# Lotoo PAW S2 USB DAC AMP 150 mW@32 ohm 4.4 , MQA - New Firmware released 26 January  2.0.0.5 link added first post.



## musicday (Feb 1, 2022)

Lotoo released new PAW S2 USB DAC dongle that will follow after the huge success of the PAW S1 much loved by the audio community around the world.

This will likely be a direct competition to the also very popular and more powerful Luxury & Precision W2.
The price is 249 USD.

New firmware released 26 January   2.0.0.5
https://www.lotoo.cn/english/bottom/Service/Download/Hi_Fi_Music_Player/2021/0908/102.html

2.0.0.5
1. System stability improved.
2. Bug fix on some 96kHz files that have odd audio issues.


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## qua2k (Sep 8, 2021)

《 New Product Launch 》

Successor to the widely acclaimed PAW S1, the PAW S2 comes with an increased complement of a ground-breaking new circuit design, resultingly the performance achieved is awe-inspiring despite its diminutive size.

Powered by the now legendary AKM4377 DAC chip and coupled with the full suite of Lotoo’s advanced audio technologies, PAW S2 has raised the bar again for the ever portable, compact, dongle-style USB DACs.


HIGHLIGHTS

1. Superior sound technologies encased in a rugged but sleek design

2. High Resolution without high power consumption

3. New “Remote Control” feature & New OTG Cables available in two different lengths (65mm & 800mm); can be paired with the belt-clip

4. Potent enough to drive even demanding headphones

5. 4.4 Balanced & 3.5 Single-Ended Dual Outputs

6. MQA Certified


MSRP: USD249


For more information, please visit our website:
https://www.lotoo.cn/english/


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## someyoungguy

Here’s the specs from their WeChat account:


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## kadinh

Hmm

Would like to see a side by side comparison between the S1 and S2.


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## thiy71

everyone concern about emi issue..


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## someyoungguy

I see the S2 page is now up on their website: http://www.lotoo.cn/english/Hi_Fi_Player/PAW_S2/

Strangely it doesn't look like much is different from the S1. The same DAC chip, same jitter reduction chip, EQ options seem the same (did the S1 have the Blackfin chip?, it isn't mentioned on the S1 page but is on the S2). Both made with CNC aluminium case, the same size. The S2 has an extra play/pause button and the cable might be a new iteration.

The specs are a little different. Power has increased a bit:

3.5mm: 70 mW/channel at 32 ohms up to 125 mW per channel at 32 ohms
4.4mm: 120 mW/channel at 32 ohms up to 150 mW per channel at 32 ohms
Noise floor is reduced a by 3 dBU on 3.5mm and 5 dBU on 4.4mm.

THD+noise is 1-3 dB lower on S2.

This picture makes me wonder whether they've incorporated extra EMI shielding inside the unit (the grey sheets on either side of the circuit board):


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## musicday

Not as powerful as the W2 but some people will consider that enough and the MQA decoding 4X is still there 
W2 230 mW @32 ohm 4.4
S2 150 mW @ 32 ohm 4.4


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## musicday

Just noticed like S1, the S2 can also be used with Nintendo Switch, PS5 etc. Great feature.


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## Renegadeblue

Any word on when this is supposed to be released? I was just looking to buy an S1 and then saw this. I guess this also explains why no one sells the Lotoo OTG lightning cable for iPhone anymore as it’s being replaced imminently.


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## musicday

Renegadeblue said:


> Any word on when this is supposed to be released? I was just looking to buy an S1 and then saw this. I guess this also explains why no one sells the Lotoo OTG lightning cable for iPhone anymore as it’s being replaced imminently.


Towards the end of the month should be available.


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## Renegadeblue

musicday said:


> Towards the end of the month should be available.


Was there some communication from Lotoo that specified this or just a best guess?  I’m guessing it’ll be sold through Musictek primarily like the S1?


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## cadgers

I hope it has a lot better shielding than the S1. I found it unusable on my iPhone. W2 has no issues with the same phone.


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## musicday

Musicteck will have it stock once is available. They are authorised Lotoo dealer.


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## Renegadeblue

cadgers said:


> I hope it has a lot better shielding than the S1. I found it unusable on my iPhone. W2 has no issues with the same phone.


That’s good to hear. I might look into the W2 then. I originally steered away from it because I saw a review from one of the major online publications that said the W2 did have issues with EMI interference from cellphones and also made a comment about some issues with the usb connection being recognized on a cellphone.


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## musicday

cadgers said:


> I hope it has a lot better shielding than the S1. I found it unusable on my iPhone. W2 has no issues with the same phone.


No worries now 🙂.


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## Renegadeblue

musicday said:


> No worries now 🙂.


But that’s just the OTG cable isn’t it? To prevent EMI interference issues from a cellphone my understanding is you would want internal shielding of the device components.


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## cadgers

musicday said:


> No worries now 🙂.



Changing the cable and even adding a firite choke made no difference on my S1 and iPhone. There was definitely a lack of shielding on the S1 itself.


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## ClieOS (Sep 9, 2021)

Still double amping the AK4377? Hmmm... I would have thought they would want to go for a true DAC + amp architecture setup this time. As good as S1 was, it was kinda almost immediately overshadowed by W2 (and rightfully so). To be honest, just by the early spec alone, I didn't see any new killer feature that justifies the 50% price hike from S1.


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## musicday

Renegadeblue said:


> But that’s just the OTG cable isn’t it? To prevent EMI interference issues from a cellphone my understanding is you would want internal shielding of the device components.


It will be alright. Check the photo.


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## musicday (Sep 10, 2021)

S2 will still be a great choice for anyone looking to pair it with a game console for example.


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## Giraffe Juice

someyoungguy said:


> Strangely it doesn't look like much is different from the S1. The same DAC chip, same jitter reduction chip, EQ options seem the same (did the S1 have the Blackfin chip?, it isn't mentioned on the S1 page but is on the S2). Both made with CNC aluminium case, the same size. The S2 has an extra play/pause button and the cable might be a new iteration.


I was wondering the same thing. I've had the PAW S1 for exactly one year (it does have a BF706 Blackfin DSP chip btw), so I was curious about what changes they're making so soon. 

On the surface there doesn't seem to be enough changes to justify a second edition, especially with a ~$80 increase in base price. The play/pause button makes me think they're improving the phone compatibility, not that I know there were problems to begin with. I'm already using it exclusively with my laptop, and I couldn't be more happy with the S1. Perhaps it would be a better option for someone looking for a new dongle, but I don't see enough changes for me to make an upgrade.


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## musicday

I think for someone who is using just IEMs the S2 is a great choice, especially with the new features and being able to connect it directly to Nintendo Switch etc


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## musicday

A seller mentioned the S2 will be released early October. Maybe I will get one as I am a Libra, lol.


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## povidlo

Available to order from hifigo:

https://hifigo.com/collections/new-arrival/products/lotoo-paw-s2

I don't think I'll be grabbing one, it's too similar to S1. Good to see EMI being addressed though, it's horrible on S1.


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## Giraffe Juice

povidlo said:


> Available to order from hifigo:
> 
> https://hifigo.com/collections/new-arrival/products/lotoo-paw-s2
> 
> I don't think I'll be grabbing one, it's too similar to S1. Good to see EMI being addressed though, it's horrible on S1.


Same. I wish they added a battery & Bluetooth or alternatively made it even more compact.
It's still a great option among dongles though. Since the power and (presumably) EMI are being addressed, I don't see it has any flaws.


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## musicday

Anyone ordered it? Is it really in stock?


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## dgjl

musicday said:


> Anyone ordered it? Is it really in stock?


Says 'pre-order'. Shipping end of September.


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## Lu88

musicday said:


> Anyone ordered it? Is it really in stock?


> Is it really in stock?
I don't think so.  Hifigo is not an authorized Lotoo retailer.
Even at the Lotoo official online store in China, S2 is not available yet.

FYI:
https://www.facebook.com/lotoopaw/posts/2985471261545844


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## musicday

I know about early October so definitely is not available now.


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## someyoungguy

It’s not available here in China in the Lotoo stores on JD or Taobao, which are the main online shopping apps. I don’t see any mention of release dates on their announcements so far.


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## H T T

cadgers said:


> Changing the cable and even adding a firite choke made no difference on my S1 and iPhone. There was definitely a lack of shielding on the S1 itself.


Not discounting your experience but I have had little to no EMI issues with my S1 and iPhone X. My FiiO Q2 and Q3 is a whole 'nother matter.


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## Lu88

S2 pre-order at MusicTeck (Type-C cable version)
https://shop.musicteck.com/collections/lotoo/products/lotoo-paw-s2

Lightning OTG cable (sold separately)
https://shop.musicteck.com/collecti...pe-c-otg-cable-for-paw-s2-type-c-to-lightning


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## musicday

I love the S1 and the W2 and probably I will end up getting the S2 also.
I like Lotoo and they provide quite regularly firmware updates.


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## rocketron

A new Cayin R2R dongle dac is coming next year.


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## musicday

rocketron said:


> A new Cayin R2R dongle dac is coming next year.


Let them come. The more the better. Maybe in few years time will indeed replace in a way the portable music players, with lots of power output and very low power consumption.


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## Ufanco

musicday said:


> I love the S1 and the W2 and probably I will end up getting the S2 also.
> I like Lotoo and they provide quite regularly firmware updates.


I also love the W2 but the belt clip and able to skip forward and backward and pause tracks is a interesting feature. I don’t use the W2 outside house so it might be useful with a phone source. Phone in pocket and S2 clipped to belt does sounds interesting.


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## NJoyzAudio

Lu88 said:


> S2 pre-order at MusicTeck (Type-C cable version)
> https://shop.musicteck.com/collections/lotoo/products/lotoo-paw-s2
> 
> Lightning OTG cable (sold separately)
> https://shop.musicteck.com/collecti...pe-c-otg-cable-for-paw-s2-type-c-to-lightning


Lu88

Thanks for posting the Pre-Order info!
Have been looking from time to time at Musicteck to see if a Pre-Order was announced, and missed checking yesterday so was good to see your post!

Have placed a pre-order
The Line Out feature really is what I'm after, and knowing it will have similar sound characteristics to the S1 I already own
Want the Line Out feature so I can pipe source content from my PC or Phone to my Cayin C9 
I love the Lotoo Sound Signature (own a PAW 6000 and a PAW S1) and its even better using Line Out/Pre-Amp mode from my PAW 6K,  but wanted an easier way to have a cabled Line Out from my computer or Phone without have to go to another standalone DAC device.
The S2 will fill the bill perfectly 

Thanks again for posting the pre-order info!


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## RSTA

Good morning.  Does anyone know where you can buy this and the lightning otg cable in the U.K.?


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## dgjl

RSTA said:


> Good morning.  Does anyone know where you can buy this and the lightning otg cable in the U.K.?


No where yet. Check above posts for pre-order information.


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## RSTA

Hi dgjl,
Thanks for your response, I know it’s not released yet but the previous preorder announcements are not from U.K. based dealers.  Want to buy domestically if I can and not have it ship internationally.


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## musicday

RSTA said:


> Hi dgjl,
> Thanks for your response, I know it’s not released yet but the previous preorder announcements are not from U.K. based dealers.  Want to buy domestically if I can and not have it ship internationally.


It's not going to be available in UK for a while.


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## MusicTeck

*Lotoo PAW S2 pre-orders are live @MusicTeck! Estimated shipping date: Early October*






*Lotoo PAW S2 pre-orders are live @MusicTeck!*


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## shawty552

A shame this appears to not have a customizeable parametric EQ, just like the S1. Would make this THE portable DAC.


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## musicday

shawty552 said:


> A shame this appears to not have a customizeable parametric EQ, just like the S1. Would make this THE portable DAC.


Yes I hear you and probably others would like same feature but the sound of S1 is well worth it and I expect the S2 to be even better in that regard. Also you still get MQA decoding, the W2 can't.


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## CANiSLAYu

rocketron said:


> A new Cayin R2R dongle dac is coming next year.


Source/details?


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## rocketron

Look at post 3025 on the usb -c dac find the best thread .


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## rocketron

Sorry post 3019


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## musicday

More shops seems to be taking pre-orders for the S2, but I will probably still end up getting it from Musicteck as I did the S1 and W2.


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## Decreate

Really interested in this but was wondering if I would need to unplug it from my phone if I needed to answer a call.


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## waveSounds

RSTA said:


> Good morning.  Does anyone know where you can buy this and the lightning otg cable in the U.K.?



Audio Concierge will almost certainly stock them when they're available over here. I bought my S1 there. Let's ask the man himself if he has an ETA:

@PhilW any idea on a date for us UK chaps?


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## musicday

Decreate said:


> Really interested in this but was wondering if I would need to unplug it from my phone if I needed to answer a call.


Not sure if it will work to take calls even if your headphones have built in microphone.


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## PhilW

waveSounds said:


> Audio Concierge will almost certainly stock them when they're available over here. I bought my S1 there. Let's ask the man himself if he has an ETA:
> 
> @PhilW any idea on a date for us UK chaps?



No date as yet but I do have them on order. Looking forward to these landing.


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## RSTA

Great thanks.  

@PhilW do you also have the lotoo lightning otg cable (that was pictured earlier in this thread) coming in?


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## PhilW

RSTA said:


> Great thanks.
> 
> @PhilW do you also have the lotoo lightning otg cable (that was pictured earlier in this thread) coming in?


 Need to check on this. I sold my last stock Monday.


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## RSTA

Ok thanks.  Also I wasn’t sure if the lotoo otg cable (marketing pic on page 1 of this thread) is a new version or one they sold previously.


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## musicday

I wonder what accessories will be included in the box, for the android version in my case. There are two different length cables available and the clip case to star with.


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## jwbrent

RSTA said:


> Ok thanks.  Also I wasn’t sure if the lotoo otg cable (marketing pic on page 1 of this thread) is a new version or one they sold previously.



It looks like the lightning cable for the S2 is different than the S1. Lotoo has redesigned the included cables to better shield any EMI/RFI. I use a choke on my S1 lightning cable that works great in getting rid of noise.

After looking at the S2 specs and comparing them to the S1, not a whole lot of difference other than output power. They both use the same AKM dac, have virtually the same feature set (other than some different eq/ate settings, and a remote button). I suppose the cradle for the S2 may come in handy for some, but not in my use case.

Since I only listen to iems, the extra power on the S2 isn’t important to me, so I’ll likely continue using my S1 with my iPad mini. But for those who are new to this fabulous little device, budget allowed, the S2 would be the way to go. Looking forward to impressions. ✌️


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## jsmiller58

jwbrent said:


> It looks like the lightning cable for the S2 is different than the S1. Lotoo has redesigned the included cables to better shield any EMI/RFI. I use a choke on my S1 lightning cable that works great in getting rid of noise.
> 
> After looking at the S2 specs and comparing them to the S1, not a whole lot of difference other than output power. They both use the same AKM dac, have virtually the same feature set (other than some different eq/ate settings, and a remote button). I suppose the cradle for the S2 may come in handy for some, but not in my use case.
> 
> Since I only listen to iems, the extra power on the S2 isn’t important to me, so I’ll likely continue using my S1 with my iPad mini. But for those who are new to this fabulous little device, budget allowed, the S2 would be the way to go. Looking forward to impressions. ✌️


What choke are you using?  The ones I have used haven’t really helped…


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## jwbrent (Sep 23, 2021)

jsmiller58 said:


> What choke are you using?  The ones I have used haven’t really helped…








This one is made by TDK. Prior to its use, I would get RF noise, afterwards, silence. ✌️

I believe how the S1 and its cable is positioned relative to a source device will make more of a difference than what brand of a ferrite core is used.


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## jsmiller58

jwbrent said:


> This one is made by TDK. Prior to its use, I would get RF noise, afterwards, silence. ✌️
> 
> I believe how the S1 and its cable is positioned relative to a source device will make more of a difference than what brand of a ferrite core is used.


Does your iPad have cellular built in?  I haven’t had any issues with WiFi interference, but cellular plays havoc…


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## jwbrent

jsmiller58 said:


> Does your iPad have cellular built in?  I haven’t had any issues with WiFi interference, but cellular plays havoc…



No cellular, that likely explains why it works fine for me.


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## 0RF30

I'm wondering, considering the dac chip used in S2 : AKM is back in business ?!


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## Gus141

I just pre-ordered the S2 from Musicteck after connecting my S1 to my iPad Pro and getting EMI or RFI when it was tucked behind the screen.  I hope the S2 solves this problem because I really love the S1 sound signature.


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## musicday (Sep 29, 2021)

Gus141 said:


> I just pre-ordered the S2 from Musicteck after connecting my S1 to my iPad Pro and getting EMI or RFI when it was tucked behind the screen.  I hope the S2 solves this problem because I really love the S1 sound signature.


I am sure the S2 will be s nice upgrade.


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## Lord Mike

Just pre-ordered mine from Jaben, who did a great discount which included expedited FedEx shipping to Melbourne. Cannot wait.


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## musicday

Lord Mike said:


> Just pre-ordered mine from Jaben, who did a great discount which included expedited FedEx shipping to Melbourne. Cannot wait.


How much if I can ask.


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## Lord Mike

musicday said:


> How much if I can ask.


Worked out to be about a $50SGD which essentially equates to 4-day FedEx delivery to Australia at no extra cost. I’ve bought from Jaben on numerous occasions before when they had a bricks & mortar store in Melbourne, so happy to support them again.


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## jwbrent

Gus141 said:


> I just pre-ordered the S2 from Musicteck after connecting my S1 to my iPad Pro and getting EMI or RFI when it was tucked behind the screen.  I hope the S2 solves this problem because I really love the S1 sound signature.



The new included cables were redesigned to eliminate the noise issue that plagued the S1 cables, so you should be good to go.


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## jsmiller58

jwbrent said:


> The new included cables were redesigned to eliminate the noise issue that plagued the S1 cables, so you should be good to go.


Was it the original cable that was the source of the issue, or lack of internal shielding in the S1?


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## jwbrent

jsmiller58 said:


> Was it the original cable that was the source of the issue, or lack of internal shielding in the S1?



From my experimentation with the S1, it was definitely the short cables. I ended up buying a choke which fully resolved the issue for me.


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## musicday

jwbrent said:


> The new included cables were redesigned to eliminate the noise issue that plagued the S1 cables, so you should be good to go.


Also looks that the S2 will draw less power while the output been increased.


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## jwbrent

musicday said:


> Also looks that the S2 will draw less power while the output been increased.



I hadn’t noticed that. One of the reasons I’ve decided not to upgrade was I figured there would be more power draw. The output power and the new cables, I thought, were the only difference between the S1 and S2.


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## musicday

jwbrent said:


> I hadn’t noticed that. One of the reasons I’ve decided not to upgrade was I figured there would be more power draw. The output power and the new cables, I thought, were the only difference between the S1 and S2.


I have the W2 and I really like it, I use it mainly with Windows 10 laptop, but I am considering to get the S2 to use with the phone on the go, if the power consumption is lower then S1 that was already great in this regard.


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## dgjl

musicday said:


> I have the W2 and I really like it, I use it mainly with Windows 10 laptop, but I am considering to get the S2 to use with the phone on the go, if the power consumption is lower then S1 that was already great in this regard.


Indeed. Pretty much all the really good DACs (e.g., W2, PEE51) are real battery hogs. If the S2 can come through with class-leading sound and low(ish) power, while sorting out the terrible interference of the S1, it's on to a winner.


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## musicday

Did anyone received the S2 yet?


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## twister6 (Oct 11, 2021)

jwbrent said:


> I hadn’t noticed that. One of the reasons I’ve decided not to upgrade was I figured there would be more power draw. The output power and the new cables, I thought, were the only difference between the S1 and S2.



On burn in now, will share sound impressions later.  BUT, adding full playback remote control is awesome!  Now you can change volume, skip tracks, and play/pause from S2 without a need to turn on your phone or tablet digging for playback app.  New cable, usb-c to usb-c otg is higher quality for sure, tighter fit of usb-c connectors.  New belt clip is really neat too, this way keeps S2 clipped to your pocket with a phone in the pocket and headphones connected to the top.  The size is the same and current draw is only 10mA higher.


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## MusicTeck

The S2 is now in stock at MusicTeck! 

https://shop.musicteck.com/products/lotoo-paw-s2?_pos=1&_sid=dcabd9798&_ss=r&variant=39593413705790


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## AlexaMan

I'm wondering about comparison between S2 vs S1 and also vs W2 of course


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## musicday

AlexaMan said:


> I'm wondering about comparison between S2 vs S1 and also vs W2 of course


S1 is too weak to consider. S2 and W2 are best.


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## NJoyzAudio

twister6 said:


> On burn in now, will share sound impressions later.  BUT, adding full playback remote control is awesome!  Now you can change volume, skip tracks, and play/pause from S2 without a need to turn on your phone or tablet digging for playback app.  New cable, usb-c to usb-c otg is higher quality for sure, tighter fit of usb-c connectors.  New belt clip is really neat too, this way keeps S2 clipped to your pocket with a phone in the pocket and headphones connected to the top.  The size is the same and current draw is only 10mA higher.


Twister6

Look forward to your review
Question:
Aside from testing as a straight DAC/AMP with IEM's/Headphones connected, will you also be testing the Line Out function with the Cayin C9?
This is the main reason I sold my PAW S1 to and have PAW S2 on its way in, but would love to hear your thought when used in this fashion.
My main reason for using this way, a quick and easy way to take streaming from a phone or Laptop and get it into the C9.
Thanks for letting me ask!


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## twister6

NJoyzAudio said:


> Twister6
> 
> Look forward to your review
> Question:
> ...



I need to confirm, but thought LO will be added in the next fw update.


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## NJoyzAudio

twister6 said:


> I need to confirm, but thought LO will be added in the next fw update.


Twister6

Thanks for the heads up!
It is something in their initial marketing it will be offered, but then again so was MQA support on S1 which did take a few FW revisions before it was available
Hoping it will be there from the start, but if it is future release, at least its there/planned, and the main reason upgraded from S1 to S2.  All other features were nice to haves, but the LO ability for me is the "must have" item and compelling reason to update.

Thanks again and do look forward to your review!


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## twister6

NJoyzAudio said:


> Twister6
> 
> Thanks for the heads up!
> It is something in their initial marketing it will be offered, but then again so was MQA support on S1 which did take a few FW revisions before it was available
> ...



The problem with MQA was outside of their control, they had to wait for a long time to be certified by a 3rd party.  Here, the hardware is in place, just need to finalize implementation in fw, so I hope it will be much sooner.


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## musicday

Any more impressions of the S2?
Looking forward 🙂.


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## twister6

musicday said:


> Any more impressions of the S2?
> Looking forward 🙂.



Will have some soon.  But as a spoiler, S2 approached W2 level of technical performance, close enough.  Even their pricing is the same if you factor in new Lotoo S2 lighting cable (also updated).  There is some difference in tonality, need to spend a little more time to collect my notes, but I think S2 might be edging W2 now out because it offers full remote control playback (play/pause/skip), carry on belt clip, and less current draw to make it friendlier with iPhones.


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## AlexaMan

twister6 said:


> Will have some soon. But as a spoiler, S2


Very intriguing spoiler . Looking forward for detailed feedback.


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## twister6 (Oct 13, 2021)

Another update.  Lotoo redesigned their usb-c to usb-c OTG cable, S2 comes with a short one and a long one, and has optional usb-c to lightning as well.  For those who are familiar with their original usb-c to lightning cable, it wasn't able to provide 5V to the dongle, only 3.85V.  Per my measurements, the new updated lighting OTG cable provides a solid 5V output.


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## cdanguyen08

twister6 said:


> Another update.  Lotoo redesigned their usb-c to usb-c OTG cable, S2 comes with a short one and a long one, and has optional usb-c to lightning as well.  For those who are familiar with their original usb-c to lightning cable, it wasn't able to provide 5V to the dongle, only 3.85V.  Per my measurements, the new updated lighting OTG cable provides a solid 5V output.


Love these updates. Patiently waiting for the whole review, as I need a dongle. Would definitely like to hear the pairing with the EVO compared to the W2. Just from the addition of the full remote control, it seems like a perfect portable solution.


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## NJoyzAudio

twister6 said:


> Another update.  Lotoo redesigned their usb-c to usb-c OTG cable, S2 comes with a short one and a long one, and has optional usb-c to lightning as well.  For those who are familiar with their original usb-c to lightning cable, it wasn't able to provide 5V to the dongle, only 3.85V.  Per my measurements, the new updated lighting OTG cable provides a solid 5V output.


Twister6

Thank you for these updates
UPS confirmed my PAW S2 is being delivered tomorrow, then burn in starts so between being able to test on my own and anxiously awaiting your full review, going to have something to look forward to!

TM


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## discord

twister6 said:


> Another update.  Lotoo redesigned their usb-c to usb-c OTG cable, S2 comes with a short one and a long one, and has optional usb-c to lightning as well.  For those who are familiar with their original usb-c to lightning cable, it wasn't able to provide 5V to the dongle, only 3.85V.  Per my measurements, the new updated lighting OTG cable provides a solid 5V output.



Does the USB-C to Lightning cable come with the S2?


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## twister6

discord said:


> Does the USB-C to Lightning cable come with the S2?



Optional accessory, Musicteck sells it separately. So, for example, W2 comes with both, but cost more. S2 cost less, but when you add lightning otg cable, the total price is the same.


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## musicday

For people using just single ended and IEMs I think the S2 will be a better choice compared to W2 because of the extra features.


----------



## twister6

musicday said:


> For people using just single ended and IEMs I think the S2 will be a better choice compared to W2 because of the extra features.



I have S2 and W2 in front of me, and S2 balance output has the same technical performance as W2.  The main sound difference, W2 is a little brighter, being slightly more revealing, while S2 tonality is more neutral, being slightly more natural in comparison.  The value/price is the same, while S2 draws less current and offers more features.  Lotoo tipped the scale in this comparison to W2.


----------



## docjlt

NJoyzAudio said:


> Lu88
> 
> Merci d'avoir posté les informations de précommande !
> J'ai regardé de temps en temps sur Musicteck pour voir si une pré-commande a été annoncée, et j'ai raté la vérification hier, donc c'était bon de voir votre message !
> ...


Good evening,
 I would like more details on the Line out function of the Paw S2.  I do not see anything on this subject in the description of the Paw S2 on the Lotoo site. Is this a reality or a future update will allow this function?  4.4mm and 3.5mm outputs are not mentioned as LO. Thanks for your answers and excuse my English.
Best regards.


----------



## twister6

docjlt said:


> Good evening,
> I would like more details on the Line out function of the Paw S2.  I do not see anything on this subject in the description of the Paw S2 on the Lotoo site. Is this a reality or a future update will allow this function?  4.4mm and 3.5mm outputs are not mentioned as LO. Thanks for your answers and excuse my English.
> Best regards.



According to Lotoo, LO functionality will be added in the future via fw.


----------



## docjlt

twister6 said:


> Selon Lotoo, la fonctionnalité LO sera ajoutée à l'avenir via fw.


Thanks. I am satisfied with my Paw S1, but this function will be interesting. Lotoo evolves well  its products 👍


----------



## musicday

twister6 said:


> I have S2 and W2 in front of me, and S2 balance output has the same technical performance as W2. The main sound difference, W2 is a little brighter, being slightly more revealing, while S2 tonality is more neutral, being slightly more natural in comparison. The value / price is the same, while S2 draws less current and offers more features. Lotoo tipped the scale in this comparison to W2.


For me as I use only the single ended (for now) 125mW is enough for IEMs. I loved the S1 but it was weak only 70 mW @ 32 ohm so I will definitely get the S2 for the other great features.
I still enjoy my W2 very much, but the S2 seems to be heading same direction and a bit further.
Will there be a leather or silicone case for the S2?


----------



## jsmiller58

twister6 said:


> I have S2 and W2 in front of me, and S2 balance output has the same technical performance as W2.  The main sound difference, W2 is a little brighter, being slightly more revealing, while S2 tonality is more neutral, being slightly more natural in comparison.  The value/price is the same, while S2 draws less current and offers more features.  Lotoo tipped the scale in this comparison to W2.


I have the S1 and W2.  Any reason to add the S2?  I understand the benefit of audio controls on the S2, but other than that any sound/performance benefits?


----------



## twister6

jsmiller58 said:


> I have the S1 and W2.  Any reason to add the S2?  I understand the benefit of audio controls on the S2, but other than that any sound/performance benefits?



If you don't care about audio playback controls, the only other reason to get S2 if you are using W2 and iPhone and it stutters at higher volume due to higher current draw of W2.


----------



## jsmiller58

twister6 said:


> If you don't care about audio playback controls, the only other reason to get S2 if you are using W2 and iPhone and it stutters at higher volume due to higher current draw of W2.


Thanks.  I use Android phones at the moment, so looks like I am covered for now.


----------



## pdxfletch

twister6 said:


> I have S2 and W2 in front of me, and S2 balance output has the same technical performance as W2.  The main sound difference, W2 is a little brighter, being slightly more revealing, while S2 tonality is more neutral, being slightly more natural in comparison.  The value/price is the same, while S2 draws less current and offers more features.  Lotoo tipped the scale in this comparison to W2.


And let’s not forget that you can upgrade the S2 on a Mac. It’s unfathomable that at the W2 price point, L&P can’t pay someone in China to develop a Mac program or some workaround that doesn’t entail me installing another OS on my computer.


----------



## musicday

jsmiller58 said:


> I have the S1 and W2.  Any reason to add the S2?  I understand the benefit of audio controls on the S2, but other than that any sound/performance benefits?


Paw S2 vs Paw S1​>Lotoo has redesigned the audio chipset for a better experience with lower distortion and darker background than the former model.

>Paw S2 has improved output power(150mW vs 125mW of S1).

>With redesigned electrical chipset, the power draw of S2 is lower than the S1.

>New added PMEQ and ATE presets.

>Longer, better quality cables.

>Out of the box MQA support(had to do firmware upgrade on S1 for it).


----------



## H T T (Oct 14, 2021)

twister6 said:


> Will have some soon.  But as a spoiler, S2 approached W2 level of technical performance, close enough.  Even their pricing is the same if you factor in new Lotoo S2 lighting cable (also updated).  There is some difference in tonality, need to spend a little more time to collect my notes, but I think S2 might be edging W2 now out because it offers full remote control playback (play/pause/skip), carry on belt clip, and *less current draw* to make it friendlier with iPhones.


I only have the "lowly" W1 and it is a battery hog. My S1 is much more mobile phone-friendly. $269 puts the S2 in a price range that gives me pause. I think, "a W3 is probably right around the corner". if I am spending that much for the S2, why not wait until the W3 is released to compare?. Then the new Earmen unit will be released soon...


----------



## jsmiller58

musicday said:


> Paw S2 vs Paw S1​>Lotoo has redesigned the audio chipset for a better experience with lower distortion and darker background than the former model.
> 
> >Paw S2 has improved output power(150mW vs 125mW of S1).
> 
> ...


I can see the S2 is a clear upgrade over the S1, but appears to be less so over the W2.  I do like the play controls on the S2 over the W2, but other than that (and MQA if you are into that), seems I am pretty well covered until the next great thing


----------



## jmwant

musicday said:


> Paw S2 vs Paw S1​>Lotoo has redesigned the audio chipset for a better experience with lower distortion and darker background than the former model.
> 
> >Paw S2 has improved output power(150mW vs 125mW of S1).
> 
> ...


Exactly what I was looking for! Thanks!


----------



## docjlt

P


twister6 said:


> Selon Lotoo, la fonctionnalité LO sera ajoutée à l'avenir via fw.


Hi, 
what exactly is LO functionality?  What does this change ?  If I now plug my Paw S2 into my headphone amplifier by setting the volume of the Paw S2 to the maximum, it will work like a simple dac. What will the update bring ?
Best regards.


----------



## Doug2507

Reduced power draw. Has this been checked out / compared? Are we gaining an extra few minutes of battery time or something more significant?


----------



## twister6

Doug2507 said:


> Reduced power draw. Has this been checked out / compared? Are we gaining an extra few minutes of battery time or something more significant?



Reduced current draw relative to what, S1?  Per my measurements, S2 draws about 10mA more than S1, as it should considering higher output power at max volume.  Relative to W2, it still draws less current.


----------



## littlenezt

twister6 said:


> I have S2 and W2 in front of me, and S2 balance output has the same technical performance as W2.  The main sound difference, W2 is a little brighter, being slightly more revealing, while S2 tonality is more neutral, being slightly more natural in comparison.  The value/price is the same, while S2 draws less current and offers more features.  Lotoo tipped the scale in this comparison to W2.


looking forward to your review especially compared to the W2 !


----------



## NinjaGirayaZ

twister6 said:


> Will have some soon.  But as a spoiler, S2 approached W2 level of technical performance, close enough.  Even their pricing is the same if you factor in new Lotoo S2 lighting cable (also updated).  There is some difference in tonality, need to spend a little more time to collect my notes, but I think S2 might be edging W2 now out because it offers full remote control playback (play/pause/skip), carry on belt clip, and less current draw to make it friendlier with iPhones.


Compared to S1, is the sound still warm and smooth?


----------



## Renegadeblue

Are you able to use aftermarket usb to lightning cables with the S2? For example do I really have to buy the lightning cable sold by MusicTek with this or can I use one of the highly recommended lightning cables people over using over in the W2 forum (like the ddhifi mfi06 or OEAudio lighting cables)?

I seem to remember reading somewhere the with the S1 you needed to use the Lotoo branded lightning cable in order for the device to work at all. If that’s still the case I’ll pass as I feel included accessories with any device are almost never very high quality. 

Also how’s the quality on the belt clip? Looks a little plastic-y and cheap in the pics.


----------



## twister6

Renegadeblue said:


> Are you able to use aftermarket usb to lightning cables with the S2? For example do I really have to buy the lightning cable sold by MusicTek with this or can I use one of the highly recommended lightning cables people over using over in the W2 forum (like the ddhifi mfi06 or OEAudio lighting cables)?
> 
> I seem to remember reading somewhere the with the S1 you needed to use the Lotoo branded lightning cable in order for the device to work at all. If that’s still the case I’ll pass as I feel included accessories with any device are almost never very high quality.
> 
> Also how’s the quality on the belt clip? Looks a little plastic-y and cheap in the pics.



You can use any usb-c to lightning OTG cables with it, from lotoo, l&p, ddhifi, oeaudio.  Plastic clip is just OK, nothing lasts forever, will depend on the level of use and abuse


----------



## musicday

People busy waiting for the S2 to be delivered or busy listening to it already?


----------



## Fg RAMP

I’ll be curious to hear comparisons between S2 and FiiO’s new KA3, as they feature identical connectivity.


----------



## musicday

Fg RAMP said:


> I’ll be curious to hear comparisons between S2 and FiiO’s new KA3, as they feature identical connectivity.


It doesn't have an OLED screen so i will stick with L&P and Lotoo.


----------



## abitdeef

Cool it has button control but whenever I use a dongle out and about I just use this Keychain Bluetooth controller that's like 10 bucks. Works great and of course works with any source that has Bluetooth. 

The fiio looks really solid and the price is good but I'm like musicday, I'm used to having a screen  

BT controller - with W2 for size comparison.


----------



## Frainen

twister6 said:


> If you don't care about audio playback controls, the only other reason to get S2 if you are using W2 and iPhone and it stutters at higher volume due to higher current draw of W2.


Comparing the W2 to S2, I agree with the points brought by @twister6 .

From a practical aspect, I prefer the buttons on the S2. I am always messing up with the W2 volume, but I might be the problem!
Even if you are an MQA user, I don't hear any benefit with the S2 compared to W2.


----------



## twister6

Frainen said:


> Comparing the W2 to S2, I agree with the points brought by @twister6 .
> 
> From a practical aspect, I prefer the buttons on the S2. I am always messing up with the W2 volume, but I might be the problem!
> Even if you are an MQA user, I don't hear any benefit with the S2 compared to W2.



... I switched completely to Amazon Music HD, and no longer have to worry about MQA support or split hairs about its benefits


----------



## abitdeef

twister6 said:


> ... I switched completely to Amazon Music HD, and no longer have to worry about MQA support or split hairs about its benefits



Me too 😉 I like to keep it simple and hi res flac sounds wonderful.


----------



## dgjl

Frainen said:


> Comparing the W2 to S2, I agree with the points brought by @twister6 .
> 
> From a practical aspect, I prefer the buttons on the S2. I am always messing up with the W2 volume, but I might be the problem!
> Even if you are an MQA user, I don't hear any benefit with the S2 compared to W2.


If the S2 sq is a wash with the W2, then the principal advantage to non-MQA listeners could be battery-life. How much more efficient than the W2 is the S2? With my Samsung S20 the W2 uses about 10% an hour, my A&K PEE51 (current favourite) uses about 12% an hour - both with light IEMs. Is there any comparable data from S2 users?


----------



## musicday

Lotoo is very good at providing many firmware updates.


----------



## yugas

I have my PAW S2 unit coming in the next days, will post some impressions here, compared with the S1. I'm really excited


----------



## musicday

yugas said:


> I have my PAW S2 unit coming in the next days, will post some impressions here, compared with the S1. I'm really excited


Welcome, I was wondering how you are doing.👍


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (Oct 22, 2021)

I just received my Lotoo PAW S2 today.   I dusted off my Lotoo PAW S1 and L&P W2 and did a couple hours of A/B/C testing with about a dozen tracks listening with my Empire Ears EVO.   To my ear, the S2 is definitely an upgrade to the S1 and it is very comparable to the L&P W2 now.    I have not listened to my S1 for more than 6 months because the W2 is significantly better, so I always bust out the W2 when I have a choice.   My first impression is that I slightly prefer the S2 to the W2 because it has a cleaner presentation.   The bass is slightly faster and the overall signature is very clear and transparent.   I value that especially with the EVO.

I need to spend a lot more time listening with different IEMs and more music before I made a final decision on which I like better.  But this is how I hear it now.


----------



## cdanguyen08 (Oct 22, 2021)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I just received my Lotoo PAW S2 today.   I dusted off my Lotoo PAW S1 and L&P W2 and did a couple hours of A/B/C testing with about a dozen tracks listening with my Empire Ears EVO.   To my ear, the S2 is definitely an upgrade to the S1 and it is very comparable to the L&P W2 now.    I have not listened to my S1 for more than 6 months because the W2 is significantly better, so I always bust out the W2 when I have a choice.   My first impression is that I slightly prefer the S2 to the W2 because it has a cleaner presentation.   The bass is slightly faster and the overall signature is very clear and transparent.   I value that especially with the EVO.


Thank you @HiFiHawaii808 ! This is exactly what I was waiting for. Comparison between the S2 and the W2 with the EVO.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

cdanguyen08 said:


> Thank you @HiFiHawaii808 ! This is was exactly what I was waiting for. Comparison between the S2 and the W2 with the EVO.


Well, I have all 3 of these products.  Let me know if you want for me to test anything for you.

The clarity and transparency and tightness (in a good way) of the sound is the most noticeable sound attribute.   It really enhances the imaging and instrument and voice separation of the EVO.   I really like this sound.


----------



## discord

@HiFiHawaii808 

How is the battery consumption?


----------



## NinjaGirayaZ

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I just received my Lotoo PAW S2 today.   I dusted off my Lotoo PAW S1 and L&P W2 and did a couple hours of A/B/C testing with about a dozen tracks listening with my Empire Ears EVO.   To my ear, the S2 is definitely an upgrade to the S1 and it is very comparable to the L&P W2 now.    I have not listened to my S1 for more than 6 months because the W2 is significantly better, so I always bust out the W2 when I have a choice.   My first impression is that I slightly prefer the S2 to the W2 because it has a cleaner presentation.   The bass is slightly faster and the overall signature is very clear and transparent.   I value that especially with the EVO.
> 
> I need to spend a lot more time listening with different IEMs and more music before I made a final decision on which I like better.  But this is how I hear it now.


Almost everyone here describes s1 as being warm and w2 brighter... which way does s2 go? Still warm like S1?


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (Oct 22, 2021)

discord said:


> @HiFiHawaii808
> 
> How is the battery consumption?


Not bad.  Much better than the W2.   I will be going on a 2 hour walk with it later today.    That will tell me for sure.

I did pair it with my Hifiman HE1000v2 and it's not powerful enough to drive it sufficiently.  I had it on 85.   It wasn't distorting, but I don't like to listen with that little headroom.    With the W2, same volume is at 75.  I little better, but still too little headroom.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (Oct 22, 2021)

NinjaGirayaZ said:


> Almost everyone here describes s1 as being warm and w2 brighter... which way does s2 go? Still warm like S1?


Yes.  Similar signature as the S1 along the lines that I would call the Lotoo house sound.  But, the bass is faster and tighter and the sound is much more clear and transparent.   They improved the S1 the way I would have wanted them to do it.

Remember, I am listening with Legend EVO.   I will try it with Traillii tomorrow.


----------



## NinjaGirayaZ

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Yes.  Similar signature as the S1 along the lines that I would call the Lotoo house sound.  But, the bass is faster and tighter and the sound is much more clear and transparent.   They improved the S1 the way I would have wanted them to do it.
> 
> Remember, I am listening with Legend EVO.   I will try it with Traillii tomorrow.


Thank you very much for the answer... I await if possible also on the comparative on sound stage in relation to the other two.


----------



## musicday

Good impressions of the S2 so far.


----------



## Exit

On Android with Tidal app, can S2 do bit perfect?


----------



## Thermist

Hello,

New member here with several observations and a question.

I have had the PAW-S2 for several weeks now, but couldn’t listen to it much because both the original 30cm lightening cable, and a replacement, failed within a matter of hours! While these longer cables worked the sound was somewhat harsh. I would advise caution when ordering the longer cable.

Finally got the 6.5cm cable and can finally hear how good this DAC/amp is with my iPhone + Penon Sphere IEM’s (streaming Qobuz). Vast improvement over my iPhone 6s headphone jack, the Apple dangle, and the Zorloo Ztella dangle. For the first time I can hear space, instrument separation and fine detail. Cymbal sound is detailed and fairly realistic, which it never had been before. Good PRAT and emotionally involving, particularly with good recordings. Perhaps just a tad bright for my tastes, but have yet to burn in fully. Quite happy, and thrilled with the controls - since I listen a lot while riding a bike, and have been fishing my phone out of my pocket to skip tracks.

My question is: has anyone tried to drive Dethonray’s Tender IEM’s? I understand that they are quite power hungry and prefer >200mw, but I am hoping to get by with the PAW S2.

Thanks everyone,

Thermist


----------



## abheybir

I was going to buy S1, but now I think I should wait bit more, S2 seems more promising.


----------



## musicday

abheybir said:


> I was going to buy S1, but now I think I should wait bit more, S2 seems more promising.


Yes, definitely get the S2 if you can afford it. Otherwise S1 should be good enough.


----------



## musicday

New firmware released: 2.0.0.3  https://www.lotoo.cn/english/bottom/Service/Download/Hi_Fi_Music_Player/2021/0908/102.html

1. Tidal APP supported
2. Fixed the bug that caused the "Play/Pause" key to become occasionally dysfunctional.
3. Fixed the bug that sample rate may be incorrectly set when rapidly switching songs in some APP.
4. ATE "Cassette" and "VinlyLP" fine-tuned
5. ATE "Brighter" and "Sweet" removed
6. PMEQ "Full bass", "Jazz", "Techno" and "Dance" removed


----------



## abitdeef (Oct 25, 2021)

musicday said:


> New firmware released: 2.0.0.3  https://www.lotoo.cn/english/bottom/Service/Download/Hi_Fi_Music_Player/2021/0908/102.html
> 
> 1. Tidal APP supported
> 2. Fixed the bug that caused the "Play/Pause" key to become occasionally dysfunctional.
> ...



Wonder why they removed all the dsp settings?


----------



## ClieOS

No sure of this has been posted before, but here is L7 Lab's AP measurements of S2, in Chinese.


----------



## MarkParity

ClieOS said:


> No sure of this has been posted before, but here is L7 Lab's AP measurements of S2, in Chinese.


It doesn't read well for the S2, poor performance above 12Khz? 

I kind of glad I cancelled my order and stuck with the W2. The problem may be fixed in a later F/W version though.


----------



## twister6 (Oct 26, 2021)

MarkParity said:


> It doesn't read well for the S2, poor performance above 12Khz?
> 
> I kind of glad I cancelled my order and stuck with the W2. The problem may be fixed in a later F/W version though.



Unless you are an audiophile purist who's trying to convince yourself that A will be better than B just by looking at the graph, it will all come down to comparison of functionality, features, and the actual sound with your IEMs/headphones of choice.  After I updated S2 fw last night, I did more testing to check the app compatibility and to compare to W2.  If you are going to base the decision purely on technical sound performance, W2 has some edge with a bit wider soundstage and slightly better dynamics, tested using 4.4mm output and Traillii w/First Time cable.  From tonality perspective, it will be a matter of personal preference with W2 being brighter, more transparent, and more revealing in mids while S2 being smother, warmer, and with a little more body.  One thing to keep in mind, due to chip shortage, L&P had to update W2 design, going from CS43198 to CS43131 dacs which could affect the final sound performance, though I will give L&P benefit of the doubt that changes will be kept down to minimum.

Now, in terms of functionality and smartphone compatibility, S2 has a noticeable upper edge due to less current draw (better compatibility with iPhone), improved redesigned cable (again, with iPhone you are getting now 5V instead of 3.8V like it was with previous otg cables from lotoo and l&p), both short and long usb-c otg cables, belt clip, LO (soon to be implemented in fw), MQA 4x (Win10 Tidal app or UAPP/Tidal on Android phone), and remote playback hw controls of play/pause/skip.  The price is identical, if you factor in optical usb-c to lightning otg cable.


----------



## musicday

twister6 said:


> Unless you are an audiophile purist who's trying to convince yourself that A will be better than B just by looking at the graph, it will all come down to comparison of functionality, features, and the actual sound with your IEMs/headphones of choice.  After I updated S2 fw last night, I did more testing to check the app compatibility and to compare to W2.  If you are going to base the decision purely on technical sound performance, W2 has some edge with a bit wider soundstage and slightly better dynamics, tested using 4.4mm output and Traillii w/First Time cable.  From tonality perspective, it will be a matter of personal preference with W2 being brighter, more transparent, and more revealing in mids while S2 being smother, warmer, and with a little more body.  One thing to keep in mind, due to chip shortage, L&P had to update W2 design, going from CS43198 to CS43131 dacs which could affect the final sound performance, though I will give L&P benefit of the doubt that changes will be kept down to minimum.
> 
> Now, in terms of functionality and smartphone compatibility, S2 has a noticeable upper edge due to less current draw (better compatibility with iPhone), improved redesigned cable (again, with iPhone you are getting now 5V instead of 3.8V like it was with previous otg cables from lotoo and l&p), both short and long usb-c otg cables, belt clip, LO (soon to be implemented in fw), MQA 4x (Win10 Tidal app or UAPP/Tidal on Android phone), and remote playback hw controls of play/pause/skip.  The price is identical, if you factor in optical usb-c to lightning otg cable.


Much respect to Lotoo for releasing a firmware update to add/fix some things so quickly after the release of S2.
Hopefully more companies will learn and release quicker their firmware updates when needed.


----------



## jsmiller58

twister6 said:


> If you are going to base the decision purely on technical sound performance, W2 has some edge with a bit wider soundstage and slightly better dynamics


The S2 on paper would clearly seem a step up over the S1 from features and power.  Compared to the W2, the playback features on the S2 give it the edge, and the MQA compatibility is nice if that matters to prospective owners.  The most significant difference would be the sound signature differences - the description you give is precisely what I hear between the S1 and W2, so it seems Lotoo is sticking to what might be their “house sound”.  All about what listeners prefer, and synergy with their specific IEMs and headphones…. I might want to listen to my KATO and Oracle on the S1 (and thus probably S2 if I had that), while I would probably listen to my Mele and LZ A7 out of the W2…


----------



## H T T

jsmiller58 said:


> The S2 on paper would clearly seem a step up over the S1 from features and power.  Compared to the W2, the playback features on the S2 give it the edge, and the MQA compatibility is nice if that matters to prospective owners.  The most significant difference would be the sound signature differences - the description you give is precisely what I hear between the S1 and W2, so it seems Lotoo is sticking to what might be their “house sound”.  All about what listeners prefer, and synergy with their specific IEMs and headphones…. I might want to listen to my KATO and Oracle on the S1 (and thus probably S2 if I had that), while I would probably listen to my Mele and LZ A7 out of the W2…


In my short time with my Kato, I think the Kato synergizes better with my S1 than my W1. The Kato is a bit shouty with the W1.


----------



## jsmiller58

H T T said:


> In my short time with my Kato, I think the Kato synergizes better with my S1 than my W1. The Kato is a bit shouty with the W1.


Yep!!  I am still just getting to know my KATO and haven’t yet tried it with my dongles, only my R6 Pro, but I suspect I will find exactly the same thing when I try it out on the S1 and W2.  I hadn‘t thought of it, but now that you mention it the KATO is definitely a bit shouty and will need careful pairing.


----------



## Gus141 (Nov 1, 2021)

twister6 said:


> Unless you are an audiophile purist who's trying to convince yourself that A will be better than B just by looking at the graph, it will all come down to comparison of functionality, features, and the actual sound with your IEMs/headphones of choice.  After I updated S2 fw last night, I did more testing to check the app compatibility and to compare to W2.  If you are going to base the decision purely on technical sound performance, W2 has some edge with a bit wider soundstage and slightly better dynamics, tested using 4.4mm output and Traillii w/First Time cable.  From tonality perspective, it will be a matter of personal preference with W2 being brighter, more transparent, and more revealing in mids while S2 being smother, warmer, and with a little more body.  One thing to keep in mind, due to chip shortage, L&P had to update W2 design, going from CS43198 to CS43131 dacs which could affect the final sound performance, though I will give L&P benefit of the doubt that changes will be kept down to minimum.
> 
> Now, in terms of functionality and smartphone compatibility, S2 has a noticeable upper edge due to less current draw (better compatibility with iPhone), improved redesigned cable (again, with iPhone you are getting now 5V instead of 3.8V like it was with previous otg cables from lotoo and l&p), both short and long usb-c otg cables, belt clip, LO (soon to be implemented in fw), MQA 4x (Win10 Tidal app or UAPP/Tidal on Android phone), and remote playback hw controls of play/pause/skip.  The price is identical, if you factor in optical usb-c to lightning otg cable.


OK, this has been a long listening session tonight, wrapping up 2 weeks of critical listening. And…I could not say it better than @twister6 said it.  I totally agree with all he says.

For me, if I was to summarize and over-simplify my findings:
—S2 is better than S1 (sound quality is about the same to me after firmware update, but the play/pause button on the S2 trumps the S1, and the higher output voltage of the S2 on iPhone is welcome, plus I have no EMI/RFI issues with the S2 in my use cases);
— W2 is better than both S1 & S2 in sound quality (very noticable to me in the mids especially); but,
— S2 is really convenient with the play/pause button and nice clip-case, and could be the deciding factor as to which is best for you.

I got my S2 over two weeks ago on Oct 11 and I have been silent on this forum because I was not impressed and I didn’t want my initial knee-jerk reaction to tarnish the interest in his DAC. But I kept going back to the W2 and the S1 and preferring their sound over the S2 out of an iPhone 12 Mini and an iPad 12.9” iPad Pro.

The recent firmware update to the S2 improved things. The S2 now sounds very similar to me as the S1 (no EFX/ATE) when volume matched (this is important to note since the S2 is louder at a given gain+vol setting compared to the same values on the S1, so when comparing S1 vs S2, turn up the S1). I also find that with my main IEM (Sony IER-Z1R) which I usually like on High gain settings, especially with the W2, playback on the S2 is actually best in the *Low* gain setting with a higher volume to my ears with those IEMs.

I will also note that the main reason I even bought the S2 was because I was getting EMI-or-RFI-(not-sure-what-to-call-it) interference with the S1 on my iPad Pro when the dongle touched the iPad, and the S2 solves this problem: it does not have any audible interference when paired with my iPhone or iPad even when touching them. yeah! [W2 never had interference issues].

So (and this is just my humble subjective opinion) if you had to choose one dongle out of S1, S2 and W2: if sound quality is the most important factor get the W2 (original not -131, since we know nothing about that one yet*edit); get S2 if you want that play/pause button or had interference issues with an S1 and prefer the Lotoo house sound.

Cheers,
Gus

*edit: W2-131 was measured (https://www.l7audiolab.com/f/luxuryprecision-w2-131/) and the CS43131-based W2 measured as good if not better than the original W2. Hopefully listening impressions match as well, but the W2-131 looks like a safe bet if you like the original W2


----------



## uncletim

Does the S2 have Line Out?


----------



## musicday

uncletim said:


> Does the S2 have Line Out?


It will have later via a firmware update.


----------



## AlexaMan

@Gus141 Very nice impression. Thanks a lot for detailed review and comparison.


----------



## letitgoo

Hi Guys, 

anyone can compare Lotoo Paw S2 to THX Onyx ?


----------



## captainmuffins

I would like to share my impressions of the PAW S2 (with comparisons with the PAW S1)

I had the PAW S2 for quite a while now and I utterly enjoyed it.

What I am getting out of the PAW S2 compared to the PAW S1 would be how the PAW S2 renders bass. There is just quite a bit more oopmh with the S2 compared to the S1. I feel that it sounds tight with better control compared to the PAW S1. To me, this was the single more prominent difference between the S1 and S2 during my first listen.

However, after some time, I realized that with my more resolving IEMs such as the Vision Ears VE7, the level of resolution that the S2 can output to me is more obvious than the S1. To me, there seems to be better micro-contrast especially with regards to depth rendering.

The additional power is also felt as my VE7 sounds like there is more control.

The S1 by comparison sounds a bit less dimensional in terms of depth and I find the dynamics of the S1 also less.

I listened to both with no effects on.


----------



## soufiaj

captainmuffins said:


> I would like to share my impressions of the PAW S2 (with comparisons with the PAW S1)
> 
> I had the PAW S2 for quite a while now and I utterly enjoyed it.
> 
> ...


Great impression! Just curious, are both of your S1 & S2 already updated to their latest FW version 1.0.0.11? 

My S1 sounded like having that additional “oomph” with a little bit improvement on its dynamics presentation as well, right after updating to latest FW.
Plus, for S2 vs S1 - (apart from power-output improvement + added button) they both are still rocking the exact same DAC Chip (AKM4377).

Wondering if the sound improvement I experienced on my S1 might be just one of those placebo effect OR my wallet’s hidden message on telling me not to upgrade to S2…


----------



## captainmuffins

soufiaj said:


> Great impression! Just curious, are both of your S1 & S2 already updated to their latest FW version 1.0.0.11?
> 
> My S1 sounded like having that additional “oomph” with a little bit improvement on its dynamics presentation as well, right after updating to latest FW.
> Plus, for S2 vs S1 - (apart from power-output improvement + added button) they both are still rocking the exact same DAC Chip (AKM4377).
> ...



Honestly, I think there is more to do with implementation over the raw components. After all, my experience watching masterchef is that even with the same ingredients (components in this case) the results can vary.

Also with a reworked power section with the S2 would also indicate a new design in the amplification stage as well. If I am not wrong, the S2 has some new clocks in it to reduce jitter which can be the reason for this added micro-contrast.

I upgraded both to the latest firmware


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

twister6 said:


> Unless you are an audiophile purist who's trying to convince yourself that A will be better than B just by looking at the graph, it will all come down to comparison of functionality, features, and the actual sound with your IEMs/headphones of choice.  After I updated S2 fw last night, I did more testing to check the app compatibility and to compare to W2.  If you are going to base the decision purely on technical sound performance, W2 has some edge with a bit wider soundstage and slightly better dynamics, tested using 4.4mm output and Traillii w/First Time cable.  From tonality perspective, it will be a matter of personal preference with W2 being brighter, more transparent, and more revealing in mids while S2 being smother, warmer, and with a little more body.  One thing to keep in mind, due to chip shortage, L&P had to update W2 design, going from CS43198 to CS43131 dacs which could affect the final sound performance, though I will give L&P benefit of the doubt that changes will be kept down to minimum.
> 
> Now, in terms of functionality and smartphone compatibility, S2 has a noticeable upper edge due to less current draw (better compatibility with iPhone), improved redesigned cable (again, with iPhone you are getting now 5V instead of 3.8V like it was with previous otg cables from lotoo and l&p), both short and long usb-c otg cables, belt clip, LO (soon to be implemented in fw), MQA 4x (Win10 Tidal app or UAPP/Tidal on Android phone), and remote playback hw controls of play/pause/skip.  The price is identical, if you factor in optical usb-c to lightning otg cable.


I hear it the way you describe it.  I prefer the S2 over the W2 because I prefer its better bass response and the lower power draw.   I just wish it had a case like the S1 does.   Not a carrying case as I have that, but the case that protects it when in use.  Maybe that is coming later.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

musicday said:


> It will have later via a firmware update.


This explains why I could not figure out how to put it into Line out mode.   I tried to pair it with my C9 and the sound sucked.


----------



## jmwant

captainmuffins said:


> I would like to share my impressions of the PAW S2 (with comparisons with the PAW S1)
> 
> I had the PAW S2 for quite a while now and I utterly enjoyed it.
> 
> ...


Nice One!


----------



## soufiaj

I just cant believed I pulled the trigger on the S2 today…(Coming from S1- for my iPhone) (kinda impulsive purchase tbh)

Right off the bat I think it worth the investment! Currently listening on it and most of the things improvements have been positive! 

1 thing I can confirm is the EMI/RFI noise issue have been totally GONE! 

Glad that nobody notices my psycho grin behind this mask while enjoying my music in the train…


----------



## musicday

Waiting for the black Friday sale to pick up the S2.


----------



## powergeek

Where can we buy the S2 in Europe? Thanks.


----------



## musicday

powergeek said:


> Where can we buy the S2 in Europe? Thanks.


I have no clue where from in Europe, just China and Musicteck America as far as I am aware for now.


----------



## Beh0lder

powergeek said:


> Where can we buy the S2 in Europe? Thanks.


Audeos in Poland stocks them.


----------



## sneill321

powergeek said:


> Where can we buy the S2 in Europe? Thanks.



Here is a link to a Polish retailer: https://audeos.pl/lotoo-paw-s2

1,199/PLN - roughly €262 + 80/PLN shipping - roughly €17.50

Their website says they are an offical distributor for Lotoo

Note: I have never dealt with them before, I just found their website while searching online.

I am trying to decide between the S2 or W2...


----------



## rlw6534

sneill321 said:


> I am trying to decide between the S2 or W2...



I suspect several of us are in the same boat...


----------



## musicday

rlw6534 said:


> I suspect several of us are in the same boat...


I have the W2 but now I want the S2 also. 😉


----------



## powergeek

sneill321 said:


> Here is a link to a Polish retailer: https://audeos.pl/lotoo-paw-s2
> 
> 1,199/PLN - roughly €262 + 80/PLN shipping - roughly €17.50
> 
> ...


Thanks! Found it in France for 279€ here: https://www.noir-et-blanc.com/lotoo-paw-s2.html


----------



## Charente

powergeek said:


> Thanks! Found it in France for 279€ here: https://www.noir-et-blanc.com/lotoo-paw-s2.html


Actually, they're based in Belgium


----------



## Zachik

powergeek said:


> Thanks! Found it in France for 279€ here: https://www.noir-et-blanc.com/lotoo-paw-s2.html





Charente said:


> Actually, they're based in Belgium









I could not resist...


----------



## powergeek

Charente said:


> Actually, they're based in Belgium


Oops ! My bad 🤭


----------



## waveSounds

TomaYto, tomaRto...


----------



## discord




----------



## Exit (Nov 15, 2021)

I own a W2 and still pulled the trigger on S2. After weeks of listening with Hifiman RE800 single ended, I could say I prefer the sound signature of S2. It gives lushier mids, from vocal to instruments such as violin. Engaging. W2, on the other hand, is cooler and more transparent, offering a bit more micro details. I especially appreciate listening to piano playing with W2. If I had to choose only one portable gear, I would choose S2. It gives me more vibes of music and quality high enough for everyday commuting. The support of Tidal on Android is another killer function which W2 so far still fails to deliver. Music converted from 44.1khz to 48khz by Android SRC is noticeable and unbearable.
Finally, with S2, I am able to get rid of UAPP buffering and also listen to offline Tidal collection natively, and most important of all, *bit perfectly*.


----------



## dgjl

Exit said:


> I own a W2 and still pulled the trigger on S2. After weeks of listening with Hifiman RE800 single ended, I could say I prefer the sound signature of S2. It gives lushier mids, from vocal to instruments such as violin. Engaging. W2, on the other hand, is cooler and more transparent, offering a bit more micro details. I especially appreciate listening to piano playing with W2. If I had to choose only one portable gear, I would choose S2. It gives me more vibes of music and quality high enough for everyday commuting. The support of Tidal on Android is another killer function which W2 so far still fails to deliver. Music converted from 44.1khz to 48khz by Android SRC is noticeable and unbearable.
> Finally, with S2, I am able to get rid of UAPP buffering and also listen to offline Tidal collection natively, and most important of all, *bit perfectly*.


Thanks for this. Very helpful. Could you say anything about the power draw differences between S2 and W2. W2 uses about 10% an hour on my S20, low gain and light iems.


----------



## twister6

dgjl said:


> Thanks for this. Very helpful. Could you say anything about the power draw differences between S2 and W2. W2 uses about 10% an hour on my S20, low gain and light iems.



It will depend on what you are driving and how loud the volume is, but I noticed that S2 draws on average 20-30mA less current.


----------



## musicday

Anyone knows when the black Friday sale starts for the S2?
I could use one


----------



## skedra

I figured I'd give some impressions of the S2 after a couple of weeks of use, and before the final review. I generally tend to use Bluetooth dongles (Qudelix 5K, Shanling UP5 and alike) on a day to day basis and until recently I didn't have a good reason to use a dongle instead since the jump in sound quality didn't seem worth it in terms of convenience. However, after some time with the S2 I can say that will change in a lot of situations. 
Without going into huge detail the S2 very much has a Lotoo sound to it, it's smooth, lush and sweet-sounding without giving up on resolution and technicalities, it's very apparent listening to it side by side with the Paw Gold Touch that they are both tuned by the same people. 
In terms of technical performance, as I mentioned above, the S2 may be the first dongle where I feel it's worth using it over a Bluetooth device, the jump in sound quality is apparent, especially with higher-end IEMs (like my daily driver MAD24 and MEST MK2) which benefit from the added clarity and better tonal balance of the S2. 
I didn't have a chance to compare it to say L&P W2 but from memory the latter was much drier and "overly" neutral to me, edging on being a bit glary, whereas the S2 was much more natural and pleasant sounding. W2 also gave a bit of a fake detail impression in comparison.
Usability wise, I'm yet to find an issue while using it, plug in, it connects immediately, volume buttons work just fine every time, so does the play and function key. I kinda wish it had dedicated next and last track buttons but that's more of a nitpick.


----------



## PhenixS1970

I also got one a few weeks ago.  Really covenient with apple music on my iphone 11 and love the Lotoo sound (also have a 6000).  Just paying attention when disconnecting headphones as I noticed that there is bit of wiggle when unplugging (I block the unused input with my thumb when pulling out a headphone to not stress the pcb boards).  Btw if you have the apple camera adapter usb to lightning that works as well with the supplied cables .


----------



## yoshi15

I've really been enjoying the s2 with my iphone 11, dunu dk4001. Take it pretty much everywhere, qq about the new firmware. What's the reasoning behind removing the PMEQ settings? the jazz eq hits just right for me


----------



## dgjl

Is anybody using the S2 with Tidal on android? If so, can they say if Tidal, now that it can use the DAC in bit perfect mode, is much the same as UAPP/Hiby, or whether those solutions are still the way to go for sq? Thanks.


----------



## Exit

dgjl said:


> Is anybody using the S2 with Tidal on android? If so, can they say if Tidal, now that it can use the DAC in bit perfect mode, is much the same as UAPP/Hiby, or whether those solutions are still the way to go for sq? Thanks.


Using S2 with Tidal on S21 Ultra. I can't hear difference between UAPP and Tidal, both in bit perfect mode. However, with Tidal, there is a half a second pause everytime I open other apps. The pause becomes a faint "dat dat" sound while MQA being played. And with both UAPP and Tidal, there is always this "dat dat" at the beginning of every MQA song.


----------



## Exit (Nov 23, 2021)

Exit said:


> Using S2 with Tidal on S21 Ultra. I can't hear difference between UAPP and Tidal, both in bit perfect mode. However, with Tidal, there is a half a second pause everytime I open other apps. The pause becomes a faint "dat dat" sound while MQA being played. And with both UAPP and Tidal, there is always this "dat dat" at the beginning of every MQA song.


I just fixed my own problem. keeping Tidal open in the background solves the stutter when switching apps. So basically now to me, there is no SQ difference between UAPP and Tidal. Static dat sound at the start of MQA songs remains with both apps, tho.

Usability wise, I would like to point out that the remote button of S2 is working with UAPP only. I use physical button of the phone to play next with Tidal.


----------



## dgjl

Exit said:


> I just fixed my own problem. keeping Tidal open in the background solved the stutter when switching apps. So basically now to me, there is no SQ difference between UAPP and Tidal.
> 
> Usability wise, I would like to point out that the remote button is working with UAPP only. I use physical button of the phone to play next with Tidal.


Thanks very much!


----------



## dgjl (Nov 23, 2021)

Exit said:


> I just fixed my own problem. keeping Tidal open in the background solves the stutter when switching apps. So basically now to me, there is no SQ difference between UAPP and Tidal. Static dat sound at the start of MQA songs remains with both apps, tho.
> 
> Usability wise, I would like to point out that the remote button of S2 is working with UAPP only. I use physical button of the phone to play next with Tidal


----------



## MitchriX (Nov 23, 2021)

Got S1 during summer and enjoed it so much that couldn't miss out the new S2 now after its launch. Really love the that extra function button and the clip addon. This version comes closer to one of the most iconic piece of equipment from 20 years ago - Sony's MDP remote control.




I mean that thing was almost perfect with all its functionality, and on top of that it looked damn cool as well. I wonder how long it will take for companies producing these small portable DACs nowadays to get to the same level in product design...

Anyway, I'm happy with S2, but I have quite annoying issue with Lotoo's original lightning to USB C cable. The first cable died within a week (no sound from headphones when plugged to iPhone SE 2020). S1 was getting power (display lighting up), but no sound coming from the unit. The second upgraded lightning cable from Lotoo (launched with S2) - the same thing - it worked for a week and similar issue re-appeared. Additionally, there is some randomness to this, as the sound might work after all, after re-plugging the lightning cable's end to the phone for the 7th/8th time in a row, so still - pretty low probability. I feel as if the issue is with the lightning connector, because once the connection is successful (you can bend the cable as much as you like), the "flow" of the music's there and is not interrupted afterwards. It's just the establishment of the initial connection that is somehow affected.

Was thinking to try a different OTG cable (Fiio's LT-LT1, ddHiFi's MFi06 are on the way) to see if those make a difference, but wondering if anyone else has experienced something similar. Thaks for sharing in any case!


----------



## H T T

MitchriX said:


> Got S1 during summer and enjoed it so much that couldn't miss out the new S2 now after its launch. Really love the that extra function button and the clip addon. This version comes closer to one of the most iconic piece of equipment from 20 years ago - Sony's MDP remote control.
> 
> I mean that thing was almost perfect with all its functionality, and on top of that it looked damn cool as well. I wonder how long it will take for companies producing these small portable DACs nowadays to get to the same level in product design...
> 
> ...


The Meenova cable on Amazon has worked well for me for the S1.


----------



## NJoyzAudio (Nov 23, 2021)

MitchriX said:


> Got S1 during summer and enjoed it so much that couldn't miss out the new S2 now after its launch. Really love the that extra function button and the clip addon. This version comes closer to one of the most iconic piece of equipment from 20 years ago - Sony's MDP remote control.
> 
> I mean that thing was almost perfect with all its functionality, and on top of that it looked damn cool as well. I wonder how long it will take for companies producing these small portable DACs nowadays to get to the same level in product design...
> 
> ...


MitchriX

Sorry to hear you've had problems with the Lotoo Cables.  Guess I've been lucky and have not had issues, both with S1 and S2.
I've had really good luck with a cable from Amazon Basics, that has a nice doublebraided cloth exterior, and bonus is it is chipped to support USB 3.2 and Alt-Mode DisplayPort Video and Blu-Ray HD Audio signals (an oxymoron since HD Audio in this case is a Video Standard as its audio from Blu-Ray Video) 
Though it is NOT a OTG cable, when using with my USB-C tablet, I don't see any faster drain than using the OTG cables.
https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics...715233&sprefix=Amazon+3.1,aps,213&sr=8-4&th=1

Using this cable allows me to cut down on the number of cables I have to travel on business with, and if I choose to not take my DAP, it allows me to use the S2 from PC or Tablet and use Amazon Music HD or Tidal without issues, and the S2 on Tidal Master tracks correctly shows it is using MQA 4x.

Just wanted to pass this on as the cable has machined aluminum ends, its braided fabric and supports USB 3.1/3.2 speeds, and is less expensive than many other USB-C cables out there.

Hope this information helps


----------



## econaut

Hi, I want to upgrade my Dragonfly Cobalt because I want balanced output. Soundwise I am quite happy, so going for a balanced output must not compromise sound quality.

Can anyone compare the S2 (or S1) to a Dragonfly Cobalt?

I have only found a comparison at Headfonia.com of the S1 and the Dragonfly Red, where the S1 comes out on top. But I didn't like the Red at all and it sounds quite different from the Cobalt, so that comparison is of no use to me. The W2 is about on par with the Cobalt from what I have read.


----------



## dgjl

econaut said:


> Hi, I want to upgrade my Dragonfly Cobalt because I want balanced output. Soundwise I am quite happy, so going for a balanced output must not compromise sound quality.
> 
> Can anyone compare the S2 (or S1) to a Dragonfly Cobalt?
> 
> I have only found a comparison at Headfonia.com of the S1 and the Dragonfly Red, where the S1 comes out on top. But I didn't like the Red at all and it sounds quite different from the Cobalt, so that comparison is of no use to me. The W2 is about on par with the Cobalt from what I have read.


I have a Cobalt and a W2 - my S2 is coming at the end of the week, so should be able to post some comparisons early next week (though I won't be using balanced, as that doesn't work well for my Westone W80s). Give me a poke if I forget.


----------



## MitchriX (Nov 24, 2021)

econaut said:


> Hi, I want to upgrade my Dragonfly Cobalt because I want balanced output. Soundwise I am quite happy, so going for a balanced output must not compromise sound quality.
> 
> Can anyone compare the S2 (or S1) to a Dragonfly Cobalt?
> 
> I have only found a comparison at Headfonia.com of the S1 and the Dragonfly Red, where the S1 comes out on top. But I didn't like the Red at all and it sounds quite different from the Cobalt, so that comparison is of no use to me. The W2 is about on par with the Cobalt from what I have read.


I was exactly in the same quandary and did the exchange from DF Cobalt/Red (had those both at the same time for comparison purposes) to S1, and later to S2. I'm not an expert in sound quality, but for me S1/S2 sounds pure and clean, whereas Cobalt felt distorted, as if there were some over exaggerated DSP effects added onto it. That exchange also gave me the chance to start exploring the "balanced" headphones world as I had never owned one before. First thing I did was upgrading the cable on my Campfire Audio's Honeydew headphones 
Also, I feel Lotoo's DACs are superior in build quality than AudioQuest's in general, and all those extra features on S1/S2 make it more versatile unit. The battery drain on the phone was also higher with Cobalt iirc.


----------



## waveSounds

I've also had problems with cables and the S1. It seems to be cable dependant, so a Russian roulette of cable choice to some degree if it's going to work or not - a lot of the ones I've tried keep causing the S1 to disconnect at the slightest wiggle. Worth mentioning if you have a USB C device you don't need an "otg" cable; USB C is inherently otg so you can use any usb C to C so long as it supports data transfer (don't they all?!).


----------



## boveywong

Exit said:


> Using S2 with Tidal on S21 Ultra. I can't hear difference between UAPP and Tidal, both in bit perfect mode. However, with Tidal, there is a half a second pause everytime I open other apps. The pause becomes a faint "dat dat" sound while MQA being played. And with both UAPP and Tidal, there is always this "dat dat" at the beginning of every MQA song.


I just went to a local headphone shop and gave a try to both s2 and w2 using softears rs10 with s10+.

I noticed the static pop noise when playing MQA using tidal. It happened whenever I scrub through the play head, or changing song,  or even in the middle of the song. It's quite loud and discouraging. Playing MQA with uapp introduced stuttering throughout the entire playback, normal playback was fine. But I have to reconnect the s2 to play audio from other apps like YouTube and web browser.

On the other hand the w2 played flawlessly using whatever app you feed it with, no pop no hiccup. Uapp clearly sounded much better than tidal.

Sound wise s2 sounds warm and smooth, w2 sounds brighter and transparent. W2's drove my rs10 better with better dynamic range with more output power.

Native tidal support on the s2 is really nice but it's not working well with my phone. With w2 it means and I have to stick with uapp which is quite a hassle to use. So I'll wait for more future dongle releases.


----------



## awolkoff

Recently purchased an S2 and Lotoo USB C to Lightning OTG cable from MusicTeck for use with my iPhone 13 pro. I'm still new at the IEM game but at age 57 am a life-long audiophile and critical listener. Very pleased with the sound of device through my Ikko OH-10s. I haven't had any issues with MQA playback, but do observe there's a new version of firmware out for the device that appears to address MQA, and I upgraded to this new version before deploying the device. 

I'm grateful for this forum, which put me on the path to these devices. Also grateful for fantastic service from MusicTeck, highly recommended.


----------



## dgjl

Exit said:


> I just fixed my own problem. keeping Tidal open in the background solves the stutter when switching apps. So basically now to me, there is no SQ difference between UAPP and Tidal. Static dat sound at the start of MQA songs remains with both apps, tho.
> 
> Usability wise, I would like to point out that the remote button of S2 is working with UAPP only. I use physical button of the phone to play next with Tidal.


Do you get a problem with volume on the S2 when using Tidal on Android? The volume sometimes comes on at max when I use my Cobalt and the volume buttons on the phone have no effect. Force stopping the app resolves it, but hardly idea for my ears or my IEMs.


----------



## dgjl

econaut said:


> Hi, I want to upgrade my Dragonfly Cobalt because I want balanced output. Soundwise I am quite happy, so going for a balanced output must not compromise sound quality.
> 
> Can anyone compare the S2 (or S1) to a Dragonfly Cobalt?
> 
> I have only found a comparison at Headfonia.com of the S1 and the Dragonfly Red, where the S1 comes out on top. But I didn't like the Red at all and it sounds quite different from the Cobalt, so that comparison is of no use to me. The W2 is about on par with the Cobalt from what I have read.


Initial impressions, but the S2 is better than than Cobalt in every way. Sweeter, fuller, smoother, cleaner, etc. I'll keep testing, but the DFC sounds very rough by comparison. I'm playing Tidal bit perfect to Westone W80s.


----------



## dgjl (Nov 26, 2021)

dgjl said:


> Initial impressions, but the S2 is better than than Cobalt in every way. Sweeter, fuller, smoother, cleaner, etc. I'll keep testing, but the DFC sounds very rough by comparison. I'm playing Tidal bit perfect to Westone W80s.


Another day in and I've done some (non-blind) a/b testing against the W2. There's very little in it and they are very similar in my set up (both S20 orWindows driving W80s). It might be new buyer's placebo, but I'd give the edge to the S2 - just a touch more open, musical, warmer, and more full-bodied (e.g., things that are micro details on the W2 are more present on the S2). As to the above Tidal app vs UAPP debate (when both are bit perfect), the edge clearly goes to UAAP. Unfortunately the Tidal app sounds a little 'digital' and lacks the fullness/sweetness of the UAPP presentation - which is a real shame. Qobuz is a shade better again. All of this is pretty marginal, mind you. Will test against the A&K PEE51, which has been my daily go to for the last few weeks, over the weekend. My guess is it will be pretty close - the wider soundstage of the S2 may take the laurels.


----------



## econaut

dgjl said:


> Initial impressions, but the S2 is better than than Cobalt in every way. Sweeter, fuller, smoother, cleaner, etc. I'll keep testing, but the DFC sounds very rough by comparison. I'm playing Tidal bit perfect to Westone W80s.


Also got the S2 in, but I am having a hard time to hear a difference betwen it and the Cobalt, to be honest. I can only test with Moondrop Kato und Campfire Audio Cascade and HD25 Alu at the moment, because my bigger headphones don't have 3.5 or 4.4 connectors. But I wouldn't use them with the dongle DACs anyway. Wish I still had my Andromedas, I guess then it would be easier.

Do you have a track where you think the differences are quite clear? Maybe I am just listening to the "wrong" music


----------



## econaut (Nov 28, 2021)

Trying some critical listening here. It seems I need to crank up the volume to better hear the differences. Normally I don't listen that loud with headphones.

The S2 has more present treble than the Cobalt and my Jotunheim 2 (DAC is Bifrost 2 in this case). While there is more sparkle, there is also more fatigue.
The Cobalt and Jot are more relaxed in comparison. The S2 seems more forward, vocals and cymbals are more in your face.
Bass is more precise on the S2.
Cobalt sounds dark in comparison (maybe this is the minimum phase slow roll-off filter).

Listening with CFA Cascade (cloth pads and >250 hours burned in, 1T filters) and Tool - Fear Inoculum (Hi Res DR restored version):

EDIT: It's easier to follow the different instruments in the mix with the S2 over the Cobalt. Cymbals also sound more natural because of the mentioned sparkle.


----------



## DaKing

I also consider upgrading to the S2 from a Cobalt / Chord Mojo Poly. How would this pair with CFA Solaris IEM‘s and is there a recommended ios app to play all my hi-res flac files bit perfect? Would MQA work with the ios Tidal app? Apologies for all those questions!


----------



## dgjl

dgjl said:


> Another day in and I've done some (non-blind) a/b testing against the W2. There's very little in it and they are very similar in my set up (both S20 orWindows driving W80s). It might be new buyer's placebo, but I'd give the edge to the S2 - just a touch more open, musical, warmer, and more full-bodied (e.g., things that are micro details on the W2 are more present on the S2). As to the above Tidal app vs UAPP debate (when both are bit perfect), the edge clearly goes to UAAP. Unfortunately the Tidal app sounds a little 'digital' and lacks the fullness/sweetness of the UAPP presentation - which is a real shame. Qobuz is a shade better again. All of this is pretty marginal, mind you. Will test against the A&K PEE51, which has been my daily go to for the last few weeks, over the weekend. My guess is it will be pretty close - the wider soundstage of the S2 may take the laurels.


Following on from this after a few days more listening...

The S2 is certainly very different from the PEE51. On the plus side, it's much more efficient (8% per hour rather than 12%), the soundstage is wider, instrumentation is extraordinarily well separated, detail retrieval is best in class from my experience of these portable DACs. The S2 could, as another user has posted, be a little fatiguing when compared with something like the W2 - which sounds relatively flat compared to the sweeter tuning of the S2 - though I've got more used to it over the week. My 50 year old ears are hearing sounds I've never heard before (or at least, not for a long time!). The PEE51 has a much more cohesive sound, bringing the instrumentation together in the middle, losing that wide soundstage, but creating a pleasing organic and complete presentation. The PEE51 is also quite coloured when compared to the S2 (the comparison to the W2 is much more striking as the S2 is 'sweeter', as said). This is probably what brings everything together on the PEE51, like a high quality filter. In sum, the S2 and the PEE51 are very different beasts and really quite hard to compare. May well end up being a both/and for me rather than an either/or. Will keep the S2 as daily go to for a while longer...


----------



## econaut

Can you please describe what you mean by "sweet" sounding?

To me warm and full bodied are kind of antagonists to fatiguing which is normally caused by upper mids/treble emphasis or spikes and / or "digititus" or too much dynamics (e.g. Focal Utopia) - from my limited experience that is.


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## dgjl

econaut said:


> Can you please describe what you mean by "sweet" sounding?
> 
> To me warm and full bodied are kind of antagonists to fatiguing which is normally caused by upper mids/treble emphasis or spikes and / or "digititus" or too much dynamics (e.g. Focal Utopia) - from my limited experience that is.


I suppose I mean the timbre, especially in the mids and highs is 'nice' or even 'pretty' - it's hard not to just chase metaphors when describing music. The fatigue doesn't come from the quality of the sound, so much as from the way it demands your attention as the little stuff that's in the back ground on other DACs I've tried (DFC, W2, PEE51, S1) is much more forward and present on the S2. I'm getting used to it...


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## Fred5ek (Dec 5, 2021)

Hello everyone, I'm new here from today 2021/12/03.
I want to know if the filters (PMEQ / ATE) of the Lotoo Paw S2 also work on the native sound stream in DSD,
because in Luxury & Precisioin W2 they do not act on the material in DSD.
Does EQ working on PCM also work on DSD.
Thank you and enjoy listening.
Translated using Google


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## OspreyAndy

I am impressed with the improvements offered by S2 over the old S1. No longer weak when driving stubborn magnetic planars. The biggest issue I had with the PAW S1 and L&P W2 was driving power - both borderline anemic when subjected to heavy loads. S2 seems to have richer density throughout the dynamic range and keeping fidelity at exceedingly high level with cleanly nuanced details and great sense of space, definitely a better unit than W2 IMO. Oh yes very efficient too with great battery drain so far


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## vanez1985 (Dec 5, 2021)

Did anyone have a chance to compare S2 with DX300 and (less likely) RU6 or RS6?

After  staying with W2 (S1 is collecting the first since I bought W2) for half a year a have this itch again, mainly because of:
- constantly failing USB cables (could only be solved with DAP)
- high power drain (same, though S2 seems to be less hungry than W2)
- lack of physical FF/rewind/pause buttons (big win for S2)
- search for better, more solid and natural timbre with mellower yet detailed mids (could be addressed by RU6/S2 as well, also looking at RS6)
- desire to have more juice (currently listening at 60-75 volume high gain on W2 which is pushing its limits a bit too much and prevents me from buying planars like A2C).

DX300 and probably RS6 tick all the boxes though I'm a bit tight on budget and not actually ready to spend over $1k on this hobby again, so S2 could be a good compromise here.


----------



## dgjl

OspreyAndy said:


> I am impressed with the improvements offered by S2 over the old S1. No longer weak when driving stubborn magnetic planars. The biggest issue I had with the PAW S1 and L&P W2 was driving power - both borderline anemic when subjected to heavy loads. S2 seems to have richer density throughout the dynamic range and keeping fidelity at exceedingly high level with cleanly nuanced details and great sense of space, definitely a better unit than W2 IMO. Oh yes very efficient too with great battery drain so far


Thanks, Andy. Did you try on phone and PC? I find I've no complaints when S2 is attached to the PC, but it's always a little off, just a touch shrill and demanding with the phone.


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## Richiyaado

I purchased an S2 for use with my iPhone and so far, so good. Having read about cable issues with iPhones, I also purchased a DDHiFi lightning/USB C adapter so I could use the USB C cables bundled with the S2... particularly the longer one. The long cable, along with the pause/play button added to the S2, makes it a more practical rig than I've had before, and it really sounds astonishingly good... at least on par with my mid-tier DAP.


----------



## OspreyAndy

dgjl said:


> Thanks, Andy. Did you try on phone and PC? I find I've no complaints when S2 is attached to the PC, but it's always a little off, just a touch shrill and demanding with the phone.


I tried both. And they work equally great. However I always run my dongles in USB Exclusive mode be it in HiBy Player or Tidal


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## dgjl

OspreyAndy said:


> I tried both. And they work equally great. However I always run my dongles in USB Exclusive mode be it in HiBy Player or Tidal


Thanks. UAPP and Qobuz here. Tried Tidal exclusive on my S20 and didn't like that at all, which was a shame as that was why I wanted to try the S2.


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## RSTA

Hi,

Question re the optional Lotoo usb-c to lightning OTG cable.

Is this the same cable as for the S1?  I thought along with the S2 an updated cable with better shielding was released? To those of you who ordered one of these, which one did you get?  Can you tell from the box?  Thanks.


----------



## awolkoff

RSTA said:


> Hi,
> 
> Question re the optional Lotoo usb-c to lightning OTG cable.
> 
> Is this the same cable as for the S1?  I thought along with the S2 an updated cable with better shielding was released? To those of you who ordered one of these, which one did you get?  Can you tell from the box?  Thanks.


An updated cable was released but it requires a separate purchase and is not included with the S2 itself. I bought both and glad I did as the generic USB-C to lighting cable I had lying around here doesn't seem to work with the device.


----------



## Richiyaado

The ddHiFi lightning to usb c cable seems to work okay with my iPhone, too.


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## RSTA

Thanks, I also bought one but the box says paw S1 cable so not sure if I got the wrong one in error:


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## Richiyaado (Dec 5, 2021)

That appears to be Lotoo's newer lightning cable for both the S1 and S2... it has the added choke thingy at either end (the previous one didn't).


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## twister6

RSTA said:


> Thanks, I also bought one but the box says paw S1 cable so not sure if I got the wrong one in error:



This is an updated cable which you can call v2.  The original one had a braided sleeve and a solid strain relief boot at the tail of the connector.  Don't think the new one has a choke, more like a different strain relief.  But, the new cable has higher quality wires and better shielding and reassures 5V to the device when connected to iPhone/iPod Touch.


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## RSTA

Ok thanks for your help Richiyadoo & Twister6!


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## MitchriX

twister6 said:


> This is an updated cable which you can call v2.  The original one had a braided sleeve and a solid strain relief boot at the tail of the connector.  Don't think the new one has a choke, more like a different strain relief.  But, the new cable has higher quality wires and better shielding and reassures 5V to the device when connected to iPhone/iPod Touch.


Both of those looked solid to me, but unfortunately failed after couple of weeks of use. And I'm sure they didn't get that much abuse in terms of bending of the cable. It felt more of the lightning connector contacts issue, so yeah - I'm not putting my trust in those any longer. Fiio's more cheaper counterpart LT-LT1 however has worked without any issues so far.


----------



## dgjl

MitchriX said:


> Both of those looked solid to me, but unfortunately failed after couple of weeks of use. And I'm sure they didn't get that much abuse in terms of bending of the cable. It felt more of the lightning connector contacts issue, so yeah - I'm not putting my trust in those any longer. Fiio's more cheaper counterpart LT-LT1 however has worked without any issues so far.


Finding a little bit of distortion even at not too high volumes (mid 60s, low gain). Distortion is not there on the PEE51, for example. Trying hard, but can't quite love the S2...


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## twister6

dgjl said:


> Finding a little bit of distortion even at not too high volumes (mid 60s, low gain). Distortion is not there on the PEE51, for example. Trying hard, but can't quite love the S2...



What IEMs are you using? and your source (iphone, android, dap)?


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## dgjl

Westone W80s, Samsung S20, Qobuz through UAPP.


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## twister6

vanez1985 said:


> Did anyone have a chance to compare S2 with DX300 and (less likely) RU6 or RS6?
> 
> After  staying with W2 (S1 is collecting the first since I bought W2) for half a year a have this itch again, mainly because of:
> - constantly failing USB cables (could only be solved with DAP)
> ...



Per the same question you mirrored in W2 thread, as of now no other higher-end usb-dac dongle has play/pause/skip remote playback control.  Hiby FD1 does have it, but it is not in the same category as S2/W2/RU6.  With a cable, if you are not having luck with Lotoo cables, try DDHifi or OE Audio.


----------



## twister6

dgjl said:


> Westone W80s, Samsung S20, Qobuz through UAPP.



Just tested W80 with S2, UAPP (and other apps) and my old Galaxy S9.  In low gain, 3.5mm output, volume over 37 blasts my ears.  In UAPP I have bit prefect enabled and USB volume control set to hardware volume control.  W80 has average sensitivity and very low 5ohm impedance.  Make sure your S20 is set to max volume and control the volume from S2.  If you are pushing W80 from 3.5mm SE output with a volume in mid 60s, you will distort it, it is too high.  If you have set S20 digital volume very low and overcompensating it with higher S2 volume, it could also cause the distortion.


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## dgjl (Dec 6, 2021)

twister6 said:


> Just tested W80 with S2, UAPP (and other apps) and my old Galaxy S9.  In low gain, 3.5mm output, volume over 37 blasts my ears.  In UAPP I have bit prefect enabled and USB volume control set to hardware volume control.  W80 has average sensitivity and very low 5ohm impedance.  Make sure your S20 is set to max volume and control the volume from S2.  If you are pushing W80 from 3.5mm SE output with a volume in mid 60s, you will distort it, it is too high.  If you have set S20 digital volume very low and overcompensating it with higher S2 volume, it could also cause the distortion.


Mmm - interesting. When UAPP is up and running the volume on my S20 is completely disabled - nothing happens when I try to change it, and using the S20 rocker doesn't do anything at all. I can only change volume using the physical keys on the S2, so I'm guessing that the S20 volume is not part of the chain...?? Trid changing from hardward to software control in UAPP and nothing changes.


----------



## twister6

dgjl said:


> Mmm - interesting. When UAPP is up and running the volume on my S20 is completely disabled - nothing happens when I try to change it, and using the S20 rocker doesn't do anything at all. I can only change volume using the physical keys on the S2, so I'm guessing that the S20 volume is not part of the chain...??



That's good, it means that UAPP sets S20 volume to the max by default, that's how you want it to be.  Now, with that volume in mid 60s, do you usually listen to music at a very high volume?


----------



## dgjl

twister6 said:


> That's good, it means that UAPP sets S20 volume to the max by default, that's how you want it to be.  Now, with that volume in mid 60s, do you usually listen to music at a very high volume?


Not really - mostly pretty mellow stuff. It's track dependent. Some tracks are fine in the 40s/50s, others need more welly and can be in the 60s or even low 70s.


----------



## twister6

dgjl said:


> Not really - mostly pretty mellow stuff. It's track dependent. Some tracks are fine in the 40s/50s, others need more welly and can be in the 60s or even low 70s.



Out of curiosity and probably something I should have asked before so we are on the same page, do you mind sharing a link to a track where you hear the distortion and you are running at higher volume?  You can also drop me a PM with that info, if you feel more comfortable.


----------



## dgjl

twister6 said:


> Out of curiosity and probably something I should have asked before so we are on the same page, do you mind sharing a link to a track where you hear the distortion and you are running at higher volume?  You can also drop me a PM with that info, if you feel more comfortable.


Sure. It happens a fair bit between 12 and 14 minutes on Pink Floyd's Echoes (192 version on Qobuz). It's a relatively squawky avant garde section. Distorts on S2, but not on Pee51. Maybe I just had it too loud...? Certainly less obvious at around 50 on the volume.


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## vanez1985

twister6 said:


> Per the same question you mirrored in W2 thread, as of now no other higher-end usb-dac dongle has play/pause/skip remote playback control.  Hiby FD1 does have it, but it is not in the same category as S2/W2/RU6.  With a cable, if you are not having luck with Lotoo cables, try DDHifi or OE Audio.


Thanks a lot! Based on your experience, are S2 and W2 actually comparable in terms of SQ, former being a tad thicker and warmer and latter being a tad brighter and more transparent, or switching from W2 to S2 will feel more like a downgrade?

Another thing which worries me is power output: will S2 be sufficient for my HPs if I usually listen to MSR7b on 65-70/100 using high gain? A few months ago I also tried A2C in a local shop and liked it a lot though W2 was definitely too weak for these, so I suppose the same to happen with S2 as well?

I'm trying to stop myself from buying a used DX300, and S2 still seems a viable option for that solving at least some downsides I'm telling myself as an excuse to pull the trigger on DX300 

Regarding cables, I use DD ones now though they barely survive 3-4 months too


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## twister6 (Dec 6, 2021)

vanez1985 said:


> Thanks a lot! Based on your experience, are S2 and W2 actually comparable in terms of SQ, former being a tad thicker and warmer and latter being a tad brighter and more transparent, or switching from W2 to S2 will feel more like a downgrade?
> 
> Another thing which worries me is power output: will S2 be sufficient for my HPs if I usually listen to MSR7b on 65-70/100 using high gain? A few months ago I also tried A2C in a local shop and liked it a lot though W2 was definitely too weak for these, so I suppose the same to happen with S2 as well?
> 
> ...



MSR7b are not hard to drive, and I don't expect it to be a problem to use with S2, especially since it comes with 4.4mm bal cable and you can use bal output.  I just dusted off my original MSR7, and connected to 3.5mm of S2 I have it set to 59/100 and Low Gain; sounds pretty good.

Regarding upgrade/downgrade, it will depend on a pair up.  Yes, S2 has smoother upper frequencies which might reduce resolution when you are pairing it with warmer tuned IEMs.  But it could also be a blessing when paired with brighter and more sibilant IEMs.


----------



## ruffandruff

twister6 said:


> MSR7b are not hard to drive, and I don't expect it to be a problem to use with S2, especially since it comes with 4.4mm bal cable and you can use bal output.  I just dusted off my original MSR7, and connected to 3.5mm of S2 I have it set to 59/100 and Low Gain; sounds pretty good.
> 
> Regarding upgrade/downgrade, it will depend on a pair up.  Yes, S2 has smoother upper frequencies which might reduce resolution when you are pairing it with warmer tuned IEMs.  But it could also be a blessing when paired with brighter and more sibilant IEMs.


Will the S2 be a good pairing with FAudio Dark Sky?


----------



## twister6

ruffandruff said:


> Will the S2 be a good pairing with FAudio Dark Sky?



Just tried, it does pair up great, but you will have to switch S2 to low gain.  Even if I match the listening volume between low and high gain, in HG the sound is a bit too bright in upper mids/lower treble.  When I switch to LG, it sounds more natural and smoother.


----------



## ruffandruff (Dec 11, 2021)

twister6 said:


> Just tried, it does pair up great, but you will have to switch S2 to low gain.  Even if I match the listening volume between low and high gain, in HG the sound is a bit too bright in upper mids/lower treble.  When I switch to LG, it sounds more natural and smoother.


Thank you. I am sensitive to bright upper mids. Any other dongle that you recommend that is well suited for them. May be the ru6 or whatever that pairs best with them.


----------



## twister6

ruffandruff said:


> Thank you. I am sensitive to bright upper mids. Any other dongle that you recommend that is well suited for them. May be the ru6 or whatever that pairs best with them.



S2 has the smoothest tonality out of S2, W2, and RU6, and pairs up better with neutral and more revealing IEMs.


----------



## ruffandruff

twister6 said:


> S2 has the smoothest tonality out of S2, W2, and RU6, and pairs up better with neutral and more revealing IEMs.


Thank you


----------



## econaut (Dec 12, 2021)

twister6 said:


> S2 has the smoothest tonality out of S2, W2, and RU6, and pairs up better with neutral and more revealing IEMs.


I can confirm this regarding S2 and RU6. I am on the fence right now between these two because of exactly this "issue" (smoother vs. more realistic). Having said that both are very good and it's a question of synergy and personal preferences.


----------



## OspreyAndy

econaut said:


> I can confirm this regarding S2 and RU6. I am on the fence right now between these two because of exactly this "issue" (smoother vs. more realistic). Having said that both are very good and it's a question of synergy and personal preferences.


I totally agree with you on this one. Exact same sentiment from me. BOTH are exceedingly amazing. And yes both better than W2


----------



## econaut

OspreyAndy said:


> I totally agree with you on this one. Exact same sentiment from me. BOTH are exceedingly amazing. And yes both better than W2


Yeah, I find it really difficult, because I only need/want one.

All the extras of the S2 are of no interest for me (MQA, extra button, EQ presets, console support), so it comes down to sound quality.

Although I have to admit that I prefer the form factor and design of the S2 and consuming less battery is also appreciated. Additionally the slight noises that the RU6 makes when rewinding/skipping/fast forward in tracks and sometimes when changing volume are minor drawbacks as well.


----------



## peterinvan

Who has the S2 in stock at this time?


----------



## Burakk

I’m using S1 and I just saw S2 has LO output with new firmware update. Do you guys know is it true LO or it fixes the volume on max volume ?


----------



## 0rangutan

New firmware out now, 13th Dec:
https://www.lotoo.cn/english/bottom/Service/Download/Hi_Fi_Music_Player/2021/0908/102.html


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## musicday (Dec 13, 2021)

0rangutan said:


> New firmware out now, 13th Dec:
> https://www.lotoo.cn/english/bottom/Service/Download/Hi_Fi_Music_Player/2021/0908/102.html


Cool, i just updated the first post.
2.0.0.4
1. New feature: Line Out Mode.
2. Compatibility improved.


----------



## econaut

Here the info about the line out mode:



> 2.0.0.4
> 1. New feature: Line Out Mode.
> 2. Compatibility improved.
> 
> ...


----------



## twister6

Mentioned this in another thread, I just updated S2 to the latest fw 2.0.0.4 with added LO function, and while A/Bing *4.4mm* output with LO enabled and disabled (volume set to 100), I found it doesn't sound the same.  With S2 volume set to 100 + C9 amp (NuTube mode), I'm hearing some saturation in bass, while when switching S2 to LO w/C9 - I don't hear it. Thus, I have to assume its LO is not just a volume set at max, and when enabled it does something different.  Will see if Lotoo can share more details about it.


----------



## NJoyzAudio

twister6 said:


> Mentioned this in another thread, I just updated S2 to the latest fw 2.0.0.4 with added LO function, and while A/Bing *4.4mm* output with LO enabled and disabled (volume set to 100), I found it doesn't sound the same.  With S2 volume set to 100 + C9 amp (NuTube mode), I'm hearing some saturation in bass, while when switching S2 to LO w/C9 - I don't hear it. Thus, I have to assume its LO is not just a volume set at max, and when enabled it does something different.  Will see if Lotoo can share more details about it.


Twister 6
Thank you for looking into this, as one of my reasons for buying the S2 was to use it to front end certain devices or streaming sites into the C9.
Really curious to read what you find out!


----------



## Burakk

I’m watching this thread for a clear information from lotoo. I’m planning to use it to my c9 as well.


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## econaut (Dec 14, 2021)

I just decided to keep the S2 and send the RU6 back because I prefer the smoother sound of the S2.

But unfortunately I am pretty sure I discovered a bug in the new firmware 2.0.0.4.

I now had it twice in about one hour listening that music playback suddenly stopped and the S2 was only playing a permanent beep until I disconnected it from the smartphone. I reported it to Lotoo and hope they will fix it soon.

So maybe don't update the firmware as of yet, because I didn't have that beep in all the hours listening with 2.0.0.3.

Can't remember what I was listening to the first time it happened, but the second time it was 96 kHz Qobuz with UAPP in bit-perfect.

EDIT: Lotoo responded very quickly to my mail and they are inquiring.


----------



## econaut

I had the beep issue again today. Again with a 96 kHz Qobuz file.

If anyone has Qobuz and UAPP and firmware 2.0.0.4 running: If you could test with 96 kHz streaming, that would be great. But be careful, not too loud, that beeping noise is a pain in the ears. Here the song starts and then after 1-2 minutes it happens.


----------



## twister6 (Dec 16, 2021)

econaut said:


> I had the beep issue again today. Again with a 96 kHz Qobuz file.
> 
> If anyone has Qobuz and UAPP and firmware 2.0.0.4 running: If you could test with 96 kHz streaming, that would be great. But be careful, not too loud, that beeping noise is a pain in the ears. Here the song starts and then after 1-2 minutes it happens.



Running UAPP on my Galaxy S9, logged in to Qobuz with S2 (latest fw), bit-perfect on, playing Ed Sheeran latest album, Hi-Res, shows up as USB DAC 48kHz/24bit.  No beeps here.  Let me know which song you want me to test.


----------



## econaut

twister6 said:


> Running UAPP on my Galaxy S9, logged in to Qobuz with S2 (latest fw), bit-perfect on, playing Ed Sheeran latest album, Hi-Res, shows up as USB DAC 48kHz/24bit.  No beeps here.  Let me know which song you want me to test.


Thanks. Yesterday it happened with this song: "Rockwell - Somebody's watching me" in 96 kHz as can be seen in the attached screenshot. I made the screenshot when it was playing the beep already, so the phone and UAPP don't freeze.

And I made a video of it. I made it with one hand and my huge Galaxy S7+ Tablet, so it's a little clumsy, but you get the idea. The song shown in the video is already the next song in my 80s playlist which is 44.1. So UAPP kept playing, but the beep started when playing the Rockwell song.



Of course I also send the video to Lotoo. Another album where it happened is Dangerous by Michael Jackson in 96 kHz. Maybe it has to do with Michael Jackson singing


----------



## econaut

I was also able to replicate the beep issue with the following setup:

Windows 10 PC > Roon > Lotoo PAW S2.

Again with Qobuz "Somebody's watching me" in 96 kHz.


----------



## twister6

econaut said:


> Thanks. Yesterday it happened with this song: "Rockwell - Somebody's watching me" in 96 kHz as can be seen in the attached screenshot. I made the screenshot when it was playing the beep already, so the phone and UAPP don't freeze.
> 
> And I made a video of it. I made it with one hand and my huge Galaxy S7+ Tablet, so it's a little clumsy, but you get the idea. The song shown in the video is already the next song in my 80s playlist which is 44.1. So UAPP kept playing, but the beep started when playing the Rockwell song.
> 
> ...




Just played this classic track (Galaxy S9, UAPP in bit-perfect mode, S2 connected using stock usb-c to usb-c otg cable) three times in a loop, and I don't hear any "beeps".  I mean, there are synthesizer bleeps  but no beeps.  Any particular time spot in the track where you consistently hear the beep, or is it random?

Considering a very specific scenario of playing Qobuz through UAPP where you hear a beep with 96kHz tracks, could it be related to some setting in UAPP that causes that?  Can you toggle bit-perfect or any other settings?  Also, UAPP developer, @Davy Wentzler is active member of this community, and maybe he has some suggestion for you?

I tried to play this particular track you mentioned, multiple times in a loop, and actually preferer it through UAPP over directly from Qobuz, and I don't hear any beeps at all.


----------



## econaut

twister6 said:


> Just played this classic track (Galaxy S9, UAPP in bit-perfect mode, S2 connected using stock usb-c to usb-c otg cable) three times in a loop, and I don't hear any "beeps".  I mean, there are synthesizer bleeps  but no beeps.  Any particular time spot in the track where you consistently hear the beep, or is it random?
> 
> Considering a very specific scenario of playing Qobuz through UAPP where you hear a beep with 96kHz tracks, could it be related to some setting in UAPP that causes that?  Can you toggle bit-perfect or any other settings?  Also, UAPP developer, @Davy Wentzler is active member of this community, and maybe he has some suggestion for you?
> 
> I tried to play this particular track you mentioned, multiple times in a loop, and actually preferer it through UAPP over directly from Qobuz, and I don't hear any beeps at all.


Thanks for inquiring.

Check the video I made, there you can hear that constant beep.

And I also managed to get that beep with Roon as I wrote one post above, so it's nothing Android/UAPP related.

Either my S2 is faulty, or there is something wrong with the firmware or maybe the firmware update went wrong on my unit.


----------



## twister6

For those who are interested, my full detailed review of Lotoo PAW S2 is up!


----------



## peterinvan

twister6 said:


> For those who are interested, my full detailed review of Lotoo PAW S2 is up!



Thanks for the review and comparisons.

"_switching from 4.4mm connected directly to 3.5mm with an adapter_"
Is this representative of true balanced output?  I have a hunch that joining left and right channels on a balanced output may be damaging to your device.


----------



## twister6 (Dec 21, 2021)

peterinvan said:


> Thanks for the review and comparisons.
> 
> "_switching from 4.4mm connected directly to 3.5mm with an adapter_"
> Is this representative of true balanced output?  I have a hunch that joining left and right channels on a balanced output may be damaging to your device.



There shouldn't be any damage when using 4.4mm terminated cable vs using 4.4mm to 3.5mm adapter with the same cable to connect to 3.5mm port of S2.

I just updated my review to make that section less confusing


----------



## KiD~21

Hello to Everyone here,

Although I'm a newcomer, I've been reading multiple Head-Fi forums for several months. 

It all has started with my visit to the local store and service center in Moscow, Russia where I had a possibility to try out some higher-end IEMs, DAPs and other audio gear like dongle DAC-Amp and Bluetooth receivers for mobile use.

I ended up ordering the JH Audio custom earphones, and I also purchased the Lotoo PAW S2 from MusicTeck.

The order was placed on Black Friday, but international delivery took longer than usual. 

So by now I've spent just a week with my S2, however I want to share my initial impressions with you.
I've also posted my thoughts in the comments section on the MusicTeck website. 

I enjoy the build quality and the design of the S2.

As for its sound quality and features, I would add in that it has exceeded my expectations.

The S2 was supposed to feed my IEMs only (now I'm primarily using the Sennheiser IE80, but I will switch up to JH16V2 pretty soon).

In practice the S2 offered more than enough output power being paired up with my full-sized though not so demanding Pioneer SE-MS5T headphones.

It's performing well with my Android smartphone. And the remote control buttons are really useful.

The only thing I'm worried about is the power consumption. Because in the high gain mode and the volume being set on ~ 50%, the S2 has drained the power of my Galaxy S9+ by approximately 30% in just one hour or so...

The smartphone is almost 3 years in use, and perhaps the battery is not as strong as it was back in the day, but you will need some true powerhouse if you wish to get a long listening time while on the go.

I've yet to test the newly added Line-Out feature, but even now I'm already impressed by this little thing.

All in all, it's a good middle ground between such a miserable source as the most of modern smartphones are, and a mid-tier DAP (I'm keeping in mind Sony NW-ZX507).

Given the S2 is one of the class-leading gadgets by the end of 2021, it's nice to see this direction chosen by many producers of hi-fi audio gear.

Finally I want to thank everyone here who shared their opinions, because it helped me to make my choice (the right one, I think).


----------



## econaut

KiD~21 said:


> Hello to Everyone here,
> 
> Although I'm a newcomer, I've been reading multiple Head-Fi forums for several months.
> 
> ...


30% in 1 hour seems a bit much to me, but I have not kept time with my S2. 

I don't know if low gain saves battery, but I'd give it a try. Also because of sound quality  A firmware update might be of help, although I have not checked the relase notes. 

Mind that I have this beep issue with 96kHz streaming from Quobuz. This is reproducible with my S2 (with UAPP on Android and Roon on Windows) but I have not heard of others having this issue. I think it came with 2.0.0.4 update, but it might have been there before and I just did not listen to any 96 kHz Quobuz content in the short time I had the older firmware installed.


----------



## KiD~21

econaut said:


> 30% in 1 hour seems a bit much to me, but I have not kept time with my S2.
> 
> I don't know if low gain saves battery, but I'd give it a try. Also because of sound quality  A firmware update might be of help, although I have not checked the relase notes.
> 
> Mind that I have this beep issue with 96kHz streaming from Quobuz. This is reproducible with my S2 (with UAPP on Android and Roon on Windows) but I have not heard of others having this issue. I think it came with 2.0.0.4 update, but it might have been there before and I just did not listen to any 96 kHz Quobuz content in the short time I had the older firmware installed.


I was talking about the old Android smartphone with just a 3500 mAh battery while the more recent phones come with up to 6000 mAh.

Since I think of upgrading it in 2022, hopefully the battery drain won't be the issue no more.

Do you think the gain level is affecting the sound quality?
I haven't noticed much difference, but I definitely need more time with the S2.

I haven't mentioned the firmware... I have initially checked the S2 right out from the box, but then I upgraded it to the latest version the same evening and tested again.

I think those removed EQ presets won't be missed much.
Still the Line-Out is a fair trade-off.

I haven't tried Quobuz yet.
TIDAL is my primary source of music. 
Therefore I can't comment on your issue.

Everything is working fine for me.
The only issue I also had was the short hiccup of sound in the beginning of each MQA track.
It can be noticed both in TIDAL app and in UAPP.
But it's a minor flaw that can be neglected.


----------



## econaut

KiD~21 said:


> I was talking about the old Android smartphone with just a 3500 mAh battery while the more recent phones come with up to 6000 mAh.
> 
> Since I think of upgrading it in 2022, hopefully the battery drain won't be the issue no more.
> 
> ...


Concerning gain level I might have thought about the recommendation for the RU6 where it's low gain.

Also an interesting read in favor of low gain:

https://hifigo.com/blogs/guide/a-be...ne-amplifier-terms-volume-vs-gain-vs-headroom

I just use low gain because I don't need high gain with my S2 and RU6. In the end everyone has to decide for oneself if one hears a difference, which setting sounds better and which one is more convenient.


----------



## Bitsir

So, I just purchased the MEST MK2 and it's on its way to me.

I'm looking for a high end dongle to pair it with and I'm currently deciding between the W2, S2 and RU6.

As far as I've gathered, the MEST MK2 is a very revealing, detailed set with extremely vivid imaging, soundstage expansion and tangible feel of notes and instruments. That's a characteristic I absolutely don't want to lose - but rather accentuate.

With that in mind, it seems like the RU6 is the clear choice as it has been said to offer most width (or at least comparable with W2) and absolutely most 3D palpability, with best life-like grit, viscerality, texture, punch etc. At the expense of some fine-granular, delicate "polish".

I guess what I'm asking is - would the RU6 be too much of a good thing and perhaps the smoother, warmer, more polished and organic presentation of the S2 would pair better with the already vivid MEST MK2?


----------



## OspreyAndy

musicday said:


> Not as powerful as the W2 but some people will consider that enough and the MQA decoding 4X is still there
> W2 230 mW @32 ohm 4.4
> S2 150 mW @ 32 ohm 4.4


On paper does not necessarily translates into actual implementation. I have PAW S1, S2 and W2 and it is without a doubt the S2 is actually more powerful than W2 any which way I am hearing it. The W2 while performs amazing with an already very resolving and efficient IEMs, it fell short driving more demanding stuffs like the Orthodynamics Magnetic Planar of Fostex T40RP MK3 (50 Ohm, 91db sensitivity) or TIN HiFi P1. W2 sounded meek and lean, lacking authority in dynamic transients. The same can be said of S1 which is even weaker. However I must give the thumbs up to Lotoo for bumping the power of S2 to 150 mW per channel (300 mW combined) and this makes it working much better with that stubborn planar now, definitely better than W2. However the very best is still CEntrance DACport HD Single Ended 3.5mm with that Class A 775 mW of power, nothing can beat DACport HD as of yet when it comes to balancing the act of driving both highly sensitive to the most stubborn while keeping fidelity level exceedingly high. Even Ovidius B1 at 480 mW Single Ended is still slightly superior than either W2 or S2


----------



## Bitsir

OspreyAndy said:


> On paper does not necessarily translates into actual implementation. I have PAW S1, S2 and W2 and it is without a doubt the S2 is actually more powerful than W2 any which way I am hearing it. The W2 while performs amazing with an already very resolving and efficient IEMs, it fell short driving more demanding stuffs like the Orthodynamics Magnetic Planar of Fostex T40RP MK3 (50 Ohm, 91db sensitivity) or TIN HiFi P1. W2 sounded meek and lean, lacking authority in dynamic transients. The same can be said of S1 which is even weaker. However I must give the thumbs up to Lotoo for bumping the power of S2 to 150 mW per channel (300 mW combined) and this makes it working much better with that stubborn planar now, definitely better than W2. However the very best is still CEntrance DACport HD Single Ended 3.5mm with that Class A 775 mW of power, nothing can beat DACport HD as of yet when it comes to balancing the act of driving both highly sensitive to the most stubborn while keeping fidelity level exceedingly high. Even Ovidius B1 at 480 mW Single Ended is still slightly superior than either W2 or S2


Hi Andy, thanks for your effort.

I found this description & comparison between RU6 & W2 and I am wondering if you largely agree with it:

_"RU6 = more realistic sound, horn speaker dynamics, less detail & refinement, far more excitement & startling factor. Faster with more air & less processed, potentially fatiguing.

W2 = less realistic, conventional speaker dynamics, more detail & refinement, far more delicacy & smooth polish. Slower with less air & more processed, easy to listen to."*_

Also, how does the S2 mostly differ from them?


----------



## OspreyAndy

Bitsir said:


> Hi Andy, thanks for your effort.
> 
> I found this description & comparison between RU6 & W2 and I am wondering if you largely agree with it:
> 
> ...


Thanks. And I agree with you. However the listening device you use play larger role in the sound definition. The source always aim to be as transparent as possible. For example RU6 can be as clinically resolving when used with Etymotic ER4SR or Shure KSE1500, but will be more musical and less precision with the likes of TIN HiFi T3+.

In summary the S2 to me is the smoothest sounding Dongle available now that still offer amazing articulation of details and imaging - not an easy thing to achieve as many tried to do this and ended up sounding dull edged. S2 strength is NOT to splash things out with pronounced crispness - this will appeal a lot to those preferring their music smooth and pristine at the same time. Audio is a subjective thing after all, the definition of indulgence ultimately decided by the listener taste and sensitivity level to sonic responses


----------



## musicday

Some prefer RU6, others S2 or W2.They are all really good dongle dacs.


----------



## Bitsir

musicday said:


> Some prefer RU6, others S2 or W2.They are all really good dongle dacs.


My take-away judging by written impressions is that they all play in the same ballpark with slightly different tilts. 

The RU6 is giving me the impression of presenting music same way horn speakers do: with unparalleled immediacy and rawness (at the expense of finesse).
I love music when it grabs you by the shoulder and immerses you viscerally and so I think the RU6 is going to fit me the best, all things considered.


----------



## utdeep

Is there any way to lock this into UAC1 mode?


----------



## Pelilin (Dec 28, 2021)

I bought the lotoo paw s2 are there any way to downgrade firmware?


----------



## Gus141

Pelilin said:


> …  I think there is a bug it suprise me a lot. my gosh. I hope this dont happen again.


It will probably happen again. It happens to me too;  @econaut mentioned it first here and is in contact with Lotoo. I’m patiently awaiting a firmware fix.


----------



## Charlie Norwood

twister6 said:


> For those who are interested, my full detailed review of Lotoo PAW S2 is up!


Excellent review. Could you possibly share a little more about the 4.4 LO sound and how it compares to the 4.4 LO on the 6000 when paired to cayin c9? Would the s2 be as good or nearly as good as the 6000 when just looking at LO performance? I just got a c9 today and hoping the s2 can be the desktop and transportable solution as I don’t need another full dap like the 6000 when I just want usb dac with a clean 4.4 LO when streaming via uapp or Roon.


----------



## econaut

Gus141 said:


> It will probably happen again. It happens to me too;  @econaut mentioned it first here and is in contact with Lotoo. I’m patiently awaiting a firmware fix.


Can you confirm that it only happens with Qobuz 96kHz content?

I encourage you to report your findings also to Lotoo, so they get a little more pressure to fix this.

Concerning _downgrading _Lotoo answered me _this_. I didn't bother to ask again if flashing an older firmware would work, because I don't have a file with which I could try.



> Hello Mr. ...,
> 
> We feel sorry to tell  you that we don't support the firmware download for our all products' firmware.
> 
> ...


----------



## twister6

Charlie Norwood said:


> Excellent review. Could you possibly share a little more about the 4.4 LO sound and how it compares to the 4.4 LO on the 6000 when paired to cayin c9? Would the s2 be as good or nearly as good as the 6000 when just looking at LO performance? I just got a c9 today and hoping the s2 can be the desktop and transportable solution as I don’t need another full dap like the 6000 when I just want usb dac with a clean 4.4 LO when streaming via uapp or Roon.



If you are looking for a clean LO to pair up with your C9, there is no competition between S2 and paw6k. 6k has an advanced dedicated LO functionality with either fixed voltage (different settings) or variable output control. And it is a lot cleaner. In my review the mentioned similarity between S2 and paw6k is relative to headphone output and with specific pair of IEMs. For external amp like C9, given a choice between these two sources, paw6k wins hands down and its LO pairs up great with C9.


----------



## Gus141 (Jan 26, 2022)

econaut said:


> Can you confirm that it only happens with Qobuz 96kHz content?
> 
> I encourage you to report your findings also to Lotoo, so they get a little more pressure to fix this.
> 
> Concerning _downgrading _Lotoo answered me _this_. I didn't bother to ask again if flashing an older firmware would work, because I don't have a file with which I could try.


**EDIT** 1-26-2022: Firmware 2.0.0.5 issued on Jan 26 fixes the issues I encountered and explained in the post below. So, don’t read this post; just update your firmware and enjoy the S2. 

——————————————————————-
S2 ‘Continuous-Buzz-Tone’ bug testing:

The buzz-tone bug is elusive and doesn’t show with any predictable repeatability for a given track, but appears all of a sudden after playing a whole playlist or album for a while, and usually doesn’t occur on the same song. So I decided to troubleshoot this issue by playing the same album all the way through for each streaming service I use (Apple Music, TIDAL, Qobuz) I played the entire album ‘America’ by Thirty Seconds to Mars (96kHz version). I chose a 96Khz album since others said they had problems with that sample rate on S2. I may try a dedicated test like this with other refresh rates at another time, but right now I’m setting the S2 aside and using other kit until they put out a firmware update (except I may continue to use the S2 with TIDAL, but not other services, see below).

Here are my results:

[this was connecting an S2 via USB-C to an iPad Pro 12.9” 2020 via the included (new version) Lotoo USB-C-to-USB-C cable]

*Apple Music*: the ‘America’ album played almost all the way to the very end without a problem until 44 seconds left on the last song…and then the *continuous tone sound *started and only stopped by pulling the S2 out of the USB-C socket. The music progress counter continued to show the song was still playing; the player never locked up.
I plugged the S2 back in and queued up and played just the last 2 songs on the album without issue.
I played the last song again without issue, so it’s not a song problem but maybe an issue with playing 96kHz music over a duration of time causing maybe a memory overrun or some other software issue [?]

*TIDAL*: I chose the ‘Master’ version of this album since it unfolds on the iOS device to 96kHz via the iOS TIDAL native app before passing it to USB output (so no passthrough from iOS devices and MQA decode on the S2, just rendering; shows on the S2 display as ‘MQA 96K/32b’ on the first line and ‘OFS / 4X’ on the second line)
*The entire album played all the way through* without an issue via TIDAL from my iPad
Since Qobuz-sourced 96kHz music had problems (see next section) yet MQA material did not, it could be an AD Filter issue since MQA uses their own proprietary upsampling filters [?]

*Qobuz*: 96kHz High-Res version. Results:
First track, 2 minutes in, got the *buzz-tone*; app still showing I was playing the song; disconnected S2, then reconnected and played song through without issues so continued playing the album
After getting through 3 tracks, the 4th song on the Album caused the *buzz-tone* 18 seconds into the song; disconnected and continued to play the Album
Got to the end without further incident.

I haven’t done these test exclusively with non-96kHz music, but I also don’t remember getting this buzz-tone with anything but 96kHz material (more testing is needed). Usually my listening style is more playlist-based with mixed sample rates and I have gotten the buzz doing that but don’t remember what sample rate was playing at the time.

Quite frankly, I’m done with the S2 until a new firmware is out. It’s too distracting wondering whether my music selection is going to result in an audio problem, especially considering my W2 dongle works flawlessly and sounds better.

Cheers,
Gus


----------



## Thermist

Is anyone finding that the new software update is a step backwards in SQ? I updated to the newest with line-out mode, and everything sounds drier and edgier. Also, weirdly, I no longer see the LO option when I cycle through the options with the function button, though I did right after the update.


----------



## Thermist

Whoops, forgot that you have to unplug the headphone jack to see the line out option. Still curious if others have noticed degraded SQ…


----------



## Gus141

econaut said:


> …
> Concerning _downgrading _Lotoo answered me _this_. I didn't bother to ask again if flashing an older firmware would work, because I don't have a file with which I could try.


Yeah, they don’t support downgrading on any of their kit. I did try though, and it failed.


----------



## Richiyaado

Since the most recent firmware update, the sudden, ear-shredding tone has occurred twice while listening to a streaming playlist on Apple Music. One assumes Lotoo is aware of the problem, and will quickly provide a remedy.


----------



## twister6

Richiyaado said:


> Since the most recent firmware update, the sudden, ear-shredding tone has occurred twice while listening to a streaming playlist on Apple Music. One assumes Lotoo is aware of the problem, and will quickly provide a remedy.



Yes, heard they are looking into this, with a fix in the future update, some kind of a rare bug related only to 96kHz files.


----------



## Thermist

Thermist said:


> Whoops, forgot that you have to unplug the headphone jack to see the line out option. Still curious if others have noticed degraded SQ…


I’m embarrassed to say that the S2 with bad new firmware sounds great now… I guess it just needed burn-in. Weird, that, but I’m pretty sure I heard that. Got the loud tone once now as well…


----------



## Logu4

Hallo,
Does someone with a lotoo Paw S2 has a movement in the connectors, both jacks move in and out simultaneously half a millimeter or less? Thank you.


----------



## Audiophile PT

Logu4 said:


> Hallo,
> Does someone with a lotoo Paw S2 has a movement in the connectors, both jacks move in and out simultaneously half a millimeter or less? Thank you.



I confirm that mine also has that movement...


----------



## Logu4

Audiophile PT said:


> I confirm that mine also has that movement...


Thank you. I suppose it is common "feature" then, I was thinking about exchanging it, but this will not be necessary. 
This said, I am pleased with the product. I find it quite expensive though, but it seems to be the only one with playback controlls. 
Soundwise the perceived difference on the 3.5mm jack compared to the output of my Samsung M51 not big, mit 300 Euro big. A little bit of bezzer bass (more defined), Al little bit of more definition in all frequencies and  a little crispier and more natural timber I would say, but these are really very small differences and no blind test. Tested with UAPP in bit perfect mode.


----------



## musicday

Happy New Year !


----------



## Audiophile PT

Logu4 said:


> Thank you. I suppose it is common "feature" then, I was thinking about exchanging it, but this will not be necessary.
> This said, I am pleased with the product. I find it quite expensive though, but it seems to be the only one with playback controlls.
> Soundwise the perceived difference on the 3.5mm jack compared to the output of my Samsung M51 not big, mit 300 Euro big. A little bit of bezzer bass (more defined), Al little bit of more definition in all frequencies and  a little crispier and more natural timber I would say, but these are really very small differences and no blind test. Tested with UAPP in bit perfect mode.



The 4.4mm balanced port and the filter presets were the main key factor.
I do hope to see a new firmware update soon (correcting some of the issues already reported).
Happy New Year !


----------



## utdeep

Any word on a firmware update?  I am trying to figure out whether I should keep this device or return it.


----------



## musicday

utdeep said:


> Any word on a firmware update?  I am trying to figure out whether I should keep this device or return it.


Being a Lotoo product, yes. Just wait a bit longer.


----------



## JML (Jan 5, 2022)

I'm waiting for one of these to arrive this week. Seems like it ought to be a good sound match for my FiiO FD5 and ATH WP-900 with their 4.4mm balanced Pentaconn connectors, when using my iPhone, iPad, or MacBook as a source (and also the only unit for which I can do firmware updates using macOS).


----------



## JML

None of my Lightning to USB-C cables will pass a signal from the S2, so I'm waiting for the Lotoo cable. Anyone find any other OTG cables that will work?


----------



## NJoyzAudio

JML said:


> None of my Lightning to USB-C cables will pass a signal from the S2, so I'm waiting for the Lotoo cable. Anyone find any other OTG cables that will work?


JML

For me so far only the Lotoo Cable and using the DD-Hifi TC28i (Lightning to USB-C) adapter work.
When needed and I use the DD-Hifi adapter ANY USB-C to USB-C OTG cable I have handy works with the S2

I've got a number of Lightning to USB-C cables that work for other devices but are intermittent to does not work with both the S1 and S2.
Hope this info helps


----------



## twister6

JML said:


> None of my Lightning to USB-C cables will pass a signal from the S2, so I'm waiting for the Lotoo cable. Anyone find any other OTG cables that will work?



Lotoo v2 lightning to usb-c works perfectly with S2.  And so does cables from DDHifi, OE Audio, and optional Cayin cable.  But since you got S2, stick with Lotoo and get yourself their updated cable.


----------



## Thermist

Hello all,

I’ve been using an iPhone with my Lotoo PAW S2 dangle and deploying a variety of tricks to get better and better sound from my Plunge Audio Universal Planar IEM (independently powering the Lotoo with its in own battery, adding the Oriolus BA300S tube output stage).

I’ve been very happy with the results, but, like NJoyzAudio and JML, I keep breaking the data conductors in my Lightning to USB-C cables. In three or four months I’ve broken three Lotoo cables (2 long and 1 short), one ddHIFI, one Penon, one Woo Audio, and five Meernova from Amazon (this is a collection of some of the cables I’ve broken).

I’ve had the best luck with the Woo and the Meernova’s from Amazon, but even they only last weeks. With experience, I’ve learned to minimize cable movement, and that’s helped, but I still have to unplug the lightening connector to charge my phone.

I’m thinking of buying a DAP just to avoid this problem. Any ideas?

Thanks,

Thermist


----------



## JML (Jan 16, 2022)

The S2 (using the Lotoo Lightning-to-USB-C cable) sounds just wonderful with my FiiO FD5 (copper FiiO cable, noted below and in this thread, which tames the highs of the FD5), listening to Qobuz from my iPhone. I have the FiiO OTG cable and DD-HiFi adapter coming this week, as "insurance" or backup. Thanks to this thread noting the "beep" problems with 2.0.0.4, I updated the firmware only to 2.0.0.3. Hopefully Lotoo will come out quickly with 2.0.0.5 to fix the problem.

The short Lotoo USB-C to USB-C seems to be directional when connected to my MacBook (I did not try the long one). I tested several USB-C 3.2 and Thunderbolt 3 cables I had on hand and found three others that work fine, and one other USB-C cable (not 3.2) that didn't. When I use my MacBook or iPad, I want to use a cable that is mid-way between the lengths of the two supplied Lotoo cables (I also found some short and mid-length - .45 ft and .72 ft - flat and very strong USB-C 3.2 cables on Amazon that work fine).

It would be nice if Lotoo made a longer Lightning to USB-C OTG cable, but hopefully the DD-HiFi adapter will work fine when I need a longer cable for my iPhone than the short one they supply. And I worry about the life of the existing cable, given how thin it is.


----------



## Logu4 (Jan 13, 2022)

econaut said:


> 30% in 1 hour seems a bit much to me, but I have not kept time with my S2.
> 
> I don't know if low gain saves battery, but I'd give it a try. Also because of sound quality  A firmware update might be of help, although I have not checked the relase notes.
> 
> Mind that I have this beep issue with 96kHz streaming from Quobuz. This is reproducible with my S2 (with UAPP on Android and Roon on Windows) but I have not heard of others having this issue. I think it came with 2.0.0.4 update, but it might have been there before and I just did not listen to any 96 kHz Quobuz content in the short time I had the older firmware installed.


Hallo,

I also updated to firmware 2.0.0.4 and have the beep issue now as well. This was not there with the old firmware for sure, because I am having the issue with files which I played bevor the update.

You have to unplug the S2 to stop the beeping, no puse/FF/RW helps.

These are locally stored files with 96Khz playing via UAPP on a Samsung M51 mobile phone.

This is very disappointing, I have no 3.5mm jack cables to listen directly through the phone, only 4.4 pentacon balanced cables on my iem and headphone.
I can literally not listen on shuffle or to my 96KHz files any more. 

I hope that lotoo is aware of the problem and will bring a firmware update very soon.


----------



## JML (Jan 19, 2022)

Has anyone found a nice small protective case in which to carry the S2 and a pair of cables?  There are silicon cases for the S1, but they're made for three buttons and not four.

Until a form-fitting silicone case is available, I'd love to find a small hard-shell ballistic-nylon case that can fit the S2 and a pair of cables.


----------



## utdeep

The S1 leather case is great with the S2 and a single cable. 
https://zeppelinandco.com/products/lotoo-paw-s1-case


----------



## gylyf

Logu4 said:


> Hallo,
> 
> I also updated to firmware 2.0.0.4 and have the beep issue now as well. This was not there with the old firmware for sure, because I am having the issue with files which I played bevor the update.
> 
> ...


I experienced this issue for the first time this morning, streaming 96kHz Apple Music files. Very unpleasant - I hope there’s a FW fix in the works.


----------



## JML (Jan 24, 2022)

The FiiO OTG cable and DD-HiFi adapter work fine, but they have a larger/wider section around the Lightning plug, so they may not fit on an iPhone with a case. The Lotoo cable at the Lightning end is smaller and it fits fine in the opening on my Pitaka MagEZ Case Pro carbon fiber case; the FiiO is an extremely tight fit, and the DD-HiFi won't fit at all in the case's opening.


----------



## utdeep

THis is a long time for a firmware bug and a Loto device.  I haven’t updated the firmware on my lotoo so I can wait until we confirm there is no problem on a new firware.


----------



## twister6

utdeep said:


> THis is a long time for a firmware bug and a Loto device.  I haven’t updated the firmware on my lotoo so I can wait until we confirm there is no problem on a new firware.



Are you talking about 96k apple music files?  I think any day now, but also keep in mind, CNY around the corner which could delay things.


----------



## utdeep

Yup - that's the bug.  I think it's with all 96kHz music and not just Apple Music based on this:
     Post #270 of 296


----------



## buggy

Lotoo has released new firmware for the paw s2. Announced from their facebook - https://www.facebook.com/lotoopaw/


----------



## Audiophile PT

Link for the new firmware released - Lotoo PAW S2 (Version 2.0.0.5):

http://www.lotoo.cn/english/bottom/Service/Download/Hi_Fi_Music_Player/2021/0908/102.html

2.0.0.5
1. System stability improved.
2. Bug fix on some 96kHz files that have odd audio issues.


----------



## Ten Pence Piece

Does the Play/Pause button work for anyone?

I have tried multiple firmware versions (v2.0.0.4, v2.0.0.5) on multiple devices (Windows 11 PC, OnePlus 6 Android 11 Phone) all through Tidal (latest updated version on both Phone and PC with exclusive mode granted) but the Play/Pause button never does anything.

Everything else seems to work flawlessly so far - bit perfect playback, mqa, volume control, exclusive mode, etc. just the Play/Pause button isn't working...


----------



## Audiophile PT

Ten Pence Piece said:


> Does the Play/Pause button work for anyone?
> 
> I have tried multiple firmware versions (v2.0.0.4, v2.0.0.5) on multiple devices (Windows 11 PC, OnePlus 6 Android 11 Phone) all through Tidal (latest updated version on both Phone and PC with exclusive mode granted) but the Play/Pause button never does anything.
> 
> Everything else seems to work flawlessly so far - bit perfect playback, mqa, volume control, exclusive mode, etc. just the Play/Pause button isn't working...


Here on IOS iPad the Play-Pause button is working without any problem (Firmware version 2.0.0.5)


----------



## utdeep

Awesome!  New firmware - looking forward to seeing more feedback on this thread so I can be sure of whether to install it.


----------



## Mithrandir1980

Ten Pence Piece said:


> Does the Play/Pause button work for anyone?
> 
> I have tried multiple firmware versions (v2.0.0.4, v2.0.0.5) on multiple devices (Windows 11 PC, OnePlus 6 Android 11 Phone) all through Tidal (latest updated version on both Phone and PC with exclusive mode granted) but the Play/Pause button never does anything.
> 
> Everything else seems to work flawlessly so far - bit perfect playback, mqa, volume control, exclusive mode, etc. just the Play/Pause button isn't working...


Yes, it works for me.  It has to be something wrong with the button.

 Has it never worked for you?


----------



## Ten Pence Piece (Jan 26, 2022)

Mithrandir1980 said:


> Yes, it works for me.  It has to be something wrong with the button.
> 
> Has it never worked for you?


It's never worked on any of my devices 

Are you using android/PC and tidal? Wondering if it's the device itself or the integration with what it's connected to...

**Update: It does work in both Spotify and Tidal but only when Exclusive mode is not in use i.e. when not enabling bit-perfect playback. So that shows the button is fine but there is a bug in either the firmware or Tidal when in exclusive mode!


----------



## JML

Full review here.


----------



## Gus141

Firmware 2.0.0.5 has fixed all the weirdness I encountered with 96kHz files streaming from Qobuz and Apple Music to the S2 (I never had any issues with TIDAL on the S2). 

The S2 is back in my rotation!

Thanks Lotoo and beta testers!


----------



## mamema

Thermist said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I’ve been using an iPhone with my Lotoo PAW S2 dangle and deploying a variety of tricks to get better and better sound from my Plunge Audio Universal Planar IEM (independently powering the Lotoo with its in own battery, adding the Oriolus BA300S tube output stage).
> 
> ...


i'm in the same boat as you. My first original cable is useless after 4 walks.... so i can either spend min 15$ every three months for a new cable or eliminate one cable connection and buy a DAP. I have a Dan Clark Aeon 2 Open Headset, so it needs a bit of power..... 
Any frecommendations for a DAP whioc has the same soundquality as a LoToo S1/S2?


----------



## musicday (Feb 3, 2022)

The link for latest firmware 2.0.0.5 been added to the first post of the thread.


----------



## Logu4

mamema said:


> i'm in the same boat as you. My first original cable is useless after 4 walks.... so i can either spend min 15$ every three months for a new cable or eliminate one cable connection and buy a DAP. I have a Dan Clark Aeon 2 Open Headset, so it needs a bit of power.....
> Any frecommendations for a DAP whioc has the same soundquality as a LoToo S1/S2?


My cable broke quite quickly as well, one week after purchase the signal got cut from time to time. Two more weeks later and it was unusable. 
I have a Sony WM1A which was supposed to be replaced by the S2. The cable issues and the issue with the 96 kHz made me change my mind. Also, I felt the sound quality of the Sony was ever so slightly to my taste. I felt it was a tiny bit more natural, a tiny bit more refined, a tiny bit more laid back. This what I heard.


----------



## mamema

Logu4 said:


> My cable broke quite quickly as well, one week after purchase the signal got cut from time to time. Two more weeks later and it was unusable.
> I have a Sony WM1A which was supposed to be replaced by the S2. The cable issues and the issue with the 96 kHz made me change my mind. Also, I felt the sound quality of the Sony was ever so slightly to my taste. I felt it was a tiny bit more natural, a tiny bit more refined, a tiny bit more laid back. This what I heard.


thanks, not quite clear from your answer, do you have cable issues with USB-C or lighting cables?


----------



## Logu4

Sorry, it iwas the usb-c cable, the short one.


----------



## mamema

Logu4 said:


> Sorry, it iwas the usb-c cable, the short one.


which is even more "disturbing", as i had the impression, that the Lightning Connections are more sensitive than the USB-C's are more robust


----------



## JML (Feb 7, 2022)

There are many short USB-C cables that will work fine, including flat and round variants. I tested several that I had on hand and I found that USB-C 3.2 Gen. 2 and Thunderbolt 3 cables all worked perfectly.

The Lightning OTG to USB-C cables are a different story - hard to find and apparently quite fragile.


----------



## Logu4

After my original lotoo s2 usb-c cable broke, I used the usb-c to usb-b cable which came with my Anker battery with the ifi usb-c OTG cable and it worked just fine.


----------



## PhenixS1970

The Fiio Lt-L1 lightning to usb C cable is a good one.  Cheaper than the Lotoo offering and better build quality.


----------



## JML

PhenixS1970 said:


> The Fiio Lt-L1 lightning to usb C cable is a good one.  Cheaper than the Lotoo offering and better build quality.


I agree, but the Lightning housing of the FiiO is wider than the housing on the Lotoo, so it may not fit in the opening on some phone cases.


----------



## PhenixS1970

JML said:


> I agree, but the Lightning housing of the FiiO is wider than the housing on the Lotoo, so it may not fit in the opening on some phone cases.


That is true…didn’t consider that .


----------



## jwbrent

S2 just ordered. I’m getting the new iPhone SE on Tuesday to use with it.


----------



## mvvRAZ

Just saw the S2 has its own dedicated thread - been absolutely blown away by the sound quality ever since I got it a few days ago, here are my impressions:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/razs-totl-review-and-rambles-thread.916021/page-222#post-16842746


----------



## jwbrent

mvvRAZ said:


> Just saw the S2 has its own dedicated thread - been absolutely blown away by the sound quality ever since I got it a few days ago, here are my impressions:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/razs-totl-review-and-rambles-thread.916021/page-222#post-16842746



I just received mine as well after previously owning the S1. The S2 and its cables are better designed to eliminate any RF noise, so I don’t have to use a choke/ferrite core as I did with the S1. I initially didn’t think the remote control feature would be something I would use much, but I was wrong. 😎


----------



## mvvRAZ

jwbrent said:


> I just received mine as well after previously owning the S1. The S2 and its cables are better designed to eliminate any RF noise, so I don’t have to use a choke/ferrite core as I did with the S1. I initially didn’t think the remote control feature would be something I would use much, but I was wrong. 😎


Now that you say I just realized that I haven’t had any RF noise while using it in my pocket along with my phone… will update the impressions post to account for that; thanks!


----------



## twister6

jwbrent said:


> S2 just ordered. I’m getting the new iPhone SE on Tuesday to use with it.



That's one of the advantages of S2, drawing less current from your phone (around 90mA), making it friendlier with iPhones in comparison to other dongles that draw over 120-130mA.  Playback control button is also very useful since you don't have to tap/wake the display on your phone to pause or skip.  And indeed, S2 features their v2 cable with upgraded shielding.


----------



## jwbrent

twister6 said:


> That's one of the advantages of S2, drawing less current from your phone (around 90mA), making it friendlier with iPhones in comparison to other dongles that draw over 120-130mA.  Playback control button is also very useful since you don't have to tap/wake the display on your phone to pause or skip.  And indeed, S2 features their v2 cable with upgraded shielding.



Yeah, I recall when you first posted about the S2 I questioned its value compared to the $100 less S1 and whether the remote function was useful to me; I’m glad I upgraded. 👍


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (Mar 14, 2022)

jwbrent said:


> Yeah, I recall when you first posted about the S2 I questioned its value compared to the $100 less S1 and whether the remote function was useful to me; I’m glad I upgraded. 👍


When I bought the S2, I had both the S1 and W2.   Before I got the S2, my preferred dongle was the W2.    Then, the S2 became my favorite dongle.   Then, the RU6 came out and I decided I liked the RU6 even better than the S2.  All 3 of the S2, W2 and RU6 are to me at the same level of quality of sound.  It just depends on what sound attributes you prefer.    I love the bass of the S2.  I love the natural timbre and treble of the RU6.


----------



## twister6

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> When I bought the S2, I had both the S1 and W2.   Before I got the S2, my preferred dongle was the W2.    Then, the S2 became my favorite dongle.   Then, the RU6 came out and I decided I liked the RU6 even better than the S2.  All 3 of the S2, W2 and RU6 are to me at the same level of quality of sound.  It just depends on what sound attributes you prefer.    I love the bass of the S2.  I love the natural timbre and treble of the RU6.



You wonna collect them all after reading my UA5 review?  j/k...  I need to catch up with a lot of other reviews in queue, have a huge backlog.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

twister6 said:


> You wonna collect them all after reading my UA5 review?  j/k...  I need to catch up with a lot of other reviews in queue, have a huge backlog.


Out of site, out of mind.   I haven't yet heard of UA5.  It might be better that way.  Last time you said I would like something, it cost me $3500.


----------



## RPJ12 (Mar 22, 2022)

mvvRAZ said:


> Just saw the S2 has its own dedicated thread - been absolutely blown away by the sound quality ever since I got it a few days ago, here are my impressions:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/razs-totl-review-and-rambles-thread.916021/page-222#post-16842746


Just got my set of 64 audio A12t and I got a dragonfly cobalt as well. They sound awesome! Is the S2 better than the cobalt? Is the RU6 better than both? The W2? Is there one that rules them all? I’d like to get one DAC dongle to go with my one set of CIEMs. This audio file stuff is nerve wracking and costly!! 🤣


----------



## mvvRAZ

RPJ12 said:


> Just got my set of 64 audio A12t and I got a dragonfly cobalt as well. They sound awesome! Is the S2 better than the cobalt? Is the RU6 better than both? The W2? Is there one that rules them all? I’d like to get one DAC dongle to go with my one set of CIEMs. This audio file stuff is nerve wracking and costly!! 🤣


I hated the W2, haven’t tried the RU6 but imo S2 >>> cobalt, yeah


----------



## RPJ12 (Mar 23, 2022)

I ordered a S2 and Hidizs S9 pro to compare and got this lightning adapter. Thoughts?

USB C DAC OTG Cable 0.5ft/15cm for iPhone/iPad/iPod Oxygen-free Copper Core, iOS15 to Type C Male Adaptor for Amplifier

Is there a better one anyone would recommend for a short usb c to lightning connector?


----------



## mvvRAZ

RPJ12 said:


> I ordered a S2 and Hidizs S9 pro to tear out and for this lightning adapter. Thoughts?
> 
> USB C DAC OTG Cable 0.5ft/15cm for iPhone/iPad/iPod Oxygen-free Copper Core, iOS15 to Type C Male Adaptor for Amplifier, Fiio BTR 5 Q3S BTR3K, qudelix 5k, xd-05 Plus, HIDIZS S9 PRO, Shanling UA2 13Pro https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09KLXYQDH/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_D8GP57JCB8AYK9NZPD0S?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> Is there a bette one anyone would recommend for a short usb c to lightning connector?


the link is not showing up for me, I have the DD hifi one, it’s angled and works very well for me - much fewer disconnects than the stock one, but IIRC they were a bit expensive, close to 20 euros each maybe


----------



## RPJ12

mvvRAZ said:


> I hated the W2, haven’t tried the RU6 but imo S2 >>> cobalt, yeah


Thanks!!! I noticed the link to your impressions of the S2  were for another device. I’d love to read your thoughts.


----------



## musicday

mvvRAZ said:


> I hated the W2, haven’t tried the RU6 but imo S2 >>> cobalt, yeah


You hated the W2, why? Haven't heard the S2, but the first is be best dongle out there at the moment.
I enjoy mine daily.


----------



## ddmareo

musicday said:


> You hated the W2, why? Haven't heard the S2, but the first is be best dongle out there at the moment.
> I enjoy mine daily.


Yea I've seen tons of reviews that say W2 is a great device, but I personally haven't tried it yet.


----------



## RPJ12

mvvRAZ said:


> the link is not showing up for me, I have the DD hifi one, it’s angled and works very well for me - much fewer disconnects than the stock one, but IIRC they were a bit expensive, close to 20 euros each maybe


Thanks. This link works I think:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09KLXYQDH/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_5YFQA049E89YSWF3VF6R?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## mvvRAZ

RPJ12 said:


> Thanks. This link works I think:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09KLXYQDH/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_5YFQA049E89YSWF3VF6R?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/razs-totl-review-and-rambles-thread.916021/page-223#post-16862950 there goes sorry

On the W2 - the bass is pleasantly exaggerated but the tuning of the midrange is absolutely awful Imo - super forward, but not even a clarity type of forwardness, but thick and muddy. It also tends to slap a sort of EQ on everything you plug into it, whereas the S1/S2 preserve the original signature of the IEM much more. 

Obviously just another opinion, and I am especially sensitive to upper mids so take it with a grain of salt


----------



## jwbrent

mvvRAZ said:


> I hated the W2, haven’t tried the RU6 but imo S2 >>> cobalt, yeah



I absolutely love my S2 as well and feel it sounds better than the S1 I had before. I also like the improvement in build and that the cables have been improved to eliminate the noise issues that plagued the S1. Lotoo has a tonality that is super involving!


----------



## NJoyzAudio (Mar 23, 2022)

RPJ12 said:


> I ordered a S2 and Hidizs S9 pro to tear out and for this lightning adapter. Thoughts?
> 
> USB C DAC OTG Cable 0.5ft/15cm for iPhone/iPad/iPod Oxygen-free Copper Core, iOS15 to Type C Male Adaptor for Amplifier
> 
> Is there a bette one anyone would recommend for a short usb c to lightning connector?


RPJ12

Many people through Head-Fi have commented the Menova cables have been hit or miss.
(your Link shows you were asking about a Menova Cable)
Most of the time it works. For others (and I'm one of them) the Menova cable it will not work, where cables from other companies do.
I've stopped using their Lightning cables because of this, as it would work on one model of a device from a company, but then on another model from the same company it would not. 
But there are lots of people on Head-Fi that swear by their cables, so YMMV.

Like mvvRaz, I've used the DD-HiFi adapter that then allows you to use ANY USB-C to USB-C/USB A cable and they have always worked.
For both the S1 and S2 I own, for my LP6K and for another company's product that I own that is USB-C based, the DD-HiFi cable and the adapter always work.

Best thing to do is try it and know it might not work on some combo of products.


----------



## jwbrent

NJoyzAudio said:


> RPJ12
> 
> Many people through Head-Fi have commented the Menova cables have been hit or miss.
> (your Link shows you were asking about a Menova Cable)
> ...



I like DD hifi accessories, well made and they do the job they’re designed to do in a splendid fashion with some aesthetic flair.


----------



## H T T

mvvRAZ said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/razs-totl-review-and-rambles-thread.916021/page-223#post-16862950 there goes sorry
> 
> On the W2 - the bass is pleasantly exaggerated but the tuning of the midrange is absolutely awful Imo - super forward, but not even a clarity type of forwardness, but thick and muddy. It also tends to slap a sort of EQ on everything you plug into it, whereas the S1/S2 preserve the original signature of the IEM much more.
> 
> Obviously just another opinion, and I am especially sensitive to upper mids so take it with a grain of salt



I appreciate divergent opinions and experiences. I have the S1. It has fallen out of favor to my W1 and RU6. Strangely, I was finding the S1 having the more forward upper mids! I need to do some comparisons again. 

Wait, this is the S2 thread. My comparisons should go in the S1 thread.


----------



## Ten Pence Piece

I've had the Lotoo PAW S2 for a few months and absolutely love it. The only other dongle dac I've used is the iBasso DC05 which was good but caused too much hiss when paired with CA Andro 2020s. I do think the S2 sounds a fair bit better but it's also 3-4x the price. Also, absolutely silent with the andros.

I've not experienced any EMF noise interference as some had with the S1 so seems Lotoo fixed that issue nicely. I use it with my android phone just chucked into any pocket or bag. 

The USB-C cable seems fine for me, as I say I use it just in a pocket when commuting about and so far no QA problems. That said I'd like a L-plug cable for a more comfortable fit in pockets so have ordered a DD hifi one. 

There's definitely a bug/problem with Tidal (both desktop and android mobile) when using exclusive mode the play/pause button does not work. I've reported this to both Tidal and Lotoo but have no idea if it'll be fixed. Bit of a shame.


----------



## Doug2507

Does S2 have spdif out or am I just dreaming thinking it was added to s1?


----------



## JML

No spdif output, but it does have line out after the newest firmware update.


----------



## Takeanidea

A synopsis in 100 words - it's worthy of the Lotoo brand. Not sold on ultra portable previously, didn't like Dragonfly Cobalt. This is much better; in SQ, in features, in useability, in price. Low/high gain, balanced/unbalanced, eq presets galore. I've compared it to the Cobalt, Chord Mojo & the headphone jack on my Samsung A52 phone. I've included sound samples for you to listen to at your heart's content. Without earphones/headphones the samples will sound strange, because they're binaural, taken from inside the cups of a Deva Pro headphone which I'm wearing.
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/lotoo-paw-s2.25772/


----------



## djn04

Just got an S2 and sounds great on my CA Andromeda Golds. I noticed after updating from 2.0.0.4 to 2.0.0.5 that it shows the correct sample rate but 32 bit depth when plugged into an iPhone. It doesn't do this when plugged into a Mac. Is this the way it should work on iOS devices?


----------



## utdeep

Love the Lotoo S2 but I am selling mine on classifieds to make room for a new passion:
https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds...-premium-case-lightning-to-usb-c-cable.24579/

Posting it in this thread in case someone is interested in buying the best dac dongle of the last year.


----------



## musicday

The best is still W2 in my opinion.


----------



## utdeep

I liked the W2 - but the power draw, issues with iOS, and the difficulty updating firmware on OSX was tough.  Line out mode on the S1/S2 is really nice if you have a stellar external amp.


----------



## ducnsh

utdeep said:


> I liked the W2 - but the power draw, issues with iOS, and the difficulty updating firmware on OSX was tough.  Line out mode on the S1/S2 is really nice if you have a stellar external amp.


What setting do you use on W2 when connect to iPhone? Does it draw more than RU6?


----------



## utdeep

regular - volumes over 50 I think cause some distortion.  Battery loss with W2is at least 3 times as much as the S1/S2


----------



## Josh83

I’m interested in this dongle, but the PDF of the manual doesn’t clarify whether the user can select between multiple filters (linear phase, minimum phase, etc.). Can anyone clarify this?


----------



## jwbrent

Josh83 said:


> I’m interested in this dongle, but the PDF of the manual doesn’t clarify whether the user can select between multiple filters (linear phase, minimum phase, etc.). Can anyone clarify this?



I’ve owned both Lotoo dongles, and yes, there are ATE settings for phase as well as new ATE settings compared to the og. ✌️


----------



## Josh83

jwbrent said:


> I’ve owned both Lotoo dongles, and yes, there are ATE settings for phase as well as new ATE settings compared to the og. ✌️



Are they adjusted using the buttons on the S2, or does one need an external app like some dongles?


----------



## jwbrent

utdeep said:


> regular - volumes over 50 I think cause some distortion.  Battery loss with W2is at least 3 times as much as the S1/S2



I imagine that’s due to the twin Cirrus dacs compared to a single AKM dac on the PAW S2. The W2 has more output as well, so that is likely the other reason.

I really like the S2 a lot, it drives everything I have nicely, is beautifully made, especially the S2 over the S1. I really don’t use it much at this time (bought it for my iPad 5 mini to stream), but I’m glad it’s in my collection.


----------



## jwbrent

Josh83 said:


> Are they adjusted using the buttons on the S2, or does one need an external app like some dongles?



yes, as with the S1, there are three buttons on the side two of which are used for the pmeq and ate filters.


----------



## PhenixS1970

S2 bundle listed in classifieds .


----------



## Wes S (May 13, 2022)

Hey folks!  I am happy to be joining the club with an S2 arriving today, and I can't wait to compare it to my beloved RU6.  I know when @mvvRAZ likes a product, I will absolutely love it.   Definitely some fun times ahead. . .and I have a feeling the S2 is going to make my Penon Serial really sing and can't wait to find out.


----------



## H T T

Wes S said:


> Hey folks!  I am happy to be joining the club with an S2 arriving today, and I can't wait to compare it to my beloved RU6.  I know when @mvvRAZ recommends or likes a product, I will absolutely love it (if I can afford it  ).   Definitely some fun times ahead. . .and I have a feeling the S2 is going to make my Penon Serial really sing and can't wait to find out.



The Serial sounds great with the S1, W1, and RU6 in balanced mode. Of the three, I slightly prefer the RU6. For SE, the RU6 does much better with the Serial.

Please share your findings!


----------



## jwbrent (May 13, 2022)

wrong thread


----------



## Wes S (May 13, 2022)

H T T said:


> The Serial sounds great with the S1, W1, and RU6 in balanced mode. Of the three, I slightly prefer the RU6. For SE, the RU6 does much better with the Serial.
> 
> Please share your findings!


For sure!  S2 is in the house and is currently being burned in.  I had a quick listen and my Serial's are sounding fantastic, and the vocals are stellar!  Natural, is the first word that comes to mind, and this is some quality sound no doubt.  I am absolutely loving it so far, and my hope is not to replace the RU6, but to keep both and have slightly different presentations to keep things fresh.  With what I am hearing so far, the S2 is a keeper.  

I will report back after I get some more hours on it, and how it compares to the RU6 with the Serial.


----------



## Wes S

I have had the S2 burning in all day yesterday, and just took a listen with my Serial's hooked up, and man o man this little dongle is insanely good!  I am actually quite stunned by how amazing the sound is from top to bottom, and the staging is fantastic as well.  The S2 is freaking legit!  This is my first Lotoo product, and with what I am hearing from the S2, I know for certain this will not be last.


----------



## jwbrent

Wes S said:


> I have had the S2 burning in all day yesterday, and just took a listen with my Serial's hooked up, and man o man this little dongle is insanely good!  I am actually quite stunned by how amazing the sound is from top to bottom, and the staging is fantastic as well.  The S2 is freaking legit!  This is my first Lotoo product, and with what I am hearing from the S2, I know for certain this will not be last.



The S1 was my first Lotoo product which led me to buy its Titanium dap next, then the S2 when it was released. The tone is so _beautiful_ to my ears. 😁


----------



## Wes S

jwbrent said:


> The S1 was my first Lotoo product which led me to buy its Titanium dap next, then the S2 when it was released. The tone is so _beautiful_ to my ears. 😁


Yes sir!  I will own one of their high end DAPs one of these days no doubt.


----------



## Klangwerkk

I got the S2 today and I‘m really impressed soundwise. The only problem is that the display shows correct sample rate but bitrate is always 32bit no matter if I play 16bit files or 24bit files. (PCM via lightning port from iPhone with Apple Music App). Why does the bitrate not update depending on the file?


----------



## wynton74

good evening everyone, I found this interesting discussion on paw s2 and I joined this beautiful forum. I have a problem between my smartphone and the paw and I think it is the fault of the smartphone, when I hook the paw it often does not recognize it and I have to disconnect and reconnect often. my smartphone is an oppo to 94 and I was wondering if I can do something to solve this problem.
thanks and sorry for my english


----------



## H T T

wynton74 said:


> good evening everyone, I found this interesting discussion on paw s2 and I joined this beautiful forum. I have a problem between my smartphone and the paw and I think it is the fault of the smartphone, when I hook the paw it often does not recognize it and I have to disconnect and reconnect often. my smartphone is an oppo to 94 and I was wondering if I can do something to solve this problem.
> thanks and sorry for my english



Your problem sounds like what I experienced- connected but no sound. I bought a new OTG cable. Problem solved


----------



## Wes S

Klangwerkk said:


> I got the S2 today and I‘m really impressed soundwise. The only problem is that the display shows correct sample rate but bitrate is always 32bit no matter if I play 16bit files or 24bit files. (PCM via lightning port from iPhone with Apple Music App). Why does the bitrate not update depending on the file?


I just recently bought a S2 as well, and just noticed I am getting the same thing as you.  32bit is always displaying.  Can anyone shed some light on this for us?


----------



## wynton74

H T T said:


> Your problem sounds like what I experienced- connected but no sound. I bought a new OTG cable. Problem solved


hello yes i tried to use another cable but it doesn't work. do you have a cable to recommend?
the strange thing is that if I use usb audio players the dac is recognized while if I use qobuz it is not.


----------



## H T T

wynton74 said:


> hello yes i tried to use another cable but it doesn't work. do you have a cable to recommend?
> the strange thing is that if I use usb audio players the dac is recognized while if I use qobuz it is not.


The Meenova 
USB C DAC OTG Cable 0.5ft/15cm for iPhone/iPad/iPod​From Amazon


----------



## jwbrent

Wes S said:


> I just recently bought a S2 as well, and just noticed I am getting the same thing as you.  32bit is always displaying.  Can anyone shed some light on this for us?



Both the S1 and S2 upscale the bitrate. I don’t believe it affects the sound in anyway since everything above 24 bit is padded with zeros.


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## wynton74

H T T said:


> The Meenova
> USB C DAC OTG Cable 0.5ft/15cm for iPhone/iPad/iPod​From Amazon


thanks


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## wynton74

Klangwerkk said:


> I got the S2 today and I‘m really impressed soundwise. The only problem is that the display shows correct sample rate but bitrate is always 32bit no matter if I play 16bit files or 24bit files. (PCM via lightning port from iPhone with Apple Music App). Why does the bitrate not update depending on the file?


I instead tried using the same track from qobuz 96 khz and using the Fiio M6 it gives me on the display 48k 16 bit - with smartphone 48k 32 bit - with smartphone passing from usb audio players pro 96k 32 bit. why this diference?


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## Wes S (May 20, 2022)

jwbrent said:


> Both the S1 and S2 upscale the bitrate. I don’t believe it affects the sound in anyway since everything above 24 bit is padded with zeros.


Thanks for the info, and it's nice to know why 32 bit is always displayed.   I kind of figured nothing could be wrong, if it sounds this good.  I absolutely love the S2 paired up with my Penon Serial and the synergy is crazy good!  The staging is quite holographic and deep, with really good imaging and seperation.  There is some magic going on under the hood of this little thing no doubt.


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## phucvm8x

I have an AQ JitterBug, does Paw s2 connect with jitter bug well?


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## MusicSat (Jun 18, 2022)

Hey Friends,

Has anyone who is familiar with the Lotoo Paw S2 had the opportunity to experience the iFi Go Bar and can share impressions of how they compare in SOUND QUALITY [EDIT: and also BATTERY POWER CONSUMPTION at similar SPL]?

(I assume that S2 is the best out there when it comes to features, given its unparalleled complete playback controls, and that it and all others are inferior to the Go Bar when it comes to power output)

Thank you!


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## iFi audio

MusicSat said:


> Lotoo Paw S2 had the opportunity to experience the iFi Go Bar and can share impressions of how they compare in SOUND QUALITY?



Yep, that would be a nice comparison to see


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## musicday

Looks like S2 and W2 won't be getting any other updates.
Wondering if there will be a S3 soon.


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## jwbrent

musicday said:


> Looks like S2 and W2 won't be getting any other updates.
> Wondering if there will be a S3 soon.



My thought is the S2 was a necessary release because the S1 had rfi noise susceptibility. Don’t know what else Lotoo could do with this product category for now, the S2 kills it.


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## Andy HG

jwbrent said:


> My thought is the S2 was a necessary release because the S1 had rfi noise susceptibility. Don’t know what else Lotoo could do with this product category for now, the S2 kills it.


It sounds strange, but I think that maybe the next step will be a model with two types of S1+S2 sound delivery.


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## jwbrent

Andy HG said:


> It sounds strange, but I think that maybe the next step will be a model with two types of S1+S2 sound delivery.



It has the Lotoo house sound which is warmer than most others. When I bought my S1, my first Lotoo product, I fell in love with its tonal character which led me to buying a paw gold touch titanium. I’m in dap heaven. 😌

If you like a more detailed character in the mids/trebles, definitely check out the ATE filters on the S2, or even the pmeq filters (I prefer the former) since it will likely give you what you want. ✌️


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## MusicSat

iFi audio said:


> Yep, that would be a nice comparison to see


Thanks for echoing my question!

The iFi Go Bar seems amazing - if it is has even a slightly superior sound quality or even if it is just on par with the Lotoo Paw S2, with the Bar's unbelievable power output, I would definitely go for it, though in my case, it would be in addition, unfortunately not a replacement because of the complete playback control functionality (Play, Pause, Next, Previous) on the Paw S2 (vs. the Volume only on the Go Bar) - any chance for a next gen. Go Bar with added payback controls? Or maybe even better and sooner, if technically possible - an upgraded firmware for the Go Bar (1) that is already available?

Thank you!


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## MusicSat

MusicSat said:


> Hey Friends,
> 
> Has anyone who is familiar with the Lotoo Paw S2 had the opportunity to experience the iFi Go Bar and can share impressions of how they compare in SOUND QUALITY?
> 
> ...


I would also add BATTERY POWER CONSUMPTION to the comparison (obviously at a comparable SPL output - not with the Go Bar at its maximum output), perhaps with the Lotoo Paw S2 at its maximum volume vs. the iFi Go Bar set to generate a similar volume.

Thanks to whoever might, hopefully, be able to take on it!


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## Mrooop70

Found a way to downgrade back to original firmware.  PM if you need the software to do it.


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## northsider

Good morning.Just got W2 Monday.Rapid service as usual from Musicteck.Excellent little dongle, compact , very good audio.A small query got Lotoo V2 lightning to usb cable but…Find if I even tip against cable music stops assuming there has to be some give in it? Any helpful hints..Found same with V1 also.Many thanks


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## northsider

Using V2 lightning cable to usb with I Pod Touch 7g & I Ph 12.


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## icestrok

Reposted from Ifi go bar thread. I hope it’s not breaking any rules , if it is, please do remove the duplicate one.

Hi, long time lurker here. Im hoping to get into your world at some level. I thought about buying a dap but decided against it. Always have to carry two phones with me (for work), so I can’t imagine a dap as well. 

So I was looking at portable dac’s. I narrowed it down to lotoo paw s2 and Ifi go bar (not the gold one). The s2 is marginally cheaper here (India). 

Now my fear with both is, looking at the comments here, they have issues with iPhones. I have 13 pro max as a daily driver and 12 mini for work/backup. This kinda has me freaking out. We also have dragonfly cobalt/red here, ru6, the other ifi products, fiio q3, moonriver etc.  I’m a bit lost in this world, I heard some flac from a friend , and I was just blown away. 

I’m also looking for IEM’s, and I’m sorry, I do struggle a bit to identify what IEM can be driven by what dac on my iPhone 13 pro max. 
So far I’ve shortlisted 3, fiio fa9, mext mk2, ca andromeda. 
If someone could help me make a choice, that would help a lot.


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## JML (Jul 14, 2022)

The Lotoo has no problems with iPhones as long as you get the right cable. And they match up very well with my FiiO FD5 (FiiO LC-RC cable, Sedna Xelastec or Crystal tips).


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## lil BANE

JML said:


> The Lotoo has no problems with iPhones as long as you get the right cable. And they match up very well with my FiiO FD5 (FiiO LC-RC cable, Sedna Xelastec or Crystal tips).


Curious which OTG cable you’re using with the S2.  I’m using the Lotoo cable currently with my iPhone…it works great, but love to upgrade!


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## JML

See my earlier posts. I got two others, but the cable end needs to fit in my iPhone case socket. All work fine; the Lotoo has the smallest plug, but the cable is pretty thin.


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## waitforit

After upgrading to IOS16 my dongle no longer works. Anybody else have the same thing happen?


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## JML (Sep 14, 2022)

AARGH!  Same problem here with iOS 16. I found the fix, though, searching the web via Google. The answer is that the upgrade (this has happened before with other iOS upgrades) turned "off" a previous setting that you and I had "on" (idiots at Apple). In Settings, go to "Face ID & Passcode." After entering your passcode, scroll down to the bottom of the settings listed there. The second to last entry is "USB Accessories." You and I had it turned ON before, but the iOS 16 upgrade turned it off, so slide the button to turn it back on. The displayed information says "Turn off to prevent USB accessories from connecting when your iPhone has been locked for more than an hour."


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## waitforit

JML said:


> AARGH!  Same problem here with iOS 16. I found the fix, though, searching the web via Google. The answer is that the upgrade (this has happened before with other iOS upgrades) turned "off" a previous setting that you and I had "on" (idiots at Apple). In Settings, go to "Face ID & Passcode." After entering your passcode, scroll down to the bottom of the settings listed there. The second to last entry is "USB Accessories." You and I had it turned ON before, but the iOS 16 upgrade turned it off, so slide the button to turn it back on. The displayed information says "Turn off to prevent USB accessories from connecting when your iPhone has been locked for more than an hour."


That worked.  Thanks


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## NJoyzAudio

JML said:


> AARGH!  Same problem here with iOS 16. I found the fix, though, searching the web via Google. The answer is that the upgrade (this has happened before with other iOS upgrades) turned "off" a previous setting that you and I had "on" (idiots at Apple). In Settings, go to "Face ID & Passcode." After entering your passcode, scroll down to the bottom of the settings listed there. The second to last entry is "USB Accessories." You and I had it turned ON before, but the iOS 16 upgrade turned it off, so slide the button to turn it back on. The displayed information says "Turn off to prevent USB accessories from connecting when your iPhone has been locked for more than an hour."


JML

THANK YOU FOR POSTING THE FIX!


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## sg2k

Hi, is this Dongle capable for Bitperfect Playback on Windows?
Thanks


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## bencherian

Hi just wanted to ask a question. Can it drive Hifiman Edition XS easily?


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## SifatBD

I have ordered a Lotoo Paw S2 Lighting Version. Today i have received that. But I cannot understatnd whether it is the lighting version or the type C version. Because there aren't any differentiate mark on the box. Should I open it or send back to China? .. I am totally confused


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## twister6

SifatBD said:


> I have ordered a Lotoo Paw S2 Lighting Version. Today i have received that. But I cannot understatnd whether it is the lighting version or the type C version. Because there aren't any differentiate mark on the box. Should I open it or send back to China? .. I am totally confused



There is only one S2, comes standard with two usb-c cables, short and long one. Whoever sold it to you probably bundled it with usb-c to lightning otg cable. Double check that it is included.


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## Sulbh

twister6 said:


> There is only one S2, comes standard with two usb-c cables, short and long one. Whoever sold it to you probably bundled it with usb-c to lightning otg cable. Double check that it is included.


Hi do you know if there is a significant difference between S1 and S2 in terms of power output? Numbers don't really show much difference specifically in balanced.


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## twister6

Sulbh said:


> Hi do you know if there is a significant difference between S1 and S2 in terms of power output? Numbers don't really show much difference specifically in balanced.



No significant difference, just recall there was a boost in 3.5mm between S2 and S1.  The noticeable difference was in sound quality.  I covered it here.


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## Sulbh

twister6 said:


> No significant difference, just recall there was a boost in 3.5mm between S2 and S1.  The noticeable difference was in sound quality.  I covered it here.


So S2 or Questyle M15 just for sound quality?


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## dennis611 (Oct 7, 2022)

I purchased the UAPP in app MQA. While Mqa decoding works well with my LG V30 and S2 shows mqa 4x, it doesnt work with my Note 10 Lite. I thought it will work on all android phones. Anyone having the same issue?


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## trez0r

Sulbh said:


> So S2 or Questyle M15 just for sound quality?


I've got both... Those devices are great but really different in flavor. It depends Yours taste, IEM pairing rather SQ. In short... smoother presentation with multi-layered low-end -> S2, more air with great dynamics with raw "power" and so'called Sabre sparke  -> M15.


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## maceto

The S2 is great; it provides some nice color and settings my Mojo2 doesn't, especially in Tidal. For Apple music, I am still experimenting with the settings.


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## sg2k (Dec 14, 2022)

Can somebody say something about the Output Impedance (SE/Balanced)? How low is it? I can't find anything about it in the WWW.


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## aohk1997

Just got mine a week ago and facing some issues, my local distributor is contacting lotoo for an answer too as they don’t have a way to help me but thought I’ll try my luck here 

There is some popping and crackling noise when I use the lotoo paw s2 (latest firmware) with my iPhone 13 Pro iOS 16.1.1. The issue is specifically for this device pairing as I have tried other devices with no issues as well as switched the cables 

Anyone has any idea what’s going on? 😅


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## lmfboy01

SifatBD said:


> I have ordered a Lotoo Paw S2 Lighting Version. Today i have received that. But I cannot understatnd whether it is the lighting version or the type C version. Because there aren't any differentiate mark on the box. Should I open it or send back to China? .. I am totally confused


It should come in a different box, at least my lightning cable mine did.


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## maceto

lmfboy01 said:


> It should come in a different box, at least my lightning cable mine did.


It’s not part of the standard package


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## maceto (Dec 17, 2022)

never mind…


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## musicday

Maybe is time we get an S3 dual chip more advanced. That will be great.


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## maceto

musicday said:


> Maybe is time we get an S3 dual chip more advanced. That will be great.


Quad 😀


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