# FiiO E12 v1 vs Cayin C5 brief comparison



## bzippy

I've had just a couple days comparing these two but I think I've heard enough to make my decision. Source is FiiO X3 LO (wma lossless files) and headphones are Senn HD600.
  
 I have had the Cayin for a few weeks and the whole reason I even considered the E12 is that for most recordings the C5 bass boost is too much for the HD600's. But they do need just a little help way down low, so the famous subtlety of the E12 v1 bass boost got my attention.
  
 Right off, there's no question: the C5 is wider and seems more detailed, but not by all that much (more on this later). The E12 is more forward in the mids, and therefore most vocals/guitars stand out more. The C5 sounds a bit like the vocalists took a half step back from the mic. The C5 also has just a bit more sparkle on top, while the FiiO is famously a bit rolled off up there. This difference in high end is perhaps most noticeable with stringed instruments, which are a bit more life-like thru the C5. As for the low end (unboosted), I have tried and tried but I can't hear a difference at all, so there. Now I can't say I understand where sound stage and detail come from, but I wonder whether this difference in space has something to do with the differences in the mids and the very high end. Would the E12's presentation seem wider and more detailed if the vocals were more recessed like the C5 and it had the same sparkle? I dunno, but I'm guessing it might. (I'll have to re-read that sound stage thread.)
  
 But I want to add a general comment that the differences in these amps is not a lot. Sometimes I have to really listen pretty hard to hear any of these differences (depending on my current state of ear fatigue), and even then the differences disappear pretty quickly, like in just a few seconds after switching and my brain settles in to the new sound. It is nothing at all like the differences you hear when changing headphones, just to put it in perspective. Perhaps it would be more striking if I could flip a switch to go between amps, but it takes me a few seconds to move two cables from one amp to the other. And if the differences disappear that easily, that means to me these two amps are more similar than different. Bear in mind that I'm sort of a HP noob and I don't claim to have golden ears, so ymmv.
  
 Now to the feature issue (for me): bass boost. The E12 v1 is clearly the king of subtle, lol, no doubt. In fact it's almost non-existent and I have no trouble believing that FiiO received enough feedback on this to prompt the change they made for the std production model. But I agree with all the guys around here who much prefer this subtle version. It adds just a bit of thump to things like kick drums and the lowest notes of bass instruments. In a perfect world I might add just a couple more dB's to the boost curve, but for most recordings I much prefer it to the C5 and the current E12 boosts. Since some recordings need it, some need more and some not all, I think the only way to really improve the E12 v1 boost for my ears/cans would be with finer control via a pot or three way boost level switch or something (OFF/LOW/HIGH switch, now THAT would be awesome), but keeping the peak of the curve right where it is. As far as I know, there is not yet a portable amp that has this much control over the EQ. Don't know why. So until that amp comes out (and with enough power for my Senns), the E12 v1 is my favorite portable bass boost.
  
 OK then to my final verdict: it's the E12 v1 for me and the C5 is going back. The forward vocals and more suitable bass boost are just enough to make up for what little is lost in space and detail. And frankly the fact that this is such a hard unit to find makes it really hard for me let it go. So I'm gonna live with the E12 for a while and see how it goes. I can easily get another C5 if the nagging thought of wanting more detail ever gets the best of me.
  
 I hope this was helpful. I'll do my best to answer any questions or elaborate if anyone would like.
  
 Edit:
 After almost a week it is clear that the E12's battery lasts much monger than the C5. This is not scientific because I measured the battery life for neither device (and the C5 has already been shipped back), but I remember it being mildly annoying that after approx 3 listening sessions the C5 would die. In contrast, I've been listening to the E12 sporadically for almost a week (including a late night movie) and the low battery indicator has not started flashing yet. Score one more point for the E12.


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## ClieOS

bzippy said:


> ... Right off, there's no question: the C5 is wider and seems more detailed, but not by all that much (more on this later). The E12 is more forward in the mids, and therefore most vocals/guitars stand out more. The C5 sounds a bit like the vocalists took a half step back from the mic. The C5 also has just a bit more sparkle on top, while the FiiO is famously a bit rolled off up there. This difference in high end is perhaps most noticeable with stringed instruments, which are a bit more life-like thru the C5. As for the low end (unboosted), I have tried and tried but I can't hear a difference at all, so there. Now I can't say I understand where sound stage and detail come from, but I wonder whether this difference in space has something to do with the differences in the mids and the very high end. *Would the E12's presentation seem wider and more detailed if the vocals were more recessed like the C5 and it had the same sparkle? *I dunno, but I'm guessing it might. (I'll have to re-read that sound stage thread.)
> ...


 
  
 From personal experience over many amps, I'll say it is quite possible. Anytime you have thicker mid range, soundstage suffers.


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## king conan

This is a good example about we need to test ourselves for proper conclusions.
  
 I had the opposite of yours!  I sold last week my E12 and I love the punchier sound of C5. It's very difficult to put in words these subjective differences  but to me, with HD650 headphones the C5 gives me a "bigger" sound. Almost everything sounds more spectacular. Sure is not night and day difference but the improvement was obvious.
  
 I had E12 for almost a year but a week with the Cayin was enough to say good bye to E12. To add more details, I never use bass boost in any of those amps, the HD650 without help delivers enough, and I enjoy almost every kind of music.
  
 But, hey, this is a subjective, amateurish opinion. Get your own one!!!


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## johnKenneth

king conan said:


> This is a good example about we need to test ourselves for proper conclusions.
> 
> I had the opposite of yours!  I sold last week my E12 and I love the punchier sound of C5. It's very difficult to put in words these subjective differences  but to me, with HD650 headphones the C5 gives me a "bigger" sound. Almost everything sounds more spectacular. Sure is not night and day difference but the improvement was obvious.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I am eager to try C5 for myself now. I guess like all things audio, it depends a lot on what it is connected with.


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## bzippy

clieos said:


> From personal experience over many amps, I'll say it is quite possible. Anytime you have thicker mid range, soundstage suffers.



i didn't realize that. cool, thanks.


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## bzippy

king conan said:


> This is a good example about we need to test ourselves for proper conclusions.
> 
> I had the opposite of yours!  I sold last week my E12 and I love the punchier sound of C5. It's very difficult to put in words these subjective differences  but to me, with HD650 headphones the C5 gives me a "bigger" sound. Almost everything sounds more spectacular. Sure is not night and day difference but the improvement was obvious.
> 
> ...




yeah and of course evey other opinion i've read on the matter supports your conclusion without hesitation. like i said i did sorta hear it too, but it just wasn't enough to override the difference in bass boost usability with my 600's. but i admit that i am feeling a little unsure of myself.

as for the punch, i wonder if the 600's roll off down low had something to do with obscuring this difference. the 650's are supposed to have more bottom than the 600's, right? 

i mean there's no question that some amps are just objectively better than others. i have no idea what it is about the components and design that makes this so. whether this is applicable when comparing these two amps i have no idea. but i do like the sound of the E12, and don't forget that before the C5 came along the E12 was the internet darling. so it can't be that bad, right? like i said i'm gonna live with it for a while and perhaps sometime in the future i'll try the C5 again, or whatever awesome new thing comes out next (like maybe something that also has some EQ control beyond a hammering bass boost).


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## bzippy

just a quick addendum to report that the E12 battery is seeming to last MUCH longer than the C5. (also added to the review above)


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## Eric95M

I have both the C5 and E12.  Have had the E12 for a long time, the C5 since 2 weeks after release.  My sources are an X3 and Rockboxed iPod.  I change the combinations of the 4 periodically.  In my opinion they are really close.  I use exclusively IEM's, so can not say anything regarding headphones.  I find there is more of a difference in the quality of the recordings than there is of the amps.  Even flacs can sound crappy sometimes.
 There is no way I could say one is specifically better than the other.  
 Again, just my 2 cents..


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## waynes world

E12v1 and C5 are both great. If the C5 had the E12v1 bass boost, that would be money (the c5 bass boost is a bit much for a lot of my gear). I do find the c5 to have better synergy with warmer gear or with gear that welcomes more soundstage (or gear that doesn't like having the soundstslage restricted somewhat). For most of my iems and my closed headphones, I prefer the c5. For my open brighter cans such as the ad900x, the e12 rocks.


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## catspaw

After using a E17 untill the units headphone jack malfunctioned (fiio did send me a replacement for the jack but i screwed up the soldering ), I went back and tried the E12.
 I have to say I liked the E17 a lot more than the E12.
  
 I agree that sparkle adds to soundstage but in a "fake" way. It is my personal experience that soundstage is affected by almost everything in the headphone, but each individual part only modifies it a bit:
  
 I use a HE-400 and I have modded it over time. Soundstage has improved due to some of the mods, and suffered due to others.
 The amp, the source, everything affected the soundstage in small doses.
  
 The reason I mentioned the fake soundstage is because as you add treble, the soundstage seems to fill up with information by making the existing one louder but it does not seem to become wider or higher (in my experience).
 I usually play more games than listen to music and adding treble makes the soundstage sound unnatural to my ear.


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## crazy eddie

Got it got i, yeah buddy, it's awesome, omg


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## crazy eddie




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## crazy eddie




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## crazy eddie

I love fiio products, actually sony too, I was curious I have xba a3 on its way should I get z5


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## QueasyDemoDeezy

So if I have a pair of audio technical ath-msr7's what do I go with? They are closed but notoriously bright...


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## DJ The Rocket

bzippy said:


> finer control via a pot or three way boost level switch or something (OFF/LOW/HIGH switch, now THAT would be awesome)



Oh, you mean like the Fiio E11?


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