but who cares). Source is a Cowon I7, all wav files ripped using EAC, custom red-and-black Predator to match the I7.

 But let's add: *Ray is a pleasure to do business with*. No waiting list. No guessing on when you will get your amp. He phones you! He checks if you are happy! Amazing._

 


 That is hysterical. So do you look like Snoopy when you dance? Get some phones and an amp for your wife and you guys can do the Snoopy. :^)

 Is the body red or black?


----------



## gp_hebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *the_eleven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I could be listening to a Predator mature, but instead I am waiting for the R-71a._

 

I bet some people will tell the same burn-in BS with the SR-71 so you better get a Predator now if that's what you want. Listen with your ears and don't believe the hype.


----------



## user1029

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *The Monkey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What are you guys using to measure burn-in time? Is a digital clock more reliable or is analog better? Thanks!_

 

Math. haha
 24 hours x ~40-41 days = 1000 hours if you run a signal through it 24/7


----------



## user1029

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gp_hebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I bet some people will tell the same burn-in BS with the SR-71 so you better get a Predator now if that's what you want. Listen with your ears and don't believe the hype._

 

I wholeheartedly agree. Unless there is a unanimous, unequivocal consensus that the SR-71 revolutionizes the current landscape of portable amps, I'll stick with my Predator. Portable amps have decent resale value as well


----------



## wavoman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *The Monkey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What are you guys using to measure burn-in time? Is a digital clock more reliable or is analog better? Thanks!_

 

Oh man you are old school. Of course we use RFC-1035 NTP hitting NIST servers that supply UTC messages based on atomic oscillators located in Boulder, Colorado ... paid for by your tax dollars.

 I used to just plug stuff in and leave it there, 24x7, connected to an FM receiver (rap stations are pretty close to pink noise). After 10+ days or so I would say that's 250 hours. (*user1029* just made the same point). But you would still make fun of this, wouldn't you?

 HP's have mechanical elements that do seem to change over time IMHO. As for electronics, you know the arguments about capacitors as well as I do. On most audio forums the best posters seem to agree "yea, burn in of capacitors is a small but real effect". We seem to hear it with the Pedator. Who knows?

 Consider this:

*No animals are harmed*. The electricity use is minimal. No one is taking our money for snake-oil when we burn in. It makes us feel good, like we are part of a secret society that knows how to handle our stuff. It's fun. It's like Pascal's Wager -- safer to do than no do (the Yoda version). 

 Let it be.


----------



## the_eleven

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *user1029* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wholeheartedly agree. Unless there is a unanimous, unequivocal consensus that the SR-71 revolutionizes the current landscape of portable amps, I'll stick with my Predator. Portable amps have decent resale value as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The Predator is highly praised by everyone; no doubt it is a fine amp that I would be very happy with.

 I suspect that Mr. Samuels is up to something good, so might as well wait until the 71a arrives.


----------



## wavoman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the body red or black?_

 

Black body with red endcaps to exactly match the i7. The branding/engraving looks great on the black. My cables from moon-audio and brainsalad also use red-black techflex, so the cables match!

 Gotta steal the camera back from my wife and take some pix.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_do you look like Snoopy when you dance?_

 

Much worse. Not gonna put it on YouTube. Joe Cool I ain't.


----------



## jp11801

here is where you guys are off base, caps require power cycles to form. Leaving you amp on 24/7 does not effectively form your cap as there is no power cycle on them off with rest. So basically this is most likely a case of mental burn in combined with your head compensating for your expectation. It would be a great idea for folks to read up and educate yourself prior to making claims like these. 
 Once again big caps in small amps that "require" 1000+ hours of burn in by members that don't even understand cap forming should be taken with a giant sized grain of salt. Just curious why would an amp manufacter include a cap in a design that is so out of spec with the voltage/current that the amp produces? Bueller?


----------



## Akabeth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wavoman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But let's add: *Ray is a pleasure to do business with*. No waiting list. No guessing on when you will get your amp. He phones you! He checks if you are happy! Amazing._

 

I received mine the following day I got in contact and sent payment to Mr. Samuels 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Talk about fast


----------



## Icarium

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *the_eleven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Predator is highly praised by everyone; no doubt it is a fine amp that I would be very happy with.

 I suspect that Mr. Samuels is up to something good, so might as well wait until the 71a arrives._

 

That's a pretty loose definition of "everyone"


----------



## the_eleven

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Icarium* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's a pretty loose definition of "everyone"_

 

Ah, another cunning linguist.


----------



## tnmike1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jp11801* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_here is where you guys are off base, caps require power cycles to form. Leaving you amp on 24/7 does not effectively form your cap as there is no power cycle on them off with rest. So basically this is most likely a case of mental burn in combined with your head compensating for your expectation. It would be a great idea for folks to read up and educate yourself prior to making claims like these. 
 Once again big caps in small amps that "require" 1000+ hours of burn in by members that don't even understand cap forming should be taken with a giant sized grain of salt. Just curious why would an amp manufacter include a cap in a design that is so out of spec with the voltage/current that the amp produces? Bueller?_

 

Those power cycles: isn't that what HeadphoneAddict or someone else has suggested?? I mean, let the Predator play, then turn it off to let the cap form???


----------



## jamato8

I have stated that as Ray has and other people. Also that is why music, IMO, works better than pink noise, because there are constantly changing current demands. I know that when I burn't the Predator in originally I just let it play but used music. I also think that shutting an amp down from time to time or even every day is a good way to go.


----------



## The Monkey

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *the_eleven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Predator is highly praised by everyone; no doubt it is a fine amp that I would be very happy with._

 

No, no it isn't. And I like Ray, and I like some of Ray's amps. But the above statement is simply false. It is praised by everyone in the praise threads.


----------



## jp11801

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have stated that as Ray has and other people. Also that is why music, IMO, works better than pink noise, because there are constantly changing current demands. I know that when I burn't the Predator in originally I just let it play but used music. I also think that shutting an amp down from time to time or even every day is a good way to go._

 

Jam I need to understand your logic as it intrigues me. 

 The cap in the amp is so large that the current the amp produces takes 10x the time to 'burn in' than a standard amp might based on your previous post regarding cap 'burn in' on a tube amp. Then this miniscule current has constantly changing current demands that acts in a similar fashion to turning off the amp and is better than pink noise. I am sorry but this causes a breakdown in logic for me, how can the cap be so massive that in takes untold hours of burn in but relatively miniscule changed in current as compared to the caps rating causes the cap to form. 

 You have stated a background in electronics and some expertise in caps so can you explain this?


----------



## immtbiker

Praise is as prays does.

 P ray s = "Ray" to the P and the Y...yo.

 Take that feather and stuff it in your *cap *-acitor, µF breath 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Sorry, too much Ben and Jerry's "Cherry Garcia". Makes me giddy.


----------



## the_eleven

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *The Monkey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, no it isn't. And I like Ray, and I like some of Ray's amps. But the above statement is simply false. It is praised by everyone in the praise threads._

 

Tough bunch around here.

 After spending hours and hours reading reviews of various amps, I would conclude that, yes, the Predator is praised by those that own it and like it. Every one of them.

 I never meant to imply that everyone liked it, or praised it, & will definitely be more careful with my choice of words in the future.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *The Monkey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, no it isn't. And I like Ray, and I like some of Ray's amps. But the above statement is simply false. It is praised by everyone in the praise threads._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jp11801* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jam I need to understand your logic as it intrigues me. 

 The cap in the amp is so large that the current the amp produces takes 10x the time to 'burn in' than a standard amp might based on your previous post regarding cap 'burn in' on a tube amp. Then this miniscule current has constantly changing current demands that acts in a similar fashion to turning off the amp and is better than pink noise. I am sorry but this causes a breakdown in logic for me, how can the cap be so massive that in takes untold hours of burn in but relatively miniscule changed in current as compared to the caps rating causes the cap to form. 

 You have stated a background in electronics and some expertise in caps so can you explain this?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Praise is as prays does.

 P ray s = "Ray" to the P and the Y...yo.

 Take that feather and stuff it in your *cap *-acitor, µF breath 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sorry, too much Ben and Jerry's "Cherry Garcia". Makes me giddy._

 


 I like Ray too, he's a very sociable guy, but I have to report that *my Hornet never burned in*..... 

 It doesn't' sound any different today than it did the day I took it out of the box....

 USG


----------



## Orcin

Update: I have reached 950 hours now, and the Predator sounds awesome. My unit has definitely improved, and dramatically so, from the day I got it a couple of months ago.

 Last night, I plugged the Predator into my "home system"... Apple Lossless via iTunes to USB, and Sennheiser HD600's. I've been building a separate iTunes library of ALAC files, instead of the AAC 256VBR files that I use on my portable rig, and I decided to try out a few of my favorites. Maybe it was the wine, but I truly enjoyed the session.

 I have never been completely thrilled with the sound of my HD600's from the portable. However, using the Predator's DAC instead of the iPod's, and the lossless files instead of the compressed, makes a significant difference. The bass is deeper and more refined, and the soundstage is expanded. It may not be a substitute for a home system, but you could do much worse than the Predator if you are on the road with your laptop and a set of full-size cans.

 I have decided to go on to 1200 hours because it isn't costing me anything except a bit of electricity. Surely, that will be enough!


----------



## LFC_SL

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Orcin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Update: I have reached 950 hours now, and the Predator sounds awesome. My unit has definitely improved, and dramatically so, from the day I got it a couple of months ago.

 I have decided to go on to 1200 hours because it isn't costing me anything except a bit of electricity. Surely, that will be enough!_

 

I have the long forgotten Tomahawk (I wasn't on this site for 4 months and missed out on all the Predator love) but would say I am only on 300 hrs or so 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Am intrigued by the Predator, though I would be willing to wait until xmas for the traditional new product release. I could sell my sound card and tomahawk and get a predator instead. Or sell the sound card, keep the tomahawk and buy a predator


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Orcin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Update: I have reached 950 hours now, and the Predator sounds awesome. My unit has definitely improved, and dramatically so, from the day I got it a couple of months ago.

 Last night, I plugged the Predator into my "home system"... Apple Lossless via iTunes to USB, and Sennheiser HD600's. I've been building a separate iTunes library of ALAC files, instead of the AAC 256VBR files that I use on my portable rig, and I decided to try out a few of my favorites. Maybe it was the wine, but I truly enjoyed the session.

 I have never been completely thrilled with the sound of my HD600's from the portable. However, using the Predator's DAC instead of the iPod's, and the lossless files instead of the compressed, makes a significant difference. The bass is deeper and more refined, and the soundstage is expanded. It may not be a substitute for a home system, but you could do much worse than the Predator if you are on the road with your laptop and a set of full-size cans.

 I have decided to go on to 1200 hours because it isn't costing me anything except a bit of electricity. Surely, that will be enough!_

 

At the Colorado Head-Fi meet last Saturday, everyone who compared my approx 2000 hour Predator with one at 200 and 700 hours agreed that mine was best, and that the more hours they had the better they sounded. 

 There was a 4th Predator there but I don't recall the hours, and I forgot the name of the guy who was leading the 4 Predator comparo. I am not sure mine sounds any different now than it did at 1200 hours, but Jamato8 says his continued to change well past 1200 hours. If I knew who it was with the 200 and 700 hour Predators I could compare mine to theirs when they hit 1200 hr vs my 2000+ hours.


----------



## The Monkey

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_At the Colorado Head-Fi meet last Saturday, everyone who compared my approx 2000 hour Predator with one at 200 and 700 hours agreed that mine was best, and that the more hours they had the better they sounded. _

 


 Did listeners know which one was which while listening?


----------



## jamato8

Double blind study:

 The amps were in brown paper bags put there by a person picked off the street who was also drinking from a bag. That did add to the mix as one bag ended up with a can of Colt 45 but it sounded surprisingly good.


----------



## The Monkey

I'll take that as an "I don't know." Does anyone have an answer?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *The Monkey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did listeners know which one was which while listening?_

 

As far as I know only the guy organizing the comparo knew the hours (one was his), and I didn't know the hours on the three that weren't mine until I was done listening.


----------



## Orcin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_At the Colorado Head-Fi meet last Saturday, everyone who compared my approx 2000 hour Predator with one at 200 and 700 hours agreed that mine was best, and that the more hours they had the better they sounded._

 

Wow! I think, for me, the official "burn-in" ends at 1200 hours just because I am getting tired of the process. Of course, I will be adding an hour or two per day after that from normal use, so it should just continue to improve. I am really looking for the point of diminishing returns and I have probably passed that already. Besides, my wife keeps asking when it will finally be done "cooking".


----------



## Romanee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *upstateguy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I like Ray too, he's a very sociable guy, but I have to report that *my Hornet never burned in*..... 

 It doesn't' sound any different today than it did the day I took it out of the box....

 USG
_

 

*[size=medium]
 Have you tried inserting a new battery and turning it on?[/size]*






 {well... at least I got a charge out of that one... sorry, it's late, I'm still at work, the check is in the mail -- btw - howyabeen?...}


----------



## jamato8

Listening to the Who "Endless Wire" CD, both the first studio recording in 24 years and the live CD enclosed from 2006. This amp just does an excellent job of portraying the live feel to the music.


----------



## Usagi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Victor Chew* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for your reply. I find that my predator sounds better at the high gain. You hit the nail on the head when you said that I will experience channel inbalances when the volume knob is set at lower end. When I use the low gain I do not get channel inbalances for the same volume but the detail seems to have gone missing. Is there anything wrong with my predator? Why is the sound of all three gains different?_

 

I concur with this post. I found that the soundstage widens with increased gain; i.e. 1, 4, 11. The volume knob was adjusted to maintain equal volume levels with each change in gain settings so as to not confuse loudness with the results.


----------



## jamato8

Yes, I find the sound a little brighter on the higher gain. Well on some music that works out very well. Sweet little amp it is.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

You guys may be right. I also find the D2 Viper and Boa sound better on high gain.


----------



## aluren

perhaps since it's due to a headphone's ability to be driven? i noticed the same high-gain effect when used with the pk-1. however, the difference was less noticeable with the UE-10.


----------



## Victor Chew

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, I find the sound a little brighter on the higher gain. Well on some music that works out very well. Sweet little amp it is._

 

With the higher gain I find that the music is more forward and agressive and hence initially very impressive. However, on extended hearing sessions, I find that I get tired quickly and makes me want to take the iems off. Conversely, with the mid gain, although not as impressive initially as the high gain, it is more mellow and I do not suffer the hearing triedness so quickly.


----------



## Victor Chew

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Orcin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow! I think, for me, the official "burn-in" ends at 1200 hours just because I am getting tired of the process. Of course, I will be adding an hour or two per day after that from normal use, so it should just continue to improve. I am really looking for the point of diminishing returns and I have probably passed that already. Besides, my wife keeps asking when it will finally be done "cooking". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I had the same comment from my wife too. I too stopped at 1200 (using the itunes play counter and computing it with excel) using the Sheffield lab burn in CD tracks.


----------



## cat6man

hi folks,

 just discovered this group recently.

 i'll post pics of my current portable rig one of these days 
 but wanted to ask a question about burning in the predator.
 mine was shipped by ray today (yes!) and i was wondering:

 1. does the predator need a load (aka headphones plugged in) or 
 can the headphone jack can be empty during burn-in?
 2. how about gain setting, does it have an impact?
 3. usb or analog for the music input? (i'll be using both)
 4. is it the dac or the amp that dominates the burn in process?

 thanks


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

1. does the predator need a load (aka headphones plugged in) or 
 can the headphone jack can be empty during burn-in?

 Plug in headphones

 2. how about gain setting, does it have an impact?

 Low gain at a normal volume will be the same as medium gain at the same volume

 3. usb or analog for the music input? (i'll be using both)

 Ray says the DAC only needs about 200 hours, the rest of the time you can feed it through the analog input if you want.

 4. is it the dac or the amp that dominates the burn in process?

 Amp


----------



## cat6man

thanks larry


----------



## Victor Chew

From point view of software, 2 ways to burn it in. Either with normal songs or with noise (ie. wide frequency spectrum waves). With the latter, it find that the burn in shorter. I use the Shefield lab burn-in CD for my burn in.


----------



## sant430

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Victor Chew* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With the higher gain I find that the music is more forward and agressive and hence initially very impressive. However, on extended hearing sessions, I find that I get tired quickly and makes me want to take the iems off. Conversely, with the mid gain, although not as impressive initially as the high gain, it is more mellow and I do not suffer the hearing triedness so quickly._

 

I found this was spot-on for me as well. The first listen on high gain was definitely on the forward side. However, I found myself going back to the mid gain and enjoying that fully. 

 I read somewhere on HeadFi about someone switching between the input and dac setting for comparison and gave it a try myself. Once I got MediaMonkey ready to play in sync with my iMod (4th Gen), I listened while alternating between the dac and the imod. Connected to the the Predator, the iMod rocks; sounding very detailed and aggressive. This time with the Predator's DAC being used alongside the iMod, I found that the DAC offers a significant expansion in soundstage*. The instruments sounded almost stacked with the iMod when compared to the soundstage I heard with the DAC. I do want to be clear that both the iMod AND the DAC sound wicked; so good that I'm looking for a way to find some $$$$ to send my 5.5gen to Vinnie. I just really enjoy the soundstage of the dac and the detail.


 I found that I also have a negative!! Wavoman, I don't know if you've posted pics of your red/black Predator, but I'd love to see the opposite of me! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




http://www.head-fi.org/forums/4408585-post514.html

 So I know that I'm still very early in my burn-in time. I received my Pred right before Independence Day, but it's only on for a few hours daily, if that. Right now, I'm very very very happy with this investment. They synergize great with my ue11s. This combo makes any of my DAPs sing.

 The coolest thing about this hobby is you get to hear music for the first time.......again. Thanks guys.....


 [size=xx-small]*this is one of the times I experienced an aural revelation, being able to finally hear and understand other people's sonic description - I get more of these now. To me, having my tin ears being able to REALLY hear AND listen is really exciting[/size]


----------



## Del Griffith

Mine recently wen't through more noticable changes regarding burn-in. I have somewhere in the neighberhood of 600 hrs on it. Lately it really started getting weaker in the bass, I stopped oficially burning in at 500 hrs. I decided to let it get somemore burn in time and wow...the bass came back and then some. I put another 50 or so last week.. (I am on a vacation so couldn't do more at the moment) and I plan to put a few hundred more on it in the coming weeks. I know it takes alot of hrs...but at 500 it sounded great so I was just going to let the rest happen as I listen...sometimes though I guess I'll have to hurry the process. Great little amp though. I have never felt that any other details in the highs or mids let-up so to speak...just the bass. I'll keep posting my thoughts as I get more hrs...as I stated earlier...I can only listen on average an hr or so a day...so it takes awhile.


----------



## mitchmalibu

Anyone here using the Sleek SA6 with their predator ?


----------



## Usagi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cat6man* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi folks,

 just discovered this group recently.

 i'll post pics of my current portable rig one of these days 
 but wanted to ask a question about burning in the predator.
 mine was shipped by ray today (yes!) and i was wondering:

 1. does the predator need a load (aka headphones plugged in) or 
 can the headphone jack can be empty during burn-in?
 2. how about gain setting, does it have an impact?
 3. usb or analog for the music input? (i'll be using both)
 4. is it the dac or the amp that dominates the burn in process?

 thanks_

 

Ray did mention that burning in the DAC would simultaneously burn in the Amp. Therefore, burning the device through the DAC would be the preferable method. 

 FWI, I've notice incremental improvements during the last week with my Predator. Like fine wine, it's getting better with age. Good job Ray.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sant430* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I found this was spot-on for me as well. The first listen on high gain was definitely on the forward side. However, I found myself going back to the mid gain and enjoying that fully. 

 I read somewhere on HeadFi about someone switching between the input and dac setting for comparison and gave it a try myself. Once I got MediaMonkey ready to play in sync with my iMod (4th Gen), I listened while alternating between the dac and the imod. Connected to the the Predator, the iMod rocks; sounding very detailed and aggressive. This time with the Predator's DAC being used alongside the iMod, I found that the DAC offers a significant expansion in soundstage*. The instruments sounded almost stacked with the iMod when compared to the soundstage I heard with the DAC. I do want to be clear that both the iMod AND the DAC sound wicked; so good that I'm looking for a way to find some $$$$ to send my 5.5gen to Vinnie. I just really enjoy the soundstage of the dac and the detail.


 I found that I also have a negative!! Wavoman, I don't know if you've posted pics of your red/black Predator, but I'd love to see the opposite of me! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





http://www.head-fi.org/forums/4408585-post514.html

 So I know that I'm still very early in my burn-in time. I received my Pred right before Independence Day, but it's only on for a few hours daily, if that. Right now, I'm very very very happy with this investment. They synergize great with my ue11s. This combo makes any of my DAPs sing.

 The coolest thing about this hobby is you get to hear music for the first time.......again. Thanks guys.....


 [size=xx-small]*this is one of the times I experienced an aural revelation, being able to finally hear and understand other people's sonic description - I get more of these now. To me, having my tin ears being able to REALLY hear AND listen is really exciting[/size]_

 

With the iMod and a Jumbo Cryo Silver X mini-iMod-LOD the Predator DAC soundstage can sound better than iMod sometimes, but with the Portable Vcap dock the iMod will pass up the Predator DAC easily. 

 As a matter of fact, today my iMod 5.5G via Portable Vcap Dock > mmwwhats silver RCA interconnects > Woo WA6 maxed with Sophia Princess rectifier > HD600 with stock cable sounded better than Blutarsky's Mac mini > Stello DA100 optical > Joe Grado Signature Ultra Wide Bandwidth IC > Melos SHA Gold > HD600 with APS V3 cable! Switching to his Zana Deux with Pendles made silver interconnects didn't change the results.

 So yes, you need the 5.5G iMod with vCap dock! And, feed that into the Predator and you will reach nirvana.


----------



## the_eleven

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With the iMod and a Jumbo Cryo Silver X mini-iMod-LOD the Predator DAC soundstage can sound better than iMod sometimes, but with the Portable Vcap dock the iMod will pass up the Predator DAC easily._

 

OK, pardon me, as I am thick in the head, but what are you saying here?

 If I understand correctly, the iMod LOD output is still going through the iPod DAC, so how does the Predator DAC come into play at all?


----------



## The Monkey

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *the_eleven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK, pardon me, as I am thick in the head, but what are you saying here?

 If I understand correctly, the iMod LOD output is still going through the iPod DAC, so how does the Predator DAC come into play at all?_

 

I'm curious about these last few posts, too.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *the_eleven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK, pardon me, as I am thick in the head, but what are you saying here?

 If I understand correctly, the iMod LOD output is still going through the iPod DAC, so how does the Predator DAC come into play at all?_

 


 My statement was in reference to sant430 when he/she posted the following:

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sant430* 
_I found this was spot-on for me as well. The first listen on high gain was definitely on the forward side. However, I found myself going back to the mid gain and enjoying that fully. 

 I read somewhere on HeadFi about someone switching between the input and dac setting for comparison and gave it a try myself. Once I got MediaMonkey ready to play in sync with my iMod (4th Gen), I listened while alternating between the dac and the imod. Connected to the the Predator, the iMod rocks; sounding very detailed and aggressive. This time with the Predator's DAC being used alongside the iMod, I found that the DAC offers a significant expansion in soundstage*. The instruments sounded almost stacked with the iMod when compared to the soundstage I heard with the DAC. I do want to be clear that both the iMod AND the DAC sound wicked; so good that I'm looking for a way to find some $$$$ to send my 5.5gen to Vinnie. I just really enjoy the soundstage of the dac and the detail._

 

I was addressing sant430's statement about the Predator DAC sound quality being better than the iMod, by adding my findings that in some cases it is better but only if you are not using Vcap dock or some other big cap dock. 

 I was agreeing that If I put the same music on my Macbook and listen through the predator DAC, and then I compare it to the iMod with the same music, played with a "standard iMod cable" into the Predator = the Predator DAC can sometimes sound better than the iMod.

 My point was that in switching to an ALO portable Vcap dock to feed the iMod into the Predator, then the iMod will almost always sound better than the Predator DAC (and better than just about all the other USB DAC out there too). I can honestly say that the sound quality of the iMod is tremendously increased by changing from a standard iMod cable (like sant430 was using) to a Vcap dock (or other ALO big cap dock like Auri, mundorf, Jensen).

 I was not talking about feeding the iMod through the Predator DAC.


----------



## sant430

This place is sooooo bad.......

 Damn it, right when I think I'm out, they pull me back in!!!

 *snort snort*


----------



## Paddy855

Quote:


 My point was that in switching to an ALO portable Vcap dock to feed the iMod into the Predator, then the iMod will almost always sound better than the Predator DAC (and better than just about all the other USB DAC out there too). 
 

HeadphoneAddict, seeing that you own both the Predator and the Pico I am really curious to know if you would rate the Pico DAC feeding the Predator as a "pre-amp" (low gain, maxed out volume) higher or lower than iMod+Alo Vcap feeding the Predator?


----------



## justin w.

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Paddy855* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HeadphoneAddict, seeing that you own both the Predator and the Pico I am really curious to know if you would rate the Pico DAC feeding the Predator as a "pre-amp" (low gain, maxed out volume) higher or lower than iMod+Alo Vcap feeding the Predator?_

 

If anyone were to do such a thing....it would have to be the other way around. Max the volume on the amp, adjust the source (Pico's) volume control.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Paddy855* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HeadphoneAddict, seeing that you own both the Predator and the Pico I am really curious to know if you would rate the Pico DAC feeding the Predator as a "pre-amp" (low gain, maxed out volume) higher or lower than iMod+Alo Vcap feeding the Predator?_

 


 In terms of sheer detail, ambience, soundstage and performance; I would say the iMod with Vcap or Jensen copper foil cap dock is on (or close to) the same level of performance as the USB DAC in the Pico, Apogee mini-dac and Stello DA100. Feeding any of those into the Predator will be slightly better than using the Predator's USB DAC, but feeding those sources into a full size desktop amp will be even more impressive. I use the Apogee and Pico as a pre-amp, and set the amp to max and control changes in volume with the Preamp. To me it's silly to feed the Pico into the Predator, and I'll pick one or the other depending on the music or headphones I'm using.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In terms of sheer detail, ambience, soundstage and performance; I would say the iMod with Vcap or Jensen copper foil cap dock is on (or close to) the same level of performance as the USB DAC in the Pico, Apogee mini-dac and Stello DA100. Feeding any of those into the Predator will be slightly better than using the Predator's USB DAC, but feeding those sources into a full size desktop amp will be even more impressive. I use the Apogee and Pico as a pre-amp, and set the amp to max and control changes in volume with the Preamp. To me it's silly to feed the Pico into the Predator, and I'll pick one or the other depending on the music or headphones I'm using._

 

Silly? I think you should get another Pico or Predator, and use the single amp as a pre and the other two as mono amps! Geez get wit the program man. You got a portable pre mono amp setup and only, oh, 1500 dollars invested plus the cabling. :^)

 I have done this. I have wiring I made up so I can run either two amps as mono amps or a pre to two amps. Sounds very good but not too practical.


----------



## Paddy855

Quote:


 If anyone were to do such a thing....it would have to be the other way around. Max the volume on the amp, adjust the source (Pico's) volume control. 
 

Thanks for the clarification, Justin. I obviously had a completely false idea of how the pico as a pre-amp or any pre-amp really works.

  Quote:


 To me it's silly to feed the Pico into the Predator, and I'll pick one or the other depending on the music or headphones I'm using. 
 

I guess you're right since there's not really a good reason to "improve" the Predator amp with the Pico DAC. But I definitely see that the Pico DAC would shine even more with big desktop amps than with the built-in Pico amp.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Paddy855* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I guess you're right since there's not really a good reason to "improve" the Predator amp with the Pico DAC. But I definitely see that the Pico DAC would shine even more with big desktop amps than with the built-in Pico amp._

 

Yeah, I think Justin did a good job designing the Pico in such a way that it can drive other amps well, eliminating the need for a line out.


----------



## the_eleven

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My point was that in switching to an ALO portable Vcap dock to feed the iMod into the Predator, then the iMod will almost always sound better than the Predator DAC (and better than just about all the other USB DAC out there too). I can honestly say that the sound quality of the iMod is tremendously increased by changing from a standard iMod cable (like sant430 was using) to a Vcap dock (or other ALO big cap dock like Auri, mundorf, Jensen)._

 

Thanks for clearing that up for me!

 Good to know that the Wolfson DAC in the iPod gives high quality sound, in the right conditions.


----------



## aluren

HeadphoneAddict:

 have you tried an imod dock vs. a regular dock connecting to the vcap? i heard that you can't use the imod dock with vcap and i was wondering why that is. does it make the sq worse?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aluren* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HeadphoneAddict:

 have you tried an imod dock vs. a regular dock connecting to the vcap? i heard that you can't use the imod dock with vcap and i was wondering why that is. does it make the sq worse?_

 

The caps are to block the DC offset from the DAC before the amp on the line out dock. Stock, the cheap caps inside the iPod held the sound back. The higher the quality of the caps is, the more transparent and spacious the sound will be. The sound will be only as good as the weakest link in the audio-chain.

 So if you use the small blackgates in the LOD to feed the vcap dock you have already inserted your weak link before it enters the vcap dock, "tainted the sound" if that is the right term for it. Don't get me wrong, the Blackgates in the LOD are MUCH better than the stock caps inside the iPod were, but the Vcaps or Jensen Copper Foil caps, or Auricaps or Mundorf are all much better than the small blackgates.

 The caps don't add to the sound, you use better caps so as to "remove less" from the sound.


----------



## aluren

i see... i always thought the more caps the better. thanks for the info.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aluren* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i see... i always thought the more caps the better. thanks for the info._

 

It's weird, on 8/19/07 I was the newbie buying your Tomahawk as my first amp my first week here at head-fi, and now I'm the teacher 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 At the same time - between 8/19/07 and 8/23/07 - I bought the PenguinAmp Royal, iBasso D1 DAC/amp, 2 LOD, HD600, PX100, HFI-700DVD and Shure E500 - Yikes, that is scary! $1250 in 5 days.

 Oh My - on 8/25/07 I bought CX300 and then the next day a JSEABER cmoy bass boost and PMX100, then Vintage Sony D-5 for $200 the day after that, and iRiver H120 the day after that, then I bought a second iRiver and Sony D-25s the day after that, and the day after that I got another vintage D-50, then an ALO cryo LOD and Sony D-NE20 optical out PCDP the day after that, and three days later bought new Super.fi 5 Pro. Another $1250 in just a few days.

 It's all your fault because you were my first pusher, errr... I mean seller. I must have gone nutz that whole 2 weeks back then, huh? Oh wait, I'm out $25,000 since Aug 2007. Man, you owe me...


----------



## Rico67

If you link one cap+a second cap, filtration result 'll be less than the lower cap in your system, so sound won't be Good with a lake of some frequencies.


----------



## aluren

wow, i didn't that was you i was chatting with on msn! good to know! $25,000 already? i wish i had that much to spend. you blame me, i blame ray! he's got us all worked up over this amp stuff.


----------



## Nocturnal310

One thing i noticed they never mention the Specs of the DAC's built into portable amps.


 for example ZERO is 24bit/192khz.

 but how about these amps?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nocturnal310* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One thing i noticed they never mention the Specs of the DAC's built into portable amps.


 for example ZERO is 24bit/192khz.

 but how about these amps?_

 

It is assumed that any USB DAC is 16/48 max native input (except for DAC1 which can do 24/96 via USB with ASIO4ALL).


----------



## jamato8

More images with my favorite small digital camera case that works out perfect with an iRiver H120 or 140 and the Predator.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_More images with my favorite small digital camera case that works out perfect with an iRiver H120 or 140 and the Predator. 









_

 

Jam, now you need to upgrade the phone! I have a Verizon Cherry Chocolate with extended battery I'll sell you.


----------



## jamato8

Always the wise guy. . 






 ok, how much. lol


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Always the wise guy. . 






 ok, how much. lol_

 

For you? 








 Even trade, T4 for Chocolate, and I'll throw in a case, a USB data cable, 1Gb microDS, wall charger, and adapter plug to use wired headphones instead of A2DP bluetooth (or I can throw in Bluetooth stereo phones too).


----------



## SierraHotel01

Jamato8: great minds think alike!

 The Lowepro Apex30 case is just about perfect for an iPod + Tomahawk (or Predator) + ALO LOD.

 Don't leave home without it.


----------



## jamato8

Yes, the case works great. Just enough padding for protection but still small enough to be out of the way.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

So, I guess the trade is off?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, I guess the trade is off?_

 

I would not want to deprive you of your phone. I would feel very bad. 

 I am using the UM2's with the Predator, that I am leaving on, and I must say the sound is much better with the 2's than in the past. The highs are nice and there is a decent bass foundation. The low gain position allows for volume control travel that does not hit you all at once with too much. Very nice.


----------



## Space Action Hero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *anadin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the Predator capable of driving the Denon AH-D2000 to a good level using both its DAC and amp.

 If anyone has any experience of this combo I welcome your thoughts._

 

What about the D5000s? I'm eyeing a D5000/Preddie combi for my Macbook Pro. Will that work well?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would not want to deprive you of your phone. I would feel very bad. 

 I am using the UM2's with the Predator, that I am leaving on, and I must say the sound is much better with the 2's than in the past. The highs are nice and there is a decent bass foundation. The low gain position allows for volume control travel that does not hit you all at once with too much. Very nice._

 

Actually, I upgraded to an LG9400 with wireless TV, so the Cherry Chocolate is not being used...


----------



## RPT1778

Hello all!







I have joined the masses of "won't settle for crap ever again" Head-Fi-ers, and after much research on these boards and a conversation with RSA, I jumped in head first with a Predator, HD650 (my own) and HD600 (loaners from my brother to try out)... My brother has a degree in Sound Engineer and Audio Recording and worked at Telarc for many years and his opinion of the HD600s was nothing short of the best of the best compared to other headphones he had tried, which I'm not sure he would remember although I'll be talking to him tonight so I'm excited to hear what his memories are of his time at Telarc with respect to these...

 I'm still waiting for the 650 to arrive, but in the meantime, I have the true and deep deep pleasure of listening to the Predator / HD600 combo, which is without exception to me "Aural Sex". Even though its only been about 1/2 hour since getting it, and I'm 499 1/2 hours short of being broken in, I'm am speechless!! Add to that the fact that I'm listening to iTunesPlus 256kbps music, and I can say without a doubt, I have never heard a fraction of the things I am hearing today... Led Zeppelin's "Babe I'm Gonna Leave You" at 1:45 has an incredibly subtle background vocal by Robert Plant, that I never knew existed before... It made me jump out of my seat, and when I rewound to make sure it wasn't my mind playing tricks on me, I was beyond convinced to the SQ difference between anything i've heard or had before and the Predator and HD600 combo. Before this revelation, I thought my Shure e5c's were the end all IEM... time to revisit those with a more discerning ear now too, LOL...

 To say I'm pleased is an understatement and I really appreciate having a place like this to share my thoughts, ideas and most importantly hearing other people's as well...

 To that end, I'd like to know what the proper break-in procedure would be for the amp, and if headphones need to be broken in too, or just the amp.

 I tried searching, but didn't see anything that was obvious to me, but it seems like from various posts here and there you just play music or test noises though everything. Would I also want to give everything a rest every once in a while?

 Your guidance is much appreciated and I'm stoked to be part of the community!






Best to all!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 RPT

 Richard


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I usually just play music through mine to break it in, at normal volumes with the headphones under a pillow. The Predator sounded much better by 350 hours, even better at 600 and best by 1,000 hours - but most people could stop at 350-600 hours and just use it normally after that.


----------



## The Monkey

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RPT1778* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Add to that the fact that I'm listening to iTunesPlus 256kbps music, and I can say without a doubt, I have never heard a fraction of the things I am hearing today... Led Zeppelin's "Babe I'm Gonna Leave You" at 1:45 has an incredibly subtle background vocal by Robert Plant, that I never knew existed before... I'm stoked to be part of the community!






Best to all!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 RPT

 Richard_

 

It's awesome when you pick up layers and sounds that you've never heard before in your favorite tunes. Welcome to head-fi and sorry about your wallet.


----------



## xcluded

wish to check , does the predator have any history/problems driving any demanding headphones?

 thanks.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *xcluded* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_wish to check , does the predator have any history/problems driving any demanding headphones?

 thanks._

 

I can't really drive my 600 ohm AKG K240M to more than conversational volume and nothing spectacular sounding with that headphone. It also can't drive a heavily dampened SFI orthodynamic custom headphone, but then again almost no portable amp can drive those two except the TTVJ portable millett hybrid tube amp (Pico in second, followed by Vivid V1).

 Everything else seems to be fine. It sounds great with my 300 ohm HD600 and can play moderately loud but cannot play them as loudly as many other portables like TTVJ, 3MOVE, Pico, iBasso D3, or Vivid V1. It will play approximately as loud as other amps like D2 Boa, D2 viper stock, or Nuforce Icon, which are acceptable volume levels for listening but not rocking out. However, it will go quite loud and clean and controlled with Denon D2000, Edition 9 and Grado RS-1. So, I think it is fine for almost anything between 16-300 ohm except those 120 ohm orthodynamics which would be fine on a speaker amp.


----------



## Tiyako

hey guys! i'm new to portable amps...anychance you can tell me the method to break it in? connecting to it the charger and play it for hours and hours with pink noise? at low gain , mid , or high gain?Sorry...i'm just pretty clueless


----------



## xcluded

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can't really drive my 600 ohm AKG K240M to more than conversational volume and nothing spectacular sounding with that headphone. It also can't drive a heavily dampened SFI orthodynamic custom headphone, but then again almost no portable amp can drive those two except the TTVJ portable millett hybrid tube amp (Pico in second, followed by Vivid V1).

 Everything else seems to be fine. It sounds great with my 300 ohm HD600 and can play moderately loud but cannot play them as loudly as many other portables like TTVJ, 3MOVE, Pico, iBasso D3, or Vivid V1. It will play approximately as loud as other amps like D2 Boa, D2 viper stock, or Nuforce Icon, which are acceptable volume levels for listening but not rocking out. However, it will go quite loud and clean and controlled with Denon D2000, Edition 9 and Grado RS-1. So, I think it is fine for almost anything between 16-300 ohm except those 120 ohm orthodynamics which would be fine on a speaker amp._

 

Thanks for the insight.

 Btw , do you think this amp can drive Beyerdynamic DT 880 (250 ohm) with ease ?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *xcluded* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the insight.

 Btw , do you think this amp can drive Beyerdynamic DT 880 (250 ohm) with ease ?_

 

It should. Anyone here with those who can comment?


----------



## RPT1778

I've been running the Predator and HD600s now for coming up on 24 hours straight and I'm wondering whether I want to let them rest overnight, or should I just let it rip through the 500 hours with no breaks?

 WOW, the amp is definitely like a great wine... gets better with age!

 RPT


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Jamato8 claims that a 1 hour break with the amp off each day will help the caps form faster. I don't have any idea if that makes a difference.


----------



## RPT1778

much appreciated, I'll give her the evening off then.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RPT1778* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_much appreciated, I'll give her the evening off then._

 

I just turn amp off a couple of hours.


----------



## jc9394

Hi Jamato8, How does Predator compare to SR-71A? Which amp to recommend to get Mustang or Predator if you have SR-71A?


----------



## xcluded

after reading much reviews on mustang...before plunging myself into buying

 yeah i wish to know as well , whether the predator sounds inferior to mustang in terms of low , mid and high ?


----------



## jb_alphamale

My predator is 1 year old and more than 1000 h on it. The DAC works perfect and the sound is great. The battery never gets empty. My only remark would be that the volume know is hissing when you turn it but only when you turn it. That's it, in rest I'm loving it. Do not expect huge amplification with high impedance cans. At the end is only a small portable amp.


----------



## Eagle Eye

Hey Jamato8 one quick questions. Where did you get that case and how can I order one?


----------



## jamato8

It depends upon where you are. I got it at REI. It is a Lowepro apex 20 AW. It even has a little cover that can pop out and cover the case to make is water proof!


----------



## Eagle Eye

Thanks so much for the reply. I will have to order one. Thanks again really enjoy all your postings and the way you so willingly share your knowledge.


----------



## LionPlushie

sorry for bumping this thread but jamato, how does it compare to the Xin Reference now that both are well-burned in?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LionPlushie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sorry for bumping this thread but jamato, how does it compare to the Xin Reference now that both are well-burned in?_

 

I don't know as I haven't heard the latest Reference. My Reference is a number of generations old now, which can happen over a few months. :^)

 The Reference has always been very open sounding. I would like to hear the latest version but I am not sure what that is. If it, the Reference, continues down the same path, I would expect the Reference to sound a little more open when compared to the Predator. But that is speculation. Also, I find that if the Predator is left on all the time, it sounds its best and is very enjoyable.


----------



## LionPlushie

how about the bass from reference compare to predator?

 thinking of getting either a reference or predator. by the way im a basshead.


----------



## jamato8

I don't know, I haven't heard the latest Reference. It has always been clean and not emphasized but I can't say on the newest Reference as I haven't heard it.


----------



## RockinCannoisseur

predator vs d4 anyone? vs dac?


----------



## DOTTORWALKMAN

Hello jamato8,
  I wanted to ask an opinion on the Predator only with respect to the analog section (excluding the function DAC) would like to know if the analog section is excellent as the DAC section. Also how is the sound quality , for example, versus the P-51 Mustang.
  Thanks.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





dottorwalkman said:


> Hello jamato8,
> I wanted to ask an opinion on the Predator only with respect to the analog section (excluding the function DAC) would like to know if the analog section is excellent as the DAC section. Also how is the sound quality , for example, versus the P-51 Mustang.
> Thanks.


 
  The Predator is very smooth and analog like. The P-51 takes this up a notch with more dynamics and bass control.


----------



## DOTTORWALKMAN

Hello Jamato8,
  I thank you for giving me reply. But since I use the translator of google, I do not think I understood your answer. Do you mean that the P-51 has more dynamic and more bass control? You can give one vote for make me understand? For example:
  Sound quality from analog input:
  Predator: 9
  P-51: 10
  I understand you correctly?


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





dottorwalkman said:


> Hello Jamato8,
> I thank you for giving me reply. But since I use the translator of google, I do not think I understood your answer. Do you mean that the P-51 has more dynamic and more bass control? You can give one vote for make me understand? For example:
> Sound quality from analog input:
> Predator: 9
> ...


 
  Yes.


----------



## DOTTORWALKMAN

Ray Samuels said that the Predator and the P-51 are built with the same components and the same quality (except of course DAC).
  How is it possible that the P-51 sounds better than of the Predator?


----------



## jamato8

All I know is what I hear. Why ask me if you already have the answer?


----------



## DOTTORWALKMAN

Because they are a repair technician, mechanical and electronic. 
  I always look for logical answers. 
  I asked Ray Samuels that there were differences between the Predator and the P-51. He answered that the two amplifiers are identical to components and quality. So it is logical that they should have the same sound quality. 
  However, I think, it is likely that if you have implemented some differences in favor of the P-51, these can be caused by tolerances of the specific examples you heard. Most likely, listening to another Predator in comparison with another P-51, the result could be different. Even reversed. 
  Do not you think?


----------



## jamato8

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/214588/review-portable-amp-roundup-56-portable-amps-reviewed-and-compared-final-update-12-20-10-added-rsa-sr-71b
   
  Here, someone that has reviewed both amps. Page down.


----------



## DOTTORWALKMAN

Thank you very much.


----------



## Tinola

Sorry to revive this thread, but is this amp still relevant???


----------



## jamato8

That is up to you and your ears. I guess it is relevant enough to revive the thread. :^)


----------



## ksk75

Thank you for everyone for sharing your experience.
It was this forum that mainly led me to buy one rsa predator.
Sorry for the off,
But I got a probem I wonder maybe someone can help me.
I bought the rsa predator second hand, that time I didn't have a hifi headphone so I tried with a skullcandy aviator it seemd okay together.
A few days later I bought a sennheiser hd650.
When I try to use on hi gain with line out and I turn a volume up it's just around 65% there is a creaking sound.
Especially the deep section suffers.
I tooke the amp apart and as I saw the on battery; replacement for ipod 3rd generation.
Is that his battery?
Thanks in advance.


----------



## Ray Samuels

Quote: 





ksk75 said:


> Thank you for everyone for sharing your experience.
> It was this forum that mainly led me to buy one rsa predator.
> Sorry for the off,
> But I got a probem I wonder maybe someone can help me.
> ...


 
  The Predator was designed for low impedance headphones & IEMs. When pairing it with HD600, 300 ohms, high impedance headphones, the battery voltage, 3.7, is not sufficient enough to play at "high gain" the headphones that was not designed for that's why you get that clipping noise. If you want the amp that can do HD600 well, the the Intruder is the answer.
  Ray Samuels


----------



## ksk75

Thank you the information.
(I am ashamed)
I think I try to buy something desktop amp/dac.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





ksk75 said:


> Thank you the information.
> (I am ashamed)
> I think I try to buy something desktop amp/dac.


 
  A great portable headphone and one that works well with the Predator are the Koss PortaPros. There are simple modifications to the portapros that open up the sound from them more. To me, they are an exceptional bargain and a great portable phone for little money. They are better than many phones costing much more and hold up better and. . . they come with a lifetime warranty that Koss stands behind.


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## ksk75

Thank you very much. I'll check that.


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## Mo Killah

Hello Ray, If you are there, I was wondering what you think about the JH13Pro and Predator pairing?


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## ksk75

Hi,

Interested as well, 

Thanks


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## ksk75

Hi

I just jumped for a sennheiser IE80 that was a clearance at the shop. 
With the RSA just so sweet.... 
Actually I like better than my HD 650 (ok I don't have a proper dac yet) and the portability is a huge + for me. 
So just thanks for those guys who's wrote about that amp/dac. They lead me to buy


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## FangJoker

Why is thread dead?  Is there another predator thread?  I really like mine.


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## jamato8

Just this one. Don't know why there isn't more input. The one constant is change.


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## scottcw

Zombie alert... I recently purchased a Predator, tried to hook it up to my iPod 6 with a CCK and got the dreaded, "The connected USB device requires too much power" message.
  
 Please tell me there is a solution other than added a powered hub to the already unwieldy cables.


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## scottcw

I posted a comparison of the Predator's amp section to the Apex Glacier - http://www.head-fi.org/t/768091/a-noob-reviews-ray-samuels-and-apex-glacier-content


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## Mmet

now ... i am a new second owner of the Predator ^_^ ..... i bought it in a near mint condition from the respectful seller 
@eeyssjr .... he is very respectful and helpful seller on head-fi .... he sold me the predator at a near mint condition .... he told me that the predator had approximately 50 hours of playback .

 MY VERY FIRST AND INITIAL IMPRESSIONS :
First time i opened the box i saw the adapter and didn't see the amp !!  it is very tiny ... really tiny ... the build quality is the best i've seen ( it is my first high end amp i had before a Fiio E11  ) and the color is awesome .. it is black but not that black ! ... under certain light condition it gives like a very dark purple color ! very elegant  

now i am at home ... connected it through the mini USB cable to my PC ... installed and appeared immediately ... set it on high gain and connected it to my AKG K171 mkII .... VERY INEFFICIENT headphone with somewhat medicore sound quality and bright treble - most of time fatiguing with light bass and leaving it now burning in as i've red the full thread and know that burning in that amp is very important .....

from the first brief peak to the sound : i hear distortion and driver crackling ... compressed sound from that headphone with the amp .... BUT heard too a more definition for details ( like that background sounds jumped up and became more clear !! ) and first time i get a respectful bass from these headphones too ... it is about 30 seconds of listening only so .. don't bother.

i will hold for now .... and will write my full impression soon with my main iem that i use it all the time SE535 ....


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## jamato8

mmet said:


> now ... i am a new second owner of the Predator ^_^ ..... i bought it in a near mint condition from the respectful seller
> @eeyssjr .... he is very respectful and helpful seller on head-fi .... he sold me the predator at a near mint condition .... he told me that the predator had approximately 50 hours of playback .
> 
> MY VERY FIRST AND INITIAL IMPRESSIONS :
> ...


 

 I look forward to your impressions. Needs more time on it for sure. It will open up more, etc.


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## Mmet

jamato8 said:


> I look forward to your impressions. Needs more time on it for sure. It will open up more, etc.



Where is the bass now ??!!  I left it burning in from yesterday and at work right now ... I found it a bot brighter than I played it for the first time!


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## jamato8

mmet said:


> Where is the bass now ??!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 If it only had 50 hours on it, it will take some time to even out. I didn't find the bass to really come back until around 300 hours and longer. It took some time for all of the frequencies to blend well.


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## Mmet

DAMN !! .. DAMN !! ... it must be my brain playing tricks or so !!! .... this thing really make changes !! sometimes have a veil and slightly excessive warmer tone ... then it cleared up and the background reverb come clear immediately just right now !! .. in my ears ! .... was feeling sleepy with the iems in my ears .... what happen makes me awake again ... and started the list from the beginning to listen to it again with that new change !  





side note : don't know what is wrong with head -fi right now .... want to post photos and use emoticons ... but there is no option for that right now !!! .... just plank replay window without any options ! 
EDIT : never mind ... just changed the browser


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## Mmet

charging the predator today and noticed strange thing ! ... the adapter light when put it in the wall wart is red ... the first time i charged the predator the light of the adapter was green !!


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## jamato8

mmet said:


> charging the predator today and noticed strange thing ! ... the adapter light when put it in the wall wart is red ... the first time i charged the predator the light of the adapter was green !!


 

 It was green because it was already charged. It is now red because the battery was low enough to need a charge. it will turn green when charged.


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## Mmet

jamato8 said:


> It was green because it was already charged. It is now red because the battery was low enough to need a charge. it will turn green when charged.


 
 thanks a lot ... yes it already turned green when i saw it now .... this amp sounds marvelous already now ... my friend ( not involved in audio thing like me  )  i told him to listen and he was skeptical about the difference he would perceive ....  puts the iems into his ears ... selected a track ... play ... then his jaw dropped *literally* !!


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## Mmet

about 3 days of burning in right now ... at high gain and mostly full volume ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 here is my current source : sony walkman A 10


  


 i have also as sources : Fiio X3 first gen and ipod touch 4g ( which i hate its sound but with the predator it is kinda bearable now even without the full burning in of the amp  ! )


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## Mmet

now about 150 hours ... well ... there is no special bass till now ... there is a fairly powerful impact yes but not extending very deep ... the sound is kinda bright ... the details are great and vocals are great too .... overly satisfied but not amazed .... i think i will hold for after 300 hours mark to post my full impressions 

EDIT : This thing is wild !


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## Mmet

today i find the mids are forward now .. in a good way ... the bass is good .. impact full but somewhat behind vocals now ... the real deal now is details i rediscover my old music right now  .. a new line of sounds in each song appear now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  
 UPDATE : just before 300 hours by about 50 hours or so the trebles became really present .. i don't remember getting that treble from SE535 ! and most of female vocals became slightly sibilant !
  
  
 UPDATE 2 : This thing sounds really fatiguing right now ! mostly light bass except for bass heavy tracks and it only have a good punch but nothing amazing ... burning in continues lets see how far this amp can go ........


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## Mmet

After 300 hours of burning in 
  
 don't know how does it happen ... i left the amp as usual playing and my last experience the the sound was piercing and fatiguing with almost no bass ... kinda messy sound and to be honest i kinda messed my previous Fiio E11 ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ... decided to leave it playing and not listening to it again unless 400 hours pass as the sound was annoying  ... as it sounds that messy at about 250 hours or more and i was skeptical that will be a dramatic change in these few hours left around the 300 mark .
  
 today back from work ... setting behind it and the in ears was playing loudly beside me.. so i could hear them and felt that the sound is strange somehow !! so decided to give it a try ......

 The sound amazingly *smoothed out* .. like cream ! ... the piercing sound absolutely changed  and this is not a placebo thing  ... the difference is like it is not the same device that i was listening to the last time !!
  
the bass has now a bit of depth to it with very good impact ..not that superficial bass any more and blending well with different genera ... very smooth but not big bass .. now it is normal or above normal a little
  
  mids really smoothed out and not that forward any more ... the sibilance *mostly *gone ... still there but not jumping at my face now
  
 although the device now feels very little warmness but the treble is just right for me it is not forward now nor very recessed
  
 i don't detect any improvements in terms of sound stage or separation from the day i got it .... just the messy time it has the last two listening sessions then it back to normal again ... may be because i am using mainly an iem ? don't know
  
 Long story short : i have difficulty now to put it down from my ears 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and i am very happy  ... just worry if i will face some critical periods after that awesome 300 mark  .....


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## jamato8

mmet said:


> After 300 hours of burning in
> 
> don't know how does it happen ... i left the amp as usual playing and my last experience the the sound was piercing and fatiguing with almost no bass ... kinda messy sound and to be honest i kinda messed my previous Fiio E11 !
> 
> ...


 

 That is how it goes. :^)


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## Mmet

Now i am in the range of 500 -600 h ... the smoothness continues to increase ... the amp now has noticeably more dynamics and great clarity ... but the bass ... mmm ... well it has a slightly more punch and extension than without the amp... impressive with some songs .. not with others ... it is good but not that impressive in terms of quantity ( regarding that i was looking for a bass boost amp before )... may be i had an high expectations in that regard .... i hoped that that amp makes my shures fuller and heavier in bass ... don't know if continuing burning in would bring more bass or not   !!! 



Aside from the sound impressions and wishes ... i have a different opinion than @jamato8
 about the build quality of that amp .... the build quality is really good ... but not optimum for 2 reasons : 

1- a couple of days ago i had a really bad surprise .... the printing on the top of the amp slightly erased !!! that was shocking and hard to swallow from a 500 $ amp  ... and that was the first time i use the amp at a short travel ... and in its supplied protective pouch ! and the erasing of the printing was because .......... its protective pouch !!!! ... not kidding ... the pouch is very soft and smooth from the out side ... but the inner side was fairly rough to act as a sandpaper against the amp with the movements in my bag  :confused_face_2:  ... unfortunately my discovery came a bit late  .


don't know what is the method of printing on the body of an amp and i am not expert ... but i have a fiio x3 player which had really bad time with me for about a year and half now without any sign of erasing and it is about half of the price and had a Fiio E11 .. owned it for 2 years and sold it without a sign of fading on the printing ! and after searching a little it is a fairly common problem with RSA amps ..don't know why  ... may be some people don't care about that too much but i do .

2- the volume knob is making scratchy sounds when moving it ... some times don't ....
that one don't annoy me too much .. as it is a problem with nearly all analog pots out there and kinda expected ... and disappear once i stop turning the pot ......

By the way the channel balance of the volume knob is _*really*_ great ... i don't have any channel imbalance with it at all with my iem at really low volumes ... tight and steady rotation with very firm feeling .. impressive .


i think this is enough for now  

Oh forgot to mention ... The sound stage is very spacious now and separation improved

UPDATE : 20 / 11

the amp come now to the real life .... now it has its own sound signature and it is unique .... dark sound with a beautiful bass ... the sound comes thick and full and very big ... VERY VERY BIG in my iems .... i put it in my ears about 7 hours today in my travel ....


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## Mmet

one strange notice and it deserves a separate post : at the beginning of my travel today ... when i started to listen to my music ... the first *half hour or so* the sound was bright !! ... then it transforms to the sound that described above !! 
 is that normal or do that giant cap require warming up or so like tubes ??? 
 or this is because i didn't finish yet the burning in of +600 hours period ?


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## jlingo

mmet said:


> one strange notice and it deserves a separate post : at the beginning of my travel today ... when i started to listen to my music ... the first *half hour or so* the sound was bright !! ... then it transforms to the sound that described above !!
> is that normal or do that giant cap require warming up or so like tubes ???
> or this is because i didn't finish yet the burning in of +600 hours period ?


 

 Correct Predator needs hundreds of hours of breaking in!


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## Koolpep

On a recent meet up I listened to and subsequently purchased this little classic. 
  
 I really love it's sound signature.
  
 The seller didn't have the charger with him, so I read about the warning to only use the supplied charger. In case I can't get the charger - what are the specs, so I can hunt one down....
  
 Cheers,
 K


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## Mmet

koolpep said:


> On a recent meet up I listened to and subsequently purchased this little classic.
> 
> I really love it's sound signature.
> 
> ...


 
 IN : 110 - 240 v
 OUT : 4.2 v DC   0.8A 
  
*BUT please if you are interested in the Predator.. contact Ray first ... as it is highly recommended to use the supplied charger only *


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## Koolpep

mmet said:


> IN : 110 - 240 v
> OUT : 4.2 v DC   0.8A
> 
> *BUT please if you are interested in the Predator.. contact Ray first ... as it is highly recommended to use the supplied charger only *


 

 Hi!
  
 Thanks a lot for this info!
  
 Gladly I just got the original charger from the seller. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Many thanks for your response.
  
 Cheers,
 K


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## Mmet

koolpep said:


> Hi!
> 
> Thanks a lot for this info!
> 
> ...


 
 congratulations ^_^ .... looking for your impressions too .... i am waiting for my full review till the end of burning in process .... but right now it sounds really nice combined with my Walkman A-10 and even nicer through its own DAC from my laptop


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## Koolpep

mmet said:


> congratulations ^_^ .... looking for your impressions too .... i am waiting for my full review till the end of burning in process .... but right now it sounds really nice combined with my Walkman A-10 and even nicer through its own DAC from my laptop


 

 I am pretty impressed with this little love bug (mine is red). I am just listening to the HE-560 on it. And it drives it quite nicely - which I didn't expect. I used the RHA T20 in the office and I really loved what I heard. But now on high gain with the Hifiman's - I thought the Predator would run out of steam but at my listening levels, not so.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 More to come but so far: this will be for sure my new travel companion. Checking with the Oppo PM-3 next - should be an ideal combination as well.
  
 Cheers,
 K


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## Mmet

koolpep said:


> I am pretty impressed with this little love bug (mine is red). I am just listening to the HE-560 on it. And it drives it quite nicely - which I didn't expect. I used the RHA T20 in the office and I really loved what I heard. But now on high gain with the Hifiman's - I thought the Predator would run out of steam but at my listening levels, not so.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 CHEEERS


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## Koolpep

mmet said:


> CHEEERS


 

 Medium Gain settings - Predator and Oppo PM-3 are a match made in heaven. A perfect symbiosis. Soundstage is great, overall sound quality amazing. Brings out the low end so well on these headphones - lovely pairing.
  
 What a great purchase  - tonight - testing the PM-2 -


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## Mmet

koolpep said:


> Medium Gain settings - Predator and Oppo PM-3 are a match made in heaven. A perfect symbiosis. Soundstage is great, overall sound quality amazing. Brings out the low end so well on these headphones - lovely pairing.
> 
> What a great purchase  - tonight - testing the PM-2 -


 
 still burning it in ... no much difference right now .. not like the crazy period between 200 and 450 hours


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## Mmet

Over a year now owning this awesome device .. must say it even if this an older thread and so ... this dac-amp is nothing short of marvelous !
 the sound .. the battery .. the build

 OMG till now i am more than happy and getting excited every time i switch it on ...  with every iem or headphone i through in it it gives the best of them out ... this thing has a character and it is *dominant*  ... i love that sound till the degree till now i am hesitating to upgrade my source or get a new player as its sound made most of my upgrade decisions a nonsense and impulsive decisions..

 this signature that what i was looking for times a go and i know that the Predator is a keeper for life and if .. just if i wanted to upgrade i know it will be RSA amp too .. that won't be an upgrade to get a better sound but to get another premium quality thing from Ray samuels audio .

 i know my post sounds fan-ish and it meant to be ... and yes i am a fan now and it meant to be ... 

  can't Thank @Ray Samuels enough for this awesome joy box 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 and i thank the people here for the burning in tip 
  
 I am really happy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









  

  

 this is how i use it all the time BTW


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## novacav (Dec 11, 2017)

So I'm thinking about treating myself to one of these for the holidays. I've always wanted one.

But....

I don't mind spending the money, but I really don't wanna drop $475 if Predator has since been outclassed by some $100 Fiio or something. Meanwhile, while devices like the Chord Mojo are all the rage, I've always been skeptical that they're *actually* that much better than an RSA Intruder say, or Predator for lower impedance gear.

I know replies to this will be "your own ears have to decide," I understand that, but I don't really have a way to compare or even hear a Predator in advance.

Anyway, thoughts on the relevancy of this dac/amp in 2017 are much appreciated. I'll return the favor with impressions if I get one!

I owned a Schiit Fulla for a while and was pretty unimpressed, I also own an ODAC/O2 amp, which I love.


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## drummerdimitri

Sorry for reviving an ancient thread but I wanted to "rejuvenate" my predator by changing the lithium battery for a new one as I am sure it's lost much of its original capacity being around 10 years old now.

Does anyone know what the 15000 uF capacitor is used for? Is it for power reserve (large instantaneous current draw or for filtering?)

Would it make sense to switch it to a supercap since those are in the Farads? 

What do you think?


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## esn89

I think the predator came out in 2007 or 2008, I'm wondering in 2020, how relevant is this amp/dac still?  Is it outdated in terms of technology?  Are there better ones out there?


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