# What computer speakers to get?



## nuraman00

I am coming from a 1999 Microsoft Digital System 80 2.1 speaker set.
  
 I moved last year to a house with hardwood floors, and I don't know if it's the floors, or if something happened during the move, but now the subwoofer rattles too much.
  
 Here's a sample:
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-atPJ-bjF0
  
 This past weekend, I tried removing the screws to the subwoofer, but after that, I couldn't open the subwoofer any further.  I thought I might be able to open it up and further identify the source of the rattling.
  
 I also tried placing a towel underneath it, but it didn't help.
  
 The bass rattling problem doesn't just affect music though, I can be watching a normal non-music video, and it can sometimes sound bad.
  
 So, I am looking at new computer speakers.
  
 * I don't listen to music very often on my computer speakers.  Usually I use a portable device and headphones.
  
 * Wireless is nice, but not a must have. 
  
 * I like how my current speakers have a mute button, very convenient.  But, I can get a $15 Amazon keyboard with a mute button, so not a big deal.
  
 * I mostly listen to hard rock and heavy metal.  The sample I posted above is one of the non heavy rock songs I have, but is a good test for bass.
  
 1)  Bowers & Wilkins MM-1.
  
 I have their P7 headphones, and I like them.
  
 These look like they'll be good.  Don't have wireless.
  
 http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/Speakers/Computer-Speakers/MM-1
  
 No, they don't have a subwoofer, but it might still sound ok.
  
 2)  Focal XS 2.1
  
 http://www.focal.com/usa/en/focal-xs-21/266-focal-xs-21.html
  
 These aren't wireless either.
  
 3)  Klipsch Pro Media 2.1 Wireless
  
 http://www.klipsch.com/products/klipsch-promedia-2-1-computer-speakers#promedia-2-1-wireless
  
 I heard the non-wireless version several years ago, and liked them.  Casually heard them, not an in depth listening.
  
 The wireless is only 30 feet though, so for a house, that isn't very much.
  
 I don't mind getting 2 of these, comparing them, and returning one.


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## PurpleAngel

What is your budget for the audio?


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## nuraman00

purpleangel said:


> What is your budget for the audio?


 
  
 The Klipsch is $200, the Bowers and Wilkins are $474 on Amazon.
  
 About $500 would be the max, I'd have to have a very good reason to go over.
  
 These aren't the main way I listen to music, I like the sound and portability of my Bowers and Wilkins headphones, so computer speakers are just a secondary means.
  
 If there's something else you'd recommend, I'll take a look, and give me your reasons why over some of my suggestions.


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## Shibleh-Fi

I'd like to suggest checking out a set of Swan m50w speakers. I think they're simply the best 2.1 setup for computer that I've ever had. Ive had my speakers for 3 years and they are still perfect. They're also within your budget range.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/568149/some-impressions-of-the-swan-m50w


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## darkforce

Depending on your budget, I'd like to recommend Definitive Technology Incline, rich bass response.


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## PurpleAngel

nuraman00 said:


> The Klipsch is $200, the Bowers and Wilkins are $474 on Amazon.
> About $500 would be the max, I'd have to have a very good reason to go over.
> These aren't the main way I listen to music, I like the sound and portability of my Bowers and Wilkins headphones, so computer speakers are just a secondary means.
> If there's something else you'd recommend, I'll take a look, and give me your reasons why over some of my suggestions.


 
  
 I use the Monoprice 5" studio monitors 
 Normally $170, on sale for $130.
 http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=605500
 They are based on the M-Audio BX5a studio monitors, which at one time sold for $250-$300.
 So I doubt you will be able to find a better bang for the buck.
  
 For something that is not going to be used very often, can't see spending more then what you would for the Monoprice 5".


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## nuraman00

shibleh-fi said:


> I'd like to suggest checking out a set of Swan m50w speakers. I think they're simply the best 2.1 setup for computer that I've ever had. Ive had my speakers for 3 years and they are still perfect. They're also within your budget range.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/568149/some-impressions-of-the-swan-m50w


 
  
 Is this a good price for it?
  
 They have a 30 day return policy, which I like.
  
 https://www.chanemusiccinema.com/multimedia-desktop/hivi-acoustics/m50w
  
 I like the controls on it.


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## Shibleh-Fi

I paid 350aud for mine. So I believe that's a good price. And with that return policy you're pretty safe. Though, you won't be returning them .


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## nuraman00

darkforce said:


> Depending on your budget, I'd like to recommend Definitive Technology Incline, rich bass response.


 

 This one, right?
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Definitive-Technology-Incline-Audiophile-Desktop/dp/B00G5CKH6O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1463378449&sr=8-1&keywords=Definitive+Technology+Incline
  
 I have a SPDIF out port on my PC, so that would be good to use, right?  I'd have to get a TOSLINK cable, it's not included.


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## nuraman00

purpleangel said:


> I use the Monoprice 5" studio monitors
> Normally $170, on sale for $130.
> http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=605500
> They are based on the M-Audio BX5a studio monitors, which at one time sold for $250-$300.
> ...


 
  
 That's a really good deal.


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## nuraman00

BTW, have any of you listened to the sample I posted in the OP?
  
 There is something wrong with my subwoofer, and it's not my setup (hardwood floors, windows nearby), right?


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## darkforce

nuraman00 said:


> This one, right?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Definitive-Technology-Incline-Audiophile-Desktop/dp/B00G5CKH6O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1463378449&sr=8-1&keywords=Definitive+Technology+Incline
> 
> I have a SPDIF out port on my PC, so that would be good to use, right?  I'd have to get a TOSLINK cable, it's not included.


 
  
 Yes, DT Incline built-in DAC support USB and Optical TosLink for digital input, the original package include speaker cable, 3.5 cable, usb cable, power cable.


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## nuraman00

So I saw this unboxing video, the controls are how I thought they'd be.  Nice.
  

  
 I'm going to sleep on it, but I think I'll get the Klipsch and the Swans, and pick the one I like better.
  
 In 2014, I compared 3 headphones side by side, over 26 different songs, so I can do a similar comparison. 
  
 I won't go that exhaustive this time though, since it's not my primary way to listen.
  
 Right now, on the surface, the Klipsch seems to have wireless going for it (but 30 feet), while I like Swans controls.  I love the way you can mute it, easy muting is something I liked about my current speakers too.
  
 Is there any other system that has wireless that's also good?  Maybe one that's more than 30 feet?
  
 I don't think I'll use wireless now, but you never know what can happen in a few years.
  
 Or maybe 30 feet is fine, because people don't really stream stuff to speakers farther away than that.
  
 If I get both speakers, I'm going to both have them set up at the same time, so I can just switch between them when playing the audio.


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## nuraman00

nuraman00 said:


> BTW, have any of you listened to the sample I posted in the OP?
> 
> There is something wrong with my subwoofer, and it's not my setup (hardwood floors, windows nearby), right?


 
  
 I just want someone to confirm this.
  
 I don't want to have the excitement of getting new speakers, only to realize I have the same problem, and it's something wrong with my setup environment.


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## nuraman00

Oh, and if anyone has any other 2.1 systems with wireless capability, please suggest them.
  
 Thanks.


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## nuraman00

nuraman00 said:


> So I saw this unboxing video, the controls are how I thought they'd be.  Nice.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




  
 Just for my reference, found this thread comparing them.
  
 There's not much of a conclusion or consensus, oh well.
  
 https://hardforum.com/threads/klipsch-pro-media-2-1-vs-swan-m505.1755380/


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## nuraman00

darkforce said:


> Yes, DT Incline built-in DAC support USB and Optical TosLink for digital input, the original package include speaker cable, 3.5 cable, usb cable, power cable.


 
  
 Thinking more about darkforce's recommendation, is there something else with a built-in DAC, that is also wireless?
  
 While I won't be using the wireless now, that's something that might change a few years from now, if my habits change, or I want audio for a wider audience.  I've had my current speakers for 16+ years, and I'd imagine if I keep my next pair for almost as long, having wireless seems like a good technology to have, for the future.


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## darkforce

nuraman00 said:


> Thinking more about darkforce's recommendation, is there something else with a built-in DAC, that is also wireless?
> 
> While I won't be using the wireless now, that's something that might change a few years from now, if my habits change, or I want audio for a wider audience.  I've had my current speakers for 16+ years, and I'd imagine if I keep my next pair for almost as long, having wireless seems like a good technology to have, for the future.


 
  
 KEF X300A Wireless has USB DAC and wireless, great sound but over your budget.  If you can accept wireless only (include Bluetooth), there will be a lot of speaker can choose.


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## nuraman00

darkforce said:


> KEF X300A Wireless has USB DAC and wireless, great sound but over your budget.  If you can accept wireless only (include Bluetooth), there will be a lot of speaker can choose.


 
  
 Thanks for the recommendation.  $1000, yeah, over my budget.  But at least I know what else is out there.
  
 What are a few other wireless options other than the Klipsch? 
  
 If you could choose one, built in DAC or wireless, what would you choose, and why?
  
 There's nothing that has both, that's good, around $500 or a little more?


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## Sanlitun

I have the MM-1 and for near field listening they are pretty much unbeatable in this price range. Everything else has off the shelf silk tweeters and just cannot image like the MM-1. The Focal and the Klipsch models you listed are not even close and as well I would stay away from the Audioengine speakers, they are junk.
  
 But as you mention the MM-1 don't have a subwoofer and they may not be loud enough for you.


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## darkforce

> Originally Posted by *nuraman00* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> If you could choose one, built in DAC or wireless, what would you choose, and why?
> 
> There's nothing that has both, that's good, around $500 or a little more?


 
 I will give priority to DAC, because it is related to sound quality, and wireless just for convenience.
  
 If you can afford more, KEF X300A Wireless is great choice according to your needs. DT Incline or Sanlitun's recommendation B&W MM-1 both great for DAC only ,and I will recommend SONOS Play:1 for Wireless only.
  
 BTW you can check KEF EGG and Focal Little Bird for $500, they both have DAC and wireless.


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## cel4145

nuraman00 said:


> I'm going to sleep on it, but I think I'll get the Klipsch and the Swans, and pick the one I like better.




Not sure if their features fit what you want, but I'd recommend demoing the JBL LSR 305 vs. the Klispch Promedias. Much, much better speaker, and if you google for reviews and testimonials, you'll find that people generally find them to be the best of the <$500 speaker class. They are rated 43 Hz-24 kHz, so they will have good deep bass for music without a sub.


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## nuraman00

sanlitun said:


> I have the MM-1 and for near field listening they are pretty much unbeatable in this price range. Everything else has off the shelf silk tweeters and just cannot image like the MM-1. The Focal and the Klipsch models you listed are not even close and as well I would stay away from the Audioengine speakers, they are junk.
> 
> *But as you mention the MM-1 don't have a subwoofer and they may not be loud enough for you. *


 
  
 Loudness isn't a priority.
  
 I also have the Bowers and Wilkins P7 headphones, and I like the sound, so I trust the brand, and that's also why I listed the MM-1 as a possibility.


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## nuraman00

Bowers and Wilkins also has the A7, which is the wireless version of the MM1.  But there's a lot of complaints on Amazon about the wireless itself, and how AirPlay doesn't work.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Bowers-Wilkins-A7-Wireless-AirPlay/product-reviews/B009QSMRP8/ref=cm_cr_getr_d_paging_btm_1?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1&sortBy=recent&pageNumber=1
  
 I am not on iOS, but I wouldn't want something that doesn't really work with Apple, in case anyone else wanted to connect via Air Play.
  
 EDIT:  It's also a single speaker, instead of a pair.


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## nuraman00

darkforce said:


> I will give priority to DAC, because it is related to sound quality, and wireless just for convenience.
> 
> If you can afford more, KEF X300A Wireless is great choice according to your needs. DT Incline or Sanlitun's recommendation B&W MM-1 both great for DAC only ,and I will recommend SONOS Play:1 for Wireless only.
> 
> *BTW you can check KEF EGG and Focal Little Bird for $500, they both have DAC and wireless.*


 
  
 Thanks for the suggestion.  I've spent a little time looking into these. 
  
 One observation I have is that the satellites for these appear to have no controls on them.


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## nuraman00

cel4145 said:


> Not sure if their features fit what you want, but I'd recommend demoing the JBL LSR 305 vs. the Klispch Promedias. Much, much better speaker, and if you google for reviews and testimonials, you'll find that people generally find them to be the best of the <$500 speaker class. They are rated 43 Hz-24 kHz, so they will have good deep bass for music without a sub.


 
 The reviews for this are really good.
  
 The controls are on the back.


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## nuraman00

It seems like there's 3 things to consider:
  
 * Built-in DAC
 * Wireless
 * 2.1 system
  
 And for my suggested budget, I most likely will only find 2 of the 3.
  
  
 Ok, I finally found a diagram for the Kef EGG, there are controls on the satellite.
  
 http://www.kef.com/uploads/images/en/egg/qsg/KEF_EGG_QSG_preview_080515_2.pdf
  
 I guess I can use the power button as a mute button.


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## nuraman00

Another question:  The Kef EGG has optical in.
  
 The MM-1 does not.
  
 How much of a factor would the optical connection from my computer make?
  
 I don't mean to say that this is as equal as other factors, when determining the sound quality of speakers.  Just wondering how much emphasis I should give this.


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## cel4145

nuraman00 said:


> The reviews for this are really good.
> 
> The controls are on the back.




Then either (a) use your keyboard or (b) get a pro-audio dac/pre amp to go with it: http://www.amazon.com/Focusrite-2i2-USB-Recording-Interface/dp/B005OZE9SA. Then you can put it wherever you want it on your desk 

BTW: I'm not a fan of wireless over wired. Typically you are paying for the convenience technology of the wireless. Built in DACs? With your budget, you can afford an external dac if you want.


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## nuraman00

cel4145 said:


> Then either (a) use your keyboard or (b) get a pro-audio dac/pre amp to go with it: http://www.amazon.com/Focusrite-2i2-USB-Recording-Interface/dp/B005OZE9SA. Then you can put it wherever you want it on your desk
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 This brings up another question I was thinking about, even before I read this response.
  
 For speakers that have built-in DACs, is using that better than a sound card's DAC processing?


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## cel4145

nuraman00 said:


> For speakers that have built-in DACs, is using that better than a sound card's DAC processing?




Might be. Hard to know.


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## nuraman00

nuraman00 said:


> Another question:  The Kef EGG has optical in.
> 
> The MM-1 does not.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Any thoughts on this?


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## nuraman00

The 15% restocking fee is a bit of a downer, for the KEF, especially when I want to compare 2 sets of speakers, and might have to return them if I like them less.
  
 The EGG is on sale through May 22nd for $400.
  
 https://www.kefdirect.com/egg-digital-wireless-speakers.html


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## nuraman00

cel4145 said:


> Then either (a) use your keyboard or (b) get a pro-audio dac/pre amp to go with it: http://www.amazon.com/Focusrite-2i2-USB-Recording-Interface/dp/B005OZE9SA. Then you can put it wherever you want it on your desk
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  


darkforce said:


> I will give priority to DAC, because it is related to sound quality, and wireless just for convenience.
> 
> If you can afford more, KEF X300A Wireless is great choice according to your needs. DT Incline or Sanlitun's recommendation B&W MM-1 both great for DAC only ,and I will recommend SONOS Play:1 for Wireless only.
> 
> BTW you can check KEF EGG and Focal Little Bird for $500, they both have DAC and wireless.


 
  
 (Quoting both of these posts as they discuss wireless).
  
 Ok, after doing some research, I will drop wireless from consideration.  I see that I can get an Airport Express, and connect speakers to it, if I want a wireless setup.
  
 But for the budget I am trying to keep, I can have the money go toward other considerations.
  
 So, now I think the things I am considering are:
  
 * Built-in DAC
 * 2.1 system
 * Optical connection.


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## nuraman00

BTW, Bowers & Wilkins has a 60 day trial policy.  That's very nice.  No restocking fee.


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## darkforce

nuraman00 said:


> So, now I think the things I am considering are:
> 
> * Built-in DAC
> * 2.1 system
> * Optical connection.


 
  
 Even without wireless, but also not much choice on 2*.1* with Optical DAC, many 2 system speaker list above has good low-frequency and bass.


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## nuraman00

darkforce said:


> Even without wireless, but also not much choice on 2*.1* with Optical DAC, many 2 system speaker list above has good low-frequency and bass.


 
  
 You're probably right, but I think I have to at least compare one system with a 2.1 to see if I still want the good low frequency and bass, and if I still think it's missing compared to one without one.
  
 What combination of 2 systems do you think would at least help me cover all 3 factors?
  
 If I do the MM-1 and the Swan 2.1 system, neither would have the optical connection.  And you think I should try to get it, right?
  
 Thanks for your advise in this thread btw.
  
 The combination that would give me all 3 to compare would be the Swan, and the Definitive Audio Incline.
  
 When I was comparing headphones in 2014, I got 3 different ones.  I think it's easier to compare headphones though, as I can just unplug and switch.
  
 With speakers, I'd want all 3 speakers set up at the same time, and I think doing that would take too much space.
  
 I'd feel bad about not trying the Bowers since after a comparison I went with their headphones, so I want to try their speakers too, having liked one of their other products.


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## cel4145

Is there some reason you are set on optical output? You could get a Schiit Fulla and plug speakers into it. And it would sound very nice with your headphones if you wanted to use them with your computer: http://schiit.com/products/fulla.


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## cel4145

Never mind. See you have considered the Inclines, and I recommended them again


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## nuraman00

cel4145 said:


> Never mind. See you have considered the Inclines, and I recommended them again


 
 Thanks.  Both you and darkforce like the Inclines.
  
 Ok, one more update to my thoughts.  I don't need a separate subwoofer if they come with built-in woofers like these do:
  
 http://www.klipsch.com/products/r-15pm-powered-monitors
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Wharfedale-DIA101-CHR-Diamond-10-1-Cherry/dp/B0079XG53W


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## cel4145

Well, some of the computer multimedia speaker subwoofers are more toys than subs. What you want to look at is the rated frequency response. And often with the computer multimedia speakers (probably not the Swans, though), they will be overly optimistic. 

Whereas speakers like these will have excellent bass response down to about 50hz: https://emotiva.com/products/powered-monitors/speakers/airmotiv-5s. 

JBL LSR 305s are good down into the 40hz range: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LSR305. They are generally considered some of the best speakers you can buy for <$500. Pair them with a Focusrite USB audio interface DAC, and you'd have a great setup: http://www.amazon.com/Focusrite-2i2-USB-Recording-Interface/dp/B005OZE9SA


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## drews

cel4145 said:


> Whereas speakers like these will have excellent bass response down to about 50hz: https://emotiva.com/products/powered-monitors/speakers/airmotiv-5s.


 
  
 FWIW, I'd be willing to pay much more for the Airmotiv's than the B&W MM-1 (fortunately they're actually cheaper!).


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## nuraman00

cel4145 said:


> Well, some of the computer multimedia speaker subwoofers are more toys than subs. What you want to look at is the rated frequency response. And often with the computer multimedia speakers (probably not the Swans, though), they will be overly optimistic.
> 
> Whereas speakers like these will have excellent bass response down to about 50hz: https://emotiva.com/products/powered-monitors/speakers/airmotiv-5s.
> 
> JBL LSR 305s are good down into the 40hz range: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LSR305. They are generally considered some of the best speakers you can buy for <$500. Pair them with a Focusrite USB audio interface DAC, and you'd have a great setup: http://www.amazon.com/Focusrite-2i2-USB-Recording-Interface/dp/B005OZE9SA


 
 Yeah, I've been looking at the frequency responses of each pair I'm researching.  But, I haven't always taken them as an absolute truth.
  
 Also, you and I had a mini conversation on AVS on why I was favoring optical vs. USB on DAC.  I guess I thought the optical would just be better, but if there's no difference from one digital connection to another between the two (USB and optical), then you're right, there is no reason to favor optical.  Only small thing would be to free up a USB port, but I do have some to spare in the back of my tower.
  
 Also, over the past week, while I initially put some emphasis on the speakers having convenient controls, based on many of the recommendations, it just seems like the better speakers will have controls on the back.  I will have to accept that that's how things are, and I'll get a $15 Amazon keyboard for easy sound / mute controls.
  
 If I go with the JBL's, I'd probably go with the 8" version.
  
  


cel4145 said:


> Is there some reason you are set on optical output? You could get a Schiit Fulla and plug speakers into it. And it would sound very nice with your headphones if you wanted to use them with your computer: http://schiit.com/products/fulla.


 
  
 So with the Schiit vs. the Focusrite, I can connect more stuff to the Focusrite, right?  Like instruments, if I were recording.
  
 So I'd connect a left and right output on the Focusrite below (bottom image):
  

  
 To the TRL input (that's to the right of the XLR one) below, right?


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## nuraman00

I guess with the JBLs, I have to use a DAC, since I can't connect it directly to the PC.
  
 If I ever wanted to remove the DAC to use it with something else, then I wouldn't have any computer speakers connection.


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## nuraman00

Is there a DAC you'd recommend with both optical and USB?
  
 So that I could also try the DAC with my portable CD player.
  
 I see this one has both, just not sure if there's a different one someone would recommend.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Audioengine-D1-24-bit-Digital-to-Analog-Converter/dp/B006IPH5H2/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1463868524&sr=8-12&keywords=dac+with+optical+and+usb


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## cel4145

nuraman00 said:


> So with the Schiit vs. the Focusrite, I can connect more stuff to the Focusrite, right?  Like instruments, if I were recording.




Yep. Got an electric guitar you want to plug in? 



Yes. The TRS outputs on the back of the Focusrite to the ones on the JBLs. 



nuraman00 said:


> Is there a DAC you'd recommend with both optical and USB?
> 
> So that I could also try the DAC with my portable CD player.




Just use the CD player on your computer. No benefit from using a portable CD player instead.


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## nuraman00

nuraman00 said:


> Is there a DAC you'd recommend with both optical and USB?
> 
> *So that I could also try the DAC with my portable CD player.*
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Quote:


cel4145 said:


> Just use the CD player on your computer. No benefit from using a portable CD player instead.


 
  
 If I got a DAC, I'd also want to use it with my portable CD player that I sometimes use when I'm lying in bed.


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## nuraman00

Ok. The two speakers I will order for a comparison are:

 1) JBL 308's.

 + These cables

http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-CMP159-Stereo-Breakout-10-Feet/dp/B005HGM1D6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1462489663&sr=8-1&keywords=3.5mm%20to%20trs&tag=viglink20246-20

 Are the cables split far apart enough, so that if the speakers are 2 feet away from each other, they will be be able to go to each speaker, from the point of separation?

 2) Emotiva Airmotiv 6s

 I guess I'd use a 3.5mm cable to RCA to connect them.

 Cables like these:

http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-Audio-Cable-Splitter-1-Mini/dp/B00004Z5CP/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

 But, same question. Are they split at least 2 feet from each other?



 Since the Airmotiv 6s from Hi Fi Heaven only has a 14 day policy, I will only order them when I'll be home for 14 consecutive days. So, I will probably wait until mid-June.

 Also, I will just have to eat the 15% restocking fee if I return them.

 Maybe by that time they'll be available directly from Emotiva, with their 30 day return policy.

 It will also be a little difficult to have both sets of speakers side by side, so I can compare them, but I will do the best that I can.  Wideness may be an issue.



 Last thing. I just noticed neither of these sets has any kind of an output port. I was thinking that if I ever wanted to connect them to the home network, I could connect them to an Airport Express.

http://www.amazon.com/Apple-AirPort-Express-Station-MC414LL/dp/B008ALA2RC/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

 But, it looks like I can't?


 I guess trying to get good quality speakers means I have to sacrifice some features, unless someone has one alternative which I could use to compare, which is as good as these speakers, but could be connected to a network in the future.


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## nuraman00

nuraman00 said:


> Ok. The two speakers I will order for a comparison are:
> 
> 1) JBL 308's.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Can someone confirm whether those cables are the right ones for the Airmotiv 6s?  And do you think they will split 2-3 feet apart so I can connect them?
  
 If not, can someone suggest the right cables to use?
  
  
 Also, what does everyone think about the Audioengine 5+?  How does it compare to the two above?
  
 I see the frequency response isn't quite as good, but do you think it still compares well (sound)?
  
 If I have second thoughts about the potential 15% restocking fee for the Airmotiv 6s from Hi Fi Heaven, and if it's not available directly from them, maybe I will go with Audioengine as my 2nd comparison?  Would that be a comparable tradeoff, or are is the Airmotiv 6s probably better?


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## yay101

How has no one suggested a raspberry pi + hifiberry? Seriously?

Airplay, upnp, mpd server and web client, various streaming services, let's you use ANY speakers on earth.

Is a moving target platform, so when a new standard or service comes out you get support for free without swapping a single thing.

Just buy the speakers you want, wireless has already been taken care of for years and will never be outdated.


----------



## PurpleAngel

nuraman00 said:


> Can someone confirm whether those cables are the right ones for the Airmotiv 6s?  And do you think they will split 2-3 feet apart so I can connect them?
> If not, can someone suggest the right cables to use?
> Also, what does everyone think about the Audioengine 5+?  How does it compare to the two above?
> I see the frequency response isn't quite as good, but do you think it still compares well (sound)?
> If I have second thoughts about the potential 15% restocking fee for the Airmotiv 6s from Hi Fi Heaven, and if it's not available directly from them, maybe I will go with Audioengine as my 2nd comparison?  Would that be a comparable tradeoff, or are is the Airmotiv 6s probably better?


 
  
 The Hosa CMP-159 cables can be pulled apart, but that connector (1/4") will not work with the Airmotiv 6.
 Airmotiva uses XLR (balanced) or RCA (unbalanced) connection
http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-CMP159-Stereo-Breakout-10-Feet/dp/B005HGM1D6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1462489663&sr=8-1&keywords=3.5mm%20to%20trs&tag=viglink20246-20
  
 I'm guessing the Belkin 3.5mm to RCA cable might split for about the first 12" (maybe)
http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-Audio-Cable-Splitter-1-Mini/dp/B00004Z5CP/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
  
 The JBL and Airmotiva come with two separate amplifiers built into each unit.
 The 5+ comes with at most one amplifier driving each unit.
 Not even sure how discrete the amps are. as the 5+ uses one unit to drive the other unit.
  
 The Monoprice 5" studio monitors come with two amplifiers built into each unit 
 Audio quality wise the Monoprice 5" studio monitors ($170) should be easily at least equal to the Audioengine 5+ ($400)
 http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=605500
  
 For less money then the Airmotiv 6 ($500).
 You can get Monoprice 5" monitors ($170) and a Monoprice 10 "sub-woofer ($220).
  
 If you did get the Airmotiv 6 units, I really doubt you would have any reason to want to return them.


----------



## Satsugai

I'm extremely partial to the Corsair SP2500. http://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Gaming-High-Power-Speaker-CA-SP211NA/dp/B004H0MQYW
  
 If you're looking for room filling hifi sound with exceptional bass response, you will be quite pleased by these.


----------



## drews

> Also, what does everyone think about the Audioengine 5+?  How does it compare to the two above?
> 
> I see the frequency response isn't quite as good, but do you think it still compares well (sound)?


 
  
 I had the Audioengine 5, the Airmotiv 5 is much better.
  
 P.S. The Audioengine D1 DAC is fine (owned it twice), but I'd personally I'd give this similar, newer, cheaper alternative a try: http://www.amazon.com/Micca-OriGen-High-Resolution-Preamplifier/dp/B01BURJVOC


----------



## ysosirius

How about the Klipsch R15PM? Seeing reviews everywhere and it seems to be really good.. Not just for computer speakers but TV and all else too. Anyone tried it yet?


----------



## nuraman00

purpleangel said:


> The Hosa CMP-159 cables can be pulled apart, but that connector (1/4") will not work with the Airmotiv 6.
> Airmotiva uses XLR (balanced) or RCA (unbalanced) connection
> http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-CMP159-Stereo-Breakout-10-Feet/dp/B005HGM1D6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1462489663&sr=8-1&keywords=3.5mm%20to%20trs&tag=viglink20246-20
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for pointing this out.
  
 I didn't even consider looking this up before.
  
 But now I checked each product specs (JBL, Airmotiv 6s, Audioengine 5+).  The first two say they're bi-amplified, while the latter doesn't.


----------



## nuraman00

ysosirius said:


> How about the Klipsch R15PM? Seeing reviews everywhere and it seems to be really good.. Not just for computer speakers but TV and all else too. Anyone tried it yet?


 
  
 I looked at the R15PM last weekend.  It looked intriguing.


----------



## nuraman00

drews said:


> I had the Audioengine 5, the Airmotiv 5 is much better.
> 
> P.S. The Audioengine D1 DAC is fine (owned it twice), but I'd personally I'd give this similar, newer, cheaper alternative a try: http://www.amazon.com/Micca-OriGen-High-Resolution-Preamplifier/dp/B01BURJVOC


 
  
 Thank you.  I will keep this DAC in the back of my mind, if/when I get one.


----------



## djcarpentier

I don't know where you are, but i would look at your local craigslist (or equivalent) and find a used set of powered studio monitors. Budget king is the KRK Rokit range. find a set of rokit 8's for about $200 to $300. They have unbalanced input so can connect directly to a computer. You won't need a sub, and you won't do any better, i've tried. Very good sound for the price and lots of power.There are other similar options, but again it comes down to what is local. I can't stress this enough, buy USED.


----------



## nuraman00

purpleangel said:


> The Hosa CMP-159 cables can be pulled apart, but that connector (1/4") will not work with the Airmotiv 6.
> Airmotiva uses XLR (balanced) or RCA (unbalanced) connection
> http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-CMP159-Stereo-Breakout-10-Feet/dp/B005HGM1D6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1462489663&sr=8-1&keywords=3.5mm%20to%20trs&tag=viglink20246-20
> 
> ...


 
  
 What cables do you think I can use, with the Airmotiv 6s, that can be pulled 2-3 feet apart?


----------



## nuraman00

I emailed Emotiva and asked when the Airmotiv 6s would be available.
  
 Here's their response.
  
 I guess I'll wait a month and ask again.  Do you think their month timetable is close to being accurate?
  
 +++++++++++
  
 Thank you for your email. I do apologize for the delay. Current ETA is not available. It may be another month or so, but at this time we do not have a confirmation.
 Thank you and regards,


----------



## sygnus21

nuraman00 said:


> Do you think their month timetable is close to being accurate?
> 
> +++++++++++
> 
> ...


 
 I called Airmotive about a month ago inquiring about the 6s' and was at that time told a they would be released by the 25 of May. As we now see, this isn't true. So yeah, I don't believe they know when the stock would be replenished.
  
 Anyway I'm currently running a pair of the Audioengine A5+'s, with their S8 sub the setup sounds pretty good, though I think the A5+ could use a bit more umph in the treble and highs. (thus my interest in the Airmotive 6s). At any rate I'm pushing the A5+ with a Teac UD-503 DAC, the music player is JRiver Media Center21, and my files are encoded in uncompressed flac. 
  
 BTW I also had (still have) the Audioengine D1 DAC but for headphone use, I found it pretty lack luster. It did a nice job driving the A5+, and sounded pretty good, but there really isn't any comparison to the UD-503, especially as a headphone amp.  But for what it does at its price range it's ok, but I still feel the headphone section could be improved.
  
 My two cent.


----------



## nuraman00

sygnus21 said:


> I called Airmotive about a month ago inquiring about the 6s' and was at that time told a they would be released by the 25 of May. As we now see, this isn't true. So yeah, I don't believe they know when the stock would be replenished.
> 
> Anyway I'm currently running a pair of the Audioengine A5+'s, with their S8 sub the setup sounds pretty good, though I think the A5+ could use a bit more umph in the treble and highs. (thus my interest in the Airmotive 6s). At any rate I'm pushing the A5+ with a Teac UD-503 DAC, the music player is JRiver Media Center21, and my files are encoded in uncompressed flac.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for all of that info about different topics (your response from them about the 6s availability; your setup; Audioengine D1 DAC).
  
 I guess if multiple people are asking them about it, maybe it will push them to do it sooner?


----------



## nuraman00

nuraman00 said:


> I emailed Emotiva and asked when the Airmotiv 6s would be available.
> 
> Here's their response.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I emailed them again just to ask and make sure they weren't going to be discontinued.
  
 Their response:
  
 +++++++++++++
  
 We will be getting more, just no eta as of yet. They are not discontinued.
 I will put your name on the reserve list and email you when we receive a firm eta.
 Thank you and we do apologize for the delay.


----------



## nuraman00

purpleangel said:


> The JBL and Airmotiva come with two separate amplifiers built into each unit.
> The 5+ comes with at most one amplifier driving each unit.
> Not even sure how discrete the amps are. as the 5+ uses one unit to drive the other unit.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Some questions on bi amplification.
  
 Is it better only from an dependency / efficiency standpoint?  As in, each driver is more self sustainable, and not dependent on the other.  And, there is less power loss, or loss of another measure.
  
 Or, does having a discrete amplifier per driver, directly affect the sound in some way too?


----------



## onitafmw55

Hello,. are there any respectable stereo speakers for under 100 dollars for a desktop computer. No room for a subwoofer. Obviously a very limited budget and setup but if anyone has any ideas. Please share thanks.


----------



## cel4145

onitafmw55 said:


> Hello,. are there any respectable stereo speakers for under 100 dollars for a desktop computer. No room for a subwoofer. Obviously a very limited budget and setup but if anyone has any ideas. Please share thanks.




Probably best to start for your own thread. You are looking for something quite different from the OP, and I'm pretty sure he is not done with this thread yet.


----------



## onitafmw55

very sorry. will do. thanks


----------



## nuraman00

Another question.
  
 Not that I want to right now, but how do you connect these JBL / Airmotiv / Audioengine A5+ / Monoprice type reference monitors to a subwoofer?
  
 I guess the A5+ has output ports, so I can see that.
  
 But the others, I can't figure out what type of connection I'd make, or from what to what.


----------



## nuraman00

yay101 said:


> *How has no one suggested a raspberry pi + hifiberry? Seriously?*
> 
> Airplay, upnp, mpd server and web client, various streaming services, let's you use ANY speakers on earth.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm not looking into this right now, but can you explain how to connect the raspberry pi + hifiberry to the home network, and how the speakers would be connected to it?
  
 I know what a raspberry pi is, I read up on it a few months ago.  But I'm also still learning what it can do.


----------



## yay101

nuraman00 said:


> I'm not looking into this right now, but can you explain how to connect the raspberry pi + hifiberry to the home network, and how the speakers would be connected to it?
> 
> I know what a raspberry pi is, I read up on it a few months ago.  But I'm also still learning what it can do.




Sure thing. Its just a tiny computer running a very striped down version of Linux so it connects in exactly the same way you connect any other computer eg via network cable or WiFi. Usually people just use a network cable to complete the initial setup of adding WiFi credentials, choosing which services to use or network shares to mount then they hide it away and never think about it again.

You can use any number of apps and services to control it, and when a new service comes out or gets support you just hit update, wait for it to restart and continue on your merry way.

Hifiberry is one example of a add-on board exclusively for music playback, there is a DAC version outputting analog, a DDC version for outputting reclocked digital to external PC DACs or you can always just forgo the add-on board and use USB with any DAC that supports class 2 USB audio (almost all of them). Using a hifiberry add-on board is the "best" way to go simply because the pi was never intended as an audiophile source from a hardware perspective, things like the hifiberry change that.


----------



## nuraman00

nuraman00 said:


> I emailed them again just to ask and make sure they weren't going to be discontinued.
> 
> Their response:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Update, a new response today:
  
 +++++++++++++
  
 The ASM6s will be back in stock the first week of August. If you would like to purchase a pair, please let us know and we will be happy to take and order and hold until they arrive.
 Thank you,


----------



## nuraman00

purpleangel said:


> The Hosa CMP-159 cables can be pulled apart, but that connector (1/4") will not work with the Airmotiv 6.
> Airmotiva uses XLR (balanced) or RCA (unbalanced) connection
> http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-CMP159-Stereo-Breakout-10-Feet/dp/B005HGM1D6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1462489663&sr=8-1&keywords=3.5mm%20to%20trs&tag=viglink20246-20
> 
> ...


 
  


nuraman00 said:


> Some questions on bi amplification.
> 
> Is it better only from an dependency / efficiency standpoint?  As in, each driver is more self sustainable, and not dependent on the other.  And, there is less power loss, or loss of another measure.
> 
> Or, does having a discrete amplifier per driver, directly affect the sound in some way too?


 
  
  
 Any thoughts on these questions?  Thanks.


----------



## sygnus21

nuraman00 said:


> Update, a new response today:
> 
> +++++++++++++
> 
> ...


 

 I would NOT pay for a pre-order here because of the shifting restock dates. You could wind up having your money held up for who knows how long.  But... the choice is yours.
  
 And for me I might wait until after they get them in and into the market just to see if there are any quality issues before final purchase.
  
 My two cents.


----------



## Dillan

Best and most musical in that price range was the m audio monitors. I recommend those or the JBLs.


----------



## sygnus21

Which JBLs???
  
 I think I've looked at the ones you're talking about, but if I remember they were too big for my needs, as I'm also looking at space considerations.  To be honest, the Airmotive 6's are too big but I'm curious about them.
  
 For me, something in the size of Audioengine's A5+ would be great. The A5+'s are great loud, but at low levels I want a bit more cleanliness and openness which I feel they lack.


----------



## nuraman00

dillan said:


> Best and most musical in that price range was the m audio monitors. I recommend those or the JBLs.


 
  
 The M-Audio AV32 / AV32.1?
  
 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=1193463&gclid=CjwKEAjwka67BRCk6a7_h_7Pui8SJABcMkWRhZtgM3cJNPS7Y09wdOyCc-06yo95oQG_IjR3Dw8zdhoCWLLw_wcB&is=REG&ap=y&m=Y&c3api=1876%2C92051677682%2C&Q=&A=details


----------



## nuraman00

sygnus21 said:


> *I would NOT pay for a pre-order here because of the shifting restock dates. You could wind up having your money held up for who knows how long.  But... the choice is yours.*
> 
> And for me I might wait until after they get them in and into the market just to see if there are any quality issues before final purchase.
> 
> My two cents.


 
  
 I agree I wouldn't pay for a pre-order.
  
 But they've been in the market before.  I was thinking I could just "hold" them until they're in stock and ready to be shipped, then order them.


----------



## Dillan

nuraman00 said:


> The M-Audio AV32 / AV32.1?
> 
> http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=1193463&gclid=CjwKEAjwka67BRCk6a7_h_7Pui8SJABcMkWRhZtgM3cJNPS7Y09wdOyCc-06yo95oQG_IjR3Dw8zdhoCWLLw_wcB&is=REG&ap=y&m=Y&c3api=1876%2C92051677682%2C&Q=&A=details


 

 Those are pretty good for the price. The bx5 and bx8 are incredible though. I sampled probably 10 different monitors and desktop speakers and those were the loudest, had the most punch and the crispiest highs. I prefer a V shaped sound sometimes though.. so you might not like as much.


----------



## Jonathan40

I tried the Bose Companion series at Best Buy a few months ago, and they sounded awesome. Just wish they weren't so pricey..I usually use whatever I find and replace the 1/8" stereo jack with a new one. They are tricky to solder, though - those wires are tiney!


----------



## duffy1234

you guys should check this forum http://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/2233954-2-0-bookshelf-compared-wharfedale-philharmonic-chane-musichall-elac-energy-kef.html , one of the most recommended computer speakers are aa philharmonics for under 300$, but not so well known brand


----------



## canali

purpleangel said:


> The Hosa CMP-159 cables can be pulled apart, but that connector (1/4") will not work with the Airmotiv 6.
> Airmotiva uses XLR (balanced) or RCA (unbalanced) connection
> http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-CMP159-Stereo-Breakout-10-Feet/dp/B005HGM1D6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1462489663&sr=8-1&keywords=3.5mm%20to%20trs&tag=viglink20246-20
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 i've subbed to this thread.....good suggestions here thanks,
  
 I am also researching good sound smallish self powered speakers for my laptop
 -under US$400 (even lower if better)
 -smallish footprint preferred but still very musical, balanced, with enough bass slam to 
 not require a sub (will only play at lower to mod levels) as my kitchen table/'desktop' is not large and robust for heavy monsters.
  
 prefer wired for sound...not into bluetooth
 ...for my tidal hifi
  
 btw, *keg (canada) has promos on the egg and x300a  right now*.  https://www.kefstore.ca/index.php/specials/kef-specials-ca.html
  
 a colleague can get me a pair of kef x300a for US$383
 ....and the kef egg for US$300.
  
 however, aside from b&w mm1 and the keg egg or x300a,
 those *monoprice, swans and m-audio* products have me interested too.


----------



## canali

also got this from sweetwater...feel free to chip in:
  
_Sub $500 the *LSR 305's* are excellent. If you can swing the extra $100 I would look at the *Focal Alpha 50's.* _
 
_Both excellent speakers but the Focal's definitely win out of the two. _
 
_Here are the links:_
 
_LSR305 --> http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LSR305_
 
_Alpha50 --> http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Alpha50_
 
and when i asked about something *smaller *(my kitchen table/'desk' is not large)
and yet has good sound:
 
 _If you went even smaller I would go this direction --> http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/8010A_
 
_You will lose bass response with a smaller woofer, however these things still kick pretty well._


  
 also reading good things on* Emotiva airmotiv 4S *as offering fab bang for buck


----------



## nuraman00

Thanks for your research, @canali.  I wonder why I stopped getting notifications, I didn't get notifications for the last few responses.


----------



## nuraman00

nuraman00 said:


> Update, a new response today:
> 
> +++++++++++++
> 
> ...


 
  
 Update, Airmotiv's site now lets you order.  It says the ship date is "Ships August 2016.".
  
 https://emotiva.com/products/powered-monitors/speakers/airmotiv-6s
  
 I will still wait until there's a definite ship date.


----------



## iamxLn

Get Audioengine and add your own sub, they have a sub out. That way you're not getting a bad computer sub.


----------



## nuraman00

purpleangel said:


> The Hosa CMP-159 cables can be pulled apart, but that connector (1/4") will not work with the Airmotiv 6.
> Airmotiva uses XLR (balanced) or RCA (unbalanced) connection
> http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-CMP159-Stereo-Breakout-10-Feet/dp/B005HGM1D6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1462489663&sr=8-1&keywords=3.5mm%20to%20trs&tag=viglink20246-20
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Quote:


nuraman00 said:


> Some questions on bi amplification.
> 
> Is it better only from an dependency / efficiency standpoint?  As in, each driver is more self sustainable, and not dependent on the other.  And, there is less power loss, or loss of another measure.
> 
> Or, does having a discrete amplifier per driver, directly affect the sound in some way too?


 
  
  
 Bump?  @PurpleAngel, etc.?  Any comments on bi amplification?


----------



## canali

nuraman00 said:


> Thanks for your research, @canali.  I wonder why I stopped getting notifications, I didn't get notifications for the last few responses.


 
  
 probably check your subscriptions settings for email alerts


----------



## canali

nuraman00 said:


> Update, Airmotiv's site now lets you order.  It says the ship date is "Ships August 2016.".
> 
> https://emotiva.com/products/powered-monitors/speakers/airmotiv-6s
> 
> I will still wait until there's a definite ship date.


 
 anyone have these?
 the airmotive 4S were a fav or darko in his reviews
 http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2016/06/10-bargains-for-the-wannabe-audiophile/
10 stone cold bargains for the wannabe audiophile  
 however the larger 5S looking more interesting just with a bigger woofer


----------



## nuraman00

canali said:


> anyone have these?
> the airmotive 4S were a fav or darko in his reviews
> http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2016/06/10-bargains-for-the-wannabe-audiophile/
> 10 stone cold bargains for the wannabe audiophile
> however the larger 5S looking more interesting just with a bigger woofer


 
  
 That's a nice article, because it compares bargains across different devices.  I kind of liked that perspective.  Instead of only looking at only speakers, or only DACs, etc., I could sort of imagine a nice bargain setup, using a few different recommendations from that article.
  
 As for the Airmotiv, they were recommended or suggested a few times in this thread.  I don't know if each of these people personally have them, but they still could recommended them.
  
 Here's their posts, resposted:
  
  
  
  


cel4145 said:


> Well, some of the computer multimedia speaker subwoofers are more toys than subs. What you want to look at is the rated frequency response. And often with the computer multimedia speakers (probably not the Swans, though), they will be overly optimistic.
> 
> *Whereas speakers like these will have excellent bass response down to about 50hz: https://emotiva.com/products/powered-monitors/speakers/airmotiv-5s.*
> 
> JBL LSR 305s are good down into the 40hz range: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LSR305. They are generally considered some of the best speakers you can buy for <$500. Pair them with a Focusrite USB audio interface DAC, and you'd have a great setup: http://www.amazon.com/Focusrite-2i2-USB-Recording-Interface/dp/B005OZE9SA


 
  
  


drews said:


> *FWIW, I'd be willing to pay much more for the Airmotiv's than the B&W MM-1 (fortunately they're actually cheaper!).*


 
  
  


drews said:


> *I had the Audioengine 5, the Airmotiv 5 is much better.*
> 
> P.S. The Audioengine D1 DAC is fine (owned it twice), but I'd personally I'd give this similar, newer, cheaper alternative a try: http://www.amazon.com/Micca-OriGen-High-Resolution-Preamplifier/dp/B01BURJVOC


----------



## nuraman00

canali said:


> probably check your subscriptions settings for email alerts


 
  
 Yeah, it says I'm subscribed.
  
 Funny thing is, I didn't change my subscription options, but I started getting alerts again.
  
 Ok, I think I figured out what it might have been.  There was an option for sending a notification the first time a thread is updated, but no more until I visit the site.
  
 Or there was one for sending a notification every time.
  
 I had the former selected.  So when someone posted a reply on 07/09, I must have forgotten about it and not visited the site after that.
  
 So then I didn't get any subsequent replies.
  
 I changed it now so I get a reply every time.  That way, if I don't have time to view the site right away, but someone else updates the thread later on, I'll get another notification later on, and it will keep me aware of where my progress is in keeping up with a thread.


----------



## canali

thanks nuraman00...those jbl 305s certainly now have my attention, too....seems fab bang for buck per reviews
 http://www.cnet.com/news/jbl-lsr305-resetting-sound-expectations-for-desktop-speakers/\
 despite being 2013 it is interesting esp when he compares to adam f5 speakers...comments also interesting...
 some also suggesting the *yamaha msp5 *as a great alternative
  
 i guess an iFi micro idsd, dragonfly red or chord mojo could act as a good dac?


----------



## theveterans

Well, I prefer neutral sound with incredible detail retrieval both in headphones and speakers so I use Yamaha HS7. I use Schiit Asgard 2 as a preamp to easily control the volume level of those speakers.


----------



## nuraman00

canali said:


> thanks nuraman00...those jbl 305s certainly now have my attention, too....seems fab bang for buck per reviews
> 
> i guess an iFi micro idsd, dragonfly red or chord mojo could act as a good dac?


 
  
 As soon as the Airmotiv 6s is in stock, I will purchase both that and the JBL 308 (wanted the bigger one because I have more space in my setup, although it might be difficult to put both sets of speakers side by side), and compare both. 
  
 Both you and I might actually be comparing similar speakers at about the same time, haha.  Just possibly a slight difference in model here or there.
  
 I don't have a DAC yet, but have keeping note of recommendations in the back of my mind.  I'm sure I'll get one at some point.
  
 When I get one though, I want one with both TOSLINK, and USB.  TOSLINK, so I can connect it to my personal CD Player.  USB so I can connect it from my PC to the speakers.
  
 Here's the recommendations that have been made so far:
  
  
 1)  Focusrite Scarlett 2i2
  
 https://www.amazon.com/Focusrite-2i2-USB-Recording-Interface/dp/B005OZE9SA?ie=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0
  
 (Doesn't have TOSLINK).
  
 2)  Audioengine D1
  
 https://www.amazon.com/Audioengine-D1-24-bit-Digital-to-Analog-Converter/dp/B006IPH5H2/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
  
 3)  Micca OriGen+
  
 https://www.amazon.com/Micca-OriGen-High-Resolution-Preamplifier/dp/B01BURJVOC?ie=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0
  
 4)  Schitt Fulla
  
 http://*schiit*.com/products/fulla
  
 (Doesn't have TOSLINK).


----------



## nuraman00

canali said:


> however, aside from b&w mm1 and the keg egg or x300a,
> those *monoprice, swans and m-audio* products have me interested too.


 
  
 Just curious, what Swans did you come across that interested you?
  
 To me, initially, it was this:
  
 http://www.swanspeaker.com/product/htm/view.asp?id=443
  
 I'm not going to switch as to which ones I want to compare at this point (Airmotiv 6s, JBL 308).  I've spent too much time already debating.  But if something happened and I didn't like either, I would then try that Swan one, it had me very curious.
  
  
 When I compared headphones in 2014, I compared 3 different ones at the same time.  But headphones are easier, as one can simply plug and unplug.
  
 Speakers are more difficult both for the space required to compare multiple ones, and also plugging and unplugging more connections between each unit.  Since I can't plug in both at the same time, because they both need the 3.5 mm output on my sound card.


----------



## nuraman00

theveterans said:


> Well, I prefer neutral sound with incredible detail retrieval both in headphones and speakers so I use *Yamaha HS7*. I use Schiit Asgard 2 as a preamp to easily control the volume level of those speakers.


 
  
 Thanks.  That also looks good.


----------



## canali

thing with the jbl 305s, however, (see review below), is that my desk is smallish and against the wall,
 so am reading 1/rear ported speakers are not necessarily the best for these types of setups.
 also 2/ they're best placed at least 4' apart from one another....guess the research continues.
 still on my  list, however... they do sound like fab speakers.
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOySstGCMRg&ab_channel=ZReviews
  
 focal cms 40 now on list as well as (emotiva) airmotive s4 or s5
 ...can get a pair of the focal 40s used for US$533....but that is pushing my budget.


----------



## nuraman00

canali said:


> thing with the jbl 305s, however, (see review below), is that my desk is smallish and against the wall,
> so am reading 1/rear ported speakers are not necessarily the best for these types of setups.
> also 2/ they're best placed at least 4' apart from one another....guess the research continues.
> still on my  list, however... they do sound like fab speakers.
> ...


 
  
 How is the design of the focal cms 40 different from the jbl 305s, or airmotivs?  
  
 What exactly is a "rear ported speaker"?  Are all of these (Focal, JBL, Emotiva) rear ported?


----------



## Dillan

I think rear ported speaker means it has a hole in the back for air pressure to be released.


----------



## nuraman00

dillan said:


> I think rear ported speaker means it has a hole in the back for air pressure to be released.


 
  
 Thanks!


----------



## theveterans

It's good for slight bass boost if placed near a wall.


----------



## melen1717

I see that your budget is $500 and at that price range there are quite a few excellent systems available. What if you can save lets say $450 and get a 2.1 system for less than $50 and still have a decent system? Have you heard of the Cyber Acoustic CA-3602 (62 watts) desktop system??? I'm a 35 year experienced audiophile and I guarantee you that you will be delightfully surprised as I was. Why spend $500 when you can experience decent sound quality for less than $50?  I've got a audiophile quality stereo set-up with (just to mention a few) very good electronics and speakers... amps like NAD, Onkyo, Rotel and Adcom and speakers like ELAC, Triangle Espirit EZ Titus, B&W and Monitor Audio. Of course not trying to compare a $50 set-up to any of the mentioned audiophile quality ($$$) I have as my main listening set-up BUT I can tell you this, sound and build quality is very very good. Lets just say that the Cyber Acoustic is the "Poor Mans Audiophile Dream Come True"...  Just click on the picture and see the review. You can get these at Amazon or Newegg. Enjoy...


----------



## Dillan

Those seem pretty great. I have liked CA stuff before as a cheap, easy way to enjoy music.


----------



## melen1717

dillan said:


> Those seem pretty great. I have liked CA stuff before as a cheap, easy way to enjoy music.


 

 Yeah.... cheap. But that doesn't mean that the Cyber Acoustic sound is any ware near cheap. I've got these speakers and they sound better than some systems costing 3 & 4 times their price. I don't now if you have ever experienced listening to the CA's BUT IMHO, they are actually very good and for less than $50 ($39.95) they kick ass. I've been a dedicate audiophile for over 35 yrs and, believe me,  CA 2.1 system is difficult to bet unless you are willing to spend over $150 for maybe a bit more sound quality. I have been a believer in the "Poor mans audiophile dream" that with very little you can get a lot. If you want REAL AUDIOPHILE QUALITY SOUND then jump in the wagon and be prepared to spend big money. Believe me, I know first hand. Just read my previous comment. The Cyber Acoustic CA-3602 happens to be the system that fits the bill...... If you haven't auditioned them please do and you just might be convinced and agree with me.


----------



## Dillan

I was agreeing with you


----------



## melen1717

dillan said:


> I was agreeing with you


 

 Okay..... Have you ever CA-3602 or listened to them?


----------



## Dillan

No


----------



## Dillan

If I were to get desktop speakers, i'd get very high end monitors.. Otherwise I use headphones exclusively. I'm sure those are good though. I was saying I think CA is great value for the dollar.


----------



## melen1717

dillan said:


> If I were to get desktop speakers, I'd get very high end monitors.. Otherwise I use headphones exclusively. I'm sure those are good though. I was saying I think CA is great value for the dollar.


 

 Yes... they are surprisingly very good for the money. The only negative, if you can call it that, is that the volume won't be "screamingly high" but for desktop speakers they will fit the job.  If you are looking for "high end" desktop speakers I would suggest Audioengine A-5 powered speakers (50 watts per channel) with a 5 inch Kevlar woofers & 3/4 inch silk dome tweeters. They are excellent and the bass is room filling. If you have an amp they have passive speakers as well... You can audition for 30-days, free ground shipping, and no sales tax. I have a friend that has these and they sound very very good......


----------



## nuraman00

Question:

I bought those Hosa cables in June.
  
 https://www.amazon.com/Hosa-CMP-159-Stereo-Breakout-Cable/dp/B005HGM1D6/ref=sr_1_1?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1469751662&sr=1-1&keywords=hosa+159

Haven't ordered the JBL's yet, as I'm waiting for the Airmotiv 6s to also be in stock, so I can order both at the same time.

I saw this package for the JBL's which includes both cables and stands:

 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JZU8ZOO/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=5ZOH1613TYZ9&coliid=I1TP0IKV0086PF

Those cables in the package aren't the ones I would have needed though, right? Because they don't have a 3.5mm connector on one end, like the Hosa?


----------



## nuraman00

theveterans said:


> Well, I prefer neutral sound with incredible detail retrieval both in headphones and speakers so I use *Yamaha HS7.* I use Schiit Asgard 2 as a preamp to easily control the volume level of those speakers.


 
  
 I've been looking into those the past few days.  They seem comparable to the JBL 308, and the Airmotiv 6s.
  
 I just wish they weren't $100 more per monitor, resulting in a $200 increase.  I thought I could find some deal for a pair, somewhere online, but no such luck.


----------



## theveterans

nuraman00 said:


> I've been looking into those the past few days.  They seem comparable to the JBL 308, and the Airmotiv 6s.
> 
> I just wish they weren't $100 more per monitor, resulting in a $200 increase.  I thought I could find some deal for a pair, somewhere online, but no such luck.


 
  
 You can't go wrong with all of your options IMO. I chose the Yamaha since it was the closest sounding one to my AKG K712 as reference compared to the other two (M-audio BX8 and KRK rokit 8)I auditioned at a music store. Those 2 monitors aren't available for audition in my area.


----------



## iamxLn

Do any other speakers here have the subwoofer output other than the audio engines?


----------



## Pedro Dixon

Genelec, Genelec, and Genelec. Nothing, IME, comes close. Furthermore, there is a budget for everyone. They are a near-field monitor, so ideal for what you want. they also look the business. 
  
 I wouldn't look further.


----------



## Pedro Dixon

.... and yes they have a few subwoofers, but they don't come cheap. although after hearing one, it didn't take me long to realise why.


----------



## canali

iamxln said:


> Do any other speakers here have the subwoofer output other than the audio engines?





They interest me but I can't understand your suggestion they have a 'budget for everyone'..their ''basic'' 8010 or genelec one series all start north of $400...or am I missing something new?

And when I asked a rep for smallish without a sub needed ( I still want good low end without a subwoofer) it was suggested to go to genelec 2 or 8020 series ...even 8030...then the price kicks way up there


----------



## Pedro Dixon

canali said:


> They interest me but I can't understand your suggestion they have a 'budget for everyone'..their ''basic'' 8010 or genelec one series all start north of $400...or am I missing something new?
> 
> And when I asked a rep for smallish without a sub needed ( I still want good low end without a subwoofer) it was suggested to go to genelec 2 or 8020 series ...even 8030...then the price kicks way up there


 
 6010, which i have in the bedroom, need a sub IMO, depending how much you want out of them in the lower regions. Soon as you reach 8040 levels, a sub doesn't become so essential. Don't get me wrong, I believe the 6010 will shock you, but after some time, you'll be wanting more in the lower regions. There are often plenty on eBay, but new, price wise, I don't think you can buy cheaper than from these guys who buy in bulk, thefore others simply cannot complete with their prices. 
  
https://www.thomann.de/gb/genelec_active_nearfield_monitors.html
  
 I have the 6010, 8040 and 8240 (i think, with a digital input and room correction). Room correction isn't necessary at a desk, in my opinion. Depends how much you are wiling to spend but my experience is they have a transparent sound, and the more you spend, you simply get more of what you were getting before if it that make sense. No need to spend big money on them at all, but I appreciate, soon as you factor in a sub. things become a but more costly. If you have a budget in mind, I may be able to guide you a little more specifically. Also, how loud do you listen? I must admit, the 8040 with their bottom of the line sub is mighty impressive. But, as are the 6010 at their price point. 
  
 This would be the direction I would be going in like myself, but, as ever, your money, my view.


----------



## Pedro Dixon

See the link, and you will see the incremental steps and what comes with..... Hopefully this answers your first question.


----------



## canali

pedro dixon said:


> 6010, which i have in the bedroom, need a sub IMO, depending how much you want out of them in the lower regions. Soon as you reach 8040 levels, a sub doesn't become so essential. Don't get me wrong, I believe the 6010 will shock you, but after some time, you'll be wanting more in the lower regions. There are often plenty on eBay, but new, price wise, I don't think you can buy cheaper than from these guys who buy in bulk, thefore others simply cannot complete with their prices.
> 
> https://www.thomann.de/gb/genelec_active_nearfield_monitors.html
> 
> ...




Thanks...would not be playing at loud volumes...for a smallish kitchen table/desk...have you heard the emotive 4s or Yamaha ym7s?

That link...imo genelec should cut down on the choices offered... they're as bad as going on audio technica site and seeing way too many iems.


----------



## cel4145

The Emotiva Airmotiv 4s are very good for their size. Excellent smaller monitors.


----------



## theveterans

IMO, studio monitors have a more directional flow of sound compared to consumer speakers so unless you're using it near-field, the studio monitor won't sound right (most likely bass boosted with muted treble).


----------



## canali

theveterans said:


> IMO, studio monitors have a more directional flow of sound compared to consumer speakers so unless you're using it near-field, the studio monitor won't sound right (most likely bass boosted with muted treble).


 
 thanks for this...i've also read the same thing....guess each category has their own unique pros and cons.
  
 might just wait for the new* oppo sonica  *wls speaker, then....getting good reviews.
 while I know it's not a 'computer speaker' per se, I am just looking at additional good options for one's desktop, too
 others might be equally interested, to keep their options open.
*https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=oppo%20sonica*
 can't right now pair this oppo speakers as left/right 2 channel...only supports playfi...but we'll see..firmware upgradeable...will have a 
 room calibration app similar to what makes the sonos so appealing.
_trusted reviews_ should also be doing a more indepth review shortly...but for
 now, per bang for buck, it looks promising.
  
 also see the comments in the darko review in the link..someone also suggested the* peachtree audio2*
 link to product and reviews below, too
*https://www.google.ca/search?q=Peachtree+Deepblue2&oq=pea&aqs=chrome.1.69i59l2j69i65l3j69i57.3631j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8*


----------



## cel4145

theveterans said:


> IMO, *studio monitors have a more directional flow of sound *compared to consumer speakers so unless you're using it near-field, the studio monitor won't sound right (most likely bass boosted with muted treble).




 Unless we are talking about some models of Bose or Mirage speakers, and of course bipoles/dipoles, home audio and studio speakers are typically all examples of direct radiating speakers. So what is this "directional flow" you speak of? Not to sound flippant, but do some go backwards? I just don't understand what this is. I've also seen people use studio monitors for HT setups. I've seen people use home audio passive speakers in desktop setups (doing it right now). Both can work very well.


----------



## theveterans

> Unless we are talking about some models of Bose or Mirage speakers, and of course bipoles/dipoles, home audio and studio speakers are typically all examples of direct radiating speakers. So what is this "directional flow" you speak of? Not to sound flippant, but do some go backwards? I just don't understand what this is. I've also seen people use studio monitors for HT setups. I've seen people use home audio passive speakers in desktop setups (doing it right now). Both can work very well.


 
  
 IMO, I find that my Yamaha HS7 sounding bass heavy with muted highs off of the sweet spot while my Bose sound bar at the living room doesn't change that much in timbre if I sit from side or from the sweetspot. IMO, consumer speakers typically advertise off-center drivers to give a consistent sound at any listener's position.


----------



## cel4145

theveterans said:


> IMO, I find that my Yamaha HS7 sounding bass heavy with muted highs off of the sweet spot while my Bose sound bar at the living room doesn't change that much in timbre if I sit from side or from the sweetspot.* IMO, consumer speakers typically advertise off-center drivers to give a consistent sound at any listener's position.*




NO

A sound bar is not the same as a typical home audio direct radiating speaker using a similar design to your Yamaha. You are comparing apples to pizza. 

Direct radiating 2 way speakers like your Yamahas or my Sierra 1s all have some ever increasing fall off in frequency response as you move off axis. Some more than others. But they all do. Just have to look at measurements instead of making theories up.


----------



## Wilderness

For $500, you could get the PSB 2.1 system. If you get the two powered speakers and matching sub as a package, you save $50 and so the total is $500. I would not recommend getting the two PSB speakers without a sub. The sub does more than just add bass. It fills out the sound. Without the sub, the two speakers strain and don't sound very good. With the sub, magic happens. These speakers have received very good reviews on audiophile websites. I was pleased with the package, but I eventually bought a bigger, better sub.


----------



## 250lbs

You should also check out the Vanatoo Transparant One. Get's good reviews https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpU2nmNCcrQ (funny guy btw) Dac inside and powered. Adam audio speakers (also nearfield prof. monitors) should work wonders too ,front ported should help to tame the base in certain situations but these are more expensive and look in professional series very utilitarian looking  
  
 The JBl LSR305 is very good for the price....
  
 All these monitors are professional monitors en should be quite revealing (bad recordings will sound bad)and be good for a nearfield environment.


----------



## nuraman00

250lbs said:


> You should also check out the Vanatoo Transparant One. Get's good reviews https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpU2nmNCcrQ (funny guy btw) Dac inside and powered. Adam audio speakers (also nearfield prof. monitors) should work wonders too ,front ported should help to tame the base in certain situations but these are more expensive and look in professional series very utilitarian looking
> 
> The JBl LSR305 is very good for the price....
> 
> All these monitors are professional monitors en should be quite revealing (bad recordings will sound bad)and be good for a nearfield environment.


 
  
 Thanks.  The connectivity options seem cool.
  
 I also saw it comes with an Avantree Bluetooth adapter.  But that's something that can be purchased later too, if I want.  Bluetooth is also compressed audio, so there's that to consider. 
  
 How does that Bluetooth adapter connect?  Via USB, or 3.5mm?
  
 Either way, that means I can't connect via USB from my PC, if I also want to connect with the adapter via USB, right?  Or the same situation applies if it connects via 3.5mm.
  
 Does it come with any cables?
  
 What connection option would you suggest via PC?  USB?  3.5mm?  TOSLINK? 
  
 I'm also wondering about one other specification.
  
 The LSR308 lists its power as 56 watts for the LF Driver, and 56 watts for the HF Driver.
  
 The Airmotiv 6s has 110 RMS for the LF amplifier, 100 RMS for the HF amplifier.
  
 The Vanatoo One has 60 watts RMS per channel.
  
 How are any of these 3 comparable?
  
  
 Also, why do the front of the black ones have a grill in front of the tweeter, but the cherry wood ones don't?
  
 Black:
  
 http://www.vanatoo.com/store/speakers/transparent-one-black#.V61gO6Lkokc
  
 Cherry Wood:
  
 http://www.vanatoo.com/store/speakers/transparent-one-cherry#.V61gPqLkokc


----------



## 250lbs

You can use either toslink, usb or 3.5 mm, the best option is hard to tell in your situation. what i can say is that toslink will probably go up to 24bit/96khz and not up to 24/192khz. When using a speaker like the vanatoo is best to keep the signal as long as possible in the digital realm. Meaning use usb or toslink to hook them up to your computer (no dac neccessary) and don't do the a/d translation twice. 

With most prof powered monitors you should use an seperate dac to hook them up on usb port, they usually don't come with a dac inside.

The bluetooth adapter on the vanatoo is hooked up to the power out on the speaker(this is kind of unique to have a power socket on a speaker) and from there is is connected to the analog 3,5 mm in. http://www.vanatoo.com/ecom_img/original-4-13-t1c-bt3.jpg 

I don't own the Vanatoo though, i am in the process of buying some speakers as well, so i'm doing some research at the moment. It's too bad i can't hear them side by side with some other speakers. As far as i am aware there is no difference in the black Vanatoo's vs the cherry ones. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9y31S6OnSw i thk the encasing of the tweeter might have an slightly different colour on the cherry ones but i thk this is cosmetic only. Where looks is concerned i like a white Yamaha's HS-7 a little more(although they are bigger 6,5 inch woofer) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LRrYLiGYWQ or even of you wan't somethg very small Ruark MR1 : http://www.ruarkaudio.com/products/mr1-gallery

edit: looking at the spec sheat it says that 24/192khz is not supported anyway on the Vanatoo, also no dsd. If this is an issue for you depends if you will use this kind of high res music. An seperate dac might be a solution for that... I

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=117222.0
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2013/07/vanatoo-transparent-one-powered-loudspeaker-review/

I wouldn't look into the amplifier watt's specs to much, all these speakers i mentioned will go loud enough in a small room, usually the sensibility of the speaker is more important for that.


----------



## nuraman00

250lbs said:


> I don't own the Vanatoo though, i am in the process of buying some speakers as well, so i'm doing some research at the moment. It's too bad i can't hear them side by side with some other speakers.* As far as i am aware there is no difference in the black Vanatoo's vs the cherry ones*. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9y31S6OnSw i thk the encasing of the tweeter might have an slightly different colour on the cherry ones but i thk this is cosmetic only. Where looks is concerned i like a white Yamaha's HS-7 a little more(although they are bigger 6,5 inch woofer) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LRrYLiGYWQ or even of you wan't somethg very small Ruark MR1 : http://www.ruarkaudio.com/products/mr1-gallery


 
  
  


nuraman00 said:


> Also, why do the front of the black ones have a grill in front of the tweeter, but the cherry wood ones don't?
> 
> Black:
> 
> ...


 
  
 I was in the process of making a response of what confused me about the looks, and then finally your video helped clear it up.  Ok, agree, there is no difference.


----------



## nuraman00

250lbs said:


> You can use either toslink, usb or 3.5 mm, the best option is hard to tell in your situation. what i can say is that toslink will probably go up to 24bit/96khz and not up to 24/192khz. When using a speaker like the vanatoo is best to keep the signal as long as possible in the digital realm. Meaning use usb or toslink to hook them up to your computer (no dac neccessary) and don't do the a/d translation twice.
> 
> With most prof powered monitors you should use an seperate dac to hook them up on usb port, they usually don't come with a dac inside.
> 
> ...


 
  
 What's dsd?
  
 I mostly listen to CDs, although I have some FLACs too.  Even then, the ones I checked aren't 24/192khz.  So I don't think this is an issue.
  
 Do you know if the Vanatoo comes with any cables?
  
 Why can't I find the same Avantree Bluetooth adapter that's included with the Vanatoo, on Avantree's website?
  
 http://www.avantree.com/category-bluetooth-speaker-adapter-21
  
 Which of those models most closely resembles it?
  
  
 How would you compare the JBL308, Airmotiv 6s, and the Vanatoo Transparent One, based on your research, or the research in this thread?  Any noticeable differences, or pros/cons of one over the other?
  
 Besides the connectivity options the Vanatoo has.
  
 I guess the same sort of Avantree Bluetooth adapters can be added to those other speakers too, right?  Wait, I don't think the JBL 308 has a 3.5mm input, so it wouldn't be possible, right?  But it would be possible with the Airmotiv, through the RCA input?
  
 This is just very small consideration for me.  Just wanted to be aware of it.


----------



## nuraman00

250lbs said:


> You can use either toslink, usb or 3.5 mm, the best option is hard to tell in your situation. what i can say is that toslink will probably go up to 24bit/96khz and not up to 24/192khz. When using a speaker like the vanatoo is best to keep the signal as long as possible in the digital realm. Meaning use usb or toslink to hook them up to your computer (no dac neccessary) and don't do the a/d translation twice.
> 
> With most prof powered monitors you should use an seperate dac to hook them up on usb port, they usually don't come with a dac inside.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Bump, @250lbs?  Thoughts on post #130?


----------



## nuraman00

I also agree that in terms of looks, the Yamaha looks the best.  I'd be comparing the HS8 though, and not the HS7, to keep it consistent with the other models I'm examining.  It's just unfortunate that the HS8 is $100 more per speaker, than the Airmotiv 6s, JBL 308.
  
 I guess the Vanatoo Transparent One is 6.5" wide.
  
 What's the difference between the B-stock and non B-stock?
  
 http://www.vanatoo.com/store/speakers#.V7PWjaLkoke


----------



## canali

Recent review of new oppo sonica, soon to be released
http://hometheaterreview.com/oppo-digital-sonica-wi-fi-speaker-reviewed/?page=2

End of article talks about some of the competition and how it stacks up.
wish they'd compared it to bluesound but they didn't


----------



## nuraman00

canali said:


> Recent review of new oppo sonica, soon to be released
> http://hometheaterreview.com/oppo-digital-sonica-wi-fi-speaker-reviewed/?page=2
> 
> End of article talks about some of the competition and how it stacks up.
> wish they'd compared it to bluesound but they didn't


 
  
 Nice article @canali, thanks for posting.  What do you think?
  
 I'm thinking of adding an aftermarket solution to whatever speakers I get, to make them wireless.
  
 Bluetooth:
  
 https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-980-000910-Bluetooth-Adapter-Streaming/dp/B00IQBSW28
  
 Bluetooth and Wi Fi:
  
 https://www.amazon.com/Pure-Jongo-Wireless-Adapter-Bluetooth/dp/B00CY9Q4KU


----------



## nuraman00

I've placed my order:
  
 * JBL LSR 308
 * Emotiva Airmotiv 6s
 * Dell keyboard with volume control buttons
  
 (I'd already bought my cables in June).
  
 The Vanatoo Transparant One looked intriguing with its connectivity options and sleep mode.  But I still went with the above two.
  
 I would have tried the Yamaha HS8 had it been priced comparatively to the above two.
  
 Will keep this thread updated as I receive and compare them.


----------



## Mentality

Very interested to hear your thoughts on the Airmotiv 6s when you get them. I want to use them for a desktop set up and am a little concerned as to whether or not they will be overwhelming on a desktop.


----------



## theveterans

Studio monitors that don't have bigger than 8" woofer and a tweeter won't be overwhelming on a near-field listening IMO.


----------



## qiujiaheng

Just got my Dynaudio BM5 compact. Pretty happy with its performance.


----------



## nuraman00

mentality said:


> Very interested to hear your thoughts on the Airmotiv 6s when you get them. I want to use them for a desktop set up and am a little concerned as to whether or not they will be overwhelming on a desktop.


 
  
 I compared the JBL LSR 308 and the Airmotiv 6s across 17 tracks.
  
 There were only 2 tracks where I had a slight preference to the Airmotiv 6s.
  
 Other than that, I couldn't tell them apart.
  
 Because of that, the tiebreakers would be:
  
 * Airmotiv 6s has a smaller footprint.
 * JBL has noticeably louder hum.
  
 Because of that, I'd go with the Airmotiv 6s.
  
 I did miss the bass of having a subwoofer on 3 tracks.
  
 Other than that, I liked the sound of both.
  
 FYI, when I compared 3 headphones in 2014, I could tell the sound signature of each of them, and I had a preference on which headphone I liked each track with, on 11 of 26 tracks.  But with these speakers, I couldn't tell them apart.
  
 I regret comparing two things too similar, and wish I had chosen one 2.1 system to compare against, or at least something that sounded different, so I could see if I had a preference.
  
 It's too late into my 30 day return period to get something else and start comparing.  It would take a week for something to arrive, and then I'd need several days after that to test.
  
 Sure, I could add on a sub, but that's not a priority for me.  It's only noticeable on a few tracks, and the overall sound is still good.  Plus I just wanted to compare one system vs. another, and not have to consider add ons.
  
 Barring any sudden development, I'm going to initiate the return process for the JBL.
  
 Question:  Should I be concerned about power usage?  Should I turn the speakers off when not in use?


----------



## yay101

You can always measure to be sure, but most A/B Amps will use negligible amounts of power at idle, and smartly designed class A will "power down" when not in use to a B class type backup. In either case we are talking 1-10 Watts draw. Older Amps are known to both have no idle mode and require heating to sound their best. If it's a built in amp it should advertise somewhere about low idle consumption, no manufacturer wants their amp getting hot (not operating temp) when not in use after all.


----------



## nuraman00

yay101 said:


> You can always measure to be sure, but most A/B Amps will use negligible amounts of power at idle, and smartly designed class A will "power down" when not in use to a B class type backup. In either case we are talking 1-10 Watts draw. Older Amps are known to both have no idle mode and require heating to sound their best. If it's a built in amp it should advertise somewhere about low idle consumption, no manufacturer wants their amp getting hot (not operating temp) when not in use after all.


 
  
 Thanks.
  
 The JBL says they are a class D.  A search about class D says that they are more efficient in their power output.
  
 What you're saying about these amps being designed for low power consumption makes sense. 
  
 Just wondering though, for my understanding, if there's a difference between the way you describe a class A powering down, and a class D.


----------



## yay101

It's way more complicated than I'm making it sound but:

Class A always running, newer designs use Smart switching techniques to flick over to a class B stage when no draw is occuring (idle).

Class A/B actually uses the class A side for amplification at lower volumes, then when the power is really needed they flick over to class AB to belt out the sound.

Class D is by far the most efficient and can be left on forever drawing next to nothing, they are nearing 100% efficiency in modern chip Amps. It's looked down on by amplifier purists as a "lesser" solution. And technically it is not as good as older more power hungry amp types.

But as I'm sure you are aware most people who listen to a good class D won't even be able to tell you that's what they are hearing. In fact one of smsl's class D Amps is among my favourites I have ever heard, and I've tried most amps that get overwhelming praise so don't feel like you are missing out at all. JBL know their business.


----------



## theveterans

> Class A/B actually uses the class B side for amplification at lower volumes, then when the power is really needed they flick over to class A to belt out the sound.


 
  
 I think you got this part wrong. Class A/B uses class A for low power (i.e. headphones) while it switches to Class AB topology for loudspeaker operation (via gain switch). An example is Schiit Ragnarok.


----------



## yay101

theveterans said:


> I think you got this part wrong. Class A/B uses class A for low power (i.e. headphones) while it switches to Class AB topology for loudspeaker operation (via gain switch). An example is Schiit Ragnarok.




You are correct, I listed them backwards in the low volume section, but the power saving is correct. Poweramps use a bias method to switch to AB as soon as the load is too high for class A to not go full fireball, in reading it said a great class A has an efficiency of just 30%. Ouch.


----------



## nuraman00

Thank you.
  
 What class amplifier does the Emotiva Airmotiv 6s have?  Just wondering.


----------



## theveterans

The airmotiv 5s has a Class AB amp.
  
http://www.trulynet.com/13040/Gadgets/audiophile-budget-big-sound-emotiva-airmotiv-5s/
  
 All the Airmotiv family share the same amp with different power output as the you go up in woofer sizes.
  
 Usually, Studio monitors with class AB amps have a finned heatsink for heat dissipation such as my Yamaha HS7. The heatsinks become warm, but not hot to touch unlike pure class A amp topology.


----------



## Shermos

Hi all, noobie here.
  
 My Altec Lansing MX5021 set just died after 10 years of service. I really love these speakers, but it looks like they're beyond repair. I'm looking for a replacement as close to the same quality as I can get.
  
 I'm leaning heavily towards the Swan M50W's. I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who's tried these or might have a better alternative.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## melen1717

I would guess that your budget should be $250 to $300 (the Swans are $300) and at that price range there are quite a few excellent systems available. What if you can save lets say $250 and get a 2.1 system for less than $50 and still have a decent system? Have you heard of the Cyber Acoustic CA-3602 (62 watts) desktop system??? I'm a 35 year experienced audiophile and I guarantee you that you will be delightfully surprised as I was. Why spend $300 when you can experience decent sound quality for less than $50?  I've got a audiophile quality stereo set-up with (just to mention a few) very good electronics and speakers... amps like NAD, Onkyo, Rotel and Adcom and speakers like ELAC, Triangle Espirit EZ Titus, B&W and Monitor Audio. Of course not trying to compare a $50 set-up to any of the mentioned audiophile quality ($$$) I have as my main listening set-up BUT I can tell you this, sound and build quality is very very good. Lets just say that the Cyber Acoustic is the "Poor Mans Audiophile Dream Come True"...  Just click on the picture and see the review. You can get these at Amazon or Newegg. Enjoy...
  
http://theroundingsound.com/audiophile-pc-speakers/


----------



## melen1717

shermos said:


> Hi all, noobie here.
> 
> My Altec Lansing MX5021 set just died after 10 years of service. I really love these speakers, but it looks like they're beyond repair. I'm looking for a replacement as close to the same quality as I can get.
> 
> ...


 
 I would guess that your budget should be $250 to $300 (the Swans are $300) and at that price range there are quite a few excellent systems available. What if you can save lets say $250 and get a 2.1 system for less than $50 and still have a decent system? Have you heard of the Cyber Acoustic CA-3602 (62 watts) desktop system??? I'm a 35 year experienced audiophile and I guarantee you that you will be delightfully surprised as I was. Why spend $300 when you can experience decent sound quality for less than $50?  I've got a audiophile quality stereo set-up with (just to mention a few) very good electronics and speakers... amps like NAD, Onkyo, Rotel and Adcom and speakers like ELAC, Triangle Espirit EZ Titus, B&W and Monitor Audio. Of course not trying to compare a $50 set-up to any of the mentioned audiophile quality ($$$) I have as my main listening set-up BUT I can tell you this, sound and build quality is very very good. Lets just say that the Cyber Acoustic is the "Poor Mans Audiophile Dream Come True"...  Just click on the link below and see the review. You can get these at Amazon or Newegg. Enjoy...
  
http://theroundingsound.com/audiophile-pc-speakers/


----------



## nuraman00

yay101 said:


> It's way more complicated than I'm making it sound but:
> 
> Class A always running, newer designs use Smart switching techniques to flick over to a class B stage when no draw is occuring (idle).
> 
> ...


 
  
  


theveterans said:


> > Class A/B actually uses the class B side for amplification at lower volumes, then when the power is really needed they flick over to class A to belt out the sound.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  


yay101 said:


> theveterans said:
> 
> 
> > I think you got this part wrong. Class A/B uses class A for low power (i.e. headphones) while it switches to Class AB topology for loudspeaker operation (via gain switch). An example is Schiit Ragnarok.
> ...


 
  
  
 Thanks to all for the explanation.


----------



## nuraman00

So when looking at return shipping options:
  
 * USPS will be *$71.95 per package.*
 * Fed Ex is $74.16 for both packages
 * UPS is *$112.99*  for both packages


----------



## nuraman00

shermos said:


> Hi all, noobie here.
> 
> My Altec Lansing MX5021 set just died after 10 years of service. I really love these speakers, but it looks like they're beyond repair. I'm looking for a replacement as close to the same quality as I can get.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I was considering the Swan M50W too when I first started this thread.
  
 I wish I had kept it as one of the two options I ended up comparing against.
  
 Let us know whatever you decide.


----------



## Shermos

nuraman00 said:


> I was considering the Swan M50W too when I first started this thread.
> 
> I wish I had kept it as one of the two options I ended up comparing against.
> 
> Let us know whatever you decide.


 

 Hey Nuraman. I decided to go with the Swans. I'll do a review after I get them and link it here.


----------



## nuraman00

shermos said:


> nuraman00 said:
> 
> 
> > I was considering the Swan M50W too when I first started this thread.
> ...


 
  
 So, what do you think?


----------



## nuraman00

I got the Emotiva Airmotiv 6s at the beginning of September.
  
 I'm having a problem when my PC goes into hibernate mode, or restarts.
  
 Sometimes, but not all the time, when either of these two things happen, I hear a sprinkler like static noise. It lasts a few seconds.
  
 Is there a way to mute the audio after X minutes of inactivity? I think that would prevent that noise.
  
 Or, is there some other way to put the speakers to sleep mode?


----------



## goldark

I often hear that to get the equivalent performance of a headphone, you'd have to spend 3 or 4 times on speakers. This is strictly speaking in terms of detail, clarity, resolution. Obviously, things like sound stage and imaging, presentation are different for all headphones when compared to speakers.

Is this accurate in your opinion? If not, what ratio do you think is correct?

I'm of the opinion that this is true for headphones under $500. And after that, diminishing returns hits pretty hard and gets to the point where speaker performance becomes cheaper than the top-of-the-line multi-thousand dollar headphones such as the Audeze LCD-4, Focal Utopia, HiFiMan HE-1000, Abyss, etc.

I also feel that IEM performance can be had for even cheaper with $100 IEM's competing with $500 speakers in terms of sound quality.

What are your thoughts?


----------



## theveterans

goldark said:


> I often hear that to get the equivalent performance of a headphone, you'd have to spend 3 or 4 times on speakers. This is strictly speaking in terms of detail, clarity, resolution. Obviously, things like sound stage and imaging, presentation are different for all headphones when compared to speakers.
> 
> Is this accurate in your opinion? If not, what ratio do you think is correct?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nope I don't think it's. My entry-fi level Yamaha HS7 speakers when listened strictly for near field listening blows mid-fi level AKG K712 on all SQ areas for the same price IMO ($299). But depending on your sound profile tastes, YMMV.


----------



## nuraman00

shermos said:


> nuraman00 said:
> 
> 
> > I was considering the Swan M50W too when I first started this thread.
> ...


 
  
 So what did you think?


----------



## nuraman00

canali said:


> purpleangel said:
> 
> 
> > The Hosa CMP-159 cables can be pulled apart, but that connector (1/4") will not work with the Airmotiv 6.
> ...


 
  
 Hi @canali .  Did you end up getting anything?


----------



## canali

nuraman00 said:


> Hi @canali .  Did you end up getting anything?


 
  
 going to go most likely for oppo sonica wifi speakers...perhaps get 2 as l/r
 ....about to be released shortly.
 and possibly their new sonica dac, too.
 https://www.oppodigital.com/sonica/


----------



## nuraman00

canali said:


> nuraman00 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi @canali .  Did you end up getting anything?
> ...


 
 Cool, thanks.
  
 Whenever you get those items, let us know what you think.  If you post your thoughts in another thread, can you link to those posts in this thread too?


----------



## canali

wow some interesting quality blutooth aptx speakers out there.
 http://www.trustedreviews.com/best-bluetooth-speakers_round-up
  
 ...check out Riva    
 http://rivaaudio.com/
  
 ....or Sound Matters....small speakers
 blutooth aptx...some with a ''subwoofer'' and Audioquest cables...
 https://soundmatters.com/product/foxl-duet/
  
_some (l_ike new Riva Wand series including the _arena_ and their TOTL $500_ festival_ speakers
 due this month putting out 200 watts)
 can even (i believe) take usb and 24/192 files
 http://rivaaudio.com/wand/http://rivaaudio.com/riva-arena/#specs
 http://rivaaudio.com/riva-festival/#specs


----------



## Digitalis

Bear in mind the speakers you buy will change a bit once they are burned in a bit. I have been burning in a pair Klipsch RP-160M passives, that I plan to use in my photography studio..The horn loaded titanium tweeters Klipsch use required me to change the op-amps in my creative X7 so the high frequencies weren't so in my face, though with burning in I feel that has mellowed out a bit. When I move these out I have also been looking into perhaps getting another pair or looking into a speaker with an inherently smoother sound, the Airmotiv 6s have been on my list, along with the SVS Prime bookshelf speakers. The Klipsch RP-160M speakers are a bit too tall for proper placement on my desk, and the built in plinth tilts them in a rather annoying way that inhibits proper near-field listening.


----------



## nuraman00

digitalis said:


> Bear in mind the speakers you buy will change a bit once they are burned in a bit. I have been burning in a pair Klipsch RP-160M passives, that I plan to use in my photography studio..The horn loaded titanium tweeters Klipsch use required me to change the op-amps in my creative X7 so the high frequencies weren't so in my face, though with burning in I feel that has mellowed out a bit. When I move these out I have also been looking into perhaps getting another pair or looking into a speaker with an inherently smoother sound, the Airmotiv 6s have been on my list, along with the SVS Prime bookshelf speakers. The Klipsch RP-160M speakers are a bit too tall for proper placement on my desk, and the built in plinth tilts them in a rather annoying way that inhibits proper near-field listening.


 
  
 I auditioned the JBL LSR308 and the Airmotiv 6s.
  
 This post explains why I chose the Airmotiv 6s:  post #139
  
 The Airmotiv 6s is 13" high vs. 16" for the RP-160M, so that might help.
  
 I also read about the RP-160M when I was researching.
  
 How did you connect them, and from what?


----------



## nuraman00

canali said:


> wow some interesting quality blutooth aptx speakers out there.
> http://www.trustedreviews.com/best-bluetooth-speakers_round-up
> 
> ...check out Riva
> ...


 
  
 Don't Bluetooth compress sound?
  
 If so, wouldn't Wi Fi be the preferred wireless connectivity option?


----------



## theveterans

WiFi has a much greater power consumption than Bluetooth so a portable source wouldn't last long when playing music through WiFi. However if both source and speakers are wired to the power grid, WiFi is undeniably superior.


----------



## Digitalis

nuraman00 said:


> I auditioned the JBL LSR308 and the Airmotiv 6s.
> 
> This post explains why I chose the Airmotiv 6s:  post #139
> 
> ...


 

 The Creative X7 can directly drive 8 ohm passives, I have the optional creative 144w power supply so that gives the amp extra oomph to fill out the low end on speakers. The Klipsch RP160M are remarkably sensitive speakers: efficiency is somewhere around 96dB @ 2.83V / 1m, not many passive speakers can get anywhere near that.The Creative X7 allows you to connect speakers with either bare wire or banana plugs [which is the classier option IMO]. the X7 is currently connected to my laptop through USB.
  
 Currently listing to: Hans Zimmer - Hello Beastie.


----------



## canali

nuraman00 said:


> Don't Bluetooth compress sound?
> 
> If so, wouldn't Wi Fi be the preferred wireless connectivity option?




I've heard aptx is closest so far to CD quality however


----------



## Digitalis

canali said:


> I've heard aptx is closest so far to CD quality however


 

 APTX also has a latency that can be anywhere from 32ms to 100ms, so if you're also watching a movie or music video things can get horribly out of sync.
  
 Also, APTX must be incorporated in both sender and receiver to obtain the enhanced sound quality, otherwise you are in a crap in>crap out situation.


----------



## canali

Seems the company is trying to allow multiple wls systems to be used with the new send series...airplay, wifi Bluetooth (and FLAC/alac was, aac etc)

http://m.highdefdigest.com/news/show/riva/Speakers/wand-series/festival/arena/Home_Audio/Wi-Fi/Bluetooth/highres-audio/riva-unveils-wand-series-multispace-audio-system-speakers-prices-start-at-249/34631


----------



## nuraman00

theveterans said:


> WiFi has a much greater power consumption than Bluetooth so a portable source wouldn't last long when playing music through WiFi. However if both source and speakers are wired to the power grid, WiFi is undeniably superior.


 
  
 I see.  So if it's a battery powered portable source, then the power consumption of WiFi would be too great for the source to last many hours.
  
 But if it's a source that is electrically powered, then it would be feasible.
  
 That's what you're saying, right?


----------



## nuraman00

digitalis said:


> nuraman00 said:
> 
> 
> > I auditioned the JBL LSR308 and the Airmotiv 6s.
> ...


 
  
 Thank you. 
  
 Just thinking about how different devices have different type of connectors.
  
 Are there pros and cons to having a connector that uses bare wire, banana plugs, or RCA cables?


----------



## nuraman00

canali said:


> nuraman00 said:
> 
> 
> > Don't Bluetooth compress sound?
> ...


 
  
  


digitalis said:


> canali said:
> 
> 
> > I've heard aptx is closest so far to CD quality however
> ...


 
  
  


canali said:


> Seems the company is trying to allow multiple wls systems to be used with the new send series...airplay, wifi Bluetooth (and FLAC/alac was, aac etc)
> 
> http://m.highdefdigest.com/news/show/riva/Speakers/wand-series/festival/arena/Home_Audio/Wi-Fi/Bluetooth/highres-audio/riva-unveils-wand-series-multispace-audio-system-speakers-prices-start-at-249/34631


 
  
 Thanks for the info.
  
 If they are allowing WiFi, what about the concerns theveterans raised in post #166?


----------



## yay101

The gap in power usage is huge, but it's still small for a modern smartphone/tablet/laptop. I made a portable wireless hard drive with a 10000mah battery and even sending hd video to multiple users it lasts at least a day.


----------



## canali

well someone has offered me US$210 for a pair of excellent condition audioengine a5+
 (no remote)....is moving..not too shabby...could also use them as l/r speakers for when
 i get my new tv, too, eventually.
  
 still alot of love for audioengine 5+?
 dar still recommends them in his xmas gift guide
 http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2016/12/dars-holiday-gift-guide-2016/


----------



## yay101

A5+'s are fantastic multimedia speakers aka nothing sounds bad on them, even tv sounds really good. They aren't the most resolving things in the world but they can still make your couch shake during movies without a sub which is always a plus. And of course all genres of music sound good, even internet radio streams.


----------



## tomsch

I have a pair of 5+s that have been nice over the last few years but they have been retired in favor of a pair of Focal Alpha 50s that sound amazing for the price. The ability to shelf the treble and bass up or down makes tuning for a specific placement easy. Very resolving but will show no mercy to a bad source. I have them on my desktop and typically stream Tidal through my Mac and a Dragonfly DAC. My A5+s now sit on the other wall of my office and are used for my EWI.


----------



## listen4joy

presonus eris 4.5 is also a good speaker.


----------



## canali

got the white audioengine 5+ mint for only $US187.
 can't beat that price
  
 when i told my bud (who once had the US$70k system) they were to be my desktop speakers
 he laughed...said definitely not desktop speakers size...bookshelf, yes, desktop no.
 I'm going to have fun with them anyway on my desktop (despite it being on the smallish side)
  
 and yes: audioengine did note in a reply to me that they sound their best 6' apart.
 oh, well...i can always sell them if things don't work out.


----------



## canali

Decided to try to look for a pair of emotiva airmotiv 4s then sell the audioengine s...going to prob keep the pioneer SW 8mk2 subwoofer to add some meat to miss and bottom end.


----------



## nuraman00

canali said:


> Decided to try to look for a pair of emotiva airmotiv 4s then sell the audioengine s...going to prob keep the pioneer SW 8mk2 subwoofer to add some meat to miss and bottom end.


 
 How do you like that Pioneer subwoofer?
  
 How would you connect it to the Airmotiv 4s?  From what ports and what cables?


----------



## canali

nuraman00 said:


> How do you like that Pioneer subwoofer?
> 
> How would you connect it to the Airmotiv 4s?  From what ports and what cables?



sorry but I wasn't clear..I just bought it used ($75, on its way) based on the review here.
http://m.thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-budget-subwoofer/
Think for all these smaller monitors a sub works well to put more meat on the bones, so to speak.


----------



## canali

and if anyone does buy a small sub to work with their computer monitors it seems
*setting the sub's crossover for **around 80hz* is a good place to start for this sub, if you buy one:
_i wonder if this is a good rule of thumb for many of the desktop monitors on here, despite saying they're good down to 50hz or so._
  
 excerpt from comments:
  
 _*Question:*_
 Thanks for all the hard work Brent _(one of the reviewers)._
 I've been anticipating this article since it was announced over the weekend.
 I elected to go for the SW-8MK2 for my home theater, can't wait to pick it up a Best Buy today. I also read your article on Home Theater Review, Terry really upset a lot of fanboys with his review 
 Also looking for some advice, I have the specs on my center and tower speakers which have a xover of 58 Hz, but stupid Bose doesn't publish specs for their products. I have Bose 301V for my surrounds. Should I start at 58 Hz and work backwards?
 What would you recommend for speaker settings for my other speakers. My center is a NHT ThreeC with a xover of 800 Hz, 3.2kHz so I have that set to large. The absolute towers are rated for 58 Hz to 20 kHz, had these set to large without a sub but plan to change that now.
  
  



 

  
*•*
*Reply*
*Brent*  Matt Fischer • 8 months ago
Hi, Matt.* My inclination would be to cross everything over at 80 Hz. *That Pioneer sub sounds really good at the higher frequencies. You can move the crossover point down some if you find the subwoofer's overloading on the upper bass stuff. If you want to run your towers down to 60 Hz, that's fine, too -- it's a matter partly of personal preference and partly of the room acoustics and your speaker and listening positions. On the surrounds, I'd just cross them over at 80 Hz. The surrounds don't matter so much.


----------



## nuraman00

canali said:


> nuraman00 said:
> 
> 
> > How do you like that Pioneer subwoofer?
> ...


 

 Have you gotten the Pioneer subwoofer yet?
  
 And are you connecting it to the Airmotiv 4s?


----------



## canali

nuraman00 said:


> Have you gotten the Pioneer subwoofer yet?
> 
> And are you connecting it to the Airmotiv 4s?




Hooked up to audioengine a5+


----------



## nuraman00

canali said:


> nuraman00 said:
> 
> 
> > Have you gotten the Pioneer subwoofer yet?
> ...


 
  
 What cables and to which ports did you use, from the Pioneer SW 8mk2 to the  Audioengine  a5+?


----------



## canali

nuraman00 said:


> What cables and to which ports did you use, from the Pioneer SW 8mk2 to the  Audioengine  a5+?


 
 just some cables off of amazon for the subwoofer (had good reviews)
 dual outputs of audioengine a5
  
 question to those using floor stands?
 i'm thinking of moving the audioengines to floor speaker stands
 to give them 5-6' feet separation (vs current 3')
 for better sound.
 any good value speaker stands you'd suggest at 29'' height?
  
 i'm still seeking to swap these out for some focal alpha 50s.


----------



## theveterans

canali said:


> just some cables off of amazon for the subwoofer (had good reviews)
> dual outputs of audioengine a5
> 
> question to those using floor stands?
> ...


 
  
 If you like the very slightly brighter side of neutral sound signature with great PRAT, you'll like studio speakers whether they're Adam (X series), Focal, Genelecs, or Yamahas. Only gripe about them is they DO NOT hide any harshness and edginess in the recording so you'll be very picky about what kind of recordings you want to play on them. On the flip side, they have a much more defined start and stop notes, making you feel that the music is being played slightly faster and ultimately sounding like real life without a hint of coloration in the timbre.
  
 With regards to separation, I prefer the 60 degree orientation. Since I use my speakers as a computer speaker, I stick with 2.5' distance between them. If I were to listen on a living room, they will be separated 6' from each other.


----------



## nuraman00

canali said:


> nuraman00 said:
> 
> 
> > What cables and to which ports did you use, from the Pioneer SW 8mk2 to the  Audioengine  a5+?
> ...


 
  
 Thank you.  I didn't realize the sub was an output from the Audioengine a5.  I had thought the sub's output would connect to the a5.
  
 The Airmotiv 6s doesn't look like it has any outputs.
  
 Does that mean I can't connect a sub to it?


----------



## canali

theveterans said:


> If you like the very slightly brighter side of neutral sound signature with great PRAT, you'll like studio speakers whether they're Adam (X series), Focal, Genelecs, or Yamahas. Only gripe about them is they DO NOT hide any harshness and edginess in the recording so you'll be very picky about what kind of recordings you want to play on them. On the flip side, they have a much more defined start and stop notes, making you feel that the music is being played slightly faster and ultimately sounding like real life without a hint of coloration in the timbre.
> 
> With regards to separation, I prefer the 60 degree orientation. Sinc?


 
 thanks...have read repeat good things on the focal alpha 50 however.
  
 on the issue of stands, boy they can get crazy in price....aesthetics aside
 do you feel they truly offer an affect on speaker acoustics
 (filling them with sand notwithstanding)?


----------



## theveterans

nuraman00 said:


> Thank you.  I didn't realize the sub was an output from the Audioengine a5.  I had thought the sub's output would connect to the a5.
> 
> The Airmotiv 6s doesn't look like it has any outputs.
> 
> Does that mean I can't connect a sub to it?


 
  
 You will connect your DAC first to a sub then to Airmotivs, Focals etc.
  
 See here:


----------



## theveterans

canali said:


> thanks...have read repeat good things on the focal alpha 50 however.
> 
> on the issue of stands, boy they can get crazy in price....aesthetics aside
> do you feel they truly offer an affect on speaker acoustics
> (filling them with sand notwithstanding)?


 
  
 I have the basic ones without the sand and the toe tips. In my case, room acoustics >> fancy stands. IMO, all you need is a foam damping material so that the bass won't resonate through the stands and that the bass response is tight and flat.


----------



## canali

theveterans said:


> I have the basic ones without the sand and the toe tips. In my case, room acoustics >> fancy stands. IMO, all you need is a foam damping material so that the bass won't resonate through the stands and that the bass response is tight and flat.


 
  
  
 thanks...


----------



## canali

just ordered these adjustable *jamstands ms70*
 stands on ebay
 us$65 delivered to canada.
 on the many retail sites they're well over $100
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/361493982343
 can handle good weights, too.


----------



## canali

help please:
  
 to guys using the chord mojo (or even a dragonfly red) as a dac preamp
 (say from laptop) to powered monitors with separate subwoofer:
  _what cables and configuration would you need  for them..say the focal alpha 50s below?_
  
 i currently have the audioenginea5+, and prob will upgrade (even emotiva airmotive 4s)
 or most likely focal alpha 50s.
  
 here is a pic of the back of the speaker....am unsure of the type of cable i'd need.
 would i need a 3.5 to split into dual rca coax (?) with one cable going into left speaker
 ..and the other cable going into the right?
  
 i also have a pioneer sw 8km2 (?) subwoofer as well.
  

 would this be the cable needed? would i need to split it apart to left/right
 (since the speakers would be 6ft apart)?


----------



## theveterans

Need to split them apart OR split this cable completely then hook your 3.5mm to RCA cable:


----------



## tomsch

I also have Focal Alpha50s. From my DAC I have an AudioQuest mini 3.5mm to RCA adaptor. The RCA adaptor then feeds a pair of Analysis Plus Oval One interconnects. The Oval Ones are unique in that when you buy a pair they come as two separate interconnects and not connected together.


----------



## canali

tomsch said:


> I also have Focal Alpha50s. From my DAC I have an AudioQuest mini 3.5mm to RCA adaptor. The RCA adaptor then feeds a pair of Analysis Plus Oval One interconnects. The Oval Ones are unique in that when you buy a pair they come as two separate interconnects and not connected together.


thanks any good adaptor you suggest?.
Also can you hook up a sub?
Lastly enjoying the focals?


----------



## tomsch

canali said:


> thanks any good adaptor you suggest?.
> Also can you hook up a sub?
> Lastly enjoying the focals?


 
 Hi. I'm using the Audioquest adaptor and it seems to work well. Not sure about hooking up a sub since in my desktop environment the bass is very good. I'm sure a sub would add more weight but so far the Focals are working well. And yes, I'm loving these speakers! I was previously using Audioengine 5+ and the Alpha50s are a significant step up in resolution and overall scale of the music.


----------



## nuraman00

@canali, once you have your setup, can you take a pic of all of the cables and connections?


----------



## canali

nuraman00 said:


> @canali
> , once you have your setup, can you take a pic of all of the cables and connections?




Sure ..Btw what setup are you considering?


----------



## nuraman00

canali said:


> nuraman00 said:
> 
> 
> > @canali
> ...


 
  
 I'm not making any changes to my equipment or setup for myself at the moment.
  
 I just want to see how you go from the the DAC to possibly your Pioneer sub to the Focal50, and with any adapters you use.


----------



## canali

nuraman00 said:


> I'm not making any changes to my equipment or setup for myself at the moment.
> 
> I just want to see how you go from the the DAC to possibly your Pioneer sub to the Focal50, and with any adapters you use.




Unsure if I'd keep my sub if I get the focal alpha 50s...hear their bass is pretty good as is....Still don't know how to set up a sub with them


----------



## sterling1

JBL Professional Series 3 LSR305


----------



## canali

sterling1 said:


> JBL Professional Series 3 LSR305


 
 those do interest me too....with the focal alpha 50.
 the genelec G series look nice too but $$$$$
 only thing is the volume control on jbl is on the back, i've read.
 also noticeable hiss?


----------



## theveterans

I don't like Class D amps since it's hiss prone IMO. Only Genelec's Class D built-in amps are the ones I trust. Yamaha HS series OTOH are I believe class AB even though Yamaha doesn't specify it since my Yamaha HS7's heatsink gets pretty warm even if there is no music playing for hours.


----------



## nuraman00

sterling1 said:


> JBL Professional Series 3 LSR305


 
  
  


canali said:


> sterling1 said:
> 
> 
> > JBL Professional Series 3 LSR305
> ...


 
  
 I auditioned both the Airmotiv 6s and JBL LSR308 together.
  
 Both were very comparable, I could barely tell the difference except for on 3/25 tracks, and those were slight differences.
  
 I didn't like the hum from the JBL though.  I tried but couldn't get rid of it.
  
 @cel4145 tried the LSR305 and send the Airmotiv 5s.
  
 His reasons:
  


> I thought the Airmotiv 5s ribbon tweeter was as nice as people had described, and perhaps had a bit of an advantage over the LSR305 horn tweeter in resolution/clarity, but it was a bit brighter than neutral (I like neutral or slightly rolled off). In some midbass frequencies, the 5s seemed to have a bit better clarity/texturing, but did not extend quite as deep on the low end. But the LSR305 has much better mids to me. The 5s sounded a bit congested in comparison. Mids, more neutral highs, and better bass extension won out


----------



## canali

nuraman00 said:


> I auditioned both the Airmotiv 6s and JBL LSR308 together.
> 
> Both were very comparable, I could barely tell the difference except for on 3/25 tracks, and those were slight differences.
> 
> ...


 
 thanks...did you also check out any adam or focal series, too, in comparisons?
  
 bang for buck you can't beat the jbl, however, can you.
 but the hiss...and the volume control on the back (or can it be controlled by laptop or dac?)
  
 i guess for the dragonfly red or chord mojo since they take 3.5 or 1/8''', i'd have to buy some special
 adaptor for the jbl xlr cables...also for the ifi micro since it has regular rca outs.
 am sure something exist.
  
 hopefully some jbl 305 owners can chime in.


----------



## nuraman00

canali said:


> nuraman00 said:
> 
> 
> > I auditioned both the Airmotiv 6s and JBL LSR308 together.
> ...


 
  
 For me, the Airmotiv 6s was $500, as was the JBL LSR308.  So cost didn't factor in.
  
 For volume control, I bought this keyboard.  It can also be controlled via dac.
  
 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ZYLMQH0/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
  
 I bought these TRS cables for the JBL:
  
 https://www.amazon.com/Hosa-CMP-159-Stereo-Breakout-Cable/dp/B005HGM1D6
  
 I didn't try out the Adam or focal series.  It's already enough work to compare two side by side.
  
 I'd listen to a track, turn the power off one speaker, switch cables, then turn the power on the other one.  I'd always turn the power off when switching cables for speakers.
  
 This was my setup when I had both:


----------



## nuraman00

Have you tried your Airmotiv 4s?  What do you think?


----------



## Bananas Ananas

I think OP should try Kef EGG system. Excellent speakers and could add a subwoofer later on.
  
 https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=1186361&gclid=CNyKh6HGxdECFY-NswodDFkHYA&is=REG&ap=y&c3api=1876%2C52934714882%2C&Q=&A=details


----------



## theveterans

^ That's nice looking speakers. I just hope the sound is on the accurate side rather than U,V or W-shaped.


----------



## canali

btw...*massdrop has the jbl 305 on sale a*t *US*$*99 each plus 15 shipping.*
*4 days remaining*
 but not for us canucks....blah!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 https://www.massdrop.com/buy/jbl-lsr305


----------



## theveterans

canali said:


> btw...*massdrop has the jbl 305 on sale a*t *99 each plus 15 shipping.*
> *4 days remaining*
> but not for us canucks....blah!
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/jbl-lsr305


 
  
 Hissing is a no-no if you want to hear the blackest background your equipment has to offer. Just go for real monitors like the Focals, Genelecs, Adams and KEFs. I really don't consider Yamahas as a studio monitor since HS is meant as Home Studio not a pro studio lol, and Yamaha HS7 does sound like a hi-fi speaker than a studio monitor to my ears anyway.


----------



## Digitalis

theveterans said:


> . I really don't consider Yamahas as a studio monitor since HS is meant as Home Studio not a pro studio lol,


 
 Curiously I cannot find any reference to this on the Yamaha pro audio website. I have worked with the HS7 monitors quite a bit, and they have a flatter response curve than other monitors in their price bracket. I'm prepared to say I have issues with average consumers buying into "PRO" gear, for instance: if I handed you my Leica S2 with a Leica APO-Tele-Elmar-S 180mm f/3.5 CS would you have any idea how to get the most out of such a camera and lens? probably not. If you handed me a P&S camera I'd be able to get images you wouldn't.
  
 Pro gear in the hands of an amateur is frequently wasteful, there is a great commitment of time and resources involved with working with professional gear. Unless you have your own recording studio using studio monitors just for music playback from a PC is only using them to half their full potential.


----------



## nuraman00

theveterans said:


> canali said:
> 
> 
> > btw...*massdrop has the jbl 305 on sale a*t *99 each plus 15 shipping.*
> ...


 
  
 What do you consider the Emotiva Airmotivs?


----------



## canali

think i'll stick to the focal alpha 50s.
 i tweeted steven guttenberg of CNET
 as he's reviewed the jbl 305, airmotivas, adam f5
 and focal....asked him for his op...his reply:
 ''focal''


----------



## nuraman00

canali said:


> think i'll stick to the focal alpha 50s.
> i twittered steven guttenberg of CNET
> as he's reviewed the jbl 305, airmotivas, adam f5
> and focal....asked him for his op...his reply:
> focal alpha 50


 
  
 Cool.  I see that one has tone control.
  
 I also see that for the price range I was looking for in September, ~ $500 a pair, this is in the $600 range.
  
 Did he have any warnings or concerns about the other ones?


----------



## canali

nope...steve just replied 'focal' in his tweet to me.
 nothing wrong with any of those speakers per his reviews...
 just his pref i guess.


----------



## theveterans

nuraman00 said:


> What do you consider the Emotiva Airmotivs?




I haven't heard them yet.


----------



## Digitalis

nuraman00 said:


> What do you consider the Emotiva Airmotivs?


 
 i'm referring to the Airmotiv 6, the smaller speakers will have different qualities: the Airmotivs 6 have a good sound, a little forward but good vertical imaging, horizontal imaging is a bit limited. They need toe in, even for near field as the sweet spot for listening is smaller than other speakers. Which is a shame as Mids and Bass are generally excellent.


----------



## nuraman00

digitalis said:


> nuraman00 said:
> 
> 
> > What do you consider the Emotiva Airmotivs?
> ...


 

 What do vertical and horizontal imaging mean?
  
 A few posts ago, I showed what my setup was when I was comparing both the JBL LSR 308 and the Airmotiv 6s.  After I returned the JBLs, I felt I had a harder time hearing the right speaker.  I had to fiddle with its position the next several weeks before being more satisfied again.
  
 This may be what you're referring to with horizontal imaging.


----------



## theveterans

digitalis said:


> Curiously I cannot find any reference to this on the Yamaha pro audio website. I have worked with the HS7 monitors quite a bit, and they have a flatter response curve than other monitors in their price bracket. I'm prepared to say I have issues with average consumers buying into "PRO" gear, for instance: if I handed you my Leica S2 with a Leica APO-Tele-Elmar-S 180mm f/3.5 CS would you have any idea how to get the most out of such a camera and lens? probably not. If you handed me a P&S camera I'd be able to get images you wouldn't.
> 
> Pro gear in the hands of an amateur is frequently wasteful, there is a great commitment of time and resources involved with working with professional gear. Unless you have your own recording studio using studio monitors just for music playback from a PC is only using them to half their full potential.


 
  
 IMO, as long as Pro gear sounds great, it's worth every penny. Being able to mix a little more accurate than other speakers/headphones is just a bonus.


----------



## theveterans

digitalis said:


> i'm referring to the Airmotiv 6, the smaller speakers will have different qualities: the Airmotivs 6 have a good sound, a little forward but good vertical imaging, horizontal imaging is a bit limited. They need toe in, even for near field as the sweet spot for listening is smaller than other speakers. Which is a shame as Mids and Bass are generally excellent.


 
  
 The ribbon tweeter isn't as omnidirectional as waveform guide tweeters in the horizontal realm.


----------



## canali

anyone on here using the* sonore micro rendu*?
  
 darko, in his review of the new kef ls50 wls powered speakers
 mentioned it as a good component in one's chain.
 http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2016/12/kef-ls50-wireless-review-dars-product-of-the-year-2016/
  
 wondering how it would work from my setup:
 laptop to DAC to focal alpha speakers.
  
 interesting review on the *micro rendu* here
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XRi9utNBl4&ab_channel=TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel
  
 talks about using it with his hugo...*8 min mark*


----------



## jcn3

you connect the microrendu to your network and the usb out on the microrendu to the ls50.  the microrendu is a renderer and depending on what server software you're using on your pc or nas (roon, jriver, hqplayer, etc.) you'll set the mode for the microrendu.  the server will then serve music to the microrendu.
  
 Quote:


canali said:


> anyone on here using the* sonore micro rendu*?
> 
> darko, in his review of the new kef ls50 wls powered speakers
> mentioned it as a good component in one's chain.
> ...


----------



## canali

jcn3 said:


>


 
 thanks...will it work with apple airplay as well? my friend uses that alot


----------



## jcn3

canali said:


> thanks...will it work with apple airplay as well? my friend uses that alot


 
  
 mode 2 (via shairport): http://www.sonore.us/microRendu.html.  have not idea how well it works.


----------



## canali

My focal alpha 50s on the way.
US$500

Also today Darko did a review of the microrendu:
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2017/01/classy-sonores-microrendu-takes-digital-audio-higher/


----------



## theveterans

canali said:


> My focal alpha 50s on the way.
> US$500
> 
> Also today Darko did a review of the microrendu:
> http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2017/01/classy-sonores-microrendu-takes-digital-audio-higher/


 
  
 They might sound "off" at first listen so burn them in nicely when they arrive.
  
 For the microrendu, you should get the iFi low noise plug as well and a good Audioquest Ethernet cable between the router and your microrendu.


----------



## canali

theveterans said:


> They might sound "off" at first listen so burn them in nicely when they arrive.
> 
> For the microrendu, you should get the iFi low noise plug as well and a good Audioquest Ethernet cable between the router and your microrendu.




Yes I have read that they require about 20 hours of burn in: nice low Bassy music.

Also a bud feels the Auralic Aries might be a better deal, esp when you
Should buy some $$ linear power supply with the rendu.


----------



## theveterans

canali said:


> Yes I have read that they require about 20 hours of burn in: nice low Bassy music.
> 
> Also a bud feels the Auralic Aries might be a better deal, esp when you
> Should buy some $$ linear power supply with the rendu.


 
  
 Well, the iFi iPower is $49 compared to expensive ones like from Teddy Pardo, Wyred 4 Sound or S-booster. With Aries, you get a much nicer looking piece of hardware than the rendu of course. Plus you still need that expensive power supply if you want to get the best out of your Aries as well. Cost no object, Aries over rendu for me IMO.


----------



## canali

theveterans said:


> Well, the iFi iPower is $49 compared to expensive ones like from Teddy Pardo, Wyred 4 Sound or S-booster. With Aries, you get a much nicer looking piece of hardware than the rendu of course. Plus you still need that expensive power supply if you want to get the best out of your Aries as well. Cost no object, Aries over rendu for me IMO.




Thanks...My friend's thoughts:
"I am leaning towards the Auralic Aries.
Initially the Auralic Aries looks more expensive so by the time you factor in the cost of the optional power supply (Sonore Signature Series Power Supply – $1,399 / $1,589) I am at a much larger investment.
Secondly, if money were not object I would like to get the Aurender n1000H, but based on the reviews that I have read the Aries can hold its own against the pricier Aurdender."


----------



## canali

On my way home..
Focal alpha 50s

Hope they stand up to the hype and reviews.
https://www.cnet.com/news/leave-it-to-the-french-to-kick-the-sound-of-desktopcomputer-speakers-up-a-notch/


----------



## theveterans

canali said:


> On my way home..
> Focal alpha 50s


 
  
 Congrats! Share us your impressions when you're ready.


----------



## KarlMoody

theveterans said:


> Congrats! Share us your impressions when you're ready.


 
 I'd love to hear your impressions too.


----------



## tomsch

On my Alpha50s it did take a little time to break in. They do smooth out after a handful of hours.


----------



## canali

ok so just a few weeks ago I got the *Focal Alpha 50*s
*https://www.cnet.com/news/leave-it-to-the-french-to-kick-the-sound-of-desktopcomputer-speakers-up-a-notch/*
 ..sat unloved in their  boxes for a bit.
 finally 4 wks later (yes sad, I know) I hooked them up and admittedly I was a bit disappointed
 in the lack of deep ULF (makes sense given they're only 5'' woofers)l
 reason: before i'd had the Audioengine A5+ with a pioneer 8mk2 _subwoofer._...so that  lack of ULF was a contrast.
 that said, their sound out of the box is hardly bass light....more like _bass balanced._
  
 afte this quick initial listen, i  then went thru a stage where i was to sell them and buy something smaller .
 just tossed them into a box with a craigslist ad ...
  
 decided i wanted a smaller desktop solution with less wires all over.
 as a result yesterday i went and listened to the *kef eggs* due to alot of good reviews online.
 they were ok but also a bit of a letdown...again they're smaller
 so the lack of size will make a difference.....
 also tried out the *sonos series*..admittedly of the sonos 1,3 and 5
 Ironically it was the *smaller* *sonos* *1* that i liked the most: tighter bass and good punch...no wonder
 why people buy a number of them....great little devices..(.i found the sonos 3 and 5 too boomy in bass
 again it's all about where you listen to them...i was in a somewhat noisy best buy store).
  
 anyway, today I thought, _''frig, stop being a putz and give the alpha 50s another try, attempt to hide the wires_
_under the tables etc'' (_which i did)...am still burning them in.....put them on those adjustable stands I bought on ebay.
 actually am now enjoying the sound so far...not clinical
 or too analytic/sterile (as i've read some monitors can be)...pretty balanced overall
 next time i would have gotten the 65 series (bigger woofer, more bass).
 these can't take a subwoofer, btw...admittedly the Genelec G series also look very nice but $$$.
 I'll instead just enjoy these 50s.
  
 will be soon hooking up my* microrendu and ultracaps lps 1 power supply.*
 also sent in US$140 for the upgraded *Sonore/Cardas DC4 cable *(below in link) for use between power supply 
 and microrendu (say it: call me a sucker...lol...but frig i'm at the point of no return.)
_(...give me more *koolaid,* please...much more  _




_)._
 http://www.sonore.us/DC4.html
  
 might also try *Roon* again (they did invite me back for a free trial of the *new 1.3v*)
 using Tidal and ripped cds/some 24/192 as well.
  
 so hope the microrendu/ultracaps and Roon 1.3v all help to refine the SQ even more of my digital music.
  
 the listening/burning in continues...playing this loop while i take off for a bit.
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3CiZxstvEA&ab_channel=samuelietto
  
 using ifi micro idsd..will then also try dragonfly red and chord mojo
  
 have to ask someone using Tidal and the iFi micro idsd
 ..ok with my idsd micro i'm using it in 'direct' mode as the iFi crew suggested.
  
 but but but...when i went to settings in Tidal and* instead of system default* I chose the correct one:
* my iFi device...then the speaker blew up in volume..cracked suddenly...*
*freaked me out (my laptop is main volume control: is between a 2-6% only)*
  
 i later checked the other page: no forced volume or such...so i'm at a loss ..
 anyone?>


----------



## theveterans

Thanks for your impressions. When I purchased mine (Yamaha's not Focal), I knew the 5" won't have any ULF so I bought the 6.5" woofers (the sweet spot between speaker size and full bass excursion). Bigger woofers on a good implementation don't mean more bass, just more bass extension and not bloated bass. Hopefully, you haven't given up on your speaker quest. I'd try the Focal 65 or even the 80s if you want the full range.


----------



## canali

theveterans said:


> Thanks for your impressions. When I purchased mine (Yamaha's not Focal), I knew the 5" won't have any ULF so I bought the 6.5" woofers (the sweet spot between speaker size and full bass excursion). Bigger woofers on a good implementation don't mean more bass, just more bass extension and not bloated bass. Hopefully, you haven't given up on your speaker quest. I'd try the Focal 65 or even the 80s if you want the full range.


 
  
 thanks for that...in retrospect yes you're right.
 but you know what ...if I DO get rid of these and go for a smaller desktop gig,
 I'll probably splurge on the new *Oppo Sonica speaker* ...(competing against Sonos, primarily I'd imagine)
 https://www.oppodigital.com/sonica/
 ...when wired it can even play 24/192 files.
  
 just wish i was able to listen to it...but i can't...if anyone has kindly chip in.
  
 we'll see...more and more I prefer less wires and a smaller footprint....but still great SQ.


----------



## theveterans

canali said:


> thanks for that...in retrospect yes you're right.
> but you know what ...if I DO get rid of these and go for a smaller desktop gig,
> I'll probably splurge on the new *Oppo Sonica speaker* ...(competing against Sonos, primarily I'd imagine)
> https://www.oppodigital.com/sonica/
> ...


 
  
 KEF LS50 wireless?


----------



## canali

theveterans said:


> KEF LS50 wireless?


 
 for my living room sure, but listening at desktop i think the new Kef LS 50 wls would be a mismatch, if not overkill in price...
 however.... i could move them around, too...who says i have to have 2 sets of speakers, right...hmmmm.
  
 hence why i was considering the oppo sonica for my desktop if i sold the focals.
 plus the new kef ls50 wls are not near fields: insteads i think that they're traditional speakers for regular 6-10 ft listening distances.
  
 still for the price these focal alpha 50 speakers provide good value.
 better to pay a bit more (like anything in audio) and come away more satisfied.
  
 this said, however, i would enjoy hearing from someone who's listened to both the Kef x300a and the Focal Alpha 50s.
 thing with the Kefs is they have a DAC, so you can't do any DAC swap ins with your own
 ....but regardless have heard good things on them.


----------



## canali

while i'm no hardcore audiophile i do test some bass tracks watching the lovely
 and talented *Anna Sentina*.
 enjoy the eye candy and a great female bassist...my Alpha 50s sound pretty sweet....
  
 and in keeping with my avatar...
  Rush's YYZ 
  
 
  
 and some entertaining *Adam Ben Ezra:*


----------



## Digitalis

> plus the new kef ls50 wls are not near fields: they're traditional speakers for regular 6-10 ft listening distances.


 
 The Klipsch RP-160M speakers I'm presently listening to aren't designed for near field, but they pull it off admirably. They also excel in HT applications with their high power handling.
  
 The Focal A50s look good on paper, however I have issues with front ported speakers - often vocals can sound indistinct and too forward due to phase issues with the port.


----------



## canali

the imaging with these Focal Alpha 50 speakers is nice and tight...realistic, dynamic...interesting overall.

 a friend of mine who once had a $60-70k rig is overjoyed that i'm getting  back into speakers.
_ ''So happy to hear that _
  
_Nothing beats real 2.1 speakers _
  
_Magnify that by a factor of 10 when you get_
_some audiophile monitors like Proac, B&W, Totem or Sonus Faber_ ''
  
 this may sound crazy, but i'm also considering stepping up into the cms65 series.
 ...but thing is no place for a sub...despite having a larger driver, i just feel having
 a sub just adds some meat to the bones in the bottom end....esp with a really good quality sub.
 but that would mean another 1k or so easily...so just might instead save that for my room rig.
  
 and haven't decided to go powered (some dynaudios, or new kef ls 50 wls) or passive speakers.
 but that is a different thread.


----------



## nuraman00

Thanks for the updates, I've enjoyed reading your impressions.


----------



## canali

nuraman00 said:


> Thanks for the updates, I've enjoyed reading your impressions


 
  
 what of the *PSB PS1 desktop speakers and the matching 100 series sub* that goes with it?
 anyone tried that combo?...read decent things on it for bang for buck, too.
  
 https://www.lifewire.com/psb-100-desktop-subwoofer-review-3134528
  
 https://www.wifihifi.ca/LatestNewsHeadlines/Hands-onReviewSBAlphaPS1DesktopSpeakersandSubSeries100Subwoofer.html


----------



## canali

*update:* Tom Lee, a pro music store here in Canada,
 is having a sale on the *Focal Alpha 65*s...so i'm considering going to p/u a pair for cdn$900 taxes in (or US$670)
 then there is a *Naim Muso* that was just offered to me for a sweet deal, too
 decisions.....

 I can even try the Focal alpha 65s for 30 days.
 like others on here, as well as my friend, it seems a woofer size of 6-7'' is a nice sweet spot for 
 better bass extension...not too big and yet not too small.
 so will probably sell my mint/1mo old Alpha 50s.

 going to go and pick them up this wkend, as well as ''finally'' hook up my *microrendu/ultracaps*
 and *sonore DC-4 power cable*...will also trial the newl *Roon Labs* *1.3*, too.....esp given I use
 Tidal hifi and now have a microrendu....made for one another.
 ..might splurge for *Roon's $478 unlimited lifetime membership* after my 1-2 mo trial ends.
 anyone done this? and feel its offering good bang for buck so far?


----------



## canali

well i just did some experimenting....bought the larger* FocalAlpha 65s* but quickly sent them back.
 imo they're big for me at desktop,despite being on stands...sounded a bit boomy in my small room, even.
 back to *Focal Alpha 50*s..
  
 then i ordered a *Naim Muso*....heard so much about it....just hooked it up...sure
 it sounds good...but not $140R*oon labs.*..and the lack of 2.0 i was warned about.
 the Naim was like ''SD''...going back to my Focals/microrendu/ultracaps/Roon
 (which the Muso does NOT accept)
 sounded like ''HD'' if i can use such a term, just to give you an idea.
 guess it makes those French darliings even more worth keeping...punchy dynamic little babies.


----------



## Lord Raven

I just read the 17 pages and I am still clueless!


----------



## theveterans

canali said:


> well i just did some experimenting....bought the larger* FocalAlpha 65s* but quickly sent them back.
> imo they're big for me at desktop,despite being on stands...sounded a bit boomy in my small room, even.
> back to *Focal Alpha 50*s..
> 
> ...


 
  
 That sucks that your room doesn't cooperate with the 6.5" woofers. Fortunately for mine, there is only slight resonance in the bass, but they don't bleed to the mids or sound unnatural or sound prominent. Or maybe you just prefer the absolute flat response in the bass
  
 The big benefit though is that I don't need a subwoofer for 99% of the songs out there since 6.5" woofers can reproduce down to 35Hz without sounding too weak.


----------



## canali (Apr 26, 2017)

theveterans said:


> That sucks that your room doesn't cooperate with the 6.5" woofers. Fortunately for mine, there is only slight resonance in the bass, but they don't bleed to the mids or sound unnatural or sound prominent. Or maybe you just prefer the absolute flat response in the bass
> 
> The big benefit though is that I don't need a subwoofer for 99% of the songs out there since 6.5" woofers can reproduce down to 35Hz without sounding too weak.


 
 yeah the room is too small..but for the music i listen to they're fine for 90%...i don't listen to most where you'll need that mid 30s Hz.
 was listening to some Deadmau5, Bowie's Lazurus and Beyonce's Lemonade, with their deep bass tracks...sounds fine on the 50s.


----------



## canali

thinking of upgrading my focal alpha 50s....any thoughts? there is the new focal shape series (replacing cms series)
3 way....then genelec g series (prob 3 interests me)...just seeking even better, more focused, detailed sound with good bass slam.
...will upgrade micro idsd to a yiggy or hugo 2


----------



## theveterans

canali said:


> thinking of upgrading my focal alpha 50s....any thoughts? there is the new focal shape series (replacing cms series)
> 3 way....then genelec g series (prob 3 interests me)...just seeking even better, more focused, detailed sound with good bass slam.
> ...will upgrade micro idsd to a yiggy or hugo 2



Adam S2X as an upgrade perhaps along with Hugo 2 or DAVE (preowned)


----------



## cheungtsw

Dont get Scansonic S5 Active.  Recently bought 1 pair.  The 3.5mm port is swapped left/right (The speaker is designed to have the powered one on the left so if you swap the position of the speakers to fix the 3.5mm port problem, the "balance" button would be swapped). 

Had contacted the manufacturer and he wouldnt give a damn.


----------



## thasneakershop

cheungtsw said:


> Dont get Scansonic S5 Active.  Recently bought 1 pair.  The 3.5mm port is swapped left/right (The speaker is designed to have the powered one on the left so if you swap the position of the speakers to fix the 3.5mm port problem, the "balance" button would be swapped).
> 
> Had contacted the manufacturer and he wouldnt give a damn.


don't they have warranty


----------



## cheungtsw

It is a design issue.  All the new one @ the stores have the same issues.

I had emailed the manufacturer and they wont care less so good luck if you buy their products.


----------



## Whazzzup

Kef 300A


----------



## Dragonix jin

Get KEF X300 !!! totally worth it!!

i tried my friend swan and the kef is totally on a different league

better soundstage and more accurate sounds

i am saving to get the LS50 Wireless that just launched


----------



## canali (Jun 3, 2017)

Dragonix jin said:


> Get KEF X300 !!! totally worth it!!
> 
> i tried my friend swan and the kef is totally on a different league
> 
> ...



i heard those kef ws ls50...must say i wasn't that impressed.
maybe the room facing the room was too open...also untreated.

i am looking at some dynaudio xeo 2 or xeo 4...or other.


----------



## JSands82

I am currently using the Polk RTi A1,  and they sound amazing.  I have a small sony receiver powered to them hooked up via HDMI or Optical connection to my rig.


----------



## HiCZoK

Anyone have mackie cr3?
I love these speakers and have them for few months now. They look perfect on desk, sound fantastic and are just super convenient just to use with e10k. I don't even feel a need for subwoofer, cause there is plent of bass as it is!

Anyway - besides me recommending them I wanted to ask, if people are also turning them off with switch on the back instead of only using switch in volume knob?
They electrically buzz when volume switch is turned off but back switch is on. Once the back switch is "switched off" the buzzing stops. It's not audible in audio during use at all but I am just wondering if the amp inside can fry or somehow damage?


----------



## Digitalis (Jul 4, 2017)

canali said:


> i heard those kef ws ls50...must say i wasn't that impressed.



I wasn't impressed by Kef's sub 2K 2 way speakers either - having a tweeter in a coaxial arrangement like that looks like a bad idea, you would have major issues with diffraction especially with the woofer fapping about. If you have a subwoofer they would be passable at high volumes with a higher crossover around 90~80hz. They would be great for near-field I suspect...look elsewhere if you want speakers for HT applications.



HiCZoK said:


> Anyone have mackie cr3?



I looked at these but quickly dismissed them due to (1) the first order crossover (2) below par build quality (3) they have an aggressive mid-bass hump around 150~200Hz. They are advertised as studio monitors: due to their lack of regard for linearity, woe be to the musician who uses mackie CR3's for that purpose.

JBL LS305's are still the best choice for out of the box perfection when it comes to powered speakers on a budget.


----------



## justhavingfun

It seems like there are many fine speakers that can be used for computer desktop speaker duty. I mainly use my headphone rigs when I am at the computer desk, mainly due to quality computer desktop speakers are difficult find when you consider cost, size and sound quality. Yes you can spend very large sum of money to obtain those mega bucks studio monitors and such but when I wanted to listen to music little more critically I use my main two channel stereo setup, not in my computer desk. I think I find the perfect balance to fit my needs for computer desktop speaker duty. I recently had a chance to bought a pair of used powered speaker Airmotive 4 (older pair not the new one) for very decent price. My audio chains are: computer Windows 10 desktop or Teac CD player PD-H300mkIII > Emotiva Stealth DC-1>Airmotive 4 (using balanced cables). What a wonderful sounding set of speakers for the near-field listening. I listen this setup in very low volume and it gives me everything what I need for desktop duty. Currently I am listening to BB King blue CD "Blues On The Bayou" encoded in FLAC file to the hard drive. Nice balanced sound from surprisingly deep bass note to sparkling high notes with wonderful mellow voice of BB King and his guitar solos. I just received the Airmotive 4 today and quickly set it up and been listening to the music ever since. Finally my headphones and my head will get some rest while I enjoy this speakers. It is little too early to predict but as far as I know, my search for suitable computer desktop speakers are over. Of course there are much better desktop speakers out there but for my current need, this will fit nicely.


----------



## Pharmaboy

justhavingfun said:


> It seems like there are many fine speakers that can be used for computer desktop speaker duty. I mainly use my headphone rigs when I am at the computer desk, mainly due to quality computer desktop speakers are difficult find when you consider cost, size and sound quality. Yes you can spend very large sum of money to obtain those mega bucks studio monitors and such but when I wanted to listen to music little more critically I use my main two channel stereo setup, not in my computer desk. I think I find the perfect balance to fit my needs for computer desktop speaker duty. I recently had a chance to bought a pair of used powered speaker Airmotive 4 (older pair not the new one) for very decent price. My audio chains are: computer Windows 10 desktop or Teac CD player PD-H300mkIII > Emotiva Stealth DC-1>Airmotive 4 (using balanced cables). What a wonderful sounding set of speakers for the near-field listening. I listen this setup in very low volume and it gives me everything what I need for desktop duty. Currently I am listening to BB King blue CD "Blues On The Bayou" encoded in FLAC file to the hard drive. Nice balanced sound from surprisingly deep bass note to sparkling high notes with wonderful mellow voice of BB King and his guitar solos. I just received the Airmotive 4 today and quickly set it up and been listening to the music ever since. Finally my headphones and my head will get some rest while I enjoy this speakers. It is little too early to predict but as far as I know, my search for suitable computer desktop speakers are over. Of course there are much better desktop speakers out there but for my current need, this will fit nicely.



I did many months of research on powered monitors that also happen to sound good. That's surprisingly hard to suss out...many users of powered monitors--being studio pros--are less concerned with how they sound, than how they function in making of audio "mixes," so the great majority of user comments for powered monitors talk about literally anything/everything EXCEPT how they sound (!?!).

I compiled detailed info on a number of powered monitors. My physical criteria included at least a 6" woofer and a depth no more than 11.5". Many models that interested me greatly were just too large for the desktop.

I ended up with ZenPro modded Yamaha HS7s. Not perfect...there are upper midrange tonality issues, though not fatal/impossible to live with. These monitors do a great many things very well indeed.

If anyone is interested in this topic, I can list some of the powered monitors that interested me most.

BTW, I was very interested in the AirMotiv 6's, but they were too large/deep for my desktop. Quite a few powered monitors have heil tweeters, but few are said to sound musical; this was one of the few.


----------



## theveterans

Pharmaboy said:


> I ended up with ZenPro modded Yamaha HS7s. Not perfect...there are upper midrange tonality issues, though not fatal/impossible to live with. These monitors do a great many things very well indeed.
> 
> If anyone is interested in this topic, I can list some of the powered monitors that interested me most.
> 
> BTW, I was very interested in the AirMotiv 6's, but they were too large/deep for my desktop. Quite a few powered monitors have heil tweeters, but few are said to sound musical; this was one of the few.



What kind of upper mid-range tonality issues are you having with the HS7? My stock HS7s never sounded "unnatural", "thin", "harsh", "metallic" in any of the upper midrange frequency range. I find it sounding just right to my ears. Maybe it's my tube preamp providing less edginess in the upper mids.


----------



## justhavingfun

One of the main reason that I didn't consider bigger sized Airmotive 5,6 were due to their physical size which will dominate my desktop space. I didn't want my desktop space totally dominated by sheer size of these speakers. Yamaha HS7 seems very popular for computer speaker duty and I was seriously considered Audioengine A5+ but I saw the "for sale" Airmotive 4 and I took the chance and it turned out to be very good fit for my need. It gets plenty loud enough with clean sound for nearfield listening for sure and it has balanced input which I like.


----------



## Pharmaboy

I've heard this quality of the midrange, particularly upper midrange, described as "shouty," and that's as good a description of it as anything. 

The good news is that far more audio information is reproduced by the midrange of the HS7 than I've heard before in powered speakers. We've all heard cheap powered speakers, also cheap bookshelf speakers (2-way designs). None of that prepared me for what the HS7's do in the midrange. It's mostly a good thing...more information = more clarity and more instrumental timbre/tonality being reproduced (I've heard a comparable effect from high-quality headphones, where the midrange becomes a large, lively, resonant space). Another benefit of this midrange "presence" is that low-volume listening (90% of what I do in home office) is far clearer and more "present" than speakers I've used before on the desktop. I'm not used to be ably to hear music so clearly, even at very low volume (and now in the warm months, with a somewhat muted air conditioner adding its white noise overlay).

The downside is that when I crank the volume, the midrange quickly becomes hard to take...drawing attention to itself. It's not quite as simple as sounding "thin," or "glary" (I've had components that were outright bright from lower midrange all the way--but that's not really the issue here). It's as if a plateau of midrange frequencies is somewhat elevated (3-6 dB? just guessing). It's broad & shallow enough to not sound like a "treble spike" (I've heard that before, and it's not that).

I have a very complicated desktop system, which means I've been able to test the sound of the HS7s with a variety of sources (different DACs; different HP amp/preamps) and wiring configurations. This "shouty" sound is present at loud volumes in all connection schemes & with all components (to varying degrees). I heard it the least when I directly connected the balanced outputs of my Violectric V281 to the inputs of the HS7's. The sound out of the HS7s was slightly more relaxed and refined sounding that way at all volumes, but still could get edgy at loud volumes.

I used the HF setting on the back of each HS7 to drop the level from 2 kHz on up by 2 dB. That helped somewhat--but the plateau of elevated sound in the midrange remains, just being 2 dB lower now in comparison to the lows.

Net/net, the good outweighs the bad. It doesn't hurt that these speakers are very good looking IMO and fit my desktop so well. But still, when I'm in the mood to really crank it, I have to be careful.

PS: a tube preamp may well ameliorate this effect, either by altering tonality, or by distracting from it via heightendd soundstaging in the midrange (or both).

As for your HS7s sounding just right to you, we can never underestimate the magnitude of personal differences. Other might hear my system and be in heaven, even at the higher volumes. Different people show differing sensitivity to tonal anomalies. I'm very averse to elevated treble, for example; and many people welcome it.


----------



## theveterans

Thanks for your detailed description sir. I have my HF dropped by 2db on treble as well and maybe depending on our hearing, the same tone might sound different from one person and the other. My ears are a bit off center with the tweeters and that's probably why I don't perceive that shouty upper mids. My tube preamp definitely increased the soundstage as if it sounds mellower on some songs and shoutier on some songs as well, but overall I prefer the spatial effect of the tubes compared to the more direct sound of the solid state preamp / passive preamp.


----------



## Pharmaboy

theveterans said:


> Thanks for your detailed description sir. I have my HF dropped by 2db on treble as well and maybe depending on our hearing, the same tone might sound different from one person and the other. My ears are a bit off center with the tweeters and that's probably why I don't perceive that shouty upper mids. My tube preamp definitely increased the soundstage as if it sounds mellower on some songs and shoutier on some songs as well, but overall I prefer the spatial effect of the tubes compared to the more direct sound of the solid state preamp / passive preamp.



Yes, tubes are quite awesome for subtly shaping the tonal response and soundstaging of any audio system. Years ago I had all-tube preamp + amps for my big living room system; the only SS was the 200 wpc amp that drove the subs. The combination of all those tubes (good, well-designed gear) + very good-sounding speakers was pretty magical. All the notes from the upper bass on up had a 3D/"reach out and touch them" quality.

But on the desktop (in a space-constrained home office), I've been reluctant to get tubed devices--not least for the preamp/line out duties, where tubes would do the most good. That's because I have the system on 12+ hrs/day, making tubes iffy in terms of lifespan...not to mention heat (already a lot of gear here, so more load for the AC).

2 points I forgot to make last night re sound of the HS7s:

My HS7s are not stock. They're ZenPro modded new HS7s. I certainly wouldn't expect these mods to harm their sound--quite the opposite. Plus, the things they did (recap or bypass capacitors w/better ones; replaced opamps w/better ones; disconnect the electronic limiter circult for midrange) are the kind of straight-ahead sound improvement tactics that routinely improve sound. The few comments I read from owners of these modded HS7s or HS8s (and the 1-2 comments about before & after sound) were all positive.
And that "shouty" quality in the midrange that I spoke of is only partially a tonal phenomenon. There's also a quality of enhanced/excessive soundstaging in that same raised plateau of upper midrange frequencies, almost to the point of being echoey or "boomy." This recording-dependent: cuts that have a lot of spatial cues in the midrange tend to exhibit this boomy sound more than those that don't.
It's kind of mystifying, really.

Listening to the HS7s at low volume now (streaming classical from Europe)--and it really sounds great. So it's definitely a mixed bag w/these monitors.


----------



## Nevi

I agree about the Yamahas.
I too have a couple of modded Yamahas HS 7s. I am very satisfied with my little set up. They have a pair of XLR outs that go down into the usual mini jack. When I wanted to buy them I was ready to buy a sub too. But after hearing them in my livingroom, I have forgotten about the sub. Especially after I have used a red Dragonfly infront, I am surpriced how good they sound for the money. As far as I remember they almost reach 40 hz. Thats good enough for me, and especially to the price. They are dirt cheap, also if you decide to get the sub HS 8s. But try them without first. They surpriced me thats for sure.
 There are alot of good advice in this thread. I´m sure you find a great set of speakers.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Nevi said:


> I agree about the Yamahas.
> I too have a couple of modded Yamahas HS 7s. I am very satisfied with my little set up. They have a pair of XLR outs that go down into the usual mini jack. When I wanted to buy them I was ready to buy a sub too. But after hearing them in my livingroom, I have forgotten about the sub. Especially after I have used a red Dragonfly infront, I am surpriced how good they sound for the money. As far as I remember they almost reach 40 hz. Thats good enough for me, and especially to the price. They are dirt cheap, also if you decide to get the sub HS 8s. But try them without first. They surpriced me thats for sure.
> There are alot of good advice in this thread. I´m sure you find a great set of speakers.



How were your HS7s modded, if you don't mind my asking?

As for putting them in the living room--based on my experience burning mine in the garage, I found they sound their absolute best when set up in a more spacious environment than my 13' X 13' home office:

In the garage, the HS7s were ~3 feet from the back wall, radiating outward into a large space (3 car garage w/just 1 car parked).
It was easy to tell they're designed for nearfield listening, by the way the soundfield "locked in" when I approached & got w/in ~4 feet of the speakers
Nevertheless, they sounded very good even farther away
The treble sounded somewhat softer & less incisive in the garage--and that was before I dropped the treble control to -2dB
The bass also sounded rather excellent, as you note. They do go down to the low 40's. The sound is expansive, not especially hard-hitting (no chest thuds), just a nice, realistic wave-front of lower- and mid-bass coming from this 6.5 inch speaker. If these were in a normal sized living room, I could live w/o a sub, for sure.
The cost is relatively cheap, considering the quality you get. And the HS7s are very handsome IMO. I'm sitting 3 ft from them right now...they're quiet as a tomb (zero "self-noise" that I can detect--run from XLR cables as inputs). They are incredibly accurate and good-sounding even at the lowest volumes (I listen to classical music streamed from EU ~12 hrs day, always low volume; only crank them up 2-3X/wk).

They actually don't sound quite as good in my home office as in garage. Part of the reason is no doubt that they're only ~9-10" from back wall (actually a large picture window); and even w/Auralex "Mopads" under them, they're probably reflecting upper midrange energy off my smooth desktop.

Little sonic issues aside, they're obviously keepers.


----------



## theveterans

^ I thought I heard my Stock HS7's down to 30 Hz when I watched dvds and blu-rays @ 90+ dB loudness. When driven heard it does cause a tiny bit of chest thuds at least on my bedroom.


----------



## Nevi

Pharmaboy said:


> How were your HS7s modded, if you don't mind my asking?
> 
> As for putting them in the living room--based on my experience burning mine in the garage, I found they sound their absolute best when set up in a more spacious environment than my 13' X 13' home office:
> 
> ...



I had the Zen modification too. I heard a pair one of my friends had with the mod, and I think they were more clear, especially in the mid register. But I´m an old audio freak, so I couldnt resist to make them better if possible. I heard many good things about that mod, so I simply had to do it. I have the same experience with the size of the room they are in as you. My livingroom have a nize size, and they sounded awesome from the first day, but better after 14 days or so. I have all my settings at zero. Both room control and high trim. I use a B&W sub in my bedroom with a NAD 748v2 and some B&W/Dali speakers, but funny enough (maybe because I sit so close to the Yamahas) I dont think its necesarry with more low end. The Yamahas do a very nice job indeed, and especially considering the price. I remember when I opened the new Yamahas, I could almost see they would sound good the way they were build and the weight. Mine are standing on a computer table that have a thick insulation "carpet" on top. No resonances there. I keep mine too.


----------



## Watzzup

I am planning to upgrade my CPU speaker from four point surround FPS1800 to a better system. Mainly for 70% music and 30% movie. My bedroom is 4m x 3m and it is untreated. I am thinking of getting Yamaha HS8 or HS5 + HS8S or JBL305 + JBL310s. Or is there any other recommendation? Budget around S$500-1000+


----------



## theveterans

HS7 + HS8S is what I use and covers any music and movies you throw at it minus the tactile transducer effect of course


----------



## Nevi

I can subscribe to the Yamaha solution. If you pick HS8, try without a sub. Maybe its not necesarry with the dimensions your room have. Only you can say. IMO the HS8 are quiet potent in the lows.


----------



## Watzzup

There is also promotion at mass drop..Don't think getting sub because it will be way over my budget and my room untreated..So I guess I will get the HS8 and see how...By the way how does it perform for movie without Sub?


----------



## Pharmaboy

Watzzup said:


> I am planning to upgrade my CPU speaker from four point surround FPS1800 to a better system. Mainly for 70% music and 30% movie. My bedroom is 4m x 3m and it is untreated. I am thinking of getting Yamaha HS8 or HS5 + HS8S or JBL305 + JBL310s. Or is there any other recommendation? Budget around S$500-1000+



Your budget barely cover either option you describe: 2 X Yamaha HS8 or HS5 + HS8S sub; or 2 X JBL305s + JBL sub. My vote would be Yamaha, as the monitors seem to have zero, or very low self-noise when driven by XLR cables, and I've heard otherwise about the JBLs, which a lot of people love (but still).

If it were me, I'd get stock HS7s ($699) + a better sub, the SVS SB-1000 (12" driver; $499). You could save a little $$ by buying the HS7s used (they're out there); and buying the sub at the SVS outlet. The Yamaha sub has a different I/O design than the SVS: the Yamaha has unbalanced + balanced input pairs; and 1 balanced output pair. There's no crossover, so you could connect your monitors via XLR cables from the sub, the only drawback being that the monitors are full range + sub. By contrast, the SVS sub has only unbalanced inputs & outputs--but the output pair comes off a 12 dB/octave crossover that cuts out bass frequencies below 80Hz. It works well, but you're limited to unbalanced cables...

I have these monitors + sub, and it's a LOT of good sound for not a lot of money


----------



## theveterans

You can turn off the LFE to the full range speakers with HS8S via the low pass filter. That way, all of the bass goes to the sub. And yes, there is crossover that you can set between 80-120 Hz. You can turn it (crossover) ON or OFF via low pass filter switch on the back. If you will use the speakers on a living room setting, a more powerful sub like the SVS will be a better buy. For a bedroom setting like I do, HS8S is plenty good.


----------



## Watzzup

My budget is actually under SGD..So basically Yamaha HS 8 already $780


----------



## Pharmaboy

Watzzup said:


> My budget is actually under SGD..So basically Yamaha HS 8 already $780



SGD = Singapore Dollar?

Either way, if you go w/HS8s, I kinda doubt you really need a sub. They have been described as bassy, which appeals to me. Wish I could have fit them on this desktop, but those 8" drivers would overload my room, more than likely.


----------



## Watzzup

Pharmaboy said:


> SGD = Singapore Dollar?
> 
> Either way, if you go w/HS8s, I kinda doubt you really need a sub. They have been described as bassy, which appeals to me. Wish I could have fit them on this desktop, but those 8" drivers would overload my room, more than likely.


Yeah...The size is kind of big...Planning to get 150cm long table for my setup.
Getting audio interface.. Scarlett 2i2..Or is there any better recommendation?


----------



## Pharmaboy

Watzzup said:


> Yeah...The size is kind of big...Planning to get 150cm long table for my setup.
> Getting audio interface.. Scarlett 2i2..Or is there any better recommendation?



I have no personal experience w/this audio interface--any audio interface. I never even considered one (even though I needed conversion from unbalanced cables to XLR cables)--because I have separate DAC units that I love the sound of (and audio interfaces typically embed a DAC, which may or may not be bypassable).

So I got a separate unbalanced-to-XLR (and reverse) convertor that studio guys praised for its good sound: the Aphex 124A. Found a cherry/used one on ebay for ~$50 USD shipped.

Just search ebay for Aphex 124A. I got multiple hits on it just now, though I didn't drill down to see which were off-shore vs US.

One consideration you may have if not in US is voltage. All the ones I've seen are 120V.


----------



## MisterMudd

justhavingfun said:


> One of the main reason that I didn't consider bigger sized Airmotive 5,6 were due to their physical size which will dominate my desktop space. I didn't want my desktop space totally dominated by sheer size of these speakers. Yamaha HS7 seems very popular for computer speaker duty and I was seriously considered Audioengine A5+ but I saw the "for sale" Airmotive 4 and I took the chance and it turned out to be very good fit for my need. It gets plenty loud enough with clean sound for nearfield listening for sure and it has balanced input which I like.


S4 is an excellent speaker. I bought mine 2 years ago at the bargain price of $239 and have never looked back. I have listened to other desktop speakers during this time but none seem to compare for me. They originally sold for $399 and the whole line was recently discontinued. They have the larger ones but the S4 is now sold out. I don't see myself ever letting them go. Lucky me!


----------



## justhavingfun

Yes, I am very satisfied with Airmotiv 4 like you. Ever since I installed these speakers, my head and headphones get lots of rest.


----------



## Cry Havoc

Just picked up the JBL SLR305's for $220.  Not bad.jpg.  Looking forward to the upgrade, will report back here with impressions afterward.


----------



## xivlia

i can never seem to enjoy pc audio, so i use my wharfedale diamond 10 series


----------



## Cry Havoc

xivlia said:


> i can never seem to enjoy pc audio, so i use my wharfedale diamond 10 series



I'm anxious to see how the JBL's stack up to my home theater (Mirage OM-12 Omnipolars).


----------



## UntilThen

I love my free Bose Companion 5


----------



## helian

I'm thinking about getting a pair of Pioneer S-DJ50X, but I have no way of listening before buying. Anyone heard these speakers ? How they compare with the Yamaha HS5 ?
They will be used with a Fiio E07K, until I can get a better DAC.


Thanks,


----------



## drtebi

Not sure if that has been mentioned yet but...
The reason why your system sounds different (apart from a rattling problem) is simply the different room.

If your new room has nothing but blank walls, ceiling, and hardwood floors, your room acoustics are just bad. Put a carpet in there, and sound will be better. A big bookshelf filled with books, again better. Thick curtains, better again. Of course there is much more science to that than these simple suggestions, but room acoustics make a huge difference with your sound. $20.000 speakers are not gonna give you audio nirvana if your room is an echo chamber.

Just something to think about...


----------



## nuraman00

For some reason I stopped getting notifications of this thread in March.

I just got a notification yesterday of a new response.

I caught up and read pages 14 - 20 today.

I'm the OP, I ended up sampling the JBL 308 and the Airmotiv 6s.  I couldn't tell either apart on most tracks I tested, so I kept the Airmotiv 6s.  

At some point, I might add a subwoofer or wireless adapter or wireless receiver.  But it's a "nice to have".  For 95% of things, this is pretty good.

https://www.wired.com/2014/08/bluetooth-audio-adapters/


----------



## Pharmaboy

nuraman00 said:


> For some reason I stopped getting notifications of this thread in March.
> 
> I just got a notification yesterday of a new response.
> 
> ...



Welcome back! The Airmotiv 6s were 1 of 2 Heil tweeter designs that really interested me (the other was the Hedd Type 07). Both were a little large for my desk, and the Hedd is kind of expensive. I ended up going w/the ZenPro modded Yamaha HS7s, which have some outstanding pluses & a couple minuses.

If you want to add a really good sub for cheap, try the SVS SB1000 (sealed 12" sub). It's plenty for my 13 X 14 office. It also has a crossover arrangement allowing you to run RCA interconnects to it, then back out to your monitors (which reproduce everything above 80 Hz). It sounds more than good enough to keep me going.

I have a Marchand 2-way crossover here w/adjustable crossover point. One of these days I'll wire that in and see if the SVS sub's crossover was costing me anything sonically. But I've really felt no compulsion to do that...not yet, anyway.


----------



## nuraman00

Pharmaboy said:


> Welcome back! The Airmotiv 6s were 1 of 2 Heil tweeter designs that really interested me (the other was the Hedd Type 07). Both were a little large for my desk, and the Hedd is kind of expensive. I ended up going w/the ZenPro modded Yamaha HS7s, which have some outstanding pluses & a couple minuses.
> 
> If you want to add a really good sub for cheap, try the SVS SB1000 (sealed 12" sub). It's plenty for my 13 X 14 office. It also has a crossover arrangement allowing you to run RCA interconnects to it, then back out to your monitors (which reproduce everything above 80 Hz). It sounds more than good enough to keep me going.
> 
> I have a Marchand 2-way crossover here w/adjustable crossover point. One of these days I'll wire that in and see if the SVS sub's crossover was costing me anything sonically. But I've really felt no compulsion to do that...not yet, anyway.



Thanks for the recommendation.  That subwoofer looks great.  I just don't know if I want to spend $1000 combined on monitors + subwoofer.

Also, when demoing the JBL and the Airmotivs, I started to regret comparing two similar systems.

I wished I had tried one 2.1 system instead, especially because I was coming from a 2.1 system.

This was what was on my radar, at that time.

https://www.chanemusiccinema.com/m50w

Why did Heil tweeter design, and Hedd Type 07 interest you?  I don't know anything about those types, but am interested in why you liked those the best.


----------



## George Taylor

You folks are making me feel inadequate. I've never really felt the need to go to heavily into my sound system on my pc. Well, beyond the amp/headphone thing, that is. I did recently get a pair of Kanto YU2 speakers from Amazon on a warehouse deal for around $150 USD, and I really like them. I did do the subwoofer thing a few years back, but I usually am tight room wise with my desk. I'd rather use the space for a nice monitor.


----------



## theveterans

I invested mine on speakers as they provide a engaging sound than headphones for less


----------



## nuraman00

George Taylor said:


> You folks are making me feel inadequate. I've never really felt the need to go to heavily into my sound system on my pc. Well, beyond the amp/headphone thing, that is. I did recently get a pair of Kanto YU2 speakers from Amazon on a warehouse deal for around $150 USD, and I really like them. I did do the subwoofer thing a few years back, but I usually am tight room wise with my desk. I'd rather use the space for a nice monitor.



If you like them, then that's all that matters.

I'm glad you found something you're happy with.


----------



## Pharmaboy

nuraman00 said:


> Thanks for the recommendation.  That subwoofer looks great.  I just don't know if I want to spend $1000 combined on monitors + subwoofer.
> 
> Also, when demoing the JBL and the Airmotivs, I started to regret comparing two similar systems.
> 
> ...



I know all about HIVI speakers. The powered monitors I had (still have/stored in boxes now) were HIVI/Swan Audio M200 MKIIIs. Very nice sound. 

I wasn't specifically interested in Heil tweeters. Nevertheless, an entire sub-genre of powered studio monitors have been built around these tweeters, now variously called ART tweeters and other things (ie, ADAM Audio, Hedd Audio, Emotiva, etc). In seeking replacements for the Swans, I looked for 3 things:

Monitor dimensions that would fit my desk
Minimum 6" bass/mid-bass unit
And most important, that somewhere in the many user comments (and a few reviews), that actual owners of whatever monitors I chose would describe them as sounding good for music appreciation (as distinguished from the music mixing & mastering these monitors are usually used for).
I read thousands of user comments for dozens & dozens of monitors that interested me. And of all the Heil/ART tweeter-included designs, the Emotiva and Hedd models were more often described as actually sounding good.

By contrast, many other models with those tweeters were fairly often described as being extremely "detailed," "accurate," having "razor-sharp transients," and all the other code-words for BRIGHT.

I ended up w/monitors having trad silk dome tweeters, which all things considered, are lot less likely to make monitors into treble cannons (though it's not impossible--so many studio monitors are described as peaky in upper midrange & treble, kind of merciless).

As for comparing 2 similar systems (JBL 308 and Airmotivs), I kind of admire that you were able to do that. Where I live such a thing is not possible.


----------



## nuraman00

Pharmaboy said:


> I know all about HIVI speakers. The powered monitors I had (still have/stored in boxes now) were HIVI/Swan Audio M200 MKIIIs. Very nice sound.
> 
> I wasn't specifically interested in Heil tweeters. Nevertheless, an entire sub-genre of powered studio monitors have been built around these tweeters, now variously called ART tweeters and other things (ie, ADAM Audio, Hedd Audio, Emotiva, etc). In seeking replacements for the Swans, I looked for 3 things:
> 
> ...



Thanks for sharing.

I had those systems shipped.  Then after trying them out, I returned the ones I didn't want.  

I had both side by side (so all I would have to do is just switch the 3.5mm cable going into my PC sound card).  They took up a lot of desk space, haha.  But it's what I had to do if I wanted to compare 2 things.

If I'm reading this post correctly below, you have the Yamaha HS7?



Pharmaboy said:


> Your budget barely cover either option you describe: 2 X Yamaha HS8 or HS5 + HS8S sub; or 2 X JBL305s + JBL sub. My vote would be Yamaha, as the monitors seem to have zero, or very low self-noise when driven by XLR cables, and I've heard otherwise about the JBLs, which a lot of people love (but still).
> 
> If it were me, I'd get stock HS7s ($699) + a better sub, the SVS SB-1000 (12" driver; $499). You could save a little $$ by buying the HS7s used (they're out there); and buying the sub at the SVS outlet. The Yamaha sub has a different I/O design than the SVS: the Yamaha has unbalanced + balanced input pairs; and 1 balanced output pair. There's no crossover, so you could connect your monitors via XLR cables from the sub, the only drawback being that the monitors are full range + sub. By contrast, the SVS sub has only unbalanced inputs & outputs--but the output pair comes off a 12 dB/octave crossover that cuts out bass frequencies below 80Hz. It works well, but you're limited to unbalanced cables...
> 
> I have these monitors + sub, and it's a LOT of good sound for not a lot of money


----------



## theveterans

Not directed towards me, but he has the ZenPro Mod Yamaha HS7, meaning the amp section is upgraded with audiophile parts and the circuit protection limiter is removed to allow full response of bass and low mid-range.

I do have the stock ones, but never heard the modded one. IMO they sound full to me without hearing any limitations in their response or loudness


----------



## nuraman00

Pharmaboy said:


> I read thousands of user comments for dozens & dozens of monitors that interested me. And of all the Heil/ART tweeter-included designs, the Emotiva and Hedd models were more often described as actually sounding good.
> 
> By contrast, many other models with those tweeters were fairly often described as being extremely "detailed," "accurate," having "razor-sharp transients," and all the other code-words for BRIGHT.



Just curious, is there a track or part of a track that you think would be too bright on other monitors, but sound good to you on the ZenPro Mod HS7?



theveterans said:


> Not directed towards me, but he has the ZenPro Mod Yamaha HS7, meaning the amp section is upgraded with audiophile parts and the circuit protection limiter is removed to allow full response of bass and low mid-range.
> 
> I do have the stock ones, but never heard the modded one. IMO they sound full to me without hearing any limitations in their response or loudness



Thanks for your input too.

What did the circuit protection limiter do?


----------



## theveterans

nuraman00 said:


> What did the circuit protection limiter do?



I really don't know, but according to ZenPro audio, removing it allows the mid-bass and bass region to sound full. Anyways, I don't find the stock speakers lacking in those frequencies 'cause if it did, I would've returned them in a heartbeat.


----------



## Pharmaboy

nuraman00 said:


> If you like them, then that's all that matters.
> 
> I'm glad you found something you're happy with.



+1!!


nuraman00 said:


> Thanks for sharing.
> 
> I had those systems shipped.  Then after trying them out, I returned the ones I didn't want.
> 
> ...



Yup--Yamaha HS7s. But not stock--mine are new & modded by ZenPro. I've never heard stock HS7s, but a few people who've heard them stock vs Zenpro modded said the modded ones sounded better (that's why I ordered them). It added ~100 to the cost, but so far, I'm mostly satisfied.

I'm running them w/balanced input, which is a pain, since I had to research SE-to-balanced converters, then find a used example of the best-reviewed one. Using it adds to wiring complexity, especially in conjunction w/the sub--but it sounds pretty good, so I'm not going to mess w/success.

FYI, I ran the HS7s direct out of the Violectric V281's balanced outputs for a time (w/the sub disconnected), and that's when they sounded their very best.


----------



## Watzzup

If you stay in Singapore, you can get HS8 for 490USD per pair... 
If you stay in US, you had a lot of choices...NHT,KEF,JBL and DFT with better price


----------



## Pharmaboy

nuraman00 said:


> Just curious, is there a track or part of a track that you think would be too bright on other monitors, but sound good to you on the ZenPro Mod HS7?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Somehow I managed to miss this post...a couple recent posts. 

Re this ("is there a track or part of a track that you think would be too bright on other monitors, but sound good to you on the ZenPro Mod HS7?")--hard to directly answer that. The real truth is a little more nuanced:

The Zenpro modded HS7s are "voiced" completely differently from the 2 other pairs of powered monitors I've had (1 was very clear but slightly bright on everything/every volume; the other was less clear, more euphonic/"musical" sounding, but lacking resolution, especially in upper midrange/treble.
My HS7s had this one unusual (to me) quality from the first note I heard on them: there's simply more midrange information coming out of them. The other 2 prs of monitors were 2-way designs, just like the HS7s, and all 2 ways face certain challenges in having a great midrange (which typically is exactly where the crossover between drivers lies...it's easier for 3-ways to have a great midrange). The HS7s just put out a lot of information in the midrange, more than I'd heard before.
The other outstanding thing about them is their extreme clarity at very low volumes (I do 95% of my 12 hrs/day listening at low volume). My other monitors tended to "fall apart" at low volumes and really come alive w/higher volume, but the HS7s are the opposite: their clarity is identical at low & high volumes; same w/their really good dynamics (loud to soft & vice versa). Even at the lowest volumes, I often find myself startled by this or that instrument or voice on the HS7s, and I mean that in a good way. I can actually listen to them at low volume and hear things.
BUT... (isn't there always a fly in the ointment?), at higher volumes some glare & hardness creep in on the HS7s. It's at higher volumes that certain cuts that were borderline bright on the Swans sound outright bright on the HS7s. Not every borderline bright cut sounds bright on the HS7s, which indicated to me that there may be a fairly narrow spike in their upper midrange (just a guess)
In all fairness to the HS7s, there seems to be some kind of burn-in effect still underway, which kind of makes no sense, but I'm actually hearing it. I burned these monitors in a medium to loud volume for 150 hrs in my garage (starting at medium volume and increasing as burn-in commenced)...didn't even try to listen to them seriously until after burnin, which is when the higher volume/brightness anomalies were most apparent. But the other night, months after I first installed them in home office, I got in the mood to crank them--and this time, heard somewhat less brightness, even a high volume. That's not to say these are silky smooth, chill/relaxation monitors--they aren't that (they're very clear & incisive). Still, their sound seems to be slowly changing with time.

One more comment, if  you can stand it. I run these balanced only, but to get a balanced signal, I have to put the RCA output pair through a single-ended-to-balanced convertor that came recommended. However, since I also have an amp w/balanced outputs (V281), once I hooked up its balanced outputs directly to the HS7s, something I can only do by sidelining my sub. Anyway, that was a very interesting experience: I got the best sound I'd yet heard out of the HS7s. Difference were very subtle, but all in the direction of more relaxed, less bright character. I haven't figured out how to make use of this finding, though...


----------



## theveterans

Pharmaboy said:


> BUT... (isn't there always a fly in the ointment?), at higher volumes some glare & hardness creep in on the HS7s. It's at higher volumes that certain cuts that were borderline bright on the Swans sound outright bright on the HS7s. Not every borderline bright cut sounds bright on the HS7s, which indicated to me that there may be a fairly narrow spike in their upper midrange (just a guess)



On my stock HS7s, I hear no glares or brightness on upper mid-range even when I outright listen at 90+ db. Maybe it's just my ears aren't sensitive to upper midrange brightness. I do agree though that the HS7's resolution is far above its asking price. IMO, its mids are on par with the more expensive KEF LS 50. The detail retrieval is so good that I hear music that I've never heard before back when I was using mid-fi headphones like the AKG K712 and Sony MDR-1000X.


----------



## canali

well i'm about to spring for the kef ls50 wls....to replace my naim muso.
might get a kube 2 subwoofer, too...anyone on here have these speakers and care
to give their op?  i'd be using them equally for HT and music listening.
prob would hook up my microrendu (with Roon and Tidal)


----------



## George Taylor

Made a minor step up and figured I might as well share. Was using the Kanto YU2, and was fairly happy with them. Nice size that don't take up a lot of desk space. However lately I had an urge to have speakers with bluetooth. So, after considering a couple of different things, I just took 1 step up to the YU4 instead. Figured if I like the YU2, surely I won't dislike their bigger brother. And I was right. I do not have a sub hooked to them, but they supply ample bass. Tried out the bluetooth and my phone found them immediately. Wish I could say the same for my Fiio DAP. That thing has the worst bluetooth I've encountered. Anyway, got the speakers as a Amazon warehouse special for about $230, usually around $300.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Well, I'm on the verge of a major step up...might as well convey it here:

*1. *For the past 8-9 months, I've been running a pair of Zenpro-modded Yamaha HS7 powered monitors (fed by a balanced cable coming from a single-ended-to-balanced converter, necessary because my whole system is wired single-ended). 
*2. *These monitors are superb for the low-volume listening that I do 95% of the time in home office. They're very clear, accurate-sounding.
*3. *However, when I crank them up, issues happen: these vented monitors are too close to the back wall (by necessity)...so bass can sound tubby. Also, these monitors tend to sound a little "clangy"/"shouty" in the upper midrange, which makes loud-volume listening less than ideal. In all fairness, when I had them burning in (different room with more space between them & back wall), I really didn't hear either issue...

Anyway, for some time I've been scheming how to fit passive speakers + a stereo amp into this space-constrained system. Finally figured out how to do it (I got a high-quality used class D amp, and will place it on its side to save space). All the necessary cables are on order.

Re passive speakers (unlike powered monitors) there are countless passive 2-way designs out there. Most are general audio quality; some are pricey "audiophile"/high-end designs; and a few are accuracy-oriented studio monitors. As usual for speakers these days, most passive 2-ways are vented designs (which I don't want); but a few are sealed designs--which I do want, for better compatibility w/my space-constrained environment.

For some time I've been interested in ATC, the British company. Their powered monitors were too large, expensive & heavy for my desktop. However, they make passive consumer 2-ways, a couple of which have gotten glowing reviews in the high-end audio press years. The ATC consumer model that fits my desktop is the ATC SCM11 version 2. Problem is it costs $2,500 new (!!), too rich for my blood--and only comes up F.S. rarely.

But the "professional" version of this speaker (identical drivers & crossover in a slightly larger, not as pretty cabinet) is the ATC SCM12 Pro. It's a little big for my desktop, but I can make it fit. Just scored a used pair yesterday, arriving this Tuesday. Was really lucky to find them.

I'll have this whole thing wired together mid-week, and very eager to hear what it sounds like. I've never had passive 2-ways in my desktop, only powered ones. This will be an adventure. My goal is to get a passive system that plays just as well @low-volume as the Yamahas, but also sound terrific when cranked.


----------



## Pharmaboy

My new/used pair of ATC SCM12 Pro's showed up today. They appear physically perfect, apart from a couple very minor blemishes that the seller fully disclosed (they're hard to even see). Just to ensure they're in working condition, I wired them up to the amp (Wyred4Sound ST-500, big/powerful class D design) using 14 gauge zipcord for speaker wire & RCA interconnects for input to the amp (will be replaced by Audioquest Type 4 speaker cables + balanced input cables on desktop).

Verrrrry interesting. Only listened 5-10 minutes in a sub-standard environment, but what I heard was rather encouraging. These 2-ways are large, heavy, and can get very big in a hurry when the volume goes up--yet play w/finesse & delicacy at low volumes. The level & quality of bass they put out is surprising. It's a sealed design...I'd forgotten the tight/bouncy bass quality sealed designs do.

Will finally get all necessary cables together next week and install the amp + ATCs on desktop. Fingers crossed that it sounds good there...


----------



## Neyeah (Feb 11, 2018)

Hi Guys,

I am currently using Audio Engine A5+ and just ordered an Audio-GD r2r 11 dac/hphone amp to upgrade over my current CARAT-RUBY

I use k7xx/dt990 for more gaming and music purposes.

If I were to upgrade from audio engine a5+ at about the same price range or around 500-600 usd

What would be best recommended ? I've seen some of the suggestion and there are too many and I am confused.

Also I notice that most of the suggested speakers such as focal alpha 50, etc have different connection than that of audio engine a5+, does it mean all my current cables are not usable ? because I remember spending quite a few $ here n there getting new cables (power cables, usb, left/right speaker connecting cables) instead of the stock from a5+

Would be good to be able to retain and re-use some of these cables which I thought/assume are better than default/stock ?

My current setup + cables are something like this

















https://ibb.co/bJa0vn
https://ibb.co/hNTW1S
https://ibb.co/csJLvn
https://ibb.co/hxA0vn

If so, what set of cables are recommended to get with the new set of recommended speakers ? to connect to my coming r2r 11 then usb to PC.

Adam F5? 
Adam F7?
Etc?

Thanks ~


----------



## Pharmaboy

Neyeah said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I am currently using Audio Engine A5+ and just ordered an Audio-GD r2r 11 dac/hphone amp to upgrade over my current CARAT-RUBY
> 
> ...



I've done SO MUCH research on powered monitors in the past year. Already changed monitors twice, about to do so again. 

Rather than just spew some of what I've learned, it would be much better if you could provide some basic information about you & your system:

*1. What type of sound profile do you like most in audio gear (speakers/monitors in particular)? Examples: *

Highly detailed, resolving, accurate (ie, you like treble & lots of it)
Warm, euphonic, bassy, with enveloping soundstage (ie, you like live acoustic music & wish to recreate that sonic ambience in your system)
Something in between...ie, big/impactful bass; or pure, singing midrange; or airy sparkly treble?
BTW, the fact that you're embarking on the R2R/NOS DAC journey (one I've been on for >1 year) indirectly speaks to your sonic preferences. But I can't take that for granted...​
*2. Do you lots of room on your desktop for bigger monitors, if those turn out to be best for you?

3. How much room do you have between the back of your A5+'s & the back wall?

4. What kind of music do you typically listen to?

5. Loud volume? Medium volume? Low volume?*


----------



## canali (Feb 11, 2018)

Neyeah said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I am currently using Audio Engine A5+ and just ordered an Audio-GD r2r 11 dac/hphone amp to upgrade over my current CARAT-RUBY
> 
> ...



pharmaboy has some good points to ponder before moving onwards.
i had the alpha 50, loved them....
https://www.cnet.com/news/leave-it-...sound-of-desktopcomputer-speakers-up-a-notch/ 
sold them to a sound crew member of Bryan Adams for his own smaller home listening studio.
this said, i'm sure the yammies Y series are good too.
as per cables i used  bluejean LC1 with them (on aurolex mopads) these cables are proven, no bullsh*t, belden quality.
https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/audio/index.htm
i have a pair of mint 8' for sale if you want them, RCA terminated that i used.


----------



## Neyeah (Feb 11, 2018)

Pharmaboy said:


> I've done SO MUCH research on powered monitors in the past year. Already changed monitors twice, about to do so again.
> 
> Rather than just spew some of what I've learned, it would be much better if you could provide some basic information about you & your system:
> 
> ...


Wow that several excellent question, Thank you for that and taking the time.

To be honest I have really liked audio for a while, but remain somehow really clueless on those terms and identifying what I like.

However let me try to answer your question as much as possible

I think I like detail and clarity with strong and solid punchy bass but not like overly earthshaking kind or like all over the place kind. I still cant tell whats too much treble or what’s warm yet.

Haha I kind of jump in the r2r 11 wagon because of too many raving reviews and my current one cant even power my ddt990/k7xx properly though I mostly use the headphones for games. Not even sure if i’d prefer the r2r 11 or nfb 11.28 nv tried both. Kind of a leap of faith.

I definitely listen to music more mid to high volume. Not sure about specific type, but Songs I listen to are mostly the updated list from itunes (haha). Example Songs from calvin harris/marshmellow/alanwalker to bruno mars.
Also most of my songs are purchased from itunes are they good enough ? 

Sometimes to “act” like an audiophile when testing my gears then i put on norah jones or michael buble and hotel california hahaha thats the best i got...

The nxt thing I am getting asap are speaker stands. I think i have to try with my a5+ off the table and a more proper positioning & height. Space is not an issue. I can move my table for sure to give more spaceX However I am facing a window where my table is placed. Rooms about 6x6m or almost a square.

So bigger monitor sure if within the same price budget ? Kind of looking at adam f7 now.. in my country Indonesia its about 750-900 usd for a pair. 

Also what would be a reasonable amount of money or range to spend for speaker/dac that I am looking on cables ? Power cables ? The rca/xlr to connect my speaker to the dac/amp. Etc.


----------



## theveterans

With studio monitor speakers, I believe that they all sound great at their price points IMO. I listen to my Yamaha HS7 at 80-90 decibels A weighted and it’s fine for most songs but can get sibilant with poorly mastered tracks at high volumes. IMO the Yamaha HS7s are at the very most slightly brighter than neutral and since you prefer the R2R sound, you might want to go with Adam F7/AX7 since they’re a shade warmer than Yamahas. Tonality wise, I prefer the brighter Yamahas though. Detail retrieval is equal for both and IMO same level as KEF LS50 whether you go with Focal, Yamaha or Adam


----------



## Pharmaboy

OK, got it. Some of the better powered monitor options work only with (or best with) balanced cabling (ie, my Zenpro modded Yamaha HS7s; anything from JBL), so we'll leave those aside for now.

Sounds like the *Adam F7* is a very rationale option, given everything you say. Many people like them a lot (as well as their more upscale "X" brothers). Their AMT tweeter is said to have greater detail & wider dispersion than conventional silk or metal-dome tweeters. Some say it can sound a little bright on some music, but there are level controls that can tame that.

You might be able to get deals on the* Focal Alpha 65s* w/6.5" mid/woofer and 1" metal-dome tweeter (example URL below)--Focal has discontinued the 65s & their smaller model, the 50s, and current inventory is selling off. If you look hard, you might be able to score the Alpha 65s new for ~$600:
https://www.thomann.de/gb/focal_alpha_65.htm?ref=search_rslt_alpha+65_337430_0

A powered monitor that interested me, but was too large for my desktop was the *Mackie XR634*. I liked the fact that though it's a bass reflex design, it's not actually ported; the "reflex" part is accomplished by a passive driver positioned against the back wall of the speaker. These are within your price range:
https://www.amazon.com/Mackie-XR624-Channel-Studio-Monitor/dp/B01M07HYI4

_(any of these 3 would almost certainly represent quite substantial sonic upgrade over the Audio Engines)_

It's well above your price range, but the *Hedd Type 07* is a powered monitor that really attracted me. It's a little too large for my desktop, but I liked what people said about its version of the ART tweeter: https://www.thomann.de/gb/hedd_type_07.htm?ref=search_rslt_Hedd+type+07_396315_0

Re RCA cabling, I can recommend 2 low-cost options that will sound pretty good:

*Signal Cable Analog 2:* I have 4-5 pairs of these inexpensive but good sounding interconnects in my system. You can get an 8 ft pair for under $100, quite a bargain: http://signalcable.com/analogtwo.html
*Ghent Audio:* I have multiple headphone cables from Ghent Audio and very much like their quality construction & sound. The prices can't be beat. I haven't heard their RCA cables, but have no reason to think they'd be any different from the headphone cabling. There are multiple RCA options, all costing under $50 for 6-8' lengths. Here's an example: http://www.ghentaudio.com/part/a01.html
Happy (audio) hunting!


----------



## aWildSalmon

Bose Companion 5s


----------



## Neyeah (Feb 11, 2018)

Pharmaboy said:


> OK, got it. Some of the better powered monitor options work only with (or best with) balanced cabling (ie, my Zenpro modded Yamaha HS7s; anything from JBL), so we'll leave those aside for now.
> 
> Sounds like the *Adam F7* is a very rationale option, given everything you say. Many people like them a lot (as well as their more upscale "X" brothers). Their AMT tweeter is said to have greater detail & wider dispersion than conventional silk or metal-dome tweeters. Some say it can sound a little bright on some music, but there are level controls that can tame that.
> 
> ...


Seems like its down to Adam F7 vs Mackie XR634 vs Focal Alpha 65s(checking price in my country)

Also for these speakers they are unlike my A5+, I have no need to connect left and right speaker yes ? (those cables are not needed yea ?) I just need to connect both speakers to the r2r 11 then r2r 11 to PC/headphone yes?

I am confused with this unbalance in and balanced input in these speakers. is balanced in = XLR male ?, unbalanced in = RCA male ? whats the difference ? is it by preferance or is there a consensus on which is better ?

if its balance input, so the cables I should get is it RCA male to XLR male(if i'm even talking the right thing) from speaker to the r2r 11, Am I right ?

if its unbalance input standard RCA cable (http://signalcable.com/images/AnalogTwo-B.jpg) ?

also notice a current direction for the ghentaudio, does it matter for other cables which direction is plugged from speaker to the dac/amp ?

Currently I just realised i'm using Voodoo Opus 1 Rca Cables, was recommended by the store owner when I got my A5+, he recommended me the speaker-speaker nanotech sp#79 mk-2 cable, voodoo usb cable and some random power cable as well. (any of these re-usable for new speaker + r2r 11?)

Is the speaker power cable stock good enough or is it worth to get a new one as well within reasonable price ?

Sorry for more questions and a lil out of topic as I have little to non technical knowledge on these things.

Thank you all for the time in replying


----------



## Pharmaboy

Sorry--I was less than exact about hooking up these various powered monitors.

1st, you will need a pair of RCA cables (aka "interconnect cable") to attach to the powered monitors. Typically 1 side of the interconnect pair goes to one speaker, and the other side goes to the other speaker (RCA interconnects being 2 physically separate cables representing Left & Right channel). These cables would be plugged into the 2 RCA output connectors on the Audio GD R2R11, then go to the single RCA input jack (or in case of Mackie, single TRS 1/4" jack) on the back of each monitor.

2nd: if your Audio Engine speakers use an "umbliical cable" to connect one to the other, then yes, with any of the 3 new monitors I recommend, that cable would be irrelevant, since these monitors pairs do not connect together (ie, each one has its own amplifiers & crossover).

Re balanced vs single-ended cabling: This is an insanely complicated topic. I'm trying to not get into that here...instead, trying to keep your cabling in the single-ended/unbalanced realm because your sources don't have balanced outputs. If they did, then balanced cabling between source & 2 X powered monitors might be preferable for technical reasons--but it's a moot point since you don't have balanced outputs to work with. Please note that all 3 of these powered monitor brands are OK with use of unbalanced cabling to their monitors. It's in the manual for each.

Re "directionality" of cabling, this is actually quite controversial. Some here believe that the mfr's recommendations for direction of cabling (typically make the arrow on the cable point at the "load" [each monitor] and away from the "source" [R2R11]); others believe that's insane and you can run any cable in any direction. I usually start by doing what the mfr advises.

And re "speaker cables," these are not relevant in a setup using 2 powered monitors, as I'm recommending here. True speaker cables only matter when the monitors are passive (ie, no power built into each) and must be powered by a standalone amplifier. Then, and only then, are speaker cables used.

For you w/any of these 3 models of powered monitors--it's RCA cabling all the way.

As for specific connection tips on each speaker...

*Mackie HR624: *Per the manual, these have a 3-pin XLR input + a 1/4" TRS (ie, non-balanced input jack on the back of each monitor. For your purposes, you could use a standard RCA interconnect cable running from the R2R11 to each monitor; then slip on an RCA-to-TRS (1/4") adapter on the RCA jack before inserting into the 1/4" TRS input. I used these adapters for several years. They are cheap and effective.
http://mackie.com/sites/default/files/PRODUCT RESOURCES/MANUALS/Owners_Manuals/XR_Series_OM.pdf

*Focal Alpha 65:* It's even easier w/the Focal, since it has an RCA input jack on the back of each speaker. There is a sensitivity switch (0 dB to +6 dB) associated with the input jacks. The manual advises you to start out w/this switch at the 0 dB position and adjust as needed (pg 16):
https://www.focal.com/sites/www.foc...talog/document/alpha-user_manual_fr_en_es.pdf

*Adam F7: *Again, this one is easy because an RCA input jack is provided on the back of each monitor.
https://www.adam-audio.com/content/uploads/2016/11/adam-audio-user-manual-f-series-en-de-cn.pdf


----------



## techtonic

I've listened to and owned many different 2.0 speakers from 3" to 5" and size made the biggest difference. Even the low priced LSR305 sounded good compared to expensive same sized ones such as the KEF LS50W. Maybe I'm not that picky but the differences were not massive. When you start reaching above consumer crap, you start paying a lot more for a little better in most cases. This has been my experience with any type of audio equipment.

With audio, there's really no substitute for listening no matter how people describe imaging, separation, brightness, etc. These are often generalized, not measured, and possibly psychoacoustic. Go to Guitar Center or your local boutique audio shop and hear a few. Use people's recommendations as starting point for research but never trust anyone but your own ears. That said, if you can hear Swan M200 MKIII, do it. They sound better than the Audioengine A5+ to me but again, wasn't massive.


----------



## Pharmaboy

My 2nd pair of powered speakers was the Swan M200 MKIIIs (after a decade w/a 2.1 NHT system). I had searched a long time for powered speakers anybody said sounded good (most powered speakers/monitors are used by music professionals whose standards are quite different from music appreciation types like me)...and that led to the Swans

I really liked the Swans. They're inexpensive, in speaker terms; attractively built; and sound pretty good. There are things they don't do all that well (spacious/airy treble; soundstaging; deep bass; same quality at low volume as at higher volumes), but what they do is pretty musical overall.

However, I slowly realized I wanted a bigger mid/woofer driver in whatever powered speakers I had--to get more oomph in upper bass/lower midrange  area, before the handoff @80 Hz to the subwoofer (SVS SB1000). The Swans have a 5.25" woofer, and I wanted at least 6". To make things more interesting, I have space limitations on my desktop (particularly depth) that make monitors/speakers deeper than ~11" impractical. Since powered speakers/monitors have built-in electronics, they usually are deeper than passive designs. Problems, problems...

That commenced another lengthy search. As usual, the hardest part was finding anyone who used a given pair of powered speakers/monitors to listen to music (vs mixing music). After collecting information, reviews, and user comments on dozens of potential candidates, I ended up ordering the Zenpro modded Yamaha HS7s, which I've been using since summer of 2017.

The HS7s are a big step up from the Swans in looks, size, power, and (in certain ways) sound. They're also a PITA because the mfr strongly recommends using balanced input signals to power them. That meant getting the best single-ended to balanced converter I could find, which turned out to be easier than it sounds. The HS7's have rather excellent bass for their size (they can be used quite effectively sans sub), and are superb at reproducing music at low volume (most of my listening is at relatively low "background" volumes in home office). However, when I crank them up, tonality problems creep in: primarly a "clangy"/slightly "shouty" quality in upper midrange w/some brightness; and a thickened bass register due to the port being too close to back wall. They actually sounded better in every way when I initially burned them in (in the garage) w/plenty of space in front of & behind them. My desktop environment doesn't allow them to sound their best.

They're really good monitors. But the search goes on. Decided to return to passive speakers, after decades away from them. Another long period of research ensued, not just for speakers, but also for an amp that can fit the desktop. And there are many more passive speakers to consider than there were powered monitors. When one considers passives, the entire "audiophile" speaker market beckons. After deliberation, I decided a sealed design (vs the usual bass reflex design) would work better on my desktop by a more peaceful coexistence with the backwall of my office. 

Finally ended up getting a pair of ATC SCM12 Pros. I've been eager to hear ATCs for a long time, but their powered monitors were huge and expensive. Suddenly, a relatively affordable used pair of these passive ATC monitors fell into my lap. I had them in a separate room, hooked up to the used class D amp I got (Wyred4Sound ST-500), and they sounded quite good. Refined, lots of detail w/o brightness, and excellent bass (in fact, shockingly good bass). As usual, the real test will come when all this hardware gets wired into my desktop system.

All the speakers/monitors mentioned in this post and other recent ones here are either ones I've heard & liked (Swans, Yamaha HS7s, ATCs) or read many good comments about. Just goes to show that in audio, it's the journey, not the destination.


----------



## Neyeah

Pharmaboy said:


> Sorry--I was less than exact about hooking up these various powered monitors.
> 
> 1st, you will need a pair of RCA cables (aka "interconnect cable") to attach to the powered monitors. Typically 1 side of the interconnect pair goes to one speaker, and the other side goes to the other speaker (RCA interconnects being 2 physically separate cables representing Left & Right channel). These cables would be plugged into the 2 RCA output connectors on the Audio GD R2R11, then go to the single RCA input jack (or in case of Mackie, single TRS 1/4" jack) on the back of each monitor.
> 
> ...



Thank you for the clarification. 

Also compared to a5+ which only have 1 power cable.
Any of these new monitors are using 1 power cable each right ?

Also for dekstop listening would a subwoofer be recommended for this setup ?

If with subwoofer, how would the connection go ? speaker -> sub - > dac - > pc ?


----------



## Pharmaboy

Yes--for each of the 3 powered monitor brands I recommended, there is 1 power cord per monitor (ie, each monitor has its own amplifier built-in).

Subwoofers are tricky. Coming back to your listening preferences: are you accustomed to listening w/a sub? Do you have one w/the A5+s?* If yes to either question, does your desktop environment accomodate subs, in terms of space & distance of cabling? 

*If you have an AudioEngine sub, it only partially solves the sub issues mentioned below (ie, it has an output RCA jack--pair--but no crossover)​
I have a single sub, which works well in my small home office w/space constraints. I would happily install a 2nd sub if their was room, but there isn't.

Assuming you want a sub, the issues of wiring & how to set crossovers come up. Strap in...more complexity:

*WIRING: *None of these 3 powered monitor brands allow for looping out of an RCA cable from the monitor to a subwoofer. That means you have to somehow get at least 1 RCA cable to the sub, in addition to the RCA pair that go from your headphone amp/preamp to the monitors themselves. This gets tricky--where does a 3rd RCA line come from, if not the amp/preamp (see solution below).

*CROSSOVERS: *While you can run the powered monitors "full-range" along w/a sub (ie, no attenuation of bass frequencies on the monitors), the sonic results are usually pretty bad. I've done this & don't recommend it. You tend to get a thickening of bass below ~80 Hz, or whatever upper frequency limit is set on the sub, because the 2 powered monitors + sub are reproducing the same bass frequencies. The other problem with that is that when you somehow relieve the powered monitors of bass reproduction (again, below 80 Hz, for purposes of discussion), this frees up amplifier headroom & current for all the remaining frequencies, and the sound may slightly improve (powered monitors put out the most power & experience the most electronic "stress" when reproducing the lowest bass notes they're capable of). This all points to somehow putting a crossover in the system to divide frequencies, with everything above 80 Hz going to the powered monitors; and everything below 80 Hz going to the sub.

It is possible to purchase a high-quality separate crossover to do all this (I have one), but the cost & complexity get kind of crazy. For the moment, I'll focus on a subwoofer solves both the wiring & crossover problems all by themselves: the SVS SB1000 (the one I have).
https://www.svsound.com/products/sb-1000

This is a relatively inexpensive ($499), small, high-quality sub. It's perfect for my desktop environment. It's a sealed design, not ported, which usually produces the best music listening results (the most natural, non-hyped bass, plenty deep for music). People who want to use their sub for movie soundtracks/TV watching may prefer the ported version, but it's larger and typically doesn't repro music with quite as much finesse.

But the main characteristic I want to point out is how the SB-1000 handles wiring & crossover:

It is designed to accept the RCA output pair directly from your amp/preamp
It has a built-in crossover set at 80 Hz (12 dB/octave drop in frequencies above 80 Hz)
It has an RCA output jack that outputs all frequencies above 80 Hz to your powered monitors--again, with 1 of the RCA output cables going to each monitor
Total cost & complexity (beyond cost of sub itself): you'll need 2 fairly long RCA cable pairs, not just one, to connect to your powered monitors
The SB-1000 is "old-school" in terms of settings--no cellphone app, no room correction. Just get down on hands & knees; fiddle w/level & other settings; then listen to see if it sound good


----------



## Neyeah (Feb 12, 2018)

Pharmaboy said:


> Yes--for each of the 3 powered monitor brands I recommended, there is 1 power cord per monitor (ie, each monitor has its own amplifier built-in).
> 
> Subwoofers are tricky. Coming back to your listening preferences: are you accustomed to listening w/a sub? Do you have one w/the A5+s?* If yes to either question, does your desktop environment accomodate subs, in terms of space & distance of cabling?
> 
> ...



Let me share my room layout and setup if you don't mind.
Haha please ignore my mess ! haha kind of just moved back to Indonesia not long

https://ibb.co/hO44O7 back of table
https://ibb.co/e1uSbS
https://ibb.co/c967bS

To answer your question no, I do not use a sub currently. But i am so curious and wanting to try having a sub. With my room layout/space do you think a sub is recommended ?

I have no idea of any sub except was looking at adam S7 until your recommendation of SB-1000 earlier.

By the way I just got back a quotation on
(All prices for a pair)

Focal Alpha 65 in my country its crazy, RP 19.971.000 = USD 1467
Mackie HR624 = 18,300,000 = USD 1346
Mackie HR824 = 22,600,000 = USD 1663
Adam F7 = 12,730,000 = USD 936
one seller selling at USD = 699 (but checking stock)

Can't find Airmotive 6s price

Can't find SBS1000 as well for now.

For pricing of course i love F7 the most LOL

Though honestly at a5+ now listening to my kind of music, charlie puth etc etc.. Bass seems solid enough just curious/want that additional omph by abit = ) though iseems like a sub is going to add a substantial amount of cost dang~

I lost count the number of RCA cable i need from your explanation with sb-1000 hahaha


----------



## Pharmaboy

Wow--the pricing on those 3 monitors is insane. Indonesia might be the best place of all, but apparently audio isn't one of its high points.

You certainly could keep the A5+s and just add a sub. It looks like the SVS SB-1000 would fit behind the left side of your desk (facing into the center). That would be an interesting experiment... The SB-1000 would give way better quality than Audio Engine's ported 8" sub, plus it allows crossover-filtered output to the monitors, which the AE sub does not (it allows RCA outs to the sub, but they're not crossover-filtered).

Reminder about cabling: w/the SB-1000 used the way I use it, to get a crossover-filtered output the monitors, you would need 2 RCA interconnect pairs:

1st pair goes from L+R RCA outputs of R2R11 to the L+R RCA inputs of SB-1000
2nd pair goes from the L+R RCA outputs of SB-1000 to inputs of monitors
You do the measuring in your setup. Looks to me like ~6' long RCA interconnects would do it, unless for some reason you locate the R2R11 farther away from the sub than what I'm assuming w/std desktop placement

Your monitors are relatively close to the back wall (as in my setup), so you really can't run sub + powered monitors w/o crossover filtering of lows on monitors. Correction: you can do anything you like--but the risk of running monitors + sub full signal is bass bloat. I've done it/I've heard it.

BTW, are you hip to HifiShark? It's a great way to aggregate used listings from all over the world. Just go to www.hifishark.com, enter any of these monitors' model # in the search field, and see what's out there. If you register, you can save any number of searches. 

All to say you might have better luck finding something iike an F7 used vs new.

For example, here's my "results" page for a search of "Adam F7." 
https://www.hifishark.com/search?q=Adam+F7

Most of the listings are used/F.S., but a few might be new. Perhaps one or more would be less expensive to Indonesia than the usual retail channel?


----------



## Neyeah (Feb 12, 2018)

Pharmaboy said:


> Wow--the pricing on those 3 monitors is insane. Indonesia might be the best place of all, but apparently audio isn't one of its high points.
> 
> You certainly could keep the A5+s and just add a sub. It looks like the SVS SB-1000 would fit behind the left side of your desk (facing into the center). That would be an interesting experiment... The SB-1000 would give way better quality than Audio Engine's ported 8" sub, plus it allows crossover-filtered output to the monitors, which the AE sub does not (it allows RCA outs to the sub, but they're not crossover-filtered).
> 
> ...


Seems like those are viable options.

I have to ship to singapore and handcarry back to Indonesia.

If direct shipping to Indonesia the govt will have 25-30% goods(depending on product type) clearance tax, 10% tax, 7.5% another form of tax, easily 35-50% payable as tax. Its dumb.

I may maintain listening without sub. uncomplicate my life LOL and Can't find SBS-1000 online anywhere in indonesia !

Edit: NOOOOOOOOOOO didnt think of it before but now with buying internationally shipping to Singapore
the gate is wide open..

Adam F7, vs Alpha 65 vs Airmotiv 6s vs Mackie HR624


----------



## Pharmaboy

well, then..."my work here is done"

seriously, happy (audio) hunting. 

BTW, just look for SB-1000 in hifishark (they're all over the place, new & used): https://www.hifishark.com/search?q=SB-1000


----------



## nuraman00

Pharmaboy said:


> +1!!
> 
> 
> Yup--Yamaha HS7s. But not stock--mine are new & modded by ZenPro. I've never heard stock HS7s, but a few people who've heard them stock vs Zenpro modded said the modded ones sounded better (that's why I ordered them). It added ~100 to the cost, but so far, I'm mostly satisfied.
> ...



I'm back after a long break again.

Previously, my break from March - September 2017 was because I wasn't getting email alerts.

This time, I was getting email alerts, but I wasn't ready to fully immerse myself in the discussion again.

I also just realized when you said it added $100 to the cost, that was per monitor.

Reading the description of what the mod does, it helps increase the bass response.

http://www.zenproaudio.com/yamaha-hs8-zenpro-mod-pair

I wonder if I could get something like that done for the Airmotiv 6s.  I wonder if it would help about as much as a subwoofer would.

For 95% of the time, I don't think it's lacking.  But for certain tracks, I did want a little more bass, like I used to with a 3 piece system.

ZenPro doesn't carry Emotiva, so it doesn't look like they'd be able to do it.

(It would also get expensive having to ship my monitors there and back, but it was just an idea of whether it was possible.)


----------



## nuraman00

Pharmaboy said:


> Somehow I managed to miss this post...a couple recent posts.
> 
> Re this ("is there a track or part of a track that you think would be too bright on other monitors, but sound good to you on the ZenPro Mod HS7?")--hard to directly answer that. The real truth is a little more nuanced:
> 
> ...



How do you distinguish between more relaxed, and less resolution?


----------



## nuraman00

theveterans said:


> With studio monitor speakers, I believe that they all sound great at their price points IMO. *I listen to my Yamaha HS7 at 80-90 decibels *A weighted and it’s fine for most songs but can get sibilant with poorly mastered tracks at high volumes. IMO the Yamaha HS7s are at the very most slightly brighter than neutral and since you prefer the R2R sound, you might want to go with Adam F7/AX7 since they’re a shade warmer than Yamahas. Tonality wise, I prefer the brighter Yamahas though. Detail retrieval is equal for both and IMO same level as KEF LS50 whether you go with Focal, Yamaha or Adam



How do you know how many decibels you're listening at?


----------



## nuraman00

Neyeah said:


> If with subwoofer, how would the connection go ? speaker -> sub - > dac - > pc ?




Right now, I don't have a DAC or a subwoofer.

But the way I think about the arrows, it's like this:

PC-->Speaker

Is this correct?

If I were to get a sub (not anytime soon), would it be like this:  PC-->Sub-->Speaker?


----------



## Pharmaboy

nuraman00 said:


> How do you distinguish between more relaxed, and less resolution?



Sometimes it's there's no way to distinguish, because in some audio components, these qualities can seem mutually exclusive. ie, if they're highly resolving, they're also edgy, bright, and unnaturally sharp. Or if they're relaxed/euphonic sounding, they can't convey much detail & sound dark/murky. A lot of otherwise pretty decent audio gear is like this: binary, all one thing or all the other. 

However, in some audio products--in my experience, the really good ones that are very well designed & "voiced" (tho not necessarily crazy $$), you can get both. You get a relaxed, musical sound with lots of detail. This is a sonic holy grail IMO: hard to find, but once you hear it, easy to recognize.

The ATC SCM12 Pro's (based on very short-duration listening in an alien environment w/bad cabling) might just be an example of this "you can have it all" phenomenon. For example, I put on symphonic music that has big dynamic peaks w/all instruments playing, also quieter passages w/just a few instruments. The quiet passages were clear as a bell, detailed, not bright. Then came the louder passages, and the ATCs scaled way up, instantly, to much louder, but still very clear, with all instruments blazing away. During these bigger/louder moments, the violins & other string sections didn't sound hard or edgy...they sounded exactly as the quieter passages did, tonally, just louder. It was easy to hear different instruments, also some rather subtle sonic cues like size of hall, reflections, and so on. In other words, lots of resolution w/o the price of peaky brightness.

I have a lot of listening to do when the ATCs land in home office. Maybe they'll stay this way or get even better; or they might go downhill because my office isn't an optimal environment. Then again, the environment they were in when I first heard them is way less optimal than the office.

An example of this "have it all" thing among headphones (in my experience) is the ZMF Eikon. Listening to that amazing closed design, I was wowed by the sheer detail & nuance available at every part of the frequency range...these are highly resolving headphones. Yet at the same time, they have a quality of subtle warm, relaxed/organic tonality, no punishing brightness (you can make them sound peaky, but it takes weird combinations of a certain SS amp + a certain music cut to do it).

Another headphone example, one I'm still puzzling over, is the Focal Elear. That open design has the most detail I ever heard in headphones, even more than the Eikon, plus extreme dynamics (they scale up so big vs softer passages that you jump). Overall, they do not sound in any way warm or relaxed: you're just bathed in detail & dynamics. Yet oddly enough, they don't seem all that bright. Nevertheless, all the dynamics + details give me a headache. Not at all relaxing, lots of detail--but not spitty & obviously unbalanced/peaky in treble. I need to listen more to figure that one out.


----------



## theveterans

nuraman00 said:


> How do you know how many decibels you're listening at?



A calibrated sound level meter at 2ft away from the speakers which is my nearfield listening position


----------



## Neyeah (Feb 13, 2018)

Pharmaboy said:


> well, then..."my work here is done"
> 
> seriously, happy (audio) hunting.
> 
> BTW, just look for SB-1000 in hifishark (they're all over the place, new & used): https://www.hifishark.com/search?q=SB-1000



Hi Pharmaboy and all headfiers

Looked around ebay, hifishark seems like Adam F7 is still the favourable choice price-wise.

However at the back of my mind, I was thinking what if I go crazy and just go higher tier immediately almost once and for all, so the upgrade last a longer time ?

So in the end I also took a peek at Adam A7X. Or do you have other recommendation at this price range ? heard nothing but the best for A7X, Skip sub altogether for sure if go for these prices range for me.

Do you think A7X would be too high and a waste for my level right now ? I only listen to mostly Itunes Top 100, Edm/Trance music etc.. actually also msged Kingwa to ask for advice on r2r 11 vs nfb 11.28 roughly for my usage since I know crap lol

what do you think ?

lastly, i don't see a volume control on F7 on these models or am I missing something ? Sorry I'm so green at this. I saw in some videos some people have there's external volume where there's a knob and etc  what are those ? any recommendations ? it connects to both speakers or if i were to use the variable setting in r2r11/nfg11.28 does it work as well ?


----------



## Pharmaboy

Re volume knob, some monitors have "sensitivity" pots on the back, while some do not. But even when these pots are present, it's impractical to use them for actual volume setting...imagine having to reach behind each monitor to rotate that pot, not being able to see its new position, thus not being to match that volume on the other monitor. 

This is why you need something like the Audio GD R2R11 which allows its volume pot to be a master volume control for both headphones (if connected to headphone output) and powered monitors.

IMO there's really no contest between the R2R11 vs NFB-11.28. These devices have roughly the same feature sets (preamp-capable; powerful HP amp built-in; DAC built in)--but the non-oversampling R2R DAC in the R2R11 is likely to sound better--more relaxed/organic/natural, less bright than the sabre delta-sigma DAC in the 11.28. I moved from sabre delta-sigma DACs to R2R ~1.5 yrs ago, and will never go back. Besides, the R2R11 in particular is getting some serious love by various Head-Fi'ers who own it. 

In truth, if you've been getting audio from your computer's soundcard (ie, digital-to-analog conversion done by the card), either of these Audio GD units are likely to sound significantly better than that. So either would be a step up. But the R2R11 would probably be even more of a step up.

Re Adam 7X vs F7, I've read many many user comments & reviews for each. While I haven't heard either design, I concluded from all those comments that: 

The 7X is described as being more accurate & revealing for music mixing/monitoring purposes. It's an extremely popular monitor for studio/music professionals. But remember, their sonic mission is almost totally different than yours: they want a "forensically" accurate transducer that lets them hear (and adjust) the tiniest audio cues; whereas you listen to music. So maybe you don't want that ultimate accuracy of the 7X...it may sound bright when playing your music.
The F7 is a lower model in the Adam line, and most users of it are also music pros, just ones w/less $$. But I also saw more positive comments by non-professionals/actual music listeners for the F7. 
And then there's cost. If you can step up the significantly higher cost of the 7X, I would have suggested other powered monitors (more expensive ones) in the first place, based on them being described as good for music as well as studio work.


----------



## Neyeah (Feb 13, 2018)

Pharmaboy said:


> Re volume knob, some monitors have "sensitivity" pots on the back, while some do not. But even when these pots are present, it's impractical to use them for actual volume setting...imagine having to reach behind each monitor to rotate that pot, not being able to see its new position, thus not being to match that volume on the other monitor.
> 
> This is why you need something like the Audio GD R2R11 which allows its volume pot to be a master volume control for both headphones (if connected to headphone output) and powered monitors.
> 
> ...


Thanks, as usual you clear up my mind = )

for curiosity sake what would you recommend at 7X price range ?

oh and also, I've been using since the first time i got A5+ http://styleaudio.typepad.com/styleaudio_hifi_usb_mini_/2010/05/2010-new-caratruby2.html
not computer's soundcard.
* 1.       Main DAC : Burr Brown PCM1796*

    -         24 bit 192Khz sampling advanced segment audio stereo DAC

    -         Dynamic range : 123dB / THD+N : 0.0005%

    -         8x Oversampling Digital filter

*    2.       Digital Controller : Cirrus Logic CS8416*

    -         32Khz to 192Khz sample frequency range

    -         Low Jitter clock recovery

*    3.       USB controller : TE7022L*

    -         USB2.0 FS DAC / Fully compliant with USB1.1 specification

    -         Input : 32Khz / 16Bit ~ 96Khz/24Bit

*    4.       OPAMP : Total 8pcs (DIP type)*

    -         Output    : Texas Instruments OPA604 x 2pcs

    -         I/V          : Texas Instruments NE5534 x 4pcs

    -         Headphone : Burr-Brown OPA2134 x 2pcs

Can't find any review except this specs for the DAC i'm currently using if it even helps you understand


----------



## properlydeafnd

I really like my MAudio BX5s.  No need for a sub and they sound great. The only hassle is you need an adapter b/c they only take TRS or XLR input.  I have a 3.5MM to dual XLR cable that I use for mine.


----------



## steph280

I love my Elac Debut speakers.  I recall they were coming out with self powered speakers great to PC use.  Not sure if that ever happened.


----------



## Quake1028

Thoughts on where to go from M-Audio AV40? Audioengine 2+/5+, Kanto YU4, something else entirely? Budget under $400. 

These wouldn't be my main listening option, my Senn 558 and whatever I upgrade those to would be. These would be for a computer desk application, fed from a Pro-ject Pre Box S2 DAC.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Of the 3 brands you mention, the one I read consistently good things about is the Kanto. Actually, I've read the best things about the yu6, which has a 5.25" woofer (~$400). If your desktop can accomodate the somewhat larger yu6, you'll get a lot more impactful bass/upper bass w/that one.
https://www.amazon.com/Kanto-Powere...UTF8&qid=1519612224&sr=8-2&keywords=kanto+yu6


It also definitely helps to put powered speakers on an isolation pad. I use the Auralex pads...a little more expensive. But here's a link to a cheaper set that might be pretty good: https://www.amazon.com/Sound-Addict...-2-spons&keywords=auralex+isolation+pad&psc=1


----------



## nuraman00

Pharmaboy said:


> Sometimes it's there's no way to distinguish, because in some audio components, these qualities can seem mutually exclusive. ie, if they're highly resolving, they're also edgy, bright, and unnaturally sharp. Or if they're relaxed/euphonic sounding, they can't convey much detail & sound dark/murky. A lot of otherwise pretty decent audio gear is like this: binary, all one thing or all the other.
> 
> However, in some audio products--in my experience, the really good ones that are very well designed & "voiced" (tho not necessarily crazy $$), you can get both. You get a relaxed, musical sound with lots of detail. This is a sonic holy grail IMO: hard to find, but once you hear it, easy to recognize.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the post and examples.


----------



## nuraman00

What do people think of the brand Klipsch, for these types of monitors?

I heard some lower level ones about 19 years ago, and I liked them then.

Just wanted to see how others thought of them now.


----------



## nuraman00

Neyeah said:


> Hi Pharmaboy and all headfiers
> 
> 
> 
> lastly, i don't see a volume control on F7 on these models or am I missing something ? Sorry I'm so green at this. I saw in some videos some people have there's external volume where there's a knob and etc  what are those ? any recommendations ? it connects to both speakers or if i were to use the variable setting in r2r11/nfg11.28 does it work as well ?



I bought a keyboard with volume controls on it.  (One button to mute; one button to increase volume; one button to decrease volume).

I can use those buttons to control the volume of the speakers.

As @Pharmaboy mentioned, it's not practical to use the controls on the back of the speakers.


----------



## nuraman00

@Pharmaboy, what have you read/heard regarding the brand I ended up buying during my search, the Emotiva Airmotiv 6s?


----------



## George Taylor

Quake1028 said:


> Thoughts on where to go from M-Audio AV40? Audioengine 2+/5+, Kanto YU4, something else entirely? Budget under $400.
> 
> These wouldn't be my main listening option, my Senn 558 and whatever I upgrade those to would be. These would be for a computer desk application, fed from a Pro-ject Pre Box S2 DAC.


I recently bought a pair of the Kanto YU4 and am quite happy with them. I do not have any experience with the others you've mentioned. I do not have a sub connected to them, but feel they have more than enough bass for my liking. I'm generally not going for a surround sound type set up here, just basic gaming and occasional movie watching. And music, of course. More than anything else, music.


----------



## Pharmaboy

nuraman00 said:


> What do people think of the brand Klipsch, for these types of monitors?
> 
> I heard some lower level ones about 19 years ago, and I liked them then.
> 
> Just wanted to see how others thought of them now.



There are a number of Klipsch 2-way passive speakers around (check Audio Advisor, Crutchfield, etc...read user comments). I've never heard any of them. 

You should remain aware that, if these are to be used in a desktop environment, you're putting horn tweeters 2-3 feet from your ears. That may or may not be a good idea. The reviews & user comments may/may not hint at this. 

Most speakers are not optimized/designed for nearfield use. However, some of those can be very good in desktop applications. Other speakers are designed from the start for nearfield use, and of course have high odds of success for that.

Of all the reading I've done about Klipsch 2-ways, the comments that come to mind are "dynamic" and (sometimes) "accurate" or "bright." The latter may or may not be real. Sometimes a low-distortion, extremely efficient speaker can really "jump at your ears" and to some, that can sound "hard" or "bright." Just recycling old user comments here...never heard any of these.


----------



## Pharmaboy

nuraman00 said:


> @Pharmaboy, what have you read/heard regarding the brand I ended up buying during my search, the Emotiva Airmotiv 6s?



I was extremely interested in these...1 of 2-3 models w/non-trad tweeters that interested me. Read the user comments & reviews for these--intriguing. Like most powered studio monitors, they were never really intended for music appreciation, but I gather a number of users got them for that purpose and liked them...

They were just too deep for the desktop. They're also discontinued, though they pop up used now and then.


----------



## Pharmaboy

nuraman00 said:


> I bought a keyboard with volume controls on it.  (One button to mute; one button to increase volume; one button to decrease volume).
> 
> I can use those buttons to control the volume of the speakers.
> 
> As @Pharmaboy mentioned, it's not practical to use the controls on the back of the speakers.



Trying to advise, not preach here: but you really won't hear what your speakers + amp or powered monitors can do until you get away from using the computer audio outputs for digital conversion (think that's what you refer to).

But if I'm wrong--if you already have an external DAC & would be using keyboard buttons purely for volume control--that's also a potentially quality-robbing maneuver, since the volume control would surely be in the digital domain, thus robbing you of bits for music.

There's really no substitute for old fashioned RCA pair in/ RCA pair out volume control w/a trad volume potentiometer. That may be found on a device called a preamplifier; a passive preamp; a headphone amp that doubles as a preamp; etc. For the first decade of my desktop music adventure, I used a simple, inexpensive passive controller by NHT ("PVC") which to this day is the best sounding, least noticeable volume controller ever. It was discontinued long ago or I'd recommend it...

This can easily become a longer conversation--if, for example, you don't have a DAC (can't recall, frankly), are unsure about cost or availability of good DACs, etc. If so, pls advise.


----------



## Ra97oR

Something like a Chord Mojo would work directly as a monitor pre amp really.

My setup have a passive monitor volume control so I can run my Mojo at line level and feed both my monitors and headphone amplifier. One with a mute button and an amp with a input switch can be handy.


----------



## Pharmaboy

nice focals!

also nice to see I'm not the only one forced to put the monitors/speakers too close to back wall (in my case, it's a wall w/5' X 4' picture window covered by shades).


----------



## Pharmaboy

Update about the new/used ATC SCM12 Pro monitors:

I installed these big/bold monitors + the Wyred4Sound ST-500 class D amp ~ 1 week ago. It has been extremely interesting listening to these high-quality transducers, the best speakers I've heard in decades. It's mostly good news w/a little bad news thrown in (as usual).

*Good news:*
The ATCs are a rare combination of extremely accurate, faithful, and revealing--but not especially edgy or bright unless cranked (see "Bad News" below). I thought my powered ZenPro mod Yamaha HS7s were revealing, information-rich low-volume speakers, but the ATCs are in a whole different league. No matter how low a volume I listen, all the music is there, including the bass. Very even, level, balanced sounding speakers.

The bass is among the best I've ever heard from speakers--kind of shocking that it could be this good in a 2-way design, where the woofer handles not just bass, but also the majority of the midrange. Nevertheless, the bass is quietly spectacular. When I play jazz featuring string bass, for example, the upper notes of the string bass are rendered with as much authority and clarity as I've ever heard. I also should note that the advantages of a sealed, acoustic suspension design are also on full display here: bass that's tight w/o being tedious. It billows up, getting bigger/louder in a very analogue, musical way (just like music does IRL). And at the bottom of this speaker's effective range (below ~60Hz, where it starts falling off precipitously, as sealed designs do), the bass decays ultra-naturally. 

The midrange is also vast & informative on the ATCs. That's the heart of music, and the ATCs just don't quit in level, detailed midrange information. I have no problem seeing why these are used by music professionals in recording/mixing studios...

Even listening at low volume as I work (typically classical music), I am frequently diverted by the clarity & musical value of what I'm hearing. These are truly great speakers.

*Bad news:*
As I'm finding pretty much all speakers do, things don't sound so good when I crank them. The upper midrange/lower treble hardens and transients get sharp. They really didn't sound this way in a more open space before putting them here in home office w/just ~1 ft. behind them. Oh, well. I plan to get a Schitt Loki (4 band hardware equalizer) to reduce the level of that range a bit (perhaps only when I crank them...? easy to do w/the Loki using the bypass switch).

I also still have to wire in a high-grade external crossover to direct frequencies above ~70-75 Hz to the ATC and below that, to the sub. That may have an effect on what I hear when I crank it (because it's much higher quality design & components than the simple high-pass crossover built into the sub). Either because of the Loki or the external crossover, it would be really nice if I could crank these babies once in awhile.

Audio is really fun...what else can I say?


----------



## theveterans

Pharmaboy said:


> As I'm finding pretty much all speakers do, things don't sound so good when I crank them. The upper midrange/lower treble hardens and transients get sharp. They really didn't sound this way in a more open space before putting them here in home office w/just ~1 ft. behind them. Oh, well. I plan to get a Schitt Loki (4 band hardware equalizer) to reduce the level of that range a bit (perhaps only when I crank them...? easy to do w/the Loki using the bypass switch).



I disagree with the cranking up the speakers sounding worse. I regularly crank up my bone stock Yamaha HS7 to over 90 dBa peaks and even exceeding 100 dBa peak loudness when watching action movies and the upper mids never sharpen nor harden. BTW, at 82+ dBa average, you can hear all of the details of your music just as good as the Sennheiser HD800 IME so IMO the HS7 (stock amp) resolution is excellent.


----------



## Pharmaboy

theveterans said:


> I disagree with the cranking up the speakers sounding worse. I regularly crank up my bone stock Yamaha HS7 to over 90 dBa peaks and even exceeding 100 dBa peak loudness when watching action movies and the upper mids never sharpen nor harden. BTW, at 82+ dBa average, you can hear all of the details of your music just as good as the Sennheiser HD800 IME so IMO the HS7 (stock amp) resolution is excellent.



Maybe I wasn't clear. In my home office, which has no sound attenuation or reinforcement materials on walls/ceiling, and not enough room behind the speakers--none of the 4 pairs of powered or passive speakers/monitors Ive had here over the past decade have sounded very good when cranked. The problem always is some degree of hardening of the upper midrange/lower treble.

Specific to the Yahama HS7s: they sounded somewhat different, and better, when I was burning them in (in the garage), with plenty of space in all directions. I could turn them up w/less of this problem, though there was a little (I found the Yamahas to be somewhat "mid-rangy," so that was the area that didn't scale up quite as well as everything else at higher volume).

But to find a relatively similar issue developing with the ATCs (a far more expensive speaker) when cranked in my office, when I didn't hear it in another, larger space in the house--it suggests that the primary culprit is my room

Having said that, the ATCs + amp sound relatively unlike the Yamahas in a number of ways. They are certainly different designs: the ATCs are acoustic suspension/sealed, significantly larger, more strongly built, and the drivers spec'd to a higher standard (though the Yamahas are also rather well built). They're both good, but the ATCs are just better. 

Then again, the Yamahas are better than the 2 previous pairs of powered monitors--significantly better.

It's all relative.


----------



## Ra97oR

Pharmaboy said:


> nice focals!
> 
> also nice to see I'm not the only one forced to put the monitors/speakers too close to back wall (in my case, it's a wall w/5' X 4' picture window covered by shades).


I have at least half a foot of space behind the speakers to the acoustic foam. Tried moving them further away, but didn't make much difference other than making my room smaller.

The rear ported Genelec really didn't like being close to the wall, especially untreated wall but the front ported Focal didn't care as much.


----------



## nuraman00

Pharmaboy said:


> Trying to advise, not preach here: but you really won't hear what your speakers + amp or powered monitors can do until you get away from using the computer audio outputs for digital conversion (think that's what you refer to).
> 
> But if I'm wrong--if you already have an external DAC & would be using keyboard buttons purely for volume control--that's also a potentially quality-robbing maneuver, since the volume control would surely be in the digital domain, thus robbing you of bits for music.
> 
> ...



No, I don't already have a DAC. It's on my wishlist.

How does adjusting the volume digitally from a keyboard hinder the quality? 

When I get a DAC, I want one with both 3.5mm out so I can use the 3.5mm to RCA adapter to connect it to my speakers, and optical out so I can also use it with my personal CD player when I want to use that. There's not many DACs that have both.  I did see one though last year.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Assuming your keyboard is varying volume while the signal is still in the digital domain--the attenuation might be done via truncation (elimination) of digital "bits" of resolution: in this case, maximum/unattenuated volume is not "lossy" (no bits are truncated), but the more attenuation that is applied, the more bits are truncated.

That's a generality. What matters are the specific components in your system & how they do things.

Regardless, the standard wisdom is:
-- use an external DAC of the best quality you can afford/manage
-- send unattenuated digital signal to that device via USB or other means
-- put an analog volume attenuator of some kind on the output of the DAC.

Re the various outputs of a DAC that you mention, the only "fly in the ointment" is that the DACs I've seen mute all but the selected output. For example, a DAC w/coax out + toslink out + RCA L+R out will mute the coax & toslink if the RCA outputs are carrying signal.


----------



## Pharmaboy

UPDATE: to the post about my new ATCs. "There have been developments" as they say in police procedurals.

As background, I have to explain couple details of my overly complex signal chain:

For the entire time I've had a desktop system, I've had subwoofers in the system.
With both subs I've had, the signal from my DAC went to a headphone amp/preamp; then a 2M interconnect took the preamp output to the RCA inputs of the sub.
Each sub had a high pass output pair (L+R RCA) filtered to remove signal below 80Hz (slope of 12 dBA/octave).
Another 2M interconnect took the signal from the sub to powered speakers (NHTs; then Yamaha's); or more recently, the Wyred4Sound class D amp that powers the ATC SCM12 Pro's.
I've had upper midrange/lower treble anomalies in all 4 speaker systems I've used in this home office. I chalked my speaker issues up to room boundary stuff--ie, back wall being too close to back of speakers. For example, the Zenpro modded Yamaha HS7s, for example, had upper midrange shoutiness & congestion as well as overly plump bass due to rear port facing nearby wall & window.

Then I got the ATCs, which are renowned in pro audio for their accuracy & listenability. They sounded _really_ fine here as long as I didn't push the volume much (they're the best low-volume speakers I've ever heard, even somewhat better than the excellent Yamaha's). But when I cranked them up, upper midrange brightness & congestion kicked in. Hard to listen at medium-loud, as I like to do sometimes.

Meanwhile, for 2+ years I've had an external 2-way crossover made by Marchand sitting on the sidelines. This crossover splits the incoming/main signal into a low pass RCA pair (signal below selected crossover frequency); and high pass RCA pair (signal above that frequency). Crossover frequency is selectable & variable from the front panel; crossover slopes are a rigorous 24 dB/octave.  

I've known for some time the only way to be totally sure the inexpensive little crossover cards in these subs aren't messing w/the sound, is to put this Marchand crossover in the signal chain. Which I just did. It took over an hour...wires everywhere.

*WHAT A DIFFERENCE!! *

This is one of the most successful audio upgrades I've ever done. Now I can crank the ATCs 'til my ears bleed...GREAT sound at any volume. The entire midrange sounds calmer, smoother, even more detailed. The lower mids/upper bass sound flatter, clearer, more detailed. These monitors are _*extremely*_ good...they make beautiful music. For the first time, I'm hearing them as intended. All because of a crossover switch...

Now I can't help but wonder what those Yamaha's "really sound like" (?!?) Will try that out this week, just for S & G's.


----------



## damex

hi, is there something ultra compact available on market that is worth to get? (that i could easily take with me during relocation and won't need to sell off) i am looking at something very small to keep on table next to laptop which would use little to no space.


----------



## xoxiax

damex said:


> hi, is there something ultra compact available on market that is worth to get? (that i could easily take with me during relocation and won't need to sell off) i am looking at something very small to keep on table next to laptop which would use little to no space.



I've had or tried the audioengine 2, iloud multimedia, eve sc203 and genelec 6010 (now 8010). All are great mini speakers (with different prices, i know), but here Genelec reigns, i still use it daily on my desktop and we have lived together in 4 different countries... Aufdioengine, not being bad, would be the weakest of the bunch to my ears, no doubt. The other three present a bass response with surprising authority for their size, and  all of them have a full bodied, well articulated, non bloated sound (for their size, i insist). The Genelec's sound excels at precision, imaging and soundstage, that's why they were my final choice. Despite being inspired by the Genelec's pro line i find these ones less dry, more "multitask" than it's bigger brothers). To my ears they sound simply better than the iloud and more "musical" than the Eve's, which are also great.

 Hope it helps.


----------



## bequietjk

I love my B&Ws.  Personal preference tho xD


----------



## nuraman00

bequietjk said:


> I love my B&Ws.  Personal preference tho xD



What model do you have?

I chose the B&W P7 Headphones in 2014, after listening to and comparing them against 2 others.

In 2016, when I was looking for speakers, and having had a good experience with B&W as a brand, I looked into them again.  

But after some feedback in this thread, I ended up trialing two other ones, then picked the Emotiva Airmotiv 6s.

So I'm curious to read your experience with whatever model B&W speakers you chose.


----------



## Digitalis (Jun 9, 2018)

Pharmaboy said:


> There are a number of Klipsch 2-way passive speakers around (check Audio Advisor, Crutchfield, etc...read user comments). I've never heard any of them.
> 
> You should remain aware that, if these are to be used in a desktop environment, you're putting horn tweeters 2-3 feet from your ears. That may or may not be a good idea. The reviews & user comments may/may not hint at this.
> 
> ...



If you are using purely class D amplification then yes, Klipsch speakers can sound harsh at high volume - but that is largely an inherent issue with class D amplifiers. I have found [ I own a pair of Klipsch RP160Ms] tube amps and class A amps and A/B amplifiers sound great with them even at high volume. My listening position is about 1.2m with a bit of toe-in, I have the RP-160M speakers set up on stands on the sides of my desk, I would agree that putting a pair of speakers directly on your desk isn't a particularly good idea...unless you have a huge desk with room to find the sweet spot for them*. Most "computer desks" desks do not have the kind of real estate to handle anything with a footprint bigger than a Klipsch RP-15.


*front ported, rear ported,sealed enclosure... all have their own proclivities when it comes to placement.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Digitalis said:


> If you are using purely class D amplification then yes, Klipsch speakers can sound harsh at high volume - but that is largely an inherent issue with class D amplifiers. I have found [ I own a pair of Klipsch RP160Ms] tube amps and class A amps and A/B amplifiers sound great with them even at high volume. My listening position is about 1.2m with a bit of toe-in, I have the RP-160M speakers set up on stands on the sides of my desk, I would agree that putting a pair of speakers directly on your desk isn't a particularly good idea...unless you have a huge desk with room to find the sweet spot for them*. Most "computer desks" desks do not have the kind of real estate to handle anything with a footprint bigger than a Klipsch RP-15.
> 
> 
> *front ported, rear ported,sealed enclosure... all have their own proclivities when it comes to placement.



Have to reply about class D amps. Late last year/early this year I did a ton of research into class D amps for my desktop because:

I planned to buy my first ever passive speakers/monitors for the desktop (ATC SCM12 Pros, big passive 2-way studio monitors).
Thus, I would need an amp, and not just any amp--an amp that would fit into my very space-constrained desktop (I have 2 large AB amps kicking around...both are way too large for the desktop). Thus, I ended up researching class D amps.
What I found is the typical bifurcated audio market for a given technology: at the low end, ICE-amps and other low-end class D amps can be had for <$500. Some of these share the core class D technology/core with higher end amps, but their power supplies and input sections are skimpy/primitive, doing almost nothing to "voice" the amp away from the early harsh/cold class D sound. These amps certainly save space (they're quite small), but typically don't sound very good.

At the higher end, you find big name audio companies building pretty serious amps around class D power modules, including newer/more expensive variants such as NCore. Audio companies like PS Audio, Rowland, Bel Canto, NAD, and Merrill have put their designs skills to work producing uber-powerful class D amps that try to sound very good, at least competitive with top class A or AB amp designs around. 

I ended up getting a used Wyred4Sound ST-500 amp (250/500WPC into 8 ohms & 4 ohms, respectively). I read enough reviews (one is linked below) to know this was one of those emerging class D designs described as sounding quite musical, not harsh & cold. It's also said to have very good bass. All this is true, if my ears are the judge. To save space, I have the ST-500 installed standing on one side. I couldn't do this with an AB amp because it would mess up the heat dissipation--but there's close to zero heat from this class D amp, so no problem.

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/wyred5/st500.html

Don't give up on class D. It's really coming into its own these days.


----------



## Digitalis

Pharmaboy said:


> Don't give up on class D. It's really coming into its own these days.



That review was from 2010. I have recently had a chance to listen to the Schiit Vidar, a Class A/B amp 100W @ 8 ohm. Going price 699 USD, It's not bad at all, and can drive pretty much anything in the realm of bookshelf speakers.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Yes, the review was from 2010. Class D amps have been around since the '80s...and getting better all the time, at least in the upper tier of the mkt.

Glad you like your Schiit amp. You're right in saying pretty much everything in the realm of bookshelf speakers would be just fine w/this amp. 

The ATCs aren't bookshelf speakers, at least not in the usual sense: though they're 2-way, they're also large, heavy, acoustic suspension/sealed design,  built like tanks (ie, passive monitors used in studio work).

So I knew going in that ~100WPC might not cut it w/these beasts (they're rated at 85 dB/1M efficiency--that's very low). When I crank them, which isn't often, I didn't want the amp to get pushed into clipping. With the ST-500, I'm in more danger of deafness & concussion at high level than amp clipping!


----------



## KungFuNat

audioengine


----------



## mikerrr

endifier  7..1  are  very good


----------



## nuraman00

Pharmaboy said:


> Have to reply about class D amps. Late last year/early this year I did a ton of research into class D amps for my desktop because:
> 
> I planned to buy my first ever passive speakers/monitors for the desktop (ATC SCM12 Pros, big passive 2-way studio monitors).
> Thus, I would need an amp, and not just any amp--an amp that would fit into my very space-constrained desktop (I have 2 large AB amps kicking around...both are way too large for the desktop). Thus, I ended up researching class D amps.
> ...



What are your thoughts on active Class D speakers vs. passive Class D, if any?

My only experience with Class D is when I tested the JBL LSR308 (class D) with the Emotiva Airmotiv 6s (Class AB).  The sound was similar on most of the 22 tracks I compared.  However, I couldn't get rid of the hum that the JBL's produced, so that was the deciding factor.


----------



## Pharmaboy

nuraman00 said:


> What are your thoughts on active Class D speakers vs. passive Class D, if any?
> 
> My only experience with Class D is when I tested the JBL LSR308 (class D) with the Emotiva Airmotiv 6s (Class AB).  The sound was similar on most of the 22 tracks I compared.  However, I couldn't get rid of the hum that the JBL's produced, so that was the deciding factor.



I've had 3-4 different powered monitor/speaker pairs, none powered by Class D amps.

On the desktop I've had just 1 set of passive monitors (the ATCs) which are powered by a pretty good/not inexpensive standalone class D amp, the Wyred4Sound. 

For pure sound quality, my vote would be on the passive monitors + class D amps, though like anything else, you have to pick the specific products carefully (some passive speakers/monitors sound great while others sound like barf; same w/amps). The reason for my preference is that separating the amp from speaker/monitors means the designers of each can lavish more care in materials/parts selection in their products--they're not confined to the on-board monitor. But the cost of this is space (I had to find space on desktop for the standalone amp). 

Then again, I didn't investigate the high end of powered monitors, so I'm no doubt missing things there (ie, pricey Focals, Genelecs, ATCs).


----------



## nuraman00

Pharmaboy said:


> I've had 3-4 different powered monitor/speaker pairs, none powered by Class D amps.
> 
> On the desktop I've had just 1 set of passive monitors (the ATCs) which are powered by a pretty good/not inexpensive standalone class D amp, the Wyred4Sound.
> 
> ...



Makes sense.

Your earlier post said "Don't give up on Class D's.".

Is there some concern about Class D's?

When I was researching what speakers to get in 2016, I had approached it by looking at a few well rated models.  I then picked 2, bought both set them up side by side, then made a decision on which one I wanted to keep.

Others may have more specific criteria, as in they want speakers with a certain Class amp.  So they might only look at ones with certain class amps.

Also, I just saw the price for a pair of your ATC SCM12 Pro's.  Were they $1,750+ for the pair?

It looks like my Airmotiv 6s are similar in size/weight as yours, in terms of space.


----------



## Pharmaboy

nuraman00 said:


> Makes sense.
> 
> Your earlier post said "Don't give up on Class D's.".
> 
> ...



Class D amplifiers have a long and checkered past in the trad audiophile community. They've been around for decades, but for a long time were said to sound dry, bright, parched, hamonically thin, all that. Helps to remember they were being compared to mega-buck class A or A/B amps on mega-buck 2-channel speaker systems. For a long time class D amps didn't measure up to class A or A/B. Until things started to really change 8-9 years ago when companies like Bel Canto & NAD started coming out with class D amps that were not only built around a new generation of (said to be better-sounding) class D cores: but whose power and analog front end sections were specifically developed and "voiced" for use w/class D cores. So starting about 8-9 years ago, class D amps that sounded quite good, even competitive w/class A or A/B amps, started to become available. 

Now you can find some extremely well reviewed & compact class D amps that compete reasonably well with trad amps. My Wyred4Sound ST500 is one such. BTW, the W4S isn't tiny by any means (~17" W x 11"D x 3.5"H). But completely unlike class A or AB amps, it has near zero heat output and thus can be used on its side...I have it snugged up against my big desktop, so that it takes up minimal desktop space.

Re selection of powered monitors or passive speakers/monitors, I had some strict criteria the candidate pairs had to fulfill, which actually made it very hard to find candidates:

I wanted a sealed/acoustic suspension design, not the usual ported design--because the bass from sealed 2-ways just sounds tighter to me, also far less likely to interact w/my too-close back wall
I also wanted at least a 6" bass/midrange driver. Even though I cross the speakers over to a sub @80hz, I find that the quality of mid-bass & upper bass produced by a larger driver sound less strained & "shouty" than from smaller drivers
Depth measurement was critical...any more than 11" deep and it just wouldn't work

I got the ATCs used, so no, I didn't pay $1,750/'pr. Think I paid $1000, and worth every penny. They're incredible speakers. They certainly have some of that forensic/revealing quality that studio monitors tend to have--but they're also not bright, have a spectacular amt of midrange depth/transparency, and can sound musical when the music was well-recorded.

Those AirMotive monitors were on my short list of "interesting but won't fit" models (they're 12.75" deep...deal-breaker). I admit that I was also concerned about the sound of the EMIT-type tweeter, which in many studio monitors is said to sound hard/bright & tending to dominate the monitor's "voicing." 

A couple candidates in the same class of powered monitors that really got me interested were:

Hedd Model 07 (pretty large, expensive, front-ported vs sealed, class D amps on board); and
Quad S2 (smaller, less expensive, 5" bass/mid driver, back-ported, said to sound pretty amazing)

FYI, I prowled the Internet for reviews and user comments regarding any monitors/speakers of interest to me. I was specifically looking for monitors/speakers that even typical music mix/studio types occasionally described as pleasing to listen to.


----------



## nuraman00

I've really liked your responses in this thread.  They're very informative.  And prompt, too.

On a side note, I just saw a notification option for this:  "Persistent thread subscription email notifications

This will send an email for every reply to subscribed threads, even if you don't visit the thread between replies."

I think this is new.  This is what I prefer.  There were a few times where I'd get the initial notification, but wouldn't get any ones after that if I hadn't visited the thread again.  Sometimes when going through emails, I'd see the notification, but wouldn't have time at that moment to engage myself in the thread, so I'd tell myself to come back to it later.  But then without any follow up notifications for an active thread, I'd forget about it.

Now, when there is an active discussion within a thread, I can keep getting reminders that I need to check this thread.

Can you post some pictures of a sealed vs. ported speakers?  Maybe a specific model of something you would have considered if it weren't ported?

I too wanted at least a 6" driver.

I also regret not having a 2.1 system for comparison, especially since I'd come from a 2.1 system for the previous 17 years before getting these Airmotivs in 2016.  I think I could still use a subwoofer for 5-8% of my music, as well as a DAC, but those are future wishlist items, not something I'm looking to buy right now.


----------



## Shane D

I researched heavily for many weeks and decided to go with the Vanatoo Transparent Zero's.

Should be here by the end of the week.

I chose these because of size, flexibility of connections, DAC to help my motherboard and hundreds of amazing reviews. I also ordered four yoga blocks to play with speaker placing.

Really looking forward to getting these.

Shane D


----------



## nuraman00

Shane D said:


> I researched heavily for many weeks and decided to go with the Vanatoo Transparent Zero's.
> 
> Should be here by the end of the week.
> 
> ...



Great.  Looking forward to hearing from you after you have them in place.


----------



## Pharmaboy

I should have posted this before (just remembered) ... I have a mint pair of ZenPro modded Yamaha HS7s F.S. on Head-Fi right now.

If any questions, feel free to PM me.


----------



## nuraman00

Pharmaboy said:


> I should have posted this before (just remembered) ... I have a mint pair of ZenPro modded Yamaha HS7s F.S. on Head-Fi right now.
> 
> If any questions, feel free to PM me.



Thanks.

My left Airmotiv 6s is hissing right now.  I need to contact Emotiva to see what they can do.

Depending on what happens, I might need to look for something else.  I don't know if I'd want just one and have them be mis-matched brands, or get a new set.  

So, stay tuned.  There's a chance I could contact you in the future, or go through other recommendations in this thread.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Good luck w/that Airmotiv issue. Hiss (usually in both monitors) is a thing we all wish to not have in powered monitors. Some hiss routinely @ low levels; others do not. 

A suggestion: if you're using the unbalanced inputs to these, try the balanced inputs. Sometimes that does something for hiss.


----------



## Shane D (Feb 4, 2019)

You and me both! I am pretty sure they are going to blow away my Bose set-up (Companion 3 Series II). You have to turn your sub down so much in an apartment, it is useless. Also, I don't listen super loud. The second bedroom is more storeroom than office. This will definitely be nearfield listening at no more than 1/3 of max volume. I just want a "full sound" from two small speakers on my desk. I expect that this will go very well.

Then I want to carry them out to the living room and try the TV. Now that we are back in apartment living the receiver and two large floor standers is overkill. Even with all of that available power on tap, the dialogue is sometimes hard to hear. And I have tried every different setting. Curious about the Vanatoo sound from TV. If it seems to work I might pick up a pair or T1E's in the summer and move the big stuff.

Funny how in my 20's I got so much joy in accumulating stuff and now I get more joy in dumping/downsizing.

Shane D


----------



## Shane D

Got my speakers today. So much smaller than the others I looked at which would have overwhelmed my little desktop.

Set them up soon after arriving and they sucked! Once they warmed up it was a much different story. I took the limiters off and bumped the bass up a little and the treble down a little. These are SO much better than my little Bose 2.1.

They have way more power than I need in this little spot. The volume runs from 7:00 to 5:00. Anything past 11:00 would likely incite a visit from the super. I have them set up on the outside wall (shared with neighbouring apartment) pointing in. Hopefully very little sound transmits to the neighbours.

I am really liking the sound now and definitely will not need a sub.

They are really vibrating the desk. I also ordered Yoga blocks which will be in next week. More isolation definitely wouldn't hurt.

So far, so good.

For context, the monitor is 32"

Shane D


----------



## nuraman00

Shane D said:


> I took the limiters off and bumped the bass up a little and the treble down a little. These are SO much better than my little Bose 2.1.



Where or how were the limiters configured?  And how did you adjust them?


----------



## nuraman00

Pharmaboy said:


> Good luck w/that Airmotiv issue. Hiss (usually in both monitors) is a thing we all wish to not have in powered monitors. Some hiss routinely @ low levels; others do not.
> 
> A suggestion: if you're using the unbalanced inputs to these, try the balanced inputs. Sometimes that does something for hiss.



I've had these since September 2016.  They just started hissing a lot one day last week.

When I was comparing the Emotiva Airmtov 6s and JBL LSR 308 side by side, the JBLs had a little bit of a hum that I couldn't get rid of.  The sound was similar between them, but there wasn't any hum from the Airmotiv, so that made my decision.

I haven't contacted Emotiva yet, but will do so soon.


----------



## Shane D

nuraman00 said:


> Where or how were the limiters configured?  And how did you adjust them?



Vanatoo has a "procedure" for making system adjustments. You have to download the manual. I actually had to put the limiters back on as the volume was fluctuating.

Shane D


----------



## canali

if you can splurge the newer KEF LSX speakers (mini LS50 wireless) look great...
they're Roon ready, too.
right now i'm using a pair of Sonos play 1 i got for us$150, so can't complain given the price.
(my desktop is also my kitchen table...so not like i'm doing critical listening while surfing on laptop
or cooking a meal.)


----------



## sunnybirch

I've had JBL LSR 305 connected to PC via Micca Origen g2 DAC/preamp. Sound quality was excellent, though they were somehow "twangy" (high pitch). Stereo imaging was supreme, slighty lack of bass. Ive disbanded them cause i couldnt get rid of constant hiss.
Bought Mackie MR524 - no hiss, decent stereo imaging, lack of bass (punch). Flat. Decent solution for desktop speakers. After those ive tested Edifier S1000DB - they had similar hiss problem as JBL 305 (less hiss but noticeable on desktop). Edifier S880DB - was on par with Vanatoo T0, just a slight lack of bass. 
In the end i bought Edifier S350DB: excellent connectivity, well balanced dsp switching of lower frequencies to subwoofer, unified sound, nice soundstage... They can compete with three times more expensive speakers. For now i can recommend these as best buy under 500$.


----------



## nuraman00

sunnybirch said:


> I've had JBL LSR 305 connected to PC via Micca Origen g2 DAC/preamp. Sound quality was excellent, though they were somehow "twangy" (high pitch). Stereo imaging was supreme, slighty lack of bass. Ive disbanded them cause i couldnt get rid of constant hiss.
> Bought Mackie MR524 - no hiss, decent stereo imaging, lack of bass (punch). Flat. Decent solution for desktop speakers. After those ive tested Edifier S1000DB - they had similar hiss problem as JBL 305 (less hiss but noticeable on desktop). Edifier S880DB - was on par with Vanatoo T0, just a slight lack of bass.
> In the end i bought Edifier S350DB: excellent connectivity, well balanced dsp switching of lower frequencies to subwoofer, unified sound, nice soundstage... They can compete with three times more expensive speakers. For now i can recommend these as best buy under 500$.



I too had a problem with a hiss in the JBL LSR 308 (similar model).

How was the bass in the Edifiier?

How would you recommend connecting them from a computer?  What type of connection and cables?

I also see there's a S350DB which is part of their computer speaker line.

There's only a 2 year warranty though.  

The current Emotiva that I have have a 5 year warranty.

I don't know if I'll need new ones, I need to try the trouble shooting steps Emotiva told me on Friday.  But having information on some alternatives is a good idea, for me.


----------



## sunnybirch

nuraman00 said:


> I too had a problem with a hiss in the JBL LSR 308 (similar model).
> How was the bass in the Edifiier?
> How would you recommend connecting them from a computer?  What type of connection and cables?
> I also see there's a S350DB which is part of their computer speaker line.
> ...



The bass in Edifier s350db is excellent - punchy, clear, no hearable rattling, well balanced. For example, on Edifier S350DB, Stevie Wonder - Superstition sounds remarkably better, alive, wide and unified. The song is "alive". Though that wasnt the case on JBL 305.
I connected JBL305 on AVR UPS, used different 3.5mm to 1/4 TS mono cables (Hosa CMP, even Black Rhodium) - whatever cables ive used they still had a noticeable hiss. They produced hiss when disconnected from sound source, so it was the amp itself that had problems.

As for Edifier S350DB i didnt even had to test different cables. Packaged with the system there are RCA and digital optical cables. Right out of the box ive connected them via bluetooth (aptx supported) and the sound was a pleasure. Then i tried RCA connection to laptop (acer a717g, which has realtek "junk" dac): they performed extremelly well. Clear highs and mids, punchy bass, no rattling, soundstage was open, room was filled with sound (6x4x3m) and there was no distortion on any volume level. For the price - they are remarkable.
You can check the review on youtube (i saw it after buying


----------



## Nevi

After I  have heard the Kef LSX I'm sold. I will use them with a Bowers and Wilkins 608 sub. I'm not sure the small subs Kef make dig deep enough. I have been very satisfied with my modded Yamahas, but then I heard Kef .
The soundstage and depth blew me away. I would like the LS 50,to my surround, but they are expensive. Choices choices.


----------



## Shane D

Just to follow up, I am REALLY enjoying my Vanatoo Zero's. The sound is great and the size is even better. I didn't expect much from active speakers, but these really do perform. They do need some isolation from the desk when rocking hard with Grandson, Rival Sons and Fidlar. Horns sound great with Miles Davis, Jimmy Smith and Freddie Hubbard. Today I have been running through vocals from Florence and the Machine, Neil Diamond, Aretha Franklin and Adele. Very impressive.

Also, with no sub, I can play them louder. They are pointing at the living room wall and my wife can't hear them until she comes down the hallway. Haven't checked with the neighbour though...

Shane D


----------



## Shane D

One last update as the system is now complete:

Now elevated. It makes a huge difference, but not just the angle.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just one Yoga block flat is four inches high. I think with the speaker angle that is enough. The really big deal is the isolation from the desk. These can now really go off without shaking the whole desk and creating a rumble. Now you can just feel the bass pop when called upon. Keep in mind that I am not a bass head.


Some numbers:
My desk is 28 inches off the floor.
I am 6ft with a long torso.
The top of my speaker is now 40" off the floor
Just got my wife to measure floor to middle ear = 49"
Just did another test with a level from tweeter to my head. The tweeter is actually shooting above my ear. If I fold over my very thin Vanatoo cushion and place it under the rear of the speaker it gets me perfect treble to ear alignment. While my wife stands there giving me an "I am married to an idiot!" look.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





Assuming my table is average height, you only need two Yoga blocks, one for each speaker. I went with the standard 9" X 6" X 4". There are different styles available. They were $12.00 a pair on Amazon.ca


With the volume button, one dot is off. I would never hit two dots in an apartment. You would be _that_ guy. Hated by neighbours and eventually evicted.


They sound great and I am thrilled. Total landed cost, with tax, was about $550.00 in Canuck bucks.



Shane D
Attached Thumbnails


----------



## nuraman00

sunnybirch said:


> The bass in Edifier s350db is excellent - punchy, clear, no hearable rattling, well balanced. For example, on Edifier S350DB, Stevie Wonder - Superstition sounds remarkably better, alive, wide and unified. The song is "alive". Though that wasnt the case on JBL 305.
> I connected JBL305 on AVR UPS, used different 3.5mm to 1/4 TS mono cables (Hosa CMP, even Black Rhodium) - whatever cables ive used they still had a noticeable hiss. They produced hiss when disconnected from sound source, so it was the amp itself that had problems.
> 
> As for Edifier S350DB i didnt even had to test different cables. Packaged with the system there are RCA and digital optical cables. Right out of the box ive connected them via bluetooth (aptx supported) and the sound was a pleasure. Then i tried RCA connection to laptop (acer a717g, which has realtek "junk" dac): they performed extremelly well. Clear highs and mids, punchy bass, no rattling, soundstage was open, room was filled with sound (6x4x3m) and there was no distortion on any volume level. For the price - they are remarkable.
> You can check the review on youtube (i saw it after buying




I have not watched the video yet, but will soon.  Thanks for posting it.

Why don't you like the realtek DAC?  I'm partially asking because I have a new PC with a built-in ESS Sabre Hi-Fi ES9023P DAC.  I haven't really tested it, since one of my speakers just started hissing.  So it's not a great time to test things.  I sent it in for repair, it should arrive there tomorrow.  Hopefully Emotiva can fix it.  Do you have any thoughts on that DAC that's on my motherboard?  I didn't pay as much attention to it, because there were other more important items when choosing my motherboard.



Shane D said:


> One last update as the system is now complete:
> 
> Now elevated. It makes a huge difference, but not just the angle.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the post, and for providing details about your setup.

I too had to figure out how to get the best placement for my Airmotiv 6s, when I got them.  It took a few weeks, but having just the right angle made a big difference.


----------



## Pharmaboy

I've never had monitors w/pleated ribbon tweeters like the Airmotivs. But from what I read, it's particularly important to get the height of these monitors dialed in (vs height of one's head/ears while seated) because those tweeters have very limited vertical dispersion.

They make up for it w/all kinds of horizontal dispersion, though. 

And speaking of computer speakers--I just ordered a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 225s (got a great price). I've been very interested in these, curious how they'd sound in place of my very very good passive monitors (ATC SCM12 Pro's). 

The ATCs aren't going anywhere (they'll be stored while the 225s are IMS). I just want to hear a differently "voiced" monitor. And it's important to note that the 225s are said to be nearly impervious to position vs the back wall. I can only get the monitors ~1 ft. from back wall (most take up w/large picture window covered w/dense blinds). The ATCs, being a sealed design, are also good for this kind of placement.

Will report back when I've heard the 225s.

All this is making me very glad I picked up a high quality class D amp that is standing on its side on my cramped desktop (ventilation is nearly irrelevant w/class D amps). That opened up the whole issue of trying different passives.


----------



## nuraman00

Pharmaboy said:


> I've never had monitors w/pleated ribbon tweeters like the Airmotivs. But from what I read, it's particularly important to get the height of these monitors dialed in (vs height of one's head/ears while seated) because those tweeters have very limited vertical dispersion.
> 
> They make up for it w/all kinds of horizontal dispersion, though.
> 
> ...



Thank you.  If my Airmotiv 6s can't be repaired and I have to look for a new set (rather than having a mis-matched set), I will consider the Diamond 225.

Also look forward to your feedback about them.


----------



## Pharmaboy

nuraman00 said:


> Thank you.  If my Airmotiv 6s can't be repaired and I have to look for a new set (rather than having a mis-matched set), I will consider the Diamond 225.
> 
> Also look forward to your feedback about them.



N.P.

And forgive me if I'm repeating myself now (am in a hurry & no time to check past posts here)-- but if you really like that ribbon sound, I've heard a lot of good things about the HEDD audio monitors. The smaller one w/5" woofer is the "Type 05," and the larger one w/7" monitor is the "Type 07."

These are nearfields said to sound very musical. I would have one right now except the small one was a bit undersized for my desk, and the big one is a big too large.

They're not cheap, but when you get music studio pros to say nice things about monitor sound, it must sound pretty good (because the pros are not listening for music appreciation and don't usually pay much attention to that).

(for what it's worth).


----------



## sunnybirch

nuraman00 said:


> I have not watched the video yet, but will soon.  Thanks for posting it.
> 
> Why don't you like the realtek DAC?  I'm partially asking because I have a new PC with a built-in ESS Sabre Hi-Fi ES9023P DAC.  I haven't really tested it, since one of my speakers just started hissing.  So it's not a great time to test things.  I sent it in for repair, it should arrive there tomorrow.  Hopefully Emotiva can fix it.  Do you have any thoughts on that DAC that's on my motherboard?  I didn't pay as much attention to it, because there were other more important items when choosing my motherboard.
> 
> ...



Realtek DAC in Acer A717 is low quality converter. Sort of a low budget solution in expensive laptop  Compared to Focusrite Scarlet DAC (when connected from PC > USB > Focusrite > Active speakers) - Focusrite provided much better sound quality (imaging, full bodied sound). I dont have any experience with Sabre ES9023P DAC, but its certainly much better then generic Realtek. According to specifications it features 2Vrms Driver (0.5 Vrms in Realtek), 112dB dynamic range and jitter reduction.


----------



## Pharmaboy

*Update on my monitor speaker set-up:*
For the past 2+ weeks I've been slowly burning in a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 225s (installed where the ATC SCM 12 Pros usually go, powered by a big Wyred 4 Sound ST-500 class D amp). Last night I finally had the opportunity to crank them up. Very interesting contrast between these 2 rather different monitors:

The Diamonds are obviously less focused, precise, clear, and detailed than the ATCs. They have a more diffuse, resonant sound. After the squeeky-clean clarity of the ATCs, this takes getting used to. On streaming radio, announcers voices seem a foot or two behind the speaker (spatial differences there).
The Diamonds sound pleasing but nothing special at low volume
However, when they're cranked, they get real fun. Still somewhat diffuse & resonant, but way bigger. The tonality is pleasing, as many have said--the opposite of bright & edgy. I can crank them pretty loud and never feel uncomfortable.
The Diamonds' mids are pleasing, but nowhere near the density of musical information at the ATCs
The 225s ported bass is again, somewhat diffuse (sorry!) compared to the ATCs' whip-crack sealed bass. But it's still good, and at higher volume, sound very good, indeed.
The ATCs are really the inverse of the 225s: superbly clear at any volume, dynamic as all hell, not bright but also not particularly forgiving. These are studio monitors, and they show you everything in your system & music (I mean that in a good way).

Think I have a real ying/yang situation w/these 2 pairs of monitors/speakers. I'll switch them out every 3-4 months to get a new musical experience...


----------



## nuraman00

Pharmaboy said:


> *Update on my monitor speaker set-up:*
> For the past 2+ weeks I've been slowly burning in a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 225s (installed where the ATC SCM 12 Pros usually go, powered by a big Wyred 4 Sound ST-500 class D amp). Last night I finally had the opportunity to crank them up. Very interesting contrast between these 2 rather different monitors:
> 
> The Diamonds are obviously less focused, precise, clear, and detailed than the ATCs. They have a more diffuse, resonant sound. After the squeeky-clean clarity of the ATCs, this takes getting used to. On streaming radio, announcers voices seem a foot or two behind the speaker (spatial differences there).
> ...



Thanks for sharing.  Sounds like you have some good options, whenever you feel like a change.


----------



## nuraman00

Emotiva contacted me today and said they repaired my unit, and will ship it back.

Here's what they had to do:

+++++++++++++

Extensive overhaul of Power Amp PCB.

Replace 15 capacitors, 3 Molex headers and touch up overheated solder throughout the power amp. Clean preamp pcb; tests silent.


----------



## Pharmaboy

nuraman00 said:


> Emotiva contacted me today and said they repaired my unit, and will ship it back.
> 
> Here's what they had to do:
> 
> ...



Hope it didn't cost much--and that it sounds better than new.


----------



## freesole

I was recently in this predicament. I originally had the Audioengine A2+ based on reviews and really did not like the way they sounded. Boomy, unresolving - sounded like a very cheap speaker. I got rid of them and picked up the KEF LS50 Wireless instead (a big jump up) and they are just perfect for nearfield listening. They are wireless and operate as a Roon Endpoint.


----------



## Pharmaboy

freesole said:


> I was recently in this predicament. I originally had the Audioengine A2+ based on reviews and really did not like the way they sounded. Boomy, unresolving - sounded like a very cheap speaker. I got rid of them and picked up the KEF LS50 Wireless instead (a big jump up) and they are just perfect for nearfield listening. They are wireless and operate as a Roon Endpoint.



I've heard much praise of this KEF speaker. Glad it works for you.

Without casting aspersions on speakers people here love, I've found that "computer speakers" (intended to be run from the output of sound cards) aren't comparable to powered studio monitors, studio passives, or consumer passives. So you took a giant step up. 

It's not only how much speakers cost--it's about the size & quality of the drivers, the enclosure design, crossover quality, and intended "voicing." My Wharfedale Diamond 225s cost ~25% of the ATC SCM12 Pros, but both are very satisfying in their own ways. And both are quite different from computer speakers...

I lived happily w/computer speakers for a long time. Then I read a review in 2007 (of a powered 2.1 system + DAC) in STEREOPHILE, and suddenly realized there was an entire ladder of escalating quality in desktop audio (really hadn't thought about it before). I bought that system (long gone, by now) and never looked back.


----------



## Zenvota

Just thought I'd add this in here for people that want a good desktop speaker system but can't have one.  Desktop speakers were right out for me for both home and office, so I built headphone systems to use as virtual loudspeaker systems using Out of Your Head, see sig.  They double as 7.1 surround systems and can change the speakers with a push of a button.  Maybe it sounds gimmicky but I can attest to the fidelity, the externalization, its really quite marvelous, and you can add tactile transducer systems to add to the externalization and immersion.


----------



## nuraman00

Pharmaboy said:


> Hope it didn't cost much--and that it sounds better than new.



It was still under warranty, so the repair was free.

But the shipping was $80.  I made a mistake and said the declared value was $250.  If I had said the declared value was $100 or less, it would have been $10 less.


----------



## Dobrescu George

I made a review on Edifier Luna e25  

Beautiful aesthetic, good sound for the price  

https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2019/04/liquid-sound-edifier-e25-luna-speaker-review.html


----------



## blackdragon87

Interesting thread. Just got rid of my. MM1 so in the market for a new pair. Will listen to suggestions here, thx


----------



## Dobrescu George

blackdragon87 said:


> Interesting thread. Just got rid of my. MM1 so in the market for a new pair. Will listen to suggestions here, thx



What price range are you looking at, and what type of sound / what type of speaker?


----------



## blackdragon87

Dobrescu George said:


> What price range are you looking at, and what type of sound / what type of speaker?



Less than 400. Was looking at the PSB Alpha PS1 from massdrop but shipping to Canada unavailable


----------



## Dobrescu George

blackdragon87 said:


> Less than 400. Was looking at the PSB Alpha PS1 from massdrop but shipping to Canada unavailable



I see, haven't heard that one actually (?) 

Not sure if I can recommend anything better in that price range


----------



## nuraman00

blackdragon87 said:


> Less than 400. Was looking at the PSB Alpha PS1 from massdrop but shipping to Canada unavailable



Let us know what you get and how you like it.  Or if you have any more questions.


----------



## Varmintbaby

Pharmaboy said:


> I've heard much praise of this KEF speaker. Glad it works for you.
> 
> Without casting aspersions on speakers people here love, I've found that "computer speakers" (intended to be run from the output of sound cards) aren't comparable to powered studio monitors, studio passives, or consumer passives. So you took a giant step up.
> 
> ...



@Pharmaboy My primary "source" is my desktop PC with ASUS STX II sound card in it.  How would I connect the Diamond 225 speakers to something like that? The card has RCA out, headphone out (1/4), line input (1/4), and coaxial output. Please let me know what you think. I found them on Amazon and like the look and reviews that it's been getting, plus your review. Lemme know man. Thanks!


----------



## Pharmaboy

Varmintbaby said:


> @Pharmaboy My primary "source" is my desktop PC with ASUS STX II sound card in it.  How would I connect the Diamond 225 speakers to something like that? The card has RCA out, headphone out (1/4), line input (1/4), and coaxial output. Please let me know what you think. I found them on Amazon and like the look and reviews that it's been getting, plus your review. Lemme know man. Thanks!



That's probably a more than decent sound card. But a soundcard, no matter how good, doesn't amplify the signal being outputted. It really only connects readily to powered speakers/monitors, not passives like these Wharfedales. There are any number of powered monitors that probably sound as good as the Wharfedales, but they'll typically cost a bit more.

Anyway, to make your soundcard work w/these Wharfedales, you'd need to purchase a small amplifier of some kind, taking the RCA output pair from the soundcard, amplifying it, then sending that speaker-level signal via speaker cables to the Wharfedales. But if it was just an amp (ie, no volume or tone controls),  that would leave volume control on the computer side, more than likely in the digital domain, which can degrade sonic output (via truncation of bits).

A compact amp/preamp would do all this nicel, including analog volume control. One example: https://hifiheaven.net/shop/PS-Audi...68vNxfogHXXsA0DYdCeBOkxXFlFjEoKBoCdOwQAvD_BwE


----------



## The Socialist Nerd

For computer speakers I am tempted to get a pair of Triangle Elara LN01A's for both (or either) my desktops and laptops. They are active speakers and they offer a Bluetooth option that is pretty much up to par with the current offerings. Since the Triangles can take the 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable, I am pretty sure that I would prefer these speakers over the rather traditional offerings.


----------



## Rudrax

sunnybirch said:


> The bass in Edifier s350db is excellent - punchy, clear, no hearable rattling, well balanced. For example, on Edifier S350DB, Stevie Wonder - Superstition sounds remarkably better, alive, wide and unified. The song is "alive". Though that wasnt the case on JBL 305.
> I connected JBL305 on AVR UPS, used different 3.5mm to 1/4 TS mono cables (Hosa CMP, even Black Rhodium) - whatever cables ive used they still had a noticeable hiss. They produced hiss when disconnected from sound source, so it was the amp itself that had problems.
> 
> As for Edifier S350DB i didnt even had to test different cables. Packaged with the system there are RCA and digital optical cables. Right out of the box ive connected them via bluetooth (aptx supported) and the sound was a pleasure. Then i tried RCA connection to laptop (acer a717g, which has realtek "junk" dac): they performed extremelly well. Clear highs and mids, punchy bass, no rattling, soundstage was open, room was filled with sound (6x4x3m) and there was no distortion on any volume level. For the price - they are remarkable.
> You can check the review on youtube (i saw it after buying


 


Bro how does Edifier s350db compares with swan m50w


----------



## The Socialist Nerd

Rudrax said:


> Bro how does Edifier s350db compares with swan m50w



I am leaning more towards having an active speaker set for my computer...


----------



## sunnybirch

Rudrax said:


> Bro how does Edifier s350db compares with swan m50w


Didnt tested Swan m50w. Although, according to reviews, swan should also perform good.


----------



## Rudrax (Jun 26, 2019)

sunnybirch said:


> Didnt tested Swan m50w. Although, according to reviews, swan should also perform good.


I know both sound great in the same prize range,,but i am confused between these two in terms of sound quality,which one sounds better and what is the difference ,can't find comparison anywhere,


----------



## nuraman00

@Rudrax, let us know what you decide, and how they sound.  I was wondering about the Swan m50w myself a few years ago.


----------



## Nevi

I had a pair of modified Yamaha HS7 with the HS8 sub. Then I heard Kefs LS 50W. They were awesome, but expensive, so I looked at LSX. First I thought they were too small, but when I heard them I was sold. I use mine with a Bowers and Wilkins ASW 608. Their depth and imaging is really good.


----------



## The Socialist Nerd

Leaning to getting these https://www.triangle-fr.com/en/ln01a for my new home office


----------



## anicai

sunnybirch said:


> In the end i bought Edifier S350DB: excellent connectivity, well balanced dsp switching of lower frequencies to subwoofer, unified sound, nice soundstage... They can compete with three times more expensive speakers. For now i can recommend these as best buy under 500$.


Hi! I'm thinking about buying S350DB speakers as well. Is it ok to connect them to on board audio using 3.5mm analog port? Or do they require dedicated sound card? I have realtek alc887 on Asus prime b350-plus mobo.


----------



## The Socialist Nerd

I ordered the Triangle speakers so I will update folks on how well these go...


----------



## lhydavid

I have a pair of Presonus Eris 4.5 reference speakers that I use for my desktop. 
Mount them on some isoacoustics stands and enjoy open, clean, clear sound!
The only down side is bass though, not that it is bad, just that being only a 4.5" woofer, the bass just can't get quite as low and this is due more to practical physics than anything else. 
It goes to ~ 68hz. If I had space, I would have gone for a 6" minimum. 
Then again, I have it on my desktop, so I can't complain. 
Good for gaming, listening, and my workout sessions since I have my lifting rack and weights in the same room.


----------



## Rayz

You would really like to try the SOLO series of Microlab. those are a very amazing speakers--or should I call them: fun monitors.
I don't think they are selling on USA, but they are very known in europe.


----------



## The Socialist Nerd

Rayz said:


> You would really like to try the SOLO series of Microlab. those are a very amazing speakers--or should I call them: fun monitors.
> I don't think they are selling on USA, but they are very known in europe.



Fun, yes, but are they accurate or detailed? I want a solid balance. Like Beats and Bose are fun stuff but ummmm.... accurate. About as accurate as throwing darts against a Samsung fridge.


----------



## Rayz

The Socialist Nerd said:


> Fun, yes, but are they accurate or detailed?



They are VERY accurate, and details oriented. 
let's say that: I've heard some bigger and pricier setups that didn't do what these can do.


----------



## The Socialist Nerd

Rayz said:


> They are VERY accurate, and details oriented.
> let's say that: I've heard some bigger and pricier setups that didn't do what these can do.



Cool beans. Looks like we have a few of their models available in the US via Amazon so apparently it's not hard to procure some. It was a pain in the tush of Kush to get my pair of Triangle but luckily I have a private audio dealer here in SLC.


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## Rayz (Jul 13, 2019)

The Socialist Nerd said:


> Looks like we have a few of their models available in the US via Amazon



Yep, saw it too. but this is not the whole line of Microlab. my recommendations goes for SOLO 6C, SOLO7C (I have both). SOLO 8C and 9C supposed to be better, but word is they sound less good compares to the older SOLO 6C/7C.


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## mwhals (Jul 13, 2019)

What active speaker is recommended for placing on a shelf above my monitors? Prefer no built in DAC, because I need volume on my desktop with something like a Schiit Sys. Would a near field work that way. Here is a picture of my desktop now.


----------



## Pharmaboy

mwhals said:


> What active speaker is recommended for placing on a shelf above my monitors. Prefer no built in DAC, because I need volume on my desktop with something like a Schiit Sys.



I assume you mean computer monitors? If so, how concerned are you with high fidelity, the best sound quality, etc? Are these speakers for convenience, or just casual listening?

The subtext for my question is that a shelf above monitors is probably not an optimal location for actives or passive monitors if top-quality sound is the goal. For one thing, the actives would be well above ear level; for another, it's possible theye're up close to the back wall (can't be sure about this/seen a picture of your space).


----------



## mwhals (Jul 13, 2019)

Pharmaboy said:


> I assume you mean computer monitors? If so, how concerned are you with high fidelity, the best sound quality, etc? Are these speakers for convenience, or just casual listening?
> 
> The subtext for my question is that a shelf above monitors is probably not an optimal location for actives or passive monitors if top-quality sound is the goal. For one thing, the actives would be well above ear level; for another, it's possible theye're up close to the back wall (can't be sure about this/seen a picture of your space).



I have headphones and a Milo for great sound. I want to free up desktop space and improve my sound. An alternative would be speakers that can fit under my computer monitors. I added a picture after you quoted me. I would add a Schiit Modi and Sys, but would consider active speakers with included DAC if volume is on the front.


----------



## Pharmaboy

mwhals said:


> I have headphones and a Milo for great sound. I want to free up desktop space and improve my sound. An alternative would be speakers that can fit under my computer monitors. I added a picture after you quoted me. I would add a Schiit Modi and Sys, but would consider active speakers with included DAC if volume is on the front.



That's a pretty funky place to put speakers--ie, under monitors or over them. Over is nuts--they'd be too far above your ears. But under has its own issues.

Here's an off-the-wall thought: get the Vanatoo Transparent One Encore (link below), which has a built-in DAC & remote-controlled volume. Put each monitor on its side under your monitors: with the left active speaker's tweeter on the left/outside; and the right active speaker's tweeter on the right/outside. Sited that way, these actives wouldn't image normally, but might otherwise sound decent. 

https://vanatoo.com/shop/speakers/transparent-one-encore/

These are not high-end designs, but rather compact, relatively well designed mid-fi desktop actives. Many people like these for nearfield application.

Like any nearfield active or passive speakers, these would sound their best if located at equilateral distances from L/R ears, and with some space between them & back wall. But you really can't do that in this constrained space...


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## mwhals (Jul 13, 2019)

Pharmaboy said:


> That's a pretty funky place to put speakers--ie, under monitors or over them. Over is nuts--they'd be too far above your ears. But under has its own issues.
> 
> Here's an off-the-wall thought: get the Vanatoo Transparent One Encore (link below), which has a built-in DAC & remote-controlled volume. Put each monitor on its side under your monitors: with the left active speaker's tweeter on the left/outside; and the right active speaker's tweeter on the right/outside. Sited that way, these actives wouldn't image normally, but might otherwise sound decent.
> 
> ...



I could put them on either side of the monitors, but would need to relocate a mail rack on the right side of the desk ( not in picture) The monitors are centered on the desk. I was hoping to be under $300 to $400 for active speakers with built in DAC. Also, do not want Bluetooth connectivity as the living room system has really nice tower speakers with a preamps receiver that has Bluetooth.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Well, that's a low budget--it's possible to get actives w/a DAC for that little, but whatever you get will be relatively small & will verge on computer speaker quality.  

You may want to look at various Edifier models...


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## mwhals (Jul 13, 2019)

Pharmaboy said:


> Well, that's a low budget--it's possible to get actives w/a DAC for that little, but whatever you get will be relatively small & will verge on computer speaker quality.
> 
> You may want to look at various Edifier models...



I don’t necessarily need a DAC, but my desktop is constrained to the point my Milo is behind my monitors, so adding a DAC makes it worse. I do like the ones you linked. I added them to my Amazon cart, because I have nearly $300 in gift card balance and enough Shopkick kicks for another $200 in Amazon gift cards. That makes my net only a little over $100 out of pocket. Also the remote makes it easy to adjust the volume or mute it when using headphones.


----------



## mwhals

Pharmaboy said:


> That's a pretty funky place to put speakers--ie, under monitors or over them. Over is nuts--they'd be too far above your ears. But under has its own issues.
> 
> Here's an off-the-wall thought: get the Vanatoo Transparent One Encore (link below), which has a built-in DAC & remote-controlled volume. Put each monitor on its side under your monitors: with the left active speaker's tweeter on the left/outside; and the right active speaker's tweeter on the right/outside. Sited that way, these actives wouldn't image normally, but might otherwise sound decent.
> 
> ...



I wonder how the Transparent One Encore compares to the Adam A5X. Of course I would need to add another DAC that can stack on top of my Metrum Musette. I could also use my Metrum Musette and add a Schiit Sys to use the same DAC with speakers and my headphone amp.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/A5X--adam-audio-a5x-5.5-inch-powered-studio-monitor


----------



## Pharmaboy

early in 2018 I read 100s of comments about all the powered studio monitors that music professionals tend to use. I was looking for a true sonic unicorn: a powered studio monitor that actually sounded good for music reproduction (as opposed to the forensic sound that music tracking & production requires). I read a many comments about various Adam monitors. Most didn't mention sound at all, but among those that did, it seemed to fall in 2 camps: users who loved the incisive, detailed sound of their ribbon tweeters; vs those who found them intolerably bright/edgy. 

I didn't even mention monitors like entry level Adam because they typically cost more than your budget, and usually don't have built in DAC or remote controllable volume.


----------



## mwhals (Jul 14, 2019)

Pharmaboy said:


> early in 2018 I read 100s of comments about all the powered studio monitors that music professionals tend to use. I was looking for a true sonic unicorn: a powered studio monitor that actually sounded good for music reproduction (as opposed to the forensic sound that music tracking & production requires). I read a many comments about various Adam monitors. Most didn't mention sound at all, but among those that did, it seemed to fall in 2 camps: users who loved the incisive, detailed sound of their ribbon tweeters; vs those who found them intolerably bright/edgy.
> 
> I didn't even mention monitors like entry level Adam because they typically cost more than your budget, and usually don't have built in DAC or remote controllable volume.



It sounds like the one you linked is the best option so I don’t end up with a volume controlled Sys in front of a volume controlled Milo. I prefer not to have double volume knobs.

I also like that the one you linked has a longer cable for connecting the two speakers. My issue now is that the Bose cable is not long enough to place each speaker on either side of the two 24” monitors.


----------



## Pharmaboy

I should also explain a built-in advantage I have in my system, that avoids multiple in-line volume pots:

The DAC I used IMS for 3 ys, Audio GD NOS 19, was modded at my request to have 2 pairs of RCA outputs, both live all the time.
The one I just upgraded to, MHDT Labs Orchid, was modded in the same way
So one RCA output pair goes to a headphone amp/preamp (Violectric V281), on which I can listen to headphones anytime I want.
The V281's line-out goes to an amp which powers my passive studio monitors.
The 2nd RCA output of the DAC goes to any other headphone amp I feel like installing (I have a number of amps, and change them fairly often). Right now that 2nd RCA output goes to a Lake People G109-A amp, on which I have a new headphone (AQ Nighthawk Carbon) burning in)
Note the volumes I use on the speakers vs 2nd amp can be totally different. I can also have the speakers on & 2nd amp not on; or the reverse.
I'm totally used to this very convenient DAC-has-2-outputs scenario...


----------



## bzippy

mwhals said:


> What active speaker is recommended for placing on a shelf above my monitors? Prefer no built in DAC, because I need volume on my desktop with something like a Schiit Sys. Would a near field work that way. Here is a picture of my desktop now.



Have you every heard any Audioengine speakers? I really like my little A2's.


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## mwhals

bzippy said:


> Have you every heard any Audioengine speakers? I really like my little A2's.



I haven't heard any of them.


----------



## mwhals

The Vanatoo T0 is getting good reviews too, but I like the T1e better if I can get it to fit. If not,  I will give the T0 a look.


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## Donut (Aug 24, 2019)

So I'm looking at getting a new set of speakers for my computer in my bedroom - a small room. The speakers currently connected to my computer - Logitech Z-5300 - actually work fine. But all of the inputs for my headphones to my computer are no longer functional, and that's a much more serious problem. I had a Schitt Magni-Modi combo I was using early on but a storm shorted them out. The headphone jack on my speakers haven't worked in awhile, and the headphone jack directly on my computer doesn't really work anymore, either. So I'm taking the opportunity to upgrade my overall speakers.

I'm looking for a pair of powered bookshelf speakers and a subwoofer to match up. I want to be able to directly connect them to my computer - it's onboard Realtek, but I do have a spdif optical port in the back, so that's something. Trying to keep the whole thing under ~ US$700 has proven somewhat difficult. My original plan was to get the Audioengine A5+ and the S8 sub to match. Right now I'm close to wanting to pull the trigger on a pair of Kanto YU6 & a SVS SB1000 sub. That combo sounds like I could hook them up really easily to my computer, and while the total price is a bit above what I was originally looking at, it seems like it's worth the price. However, looking at Kanto's website they seem to have a newer set of speakers that will be out in a couple weeks - the TUK. There's a big part of me that wants to match the Kanto TUK with the SVS SB2000 sub. This combination is double my original budget but from what I can gather it might actually be worth it. Any route I go it feels like I'm destined to get a specific separate headphone amp/maybe DAC to use. Audioquest Dragonfly Red or iFi Nano iDSD Black Label seem like the ideal options for me in this realm.

I should note that speaker usage will be split between music & movies/TV. Space is a bit of an issue so getting speakers that are too big would be a problem.

Any opinions here? Am I wrong in my thinking? Or am I missing something? Any input is greatly appreciated.


----------



## Varmintbaby (Aug 24, 2019)

Donut said:


> So I'm looking at getting a new set of speakers for my computer in my bedroom - a small room. The speakers currently connected to my computer - Logitech Z-5300 - actually work fine. But all of the inputs for my headphones to my computer are no longer functional, and that's a much more serious problem. I had a Schitt Magni-Modi combo I was using early on but a storm shorted them out. The headphone jack on my speakers haven't worked in awhile, and the headphone jack directly on my computer doesn't really work anymore, either. So I'm taking the opportunity to upgrade my overall speakers.
> 
> I'm looking for a pair of powered bookshelf speakers and a subwoofer to match up. I want to be able to directly connect them to my computer - it's onboard Realtek, but I do have a spdif optical port in the back, so that's something. Trying to keep the whole thing under ~ US$700 has proven somewhat difficult. My original plan was to get the Audioengine A5+ and the S8 sub to match. Right now I'm close to wanting to pull the trigger on a pair of Kanto YU6 & a SVS SB1000 sub. That combo sounds like I could hook them up really easily to my computer, and while the total price is a bit above what I was originally looking at, it seems like it's worth the price. However, looking at Kanto's website they seem to have a newer set of speakers that will be out in a couple weeks - the TUK. There's a big part of me that wants to match the Kanto TUK with the SVS SB2000 sub. This combination is double my original budget but from what I can gather it might actually be worth it. Any route I go it feels like I'm destined to get a specific separate headphone amp/maybe DAC to use. Audioquest Dragonfly Red or iFi Nano iDSD Black Label seem like the ideal options for me in this realm.
> 
> ...




You don't really need a sub though dude. Especially not for a smaller room and for a computer. I would highly recommend the Pioneer DM-40 or if you need Bluetooth DM-40BT. They have plenty of base for a room, even a large room. They can get very loud and have RCA and 3.5mm input on the back. You get a pair and they go for $149. I use them as my master speakers when I practice DJing off my DJ controller. I have XLR cables out of the Pioneer DDJ-SX2 controller going to RCA on the back of the DM-40s.  As long as your sound card has 3.5mm out, you can just run a 3.5mm cable to the DM-40s. Again, I can't state how awesome these speakers sound for the price. They really perform well above their paygrade. I upgraded to them from Samson MediaOne M30's and the DM-40s blew those out the water. They are clear, loud and have great bass. Check them out I promise you won't be disappointed.

P.S. A sub is needed when you have a large room with a lot of human beings occupying it. Just the speakers won't keep the bass audible because that many people absorbs the lower frequencies that bass rolls at.  Someone once told me that it's the water in our bodies that causes that, but who knows. Anyway, for your situation, it's not required.


----------



## Donut

Thanks for the heads up; I'll look into the Pioneers. I don't need Bluetooth or wireless connectivity at the moment.

Insofar as a sub is concerned, it makes a big difference for me. I've had a speaker system with a sub connected to my computer for a long time. I've listened to speakers without a sub, and unless they're the bigger, higher end type that can reach down low I always end up missing the sub. The speakers that I've looked at and would consider forgoing a sub with seem to be either too big or out of my price range. I still haven't taken going without a sub off the table, though, at least for the right speakers.


----------



## nuraman00

Donut said:


> Thanks for the heads up; I'll look into the Pioneers. I don't need Bluetooth or wireless connectivity at the moment.
> 
> Insofar as a sub is concerned, it makes a big difference for me. I've had a speaker system with a sub connected to my computer for a long time. I've listened to speakers without a sub, and unless they're the bigger, higher end type that can reach down low I always end up missing the sub. The speakers that I've looked at and would consider forgoing a sub with seem to be either too big or out of my price range. I still haven't taken going without a sub off the table, though, at least for the right speakers.



I'm the one that started this thread, in 2016.

I too have my speakers connected to my computer.

I ended up comparing the JBL LSR 308 side by side with the Emotiva Airmotiv 6s.  My prior speakers, which I had for 17 years, were a 2.1 set, so they had a sub.

I went with the Airmotiv 6s, but still feel that with certain songs or types of music, I miss a sub.  I regret not comparing with the Swan m50w side by side, to see what I thought of a system with a sub during this time.

90% of the time, I don't miss a sub, but about 10% of the time, with certain songs, I do.

Yes, I can still add a sub later, but it's a future wishlist plan to add a DAC and sub.  It's not something I can spend on right now.  Back in 2016, would have been the time to properly budget and evaluate.

This is the first I've seen for a recommendation for the Pioneer DM-40s.  I am a fan of Pioneer for video and audio products in general, as I've always had a good experience and quality with them.  So I would consider that recommendation.

I've also seen a lot of recommendations for the SVS-1000.  Given that the price difference between a SVS-2000 and 1000 isn't that much IMO, I'd probably go with the 2000.  But again, for me, this is why this plus a DAC would have to be a future purchase, and not something I can buy until I'm ready to spend that much.

Perhaps the Pioneer DM-40s with one of the SVS subs is a more affordable but still good option.

Also, from your earlier post, did you mean you have a Schitt DAC?  How do you like it?

Perhaps get a few different things from a retailer that allows returns, like I did, so you can compare a few different options and see what you think.  You'll have to pay for return shipping.  But it doesn't sound like you're getting things that are too big, like the ones that I did, so maybe the return shipping won't cost so much.


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## radosuaf (Aug 26, 2019)

Looking for a replacement for my Creative A60 - these are standing on my office desk, so the replacement should have a small footprint and blend nicely in the surrounding - small black boxes would be perfect. Is there anything better than GigaWorks T20 I can get for a decent price (~60 USD)? Obviously, Audioengine A2 are over the budget .


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## mariopepper (Aug 28, 2019)

What about sonos playbar soundtouch? Nice speakers as I know. I used to check reviews about different models of sonos/bose https://whatever-tech.com/sonos-play1-vs-bose-soundtouch10-reviews/ and I suppose it's good option to take


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## mwhals (Aug 26, 2019)

mariopepper said:


> What about sonos playbar soundtouch? Nice speakers as I know



Soundtouch is Bose and I don't believe those soundbars work well with PCs for audio compared to the other speakers mentioned in this thread.


----------



## aisalen

I am also looking for one and my short listed are the Edifier R1850DB, R2000DB or S350DB. I do not want to invest so much as I do have both portable and desktop headphone system. I am probably getting the R2000DB due to small footprint compared with S350DB and yet have ample bass compared to R1850DB. You can get at least some idea how it sounds for your target speaker from Digital Stereophony in YT, but of course, demoing in person is a much ideal one.


----------



## Pharmaboy

nuraman00 said:


> I'm the one that started this thread, in 2016.
> 
> I too have my speakers connected to my computer.
> 
> ...



I have a single SVS SB-1000 & love it. Great sound for little $$. I would have gladly gotten an SB-2000 instead, but no room for that. My fantasy is to get a 2nd SB-1000 and somehow carve out space for it in my crowded home office (which already holds a shtt-ton of audio gear).

But one word of caution about the SB-1000. When I first installed it in place of an old 8" NHT sub (excellent), I did what I had done w/the NHT: ran the RCA output pair from the preamp to the input of the sub; and then a 2nd RCA output pair connecting the sub's output (low-pass filtered to remove frequencies below 80Hz @a slope of 12 dB/octave). That worked extremely well--clearly the little passive crossover was very transparent. But when I tried the same thing w/the SB-1000, the sound via the speakers was unsatisfactory. 

Finally I inserted a quality external cross-over in the system (Marchand XM66); this divides the input signal into high- and low-pass filtered outputs (80H @24dB/octave). The resulting sound is quite transparent. But I never would've gone in that direction if the SB-1000's crossover had done the trick.


----------



## nuraman00

Pharmaboy said:


> I have a single SVS SB-1000 & love it. Great sound for little $$. I would have gladly gotten an SB-2000 instead, but no room for that. My fantasy is to get a 2nd SB-1000 and somehow carve out space for it in my crowded home office (which already holds a shtt-ton of audio gear).
> 
> But one word of caution about the SB-1000. When I first installed it in place of an old 8" NHT sub (excellent), I did what I had done w/the NHT: ran the RCA output pair from the preamp to the input of the sub; and then a 2nd RCA output pair connecting the sub's output (low-pass filtered to remove frequencies below 80Hz @a slope of 12 dB/octave). That worked extremely well--clearly the little passive crossover was very transparent. But when I tried the same thing w/the SB-1000, the sound via the speakers was unsatisfactory.
> 
> Finally I inserted a quality external cross-over in the system (Marchand XM66); this divides the input signal into high- and low-pass filtered outputs (80H @24dB/octave). The resulting sound is quite transparent. But I never would've gone in that direction if the SB-1000's crossover had done the trick.



Thanks.  So you think you need a cross-over equalizer, with the SB-1000, to get good sound?  What was the exact problem with the sound without the equalizer?


----------



## Donut

nuraman00 said:


> Also, from your earlier post, did you mean you have a Schitt DAC?  How do you like it?


 Yeah, I had one. I had it connected to an old surge protector that apparently no longer worked because a storm blew it & I never replaced it. I was really happy with it at the time, though it was my first time using a separate amp & DAC with headphones.



Pharmaboy said:


> I have a single SVS SB-1000 & love it. Great sound for little $$. I would have gladly gotten an SB-2000 instead, but no room for that. My fantasy is to get a 2nd SB-1000 and somehow carve out space for it in my crowded home office (which already holds a shtt-ton of audio gear).
> 
> But one word of caution about the SB-1000. When I first installed it in place of an old 8" NHT sub (excellent), I did what I had done w/the NHT: ran the RCA output pair from the preamp to the input of the sub; and then a 2nd RCA output pair connecting the sub's output (low-pass filtered to remove frequencies below 80Hz @a slope of 12 dB/octave). That worked extremely well--clearly the little passive crossover was very transparent. But when I tried the same thing w/the SB-1000, the sound via the speakers was unsatisfactory.
> 
> Finally I inserted a quality external cross-over in the system (Marchand XM66); this divides the input signal into high- and low-pass filtered outputs (80H @24dB/octave). The resulting sound is quite transparent. But I never would've gone in that direction if the SB-1000's crossover had done the trick.


 This is an interesting note. I'm not entirely positive I have the space for the SB-2000, so I might stick to the 1000. I've never messed with anything like external crossovers, though; it sounded like that was a necessity to get the sound lined up correctly. The crossover in the sub didn't work out?


----------



## Pharmaboy

The crossover in the SB-1000 certainly works as advertised. But I was already very familiar with the sound coming from my monitors (ATC SCM 12 Pro) and class D amplifier--and that's not the sound I got from the output of the SB-1000's crossover. It sounded grainy, rough, degraded to some extent. When I put the electronic crossover in line (not using the output of the sub), the sound snapped back into focus: all there, just what I expected. 

Matching a sub (or subs) to speakers/monitors is a pretty deep topic, not appropriate for this thread. Let's just say that I had lucked out for years w/the very good-sounding crossover on the old NHT/8" sub; then the luck stopped w/the SB-1000. Other than the crossover sound, the SB-1000 walks all over the NHT, which was awfully good for an 8", but not in the same league.


----------



## Pharmaboy (Aug 26, 2019)

nuraman00 said:


> Thanks.  So you think you need a cross-over equalizer, with the SB-1000, to get good sound?  What was the exact problem with the sound without the equalizer?



Pls see my reply to @Donut below. I should also say that I'm a long-time audiophile w/much experience w/large, high-quality 2-channel systems. For lifestyle reasons, all that went away in the early '90s, and by the late '90s, I had my home office set up and cooking w/the 1st 2.1 computer audio system. I steadily improved that system over the years, and IMO it has reached a very good balance between high resolution (the ATC monitors are quite resolving) and musicality (the ATCs + NOS DAC, powerful/good class D amp, and Violectric V281 as preamp).

All to say I could really hear the fact that the RCA output of the SB-1000 didn't sound nearly as good, as faithful to the real sound of my system, as had the output of a 10 year old 8" NHT sub. No idea why. These are passive crossovers, built at a price point and included for user convenience. I seriously doubt the mfr's "voice" these crossovers w/the care they voice the sub itself.

In actuality, very few reasonably priced subs have filtered outputs at all. That leaves most users to run the speakers/monitors full range along side the sub/subs. I've tried that, but to make it work, you need 2 full signal RCA outputs from the preamp (the sub has it's own variable high-pass filter that lops off frequencies above the crossover point). And using a simple 1 RCA pair in/2 RCA pairs out splitter is not an ideal way to do that...

As I said, crossovers & subs are a deep topic.


----------



## nuraman00

Donut said:


> Yeah, I had one. I had it connected to an old surge protector that apparently no longer worked because a storm blew it & I never replaced it. I was really happy with it at the time, though it was my first time using a separate amp & DAC with headphones.
> 
> This is an interesting note. I'm not entirely positive I have the space for the SB-2000, so I might stick to the 1000. I've never messed with anything like external crossovers, though; it sounded like that was a necessity to get the sound lined up correctly. The crossover in the sub didn't work out?



What model Schitt DAC did you have?

What is the space difference between a SB-1000 vs. 2000?  The dimensions look similar, only 1" bigger on each of LxWxH.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod..._piano_gloss_12_sealed_box_powered.html/specs

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod..._sealed_box_powered_subwoofer_500w.html/specs


----------



## Donut (Aug 26, 2019)

nuraman00 said:


> What model Schitt DAC did you have?
> 
> What is the space difference between a SB-1000 vs. 2000?  The dimensions look similar, only 1" bigger on each of LxWxH.
> 
> ...


 Modi. I had paired the Magni amp with the Modi DAC & created a little stack. It was fun. Kinda want to do it again, but I'm considering other options this time around [Liquid Spark looks like an interesting amp]. Again, keep in mind that it was my first experience with a standalone headphone amp & DAC.

The dimensions are similar, and the 2000 is 8 pounds heavier, but the grille on the 2000 juts out some and the space under my desk is kind of limited so every inch matters. If I'm being honest, I'm inclined to say "screw it" and get the 2000s. Depending on the speakers I wind up with, though, I might hold off a bit on the sub. Either way, the headphone dac/amp probably has to come first.


----------



## Slogra (Aug 27, 2019)

aisalen said:


> I am also looking for one and my short listed are the Edifier R1850DB, R2000DB or S350DB.



Personally i find the high frequencies of the Edifier R1850DB lacking. Even if you open up the treble, there are hardly any high frequencies coming from the tweeters. I like clear and detailed sound, so there are not the ones for me.
The S350DB on the other hand has a clear sound with really fantastic highs. If you can place the sub on the floor then you gain a lot of space on your desk as the satellites are not that big at all. The bass is a bit hard to control though, sometimes too loud, sometimes a bit lacking. Also the sub and sats including tweeters do not have a protection cover, so be careful with them. And the cable are a bit short  which will be a problem if you want to put the sub on the left side.
I have not heard the R2000DB. If it has better highs than R1850DB, then it might be a good option.

I have also heard the S1000DB. They have a interesting bassy but detailed sound. The sound is a bit restrained though, and seems to be coming from the behind the speakers. I would not call it a clear sound, although it is much better than the R1850DB.

IMHO . Just go listen to the speakers and judge for yourself.


----------



## aisalen

Slogra said:


> Personally i find the high frequencies of the Edifier R1850DB lacking. Even if you open up the treble, there are hardly any high frequencies coming from the tweeters. I like clear and detailed sound, so there are not the ones for me.
> The S350DB on the other hand has a clear sound with really fantastic highs. If you can place the sub on the floor then you gain a lot of space on your desk as the satellites are not that big at all. The bass is a bit hard to control though, sometimes too loud, sometimes a bit lacking. Also the sub and sats including tweeters do not have a protection cover, so be careful with them. And the cable are a bit short  which will be a problem if you want to put the sub on the left side.
> I have not heard the R2000DB. If it has better highs than R1850DB, then it might be a good option.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the tip. Yes, I think the issue with S350DB is that there is no cover for protection though many of the review are positive on those.


----------



## Slogra

Actually, the tweeters do have protection. I've fixed that in my previous post.


----------



## mariopepper

mwhals said:


> Soundtouch is Bose and I don't believe those soundbars work well with PCs for audio compared to the other speakers mentioned in this thread.


Probably you are right because I have not used all of mentioned speakers.. only few of them. But I was pleased with soundtouch anyway. What exactly you decided to take?


----------



## mwhals

mariopepper said:


> Probably you are right because I have not used all of mentioned speakers.. only few of them. But I was pleased with soundtouch anyway. What exactly you decided to take?



I haven’t bought anything yet since I have not been listening at the computer. I have been listening to my portable DAP on the couch.


----------



## mariopepper

mwhals said:


> I haven’t bought anything yet since I have not been listening at the computer. I have been listening to my portable DAP on the couch.


portable DAP is even better


----------



## drparton21

My speaker rig on my PC is an SMSL AD18 outputting two Elac F6.

I've been super happy with it. It also works decently as a headphone amp, though I prefer my Modi mutlibit -> JDS Atom chain.


----------



## radosuaf

Does anybody have any experience with Tascam VL-S3?
https://tascam.com/us/product/vl-s3/spec


----------



## Shane D

I am updating my last post from February. I love my Vanatoo T Zeroes, but as time went on, they were not impressing me. That is probably related to my binging on headphone gear in 2019. It was basically just from motherboard (bult-in sound card) to my DAC/AMP/speakers. It wasn't as clear as I was getting used to out in the living room.

So I bought a Topping D30 DAC and dedicated one of my headphone amps for the office. My wife had been complaining about no longer having a headphone option in the office since I dumped our 2.1 system and put in the Vanatoo's.

Anyway, WOW, does this sound great! It sounds like a real stereo now. Computer to D30 DAC to Burson Fun-Classic amp to Vanatoo T Zeroes. It is full and clear with any kind of music, Rock, pop, blues or horn jazz. Nothing is too bassy or too high. Working on the desktop or hunting for music is so much more fun now.

Shane D

PS: I need the sun to come out to get a decent pic:


----------



## bryceu

I currently own Presonus Eris 4.5, as well as JBL 305s. If you got the space the JBLs are bitchin. But if space is an issue I would have no problem settling for the Eris 4.5s. They're also convenient that they had a front facing single power switch to control both speakers as well as volume control in case your dac/pre-amp doesn't have convenient adjustable volume.


----------



## nuraman00 (Dec 8, 2019)

Shane D said:


> I am updating my last post from February. I love my Vanatoo T Zeroes, but as time went on, they were not impressing me. That is probably related to my binging on headphone gear in 2019. It was basically just from motherboard (bult-in sound card) to my DAC/AMP/speakers. It wasn't as clear as I was getting used to out in the living room.
> 
> So I bought a Topping D30 DAC and dedicated one of my headphone amps for the office. My wife had been complaining about no longer having a headphone option in the office since I dumped our 2.1 system and put in the Vanatoo's.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the report.

I don't know when, but sometime on my wishlist is getting a DAC.

I would use it in 2 ways:

* PC-->DAC-->Emotiva Airmotiv 6s

* CD player with optical out-->DAC-->Headphones.

Right now, with the Airmotiv 6s, I like them.  But coming from a 2.1 system, I miss the bass sometime.  For 90% of the music, it's good, but for certain songs or genres, I miss it.

Not sure if I should focus on a DAC first, or a subwoofer.  But since you mentioned the D30 DAC, I thought I would ask about that.

How would a DAC make a difference in my PC setup?  What would I notice with the D30?

Also, what cables do I need?  Right now, from the PC to Emotiva 6s, I am using a 3.5 mm from the PC to RCA L and R to the speakers.

Could I use PC --> optical out --> DAC?  Then after that, get separate L and R RCA cables for the line out?

For the CD player setup, is there a headphone out I can with the DAC?

Most of the time, I play the CDs in desktop, hence the PC setup.

But occasionally, I'd be using my portable CD player in my room, so I'd want to take the DAC with me.


----------



## Shane D (Dec 8, 2019)

nuraman00 said:


> Thanks for the report.
> 
> I don't know when, but sometime on my wishlist is getting a DAC.
> 
> ...



I am far from an expert, but I'll take a shot:

I chose the D30 over a D10 for dedicated power supply and connectivity options.

I did not test the DAC without the amp, so I am not sure about which brought more improvements.

My Vanatoo Transparent Zeroes are active speakers that already have a DAC and amp built in. And a remote to add to or tame the bass.

My cabling is computer via USB to DAC. Then RCA DAC to amp. Then RCA to 3.5mm cable for amp to speakers. So I have double DACing and double amping going on.
Sounds great to me though.

With the DAC D30, you can go computer to DAC via USB or SPDIF or even coax. Whatever works for you. And then it is only RCA out.

Are your speakers active? Meaning are they self amping?
Mine are active, but don't have RCA's in because they already have a DAC and an amp inside. They even do bluetooth. Tons of flexibility with these.

Not sure if I helped much, but feel free to shoot more questions and I will try my best.

Shane D


----------



## nuraman00

Shane D said:


> I am far from an expert, but I'll take a shot:
> 
> I chose the D30 over a D10 for dedicated power supply and connectivity options.
> 
> ...




The Airmotiv 6s are active powered monitors.

https://emotiva.com.ua/pdf/6s/airmotiv_6s_user_v01.pdf

For volume, I use the volume buttons on my keyboard.  Emotiva did make a stand alone Control Freak turn knob, but I never got it, and they later discontinued it anyways.

These do not have bluetooth.  It was something I was considering in 2016 when I made my purchase, but ultimately I wanted what sounded the best.  I compared these to the JBL LSR 308 side by side at home.

I can probably get some 3rd party device to do bluetooth, or WiFi, but for now, my priorities are a DAC or subwoofer.  I would also be a bit concerned about music being compressed via bluetooth.  (But not over WiFI).

Do you know if the D30 has a headphone out?  If so, then I can consider it for my portable CD player setup too.  When I'm ready to get a DAC, I want something that can support both the setups for my PC, and portable CD player.

Thanks.


----------



## Shane D

nuraman00 said:


> The Airmotiv 6s are active powered monitors.
> 
> https://emotiva.com.ua/pdf/6s/airmotiv_6s_user_v01.pdf
> 
> ...



Hello again. Weird that they don't have a volume knob, but do have XLR inputs.
The D30 does not have a headphone jack as it is just a DAC. That is why I added an amp to the chain. Now I have beautiful speaker sound and you can plug in the headphones at any time. And when you plug into the headphone amp you control your headphone volume with the amp knob.
With my speakers I have four ways to adjust the volume: on screen, via amp, remote control and knob on speaker back.

The D30 is a pretty bare bones DAC, which is fine for my use. I paid $134.00 in Canada (about $100.00US) and am very happy with the results.

My only mistake was not looking at the Zeroes closer first. There is no RCA in, which makes sense. Luckily I had an RCA X 2 into a 3.5mm cable sitting around. I was afraid it would hurt sound quality, but sounds awesome to me.

You may want to go further up the DAC chain to get more features. Maybe even look at a DAC/amp?
Topping D30 and a Liquid Spark would be an awesome combo! I got an open box Spark for $80.00US.
I was going for that but decided to use the Burson instead.

Your computer gives you several output options for the DAC. Hopefully the CD player does too.

Just out of curiosity, why don't you rip all your CD's to the computer? I rip mine as ALAC because I use iTunes. FLAC would be the same. Then everything runs through the computer to the DAC and buy yourself a DAP as funds allow?

Shane D


----------



## nuraman00

Shane D said:


> Hello again. Weird that they don't have a volume knob, but do have XLR inputs.
> The D30 does not have a headphone jack as it is just a DAC. That is why I added an amp to the chain. Now I have beautiful speaker sound and you can plug in the headphones at any time. And when you plug into the headphone amp you control your headphone volume with the amp knob.
> With my speakers I have four ways to adjust the volume: on screen, via amp, remote control and knob on speaker back.
> 
> ...



Thanks.  I do have a DAP, I have both an iPod Video, and Sansa Fuze+.  I use those too.

But I also like the sound of my portable CD player, so I like using that once in a while too.

When I'm commuting or on the go, I'll use my DAP.  When I'm at home, or driving, I use a CD player.  Just my preference.

Thanks, when I'm ready to start researching and make a purchase, I'll look for a DAC/amp.  Thanks for the recommendation.

Also, because I want a format that's compatible with both an iPod and Fuze+, I use 320 kbps mp3s.  But if I'm on the go, I'm not as picky about sound quality as I am when I'm at home, in a quieter environment.  A noisy bus or subway isn't the best for attentive listening, IMO.  So during those times, I don't need it to be perfect.

I also chose to build my desktop with a 1 TB SSD only, I like it for the performance and quiet.  I do also have a 2 TB external HDD for media storage (but I keep my music on my desktop too).


----------



## Shane D

nuraman00 said:


> Thanks.  I do have a DAP, I have both an iPod Video, and Sansa Fuze+.  I use those too.
> 
> But I also like the sound of my portable CD player, so I like using that once in a while too.
> 
> ...



Sounds like you have a pretty good grip on things! I have a place that I used to buy from that was all MP3 (320k). When I ripped my CD collection, that all became ALAC's. When I buy CD's now (Very rare), they are usually jazz and do go ALAC.
I started buying from iTunes about 5 years ago and so they are all AAC (260k, I think).

Back on subject, the DAC and amp additions made a world of difference to my music listening at the desktop.

Good luck!

Shane D


----------



## nuraman00

Shane D said:


> I am updating my last post from February. I love my Vanatoo T Zeroes, but as time went on, they were not impressing me. That is probably related to my binging on headphone gear in 2019. It was basically just from motherboard (bult-in sound card) to my DAC/AMP/speakers. It wasn't as clear as I was getting used to out in the living room.
> 
> So I bought a Topping D30 DAC and dedicated one of my headphone amps for the office. My wife had been complaining about no longer having a headphone option in the office since I dumped our 2.1 system and put in the Vanatoo's.
> 
> ...



Can you post some tracks, albums, or genres of music, that you thought made the most difference, from before when you had just the Vanatoo T Zeroes, and then later added the D30 DAC and the headphone amp?

Also, are there any genres of music where you felt it didn't made much of a difference?


----------



## Shane D

nuraman00 said:


> Can you post some tracks, albums, or genres of music, that you thought made the most difference, from before when you had just the Vanatoo T Zeroes, and then later added the D30 DAC and the headphone amp?
> 
> Also, are there any genres of music where you felt it didn't made much of a difference?



Bassy stuff was just rumbling. Lots of desk vibration, but no real focus. It was messy. And female vocals were going too high. I have a speaker remote which I was using regularly to adjust the treble and the bass. I don't touch it all all now.

My music is rock, a bit of pop, Blues and horn jazz.

Large difference since I added the DAC and amp to the system. I can now go louder and everything feels tighter.

Shane D


----------



## nuraman00

Shane D said:


> Sounds like you have a pretty good grip on things! I have a place that I used to buy from that was all MP3 (320k). When I ripped my CD collection, that all became ALAC's. When I buy CD's now (Very rare), they are usually jazz and do go ALAC.
> I started buying from iTunes about 5 years ago and so they are all AAC (260k, I think).
> 
> Back on subject, the DAC and amp additions made a world of difference to my music listening at the desktop.
> ...





nuraman00 said:


> Thanks.  I do have a DAP, I have both an iPod Video, and Sansa Fuze+.  I use those too.
> 
> But I also like the sound of my portable CD player, so I like using that once in a while too.
> 
> ...



Just an update on this.

I had 3 reasons about why I burned my CDs to 320 kbps mp3s instead of a lossless format.

1) . I needed to support both an iPod and Sansa Fuze+, so I didn't think I could use ALAC (Apple Lossless) in a Fuze+.  I didn't want to have 2 copies of everything.  As I use both my iPod Video and Fuze+, depending on what I'm in the mood for, or which one has more current battery life.

2) . I fall asleep 40% of the time during my commute, for 15-20 minutes.  If I'm not giving my music my full attention, then how much effort should I put into trying to hear every detail?

As I said previously, the only time I can guarantee my full attention, is when I'm at home.

3) . Noisy environment.  Whether it was the noisy tracks of the subway on my old commute, or hearing large trucks and motorcyclists go by me at a bus stop on my new commute, I'm not in a great quiet environment.  If outside noise gets in the way of trying to hear every detail, then why should try so hard to have perfect music quality?

Well, I found out today that # 1 is not true.  I converted one of the tracks to ALAC, and tried it in my Fuze+.  It worked.  So now I can have a lossless format across both devices.

I think it has something to do with how a Fuze+ can play anything in a AAC container, which is what the ALAC file was in.

# 2 and 3 are still valid concerns/obstacles, but I think I will start to convert some future music to ALAC.  It depends on what I'm listening to, and if it's meant to be hi-fi, or not.


----------



## Shane D (Jan 13, 2020)

nuraman00 said:


> Just an update on this.
> 
> I had 3 reasons about why I burned my CDs to 320 kbps mp3s instead of a lossless format.
> 
> ...



If I wasn't tied to Apple, I would rip in FLAC. Identical to ALAC, but neutral system wise. I only do ALAC because iTunes is my music software and where I buy my music. I still have my ipod Classic, but it is only used in my car now.

To be honest, I can not tell the difference between the formats. crappy recording sounds crappy in any format. And early 128Kbps stuff was horrible. I am a big Florence and the Machine fan. I bought her first two albums as CD's and ripped them as ALAC. I bought the next two on iTunes as AAC files. I can not tell any difference when I play her music on shuffle, none at all. Actually one or two of the orginal CD songs have picked up some noise. I am guessing corrupted files. I dumped all my CD's and will replace them with AAC's.

I have bought CD's in the recent years, just for jazz. And I get CD's from Jazziz magazine.

Shane D


----------



## nuraman00

Shane D said:


> If I wasn't tied to Apple, I would rip in FLAC. Identical to ALAC, but neutral system wise. I only do ALAC because iTunes is my music software and where I buy my music. I still have my ipod Classic, but it is only used in my car now.
> 
> To be honest, I can not tell the difference between the formats. crappy recording sounds crappy in any format. And early 128Kbps stuff was horrible. I am a big Florence and the Machine fan. I bought her first two albums as CD's and ripped them as ALAC. I bought the next two on iTunes as AAC files. I can not tell any difference when I play her music on shuffle, none at all. Actually one or two of the orginal CD songs have picked up some noise. I am guessing corrupted files. I dumped all my CD's and will replace them with AAC's.
> 
> ...



Same here.  If I wasn't tied to Apple through my iPod Video, I would convert to FLAC too.  But, my iPod Video was a special gift to me a long time ago, so I like using it.

I also agree that bad music sounds bad in any format.  And with good music, I'd say for 90-95% of the songs, it's hard to tell the difference between a high quality mp3/AAC, or FLAC.  Only those songs that have sounds that reach the very high or very low frequencies, can I tell the difference.

EDIT:  Did you change your avatar a little?  I thought your cat was wearing headphones before.


----------



## fonkh

I don´t want to create a new thread, so hope it´s Ok to ask here..

I upgraded to the KEF LSX for my desktop setup (got the iLoud micro monitors before) and wanted to put them on my Audio-GD R2R-11, like i did with my iLouds. But as the LSX only has optical and the Audio-GD only optical for input, this is not working. Currently i hooked the LSX directly to the PC with optical, but thats super annoying to switch with Headphones, volume control etc.
So im looking for an allround solution like i had before, so PC -> DAC/AMP -> LSX / Headphones. I was eying at the RME ADI-2 before (because i also got some Andros), but i guess thats also not working now. Any ideas what to get for my "problem" ?


----------



## Shane D

nuraman00 said:


> Did you change your avatar a little?  I thought your cat was wearing headphones before.



Funny you mention that. No, I did not change my avatar. However, I found Redbubble and went on a BIG T-shirt binge. Mostly music related, but two of them are really cool cat shirts with headphones on and off. I get WAY more comments on the cat shirts vs Steely Dan, Dave Matthews or Miles Davis.

Shane D


----------



## Shane D (Jan 16, 2020)

fonkh said:


> I don´t want to create a new thread, so hope it´s Ok to ask here..
> 
> I upgraded to the KEF LSX for my desktop setup (got the iLoud micro monitors before) and wanted to put them on my Audio-GD R2R-11, like i did with my iLouds. But as the LSX only has optical and the Audio-GD only optical for input, this is not working. Currently i hooked the LSX directly to the PC with optical, but thats super annoying to switch with Headphones, volume control etc.
> So im looking for an allround solution like i had before, so PC -> DAC/AMP -> LSX / Headphones. I was eying at the RME ADI-2 before (because i also got some Andros), but i guess thats also not working now. Any ideas what to get for my "problem" ?



Wow, those are some expensive speakers!
Anyway, you could hook up just like I did, if you want. That is USB, optical or coax to your DAC.
Then RCA out to your speakers. I had to use a 2 X RCA to 3.5mm cable, which I thought would mess up the sound, but it really didn't.That will go into your accessory jack. Your speakers don't have an RCA in, because they already have a DAC and amp built in, like mine.

Did that help at all?

Shane D


----------



## nuraman00

Shane D said:


> Funny you mention that. No, I did not change my avatar. However, I found Redbubble and went on a BIG T-shirt binge. Mostly music related, but two of them are really cool cat shirts with headphones on and off. I get WAY more comments on the cat shirts vs Steely Dan, Dave Matthews or Miles Davis.
> 
> Shane D



Haha.

Can you post those cat shirts?


----------



## Shane D

nuraman00 said:


> Haha.
> 
> Can you post those cat shirts?



 


Shane D


----------



## nuraman00

Shane D said:


> Shane D



They're both good.


----------



## Shane D

nuraman00 said:


> They're both good.



I love them! My two favourite things at home are my cats and my music.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Shane D said:


> Shane D



This amuses me for another reason besides simply loving cats AND headphones: last year my wife scored a pair of socks that are:

purple (purple is the new black, naturally)
and covered with cats...
...wearing headphones
She hit the trifecta!


----------



## tstse

I am using Neumann KH 120-A Studio Monitor. 
it is very good, love it very much


----------



## Shane D

tstse said:


> I am using Neumann KH 120-A Studio Monitor.
> it is very good, love it very much



What else do you have in your chain? Any amp or DAC?


----------



## Pharmaboy

tstse said:


> I am using Neumann KH 120-A Studio Monitor.
> it is very good, love it very much



People say extremely good things about these little monitors. I looked long & hard at the whole Neumann line a couple years ago, when researching powered monitors for my desktop application. Sadly, they didn't have any "in-between" size 2-way w/the larger woofer I was looking for. I even thought about trying their 3-way/horizontal model, but it's just too big (and crazy $$$). 

I ended up w/an ATC passive monitor (SCM12 Pro) which knocks me silly...very pleased. Then again, I had to get a powerful amp & speaker cables to make that happen. Still, couldn't be happier w/it.


----------



## tstse

Shane D said:


> What else do you have in your chain? Any amp or DAC?



I am using a Motu 896mk3, it is a mod version, better chips. giving it a better image


----------



## tstse

Pharmaboy said:


> People say extremely good things about these little monitors. I looked long & hard at the whole Neumann line a couple years ago, when researching powered monitors for my desktop application. Sadly, they didn't have any "in-between" size 2-way w/the larger woofer I was looking for. I even thought about trying their 3-way/horizontal model, but it's just too big (and crazy $$$).
> 
> I ended up w/an ATC passive monitor (SCM12 Pro) which knocks me silly...very pleased. Then again, I had to get a powerful amp & speaker cables to make that happen. Still, couldn't be happier w/it.



3 way, you need a better room as well...


----------



## Pharmaboy

tstse said:


> 3 way, you need a better room as well...



That's very true...an excellent point. The room matters less in a true nearfield system--but it still matters.


----------



## Shane D

tstse said:


> I am using a Motu 896mk3, it is a mod version, better chips. giving it a better image



Wow, that is a serious looking piece of gear. I am just using a D30 DAC and amp.


----------



## nuraman00

I am considering getting the SVS SB-2000 Pro subwoofer for a home theater.

Can I also use it with my computer?  How do I do the connections?  What cables do I need?

I do have a sub out on my sound card.  And I currently am using the headphone out on my sound card, with a 3.5mm to RCA cable, to my Emotiva Airmotivs 6s powered monitors.

And lastly, is it possible for me to have this sub connected to both my PC, and my AV receiver for my home theater, and then just have it play where the source sound is from (whether the AV receiver or PC)?  Or do I have to disconnect one of them at a time, to get the other to play?


----------



## mariopepper (Oct 1, 2020)

nuraman00 said:


> I am considering getting the SVS SB-2000 Pro subwoofer for a home theater.
> 
> Can I also use it with my computer?  How do I do the connections?  What cables do I need?
> 
> ...


I've used  SVS SB-2000 Pro  before. Quite good option as for me. I also used cmt-FX300i but it was hard for me to understand how to use. So if anybody needs some kind of manual check this info site to find what you're looking for.


----------



## Pharmaboy (Sep 29, 2020)

nuraman00 said:


> I am considering getting the SVS SB-2000 Pro subwoofer for a home theater.
> 
> Can I also use it with my computer?  How do I do the connections?  What cables do I need?
> 
> ...



That's a terrific sub (I have the SB-1000 and like it alot). Re your question, it's very unlikely you could connect 2 completely separate sources (PC vs AVR) to any sub w/o blowing it up, if not both sources also.

The only way I can think of to do that is via:

A passive switch box (such as Schitt Sys) which allows you to select which one of two inputs can send signal downstream
With the output of the passive switch (RCA L/R) going to the sub's line level input

Note you'd have to carefully volume match each source so you don't inadvertently blow up the sub by switching from a low volume source to a high volume source. This gets confusing, because each source (PC sound card & AVR) may have or not have discreet volume control. 

If sources both had volume control, you'd want to be sure to turn down the volume on the source you're about to switch to, so no sonic surprises.
The Sys has its own volume control--so you could turns its volume control down before switching.
This is all speculative on my part, just informed guesswork.

https://www.schiit.com/products/sys


----------



## nuraman00

mariopepper said:


> I've used  SVS SB-2000 Pro  before. Quite good option as for me.





Pharmaboy said:


> That's a terrific sub (I have the SB-1000 and like it alot). Re your question, it's very unlikely you could connect 2 completely separate sources (PC vs AVR) to any sub w/o blowing it up, if not both sources also.
> 
> The only way I can think of to do that is via:
> 
> ...



Thanks, I don't need to connect to both sources (PC, AVR) at the same time, if it involves a complicated setup.  I can just connect one or the other as I want.

What do I need to do to connect my PC, the sub, and my Airmotiv 6s powered monitors together?  Do I use both the sub out, and the line out, on my sound card?  Or do I just use one?


----------



## Pharmaboy

nuraman00 said:


> What do I need to do to connect my PC, the sub, and my Airmotiv 6s powered monitors together? Do I use both the sub out, and the line out, on my sound card? Or do I just use one?



Assuming your soundcard has a sub out (presumably w/frequencies above 80 Hz filtered out); and a line out (presumably with no frequencies filtered out):

You would connect the card's sub out to the SB-2000
And connect the card's line out to the powered speakers
...which leave the issue of volume control. If you're happy controlling volume for both outputs of the soundcard via software, you're set. All you would have to do is "balance" the sub's output volume vs the monitors (using the sub's volume pot), and away you go.

But there's a drawback to software control of volume: often sound is attenuated via truncation of bits in the digital realm, such that the output can be lower or higher in resolution--not an acceptable tradeoff for those concerned most w/sonic purity.

The alternative to software/digital volume control is some kind of active switch device (ie, 2 totally separate inputs sources connected to totally separate outputs--going to the sub & monitors, respectively--but with a volume pot in the middle).

The other issue that lurks behind this topic is that by running full/unfiltered signal to the powered monitors, concurrent with low-pass filtered signal to the sub, you would run the monitors full range + a sub. That may or may not work well in your particular room/environment. I tried it in my system and felt the mid-bass seemed "boomy."

This topic (how to wire a sub vs mains) gets totally complicated in a hurry, I'm sorry to say.

*Note:* IF (big if) your AVR has a discrete, low-pass subwoofer output (many do), there's a totally other way to accomplish this, and it doesn't involve your sound card at all:

You would purchase a reasonably-priced DAC and run a USB cable from the computer to the DAC
Then the output of the DAC (RCA L/R interconnect) would connect to an open input of the AVR
The AVR would then run a separate RCA output to the powered monitors & the sub, as before
And the AVR would control volume
True, you would have to run AVR & computer simultaneously to get sound...and invest in a few RCA interconnects. But at the very least, your digital-to-analogue conversion would probably be done better by the DAC than by soundcard; and no more concern about digital volume control.


----------



## nuraman00 (Sep 30, 2020)

Pharmaboy said:


> Assuming your soundcard has a sub out (presumably w/frequencies above 80 Hz filtered out); and a line out (presumably with no frequencies filtered out):
> 
> You would connect the card's sub out to the SB-2000
> And connect the card's line out to the powered speakers
> ...



Thanks.  The SB-2000 Pro also has a volume control on it too, so I can control the sub's volume that way.

Ever since I got the Emotiva powered monitors in September 2016, both a DAC and a sub have been on my wishlist.

With my very recent desire to set up a home theater, it felt like the right time to get a sub, and get one that I could use for both applications. 

A DAC is still on my wishlist.  I want one with both USB and optical inputs.  I know there's not many of those, but I remember seeing at least one, every time I look into a DAC again.  I've mentioned it a few times in this thread.

But, my more immediate priority is getting this home theater set up, so a DAC will still be on the back burner.

Thanks for the explanation about the digital volume control, from my PC.

It's good to know that I don't have to change any connections on the line out on my sound card, I just have the add the sub out. 
It looks like whether I'm using my PC as the source, or the AVR, I will be using the single LFE port on the sub as the input, so I'll just swap those out as needed.  That seems reasonable enough.

I just hope for normal TV (sports, or other normal programming), the bass isn't overwhelming when I am using a 5.1 setup.  I think I'll probably turn the sub's volume down in that case.  I've never had a 5.1 setup before, but I'm just thinking that it might not be appropriate to have more bass when watching such content, as opposed to music or other programming that's more high def.


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## Pharmaboy

I never had a legit home theater setup--never wanted one. But I suspect that after you balance the sub's volume for 2-channel use, it will remain balanced for 5.1 use. By "balanced" I mean that the sub's output volume is aligned with the volume of sound from the mains. The test would be the classic "walking bass" line of a well recorded jazz tune, where the bassist's fingers "walk" the notes down into the sub's range, then back up. If the sub is well integrated, the bass sounds like a real bass all the way up and down, and none of the notes "jump" in an unnatural way.

It's quite easy to make a sub sound like dogshtt; harder to make it sound good. But once you get it set, that should be it.


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## nuraman00

Pharmaboy said:


> But there's a drawback to software control of volume: often sound is attenuated via truncation of bits in the digital realm, such that the output can be lower or higher in resolution--not an acceptable tradeoff for those concerned most w/sonic purity.



Does this only happen when one is changing the volume via digital volume control?  Or if one isn't changing it, and is just leaving it at the volume it's at, then is there still truncation of bits?


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## Pharmaboy

nuraman00 said:


> Does this only happen when one is changing the volume via digital volume control?  Or if one isn't changing it, and is just leaving it at the volume it's at, then is there still truncation of bits?



I'm not an expert...others here could answer more knowledgeably. My understanding is this:

Start with full digital volume (the slider is all the way up or to right). That would be full # of bits, full resolution
Each time you lower the volume w/that slider, you are hearing a lower volume (which is what you want)--but bits are being truncated to accomplish this
Honestly, I'm unclear on the mechanism of this. But I've seen so many comments to this effect that I believe it.

Note that this does not apply to various high-end DACs that come with a digitally implemented volume pot (not an analogue pot, but one that reduces volume in the digital realm. Example would be Holo's May DAC. In those cases, the pots are designed to convey the full digital signal, but at the volume selected.


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## nuraman00

Do DACs have an analog way to adjust volume?  Or sometimes they do, sometimes they don't?


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## Pharmaboy

nuraman00 said:


> Do DACs have an analog way to adjust volume?  Or sometimes they do, sometimes they don't?



Some DACs have volume adjustment. Among those that do (not a huge group, mind you, as most DACs don't have it), I'd guess most of the volume pots are trad analog.


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## nuraman00

Speaking of DACs to use with a PC, I'm a bit confused about the conversion process.

If my motherboard has a DAC, then what does connecting another DAC do?  Doesn't the DAC receive it when it's already in analog form?


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## Pharmaboy

nuraman00 said:


> Speaking of DACs to use with a PC, I'm a bit confused about the conversion process.
> 
> If my motherboard has a DAC, then what does connecting another DAC do?  Doesn't the DAC receive it when it's already in analog form?



You would run a USB cable from the computer to the input of the DAC, totally bypassing the soundcard's onboard D/A circuit. The USB cable would carry digital information to the DAC, where it is then converted to analog signal.

Standalone/separate DACs often sound better than any but the most expensive soundcard--because they have more circuit board real estate, permitting better cooling, more refined input/output stages & a bigger, better power supply. A separate DAC also gets all its circuitry away from the electrically noisy environment of the computer case.

There surely are exceptions, though. I suppose a pricey/high end soundcard (internal or external) could outperform a barebones DAC. It all depends on the soundcard & implementation.

I ditched soundcards and went to a separate DAC ~13 yrs ago. Never looked back.


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## nuraman00 (Oct 7, 2020)

Pharmaboy said:


> You would run a USB cable from the computer to the input of the DAC, totally bypassing the soundcard's onboard D/A circuit. The USB cable would carry digital information to the DAC, where it is then converted to analog signal.
> 
> Standalone/separate DACs often sound better than any but the most expensive soundcard--because they have more circuit board real estate, permitting better cooling, more refined input/output stages & a bigger, better power supply. A separate DAC also gets all its circuitry away from the electrically noisy environment of the computer case.
> 
> ...



Thank you, that explains it.  I'll make sure that my DAC has a USB connection, when I get one.

I have an integrated sound card.

Just for reference, these are the audio specifications.

https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/ROG-CROSSHAIR-VII-HERO-WI-FI/specifications/

ROG SupremeFX 8-Channel High Definition Audio CODEC S1220
- Impedance sense for front and rear headphone outputs
- Supports : Jack-detection, Multi-streaming, Front Panel Jack-retasking
- High quality 120 dB SNR stereo playback output and 113 dB SNR recording input
- SupremeFX Shielding Technology
- ESS® ES9023P
- Supports up to 32-Bit/192kHz playback *5
*Audio Feature :*
- Gold-plated jacks
- Optical S/PDIF out port(s) at back panel
- Sonic Radar III
- Sonic Studio III


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## nuraman00

Another random question.

My portable CD player has an optical out port.  But it doesn't look like it uses a Toslink cable.  What cable do I need?

Here's a picture of the port, that the seller took, before I bought the player in 2015.  I had asked the seller for a picture of the optical port.







Here's a picture I took.


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## Slogra

It's a normal mini headphone connector combined with optical mini toslink.
With right cable from mini toslink to normal toslink you can connect your player to a receiver.


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## nuraman00

Slogra said:


> It's a normal mini headphone connector combined with optical mini toslink.
> With right cable from mini toslink to normal toslink you can connect your player to a receiver.



Thanks.  So something like this?

https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-Toslink-Mini-Feet/dp/B00JLTURKE


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## Slogra

Yes, that should be it. Obviously it does not need to be gold plated, because the optical signal does not travel through the goldplated part of the connector (but it doesn't hurt either).


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## intoitreviews

Depends on budget.  I also don't have a ton of room on my desk for larger spearks.  My desktop set-up right now is Modhouse Mini-Cubes with a Super Cube II subwoofer.  I've had Klipsch 2.1 and 5.1 in years prior.  I'm in the process of acquiring some Cessaro Mini-Wagners for Gestalt Audio Design in Nashville - which might prove to be amazing, but are a bit on the more costly side of things.


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## nuraman00

I have a ROG CROSSHAIR VII HERO (WI-FI).

How do I connect it to a SVS SB-2000 Pro subwoofer?

I tried connecting a RCA cable from the orange port on the on-board sound card, to the LFE port on the woofer.

Two problems.

One is that the cable doesn't stay firmly into the orange port.

The other is that the subwoofer makes a loud hum.

I also currently have a 3.5mm to red/white RCA cable going from the green port on the sound card, to my powered speakers.

Here is the manual for the motherboard:

 https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/SocketAM4/ROG_CROSSHAIR-VII-HERO_WI-FI/E13834_ROG_CROSSHAIR_VII_HERO_WI-FI_UM_WEB.pdf

Do I need a 3.5mm to dual RCA cable for the orange sub out too? And which ports on the subwoofer do I connect the two RCA ends?

Once I connect the subwoofer, is it hassle free? Or am I going to have to adjust some setting or dial?


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## nuraman00

From 1998-2016, I had a 44 watt subwoofer with my computer speakers, and I was happy with it.  It wore down in 2016.

I just got a SVS SB-2000 Pro for a home theater.

My room is about 21.5' L x 12' W' with a upwards sloping ceiling that probably goes 12-14 feet high.

For some content, with my sub near the TV and me on the couch, the SB-2000 Pro isn't producing the output that I want.  I already increased the volume on the app to 0dB; set the bass tone control to high on the AVR; and set the AVR sub volume to +6 dB.  

I don't think I want to stress it more.  It is fine for some content, but there is one track where I want more, and that was something I could do with my old subwoofer.

I don't want dual subwoofers.  And I don't want something extremely heavy, as it is difficult for one person to move around or set up.

I want to stick with another SVS for comparison.  I had already ruled out Hsu due to weight and how some models were backordered.  I also ruled out Rythmik due to similar weights of their models (69-80 lbs.)

The SVS representative suggested the PB-16 Ultra, but that is $2500, and also 174 lbs.

The rep thinks the high ceiling might be an issue.

What do you think about the SVS PB-2000 Pro (ported, 64 lbs), the PC-2000 Pro (ported, cylindrical, 47 lbs.), or the PB-3000 (ported, 82 lbs)?

The PB-3000 seems too heavy again, and is also $500 more.

So I think it's down to SVS PB-2000 Pro or PC-2000 Pro.


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## monadnock

JBL 530, heard some of these sourced by a dragonfly red and a mobile phone that sounded surprisingly good.


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## nuraman00

I'm having trouble playing music with the SVS PB-2000 Pro, from my PC.


I don't have a 2.1 mode in my sound settings.


I set it to 5.1, then on the next screen, unselected center channel, and rear speakers.


Then it asks which speakers are full range.  At first I unselected both front and subwoofer.  


However it still didn't sound like it was using the sub.


So I went through the configuration again, and selected them both as full range.


It still didn't sound like it was using the sub.


Also, I tried connecting both RCA to the LFE inputs on my sub, as well as connecting only the red one.


It still didn't sound like it was using the sub.


I can hear the dialog and music, it just doesn't seem to be using the sub.


Ok, I opened up SupremeFX and selected "enable bass management".


When I do the audio test, everything sounds right.  Left Channel, right channel, subwoofer.


But when I play something, it doesn't sound right.

I even tried the setting to "swap center / subwoofer output" that's in the SupremeFX. 

Here is the manual for the motherboard: 

https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/...13834_ROG_CROSSHAIR_VII_HERO_WI-FI_UM_WEB.pdf


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