# y1 gamma-1 DAC



## itsborken

Anybody notice that MisterX and AMB are working on a portable DAC with USB, optical and coax support over on Headwize? The portable optical DAC is something a lot of people have been asking for, especially in a form factor equal to a mini3.

y1: Full-featured modular miniature DAC


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## Citizen86

Cool, that was only posted 6 days ago. Definitely sounds like it would be much higher quality than the AlienDAC. Wonder how much it would cost for the BOM?


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## n_maher

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Citizen86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cool, that was only posted 6 days ago. Definitely sounds like it would be much higher quality than the AlienDAC. Wonder how much it would cost for the BOM?_

 

There's not even a schematic yet so it's a bit premature to compare it to anything or to be guessing at home much it'll cost to build.

 It does sound like an interesting little project although I suspect a lot of SMD work which I'm not all that fond of. I see a new work source in my future...


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## cobaltmute

Read the top of the thread. AMB is talking through hole except for the chips.


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## cerbie

It looks like it will fill in the space between PCM2702 DACs and Twisted Pear's stuff. $50 or $500+...where's the middle? This could be it.


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## Citizen86

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *n_maher* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There's not even a schematic yet so it's a bit premature to compare it to anything or to be guessing at home much it'll cost to build._

 

Fair enough, but the DAC chip being used is higher quality than the PCM2702 used in the Alien, right? As long as it's well implemented, which is probably a pretty safe assumption, it should be a good step ahead, but of course it will probably be a step ahead cost-wise also.

 I'm keeping my eyes open for both the new BantamDAC and this one.


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## n_maher

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cobaltmute* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Read the top of the thread. AMB is talking through hole except for the chips._

 

Ah, I missed that on first read. Lovely!


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## cobaltmute

amb's post came the morning after I cursed all the 0805 SMD stuff on the AlienDAC. The 1206 inductors - easy, the 0805 capacitors had me cursing.


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## TheRobbStory

Wow, this is exciting! Sounds like a perfect companion for the Mini3 + EEE PC I've been using at work to stream audio from my home server.


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## fordgtlover

Looks like I'll be watching [yet another AMB project] with great interest. My poor wallet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


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## Cankin

is it possible to add the metronome ASRC module from twisted pear to build a nice upsampling home DAC?


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## itsborken

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cankin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_is it possible to add the metronome ASRC module from twisted pear to build a nice upsampling home DAC?_

 

Later in the thread AMB says he wants to design a high end DAC with that capability too (not necessarily from twisted pear):

link

 Fun times ahead...


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## Cankin

The higher end one surely looks nice, but probably over my budget


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## error401

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cankin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_is it possible to add the metronome ASRC module from twisted pear to build a nice upsampling home DAC?_

 

I suspect this would be a possible, but unsupported feature. However, it will only work in a USB-only configuration.


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## TheRobbStory

*poke poke* any updates?


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## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheRobbStory* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*poke poke* any updates?_

 

Falling off a ladder and hurting my back had delayed progress, but I am working on it again. Watch the γ1 headwize thread for news.


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## TheRobbStory

Yikes! I wasn't aware. Have a speedy recovery, then worry about our insatiable thirst for a high end DIY DAC!


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## n_maher

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheRobbStory* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yikes! I wasn't aware. Have a speedy recovery, then worry about our insatiable thirst for a high end DIY DAC!_

 

See what you get for poking a guy while he's on a ladder? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Rest up and heal, Ti, the project can wait.


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## JamesL

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *n_maher* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_See what you get for poking a guy while he's on a ladder? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I lol'd =] 

 Anyways, best of wishes to your health, and very much looking forward to the development of this dac.


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## rhester

Heal up Ti. Rest and relax, you deserve it for your DIY work alone.


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## amb

The schematics, circuit description and more info have been posted to Post #1 of the γ1 thread at headwize. I invite you all to have a look!

 PCB layouts will come soon.


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## JamesL

suh-weeet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I didn't realize this was gonna be a dual-board design.


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## TheRobbStory

I believe the appropriate term is 'modular'


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## amb

The schematic has been updated to v0.52 in the first post of the headwize thread, and here is the matching PCB layout (also posted at headwize):


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## JamesL

This things really getting a move on! Crazy.. Can't wait! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 And amb keeps working it out at.. what is it now in cali, 3 in the morning?
 Oh, and props to misterX as well


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## amb

It's just past 5am here now, and I haven't slept yet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 MisterX seems to keep the same sort of hours that I do, and he is in Michigan!


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## JamesL

Lol. I've been pretty much in the same cycle (chicago).. getting 2-3 hours of sleep in the evenings and some 1-3 more during my morning classes. 
 Its something I really ought to fix.


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## jamess71

Wow this is awesome guys. You're all maniacs.


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## evilmerlin

Just checking but I can connect this to an amp (mini^3 in my case) with a mini to mini IC right?


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## JamesL

yup


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## amb

Here is v0.57 of the PCB layout. Ther has been a number of tweaks and fixes since the v0.52 posted above. See the headwize thread for details. Barring any last minute issues we expect this to be the version that we will use for the prototype run.


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## amb

A preliminary BOM (based on v0.57) has been added to the first post of the γ1 headwize thread. Have a look.


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## adamus

amb, apologies if you have answered this previously. 

 Will you be offering the board with the surface mount chips presoldered? I am slightly confused about the push for through hole if the real hard parts are the chips anyway. 

 By the way - this looks a good project, i should be purchasing at some point.


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## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *adamus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Will you be offering the board with the surface mount chips presoldered?_

 

I had not planned to, but if this turns out to be cost-effective then I might consider it (I won't be soldering the chips myself, would have to have it done professionally).

  Quote:


 I am slightly confused about the push for through hole if the real hard parts are the chips anyway. 
 

This has been addressed in the headwize thread.


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## adamus

just had a read. I see your reasons - particularly for avialability etc. 

 I think you would get a lot of demand if the chips were presoldered. The chips will put a lot of people off. Could well be cost effective. 

 Good luck with it - i get on well with SMD, so i will porbably get one down the line to have a play with. 

 Cheers

 Adam.


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## 1UP

I've yet to try SMD but would like to try it, and principally think also people in my position _shouldn't_ be afraid of it, but can't deny the idea of having presoldered chips would be something I'd be encouraged by and would be happy for it to be reflected in the price of a PCB.


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## Heady

I think most people building this would have the experience to handle the PCM chip and similar sized chip. The first time I handle such sized chip was with the AlienDAC and it turned out ok. I don't think this will be suitable for a first DIY project anyway.

 Just my 2 cents.


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## ruZZ.il

x2, but it'll happen anyway. Jeff's solved that one already.
 I'd personally like the challenge 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Thanks again Ti, and everyone else contributing! I'm looking forward to it


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## m0b1liz3

So how soon will this be available??


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## rhys h

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *adamus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_....
 Will you be offering the board with the surface mount chips presoldered?....._

 

I think this would be a great idea, as for some people its hard enough to source the chips themselfs, also it the chips are allready presoldered i think it will encourage quite a few more people to built the dac itself, as the hardest part is allready over, hovever only if it was to turn out cost effective.


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## JamesL

I'm actually kind of looking forward to getting another shot at the dac chip. The pcm2702 gave me a little trouble, but I won't get better at it unless I keep at it.


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## error401

The nice thing about this design is that all the big & expensive parts on the DAC board are pretty easy to solder. SOIC pitch really isn't difficult at all, and it's easy to visually verify that there aren't any bridges. The four tiny ICs (U1D, TSSOP-8 and the 3 SOT-23-5 chips) are small enough to be easily desoldered. So aside from the USB board, it really shouldn't even be that daunting for SMD newbies, just get a few extras of those tiny parts and you should be okay. You probably don't even need the spares, since modern (low current) power supply parts tend to be fairly tolerant of shorts (built-in current limit). I've shorted the output of an LP2985 for 30-60s and it worked fine when I rectified the issue, for example.

 The PCM2707 is, unfortunately, another story. Not only is it fairly difficult to solder correctly, it's pretty much impossible to remove without ruining the board.


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## fordgtlover

I believe Jeff Rossell now offers the Alien DAC board with the PCM2702 pre-soldered. This might be a value add that Jeff would consider offering for this kit. That is, presuming Jeff will carry this kit.

 It would certainly make his kits even more attractive to many people I'm sure.

 With the hard to solder chips already done, I'd be pretty sure that this great little project will be an absolute winner. 

 Just my 2 cents.

 AMB: I apologies if you have already answered this question previously, but do you intend to offer either a group buy or an on demand custom face plate for this DAC?


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## MisterX

Nevermind.


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## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fordgtlover* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_AMB: I apologies if you have already answered this question previously, but do you intend to offer either a group buy or an on demand custom face plate for this DAC?_

 

I would definitely consider it. However, due to γ1's modular nature and number of possible configurations, there isn't a single set of panel design that would work for all of them. There are five main configurations:

USB+DAC "full" (USB board configured for S/PDIF format and the DAC board fully populated with coax and optical S/PDIF inputs with front panel selector switch).
USB+DAC "lite" (USB board configured for I2S format, and the DAC board will have no coax or optical inputs, nor would there be a selector switch up front).
USB board only, as a USB-to-S/PDIF converter.
USB board only, as a USB-to-I2S converter.
DAC board only, with coax and optical S/PDIF inputs only (no USB).

 In addition, there are sub-configurations. For example, some might want coax S/PDIF input but omit the optical.

 It remains to be seen, but I may only do panels for one of these configurations only.


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## amb

I think the γ1 design is mature enough to enter the prototype phase. If you are interested in joining the prototyping team, PM me.


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## jar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It remains to be seen, but I may only do panels for one of these configurations only._

 

My vote would go to the USB+DAC 'full' configuration. Perhaps you can do a group buy on that, and then fab to order for the other configs. Another possibility for the alternate configs is to release the design files and let people cut and paste.


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## amb

γ1 v0.60 prototype boards have been ordered. In a little over 2 weeks plus shipping time, the prototype team will be busy!


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## MisterX

That will be a very long two weeks for some of us.


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## TzeYang

I cant wait too.

 I wanted to join the prototyping team but my finals is next week.

 That sucks!


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## amb

Here is a 3D rendering of the boards. Some parts are missing and others are not exactly the right type or color, but this is good enough for illustrative purposes.


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## JamesL

It's a lot smaller in person


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## cobaltmute

What are you using to do the renders?


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## JamesL

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cobaltmute* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What are you using to do the renders?_

 

Aren't you on the proto team? It's in your email =P

  Quote:


 I use Imagineering (Imagineering Inc - Printed Circuit Boards).

 -Ti


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## cobaltmute

He's using Imagineering to make the prototypes. I know that.

 I mean that actual drawing 3 posts up. The program I use for PCB gives me an OK 3D view, but I like his renders.


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## rhys h

POV ray to render the images, eagle 3D to create the render files from a eagle pcb.


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## cobaltmute

Well that puts me out of luck, but good to know.


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## JamesL

ack.. sorry, still pretty early in the morning for me..


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## amb

For those who aren't keeping up with the γ1 thread at headwize, the prototype boards had arrived and are on their way to everyone on the prototype team. MisterX had built up a full version, a lite version and a USB-to-S/PDIF converter and they all work beautifully. I will begin building mine and do some testing, and with the team's input I will incorporate some enhancements/fixes to the PCB layout for the production board run.

 Here is a view of the prototype (v0.60) boards:





 Here is MisterX's "full" configuration DAC board:





 And his "lite" configuration DAC board:





 The USB board:





 The USB board populated as a USB-to-S/PDIF converter:





 Ignore the yellow jumper wire in the lite config DAC board. MisterX was testing without the power mux chip. On the production board there will be a real jumper header for this option.


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## FallenAngel

That looks awesome!


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## luvdunhill

amb: where do you get your boards done? Also, what's with the strip on the top and bottom, to ground the extruded case to the board?


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## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *luvdunhill* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_amb: where do you get your boards done?_

 

I use Imagineering. Not the cheapest fab, but I am happy with their quality and service. I understand that Justin at Headamp also uses Imagineering, and we know he is also a fanatic when it comes to quality.

  Quote:


 Also, what's with the strip on the top and bottom, to ground the extruded case to the board? 
 

Yes. This is similar to what I did on the Mini³ board, except this time I have them on the top _and_ bottom sides of the board, with a row of vias tying them together.


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## cotdt

Now I just need to tap the digital output from my portable mp3 player, and my portable stack will be awesome!


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## n_maher

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I use Imagineering. Not the cheapest fab, but I am happy with their quality and service. I understand that Justin at Headamp also uses Imagineering, and we know he is also a fanatic when it comes to quality._

 

Just to briefly add to this point, I have used other board fab houses and Imagineering is the best that I've come across.


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## cobaltmute

The only other boards that I've gotten in the last while were my Pimeta and some I ordered through BatchPCB (who uses Gold Phoenix).

 The gamma1 prototype board is very nice. The soldermask on my BatchPCB ones were uneven. From recollection since it has been a couple of months, the Pimeta was nice as well. I'd not hazard a guess about the Pimeta versus the gamma1 as one was HASL and the other ROHS silver plated so the shiny-ness makes a difference in perception.


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## cobaltmute

I just checked Imagineering's advertised specials. Only minorly more expensive than Gold Phoenix.

 I think I know where my order is going to go for the board I'm developing.


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## amb




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## fishski13

looks great Ti !!!


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## penger

So clean! Very nice looking.


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## JamesL

awesome job Ti !


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## fordgtlover

Looking good.


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## J.D.N

Will complete kits be available at some point?


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## rds

Quote:


 So clean! 
 

So fresh and so clean!


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## Ferrari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_



_

 



 Very well thought-out design, both in- and outside. Simply the champ under DIY portable DAC’s.


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## tosehee

A couple of dumb questions if you guys don't mind..

 1. Does USB work on any OS? including Linux?
 2. Does USB output bit perfect?
 3. How is the jitter performance in USB->S/PDIF converter variant?


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## cobaltmute

I believe the PCM2707 core works on any OS (including Linux).

 USB is as bit perfect as the OS is. The kernel mixer in XP supposedly up-samples 44.1 to 48kHz. You can bypass this by using the ASIO drivers and foobar2000.

 No idea on the jitter.

 The USB lite version sounds very nice (after a 3 hour listening session last nite)


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## tosehee

Thanks for the response.

 Is Linux one of the bit perfect OS? I tried the Meier Move before on both OS/X (Leopard) and Linux (Ubuntu back then), and the sounds were much better coming out of OSX.

 I ended up selling it as I was trying to use it on my work (Linux). I am hoping to get some other options out there that would be suitable in linux environment.

 Is it just my perception or does Linux truly doesn't support the bit perfect? Or was I configured it wrong..



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cobaltmute* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I believe the PCM2707 core works on any OS (including Linux).

 USB is as bit perfect as the OS is. The kernel mixer in XP supposedly up-samples 44.1 to 48kHz. You can bypass this by using the ASIO drivers and foobar2000.

 No idea on the jitter.

 The USB lite version sounds very nice (after a 3 hour listening session last nite)_


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## cobaltmute

Others have said Linux is bit perfect. I haven't touched it for desktop use in quite a while as for me it is a server product.


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## olblueyez

I have a stupid question. Is this a HP amp/dac or just a dac?


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## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *olblueyez* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a stupid question. Is this a HP amp/dac or just a dac?_

 

Just a DAC and or a converter from what I read so far.


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## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cobaltmute* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Others have said Linux is bit perfect. I haven't touched it for desktop use in quite a while as for me it is a server product._

 

That's what I thought too, but my hearing tells me otherwise.. I don't know why.. 

 Do you have any link or reference to your findings?


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## royewest

A lot of the questions folks are asking about the Y1 project itself are covered in great detail on the first page of the Headwize site for this project, which includes schematics, renderings, BOMs, a thorough description of the circuit and its options, etc.:

HeadWize: DIY Workshop > γ1: Full-featured modular miniature DAC


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## error401

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's what I thought too, but my hearing tells me otherwise.. I don't know why.. 

 Do you have any link or reference to your findings?_

 

The Linux audio subsystems can all be configured in a bit-perfect fashion, but many distributions will start a mixing server akin to kmixer to allow multiple streams to be mixed in software. This will obviously break that. Make sure nothing like esd, PulseAudio etc. is running and delete any .asoundrc and you should get bit perfect output.


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## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *error401* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Linux audio subsystems can all be configured in a bit-perfect fashion, but many distributions will start a mixing server akin to kmixer to allow multiple streams to be mixed in software. This will obviously break that. Make sure nothing like esd, PulseAudio etc. is running and delete any .asoundrc and you should get bit perfect output._

 

Ahh..

 That could be it..!! Thanks for the info. Now, I have something to look into.

 Thanks again.


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## amb

γ1 production boards have been ordered. ETA about 3 weeks.


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## Alcaudon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_γ1 production boards have been ordered. ETA about 3 weeks._

 

Not sure if it's been covered at the headwize thread (my apologies if so 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), but..... do you plan to start a group buy for this project? are you going to offer some kind of kit?

 Thanks!


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## n_maher

I'm happy to report that the y1 sounds quite good.






 I currently have it at work feeding my Millett Starving Student Amp.


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## amb

Not a group buy. I'll distribute this board set and some related parts just like how I do it for all my other current projects. The first post in the headwize thread has all the details.


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## NelsonVandal

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *n_maher* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm happy to report that the y1 sounds quite good._

 

Yes, but how good? Has anyone compared it to other DACs?


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## MisterX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *NelsonVandal* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, but how good?_

 

Extensive RMAA results have been provided in the developmental thread at the other forum.


HeadWize: View Post [DIY Workshop » γ1: Full-featured modular miniature DAC]

 We invite you to draw your own conclusions.


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## cobaltmute

To me, the USB lite gamma1 sounds much better than my Glass Jar Audio AlienDAC kit. It seems to have more resolution and pace. Very natural sound with great detail. Being through-hole, I also found it easier to build.


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## sandbasser

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *n_maher* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm happy to report that the y1 sounds quite good.







 I currently have it at work feeding my Millett Starving Student Amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

n_maher - thanks for the picture... AND a BIG THANKS for all your helpful and insightful comments on this and other diy forums.

 Question for you: where did you get the silver front/back plates for your Mini³???... (AMB's are only black.)

 (Sorry for the slight thread derailment!)

 Regards,


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## Lil' Knight

That mini3 is from Rockhopper Audio. That's thrice's custom faceplate I think.


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## n_maher

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *NelsonVandal* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, but how good? Has anyone compared it to other DACs?_

 

I haven't done much exhaustive listening compared to anything other than the a little USB only dac that I have at work. I far and away prefer the y1 to it, but even the parts cost of the y1 exceeds the cost of the dac I was using so it's not much of a useful comparison. I will be bringing the y1 to the upcoming NYC meet and will probably allow for it to be taken around and tried in different rigs.


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## n_maher

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sandbasser* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_n_maher - thanks for the picture... AND a BIG THANKS for all your helpful and insightful comments on this and other diy forums._

 

You're quite welcome, although how much insight I provide is probably up for debate. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 Question for you: where did you get the silver front/back plates for your Mini³???... (AMB's are only black.) 
 

LK is correct, I had my penguin buddy thrice build this mini³ for me and the face plates are exclusive to his amps. 

 The combo sounds quite good together and makes for a heck of a powerful yet tiny package. And just to get folks wound up he are two more glory shots for the thread with the custom mini-mini that I built for the stack.


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## MisterX

...


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## Lil' Knight

Look really neat.


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## Listen2this1

Ok, I have been reading through this post and I have decided if the boards come in time I am going to do this over christmas break. Have some questions though. Is it possible to get it to run off of the power source of the mini³ in any way. If it could run off of the battery that would be great. I plan to have them in the same enclosure and I would like to reduce the power inputs.


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## JamesL

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Listen2this1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Have some questions though. Is it possible to get it to run off of the power source of the mini³ in any way. If it could run off of the battery that would be great. I plan to have them in the same enclosure and I would like to reduce the power inputs._

 

The easiest way is just to use the usb power.


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## royewest

I've messed around a bit with battery power for the Y1. 

 I believe Ti wrote that the full Y1 config consumes something like 70-90 mA. I don't think there's a 9V-format rechargable that would work very well for that.

 I have successfully powered the Y1 for a few hours with a combination of a six-AA NiMH pack and a 5V voltage regulator I got from partsconnexion.com (the regulator's own web page is at NewClassD UWB Regulator ). But this is a pretty clumsy setup - as folks have pointed out, USB power is much more convenient.

 Still pursuing the dream of an ever more audiophile-pleasing and convenient portable rig...


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## amb

1. The Hammond 1455C80x case can't accommodate both a Mini³ and a γ1 at the same time.

 2. γ1 requires a 5V regulated DC power source, and you can't derive that from a Mini³ without additional circuitry.

 3. You'd need to deal with the issue of resolving γ1's "real" ground vs. Mini³'s virtual ground if they shared a common power source. Mini³'s TLE2426 rail splitter chip cannot sink all of γ1's current draw.

 4. γ1 draws a fair amount of current (anywhere from ~50mA to ~90mA depending on configuration and operating condition) so you really won't want to use Mini³'s battery power even if you were able to solve all the above problems.


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## Listen2this1

Well I am going to need multiple cables for power. Here is a pic of my goal. 


 The far right will be a Mini3 that will be missing the in and out on the front panel. The in and outs will be routed into a the case in the middle. This case will also on the front have a 1/4 inch plug. On the left there will be a y1 the only thing on the front of it will be the switch. The out of the y1 will be routed to the middle case where it will have RCA outputs. The back of the middle case will also have a 1/8 inch input. That will also be the switch for the mini3. So if the 1/8th has somesting plugged in that signal will be routed to the mini3. When the cable is removed the signal from the y1 will be routed to the mini3. I am wanting to make this a desktop system that has some other uses.


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## amb

That's a cool concept. Since you will have an extra enclosure in the middle, you could build yourself two power supplies in it, one (15-24VDC) for the Mini³ and the other (5V regulated) for the γ1. Make sure that the Mini³ supply is isolated from the case.


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## amb

In anticipation of the upcoming release of the γ1 mini DAC, a precision-milled front/rear panel set group buy interest check is now underway at the Headwize Marketplace. Have a look.


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## Halvor

Is optical out an option on the gamma-1?


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## MisterX

Depends how it's built. 
 The USB board does feature an optional optical S/PDIF output but it will not fit in the default case with a fully populated DAC board.


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## JamesL

You can use the usb board of the gamma1 as a USB-to-S/PDIF converter, and it will support both coax and optical output.

 You can't directly use it with the DAC however, as the phono and optical jack on the usb board will interfere with parts on the DAC board. 

 If you wanted both the DAC and and USB/spdif conversion, well.. I'm not knowledgeable enough to trust myself to try undocumented configurations without supervision, but I think it may work if you off-wired some components or the board, set the USB board up for S/PDIF output, and installed U2D(and it's surrounding circuitry) so it can feed a I2S signal to the wolfson.


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## Halvor

How does it work? Will I be able to send 5.1 sound from my PC to my home cinema receiver with the y1? I will of course use software compatible for this like power dvd, and if necessary build a y1 with just digital out


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## royewest

How it works is described in great detail here:

HeadWize: DIY Workshop > γ1: Full-featured modular miniature DAC


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## amb

γ1 is a 2-channel stereo DAC. It doesn't do 5.1 stuff.


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## cotdt

In the spirit of DDIY (Don't Do It Yourself), will the DAC chip be presoldered?


----------



## amb

No presoldering will be offered initially. Our prototype phase found that the build was relatively straightforward, so I'll let everyone give it a shot first.


----------



## amb

HEADSUP! The γ1 front/rear panel set group buy sign-up phase is closing tonight. If you want to participate, act now.


----------



## amb

Good News!
 The γ1 production boards and parts are now available. See my post at headwize for more details.


----------



## Bismar

Any Australians considering doing a digikey or mouser bulk buy? (Preferably someone known unlike me), cause an initial glance through the BOM shows that some items are ridiculously expensive from the Australian Farnell.

 I believe one capacitor was even $11 a pop compared to less then a dollar from the states!


----------



## xnothingpoetic

There is no chance the boards will go out of stock soon, is there?

 I want this DAC, but I need to find someone to build it for me first.


----------



## linuxworks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *xnothingpoetic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is no chance the boards will go out of stock soon, is there?

 I want this DAC, but I need to find someone to build it for me first._

 

I am probably going to be building at least 2. PM me if you want..


----------



## fordgtlover

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bismar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any Australians considering doing a digikey or mouser bulk buy? (Preferably someone known unlike me), cause an initial glance through the BOM shows that some items are ridiculously expensive from the Australian Farnell.

 I believe one capacitor was even $11 a pop compared to less then a dollar from the states!_

 


 I am going to organise an Aussie Digikey or Mouser GB. Given that the PCM2707 won't be available until February, I'm not rushing.


----------



## digger945

I cannot imagine just how much time and effort that Ti has put into designing this DAC, compiling a BOM listing parts from 3 different sources, and all of the technical and how-to articles, complete with notes for multiple configurations/inputs.
 I must not forget a custom CNC machined end panels group buy, and hard-to-find parts and PCB's direct from AMB audio shop, and all the daily post's to help people working on all sorts of projects big, small, complex and simple.
 Thank you Ti for giving us this opportunity to build our own DIY Hi-end DAC, and for all of your help and contribution to this and other communities.

 I really don't see how you do it all
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## amb

Don't forget to thank MisterX too, who codesigned this and was every step of the way with me. We exchange dozens of emails daily.


----------



## digger945

Ret-row.
 Thanks to you also MisterX (by the time I got to the bottom of the y-1 BOM, my mind was numb LOL, I just finished ordering).
 You probably don't know just how many times I have read your posts about DAC's and just about everything else, not to mention personally helping me with sourcing parts for a project. 

 Just how on earth do you even begin to approach designing an audio DAC anyways?
 Thanks a bunch MisterX! I should have known this was a team effort.


----------



## Icarium

Nice! Congrats amb and MisterX


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fordgtlover* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am going to organise an Aussie Digikey or Mouser GB. Given that the PCM2707 won't be available until February, I'm not rushing._

 

then why are we rushing to do the AMB order next week?? or are we just ordering the bords while they are still available and doing the mouser/digikey order later??

 edit: oops forgot our conversation the other day 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 so we get the boards; face plates etc. and then just slot the USB controller in when it becomes available.


----------



## rogerlike

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *digger945* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You probably don't know just how many times I have read your posts about DAC's and just about everything else, not to mention personally helping me with sourcing parts for a project...._

 

I love reading this kind of enthusiasm and excitement generated by our hobby. It almost sounds like we need a group hug to go along with that group buy!


----------



## FallenAngel

Awesome, congrats on another wonderful design guys!


----------



## fordgtlover

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_then why are we rushing to do the AMB order next week?? or are we just ordering the bords while they are still available and doing the mouser/digikey order later??

 edit: oops forgot our conversation the other day 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 so we get the boards; face plates etc. and then just slot the USB controller in when it becomes available._

 


 Sorry for not updating that comment. Apparently earlier this week stock of the PCM2707 were depleted at all known suppliers. Somehow, someway, they have reappeared in stock at Digikey after the expected date was indicated as Feb '09. I had originally planned to look to a GB in January, but it seems that there is a window of opportunity now to get all the parts together.


----------



## amb

I just posted some important notes about the γ1 at headwize. Please read.


----------



## digger945

Thanks, great info that will be useful very soon. I can see now that this will be a great learning experience for me.


 And to FordGTLover, I just ordered the PCM2707 from Digikey, and all went through without any backorders.
 They showed over 300 in stock and ready to ship when I placed the order this morning.


----------



## amb

Oops, pasted in the wrong URL. Now fixed.


----------



## Mher6

amb--

 Do you have any idea when front and back panels will be available to those that missed the group buy?


----------



## digger945

I am not 100% sure, but I think he may have ordered some just to sell through the AMB store, and you never know when someone who ordered the set in the group buy may back down, not to mention that a set could possibly show up in the Cables etc. FS forum here.


----------



## amb

I did get a few extra panel sets, but I have to hold on to them until the group buy shipments end, because a few participants had indicated variable quantities depending on price. Also, there are a few people who contacted me after the close of the sign-ups, so any leftovers will go to them on a first-come, first served basis. However, I am not adding any more names to that list because there won't be enough panels. The group buy panels are expected to arrive around December 29, and I'll send them to all participants thereafter.

 After that, I will begin to offer the panels on a made-to-order basis just like I do for the Mini³ ones. So, for those who missed the group buy, the panels will still be available.


----------



## Listen2this1

So the ones that have done an order from mouser, what were your totals.

 Also AMB ealier you said that if I would need to build two different power supplies if I wanted to run the Mini3 and the y1 off of the same wallwart. What if I know that I will be using a 15v power supply, could I use a Tread and power it down for the y1? I would let the power supply in the mini3 handle its side.


----------



## Navyblue

I am in need of a DAC that is dead silent for my PC and cable TV box.

 Is there any possibility for it to accept two optical inputs?

 If I were to use USB for the PC connection, would it "dirty" the signal?

 I am sort of of the fence right now, if there are boards with the chips pre soldered I'd jump on it.


----------



## linuxworks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Navyblue* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there any possibility for it to accept two optical inputs?_

 

it has coax in as an alternate so why not just get a monoprice.com opto-coax converter and then you have 2 opto in's. the monoprice units are in the $10 range.


----------



## ruZZ.il

I tried comparing the USB input to the optical input, via a bunch of the stuff you see in my sig. I couldn't really pickup on any difference. They both sound fantastic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'm happy using the USB input.
 Though if you insist, if you look at the schematics, you'd see that technically, it wouldn't be too hard to adapt another optical in. Either in place of the coax, or in addition(RXP3). Just look at how U7D is connected to RXP2 on U2D. RXP(x) is selected with TXSEL. It would be a little trickier mounting it all properly, but if you've come far enough to be able to make that mod electrically, you're likely able to figure out the rest


----------



## digger945

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Listen2this1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So the ones that have done an order from mouser, what were your totals._

 

I have $70 Mouser(including Hammond case) and $14 Digikey(including PCM2707), with only just a few extras for other projects. Prices do not include shipping.


  Quote:


 Also AMB ealier you said that if I would need to build two different power supplies if I wanted to run the Mini3 and the y1 off of the same wallwart. What if I know that I will be using a 15v power supply, could I use a Tread and power it down for the y1? I would let the power supply in the mini3 handle its side. 
 

5V 300mA.


----------



## amb

listen2thisone, the Mini³ power supply and the γ1 must not share "grounds", because the former wlll feed a virtual ground amp whereas the latter is "real ground". This makes it impractical to derive the voltage of one from another. The best solution is to have two completely independent and isolated power supplies.


----------



## Listen2this1

Ok, Thanks


----------



## MisterX

Quote:


 Though if you insist, if you look at the schematics, you'd see that technically, it wouldn't be too hard to adapt another optical in. Either in place of the coax, or in addition(RXP3). 
 

Add a Twisted pear optical module, leave out J2D, C29D, T1D and R1D, solder in a couple of wires and you're done. Except for making it all fit in the default enclosure.


----------



## dude_500

Just want to make sure I'm going to do this right, if I want USB in, Digital/Optical in, and Digital/Optical out, then the only parts I exclude are "note 7" correct?


----------



## MisterX

Quote:


 Note 7. Populate this part only if the USB board will be used as a standalone USB-to-S/PDIF converter (not to be attached to the DAC board). 
 

Doesn't make much sense when taken out of context does it? 
 (by the time you get to that note there is no context left)

 How about

  Quote:


 Note 7. Populate C11U, C9U, J4U, L3U, R8U, R9U, U4U and U5U only if the USB board will be used as a standalone USB-to-S/PDIF converter (not to be attached to the DAC board).


----------



## amb

You can't have coax/optical input *and* coax/optical output at the same time on the γ1. The only configuration that supports coax and optical output is the standalone USB-to-S/PDIF converter using only the USB board, and that board only has USB input.


----------



## dude_500

ok, so if I have usb,spdif,optical in and audio out, (I think that's the lite version?)

 Then I omit the following?

 4. Omit this part if the USB board will be configured for I²S output and used with the DAC board (a.k.a. "lite configuration").
 5. Omit this part if optical S/PDIF output is not needed.
 6. Omit this part if coaxial S/PDIF output is not needed.
 7. Populate this part only if the USB board will be used as a standalone USB-to-S/PDIF converter (not to be attached to the DAC board).


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dude_500* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ok, so if I have usb,spdif,optical in and audio out, (I think that's the lite version?)_

 

Looks more like the "full" version actually.


----------



## dude_500

Ah, ok so it looks like I only exclude these parts?

 5. Omit this part if optical S/PDIF output is not needed.
 6. Omit this part if coaxial S/PDIF output is not needed.
 7. Populate this part only if the USB board will be used as a standalone USB-to-S/PDIF converter (not to be attached to the DAC board).

 Also 8. Can be omitted if USB board is configured for S/PDIF output and used with DAC board.


----------



## ruZZ.il

I did that. Mine works


----------



## dude_500

For capacitors like this (80-C320C104K5R)

 There are many x7r options avaliable. Does it matter which one I get?


----------



## MisterX

Go for the specified part. 
 (won't go wrong that way)

http://www.mouser.com/Search/Product...UCHU6a6Q%3d%3d


----------



## dude_500

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MisterX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Go for the specified part. 
 (won't go wrong that way)

C320C104K5R5TA_

 


 Oh, I see the rest just contain the model but have more after it. Thanks!


----------



## digger945

dude, sometimes the difference in part numbers can be as simple as one is RoHS compliant(lead free) and one is not(old part number, contains some lead maybe).
 Sometimes the part number is different for the same part, but in full reals or ammo packs(you will notice the minimum quantity for ordering will be like 1000,2500,5000,etc.).


----------



## Alcaudon

amb, any estimation on when will you have the PCM2707 available in your parts shop? I want to order everything I can from there


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alcaudon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_amb, any estimation on when will you have the PCM2707 available in your parts shop? I want to order everything I can from there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The current estimate is early February, but it could change -- maybe earlier, maybe later.


----------



## Alcaudon

I can wait, no problem 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for the quick reply, and for all the effort you (and MisterX, of course 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) are putting into this.


----------



## linuxworks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alcaudon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_amb, any estimation on when will you have the PCM2707 available in your parts shop? I want to order everything I can from there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

fwiw, that chip is ONLY needed on the usb board and if you don't need the usb conversion part of things (immediately) then you can still build the dac board part of the project and enjoy spdif input.

 then when the pcm chip finally comes out again, you can build the usb part of the project.


----------



## MisterX

The PCM2706 is available at Mouser and Digi-key. 

Digi-Key - 296-15275-5-ND (Texas Instruments - PCM2706PJT)

PCM2706PJTG4

 There is no need to wait if you are located in the US.


----------



## Alcaudon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MisterX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is no need to wait if you are located in the US. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Damn!!!, why did I choose to be born in Spain??????


----------



## MisterX

I'll trade!!!!!!

 58°F and Mostly Cloudy sounds much better then 18°F and Cloudy. 

 Will throw in the foot of snow on the ground as a bonus.


----------



## linuxworks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alcaudon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Damn!!!, why did I choose to be born in Spain??????










_

 

....NOBODY EVER EXPECT THE SPA-

 oh wait.

 sorry.

 (grin)


----------



## linuxworks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MisterX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The PCM2706 is available at Mouser and Digi-key. 

Digi-Key - 296-15275-5-ND (Texas Instruments - PCM2706PJT)

PCM2706PJTG4

 There is no need to wait if you are located in the US. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

the 2706 is pin compatible and just lower voltage output (on the line-outs) right? so it ONLY matters if you use line-outs - which on the usb board you do NOT, correct?

 edit: maybe I'm thinking of the wolfson and not the pcm chip.


----------



## cobaltmute

The PCM2706 supports an external rom, which is not used in the project. Otherwise they seem to be identical.


----------



## linuxworks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cobaltmute* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The PCM2706 supports an external rom, which is not used in the project. Otherwise they seem to be identical._

 

I noticed that - it seems you can over-ride the 'ti burr brown' strings if you really wanted to 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 that certainly does not matter to us! so its nice to have 2 choices in the same equiv part.

 thanks.


----------



## Alcaudon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MisterX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll trade!!!!!!

 58°F and Mostly Cloudy sounds much better then 18°F and Cloudy. 

 Will throw in the foot of snow on the ground as a bonus. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Holy crap!!!!!!!! 

 Colder than Yeti's armpit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 where I'm form we don't even know what snow means 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *linuxworks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_....NOBODY EVER EXPECT THE SPA-

 oh wait.

 sorry.

 (grin) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Nobody ever expect nothing from us...... but the truth is that we are there, watching in the shadows 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Stop joking now gents, this is a serious thread, amb will spank me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Seriously now, I'm planning to pair this DAC with an amp that I've not started yet, in the same case, so there's no hurry for me. Anyway, many thanks for your suggestions


----------



## rds

A good test track for your new DAC:
Michael Mayer â€“ Audision Gamma Limit â€“ Listen free and discover music at Last.fm

 seriously if anyone can take gamma to the limit...


----------



## amb

The official γ1 website is now live. Please have a look. The Specifications section and a small portion of the parts list section is still under construction but it is otherwise complete and usable.


----------



## ruZZ.il

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The official γ1 website is now live. Please have a look._

 

Good stuff ! The way you organized all the options seems really helpful. It really clarifies some stuff for ppl. Any chance the BOM will be available in a spreadsheet file ? 
 Happy holidays to all ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Must add: Very concise. Very cool.


----------



## digger945

Wow, thanks Ti. 
 I can't wait to get started now.


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ruZZ.il* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any chance the BOM will be available in a spreadsheet file ?_

 

You can DIY one.


----------



## error401

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ruZZ.il* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good stuff ! The way you organized all the options seems really helpful. It really clarifies some stuff for ppl._

 

Agreed! That was definitely my biggest complaint with the prototype build - I ended up buying way more parts than I actually needed for my usb-only build. I wonder if using coloured backgrounds on those cells would make it a little easier to use.

 As usual very impressed with the quantity and quality of documentation there. Ti, your site is definitely a benchmark for good project documentation, and I'm sure I'm not the only one that appreciates the time you put into it.


----------



## holland

nice job, Ti and MisterX.


----------



## qusp

we have a BOM made up for the Aussie GB; try contacting FordGT or I actually have a copy. its an EXCEL file pretty sure its bug free. any takers?? i'm sure Ford wouldnt mind.


----------



## dude_500

I somehow managed to break the center pin off my MCP100 (U4D)... are there other substitutions I might have, or any ideas of what devices might have one that I could pull from?

 Rather not pay shipping or wait for a single little part


----------



## grendel23

I just finished my Gamma 1 build.
 Assembly was easy and straight forward.
 I built the standard full configuration BOM except I used Blackgate NX caps on the output. The Blackgate caps will need to burn in before they sound right, but it sounds quite good now.
 I would recommend builders have a loupe to inspect the smd devices after soldering, my 46 year old eyes needed the help.


----------



## digger945

Congrats grendel. Say it sounds pretty good eh?
 Yea I have a helping hands with a mag glass but I think I may need something a bit more powerful. We are in the same boat when it comes to eyes and age LOL.


----------



## fordgtlover

Just finished my standard build y1. My new Hakko 936 made the surface mount soldering quite straightforward.

 It sounds really nice.

 Pics here.

 I have a dilemma with the case. I have a black case and the very nice black AMB face plates, but I only have stainless 6-32 socket screws. Hmm... Will that look a bit odd?

 I might just tap out the case and have a look. If it looks a little odd, I'll track down some black screws.

 Edit: Here is a link to the finished photos. It looks fine IMHO. I'll leave the screws as they are.

 Thanks again to AMB Labs X-Audio for another great project.


----------



## NelsonVandal

Now I'm awaiting some reviews. Is it better than the Zero DAC, those Ebay DAC kits or the new Cambridge DAC and such?


----------



## fordgtlover

I've got one of those ebay DACs. I'll give the y1 a good listen tonight and report back


----------



## fc911c

I have mine up and running and it sounds great. The build went with out a hitch.


----------



## gspence2000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grendel23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just finished my Gamma 1 build.
 Assembly was easy and straight forward.
 I built the standard full configuration BOM except I used Blackgate NX caps on the output. The Blackgate caps will need to burn in before they sound right, but it sounds quite good now.
 I would recommend builders have a loupe to inspect the smd devices after soldering, my 46 year old eyes needed the help._

 

Would you mind telling me the blackgate model numbers that you used for C24 and C25 (and C22 if you used a blackgate there)? I don't want to get the wrong thing. Thanks!


----------



## grendel23

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gspence2000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would you mind telling me the blackgate model numbers that you used for C24 and C25 (and C22 if you used a blackgate there)? I don't want to get the wrong thing. Thanks!_

 

I used 4.7uf NX HI-Q caps on C24 and C25, and did not populate C26 and C27. These are lower in value than the standard, but will work fine with an amp with 50K ohm input impedance.
 I bought these for my Alien DAC and since they were discontinued, I bought extras.
 You may have a hard time finding these caps, but they are worth using if you can find them.


----------



## jinp6301

Can anyone who has built one compare the sound to another dac?


----------



## digger945

ruZZ.il has spoken favorably of the Gamma's SQ, but does not mention names.
 Shouldn't be much longer until we see some side by side comparisons.


----------



## TheRobbStory

Side by side, the black one sounds a little darker, while the silver one sounds more 'metal'


----------



## KT88

ruZZ.il, me, and another friend had a little meeting a couple of weeks ago. We compared the y1 to DAC Ah (with mods) and to a balanced Opus. All of them worked with a B22 (balanced) on K701 (balanced).

 The result were quite surprising as the y1 was unbelievably similar to the Opus, there were a few minor differences, but I dont think there was a definitive winner between the two.
 In fact we were so pleasantly surprised that for such a low sum of money and in such a small case you get sch a high sound quality, that me and a few other friend have decided to build one for each of us, so now we are just waiting for the parts to arrive and than we'll have 4 more y1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can't wait to see what Ti will be able to do once he gets going with that high-end DAC he's been talking about. If the y1 at this price and size is such a great DAC, than I guess we're all in for a treat


----------



## digger945

Great looking Gamma's Robb.

 ^Thanks for the encouraging word KT. I really look forward to whatever Ti's got in the pipe.

 Did you use two Gamma's to feed the balanced Beta?


----------



## KT88

no, the B22 used a SE input and the conversion to balanced was done internally.


----------



## digger945

OK thanks KT.

 I meant to add that I cannot imagine how much time and effort it took MisterX and Ti to design this little DAC, and no doubt much more for the future projects, not to mention making all the pcb's and part's made available to us all, with mucho help and guidance on these forums.


----------



## jinp6301

Thanks KT88

 I'm just waiting for MisterX to start selling these. I have no DIY skills


----------



## koike

I think i took off the Pin1 U1D solder pad.
 But looking from the schematic, U1D Pin1 is not in use.
 Can I just leave it?


----------



## ruZZ.il

It is unused, just make sure the solder pad is either off and out of the way, or out of the way..


----------



## koike

thanks ruZZ, waiting for the rest of my smd parts to arrive before i start on the rest.


----------



## Bismar

Just finished my y1 DAC and have encountered a problem.

 When going through the initial test guide on amb's site, it fails at the 3.3v to ground with VCC and Vbus jumpered with a usb lead plugged into a computer.

 I get ~ 4.95 volts instead of 3.3v.

 How do i find out which component is faulty?


----------



## MisterX

Check to make sure there no solder bridges on either U1U (pins 2 and 3) or U2U (pins 1 and 2).


----------



## Bismar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MisterX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Check to make sure there no solder bridges on either U1U (pins 2 and 3) or U2U (pins 1 and 2)._

 

Both are reading much more then 20 k ohms so i assume bridges arn't the problem.

 Anything else i could try?


----------



## MisterX

Quote:


 Anything else i could try? 
 

Do you have pictures?


----------



## Bismar




----------



## amb

Check for cold joints on U3U, in particular pin 2 (the middle one on the side with 3). It should be connected to ground. You can use the ground strips along the edges of the board for your DMM.


----------



## GeWa

My boards + stuff and custom plates arrived today. Thanks Ti 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Regards


----------



## Bismar

I reflowed U2U and U3U still ~4.5 volts on the 3.3v test point.

 Is it possible i may have damaged one of the SMD's? And if so, how do i test if they are dead?

 Also the computer does not recognize the usb board if that helps.


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bismar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I reflowed U2U and U3U still ~4.5 volts on the 3.3v test point.

 Is it possible i may have damaged one of the SMD's? And if so, how do i test if they are dead?_

 

Well, before you gebugging anything else, the supply voltage has to be right first. That leaves only the voltage regulator chips themselves. Did you use the wrong chip for U3U? What does its markings say?


----------



## MisterX

Ti....from this image ---> 
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/4233/1001822zv9.jpg

 U3U = "LORA" (LP2985AIM5-3.3)

 But I cannot tell from the pics what the numbers are on U2U so....


----------



## amb

Ok, so it's the correct chip. Aside from bad solder joints there is not much else that could cause the voltage to be incorrect, unless the regulator itself is blown (as an internal short).


----------



## Bismar

U2U reads A08G.
 U3U reads LORA.

 I don't have spares of either of those, only have a spare PCM2707 but that's hard to remove and i wouldn't want to unless you guys are really sure.

 I already tried reflowing the joints, so i don't think its a bad solder joint. Is there anything else i can test ? Maybe some other component thats linked to either of those chips under power?


----------



## amb

Nothing will cause the voltage regulator to output _more_ voltage than what it's supposed to output, unless its ground reference pin is not making contact to circuit ground, or there is a short circuit from its input to output (which could be an internal short due to a blown regulator, or a solder bridge somewhere, or a PCB defect). You said that you/ve reflowed the regulator's joints, so you've probably eliminated the first possibility. That leaves the others. Have you measured the resistance between pins 1 and 5 of the voltage regulator chip?


----------



## Bismar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nothing will cause the voltage regulator to output more voltage than what it's supposed to output, unless its ground reference pin is not making contact to circuit ground, or there is a short circuit from its input to output (which could be an internal short due to a blown regulator, or a solder bridge somewhere, or a PCB defect). You said that you/ve reflowed the regulator's joints, so you've probably eliminated the first possibility. That leaves the others. Have you measured the resistance between pins 1 and 5 of the voltage regulator chip?_

 

Pin 1-5 = 1339 ohms
 Pin 2- Ground strips = 0 ohms


----------



## Bismar

Come to think of it, Pin 1-5 should be way more ohms then that, seeing its off unless the multimeter somehow made the logic go high.

 Ok maybe not, the U5D chip on the other board shows 1160 ohms.

 In fact most of its resistance to ground is similar to the one on the USB board.


----------



## amb

I would try removing U3U and see if the short persists on the board, or if it's within the chip.


----------



## Bismar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would try removing U3U and see if the short persists on the board, or if it's within the chip._

 

So, if i remove it from the board i should expect 0 volts at 3.3v test point? How about the 5v test point?

 And if i still get a voltage at the 3.3v test point then it's a short from somewhere else?


----------



## amb

That's correct, without U3U there shouldn't be any voltage at the 3.3V test point. The 5V test points should still be about 5V when it's plugged into the USB port. Obviously, without a 3.3V to supply the chips the computer won't detect anything.

 If you still get more than a couple volts at the 3.3V test point without U3D, then there is a short somewhere on the board.


----------



## Bismar

Hahahah.

 This is gold, somehow by measuring each of the pins resistance to ground, i have made it to work.

 Pretty much decided to test it one last time before i proceeded to desolder it and it WORKS!!!

 Thanks for all your help amb and MisterX.

 Windows detects it, and i am now playing some music through it


----------



## amb

Btw, your photos don't show a jumper across the VCC and VBUS pins on J2U. You have to install one for this test...

 EDIT: Oops, we were posting at the same time.

 Yeah, so it's a solder joint issue after all.


----------



## Bismar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Btw, your photos don't show a jumper across the VCC and VBUS pins on J2U. You have to install one for this test...

 EDIT: Oops, we were posting at the same time.

 Yeah, so it's a solder joint issue after all._

 

How can it be a solder joint? All i did was measure the pins to ground strips with a multimeter and it worked somehow 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Didn't even go near the soldering iron. Maybe the chip was somehow stuck.


----------



## amb

By exerting pressure on the chip's pin(s) you have made a previously-unconnected joint make contact. This is probably temporary until you reflow the suspect joint to permantly fix it.


----------



## Bismar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_By exerting pressure on the chip's pin(s) you have made a previously-unconnected joint make contact. This is probably temporary until you reflow the suspect joint to permantly fix it._

 

Fair enough. I'll do it later, time to enjoy the DAC


----------



## Possede

Hello, just wondering if anyone knew if there were any places that offered the gamma-1 DAC as a kit - like the kits from Glassjar audio.


----------



## amb

Sorry, Jeff (Glassjar Audio) has his hands quite full at the moment so there is no full kit available. Aside from the PCB and parts from me, all the other parts are readily available from Digikey/Mouser/Farnell/RS, etc. See the official γ1 website for details.


----------



## Possede

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry, Jeff (Glassjar Audio) has his hands quite full at the moment so there is no full kit available. Aside from the PCB and parts from me, all the other parts are readily available from Digikey/Mouser/Farnell/RS, etc. See the official γ1 website for details._

 

If my Mini^3 project is a success, I'll order the parts for the Gamma-1 DAC. I take it the Gamma-1 would be a step-up from my Creative soundcard? I was looking at purchasing the Musical Fidelity V-DAC, however, I presume the Gamma-1 would probably be on-par if not better than it (And I do enjoy the pleasures of DIY). 

 Thanks AMB.


----------



## rhys h

Im stuck between buying a cambridge dacmagic or building one of these!


----------



## DaMnEd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Possédé* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If my Mini^3 project is a success, I'll order the parts for the Gamma-1 DAC. I take it the Gamma-1 would be a step-up from my Creative soundcard? I was looking at purchasing the Musical Fidelity V-DAC, however, I presume the Gamma-1 would probably be on-par if not better than it (And I do enjoy the pleasures of DIY). 

 Thanks AMB. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

If you go with Digi-Key for the parts you can just use the already done (and great) aussie Group-buy BOM: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5131615-post1.html

*fordgtlover* made a great job!


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaMnEd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you go with Digi-Key for the parts you can just use the already done (and great) aussie Group-buy BOM: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5131615-post1.html

*fordgtlover* made a great job! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yep, that BOM ended up working out great for the full config. Though fordgtlover did end up swapping over to resistors from Farnell to save us a little money.

 Also, we ended up buying PCM2706 instead of 2707, due to weirdness with the 2707 stock levels. The 2706 is pin compatible and works perfectly in my build.


----------



## ShockValue

Just ordered all the parts for a USB+DAC only setup. Hope I don't blow it up since all my previous DIY has been a couple of CMoys


----------



## koike

edit: found the problem


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koike* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_edit: found the problem 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

...... well don't edit it out. Tell us what the problem was, and how you fixed it.

 Can be very helpful to others that way!


----------



## wiatrob

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhys h* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Im stuck between buying a cambridge dacmagic or building one of these!_

 

I've been slacking on my y1 parts order, otherwise I'd be able to offer you a comparative review. Soon!


----------



## rhys h

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wiatrob* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been slacking on my y1 parts order, otherwise I'd be able to offer you a comparative review. Soon!_

 

I will wait, patiently


----------



## qusp

how's everyone from the aussie GB going with this?? hasnt been any movement over on the thread since the parts arrived. I myself havent got the time to do the build just yet and also need to decide on a case so I can use my eichmann RCA socket and switchcraft chassis mount mini I may well have been able to use the regular case, as the eichmann isnt actually that big, we'll see once i've put the boards together some time after next week. but i'm keen to hear from any of teh aussies that have done the build or are in the middle of it. there hasnt been any chatter, whats going on???


----------



## koike

yeah thats true beefy.
 didnt think about that when i edited.

 here was the problem. i couldnt get windows to detect the USB board.
 and that i couldnt get the 3.3V at the test point. I read what amb said a few posts ago and reflowed U3U and it worked!

 Everything worked fine. built it in approximately 5 hours.
 its feeding my aego m now.


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_there hasnt been any chatter, whats going on???_

 

Just posting in a different place! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/pos...ml#post5251895

 [EDIT] And Headwize too...... but it seems to be broken?!?


----------



## nattonrice

I got the parts back on monday from the GB but unfortunately my soldering iron is out of commission... to compound the problem I am overseas for a month very soon so...
 Nice to see other's having a good time with it thou o(^-^)o


----------



## Bismar

Built mine, had been debugging it in this thread in the last few pages. It's all working now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Haven't gotten around to taking a picture of it, because well it would look the same as everyone elses


----------



## Daveze

I've nearly finished the two I ordered as part of the Aussie GB. I spent nearly the entire day soldering: nearly finished off two MiniMAX's and a made it a long way through the two y1's. 

 TBH, I absolutely loath SMD. I've been resisting it for a while but should I get an adjustable temp iron? As I got towards the end of the SMD soldering I was seriously wondering which would be more painful: continuing with the soldering or just sticking the iron in my right eye. I'm using a 55W (I think) Goot pencil but with the fine tip its nigh impossible to keep the tip tinned, which meant I had a mongrel of a time getting good heat transfer into the joints.


----------



## amb

Daveze, did you use any flux? If not, that's most of the problem. If you were using flux, then maybe you used too little?

 As the saying goes... flux is the magic sauce.


----------



## Possede

I've ordered all the parts for the y1. Before I start, I'm just wondering what temperature is recommended for doing SMD parts? My soldering station can go up to 450 degrees celsius. Is it better to have a slightly higher temperature but with the minimum amount of contact with the pins? Hopefully the project goes well, and I'll get some pictures up in the coming weeks. I'm also doing a Mini^3, and I hope that y1 paired with the Mini^3 is a step up from my Creative soundcard.


----------



## linuxworks

here's my y1 all cased up and sitting on top of my DIY pimeta:


----------



## digger945

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Daveze, did you use any flux? If not, that's most of the problem. If you were using flux, then maybe you used too little?

 As the saying goes... flux is the magic sauce. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I got the Kester #951 No-clean and the #186 type RMA pens from Digikey.
 I bought them specifically for the Gamma 1, but I don't find much info on using solder pens here or elsewhere.

 What do you use?


----------



## fishski13

amb,
 i realize that it wasn't apart of the the portable design goals, but would there be any significant benefit from powering the gamma-1 with a sigma 11 PS for desktop use?


----------



## amb

A σ11 setup for 5V could be used, but it would certainly be beyond overkill.


----------



## fishski13

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A σ11 setup for 5V could be used, but it would certainly be beyond overkill._

 

i'm o.k. with overkill, but "beyond overkill" is maybe a bit too much 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## bperboy

I'm having difficulty in getting the USB board to output 3.3v at the test point. I've already replaced the TPS79333DBVR and reflowed the joints for surrounding parts. 

 I've tested resistance between 3.3v TP and ground, got ~60kOhms. About the same between 5v TP and ground.

 Between pins 1 and 5 of TPS79333DBVR, I get ~50kOhms. Between pin 2 and ground, I get 0 ohms.


----------



## srserl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Possédé* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've ordered all the parts for the y1. Before I start, I'm just wondering what temperature is recommended for doing SMD parts? My soldering station can go up to 450 degrees celsius. Is it better to have a slightly higher temperature but with the minimum amount of contact with the pins? Hopefully the project goes well, and I'll get some pictures up in the coming weeks. I'm also doing a Mini^3, and I hope that y1 paired with the Mini^3 is a step up from my Creative soundcard. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I use the same temperature (325C) for SMD or through hole; the temp depends on the type of solder you use (lead/tin, or lead-free). At this temperature, I find it takes 1.5-2 seconds per pin on IC smd, 1.5-2 seconds per side for 0805 size smd, and and 2-2.5 seconds per side for 1206 size smd. Through hole soldering at this temp takes 2-4 seconds per joint, depending on the size of the leads.
 For lead-free solder, I use just over 375C, but I have only done a small bit of soldering with it so far.


----------



## bperboy

Also, when checking the dac board only, I do get 3.3v from that test point, but 5.2vdc from the 4.75 test point.


----------



## MisterX

From a few pages ago: 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* 
_Nothing will cause the voltage regulator to output more voltage than what it's supposed to output, unless its ground reference pin is not making contact to circuit ground, or there is a short circuit from its input to output (which could be an internal short due to a blown regulator, or a solder bridge somewhere, or a PCB defect)._

 


  Quote:


 5.2vdc from the 4.75 test point. 
 

What is the supply voltage?


----------



## bperboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MisterX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From a few pages ago:_

 

I've already reflowed the joints and replaced the 3.3 regulator once. Should I try replacing the 3.3 regulator again?


  Quote:


 What is the supply voltage? 
 

5.2 VDC. Same as the 4.75 test point reading.


----------



## Possede

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *srserl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I use the same temperature (325C) for SMD or through hole; the temp depends on the type of solder you use (lead/tin, or lead-free). At this temperature, I find it takes 1.5-2 seconds per pin on IC smd, 1.5-2 seconds per side for 0805 size smd, and and 2-2.5 seconds per side for 1206 size smd. Through hole soldering at this temp takes 2-4 seconds per joint, depending on the size of the leads.
 For lead-free solder, I use just over 375C, but I have only done a small bit of soldering with it so far._

 

Thank you for your input. Can't wait to get these projects started.


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Daveze* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_TBH, I absolutely loath SMD. I've been resisting it for a while but should I get an adjustable temp iron? As I got towards the end of the SMD soldering I was seriously wondering which would be more painful: continuing with the soldering or just sticking the iron in my right eye. I'm using a 55W (I think) Goot pencil but with the fine tip its nigh impossible to keep the tip tinned, which meant I had a mongrel of a time getting good heat transfer into the joints._

 

Hey mate. I used one of these flux pens from Jaycar and this video guide.

 Worked an absolute treat.


----------



## MisterX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bperboy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've already reflowed the joints and replaced the 3.3 regulator once. Should I try replacing the 3.3 regulator again?_

 

I wouldn't, you already replaced it once and it didn't help. Right? 
 What is the exact problem @ the 3.3volt test point? 



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bperboy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_5.2 VDC. Same as the 4.75 test point reading._

 

So you know what to look for on U6D?


----------



## bperboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MisterX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What is the exact problem @ the 3.3volt test point?_

 

The voltage reading is ~5.0 VDC instead of 3.3 vdc.



  Quote:


 So you know what to look for on U6D? 
 

Cold joints? I've reflowed this chip as well.


----------



## digger945

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey mate. I used one of these flux pens from Jaycar and this video guide.

 Worked an absolute treat._

 

Thanks for the link to the video tutorial. A mountain of info in a short video.
 Exactly what I have been lookin for.


----------



## bmwpowere36m3

I've been eyeing this DAC for sometime now and I think its time to update my current iMod Mini (DAC). I actually had a question as to how this DAC compares to others, as I really don't see direct comparisons. Curiously I was wondering how it fairs to the Music Fidelity V-DAC, since I heard some glowing reviews about it at a local HiFi store.


----------



## vixr

Woo Hoo!!! I finished my gamma1 and it works perfectly... My toughbook on the other hand is really fighting me with the settings to run the DAC with. When I finished testing, I plugged in the USB cable and the note at the tray said: new hardware found, Audio DAC found, human interface device found, new hardware installed and ready for use. Thats it... no matter what settings I use on the laptop, no sound. I'm running it with my mini3. I connected to the back of my DVD player through the coaxial port and I can hear the movie playing just fine. sigh....

 P.S. I spared you guys the pictures, since it looks exactly like all the others shown.


----------



## linuxworks

windows sucks...

 look around for control panels for audio. try to make the usb audio 'speakers' your default device in the audio control panel (the generic windows one).

 make SURE the faders are all the way up.

 also do a reboot - since sometimes there are 'internal' windows volume sliders that get set and not reset by the user.

 de-install (x-out) existing audio devices, then plug in your usb device and set that as the default windows device for sound.


----------



## MisterX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bperboy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cold joints? I've reflowed this chip as well._

 

Show me. 
 (let's make sure you have all of the chips in their right spots and so on)


 vixr: 
 You sure you have all of the jumpers in the right spots?


----------



## rjkdivin

I finished up my 4 Gamma ones....all working wonderfully! This is a very nice DAC, and a great companion to the Mini3. 
 I tried an experiment on soldering the ICs this time by using only a flux pen on the PCB traces and on the bottoms of the IC legs. It works very well when the tinning on the PCB is thick, and makes an extremely clean job, but I got a few dry joints where the tinning was not real thick. I checked continuity of every lead with a Fluke meter, but that isn't good enough using this method. I also had to mechanically check every lead by pushing sideways on it with a small screwdriver also. After suplementing the dry leads with a small dab of solder, all was well, and each DAC is working flawlessly. I find using a microscope for all my soldering on a PCB this tight is very helpful.
 The planning that AMB put into this project is astounding.....very nice job and excellent support as usual!
 My photo host is down right now, but I'll post a few pictures later.
 rjkdivin


----------



## bperboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MisterX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Show me. 
 (let's make sure you have all of the chips in their right spots and so on)_

 

Hope quality is good enough; I'm lacking a macro lens.


----------



## amb

bperboy, I'm a little confused by what you reported. You said that you were getting 5V out of both the 3.3V and 4.5V test points, and then you said that you had 3.3V. So which is it? And on which board?

 The photos you posted aren't clear enough for me to discern the markings on the voltage regulator chips. Can you tell me what it says on U3U, U5D and U6D?


----------



## bperboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_bperboy, I'm a little confused by what you reported. You said that you were getting 5V out of both the 3.3V and 4.5V test points, and then you said that you had 3.3V. So which is it? And on which board?_

 

Sorry I wasn't clear; on the USB board, I get 5vdc from the 5 v test point, and still 5v from the 3.3V test point. 

 On the DAC board, I get 3.3V from the 3.3 test point, but I get 5.2vdc (supply), from the 4.75 test point. 

  Quote:


 The photos you posted aren't clear enough for me to discern the markings on the voltage regulator chips. Can you tell me what it says on U3U, U5D and U6D? 
 

These are as best I can tell.. still very small, even with a magnifying glass.

 U3U: PHU1
 U5D: PHU1
 U6D: PHJ1


----------



## amb

OK, at least you have the right chips in each location. "PHUI" is TPS79333 and "PHJI" is TPS793475.

 I think you probably still have a bad joint at pin 2 of both U3U and U6D. Try reflowing it again. Also inspect each of these very carefully for solder bridges.


----------



## ltmon

Hi All,

 Just finished building mine as part of the Aussie Group Buy. Unfortunately I'm not quite getting full operation yet. Was hoping that some wiser heads could help me with how to get going debugging the following symptoms:

 - All voltages measure just fine
 - LED goes green, great sound when using coaxial
 - USB DAC is detected by my computer and the computer is quite happy playing to this device, adjusting PCM volume etc.
 - Red LED lights up on the DAC board when plugged in
 - No sound, LED doesn't ever go green whe using USB
 - I don't have an optical output device to test with

 This is a full build, and I have the jumpers set for SPDIF. I'm using Linux to run this (don't have any other OS), but this has worked fine in the past for an Alien DAC.

 I'd love to get some pointers as to where to look for the issue. I've done the obvious checking of all component values, continuity, checking for bridges etc. etc. but after several hours of this need some expert help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Cheers,

 L.

 (Taking photos now, will post if anyone thinks they'll be useful).


----------



## ltmon

I swear this happens every time 5 minutes after I resort to asking for help....

 I decide to do one last look over, and find a bad connection on a critical pin of U1U (DATA). A quick reflow and "Damn it feels good to be a gangsta" is now annoying the neighbours.

 Big thanks to Amb and the team plus FordGTLover for the group buy organisation. Now to enjoy this awesome little device...


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ltmon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ - All voltages measure just fine
 - LED goes green, great sound when using coaxial_

 

OK, this narrows the problem down to only two main areas, either the PCM2707 or on the software side.

  Quote:


 - USB DAC is detected by my computer and the computer is quite happy playing to this device, adjusting PCM volume etc. 
 

I assume that this refers to the Alien DAC, not γ1.

  Quote:


 - Red LED lights up on the DAC board when plugged in
 - No sound, LED doesn't ever go green whe using USB 
 

First thing to do on your Linux machine is to run the "dmesg" command from a shell prompt immediately after plugging in the USB cable. Do you see any messages pertaining to the device? On mine, it says this (your controller and port numbers are likely to be different):
  Code:


```
[left]usb 2-2: new full speed USB device using ohci_hcd and address 8 usb 2-2: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice input: Burr-Brown from TI USB Audio DAC as /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:12.1/usb2/2-2/2-2:1.2/input/input14 input,hidraw1: USB HID v1.00 Device [Burr-Brown from TI USB Audio DAC ] on usb-0000:00:12.1-2 usb 2-2: New USB device found, idVendor=08bb, idProduct=2707 usb 2-2: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=0 usb 2-2: Product: USB Audio DAC usb 2-2: Manufacturer: Burr-Brown from TI[/left]
```

Also, type the "lsusb" command. It should show the "08bb:2707 Texas Intruments Japan" entry. On mine, it looks like this:
  Code:


```
[left]Bus 006 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub Bus 005 Device 003: ID 090c:c371 Feiya Technology Corp. Bus 005 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub Bus 004 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub Bus 003 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub Bus 002 Device 008: ID 08bb:2707 Texas Instruments Japan Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub Bus 001 Device 002: ID 1267:0201 Logic3 / SpectraVideo plc A4Tech SWOP-3 Mouse Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub[/left]
```

The above would at least help to determine whether Linux "sees" the DAC.
 By the way, unlike the Alien or Bantam, the Linux ALSA PCM volume control will have no effect. You should connect the γ1 to an amp and use the amp's volume control.

 Also, what are you using as your software media player application? You may need to explicitly configure it to use the USB Audio DAC as the output device, because it might not be the default.


----------



## amb

Ah, we're posting at the same time. I'm glad it's all good now.


----------



## ltmon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah, we're posting at the same time. I'm glad it's all good now.



_

 

The quick answer is appreciated anyway, sorry for the time wasted.


----------



## Daveze

So I've finished one of the builds...mostly. Passed all of the checks until it came to test USB operation, all I get is hiss. The switch turns green but I get hiss in both channels (even if only sending a 'mono' signal, ie using the speaker test function). I'm going to reboot the laptop in hope that it is just Windows...


----------



## Daveze

Well, the reboot did something: the green light still comes on but now it makes no sound at all. Where should I start looking?


----------



## Beefy

Any more details about the setup? Something does sounds odd compared to mine running through Foobar/ASIO under WinXP; on mine the switch light stays red until music actually plays. When stopping or pausing it goes red immediately.

 All I can suggest is you check that the right playback device is selected in the Sound control panel, all volumes sliders are at maximum both in the sound card properties and your playback software, nothing is muted, etc etc.

 I suppose another option is to skip the USB tests and see whether it works with coax or optical inputs?


----------



## linuxworks

folks, just a reminder - with linux and freebsd (at least) audio usb devices often do NOT WANT TO BE BEHIND A HUB!

 simply moving my usb audio box (bantam or gamma1) from a hub to a real actual pc motherboard port solved my 'cant see the device' errors. or you'd see the device but it would not properly talk.

 keep this in mind while debugging. its a known linux/freebsd usb-audio bug ;(


----------



## bperboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK, at least you have the right chips in each location. "PHUI" is TPS79333 and "PHJI" is TPS793475.

 I think you probably still have a bad joint at pin 2 of both U3U and U6D. Try reflowing it again. Also inspect each of these very carefully for solder bridges._

 

I've reflowed the three pin side of both chips, and both still read as the supply voltage; no regulation taking place.


----------



## MisterX

What is the voltage on pin 4 of each of the malfunctioning regulators?


----------



## bperboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MisterX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What is the voltage on pin 4 of each of the malfunctioning regulators?_

 

For U3U, pin 4 to ground measures ~ 1.7 VDC

 For U6D, pin 4 to ground measures ~2.24 VDC


----------



## amb

Daveze, check for cold joints on the entire right side of the CS8416 (pins 15-28) and all pins on the WM8501, or just reflow them anyway.

 bperboy, with power off, measure the resistance between pins 1 and 5 (IN and OUT) of both regulators. What do you get? Also double check by measuring resistance from the the top of pin 2 to ground to make sure you have continuity.


----------



## bperboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_bperboy, with power off, measure the resistance between pins 1 and 5 (IN and OUT) of both regulators. What do you get? Also double check by measuring resistance from the the top of pin 2 to ground to make sure you have continuity._

 

U3U:
 Pins 1 & 5: ~70kOhms
 Pin 2 to Ground: ~2.5 ohms

 U6D:
 Pins 1 & 5: ~850kOhms
 Pin 2 to Ground: ~0.5 ohms


----------



## amb

bperboy, 0.5 ohms from pin 2 to ground sounds reasonable (and is what I'd expect most DMMs to read for actual 0 ohms), but 2.5 ohms is a trifle high... At least there doesn't seem to be a short from input to output.

 I'm not sure why your voltage regulators are misbehaving. is it possible that they may have been overheated from soldering, or zapped by static?


----------



## vixr

SUCCESS!!! I got it working!!! it wasn't my toughbook after all. It was my questionable U1U soldering skills. A quick last resort re-flow and viola! sweet music. OMG does this thing kick ass or what?!? It was a tense second before the toggle went green...what a great boost for my abilities. All the tekheds at work will be as green as my toggle. Woo Hoo!!! Thank you for another great project guys.


----------



## bperboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_bperboy, 0.5 ohms from pin 2 to ground sounds reasonable (and is what I'd expect most DMMs to read for actual 0 ohms), but 2.5 ohms is a trifle high... At least there doesn't seem to be a short from input to output.

 I'm not sure why your voltage regulators are misbehaving. is it possible that they may have been overheated from soldering, or zapped by static?_

 


 It's possible... I think I'll try reflowing pin 2 one more time, but if that doesn't work, I'll go ahead and replace the regulators. I have a few extra anyways. If that doesn't work, then is there any other possibility for problems?


----------



## MisterX

I would suggest reflowing the caps around those regs while you are at it.
 (dunno if you noticed or not but it takes quite a bit of heat to get a good joint on the "ground side" of those caps)


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vixr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_SUCCESS!!! ...
 OMG does this thing kick ass or what?!?_


----------



## Daveze

I was skeptical, I was angry, I was disheartened. All that was before. I'm now elated, ecstatic and inspired. Reflowed the joints on the CS and Wolfson chips, received a cheery little ping-a-ly pong-a-ly sound from the windows channel check and am now listening to some Coheed.

 I pissed off the stupid thin tip and just used the regular tip (I had changed to it for the through hole work anyway) with a steady hand. Voila.

 Answering the earlier questions: I've got a sticky little flux pen but it wasn't really the flux pen that was causing grief, it was the quick corroding (is it corrosion when it turns black, or a different reaction?) of the tip. I thought I'd read somewhere that this was related to the temperature of the tip (too high), or am I inserting a memory to suit my alibi?


----------



## amb

If the iron tip turns black quickly then maybe the heat is up too high. If the iron is not on an adjustable-temperature station, then you need to clean and re-tin the tip often while you work.


----------



## cobaltmute

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Daveze* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, the reboot did something: the green light still comes on but now it makes no sound at all. Where should I start looking?_

 

Stupid question, but how is your I2S/SPDIF jumper set on your USB board. It should be set to SPDIF.


----------



## rhys h

Here we go on my y1 DAC building adventure!


----------



## adamus

how much did the bom + shipping to uk cost rhys?


----------



## rhys h

adam, i have just purchased all the parts that amb stocks, but i expect to spend about £50 at digikey to complete the project, meaning i get free shipping! I am using the BOM from the aussie group buy.


----------



## Daveze

Maybe I should look into a temp controlled station...

 In other news, I used my new-found enthusiasm to finish off the second one. Unfortunately with this one, it also passed all test other than USB function. This one is not recognised by the computer. I thought I heard it make the right sounds during the voltage tests (I wasn't really listening for the sounds though) but after I put it in the case temporarily to keep it away from stray shorts, it decided not to work. I suspect I was imagining things during the voltage tests because I've pulled it back out of the case and reflowed the joints on the PCM but to no avail...

 Have I toasted it?


----------



## Daveze

Oh, and for Cobablt: yes I had the set correctly (1 and 2). I had checked that a number of times.


----------



## amb

Daveze, check the continuity of every pin on U1U to its solder pad. Set your DMM to ohms mode and measure between the top of each pin where it comes out of the chip, and the outer edge of the pad. A set of sharp DMM probes is needed. You should get ~zero ohms for every one of them. Also look very carefully for possible solder bridges (measure between pins). Verify against schematic diagram to see if adjacent pins should be connected to each other.


----------



## adamus

Rhys - whats the total cost you expect?


----------



## rhys h

Full build im expecting to be about £100 excluding shipping from AMB.

 ps. i see you have a dacmagic, you see the y1 is my alternative, as i was going to buy one!


----------



## Daveze

Unfortunately, I'm off to work now. I'll have a look at that tonight.


----------



## Bismar

Just wondering, is it normal to hear a slight soft static sound when the usb indicator goes green? I have my headphones directly plugged into the DAC, which might be the issue.


----------



## vixr

Bismar, mine does it too...but its more of a tiny click


----------



## Bismar

It's not so much as the transition from red to green, but it actually makes a continual static sound as soon as the usb sound is activated. It's pretty soft, but noticeable with my AD700's.


----------



## adamus

I had this with an alien dac. 

 IT was ground noise from the usb. try it on another pc to verify. My main pc has a noisey usb line, my laptop is super quiet.


----------



## Bismar

Hmm, your right, my notebook does not seem to produce any noise at all.

 Is there anyway to remove this problem form my main pc? I don't mind building something if it will work.


----------



## Daveze

I performed the tests as requested. All pin => pad resistances are super low, all pad => pad resistances are super high (except for the connected ones).

 Is it buggered?


----------



## vixr

some strange things... I connected my toughbook (windows XP) to the DAC last night and it wouldn't work. I went through the settings and everything was OK. I had to restart the toughbook with the DAC connected to get it to work. I have it at my job this morning and hooked the DAC to my work computer (vista) and it just started to work without the need to change any settings. I am not computer savvy in the least, but this seems strange.


----------



## m1abrams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bismar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's not so much as the transition from red to green, but it actually makes a continual static sound as soon as the usb sound is activated. It's pretty soft, but noticeable with my AD700's._

 

Do you get the noise while the selector switch is "green"? If you only get it while it is red this is normal.

 Also is it connected to a hub or directly to the computer?

 vixr - You may need to make sure the usb audio device is selected, most systems will not select it as the default if a playback device already existed in the system. Also make sure you are not going through a usb hub such as the ports on the keyboard or monitor, connect it to the computer.


----------



## Bismar

I get the noise when its green, and during playback if the volume is low and not masking it.

 It's connected directly to my pc, although not the motherboard jacks at the rear but through a usb cord to the internal jacks (case jacks).


----------



## adamus

I could not solve this with my pc with the noisey usb line (this is the alien dac).

 maybe a hub would help, but then you can run into other issues. 

 One pc, dead black background. The other noisey. 

 you will struggle to find an answer to this on the net - i gave up.


----------



## m1abrams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bismar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I get the noise when its green, and during playback if the volume is low and not masking it.

 It's connected directly to my pc, although not the motherboard jacks at the rear but through a usb cord to the internal jacks (case jacks)._

 

Have you tried seeing if powering the DAC from an external source makes a difference?


----------



## rhys h

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *adamus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I could not solve this with my pc with the noisey usb line (this is the alien dac).

 maybe a hub would help, but then you can run into other issues. 

 One pc, dead black background. The other noisey. 

 you will struggle to find an answer to this on the net - i gave up._

 

how about using a old PCI soundblaster to get the digital output?

 edit: duhhh, just realised you are talking about the alien dac!


----------



## adamus

I dont get any noise with my dacmagic, which is powered externally.


----------



## rhys h

How about adding a couple of higher value dampening caps to the supply rail?


----------



## gspence2000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bismar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm, your right, my notebook does not seem to produce any noise at all.

 Is there anyway to remove this problem form my main pc? I don't mind building something if it will work._

 

Here is a circuit that provides electrical isolation for a USB signal. It uses an isolated power supply on the "clean" side of the USB signal. Click on "Figure 3" to see the schematic.


----------



## rhys h

nevermind...


----------



## bperboy

Okay, replaced U3U, and now get 3.3v at the test point. Computer found the USB board alright. Replaced the DAC regulator, still get 4.97VDC, but both USB sound and Optical sound work fine. Is this a voltage within spec?


----------



## amb

This is a general comment... if you're running Windows Vista, I recommend that you apply Microsoft's USB audio driver hotfix 944681. It may or may not solve any problems that you might be encountering, but it shouldn't hurt.

 Also, I found that on my HP laptop (while running Vista 64 bit SP1), I get sporadic garbled noise and distortion while playing through USB. This is not just with the γ1, Alien DAC is even worse. But right clicking on the volume control icon in the tooltray and selecting "Recording devices" in the menu to open the recording device configuration window, the noise and distortion goes away. I don't actually have to do anything in that window. Just keeping it open seems to do the trick. Very weird.

 OTOH, running openSUSE 11.1 Linux (2.6.27 64 bit kernel) on the same laptop with ALSA 1.0.18 works just great -- no noise, no distortion.


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bperboy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Replaced the DAC regulator, still get 4.97VDC, but both USB sound and Optical sound work fine. Is this a voltage within spec?_

 

You're using the TPS793475 for U6D, correct? According to the datasheet, the output voltage tolerance is 4.655V to 4.845V. While 4.97V isn't high enough to damage the DAC chip, it is out of spec. Do you still have 5.2V on the input side of the regulator? All these readings are a bit high. Is your DMM accurate?


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Daveze* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I performed the tests as requested. All pin => pad resistances are super low, all pad => pad resistances are super high (except for the connected ones).

 Is it buggered?_

 

Check/reflow the solder joints at U2U and all the surrounding resistors and caps too.


----------



## bperboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You're using the TPS793475 for U6D, correct? According to the datasheet, the output voltage tolerance is 4.655V to 4.845V. While 4.97V isn't high enough to damage the DAC chip, it is out of spec. Do you still have 5.2V on the input side of the regulator? All these readings are a bit high. Is your DMM accurate?_

 

The USB voltage seemed about .2 VDC lower than the wallwart; I will measure when I get back to my room to be sure.


----------



## Daveze

Ti, I could kiss you.

 I know it wasn't the U2U joints, I reflowed those and it still didn't work but I went for a more comprehensive reflowing and attacked every joint with flux and iron. Lo and behold, it works. 

 If only I hadn't forgotten to bring the other mini-USB lead home. I can connect either the DAC or the portable drive with all the music...I'm listening to internet radio at the moment (yes, I could go get the actual cd's but that's suuuch an effort).

 I am happy.


----------



## vixr

same with me... I just knew I did a good job soldering U1U...After I re-flowed the whole thing, it worked.


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Daveze* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ti, I could kiss you._


----------



## rhester

Is the TPS79333DBVREP regulator the same as TPS79333DBV? Will it work on this build?


----------



## Bismar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gspence2000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here is a circuit that provides electrical isolation for a USB signal. It uses an isolated power supply on the "clean" side of the USB signal. Click on "Figure 3" to see the schematic._

 

Had a look at the diagram and read the article, and i don't understand it much 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What exactly does this circuit do? I see data signals going in but where do they come out at? Also does that mean i still need to build a regulated psu to power the isolated side?

 I also tried the Microsoft hotfix and the open recording window, and static still remains. It's not that prevalent on the AD700's but for my SuperFi 3Studio it is very noticeable.

 One thing i notice is, by plugging the dac into my corda 2 move the static disappears. I take it that if i plan to permanently attach the y1 Dac to an amp, i wouldn't have to worry about the noisy usb line?


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhester* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the TPS79333DBVREP regulator the same as TPS79333DBV? Will it work on this build?_

 

Yes it's the same. The extra suffix letters just denote bulk packaging variations.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bismar* 
_One thing i notice is, by plugging the dac into my corda 2 move the static disappears. I take it that if i plan to permanently attach the y1 Dac to an amp, i wouldn't have to worry about the noisy usb line?_

 

When you plug the headphones directly into the DAC you're essentially running with max volume. When you go through an amp, its volume control attenuates the effective gain, and when the software volume is set to maximum, it gives you the best possible S/N ratio.

 At any rate, have you tried using a 5V regulated wallwart to power the γ1? Maybe the USB power from your computer is _really_ noisy.


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bismar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One thing i notice is, by plugging the dac into my corda 2 move the static disappears. I take it that if i plan to permanently attach the y1 Dac to an amp, i wouldn't have to worry about the noisy usb line?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When you plug the headphones directly into the DAC you're essentially running with max volume. When you go through an amp, its volume control attenuates the effective gain, and when the software volume is set to maximum, it gives you the best possible S/N ratio._

 

Could it also be the case that the DAC is expecting a high impedance at the output, but the 13 ohm impedance of the IEMs - almost a dead short - is causing noise problems?


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Could it also be the case that the DAC is expecting a high impedance at the output, but the 13 ohm impedance of the IEMs - almost a dead short - is causing noise problems?_

 

The WM8501 DAC chip actually has stout enough an internal output stage to drive loads down to 16 ohms. However the γ1 was not designed to be a headphone amp, so its output coupling caps are too small for such low impedance loads (they form a high-pass filter with the load, leading to early bass rolloff). Assuming the stock 23uF output caps, γ1 can drive 300 ohm headphones (i.e., Sennheiser HD6x0) with fc of 23Hz, but with 16 ohm load the fc would rise to 432Hz -- no bass! With a 10K ohm load (i.e., the input of a Mini³), the fc is 0.7Hz.

 At any rate, despite the lack of bass, a low impedance load will not "cause" noise.


----------



## bperboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You're using the TPS793475 for U6D, correct? According to the datasheet, the output voltage tolerance is 4.655V to 4.845V. While 4.97V isn't high enough to damage the DAC chip, it is out of spec. Do you still have 5.2V on the input side of the regulator? All these readings are a bit high. Is your DMM accurate?_

 

On USB power, it measures 4.94 VDC with a 4.96 V supply from USB. 

 With the wallwart, it measures 5.15 VDC with a 5.17 VDC supply.


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_At any rate, despite the lack of bass, a low impedance load will not "cause" noise._

 

Check!


----------



## amb

bperboy, so it looks like your U6D is still not regulating. It's letting just about the full voltage through... With your DMM on DC V mode, measure the voltage at the top of U6D pin 2. Be very careful with the probes! Don't slip and short anything or you risk blowing something. It should be 0V.


----------



## bperboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_bperboy, so it looks like your U6D is still not regulating. It's letting just about the full voltage through... With your DMM on DC V mode, measure the voltage at the top of U6D pin 2. Be very careful with the probes! Don't slip and short anything or you risk blowing something. It should be 0V._

 

Hmm, this is quite odd.. measured from pin 2 to ground, got 0vdc, then measured from the test point again, and got 4.6vdc.

 EDIT: Should one of the USB 5v test points measure 0v when mated with the dac board?


----------



## MisterX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhester* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the TPS79333DBVREP regulator the same as TPS79333DBV?_

 


 The "EP' version is what the people at TI refer to as a "HiRel Enhanced Product". 

 Advantages Over Standard Commercial-Off-The-Shelf Products are: 

 Controlled baseline (one assembly/test site, one wafer fabrication site)
 Extended temperature performance (specific temperature ranges are stated on the
 datasheets and may be as great as -55°C to 125°C)
 Qualification pedigree
 Customer notification of major product changes. 
 Assurance from TI that the device will perform to datasheet electrical specifications in
 environments that require extended temperatures.
 Nickel-Palladium-Gold or Tin-Lead lead finishes are standard.


 (It's an easy and inexpensive way for OEMs to avoid upscreening COTS (Commercial-Off-The-Shelf ) plastic encapsulated microcircuits (PEMs) for use in military and aerospace applications)


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bperboy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm, this is quite odd.. measured from pin 2 to ground, got 0vdc, then measured from the test point again, and got 4.6vdc._

 

It's possible that you still had a marginal joint at pin 2, and exerting pressure with your DMM probe on it made it "connect". Nevertheless, 4.6V is lower than spec now (for a TPS793475)...

  Quote:


 EDIT: Should one of the USB 5v test points measure 0v when mated with the dac board? 
 

No. They should both be about 5V. VCC will be very slightly lower than VBUS (while running on USB power) due to the voltage drop across the TPS2115A power mux chip, but the difference should be in the millivolts.


----------



## Bismar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes it's the same. The extra suffix letters just denote bulk packaging variations.


 When you plug the headphones directly into the DAC you're essentially running with max volume. When you go through an amp, its volume control attenuates the effective gain, and when the software volume is set to maximum, it gives you the best possible S/N ratio.

 At any rate, have you tried using a 5V regulated wallwart to power the γ1? Maybe the USB power from your computer is really noisy._

 

Nope, i do not have a 5v regulated psu. I'll probably have to get one from jaycar.

 Has any Australians have any experience with the MP-3144 regulated power adapters sold by Jaycar?


----------



## vixr

OK, I cant resist...


----------



## bperboy

ARGH. I was not careful, and accidently shorted pins 2 and 3 of U6D (I think). Both test points measure full voltage. I assume I must now replace both regulators. Anything else that is damaged?


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bperboy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ARGH. I was not careful, and accidently shorted pins 2 and 3 of U6D (I think). Both test points measure full voltage. I assume I must now replace both regulators. Anything else that is damaged?_

 

Odd. The voltage regulators' pin 2 is ground and pin 3 is the ENABLE pin (which is connected to pin 1, the INPUT pin). If you had shorted pins 2 and 3, it shouldn't blow the regulators, but would cause the TPS2115A to go into current-limit protection, which should prevent any damage.

 I think you should set the boards aside and start looking at the schematic diagram to try to understand the circuit a bit, at least around the power and voltage regulator sections a bit. Then, start ohming things out carefully while referencing the schematic to try to make sense of what's what. It really is fairly simple and shouldn't be difficult to debug.


----------



## amb

After some testing, MisterX and I have decided to change the value of the R20D resistor. It was originally 75 ohms, the new value is 47K ohms. If you have already built a γ1 with the old value, it is an optional (but recommended) update.

 You should hopefully have some spare 47K resistors because the Panasonic, Xicon and Multicomp resistors from Digikey, Mouser and Farnell, respectively, are sold in multiples of 10.

 Background:

 This resistor terminates the CS8416's RXP0 input, which is used for the S/PDIF datastream from the PCM2707's DOUT pin. Originally it was thought that 75 ohms was the appropriate termination for this line, but the PCM2707's DOUT pin is not "standard" S/PDIF. It's an unbuffered 3.3Vpp TTL output, not intended to drive a long transmission line or a low impedance load such as a 75 ohm resistor. At 75 ohms, the "3.3Vpp" output got loaded down to around 1Vpp. This is still more than enough voltage to drive the CS8416's RXP0 input (which has an VIH threshold of 150mV typ.), but nevertheless it makes the PCM2707's DOUT work harder than it should (1Vpp into 75 ohms is about 13mA of output current).

 Since the distance between the PCM2707 and the CS8416 is short and doesn't qualify as a transmission line, there is no need for line termination. However, a high value resistor helps to keep the S/PDIF pulse waveform clean. We settled on 47K as the new resistor value because does not load the PCM2707 down (the output voltage is now ~3.3Vpp and output current is now only 70uA), gives good S/PDIF pulse waveforms on the scope, and is a value that you should already have.

 Note that this change should reduce the amount of fast current pulses drawn by the PCM2707 and result in a cleaner 3.3V supply rail on the USB board. I don't expect it to actually improve the "sound" or the customary metrics such as noise floor or distortion, but it is a good, simple update, so I encourage you all to make this change.

 The parts list on the γ1 website has been updated to reflect this change.

A change would do you good ( with thanks to MisterX 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## bperboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Odd. The voltage regulators' pin 2 is ground and pin 3 is the ENABLE pin (which is connected to pin 1, the INPUT pin). If you had shorted pins 2 and 3, it shouldn't blow the regulators, but would cause the TPS2115A to go into current-limit protection, which should prevent any damage.

 I think you should set the boards aside and start looking at the schematic diagram to try to understand the circuit a bit, at least around the power and voltage regulator sections a bit. Then, start ohming things out carefully while referencing the schematic to try to make sense of what's what. It really is fairly simple and shouldn't be difficult to debug._

 

Okay, my regulator hasn't blown. Probably just needed to let the current-limit protection reset or something. I measure 3.3v again at that regulator. As for hte two 5v test points, I noticed that both measure ~5 vdc, one a bit lower than the other, when either usb only is plugged in or both usb and the wallwart is plugged in. The test point for J2U- pin 1 doesn't measure any voltage when the wallwart only is plugged in and not usb. Looking at teh schematic, this seems to make sense to me. 

 I have reflowed pins 1-3, measure ~0.2 ohms between pin 2 and ground, infinite resistance between Vin and Vout. Roughly a short through the inductor on the Vout side of things, and good solder joints on all the caps immediately surrounding that particular section of the circuit. 

 It seems to me that the only solution remaining is that the regulator is dead; I find that a bit hard to believe, as this is the second one I've put in. It's a possibility, and I do have a few more regulators, but I'd rather not replace it again.


----------



## Beefy

I don't have any spare 47k resistors...... do you think am I better off leaving the 75R in and keeping DOUT loaded, or pulling the resistor and risking a lower quality SPDIF signal?


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't have any spare 47k resistors...... do you think am I better off leaving the 75R in and keeping DOUT loaded, or pulling the resistor and risking a lower quality SPDIF signal?_

 

I would just remove R20D. If you get 47K resistors in the future you could put it in.


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would just remove R20D. If you get 47K resistors in the future you could put it in._

 

I suspected that would be the case. Cheers!


----------



## Bismar

How important is it to remove R20D straight away? I don't have a 47k ohm resistor lying around and wouldn't be free to get one for a few days.

 Will prolong usage damage the DAC chip?


----------



## amb

As I said, the R20 value update is optional. Nothing would be damaged if you don't do it.


----------



## linuxworks

wow, I replaced r20 and now my coffee tastes even better today!

 (sorry) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I probably won't replace mine. this just shows how robust digital audio really is, that some things can be pretty far out of spec and still lock-on and get good bits from the stream.


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *linuxworks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_this just shows how robust digital audio really is, that some things can be pretty far out of spec and still lock-on and get good bits from the stream._

 

Oh, absolutely. I cringe everytime sometimes tries to explain what jitter sounds like......

 But when the erroneous resistor is making the chip spit out 13mA when it only needs to be 70µA? That is a change worth making IMHO. Even if it isn't damaging, there is no point in running something hard if it has no benefit.


----------



## linuxworks

true - why have extra heat be created.

 I also have never 'heard' jitter. I used to do some live DAT taping at concerts (many years ago) and we used spdif in a tree to divide out the signal. some of the boxes that people brought - and the cables they used - yet all the bits 'got there' just fine. I keep joking that spdif can even run on slightly wet spaghetti and still sound ok 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I know there are many spdif haters in high end audio, but the modern receiver chips really do seem to 'absorb' all the evils and buffer it away.


----------



## bperboy

Wanted to repost a previous post.. think it might've gotten lost already. 


  Quote:


 Okay, my regulator hasn't blown. Probably just needed to let the current-limit protection reset or something. I measure 3.3v again at that regulator. As for hte two 5v test points, I noticed that both measure ~5 vdc, one a bit lower than the other, when either usb only is plugged in or both usb and the wallwart is plugged in. The test point for J2U- pin 1 doesn't measure any voltage when the wallwart only is plugged in and not usb. Looking at teh schematic, this seems to make sense to me. 

 I have reflowed pins 1-3, measure ~0.2 ohms between pin 2 and ground, infinite resistance between Vin and Vout. Roughly a short through the inductor on the Vout side of things, and good solder joints on all the caps immediately surrounding that particular section of the circuit. 

 It seems to me that the only solution remaining is that the regulator is dead; I find that a bit hard to believe, as this is the second one I've put in. It's a possibility, and I do have a few more regulators, but I'd rather not replace it again.


----------



## amb

bperboy, yes, it does seem strange that you would have killed two voltage regulators in a row. But put on your problem-solving cap and think logically -- if you're absolutely sure there are no cold joints or shorts/bridges, and the regulator still doesn't work properly, then what else could be wrong?

 We know that you had a voltage regulator fail before (for whatever reason, overheat from soldering, static discharge), what is there to keep the same from happening to more than one of them?


----------



## ShockValue

Zoinks! Just opened up my packages from AMB today. I didn't get a sense of how small some of those pads are from the pictures I've seen..

 Guess I better go read/watch up on how to solder these things a few more times before I wreck this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 THanks for the quick shipping Ti!


----------



## rhys h

I await for my package..


----------



## cotdt

if anyone lives in the san diego area and needs help assembling their Gamma1 just let me know.


----------



## rhys h

SMD is a real breeze compared to what i was expecting!


----------



## m11a1

Does anyone know where a complete kit of y1 is sold?


----------



## rhys h

There is no complete kit at the moment, but AMB kindly give digikey & mouser part numbers for everything you need.


----------



## m11a1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhys h* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is no complete kit at the moment, but AMB kindly give digikey & mouser part numbers for everything you need._

 

Yea I saw that, I suppose I can do it that way. I was hoping Glass Jar or hobodiy carried it.


----------



## rhys h

Not at the moment, im not sure what the plans are for the future.


----------



## digger945

I've never been so high as when I plugged this into my laptop and it was not only recognized, but works LOL, and sounds great.
 I can't wait for the next project.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Many thanks to MisterX and AMB, I hope others enjoy this as much as I have.


----------



## rhys h

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *digger945* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_








 I've never been so high as when I plugged this into my laptop and it was not only recognized, but works LOL, and sounds great.
 I can't wait for the next project.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Many thanks to MisterX and AMB, I hope others enjoy this as much as I have._

 

red light ? 

 nice DAC


----------



## m1abrams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhys h* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_red light ? 

 nice DAC_

 

red light does not mean it is not working. It just means it is not receiving an audio signal on the selected input.


----------



## bperboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *m1abrams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_red light does not mean it is not working. It just means it is not receiving an audio signal on the selected input._

 

Or, as I understand it, the red light is on when there is no actual music playing under USB connection. When the DAC is connected to either optical or coax, it is green all the time, as long as a good connection is made, even if music isn't playing. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what I've noticed on my y1.


----------



## dude_500

I made the DAC and it works however the light is always green. Sometimes it flickers to red for the blink of an eye when changing modes but it always remains green. 

 It doesn't really matter, but I'm just curious why this is?


----------



## musicmaker

Has anyone compared the sound to a HR microdac or iBasso D1 ? If so, how does the y1 fare ?


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bperboy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Or, as I understand it, the red light is on when there is no actual music playing under USB connection. When the DAC is connected to either optical or coax, it is green all the time, as long as a good connection is made, even if music isn't playing._

 

Yes, this is exactly what happens on mine.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dude_500* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I made the DAC and it works however the light is always green. Sometimes it flickers to red for the blink of an eye when changing modes but it always remains green._

 

Even on USB, when no music is playing? Odd. What platform/OS are you running? What playback software?


----------



## dude_500

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Even on USB, when no music is playing? Odd. What platform/OS are you running? What playback software?_

 

XP and Vista both do it, just media player and win-amp. I can fully unplug USB and run it on the wall power and it is still green, all three sources are green when all it has is wall power.


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dude_500* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_XP and Vista both do it, just media player and win-amp. I can fully unplug USB and run it on the wall power and it is still green, all three sources are green when all it has is wall power._

 

Hmmmm, sounds like your NOR gate chip U8D is doing funny things.


----------



## digger945

Mine was green when the music was playing, I just paused it and removed the mini for a pic. It goes red when hooked up to usb, and green when playing.


----------



## amb

dude_500, check your solder joints at U2D pin 14 and 15, as well as all pins of U8D. Make sure you have the correct chip installed for U8D. The marking should say "A02_x_" (x is irrelevant).


----------



## MiRaCL

The TOTX147PLFT-ND optical-reciever is hard to come by. Can is use another toslink optical-reciever which have the same pin number and is for board mount?

 This one: https://www1.elfa.se/data1/wwwroot/w...A/07536568.pdf


----------



## amb

No. TORX179 needs a 5V supply (minimum 4.75V) while the correct TORX147PL/FT is 3.3V.

 Where are you located? The correct part is available from Digikey and Arrow in the US, and from Farnell in Europe/UK/Australia/Asia, etc.


----------



## Bismar

Just to confirm, the dac automatically switches to an external 5v source in preference to the USB 5v rail when plugged in yeah?


----------



## ruZZ.il

yeah


----------



## MiRaCL

Im located i norway.

 Digikey is to expensivie to buy from, atleast when it's just one part.
 Farnell wont sell to private customers here in norway, the only sell to companies


----------



## amb

MiRaCL, others seem to have no trouble buying from Farnell... maybe you could share an order with them in Europe.


----------



## rhys h

Does anyone have a spare NKK G13JVCF bicolor switch, or is anyone buying anything from RS uk?


----------



## MASantos

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MiRaCL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Im located i norway.

 Digikey is to expensivie to buy from, atleast when it's just one part.
 Farnell wont sell to private customers here in norway, the only sell to companies 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm ordering from RS Electronics this week. RS Electronics - industrial electronic components distributor

 if they have what you need let me know and I can order it for you.

 Manuel


----------



## rjkdivin

I finished up my set of Gamma One DACs. All are working perfectly. I posted earlier regarding using only a flux pen and the PCB tinning to solder the ICs......it works very well where the tinning is thick and results in a very clean job, but you must check each pin for electrical continuity and for mechanical rigidity because a small percentage of pins do not flow properly. I use a microscope for the soldering and checking of the ICs. These are wonderful little DACs. Thanks AMB!


----------



## amb

Just a minor heads up... Digikey is currently out of stock of the TORX147PL/FT fiber optic receiver module. I called them today and they said that they expect to restock by Jan 27.


----------



## rjad

I just finished my gamma 1 dac, I think it is great, the design is so compact, the board so nicely done, I'm impressed. It sounds great too. 

 Now, I have a Mini3 to go with it, but somehow when I bought the case for the mini3, I managed to get something with only one metal end, so my mini3 has a metal front and a plastic back. To make the set look good together, perhaps someone who bought the custom front panels for either the gamma or the mini has a spare plain end they could send me?


----------



## m1abrams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rjad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just finished my gamma 1 dac, I think it is great, the design is so compact, the board so nicely done, I'm impressed. It sounds great too. 

 Now, I have a Mini3 to go with it, but somehow when I bought the case for the mini3, I managed to get something with only one metal end, so my mini3 has a metal front and a plastic back. To make the set look good together, perhaps someone who bought the custom front panels for either the gamma or the mini has a spare plain end they could send me?_

 

PM sent.


----------



## grendel23

I had the PCM2707 on the USB board of my Gamma 1 die today.
 I fired up my computer and got "USB device not recognized". I swapped USB cable, checked 5V and 3.3V rails and looked the board over carefully with a loupe, but all checked out fine.
 I had a spare PCM2707, so I swapped it out and now it works great.
 I guess anything can fail. I am just glad the one part I had a spare of is the one that died.


----------



## amb

grendel23, are you sure the original PCM2707 actually died? Maybe there was a marginal solder joint. The act of replacing the chip, most likely "fixed" it...


----------



## Bismar

Got a question, will there be much wear and tear leaving power on to the y1 DAC 24/7 ?


----------



## grendel23

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_grendel23, are you sure the original PCM2707 actually died? Maybe there was a marginal solder joint. The act of replacing the chip, most likely "fixed" it..._

 

That was my first thought, so I checked it carefully.
 I had a nice fillet of solder on each pin. I also took a dental pick and checked under an 8X loupe that each pin was solidly soldered down. As far as I can tell, solder was OK. If I had thought of it, I would have re-flowed the solder before replacing chip.
 Anything is possible, but I am reasonably sure chip died from unknown causes.


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bismar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got a question, will there be much wear and tear leaving power on to the y1 DAC 24/7 ?_

 

No more so than any other electronic device. It is arguable that leaving it powered up is actually _better_ for longevity, because every time it's turned off and on, some parts go through a power surge and thermal cycle which may age them more than continuous power.


----------



## patton713MW

I am about to order the parts for a full build through Mouser, though I just discovered that they don't carry the TORX147PL. Are there any substitutions, or will I have to order that one part from another company? I am trying to keep shipping costs to a minimum.


----------



## mezzman

Digikey has the part. I ended up getting all parts from them instead of Mouser.


----------



## patton713MW

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mezzman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Digikey has the part. I ended up getting all parts from them instead of Mouser._

 

I am also ordering the parts for a Millett Hybrid MiniMAX, which are best sourced from Mouser. Hmm... I guess I'll have to fork over the extra shipping for the receiver on Digikey.


----------



## slowpogo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *patton713MW* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am also ordering the parts for a Millett Hybrid MiniMAX, which are best sourced from Mouser. Hmm... I guess I'll have to fork over the extra shipping for the receiver on Digikey._

 

Don't worry, with Digikey you can choose 1st class mail for like $2


----------



## MiRaCL

Hello

 The parts for my Gamma is starting to show up in my mailbox. Thnx to amb for fast shipping 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Im wondering about the easies way to solder the smd parts. I've built a mini3 allready and the smd parts there was easy to solder. But the big smd on the usb board worries me. Any suggestions would be appreaciated


----------



## Possede

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MiRaCL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello

 The parts for my Gamma is starting to show up in my mailbox. Thnx to amb for fast shipping 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Im wondering about the easies way to solder the smd parts. I've built a mini3 allready and the smd parts there was easy to solder. But the big smd on the usb board worries me. Any suggestions would be appreaciated 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Flux is your friend. If you've done the Mini^3, you should have no problem doing the y1. Just following the instructions carefully and you should be fine. From completing the y1 project, I actually prefer doing SMD soldering than through-hole. It's just a lot easier and looks a lot cleaner.


----------



## MisterX

From the Gamma 1 instructions page: 

  Quote:


 If you're new at soldering surface-mount devices, please view the SMD Soldering 101 video from Curious Inventor, an excellent tutorial.


----------



## rhys h

Does anyone have a Farnel BOM of any kind? I am having trouble using AMB's table with duplicate model numbers


----------



## Possede

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhys h* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone have a Farnel BOM of any kind? I am having trouble using AMB's table with duplicate model numbers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hello, I'm not sure. But is this what you're looking for?


----------



## rhys h

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Possédé* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello, I'm not sure. But is this what you're looking for?_

 

Spot on


----------



## rhys h

How on earth do you downoad the thing? I have signed up now it wants me to sign up again...


----------



## rhys h

Okay, for all you british people! A fully blown y1 is going to cost around £110, including panels from AMB.


----------



## Jrossel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *m11a1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yea I saw that, I suppose I can do it that way. I was hoping Glass Jar or hobodiy carried it._

 

Sorry, I can not supply kits for this DAC. I would love to supply them, but Glass Jar Audio will "sit this one out".
 I will hopefully be a part of a future high end DAC project.


----------



## Deleted

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grendel23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had the PCM2707 on the USB board of my Gamma 1 die today.
 I fired up my computer and got "USB device not recognized". I swapped USB cable, checked 5V and 3.3V rails and looked the board over carefully with a loupe, but all checked out fine.
 I had a spare PCM2707, so I swapped it out and now it works great.
 I guess anything can fail. I am just glad the one part I had a spare of is the one that died._

 

I have a similar problem. I get the "USB Device not recognized" message. The 3.3V pad gets exactly 3.3V while the 5V pads both get 4.9V. I reflowed the PCM2707 along with U2U and U3U, and the pins show at most 0.6ohms between the pin and the pad. I jumpered VCC and VBUS like it said in the inital checks. Does this mean my PCM2707 is dead? Thanks.


----------



## ntrl

Hello All!

 I want Gamma-1, but in forums missing anybody compares
 his with other DACs and soundcards (like EMU1212 etc). On Amb's site frame "specification" on under construction. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 People who build this dac, please wrote here your emotions and compares 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks.


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Deleted* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a similar problem. I get the "USB Device not recognized" message. The 3.3V pad gets exactly 3.3V while the 5V pads both get 4.9V. I reflowed the PCM2707 along with U2U and U3U, and the pins show at most 0.6ohms between the pin and the pad. I jumpered VCC and VBUS like it said in the inital checks. Does this mean my PCM2707 is dead? Thanks._

 

Make sure you have the correct chip installed for U2U. What does the marking on it say?


----------



## qusp

hi there guys; been a while since I dropped in here. My gamma1 kit (full build) has been sitting around waiting for me to decide what to do with it. I have decided on a larger hammond 1455.....201 (cant remember the middle. so i've decided to add battery power if I can. Wondering what the best way to implement this is. the idea being that I could use it with an iRiver via optical similar to EFN's, so i'm excited what it should sound like with my lisa. In this situation of course so no usb power would be supplied. unless I tap into the same USB circuit and supply exactly 5v with the right resistor value and battery combo?? would this be a viable option? or would I then have auto sensing issues to contend with, or is that just on the audio inputs?. I assume I can use the DC power supply also. Been wondering what else I could do with the touch extra space too. obviously that means I can use a nicer RCA,, and caps?? hehe anyone else put one of these in another case yet?? roll call!!

 ....anyone??

 I appologize for my continuing noobness with some of this stuff, I ordered some books last week to get me on the right track, but i've had so little time of late that I havent even had the time to get this littly baby running. a whole new world of portable rigs is starting to open up; cant wait
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








 thanks


----------



## linuxworks

I 'embedded' a gamma1 into an existing amp/preamp box.

 for me, one key was to ignore the usb board and use only the spdif/dac board. for the cost of 1 jewelbox CD you can get a usb-spdif dongle and so having that take up a full board, imho, isn't the best use of internal space. I can easily get usb to convert to spdif outside the box with, say, a turtle beach cmedia dongle like this:










 that does bit perfect output up to 48k, just like the PCM chip does.

 and so by having that part outside my box, I get to 'eliminate' one board and that can make mounting the receiver/dac gamma1 board a lot easier.

 of course, when you remove usb, you now have to solve the +5v power issue on your own 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the cirrus receiver chip does (I would guess) as good as job as dejittering as the PCM TI chip would. so I opted to build my 'embedded' gamma1 without that PCM board.

 an early photo of a one attempt at embedding the gamma1 (and pimeta) into a preamp 1U box:






 living with 'just' the receiver/dac board was just fine with me


----------



## rhys h

My parts are on the way from farnell, is there any audiable diffrence using USB, rather then using my motherboards optical out ?


----------



## ruZZ.il

I had a hard time telling the difference.. in fact, I couldn't. Maybe if I were using a more revealing system at the time, but I was satisfied with what I was using.. for now


----------



## rhys h

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ruZZ.il* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had a hard time telling the difference.. in fact, I couldn't. Maybe if I were using a more revealing system at the time, but I was satisfied with what I was using.. for now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

What did you end up using? USB?


----------



## royewest

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...so i've decided to add battery power if I can..._

 

Hi qusp,

 I explored this for a while and ended up with a 6-pack of NiMH AAs connected to the 5V version of one of these: 

NewClassD UWB Regulator

 I put the regulator on a tiny heatsink and stuffed it in an mint tin and soldered connectors to it so I can snap it all together in different ways (I also had in mind powering it from a 12V car cigarette lighter plug -- but quickly found driving with headphones and hi-def audio hilariously irresponsible and stopped).

 It works great -- I'm off the grid with a RockBoxed iRiver containing lossless audio sending bit-perfect data > optical cable > Gamma1 > Mini3 > headphone of choice. I need to carry around a small camera bag for all of it, but no laptop, which was the goal.

 There are doubtless more elegant Li battery solutions that stuff a much smaller battery pack and the reg board and maybe even the DAC into a single container -- I almost went down that route but decided not to spend the $ on the batteries and charger. Let me know if you want some pointers on where I got exploring that, with help from the kids at work who use Li power for remote-control airplanes.

 I'll try post a picture later.

 I'd also enjoy trading info with others on this kind of project -- perhaps in a new thread...

 __Roy


----------



## linuxworks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ruZZ.il* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had a hard time telling the difference.. in fact, I couldn't. Maybe if I were using a more revealing system at the time, but I was satisfied with what I was using.. for now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

its my understanding that both 'receivers' do a fine job (fine enough) on getting clock and data from the stream that it doesn't matter if you 'come in' via spdif or via the usb path.

 usb goes to a burr brown pcm chip then an i2s stream is created and sent to the dac.

 if you go via spdif, the burr brown chip is not used and a crystal/cirrus chip is used. it does basically the same functional thing and creates an i2s that is sent to the dac.

 I don't really think the dac 'cares' and it generates the same output regardless of WHO creates the i2s stream.

 that's my thinking.


----------



## linuxworks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *royewest* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi qusp,

 I explored this for a while and ended up with a 6-pack of NiMH AAs connected to the 5V version of one of these: 

NewClassD UWB Regulator_

 

that looks like a great product.

 but the price - what a shocker. way too much, I think. looks good on paper, though.


----------



## royewest

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *linuxworks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_that looks like a great product.

 but the price - what a shocker. way too much, I think. looks good on paper, though._

 

I agree they are expensive, but for me it was the missing link in a rig that cost probably 10x the cost of that board.

 I'd welcome a pointer to a cheaper alternative with anything like those specs in that approximate size; remember that I had thought I'd be trying to get clean power from a car with it, too, which provides terrible DC. I don't have the skills to design one myself.


----------



## srserl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *linuxworks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can easily get usb to convert to spdif outside the box with, say, a turtle beach cmedia dongle_

 

Or you could have built a portable usb to spdif converter using the left over usb board. It might have cost more, but also might have been higher quality and offered both coax and optical.


----------



## Deleted

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Make sure you have the correct chip installed for U2U. What does the marking on it say?_

 

It says A08G.

 /edit: I also tried another USB cable and tried it on Vista laptop and a Windows XP laptop. Still says USB device not recognized.


----------



## linuxworks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *srserl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Or you could have built a portable usb to spdif converter using the left over usb board. It might have cost more, but also might have been higher quality and offered both coax and optical._

 

I do plan to use my leftover board for that.

 but its really hard to beat the size of that turtle beach thing. for my money, usb to spdif is commodity, at this point, and not really 'hard' anymore. the cmedia chip does its job well enough.

 I'm thinking of taking that usb board half and not only getting spdif-outs from it but also analog-outs. the pcm chip DOES do audio-out just like it can do i2s out. its just that the analog-outs are left dangling and that seems wasteful to me


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* 
_I have decided on a larger hammond 1455.....201 (cant remember the middle. so i've decided to add battery power if I can. Wondering what the best way to implement this is.
 ..._

 

The Hammond 1455C1201 won't give you enough extra space to implement a good battery-power solution. The current consumption of the γ1 full configuration could be as high as ~90mA, so you'll need fairly substantial battery mAH to have usable run-time. It also needs 5V with a fairly tight tolerance, and no battery is going to give you that unless you use at least four or five NiMH cells and add additional voltage regulation (no, a resistor won't cut it). In addition, γ1's connectors and switches are PCB-mount and are designed for the 1455C801 case. If you use a longer case, you'd have to change to panel-mount pieces on one end. The front panel has only a switch and a jack, so it's less items to air-wire, but the NKK illuminated switch is not panel-mountable, so you'd have to use a different switch and a dual-color LED instead. Similarly, you'd have to change to a panel-mount output jack. Since they are off-board, they will eat up internal space in the case, so there will be little left for your batteries and voltage regulator.

 A much better battery-power solution would be to buy or build an external rechargeable battery pack that puts out 5V, and plug it into γ1's DC power jack. There are commercial battery packs, designed for portable media players and cell phones, that would work.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Deleted* 
_It says A08G.
 /edit: I also tried another USB cable and tried it on Vista laptop and a Windows XP laptop. Still says USB device not recognized._

 

OK, it's the correct chip. Looks like you've eliminated the cable as a possible problem, or the computer, and the supply voltages measured fine. So, if you're absolutely sure the solder joints are all ok elsewhere, then the only remaining culprit might be a bad U1U or U2U.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *linuxworks* 
_I'm thinking of taking that usb board half and not only getting spdif-outs from it but also analog-outs. the pcm chip DOES do audio-out just like it can do i2s out. its just that the analog-outs are left dangling and that seems wasteful to me._

 

Yes, the PCM2707 has an onboard DAC that we're not using. It is inferior to the WM8501, but if you want to use it, not only must you connect the VOUTL and VOUTR pins to an output jack, you'll also need to provide analog supply voltage to the VCCL and VCCR pins, and add a decoupling cap from the VCOM pin to PGND (See the PCM2707 datasheet for details). Given the close pin-spacing and small PCB pads, this will be messy.


----------



## linuxworks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, the PCM2707 has an onboard DAC that we're not using. It is inferior to the WM8501, but if you want to use it, not only must you connect the VOUTL and VOUTR pins to an output jack, you'll also need to provide analog supply voltage to the VCCL and VCCR pins, and add a decoupling cap from the VCOM pin to PGND (See the PCM2707 datasheet for details). Given the close pin-spacing and small PCB pads, this will be messy._

 

hmm - I think this is a ploy to get me to TRY to connect to it (LOL!)

 I didn't realize how much was missing to get analog 'working' but I'm still a little curious how much of a dac-in-stein (lol) it would end up being. do you have any photos of protos that you might have tried like this?

 the pcm chip on the bantam sounds 'ok' to me and I'm curious if they both are really the same internal engine (I am guessing so) on the analog side, this pcm and the bantam pcm.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *royewest* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi qusp,

 I explored this for a while and ended up with a 6-pack of NiMH AAs connected to the 5V version of one of these: 

NewClassD UWB Regulator

 I put the regulator on a tiny heatsink and stuffed it in an mint tin and soldered connectors to it so I can snap it all together in different ways (I also had in mind powering it from a 12V car cigarette lighter plug -- but quickly found driving with headphones and hi-def audio hilariously irresponsible and stopped).

 It works great -- I'm off the grid with a RockBoxed iRiver containing lossless audio sending bit-perfect data > optical cable > Gamma1 > Mini3 > headphone of choice. I need to carry around a small camera bag for all of it, but no laptop, which was the goal.

 There are doubtless more elegant Li battery solutions that stuff a much smaller battery pack and the reg board and maybe even the DAC into a single container -- I almost went down that route but decided not to spend the $ on the batteries and charger. Let me know if you want some pointers on where I got exploring that, with help from the kids at work who use Li power for remote-control airplanes.

 I'll try post a picture later.

 I'd also enjoy trading info with others on this kind of project -- perhaps in a new thread...

 __Roy_

 

wow thanks for the great info Roy will look into all that. was going to try to incorporate it all into the one box actually I got the number wrong its the 546-1457C1801BK (mouser cat #) so I think there should be enough space for 4 lithion, just. so yeah that extra info on batt packs would be great. I already have the full build, so i'll utilize the second board as well. I think a new thread for 
 avant-garde digital portable rigs would be a great idea. I think it will start to catch on soon enough. I cant think of a better way to get HQ audio on the move with tech ion its current state. I've explored the VCAP angle and it sounds great, but I had been thinking about all this for a while and thats kind-of why I got the gamma1 in the first place; seeing EFN's rig gave me more incentive. now I just need to learn how to DIY my own optical cables LOL or use a coax to I2S dongle to get even higher def on the move through rockbox. as I understand it the optical is limited to 48khz is that right?? Coax can utilize the full bandwidth.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* 
_The Hammond 1455C1201 won't give you enough extra space to implement a good battery-power solution. The current consumption of the γ1 full configuration could be as high as ~90mA, so you'll need fairly substantial battery mAH to have usable run-time. It also needs 5V with a fairly tight tolerance, and no battery is going to give you that unless you use at least four or five NiMH cells and add additional voltage regulation (no, a resistor won't cut it). In addition, γ1's connectors and switches are PCB-mount and are designed for the 1455C801 case. If you use a longer case, you'd have to change to panel-mount pieces on one end. The front panel has only a switch and a jack, so it's less items to air-wire, but the NKK illuminated switch is not panel-mountable, so you'd have to use a different switch and a dual-color LED instead. Similarly, you'd have to change to a panel-mount output jack. Since they are off-board, they will eat up internal space in the case, so there will be little left for your batteries and voltage regulator.

 A much better battery-power solution would be to buy or build an external rechargeable battery pack that puts out 5V, and plug it into γ1's DC power jack. There are commercial battery packs, designed for portable media players and cell phones, that would work._

 

yeah the battery pack was another idea and I would even go as far as to adapt and install uncased in a hammond with the dac. if its small enough, so i've got an integrated charge circuit. any recommendations on suitable reg chips for this purpose if I do it myself rather than uncasing one. might be just simpler to uncase one?? I can go up to the 1457...201 if needed; I have one spare and it will be placed on top of a lisa in this rig, so a larger box is actually more of a bonus than a failing. I realize i'm going to have to be airwiring stuff, but was planning on doing that for the RCA and mini anyway since i'm using a switchcraft panel mount mini socket and an eichmann RCA female panel mount socket. so it will be a mix of airwiring and board mounting on one end as you say. was thinking of whether I could find a hammond that is the same width as the default case is long and doing all board mount bar the RCA (I have heaps of eichmann RCA around so I want to use them if I can) but do it on the sides and place only the RCA and mini on the end airwired maybe even the optical to help with low profile I guess I could extend the length with some perfboard if needed.

 thanks for your help guys; really appreciate it


----------



## rhys h

Does anyone have any spare 4.5v regulators? Cant get hold of them here for another 5 weeks...


----------



## royewest

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...so yeah that extra info on batt packs would be great...._

 

I'll hijack this thread once more to point you to batteryspace.com as an interesting online store for late-model and flexible batteries and chargers. I was tempted by

LiFePO4 Li-Ion Module: 9V 2700 mAh (Triangle Shape, 24.3Wh, 8A rate) Prewired with polyswitch - LFP-3T9V27Ah

 but that plus the required charger started to add up to too much for the project I was on (in spite of what I paid for the regulator, heh). Let me know what else you discover about using batteries to power your Gamma-1.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *royewest* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll hijack this thread once more to point you to batteryspace.com as an interesting online store for late-model and flexible batteries and chargers. I was tempted by

LiFePO4 Li-Ion Module: 9V 2700 mAh (Triangle Shape, 24.3Wh, 8A rate) Prewired with polyswitch - LFP-3T9V27Ah

 but that plus the required charger started to add up to too much for the project I was on (in spite of what I paid for the regulator, heh). Let me know what else you discover about using batteries to power your Gamma-1._

 

thanks will do
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it'll be a slow and steady thing more than likely. should have the rig finished in the next month


----------



## Beefy

I'm now two from two for successful y1 builds 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	














 One thing I need to ask though...... how are people finding the fit in the case? On both of my builds it had been VERY tight to get the boards in, and even harder to get them out. The 'height' of the pins/sockets between the boards seems to be just a tiny bit too much for it to slide easily.

 I'm wondering whether I should have shortened the pins? Or whether it is supposed to be this tight?


----------



## MisterX

Sometimes you have to cut a little off the tops of the pins to get a good fit, sometimes you don't.


----------



## fordgtlover

^
 I snipped the very end of the points off the pins on the USB board. The boards now slide easily in and out of the case. I probably only took 1 or maybe 2mm.


----------



## Bismar

I didn't like how the taller pins were giving it a bad fit, so i used the shorter ones. 

 Works perfectly fine and fits easily into the case.


----------



## ShinyFalcon

I have some questions...

 Solder won't matter, will it? I have some Cardas Quad Eutectic, and I only used it in interconnects and headphone recabling.

 And, is it okay to leave the optical in module unpopulated? I plan on putting it in later, but I don't want to order from Digikey yet, just in case I end up missing some parts from my Mouser order. Depending on the answer to my first solder question, I'll buy the Kester from Digikey as well.


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ShinyFalcon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Solder won't matter, will it? I have some Cardas Quad Eutectic, and I only used it in interconnects and headphone recabling._

 

I have not used the Cardas solder, but I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work.

  Quote:


 And, is it okay to leave the optical in module unpopulated? I plan on putting it in later, but I don't want to order from Digikey yet, just in case I end up missing some parts from my Mouser order. Depending on the answer to my first solder question, I'll buy the Kester from Digikey as well. 
 

It should be fine.


----------



## amb

Sorry about the delay, but the "Specifications" section of the γ1 website is now up, with various test results. Enjoy.


----------



## MiRaCL

Cool, just finished my y1 and i it works 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This is just great.
 Wasn't a hard build, but im glad i invested in a flux pen.
 Still, this must be the most difficult thing i've built so far. The small size and so many parts.

 Wondering if im the first one in Norway with one of these.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Amb: The front and rear panels you sell, do you make theese yourself?
 The set i got for the y1 isn't the most pretty i've seen. The front of the panels are nice, but the sides are not so nice. Ruffly milled it seems. Maybe it's just the set i got?


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MiRaCL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Amb: The front and rear panels you sell, do you make theese yourself?
 The set i got for the y1 isn't the most pretty i've seen. The front of the panels are nice, but the sides are not so nice. Ruffly milled it seems. Maybe it's just the set i got?_

 

They are made by Front Panel Express. The edges get some clamp and milling blade marks. You can correct it very simply by using a flat, fine metal file or sandpaper on a flat surface.


----------



## rhys h

My build is on its way, i have actually fallen in love with soldering big SMD chips! I just hate those little ba*$%!d 5 leg voltage regs! Had to take a couple of mm off the interconnect pins to fit nicely, but after that no problems.


----------



## ShinyFalcon

Heh those regulators scare me too. I bought 2x the needed amount for the regs (4x 3v and 2x 4.75v?). I feel that they were damaged when I played around with my BantamDAC... ooh if the ones with my gamma1 works I can replace them on my BantamDAC... fabulous!

 A question though, is pin 1 the voltage in, 5 voltage out, and 2 ground? The schematics for the BantamDAC and the data sheet were off, so I'm not sure which is correct.

  Code:


```
[left]5 4 1 2 3[/left]
```

I was expecting the parts to be slightly bigger, but the resistors are damn small! They look cute though, and unusually flexible. Can't wait to build it, and hope it works well!

 Edit: Changed my arbitrary pin numbers


----------



## MisterX

Quote:


 A question though, is pin 1 the voltage out, 3 voltage in, and 4 ground? 
 

http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tps79301.pdf


----------



## ShinyFalcon

While I was trying to break the part for J4D/J5D (with my bare hands >.<), I managed to break it into 5.25 and 2.75 pieces. The 3P has a pin that I can't keep on, and the 5P is still usable. I don't think it will pose a great problem for me, because I think I'll use the broken pin on 3P as the ground pin. I think if I manage to solder it on the board then I don't see a problem. I should still be fine, right?


----------



## rhys h

Just check with your multimeter there is a good connection. It should be fine.


----------



## Deleted

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK, it's the correct chip. Looks like you've eliminated the cable as a possible problem, or the computer, and the supply voltages measured fine. So, if you're absolutely sure the solder joints are all ok elsewhere, then the only remaining culprit might be a bad U1U or U2U._

 

I just replaced the PCM2707. I doubled checked everything - no cold joints (0.6 ohms or less for all the pins) and no solder bridges. The test points read 3.2V, 4.9V, and 4.9V. I still get the "USB device not recognized" message. I guess I will order another U2U next. Is there any other part that might potentially cause this problem? Just so that I can order it with the U2U and save on shipping. It feels like I am going to end up replacing every part on this board! 

 I'm feeling pretty discouraged right now, and I'm wondering if I should just start over with a brand new board. My mini3 build went very smoothly - I have no idea why this one is giving me so much trouble!


----------



## amb

Deleted, there aren't many things that could prevent the computer from recognizing the DAC, if the supply voltages are correct. These are:

 1. Bad solder joint(s) or solder bridge(s) on any component, including connectors
 2. Mis-mounted U1U or U2U (check chip orientation)
 3. Damaged U1U or U2U
 4. Wrong U2U chip
 5. Wrong value resistors or caps installed
 6. Wrong crystal oscillator X1U
 7. USB cable problem
 8. Computer USB port problem

 You could probably rule out several of these, but it never hurts to double-check.


----------



## ShinyFalcon

For Q1D/Q2D and U4D/U9D, are the three pins supposed to have a triangular formation? The ones I have all line up to each other, and I have to bend the center pin outward to make it fit the PCB, and it doesn't sit flat with the surface.

 Edit: Just came to me, maybe there wasn't enough space, and soldering would've been a real pain, so it had to be spaced out a bit. I hate it when I answer my own questions...


----------



## amb

ShinyFalcon, you need to bend the center lead to fit the board. The part won't go all the way down to board surface (nor should you try to force it down). See the pics on the front page of the γ1 website.


----------



## ShinyFalcon

Success! Passed all initial checks and is currently playing music! So far everything seems to be operating as intended, but I'm getting cuts on the right channel. I'll check if it's my interconnect or just the weird position my setup is on...


----------



## wiatrob

amb or MisterX - 

 Finally getting around to cooking up my y1 - been a while since I soldered SM, so I picked an easy chip to start with - not noticing that it was U4U - I'm doing a Full Config. Do I need to remove it or can it live there? 

 Very nice layout, BTW...


----------



## ShinyFalcon

Did you solder the DAC to the USB board or U4U to the DAC board? I would say you need to remove it, if it's the former, that chip is an important chip for the DAC board.

 Edit: Try not to do anything else, I would imagine it being a huge pain to desolder and would have an impact on your sanity. If I were in this situation I would just buy a new board and chip.


----------



## wiatrob

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ShinyFalcon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you solder the DAC to the USB board or U4U to the DAC board? I would say you need to remove it, if it's the former, that chip is an important chip for the DAC board.

 Edit: Try not to do anything else, I would imagine it being a huge pain to desolder and would have an impact on your sanity. If I were in this situation I would just buy a new board and chip._

 


 Or I just bust out my hot air rework station? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't have anything soldered in the wrong place (yet!) . I soldered u4u into it's place on the USB board, which I don't technically need, as it's for the usb -> s/pdif converter configuration..


----------



## MisterX

I don't see any reason why you can't leave it......


----------



## ShinyFalcon

Yeah if you leave it in there it won't really get in the way, since directly underneath/above it will be the Wolfson DAC. It just bothers me that you won't really use that chip unless you want to build a second γ1.

 I just realized that Window's volume is set at 1/2... at full power it's a lot louder than my amp's DAC (Lyrix Pro USB w/ PCM2704). Now small changes to the volume knob has a huge difference in volume!


----------



## ShinyFalcon

Here's a problem that I ran into. Sometimes foobar2000 (using ASIO4ALL) will stop at some point during a song. Just a hard silence, and the switch stays green when this happens. If I click near the point where it froze, or play/change songs, playback will resume as if nothing happened. Any ideas as to where to look? It hasn't occurred until just now. Behavior seems random.


----------



## wiatrob

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MisterX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't see any reason why you can't leave it......_

 

Another y1 lives. 

 My voltages were all perfect, I couldn't get the swicth light to turn green (and consequently produce sound). Quick check and reflow of the big SM chips, still no love. 

 second reflow of the DAC and 2707, and I cut the HCu04 off, ahhh...satisfaction!

 I was really proud of my SM soldering and checking, but you can never be too careful!






 Thanks again Ti and Marshall!


----------



## ShinyFalcon

That's great to hear! It's an impressive feat for me too. The smallest one was very similar to the PCM2702 I attempted to solder, but I finished it in less than thirty seconds!

 Anyways, to go further into my problem, my desk lamp is causing the DAC to have problems.

 Desktop -> USB -> y1 -> Lyrix (USB bus powered); no problems so far.

 But, since I wanted my Lyrix to be powered by wallwart, I did just that. If I turn off my lamp it seems to cause problems with the Lyrix, and I think the y1 received a disturbance from that:

 Desklamp power cut -> Surge strip -> wallwart -> Lyrix -> interconnect -> y1

 I guess the wallwart for my Lyrix is unregulated? Or I'm thinking my surge strip/dorm AC is not very good... it's an 80 year old building after all. What options are there for me? A UPS or power conditioner?


----------



## wiatrob

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ShinyFalcon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I guess the wallwart for my Lyrix is unregulated? Or I'm thinking my surge strip/dorm AC is not very good... it's an 80 year old building after all. What options are there for me? A UPS or power conditioner?_

 


 You may just have power that's bad enough to cause the regs to drop out.

 You might meter the mains but it's _DANGEROUS_! I have really poor power at work - 113V sometimes. Causes all sorts of issues.


----------



## rhys h

Finished Half the y1 tonight. (Been over the soldering iron doing various things for 6 and a half hours!) So i decided i would get the USB board working. It works! Im rather amused with myself now...


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhys h* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So i decided i would get the USB board working. It works! Im rather amused with myself now..._

 

I did that too with the USB board. Got half way through doing both together, then got impatient 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 *

 On another note, my second y1 is entertaining a lot less action on the for sale forums than I thought it would. I'm selling it at what I thought was a bloody good price too. I suspect that there is still a lot of ignorance in the community as to how awesome these little babies are


----------



## rhys h

I have lost the screws for one of the panels now. Does anyone have the screws that came with the hammond, if they used a 3rd party screw?

 R


----------



## MisterX

I have a couple hundred extra Hammond screws but you live way across the ocean....


----------



## wiatrob

Has anyone commented on how good this sounds sans amp? Drives my YH-3 orthos well...Could be my new all in one work solution! Well, if it had a tube...


----------



## theory_87

MisterX, PM you earlier on.


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wiatrob* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone commented on how good this sounds sans amp? Drives my YH-3 orthos well...Could be my new all in one work solution! Well, if it had a tube... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The YH-3 has an impedance of 150 ohms. While the WM8501 DAC chip has no trouble with this kind of load, the default γ1 output coupling capacitors' value (23uF) will form a high-pass filter with this load having an fc of 46Hz. With the right program material (and assuming that the headphones actually have usable response below 50Hz) you'll probably hear some loss of super-low-end bass.

 γ1 wasn't designed to be a headphone amp. Even though it could drive low impedance loads better than most other DACs out there (notwithstanding the high-pass filter issue), it would still sound better when used with a proper headphone amp. If you use γ1 with a computer via its USB input and Windows, run with ASIO4ALL and a player program that supports it (i.e., foobar2000), so that it bypasses the Windows Kmixer for bit-perfect data stream. Use your headphone amp's volume control instead of any software volume control for best results.

 If you must use the γ1 to drive headphones directly, I recommend 300 ohms or higher headphones. But such headphones tend to need more voltage swing than the γ1 could deliver, so an amp with gain would still be desirable.


----------



## rhys h

Finished this little thing just now, plugged it straight in, all i can say is a bloody well done to AMB and MisterX!!!!!


----------



## rhys h

After having a listen, the y1 seems to be quite bass light compared to my other dac, i was wondering if there is anything i can do to improve this?


----------



## UglyJoe

rhys, what amp are you driving your phones with, particularly, what is the input impedance on that amp? What value coupling capacitors did you use on the y1?

 Also, are there any caps in the signal path of your amplifier?

 If it's not a high pass filter lowering the gain in the bass frequencies, then my bet is your other dac is either bass heavy or treble light. The y1's frequency response is pretty flat, as you can see on the y1's website (0.8Hz - 48.0KHz, +0.2dB, -3.0dB, 96KHz sampling frequency). See the specs section on AMB's site for a graph of the frequency response at various sampling frequencies.


----------



## rhys h

Fixed it, winamp equaliser had set itself to treble boost.


----------



## adamus

use asio plug in for winamp.


----------



## UglyJoe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhys h* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Fixed it, winamp equaliser had set itself to treble boost. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well, there's that too...


----------



## yyz

First off, a big THANK YOU for everyone involved in this project! You guys do great work!

 I have finished my full-build y1, but have a question. 

 USB works perfectly. COAX and optical work perfectly out of my DVD player. I am using a first-generation XBOX as a media player, and cannot for the life of me figure out why I can't get the y1 to work with it.

 I have the XBOX set for 2-channel PCM, no Dolby and no DTS enabled (my receiver confirms this). I verified that the cable is good by using it on another component. I know the optical out on the xbox is good because it will connect to my receiver. 

 The XBOX converts 2 channel audio to 48 kHz, but according to the specs, the y1 will handle audio up to 96 kHz through SPDIF, correct? Or am I wrong? 

 Any ideas as to what I could be missing? Thanks in advance!


----------



## rhys h

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yyz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_First off, a big THANK YOU for everyone involved in this project! You guys do great work!

 I have finished my full-build y1, but have a question. 

 USB works perfectly. COAX and optical work perfectly out of my DVD player. I am using a first-generation XBOX as a media player, and cannot for the life of me figure out why I can't get the y1 to work with it.

 I have the XBOX set for 2-channel PCM, no Dolby and no DTS enabled (my receiver confirms this). I verified that the cable is good by using it on another component. I know the optical out on the xbox is good because it will connect to my receiver. 

 The XBOX converts 2 channel audio to 48 kHz, but according to the specs, the y1 will handle audio up to 96 kHz through SPDIF, correct? Or am I wrong? 

 Any ideas as to what I could be missing? Thanks in advance!_

 

What software are you running on your xbox? I cant get XBMC to work with the y1.


----------



## yyz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhys h* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What software are you running on your xbox? I cant get XBMC to work with the y1._

 

I'm running XBMC as well. 

 However, I'm not sure that it's a problem with XBMC because I can't even get the y1 to work while playing a CD or mp3 using the XBOX dashboard either.


----------



## rhys h

I have tried the same, same result. Coax works fine.


----------



## yyz

Digital Coax? From the XBOX? 

 My HD cables only have an optical out, although I did modify it to add a digital coax out. Neither the optical or digital coax work with the y1 in my case.


----------



## rhys h

I am tapping spidif directly from the xbox motherboard, with a rca jack on the back of the xbox.


----------



## yyz

Interesting...

 I soldered a female coax plug onto the optical jack's circuit board on the cable plug. 

 Perhaps there is something weird about the cable connection at the back of the XBOX? 

 Is XBMC working with the coax connection for you?


----------



## rhys h

XBMC is working fine with the coax connection. There are a few ways to do it on the back of the xbox if i rerember correctly. The advanced A/V pack never did work for me.


----------



## yyz

It looks like it's time to open up the XBOX and add a coax plug to the back. Using the XBOX was my main reason for building the y1, and I was gutted when it wouldn't work. 

 Thanks for your help rhys h!

 p.s. The y1 sounds great, doesn't it?


----------



## rhys h

The Y1 is a great little DAC, a lot more then i was expecting. 

 XBMC will sometimes 'drop' the digital signal if left inactive for a while. I have found the best way to combat this by selecting USB and then back on the y1.


----------



## qusp

I hate regulators!!! not soldering them; that I can handle without issue, but putting them in place with tweezers. I didnt get any spares and one of the little buggers sprung off the table and onto the floor. I work downstairs and there is a concrete/dirt floor covered with little pebbles and bits of solder. I think I saw which vague directiob it went, but i've been looking for over an hour and no joy. all other regs are in place and i'm doing fine, but that little sucker bounced off before and I found it and then almost straight away it did it again. sux because I wont be able to finish until I make another bloody order for a reg chip; one bloody reg chip. I dont need anything else either, because I already stocked up on regular supplies with my last order from mouser.U6D is the one missing (thats a reg #isnt it?? writing from memory here. stuffs downstairs. pissed off, I was on a roll too


----------



## yyz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhys h* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_XBMC is working fine with the coax connection. There are a few ways to do it on the back of the xbox if i rerember correctly. The advanced A/V pack never did work for me._

 

Well, after adding a digital coax jack to the back of the XBOX last night, I still cannot get the y1 to work with the XBOX.

 Could a bad solder joint cause the y1 to not process one resolution of audio but accept another? The only thing that's different between the XBOX (which doesn't work) and my DVD player (which does work) is that the XBOX outputs 16 bit 48 kHz and the DVD player outputs 16 bit 44.1 kHz.


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yyz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Could a bad solder joint cause the y1 to not process one resolution of audio but accept another? The only thing that's different between the XBOX (which doesn't work) and my DVD player (which does work) is that the XBOX outputs 16 bit 48 kHz and the DVD player outputs 16 bit 44.1 kHz._

 

If it's a bad solder joint, it's not in the γ1. If you can get the same coax input to work at 16/44, then it should also work at other resolutions and sampling frequencies. Are you sure that the xbox puts out a standard S/PDIF audio data stream? Does it work with any other DAC?


----------



## linuxworks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I didnt get any spares and one of the little buggers sprung off the table and onto the floor. I work downstairs and there is a concrete/dirt floor covered with little pebbles and bits of solder. I think I saw which vague directiob it went, but i've been looking for over an hour and no joy._

 

I've had tiny parts drop on my carpet and had to spend much time trying to find it. a flashlight parallel to the ground sometimes throws enough shadow to find things.

 usually they land in strange places, not at all directly under where they should be. to find the right place, take an open-face sandwitch and let it drop to the floor. where it lands, your part is probably not far away (lol)


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *linuxworks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've had tiny parts drop on my carpet and had to spend much time trying to find it. a flashlight parallel to the ground sometimes throws enough shadow to find things.

 usually they land in strange places, not at all directly under where they should be. to find the right place, take an open-face sandwitch and let it drop to the floor. where it lands, your part is probably not far away (lol) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

still havent found it ;(. i'll have one more look later on and then I guess i'll have to bit the bullet. I was pushing down on it with tweezers to hold it in place while I pinned one corner down. and its little legs acted as ... errm... well.... little legs


----------



## yyz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If it's a bad solder joint, it's not in the γ1. If you can get the same coax input to work at 16/44, then it should also work at other resolutions and sampling frequencies. Are you sure that the xbox puts out a standard S/PDIF audio data stream? Does it work with any other DAC?_

 

From everything that I've read, the xbox outputs a 16 bit 48 kHz PCM stream from its optical out. This is confirmed by my receiver.

 I don't have another separate DAC, only the one in my receiver.


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yyz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From everything that I've read, the xbox outputs a 16 bit 48 kHz PCM stream from its optical out. This is confirmed by my receiver._

 

One would hope that the xbox's "PCM stream" is compliant to the S/PDIF (Sony/Philips Digital Interconnect Format, also AES3, IEC-60958, EIAJ CP1201) standard.


----------



## wiatrob

Amb and MisterX - Results of our DAC Shootout, including the y1 with some heavy hitters:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f45/co...ssions-409361/


----------



## MisterX

Looks like you guys had a blast.


----------



## wiatrob

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MisterX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looks like you guys had a blast. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

There was Pizza and Beer too! Wait till you see the pictures of the DAC shootout - the new Valentine's Day Massacre! 

 Thanks again for a very nice piece of DIY that competes with the middle-big boys.


----------



## Daveze

Quick question: Is there a way I can use two y1 to produce a pair of balanced signals? A fancy Winamp/Foobar plugin would be the ticket but I don't know of one. I imagine you can tweak one of the linux players would be capable but that rules it out as part of my work rig.


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Daveze* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Quick question: Is there a way I can use two y1 to produce a pair of balanced signals? A fancy Winamp/Foobar plugin would be the ticket but I don't know of one. I imagine you can tweak one of the linux players would be capable but that rules it out as part of my work rig._

 

To do that, you would need a way of making the software player produce two digital audio streams from a single stream (which are phase inverted from each other in the analog domain), and have them routed to separate audio interfaces (USB or S/PDIF) simultaneously. I don't know of any plugins that does that.


----------



## ShinyFalcon

My problem with the γ1 "freezing up" wasn't really answered back in post 436. wiatrob mentions the AC line being the problem. I have a refrigerator nearby that _I think_ seems to cause the problem as well, along with my lamp. I also noticed that sometimes my laptop would blank out and reappear, exactly the symptoms of removing the AC adapter. I wasn't paying attention so I couldn't correlate it to my refrigerator's cycles. So I'm guessing that it's causing the AC line to fluctuate in voltages? Why would it cause my DAC to have problems when the Lyrix is connected w/ I'm assuming an unregulated psu?

 This concerns me because I'll be building an amp that will be powered from a wallwart (TREAD PSU) as well. I'm hoping that a regulated supply for my amp will fix whatever I'm having trouble with. I think my phenomenon is a "brownout," but it still doesn't make sense to me, my desktop would've had problems too.

 Sorry if it looks like I'm spilling out lots of crud. This is actually pretty interesting to me...


----------



## linuxworks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To do that, you would need a way of making the software player produce two digital audio streams from a single stream (which are phase inverted from each other in the analog domain), and have them routed to separate audio interfaces (USB or S/PDIF) simultaneously. I don't know of any plugins that does that._

 

AND have the latency be zero so that both 'squirt out' at exactly precisely the same time.

 I don't even know if that's technically possible on a pc. at some point, you really DON'T have true concurrency. not at THAT level of timing.

 fwiw, I have an old camelot arthur (brand) dac that has an invert switch on it (in the digital domain). but I'm sure they did this in their software/firmware layer in the device (or there was an old dac chip they used, some 10+ yrs ago, that supported phase inversion at the digital level).


----------



## ruZZ.il

what level of timing? even a single core at a few GHz can relatively 'simultaneously' update a 96 or even 192 khz stream.. 

 someone (colin?) recently mentioned a transformer in balanced context..


----------



## linuxworks

transformers will balance in the analog domain, but obviously not digitally.

 as far as concurrency, if you think of the pci bus as not a pt-pt topology but SHARED ACCESS, then the idea of exact concurrency (of usb, pci and other 'slow' devices) can't be guaranteed.

 the only way I can see this happening is if you queue up request that have timestamps to devices 'in parallel' and then say 'run this at xyz time'. then if they are exactly sync'd they can burst out data at exactly the same time.

 but you want to coordinate two spdif streams? good luck. each runs asynch and will time skew, given enough play time. this is why you need a common clock if you run multichannel data.


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ShinyFalcon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My problem with the γ1 "freezing up" wasn't really answered back in post 436. wiatrob mentions the AC line being the problem. I have a refrigerator nearby that I think seems to cause the problem as well, along with my lamp. I also noticed that sometimes my laptop would blank out and reappear, exactly the symptoms of removing the AC adapter. I wasn't paying attention so I couldn't correlate it to my refrigerator's cycles. So I'm guessing that it's causing the AC line to fluctuate in voltages? Why would it cause my DAC to have problems when the Lyrix is connected w/ I'm assuming an unregulated psu?

 This concerns me because I'll be building an amp that will be powered from a wallwart (TREAD PSU) as well. I'm hoping that a regulated supply for my amp will fix whatever I'm having trouble with. I think my phenomenon is a "brownout," but it still doesn't make sense to me, my desktop would've had problems too.

 Sorry if it looks like I'm spilling out lots of crud. This is actually pretty interesting to me..._

 

I'm having a similar 'problem'. Sometimes when my desk light, a small fluoro, is turned on or off, the y1 loses lock over USB. I am quite sure it is just poorly regulated power from the laptop.

 Simple solution....... either leave the light on, or leave it off


----------



## linuxworks

wouldn't a 'stiffening cap' (to borrow a lame car audio term) help, here?

 sounds like your DC is 'browned out' and that is causing the problem?

 its cheap and easy to add a cap to the dc feed to see if it helps. pick something like 470uF or even 1000 and at a safety voltage higher than the DC voltage (so pick 10v or higher, which is easily found).

 see if that helps.


----------



## cetoole

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *linuxworks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_fwiw, I have an old camelot arthur (brand) dac that has an invert switch on it (in the digital domain). but I'm sure they did this in their software/firmware layer in the device (or there was an old dac chip they used, some 10+ yrs ago, that supported phase inversion at the digital level)._

 

That is really easy to do using logic ICs, but would be done on the DAC between the receiver and DAC for something like the Gamma. Not really an option here.


----------



## wiatrob

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ShinyFalcon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My problem with the γ1 "freezing up" wasn't really answered back in post 436. wiatrob mentions the AC line being the problem. I have a refrigerator nearby that I think seems to cause the problem as well, along with my lamp. I also noticed that sometimes my laptop would blank out and reappear, exactly the symptoms of removing the AC adapter. I wasn't paying attention so I couldn't correlate it to my refrigerator's cycles. So I'm guessing that it's causing the AC line to fluctuate in voltages? Why would it cause my DAC to have problems when the Lyrix is connected w/ I'm assuming an unregulated psu?_

 

 It could also be a regulated power supply experiencing enough voltage difference on the xtransformer output to cause the regulator to drop out. I figured my situation out by monitoring the AC line voltage on a meter, and also the output of my transformer. 

 At my house, the Heater fan was causing the issue. Try to see if it affects every circuit in in your house or just one's 'close' to the 'fridge...

 And be careful if you measure ac line voltage!!


----------



## linuxworks

wait, you are saying you can phase invert the resultant analog out by manipulating bits directly at the spdif level, using 'only' gates? how many gates we talkin' about, here? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 what is the idea? read a value, find its complement, convert THAT to analog and output both at the same time?


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## duckndive

Hi All,

 I've been a loooong time reader but never actually gotten round to breaking the silence...so here goes! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've been looking at making a DAC for some time now and have decided that the y1 looks like the way forward, I'm just wondering if anyone knows if you can get all the parts in the UK or if the PCB etc are only available from AMB? (I'm trying to keep the costs down on my maiden voyage if possible - if i can't then never mind!)

 Basically I've got a pair of HD650s and decided the y1 looks like a good combination of price and performance - I want to make something which gives me a decent sound without going OTT on the price on my first attempt, I'd happily welcome anyones view on if this is a good starting point. ( I know there are simpler DACs to make, but Im not particularly worried about that aspect)

 Thanks guys


----------



## royewest

Welcome to head-fi, duckndive. Sorry about your wallet.

 Two questions: Have you built SMD gear before and do you have an amp to connect the Y1 to?


----------



## duckndive

Hi Royewest,

 I've not done that much soldering etc in general for a good while, as for SMD stuff anything I did do was years ago (school!) so we may as well class me as a noob in that department. 

 I've got an amp, though it's far from exotic - an amp was actually next on my list of DIY stuff.

 P.s. That was one fast reply!


----------



## cetoole

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *linuxworks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_wait, you are saying you can phase invert the resultant analog out by manipulating bits directly at the spdif level, using 'only' gates? how many gates we talkin' about, here? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 what is the idea? read a value, find its complement, convert THAT to analog and output both at the same time?_

 

Not by inverting SPDIF data, but rather the I²S data line. One gate is all you need if simple inversion is your goal. Data into one gate of an XOR, other gate to ground gives + output, or tie that gate to vcc to get - output. Use two XORs and you are able to get both polarity outputs with no real delay between phases. You could also use an (gasp) inverter, like 74hcu04 if you just want to swap polarity. Of course, this is all off topic for the Gamma1 thread, so back to your regularly scheduled program.


----------



## TheRobbStory

Anyone have a spare SN74AHC1G02DBVR, Gamma 1 designated 'U8D' ?

 I snapped one in half trying to remove it after accidentally soldering it in the wrong position.

 If someone could drop one in the mail to me, I'll return the favor with some kind of surprise.


----------



## MisterX

Sure, send me the address info and I will drop one in the mail ASAP


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## rhys h

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MisterX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sure, send me the address info and I will drop one in the mail ASAP_

 

MisterX to the rescue, using the most ridiculous postal methods for the smallest of items


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## TheRobbStory

You have PM, sir!


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## digger945

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhys h* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_MisterX to the rescue, using the most ridiculous postal methods for the smallest of items 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Refrigerator box
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




(wouldn't matter to me if it's free!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


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## dude_500

I've noticed that the bass on my computer has been horrible, and I finally had time to look into it today. Recently I switched from the USB on my gamma-1 to SPDIF and I just made the realization today that that was the cause of my loss of bass. I'm talking significant, there is almost nothing below I'd guess 40hz. General bass is at least 4x clearer on USB mode. It seems like it used to be a bit better, but I can't say that for sure, it may have always been this bad. (Tested on two SPDIF sources). It sounds so nice on USB now!

 But, I'd like to fix the spdif. Any thoughts what could cause this?


----------



## amb

I can't think of any reason why S/PDIF might have less or more bass than USB, if all software settings are the same. Check your media player software's EQ settings and disable them. Also, if you're running Windows, use ASIO4ALL to bypass the Windows kmixer.

 You could verify the bass output by playing this 1KHz test tone as a reference, use your DMM's AC V mode to measure the DAC's output voltage. Then repeat this measurement with this 20Hz test tone. Do this with both S/PDIF and USB inputs. If the 1KHz voltage is the same as the 20Hz one, then you know there is no loss of bass.

 Both files are WAV format, 0dBFS sine wave, mono, at 16b/48K. Download the files onto your hard disk to play them rather than playing directly in your browser.


----------



## dude_500

USB 1Khz = .783V
 USB 20hz = .781V

 SPDIF 1KHZ = .183V
 SPDIF 20HZ = .293V

 This was with the computer on the same volume, no change was made between tests except switching sound cards in control panel.

 Perhaps the voltage is too low for the bass to really resonate? I don't know why it is lower than USB's voltage which likely creates a warmer sound being almost 4x higher on the bass. Also doesn't make sense that the SPDIFbass is higher voltage than treble


----------



## amb

dude_500, what computer and OS are you running, and what sound card provides the S/PDIF output? If it's Windows, are you running ASIO4ALL? Is there special control software for that sound card that has a "volume control" that digitally attenuates the S/PDIF audio stream? Since these files are recorded at 0dBFS, regardless of input, both files should produce about 1.5V-1.6V rms at the DAC's output (that is, if there is no mangling of the audio data such as digital attenuation of the volume). You should set all software volume controls to maximum.

 What software are you using to play these files? Make sure that all effects plugins are disabled (such as equalizers, bass boost, crossfeed, whatever).

 Your S/PDIF measurement shows that there is _more_ bass than the midrange, which is opposite of your original report. This is still incorrect, but I suspect it's not a problem with the γ1, but rather a software settings issue. There is nothing in the γ1 that could cause this kind of bass anomaly, whether it's a boost or loss. The only exception is if you try to drive headphones with impedance less than 300 ohms directly without an amp, in which case the γ1's output coupling capacitors would form a high-pass filter and cause bass rolloff. But that shouldn't be the case here, since you're doing the measurements with nothing connected to the DAC output.


----------



## MisterX

Quote:


 Recently I switched from the USB on my gamma-1 to SPDIF and I just made the realization today that that was the cause of my loss of bass. 
 

Are you using the Optical or Coax input?


----------



## linuxworks

I agree with the others, this sounds like the pc 'being weird' and not the gamma1.

 I can't think of a single explanation for why one input method (usb) would sound diff than another (spdif). there is no eq-ing going on in the dac and noting to change freq response based on input type.

 for grins, if you can, try to locate a linux boot cd (ubuntu for example) and see if you can verify the hardware entirely without windows. the linux box should see the audio 'card' but NOTE! do NOT us a usb hub when you use unix and a usb sound card! that's a known problem for some reason (hubs interfere). go direct to the back panel of the usb port, plug nothing else on that usb segment and see if linux has that 'bass problem' via usb or spdif.

 I'm willing to bet there are windows settings that are not 'cleared'. you could also trying going to the control panel in windows, deleting the device, removing it from usb, rebooting, reconnect the device and let windows rediscover it. that sometimes fixes 'stuck settings' inside windows sound system.


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## rhys h

I wish i could get balanced output from this thing! I dont want to see it go so soon


----------



## dude_500

I just turned all the system volumes up to 100% and now both files give 1.58V RMS on both USB and SPDIF. The thing is, unless I'm really losing my mind, the bass is not nearly as present in SPDIF. I'm running it through a strain diy tube amp to HD 600's. My SPDIF source is an m-audio audiophile 192, and I also tested onboard spdif to make sure the card/driver wasn't messed up. I don't have a problem with just using USB, but I'd like to figure out what's going on (although it mathematically doesn't seem like anything is wrong 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## amb

dude_500, I think are are losing your mind. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Iif you look at the schematic diagram, you'll see that in the γ1 full config, after USB audio gets converted to S/PDIF by the PCM2707 chip, it feeds into the CS8416 receiver chip just like the coax and optical streams. There is no difference in circuitry between the three inputs from that point on. And as mentioned before, there is nothing in γ1 that would cause any bass loss, and your measurements now clearly confirms this.


----------



## qusp

hey guys, anyone got any spare *multilayer ceramic capacitor X7R 10nF 50V for C15D, C16D? *I need 2 one for each of these assignments. sux to be so close but so far; only found some time to do some work on it last night to find I was still missing them. could order I guess, but i'm sure i'd get stung on shipping and thats even if I could place an order for such a small amount. I can paypal money for postage and a bit for your time. It would be sent to australia though,, but i'm sure such a small thing could easily just be dropped in a letter. thanks in advance

 cant wait to get this thing up and running; everything is in place for casing and battery power abnd my iriver gets here in a couple of days


----------



## qusp

I guess not


----------



## cook

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dude_500* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just turned all the system volumes up to 100% and now both files give 1.58V RMS on both USB and SPDIF. The thing is, unless I'm really losing my mind, the bass is not nearly as present in SPDIF. I'm running it through a strain diy tube amp to HD 600's. My SPDIF source is an m-audio audiophile 192, and I also tested onboard spdif to make sure the card/driver wasn't messed up. I don't have a problem with just using USB, but I'd like to figure out what's going on (although it mathematically doesn't seem like anything is wrong 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)_

 

I think I've had something similar. Found a coax cable and decided to try it instead of the USB. Actually I was about to run a PC game, so I connected SPDIF and laucned that game. What I've heard was some lower volume and either low on bass or low on highs sound, plus rather annoying delay. Its easier to see/hear in game when sounds usually match some visuals. So I immediately returned everything back to USB.

 Now I think that effect was because PC onboard audio is like 5.1 or 7.1 ch card and USB audio is pure stereo. When game plays via 7.1 card - some downmixing has to happen to make it sound as it was supposed to on the stereo headphones. I don't have full onboard audio card software installed so I have no control to configure card to convert 7.1 sound to stereo before sending it out via SPDIF. At least I think that is my problem with game audio. Now with stereo music file downmixing should not matter. But if you were playing some DVD audio track or other multichannel... I should give that coax another try with music via onboard audio and discrete audio card that I have more conrol over.

 But foobar asio music plays fine with y1 and spdif


----------



## Lingwendil

Alright guys, here's the deal. I have an xbox 360 with optical out that I would like to utilize, and a pc that i would like to use through as well. Will this dac allow me to get sound from both sources? The 360 outputs Dolby Digital stereo, wma pro, and dolby 5.1. will this dac be compatible with dolby digital stereo? Both sources have usb for power. The dac would then feed into my tube preamp, and out from there.


----------



## Beefy

I used an Xbox 360 to test the optical in on my y1. So long as you set it to stereo mode rather than any type of surround sound, it seems to work well.


----------



## amb

Lingwendil, γ1 supports S/PDIF (and AES3, IEC-60958, EIAJ CP1201 extensions). See the "Specifications" section of the γ1 website. It does _not_ support Dolby Digital, dts or other surround sound/video formats.


----------



## linuxworks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I used an Xbox 360 to test the optical in on my y1. So long as you set it to stereo mode rather than any type of surround sound, it seems to work well._

 

often, look for the word 'raw' and pick the other option 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 raw means sending out dts and dd5.1 in multichannel spdif format. you want 'stereo mixdown' or something to that effect that *converts* the multichannel down to 2ch stereo.


----------



## KerryKing

Hi all,

 I must say i am very interested in this DAC.
 I am sorry if the following is already replied to but its a long thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 How would this DAC work with a iriver (i)hp140 and optical out with a mini3?
 Would it be a great improvement to when not using a dac with iriver and a mini3?

 Thanks for your time

 Best regards
 Erik


----------



## royewest

I have happily used this combination: iRiver HP120 with lossless rips > optical cable > Gamma-1 DAC > Mini3. I also configured a rechargeable battery pack with a voltage regulator and an appropriate plug to power the Gamma-1, for off-the-grid bliss (though I rarely ended up needing the battery power). I think I posted details much earlier in this or in the Headwize Gamma-1 thread....


----------



## Lingwendil

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I used an Xbox 360 to test the optical in on my y1. So long as you set it to stereo mode rather than any type of surround sound, it seems to work well._

 

That's great, just what I was looking for. The 360 outputs digital stereo, and I've got a tube-based matrix surround decoder in the works as it is, so this dac is on my to build list. Thanks guys!


----------



## KerryKing

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *royewest* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have happily used this combination: iRiver HP120 with lossless rips > optical cable > Gamma-1 DAC > Mini3. I also configured a rechargeable battery pack with a voltage regulator and an appropriate plug to power the Gamma-1, for off-the-grid bliss (though I rarely ended up needing the battery power). I think I posted details much earlier in this or in the Headwize Gamma-1 thread...._

 

Great thx for the reply,
 Then i am to save up some money and build me one of these 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 /Erik


----------



## rhys h

I love my gamma1, i now have to sell due to changing to balanced system.


----------



## smeggy

I love mine too, hooked up to a Starving Student amp and my orthodynamics it sounds excellent. I can't build them but can say it's well worth its small cost.


----------



## manaox2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *smeggy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I love mine too, hooked up to a Starving Student amp and my orthodynamics it sounds excellent. I can't build them but can say it's well worth its small cost._

 

Smeggy, don't say that! You did great building the SS, I bet you could build one of these.


----------



## smeggy

If I can manage to swap out a mini3 opamp in situ then I may believe you


----------



## nightanole

Does anyone know how much a digikey ones of these would be since mouser is out of alot of stuff. Im trying to make a usb one as cheap as possible. Or im going to have to get a bam dac to stay in budget.


----------



## MisterX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nightanole* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone know how much a digikey ones of these would be since mouser is out of alot of stuff. Im trying to make a usb one as cheap as possible. Or im going to have to get a bam dac to stay in budget._

 


 Less then $35 but that does not include shipping or any of the parts offered by amb.


----------



## cotdt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhys h* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wish i could get balanced output from this thing! I dont want to see it go so soon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Poor you...

 <mod edit>


----------



## pddjsteve

I built a full-configuration version earlier this week, and it works great. So far I've used it usb from my work pc into a mini3, and optical from an airport express into an onkyo receiver. 

 The only issue is that I somehow killed my usb board the day after I got everything built. It happened at work, powered by wallwart and hooked up to usb. It had been working fine all day, but then I went to move it over on my desk, and had a static shock touching the case. The light immediately turned from green to red, and now I get the "usb device not recognized" message on plugging it in. I'm measuring correct voltage at the test points on the usb board, and the DAC board itself still works with SPDIF. I'm going to try replacing the pcm2707 chip, does anyone have other suggestions?


----------



## amb

pddjsteve, most likely the static discharge damaged U1U (PCM2707) and/or U2U (SN74AHC1G08).


----------



## VncentValntine

Hey, so I'm also having the "USB Device Not Recognized" error. All voltage readings are correct, and I've checked/re-flowed all the solder... How easy is it to fry the SMDs? There isn't much on this board, what did I do?


----------



## t0dy

Hi!
 I bought a y1 DAC from MisterX. It sounds very good using lossless and bit-perfect from my computer! It's my first one, so I don't really have anything to compare it to other than my iPod LOD. It's a great DAC, well done!

 I've only been using it via USB, so I have not yet gotten myself a regulated 5V AC/DC adaptor. Via PMs MisterX told me it uses a 100mA one, but when I look on AMBs website the rear view of the y1 says 300mA. I've heard it consumes 70~90mA?
 Now, what I wonder must be pretty simple, but how does a wall wart support a device with electric power? If the wart says "500mA" for example, does it "shoot out" 500mA constantly or does it give the device the possibility to "draw" the required amount of current needed up to 500mA?

 I asked a specialist store here in sweden what they had and found this: https://www1.elfa.se/elfa~se_sv/b2b/...do?tab=catalog
 Output is 5-12V, 0.2-0.3A. Would it work or is the current too high? Do you know where to find cheaper wall warts suitable for the y1? The one I found costs a whopping $40-45 without the cord! Or is this the price I should expect for a regulated adaptor with 5V and 100-200mA output?

 Thanks for helping me out, I really don't know much yet!


----------



## m1abrams

Well the device will draw the amount of current it needs. The rating on the wallwart is its MAX amount of current it can provide. Now some Wallwart that are overrated for the application may provide a higher voltage than they are rated for, however this is usually not the case in a switching regulated PSU that you would use for the y1.

 I am not sure about the economics in Sweden, however in the U.S. $40-$50 is way too much for a switching regulated wallwart for the y1. I would expect to pay about $10-$20.


----------



## t0dy

I found in an "aussi y1 group buy" thread this:

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MisterX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Digi-key does offer a switch mode adapter with a multi plug kit but I would rather you use a linear regulated adapter if you can find one. 

Digi-Key - T946-P5P-ND (CUI Inc - EMS050120-P5P-SZ)_

 

In what way would a linear regulated adapter be better than a switching? FWIR, the switching is a newer type of adapter which is better in (almost?) every way than an old, linear one. But as I've said, I'm very new to this.

 The economics in Sweden is quite bad at the moment, but I still think the swedish price is way too high.

 I don't even know what to search for (in swedish) on google. Maybe I should look around in real life, ask the staff working in that kind of stores.


----------



## m1abrams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *t0dy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I found in an "aussi y1 group buy" thread this:



 In what way would a linear regulated adapter be better than a switching? FWIR, the switching is a newer type of adapter which is better in (almost?) every way than an old, linear one. But as I've said, I'm very new to this.

 The economics in Sweden is quite bad at the moment, but I still think the swedish price is way too high.

 I don't even know what to search for (in swedish) on google. Maybe I should look around in real life, ask the staff working in that kind of stores._

 

A linear adapter provides less noise in most cases than a switching. Switching is cheaper, smaller, more power efficient. Not sure how much the y1 would benefit from using a cleaner linear supply? Since AMB recommends a switching supply and the power you get from the USB comes from a switching supply I suspect you would see little benefit using a linear supply.

 AMB has recommend supplies on his site.
 USA - 5 VDC 1.6 AMP SWITCHING POWER SUPPLY | AllElectronics.com
 Euro - 230V EURO SWITCHING SUPPLY, 5VDC 1A | AllElectronics.com

 HOWEVER - note that the neat thing about the gamma1 is that it can be powered by the USB even if you are using the SPDIF input. You could use one of the phone charges you may already own to power it via USB and have your input on one of the SPDIF inputs.


----------



## t0dy

Yeah, the EURO one looks good. Costs only $5.50 BUT the total price is $22, my god... And it says: "We cannot accept your order on-line.
 Please print your order and either email (allcorp@allcorp.com) or fax (818-781-2653) us your order. You will receive a shipping quote."

 Does anyone know where I should start looking for a suitable power supply for the y1 in Sweden or in Europe with not-so-darned expensive shipping?

 Thanks!

 About the phone chargers, I'm not really sure what you mean. Do you mean power the y1 via USB cable from computer and then use S/PDIF to stream the data?

 EDIT: Oh, you mean a wall wart with USB output? Should this work you mean? Please confirm so I can say WOOHOO!


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *t0dy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, the EURO one looks good. Costs only $5.50 BUT the total price is $22, my god... And it says: "We cannot accept your order on-line.
 Please print your order and either email (allcorp@allcorp.com) or fax (818-781-2653) us your order. You will receive a shipping quote."

 Does anyone know where I should start looking for a suitable power supply for the y1 in Sweden or in Europe with not-so-darned expensive shipping?

 Thanks!

 About the phone chargers, I'm not really sure what you mean. Do you mean power the y1 via USB cable from computer and then use S/PDIF to stream the data?

 EDIT: Oh, you mean a wall wart with USB output? Should this work you mean? Please confirm so I can say WOOHOO! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 


 you can say woohoo; that will work if you have one already. anything that powers by USB is therefore getting 5v through the USB cable well in general. thats part of the USB standard. any powered USB output; even the one containing the audio signal should also power the Y1 if i'm not mistaken, so you shouldnt have to use optical or coax; but IMO both SPDIF sigals are superior anyway, so if you can use one of them you are coming out on top. the Y1 has to be able to be powered over USB for use with a laptop. but not all USB ports will supply enough or steady enough power especially if they are part of a hub that is powering other devices


----------



## t0dy

WOOHOO!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was definately too "insnöad" on getting a real linear regulated 5V 100mA adaptor -> keep it simple, stupid! (@myself)


----------



## m1abrams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *t0dy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, the EURO one looks good. Costs only $5.50 BUT the total price is $22, my god... And it says: "We cannot accept your order on-line.
 Please print your order and either email (allcorp@allcorp.com) or fax (818-781-2653) us your order. You will receive a shipping quote."

 Does anyone know where I should start looking for a suitable power supply for the y1 in Sweden or in Europe with not-so-darned expensive shipping?

 Thanks!

 About the phone chargers, I'm not really sure what you mean. Do you mean power the y1 via USB cable from computer and then use S/PDIF to stream the data?

 EDIT: Oh, you mean a wall wart with USB output? Should this work you mean? Please confirm so I can say WOOHOO! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes the edit part is what I meant, however you could also use the computer usb as a power source only. This is actually what I do with mine at home cause I use the spdif output from my computer for the input but have the usb cable connected to power it so that I do not use up a spot on my power strip.


----------



## MisterX

Quote:


 Do you know where to find cheaper wall warts suitable for the y1? 
 

Farnell. 
 (# 1176284 is one example)


----------



## MisterX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *t0dy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WOOHOO!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was definately too "insnöad" on getting a real linear regulated 5V 100mA adaptor -> keep it simple, stupid! (@myself)_

 

No, you were fine. 
 You just need to learn to listen to what people tell you.


----------



## MisterX

The only reason we selected that AC adapter is because it has a 1.3mm plug. 
 Bench testing has suggested that a linear regulated power supply wins every time. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *m1abrams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A linear adapter provides less noise in most cases than a switching. Switching is cheaper, smaller, more power efficient. Not sure how much the y1 would benefit from using a cleaner linear supply? Since AMB recommends a switching supply and the power you get from the USB comes from a switching supply I suspect you would see little benefit using a linear supply.

 AMB has recommend supplies on his site.
 USA - 5 VDC 1.6 AMP SWITCHING POWER SUPPLY | AllElectronics.com
 Euro - 230V EURO SWITCHING SUPPLY, 5VDC 1A | AllElectronics.com

 HOWEVER - note that the neat thing about the gamma1 is that it can be powered by the USB even if you are using the SPDIF input. You could use one of the phone charges you may already own to power it via USB and have your input on one of the SPDIF inputs._


----------



## t0dy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *m1abrams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes the edit part is what I meant, however you could also use the computer usb as a power source only. This is actually what I do with mine at home cause I use the spdif output from my computer for the input but have the usb cable connected to power it so that I do not use up a spot on my power strip._

 

Yeah, I'd do that as well when connecting to my computer if I want to try if the S/PDIF sounds better, but when wanting to connect the DAC to another source, away from a computer, a wall wart is needed for me.

 @MisterX; thanks for the link! I must really suck on finding the right ones (searched for 100mA ones). Anyway, does the 1176284 one come with an adapter for use in Sweden, because it's a UK input connector attached on the picture.


----------



## MisterX

Yeah, I noticed that one had a UK style plug in the picture. 
 Unfortunately the datasheet is not much help.
 Will see if I can find you another one.....


----------



## t0dy

Hey MisterX, you're very helpful! Thank you for all the help!
 It will be a pain ordering from Farnell though, everything they sell is listed without taxes and they sell only to companies as far as I can tell, not private persons. 
 A linear regulated sounds like the best bet since your bench testing proves that, and I wouldn't really want the wall wart to limit the wonderful DACs potential! (even if it's little 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *VncentValntine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, so I'm also having the "USB Device Not Recognized" error. All voltage readings are correct, and I've checked/re-flowed all the solder... How easy is it to fry the SMDs? There isn't much on this board, what did I do?_

 

Did your y1 ever work via USB before? If this is a new build then most likely there is either a solder joint problem or U2U is the wrong part. It would take quite an electrostatic shock to damage the chips, but you should nevertheless take standard ESD precautions when handling them.


----------



## MisterX

t0dy: PMed you a RS link instead.....


----------



## hansel_ng

hello,

 while the headwize forum is still down. I have a weird issue with foobar and the y1 DAC. Here's a copy of a post i made in the foobar support forum. Has anyone encountered a similar issue? thanks

 ----------------


 Hello everyone,

 I have a problem. I recently built a USB DAC (The &gamma;1 Modular Miniature DAC), and it functions as an external soundcard.

 The problem is that after about 3-5 hours continuous playback on foobar, the computer will hang with the black screen.

 I thought that it was a hardware issue, but (1) I built 2 of these and both have the same problem; and (2) This does not occur with any other program (can play continuously with e.g. VLC media player).

 However, it seems odd that foobar and the USB DAC would cause some conflict only after a set time, often in the middle of a track.

 Could someone please advise? I'm loathe to use any other music player.


 Many thanks in advance.


----------



## MisterX

Windows vista?


----------



## UglyJoe

Here's a question for you Mac users. I'm using my Macbook as my digital source, via the toslink optical out to my gamma. I've setup the Audio Midi output settings to 24bit stereo, 96kHz output for the optical out. The question is, how does this system handle 16bit 44.1kHz media? Does it "upconvert" the file before sending it to the gamma? I'd like for the system to play the media in it's native resolution without any upconverting or downconverting, etc. Does anyone know exactly what's going on on the Mac side of things with this setup?


----------



## MisterX

Quote:


 Does it "upconvert" the file before sending it to the gamma? 
 

Yes, setting the software to output a 24/96 signal causes re-sampling.


----------



## royewest

I think the consensus is that for anything except tracks encoded at higher levels, the cleanest path is to set 44100 Hz and 2ch-24bit in Audio MIDI _before_ you start iTunes.


----------



## VncentValntine

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did your y1 ever work via USB before? If this is a new build then most likely there is either a solder joint problem or U2U is the wrong part. It would take quite an electrostatic shock to damage the chips, but you should nevertheless take standard ESD precautions when handling them._

 

Alright I got that fixed... Now onto a new prob. When I sandwich the boards (the pc recognizes the dac) and test the dac for voltage, I get a good reading from the 3.3v but get a reading of around 3.2 from the 4.5v pad... Bad solder, or wrong component?

 This is mainly an update post since I won't simply be waiting for your post, and will try to figure this out on my own 

 edit: well this is weird... I think its working, the light turns green (on my laptop), but when I encase it and hook it up to my system (main pc), it wont work and it does that "usb not recognized" thing. I then go and reflow solder and magically it works again (on the laptop) so i enclose it again, test it again on my laptop go to my main pc hook it up, it sees it I try to play through it but only get high pitched hissing and a red light. Go to my laptop again and it says "usb not recognized" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 What, is this a cold solder joint?


----------



## hansel_ng

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MisterX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Windows vista?_

 

nope XP on an atom processor


----------



## fordgtlover

There is a post here somewhere about the markings on the two vreg chips.


----------



## amb

VncentValntine, what you describe sounds like there are more marginal solder joints. The 3.2V measurement at the 4.5V test point suggests you have the wrong voltage regulator installed as U6D. Also, make sure your JP1U, JP2U and JP2D are set properly for your configuration (Full or Lite).


----------



## VncentValntine

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_VncentValntine, what you describe sounds like there are more marginal solder joints. The 3.2V measurement at the 4.5V test point suggests you have the wrong voltage regulator installed as U6D. Also, make sure your JP1U, JP2U and JP2D are set properly for your configuration (Full or Lite)._

 

sorry, i should have also mentioned that when the dac was functioning, I measured 4.7 volts from the 4.5 test point, which led me to believe the components are correct, so i believe its my shoddy soldering. I 'll turn up the heat a little and make sure those ground points are mated securely.


----------



## NOTFRAGILE

My Little Dot MK1+ just showed up today. I'm going to spend the next few days charging and recharging as per Penchums review of the MK1. I don't know if this is necessary with the MK1+, but it showed up with the instruction manual in Chinese. Question though, How well would the Gamma 1 (full version) work with this amp? I have a Pioneer DVD / SACD / CD player with optical out and a UH 25 sound card, also with optical out. I have some decent phones, K-701s and UE 5's.

 Regards
 Dave


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *NOTFRAGILE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Question though, How well would the Gamma 1 (full version) work with this amp?_

 

The y1 certainly won't be weak link in the chain......


----------



## fordgtlover

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *NOTFRAGILE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_snip...
 How well would the Gamma 1 (full version) work with this amp? 

 ...snip_

 

I have been using mine with both the M³ and the Bijou amps. It sounds very good with either of these. I can't see any reason why it wouldn't sound very good with your amp.


----------



## NOTFRAGILE

Ok. So I have to admit to some not understanding. In the digital world we have a source. From this source we need to convert digital to analogue. I assume some digital sources are superior to others. Or perhaps the pathway also makes a big difference. If I listen to my laptop thru the resident card, it will frequently pop and there is a fair amount of background noise. If I listen to it thru my UH 25 sound card it sounds pretty darn good. Now what puzzles me in regards to the question I asked above, if I take the digital out of my SACD player for example, and plug it into the Gamma 1, and then take the analogue out of the gamma 1 and put it thru my MK1+, isn't the audio going to be only as good as the DAC of the MK1+?

 Regards
 Dave


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *NOTFRAGILE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok. So I have to admit to some not understanding....._

 

In digital music, there are three things that are important before music gets to your headphones: Transport, DAC, Amp.

 The transport supplies the digital data. It might be the CD drive of your SACD player reading the CD, or your media player (and possibly sound card, but lets ignore this) reading an MP3 on your computer. You can't hear digital data, so......

 ...... the digital data goes to your DAC. There are lots of ways for the digital data to get there, but lets ignore this. DAC stands for digital to analogue converter, and does exactly what it says it does. The analogue output from normally has very low current capability, so you need.....

 ..... the amp. Amps take a low level analogue signal and give that signal enough voltage and current so that it can drive your headphones.

 When most people talk about a 'source', they are referring to the transport and DAC as one unit.

  Quote:


 Now what puzzles me in regards to the question I asked above, if I take the digital out of my SACD player for example, and plug it into the Gamma 1, and then take the analogue out of the gamma 1 and put it thru my MK1+, isn't the audio going to be only as good as the DAC of the MK1+? 
 

Your MK1+ does not have a DAC. It is only an amp.

 CD -> SACD player transport -> digital signal -> gamma 1 DAC -> low level analogue signal -> LDMK1+ amp -> high level analogue signal -> headphones


----------



## NOTFRAGILE

Things are becoming clearer. I notice you have a pair of UE superfi 5 Pros. I have these and on a whole I prefer them sound-wise to my K-701's. I'd like to ask you about your I-pod though. I have an I-pod touch 2g 16gig that I have 255 songs on recorded in full wav. I'll be using an LOG but at the moment, as mentioned above, I haven't had my first listen (45 minutes to first full charge). What is your opinion on that set-up?

 Regards
 Dave


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *NOTFRAGILE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have an I-pod touch 2g 16gig that I have 255 songs on recorded in full wav. I'll be using an LOG but at the moment, as mentioned above, I haven't had my first listen (45 minutes to first full charge). What is your opinion on that set-up?_

 

I think you mean LOD, as in Line Out Dock 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 To be honest, I don't use the 5Pro very much at all. They provide too much isolation for when I am at work, and aren't really comfortable enough for everyday use at home. So I really only use them on plane flights.

 That being said, the 5Pro straight out of the iPod Classic are pretty damn good, as are my ESW9. I did have a LOD and 2Move, and it was possibly a tiny bit better, but I never used them as a portable...... it was just such pain to carry the whole thing around.


----------



## NOTFRAGILE

Yes LOD my mistake.... thx for the conversation. I use my UE's quite regularly now. Took some getting used to. When one listens to speakers, I have had a set of horn loaded EV 15's .... it's hard to beat the immediacy of that. But if you are listening for accuracy and detail, it's hard to beat the UE's. Of course I only have heard thes and not UE's better models.

 Regards
 dave


----------



## hansel_ng

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hansel_ng* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hello,

 while the headwize forum is still down. I have a weird issue with foobar and the y1 DAC. Here's a copy of a post i made in the foobar support forum. Has anyone encountered a similar issue? thanks

 ----------------


 Hello everyone,

 I have a problem. I recently built a USB DAC (The &gamma;1 Modular Miniature DAC), and it functions as an external soundcard.

 The problem is that after about 3-5 hours continuous playback on foobar, the computer will hang with the black screen.

 I thought that it was a hardware issue, but (1) I built 2 of these and both have the same problem; and (2) This does not occur with any other program (can play continuously with e.g. VLC media player).

 However, it seems odd that foobar and the USB DAC would cause some conflict only after a set time, often in the middle of a track.

 Could someone please advise? I'm loathe to use any other music player.


 Many thanks in advance._

 



 Anyone? Basically the PC just hangs after a certain period of continuous playback. Am completely frazzled any help would be much appreciated


----------



## linuxworks

try deleting your usb device. and having windows re-add it at discovery time.

 get the pc up and running with usb device showing up in control panel. go to system hardware view and delete the device icon for usb sound. no lower level drivers (!) just the hardware device itself. then reboot with no sound device connected, let it boot fully and then try connecting the 'sound card' again and let it discover it.

 SOMETIMES that puts the sound system 'right' again.

 also does it matter if you use different front/rear usb ports?

 what if you remove ALL usb devices but the sound card?

 are you behind usb hubs or direct?

 is there a bios/mobo sound card that can also be disabled?

 that's all I can think of for now


----------



## MisterX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hansel_ng* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_nope XP on an atom processor_

 

That is a start...
 How much ram?
 What version of Foobar?
 What output method are you using? 


 You have to give us some information to work with.


----------



## hansel_ng

hello MisterX

 ok it has 1gb of ram. Using the latest version of Foobar, v0.9.6.4. 

 What do you mean by output method? It's basically plug and play for me i.e. default foobar settings. Could I toy with it?

 The hanging seems to have become less consistent since I've installed the latest ALAC codec, but it hanged again after several hours of playing FLAC files. Entire screen freezes, music stops, but light on DAC stays green. 

 linuxworks: I deleted the USB device and reinstalled it again. hopefully it will help! Very hard to tell because I have to let it run overnight to see if there is any freeze. 


 thanks everyone.


----------



## MisterX

direct sound or ASIO? 
 And yeah, I am thinking you might be able to solve it by simply "toying with it". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (I would suggest downloading ASIO4all and using ASIO as the output method, I would also suggest resampling to 48K with the DSP)


----------



## pddjsteve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_pddjsteve, most likely the static discharge damaged U1U (PCM2707) and/or U2U (SN74AHC1G08)._

 

Thanks, I hadn't thought about U2U being the culprit, I was thinking it was on the output of the chip but I just looked at the schematic again. Good thing I haven't had time to desolder anything yet. Hopefully swapping that out will resolve the problem and I won't have to mess with the PCM. I'll have to check if I have a spare u2u.

 Luckily since they haven't been running the heat all the time anymore the office has much less of a static problem... I still don't know how I managed to zap it so badly.


----------



## Ob3ron

Hi folks, 

 I've just assembled the USB board for the gamma1 and I'm running through the initial check. 

 No USB plugged in:

 +5V to GND: 25 Mohm (steady)
 +3.3 V to GND: 25 Mohm (steady)
 +5V to +3.3V: ~75-90 Kohm (not steady)

 With USB plugged in: (and jumper across J2U pins 1&2)

 +5V to GND: 1.05V
 +3.3 V to GND: 1.05V

 I thought I had somehow shorted +5V to +3.3V but isn't the resistance between them too high to be a short (75-90 Kohm)? And my soldering looks fine, though I don't have a loupe to get in realllly close for the SMT chips. 

 UPDATE: 

 Here's some measurements off the pins of the mini USB connector

 Pin 1 to 5: 5.10V
 Pin 1 to GND: 1.05V
 Pin 5 to GND: -4.03V

 Considering that Pin 5 _is_ GND, why am I getting a voltage drop?

 Any ideas where I may have gone wrong?


----------



## nightanole

Im about to start my build and had a few cleaning questions. At work i normally sonic clean all my rma stuff in alcohol. Is it ok to sonic clean this board, as long as i do it before mounting the crystal?


----------



## MisterX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nightanole* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Im about to start my build and had a few cleaning questions. At work i normally sonic clean all my rma stuff in alcohol. Is it ok to sonic clean this board, as long as i do it before mounting the crystal?_

 

Yes, but I would suggest not trying to ultrasonically clean the TORX, TOTX modules and transformers as well.


----------



## amb

Ob3ron, try reflowing the solder joint of your USB connector and the ferrite beads. The 5V line from the USB connector _is_ VBUS at J2U, so there is no reason why the voltages would be different at those two points.


----------



## rhys h

I have had to sell on my gamma1, as it is no longer suitable for my system. Just a quick thanks to AMB and MisterX for such a great little DAC!


----------



## Ob3ron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ob3ron, try reflowing the solder joint of your USB connector and the ferrite beads. The 5V line from the USB connector is VBUS at J2U, so there is no reason why the voltages would be different at those two points._

 

Thanks Ti! I just used a little copper braid on underside of the USB connector and it works 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. At least with what I've been able to test without a wallwart. 

 First impressions are damned good. My M3 has never sounded so clean. Much better than any of the DACs built into anything that I own. Can't wait to try out the rest of the config!


----------



## Rayko

Hi,

 I've assembled a gamma1 lite, but can't get any sound out of it.

 In the initial tests, all is good until we get to the part about make music. Win XP sees the USB audio device, the software pushes the stream, but no sound.

 Any clues where to check?

 I've reflowed all the ic's and many of the thru hole devices, checked continuity from device legs to pads. I've double checked placement of the ic's.

 I get the same results with both a desktop and laptop.


----------



## amb

Rayko, do you have all the jumpers set correctly? For a Lite configuration, a jumper should be installed across JP1U pins 2 and 3 ("I2S"). JP2U-[1-3] should all be jumpered, and JP1D should also be jumpered.


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Rayko* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any clues where to check?_

 

Have you got some sort of status LED in there? For the full builds, the switch glows green when you have a SPDIF stream......


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you got some sort of status LED in there? For the full builds, the switch glows green when you have a SPDIF stream......_

 

There is no switch or status indicator in a Lite configuration.


----------



## Rayko

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Rayko, do you have all the jumpers set correctly? For a Lite configuration, a jumper should be installed across JP1U pins 2 and 3 ("I2S"). JP2U-[1-3] should all be jumpered, and JP1D should also be jumpered._

 

Yes, the jumpers are set as you've stated.


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is no switch or status indicator in a Lite configuration._

 

It can still be added, surely?


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Rayko* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, the jumpers are set as you've stated._

 

Assuming that all the voltages at the test points are correct, then the only advice I have is to go over all the chips and other polarized parts to make sure they are installed in the correct orientation, and that your solder joints really are good, particularly the PCM2707 and WM8501 chips. You should also make sure that you did not install any parts that should be left unpopulated in the Lite config.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* 
_It can still be added, surely?_

 

No, the status indicator in the γ1 Full config is driven off a couple of status pins of the CS8416 receiver/mux chip. In the γ1 Lite config, the CS8416 is not (nor should it be) populated.


----------



## Rayko

It looks like ENABLE on the Wolfsen U3D is not being asserted.
 I'm seeing 0 volts at pin 1 of U4D. Shouldn't it be postive after +3.3 stabilizes?


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, the status indicator in the γ1 Full config is driven off a couple of status pins of the CS8416 receiver/mux chip. In the γ1 Lite config, the CS8416 is not (nor should it be) populated._

 

*slaps forehead*

 Of course. That will teach me to look at the parts list before mouthing off.


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Rayko* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm seeing 0 volts at pin 1 of U4D. Shouldn't it be postive after +3.3 stabilizes?_

 

Yes, U4D pin 3 should go to 3.3V about 350mS (MCP100) or 150mS (DS1818) after 3.3V appears at its pin 2. Make sure you didn't mix up the two parts -- U4D should be a MCP100 or DS1818, and U9D should be a MCP101 or DS1817.

 Assuming you have the right parts in these locations, measure the voltage at U4D pin 2. If you have the proper 3.3V, then U4D is bad.


----------



## Rayko

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, U4D pin 3 should go to 3.3V about 350mS (MCP100) or 150mS (DS1818) after 3.3V appears at its pin 2. Make sure you didn't mix up the two parts -- U4D should be a MCP100 or DS1818, and U9D should be a MCP101 or DS1817.

 Assuming you have the right parts in these locations, measure the voltage at U4D pin 2. If you have the proper 3.3V, then U4D is bad._

 

Thanks, you nailed it.

 When I looked them up, I noticed MCP100 was active low vs MCP101 active high, but it didn't dawn on me that swapping them would give the results I had.

 I had double checked the placement of all the other IC's, but didn't spot these because of their close spacing.

 Now if I can get those puppies out without shooting myself in the foot...


----------



## helzerr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Rayko* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now if I can get those puppies out without shooting myself in the foot..._

 

I dip my desoldering wick in flux, and apply flux to the joint(s) to be desoldered. With the iron cranked up to ~800 F makes it a snap. I just removed the TX147PL from my Y1 without so much as a trace of a component having ever been installed there.

 FYI, the TX147PL was the reason my γ1 was consuming nearly 300 mA continuously, and dropping out when fed USB data. I'm not sure if the part was defective, killed by ESD, or if soldering took it out; folks may want to take extra care with this part, as it seems to be fragile.

 [edit: It turns out I had the wrong part for U7D. Somehow I managed to order and installed a TOTX147PL fiber-optic *transmitter* instead of a TORX147PL fiber-optic *receiver*! Replaced with the correct part and now my γ1 works flawlessly.]


----------



## amb

Be careful with desoldering wick and high iron temperatures. While this combo works well you have to do it quickly. Prolonged heating will cause the pads/traces to come off the board and also possibly damage the parts.


----------



## Rayko

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Be careful with desoldering wick and high iron temperatures. While this combo works well you have to do it quickly. Prolonged heating will cause the pads/traces to come off the board and also possibly damage the parts._

 

We have music!

 I was pessimistic about saving the parts but the only direction to go was forward.

 The new DAC goes well with the mini3 I built last week.

 Thanks for giving my listening pleasure a big boost by making your wonderful designs available to us mere mortals.


----------



## amb

Excellent!


----------



## Cankin

amb: are we approaching the announcement of the new high end DAC soon?

 I love my gamma lite and can't wait to hear the high end DAC by you


----------



## dhp

It sounds awesome. Great success. I rejoice.


----------



## helzerr

The high-end DAC; my wallet whimpers and cowers in fear...

 Echoing what Rayko said: Thank you amb for sharing your wonderful designs, providing difficult to source parts via the amb audio shop, and your dedication to support the DIYers who build your projects. I have derived immeasurable satisfaction and enjoyment from building and listening to your designs.


----------



## amb

1/2 of the thanks should go to MisterX, my partner of the γ1 project.

 As for a high-end DAC, it's on my plate of things to do but that plate is quite full (much of which has nothing to do with audio), so it will be a while. Btw, don't let γ1's low cost and mini size mislead you. It may not have balanced in and outs or fancy displays found on commercial high-end DACs, but it doesn't embarrass itself in their company.


----------



## helzerr

Indeed, thanks also to MisterX for his contribution to the γ1; it's a fine DAC with absolutely wonderful sound quality and portability as an added bonus!

 The only feature I really long for is sample rate indication, of course additional I/O options a full-size DAC can afford will be nice, too.


----------



## KT88

Hi Guys,

 Having some trouble with the one I've built. The JP2D pins 1-2 are shorted to ground, what can be the problem? (I cant find any solder bridges).


----------



## Rayko

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KT88* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Guys,

 Having some trouble with the one I've built. The JP2D pins 2-3 are shorted to ground, what can be the problem? (I cant find any solder bridges)._

 

Is that with the shorting block removed from jp2d?

 If there's a ground on jp2d pin 3, check the three pin side of u5d and u6d for a bridge between pins.


----------



## MisterX

Do you have a good high rez image that we can 1000X zoom in on and maybe spot what the problem is? 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KT88* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Guys,

 Having some trouble with the one I've built. The JP2D pins 2-3 are shorted to ground, what can be the problem? (I cant find any solder bridges)._


----------



## KT88

Sorry, I meant pins 1-2 are shorted to ground not 2-3.

 As for pictures, here they are (dont mind the flux I will clean it in a few minutes):
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/2970/img0317a.jpg

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/4638/img0316.jpg


----------



## ruZZ.il

<minds the flux>


----------



## amb

Can't tell if it's just flux, or solder bridge at arrow?
 Clean the flux off the board first. It'll make it much easier to check for shorts.


----------



## KT88

Tried that one. not a solder bridge, I will post some pictures after I clean the flux.


----------



## MisterX

It also looks like you missed a few solder joints. 
 (one on the switch, one on the DC jack and U5D's ground pin also looks suspect)


----------



## KT88

Cleaned up a little bit, took another photo. The USB board started making some problem too (worked fine this morning but not now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - but I dont really care about it, the DAC board is the important thing for me).

 Here's the photo in higher res, hope you guys will be able to spot the problem:


----------



## adamus

these look suspect. Sure you iron is hot enough?


----------



## KT88

checked all of these, they were fine. The iron is at 360C (now moved up to 390 since there's no SMD at the moment).


----------



## KT88

Got it. U1D was the cause of the problem. Unfortunatley since I took it out in the middle of being too angry to be gentle, I just ripped it out, so now no U1D, just using the jumper instead. The USB board is still no working, but I've checked everything except for the PCM2702 chip, so not sure how I'm gonna take it out without destroying it.


----------



## amb

Without specialized desoldering equipment there is just about no way to remove the PCM270*7* chip without destroying it. Basically you have to cut all the leads off, remove the chip, heat and remove the leads off the pads one by one, and then clean up the pads.


----------



## KT88

Hi Ti,

 I know I can remove it that way, but that means I'll have to purchase another chip, and shipping to Israel is an issue 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll try something else before that, it might work, will keep you all posted.


----------



## nightanole

UH so im making the lite version, with j1d, do jumper to S or do i jumper to +?


----------



## MisterX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nightanole* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_UH so im making the lite version, with j1d, do jumper to S or do i jumper to +?_

 

Neither, there is no reason to jumper any of the J1D pads.


----------



## nightanole

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MisterX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Neither, there is no reason to jumper any of the J1D pads._

 

γ1 Configuration JP1D JP2D JP1U JP2U-1 JP2U-2 JP2U-3 Note
 Full configuration (A) open see below short 1-2 open open open -
 Lite configuration (B) closed see below short 2-3 short short short -



 Acording to the web site jp1d should be closed for the lite version. looks like it jumpers the resistor bank to data.


----------



## nightanole

Uh i think it was a reading error, got j1d mixed up with jp1d


----------



## MisterX

JP1D and J1D are two very different things. 

 Either way looks like you answered your own question.


----------



## nightanole

noooooo im short one cap for C8U!!!!


 Thats gonna cost 7 bucks...


----------



## MisterX

Not necessarily. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Where are you located?


----------



## nightanole

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MisterX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not necessarily. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Where are you located?_

 

Im in ohio, I went with the standard digikey 565-3051-ND for the other 2.


----------



## MisterX

PM me your address info and I will drop one in the mail ASAP.


----------



## hansel_ng

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MisterX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_direct sound or ASIO? 
 And yeah, I am thinking you might be able to solve it by simply "toying with it". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (I would suggest downloading ASIO4all and using ASIO as the output method, I would also suggest resampling to 48K with the DSP)_

 

updating all drivers and using ASIO worked. thanks!


----------



## fordgtlover

I've been doing some tests using different output capacitors. While I'm still undecided about which ones I prefer, I thought I would share a tip with other builders.

 It was suggested to me by a reliable source to try the y1 without the output bypass caps (C26D, C27D). After listening to this configuration for the past week or so I am convinced that this is an improvement.


----------



## nightanole

Its ok little Wima's ,the bad man didnt mean it, we love you just the way you are.


----------



## MisterX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fordgtlover* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It was suggested to me by a reliable source to try the y1 without the output bypass caps (C26D, C27D). After listening to this configuration for the past week or so I am convinced that this is an improvement._

 



 Regardless of the electrolytic caps used or just with the black gates output caps?


----------



## deaconblues

I'd like to have a usb dac in which the analog output is electrically isolated from the PC, in order to avoid ground loop issues with my computer. It's not an issue with my M3, but things get nasty between my laptop and my Little Dot MKIII. 

 It looks like the simplest way to do this would be to just connect the USB board's coax output to the DAC board's coax input, since those are already isolated with pulse transformers. However, I was wondering if it would be feasible to run the I2S signals through transformers as well and connect the boards that way. Anyone know whether this is possible? And if it is possible, would it offer much advantage over connecting the boards thru SPDIF?


----------



## MisterX

Transformer coupling the "I2S signals" is not going to do anything to solve a grounding issue. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you really want to stick a transformer in there it should go between the analog outputs and the next device.


----------



## fordgtlover

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nightanole* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Its ok little Wima's ,the bad man didnt mean it, we love you just the way you are._

 

I don't anymore. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MisterX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Regardless of the electrolytic caps used or just with the black gates output caps?_

 

IMHO removing the output bypass caps is an improvement when using either the Silmics or the black gates, which are the two nicest sounding of the types I have tested so far.

 I have tested Rybycon ZLG, Panasonic FC, Elna Silmic II Black Gate nx - all 22uf. I've just picked up some oscons to try as well.

 From my recent cap swapping, my opinion is that removing the bypass caps is more noticeable than replacing the silmics with black gates. 

 I'm currently swapping between the silmics and the black gates (nx) to try and decide which one I like the best. I can't hear much difference between them.


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fordgtlover* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have tested Rybycon ZLG, Panasonic FC, Elna Silmic II Black Gate nx - all 22uf. I've just picked up some oscons to try as well._

 

Did you end up grabbing some 47µF NX's as well?


----------



## fordgtlover

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you end up grabbing some 47µF NX's as well?_

 

I did, but I haven't tried them yet.

 Given that I'm running my Y1 into a M3 amp (50K pot), won't the 47uF caps reduce the high pass rolloff frequency to .14Hz compared to the rolloff frequency of .30Hz with the 22uF? 

 If my understanding (and calculations) are correct, this isn't much of a concern to me.


----------



## Beefy

No, I'm absolutely not worried about corner frequencies. Just curious


----------



## fordgtlover

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, I'm absolutely not worried about corner frequencies. Just curious 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 






 I also picked up some standard black gates to see how they would sound compared to the NX series, but I haven't tried them yet either.


----------



## fordgtlover

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you end up grabbing some 47µF NX's as well?_

 

Have yours arrived yet?


----------



## Beefy

Not yet. Normally for a Monday send I would expect them on Friday, but obviously missed out with the holiday.

 If they don't arrive when deliveries start again on Tuesday...... well, I know where you live


----------



## deaconblues

nooooooooooo, the switch is out of stock at both mouser & digikey!

 I found what appears to be basically the same switch except without the status LED. Would it work as a replacement?

Digi-Key - 360-1770-ND (NKK Switches of America Inc - G13AV-RO)


----------



## MisterX

No, pins 4,5 and 6 are the "support" pins for the LEDs in the bicolor illuminated switch
 (the SPDT switch plugs into the wrong holes on the Gamma 1 circuit board)

 Maybe try the DPDT version and and leave out R11D? 

633-G22AV-RO
 (or cut off pins 4,5 and 6 and wire in a bicolor LED)


----------



## deaconblues

Thanks for the suggestion. It looks like it's gonna be the same price for less functionality with that switch though. However, it turns out that I can just wait for mouser and digikey to get the proper switch in stock. I had already ordered all the parts for a full configuration (minus the switch of course), so I went ahead and put it together. I just tried it now, and luckily it turns out that without the switch there, USB is selected as the input. Since my computer doesn't have any SPDIF output (yet), I'm limited to using USB anyway.

 I noticed that in the full configuration, the 2707 sends SPDIF data to the DAC board while the lite configuration uses I2S. If I'm gonna be using the γ1 as a USB DAC, would the lite configuration offer any significant advantage besides lower cost? It's kind of a moot point at this stage, since I already built the thing, but I'm thinking about putting another one together 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *deaconblues* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I'm gonna be using the γ1 as a USB DAC, does the lite configuration offer any significant advantage besides lower cost?_

 

Not really. There is one extra conversion from S/PDIF to I2S, but the CS8416 does a very good job.


----------



## nirvanaxp

how much could I expect to pay for parts for this project?


----------



## deaconblues

I'm not exactly sure how much I spent since I ordered other stuff from mouser and digikey at the same time as my γ1 parts, but I'd say it was probably around $100. This was for the full configuration without the custom faceplates. Those would add another $40 to the cost.

 The USB only configuration can be even cheaper, since you leave out the entire SPDIF processing section.


----------



## stoned22

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *deaconblues* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the suggestion. It looks like it's gonna be the same price for less functionality with that switch though. However, it turns out that I can just wait for mouser and digikey to get the proper switch in stock. I had already ordered all the parts for a full configuration (minus the switch of course), so I went ahead and put it together. I just tried it now, and luckily it turns out that without the switch there, USB is selected as the input. Since my computer doesn't have any SPDIF output (yet), I'm limited to using USB anyway.
 ._

 

So it defaults to USB to analog conversion without the switch? I'm waiting for the switch to restock too and was about to ask how to short the holes in the pcb where the switch would go to.

 What are C22D and C29D for?

 What is the minimum voltage that the capacitors at C24D. C25D and C22D must be rated for? I have 2 6.3V Elna Silmic 2 lying around, thinking of trying out various combinations like Silmic or Nichicon UKZ or 5uf Jantzen Z-Cap standard bypassed by 0.1uf Wima MKP10 or Spraque VitaminQ or Russian K42. Im not using the hammond case so no concerns about fitting inside.


----------



## helzerr

While looking into stoned22's question, something occurred to me: Am I mistaken, or would it be possible to eliminate the output coupling caps and R9D / R10D by connecting the audio output ground to VMID on the DAC? For S/PDIF only, as this could create a ground-loop in the case of USB. Probably only useful when driving a high-impedance load, in which case the output caps aren't such a big deal anyway. Perhaps in conjunction with a LMH6642MA buffer like the Mini³ ground channel?

 Could also be a bad idea as it would cause the DAC's ground to be negative ~AVDD/2, so the case would be "hot" relative to the ground of whatever the DAC was plugged into...

 I might have to do some testing to check the DC offset from VMID to the DAC outputs to see if this is feasible.


----------



## deaconblues

Yeah, you'll have USB selected as input without the switch installed. I just found a picture of the custom panels, and according to their label, USB is selected at the switch's center position. This corresponds to having nothing shorted.

AMB Laboratories


----------



## helzerr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *stoned22* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What are C22D and C29D for?_

 

From the Wolfson WM8501 datasheet: "VMID pin decoupled with 10uF and 0.1uF capacitors (smaller values may result in reduced performance)."


----------



## nirvanaxp

Thanks for the response. Thats expensive for the parts but I'm sure once the assembly is complete you have something that's worth quite a bit more...


----------



## manaox2

Since there are two y1 threads, posting this here too.

 Interesting tip, I tested out using an external battery pack for the Gamma1. I picked up two of the Xpal Harry II Lithium-Polymer USB chargers from sellout.woot.com for $10 each. Heres the specs:

 Power Capacity: 2000 mAh@5V
 Rated Output: DC 5V, Max 500 mA

 So far, its been powering my y1 on optical from the M-audio transit for about 20 hours and still showing a full charge on the indicator. I suspect I may get 50-60 hours on one charge (takes 2-3 hours to fully charge). _EDIT: Did the math, 2000mAh should only last about 20 hours at a 100mA load. _This is great for allowing me to use it with DVD, video games, or listening to music from room to room using the coaxial or toslink inputs. It also powers cellphones, mp3 players, and other portable devices. Battery power may be cleaner then a switching power supply, though this is twice the price for going portable. The cheapest now is $29.99 shipped on ebay, I have no affiliation with any sellers. I'm going to also see if it can play while charging next, its just taking so long for the darn thing to run out of juice.


----------



## jinp6301

I should have picked it up when it was on woot


----------



## manaox2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jinp6301* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I should have picked it up when it was on woot 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Newegg.com - Tekkeon MP1550 Black Mobile Power & Battery Charger - Cell Phone Accessories

 Maybe? With some rechargeable double A batteries, you could make this thing 5000maH and its replaceable batteries. My only concern is the flimsy adapter cable for it, but it would take a standard USB A to USB B (mini) cable too. Plugs for this can be bought too for a few dollars at walmart it seems.


----------



## stoned22

do you connect to the y1 using the USB connector? or does the battery pack have a connector for the 5v jack.

 I have one of these lying around A.C.Ryan | Empowering the Data Generation

 maybe it might work, i don't have a coaxial source to test it out.


----------



## manaox2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *stoned22* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_do you connect to the y1 using the USB connector? or does the battery pack have a connector for the 5v jack.

 I have one of these lying around A.C.Ryan | Empowering the Data Generation

 maybe it might work, i don't have a coaxial source to test it out._

 

Mini-USB. I have an adapter too, but this is so much more convenient.


----------



## amb

By sanding down only about 0.015" (0.4mm) off each side, the γ1 PCB will fit perfectly into a Box B2-080 series extruded aluminum case (without breaking the USB and the DAC portions apart). The result is the possibility of combining the Full configuration ("A") with the USB-to-S/PDIF converter ("C") in a single unit.

 I'll call the new configuration "Full++". This gives you all three switch-selectable inputs (USB/coax/optical) and analog output of the standard "Full" configuration, plus coax and optical _outputs_ when the selector switch is set to the "USB" position. You can thus use γ1 to feed another DAC (or a computer sound card, or anything that accepts S/PDIF coax or optical inputs), all while the γ1's built-in DAC is also active.

 To build this configuration, use the Box enclosure as specified (available from Newark and RS components, in various colors), and the combined parts list of the A and C configurations (see the γ1 website). Where a part is listed as required for both configurations, you don't need to double the quantity. You can also omit R7U and LEDU, because the SW1D switch illumination already provides power-on indication.

 All jumpers are set the same way as the standard Full config.

 Obviously, since the γ1 USB and DAC boards aren't physically plugged into each other in this configuration, you need to connect the two sides with wires. A 5-wire ribbon cable is all that is needed. Connect as follows:

 J2U pin 1 (VBUS) -> J4D pin 1
 J2U pin 2 (VCC) -> J4D pin 2
 J2U pin 3 (GND) -> J4D pin 3
 J3U pin 1 (GND) -> J5D pin 1
 J3U pin 5 (DATA) -> J5D pin 5

 See picture below for an example of how I did this with the ribbon cable on the bottom of the board. I soldered the ribbon cable directly to the pads on the top side without the use of any pin headers or receptacles.

 Pins 2, 3 and 4 of J3U and J5D are left unconnected because they are used for I²S in the Lite configuration ("B"), and are unused here.

 Note that you cannot combine the Lite config with the USB-to-S/PDIF converter in a similar manner because the PCM2707 speaks I²S there, thus there is no S/PDIF output for coax or optical.

 The Box B2-080 enclosure is larger than the Hammond 1455C80x, but still small enough to be called "very compact".

 I didn't do this in my build, but due to more internal space and larger panels, this configuration also opens up the possibility of panel-mounting 75Ω BNC jacks for the coax input and output (please use isolated jacks), as well as RCA analog output jacks.

 P.S. You can also use this casing solution for a standard Full ("A") or Lite ("B") config build. It will have no coax and optical outputs, but you may wish to do this for the panel-mounted jack options mentioned, or for the the extra case color choices. For the Lite config, you must use an 8-wire ribbon cable and connect all corresponding pads between J3U and J5D.

 I don't have the panels done yet, but here are some pics showing the completed γ1 Full++ PCB and the Box B2-080 enclosure in silver.


----------



## Beefy

That is so many different kinds of awesome. Great idea, AMB!


----------



## fordgtlover

Great adaptation, AMB.


----------



## manaox2

Very sleek looking too, can't wait to see the panels on it.


----------



## ruZZ.il

Awesome new mod. Little thing keeeeeps surprising!


----------



## Zsev

I got my lite config a week back. As crazy as this sounds, I cant tell the difference between this DAC and my NIE USB DAC (PCM2704) from china. 

 Tried many listening tests using my HD555 and even if theres a difference, it was barely discernable. Could be because of a low end amplifier Fiio E5 (bass boost is lovely on these) that I'm using or because i'm not good enough to hear the difference. 

 Tried Asio4all as well thinking it would improve sound but absolutely no difference as well. Any thoughts ? Am i doing it right ?


----------



## m1abrams

Well one thing to note is the source files. If they are low-bitrate files and/or typical rock that is not well produced then hearing a difference can be difficult because the source already has a good bit of noise.


----------



## jinp6301

IIRC, the fiio has a lot of distortion. Its most likely the amp.


----------



## Zsev

I ruled the source out as i have 320kbps songs and FLAC files. Could probably be the amp so I'm thinking of diy-ing the mini3 in the near future.


----------



## qusp

wow!! the new enclosure option is many kinds of wicked thats for sure. i've been looking for a solution for mine, because after all was said and done. the hammond I had thought would work will not fit my caps in without some serious manouvering; sounds great though even if not cased up properly, so this is the one for me. I hadnt looked into the box enclosures as I wrongly assumed they were all those cheapo acrillic things. I might go the next size up though, so I can build the battery pack inside the case hopefully I can get the case here at farnell; although likely they will be expensive there. 

 will the faceplates be available with RCA holes AMB?? for analogue output that is. as thats how mine is set up. although lying in a heap in a snaplock bag hehe. gotta love airwiring.


----------



## qusp

^^ another reason to do up panels first. although my configuration changed a couple of times along the way anyway. i'll have to epoxy the PCBs together again. depends on which case I go for though. again, nice job. this project has stretched on for ever with the meager amount of spare time i've had of late, which hasnt helped for kkeeping a train of thought. i'll have to spend some quality time with it in the days off i'm taking shortly.


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zsev* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tried many listening tests using my HD555 and even if theres a difference, it was barely discernable. Could be because of a low end amplifier Fiio E5 (bass boost is lovely on these) that I'm using or because i'm not good enough to hear the difference._

 

That isn't a great amp, and those aren't great phones. IMHO, the HD555 are just plain awful - slow and congested. So with a better amp and better phones, the differences might become more apparent.

 Alternatively, your ears might be easy to please. Perhaps the cheap DAC, amp and phones is all you need? Certainly makes life easier and cheaper......


----------



## lgn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That isn't a great amp, and those aren't great phones. IMHO, the HD555 are just plain awful - slow and congested. So with a better amp and better phones, the differences might become more apparent.

 Alternatively, your ears might be easy to please. Perhaps the cheap DAC, amp and phones is all you need? Certainly makes life easier and cheaper......_

 

Gonna have to agree on this one, you might need upgrading your gear for better results.


----------



## No_One411

I've been having a little problem with my Gamma Y1 lite. When I go to unplug it from my USB port, it stops all sound coming from my computer. I have to restart my computer everytime to get the sound to return. Is there a setting to revert back to Speakers after the USB is unplugged? This isn't a "big" issue, I would just prefer not to have to restart my computer everytime I need an open USB port. 

 If nothing works, then I guess I'll just leave my Gamma plugged in...unless there's a bad consequence to that.


----------



## smeggy

Leaving the gamma plugged in won't do any harm.

 Your problem is that to use the gamma you have to set the USB device (gamma) as the soundcard, when you unplug it, the computer is still set to the gamma and not your internal card so no sound comes out. You can open your media player prefs and tell it to use the internal card instead, then you shouldn't need to reboot, maybe restart the player.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *No_One411* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been having a little problem with my Gamma Y1 lite. When I go to unplug it from my USB port, it stops all sound coming from my computer. I have to restart my computer everytime to get the sound to return. Is there a setting to revert back to Speakers after the USB is unplugged? This isn't a "big" issue, I would just prefer not to have to restart my computer everytime I need an open USB port. 

 If nothing works, then I guess I'll just leave my Gamma plugged in...unless there's a bad consequence to that._


----------



## No_One411

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *smeggy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Leaving the gamma plugged in won't do any harm.

 Your problem is that to use the gamma you have to set the USB device (gamma) as the soundcard, when you unplug it, the computer is still set to the gamma and not your internal card so no sound comes out. You can open your media player prefs and tell it to use the internal card instead, then you shouldn't need to reboot, maybe restart the player._

 

Thanks Smeggy!


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *smeggy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Leaving the gamma plugged in won't do any harm.

 Your problem is that to use the gamma you have to set the USB device (gamma) as the soundcard, when you unplug it, the computer is still set to the gamma and not your internal card so no sound comes out. You can open your media player prefs and tell it to use the internal card instead, then you shouldn't need to reboot, maybe restart the player._

 

Another solution (in Windows XP anyway, didn't try this on Vista), is to open the Control Panel -> Sound, Speech & Audio Devices -> Sound & Audio Devices, then in the "Audio" tab, set the default audio device back to your internal card.

 You would have to set your media player to use the default device, and restart it.


----------



## FallenAngel

I'm planning to build one of these and am a little confused with the jumper settings.

 This is what I want to do:

 Single USB Input and USB Powered (I think this implies "Lite Config")
 Coax S/PDIF output (which is where the jumper settings are getting confusing)

 I will not be using the standard Hammond 1455C80x case, and will not have the coax s/pdif jack, nor the analog output jack board-mounted.

 Will the pulse transformer (T1U) get in the way of anything on the DAC board?

 If I want the PCM2707 outputting I2S to the DAC instead of S/PDIF, can I wire a switch to select between them? Or am I going overboard and should simply output S/PDIF to both? This would probably make things easier.

 I'm hoping that this config still can be USB powered.

 Thank in advance.


----------



## MisterX

Quote:


 Will the pulse transformer (T1U) get in the way of anything on the DAC board? 
 

 Depends how you mount the boards.
 If you separate the boards with the intention of "stacking them" then yes, the transformer will interfere with the components on the DAC board (you could use extra tall spacers between the boards as a work around)
 It's a non issue if mount the boards side by side as amb did in post # 639



  Quote:


 If I want the PCM2707 outputting I2S to the DAC instead of S/PDIF, can I wire a switch to select between them? 
 

You could if you had a 6P2T switch but even then you still have to plug and unplug it from the host to change "modes"
 FWIW the S/PDIF output on the USB board will not output useable data when the PCM2707 is configured to output I2s data so....


 The jumper settings would be the same as a full DAC build, just sort out what parts you don't want and go from there.


----------



## jinp6301

MisterX, are you going to be offering the Full++ version anytime soon?


----------



## MisterX

Not exactly a soup question when posted in the open forum, now is it?


----------



## FallenAngel

Looks like a little more hassle than it's worth for me (only really had the single purpose for the S/PDIF output and I got that covered with something else).

 Looks like I'll just be building the Lite config with a PPAS in same chassis. Now if only I could power the PPAS from USB and not screw up virtual ground from the Gamma1.


----------



## No_One411

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Another solution (in Windows XP anyway, didn't try this on Vista), is to open the Control Panel -> Sound, Speech & Audio Devices -> Sound & Audio Devices, then in the "Audio" tab, set the default audio device back to your internal card.

 You would have to set your media player to use the default device, and restart it._

 

Argh, the problem is here again. I switch from USB Audio DAC to my Speakers. But the sound still only comes from the USB. It works if I restart Foobar/iTunes, but I would rather have a solution that doesn't require me to restart my programs.


----------



## amb

Unfortunately, restarting the media player app is almost always necessary. It doesn't "know" that he rug has been yanked beneath it.


----------



## No_One411

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Unfortunately, restarting the media player app is almost always necessary. It doesn't "know" that he rug has been yanked beneath it._

 

ah ok. Oh well, I'll live with it. Its not like my life has ended or anything. Thanks.


----------



## m1abrams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Unfortunately, restarting the media player app is almost always necessary. It doesn't "know" that he rug has been yanked beneath it._

 

You could try using ASIO4ALL - Universal ASIO Driver ASIO4All. I use that with mediamonkey (Note with media monkey you also need to grab an ASIO dll plugin). I swap between my DAC and soundcard all the time because I move the gamma1 from work and home and do not have to restart my media player. This is because the ASIO plugin talks to ASIO4ALL and not a device. ASIO4ALL then handles which device to use. Works rather nicely.


----------



## moophus

just FYI,

 I finished my build today and posted a small blurb on my blog.

HERE

 thanks AMB labs for a fun project and an awesome product!


----------



## amb

Re: New γ1 configuration: Full++

 My new front and rear panels are here.


----------



## smeggy

Very sexy indeed Ti, one question...

 If I chose, would this case fit a gamma lite and a mini3 in the same layout rather than the full dac++?

 I've been trying to find a case to just fit both lits and mini3 boards side by side like this so Marshall can put me one together. End plates aside that is, I'd need to custom them.


----------



## amb

I don't see any reason why it couldn't be done, but it would take some creativity to "join" the Mini³ and γ1 DAC boards at their edges. Also, the γ1 USB board would not be resting in a case slot on one side, so standoffs will be needed to support it.

 Btw this is true for a γ1 Full + Mini³ combo too.


----------



## smeggy

Great news, thanks. I'm sure I can come up with something to glue them together with a support in the middle


----------



## dBel84

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Re: New γ1 configuration: Full++

 My new front and rear panels are here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

very nice amb, I really need to build one of these ..dB


----------



## digger945

^It was something else for me to build this and then plug it into my laptop and have the popup screen saying "installing device drivers for your new device", and see the NKK switch diode change colors. A whole nother level of excitement. Sounds great too. I can't wait to build a full on desktop DAC.


----------



## rush340

Yeah, the price quote I got from MisterX for a prebuilt was almost exactly what my BOM came out to. I'm really tempted to build it anyways for the experience and satisfaction, but it makes it so much harder when MisterX is building them for us for so cheap! Thanks to him for the amazing price though!


----------



## MisterX

A Gamma 1 Plus version in black....











 With 470uF ouput caps....






 It drives my SR225s pretty well but there is one small problem. 






 (it gets very loud!!!)


----------



## smeggy

Excellent work, It looks hot!


----------



## bmwpowere36m3

Are there any alternatives to Q1/2D (2N3904BU) at Mouser as there currently out of stock? Thanks.


----------



## MisterX

There are roughly 40 of them. 

 Try # 863-2N3904G


----------



## bmwpowere36m3

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MisterX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There are roughly 40 of them. 

 Try # 863-2N3904G_

 

Thanks. 40 of what, the "backordered" ones?


----------



## MisterX

There are roughly 40 available replacements for the "2N3904BU" at Mouser.


----------



## individual6891

Fabulous work on the F++

 Is there any chance of dimensions / .fpd for the panels? Would love this!

 Also noting that there's plenty of space in the empty USB board area ...potentially RCA jacks on the rear!


----------



## amb

I will add the panel dimensions and other info of the Full++ config to the γ1 website very soon.


----------



## bmwpowere36m3

I got all my parts in for my build, but have seemed to forgot an extra cap (C22D, 647-UES1E220MEM Nichicon ES 22uF 25V). If anyone has one, I'll happily pay for it. Thanks.


----------



## funch

In AMB's parts list, the description for U9D lists101-315, but the Mouser
 part # is 101-300.


----------



## helzerr

That took some attention to detail to find that oversight!

 It appears to be essentially the same part, just a slight difference in the VTRIP trip point.

 I hadn't noticed the discrepancy, and built mine with the 101-300 part. Seems to work fine.


----------



## funch

helzerr;5705866 said:
			
		

> That took some attention to detail to find that oversight!
> 
> Yah, the result of being terminally anal!


----------



## MisterX

It's not an oversight. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The MCP100-315DI/TO was not available at Mouser when we put the parts list together so we picked a replacement for you and adjusted U9D so it would match.


 If you wish...The MCP100-315DI/TO is now avilable at Mouser, the part numbers are: 

 579-MCP100-315DI/TO
 579-MCP101-315DI/TO


----------



## bmwpowere36m3

Well I got my gamma working last night 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sounds great, currently testing it with a set of Vishay/Sprague OS-CONS. Initial impressions are that the sound is a little recessed and nasally, bypassing them with Vishay/Roederstein MKT and WIMA MKS doesn't make a noticeable difference.

 Also if anyone has a set of Nichicon ES 22uF caps, let me know.


----------



## wiatrob

My left channel output is gone. With USB input, left is very crackly, right is fine. If I pull the USB board and use COAX in with external power, silence on left and right is fine.

 Power test good, and the output jack is good (continuity and low .25 ohm to the caps.)

 Ideas? TIA!


----------



## amb

Wiatrob, try reflowing the solder joint at the WM8501's left channel output pin.


----------



## jamess71

Does anybody have an extra Toshiba fiber-optic receiver around? I destroyed mine removing it after installing it in the transmitter position. doooh

 Just checked digikey and they are back in stock. 

 Are there any worthwhile parts upgrades I should do since I'll have it apart? At the moment it's the standard built kit from Jeff. I've been very happy with it although maybe a bit on the bright side for my taste.


----------



## amb

jamess71, you must be confused because Jeff does not supply a kit for the γ1.
 Anyway, the only parts worth experimenting with are the output coupling caps. Opinions vary on those, so changing them might only be a "sidegrade" rather than an upgrade.


----------



## jamess71

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_jamess71, you must be confused because Jeff does not supply a kit for the γ1.
 Anyway, the only parts worth experimenting with are the output coupling caps. Opinions vary on those, so changing them might only be a "sidegrade" rather than an upgrade._

 

Thanks Amb. I was confused, the last kit I got from Jeff was the Bijou.  I have Elna RFS, caps in there now, I'll leave em be. Thanks again for an Awesome dac and design.


----------



## wiatrob

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wiatrob, try reflowing the solder joint at the WM8501's left channel output pin._

 

Joint looked good but I reflowed anyway. Good connection from top of pin to C26 -- Bad WM8501?


----------



## amb

Wiatrob, if you've ruled out a bad connection, then the only possibility left is the WM8501 itself.


----------



## wiatrob

Thanks,Ti, I'll report back on the fix soon...


----------



## TzeYang

So guise, I was being a klutz and I forgot to order a piece of X1U for the USB board.

 I don't think it's wise for me to get it online again (shipping fee sucks) just for that part alone so which of the following is a good substitute for the X1U? (just pick the best alternative out of these options)

 AVX HC49SF 12MHz 12pF
AVX|HC49SFWB12000H0PESZZ|CRYSTAL, HC-49, 12MHZ | Farnell Malaysia
 EUROQUARTZ 12MHz 18pF
EUROQUARTZ|12.000MHZ HC49/4H/30/50/40/18PF/ATF|CRYSTAL, THT, 12.000MHZ | Farnell Malaysia
 IQD FREQUENCY LF A158K 12MHz 30pF
IQD FREQUENCY PRODUCTS|LF A158K|CRYSTAL, 12MHZ | Farnell Malaysia
 AKER 12MHz 18pF
AKER|CA-12.000-18-3050-X|CRYSTAL, HC49/US, THT, 12.000MHZ | Farnell Malaysia
 CITIZEN AMERICA 12MHz 18pF
CITIZEN AMERICA|HC49US12.000MABJ-UB|CRYSTAL, 12M, 18PF CL, HC49/4H | Farnell Malaysia

 I don't know much about digital circuits but it seems to me that the first option seems to be the best one to get as an alternative. Will I suffer any loss in performance by using any of the options above?

 Thank You!


----------



## amb

The spec'ed crystal is 20pF with temperature stability of 30ppm, so whichever is closest to that would work best. That said, I could simply send you one if you don't mind the wait. PM me for details.


----------



## TzeYang

thanks amb. I sent you a PM about it.
 This is a gift intended for a friend before he leaves the country for australia.


----------



## individual6891

great work on updating the website


----------



## individual6891

Is it possible to install 2x phono jacks in the area marked pink below? I don't suppose you know off the top of your head what's the recommended distance off the bottom?

 Also, what program do you use to draw your dimension diags? I was going to mock something up to double check


----------



## ShinyFalcon

I hope this drawing will be of some use for you:





 If you wanted vertical clearance, I'm not sure. What do these phono jacks look like?


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *individual6891* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it possible to install 2x phono jacks in the area marked pink below? I don't suppose you know off the top of your head what's the recommended distance off the bottom?_

 

This depends on what jacks you have in mind.

  Quote:


 Also, what program do you use to draw your dimension diags? 
 

I printed from Front Panel Designer into a PDF printer (file), then on Linux, captured the image from adobe reader into a PPM file using xgrasc, then did all the drawing in xpaint, and saved as a PNG file.


----------



## king.mark

Is there a difference in output quality between the lite and the full version when using USB?
 I noticed that the AMB site states that in lite config the USB board outputs I²S and in full config it outputs S/PDIF. 
 So in full config the digital to analog is done by the better chip?


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *king.mark* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there a difference in output quality between the lite and the full version when using USB?_

 

Not really, at least none that I could measure or hear.

  Quote:


 I noticed that the AMB site states that in lite config the USB board outputs I²S and in full config it outputs S/PDIF. 
 So in full config the digital to analog is done by the better chip? 
 

In both configurations, the D/A conversion is done by the Wolfson WM8501 chip.

 In the lite config, the path looks like this (bold face denotes chip, italic denotes data format):

 USB -> *PCM2707* -> _I2S_ -> *WM8501* -> _analog out_

 In the full config it looks like this:

 (When the input selector switch is set to "USB")
 USB -> *PCM2707* -> _S/PDIF_ -> *CS8416* -> _I2S_ -> *WM8501* -> _analog out_

 (When the input selector switch is set to "Coaxial")
 coax -> *pulse transformer* -> _S/PDIF_ -> *CS8416* -> _I2S_ -> *WM8501* -> _analog out_

 (When the input selector switch is set to "Optical")
 optical -> *TORX147PL* -> _S/PDIF_ -> *CS8416* -> _I2S_ -> *WM8501* -> _analog out_

 The CS8416 chip serves as an input receiver that allows you to select between three S/PDIF sources (switch operated), that's why in the full config the PCM2707 chip needs to output S/PDIF. The CS8416 outputs I2S to the WM8501 DAC.


----------



## koto-in

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *king.mark* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there a difference in output quality between the lite and the full version when using USB?
 I noticed that the AMB site states that in lite config the USB board outputs I²S and in full config it outputs S/PDIF. 
 So in full config the digital to analog is done by the better chip?_

 

With USB Audio, it is generally believed that "direct to I2S" is a better solution than S/PDIF conversion, however in the case of the Gamma 1, the "lite" configuration skips the clock recovery step that the CS8416 chip provides.


----------



## wein07

Any reviews yet?


----------



## linuxworks

in the y1, as I understand it, you have 2 choices for clock recovery; one via the pcm chip (its a receiver, afterall) and one via the cirrus 8416 chip (the spdif side of things).

 if you convert usb to i2s and then send that to the dac, you've recovered clock.

 if you convert spdif to i2s, you also recover the clock.

 in fact, you can't NOT recover the clock 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 every dac has to (duh) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 you can also opt to config the y1 so that the pcm chip converts to spdif and then sends that to the upper board.

 I've not heard any diff between them. all the ways work equivalently.


----------



## king.mark

Thanks for the answers and explanation.
 It's a relief to hear that the lite version sounds as good as the full version.

 I only had a chance to compare the Gamma 1 to my notebooks Realtek HDaudio out and the Gamma 1 is much better in every possible way. Much cleaner, way more details and better frequency response, it's a night and day difference.


----------



## TzeYang

Just finished building a Gamma1.

 Sweet sweet fidelity. This is the first time I've heard anything like it. It even sounds better than the WM8740. Good warmth, low noise, airy soundstage. It's like sitting in a EDIT:japanese hot spring enjoying yourself.

 Thanks to MisterX for his generous share of his Mouser BOM, and Amb for being so quick to send me an oscillator so i can complete this in time for my friend lol.


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TzeYang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_JSweet sweet fidelity. This is the first time I've heard anything like it. It even sounds better than the WM8740. Good warmth, low noise, airy soundstage. It's like sitting in a EDIT:japanese hot spring enjoying yourself._

 

I am very glad you liked it. I think it sounds great too, and it certainly didn't disappoint anyone at CanJam. Some people who had not heard the WM8501 seem to thumb their noses at this chip, probably due to its low price, but as I said before, γ1 could stand with the big boys and not embarass itself. Even better than the WM8740? I haven't yet made a direct comparison but hopefully will do so soon against the WM8741 and WM8742.


----------



## fishski13

are there any issues running 4" or so of wire from the SW1D solder pads to a front-panel rotary selector switch to select between S/PDIF and Optical? i have a 12 position, 2 deck/2 pole per deck Grayhill and am looking for the easiest way to do this. the output pads would be wired to another pole on the same deck where the source selection is made. the other deck is for the LED selector circuit. i made the mistake of assuming that SW1D switched the outputs, not the receiver chip.

 thanks.


----------



## amb

fishski13, there is no problem using a remote switch, but all you need is a SPDT switch for this purpose. Looks like you aren't using the γ1 USB board, so an SPDT on-none-on switch will do. If you will have USB, then use SPDT on-off-on.


----------



## fishski13

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_fishski13, there is no problem using a remote switch, but all you need is a SPDT switch for this purpose. Looks like you aren't using the γ1 USB board, so an SPDT on-none-on switch will do. If you will have USB, then use SPDT on-off-on._

 

thanks Ti. my chassis is finished, so i need to stick with the rotary, using only 4 positions for source selection - 2 for analog and 1 for the coaxial and 1 for optical. i just wanted to make sure i could use a remote switch without any electrical voodoo.

 tested the off-board PS and i'm getting 4.979V from the LM7805 - yeah hoo!!! hoping to get most of this project wired up tonight. i can't wait to hear the y-1!!!


----------



## fishski13

the CK2III/y1 is up and running. i had a ground noise issue that resolved once i lifted the output ground on the y1 board. the y1 board is isolated on plastic threaded standoffs, with only the (-) power referenced to star ground at the LM7805 and CK2III PS. 

 sounds great!!! thanks for making this project possible Ti.


----------



## fishski13

well, still having some noise issues. dead silent up to 2 o'clock on the 50K pot before the hum/noise becomes audible. this is when either the coaxial or optic input is selected - the analog RCA inputs are dead silent when selected. insane listening volume is reached by 11 o'clock, so the noise isn't an issue while listening to music.

 -LM7805 regulator is tied to the CK2III off-board PS ground. the ground from the off-board PS ties directly at one point only at star ground of the CK2III board. the 5V DC powering the y1 is the pair of twisted red/green wires that runs along the back of the amp.
 -star ground is not directly attached to the IEC safety ground. 
 -the output ground of the y1 is not connected to ground. as per my previous post, i had noise at all positions on the pot when output ground connected.

 is the LM7805 picking up noise from the TX?

 i've tried alligator clipping at various ground points off the y-1 without success. i also have bits for a ground-loop breaker.

 attached are some pics.


----------



## amb

fishski13, can you describe the characteristic sound of the noise? Is it a hum or buzz, or is it white noise? If it's white noise, is it present only when you select an unused input (I.e., you select coax or optical, but there is no source connected, or the source is switched off)?

 The γ1 has no output muting, and the CS8416 receiver chip seem to produce a bit of noise when you've selected an unused input. The noise should go away, though, when a source is connected and has played at least once.


----------



## fishski13

it's a hum. i have a Rives Audio cd that generates tones for speaker/room placement. the 63 hz and 125 hz tone sound pretty close in frequency to the hum i'm hearing.

 the analog inputs appear normal:
 RCA #1 - connected to Benchmark DAC1 analog out = dead silent along the pot travel.
 RCA #2 - not connected to any source = faint white noise at 4 o'clock.

 coaxial and optical - connected to Oppo or Pioneer transport, but not both at the same time. the unconnected input has a lot of white noise and hum starting at 12 o'clock. the connected input has the hum that starts at 2 o'clock, but very little, if any, white noise.

 also getting some "switching transients" when pushing track selection buttoms on the cd players.


----------



## TeraHz

I've been trying to get this spdif transmitter TOTX147PL , and at mouser it is with 12 week lead time, at newark there is a $20 handling fee because it comes from the UK, and digikey does not carry it anymore - made obsolete by the manufacturer and cannot offer any replacements. I looked at toshiba's website and cannot find a replacement.

 Is there a reasonable substitute part, or does anyone have any left? I'm looking to buy 2 and I don't want to pay $30 for a $3 part...


----------



## wiatrob

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wiatrob, if you've ruled out a bad connection, then the only possibility left is the WM8501 itself._

 

It was indeed the WM8501. replaced it and it's all better. But it wasn't fun.


----------



## fishski13

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TeraHz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been trying to get this spdif transmitter TOTX147PL , and at mouser it is with 12 week lead time, at newark there is a $20 handling fee because it comes from the UK, and digikey does not carry it anymore - made obsolete by the manufacturer and cannot offer any replacements. I looked at toshiba's website and cannot find a replacement.

 Is there a reasonable substitute part, or does anyone have any left? I'm looking to buy 2 and I don't want to pay $30 for a $3 part..._

 


 i'm putting together a BOM for USB-to-S/PDIF only option. i wonder if this would work?: Digi-Key - 425-2605-5-ND (Sharp Microelectronics - GP1FMV31TK0F)

 back to my ground problem, there's a reduction in the hum when both the optical and coaxial outputs from the Oppo are connected - optical to the y-1 and coaxial to my Benckmark DAC1. 

 the switching transients were related to the fact that with the Pioneer cdp connected (i was trying to find out if it was an issue with the Oppo), it happened to be plugged into a different outlet on a different house AC circuit. no issues when plugged into the same outlet/power strip. 

 i'm wondering if the ground problem is caused by the fact that my LM7805 ground reference is "upstream" from the CK2III PS ground and tied in at the PS ground before going to star ground? i'll try a ground loop breaker before i rip apart the PS board.


----------



## wiatrob

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TeraHz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there a reasonable substitute part, or does anyone have any left? I'm looking to buy 2 and I don't want to pay $30 for a $3 part..._

 

 I accidentally bought TX147PLs instead of receiver's for my y1 - if anybody wants 'em please PM me. I have three...


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fishski13* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i'm putting together a BOM for USB-to-S/PDIF only option. i wonder if this would work?: Digi-Key - 425-2605-5-ND (Sharp Microelectronics - GP1FMV31TK0F)_

 

Yes, this one would work and the pin-outs are the same as the TOTX147PL, but the mounting holes on the board for this one are not compatible. This one doesn't use the snap-in plastic pegs and the two unused pins the TOTX unit has, but has two side-mounting tabs for which there are no holes on the PCB.

 I'll check into the availability situation on the TOTX147PL (and TORX147PL) and report back. Meanwhile, those who are building γ1 USB-to-S/PDIF and full++ configurations might want to get together and make a combined order from Newark to split the surcharge.

  Quote:


 back to my ground problem, there's a reduction in the hum when both the optical and coaxial outputs from the Oppo are connected - optical to the y-1 and coaxial to my Benckmark DAC1. 

 the switching transients were related to the fact that with the Pioneer cdp connected (i was trying to find out if it was an issue with the Oppo), it happened to be plugged into a different outlet on a different house AC circuit. no issues when plugged into the same outlet/power strip. 

 i'm wondering if the ground problem is caused by the fact that my LM7805 ground reference is "upstream" from the CK2III PS ground and tied in at the PS ground before going to star ground? i'll try a ground loop breaker before i rip apart the PS board. 
 

It's hard to figure out just what's going on in your setup, but this is what I would do:

 - If you're using the +15V from the CK²III board and dropping it down to 5V with the 7805 regulator, then the 7805's ground should be tied directly to the CK²III's star ground, and run the +5V output to the γ1.
 - Run one ground wire from the γ1 to the CK²III star ground (it shouldn't matter where you connect this on the γ1, as long as it's securely tied to its ground plane (the ground pad for the output jack is a good place for this).
 - Isolate the USB connector's shell ground from the case, or you might run into a ground loop situation even if you use a ground loop breaker.


----------



## fishski13

thanks Ti.


----------



## amb

OK, here is the scoop. Toshiba is obsoleting the TOTX147PL with a "last buy" date of 8/31/2010. That's more than a year away, I don't know why Digikey has prematurely discontinued it. I will redesign the next batch of γ1 boards to also accommodate the Sharp GP1FMV31TK0F transmitter (and GP1FMV31RK0F receiver, even though there is not yet any indication that the TORX147PL would become obsolete as well).

 Meanwhile, you can make the Sharp unit fit the existing γ1 PCB by drilling two 2mm diameter holes for the mounting tabs, scrape away a little of the soldermask on the bottom side ground plane around those holes, and solder the tabs to the ground plane. EDIT: For U5U, doing this drilling will break the bottom-side trace that runs from R7U to LEDU. If you're going to populate R7U and LEDU, you should cut away more of that trace around the hole, so that when you solder the GP1FMV31TK0F's mounting tabs it won't short the LED trace to the ground plane. You should then solder a separate thin wire (30 AWG is enough) to go from R7U to LEDU.


----------



## fishski13

the hummmm is history per Ti's grounding recommendation! i still hear some soft/well-attenuated white noise starting at 3 o'clock on the pot. none of the hook-up wiring is shielded and i have yet to put the aluminum cover on the chassis. as i said before, 11 o'clock is really loud so any residual noise shouldn't be an issue.


----------



## TeraHz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fishski13* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i'm putting together a BOM for USB-to-S/PDIF only option. 
 <snip>_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wiatrob* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_if anybody wants 'em please PM me. I have three..._

 

Ffishski13, if you need only one, I can have 2 and you can have the third from waitrob? Otherwise if there are more people, we can make a group buy from newark. If we get ~ 30 (more than $100) they will waive the $20 handling fee. 

 Anyone else interested?


----------



## fishski13

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TeraHz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ffishski13, if you need only one, I can have 2 and you can have the third from waitrob? Otherwise if there are more people, we can make a group buy from newark. If we get ~ 30 (more than $100) they will waive the $20 handling fee. 

 Anyone else interested?_

 

i'm not going to be using the speced Hammond enclosure, i'm builing my own. Sharp has a chassis mount transmitter that i think will work for me mounted remote with short leads. i'd rather let someone who wants/needs the speced Hammond enclosure to have dibs on waitrob's generous offer. of course if there's no takers....


----------



## amb

If you chassis-mount the fiber-optic modules and air-wire them to the board, you should add a 0.1uF multilayer ceramic decoupling cap across VCC and GND, right at the module's pins.


----------



## amb

y2 (gamma2) project is out of the bag...

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/gamma-2-dac-430793/


----------



## smeggy

woohoo!


----------



## Billyk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TeraHz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ffishski13, if you need only one, I can have 2 and you can have the third from waitrob? Otherwise if there are more people, we can make a group buy from newark. If we get ~ 30 (more than $100) they will waive the $20 handling fee. 

 Anyone else interested?_

 

I would be interested in two. I only really need one though. If we were going to buy a bunch as a group I would go for two.


----------



## jh0n

One of my obsolete IC sources pointed me to 5 pieces of TORX147PL remaining at NuHorizons. I bought the lot, and have 3 that I'll send out at the cost of UPS shipping - roughly $5. One as a backup. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'll have them tomorrow.

 Also - first time poster, and I'd really like to thank Ti for an awesome product, and a painless purchase.


----------



## Billyk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jh0n* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One of my obsolete IC sources pointed me to 5 pieces of TORX147PL remaining at NuHorizons. I bought the lot, and have 3 that I'll send out at the cost of UPS shipping - roughly $5. One as a backup. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll have them tomorrow.

 Also - first time poster, and I'd really like to thank Ti for an awesome product, and a painless purchase. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I would really love two of them, but don't want to be piggy and take one if there is a crowd waiting for them.


----------



## amb

I just talked to Digikey about TORX147PL, they are currently out of stock but are expecting about 2500 pieces to come in late September. That's a long wait, so I suggest those who are building γ1 Full or Full++, S/PDIF only configurations to pool tegether orders from an alternate vendor. Newark can get them from their Farnell UK affiliate but there is a flat service charge. Those in non-US countries can get them directly from Farnell.


----------



## amb

Just an interest poll... how many people here need TORX147PL and how many pieces? As I said in the previous post, this part is in stock at Farnell UK, and can be ordered through Newark with an added $20 flat fee, so if there is sufficient quantity then the handling fee won't be too bad. Newark can get it delivered in 7-10 business days.


----------



## m1abrams

I am down for 1 TORX147PL


----------



## ShinyFalcon

I might go for one but I may not need it until I find a need for USB, which will lead me to build another γ1 (lite version). Coaxial is readily available for me anyways.

 Are optical receivers/transmitters somehow becoming scarce to find? Any issues with commercial audio companies (competition against DIY)?


----------



## jar

I'm going to need about 6. I bought a bunch of boards and front panels and the rest of the amb store parts for a group of friends and then the project got back burnered. I'm planning to order the mouser/digikey stuff in the next week or two.


----------



## Qonmus

Sorry if this is considered a thread-crap, but is this a good starter project? I have basically no soldering skills to speak of, but I am eager to get into DIY before I really start shelling out the dough and thought a new source would be a good place to start (currently using a DAC with PCM2705).


----------



## m1abrams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Qonmus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry if this is considered a thread-crap, but is this a good starter project? I have basically no soldering skills to speak of, but I am eager to get into DIY before I really start shelling out the dough and thought a new source would be a good place to start (currently using a DAC with PCM2705)._

 

Probably not the best 1st project for someone with no soldering experience. Some of the chips are pretty difficult to solder due to the small pitch surface mount.

 The Mini^3 amp would be a good 1st project it is not too expensive part wise and has just 2 smd chips to solder which make it a little challenging and gives you the experience to do the gamma1.

 However a cmoy is probably the best 1st project, very simple, very cheap and allows for a lot of tweaking.


----------



## ShinyFalcon

The γ1 was my second project after a botched BantamDAC, and while it is slightly easier, there are around a hundred parts to solder. It does get repetitive but the build is pretty straightforward. The most difficult IC to solder would probably be U1D, which has two sets of four pins that are approximately 5mm in width altogether.


----------



## amc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm going to need about 6. I bought a bunch of boards and front panels and the rest of the amb store parts for a group of friends and then the project got back burnered. I'm planning to order the mouser/digikey stuff in the next week or two._

 


 I am in need of 2 of these TORX147PLFT-ND , so if a bulk order from Farnell is placed count me in. Thanks much.


----------



## m1abrams

well I discovered that if I order straight from farnell and my order amount is over $20 I do not encounter the $20 fee. So if you need the part and have other items that you can get from farnell that total over $20 you do not get charged extra.


----------



## jamess71

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just an interest poll... how many people here need TORX147PL and how many pieces? As I said in the previous post, this part is in stock at Farnell UK, and can be ordered through Newark with an added $20 flat fee, so if there is sufficient quantity then the handling fee won't be too bad. Newark can get it delivered in 7-10 business days._

 


 I need one. Thanks


----------



## amb

As m1abrams said, ordering directly from Farnell is a good solution if you need other items. They have both the TORX147PL and TOTX147PL in stock.


----------



## TeraHz

Hi,

 I just tried my y1 under os x for the first time after building it, and noticed the volume control (master) is ignored. I read the PCM2707 data sheet and I noticed that master volume control is not supported, so does that mean there is no way to reduce the volume of applications that do not have volume control (like mail, icq etc) ?

 Also, according to the data sheet master mute is supported, but still os x is unable to control it. 

 Is that the case, or am I missing something?

 Thanks


----------



## ruZZ.il

You can reduce the volume of system sounds, which does take effect. (sound pref>sound effects). You could also route through an application called soundflower, and your system volume control will work. 
 You could also route some apps through preferences if you want to get them out of your sound path.
 I'm not quiet sure how you'd go about individually lowering apps volumes relative to your tunes though. maybe wiretap but I dont remember and haven't got it in now...


----------



## m1abrams

Ok so I just realized something I did that others may not be doing when trying to order from Farnell in the U.S.
 I googled Farnell which the first hit took me to a country selection page where I selected U.S. which took me to Farnell Export


----------



## funch

Ship date for TORX147PLFT to Digikey is 7/31/2009.

 I'd be interested in one each of the TORX/TOTX parts 
 if there's a group buy from Newark/Farnell.


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *funch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ship date for TORX147PLFT to Digikey is 7/31/2009_

 

Hmm, where did you find this info? When I spoke to Digikey on the phone just 2 days ago I was told 9/30. If it's really 7/31 then it's not too bad.

 EDIT: I see now, if I add some TORX147PLFT-ND to my cart then it has a link to show me the lead-time, which says 7/31. I hope it's real.


----------



## funch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ EDIT: I see now, if I add some TORX147PLFT-ND to my cart then it has a link to show me the lead-time, which says 7/31. I hope it's real._

 


 Me too, but who knows?


----------



## digger945

I don't get the same results for the transmitter, says Obsolete and wont let me put it into the cart.

 EDIT: I sent an email asking for the status on these Toshiba parts.


----------



## amb

digger945, TOTX147PL is obsolete. The only viable source at this time is Farnell, who still has stock. The next revision of the y1 PCB will support the Sharp GP1FMV31TK0F, which is also out of stock at Digikey, and they told me that the lead-time is 15 weeks.

 EDIT: Or, you could use this transmitter:
http://www.sysconcept.ca/product_inf...roducts_id=159


----------



## TeraHz

One more question. Was anyone able to use the optical out of y1 under mac in pass through mode? That is , to pass the sound through the y1 so that a dts enabled dac can decode the audio?

 I've been trying with VLC and Cog but still I cannot force DTS music to go out of y1.


 Any suggestions?


----------



## amb

There is no "pass through" mode on the y1. The S/PDIF outputs (config C or F) are only active for USB input, and the PCM2707 receiver chip does not handle non-PCM audio streams.


----------



## MrSlim

Hey Ti,
 I'm planning on building a full version of the gamma 1 for the gamma 2 proto phase. Since I don't really need the optical input, can I just skip installing it and just use the coax input for S/PDIF? If so, is there anything else I can omit from the circuit ? 
 There seems to be a general consensus that there is no real avantage for one (coax) vs the other (optical) or vice versa from a SQ perspective. 

 I'm still having a debate with myself over whether I should get one anyway, just for completeness sake (say, for resale at some point). 

 JD


----------



## funch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_digger945, TOTX147PL is obsolete. The only viable source at this time is Farnell, who still has stock. The next revision of the y1 PCB will support the Sharp GP1FMV31TK0F, which is also out of stock at Digikey, and they told me that the lead-time is 15 weeks.

 EDIT: Or, you could use this transmitter:
Sys Concept Inc. Fiber Optic Products Attenuators, Patch cords, Laser Diodes, Connectors, MP3, Toslink, Hybrid Adapter and more: 16Mbps Optical Transmitter (Toslink)_

 

Will the next revision still support the TOTX147 also?


----------



## amb

MrSlim, yes you can omit the TORX147PL (and L1D and C12D) if you don't want optical input. I would also install a wire jumper between the TORX147PL's output pad and GND pad.

 As for advantage of coax vs. optical, the popular opinion is that (properly implemented) coax is better, but having both input types give you the maximum flexibility with difference sources, and lets you connect one of each type (and USB too) and switch between them.


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *funch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Will the next revision still support the TOTX147 also?_

 

Yes.


----------



## MrSlim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_MrSlim, yes you can omit the TORX147PL (and L1D and C12D) if you don't want optical input. I would also install a wire jumper between the TORX147PL's output pad and GND pad.

 As for advantage of coax vs. optical, the popular opinion is that (properly implemented) coax is better, but having both input types give you the maximum flexibility with difference sources, and lets you connect one of each type (and USB too) and switch between them._

 

Great, thanks Ti..


----------



## jh0n

I just placed an order for my TOTX147PL with Newark. The $20 handling fee only applies (in the US, anyways) if you're having them drop-shipped direct from Toshiba. Else, there is no handling charge - just a one week lead time.

 I bought 5 of these as well, if anyone doesn't want the headache/wait, I'll let 3 of them go for the cost of shipping.


----------



## m_Lowry

Please clarify the "Reset" circuit formed by U4D, U9D, and the integrator R8D, and C21D. It appears that the integrator is used for the delay, from U4D to hold "Enable" low while U4D provides VCC to U9D to place the DAC in "high performance" mode then turn "de-emphasis" OFF. I know this is over simplified.
 The data sheets give the info about holding enable low until the DAC is powered up, and setting the DAC to high performance mode, and the info about de-emphasis. Data sheets also give info about the 150 ms delays of the MPC100/101. My question is about the timing between U4D, U9D, and the integrator.


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *m_Lowry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Please clarify the "Reset" circuit formed by U4D, U9D, and the integrator R8D, and C21D. It appears that the integrator is used for the delay, from U4D to hold "Enable" low while U4D provides VCC to U9D to place the DAC in "high performance" mode then turn "de-emphasis" OFF. I know this is over simplified._

 

Yes, this is correct.

  Quote:


 The data sheets give the info about holding enable low until the DAC is powered up, and setting the DAC to high performance mode, and the info about de-emphasis. Data sheets also give info about the 150 ms delays of the MPC100/101. My question is about the timing between U4D, U9D, and the integrator. 
 

See the timing below, as captured on my scope. Horizontal scale is 100mS/div, vertical scale is 1V/div.
 - The yellow trace is the input 5V rail, showing the rising edge as the power is applied.
 - The cyan trace shows the output of U4D reset manager going high to 3.3V after approximately 250mS, enabling the CS8416 S/PDIF receiver/mux.
 - The violet trace shows the U9D reset manager going high at the same time as U4D, but going low after 250mS delay. This appears at the DEEMPH pin of the WM8501 DAC.
 - The green trace is after the R8D/C21D RC delay, into the WM8501's ENABLE pin. You can see that the WM8501 gets enabled while its DEEMPH is held high to activate high-performance mode, and then DEEMPH is set low by U9D to turn off de-emphasis.


----------



## funch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jh0n* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just placed an order for my TOTX147PL with Newark. The $20 handling fee only applies (in the US, anyways) if you're having them drop-shipped direct from Toshiba. Else, there is no handling charge - just a one week lead time.

 I bought 5 of these as well, if anyone doesn't want the headache/wait, I'll let 3 of them go for the cost of shipping._

 

I'll take one, and YGPM.


----------



## m_Lowry

Thanks, Ti. The capture of your scope, with your explanation, is exactly what I needed to clarify the operation. I had actually forgot about the reset of the CS8416.


----------



## MrSlim

Has anyone compared the SQ of the y1 when using USB power vs a high quality 5V dedicated power supply(or not so hight quality, ala wallwart)?

 I expect this may become more apparent when the y1 is coupled with the y2...


----------



## manaox2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrSlim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone compared the SQ of the y1 when using USB power vs a high quality 5V dedicated power supply(or not so hight quality, ala wallwart)?

 I expect this may become more apparent when the y1 is coupled with the y2..._

 

I have used a regulated battery power supply for it and don't notice a difference with the Y1. Also used the recommended wall wart and don't hear a difference.


----------



## Billyk

Hey Now,
 I just went to pull the trigger on my Mouser order only to discover the FK24X7R1E105K caps are back ordered. Can I sub in FK22X7R2A105K? The only difference I can see is 100v vs 25v working voltage.
 Thanks,
 Bill


----------



## amb

The FK22X is physically too large to fit.
 EDIT: You can use Mouser #810-FK24X7R1C105K as substitute.


----------



## Billyk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The FK22X is physically too large to fit.
 EDIT: You can use Mouser #810-FK24X7R1C105K as substitute._

 

Thanks so much!
 Project ordered.


----------



## MrSlim

Does anyone have a Mouser BOM I can use to paste into their BOM tool, for either the Full or Lite config? If you have created a "project" at Mouser for either, that would be even better. If not, I'll be creating them to share..


----------



## Billyk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrSlim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone have a Mouser BOM I can use to paste into their BOM tool, for either the Full or Lite config? If you have created a "project" at Mouser for either, that would be even better. If not, I'll be creating them to share.._

 

Here is what I have, the receiver is missing due to backorder

 730df291c4

Link

 Edit: receiver added, still on backorder though. Digi-key has it in stock.


----------



## MisterX

Are you planning on fixing that?


----------



## blawhh

@MisterX Do you sell y1 DACs?


----------



## amb

blawhh: The &gamma;1 Modular Miniature DAC


----------



## amb

Just a heads up, TORX147PL is back in stock at Digi-key. Unfortunately, not the TOTX147PL. You can still get it from Newark or Farnell, or use the module from Sys Concepts I linked in post #752 above.

 I should have PCB v1.01 very soon, which will also support the Sharp GP1FMV31TK0F (Digi-key 425-2605-5-ND).


----------



## digger945

Yep, I chose the option to have my order held until that part was in and could ship. 

 My email from Digikey said that the TORX would be available approximately July 31. I guess it's approximately close enough as they show 1,160 available just now.



 EDIT: I just now recieved email confirmation that my order has been shipped today.


----------



## funch

Just finished my y1, and am listening to Fourplay through iTunes and my

 PPA as I type this. Worked first time. Very nice. Clear and detailed with

 plenty of punchy, low bass. I'm using the Silmic II's on the output 

 bypassed with these 505-mkp20.1/100/5.

 I did the full++ in the B2-080 case, but don't yet have the Toslink parts.

 Can't wait to add the y2 board.

 Thanks Ti for another great design!!


----------



## digger945

Bob James Fourplay?
 Nice.


----------



## funch

That be them. Album entitled '4'.


----------



## Dougigs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrSlim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone compared the SQ of the y1 when using USB power vs a high quality 5V dedicated power supply(or not so hight quality, ala wallwart)?

 I expect this may become more apparent when the y1 is coupled with the y2..._

 

I've found that a regulated supply sounds noticably "better" than USB supply on my y1. I normally have it powered by a linear regulator (a rudimentary 7805-type jobbie I built), and when I unplug it and it automatically switches to USB power, there's a noticable (if subtle) deterioration in audio quality. And vice versa.

 I should add that I'm not especially golden-eared.

 I should further add that even when USB-powered, it sounds much better than a motherboard or laptop audio-out.


----------



## fordgtlover

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrSlim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone compared the SQ of the y1 when using USB power vs a high quality 5V dedicated power supply(or not so hight quality, ala wallwart)?

 I expect this may become more apparent when the y1 is coupled with the y2..._

 

I house one of mine in a larger Hammond case with a 5V TREAD powered by a wallwart. I could not hear a difference between USB power and the TREAD.


----------



## Sathimas

Hi there, I just started soldering my y1 one and have the following problem:

 How do I identify those 5 pin SOT23-5 semiconductors?

 I can not find any letters on them which help me identify them ...

 _____________

 Ignore that - found it ... stupid me


----------



## amb

Sathimas, use a loupe or high-power magnifier to help you see, and refer to the table listed at the "instructions" section of the y1 website.


----------



## rhester

What is the orientation of U4U ,the TI logic inverter? Is pin 1 at the white stripe or the opposite end? Mine have no notch.


----------



## MisterX

Quote:


 Is pin 1 at the white stripe 
 

Yes, there is also a beveled edge to suggest pin 1.


----------



## amb

Built up another γ1 full++ board, to be plugged into my second γ2.


----------



## rhester

Just finished my seconf y1, this one a full ++. get red/green light on the switch like locking into signal but no sound out. where to begion looking for the problem?


----------



## MisterX

Quote:


 where to begin looking for the problem? 
 

How did you connect the two board sections together?


----------



## linuxworks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Built up another γ1 full++ board, to be plugged into my second γ2._

 

its a lot more work than it looks, huh?






 I have a spare y1 board-pair still in 1 board and I might have most of the parts for it, but I gladly used an 'old' y1 receiver board to bootstrap my y2 system. I didn't want to build it again. lazy bastage that I am


----------



## rhester

Bad solder connections. traed thru schematic and have beautiful sound out of this. pics of cased up build to come soon.


----------



## nattonrice

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *linuxworks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_its a lot more work than it looks, huh?




_

 

Take into account my short term memory problems when trying to photo every stage and... yeah lol


----------



## Hob Hayward

I just got my y1 board and the box enclosure for the full++/y2 config in the mail, and this has probably already been addressed by someone, but the unbroken y1 board is too large to slide into the box enclosure by ~1 mm. I'm planning on taking the belt sander to the board (wearing a respirator of course, fiberglass dust is.. unpleasant to say the least?) unless anyone has a better idea of how to make it fit?

 Again, sorry if this has already been brought up!

 Thanks!


----------



## Beefy

Yeah...... *anything* other than a belt sander.

 Just some patience with a small piece of sandpaper is less likely to end in tears.


----------



## nattonrice

Indeed. A medium, flat person file is the best as it gives lots of control.
 And after a couple of passes (equal amounts on both sides) check for fit.
 Make it tight and snug not floppy and loose


----------



## Hob Hayward

Ah, I figured it would take alot of work to get it down to size.

 Good to know all it takes is a file and/or sandpaper!

 I can't wait to start putting this together tonight 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hob Hayward* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got my y1 board and the box enclosure for the full++/y2 config in the mail, and this has probably already been addressed by someone, but the unbroken y1 board is too large to slide into the box enclosure by ~1 mm. I'm planning on taking the belt sander to the board (wearing a respirator of course, fiberglass dust is.. unpleasant to say the least?) unless anyone has a better idea of how to make it fit?

 Again, sorry if this has already been brought up!

 Thanks!_

 

Yes, this is mentioned at the γ1 website's "Instructions" section, under "pre-assembly notes". A few rubs on each side (on a flat surface with even pressure) 100-150 grit sandpaper is all you need.


----------



## MisterX

Quote:


 A few rubs on each side (on a flat surface with even pressure) 100-150 grit sandpaper is all you need. 
 

Or a belt sander.


----------



## Hob Hayward

Yeah I noticed that last night when I was starting to put it together... Whoops. Guess I should read before posting. 

 The SMD from amb is soldered, and the mouser order will be here tonight. Hopefully I can post a working y1 later today


----------



## Beefy

Quick question...... I am going to use a y1 USB to SPDIF converter inside the case of my Buffalo DAC, and am unsure of the most appropriate grounding scheme.

 Currently, I have the case connected to AC ground for safety reasons. Every component of the Buffalo DAC is isolated from the case. I believe that I should also isolate the y1 from the case; primarily, I don't want the USB of my computer to be in any way connected to the case should it come into contact with mains AC. I also suspect that it isn't a good idea to connect everything in normal operation, due to the possibility of ground loops.

 So I was planning to mount the y1 in the case with the existing PCB holes, but cut their connection to the ground plane. As an added layer of safety, I will probably fix the y1 in the case with nylon standoffs and screws.

 Yes? No? Maybe?


----------



## digger945

Well mine doesn't seem to be any different running on the desk than inside a case. The metal strips on the two sides are meant to contact the case but I believe Marshall or Ti said that these were for added shielding. This ground plane does connect through a ferrite bead to the usb ground. I would say it really doesn't matter either way you want to mount it.


----------



## amb

Beefy, yes isolating everything sounds like a good idea. Just using nylon screws and standoffs to mount the PCB is enough (no need to hack the board).


----------



## Beefy

Thanks guys


----------



## Hob Hayward

So I goofed and forgot to order the usb connector (no clue how I missed that one..) and I confused the 22k's with the 22's and ended up with 4 22k's and no 22's. 

 Alas, but wanting to be able to use it somehow while I wait for things to arrive I decided to test the SPDIF only portion. The missing components were all on the USB board so this seemed fine to me. I dug up an unused phone charger; 5V 1A according to the wallwart. Re-did the connector with a spare I had lieing around. Multimeter read just over 5V, center positive.

 So I did the pre-checks, all ok. Plugged it in and no light from the toggle switch? Checked the voltages; 3.286 from the 3.3V and 4.766 on the 4.5 (using TPS793475 on U6D). Multimeter is a fluke 177 so it should be pretty accurate.

 Any ideas?


 Edit: scratch that... I just sprayed it down with flux remover.. and it works? I'm going to guess there was a little bit of cut lead shorting something out that I didn't notice when I looked it over.

 Edit Edit: And it works! Of course today would be the one day I brought my mini^3 to work. And decided to leave it there to charge overnight... Oh well. More thorough testing tmrow.


----------



## amb

Hob Hayward, 90% of γ1 problems are solder joint-related (on SMD pads), so that's where you should start. Make sure you have installed the correct part at U8D and try reflow its joints. Also, if you used Fairchild 2N3904 for Q1/Q2, they are _not_ 2N3904C (the C-suffix part has the wrong pin-out).

 Other than "no light", does the DAC actually work? (i.e., plays music from an S/PDIF source)


----------



## dlosborne

MisterX asked a while ago to grab a picture of his γ1 lite stuffed in with a PPAv2 into a 1455N case

 (I stuck a link in the PPAv2 page with the remaining shots of the build.)


----------



## Hob Hayward

After working last night consistently.. it started being intermittent today. Based on your comment, Amb, it turns out one or more of the transistor pins needed reflow.

 Thanks!

 Listening results: Damnnnnnn. Haha, my modest listening test of an NAD 512 CD player -> gamma1 -> mini^3 -> grado sr60's prettymuch blew me away at the difference. Now I must say I had never listened to the actual CD of the music I was testing on, just the 320kbps MP3's served from computer (a gazillion times), ipod, zen vision m etc. through mini^3. Everything sounded tighter and like really crisp. Also even though the grado's are known for having no soundstage it sounded like everything was wider (?). Yeah subjective terms etc. whatever, I was really impressed. Thanks for your contributions to the community Amb and Mister X : ). I'm looking forwards to building a gamma2 when you finalize the build.


----------



## wiatrob

Ti and Marshall - it should be possible to use the USB board as a usb -> i2s converter as is, correct? 

 Short J2U 1&2
 Short JP1U 2&3

 Connect MCLK, SYNC, CLK, Data, (and DGND if necessary) to another DAC (Opus n this case) i2s inputs..


----------



## MisterX

Yep, that will work. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 (shorting J2U pins 1&2 "enables" self powered operation, shorting JP1U pins 2&3 "enables" I2S output and jumpering the JP2U pins connects the I2S "data outputs" to J3U)


----------



## wiatrob

Thanks, I'll post a followup with results..


----------



## amb

wiatrob, also see "config D" at the γ1 website.


----------



## wiatrob

Apologies, the one place I didn't look at (other than the schematic). As usual, a comprehensive resource - Thanks.


----------



## pistolsnipe

hey does anyone happen to have a torx receiver? i ordered everything but this, torx is out of stock.


----------



## MisterX

Digi-key has 1,347 of them.


----------



## pistolsnipe

got the torx from a fellow head-fier, got it all together except i broke my inductor, damn


----------



## funch

Can the Sharp Toslink transmitter piece be made to fit the 1.0 board?


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *funch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can the Sharp Toslink transmitter piece be made to fit the 1.0 board?_

 

The only way to make it fit the v1.0 board would be to cut off the two metal mounting tabs on the Sharp module, but that would put all the strain on the three pins, and is not robust (the module will wiggle around as you plug/unplug the Toslink cable). I wouldn't recommend it.


----------



## funch

Aaaaahh, but you underestimate my deviousness (a.k.a. desperation)!

 So long as the pinout is the same, I was thinking of removing the metal
 bracket and using epoxy as the mechanical connection.

 BTW, thanks for the quick reply.


----------



## linuxworks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *funch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Aaaaahh, but you underestimate my deviousness (a.k.a. desperation)!

 So long as the pinout is the same, I was thinking of removing the metal
 bracket and using epoxy as the mechanical connection._

 

I do hacky things like this:
















 lately, I have gone to using molex connectors on the board and chassis-mounting my jacks. it gives me total freedom to pick any part I want, even ones that don't fit board footprints. at the cost of extra labor and wiring, of course 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 if you are using the standard case, you can't do these hacks; but if you want the dac more than the case and are open about casing it up, air wiring jacks like this give a lot more parts freedom. there's always at least some kind of opto tx/rx block in stock, somewhere.


----------



## funch

Looks like we share the same philosophy: 'If you can't find it, adapt it
 or build it'.


----------



## linuxworks

yup. I have some very old opto parts that I wanted to use. they work fine, as parts.

 also, there's voltage to worry about. the newer parts want 3v for their vcc but the older toslinks want 5. if you airwire, you can hang the vcc lead off anything you want 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 then data and ground are always the same. 3v levels and 5v ttl levels seem compatible enough, in practice. I've used 5v toslinks on gamma1/gamma2 and it works fine if you hang its plus wire off the right point 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I do use a screw to mount the toslink to the case. no need for glue or anything.


----------



## funch

Thanks for all the info. My Gamma 1 is working and boxed up, so I 
 can't air wire anything. Now I'm waiting for the Y-2 boards to come
 in so I can add that little jewel to the mix.


----------



## jnewman

I just finished my Gamma1 that I am building with a Gamma2. I'm waiting on a few missing parts to complete the Gamma2 and the USB board of the Gamma1, but as someone who has not been to any Head-Fi meets or anything, and has never had a standalone DAC before - listening even straight out of the Gamma1 with IEMs is a revelation (I did the 470uF output caps for the Gamma1 board). I have a pretty expensive sound card and one of M-Audio's USB I/O and recording interfaces, and they don't even come close. Neither does anything else I have I can plug headphones into. I'm going to have to build a couple more!


----------



## luvdunhill

Ti:

 I'm looking to use a similar trick with the solder-mask-free grounded extrusion as you employed on the gamma1. I was wondering, why didn't you run the ground all the way up to the end of the board? It looks like you were able to do this on the other two sides. Perhaps this gap was this required by the fab? Do you mind sharing how wide this gap is? Finally, did you have to remove any anodizing from the slots in the cases in order to get a good connection?

 Thanks!


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *luvdunhill* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was wondering, why didn't you run the ground all the way up to the end of the board?_

 

Eagle limits the distance between the board boundary to any copper. The default is 40 mils. For a copper plane it will automatically truncate at that distance even if you draw it all the way to the edge. For traces or pads if you get within that limit it will generate a DRC error. You could defeat that limitation, but I want to keep the DRC check and a small gap doesn't hurt anything.

  Quote:


 It looks like you were able to do this on the other two sides. 
 

All side edges are the same...

  Quote:


 Perhaps this gap was this required by the fab? 
 

It's possible that some fabs might have this requirement. Obviously I didn't "push" this issue with mine.

  Quote:


 Do you mind sharing how wide this gap is? 
 

For γ1 I used a 25 mil gap.

  Quote:


 Finally, did you have to remove any anodizing from the slots in the cases in order to get a good connection? 
 

It depends on the case. For Hammond 1455 series, it is not necessary to do this on the clear (silver) ones. The surface treatment they used remains conductive. The black Hammonds (and all the Box B2-080 series) need to have the anodizing filed off to make contact.


----------



## MrSlim

Hey Ti, 
 I shorted myself on the 68 ohm resistor networks (ordered 1 instead of 2) when I put in my follow up order with you a couple of weeks ago. 
 Can I use this part from Digikey:
Digi-Key - 4308R-2-680LF-ND (Bourns Inc. - 4308R-102-680LF)

 The only thing I can see that might be an issue is the packaging, would it be too wide to fit ?


----------



## MisterX

From the Gamma 1 parts list page: 

  Quote:


 R5D and R6D are SIP-6 "bussed" resistor networks, each with five internal resistors, one pin of each of them are connected to a common bus. R7D is a SIP-8 "isolated" resistor network, with four independent internal resistors. The lead pitch is 0.1" (2.5mm) for all of these. 

 •Bourns 4600X series 
 •Bourns 4300R series 
 •other similar 
 

Yes, you can use a Bourns, 4300 series, .1" pitch, SIP-8, 68 ohm, isolated, resistor network. 
 And...
 No, it is not to wide.


----------



## MrSlim

Thanks Marshall, 
 As usual, it was on the page I was looking at.. just farther down... 
 Maling headway though, Doing a gamma 1 full, gamma 1 lite and my gamma 2 protpotype in parallel. One more oder from DIgikey otta do it, now that the TORX are back in stock.


----------



## amc

Well, I signed up for the y2 prototype team and was pretty nervous if I would even be able to complete it. 

 I have only started in DIY audio and even electronics. I had success with a few CMOYs on breadboards but thought my skill was not up there and ready for something more serious - especially with SMD parts. These pictures and comments document my y1 and hopefully will be helpful for other people making their first SMD project or even project on a properly plated PCB.

 I am happily listening to my gamma 1 as I type this. My gamma 2 has a short somewhere that causes it to work only intermittently depending on where I press to apply pressure to the board sandwich 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. So I need to spend some time on it but believe I will get it in the next few days.

*Tools and bits:
*





*0)* Watch the curious inventor tutorial 3 times and understand it. You need very little heat and very little solder for SMD parts. It shouldnt need saying but also read and understand gamma 1. The instructions are awesome - thanks Ti, Marshall and whoever else wrote these! 
*1)* FLUX! - I got rosin flux and bought a bottle with a needle like tangent sells for applying to the board. I don't think you will have much success with SMD parts without flux.
*2)* Iron - I wish I had a temperature controlled iron. The 25 watt Weller just does not cut it for heating up the ground plane. Very fine tip
*3)* Tweezers, fine solder (0.6mm), an eye loupe (10x), multimeter, solder braid, bag o parts (labeled), and a board. I did not use the helping hands much.

*SMD Parts:
*





*0)* Pick the parts order carefully. I blew it the first time. I picked UD1 ( see this and the next picture - top left). It had only 8 pins but man were they closely spaced. Really hard to not get a bridge and I had to spend a bunch of time cleaning it up. Better to pick the widest pin spacing regardless of number of pins (UD2) in this case. Once you get the techniques down tackle the tighter spaced chips or the smaller, harder to handle 5 pin ones.
*1)* Place the part on the board in the right orientation. Note pin 1 is marked by a dot - or on one part on the gamma 2 by a line between pin 1 and 2 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Follow the techniques in the video on SMD soldering. Use your tweezers to nudge it into place. Pay attention to the pads - try and get the part evenly distributed on the pads (left and right sides) as well as perfectly centred. Hold it down with your tweezers.
*2)* BE GENEROUS WITH FLUX. You can clean it off later and it helps the solder flow so nice...
*3)* BE STINGY WITH THE SOLDER. A little goes a long way...

*SMD Close Up:
*





*0) *CHECK YOUR WORK - visually with your loupe for good joints and no bridges, and with your meter ensure each pin has continuity with its pad and no continuity with neighboring pads unless it is supposed to. It would be really hard to fix this once you populate the whole board and as another member pointed out you could mess up the parts, or let the "magic smoke out". 
*1) *Solder braid to clean up bridges - I had no idea but the curious inventor did - that if you use well tinned braid it actually helps suck up the bridge. Cool. Also - if I had known before - I would have done ud1 by flooding the pins then cleaning up the excess with braid - it worked good on the y2. Shows you that you really gotta pay attention to the tutorial.

*Fully Populated Board:
*





*0)* I did not use the helping hands. Once beyond the SMD parts, I worked in order of part height (shortest to tallest). AMB lays this out nicely in his instructions. Instead I just kinked the leads and flipped the board over flat and pressed. I read in the Starving Student instructions that you should make sure the leads point up perpendicular to the board - that would probably helped with alignment of some of the parts but I am not picky.
*1)* Thats it. I did the initial check as far as I could but didn't get it working until I finished the y2 board - If your building the y2 you don't put the signal wires on the bottom like in the gamma1++ and you don't mate the USB and DAC board together but use the y2 for passing signals between the USB and DAC sections.

 So you other newbies can do it too. I took my time and double checked lots of things and it fired up the first time. I couldn't have been happier. Check the Gamma 2 prototype thread or my photo bucket for gamma 2 pics in the next couple of days...

 Comments?


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Comments?_

 

Step down your lens a touch 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My pedantic nature aside, nice work. Not sure what to do about the intermittent y2 though......


----------



## fault151

@ amc = nice work! I know how much of a pain in the ass it is to solder them chips, especially the usb chip!


----------



## dean0

Nearley finished my Gamma Y1+++ Full Config, but I think I may have a problem, two pins on the TI/Burr-Brown PCM2707PJT USB DAC (TQFP-32) seem to be in contact. I have labeled them in the pic below, the two pins next to each other on the end;


----------



## jnewman

Are the pins bent until they are touching, or is there a solder bridge? If there's a solder bridge, just put some flux on it and press solder wick between the pins with the tip of your iron.

 If the pins are bent, you'll have a lot more trouble because you can't bend them back while they are still soldered to the pads - I bent a pin on the power switching chip but was able to flow the solder and bend it back with a very fine iron tip. This may or may not be the right thing to do, so you may want to wait for someone with more experience.


----------



## dean0

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jnewman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are the pins bent until they are touching, or is there a solder bridge? If there's a solder bridge, just put some flux on it and press solder wick between the pins with the tip of your iron.

 If the pins are bent, you'll have a lot more trouble because you can't bend them back while they are still soldered to the pads - I bent a pin on the power switching chip but was able to flow the solder and bend it back with a very fine iron tip. This may or may not be the right thing to do, so you may want to wait for someone with more experience. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

thanks for the input, but no pins are bent and soldering is top notch 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 just looking at the specs of the chip and it is pin 25-26, looks like they are both ground;

 25; Ground for internal regulator
 26; Analog ground for headphone amplifier of L-channel

 does that mean they are connected to a common ground?


----------



## jnewman

Sorry, my mistake. I wasn't paying enough attention. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you look at the schematic for the Y1 on amb.org, pins 25 and 26 of U1U are both connected to ground, so yes, you will find continuity between the pins.


----------



## dean0

thanks, just waiting for network resistors and im good to go 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 pics later


----------



## jnewman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dean0* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thanks, just waiting for network resistors and im good to go 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 pics later_

 

It's doubly embarrassing that I misunderstood you given that I asked the exact same question about one of the little 5-pin chips.


----------



## dean0

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jnewman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's doubly embarrassing that I misunderstood you given that I asked the exact same question about one of the little 5-pin chips. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

hahaha we all make mistakes


----------



## luvdunhill

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It depends on the case. For Hammond 1455 series, it is not necessary to do this on the clear (silver) ones. The surface treatment they used remains conductive. The black Hammonds (and all the Box B2-080 series) need to have the anodizing filed off to make contact._

 

FWIW, I talked to FPE and their profiles are _not_ conductive. I'm not sure I have a file that will fit the groove, so I'll have to hunt around for one when the time comes. Perhaps a PCB and some sandpaper would also work..


----------



## Billyk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *luvdunhill* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_FWIW, I talked to FPE and their profiles are not conductive. I'm not sure I have a file that will fit the groove, so I'll have to hunt around for one when the time comes. Perhaps a PCB and some sandpaper would also work.._

 

I use the wife's emery boards.


----------



## MisterX

No time like the present to rectify that....

Parts-Express.com:*10 Piece Needle File Set | tool file needle file coarse file fine file medium file


----------



## m1abrams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *luvdunhill* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_FWIW, I talked to FPE and their profiles are not conductive. I'm not sure I have a file that will fit the groove, so I'll have to hunt around for one when the time comes. Perhaps a PCB and some sandpaper would also work.._

 

Go to walmart, target, drug store, etc and go to where they have nail products and look for a metal nail file. They are cheap and thin enough to fit in the rails. The emery board style nail files just take too long, but the metal ones work well.


----------



## ShinyFalcon

I clipped one of the rails (the one with the screw) with a nail clipper and I planned on soldering a piece of wire to it. though I don't know if the solder will stick to the aluminum...

 Edit: This may be a bad idea for full y1, since it's cramped in there. I'm only doing this since I have space in my Hammond case and built a USB->SPDIF y1.


----------



## m1abrams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ShinyFalcon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I clipped one of the rails (the one with the screw) with a nail clipper and I planned on soldering a piece of wire to it. though I don't know if the solder will stick to the aluminum..._

 

Note solder is not much of a physical connection and most likely not hold.


----------



## jnewman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *m1abrams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Note solder is not much of a physical connection and most likely not hold._

 

I am not sure whether solder will bond to aluminum or not. Even if it will, it is very hard to get a good solder bond on a piece of metal that large because it is difficult to get the surface hot enough for the solder to bond properly. You end up with a ball of solder on the surface rather than the "volcano" shape in which the solder wicks out.

 With that said, the physical connection the solder makes is what holds almost every component on the board. If he can get a proper solder bond (maybe, maybe not), why would it hold any less than anywhere else in the DAC?


----------



## m1abrams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jnewman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am not sure whether solder will bond to aluminum or not. Even if it will, it is very hard to get a good solder bond on a piece of metal that large because it is difficult to get the surface hot enough for the solder to bond properly. You end up with a ball of solder on the surface rather than the "volcano" shape in which the solder wicks out.

 With that said, the physical connection the solder makes is what holds almost every component on the board. If he can get a proper solder bond (maybe, maybe not), why would it hold any less than anywhere else in the DAC?_

 

Not a single place on the board where you have solder is the pure solder part expected to withstand much force. Even the jacks solder points are designed where the solder provides little force, it is more the post and the fact that the solder filled the whole. Take 2 wires that are soldered together without twisting them together, it takes little effort to separate them.


----------



## jnewman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *m1abrams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not a single place on the board where you have solder is the pure solder part expected to withstand much force. Even the jacks solder points are designed where the solder provides little force, it is more the post and the fact that the solder filled the whole. Take 2 wires that are soldered together without twisting them together, it takes little effort to separate them._

 

A grounding wire between the board and case wouldn't exactly be expected to take a lot of force... have you ever looked inside a point-to-point tube amp?


----------



## fishski13

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jnewman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are the pins bent until they are touching, or is there a solder bridge? If there's a solder bridge, just put some flux on it and press solder wick between the pins with the tip of your iron.

 If the pins are bent, you'll have a lot more trouble because you can't bend them back while they are still soldered to the pads - I bent a pin on the power switching chip but was able to flow the solder and bend it back with a very fine iron tip. This may or may not be the right thing to do, so you may want to wait for someone with more experience. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

i think i spent 1 hr x2 on 2 separate occasions ohming the the y-1 DAC only board before first power-up. it's a centipede of diffuculty with the schematic and datasheets for pin-out at hand.


----------



## pistolsnipe

i have some 47uf black gates (non polar) laying around, would they make a difference in c24d/c25d or should i save them for a rainy day? and if they would make a difference, should i take out the bypass caps?


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pistolsnipe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i have some 47uf black gates (non polar) laying around, would they make a difference in c24d/c25d or should i save them for a rainy day? and if they would make a difference, should i take out the bypass caps?_

 

As long as they are 6.3mm diameter, 2mm or 2.5mm lead pitch and no more than 11mm tall, then you can use them. If these are Black Gate NX Hi-Q, they are listed in the recommended parts list. As for whether these are "better" than any of the others in the recommended list, or if the Wima bypass caps should be used, it's up to individual preference.


----------



## Billyk

Another one lives! A ++ waiting patiently for it's y2 mate!!
 It sounds wonderful, and was a real joy to build, passed the initial check and fired up flawlessly. Thank you AMB.


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Billyk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Another one lives! A ++ waiting patiently for it's y2 mate!!
 It sounds wonderful, and was a real joy to build, passed the initial check and fired up flawlessly. Thank you AMB._

 

Cool!

 Btw, for those of you who are looking to upgrade a γ1 full++ to a γ2 (Box Enclosures B2-080 case), please do not make the front and rear panels yet. The panel hole locations documented on the γ1 website for the full++ configuration works only for γ1 full++. When you add a γ2 board, not only would you need to add more holes for the extra connectors, the board "sandwich" will sit in the case just ever so slightly lower in the slots, so _all_ the holes need to be moved down to match. I am preparing the γ2 website at the moment, which will have new dimensional drawings for the γ2 panels.


----------



## DeusEx

How much is this, again?


----------



## sergery

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cool!

 Btw, for those of you who are looking to upgrade a γ1 full++ to a γ2 (Box Enclosures B2-080 case). I am preparing the γ2 website at the moment, which will have new dimensional drawings for the γ2 panels._

 

Excellent! just in time, my γ1(γ2 to be) is sitting waiting for me to do something about its poor faceless Box B2. can you tell us if there are near-term plans for γ2 ready-made panels?

 Thanks!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -Serge


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sergery* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_can you tell us if there are near-term plans for γ2 ready-made panels?_

 

Yes, I will offer panel sets for the γ2 + γ1 full++ configuration in black only. Their ETA is about 2 weeks from now.


----------



## dean0

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, I will offer panel sets for the γ2 + γ1 full++ configuration in black only. Their ETA is about 2 weeks from now._

 

only black? maybe silver aswell...


----------



## amb

Traditionally I had only offered black panels (e.g., γ1 full and Mini³). I had pre-ordered some sets to meet an initial demand and they are all black. In the future, I may consider other colors on a custom-order basis. Note that on light colored panels (i.e., silver or gold) the engraved markings should have black infill to make them legible, which will cost extra.


----------



## sergery

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, I will offer panel sets for the γ2 + γ1 full++ configuration in black only. Their ETA is about 2 weeks from now._

 

This is most excellent - on the ball as ever AMB! I will plan to get some then, thanks!!

 -Serge


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Traditionally I had only offered black panels (e.g., γ1 full and Mini³). I had pre-ordered some sets to meet an initial demand and they are all black. In the future, I may consider other colors on a custom-order basis. Note that on light colored panels (i.e., silver or gold) the engraved markings should have black infill to make them legible, which will cost extra._

 

Any chance you can make some Front Panel Designer or CAD files available such that people can customise the panels for themselves?

 For example, I would very much like a silver set with black engraving infill, no digital outs, no filter switches; I doubt I could make such a thing from scratch, but could probably modify an existing set to get exactly what I want fairly easily......


----------



## jnewman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any chance you can make some Front Panel Designer or CAD files available such that people can customise the panels for themselves?

 For example, I would very much like a silver set with black engraving infill, no digital outs, no filter switches; I doubt I could make such a thing from scratch, but could probably modify an existing set to get exactly what I want fairly easily......_

 

AMB has all the hole sizes and positions and whatnot posted on his website - front panel designer is really pretty easy, why not give it a try? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (i.e., click type of hole you want, press "m" for manual coordinate entry, enter coordinates from AMB's list, enter hole size, done)


----------



## Beefy

Why re-invent the wheel? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm actually familiar with Front Panel Designer, and could do most of it...... but I would like to keep the logos, but I suspect that they are CAD generated.


----------



## jnewman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why re-invent the wheel? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm actually familiar with Front Panel Designer, and could do most of it...... but I would like to keep the logos, but I suspect that they are CAD generated._

 

The only thing I see that is not normal text is the Y1 logo, both characters of which look like standard FPD fonts (they have a Greek font and multi-stroke outline fonts).

 I am in process of doing one for my new Gamma 2 and the whole thing is only going to take an hour or so (maybe two).


----------



## amb

jnewman, the logo is made from standard built-in fonts.

 Beefy, what you ask is custom, so you should DIY. Also, I treat the panel CAD files the same way as I do the PCB CAD files -- as long as I am offering the end product for sale, I won't release them. But the dimensional drawing (much like the circuit schematic diagram) will be open and documented on the website.


----------



## Beefy

Understandable. No harm in asking!


----------



## grenert

Since there are on-board regulators, could a 6V regulated supply work with the gamma-1?


----------



## MisterX

http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tps2115a.pdf

  Quote:


 Wide Operating Voltage Range . . . .2.8 V to 5.5 V 
 

(the max recommended input voltage for U1D is 5.5 volts)


----------



## R4ABigman

I know this might've been asked before, but I've been struggling to find any information via the power of the search tool.

 I'm trying to integrate an M3, O11 and Y1 in the same enclosure -- as an all-in-one digital headphones amplifier solution. I've come a little unstuck when it comes to powering the Y11, though.

 My most recently thought is to use a BUF634, with V+ being the 24V (VCC), V- being the 0V (VEE) and I/P being 12V (VGND or IG from M3). The idea was borrowed from the Alien DAC. This, in conjunction with an LM78M05 should give me the +5VDC and 0VDC I require for the y1, but keeping the VGND correctly referenced throughout.

 Apologies for the quality of my diagram, but this is what I mean:





 Will this work?
 Is this the best solution?
 Is 250mA (which is all I'd expect to be able to get) going to be enough for the y1?

 Thanks in advance!


----------



## Hob Hayward

So I'm having a weird problem now.. after my gamma1 working properly for quite some time, the red light has stopped coming on.. ever. When I left for my lab today it was sitting there glowing red, I get back and the light refuses to come on. It still outputs fine using the usb and spdif inputs, and will glow green if its on the right setting and a signal is present.

 I looked over the board to see if anything could have gone wrong, but I don't see anything.. Any ideas?


----------



## m1abrams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hob Hayward* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I'm having a weird problem now.. after my gamma1 working properly for quite some time, the red light has stopped coming on.. ever. When I left for my lab today it was sitting there glowing red, I get back and the light refuses to come on. It still outputs fine using the usb and spdif inputs, and will glow green if its on the right setting and a signal is present.

 I looked over the board to see if anything could have gone wrong, but I don't see anything.. Any ideas?_

 

reflow the solder points on the switch SW1D pin4 LEDR, and ALL pins on Q2D. If that does not solve it I suppose maybe Q2D has failed. Maybe someone with more knowledge can assist too. That is my first guess as to where to look for the problem.


----------



## Hob Hayward

Hmm I reflowed Q2D and all switch joints, to no avail. Maybe Q2D is actually bad?

 I've gone over the board a couple times now and I don't see any dry or bad joints.


----------



## amb

Try reflowing all pins of U8D, and U2D pins 14 and 15.


----------



## Hob Hayward

Argh.. No luck there either =/ Joints looked good to begin with but I reflowed them anyways.


----------



## amb

Well, then you should take a look at the schematic... what could make the red LED work but not the green, or vice versa? There aren't many components in there, and one of them has either gone bad or got a bad solder joint.


----------



## CodeToad

I was running my Gamma1 as usb power only and then switched it to auto select by adding U1D and assoc. resistors.

 There is a slight but noticeable change in sound quality. At this point I would not rely on usb power.


----------



## nickosha

Are there any known alternatives to the mini-b USB connector? All the sites I've checked are out of stock and not expecting a new shipment until December. Just from the pictures it looks like the connector has a little more rise above the pcb than some of the others.

 Also, thanks for the great project, amb. I can't wait to put it together and hear how it sounds.


----------



## MisterX

Here is a link to "a discussion" about an alternate USB jack----> 

HeadWize: View Post [DIY Workshop » γ1: Full-featured modular miniature DAC]


----------



## dg3f

have anyone ever tried to plug an IEM to the output of this Dac and hear some background hiss? i notice that amb's website has a note about this problem on win server 2008, but my OS is Xp sp3.


----------



## nickosha

Thanks for the link, MisterX. I didn't even think about using a mini-AB jack.


----------



## grego9198

Argh, it looks like mouser forgot to ship one of my Nichicon Radial Caps (647-UES1E220MEM).... It's the last piece of my y1 build. Does anyone have one of these kicking around that I could purchase? I doubt mouser will fix my order a 2nd time and ship me 1 capacitor. I am having real bad luck with their project manager...

 Should I have these 3 capacitors matching? Or can I use 2 of the same on C24D/C25D (My Nichicon 22uF/25V) and a different one (like say a Panasonic 22uF/35V) on C22D? This is my first build and it was going smoothly up til this cap. I have the rest of the board populated too... Guess I'll work on the y2 board tomorrow...


----------



## CodeToad

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grego9198* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I am having real bad luck with their project manager..._

 

The way the BOM is setup with all the variations and single parts listed one at a time necessitates that you pull the page into Excel and sort it out BEFORE you start adding parts into the Mouser order form. That way you eliminate what's not needed and consolidate like parts.


----------



## grego9198

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CodeToad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The way the BOM is setup with all the variations and single parts listed one at a time necessitates that you pull the page into Excel and sort it out BEFORE you start adding parts into the Mouser order form. That way you eliminate what's not needed and consolidate like parts._

 

I did do that, but in a text file rather than excel, then transferred my numbers into mouser's online project manager. My project on mouser shows 3 for that line, however I was only billed and shipped 2 pieces. I'm thinking that ordering my 3 projects (mini3, y1 and y2) somehow messed up the addition of like parts between them (although that line wasn't shared between them.) Next time I'll skip mouser's project manager and just add all the project components together myself.


----------



## CodeToad

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grego9198* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did do that, but in a text file rather than excel, then transferred my numbers into mouser's online project manager. My project on mouser shows 3 for that line, however I was only billed and shipped 2 pieces. I'm thinking that ordering my 3 projects (mini3, y1 and y2) somehow messed up the addition of like parts between them (although that line wasn't shared between them.) Next time I'll skip mouser's project manager and just add all the project components together myself._

 

I've found that when ordering parts I've ordered before that it will pull up the part and apply the previous part id I had applied before. That can get confusing real fast unless you're paying attention and catch it.


----------



## grego9198

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CodeToad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've found that when ordering parts I've ordered before that it will pull up the part and apply the previous part id I had applied before. That can get confusing real fast unless you're paying attention and catch it._

 

Ah, that's just as confusing lol. In hindsight I should have been more diligent with checking my order before I submitted it.

 I'm going to swing by my local electronics part shop (they only carry NTE products though) and pick up a cheap equivalent cap for C22D just so I can test the board to see if I messed up anything and have to order a replacement. I think I'll just have to order another Nichicon off mouser. That's my best bet right?


----------



## nickosha

One of the caps from my mouser order is dented. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I can just put a replacement in the order I was going to put in in a few days, but what the heck, you know.


----------



## CodeToad

I do dumb **** all the time....it's a fact of life 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Mitigating my ID-10T errors beforehand has become necessary.


----------



## grego9198

Okay got it fired up with the cheapie caps in place. Good news is that it was detected, everything lights up properly, outputs sound even. Bad news is the 4.5V pad reads only 2.1V (rest of the pads check out fine) and there is a whine in the background when I plug my earphones in. What could be causing the low reading on that pad?


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grego9198* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Okay got it fired up with the cheapie caps in place. Good news is that it was detected, everything lights up properly, outputs sound even. Bad news is the 4.5V pad reads only 2.1V (rest of the pads check out fine) and there is a whine in the background when I plug my earphones in. What could be causing the low reading on that pad?_

 

Try reflowing the solder joints on U6D.


----------



## grego9198

Reflowed U6D, works great! Now just need to replace those cheapie caps. Onwards to the y2 thread


----------



## Lazerboy2000

I just got my 1st DAC which happens to be a Gamma-1 lite DAC. I've had it for about 10 mins and am already in love. It's a HUGE step up from my PC sound and it's pure bliss.


----------



## Henrik Nordberg

I am missing the transmitting fiber optic module. Is it OK to just leave it unpopulated?

 I am building a y2 and have the y1 board done (apart from fiber out). I tried to test it as a Full++ and it is recognized by Windows and the led turns green when music plays, but there is only intermittent crackle. No Music. The test points show the correct voltages and there are no bridges as far as I can see with 10x magnification. 

 I can provide photos, if that helps.

 Thanks,
 - Henrik


----------



## ShinyFalcon

Yes it's okay to omit it if you won't be using the transmitting function. I have that portion of the y1/y2 omitted since it just looks strange in the front, and made a dedicated y1 just for the transmitting. It won't affect how your music plays.

 Next logical step would be to check your mating pins and make sure they're continuous.


----------



## amb

Henrik, also try reflowing the WM8501 solder joints, as well as all those on the right side of the CS8416.


----------



## dumbears

I completed soldering all the components into the gamma-1 pcb. I passed all the short-circuit test, and the voltage test on both the USB and DAC PCBs. However, I'm still having the "USB Device Not Recognized" prompt.

 I know I have to check if there're any bridges between pads and/or cold-joints in pads. Are there any components I should give more attention? Are there any checks to perform to pick the bad component out?

 Pls advise. Thanks!


----------



## amb

dumbears, check the solder joints of your U1U and U2U, reflow if necessary. Also make sure that U2U us the right one (see γ1 website "instructions" section to verify the chip markings), and U1U is mounted in the correct orientation.


----------



## dumbears

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_dumbears, check the solder joints of your U1U and U2U, reflow if necessary. Also make sure that U2U us the right one (see γ1 website "instructions" section to verify the chip markings), and U1U is mounted in the correct orientation._

 

Thanks a lot. The issue is solved. It's due to some cold joints in U1U. Too bad, I can't find any liquid flux or flux pen in Hong Kong. The alternative is just flux paste. It's very messy.

 Like the others here, my next journey is gamma-2, and I don't have a good start. I'm hoping that U4 hasn't had any bridge between the pins. Fingers crossed.


----------



## MisterX

I did a quick search and it appears many of the sellers offering liquid flux on eBay are located in Hong Kong. 
 The prices are a little excessive though so......


----------



## JamesL

I got around to casing my v0.6 board today, and it turns out that I'm not getting a 4.5v rail. I'm getting 5.19v at the input, and 1.6mV at the output of U6D.
 It was working perfectly the last time I tested it, before I had to pack all my DIY stuff in summer-storage. 

 Before I replace U6D, I'm wondering if there's anything I should test for that might have caused the regulator to fail.


----------



## amb

JamesL, the regulator may not be bad. Try reflowing its solder joints first to see if it's merely a cold joint problem.


----------



## JamesL

Thanks. I didn't reflow the joints, but I tested for continuity from each pin onto the board; everything checked out fine.
 As I said, it was working beautifully before I stored it up for the summer; it seems odd that the regulator would randomly fail.


----------



## amb

JamesL, humor me and try reflowing anyway. Probing/testing from the pin to the board exerts pressure to the pin and may make a bad joint "good" during the test, but as soon as you remove the probe it goes bad again. Maybe the part is indeed dead, but don't automatically assume so, until you've exhausted the easy solutions first.


----------



## JamesL

Sorry =/
 I reflowed the joints as you suggested.


----------



## Henrik Nordberg

Okay, still no progress after reflowing a couple of chips. Here are some images that I am hoping might help:

 DAC back side (click here for hi res.) :




 USB back side (click here for hi res.) :




 USB top (click here for hi res.) :




 DAC front (click here for hi res.) :




 This is a Full++ being built to mate with a y2.
 I am testing it by connecting test leads between the boards. 
 The 4 test points show the correct voltage. 
 I have re-flowed the Cirrus chip and Wolfson chip, with the same result.
 USB works, it is recognized by Windows XP and the green light comes on when (and only when) there is a USB signal.

 The problem: there is either silence or noise. If there is silence, you get noise if you touch the resistor array closest to the Wolfson chip.

 Plugging in a wall wart doesn't change anything.
 Same problem with coax in (green light but intermittent noise).

 Any hints?

 Thanks!
 - Henrik


----------



## amb

Henrik, I don't see anything really obvious but there is a lot of flux residue. Try cleaning the boards really well and see if it makes any difference. Double check all solder joints again for good continuity.

 Power up, wait for a couple of seconds and then check the DC voltage at the node where R8D is connected to C21D (which leads to WM8501's ENABLE pin) to see if it's somewhere around 2.8-2.9V. Check the + pin of C22D to see if it's around half the analog supply voltage (i.e., if you used a TPS793475, then it should measure 2.38V). Same for the + pins of C24D and C25D. These voltage measurements are all relative to GND.

 If all these measure fine, and it still doesn't work, then possibly the WM8501 DAC chip or a portion of the CS8416 might be damaged (from ESD or maybe too much heat from soldering, who knows).

 Rather than replacing either of these, I suggest going ahead with your y2 first and see if you could get the y2 to work (when mated with the y1). If the y2 works, then the I2S bus is ok and therefore the CS8416 is ok. We could then isolate the problem to the WM8501.

 Oh by the way, don't shove wires down the pin receptacles that way. It might cause the contacts inside to be permanently deformed and make poor connections with the pin headers. If you want to test the y1, you could populate just the matching pin headers and receptacles on a blank y2 board and use it instead.


----------



## Henrik Nordberg

Yeah, I cleaned off the flux before testing so the flux there is where I reflowed.

 Thanks for your suggestions! Will try as soon as I get a chance.


----------



## Henrik Nordberg

WM8501's ENABLE pin = 2.55V
 C22D plus pin = 2.17V
 C25D plus pin = 2.23V
 C24D plus pin = 2.21V
 VBUS = 4.80V
 VCC = 5.20V
 USB 3.3V test point = 3.26V
 DAC 3.3V test point = 3.29V
 DAC 4.5V test point = 4.48V

 Time to cook dinner, hopefully back with this tonight.
 Back: Edit: I was in a bit of a rush and measured the wrong pin for C24D.

 Are these values too low? I am using a cheapo DMM from Harbor Freight...(it is currently $1.99 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) Will continue trouble shooting tomorrow.


----------



## amb

All your measurements look reasonable, so it appears the analog section within your WM8501 is ok at least. It's harder to determine whether the digital portion is working or not. It would require an oscilloscope to see what's happening on the I2S bus.

 My recommendation is as above -- try it with the y2 and see what happens.


----------



## Beefy

Quick question regarding powering the USB board......

 The y1 website says "If the USB board is used standalone as a USB-to-S/PDIF or USB-to-I²S converter (i.e., no DAC board attached), then the USB board can only be bus-powered"

 That seems to me to be just because you don't have the DAC board, rather than any other technical limitation. So when using the y1 as USB to SPDIF, is there anything stopping me powering the USB board from a separate LM317 regulator fed directly into VCC and GND?


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The y1 website says "If the USB board is used standalone as a USB-to-S/PDIF or USB-to-I²S converter (i.e., no DAC board attached), then the USB board can only be bus-powered"

 That seems to me to be just because you don't have the DAC board, rather than any other technical limitation._

 

Correct.

  Quote:


 So when using the y1 as USB to SPDIF, is there anything stopping me powering the USB board from a separate LM317 regulator fed directly into VCC and GND? 
 

You could do that and it would work fine.


----------



## Beefy

Thanks, as always!


----------



## fyleow

EDIT: Well I should really search before I post because my question has already been answered. Anyway, the Sharp part is listed as Obsolete on Digi-Key as well so I don't think they'll be getting more in. I guess the next board revision is going to need to accommodate a different part.


 *** old post ***
 Having a hard time sourcing the fiber optic transmitter. Digikey doesn't have the Sharp part in stock and Mouser is OOS as indicated on the gamma website. Newark has it but wants a $20 handling fee.

 I don't need the USB -> SPDIF per se but I'm planning on getting the gamma 12 front panel from amb so I'm going to have a huge hole where it should be aren't I?


----------



## amb

fyleow, you can go ahead and order it from Digikey and let them ship it to you when it becomes available again. Meanwhile, it's ok to leave that part unpopulated. The rest of the circuit will still work.


----------



## fyleow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_fyleow, you can go ahead and order it from Digikey and let them ship it to you when it becomes available again. Meanwhile, it's ok to leave that part unpopulated. The rest of the circuit will still work._

 

It's not possible to order the item from Digikey anymore. The description says "Obsolete item; call Digi-Key for more information." When I try to add it to my cart it says "Please Contact Digi-Key" and doesn't add it.


----------



## MisterX

I have a dozen or extras...
 Does $4.50 including shipping via first class mail sound reasonable to you?


----------



## fyleow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MisterX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a dozen or extras...
 Does $4.50 including shipping via first class mail sound reasonable to you? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That would be awesome YGPM.


----------



## amb

Sigh, those pesky optical transmitters. First the TOTX147PL goes obsolete, now the GP1FMV31TK0F too. I'll have to see what I could do to remedy that situation.


----------



## fyleow

Hmm multiple parts are OOS. The mini-B usb connector 538-54819-0519 and the TI logic AND gate 595-SN74AHC1G08DBVR are two that I've seen so far.

 The y2 is a bit better with the OPA2365AID OOS everywhere, but the AD part is available.

 Seems like manufacturers cut back a bit too much on production in anticipation of the great depression 2.0!


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fyleow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm multiple parts are OOS. The mini-B usb connector 538-54819-0519_

 

You can use 538-56579-0519

  Quote:


 and the TI logic AND gate 595-SN74AHC1G08DBVR 
 

You can use 595-SN74AHC1G08DBVRG4


----------



## fyleow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can use 538-56579-0519


 You can use 595-SN74AHC1G08DBVRG4_

 

Thanks.

 Can the TPS79333DBVR be substituted with the TPS79333DBVREP?


----------



## MisterX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fyleow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Can the TPS79333DBVR be substituted with the TPS79333DBVREP?_

 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/y1-...ml#post5289567


----------



## fyleow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MisterX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/y1-...ml#post5289567_

 

D'oh. Thanks.

 Just placed my order. First time doing SMD so this should be interesting. Can't wait to clear up some desk space by replacing my Zhoulu D2. This will be hooked up to an M^3 powered by an S11.


----------



## viction

Does anyone have a full config BOM for mouser? It would be very helpful!


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *viction* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone have a full config BOM for mouser? It would be very helpful!_

 

See "Parts list" section at The γ1 Modular Miniature DAC (Mouser, Digikey and other vendors' stock numbers listed).

 Most parts are available from Mouser except the fiber optic receiver and the Box Enclosures B2-080.


----------



## ShinyFalcon

Holding left-Ctrl and clicking the desired boxes can make it a breeze!

 Do take your time with the part selection. It sucks to have missing components and make two+ separate purchases. The y1's site's part list is well organized and easy to copy and paste!

 I guess I'll quote my Mouser project manager warning too...

  Quote:


 Just a warning for those who uses Mouser's project functionality... If you put y1 and y2 parts in separate projects, note that if the projects share components, those particular parts will not be additive when you add both projects to your shopping cart. In my case, I added y2's parts, then y1's parts, and ended up missing part for y2.


----------



## fyleow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ShinyFalcon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Holding left-Ctrl and clicking the desired boxes can make it a breeze!

 Do take your time with the part selection. It sucks to have missing components and make two+ separate purchases. The y1's site's part list is well organized and easy to copy and paste!

 I guess I'll quote my Mouser project manager warning too..._

 

I did this both ways in Mouser (y1 then y2 and vice versa) and had no issues. My shopping cart had components from both projects from a quick spot check at the pricing. The price for the order is slightly cheaper due to volume pricing.

 A quick spot check shows the Wolfson 8741 and the 80-C315C102J1G part which are unique to the y2 and y1 respectively both appear in the cart.


----------



## Billyk

Mouser's project manager is additive, so adding projects will not cancel out anything. I will however wreak havoc on your custom part numbers because it will overwrite them from one project to the next!


----------



## R4ABigman

Well I've finally finished my epic M3, O11, Y1 + extras build. And wow, it sounds amazing.

 The only one thing which I've not quite managed to nail down yet is a slight clicking/crackling sound I can hear when using the Y1. It rears its ugly head more on classical music (or at least it is more noticeable).

 I'm using the Coax input, with the output being fed directly into the M3. Headphones are Grado SR60is. M3 is powered by o11, and Y1 is on a separate linearly regulated supply. SPDIF is set to 96KHz.

 I should note I can't hear anything of the like when I drive the M3 directly (analogue) from the same source, so I'm convinced its something to do with either my source or the Y1.

 Any suggestions?


----------



## CodeToad

Just guessing but try running it on usb through asio4all and see if you still get the same problem.


----------



## ShinyFalcon

I think I know what you're talking about. I remember back in March with my y1 that I got crackles and pops with a 24-bit 96KHz file (upsampled by the Realtek to 192KHz), and significantly less with 96KHz but can still hear some occasional pops. Maybe I'll get that file again and test it to see if I can reproduce the problem again.


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *R4ABigman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm using the Coax input, with the output being fed directly into the M3. Headphones are Grado SR60is. M3 is powered by o11, and Y1 is on a separate linearly regulated supply. SPDIF is set to 96KHz._

 

What's producing the 96KHz stream? i.e., what source and what program material? Make sure the data isn't itself already clicky/crackly. Also what are you using as your S/PDIF interconnect cable?


----------



## R4ABigman

Thanks for your suggestions and comments -- you got me thinking more about my source software/drivers etc.

 After having a good play around with all my settings I found the source of my woes to be the "enable hardware mixing" being turned on in the DirectSound drivers.

 FYI:
 Winamp / Foobar 2000
 Realtek ALC888 HD Audio
 Using MP3/FLAC/WAV at various different bit rates

 Now everything sounds clear as crystal  I just need to hunt around the options in all the various different plug-ins for all my programs to turn hardware mixing off.

 @ShinyFalcon -- I was under the impression that the y1 can't handle 192kHz. Certainly mine doesn't like it much when I upsample and force output to that rate.


----------



## ShinyFalcon

Yes, I was aware of that. The y1 is limited to 96KHz circuitwise, but the WM8501 itself is capable of 192KHz. I thought that your symptoms were similar to mines, but seems like you nailed the problem to software/drivers.

 Where was "enable hardware mixing" found? I have the ALC883, running XP/Windows 7 RC.


----------



## CodeToad

I found it much easier to just run usb/asio4all than trying (guessing) if optical or coax was actually bit perfect. I like the idea of isolation using optical but the Asus D2 couldn't keep its hands off the signal no matter what and the onboard alc888/optical just doesn't sound as good as usb seems to. 

 As far as power goes, a usb powered device sounds like a neat idea, it just doesn't hold up to the capability of the DAC. It's like running a Formula 1 car on regular unleaded.


----------



## R4ABigman

I found it in the various plug-ins for direct sound. So, for example, in Winamp, it is in the preferences:

 Plug-ins->Output->Nullsoft DirectSound Output->Configure->"Allow hardware acceleration"

 However, that just affected WinAmp. I believe the way to disable it system wide is to run dxdiag (Start->Run->dxdiag) then go to the sound tab and move the slider to hardware disabled.



 EDIT: Since then I've got the latest audio drivers for my mobo, and full hardware acceleration works perfectly with no crackling. Worth sorting out, I'd say.


----------



## JamesL

Good news.. my y1's playing beautiful music again after relpacing u6d.

 This might be a stupid question, but I haven't had this problem before.
 Is there any reason why a bipolar LED shouldn't work off pins 4,5,6 on the toggle switch?
 I have tried a few(1,2) wired offboard, and I'm reading 4.5v and rled=220r; no illumination.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 All LEDs worked perfectly fine with 9v, and same current.


----------



## MisterX

Quote:


 Is there any reason why a bipolar LED shouldn't work off pins 4,5,6 on the toggle switch? 
 

Yes...the LED needs to have a common anode (both of the LEDs you posted links to have common cathodes which amounts to installing a standard LED backwards).


----------



## JamesL

damn, I didn't even notice that. I tested all my LEDs with the black wire to the cathode, and didn't think twice about measuring polarity. Thanks


----------



## fyleow

What initial checks can be performed on the y1 full++ configuration designed to be mated to a y2 board? The instructions say not to connect the two boards together when building the y1 full++ for the y2 since the y2 board makes the necessary connections. But I don't think I'll be able to do some of the initial checks without those connections done first.


----------



## amb

fyleow, if you want to test the y1 full++ first, just populate the board-mating headers and receptacles on the y2 board (J1, J2, J4, J5), plug it into the y1 and use it as the "bridge" for the two y1 halves.


----------



## MisterX

... it never fails.


----------



## Skubasteve

My DAC almost works, but has a few issues.

 I’ve built the full configuration, but have isolated the problem to the DAC board so I’m testing using the DAC board only with wallwart power supply, using the SPDIF RCA input.

 The DAC works fine for a few seconds after I plug in the power jack, but then the sound starts to quickly and randomly cut in and out. It keeps cutting in and out (and the switch changes colors accordingly at every cutout) and never stabilizes.

 I originally had a problem with the walwart power, as for some reason the D1 input on U1D (junction between R14D and R15D) only measures .3 volts with the walwart plugged in, even though I measure 5 volts entering R14D. I removed R14D and R15D, connected two new resistors in series between the 5V pad for R14D and the grounded side of R15D, and measured the desired 2.5 V (the junction between the two resistors was not connected to U1D). Since this circuit and resistors looked good, I went ahead and soldered these two resistors in, but once again measured .3V at D1. I removed R15D in order to feed 5V to D1 as a test, and again measured .3V at D1. I then removed R15D and jumpered JP2D pins 1 and 2. I’m now getting a steady 5 volts at U6D. I’m guessing this issue is independent of my cutout issue above but I’m not sure (do I need to replace U1D?).

 Any help on where I should be looking would be appreciated.


----------



## amb

Sounds like you have a problem around U1D. Try reflowing all its joints and make sure there are no solder bridges. If that doesn't fix it, then replace U1D.


----------



## fyleow

On U8D I bridged pins 1 and 2. I'm guessing that's bad and it needs to be fixed? Actually that's a dumb question. Looking at the data sheet pins 1 and 2 are the inputs so they probably do need to be separated.

 On the 8510 for pins like 8,11 and 13 I'm not getting low resistance when measured against ground. Should I be? The schematics show it connected to ground but there's also a +3.3/D and +4.5/A so I'm not sure.


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fyleow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On U8D I bridged pins 1 and 2. I'm guessing that's bad and it needs to be fixed? Actually that's a dumb question. Looking at the data sheet pins 1 and 2 are the inputs so they probably do need to be separated._

 

Just undo the bridge and all should be well.

  Quote:


 On the 8510 for pins like 8,11 and 13 I'm not getting low resistance when measured against ground. Should I be? The schematics show it connected to ground but there's also a +3.3/D and +4.5/A so I'm not sure. 
 

U3D pin 8 is the 4.5V rail, pins 11 and 13 are the 3.3V rail. Neither should be "ground". Are you counting the pin numbers correctly? Also, when measuring for shorts in ohms mode, your DMM would be charging the rail capacitors C7D and C11D, so you will momentarily get a low resistance reading but it should quickly change to "infinity" ("OL" or "1" on the display, depending on DMM brand). If they don't, then you probably have a solder bridge somewhere.

 Why are you measuring these pins? Do the 3.3V and 4.5V test points not give the correct voltages when powered up?


----------



## fyleow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just undo the bridge and all should be well.


 U3D pin 8 is the 4.5V rail, pins 11 and 13 are the 3.3V rail. Neither should be "ground". Are you counting the pin numbers correctly? Also, when measuring for shorts in ohms mode, your DMM would be charging the rail capacitors C7D and C11D, so you will momentarily get a low resistance reading but it should quickly change to "infinity" ("OL" or "1" on the display, depending on DMM brand). If they don't, then you probably have a solder bridge somewhere.

 Why are you measuring these pins? Do the 3.3V and 4.5V test points not give the correct voltages when powered up?_

 

No I'm not at the stage where I'm powering it up yet. I am just making sure that the surface mount components are soldered correctly. On through hole components I just check for continuity between the pad and the component lead, but the surface mount components are too tiny. So for example on U1D pin 3 I'll test the continuity between the component lead against the R15D pad.


----------



## Vynce

USB Mini-B jacks are back in stock at Mouser: 538-54819-0519. They have 3000 so we should be good for a while.

 Now I'm just waiting for OPA2365AID's to show up somewhere for the γ2. I guess I could just use the alternate part.


----------



## deerinheadlights

look on avnet they have 15 of the opa2365aid


----------



## fyleow

For U4D the description says MCP100-*315*DI/TO but the part number for Mouser says 579-MCP100-*300*DI/TO.

 I installed MCP100-315DI/TO and now I have a MCP100-300DI/TO leftover. What should be the right part in this position?


----------



## Beefy

They seem to be the same thing, but the 315 has a slightly higher threshold voltage (3.15V)..... so from what I can gather it doesn't do its thing until the voltage is a touch higher than the 300 (3.0V).

 The important part is not to get MCP100 and MCP101 parts mixed up.

 [EDIT] Reading the datasheet, the part is designed to keep the chip it is connected to in a reset state until the voltage hits a set voltage level. So they both do the same thing; the 300 takes the chip off reset at 3.0V, the 315 takes the chip off reset at 3.15V.


----------



## fyleow

Ok thanks. I just plugged in the y1 mated to the y2. When I measure the 5v closest to the edge of the USB board I get 4.9v which is fine. The 3.3v on the USB board measures about 2.3V. The 2nd 5v test pad measures 2.5V.

 The switch does illuminate red and my computer does detect a new device.


----------



## Beefy

By the second 5V point, do you mean the pad next to VCC? What about the 4.5V test point on the y1 DAC board?

 Oh, and do you have U1D and all associated parts populated?


----------



## fyleow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_By the second 5V point, do you mean the pad next to VCC? What about the 4.5V test point on the y1 DAC board?

 Oh, and do you have U1D and all associated parts populated?_

 

Yes the pad right next to VCC. The 4.5V test point on the y1 measures 3.5V as well.

 I have U1D populated.


----------



## Beefy

So that all means you are getting power on USB, but that power isn't through U1D.

 Either your VBUS and GND connections between boards are bad, U1D is soldered poorly, or U1D may be toast.


----------



## fyleow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So that all means you are getting power on USB, but that power isn't through U1D.

 Either your VBUS and GND connections between boards are bad, U1D is soldered poorly, or U1D may be toast._

 

Is it possible to jumper VBUS and VCC and test the 3.3v and 5v just to make sure that part is fine?


----------



## Beefy

Absolutely. Just put a jumper cap over VCC and VBUS on the USB board, and you can test the USB board alone.

 [EDIT] Interesting. The 1.01 y1 board has _heaps_ more vias than the 1.00 PCB.


----------



## fyleow

I just tested the USB board alone and the measurements are fine. Testing the U1D connections on my multimeter checks out too. Really hope the chip isn't toast


----------



## Beefy

Well I can't see anything obvious from the photos, but I'm out of my depth for actually testing U1D. So you will have to wait for AMB or MisterX to lend a hand.


----------



## fyleow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I can't see anything obvious from the photos, but I'm out of my depth for actually testing U1D. So you will have to wait for AMB or MisterX to lend a hand. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeah I guess I'll wait for one of them to pop in. Thanks for the help though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I went ahead and tested the USB board's functionality and it works fine converting the USB to coaxial digital and optical out just fine. That's good news I guess.


----------



## MisterX

I would connect a power supply to a "broken adapter" hook up the meter, plug it in and then measure the current draw of the DAC section. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Maybe just clean up the soldering on U5D, U6D and U8D then see what you get?


----------



## fyleow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MisterX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would connect a power supply to a "broken adapter" hook up the meter, plug it in and then measure the current draw of the DAC section. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Maybe just clean up the soldering on U5D, U6D and U8D then see what you get?_

 

I tried to clean up U5D, U6D, and U8D but no luck so far. Going to have to purchase a walwart as I don't have one on hand that has the right plug size.

 Would problems on my y2 board be the cause of any of this? Or is it a separate issue for now?


----------



## MisterX

Quote:


 Would problems on my y2 board be the cause of any of this? 
 

Could be. 
 Do you have another way to connect the two Gamma 1 sections together?


----------



## amb

Check to make sure your y2's X1 oscillator isn't mounted backwards. That would cause an excessive high current draw and load down the supply.


----------



## fyleow

X1 looks mounted correctly to me. I'm actually a bit worried about that one since I'm not 100% sure if it's correct.

 Some minor success to report. I have connected the 2 y1 boards with hookup wire and the voltages are looking better.

 The 3.3v, 5v, and 4.5v (read 4.75v) checks out. Ok, I plugged the y1 into the M^3 and it plays music fine. So it looks like the y2 board is the culprit here.


----------



## Beefy

Heh, I was wrong then. Not the first time, and sure as hell won't be the last


----------



## nemmo

Just a quick question. How much is the most complete version of the y1?


----------



## amb

nemmo, your cost will vary depending on where you buy your parts from. You can use the parts list at the y1 website and add some numbers together yourself at your favorite parts vendors' websites.


----------



## mattcalf

Just a quick notice, as I'm intently following my Mouser BOM waiting until the day I can order (backorder isn't holding me back, just letting people know
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




): 

 The 1.5kohm resistor for R16D and R2U (#270-1.5K-RC) is currently out of stock should be back in December.

 Also T1D and T1U transformer (#580-DA101C) is out and looking at mid-December return.


----------



## linuxworks

you can use this for the pulse trafo:

 673-PE-65612

 more expensive but its a very old (standard, tried and true) part. I have a bunch of those from years ago and they are the go-to part for me, wrt coax.


----------



## amb

mattcalf, you can use Mouser 660-MFS1/4D52R1501F for the 1.5K resistors.
 As linuxworks says, 673-PE-65612 is also good for T1D and T1U.


----------



## mattcalf

Thanks both of you.


----------



## Dan55

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ You can use 595-SN74AHC1G08DBVRG4_

 

I'm having trouble finding this part (U2U) on Mouser - the closest I see is SN74AHC1G00DBVRG4 

 Also, am I correct that there are no suitable replacements from Mouser atm for U5U and U7D? Can I omit these parts for the time being?

 Thanks!


----------



## MisterX

U2U = 771-AHC1G08GV125
 Oops...
 There never was a suitable solution for U5U or U7D available from Mouser.


----------



## Dan55

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MisterX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_U2U = 771-AHC1G08GV125
 Oops...
 There never was a suitable solution for U5U or U7D available from Mouser. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Got it. Thanks.


----------



## MisterX

Thanks be to AMB, he is the one that dug up the replacement for U2U. 
 FWIW it appears the TOTX147PL is available directly from Newark again.


----------



## fishski13

i posted awhile back that i was getting white noise with the y-1 (S/PDIF build only) inside a CK2III/preamp when the pot was turned past 2 o'clock - only with coaxial or optical, with the analog inputs dead silent. here's a pic: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5814696-post5292.html. i used a remote Grayhill rotary switch for switching duties between the analog and digital inputs.

 with audio only CDs, 10 o'clock is really loud with lower impedance HPs. but with DVDs, the volume needs to be turned up to 2 o'clock (i have no idea why), right where the white noise appears. 

 the y-1 was powered by an LM7805 off of the CK2III PS. i decided to try powering the y-1 with a wall-wart (per the BOM) instead. still white noise. so i ripped the y-1 out and placed it inside a Hammond aluminum chassis (per BOM) and placed it about 1 ft away from the preamp. for testing purposes, the analog output was soldered to 2 RCAs (L and R) to mate with the preamp analog inputs - and i soldered the switch pad common 2 to pad 1 together with a snipped/scrap resistor lead. i hooked up the coaxial to my DVD player, and i still get white noise at 2 o'clock. it sounds great otherwise.

 i have R11D soldered in for the NKK switch, but am not using the switch at the moment. also, i don't have the ends of the Hammond chassis screwed on. otherwise, everything is per BOM.

 what am i missing?


----------



## amb

fishski13, sounds like there is simply too much gain in your CK²III for your headphones, so the intrinsic noise floor in the DAC got sufficiently amplified to become audible. As for why your DVDs are so much quieter, I couldn't say. Are you playing CDs and DVDs on the same player? If so, then maybe something in the player itself (i.e., different digital gain depending on the type of disc and mode)?


----------



## deerinheadlights

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MisterX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks be to AMB, he is the one that dug up the replacement for U2U. 
 FWIW it appears the TOTX147PL is available directly from Newark again._

 

Careful. There used to be a $20.00 directship handling fee warning on the item page. I placed the order and thinking I avoided the fee. Then they send the order confirmation email and there is an extra charge and the transmitter is a special order item.


----------



## fishski13

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_fishski13, sounds like there is simply too much gain in your CK²III for your headphones, so the intrinsic noise floor in the DAC got sufficiently amplified to become audible. As for why your DVDs are so much quieter, I couldn't say. Are you playing CDs and DVDs on the same player? If so, then maybe something in the player itself (i.e., different digital gain depending on the type of disc and mode)?_

 

i was chalking up the CD vs. DVD differences to mastering, but will check into it further.

 HPs are AKG K601 and 271 - around 55 ohms.

 as far as gain of the CK2III is concerned, it's at the default 9x. any recommendations for gain and C5,C6,C14,C15? will i be able to knock down the white noise while still giving me enough travel on the pot for volume?

 thanks!


----------



## amb

Just try the alternate gain of 4.1 (see CK²III website parts list descriptions). It should still be good for a large variety of headphones (except IEMs).


----------



## fishski13

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just try the alternate gain of 4.1 (see CK²III website parts list descriptions). It should still be good for a large variety of headphones (except IEMs)._

 


 will do. 

 i have 825R, but no 22pF caps. assuming adequate board space, how high can i go with the caps? i think i have some 0.1uF lying around.

 EDIT: i also found some 0.0039uF MKT.


----------



## amb

No, you will kill all high frequency response with 0.1uF. Stick with 22pF for that gain configuration. The value is optimized for that gain. Too little capacitance and you may run into instability, too much capacitance and it will hurt bandwidth.


----------



## fishski13

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, you will kill all high frequency response with 0.1uF. Stick with 22pF for that gain configuration. The value is optimized for that gain. Too little capacitance and you may run into instability, too much capacitance and it will hurt bandwidth._

 

copy that.


----------



## Sathimas

Hi there,

 I just finished my y1 and ... well ... it does not work 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 USB-Board works fine, readings are ok.
 Windows 7 recognizes the board and installs it.

 I also tested for short circuits as advised, readings are ok too.
 (measuring rising values when I connect the probes, going from high kilo-ohms megaohms)

 Connections between the boards are ok too, zero ohms at all pins.

 Now my problem is that I have no DC voltage on the 3.3V test point and only about 177mVs on the 4.5V test point.

 I already resoldered all the throughhole-pins with no result.
 Could this be some cold solder joint?


----------



## MisterX

Do you have any pictures?


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sathimas* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...
 I already resoldered all the throughhole-pins with no result.
 Could this be some cold solder joint?_

 

Try reflowing the voltage regulator chips' solder joints (U5D, U6D).


----------



## Sathimas

I just resoldered U5 and U6
 __
 1 -| |-4
 2 -| |
 3 -|_ |-5

 The sceme above shows the regulator.
 Pins 1,4 and 5 have good connection to the next parts on the board,
 between pins 2 and 3 i'm measuring very high resistance - should be correct.

 Still no effect eccept that I now have 31mV on the 4.5V test point...


----------



## amb

You should have continuity between pins 1 and 3. Measure at the top of the pin where it comes out of the package.


----------



## Sathimas

I just checked it - got zero ohms between pins 1 and 3 on U5D, but not continuity between 1 and 3 on U6D.

 What consequence does this have?


----------



## cobaltmute

Pin 3 is the enable pin - if not pulled high (same voltage as pin 1), the regulator shuts down.


----------



## amb

If you're not getting continuity between pins 1 and 3, then you need to reflow the solder joints on those pins.


----------



## Sathimas

ok, took me some time and several approaches but I now have continuity between pins 1 and 3..... 

 but still reading zero Volts on both test points.


----------



## ShinyFalcon

Check your U1 for any bridges and orientation.

 Check voltage between JP2D pin 3 (not the square) and ground with the halves attached. Do you get 5V there?


----------



## Vynce

I'm having problems with bubbling solder joints on the Mini³'s that I'm building. I'm posting this question in the γ1 thread because I can't find an "official" Mini³ thread and I expect I'll run into the same issue on the γ1 when I get to building it.

 I consider myself to be fairly experienced with soldering and have built many projects, but I haven't encountered this bubbling joint problem before. On many of the joints, gas bubbles up through the solder while I'm holding the iron against the joint (this is the actual molten solder bubbling, not the flux boiling). The joint continues to bubble a bit after removing the iron which sometimes causes a cold, misshapen, or incomplete joint. This doesn't happen on every joint. For example, it happened on R6, but not R7 (on the Mini³). I don't know if this is flux inside the joint that is boiling or air being sucked up from the other side of the board. The joints continue to bubble as long as the solder is molten.

 I have a Weller WESD51 soldering station set to 550F most of the time. I bump the temperature up to 650F for some of the ground plane joints. The bubbling still occurs at higher temperatures. I'm using Kester 44 solder.

 Perhaps this is nothing to worry about, but I just don't feel confident about the joints that bubble. Has anyone else experienced bubbling joints? Does anyone have any ideas about what's going on and how to prevent it?


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Vynce* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a Weller WESD51 soldering station set to 550C most of the time. I bump the temperature up to 650C for some of the ground plane joints. The bubbling still occurs at higher temperatures. I'm using Kester 44 solder._

 

550-650*C*? That's not right...... 550-650*F* perhaps.

 In any case, I usually solder at 700F with Kester 63/37.


----------



## Vynce

Doh, yeah I meant 550-650F.

 So maybe I should try cranking up the temperature some more.


----------



## CodeToad

I've also found regular board work to go better at 700 with eutectic while I find 650 ok for IC's


----------



## Vynce

Increasing the temperature to 700F made absolutely no difference 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. The solder on the top side of the board also bubbles, but in the opposite direction -- like it's being sucked to the heat source on the bottom side of the board. It bubbles no matter which side of the board I heat the joint from. Adding additional liquid flux makes no difference. This seems to happen most frequently with the resistors. I wonder if it has something to do with component lead diameter (?).


----------



## amb

The "bubbling" is simply the flux boiling off -- absolutely normal.


----------



## Vynce

No, I'm pretty sure that there's more going on here than flux boiling. It still happens if I clean the flux off the board and reheat a joint.


----------



## amb

Capillary action through the hole? I think you're worrying too much. As long as the resultant joint looks clean and shiny, and you measure good connectivity, then all should be well.


----------



## Vynce

Yeah, it's probably something like that. The joints appear to be ok and the Mini³ passed all of its tests fine, so I guess I won't worry about it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. It's still kind of unsettling though. I wish I could get a video of it.


----------



## Sathimas

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ShinyFalcon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Check your U1 for any bridges and orientation.

 Check voltage between JP2D pin 3 (not the square) and ground with the halves attached. Do you get 5V there?_

 

ok, U1 is in correct orientation, no bridges - except between pins 1 and 2 (sceme on AMB.org).
 But this should be ok.

 voltage between JP2D pin 3 (not the square) and ground:

 5Volts ...


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sathimas* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ok, U1 is in correct orientation, no bridges - except between pins 1 and 2 (sceme on AMB.org).
 But this should be ok._

 

U1D pin 1 should _not_ be connected to pin 2. Pin 1 should be floating. Pin 2 is to ground.

  Quote:


 voltage between JP2D pin 3 (not the square) and ground:

 5Volts ... 
 

OK, this just means you have 5V coming from USB. What's the voltage at JP2D pad 2? It should be 5V also.


----------



## Sathimas

Pictures of the boards, could not take them earlier.

 I'll try to eliminate the brigde between the pins.


----------



## amb

Not that it matters for your USB power problem, but where is R14D/R15D? You have the 1.3mm power jack installed, so these two resistors should be populated in order for external power to work.


----------



## Sathimas

The biggest problem is that this little thing has been soldered to about 95%
 about 3 or 4 months ago. I set one of the regulators to a wrong position
 and gave it to a friend of mine who corrected that error...

 So I forgot a lot of things, especially what parts belonged where and so on.
 ________________________

 About the missing resistors - would it work without them if the jack was not installed?
 I will not use it but the BOM says that I have to install it.

 I got the parts from a person here in Germany who ordered the components
 for a bigger group of people - so maybe the resistors where simply missing
 from the beginning.


----------



## amb

R14D/R15D is not required if you're only going to use USB power. They _are_ required if you're going to use external power through the DC power jack.


----------



## fishski13

good news: i dropped the gain on the CK2III to 4.1x and have pushed the floor noise level down without much penalty on the pot travel. before, the white noise was barely audible at 1 o'clock, now it's at 3 o'clock. 2 o'clock is still plenty loud for watching DVDs - CDs are at 10-12 o'clock driving my K271 mkii. since there was no difference in noise when the y-1 in the preamp/CK2III and enclosed outside, i threw the y-1 back in the chassis. i'm a happy bunny and so is the friend i built this for.

 once again, thanks Ti!!!


----------



## Dan55

Looks like I forgot the 22ohm resistors in my BOM (R1U,R3U). Any chance I can get away with 10ohms here? I am planning to use USB power. Thanks!


----------



## amb

See the following post about building a σ25 PSU for use with γ1:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/6169217-post996.html


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fordgtlover* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been doing some tests using different output capacitors. While I'm still undecided about which ones I prefer, I thought I would share a tip with other builders.

 It was suggested to me by a reliable source to try the y1 without the output bypass caps (C26D, C27D). After listening to this configuration for the past week or so I am convinced that this is an improvement._

 

A bit old but has anyone else tried this and got positive improvements as well?


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A bit old but has anyone else tried this and got positive improvements as well?_

 

This depends on subjective preference, the specific selection of caps, and perhaps what other equipment you're using in the chain. There is no simple, all-encompassing answer to this. Feel free to experiment and listen for yourself.


----------



## ShinyFalcon

Would jumpering across the cap allow for a temporary bypass of the bypass cap?


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ShinyFalcon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would jumpering across the cap allow for a temporary bypass of the bypass cap?_

 

No. Doing that would short circuit the cap and defeat its DC-blocking function. You'll have massive DC offset at the output (~2.3V)!


----------



## ShinyFalcon

I was talking particularly about C26 and C27, while leaving

 Never mind, I see why now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This depends on subjective preference, the specific selection of caps, and perhaps what other equipment you're using in the chain. There is no simple, all-encompassing answer to this. Feel free to experiment and listen for yourself._

 

Thanks ti. I'm pretty happy with the sound so I'm going to leave the caps unbypassed for now.


----------



## jamesbobo007

Ready to order the parts for this project and need a little help!!
 Anyone have a good substitute for theSN74AHC1G08DBVR, its the U2U AND gate? It seems to be OOS at Mouser, Digikey and Newark. Seems like all the alternates are back ordered also. I cant find anything in the SOT-23 in stock.
 Can I use the AHCT (TTL level) part? or how hard would it be to use a SC-70 part?


----------



## amb

See posts #990 and #991 in the γ2 thread:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/6164227-post990.html


----------



## jamesbobo007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_See posts #990 and #991 in the γ2 thread:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/6164227-post990.html_

 

Wonderful. Thank you.


----------



## Dan55

After placing an order to acquire parts I forgot on the first round, I think I have this time forgotten C8 (conductive polymer electrolytic low-ESR capacitor 47µF 10V). I have to place another order eventually for an enclosure, but I'm wondering if I might be able to use an alternative capacitor in the meantime.

 The only polymer low-ESR cap I have is 220uF and 6.3V. I also have a couple of 220uF 25V aluminum capacitors. Would either of these values work at C8? (I'm not sure what low-ESR means, but I'd be happy to learn 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 Anyway, thanks to AMB and MisterX; it was a really fun build. I just hope I get to listen to it one day...


----------



## MisterX

Do either of the caps you mentioned fit the board? 

Equivalent series resistance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Dan55

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MisterX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do either of the caps you mentioned fit the board? 

Equivalent series resistance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia_

 

They both fit the board pretty nicely. My understanding of capacitors at the moment is pretty much limited to the notion that they "store" energy, so that a larger capacitor causes the LED in my extremely basic breadboard circuit to stay on longer when I disconnect the battery 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. So I'm obviously not sure how to determine what value cap is needed here.

 Also, before I noticed that I was missing C8, I did hook up the USB board. The voltages checked out, but the computer did not recognize the board. I don't think this could be attributable to C8, so I'm guessing I have some more troubleshooting to do?

 edit: I added a radioshack cap (35v 47uF) for purposes of testing and reflowed some joints, but the computer is still not recognizing the board. I'd appreciate any suggestions.


----------



## Dan55

Saturday night DIY bump


----------



## amb

My standard answer for these kinds of issues is to check and reflow your solder joints. In your case I would focus on U1U and U2U, but you should check the others too.


----------



## Dan55

Yes, I guess my SMD (and schematic-reading) skills need some work. Its working nicely now and sounds beautiful. Thanks for the guidance.


----------



## R4ABigman

Hello there again.

 My Gamma 1 was sounding amazing, but stopped working a few weeks back (randomly). After pulling everything apart, the symptoms are a short from +5VDC to GND. I don't really know where to start with trying to diagnose this issue.

 I've given it a good visual inspection, but cannot see any crossed-joints or foreign objects to cause the short. Is there a good approach to trying to find the problem area, or do I just need to start desoldering everything?


----------



## ShinyFalcon

Separate the halves and see if the short is on the USB or the DAC board. Check U2U, U1D, U5D, U6D for any bridged pins.


----------



## fishski13

with #2 baby due in a few weeks, it's time for me to give up the dedicated hi-fi room. i'm setting up new digs in the office in the basement and figured it would be a good time to go with a computer for source. 

 my computer desk is on a wall perpendicular to the hi-fi rack. i'm wondering, what length of coaxial cable can the y-1 drive for S/PDIF? i will be using only the USB to S/PDIF board from the computer to my Benchmark DAC1. or would it be better to run a longer length of a USB cable. i need about 12ft. i'm also going to buy a 1T external hard drive.

 thanks!


----------



## Gilly

With good quality cable, I can't see 12ft being a problem.

 Could you use Coaxial cable, maybe DIY it? I'm going to probibly use CT100 grade (much better than RG69 for TV/ Satellite signals) co-ax, and give it a try.


----------



## amb

12 ft. is not a problem if you use proper 75 ohm cabling.


----------



## fishski13

thanks Gilly and amb!

 i've read the y-1 site, but i still have a couple of other questions:
 -with USB to S/PDIF only, the y-1 is powered by the computer USB and no external 5V is necessary? will ULED still fire? 
 -pins 2-3 should be permanently shorted on JP2D?


----------



## MisterX

Quote:


 -with USB to S/PDIF only, the y-1 is powered by the computer USB and no external 5V is necessary? 
 

If you wish.

  Quote:


 will ULED still fire? 
 

Yes. 

  Quote:


 -pins 2-3 should be permanently shorted on JP2D? 
 

If the DAC board is omitted you will not have any power if you do not install a jumper or some other mechanism to connect J2U pin 1 to J2U pin 2.


----------



## fishski13

so, if i don't have a DAC board:
 -i can only power from the host USB - if i want to power from an external 5V source, i would need the DAC board with U1D? i do have a regulated 5V wall-wart lying around though. is there anyway i can use this?
 -i leave J3U open as this is the umbilical to the DAC board and not necessary for stand-alone USB operation.
 -jumper pins 1-2 of J2U together for bus power return.


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fishski13* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so, if i don't have a DAC board:
 -i can only power from the host USB - if i want to power from an external 5V source, i would need the DAC board with U1D?_

 

The DC power jack is on the DAC board portion... so yes, you need to populate U1D and its surrounding parts: L4D, C1D, R14D-R16D. You also need J4D to allow the power return to the USB board.

  Quote:


 -i leave J3U open as this is the umbilical to the DAC board and not necessary for stand-alone USB operation. 
 

Correct - you don't need this for only USB-to-S/PDIF conversion, as this is used to carry the S/PDIF or I2S signals to the DAC board.

  Quote:


 -jumper pins 1-2 of J2U together for bus power return. 
 

No, you should not jumper J2U if you're going to have the DAC board mated to the USB board.


----------



## fishski13

got it. thanks Ti! i hope my computer isn't too noisy via the USB. i would have it up and running tonight but Mouser screwed up my order...again.


----------



## Hob Hayward

*Sigh* more problems...

 I had working usb for months, then the light on the toggle stopped coming on when usb was selected (but it would still output sound perfectly fine from all inputs, and light up when spdif and optical were used). I tried to fix that, but nothing seemed to help. I gave up because it was otherwise working fine. 

 Now for no apparent reason when the DAC is plugged into a computer under windows it comes up with a message saying that the USB device has malfunctioned. I can't imagine whats gone wrong, and I plan to test everything I can when I get some free time tomorrow, but does anyone have any idea why the usb would just stop working? I have a feeling that maybe the mini usb connector was damaged somehow, but I'm not sure.

 Thanks! and Merry Christmas all!


----------



## amb

Hob Howard, check all your solder joints (particularly U2D, U8D, U1U and U2U). A marginal joint could "work" fine for some time and then become non-conductive.


----------



## fishski13

screw the USB to S/PDIF only build - i just ordered parts for a y-2 and o-11. hopefully i can sell my BM DAC1 to free up some cash 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## mattcalf

I'm having start-up problems. And as per AMB's website I've been through and looked for cold joints/short circuits as best I can and I've re-soldered a few points just to make sure.

 Just a few notes, as a result of me not being able to comprehend simple instructions  I have no J4U and have jumpered L3U and R7U.

 I haven't jumpered to the DAC board yet, however, testing the USB board hasn't been succesful so I'll worry about that first.

 The first 5v is reading fine, the second 5v starts at about 1.2v and declines and the first 3.3v is bumming around down near 0.01v. -.-

 Let me know if photo's will help,
 thanks.


----------



## amb

mattcalf, R7U (and LEDU) need not be installed at all (no jumpers) for a γ2 build. But these are not likely to be a problem for you.

 If by "first" and "second" 5V you refer to the 5V test pads near J2U's VBUS and VCC, then you probably forgot to put a jumper across those two pins. The jumper is needed when you're testing the USB board without the DAC board mated.


----------



## mattcalf

Ti, you're brilliant! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 All three voltages on the USB board check out and my computer recognized the USB DAC connected. 

 Now shall replace J5D (melted it while resoldering U3U) and populate the gamma2 board tomorrow. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	













 THANK YOU!!


----------



## mattcalf

Finished the gamma2, everything fits together swell. Is there any 1uf 63v cap I can take off the gamma1 and give to the gamma2 (C26)? Buying an extra one from farnell would set me back AU$25 ($5 each, min. order 5) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Again a mistake on my part has left me with one less. I don't plan to use anything other then USB in RCA out for the foreseeable future.

 Thanks in advance. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*EDIT:* Is it safe to do the initial testing from AMB's website without C26 there?


----------



## amb

mattcalf, C26 is a 22uF audio grade eletrolytic cap, not 1uF.

 If you mean C25, and you won't be using the S/PDIF outputs on the front panel, you could steal γ1's C11U. And yes, it's "safe" to test without C25 in that nothing would be damaged, but if C19 is populated then your two channels will be mismatched.


----------



## linuxworks

are you looking to move one of the 'red wimas' over?

 iirc, there is one on the spdif port, somewhere. that does not have to be an 'audio quality' cap. that could be anything.

 edit: haha, amb and I posted the exact same reply at the exact same time. lol!


----------



## ramus

Is it dangerous to drive headphones directly out of y1?

 Thanks


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ramus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it dangerous to drive headphones directly out of y1?

 Thanks_

 

No, it's not dangerous, see the y1 website, under "parts list". You need to use software volume control since y1 doesn't have one. Also, the output coupling capacitors need to be increased to 470uF if you plan to drive low-Z headphones.


----------



## mattcalf

Alright thanks for that, having a problem with the combo no longer being picked up by windows and on second attempt it seems that the input selector switch no longer shows colour. I can see a faint hint of red, however, when I first tested both boards together the red was strong and obvious.

 My second problem is gamma2 specific but I'll post it here to save trouble. The 4.5v on the gamma2 only reads about .1v. I have a feeling this should be caused by U1, so I'll check my soldering job on it.

 Also my jumper pin on the gamma1 (JP1D) to gamma2 (J3) might be a little bit short , (1mm, 2mm max.) could this be causing any problems?


----------



## MisterX

Quote:


 Also my jumper pin on the gamma1 (JP1D) to gamma2 (J3) might be a little bit short , (1mm, 2mm max.) could this be causing any problems? 
 

Possibly, check the 5 volt test points again and see if the readings would account for the other symptoms you have described. 
 (the voltage can be pulled low enough that nothing else will work if U1 is short circuited)


----------



## mattcalf

Replaced the pin to full size now, other voltages are dropping low.

 Will go over the boards and re-solder any suspect joints.


----------



## MisterX

Now would be a good time for some pictures if you have them.


----------



## mattcalf

I didn't think they'd turn out too well, luckily my brother's camera takes some half-decent digital ISO pictures.

 It looks rather messy and I haven't got around to a DSE, which is the reason for so much flux residue. Man, flux is great.. really didn't think it'd make that much of a difference but that stuff is magic. As is desoldering braid! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Click for pics:
Both Boards
Half of the Gamma2
Other Half
Gamma1 USB
Gamma1 DAC
Gamma1 [top]
Gamma1 [bottom]
Gamma2 [top]
Gamma2 [bottom]

 Thanks again.


----------



## PScal

Did you use the WM8741 or WM8742 DAC on your gamma 2? If so, U6 should be omitted (see note 1 on the gamma 2 parts list). However, if you used WM8740, you are ok


----------



## m1abrams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PScal* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you use the WM8741 or WM8742 DAC on your gamma 2? If so, U6 should be omitted (see note 1 on the gamma 2 parts list). However, if you used WM8740, you are ok 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

That is a good point because if he is using an 8740 part then why does he have a Filter switch? The 8740 does not have selectable filters.


----------



## mattcalf

WM8741GEDS is the part I see at U5, will get right to omitting U6. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Thanks for picking that up.


----------



## MisterX

U6 would not make the DAC not work. 

 The only top side picture of the Gamma 2 is taken at an angle that doesn't really allow us to see U1. 

 Top down images tend to work a little better...
 What I do is stand the board on it's edge, set the camera down on the table, disable the flash, enable macro mode and then snap the picture. 

 Here is an example----> 

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...e/DSC00505.jpg


----------



## mattcalf

Are there any photos you'd like me to take specifically extra? I.E. Highligting any part of the board?
 Read your post, uploading pictures of the gamma2 U1 and U2 specifically. 

 Another question: Do both holes @ J3 need to goto the other two holes JP1D? Or is it just pin 2 of JP1D to the corresponding at J3?


----------



## mattcalf

U1, U2 and a general shot while on it's side.


----------



## MisterX

See how much better that works? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Put you meter in ohms mode and measure between the top of the crystal and each one of the through hole pads on the Gamma 2 board (the solder on the crystal appears to be piled up awfully high).

  Quote:


 Another question: Do both holes @ J3 need to goto the other two holes JP1D? Or is it just pin 2 of JP1D to the corresponding at J3? 
 

Actually reading the instructions FTW. 

  Quote:


 •If your γ1 is the Full (A), S/PDIF-only (E) or Full++ (F) configuration, then the "leftover" pin from the supplied SIP-9 header should be installed in γ1's JP1D pin 2 (round pad), to mate with the matching receptacle at γ2's J3 (see picture below).


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mattcalf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ADo both holes @ J3 need to goto the other two holes JP1D? Or is it just pin 2 of JP1D to the corresponding at J3?_

 

Only pin 2 needs to be connected, although no harm done if you connect both pins.


----------



## nickosha

After having the parts but not doing it for nearly 3 months, I decided to use my holiday vacation to attempt building the gamma 1. Well I've found out that if you do it right, SMD soldering isn't too bad. But once you mess up, it can quickly get frustrating. I have most of the SMD parts done (and hopefully not fried ), but there are a few places where I have bridges connecting pins. Any tips on fixing that? 

 I thought that perhaps solder wick might be the best solution, but it's not really cooperating like I'd like it to. More specifically, the solder underneath seems to take forever to melt and I'm hesitant to hold the iron down for a long time. 

 Also, I think I _*may*_ be missing a cheap part (R7D a resistor network), but I'll worry about that after I get the SMD stuff done, since I'll probably start becoming busy with homework again, anyways.


----------



## MisterX

Quote:


 there are a few places where I have bridges connecting pins. Any tips on fixing that? 
 


 Add flux, heat both pins and then wick it away with a quick stroke of your soldering iron.

 Another one is.. take a break when you find yourself becoming frustrated.


----------



## francisdemarte

I just completed building my first y1. It was my 2nd project after a psu. I realized that I had misaligned the square PCM2707 chip too late after 2 sides where soldered on. Removing it was frustrating! After several failed attempts with flux, solder and the iron I finally fluxed both sides, put the board on its side, heated it with a creme brulee' torch while pushing against the chip. It popped off easily.

 I though I had fried the chip with all the heat, but after carefully soldering back in it now works flawlessly and sounds great!

 Tip is to be very careful soldering those smb components.


----------



## m1abrams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *francisdemarte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just completed building my first y1. It was my 2nd project after a psu. I realized that I had misaligned the square PCM2707 chip too late after 2 sides where soldered on. Removing it was frustrating! After several failed attempts with flux, solder and the iron I finally fluxed both sides, put the board on its side, heated it with a creme brulee' torch while pushing against the chip. It popped off easily.

 I though I had fried the chip with all the heat, but after carefully soldering back in it now works flawlessly and sounds great!

 Tip is to be very careful soldering those smb components._

 

Wow glad that worked! Good job with the torch.


----------



## amb

Hint: Use Chip Quik to desolder a multi-pin SMD part. Digi-Key also sells it, the part number is SMD1-ND.


----------



## fordgtlover

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *francisdemarte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just completed building my first y1. It was my 2nd project after a psu. I realized that I had misaligned the square PCM2707 chip too late after 2 sides where soldered on. Removing it was frustrating! After several failed attempts with flux, solder and the iron I finally fluxed both sides, put the board on its side, *heated it with a creme brulee' torch* while pushing against the chip. It popped off easily.

 I though I had fried the chip with all the heat, but after carefully soldering back in it now works flawlessly and sounds great!

 Tip is to be very careful soldering those smb components._

 

Awesome


----------



## francisdemarte

Thanks! You should try my Creme Brulee' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Here's where I got the idea from:

How to De-Solder surface mount ICs

 Secret is keep the torch at distance, keep it moving, try to heat only the pins, and flux...lots of it. If I had Chip Quick on hand I'd use it but I didn't and I was at wits end.

 Anyway thanks to Ti and everyone who contributed to this forum my Gamma2 is up and running and sounds fantastic!


----------



## itsborken

I picked up a gamma1++ and am getting ready to start the gamma2. On a whim I checked optical and found it doesn't work yet the usb and coax function properly. Any recommendations on what I should be checking to get the base up to spec?


----------



## amb

1. Make sure the problem isn't in your optical source.
 2. The only difference between coax and optical input is U7D, L1D, C12D, C14D and a different input at U2D, controlled by SW1D and associated stuff.


----------



## itsborken

Thanks, that shouldn't be too hard to track down and fix. The source is good; I tested it with a ibasso D1 to confirm that and the cabling were fine.


----------



## ShinyFalcon

If I want to use a 2-color LED (like 604-WP937EGW), do I attach the leads to pins 5 and 6/4 (direct replacement of the toggle switch)? I'm making an educated guess, but I'm thinking Q1 and Q2 completes the path to ground depending on audio status. From the schematics it looks like the LEDs on the NKK toggle switch are two separate LEDs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I want to experiment with a LED like this or one of those Belkin bi-illuminated toggle switches. Planning on integrating a σ25/σ24 and a y1/y2 in one case... I don't like multiple cases splattered all over my desk.

 Edit: Reworded everything


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ShinyFalcon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I want to use a 2-color LED (like 604-WP937EGW), do I attach the leads to pins 5 and 6/4 (direct replacement of the toggle switch)? I'm making an educated guess, but I'm thinking Q1 and Q2 completes the path to ground depending on audio status. From the schematics it looks like the LEDs on the NKK toggle switch are two separate LEDs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The LED you linked will not work in the γ1. A 3-terminal, common-anode LED (or two separate LEDs) could be used, but this one is a 2-terminal reverse-parallel configuration. See the γ1 schematic.


----------



## mooseguy

My boards should be here tomorrow 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm rather annoyed though, I ended up getting charged £37 import duty on a parcel barely more expensive than that... My Mouser order came quickly with no trouble, but this with USPS took twice as long and came to twice the price...

 The service from AMB, however, was fantastic, don't get me wrong. The stuff was processed and shipped the same day, and you can't get much better than that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So I guess what I'm saying is USPS, Parcelforce and Customs --, AMB ++

 But I am looking forward to building it tomorrow!


----------



## francisdemarte

Coincidentally I had the same exact problem right after reading your post. I tried my optical connection and found it was not working. 

 Problem was a cold solder join on on of the pins on U2D on the y1 side.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *itsborken* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I picked up a gamma1++ and am getting ready to start the gamma2. On a whim I checked optical and found it doesn't work yet the usb and coax function properly. Any recommendations on what I should be checking to get the base up to spec?_


----------



## Volkum

I spent a good portion of last night working on a full++ config. This is also my first venture into SMD soldering. SW1D is on backorder for another week or two and I somehow forgot to order R7U (doh).



 



 Also, y2 in progress (bunch of stuff on backorder):




 (The U4 soldering looks like crap in the pic, but much cleaner in person)

 Lastly, I somehow misplaced the last pin from the SIP-9 header that's supposed to be used for JP1D when mating with the y2. Is there a suitable substitute available from Mouser or Digikey (I can just add it to my existing backorders). Maybe this?


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Volkum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I spent a good portion of last night working on a full++ config. This is also my first venture into SMD soldering. SW1D is on backorder for another week or two and I somehow forgot to order R7U (doh)._

 

R7U is not necessary unless you plan to also populate LEDU.

  Quote:


 Also, y2 in progress (bunch of stuff on backorder) 
 

Just about all backordered items should have suitable substitutes... see previous posts in this thread (and the y2 thread too).

  Quote:


 Lastly, I somehow misplaced the last pin from the SIP-9 header that's supposed to be used for JP1D when mating with the y2. Is there a suitable substitute available from Mouser or Digikey (I can just add it to my existing backorders). Maybe this? 
 

Yes, that would work.


----------



## Volkum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just about all backordered items should have suitable substitutes... see previous posts in this thread (and the y2 thread too)._

 

I could substitute OPA2365AID with AD8656ARZ since it's in stock at Digikey and the OPA2365AID is the only part that won't be coming in next week.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, that would work._

 

Thanks for confirming!


----------



## MisterX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Volkum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I could substitute OPA2365AID with AD8656ARZ since it's in stock at Digikey and the OPA2365AID is the only part that won't be coming in next week.
_

 

Or... looks like they are both in stock at Newark. 
 Which could kill two birds with the same rock if you have not ordered the enclosure yet.


----------



## Volkum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MisterX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Or... looks like they are both in stock at Newark. 
 Which could kill two birds with the same rock if you have not ordered the enclosure yet._

 

Already did, unfortunately. SW1D is on backorder with Digikey til next week and I have an open order at Mouser (U5 will be in next week), so I figure I can just add AD8656ARZ onto the my Digikey order and C20/C26 replacement caps onto the Mouser order to save on shipping from a 3rd source.


----------



## mooseguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_R7U is not necessary unless you plan to also populate LEDU._

 

I thought I was missing that while building mine too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Worked it out though.

 I've just finished building my y1. Ran all the checks, plugged it in and it's working fine. This my first bit of audio equipment other than my headphones, but it sounds pretty darn good.

 Thanks for such an awesome project!


----------



## dumbears

My y1 once worked. All of a sudden, it stopped working. Even the Foobar2000 refuses to work properly - it is not playing any song and the progress bar keeps at the starting point.

 Would you pls advise what happened? Thanks in advance.

 ---------

 the cause is the USB socket broken; the leftmost pin of it is pushed out from its normal position.


----------



## ShinyFalcon

Did you try with optical, coaxial?


----------



## DeadBoys

Hey everyone, finished putting together a Y1 and a Y2 over the weekend only to discover that there is no sound from either. 

 Unfortunatly, due to a wrong part order I only have a regular (ie non illuminated) switch on the Y1 so checking for a lock is hard. But, when plugged into the computer the device is recognised as a DAC and hence my supspicion is that I have cooked the CS8416. 

 Is this train of thought logical? Should I be looking for anything in particular to help before dropping another £20~ on an order from Farnell? Also, I wont be able to get hold of a meter / scope until earliest tomorrow and so can't do anything now. Will report back when I have had a chance!

 Cheers


----------



## francisdemarte

Are you getting the proper voltages from the "initial check" portion of AMB's site?

 Narrow down which of the boards is not working, try to see if the Y1 works first. Also try going over all the solder joints on all IC's and regulators. Most of the time just cleaning up the joints got it working for me.


----------



## MisterX

Quote:


 Unfortunatly, due to a wrong part order I only have a regular (ie non illuminated) switch on the Y1 so checking for a lock is hard. 
 


 Do you know which switch you ended up with? 
 (if you don't know the # is it a SPDT or a DPDT? )


----------



## DeadBoys

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MisterX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you know which switch you ended up with? 
 (if you don't know the # is it a SPDT or a DPDT? )_

 

Sure do its a (Mouser) 633-G13AV-RO, ON-OFF-ON SPDT. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *francisdemarte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you getting the proper voltages from the "initial check" portion of AMB's site?_

 

I'll check this fisrt thing in the lab tomorrow.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *francisdemarte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Narrow down which of the boards is not working, try to see if the Y1 works first. Also try going over all the solder joints on all IC's and regulators. Most of the time just cleaning up the joints got it working for me._

 

Sorry, should have said this earlier, neither the Y1 boards mated together nor the Y1 boards mated to the Y2 produce any sound, merely static (with headphones) and nothing (plugged into M3 / amp). However they are bother recognised when plugged in over USB. This was the reasoning behind suspecting the CS8416 since I believe that the PCM2707 deals with the USB and the WM8501 is bypassed when using the Y2. Is this correct?

 And thanks all for the help so far!


----------



## MisterX

Quote:


 Sure do its a (Mouser) 633-G13AV-RO, ON-OFF-ON SPDT. 

 

Did you actually install that switch in the Gamma 1 board? 
 If you did all it did was short circuit the LED circuit and should be removed ASAP.


----------



## DeadBoys

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MisterX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you actually install that switch in the Gamma 1 board? 
 If you did all it did was short circuit the LED circuit and should be removed ASAP._

 

Dammit, I'm such a fool 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Does that mean Q1D, Q2D are gonna be destroyed?


----------



## MisterX

Maybe give the USB input a try without the switch in there and see what you got before going down that road?


----------



## DeadBoys

Still getting nothing over USB 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MisterX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe give the USB input a try without the switch in there and see what you got before going down that road?_

 

Also, the lock LED does not appear to swap when there is music going to the DAC. Does that mean no lock?

 Edit: on the plus side, the LED lights which means at least one of the transistors is ok.


----------



## bartvb

I built the gamma 1 lite. It works but using my Senheiser HD 280 Pro I get very loud volume. It can only put my headphone on my head when a put the volume slider on a music player to 3% to 5%. Less than 3% is mute and more than 5% hurts my ears.

 Anyone an idea what can be wrong or how to fix it? The headphone has an impedance of 64 Ohm.


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bartvb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone an idea what can be wrong or how to fix it?_

 

While the Gamma1 _can_ be used to drive headphones directly, but it is FAR from an ideal solution. It is a DAC that is designed to drive line-level signals, meaning it works best when feeding an amplifier.


----------



## amb

It is not surprising that the volume might be very loud with sensitive, low impedance 'phones due to the strong output. If the software volume control doesn't give you enough control range, then you should either use an impedance adapter for your headphones, or better yet, a low-gain headphone amp with a proper analog volume control.

 Btw, those of you who want to use a y1 to drive low impedance headphones directly should use the WM8759 DAC chip rather than WM8501. The two are identical except the former has lower output voltage.


----------



## chahahc

Hello, super newbie here. I want to build a y1 with only the mini usb input and the dc wall-wart input to mate with a y2 board. After trying to figure out the schematics, I have come to the conclusion that I would only need to solder on the components circled in these 2 diagrams linked below. Am I correct?...or is there something blatant that I'm missing? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Thanks in advance.

y1 usb interface board schematic

y1 dac board schematic


----------



## MisterX

Quote:


 or is there something blatant that I'm missing? 
 

Like say.... this same thing was covered in the gamma 2 thread a couple of months ago? 

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...v100_sch-1.png


----------



## landau

Hello, I'm preparing to build gamma1&gamma2 and during the process I came across an interesting point in the CS8416 documentation, which I would like to ask a question about here.

 According to this document from Cirrus Logic, one can significantly improve recovered clock jitter by setting an internal register PDUR, which is 0 by default, to 1. According to CS8416 datasheet this gets set by TX pin pulled up/down after reset.

 Now, (I am a layman, please, forgive me this stupid question), does the current setup on the gamma1 board set PDUR=1?


----------



## amb

landau, no, the current revision of γ1 does not set PDUR to 1. If you want to experiment with this, it should be a simple mod. Just tack-solder a thin jumper wire from U9D pin 1 (HIPERF) to the CS8416's TX pin (you can use R6D pin 5 instead -- easier to work with). See γ1 schematic for clarification.

 Since you're building this to be a γ2, and assuming you will be populating the ASRC chip, this mod would be largely superfluous because the ASRC should eliminate much of the jitter anyway.

 EDIT: I should also mention that with this mod, the maximum sampling rate supported through the S/PDIF inputs are reduced from 192KHz down to 108KHz.


----------



## leopoldiy

Hi, I m french, sorry for my poor english.
 Last week i have built and Gamma 1 and gamma 2 Dac and
 I have some trouble with it.

 In USB mode the DAC work fine, led is green and i can connect my headphone to output 1 of gamma 1 or output 2 of gamma 2.
 But if i switch to optical input, it do'nt work.
 if i switch to optical input and if not optical cable is plugged, led is red and no sound was avaible----> its OK 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
 But if i plugg an optical cable , led still red and i can hear with high level an "FLAP FLAP FLAP" in the headphone.
 I stop it for not destroy the headphone.

 I have not tested the RCA spdif Input.
 it'is possible that the cs8416 was out service ?
 thank for your help.


----------



## amb

leopoldiy, try reflowing the solder joints on L1D, C12D, U7D, C14D and U2D pin2.
 You should also test your source's coax output with another DAC to make sure it's working.


----------



## leopoldiy

ok, I'll still test it all.

 but why cs8416 make sound if the the signal spdif on this input is not in the good format ?

 thanks


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leopoldiy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_but why cs8416 make sound if the the signal spdif on this input is not in the good format ?_

 

It has nothing to do with format.

 If USB works, then chances are U2D (CS8416) is good. But the USB, coax and optical inputs go to different input ports on the CS8416. If there is a bad solder joint somewhere in the path of one of these, then that input won't work. Look at the schematic and try to understand it.


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leopoldiy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But if i plugg an optical cable , led still red and i can hear with high level an "FLAP FLAP FLAP" in the headphone.
 I stop it for not destroy the headphone._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It has nothing to do with format._

 

I've never tried it with the CS8416...... but if you accidentally feed my Buffalo multichannel audio it makes a constant loud 'ticking' sound.

 Just check that your device with optical output is only outputting a stereo mix.


----------



## leopoldiy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've never tried it with the CS8416...... but if you accidentally feed my Buffalo multichannel audio it makes a constant loud 'ticking' sound.

 Just check that your device with optical output is only outputting a stereo mix._

 

It's OK it work.

 First i try to switch RCA input and optical input, and it's the same.

 secondly i check source setup, and my HTPC was configure in multichanel output. i configure it to stereo, and now my Gamma2 Work Fine.

 Thank you very much.

 see you soon AMB for a M3 Amp and S11 psu.


----------



## transient orca

I have some questions about Gamma-1. 

 It's not exactly DIY related. My friend is trying to sell me a gamma-1 lite for $75. As you can see, I am new to head-fi. I have no frame of reference. I could not find any reviews or impressions either (yes, I have searched this thread and the entire forum). I hope you guys can give me some feedback. How good is the USB dac?

 I am intrigued by the idea of upgrading the Gamma-1 lite to full spec.Of course I have zero experience with electronic DIYing. I don't think I can do it without the help of a mentor. How much benefit can I get out of the upgrade in terms of the sound quality using the s/pdif dac compareing to the USB?

 Thanks in advance for all the help.


----------



## Beefy

'Lite' only refers to the input options - USB only - not the audio performance. I doubt you will find anything better for $75.


----------



## DeadBoys

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *francisdemarte* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you getting the proper voltages from the "initial check" portion of AMB's site?

 Narrow down which of the boards is not working, try to see if the Y1 works first. Also try going over all the solder joints on all IC's and regulators. Most of the time just cleaning up the joints got it working for me._

 

Hello again, sorry about the huge delay but uni has been really busy recently!

 All the voltages seem to be within reasonable bounds (about +- a few milivolts) but still nothing over USB 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Anyone have any other ideas?


----------



## MisterX

Quote:


 How good is the USB dac? 
 

 Quote:


 How much benefit can I get out of the upgrade in terms of the sound quality using the s/pdif dac compareing to the USB?

 

RMAA "benchmarks" are provided in the Y1 specifications page: 

The &gamma;1 Modular Miniature DAC

 and the Headwize forum thread: 

HeadWize: View Post [DIY Workshop » γ1: Full-featured modular miniature DAC]

 The problem is... even with a $75 purchase price I dunno if it is cost effective to transform a finished Gamma 1 lite version into a Gamma 1 full version because you will have to either modify or replace the end panels.


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *transient orca* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have some questions about Gamma-1. 

 It's not exactly DIY related. My friend is trying to sell me a gamma-1 lite for $75. As you can see, I am new to head-fi. I have no frame of reference. I could not find any reviews or impressions either (yes, I have searched this thread and the entire forum). I hope you guys can give me some feedback. How good is the USB dac?

 I am intrigued by the idea of upgrading the Gamma-1 lite to full spec.Of course I have zero experience with electronic DIYing. I don't think I can do it without the help of a mentor. How much benefit can I get out of the upgrade in terms of the sound quality using the s/pdif dac compareing to the USB?

 Thanks in advance for all the help._

 

I found the γ1 to be better than iBasso D10, comparison was done via USB of course. 

 I initially wanted to convert my γ1 Lite to a F++ version but decided to start over from scratch since the casework is incompatible.


----------



## transient orca

Thanks MisterX. It 'd be also nice to have some subjective listening impressions.


----------



## transient orca

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I found the γ1 to be better than iBasso D10, comparison was done via USB of course. 

 I initially wanted to convert my γ1 Lite to a F++ version but decided to start over from scratch since the casework is incompatible._

 

Thanks. That's good to know. Would you describe the dac as warm, neutral, or something else? I know this is very vague, but I don't know any other ways to ask. 

 If I decide to upgrade, I would only go as far as version A.


----------



## K3cT

It's very neutral which how a DAC should sound in my opinion. The D10 in comparison had a roughness in its treble presentation. I think for the price the γ1 fetches, you can't go wrong.


----------



## transient orca

Does the y1 insulate well from RF interference like cell phones?


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *transient orca* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does the y1 insulate well from RF interference like cell phones?_

 

I didn't test that specifically but I never had any problems with RF interference with the γ1.


----------



## transient orca

How detailed is the y1?


----------



## Beefy

Eleventyfive details.

 Honestly, questions like that have absolutely no sensible answer.


----------



## m1abrams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Eleventyfive details.

 Honestly, questions like that have absolutely no sensible answer._

 







 I was going to say 42 details, but maybe my ears are not as good as yours.

 Seriously what does "detail" mean? AMB I think has extremely DETAILED description and directions for the gamma1.


----------



## amb

Deadboys, did you try reflowing the solder joints as francisdemarte suggested?


----------



## transient orca

What I mean by detail is how sonically revealing is the dac?


----------



## m1abrams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *transient orca* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What I mean by detail is how sonically revealing is the dac?_

 

Well then my answer still stands 42.


----------



## MisterX

On a scale of 1 to 10?


----------



## m1abrams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MisterX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On a scale of 1 to 10?_

 

How do you scale and arbitrary and randomly chosen number (course all the geeks know damn well I did not randomly choose that number).


----------



## MisterX

Exactly. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Without a reference point it's all subjective interpretation of a meaningless scale. 
 Like for instance: 

 Not detailed, detailed, or very detailed. 

 If on the other hand the point of reference is a Sound Blaster X-Fi Extreme Failting Edition Plus 2 then Beefys' Eleventyfive assessment is pretty close.


----------



## transient orca

It's most helpful if you can compare y1 to another dac you are familiar with.

 I understand that these kind of questions are seldom asked in DIY forum. I just couldn't fine much discussion about y1 in the rest of the forum.

 Forgive me if I am not meeting the linguistic standard of the grand masters. I am still new here.


----------



## m1abrams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *transient orca* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's most helpful if you can compare y1 to another dac you are familiar with.

 I understand that these kind of questions are seldom asked in DIY forum. I just couldn't fine much discussion about y1 in the rest of the forum.

 Forgive me if I am not meeting the linguistic standard of the grand masters. I am still new here._

 

Sorry we are probably being a little harsh. The reason why you will not see much in respect to your question is for the following:
 1. DIYers are not really full of waxing poetics
 2. Tend to be technically oriented so find waxing poetics of technical items silly when measurements and designs will tell you all you need to know
 3. Not many people have multiple of the same "price level" of DAC to do the comparison.
 4. The type of comparison you are looking for is extremely subjective and unless you know my taste in sound is completely meaningless to you.

 Now if you want I can tell you I prefer the sound of my Gamma2 over my Gamma1, but that is probably not much help.


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *transient orca* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's most helpful if you can compare y1 to another dac you are familiar with._

 

The problem is, are you familiar with anything we will compare it to?

  Quote:


 Forgive me if I am not meeting the linguistic standard of the grand masters. I am still new here. 
 

It isn't that at all. The question just simply can't be answered well. You might find answers if you search/ask in the other forums, but chances are those answers will be meaningless.

 If you ask the question: Is the y1 Lite a good DAC for $75? Hell yes. Asked and answered.

 If you ask the question: Is it detailed? There is simply no good answer.


----------



## transient orca

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *m1abrams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry we are probably being a little harsh. The reason why you will not see much in respect to your question is for the following:
 1. DIYers are not really full of waxing poetics
 2. Tend to be technically oriented so find waxing poetics of technical items silly when measurements and designs will tell you all you need to know
 3. Not many people have multiple of the same "price level" of DAC to do the comparison.
 4. The type of comparison you are looking for is extremely subjective and unless you know my taste in sound is completely meaningless to you.

 Now if you want I can tell you I prefer the sound of my Gamma2 over my Gamma1, but that is probably not much help._

 

Fair enough.

 My friend has agreed to lend me the unit for a few days first. Perhaps I will be able to ask better questions after getting it tomorrow. 

 I trust that the y1 lite is a reasonably good USB dac, but the real value is in possibility of upgrading it. Unfortunately that option appears to be rather daunting due to the limitations of the unit itself and and my own total lack of experience. I am just not sure whether this is the best way to spend my money.


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *transient orca* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I trust that the y1 lite is a reasonably good USB dac, but the real value is in possibility of upgrading it._

 

As I said, the Lite version should give you the exact same sound as the Full++. The only difference is connectivity. Unless you specifically need optical and coax input, then there is no need to upgrade anything.

 And if you do specifically need optical and coax input, then just buy a Full++ anyway.


----------



## m1abrams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *transient orca* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Fair enough.

 My friend has agreed to lend me the unit for a few days first. Perhaps I will be able to ask better questions after getting it tomorrow. 

 I trust that the y1 lite is a reasonably good USB dac, but the real value is in possibility of upgrading it. Unfortunately that option appears to be rather daunting due to the limitations of the unit itself and and my own total lack of experience. I am just not sure whether this is the best way to spend my money._

 

FYI - The only upgrade you will be able to do to the y1 that will be worth your time would be to turn it into a Gamma2. You might see minimal changes to the sound by tweaking the output caps but really not going to see much for your dollar (and very well could sound worse). The y1 is a well thought out design and for the price is excellent.

 A y1 can be upgraded to y2 but you do need to not be afraid of smd soldering.


----------



## DeadBoys

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Deadboys, did you try reflowing the solder joints as francisdemarte suggested?_

 

Amb, right after my first post I reflowed U1D, U2D and U3D. I left the power chips alone because they appear to work fine. Should I redo all joints?

 On a side note, and to further increase my suspicion of the CS chip's death, could I jumper JP1 on my Y2 to see if I get anything? My understanding is that it just steals the 2707s SPDIF datastream away from the CS's multiplexer.

 Cheers


----------



## transient orca

I do have a s/pdif out from my computer. It 'd nice to be able to play 96kHz/24bits stuff, but I guess at $75, that is an very unlikely feature to get.


----------



## transient orca

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As I said, the Lite version should give you the exact same sound as the Full++. The only difference is connectivity. Unless you specifically need optical and coax input, then there is no need to upgrade anything.

 And if you do specifically need optical and coax input, then just buy a Full++ anyway._

 

That is if I can find a used Full++ for sale.


----------



## m1abrams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *transient orca* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I do have a s/pdif out from my computer. It 'd nice to be able to play 96kHz/24bits stuff, but I guess at $75, that is an very unlikely feature to get._

 

Look for someone selling a full y1 in the forsale forum, it does not add all that much to get the spdif inputs. However having to redo a y1 to add them and the casework might not be worth it.

 You can even post a WTB in the forsale for one, or contact one of the builders from AMB site. I am sure they would gladly give you a quote.


----------



## transient orca

Just searched for sale forum. y1 lite's were for sale quite frequently. Full y1's were much rarer. I found two old threads frrom September and October that didn't explicitly say sold (probably just un-updated). One sells for $150. The other is for $200. I am pretty sure that I would need to pay extra for shipping to Canada. I may be able to take $150, but $200 is out of reach. I can try WTB. It would be a matter of luck. I will take a look at my friend's unit before deciding how to proceed.


----------



## m1abrams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *transient orca* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just searched for sale forum. y1 lite's were for sale quite frequently. Full y1's were much rarer. I found two old threads frrom September and October that didn't explicitly say sold (probably just un-updated). One sells for $150. The other is for $200. I am pretty sure that I would need to pay extra for shipping to Canada. I may be able to take $150, but $200 is out of reach. I can try WTB. It would be a matter of luck. I will take a look at my friend's unit before deciding how to proceed._

 

Well $75 for a built y1 lite is a good deal. ? if the only reason you want SPDIF is for the added ability of 24/96, do you currently have source material in 24/96?


----------



## transient orca

I don't have much right now, but I just discovered places like Linn Records and Magnatune. I may be building up a collection in time.


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DeadBoys* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Amb, right after my first post I reflowed U1D, U2D and U3D. I left the power chips alone because they appear to work fine. Should I redo all joints?_

 

At least re-do the joints on the USB board SMD parts, since all you're testing at the moment is USB.

  Quote:


 On a side note, and to further increase my suspicion of the CS chip's death, could I jumper JP1 on my Y2 to see if I get anything? My understanding is that it just steals the 2707s SPDIF datastream away from the CS's multiplexer. 
 

No. γ2 does not take S/PDIF from the γ1. It takes I2S, which requires the CS8416 to work (and the PCM2707 if you're using USB).

 Don't mix the γ2 into the equation until you've completely debugged the γ1 first.


----------



## DeadBoys

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_At least re-do the joints on the USB board SMD parts, since all you're testing at the moment is USB.


 No. γ2 does not take S/PDIF from the γ1. It takes I2S, which requires the CS8416 to work (and the PCM2707 if you're using USB).

 Don't mix the γ2 into the equation until you've completely debugged the γ1 first._

 

Thanks amb. I reflowed every joint on the USB board today. Unfortunately still nothing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. 

 I don't know if this was inferred from my other posts but I currently have nothing in SW1D on the Gamma 1, I assume that the pull down the resistors connected to the CS chip are selecting RX0 or have my assumptions shot me in the foot again?

 Thanks, as always for any help!


----------



## jarpatus

Yay it's like christmas but better, mailman brought me letter from US and package from local Farnell stock 8) Read: Parts for gamma1 full++. I think amb requested that shipment must be carried by F-22, because how else could it be possible that parts I ordered from amb to Finland arrived the same day than parts from local stock? 

 I have always hated to do SMD soldering, always seemed like chips had tried their best to reject solder. But hey, this time I made my homework and got some flux. Hey, presto, those chips seemed to be praying for solder 8) It was amazing how easy and fast it was to solder SMD chips with proper tools. 

 Have to continue tomorrow since I am out of isopropyl alcohol. But I had question also, does it really matter if U9D is MCP101-300D or MCP101-315D? I failed to notice that amb recommended one with higher treshold voltage and ordered MCP101-300D. I will order parts for gamma2 soon so I could order -315D, but if it really does not matter, no point desoldering -300D...


----------



## amb

Deadboys, having no switch installed at SW1D is the equivalent of selecting USB as input.

 jarpatus, it doesn't matter whether you use the -300D 0r -315D.


----------



## jarpatus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_jarpatus, it doesn't matter whether you use the -300D 0r -315D._

 

Thanks amb! I soldered gamma-1 together today but as expected, I had forgot something from my order so I need to order few caps and resistors, bugger.

 Hoever, that spawned another question. I forgot to order C6D, C10D and C8 which are: "Conductive polymer electrolytic low-ESR capacitor 47µF 10V". In parts list description United Chemi-Con PSA, Sanyo SA or SH (OS-CON) or other similiar is reommended. However Farnell part number (9189505) is for Sanyo SC series having much higher ESR than SA series or United Chemi-Con PSA.

 It this ok, or should I order Sanyo SA or SH series, they are also available from Farnell (part numbers 9188673 and 9189335)? Ok, only as 16V versions, but size seems to be the same.

 Thanks again!

 Best regards,
 Jari


----------



## MisterX

Where are you getting the ESR information from? 
 Check each of the datasheets... 
 10SC47M = 60
 16SA47M = 60
 16SH47M = 180


----------



## jarpatus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MisterX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where are you getting the ESR information from? 
 Check each of the datasheets... 
 10SC47M = 60
 16SA47M = 60
 16SH4R7M = 180_

 

Interesting, I am looking Farnell's web site and it lists these values:

 10SC47M = 125 mohm
 16SA47M = 60 mohm
 (they dont stock 16SH4R7M)

 Then I checked Sanyos datasheet and it lists the same values than you. So probably Farnell does have wrong specifications listed, surely they cannot sell caps with the same model but different specs?


----------



## MisterX

Quote:


 (they dont stock 16SH4R7M) 
 

Sorry, Remove the erroneous "R". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




SANYO|16SH47M|CAPACITOR, 47UF, 16V | Farnell United Kingdom

  Quote:


 So probably Farnell does have wrong specifications listed 
 

Looks that way.


----------



## marozie

Hey guys, I've been reading the forums for a while by this is my first post. I just put together a y1 full configuration, and am getting the proper voltages on the USB board when connected to my computer but I'm getting an error message that says something like "USB device has malfunctioned." Any idea?

_Edit: Sorry, I meant to delete this after I posted in a new thread_


----------



## amb

For future reference, I answered marozie in this thread because he asked in both places.


----------



## simwells

On my component for U4U there is no corner dot to designate which way it should be, there is however a line on one edge should I assume this is the same side as the dot? Or is there another way to test?


----------



## amb

Yes, pin 1 is usually marked either by a dot or on an edge that's beveled, or a line. When you are reading the markings on the chip's top side, if its oriented properly then pin is is usually on the bottom left corner.


----------



## MisterX

Quote:


 Or is there another way to test? 
 

Check the datasheet. 
 there should be a mechanical drawing something like the one below that will point you to pin one.


----------



## DeadBoys

Hello again everyone,

 I recently received a proper switch to fit at SW1D and, after installing it, it lights green when audio is played from the computer. However I still get absolutely nothing through the mini jack.

 I now have a meter of my own so if there is anything particular I should be checking please let me know.

 Thanks all, cant wait to get this bad boy up and running!


----------



## amb

The switch lighting green tells you that all is well up to the CS8416, so you should look at what's between that and the WM8501 and to the output jack. Try reflowing the WM8501 solder joints?


----------



## DeadBoys

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The switch lighting green tells you that all is well up to the CS8416, so you should look at what's between that and the WM8501 and to the output jack. Try reflowing the WM8501 solder joints?_

 

Just finished, still no sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Is the next step to put it under the scope and see whats going on at:
 1) Input to 8501
 2) Output of 8501
 ?

 That would seem the next logical step.

 Also, assuming it is my 8501 that has blown, is there anywhere in the UK that I can find another. Them seem to be few and far between over here.

 Thanks

 (Just checked the 4.5V test point again and I'm getting 4.458v, is this within acceptable limits? Datasheet specs the AVDD pin as min 4.5v)


----------



## jarpatus

Hi again,

 Any words of advice? I finished my gamma1 full++ build but I am having strange problem - playback volume goes up and down by itself (not OS or amp volume, but perceived volume). Also when I don't play anything, I hear small pops, perhaps more when I tap the PCB.

 Of course this must be cold joint somewhere, right? Only problem is, I cannot locate it. I have reflown every single joint of through hole components, actually three times. I have spent hours trying to gently tap components and locate culprit, but no luck. I have inspected every joint thorugh 10x loupe and as far as I can tell, they are fine.

 So, what components on PCB could cause this kind of behaviour? For long time, volume can be quiet and suddenly it goes up. Some times it will change constantly up and down. Some times it does mute for few seconds and switch led goes from green to red (so perhaps its somewhere between inputs and dac?).

 No matter if I use USB or SPDIF (coax, don't have optical output anywhere), it's the same. No matter if I use external power or USB, it's the same.

 Help? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks!

 Best regards,
 Jari


----------



## jarpatus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jarpatus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Of course this must be cold joint somewhere, right? Only problem is, I cannot locate it. I have reflown every single joint of through hole components, actually three times. I have spent hours trying to gently tap components and locate culprit, but no luck. I have inspected every joint thorugh 10x loupe and as far as I can tell, they are fine._

 

I did hope that I had answer my own question but no. I did reflow every SMD chip also, no change. I'm starting to suspect that this is power some kind of power failure since volume changes so smoothly that it sound like a) analog b) the same when PSU is disconnected manually.

 - Jari

 Edit: Definetly power problem. When I probe +4.5V and gently blow against PCB, voltage does ditch down to 3V and below. Other voltages do ditch also. Something funny is going on...

 Edit2: Don't understand anything anymore. It got worse. First very very gentle breeze towards component before DAC (like caps) and led turned instantly from green to red. Then it started to buzz&hiss&etc. like off-tuned radio. And then nothing more than red led. Little wait and it works again. What the ...?


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DeadBoys* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_(Just checked the 4.5V test point again and I'm getting 4.458v, is this within acceptable limits? Datasheet specs the AVDD pin as min 4.5v)_

 

USB power? If so is your USB voltage at VBUS within spec?


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jarpatus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Edit: Definetly power problem. When I probe +4.5V and gently blow against PCB, voltage does ditch down to 3V and below. Other voltages do ditch also. Something funny is going on...

 Edit2: Don't understand anything anymore. It got worse. First very very gentle breeze towards component before DAC (like caps) and led turned instantly from green to red. Then it started to buzz&hiss&etc. like off-tuned radio. And then nothing more than red led. Little wait and it works again. What the ...?_

 

Strange indeed -- and you are absolutely sure that all solder joints are good? Bad USB cable? Does this problem occur with wallwart power?


----------



## DeadBoys

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_USB power? If so is your USB voltage at VBUS within spec?_

 

I believe so, although I don't know the exactly voltages they all seem pretty close except that one.

 VBUS on J2U shows 5.011. 

 5v test points on USB board show 5.011v and 4.998v

 3.3v test point on DAC board shows 3.296v

 Edit: Was looking over the test procedure for the y1 and noticed that you should get hiss if you select an input that is not connected, and I do, which I guess means that the 8501 might not be completely fried!


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DeadBoys* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_VBUS on J2U shows 5.011. 

 5v test points on USB board show 5.011v and 4.998v

 3.3v test point on DAC board shows 3.296v_

 

Those are good numbers. So if you're using a LP2985A-4.5 for the "4.5V" regulator and you're getting only 4.45V, it's a little on the low side, but still within spec. However, if you're using a TPS793475, then it's definitely not right.


----------



## DeadBoys

Using a 4.5v reg there, LP2985AIM5-4.5. The more I look into the problem the weirder it seems to get! Oh well, we all love a bit of trobule shooting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was wondering, would the fact that I have Essense STX drivers installed make any difference. 

 And just to make sure I'm not being doubly stupid, I just go to foobar and set the outupt as USB DAC, hit stop, then play and music should be coming out right?

 Edit: I'm guessing there is no reason why it shouldn't work on Windows 7 64 bit?


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DeadBoys* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And just to make sure I'm not being doubly stupid, I just go to foobar and set the outupt as USB DAC, hit stop, then play and music should be coming out right?_

 

Correct... If you use ASIO4all then it's a little different, but to use the standard drivers that's how it should work.

  Quote:


 Edit: I'm guessing there is no reason why it shouldn't work on Windows 7 64 bit? 
 

Works fine on Win 7 x64.


----------



## DeadBoys

Hmm, at least I'm not doing something really stupid!

 I think I'll get it under the scope as soon as I get a chance and report back. 

 Thanks for every one has a thrown some ideas out there. Still hoping that it is something tivial


----------



## amphead

Good luck, hope the scope comes up with something. It's an awesome design.


----------



## jarpatus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Strange indeed -- and you are absolutely sure that all solder joints are good? Bad USB cable? Does this problem occur with wallwart power?_

 

Well, I have reflown every solder joint at least three times including SMD chips and no cheange. Besided, when soldering it together first time, I used 10x loupe to check every joint including and especially SMD parts.

 I have tried with requlated 5.0V 2.0A wallwart PSU which voltages are good with and without load but it actually does got worse. When powered from wallward, I actually can make ALL voltages to ditch below 1V just with gentle breeze towards components near DAC and of course whole thing does shut down for a while. 

 I do not understand how this is possible, sounds so bizarre, if somebody would tell me problem I am having, I almost could not belive him. I have tried to locate broken component by blowing towards one component but no luck, I'll buy some cold spray today and continue my expreiements.

 Could it be flux? I mean, perhaps I failed to clean all flux between DAC pins and flux is conductive enough to make DAC chip go mad after some moisture from my breath (can't believe gentle breath would be enough to warm/chill components enough to make them fail)?

 I'll try to clean everything very carafully with isopropyl alcohol. Are every component sealed well enough so I could flush whole PCB with this stuff?

 Edit: Checked, voltage from PSU does not ditch at all, but voltage after U1D does. Perhaps U1D is dead? Does it burn anything if use JP2D to hardwire power source while U1D is in place?


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jarpatus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll try to clean everything very carafully with isopropyl alcohol. Are every component sealed well enough so I could flush whole PCB with this stuff?_

 

Try not to get the alcohol into the jacks, switch, and fiber optic receiver/transmitter modules. Other than that it should be ok.

  Quote:


 Edit: Checked, voltage from PSU does not ditch at all, but voltage after U1D does. Perhaps U1D is dead? Does it burn anything if use JP2D to hardwire power source while U1D is in place? 
 

I wouldn't advice installing jumpers on JP2D when U1D is already installed. It short U1D's internal circuitry. While some seems to come through undamaged, I wouldn't bet on it.


----------



## jarpatus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Try not to get the alcohol into the jacks, switch, and fiber optic receiver/transmitter modules. Other than that it should be ok._

 

Thanks, I think that was it! After spending a while reflowing and measuring bizarre voltages, I decided to give it a good bath. Used isopropyl alcohol and brushed all remaining visible flux off and then submerged whole thing into ethanol. Soaked, shaked and flushed it for a while and then dried with pressurized air and hair dryer.

 You know what? It works without flaw 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for your support, time to open packages containing gamma2 parts!

 Ps. Used ethanol because isopropyl alcohol is astronomically expensive since found it only from pharmacy, but (denaturated) ethanol costs next to nothing in every market. Isopropyl alcohol is also sold as anti-icing additive for gasoline, but they seem to contain ~1% of something nasty, tried it but it did leavy greasy surface. 

 Of course denaturated ethanol (stupid alcohol laws, honest DIY'er cannot source pure dissolvents because them) contains something unwanted too and probably I reduced life expectancy of switches and fiber optics modules great ammount by soaking them, but better shorter life than no life!


----------



## jerry_c

I'm going to build this kind of configuration: 
  Code:


```
[left]gamma-1 --- PGA2310 --- [url=http://www.41hz.com/shop/item.asp?catid=14&itemid=38]AMP3[/url][/left]
```

AMP3 being based on a Tripath chip needs decoupling capacitors, as does gamma-1. With default configuration, I would have two pairs of decoupling caps, in gamma-1 as in AMP3. So, can I use just one pair of decoupling caps, let's say after PGA2310?

 And another question, because Farnell's cheapest through-hole "multilayer ceramic capacitor X7R 1µF 25V" are so expensive, can I use SMD version instead? I should be able to mount 1206-sized component on the pads around the holes.


----------



## amb

jerry_c, I would recommend keeping γ1's output coupling caps, because without them, there will be a large DC offset (around 2.3V). I'm not sure the PGA2310 circuit would like to "see" so much DC at its input. At any rate it's best to block DC at its source rather than somewhere downstream.

 As for the SMD caps, if you could fit them on the through-hole pads and do a reasonable job of soldering them down (without touching/shorting to other parts), then sure. Why not.


----------



## jerry_c

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As for the SMD caps, if you could fit them on the through-hole pads and do a reasonable job of soldering them down (without touching/shorting to other parts), then sure. Why not._

 

Thanks for the answer. I noticed that those SMD caps are only 16V, is that ok?


----------



## amb

Yes, it's ok. Since the supply voltage is 5V and there are no step-up devices anywhere in the circuit, the cap will never "see" more than 5V.


----------



## DeadBoys

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jarpatus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks, I think that was it!_

 

Glad its working mate, I think I'll give mine the once over now and see if it does anything!


----------



## jarpatus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DeadBoys* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Glad its working mate, I think I'll give mine the once over now and see if it does anything!_

 

Ultrasonic cleaner like this would be great: YouTube - PCB - ultrasonic cleaning . Would probably save lots of pain and still do better job than manually brushing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Could just solder switches and connectors after cleaning to make sure they won't take harm from solvent.


----------



## MisterX

Would you care to venture a guess as to why I have one of those (ultrasonic cleaners) in the shed that has only been used a couple of times?


----------



## wushuliu

I've just completed the gamma1 and gave it a test run. It is SPDIF input only. I hear music but it's crackly (especially the louder, bassier the music the worse it sounds). I also noticed the led switch does not light up although it seems to work.

 Any ideas?

 thanks, very eager. I'm so close to


----------



## amb

wushuliu, the two things are most likely separate problems. The LED not lighting up is probably due to a solder joint problem at U2D, U8D, Q1D, Q2D, R11D, R12D or R13D. For the crackly noise problem, try reflowing the solder joints at U3D. If that doesn't fix it, make sure your S/PDIF source is putting out a clean signal (i.e., no clipping) to begin with. Maybe it's a software configuration problem or simply a bad recording. Lastly, what are you using as your source and what is the rest of the audio chain downstream of the γ1?


----------



## wushuliu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_wushuliu, the two things are most likely separate problems. The LED not lighting up is probably due to a solder joint problem at U2D, U8D, Q1D, Q2D, R11D, R12D or R13D. For the crackly noise problem, try reflowing the solder joints at U3D. If that doesn't fix it, make sure your S/PDIF source is putting out a clean signal (i.e., no clipping) to begin with. Maybe it's a software configuration problem or simply a bad recording. Lastly, what are you using as your source and what is the rest of the audio chain downstream of the γ1?_

 

Ok, I'll give a shot at reflowing solder joints. My source is direct from a WDTV optical out and downstream is a B1 buffer to Class D amp... I have other inputs going through the B1 and they work fine, so it's probably solder joints as youve said...


----------



## wushuliu

Out of curiosity, how would the Y1 compare against one of these?

 Does the Y1 have the better design since it avoids opamps?


----------



## wushuliu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_jerry_c, I would recommend keeping γ1's output coupling caps, because without them, there will be a large DC offset (around 2.3V). I'm not sure the PGA2310 circuit would like to "see" so much DC at its input. At any rate it's best to block DC at its source rather than somewhere downstream.

 As for the SMD caps, if you could fit them on the through-hole pads and do a reasonable job of soldering them down (without touching/shorting to other parts), then sure. Why not._

 

Hi amb, I'm going to connect the y1 straight into a Pass B1 Buffer/preamp. The Pass presents a 1M load at input so presumably I can use much lower value output caps for the y1, correct?


----------



## amb

The Pass circuit might have a high input impedance, but does it not have a volume pot in front of it? That volume pot will essentially determine the real input impedance as seen by the source.

 But anyway, yes, if you plan to drive highish-Z line loads, then you could use smaller coupling caps. You can work the math of how that affects the high-pass corner frequency.


----------



## wushuliu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Pass circuit might have a high input impedance, but does it not have a volume pot in front of it? That volume pot will essentially determine the real input impedance as seen by the source.

 But anyway, yes, if you plan to drive highish-Z line loads, then you could use smaller coupling caps. You can work the math of how that affects the high-pass corner frequency._

 

I believe the 25k pot comes after the 1M (at least on the schematic it does). thanks...

 edit: never mind, yep, you're right.


----------



## wushuliu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_wushuliu, the two things are most likely separate problems. The LED not lighting up is probably due to a solder joint problem at U2D, U8D, Q1D, Q2D, R11D, R12D or R13D. For the crackly noise problem, try reflowing the solder joints at U3D. If that doesn't fix it, make sure your S/PDIF source is putting out a clean signal (i.e., no clipping) to begin with. Maybe it's a software configuration problem or simply a bad recording. Lastly, what are you using as your source and what is the rest of the audio chain downstream of the γ1?_

 

Hi amb, I resolved the led issue. However, the crackle is still present. Actually it isn't so much a crackle as very rapid drop-outs in sound. Also, the LED actually flickers between red and green rapidly along w/ the dropouts as well. Is it possible the toslink receiver is damaged? I reflowed joints and did continuity tests across most of the board and all was ok. I tested the cable elsewheres and it was fine as well...


----------



## amb

Maybe it's a problem with the source (what are you using as you source anyway)? Try a different source and use the other inputs too, to see if you could find any pattern to this. That should help isolate the problem. Also try different cables.


----------



## ZeNmAc

Hey guys, I've been meaning to build one of these soon, but I'm not really sure which parts to order. The website has good instructions, but I'm wondering if there is any difference between the caps or other components I use. Is there a difference, or should I just get the cheapest ones? (I'd appreciate recommendations too)


----------



## amb

ZeNmAc, your question is too generic. Some parts should not be substituted (or at least, be substituted only with something of very similar specs), while others are "your choice" given the size/fitment constraints. The parts list shows all the recommended parts and their alternatives, and provide some details about them.

 "Getting the cheapest ones" is not always a good plan when you're talking about a total difference of a few dollars or less.


----------



## FunkyGibbon

Hi,

 It was previously mentioned that the 1uF multilayer capacitor (Farnell 1200404) is quite expensive at Farnell AUS. The SMD version was raised as a possible substitute.

 I have found these other 1uF multilayer ceramic capacitors at Farnell. All are X7R-type, all have physical dimensions equal to or smaller than the specified one, all have capacitance tolerance of 10%, and all have lead spacing of 5mm, as per the specified one. All cost at least three-times less than the specified one at Farnell.

 Farnell:
 1650921
 1650918
 1604727
 287064

 Are there any factors I've overlooked here, or are these all suitable substitutes? (Yes, I know they're all a lot less pretty than the EPCOS one!!).

 Thanks for your help,

 Christopher


----------



## MisterX

From the image it looks # 1600878 could be a nice option but it's out of stock in Australia. 
 # 1600879 is similar but it has a "Y5V" dialectic. 
 But....No datasheet? 

 I would either go with # 1186182 and bend the leads to fit or make use of the "special order service" that is offered on the top of the AMB audio shop order page.


----------



## jarpatus

Hi,

 Just quick stupid question, did not find answer using search... If I choose to drive headphones directly, should I change C22D also to 470uF? Can't decide from description in parts list... Looking at shcematics, I would say that I do not need to change it, only C24D and C25D, but then again, while I can read schematics easily, it is much harder to understand them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks!

 - J


----------



## MisterX

Quote:


 should I change C22D also to 470uF? 
 

No.


----------



## FunkyGibbon

Hi MisterX,

 Thanks for your reply.

 Regarding the capacitor Farnell # 1186182, it is 3.8mm wide, while the specified cap is 2.5mm wide. While this will not be a problem for C1D, C21D, and C2U, as they appear to have plenty of room, C10U looks a little tight. Do you think 3.8mm wide will be okay?

 Thanks again,

 Christopher


----------



## wz2000

I just completed my build of the y1. But I'm having some weird grounding issues I think. 
 Sometimes the y1 sounds very clean. But if I move the case I sometimes start hearing a slight hiss in the signal. This also happens if I move the selector from the USB position(I mostly use the USB mode). I know this should be normal if there's nothing connected to the other inputs, but the hiss then stays if I switch back to USB. Anyone know how to fix this? It passes the checks listed on Ambs site. 

 It sounds great when it works, but the hiss keeps coming back too often.

 Thanks in advance.


----------



## fierce_freak

How much current would just a fully populated y1 usb board draw? I want to use an o25 + o24 combo and need to see if I can get a big enough transformer.


----------



## ShinyFalcon

amb explains the transformer options in post 996 of the y2 thread. You can use 030-7151-0, a 1.5VA 166mA transformer.


----------



## fierce_freak

Thanks!


----------



## particleman14

hey all, so I'm just finishing populating my Y-1 board but have a few questions regarding the checks and setup.. 
 using my multimeter I am testing all the check points and setting the ohms to the lowest reading I am getting infinite resistance on all my points. when I use the auto range mode they seem to work on most points. I am just having trouble reading my multimeter..should i use the auto range? or set to lowest? everyway i measure i seem to get a dif reading..

 also, i plugged in the usb just to check the voltages and my 5v input is good. but my 3.3 test point sees no response. is this the pcm2707? I have checked all the joints but perhaps i missed something..?


----------



## ShinyFalcon

Are the halves connected? You'll need to plug them into each other to make the USB board see the 5V. If they are already connected check your soldering on the 3.3V regulator.

 Alternatively, temporary connect J2U pins 1 and 2 to test the USB board separately.


----------



## particleman14

yea so i shorted the jumper pins and voltages seem to be ok now and my led lights up when pluging in the usb.. However, the usb device says it is not recognized by windows. I tried to let windows install the drivers on its own but i keep getting an error saying itthe y1 is an unknown device. should I reflow the 2707? or perhaps my drivers are not installing properly., (odd because w7 is pretty automated for drivers)


----------



## amb

Yes, reflow U1U and U2U solder joints and retest.


----------



## particleman14

no dice I reflowed both parts twice and am still getting no recognition from windows. could my u2u have gone bad? I doubt its the 2707, but here are some pics of my smd.. 
Image upload, up to 2 Mb - Free image upload and image hosting - image upload @ filetac.com
Image upload, up to 2 Mb - Free image upload and image hosting - image upload @ filetac.com


----------



## ujamerstand

Well, I was able to get audio output from the gamma-2. It was beautiful. But now I'm getting trouble on gamma-1 dac section! the voltage at 3.3V point starts off at a weird 4.85V for the first few seconds, then drops off, until there is not enough voltage for the chips to function. 4.5V point is stable at 4.74. 3.3V point on the usb part is also stable at 3.27V. Is this the case of a burnt chip? Strange thing is, the lights don't work on the source selector either; so there must something wrong with that section too. But I've reflowed the solder along the related joints, checked to see if I populated the correct part, yet I cannot find a problem. Man, and I was so happy to see it working too...


----------



## amb

particleman14, those pics are too blurry to see much detail, but try probing the each pin with your DMM in ohms mode (at where it comes out of the chip) to make sure they are connected to the solder pad, or better yet, to another component on the same circuit trace. Use the schematic diagram to help you. Also, check between adjacent pins for solder bridges. Some pins are supposed to be connected to the same point (i.e., ground or 3.3V), so again, use the schematic to help you.

 ujamerstand, incorrect voltage measurements are usually due to bad soldering of the voltage regulator, or a failed regulator. Did you reflow the solder joints on the 3.3V regulator?


----------



## ujamerstand

I reflowed the joints on the 3.3V regulator U5D. It turns out, that there is only around 480 ohm across pin1 & 2. the same occurs with U6D. This is different from the reading at U3U, where the resistance is much MUCH higher. I could not see a bridge anywhere in the path. Perhaps these chips are the culprits?

 Edit: A picture of my poor soldering:


----------



## particleman14

ok so having dmmed each pin I am getting like .6 ohms for each pin.. which im guessing means they are ok? i'm still confused on my dmm because when i set to ohms mode I often get no reading between a lot of points but in auto mode i get a spike on kohms then it gradually goes down.. is this because of power being sent through on auto mode is more?
 I tested continuity between a couple points I am getting good 3.3 and 5v voltage. so that eliminates the usb, u2u and u3u right? 
 I am getting continuity between the usb pin 1 and 2707 pin 3... it still powers up but windows just doesn't recognize.. i'll try to get better pics of my smd stuff up. still trying to eliminate all the factors.. i guess this is my ee101 going through all the circuits..


----------



## MisterX

dmmed, ohms modes and continuity what?

  Quote:


 still trying to eliminate all the factors 
 

Let's actually try that instead of jumping around all over the place and then guessing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What are the numbers on U2U?


----------



## particleman14

from what i see. pins 1 and 2 (a+b) are giving 3.3v and 5v. what other figures should i measure?


----------



## MisterX

Err, please allow me to be more specific. 
 What are the numbers that are printed on the component you have soldered into the U2U position?


----------



## particleman14

A08


----------



## MisterX

That is what it should be. 
 Since it's an "AND" gate U2U pin 4 should be "high" (3.3 volts) when the USB cable is connected and a jumper is installed across J2U pins 1 and 2.


----------



## particleman14

hmm i seem to be getting 3.2 volts on pin 4. is that within tolerance or bad U2U?


----------



## MisterX

That is fine. 
 The voltage should "pull down" a little bit on that pin. 
 What are the chances of having a solder bridge between two of the pins on U1U that is being difficult to spot? 
 (continuity checks between adjacent pins using the schematic as a reference is the acid test but that is a pain with those little pins)


----------



## particleman14

indeed. i have been checking those U1 pins all night. from what i and friend can tell there are no bridges. I'm going to get better pics uploaded as my amateur eyes are bound to miss something. will post tmrw.. er later today


----------



## amb

ujamerstand, the voltage regulator's pin 1 and pin 2 are the input and ground pins, respectively. 480 ohms does seem implausibly low But since you have the same measurement on both regulators, it might be something common to both regulators rather than the regulators themselves. When you made these measurements, did the reading stay stable at 480 ohm or did it vary over time? Also, you said that you have the correct voltage at the DAC board's 4.5V test point. Is this still true?


----------



## steven2992

I have just completed a gamma1 and I will be building the gamma 2 tonight but I have a problem with the usb input. When I connect it it's recognized as a usb dac. If I then play music the switch becomes green but after a few seconds the music stops playing and the switch becomes red. I have tried a different computer but it has the same problem. s/pdif works fine with usb power so I think that it might be something with the usb chip. Can anyone help/has anyone experienced this?


----------



## m1abrams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *steven2992* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have just completed a gamma1 and I will be building the gamma 2 tonight but I have a problem with the usb input. When I connect it it's recognized as a usb dac. If I then play music the switch becomes green but after a few seconds the music stops playing and the switch becomes red. I have tried a different computer but it has the same problem. s/pdif works fine with usb power so I think that it might be something with the usb chip. Can anyone help/has anyone experienced this?_

 

When you test it with spdif how is it powered? via usb or via a wallwart

 If you use a wallwart with spdif have you tried testing the usb with the wallwart plugged in?

 I am wondering if you just have flakey power on the usb from the computer.

 Also do you get the same issues if you test it on another computer.


----------



## steven2992

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *m1abrams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When you test it with spdif how is it powered? via usb or via a wallwart_

 

usb powered

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *m1abrams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you use a wallwart with spdif have you tried testing the usb with the wallwart plugged in?_

 

I don't have a wallwart here right now but i could try to find one.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *m1abrams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am wondering if you just have flakey power on the usb from the computer.

 Also do you get the same issues if you test it on another computer._

 

I've tried it with two computers, a laptop and a desktop, and both read 5.0xxV on the usb.


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *steven2992* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have just completed a gamma1 and I will be building the gamma 2 tonight but I have a problem with the usb input. When I connect it it's recognized as a usb dac. If I then play music the switch becomes green but after a few seconds the music stops playing and the switch becomes red. I have tried a different computer but it has the same problem. s/pdif works fine with usb power so I think that it might be something with the usb chip. Can anyone help/has anyone experienced this?_

 

I had that issue but it happened quite rarely in my case and only when I used USB power and when the Gamma2 board was connected. I solved it by cleaning the boards thoroughly with isopropyl alcohol.


----------



## ujamerstand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ujamerstand, the voltage regulator's pin 1 and pin 2 are the input and ground pins, respectively. 480 ohms does seem implausibly low But since you have the same measurement on both regulators, it might be something common to both regulators rather than the regulators themselves. When you made these measurements, did the reading stay stable at 480 ohm or did it vary over time? Also, you said that you have the correct voltage at the DAC board's 4.5V test point. Is this still true?_

 

The low resistance reading disappeared overnight. It is now over 1M ohm at both U1D and U6D. It was probably because of a short created after I cleaned the board with some alcohol. Thank god I did not plug it in for testing after that. The voltage readings at 4.75V point is a constant 4.74V as of now. The voltage drop on the 3.3V point stabilizes at around 2.93V. Neither chips gets hot during operation.


----------



## steven2992

Mine now works and it's great. Turns out it just needed some cleaning. thanks for your help.


----------



## particleman14

well this is about the best pic i could get w/ my crappy camera.
Image upload, up to 2 Mb - Free image upload and image hosting - image upload @ filetac.com

 i'm going to borrow another camera to try and get some better pics..


----------



## jarpatus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *particleman14* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i'm going to borrow another camera to try and get some better pics.._

 

Dude, what camera do you have? By improving photographing conditions many c****y camera can take decent photos. Can you manually set values like ISO, aperture and exposure? 

 It seems your environment is dark and you need to use external light/flash - try to use sunlight which is superior or helluvalots of external powerful lights. If you can manually set values, set ISO to minimum and exposure time something like 1/30. No flash. Set aperture size to maximum. Use tripod if you have one if not, grab camera with good tight grip and try to support your arms somehow (1/30 exposure time is too long for steady pictures if you cannot hold camera still somehow). Do not zoom, take distance where your camera still can focus and take many pictures and see if any is good.

 Ok ok, I am no photographer but after I learned few basics, my pictures improved A LOT. Real photographers please correct me if I am wrong. Of course this assumes you have at least decent camera, if camera is total c**p nothing can help.


----------



## MisterX

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/1332/81835390.jpg

 Apply flux then resolder the U1U joints that are facing the bottom side of the board (they don't even look like they are soldered), wouldn't hurt to reflow the other pins while you are at it. 
 Give it a good cleaning and then see what you get.....


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is not surprising that the volume might be very loud with sensitive, low impedance 'phones due to the strong output. If the software volume control doesn't give you enough control range, then you should either use an impedance adapter for your headphones, or better yet, a low-gain headphone amp with a proper analog volume control.

 Btw, those of you who want to use a y1 to drive low impedance headphones directly should use the WM8759 DAC chip rather than WM8501. The two are identical except the former has lower output voltage._

 

Sorry for bringing up a rather old post but I'm just curious, is there any problem driving headphones straight with the WM8501 and its higher output voltage?


----------



## MisterX

No.


----------



## particleman14

ok, so after having remounted and reflown u1u like 3 times i have now managed to break 2 pins on the sucker.. soo i guess for sure its U1 lol... however 2707s are out of stock for a while... so am I s.o.l? i tried to order 2 u1 from amb in case this exact thing happened, but he only allows 1 per y1 board.. do i have to buy another y1 board to get another 2707? because ill do it if i have to, i just wanna finish this thing. starting to get frustrating cuz i thought i was getting good at smd lol


----------



## ShinyFalcon

Which pins did you break? (with respect to the dot)

 Good thing is, you probably won't have to worry about desoldering U1U if you buy another y1 board. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 You only need to populate a new USB board.

 ------

 Edit: I populated a left over y1 DAC board, and have set it up for DC input only. I omitted the 4.5V regulator and hard wired pin 2 of J4D to the 4.5V test point. I also omitted C10D, but should I populate it?

 Is there a reason a resistor network is chosen besides convenience? I used individual 75 ohm resistors since Mouser did not have the 68 ohm Bourns resistor network in stock, and tried my best to keep the leads the same length. Should have gone SMD here...


----------



## particleman14

they would be pins 28-29.. looks like my y1 project is on hold as 2707 and 2706s seem very scarce at the moment..


----------



## ShinyFalcon

Those pins are not used in the y1.


----------



## particleman14

I know, and it still doesnt work.. here are some pics with a better camera.. but not better cameraman..Image upload, up to 2 Mb - Free image upload and image hosting - image upload @ filetac.com


----------



## ujamerstand

I've got a pcm2707 lying around for a grubDAC that probably won't be built in a while. My problem with y1 doesn't seem to be related to pcm2707 either. So if you don't mind international shipping, I can get it in the mail for you. PM me.


----------



## particleman14

so im checking all of the circuits and I may have narrowed it down a bit.. I am getting good voltage (3.3) on pins 24,21,15,10. good voltage on all the other u1 pins (3.3v pin2) (5v pin 3) (1.45v pin 12 1.575v pin13) However on pins 22,23 what measurements should i be getting there? 
 so if those readings are correct on my U1 so far then would it be something connected to the J1U circuit that is being funky?


----------



## ujamerstand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ujamerstand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The low resistance reading disappeared overnight. It is now over 1M ohm at both U1D and U6D. It was probably because of a short created after I cleaned the board with some alcohol. Thank god I did not plug it in for testing after that. The voltage readings at 4.75V point is a constant 4.74V as of now. The voltage drop on the 3.3V point stabilizes at around 2.93V. Neither chips gets hot during operation._

 

Well, I've decided to replace the 3.3V regulator and see what happens. Does anyone know what might cause this type of weird behaviour? A short somewhere? The strange thing is, the voltage "spikes up" to 4V sometimes at 3.3V position, then returns to 2.92V; which suggests a cold joint. But I've already reflowed all the joints on the same path as the 3.3V regulator; and it does not explain the initial 4.85V reading at the 3.3V test point when I plug y1 in. Which is why it's so strange...


----------



## particleman14

quick update: after reflowing many parts, my pins 22, 23 d+ d- pins on u1 are reading 3.11V and like 11mv. I know d+ has to be brought up to to 3.3v so is 3.11v within tolerance? also when measuring again i am getting 3.0v on pin 12 which is in the crystal circuit but on the other pin 13 i get 3.3v perfect.. are my voltages in the ballpark?


----------



## ujamerstand

My y1 stops singing at around 3.02V. That's on the DAC side. After you ohmed out everything and made sure there's no shorts, why not give it a try?


----------



## particleman14

ive tried but i still keep getting the usb not recognized.. i am suspecting the crystal circuit as pin 12 gets 3.3v and pin 13 3.0v. perhaps this 3v pin13 is the problem? still unsure but i feel im close..


----------



## amb

particleman14, measuring DC voltage with a DMM on "signal" pins is not very useful. To see whether the crystal is working you'd need an oscilloscope.


----------



## ujamerstand

I have determined that the u5d is not the device at fault. After replacing the chip with a new one, the voltage readings is still elevated at 4V. It then slowly decreases just as the original chip behaved. I must add that this did not happen when gamma-2 module is non-functional. I will proceed to test by bypassing the gamma-2 module with wires.

 Edit: Well, gamma-2 is not at fault here either. (Why would it, anyways? Oh well.) So something must've happened when I was reflowing the solder at the DAC section. Arg. Now I have no idea what to do. Help?


----------



## particleman14

ok, good to know. usb still not recognized. what other measurements can I take to get an indication of the integrity of the circuits? pretty much stuck here, may have to start from scratch, but still hopeful..


----------



## amb

The only advice I have is to test each and every SMD solder joint with your DMM in ohms mode. Between where the pin comes out of the IC and another point in the circuit that is in the same "node" (i.e., where it's supposed to be connected to). Also check for solder bridges by measuring between adjacent pins. You'll need use the schematic diagram and the PCB layout picture (both found at the official website) to use as reference.

 As has been shown all along, most build problems with the gamma DACs have something to do with solder joints. If you could prove to yourself that there are is no problem with all the joints, then there is probably a blown chip. I hope it's not the PCM2707 as they are unobtanium at the moment.


----------



## ujamerstand

I am now systematically checking each solder joint for issues... amb: what might cause a 3.3V regulator to output a higher voltage at startup, and slowly drop its voltage down below 3.3V? A short from 5V to 3.3V? It doesn't appear like it...


----------



## ShinyFalcon

Have you isolated the problem to the y1 or the y2? USB board and/or DAC board? Check U4D and U9D (of y1) and their orientation.

 Check the 5-pin IC's and see that you didn't put a voltage regulator in the wrong spot by reading the number on top of these chips. There's a chart under Instructions in the y1 page.

 What are the part numbers for Q1D and Q2D that you ordered?


----------



## ujamerstand

The problem has been isolated to y1 board. It works, but the voltage is not at regulated at the right voltage. The chips are all in the correct orientation. 3.3V regulated by u5d is the only chip that has this problem. It is the correct chip. Q1D is 2n3904-k35 and so is Q2D.

 Edit: Currently the voltage as output from u5d is stable at 3.42V. Thus, the DAC works. But I'm really worried that it might drop out of regulation again. Another strange thing is that I cannot make accurate resistance readings across some of the resistors. There are several resistors that shows an infinite resistance. Could I have burnt them out? I thought these things are the most resilient components in this build. If I did burnt these things out, might that explain the strange voltage readings?


----------



## amb

ujamerstand, your described symtoms still sounds like marginal soldering on the regulator.


----------



## ujamerstand

I'll go back and resolder the pins of the regulator. It is in a hard to reach place after all... But I'm happy to say that overnight testing has shown that the voltage stabilizes at 3.32V ~ 3.33V. Best of all, there are no drop outs. (the voltage never drops below 3V anyways) This might be the last thing I have to worry about for now. Thanks amb!

 particleman: the dac is on its way.


----------



## particleman14

haha thanks ujamerstand, looks like i'll be repopulating the usb side of another gamma1. second times the charm?


----------



## tucsonmike

So i just put together my y1, full version.

 the switch lights up red(stays that way), and a hiss comes out of the earphones(shure-se110s)
 im using usb, i havent bought a toslink yet.
 windows vista recognizes it and calls it a usb dac.

 i play music and the hiss gets loader.

 any ideas?
 thanks

 edit: no shorts according to testing procedure, and all voltages check out.


----------



## amb

tucsonmike, did you verify your SMD solder joints with your DMM? This has come up numerous times...


----------



## tucsonmike

yeah i did.

 initially i found a cold joint on u1u and i thought that would bring it to life, but no cigar.

 any ideas on which smd i should be focusing on?

 red light always on
 hiss on usb channel
 no music output
 windows reads it perfectly


----------



## tucsonmike

So i didnt put in the header pins into jp1u and i didn't jump 1-2.

 dont know what i was thinkin

 so, on to the y2!


----------



## MisterX

It would help narrow things down if you could try the DAC section with another source and see if you have the same problem. 

 Other then to check that JP1U is configured correctly there is not much.....


----------



## MisterX

See what I get for not using the preview feature?


----------



## zxc

Just done with the Gamma-1. It's alive! Hopefully it will graduate to be a Gamma-2 soon.

 Hated soldering the little 5-pin IC's. At first, the DAC did not work. After reading a few posts here, I reflowed the U1 and the regulators according to suggestions, and all was fine.

 How does it sound? Probably better than the Zero. I use the HD600 through a Pimeta; and the Gamma-1 seems to have enough juice even without the Pimeta. Actually, I wouldn't bother with an amp if I were to use it as a portable DAC with a laptop. Thanks to all who has anything to do with this development.

 I have a question: 

 My other source is a Sony 200 CD changer, nothing special. And I think that the CD player (through Pimeta and HD600) seems to have better detail and impact than the Gamma-1 (through Pimeta and HD600). Does this even make sense? (I use lossless format and a Linux box) I mean, how can a $250 mainstream CD changer beat this DAC? Did you experience anything similar?

 I hope that an upgrade to Gamma-2 will get me a superior sound over the CD changer. Is this a fair assumption?


----------



## m1abrams

Maybe the CD players output voltage is higher and so makes it louder. Most people perceive minor volume changes as sounding better. When comparing equipment it important to make sure you match the volume.

 That said the CD player might have a decent DAC in it.


----------



## amb

zxc, if you're going to plug a γ2 onto that board, I suggest replacing the header pins and receptacles. You've soldered on the the pins which makes them rough, and may damage the receptacle on the γ2 side. Similarly, by shoving wires into the receptacles the contacts inside may have also deformed, and could cause poor contacts too.


----------



## zxc

Yes, the CD player volume is significantly higher. That might be the reason. 

 Thanks AMB, maybe I should order a second set of receptacles along with the Gamma-2 board. But I am really not sure how I could "unsolder" the current set. The holes on the board are tinned inside as well right?


----------



## amb

Yes, the holes are plated through.

 If you have a good desoldering pump (such as Hakko 808) then it's really easy to do this.

 Lacking that, it won't be hard if you're not saving the headers and receptacles for re-use. For the headers, just heat each pin and pull it out, one at a time (be careful not to overheat the pad and cause it to lift off the board). For the receptacle, you could break the plastic body first and then desolder each contact separately. You'll then need to clear the holes of solder. A stainless steel dental pick is good for this purpose, just heat the pad and insert the pick into the hole. Solder won't stick to stainless steel.


----------



## MisterX

That is one of those applications that Chip Quik works very well for. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Digi-Key - SMD1-ND (Manufacturer - SMD1)

 The price makes it a hard pill to swallow until you try it.... but once you do, it becomes one of those essential kind of tools. 
 Or at least for me it did. 

  Quote:


 A stainless steel dental pick is good for this purpose 
 

Digi-key has a handy little "kit" for that as well. 

Digi-Key - 243-1101-ND (Manufacturer - 20214)


----------



## bburl

Does anyone have a source for the TI/Burr-Brown PCM2707PJT USB DAC that will ship to Canada?


----------



## ShinyFalcon

Seems to be very difficult to find at the moment. You can try eBay, there is one for $22 shipped.


----------



## bburl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ShinyFalcon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Seems to be very difficult to find at the moment. You can try eBay, there is one for $22 shipped._

 

Thanks.


----------



## cobaltmute

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bburl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone have a source for the TI/Burr-Brown PCM2707PJT USB DAC that will ship to Canada?_

 

Patience may be the best answer. Mouser has a significant quantity scheduled inbound of both the PCM2706 and PCM2707 (which are interchangeable).


----------



## tucsonmike

So, i picked up a motorola phone charger with 5v 300ma output.

 Is this ok to run my y1/y2?

 also, the jack isn't the correct one, could i just solder the wires to the pcb?

 Cant find a jack (male) online, know of any good sources?

 There a four pins on the jack(female), are they two hots, two grounds?

 thanks for the help


----------



## ujamerstand

um, you're talking about the plug right? Rather then soldering the wires to the PCB, you can buy the correct plug at your local electronics shop. Digikey has them too. number CP3-1003-ND.


----------



## BlizzofOZ

It was suggested from a question I posted in the main DIY area, that the y1 would fit my needs. 

 Here is my original post:
 With summer coming, I bought myself a pair of Polk Atrium 60 outdoor speakers.
 The plan was to hook them up to my Onkyo SR-606 stereo, via it's Zone 2 area. I also have my HTPC hooked up to that stereo... and wanted to play music off the server to the stereo, thru Zone 2 outside. Audio wise, the HTPC is hooked optical/digital (I have the option of coaxial too). Unfortunatly, I found out that the stereo doesn't output the digital input.

 Started reviewing my options and thought of a DAC.
 Can anyone point me in the direction of DAC that would fit my needs? Again, these speakers will be outside, so I'm not looking for high quality music.



 So, I'm not sure if the y1 would work... I'm not driving speakers directly with the y1, but with the stereo/reciever which the y1 will be outputting to.

 Would the y1 work?


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BlizzofOZ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...
 Would the y1 work?_

 

I don't see any reason why it wouldn't.


----------



## BlizzofOZ

Thanks AMB! I guess I'll be placing another order to you soon then...

 I was thinking that option E of u2 is all that I needed?


----------



## amb

If you mean config E (S/PDIF only), yes.


----------



## BlizzofOZ

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you mean config E (S/PDIF only), yes._

 

Exactly what I meant...

 The analog output is a 3.5mm stereo phone jack, correct?
 Do they sell a male 3.5mm stereo phone jack to 2 wire (White/Red) RCA jack wire?


----------



## MisterX

Quote:


 Do they sell a male 3.5mm stereo phone jack to 2 wire (White/Red) RCA jack wire? 
 

Let me google that for you


----------



## BlizzofOZ

Thanks MisterX... I know, I know... 

 Beat me to the punch, I see them on Monoprice.

 Thanks to you both for answering my questions!


----------



## netsky3

Hi to everyone,
 I'd like to build a gamma1 lite but there's a few things that i don't know.
 I've done a lot of soldering but only few times smd, how many smds are in the gamma1? Is difficult to assembly?
 If i buy the pieces on the amb store, how can do the list for the lite version if I don't know the exact bom for the lite?? I'm not interested to the case but only the fundamental pieces.
 I'm so confused 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Thanks to those who help me


----------



## amb

netsky3, all the answers to your questions are found at the γ1 website.


----------



## particleman14

ok guys so i re did my y-1, but i am still getting the same problem. 
 usb device not recognized.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i figure it is my u1 again.. to my eye and my 40X loupe, i don't seem to see any bridges or anything suspect.. but here are some pics with a better camera. http://imgur.com/NEhrM.jpg see anything bad? 
 I am getting the correct voltages at 3.3 and 5v testing points.. 
 2nd crack at the usb receiver.. hopefully I can figure it out this time


----------



## MisterX

Do you have a picture of the whole USB board?
 Preferably without the loupe messing up the focus.


----------



## particleman14

ok here are some regular pics.. macros - Imgur


----------



## MisterX

red red black red brown = 22k ohms.


----------



## MisterX

red red black gold brown = 22 ohms. 
 It looks like you have the wrong resistor values installed in the R1U and R3U positions.


----------



## particleman14

omg.. i lifted those resistors off the other gamma-1.. so maybe it wasn't my U1!! 
 all along turns out it was the 22ohm resistors! w/ colonel mustard in the kitchen w/ the revolver.. 

 looks like i've got another excuse to order more parts from mouser.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 thanks misterx.. you've been instrumental in my amb builds. i really appreciate it.
 will check in when i finally get it working...


----------



## viking87

Hey everyone!

 I've been here a little while, but this is my first post so to start I want to thank AMB and Misterx for their hard work and a great DAC! 

 So now to my problem. I've put together a y1 Full ++ to be connected to a y2. Since I dont have all of the parts for the y2 yet, I just connected the wires together like noted on the website and plugged it into the computer. everything looked okay, and the voltages all looked good, but no music played. I unplugged it and looked it over and realized i made a pretty dumb mistake in my haste and connected the data wire from the usb board to pin 4 rather than pin 5 on the J5D of the DAC board. I put it back where it should be, but stil, no music, led never goes green, and DAC doesnt work with optical either (no coax to test, no external power yet either. Did I royally mess something up? Thanks for the help!


----------



## amb

I don't think that error should have caused any damage, but that's just a guess.
 Check to make sure all your jumpers are set correctly,and check all solder joiints.
 Does the computer recognizes it as a "USB audio DAC"? Where exactly did you check the voltages and what did you read on your meter?


----------



## viking87

Quick reply! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Jumpers should be set correctly (JP1U 1-2 shorted), and from what I can see the solder joints are okay (I am a newbie at this tho, so who knows.) The PC did recognize it as a USB audio DAC. I tried switching to it and use it as default, but no dice. I am unable to check the voltages again, but from memory, the 5v was ~5.04 or 5.07, the 3.3 was very close to that, but the 4.5v was 4.73v.


----------



## amb

ok, the voltages are fine. You got 4.73V rather than 4.5V because you used a TPS793475 regulator instead of LP2985A-4.5.
 The fact that the computer recognized it as a USB audio DAC is good, that means at least the USB side of the PCM2707 chip is good. Since it also doesn't work with optical input, then chances are the problem is either with the CS8416 or WM8501 chips. Examine your solder joints carefully on these chips, using a loupe or other magnifier. With the power off, check each joint with your DMM in ohms mode, between the pin where it comes out of the chip, and the edge of the solderpad (or some other point of the circuit where it's supposed to connect to). If necessary use the schematic diagram as your guide. Reflow any joint that doesn't read near zero ohms. Also check adjacent pads for solder bridges (except where the pads should be connected, again -- see the schematic).


----------



## viking87

Just to clarify, I can check voltages again in a half hour or so, I just gotta wait till I get back


----------



## viking87

Okay, I did everything you said and to me everything looks okay. I decided to reflow everything tho on U3 and U2, but no change...


----------



## MisterX

Let's make sure U4D is working.
 Measure the voltage at pin 9 of U2D and see what you get. 
 It's pretty tight there so it may be better to probe the R8D lead that is closest to R6D instead.


----------



## viking87

I'm getting 0 volts...


----------



## MisterX

It starts at 0 volts and then changes to 3.3 volts after a half a second or starts at 0 volts and stays at 0 volts???

 Either way it might be a good idea to jump ahead and check the numbers on the component you have installed in the U4D position. 
 The first line should read "MCP100"
 Check U9D while you are it.
 The first line on that one should read "MCP101"


----------



## viking87

man, that was difficult to read! but I got it and turns out im a** backwards. huh, You guys are goood. So, are they ruined or can I pull them out and do a swictheroo?


----------



## MisterX

You should be able to swap them around.


----------



## viking87

Sweet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now I just got to wait for the chip quik stuff to get in, my attempts to desolder those things with just desoldering braid failed miserably. Anyhow, thanks a lot to both of you for your help (this late too at night!) and a great DAC!


----------



## MisterX

Just melt a blob of solder over all three of the holes and pull the part out....
 (which is the same way I would do it with chip quik, the primary difference is chip quik stays molten longer and is a little easier to clean up)


----------



## viking87

Gave the solder blob thing a try, and though it was a major pain in the butt... it works! Thanks so much! Now if only those darn back-ordered parts would show up I could get going on the y2!


----------



## particleman14

hey all, just wanted to check in.. my 22ohm resistors came in the mail anddd YESS!! finally works...everything works on my y-1.. and a little bonus; i plugged it into my y-2 and boom no problems...full functionality. thanks again for everyones help..
 i'm sure i'll be back with more questions soon enough lol..
 here are some pics.. Photo Albums - Imgur


----------



## amb

particleman14, great to hear (double entendre)!


----------



## particleman14

thanks, now it's time to order those custom faceplates..


----------



## Mullet

Im planning on doing a y1 lite build in the near future and being that I'm new to the whole DIY thing (I've made 3 CMOYs thus far) I'm nervous about making my own face plates. I know there is an area of the AMB website that describes the measurements and what not for the case design, but I don't think I have the proper tools to do the job ie the rectangular hole needed for the USB port. Is anyone willing to do the panels for me for a small price? Otherwise, does anyone know of a machine shop in the NYC area that could provide such services?

 Also, do I really need to get different screws than what come with the case? If so, what are the recommended specs that I need when showing up to my local hardware store?

 Thanks,
 Mullet


----------



## particleman14

edit dbl.


----------



## particleman14

Have you tried Front Panel Express - Custom Front Panels with free Front Panel Designer*-*Home ? seems to be quite popular on these boards. i am about to make an order from them myself.


----------



## zxc

I have been happily using my Gamma-1 at work on a Linux workstation, for about a week, plugged in 24/7. Suddenly it stopped working. Below is the kernel message (/var/log/messages) I get when I plug it in. It is not properly recognized as a DAC. Led is on.

 I read the forums here about similar problems. I reflowed all IC's. Nothing changed. I checked all IC connections according to the schematic with a multimeter. All seems properly connected. Then I cleaned the boards with alcohol. Issue remains. 

 Any help is appreciated.


----------



## MisterX

I assume you ran the USB board through the steps outlined in the initial checks page and the voltage at the 3.3 volt test point was acceptable?


----------



## zxc

Thanks for the suggestion. I just went ahead and checked the voltages at 5V, 3.3V and 4.5V points at both boards (USB & DAC). All are spot on except for the 4.5V one, which is around 4.75V. 

 Could the failure be caused by having the DAC connected to the computer all the time? 

 I am attaching the picture of the boards. They are coupled by an empty Gamma2 board (just the receptacles and pins). Any help is appreciated...













 Here is the kernel message showing the error when the DAC is connected. It used be recognized as a USB DAC by Burr Brown:

 Apr 19 00:15:04 linux-2p0p kernel: usb 6-1: new full speed USB device using uhci_hcd and address 28
 Apr 19 00:15:04 linux-2p0p kernel: usb 6-1: device descriptor read/64, error -71
 Apr 19 00:15:05 linux-2p0p kernel: usb 6-1: device descriptor read/64, error -71
 Apr 19 00:15:05 linux-2p0p kernel: usb 6-1: new full speed USB device using uhci_hcd and address 29
 Apr 19 00:15:05 linux-2p0p kernel: usb 6-1: device descriptor read/64, error -71
 Apr 19 00:15:05 linux-2p0p kernel: usb 6-1: device descriptor read/64, error -71
 Apr 19 00:15:05 linux-2p0p kernel: usb 6-1: new full speed USB device using uhci_hcd and address 30
 Apr 19 00:15:06 linux-2p0p kernel: usb 6-1: device not accepting address 30, error -71
 Apr 19 00:15:06 linux-2p0p kernel: usb 6-1: new full speed USB device using uhci_hcd and address 31
 Apr 19 00:15:06 linux-2p0p kernel: usb 6-1: device not accepting address 31, error -71
 Apr 19 00:15:06 linux-2p0p kernel: hub 6-0:1.0: unable to enumerate USB device on port 1


----------



## Mullet

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *particleman14* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you tried Front Panel Express - Custom Front Panels with free Front Panel Designer*-*Home ? seems to be quite popular on these boards. i am about to make an order from them myself._

 

I think this vendor should work. I just downloaded the free software and I'll give it a shot. It looks like you can send in your own panels to have the work done on them. Let's see how easy it is to translate the specs given on amb.org to their provided software.

 Thanks,
 Mullet


----------



## particleman14

mullet give them a call, they have pretty good customer service and can help guide you to what you want..


----------



## m1abrams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zxc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the suggestion. I just went ahead and checked the voltages at 5V, 3.3V and 4.5V points at both boards (USB & DAC). All are spot on except for the 4.5V one, which is around 4.75V. 

 Could the failure be caused by having the DAC connected to the computer all the time? 
_

 

Should not be an issue my Gamma1 and Gamma2 have been connected pretty much since the day I built them.

 The photos you posted do not show enough detail to see problem areas clearly, however your U1U chip appears to have a lot of flux residue that could cause a short. Also if you plan to make this a Gamma2 I would make your JP2U and JP1U jumpers flush to the board they may cause interference with the Gamma2 board.


----------



## amb

zxc, have you tried a different USB cable? A different USB port on your computer? Also inspect your USB connector's solder connections.


----------



## zxc

Thanks for the suggestions. 

 The soldering job on U1U is not as bad as it looks in the pictures. I thought that was the issue, so I checked every connection and cleaned it really good before posting here (washed it, cleaned with alcohol and Q-tip, and let it sit for a day to dry). 

 I just checked the USB connector with a multimeter, and it looks fine. Same issue happens on two different computers, with different USB cables, even when plugged directly to a motherboard USB port. 

 I remember I had a similar issue when I was building it. There was a solder bridge on PCM, and it got resolved when I removed it. That's why I checked every IC joint and connection with a multimeter. Any chances that the PCM is gone? What puzzles me is that it quit as I was listening to it, not while it was sitting in storage, or after I dropped it or something. Any other ideas?


----------



## amb

If you're sure it's not a problem with the soldering on U1U, then try reflowing U2U as well.
 If there is a marginal solder joint, if could "fail" at any moment.

 If that still doesn't fix it, then maybe U1U did go bad.


----------



## zxc

I did check the connections on all IC's, not just between the pins and the pads, but between the IC pins and the pins of the next part they are connected to. I did this after I re-flowed all IC solder joints and cleaned the board. So I am a little out of options. Is it probable that the PCM would go bad just like that? I'd hate to see the issue persists after changing the PCM 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Is there a quick way to check or identify a bad PCM chip?


----------



## m1abrams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zxc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did check the connections on all IC's, not just between the pins and the pads, but between the IC pins and the pins of the next part they are connected to. I did this after I re-flowed all IC solder joints and cleaned the board. So I am a little out of options. Is it probable that the PCM would go bad just like that? I'd hate to see the issue persists after changing the PCM 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Is there a quick way to check or identify a bad PCM chip?_

 

What you want to do next is check the connections from the PINS to the next connection that pins should have direct contact to. This can be done using the schematics, this will help find bad joints. However one issue is if you have a marginal connection then the act of pressing down on the pin could make the connection good.


----------



## MisterX

What did you have the DAC connected to? 
 I have seen a few of them that were killed by Mullet Starving Student amplifier's but every IC was fried in those....

  Quote:


 Is there a quick way to check or identify a bad PCM chip? 
 

Not without an oscilliscope....
 Would be a good idea to double check the voltages on U2U to ensure it is functioning as intened before replacing the PCM270X.


----------



## zxc

m1abrahams, I believe I already did what you described. You made me realize that pressing on the pins during measurement might make a bad joint look fine. I had re-flowed all IC joints, I am not sure what else I can do. 

 Mister-X, it was connected to a Pimeta v1 (bass-boost added, ~2000uF rail capacitance, coupled to 10uF Solen caps and 220nF polypropylene caps). I connect the Pimeta to either HD600's, or to a Bose 2.1 computer speaker system. When the failure occurred, it was connected to the Bose... 

 I will check the voltages on U2U once I get home. Any other ideas?


----------



## Ntropic

Hey guys. Trying to order some parts, but Mouser's missing some parts, namely the hex inverter, the pulse transformers, and the NPN transistors. The NPN transistors I've substituted according to the parts list page with 863-PN2222AG. Should be alright.

 The hex inverter won't be in stock for a long time at Mouser, so I'm going to get that from Digikey. Shame about the shipping, but there's not much I can do. Maybe I can pick up some CMF50s while I'm there. They might not have any advantage over the RN55Ds, but they're shiny and blue, right? What are the RN55s? Brown? Clearly the shiny ones win.

 I'm not quite sure on the pulse transformer though. There's none instock from Pulse, and the DA101C isn't instock either. The DA103C is, but the specs are look totally different. Is it safe to substitute? I'd rather not pay $10 each for the S22083 that Digikey stocks.

 A question about resistors: The RN55Ds come in 22.1 KOhms. Is that close enough to 22 KOhms to not make a difference?


----------



## MisterX

Are we to assume the reference to "RN55Ds" is a typo?


----------



## amb

There are plenty of hex inverters in stock at Mouser. Just search "74hcu04" and choose one in the SOIC-14 package.

 Mouser lists a restock date of 5/31 for DA101C, if you don't mind waiting a little while.

 RN55 resistors don't fit the board. RN50 does.


----------



## Ntropic

Yeah. RN55s. I just settled for the Xicons. Can't seem to get my hands on CMF50/RN50s from Mouser.
   
  If I order $200 worth of parts, would the DA101C ship as a back order item (ie. free)?
   
  I realized I was building a full++ configuration, and I couldn't figure out a reason to use digital output from the DAC. Surely the point of the DAC is to be the DAC, no? If I build a y2, and I omit the digital outputs from the y1, it'll still work fine, yes?


----------



## amb

Quote: 





ntropic said:


> Yeah. RN55s. I just settled for the Xicons. Can't seem to get my hands on CMF50/RN50s from Mouser.


 
   
  Why not?  Here is an example:
  http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Vishay-Dale/RN50C4752FB14/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtMTfExsNintZhur%252b52DQdNh%2fVMK0On4kI%3d
   
  Quote: 





> If I order $200 worth of parts, would the DA101C ship as a back order item (ie. free)?


 
   
  That's up to Mouser's discretion.  They _may_ ship backordered items for free, or pay partial shipping cost, or charge you in full.
   
  Quote: 





> I realized I was building a full++ configuration, and I couldn't figure out a reason to use digital output from the DAC. Surely the point of the DAC is to be the DAC, no? If I build a y2, and I omit the digital outputs from the y1, it'll still work fine, yes?


 
   
  If you don't need to USB-to-S/PDIF conversion feature, then you could skip the digital outputs.  That means you'd be building a full config γ1 rather than full++.  If you will be using the pre-drilled+engraved γ2 panels, then you'll have some unused holes.  The difference between full and full++ is only a few dollars worth of parts...
   
  P.S. argh, the new forum doesn't use BBcodes, what a pain to compose.


----------



## Ntropic

I realize it's only a few dollars worth of parts, but why would you end up using your Gamma1/2 solely for the purpose of USB->S/PDIF?
   
   
  As you can see, the RN50s are a full dollar each. Not really worth getting when the Xicons are 1/6th of that. I just wish the RN55s fitted.
   
  As for back order items, are you sure? The checkout page's link to the shipping info says no charge for backordered products when your order is over $200. Ships via Fedex Int'l Priority or UPS (lolups). No fine print as far as I can see. Do you think they meant "we'll hold your order until the part comes in and send it all together" or "we'll send you what we have, and send the backordered stuff later"?


----------



## MisterX

Check the current status and you will see it's a moot point.


----------



## MisterX

Err, wow that didn't take long!


----------



## MisterX

Quote: 





ntropic said:


> As you can see, the RN50s are a full dollar each. Not really worth getting when the Xicons are 1/6th of that. I just wish the RN55s fitted.
> 
> As for back order items, are you sure? The checkout page's link to the shipping info says no charge for backordered products when your order is over $200. Ships via Fedex Int'l Priority or UPS (lolups). No fine print as far as I can see. Do you think they meant "we'll hold your order until the part comes in and send it all together" or "we'll send you what we have, and send the backordered stuff later"?


 


 Either.
  Proceed to checkout and you should see something like this:


----------



## amb

Quote: 





ntropic said:


> I realize it's only a few dollars worth of parts, but why would you end up using your Gamma1/2 solely for the purpose of USB->S/PDIF?


   
  Not "solely".  You can still use the DAC as a DAC while it's doing USB-to-S/PDIF conversion, simultaneously.  I've used this capability to "daisy chain" an additional DAC (e.g., to drive multiple amps) while using only one USB port on the computer, and there is no complication of getting the OS to play multiple streams of audio over more than one audio device.  This feature came in really handy at meets/shows, the the fact that the S/PDIF outputs are galvanically isolated means no ground loop!


----------



## JamesL

Hi, is my source selector switch wired correctly?
   
  http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/reihn/IMG_1587-1.gif
  (does anybody else have trouble posting(not linking) images?)
   
  I have used it in the center (off) position for usb, but when I tried hooking it up to a optical source and flipping the switch the other day, it gave me a series of clicking noises.  I found that it does that regardless of whether I have a source connected or not.  (same goes for coaxial spdif)


----------



## MisterX

Quote: 





> Hi, is my source selector switch wired correctly?


 
   
   the wires are connected to the right spots on the circuit board but can't tell from the image if they are connected to the switch properly


----------



## amb

What switch is it?  It's hard to tell which way you've got the switch mounted.  If it's a DPDT or SPDT switch with the toggle oriented such that it moves horizontally rather than vertically, then the wiring looks correct.


----------



## Olli1324

I don't know if this is the right place to put this, but it seems a good place to me.
   
  I seem to have ordered a 33nF capacitor for C19D instead of a 22nF. Has anyone got a spare one that they can stick in an envelope and post to London? I can cover costs with PayPal.
   
  I can't believe I have done this; I spent hours staring at the BOMs!
   
  Anyway, cheers,
  Olli


----------



## amb

Olli, no need to get a 22nF cap.  Explanation here.


----------



## Olli1324

Ah, thanks


----------



## JamesL

Quote: 





misterx said:


> the wires are connected to the right spots on the circuit board but can't tell from the image if they are connected to the switch properly


 
  Quote: 





amb said:


> What switch is it?  It's hard to tell which way you've got the switch mounted.  If it's a DPDT or SPDT switch with the toggle oriented such that it moves horizontally rather than vertically, then the wiring looks correct.


 

 It is a SPDT ON-OFF-ON switch, mounted horizontally. 
  I don't have a spdif source to test it with anymore, but now with the switch selected to either coax or optical with nothing connected, I get a quiet hiss 
  instead of something that sounded like a quiet machine gun.  
   
  I found that my coax/rca socket isn't isolated from the chassis; it might have been the problem but I'm not sure if that would have caused both inputs to act as it did.


----------



## MisterX

A little bit of hiss when selecting an input that is not connected to anything is normal.
  And yeah, it would be a good idea to isolate the coax input jack from the enclosure with your grounding scheme being the way it is.


----------



## Ntropic

Ahah! Got one chip done. Took me a little bit, but I think I got the measure of both how to solder chips, and my iron.
   
  How does this look? I hope I didn't burn the chip, but I don't think <1 sec of contact time with a 15W iron would do it in. Yes, 15W.

   
  Ignore that bit of solder on R12D. I think a bit of it just flew over there or something. Should be alright though, right?  Don't know what to do about the flux; 70% IPA and some Qtips got most of it off. Should I try soaking it in IPA (HPLC grade, no less. Hohoho. Only the best, am I right?) and let it sit before rubbing it off?


----------



## amb

Ntropic, I would use less solder.  See the "SMD soldering 101" video linked from the y1 website and notice how the liquid flux helps the solder wick around the pin instead of collecting on the pin itself.
   
  As for the extra bit of solder on the resistor pad, desoldering braid will clean it up.  Wipe away from the hole so the solder doesn't end up clogging it.
   
  You can clean the flux off with IPA (the higher the % purity, the better), use a brush to help you, and you will need to do it multiple times to really clean it up.  There are special flux remover sprays that work more efficiently, but the fumes are not good to breathe.


----------



## Ntropic

Still too much? I'll work on it. I saw the video, but the scale is kind of misleading when it's magnified 10x (or so). I only have a basic lamp/lens (2x?), and still trying to find a more powerful tool. It should be ok if it isn't bridged though, right?
   
  Is methanol safe to use on the board/flux/components? I'm running out of IPA, but I have plenty of methanol left. (Yes, I read the MSDS. Yes, I have a fan. No, I am not leaving the vial open.)
   
  Here's U4U; a little better, but a bit messy. Like that tacking corner, on 14.


----------



## amb

I would still use less solder, there shouldn't be such a big blob of solder on the pad.  Rather, all you need is a little fillet to flow around to the back side of the pin.  Also, it looks like your iron might not be hot enough.  It's actually better to have a hotter iron than too cold, it makes sure that the solder melts completely and works its way  around the pin in a short time.


----------



## MisterX

Agreed, looks like your iron could use more heat.
   
  You should be able to wick some of that extra solder away by applying flux and reflowing the joints with a clean tip.


----------



## Ntropic

Wish I could even get a better iron. Nobody local has in stock or stocks Weller's WP35 or WLC100, and everything else I'm not sure I can trust. On the subject of the WLC100, is the ungrounded iron an issue with ICs in climates like Vancouver, where the humidity pretty much makes static non-existent?
   
  My iron is pretty balls. Not only is it 15W, but it also only tins on one side.
   

   
  In related news, U4U seems to have a short between pins 3 and 4. Every other pin checks out just fine according to the schematics. The resistance between the two pins ranges from KOhms to MOhms, changing every time I try to mop up whatever might be there. Do you think the solder is under the chip? I've mopped up so much solder the pins look like how they're supposed to look like, yet I'm still getting a reading between them. Should I desolder it to check? How easy would it be to burn out the chip?
   

   
  Pin 1 left, Pin 7 right.
   
  Edit: My multimeter is giving me a lot of grief. Sometimes it'll find a bridge, other times it won't. Sometimes it'll find one between pins separated by several, but not any inbetween those.


----------



## MisterX

I would buy one of those Hakko clones before I would ever buy another Weller station. 
  But that's just me...
   
  Is the tip of the iron you are using now grounded?  
   
  Try chucking the tip in your drill and polishing it with some fine sandpaper... be careful though because if you wear through the plating the exposed copper core will erode like crazy.
   
  Pins 1, 3 and 5 are connected to each other.
  Pins 2, 4 and 6 are connected to each other.
   
  The reading on your meter would be closer to 0 ohms if there was a short caused by a solder bridge....


----------



## Ntropic

You're right and I'm tired. I guess that means I have no shorts, Wasted a couple hours, but at least I learned something and my contacts look nice. That HPLC-grade IPA really does the trick (not that generic pharmacy stuff wouldn't cut it). What /does/ it mean though when you get numbers (as opposed to infinity)? You got a semi-short?
   
  My iron has a ground. Is the tip grounded? I assume so; the tip is connected to the body, which is connected to the ground wire. I wonder if the WLC100's iron can be disassembled, and a ground wire ghetto modded in.
   
  The only 936 I can find is http://cgi.ebay.ca/Soldering-Station-HAKKO-936-12-ESD-110V-free-10-tips_W0QQitemZ270581186487QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3effe53fb7 
  /////////////////////
  Looks like the Cantonmade Hakkos aren't authentic.
  http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/showthread.php?p=242063
  /////////////////////
   
  10 free tips included. My only reservation is that it comes from Hong Kong. I'm always wary about electronics from HK. I don't know of any clones. Should I continue with my 15W POS? Risk my money?
   
   
  (My flux smells like orange juice)


----------



## 4L3X

This is a chinese clone of the well known Hakko 936:
   
  The Aoyue 936
   
  For example:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/AOYUE-936-Soldering-Station_W0QQitemZ120566955596QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Electrical_Equipment_Tools?hash=item1c1259be4c


----------



## revolink24

Amazon has the Hakko 936 for $83, and it's "ESD Safe" which means the tip is indeed grounded. Also note that that aoyue is only 35W while the Hakko is 60 (adjustable, of course.)


----------



## Ntropic

The lower wattage just means it'll take longer to reheat the iron, right? 
   
  Quote:


revolink24 said:


> Amazon has the Hakko 936 for $83, and it's "ESD Safe" which means the tip is indeed grounded. Also note that that aoyue is only 35W while the Hakko is 60 (adjustable, of course.)


   
   
  Good find on that iron.
   
  Quote:


4l3x said:


> This is a chinese clone of the well known Hakko 936:
> 
> The Aoyue 936
> 
> ...


----------



## amb

Quote: 





ntropic said:


> What /does/ it mean though when you get numbers (as opposed to infinity)? You got a semi-short?


 
   
   
  When you're measuring resistance between pins of a chip you may be getting some reading from the circuitry inside, and when it's soldered to the board other parts may also influence the reading.  This is why you'll have to try to make sense of the reading.  If it's near zero then you have a short/bridge.


----------



## Ntropic

I've completed the board, minus the hookups between DAC/USB, and the transformers T1D/T1U. I tried plugging in the USB section to test it (shorting JP2U VCC and VBUS), but nothing happens. The 3.3v and 5v test points check out. The U1U and U4U look ok (doesn't seem to have any shorts, visually or by DMM). What should I check next?


----------



## 3000

I'm trying to make a complete order for an y1 and possibly an y2 at mouser by using the BOM. Well, all parts expect the ones you can order from amb.
   
Most parts are in stock, though three parts are not and I could need some help ordering replacements if possible. These are the ones not in stock:
   
R7U; 270-560-RC
R9U; 270-110-RC
U4U; 595-SN74HCU04D replaced by 863-74HCU04DR2G
   
  Regarding both resistors R7U and R9U, does the size and voltage matter regarding a possible replacement as all similar ones are and bigger and higher voltage.
   
  Regarding U4U, reading through this topic and others, the above mentioned replacement should be ok right?
   
  Thanks in advance!


----------



## MisterX

Quote: 


> R7U; 270-560-RC


 
You do not need this or the LED but if you wish to install them you can sub with # 270-562-RC 
 
 
Quote: 


> R9U; 270-110-RC


 
 
You can sub with # 270-113-RC
   
   
 
Quote: 


> Regarding U4U, reading through this topic and others, the above mentioned replacement should be ok right?


 
 
Yes.


----------



## amb

For R7U you can substitute with 270-562-RC, for R9U substitute with 71-RN50C-F-110.
  Your U4U choice is fine.
  EDIT: MisterX beat me to the punch.


----------



## 3000

@MisterX and amb, many thanks!


----------



## Ntropic

Any help with my post on the previous page?


----------



## MisterX

What are the numbers on the IC you have installed in the U2U position?
  
  Quote: 





ntropic said:


> Any help with my post on the previous page?


----------



## Ntropic

A08G, as specified.


----------



## amb

Ntropic, make sure U1U is soldered in the correct orientation (the dot on the chip should match the dot on the board).  Also check your soldering of U1U's USB input pins, and of the USB connector itself.


----------



## Ntropic

The chip is in the correct orientation. I'll reflow U1U and the USB connector to be sure though.


----------



## 3000

I got a, hopefully, simple to answer question regarding U1U.
   
  As can be seen below, somehow the copper traces of pin 7 and 8 came loose when soldering. (I take full responsibility for that!) I managed to get the trace on pin 7 to get back to it's original position, though the trace of pin 8 went missing. As the PCM2707 is used for USB interface and conversion to either S/PDIF or I²S, does it mind to keep things as they are at this moment? As according to the datasheet, pin 7 and 8 are used for volume up and down respectfully.
   
  If not, is there any way to clean this one up?


----------



## MisterX

It's OK, those pins are not used in the Y1.


----------



## 3000

Quote: 





misterx said:


> It's OK, those pins are not used in the Y1.


 
   
  Just as I thought, thanks for for clearing it up!


----------



## phishhead92

so when i plug my USB in (im almost positive that everything else is a clean solder) i get usb device not recognized, and when set to USB mode the U1U chip gets rediculously hot, what does this mean? does this mean the U1U chip is dead or is it somewhere else?
   
  i re-flowed the joints and inspected with magnifying glass and there are no bridges. also if it is any conselation both the 3.3V and 4.5V test points read 2.73, JP2D pin 3 reads 4.72, the wires underneath the board are all solder correctly and with good joints.
   
  can you help me?
   
  EDIT:just tested for 3.3 and 4.5 test points i was getting 2.95


----------



## MisterX

Are you sure you have U1U installed the right way around?


----------



## phishhead92

Quote: 





misterx said:


> Are you sure you have U1U installed the right way around?


 

 aaaaaannnnnnndddd cue feeling like a idiot
   
  ugh this is about to BE SO MUCH WORK, do you have any smd desoldering tips?
   
  also would this clear up the voltage issues or would that be on like U2U/U3U?
   
  EDIt: nvm pads came off when i tried to desolder it, i cried a little on the inside, looks like ill be getting a new board
   
  is it possible to rejoin the 2 boards? like the DAC board is in fine shape, or maybe ill just omit the USB feature, i was planning on using a toslink anyway, plus im building a sigma-25


----------



## MisterX

I would just cut the leads with a razor knife, it's a little easier to remove the left over bits then it is to remove the IC in one piece and it reduces the chance of pulling the pads off the board (although it's an expensive part to destroy it's cheaper then a new board).
  Your voltages should be OK once the PCM270X is removed but you never know until you get there.


----------



## phishhead92

oh,well, i kinda tried to cut them after i desoldered a bunch, but when i was desoldeirng the pads, a couple came off, again im not gonna worry about it cause i was just gonna use the optical input, now i just need to get a case, power cable jack (input w/e you call the plug thats in the device) and a power cable output jack, like for the DC into the device.
   
  thanks for the help


----------



## Yoga Flame

I'm pretty new to DIY, and have been thinking about building a γ1 since I am looking for a DAC. One of the first obstacles is the parts list. First there are several different configurations. Then you need to determine the quantity of each part type to order. It's certainly doable, but I found myself looking for an easier way.
   
  So I put together some javascript to simplify things (DIY even, you might say 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





). This is basically an exact copy of the one on the AMB site, but with some additional javascript and CSS. It adds these capabilities:
   - a toolbar to hide/show the parts of each configuration A - F
   - tooltips of the actual notes when mousing over the "Note" column on the parts list table
   - summaries of the parts required from Mouser / Digi-Key / Farnell for each config
   
gamma1 Parts Browser
   
  I may not end up attempting the γ1 as my first project, but hopefully this will be useful to others.
   
   
  amb & MisterX, I hope this doesn't count as infringement on your work. All the links there go back to the real AMB site. But I'll take it down if this is inappropriate. Actually, you can just use my script on the real site if you want, then there won't be any need for my duplicate page.


----------



## Ntropic

Interesting work you've done there. I'm sure it'd help simplify BOM building.
   
  I think the y1 turned out to be a fine first project for me. A good iron is definitely a good send, but you don't really need a Metcal. Unless you're a complete idiot, it's not too hard to figure out how to put what where, and after a few tries, your soldering looks better. Just watch the tutorials on Youtube. The only part that failed for me is the PCM2707. Still can't get it to work; there's continuity from the data pins, but I think the chip is dead. I get nothing from it.
   
  Pro tip: The corner holes take 6-32 screws. I didn't know that (I'm sure it's on AMB's site somewhere), and ended up getting 8-32 by accident.


----------



## phishhead92

Okay so i got my Powersupply working nicely (outputs the correct amount etc) but when i test the points on the board some are wrong, also the switch is red and kind of flickering, the DAC board test points are all fine and dandy but the USB board is kind of messed up, the 3.3 is at like 4.5ish and the 5V closest to the edge is 4.5 as well, but the 5V in the center is just fine,
   
  can you guys help me?


----------



## amb

Quote: 





phishhead92 said:


> Okay so i got my Powersupply working nicely (outputs the correct amount etc) but when i test the points on the board some are wrong, also the switch is red and kind of flickering, the DAC board test points are all fine and dandy but the USB board is kind of messed up, the 3.3 is at like 4.5ish and the 5V closest to the edge is 4.5 as well, but the 5V in the center is just fine,
> 
> can you guys help me?


 

 Try reflowing the solder joints at U3U.  If the voltage at VBUS is too low, it might be a problem with your computer's USB port not up-to-snuff.  Using a short USB cable might help because a long cable could drop the voltage significantly.


----------



## phishhead92

Quote: 





amb said:


> Try reflowing the solder joints at U3U.  If the voltage at VBUS is too low, it might be a problem with your computer's USB port not up-to-snuff.  Using a short USB cable might help because a long cable could drop the voltage significantly.


 

 im using a sigma 25 for power, and it outputs like it should, i omitted u3u


----------



## amb

Quote: 





phishhead92 said:


> im using a sigma 25 for power, and it outputs like it should, i omitted u3u


 

 U3U is still required if you use external power.  Also, the 5V testpoint labeled VBUS is from USB (if you have it plugged into your computer's USB port) regardless of your power source.
   
  EDIT: The only exception to this is if you don't plan to use USB as a digital source at all (i.e., config E).  But since you're checking voltages of the USB portion I assume you do want USB functionality.


----------



## phishhead92

Quote: 





amb said:


> U3U is still required if you use external power.  Also, the 5V testpoint labeled VBUS is from USB (if you have it plugged into your computer's USB port) regardless of your power source.
> 
> EDIT: The only exception to this is if you don't plan to use USB as a digital source at all (i.e., config E).  But since you're checking voltages of the USB portion I assume you do want USB functionality.


 

 im only checking the USB portion for the SPDIF out (if i ever need it) but mainly i just want optical in and RCA out, i know its all on the DAC board. but i just want the option, also my other problem is, i was trying to move the U3U at one point and i pulled to hard and some pads came off, now i have seen some techniques about getting past this but i would like it if i didnt have to. (one method i have seen is scrape away until its just the copper and then use a wire or something to connect)
   
  but yes you are right, i do not plan to use the USB for a source or for power


----------



## phishhead92

Quote: 





phishhead92 said:


> im only checking the USB portion for the SPDIF out (if i ever need it) but mainly i just want optical in and RCA out, i know its all on the DAC board. but i just want the option, also my other problem is, i was trying to move the U3U at one point and i pulled to hard and some pads came off, now i have seen some techniques about getting past this but i would like it if i didnt have to. (one method i have seen is scrape away until its just the copper and then use a wire or something to connect)
> 
> but yes you are right, i do not plan to use the USB for a source or for power


 
  bump for help, i still cant figure it out


----------



## K3cT

You can use the solder to build a "new" track. It should be fine.
   
  And aren't you essentially building Config E? I'm sorry, I didn't quite understand your question.


----------



## phishhead92

Quote: 





k3ct said:


> You can use the solder to build a "new" track. It should be fine.
> 
> And aren't you essentially building Config E? I'm sorry, I didn't quite understand your question.


 
  yeah basically, it started out as the full++ but i jacked up the usb chip pretty badly so i might just do the E config, but when i plug in the power supply the switch is red and the usb boards voltages are all messed up (i posted their values above) does it even matter if the usb voltages work since im not gonna be using the USB part?
   
  but other than that, i cant figure out why the switch is red and flickering, i tried to look at each and every part closely and they all look fine so im not sure whats wrong.


----------



## phishhead92

bump again for help, cause no one has really said anything to help me out


----------



## amb

phishhead92, what are you using as your S/PDIF source?  You are using optical input, right?  Did you install the correct part for the optical receiver (TORX147PL, which should have a black shutter).  Make sure there are no cold solder joint problems on the fiber optic receiver and the CS8416 digital audio receiver/mux chip.  Do you have a source with coax output to test?  That would help narrow down the problem area.
   
  Make sure you configured your source correctly -- some sources would output AC3, ADAT or other non-PCM, non-audio digital streams which are not supported by the γ1.
   
  Also, did you try more than one optical source or Toslink cable to rule out a source or cable problem?


----------



## phishhead92

I am using optical as my source. i did install the correct part, i went through the whole board to make sure nothing looked bad, if there was a suspect joint i reflowed it. the CS8416 chip was probably the best looking smd job i did on this board haha, and yes the other smd chips dont have bridges or cold joints either (im almost 100% positive).
   
  i didnt test it initially but i just tried (brand new toslink cable) i hooked it up to my portable amp via a mini-to-mini cable to no avail, all i heard was silence, my source was my comptuer, i was using foobar to play some FLAC files.
   
  but one thing i dont understand if the switch is lit up red, doesnt that mean there is something wrong?
   
   
  there is one chip that is looking kind of funky (joints wise) but its the U1D, if i were to omit this and jumper JP2D (pin 1,2) would i have to take off those other parts or could i just leave them populated?
   
  EDIT:after some fidgeting and more cleaning the optical option is green 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, i think i just dont know how to configure my computer cause i still cant hear anything, but that seems to just be a source problem. ill figure it out


----------



## pterodactilo

Hello, I am doing my part list for gamma1 and need some help.  Can I substitute Sanyo 10SC47M in C6D by other electrolytic models like Sanyo 16SH47M?  The last one is cheaper on Farnell and has lower ESR (20 vs 60) but higher voltage rating : 16V. Does it pose a problem?  I have the same doubt in the case of C1D. The default part is way too expensive, 5€, so I looked for a substitute and found:  UNITED CHEMI-CON - KCD101E105M55A0B00  (farnell  1650942). In this case appart from voltage rating, which is 100V, also tolerance differs (20% instead of 10%). Is tolerance too big to use this part as substitute? Thanks in advance.


----------



## MisterX

Quote: 





> Can I substitute Sanyo 10SC47M in C6D by other electrolytic models like Sanyo 16SH47M? The last one is cheaper on Farnell and has lower ESR (20 vs 60) but higher voltage rating : 16V. Does it pose a problem?


 
   
   
   
  The ESR and physical size is the same so..... 
   
   
   
  Quote: 





> I have the same doubt in the case of C1D. The default part is way too expensive, 5€, so I looked for a substitute and found: UNITED CHEMI-CON - KCD101E105M55A0B00 (farnell 1650942). In this case appart from voltage rating, which is 100V, also tolerance differs (20% instead of 10%). Is tolerance too big to use this part as substitute?


 
   
  No, the tolerance doesn't matter much there but you should stick with an X7R cap for those spots. 
  Try # 1216443 instead.


----------



## pterodactilo

Thanks for your answer, Mister X. You are really patient and helpful to beginners like me.


----------



## pterodactilo

I have my part list almost done. There is only the toggle switch left but on Farnell  none seems to be exactly like default 13JVCF-R0. The most similar one is # 1187754. .According to the datasheet PC terminals look like they have different orientation...


----------



## midoo1990

hi.can any one please tell me how can i install the  0.1mf 50v ceramic capacitor?how do i know +ve from _ve?
  sorry for the silly question but this is my first attempt in diy.


----------



## MisterX

Quote: 





> hi.can any one please tell me how can i install the 0.1mf 50v ceramic capacitor?how do i know +ve from _ve? sorry for the silly question but this is my first attempt in diy.


 
   
  The orientation does not matter because they are not polarized.

   
   
   
  Quote: 





> I have my part list almost done. There is only the toggle switch left but on Farnell  none seems to be exactly like default 13JVCF-R0. The most similar one is # 1187754. .According to the datasheet PC terminals look like they have different orientation...


 
   
   
  Which could be why there is no Farnell part number provided for SW1D on the Y1 parts list page.


----------



## midoo1990

ah ok Mister X,thank you.i searched the net before i asked and the answer was as yours but i was hesitant becauseon the pcb board,the opening are not similar.


----------



## pterodactilo

There are no 22K resistors available on Mouser, but a few 22.1 ones :
   
594-SFR16S0002212FR5
   


Larger Image​ 



Images are for reference only
 See Product Specifications​​   
 ​ 660-MFS1/4DCT52R2212
   
  Both have 100 ppm as temp coefficient.
   
  Can I use them as substitute parts ?


----------



## amb

Quote: 





pterodactilo said:


> There are no 22K resistors available on Mouser, but a few 22.1 ones :
> 
> 594-SFR16S0002212FR5
> 
> ...


 

 Yes, either of those are fine.


----------



## midoo1990

guys i need help desoldering chips.i tried everything and neither the wick or the pump are working.the wick removed some solder but it still stuck.


----------



## Nebby

Pick up a chipquick set, it's available at Digikey and other places.
http://www.chipquikinc.com/
  Quote: 





midoo1990 said:


> guys i need help desoldering chips.i tried everything and neither the wick or the pump are working.the wick removed some solder but it still stuck.


----------



## midoo1990

thanks for the suggestion,but any other solution with what i have in my hands
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




?i dont want to wait a couple of weeks for it to cross the world to me along with the expensive shipping for such an item.


----------



## Nebby

Have you tried the flood and suck method? flood the area with solder then wick up all of it?
   
  If you ever plan on doing any SMD soldering chipquick is highly useful, it's worth to have just in case


----------



## midoo1990

the chip was flooded with solder in the first place
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. give me a couple of minutes,i will try it.


----------



## midoo1990

no luck what so ever.its very stuck and doesnt move in the slightest.
  i will order some parts from digikey and i will get chipquick,but i just wanted to finish my gamma2s now as i have been working on them for cuple of weeks.


----------



## cobaltmute

Flood the chip on both sides, then quickly go back and forth between the two sides with your iron to make sure the solder is liquid on both sides, then move the chip away with a set of tweezers.


----------



## midoo1990

^^not working.no problem,the chip is damaged anyway because two legs came off from all the soldering and pumping.i will order one from amb as i also need some parts for my mini3 and y2.
  this hobby is so damn expensive!!


----------



## francisdemarte

I had the same problem with the square USB chip. I solved it with a creme brulee torch.
   
  Slather on a lot of flux and secure the board on it's side. Apply heat from the torch in a circular motion around the legs avoiding the center of the chip while pushing against the chip with a pair of tweezers. It will pop right off. I was even able to reuse the chip after this!


----------



## Nebby

I'd be concerned about overheating the chip when using a torch. Maybe if you're really careful....


----------



## francisdemarte

I was too, but to my surprise the chip turned out fine. I'm still using it in my gamma2 to this day.
   
  Here a video I found, they have the board flat but I find it works on it's side too, that way you have gravity assisting you. Put on a lot of flux, keep the visible flame a few inches away and keep moving the flame.
   
  If you think about it, the tip of your iron is about 500+ degrees, thats being conducted into the chip during soldering.


----------



## Nebby

When you are soldering, the actual contact should be at most a few seconds. My concern with the torch usage is that you may exceed either the temperature and/or heat duration specified.
   
  The PCM2707 has a lead temperature (soldering temp) rating of 260C for 5 seconds (this is why it's a good idea to solder quickly) and a package temperature (IR reflow, peak) rating of 260C. Those are absolute maximums past which TI states that damage may occur. A quick google shows that a typical buntane torch advertises that it reaches temps of 1400C, so I hope you understand my concern that using a torch may not be the best idea if you want to reuse the item.
   
  Since midoo has already ripped pins off the chip I would give the torch a try as long as he doesn't have items around it populated


----------



## midoo1990

^^no nothing populated around the chip.............................................just a few caps
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  i ordered already some parts from digikey and i got chipquick with it.
  thanks for the help


----------



## Kibble Fat

I was thinking about making square or rectangular tent-shaped soldering heads out of sheet steel.  This would be incredibly cheap if it could work.


----------



## Calku

Quote: 





kibble fat said:


> I was thinking about making square or rectangular tent-shaped soldering heads out of sheet steel.  This would be incredibly cheap if it could work.


 


 Something like this?
http://www.hakko.com/english/tip_selection/type_smd-quad.html
   
  Click the "see movie for further details" link for video


----------



## Kibble Fat

precisely 
   
  The post that is held by the iron could be off a dremel tool with a screw on the end for different attachments


----------



## Kibble Fat

Quick question about the initial check procedure:
   
  I've finished populating the Gamma-1 board with all full++ components.  If I want to go strait into building the Gamma2, do I need to temporarily hard-wire the DAC and USB boards together to do the initial check?  I've done steps 1 and 2 without incident.


----------



## amb

Quote: 





kibble fat said:


> I've finished populating the Gamma-1 board with all full++ components.  If I want to go strait into building the Gamma2, do I need to temporarily hard-wire the DAC and USB boards together to do the initial check?  I've done steps 1 and 2 without incident.


 

 No, just use the γ2 board as the "bridge".


----------



## Kibble Fat

I finished the gamma2 board and went through the initial checks.
   
  My voltage readings are as follows:
   
  Plug-swapped phone charger reads 5.12 V

*y1 USB board*
 +5V (#1) reads 73.9 mV
 +5V (#2) reads 2.100 V
 +3.3V reads 1.842 V

*y1 DAC board*
 +3.3V reads 1.889 V
 +4.5V reads 0.1 mV

*y2 board*
 +4.5V reads 0.418 V
 +5V (#1) reads 2.100 V
 +5V (#2) reads 2.120 V
 +3.3V reads 2.103
   





   
  Let me know if anything catches your attention.  I haven't found any solder bridges using my DMM continuity function and I checked every chip.  I'll keep looking, but all of my solder joints look fine.  The short at the 4.5V test point on the y1 DAC board is puzzling though...
   
  Any help would be greatly appreciated!
   
  - Eric


----------



## MisterX

What are the voltages without the Y2 board plugged in?
  (plug the ac adapter into the Y1 DAC section and measure the voltages, install a jumper across the VBUS and VCC pins on the usb section, plug it into the computer and measure the voltages)
   
   
   
   
  And... why is U6 installed?


----------



## Kibble Fat

With those changes, the DAC board is still misbehaving.
   
*y1 USB board*
 +5V (#1) reads 4.96 V
 +5V (#2) reads 4.96 V
 +3.3V reads 3.214 V
  Note: USB device not recognized

*y1 DAC board*
 +3.3V reads 3.054 V
 +4.5V reads 3.523 V
   
  I missed the note for U6 
  Uninstalled.


----------



## ShinyFalcon

What is the voltage reading on y1's JP2D pin 2? How about pin 3?


----------



## MisterX

Quote: 





> Note: USB device not recognized


 
   
  The soldering looks pretty good so let's assume reflowing is not going to help.
  What are the numbers on the component you have installed in the U2U position?
  What's the color code supposed to be for a 22 ohm resistor? 
  And... check that you don't have the TORX and TOTX modules crossed up.


----------



## Kibble Fat

Quote: 





misterx said:


> The soldering looks pretty good so let's assume reflowing is not going to help.
> What are the numbers on the component you have installed in the U2U position?
> What's the color code supposed to be for a 22 ohm resistor?
> And... check that you don't have the TORX and TOTX modules crossed up.


 
  U2U reads: A08L
  My 22 ohm resistor must be mislabeled 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  TOTX and TORX were switched
   
  :BOWDOWN: Thanks MisterX
   
*y1 DAC board*
 +3.3V reads 3.291 V
 +4.5V reads 4.75 V
   
  Unfortunately, I'm only equipped to test the USB-fed functions at this time.  I'll try to get the 22 ohm resistor when I order the enclosure from Newark


----------



## MisterX

Quote: 





> My 22 ohm resistor must be mislabeled


 
   
   
  Or not?  I can't really tell from the image if that that 4th band is red, brown or gold so.....


----------



## Kibble Fat

Quote:  





> Or not?  I can't really tell from the image if that that 4th band is red, brown or gold so.....


 

 It is a 22K resistor, you just missed my poor attempt at a joke 
   
  thanks again!


----------



## midoo1990

guys,i got the chipquick solution,this onehttp://www.chipquick.com/store/prod_smd291st2cc6.htm and still i cant remove the u4u chip
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  i dont know how to remove it,nothing is working.any tips on how to use it?


----------



## MisterX

http://www.chipquikinc.com/instructions.html


----------



## midoo1990

i dont have their solder alloy and my solder isnt working.it is really stuck what should i do?


----------



## MisterX

Cut it off.
   
  A brief guide is provided on the Gamma 1 "Instructions" page
   
   
  Quote: 





> If you don't have Chip Quik, use a sharp knife to cut the leads off the bad chip near the chip body. Take care not to score the board. Then, remove the chip from the board. Heat each solder pad with your soldering iron and scrape away the residual pin. Then, remove any excess solder using your iron and a desoldering braid. Be careful with the iron so you don't melt any surrounding parts. Also, don't heat the board for prolonged periods of time to avoid delamination. Soldering in the new chip will be just like the first time. You need to be careful not to touch the other parts already in place with your iron.


----------



## amb

Quote: 





midoo1990 said:


> i dont have their solder alloy and my solder isnt working.it is really stuck what should i do?


 

 Looks like you only ordered their flux.  You need the SMD removal kit, which includes the flux and the special low-melting point solder.  This is the one you need:
  http://www.chipquick.com/store/prod_smd1.htm
   
  (Also available from Digi-key, part number SMD1-ND).


----------



## midoo1990

oh no,not another order.my wallet is getting empty!!
  by the way,i finished one of my gamma1s and the one of my y2 but just awaiting for some caps for y2.
  the other y1 board is a bit of a mess because of the chips.


----------



## amb

Quote: 





midoo1990 said:


> oh no,not another order.my wallet is getting empty!!


 

 Then just cut the chip out as MisterX said.


----------



## K3cT

Or you can destroy the chip with needle-nose pliers if things get too sticky.


----------



## Kibble Fat

Or try a higher wattage iron.  Be sure to apply some flux.


----------



## Kibble Fat

Case and resistors came in the mail this afternoon.  I checked all voltages again and hooked it up to my laptop and speakers.  It seems to work fine as it will play the short "bing" noise when I change the volume in the Control Panel - Sounds and Audio Devices menu.  Could someone tell me how to get iTunes working with it?  I have music playing, but no sound.


----------



## MisterX

Set it as the default playback device.


----------



## Kibble Fat

I figured it out and forgot to edit my post.  I just had to close and open iTunes again.  It was already open when I changed the setting but the issue could have had something to do with all of my music being on an external.  Anyways, the Gamma2 sounds fantastic!  I'm kind of curious how far the Gamma1 would have taken me, but not that curious lol.
   
  I would highly recommend the red anodized enclosure.  It looks great with the gold RCA/Coax jacks
   
  Thanks again MisterX & AMB!  My next project is a pair of Zaph Audio SR71 speakers.


----------



## cobaltmute

delete and learn to read next page before posting...


----------



## Kibble Fat

Quote: 





cobaltmute said:


> delete and learn to read next page before posting...


 

 retort withdrawn


----------



## ShinyFalcon

I don't think he directed that towards you; he forgot to read the last page before replying.


----------



## cobaltmute

ShinyFalcon is correct.  I responded to something and then saw the answer was already there.


----------



## rontruong

Hey guys! I'm new here and i finally finished my first DIY project... the gamma 1!...
   
  Right now it's pretty ghetto on the faceplates, but I plan to wait for school to start again so I can use the laser machine @ my engineering building.
   




 Uploaded with ImageShack.us




 Uploaded with ImageShack.us
   
  enjoy! looking forward to more DIY stuff in the future


----------



## FishHead

Hi Gang,
   
  Well I just finished the y1 full++ and the results are as follows.  
   
  Wall wort 5.19 V  .6 A
   
  DAC
  jp2D pin1 to ground= null
  jp2D pin2 to ground= null
  jp2D pin3 to ground= null
  3.3V test to ground= null
  4.5V test to ground= null
   
  USB
  5 V  test to ground= null x 2
  3.3V test to ground= null
  Led is not populated as y2 build will immediately follow.
   
  J2U pin 1&2 shorted
  USB cable results:
    "USB Audio Dac", "USB Composite Device", "Human Interface Device" all are shown.
   
  Device manager records it as : usb\vid_08BB&PID_2707\....
   
  Voltages on USB side
   
  5 V #1 = 5.057
        #2 = 5.045
  3.3V    = 3.293
   
  Is there anything else to test before the y2 build?  I did put power to the DAC side and the toggle switch lights up and I get voltage at the 4.5 but not at the 3.3.   I do not have a SPDIF cable nor a coax cable.
   
  Thanks


----------



## MisterX

How do you plan on testing the functionality of the USB to S/PDIF outputs when you don't have the required (optical and coax) cables?
   
  Anyhow...
  Figure out why there is no 3.3 volt reading on the Y1 DAC board then solder the J1, J2, J3, J4 and J5 connectors onto the Y2 board, plug it in to the Y1 and see if it works.


----------



## FishHead

Well I looked at the schematic and as an accountant it tells me squat.   But knowing how much you guys like to recommend re-flowing the SMDs.  I checked the voltage at U5D Pin 1.  Well I had to figure out which was pin one by finding the ground at pin 2.  I had voltage on pin 3 and guessed that was some kind of trigger cause V was the same on U6D pin 3.  I was getting no reading so re-flowed pin 1 and pin 5.  What do you know.  3.3 V at the test point.  
   
  Just to be clear,  if I solder J1 through J5 on the y2 it will make the y1 work...... without any other chips on y2?
   
  As for cables,  why get a cable if I don't have a source for it.  I built the full++ so I would not have to open it up ever again once I am done,  the time savings is so great of just building it out once you would be silly not to do it.
   
  And my accounting hat will come off now.


----------



## MisterX

Quote: 





> Just to be clear,  if I solder J1 through J5 on the y2 it will make the y1 work...... without any other chips on y2?


 
   Yes.


----------



## BobSaysHi

Howdy,
   
  I made a thread already, however I didn't realize there was a dedicated thread for the y1. I'll just post here.
   
  I have picked out parts for my y1, which is just a toslink in, and I am going to hardwire the audio out to my minimax. The case is going to be one of those plastic containers you put leftovers in, however I am planning on buying a large case eventually.

   

  1.) Since I am using a plastic container would I need to ground anything? Should I just man up and buy a case?

   

  2.) I only want one input, is it possible to skip the "NKK G13JVCF bicolor illuminated toggle switch"? From what I understand that switch is used to toggle the inputs. Would I need to solder jumpers to my board to skip this switch?

   

  3.) I've decided to build the σ24 and σ25 kits as well. I think all of the Molex input and output terminals have the wrong pictures in the Mouser Website. Is that correct? I can just skip these and solder directly to the board right?

   

  4.) Can I just cut an existing power cord and use that for the input?

   

  5.) I just noticed that there weren't any fuses installed. Can I add fuses?

   

  6.) Why can't the "Pulse BV030-7151.0 1.5VA EI-30" be used on the both the y1 and y2?

   

  Sorry about all the questions, but I am no electronics engineer. Any help would be appreciated. Also, if you can only answer a couple of these, then please share your knowledge.


----------



## amb

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *BobSaysHi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 1.) Since I am using a plastic container would I need to ground anything? Should I just man up and buy a case?
> 
> 2.) I only want one input, is it possible to skip the "NKK G13JVCF bicolor illuminated toggle switch"? From what I understand that switch is used to toggle the inputs. Would I need to solder jumpers to my board to skip this switch?


 
  I suggest the default case, it just fits better. And add the switch and coax input (if not USB too).  You might only need optical now, but it's handy to have it when you're mixing and matching digital sources and amps.  if you're always trying to build the minimum for the immediate need, you'll find that you'd be wanting to add to it in the future, and multiple parts orders get more expensive.



> 3.) I've decided to build the σ24 and σ25 kits as well. I think all of the Molex input and output terminals have the wrong pictures in the Mouser Website. Is that correct? I can just skip these and solder directly to the board right?


 
  Mouser often uses a generic picture of the series (but with the wrong number of pins or contacts).  As long as the part number is correct, then it's right.  Use the connectors, it will make removing and servicing easier in the future.
   
  Quote: 





> 4.) Can I just cut an existing power cord and use that for the input?


 
  Are you always looking for shortcuts?  Or would you do things "right"?  "Right" in this case means using a standard IEC power cord, and using an IEM power entry module (preferably with built-in fuse, and perhaps a power switch).
   
  Quote: 





> 5.) I just noticed that there weren't any fuses installed. Can I add fuses?


 
  A fuse is a must on the AC primary side.
   
  Quote: 





> 6.) Why can't the "Pulse BV030-7151.0 1.5VA EI-30" be used on the both the y1 and y2?


 
  The VA rating is not high enough for both.


----------



## BobSaysHi

Ok, I clearly am out of my league on the σ25. I'll just buy a wallwart. However, I am notoriously bad at picking out wallwarts, could someone link me the one I need (preferably from Mouser)?
   
  I think I'll buy the case for the y2, since I am planning to expand it next summer anyway. When I upgrade to the y2 I was planning on adding more inputs, but for right now I really don't want to spend 10 dollars on an input and switch I don't need. Can I skip the switch for now? I'll go ahead and add the Molex connectors if they are correct.
   
  Oh, and I wasn't looking for shortcuts, I just didn't know is all.


----------



## amb

You can skip the switch, but it'll be the equivalent as having the switch in the "USB" position unless you add a wire to shunt two of the switch pads (you can figure out which ones by looking at the schematic and mapping the circuit to the PCB layout).  Also, you lose the bicolor LED lock/nolock indication.


----------



## BobSaysHi

Ok, fine. I'll buy the nifty led switch. I've already gone over budget, might as well go all the way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
   
  This build looks pretty straight-forward except for the smd soldering, however I am watching the tutorial videos now.
   
  Thanks for your help amb.


----------



## K3cT

If you plan to upgrade to the y2 then it would be better if you purchase the y2 board as well to connect the USB and DAC portions of your y1 board. Of course you obviously need to install the necessary receptacles on the y2 board.


----------



## BobSaysHi

I'm planning on upgrading in like 8 months. If I jump straight into building the y2, then I wouldn't appreciate the jump in quality. I haven't even gotten my amp yet, I've been plagued by DIY difficulties. I'm planning to just listen to my amp for a month and really understand the quality jump. Then I am going to purchase the parts for the y1. I'm not even sure the quality of my headphones, dt880 250 ohms, could warrant the cost of an upgraded dac, especially when I haven't heard one dac to compare to my motherboard out. I'd like to upgrade my system in 100 dollar bursts, and I am already spending 90% of my high school mowing money on audio. I don't even have enough money to purchase the parts for the y1, and I really don't have the money for a y2. I hope this helps.


----------



## WC Annihilus

K3cT's point actually was not to go and build the y2, but rather simply buy the y2 board while you're already ordering from AMB and use it as the y1's bridge.  The y1 boards have to mated together in some way anyways.  In a typical y1 only build, you either do that by breaking the y1 boards apart and putting them together with the receptacles or leaving them together and using some sort of ribbon cable (often on the backside).  If you're going to be upgrading to a y2 anyways down the road, you might as well just use the y2 board as the bridge (basically just involves soldering only the 3- and 5-pin headers/receptacles on the y2 board and putting the y1 and y2 boards together.  Make sure to double check you have the headers and receptacles in the right spots on the y2 board respective to how you put them on the y1 board before soldering.  I found out the hard way).


----------



## pterodactilo

Hi, I have a question regarding how to place the transformers on the gamma1 boards. I've used two murata DA101C . Here is a schematic since I don't have a camera:


----------



## K3cT

Correct-o.


----------



## yhong26

The external power supply for y1 is 5VDC,300mA according to the AMB.if i use the handphone charger which is 5V 350mA,it will spoil the y1? If
   
  extra currentuse in the y1 will have what effect?will spoil it? But for me,now i use the USB as power supply for my y1,but i check the current of
   
  the USB just 100mA, it is enough current supply y1?


----------



## Nebby

Current rating indicates the maximum amount of current that the power supply can provide, it will not force any more current than the y1 will draw. Your cellphone charger will work for the y1, though of course a linear regulated supply will have less noise.
   
  How did you measure the current draw of the y1?


----------



## yhong26

Quote: 





nebby said:


> Current rating indicates the maximum amount of current that the power supply can provide, it will not force any more current than the y1 will draw. Your cellphone charger will work for the y1, though of course a linear regulated supply will have less noise.
> 
> How did you measure the current draw of the y1?


 

 i just check the USB supply from my laptop, it shown 100mA,now my problem is when i used the USB as power supply SPDIF  as the data,the y1 sometime will not so "stable" output the signal,when i press the next button of my player,the signal will break a while,the LED turn from green to red then turn back to green, because my amp using e12 protection board,so it always sounded "ti-ta ti-ta".sometime i not change the song,when playing the song also will happen "ti-ta ti-ta" sound interupted.this kind of problem is caused by the power supply?


----------



## Nebby

Try using your handphone charger to power it.
  
  Quote: 





yhong26 said:


> i just check the USB supply from my laptop, it shown 100mA,now my problem is when i used the USB as power supply SPDIF  as the data,the y1 sometime will not so "stable" output the signal,when i press the next button of my player,the signal will break a while,the LED turn from green to red then turn back to green, because my amp using e12 protection board,so it always sounded "ti-ta ti-ta".sometime i not change the song,when playing the song also will happen "ti-ta ti-ta" sound interupted.this kind of problem is caused by the power supply?


----------



## yhong26

Quote: 





nebby said:


> Try using your handphone charger to power it.


 


  but the current more than 300mA is not a problem?my charger label there 350mA.


----------



## Nebby

To quote myself with some rewording:
  
  Quote: 





nebby said:


> Current rating indicates the maximum amount of current that the power supply can provide, *it will not force any more current than the y1 will draw and will work for the y1*, though of course a linear regulated supply will have less noise.
> 
> How did you measure the current draw of the y1?


----------



## yhong26

thks a lot...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  i will try it tomorrow...


----------



## yhong26

hi,anybody are the y1 owner?may your y1 change the LED color from green to red,then turn back to green when you press the next button of your PC player?


----------



## amb

Quote: 





yhong26 said:


> hi,anybody are the y1 owner?may your y1 change the LED color from green to red,then turn back to green when you press the next button of your PC player?


 

 Quite possible.  This depends on the player software.


----------



## yhong26

Quote: 





amb said:


> Quite possible.  This depends on the player software.


 


  i used foobar2000 with WASAPI output...does any other recommend?


----------



## amb

Quote:  





> i used foobar2000 with WASAPI output...does any other recommend?


 

 That's a fine combination if WASAPI works for you.  I always seem to have trouble with WASAPI for some reason, so I use ASIO4all instead.  That is, when I use Windows instead of Linux (a rare occurrence).


----------



## yhong26

Quote: 





amb said:


> That's a fine combination if WASAPI works for you.  I always seem to have trouble with WASAPI for some reason, so I use ASIO4all instead.  That is, when I use Windows instead of Linux (a rare occurrence).


 

 so now i also used ASIO instead WASAPI,so there is no problem already.


----------



## Nebby

*runs off and starts a rumor that amb said Linux has better sound quality* 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





amb said:


> That's a fine combination if WASAPI works for you.  I always seem to have trouble with WASAPI for some reason, so I use ASIO4all instead.  That is, when I use Windows instead of Linux (a rare occurrence).


----------



## yhong26

Quote: 





nebby said:


> *runs off and starts a rumor that amb said Linux has better sound quality*


 

 if i got free,i must try,but anybody try it?is real?


----------



## Nebby

It was a *joke*
  
  Quote: 





yhong26 said:


> if i got free,i must try,but anybody try it?is real?


----------



## yhong26

Quote: 





nebby said:


> It was a *joke*


 


  JOKE?hahaa...


----------



## Ntropic

See, I built my y1 sometime during the summer, and found it incredibly bassy. I never really looked into it as I got rather busy when the term started, but recently it really started bothering me, especially with me beginning to put together M^3 BOM (how come Mouser has the worst selection of transformers ever?). So I decided to run a RMAA test.
   
   
   

   
   
  OH MY GOD THAT'S THE WORST ROLL OFF I'VE EVER SEEN/HEARD SINCE I MADE THE MISTAKE OF TRYING ON A BOSE HEADPHONE AT FUTURESHOP.
   
  So yeah, I don't know what's causing it for sure, but I'd bet money that it's the output caps. They're the only part that's really non-standard other than C22D, C24D and C25D, and R9U, which wouldn't be a part of the problem.
   
  So, tell me, what is it about the Nichicon FG-series capacitor, assuming it is the culprit, that isn't doing the job right? They're rated for 22uF and 50V.
   
  http://ca.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Nichicon/UFG1E220MDM/?qs=kArNe9LFxXlrPbLX%252bQEUQw%3d%3d
   
  What should I look for when finding caps to replace these?


----------



## Nebby

Are you plugging headphones directly into the y1 or are you using an amp? If you're using it without an amp, what impedance are the headphones? For your RMAA test, what test load did you use?
   
  In both the case of using a low impedance headphone or running the RMAA test without a test load you effectively form a low pass filter. In amb's parts list documentation he recommends using the 470uf if you plan on driving low impedance headphones:
   
   
   
  Quote: 





> If you plan to drive headphones directly from the γ1, then you should use Nichicon KW or FW 470µF 6.3V or 10V capacitors to avoid low-frequency roll-off.


 
   
   
  Quote: 





ntropic said:


> See, I built my y1 sometime during the summer, and found it incredibly bassy. I never really looked into it as I got rather busy when the term started, but recently it really started bothering me, especially with me beginning to put together M^3 BOM (how come Mouser has the worst selection of transformers ever?). So I decided to run a RMAA test.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Ntropic

The y1 feeds my D2 for headphone listening, and for the test, I don't have a method of loading the DAC. Would using my D2 work as such, or am I going to have to go out and buy some resistors and plugs?
   
  I'd like to note that that frequency response graph holds true when I listen to the y1 through the D2 or even directly through the y1 (albeit with bass roll off because the caps weren't designed for that).


----------



## Nebby

Ah, I totally misread what you typed and the read the graph wrong as well! I can only blame it on just having woken up 
   
  I'm not sure what could be causing your treble roll off....that's new to me.


----------



## amb

Ntropic, did you run your RMAA through the USB input?  What are the USB audio settings on the computer and in RMAA?  I.e., sampling rate, bit resolution, etc.  What version of Windows and what driver path for γ1 (i.e., MME, DirectSound, ASIO)?
   
  I don't see how you would get an early rolloff like that, unless the DAC "thinks" the sampling rate is lower than it actually is.


----------



## Ntropic

This is through coaxial. Windows 7, 16 bit, 48kHz (RMAA, DAC, and Line In), Directsound Realtek Digital Output, MME Line In. I double checked everything, and this time I'm sure the output format is correct.
   
  Here's the whole report. I'd test USB, but I'm pretty sure I killed U1U at some point, as we established at some earlier point in this thread.
   
  http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5703631/ALC885xy1.htm


----------



## amb

Ntropic, measure the voltage on pin 12 of U3D.  At power on it should go to 3.3V for a brief moment and then fall to 0V.  If it stays at 3.3V then either U9D is the wrong part or it's damaged.  WM8501's pin 12 is the "de-emphasis" pin and if set to logic "high", would cause a high frequency rolloff.


----------



## Ntropic

Yeah, the voltage holds stead at ~3.3V on pin 12. Since I'm sure I've got the right part, then it's damaged as you say. I wonder if it'd do anything if I swapped U4D and U9D?


----------



## amb

Quote: 





ntropic said:


> Yeah, the voltage holds stead at ~3.3V on pin 12. Since I'm sure I've got the right part, then it's damaged as you say. I wonder if it'd do anything if I swapped U4D and U9D?


 


  U4D and U9D are not the same part and have opposite behaviors.  U4D should be MCP100 whereas U9D should be MCP101.  Look carefully at what's populated on your board at both locations.


----------



## BobSaysHi

Quote: 





amb said:


> You can skip the switch, but it'll be the equivalent as having the switch in the "USB" position unless you add a wire to shunt two of the switch pads (you can figure out which ones by looking at the schematic and mapping the circuit to the PCB layout).  Also, you lose the bicolor LED lock/nolock indication.


 


  Hi, this quote was from a while ago, however I am still curious.
   
  If I, being a novice, shunt the wrong wires, is it possible to damage the DAC? I am looking at the schematic and figured out that if nothing is jumped, then USB is selected. However the pdf for the switch looks like the two that should connect for toslink are the two closest to the front. The middle is open, so it's either the closest to the front or the back. I think it's the two in front.
   
  To my untrained eyes, it looks like the switch changes the rxp1 or rxp2. That's the best I could do. Am I right?
   
  I am taking an electronic engineering course next year, because all this DIY stuff is really interesting.


----------



## Ntropic

Quote: 





amb said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Looks like I done goofed. My BOM says both MCP100 and 101, but the order list only has two MCP100s. Well, bugger.
   
  CURSE YOU, FAIRLY SIMILAR PART NAMES


----------



## K3cT

Did you happen to order them from Mouser, Ntropic? They made the same mistake to my order as well.


----------



## Ntropic

Yes, from Mouser, but I was talking about my BOM sheet. I had copied over U9D as U4D to the order form because I thought they were the same. Woops.


----------



## Mullet

Anyone happen to have a y1 lite panel schematic that they made up for Front Panel Express? I'm considering doing the y1 lite because I don't really need the full configurations' features.
   
  TIA,
  Mullet


----------



## Mullet

Nevermind. I figured out how to make the panels using Front Panel Express' software and AMB.org's panel measurements. In the end, I decided to go with the full config because cost wise it comes out to be the approximately the same to build the whole enchilada when having to have the panels custom made. It was something like $48.62 plus shipping and taxes to have the y1 lite panels made. Hope this helps someone else and feel free to PM me if you need the Front Panel Express y1 lite project files for both front and back panel.


----------



## Mher6

Just started my y1 build.
   
  I just soldered the U2D on to the pcb and accidently filled in the three tiny holes to the right of U2D (right above R5D).  The three small holes don't seem to connect to anything, but I just wanted to make sure that this was "ok" and that it isn't necessary to remove the solder filling those three holes.  Thanks!!


----------



## BobSaysHi

^ you should be fine


----------



## Mher6

Is there a reason the holes exist in the first place?


----------



## Nebby

To provide a pathway to the other side of the board
  
  Quote: 





mher6 said:


> Is there a reason the holes exist in the first place?


----------



## amb

Quote: 





mher6 said:


> Just started my y1 build.
> 
> I just soldered the U2D on to the pcb and accidently filled in the three tiny holes to the right of U2D (right above R5D).  The three small holes don't seem to connect to anything, but I just wanted to make sure that this was "ok" and that it isn't necessary to remove the solder filling those three holes.  Thanks!!


 

 Those holes are called "vias".  They are plated through and connect to traces on the other side of the board.  No harm done when you fill them with solder.


----------



## headfisupporter

i'm not too sure but you can check out this new site by Farnell http://my.element14.com. They also provide technical support.


----------



## herro

Does anyone have a full .txt or excel sheet for a full or full++ build ? thanks


----------



## herro

At first I couldn't copy and paste everything in one column, but figured out how. You can import this list into mouser. It includes ALL parts listed on the AMB BoM, therefore you will have to manually remove parts you don't need.
   
  Here it is:
   
  γ1 (gamma-1) DAC: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/161376/y1_bom.txt
   
  Even for a full build there is still some parts you will need to remove (if you want) such as the headers.


----------



## Mullet

Just curious... To replace the recommended jumper shunt can I just use a jumper pin from an old PATA hard drive? In fact, I see that the shunt is optional. Do I even need one to complete the project? If this is required and the jumper pin doesn't work, does anyone have an extra that they want to sell me? It would be a PITA to just order one single 13 cent part from Mouser.
   
  Also, Mouser seems to not stock 633-G13JVCF-RO any more. I ordered 633-G13JVCF instead. Will this part make a good replacement?


----------



## amb

Quote: 





mullet said:


> Just curious... To replace the recommended jumper shunt can I just use a jumper pin from an old PATA hard drive?


 

 Yes, as long as the pin spacing is the same 0.1".
   
  Quote: 





> In fact, I see that the shunt is optional. Do I even need one to complete the project?


 
   
  If the jumper is supposed to be "open" for your configuration, then you don't need the shunt.
  If the jumper is supposed to be "short"ed, then you could solder a piece of resistor lead cutoff.
  In both of these cases you don't need the pin headers.
   
  Quote: 





> Also, Mouser seems to not stock 633-G13JVCF-RO any more. I ordered 633-G13JVCF instead. Will this part make a good replacement?


 
   
  Yes, they are the same part.  The -RO suffix means that it is Pb-free (conforms to RoHS requirements).  During the time when manufacturers were transitioning over to RoHS mandates, it was customary to denote the conforming parts differently than those that are not.  But these days almost everyone is compliant (or have waivers), so many of them reverted to using the "base" part numbers.


----------



## Mullet

Quote: 





amb said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  In other words, what you are saying is that if I have "open" positions in my config then I don't even need to install the pin headers there ie JP2U-1, JPJU-2, JP2U-3, JP1D, and JP2D (I'm using auto-switching power). Furthermore, I don't need to even install the pin headers for JP1U because I can use a clipped lead to short pins 1 and 2. I just want to make sure this is clear so I don't muck anything up. Perhaps it would just look nicer if I at least installed pin headers for JP1U anyways and got a shunt to properly "short" those pins.


----------



## amb

"Open" means not connected, "short" means connect.  Whether you use jumpers or wire leads to make the connection is up to you.  When you're not going to connect, the pin headers will serve no purpose.  They are useful only if you plan to change configurations and don't want to solder/desolder.


----------



## Mullet

So I'm in a bit of a conundrum here. I accidentally partially filled (don't ask how) the left hole of R3D. How do I unplug the hole. I've been trying to flux and add more solder and then use a solder pump to extract the solder to no avail. Any other tricks? Should I use some of my ChipQuik solder to see if that works?
   
  Thanks,
  Mullet


----------



## ShinyFalcon

I disliked my solder pump but it has been very useful when it works. Some thin solder wick should help too. If what's plugged up is connected to the ground plane, you'll need a lot of heat there.
   
  If you're feeling adventurous, you can skip the hole and directly solder the lead of R3D to where it needs to be.


----------



## BobSaysHi

Get some desoldering wick.


----------



## amb

Quote: 





mullet said:


> So I'm in a bit of a conundrum here. I accidentally partially filled (don't ask how) the left hole of R3D. How do I unplug the hole. I've been trying to flux and add more solder and then use a solder pump to extract the solder to no avail. Any other tricks? Should I use some of my ChipQuik solder to see if that works?
> 
> Thanks,
> Mullet


 

 Answer: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/401441/how-to-best-clean-out-a-solder-hole-after-desoldering#post_5296747


----------



## Mullet

Quote: 





bobsayshi said:


> Get some desoldering wick.


 

 Tried that. Had several widths and nothing would get the job done. Used a smaller pump as well. Threw everything I could think of at it. Ended up finding a smaller solder iron tip that was conical. Pushed that in from one side and from the other side used a push pin. Between the two pushing out solder, I eventually got the job done. This method seems very similar to amb's method of heating the pad/hole and a dental pick to push the solder out.


----------



## Mullet

So I've recently completed my y1. Actually on Friday to be exact. It took me maybe 15 hours to complete. Sounds great with my Mini3. SMD soldering wasn't as bad as I thought it'd be. I just went slow and thoroughly checked my joints when done. I've only been able to test the unit via USB only, USB + wallwart, and optical + wallwart. Don't have coax digital to test with it. The only thing I've seen with the unit is the LED switch has flickered to red or had a mix of green and red a few times when using a wallwart. The music still plays though. Also, the boards seem to shift back and forth a little bit. They aren't in as tight as they can be. 
   
  Otherwise, this DAC is going to be my perfect work set up to go along with a Mini3 and Grado SR-80s.
   
  Thanks AMB and MisterX!


----------



## amb

Mullet, if you built the Full++ configuration for the Box B2-080 enclosure, then the small amount of board shift is expected because it was sized to also fit the Hammond 1455C80x.  You can apply a thin adhesive foam tape to the inside of the front panel to shim it a bit.  If you upgrade to the γ2 in the future, this problem will go away because the γ2 board is sized only for the B2-080 and will keep the mated γ1 board from shifting.


----------



## Mullet

Nope it's a full config not full ++. I took the faceplates off and reinstalled them. The shift has gone away.
   
  Now I have to troubleshoot why the switch is now fully turning to red from green even though music is still playing. This is happening over an extended period of time. If I tap the enclosure the switch turns back to green. Thus far this is only happening via optical + wallwart. I'll have to test USB and USB + wallwart more thoroughly. Could this have anything to do with U1D? Reflowing that one is going to be a pain in the tushka.


----------



## amb

Try reflowing the joints at U2D pins 14 and 15, U8D, Q1D, Q2D, R12D and R13D.


----------



## Mullet

So I reflowed the joints even though they looked fine under my loupe. Turns out the issue of the colors switching had more to do with the fit of the boards in the case. With a bunch of fidgeting with my optical and usb cables I realized that the initial connections were suboptimal and causing the boards to shift. This shift caused either the loss of signal or at times -- the switch would turn red even though I could still hear music. Perhaps this was exacerbated by the fact that I trimmed my sip-9 pin headers even though in the end I didn't really need to. Anyways, the solution that ended up working was cutting off a piece of foam that came from an op amp I ordered for a CMOY I built. I placed it in between the front panel and the enclosure as AMB had suggested.
   
  Now I'm debating on either building a completely new y2 and selling the one I bought from another DIYer or just adding in the power multiplexer he conveniently decided to not to include forcing me to only use wallwart power.


----------



## Mullet

So based on TI's samples program I'm going to build and audition a y2 in the near to distant future. I see they don't allow for SN74AHC1G02DBVR and SN74AHC1G08DBVR. Could I substitute SN74AHC1G02DRLR and SN74AHC1G08DRLR, which are SOP-5 ICs instead of the SOT-23-5 ICs that are usually used in the y1.


----------



## amb

Quote: 





mullet said:


> So based on TI's samples program I'm going to build and audition a y2 in the near to distant future. I see they don't allow for SN74AHC1G02DBVR and SN74AHC1G08DBVR. Could I substitute SN74AHC1G02DRLR and SN74AHC1G08DRLR, which are SOP-5 ICs instead of the SOT-23-5 ICs that are usually used in the y1.


 

 A look at the datasheets would have revealed that the footprint dimensions are not compatible...


----------



## Mullet

Oops my bad. I guess it's time to start reading up on the data sheets, et al.


----------



## midoo1990

i just resumed my unfinished y2 ++ as i am determined to finish it.i have been very busy at university so i couldnt continue it.
  my y1 JP2D pin 2 and 3 dont read any ohm.i cleaned the board from any residues and it still doesnt read anything.same goes with one of the +5v on the dac board.
  what shall i do?


----------



## amb

Quote: 





midoo1990 said:


> my y1 JP2D pin 2 and 3 dont read any ohm.i cleaned the board from any residues and it still doesnt read anything.same goes with one of the +5v on the dac board.
> what shall i do?


 
   
  What does "any ohm" mean?
   
  It doesn't make sense to measure resistance there unless you're checking for shorts to ground.  An "infinite" reading would be correct, or are you getting zero ohms (which is shorted)?  Also, make sure you take resistance measurements with the y1 powered off.


----------



## midoo1990

Quote: 





amb said:


> What does "any ohm" mean?
> 
> *i am using manual multimeter.no matter what range i choose,the screen reading doesnt change from 1.i assume thats mean there is a short?*
> 
> ...


----------



## amb

Quote: 





midoo1990 said:


> *i am using manual multimeter.no matter what range i choose,the screen reading doesnt change from 1.i assume thats mean there is a short?*


 

 No, on many meters "1" (with no decimal point or fractional digits) means "over-range", and when in resistance mode, it means "open circuit".


----------



## midoo1990

Quote: 





amb said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 when i measure JP2D pin 1,it reads a few ohms as it should so that means its not shorted.and when it reads 1 on both pin 2 and 3,that also mean that it is not shorted?


----------



## amb

Quote:  





> when i measure JP2D pin 1,it reads a few ohms as it should so that means its not shorted.


 

 No, that is not "as it should", if you're measuring resistance to ground.  "A few ohms" is a short.
   
  Quote: 





> and when it reads 1 on both pin 2 and 3,that also mean that it is not shorted?


 
   
  Correct.


----------



## midoo1990

ok,i will try cleaning the back of the board again and check for any bridge and report back.
  thank you for your assistance.always greatly appreciated.


----------



## Mher6

I just finished putting together my y1.  I plan on building the y2 in the near future, and the instructions say to not connect wires to the y1 board if its going to be mated to a y2.  However, on the "initial checks" page on amb's website, it seems the tests assume that the y1 has been connected with wires.  My question is, is it possible to perform the initial checks on my y1 without connecting the wires?


----------



## MisterX

You could just solder the connectors onto the Y2 board and plug it in.
  Alternately you can test the DAC section of the Y1 by connecting an external power supply, jumper the USB board J2U pins 1 and 2 and then use either an optical or coax S/PDIF cable to connect the USB section to the DAC section.


----------



## pterodactilo

Values of R1U and R3U are 22 Ohm but I've measured the resistors I bought to Mouser and the DMM reads 68 Ohm . I don't know if this is such a low value that my cheap multimeter can't measure it accurately or Mouser sent me the wrong parts. Can I install these resistors anyways ?


----------



## amb

Quote: 





pterodactilo said:


> Values of R1U and R3U are 22 Ohm but I've measured the resistors I bought to Mouser and the DMM reads 68 Ohm . I don't know if this is such a low value that my cheap multimeter can't measure it accurately or Mouser sent me the wrong parts. Can I install these resistors anyways ?


 

 What are the resistor color bands?


----------



## pterodactilo

red-red-black-gold . I guess that this is the right color code for 22 Ohm. I don't know about the gold strip, maybe 1% tolerance? But what drives me nuts is that the DMM measures 68 or so ohms consistently. Ok. I've installed these resistors. Now the gamma 1 won't work unless I short JP2D 2-3. With JP2D 2-3 open I get:  4.5V -> 2.5V; 3.3V (dac and usb sections) -> 2.5V; 5V (the closest check point to the GND metal strip) -> 5V; 5V -> 2.5V. I have used the gamma2 board to set communication between the dac and usb sections. I made sure that pin headers in gamma2 and receptacles in gamma1 and vice-versa make contact with the DMM. So I guess that the problem lies in in U1D. I reflowed the chip but still I get the wrong voltages, so shorted JP2D 2-3  with U1D still installed and now voltages are right: 3.3V (both) -> 3.3V, 4.5V -> 4.7V, 5V (both) -> 4.9V. Power source is USB. I can hear music but volume out of my headphones connected straight to the 3.5mm out is too loud,even with the windows 7 audio mixer and the  music player's one (VLC) set to lowest volume. Also I can hear a lot of noise while the audio player is open but no music is playing, then I close the app and still I can hear some hiss, less than while the audio player is open but still quite  noticeable. I've used 470uF caps instead of 22uF for C24D and C25D, if that helps.


----------



## amb

Quote: 





pterodactilo said:


> red-red-black-gold.


 

 That's 22 ohms, 5%.  Btw, the resistors specified in the BOM are metal film 1% and should have 5 color bands.  Not that 1% accuracy is needed here, but what resistors are you using?  Those resistors are specified for their size and fitment.  I hope you didn't mount a bigger resistor tombstone-style.


----------



## pterodactilo

The fifth band is brown. I used all the parts recommended on the amb page and bought them to Mouser. In the case of 22 ohm resistors I used :270-22-RC.


----------



## amb

ok, you should have mentioned all the color bands.  Anyway, that's a 22 ohm resistor, 1%.  If your DMM doesn't measure close to that value, maybe it needs a new battery.  Or maybe it's really that bad (get a better one).


----------



## pterodactilo

Quote: 





amb said:


> ok, you should have mentioned all the color bands.  Anyway, that's a 22 ohm resistor, 1%.  If your DMM doesn't measure close to that value, maybe it needs a new battery.  Or maybe it's really that bad (get a better one).


 


   May the resistors be the cause behind wrong voltage reads at test points or U1D? Please, read two messages before this one (I edited it).


----------



## amb

Quote:  





> May the resistors be the cause behind wrong voltage reads at test points or U1D? Please, read two messages before this one (I edited it).


 

 No, those resistors are unrelated to the power rails.  If reflowing U1D doesn't fix it, maybe it's damaged.


----------



## pterodactilo

Quote: 





amb said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I have replaced U1D but gamma 1 won't work.  5V test pad in the  USB board has 4.9Volts and the other test pads 2.5 Volts only in both the USB board and DAC board. The only way to make it function is shorting JP2D 2-3.


----------



## amb

Quote:  





> I have replaced U1D but gamma 1 won't work.  5V test pad in the  USB board has 4.9Volts and the other test pads 2.5 Volts only in both the USB board and DAC board. The only way to make it function is shorting JP2D 2-3.


 

 This means that there is still something wrong with your U1D.  Did you install it in the correct orientation?


----------



## pterodactilo

yes, I made sure orientation is right. Another strange behaviour is: sometimes voltage at test points begins with 2.5V and then drops to 0 V, in other ocassions voltage remains at 2.5V.


----------



## amb

Sounds like a solder joint problem to me...


----------



## pterodactilo

Quote: 





amb said:


> Sounds like a solder joint problem to me...


 


  I don't know what the problem could be, I have inspected all joints. Also I have replaced U1D once again (probably the last one given that one pad lifted but fortunately I was able to fix it ). I measured voltages directly at U1D 8-7-6-5 pins. I don't have access to the other pins with the gamma2 board mated together so I can't measure them. Relative to GND voltages are: pin 8 0volts, pin 7 2.5Volts, pin 6 4.88Volts, pin 5 0 volts. Pin whose pad  has lifted is 7 but still it makes contact with the lane so it sends 2.5 volts to the voltage regulators U5D and U6D. I don't know why given that it if I am not mistaken pin 7 (out) should be either 8 (in2) or 6 (in1). Here is a pic, I can't take one with better quality sorry,hope that helps:


----------



## amb

Check to make sure your R14D, R15D and R16D resistors have the correct values and that they are soldered well (R14D and R15D should be 47K and R16D should be 1.5K -- measure them).  If you have 4.88V at U1D pin 6 (IN2) and 0V at pin 8 (IN1), then you should have close to 4.88V at pin 7 (OUT).  Look at the schematic and you'll see that there isn't much in that part of the circuit, R14D-R16D and U1D is all there is.  It shouldn't be this difficult if U1D is working properly.


----------



## pterodactilo

Quote: 





amb said:


> Check to make sure your R14D, R15D and R16D resistors have the correct values and that they are soldered well (R14D and R15D should be 47K and R16D should be 1.5K -- measure them).  If you have 4.88V at U1D pin 6 (IN2) and 0V at pin 8 (IN1), then you should have close to 4.88V at pin 7 (OUT).  Look at the schematic and you'll see that there isn't much in that part of the circuit, R14D-R16D and U1D is all there is.  It shouldn't be this difficult if U1D is working properly.


 


  I've measured those resistors and they have the assumed values: R16D = 1.5K, R14D= 47K, R15D = 47K. I did so, took a look at the schematics to figure out what could be wrong , I guess that pin 7 should have the same voltage than pin 6 (4.88V) but for some reason it has only 2.5V . If that tells something now pin 8 measures 0.46 Volts instead of 0 Volts .Either I have defective parts or I ruin them everytime I manipulate them and try to solder to the board. I can't find another explaination.


----------



## pterodactilo

Yesterday I connected the dac and usb sections of gamma 1 with a ribbon cable instead of mating it to the gamma 2 and it works fine with U1D installed. I used both USB and external power and the power multiplexer works as expected , so I guess the problem lies in the gamma 2 module rather than in U1D. Which part of the gamma 2 can make the gamma 1 module stop functioning only if U1D is installed but not when JP2D is shorted ?


----------



## amb

Quote: 





pterodactilo said:


> Yesterday I connected the dac and usb sections of gamma 1 with a ribbon cable instead of mating it to the gamma 2 and it works fine with U1D installed. I used both USB and external power and the power multiplexer works as expected , so I guess the problem lies in the gamma 2 module rather than in U1D. Which part of the gamma 2 can make the gamma 1 module stop functioning only if U1D is installed but not when JP2D is shorted ?


 

 Maybe the inter-board mating pin headers/receptacles are not making good contact?


----------



## pterodactilo

Quote: 





amb said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I tested each pin header/receptacle pair and they make contact.   When gamma 2  is not connected U1D's pin 7 reads 5.25V (wallwart , no USB power)  but just as soon as gamma 2 is mated to the gamma 1 board  pin 7 voltage drops to 2.48Volts.


----------



## amb

Then the problem is on the γ2 board.  Is it a blank board with just the pin headers and receptables?  Or did you already fully populate it?


----------



## pterodactilo

Quote: 





amb said:


> Then the problem is on the γ2 board.  Is it a blank board with just the pin headers and receptables?  Or did you already fully populate it?


 


  It is fully populated.  I should have installed only the pin headers and receptacles and then test the gamma 1 board but since  gamma 1 works properly when the dac and usb sections are connected with a ribbon cable and all test points read the correct voltages I assume that the problem must be in the gamma 2 section.


----------



## amb

OK, so the γ2 board is pulling down the voltage.  Check your X1 oscillator to make sure it's soldered the right way in, and there shouldn't be any solder bridge from its pads to the the oscillator's top cover (except the ground pin).  Check all other SMD devices on the γ2 board for mounting orientation and solder bridges.


----------



## pterodactilo

I checked orientation of  the oscillator (the abracon one)  and the mount surface chips.  Also I have replaced U2 and U1 and reflowed  all pins of U4 and U5 (I don't see any obvious bridges) but still nothing. If that helps the voltages I get on the  gamma2 board are: 
  5V test point : 4.86 V
  5V test point : 1.38 V
  3V test point : 0.02 V
  4.5V test point: 0.00 V


----------



## amb

This should really be in the γ2 thread now that you're debugging that board, but anyways...
  Thes second 5V test point (VBUS) will read low if the USB cable isn't connected to the computer.  So that's probably normal (if you're only using wallwart power).
  The fact that the first 5V test point (VCC) has 4.86V means that the voltage regulators U1 and U2 are getting the correct input voltage, but your 3.3V and 4.5V test points show that they are not producing any output.  Make sure that you have the correct chips installed in U1 and U2 locations (what do the markings say?).
   
  EDIT: I assume your two 5V test points are as I described (VCC and VBUS).  If they're the opposite, then it would be a different problem.


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## pterodactilo

Quote: 





amb said:


> This should really be in the γ2 thread now that you're debugging that board, but anyways...
> Thes second 5V test point (VBUS) will read low if the USB cable isn't connected to the computer.  So that's probably normal (if you're only using wallwart power).
> The fact that the first 5V test point (VCC) has 4.86V means that the voltage regulators U1 and U2 are getting the correct input voltage, but your 3.3V and 4.5V test points show that they are not producing any output.  Make sure that you have the correct chips installed in U1 and U2 locations (what do the markings say?).
> 
> EDIT: I assume your two 5V test points are as I described (VCC and VBUS).  If they're the opposite, then it would be a different problem.


 

 You are right, this should be moved to the gamma 2 thread. I'm  answering there.


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## Mullet

Quote: 





misterx said:


> You could just solder the connectors onto the Y2 board and plug it in.
> Alternately you can test the DAC section of the Y1 by connecting an external power supply, jumper the USB board J2U pins 1 and 2 and then use either an optical or coax S/PDIF cable to connect the USB section to the DAC section.


 


  I'm about to do this myself. Because I'm waiting on a PCM2707, I've decided to only populate the SMDs on the y1 board. I'll add all the other parts when I've received the 2707. However, I've become restless and decided to fully populate the y2 board. If I have an already completed y2 board once my y1 board is complete is it not a good idea to test the y1 with the y2 connected? Otherwise, I guess I could go with your option B. I'm assuming I'd also be using a usb cable in this scenario as well to get my audio signal from my cpu...


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## amb

You could do so, but if it doesn't work, it'll be harder to figure out which board is at fault.  It's best to unit-test things in a piece-wise manner.


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## n19htmare

A while back I built myself a Mini^3. Great little amp and I like it.
   
  I've been thinking about getting a DAC lately to use with my laptop and possibly even my desktop which currently has a modified X-fi Xtreme Music.
   
  My first option was to just buy one, like the Fiio E7. Would also save me the space.
   
  SO I ask you this my fellow  DIYers, have any of you had a chance to do A/B with the Gamma and the FiiO?
   
  How would a Y1 Gamma+ Mini^3 High Performance stack up next to a Fiio E7?


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## Mullet

[size=medium]I would say looking from the specs on Amazon and the specs on AMBs site that the Fiio E7 beats out the Gamma 1. The y1 uses a Wolfson WM8501 vs. the WM8740 that the Fiio uses. To my knowledge the WM8740 is more high end as far as DACs go. In fact, the Gamma 2, which is also designed by AMB can use the WM8740, WM8741, or WM8742. Most people say the WM8741 is the best of the three. For 100 bucks you can't lose with the E7. A full y1 will cost around $140 for parts, but you get the option of digital optical, digital coax, and usb audio in. I think the E7 only has USB in. The E7 has the advantage of also being an amp, which you can do with the y1, but you have to have another form of volume control ie your computer. If it were me I'd spend around $200 and build a Gamma 2, which should out do the E7.​[/size]


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## shrimants

How do you figure out how many of each part listed on the site is necessary?


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## bcg27

Quote: 





shrimants said:


> How do you figure out how many of each part listed on the site is necessary?


 


  Every part is listed with a corresponding yes/no for whether it is necessary for a given configuration. Each line on the parts list is for 1 part, so only one is necessary. Of course, lines use parts that have the same value so you will end up getting more than one of some parts.


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## MisterX

Quote: 





shrimants said:


> How do you figure out how many of each part listed on the site is necessary?


 


 For which configuration?


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## shrimants

full ++. Its OK i answered my own question. The parts are just listed multiple times. I'm trying to get a cost estimate so I can bring it to my dad, and I really wish this parts list could come in an easy X amount of Y part format instead of a circuit board location based format. its ok though, i copied the list to excel and now i just copy paste each section (resistor, capacitor, etc) to random column and order alphabetically, then I can figure out easily how many of each part I need and can make an approximation.

So far i've found that from mouser if I order a pack of 10 of each resistor, I need 10 total types of resistors and it will cost around 12 bucks total. Working on caps now.

EDIT:
Got through caps (about 17 bucks USD), working on semiconductors. Sometimes this parts list has an option between 2 parts. How do you tell which one to get? Right now I am looking at the TI Low Dropout Voltage Regulators. There is one that has a 1.8mV@0A max and another that has 3mv@0A max dropout voltage. these are some of the tiny subtle differences in parts i've noticed, and would rather understand what each part actually does and make an educated purchase rather than guess and assume.


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## shrimants

I'm really confused about this. It says you need to "mate" the gamma 2 to the gamma 1. Does that mean one board sits upside down on top of the other or that there will be 2 seperate enclosures with wires running between the two? Also, I see some people laying the boards side by side (in the gamma 1) while others lay them one on top of another. How do I figure out what enclosure to get?

My friend is going to mill me the parts from his university's CNC mill, so the plates arent a problem to get, but this whole enclosure business has me in a tizzy

EDIT:
Answered my own question: The gamma 2 plops down upside down on top of the gamma 1. the gamma 1 has to be in full or full++ configuration for this to happen. The enclosure they use are the same, (for full++ and gamma2) so now I know. wootski!


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## amb

Quote: 





shrimants said:


> EDIT:
> Got through caps (about 17 bucks USD), working on semiconductors. Sometimes this parts list has an option between 2 parts. How do you tell which one to get? Right now I am looking at the TI Low Dropout Voltage Regulators. There is one that has a 1.8mV@0A max and another that has 3mv@0A max dropout voltage. these are some of the tiny subtle differences in parts i've noticed, and would rather understand what each part actually does and make an educated purchase rather than guess and assume.


 
   
  The alternatives are basically equivalent or very similar.  Get whichever is in stock at your favorite vendor.
  
  Quote: 





shrimants said:


> I'm really confused about this. It says you need to "mate" the gamma 2 to the gamma 1. Does that mean one board sits upside down on top of the other or that there will be 2 seperate enclosures with wires running between the two? Also, I see some people laying the boards side by side (in the gamma 1) while others lay them one on top of another. How do I figure out what enclosure to get?
> 
> My friend is going to mill me the parts from his university's CNC mill, so the plates arent a problem to get, but this whole enclosure business has me in a tizzy
> 
> ...


 
   
  All this is explained in detail on the front page of the γ2 website (with pictures to boot).  Did you read it?


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## shrimants

Heheh yes, thats where I got the info from . I read through the gamma 2 and gamma 1 overview pages. Previously I wasnt 100% committed to this project because I wasnt sure how much everythign would end up costing or if I would get the funding for it from my parents or have to pony up myself. I know the soldering iron I have is so worn out and useless that I'd need to replace it and get a proper station before trying anything. I still need to learn how to read the schematic and whatnot too. Its still in the planning stages but now I at least know that the resistors, caps, and semiconductors cost about 50 bucks total from mouser. I still have to go through the miscellaneous parts list and total those up, plus I gotta print out the schematic and diagrams for the drill plates and give them to my dad. My friend offered to do the drilling for me to get the face plates but he wanted me to create it in Sketchup or some other CAD software first, and I dont know anything about CAD so thats a bit difficult for me to do. I might give it a whirl just for craps and giggles.


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## Mullet

This is all you need with regards to the parts you *actually* need...
  http://nihilex.com/sites/nihilex/files/gamma1-parts.html
   
  Click on the version you're doing and then click on Mouser, Digikey, etc to get a list...
   
  The above linked site saved me a ton of time when I did my Gamma 1.


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## shrimants

I wish you would have shown me this sooner. I am not entirely sure if this guy includes the components that were "optional" or not. I created an excel sheet that had every part with pricing next to it and figured it all out myself, and I got all the optional components too. It came out to about 130 bucks total. The misc. parts alone+board+enclosure (no plates) cost 65, the resistors cost 3.25, the caps cost 18 bucks and the semiconductors cost 35 or something. I am planning on building the gamma 2 after the gamma 1 is done. My dad is going to be funding both projects.

Right now i'm completely ready to place the mouser order, I just need to make sure I have a soldering station, one of those arm holding things, a microscope, liquid flux, etc all set up. I refuse to attempt this project with my 8 year old 10 dollar radioshack soldering iron that i learned to solder on. That thing is LONG past the end of its days. Sure, it heats up, but it would be more accurate to use a hair dryer or a toaster oven to solder the parts on 

Incase you are interested in my spreadsheet (or, you know, get the sudden inexplicable urge to check my work) here is the sheet as it stands right now.


http://ompldr.org/vODR6ZQ

Note that I havent bothered going through the gamma 2 parts list just yet. I'll save that for when I am done with the Gamma 1+pics of my progress. All I did is take each section (resistors, caps, sc, misc) and copypasted the list into a column. then i removed the parts with an "N" next to them, kept everything that had an O because the notes pretty much all said "if you want to gamma 2 later, you need this", then wherever it said "AMB Audio Shop" I put the actual AMB description and denoted in bold what I had to purchase from amb vs mouser. Luckily every single part is available through mouser or AMB except that enclosure. The enclosure I can even buy locally though, although it will cost me 16 bucks vs the 10 USD msrp the company lists it for. Or I can order from the people I have listed for 14 bucks and they have good ratings.

Let me know if theres any questions or if I made some sort of horrific glaring error.


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## Mullet

Everything is correct with that web page. If you're doing Full ++ click on F and you'll get all the parts that you need. The few optional things like the JP1U and JP1D pin headers might not be needed. I believe you can use a snipped lead and solder that in to get the desired effect. Using the pin headers allows you to change the config a little bit easier. You can use a shunt from an old PATA HD instead of ordering one. I'd definitely get the power multiplexer. This allows you to use USB or DC power. Without it you can only do either or. Also if you're doing the Full ++ I don't think you need any of the pin headers or receptacles. You'd use an old computer ribbon cable instead. I did a Y1 Full so I needed the pin headers and receptacles to marry both the USB and DAC boards together.
   
  On a side note, I snipped my 9 pin SIP header pins (the ones that come with the y1 board) a bit and now I don't get a great connection between boards. In fact I have to jiggle my optical connection a bit to get the right connection. It's kind of annoying and now I wish I didn't snip the header pins.


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## shrimants

tomorrow perhaps i'll look over that site and see if my stuff matches their stuff as far as the optional parts go. I need to do that anyways because like i said, if it had an O i put it in my list. Worst case scenario i'd have an extra part laying around, which is never a bad thing. The next step is to double check the list and make sure ive got what i need, then i'll see if I can borrow a soldering station from my dads work or from a friend. Affter that its a simple matter of making the list and ordering things.


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## txlee

Pls adv if gamma 1 can be played like a portable headphone amp., carried at our side to listen musics, just like mini3


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## rjkdivin

txlee,
  The Gamma 1 can be used with headphones directly if the output coupling caps are substituted....you will find this discussion elsewhere in this thread. It requires changing the standard C24D and C25D to 470uF caps. However, this is not a self powered DAC. It requires an external power source from a USB source or from a wallwart depending upon how you configure it, and it does not have its own volume control so volume must be controlled from your source. Therefore, it cannot be used for a 'portable' headphone amp as it is designed. It is not like the Mini3.


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## civilmonkey

Hi All,
   
  I just finished a y1, B configuration.  I used the kit from Glass Jar Audio.  I passed all the checks, the computer recognizes it no problem and it plays music.  The problem is the sound has a significant hum, is hollow sounds lacking mids and bass, as well sounds underwater at times (wah wah effect), or has a reverb effect.  I've checked the usual silly mistakes, jumpers are in the right place, flux has been cleaned, etc.  I'm fairly confident of my SMD soldering but could try re-flowing.  If I had to guess, the hum sounds 60hz ish.
   
  Anybody run into this or have any suggestions?

 Thanks in advance,


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## Nebby

Do you have clear detailed pictures of the board?


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## civilmonkey

Sat down to post... But.... The hum sounded suspiciously like a ground loop hum or such.  The DAC is connected to my DIY PIMETA.  The PIMETA is a metal case, and the output jack (headphone), is grounded to the case, however the input jack is not.  At the time I thought, while, I only have 2 jacks, and since they are different looking, it's a good way to tell the source/input apart.
   
  While playing music using the DAC/PIMETA, if you touch the metal case, you can greatly affect the sound, even turn if off, just by touching the case.  Running my RE-0's directly through the DAC and it sounds like it's supposed it.  Second test, I touches the ground strip on the DAC to the top of the PIMETA with no music playing.  The hum immediately went away and it was silent.  Playing music now sounded great.
   
  So that was the problem.  Thanks


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## Nebby

Glad you got it figured out!


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## WesrFegT

A while back I tried some tentative steps into (DIY) Audio equipment, which among other things resulted in a 95% finished gamma DAC,
  And after some time I've decided to look into better audio again. Looking at the AMB website it was quite easy to source the missing parts I forgot the first time around .
  But I have a question about the AC-DC adapter. Since I have difficulties finding one terminating at a 1.3 mm connection, I guess the way forward is to pick a 5V adaptor with mutiple output formats.
   
  Found this one on the Farnell website and by the looks of it will fit the bill, but can´t seem to find the output types.
http://nl.farnell.com/ideal-power/25hk-aj-050a300-cp/psu-desktop-plug-in-15w-5v/dp/2112009?in_merch=New%20Products
   
  It should be for western europe (the netherlands) so would be 230 V / 50 Hz
   
  Pretty sure that´ll do the trick, but a confirmation would be nice (if it is indeed the right one).
  Also would the quality of such a simple adaptor have an influence on the sound quality? Or would I'd be better off to save some money on it?
   
  Thanks in advance


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## amb

Yes, that should work. Another solution is to buy a 1.3mm power plug and then replace the one on any 5VDC 300+mA regulated adapter.


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## WesrFegT

Thank you for your quick reply and suggestion.
  For now I'll get myself a basic charger and down the road when the rest of my equipment is of some higher quality I'll swap it out for something a bit more sophisticated.


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## fruitflavor

just got my kit from glass jar audio w/o panels since i will probably upgrade to gamma 2 after a while.
  I used to solder and do a lot of DYI things in elementary and high school and haven't done anything in over four years and thought this kit would be fun kit to get back into it.
  My first impression after opening the kit and having never done surface mounting my reaction was : i'm in for a lot of trouble.


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## jinschoi

Regarding soldering:
   
  I built my gamma-1 a few years ago. I used the 30 watt Radio Shack soldering iron, and it worked fine. I would encourage people not to let the lack of an expensive Hakko soldering station hang them up. I'm not saying more expensive soldering irons aren't better, of course they are, but it's not a must have. Just buy a new tip if the one you have is old.
   
  For the fine pitch ICs, try out the "drag soldering" method, where you lay down a glob of solder across all the pins, then wick up the excess with desoldering braid.
   
  Liquid flux really makes things easier, definitely worth using.
   
  And finally, if you're entirely new to surface mount soldering, work out your jitters on a cheap SMD soldering practice kit from any number of online electronics vendors. Here is one: http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G3114. $8 and you can get all your practice in.


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