# Little Dot I+ Tube Rolling



## mapstec

Since a few days now the LD I+, a tube/transisitor hybrid is on the market.







 Information from the venor is available here: NEW ! LD I+ Tube / transistors mixed Headphone Amp..

 Further discussion can be found here

 This amp has the unique ability to be used with three distinct tube varieties:

*5654*
 6JI, WE403A/B, M8100, CV4010, EF95, 6AK5
 Miniatur-7-Pin-Base RF miniature pentode, 6.3V heater






 5654W






 6AK5


*408A *
 Miniatur-7-Pin-Base B7G, 20V, 50mA heater






 Jan NOS (Phillips)


*EF92*
 CV131, EF91, CV138, M8161
 Miniatur-7-Pin-Base B7G, 6.3V heater






 6AM6 (EF91)





 




 EF92 (left Mullard, right Phillips)

 From what I could see the 5654 and the 408A have the same pin out but different heater voltage and the EF92 has a different pin out to the other two.

 I am still waiting for my LD I+, but I already ordered a few tubes:

 6J1 stock
 EF 95 (6AK5W) Siemens
 6Zh1P-EV/6J1P-EV VOSHOD

 6028 (408A) Philips ECG 

 EF 91 Siemens/Mullard
 6AM6 CEI
 EF 92 (CV 4015) Philips

 What other tubes are out there, what tubes do you have and already used, which ones do you like / dislike?


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## Dept_of_Alchemy

A good and trusted source for Little Dot tubes would be Yen Audio on ebay, all of the tubes sold by YA are matched pairs which in my experience is very important in terms of portraying an accurate and believable soundstage. It looks like they're stocking some 408A tubes just for the I+. Highly recommended place to start looking at LD upgrade tubes if you're just starting out in the tube amp hobby.

http://stores.ebay.com/Yen-Audio_Lit...QQftidZ2QQtZkm


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## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mapstec* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From what I could see the 5654 and the 408A have the same pin out but different heater voltage and the EF92 has a different pin out to the other two._

 

The EF92 and 5654 have the same pin out the difference is that the EF92 draws 200mA of plate current while the 5654 draws 175mA. This gives the EF92 a little more gain and (in theory) a more linear top-end response.

 - DoA


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## Killahertz

Gents, from reading between the lines of previous threads the Mullard M8161 appears to be a tube worth investigating with the LD I+. One (UK) eBay seller has both the old logo and new(er) logo varieties: is there any difference, and if so, which is the better for the I+.

eBay UK Shop - COLOMOR VALVES TUBES COMPONENTS: Audio Tubes Valves, Radio Tubes Valves, Collectible Vintage Tubes

 K.


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## mapstec

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* 
_The EF92 and 5654 have the same pin out the difference is that the EF92 draws 200mA of plate current while the 5654 draws 175mA. This gives the EF92 a little more gain and (in theory) a more linear top-end response.

 - DoA_

 

Doesn't that imply the same setup? If it is just that the circuit needs to be able to deliver more current? Then why do we need to jumper between the tubes?

 Can somebody please comment?

 What other tubes are available for the I+?


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## HeatFan12

There are a lot of different tubes that can be used. The EF95 family has the biggest selection in terms of variants (EF95/5654/CV4010/M8100/6096/403A/B/6J1...

 I recently received my I+ and have it set to the EF92/EF91 family. Have not changed any tubes yet, burning it in some.

 With my SE, I have rolled in many, many tubes, particularly in the EF95 family. I have tried various 6AK5W, 5654, 6096, EF95, M8100, 403A etc. Not one combination has sounded bad.

 I+
 Jumper setting #1- EF95 etc....
 Jumper setting #2- EF92/91 etc...
 Jumper setting #3- 408A/6028.....

 Heater and sensitivity are different between the families...


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## Seba

I'm very much enjoying my I+ with same russian tubes (6Zh1P-EV) that are in my MKIV SE.

 I'll also have some Amperex 5654's, GE 5-stars and SE's stock M8100's.


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## Dept_of_Alchemy

The 408A looks like a great sounding tube on paper, I can't wait for this thread to get started. I'm about to order a I+ just to try it out...


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## jpstereo

... just picked up a pair of WE 408As and that's what's going in mine ... hopefully when it arrives this weekend .... also picked up a set of 32 ohm Denon AH-D1001s - I'm hoping it's a nice match!


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## mapstec

My amp should be here tomorrow 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 With the various tubes to arrive over the next week.

 Always remember that forming an opinion about a tube takes time.

 You can not critique a tube until it has burned in, and since we are talking NOS tubes here I suggest a minimum of three days at 8hours.

 I have a tube amp using one 6922 here at my desk right now, and the positive (!) difference in SQ the last few hours have made (from less then 10h to like 15h) on the 7308 in there is astonishing!


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## Trapper32

My LD 1+ arrived yesterday...luckily my Tung-sol and Sylvania 408a's arrived last week as i ordered the amp without any tubes ....I have been listening for about 8 hours so far and am more than impressed right out of the box. Great soundstage, fast and lots of detail....Very musical..This is the best bang for buck i've had since joining this forum. Can't wait till the amp and tubes have a few more hours on them...Have alot of different EF95 and EF92 tubes but will probably be awhile before I try them as these 408a's are very very nice. Just enjoying the music for now...


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## Killahertz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Killahertz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Gents, from reading between the lines of previous threads the Mullard M8161 appears to be a tube worth investigating with the LD I+. One (UK) eBay seller has both the old logo and new(er) logo varieties: is there any difference, and if so, which is the better for the I+.

eBay UK Shop - COLOMOR VALVES TUBES COMPONENTS: Audio Tubes Valves, Radio Tubes Valves, Collectible Vintage Tubes

 K._

 

Right, just plumped for a pair of old logo M8161. My first real foray into tube rolling, so i'm really looking forward to seeing how they react in the I+, and also how they stack up against the current Ediswan EF92. 

 PS: Am I right in thinking that the M8161 are essentially the same 'family' as the EF92, so will plug straight in with no need to change internal set-up?


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## HeatFan12

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Killahertz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Right, just plumped for a pair of old logo M8161. My first real foray into tube rolling, so i'm really looking forward to seeing how they react in the I+, and also how they stack up against the current Ediswan EF92. 

 PS: Am I right in thinking that the M8161 are essentially the same 'family' as the EF92, so will plug straight in with no need to change internal set-up?_

 

That is correct...EF92/M8161 EF91/CV138

 I threw in some Mullard EF91. The EF91 is a picky tube and I believe some had hum problems with it on the SE, however, the Mullards on the I+ are dead quiet.

 A bit warmer than the Ediswan EF92 but still not losing that Grado punch. I have also noticed better instrument separation with the EF91. I have a pair of JAN 6028s next in line. Going to shut it down in a few, let it cool down, switch jumpers for the 408A and enjoy...

 Good Times...


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## Killahertz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeatFan12* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That is correct...EF92/M8161 EF91/CV138

 I threw in some Mullard EF91. The EF91 is a picky tube and I believe some had hum problems with it on the SE, however, the Mullards on the I+ are dead quiet.

 A bit warmer than the Ediswan EF92 but still not losing that Grado punch. I have also noticed better instrument separation with the EF91. I have a pair of JAN 6028s next in line. Going to shut it down in a few, let it cool down, switch jumpers for the 408A and enjoy...

 Good Times..._

 

Thanks for that. I can't find the 408A locally (UK) as yet, but i've a few options for the time being


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## mapstec

I am stupid.... no really I am ....

 I got my LD I+ this morning, and of course could not wait...
 So I opened it up and changed the settings to allow me to run the 408A (in my case the Jan 6028).

 I complained about the fact that the unjumpered positions do not include the spare jumpers... *but I was wrong: The jumpers are included with the Audio cable* - silly me... 

 Anyway, the 6028 sound good for the early hours, the amp is not geeting too warm - call me happy!


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## taso89

Could different 408A tubes other than the WE ones sound different? I found Westinghouse and Philips ones on eBay.


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## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *taso89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Could different 408A tubes other than the WE ones sound different? I found Westinghouse and Philips ones on eBay._

 

Definitely! That's what this thread is here for. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Looks like Yen Audio has some Sylvania Gold 408A's listed... those should be good.


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## mapstec

I updated the first post with a few pictures of the tubes I have.

 Is anyone interested in doing a little tube swapping? Often you can not get simple pairs, so I have a few tubes I can trade.

 I am sure that others have different tubes / brands that they can spare as well.

 What do you say?


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## ironmine

Guys, please tell me about the maintenance of tubes before I buy this hybrid amp. How long is the useful life of tubes, do they burn out after some period of time? Does their quality reduce after a while?


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## mapstec

Ironmine,

 all electric parts deteriorate with time, the capacitors die after so many years etc.

 As for tubes, they have a certain life expectancy of a few thousand hours.

 The tubes we use in the LD1+ have a usage rating of up to 10.000 hours.

 You will probably upgrade your equipment many times over before you burn out a set of tubes.


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## darkswordsman17

I think I'm gonna go ahead and try this amp, any clue what might be good tubes to pair with W1000? Right now, I'm thinking I'll go with the basic and pick up some tubes (the higher end ones) on eBay.


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## taso89

Just throwing it out there, here's a couple of 408A rolling options:

https://www.tubeworld.com/400a723a.htm#_self

 I don't know what benefit you will get from cryo treatment but these are still cheaper than the $50 extra you'd pay for getting WE408A tubes to begin with. I wanna try out the Northern Electric and LM Ericsson Sweden NOS 408A's


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## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mapstec* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ironmine,

 all electric parts deteriorate with time, the capacitors die after so many years etc.

 As for tubes, they have a certain life expectancy of a few thousand hours.

 <snip>
_

 

So,

 Would this then mean I would best turn my tube amp off when not actively listening, rather than my currrent operating mode of leaving all my SS electronics on 24/7 unless not being used for an extended period of time?

 I currently only have SS equipment but am thinking of taking the plunge into tubes.

 [Hope I'm not taking the thread off topic]


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## HeatFan12

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So,

 Would this then mean I would best turn my tube amp off when not actively listening, rather than my currrent operating mode of leaving all my SS electronics on 24/7 unless not being used for an extended period of time?

 I currently only have SS equipment but am thinking of taking the plunge into tubes.

 [Hope I'm not taking the thread off topic]_

 


 Many different answers. I'll let mine run continuously (burning in tubes, amp etc), however, if I'm stepping out for a long period of time (work), I shut them down.

 Some run them 24 hours with no problems. For Little Dot the manual states 8 hours continuously then cool for one. I guess it all depends what your needs would be.


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## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeatFan12* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Many different answers. I'll let mine run continuously (burning in tubes, amp etc), however, if I'm stepping out for a long period of time (work), I shut them down.

 Some run them 24 hours with no problems. For Little Dot the manual states 8 hours continuously then cool for one. I guess it all depends what your needs would be._

 

Thx.

 Yeah, I think if I go tubes I'll likely something similar to what your doing. With my SS non-mechanical gear I never really ever shut down unless I don't intend to use a specific unit for, oh, a week or three, or more.

 I really dislike thermal cycling SS on a regular basis unless required.


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## HippieTom

Adding a little quesion in the tread.How would this amp be with k271s? you think i should get this or th dv 336se? ordering very soon so replies would be great. Thanx


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## taso89

Eh.. So I was gonna swap the opamp, one of the chassis screws was tight and I stripped it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was using a regular Phillips screwdriver. 

 If you're going to open this thing up, be careful with the amount of force you use as these screws are made of some very soft alloy or something. I don't know if there's anything I can do now, the other three screws came off without a problem.

 EDIT: I was sort of able to get around the one screw being attached. I have LT1364 in place right now, and I think I like it better already 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll listen some more and post impressions along with LT1469 and LM4562 later.


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## Gabe Logan

Gosh i forgot what they are called but there are these things that can remove screws like this that are stripped.They have them at your local hardware store.The name eludes me but ask them and they will know.You use a drill and out it in reverse.


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## taso89

I have a pair of Sylvania Gold Brand 408A's on the way but for anyone who has a LT1364: put it in. Enjoy.

 I feel that this opamp has improved definition across the spectrum; I felt that the stock opamp sounded very digital for a hybrid tube amp. Most of all, I felt a kind of 'veil' over the midrange with the stock opamp, especially in the upper midrange. The LT1364 took care of that. I can't wait to try LT1469, LM4562 and OPA627!

 EDIT: Now swapped in LT1469 and LM4562.

 LT1469 - I think it sounded similar to stock opamp. It's somewhere in between LT1364 and stock.

 LM4562 - Worse than stock! The midrange is just.. gone =\

 LT1364 is staying for now, I can't wait to try OPA627! Wish I could put an HDAM in this thing


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## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gabe Logan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Gosh i forgot what they are called but there are these things that can remove screws like this that are stripped.They have them at your local hardware store.The name eludes me but ask them and they will know.You use a drill and out it in reverse._

 

"Easy Out"

 I haven't seen the screw in question personally, since I don't have one of these amps yet, but smaller screws equivalent to the American 6, 8, or 10's can often be removed by simply drilling them out with a regular drill bit.


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## taso89

If you don't already have WE480 tubes, I recommend looking for some Sylvania 408A's instead.. hard to find but I like them a lot better than the Western Electrics. I felt the WE's were missing something in the midrange. I got some Sylvania Gold Brand ones on eBay but they appear to be very rare.. Well anyway, hope others explore other 408A rolling options!


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## Gabe Logan

Got some of those Sylvanias on the way so tube rolling should be very fun.


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## Dept_of_Alchemy

I would grab the Sylvania Gold Brands if I see them. They're always amazing sounding and very difficult to find.


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## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would grab the Sylvania Gold Brands if I see them. They're always amazing sounding and very difficult to find._

 

X2

 Peete.


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## REB

I put in the Philips NOS 408a tubes (thanks to Mapstec) yesterday instead of the WE 408a tubes. It's quite a difference. The tubes have been burning in for 10+ hours now and the sound is significantly warmer than before. I'm not sure, but I think I lost some detail, but the K701 likes these tubes a lot more than the Western Electric ones. The huge soundstage of the WE 408a has shrunk just a wee bit, making it a more intimate listening experience. Not sure which I like better, but I'm liking the variation very much.


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## malldian

Anyone looking to sell any of these?


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## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *malldian* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone looking to sell any of these?_

 

eBay Store - Yen Audio: Little Dot Upgrade Tubes: VOSHOD mil-spec 6J1P-EV 6AK5 NOS Little Dot Amp EF95

 The EF91, EF92, EF95 and 408A will all work on the I+.


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## malldian

I was doping someone who bought a bunch to test was looking to sell. Shoot me a PM if you got 'em. If not I will be trying the stock ones first.


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## LeftyGorilla

Not many impressions of the tubes yet...digging some impressions out of LD MKII and III tube rolling threads...

Dept_of_Alchemy on 6AK5 variants

ethebull on Stock GE's vs. Mullard M8100 vs. Amperex 5654

Penchum on Russian NOS 6Zh1P-EV EF95 Compatible Driver Tubes

ethebull's Big Ass Tube Review Part I

ethebull's Big Ass Tube Review Part II

ciphercomplete on the VOSHODs, Tung Sol/National 403B, Mullard 8161, Mullard 6AM6

Penchum on EF92 and EF95
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The "Mullard" flavor is a favorite with many tube freaks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Dept_of_Alchemy on EF92 and EF95

JimSmiley on M8161 and CV131

 more as I find them...



*some nice gleanings*

Glowing Tube Thread

Looks like a great tube source


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## QRanc

Just ordered my I+ last night! I can't wait to start rolling tubes. I've found tubes on ebay, and I'll probably order some. But, there's a great store where I live that has tons of tubes, so I'll check that out first. Which leads to my next question: How do I test the tubes to match them? I have a multimeter(not a great one), do I use it?


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## taso89

Easiest would be to get a matched pair on eBay from a reliable seller like yen1233 who use tube testers. If you're going to a store with tubes maybe they can check for you if the pair is matched? Also if you're going there make sure you write down all the tube-rolling options and take them with you so you know what you can pick from.


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## QRanc

Yeah, good call. I'd be pretty lost without a list.


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## QRanc

There's been some talk of rolling op-ampss in this thread as well. Anybody have any more experience with this, or is the main concentration on tubes.
 I've go t couple op-amps around I want to try(OPA2132 + OPA2227). Will the difference be as noticable as the tubes?


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## taso89

I've only tried WE and Sylvania 408A's and did notice a difference and the difference was about the same as rolling opamps. If you have a screw driver swapping opamps is very easy, just carefully unscrew the front and back bottom chassis screws (not the ones for the rubber feet), note where the wedge is on the opamp (I believe it faces the front of the chassis, don't take my word for it though), and just swap them. Again, be careful with the screws as I stripped one because it was on so tight. I would invite you to try whatever opamps you have, I tried everything but OPA627 which is going in the I+ as soon as my OPA-Earth for my Zero comes in tomorrow


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## Killahertz

Right, just a few thoughts on the (original) Ediswan EF92 and my recently-purchased Mullard M8161.

 Initial impressions of the Ediswan: wide open soundstage and incredible detail. 'Cooler' and less tube-like than you'd (i'd) imagine. Detail in the bass and vocal that amazed me. An overall sound that made it difficult to change amp, or even contemplate rolling the I+, but (eventually) roll I did. 

 The M8161. Really quite different than the Ediswan. Initial impressions: the retention of that incredible detail, but far more 'intimate'. I use intimate rather than a reduction or change of soundtstage because the effect is wholly positive (particularly with the right music) - and also note REB's use of the word, which I find sums the response perfectly. Warmer and more tube-like than the Ediswan, but oh that intimacy, it's actually difficult to put into words. Suffice to say i've got Eva Cassidy playing right now. She isn't simply singing, she's on the chair opposite, singing to me


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## malldian

Anyone interested in EF92 6CQ6 M8161 CV4015 Mullard Tube Matched Quads - eBay (item 380068038630 end time Oct-27-08 10:29:40 PDT) ?

 With the live discount we could get a good deal.


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## LeftyGorilla

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *malldian* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone interested in EF92 6CQ6 M8161 CV4015 Mullard Tube Matched Quads - eBay (item 380068038630 end time Oct-27-08 10:29:40 PDT) ?

 With the live discount we could get a good deal._

 

At that price? Well, I got a quad. But beware the delivery time is something like 2-3 weeks. 

 I swear that microsoft live cashback scheme is the best return on your money these days...


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## Pricklely Peete

Be aware that these look like the small shield tubes, not the big shield variety which are better in SQ. By how much I can't say since all I have is one pair of large shield 8161's (Thanks Ethebull for the trade !!!).

 DOA can explain these differences better since he has experienced these tubes in far greater depth than I have. I'm sure these are good tubes though....FWIW. Just something to think about.

 Peete.


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## LeftyGorilla

Drat? Well, lesson learned.

 I am curious enough to see what differences there might be among 4 tubes of the same manufacture and matched to boot. Given the potentially large number of folks getting the LD1+, there might be someone interested in hearing them and given what I paid, probably I can let 2 of the 4 go for the price of postage.

 But it's another week at least before I have the amp in hand, so probably I should just stop buying tubes until at least I have heard the Ediswans...


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## HeatFan12

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeftyGorilla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Drat? Well, lesson learned.

 I am curious enough to see what differences there might be among 4 tubes of the same manufacture and matched to boot. Given the potentially large number of folks getting the LD1+, there might be someone interested in hearing them and given what I paid, probably I can let 2 of the 4 go for the price of postage.

 But it's another week at least before I have the amp in hand, so probably I should just stop buying tubes until at least I have heard the Ediswans..._

 

I bought a quad from triodeel about a month ago and they sound great. You will get them sooner than 2-3 weeks. Mine took about a week.
 I think if you buy in bulk it's 2-3 weeks.

 The Ediswans are good too. Mullard EF91 excellent. Those are my go to tubes. There are so many possibilities with this little amp, it's hard to just have a couple of pairs...

 Happy rolling


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## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeftyGorilla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Drat? Well, lesson learned.

 I am curious enough to see what differences there might be among 4 tubes of the same manufacture and matched to boot. Given the potentially large number of folks getting the LD1+, there might be someone interested in hearing them and given what I paid, probably I can let 2 of the 4 go for the price of postage.

 But it's another week at least before I have the amp in hand, so probably I should just stop buying tubes until at least I have heard the Ediswans..._

 

Oh don't get me wrong...I'm sure these are good tubes, it's just the large shield versions are the most sought after from what I understand. 2 matched pairs of genuine Mullards at that price is always a good deal. I'm sure you'll enjoy them regardless 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete.


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## taso89

Well now that my OPA-Earth came in for my Zero DAC, I threw the OPA627 in the I+. Things I could detect:
 -I find myself turning the volume up louder.
 -A little more bass presence.
 -Much, much better channel seperation.

 It's staying in for now


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## Planar_head

^ Time to change your sig 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What about tthe OPA-Earth in the I+? Or is it not possible (probably a noob question, but I'd figure I'd ask to fill my curiousty).


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## taso89

^ It is changed! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just by eye, I'd have to say that without some kind of modification the HDAM will not fit in the I+


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## Planar_head

Thoughts:

 Anyone have/try this this opamp yet? 

 I'm guessing no one has, so if I ever get this amp I'll try this, unless anyone has negative experiences with it.


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## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Planar_head* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thoughts:

 Anyone have/try this this opamp yet? 

 I'm guessing no one has, so if I ever get this amp I'll try this, unless anyone has negative experiences with it._

 

My Thoughts:

 Verify if your amp has (originally) an MC33078 as stated by some users in the original LD 1+ thread.

 The MC33078 is a dual op amp and the AD797 is a single (according to the link you provided). 

 If so, it won't work. The pin-outs are different (amongst other things).

 I'd verify whether the MC33078 is the stock op-amp myself, except my LD 1+ somehow got sent to an address in California instead of my home in Chicago. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Edit: Oops...of course a pair of 'em COULD work with the proper adapter (Brown Dog, etc.)...hope I didn't insult your intelligence.


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## Planar_head

Oh... D'oh.

 Thats what happens when you don't know what you're doing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for answering my novice question, and pointing me the right way.


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## Pricklely Peete

It would be interesting to try a pair of AD797's in the proper adapter of course.

 The big question to me is using an HDAM module ....with an extension lead it may be possible to use one. I don't have the amp to try so it's just a guess by looking at pics of the internals.

 Peete.


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## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Planar_head* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh... D'oh.

 Thats what happens when you don't know what you're doing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for answering my novice question, and pointing me the right way._

 

NP.

 But as Peete also pointed out: There are adaptors to install 2 single op-amps into a dual application, if one really wanted to try a specific op-amp. This has been done quite a bit recently using the BB OP627's by the guys in the ZERO thread (in my sig), so much so, that sellers are now offering this two-op-amps-plus-adaptor as a standard upgrade option when purchasing a ZERO.

 BTW, the stock op-amp variants can go for less than 30 cents, at consumer retail individual item pricing, when I did a quickie check at Newark Electronics! That is a pretty inexpensive op-amp WRT some of the the op-amps were often playing around with in here (4-5 bux and up). No poor reflection on LD, per se, since it may very well be suited perfectly for it's intended use (I have no 1+ yet, nor any schematic).


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## REB

Did anyone try the Sylvania Gold Brand 408a tubes yet? I've ordered a pair, but haven't received them yet. I'm curious as to how they might sound.


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## taso89

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *REB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did anyone try the Sylvania Gold Brand 408a tubes yet? I've ordered a pair, but haven't received them yet. I'm curious as to how they might sound._

 

I have about 40 hours on my Sylvania Gold Brand 408a's and they sound quite good; better than the Western Electric variant.


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## Seba

I also bought some Sylvania Gold's from Yen Audio. It will take at least a week for them to come in Finland.


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## REB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *taso89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have about 40 hours on my Sylvania Gold Brand 408a's and they sound quite good; better than the Western Electric variant._

 

That's good to hear 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Mine should arrive any day now...


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## Morb

OMG.. well i've ordered my LD I+ ... and i'm looking into some tubes for when the amp arrives. I'm new at this scene... what do you guys recommend?

 Everyone says Mullard M8161? 
 these: 
eBay.be: CV4015 M8161 EF92 9D6 MULLARD QDD TUBE VALVE NOS E PAIR (object 270280786830 eindtijd 27-nov-08 12:42:21 CET)

 Are they any good.. any other suggestions?

 There's this shop on ebay from the UK which is good for me as i'm from belgium 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




eBay Store - The Tube Zone: New Old Stock Tubes, Tube Sockets, New Tubes

 suggestions please?


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## bigjim82

For what it's worth, I just bought 4 GE 408A's for $1.00 each from piexx.com (now they are $1.49). Still waiting on the amp and the tubes.

 Has anybody got an opinion on the opa627 with 408A combo yet?


----------



## StratCat

Something of interest to you guys that just ordered the 408A Sylvi Golds from Yen Audio that you may want to know (to gloat over):

 You guys paid 48 USD per set (minus any MSLive discount) last week and bought out his entire lot except for one remaining set. That last set then immediately went from "Buy Now" to "Bid" auction status, with a minnumum bid of 48 USD.

 I watched bidding all week, and there were no bidders. Today I watched the auction, in real-time, expire w/o any bids (I considerd sniping, but passed for non-related reasons - I had already decided to get some WE408's I found locally).

 So what happenned to that last set?

 They re-listed w/i minutes as a bid auction with a 48 USD minimum + a 89 USD "Buy Now" option!

Check It Out

 Sounds like marketing to me.

 (and yes, there now is a part of me that wishes I sniped it at 48.xx USD!)


----------



## googan

waiting for my LD I+ to arrive. I'm new to tube rolling. is the 408a type supposed to be best out of the three supported types? is it because of the higher voltage heater rating? 

 i got in on the $1.50 per piece GE 408a's. A little under $12 shipped for 4 pieces.


----------



## malldian

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bigjim82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For what it's worth, I just bought 4 GE 408A's for $1.00 each from piexx.com (now they are $1.49). Still waiting on the amp and the tubes.

 Has anybody got an opinion on the opa627 with 408A combo yet?_

 

Are they matched from there?


----------



## googan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *malldian* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are they matched from there?_

 

Good question.. Someone posted on the Little Dot forums that they were selling them matched, but it says nothing on the Piexx website. I sent over an email asking if they match so I'll let you know when I hear from them. 

 How important is tube matching anyway for a headphone amp? I've read that it shouldn't make much or any audible difference most of the time.


----------



## REB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Something of interest to you guys that just ordered the 408A Sylvi Golds from Yen Audio that you may want to know (to gloat over):

 You guys paid 48 USD per set (minus any MSLive discount) last week and bought out his entire lot except for one remaining set. That last set then immediately went from "Buy Now" to "Bid" auction status, with a minnumum bid of 48 USD.

 I watched bidding all week, and there were no bidders. Today I watched the auction, in real-time, expire w/o any bids (I considerd sniping, but passed for non-related reasons - I had already decided to get some WE408's I found locally).

 So what happenned to that last set?

 They re-listed w/i minutes as a bid auction with a 48 USD minimum + a 89 USD "Buy Now" option!

Check It Out

 Sounds like marketing to me.

 (and yes, there now is a part of me that wishes I sniped it at 48.xx USD!)_

 

Glad to hear they still have at least one pair... I've been waiting for mine (purchased at $48USD) to arrive for almost a month now...


----------



## taso89

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bigjim82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anybody got an opinion on the opa627 with 408A combo yet?_

 

Yeah I posted on it a couple of pages back. The only reason I'm keeping it in the I+ is because I have no use for it in the Zero now. The difference between this and LT1364 is negligible, if any. In fact I think I prefer the sound of the LT1364. However, both are a nice step up from the stock opamp. If you don't already have a spare OPA627 lying around I would just get a LT1364 which should be much cheaper.


----------



## Seba

My Sylvania's were shipped on 20 Oct so they should arrive next week.


----------



## googan

I just got a response back from Chris at Piexx who said it really isn't necessary to match tubes especially if they come from the same lot. So the GE 408A from Piexx don't come matched. Can't really blame them for the price though.


----------



## taso89

I'm not so sure.. I mean when you tap the left tube, you hear microphonic effects in the left channel on your headphones. Unmatched tubes could perhaps have a channel imbalance or something like that. Whether matched tubes are necessary is amp-dependent (correct me if I'm wrong). I wouldn't consider the guy you bought your tubes from a reliable source


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *taso89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not so sure.. I mean when you tap the left tube, you hear microphonic effects in the left channel on your headphones. Unmatched tubes could perhaps have a channel imbalance or something like that. Whether matched tubes are necessary is amp-dependent (correct me if I'm wrong). I wouldn't consider the guy you bought your tubes from a reliable source 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'll second that. Tubes like these are typically 30 to 60 years old and their measurements are all over the place, I've bought quite a few tubes from shady dealers that come terribly mismatched and that's why I only buy matched pairs from reputable dealers these days, I've found that it is cheaper this way in the long run not to mention the performance gains from running well matched tubes in your amp.

 - DoA


----------



## Seba

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seba* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Sylvania's were shipped on 20 Oct so they should arrive next week._

 

And they arrived about an hour ago...


----------



## REB

Finally got the Sylvania's. I'm listening to them through my K501 with K500 pads. Lisa Ekdahl sounds better than I've ever heard (well, from this amp that is). These tubes offer so much more refinement than either the Western Electrics or Philips tubes I tried. I liked those, but these Sylvania's are in quite another league. More detail, better instrument separation, better and much clearer highs. Bass is somewhat less though. Definitely been worth the wait.


----------



## REB

Funny, I also listened with my K500 with K601 pads and the highs were almost to bright. Overall, these tubes fit the K501 better than the K500.


----------



## StratCat

REB -

 Thanks for your impessions.

 How many hours on your new Syli's?


----------



## REB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_REB -

 Thanks for your impessions.

 How many hours on your new Syli's?_

 

About 3 now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





... Now listening to Radiohead's OK Computer with a pair of K401s. The crazily wide soundstage these had with the Western Electric tubes has given way to a still large, but more realistic soundstage. The highs are crystal clear with no hint of sibilance, presentation is fast and forward. Bass is good. In audio nirvana right now


----------



## StratCat

^^

 TY!


----------



## Seba

I find the Sylvania's as REB described. They will give the bass if needed. They are in another league than JAN Philips 6028. I find them so good that I'm planning to sell my MKIV SE to fund my other purchases.

 BTW What OPA would be good for op-amp replacement? OPA Moon, Sun or Earth? I don't know anything about them but I'm very curious to find out how they would perform in my I+


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *REB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Finally got the Sylvania's. I'm listening to them through my K501 with K500 pads. Lisa Ekdahl sounds better than I've ever heard (well, from this amp that is). These tubes offer so much more refinement than either the Western Electrics or Philips tubes I tried. I liked those, but these Sylvania's are in quite another league. More detail, better instrument separation, better and much clearer highs. Bass is somewhat less though. Definitely been worth the wait._

 

Wow, sounds like the Sylvania Gold 408A is the way to go with the 408A family. Not surprised though since the Sylvania Gold EF95 was one of the best in that family and I wished I had picked up a few pairs back when it wasn't sold out. Where did you get your pair?


----------



## googan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll second that. Tubes like these are typically 30 to 60 years old and their measurements are all over the place, I've bought quite a few tubes from shady dealers that come terribly mismatched and that's why I only buy matched pairs from reputable dealers these days, I've found that it is cheaper this way in the long run not to mention the performance gains from running well matched tubes in your amp.

 - DoA_

 

Well we'll see I guess. I bought 4 so hopefully 2 will match decently. I asked David over at Little Dot and he says the stock tubes he ships with the amp is unmatched as well. 

 If my tubes all turn out horribly unbalanced, I'll be out about $12 bucks. Live and learn


----------



## googan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seba* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I find the Sylvania's as REB described. They will give the bass if needed. They are in another league than JAN Philips 6028. I find them so good that I'm planning to sell my MKIV SE to fund my other purchases.

 BTW What OPA would be good for op-amp replacement? OPA Moon, Sun or Earth? I don't know anything about them but I'm very curious to find out how they would perform in my I+_

 

Is it confirmed that these HDAMs work with the I+?


----------



## taso89

^^

 No one has tried it because the HDAM will not fit in the I+ without having the bottom chassis plate off.


----------



## electropop

Hey guys!

 Any of you compared the basic 6J1's to say WE408A's..?

 The kick this amp delivers for your grados is unbelievable. I'm still running the stock 6J1's, but have a set of WE408A's. The chinese one's have been driven in and are more refined that they were without burn-in. But I'm still suffering from a little dryness and fatiguing trebles. (My graham slee voyager works around this perfectly, but doesn't give that kick).
 Oh well i guess i should just find out. Hopefully the 408s are not brighter but just better detailed. 

 Thanks

 -K


----------



## StratCat

Just wanted to weigh in with my impressions of LT1364 vs the stock MC33007 op-amp –

 This is with the stock base price tubes (6J1).

 Also, I’m listening to classical and using my K701’s.

 I felt the purely stock LD 1+ had just a tad too much HF roll off and smoothness. It was a bit too polite. But just a bit. It might just be I’m getting acclimated to a tube sound vs my previous all SS experience. From my experience with op-amp rolling in my Zero I knew the LT1364 was a fairly bright choice with qualities I liked in my all SS Zero’s HP amp section.

 Well, two hours in, I’m not exactly sure if I like the change. Actually, the LT1364 did much of what I hoped. It’s brighter, with more extended highs, definitely. But it may have gone too far over to the other side. I feel the LD 1+ lost a fair bit of its “tube-like” qualities, if that makes sense?

 The upper mids and highs greatly increased. There’s also a bit of edginess. In my zero, I tend to like a bit of edginess. It’s just strange to hear it in the LD 1+. It’s not highly objectionable. Just more SS like. I also felt the original op-amp/6J1 combo had a slight upper bass/lower mids blurring and weighting which I didn’t particularly like. This has been removed, but at the expense of that round very deep bass “lushness”. The emphasis has definitely shifted to the upper mids and highs, and has become more SS in character. Imaging has become sharper.

 I’m going to give the LT1364 some burn in time and my ears some time to adjust. I remember it took me two days to really come to appreciate the LT1364’s in my Zero when rolling from the stock NE55323’s. Oddly, the LT1364 has done much of what I thought I wanted (and expected). But doing so seemed to lose much of the LD 1+’s more tube-like character that differentiated it from my Zero sitting inches away, and which I A/B test often with the LD 1+ while rolling. Perhaps I don’t need an “LT1364 sound” in both amps.

 I’ll see what some time and trials with my other cans does for my perspective. There have been positive improvements. I don’t want this to sound overly negative.

 My $0.02 for now.


----------



## Seba

I'm planning to test AD8599 in place of LT1364. I have also 2xLT1028 and other op-amps worthy for testing.


----------



## StratCat

^^

 LM4562, and NE5532 (currently in-house) for me over the next several days.

 I also suspect the stock 6J1 tube is probably not helping me out a lot, either (I'm working on that, too).


----------



## googan

I got my 1+ and GE 408A tubes a few days ago. 

 You guys were right about unmatched tubes. I can hear the difference in amplitude between some pairings of the 4 tubes I bought. Had to try them in different pairs and switch em around a several times to find the best match of the tubes I bought. Thankfully, I can't tell the difference between the two tubes that match most closely.

 So yeah.. buying unmatched tubes are risky, even from the "same lot".


----------



## StratCat

Woot!

 Just won the Yen Audio eBay bid auction for the last set of matched NOS Sylvi Gold 408's! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 So now...which one of you guys grabbed all the remaing sets of NOS Mullard "old label" mil-spec M8161's last week??? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yeah, I know...you were just _"taking one for the team"_, eh? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 BTW, seems like there have been some longish shippng times seen in this thread. I now wonder if I should've used the $12 USD "International" shipping option, rather than the $8 USD "standard" option?

 Oh well, I'm just happy to have snagged the last set after missing them last week, and having to wait all week this week for the current auction to end.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *googan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got my 1+ and GE 408A tubes a few days ago. 

 You guys were right about unmatched tubes. I can hear the difference in amplitude between some pairings of the 4 tubes I bought. Had to try them in different pairs and switch em around a several times to find the best match of the tubes I bought. Thankfully, I can't tell the difference between the two tubes that match most closely.

 So yeah.. buying unmatched tubes are risky, even from the "same lot"._

 

Thanks for the feedback. Feedback is very important and that's why we hang out here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Last nite I was initially very happy to have stumbled upon these NOS Mullard M8161's

 O.K., "new label", but still: 23 bux incl free stateside shipping? And only one day from my house? Not too bad a deal. Way better than other Euro or Asian vendors in price, not to mention the added expense, wait times, and general and hassle of int'l shipping. 

 I almost pulled the trigger, but then after closer inspection, I couldn't find the word "matched" anywhere when referring to the tube "pair", nor any mention of a tube testor. A little more inspection of the seller's other items showed the seller has no other tubes or electronic gear that I could see, except for this small quantity of M8161's, so possibly has no tube-tester, either. I passed for immediate moment, but may ask the seller if the pairs are matched. I don't want to automatically assume they are not. But I refuse to buy an unmatched, untested, pair.

 Edit: Seller has now comfirmed via email that these tube pairs are not tested


----------



## StratCat

Looks like the much desired Mullard M8161 "old label" EF92's will not be available from Yen anymore.

 From Yen's email reply this morning:

 +++

_Hi chicago_stratcat, thank you for your interest in my items. We have no plans to stock anymore of the Mullard M8161 tubes in the near future due to the rarity of the large shield tubes. 

 Please check out the United Electron EF92 we have in stock now, they are very good sounding tubes as well. 

 I hope I've answered your question and please feel free to contact me again with any questions or comments._

 +++

 *sigh*


----------



## darkswordsman17

Currently I've got a stock cheap-o setup (stock opamp, cheapest standard tube option), and plan on having some W5000s on the way to go with it. I've got 2 questions:

 1.) Anyone else have this pair and can offer a few solid opamp and/or tube recommendations? 

 2.) Best (reputable) place to find said recommendations?


----------



## REB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just wanted to weigh in with my impressions of LT1364 vs the stock MC33007 op-amp –

 This is with the stock base price tubes (6J1).

 Also, I’m listening to classical and using my K701’s.

 I felt the purely stock LD 1+ had just a tad too much HF roll off and smoothness. It was a bit too polite. But just a bit. It might just be I’m getting acclimated to a tube sound vs my previous all SS experience. From my experience with op-amp rolling in my Zero I knew the LT1364 was a fairly bright choice with qualities I liked in my all SS Zero’s HP amp section.

 Well, two hours in, I’m not exactly sure if I like the change. Actually, the LT1364 did much of what I hoped. It’s brighter, with more extended highs, definitely. But it may have gone too far over to the other side. I feel the LD 1+ lost a fair bit of its “tube-like” qualities, if that makes sense?

 The upper mids and highs greatly increased. There’s also a bit of edginess. In my zero, I tend to like a bit of edginess. It’s just strange to hear it in the LD 1+. It’s not highly objectionable. Just more SS like. I also felt the original op-amp/6J1 combo had a slight upper bass/lower mids blurring and weighting which I didn’t particularly like. This has been removed, but at the expense of that round very deep bass “lushness”. The emphasis has definitely shifted to the upper mids and highs, and has become more SS in character. Imaging has become sharper.

 I’m going to give the LT1364 some burn in time and my ears some time to adjust. I remember it took me two days to really come to appreciate the LT1364’s in my Zero when rolling from the stock NE55323’s. Oddly, the LT1364 has done much of what I thought I wanted (and expected). But doing so seemed to lose much of the LD 1+’s more tube-like character that differentiated it from my Zero sitting inches away, and which I A/B test often with the LD 1+ while rolling. Perhaps I don’t need an “LT1364 sound” in both amps.

 I’ll see what some time and trials with my other cans does for my perspective. There have been positive improvements. I don’t want this to sound overly negative.

 My $0.02 for now._

 

Thanks for the impressions! Maybe now I'll muster some courage and switch opamps...


----------



## TKvC-SainT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *darkswordsman17* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Currently I've got a stock cheap-o setup (stock opamp, cheapest standard tube option), and plan on having some W5000s on the way to go with it. I've got 2 questions:

 1.) Anyone else have this pair and can offer a few solid opamp and/or tube recommendations? 

 2.) Best (reputable) place to find said recommendations?_

 

I have a pair of W5000 which I very much enjoy with the original OPamp and WE408A tubes. Haven´t tried any other options yet, but threads like this sure makes me think about it, like Sylvania Gold 408A


----------



## Mike_TNT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TKvC-SainT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a pair of W5000 which I very much enjoy with the original OPamp and WE408A tubes. Haven´t tried any other options yet, but threads like this sure makes me think about it, like Sylvania Gold 408A 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

No kidding. I'm listening to my AD900s with Siemens tubes and it sounds sweet but I'm still pining for those Sylvanias. Especially since Cat sniped me on the previous pair from Yen.

 Anyone of you bought those whole sets of Syls on ebay recently and would like to share?


----------



## Trapper32

I may have a few sets of the Sylvania Gold 408's for sale after I test and match them...If you're interested you can PM me...


----------



## Mike_TNT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trapper32* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I may have a few sets of the Sylvania Gold 408's for sale after I test and match them...If you're interested you can PM me..._

 

Thanks for the offer! Pm sent.


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *REB* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the impressions! Maybe now I'll muster some courage and switch opamps..._

 

I highly sggest you do. It can change the sound signature significantly, and is generally less expensive than rolling tubes.

 And it's extremely easily done. If you can comfortably roll a tube, you can roll an op-amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Edit: If any Q's about rolling op-amps don't hesitate to ask!


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mike_TNT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No kidding. I'm listening to my AD900s with Siemens tubes and it sounds sweet but I'm still pining for those Sylvanias. Especially since Cat sniped me on the previous pair from Yen._

 

 Ooops. Sry! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But interestingly, it seems that wasn't the last pair of Sylvi Golds after all. Yen relisted them as a single item bid auction with a 48 USD min and a 89 USD "Buy it Now" option, which I'm sure you're aware of.

 Hope your deal works out with Trapper32. BTW, mine haven't shipped yet, either.


----------



## TKvC-SainT

So I´m getting interested in this OPamp swapping, just that I have no experience of that at all, so I don´t know which will work for this amp, which are generally thought as "the best".

 I´m pleased with the amp as is though, but still intrigued at what changes can be had by switching the OPamp.


----------



## Trapper32

Regarding different opamps..i've tried the 627's on a browndog, 2132,2134,2107, LM49720 (4562) LM6172 and the LT1358. I think the 2107 or (2) 627 are my favorites. Has anyone tried the AD797's yet or other LT's


----------



## TKvC-SainT

So if I understand correctly can I buy these: 2xDual Low Noise HiFi OpAmp Pro audio OPA2107AP OPA2107 - eBay (item 110304246328 end time Nov-25-08 01:35:47 PST) And just use 1 of them, or do I need some kind of adapter to use 2?

 And if I once more understand this right, these are used in a pair with some kind of adapter: http://cgi.ebay.com/Burr-Brown-BB-OP...3A1|240%3A1318


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TKvC-SainT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So if I understand correctly can I buy these: 2xDual Low Noise HiFi OpAmp Pro audio OPA2107AP OPA2107 - eBay (item 110304246328 end time Nov-25-08 01:35:47 PST) And just use 1 of them, or do I need some kind of adapter to use 2?

 And if I once more understand this right, these are used in a pair with some kind of adapter: Burr Brown BB OPA627 AU Operational Amplifiers OPAMP - eBay (item 130262661541 end time Nov-14-08 02:03:03 PST)_

 

Yep,,,,you only need one of the 2107 since its a dual opamp....no adapter needed..

 and yep you need two 627s on an adapter since they are single opamps....that listing is a bit ambiquous to me tho....is it for 2 627 on that adapter... with the 627au ..one is usually soldered on top of the adapter and one underneath....or if the 627s are of the DIP version then a different adapter(browndog) is used and the opamps are mounted side by side...I use this adapter and had to trim abit of the browndog to make it fit...


----------



## TKvC-SainT

Alright, I think I´ll just go ahead and buy the 2107, seems like the easier choice. And no I think that auction for the 627s is 1 piece only, and that adapter looks like it just has 1 opamp soldered to it.


----------



## Ghoul

Hey all, all this op-amp talk has got my curiosity going. Any advice on a op-amp that would be suited for metal music. I have no experience with op-amps, so help would be appreciated.


----------



## blynch1

Anyone have experience running this with Emu 0404 and D2000, and if so how did is sound compared to running it off the Emu's built in amp?

 Also how does the I+ compare to a decent starving student hybrid?


----------



## TKvC-SainT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ghoul* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey all, all this op-amp talk has got my curiosity going. Any advice on a op-amp that would be suited for metal music. I have no experience with op-amps, so help would be appreciated._

 

Can´t say much on the matter yet, but I have ordered an OPA2107, and I listen mostly to different types of metal. So if noone has filled in with some info, I can when I´ve recieved it (~1 week), installed it and compared it to the standard opamp.

 That is if I´m able to hear any difference


----------



## Mike_TNT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ooops. Sry! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But interestingly, it seems that wasn't the last pair of Sylvi Golds after all. Yen relisted them as a single item bid auction with a 48 USD min and a 89 USD "Buy it Now" option, which I'm sure you're aware of.

 Hope your deal works out with Trapper32. BTW, mine haven't shipped yet, either._

 

Oh hey, no problem. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Strange thing about the relisting, I really thought it was the last pair.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trapper32* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep,,,,you only need one of the 2107 since its a dual opamp....no adapter needed..

 and yep you need two 627s on an adapter since they are single opamps....that listing is a bit ambiquous to me tho...._

 

Doh! I ordered a pair of 627s from tube_buyer and had no idea they needed an adapter.


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mike_TNT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh hey, no problem. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Strange thing about the relisting, I really thought it was the last pair.



 Doh! I ordered a pair of 627s from tube_buyer and had no idea they needed an adapter._

 

Try emailing him and see if he can mount them on an adapter for you....


----------



## Mike_TNT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trapper32* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Try emailing him and see if he can mount them on an adapter for you...._

 

Too late, they shipped 2 days ago. Well there goes 30$.


----------



## TKvC-SainT

Maybe this would work(?): 2Pcs PCB MONO TO DUAL OPAMP OPA627AM/BP/AP OPA637 AD797 - eBay (item 280284951563 end time Nov-19-08 04:53:55 PST)

 Can´t say for sure, but could work. If anyone else knows they can fill in.


----------



## Mike_TNT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TKvC-SainT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe this would work(?): 2Pcs PCB MONO TO DUAL OPAMP OPA627AM/BP/AP OPA637 AD797 - eBay (item 280284951563 end time Nov-19-08 04:53:55 PST)

 Can´t say for sure, but could work. If anyone else knows they can fill in._

 

Hey, thanks. That looks like it might fit the bill! Can anyone confirm?


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mike_TNT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, thanks. That looks like it might fit the bill! Can anyone confirm?_

 

Those will work if your 627's are the DIP version...If they're the SOIC ones you'll need to solder them on a different adapter....


 These are the same adapters I'm using with my 627's but I had to put another spacer under the adapter to raise it up a bit to clear some caps.. 

 You didn't waste your $30...you'll be able to adapt them i'm sure...


----------



## Mike_TNT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trapper32* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Those will work if your 627's are the DIP version...If they're the SOIC ones you'll need to solder them on a different adapter....


 These are the same adapters I'm using with my 627's but I had to put another spacer under the adapter to raise it up a bit to clear some caps.. 

 You didn't waste your $30...you'll be able to adapt them i'm sure..._

 

Alright, they look like they're the DIP version. OPAMP 627AP 

 So all is not lost after all and I'll see what I can do once I get my hands on them. Thanks again.

 I didn't know there was a BP version of these Opamps though. Should I have gone for those?


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mike_TNT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Alright, they look like they're the DIP version. OPAMP 627AP 

 So all is not lost after all and I'll see what I can do once I get my hands on them. Thanks again.

 I didn't know there was a BP version of these Opamps though. Should I have gone for those?_

 

Yep those are the DIP ones so you'll be good to go with that adapter...You may or may not need a spacer tho.....
 The AP's are fine for what you will be using them for...I doubt anyone could tell the difference SQ wise between the two...


----------



## Mike_TNT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trapper32* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep those are the DIP ones so you'll be good to go with that adapter...You may or may not need a spacer tho.....
 The AP's are fine for what you will be using them for...I doubt anyone could tell the difference SQ wise between the two..._

 

Great!

 So you mean the adapter might not sit well in the opamp socket because of the caps being in the way? What did you use as a spacer?


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mike_TNT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great!

 So you mean the adapter might not sit well in the opamp socket because of the caps being in the way? What did you use as a spacer?_

 


 Yes it wouldn't fully seat...I had a DIP8 extension laying around that I used...Can't remember where I picked it up...it was for use in one of my portable amps but basically it is one half of the top part of that adapter (the black part)...8 holes on the top to 8 pins on the bottom...You plug the adapter into the extension and the extension into the amp....Easier to do than to explain....

 Sorry I can't seem to find one right now..maybe someone else knows where one can be located off hand..


----------



## Mike_TNT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trapper32* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes it wouldn't fully seat...I had a DIP8 extension laying around that I used...Can't remember where I picked it up...it was for use in one of my portable amps but basically it is one half of the top part of that adapter (the black part)...8 holes on the top to 8 pins on the bottom...You plug the adapter into the extension and the extension into the amp....Easier to do than to explain....

 Sorry I can't seem to find one right now..maybe someone else knows where one can be located off hand.._

 

You mean something like this?


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mike_TNT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You mean something like this?




_

 

Yep thats it


----------



## StratCat

Guys -

 All these miscellaneous adaptors and chip sockets can be found Stateside at: Cimarron Technology

 Poke around and you'll likely find what you want w/o having to go eBay or overseas.

 Edit: Mike, I just realized you're in Montreal. Still might be worth giving them a call to see if they ship to Quebec.

 (If you guys don't secede before they get there)


----------



## StratCat

From Yen:

 +++

_Dear chicago_stratcat,

 Thank you for your purchase and prompt payment. This message confirms that your item has been shipped today via USPS First Class mail and should be arriving within one to two weeks. Again, thank you for your purchase and please feel free to contact me with any questions or comments._

 +++

 Sylvi Gold 408;'s + reference WE408's.

 Tempe to Chicago. Can't imagine them taking more than 2 - 3 business days. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now if only I could find those elusive Mullard "Large Shield" M8161's!


----------



## Mike_TNT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Guys -

 All these miscellaneous adaptors and chip sockets can be found Stateside at: Cimarron Technology

 Poke around and you'll likely find what you want w/o having to go eBay or overseas.

 Edit: Mike, I just realized you're in Montreal. Still might be worth giving them a call to see if they ship to Quebec.

 (If you guys don't secede before they get there) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yep they do ship here, I just placed an order. And I doubt we'll secede anytime soon, everyone seems too preoccupied by the economy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for the help all, I should have all the pieces I need.


----------



## StratCat

Just grabbed a matched tested pair of mid 70's Mullard CV4015's (M8161/EF92 equiv)

 Hard to resist at 13 bux _including_ Stateside delivery. From a listing on eBay Ireland, of all places, tho not surprising I suppose (Didn't even know there was an eBay.ie!).

 Pretty impressive that the seller listed the test specs for each tube.

 Looks like that was the only pair he had...the auction ended with my purchase now...oh well...


----------



## StratCat

Hrm...

 After taking a closer look at last week's email from Yen confirming shipment, I now see s/he uses USPS _First Class_ rather than what I assumed would be USPS _Priority Mail_. I then also noticed s/he ships w/o insurance.

 This leaves me somewhat uneasy. 

 There's no tracking number and no insurance. What happens if there's a SNAFU? Considering I just went thru a minor glitch with LD but was able to rectify the issue quickly with David by reconciling our tracking numbers.

 Anyone ever have to resolve any shippping issues with Yen?


----------



## TKvC-SainT

So, today I recieved my new OPA2107, and as promised I will try to give my impressions on the changes versus the standard opamp.

 First thing I noticed was that the volume seemed lower than before, when I had the standard opamp I couldn´t go much further than around the 10 mark, and now with the OPA2107 that was way to low.

 Actual sonic differences, it´s harder to say exactly what changed. What I noticed most, was that it seemed to be less bright, which in turn makes the midrange come out a bit more. Bass also seems to have become a bit louder than before, again all this could just be the slightly lower brightness, which makes the mid and bass seem louder.

 So would I pick the OPA2107 over the standard opamp? Well yes, I think that mostly the slightly reduced brightness makes listening easier, and that the midrange comes out a bit more is a bonus. The bass region is probably what bothers me slightly, the upper bass is a bit more pronounced, which in it self isn´t all bad, but I think that makes the lower bass a bit more quiet.


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StratCat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hrm...

 After taking a closer look at last week's email from Yen confirming shipment, I now see s/he uses USPS First Class rather than what I assumed would be USPS Priority Mail. I then also noticed s/he ships w/o insurance.

 This leaves me somewhat uneasy. 

 There's no tracking number and no insurance. What happens if there's a SNAFU? Considering I just went thru a minor glitch with LD but was able to rectify the issue quickly with David by reconciling our tracking numbers.

 Anyone ever have to resolve any shippping issues with Yen?_

 

That's how he usually ships. I have ordered several pairs from him in the past and never had any problems.

 The 2 week delivery response is general. I received them usually in about 4 days to Miami, FL.


----------



## Danika k

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeatFan12* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's how he usually ships. I have ordered several pairs from him in the past and never had any problems.

 The 2 week delivery response is general. I received them usually in about 4 days to Miami, FL._

 

Same here, I just bought a matched pair of Voshod 6ZH1P-EV from Yen Audio and got them within three days, Im in Texas btw. The voshods sound amazing too!


----------



## electropop

Someone stated that changing the op-amp might make a difference in bass-extension for example. I am quite happy with the stock 6J1's bass quality/extension. The WE408's just opened up the sound to different levels but lack bass seriously. I can't follow those nice jazzy bass-lines any longer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My question: Would i be able to logically deduce that changing the stock op-amp to a more bass-heavy one (if there is something like it) and then use the WE408A's for a brilliant combination of clear, open and detailed sound without the cost of losing bass? 

 Thanks

 -K


----------



## Akselpaksel

Have you burned them in? I don't know about the op-amp but burning in doesn't cost you anything so just wait a while and burn in. See what happens.


----------



## electropop

Both have something like 40 hrs.. And actually today i made the impression that the 6J!'s lack bass while being very smooth and actually boring sounding 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. At this moment I'm enjoying my AD2000's with GS Voyager. Everything seems to be as it should. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Haven't listened to grados too much after i got the AT's. But changes in characteristics seemed to apply to both cans. Very interesting to see how a single element in sound can change so rapidly jumping up and down, in a burn-in period of a tube.. 

 Thanks 

 -K


----------



## StratCat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeatFan12* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's how he usually ships. I have ordered several pairs from him in the past and never had any problems.

 The 2 week delivery response is general. I received them usually in about 4 days to Miami, FL._

 


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Danika k* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Same here, I just bought a matched pair of Voshod 6ZH1P-EV from Yen Audio and got them within three days, Im in Texas btw. The voshods sound amazing too! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks for the replies.

 Yeah, I’m not concerned with or doubtful of Yen (his rep’s good), as that there’s no tracking check if some oddity occurs. When I originally ordered, there was negative feedback and a negative comment from a buyer complaining he never received his item, only several orders before mine. Now that I know there’s no tracking, I can easily understand how honest disputes may arise if the Postal Svc FUBARs or someone swipes that package of the front stoop. 

 No real biggie, but still, I’d hate to have a chance of any ill will occurring if a shipping problem happened, having myself just had a postal issue, which like I said, was resolved very easily when using the tracking data. Tracking doesn’t just protect the buyer but the seller, also.

 Oh well…that being said, my order arrived shortly after posting. I ordered Monday during the day, and received it the following Monday; 5 business days. Very well packed and everything in seemingly good condition, but I won’t get to try the new tubes out ‘till later tonight, if that.


----------



## cristox

hi!

 I just pinned those tubes on ebay.






link

 Are they any good?
 Is it possible that they are the much sought after Mullard M8161 with the large shield logo?


----------



## Trapper32

Congrats...I have those Mullards with the same shield in the M8100 version and they are very nice....A very musical toe tapping tube...nice midrange...very smooth



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cristox* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi!

 I just pinned those tubes on ebay.






link

 Are they any good?
 Is it possible that they are the much sought after Mullard M8161 with the large shield logo?



_


----------



## pleco00

I just recently acquired a slightly used LDI+ with stock tubes. Amp came with no manual so if someone please provide me with the correct jumper and switch settings if I am to do some tube rolling. I am waiting for some sylvi gold 408a and mullard cv131 to arrive.

 Thanks in advance for any help.


----------



## Morb

still looking for a nice tube for my little dot I... would love some better music quality but they have to be a bit decent too for gaming...

 suggestions? (ld I+ / X-fi / ath-a900)


----------



## cristox

Copy and paste from the LittleDot l+ reference guide pdf.


 To use WE408A tubes:
 1. K1 and K2 set to the side of the “WE408A” text
 2. Make sure the jumper caps are removed from J1 and J2 (open circuit)

 To use 6JI, 6AK5, 5654, WE403A/B, etc:
 1. K1 and K2 set to the side of the “6JI” text
 2. Make sure the jumper caps are removed from J1 and J2 (open circuit)

 To use EF91, EF92, CV131, CV138, etc:
 1. K1 and K2 set to the side of the “6JI” text
 2. Make sure the jumpers caps are in place over both J1 and J2 (short circuit)

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pleco00* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_someone please provide me with the correct jumper and switch settings if I am to do some tube rolling._


----------



## pleco00

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cristox* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Copy and paste from the LittleDot l+ reference guide pdf._

 

Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!


----------



## bnuttz

So has there been a consensus on what opamps work well with this amp? I'm soon to be rocking it with some Sylvania Gold 408a tubes. Thanks Trapper.

 I am leaning towards 1364s, but 627s on a browndog are tempting as well, if not pricey. Anybody have any thoughts?


----------



## Akselpaksel

Hey guys

 Anyone have any experience with Western Electric 403B tubes?
 Yen audio has them for 36$ and i'm considering buying a pair.


----------



## bronth

Hi there.

 I got my amp in October and recently got a pair of NOS EF92 by Mullard from a 100% trusted eBay seller for just 6 (!) bucks incl. shipping from UK to continental Europe. It seems to be a 'new logo' industrial, not military, variety, but considering the price... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Both tubes work perfect and they came unmatched (as well as the stock ones) and, obviously, even untested. Being a musician and a sound engineer, I have more or less 'well-tuned' ears and I can't hear any stereo image anomalies. In comparison (after some burn-in) to the cheapest Chinese stock tubes these Mullards have more detailed and balanced presentation in the mid-upper register, better instrument separation but lack a bit some specific bass 'pump' and female vocals sparkle. But overall they are very good 'tuning option', more 'mature' in their character than the stock 'funny kids'. Haven't tried any of 408As yet, just haven't found them for cheap and don't want to pay a lot just for the hype (but later I'll try them as well as some different opamps).

 My music tastes include classics, rock, metal, some pop, trip-hop, jazz, ethnics, etc. I use Digidesign MBox 2 Pro as my primary workstation and DAC (BTW, it has a decent pair of solid-state headphone outs) and listen through different low-impedance cans: Audio-Technica ATH-M50 (the best mixing and analitical listening option available but rather uncomfortable to wear), Shure E2C (some roll-off in the highs, but still monitors and great bang-for-the-buck), Alessandro MS-1 and AKG K66 (my older set, but being circum-aural and paired with LD I+ these underrated cheapies CAN outshine my friend's Sennheiser HD595 almost in every aspect, except occasional sibilance level and lower bass extension; it seems embarrasing even for me, but my ears are a better advisor than any brand hype).

 Just my 'extended' 2 cents. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 __________________________________

 Andrei


----------



## bigjim82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bronth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi there.

 I got my amp in October and recently got a pair of NOS EF92 by Mullard from a 100% trusted eBay seller for just 6 (!) bucks incl. shipping from UK to continental Europe. It seems to be a 'new logo' industrial, not military, variety, but considering the price... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Both tubes work perfect and they came unmatched (as well as the stock ones) and, obviously, even untested. Being a musician and a sound engineer, I have more or less 'well-tuned' ears and I can't hear any stereo image anomalies. In comparison (after some burn-in) to the cheapest Chinese stock tubes these Mullards have more detailed and balanced presentation in the mid-upper register, better instrument separation but lack a bit some specific bass 'pump' and female vocals sparkle. But overall they are very good 'tuning option', more 'mature' in their character than the stock 'funny kids'. Haven't tried any of 408As yet, just haven't found them for cheap and don't want to pay a lot just for the hype (but later I'll try them as well as some different opamps).

 My music tastes include classics, rock, metal, some pop, trip-hop, jazz, ethnics, etc. I use Digidesign MBox 2 Pro as my primary workstation and DAC (BTW, it has a decent pair of solid-state headphone outs) and listen through different low-impedance cans: Audio-Technica ATH-M50 (the best mixing and analitical listening option available but rather uncomfortable to wear), Shure E2C (some roll-off in the highs, but still monitors and great bang-for-the-buck), Alessandro MS-1 and AKG K66 (my older set, but being circum-aural and paired with LD I+ these underrated cheapies CAN outshine my friend's Sennheiser HD595 almost in every aspect, except occasional sibilance level and lower bass extension; it seems embarrasing even for me, but my ears are a better advisor than any brand hype).

 Just my 'extended' 2 cents. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 __________________________________

 Andrei_

 

 Welcome to Head-Fi and sorry about your wallet!

 If you would like to try a pair of cheap 408A's they can be had here (I see from your post you are in Europe, so this may not be helpful for you):

408A Tube [408A] - $1.49 : Piexx Company, Computers & Electronics

 As far as I know they are not matched pairs but the ones I got seem to work very well together. I ran through the volume from silent up past normal listening volume and could not hear an imbalance.

 I have the GE408A's running right now with a LT1364 opamp and think it sounds great with my MS2i's.


----------



## Morb

Can someone tell me if it's normal that my Little dot does the following:

 My pc is turned off, i put on the headphones and turn the amp volume open on their max. I hear glitches / buzzing. I disconnect the audio cable from my computer and the noise is gone.

 Is this normal?


----------



## Morb

Which tubes are adviced? I listen to all kinds of music and do game a fair bit.
 Don't want to lose alot of bass which my ath-a900 pump out.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Morb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which tubes are adviced? I listen to all kinds of music and do game a fair bit.
 Don't want to lose alot of bass which my ath-a900 pump out._

 

Start with the Mullard M8100 and the Voshod 6ZH1P-EV.


----------



## electropop

6AV6 [6AV6] - $3.75 : Piexx Company, Computers & Electronics

 Can I use these with my LD I+?


----------



## electropop

Hey all!

 I just went and ordered two pairs of 408A:s from here:
408A Tube [408A] - $1.49 : Piexx Company, Computers & Electronics

 I don't know anything about them, but they weren't expensive. Two pairs just in case there's any significant mismatching..

 Thanks for the link Bigjim! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -K rogers out..


----------



## 928GTS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *electropop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey all!

 I just went and ordered two pairs of 408A:s from here:
408A Tube [408A] - $1.49 : Piexx Company, Computers & Electronics

 I don't know anything about them, but they weren't expensive. Two pairs just in case there's any significant mismatching..

 Thanks for the link Bigjim! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -K rogers out.._

 

Look to be late production(...the box they show in the picture has a packed date of 6/87)GE offerings which were probably ordered on a JAN contract as most JAN tubes are packed in such boxes with such labeling on the side. Its good stuff,nice find!


----------



## electropop

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *928GTS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Look to be late production(...the box they show in the picture has a packed date of 6/87)GE offerings which were probably ordered on a JAN contract as most JAN tubes are packed in such boxes with such labeling on the side. Its good stuff,nice find!_

 

I can post some impressions when i've had the chance to play with them a little.. 

 If they sound good, I'll surely order more for back-up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 -K


----------



## bronth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bigjim82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Welcome to Head-Fi and sorry about your wallet!

 If you would like to try a pair of cheap 408A's they can be had here (I see from your post you are in Europe, so this may not be helpful for you):

408A Tube [408A] - $1.49 : Piexx Company, Computers & Electronics

 As far as I know they are not matched pairs but the ones I got seem to work very well together. I ran through the volume from silent up past normal listening volume and could not hear an imbalance.

 I have the GE408A's running right now with a LT1364 opamp and think it sounds great with my MS2i's._

 

Thanks, bigjim82, I've checked this site out but shipping rates to Europe (about $18) are a bit too high, IMO. There's nothing extremely wrong with my wallet (considering the crisis) but the price/quality factor is my sacred rule. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Although, I realize - the best 408As available in most cases are Americans, so they couldn't compete with Mullards price-wise.


----------



## electropop

Heey! Very much enjoying these:

408A Tube [408A] - $5.49 : Piexx Company, Computers & Electronics

 After i ordered a set, they got a $5.49 -pricetag immediately. (I payed $1.49/tube). $18 shipping, but was worth it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I ordered four tubes. Since yesterday i've been matching them, and now have found a darn good sounding one! I hope the sound-signature remains close to this after burn-in. After 5hrs, they sound very dynamic/transparent. Not as close or sweet as WE408As, and lack a little soundstage compared. BUT the punch and detail they deliver is fantastic! Accurate but plentiful bass (WE's had not much to mention), while being tonally accurate. Best all-rounder so far in my collection (6J1's and WE408A's). They sound a little bright still, I'm hoping it would calm down a little in the treble section, while retaining it's detail.. This happened to the WE408A's, so why not here? Let's hope 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Cans that I tested them with were AD2000's and sr325i's. Still amazed by the dynamics and transparency these tubes delivered. So good sounding with AD2000's that i've started reconsidering a purchase of an SS-amp for them..
 Anyone else tried these yet? Would love to hear a reference by another headfier!
 I'd like to add, that there's little noticeable hiss, nothing that would dominate over the noise my graphics card makes though.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ok, back to burning these babies in. Roger out

 -K


----------



## chews89

Hey guys,

 This is a pretty noob question, but as much as we all love sound, is it possible to purchase tubes that emit different colour light? Or glow at different brightness levels? Because I'm sure you all love to see those tubes glow


----------



## TKvC-SainT

Yes, in fact I was quite surprised to see my Sylvania Gold 408A the first time. They glow around the same brightness as my former WE408A, but with a more redish color, while WE408A were more yellowish. So both orange, but one to the brighter side, and one to the darker.


----------



## bnuttz

So I had this crazy idea about fitting two single channel HDAMs in this thing with extension leads and the appropriate adapter of course. However, looking at this post:

The Zero MOD Thread - 24/192 DAC/H/Amp - Page 12 - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

 It appears that the base is the same size as the dual unit, which may be a problem. Anybody have any single channels they could try out, or have any thoughts?


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chews89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys,

 This is a pretty noob question, but as much as we all love sound, is it possible to purchase tubes that emit different colour light? Or glow at different brightness levels? Because I'm sure you all love to see those tubes glow 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 







 Back in the day we had these...


----------



## googan

I've been using the GE 408A as well as the stock 6JI for a while now. 

 The 408A is nice, seems to bring out more detail, focus is around the mids/uppermids. I find it lacking bass punch though. Are all 408As like this (Sylvanias, WE)? The 6JI is pronouncedly more bass-friendly. 

 Can anyone describe the sound signature of the Mullard EF92s?


----------



## electropop

I found the difference between GE- and WE408's to be quite the opposite of marginal. GE's do have plenty more of punch in the bass section, more apparent details and sound more transparent (though not short of SS-amps). Where it loses to the WE's is soundstage, dimensionality and forwardness. 

 I like the GE's best now, at least with my AD2000's. The Stock 6J1's are just too muffled. They have bass, but are unable to control it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 GE408's have punch, and are also more dynamic. Maybe having a lower noisefloor has something to do with this..

 Have yet to tried the sylvanias though..

 -K


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *electropop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I like the GE's best now, at least with my AD2000's. The Stock 6J1's are just too muffled. They have bass, but are unable to control it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 GE408's have punch, and are also more dynamic. Maybe having a lower noisefloor has something to do with this..

 Have yet to tried the sylvanias though..

 -K_

 

The Sylvania 408A's are amazing, I would say the WE 408A are not too shabby but the Sylvania is definitely in a league beyond the WE in both dynamics and soundstaging. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - DoA


----------



## electropop

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Sylvania 408A's are amazing, I would say the WE 408A are not too shabby but the Sylvania is definitely in a league beyond the WE in both dynamics and soundstaging. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - DoA_

 

Hmm.. But the AD2000's need bass and i recall someone saying that the sylvanias are slightly shy on that matter.. I don't really like the WE's after the GE's. They sound dull and lack punch. I guess these phones really need an ss-amp to drive them..:/
 Grado's are another story.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks anyway.. 

 -K


----------



## chews89

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 Back in the day we had these... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

daymn DOA..the LD II looks awesome! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I read that blue LEDs were actually built into the amp, i wonder why they ceased production of LEDs in tube sockets. I'd gladly pay another $10 or so for them to be installed. Unless they cost more, i have no idea..


----------



## kiljim

Any idea if these would be a reasonable upgrade? http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f44/2-...-cv131-391493/
 Looking for cheap options just to try out first


----------



## HeatFan12

I personally love those EF92s...I think it's a great buy....


----------



## kiljim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kiljim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any idea if these would be a reasonable upgrade? http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f44/2-...-cv131-391493/
 Looking for cheap options just to try out first 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ah forget that, sold too quickly


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Give these a try. I think they're the best value in LD upgrades. Speaking from personal experience it's worth it to get your tubes in matched pairs from trusted sellers.

 - DoA


----------



## electropop

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Give these a try. I think they're the best value in LD upgrades. Speaking from personal experience it's worth it to get your tubes in matched pairs from trusted sellers.

 - DoA_

 

Can you describe their sound-signature, say, by comparing them to some 408's for example?
 And do you think yen is one of those trusted sellers? Don't have any experience..

 Thank you!

 -K


----------



## hottyson

*I just ordered some 408a tubes. They are on their way here. I have some other opamps but I don't have any LT1364 opamps.

 What other opamps work well that don't require an adapter?

 Does anyone have a spare LT1364 opamp they can send to me?*


----------



## hottyson

*WE 408a tubes arrived.
 Amp has already burned in over 100-hours but these tubes have just over 8-hours so far. Definitely sounds better than stock tubes right now.

 For how long should the WE 408a burn in?
*


----------



## cristox

I am also interested in the opamp rolling results achieved until now.


----------



## K3cT

Late to the party but right now I'm considering to get the LD I+ for my Denon D2000. 

 Will the 408A tubes make the Denon too dark? Based on this thread, the Sylvania seems to be the best choice for 408A but considering how rare it is, will the WE be a good choice as well?


----------



## hottyson

*I had almost written off the Little Dot I+ as another over-hyped flavor of the month buzz. I had it up for sale and then I pulled it on a whim deciding to order some tubes and take one last crack at it. I don’t want to get my hopes up just yet but the upgraded Little Dot I+ now plays very well with my Grado SR225! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I upgraded the tubes to Sylvania 408a and Western Electric 408a. ([size=xx-small]edit to clarify:[/size] I meant Sylvania Gold Brand 408A)
 Then I replaced the op-amp to a LT1364.

 OH…
 …MY...
 GOODNESS!!!

 I can’t believe my ears! This inexpensive little amp is sounding huge and excellent. I am letting all the new components burn-in before I report back with more detailed impressions. I have a feeling that this is going to be an amazing piece of equipment for the money!

“It is so choice. If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up.”

 A gigantic “Thank you” to those of you who experimented rolling op-amps and tubes with the Little Dot I+. Your opinions and advice towards combining the LT1364 and 408a tubes is spot on. 

 If you own the Little Dot I+ and you have not yet changed out the stock tubes and op-amp, do yourself a favor. Replace them NOW!
*


----------



## bigjim82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hottyson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*I had almost written off the Little Dot I+ as another over-hyped flavor of the month buzz. I had it up for sale and then I pulled it on a whim deciding to order some tubes and take one last crack at it. I don’t want to get my hopes up just yet but the upgraded Little Dot I+ now plays very well with my Grado SR225! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I upgraded the tubes to Sylvania 408a and Western Electric 408a.
 Then I replaced the op-amp to a LT1364.

 OH…
 …MY...
 GOODNESS!!!

 I can’t believe my ears! This inexpensive little amp is sounding huge and excellent. I am letting all the new components burn-in before I report back with more detailed impressions. I have a feeling that this is going to be an amazing piece of equipment for the money!

“It is so choice. If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up.”

 A gigantic “Thank you” to those of you who experimented rolling op-amps and tubes with the Little Dot I+. Your opinions and advice towards combining the LT1364 and 408a tubes is spot on. 

 If you own the Little Dot I+ and you have not yet changed out the stock tubes and op-amp, do yourself a favor. Replace them NOW!
*_

 


 I completely agree on the LT1364 and 408a combo. Great synergy.


----------



## taso89

I also agree on the combo, don't bother with the OPA627 there is nothing to be gained but more bass at the expense of everything else. Those who remember me, I was the first (at least on this thread) to try the LT1364 and posted my impressions which at the time were great. I left my opamps at my dorm so I won't be able to swap back to the LT1364 until late January


----------



## electropop

Heey! Where can i get LT1364's?

 Is it true that i can order two samples for free? I have a zero, that could use an upgrade 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks!

 -K


----------



## hottyson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *electropop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Heey! Where can i get LT1364's?_

 

*
 Just in case something went wrong with a tube, I ordered extra so that I wouldn't have to pay shipping for unforeseen problems. I will be selling off my extra Western Electric 408a and Sylvania 408a tubes after I do some more tube rolling. Look in the for sale forum in over the next week or two.

 I also ordered four extra LT1364 just because they were so cheap at $7 each. I will probably offer some of those up for sale too.*

 edit: I just put them up forsale (or trade for tubes)


----------



## hottyson

*I finished my listening of WE 408a and Sylvania 408a ([size=xx-small]edit to clarify[/size]: I meant Sylvania Gold Brand not Sylvania) vacuum tubes for the Grado SR225 headphone:

Tube rolling the LITTLE DOT I+ for use with the Grado SR225 headphone*


----------



## Morb

I can't seem to find any old mullard tubes.

 I did find these though.. are they any good?

eBay.be: CV4015 M8161 EF92 9D6 MULLARD QDD TUBE VALVE NOS E PAIR (object 220315579852 eindtijd 19-jan-09 15:01:28 CET)


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Morb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can't seem to find any old mullard tubes.

 I did find these though.. are they any good?

eBay.be: CV4015 M8161 EF92 9D6 MULLARD QDD TUBE VALVE NOS E PAIR (object 220315579852 eindtijd 19-jan-09 15:01:28 CET)_

 

You want to look for ones with the large Mullard shield, the small shield Mullard EF92's are not as good sounding. Happy New Year!

 - DoA


----------



## taso89

I thought about this earlier today.. Wouldn't sideways operation of the I+ be possible with an HDAM sitting in the opamp socket? Like if one were to rotate the I+ 90 degrees counter-clockwise so the volume knob is on top. Or would that put too much stress on the opamp socket?


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

Is the excite profit better than the low?


----------



## hottyson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So the 408a series seems to be the best tubes of all for this headphone amp? (davidzhezhe has them listed as his most expensive tube option)_

 

*Some people might find certain 408a tubes sound great with certain headphones. The Little Dot I+ with 408a won't beat some really expensive amplifiers but it does very well for the little money that it costs. For those looking for an inexpensive amplifier it may do the job well enough.*

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I currently have the stock tubes i bought from Davidzhezhe on eBay, and to say the least.. it's not THAT impressive so far. Granted, I'm still 'burning in' the tubes, but we'll see..._

 

*What headphone are you using with it?
 Is the op-amp still the one that comes stock with the Little Dot I+?

 The stock Little Dot I+ without any tube or op-amp upgrade sounds very good with my Sony MDR-CD780 and my Koss KSC75. After upgrading the tubes and op-amp the amp sounds better with my Grado SR225 but with the Koss KSC75 it lost it's magic.*

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If my tubes are the 6JI, do I have to change any jumper settings/gain settings for the 408a tubes?_

 

*The jumpers settings from the factory are good to go for the 408a but you still have to slide two internal switches. It is fairly simple to do and it is well documented in the manual. Follow the directions and you should be okay.*


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

What if the annual revolution ate the party?


----------



## 928GTS

Don't be so dead set on 408's much less a particular brand of them, there are a wide variety of tubes you can roll for this amp.


----------



## hottyson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yupyup, still the stock op-amp. I'm using the Grado RS-1 with it. Still recommend the Sylvania 408a? It's pretty expensive for a tube, or maybe i just didn't find the right place to buy it. How much was your set?_

 

*I don't know which tube you will like best. Different strokes for different folks.

 I don't recall exactly how much I paid but the Sylvania Gold Brand 408a were much more expensive than my Western Electric 408a. If I recall correctly, a pair of Sylvania Gold Brand 408a sell for around $90 plus shipping for BIN on eBay. However, if you find a bidding auction for the Sylvania Gold Brand 408a on eBay I think the bids start at half of that, something like $45 plus $8 shipping.

 I have some extra Sylvania Gold Brand 408a. I will put them up for sale in the for sale section just in case you or someone else are interested.*


----------



## 928GTS

You should need to pay $90 a pair for these tubes,you can find perfectly good pairs for $20-40. Some people are out to gouge and you've got to keep watch out for them.


----------



## cristox

I bought my matched pair sylvania gold brand 408a from trapper32 here on Head-Fi for MUCH less than 90$.
 Maybe you can send him a pm and/or search the sell/buy/trade forum for his offer...hope he is having some more sets.

 Edit: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f44/fs...ld-1-a-384131/


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

Did the massive hate really regret the war?


----------



## intoart

I am not much into spending a lot of money and time trying many different tubes. I would much rather take advantage of the knowledge and experience on this forum to buy the best tubes the first time.

 So, what are the best tubes to use with this amp and DT770 Pro 80s? (My top priorities are soundstage, tight bass, and a top-end that is more smooth than bright.)


----------



## electropop

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *intoart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am not much into spending a lot of money and time trying many different tubes. I would much rather take advantage of the knowledge and experience on this forum to buy the best tubes the first time.

 So, what are the best tubes to use with this amp and DT770 Pro 80s? (My top priorities are soundstage, tight bass, and a top-end that is more smooth than bright.)_

 

Well, if the sound characteristics i noticed changing on my sr325i's, AD2000's and HD25-1's when swapping tubes, should apply to your beyers as well, i'd recommend some of the 408-family. GE408A's are rather cheap: not much soundstage, good dynamics, highs prominent but smoother than in ss-amps, controlled bass but not so full, quite transparent for tubes. WE408A's gave an even smoother presentation that was flatter, more open and engaging but losing in dynamics and sparkle. Great soundstage. 
 6J1's after these sound muffled with plenty of bass (one note -bass) and everything else just seems laid back. 

 I'm getting sylvian 408's soon and they've been, at least here, hogging all the praise. I've got my hopes up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Some Russian military tubes should also sound rather good, not sure how though.

 -K


----------



## intoart

Can I tell anything about quality from price? Will a $50 pair of tubes sound better than a $10 pair?


----------



## HippieTom

Not if you dont like the sound sig....


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *928GTS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't be so dead set on 408's much less a particular brand of them, there are a wide variety of tubes you can roll for this amp._

 

I totally agree....Instead of swapping from Sylvania, GE, WE 408s etc., try some EF91, 92 and 95 and all their variants. There are so many different tubes you can roll with this amp, why just settle for one family?


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

Is the complete penalty better than the drunk?


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_because they are expensive! well, if i dont like these sylvania 408a that i purchased from some overstock guy, i'll try the other families._

 

Expensive? The most expensive tubes for this amp are the Sylvania Gold 408A, at the moment. When the sellers figured out they were good and everybody started buying them, their prices skyrocketed. Just like the 6SN7 tube did, now some of those prices are triple than any 408A. It just takes a little bit of research and patience.
 I have bought quads of EF91, 92 for $30.00. I have 2 amps that use the EF91 & 92, so buying quads pays off for me. On the same token, a couple of months ago I bought a lot of 25 6AK5, 5654, 6096 etc. for $25.00. The EF95 tube is not expensive at all, if you check periodically.
 After a bit of research, I settled for a pair of CBS Hytron 6AK5W for my SR 225s. It gives them that bit of warmth they needed. I bought that quad for $19.99.


----------



## 928GTS

Some tubes are just magically selected out for being "amazing",people raise the price to something outrageous and people follow thinking they're on to something. Buy cheap tubes and experiment,you might just stumble onto a magical combination.


----------



## intoart

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *928GTS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Some tubes are just magically selected out for being "amazing",people raise the price to something outrageous and people follow thinking they're on to something. Buy cheap tubes and experiment,you might just stumble onto a magical combination._

 

So you are saying that to buy (for example) three different $15 pairs would make more sense than buying one $45 pair?


----------



## electropop

This would be rational in your case, although the Sylvania golds might just be your thing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 But since many different "cheap" tube-branches sound even very different from each other, and some with certain setups really awesome, it's a better chance finding what you're looking for this way. Plus you'd have reference if you purchased, say, another pair of headphones in the future. ... Not saying you should.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But yes, this didn't come to my mind for some reason, when posting my last piece of aid. I thought you might want to go easy, but since it is rather simple swapping the tubes and comparing, you might actually grow fond of the thing (it is relatively easy with the LDI+) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Regards..


----------



## intoart

Maybe I will try going that route. This is going to be my first experience with anything that has tubes in it, so the concept of tube rolling seems a bit daunting. If it really does turn out to be easy, though, then it might be fun.

 If the I+ does not impress me, I may go back to my integrated or try a good SS amp. If I really like it, though, I will probably eventually upgrade within the LD line (the MKIV SE looks really nice), so I should still be able to use whatever tubes I have bought by then.


----------



## electropop

Exactly. I found the LD I+ to be a very nice upgrade for my Grados. Plus very cheap. My first experience with tubes also.
 Would've never thought swapping tubes could make such a difference, but i ate my words 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I also noted, that burn-in periods are really necessary to be able to characterize a tube's sound-signature. Most of them are "lively".

 My AD2000's are so calm, that they would need a proper SS-amp to drive them. (more dynamics and transparency). That will be ahead of me in near-future. The MKV is for high-impedance phones, so that unfortunately won't be an alternative for me..

 I haven''t heard much beyers, but after listening my grado's through basically any tubes, it's hard to move back to SS.. 

 Good luck in your adventure


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

What if the both debate ate the theory?


----------



## intoart

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *electropop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I haven''t heard much beyers, but after listening my grado's through basically any tubes, it's hard to move back to SS.. 

 Good luck in your adventure 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Thank you! I am getting really impatient for my I+ to arrive. My Beyers sound amazing already, so if it really is a significant upgrade, that is pretty exciting! (I will do my best to withold judgement until it has had some time to burn in. I am not inclined to do 8-hour burn in sessions, though. I am more likely to just listen and wait for any changes to happen in their own good time.)

 I will order some tubes. I really don't want to mess with jumpers, though, so I will probably stick to tubes that use the same configuration as the stock 6JIs (6AK5s and 403As, for example.)


----------



## cristox

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_1) Kind of a dumb question, but what happens if you have tubes of different types in each slot? 

 2) Also... would sound go through if you don't put any tubes in at all?

 3) Lastly, why does the 408A family have to have the jumpers be switched... would harm come if I decide to swap the 6FJI in without switching the jumpers/ it's kind of annoying to have to undo the chassis and switch jumpers everytime..._

 

There are no dumb questions, just dumb answers...

 1)
 If you stay within one tube familiy...

 (EF91 = 6AM6 = Z77 = 6F12 = 8D3 = N79 = CV138 = 6064 = M8083 = CV4014) or 
 (EF92 = 6CQ6 = W77 = 6F21 = 9D6 = CV131 = 6065 = M8161 = CV4015) or 
 (EF95 = 6AK5 = 6j1p = 6069 = 6F32V = 6F32 = 5654 = 6ZH1P = M8100= 403A [=408a {heads up, higher heater voltages}])

 ...then nothing harmful will happen. But you will hear the difference...

 If you mix them and one tube is driven below its specs, you would hear nothing or sound at lower volume on this channel.

 If you mix them and one tube is driven with too high heater voltage it will "burn".

 EF92 has a different pin-out to the other two.
 Mixing those may burn something somewhere.

 I dont know whats the effects of the other tube values on the amp or the tubes itself when mixing them though. Anyone?

 2)
 No

 3)
 The 408a has higher filament (heater) voltage than its sister, the EF95.

 408a: 20V, 50mA
 EF95: 6.3V, 175mA

 Swapping EF95 for 408a would not do harm.
 But swapping 408a for EF95 would overheat the EF95s filament, leading to burn the tube.

 If you need to lookup some tube values:
The National Valve Museum - Search Page
Antique Radios, Old Radios: 135 000, Radio Museum, Catalog


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

The passionate common arrives into the complex crack.


----------



## HippieTom

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cristox* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There are no dumb questions, just dumb answers..._

 

Hi cristox. 
 Do you know? I use M8100 and wondering.should i have changed the switches or leave it as it is. It stands like it was when i got it with the chinese tubes.


----------



## electropop

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *intoart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you! I am getting really impatient for my I+ to arrive. My Beyers sound amazing already, so if it really is a significant upgrade, that is pretty exciting! (I will do my best to withold judgement until it has had some time to burn in. I am not inclined to do 8-hour burn in sessions, though. I am more likely to just listen and wait for any changes to happen in their own good time.)

 I will order some tubes. I really don't want to mess with jumpers, though, so I will probably stick to tubes that use the same configuration as the stock 6JIs (6AK5s and 403As, for example.)_

 

Don't want to be annoying, but changing the jumpers is relatively easy, though bothersome to some, since you have to unscrew four bolts. After that you use your finger of choice, and *switch*. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 6JI's are bass heavy, don't have any other from that branch though..
 I'll be receiving my sylvania gold 408's and some voshtok tubes (ef92 something?) that were 10 dollars. I've read some good things on them and i will post impressions once i've had the time and chance to listen to them thoroughly. 

 Yay for cheap audio-enthusiastic tweaking!


----------



## cristox

double post


----------



## cristox

The LD1+ has 6JI as stock tubes (unless you ordered other tubes with the amp)
 6JI and M8100 are in the same family.
 So no jumper action necessary.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HippieTom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I use M8100 and wondering.should i have changed the switches or leave it as it is. It stands like it was when i got it with the chinese tubes._


----------



## Morb

I went from the standard 6J1's to Mullard 8100's ....
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
 I'm amazed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Didn't expected this lol, first tube experience here


----------



## HippieTom

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cristox* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The LD1+ has 6JI as stock tubes (unless you ordered other tubes with the amp)
 6JI and M8100 are in the same family.
 So no jumper action necessary._

 

Good. Thanks


----------



## cristox

I just recieved my LT1364-CN8 opamp and installed in place of the stock MC33078P opamp.
 Sounds better, more open and instruments can be better located.
 Highs are more transparent, base is more controlled.

 I am not the review guy but maybe im going to write some more about the LT1364 in the LD1+ in the near future.

 Edit: 

 Could the OP please change the thread title to "Little Dot I+ Tube and OpAmp Rolling".
 Just because the opamp is rollable too and it is realy simple and worth it doing so i think.


----------



## electropop

I want my hands on some LT1364s!!!


----------



## intoart

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cristox* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just recieved my LT1364-CN8 opamp and installed in place of the stock MC33078P opamp.
 Sounds better, more open and instruments can be better located.
 Highs are more transparent, base is more controlled.

 I am not the review guy but maybe im going to write some more about the LT1364 in the LD1+ in the near future.

 Edit: 

 Could the OP please change the thread title to "Little Dot I+ Tube and OpAmp Rolling".
 Just because the opamp is rollable too and it is realy simple and worth it doing so i think._

 


 I have no clue where to buy an opamp or how to swap them once I do (I have no skill with electronics.) Could you go into a bit more technical deyail about opamp rolling in general, maybe with some pictures? Thanks!

 Oh, and I have ordered some GE 6AK5s. I look forward to seeing if I really hear a difference.


----------



## electropop

I don't have any pictures, but it's basically a cap that you can remove using your fingers. Basically as easy as to swap a tube, you just need to remove the bottom plate of the amp. 

 Hmm.. I'm sure i saw pictures of an opened amp. Have you checked the manual about changing the jumpers for different tubes? Even figuring that out is more difficult.

 You can, from most places, order samples of opamps. Usually free of charge, if you fill out a form. This is what i heard, and i'm doing it now. Try Linear Technology for the LT1364. Mmm..

 Edit: Is it the dual or quad version of the amp i should use?

 2nd Edit: I found out that dual opamps work without an adapter. Thanks


----------



## hottyson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *intoart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have no clue where to buy an opamp_

 

*I bought LT1364 op-amps from Newark.com. If you find them in stock anywhere else under $10 then buy them from someone else. Newark is a really crappy company to buy from. However, they are the cheapest at the moment for the LT1364 at $7. 

 If you buy the LT1364, make sure that you get the DIP-8 version. The Newark part number is 57M3509.

 The stock op-amp that came with my Little Dot I+ was the bottleneck in the system. Once the op-amp was upgraded to the LT1364 I began appreciating the details of great sounding tubes. I almost threw the stock Chinese 6J1 tubes in the trash. After the op-amp upgrade the 6J1 tubes are still nowhere near the best sounding tubes, but they are now interesting enough to tube roll and compare against others.*


----------



## electropop

Interesting blue words hottyson. 

 I ordered from Linear Technology.

Linear Technology - Purchase Linear Products

 I'm not sure what the '#PBF' means, but as long as it's the 'CN8'-version, i should be ok, right?


----------



## bnuttz

You will be fine. PBF just means lead free.


----------



## electropop

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bnuttz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You will be fine. PBF just means lead free._

 

Right, pb stands for lead. Been a while since i studied chemistry 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks..


----------



## intoart

I just ordered a pair from Linear (a pair because the quantity defaulted to 2. Do I really need 2?)

 Now I just hope I am smart enough to put it (them?) in when they arrive!

 Total cost with shipping was $17. Not bad if it really is an upgrade!


----------



## electropop

Don't worry, you'll be fine! 

 You just need to find a similar shaped 'cap' and swap it. There should be some sort of an universal indicator as to which way it should be put in. If i can recall, it's a small alcove on either side. 
 I'm waiting mine too from Linear 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It is a dual opamp, from what i've understood, and it will fit the LD I+ design without any adapters or sorts.. You only need one. It will fit many apparatuses though, and i'll be using the second one on my Zero DAC perhaps..

 Hmm.. What kind of source are you using? Do you listen from your computer or do you pack a CD-player?

 -K


----------



## intoart

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *electropop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm.. What kind of source are you using? Do you listen from your computer or do you pack a CD-player?

 -K_

 


 My system is strictly for home use. CDs are all that I listen to, and I use my Cambridge Audio 340C CD player. Next month, I may upgrade by adding the Cambridge DAC magic. My D5000s are already ordered, and will arrive next week. Obviously, this is growing into one helluva system!


----------



## electropop

Already on the move, great! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The opamp as well as other parts of the chain ie. my zero, if not up to the task, might - even for the LD I+ - end up being bottlenecks. I'm very curious about testing the LD I+ with a higher end cdp for instance, and have been looking for one. My current favorite is the Consonance Orfeo. A very good sounding linear cd-player. (delivers the punch!) Just a tad expensive..
 At the moment I'm using the zero, fed via optical by a creative soundcard that's linked to foobar as an ASIO-device. My take on sources was rather, well, sceptic at first. Previously I was just using iTunes on an XP-platform. Decided, after hesitating so much because of the troublesomeness, to try foobar and run my soundcards via ASIO and the difference was really something. 
 Now i really want a standalone music center without the distractions a computer delivers..! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -K


----------



## intoart

I have never had any interest in music from a computer file, downloaded or otherwise. Maybe I am just too old fashioned to give up my shiny discs!
 In theory, lossless files can sound as good as CDs (with a good soundcard, of course), but there is still something unsatisfying about that route to me.

 My "completed" system will be Cambridge 340C>DAC Magic>LD I+ with LT1364 opamp and GE6AK5 tubes>Denon D5000s. Audio heaven! total price=$1350.


----------



## electropop

Ooh, I have the discs alright! I never download music unless i have to. Meaning that I justify it, if something can't be found anywhere 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 The problem now is funding and limited desktop space. I've even been tempted to set up a vinyl system. I listened to some great progressive music from the 70s (Gong - Gazeuse, i recall) and compared CD- and LP-masters and whoa did they sound different, the vinyl sounding in this case, tons better. The vinyl-mastering just requires so much more attention to technical details and what not. It's almost to be considered an art form 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Your system is looking quite nice, though I'm not a fan of Denons myself. I think you'll run into an urge to order a set of tubes specifically for the Denons. They have that treble energy and bass punch, so tubes in general do them good. From what I've tried at least. I'm quite sure my WE408as would do them justice! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Please post some impressions when you've had the chance to burn in some tubes and swap opamps! I'm waiting for my Sylvania golds as well as a pair of voshods quite eagerly.. Not to mention the lt1364s..

 Aargh, this is a sickness!


----------



## intoart

I won't know if I like the Denons until I get them, but all the reviews lead me to think that I will. For what I paid, I had _better_ like them!
 Tubes are pretty cheap, so I may try some different ones. My preference is to stay in the same configuration as the 6JIs, though, because I hate opening the unit to mess with jumpers and such!

 I really should be happy with my DT770s, since they sound absolutely awesome. I always have to wonder what _even better _would sound like, though. Just part of the disease, I guess!


----------



## electropop

Yeah. And even if something would in objective terms really sound better, you've gotten so used to the sound sig that it's almost impossible to change. You can call it 'falling in love'. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





http://casque.generationmp3.com/wp-c...tle_dot_I_.jpg

 You see the two switches on the left, nearest to the volume pot? It reads '408' and '6J1' between them. Those two set left means 6J1-family, both of them right means 408's.. That easy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you want to use EF92's, you need to put in jumpers, which are included in the package, to the places 4 o'clock from the switches between the blue/red 'transistors/capasitors? (not sure). The thing in the middle, between the two small green round things, is the opamp. Just pull it out, put the lt1364 in and have a listen. The two bottom screws on both sides of the amp (total 4) are pretty quick to remove.. Just saying, that don't be afraid to try some different tube-families, since it's really easy! I hesitated at first too, but here we are 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And I think the 6J1's and others in that family have been hogging the least praisal.. So just saying..

 -K


----------



## cristox

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *electropop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You see the two nubs on the left..._

 

He means "switches", ot "nubs".

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *electropop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you want to use EF92's, you need to put in caps..._

 

He means "jumper", not "caps".

 Please be more precise, because the unexperienced may not understand you.


----------



## electropop

I am sorry, my terminology sucks, and i was le tired.. No excuse though. Will edit post.
 But as far as I'm concerned, nub also stands for switch 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yes, but still, it's designed to be relatively simple for people taking their first leap into the tube world..


----------



## sciberpunkt

I'm looking for a source for the LT1364. While Linear Technology has the best deal on them, they want more than $25 for basic shipping to my address. I found a seller on eBay that has them for $12.95/each and $5 to ship:

eBay Item 110333253654






 This appears to be the version that the LDI+ needs but I would appreciate some confirmation before I buy since I'm a noob. Thanks.


----------



## electropop

I haven't seen one, but I'd assume that's the correct version. CN8 is right..


----------



## intoart

My 6AK5s arrived Saturday. Two are RCA and the rest are Sylvania. I heard no difference between those brands, but the difference from the stock Chinese 6JIs was quite a bit greater than I was prepared to expect! The amp sounded so good already that I was skeptical about further improvement, and quite pleasantly surprised. I hope that the new op amp turns out to be an equally significant step up. (By the way, who decided that the Linear Technology chip was was the best choice, and what was that decision based on?)

 I won't say that the soundstage is larger _per se_ through the 6AK5s, but sound near the outer limits is louder (relative to the center) than before, which makes it seem more compelling. Bas now extends even deeper with no loss of tightness. Midrange is fuller and richer, and I think that I now understand what is meant by "tube warmth". Treble remains detailed, but with less sibilance/brightness.

 With the new tubes, my DT770s now sound so good that I hope the D5000s really do turn out to be a major upgrade. It is getting more and more difficult to imagine how there could be room for even more improvement!

 One oddity: when I first installed them, the right tube glowed more brightly than the left. I think the right channel may have been just slightly louder as well (though this could easily be my imagination or a quirk of my hearing.) I swapped the tubes, and now they look (and sound?) more "even". Has anybody else had an experience like that, or am I just nuts?


----------



## electropop

I think the LT1364 just received so much hype on the Zero thread, that it's been declared sort of a good all-rounder in the diy/head-fi community.. There hasn't been as much op-rolling for the LDI+ so it might not be the best.. But many seem to dig them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Where did you order your tubes? This is a common issue, if your tubes are not matched. Usually people here recommend ordering from trusted tube-sellers. 
 When i ordered the GE408s, i ordered two pairs and luckily found a good match. (They were 1,49usd a piece) Another thing concerning the volume balance is the volume-pot. With this price, it's not the best one and i hear imbalance, but only when listening with very low volume. 
 But no, you're not nuts.. 

 Did I understand that you have two pairs of 6AK5's but from different brands?


----------



## intoart

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *electropop* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did I understand that you have two pairs of 6AK5's but from different brands?_

 


 I started a thread earlier about the meaning of "matched pairs". In it, I was advised that matching is not important with this particular amp. For that reason, when I saw 7 tubes for a good price, I bought them instead of spending more for matched pairs. The box contained four Sylvanias, two RCAs, and one stray GE (all 6AK5s.) If I try the 408As, will I get better sound by paying a bit more to get a matched pair?


----------



## electropop

I don't what that was all about, since i hear the difference clearly. Some seemed to ridicule the matter since the amp is so cheap.. 

 Good thing that you have four of the same kind then. You should try different pairings and find the best match. Up to you, but I'd get totally schizo if i couldn't listen to an even set 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Not exactly a matter of sound quality, just balance. Although some are extremely critical of the tubes and run them through testers and what not.. Meh, that does it for me


----------



## intoart

My new op amp arrived last night. I am afraid I heard no improvement whatsoever over stock. In fact, the only difference I detected at all was a slight tube hum with no music playing that I did not notice before (I suppose this implies that it is more revealing, but this did not make any obvious difference when listening to music.)

 I did experiment a bit with the four Sylvania tubes and found two that seem like a match.


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 20, 2018)

i'm really not liking the 408a sylvania gold


----------



## intoart

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so what exactly does differing tubes do other than change frequency charts?

 do they increase soundstage/headstage etc? i'm really not liking the 408a sylvania gold_

 

My Sylvanias are a definite improvement over the cheap Chinese stock tubes (better soundstage, fuller midrange, more extended bass.) I do not know how they compare with other good quality tubes.

 I am surprised that you do not like your gold 408s. I have not heard them, but they have a reputation as one of the best choices with this particular amp. Maybe the sound signature has poor synergy with your headphones?

 (By the way, are soundstage and headstage synonyms, or do they mean different things? I doubt that I would recognize a difference!)


----------



## electropop

Just swapped in my lt1364. Can't really say there's much difference except in the detail maybe. 
 My two sets of tubes are waiting in the post office.. I'm really anticipating more of an improvement with them..


----------



## intoart

My D5000s arrived! They sound excellent with the I+ and 6AK5s. I will still try 408As with them at some point, though, just to see if I can detect a difference.


----------



## oldskoolboarder

I've tried the LD I+ with 480A's (thanks nauxolo) on my Beyer DT770-250's and my super.fi 5EB's. 

 For the DT770's, I actually prefer my Rotel 1070 output better. Wider soundstage and the bass is a bit more prominent. The source here was a Ah! Njoe tube CD player.

 I'm at work now and the superfi's probably aren't the best match. I don't see much added from the LD I+ vs my iPod 5.5G headphone output. Can't say if that's more of a headphone issue.

 I'll do more testing when my Grado 325i's arrive.


----------



## Shoreman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldskoolboarder* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll do more testing when my Grado 325i's arrive._

 

As an aside, let us know whether they're gold, or the "new" silver edition.


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

Is the list base better than the factor?


----------



## oldskoolboarder

I also notice a lot of white noise on the LD I+ when my source is off and I'm using my superfi's. Is this expected?

 I don't notice this on my other tube amp.


----------



## hottyson

*Too often, people describe their experiences with an EF95, 408A, 6AK5, ... etc... in their Little Dot I+, without clearly giving the exact tube model that is being discussed. I have "Sylvania" tubes and then I have a "Sylvania Gold Brand" tubes. My Sylvania Gold Brand tubes have "Gold Brand" printed directly on the tube. "Gold Brand" is also printed directly on the box that they came in. Even the number on the tube is not simply "408A" but "GB-408A." Even though they both have the name Sylvania in the name, they could not be more different. They are completely different tubes with completely different sound characteristics. I made the mistake of not making a clear distinction in some of my early posts. I may have confused some readers. I shall try to be more clear on exactly which tube I am speaking of. What makes some posts doubly unclear is when it is unknown if the poster is sharing impressions based on using the stock or upgraded op-amp.

 Also, are some using cheap CD-players with cheap interconnects as their source? I cannot hear as many distinctions when tube rolling with an average quality source. Many audible differences become apparent with a high-end CD-player or high-end DAC, that would normally be not too evident when played from an average consumer device as source.

 I have purchased over $400 worth of tubes for this inexpensive amp. I have been (and continue) listening to the Little Dot I+ with many different tubes. It is a very long process that it is solidifying my confidence in my choices of tubes. So far, the Sylvania Gold Brand 408A (GB-408A) has proven to be in a league above anything else I have tried. I would have a difficult time believing that anyone could not find the Sylvania Gold Brand 408A sound extremely good when paired with the LT1364 op-amp and using a high-end source. Some of the comments that I have read in this thread make me begin to wonder just what exactly are people using as the rest of their setup. Or worse yet, perhaps some are claiming to have Sylvania Gold Brand tubes when in fact they are actuality not. I hope that readers of this post will closely inspect their Sylvania Gold Brand 408A tubes to be certain that they are genuine.*


----------



## LeftyGorilla

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hottyson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_* Some of the comments that I have read in this thread make me begin to wonder just what exactly are people using as the rest of their setup.*



_

 

Well, we all do the best with what we have. I imagine that the target audience for a $100 amp is not going to be the most sophisticated or financially solvent. And I include myself in those categories for sure. But as a starter amp, I think it must be really designed to cultivate some audiophilia as it allows total newbs to start swapping out op amps and experimenting with various tube families. What could be finer?


----------



## hottyson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeftyGorilla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I imagine that the target audience for a $100 amp is not going to be the most sophisticated or financially solvent._

 

*I had not thought of it that way. I had forgotten that most people buying the Little Dot I+ are probably trying to maintain a low budget. My approach has been from a different angle. My goal is to obtain very high-end sound mating the Little Dot I+ along with next price level audio equipment. The combination has worked for me. But you are right, I completely left out the majority of the target audience for this amp. I should have thought my comment through before posting it.

 Still, I wonder if some have mistaken their tubes as Sylvania Gold Brand tubes for genuine when they may have not been.*


----------



## LeftyGorilla

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hottyson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*
 Still, I wonder if some have mistaken their tubes as Sylvania Gold Brand tubes for genuine when they may have not been.*_

 

I know some people have gotten taken for a ride on tube prices. Just reading some of the posts here...don't know to laugh or cry. There isn't such a big market for these things and you can tell certain ebay sellers are reading these threads and pricing according to which tubes are getting good reviews.

 Well, I've got some tubes in the mail, waiting to see if I got taken...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...seriously, my 3-yr-old thinks it's the coolest thing in the world I'm getting email from the Count.


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

What if the belligerent reflection ate the single?


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Anyway, I think I'm going into the realm of solid state so I don't have to spend 400 dollars in tubes trying to maximize a 100 dollar headphone amp. Either that, or just go for a tried and tested Woo Audio 6_

 

A SS amp might be cheaper.....Last time I looked a Woo 6 was $585 with premium parts adding another $360, attenuator upgrade $215, and the premium tube $150 . Would be a real outlay of cash especially if you couldn't hear the difference between it and the zero...


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

What if the erratic calendar ate the feedback?


----------



## intoart

A matched pair of Tung Sol 408As are available on ebay. They are however, _damned_ expensive ($68+shipping)! Are they really that good? (I am currently running Westinghouse 408As.)


----------



## bronth

Just some thoughts on my current configuration.

 The best I've got yet is EF92 Mullards + Burr-Brown OPA2107. This opamp added resolution AND some kind of smoothness at the same time. One of my test CDs is the latest Nightwish (I'm not a fan, actually, I just like it as a nice product). It's a rather detailed and relatively rich contemporary metal recording that was sounding harsh with stock tubes/opamp. Now it sounds OK.

 The whole sound signature has changed, so it's a "different LD I+" now. In some aspects the old one was more fun, especially considering so called "liquidity". Now LD sounds rather like a bit more relaxed SS amp. But it works well with all my phones and especially well with Shure E2C (I know - some people just couldn't find the correct fitting for them and finally gave up, but these babies are FANTASTIC; they easily can put you in the epicenter of music).

 Recently I also decided to buy Russian 6Zh1P-EV, highly regarded here. I got a matched quad from Ukraine very quickly. I assume, they are not over-hyped tubes, but they simply DON'T do anything with my OPA. No sinergy at all! Moreover, this combination produces VERY fatiguing sound, despite the fact that OPA2107 is regarded as "laid-back" and a bit "tubey" and 6Zh1P-EV are more "liquid" than Mullards. Also, theoretically, they must provide more bass punch BUT with this particular OPA they hardly provide ANY mid-bass at all. Very sad, because I like how these tubes do some vocals. 

 Hope, later I'll try these Russians with the stock opamp, I suppose, the "fun factor" of original configuration could be back, with some advantages. So, let it be another "tuning option". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But be careful with your expenses: sometimes good separate ingredients don't guarantee good taste. And upgrade becomes "nowheregrade". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 _______________________
 Andrei


----------



## intoart

I guess I will find out for myself if the Tung Sols are worth it or not, since I ordered a pair today. $77 shipped is a heck of a lot of dough for a pair of tubes, though!


----------



## LeftyGorilla

could someone please provide the instructions for jumpers and switch settings?

 I'm swapping in some GB4082s and don't have it on hand and this does not look as familiar as I remembered it...

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cristox* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Copy and paste from the LittleDot l+ reference guide pdf.


 To use WE408A tubes:
 1. K1 and K2 set to the side of the “WE408A” text
 2. Make sure the jumper caps are removed from J1 and J2 (open circuit)

 To use 6JI, 6AK5, 5654, WE403A/B, etc:
 1. K1 and K2 set to the side of the “6JI” text
 2. Make sure the jumper caps are removed from J1 and J2 (open circuit)

 To use EF91, EF92, CV131, CV138, etc:
 1. K1 and K2 set to the side of the “6JI” text
 2. Make sure the jumpers caps are in place over both J1 and J2 (short circuit)_


----------



## hottyson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeftyGorilla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_could someone please provide the instructions for jumpers and switch settings?

 I'm swapping in some GB4082s and don't have it on hand and this does not look as familiar as I remembered it..._

 

*Click on the attachment.
 I scanned it from my manual.*


----------



## Kid Bro Sweets

hi newbie question here but on my amp one of the tubes is lit up brighter than the other is this normal or just because they are the cheaper stock ones?


----------



## Sw33t.Shuga.Ray

Question:
 how do I remove the opamp?
 FWIR its a bottleneck for the SQ.
 do I just use chip pullers or a mini flatdriver?
 still waiting for my ld+1 though...wanna be prepared


 ===just ordered lt1364cn8 from newark
 tnx in advance


----------



## oldskoolboarder

A chip puller would be good but it has to be VERY thin. The DIP socket is wedged between 2 other components. I didn't have one at home so I bent a paper clip and wedge it slowly on both sides.

 Careful though, I slightly bent one of the leads and they don't like to bend a lot.


----------



## Sw33t.Shuga.Ray

^^^thanks for the info. I have a bios chip pulller for a pc motherboard...I hope that is the best I can use
 does the orientation of the op-amp that important? re:letters facing up/down
 I bet that op amp is stiffly wedged in...


----------



## LeftyGorilla

I tried my fingers first and ended up using a wire strippers. leads got bent out a bit, but wow, big difference going to the 1364 and I'm not going back to stock op amp for any reason. 

 Orientation of op amp is apparently important...


----------



## oldskoolboarder

Yes, orientation is very important. The pins can't be rotated around.


----------



## Sw33t.Shuga.Ray

great...thanks for the heads up guys I hope to enjoy this pretty soon


----------



## dantztiludrop

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sw33t.Shuga.Ray* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_does the orientation of the op-amp that important?_

 

Yes, it's important. Make sure that little half moon indentation is facing the front of the unit like it is there in the pic.


----------



## intoart

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kid Bro Sweets* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi newbie question here but on my amp one of the tubes is lit up brighter than the other is this normal or just because they are the cheaper stock ones?_

 

That happens with every pair of tubes I have tried (matched pairs included.) It does not effect the sound, that I have noticed. All tubes are slightly different from each other.


----------



## intoart

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeftyGorilla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I tried my fingers first and ended up using a wire strippers. leads got bent out a bit, but wow, big difference going to the 1364 and I'm not going back to stock op amp for any reason. 

 Orientation of op amp is apparently important..._

 

Interesting that you heard a big difference. I heard a slight difference, but only _very_ slight.


----------



## LeftyGorilla

Well, there were other factors as well.

 I had been using the stock op amp with some EF92 family tubes and listening with a burned-in MS2i. Then I sold the MS2i and it was about 2 weeks before I listened to it again, this time with the op amp 1364, WE408A tubes through a brand new pair of K271. So...uh, yeah, I should pop that stock op amp back in once I get used to this sound signature. But it really sounds great right now, so I'm in no rush.


----------



## Sw33t.Shuga.Ray

thats alot ...
 1.op amp 
 2.headphones
 3.tubes
 roll the dice?


----------



## LeftyGorilla

4. also upgraded to a Blue Jeans Cable IC (approx 10% of my overall system setup)

 Given the pissing contest going on in the cables forum, this might be important...but overall, yes, it sounds like a different amp, even if all amps do sound the same.


----------



## 928GTS

I really like the BJC I have,it didn't cost me an arm and a leg and it did make a pretty good improvement.


----------



## Bullseye

If you want to know what the specs of the stock op-amp here it is:

http://docs-europe.electrocomponents...6b80608712.pdf

 And the popular LT1364:

http://docs-europe.electrocomponents...6b805aa9ec.pdf


----------



## intoart

Well, it is official. I am going back to my Cambridge 340A full-time and selling the I+.
 It is all about synergy. The I+ was a big srep up when I was using 80 Ohm DT770s, but the integrated amp sounds better with my 250 Ohm DT150s.
 More than just Ohms are involved, though. The DT150s have several characteristics typically associated with tubes on their own (including warmth, fluid musicality, and huge soundstage.) The somewhat analytical clarity and detail of the SS amp compliments these characteristics well.

 I suppose it might be worth keeping the I+ in case I change phones again eventually.


----------



## Bullseye

Your call pal, but for me it will be my first one-and-only home amp.
 So i will only have the Fiio E3 & E5 to compare too. (Those two being SS)

 Lets hope the synergy is good with my grados


----------



## intoart

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bullseye* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your call pal, but for me it will be my first one-and-only home amp.
 So i will only have the Fiio E3 & E5 to compare too. (Those two being SS)

 Lets hope the synergy is good with my grados_

 

I have read that I+ does have excellent synergy with Grados. You should be golden!
 It came as a major surprise to discover that I prefer my Cambridge with DT150s, since I quite definitely preferred the I+ with DT770s. (Of course, that could have been placebo effect caused by that "new car smell".)


----------



## LeftyGorilla

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *intoart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, it is official. I am going back to my Cambridge 340A full-time and selling the I+.
 It is all about synergy. The I+ was a big srep up when I was using 80 Ohm DT770s, but the integrated amp sounds better with my 250 Ohm DT150s.
 More than just Ohms are involved, though. The DT150s have several characteristics typically associated with tubes on their own (including warmth, fluid musicality, and huge soundstage.) The somewhat analytical clarity and detail of the SS amp compliments these characteristics well.

 I suppose it might be worth keeping the I+ in case I change phones again eventually._

 

You might keep it long enough to get everything burned in...new op amp and all...Otherwise, it was an expensive little adventure and you never reached your destination. Not saying it is the right amp for you, but you should at least let it settle down a bit. You've got how many hours on it the past 4 weeks?


----------



## intoart

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeftyGorilla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You might keep it long enough to get everything burned in...new op amp and all...Otherwise, it was an expensive little adventure and you never reached your destination. Not saying it is the right amp for you, but you should at least let it settle down a bit. You've got how many hours on it the past 4 weeks?_

 

Not that many, but I definitely prefer the Cambridge with these particular phones. What makes it a good match (as I mentioned) is extreme clarity and detail. I+ has many other good properties, but not those.


----------



## bronth

*intoart,*

 I have several cans (and still want some more) and LD I+ could not do its best with all of them. With particular cans and recordings I prefer more straightforward/narrow/fair SS output of my soundcard or (rarely) old Pioneer receiver. But it's so called sinergy that stops me from any 'final' conclusions (I was also thinking "Am I right? Was this tube beast all that necessary?"). Sinergy includes cans, amp (with sinergetic tubes/op - but don't rely on rolling more than on music itself, it's crisis, after all) AND music. So, you could relax and just consider LD I+ additional filter/saturator/current amplifier with somewhat naughty 'old school' character.


----------



## QRanc

I'm having trouble finding the Sylvainia Gold 408A tubes. What's is a decent option?
 -Western Electric 408A
 -Tung Sol 408A
 -Westinghouse 408A
 -Philips ECG JAN 408A
 Any thoughts?


----------



## Myriad

I've got a LD I+ on order atm and I've got a couple questions.

 First I've got the LT1364 in the amp section of my Zero, can I just pop it out and put in the LD?

 Second I'm also having problems finding the Sylvania GB-408A tubes, are there any other places to look besides eBay or the FS forums here?


----------



## DGNeo

Just got this amp in earlier today, and I absolutely love it. I also ordered a LT1364 opamp. How easy is it to roll opamps? Does it just pop out, or what? Also have a pair of Mullard 8100 6AK5W Tubes on the way.

 EDIT: Also just purchased some matched M8161 Mullards from Yens. Large Shield I'm guessing just by looking at the other pictures of Mullard tubes. I REALLY need to stop spending money ;_;


----------



## Sw33t.Shuga.Ray

hey I see you have it paired with the sr80s...me too..so far Im liking it too with upgraded opamp lt1364 and GB 408a..awesome I say this coz I have the Corda Arietta and both of them are great and not clearly better than the other xxxedit (on my HPs atleast)xxxx.(except the ld gets really hot while the arietta runs cool)
 Opamps are easy just use some kind of pointed tweezor or long nose pliers...make sure the indented side faces towards the front. you might have to gently bend the pins of the new opamp for it to fit


----------



## Bullseye

Hey guys

 Just received my amp a few minutes ago, like DGNeo. It has been running around 5minutes now, and i have not heared any difference. 

 I am using it as Cowon D2 + LD I+ with 6J1 tubes + Grado sr225. I have not heared any difference so far. The "warmness" of sound so many people talk about i do not know what it means. So far I am really enjoying it though. I will keep uploading some impressions.

 The led color i chose is light orange. I will upload some picts some day.

 Oh and Sw33t.shuga, i am interested in how the Arietta sounds. I was about to buy that one, when I found this LD I+ amp, hybrid so i could try tubes, and cheaper than that one.

 For now I will keep using the stock tubes.


----------



## Sw33t.Shuga.Ray

Bullseye,
 You definitely NEED to change those tubes. You will not appreciate the ld+1 with those stock tubes. As for the Arietta---its a very robust amp (build and sound). The highs and mids have that Meier signature people have been talking about (I have the Headsix but xxxnvmxxx). It has this airy quality (both tested with AD700 and sr80). I was going to say it sounds like what an SS should sound but my ears lack experience with SS desktops+tubes. I cant say what sounds better yet as I just got the Arietta but Im very excited to have it. As for the LD+1 - its a great bargain for the sound I get with the upgraded Opamp and gold brand 408as. (from not so good its now short of greatness)


----------



## chews89

Ok guys, I've had my LDI+ for a few months now but have not thought about getting new tubes. So here's your chance to convince me to do so!

 Just some information: My primary phone that i use are my DT770 05' edition which are 250 ohms. I listen to jazz,indie rock and classical.

 Will rolling tubes make a difference in sound quality? If so, how much difference? I'm looking for a drastic change from the sound with stock tubes. However I'm not prepared to spend much on the tubes, the lesser the better. Plus it has to be available on ebay or somewhere that ships to Australia.

 Cheers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Edit: Ohyeah, to be honest I did not hear a big improvement with the LDI+ :/ and was kind of unsatisfied and dissapointed when i first got it, but somehow I've become used to the little amp


----------



## DGNeo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bullseye* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys

 Just received my amp a few minutes ago, like DGNeo. It has been running around 5minutes now, and i have not heared any difference. 

 I am using it as Cowon D2 + LD I+ with 6J1 tubes + Grado sr225. I have not heared any difference so far. The "warmness" of sound so many people talk about i do not know what it means. So far I am really enjoying it though. I will keep uploading some impressions.

 The led color i chose is light orange. I will upload some picts some day.

 Oh and Sw33t.shuga, i am interested in how the Arietta sounds. I was about to buy that one, when I found this LD I+ amp, hybrid so i could try tubes, and cheaper than that one.

 For now I will keep using the stock tubes._

 

Also, 5 minutes is no where near enough time for the tubes to sound good at all. You'll need to let it burn in for at least a few hours. At first I didn't notice a difference with my LDI+, but after about 2 to 3 hours only, I started to notice subtle differences.


----------



## Sw33t.Shuga.Ray

chews > ld+1 (fwir) is good with low impendance HPs. the cost of better tubes might not be logical for the minimal (for hi impendance) improvement. maybe get a more compatible amp? just my 02cents btw- I also share your initial thoughts on the ld+1 (unimpressed)


----------



## chews89

Well i initially got the LDI+ for my audio technicas and due to it's low price. But i love the sound of my DT770s over my AD500s. 

 I guess I'll save up for another amp but that probably won't be for a while(maybe 6 months or so), that's why i was thinking about a cheaper alternative in the meantime - rolling tubes


----------



## DGNeo

Also have a OPA2107AP opamp on the way now. After reading the LD forums, this seems to be on par, if not better than the LT1364.

 So currently waiting for:
 M8100 Mullards x2
 M8161 Mullards x2 (Large Shields)
 LT1364 opamp
 OPA2107AP opamp
 StarQuad Interconnects
 KECES DA-151 DAC
 Grado Bowls

 Going to be a good week


----------



## Bullseye

4 hours and 30 minutes later (non stop) i am getting used to the sound. Still too early to make a conclusion.


----------



## LeftyGorilla

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chews89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok guys, I've had my LDI+ for a few months now but have not thought about getting new tubes. So here's your chance to convince me to do so!_

 

I want to congratulate you on letting the thing burn in and getting used to 1 sound signature before changing everything around!

 What tubes did you get with the amp originally?

 I'll send you a matched pair of Mullard M8161 (EF92 family) (small shield) for the cost of shipping if you would like to try them. I picked up a quad of the Mullards and now I've got 5 pair of tubes on hand, most of them not even put in the amp yet.


----------



## chews89

Wow LeftyGorilla, that's a mighty generous offer from you there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The tubes I got with my amp are the stock 6JI ones.

 I'll pm you


----------



## intoart

Shortly after switching back to my SS integrated amp, my Tung Sol 408As arrived. Last night, out of curiousity, I tried them in the I+. They made all the difference. They have the detail that was missing with other tubes (and which caused me to prefer SS), while retaining the large soundstage and general smoothness of tubes. My decision has now been reversed, and I prefer the I+ again.
 (I need to order a back-up set of Tung Sols at some point.)


----------



## Sw33t.Shuga.Ray

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeftyGorilla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_xxxx

 I'll send you a matched pair of Mullard M8161 (EF92 family) (small shield) for the cost of shipping if you would like to try them. I picked up a quad of the Mullards and now I've got 5 pair of tubes on hand, most of them not even put in the amp yet._

 

PM me also I want to try mullards...if you have any extra left
 Ill paypal you
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *intoart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Shortly after switching back to my SS integrated amp, my Tung Sol 408As arrived. Last night, out of curiousity, I tried them in the I+. They made all the difference. They have the detail that was missing with other tubes (and whiched caused me to prefer SS), while retaining the large soundstage and general smoothness of tubes. My decision has now been reversed, and I prefer the I+ again.
 (I need to order a back-up set of Tung Sols at some point.)_

 

Tunsols are expensive...how much you get them for?


----------



## intoart

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sw33t.Shuga.Ray* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tunsols are expensive...how much you get them for?_

 

_Damned_ expensive, actually! $68+$9 shipping.


----------



## Sw33t.Shuga.Ray

^^^what tube did you switch from? and have you actually tried mullards? thanks!


----------



## intoart

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sw33t.Shuga.Ray* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^^^what tube did you switch from? and have you actually tried mullards? thanks!_

 

I switched from Westinghouse 408As (and before that I had tried some RCA 6AK5s.)
 I have not tried Mullards. The Tung Sols are my first "high performance" tubes. Convincing me to use the I+ again, in light of how much I enjoyed my SS amp, makes them quite impressive!


----------



## Sw33t.Shuga.Ray

^^^whats the sound signature like? GB408a sounds somewhat wet
 edit
 +also > not that its bad but it did improve overall (from stock it unveiled the mids highs) / maybe its that tube sound?


----------



## intoart

The Tung Sols have the least "tubelike" sound of the tubes I have heard so far. They have the sharply defined detail and pinpoint imaging that I associate with SS. On the other hand, they have the big soundstage and smooth midrange of tubes. Truly the best of both worlds.


----------



## cristox

I promised to write something about swapping the stock opamp to LT1364.

 Linear Technologies asked no questions as i ordered two samples of their LT1364 for "scientific reasons".
 Two weeks later they arrived in Germany. LT sent it first to their german dependancy and they sent it to me. 
 Right after the postman left i ran upstairs with great expectations, flipped the LD1+ open, tweezered out the stock opamp and put in the new LT1364.
 The surgery took only 5 minutes beeing very careful.

 I turned the LD1+ on and ... nothing remarkable happened (at first "sight").
 The sound was as great as in the weeks before.

 But after carefully listening to songs i have listend very often in the past days through the LD1+ i found that there was an effect.
 Complex recordings like Dream Theaters albums sounded even more complex.
 It was easier to concentrate on the different levels of the recording.
 Each Instrument was easier to locate and to differentiate from the others.
 Simpler productions like Michael Jacksons albums, Erykah Badu's Baduizm sounded more powerful and thrilling in every single note. The singers voices showed more facettes and the voices sounded more real like the singer beeing right in front of me.

 All in all everything sounds more real like in "more like the original instrument" (count voices as intruments...)
 Everything sound more under control.

 It is an very noticable effect, when you know your music and have heard it through the LD1+ al lot before opamp swapping.

 The difference that the new opamp makes does not change the sound of the LD1+ very much. You wont get an "other" headphone amp with that.

 Think of it as you never noticed you do need glasses until a routine visit to the ophthalmologist. When you got your glasses you are like "wow, my sight was not so bad before but now i could slap myself for not going to the doctor earlier".

 I ended up re-hearing my whole music collection AGAIN.
 The first time i did it was when i got my LD1+.
 Second time was after swapping M8161 for Sylvania gold 408a.

 I have not heard a headamp before i got my LD1+ but i am very happy with the current setup. I had my Alessandro MS1 plugged to a Denon PMA-700z (great poweramp...) for almost a year and even without having a comparison it sounded and "felt" like that there has to be more to get out of the MS1. I think my setup is the best (for me..) compromise between price and value. 
 A hundred dollars for each part (alienDAC, LD1+, MS1 and accessories like tubes, cables) was my best investment in fun stuff for a long time.

 The LD1+ is fun.
 Even more fun when you swap tubes and opamp which is fun for itself.


----------



## Baird GoW

havent read entire post thread yet but here are my questions:
 1. To remove tubes do you literally pull strait up or must you do something first?
 2. To Replace the OpAmp what do i have to do? Take tubes out, unscrew all 4 front and all 4 back screws and pull front forward?
 3. Can you replace it with ANY OpAmp?


----------



## intoart

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Baird GoW* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_havent read entire post thread yet but here are my questions:
 1. To remove tubes do you literally pull strait up or must you do something first?
 2. To Replace the OpAmp what do i have to do? Take tubes out, unscrew all 4 front and all 4 back screws and pull front forward?
 3. Can you replace it with ANY OpAmp?_

 

1. You need to wiggle the tubes around (gently!) in very small circles as you pull, hence "rolling".
 2. Taking the tubes out is a good precaution, but not required. Unscrew the two lower screws on the front and back only, not all four, then remove the bottom plate. The OpAmp can be removed with fingers, but tweezers make it easier. There is a little round notch in the OpAmp, make sure this faces in the same direction when you replace it. Be sure to get the tips of all the "legs" started in their respective grooves before pressing down, or they may bend (I learned this the hard way!)
 3. I believe any OpAmp will work, but some are more effective than others. (The Linear Technology one recommended here seems to be the most popular choice. It gave me a bit of extra "refinement", but was not by any means a spectacular difference.)


----------



## cristox

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Baird GoW* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_3. Can you replace it with ANY OpAmp?_

 

You need a dual opamp.
 Single opamps will work, too, but you will need two of them and a adapter.
 I dont know about other specifications. I just followed the recommendations regarding wich opamp will fit here.


----------



## Baird GoW

thanks alot


----------



## TKvC-SainT

I´m sitting here listening to my HD650s which arrived today (for the second time), which are the latest version with the silver screen. I also got my LT1364 today, the reason why this is my second listening session. First time was with the OPA2107, this second time with the all new LT1364. The tubes I have are the popular Sylvania Gold 408As, which should be well burnt in.

 Well I´m not good at all putting words to what I´m hearing, but I´ll give it a shot, also this is from memory because I had about a 2h break between the tests, also there could be differences in volume which also could explain certain differences.

 I think the sound has gotten generally clearer. I feel that this is because the high bass/low mids seems a bit tuned down. Though the bass now seems as it extends deeper. So the lower regions seem overall clearer/cleaner than before. Mids are a bit harder to really define and put into words what has changed, I think that there are differences, but can´t really point out what they are, same goes for the highs, maybe a tad more "shimmer" from cymbals and those kinds of instruments. Soundstaging seems a little more defined and it´s easier to point out where the sounds are coming from.

 Overall there are small changes, which I think make my 'phones sound more open and natural.


----------



## Baird GoW

Can anyone tell me what the best tubes and opamp would be for stock Ultrasone HFI-780? I'm looking for synergy.


----------



## Baird GoW

Anyone have a clue to my last question?


----------



## Bullseye

No, sorry pal, my LD I+ is quite new and i have not had the chance to start any tube-op-amp rolling. And I doubt i will do it anytime soon.


----------



## the7comeback7kid

Hey first time poster here. Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents. I swapped in a lm4562 op amp and was really pleased. This brought the sound to a more accurate level. With this OP amp in a swapped out the 6ji tubes.(I think thats what mine came with, but the j1 and j2 jumpers were on?) I put in some WE403A's. I do not like the sound at all. The level of detail and imaging are not very good at all. I actually preferred the stock tubes over these WE's on my Grado sr225's. I suppose I am back on the hunt for a decent set of tubes. I am hoping for a velvety, open, detailed sound. Any advice is appreciated!


----------



## Sw33t.Shuga.Ray

^^^so far Ive tested the Sylvania Gold 408a and they have alot of detail vs the stock tubes (username "hottyson" is selling them/?instock) . FWIR the Amperex and Tungsols are also good.


----------



## intoart

The Tung Sols reduce the difference in sound between my I+ and my (solid state) integrated amp to such a degree that I have no preference.
 Since I am a tad short on funds at this point (unexpectedly had to buy a car!), I think I will use the integrated and sell the I+.
 With shipping, I paid $143 for the I+, $77 for the tubes, and $15 for the opamp upgrade. I will also throw in a pair of Westinghouse tubes that were $28, bringing the total value to $263. Does $200 seem like a good deal for this package?


----------



## Baird GoW

Dont go off topic but I would leave it


----------



## lisztian420

I got the standard tubes and have not gotten a chance to change the op amp yet. I invested a few hours reading all the posts here and I am surprised by how decent the stock tube/op amp sounds. OF course I would like to try GA408s but it seems very difficult to get a hold of. I got the Wester Electric 408 tubes, again.... did not have a chance to roll them in because I have been too busy...

 Guys,.. so what do you think? what is the best op amp/ tube combo? Mullard M 8100, Sylvania Gold Brand GB408A, Amperex 6AK5W with LT1364??


 Thanx for the help in advance.


----------



## Bullseye

The 6J1 pentodes are quite good IMHO


----------



## Bullseye

Well, any more impressions? I might go tomorrow to buy some op-amps, if I find them at a shop from university. Do not know which one I should look for, though


----------



## cristox

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bullseye* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, any more impressions? I might go tomorrow to buy some op-amps, if I find them at a shop from university. Do not know which one I should look for, though_

 

lt1364 or op2107 is a good start.

 Be sure to get the 8-lead pdip kind of opamp:
http://www.linear.com/designtools/packaging/pdip/N8.pdf


----------



## lisztian420

Alrite,.. so I got my LT1364! Installed it,.. and.... the improvement of SQ is very noticeable. Then,.. I rolled in my new WE408A and I am really liking the sound! I am soo happy that I got the LT1364! Good upgrade for $10! I think the WE408A are also significantly better than the original tubes. Anyways,.. I am happy! For those who got the LD I+ go and get the LT1364 and a nice pair of matched tubes now


----------



## hottyson

*For those of you who like heavy bass, The Amperex 6AK5W are extremely bass heavy.
 If you cant find any, I have extra Amperex 6AK5W tubes I will put up for sale in the "for sale" section.
 Bass snobs need not inquire.
*


----------



## colleycol

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lisztian420* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Alrite,.. so I got my LT1364! Installed it,.. and.... the improvement of SQ is very noticeable. Then,.. I rolled in my new WE408A and I am really liking the sound! I am soo happy that I got the LT1364! Good upgrade for $10! I think the WE408A are also significantly better than the original tubes. Anyways,.. I am happy! For those who got the LD I+ go and get the LT1364 and a nice pair of matched tubes now
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

How hard is it to replace the op amp?


----------



## LeftyGorilla

1. unplug power, let sit for 10 minutes, remove tubes.
 2. remove bottom 2 screws on face and back plates
 3. flip over and lift off bottom plate
 4. locate opamp noting orientation of lettering
 5. remove with fingers or gently with pliers
 6. pop in replacement op amp in same orientation as stock op amp
 7. replace bottom plate and tubes
 8. enjoy.


----------



## lisztian420

yep yep! It's quite easy even for me! Just watch out for the screw-drivers,.. they are built with uh.... what's the technical term for this.... oh yeah, crap metal.


----------



## cristox

I got my samples of OPA2107 opamps a few days ago.
 Considerably more bass and less bright than LT1364.
 The highs are a little tamed, listening for a long time is now much easier on the ears.
 Mids are more pronounced and voices prevail more over the band/orchestra.

 The OPA2107 doesnt sacrifice any details...its just more laid back.
 If you are (like me) are into rock, metal and R&B you should try OPA2107 in your LD1+.
 It Rocks...

 It is a great experience rolling tubes and opamps with this amps.
 Until now i only had very noticable effects swapping those parts.
 I like my LD1+ so much...


----------



## sdcloud69

Where can i score some OPA2107 samples? They sell them on ebay for like about $20, seems a bit steep to me.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

There ought to be a list of op-amps available for rolling in the I+, anyone care to compile a list like that?


----------



## Robot

Is there anyone who used Tung Sol 408A's? Are they really worth the price?


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Robot* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there anyone who used Tung Sol 408A's? Are they really worth the price?_

 

Yes, well worth the cost....of course I only paid $3 a tube off eBay...I guess it depends what your price is. I really haven't put enough hours on them to comment on their SQ


----------



## cristox

I found my opamp for the LD1+...

 Its the single opamp OPA211 from Texas Instruments mounted on a single-to-dual adapter from Brown Dog.

 It has got the sound i like.
 Everything is more balanced and has a better soundstage than with all the other opamps i have tried. No sibilance at all. I hate sibilance.

 I swapped all my opamps "blind" and listened to 3 albums each to get an impression.
 This might be not very scientific but the OPA211 clearly won this contest.

 I have tried so far:

 Dual Opamps
 -LT1364CN8#PBF (DIP-8, Bipolar)
 -OPA2107AP (DIP-8, DiFET)
 -LME49860NA (DIP-8, Bipolar)

 Single Opamps (with single to dual adapter)
 -2x OPA827AID (SO-8, JFET)
 -2x OPA211ID (SO-8, Bipolar)
 -2x LT1028ACN8 (DIP-8, Bipolar)

 Niiiiceee!

 P.s.: I am trying to hunt down some AD797BRZ but no luck so far (mostly too expensive...)
 If anyone has got two AD797BRZ for sale, PM me please.


----------



## cristox

Grmpf!

 I just burned two resistors inside of my LD1+ while tuberolling.
 I forgot to switch from 408a to EF92.

 Could someone take a look inside his amp and send me the color code of the two resistors in line and next to the two dip-switches?

 A close-up photo would be excellent.

 Please!


----------



## FredG

If your Little Dot I+ is revision 2, these two resistors are 20 ohms 1/4W ones.
 Burned them in the same situation (408A => M8083) one month ago...


----------



## cristox

Thank you very much, brother...


----------



## godspeed

hello, 

 yes I had the same problem here

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/lit...advice-406725/

 these are indeed 1/4 watt 20 ohms with 1% tolerance and metallic cover (not carbon).

 easy to replace if you have some skills on DIY


----------



## cristox

another brother.
 Thanks.

 Im going to buy 10 pieces or so if this should happen again.
 And im going to solder in the resitors a little bit elevated to prevent them burning the PCB, just in case...


----------



## RonMiller1

Ok important question, I have my amp apart and have no idea what to do. So I have the stock tubes now, going to 408s. So the instructions made it seem like a normal switch. I see the thing I am supposed to change, but it doesn't look much like a switch, and doesn't move easy. So is it a switch as in, push it over, or the kind where I take it out and reverse it?


----------



## cristox

If it is a little metal thing with a protruding black plastic pin it is the switch, as in pushing over.


----------



## RonMiller1

Okay cool. I was worried about pushing too hard incase it wasn't a normal switch. I'll do it once I get home. thanks!


----------



## RonMiller1

It doesn't move easy. Just to make sure, it's this guy right? I just have to push it to the left and I can use 408a's?

 Sorry for the stupid questions.


----------



## 928GTS

The picture isn't too great but that looks like a jumper,just lift up the plastic part and move it over so that the pin on the left is connected to the center through use of the jumper.


----------



## RonMiller1

Ahhhh got it now. I'm dumb. Sorry about that haha. The picture was taken with my phone. Not the best camera in the world for micro shots!


----------



## Trapper32

UHHH Shouldn't the jumper only be changed if u use the EF 92 tubes...I think the jumpers stay the same if u go from the stock to the 408a....U DO have to change the switch tho for the 408a...


----------



## RonMiller1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trapper32* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_UHHH Shouldn't the jumper only be changed if u use the EF 92 tubes...I think the jumpers stay the same if u go from the stock to the 408a....U DO have to change the switch tho for the 408a..._

 

From the Manual

 "To use WE408A tubes: 
 1. K1 and K2 set to the side of the “WE408A” text 
 2. Make sure the jumper caps are removed from J1 and J2 (open circuit) 

 To use 6JI, 6AK5, 5654, WE403A/B, etc: 
 1. K1 and K2 set to the side of the “6JI” text 
 2. Make sure the jumper caps are removed from J1 and J2 (open circuit) 

 To use EF91, EF92, CV131, CV138, etc: 
 1. K1 and K2 set to the side of the “6JI” text 
 2. Make sure the jumpers caps are in place over both J1 and J2 (short circuit) "

 Maybe my stock ones were not really normal stock? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I had the 6JI in mine.


----------



## Trapper32

If you had the 6J1's u shouldn't have had any jumpers on those pins....and when replacing them with the 408a's u just have to move those two switches K1 and K2 to the 408a's side that is printed on the pcb...

 yes those 6j1's are the stock tubes...they're EF95, 6AK5*, etc family


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cristox* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I found my opamp for the LD1+...

 Its the single opamp OPA211 from Texas Instruments mounted on a single-to-dual adapter from Brown Dog.

 It has got the sound i like.
 Everything is more balanced and has a better soundstage than with all the other opamps i have tried. No sibilance at all. I hate sibilance._

 


 Thanks Cristox...will have to try this one....unfortunately its backordered till June..


----------



## cristox

Thats interesting.
 My LD1+ has got switches in that position and RonMiller1's has got jumpers.
 I know it because the two resitors next to the switches/jumpers burned in my amp...

 Maybe Little Dot changed the layout from switches to jumpers because those switches are a little cheap and flimsy. Jumpers are more simple and reliable.

 Sorry for misguiding you, RonMiller1...



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trapper32* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you had the 6J1's u shouldn't have had any jumpers on those pins....and when replacing them with the 408a's u just have to move those two switches K1 and K2 to the 408a's side that is printed on the pcb...

 yes those 6j1's are the stock tubes...they're EF95, 6AK5*, etc family_


----------



## RonMiller1

No need to apologize, apparently things were changed with the 2.0 version. I came across photos of the 1.0 that had the switch. I even had an older manual at first so I was highly confused until I saw that mine said 2.0 on it. 

 Everything is working now, and sounds fantastic. My first time opening up any of my equipment, so it was a learning experience.



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cristox* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thats interesting.
 My LD1+ has got switches in that position and RonMiller1's has got jumpers.
 I know it because the two resitors next to the switches/jumpers burned in my amp...

 Maybe Little Dot changed the layout from switches to jumpers because those switches are a little cheap and flimsy. Jumpers are more simple and reliable.

 Sorry for misguiding you, RonMiller1..._


----------



## cristox

My amp is v2.0, too, but with switches.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RonMiller1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No need to apologize, apparently things were changed with the 2.0 version. I came across photos of the 1.0 that had the switch. I even had an older manual at first so I was highly confused until I saw that mine said 2.0 on it. _


----------



## RonMiller1

That is weird! I want a switch too! Why does everyone else have a switch? No fair!

 Say you are looking at it from the same angle as my picture, where are your switches? I know on other boards they are kinda top leftish.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cristox* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My amp is v2.0, too, but with switches._


----------



## cristox

The switches in my LD1+ v2.0 are in the same position as the jumpers in yours.

 I think jumpers are better.
 The switches they have used are flimsy and not reliable.
 I had a problem with them once as i flipped the switch but it did not make electrical contact.

 When did you buy your LD1+?
 Mine is from nov/23/08.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RonMiller1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_




 That is weird! I want a switch too! Why does everyone else have a switch? No fair!

 Say you are looking at it from the same angle as my picture, where are your switches? I know on other boards they are kinda top leftish._


----------



## RonMiller1

I bought mine exactly a week ago today. I'm kinda amazed at how fast I got it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cristox* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 When did you buy your LD1+?
 Mine is from nov/23/08._


----------



## Bullseye

Hey guys

 After a few months using my LD I+ with stock tubes (6J1) and op-amp I have thought about changing the tubes. I won't spend more than 25-30 $ for a pair of tubes, being that the maximum with shipping fees included. If I can go cheaper then better. 

 I don't know exactly where to buy, and if I go for eBay I would only buy from trustworthy sellers. I try to buy only from sellers with 100% positive ratings. If they have less, but you guys have had good treatment with an specific seller I will give it a go.

 So, any help?

 EDIT: Anyone likes the Mullard M8100 tubes with stock op-amp?


----------



## LeftyGorilla

I think you won't find much in that price range.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But I have had good luck with Yen Audio, shipping to Europe might put you over budget? WE408A


----------



## Bullseye

Are those the so popular WE408A? Are they really worth that price they have?
 Is the op-amp change as noticeable as some users say it is? Need some feedback with that


----------



## LeftyGorilla

Yeah, I think the WE408A is popular, but the Sylvania Gold 408A might be more highly regarded.

 I found the op amp change noticeable. There was a guy who tried many many of them and came to a few conclusions...I think in this thread?

 Maybe try finding a continental source for the Russian Voshod EF95?

 I have a pair of these, and while I like the Sylvanias better, they are not bad at all.


----------



## saitoh

I couldn't stomach the price on the WE408As when I saw them a couple months ago. The stock 6JIs didn't bother me except they were too dark/bassy with my ety ER-6s. I went with the Voshod 6J1P-EV which is around your price range. The bass tightened up and the high-end came alive a little more to me. 

 I'm content enough with the tubes that I'm not going to mess around with them anymore. I might switch the opamp out for something that doesn't produce more top-end (or any other range for that matter) but does offer a clearer "picture", maybe darken it just a smidgen.


----------



## Robot

Could someone recommend some spacious tubes to use with this baby? Something with extended highs and deep bass that is!


----------



## hottyson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Robot* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Could someone recommend some spacious tubes to use with this baby? Something with extended highs and deep bass that is!_

 

*That depends on the headphones that you will be using.

 The stock tubes sound good with Koss KSC75, Koss Portapro, and Sony MDR-CD780.

 I have listened to a number of 408A tubes. The Western Electric 408A sound good with the Beyerdynamic DT-770PRO (80 ohm). The Sylvania Gold Brand GB-408A sound good with Grado SR-225.

 If you like bass, the Amperex 6AK5W tubes are bass heavy. They add bass to all of my headphones.*


----------



## rush340

Woohoo, I got mine yesterday! Sounds great! Completely stock, it gets me one step in the right direction, with added warmth and taming of the highs. Now my SR-80's are bright, but with no fatigue. The only shortcomings are a reduced soundstage and that I would still like a little more bass (slightly stronger/deeper, but without loss of clarity and speed). Any tube suggestions for this?

 I'm also thinking that upgrading to the SR-225i's might get me that slight boost in bass (I'm not a basshead, just want a tiny bit more as the bass lines sometimes get lost in the Grados). I'm a little disappointed with the loss of soundstage and separation though, since the Grados didn't have much to begin with. That might be a trade-off with the taming of the highs though? With so many different properties heard in sound, it's not always easy to tell where you can actually improve without some sort of trade-off.


----------



## RonMiller1

Any tips on where to find the Sylvania Gold 408A? I've been looking all over.


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RonMiller1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any tips on where to find the Sylvania Gold 408A? I've been looking all over._

 


 I have a few of the Gold Brand Gold Pins available. If you're interested PM me...


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RonMiller1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any tips on where to find the Sylvania Gold 408A? I've been looking all over._

 

Yen Audio on ebay used to carry matched pairs, that's where I got mine. They're the most reliable place to get Little Dot tubes and they're great guys I would send them a message see if they have anymore. 

 - DoA


----------



## DarKu

Can someone tell me how I+ sounds with Grados ? I want to make an bedside rig and thinking about this one. It is OK or is it really good with Grados ?
 Thanks.


----------



## Bullseye

I think it is very good with my grado sr225. However I have not tried any other amp.

 I have received my Mullard M8100 valves today and listening to it this morning/afternoon. 

 For the price it costs is indeed a great amp (cheaper than my other two options -B22 or Meier Arietta-)


----------



## rush340

I got a nice deal on a set of 3 supposedly matched Sylvania JHS 6AK5W's. I decided they're not for me though. They don't match well with my SR80's. Slightly improved bass and strong mids, which is what I wanted, but I lost quite a bit of clarity and soundstage. The attacks of snare and higher pitch bass drum hits really popped out with these. The dealbreaker though, was the sibilance. It definitely made the amp fatiguing to listen to. It also caused an unnatural sound on some vocals at a certain frequency (i.e. "The Great Gig in the Sky").

 Oh well, I'll have to resell them and try something else. The stock tubes sound great, but lack bass, and lack a little bit of power in the mids. They're great in the upper range though. The vocals are very natural sounding, and they have a great soundstage with great detail. How are the mullards (cv4010, I think)?


----------



## scheiderichdmd

I just ordered some m8161 Mullard's for an SR80. I've been using the stock EF92's, and tried both the Lt1364's and Lm4562 op amps. I think I prefer the 1364's but it is a close call between the two. The 1364's are a little bit more dynamic to my ears, and very detailed. I'll report back on the M8161's when I get them (probably Monday), and have had a chance to listen to them. I think the stock EF92's are also lacking a little bit in bass, but the mids and high sound really good.


----------



## Bullseye

Hey, so I was looking at the different valves you can use in this amp, and I wonder, does it accept tetrodes or triods? 

 I have checked the ones that come in the booklet and they are all pentodes. Anyone using any triod or tetrode?


----------



## Bullseye

Bump^


----------



## rush340

Sylvania Gold Brand 408a's on the way. I hope they impress more than the other Sylvania's (6AK5W) I tried.


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## PatOMalley

I read through this thread several times as well as a few other threads on this tube headphone amp and finally got one.

 Big winner.

 Stock sound is typical Asian tinkly sound at startup. Seems like they like a sharper high end. I like a full midrange, sweet topend, /w bass out the *****.

 I thought that the LM4562 were the goto opamp but reading so many posts here that the midrange went missing I thought first step was to try to get the opamp sorted out. 







 The thing comse stock /w a 33078P which as incisive and tinkly. Nice extension and spacial keys but to thin overall. So I tried a OPA2604.






 It's a softer sound and to boost the body I added a .1uF foil cap to the v pins. Yep, nice body but still soft. Shmoooooth. I always liked the detail of the LM5462 but so many people around here thought it wrong that a while back I came across a smapling of AD827, which are said to be the LM4562 but better in that they had fuller bass and body, more shcmooze, but kept all the dynamics and detail.






 So I fixed two to a BrownDog adapter and OH YEAH, lively detail with nice bass and full midrange. OK, got that down.

 Even with the stock 6JI tubes the sound is intimate, very spoacial with some sounds seeming to come outside the Sennheise 280s. Tried Grado SR60 but they seem too 'close together'. Anyway, the sound of the amp now is really gratifying. Could go with those 6JI's forever, if I wasn't me.

 I found a set of matched Sylvania Blue Glass 6AK5 on ebay. Word is that they beat the gold brand. And the glass is -blue-. whoooo. 






 If the sound is so good now then that audio nirvana is assured with NOS Sylvania's. Oh baby.

 I have to get some Herbie's tube dampers .....


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## PatOMalley

Some complain that the fast opamp like the LM4562 loses midrange warmth, etc.
 What I did was to put two .1uF caps on v-,v+ and run that to ground. It stabilizes the opamp, drives noise to ground, and allows the fast opamp to let everything flow. The opamp is faster than the musc and gets out of the way.







 Wow. Stock 6J1 tubes sound great. There is no coldness, no etch, or anything like that. Just a step closer to the world of reality. It's nirvana.


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## rush340

I just got my Sylvania Gold Brand 408a's, and I must say, I'm very happy. Exactly what I was looking for. Deeper bass, smooth warm mids, detailed highs with no sibilance. A little less spacial than the 6J1's as an effect of these differences. Only downside is that I can't tell that the amp is on by looking at the tubes, they're barely glowing. I guess I can live with that though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I might play with opamps later, but I think I'm done tube rolling.


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## PatOMalley

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rush340* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got my Sylvania Gold Brand 408a's, and I must say, I'm very happy. Exactly what I was looking for. Deeper bass, smooth warm mids, detailed highs with no sibilance. A little less spacial than the 6J1's as an effect of these differences. Only downside is that I can't tell that the amp is on by looking at the tubes, they're barely glowing. I guess I can live with that though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I might play with opamps later, but I think I'm done tube rolling._

 

The 6J1's are really not bad. I didn't like my first set of Sylvanias but I may try the gold brand. The Amperex are very nice - They are reported to be Mullards labeled as Amperex. I am going to try a few more to just fool around. But even bass light headphones like the Senn 280 Pro and Grado 60 wind up with a lot of bass form the Amperex.

 I have a OPA2228 that I will put some caps on to see what the difference is between my grounded LM4562. But I have to say that whatever tube you may choose capping and grounding that opamp takes the thing to that whole other place.


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## rush340

Yeah, I actually really like the 6J1's. I even prefer them over the Gold Brands for certain music. I'm using SR80s and the Gold Brands seem to emphasize the Grado sound, while the 6J1's make the Grados sound more spatial and flat. I'll probably be switching back and forth between the two.

 Also, I did try Sylvania 6ak5w's before and didn't like them at all (they had slightly more bass than the 6J1's, but less detail, and emphasized sibilance), and was very happy to find that the Sylvania Gold Brands were nothing like those.

 Edit:
 I've been comparing the GB 408a's and the stock 6J1's some more, and I'm actually finding I still prefer the 6J1's in most cases. I'd be interested in trying these with something other than Grados. They emphasize the Grado's sound a little too much in some cases.


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## PatOMalley

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rush340* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Edit:
 I've been comparing the GB 408a's and the stock 6J1's some more, and I'm actually finding I still prefer the 6J1's in most cases. I'd be interested in trying these with something other than Grados. They emphasize the Grado's sound a little too much in some cases._

 

I don't really use the Grado's anymore. I have Sennheiser Pro HD280 and the 6J1 sound powerfull and spacial on them while the Amperex 6ak5w are smoother and sweeter, more refrained but the detail is less oomph, more elegant. Powerful anyway since the bass is all there.

 I gotta try some RCA - the old school USA sound. I may pass on the Sylvania GB based on what you say. the price it over the top - unless I find them cheap somewhere.

 So try some Sennheiser's, the 280 Pros are around $100. they mate with the Amperex. I have to get a Pair of Denon 1000 next. All these headphones are around $100-150. The Grado sound nice on the computer ...


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## RonMiller1

Has anyone else noticed soundstage decreasing over time with WE 408A's? Is that normal with tubes? I've noticed some difference over the last couple weeks and in the processing of figuring out what is causing it. So I thought I'd ask here to see if it's possible.


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## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rush340* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, I actually really like the 6J1's. I even prefer them over the Gold Brands for certain music. I'm using SR80s and the Gold Brands seem to emphasize the Grado sound, while the 6J1's make the Grados sound more spatial and flat. I'll probably be switching back and forth between the two.

 Also, I did try Sylvania 6ak5w's before and didn't like them at all (they had slightly more bass than the 6J1's, but less detail, and emphasized sibilance), and was very happy to find that the Sylvania Gold Brands were nothing like those.

 Edit:
 I've been comparing the GB 408a's and the stock 6J1's some more, and I'm actually finding I still prefer the 6J1's in most cases. I'd be interested in trying these with something other than Grados. They emphasize the Grado's sound a little too much in some cases._

 

Sylvania made a few different versions of the GB...does yours have Gold Pins and wondering how strong they tested when u bought them?


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## PatOMalley

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trapper32* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sylvania made a few different versions of the GB...does yours have Gold Pins and wondering how strong they tested when u bought them?_

 

have you hard both and what is the difference between the gold pins vs the no gold pins ... other than the pins. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i know where to get non gold pin ones and am now wondering.


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## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PatOMalley* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_have you hard both and what is the difference between the gold pins vs the no gold pins ... other than the pins. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i know where to get non gold pin ones and am now wondering._

 


 I've only heard the Gold Pin 408a's and everyone that I know that has tried them with Grado's think they are far superior to the Chinese 6J1's. I"m certainly no expert on tubes but olblueyez in the Cavalli Compact Tube Hybrid (CTH) Tube & Tweak thread states that "the Sylvania GB (Gold Brand) with the gold pins, and yes they must have gold pins. GB's with steel or nickel pins are standard Sylvania's with the Gold Printing (They started passing the cheap ones off as GB when they stopped making the real GB's). So I'm told. 

 Moral to the story, Its better to have a few pricey tubes than a bunch of cheapo's. " 

 When someone asked if there was a difference in the sound between the Gold Pins and non he responded "Cadillac and Chevrolet, the GB's (and they must have the gold pins, some dont and they are different) were made for high end audio applications."

 Which is why I was wondering if Rush 340 had the Gold Pins or not...since his observations of the GB compared to the Chinese 6J1 run contrary to alot dare i say most who have tried the Gold Pins. Of course everything is dependent on everything in the chain and personal preferences can certainly account for differences of opinion. But in this instance I wonder if its a case of Gold Pins vs the plain GB


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## PatOMalley

Thenaks for the reply.
 I know where to pick up some GB /w out the gold pins but will now let them pass.

 No such thing as a free lunch, huh?


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## morfic

PatOMalley: Interesting dealings with the opamp capping, got my interest sparked.
 I was supposed to get rid of my MkV, and did, but ended up succumbing to wanting to know synergy of a LD hybrid with my D1001, i have the MkII for my HD600 and through that, a way too large stock pile of tubes, so this should be interesting, especially since you do interesting things with my favorite opamp (couldn't stand the weak bright sound of the MC33078P in the MkV, and loved the MkV with LME49720)
 I picked up a I+ used (in transit), so i actually get LT1364 and OPA2107 to play with, I'm gonna get me another LME49720 and a couple caps.
 CV4014/EF91 tubes are still my favorite.
 Thanks for the mod suggestion, i may need to come up with a way to make this "switchable" i never looked at sockets, could i solder this to a socket and then use the opamp in this socket and the sum of both in the amp's socket? :>


 I guess i am alone with my "better many cheaper tubes than one pair for $50+" thinking. I rather have 10 pc 6J1P-EV which are an amazing upgrade over the (not actually bad at all) stock tubes, than one hard to get pair that after maybe ~1000 hours has to be replaced.

 I can pick up another pair of EF91 or 6J1P-EV if the currently used pair gives out.
 Should i sell both amps and no longer have use for that many tubes, i can sell them for $3 a piece and not have lost much if anything.

 The suggestion in one post, that a guy can't find a nice upgrade for $25-30 shipped is pretty wild and exactly what ebay sellers like yen1233 "pray on" (harsh but not too harsh) (Think of him picking up a lot of 100pc for $120 shipped, and spending a few minutes "matching" them, it's selection nothing more. So here are 2 6ZH1P-EV for $24 plus $8 shipping that cost him $2.40....let's be fair and say he needs to make a living....$4.80 is a 100% markup, heck he just bought a new car.....$9.60, still not $24 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 )
 If you would know your likes are like mine, i could suggest you one pair and then you could say "Hey those will be exactly what i want.", but taste is so different, i rather afford a few different ones and am able to pick my favorite from that.
 "But what about all the tubes you bought and now don't like?" you ask? Far from it, i have favorites, but when i switch tubes i often find myself liking certain tracks more with certain tubes that day.
 "Why do you switch so often?" you ask, well if you have 3-4 pairs and they all ask to be burned in you run some 8 hours, switch, run them 8 and so on, what started as a necessity, can turn into fun.

 In short: i would encourage anyone to experiment, limit the set of what you try by what you learn in these threads, but don't waste your money on $50 pairs.
 Oh, and head over to the Little Dot MkIII tube rolling thread, they can't use 408a, but that aside, lots of interesting stuff there, and if you see someone proposing to not pay more than $8 a tube, yes i read the post, and i like it, cause i have seen what forums can do to used (adapated) lens prices.


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## PatOMalley

Yeah, the best thing would be to place the cap under the board on thsoe pin and run to ground from tehre. Then you can plug and play with any opamp without any more soldering.

 I just didn't want to take the LD apart. And I get to use those modded opamps in any socketed board so for the future I have some thing finished and portable.


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## morfic

you got the manual handy? how do i set which pins to adjust gain?
 my used I+ did not come with a manual


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## PatOMalley

jumper settings can be found here: Little Dot I+ mods


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## morfic

Correct me if i'm wrong, that is addressing the tube settings.

 Little Dot lists I+ having:

 # User variable gain settings: 6.5x or 3.25x

 I guess it's jumpers J3 and J4, but am hesitant to just pull them off to try difference.
 I+ is driving my D1001 very poorly right now. Much less than MkV did, and the power of the I+ at 32Ohm should outdo the MkV easily.


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## PatOMalley

morfic,

 I just updated my page with a scan of the manual showing settings for gain.


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## morfic

Thanks! This is good news, J3 and J4 are capped, so i am at half the possible gain, this is going to be fun trying it all again uncapped!

 Thanks again!


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## PatOMalley

let us know if it's noisier when you increase the gain.


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## morfic

What noise are you asking about? i Just plugged my D1001 back in to see if i can hear hiss, but even at 100% volume with source connected but paused there is hardly any audible hiss, i hear nothing suggesting i get USB bus noise into this, which is nice.
 I'm trying this with the D1001 since the 32Ohm make finding hiss easier, with the HD600 that i am using to evaluate the I+ (since i know it's sound with the MkII + EF91 the best) and their 300Ohm, i know of no hiss or noise of any kind. They are black on anything.

 When i first connected the I+ to the Pro-Ject USB Box i was underwhelmed, i had issues driving either phone. I switched the Mullard EF92 Small Shield to the I+ and tried the Mullard Large Shield the I+ came with in the MkII. (on the small shield large shield front, i am glad i never hunted for large shield, i can't tell them apart)

 I rechecked the I+ but only went ahead switching my burned in EF91 to the I+ and left it alone, connecting my new source to the MkII, after i got the Transit working in linux i proceeded to listen to the Transit on the MkII (fresh pair of EF91s installed meanwhile)
 Got to like my new source. 
 Back to the I+ with my HD600 and Hello! something must have been wrong at first because there it was loud and strong. I listened to some tracks i know pretty well and it sounded great on the HD600 (considering the I+ is made for low impedance phones).
 Tried the LT1364 that came with the I+ next (came installed with OPA2107) and yes, i do prefer LT1364 over OPA2107, but w/o a LME49720 around i can't say much about the LT1364 in comparison.

 The I+ with CV4014/EF91 Mullards (white box, no shield, KQDD/K labeled) and LT1364 has the full package, airy, clear vocals, both female and male, nice low extension, be it drums, bass plucks, or low cello notes, it's all impactful.
 Cymbals seem to come out a little more right now with this combination, and snares sound like the metall bands hit against a tighter tensioned membrane.

 So far I'm loving it, Gain 6.5 (7?) is no problem at all, and I *think* it reminds me more of the MkII than before, very dynamic, musical, *FUN* (I had felt the music became flat when i switched MkII from Gain10 to "true" Gain 5, the change from 3.5x to 7x reminds me of that, just in revers of course)

 I meant to test the amp with certain songs but found myself stuck listening to more from same album, that's *FUN* 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 As much bass as i have right now on the EF91 (have a nicer low extension than the EF92 Mullards btw) i am almost scared to try any 6AK5 or my "bass when i need it" 6Zh1P-EV
 Going from 6Zh1P-EV to EF92 Mullards used to show the Mullard's rolled off bass in particular. (EF91 are like EF92 + more low end to me)

 I could go on for hours about this, but i rather go enjoy my music w/o my eyes glued on screen 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Thanks for the scans and the mods, i will have to go place an order for sockets, foil caps and most importantly LME49720 tonight,

 Daniel


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## morfic

Put in the EF95 ("The Russians") which i am used to giving me a lot more punch for the $ compared to EF91, and wow, sounds almost like i didn't switch tubes at all.
 Very very similar in sound. (So similar i am wondering what actually may be wrong, switching from EF91 (Mullards) to EF95 (Russians) is so easy to pick up on MkII)

 I think I'll reserve testing the EF95 mullards (CV4010) that came with the I+ in the MkII, where i can hear and appreciate the tube differences much easier.


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## morfic

I tried to not worry about it since the amp plays quite nicely, but how much glow do all your 6ZH1P-EV emit? or if you got any EF91 Mullards?
 My tubes in I+ stay at best warm to touch and emit no visible light except for the very tips, in MkII they are hot and have a visible (even in daylight) glow.
 I wonder if my heater voltage is correct?! (And i do get the same effect with the amp properly set to EF95 or EF92, i verified this a few times over, i don't mean set wrong, i mean heater voltage wrong if properly jumpered)


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## PatOMalley

My Amperex give off a glow after power on but not a flash that dies down. 
 The 6J1's gave off a similar glow but the Amperex are brighter.

 So the Russian tubes sound worthy. What is a good source?


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## morfic

Thanks, does seem my tubes are not running the way they should on the I+.
 Considering i am quite happy with the performance, i wonder if it worked even better with a properly working heater.

 I got a batch of 10 6J1P-EV from a Ukrainian seller (denys24something, i got 6 from '71, 3 '74, 1 '72), got two 6J1P another Ukrainian (non -EV, sound the same, from xryn), both packages made it here in under 10 days.

 '71, '74, '77 (foolishly bought from yen1233) all sound the same, some have the ridges in the glass, some do not, their performance is great no matter the year.
 6J1P-EV sound like the stock 6J1, with more detail and air, and seem to have more depth, like reverbs seem deeper.


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## morfic

http://www.zerorealm.org/LDI+_LDMkII.htm
 RightMark Audio Analyzer test: comparison[/url]
 I think it nicely shows the extra distortion from the cold tubes.
 Going to update this once i have been able to adjust my heater voltage.


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## morfic

Heater voltage *IS* low, 5.2V to be exact.
 Almost an exact 1V drop.


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## PatOMalley

so i will take notice of the batch I have coming from the Urals.
 I didn't see anything at that link and when I stripped the url back to the site/hostname it redirected my to Disney. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Yeha, I bought some tubes from yen. I sent them back for a refund. he gave the money back but the tubes were lame.






 Sylvania blue glass. ha. did some research and it may be that they are made by Brimar. I have a Brimar rectifier and in both cases those Brimars seem week.

 Now the Amperex do seem worthy.






 Nice and detail, no rough edges, not the oomph you get from the Chinese 6J1 but they are sweet and fast with a lot of hifi trickery. these Amperex are most probably rebranded Mullards.


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## morfic

it changed the + to a %20, bad forum!

 you can try it now, it works

RightMark Audio Analyzer test: comparison

 here is another goodie, EF91 CV4014s and EF92 large shield and small shield in MkII
 Certainly makes no sense to say EF91 distort more.

 Testing some CV4010 i got with I+ right now.
 Going to be a EF91, 6J1P-EV, CV4010 comparison later.

 Tell me if you think Large shield is worth the extra coin over small shield, like i said somewhere before, sounded the same to my ears, look a lot like each other in RMAA.


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## morfic

Heater voltage as measured how little dot wanted to measure (across pins 3 and 4) is 3V.
 But who would be surprised, i finally looked at the back of the amp....a 220V sticker quickly explained to me why everything runs at 1/2 the voltage, that it works at all and still performs so decently is amazing. just some high distortion, otherwise still powerful enough to drive even HD600....at half of everything...wow.

 Will be fun retesting this little gem when little dot comes back telling me if i am in luck (double wind transformer i could change paralleled outputs to serial outputs to keep output voltage constant, or back up in my case) or if i am unlucky (and i usually are) and it's a single wound transformer needing replacement.


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## PatOMalley

that's a rude awakening, isn't it?
 btw, did you tubes come matched from the Russians or do you just go by ear matching them?


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## morfic

Sure is, i did not think to look there, i bought it used form someone in the US, so i thought it's a done deal, i think he needs to try a working I+ when he gets around to buying another amp.....

 I used to go by ear, and i think my ears are good.....or matching is not such a trouble....during setup of RMAA i noticed input level meters that i need to bring to -1db before running the test, matched pair (i do have 1 or 2) or unmatched, the levels hit the same value each time, I+ is very even, MkII has a .4dB imbalance on each set....and i couldn't tell it did, threshold for majorly good ears is what? 1dB?

 Very informative experience all of this, i tell you that.


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## morfic

"Nice and detail, no rough edges, not the oomph you get from the Chinese 6J1 but they are sweet and fast with a lot of hifi trickery."

 I could steal your quote and claim i said that about the 6J1P-EV


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## morfic

RightMark Audio Analyzer test: comparison

 The surgery seems to have been a success, just waiting on a reference measurement on the 15Vac rectifier before putting this to prolonged use.

 It sure measures much better now. Should be fun evaluating it all over again.


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## morfic

Put OPA2107 back in so i can listen to it again with a properly working I+ after the transformer fix.
 I figured i test 3.5x gain vs 7x gain.

 While 7x gain does show 3dB more noise, it also shows only half the THD of 3.5x gain.
 Take from it what you will, i take 7x gain since i like fact it drives my HD600 well.

RightMark Audio Analyzer test: comparison

 I think i have measuring overload and stick to listening from here on until i can try the opamp bypass cap mod.


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## PatOMalley

Replaced the 479uF brown electrolycs /w Rubycon low impedance 1000uF/25v.
 It made a noticeable boost in weight. I will replace those others when I get some more Rubycons.


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## PatOMalley

test


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## rush340

I've actually been using the GB-408a's more and more. The pins are not gold, but they are definitely a huge leap over the Sylvania 6ak5w's I have. Like I said, their different from the 6j1's; not better or worse. A little more bassy, full, and forward, less spatial. They color the sound in the same way that grados do.

 I rolled a couple opamps, the LM4562 and the OPA2107. Much to my surprise I liked the 47 cent LM4562 more. I rolled these in with the GB-408a's though, so results might have been different with the 6j1's, but I swapped them back an forth a couple times to make sure. I was definitely expecting the opposite, especially since the OPA2107 cost about 25x as much. It just seemed to muddy up on complex/busy parts of some songs, and sounded rather lifeless.

 I'm very very happy with my Grado SR80, GB-408a, LM4562 combo right now. Just perfect for rock music, which makes up a majority of my listening.


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## morfic

that's an awesome broken index, ain't it?
 did some more non cap mod testing, not what i was looking for, going to mode some opamps this weekend.


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## jonnymk

i'm suprised there is not much mention of the Mullard EF92s. 

 I didn't like the Chinese EF92's mine came with. Excellent bass impact but the highs were just pericing and static sounding. One valve looked much older than the other and it was audibly quieter. 

 I got a 2 pairs of NOS Mullard EF92's for £32 and have never looked back. The mids are so much more detailed and the highs are smooth but still detail and dynamic the overall sound is much more liquid and fun with the sacrifice of a little bit of bass. The little dot I+ works fantastic with RS-1's!


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## PatOMalley

the LM4562 is a fast opamp @ ~55megahertz. The OPA2228 I have is about 33 and you can sense the slowing up on the OPA. I think the LM is fast enough to get out of the way. But with this speed, so I have found in reading about these opamps, the speed causes oscillation unless you add some capacitance to the power pins. Then tieing to ground draws the noise to ground.

 Now with a sharp set of caps you might like the OPA since is softens the bite. But with a nice set of schmoozy tubes like the 6J1 or Mullards then the fast LM can unravel all the details and dynamics while retaining whateve character the tubes have. Big win/win.


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## morfic

I Agree, the Mullard EF92 (small shield, large shield, same thing) are nice tubes, until i heard the EF91 Mullards, those were my favorites on the MkII.


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## morfic

RightMark Audio Analyzer test: comparison

 Still not sure why differences between *tubes* are so subtle on the I+.
 I feel i hear more difference on opamps, still prefering the LME49720.
 But take a guess which is the stock LME49720 and which LME49720 is the modified one, just labeled (A) and (B), just as a fun reference i included The stock 6J1 and "The Russians", also less easy to distinguish from each other and the EF91, compared to how easily things are picked out on the MkII with the same tubes. Even frequency response changes on the MkII visibly, not just audible.
 I can hear the differences you describe with ease on the MkII, i wonder if the differences being larger on MkII is what makes me have a harder time on I+.


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## PatOMalley

I do not know the difference in the speed of those opamps but the LM4562 is 50mhrzt and the OPA2228 is 33MGRTZ. I expect they might look similar on a scope but they do sound different in application.

 I got my new Russian 6J1 and they sound more bass heavy than my Amperex aka Mullards. I do hear those differences. Having spent time with both the stock and new 6J1s I really don't see any reason to search out any better. I do think modding that opamp made a big difference.


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## morfic

I need to give the modded opamp some good listen/comparison to unmodified, since it's in amp it hasn't been out, so working from memory, well, that never works 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I also edited the previous post, i didn't type it exactly how i meant it, opamps i can actually pick out easier, i meant tube differences are harder to pick up on on this amp compared to the MkII.
 While i agree with the differences in sound you describe between tubes.
 I enjoy my Russian 6J1P-EV also, with the EF91 just being a much better synergy with my HD600, i use "The Russians" when i crave a little more oompf on low end.
 And so NOS is never an issue for me, i have PLENTY of 6J1P-EV (from '71 to '84, they all sound the same, with the '84 looking brand spanking new), and a good amount of EF91s.
 The rest is just few here and there to have heard a couple. 

 I finally did pick up some 408A, just to see if maybe those are easily audibly different.

 All in all i am impressed how well this amp even drives my HD600 at gain 7, although i will go back down to Gain3.5x, last night i put the D1001 back on the I+, and with the modded opamp, EF91 and gain7, i listened to music at ~5/100 on scale o_O


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## morfic

Ever notice the cap size National shows on the LME49720 spec sheet, in the riaa preamp circuit it's 47uF, just a smidgen higher than what we are using.


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## PatOMalley

47uF? Like where? On the opamp? I am using .1uF


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## morfic

I know we use .1uF, i see national use higher values in their datasheet too. Just makes me experiment happy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I think i will build a cmoy and measure it against the I+ and MkII as it progresses, one thing i noticed while reading about cmoy and LM4562 is that this opamp needs the decoupling caps to not oscillate, so even if i never did a comprehensive listening comparison between the LME with and without decoupling caps, i can be sure it's the right thing to have them, i just now wonder about 1uF and 47uF, since all three values are used in the spec sheet.


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## PatOMalley

I think if you use a foil cap you are in good order. Thing is that a .1 or 1uF foil cap is huge in comparison to an opamp. Then use a stacked film and you are back in the game size wise. With the exception being the non polar .1uF Blackgates ... which look to have dried up.

 So I guess the choice may be a 47uF electrolytic or a .1uF stacked film.


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## lazpete

Dear fellow head-fiers.

 After reading pretty much all there is on the Little Dot I+, there is one on the way! Red LED and all.
 Went for the stock model.

 Close to where I work, is a big electronic store, and I could use som help in finding the correct op amp alternatives among them all.

 I paste a link to the EU store, in english, and was hoping some kind person could point me to a couple of good op amps.

 Heres the link
https://www1.elfa.se/elfa~eu_en/b2b/...do?tab=catalog

 Thx a bunch in advance!

 Lasse


----------



## morfic

ArtikelNr.: 73-309-88 LM4562NA dual audio op-amp DIL8 73,50

 LM4562/LME49720 is all you will ever hear from me


----------



## lazpete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *morfic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ArtikelNr.: 73-309-88 LM4562NA dual audio op-amp DIL8 73,50

 LM4562/LME49720 is all you will ever hear from me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Oh, thx, really appreciated!


----------



## PatOMalley

LM4562 and/or OPA2228
 fast, clean, open, not even there vs a little schmooze.


----------



## lazpete

Put an order in, on one LM4562NA! (Havent even got the LD yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
 Thx for the assistance!


----------



## lazpete

Got the word from David, my LD I+ is on the way!
 Picked up the op-amp and power cable yesterday, now, Im gonna find myself some cool tubes!


----------



## lazpete

And now, Ive ordered a pair of Mullard M8161 from the UK!

 Cant wait to get hold of the little one now!


----------



## morfic

that's it? whimping out on one pair of tubes? ;P
 Since you are in sweden, you shouldn't have issues picking up some fun tubes for cheap, 6Zh1P-EV from russia/ukraine/lithuania should get to you quick and are dirt cheap, around $22 for 10 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I actually now have too many 6Zh1P-EV since i wanted to try a few different years.....all sound the same, *great*


----------



## PatOMalley

Morfic,

 These babies come in an origami box. Nice and full, lotsa bass. 

 NOVOSIBIRSK FACTORY






 Do you want to sell a set of your 6Zh1P-EV?


----------



## morfic

Those 6J1P are the non -EV version of my 6Zh1P-EV, i got some with ridges in glass, some w/o. Some with oxidized easily cleanable pins, some with bright clean pins.
 I think the -EV sound just like the non -EV.

 I think all my 6J1P-EV/6Zh1P-EV have the voshod rocket on them, let me know if you do want any.


----------



## oldskoolboarder

I've spent the last A/B/C'ing my old UHA3, new D10, and 'new' used Hornet M w/ my Grado 325i's. I was considering selling my LD I+ since the Hornet has a nice warmth that could conceivably scratch my tube itch.

 I had some time last night so I fired up the LD I+. I have to say, it still sounds great and I may just have to keep it.


----------



## morfic

I want to sell my I+, but then i put on the right music with the D1001 (what i bought it for) and forget all about selling it.....


----------



## lazpete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *morfic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_that's it? whimping out on one pair of tubes? ;P
 Since you are in sweden, you shouldn't have issues picking up some fun tubes for cheap, 6Zh1P-EV from russia/ukraine/lithuania should get to you quick and are dirt cheap, around $22 for 10 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I actually now have too many 6Zh1P-EV since i wanted to try a few different years.....all sound the same, *great*_

 

Shame on me!


----------



## morfic

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldskoolboarder* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've spent the last A/B/C'ing my old UHA3, new D10, and 'new' used Hornet M w/ my Grado 325i's. I was considering selling my LD I+ since the Hornet has a nice warmth that could conceivably scratch my tube itch.

 I had some time last night so I fired up the LD I+. I have to say, it still sounds great and I may just have to keep it._

 

MkII sounds tubier than I+ and tube differences are easier recognized, maybe sell some stuff for a SS + MkII set? ;P


----------



## lazpete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *morfic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_that's it? whimping out on one pair of tubes? ;P
 Since you are in sweden, you shouldn't have issues picking up some fun tubes for cheap, 6Zh1P-EV from russia/ukraine/lithuania should get to you quick and are dirt cheap, around $22 for 10 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I actually now have too many 6Zh1P-EV since i wanted to try a few different years.....all sound the same, *great*_

 

Any for sale?
 Pm appreciated!


----------



## lazpete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PatOMalley* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Morfic,

 These babies come in an origami box. Nice and full, lotsa bass. 

 NOVOSIBIRSK FACTORY





 Do you want to sell a set of your 6Zh1P-EV?_

 

Theese babies looked so darn sexy, I couldnt resist ordering a pair (i know, im a wimp) from Bulgaria!


----------



## morfic

if you think those are sexy.....you are in some trouble, especially once you notice they don't all look the same in the dark


----------



## lazpete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *morfic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_if you think those are sexy.....you are in some trouble, especially once you notice they don't all look the same in the dark 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Better hold on to my pants then


----------



## morfic

no thanks, you can hold them yourself.
 but you really need to check out the glow of some EF91 tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 pat: you really think the .1uF added anything over the 15pF that are already on the pcb?
 while preparing for a cmoy build i peeked at the I+ pcb some, couldn't helpbut notice those two.
 i'm nowhere near the I+ right now, else i'd verify the 15pF value.


----------



## lazpete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *morfic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_no thanks, you can hold them yourself.
 but you really need to check out the glow of some EF91 tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



_

 


 I bet I do, and I guess that wont be to long before it will happen


----------



## lazpete

Got these babies today, but still no amp to roll them in...


----------



## PatOMalley

somewhere.


----------



## morfic

Luckily those 6J1P sound just as good as the heralded 6J1P-EV, i wonder how much longer the extended life -EV really last.
 Fun tubes, for sure, mke sure you run your I+ for some time with the stock tubes first, or you'll never know what you got in those 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 No amp yet? Didn't you order it quite some time ago?


----------



## lazpete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *morfic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Luckily those 6J1P sound just as good as the heralded 6J1P-EV, i wonder how much longer the extended life -EV really last.
 Fun tubes, for sure, mke sure you run your I+ for some time with the stock tubes first, or you'll never know what you got in those 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 No amp yet? Didn't you order it quite some time ago?_

 

Yea, bout 10 days. From what I know, its on its way, and will arrive this week, hopefully.


----------



## morfic

Oh, only 10 days? Felt like it was longer, must have been those 3 days w/o AC that made it feel like weeks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Enjoy, i don't think you have phones you won't enjoy on it.


----------



## lazpete

Well, I better start this post with a confession; ive been tube rolling for the first time of my 40y+ life!
 I let the stock ones go, and put my Russian EF95 go to work!
 Fun!

 There has been some question about the K601 paired with the LD1+, and from my first 6hrs of experience, Ide say that they match pretty good. There is in my mind enough drive and power out of the stock LD1+, and it sound bloody amazing!
 This evening, ive put my A900 to work (tv in the same room), and after the first roll, im amazed! Love these cans.
 Listening to a new LP with Van Morrison, Tupelo Honey, and it is fantastic!
 Love life!
 Cheeers


----------



## PatOMalley

tube differences are behind the opamp on the LDI+; the opamp is last in the signal chain. I go back and forth between the OPA2228[schmooze] and the LM4562[clarity]. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *morfic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_MkII sounds tubier than I+ and tube differences are easier recognized, maybe sell some stuff for a SS + MkII set? ;P_


----------



## morfic

There is no going back for me, i am hard core into LME49720/LM4562. Which is also the opamp in the cmoy with active ground i just built.
 I got a chance to hear LT1364 and OPA2107, since both came with my I+, nope, not much fun, and one would require proper design of my cmoy to not kill my phones with too high a DC offset voltage, actually want to go measure DC offset with those two in the I+ too, the other (2107) oscillates like mad in cmoy.
 I may sell the MkII to fund a DAC purchase, since the I+ drives both my D1001 and my HD600 so very well.
 The MkII's tubier sound and pre-out is what still has me wonder about which amp to sell and which to keep.
 LME49720 while being a bipolar (aka difficult) behaves so great in cmoy, it tells a lot about opamps


----------



## PatOMalley

been looking around but can't find any other mods to the i+.
 have you changed output caps, resistors, etc?


----------



## morfic

Time permitting i would first test components in my cmoy amp (cmoy with active ground).

 Mostly curious about input cap material changes and how easy it is to hear the differences, on a simple amp like this i should be able to pick up on it eventually. Just been to busy to actually play much with cmoy (other than using it) since i built it.
 And i must say as happy as i am with it and as much as it reminds me of my LD MkV i used to have (yes also got a LME49720 transplant), i am not in too much of a hurry to play with the cmoy's parts.

 So my next goal maybe changing the cmoy amp enough to accept the LM6172 and running it stable w/o too much DC offset. (LT1364 in a cmoy delivers a whopping 300mV of DC offset o_O, OPA2107 oscillates in a cmoy, and MC33078P give 100mV of DC offset)
 Considering the MC33078P is the default choice for Little Dot, i actually feel much better about opamp swapping in LD amps.....

 I May still go and measure DC offset in I+ tonight.

 If i ever make an interesting mod to the I+ or have an interesting find, i'll post it here.
 Will be interesting to see how the LM6172 performs in the I+ once i have a LM6172 for the cmoy (DigiKey was out of stock when i ordered parts for cmoy :/)


----------



## Bullseye

I have a National LM4562NA. Is this the one you speak of for the Little Dot I+?


----------



## PatOMalley

That's the one.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bullseye* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a National LM4562NA. Is this the one you speak of for the Little Dot I+?_


----------



## Bullseye

^Nice. I will try it. Also plan to make some RMAA measurements. Once I do it if anyone's interested I can share them here as well.


----------



## morfic

http://www.danielgoller.com/rmaa/

 I would love to have something to compare this to.


----------



## Bullseye

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *morfic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_RightMark Audio Analyzer test: comparison

 I would love to have something to compare this to._

 

Yeap, those kind of measurements were the ones I was going to do. Also in one of the tests, when changing the power stage from 220V to 110V, was he actually testing the LD I+ with a wall converter, or was it from a 220V wall socket? Because the use of 220V has a THD% of 1.6% 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I will also perform some measurements of the new Cute Beyond (need to buy some darn cables...). Even so the LD I+ and LD MKII measure very good. (APArt from inconveniences of tubes, that is getting extremely hot, needing to turn off the unit if you want to change headphones, waiting for the tubes to warm up not as SS instant charge 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 Definitely like SS more than tube or Hybrid.


----------



## morfic

I bought the I+ used, somehow the seller ended up with one where input side of transformer was wired for 220V AC, so all my voltages inside amp were 1/2 running here on 110V AC in the US (yes seller was in US too o_O).

 The distortion is from tubes running too cold, heater voltage was way low, even my lovely glowing EF91 tubes only mastered a slight glow on the very to of the plates, instead of the full all over glow i knew from the MkII.

 Blew my mind when i noticed the 220V sticker on amp. so i rewired it for 110V AC and am enjoying it ever since.


----------



## morfic

Pat: in an application note for the LME49720 i noticed they bypass it with 1uF caps.
 and i measured the LME49720 with 0.1uF bypass caps in the cmoy and the RMAA measurement was a pretty rollercoaster in the highs, since the adding the 1uF Tantalums to the .1uF metal film it is pretty well behaved, might consider adding a 1uF to the .1uF.

 When you use bipolar opamps like LT1364, have you ever measured the DC offset?
 In the cmoy i got a whopping 300mV, after adjusting resitors (the gain setting pair) i got it down to 100mV (I don't have any 470kOhm resistors to tweak the offset to more sane levels)

 Since i don't know how the I+ is really designed, i would measure my DC Offset with anything but FET opamps or the LME49720/LM4562 (FETs have a input bias current in the pA range and LME49720 is the only well behaved bipolar opamps i saw in nA range, bipolar opamps like the LT1364 or LM6172 with input bias current in the uA range need a circuit designed for such high offsets)
 Considering the MC33078P of the I+ creates about 90mV offset in the cmoy, the LT1364 might have a potential of creating DC offsets in excess of 20mV (which is like the "under this its safe" threshold)
 Having said that, with the LM49720 in the I+ i measured 1mV DC offset only (~15mV in the cmoy)

 Two things to think about i guess.


----------



## PatOMalley

I got the idea for what I am doing from a number of sources, this one being foremost: Working with Cranky Op-Amps

 I did not measure anything. I just listened to what the effect was/is. 

 With the single .1uF cap with it's leads on pin 4 and 8 it was a good improvement. More power or oomph, really a level of stronger focus. But adding the two caps individually on 4 and 8 then tied to ground was a pretty incredible. The level of presence rose appreciably.

 So I never thought to measure. If I like what I hear them I'm good. I only get as technical as I need to get my way through.


----------



## morfic

Obviously sounding good is most important, the DC offset fries headphones, so it's beyond technicalities of RMAA measurements. (much loved amps often look pretty wonky in RMAA)
 the higher the offset, the more likely it'll cook the phones, the loss of dynamic range aside (the DC offset shifts the phone "to the side" by the amount of the DC offset)

 And yes, that page is where the whole idea of running 2 bypass caps per rail to ground is coming from. It's also him who i got the 20mV safe offset threshold from.


----------



## PatOMalley

We have output caps and the LM is not being used for gain am I right? Just for impedance matching. And LM is stated to have .1mV offset, lower than the stock opamp. I think you could actually remove the output caps.


----------



## lazpete

Back from a week in the sun, I opened it up, and replaced the stock op for a LM4562NA opamp, and at the same time I added a pair of CV4015 (EF92) mullards to the equation. And my new ref tune, old woodstock with van morrison on a brand new 180gr vinyl, just sounds fantastic. The acoustic guitar on the tune starting a new life is so real. Im gonna give this setup plenty of time, to see whrere it takes me.
 This is listening trough a pair of K601, gain on low.


----------



## morfic

You ought to try some CV4014 Mullards.

 Pat: opamp does voltage amplification, yes.


----------



## lazpete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *morfic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You ought to try some CV4014 Mullards.

 Pat: opamp does voltage amplification, yes._

 

What would be the primary difference to the CV4015 Mullard?

 Br
 Lasse


----------



## morfic

Vocals are clearer, bass goes deeper, no loss of high end detail.


----------



## morfic

Well, i just measured the DC Offset of the LT1364 in the I+ And it is at 28mV, almost 1.5x what Tangent recommends as a safe value to ensure you do not cook your phones.
 So for anyone interested in using this opamp, it's not a suitable choice in the I+ w/o changing the circuitry to compensate for the increased DC offset.

 For anyone interested in opamp rolling, stick to FET based opamps or check that the bipolar transistor's "Input Bias Current" is in the nA or less range (LME49720/LM4562 are this low and thus they work, FET based opamps are in pA range)
 The uA input bias current which is more typical for bipolar opamps can cause a large enough DC Offset to be worrysome.
 Data sheets are easily available via google, easy to double check this before using any bipolar opamps.

*LM4562/LME49720 are a notable exception, 1mV of DC offset is nothing to worry about.*


----------



## lazpete

morfic, thx for the interesting input. Gotta check the CV4014 in a near future, thats for sure.


----------



## bronth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *morfic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, i just measured the DC Offset of the LT1364 in the I+ And it is at 28mV, almost 1.5x what Tangent recommends as a safe value to ensure you do not cook your phones._

 

Interesting find. But IIRC LD I+ has separate transistors as its output chain (i.e. buffers) thus the op-amp itself actually doesn't work as a headphone driver. Any thoughts?


----------



## morfic

The buffers are not there to kill DC offset.

 I measured what came out of the headphone jack, not the chip's outputs to ground, so what i measured goes to your headphones, biasing your headphones at best and cooking the coil at worst.

 I just noted it here since i know it's a popular choice and that hardly anyone checks into this, and I too only learned about any of it because i wanted to build a bare bones amp (cmoy) to see if opamp difference are more noticable there, not sure on more noticable, just know i there too like the LME49720 best.

 Oh and the OPA2227 that i got with my I+ i tried in the cmoy and although it is a (di)FET, performed horribly, unstable, distorting, just a side note


----------



## PatOMalley

I read that the 2228 is more stable in cmoy than the 2227. In any event I like the LM4562 which I have been using for a couple of years in several things, cambridge 640p pho pre, project headbox, Bugle phono pre, now the LDi+.


----------



## morfic

I'm with you on the LM4562/LME49720, no matter how often i try opamps, i always end up with it, sounds best, and now i even know it is a "safe choice"


----------



## taso89

I used an LT1364 for a while in this amp and after reading the posts regarding DC offset, I put a spare LM4562 I had lying around. Didn't notice a diff. in SQ but if I can avoid cooking my cans I will do so


----------



## lazpete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *morfic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You ought to try some CV4014 Mullards.
_

 

tried to chase some down, hade some probs tough. Any idea where to find a pair or two?

 Br
 Lasse


----------



## lazpete

I'e accually reveresed my setup, and went back to the russian EF95's, and at first glance, listening to a live recording with Ryan Adams, they are a little "brighter". It might be the fact that they are not warmed up properly. The low end is definetly there.

 One thing ive been thinking about, is how tubes that are used and burned in, react to be used again, a few weeks later. Do they still need to be burmed in again, or is warming up sufficient?

 Br
 Lasse


----------



## morfic

I must admit, the tube differences are easier to hear on my HFI-780 than they ever were n my HD600.
 I think selling the MkII and HD600 to keep the I+ and get the HFI-780 was a smooth move.

 Did i mention that the Tung-Sol JTL-6AK5W are fighting my beloved EF91 for first place very very hard? Nice sounding tubes.


----------



## Morb

I'm now running the mullard cv4010 for a year... (I think these are the M8100 EF95? Correct me if I'm wrong.)

 They're nice but i'm wondering which my next tubes will be?
 My setup is a LDI+ with ath-a900

 I listen mostly to Pop/rock.
 And gaming from time to time.


----------



## morfic

You got some nice tubes already, hard to know your likes, so:

 CV4014/EF91 Mullards*
 Raytheon 6AK5
 Tung-Sol JTL-6AK5W*
 WE 408A

 In no particular order, but i switch most between the two marked with a *.

 EDIT: Do not forget "The Russians" 6Zh1P-EB/6J1P-EV (two ways to say the same thing/same tube)


----------



## Morb

tnx for those, i'll have a look at them..

 I just swapped back to my stock ones which were with the ldI+.

 They sound good too lol, a bit more lively then the m8100's that i have. I think


----------



## Calebcz

I've recently bought LD I+ but I have a problem with its sound with Sen HD555s. There is literally no bass. Until now I've had the cans connected directrly to M-audio transit which didn't have too much of a bass itself, however it was more pronounced than with Little Dot. I don't think the cans are to blame as they actually sound too bassy if I connect them to other sound card (eg. Audigy, Xonar or onboard audio). I also had just enough bass with an Cmoy amp. 
 Is there any chance different tubes would substantially change sound? If so, will you please recommend any to me? Thank you.


----------



## | Scorpio |

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Calebcz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've recently bought LD I+ but I have a problem with its sound with Sen HD555s. There is literally no bass. Until now I've had the cans connected directrly to M-audio transit which didn't have too much of a bass itself, however it was more pronounced than with Little Dot. I don't think the cans are to blame as they actually sound too bassy if I connect them to other sound card (eg. Audigy, Xonar or onboard audio). I also had just enough bass with an Cmoy amp. 
 Is there any chance different tubes would substantially change sound? If so, will you please recommend any to me? Thank you._

 

Senn 555's really have no bass. I'm not sure why you're getting more bass with other sources, but it probably isn't the Little Dot's fault.


----------



## roker

Ok ... I've tried going through this thread and it drove me nuts. Is there anything wrong about using the LT1364 op amps? What are the best tubes for a warmer sound? Where's the most reliable place to buy them


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *roker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok ... I've tried going through this thread and it drove me nuts. Is there anything wrong about using the LT1364 op amps? What are the best tubes for a warmer sound? Where's the most reliable place to buy them_

 

I have been using the LT1364 for a good while with no problems at all. For warm sounding tubes, I like the CBS Hytron 6AK5W. For nice bass, the Amperex 6AK5W. I have purchased most of mine from ebay.


----------



## cathare34

Hello everybody
 I have recently bought the great Gold Grado's 325i for a very good price.

 I look this whole post here and i am wondering i can have from someone at a great price the following AMP :

 - Little Dot LDI + and EF92's

 So my question can i use them with my Grados and what are the cheapest and easiest upgrades to go for, for getting the maximum out of my Grados headphones??

 Thanks for your answers and excuse for my English.


----------



## roker

I'd like to join in on tube rolling but DHL sucks.


----------



## cathare34

Hello everybody
 I have recently bought the great Gold Grado's 325i for a very good price.

 I look this whole post here and i am wondering i can have from someone at a great price the following AMP :

 - Little Dot LDI + and EF92's

 So my question can i use them with my Grados and what are the cheapest and easiest upgrades to go for, for getting the maximum out of my Grados headphones??

 Thanks for your answers and excuse for my English.


----------



## Bullseye

Yes you can it use with your Grados. I do so myself.


----------



## morfic

32ohm phones are a good match for the amp.


----------



## roker

wow, listening to this amp vanilla is heaven.

 My 125s sound like new headphones all together. 

 I can't wait to hear an improvement with tube rolling and opamp rolling.


----------



## Uri Cohen

I hope I'm posting this at the right place but I'm going to order this in about one-two months.

 They do offer tube upgrades for:

 # EF92 Tube Upgrade: +$20
 # WE408A Tube upgrade: +$50

 For people who know their tubes is it even worth the upgrade? 

 I'm planning to get this and for a DAC the Fubar II from Firestone. 

 Oh yeah, n00b question but how do you change a tube? Is it a socket or something like that?


----------



## morfic

I like Little Dot, but t hose prices are a rip off, the WE408A especially.
 Keep your eye on ebay, be patient, and you find tubes cheap.

 I do not believe in that matched tubes for $48 bull either.
 If they measure the same levels on output, all is good, and they all do, so go for the better deals, not the little dot or "matched" ripoffs, the matchers may as well sell you a "hospital grade powercord" with it. same people.
 I know yen had hospital grade sh...stuff.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HyperDuel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hope I'm posting this at the right place but I'm going to order this in about one-two months.

 They do offer tube upgrades for:

 # EF92 Tube Upgrade: +$20
 # WE408A Tube upgrade: +$50

 For people who know their tubes is it even worth the upgrade? 

 I'm planning to get this and for a DAC the Fubar II from Firestone. 

 Oh yeah, n00b question but how do you change a tube? Is it a socket or something like that?_


----------



## LeftyGorilla

I got mine with the EF92s and then bought some other tubes online. Even David (LD guy) told me I could do better price-wise on the WE408As...You might want to check out the FS board here, there have been some really nice deals on used LDI+.

 Tube (and opamp) rolling might not be "worth" it, but it is part of the joy. Tubes are socketed and somewhat easier to replace than a lightbulb. But you have to open up the amp and change some switches inside to set it for 1 of 3 different classes of tubes. It's all in the manual, but if you're getting the amp it's probably worth the time to read this entire thread...


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HyperDuel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hope I'm posting this at the right place but I'm going to order this in about one-two months.

 They do offer tube upgrades for:

 # EF92 Tube Upgrade: +$20
 # WE408A Tube upgrade: +$50

 For people who know their tubes is it even worth the upgrade? 

 I'm planning to get this and for a DAC the Fubar II from Firestone. 

 Oh yeah, n00b question but how do you change a tube? Is it a socket or something like that?_


----------



## roker

I want to buy an LT1364 opamp, but I have no idea which is the right one out these selections:

Linear Technology - Purchase Linear Products

 Is there anywhere else to buy them at?


----------



## PatOMalley

roker,

 LT1364CN8 is the one you want.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *roker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I want to buy an LT1364 opamp, but I have no idea which is the right one out these selections:

Linear Technology - Purchase Linear Products

 Is there anywhere else to buy them at?_


----------



## roker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PatOMalley* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_roker,

 LT1364CN8 is the one you want._

 

Thank you Mr. O'Malley!


----------



## roker

damn, they don't actually have any in stock. Where else can I buy this op amp from?


----------



## Oskari

Isn't LT1364CN8#PBF the same thing, just lead free? At least Digi-Key has this in stock.


----------



## | Scorpio |

Do you guys think any of these are fakes?


----------



## | Scorpio |

What are some nice sounding, warm/bassy tubes? The Sylvania gold brand's seem great, but I can't spend $70 on tubes right now. The Amperex 6AK5W sounds perfect for me, but I can't find it anywhere.


----------



## BauhausBold

the gold ones haha.. I have some gold pins that im selling. Where did you find the amperex??


----------



## | Scorpio |

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BauhausBold* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the gold ones haha.. I have some gold pins that im selling. Where did you find the amperex??_

 

If you lower the price of your Sylvania's by $30, I'll buy them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I heard about the Amperex tubes in this thread. I'm a moderate bass-head, so these seem really appealing to me. Does anyone know of any other good options?
 Edit: What about these?


----------



## Aynjell

I just dropped an OPA2134 in with the stock tubes. Man this is a great deal more excited sounding. not as much control and power over my ath's, but much stronger highs, much spacier mids, and the bass didn't change much, but every bit as powerful. I'd say if you got one sitting around to give it a try, guys!


----------



## Aynjell

I know for my GB-408A, I need to put it into the 408A positions, but for the Mullard M8161, those are EF92 compatible or what?


----------



## PatOMalley

WE408A 
 1. K1 and K2 set to the side of the “WE408A” text
 2. Make sure the jumper caps are removed from J1 and J2 (open circuit)

 6JI, 6AK5, 5654, WE403A/B, etc 
 1. K1 and K2 set to the side of the “6JI” text
 2. Make sure the jumper caps are removed from J1 and J2 (open circuit)

 EF91, EF92, CV131, CV138, etc 
 1. K1 and K2 set to the side of the “6JI” text
 2. Make sure the jumpers caps are in place over both J1 and J2 (short circuit)


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PatOMalley* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WE408A 
 1. K1 and K2 set to the side of the “WE408A” text
 2. Make sure the jumper caps are removed from J1 and J2 (open circuit)

 6JI, 6AK5, 5654, WE403A/B, etc 
 1. K1 and K2 set to the side of the “6JI” text
 2. Make sure the jumper caps are removed from J1 and J2 (open circuit)

 EF91, EF92, CV131, CV138, etc 
 1. K1 and K2 set to the side of the “6JI” text
 2. Make sure the jumpers caps are in place over both J1 and J2 (short circuit)_

 

I knew where to find that information, but thank you for providing it. I guess I was just trying to double check to make sure the Mullard M8161's are EF92 as I assumed. They are working now in my LD I+ as EF92. I'm not quite 100% satisfied with it, and I think the missing link is the op amp, both the stock and the OPA2134 I've got aren't really hitting the spot. I need to order up the LT1364CN8 or whatever it is and give that a try.

 Edit: I think the tubes are warming back up and the bass is coming in strong and powerful, and really makes up for what I lose by using G pads on my SR325i's. It sounds even better.


----------



## Aynjell

So what's the shortlist of opa's I should order on friday? I'm going to order a bundle of 'em on friday, and want to know which ones I should really be looking at. Ideas?

 I know the LT1364 should be fine, any other suggestions?


----------



## PatOMalley

I tried several but always wind up with LM4562.
 I set it /w .1uF stacked film caps to ground in the LD+


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PatOMalley* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I tried several but always wind up with LM4562.
 I set it /w .1uF stacked film caps to ground in the LD+




_

 

Can it be used without modifications? If not I don't want to mess with that one for now. I'm within my initial warranty period and diying my amp is bad juju.

 My shortlist at the moment is the LT1364, a second OPA2132 so I don't have to steal from my CMOY, and maybe a few off of tangent's opa review list. Wondering if there are some other good drop in units you can reccomend, I don't want to have to solder anything, just op amp rolling for now.


----------



## PatOMalley

the opamp is good as is.
 It works far better with the mod.
 You ca mod just the opamp and not it to group - that would preserve you waranty.
 Just buy two opamps, mod one, try it vs. the unmodded. Warranty safe.


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PatOMalley* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the opamp is good as is.
 It works far better with the mod.
 You ca mod just the opamp and not it to group - that would preserve you waranty.
 Just buy two opamps, mod one, try it vs. the unmodded. Warranty safe._

 

What part number do you use for the caps? Are there any grounding methods we can use that don't require soldering to the board? And can you solder the caps directly to the opa without much issue?


----------



## Aynjell

Is this okay?

Digi-Key - LT1364CN8#PBF-ND (Manufacturer - LT1364CN8#PBF)


----------



## PatOMalley

you don't have to solder to board, just solder the cap or caps to the opamp.
 have a llok at my page for pictures: Little Dot I+ mods

 I think the Digikey number for the cap is P3103
 You can get a Blackgate .1uF cap that works as well.
 Look for stacked film poly caps @ .1uF. They are small.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aynjell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What part number do you use for the caps? Are there any grounding methods we can use that don't require soldering to the board? And can you solder the caps directly to the opa without much issue?_


----------



## mistertoony

I am very new to all of this and am planning to purchase the LDI+ as my first headphone amp for a pair of Denon D2000s. From what I've gathered so far:

 * the upgrade options are over-priced (so I am getting it stock)
 * the LM4562NA upgrade - good for clarity (is it difficult to install? where can i get more information on this? where can i purchase?)
 * WE408A tube upgrade (can anyone recommend a source to buy this from? again, is this difficult to install/configure?)


----------



## Uri Cohen

I just want to post that I was able to get some NOS SYLVANIA GOLD BRAND 408a matched pair off ebay today for a good price. Will post impressions next week. I want to see if they are better than my Western Electric 408as.


----------



## morfic

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HyperDuel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just want to post that I was able to get some NOS SYLVANIA GOLD BRAND 408a matched pair off ebay today for a good price. Will post impressions next week. I want to see if they are better than my Western Electric 408as._

 

Describe the differences (if any) in detail, i am curious now.
 I really didn't like my JHS 6AK5/5654 Sylvanias (bright silver plates), but now after hearing the JHS 6AK5W/5654 Sylvanias and the JAN 6AK5W/5654 Sylvanias am curious about the 408 from Sylvania again.

 What's the difference on the 408A/B again, i have WE 408As here.

 Out of curiosity, what's "a good price" to you?


----------



## Uri Cohen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *morfic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Describe the differences (if any) in detail, i am curious now.
 I really didn't like my JHS 6AK5/5654 Sylvanias (bright silver plates), but now after hearing the JHS 6AK5W/5654 Sylvanias and the JAN 6AK5W/5654 Sylvanias am curious about the 408 from Sylvania again.

 What's the difference on the 408A/B again, i have WE 408As here.

 Out of curiosity, what's "a good price" to you?_

 

I'm using the we408a like yourself. This amp I don't believe supports the 408b but it does support the 403a/b stuff.

 The main reason why I purchase these tubes because they are well reguarded as the best of the 408a family.

 I think people paid more for these tubes, considering earlier threads said that these are uncommon tubes.

 Here's the ebay auction:

SYLVANIA GOLD BRAND GB 408A TUBES, MATCHED PAIR, NOS - eBay (item 300372450157 end time Dec-06-09 16:05:27 PST)

 Now the deal is that people say the tubes are better than the we408a, we'll see about that since ATM I do enjoy the nice soundstage these tubes gives.


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HyperDuel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm using the we408a like yourself. This amp I don't believe supports the 408b but it does support the 403a/b stuff.

 The main reason why I purchase these tubes because they are well reguarded as the best of the 408a family.

 I think people paid more for these tubes, considering earlier threads said that these are uncommon tubes.

 Here's the ebay auction:

SYLVANIA GOLD BRAND GB 408A TUBES, MATCHED PAIR, NOS - eBay (item 300372450157 end time Dec-06-09 16:05:27 PST)

 Now the deal is that people say the tubes are better than the we408a, we'll see about that since ATM I do enjoy the nice soundstage these tubes gives._

 

I have GB 408A, I prefer Mullard M8161. They run cooler and sound better to me, but then again Iv'e been listening to them almost exclusively since I got my tubes. I'll try the 408a sometime this week. Still haven't gotten around to ordering up some new op amps. There are so many great ones available that I need to try.


----------



## morfic

I saw that auction earlier, but i am still busy going through the 40 tubes i got for $25.
 Not the prestine NOS type, but a nice batch of GE JAN-, GE JG-, GE *****, RCA JRC-, Raytheon JRP-, Sylvania JHS- Ws and JAN- Ws, Tung Sold JTL- and TS-
 So i passed on it.
 Lot's of fun tubes in the batch. Plenty of Multiple pairs, now i wish i had bought all 50 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I too thought 408B are not supported, i thought i saw someone list them a few posts back, that's why i asked.


 I am stuck on my LME49720 opamp, there is more fun in tubes for me now, also easier to replace them.


----------



## Uri Cohen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aynjell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have GB 408A, I prefer Mullard M8161. They run cooler and sound better to me, but then again Iv'e been listening to them almost exclusively since I got my tubes. I'll try the 408a sometime this week. Still haven't gotten around to ordering up some new op amps. There are so many great ones available that I need to try._

 

I will try out the Mullards stuff in the future. I'm still very happy with my we408as ATM (good soundstage, better bass, improves the lower/upper mids which is great) so when I get the GB408a I will post my impressions.

 I'm happy with my op amp ATM but I might change it in the future. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *morfic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I saw that auction earlier, but i am still busy going through the 40 tubes i got for $25.
 Not the prestine NOS type, but a nice batch of GE JAN-, GE JG-, GE *****, RCA JRC-, Raytheon JRP-, Sylvania JHS- Ws and JAN- Ws, Tung Sold JTL- and TS-
 So i passed on it.
 Lot's of fun tubes in the batch. Plenty of Multiple pairs, now i wish i had bought all 50 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I too thought 408B are not supported, i thought i saw someone list them a few posts back, that's why i asked.


 I am stuck on my LME49720 opamp, there is more fun in tubes for me now, also easier to replace them._

 

I read my Little Dot manual and it doesn't say that the 408b is supported. 

 That's a lot of tubes, have fun with those.


----------



## Aynjell

I'm going to get better impression of the sylvania's. It's true they're radically different from the mullards. Going to go have a cig, and let them warm up while I smoke. Come back and see what I think.


----------



## Feather225

I am getting one of these with both tube and opamp upgrades... This is gonna be my first hybrid amp listening experience.. I have a ATL OTL MKIII tube amp and a M^3 SS, but I heard Hybrid works the best with low impedance full size headphones such as K701.. Will comment on it soon.


----------



## Aynjell

So far my impressions are stronger highs, stronger lows, but it feels like something about the mids has changed and I'm not sure I'll like it. Getting used to it still, we'll see what affect it has.


----------



## Uri Cohen

Just got the GB sylvanias and ATM there is not too much differences between these and the WE ones, but remember that these GB tubes are NOS so they been barely been used. I will have to run them in for a few days for my final answer. So far it looks like the highs are a little stronger.


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HyperDuel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got the GB sylvanias and ATM there is not too much differences between these and the WE ones, but remember that these GB tubes are NOS so they been barely been used. I will have to run them in for a few days for my final answer. So far it looks like the highs are a little stronger._

 



 Are these the Gold Pin GB's


----------



## Frank I

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A good and trusted source for Little Dot tubes would be Yen Audio on ebay, all of the tubes sold by YA are matched pairs which in my experience is very important in terms of portraying an accurate and believable soundstage. It looks like they're stocking some 408A tubes just for the I+. Highly recommended place to start looking at LD upgrade tubes if you're just starting out in the tube amp hobby.

http://stores.ebay.com/Yen-Audio_Lit...QQftidZ2QQtZkm_

 

Yen gone. He went bad. Had alot of issues and wasnt shipping goods or returning emails. There is another seller in Phonenix selling the Little Dot tubes but wont take paypal so I think its Yen


----------



## Uri Cohen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trapper32* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are these the Gold Pin GB's_

 

Yes.


----------



## Uri Cohen

Report after 30-40 hours:

 The Sylvania GB-408a tubes are a lot better than the Western Electrics. I didn't even notice how airy the Western Electrics were until I burn in more of the Sylvanias and keep testing out both pairs of tubes. When I try out the Western Electrics after using the Sylvania I'm not engaged with the music and the music itself wasn't that interesting.

 I was using The Clash Sandinista! album in FLAC and I'm sure that it is not the remastered album. 

 The midrange and the highs are a lot better than the Western Electrics.

 I will do one more report on this but I'm sure that these Gold Brand tubes will destroy the Western Electrics.


----------



## john57

I am enjoying my Little Dot 1+ that I just received and I am going to stick with the 408A tubes. Thanks for the tubes review.


----------



## unl3a5h3d

I just bought a I+ and have been reading up on tube rolling options and I know it takes the 6J1, EF92, and WE408A, but it says "as well as there equivalents". What are there equivalents? Is there like a wiki page or something that tells what all tubes are "equivalent"? Thanks.


----------



## john57

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *unl3a5h3d* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just bought a I+ and have been reading up on tube rolling options and I know it takes the 6J1, EF92, and WE408A, but it says "as well as there equivalents". What are there equivalents? Is there like a wiki page or something that tells what all tubes are "equivalent"? Thanks._

 

The Little Dot I+ includes the following tube-rolling options (as well as their equivalents):

 6JI, WE403A/B, GE5654, M8100, CV4010, EF95

 EF92, CV131

 WE408A


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *john57* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Little Dot I+ includes the following tube-rolling options (as well as their equivalents):

 6JI, WE403A/B, GE5654, M8100, CV4010, EF95

 EF92, CV131

 WE408A_

 


*EF95*- EF95 / 5654 / CV4010 / M8100 / 6096 / 403A/B / 6J1 / 6AK5 / CV850 / 6J1P-EV / 6ZH1P-EV

*EF91 / EF92*- EF91 / CV138 / CV4014 / / 6AM6 / EF92 / CV131 / M8161 / 6CQ6 / W77

*408A*- (Western Electric, Tung Sol, Sylvania etc.) & 6028


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trapper32* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are these the Gold Pin GB's_

 

Gold pin is not the same as gold brand. I'm not even sure if the gold brand have gold pins, but I believe they do not.


----------



## HeatFan12

This amp and this thread have been around for a while and it's good to see interest in this little gem.
 I have to say that I have had mine for a while and tried many, many tubes with it. The 408A is not the "be all end all" of tubes for this amp. Many tubes sound great. Try some nice EF91s or M8161s. You want crystal clarity then put some GE 5Star 5654s in there.
 It seems that a lot of folks get this amp, throw some 408As in there and get tired and move on. Possibilities are plenty. Experiment with different families and varieties. How often are you going to purchase an amp with the possibility of rolling three families of tubes at an incredible price. Don't let the 408A bug bite you. I picked up some 6096CTs for about $7 a pair and they are slammin'.
 And yes, I have various 408As and have tried them and they sound good no doubt, but my Tung Sol 6AK5W, Siemens 6AK5W and M8161 and Mullard EF91 give them a run, and for rock, they just plain dominate the spectrum....

 Versatility and great sound...


----------



## cristox

(EF91 = 6AM6 = Z77 = 6F12 = 8D3 = N79 = CV138 = 6064 = M8083 = CV4014)

 (EF92 = 6CQ6 = W77 = 6F21 = 9D6 = CV131 = 6065 = M8161 = CV4015)

 (EF95 = 6AK5 = 6j1p = 6069 = 6F32V = 6F32 = 5654 = 6ZH1P = M8100= 403A [=408a {heads up, higher heater voltages}])


----------



## john57

My own review of the 408A tubes....
 After listening to the four pairs of 408A tubes, GE, WE, Sylvania Gold Brand and finally the Tung Sol. I will then write about the best of the 408A family of tubes. I am using my Sennheiser HD555 that has the same drivers as the HD595 and my new HD380 headphone listening different types of classical music, symphonic and vocal music I came to a general agreement. My favorite of the 408A is the gold pins GE (General Electric) and it has great transparency, detail and soundstage. My second is the WE (Western Electric) with great sound stage but not to the level of detail with the GE tube. Next was the Sylvania Gold Brand with great detail as the GE but not with the transparency or the soundstage and this is the least musical of the 408A tubes and this version does not have the golden pins. Last the Tung Sol is quite musical but with very high microphonics meaning if someone was yelling in the room the tube will pick it up. Also the tube heaters were very slow to warn up and the filaments barely give any light and there was indication that my Little Dot was under stress and I was not conformable using this tube in my amp. The GE has the lowest microphonics and the WE and the Sylvania close behind. I do not use the tapping test for microphonics which can damage tubes in operation but by a light rubbing the tips. It seems that the tube with the lowest microphonics sound the best for me overall in this case. Here is the picture of my GE “reactor” tube in operation in my Little Dot 1+ amp at this link.

Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket 

 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aynjell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Gold pin is not the same as gold brand. I'm not even sure if the gold brand have gold pins, but I believe they do not._

 

 You are correct in that they are not the same. However there are Syvania Gold Brand both with and without the Gold Pins. I and several others on here have the Gold Brand Gold Pin version. I have not heard the non Gold Pin version but others who have heard them, have stated that the non Gold Pin were rebranded tubes and didn't have the same SQ as the Gold Pins.


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeatFan12* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This amp and this thread have been around for a while and it's good to see interest in this little gem.
 I have to say that I have had mine for a while and tried many, many tubes with it. The 408A is not the "be all end all" of tubes for this amp. Many tubes sound great. Try some nice EF91s or M8161s. You want crystal clarity then put some GE 5Star 5654s in there.
 It seems that a lot of folks get this amp, throw some 408As in there and get tired and move on. Possibilities are plenty. Experiment with different families and varieties. How often are you going to purchase an amp with the possibility of rolling three families of tubes at an incredible price. Don't let the 408A bug bite you. I picked up some 6096CTs for about $7 a pair and they are slammin'.
 And yes, I have various 408As and have tried them and they sound good no doubt, but my Tung Sol 6AK5W, Siemens 6AK5W and M8161 and Mullard EF91 give them a run, and for rock, they just plain dominate the spectrum....

 Versatility and great sound...




_

 

Right on!! This is a really versatile little gem of an amp. Everything depends so much on your source, cans, musical genre, mood and of course your own ears. Right now I'm listening to it with some inexpensive 6J1P-EV's and they sound really great. The only caveat...tube rolling can be addictive and hazardous to your wallet.


----------



## eddyz

I just recieved this amp with stock tubes. It sounds great , but im sure with new tubes and opamp rolling I can get more out of it.

 I have been noticing a lot of static noise after reaching 40+ in volume. The unit is next to a monitor , but it still produced small static noise when i placed it near the monitor.. is it the cable/power source fault? With the opamp's listed in this thread, will it reduce the static noise?


----------



## john57

I have mine next to a 19 inch flat monitor and have no issues. What monitor are you using flat or tube? Is the static on both channels? Is the source still powered up when this happens? If it is on one channel you can swap tubes to see if the problems follows or not. You can move the amp one feet if possible to see if the static changes. I do not think it is a opamp issue. You just have to reduce the variabilities to pinpoint what the issue is.


----------



## Emile

Where are you guys finding (matched) Little Dot I+ tubes these days? From one-off sellers on eBay / B&S forum? Or are there any trusted sellers still out there (Yen audio is no more?). 

 I've been looking for WE408A's for a few weeks and while tubes are available here and there, I have not seen a single matched set. Is getting a matched pair too much to ask?


----------



## john57

O course there is matched 408A pairs that you can get for about $25 by WE( Western Electric) or NE ( Northern Electric) this is one source.

https://www.tubeworld.com/400a723a.htm


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Emile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where are you guys finding (matched) Little Dot I+ tubes these days? From one-off sellers on eBay / B&S forum? Or are there any trusted sellers still out there (Yen audio is no more?). 

 I've been looking for WE408A's for a few weeks and while tubes are available here and there, I have not seen a single matched set. Is getting a matched pair too much to ask?_


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Emile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where are you guys finding (matched) Little Dot I+ tubes these days? From one-off sellers on eBay / B&S forum? Or are there any trusted sellers still out there (Yen audio is no more?). 

 I've been looking for WE408A's for a few weeks and while tubes are available here and there, I have not seen a single matched set. Is getting a matched pair too much to ask?_

 

Maybe ask David at Little Dot if matched tubes make a difference in his amps. IIRC his amps are all self biasing and matching doesn't make alot or any difference.


----------



## iamthecheese

I ordered a bunch of tubes from here: Antique Electronic Supply
 for pretty nice prices. While there isn't a guarantee on which exact tubes you get I ended up with two mullard ef92s(not matched), and they sound the same to me, along with the other pairs.

 Here's my invoice

 Item Description Qty. Total
 T-5654_6AK5W 5654/6AK5W - PENTODE, SHARP CUTOFF, RF 2 6.32
 T-6028_408A 6028/408A - PENTODE, SHARP CUTOFF, RF 2 2.56
 T-6AK5_EF95 6AK5/EF95 - PENTODE, SHARP CUT-OFF 2 7.36
 T-6CQ6_EF92 6CQ6/EF92 - PENTODE 2 5.12


----------



## HeatFan12

Nice take on the 408a john57...Great to see different perspectives with all the combos and phones....


  Quote:


 Right on!! This is a really versatile little gem of an amp. Everything depends so much on your source, cans, musical genre, mood and of course your own ears. Right now I'm listening to it with some inexpensive 6J1P-EV's and they sound really great. The only caveat...tube rolling can be addictive and hazardous to your wallet. 
 

Indeed Trapper32.....Hazardous for sure....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Rollin', Rollin' Rollin'...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 My 408a collection have been getting no love recently.....Fired up a pair of Tung Sol 6028s w/ LT1364 op-amp and some Ultrasones...Awesome pairing....SWEEET








 I had been running these for a while...Love em'- 









 Roll on guys.....Up next---








 This amp just keeps going and going and going...


 Three families of tubes, great amp, great price, great service...Happy 2010...


----------



## Emile

Thanks a lot. I went ahead and ordered a pair of WE408A's from tubeworld but will definitely check out the other sources. It's going to be hard keep from stockpiling a bunch of different tubes


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Emile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks a lot. I went ahead and ordered a pair of WE408A's from tubeworld but will definitely check out the other sources. It's going to be hard keep from stockpiling a bunch of different tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Stock piling when feasable is a great idea...I bought this amp when it first came out and the prices of tubes were way lower than they are now...So I stockpiled back then....Check ebay periodically, some nice sets do come up at a great price...

 ENJOY...


----------



## St3ve

Hi everyone,
 Not had my LD I+ long, and have it with the WE408A tubes. Got some NOS Mullard M8100's of Ebay and hopefully they will turn up soon. Very tempted to try and get hold of a new op amp for it too, but am unsure as to how complex opamp rolling is. I will post some impressions of WE408A vs M8100 (paired with grado 325is and apogee duet) when the mullards get here.


----------



## lazpete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *St3ve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi everyone,
 Not had my LD I+ long, and have it with the WE408A tubes. Got some NOS Mullard M8100's of Ebay and hopefully they will turn up soon. Very tempted to try and get hold of a new op amp for it too, but am unsure as to how complex opamp rolling is. I will post some impressions of WE408A vs M8100 (paired with grado 325is and apogee duet) when the mullards get here._

 

Its not hard at all, cuz I did it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I did change the stock amp for a LM4562NA and there is no turning back!

 Lasse


----------



## St3ve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lazpete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Its not hard at all, cuz I did it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I did change the stock amp for a LM4562NA and there is no turning back!

 Lasse_

 

Yeah? sorry for the noobishness but is it a case of "plugging" a new one in or does it involve soldering? 

 Thanks, Steve


----------



## lazpete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *St3ve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah? sorry for the noobishness but is it a case of "plugging" a new one in or does it involve soldering? 

 Thanks, Steve_

 

No soldering, its a socket to put it in. You have to be careful not to break the legs of the op-amp, but its not a big deal!

 Lasse


----------



## St3ve

Brilliant, thanks for your help Lasse. I will definitely give that a shot, anything that can make this great little amp greater is great!


----------



## lazpete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *St3ve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Brilliant, thanks for your help Lasse. I will definitely give that a shot, anything that can make this great little amp greater is great!_

 

NP, just make sure to get a dual amp made for socket use. There are ones made for soldering, and if you get a single amp, you need two and an adapter to fit in the dual slot.

 To see what I meen, visit https://www1.elfa.se/elfa~eu_en/b2b/start.do and search for LM4562. You will be presented with two variants, one for soldering, and one for socket. The one with the long legs is the one you want 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Lasse


----------



## St3ve

Nice one, Reckon these ought to do it? Dual LM4562NA Opamps x 2 (DIP) with DIL sockets on eBay (end time 05-Jan-10 10:28:53 GMT) 

 Once again, thanks for your help.

 Steve


----------



## lazpete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *St3ve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice one, Reckon these ought to do it? Dual LM4562NA Opamps x 2 (DIP) with DIL sockets on eBay (end time 05-Jan-10 10:28:53 GMT) 

 Once again, thanks for your help.

 Steve_

 

Sure!

 Lasse


----------



## Aynjell

I'm ordering Op Amps, sometime this week, I finally got the itch... and I'm hoping that prior to my recieving the op amps, I can come up with an enjoyable pad setup for my SR325i.

 LT1364CN8
 LM4562
 LM4562 + 2xP3103
 OPA2132PA
 OPA2227PA

 Going over this thread, I've found several op amps people have said they liked. The first to come off the list was the AD797 just because of price, but other than that, I'm looking at a nice long list of op amps that should really hurt the pocket too much. Any that you guys think are just a waste of time and a few bucks? If there's stuff that should be added, I'd also be interested in that. I don't quite want to get into modding just yet, but I do want to get some rolling done, perhaps if I get the amp sounding closer to what I want in sound I'll mod to tweak it a bit, but for now I'm content with just rolling. I'm trying the opa with soldered on caps for kicks, though. It's an extra 6$, so why not.


----------



## lazpete

My very limited experience with different op-amps, is basically this; with the stock op (don't know the modal name), the tube rolling effect was kinda limited, but as soon as I got the LT1364CN8 in, the difference of the pre tubes where a lot less subtle. Why, I don't know, but it might be a matter of transparency, it seem to make very little to affect the signal. So I haven't bother rolling any more op-amps.
 The cans i'm using daily, is stock K601 and stock ATH-A900.

 Back from the gym, a spin on the turntable with Van tha man's Moondance before dinner 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Lasse


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lazpete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My very limited experience with different op-amps, is basically this; with the stock op (don't know the modal name), the tube rolling effect was kinda limited, but as soon as I got the LT1364CN8 in, the difference of the pre tubes where a lot less subtle. Why, I don't know, but it might be a matter of transparency, it seem to make very little to affect the signal. So I haven't bother rolling any more op-amps.
 The cans i'm using daily, is stock K601 and stock ATH-A900.

 Back from the gym, a spin on the turntable with Van tha man's Moondance before dinner 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Lasse_

 


 Well, so far nobody's got anything to say against any of my items, I'm going to be spending all of 40$ on the whole lot, so really no harm done. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also shopping for tube dampers.


----------



## St3ve

I would interested in any tubes/opamps that you find "synergise" particularly well with your 325is aynjell, as i too am rockin' silver beasties (occasionally with G-cushions too). I am currently running WE408As, but have ordered some mullards because i have read that they thicken the bottom/midrange out nicely.


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *St3ve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would interested in any tubes/opamps that you find "synergise" particularly well with your 325is aynjell, as i too am rockin' silver beasties (occasionally with G-cushions too). I am currently running WE408As, but have ordered some mullards because i have read that they thicken the bottom/midrange out nicely._

 

I am having a hard time specifically with pads. I just washed my L Cushions, and they're so soft that all I get on my ears is the body of the headphone. The G cushions rob the can of much needed bass and efficiency, requiring double the volume to get it to suond right, but this ends up bothering the woman more, hardly ideal, maybe trimming the G cushions a bit might help, but I'm not brave enough yet.

 So far, comfies are the best compromise of sound quality, efficiency, and comfort, really only taking away a bit of the treble, but I am thinking that the answer to my prayers is a quarter modded comfy, but I may end up buying some of those ass ugly sennheiser pads just to test them. I hear huge differences between the different pads... but if you have to ration out how much you use the can because it hurts your ears so much, it's just not worth it.

 I just ordered some Peek Hal-O 7 tube dampers, and I'm looking forward to seeing what impact they have on tubes as well. Hopefully, friday I can also order up a absolute collection of op amps. I'm really looking forward to trying this stuff out, I am.


----------



## St3ve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aynjell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am having a hard time specifically with pads. I just washed my L Cushions, and they're so soft that all I get on my ears is the body of the headphone. The G cushions rob the can of much needed bass and efficiency, requiring double the volume to get it to suond right, but this ends up bothering the woman more, hardly ideal, maybe trimming the G cushions a bit might help, but I'm not brave enough yet.

 So far, comfies are the best compromise of sound quality, efficiency, and comfort, really only taking away a bit of the treble, but I am thinking that the answer to my prayers is a quarter modded comfy, but I may end up buying some of those ass ugly sennheiser pads just to test them. I hear huge differences between the different pads... but if you have to ration out how much you use the can because it hurts your ears so much, it's just not worth it.

 I just ordered some Peek Hal-O 7 tube dampers, and I'm looking forward to seeing what impact they have on tubes as well. Hopefully, friday I can also order up a absolute collection of op amps. I'm really looking forward to trying this stuff out, I am. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You'll have to update this thread as to how you get on with your opamps/dampers etc. as it will no doubt better inform me as to how spend (cough*waste*) more of my money. I have gone back to my bowls as i have found my G cushions (bought on an expensive whim) to act as you describe - Lows and low mids disappear. I tried tape modding the G cushions but it didn't seem to have much affect. Maybe there is a magical tube/opamp configuration that will balance the 325is/gcush combo (although i am not holding my breath).


----------



## Aynjell

I'll be sure to let everybody know. My first stop once my op amps arrive will be to test the LT1364 with my GB 408A's. Supposedly they're simply amazing, and my tubes I belive were once Hottyson's. I got mine from leftygorilla, who had previous trades for sylvania gb408a's with hottyson... so I should have the exact same tubes that impressed him so much... albeit with a few hundred more hours on the dial. They're really consistent now, barring the occasional fizzle, but I believe the fizzle is actually from my cell phone. I can hear when my girlfriend is caling. Kind of neat. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The microphonic effects of vacuum tubes are just plain fun to play with. I love tapping the tubes and hearing the long lasting ring.

 I'm really wanting to go the extra mile (while retaining the stock factors that allow me to maintain my warranty, also for other reasons)... any thing else we can tweak?

 Operation Amplifier
 Vacuum Tubes
 Vacuum Tube Dampers
 Power Cable (I am not willing to tuoch this with a 150$ amp)
 Signal Cabling (Very possible I'll go after this once done with everything else)
 Gain Settings

 Hey, that's something I want to discuss, has anybody played with the gain setting? I understand some op amps operate better with higher gain than lower. For example, I chose to go with a 3.5 gain due to the wider volume sweep on the stock op amp, and because with a gain of 7, I can get to about 10 or 15 before it gets fatiguing. I'd really like to see some discussion on the effects of changing the gain, which do you use? Half gain or full , and why(3.5, 7.0)?

 To start with, I chose 3.5 initially because with 7.0 I was having serious issues with volume control, the knob was just too sensitive. After swapping to a gain of 3.5, though, I noticed considerably less noise (like, going from a 90% black background to just hearing nothing from the cans without sound playing.) I'd never heard that before, nothing... at least not when the amp was on. The difference between on and off was inaudible (after initial warmup). So, lower noise floor, better volume control... I haven't really found any different in sound quality, except being able to more easily acquire the perfect volume for my listening needs... 

 Anywho, discussion, prz!


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *St3ve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would interested in any tubes/opamps that you find "synergise" particularly well with your 325is aynjell, as i too am rockin' silver beasties (occasionally with G-cushions too). I am currently running WE408As, but have ordered some mullards because i have read that they thicken the bottom/midrange out nicely._

 

My experiences show that this is the case. With an opa2132, it's downright opressive.


----------



## lescanard

I was thrilled this week to finally get my LD I+ and have jumped hard right into it. I bought this to compliment my MKIII - which I love and can use most of the 40+ tubes I have accumulated in both. This is primarily the amp I'll use to drive my Grados and Denons - while my MKIII and k701s are a match made in heaven. I bought and rolled in the LT1362 OpAmp tonight - only spent a little time with the stock one - I'm all about changing it up. Won an eBay auction for a LM4562 tonight so that's on its way.

 Anyway - a very favorite tube of mine with the MKIII is the Mullard EF91/6AM6 so that's my current set-up with the LD I+. I have found a total of 9 of these the past few months for anywhere from $2-$5 each on eBay. Talk about warm, tubey and a really pronounced bass - these really take any edge off of my Grados and just take the Denons to an ocean deep level - incredible soundstage. Try 'em if you can get your hands on them.


----------



## HeatFan12

I totally agree lescanard...The EF91 is one of my favorites with this amp. On page 34 (post #506) I also posted a pic and I had been using it for a long while before giving my 6028s a little love....Awesome sounding tubes those EF91s...

 In reference to opamps I have stuck with the LT1364 for a good while. So many different ones to tailor to your liking...


 Aynjell, I tried high gain (7) briefly but went back to gain 3. On 7 the volume pot is too loose and there was no difference with the same cans I was using as when I used 3. I only use cans with 64ohm or less with the I+ and on 3 my volume pot does not exceed 11 o'clock on the dial....


----------



## deltaspirit

I like mine with the mullard m8161's, should I look into anything else? Heatfan have you had a chance to compare with m8161 with your ef91's?


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *deltaspirit* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I like mine with the mullard m8161's, should I look into anything else? Heatfan have you had a chance to compare with m8161 with your ef91's?_

 

I like my Mullard's as well. In fact, they're a serious boost to the grado + g cushion setup (in fact, I'd say that the mullard's enables such a combo quite well, dare I say, synergy?). You get your bass back, and it still sounds somewhat balanced. I'm going to test the ATH-AD700's with the combo, I'd be surprised if my MDR-V6 sounded good with it, but I guess I don't know. It's coming along good. Unfortunately, I won't be able to order op amps until tomorrow morning. Paycheck will be in before I get to work, and if I get some down time I'll order 6 or 7 opa's from digikey. My Peek Halo's are still incoming, can't wait to get 'em.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lescanard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was thrilled this week to finally get my LD I+ and have jumped hard right into it. I bought this to compliment my MKIII - which I love and can use most of the 40+ tubes I have accumulated in both. This is primarily the amp I'll use to drive my Grados and Denons - while my MKIII and k701s are a match made in heaven. I bought and rolled in the LT1362 OpAmp tonight - only spent a little time with the stock one - I'm all about changing it up. Won an eBay auction for a LM4562 tonight so that's on its way.

 Anyway - a very favorite tube of mine with the MKIII is the Mullard EF91/6AM6 so that's my current set-up with the LD I+. I have found a total of 9 of these the past few months for anywhere from $2-$5 each on eBay. Talk about warm, tubey and a really pronounced bass - these really take any edge off of my Grados and just take the Denons to an ocean deep level - incredible soundstage. Try 'em if you can get your hands on them._

 

Once I get bored of my opamps I'll be ordering some 6AM6's then. They look beautiful. So far I'm a big fan of my current mullards, rebrands or not, they're pretty, they're big, and they sound big. I love them.


----------



## john57

I am also waiting for my LM4562NA to arrive and it would be interesting to see how close our opinions are. I did try the OPA2107 as you noticed in my previous post. I just connected my CAL Sigma ll DAC that I have not used in a long time to my computer setup. I was successful in getting a lock with the M-Audio Audiophile 2496 audio card spdif output and get the computer windows media player to redirect to the spdif output. The CAL DAC gives a stronger and brighter presentation to the music. However it takes about 30 mins to warm up the CAL DAC so that it will sound clean and I am waiting to see if I can win an action on some cheap Telefunken 12AX7 tube or maybe something else. The CAL Sigma ll DAC uses the two sides for the two channels on the same tube. I did not know that you can EF91 tubes at first since the Little Dot 1+ manual just mention the EF92 and the EF95 tubes you are using the EF91 tube and so others on a different web site. You gave me valuable information about the Mullard EF91 being bass heavy and may not be a good tube to use for the Denon headphones since it already have good bass. I am curious to see what similar opinions we can reach once our op-amps arrive. 

 P.S. In case for anyone that did not hear. The Little Dot web site is now up at 

www.littledot.net


----------



## Aynjell

I got 4 opa's ordered:

 LT1364, LM4562, OPA2227, and OPA2228. I am sure only two of these might be decent but from what I'm seeing only the LT1364 is a real serious upgrade for this amp, aside from the LM4562. I decided not to order the caps because I don't want to do that without doing it right and I'm unwilling to mod the amp just yet. I'll be sure to post reviews of what I hear... and if I hear something I like in the LM4562, I may take the plunge.

 So at this time, I in theory have 12 different configurations, well 24 if you really want to count with dampers on and off... but I'm not sure I'm ready to believe (without hearing) that there is or isn't a sound difference. Knowing how microphonic these little tubes seem to be especially in this amp, I may very well find a very real sound improvement, but we'll see.

 I have 3 sets of tubes:
 Stock 6JI
 Mullard M8161 Small Shield (Current favourites)
 Sylvania Gold Brand 

 I'll have 4 OPA, listed above, plus the stock one, but I'm obviously not impressed by it.


----------



## john57

I let you know how the LM4562 works out. I did try the OPA2107 and while it made the bass end a bit tighter and highs a bit smoother I preferred the stock op-am which is the MC33078 because it was a bit more musical and has a natural midrange. 
 By the way the way if I need to add a cap I would get a extension dip socket so that I would not damage the main socket on the circuit board. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aynjell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got 4 opa's ordered:

 LT1364, LM4562, OPA2227, and OPA2228. I am sure only two of these might be decent but from what I'm seeing only the LT1364 is a real serious upgrade for this amp, aside from the LM4562. I decided not to order the caps because I don't want to do that without doing it right and I'm unwilling to mod the amp just yet. I'll be sure to post reviews of what I hear... and if I hear something I like in the LM4562, I may take the plunge.

 So at this time, I in theory have 12 different configurations, well 24 if you really want to count with dampers on and off... but I'm not sure I'm ready to believe (without hearing) that there is or isn't a sound difference. Knowing how microphonic these little tubes seem to be especially in this amp, I may very well find a very real sound improvement, but we'll see.

 I have 3 sets of tubes:
 Stock 6JI
 Mullard M8161 Small Shield (Current favourites)
 Sylvania Gold Brand 

 I'll have 4 OPA, listed above, plus the stock one, but I'm obviously not impressed by it._


----------



## Aynjell

Surprising turn of events:

 My Peek HAL-O 7's are at my apartment now. Girlfriend got the package today, very quick shipping. Providing the package has the appropriate contents, then they'll get a really good thumbs up from me. Not sure it's worth the regular retail price but I more or less got them half off when I ordered 'em.


----------



## St3ve

I have just whacked in an LM4562 and early impressions are good, it sounds quite neutral, and less congested than the stock. I had read that it is very fast and really helps facilitate tube rolling. I intend to do a bit of a write up detailing my experiences when my final (for now) set of tubes turn up. At the moment i have:

 Western electric 408A
 Valve electronic M8100 (auctioned to me as Mullards, but nevermind)

 I am just waiting on some small shield Mullard m8161.

 This thread is amusing because as you browse through it you keep seeing fresh intakes (including myself) of people who really get into tube/opamp rolling. What a great little amp it is that makes people so consistently obsessed!!!


----------



## St3ve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aynjell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Surprising turn of events:

 My Peek HAL-O 7's are at my apartment now. Girlfriend got the package today, very quick shipping. Providing the package has the appropriate contents, then they'll get a really good thumbs up from me. Not sure it's worth the regular retail price but I more or less got them half off when I ordered 'em._

 

V. interested in any sonic differences you observe aynjell


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *St3ve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_V. interested in any sonic differences you observe aynjell_

 

I'm not a golden ear, but I'll try. I only recently moved back to my mullards so I'm still a bit raw to them. I'll put them on when I get home, listen for a few hours each day over the weekend, and then get back to you guys probably monday. I'll restrict my usage to my SR325i this weekend to avoid any cnofusion.


----------



## lescanard

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *john57* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You gave me valuable information about the Mullard EF91 being bass heavy and may not be a good tube to use for the Denon headphones since it already have good bass. I am curious to see what similar opinions we can reach once our op-amps arrive. 

 P.S. In case for anyone that did not hear. The Little Dot web site is now up at 

www.littledot.net_

 

Hey John57 - I understand why someone may think that way but I look at it another way. Obviously - this whole hobby is about personal taste. I am not a bass head by any means (as you can see - I love the Grado and AKG sound which few would call heavy bass phones). I specifically bought the Denons because I wanted to have some cans in the collection that gave me that deep, powerful bassy sound. However, I didn't buy them because I don't like Grados or AKGs anymore - it's because I have this natural instinct to change things up all of the time (and I love them all in a different way - like kids right?).

 And that is precisely why I love these LD amps and their ability to roll tubes and OpAmps and change the sound signature dramatically. *So to my point* - although I agree that the Denons already have a very pronounced, strong bass - the EF91s (which to my ear absolutely do emphasize the bass) make the Denons sound fantastically different (but not bad). And BTW - so do at least 5 other pairs of tubes that I own and I use them all.

 And the reason I think so many people read and contribute to this thread is that they love the ability to hear their music "differently" with this awesome amp. I love the fact that depending on what I'm listening to - one tube may make the Denons sound even more bassy or powerful while another set of tubes may feature the mids or highs more. Both different - but neither bad for that particular set of cans. So IMO - you should have some EF91s, along with 95s, 92s, and whatever else you can get your hands on - cause for the most part they are all good depending on your source, mood or phones.

 Just my 2 cents anyway...


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *deltaspirit* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I like mine with the mullard m8161's, should I look into anything else? Heatfan have you had a chance to compare with m8161 with your ef91's?_

 


 Hello deltaspirit,

 Another solid set of tubes- M8161...It does everything right and never fatiguing. Unfortunately, I have not compared them head to head. I usually roll in a different set about every 8-10 days. The EF91 & EF92 family has some great tubes. If you look back in this thread there was a period where everything was about the 408A. Great tubes, no doubt, but why limit yourself to one family when three can be enjoyed.

 The only tube in the EF92 family that I own and I find extremely microphonic is the Ediswan. Sound is great and very detailed, so it really does not bother me. I usually don't go around doing cartwheels while I'm listening to headphones, so tapping the cable hard is not a problem for me...


----------



## Aynjell

Hal-o 7's are on, and I'll be listening all weekend, and then I'll try it without to see if I notice anything different. It's about the only way I can notice subtle changes. I had to listen to Sylvania's for a month and then come back to mullard's to truly appreciate them for what they were to me. 

 Makes me want to hunt down some big shields...


----------



## john57

I believe that Pursuit of Audio Nirvana is never perfect or 100% achievable. I am very happy with my Little Dot 1+ and it will satisfy my needs for a long time without having to feel the itch to upgrade. I am perfectly content to stay with the 408A family even when I did not try every single tube out there. I still have my Melos pre-amp if I want a different tube sound and that uses the 6DJ8 which is quite different from the 408A in my Little Dot. I just received my backup pair of my favorite GE 408A tubes and at a reasonable price, knock on wood! Good 6DJ8 for the Melos are getting pricey but a have a few good ones at home and I still need to get a good 12A7WA for the CAL Sigma ll DAC after 15 years on hiatus. What I trying to achieve a sense of being in a concert hall with the headphones. Have a good bass balance is important for the acoustical types of music that I listen to. Still waiting for my LM4562NA to arrive.


----------



## Aynjell

Right now I'm listening to the Little Dot I+, using Sylvania GB408A (doesn't appear to have gold pins), and LT1364. The Sylvania's seem to have too much bass, and a lot of warmth. It seems to be impacting the plausibility of the Grado g cushions. Perhaps this is an important factor here, having more bass, I am not using them anymore, though, simply because it makes the headphone far less efficient. I'm going to be trying the stock "comfies" again soon.

 Another thing, regarding the tube dampers, providing you place them right they bring the micro-phonics down a bit. It's not a night and day change, but if you place them right, it can cut the micro-phonics down by as much as half. Rubbing your finger across the textured patch on the top or the volume knob have always been good tests for me.


----------



## PatOMalley

Just switched from AMPEREX 5654 to Mullard EF91 and the difference is worthy. The Amperex are most probably relabeled Mullard so it is not the manufacturer here just the difference in the tube type that is making it a phat midrange for voice. A lot more color.


----------



## Aynjell

Just swapped in LM4562. BIG difference, and I feel like I'm on the right track now. I may have to try patomalley's cap mod if this keeps up impressing me. The range is just there for me. With the LT1364, bass was just _BLOATED_
 Edit: I've found that the LM4562 has a little bot of static in the right channel. None of my other opa's exhibit this behavior. Funny thing is, it doesn't increase with volume, but if I bring the gain to 7 (uncapped) the noise increases. Do I have a bad opa, or is this normal behavior and is this what the caps fix?


----------



## PatOMalley

They seem to fail after some duration.
 Always right channels it seems.

 You gotta really keep the heat away from them when modding.

 I was thinking it was my jack but you are confirming my second suspicion.


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PatOMalley* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They seem to fail after some duration.
 Always right channels it seems.

 You gotta really keep the heat away from them when modding.

 I was thinking it was my jack but you are confirming my second suspicion._

 

Glad and sad we're both having the same problem. Confirmed my suspicion as well. So a LM4526 with a cap woudl work better or am I just chasing ghosts with this thing? I wonder if there's am ore stable OPA that works with these guys.

 I'm back to LT1364, and it doesn't sound like what I remember. The bass is thre, and powerful, but no longer bloated. Only change I can think of to be honest is moving gain to 7. One thing I've noticed almost to my own agony: Audio Technica has far better synergy with the LD I+ than grado does. My SR325i I have fought and fought and fought to make them sound great. The ATH-AD700 sounds great with any op amp and tube I throw at it. The current setup is smoky, bass heavy, but has all the rest of the sound there. It almost makes me want to sell my SR325i and invest in something else. :\


----------



## St3ve

Hi everyone,

 I thought i would do a little write up of my tube rolling experiences with the I+. The headphones used with my I+ are a Grado RS1i and some 325is. My source is Lossless music through an apogee duet. I would like to bring attention to the comprehensive impressions by hottyson, who tested (many) tubes against his Sr225 - a great resource for Grado/I+ tube info:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/tub...dphone-395877/

 Firstly, on the subject of opamps, i installed an LM4562NA and would advise anyone to do so (there are many suggested opamps, i got the LM4562 purely because it was easily available for me) - a cheap, easy and worthwhile upgrade in my opinion. Therefore, my impressions may be skewed regarding how any of these valves may sound with the stock opamp.

 For the last couple of weeks, i have been testing these:

 Western Electric 408A (WE408A), which i bought with the amp.
 Valve electronic M8100 ( same box as mullards, rebrands?)
 Mullard M8161 (small shield)
 Brimar M8161 (old red and black box jobs)

 I also picked up some teflon tube dampers as the M8100 and brimars are quite microphonic.

 Impressions:

 The *WE408A*s have a light and clean sound. Instrument separation is great, and there does seem to be a clearer sense of space within the music. The caveat, in my experience, is that these valves are not particularly rich sounding and i have spent the least time with them (despite paying the most for them). I was hearing a strange kind of sibilance, most noticable for me when there was upper-register close harmony (vocal or otherwise) - quite distracting for me. Whilst I don't particularly like these valves with my Grados, i have the feeling these valves might well be fantastic with other cans, cans which benefit from a bit of added air and clarity.

 The *Valve Electronic M8100*s are really enjoyable for me. Possibly my favourites, despite me paying the least for them (always the way). These tubes have warmth and clarity and pair very nicely with my RS1s in particular. These valves seem to have a nice balanced tonality to my ears, not once when listening through them did I feel that there was an over/under-emphasis anywhere. I might well try and snap up some spares, and would advise them for Grados without a doubt.

 The *Mullard M8161* are great valves too. I had good expectations of these as i had read that other members enjoy their sound (in particular, Aynjell had said they are good for his 325is). These valves are perhaps the most "tubey" i have. By that I mean that they seem to me to have a smooth, and rich, bass and midrange - a really enjoyable sound when playing rock/metal through them. Apparently the "big shield" mullards are even better, but i haven't be able to find any. I would advise Grado users to give these a spin, particularly with the 325is, as they have a lovely thickening effect on the sound.

 Finally, the *Brimar M8161*, which predictably are most similar to the aforementioned Mullards. I am not too sure on tube history, but i looked up Brimars and identified these by the box they came in as being 1950's jobbies: Brimar Valves . They sound to me to have a slightly cleaner sound than the Mullards, and also seem to imbue the sound with a nice sense of space. These are very enjoyable valves and work very nicely with my grados. These were being marketed on ebay as "little dot valves" by the seller.

 There are loads of valves i haven't tried. In particular, i would like to try the much vaunted Sylvania 408As but they seem to be as rare as hen's teeth. Similarly the Amperex 6ak5s are apparently really good fun. I will update this post if i get any new valves, or if my opinions change radically. I hope everyone is enjoying this great little amp as much as me.


----------



## lescanard

Thanks St3ve - nice write-up and I "WILL" use the line "rare as a hen's teeth" sometime today!

 I agree with you on the 8161s and the 325is - a very good match indeed. I also highly recommend the Mullard CV4014s - an EF91 tube that sounds exceptional with all of my phones. I picked up a couple of pairs of these recently on eBay at about $6.50 ea and there are still a few left I believe.


----------



## Rotomoto

I just bought a used 1+ on ebay. This may be a little OT, but can anyone tell me the signal chain of this amp? Is it input>tubes>opamp>buffer transistors>output? I'm deciding whether to spend my meager budget on tube or opamp mods first


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Rotomoto* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just bought a used 1+ on ebay. This may be a little OT, but can anyone tell me the signal chain of this amp? Is it input>tubes>opamp>buffer transistors>output? I'm deciding whether to spend my meager budget on tube or opamp mods first
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Buy op amps first, to be honest. If you are limited to a small budget, you can buy 4-5 op amps for the price of one set of tubes, and will give you the best rolling value. 30$ for that many opa's is a good deal, wouldn't you say? Just look through the thread, find the opa's people are liking and order 'em off digi-key. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Tubes would be best to come second, because to be honest, the stock op amp sounds pretty bad regardless of the tubes (compared to others I've heard).

 I'm heart broken the LM4526 didn't work out. :X

 Worth noting, the LT1364 is one of the least sibilant of the bunch. It's probably one of the best op amps for all the ones I've tested, and just has a clean sound. With the right tubes, it can sound big and marvelous with a lot of body and warmth. It makes my grado SR325i's sound warm, and powerful as opposed to bright. And I've really grown to like the combo a lot.


----------



## PatOMalley

I do a lot of burning and could be damaging my 4526s in the process.
 As it is i need only let my machine warm up for 20 minutes and the LM4526 runs just fine. And as you point out, it's cheap enough.

 That opamp is still my preference and still runs in both headphones amps, phone preamps, and CDPs I have.


----------



## St3ve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lescanard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I also highly recommend the Mullard CV4014s - an EF91 tube that sounds exceptional with all of my phones._

 

Thanks for the heads-up Lescanard, I have found some of those on ebay, so i shall probably pick a pair up at some point.


----------



## eddyz

anyone have a pictural guide as to how to change opamp? and how many i need? Im interested in getting the LM4526. Oh, and if i need to change any of the jumpers?

 thanks


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *eddyz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyone have a pictural guide as to how to change opamp? and how many i need? Im interested in getting the LM4526. Oh, and if i need to change any of the jumpers?

 thanks_

 

I doubt it'll work. Mine sure didn't. According to mine and patomalley's findings, they're alerging to our amp. I may pick one up in the distant future, or maybe a few to see if I can cherry pick one.


----------



## St3ve

@ Aynjell + Pat - are you guys refering to 4562? or is the 4526 a different one?. Been running my lm4562 for about 2 weeks and haven't encountered any problems.


----------



## Trapper32

I've also ran a 4562 with no problems other than i preferred other op amps in this circuit


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PatOMalley* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I do a lot of burning and could be damaging my 4526s in the process.
 As it is i need only let my machine warm up for 20 minutes and the LM4526 runs just fine. And as you point out, it's cheap enough.

 That opamp is still my preference and still runs in both headphones amps, phone preamps, and CDPs I have._

 

I'll try this sometime, if a 20 minute warmup is required I may be interested in seeing if it works that way, but still, 20 minutes is huge.


----------



## eddyz

i ment 4562 .. ops.

 i opened it, is this basically a "plug and play" kinda deal?

 really new to this and dont wanna fry my new toy haha


----------



## St3ve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *eddyz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i ment 4562 .. ops.

 i opened it, is this basically a "plug and play" kinda deal?

 really new to this and dont wanna fry my new toy haha_

 

Yup, just plug and play (with dual channel opamps like the LM4562) - just make sure the indented side faces the front of the amp. And be careful, cos the legs bend easily.


----------



## eddyz

thanks st3ve , do i only need one or two?

 i will get it and see how it goes!


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *eddyz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thanks st3ve , do i only need one or two?

 i will get it and see how it goes!_

 

For the LM4562, and LT1364, both are single chip solutions. There are however, single channel chips that require two, plus an adapter appropriate for the chip, to use it in a socket designed for op amps like the 4562 and the 1364.


----------



## Rotomoto

Ok, I just loaded in my new LT1364 opamp (per aynjell's suggestion) in my I+.
 First of all, after I ordered it, I did a little digging through this thread and noticed that some people had some high DC offset measurements with this opamp, which concerned me. As soon as I installed it, I let it settle in for 10 mins or so and measured my offset at the headphone ouputs. It was 18mv plus or minus .5mv in each channel. A tad high, but certainly safe enough for me.
 So far, I only have a few hours of burn time on it. It sounds more forward than the stock opamp. The highs are more prominent, borderline edgy-bright. I'm hoping this will settle after some burn-in. The low end has filled in nicely and seems well controlled. 
 What I'm really seeking is that tubey, liquid sound. Is this possible with this amp? 
 My amp still has the stock tubes. Gain is at 3db. I'm going to do some listening for the next week or so with this setup to get used to it, but would definitely like to start rolling some tubes shortly.


----------



## PatOMalley

You need to tie caps to pin 4 and 8 then tie that to ground.
 Then the opamp will really settle rock solid. Noise driven to ground will give smooth dynamics but the edge you now hear will be gone. It will take on a warmer but more stable character.







Little Dot I+ mods

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Rotomoto* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, I just loaded in my new LT1364 opamp (per aynjell's suggestion) in my I+.
 First of all, after I ordered it, I did a little digging through this thread and noticed that some people had some high DC offset measurements with this opamp, which concerned me. As soon as I installed it, I let it settle in for 10 mins or so and measured my offset at the headphone ouputs. It was 18mv plus or minus .5mv in each channel. A tad high, but certainly safe enough for me.
 So far, I only have a few hours of burn time on it. It sounds more forward than the stock opamp. The highs are more prominent, borderline edgy-bright. I'm hoping this will settle after some burn-in. The low end has filled in nicely and seems well controlled. 
 What I'm really seeking is that tubey, liquid sound. Is this possible with this amp? 
 My amp still has the stock tubes. Gain is at 3db. I'm going to do some listening for the next week or so with this setup to get used to it, but would definitely like to start rolling some tubes shortly._


----------



## Rotomoto

Thanks, when I get some courage up, I may give that a shot!


----------



## lescanard

Damn...finally rolled in my LM4562 and had low level static in the left channel - I tried swapping the tubes and even flopped in some other tubes to see if it was that but it was obviously the OpAmp. Back to the 1364 and dead silent. Oh well. What causes this out of curiosity?


----------



## PatOMalley

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lescanard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Damn...finally rolled in my LM4562 and had low level static in the left channel - I tried swapping the tubes and even flopped in some other tubes to see if it was that but it was obviously the OpAmp. Back to the 1364 and dead silent. Oh well. What causes this out of curiosity?_

 

I let my amp warm up for 20 minutes then listen. Recently I had left channel distortion and found that it was a poor corrupted solder joint in my DAC. That opamp is very resolving.

 Again another instance I head a ton of right channel his and my front 12AU7 was poor on it's right channel. Swapped tubes and it disappeared.

 It could be an issue upstream.


----------



## Rotomoto

I've pulled out my LT1364, which after 10's of hours of burn time, I still felt it was too analytical and edgy in the upper mids. In went an LME49720, which is supposedly the same chip as the LM4562(which I also have, but not tried yet). The LME is much smoother, more to my liking. I also don't have any noise issues with it, it's nearly silent. I do feel is has a little less air and detail to it than the LT1364, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make. On high level female vocal transients, the LT1364 felt as though someone was actually scraping my eardrum. I wanted to like it, but it just didn't work for me. 
 Offset measurements on the LME are negligible as well, under 1mv, each channel. This is better than the 18mv measurement I was getting with the LT. 
 I will try the LM4562 shortly to see if theres any difference between the two.


----------



## Aynjell

I'm going to have to grab an LME49720 then. If it's the same chip but works well in our amps, then it's worth it.

 I've also come to the conclusion that I have the sylvania's. The mullards were swapped in and since then I haven't hesitated once to plug in my headphones and jam out. I think the sylvania's were just too sharp for my ears. No warmth. No body. Just highs. LT1364 + Mullards is far more to my liking. Music that sounded terrible a week ago is now shining beautiful and powerful.


----------



## eddyz

lol so ya i was stupid and ordered the wrong part NEWB .

 instead i got this -> LM4562MA SOIC 8


 what can i do with this LOL


----------



## PatOMalley

you can buy an adapter and solder the chip to it then plug it in ... or order the right part.


----------



## john57

I did a retest of all the Op-amps that I have for use in the Little Dot 1+. The LM4562NA used in some Little Dot products, OPA2111KP, the OPA2107AP along with the stock MC33078 chip. I still did not like at all the LM4562NA as being too analytical and the sound was starting to be gritty, surprising. Before having the Little Dot 1+ I had the Creek OBH-11 Headphone Amp which costs more but had a volume control that did not pan well and it had a gritty sound quality and I was using the line output of the M-Audio Delta Audiophile 2496 card at the time. Since now I am using the CAL Sigma ll DAC I realize that the gritty sound quality was not the limitation of the computer sound card analog outputs. Next I tried the OPA2111KP since it has some good reviews and it was one of the slowest op-amp as far slew rate and bandwidth is concerned. I find the OPA2111KP to be soft sounding and less dynamic than the other op-amps I have tried. Last I retry the OPA2107AP op-amp which has a high slew rate but a rather limited bandwidth and I am not sure that all the debate on slew rates and bandwidth has much impression on the sound quality. The impression that I had with this op-amp before was mostly the same that there was a bit more detail and the bass and the treble were better controlled. At the time the OPA2107AP did not seems to have the big soundstage as the stock MC33078 op-amp. After more listening I found that the soundstage with the stock MC33078 op-amp tend to wander giving an impression of a more larger soundstage. The soundstage with the OPA2107AP is by far more stable and precise. It seems that the two channels are more independent from each other. It took some time for me to get used to it and I am now using the OPA2107AP full time.


----------



## Aynjell

After a lot of listening, I've just gotten fed up with the LT1364. No matter what tubes I use (and I have what are reportedly some of the best options), nothing sounded good to me. Swapping back in the stock opa, and things sound good. A bit closer to what I wanted. Balanced.

 I think the lt1364 is better for headphones with a wide sound stage, because it seems to brings things in a bit and tighten it up. Brings you a few rows up. And that, combined with SR325i, makes you feel fatigued and crowded.


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *john57* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ The soundstage with the OPA2107AP is by far more stable and precise. It seems that the two channels are more independent from each other. It took some time for me to get used to it and I am now using the OPA2107AP full time._

 


 I found the 4562 far too analytical and dry for my tastes and have gone to the OPA2107AP as well. Seems to be a good alrounder with most tubes.


----------



## Aynjell

So, after trying several op amps, I'm back at square one. So far, the most enjoyable for me is stock. Does anybody know of any opa's that sound great with SR325i? I have Mullard M8161 and Sylvania GB408-A to work with, though I prefer the Mullard sound. It's fuller, cleaner. At least, at the end of my stint with the LT1364 it was the most tolerable, after swapping in the old op-amp, I'm left with something a bit to low heavy for me.

 I'm looking something with an almost exagerated sound stage, to give my SR325i some depth, good bass, but clean silky sound that I know these cans are capable of. So far, on my list for the next time I get an order of opa's:

 OPA2107AP 
 OPA2111KP
 LME49720 

 I definitely want to try these. Anything else I should be looking at?


----------



## Rotomoto

Of the opamps I've tried (Lt1364, Stock, LM4562, and LME49720), I think I've settled on the LME49720. As for those who assume the LM4562 and LME49720 are the same, don't. In my opinion they sound noticeably different. So make sure you try them both if you have them. 
 I've got a set of Valve Electronics 6AK5W tubes incoming. I'm hoping for a more 'tubey' sound out of them. Fingers crossed.


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Rotomoto* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Of the opamps I've tried (Lt1364, Stock, LM4562, and LME49720), I think I've settled on the LME49720. As for those who assume the LM4562 and LME49720 are the same, don't. In my opinion they sound noticeably different. So make sure you try them both if you have them. 
 I've got a set of Valve Electronics 6AK5W tubes incoming. I'm hoping for a more 'tubey' sound out of them. Fingers crossed._

 

Definitely wanna try this LME opa everyone's raving about.

 I'm back to the GB408A, LT1364 combo, but I found the missing link. My SR325i + Quarter mod (reversed) comfies.


----------



## 8-bit thief

I got the M8161, I was disappointed in them at first because they were less detailed and the soundstage wasn't as wide as the stock tubes but then about 15 hours in something weird happened, out of nowhere they started sounding really warm and bassy, the transition was almost instant, it was the weirdest thing ever, but it only lasted about 30 minutes and then they went back to being plain, boring and undetailed sounding, I've put another 5 hours into them but I have yet to hear anything like that again, is it normal for a tube to break in in such a strange way? will they sound nice and rich again once they've settled down and fully broken in? or am I just nuts?


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *8-bit thief* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got the M8161, I was disappointed in them at first because they were less detailed and the soundstage wasn't as wide as the stock tubes but then about 15 hours in something weird happened, out of nowhere they started sounding really warm and bassy, the transition was almost instant, it was the weirdest thing ever, but it only lasted about 30 minutes and then they went back to being plain, boring and undetailed sounding, I've put another 5 hours into them but I have yet to hear anything like that again, is it normal for a tube to break in in such a strange way? will they sound nice and rich again once they've settled down and fully broken in? or am I just nuts?_

 

Mine sound warm and bassy. Let 'em run for a bit longer... but who knows with tubes?


----------



## 8-bit thief

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aynjell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine sound warm and bassy. Let 'em run for a bit longer... but who knows with tubes?_

 

Well they did sound a tiny bit warmer at first particularly in the lower midrange but nothing like what happened 15 hours in, man I'm just baffled, that sudden change really caught me off guard.


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *8-bit thief* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well they did sound a tiny bit warmer at first particularly in the lower midrange but nothing like what happened 15 hours in, man I'm just baffled, that sudden change really caught me off guard._

 

I've never experienced what you've described. I've heard tubes stutter very quickly due to my cell phone... but I've never had a tube totally change character. But then again, I got mine after a lot of burn-in, both M8161 and GB408A.

 Give it another few sessions!


----------



## V3ng3anc3

I have a question, when I searched for Mullard M8100 tubes on ebay, I end up finding the CV4010. Is there a difference between them? Or are they two seperate tubes but in the same family?

 Thanks


----------



## roker

Honestly, my setup sounds so good that I'm not sure if I should try anything else.

 Here's what I have:

 I have an LT1364 and Mullard CV4010 tubes.

 What should I try next?


----------



## Oskari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *V3ng3anc3* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a question, when I searched for Mullard M8100 tubes on ebay, I end up finding the CV4010. Is there a difference between them? Or are they two seperate tubes but in the same family?_

 

"The CV4010 is the UK Government code for the commercial M8100 which in turn is Mullard's special quality version of the EF95." (CV4010 @ The National Valve Museum)


----------



## V3ng3anc3

Thanks Oskari, that was informative. 

 Does anyone have spare M8100, M8161, Sylvania GB-408A, LME49720, LT1364, and LM4562 that I can purchase?


----------



## betweentheears

I just received my Little Dot1+ from another Head-Fier and I am liking it so far. After reading the thread educating myself on the different tubes and op amps, I wonder how different genre's of music are affecting the choices of these pieces. Would some tubes be better suited to rock, metal, pop, etc. If anyone has info, perhaps they could share it with the rest of us. I am interested in tubes and op amp's best suited to metal and hard rock. If I missed any posts containing this info, I am sorry but it is a long thread. Thanks 

 ps: using Alessandro MS1's


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *betweentheears* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just received my Little Dot1+ from another Head-Fier and I am liking it so far. After reading the thread educating myself on the different tubes and op amps, I wonder how different genre's of music are affecting the choices of these pieces. Would some tubes be better suited to rock, metal, pop, etc. If anyone has info, perhaps they could share it with the rest of us. I am interested in tubes and op amp's best suited to metal and hard rock. If I missed any posts containing this info, I am sorry but it is a long thread. Thanks 

 ps: using Alessandro MS1's_

 

For me, Sylvania GB408A + LT1364CN8 sounds terrible for really heavy guitar (like Korn, Joe Satriani, etc)... it just sounds like one big note with 1/4mod comfies. It's better with bowls, but you lose warmth with this setup.

 I won't have time tonite but I'm going to swap in the mullards again tomorrow and see what I think of them with my grado's + flats.


----------



## betweentheears

Thanks Aynjell, I just swapped in WE408A and am finding them a little muddy with heavy passages but the accoustic guitar sounds great[Opeth]. I will give them a little longer before putting the stock tubes back in. If any Canadian Head-fiers have a good scource for op amps and tubes could you forward via post or PM.


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *betweentheears* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Aynjell, I just swapped in WE408A and am finding them a little muddy with heavy passages but the accoustic guitar sounds great[Opeth]. I will give them a little longer before putting the stock tubes back in. If any Canadian Head-fiers have a good scource for op amps and tubes could you forward via post or PM._

 

Yep, guitar will sound great. First time I truly had an eargasm just from an opa or tube change was the LM4526, but I can't use it because of the damned hissing in right channel. Supposedly there are similar that work fine in this amp but...


----------



## john57

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *betweentheears* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Aynjell, I just swapped in WE408A and am finding them a little muddy with heavy passages but the accoustic guitar sounds great[Opeth]. I will give them a little longer before putting the stock tubes back in. If any Canadian Head-fiers have a good scource for op amps and tubes could you forward via post or PM._

 

Make sure you move the jumper back from the 408A position when going back to the stock tubes since the 408A are using 20v for the heaters.


----------



## PatOMalley

I used some silver conductive grease on the opamp slots and it did help to settle the noise from the opamp.


----------



## Aynjell

Back to M8161. Not only are they prettier... they have a wider sound stage and a more nuetral presentation. So far, I'm finding they're a better fit for SR325i + Flats.


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PatOMalley* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I used some silver conductive grease on the opamp slots and it did help to settle the noise from the opamp._

 

What, arctic silver or something?


----------



## betweentheears

Are the GB408A a significant upgrage from the WE408A? So far the best upgrage has been the change from MS1's > TF10's . The WE408A is not so muddy now.


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *betweentheears* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are the GB408A a significant upgrage from the WE408A? So far the best upgrage has been the change from MS1's > TF10's . The WE408A is not so muddy now._

 

I really need either some different tubes or different op amps. I personally don't have a major love for teh GB408A, or at least no love for the standard combo (GB408A, LT1364). It's the best I've got currently... but it's still not an amazing sounding system.

 I want more clarity, more detail... more range. I'm curious what other tubes or op amps I should be trying:

 Tubes:
Stock 6JI
Mullard M8161 Small Sheild
Sylvania GB408A

 Op Amps:
LT1364CN8
Stop Op Amp
LM4562 (my favourite sound wise, but it has a hissing popping sound in r channel)
OPA2227 (way too mid forward, no bass)
OPA2134 (Not an option)


----------



## PatOMalley

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aynjell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What, arctic silver or something?_

 

I am using this:


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PatOMalley* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am using this:




_

 

Interesting. I know arctic silver is slightly capacitive... I wonder if it would give some of the effect that adding capacitors would add. I might try it sometime.

 Another thing:

 I found a surprisingly good combination: Stock 6JI tubes and LT1364CN8. It turns out really strong, powerful, but with the clarity that the sylvania's doesn't offer. It still has some soundstage, but you get all the power and euphonics of the Sylvania setup. You get euphonics and soundstage. From SR325i with flats... here are my notes on the combo:

 6JI/LT1364

 Strong bass, forward low mids, spacious mid and high mids, strong piercing highs. Lacking a bit of resolution. Sounds much better than stock opa stock tube.

 Lacking the dry texture I liked about these cans. A bit liquid.


 Very surprising. I imagine anything else I hookup will sound even bigger...


----------



## Aynjell

I'm still rolling opa's through with the 6JI, and I found another shocker. The 6JI with OPA2227 is pretty nuetral. Nothing stands out at all. It's like the amp is sonically invisible.


----------



## V3ng3anc3

Has anyone tried Mullard M8083/EF91 and can comment on how it sounds?


----------



## PatOMalley

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *V3ng3anc3* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone tried Mullard M8083/EF91 and can comment on how it sounds?_

 

So far I've tried :
 Stock 6J1
 Amperex 5654
 Russian 6J1-P
 Mullard E91

 and the E91 is my favorite. fuller all around. More depth. 
 The amperex were good, with good energy and dynamics while the Russian 6J1 had more thcker tone but a little condensed. The E91 seems to take the best of both and then add some authority.


----------



## V3ng3anc3

Thanks Pat, sounds good. I think I'll have to get a pair as soon as David sends me an invoice for the LD, he said they were out of volume knob caps atm. :[

 As far as op-amps go, the consensus is that LME49720, LT1364, and LM4562 are pretty much the best sounding correct?

 And for tubes they are the M8100, M8161, Sylvania GB-408, and EF91? At least those are the ones that seem to be the most popular, except for the EF91.


----------



## PatOMalley

I can only say what I like and so far the LM4562 has turned out the best for me ... My Amp


----------



## Aynjell

I just ordered some EF91. We'll see what I think!


----------



## schwallman

anyone tried a LME49720HA fitted to DIP adaptor? would it work?


----------



## Aynjell

I need some more op amp suggestions. Ideas, guys?

 So far I have:

 Mullard EF92 M8161
 Mullard EF91
 Sylvania 408A
 Stock 6JI

 for Opa's:

 LM4562
 LT1364
 OPA2132
 OPA2227
 Stock

 I want a few more options, and wanna get a few on my list to order. On the list already is:

 LME49720

 Any others that are really nuetral, but with a bit of warmth in the middle? I want something that has bass, controlled, but with depth, warm spacious mids with fairly nuetral highs. Also, sound stage would be nice as I'd like to have the same config for gaming as I have for music. Suggestions? Ideas?


----------



## schwallman

What do those dampners do for you? any noticable difference?
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aynjell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I need some more op amp suggestions. Ideas, guys?

 So far I have:

 Mullard EF92 M8161
 Mullard EF91
 Sylvania 408A
 Stock 6JI

 for Opa's:

 LM4562
 LT1364
 OPA2132
 OPA2227
 Stock

 I want a few more options, and wanna get a few on my list to order. On the list already is:

 LME49720

 Any others that are really nuetral, but with a bit of warmth in the middle? I want something that has bass, controlled, but with depth, warm spacious mids with fairly nuetral highs. Also, sound stage would be nice as I'd like to have the same config for gaming as I have for music. Suggestions? Ideas?_


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *schwallman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What do those dampners do for you? any noticable difference?_

 

Sound wise, not much. The different too subtle for me to nail down... nothing I've noticed to be honest. One thing though, they look nice. 

 Downsides: it rubs the markings off the tubes. Short tubes don't notice a change at all (sylvania 408A, stock 6JI)

 Upside: tall tubes the microphonics almost disappear (read: mullards).

 Anyway, back to my origional question: need some op amp suggestions!


----------



## V3ng3anc3

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aynjell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just ordered some EF91. We'll see what I think!_

 

How are the EF91? Was waiting for your impression.


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *V3ng3anc3* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How are the EF91? Was waiting for your impression._

 

Not earth shattering for me. I haven't' had much time with them, but extremely prominent lows. That's all I've got from it thus far.


----------



## V3ng3anc3

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aynjell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not earth shattering for me. I haven't' had much time with them, but extremely prominent lows. That's all I've got from it thus far._

 

That's kind of disappointing to hear considering I bought one myself, though I bought the one that's printed M8083. Please post an update if it turns out sounding better after burn-in, thanks!


----------



## Aynjell

Not earth shattering, but one of the least fatiguing tubes I've heard. That's all I'm noticing for now. I think it's paired poorly. A different and slightly more revealing op amp would do wonders next to this tube I bet.


----------



## lescanard

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *V3ng3anc3* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's kind of disappointing to hear considering I bought one myself, though I bought the one that's printed M8083. Please post an update if it turns out sounding better after burn-in, thanks!_

 

Don't be disappointed in your purchase. I have a boatload of tubes - and can honestly say the EF91s are easily my favorites in both my LD amps with Grados, Denons and AKGs. Great thing about this hobby - we all have different ears and preferences. I'm not always right and you're not always wrong - it's personal.


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lescanard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't be disappointed in your purchase. I have a boatload of tubes - and can honestly say the EF91s are easily my favorites in both my LD amps with Grados, Denons and AKGs. Great thing about this hobby - we all have different ears and preferences. I'm not always right and you're not always wrong - it's personal._

 

Exactly. I say take a few chances, figure it out for yourself, and find people who like what you like on the forums and follow a few of their buying decisions.

 Edit I rescind my last two comments primarily because my sound card was configured poorly. I didn't notice because today and yesterday (when I got the tubes) I was too tired to pay much attention to the idea. Basically... had the gaming related features on my x-fi on and it makes all the difference in the world, I tell you.

 I'll offer some insight tommorrow.

 I know one thing for a fact though:

 Ef91's are the brightest and most beautiful tube I own.


----------



## Aynjell

Another note: Very microphonic, dampers or not, they don't respond to dampers as well as EF92.


----------



## lescanard

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aynjell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Another note: Very microphonic, dampers or not, they don't respond to dampers as well as EF92._

 

Agreed - although microphonic tubes don't bother me as much as it seems to others. Once the music starts flowing I'm all in I guess. 

 I agree with one other point as made by Aynjell - experimentation is awesome. I've found tubes I didn't quite care for at first have later become top 5s for me. For example - GE 5stars which everyone raves about on the LD MKIII rolling thread quickly were average for me on first listen when I found them. 6 months later, I rolled them back into my amp and now I can't stop listening to them. It's not just "burn-in"...it's mood, source, artist, song - everything. Try them all within your limit!


----------



## V3ng3anc3

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lescanard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_we all have different ears and preferences. I'm not always right and you're not always wrong - it's personal._

 

True, I don't regret making that purchase at all. Especially if it's at least aesthetically pleasing with the brightest glow. 

  Quote:


 Edit I rescind my last two comments primarily because my sound card was configured poorly. I didn't notice because today and yesterday (when I got the tubes) I was too tired to pay much attention to the idea. Basically... had the gaming related features on my x-fi on and it makes all the difference in the world, I tell you. 
 

That's good to hear. Yeah I remember for my desktop when I had my x-fi on gaming it sounds quite different than when it's on music mode. 

  Quote:


 Another note: Very microphonic, dampers or not, they don't respond to dampers as well as EF92. 
 

Should I even bother getting dampers? I mean even for my other tubes? Or should I just wait and see how bad the microphonics are before I decide.


----------



## lescanard

Should I even bother getting dampers? I mean even for my other tubes? Or should I just wait and see how bad the microphonics are before I decide.[/QUOTE]

 I've thought about it but really when the music starts flowing I just don't notice it. Other than the fact they look cool I just don't see why.


----------



## PatOMalley

You may need em and will have them when you do.

 I am not sure which tubes they may make a difference with - I just put them on as standard and never think about it after.

 and for the 91's what other revealing opamp is there but the LM4562?

 They combine to make a solid tone/timbre with extension and lots of inner detail.


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *V3ng3anc3* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_True, I don't regret making that purchase at all. Especially if it's at least aesthetically pleasing with the brightest glow. 



 That's good to hear. Yeah I remember for my desktop when I had my x-fi on gaming it sounds quite different than when it's on music mode. 



 Should I even bother getting dampers? I mean even for my other tubes? Or should I just wait and see how bad the microphonics are before I decide._

 

Microphonics aren't something terribly intrusive. You hear it when you tap on the tubes or touch the amp or rub your finger on it. If you don't mess with it, it's all fine. Just keep your cell away from it.

 That being said:

 tube dampers help, but they're a bandaid. They aren't somethign that will improve your hi-fi setup drastically. I got my Peek Halo's for 25$ or so shipped. You can't get 1 at that price anymore... it's a different story when they're twice as much. Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't buy them unless it was proven to really help with a certain type of tube.

 Basically: I wouldn't. Go buy those rubber o-rings that work about as well if not better. I forget which part number it is, but most autozone's have them for a small fraction of what a single high end damper might cost.


----------



## V3ng3anc3

I think I'll hold off on the dampers unless things go terribly wrong. 

 Aren't rubber o-rings a bad idea because they might melt from the high temp of the tubes? Reminds me of what happens to the o-rings that I use in rocket motors, they turn into crisps after launch.


----------



## PatOMalley

The little red rings you usually see in use are made of silicone which has not yet melted on any of my tubes.

 Just a word about the dampers. They are said to draw heat from the tubes increasing their already 10,000 hour life span for small small small signal tubes.

 There is my 2cents of audio-nervosa.


----------



## gknix

Hi guys,

 I've read a lot about this amp, and I am finally going to purchase them! It seems like 408A seems to be a quite popular change, but I still am not sure what tubes to roll to fit my particular headphones.

 I'm using HF-2s, and I feel that the mid-bass/ and mids are a little muddled, and clarity/details/instrument separation/soundstage needs to be amended. What tubes and opamps would be recommended? 
 I'm also new to all this tube rolling fun, but is it hard to change the opamps?

 Cheers!


----------



## gknix

Just a question, is this the GE408A that people previously purchased?
408A Tube [408A] - $5.49 : Piexx Company, Computers & Electronics


----------



## gknix

Answered my own question*


----------



## schwallman

is this what i would need for the lme49720? the adapter its fitted onto would work correct?

LM4562 LME49720 LME49710 NA MA HA


----------



## Rotomoto

or this doesn't need an adapter

Digi-Key - LME49720NA-ND (Manufacturer - LME49720NA/NOPB)


----------



## schwallman

Any real difference since one is round and the other is flat?


----------



## Rotomoto

Same circuit, different package. But you could buy both and tell us if you can hear a difference


----------



## schwallman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Rotomoto* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Same circuit, different package. But you could buy both and tell us if you can hear a difference
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'll save $30 and just get the flat one. I hope there kidding about $10 for shipping. It weighs nothing.


----------



## Rotomoto

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *schwallman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll save $30 and just get the flat one. I hope there kidding about $10 for shipping. It weighs nothing._

 

Nope, sound about right. It's still cheaper than ebay and you know for sure you're getting what you order.


----------



## gknix

6028 JAN SYLVANIA 1975 VAC.TUBE 408A SUB EMISSIONS 96 - eBay (item 120497973029 end time Mar-25-10 10:29:34 PDT)

 Anyone tried these? How different are they from the sylvania gold pins 408A?


----------



## john57

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gknix* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_6028 JAN SYLVANIA 1975 VAC.TUBE 408A SUB EMISSIONS 96 - eBay (item 120497973029 end time Mar-25-10 10:29:34 PDT)

 Anyone tried these? How different are they from the sylvania gold pins 408A?_

 

I can not say anything about the sylvania gold pins 408A but I have the GE408A with golden pins and plain pins that works well as well as the RCA 408A I just recently aquired. Western Electric is my third choice and it is the most common 408A tube. The sylvania plain pins are my last choice.


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *john57* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can not say anything about the sylvania gold pins 408A but I have the GE408A with golden pins and plain pins that works well as well as the RCA 408A I just recently aquired. Western Electric is my third choice and it is the most common 408A tube. The sylvania plain pins are my last choice._

 

Hrm, I have gold brand but not gold pin. I wonder if it's really worth my going and getting the other gold brand.


----------



## john57

Right now there is a sale of the 408A golden pins on Ebay labeled Westinghouse that might suit you. Right now I am using the 408A RCA plain pins on my Little Dot. I did had a problem with a Ebay seller that mix up the tubes that I requested and he send me more of the RCA 408A tubes that are working especially well and my total cost was $1.66 per tube. It was a very good bargain. The 408A tubes were originally made for high frequency telephone switching devices and there is not many amps today that can use the 408A tubes. You just have to be sure to move the heater voltage jumper pins back to normal if you are using a different family of tubes on the Little Dot. I have noticed that the 408A tubes that I have are very low in Microphonics, far better that the 12AX7 and the 6DJ8 tubes types that I am using in other equipment.


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PatOMalley* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You may need em and will have them when you do.

 I am not sure which tubes they may make a difference with - I just put them on as standard and never think about it after.

 and for the 91's what other revealing opamp is there but the LM4562?

 They combine to make a solid tone/timbre with extension and lots of inner detail.




_

 

Yeah, but mine doesn't sound right with teh LM4562, and using the goo stuff isn't on the top of my list of things I want to do to my amp. I'm okay with soldering a cap to the op amp. If I could get that damned thing to work right, I probably WOULD go for LM4562. It sounds good, but doesn't work in my setup.

 If there was a more forgiving op-amp with the same sound signature, I'd buy it, but right now I don't trust putting something that has static in one channel in my amp.


----------



## kb1014

Hi there!

 Long time no post here but... after reading for a "while" about Little Dot I+ I've just received my Little Dot I+ and want to share with all of you about opamp rolling. I have some experience in this area and for me and my Grados best SQ is from Analog Devices family of AD8599, AD8066 and AD8022. I highly recommend one of them (for me best works the AD8599 with WE408A tubes). Enjoy!

 PS: Really great little amp


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aynjell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, but mine doesn't sound right with teh LM4562, and using the goo stuff isn't on the top of my list of things I want to do to my amp. I'm okay with soldering a cap to the op amp. If I could get that damned thing to work right, I probably WOULD go for LM4562. It sounds good, but doesn't work in my setup.

 If there was a more forgiving op-amp with the same sound signature, I'd buy it, but right now I don't trust putting something that has static in one channel in my amp._

 

Have you tried more than one 4562?? They are very sensitive to static electricity, etc. and I was just wondering if perhaps the individual opamp might be faulty???


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trapper32* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you tried more than one 4562?? They are very sensitive to static electricity, etc. and I was just wondering if perhaps the individual opamp might be faulty???_

 

I talked t pat, s next time I order I'll probably order 4-5 of them. If none of them are good, I'll give up on it, but if I can get just one good one I'll be happy.


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aynjell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I talked t pat, s next time I order I'll probably order 4-5 of them. If none of them are good, I'll give up on it, but if I can get just one good one I'll be happy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Let us know how it turns out when you get some more.


----------



## PatOMalley

There was a set of single opamps, the AD825, which was close to the LM4562 but with a little more bass oomph up into the lower mids.

Reference Audio Mods Has them but the only issue is will it fit between the caps?


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PatOMalley* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There was a set of single opamps, the AD825, which was close to the LM4562 but with a little more bass oomph up into the lower mids.

Reference Audio Mods Has them but the only issue is will it fit between the caps?




_

 

That's a single channel op amp. right? You'd need the dual version, wouldn't you?


----------



## Aynjell

Ah, looks like we'd need this:

AD825 Module Type 2, Dual AD825, 8 Pin/DIL, 11/16"L x 5/8"W x 9/16"H: Reference Audio Mods


----------



## PatOMalley

It's a single but there are two on that board. One on top and one under.


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PatOMalley* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's a single but there are two on that board. One on top and one under._

 

I didn't realize.

 The documentation does say 1 AD825 on your example, and 2 AD825 on the example I linked. I doubt there are two, to be honest. How do you know?


----------



## PatOMalley

no, your right. I linked the wrong one.
 anyway, that is a worthy opamp set.
 The 4562 is far more transparent and open, sort of like there is no opamp there. the color that the AD has is not a negative to me and I like it just fine. I really wanted to try one but I am not sure if it will for between the caps and didn't want to risk the $40 to find out.

 Dang. I suppose just asking the seller what the dimensions of the board is would fix that worry.


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PatOMalley* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_no, your right. I linked the wrong one.
 anyway, that is a worthy opamp set.
 The 4562 is far more transparent and open, sort of like there is no opamp there. the color that the AD has is not a negative to me and I like it just fine. I really wanted to try one but I am not sure if it will for between the caps and didn't want to risk the $40 to find out.

 Dang. I suppose just asking the seller what the dimensions of the board is would fix that worry._

 

If you find out, let me know. I may try one down the road.

 Next month is when I'm going to put another order in for op-amps. Content figuring out these EF91's. They've been the most graceful tubes to burn in. I put them in and they sounded good from day one. And the glow is pleasing.


----------



## oblivious

hi all, looking at potentially getting this amp very very soon, and was wondering if any once has experience 6AK5 Pentode tubes on this amp? and how they found them. Cheers!


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oblivious* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi all, looking at potentially getting this amp very very soon, and was wondering if any once has experience 6AK5 Pentode tubes on this amp? and how they found them. Cheers!_

 

Not sure how you might find them, but it does appear to be supported (using the 6JI jumper settings).

 Past that, I know nothing. O


----------



## Rotomoto

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oblivious* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi all, looking at potentially getting this amp very very soon, and was wondering if any once has experience 6AK5 Pentode tubes on this amp? and how they found them. Cheers!_

 

I've got a matched set of Valve Electonics 6ak5 tubes, and I'm not very impressed. Compared to the stock tubes, the highs are recessed and they lack detail. I suppose they might match well with a bright set of cans, but I'm putting them back in their boxes.


----------



## Brian_the_King

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *morfic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, i just measured the DC Offset of the LT1364 in the I+ And it is at 28mV, almost 1.5x what Tangent recommends as a safe value to ensure you do not cook your phones.
 So for anyone interested in using this opamp, it's not a suitable choice in the I+ w/o changing the circuitry to compensate for the increased DC offset.

 For anyone interested in opamp rolling, stick to FET based opamps or check that the bipolar transistor's "Input Bias Current" is in the nA or less range (LME49720/LM4562 are this low and thus they work, FET based opamps are in pA range)
 The uA input bias current which is more typical for bipolar opamps can cause a large enough DC Offset to be worrysome.
 Data sheets are easily available via google, easy to double check this before using any bipolar opamps.

*LM4562/LME49720 are a notable exception, 1mV of DC offset is nothing to worry about.*_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aynjell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...I am sure only two of these might be decent but from what I'm seeing only the LT1364 is a real serious upgrade for this amp, aside from the LM4562..._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Rotomoto* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, I just loaded in my new LT1364 opamp (per aynjell's suggestion) in my I+.
 First of all, after I ordered it, I did a little digging through this thread and noticed that some people had some high DC offset measurements with this opamp, which concerned me. As soon as I installed it, I let it settle in for 10 mins or so and measured my offset at the headphone ouputs. It was 18mv plus or minus .5mv in each channel. A tad high, but certainly safe enough for me.
 So far, I only have a few hours of burn time on it. It sounds more forward than the stock opamp. The highs are more prominent, borderline edgy-bright. I'm hoping this will settle after some burn-in. The low end has filled in nicely and seems well controlled. 
 What I'm really seeking is that tubey, liquid sound. Is this possible with this amp? 
 My amp still has the stock tubes. Gain is at 3db. I'm going to do some listening for the next week or so with this setup to get used to it, but would definitely like to start rolling some tubes shortly._

 

I could go on quoting posts from this thread, but I think this is enough to quantify my confusion. Does anyone else care to comment? Is the LT1364 really unsuitable for use in the LDI+? It seems to me that a fair number of people have deployed an LT1364 in their LDI+'s with positive results... I know very little about op-amp rolling or op-amps themselves so I would appreciate any explanation that can be offered.


----------



## Rotomoto

After I spent more time with my LT1364, I concluded that it's too edgy/sibilant for me. I also didn't care for the highish dc offset measurements that I got. I've settled on the LME49720, which has negligeable dc offset <1mv. It also more detailed than the stock opamp with out being too bright. Of course, everyones opinion will differ on sound qualities of different opamps. The LME49720 sounds great and puts out safer dc offset levels.


----------



## Brian_the_King

Thank you for replying Rotomoto, since I posted last I have done a fair amount of research and very likely will end up trying out an LME49720 to compare to the stock op-amp. I wrote my last post because I just recently purchased (have not received) an LDI+, a matched pair of WE408A's and an LT1364, which I obviously did not look into thoroughly enough.

 I do have one final question though; could one say that the LM4562/LME49720 is OBJECTIVELY an upgrade from the MC33078? Or is this simply a boutique form of equalization?


----------



## Rotomoto

Yes. And to add, IMHO the LM4562 and the LME49720 do NOT sound the same. I own both, and the LME is the superior opamp.


----------



## Brian_the_King

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Rotomoto* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes. And to add, IMHO the LM4562 and the LME49720 do NOT sound the same. I own both, and the LME is the superior opamp._

 

Interesting, I heard the same thing on another forum even though the characteristics of the two chips are supposedly identical.

 In any case, I purchased an LME49720 earlier today. Now the waiting game


----------



## Aynjell

I've swapped the LT1364 out for the stock op-amp, and damn it I'm impressed with the combo it makes with the EF91. Very powerful, clear, and clean. A combo that typically doesn't come in the same package with this amp. You either get clean, with tight bass, but to have both is just mind blowing. o.o

 (not perfect yet, but I think I may have found some of my favorite tubes)

 By the way, there's a very militant following behind the LT1364 especially when combined with the gold brand sylvania's... but after rolling around with both, I can't say either really impressed me. These EF91's are eargasms.


----------



## V3ng3anc3

Heh can't wait to try out that combo. I'm still waiting for the amp to arrive, it's stuck in Hong Kong. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My tubes and op-amps are all here already though. I completely did not expect the tubes to be so tiny, thought they would be a bit larger. I wonder if there is any significant difference soundwise between the EF91 and M8083 which is supposed to be a EF91.

 Also how do I go about applying DeoxIT on the tube pins? I got the one with the brush. Should I apply it onto a q-tip to keep the brush clean? And from there clean the tube pins.


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *V3ng3anc3* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Heh can't wait to try out that combo. I'm still waiting for the amp to arrive, it's stuck in Hong Kong. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My tubes and op-amps are all here already though. I completely did not expect the tubes to be so tiny, thought they would be a bit larger. I wonder if there is any significant difference soundwise between the EF91 and M8083 which is supposed to be a EF91.

 Also how do I go about applying DeoxIT on the tube pins? I got the one with the brush. Should I apply it onto a q-tip to keep the brush clean? And from there clean the tube pins._

 

No idea. I use a wired brush and just carefully brush the pins until they're nice n' shiny. 

 Personally, I don't think deoxit would take anything out that my free brushing would and I haven't damaged any tubes doing it. 

 But I imagine deoxit probably requires a tooth brushing at least.


----------



## V3ng3anc3

Hmm alright, guess I'll try finding some spare toothbrush and try that out.


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *V3ng3anc3* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm alright, guess I'll try finding some spare toothbrush and try that out._

 


 Be sure to take before and after pictures and note the time taken. My method takes about 30 minutes for a set of tubes. BTW, vengenace, I have M8083.


----------



## V3ng3anc3

Quote:


 Be sure to take before and after pictures and note the time taken. 
 

Sure thing. I might try to use a q-tip for one of my tubes to see how it goes since I don't have a spare toothbrush or brush atm.
  Quote:


 My method takes about 30 minutes for a set of tubes. 
 

o.o That seems kind of long, I would have imagined it to take around 10 mins for a pair.
  Quote:


 BTW, vengenace, I have M8083. 
 

Ohhh...haha. That's good to know, thought we had different tubes.


----------



## V3ng3anc3

Alright so I tried to clean my CV4010 tube with deoxit and q-tip, here are the results.

 Before:
Imageshack - p1010695d.jpg
Imageshack - p1010700z.jpg

 Midway Through: 
Imageshack - p1010706a.jpg
Imageshack - p1010707nu.jpg
 This was after I waited a couple of minutes for the deoxit to settle then attempting to clean it was a q-tip. Didn't really do much.

 After:
Imageshack - p1010708yb.jpg
Imageshack - p1010710z.jpg
 This is the final result after I gave up using the q-tip and just straight up used the deoxit brush, brushing it repeatedly. It did a lot better job but I think I definitely need some kind of brush.

 Almost forgot, for the whole ordeal I spent nearly 25mins including waiting for the deoxit to settle.


----------



## Aynjell

While my process requires a great deal of finnesse, the results are staggeringly better. I'll take some before and after shots of my tubes after some wire brushing. One thing I will say is I'm not using a wire brush like you'd use to remove tar from a fender well or something, something a lot more like a too brush but with wires coming out of it. It's very thin and delicate, so it's not going to bend or break the pins...

 Only concern I have is I may be removing some type of coating on the pins, but I'm hesitant to believe I can scrape off anything that's supposed to be there. None of my tubes are gold pinned that I know of.


----------



## V3ng3anc3

Just received my Little Dot I+ about 30mins ago! Burning in the stock tubes now. :]


----------



## PatOMalley

A small file works great.
 run it across the pins, just a a slight scrape till you get the shine. THEN deoxit.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *V3ng3anc3* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Alright so I tried to clean my CV4010 tube with deoxit and q-tip, here are the results.

 Before:
Imageshack - p1010695d.jpg
Imageshack - p1010700z.jpg

 Midway Through: 
Imageshack - p1010706a.jpg
Imageshack - p1010707nu.jpg
 This was after I waited a couple of minutes for the deoxit to settle then attempting to clean it was a q-tip. Didn't really do much.

 After:
Imageshack - p1010708yb.jpg
Imageshack - p1010710z.jpg
 This is the final result after I gave up using the q-tip and just straight up used the deoxit brush, brushing it repeatedly. It did a lot better job but I think I definitely need some kind of brush.

 Almost forgot, for the whole ordeal I spent nearly 25mins including waiting for the deoxit to settle._


----------



## V3ng3anc3

Quote:


 A small file works great.
 run it across the pins, just a a slight scrape till you get the shine. THEN deoxit. 
 

I'll have to give that a try, thanks Pat!


----------



## schwallman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *V3ng3anc3* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just received my Little Dot I+ about 30mins ago! Burning in the stock tubes now. :]_

 

Did you get it from David? I don't even think mines shipped yet.


----------



## V3ng3anc3

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *schwallman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you get it from David? I don't even think mines shipped yet._

 

Yeah, I ordered it directly from David, about the day they got back from Chinese New Year vacation. But it took over a week before I got my invoice because they were out of stock on some things.


----------



## V3ng3anc3

Hmm...I find it kind of hard to tell if there is an actual improvement in the sound quality through the Little Dot I+ from straight out of my D4. I think with the stock setup it sounds about the same, but a little sharp on the highs. With the CV4010+LT1364, I think it's a little more detailed but it's hard to say. It can definitely drive the Grado better, brings more of the details and instruments out, without it being turned way loud like on the D4.


----------



## parskey

another vote for the cv4010+lt1364 the sound is completely transformed for the better this was an amazing investment.


----------



## hockeypuck

Make that three in a row for the LT1364 opamp + CV4010 combo. I bought a $20 pair of Mullard CV4010 tubes from eBay (NOS, unmatched). I don't have audiophile golden ears, but with Grado 325is my eyes did 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 after flipping the switch and started listening. IMHO the combination is a great complement to the 325is. Bass is more defined without becoming boomy and the richness in the mids remains intact. If I had to describe it in a short phrase I would say that the combo adds fullness to the 325is' aggressiveness. I have stock 6J1 and Western Electric 408A tubes for comparison.

 The Little Dot I+/LT1364/CV4010 is the perfect amp for my 325is. I too echo the "investment" sentiment given how cheap the I+ is. I don't intend to upgrade to a different amp or tube until I get my next case of headphone upgraditis. For now all that money burning a hole in my pocket is going towards expanding my music library 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## parskey

Yeah I dont see myself upgrading for a while because I really like tubes so I would want to go to a wa6 and thats just a little cheaper than my entire setup so it will be a while.


----------



## archigius

Hi, i'm thinking to buy a Little Dot 1+ to use it with my RS-1.

 I have an idea of the kind of tube sound i could like.

 Two days ago i experimented with Foobar 2000, FLAC files and a plugin called convolver. 
 The DAC/amp was my trusted Meier Corda 2Move.
 I used the imput files "*Convolver tube amps*" that you can download from here:
Sjeng - chess, audio and misc. software

 The imput that i prefer is:

*SPL TubeVitalizer Impulse Tight High LCFilter.wav
*
 thr mids are liquid, warm, smooth;
 the bass is full but not bloathed;
 the hights are silky and sweet, clear but not fatiguing.

 I have always loved my RS-1 since the first time i heard them, but it seems that this tubey sound makes me like them even better!!

 Can you suggest me a tube with this kind of sound?


----------



## PatOMalley

I did like the Amperex branded Mullards.
 Smooth detail, no edge, a lot of bass, full mids, but a light touch in the upper mids and up. 


 Got them here: 33Audio Vacuum Tubes-Amperex-RCA-Motorola-Sylvania 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oblivious* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi all, looking at potentially getting this amp very very soon, and was wondering if any once has experience 6AK5 Pentode tubes on this amp? and how they found them. Cheers!_


----------



## markkr

I received my Little Dot I+ in the mail yesterday. I think I was hoping for too much and am very disappointed so far... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I listen to classic rock and more current hard rock/metal...

 I tried EF91, EF92, 408a I also tried a 1364 opamp... (I have an LME49720 that I haven't tried yet)

 The classic rock sounds good because all of the revealing problems in the recording are covered up but current rock/metal sounds horrible no matter which configuration I try. 

 I'm sitting here with EF92 and 1364 opamp listening to the Rolling Stones and it sounds pretty good, but not versatile for other genres at all so far...

 HELP 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Any suggestions for rock/metal? (Metalica, Linkin Park, Alice In Chains)

 PS. using MicroDAC fed by MacBook Pro via toslink to either 225's or RS2's. Please indicate WHERE to get the recommended tubes... I FAIL at finding these things!!


----------



## DoYouKnowJim?

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markkr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I received my Little Dot I+ in the mail yesterday. I think I was hoping for too much and am very disappointed so far... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I listen to classic rock and more current hard rock/metal...

 I tried EF91, EF92, 408a I also tried a 1364 opamp... (I have an LME49720 that I haven't tried yet)

 The classic rock sounds good because all of the revealing problems in the recording are covered up but current rock/metal sounds horrible no matter which configuration I try. 

 I'm sitting here with EF92 and 1364 opamp listening to the Rolling Stones and it sounds pretty good, but not versatile for other genres at all so far...

 HELP 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Any suggestions for rock/metal? (Metalica, Linkin Park, Alice In Chains)

 PS. using MicroDAC fed by MacBook Pro via toslink to either 225's or RS2's. Please indicate WHERE to get the recommended tubes... I FAIL at finding these things!!_

 

That's because modern rock is recorded horribly and has no dynamic range at all (Loudness war - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). The more transparent your system the more you will hear just how bad a lot of newer recordings are.


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markkr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I received my Little Dot I+ in the mail yesterday. I think I was hoping for too much and am very disappointed so far... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I listen to classic rock and more current hard rock/metal...

 I tried EF91, EF92, 408a I also tried a 1364 opamp... (I have an LME49720 that I haven't tried yet)

 The classic rock sounds good because all of the revealing problems in the recording are covered up but current rock/metal sounds horrible no matter which configuration I try. 

 I'm sitting here with EF92 and 1364 opamp listening to the Rolling Stones and it sounds pretty good, but not versatile for other genres at all so far...

 HELP 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Any suggestions for rock/metal? (Metalica, Linkin Park, Alice In Chains)

 PS. using MicroDAC fed by MacBook Pro via toslink to either 225's or RS2's. Please indicate WHERE to get the recommended tubes... I FAIL at finding these things!!_

 


 All will sound like garbage on headphones unless you have some very distorting cans.

 Try the same setup with something like Depeche Mode's Ultra, A Perfect Circle's Thirteenth Step, or Pink Floyd's Division Bell. These are all well recorded albums, in my opinion and reveal what your setup can do.


----------



## markkr

Ok... so after many, many, many hours of sampling different tubes and opamps (and thoroughly pissing off my Wife)... I've settled on the cheap Sylvania 408a and 1364 opamp.

 I ordered some different 408a's as well. A matched set of WE, TungSol, and a set of 4010's on ebay to try. I spent more on tubes so far than I did for the amp!! 

 Oh well, guess this is what its all about.

 BTW: anyone else notice that there are 47 pages to this thread but 45 shows up as the last page???


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markkr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok... so after many, many, many hours of sampling different tubes and opamps (and thoroughly pissing off my Wife)... I've settled on the cheap Sylvania 408a and 1364 opamp.

 I ordered some different 408a's as well. A matched set of WE, TungSol, and a set of 4010's on ebay to try. I spent more on tubes so far than I did for the amp!! 

 Oh well, guess this is what its all about.

 BTW: anyone else notice that there are 47 pages to this thread but 45 shows up as the last page???_

 

It's an issue with the forum software head-fi uses. 

 that being said, what's the best way to test my amps dc offset? I want to make sure that my amp is going to blow my headphones out. I'm using the LT1364/408A setup right now and I've heard that offset can be high with this combo.

 Also, I suppose I should order the LM4526 again to see if i can get a better unit.


----------



## markkr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aynjell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_that being said, what's the best way to test my amps dc offset? I want to make sure that my amp is going to blow my headphones out. I'm using the LT1364/408A setup right now and I've heard that offset can be high with this combo._

 

oh man... please tell me I'm not hurting my brand new RS2's


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markkr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_oh man... please tell me I'm not hurting my brand new RS2's_

 

LT1364 can be dangerous, I've read some people having huge offsets. I'd measure it, but I have no idea how. I imagine you'd have to remove the bottom and measure while in use?


----------



## john57

If DC offset is going to be a problem it will show up at the output since I think that the Little Dot 1+ is directly coupled and does not use a cap at the output to block the DC.


----------



## Aynjell

I am not sure if I am testing this right but I believe I am. I have connected a cable with a 1/4 end to my headphone jack and I come up with 0.

 My DMM is kind of crappy albeit, but I have it set to DCV 200M, and the black is plugged into COM, and the red is plugged into 10ADC and it comes out to 00.0

 if I use V(ohm)mA it's 12-14ish. (This number doesn't change when moving to the stock OPA, or at least not by much.)

 So either I'm doing it wrong or I can't find any dc offset issues. :\


----------



## markkr

forgive my ignorance here, but I looked up DC offset on the web and I have NO idea what it is.. or how its harmful to headphones. Would someone mind putting it into plain (stupid English) for me? 

 Thanks... (I think I'm going back to the stock opamp ASAP... I killed my wallet for these RS2's and if I ruin them... my Wife will kill me!


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markkr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_forgive my ignorance here, but I looked up DC offset on the web and I have NO idea what it is.. or how its harmful to headphones. Would someone mind putting it into plain (stupid English) for me? 

 Thanks... (I think I'm going back to the stock opamp ASAP... I killed my wallet for these RS2's and if I ruin them... my Wife will kill me! _

 

DC offset can apparently reposition the drivers causing them to sound terrible. I am not sure how much DC offset is out of bounds, but I am not sure even how to measure it or if my DMM can measure it accurately.


----------



## markkr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aynjell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_DC offset can apparently reposition the drivers causing them to sound terrible. I am not sure how much DC offset is out of bounds, but I am not sure even how to measure it or if my DMM can measure it accurately._

 

ahhhh, ok... thanks, that makes sense.


----------



## theryaner

So what's the final verdict? is the LT1364 harmful? Ive been using it for 2 weeks w/o any issues.


----------



## markkr

I've been communicating with David at LD about this issue, he says they have not tested other opamps, and therefore cannot recommend any others. He did not discourage opamp rolling, but recommends being careful if you dont know what your doing (as I do not).

 Hopefully someone here is an EE, and can chime in???


----------



## Aynjell

I would have to measure it, but will need instructions on how to do so properly.


----------



## theryaner

Ah alright. I think if people were having issues with the op-amp, would have said something here by now.


----------



## john57

I do know that the standard op-amp MC33078 used in the Little Dot 1+ has lower noise 4.5 nV/√Hz vs the LT1364 9nV/√Hz Input Noise Voltage and a max Input offset current of 150nA on the standard op-amp vs the LT1364 350nA Maximum Input Offset Current as shown on the spec sheets. There is a thread that talks about the offset at http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/def...-offset-98680/

 I personally like the OPA2107 for its smooth and detailed sound.


----------



## Aynjell

Anybody think this amp can drive the AKG K701/702? Based on it's impedance and maximum input it looks like our amps can more than handle it's load. Also, I'm considering the following op-amps (Yeah never got around to ordering):

 OPA2107
 LM4562
 LME49720

 Anything I should add to this list? The more I order, the better so I save on shipping. Wanting to basically order up the definitive list of op amps. I already have:

 LT1364
 LM4562 (doesn't work)
 OPA2227
 OPA2134
 MCC33078 (stock opa)

 My tube range is:

 Sylvania GB408A
 Mullard EF91
 Mullard EF92

 Any tubes I should hunt down? I'm also seriously considering a little dot DAC, and also a hardware based crossfeed if I can find something that offers such functionality, that or DIY a linkwitz and do the full blown version with configurability. If I can get a K701, the dac, and a crossfeed, plus get this little amp fully configured the way I like it, I can then move on to something higher end for some HD600's or something, who knows.


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *john57* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I personally like the OPA2107 for its smooth and detailed sound._

 

After many different opamps I've finally settled on this one too. Nice all rounder and seems to be very stable as well.


----------



## markkr

How do you think the LME49720 compares to the 1364? and does it present the same DC Offset problems as the 1364?

 How would you compare both of the above with the OPA2107?


----------



## john57

I would say that according to the spec sheets the LME49720 is electrically better than the stock or the 1364. It has a wide range of operating voltage of 2.5 to 17 volts, low noise and low drift over temperature. How does it sounds sonically is another mater. I did try the LM4562NA which had good specs but did not like the sound.


----------



## Trapper32

Supposedly the LME 49720 is identical to the LM4562 and is just renamed as a part of marketing strategy?? In either case I found their sound too abrasive and unmusical for me. I enjoyed the 1364 but finally settled on the 2107. The 2107 had the bass and mids that I enjoy.. a more laid back sound. This is with the Grado 225. With other cans I may prefer different opamps.


----------



## markkr

My primary headphones with this amp are Grado 225i's. I like the sound of the 1364, but am concerned with the comments that it could be damaging my headphones.

 The stock opamp was a bit too laid back for me, If the 49720 is aggressive like the 1364, but safer I might be inclined to try it out. I definitely do not want a more laid back opamp than the stock one.


----------



## markkr

I got my hands on a 49720 this AM from a fellow headphone addict in my office. First impression is pretty good! It doesn't sound laid back to me at all.

 Does this opamp have any DC Offset issues like the 1364?\

 It seems like I need to turn the volume up much more with the 49720 than with the 1364


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markkr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got my hands on a 49720 this AM from a fellow headphone addict in my office. First impression is pretty good! It doesn't sound laid back to me at all.

 Does this opamp have any DC Offset issues like the 1364?\

 It seems like I need to turn the volume up much more with the 49720 than with the 1364_

 

That's a good thing for me. I only get a 1/4 turn into the knob before it's too loud. A bit more control would be welcome.

 I'll be ordering LM4562, and LME49720 sometime in the next week or two. Probably after next friday when I get paid. I'll also spring for an opa2107 for kicks and giggles.


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markkr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got my hands on a 49720 this AM from a fellow headphone addict in my office. First impression is pretty good! It doesn't sound laid back to me at all.

 Does this opamp have any DC Offset issues like the 1364?\

 It seems like I need to turn the volume up much more with the 49720 than with the 1364_

 

I haven't measured the dc offset on any opamps but myself and more than a few others have used the 1364 in the LD1+ with no problems. I liked the 4562/49720 initially also as it seemed to bring more detail retrieval to the music. But eventually it grated on me and I didn't enjoy listening. Of course its all about the synergy and YOUR ears so you may find it fits your needs perfectly.

 Have you tried the Russian Groove tubes. I have a feeling you may enjoy them with your tastes in music. Definitely a great bang for yer buck tube.


----------



## markkr

I'm listening at 1/4 turn and its normal listening volume with the 49720. 

 With the 1364 it was more like 1/8th turn for the same volume.

 Do these opamps require break-in?


----------



## markkr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trapper32* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you tried the Russian Groove tubes. I have a feeling you may enjoy them with your tastes in music. Definitely a great bang for yer buck tube._

 

Forgive my ignorance (and laziness for not searching) but what are "Russian Groove tubes" specifically? and where would I find them?

 Is the 49720 supposed to be more "harsh" than the 1364?

 Thanks


----------



## theryaner

I just purchased the OPA2107... This DC offset talk pushed me into it, lol.


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markkr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Forgive my ignorance (and laziness for not searching) but what are "Russian Groove tubes" specifically? and where would I find them?

 Is the 49720 supposed to be more "harsh" than the 1364?

 Thanks_

 

Its the Russian equivalent of the 6ak5. It has three vertical grooves in the tube glass and it has a great impact with rock music so you can "groove" to the music. The designation that I particularly like is the 6j1p-ev made at the Voskhod factory in the 70s . I tried another version that I didn't particularly like. You can pick them up quite cheap on eBay but I'd enquire of the seller if they had the 3 vertical grooves and were made at Voshkod.

 I found the 49720 harsher than the 1364.


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theryaner* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just purchased the OPA2107... This DC offset talk pushed me into it, lol._

 

I, and a few others with the LD 1+, think its a really good fit especially with the Grados. Let us know what you think of it.


----------



## markkr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theryaner* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just purchased the OPA2107... This DC offset talk pushed me into it, lol._

 

Where did you order it from? It doesn't look like Digikey had them in stock...


----------



## theryaner

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markkr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where did you order it from? It doesn't look like Digikey had them in stock..._

 

ordered it from here: TEXAS INSTRUMENTS|OPA2107AP|Operational Amplifier (Op-Amp | Newark.com


----------



## markkr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theryaner* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ordered it from here: TEXAS INSTRUMENTS|OPA2107AP|Operational Amplifier (Op-Amp | Newark.com_

 

Perfect, thank you!

 Ordered


----------



## markkr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trapper32* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Its the Russian equivalent of the 6ak5. It has three vertical grooves in the tube glass and it has a great impact with rock music so you can "groove" to the music. The designation that I particularly like is the 6j1p-ev made at the Voskhod factory in the 70s . I tried another version that I didn't particularly like. You can pick them up quite cheap on eBay but I'd enquire of the seller if they had the 3 vertical grooves and were made at Voshkod.

 I found the 49720 harsher than the 1364._

 

I cant seem to find these on ebay, I do see lots of 6ak5's and 6j1p-ev's but none of them have grooves like you describe.


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markkr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I cant seem to find these on ebay, I do see lots of 6ak5's and 6j1p-ev's but none of them have grooves like you describe._

 

I just looked at a few and saw some that looked like they had the grooves. You'd have to ask if they were from Voshkod and if they knew the date of manufacture. Item # 110440675090 was just one that looked like it had the grooves.


----------



## markkr

I'm getting closer to heaven... LME49720 and WE408a + 225i and Pink Floyd...

 This is ALMOST the sound I want, a little more bass would be nice. 

 Oddly my RS2's dont sound very good (very bass weak) compared to the 225i's with this combo

 I ordered an OPA2107 yesterday, hopefully that works out and I can be off this rollercoaster!


----------



## theryaner

I just installed the OPA2107 today, and wow! HUGE difference compared to the 1364. This will definitely keep the skeptics on whether op-amps changes anything quiet. I literally just installed it about 10 mins ago so I won't write a huge report. But from what I can tell it's a lot smoother and less analytical than the 1364, good match with my grado 325is's. Music feels more organic and less "electronic" than the 1364, possibly more refined. To sum it it up, it basically has a similar effect to installing mullard tubes and will slightly sennheiser your grados.

 @markkr

 If you want more bass, I recommend these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWNX:IT

 These has a much more powerful presentation than my m8100's. I cannot comment on the tubes you're using but these might be what you're looking for.


----------



## markkr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theryaner* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@markkr

 If you want more bass, I recommend these:

M8083/CV4014/EF91 MULLARD NOS MATCHED PAIR - eBay (item 310087990802 end time May-22-10 03:11:15 PDT)

 These has a much more powerful presentation than my m8100's. I cannot comment on the tubes you're using but these might be what you're looking for._

 

It just so happens... that I have a pair of these that I haven't tried yet. I bought them from a fellow head-fi'er about a month ago and just haven't gotten around to them yet.


----------



## markkr

What family is the 4014 in? (so I set the jumpers correctly)

 some posts look like they're EF91's others say EF95... 

 Also, I received a SECOND set of 408a tubes (TungSol) from a completely different source and one of them doesnt work... is this a common problem? The pins are clean, it just produces no sound???


----------



## theryaner

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markkr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What family is the 4014 in? (so I set the jumpers correctly)

 some posts look like they're EF91's others say EF95... 

 Also, I received a SECOND set of 408a tubes (TungSol) from a completely different source and one of them doesnt work... is this a common problem? The pins are clean, it just produces no sound???_

 

I'm pretty sure they are EF91's.


----------



## markkr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theryaner* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm pretty sure they are EF91's._

 

Do 91's and 95's use the same jumper settings? The manual online doesn't list a setting for the 95's. (This amp too far too long to receive to blow it up so soon)


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markkr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do 91's and 95's use the same jumper settings? The manual online doesn't list a setting for the 95's. (This amp too far too long to receive to blow it up so soon)_

 

the 91 shares the same setting as the 92

 the 95 is the equivalent of the 6ak5 and uses a different setting than the 91/92

 and of course the 408a is completely different setting again


 and theryaner is correct that the 4014 is equivalent to the 91


----------



## markkr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trapper32* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the 91 shares the same setting as the 92

 the 95 is the equivalent of the 6ak5 and uses a different setting than the 91/92

 and of course the 408a is completely different setting again


 and theryaner is correct that the 4014 is equivalent to the 91_

 

Great, thanks guys!


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markkr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great, thanks guys!_

 

Yep, which means 408a/6ji jumper needs to be on 6ji setting, and ef92 jumper needs to be on.


----------



## theryaner

ahhhh!!! unfortunately my brand new 4014's have been glitching out and I really don't know why. It was working fine for about 2 days and it started developing a static hiss,and the left channel would light up really bright on start up. Oh well, I think I like my 8100's more anyways.


----------



## markkr

I'm hearing random static on both channels... no matter which tubes. I think its the 49720 opamp doing it... My 2107 should be here this week 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'm TRYING to talk the Wife into letting me order a second LD I+ to keep at home. The other one lives at my desk at work. So far: NO GO


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markkr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm hearing random static on both channels... no matter which tubes. I think its the 49720 opamp doing it... My 2107 should be here this week 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm TRYING to talk the Wife into letting me order a second LD I+ to keep at home. The other one lives at my desk at work. So far: NO GO_

 


 That's why you order up something different instead without asking. It's better to ask for forgiveness than permission, you know it?


----------



## markkr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aynjell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's why you order up something different instead without asking. It's better to ask for forgiveness than permission, you know it?_

 

That's what I normally do, however I didn't exactly ask for permission for the first LD I+... doing it twice within a month might be pushing my luck.


----------



## markkr

What family are the 4010's in? (jumpers settings question again)

 I'll be comparing my new 4010 and 4014 tubes tomorrow. (I've gotten very use to the 408a's)

 Thanks


----------



## markkr

do the CV4010 and CV4014 use the SAME jumper settings???


----------



## john57

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markkr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_do the CV4010 and CV4014 use the SAME jumper settings???_

 

Nope, the two tubes CV4010 and CV4014 and NOT in the same tube family. 

 The CV4010 is in the 6JI family and the CV4014 is in the EF91 group. 

 Also after using the 408A tubes to others types, you must move the 408A jumpers (there is two) back to 6JI otherwise damage is going to happen because you can not have 20v heater voltage on a 6v tube and the Little Dot itself can also be damaged. Be sure you have correct information before you change jumpers or tubes.

 To use WE408A tubes:
 1. K1 and K2 set to the side of the “WE408A” text
 2. Make sure the jumper caps are removed from J1 and J2 (open circuit)
 To use 6JI, 6AK5, 5654, WE403A/B, etc:
 1. K1 and K2 set to the side of the “6JI” text
 2. Make sure the jumper caps are removed from J1 and J2 (open circuit)
 To use EF91, EF92, CV131, CV138, etc:
 1. K1 and K2 set to the side of the “6JI” text
 2. Make sure the jumpers caps are in place over both J1 and J2 (short circuit)

 This is from Littledot.net web site.


----------



## markkr

Thanks John

 I've been super careful about changing the tubes, being patient until I verify which family/jumper setting to set.

 Is there a master list of which tubes belong to which family? That would be incredibly helpful


----------



## john57

There is also a third pair of jumpers J3 and J4 that controls the gain for the system. Since my inputs are fairly hot I just leave those jumpers on the default low setting.


----------



## markkr

I'm set to the low gain as well since I only plug Grado's into the amp.

 Today I received my 2107 opamp, now I have too many choices and cant make up my mind!

 I have 4 opamps (stock, 1364, 49720, 2107), 3 different 408a's (Sylvania, WE, TungSol), Mullard EF91, Ediswan EF92, Valve 4010, Valve 4014...

 I think I over-did it on ebay... now my head is spinning. LOL


----------



## markkr

One of my WE408a's is brighter on the top of the tube than the other one... is that normal?


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markkr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One of my WE408a's is brighter on the top of the tube than the other one... is that normal?_

 

They're not manufactured with pinpoint accuracy. One of my GB408A's is darker than the other all around. The sound doesn't seem to be too much different from side to side.


----------



## markkr

I found the sweet spot for my ears!! WOW, its awesome...

 OPA2107 & CV4010

 I think I'm finally done clogging up this thread for a while


----------



## drewfus420

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markkr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I found the sweet spot for my ears!! WOW, its awesome...

 OPA2107 & CV4010

 I think I'm finally done clogging up this thread for a while 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Funny thing is I just got a LD1+ from a member here last night and swapped out to this exact combo because the tubes are what I settled on for my MK II and had some spares and the OPA2107 has been my favorite in various CMoy's.

 I quite like the sound of the 1+, I am using it on my bedside table (I fall asleep with my MS1000's on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) and find it to be close to the quality of sound of my main desktop rigs LD MK II. 
 If only these had the room inside for one of my many discreet opamps...


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *drewfus420* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Funny thing is I just got a LD1+ from a member here last night and swapped out to this exact combo because the tubes are what I settled on for my MK II and had some spares and the OPA2107 has been my favorite in various CMoy's.

 I quite like the sound of the 1+, I am using it on my bedside table (I fall asleep with my MS1000's on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) and find it to be close to the quality of sound of my main desktop rigs LD MK II. 
 If only these had the room inside for one of my many discreet opamps..._

 

I wish there was an option for a different case. I'd imagine there is probably a case with similar dimensions you could buy that you could just put the bottom on it. Like, take the bottom and front plates off, install front plates onto top, and install the longer bottom. Dunno if such an item exists, but it'd be ba if it did.


----------



## markkr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aynjell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wish there was an option for a different case. I'd imagine there is probably a case with similar dimensions you could buy that you could just put the bottom on it. Like, take the bottom and front plates off, install front plates onto top, and install the longer bottom. Dunno if such an item exists, but it'd be ba if it did. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'd like an upgraded volume pot, this one is smooth but feels cheap... (I know, the amp was only $104) but upgrade options would be nice!


----------



## Aynjell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markkr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd like an upgraded volume pot, this one is smooth but feels cheap... (I know, the amp was only $104) but upgrade options would be nice!_

 

I wouldn't mind trying to implement the volume ideas that were came up with by corda. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway, I've moved away from my Sylvania 408A entirely for one particular reason: They are the most micro-phonic tubes I own. I can hear a constant throbbing sound only reduce by me blocking the tubes with my hand. I believe it has to do with a cordless phone we've added to our home. I may have to test this, but if this IS the case, I will no longer be able to use them.


----------



## markkr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aynjell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wouldn't mind trying to implement the volume ideas that were came up with by corda. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway, I've moved away from my Sylvania 408A entirely for one particular reason: They are the most micro-phonic tubes I own. I can hear a constant throbbing sound only reduce by me blocking the tubes with my hand. I believe it has to do with a cordless phone we've added to our home. I may have to test this, but if this IS the case, I will no longer be able to use them._

 

That's weird, the Sylvania 408A's are the only tubes I own that do NOT exhibit any monophonic's.


----------



## john57

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aynjell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wouldn't mind trying to implement the volume ideas that were came up with by corda. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway, I've moved away from my Sylvania 408A entirely for one particular reason: They are the most micro-phonic tubes I own. I can hear a constant throbbing sound only reduce by me blocking the tubes with my hand. I believe it has to do with a cordless phone we've added to our home. I may have to test this, but if this IS the case, I will no longer be able to use them._

 

The issue you are having is not micphonic _ sensitivity to physical vibration_ but RF interference. I will explain how I deal with that issue, time permitting. In your case it may not be just with the tubes. Stay tune!


----------



## profsbg

Can anyone offer an opinion on how my current combination of Sylvania GB-408a & LT1364 would compare with Mullard 8100 & OPA2107? I like jazz and classical with Grado SR325i. Thanks


----------



## markkr

2107 vs 1364: 2107 will provide more midrange (but not too much) with less emphasis on the highs, although they are still very present and clear. Bass is about the same IMO.

 408a vs 8100: the 8100 will have a larger soundstage and IMO has provides better/tighter bass punch. Also the treble with the 8100 sounds more airy to me.


----------



## archigius

Hi, i need some help.

 I've just received a Little Dot 1 + with the WE 408a.

 I noticed that in the box there are 3 spare jumpers: is this the correct stock endowment for these? And while one is exactly like those mounted in the the amp, 2 are slightly different:






 And another question: can someone please post me a photo with the correct jumper settings for the the EF92? I'm afraid to make some mistake with the jumpers and to break the tubes!


----------



## WayTooCrazy

I just joined the LD + owner's group. I just got the base model for now, and trying to read through this Loooong thread (and comprehend.. 'cause I'm clueless). Though, I already like the stock setup with my modified Grados... excellent for Jazz (been playing Diane Krall non-stop while burning this in). It's worked well for all genres... with the exception of Hip-hop... the bass just sounds awful (David Guetta stuff). Not that it upsets me that much, as I barely ever listen to that anyway. ...and when I feel the need, I just pop the Grados out of the LD + and put them into the uDac and it works well.


----------



## markkr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WayTooCrazy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just joined the LD + owner's group. I just got the base model for now, and trying to read through this Loooong thread (and comprehend.. 'cause I'm clueless). Though, I already like the stock setup with my modified Grados... excellent for Jazz (been playing Diane Krall non-stop while burning this in). It's worked well for all genres... with the exception of Hip-hop... the bass just sounds awful (David Guetta stuff). Not that it upsets me that much, as I barely ever listen to that anyway. ...and when I feel the need, I just pop the Grados out of the LD + and put them into the uDac and it works well._

 

Welcome! 

 If I could start all over again... I would purchase an OPA2107 opamp FIRST then worry about finding a tube that you like. Its a great $15 upgrade.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markkr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Welcome! 

 If I could start all over again... I would purchase an OPA2107 opamp FIRST then worry about finding a tube that you like. Its a great $15 upgrade._

 

don't say that... I JUST ordered the LT1364 from Newark.


----------



## markkr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WayTooCrazy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_don't say that... I JUST ordered the LT1364 from Newark.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I have a 1364 as well as a 49720... IMO the 2107 was much more refined sounding. (I use 100% Grado's with this amp) I ordered the 2107 from Newark as well... see if you can add it to your order. Its WELL worth it!


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Well, I've only had the amp for 2 days now (22 hrs on it)... I think I'll see how I like the 1364 with the 6J1 tubes. I'm picking up a AH-D2000 this weekend, so hopefully this combination will work ok with those too.


----------



## archigius

Please, can anybody post me a picture with the correnct jumper settings for the EF92 tubes?


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Is there an on-line store (in the U.S.) where I can buy Tubes for the LD I+?  I'm looking for 'Tung Sol 6028' (I read those and LT1364 had awesome synergy with AKG K701/702 - even though I don't have it yet, but want to be prepared).  I don't really like buying eBay, so... I'm just looking for a good source to get them.


----------



## markkr

https://www.tubeworld.com
   
  this has been a good source for me...not sure if they have what you're looking for?


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Thx!  when I looked for the Tung Sol 6028... up came the WE and NE 408A.  So, I assume these are just as good?


----------



## markkr

I have the WE's and the TungSols. I cant tell much difference between the two, other than the TungSols make the surface of the amp REALLY hot and the WE's do not.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Good to know... Thx!  I'm going to order up a set of the WE 408E then.  Those and with the LT1364 that's already installed... and I should be ready for the K701/702...


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Ok, tubes ordered.  Now, my question is in regards to using the amp.  I was told to warm up the tubes for 1 minute with volume pot turned all the way down.  Then I can go ahead and listen to it.  Now, if I want to change headphones, do I need to turn off the amp completely and then wait 10 minutes before powering on and waiting another minute before using my other headphones?


----------



## Aynjell

Quote: 





waytoocrazy said:


> Ok, tubes ordered.  Now, my question is in regards to using the amp.  I was told to warm up the tubes for 1 minute with volume pot turned all the way down.  Then I can go ahead and listen to it.  Now, if I want to change headphones, do I need to turn off the amp completely and then wait 10 minutes before powering on and waiting another minute before using my other headphones?


 

 I typically don't give it so much time. The onlything I really pay much attention to is giving it a break here and there.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

How do you normally do the 'cool down' and 'warm up' procedures when you swapped headphones?


----------



## markkr

I dont let it cool down between headphones.
   
  I turn it on... wait 10-15 seconds for the tubes to warm up and begin listening. The only thing I pay attention to: making sure I only leave it running for 8hrs or less continuously as is recommended by David on the Little Dot site.


----------



## Aynjell

Quote: 





markkr said:


> I dont let it cool down between headphones.
> 
> I turn it on... wait 10-15 seconds for the tubes to warm up and begin listening. The only thing I pay attention to: making sure I only leave it running for 8hrs or less continuously as is recommended by David on the Little Dot site.


 

 Same here for me.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Excellent... I'll do the same then... I'll just drop the volume knob to nil before swapping headphones.


----------



## drewfus420

I just ordered some of these TELEFUNKEN 6AK5 CV4010 5654 TUBES, anyone out there have any experience with them?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250632195726&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
  I am running Mullard CV4010's in both my LD 1+ and MK II right now and wanted to try something new.


----------



## Aynjell

Quote: 





waytoocrazy said:


> Excellent... I'll do the same then... I'll just drop the volume knob to nil before swapping headphones.


 

 No, but make sure the amp is off if nothing is plugged in. There are only two things I'd do with this amp that I'd be sure to follow:
   
  Turn the amp off ever 8 hours or so to give it a break. Smokers, on your smoke breaks is a great time. 
  Secondly, do not leave the amp on when you switch cans.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Well, I was an idiot and burned out my first set of Western Electric 408A tubes.  I got too excited and popped them into the LD I+ before changing the jumpers.  I burned them in for 28hrs and then noticed that one channel was louder than the other.  Then I swapped them (it followed the 1 tube).  So... I turned everything off... did some research (RTFM.... and noticed I was supposed to move 2 jumpers).  I did that... now both channels work.. but I have to turn the volume knob ALL THE WAY UP to hear anything.  I currently have the stock 6J1 tubes in now (and they sound pretty good with the LT1364).  Is it worth it to re-order the WE 408A?  I would like to drive a K702 (looking at getting one in a few weeks).  ..and I read that the LD I+ with LT1364 and 408A tubes were the ticket.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Ok.  I still haven't purchased my OWN K702.  ...but I borrowed a friends.  I'm using them with a custom OCC Cable (I believe it's a DHC).  The cans sound good, but not as mind blowing as I thought.  I then listened to the same tracks with my OFC re-cables Grado SR-80i (with cups damped internally with felt).  The Grado sounds fantastic.  Much more exciting than the K702.  I have the LT1364 and Western Electric 408A.  Should I be looking at different tubes and OpAmp to make the K702 sound even more exciting than my Grados?  If this is what I can expect, I don't want to spend $250 for K702 and another $150 on a cable to have it sound close to my $100 SR-80i with about $30 in re-cable (it's DIY).  Any suggestions would be appreciated.


----------



## morfic

Have you tried a LME49720 in your amp? (Good opamp for any phone)
   
  Have you tried some black plate 6AK5W? (Should all have a low end better suited for K702)
   
  IF the K702 were known for their low end, i'd suggest the LME49720+EF91 combo that's rockin my HFI-780  (EF91 have amazing voices and detail, but on cans that have a weaker low end, you may not appreciate them)


----------



## WayTooCrazy

I didn't think the low end on the K702 was bad at all.  It actually surprised me from all the reports of them being really weak.  I wonder if anyone else has tried this combo.


----------



## Aynjell

I've basically fallen in love with my current setup. I want a bit closer mids, and a bit stronger bass.
   
  Currently using LT1364 op.amp. and M8083 small shields...
   
  Seems like mids are thin and bass is a bit weak, but I get that feeling of space and power that I want. I think I may be best off changing tubes. I'm going to roll through the rest of mine tonite, but I know I'm totally over the M8161. They're so undetailed, sqaushed together and unfeeling... just plain boring and will take a perfectly good pair of cans and make 'em sound like mud.
   
  This setup gives me the power, and the fidelity, now I just need a bit of fine tuning audio wise... maybe a bit more bass and some closer mids. Ideas? What can I change to get there?


----------



## Aynjell

Because of all the chatter, and due to availability on any major parts dealer sites, I just ordered a pair of OPA2107's off of ebay for 9.99. Two, for less than the price of 1. And since nothing else but maybe an LM4562 would have gone into my order, and even were I to order them still it'd be chaeper to order the opa2107's on ebay because they're just that much cheaper. Free shipping to boot.


----------



## cristox

hope they are not faked...


----------



## morfic

Digikey is the best source for me.
  And since i got the two OPA2107 "for free" with my I+, i know i would never buy them.
  LME49720 (aka LM4562) + shipping < 9.99 but in enjoyment the LME are > *  
  Just good we don't all have the same taste and not one combination will manage to make everyone happy.
  If you think the OPA2107 might be fakes, i can send you one of mine, while i do not know their birthplace, it could get you a reference, they are not horrible, just not what i like.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Well, My K702 are on their way.  I'm still unsure what I should use on the LD I+.  I know the W.E. 408A with LT1364 is not a great setup for it.  Though it works great with my Grados.  I see myself using the Grados more, so I just might pick up a Bravo V2 amp and roll in a different tube for the K702.


----------



## Aynjell

Quote: 





cristox said:


> hope they are not faked...


 

 I didn't even think of that last night. I'd obviously hope somebody isn't faking a burr brown OPA2107. That'd just be silly.


----------



## reiserFS

Does anyone know where I could source a pair of Sylvania 408s Gold from? Didn't have any luck on eBay so far.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Quote: 





reiserfs said:


> Does anyone know where I could source a pair of Sylvania 408s Gold from? Didn't have any luck on eBay so far.


 

 How do you like your K701 off of your LD I+?  Do you still have the stock OpAmp in there?  I'm thinking of trying a new OpAmp before rolling anymore tubes... to get better synergy with my K702.


----------



## morfic

You buy some cheap opamps for a couple pennies and sell them for $10? Huge profits.
  Exactly of like the "matched pair" on tubes price gouging.
  "Well i don't know, i just stick with a 'known good source'" ever see this mentioned anywhere?
  Because we "don't know" we buy $40 pairs, when we could get tubes for $4 the pair? If we don't know, then why do we blindly trust the $40 seller?
  Buy a matched pair, then buy a cheap pair. Listen to the "good pair". Then have someone switch the tubes without telling you if they really switched to the "unmatched pair" or left them on your matched pair.
  I bet if they told you they are the cheap pair, you would hear it, until they told you they tricked you and they actually left the matched pair 
   
  Tubes and opamps are a very profitable market, faking stuff (like claiming matching when you really did nothing) is big business.


----------



## reiserFS

Quote: 





waytoocrazy said:


> How do you like your K701 off of your LD I+?  Do you still have the stock OpAmp in there?  I'm thinking of trying a new OpAmp before rolling anymore tubes... to get better synergy with my K702.


 
  Still the stock opamp, but ordered LT1364 yesterday from a German shop, should be here in a while. Really like the K701 with the LD I+ WE408 tubes, I mainly listen to instrumental, orchestral, live recordings, j-pop and really like the amazing soundstage that the amp delivers. Warm, natural and yet very detailed. I feel like there could be some improvement done in the mid-range though, but then again I'm fairly new to this hobby. Hope I could provide some feedback.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Hmmm, my personal K702 should be here in a day or so for me to continue testing.  I borrowed a friend's for the weekend and I have the same setup (W.E. 408A w/LT1364 OpAmp).  I used the K702 with stock cable, a gaming cable that I build (OFC cable), and an OCC Copper Cable (believe it was DHC).  The stock was ok, but nothing special.  The Gaming Cable was nice and reduced some of the harshness and boosted mids and bass.  The OCC cable did the same as the Gaming cable, but it also increased the detail and bright highs were very evident.  I didn't like it all that much, but I did like the headphones more with the stock 6J1 tubes and the after market cables.  I'm going to get my music together and give them a thorough listen before the K702 arrive and that way I can listen to them and find my sweet spot.  Hopefully, it doesn't mess up the synergy the amp has with my Grados (LOVE THEM as they are right now).
  
  Quote: 





reiserfs said:


> Still the stock opamp, but ordered LT1364 yesterday from a German shop, should be here in a while. Really like the K701 with the LD I+ WE408 tubes, I mainly listen to instrumental, orchestral, live recordings, j-pop and really like the amazing soundstage that the amp delivers. Warm, natural and yet very detailed. I feel like there could be some improvement done in the mid-range though, but then again I'm fairly new to this hobby. Hope I could provide some feedback.


----------



## Aynjell

My "OPA2107" came in. Gonna give it a listen tonite. If my experience matches what I've read they'll get a good review. Can't wait to listen!


----------



## Aynjell

Got it in. The volume knob needs a lot more. The gain on this thing is really low. The sound stage is absolutely humongous! I intend to roll a few tubes through it tonite. Sticking with my tried and true M8083's. Will try the M8161's tonite for sure since I don't have to jumper at all. 
   
  And to think it was only 5$ for me. Goodbuy711 I believe is who I bought it from.
   
  Got some more listening to do, but really satisfied so far. 
   
  Nothing, and I mean nothing sticks out enough to bother me. If I buy an Little Dot DAC two of these WILL go into the DAC. They're so nuetral and under amping that they're bound to be perfect for the pre out section of a DAC. Sound stage is phenominal. Almost wish I had ordered 3 for the future.


----------



## reiserFS

My pair of NOS CV4010s were in the mail today, didn't hesitate any second and rolled them in. I just burned in my WE408s and really liked the combination with the LT1364 since it provides such a nice wide soundstage while not being harsh. Now for the Mullards, they sure are interesting. Comparing them 1:1, there's only a very little bit of soundstage detail lost, though the overall sound is much warmer, smoother, intimated and they do provide some nice bass. I never thought that my K701 were on the bass less side, but the extra bit of bass sure is welcome. I can't wait what they sound like once burned in.
   
  I should get some CV4014s in the mail tomorrow as well, though they'll have to wait.
   
  @Aynjell 
  Interesting read, might order one as well if it's just five bucks.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Well, to be honest.  When I received my own K702, I tried the exact same combo as the ones that I borrowed... and I liked mine better for some reason (probably because they're mine).  I then built a new Mogami W2893 based gaming cable, and it worked much better than I thought.  I think OFC with the LD I+ (LT1364 and WE408E) are a pretty good combo.  UPOCC based cable is too detailed and the highs are too much for my taste.
  
  Quote: 





reiserfs said:


> My pair of NOS CV4010s were in the mail today, didn't hesitate any second and rolled them in. I just burned in my WE408s and really liked the combination with the LT1364 since it provides such a nice wide soundstage while not being harsh. Now for the Mullards, they sure are interesting. Comparing them 1:1, there's only a very little bit of soundstage detail lost, though the overall sound is much warmer, smoother, intimated and they do provide some nice bass. I never thought that my K701 were on the bass less side, but the extra bit of bass sure is welcome. I can't wait what they sound like once burned in.
> 
> I should get some CV4014s in the mail tomorrow as well, though they'll have to wait.
> 
> ...


----------



## Aynjell

Quote: 





reiserfs said:


> My pair of NOS CV4010s were in the mail today, didn't hesitate any second and rolled them in. I just burned in my WE408s and really liked the combination with the LT1364 since it provides such a nice wide soundstage while not being harsh. Now for the Mullards, they sure are interesting. Comparing them 1:1, there's only a very little bit of soundstage detail lost, though the overall sound is much warmer, smoother, intimated and they do provide some nice bass. I never thought that my K701 were on the bass less side, but the extra bit of bass sure is welcome. I can't wait what they sound like once burned in.
> 
> I should get some CV4014s in the mail tomorrow as well, though they'll have to wait.
> 
> ...


 

 I got mine at 10$ for two.


----------



## Aynjell

My initial (but less initial than earlier) impressions of the OPA 2107:
   
  1. This op amp doesn't amplify as much, or doesn't seem to. I have to add about 25% of what I already have to the volume to get to listening levels. This is awesome for me, because coming out of my X-Fi, the signal is already seemingly pre-amped, so the LD amp doesn't get much play. This op amp would be brilliant in a DAC if not for point number 2.
   
  2. It loses track of details pretty quickly. In fact, it's veiled and a bit muddy. I've tried it with every tube in my possession aside from my chinese 6JI's, with no luck in increasing the resolution. Some things, that are already incredibly detailed and could use some toning down are turned into beautiful pieces of music to my ears. Last night I listened to A Perfect Circle's Noose, Lullabye, and Counting Body Like Sheep To The Rhythm of a War Drum. The first track seemed to be hurt by this op amp, losing some of it's already scant detail, but the second and third were very simple sonuds, and the sounds benefitted from a bit of smoothing.
   
  3. You can really crank it up. I think I listened to the third track a bit too loudly last night. The fact that I can turn it up so high and still enjoy it screams balanced.
   
  4. Like the LT1364, the sound stage is huge. When I listen, I get all the best parts of listening to speakers, with all the best of headphones. With combinations like this, I can't fathom listening to speakers.
   
  I think this is a great op amp that needs a good tube combo, but up til now every op amp has sounded best next to the M8083's I got.
   
  All my impressions were made with the Shure SRH840 (A brilliant closed can, and one anybody should have if they need a closed can). Good sound stage, great balance, etc. At 200$ a pop, they're hard to justify, but they really are amazing.
   
  I will try to listen some more tonite, but I'm going to a MTG draft, so we'll see how late that runs. 
   
  ((Pair this op amp with some already detailed tubes that provide good sound stage and more bass if you need that, and with detailed cans, less detailed cans will lose too much. I imagine my Grado SR325i's would sound absolutely brilliant with this setup, though!))


----------



## reiserFS

Quote: 





aynjell said:


> My initial (but less initial than earlier) impressions of the OPA 2107:
> 
> 1. This op amp doesn't amplify as much, or doesn't seem to. I have to add about 25% of what I already have to the volume to get to listening levels. This is awesome for me, because coming out of my X-Fi, the signal is already seemingly pre-amped, so the LD amp doesn't get much play. This op amp would be brilliant in a DAC if not for point number 2.
> 
> ...


 


 You don't happen to have Sylvania GB408s, do you? It certainly would be interesting to see how well they manage in your combination. To be honest, I don't really like how fast the OPA 2107 loses track of details, so I guess I'll skip that one.


----------



## Aynjell

It's not a good combo. I don't like the sylvania's anymore. No depth or range.


----------



## Aynjell

So far, the OPA2107 is the best op amp and with the M8083 tubes I have, is the best combination. no fatigue, and wonderful sound. the lack of detail is actually just a wider sound stage, I misjudged it at first. I reccomend it to all.


----------



## PurpleMango

Hello,
   
  Just became a Little I+ owner, i have a LT1364 opamp ordered. I would like to ask in combination of my K701 i feel the power is lacking (the volum pot is at the end) and i feel still lack the punch. Feel like my 701 is kinda death. Is this cause of the standaart opamp?
   
  Also any one can give me hints on Tube for the LT1364+701 Combo? Mostly listen to old classic.
   
  Any help is much apreciated.
   
  Best Regards


----------



## Trapper32

Sounds like your source isn't feeding the LD properly.   Try turning it up if you can.  You shouldn't be able to use more than 40 % of your volume pot without serious hearing damage.  
   
  I liked the Tung-sol 6ak5w with my k702 but liked the 2107 opamp better than the 1364.  Any of the Mullard family (8100, 8161, 8083) would probably mesh well too.


----------



## PurpleMango

@Trapper32
   
  Hmm it aint like i like the LT 1364 over any other opamp. I have read this post from start till end it and it seems this one got most good comment beside  the offset issue some people have measured. For me this first time really rolling opamp. PS i just need to plug it in right like people mention, for the LT1364 i dont need adapter right?
   
http://cgi.ebay.nl/M8083-CV4014-EF91-MULLARD-NOS-MATCHED-PAIR-/310087990802?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Consumer_VintageAudio_RL&hash=item4832af3e12
   
  Something like this one? (Mullard E91)
   
  I try to find some cheap tube to roll. but before that i will just try to see how the new opamp will do.
   
  Source is my iphone 3gs, did not tried it on my cd player. (might give that  try tonight)

 Will let you know if that make a difference.
   
  Best Regards.
  Mango


----------



## Trapper32

Yes like those tubes.   When you put the opamp in just make sure you orient it the same way.  There's an ident or half moon that has to be inserted in the right direction.  That opamp might be a little too bright and detailed for a k701 but your ears will be the best judge.  Good Luck.


----------



## PurpleMango

Well, Bought the tube i just linked you. Hope they come in one piece and without custom problem.
   
  Hmm So the combo should be LT1364+Mullard E91
   
  Hope this will sound good with the K701
   
  I will reply back later in few week or so when i got it all and tested it.
   
  Thanks for the help and i will keep in mind when i roll the opamp.
   
  Best Regards,
  Mango


----------



## WayTooCrazy

What are your thoughts of the setup?  I'm very much enjoying my LT1364 + W.E. 408A with my K702. 
  Quote: 





purplemango said:


> Well, Bought the tube i just linked you. Hope they come in one piece and without custom problem.
> 
> Hmm So the combo should be LT1364+Mullard E91
> 
> ...


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Dangit!  Wouldn't you know it... I say how I like my current setup... and I put on a little Corinne Bailey Rae... and her first song (Like a Star) on her CD... I hear a little crackling and popping sounds with some of the bass.  So, I make sure my connections are tight (they are)... and listen some more.  Still there.  I pop in the CD and listen to that instead of the ALAC files that I was listening to.  Still there.  So, I plug directly into my DAC.... it's gone.  I guess I need to replace my tubes.  I'm now trying to decide if I want to re-purchase the W.E. 408A or go for something else.


----------



## drewfus420

Anyone else running Telefunken tubes in their LD1? I am loving mine since they settled in.


----------



## PurpleMango

@Waytoocrazy
   
  cant tell the LT1364 was defected, when i got it so no way to test it. if anyone can tell me where i can get it or any opamps mention here for a decent price (if possible near europe as i am Dutch) would be much appreciated.
   
  And the tube i got still need to put it in as work is preventing me to tinker with my Little Dot I+
   
  Also aint those little pop normal? As they are " tube "  like littel crack and pop you hear on LP?

 Anyway good luck fixing the pop/crack sound.


----------



## Groomsy

I got the email from David today that my Little Dot I+ shipped out. I'm so excited for my first tube experience! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Anyway, I may wait a while to try out new tubes, and I don't even know if I'll bother with opamps since I'm clumsy when it comes to dealing with small electronics parts.
   
  But for future reference: I'll be listening to pretty much all genres (particular emphasis on punk/metal, electronic, and some jazz) with my LD I+; it will be fed by a uDAC running WMA lossless files from ASIO4ALL on Fubar2000. Which tubes would be best suited for my genres? It seems like the 408A are the creme of the crop, but I'm not sure I want to take that big of a leap right off the bat. Any ideas for "starter" tubes for this amp?


----------



## morfic

Quote: 





groomsy said:


> I got the email from David today that my Little Dot I+ shipped out. I'm so excited for my first tube experience!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Maybe the gold brand 408 (which i didn't invest in, but do have a reputation of being good, not sure if it's the ipod syndrome "it's good because it's expensive"), the vanilla 408 are not as sweet as my EF91, tastes vary, which is why most anyone tries more than one if they try any at all. keep an eye on ebay, cheap deals can be had for most of the fun ones, i also mean to say to not bother with $40+ "matched sets" BS makes trying tubes an affordable past time.


----------



## cruizin caleb

I was considering buying these 408A Phillips tubes for my Little Dot I+ - the seller claims its the 'same as Sylvania'
   
  Can anyone confirm or deny this?
   
  What is the difference in sound generally between the EF92 and the 408A tubes? EF95? What are the generally the prefered brands?
   
  Also - is anyone familiar with the 408A ERICSSON TUBES
   
  i posted a new thread about this, but then i realized this might be the better thread post in.


----------



## Aynjell

Quote: 





cruizin caleb said:


> I was considering buying these 408A Phillips tubes for my Little Dot I+ - the seller claims its the 'same as Sylvania'
> 
> Can anyone confirm or deny this?
> 
> ...


 

 My EF92's seem to sonud compressed and bass heavy.
  My EF91's are expansive and very nuetral.
  My 408's are about like the EF92's with less bass.


----------



## cruizin caleb

i think i like bass of the EF92. i didn't notice them 'sounding compressed' - but then again I haven't heard any other tubes (let alone tube amps). i don't think i would like to lose bass. but i'm not sure what you mean by 'compressed.' i like the idea of something 'more' than what i have (EF92) but I also don't want to lose much bass. what tube would you suggest?
  
  Quote: 





aynjell said:


> My EF92's seem to sonud compressed and bass heavy.
> My EF91's are expansive and very nuetral.
> My 408's are about like the EF92's with less bass.


----------



## Aynjell

The most enjoyable setup I've found personally is the OPA2107 with Mullard M8083. I've tried all the other FOTM setups for the amp, and this setup is the most enjoyable.


----------



## cruizin caleb

if i want to put more bass into my RS-1s with my Little Dot I+, which tubes would you recommend?


----------



## Aynjell

For easy to find tubes, Mullard M8161. If you can find them at a reasonable price, try hunting down the Sylvania GB408A.


----------



## cruizin caleb

I've heard (i think maybe from you?) that the 408A had less bass. I think I want a bit more bass. I have the stock EF92 that I upgraded to when i purchased me LD I+.
  I just bought this a few hours ago:  M8083/CV4014/EF91 MULLARD NOS MATCHED PAIR
   
   
  would you have recommended/recomend this: CV4015 EF92 M8161 Mullard NOS Tube Matched Pairs


----------



## Aynjell

8083 are not bassy. They will actually give a great deal of airiness and neutrality. For bass, the M8161 is the way to go.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

Quote: 





aynjell said:


> For easy to find tubes, Mullard M8161. If you can find them at a reasonable price, try hunting down the Sylvania GB408A.


 

 I wish I could find some Sylvania GB408A.  I'm using the Western Electric ones now... (love the sound)... just wondering what else is out there.  I basically use the LD I+ with my K702 (and that's about it).


----------



## Aynjell

How is the K702 with the I+? I'm seriously considering K702 in the future.


----------



## WayTooCrazy

I like them alot!  I honestly don't get the whole "bass light" thing that I've read in tons of reviews or 'personal takes' on them.  I think them thump pretty well, the bass is accurate and sounds very good.  I thought they were ok with stock cable, but with a simple Mogami cable swap (2893 or 2534) the bass improved and they seemed a tiny bit more open.  I just built a cable out of cheap car speaker wire... and they sound pretty much on par with my Mogami cables.
  
  Quote: 





aynjell said:


> How is the K702 with the I+? I'm seriously considering K702 in the future.


----------



## honmashinsei

I'm thinking of buying the NuForce uDAC-2 and this little amp. I have Alessandro MS-1i's and planning to buy Denon D2000 some time later.
   
  This is supposed to be a pretty decent budget setup, right? What tubes would be best for this setup? I listen mainly to indie/alternative rock, and electronic music (minimal/techno, dubstep, IDM).
   
  Thanks!


----------



## john57

[size=10pt]I have a tried a few others make for the 408A tubes and I have come back to the Western Electric 408A for best clarity. [/size]


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote: 





okthxbye said:


> I'm thinking of buying the NuForce uDAC-2 and this little amp. I have Alessandro MS-1i's and planning to buy Denon D2000 some time later.
> 
> This is supposed to be a pretty decent budget setup, right? What tubes would be best for this setup? I listen mainly to indie/alternative rock, and electronic music (minimal/techno, dubstep, IDM).
> 
> Thanks!


 

 That will be a nice setup indeed.  In reference to the tubes, well there are many to choose from.  I tend to sway in the EF91 & EF92 direction.  I like what they offer in overall presentation.  At the moment I'm rocking some Tung Sol 408As and the sound is delicious.  lol...Again, many to choose from and three families.  Your choice...
   
  Enjoy!


----------



## lessblue

Ok I bit and bought a Little Dot I+.
  Getting to be an expensive habit this audio stuff.
   
  Now to research the tubes (and tube dampeners, and opamps, and..............)


----------



## lessblue

Alright, the SYLVANIA GOLD BRAND GB408A tubes are way too hard to find and probably expensive. 
   
What's the next best thing to them that is more readily available?


----------



## Aynjell

My personal favourite is the Mullard M8083. Widest sound stage, and seems to be pretty nuetral, allowing you to modify the sound more with op amps which are readily accessible.


----------



## lessblue

Quote: 





aynjell said:


> My personal favourite is the Mullard M8083. Widest sound stage, and seems to be pretty nuetral, allowing you to modify the sound more with op amps which are readily accessible.


 

 Thank you, I just now ordered the M8083 from eBay! May ask which opamps you recommend and where to buy online in the US?


----------



## REDH0RN

What is a good OP amp / tube combo for the AKG 601's?


----------



## Aynjell

My favourite op amp so far especially with the 8083 is the OPA2107. I found a deal for 2 for 10$ on ebay, which is amazing considering they're normally 15$.


----------



## REDH0RN

Are these the same?
   
   
[size=large] *OPA2107AU dual Low Noise Difet Pro audio SOIC8*[/size]   
   
[size=large] *OPA2107AP dual Low Noise Difet Precision DIP-8*[/size]   
  Is one better than the other?
   
   
  Also where is a good US source for Mullard M808?


----------



## john57

[size=large] *OPA2107AU dual Low Noise Difet Pro audio SOIC8 is suface mounted and you do not want that.*[/size]   
*OPA2107AP dual Low Noise Difet Precision DIP-8 is socket version that has eight legs that is the correct version to use. *


----------



## lessblue

Thanks REDHORN, picked up the OPA2107 on eBay.


----------



## lessblue

Has anyone used the Little Dot I+ along with an EMU USB 0404?


----------



## john57

[size=medium]It can work you will need to convert the balanced ¼ outputs to unbalanced RCA jacks to connect to the Little Dot 1+. I have successfully used the Behringer ULTRAMATCH PRO SRC2496 A/D-D/A Converter to the Little Dot 1+ using a XLR balanced to RCA cables. [/size]


----------



## lessblue

Quote: 





john57 said:


> [size=medium]It can work you will need to convert the balanced ¼ outputs to unbalanced RCA jacks to connect to the Little Dot 1+. I have successfully used the Behringer ULTRAMATCH PRO SRC2496 A/D-D/A Converter to the Little Dot 1+ using a XLR balanced to RCA cables. [/size]


 

 Hmmm this is more complicated than I thought.
   
  A cable *like this?*
   
  Is it not recommended to use both the 0404 USB and the Little Dot I+?


----------



## john57

[size=10pt]The easiest not really the cheapest is to go to your local Radio Shack store for these 1/4 to RCA.[/size]
   
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062455
   
  You will then use a standard RCA cable to connect between the two units.  The XLR to RCA cable cost more and I got mine from Ebay for my [size=small]Behringer[/size] unit which is connected to my computer system and it was a very good match for my needs and the [size=small]Behringer[/size] also does ADC for recording.


----------



## lessblue

Quote: 





john57 said:


> [size=10pt]The easiest not really the cheapest is to go to your local Radio Shack store for these 1/4 to RCA.[/size]
> 
> http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062455
> 
> You will then use a standard RCA cable to connect between the two units.  The XLR to RCA cable cost more and I got mine from Ebay for my [size=small]Behringer[/size] unit which is connected to my computer system and it was a very good match for my needs and the [size=small]Behringer[/size] also does ADC for recording.


 

 Awesome, thank you very much for your help.


----------



## Jason20070701

Hi friends, if I only have basic LD1+ with 6J1,  how much difference to EF92 or WE208A when I use DT231 to enjoy classical music.


----------



## john57

[size=small]*[size=medium]With any of the following tubes can be used in the Little dot 1+ without moving the jumpers.[/size]*[/size]
  [size=small]*[size=medium]6JI, WE403A/B, GE5654, M8100, CV4010, EF95[/size]*[/size]
  [size=small]*[size=medium]I personally use the WE408 for my needs with the 2017 Op-amp as well. I listen to all classical music including all the great masses with my Little Dot 1+. Just be carefull and make sure you move the jumper back if you no longer going the use the WE408 tube.  The WE408 tube needs much higher heater voltage. [/size]*[/size]
  [size=small]* *[/size]


----------



## Aynjell

Quote: 





john57 said:


> [size=small]*[size=medium]With any of the following tubes can be used in the Little dot 1+ without moving the jumpers.[/size]*[/size]
> [size=small]*[size=medium]6JI, WE403A/B, GE5654, M8100, CV4010, EF95[/size]*[/size]
> [size=small]*[size=medium]I personally use the WE408 for my needs with the 2017 Op-amp as well. I listen to all classical music including all the great masses with my Little Dot 1+. Just be carefull and make sure you move the jumper back if you no longer going the use the WE408 tube.  The WE408 tube needs much higher heater voltage. [/size]*[/size]
> [size=small]* *[/size]


 

 I want to clarify this may not be the case depending on what tubes you buy. Please check your documentation for any tubes you install to verify you have it setup correctly. One over confident mistake will break your amp, so be safe, not sorry.


----------



## cruizin caleb

i have the Mullard EF91. what is known to be the 'bassiest' tube and opamp. I know from reading that it is *not* the 408A.


----------



## lessblue

Any thoughts on Mullard M8083 vs WE408as?


----------



## HeatFan12

Well, I personally like the EF91 family.  ATM I don't have any WE408a, however my favorite 408a is the Tung-Sol.
   
  Many tubes to choose from with this amp.
   
  One of my favorite EF91-


----------



## lescanard

Those are also my most favorite tubes for my LDI+ HeatFan...I have about 20 different pairs of tubes and this set rarely if ever leaves the amp!


----------



## lessblue

I've installed my newly arrived Mullard EF91 M8083 NOS matched pair and it sounds pretty good, installed an OPA2107 too.
   
  Question, I have my lossless audio being sent from Songbird to my EMU USB 0404 which then connects to my LDI+.
   
  Now all three have volume controls, the EMU has a Main Output.
   
  Is it best to set the Songbird Volume at Max, the EMU's volume in the middle and just fiddle with the LDI+'s volume?


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote: 





lescanard said:


> Those are also my most favorite tubes for my LDI+ HeatFan...I have about 20 different pairs of tubes and this set rarely if ever leaves the amp!


 

 Love them tubes....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






  
  Quote: 





lessblue said:


> I've installed my newly arrived Mullard EF91 M8083 NOS matched pair and it sounds pretty good, installed an OPA2107 too.
> 
> Question, I have my lossless audio being sent from Songbird to my EMU USB 0404 which then connects to my LDI+.
> 
> ...


 


 Max everything and control with I+.  I have an E-MU0404USB (no songbird, sorry) and I max its main and control with amp.


----------



## reiserFS

Quote: 





heatfan12 said:


> Well, I personally like the EF91 family.  ATM I don't have any WE408a, however my favorite 408a is the Tung-Sol.
> 
> Many tubes to choose from with this amp.
> 
> One of my favorite EF91-


 




  Quote: 





lescanard said:


> Those are also my most favorite tubes for my LDI+ HeatFan...I have about 20 different pairs of tubes and this set rarely if ever leaves the amp!


 

 Those also were my favorite tubes when I still had the LD I+, great synergy with the K701s.


----------



## lessblue

Quote: 





heatfan12 said:


> Max everything and control with I+.  I have an E-MU0404USB (no songbird, sorry) and I max its main and control with amp.


 

 Safe to max the EMU0404USB?
   
  Do you max the audio player as well (songbird, foobar...)?


----------



## cruizin caleb

thats what I'm currently using 
   
  Quote: 





heatfan12 said:


> Well, I personally like the EF91 family.  ATM I don't have any WE408a, however my favorite 408a is the Tung-Sol.
> 
> Many tubes to choose from with this amp.
> 
> One of my favorite EF91-


----------



## reiserFS

Quote: 





lessblue said:


> Safe to max the EMU0404USB?
> 
> Do you max the audio player as well (songbird, foobar...)?


 
  Why shouldn't it be safe to max it? That's what you generally do, max everything including Fb2k and the DAC and control the volume with the potentiometer on the amp.


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote: 





lessblue said:


> Safe to max the EMU0404USB?
> 
> Do you max the audio player as well (songbird, foobar...)?


 

 Absolutely, just turn down the volume of your amp and take it from there...My E-MU and Foobar are max (0.00dB) and my amp controls.  Once set, you never have to mess with the player or the E-MU.  You always want full attenuation at the beginning and middle and control it with the last output (amp).


  
  Quote: 





cruizin caleb said:


> thats what I'm currently using


 

 I remember when you purchased your amp...Good times....


----------



## john57

[size=10pt]With any software media player like the soundbird which uses a digital volume control you wanted it to be maximum so that it will not reduce any digital bits. The  EMU's volume control at middle sounds good since balanced outputs tend to run a bit higher voltage at the outputs. Sounds like you have a plan. [/size]
  [size=10pt] [/size]


----------



## Suigeneris

Where are you guys getting these Mullard EF91s?
 Debating whether I should get the EF92 or the EF91s for LD I+


----------



## Suigeneris

And also, do I need to adjust anything in the amp when using the mullard EF91s?
 Sorry, new to tube rolling!


----------



## honmashinsei

How is the standard opamp of this amp? I'm thinking of getting the uDAC-2 and I'm in doubt between this amp, and the Schiit Asgard. I listen to (indie)rock en electronic music (techno, IDM, dubstep) mostly. I don't want to start soldering in my amp, and would only like to replace the tubes with some good ones. What are some good tubes (the mullards mentioned above?), and is it worth buying this amp if I'm not going to change the opamp?


----------



## Aynjell

Quote: 





okthxbye said:


> How is the standard opamp of this amp? I'm thinking of getting the uDAC-2 and I'm in doubt between this amp, and the Schiit Asgard. I listen to (indie)rock en electronic music (techno, IDM, dubstep) mostly. I don't want to start soldering in my amp, and would only like to replace the tubes with some good ones. What are some good tubes (the mullards mentioned above?), and is it worth buying this amp if I'm not going to change the opamp?


 

 The op amp is socketed. The stock unit is hardly ideal. Between this and other available options, if you're asking... then the Little Dot I+. it teaches many valuable lessons and in time, and with enough investment will become the perfect amp for you... in my case that was 350$ later (including the amp)... but to have that _PERFECT_ sound for such a low price is a bargain. And to be truthful I have a few parts that could be sold to recover much of that cost, like the much coveted Sylvania Gold Brand 408A... which very well may go up for sale soon.


----------



## lescanard

Quote: 





suigeneris said:


> Where are you guys getting these Mullard EF91s?
> Debating whether I should get the EF92 or the EF91s for LD I+


 
  I got a bunch from eBay - 5 from a guy in England - and 4 more from someone else. They were pretty cheap (i.e. $5 ea) so I loaded up when I found them. You have to adjust the jumpers internally to make sure you can run the EF91/EF92 family. You can check the manual for the proper settings to make sure you are good to go. I found the EF91s more to my liking - seemed to have a more pronounced and slightly wider soundstage, warm (but not overly) and a tight/deep bass (but not muddy - even with my Denons).


----------



## Suigeneris

$5 a tube?! That is... awesome...
 so far I've only been able to find what another headfier posted for the mullards

 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=310087990802&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&afsrc=1

 Should I keep looking or is this as good as it gets? I already have the EF92, would you recommend getting these 91s
  to compliment the tubes I already have or should Iook into another family?


lescanard said:


> I got a bunch from eBay - 5 from a guy in England - and 4 more from someone else. They were pretty cheap (i.e. $5 ea) so I loaded up when I found them. You have to adjust the jumpers internally to make sure you can run the EF91/EF92 family. You can check the manual for the proper settings to make sure you are good to go. I found the EF91s more to my liking - seemed to have a more pronounced and slightly wider soundstage, warm (but not overly) and a tight/deep bass (but not muddy - even with my Denons).


----------



## Suigeneris

BTW I just ordered the LD I+ with EF92s
  I've heard the stock ones are not that great and the WE408a seemed a bit
  overpriced.


----------



## reiserFS

Quote: 





john57 said:


> [size=10pt]With any software media player like the soundbird which uses a digital volume control you wanted it to be maximum so that it will not reduce any digital bits. The  EMU's volume control at middle sounds good since balanced outputs tend to run a bit higher voltage at the outputs. Sounds like you have a plan. [/size]
> [size=10pt] [/size]


 
  Even though balanced outputs put out much more power than regular RCA, you shouldn't worry about that since you're controlling the volume on the amp after all.


----------



## honmashinsei

Quote: 





aynjell said:


> The op amp is socketed. The stock unit is hardly ideal. Between this and other available options, if you're asking... then the Little Dot I+. it teaches many valuable lessons and in time, and with enough investment will become the perfect amp for you... in my case that was 350$ later (including the amp)... but to have that _PERFECT_ sound for such a low price is a bargain. And to be truthful I have a few parts that could be sold to recover much of that cost, like the much coveted Sylvania Gold Brand 408A... which very well may go up for sale soon.


 

 So this means that I can replace the opamp without soldering? Just pull out the old one from it's socket and put in a new one? That'd be awesome! What would be a good opamp for my musical tastes?


----------



## reiserFS

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *okthxbye* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> So this means that I can replace the opamp without soldering? Just pull out the old one from it's socket and put in a new one? That'd be awesome!


 
  Indeed, just swap them.


----------



## lescanard

Quote: 





suigeneris said:


> $5 a tube?! That is... awesome...
> so far I've only been able to find what another headfier posted for the mullards
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=310087990802&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&afsrc=1
> ...


 
   
  Looks like a pretty good deal to me. Grab a couple of pairs maybe to save on some shipping. I've paid a lot more for tubes - but your threshold is up to you. There are truly fantastic tubes IMO.


----------



## lessblue

Can the LD I+ be used with 150ohm cans?


----------



## REDH0RN

*Quote:*
   
*Can the LD I+ be used with 150ohm cans?*
   
  I think it's safe to say _yes. _David at Little Dot recommends the I+ for home use with my 120 Ohm AKG 601's.


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote: 





lessblue said:


> Can the LD I+ be used with 150ohm cans?


 


 Well, somewhere in this thread (or I+ original thread) I remember reading a head-fier that had an AKG K601 and the sound was not ideal.  The AKG K501, 601 and 701 are a bit picky to drive.  I have gone up to 75ohm and no probs whatsoever.  However, after that I have 250 & 300ohm and they are not ideal.  Low impedance is where this amp shines.


----------



## Suigeneris

I'm considering buying the 2107 OPamp from here
  http://www.newark.com/texas-instruments/opa2107ap/operational-amplifier-op-amp-ic/dp/01M8387
   
  My LD I+ is on its way with EF92 tubes and I'm planning to use them mainly for my Grado HF2
  and sometimes the ATH AD700 and ATH M50.
   
  Does the 2107 really outdo the stock amp? If it does, does it work well with my HF2 and EF92 tubes?


----------



## Aynjell

Quote: 





suigeneris said:


> I'm considering buying the 2107 OPamp from here
> http://www.newark.com/texas-instruments/opa2107ap/operational-amplifier-op-amp-ic/dp/01M8387
> 
> My LD I+ is on its way with EF92 tubes and I'm planning to use them mainly for my Grado HF2
> ...


 
   
  Grados change very little with my setup, if that means anything.


----------



## Suigeneris

Really?
 Alrighty, I'm thinking I'll stick with my stock amp for now

 How  about the other headphones I've mentioned or
  other headphones that you've tested with this amp?


----------



## HeatFan12

I have two of these amps.  One fitted with the stock op-amp (MC33078P) and EF91, EF92 family of tubes and the other is fitted with an LT1364 op-amp and the 408A family.  The stock op-amp is fine.  If you want to experiment with tubes first, that would be my advice.  There is no sense is rolling op-amps and tubes at the same time because you will never know where the difference came from.  I do not know about the headphones you listed in reference to this amp.  But I have tried the I+ with Grados (SR-60, SR225, RS2, RS1i), Denon AH-D5000, Ultrasone from the HFI-580 to the Ed.9.
   
  Low impedance cans rock with this amp.


----------



## Suigeneris

Awesome, thanks Heatfan
 May be getting D7000 sometime to use with this amp
  
  Quote: 





heatfan12 said:


> I have two of these amps.  One fitted with the stock op-amp (MC33078P) and EF91, EF92 family of tubes and the other is fitted with an LT1364 op-amp and the 408A family.  The stock op-amp is fine.  If you want to experiment with tubes first, that would be my advice.  There is no sense is rolling op-amps and tubes at the same time because you will never know where the difference came from.  I do not know about the headphones you listed in reference to this amp.  But I have tried the I+ with Grados (SR-60, SR225, RS2, RS1i), Denon AH-D5000, Ultrasone from the HFI-580 to the Ed.9.
> 
> Low impedance cans rock with this amp.


----------



## jc22c

It can rolling tube?
  great, it is fun for it.


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote: 





suigeneris said:


> Awesome, thanks Heatfan
> May be getting D7000 sometime to use with this amp


 

 Enjoy!!!


----------



## lessblue

Scored some Sylvania Gold Brand 408A's and installed them yesterday.
   
  I am truly enjoying these tubes with the LDI+!
   
  Little Dot I+ (Sylvania 408A, OPA2107) -> SR225i


----------



## honmashinsei

Nice, those are some pretty expensive and hard to find tubes. Where did you get them, and could you or someone else tell me why these are worth the trouble of getting?


----------



## Aynjell

Quote: 





okthxbye said:


> Nice, those are some pretty expensive and hard to find tubes. Where did you get them, and could you or someone else tell me why these are worth the trouble of getting?


 

 It's all subjective. The commonly used combination of GB408A with LT1364 does sound okay, but it's sort of a one hit wonder. It adds sibilance so with some cans it can still be tolerable, BUT, they're rare, sought after and praised (I think wrongfully so). However, if you want a pair let me know. I'll sell them according to their value, I won't be low balled but if you want 'em I'm sure we can make a deal. If you want the 1364 also I could probably toss that in if you're nice.


----------



## lessblue

Quote: 





okthxbye said:


> Nice, those are some pretty expensive and hard to find tubes. Where did you get them, and could you or someone else tell me why these are worth the trouble of getting?


 

 I lucked out on eBay for NOS for a very good price!
   
  FWIW, before the Sylvania 408A, I replaced the stock tubes with Mullard M8083 from the same seller someone mentioned a few posts earlier.
   
  I enjoyed the M8083s but I prefer the Sylvania 408As. Still burning them in.
   
  I'm going to try and stay away from head-fi for awhile and enjoy this setup. Have to stave off upgradeitis (for the sake of music enjoyment and my wallet) for as long as I can hold out


----------



## honmashinsei

Quote: 





aynjell said:


> It's all subjective. The commonly used combination of GB408A with LT1364 does sound okay, but it's sort of a one hit wonder. It adds sibilance so with some cans it can still be tolerable, BUT, they're rare, sought after and praised (I think wrongfully so). However, if you want a pair let me know. I'll sell them according to their value, I won't be low balled but if you want 'em I'm sure we can make a deal. If you want the 1364 also I could probably toss that in if you're nice.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Thanks for your offer, I'll keep that in mind. I still haven't even purchased a Little Dot I+, to begin with 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I have Alessandro MS-1i's, and planning to get some D2000's later on. Is the GB408A + LT1364 combination a good setup for these cans?


----------



## Aynjell

Quote: 





okthxbye said:


> Thanks for your offer, I'll keep that in mind. I still haven't even purchased a Little Dot I+, to begin with
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 A lot of people seem to think so. I bought them because of the hype. I didn't like them, but they're still valuable and worth getting rid of if they have no use in my hands.


----------



## Faulkick

Hey people, complete noob to pretty well everything here, so sorry if I leave out valuable information, however I have had the Little Dot I+ for a couple of years now, and well I was recently adjusting one of my monitors, when it fell out of place of it's stand, and crushed one of the stock tubes on my LDI+.
   
  So I am looking to replace the pair of them as from what I read on here, it is important to have an exact match of two tubes.
   
  As much as I would love to splash out a lot of cash on them, I do not wish to spend too much on them, so was looking at a set of these;
   
  http://cgi.ebay.com.au/M8083-CV4014-EF91-MULLARD-NOS-MATCHED-PAIR-/310087990802?pt=UK_Consumer_VintageAudio_RL&hash=item4832af3e12
   
  One question which I have is, would this be a straight swap? Is there anything that I would need to change except for the tubes themselves? Also, are these a good set to go for? I looked up a few numbers on these forums, and did a bit of scouting through eBay, and these seemed to fit the bill, however I do not have any experience with modifying any electronics, so I would prefer to buy a pair of tubes which I could do a straight swap for.
   
  I use Denon AH-D2000's if that changes anything?


----------



## Aynjell

Quote: 





faulkick said:


> Hey people, complete noob to pretty well everything here, so sorry if I leave out valuable information, however I have had the Little Dot I+ for a couple of years now, and well I was recently adjusting one of my monitors, when it fell out of place of it's stand, and crushed one of the stock tubes on my LDI+.
> 
> So I am looking to replace the pair of them as from what I read on here, it is important to have an exact match of two tubes.
> 
> ...


 
  You must change jumpers. I posted a link to the manual, please read it, in short ef92 jumpers capped, and the 6ji/408a jumper set to 6ji side, but read your manual. The M8083 were so good for me that I actually burnt them up. I've yet to buy another pair but will very shortly.
   
  My guesstimate is they lasted 1200 to 1400 hours.


----------



## Thran

Also that ebay seller is great. I have bought around 20 tubes from them and they have all came in perfect working order.


----------



## lessblue

Quote: 





thran said:


> Also that ebay seller is great. I have bought around 20 tubes from them and they have all came in perfect working order.


 


  Let me add, that eBay seller is exceptional. I bought my M8083s from *yitry *(langrex) on eBay.
   
  I have Sylvania GB408As and the Mullard M8083s and they both sound great. The former are very difficult to find but the M8083s sound great as well.


----------



## Aynjell

Quote: 





lessblue said:


> Let me add, that eBay seller is exceptional. I bought my M8083s from *yitry *(langrex) on eBay.
> 
> I have Sylvania GB408As and the Mullard M8083s and they both sound great. The former are very difficult to find but the M8083s sound great as well.


 
   
  What opa are you using?
   
  Also: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/515284/sylvania-gold-brand-408a#post_6963828
   
  I am selling my 408A's, 40$ + shipping.


----------



## jr41

I just got a matched pair of CV4010 from Langrex (you don't need to change jumpers when switching from the stock tube to the CV4010). I'll second comments that Langrex is an excellent seller - very fast shipment and excellent packaging. I brought the CV4010 as a back up for my Little Dot MK IV SE, but since they also work in the I+, I thought I'd give it a go as I hadn't tube rolled with this amp up until now.
   
  I've experienced too much change in my headphone setup recently to provide any solid impressions of the LD I+ with the CV4010 over the 6J1 stock tube, but I believe I have noticed an increase in detail and a 'richer' sound, it's certainly an improvement over the stock tube.
   
  The LD I+ is my primary amp at the moment as my MK IV has had to go back to Little Dot due to a fault. I'm using it to burn in my new HD 650, and to be fair to the I+, it isn't doing too bad a job of powering them.
   
  I'm going to order a LME49720 opamp to see what difference it makes over the stock one.


----------



## Aynjell

Quote: 





jr41 said:


> I just got a matched pair of CV4010 from Langrex (you don't need to change jumpers when switching from the stock tube to the CV4010). I'll second comments that Langrex is an excellent seller - very fast shipment and excellent packaging. I brought the CV4010 as a back up for my Little Dot MK IV SE, but since they also work in the I+, I thought I'd give it a go as I hadn't tube rolled with this amp up until now.
> 
> I've experienced too much change in my headphone setup recently to provide any solid impressions of the LD I+ with the CV4010 over the 6J1 stock tube, but I believe I have noticed an increase in detail and a 'richer' sound, it's certainly an improvement over the stock tube.
> 
> ...


 

 So you're saying it's compatible with the 408A settings or the 6JI settings? People really should clarify because tubes aren't exactly the same and the amp can be ordered in 1 of 2 stock configurations.
   
  BTW, lme49720 has little compatibility with the I+. It just ends up sounding sterile and gross on my srh840's and my grados.


----------



## jr41

Good point. I was referring to the 6JI stock tube (I do specify this in the second paragraph of my post).
   
  Thanks for your feedback about the LME49720. I considered trying this opamp as I have read good comments about it's sound with the I+ in this thread, and comments about the high DC offset of the other opamps concerned me.


----------



## Aynjell

Quote: 





jr41 said:


> Good point. I was referring to the 6JI stock tube (I do specify this in the second paragraph of my post).
> 
> Thanks for your feedback about the LME49720. I considered trying this opamp as I have read good comments about it's sound with the I+ in this thread, and comments about the high DC offset of the other opamps concerned me.


 
   
  I've tried all the biggies. Of all those I've used the OPA2107 is the best. It provides a large sound stage, and basically lets the tubes do the talking.


----------



## john57

So far my OPA2107  has been staying in my Little Dot 1+ after trying a bunch of OpAmps and I am just content to the way things are working out and no more update lust. The Ultramatch 2496 DAC/ADC has been working very well for my needs since my Sonic Frontiers tube DAC blew.


----------



## lessblue

OPA2107 is what I use as well in my LD I+.


----------



## REDH0RN

Quote: 





lessblue said:


> OPA2107 is what I use as well in my LD I+.


 
  Got my 2107 and Mullard's over a month before my amp which I'm hoping will arrive some time next week :~)


----------



## jr41

Looks like the OPA2107 is the way to go then!


----------



## proteinpig

I bought a LD I+ yesterday and am really excited 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 This is my first tube amp (or any amp for that matter). It also comes with LT1364 opamp. What tubes would you guys suggest to start off for the warmest sound possible? I read that Sylvania 408A tubes are the best one can get and WE 408A tubes are good as well. But how do they perform in the bass and sub bass sections? I would like to start with a tube with the strongest bass even if that would mean sacrificing some of the highs.


----------



## Aynjell

Quote: 





proteinpig said:


> I bought a LD I+ yesterday and am really excited
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  They give a very warm and deep presentation. I have some for sale if you need some.


----------



## honmashinsei

What is the best eBay seller (or item code) for a good OPA2107 for the I+? There are a lot of different ones on there.


----------



## ShenaRingo326

i've bought 4x OPA2107 and 2x LM4562 from audiosector on ebay, shipped quickly and the opamps come packaged in hard plastic case and antistatic bag.


----------



## honmashinsei

Thanks ShenaRingo326!


----------



## Thran

Also got my OPA2107 from Audiosector and came the same way.


----------



## honmashinsei

Thanks Thran.
   
  Another question: I mostly listen to my music for short periods (less than 1, or between 1 and 2 hours). How long do the amp and/or the tubes take to "warm up"? Is it smart to choose for the LD I+ when I mostly have short listening sessions?


----------



## Aynjell

For those of you who have followed my movements, I'm now at two combos:
   
  The I+ operates best with stock op amp or the OPA2107.
  The I+ operates best with stock tubes or m8083, but lately I'm leaning towards the stock 6JI. They just really open this amp up. I may have to look at after market 6JI equivelents because these tubes sound wonderful, even though they're cheap chinese tubes.
   
  To clarify that statement, they're CHEAP. 10$ a set, shipping is outrageous from china, but the tubes are cheap. They sound way better than their cost, though, and given that they're stock with the I+, burn them in and get listening.


----------



## REDH0RN

I finally got my LD I+. How do I set the jumpers for 120 ohm phones and M8083 tubes? Is the OPAMP directional (does it have to be inserted a specification direction)? I see a half circle cut-out on mounting plate on board and OPAMP has a little dimple on one end. I assume they are to be aligned together.


----------



## proteinpig

Quote:


redh0rn said:


> I finally got my LD I+. How do I set the jumpers for 120 ohm phones and M8083 tubes? Is the OPAMP directional (does it have to be inserted a specification direction)? I see a half circle cut-out on mounting plate on board and OPAMP has a little dimple on one end. I assume they are to be aligned together.


 

 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6037680/Little%20Dot%20I%2B%20Reference%20Guide.pdf


----------



## REDH0RN

Was looking for someone to specify jumper placement for my intended tubes and cans. Not a link. I know where to find it, but in crashes my browser :~(
  I am not sure which _family_ the Mullards belong to? The manual make no mention of the M8083's.


----------



## HeatFan12

The M8083 is in the EF91 family.  Set the jumpers for the EF91/EF92 family.


----------



## REDH0RN

Quote: 





heatfan12 said:


> The M8083 is in the EF91 family.  Set the jumpers for the EF91/EF92 family.


 
  Thanks :~) Got it up and running. Volume output was minimal so I removed the gain jumpers. Am a little disappointed that I have to go to max volume on some songs using an iPod and LOD. Sound quality is however great and if it improves with time then I will be a _happy camper._


----------



## HeatFan12

Congrats RED...........
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  The highest ohm cans I have tried with the I+ has been 75ohm and I keep the jumpers on (low) and seldom ever reach 12 o'clock on the pot.
   
  Enjoy!


----------



## Trapper32

Quote: 





redh0rn said:


> I finally got my LD I+. How do I set the jumpers for 120 ohm phones and M8083 tubes? Is the OPAMP directional (does it have to be inserted a specification direction)? I see a half circle cut-out on mounting plate on board and OPAMP has a little dimple on one end. I assume they are to be aligned together.


 


  Yes the OPAMP is directional..  Yes they have to be aligned.  Failure to do so usually causes damage..


----------



## Aynjell

There's usually a half circle shape on the op amp and on the socket. Make sure they're both facing the same direction. If there's a circular indention, that side is the side of the half circle.
   



   
  Providing our amps are identical (there have been revisions) this half moon faces the front of the amp.


----------



## REDH0RN

Quote: 





heatfan12 said:


> Congrats RED...........
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## HeatFan12

In the manual, there are different jumpers for gain.  They are separate from the tube selection.  IIRC, there is 3 & 7 for gain.  The high gain is 7 I believe.  Some head-fiers advised that when they went with high gain, the volume pot was fairly loose.  I have never changed those jumpers, because the default was just right for my phones.


----------



## REDH0RN

OK. Manual in hand. Appears there are two possible gain settings. J3 & J4 installed = 3.5 low
  J3/J4 removed = 7 high. 
   
  If this is so will high yield more output to phones? Trying to avoid opening up again to compare.


----------



## jr41

Quote: 





redh0rn said:


> OK. Manual in hand. Appears there are two possible gain settings. J3 & J4 installed = 3.5 low
> J3/J4 removed = 7 high.
> 
> If this is so will high yield more output to phones? Trying to avoid opening up again to compare.


 
   
  Yes, removing the jumpers does provide an increase in volume.
   
  I'm surprised you're maxing out on low gain setting with 120 ohm headphones. With my 70 ohm headphone - the Sennheiser HD 25-1, listening range was up to 9 o'clock at the most before it became far too loud - if I recall correctly. I have driven my HD 650 (300 ohm) from the I+ on high gain setting, and again only the first quarter or so of the volume is use-able without becoming too loud.
   
  Which headphone are you using exactly?


----------



## Trapper32

Agree.  I'm guessing his source is not set to max volume.
  
  Quote: 





jr41 said:


> Yes, removing the jumpers does provide an increase in volume.
> 
> I'm surprised you're maxing out on low gain setting with 120 ohm headphones. With my 70 ohm headphone - the Sennheiser HD 25-1, listening range was up to 9 o'clock at the most before it became far too loud - if I recall correctly. I have driven my HD 650 (300 ohm) from the I+ on high gain setting, and again only the first quarter or so of the volume is use-able without becoming too loud.
> 
> Which headphone are you using exactly?


----------



## REDH0RN

*Quote:*
   
*Which headphone are you using exactly?*
   
   
  AKG K601's. Source = Gen 4 iPod connected via RAM Electronics LOD so source volume has no effect.


----------



## honmashinsei

Has anyone tried the uDac-2 + Little Dot I+ combo? How is it?


----------



## jr41

Quote: 





redh0rn said:


> AKG K601's. Source = Gen 4 iPod connected via RAM Electronics LOD so source volume has no effect.


 
   
  Puzzling.
   
  Have you tried the I+ with a different headphone?
  Have you plugged the line out from your ipod into a different amp?
  Are you sure you have the jumper settings correct for the tubes you've installed?
   
  Quote: 





okthxbye said:


> Has anyone tried the uDac-2 + Little Dot I+ combo? How is it?


 
   
  I've used the original uDac as a source with my I+ and HD 25-1. I don't recall thinking anything negative about the combination in terms of it being too warm/cold, etc. With the volume on the udac set above 2 o'clock I recall getting distortion, but it sounded pretty good providing I didn't set it any higher than that.
   
  I haven't compared since installing better tubes in the I+, but I found the I+ didn't really offer any benefit over the uDac headphone out with the HD 25-1.


----------



## Aynjell

Quote: 





jr41 said:


> Puzzling.
> 
> Have you tried the I+ with a different headphone?
> Have you plugged the line out from your ipod into a different amp?
> ...


 


  The funny thing is I still vehemently believe the stock tubes are the best tubes I've used so far. Even better than the M8083. All the other tubes fall vastly short of the 6JI's sound stage, mids, bass, and highs. It's just all there in that little chinese tube.


----------



## mmayer167

@okthxbye, yea ive got the udac2 feeding my ld1+ with great results


----------



## honmashinsei

Quote: 





mmayer167 said:


> @okthxbye, yea ive got the udac2 feeding my ld1+ with great results


 


 Thanks for your reply! Does it sound any better than the headphone out of the uDac-2? What headphones are you using? I'm asking because I wonder if there will be any significant difference of using the LD I+ with the uDac-2 versus just the uDac-2 HP-out. Is the amp significantly better than the amp in the uDac-2?


----------



## mmayer167

Yes, it sounds better than the headphone out of the udac2. Im using my thunderpants (modded fostex t50rp-power hungry to say the least) and hd600 ocasionally. Yes, the results are far better using the ld1+ compared to just the hp out of the udac2. depending on what headphones you have you might be completely satisfied with the hp out of the udac2 but many higher end drivers just dont sound their best out of the udac hp out. 
   
  M


----------



## honmashinsei

Quote: 





mmayer167 said:


> Yes, it sounds better than the headphone out of the udac2. Im using my thunderpants (modded fostex t50rp-power hungry to say the least) and hd600 ocasionally. Yes, the results are far better using the ld1+ compared to just the hp out of the udac2. depending on what headphones you have you might be completely satisfied with the hp out of the udac2 but many higher end drivers just dont sound their best out of the udac hp out.
> 
> M


 

 I'm using Alessandro MS-1i's and planning to buy Denon D2000 later. Will that be worth the upgrade?


----------



## Aynjell

Quote: 





okthxbye said:


> I'm using Alessandro MS-1i's and planning to buy Denon D2000 later. Will that be worth the upgrade?


 


  I was not impressed by the denons at canjam. I remember them sounding just plain terrible, like the low lows and high highs were cut off or something. I personally don't think they're much of an upgrade over open cans at all, but over other closed, very well might be.
   
  Edit: I should also clarify that for me, SRH840 sounds magnitudes better and even more so from the Little dot I+. At 60$ cheaper, the SRH840 are a no brainer for me. As a disclaimer, I don't remember which denon I heard but they were wood cup so at least AH-D5000. And they just sounded horrible to me. I might not have had a good seal, but they were heavy, uncomfortable and didn't sound good.
   
  The SRH840 are moderately heavy but hte biggest downfall is they're bulky as heck. my Grados are easier to wear then they are, but they beat out the ATH-AD700 for gaming for me, briding a wonderful gap where closed and open cans stand... closed so no leak, but sound stage like open cans and a clearer flatter presentation than ATH's. Just a better closed can and a better gaming can for me.


----------



## mmayer167

i have no experience with denons and the only grado i've had was a sr60 for a few months, I liked the sr60 but that was so long ago i was just buying and selling to find out what i liked... sorry i cant help there.
   
   
  Edit: by the way tube rollers, i've been listening to the mullard ef91 for a while now and it really compares to the we408a well. Very close in sound. i guess all i can say is that the ef91 is a clearer version of the 408a imo. Im leaving it in for now, it pairs the best with the thunderpants


----------



## Aynjell

Quote: 





mmayer167 said:


> i have no experience with denons and the only grado i've had was a sr60 for a few months, I liked the sr60 but that was so long ago i was just buying and selling to find out what i liked... sorry i cant help there.
> 
> 
> Edit: by the way tube rollers, i've been listening to the mullard ef91 for a while now and it really compares to the we408a well. Very close in sound. i guess all i can say is that the ef91 is a clearer version of the 408a imo. Im leaving it in for now, it pairs the best with the thunderpants


 
   
  My findings with the EF91 is they pair better with everything. On occasion I found a tube that sounded good with x can but terrible with everything else... the EF91 paired well with everything. The stock tubes sound good with everything too and far more airy. I will be buying 4 more EF91's probably to see if my EF91's died or I just grew tired of them. I just remember loving them and all of a sudden just hating them.


----------



## mmayer167

I got my ef91's from langrex in the uk off ebay. 30$ for a matched pair isnt bad!   search langrex or yitry and you should find the seller, they are in perfect condition.
   
  I agree, the stock tubes are really just as good as any other, just different not worse or better...
   
  M


----------



## Aynjell

Quote: 





mmayer167 said:


> I got my ef91's from langrex in the uk off ebay. 30$ for a matched pair isnt bad!   search langrex or yitry and you should find the seller, they are in perfect condition.
> 
> I agree, the stock tubes are really just as good as any other, just different not worse or better...
> 
> M


 





   
  It's where I got my tubes about 10 months ago as well. I'll order 4 more once my ebay bucks clear.


----------



## mmayer167

^ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   cool


----------



## herbiesepz

Dept_of_Alchemy said:
			
		

> /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> A good and trusted source for Little Dot tubes would be Yen Audio on ebay, all of the tubes sold by YA are matched pairs which in my experience is very important in terms of portraying an accurate and believable soundstage. It looks like they're stocking some 408A tubes just for the I+. Highly recommended place to start looking at LD upgrade tubes if you're just starting out in the tube amp hobby.
> 
> http://stores.ebay.com/Yen-Audio_Lit...QQftidZ2QQtZkm






Now I got it, Thanks for your sharing! It is exactly what I need.


----------



## herbiesepz

Dept_of_Alchemy said:
			
		

> /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> A good and trusted source for Little Dot tubes would be Yen Audio on ebay, all of the tubes sold by YA are matched pairs which in my experience is very important in terms of portraying an accurate and believable soundstage. It looks like they're stocking some 408A tubes just for the I+. Highly recommended place to start looking at LD upgrade tubes if you're just starting out in the tube amp hobby.
> 
> http://stores.ebay.com/Yen-Audio_Lit...QQftidZ2QQtZkm






Now I got it, Thanks for your sharing! It is exactly what I need.


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote: 





herbiesepz said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Be careful, the above post is fairly old.  Yen Audio went sour over a year ago or so and all types of problems happened with tubes never received etc. etc.


----------



## iTube

Hello, Little Dot I+ Threaders,
   
  Last weekend, I acquired a used Little Dot I+ and after reading through most of the 63 pages of this enormous and quite informative thread, I wanted to share my initial reaction to this tiny wonder.
   
  I brought a classic iPod and my old ATH-M40fs to meet the seller whom I found through a local Craigslist ad. After plugging in everything, I listened and was quite dismayed. I thought it was terrible and underpowered and I told the guy so. He asked to listen to my headphones and said that's not what it sounded through his Grado SR80. He hooked it up and allowed me to listen through it. The difference was simply astounding.
   
  I had done my homework on the LD I+ and I thought that the ATH-M40fs, with an impedance of 60 ohms, would work perfectly well with it. But not so, not even with a real cd player as source. I tried the original iPod earbuds on the LD I+ and they were so much better than the M40fs. 
   
  My LD I+ came with a pair of Sylvania GB408a and when I opened the case, I found a BB OPA2227AP inside. I'm using it with a system consisting of an iMac AIFF digital out, Musiland MD10 DAC and B&W P5 headphones. I'm more than satisfied with this setup: it's a keeper.
   
  Unlike most of you on this forum, I'm not really a tube/opamp roller. Once I find a setup I like, I tend to stick with it. So, anyway, the LD I+ also came with a bunch of different tubes: 1 pair WE408a, 1 pair Mullard EF92, 2 pairs Sylvania GB408a in new boxes, and 6 pairs Sylvania GB408a in really old boxes, the ones with gold pins. 
   
  I have no idea what the protocol for selling items in this forum is, but I was thinking that I'll only be keeping the Mullards and 2 pairs of the old Sylvania GB408a. I'd like to sell the others after I've tested them to make sure they actually work. If anyone is interested, let me know. I'll post pics of the tubes next time. Also, let me know if this is not the appropriate way to sell items on this forum 
   
  Thanks.


----------



## mopiko

i have the beyerdynamic DT990 250ohms; will this Dot I+ drive it? Budget constrain..


----------



## Aynjell

Quote: 





mopiko said:


> i have the beyerdynamic DT990 250ohms; will this Dot I+ drive it? Budget constrain..


 


  No. The MK II however would.


----------



## civilwarland

Hey guys,
   
  I don't know if I'm way late to the party here, but I've been rolling op-amps and tubes recently for the LD I+. It's been pretty fun. The OPA2107 was a bit too dark and bassy at the expense of the highs for me. This was especially the case when I combined it with the Mullard tubes. The LM4562 was way too bright I felt, even using the Mullards. So, I settled on the LT1364, which I had read about and seemed to be the mid-range consensus. So I'm not breaking any ceilings in that department.
   
  But I have found that the Telefunken AK5W's work great with the LT1364 and Grado 325i's. I have yet to try the GB408A's, but I've gotten my hands on the Amperex 6AK5W's, the Voshods, the Mullards, and of course the WE 408A's.  None of these compare to the midrange clarity/highs/not-underwhelming-bass of the Telefunkens.  So yeah, if there's anyone out there who is looking for a tube rec. from a fellow Little Dot AMATEUR music listener (can't bring myself to evoke that "audiophile" pride) and first-time poster, I suggest the Telefunkens if you can't find the syls.  I also really appreciate all the well-formulated posts about the Little Dot that preceded my interest in audio.  This is a great forum!


----------



## iTube

Just wanted to post a couple of pics of the Sylvania Gold Brand GB408A I have, for those interested. I've already sold a pair on eBay for $75 and I have 8 pairs left. I'm keeping 2 pairs for myself and selling the others. I'm posting another pair on eBay tomorrow, auction starts at $49.99 and BIN at $75 with free shipping. I'm willing to sell to Head-Fi'ers for $65/pair shipped by USPS priority mail to a US address. 
   
  As you can see in the pics, they are not the ones with the gold pins. I have one of those but it's not for sale


----------



## iTube

Here's a photo of an older Sylvania GB408A with gold pins:


----------



## ArmAndHammer

I am getting ready to dive into this thread but I was hoping I could get some help, thus saving my some time. I still will be reading this thread even if I get the answers I am looking for...there just looks like too much info to pass up. Anyways...I bought my LD1+ two years ago. Based on recommendations, I promptly purchased a matched set of Sylvania GB-408A tubes. Not sure if they are gold pins...I'll have to pull to make sure, but I don't remember then being. Anyways, I love the sound with my Grado 325's and I am not really too interested in rolling tubes. I am more interested in getting recommendations on tubes that are as close to the same sound as the ones I currently have but that might be easier to get and cheaper too. I just want to have an extra set or two on hand for when the day comes and my current tubes finally give up the ghost. Oh...I also have the stock opamps too.


----------



## Quimi

Mullard EF91, well.
   
http://cgi.ebay.es/M8083-CV4014-EF91-MULLARD-MATCHED-PAIR-/310087990802?pt=UK_Consumer_VintageAudio_RL&hash=item4832af3e12#ht_566wt_932


----------



## ArmAndHammer

Yeah...I got to around page 30 and those keep popping up. They seem like something worth trying and are cheap enough. I would love to find another pair of GB408's at a reasonable price though. After looking around...the couple I saw on ebay last week...the $45 shipped I paid two years ago seems like a steal...lol


----------



## GotNoRice

I have a Little-Dot I+ on the way.
   
  Since it’s going to be a while before it arrives, I wanted to get some new tubes to try with it when it arrives.  I already have 2 different OpAmps ordered.
   
  I ordered a few different pairs of EF95’s that were fairly cheap but all of the 408a’s seem a bit overpriced.
   
  The thing is, I have tons of EF92 (and equivalent) tubes from the 4+ years of owning my Little-Dot II+ and II++.
   
  Since I already have a pair of Mullard CV4015’s, is it worth seeking out a pair of CV4010’s or CV4014’s?  Am I missing anything just using the CV4015’s?
   
  Am I missing anything by not having any 408a’s to try?


----------



## GotNoRice

Wow, the I+ arrived this morning.  It got here from china faster than a single one of the tubes or OpAmps I ordered, even though most of those were from within the US.  I hadn’t even got my tracking number yet, I didn’t even think they had finished building it yet, but there it was on my doorstep.  I’ll give it a spin with the stock tubes then try out some of my EF92s.
   
  This thing is Tiny compared to my II+ and II++


----------



## ShenaRingo326

Quote: 





gotnorice said:


> ... Am I missing anything by not having any 408a’s to try?


 


  i've been listening to the I+ with OPA2107 + WE408A for about 3 months, and i've just recently rolled in a pair of Mullard EF91, and on first listen i find that the WE408A provided more bass than the EF91, so you may want to give the 408A's a try if you find the bass a bit lacking with your existing tubes


----------



## GotNoRice

I was able to find some "JAN 6028" 408A's for a pretty good price.  I think they are Phillips but who knows?  They haven't arrived yet.  I'm not sure if I should still be on the hunt for a pair of Western Electric or Sylvania tubes.
  
 I only tried it with the stock Chinese 6JI tubes for a short period of time.  I'm not sure if I really gave them a fair chance, but I was very eager to start trying out my EF92s.  They sounded a bit thin but that is really the only impression I have.  One thing that is nice about the EF92s I have is that they are all burned in already.
  
 The first tubes I tried were a pair of Mullard CV4015 tubes.  They seemed like a nice improvement over the 6JI tubes, with better extended bass, warmer, and a bit better on the top end also.  I didn't use these much on my II+ or II++ because I thought they sounded a bit light on the bass and were a bit bright, but they sound great in the I+
  
 The next pair I tired were a regular pair of Mullard CV131 tubes.  I liked these in my other units because I thought they had well rounded bass (more than the CV4015s) with warm mids and good highs (not as bright as the CV4015s).  I found that to still be true with the I+, but I did notice that the CV131s seem to have a rather steep roll-off for the lower bass.  I never remember this being an issue before but I didn't have my XB700's last time I used them in my other amps, and it really brings out the lower bass.  Overall the small midbass hump wasn't worth the loss of the lower bass.
  
 After that I tried a pair of Ultron EF92s.  The construction of these is identical to a pair of Ediswan EF92s I have, to the extent I'm pretty sure they are basically the same tube.  These are generally my go-to pair of tubes on my other units for when I want the best bass while still having good mids and highs (just not quite as warm and sparkly as the mullards).  In the I+ however it seemed to make the bass a bit too fat and bloated.  I think in the same way it helped bring out the bass on my all-tube units, it made it a bit too much on the I+.  It did have the highest bass quantity though, so I'll revisit these very quickly once I have other OpAmps to play with.


----------



## Trapper32

Quote: 





armandhammer said:


> I am getting ready to dive into this thread but I was hoping I could get some help, thus saving my some time. I still will be reading this thread even if I get the answers I am looking for...there just looks like too much info to pass up. Anyways...I bought my LD1+ two years ago. Based on recommendations, I promptly purchased a matched set of Sylvania GB-408A tubes. Not sure if they are gold pins...I'll have to pull to make sure, but I don't remember then being. Anyways, I love the sound with my Grado 325's and I am not really too interested in rolling tubes. I am more interested in getting recommendations on tubes that are as close to the same sound as the ones I currently have but that might be easier to get and cheaper too. I just want to have an extra set or two on hand for when the day comes and my current tubes finally give up the ghost. Oh...I also have the stock opamps too.


 

 If you can find some NOS Sylvania 6AK5WB, they are a very nice tube that come close to the Gold Pins....


----------



## Aynjell

I don't understand why people like the sylvania's. heard 'em, well, not gold pins, just gold brands. If it's even the same character I have no interest in them.


----------



## ArmAndHammer

Good...that just means more tubes for those of us that do like them.
  
  Quote: 





aynjell said:


> I don't understand why people like the sylvania's. heard 'em, well, not gold pins, just gold brands. If it's even the same character I have no interest in them.


----------



## shipsupt

I'm glad to see this thread is still active.  By now the I+ is old news to many here, but it's new and exciting to some of us!
   
  I received my I+ recently from a fellow HeadFi'er, did a little house cleaning with some Deoxit as the seller said he had a little noise in the circuit.  After cleaning and warming up I was not hearing anything, so I've started my listening.  I'm running the stock Op-Amp and some JAN 5654W's and so far I am really enjoying what I am hearing.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I've got two new headphones that I am burning in and a new DAC in the current set up so I don't want to offer any detailed impressions until I can better get my ears around the new kit.  I should probably do some listening with the gear I've had on my head long term, but you know how hard it is not to play with the new toys.
   
  I've started a little stock pile of tubes and op amps and I am looking forward to exploring some rolling.  Currently waiting for a rotation are the stock 6J1's, RCA EF95, Philco 6AK5, and the ever popular Sylvania GB 408A's (gold pins for what it's worth).  On the SS side a 1364, 4562, and a 2107 arrived by mail today.  Just exploring these will give me a lot of listening time looking for the combination that suits me.
   
  I have made it pretty far through this thread, and I'll finish soon, but I noticed mention of the DC offset of the 1364... that it could cause some damage and may not be recommended for the I+, but I also see that many are still running it.  Was there any confirmation on if the 1364 is or is not recommended?  I wouldn't want to risk damaging my equipment and there are other options... any advice on this?
   
  Chris


----------



## Aynjell

Quote: 





armandhammer said:


> Good...that just means more tubes for those of us that do like them.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 
   
  I wish everyone felt that way, been trying to sell mine for ages.


----------



## ArmAndHammer

PM me...I might be interested.


----------



## henree

Can you guys fill in tube families that fit with these descriptions
  Bright =
  Tight Bass=
  Clarity=
  These are the characteristics that I want, in order  to balance my warm sounding Denon D2000 headphones. If there is one pair that can embody those three traits I will be happy.


----------



## Aynjell

Quote: 





henree said:


> Can you guys fill in tube families that fit with these descriptions
> Bright =
> Tight Bass=
> Clarity=
> These are the characteristics that I want, in order  to balance my warm sounding Denon D2000 headphones. If there is one pair that can embody those three traits I will be happy.


 

 M8083 is the clearest and widest sounding tube I've heard with the widest range of compatibility acrossed all my headphones.The 6JI are a close second I feel.


----------



## henree

Is there a resource on the web that has a Tube thesaurus. Something with a brief description of a Vacuum tubes sonic signature?


----------



## Aynjell

Quote: 





henree said:


> Is there a resource on the web that has a Tube thesaurus. Something with a brief description of a Vacuum tubes sonic signature?


 


  At this point, not that I know of. The trouble is, tubes can sound radically different in different environments. M8161 is amazing in MKII, terribad in the I+. To be more specific:
   
  it's open, but dark and heavy on the MK II but not bloated. On the I+, it's dark and heavy but very constrained and lacking depth... just bass bloat.


----------



## jimmyjames

I am an idiot.
   
  I opened my amp yesterday and changed the switches to run 408As. I then got a phone call, got distracted, and started listening to the amp with the 6J1s tubes still installed.
   
  Mmmmm...the smell of burning electronics.
   
  Lesson learned, always remove the tubes before switching jumpers.
   
  Just thought I'd share so anyone else that does this knows they aren't the only ones.


----------



## GotNoRice

Quote: 





aynjell said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 That is completely different than my experience with the M8161 in the I+, it's actually one of my favorite tubes right now.
   
  That only helps to prove your point of course, that it would be extremely difficult to make a guide given all the different variables and even the degree to which individual user experiences can vary.


----------



## Aynjell

Quote: 





gotnorice said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 This is why tube rolling is such a process it's a sub hobby of audiophilia. To explain in lay, say you have several glass lenses of varying colors and you setup a system to shine light through it. Depending on what lenses you use the color will change. Thankfully with colors it is very predictable, and sure enough with tubes it is too, but with the breadth of available tube options and the nature of music... it's very hard to simply go through threads like this and find something suitable.
   
  Everyone knows what green looks but not everyone agrees what it sounds like, if you'll pardon the clumsy comparison.
   
  I personally think the OPA2107 is the best dual op amp ever made, and the M8083 in the I+ paired with this op amp is absolutely amazing. Simply brilliant. others were less amazed... for me it was the pinnacle of audio quality in this amp... for sombody else it was meh... and those same people might turn around and praise a setup I openly bash.
   
  Such is tubes, and this is why we tube roll... because in EVERY case YMMV.


----------



## GotNoRice

I've been using a pair of Phillips JAN 6028 (408A) tubes and i've noticed that the Little-Dot I+ runs hotter and there is also much more gain when using these tubes.
   
  Are these things normal when using 408A tubes in general?


----------



## john57

[size=10pt]Using the 408A tubes requires that the jumper moved over the 408A position which in turn increases the heater voltage to the tubes. That may be in part why it runs hotter. [/size]


----------



## henree

Any recommendations on where to get tubes locally? Do you think flea markets carry tubes?


----------



## john57

[size=medium]Buying electronic parts at a [/size][size=10pt]flea market is the last place I will look since there is no way to tell the quality or if the tubes is available. I usually buy tubes on E-bay or on a few online web sites as well. By checking the ratings of various online vendors I can usually tell if the quality is good.  [/size]


----------



## 166848

just got my little dot 1+ in the mail today. stock tubes.... will listen to them for a while scared to mess with the other tubes i got off of ebay right now. truthfully cant tell much difference with the amp over just plugging into my ipod but with all the years of listening to music at "high volume" im sure my ears are not what they should be. i am happy i got it though.
   
   
  edit:
   i havent received my LOD to RCA cable yet, just plugging the RCA to the headphone jack of my ipod. dont know how much of a difference it will make when i get that.


----------



## henree

Quote: 





166848 said:


> just got my little dot 1+ in the mail today. stock tubes.... will listen to them for a while scared to mess with the other tubes i got off of ebay right now. truthfully cant tell much difference with the amp over just plugging into my ipod but with all the years of listening to music at "high volume" im sure my ears are not what they should be. i am happy i got it though.
> 
> 
> edit:
> i havent received my LOD to RCA cable yet, just plugging the RCA to the headphone jack of my ipod. dont know how much of a difference it will make when i get that.


 

  
  The LOD cable will have much better clarity than the rca cables/headphone jack cable.


----------



## henree

Just got my little dot. I want to use mullard 8083 bulbs. So I need to put jumper caps on j1 and j2. But I only have 4 caps. Two are on K1 and K2. THe other two are on J3 and J4. The guide says that the caps have to remain on J3 and J4 for low impedance headphones. My headphones are Denon d2000 26 ohms. Where do I get the other caps? Were they suppose to be included in the box?


----------



## GotNoRice

Quote: 





henree said:


> Just got my little dot. I want to use mullard 8083 bulbs. So I need to put jumper caps on j1 and j2. But I only have 4 caps. Two are on K1 and K2. THe other two are on J3 and J4. The guide says that the caps have to remain on J3 and J4 for low impedance headphones. My headphones are Denon d2000 26 ohms. Where do I get the other caps? Were they suppose to be included in the box?


 

 The Little-Dot I+ ships with an audio cable.  The jumpers are inside the bag with the audio cable.


----------



## Trapper32

Quote: 





henree said:


> Just got my little dot. I want to use mullard 8083 bulbs. So I need to put jumper caps on j1 and j2. But I only have 4 caps. Two are on K1 and K2. THe other two are on J3 and J4. The guide says that the caps have to remain on J3 and J4 for low impedance headphones. My headphones are Denon d2000 26 ohms. Where do I get the other caps? Were they suppose to be included in the box?


 

 If you can't find them included with your audio cable , the jumpers can be found at any computer repair shop.


----------



## GotNoRice

I bought a pair of Sylvania Gold 408A Tubes, and to my surprise, they sound very similar to the PhillipsECG 408A (JAN 6028) tubes I had been using previously.  Comparing the tubes visually, the construction seems to be extremely similar as well.
   
  After doing a bit of research, it seems that Phillips bought the electronic components division of Sylvania in the early 80s, which included their tube plant, and continued to manufacture tubes in the Sylvania plant branded as PhillipsECG until about 1987.  My PhillipsECG tubes are labeled 86 so that makes sense.
   
  I was surprised because others in the thread have claimed large differences between these tubes.


----------



## shipsupt

gotnorice said:


> I bought a pair of Sylvania Gold 408A Tubes, and to my surprise, they sound very similar to the PhillipsECG 408A (JAN 6028) tubes I had been using previously.  Comparing the tubes visually, the construction seems to be extremely similar as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





 


Careful, if word gets out the price of those tubes will triple on eBay! Interesting, and seems to make some sense. 

Are either gold tipped? (someone is bound to ask)

What opa are you using with them?

I notice you are in the bay area, are you going to make the meet in February?


----------



## GotNoRice

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Careful, if word gets out the price of those tubes will triple on eBay! Interesting, and seems to make some sense. Are either gold tipped? (someone is bound to ask)What opa are you using with them?I notice you are in the bay area, are you going to make the meet in February?


 





   
  Only the Sylvania tubes have gold pins, but you can see from the pictures just how similar the construction of the tubes are.
   
  Maybe because the Little-Dot I+ isn't a Fad-of-the-month amp anymore, the prices on 408A tubes in general seems to have come down.  The Sylvania tubes only cost me just over $20 shipped, about the same as it cost me to get the PhillipsECG tubes, however those came in a 5-pack.
   
  I'm using the LM4562 right now.  I also have an OPA2107 that I use sometimes but for me the LM4562 is a bit more detailed with a bit of grain (i like that) whereas the OPA2107 gives a slightly more energetic sound at the expense of a bit of bloat in the bass (IMO).
   
  Not sure about the meet, but probably not.  I just read about it yesterday; I'll give it some thought.


----------



## shipsupt

Thanks for the outstanding photos.  Very interesting.  In one way, I'm not surprised to see the similarity... as I understand the way the whole tube thing went down there were tons of patents and copyrights that prevented manufacturers from building similar tubes without paying royalties.  This drove manufacturers like Heintz & Kaufman in San Francisco to try and develop tubes that didn't require a getter (the gammatron)... they were largely unsuccessful. 
   
  That said, the history you've dug up seems to make a lot of sense and the dates seem to line up pretty well.  I'm definitely going to keep my eye out for some and give them a try at some point.
   
  I think you're right about the prices on the 408's too.  I recently saw five on ebay at a reasonable price so went ahead and grabbed them.  Turns out it was 5 pairs, so I ended up with 10 for a what I thought was a fair price for 5.  I think I'm pretty well set on 408 GB's for some time to come.  Funny thing, they're not the first tube I want to roll in, ha.
   
  I just dropped the OPA2107 in early today.  It's the first time I've tried an aftermarket OPA, and I picked it at random over the 4562 and a few others I have waiting.  I left the Jan-GE 5654W's I've had in there in place to not change too much at once.  I don't hear much about them good or bad.  For me they've been nicely detailed, warm, and seem quite strong on the lower end, but since I've not run anything else in the I+ I can't really compare them yet.  I burned them in at the same time I was first burning in my D7000's.  I did notice some harsh highs that have since settled down nicely, but of course I can't really nail down if that was the amp, cans, etc... 
   
  After letting things play for about 7 hours I've been listening now for little over an hour and so far not too much change is jumping out at me.  I'm going to give it more time and hit some of my go to tracks.  I'm listening with the D7000's so I am not surprised that the combo is pretty warm, down right strong on the low end, but I so far I don't feel wouldn't yet call it bloated, or in any way negative.  It is warm enough that I want to give the Grado's a spin tonight out of curiosity.
   
  Thanks for your interesting post.  If you do make it out to meet it would be interesting to set up a couple of combinations in separate I+'s to make some A/B'ing rather easy.  Wouldn't be all that scientific because of all of the variables, not to mention that every individual amp is going to have it's own sound, but it still might be fun!
   
  Sorry all for rambling on a bit.... I've been stuck in the house for two days fighting a little flu!  I obviously need to get out!!


----------



## henree

I put a little over 95 hours on my little dot. It sounds great. I just need more bass. I am using the stock opa and mullard 8083's. Need tube suggestions for bass.


----------



## Aynjell

Quote: 





henree said:


> I put a little over 95 hours on my little dot. It sounds great. I just need more bass. I am using the stock opa and mullard 8083's. Need tube suggestions for bass.


 


  Try the OPA2107, it will improve overall warmth and bass response.


----------



## shipsupt

henree said:


> I put a little over 95 hours on my little dot. It sounds great. I just need more bass. I am using the stock opa and mullard 8083's. Need tube suggestions for bass.





 


What source and cans are you using?


----------



## henree

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> What source and cans are you using?


 
  Denon D2000


----------



## mmayer167

I agree with aynjell on the matter of the 2107, i just did a swap between the stock op and 2107 with mullard 8083 and heard an improvement in warmth and bass with more overall energy as well. see my sig for setup if your wondering.
   
  i like the western 408A as well but with the stock op rather than the 2107. the sound of the 8083 with the 2107 is similar to the 408A with the stock op, with an exception which is the overall feel of energy you get with the 2107 8083 combo.
   
  cheers, enjoy this great little amp everyone! 
   
  M


----------



## shipsupt

henree said:


> Denon D2000





 


Certainly not bass shy cans! So if you are looking for more... I remember reading that some of the amperex tubes were pretty bass strong. Also, I think concensus is that the 2107 opa can boost the lowers, some find it a bit too warm for sure, but you might like that too. I'm finding the 5654's have plenty of low end grunt for me with my d7000's.


----------



## REB

I just bought a pair of the same gold-pinned sylvania to replace an earlier pair that went bust. I also have the philips tubes. there was a huge difference between the philips and my older sylvania (from 1964). Not sure about the newer sylvania's yet. Need to do some tuberolling!
  
  Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Careful, if word gets out the price of those tubes will triple on eBay! Interesting, and seems to make some sense. Are either gold tipped? (someone is bound to ask)What opa are you using with them?I notice you are in the bay area, are you going to make the meet in February?


 


   


  Quote: 





gotnorice said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## REB

Well, I just tried my pair of old sylvania 408a's (gold-pinned), which I had chucked out because of the continuous hum they started to cause. The hum is still there, but the excellent bass also. Much more excellent than the new pair I just purchased. Thanks for the heads up, GotNoRice, I might have thought otherwise the decreased bass was due to my headphones.
   
  Back to the fleabay to find old old sylvania's!


----------



## ShenaRingo326

there's a bunch of sylvania gold brand 480a gold pins available on ebay now
   
http://cgi.ebay.com/NOS-NIB-Sylvania-Gold-Brand-408A-6028-Tubes-Pair-/160537140209?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2560c25bf1#ht_500wt_726
   
  i bought some to try out to, will update when i get a chance to compare them with my other tubes


----------



## detoxguy

Quote: 





shenaringo326 said:


> there's a bunch of sylvania gold brand 480a gold pins available on ebay now
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/NOS-NIB-Sylvania-Gold-Brand-408A-6028-Tubes-Pair-/160537140209?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2560c25bf1#ht_500wt_726
> 
> i bought some to try out to, will update when i get a chance to compare them with my other tubes


 
  I bought a pair of those too after reading this thread. Unfortunately due to Chinese new year they are gonna arrive before my amp does. First tube amp, also ordered the OPA2107 as well. Can't wait to tinker and explore.


----------



## shipsupt

It wil give you good chance to enjoy it stock then you'll really be able compare the differences when they arrive. Enoy!


----------



## henree

Anybody have any issues with their tubes not lighting up? For the past few days my tubes have been very flaky. Sometimes they work fine. Others they remain cold and won't light up. So no sound is coming through. David hasn't responded to any of my emails since 3 weeks ago when I bought the unit from him. I even posted to the little dot forums. Which are still active. And he responds to other posters promptly. 
  Maybe he doesn't like me. LOL


----------



## REDH0RN

Quote: 





aynjell said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## shipsupt

henree said:


> Anybody have any issues with their tubes not lighting up? For the past few days my tubes have been very flaky. Sometimes they work fine. Others they remain cold and won't light up. So no sound is coming through. David hasn't responded to any of my emails since 3 weeks ago when I bought the unit from him. I even posted to the little dot forums. Which are still active. And he responds to other posters promptly.
> 
> 
> Maybe he doesn't like me. LOL





 


How long did you run without problems?

Are you Running the stock tubes or did you roll something in?

I would open the amp up and check the jumper connections for starters.

Do you have any other tubes to try?


Sorry for all the questions, More info might help with troubleshooting.


----------



## henree

I've been switching between sylvanias and mullard. Sometimes they work sometimes they don't. The led light in front is always on though. I just opened up the Dot and moved the jumpers around. The tubes are now working. Maybe I have a bad jumper?


----------



## henree

How does the Mullard 8083 compare with the Mullard 8161 sonically? 
  Also does anyone have experience with Russian EF95 tubes 6JIP-EV? I really want to buy these tubes. If I get them I use the same 
  setting as the 408A correct?


----------



## shipsupt

henree said:


> I've been switching between sylvanias and mullard. Sometimes they work sometimes they don't. The led light in front is always on though. I just opened up the Dot and moved the jumpers around. The tubes are now working. Maybe I have a bad jumper?





 

Doubt it but it's possible. They might have just needed to be seated, might have been a poor connection. Did you confirm the positions for the selected tubes?

Fingers crossed it keeps running!


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote: 





henree said:


> How does the Mullard 8083 compare with the Mullard 8161 sonically?
> Also does anyone have experience with Russian EF95 tubes 6JIP-EV? I really want to buy these tubes. If I get them I use the same
> setting as the 408A correct?


 

 I like 'em.  They are part of the EF95 family.  Jumpers must be set to EF95, not 408A.  I also like the Voshod 6ZH1P-EV, comparable to the 6JIP-EV.
   
  Cheers


----------



## henree

Quote: 





heatfan12 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 What are the settings for the EF95 family?


----------



## henree

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Doubt it but it's possible. They might have just needed to be seated, might have been a poor connection. Did you confirm the positions for the selected tubes?Fingers crossed it keeps running!


 

 If I leave it as is it will work fine. But if I change tubes the problem will start again. I ordered a of pack of mini jumpers. I thing I have a bad jumper. I just have to isolate it. Little Dot customer service has been abysmal for me. 5 emails have been sent to David. And he hasn't gotten back to me. He was cool during the first few emails after I got the amp. Now he has me on ignore or something.


----------



## HeatFan12

I believe the problems you might be having are the settings for different families of tubes.  The I+ takes three families- EF95, EF91 & 92 & 408A.  You must change the settings for each.  I have had my I+ for a long time and mine has jumpers.  Do you have the manual? I can send you mine but I believe the newer amps the config is different.  All three families have different voltages, heaters etc. and the settings have to concur.


----------



## shipsupt

heatfan12 said:


> I believe the problems you might be having are the settings for different families of tubes.  The I+ takes three families- EF95, EF91 & 92 & 408A.  You must change the settings for each.  I have had my I+ for a long time and mine has jumpers.  Do you have the manual? I can send you mine but I believe the newer amps the config is different.  All three families have different voltages and the setting have to concur.





 

X2 if they are not in the same family you have to swap jumpers, you might even risk damage. The heaters need different settings for different family tubes. 

Let us know if you need help, but the instruction manual is pretty clear.

If you are changing jumpers or they are in the same family I would be thinking bad tube instead of bad jumper.


----------



## V3ng3anc3

Quote: 





henree said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 David might be on holiday like Audio-GD, due to Chinese New Year.
   
  The following is from a previous post way back in the thread somewhere....
   
  To use WE408A tubes:
 1. K1 and K2 set to the side of the “WE408A” text
 2. Make sure the jumper caps are removed from J1 and J2 (open circuit)

 To use 6JI, 6AK5, 5654, WE403A/B, etc:
 1. K1 and K2 set to the side of the “6JI” text
 2. Make sure the jumper caps are removed from J1 and J2 (open circuit)

 To use EF91, EF92, CV131, CV138, etc:
 1. K1 and K2 set to the side of the “6JI” text
 2. Make sure the jumpers caps are in place over both J1 and J2 (short circuit)
   
  (EF91 = 6AM6 = Z77 = 6F12 = 8D3 = N79 = CV138 = 6064 = M8083 = CV4014)

 (EF92 = 6CQ6 = W77 = 6F21 = 9D6 = CV131 = 6065 = M8161 = CV4015)

 (EF95 = 6AK5 = 6j1p = 6069 = 6F32V = 6F32 = 5654 = 6ZH1P = M8100= 403A [=408a {heads up, higher heater voltages}])


----------



## henree

> > >
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote: 





henree said:


> > > > To use 6JI, 6AK5, 5654, WE403A/B, etc:
> > > > 1. K1 and K2 set to the side of the “6JI” text
> > > > 2. Make sure the jumper caps are removed from J1 and J2 (open circuit)
> >
> > ...


 


 Correct.  Those are all part of the EF95 family.  Look at V3ng3anc3's post.  That is a good guide.  There are many within the families of each.  Three different settings can be used with the 1) EF91 & 92   2) EF95   3) 408A.


----------



## shipsupt

Yes, EF95 is equivalent to 6AK5.


----------



## shipsupt

Anyone ever try the Mullard 8100, the "special quality" version of the EF95? I don't recall seeing it called out in the thread? I might give it a try...


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Anyone ever try the Mullard 8100, the "special quality" version of the EF95? I don't recall seeing it called out in the thread? I might give it a try...


 


 Yes...Great tubes....(CV4010)...AES had a bunch a while back for cheap.  Call them up and they'll check their stock and let you know exactly what they have.
   
http://www.tubesandmore.com/


----------



## HeatFan12

On another note, it's great to see this thread just keep going and going and going.  Over 1000 posts already.  The versatility on this little amp is awesome.  I'm getting ready to do a head to head with a couple of my 408As.  (Sylvania Gold 408A, GE 408A, Tung Sol 6028, Westinghouse 6028, Philips JAN 6028).
   
  Good times ahead...


----------



## shipsupt

heatfan12 said:


> Yes...Great tubes....(CV4010)...AES had a bunch a while back for cheap.  Call them up and they'll check their stock and let you know exactly what they have.
> 
> http://www.tubesandmore.com/





 


Thanks for the tip... Very cool.


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Thanks for the tip... Very cool.


 





   
  I'm rockin' some Sylvania Gold 408As with LT1364 op-amp w/ a PCDP (line-out) and Grados atm.  Very nice!  The amp that keeps on giving...lol...
   
  Cheers


----------



## henree

Can someone familiar with the M8161 describe its characteristics. I do like a warm sound. I am very happy with the 8083. But there are a lot of earlier posts that laud the 8161 as well. They are very expensive though. I can't find them cheaper than 30 bucks a pair on ebay.


----------



## detoxguy

Why did I have to discover this amp just before Chinese New Year? The wait is killing me.....my sylvania gold pins and opa2107 arrived yesterday and the amp will probably be at least another 2 weeks....


----------



## shipsupt

Quote: 





detoxguy said:


> Why did I have to discover this amp just before Chinese New Year? The wait is killing me.....my sylvania gold pins and opa2107 arrived yesterday and the amp will probably be at least another 2 weeks....


 


   It'll be worth the wait!


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *detoxguy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Why did I have to discover this amp just before Chinese New Year? The wait is killing me.....my sylvania gold pins and opa2107 arrived yesterday and
> the amp will probably be at least another 2 weeks....


 


 Worth the wait indeed!
   
  A little SR60 & SR225 love with a FLAC-filled ipod and some Tung-Sol 6028s...Good times...


----------



## REDH0RN

> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## detoxguy

I asked about changing the LED colour and David said he could but it would delay my shipping by a few days. Of course I told him not to. I'm pretty happy that the holiday is over tomorrow and hopefully it ships soon. 
  
  Quote: 





redh0rn said:


> > Quote:
> >
> >
> >
> > ...


----------



## V3ng3anc3

Just received my Sylvania 408A GB! :] Got it for $21 shipped, much cheaper than I expected after reading through this thread. So far it sounds fantastic with OPA2107 with my Grado SR325is.


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote: 





v3ng3anc3 said:


> Just received my Sylvania 408A GB! :] Got it for $21 shipped, much cheaper than I expected after reading through this thread. So far it sounds fantastic with OPA2107 with my Grado SR325is.


 


 A little Sylvania Gold 408A love from me too this afternoon...


----------



## henree

I just received my Mullard CV131 ef92 tubes from the UK. And right out the box they sound very good. They have a darker tone than my Mullard 8083. But I can already tell the bass will grow to surpass the 8083 with burn in. Unfortunately my Gold Brand Sylvania 408A's weren't right for my tastes. After 60 hours of burn in they are just a little too laid back sonically. The bass is lacking as well. I would describe them as neutral with a smooth sheen to the music. If I hadn't already been spoiled with the majestic refinement of the Mullard 8083's I might have liked them a bit more. 
  I got one more pair on order. The Russian 6zh1p-EV. I will let you guys know how they pair with my D2000 when they arrive next week.


----------



## shipsupt

henree said:


> I just received my Mullard CV131 ef92 tubes from the UK. And right out the box they sound very good. They have a darker tone than my Mullard 8083. But I can already tell the bass will grow to surpass the 8083 with burn in. Unfortunately my Gold Brand Sylvania 408A's weren't right for my tastes. After 60 hours of burn in they are just a little too laid back sonically. The bass is lacking as well. I would describe them as neutral with a smooth sheen to the music. If I hadn't already been spoiled with the majestic refinement of the Mullard 8083's I might have liked them a bit more.
> 
> 
> I got one more pair on order. The Russian 6zh1p-EV. I will let you guys know how they pair with my D2000 when they arrive next week.





 


Thanks for the impressions. As a denon listener I'll be looking forward to hearing about what you think about the ruskies.


----------



## Faulkick

Quote: 





faulkick said:


> Hey people, complete noob to pretty well everything here, so sorry if I leave out valuable information, however I have had the Little Dot I+ for a couple of years now, and well I was recently adjusting one of my monitors, when it fell out of place of it's stand, and crushed one of the stock tubes on my LDI+.
> 
> So I am looking to replace the pair of them as from what I read on here, it is important to have an exact match of two tubes.
> 
> ...


 


  Hello all once again, I forgot all about my posting in this thread, however I am now getting onto all of this.
   
  I am about to order a set of tubes however I obviously want to make sure that I order something which I can use.
   
  Going by the advice of 'Cristox';
   
  To use EF91, EF92, CV131, CV138, etc:
 1. K1 and K2 set to the side of the “6JI” text
 2. Make sure the jumpers caps are in place over both J1 and J2 (short circuit)
   
  As these are what the tubes I am looking to go with, I have done as suggested, however I purchased this amp quite a while ago, and can not remember what I did with any packaging that I may have received, so I therefore do not have any spare jumpers. I do have access to a PC store though, so I am wondering if the jumpers are the same as jumpers used on motherboards? Or should I just order some from ebay (I am more than happy to do this). If I am to do this, is there anything else which I should order while I am at it? Or is changing the jumpers all that I need to do in order to change tubes?
   
  Once more, I am ordering some which are in the EF91 family, probably the ones listed in my quoted post, are these good quality?
   
  I thank you all for the help, and I hope that eventually I will have enough knowledge to be able to help others out.


----------



## shipsupt

faulkick said:


> Hello all once again, I forgot all about my posting in this thread, however I am now getting onto all of this.
> 
> I am about to order a set of tubes however I obviously want to make sure that I order something which I can use.
> 
> ...





Those mullards look fine and should be good tube for you try.

As for the jumpers, yes you can get them from your local PC store. And yes, just make sure you make the proper jumper adjustment, roll the tubes, and rock out! 

Have fun rolling in the new tubes!


----------



## detoxguy

Bahhhhh, I have received my opa2107 and my GB408A tubes but my amp has still not shipped. I'm expecting it to ship any day now but every time I get an email that isn't my shipping notice a single tear runs down my cheek....
   
  EDIT: shipped


----------



## cruizin caleb

hi, its time for a change in my tubes for my LDI+. I have the Ediswan EF92 which my little dot came with (upgraded). then i got two Mullard EF91 tubes which I've been using for a while now - i prefer them much over the Ediswan EF92.... 
   
  i've been reading through the thread and decided i want to get some Russian 6J1P tubes.
   
  i'm looking on ebay, and I'm wondering if these are all the same thing, or if people have tried different ones... i need help deciding which ones to try.....
   
   
6J1P EF95 6F32 6AK7 NOS *VOSKHOD* 70's MATCHED PAIR TUBE
   
   
2 matched 6J1P-EV (EF95 6AK7) Gold-Platinum grid
   
6J1P=EF95 *SVETLANA* MATCHED PAIR tube 1960's for Little Dot MK II
   
6J1P EF95 6F32 6AK7 *NOVOSIBIRSK* MATCHED PAIR TUBE
   
6J1P EF95 6F32 6AK7 =C= *SVETLANA* 60's MATCHED PAIR TUBE
   
   
  Voskhod VS ?????? VS Svetlana VS Novosibirsk VS Sevetlana
   
  does it matter?
   
  sooo many choices


----------



## henree

Just let my 6zh1p-ev tubes burn in for a little over 100 hours. They sound real good. Not M8083 good. But good if you cant find the 8083'a anywhere. 
  It has a very dry sound. THe frequency range is the strong point. By that I mean there are no weak points from the lows all the way up to the highs. The problem is they don't excell in any particular sonic
  category. The bass has a mid bass texture. It doesn't extend too deep though. The highs are effortless. These tubes cut through highs without any sibilance. There is something weird about the Mids though.
  THere is a kind of echoey effect going on. Its like those stereo presets. Like if you choose the 'concert hall' SQ on your home receiver. At first I thought it was increased soundstage. But I just think it is a unique trait to these tubes. Overall I recommend these tubes to those that like hip-hop and R&B. I think the dry texture does those categories well. But if you want more liquid sound
  try out some M8083's. I have yet found a tube that is so sonically pretty and inviting as the 8083.


----------



## roker

I've had this amp now for almost 2 years and I think I'm more than qualified to start voicing my complaints about it.
   
  1) The volume pot can feel a bit imprecise sometimes.  Now for the uninitiated this won't be a big problem, but over time, you really start yearning for a nice pot to turn to the exact volume level each particular song yearns for.  This should be effortless and intuitive, but sometimes I feel like I spend too much time with it because I tend to over/under throw it.
   
  2) Some distortion with bad recordings.  I feel that the hybrid design sometimes lends to a slightly grainy sound to those badly recorded songs from the old days or even some modern songs where they play too much with the loudness.  This is to be expected with this kind of design, but I think next time I'll go solid state all the way.  
   
  3) BLUE FREAKIN' LIGHT.  I seriously hate Sony for starting this stupid trend.  It's nice to see companies move to the less offensive "Apple" white light, but that doesn't help me with this current predicament.  It especially bothers me since I mostly listen to music at night.  I think I've mentioned my dislike for the blue light several times on here.  I wish I had some soldering skills, or at least someone who could guide me through a swap.  I'd change it faster than you could blink.
   
  That's about it.
   
  Now for the kicker:
   
  This is a very hard amp to replace.  I can't find a reasonably priced alternative.  The only amp I've seen so far that comes even a hair close is the Fiio E9, but even then from the descriptions of the sound, it might not be the alternative I had hoped for.  I might just wait it out and keep hoping something better or comparable comes around, but as it stands, even with it's flaws, it's still probably one of the best amps you can buy in the sub-100 price range.  The sound this amp produces seems to far exceed the price I paid for it.  Anything I throw at it, regardless of source, sounds so musical and lush, it leaves me more smitten as the days pass by.
   
  I'm sure eventually I'll replace it (probably in another price bracket), but when and if I do, I'll probably consider keeping this around as a spare.


----------



## richierich

Hey roker, what OPAMP & Tube combo are you using with your D2000s? I'm using LT1364 and stock 6JI tubes. Just got a couple of 6CQ6 tubes today and initial impressions show them to be very dark.


----------



## roker

I have an LT1364CN8 opamp
   
  and Mullard CV4010 tubes


----------



## richierich

lol just saw your post from a year ago mentioning this, sorry. Just ordered a couple of the CV4010s from ebay. Thanks roker!!
  Quote: 





roker said:


>


 


> I have an LT1364CN8 opamp
> 
> and Mullard CV4010 tubes


----------



## codeninja

Anyone with senns hd598, I'd like to know what tube you use for it.


----------



## mmayer167

^ i had the hd600 for a bit and used the mullard ef92 with BB 2107 op amp and liked it quite a bit.
   
  M


----------



## codeninja

I just got Little Dot I+ (LT1364 + WE408A) and have HD 598 paired with it.  Having to use M50 previously, I feel bass lacking abit. Hopefully, once the amp and HD 598 burned in, it'll improve.  Also, will try Mullard CV4140.


----------



## shipsupt

My LD hasn't been getting much love lately, so on a rainy afternoon I decided to roll something new in.  I also took the opportunity to change to the high gain setting as I want to see how the little guy handles the HE-5LE.  I am still using the 2107 op amp, out came the GE Jan 5654W's and in went a pair of Mullard EF-91's.  First listen with the HD-600's and I immediately noticed a strong lower end, but I also found things a little harsh up top... I expect that might settle down once I let them run for a few hours.


----------



## HeatFan12

Great pic ship, but 300ohm cans with this amp will produce shrill highs (not being driven properly).  Does not matter....ENJOY!!!!


----------



## shipsupt

heatfan12 said:


> Great pic ship, but 300ohm cans with this amp will produce shrill highs (not being driven properly).  Does not matter....ENJOY!!!!




Seems to be true... I tried again but couldn't get past the harsh highs. I swapped out for the HF-2's with some flats and had a great night listening. Stevie Ray is blowing my mind right now! Very clean and detailed with a nice low end that doesn't overpower. Such a cool little amp. 

Of course the high gain setting is complete overkill with the Grado's. I'll hold off on setting it back as I still want to give the HE's a spin this week.


----------



## HeatFan12

Sounds great.  When I first received the amp (over two years ago), I experimented with various headphones and gain.  Shortly thereafter I put it back to lo-gain and keep phones up to 75ohms plugged in.  It is a wonderful little amp that makes Grados and low impedance phones really shine..
   
  Cheers


----------



## detoxguy

I have had this little amp for the past month or so and just can't get enough of it paired with my RS2i's. I'm using the iBasso D12 as a standalone DAC and using optical from Macbook Pro and just falling in love with my music collection again. I've got the opa2107 and sylvainia GB408a gold pin tubes. Pretty happy.


----------



## shipsupt

So I've been able to spend a little time driving my HE-5LE's with the I+ and I'll say I find it capable. Surely there are those of the opinion that the only way to make the HE-X's sing is driving them with a seriously powerful amp or off some speaker taps.... And I certainly agree that my Woo is providing a much fuller sound than I am hearing from the LD, but set to high gain I am enjoying what I am hearing out of the little guy. No true A/B here, I'm using a Stello DAC ahead of the Woo and a Headroom Micro DAC ahead of the I+.

For someone looking for a very affordable amp (well under $100 used) to get started with some ortho's, say the HE4's or 5's, I think this little hybrid holds promise. I'd really be speculating to say the same for the 6's as they require even more to drive and I've only listened to them in a meet setting. 

Some time rolling in some tubes would likely find a pretty acceptable combo!


----------



## richierich

Ok finally got my CV4010s in today. Finally found some tubes I enjoy. The LT1364CN8 + Mullard CV4010 combo is really, really nice for most of the genres I listen to (Electronica, Rock, Rap, etc...). Thanks roker!!


----------



## shipsupt

Quote: 





richierich said:


> Ok finally got my CV4010s in today. Finally found some tubes I enjoy. The LT1364CN8 + Mullard CV4010 combo is really, really nice for most of the genres I listen to (Electronica, Rock, Rap, etc...). Thanks roker!!


 

 Care to comment on what is you like about the combo?  I'm interested as I am assuming you're combining with your D2000, I am a D7000 listener.
   
  You guys are making me think that the something in the EF95 family is the next place I should go with my rolling!
  
  I'm still chewing on the EF91's...  There are times I really like them, but others not so much.  They may be a little bright for me, I think I tend to lean towards something with a bit warmer, euphonic sound.  I am finding I enjoy the great detail of the EF91's.  I've heard that the 2107 is not the most detailed of the op amps, so it would be interesting to see just how they combine with one that is. 
   
  Further to my comments on driving the HE-5LE's, clearly the D7000's have better synergy with this amp.  I listened with this combo last night and it definitely was a better overall presentation.  I still plan to keep trying some tube/op amp combinations to really match up well with the HE-5's... as I said I think there is some potential here.


----------



## richierich

Yes, using this combo with my D2000s. I also enjoy warmer, euphonic sound and this combo delivers. I got my tubes from this seller: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270629165066&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
  Recieved them within 9 days, but that's because I'm in California. I'm sure you'll love the CV4010s, but make sure you order the LT1364CN8 samples from Linear Tech to go with CV4010s. They'll go great with your D7000s.
  Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Care to comment on what is you like about the combo?  I'm interested as I am assuming you're combining with your D2000, I am a D7000 listener.


----------



## shipsupt

richierich said:


> Yes, using this combo with my D2000s. I also enjoy warmer, euphonic sound and this combo delivers. I got my tubes from this seller: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270629165066&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
> Recieved them within 9 days, but that's because I'm in California. I'm sure you'll love the CV4010s, but make sure you order the LT1364CN8 samples from Linear Tech to go with CV4010s. They'll go great with your D7000s.




Got a pair on the way, thanks for the recommendation on the seller. I've got the 1364 here so I can try that combo.


----------



## roker

Quote: 





richierich said:


> Ok finally got my CV4010s in today. Finally found some tubes I enjoy. The LT1364CN8 + Mullard CV4010 combo is really, really nice for most of the genres I listen to (Electronica, Rock, Rap, etc...). Thanks roker!!


 


  Good thing we listen to the same things!
   
  But yeah, it's going to be hard to replace this amp in the future (if ever).


----------



## shipsupt

Quote: 





roker said:


> Good thing we listen to the same things!
> 
> But yeah, it's going to be hard to replace this amp in the future (if ever).


 

 +1
  Even with the addition of my Woo I have not even considered getting rid of my I+.  Yes, it has been replaced in my number one rig, but I can't see myself wanting to sell it off anytime soon, if at all.  If for no other reason it's small enough to take into work and have some sweet tube sound there.  It also gets some duty at an alternative listening location at home.


----------



## Grado77

-----------------------


----------



## shipsupt

detoxguy said:


> I have had this little amp for the past month or so and just can't get enough of it paired with my RS2i's. I'm using the iBasso D12 as a standalone DAC and using optical from Macbook Pro and just falling in love with my music collection again. I've got the opa2107 and sylvainia GB408a gold pin tubes. Pretty happy.




I finally rolled in a pair of GB 408a gold pins. I have hesitated for a while because many gave them rave reviews while others were calling it FOTM. I wanted to hear some other tubes first. I'm still running the 2107, so a change in op amp is due...

For me the gold pins live up to the hype, at least on an overall musical signature. I'm not a/b'ing anything, but from memory I am finding the best balance I've heard. They may not have the strongest bass or the clearest details, but seem to perform well from top to bottom. For reference, my listening today has been with the Denon d7k's and the low gain setting.

I could leave these tubes in and be pretty happy.... But of course that would be no fun! Besides, I've got a pair of cv4010's to pick up at the post office tomorrow!

Anyone ever see any Amperex 6AK5W's out there for sale? I never seem to run across them, but have wanted to give them a try. 

I also picked up another DAC (DacMagic) that I plan to set up where I keep the LD, so I'm looking forward to seeing what changes that brings.

It's been quiet out here in LD I+ land... Everyone must be busy listening!


----------



## Faulkick

Quote: 





faulkick said:


> Hello all once again, I forgot all about my posting in this thread, however I am now getting onto all of this.
> 
> I am about to order a set of tubes however I obviously want to make sure that I order something which I can use.
> 
> ...


 
  Hey people, sorry to bump this question once again.
   
  I received the tubes which I ordered today - hooray! And I chucked them in, and opened up the amp to make sure all settings were correct, however in the post which I quoted from Cristox - he only mentions J1 and J2, however there is also J3 and J4, are these latter two meant to always be covered? Or am I meant to take the jumper covers off of J3 and J4 and place them on J1 and J2? (Or when using the EF92 settings, am I meant to have all four covered?
   
  Thanks a lot for all the help, this forum has been great.


----------



## shipsupt

All of this should be confirmed with your manual:
   
  K1 and K2 must be used for tube selection.  Depending on your unit, this may be small switches or jumper covers to move.
   
  J1 and J2 must also be configured for tubes, either jumped or open depending on the tube you select.
   
  J3 and J4 are only used to select the gain.  They can be either open or closed and have no effect on the tube selection.
   
  For an EF92 you want the following:
  Set both K1/K2 switches (or jumpers) to the side marked 6JI on the circuit board.
  Place jumper caps onto jumpers J1 and J2
   
  Your choice to jump J3 and J4 only depends on how you want to set the gain.
   
  If you are wanting to short J3 and J4 (low gain), and you don't have enough jumpers (spares are delivered with the amp in a little bag) then you can get additional jumpers at most electronic/computer stores, they are standard fair.
   
  Let me know if that helps.

  Quote: 





faulkick said:


> Hey people, sorry to bump this question once again.
> 
> I received the tubes which I ordered today - hooray! And I chucked them in, and opened up the amp to make sure all settings were correct, however in the post which I quoted from Cristox - he only mentions J1 and J2, however there is also J3 and J4, are these latter two meant to always be covered? Or am I meant to take the jumper covers off of J3 and J4 and place them on J1 and J2? (Or when using the EF92 settings, am I meant to have all four covered?
> 
> Thanks a lot for all the help, this forum has been great.


----------



## Faulkick

Yea, that is exactly what I was wondering, thanks a lot! I only have two jumpers and while I have ordered a pack of them off ebay I am impatient! Haha.
   
  Also, when I bought the amp I was quite a noob, and I either threw out all the packaging along with the manual, have misplaced it, or I bought the amp second hand and did not get a manual (it was a while ago and I am unable to remember).
   
  Thanks a lot for the help.


----------



## shipsupt

Cool!  Enjoy that amp, and let us know what you think of it!


----------



## mmayer167

Thought id post and keep the fun thread alive. Currently enjoying a delicious locally brewed IPA and rolling through my tubes and op amps. Great night in...by myself lol   Tubes im rolling are mullard ef92 and ef91 WE408a non gold pin and the stock 6j1. im experimenting with how the stock op and bb2107 pair with the tubes and deciding on a new favorite with the thunderpants
 cheers, M


----------



## shipsupt

mmayer167 said:


> Thought id post and keep the fun thread alive. Currently enjoying a delicious locally brewed IPA and rolling through my tubes and op amps. Great night in...by myself lol   Tubes im rolling are mullard ef92 and ef91 WE408a non gold pin and the stock 6j1. im experimenting with how the stock op and bb2107 pair with the tubes and deciding on a new favorite with the thunderpants
> cheers, M




I'd be interested to see what you think of those tubes with the stock op amp... Once I put in the 2107 I havn't gone back to compare.

I've got the 4010's in now but haven't given them much listening time yet... I changed DAC's which is throwing a new variable in the mix so my baseline is sort of reset as well.


----------



## mmayer167

^ I ended up with the 408a and stock op. The 2107 is just too dark with the thunderpants, but i could see how its nice with grados or phones of that nature. Yea you really have to set out a plan and stick to it when trying new stuff otherwise you just get confused haha.   M


----------



## shipsupt

I struggled last night with some "noise", something that at first sounded like a little crackling.  I was thinking it was the new tubes so I started to isolate by shutting down upstream components.  The noise was still in the line after shutting down the DAC, but what I noticed is that that it was very rythmic and not random.  I started to suspect outside RF interference of some kind and remembered that I had also reorganized equipment, which unfortunately in this location includes a modem, a wireless router, a micro-cell tower, and a wireless phone.  By moving the LD only a few inches from it's current location the noice was eliminated.  Time to re-organize!
   
  @mmayer167: After listengint to the 408a with the 2107 I'm not surprised that you found it a bit dark, or maybe overly warm.  The combo defintely was biased in that direction to my ears.  You've got me interested to see what a different op-amp will do with them.  I think I've been too focused on what the tubes will do, but I do remember reading that some felt that the op-amp had more impact on sound than tube rolling.  I've been hesitent to drop in the 1364 with the talk of DC offset, but after all this time I've not heard of anyone having issues, and I know there are some that have run the 1364 for a long time now.  Maybe the 4562.... not sure which of the two would brighten things up more?


----------



## mmayer167

yea switching op amps makes a large difference. Im gonna claim ignorant bliss and leave it stock with the 408a's   M


----------



## ronnie89

Hi guys, can anyone recommend me which pair of tubes would tame the shrills on my grado 325is without breaking the bank?
   
  i've been looking around ebay and i found northern electric 408a, westinghouse 408a, and phillips jan 6028 available. there's the we 408a too but its kinda expensive, is it really more superior than the others? (and would it be good for the 325is) i would like to settle for just a pair so i want the best for my setup 
   
  onboard --> littledot1+ --> 325is
   
  thanks guys


----------



## shipsupt

Quote: 





ronnie89 said:


> Hi guys, can anyone recommend me which pair of tubes would tame the shrills on my grado 325is without breaking the bank?
> 
> i've been looking around ebay and i found northern electric 408a, westinghouse 408a, and phillips jan 6028 available. there's the we 408a too but its kinda expensive, is it really more superior than the others? (and would it be good for the 325is) i would like to settle for just a pair so i want the best for my setup
> 
> ...


 


  I don't think any tube is superior, but there is certainly a fan club for some of the 408's, especially the gold brand with gold pins.
   
  Have you considered rolling in a new op-amp?  I find the 2107 a bit smoother and it might help if you are finding the 325's a bit harsh.  They are pretty inexpensive.


----------



## mmayer167

id second the Burr brown 2107, it should do what you are looking for... M


----------



## rezolver

I third the OPA2107 and the tubes I've paired it with were the Westinghouse m8083's, but any EF91/m8083 tube would suffice. That's the setup I've settled on for the past month with my SR325's, atleast until more op-amps arrive.
  I listen to mainly Rock and Industrial, although I will say Diana Krall sounded pretty damn sexy with that setup.
   
  My next test will be the LME49720HA + Sylvania Gold Pin 408A's.
  
  Quote: 





ronnie89 said:


> Hi guys, can anyone recommend me which pair of tubes would tame the shrills on my grado 325is without breaking the bank?
> 
> i've been looking around ebay and i found northern electric 408a, westinghouse 408a, and phillips jan 6028 available. there's the we 408a too but its kinda expensive, is it really more superior than the others? (and would it be good for the 325is) i would like to settle for just a pair so i want the best for my setup
> 
> ...


----------



## Grado77

------------------


----------



## stratocaster

Just bought a LD 1+. Sounds awsome with my grados. Now I would like to go for some tube rolling. As I do not want to order from this and that ebay site, I was just asking myself if there was anyone who has a nice range of tubes and would like to sell me some they would like to recommend.
  I have already ordered a BB OPA2107.
  I am based in central Europe.


----------



## shipsupt

You might consider ordering from one of the many web sites that specialize in tubes. If you search head-Fi you can find many recommendations for good sources that give fair prices. I use http://www.vacuumtubesinc.com/ and have been very happy with the prices, shipping etc... If you pick a few tubes you are interested in you can email them to see if they have them in stock or can get them.

I just caught your location, so a US site is likely not much help, but I know there are plenty of Eurpean options... Maybe google will help too...


----------



## codeninja

Uk eBay seller yitry seemed good, or least better than individual seller or little dot which their tubes died in a week with no warranty. My tubes arrived with pin covers when I ordered from yitry.


----------



## rezolver

Has anyone tried the AD797 opamp in the Little Dot I+? 

If so, what are your thoughts?


----------



## shipsupt

I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that the AD797 is a single op-amp, so if it can be used you'd need to use two of them on an adapter. 
   
  Early in the thread there were some folks talking about trying some single amps but I don't recall seeing much in the way of results/impressions.


----------



## ronnie89

@shipsupt, mmayer, and rezolver, thank you so much for your recommendation.
   
  i installed the op2107 with we408as and i don't experience the harshness anymore!
   
   
  the op2107, lm4562, and lt1364 opamps along with my mullard, cossor, and emitron ef91s and we408as arrived today. I've been having lots of fun trying out the different setups.
   
  im also expecting my telefunken, rca, raytheon, tungsram and other 'ef95s' to come soon!
   
  I still don't think im getting the detail i think i should be getting though. i guess it could be possible that my setup is hopelessly bottlenecked by my lack of a soundcard
   
  ALAC on iphone -->  LD1+ (op2107+we408a) --> sr325is
  &
  ALAC on itunes on realtek hd onbard --> LD1+(op2107+we408a) --> sr325is
   
  hmm, if i get the new 2009 zero dac with op627, will it be pretty much a night and day experience? or would the difference be barely noticeable?
   
   
  -ps if anyone needs an impression on opamp/tube combos, i'll be glad to help  (i'll be doing a more comprehensive opamp/tube review once i get a new dac though)


----------



## Mampus

Hey, another LD 1+ user here! 
   
  I just ordered matched pair of square getter Mullard EF92, year 1957 and OPA2111KP, wonder how it sing with my Beyer DT880/600 2005


----------



## shipsupt

mampus said:


> Hey, another LD 1+ user here!
> 
> I just ordered matched pair of square getter Mullard EF92, year 1957 and OPA2111KP, wonder how it sing with my Beyer DT880/600 2005




2111KP? I haven't heard about that op amp, I'll be interested to hear your impressions!


----------



## Kukuk

Does anyone use a K601 with the Little Dot I+?
   
  That's what I'm using now, and after putting some significant time on this combo, I'm finding a couple of faults with it. The biggest one for me being the mids are a bit shouty, particularly with female vocals. It's really starting to bother me, as I've really been enjoying female singers as of late.
   
  The other problem I'm having is a weird soundstage. It's really not very big, but it extends outward from my ears, too far it seems. This wouldn't really bother me if it extended forward, as to give it a little consistency, but it doesn't.
   
  If I wanted to smooth out the mid range, what would be more worthwhile: upgrading the tubes, or upgrading the OP-amp? Any suggestions on a specific upgrade? (proving a link would be awesome, as I have a lot of trouble finding this stuff!) If there's no possible upgrade that could hammer out the soundstage and the mid range, then just fixing the mid range takes priority.
   
  Oh, and right now I'm just using stock OP-amp and stock tubes.


----------



## LugBug1

Just my LD I+ yesterday and I'm loving the sound already! I'm using new Mullard EF92's and they seem to be warmer and more Grado friendly than the upgraded stock EF92's that it came with.
   
  I've ordered some Mullard EF95 6AK5 1970's, has anyone used these? are they any good?
   
  Also, is it worth changing the opamp at this stage, I've read that the 2107 has a warmer sound? Not sure If I would want warmer than it already is. Is there other big sound differences with opamp changing?
   
  Thanks for any help, I'm new to this rolling buisness


----------



## mmayer167

yes i think the op makes more of a diff than tubes. the 2107 is a warm sort of energetic op and supposedly pairs well with grados. I liked it with the stock tubes on my thunderpants. also ops are cheaper than tubes most of the time. M


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





mmayer167 said:


> yes i think the op makes more of a diff than tubes. the 2107 is a warm sort of energetic op and supposedly pairs well with grados. I liked it with the stock tubes on my thunderpants. also ops are cheaper than tubes most of the time. M


 


 Thanks. I've already put an order in for an opa2107 I'll give it a go for starters!


----------



## REDH0RN

Quote: 





kukuk said:


> Does anyone use a K601 with the Little Dot I+?
> 
> I'm finding a couple of faults with it. The biggest one for me being the mids are a bit shouty, particularly with female vocals. It's really starting to bother me, as I've really been enjoying female singers as of late.
> 
> ...


----------



## rbf1138

Is there a consensus on what to use with Grado 325i or RS2?


----------



## LugBug1

I've read half of this thread and it has been a huuuge help! Sorry if this is all old news..
   
  I'm currently running some old mullard ef91's with the LT1364cn8 and I'm enjoying it immensely. The opamp is very smooth through the whole frequency range without removing any of my Grado's character, It has removed the slight "tinniness" in the upper register of the stock. Instruments are more defined.
   
  The EF91's are more earthy sounding than the 92's and are more open. I would say that the ef92's are more refined though.


----------



## shipsupt

lugbug1 said:


> I've read half of this thread and it has been a huuuge help! Sorry if this is all old news..
> 
> I'm currently running some old mullard ef91's with the LT1364cn8 and I'm enjoying it immensely. The opamp is very smooth through the whole frequency range without removing any of my Grado's character, It has removed the slight "tinniness" in the upper register of the stock. Instruments are more defined.
> 
> The EF91's are more earthy sounding than the 92's and are more open. I would say that the ef92's are more refined though.




Just curious, I see in your signature that your LD I+ is modded? What's been done to it?


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 opamp changed... probly not classed as modded on here? haha


----------



## shipsupt

lugbug1 said:


> opamp changed... probly not classed as modded on here? haha




Probably not, but who cares, as long as you are rolling and enjoying! As you go through this thread you'll find a few guys who did some minor mods, which was why I was curious.

Enjoy those Mullards!


----------



## GotNoRice

It's been a while now since I really rolled anything.  I had settled on the Sylvania Gold-Pin 408A tubes and LM4562 OpAmp.  That combo, with the increased quality gold pin tubes and the extremely low THD OpAmp seemed to reveal details in the music that were simply lost with other combinations.
   
  Other than that my 2nd favorite combo is probably the 2107 with either Mullard EF91 tubes or Mullard CV4015/M8161 tubes (these have a very similar sound to my ears).  This seems to give more bass and more warmth to the sound at the expense of some clarity compared to my preferred combo.
   
  Generally speaking, I have not had many EF95 tubes that I've liked.  I have a pair of russian EF95s, one pair of GE 6AK5Ws from 68', one pair of GE 6AK5Ws from 78', a pair of Sylvania 6AK5Ws from 66', and of course the stock chinese tubes.  It's not that they sound bad, but I just always find myself preferring to go back to tubes either from the EF91/92 family or one of the 408As.
   
  One thing I have not really played around with much is going back to the stock OpAmp.  I know there are some who still really like the stock OpAmp, and i'm not sure if I ever really gave it a chance since I already had other OpAmps to roll in since before the amp even arrived.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





gotnorice said:


> It's been a while now since I really rolled anything.  I had settled on the Sylvania Gold-Pin 408A tubes and* LM4562 OpAmp*.  That combo, with the increased quality gold pin tubes and the extremely low THD OpAmp seemed to reveal details in the music that were simply lost with other combinations.
> 
> Other than that my 2nd favorite combo is probably the 2107 with either Mullard EF91 tubes or Mullard CV4015/M8161 tubes (these have a very similar sound to my ears).  This seems to give more bass and more warmth to the sound at the expense of some clarity compared to my preferred combo.
> 
> ...


 


 I'm really enjoying the LM4562 OpAmp today (I've ordered all the popular ones and am trying them out day by day). I think it is better than the LT1364cn8, it seemed to be a bit too smooth for my liking after about 4 hours burn in.
   
  Time will tell though, still haven't received the 2107 from china. It may be because I use this amp amp solely with Gr ado's that I can't see myself going back to the stock opamp. The transistor harsh sounding treble has been removed by both the opamps that I have replaced it with.


----------



## rbf1138

As my first combo to my (just ordered Little Dot 1+) to be used with Grado RS-2i's, how does this look:
   
   
  http://www.audiophileproducts.com/opamps    (for the opamp LM4562)
   
  http://cgi.ebay.com/EF92-MULLARD-TUBE-NOS-/200535187608?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2eb0d42098#ht_1986wt_1141
   
  I'm also wondering where to buy the following, also for the LD1+:
  sylvainia GB408a gold pin tubes
  opa2107
   
   
   
  Any other suggestions on tubes/opamps that may go well and provide different flavors would be excellent.


----------



## shipsupt

I order my opamps from www.newark.com
   
  You can try some of the usual suspects to see if they have the GE408a gold pins in stock, tubedepot, vacuum tubes Inc., etc... but so far I've managed to build up my stock by just being patient with watching e-bay.  And don't get too worried that these are the end all tubes for the LD I+, there are other great combinations.

  
  Quote: 





rbf1138 said:


> As my first combo to my (just ordered Little Dot 1+) to be used with Grado RS-2i's, how does this look:
> 
> 
> http://www.audiophileproducts.com/opamps    (for the opamp LM4562)
> ...


----------



## LugBug1

I'm now trying the opa2107 and this is going to be the keeper for me! warmth with big soundstage, all hardness removed from top. Goes well with mullard 8083 ef91's., but maybe a bit too warm with mullard ef92's.
   
  Right. Thats me happy... untill next payday


----------



## shipsupt

Anyone tried the the Hytron 6AK5 in the Little Dot I+?


----------



## Aynjell

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> I'm now trying the opa2107 and this is going to be the keeper for me! warmth with big soundstage, all hardness removed from top. Goes well with mullard 8083 ef91's., but maybe a bit too warm with mullard ef92's.
> 
> Right. Thats me happy... untill next payday


 
   
  The OPA2107 should have been the stock op amp, but that said, the stock is like a slightly worse opa2107. There's a LOT of synergy with the stock tubes, by the way.


----------



## rbf1138

http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/opa2107.html#samples
   
  Can someone tell me which of those I should get a sample of for the LD? I'm so confused!!
   
  Or, I could just order this
  http://cgi.ebay.com/Burr-Brown-OPA2107-precision-dual-difet-op-amp-ic-dip-/260655044299?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cb04056cb#ht_672wt_1141


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





aynjell said:


> The OPA2107 should have been the stock op amp, but that said, the stock is like a slightly worse opa2107. There's a LOT of synergy with the stock tubes, by the way.


 


 I agree with that. The stock has great bass weight and is good with mids, but it is the treble where it didn't work for me. As soon as any brass came into a recording I could feel my face doing something very strange. (have you ever seen a bulldog sniffing wee off a nettle? ha ha)  Very hard and sometimes harsh.
   
  My LD came with the ef92 upgrade so havent tried the 6J1's and family yet, but I have got some Mullard EF95's on the way so that will be my starter for ten.


----------



## shipsupt

You want the AP or the APG4, not any of the AU models (they have pins made to be soldered in place).
   
  The e-bay option is fine too, but if you can get a sample... why not!
   
   


  
  Quote: 





rbf1138 said:


> http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/opa2107.html#samples
> 
> Can someone tell me which of those I should get a sample of for the LD? I'm so confused!!
> 
> ...


----------



## rbf1138

Oh lord, I just got my LD and I'm listening with my RS-2i's and I'm in heaven. This is with stock opamp/tubes. I ordered the opa2107 today, now to choose some tubes...Seriously, this feels like I'm hearing for the first time. I should add I'm coming from a MBP>uDAC>LD1+. Solid, clean bass, a nice sparkle up top, no harshness, so airy and effortless. This is a revelation.


----------



## rbf1138

Ok, small issue. When there's no sound, I'm hearing a very faint "tick, tick" (more like a squeak) kind of high in pitch. I don't hear it when I plug any of my phones direct into the udac, so it must be the LD. It's also only in the right channel. Is that something to do with grounding, perhaps? Even with the volume knob all the way down at its lowest position I hear it. What's a good way to clean the tubes, apparently that could be causing the staticy noise I hear.


----------



## shipsupt

There are some chemicals you can use to clean tube pins, I'd recommend Deoxit. You can also clean them up with emry, sand paper, or what I would recommend steel wool. Just be sure you don't leave any steel wool threads behind that could create a short between pins when you reinsert the tube.

I'd also move your amp around and make sure it's not interference. I find that my I+ picks up quite a bit of interference unless I find the right spot for it.


----------



## rbf1138

If I'm going Macbook > nuforce uDAC > LD1+, what would be the best thing to improve the setup? Maybe a better DAC?


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





rbf1138 said:


> Ok, small issue. When there's no sound, I'm hearing a very faint "tick, tick" (more like a squeak) kind of high in pitch. I don't hear it when I plug any of my phones direct into the udac, so it must be the LD. It's also only in the right channel. Is that something to do with grounding, perhaps? Even with the volume knob all the way down at its lowest position I hear it. What's a good way to clean the tubes, apparently that could be causing the staticy noise I hear.


 


 Congrats my friend! My advise now would be to experiment with the 3 different tube families, eveyones taste is different, plus It's more fun discovering the different combinations yourself rather than asking what the best is, as it may not be the best for you. I think you've a very good opamp (2107), I've just discovered that myself.
   
  Regarding the strange sound you are hearing; Tubes have a habit of making noises every now and again.. this is completely normal. Noises will come and go, but not to the distraction of the music generally. Just follow the advise of cleaning the pins or even swapping them round can eradicate this. New tubes take time to settle down so a little bit of patience is needed.


----------



## rbf1138

Thanks! I ordered the LM4562 and the 2107, and now I'm trying to figure out the correct tube types that go with this amp. The noise is a distraction when the music is quiet or silent, and is especially bad with my IEMs.
  
  Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Congrats my friend! My advise now would be to experiment with the 3 different tube families, eveyones taste is different, plus It's more fun discovering the different combinations yourself rather than asking what the best is, as it may not be the best for you. I think you've a very good opamp (2107), I've just discovered that myself.
> 
> Regarding the strange sound you are hearing; Tubes have a habit of making noises every now and again.. this is completely normal. Noises will come and go, but not to the distraction of the music generally. Just follow the advise of cleaning the pins or even swapping them round can eradicate this. New tubes take time to settle down so a little bit of patience is needed.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





rbf1138 said:


> Thanks! I ordered the LM4562 and the 2107, and now I'm trying to figure out the correct tube types that go with this amp. The noise is a distraction when the music is quiet or silent, and is especially bad with my IEMs.


 

 I think you will definately get noise with IEM's that is the same with all full size amps. It will be too powerful for them. But regarding ful size hp's, I'm sure the noise will dissapate with different tubes and opamps. Also, if you have your amp near something that is picking up RF signals then it could be that. Try moving it around. Mine picks up mobile phone interference every now and again.


----------



## henree

Been happy with the m8083 and opa 2107. But I still want more bass. Any other tubes I should try?


----------



## shipsupt

henree said:


> Been happy with the m8083 and opa 2107. But I still want more bass. Any other tubes I should try?




Have you tried the Amperex 6AK5W? They seem to be reported as the bass kings on the LD I+. I just got a set, so I can't confirm yet.


----------



## rbf1138

Just received my OPA2107. Could someone explain precisely how to install this correctly? 
   
  Edit: ok, got it in. 
   
  I feel like if anything it sounds more harsh than the stock opamp? Less warm, rougher treble.


----------



## shipsupt

rbf1138 said:


> Just received my OPA2107. Could someone explain precisely how to install this correctly?
> 
> Edit: ok, got it in.
> 
> I feel like if anything it sounds more harsh than the stock opamp? Less warm, rougher treble.




Interesting. I find the 2107 pretty warm compared to stock. When you say the treble is rough, are you meaning grainy?

What tubes are you using with it?


----------



## rbf1138

Stock tubes. Yeah, a bit grainy, a little less pleasing. Not as much air and warmth.
  Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## john57

Make sure you have not bend any pins while putiing in the socket. It happens sometime you will fold the pin undertheath the chip. You also have line up the the dot on the chip with the socket mark?


----------



## LugBug1

Make sure the little ) is facing the front of the amp. Strange, I've tried the 3 most popular opamps as well as stock and the 2107 is defo the warmest! deepest soundstage too.
   
  Havent tried it with stock tubes though


----------



## rbf1138

Would not having put the clamps down on either side have made a difference? I did that and it seems better now. But i thought that was just to secure it, not a connection.


----------



## shipsupt

lugbug1 said:


> Make sure the little ) is facing the front of the amp. Strange, I've tried the 3 most popular opamps as well as stock and the 2107 is defo the warmest! deepest soundstage too.
> 
> Havent tried it with stock tubes though




X2^
 I had the same thought late last night, it is directional. Not sure what the result would be if it was put in backwards. 

As for the clamps, my version doesn't have them, but if they are there I'd use them. I would think they are only to secure it.


----------



## rbf1138

Definitely had in the right way, and all legs in place. After using some deoxit on the tubes (stock) and a/b'ing with the opamps, I still prefer the stock. And yet, something seems off. It's not quite as full and warm as it was when I was first using it. What sorts of things should I try here? Could I have done something in removing/swapping anything?
   
  This is the opamp I bought:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260655044299&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_680wt_1119
   
  Also bought these but haven't got them yet: http://cgi.ebay.com/Vacuum-Tubes-6028-408A-JAN-PHILIPS-5-PC-NIB-/330563397291?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4cf71d26ab#ht_1481wt_885
   
  And are these the good Mullards everyone talks about?
   
http://cgi.ebay.com/CV4015-M8161-EF92-9D6-MULLARD-QDD-TUBE-VALVE-NOS-E-PAIR-/390210592843?pt=UK_Consumer_VintageAudio_RL&hash=item5ada5d204b#shId


----------



## REDH0RN

Mine came from here; http://cgi.ebay.com/OPA2107-dual-Low-Noise-Difet-Precision-OpAmp-DIP-8-x2-/170632916927?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27ba83afbf#ht_2510wt_967
   
  Noticed sound improvement immediately.


----------



## rbf1138

Thanks...just ordered one, figure can't hurt to try a different one out.


----------



## shipsupt

Seems hard to believe you got a bad one, but I do recall at least one post early in this thread when someone felt they had a bad opamp.  I guess it can't hurt to rule it out.  It also seems pretty difficult to have induced a problem, but again not impossible.
   
  There was one guy early on in this thread who found his transformer was set to 220V, so he was having many issues before he narrowed that to be the problem... seems like a reach, but it wasn't until he started rolling op-amps that he noticed it.  He was amazed that it sounded pretty good with the wrong voltage setting, but was amazed at how good it was when he got it right.
   
  Those 408A's you got should be solid performers.  Some folks prefer them to many other tubes.  I've not given them much time in my amp, but I ran one set for a while and was, as I recall, pretty happy with the sound.
   
  Those Mullard's are well thought of, but I'd think you could track them down cheaper either by waiting on some appearing on ebay or by emailing a few tube sellers to see if they have them. 
   
  It interesting to hear that you are hearing a difference now in your stock op-amp.  Makes me think there might be something else going on... but what I can't quite put my finger on.  Certainly it will be good to try another set of tubes just to rule that out as an issue.  I assume you are trying a few of your headphones and noticing the same thing no matter which you choose? 
   
  For the sake of good order, have you checked all the jumper/switch settings to be sure they are all correct?  Both for tubes and gain?
   
  Sorry not to really offer much help!!  Hopefully you'll narrow it down by carefully ruling things out.


----------



## john57

I would recheck everthing and make sure the jumpers(tiny black clips)  are fully in place. It does seems that maybe something was amiss while you were changing the opamps. The first site you got was the TEXAS INSTRUMENTS stamp and the other site has the BB stamp.  Texas Instruments brought out BURR BROWN  some time ago.


----------



## LugBug1

Enjoying some matched Mullard EF95's. Very warm but detailed, probably the most tubey sound I've got yet. Goes well with op2107 if you are after more warmth with Grado's.


----------



## rbf1138

http://cgi.ebay.com/2x-NOS-MULLARD-CV4010-VALVE-EF95-M8100-6AK5-5654-Tubes-/290546585784?_trksid=p4340.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D10%26pmod%3D270629165066%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D114784003466167872#ht_2102wt_907
   
  Those should be good, right?
   
  I got the new OPA2107, but it still feels like the treble is real harsh, especially compared to what it had been when i first got the amp. I cant decide if it's just my memory is off or what.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





rbf1138 said:


> http://cgi.ebay.com/2x-NOS-MULLARD-CV4010-VALVE-EF95-M8100-6AK5-5654-Tubes-/290546585784?_trksid=p4340.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D10%26pmod%3D270629165066%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D114784003466167872#ht_2102wt_907
> 
> Those should be good, right?
> 
> I got the new OPA2107, but it still feels like the treble is real harsh, especially compared to what it had been when i first got the amp. I cant decide if it's just my memory is off or what.


 


 Yeah they'll be good. You might want to try the *LT1364* opamp as I found this one to be very smooth, It might take the edge off the treble for you.


----------



## LugBug1

Don't wanna go on too much about my new EF95's.... but I'm going to 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  They are even better today after a bit of a burn in. These are the first tubes that I've heard a big difference with after few days. In comparison to the EF91's that seem to sound very right... The 95's bring something extra, less refined but more punchy and enjoyable. Great for Jazz.


----------



## rbf1138

LugBug, which Grado's you using? I ordered EF95s and the* *LT1364, but also have the 2107, so I can tell you more thoughts soon, using RS-2i's.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





rbf1138 said:


> LugBug, which Grado's you using? I ordered EF95s and the* *LT1364, but also have the 2107, so I can tell you more thoughts soon, using RS-2i's.


 


 I use RS1i's, but to be fair all Grado's have a similar sound character. So it shouldn't make a HUGE difference which model you are using with the LD. Try the EF95's with the LT1364 and see how that goes.  
   
  Keep us informed my friend, but don't expect too much. Just try and enjoy the Grado sound signature. It's unique!!


----------



## honmashinsei

Is anyone able to summarize what the best opamp/tube combo's are for the Little Dot I+? I might get this once and would like to know what the best ones are without having to re-read the 75 pages of replies.
   
  I have Alessandro's MS-1i's, FA DBA-02's and will be buying Denon D2000 or an comparable closed headphone in a while.
   
  Would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!


----------



## honmashinsei

Quote: 





okthxbye said:


> Thanks Thran.
> 
> Another question: I mostly listen to my music for short periods (less than 1, or between 1 and 2 hours). How long do the amp and/or the tubes take to "warm up"? Is it smart to choose for the LD I+ when I mostly have short listening sessions?


 

 Anyone able to answer this? Thanks!


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





okthxbye said:


> Is anyone able to summarize what the best opamp/tube combo's are for the Little Dot I+? I might get this once and would like to know what the best ones are without having to re-read the 75 pages of replies.
> 
> I have Alessandro's MS-1i's, FA DBA-02's and will be buying Denon D2000 or an comparable closed headphone in a while.
> 
> Would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!


 


 I think the general consensus for best opamp with Grado's is the op2107. There is also the LT1364 for a more natural sound. I would try the LD with stock 6J1 tubes to begin with and then go for some Mullard EF95's that can replace the 6j1's. Then with jumber settings changed try the EF91's and EF92's all Mullards. The Western or Sylvania 408a's are popular too but more expensive and hard to find.
   
  The amp doesnt need much warming up at all. Enjoy!


----------



## shipsupt

Putting aside SQ, most would recommend warm up, you can start listening pretty much straight away. The only real down side to shutting down quickly, say short of an hour or so, would be for tube life... Starting up and shutting down are the events that stress the tubes the most.


----------



## honmashinsei

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> I think the general consensus for best opamp with Grado's is the op2107. There is also the LT1364 for a more natural sound. I would try the LD with stock 6J1 tubes to begin with and then go for some Mullard EF95's that can replace the 6j1's. Then with jumber settings changed try the EF91's and EF92's all Mullards. The Western or Sylvania 408a's are popular too but more expensive and hard to find.
> 
> The amp doesnt need much warming up at all. Enjoy!


 


  Thanks for your reply. What about the M8083, I've read some about that a while ago in this thread. What soundsignature does that give with the OP2107?
   
  If I've listened to music for like an hour, would it be better to keep the amp on for a while (like 1 hour or more) or is it safe to turn them off again that quickly? What would be better for tube life?


----------



## shipsupt

@okthxbye - See my post directly before yours about tube life...  There are no set rules on how long you need to run.  If you've been listening for an hour or so it will OK to shut down unless you plan to listen again soon, then you might consider leaving it powered up to avoid another on/off cycle (and you aren't going to leave it unattended or running be more than say  8 hours straight).


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





okthxbye said:


> Thanks for your reply. What about the M8083, I've read some about that a while ago in this thread. What soundsignature does that give with the OP2107?
> 
> If I've listened to music for like an hour, would it be better to keep the amp on for a while (like 1 hour or more) or is it safe to turn them off again that quickly? What would be better for tube life?


 


 The m8083 is the EF91.  It has good extension at both ends and is an exciting sounding tube. Pairing it with the warm op2107 is ideal IMO, good synergy.
   
  Yeah, as shipsupt pointed out try to avoid switching on/off and back on again in a short period of time. If you are only going to be listening for an hour and thats it for the night, then just switch it off. Also, If I want to change tubes I always do it before a listening session, rather than changing after half an hour or so. If you do need to change anything, switch it off and wait about half an hour for the amp to completely cool down and discharge before operating (sounds very clinical!)
   
  It is recommended that for every 8 hours playing, have 1 hour cool down time. This is just in general aswell.


----------



## Aynjell

I've disregarded those rules for the most part, simply waiting for  the tubes to cool down before I do anything. Realistically, the internals of the amp shouldn't have a tempurature problem, it's just the tubes.
   
  In my usage, if I can keep my fingers on the tubes long enough to pull them out, I feel they're ready to come out. HOWEVER, what lugbug posted is what is suggested in the manual, just saying it's not the law of the land and you likely won't fry your amp if you fail to follow the rules just once.


----------



## cruizin caleb

I just purchased some new bowls as well as some TTVJ flat pads for my Grado RS-1s. its summer and I'm interesting in trying a different (not nessesarily 'better') sound. would rather play with my Grados - which i love - instead of buy new headphones. I'm currently using Mullard EF91 tubes and the stock opamp.
   
   
   
   

  what affects the sound more? the opamp or the tubes?
   
  i'm interested in juicing up my RS-1's bass/deep-midrange (which is why i decided to buy the flat pads.) 
   
  what opamp / tube combo would do this?
   
  EDIT: i was reading some posts in this thread and ended up buying a OPA2107.
  it also seems as if the Mullard EF91 (which I have) are already one of the warmer tubes?
  and I have no idea what to do as far as swapping in/out the opamp. is there a good 'guide' anywhere?


----------



## shipsupt

Quote: 





cruizin caleb said:


> I just purchased some new bowls as well as some TTVJ flat pads for my Grado RS-1s. its summer and I'm interesting in trying a different (not nessesarily 'better') sound. would rather play with my Grados - which i love - instead of buy new headphones. I'm currently using Mullard EF91 tubes and the stock opamp.


 
   
  what affects the sound more? the opamp or the tubes?
   
  i'm interested in juicing up my RS-1's bass/deep-midrange (which is why i decided to buy the flat pads.) 
   
  what opamp / tube combo would do this?
   
  EDIT: i was reading some posts in this thread and ended up buying a OPA2107.
  it also seems as if the Mullard EF91 (which I have) are already one of the warmer tubes?
  and I have no idea what to do as far as swapping in/out the opamp. is there a good 'guide' anywhere?
   
   
   
   
  There were some early post in this thread that had posters indicating that they thought the opamp had a bigger impact.  I'm not sure I've noticed the same, but it might be because I roll tubes tubes more often than opamps.
   
  The opamp swap is pretty straight forward.  Power down, of course, and I always remove the tubes before opening things up.  A little thing I learned is that you only have to remove the two screws from the bottom of the end panels and you can remove the bottom of the amp and have access to everything you need to get to.  Leave the top two in place on either end.  Also, be a little careful with the screws, they are pretty low quality and are easy to strip, esp. if you don't have the right size screw driver (by the way, unless you use a little something to assist with prying the small opamp out a screwdriver is the only tool you'll need for this job).  You open the amp and remove the existing opamp from the sockets by carefully prying it out.  The new one just "pops" in.  Be careful of the legs as they need to be inserted properly in the socket holes so you don't bend any while installing.  You also have to be sure that it's inserted correctly as it is directional.  This is simply done by noting which side the little "half-moon" (on top of the opamp) is facing when removing the current opamp, install the new one with the mark in the same direction.  I believe it's towards the front of the amp, but I'd have to open mine up to check and I'm short on time, also while I'm rushing this response a bit.  If you want some pictures I might be able to do that later, just let me know.
   
  You might want to check out the Amperex 6AK5W for a tube with a strong low end.  They were not easy for me to find, but they are still out there.  A nice combo with the 2107 for good bass and a warm sound.


----------



## john57

You just take the bottom two screws from the front and back and the bottom half of the case will come off. It might be better if you had the tubes out just to avoid breaking the tubes when you put the Little Dot upside down.
   
   
http://www.littledot.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=819&sid=c5ce444cfc5bbeb03dfb4e49d18544ff 
   
  Look at the last picture and it will show the op-amp right in the middle of the picture and you pry the op-amp out of the socket and caryfuly line up the new op-amp with the mark or notch on the new op-amp in the same direction of the old op-amp and push in carefully without folding the pins of the new op-amp  undertheath itself. It is common mistake for someone at the first time bend the pins out of position. Good Luck!


----------



## cruizin caleb

My opamp is on the way, i'll be sure to refer back to your instructions when it arrives. My flat pads just arrived and wow, they really do warm things up. Its interesting how some music sounds better with the flats, and some sounds better with the bowls. Its nice how easy they are to swap back and forth.
  
  Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> You might want to check out the Amperex 6AK5W for a tube with a strong low end.  They were not easy for me to find, but they are still out there.  A nice combo with the 2107 for good bass and a warm sound.


 

 That what I've read. I didn't see them on ebay, is there another place they can be found? I have these ( http://cgi.ebay.com/EF91-SPECIAL-CV5377-MULLARD-MATCHED-PAIR-NOS-/260735396781?pt=UK_Consumer_VintageAudio_RL&hash=item3cb50a6bad#ht_500wt_1156 )  now, how would they compare?


----------



## shipsupt

They can be a little difficult to track down.  I finally found a few pairs after checking in with a few web sellers.  You can send them e-mails to see what they have in stock.  If you are not able to track down those specific tubes, you might try other brand 6AK5's as they will be of similar design and construction.  Here are a few web sellers I have used with success:
http://www.vacuumtubesinc.com/
http://www.33audio.com/
  And of course a Google search will give many more options such as Tube World, thetubestore, etc...
   
  I haven't spent much time with the EF91 so I can't offer too much in the way of impressions, but you can find some earlier in this thread.  They should have a different sound than the 6AK5's as they are from a different tube family and are constructed differently.  Give them some time and tell us what you think!  That's the fun of rolling, building your own impressions.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





cruizin caleb said:


> I just purchased some new bowls as well as some TTVJ flat pads for my Grado RS-1s. its summer and I'm interesting in trying a different (not nessesarily 'better') sound. would rather play with my Grados - which i love - instead of buy new headphones. I'm currently using Mullard EF91 tubes and the stock opamp.


 
   
_what affects the sound more? the opamp or the tubes?_
   
_i'm interested in juicing up my RS-1's bass/deep-midrange (which is why i decided to buy the flat pads.) _
   
_what opamp / tube combo would do this?_
   
_EDIT: i was reading some posts in this thread and ended up buying a OPA2107._
_it also seems as if the Mullard EF91 (which I have) are already one of the warmer tubes?_
_and I have no idea what to do as far as swapping in/out the opamp. is there a good 'guide' anywhere?_


  
   
  Have to say that my favorite combo for the RS1i with LD, (had the LD1 for a couple of month now) and the one that I keep going back to is opamp 2107 with Mullard EF91's.
  The biggest sound difference for me was changing the stock opamp. I've tried 3 of the most popular and they are all better for Grado's. The stock is too harsh and transistor sounding. but if you only try one opamp, go for the 2107. It adds a bigger bottom end and adds body to the music without sounding clinical. A very musical opamp (typical burr brown).
  The EF91's aren't overly warm, but what they do offer is good extention at both ends without any hardness. I find them very open and exciting, the best I've tried yet.... all though I do have some Western 408a's on the way so I'll see how they do and get back to you.


----------



## griffindy

so does anyone have any suggestions as where to procure an OAP2107? I looked on TI's website and there seem to be a few varieties of them? I found this on ebay, can anyone tell me whether this is the appropriate chip? sorry for so may question marks....and thanks in advance for any advice!
   
http://cgi.ebay.com/Burr-Brown-OPA2107-precision-dual-difet-op-amp-ic-dip-/260655044299?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cb04056cb#ht_730wt_1022


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





griffindy said:


> so does anyone have any suggestions as where to procure an OAP2107? I looked on TI's website and there seem to be a few varieties of them? I found this on ebay, can anyone tell me whether this is the appropriate chip? sorry for so may question marks....and thanks in advance for any advice!
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Burr-Brown-OPA2107-precision-dual-difet-op-amp-ic-dip-/260655044299?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cb04056cb#ht_730wt_1022


 


 Yep I'd say that is the real deal. You need the 8 dip version as that is.


----------



## griffindy

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Yep I'd say that is the real deal. You need the 8 dip version as that is.


 

 thanks so much! cheapest impulse buy ever


----------



## cruizin caleb

Quote: 





griffindy said:


> so does anyone have any suggestions as where to procure an OAP2107? I looked on TI's website and there seem to be a few varieties of them? I found this on ebay, can anyone tell me whether this is the appropriate chip? sorry for so may question marks....and thanks in advance for any advice!
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Burr-Brown-OPA2107-precision-dual-difet-op-amp-ic-dip-/260655044299?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cb04056cb#ht_730wt_1022


 
  i bought this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170632916927&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_2275wt_967
   
  but it seems as if the price doubled since i bought it. i only payed like $10


----------



## griffindy

Quote: 





cruizin caleb said:


> i bought this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170632916927&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_2275wt_967
> 
> but it seems as if the price doubled since i bought it. i only payed like $10


 

 the only thing that worries me is that one I bought didn't have a half moon indentation and yours does, but in any case this is probably the cheapest upgrade I can do!
   
   
  EDIT: *cruizin caleb*, I just noticed that the link you had was for *two *opamps, and I found the same dealer but only one opamp and that is $10.80


----------



## john57

I brought the two OPA2107 op-amps in case that I bend the pins to far out of place to be straghten out all for about $8. There are many vendors to chose from that sells the OPA2107 on EBay.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





griffindy said:


> the only thing that worries me is that one I bought didn't have a half moon indentation and yours does, but in any case this is probably the cheapest upgrade I can do!
> 
> 
> EDIT: *cruizin caleb*, I just noticed that the link you had was for *two *opamps, and I found the same dealer but only one opamp and that is $10.80


 
   

 The picture is of a standard 8 dip chip, but your 2107 will have both writing and half moon on so no worries!


----------



## LugBug1

My Western 408a's came today, so ive been giving them ago. They seem to have similar characteristics to the EF95's, (very "tubey") only everything is clearer and more precise. Nice big bass but not as loose as the 95's. They do seem bright at the top but no sign of sibilance, maybe a little hardness. The soundstage is the biggest I've heard yet, I've been able to play some complex orchestral music with my Rs1's and with next to no congestion. Very good! most recommended.
   
  It's a tough call between these and the Mullard ef91's, but because of the slightly bigger soundstage and clarity me thinks the 408's are the winners, although they may prove to be tireing for some.


----------



## john57

I have tried many different types of 408A's but always go back to the Western brand. As some of you already know the 408A's were originally made for high speed telephone switching equipment at the time. There is only a few amps today that can use the 408A tubes and it is one of the many good reasons that I will keep the Little Dot 1+ for it flexibility.


----------



## griffindy

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> The picture is of a standard 8 dip chip, but your 2107 will have both writing and half moon on so no worries!


 

 Ah, thank you for assuaging my fears! I'm also planning on purchasing the western electric 408A's from the tube store, I'm glad to hear you like them.


----------



## cruizin caleb

wow these screws our awful. two of them came out fairly easy. it seems that i stripped the other two.


----------



## cruizin caleb

NEVERMIND. i got it. trying to get the OPAMP out now. seems tricky. i don't want to break anything.
   
  EDIT: UGH how do you get a grip on this little thing??
   
  EDIT 2: Wait what do you guys mean 'careful not to bend the legs'? It won't go in unless the legs are pushed in a bit?
   
  EDIT 3: Ok, i got it! This sounds great! definitely a thicker/meatier sound. richer. excited to listen with my new turntable when my nad pp2 and new cartridge comes in!  Listening with RS-1s, flat pads, and Mullard EF91 through a uDAC.


----------



## john57

Glad that you changed the op-amp. Many chips I had to reform the legs by bending one side of the chip a bit with a straight edge to make sure that the legs are at 90 degrees. What I meet by not bending the legs was not to crush the legs underneath the chip or sticking out while pushing the chip or op-amp into the socket.
   
  Gee, more poeple are getting turntables!


----------



## rbf1138

I figured I may as well post here first that I'm going to be putting my barely-month-old LD up for sale here, along with extra 408A tubes and a few different opamps. Probably this evening, so check out the for sale forum later on.


----------



## griffindy

I got my OPA2107 in (also had to bend the legs in a little bit, so don't worry cruizin caleb) and it does sound a little deeper, I can definitely get some more bass going, now I just need to get some tubes to role, was thinking about M8100's and WE 408a's, anyone care to comment?


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





griffindy said:


> I got my OPA2107 in (also had to bend the legs in a little bit, so don't worry cruizin caleb) and it does sound a little deeper, I can definitely get some more bass going, now I just need to get some tubes to role, was thinking about M8100's and WE 408a's, anyone care to comment?


 


 Both those tubes are good choices, but in my experience the WE 408a is similar to the M8100's only much better. I think you may hear more of a difference trying a Mullard EF91/92 ; they offer a more warm cosy sound compared to the 408a's. I really like the 408a's though and I now find it hard to listen to my other tubes. They offer such clarity and bigger soundstage, abeit' at a little expense of warmth.. but you can't have everything! just almost.


----------



## john57

Same here I tired many 408A tubes and found myself going back the Western E[size=medium]lectric [/size]408A. Brought  quite a few pairs for the life of the amp.


----------



## Nike T

How do the WE408a's compare with the Sylvania gold brand 408a's?


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





nike t said:


> How do the WE408a's compare with the Sylvania gold brand 408a's?


 


 Havent heard them. But i've read that they are very tubey and engaging, although apparently with a slighly smaller soundstage. If I ever see any on Ebay I'll be snapping em up to give them a try


----------



## zero7525

I'll be receiving my Little Dot 1+ within a week or two. It's paired with the WE480As and the LT1364 LM4562 opamp. I'm going to be using these with 32 ohm DT880s.
  If I don't like the sound, I'll go buy an opa2107 and see how that works out. I'll post my thoughts here soon.
   
  EDIT: Due to some complaints about the high DC offset of the LT1364, I will refrain from using that opamp and will use the LM4562 in its stead (also came with the amp). Better safe than sorry.


----------



## shipsupt

zero7525 said:


> I'll be receiving my Little Dot 1+ within a week or two. It's paired with the WE480As and the LT1364 opamp. I'm going to be using these with 32 ohm DT880s.
> If I don't like the sound, I'll go buy an opa2107 and see how that works out. I'll post my thoughts here soon.




Congratulations! Looking forward to hearing what you think of your new amp!


----------



## henree

Anyone else have trouble with the Ef95 family of tubes? I recently received some Amperex 6ak5w tubes. And there is a buzzing going on in my right ear. And switching around the tubes does nothing. I also had the exact same issue with some Ef95 russian groove tubes. 6zh1p russian do the same buzzing in the right ear. It has to be the unit right?


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





henree said:


> Anyone else have trouble with the Ef95 family of tubes? I recently received some Amperex 6ak5w tubes. And there is a buzzing going on in my right ear. And switching around the tubes does nothing. I also had the exact same issue with some Ef95 russian groove tubes. 6zh1p russian do the same buzzing in the right ear. It has to be the unit right?


 


 just a long shot but you did change the jumber settings if needed right? I found that changing to ef95's from the ef92 settings, that the amp acted strange and If I touched the amp it made a noise. This did calm down after a while though. I think it would be strange for two different lots of tubes to have buzzing in the right ear. I would make double sure that you have the jumbers in the right place.


----------



## shipsupt

[size=10pt]I'd try a few simple steps... [/size]

 [size=10pt]clean the tube sockets with some deoxit[/size]
 [size=10pt]Move the amp around to be sure you're getting no RF, some tubes are more susceptible to it[/size]


----------



## griffindy

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> [size=10pt]I'd try a few simple steps... [/size]
> 
> [size=10pt]clean the tube sockets with some deoxit[/size]
> [size=10pt]Move the amp around to be sure you're getting no RF, some tubes are more susceptible to it[/size]


 


  +1 on the RF, I can't keep mine too close to my Macbook Pro, either because of its PSU or the wifi


----------



## henree

Quote: 





griffindy said:


> +1 on the RF, I can't keep mine too close to my Macbook Pro, either because of its PSU or the wifi
> 
> Awesome thanks for the response. My Apple TV was right next to my Amp and moving it away solved the problem. I guess the Ef95 tubes are sensitive to the wifi signal.


----------



## john57

It seems that there is allot of RF pollution in the home environment as people move away from wired connections. Any audio device close to a transmitter can cause interference. I did had some issues with cables picking up RF signals cause a sort of overload that spilled into the audio range of the device. I use ferrite cokes on the cables and correct placement of wireless devices can do much to reduce interference. In the old tube TVs there were metal shields on some tubes to protect them from other tubes and the strong magnetic fields on the main picture tube that can generate interference with some tubes. Driver tubes or the pre-amp tubes are more likely to pick up interference than power tubes because of the gain factor.


----------



## cruizin caleb

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> You might want to check out the Amperex 6AK5W for a tube with a strong low end.  They were not easy for me to find, but they are still out there.  A nice combo with the 2107 for good bass and a warm sound.


 

 http://cgi.ebay.com/2x-Amperex-EF91-Matched-Pair-Little-Dot-Amp-Mk-III-6AM6-/290582170623?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43a80c0bff#ht_1234wt_1141
   
  are these the bass heavy Amperex tubes people have been talking about in this thread? it doesn't say 6ak5w but isn't that the same as EF91? i'm confused.


----------



## shipsupt

cruizin caleb said:


> http://cgi.ebay.com/2x-Amperex-EF91-Matched-Pair-Little-Dot-Amp-Mk-III-6AM6-/290582170623?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43a80c0bff#ht_1234wt_1141
> 
> are these the bass heavy Amperex tubes people have been talking about in this thread? it doesn't say 6ak5w but isn't that the same as EF91? i'm confused.




The 6AK5 equivalent is the EF95, the 6AK5W is the EF95F, so no these aren't the tubes frequently mentioned.


----------



## zero7525

[size=medium]I just got my Little Dot 1+ a week ago. To summarize my thoughts so far, I believe that the highs in my DT880 32 ohm became more refined, the bass tighter and less loose, and the mids more lush and forward than without an amp. Switching between the stock 6JI and the WE408A tubes, I believe that the stock ones put out a lot more bass and the highs were unrefined, a dark/harsh set of tubes if I've ever listened to one. I've never rolled opamps, but I feel that the LM4562 that I have sounds pretty neutral and detailed to me. I have an LT1364 from the previous owner but I've heard about the horrors of its DC offset affecting headphones. The LM4562 and WE408A combo is a charm for me. 
   

   
  EDIT: updated pic​[/size]


----------



## shipsupt

Thanks for the impressions.
   
  I had heard that there were concerns about DC offset from the 1364, but never heard anyone actually reporting a problem caused by it... did you hear/read of some actual damage caused?


----------



## zero7525

What I've read is that because of the LT1364s opamp type (bi-polar), it produces DC offset in excess of +20mA. Apparently, too much DC offset can reposition the headphone's drivers, causing the sound to go to one side or worse, overheat and fry the headphones.


----------



## shipsupt

Ok, that's pretty much the same thing I read.  I took the same cautious approach as you and have not tried the LT1364 in the LD I+... although I was tempted because there were quite a few folks who liked the sound and ran it for long periods with no issues.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Ok, that's pretty much the same thing I read.  I took the same cautious approach as you and have not tried the LT1364 in the LD I+... although I was tempted because there were quite a few folks who liked the sound and ran it for long periods with no issues.


 


 Yeah I tried it for a while with no probs, I quite liked the sound with Grado's as it added a bit more soundstage and smoothed the hardness that was there with stock. I gave it about the same amount of time as the 4562 (I found this one a little too neutral with Grado) but settled on the 2107. All depends on the phones your using though.


----------



## DanPluck

I have had my Little Dot 1+ for about a month now and im constantly astonished at the sound it produces.  I started out with the standard opamp and EF92s and have been on quite a tube rolling journey. 
   
  First of all i upgraded to the 2107 and was very pleased with the results, from there i tried the following tubes
  Mullard M8161
  Mullard EF91 - blue glass
  Mullard CV4014
  Colomor EF92
  Brimar 6064
  Voskhod 6ZH1P-EB
   
  With Grado Sr125's my favorite tube was, by far the Brimar 6064, but now i have upgraded to Alessandro MS2i's and  im in love with the 6ZH1P-EB.  In my opinion the Voskhods are easily the best match to my setup, at £14 delivered for 10 you cant complain at all and they also give off a very satisfying glow 
   
  Source>Winamp 320 mp3/Flac>Xonar D2X>LittleDot 1+>Grado Sr125/Alessandro MS2i.
   
  edit: The Voskhods seem to be significantly more resilient to interference.  My little dot is sat about 12 inches away from my PC, 850watt PSU and i get no background noise at all.  Compared to the m8161's who have a high pitched whine at loud volumes.


----------



## henree

Would it be okay to try two Opa 627 single opamps biased into class A? I also have a audio gd sun opamp laying around. I haven't tried it because I don't want to mess up anything.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





danpluck said:


> I have had my Little Dot 1+ for about a month now and im constantly astonished at the sound it produces.  I started out with the standard opamp and EF92s and have been on quite a tube rolling journey.
> 
> First of all i upgraded to the 2107 and was very pleased with the results, from there i tried the following tubes
> Mullard M8161
> ...


 


 Some nice tubes there. If you can, give the old Western 408 a go and let us know what you think. I think they work great with the 2107 opamp. For me they have good synergy; big soundstage, detail and weight. Best I've tried yet.


----------



## cruizin caleb

does matched/unmatched matter?


----------



## n5750547

Hello there fellow head fi creepers,
   
  Couple of things (I will be reading this whole thread but I just want some advice so I can order my amp ASAP):
  1. I have D5000's and I'm looking for a tube amp to suit. I was looking at the MkIII but was advised against it due to the amount of current that Denon's use. Does anyone have any experience matching the Mk1+ and D5000 (or MD5000/MD2000 as I'm thinking of getting the Markl mod with the money I will have saved by getting a cheaper amp)?
  2. What are the best tubes to tighten the bass and bring forward the mids?
  3. What are the main competitors (<$150) for the MKI?


----------



## john57

The Little Dot 1+ will work just fine with the Denons. Look at http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide  for you tube rolling options.


----------



## DanPluck

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Some nice tubes there. If you can, give the old Western 408 a go and let us know what you think. I think they work great with the 2107 opamp. For me they have good synergy; big soundstage, detail and weight. Best I've tried yet.


 
   
  Thanks, to be honest i will probably end up selling them all except the Voshkods as they are easily my favorite.  Il try and pick up for 408's once i have sold some of my existing collection.


  Quote: 





cruizin caleb said:


> does matched/unmatched matter?


 
   
  Hasnt made a single bit of difference in my limited experience.


----------



## benzoylmethyl

What do you like about the Vosh's?  I was looking at a set of 6AK5's from them, but I hadn't heard anything about them before.


----------



## DanPluck

Its difficult for me to describe as im a bit of an audiophile newbie but they just work with my setup.
   
  The Grado/Alessandros are famously tuned for mids and highs.  The voshkods seem to add some "thump" to the low end and relax the highs a little.  Overall it sounds a lot more balanced, the highs are tamed but without loosing resolution and the lows have more oomph.
   
  It should be noted that these results are with some 1988 Voshkods and im currently waiting for some 1970's to be delivered, i will update once i have recieved and burned them in.


----------



## eclipes

Hey guys
   
  I have an extra pair of the Mullard M8083 Large Shield Matched Pair - Brand new. Sounds great, bought it based on the recommendations of this thread.
   
  Just PM me if interested


----------



## benzoylmethyl

Quote: 





danpluck said:


> Its difficult for me to describe as im a bit of an audiophile newbie but they just work with my setup.
> 
> The Grado/Alessandros are famously tuned for mids and highs.  The voshkods seem to add some "thump" to the low end and relax the highs a little.  Overall it sounds a lot more balanced, the highs are tamed but without loosing resolution and the lows have more oomph.
> 
> It should be noted that these results are with some 1988 Voshkods and im currently waiting for some 1970's to be delivered, i will update once i have recieved and burned them in.


 
   
  Awesome.  Thank you, and I look forward to hearing what you think of the later models.  I've seen a few of these floating around that are compatible with my Hifiman EF2, and they're relatively inexpensive so I wouldn't mind picking up a few pairs for when my Mullards die.  I'll be using them with woodied Grado 225i's myself, so that works out doubly well.


----------



## DanPluck

Quote: 





benzoylmethyl said:


> Awesome.  Thank you, and I look forward to hearing what you think of the later models.  I've seen a few of these floating around that are compatible with my Hifiman EF2, and they're relatively inexpensive so I wouldn't mind picking up a few pairs for when my Mullards die.  I'll be using them with woodied Grado 225i's myself, so that works out doubly well.


 

 After a couple of weeks listening i can say that i definately prefer the 1980's voshkods.  Im based in the UK but id be happy to send you a pair of either the 70/80s for postage costs.  If so just shoot me a PM and we can go from there.


----------



## zero7525

According to the Little Dot tube rating thread, I have decided to get a pair of _Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV_. My WE408A tubes have a strange whooshing noise and I suspect that they are dying. Also, the jumpers in my model seem to be the cause of additional misfortune. The jumpers don't give good enough electrical contact, leading to strange things such as the tubes not turning on or channel imbalance (gain jumpers). Once I get new jumpers and tubes, I'll be posting my impressions here. Phew, I didn't know that tube amps (mainly this amp) required a lot more maintenance than solid state amps.


----------



## john57

It could also means that the tube pins could need cleaning but I normally just do it once. There are extra jumpers in the package that comes with the cable. I have not heard about the jumpers not being tight enough.


----------



## zero7525

It seems that, once I picked up a few spare jumpers from a local TigerDirect (they were nice enough to give them to me), I replaced them and voila, there is no more channel imbalance. Also, the whooshing noise from the amp seemed to be the fault of the faulty jumpers, not the tubes. So for now, I will continue to use the WE408A until further notice.


----------



## john57

I keep that in mind if the jumpers slide too easily replace them.


----------



## eclipes

Hey guys 
   
  Can anyone recommend me the warmest possible setup? Currently using Opamp 2107AP and Mullard M8083.


----------



## cruizin caleb

Quote: 





eclipes said:


> Hey guys
> 
> Can anyone recommend me the warmest possible setup? Currently using Opamp 2107AP and Mullard M8083.


 

 From what i've read, Amperex 6AK5W if you can find them. If you're using Grado (RS-1s) flat pads will make your setup warmer than any tube or Opamp will IMO......


----------



## shipsupt

The Amperex 6AKW are a good combination with the 2107 for a warm sound.  Great lows, but not detail monsters.
   
  If you have trouble finding them (they took me a while to track down) you might try something like the Mullard M8100/CV4010.  
   
  What are you running for tubes now?
   
   
  Quote: 





cruizin caleb said:


> From what i've read, Amperex 6AK5W if you can find them. If you're using Grado (RS-1s) flat pads will make your setup warmer than any tube or Opamp will IMO......


 


   


  Quote: 





eclipes said:


> Hey guys
> 
> Can anyone recommend me the warmest possible setup? Currently using Opamp 2107AP and Mullard M8083.


----------



## Aynjell

As everyone knows here, I'm a big fan of the mullard 8100's. 
   
  I second those. A good tube for the price especially with the I+. It's the first tube to make that amp sound huge for me.


----------



## Tribbs

I received my LD I+ yesterday.  I placed my order on a Satuday and David from Little Dot confirmed my order the following Monday.  It arrived exactly one week later.
   
  Looking forward to rolling a few tubes with my Grado 325i.


----------



## Melvins

Really, have wanted this Amp for months. Going to be getting it this christmas. Will probably just order directly from Little dot unless I find one on sale here. What are the essential tubes, ob amps I should look for? I listen to 75% metal (sludge, doom, drone) 15% indie (ambient, indie-rock) and 10% misc (hip hop, classical). I would like a darker sound. I will be using these with my woodied sr125is


----------



## Tribbs

Be sure to peruse this _*Tube rolling for the Grado SR-225 *_thread,
  as well as the _*Little Dot tube rolling guide thread*_.
   
  What I have gleaned from reading various threads, and what I baught so far but not yet rolled, are
  LM4562NA, OPA2107AP and LT1364.
  I also plan to bias them into class A in the future.
   
  The tubes I have, but not yet rolled, are:
   
  Восход 6Ж1П-ЕВ / Voshod / Voskhod 6Zh1P-EV [5654/EF95]
  GE JAN5654W [EF95]
  Mullard M8161/CV4015 [EF92]
   
  Meanwhile, I want to familiarize myself with the standard signature of this Little Dot amp using its stock Chinese 6JI tube and MC33078 opamp before I start rolling.
   
  So much music, so little time...


----------



## Tribbs

After several weeks and countless combinations of tube and opamp rolls,
  my favorite LD I+ Tube/OpAmp combination with my Grado 325i cans turned out to be (drum roll)...
   
Восход 6Ж1П-ЕВ / Voskhod 6Zh1P-EV [EF95]

   
  and LME49720HA (w/TO-5 heatsink, BrownDog adapter and "Class A" bias DIP adapter using 3.9KΩ resistors)
    +  + 
   
  I am devoid of superlatives and won't go into flowery audiophile descriptors to explain my choice.
  All I will say is that it was fun and encourage others to try to find your audio nirvana.
  ______________________________________________________________________________________
   
  FYI - The following OpAmps exhibited unacceptable high DC offset voltages so I would avoid using them:
   
ADA4627-1BRZ
OPA602BP
   
  (These were free samples so no loss to me.)


----------



## heavyfidelity

I have a very basic question about op amps. I recently purchased a Little Dot + amp and I've read this entire thread to get a sense of the different tube and op amp combinations. I just replaced the stock op amp with the OPA2107 and it has indeed made a noticeable improvement in sound quality.
   
  Now I'm asking myself "Why does it sound better?". I've read a bit about op amps but most of the articles I've found tend to be quite technical. Can anyone explain in laymen's terms how op amps work? How is processing the signal to improve the sound?
   
  Thanks!


----------



## Tribbs

That's a good question for The OpAmp Thread.


----------



## Melvins

Ok so what Opamps produce the best SQ for listeners of metal/drone/ambient/heavier music? What's the real noticable difference is all of these variations? What are the needed know hows in owning/operating a LD 1+ ? I am so excited to finally get a tube amp for my Grado's!


----------



## GotNoRice

Quote: 





melvins said:


> Ok so what Opamps produce the best SQ for listeners of metal/drone/ambient/heavier music? What's the real noticable difference is all of these variations? What are the needed know hows in owning/operating a LD 1+ ? I am so excited to finally get a tube amp for my Grado's!


 


  Your results may vary but I've found the LM4562 to be the best OpAmp for Metal/Hard Rock.  It has just enough of a hint of graininess to give the sound a satisfying mix of texture and clarity which does wonders for male vocals and rhythmic drum beats.  The OP2107 on the other hand has a bit more bass and a softer sound but at the expense of clarity which makes it not as good of a match IMO.


----------



## Melvins

Awesome man, appreciate the recomendation. Anyone else


----------



## willmax

Heya fellow Little Dot I+ Head-fiers

 Just wanted to share my latest purchase with you all. After much consideration over the amount of head-fi gear I've accumulated in the course of this year, I have decide to buy yet another amp to drive my GRADO headphones, I have just pulled the trigger on a Little Dot I+ hybrid amp.

 I was tossing between the LD I+ and MAD Ear+, and since the huge price difference between both amps in the end I figured I could not go wrong with the LD I+ and it would be the less hurtful option for my wallet, that is what I hope anyway.

 So if any of you guys have any suggestions on how to get the best out of my GRADO LD I+ combo please let me know, this will be my first foray into tube sound so recommendations on tube rolling options and opamp combinations are welcome too.
  
  Cheers


----------



## willmax

^^^
  I have also ordered a few tubes to go with my new LD I+:
   
  - Mullard 8100 CV4014 EF91 NOS
  - RCA 5654 Black Plate 
   
  I'm still temped to buy a pair of Voshkod 6ZH1P but I think I will wait and a little longer.


----------



## Melvins

I just bought the updated EF92 from LD. Where are the sources in which you can get these tubes and opamps


----------



## willmax

Quote: 





melvins said:


> I just bought the updated EF92 from LD. Where are the sources in which you can get these tubes and opamps


 


  Both bought over eBay, I'm not sure if these are reliable sources but decided to take a punt:
   
  - Mullard 8100 CV4014 EF91 NOS - http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190600709736
   
  - RCA 5654 Black PlateThe - http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280764039963
   
  I just saw a post about a price increase of 5% from 2012 for the Little Dot products on their website, luckily mine has just shipped


----------



## Melvins

whatt. That's crazy. So has mine. It's just been sitting in HK the past few days. I have to wait till Christmas to listen to it anyway. -.-


----------



## willmax

Here it is fellas, it arrived yesterday.
  I only listened to it for a couple of hours yesterday and a bit more today, so far it sounds great with stock tubes and opamp, very smooth sounding, I'm liking what I hear. Need to let it burn in to get a real taste of this baby.
   
  It came with a nice RCA to 3.5 Audio jack cable, looks like top quality stuff, also included an 6.3 to 3.5 adapter.


----------



## Grado77

---------------------


----------



## Melvins

Quote: 





willmax said:


> Here it is fellas, it arrived yesterday.
> I only listened to it for a couple of hours yesterday and a bit more today, so far it sounds great with stock tubes and opamp, very smooth sounding, I'm liking what I hear. Need to let it burn in to get a real taste of this baby.
> 
> It came with a nice RCA to 3.5 Audio jack cable, looks like top quality stuff, also included an 6.3 to 3.5 adapter.


 


  ahhh mines in tennesee. Should be here by tuesday. Literally cannot waittt


----------



## Melvins

where would you get jumper pins at?


----------



## shipsupt

A few have picked them up from shops that carry them for computers, seems they are pretty standard... Radio shack maybe?
   
  Edit: didn't see that you might want those particular jumpers pictured above.... Not sure on those.
   

  
  Quote: 





melvins said:


> where would you get jumper pins at?


----------



## john57

Usually there is a few spare jumpers packed with the bag that the cable came in.


----------



## Melvins

the cable for the LD? No, I'm not looking for that one in particular. Just in general. if it would make my life easier in the future


----------



## Grado77

------------


----------



## Melvins

ok, so just recieved my LD1+ and already love it! how are you supposed to clean these tubes exactly? also, the left one is already dark and the left chamber of my headphones sort of has a hum, up until you play the music, then you can't even tell it's there at all, and as I play music, it sort of dissappitates. The whole removing the jumber caps things was a little confusing because the booklet made it seem like tehre was more to it then just moving caps around/removing them. anyway...PICTURES:
   
 thats the left one out, which is blackened, was wondering if that's bad sign or something.
   
  My new babies with my old babies:


----------



## willmax

Did you try to swap the tubes from side to side to see whether it presents something different? 
  I think the hum you hear it is probably not a good thing. Did you try to contact David, I hear he is pretty good answering questions and giving support for his products.
   
  My amp does not have a hum, however the light is uneven in the tubes, the left one is more dimmed than the right. Also are you using stock tubes? I ask this because from the picture your tube is different to mine, yours has got a star type disc at the top while mine is plain round. Mine is stock by the way.


----------



## Melvins

amp doesn't hum anymore, now I'm more concerned with the burnt/dark color of the left tube.


----------



## Grado77

--------------


----------



## Melvins

I have the EF92 which LD1+ sells, upgraded to it when I made my purchase. Is that the mullard or no? also, how do you take off, put on the op amps? just unclip the sides and stuff? Thanks so much man for answering my questions.


----------



## john57

Quote: 





melvins said:


> amp doesn't hum anymore, now I'm more concerned with the burnt/dark color of the left tube.


 


 The picture quality is cloudy but it appears it is just a darker getter coating. The coating can be silver like or dark depending on how the getter is deposit in the tube during manufacture. As long the getter is not white you are okay.
  It does give the appearance that the tubes are from different batches.


----------



## Melvins

yeah, I believe that's it. sorry, crappy cell phone quality. anyway, it just immediatly sort of turned that dark color while the other one still remains slightly clear. This thing sounds ridiculously smooth. I'm in love


----------



## Grado77

---------------


----------



## willmax

I have two pairs of tubes coming my way, one pair of RCA and one pair of Mullard. In the mean time I am listening to the stock tubes and Opamp on my new LDI+, trying to listen  as much as I can since it is a very enjoyable amp to my ears, it is definitely my best amp purchase so far and it pair very well with my Grados and Beyer headphones. At the same time I'm kinda getting a bit anxious to crack this little gem open and start tube/opamp rolling ='D


----------



## Tribbs

You may want to buy a cheap chip puller:
   

   
http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/303259-tool-extractor-ic-8-24pin-ex-1.html
   
  But you may find inserting an opamp chip more difficult than extraction.
  So you may want to invest in one of the many available IC insertion/extraction tools.


----------



## Melvins

I heard from someone recently that the whole "opamp" rolling thing doesn't really alter the sound that much. That it's sort of just blown up. That tubes change the sound much more than opamps...than again, it was just a single person's opinion.


----------



## shipsupt

There are a few schools of thought, that is for sure.  If you head into the sound science forum there are endless debates on how opamps do or do not alter sound.  I think that many here in this thread expressed that they noticed improvements, some saying that in this hybrid design opAmp changes had more effect than rolling tubes.  YMMV of course, best to make a few changes and see what you think.  It's cheap, and fun.


----------



## lh0628

Anybody using Shure SR840 or Monster Copper with this? Please chip in on your experience with the little dot I+.


----------



## wildcat46734

What type of thing do i need to look at to make sure it will work with the Little Dot 1+? Do I just type in EF92 or something into Ebay? What are some common options (links please  ) http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-X-EF92-MULLARD-YELLOW-LOGO-D-GETTER-NOS-TUBE-MATCHED-PAIR-/260915213820?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3cbfc235fc Will something like these work well? Thanks for the help


----------



## willmax

I have received my new tubes bought from eBay, a pair of Mullard 8100 and a pair of RCA black plate, both are faulty and do not work properly, very disappointed with the purchase.


----------



## shipsupt

As in dead on arrival?  
   
  That's too bad, I've gad great luck with careful tube purchases from ebay so far.  I also purchased a tube tester to check tubes before I put them in my amps.
   

  
  Quote: 





willmax said:


> I have received my new tubes bought from eBay, a pair of Mullard 8100 and a pair of RCA black plate, both are faulty and do not work properly, very disappointed with the purchase.


----------



## willmax

Well not dead but defective, the mullards one tube is significantly lower in volume and the RCA one of the tubes has a hum and the shiny thingy at the top is gone.


----------



## shipsupt

Well, silly question but I'll ask anyway... did you set the jumpers for the right tubes?
   
  That's got to be super frustrating.  Any chance the seller will consider taking them back or replacing them?


----------



## willmax

Hum... I thought about that too, but I'm not sure about it as I'm pretty new to the tube world. 
 My LD came stock from factory with stock tubes on it, so after reading this post I thought I was good to go as both of my tubes seem to be part of the EF95 family.
   
  I don't think sending it back is an option since shipping cost from Australia are through the nose, and I haven't contacted the sellers yet though.
   
  It certainly is very frustating as it was my first tube purchase, I only spent like $30 but I wish I had spent a bit more and bought 2x Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV from "yenaudiostore" on eBay instead, at least this guy seems to have a good reputation among Head-Fiers.


----------



## shipsupt

You should be fine if you had something from the EF95 family in there before... but I would make a check to be absolutely sure, and it wouldn't hurt to become familiar with opening the unit and sighting the jumpers etc... It's easy stufff.


----------



## wildcat46734

Can anyone recommend me a good set of tubes that will pair well with a modified set of Grado SR-80s and indie rock music (James Vincent McMorrow, Ben Howard, Fleet Foxes, My Morning Jacket, etc)? I would like them to be fairly cheap (less than 30-35 if possible) and incredibly smooth. I don't need much bass and I really just want smooth warm mids and highs. I love vocals and acoustic guitar so some stuff to accent that. Thanks


----------



## wildcat46734

^^Bump


----------



## Napkin

Quote: 





willmax said:


> Hum... I thought about that too, but I'm not sure about it as I'm pretty new to the tube world.
> My LD came stock from factory with stock tubes on it, so after reading this post I thought I was good to go as both of my tubes seem to be part of the EF95 family.
> 
> I don't think sending it back is an option since shipping cost from Australia are through the nose, and I haven't contacted the sellers yet though.
> ...


 
   
  I bought the exact same pair of tubes after reading that post! I also ended up buying the 2107 OP-Amp as a lot of people have reported increased SQ with it!


----------



## Melvins

hey, I have the updated ef92 tubes that i upgraded automatically from LD and was wondering what a good/cheap option was from moving up from this? haven't started tube rolling at all and was wondering where a good place to start would be


----------



## shipsupt

If you just want to try something new how about something out of the 408a camp?  Lots of options, cheap and expensive. 
   
  I'm not sure it's easy to say what a move up is... it depends on what you're after in the long run...


----------



## Melvins

and where could I purchase these? Ebay links?


----------



## shipsupt

You can always email a vendor and ask what they have... examples:
http://www.vacuumtubesinc.com/
http://www.33audio.com/
  And of course a Google search will give many more options such as Tube World, thetubestore, etc...
   
  A few from ebay. I don't know anything about any of these sellers:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=408a+tube&_sacat=0
   
  The Sylvania GB-408A with gold pins is pretty well thought of, but will usually come at a higher price.


----------



## willmax

What about something like this (just to throw some options):
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/6J1P-EF95-MATCHED-PAIR-tube-1970s-Little-Dot-MK-II-/140668543097
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-MATCHED-TUBES-6J1P-EV-GOLD-GRID-6J1P-EF95-6F32-6AK5-NOS-PAIR-/250958698676
   
  One thing is for sure they are cheap, but I haven't tried any of these sellers.


----------



## Melvins

does anyone have any nice tubes that they are looking to get rid of? I surely will pay for something to update my standard LD1+ updated EF92's


----------



## willmax

Can anyone in the know tell me whether these tubes would work with the LD I+ please?
   
  http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/140610339221
   
  Thank you!


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





willmax said:


> Can anyone in the know tell me whether these tubes would work with the LD I+ please?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/140610339221
> 
> Thank you!


 

 Absolutely not!


----------



## Melvins

how can you tell?


----------



## john57

That is a 6DJ8 or 6922 tube that is not compatible for use in the Little Dot 1+ hybrid amp. You can look at the first post here for compatible tubes.


----------



## Melvins

i see


----------



## Melvins

Quote: 





grado77 said:


> Looks good willmax...........enjoy!
> 
> Proceed directly to Mullard M8161 and LM4562.
> 
> ...


 


  http://www.ebay.com/itm/LM4562NA-Dual-High-Performance-Audio-Op-Amp-IC-LM4562-/360324403926?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53e50212d6#ht_3397wt_956
   
  is that the op amp you are referring to?


----------



## Melvins

again, anyone interested in selling me some tubes? I've found struggling through E-bay to be tiresome, and bitterly confusing


----------



## Tribbs

Buy yourself a pair of these and be done with it:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-matched-6J1P-EV-EF95-6AK7-Gold-Platinum-grid-NIB-/130576230059?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1e66f326ab
   
  You can easilly spend more on tubes and opamps than what this amp is worth.  You would be better off limiting your opamps and tubes and save up for something more exiting down the road such as a better amp and cans.


----------



## Melvins

I know I just want one pair of updated tubes and and one opamp. I def will be updating my cans next, after I get a cheap(ish) DAC


----------



## Melvins

what do those sound like? I like em, cheap and look awesome. I just hate to wait that long


----------



## Tribbs

Quote:


melvins said:


> what do those sound like? I like em, cheap and look awesome. I just hate to wait that long


 

 Little Dot Tube Amps: Vacuum Tube Rolling Guide
  see sec. 3.10   *Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV*
http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide


----------



## Melvins

Awesome did you pm me your PayPal yet? Those sound awesome


----------



## vaulter1

Quote: 





melvins said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/LM4562NA-Dual-High-Performance-Audio-Op-Amp-IC-LM4562-/360324403926?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53e50212d6#ht_3397wt_956
> 
> is that the op amp you are referring to?


 

 Slightly off topic but I just had to point out something about the above link.  Can anyone figure out to where this seller will actually ship?  He says Worldwide under "Shipping To" but then has a giant list of Exclusions - which I'm used to being on, living in South Africa.  Also on the list are:  North America, Central America, UK, Ireland, China, Australia, New Zealand, Hong Kong, Russian Federation, the list goes on...  If I had more time I'd actually go through the whole list just for fun, to see if there are any countries left.


----------



## john57

Looks like just USA mostly as stated in shipping costs.. I did not see metion of North America


----------



## vaulter1

Quote: 





john57 said:


> Looks like just USA mostly as stated in shipping costs.. I did not see metion of North America


 


  They've obviously caught their mistake since this is the list from the ad when I first looked at it:
   
   
[size=12pt]item location: hongkong, Hong Kong[/size]
[size=12pt]Shipping to: Worldwide[/size]
[size=12pt]Excludes: New Zealand, Fiji, Papua New Guinea, Guadeloupe, Marshall Islands, Wallis and Futuna, Gambia, Malaysia, Mayotte, Taiwan, Poland, Suriname, Oman, Kenya, United Arab Emirates, Argentina, Middle East, Guinea-Bissau, Togo, Senegal, Armenia, Bhutan, Uzbekistan, Ireland, Qatar, Falkland Islands (Islas Malvinas), Netherlands, Burundi, Slovakia, Iraq, Equatorial Guinea, Slovenia, Thailand, North America, Aruba, American Samoa, Sweden, Iceland, Macedonia, Liechtenstein, Israel, Kuwait, Belgium, Algeria, Benin, Russian Federation, Oceania, Antigua and Barbuda, Italy, Swaziland, Pakistan, Tanzania, Ukraine, Singapore, Panama, Burkina Faso, Jersey, Kyrgyzstan, Switzerland, Reunion, Djibouti, Chile, Puerto Rico, China, Mali, Croatia, Republic of, Botswana, Cambodia, Portugal, Indonesia, Malta, Tajikistan, Vietnam, Paraguay, Cayman Islands, Saint Helena, Cyprus, Rwanda, Seychelles, Australia, Bangladesh, Austria, Sri Lanka, Zimbabwe, Gabon Republic, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Cote d Ivoire (Ivory Coast), Norway, Kiribati, Turkmenistan, Greece, Grenada, Haiti, Greenland, Yemen, Afghanistan, Montenegro, Africa, Mongolia, Nepal, Bahrain, Bahamas, Asia, Svalbard and Jan Mayen, United Kingdom, Dominica, Hungary, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Angola, South America, Southeast Asia, Western Samoa, France, Mozambique, Namibia, Peru, Central America and Caribbean, Guatemala, Denmark, Vatican City State, Solomon Islands, Sierra Leone, Nauru, French Guiana, Anguilla, El Salvador, Guam, Micronesia, Dominican Republic, Cameroon, Guyana, Azerbaijan Republic, Macau, Georgia, Tonga, New Caledonia, San Marino, Eritrea, Saint Kitts-Nevis, Morocco, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Belarus, Europe, Mauritania, Belize, Philippines, Uruguay, Congo, Democratic Republic of the, Western Sahara, Congo, Republic of the, French Polynesia, Cook Islands, Colombia, Comoros, Spain, Estonia, Bermuda, Montserrat, Korea, South, Zambia, Somalia, Vanuatu, Ecuador, Albania, Monaco, Guernsey, Ethiopia, Laos, Niger, Venezuela, Ghana, Cape Verde Islands, Martinique, Moldova, Saint Pierre and Miquelon, Madagascar, Lebanon, Liberia, Bolivia, Maldives, Gibraltar, Libya, Hong Kong, Central African Republic, Lesotho, Nigeria, Saint Lucia, Mauritius, Guinea, Jordan, Canada, British Virgin Islands, Turks and Caicos Islands, Chad, Andorra, Romania, Costa Rica, India, Mexico, Serbia, Kazakhstan, Netherlands Antilles, Saudi Arabia, Japan, Lithuania, Trinidad and Tobago, Palau, Malawi, Nicaragua, Finland, Tunisia, Luxembourg, Uganda, Brazil, Turkey, Barbados, Germany, Tuvalu, Jamaica, Latvia, Egypt, Niue, Honduras, Brunei Darussalam, Virgin Islands (U.S.), South Africa[/size]


----------



## vaulter1

If anyone is looking for some [size=x-small]*GE 6AK5 *tubes, I just picked up a few from this ebay ad: http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-JAN-5654W-GE-6AK5-Vacuum-Tube-NOS-Grey-O-Getter-/200587162860?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2eb3ed34ec#ht_804wt_1180 which at $10+ shipping seemed like a good deal - and he still has some.  I did clarify that the $10 is for *2 Tubes* and it looks like he's got all positive feedback. [/size]


----------



## Kukuk

Bumpan'.
   
  Just impulse bought a LM4562 op-amp because... Well, why not? It'll be interesting to see how much of a difference it makes.


----------



## Quimi

Hi, 
The 2107 is safe to use?
Does offset dangerous?


----------



## shipsupt

quimi said:


> Hi,
> The 2107 is safe to use?
> Does offset dangerous?




Yes, those that tested the 2107 found the DC offset within spec. And it sounds good too.


----------



## Quimi

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Yes, those that tested the 2107 found the DC offset within spec. And it sounds good too.


 


I am testing (2107)

I notice a slight noise in quiet passages.

I do not know if distortion or DC.

Greetings.


----------



## john57

Quote: 





quimi said:


> I am testing (2107)
> 
> I notice a slight noise in quiet passages.
> 
> ...


 


  It can be tubes, source, recording tape noise or RF intererence and it is not distortion. DC does not have a freqency to hear.


----------



## Quimi

Quote: 





john57 said:


> It can be tubes, source, recording tape noise or RF intererence and it is not distortion. DC does not have a freqency to hear.


 


  Ok, thanks.


----------



## Quimi

I see no one has used the 4556, using the RA1 and their clones.


----------



## Melvins

Any really nice op amps that sound good with the tubes in my signature that someone would wanna recommend me?


----------



## jommy999

after long research and i want to have some fun with tube amp ,im now planning to get little dot 1+ for my Senn HD598 
   
  1. Little Dot I+ ( I was planning to get The Little Dot MX II but the Dot I+ will be enough for my cans  )
  2. for upgrade opamps ( OPA2107AP, LM4562 and LT1364CN8 but 2107 is my first choice but will have the other 2 just for fun to try them out )
  3. for tubes ( WE408A , Mullard M8100/CV4010 and Mullard M8161/CV4015 : i don't think i can afford to try Sylvnia GB408A but that would be my first choice to try  )
   
  by the way Hello The Little Dot I+ owners . i'll join you guys soon. ( just email David today )


----------



## shipsupt

Welcome. Looks like you've done some research and have a great plan to explore some good listening with your I+!







jommy999 said:


> after long research and i want to have some fun with tube amp ,im now planning to get little dot 1+ for my Senn HD598
> 
> 1. Little Dot I+ ( I was planning to get The Little Dot MX II but the Dot I+ will be enough for my cans  )
> 2. for upgrade opamps ( OPA2107AP, LM4562 and LT1364CN8 but 2107 is my first choice but will have the other 2 just for fun to try them out )
> ...


----------



## jommy999

already ordered one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 hope will get the amp next week  but i have been spending some opamps and tubes already today lol ( even before i get the unit itself ) .I add the EF91 on my list too ( another Mullard one ) . oh i found Russian EF95 gold pins on ebay and  look interesting anyone try them before ? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130612521675?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_4231wt_1163
   
ps. i come to join the LD I+ too late and seem that not many ppl active here anymore ,oh well .  ( late better than never i guess )


----------



## shipsupt

I havn't seen those, they look interesting! If you get them let us know how they sound.

Don't worry, there are still plenty of us out here, and the I+ is a great little amp!


----------



## john57

You can get those tubes cheaper here.
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-pc-6J1P-EV-EF95-6F32-6AK7-Gold-Platinum-grid-NIB-/130436695928?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1e5ea20778


----------



## jommy999

Quote: 





john57 said:


> You can get those tubes cheaper here.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-pc-6J1P-EV-EF95-6F32-6AK7-Gold-Platinum-grid-NIB-/130436695928?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1e5ea20778


 


  Thank you. much cheaper without the gold pins thing ... not sure if the sound gonna be any different.


----------



## jommy999

i have a question to ask ,some tube got JAN front of type of tube like JAN-6AK5 , does the tube same as just 6AK5 ? or they do have different type of tube name JAN-6AK5 ?
   
  thing is i just bought ( made low offered on ebay and he accepted it ) 1943's Tung Sol JAN-6AK5  which i hope they work with the lttle dot I+
   
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/120765402902?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_2494wt_1163


----------



## GotNoRice

"JAN" = "Joint Army Navy"
   
  It simply means the tubes were originally manufactured for military use.  Generally speaking this is a good thing as they are subject to tighter quality control.


----------



## willmax

Quote: 





john57 said:


> You can get those tubes cheaper here.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-pc-6J1P-EV-EF95-6F32-6AK7-Gold-Platinum-grid-NIB-/130436695928?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1e5ea20778


 


  These ones are cheaper but the seller does not say whether the tubes are matched pairs which is very important in terms of sound quality and balance.


----------



## shipsupt

The I+ is does not mind mildly mismatched tubes because of its hybrid design. I use tubes from batches all the time without matching them with no effect on SQ. I also question what many of the eBay sellers actually do to match...


----------



## john57

*[size=medium]These ones are cheaper but the seller does not say whether the tubes are matched pairs which are very important in terms of sound quality and balance.[/size]*
   
  [size=medium]It is not as important as you think. When dealing with new tubes I generally do not pay much attention to how carefully the tubes will match. One of many reasons is because tube testers have no way of knowing what voltages and current levels that the tube will run in the circuit. Even then the tubes that are carefully matched do not age in the same way. Since the Little Dot 1+ does not have a stepped pot for volume and that can cause more of a balance issue that of the new tubes. I have more issues from Ebay sellers with tubes with high leakage that can cause humming and shorts than mismatch NOS tubes. [/size]


----------



## jommy999

Thank you for all the info.
   
  so far i bought 
  Opamps : 2107AP and LT1364CN8 ( i think i wait and try them both first then might get the LM4562 later )
   
  All 3 tubes type ,
  EF95 : Tung sol and Voshkod
  EF91 : Mullard
  408A  : Sylvnia GB408A goldpins ( yeah i decided to get them, hope it will be well spend)
   
  now only wait for them to delivery this week and LD1+ too
   
   
  ps. i hold off the M8100 and M8161 for now as i already spent over budget..... my wallet is so empty 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  thx you John57 and shipsupt . i bought some tubes which the seller don't say they match or not and much cheaper


----------



## Melvins

which op amps pair best with rock N roll?


----------



## Quimi

Has anyone tried the 4556?


----------



## Magick Man

Got in the LD 1+ for my dad's birthday and I'm very impressed. This sucker really packs a punch, and adds a beautiful texture and fluidity, and that's with the crappy stock Chinese 6JI tubes! I can't believe this little guy sounds so good for only $130 shipped! Can't wait to get in the Voskhods I ordered for it, should be in later this week.

<$150 for this, WTH? Are you kidding me?


----------



## haejuk

I just ordered some of the Soviet Russian tubes for my LDI+.  I am also looking into rolling the opamp to a LT1364.  I just have one question: does changing the opamp change the output impedance?  I know that this amp was designed to drive low impedance headphones like Denons, so if a LT1364 were to raise the output impedance I would not like to do that.  Can anyone help me with that?


----------



## john57

No changing the Op-amp will not change the output impedance. It is the BD139 and BD140 transistors that is driving the output.
  The tube drives the op-amp and the op-amp drives the bipolar BD139 and BD140 to the ouput.


----------



## haejuk

Thanks very much!  I guess I will roll the opamp and the tubes as soon as they come in.


----------



## jommy999

the wait is killing me eheh. anyone ordered from David ? i have placed LD1+ about 6 days ago but still haven't get any delivery tracking number yet.  How long you guys wait for the unit to delivered? Thanks


----------



## Johmem

Quote: 





jommy999 said:


> the wait is killing me eheh. anyone ordered from David ? i have placed LD1+ about 6 days ago but still haven't get any delivery tracking number yet.  How long you guys wait for the unit to delivered? Thanks


 


 I recently ordered one from David as well.  I also waited 6-7 days for a tracking number.  I got impatient and sent him an email inquiring whether it had shipped yet....he sent tracking number and shipped that day.  I would send him an email.


----------



## Jobie111

Quote: 





jommy999 said:


> the wait is killing me eheh. anyone ordered from David ? i have placed LD1+ about 6 days ago but still haven't get any delivery tracking number yet.  How long you guys wait for the unit to delivered? Thanks


 


  That's about how long I waited before it shipped and I got a number.  The actual shipment took so short though, that I actually got the package before I got the tracking number!


----------



## jommy999

Quote: 





johmem said:


> I recently ordered one from David as well.  I also waited 6-7 days for a tracking number.  I got impatient and sent him an email inquiring whether it had shipped yet....he sent tracking number and shipped that day.  I would send him an email.


 

 Thank you , i have send him an email too . heheh and i got the tracking and shipped yesterday( same day i sent email ) . now showing that LD1+ at london heathrow now.


----------



## Magick Man

BTW, I drove my HE-6 with a Little Dot I+ on high gain. I had to really crank it to get a decent volume, but nothing exploded and it sounded quite nice. 


Also, I rolled in a OPA2107AP and the difference is noticeable, it has a lower noise floor and blacker background. I believe it sounds more transparent too. For the cost, which is free if you ask TI for samples, it's well worth it.


----------



## Melvins

whose TI?


----------



## Magick Man

Texas Instruments

http://www.ti.com/product/opa2107


----------



## Melvins

so you just ask em for one and they send you one? Free? I'm just using the op amp the LD1+ came with, would it be wise for me to ask them for one? Does it really make a huge difference? especially considering the fact that I have upgraded tubes


----------



## john57

Is that interesting that you are getting enough volume from the Little dot 1+ to drive the HE-6. The OPA2107AP makes a noticeable but not necessary a huge difference that I like.


----------



## Melvins

right, so I have to sign up for IT and then they ship me one? It seems to take like 4-8 weeks though O.O.


----------



## Magick Man

melvins said:


> so you just ask em for one and they send you one? Free? I'm just using the op amp the LD1+ came with, would it be wise for me to ask them for one? Does it really make a huge difference? especially considering the fact that I have upgraded tubes



Made a difference for me, and not in some mystical way either. I can actually hear a difference in background noise.

Yes, go to that page and click the Sample/Buy button. You put in your name and address and they'll send you a sample. I just told them it was for Home Audio, which is true.


john57 said:


> Is that interesting that you are getting enough volume from the Little dot 1+ to drive the HE-6. The OPA2107AP makes a noticeable but not necessary a huge difference that I like.




Yes, it will actually drive the HE-6s. There's not really any headroom, and it's likely pushing it to the max it will do without clipping, but it sounds good.



melvins said:


> right, so I have to sign up for IT and then they ship me one? It seems to take like 4-8 weeks though O.O.



Took 3 days to get mine, they shipped it via FedEx ground. You in the USA? Also, you can request up to three, which is what I did. Figure it doesn't hurt to have spares.


----------



## Melvins

haha awesome. looks like I'll be doing that. And yeap. in the USA


----------



## Melvins

do I have to change anything in my LD1+ when I change op amps?


----------



## Melvins

and its the OPA2107AP?


----------



## Magick Man

Yeah, the OPA2107AP. Don't have to change anything, just be careful pulling it out, and make sure all the pins line up putting the new one in.


----------



## Melvins

ordered! haha awesome, thanks guys


----------



## jommy999

Got my LD1+ today . roll the GB408A tubes and LT1364 opamp in ,,,, need to wait and burn in for a bit but so far so good. a little less bass than straight out from my soundcard ( just bought the Asus Xonar DX ) , im waiting for my OPA2107 to turn up and i hope will give a little more bass ( i could add bass on soundcard setting but somehow lost details of sound ) . 
will give more result in few days when everything settle. Happy Day !!! 





   
  update : i rolled the E91 mullard CV4010 in and sound better and more bass than GB408A ... its like 5 times cheaper and seem like doing better job lol. but too early to tell i guess. will need to burn them in properly first.


----------



## jommy999

5 Days of LD1+ results ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Opamps battle : LT1364 VS OPA2107 
  - both giving similar sound overall 
  - LT1364 more details in mid-range 
  - OPA2107 more bass and a little better soundstage ( but both are great )
   
  Tubes battle : Mullard EF91 VS Sylvania goldpins GB408A VS Voshkod goldpins EF95  
   
  - before burning them in - EF91  give better sound ,details , bass ,soundstage, etc than GB408A but after few days of burning then in ,the 408A is now sound so much better with nice Bass impact ( could feel it full bass impact ) , great vocal and soundstage too therefore the GB408A is a winner here ( i believe it will even get better after 100 hrs or 200 hrs )
   
  - i got Voshkod only yesterday and now in the process of burning them in. so far so good ,better soundstage than GB408A, sound so clear ,warm , vocal as good as GB408A ( not sure if anything to do with goldpins as both are ( sound so pure and clear ,the vocal sound is so standing out ) but now the bass is not as good as GB408A but i believe it will get better after few days. lets see and i'll give more update
   
  ps. i actually have rolled in Tung Sol 6AK5 too but only for one hr . it picked up so much noise and i just didn't want to give it a go any further lol so i can't really give any comment about them.


----------



## GotNoRice

Wasn't the LT1364 the opamp everyone was avoiding because of the horrible DC offset?
   
  I'd love to hear your opinion of the LM4562 if you ever get one.


----------



## john57

_OPA2107 more bass and a little better soundstage ( but both are great )_
   
  That is what I like about the OPA2107 great soundstage.


----------



## jommy999

Quote: 





gotnorice said:


> Wasn't the LT1364 the opamp everyone was avoiding because of the horrible DC offset?
> 
> I'd love to hear your opinion of the LM4562 if you ever get one.


 


  yes that one but actually noone report any problem really , just the test that the guy did and think it might damage the headphone but i give it a go. seem alright so far .
   
  about the soundstage of  both opamps as i have tested both on GB408A ( after burning in for 3 days and try to listening carefully ) so basicly both give really similar sound ( or both are great ^_^ , sorry to stock opamp lol ) so therefore i would say its depend on the combination with the tubes.
   
  now my set is OPA2107 with  Voshkod EF95 ... warm tube sound , pure and clear vocal ,great soundstage and just mmm kinda my ears are liking the sound somehow( my Acoustic songs collection could not sound any better ) but its still in burning in process i think these will be my favorite tubes yet.


----------



## Melvins

anyone have any op amps they no longer need? or use? and wanna sell me


----------



## jommy999

Quote: 





melvins said:


> anyone have any op amps they no longer need? or use? and wanna sell me


 


  I live in UK ,i got both my opamp from their site as sample which they sent from USA , i thought you have order some sample. ( i got them like 3 days after ordered )
   
  i got some spare but i think easier for you just order sample from their site and they send via Fedex


----------



## Melvins

what site? is this from Texas instruments? they wouldn't send me samples because I don't have a university or a company e mail


----------



## jommy999

yes . i just put my University name ( u can put any company name in really like ' Melvins Tube Amp ltd ' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) with my hotmail email address  and delivery to my home address.
  just picked the choice what you need it for. ( i picked one that for wireless amp ) .
   
  or can order from this guy 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Burr-Brown-OPA2107-precision-dual-difet-operational-amplifier-dip-8-pin-pkg?item=260897994778&cmd=ViewItem&_trksid=p5197.m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D5%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D7170761463989517618#ht_680wt_1139
   
  i bought from him as well before i knew about sample site.


----------



## Melvins

they said they needed an email address though? Like a university email.


----------



## jommy999

i have never get any contact back from them , after register and ordered then i get email confirmation ( with my hotmail.com ) i've never give any other email. mm not sure why they did ask you for that . but order with the guy on ebay link i gave you . i tried his opamp and seem to be alright  ( heard that cheap opamp on ebay  from china some are fake )


----------



## Melvins

is it worth the 7 bucks? does it make that much of a difference?


----------



## jommy999

i think most ppl think its better . i heard few of ppl say that they like stock opamp more than the 2107.
  for me stock opamp is actually good too but i don't feel the impact of sound. how to say, its like i could listening to my acoustic collection with stock opamp and fallsleep on it ,
to be honest after i tried LT1364 then i have never change back to stock opamp so i never really compare stock opamp with the 2107 yet.
   
  ps.i would send you one if i live in US.


----------



## Melvins

not worth my time it sounds like


----------



## jommy999

yeah it won't be like night and day so if you happy with stock opamp then no need to change.


----------



## qwasqasw

wow sexy!!!


----------



## Melvins

I mean I don't really feel like I need anything else, especially when I have a spankin new pair of cans in da mail


----------



## Magick Man

So, I bought this LD I+ for my dad's birthday, but I ended up keeping it for myself and ordering another one for him.  Amazing little amp, especially with the OPA2107 and Voskhod 6J1Ps. Its super-low noise floor and rich harmonics are unreal for an amp in this price range. I was mentioning in another thread, the LD I+/Rastapants combo is almost narcotic.


----------



## Melvins

I've only ever used with Grado's, and well my new magnums, what are the rastapants?


----------



## Magick Man

melvins said:


> I've only ever used with Grado's, and well my new magnums, what are the rastapants?




http://www.head-fi.org/a/fostex-t50rp-modification-summary-links-wiki


----------



## Melvins

Good god. that's crazy. Do you know where the name derives from?


----------



## beekermartin

I bought a LD i+ of off Ebay last week.  I should be receiving it this week.  It supposedly has only been used twice and is completely stock. 
   
  I am up to page 27 of this thread.  I have a few questions that I hope I get some answers to by the time I finish reading the entire thread. 
   
  I am going to be using the amp with AKG Q701's and HD280's.  I will be mainly using the q701's. 
  
  What tubes and op amp combo would you recommend for the Q701's?  I don't want to spend a lot if I don't have to but if there is a combo that is worth the extra money then I will consider it.  I mainly listen to rock (Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, Jeff Beck, etc)  I know the 701's aren't known for bass so tubes and a op amp than can help in that department might be a good idea.   
   
  What do you guys think?


----------



## sssboa

Quote: 





beekermartin said:


> I bought a LD i+ of off Ebay last week.  I should be receiving it this week.  It supposedly has only been used twice and is completely stock.
> 
> I am up to page 27 of this thread.  I have a few questions that I hope I get some answers to by the time I finish reading the entire thread.
> 
> ...


 

 You won't get more bass than with Mullard CV4010. I have LD MKII and used them as driver tubes but were too bassy with Beyerdynamic DT880 600 ohm. I think I tried all tubes, tube rolling gives more sq change than opamp rolling that is waste of time and money rather. I just stay away from Burr Brown opams cause they have no highs and are slow and muddy though most people prefer them over anything else. MC33078 is a very good neutral crisp opamp, LM5962 is same type but better if the amp was constucted with LM in mind. AD (Analog Devices) are usually similar to BB OPA
   
  ... But on the other hand EF95 tubes may be total mismatch with q701 and may destroy the soundstage allthough giving you that bass, my q701 sounded bad with MK II and ef95 (I did not try with other tubes), they lost the airyness and soundstage, and why have q701 if not for soundstage and air, bettter buy different headphones. If this is the case you may try also mullard but EF92 the ones of military spec, M8161 or so, they are natural with solid bass but without that warmth and fullness of ef95 (CV4010 being an extreme case) that may mess up AKG sound. Most neutral sounding ef95 are American GE JAN, those given as stock with MK III, very well balanced between soundstage and detail, tung-sol are more towards soundstage, RCA JAN towards detail, Russian Voshod have forwarded mids. All EF91 have little bass.


----------



## beekermartin

I plan on sticking with the stock setup for awhile.  I broke in the Q701's for about a 100 hours already.  I will break in the LD i+ for @50 hours before I give it a serious listen.  Once I've had a chance to listen to a few hours of my favorite music I will post my impressions.  At that point I should be able to narrow down what tubes and opamps I should consider.


----------



## beekermartin

I finished reading this entire thread but I didn't find an exact answer of what is universally considered to be the best overall tubes or opamp.  I didn't think I would but I was hoping to narrow it down based on different headphones being used.  It seems that trying different tubes and opamps is really the only way to figure out what works best for each person.  I don't want to spend a ton of money on tubes and opamps though.  I'll keep reading other threads and hopefully narrow down what should work best with the AKG Q701's.


----------



## Magick Man

I settled on some early 60s Voskhod 6J1Ps and the OPA2107AP. The opamp didn't add anything, but it took away some low level noise. The Voskhods are hardcore, very well made mil-spec tubes. They had to be, they were used in missiles that would have been used to bomb us.  Soundwise, they're tight and controlled with excellent texture and not overly "warm". I prefer them over Mullards or anything else I've tried.


----------



## beekermartin

Like these Magick Man?:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/6J1P-GOLD-GRID-EF95-6AK5-VOSKHOD-MATCHED-PAIR-TUBE-60s-MILITARY-/251024280396?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3a72368b4c


----------



## Magick Man

Yes, in fact that's the seller I bought them from.


----------



## roman r

an anyone please help out a newbie
   
  [size=x-large][size=10pt]I've recently purchased from ebay a  Little Dot Mk1+  with EF92 and 408A tubes[/size][/size]
   
  Question is do they share the same jumper settings and what would it be - didn't get a manual and can't seem to find one on the web.


----------



## roman r

Quote: 





roman r said:


> an anyone please help out a newbie
> 
> [size=x-large][size=10pt]I've recently purchased from ebay a  Little Dot Mk1+  with EF92 and 408A tubes[/size][/size]
> 
> Question is do they share the same jumper settings and what would it be - didn't get a manual and can't seem to find one on the web.


 


  Actually I found this info on the little dot site.
   
  But one question is what gain setting 3.5x or 7x for my 32ohm Grados ?
   
  Thanks in advance


----------



## Johmem

3.5 is the gain you want.  Grados are sensitive.


----------



## HeyWaj10

Is 3.5 that recommended gain for Denon D2K's as well? I figure it is, but just checking.

  
  Quote: 





johmem said:


> 3.5 is the gain you want.  Grados are sensitive.


----------



## beekermartin

Usually when it comes to gain you want to use the lowest setting that gives you the volume you want.  Start with the lowest gain then raise it if the volume isn't loud enough or you have to crank the volume all the way up.
   
  With that said you can always try both and decide what sounds best to you.


----------



## beekermartin

Quote: 





magick man said:


> I settled on some early 60s Voskhod 6J1Ps and the OPA2107AP. The opamp didn't add anything, but it took away some low level noise. The Voskhods are hardcore, very well made mil-spec tubes. They had to be, they were used in missiles that would have been used to bomb us.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 I meant to ask you, do you use those tubes and opamp with your 701's?  You have a few headphones listed in your sig.  I want to make sure you tried the 701's with the LD I+ using the stock tubes and opamp as well as the Voskhod tubes and 2107 opamp.  I am considering ordering both since they are so cheap.


----------



## Magick Man

beekermartin said:


> I meant to ask you, do you use those tubes and opamp with your 701's?  You have a few headphones listed in your sig.  I want to make sure you tried the 701's with the LD I+ using the stock tubes and opamp as well as the Voskhod tubes and 2107 opamp.  I am considering ordering both since they are so cheap.




Yes, I did. It still sounded very good, the swaps simply made it better.

On a side note, if you want a grittier more textured sound, set the gain on High. It will introduce a very small amount of background fuzz, but it's actually kind of interesting and fun.


----------



## beekermartin

I ordered a set of the Voskhod tubes.  I am now gonna order the opamp 2107.  Is this the correct item?:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/260897994778?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
   
  I haven't received the LD I+ yet! I figure for @ $25 it was worth it to have a set of tubes and a opamp on hand to try swapping after I've tested it stock.


----------



## john57

that is the correct opamp package style


----------



## sssboa

Quote: 





magick man said:


> Yes, in fact that's the seller I bought them from.


 
  These tubes had always been sold in plain military boxes from the '80. These particular ones are from the '60 and have export civilian boxes. I wonder do they have black plates inside or grey? Do they sound different than the ones from the '80 (those have grey plates)? The '80s ones have accentuated mids as no other and are very crisp and detailed when compared to most tubes.


----------



## Focker

Hey all...just got my LDI+ today...I'm thoroughly impressed with the build quality, and so far with just the stock tubes things are sounding pretty good...actually REALLY good considering the price tag and excellent customer service. I have some Telefunken tubes arriving tomorrow or Saturday, so those will be first up for rolling. Looking forward to reading back through this thread to find more great ideas that you guys have posted about. I got this specifically for my bedroom Grado system, and I think it's going to be a great little rig.
   
  I will definitely buy from David again, though...this is impressive value.


----------



## Magick Man

sssboa said:


> These tubes had always been sold in plain military boxes from the '80. These particular ones are from the '60 and have export civilian boxes. I wonder do they have black plates inside or grey? Do they sound different than the ones from the '80 (those have grey plates)? The '80s ones have accentuated mids as no other and are very crisp and detailed when compared to most tubes.




They have black plates. I actually prefer the 60s Voskhods; they have wonderful detailed highs and powerful sub-bass. They have a better sound texture overall, IMO.



focker said:


> Hey all...just got my LDI+ today...I'm thoroughly impressed with the build quality, and so far with just the stock tubes things are sounding pretty good...actually REALLY good considering the price tag and excellent customer service. I have some Telefunken tubes arriving tomorrow or Saturday, so those will be first up for rolling. Looking forward to reading back through this thread to find more great ideas that you guys have posted about. I got this specifically for my bedroom Grado system, and I think it's going to be a great little rig.
> 
> I will definitely buy from David again, though...this is impressive value.



No kidding. Built like a brick, isn't it? The weight of it surprised me, relative to its size.


----------



## Melvins

Such a beautiful device.


----------



## MattTCG

Got mine on the way. What tubes are recommended for the d2k?


----------



## beekermartin

I just received my Litte Dot i+ this evening. It is stock, as far as I know, and I assume the gain is in the stock "low" setting. I am going to pull it apart tomorrow and verify that. Anyway, I connected it to my Oppo BDP-80 and AKG Q701s. I only listened for a few minutes. It does sound very good. The only thing that took me by suprise is that I have to turn the volume up past halfway to get decent volume. In fact I was able to turn it all the way up and it was loud but not extremely loud. Does that sound about right for the LD i+ and the 701's?
   
  I am going to check on the gain setting tomorrow. If it is on low I will try the high setting to see if that helps with the volume. Don't get me wrong. It is loud enough at the highest setting but I didn't think I would be able to listen with it set that high without it being painful. 
   
  BTW, I did receive the new opamp but I have no intentions of changing the opamp or the tubes until I give the stock setup a fair listen to.


----------



## MattTCG

I would say that you need to change the gain setting. Typically you'd want to listen between 9 and 12. If you can turn it all the way up and it not be too loud then I would increase the gain. Did you notice any clipping when you turned it all the way up?


----------



## beekermartin

I didn't notice any clipping. It sounded clean even at 100%. It was loud at 100% but it wasnt so loud that it hurt my ears.


----------



## MattTCG

The rule of thumb is to using the lowest gain that gives you the volume that you are comfortable with. High gain will give you more volume but not better sound. Don't know about how you like to listen but medium is about as loud as I go.


----------



## beekermartin

I will try the high gain setting and see what happens.


----------



## Melvins

Quote: 





magick man said:


> So, I bought this LD I+ for my dad's birthday, but I ended up keeping it for myself and ordering another one for him.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  OPA2107 was just purchased by yours truly. I have some Voshod's too, am jazzed to see what the combination sounds like. Although the effect of my LD on my magnums is less noticeable then my old grados,


----------



## beekermartin

I tried the high gain setting and the volume is much louder. At @50-60% it is right around the perfect volume. I am going to leave it at the high gain setting.
   
  On another note I am hearing some distortion in the left channel. It is minor but it sounds like a slightly blown driver. I am going to contact AKG to see if they will replace them under warranty. I've only had them for about two weeks and all I did was leave them playing at low volume for a week or so. I noticed that same distortion using my computers sound card and I assumed the distortion was caused by the soundcard. Unfortunately there appears to be a defect in my 701's. Hopefully AKG is easy to deal with.


----------



## sssboa

To all Little Dot I+ users.
   
  Does it make sense to buy it if I already have Little Dot MK II and also a few  transistor headphone amplifiers? Does it sound more like transistor or like tube?
   
  Andy


----------



## Focker

Last night I hooked up my T1s to the I+ and was surprised to see that the LD drove them quite well. I ended up at around 1-2 o'clock on the volume, but it sounded great. I can't get over this amp costing a buck-o-nine.


----------



## sssboa

Quote: 





focker said:


> Last night I hooked up my T1s to the I+ and was surprised to see that the LD drove them quite well. I ended up at around 1-2 o'clock on the volume, but it sounded great. I can't get over this amp costing a buck-o-nine.


 

 Which amps do you normally use for T1? And at what position do u leave the volume knob?
  Andy


----------



## Focker

Quote: 





sssboa said:


> Which amps do you normally use for T1? And at what position do u leave the volume knob?
> Andy


 


  I specifically bought the Meier Jazz for my Beyer cans....so I use the Jazz in high gain setting for the T1s. Typically the Jazz is at about 10-11.


----------



## sssboa

Quote: 





focker said:


> I specifically bought the Meier Jazz for my Beyer cans....so I use the Jazz in high gain setting for the T1s. Typically the Jazz is at about 10-11.


 

 Is it better than Beyerdynamic A1 amp? Is it as neutral/bright? I avoid dark sound like Lehmann's.


----------



## Focker

Quote: 





sssboa said:


> Is it better than Beyerdynamic A1 amp? Is it as neutral/bright? I avoid dark sound like Lehmann's.


 

 I honestly don't have enough time on them yet to speak to the differences. I am using the same source for both amps, and both are essentially solid state with a tube buffer stage (I have a tube buffer on the meier signal path). Initial impressions are that the Meier amp has more complete control of the T1s, but with my Grado 325s it's more of a draw. I don't plan to use the LD for driving the T1s on a regular basis, I was just curious how well it could do the job. I'd probably move to another LD amp to do that. I don't think I'd characterize the sound on either amp as dark, though.


----------



## stellar

I'd just like to say the D2K & Little Dot 1+ combo is amazing. I felt the Denon's had a lot of clarity but was missing something on the lower end, and the LD1+ fills up that absence. 
   
  There's probably several answers in this thread, but can anyone recommend some next tubes to get to go with Denons?


----------



## Focker

Quote: 





stellar said:


> I'd just like to say the D2K & Little Dot 1+ combo is amazing. I felt the Denon's had a lot of clarity but was missing something on the lower end, and the LD1+ fills up that absence.
> 
> There's probably several answers in this thread, but can anyone recommend some next tubes to get to go with Denons?


 
   
  If you want to ask an expert about that, send an email to Brendan at Tubeworld.com  He's re-tubed hundreds of Little Dot amps and knows them like the back of his hand. If you ask him for some suggestions, he'll send you an email back in no time with a few different price points. I've been taking his recommendations for the last five or six years and he's always provided excellent advice and service. Great choice of amp, by the way....the LD 1+ is just a ridiculous value.


----------



## marts30

Is my little dot dead? I removed the old opamp to put in a 2107 and one of the bronze pins came loose... I pushed it back down and put the opamp in but it only emits a buzz/hum :/


----------



## john57

Remove the 2107 and make sure all pins are line up and straight. Check the notch or mark on the op-amp lines up with the mark on the socket. Otherwise you could put the original Op-amp back in.


----------



## marts30

Just tried again, plugged in my MS2 and they killed the right channel...
   
  what a day :/


----------



## marts30

Anyone? Didn't honestly think a dodgy opamp could kill my pair of headphones... now my little dot is dead too GGGGGG


----------



## shipsupt

Do you have anything else to plug the headphones into to see if they really got damaged or if it's just the amp?


----------



## marts30

Tried 3 different sources and the right channel is totally distorted/barely any volume. Already sent them back for repair 
  Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Do you have anything else to plug the headphones into to see if they really got damaged or if it's just the amp?


----------



## willmax

Quote: 





marts30 said:


> Just tried again, plugged in my MS2 and they killed the right channel...
> 
> what a day :/


 
   
  Sorry to hear about that mate, very unfortunate indeed.
   
  Thanks for sharing your misfortune though, it makes for a timely reminder that one should always check new/second hand/ modded gear before plugging ones' premium cans to it.
   
  I have a cheap nasty pair of headphones that I got as a gift from a supplier, I always use it as a Guinea Pig before plugging my Grados.


----------



## marts30

Quote: 





willmax said:


> Sorry to hear about that mate, very unfortunate indeed.
> 
> Thanks for sharing your misfortune though, it makes for a timely reminder that one should always check new/second hand/ modded gear before plugging ones' premium cans to it.
> 
> I have a cheap nasty pair of headphones that I got as a gift from a supplier, I always use it as a Guinea Pig before plugging my Grados.


 
   
  Yeah, lesson has been well and truly learnt! haha. When I tried it again I used some $20 skullcandy's  If there was any luck it was that it was my MS2 which I purchased new, my other phones have been 2nd hand so would be far harder to get repaired.
   
  In future I'll stick to modding tubes only I think... I have owend a LD I+ before and changed the opamp no problem, this time wasn't so kind.


----------



## shipsupt

Total bummer.  I've not heard of anyone else having a similar issue with the I+ and swapping opamps, so seems to be just a really unfortunate event.
   
  Quote: 





marts30 said:


> Yeah, lesson has been well and truly learnt! haha. When I tried it again I used some $20 skullcandy's  If there was any luck it was that it was my MS2 which I purchased new, my other phones have been 2nd hand so would be far harder to get repaired.
> 
> In future I'll stick to modding tubes only I think... I have owend a LD I+ before and changed the opamp no problem, this time wasn't so kind.


----------



## john57

I had bad tubes in the past that was howling and almost blew out my headphones. If you have changed op-amps in the past I believe the risk would be low. There is a risk of static electricity as well.


----------



## Melvins

wow, thank goodness that didn't happen to my can's when I changed my op-amps


----------



## SoItGoes

Just ordered this amp and I am unbelievably pumped for it to arrive. I got the stock kit, but I'm thinking of rolling with the Ef91's and Opa2107. I am curious though, does anyone else here use Magnums? That's what I'm planning on using for this amp, and as we all know, the sound on those headphones is a pretty different beast compared to Grados. Have you Magnum users found a really successful tube/opamp pairing for these headphones that deviates from what's already been found for Grados?


----------



## Melvins

Magnums sound great with the LD. Check out the OP-amp and tubes I use. The opamp honestly does not offer that much improvement over stock, but I mean, it can never hurt, ya know! Ha, what type of wood are your magnums in? What music do you tend to listen to? I can attest that the tubes I'm using are some of the more highly regarded ones, but I only ever used a generic type of EF92's which I purchased directly from LD as an upgrade. Enjoy man, you may not realize how much the LD adds to the sound of your magnum until you take away the LD, than you realize all the reverb and bass response the amp added. It's really sweet. ha.


----------



## Melvins

The new BBNG sounds perfect with the LD! Jazz accompanies tube amps beautifully. Sort of made for one another...really..


----------



## SoItGoes

Hmm. EF95's. I'll definitely look into that. Right now I'm using some v4's in Macassar Ebony cups. I'm building my final pair sometime next month and those will be in Cocobolo. Also, I'd say I listen to just about everything (I'm somewhat of a music nerd), but I tend to sway more towards the acoustic side of the spectrum (rock, jazz as opposed to electronic and hip-hop) when it's just for pleasure and not "discovery." Oh yeah and BBNG rules! I'm almost reconsidering going on this vacation next week so I can just listen to this amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  Quote: 





melvins said:


> The new BBNG sounds perfect with the LD! Jazz accompanies tube amps beautifully. Sort of made for one another...really..


 
   
   
  Quote: 





melvins said:


> Magnums sound great with the LD. Check out the OP-amp and tubes I use. The opamp honestly does not offer that much improvement over stock, but I mean, it can never hurt, ya know! Ha, what type of wood are your magnums in? What music do you tend to listen to? I can attest that the tubes I'm using are some of the more highly regarded ones, but I only ever used a generic type of EF92's which I purchased directly from LD as an upgrade. Enjoy man, you may not realize how much the LD adds to the sound of your magnum until you take away the LD, than you realize all the reverb and bass response the amp added. It's really sweet. ha.


----------



## Melvins

lemme know how you like your LD's.


----------



## wje

I picked up a used LD I+ today, locally.  Still has the stock tubes and stock op-amp chip.  However, I plugged my Squeezebox (Burr-Brown DAC) into the amp and used my HifiMAN HE-400s with it.  The sound was excellent!   I don't have much of a hybrid amp background to compare it to, but I did have the HifiMAN EF-2A for a few months.  However, I fed it a signal from an iPod, which I realize now wasn't good at all.  I would have loved to hear the EF-2A with the Squeezebox.  However, I now need to lift the cover and check the position of the gain.  I'm running it at about 10 O'clock and the volume seems at a good level for me.
   
  More to follow as I read through this thread a bit more and look into some op-amp options.


----------



## Focker

Quote: 





wje said:


> I picked up a used LD I+ today, locally.  Still has the stock tubes and stock op-amp chip.  However, I plugged my Squeezebox (Burr-Brown DAC) into the amp and used my HifiMAN HE-400s with it.  The sound was excellent!   I don't have much of a hybrid amp background to compare it to, but I did have the HifiMAN EF-2A for a few months.  However, I fed it a signal from an iPod, which I realize now wasn't good at all.  I would have loved to hear the EF-2A with the Squeezebox.  However, I now need to lift the cover and check the position of the gain.  I'm running it at about 10 O'clock and the volume seems at a good level for me.
> 
> More to follow as I read through this thread a bit more and look into some op-amp options.


 
   
  Nice...sounds like a great pairing!


----------



## Rabu

Marts, My LDI+ was doing something similar. It would cut the right channel and no matter what I plugged them into it wouldn't come back.
   
  UNTIL, I decided to get desperate and plug them into my iPhone, my case prevented me from plugging them in all the way and I got a faint little buzz, and then all of a sudden the right channel came back, I don't know if that could work for yours, but apparently my iPhone is magic.
   
  I'd also like to add that this has only happened twice, and both times the amp was on for longer than 12 hours straight, so that could have also been a cause, don't know about your case.


----------



## Melvins

yeah you should not leave your amp on for that long at all.


----------



## Melvins

the LD, IMHO and limited opinion, seems to be one of the best bargains in the audiophile world. just a humble opinion of yours truly.


----------



## Focker

Quote: 





melvins said:


> the LD, IMHO and limited opinion, seems to be one of the best bargains in the audiophile world. just a humble opinion of yours truly.


 
   
  When I saw the build quality I was getting for such a cheap price, I was pretty floored. For budget audio, it's a no-brainer...especially for those who want to play around with tubes. All I did was upgrade to some $50 Telefunkens and my LD amp sounds fantastic.


----------



## spiderking31

Why would you not buy the mk3??


----------



## spiderking31

Your amp might be defective....


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote: 





melvins said:


> the LD, IMHO and limited opinion, seems to be one of the best bargains in the audiophile world. just a humble opinion of yours truly.


 
   
  Quote: 





focker said:


> When I saw the build quality I was getting for such a cheap price, I was pretty floored. For budget audio, it's a no-brainer...especially for those who want to play around with tubes. All I did was upgrade to some $50 Telefunkens and my LD amp sounds fantastic.


 
   
   
  I hear ya!!!  I have had both of mine for several years and love 'em with low impedance cans.  Three families of tubes, op-amp rolling, price, customer service etc......
   
  Winner indeed..
   
  Cheers


----------



## Melvins

your reviews and respect for it really motivated me to get it lol. indirectly of course, through what you said on the forums.


----------



## HeatFan12

lol...Thanks Melvins...
   
  I love this little amp...So much fun...I have one with the stock op-amp with EF91, EF92 tubes and the other with LT1364 op-amp with 408A tubes...Fun Fun Fun...
   
  Cheers


----------



## Focker

Quote: 





heatfan12 said:


> I hear ya!!!  I have had both of mine for several years and love 'em with low impedance cans.  Three families of tubes, op-amp rolling, price, customer service etc......
> 
> Winner indeed..
> 
> Cheers


 
   
  Yep, the customer service is fantastic. David is available via email and extrememly helpful throughout the entire process. I will definitley buy from him again...no question. 
   
  I'm really glad to know that yours are still up and running strong after several years...that doesn't surprise me in the least, though, given the quality of parts he uses. The thing is built like a tank!  I can't believe he doesn't charge more than what he does....but I'm glad he doesn't lol.


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote: 





focker said:


> Yep, the customer service is fantastic. David is available via email and extrememly helpful throughout the entire process. I will definitley buy from him again...no question.
> 
> I'm really glad to know that yours are still up and running strong after several years...that doesn't surprise me in the least, though, given the quality of parts he uses. The thing is built like a tank!  I can't believe he doesn't charge more than what he does....but I'm glad he doesn't lol.


 
   
   
  David is the man indeed Focker.  Excellent support!!!
   
  Some pics through the years of my LD I+ getting some love.  Good times!!!!!


----------



## Focker

Love seeing those beautiful RS-1s sitting next to the LD


----------



## RAZRr1275

I'm looking to spend about 60-70 dollars on tubes for this thing. I'm looking for two sets with different sound signatures or ones that specifically compliment my phones. I have AKG K702, Denon D2000 and grado sr80i. Which 2 of these 5 would you choose and what do they sound like? Are there any others you'd recommend?
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-MULLARD-CV4015-EF92-M8161-6065-RARE-MILSPEC-2-/221041395535?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item337718074f
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/M8100-CV4010-6AK5W-MULLARD-NOS-MATCHED-PAIR-/310282214423?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item483e42dc17#ht_500wt_1413
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tung-Sol-Mil-Spec-6AK5-5654-EF95-Little-Dot-Amp-Tubes-Matched-Pair-NOS-Tested-/251097150274?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3a768e7342#ht_2617wt_1396
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Voshkod-6ZH1P-EV-Matched-Pair-6AK5-EF95-403B-5654-/290613497784?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43a9ea0fb8#ht_1483wt_1163
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-matched-Sylvania-6AK5W-5654-6AK5-W-6096-6J1-tubes-Grey-Plate-Top-Getter-/360316500477?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item53e48979fd
   
   
  Thanks


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote: 





focker said:


> Love seeing those beautiful RS-1s sitting next to the LD


 
   
   
  The I+ loves the Grados indeed Focker...Thanks...
   
   
  Quote: 





razrr1275 said:


> I'm looking to spend about 60-70 dollars on tubes for this thing. I'm looking for two sets with different sound signatures or ones that specifically compliment my phones. I have AKG K702, Denon D2000 and grado sr80i. Which 2 of these 5 would you choose and what do they sound like? Are there any others you'd recommend?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-MULLARD-CV4015-EF92-M8161-6065-RARE-MILSPEC-2-/221041395535?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item337718074f
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  If I were to choose 2 from that list, I would go with #1 & #3 (EF92 & Tung Sol 6AK5W).  Both excellent tubes.  I also like the M8100 and that would be choice #3.
   
  Oops, sorry just saw your phones and can't comment because I don't own them.  However, those tubes are a great fit for various phones.


----------



## RAZRr1275

even if you guys haven't heard the phones i'd like to hear your recommendations anyway. These tubes all seem to get good reviews so i'm just interested in knowing sonic differences between them for the most part


----------



## analogue 3

Quote: 





focker said:


> Yep, the customer service is fantastic. David is available via email and extrememly helpful throughout the entire process. I will definitley buy from him again...no question.
> 
> I'm really glad to know that yours are still up and running strong after several years...that doesn't surprise me in the least, though, given the quality of parts he uses. The thing is built like a tank!  *I can't believe he doesn't charge more than what he does....but I'm glad he doesn't lol. *


 
   
  I like to think it's that he's actually pricing the device fairly in relation to the cost of acquiring the parts (in China, probably in bulk too) and putting the device together (labour costs). A lot of people get uber excited about a PMP device using a 'Wolfson' DAC and will pay a lot for it, however the DAC only costs like $3.
   
  However some manufacturers know they can get away with pricing their products with a massive profit margin, and so they do. Not that the end products aren't decent, but it's a nice treat when you come across a company with a great quality to price ratio like Little Dot devices.
   
  Also, I agree, the build quality is amazing on the I+. I've had it for years and can see it providing many more years of reliable service.
   
  @Heatfan:
  How comes no love for the Voshkod-6ZH1P-EV? I thought they were meant to be one of the best tubes for the I+? Although as you said, the cans being used should be taken into account.
   
   
  Quote: 





razrr1275 said:


> even if you guys haven't heard the phones i'd like to hear your recommendations anyway. These tubes all seem to get good reviews so i'm just interested in knowing sonic differences between them for the most part


 

 http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide
   
  great thread for researching little dot + tube combinations and reviews


----------



## HeatFan12

Lots of love analogue3 for the Vs as well. Lol...There are just so many tubes for this amp and sometimes I do lean towards the EF91 & 92 family. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## analogue 3

^haha, awesome, good to know. What is it about EF91/92 which is preferable to the EF95s? Or is it to do with your particular music tastes and cans? I've only got the Vs and the stock tubes, so they are the obvious choice for me.


----------



## RAZRr1275

sounds good - i went with the mullards and the russians. Seems like a nice difference in tonal quality with the warmth of the mullards vs the analytic ability of the russians. Got matched pairs for both.


----------



## HeatFan12

@ analogue 3- more of a preference thing. I notice the EF 91/92 family has lots of air and imaging and soundstage is wide, while retaining tightness in bass. 
Through the years, I got more into experiencing with different varieties within the families. For EF95 I like CV850, 6096CT, 403A. EF91 & EF92-various 6AM6, CV138, 6CQ6, CV131, M8161 etc. and for the 408A, I a couple nice 6028s as well.
I have found some nice little gems for this amp indeed.

@RAZR- enjoy!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## beekermartin

Quote: 





beekermartin said:


> Like these Magick Man?:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/6J1P-GOLD-GRID-EF95-6AK5-VOSKHOD-MATCHED-PAIR-TUBE-60s-MILITARY-/251024280396?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3a72368b4c


 
  I have finally gotten around to trying out my Little Dot i+.  I want to swap in the tubes I got off ebay listed above.  I am confused about what settings I need to change from the stock tubes.  It appears I don't have to change anyting since the tubes appear to be 6J1Ps.  Is that correct I am totally misunderstanding???


----------



## Biesas

Quote: 





heatfan12 said:


> David is the man indeed Focker.  Excellent support!!!
> 
> Some pics through the years of my LD I+ getting some love.  Good times!!!!!


 
  Hey mate. Which tubes are these that you are/were using? They look pretty nice. I want to find some tubes that glow pretty bright (just for the looks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote: 





beekermartin said:


> I have finally gotten around to trying out my Little Dot i+.  I want to swap in the tubes I got off ebay listed above.  I am confused about what settings I need to change from the stock tubes.  It appears I don't have to change anyting since the tubes appear to be 6J1Ps.  Is that correct I am totally misunderstanding???


 
   
   
  If your I+ came stock with the 6J1 (EF95 family) then you do not have to change the settings.  You can use EF95, 6AK5, 5654, 6Zv1P, CV850, 6096, CV4010 (M8100), 403A etc. with that setting.
   
  Cheers!
   
   
  Quote: 





biesas said:


> Hey mate. Which tubes are these that you are/were using? They look pretty nice. I want to find some tubes that glow pretty bright (just for the looks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Well, that was some months ago, but I would guess those are Sylvania Gold 408As.
   
  Cheers!


----------



## RAZRr1275

hey i got some 408as - you have to change the settings to use those right? if so how hard is it?


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote: 





razrr1275 said:


> hey i got some 408as - you have to change the settings to use those right? if so how hard is it?


 
   
   
  Yes, you must change settings between the three different families (EF95 and all variants- 6AK5, M8100 etc.) & (EF91 & EF92 etc.) & (408A & 6028).
   
  It is not difficult, but I purchased my I+ when it first came out and I believe the jumper settings might have changed with newer batches.  I have the manual that I received years ago for mine.  If you want to take a look at it to see if it's the same, PM me your email and I'll send it.  Or you can email David and find out if there were any setting changes.
   
  This is from the manual that I received.  Again, confirm there were no changes from your amp


----------



## RAZRr1275

i just checked the manual that i got - they're the same - i'm going to try the 408a tubes tomorrow - now one thing that it doesn't seem to be clear on is how exactly to open this thing up - can you walk me through it?


----------



## john57

Just take the bottom two screws from the front and back and the case will come apart in the middle.


----------



## RAZRr1275

well i just read this thread looking at op amps - it seems like the 2107 and 1364 are the most liked? would the 2134, 627, 2228 or lme 49720 be better? what are the differences between the sounds? a lot of the posts were about each specific opamps sound but not much as far as comparison between them


----------



## spiderking31

You should try military spec tubes....I use the GE Jan5654W tubes with my little dot mk3, and it's insane! Just a recommendation


----------



## RAZRr1275

oh if that's addressed at me I already have a set - they sound great - I'm wondering about rotating opamps in and out


----------



## RAZRr1275

well i picked up the 2107, 2134, 1364 and 49720. We'll see how it goes


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote: 





razrr1275 said:


> well i picked up the 2107, 2134, 1364 and 49720. We'll see how it goes


 
   
  Well, you are a rolling machine RAZR...Enjoy!!!  Awesome little amp...
   
  Now get those Tung Sol 6028s I told you about...lol
   
  Cheers!!!!!


----------



## RAZRr1275

Quote: 





heatfan12 said:


> Well, you are a rolling machine RAZR...Enjoy!!!  Awesome little amp...
> 
> Now get those Tung Sol 6028s I told you about...lol
> 
> Cheers!!!!!


 
  yeah it's really fun to do. I'll get on that once my wallet recovers and I can find a set.


----------



## HeatFan12

Just remember to have a foundation.  If you roll opamps and tubes at the same time, it will be crazy to try to develop a base for a particular sound.  Stick with one and roll the other and vice versa..
   
  Enjoy!!!


----------



## RAZRr1275

thanks for the advice - I'm keeping notes on how certain tubes sound with certain headphones so i can avoid bad pairings (i.e. grado headphones with voshkod tubes) in the future


----------



## Zoom25

Does anybody here have experience with Hifiman HE-500 and Little Dot 1+?


----------



## silversurfer616

Quote: 





zoom25 said:


> Does anybody here have experience with Hifiman HE-500 and Little Dot 1+?


 

 Just listening to this combination with Mullard 8100, stock amp  and gain to 3,5.
  Compared to my Audio GD Phoenix it does have a little bit less authority and I can't turn up the volume too much as the stock silver cable is too bright(coming from HD650 and LCD2Rev1)for me.
  Will get a Norse adapter for my balanced Moon chain mail so I can use it for the Hifiman too and I hope that will tone down the brightness and I can use a higher volume.
  Also,because I use my Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC with a Psvane tube in combination with the Little Dot Hybrid,I hear lots of depth and all the "room acoustics",which is something I love as it makes the music organic and real.


----------



## Bee inthe Attic

is there a general consensus on which [inexpensive] tubes sound _best_ with the LDI+?
  how are the RCA Command's?
   
  i use my LDI+ mainly with my Denon D7000's and sometimes with Grado SR225i's.


----------



## SurfWax

I'm insane. Spent a good amount of time tonight going through every page of this thread. I was decided on getting an Asgard in 2 months to drive a pair of RS1i's I'll be getting in 2 months as well, but I've always wanted a tube amp and with the time I spent away from head-fi, I had thought the LD I+ was more expensive, but it's cheap!

 Will put up an ad to buy a used LD I+ in 1.5 months or so, so I can try to get everything in my hands all at the same time. If it comes stock, I'll be getting the OPA2107. Will also get the Voshkod 6ZH1P-EZ or Mullard M1800 pair of tubes. Sylvania Gold 408a's seem too hard and expensive to track down. I'll just keep an eye out for them after a few months with the other tubes.
   
  http://www.ti.com/product/opa2107
   
  ^Is that the correct 2107? I only need 1 with the 8pins right? I see I can order a sample from TI, I'll use my ucla email, hope it helps. Any other op amps I should request samples from TI? - [That would match well with the 6ZH1P-EZ's/M1800's]


----------



## shipsupt

That 2107 will work fine for you in the LD I+.


----------



## Quimi

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> That 2107 will work fine for you in the LD I+.


 
  Sounds great 2107.


----------



## datazbytes

Decided to mess about with my LD I+.

So far I changed from stock to CV4015 EF92 M8161 9D6 MULLARD 8114. They sound pretty good with ah-d2000's so far.
There's bit more clarity and bass seems to be fuller.
They do heat up more than stock tubes though.


----------



## Cakensaur

looks like ill be jumping upon this little dot train.


----------



## SurfWax

Changed my mind again, must be my mothers genes in me, I don't know lol. I'm 100%, without a doubt, concrete, getting an Asgard, have a deal in place to get buy it off another head-fi member in about 10 days.
   
Put this up a couple days ago in the OPamp thread, no responses, so I'm trying here now,
   
I have 3 OPA 2107 I received from TI, I have decided against getting the LDI+ and will be getting an Asgard. So no need to keep them. Brand new, unused, still in anti-static bag, just opened it to verify contents.

Got them for free, will sell them for free. Just pay me for postage and you can have all 3 - I won't split them up because I'd have to get different cases for each. Will ship them a couple days after Jan 7th, so we can do it then, just wanting to put this out there early so it's all set up and ready to go when the day comes. First response gets them, just PM me!


----------



## gibosi

This thread has been pretty quiet recently....
   
   
   
  Has anyone tried this tube?
   
  "PHILIPS MINIWATT TS62 / 6028 / 408A  The TS stands for "Telefonica Serie"..... Made for telephone networks in Europe.... These are durable, low noise, long life tubes and have silver plate with gold internal wiring and pins....."
   
  http://www.nostubestore.com/search/label/6028%2F408A%2FTS62
   
  This is European Philips Miniwatt, a Dutch company. Around 1980, Philips bought the Electronic Components and Consumer Electronics divisions of Sylvania from GTE, which included the Sylvania tube plant, and continued to make Sylvana tubes under the new Philips ECG brand name. However, these Philips ECG tubes are completely different from the earlier European Philips Miniwatt tubes manufactured in Holland.
   
  The build quality of these Philips Miniwatt TS62s looks amazing, and of course, durability, low noise and long life are very desirable features as well. But I have no idea how they sound.....  So decided to give them a try and have a pair on their way to me...


----------



## Magick Man

Popping into tell tell folks that this is a great deal:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6J1P-6AK7-EF95-6F32-Pentode-Tubes-Lot-of-8-NOS-/150943037957

I got some in and they sound, to me, just like the more pricey Voskhod EF95s. They very well may be Voskhods, they have the same symbols, including the little missile graphic, and the inverted "UFO" getter. 8 for $8 shipped, go get `em.


----------



## pallentx

I haven't read all 95 pages of this, but I've spent a few hours searching and scanning through it. Wow, so many possibilities.
   
  How important is it to buy tubes as a matched pair? Anyone bought loose singles and had problems? What's the worst that could happen if they aren't matched? Also, what does matching actually refer to? Impedance? voltage change?
   
  Thanks


----------



## duncan1

For a given input BOTH tubes should have -if not exactly the same as near as possible the same output'
                     In tubes this makes a large difference in THD
                      Yes it would "work" with any two tubes of the same type/variety.
                        Dont use tubes of different manufacturers.
                          For what it costs it is WELL worth buying -MATCHED tubes.


----------



## pallentx

Yeah, so far, I've been able to find matched pairs, but there's a few tubes I've wanted to try that I can only find singles or pairs that don't say "matched". Just wondering how much I should worry about that.
   
  thanks!


----------



## duncan1

That depends if you have any friends or know anybody with a tube tester.
   It doesn't matter if the tester isn't too accurate as long as you get a gain reading near the same on the two tubes you would use. 
     I am sure they must be some people round your area who repair old electronic equipment you could phone around.
   That's one of the problems with tubes unless with a guarantee or a reputable seller you need to test them.
   And its why tube testers are so dear to buy. Unless you can build one plenty of circuits this side of the Atlantic on UK web-sites.


----------



## gibosi

In my opinion, matched tubes on the 1+ are not so important. The tubes in this amp are used as cathode followers. That is, they provide absolutely no gain, and in fact, the signal out of this tube stage is at a slightly lower level than the input, maybe something like 97%. In fact, you could bypass these tubes with a straight wire and this amp would still work fine. Their main function is to give a "tube flavor" to the signal.
   
  That said, for sure, you would want both tubes to provide the same "tube flavor". Of course, you would not want to mix different brands, but as long as the tubes are of the same brand, manufactured around the same time and the interior construction, that is the plates and getter, are the same, I would say go for it. 
   
  And if you want a real tube rolling adventure, I would suggest you visit the Little Dot Tube Rolling Guide forum:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/735
   
  About half way down this page (50), begins a thread about using very non-traditional tubes in your LD. For example:
   
  6CB6A/6CB6/6676/6CJ6/7732
  6DK6/8136
  6BC5/6CE5
  6EW6
  6GM6
  6GX6/6GY6
  6AG5/EF96/6186/CV848/6J3P
  6J38P-EV
   
  And if you are really feeling adventurous... as you will need to strap pins 2 and 7 together for these to work....
   
  8425A/6AU6A/6136
  6485/6AH6
  6HS6
   
  In my opinion, many of these tubes are superior to any 6AK5/408A I have, and a number of them are superior to my GEC EF91 and Mullard EF92 as well.
   
  Happy tube rolling.


----------



## pallentx

Thanks for the info! I've poked around in that thread and eventually got overwhelmed. Right now I'm playing with opamps. I'm liking the LM4562. I have a OPA2107 in now and cant really tell a difference between it and the LM4562. I prefer both of these over the stock and LT1364. I don't know if it was a coincidence or a "feature" of the opamp, but I seemed to pickup more interference noise (pretty sure it wifi) with the LT1364 in.
   
  For tubes, I've tried the Mullard 8100 and am currently on the Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV. I'm pretty happy with the Voshkods. Unless there's something else out there that is just marvelous, I may stick with this config for a while. I'm really not hearing radical differences with the tubes - differences with opamps are noticeable, but also very subtle. I think I'm learning that I'm not that discerning or particular about what the amp does to the sound. I can find small improvements here and there, but I'm glad I only spent for a Little Dot and not something far more expensive to conduct this little experiment.


----------



## gibosi

After trying the various op amps discussed earlier in this thread, I settled on the opa2107. As to 6AK5s, the Mullards and Voskhods are at the top of most recommended lists, so you have saved a bit of money by just buying two of the best to begin. However, I would also encourage you to try the 408As, EF91s and EF92s. My favorite 408A is the Sylvania Gold Brand with gold pins. It can be expensive, but if you are patient you can often find a good buy. Many people also like the Western Electric 408A and these can be found quite cheaply. The best EF91 to my ears is the GEC CV4014 and the best EF92 is the Mullard CV4015. Unfortunately, these are also not cheap. But again, if you are patient, good buys often appear. Of all the standard tubes for Little Dots, my favorite is the Mullard CV4015 and if you were to decide to buy only one more tube for your Little Dot, this is the one I would recommend.


----------



## pallentx

Nice. You just boiled down 95 pages into a paragraph. I've scanned though maybe half of this thread and was trying to find the tubes most people had settled on after trying numerous ones. Your post confirmed a lot of what I was thinking. The 408A Sylvania Golds are one of the tubes I kept finding singles and pairs not advertised as "matched". I'll keep my eye out. The Mullard CV4015 is also on the short list. Maybe I'll try just one more...
   
  Apparently, I have one more opamp to try. A LME49720NA showed up yesterday. I forgot I had ordered that one. I read somewhere its supposed to be an improved version of the LM4562. I guessing I wont be able to hear a difference, but it was $5 so, why not?


----------



## gibosi

Keep in mind that some Sylvania Gold Brand 408As have gold pins and some do not. So make sure you are buying gold pins. And again, matched pairs are nice if you can find them, but matching is not necessary, especially NOS tubes. In fact, the tubes shipped from the factory with the LD 1+ are not a matched pair. Moreover, David ZheZhe of Little Dot has gone on record to say that matching is not necessary. I have 4 pairs of Sylvania gold pins, 3 pairs were NOS and 1 pair was used. No matched pairs and they all fine.


----------



## lawrywild

Got my Little Dot I+ today. Put in a LM4562 and Mullard M8100s. Initially disappointed by the rather loud transformer hum. However I dismantled the whole thing and finally worked out that if I isolated the transformer casing from the main chassis that it became much quieter. So I stuck some foam padding where the transformer casing screws attach to the chassis (didn't have any rubber washers on hand) and reduced the hum considerably. I also isolated the transformer a bit too for good measure. Not really what I wanted to have to do, but I couldn't be bothered with trying to send it back to China for replacement.. Anyway, switched to OPA2107 now. Seems a little less bright but not as clean. I have a load of AD8599 SOICs from a few years ago that I'm waiting for DIP converter boards to arrive so that I can try them. From what I remember they are much better than both the 4562 or 2107.
   
  edit: realised today that the transformer vibration was being amplified by the top of my DAC which it was resting on. It's almost silent when I lift it off the DAC... will work out some way of damping this thing and put my engineering degree to some use. Also, switched back to the 4562 for now, don't really like the 2107 much (I know this is a tube rolling thread but yeh..).


----------



## Rossy007

I just got my little dot 1+ on Tuesday (7Th) and I am currently burning it in as per Davids suggestions (8 hrs - 30 mins to 1 hr rest). I have ordered a LM4562 op amp as an upgrade as I read good reviews. I will be getting a pair of replacement pair of AKG Q701  (last amp took out the left channel). I was wondering what would be a good first tube upgrade, I like a clean open sound stage with controlled bass. I listen to most everything. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I have read this whole thread and as it is very informative, I am till a bit overwhelmed.
   
  Thanks everyone


----------



## Rossy007

Just got my AKG Q701's, plugged them in and had to turn the volume to 8 (not very loud). I opened the little dot up and removed the two jumpers (j3 + j4) plugged it back up and.......no difference, still have to turn it up to 8? am I doing something wrong?


----------



## shipsupt

What's your source?


----------



## Rossy007

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> What's your source?


 

 Ipod in a dynex dock, vol on full


----------



## Bee inthe Attic

Quote: 





rossy007 said:


> I just got my little dot 1+ on Tuesday (7Th) and I am currently burning it in as per Davids suggestions (8 hrs - 30 mins to 1 hr rest). I have ordered a LM4562 op amp as an upgrade as I read good reviews. I will be getting a pair of replacement pair of AKG Q701  (last amp took out the left channel). I was wondering what would be a good first tube upgrade, I like a clean open sound stage with controlled bass. I listen to most everything.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  The Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV is a great first tube upgrade; I've been enjoying them for the last few months. These have very clear treble and good controlled bass.
   
  Check the opening of this thread for all the info you'll need to get started: http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide
   
  Quote: 





rossy007 said:


> Just got my AKG Q701's, plugged them in and had to turn the volume to 8 (not very loud). I opened the little dot up and removed the two jumpers (j3 + j4) plugged it back up and.......no difference, still have to turn it up to 8? am I doing something wrong?


 
   
  Not sure why you aren't getting volume. I never use mine past 30 (I assume by 8 you mean 80). Double check all of your connections (and the tubes) are in securely. Also check that you've removed the correct gain jumpers - refer to page 8 in the owners manual: http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6037680/Little%20Dot%20I%2B%20Reference%20Guide.pdf
   
  Lastly, try the amp with a different source and different headphones to see if the problem is somewhere else. If all fails, ask David. His customer service is outstanding.


----------



## Rossy007

Thanks for the reply, I did plug my Sony CD player in and still have to turn it up to 80. I e-mailed David and though he did reply quickly, He didn't give me any suggestions. Maybe a dud amp? Does anyone know what the other jumpers are for ( the ones either side of of j3 and j4)


----------



## shipsupt

Are you talking about J1 and J2?  These are used to change tube types.  Check page 9 of the instruction manual to be sure they are set up right for whatever tubes you're running.


----------



## Rossy007

Sorry, they are resistors. Just have to deal with it.


----------



## Rossy007

So been running my LD for a couple of weeks and enjoying it. I have a pair of Voskhod gold grid 1960 6j1p on its way as well as a OPA 2107 op amp (very excited) I feel my weak link is my source (Ipod ind Dynex dock) could anyone recommend a source to get the most out of my amp? I do have a laptop that I don't use very much but think I would need a separate DAC?
   
  Cheers


----------



## lawrywild

I don't think there's a Little Dot I+ opamp rolling thread (?) so I'll post this here
   
  Did some opamp rolling and posted my impressions with various opamps here
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/432749/the-opamp-thread/4395#post_9441114


----------



## Rossy007

Quote: 





rossy007 said:


> So been running my LD for a couple of weeks and enjoying it. I have a pair of Voskhod gold grid 1960 6j1p on its way as well as a OPA 2107 op amp (very excited) I feel my weak link is my source (Ipod ind Dynex dock) could anyone recommend a source to get the most out of my amp? I do have a laptop that I don't use very much but think I would need a separate DAC?
> 
> Cheers


 

 Anyone?


----------



## gibosi

There are lots of DACs out there for around $100 to use with your PC, and most would more than suffice, for example, the Schiit Audio Modi for $99 is quite nice. On the other hand, if you would just like to try a DAC first, to see if it is worth it, it is hard to beat $16.59 with free shipping. The ELE DAC has been quite a hit here on headfi.
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/ELE-EL-D01-MINI-HIFI-USB-DAC-SOUND-Audio-CARD-PCM2704-BOARD-ELNA-Capacitor-S-/290908894560


----------



## Bee inthe Attic

Quote: 





rossy007 said:


> So been running my LD for a couple of weeks and enjoying it. I have a pair of Voskhod gold grid 1960 6j1p on its way as well as a OPA 2107 op amp (very excited) I feel my weak link is my source (Ipod ind Dynex dock) could anyone recommend a source to get the most out of my amp? I do have a laptop that I don't use very much but think I would need a separate DAC?
> 
> Cheers


 
   

 What kind/generation of ipod are you using? Some of them have pretty good DAC's.
  Upgrading to a stand-alone DAC would provide improvement, but it's not a night-and-day difference to my ears. I'd say listen to what you have, and upgrade if you hear problems with your current setup, or if you want to play around and see the differences for yourself. One of my chains is: Laptop>HRT Music Steamer II>Little Dot I+
   
  HRT also makes the istreamer, which is a DAC that can connect directly to an ipod.
   
  (Also, if you're using low bit rate mp3s with your ipod, upgrading to at least 320 will make the most drastic improvement IMO)


----------



## kfarndog

Quote: 





rossy007 said:


> So been running my LD for a couple of weeks and enjoying it. I have a pair of Voskhod gold grid 1960 6j1p on its way as well as a OPA 2107 op amp (very excited) I feel my weak link is my source (Ipod ind Dynex dock) could anyone recommend a source to get the most out of my amp? I do have a laptop that I don't use very much but think I would need a separate DAC?
> 
> Cheers


 
  Depending on which Ipod model it is you should be fine.  Putting ALAC files on it will make a larger difference than buying yet another piece of equipment.  As always, YMMV.


----------



## Rossy007

Thanks everyone, I have 2 i Pods, 1 is a 80g classic gen 5 which holds all my pop, rock and stuff and I also have a 30g video (gen 5 also I think) which holds all my classical music. I have them both loaded with apple lossless ripped from my Cd’s  with dbpoweramp. I use a Dynex dock which plugs into my little dot and strangely enough, it comes with a remote control which allows me to control the volume and select the different eq's on the i pods. I would just like to get the cleanest signal into the little dot.- as I hear people rave about the sound quality.

  
  Thanks again.


----------



## Rossy007

Just got a 2017 op amp in the mail and slapped that puppy in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was able to take off the "classical" eq of the ipod and set it to flat. great bass detail and depth but the mid range (vocals) are really hard\harsh. hopefully that will tone down over time. Great upgrade for the money, cant wait for my Voskhod gold to get here.


----------



## Rossy007

Got my Voskhod gold today and one of them hums\buzzes. I cleaned the pins but it still make a buzzing sound. I swapped them over and the buzz followed the tube, it also is brighter than the other....is it done or does it need to burn in?


----------



## gibosi

Quote: 





rossy007 said:


> Got my Voskhod gold today and one of them hums\buzzes. I cleaned the pins but it still make a buzzing sound. I swapped them over and the buzz followed the tube, it also is brighter than the other....is it done or does it need to burn in?


 
   
  Some tubes need as much as 50  hours to completely burn in. However, typically, 20 to 30 hours is usually enough. And then, if they are still noisy, get back to the vendor.


----------



## shipsupt

Not likely.  Something is wrong with that tube and I don't think it's going to get better.  For whatever burn in might or might not do, it's not going to fix that kind of issue.


----------



## Rossy007

I contacted the seller and they instantly gave me refund. I reordered a matched set of the same but made in 1972...the previous were made in 1960. Shame really, the bottom end really picked up with my Q701's


----------



## gibosi

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Not likely.  Something is wrong with that tube and I don't think it's going to get better.  For whatever burn in might or might not do, it's not going to fix that kind of issue.


 
   
  Evidently, you and I have had different experiences. Just recently, I plugged in a pair of JRC 5915 (6BY6), dated 1963, (using the EF92 jumpers) and it took about 20 hours for them to settle down. They are now extremely quiet.


----------



## shipsupt

It's the "burning brighter" comment that leads me to believe that there is an issue with that tube.  That is not likely to "settle down".
   
  In my experience I'd put it on my tube tester, but I didn't see that as an option here.  Better to take a conservative approach than damage an amp if the tube fails catastrophically.  That said, it's just the interweb, he can take or leave advice.


----------



## Rossy007

Quote: 





gibosi said:


> Evidently, you and I have had different experiences. Just recently, I plugged in a pair of JRC 5915 (6BY6), dated 1963, (using the EF92 jumpers) and it took about 20 hours for them to settle down. They are now extremely quiet.


 

 did yours have a buzzing problem also?


----------



## gibosi

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> It's the "burning brighter" comment that leads me to believe that there is an issue with that tube.  That is not likely to "settle down".


 
  I have a number of tubes where one is slightly brighter than the other, so that may or may not be significant. But of course, I haven't seen or heard his tubes, and it may very well be that he has a dud. There is no way I can know.....
   
  All I am suggesting is to burn in them for awhile and see what happens. Most vendors are very reasonable about refunds and/or replacements, so burning them in for a day, or so, shouldn't be a problem. Even though he has another pair coming, I would still suggest he try burning them in, again, to see if it is truly a dud, or if it just needs some time to settle down.
   
  Cheers


----------



## gibosi

Quote: 





rossy007 said:


> did yours have a buzzing problem also?


 
   
  Yes, I have had a number of tubes that buzzed and hummed. And in nearly every case, a long burn-in solved the problem. That said, I have had a number of duds. I couple months ago, I received 4 Russian 6AU6. All 4 were noisy and after burning all 4 of them in for 30 hours, they were still no better than when I started.... 
   
  So it doesn't always work....   but burning-in is cheap and easy, so it is always worth a try, IMHO...


----------



## Rossy007

do i have to have music playing through the amp or can I just leave it on?


----------



## gibosi

Quote: 





rossy007 said:


> do i have to have music playing through the amp or can I just leave it on?


 
   
  No, you do not have to have music running through it. However, I usually run it at a low volume because I like to check every once in awhile to make sure the tube is still working and to see if the tube is getting quieter.


----------



## Rossy007

I am looking for tubes that will give me the lowest\warmest\fullest bass response with my little dot 1+. I am using AKG Q701's with an ipod & LOD. I do love the sound but the top end seems a little overly bright and although the bass is clear and detailed, I would like it to be a little fuller and forward (I am not a bass head...I don't think)
  I am currently running the stock tubes with a 2107 op amp but have some VOSKHOD 6j1p's coming in a week or so.
   
  Thanks everyone.


----------



## gibosi

I would recommend a pair of Tung-Sol 6BE6. (Set your LD in the EF95 setting). These have the low/warm/full bass you are looking for, well articulated and punchy. Further, the treble is extended, refined and well resolved, but not overly bright. The mids are rather sweet, round and clean. These tubes are very quiet and detailed, with a wide sound stage and excellent imaging,


----------



## Rossy007

Thanks, do they have to be Tung-Sol or will another manufacturer be as good?


----------



## gibosi

Quote: 





rossy007 said:


> Thanks, do they have to be Tung-Sol or will another manufacturer be as good?


 
   
  One of the top-rated 6BE6 is the Siemens EK90 (European designation for the 6BE6), but they are a bit more expensive and harder to find. The GE military version, JG 5760/6BE6W, is more affordable and also very good. Others have reported the Sylvania Gold Brand 5750/6BE6 as being very good. As the American versions are relatively cheap, I would encourage you to get a couple different brands to see what you think. And then, if you really like the sound signature of this tube, it might be worthwhile to seek out the more expensive European brands, such as the Siemens and Telefunken EK90 and the British military version, CV4012.
   
  Happy tube rolling!


----------



## Rossy007

Thanks for everything....I'm now on a search


----------



## Rossy007

I just placed an order for -
 *NOS NIB Matched Pair Sylvania USA 6BE6 [5750] Gray Plate Vacuum Tube 6BE6 100%+* *sorry, copied from ebay. I hope these are the right ones,  thanks gibosi for your advice.*


----------



## gibosi

Quote: 





rossy007 said:


> I just placed an order for -
> *NOS NIB Matched Pair Sylvania USA 6BE6 [5750] Gray Plate Vacuum Tube 6BE6 100%+* *sorry, copied from ebay. I hope these are the right ones,  thanks gibosi for your advice.*


 
   
  Yes, these Sylvania 5750/6BE6 are definitely the right ones. And once you have had a chance to audition them, I hope you will let us know what you think.
   
  Cheers!


----------



## Rossy007

Absolutely, Thanks again.


----------



## Rossy007

Just got my Sylvania 5750\6BE6 and I am not sure about the jumper settings. I have only tried the stock tube. Can anyone tell me the settings?
  Thanks


----------



## Rossy007

So tried to find what family these tubes belong to and all I could find was they possibly are EF92 and so as per the little dot guide, I followed the jumpers k1 & k2 to the side of 61j and j1 & j2 on. I must admit, I am having the worst luck with tubes. The first set,there was a buzz out of one of them and now these new ones I am having the same problem. Ignoring the buzzing, these are superb and give me exactly what I want in sound direct out from my CD player but the buzzing is making me regret getting this amp. Sorry...just frustrated


----------



## gibosi

Quote: 





rossy007 said:


> So tried to find what family these tubes belong to and all I could find was they possibly are EF92 and so as per the little dot guide, I followed the jumpers k1 & k2 to the side of 61j and j1 & j2 on. I must admit, I am having the worst luck with tubes. The first set,there was a buzz out of one of them and now these new ones I am having the same problem. Ignoring the buzzing, these are superb and give me exactly what I want in sound direct out from my CD player but the buzzing is making me regret getting this amp. Sorry...just frustrated


 
   
  There is absolutely nothing wrong with your amp. These buzzing and humming noises are actually quite common with brand new tubes.
   
  Again, as I have mentioned before, tubes do not sound their best right out of the box. They really do need to be burned in for a good 20 hours or so. And most of the time, the buzzes and humming quiet down and the sound usually improves as well. (However, these improvements are typically rather subtle).
   
  I burn every set of tubes for at least 20 hours before making any decisions. So put them in and let them cook. I usually check on them every 4 or 5 hours, and of course, after 8 hours, per the Little Dot manual, turn the amp off for about 30 minutes, and then cook them for another 8 hours.
   
  Otherwise, I am pleased that you like them.  
   
  These are very unique tubes in that they can be used in either the EF95 setting or the EF92 setting. In the EF95 setting (grid number 3 is disconnected), the bass is stronger. In the EF92 setting (grid number 3 is strapped to the anode), the frequency spectrum is shifted a bit more to the mids and treble. I personally prefer the EF95 setting with these tubes.
   
  So again, it is too soon to come to any conclusions. Burn them in.  And after 20 hours or so, let us know what you think.
   
  Cheers


----------



## Rossy007

Sorry...just the little brat in me got let out for a second...thanks for all your help.......the Patience has begun


----------



## tkoreaper

I'm looking to get a pair of Mullard 8161 tubes for my red dot and have a few questions. I searched ebay and found a pair, but the listing says CV4024. Is there a difference between that and CV401? 
   
  Also, I only skimmed through the first few pages of this thread and also looked at http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide#post_7625989 which both mention the Mullard 8161/CV401 to be the ideal tube... As you can probably notice both threads are pretty dated so I was wondering if anything has changed as far as another tube becoming more desirable.


----------



## gibosi

Quote: 





tkoreaper said:


> I'm looking to get a pair of Mullard 8161 tubes for my red dot and have a few questions. I searched ebay and found a pair, but the listing says CV4024. Is there a difference between that and CV401?
> 
> Also, I only skimmed through the first few pages of this thread and also looked at http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide#post_7625989 which both mention the Mullard 8161/CV401 to be the ideal tube... As you can probably notice both threads are pretty dated so I was wondering if anything has changed as far as another tube becoming more desirable.


 
   
  Red Dot???  I assume you mean Little Dot?
   
  Anyway, the CV4024 is not compatible with Little Dot amps. And I do not think you want a CV401 either. What I believe you want is either an M8161 or a CV4015. You might be able to find a CV131, but generally, CVXXX are older and not as good as CVXXXX. So I encourage you to search for the newer and better M8161, or even better yet, the CV4015.
   
  I personally believe that the 6BE6 is a better sounding tube. The American premium version of the 6BE6 is the 5750. And if you would prefer the British CV version, that would be a CV4012.


----------



## tkoreaper

Quote: 





gibosi said:


> Red Dot???  I assume you mean Little Dot?
> 
> Anyway, the CV4024 is not compatible with Little Dot amps. And I do not think you want a CV401 either. What I believe you want is either an M8161 or a CV4015. You might be able to find a CV131, but generally, CVXXX are older and not as good as CVXXXX. So I encourage you to search for the newer and better M8161, or even better yet, the CV4015.
> 
> I personally believe that the 6BE6 is a better sounding tube. The American premium version of the 6BE6 is the 5750. And if you would prefer the British CV version, that would be a CV4012.


 
  Yeah, sorry I meant Little Dot (too much FPS games lol). I'm a little confused... If you look at the page I linked in my previous post you'll see "*Mullard M8161/CV401*". This makes me assume they are the same... forgive me as I'm new to all this. What confuses me is if I do a search for Mullard 8161 on ebay I get back results with different CVXXX variations, one of those being the CV4024 that I mentioned. So I'm a little confused as to what precisely I should be searching for... M8161 or CVXXXX?


----------



## gibosi

Quote: 





tkoreaper said:


> Yeah, sorry I meant Little Dot (too much FPS games lol). I'm a little confused... If you look at the page I linked in my previous post you'll see "*Mullard M8161/CV401*". This makes me assume they are the same... forgive me as I'm new to all this. What confuses me is if I do a search for Mullard 8161 on ebay I get back results with different CVXXX variations, one of those being the CV4024 that I mentioned. So I'm a little confused as to what precisely I should be searching for... M8161 or CVXXXX?


 
   
  The M8161 is the consumer version of this tube and the CV4015 is the British military version. The CV4015 is generally considered the best. However, it is my experience that military versions do not always sound better. However, they are more rugged and durable as these features are highly valued by the military. I have the CV4015, but not the M8161, so in this case, I just can't say.... Therefore, my best advice is to buy the CV4015 if you can find it at a good price. But if the CV4015 is too expensive, the M8161 for less money might very well be just as good. And it most certainly won't be bad.


----------



## tkoreaper

Quote: 





gibosi said:


> The M8161 is the consumer version of this tube and the CV4015 is the British military version. The CV4015 is generally considered the best. However, it is my experience that military versions do not always sound better. However, they are more rugged and durable as these features are highly valued by the military. I have the CV4015, but not the M8161, so in this case, I just can't say.... Therefore, my best advice is to buy the CV4015 if you can find it at a good price. But if the CV4015 is too expensive, the M8161 for less money might very well be just as good. And it most certainly won't be bad.


 
  Thanks for the help.


----------



## Rossy007

Quote: 





gibosi said:


> Yes, these Sylvania 5750/6BE6 are definitely the right ones. And once you have had a chance to audition them, I hope you will let us know what you think.
> 
> Cheers!


 
   


 So, After about a week, one of the tubes is still buzzing, just slightly so I have an option to have the vendor replace the buzzing one or both. I have about 70 hours into them and am not sure if I should wait another week or just get them replaced (the buzzing is very faint).
  I have to say that gibosi was right on the money as far as them being warm and full with my Q701's but I still have to use one of the eq's on my ipod just to give it that extra "oomph".
  I am looking into a dac to use with my laptop which may help but overall, VERY happy with these valves.


----------



## gibosi

The tube that's still buzzing might get better with more time, but after 70 hours, I think requesting replacements is more than justified.
   
  Anyway, I am not at all surprised that you are "VERY happy" with these tubes. 
   
  In my opinion, the 6BE6 (and its sister tube, the 6BY6) are better than any EF91, EF92, EF95 or 408A you can find. And yes, I possess most of what are considered to be the best, including Mullard CV4010, Voskhod 6J1P-EV, Sylvania 408A with gold pins, Philips Miniwatt TS62 (408A) with gold pins, Mullard CV4015, GEC CV4014, and quite a few others.
   
  I no longer listen to any of these tubes.....
   
  Moreover, I have also tried a number of other non-traditional tubes that are compatible (that is, plug and play) with the LD including 6CB6, 6DK6, 6EW6, 6GM6, 6GY6 (EF92 setting for these 5 tubes) and 6J38P-EV (EF95 setting). In the end, the 6BE6 (EK90, 5760, CV4012) and the 6BY6 (E91H, 5915, 6687), are the best plug and play tubes I have tried to date.
   
  Enjoy!


----------



## mrlimbo

Ive just done my first upgrade from the stock  6J1 tubes to the M8100 tubes , and theres no difference whatsoever ?? so that was a waste of time and money ,  are there any tubes that actually do improve/change the sound over stock tubes ?


----------



## Rossy007

With the help of Gibosi, I ordered a pair of 6BE6 valves and although I had some initial problems with one buzzing, I noticed a reasonable difference in openness and bass response. I'm sure it also depends on you headphones and mine (Q701) as kinda known as being a little "bass light" and although the 6BE6's didn't give me thundering bass, I definitely noticed a thicker sound without loosing clarity in that region. Everyone here will definitely put you in the right direction, I am new to this so cant offer much more.


----------



## gibosi

Quote: 





mrlimbo said:


> Ive just done my first upgrade from the stock  6J1 tubes to the M8100 tubes , and theres no difference whatsoever ?? so that was a waste of time and money ,  are there any tubes that actually do improve/change the sound over stock tubes ?


 
   
  I noticed a significant difference in going from the stock 6J1 to the M8100, but then, everyone has different ears and different gear.   As both the 6J1 and the M8100 are EF 95  tubes, it might be worth your while to change to another family of tubes, for example, the EF 91 or EF 92.
   
  Or if you are willing to use non-traditional tubes, but still plug and play, 6GM6 and 6GY6 (set your LD for EF 92) are inexpensive and quite good. Also, 6BE6, 6BY6 and 6CS6 (set your LD for EF 95) are also inexpensive and quite good.
   
  My current favorites among these are the 6BE6, 6BY6 and 6CS6. But again, everyone has different ears and different gear. As one of my colleagues notes, tubes are a lot like ice cream: The only way to learn which flavors are your favorites is to taste them all and then decide. 
   
  Happy tube rolling!


----------



## mrlimbo

Quote: 





gibosi said:


> I noticed a significant difference in going from the stock 6J1 to the M8100, but then, everyone has different ears and different gear.   As both the 6J1 and the M8100 are EF 95  tubes, it might be worth your while to change to another family of tubes, for example, the EF 91 or EF 92.
> 
> Or if you are willing to use non-traditional tubes, but still plug and play, 6GM6 and 6GY6 (set your LD for EF 92) are inexpensive and quite good. Also, 6BE6, 6BY6 and 6CS6 (set your LD for EF 95) are also inexpensive and quite good.
> 
> ...


 
  Hi thanks for the great info and advice , yes maybe i'll try a different family of tubes , ive looked up the non-traditional tubes you mentioned , i didnt even know i could use these , so thanks for that info , but im struggling to find them here in the UK ?


----------



## gibosi

Quote: 





mrlimbo said:


> Hi thanks for the great info and advice , yes maybe i'll try a different family of tubes , ive looked up the non-traditional tubes you mentioned , i didnt even know i could use these , so thanks for that info , but im struggling to find them here in the UK ?


 
   
  Yes, you may have to purchase some of these tubes from vendors in other countries. If you search for an item on eBay.co.uk, notice that on the left that you can choose location. Select "worldwide" and see if you can find some with low shipping costs. There are no European equivalents for the 6GM6 and 6GY6, but there are for the others.
   
  6BE6 = EK90 and CV4012. (However, I found the Brimar CV4012 not worth the money). You can also search for this tube using the industrial version number, 5760.
  6BY6 = EH900S, EH960, EH91H. And the industrial version numbers are 5915 and 6687
  6CS6 = EH90. There are no other version numbers.
   
  Good luck!


----------



## whirlwind

I have decided to get the Little Dot 1+
   
  Without reading this whole thread, can someone suggest some nice tubes and opamp that would suit me well for my taste in general.
   
  At least give me a decent starting point
   
  I will be mainly using my RS1i and listen to mostly rock and classic rock.....may use my q701 at times.....but mainly the RS1i
   
  Thanks for any help....it will be greatly appreciated.


----------



## mrlimbo

Quote: 





whirlwind said:


> I have decided to get the Little Dot 1+
> 
> Without reading this whole thread, can someone suggest some nice tubes and opamp that would suit me well for my taste in general.
> 
> ...


 
  To be honest , id stick with the stock set up for a month or so , so you get to know the signature sound , this is what i did , the stock sound is fantastic anyway


----------



## mrlimbo

Quote: 





gibosi said:


> Yes, you may have to purchase some of these tubes from vendors in other countries. If you search for an item on eBay.co.uk, notice that on the left that you can choose location. Select "worldwide" and see if you can find some with low shipping costs. There are no European equivalents for the 6GM6 and 6GY6, but there are for the others.
> 
> 6BE6 = EK90 and CV4012. (However, I found the Brimar CV4012 not worth the money). You can also search for this tube using the industrial version number, 5760.
> 6BY6 = EH900S, EH960, EH91H. And the industrial version numbers are 5915 and 6687
> ...


 
  Many thanks again , i'll check that out


----------



## gibosi

Quote: 





whirlwind said:


> I have decided to get the Little Dot 1+
> 
> Without reading this whole thread, can someone suggest some nice tubes and opamp that would suit me well for my taste in general.


 
  [size=x-small]It's a great little amp and I don't think you will regret your decision. And Mrlimbo's advice is wise. Live with the stock tubes and op amp for awhile. You might very well decide that it suits you very well.[/size]
   
  [size=x-small]Otherwise, the OPA2107 op amp is a very popular choice in this thread. For tubes, I suggest trying another[/size] 6AK5. The Mullard M8100 / CV4010 and Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV are at the top of most recommended lists. The Mullard can be a bit pricey, so the Voskhod might be a better first choice. And if one of these tubes does't suit you, there are many other choices.
   
  Good luck!


----------



## whirlwind

Quote: 





gibosi said:


> [size=x-small]It's a great little amp and I don't think you will regret your decision. And Mrlimbo's advice is wise. Live with the stock tubes and op amp for awhile. You might very well decide that it suits you very well.[/size]
> 
> [size=x-small]Otherwise, the OPA2107 op amp is a very popular choice in this thread. For tubes, I suggest trying another[/size] 6AK5. The Mullard M8100 / CV4010 and Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV are at the top of most recommended lists. The Mullard can be a bit pricey, so the Voskhod might be a better first choice. And if one of these tubes does't suit you, there are many other choices.
> 
> Good luck!


 
  Thank you very much...it is much appreciated.


----------



## GermanGuy

just posted a very efficient way to clean tube pins in another thread, but maybe some of the tube rolling thread members are interested in my solution, so just crossposting the link here:

 http://www.head-fi.org/t/632518/analog-paper-2-discussion-and-appreciation-thread/630#post_9573905


----------



## lawrywild

Quote: 





gibosi said:


> [size=x-small]It's a great little amp and I don't think you will regret your decision. And Mrlimbo's advice is wise. Live with the stock tubes and op amp for awhile. You might very well decide that it suits you very well.[/size]
> 
> [size=x-small]Otherwise, the OPA2107 op amp is a very popular choice in this thread. For tubes, I suggest trying another[/size] 6AK5. The Mullard M8100 / CV4010 and Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV are at the top of most recommended lists. The Mullard can be a bit pricey, so the Voskhod might be a better first choice. And if one of these tubes does't suit you, there are many other choices.
> 
> Good luck!


 

 Wherever I've looked the Mullards are half the price of the Voshkods. Where can the Voshkods be bought cheap?


----------



## gibosi

I bought two pair from this vendor:
   
  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130436695928&ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:US:3160
   
  $3 / pair, plus $12 shipping to the US. (I can't imagine that shipping to England would be more expensive?)  Incidentally, buying "matched" tubes would be a huge waste of money.
   
  Edit: 6ZH1P-EV = 6J1P-EV. And what is important is the "EV" which signifies the highest quality Russian tubes.


----------



## DanPluck

Quote: 





lawrywild said:


> Wherever I've looked the Mullards are half the price of the Voshkods. Where can the Voshkods be bought cheap?


 
  Been a while since i have had the little dot but you can get them on ebay by searching EF95 and making sure that it searches other countries.  I bought 10 of em for 8 quid off a bloke in the ukraine.


----------



## mrlimbo

Quote: 





gibosi said:


> I bought two pair from this vendor:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130436695928&ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:US:3160
> 
> ...


 
  Ah great spot ,ive just ordered a pair , thank you for the info 
   
  I bought a pair of these CV4015 i spotted for £3.99 each , worth a punt i thought !!!
   
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350820882072?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649


----------



## gibosi

Quote: 





mrlimbo said:


> I bought a pair of these CV4015 i spotted for £3.99 each , worth a punt i thought !!!


 
   
  That's a great price, especially for 1960's vintage. It is much more common to see 1980's vintage, which is not as desirable as these earlier tubes. You done good!


----------



## whirlwind

Can anybody point me to the best place to purchase a couple opamps.
   
  I am interested in the following
   
  OPA2107
   
  JRC4556
   
  If anybody here has them for sale that would be great also.


----------



## RAZRr1275

Ebay - you could probably get both of those for like 10 bucks shippied


----------



## mrlimbo

Quote: 





whirlwind said:


> JRC4556


 
  Is that a decent opamp , havent heard that one mentioned before ?


----------



## whirlwind

Quote: 





mrlimbo said:


> Is that a decent opamp , havent heard that one mentioned before ?


 
  I have never tried it, but I think that is what is used in the Grado RA1, if I am not mistaken, and I very well could be.
   
  I was just not sure if  e-bay would be full of fake chips....RAZRr1275


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote: 





whirlwind said:


> Can anybody point me to the best place to purchase a couple opamps.
> 
> I am interested in the following
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Mouser & Digi-Key.  The JRC4556 might be a bit hard to find (used on some older Creative X-Fi cards I believe).  OPA2134 might serve as a replacement iirc.
   
  Is this for your LDI+?
   
  The LT1364 is another popular choice.
   
  Cheers!


----------



## whirlwind

Quote: 





heatfan12 said:


> Mouser & Digi-Key.  The JRC4556 might be a bit hard to find (used on some older Creative X-Fi cards I believe).  OPA2134 might serve as a replacement iirc.
> 
> Is this for your LDI+?
> 
> ...


 
  Yup....for LD1+
   
  Found the JRC4556 at JDS labs


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote: 





whirlwind said:


> Yup....for LD1+
> 
> Found the JRC4556 at JDS labs


 
   
   
  Nice.....Enjoy!!!
   
  What other opamps are on your shopping list and what tubes will you be using (408a, EF91, EF92, EF95)?


----------



## whirlwind

Quote: 





heatfan12 said:


> Nice.....Enjoy!!!
> 
> What other opamps are on your shopping list and what tubes will you be using (408a, EF91, EF92, EF95)?


 
  The LD1+ is coming with 3 sets of tubes....Mullard EF91 matched pair......4080A Sylvania gold matched pair....Mullard EF92 matched pair
   
  It also will have 2 opamps......I will get 2 of these 3 listed....I just don't remember which ones for sure.
  LME49720
  LT1364
  BB OPA2134


----------



## HeatFan12

Great sets whirlwind. IIRC, you are also on the Grado thread. The Grados love this little amp.

Congratz!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## whirlwind

I received my OPA2107 opamp the other day.
   
  I am really enjoying it in my LD1+


----------



## mrlimbo

Has anyone used the more exotic opamps out there LME49860 , LME49990, AD797 , THS4032 , MUSES 01 , MUSES 8920 etc ?  always seems to be the same 2 or 3 mentioned on here OPA2107 , LM4562 & LT1364 !


----------



## lawrywild

Quote: 





mrlimbo said:


> Has anyone used the more exotic opamps out there LME49860 , LME49990, AD797 , THS4032 , MUSES 01 , MUSES 8920 etc ?  always seems to be the same 2 or 3 mentioned on here OPA2107 , LM4562 & LT1364 !


 

 Only tested one of the ones you mentioned, but I tested several opamps other than the usual ones here:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/432749/the-opamp-thread/4395#post_9441114


----------



## mrlimbo

Quote: 





lawrywild said:


> Only tested one of the ones you mentioned, but I tested several opamps other than the usual ones here:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/432749/the-opamp-thread/4395#post_9441114


 
  Ah many thanks , thats great work , very interesting , a big thanks from me


----------



## Edgard Varese

Quote: 





whirlwind said:


> I received my OPA2107 opamp the other day.
> 
> I am really enjoying it in my LD1+


 
I just ordered two free samples of the 2107 from TI, and I picked up a matched pair of Voshkod 6J1P-EV tubes, and I'm still waiting on delivery of the Little Dot I+... I'm getting started even before it arrives.


----------



## whirlwind

Quote: 





edgard varese said:


> I just ordered two free samples of the 2107 from TI, and I picked up a matched pair of Voshkod 6J1P-EV tubes, and I'm still waiting on delivery of the Little Dot I+... I'm getting started even before it arrives.


 
  Congrats, it is a great little amp.....have fun.


----------



## autoteleology

This isn't specifically about tube rolling, but I'm having a problem with my Little Dot 1+. The right channel is massively distorted while the left channel seems just fine. I have swapped tube channels and the results remained the same. I have also swapped the fuses and that is not the problem. What do you think is the issue?


----------



## Mario_Fpolis

10 minutes after intalling it, the Audio-Gd Moon HDAM, is working.
   
  First impressions? Totally constipated, but, since I´ve read that this HDAM takes forever in burning in, I´ll wait.


----------



## gibosi

Quote: 





tus-chan said:


> This isn't specifically about tube rolling, but I'm having a problem with my Little Dot 1+. The right channel is massively distorted while the left channel seems just fine. I have swapped tube channels and the results remained the same. I have also swapped the fuses and that is not the problem. What do you think is the issue?


 
   
  By swapping tube channels, I assume you have swapped the tubes left to right and right to left, and you have also tried another set of tubes....
   
  The only thing I can think of are the circuit board jumpers. Perhaps one of them has worked itself loose. Open your amp up and check two sets of jumpers:
   
  1) the jumpers (K1 and K2) that select 6.3 volts or 20 volts, and
   
  2) the jumpers (J3 and J4)  that select for low impedance versus high impedance headphones.
   
  (I believe you are using EF95 tubes, so it is unlikely that you have J1 and J2 installed which allows the use of EF91/92 tubes.)
   
  And while you have the amp open, push down on the op amp to make sure it is seated well.
   
  Good luck!


----------



## autoteleology

Thanks for your response. However, I opened up the amp for a second look and found something that I am nearly positive is the problem (or at least the symptom of one); there are two burnt/charred/ashen resistors on the right side of the circuit board. Orienting the amp so the bottom plate is removed, the amp is upside down, with the volume knob to the top right, the burned resistors are on the edge of the right side horizontally, middle area vertically on the circuit board. The burnt resistors are on the right side of the yellow bricks that are labeled "1J2A", or inbetween the first and second screws from the inside of the chassis on the right side of the case.
   

   

   
  Judging by the resistor colors on the other channel, the resistors are rated at 10 ohms with a tolerance of 10%. I have circuit board V2.1, which is different from the circuit board used in picture #2, which is only used to display the location of the named screws on the side of the chassis.


----------



## gibosi

Quote: 





tus-chan said:


> Thanks for your response. However, I opened up the amp for a second look and found something that I am nearly positive is the problem (or at least the symptom of one); there are two burnt/charred/ashen resistors on the right side of the circuit board.


 
   
  Good detective work! If you don't mind my asking....  Do you intend to send it back to Little Dot for repair? Or will you try to fix it yourself?


----------



## autoteleology

I have no idea. I don't think Little Dot will even look at my amp if I'm not the original owner, and I only have passing soldering experience and no equipment to do so to boot. I might just take the thing to some random electronics shop and tell them to replace the resistors.


----------



## gibosi

Good luck! And I, for one, hope you will keep us informed.
   
  Cheers


----------



## shipsupt

Those resistors were probably pretty hot when you were running for an extended period at max volume considering how close they are to those transistors on the heat sinks.  They should be rated for some pretty high temperatures, but considering you were pushing the amp hard and they might have been slightly under-spec'd for the service... 
   
  There is a good chance that you'll be back in business after replace the resistors.
   
   
  Quote: 





tus-chan said:


> Judging by the resistor colors on the other channel, the resistors are rated at 10 ohms with a tolerance of 10%. I have circuit board V2.1, which is different from the circuit board used in picture #2, which is only used to display the location of the named screws on the side of the chassis.


----------



## gibosi

Quote: 





mario_fpolis said:


> 10 minutes after intalling it, the Audio-Gd Moon HDAM, is working.


 
   
  So....  you purchased the Dual OPA with the standard extension lead and simply plugged it into your opamp socket? Very interesting!
   
  Any further impressions?


----------



## Mario_Fpolis

[size=9pt]Gibosi, [/size]
   
[size=9pt]Pretty much it, I borrowed from a friend, ask protection to the Godess of DIY and plugged it, hoping for the better.[/size]
   
[size=9pt]Soud wise, still a long way in burning it, it remains very congested, the vocals like constipated, but I have a lot of hope in this HDAM.[/size]
   
[size=9pt]The HDAM away form the cabinet is getting a lot of EFI and EMI, so I´ll put some copper tape around it, in order to achieve some silent background.[/size]
   
[size=9pt]This week I´ll put my hands on a 627 and next week a good friend of mine with a HF-1 will be here in order to evaluate this HDAM and opamp, when the Moon module will be fully burnt, I presume.[/size]


----------



## gibosi

Thanks for the update. The idea of an HDAM is very intriguing to me and I look forward to learning more about your experience with it.


----------



## Edgard Varese

Quote: 





whirlwind said:


> Congrats, it is a great little amp.....have fun.


 
  Thanks, looking forward to its arrival... hopefully tomorrow.


----------



## Edgard Varese

Little Dot is here.  I did a bit of A/Bing with the emu0202 headphone amp (I'm running the line out from the emu0202 into the Little Dot) and the difference is incredible, even just out of the box (with stock tubes and op amp).  I'm going to get accustomed to this setup before rolling in the Voshkod tubes...


----------



## gibosi

Quote: 





edgard varese said:


> Little Dot is here.  I did a bit of A/Bing with the emu0202 headphone amp (I'm running the line out from the emu0202 into the Little Dot) and the difference is incredible, even just out of the box (with stock tubes and op amp).  I'm going to get accustomed to this setup before rolling in the Voshkod tubes...


 
   
  Glad to hear you are liking it. And it only gets better as you begin to explore other tubes and op amps.


----------



## autoteleology

The Little Dot is out for repair, and hopefully will come back good as new (actually, _better than new_, considering I got it defective) by the time I am through my vacation. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  It's actually kind of a shame that I upgraded to a real Stax amp and no longer need this to feed my energizer.


----------



## sling5s

Went through briefly the thread.  I have Grado RS1.  Used to have MAD EAR but considering Little Dot 1+ for the RS1.
  It seems the recommended opamps are: op2107 and LT1364cn8
  Recommend Tubes: Mullard M8161 and Mullard ef91
   
  Which is best?
   
  thanks
   
  I see that the M8161 is part of the EF92 Family of tubes.
   
  I see now that the EF92: M8161 with op2107 is probably the best followed by Mullard CV131


----------



## sling5s

Mullard M8161 or Mullard CV131 or Mullard CV4010 for Grado RS1?


----------



## gibosi

Quote: 





sling5s said:


> Mullard M8161 or Mullard CV131 or Mullard CV4010 for Grado RS1?


 
   
  CVNNNN numbered tubes (that is CV + 4 digits) are the improved version of CVNNN (3 digits), and are generally considered be to better. Also, M8161 and CV131 are EF92, whereas CV4010 is EF95. So if you are thinking of getting an M8161 or CV131, I would recommend that you look for the improved CV4015. If you want an EF91, the best tube in my experience is the GEC CV4014.
   
  It can be somewhat confusing, I know....
   
  CV4010 = EF95
  CV4014 = EF91
  CV131 < CV4015 = EF92
   
  As to which might go best with Grado headphones, sorry, I can't help you....


----------



## sling5s

Sorry, stupid question again, but do you only need one op2107 or a pair for this amp?


----------



## gibosi

Quote: 





sling5s said:


> Sorry, stupid question again, but do you only need one op2107 or a pair for this amp?


 
   
  This is a dual op amp, so you need only one of them.
   
http://www.ti.com/product/opa2107


----------



## sling5s

thanks


----------



## Sony Slave

Quote: 





gibosi said:


> This is a dual op amp, so you need only one of them.
> 
> http://www.ti.com/product/opa2107


 
  Do you have any idea what Tubes would be best suited for the Shure SRH440's? I would like more bass, more resolving highs, and a much longer decay if possible.
   
  Hope you can help.


----------



## gibosi

Quote: 





sony slave said:


> Do you have any idea what Tubes would be best suited for the Shure SRH440's? I would like more bass, more resolving highs, and a much longer decay if possible.
> 
> Hope you can help.


 
   
  I am not familiar with the Shure SRH440, so I don't have a clue. But even so, it would be very helpful to know what tubes you are using now.


----------



## Sony Slave

Quote: 





gibosi said:


> I am not familiar with the Shure SRH440, so I don't have a clue. But even so, it would be very helpful to know what tubes you are using now.


 
  I don't have a an amp yet, I plan on buying it tomorrow  that's when I get paid, so hypothetically I would be using the stock tubes.
  I know, I know it sounds dumb, I wan't advice on something I never heard before, but I just want some sort of idea of what too look for.


----------



## gibosi

Quote: 





sony slave said:


> I don't have a an amp yet, I plan on buying it tomorrow  that's when I get paid, so hypothetically I would be using the stock tubes.
> I know, I know it sounds dumb, I wan't advice on something I never heard before, but I just want some sort of idea of what too look for.


 
   
  Unless you are getting upgraded tubes, I feel quite safe in saying that almost any tube you get will be an improvement over the stock Chinese tubes.
   
  In the meantime, go to page one of the "Little Dot Tube Amps: Vacuum Tube Rolling Guide" forum. There you will find an excellent introduction to the standard tubes which can be used in your Little Dot which will help you decide which tubes you might want to try.
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide


----------



## gibosi

LME49990 opamp
   
  Perhaps like a lot of forum members, shortly after purchasing my LD 1+, I rolled in a OPA2107 opamp, and for sure at the time, I felt it was a significant improvement over stock. Recently however, I have been feeling that this chip is rather dark, as it seems the highs are rolled off to some degree, and I have been searching for other opamps to try. One that stood out was the LME49990. Actually this is a single opamp, so it is necessary to install two of them on a DIP8 adapter. As I am not all that comfortable with a soldering iron, I purchased a pre-assembled unit from this vendor:
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUAL-SOIC-LME49990-DIP8-ADAPTER-/190888281070?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item2c71d403ee
   
  I rolled it in last night and based on my impressions so far, this chip delivers on all counts. The base has more weight and slam than the OPA2107 and the mids are more neutral. In contrast, the mids on the OPA2107 are a bit more forward, and sometimes vocals almost seem to come across as a bit shouty. And the highs... Extended, clean and clear, with a bit of sparkle. Not rolled off like the OPA2107. So in a nutshell, this is a very neutral and transparent opamp which allows the true nature of the driver tubes to shine through. In fact, some tubes that I had previously thought too forward, are now much easier on my ears and even quite pleasant.
   
  In short, I am very pleased with this opamp, but I am not all that surprised. I figured that if these opamps were specifically selected for use in the Parasound Halo CD 1, they just might be good enough for my 1+. lol
   
  Recommended


----------



## Iron58p

Hi Gibosi
   
  this is my forst post here, yesterday was arrived my Little dot I+ with Valvo 6CQ6.
   
  I have taken from you and other people on this forum the fever of tube rolling  
   
  Fist thing : the tubes Valvo are not hot until now, but have a temperature a little bit more than human body, and are increasing slowly from the first moment ; may be it's normal, and between some days things will be normal.
   
  Looking for your last post ( thank's for sharing !! ), are arriving 2 opa LME49990 insatalled on a DIP8 adapter.
   
  I need your help please, mavy tubes are arriving ( looking for your impressions ), and for some of these i will cut away 2 pins, but i don't want to cut the wrong pins.
  For now i prefer to cut pins then strapping.
   
  Sorry for my basic english, i live in Italy.
   
  And then, if you can, write what configuration ( EF92 or EF95 ) for each couple of tubes so i can stamp your reply for the future rolling :
   
  Siemens 6AK5W
   
  Telekunken EH 900S
   
  Tesla 6F32-6AK5
   
  Lorenz 6AV6-EBC91
   
  Mullard CV4015 
   
  Sylvania 6AV6
   
  Miniwatt Z&I EH90 6CS6
   
  Ibm 1680 6BE6
   
  Russian 6A2P 6BE6 EK90
   
  Jan GE 5654W 6AK5 CV4010
   
  Voskhod 6J1P-EV (EF95 6F32 6AK7 Gold-Platinum grid
   
  Thank's for the help 
   
 Quote: 





gibosi said:


> LME49990 opamp
> 
> Perhaps like a lot of forum members, shortly after purchasing my LD 1+, I rolled in a OPA2107 opamp, and for sure at the time, I felt it was a significant improvement over stock. Recently however, I have been feeling that this chip is rather dark, as it seems the highs are rolled off to some degree, and I have been searching for other opamps to try. One that stood out was the LME49990. Actually this is a single opamp, so it is necessary to install two of them on a DIP8 adapter. As I am not all that comfortable with a soldering iron, I purchased a pre-assembled unit from this vendor:
> 
> ...


----------



## gibosi

Hello Iron58p,
   
  First it is normal for tubes to run hot. And some tubes run hotter than others....
   
  > I need your help please, mavy tubes are arriving ( looking for your impressions ), and for some of these i will cut away 2 pins, but i don't want to cut the wrong pins.
  > For now i prefer to cut pins then strapping.
   
  For sonic impressions of these tubes, I suggest you check out the "Little Dot Tube Amps: Vacuum Tube Rolling Guide" forum:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide#post_7625989
   
  At the top and bottom of the page, you will see a magnifying glass and the text "Search this Thread". Use this feature to search for impressions on any tubes you are interested in.
   
   

   Siemens 6AK5W  (EF95)
   
  Telekunken EH 900S  (EF95 or EF92 - choose the one that sounds best to you. However, I prefer EF95, pins 1 and 7 strapped)
   
  Tesla 6F32-6AK5  (EF95)
   
  Lorenz 6AV6-EBC91  (EF92 and cut pins 5 and 6)
   
  Mullard CV4015   (EF92)
   
  Sylvania 6AV6  (EF92 and cut pins 5 and 6)
   
  Miniwatt Z&I EH90 6CS6  (EF95 or EF92 - choose the one that sounds best to you. However, I prefer EF95, pins 1 and 7 strapped)
   
  Ibm 1680 6BE6  (EF95 or EF92 - choose the one that sounds best to you. However, I prefer EF95, pins 1 and 7 strapped)
   
  Russian 6A2P 6BE6 EK90  (EF95 or EF92 - choose the one that sounds best to you)
   
  Jan GE 5654W 6AK5 CV4010  (EF95)
   
  Voskhod 6J1P-EV (EF95 6F32 6AK7 Gold-Platinum grid  (EF95)
   
  Check out post 1154 on page 77 in the "Little Dot Tube Amps: Vacuum Tube Rolling Guide" forum for more info on how to use these tubes:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/1140#post_9392055
   
   
   

  How to determine which pins to cut in order to use 6AT6/EBC90 and 6AV6/EBC91 tubes:

   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/1065#post_9363431
   
  (Ignore info about the 6J4. The 6AT6/EBC90 and 6AV6/EBC91 tubes sound much better....
   
  And a picture: Pins 5 and 6 are cut off. Pin 7 is on the left.
   

   
  Happy tube rolling!


----------



## Iron58p

Thank's again Gibosi for your kindness.
   
  I am  a novice about tube rolling, but i have 5 ampli and many headphone, including Alessandro MSPRO, and i love that sound.
   
  I have read the thread "Little Dot Tube Amps: Vacuum Tube Rolling Guide", but is hard to remember the info fragmented, is very long.
   
  You wrote : "Ignore info about the 6J4. The 6AT6/EBC90 and 6AV6/EBC91 tubes sound much better....", that mean " EF92 and cut pins 5 and 6" is what you want to tell ?
   
  And again, if i don't cut 2 pin, what can happen ? that the music quality is not good or i can damage something ?
   
  And if i cut 2 pins and i wrong the number for example, there is a way to go back to the original ?
   
  I am thinking, what is the more easy mode between cut and strapping pins, but in that sense i have no experience to decide.
   
  First, i don't know what kind of metal is used for strapping, i have read that must be stranded wire and thin.
  Ehm, 26 gauge what mean ? i don't know what mean gauge.
   
  Second, i must to find a nipper very small.


----------



## gibosi

Quote: 





iron58p said:


> Thank's again Gibosi for your kindness.
> 
> I am  a novice about tube rolling, but i have 5 ampli and many headphone, including Alessandro MSPRO, and i love that sound.
> 
> ...


 
   
  You must cut pins 5 and 6 and use the EF92 setting to listen to 6AT6/EBC90 and 6AV6/EBC91 tubes. It is the only way. If you do not cut the pins, there is no damage, but then you will hear nothing. And of course, if you cut the wrong pins, the tube is worthless. You cannot put the pins back on the tube. I suggest that you purchase 5 or 10 very cheap 6AV6, so you can practice cutting pins. After you have had success cutting pins on a few really cheap tubes, you will feel more comfortable cutting pins on more expensive ones.  
   
  And yes, you will need to purchase a pair of wire cutters like this:
   
   
   
  If you decide to strap, I suggest 28 or 30 gauge stranded wire. "Gauge" is the standard way to indicate wire thickness. The bigger the number, the smaller the wire. So 26 gauge is thicker than 30 gauge. If you have a pair of cheap broken IEMs, that wire is very small and should be perfectly fine.


----------



## levinhatz

I have to say, the Sylvania Gold Brand 408A is by far my favorite tube to use with the Little Dot 1+, no matter which headphone I use with it.
   
  IMHO, soundstage, imaging, detail, and bass quality can't be beat with this tube. 
   
  Just sayin'.......


----------



## Oskari

Quote: 





gibosi said:


> "Gauge" is the standard way to indicate wire thickness.


 
   
  Only on your side of the pond. Most of us have gone metric: http://www.canford.co.uk/Technical/PDFs/EN/MetricAwgWireSizeEquivalents.pdf


----------



## gibosi

Quote: 





levinhatz said:


> I have to say, the Sylvania Gold Brand 408A is by far my favorite tube to use with the Little Dot 1+, no matter which headphone I use with it.
> 
> IMHO, soundstage, imaging, detail, and bass quality can't be beat with this tube.
> 
> Just sayin'.......


 
   
  If you are comparing these only to the standard EF91, EF92 and EF95 tubes, I would agree with you. The Sylvania 408A with gold pins are indeed superb. However, if you go beyond the standard tubes to include, for example, 6AH6, 6AU6, 6AV6, 6BY6, 6CS6, 6DT6 and 6EB6, there are any number of tubes that far exceed them, IMHO.....


----------



## levinhatz

Quote: 





gibosi said:


> If you are comparing these only to the standard EF91, EF92 and EF95 tubes, I would agree with you. The Sylvania 408A with gold pins are indeed superb. However, if you go beyond the standard tubes to include, for example, 6AH6, 6AU6, 6AV6, 6BY6, 6CS6, 6DT6 and 6EB6, there are any number of tubes that far exceed them, IMHO.....


 
   
  Surprised that those will work with the LD1+ as the manual specifically lists 5654, EF92, and 408A as the "only" tube families that the LD can take. What jumper settings does one use for those tubes? Same ones as EF92?


----------



## gibosi

Quote: 





levinhatz said:


> Surprised that those will work with the LD1+ as the manual specifically lists 5654, EF92, and 408A as the "only" tube families that the LD can take. What jumper settings does one use for those tubes? Same ones as EF92?


 
   
  In the Little Dot tube rolling forum, page 77, you will find a chart indicating how to use these tubes.
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/1140#post_9392055
   
  Some tubes are simply "plug and play". And some require small tweaks which are relatively easy to accomplish, either by cutting pins, or inserting a small piece of wire into the socket holes (from the top) in order to connect certain pins together. For example, to use the 6AV6 triode, set your LD up for EF92 and cut off pins 5 and 6. To use the 6AU6 and 6AH6, set your LD up for EF95 and insert a very small piece (28 gauge or smaller) of stranded wire into the socket to connect pin-holes 2 and 7.
   
  Cheers


----------



## Iron58p

Great Gibosi !!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I've recived today LME49990 opamp, must make more burn in, but i can say that first thing that i noted is  : refined, transparent, clean, treble are very detailed and come outside more ( and what quality !!) then previous opa.
  
 Generally, for bass, medium, hight, is one not small step more high than stock opamp.
 Part where they improve more ? No doubt, highs !
  
 Until now, thanks of the good advice, no one of the tubes and opamp i was wrong.
  
  
  
  
 Quote:


gibosi said:


> LME49990 opamp
> 
> Perhaps like a lot of forum members, shortly after purchasing my LD 1+, I rolled in a OPA2107 opamp, and for sure at the time, I felt it was a significant improvement over stock. Recently however, I have been feeling that this chip is rather dark, as it seems the highs are rolled off to some degree, and I have been searching for other opamps to try. One that stood out was the LME49990. Actually this is a single opamp, so it is necessary to install two of them on a DIP8 adapter. As I am not all that comfortable with a soldering iron, I purchased a pre-assembled unit from this vendor:
> 
> ...


----------



## VBen

It's a little of topic but is it true that you need to turn the Little Dot 1+ off and let it cool after some hours use? And if so - why is it necessary? I have used tubes in preamps, cd-players and headamps before and never had any problems whatsoever. Does it get very hot or is it the wattage rating of the resistors?

 Best regards,
 VB (soon to be Little Dot owner)


----------



## Edgard Varese

vben said:


> It's a little of topic but is it true that you need to turn the Little Dot 1+ off and let it cool after some hours use? And if so - why is it necessary? I have used tubes in preamps, cd-players and headamps before and never had any problems whatsoever. Does it get very hot or is it the wattage rating of the resistors?
> 
> Best regards,
> VB (soon to be Little Dot owner)


 
  
 David Zhe Zhe says that it should be switched off to cool after eight hours of use, though I am not sure why.


----------



## shipsupt

There have been a few reports of some heat damage and resistors failing near some of the actives that get very hot when the amp was used for extended sessions.  I'd say using the 8 hour rule of thumb for a cool down is likely good practice for this amp.


----------



## VBen

shipsupt said:


> There have been a few reports of some heat damage and resistors failing near some of the actives that get very hot when the amp was used for extended sessions.  I'd say using the 8 hour rule of thumb for a cool down is likely good practice for this amp.


 
  
 Ok, thank you for the answer. When I get it I probably try to check where it gets hot. Maybe some parts can be changed or given better cooling. I don't like to turn off preamps and such (its probably all those years using Black Gate capacitors).
  
  I'm really looking forward to getting the Little Dot though. My Musical Fidelity X-Can V2 "kicked the bucket" last week, and I'm hoping that the 1+ can surpass it. Soundwise at least.


----------



## VBen

Just received the Little Dot 1+ this week, but alas one of the tubes was a dud. Luckily enough I had bought a pair of Voskods just in case. The amp sounds very good already but how long does it take to burn it fully in, and what kind of changes can I expect?
  
 Regards, VB


----------



## gibosi

vben said:


> Just received the Little Dot 1+ this week, but alas one of the tubes was a dud. Luckily enough I had bought a pair of Voskods just in case. The amp sounds very good already but how long does it take to burn it fully in, and what kind of changes can I expect?
> 
> Regards, VB


 
  
 Tubes generally take anywhere from 20 to 50 hours to burn-in. With respect to the entire amp, I would guess that 50 to 100 hours for a brand-new amp is not an unreasonable. That said, I suggest that you not worry about this, but just listen and enjoy.


----------



## VBen

Sound advice indeed! The bass is very very strong at the moment and the soundstage is a bit "underdeveloped". I'll guess that some burn-in will do the trick....Or another set of tubes.


----------



## autoteleology

Asking how long a tube takes to burn-in is like asking how long a light bulb takes to burn in, and how many problems has anyone had with that?


----------



## gibosi

tus-chan said:


> Asking how long a tube takes to burn-in is like asking how long a light bulb takes to burn in, and how many problems has anyone had with that?


 
  
 It isn't really a problem. However, the sonic signature of a tube will often change during burn-in. Sometimes these changes are very subtle but sometimes they can be quite dramatic. Therefore, it is best to thoroughly burn your tubes in before making a final evaluation.


----------



## VBen

Hello, again!
  
 Can somebody (who has experience with the Voskhod 6ZH1P-EV) recommend alternative tubes with more musicality? Details, bass etc. is amazing, but the "foot-tapping" quality seems to be missing. I have the stock op-amp so perhaps that's part of the problem. Please advice. By the way - I'm using Grado.


----------



## gibosi

vben said:


> Can somebody (who has experience with the Voskhod 6ZH1P-EV) recommend alternative tubes with more musicality? Details, bass etc. is amazing, but the "foot-tapping" quality seems to be missing. I have the stock op-amp so perhaps that's part of the problem. Please advice. By the way - I'm using Grado.


 
  
 There are better op amps....  I like the LME49990 as it is very neutral. However, one of my colleagues, who also uses Grado, prefers the OPA627AP, which is a tad bit warmer.
  
  
 - RCA 6DT6  Set your LD for EF92 tubes.
  
 - GE (Made in Gt Britain by Mullard) or Ei (Made in Yugoslavia) 6HM5 (also listed as 6HA5 and EC900). Set your LD for EF95 tubes. Avoid the small squat tubes that look like 6AK5. Look for the taller tubes.
  
  
 Example listings to show what these tubes look like:
  
 RCA 6DT6
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-VINTAGE-RCA-6DT6A-NOS-VACUUM-TUBES-TESTED-STRONG-AUDIO-HAM-RADIO-AMPLIFIER-2-/251243281264?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3a7f443b70
  
 GE / Mullard 6HM5
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-GE-6HM5-6HA5-BLACKBURN-MULLARD-MADE-VACUUM-TUBE-TESTED-AUDIO-RADIO-/270927668081?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3f148c2371
  
 Ei 6HM5
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6HM5-6HA5-EC900-export-quality-audio-triode-tube-NOS-FREE-SHIPPING-/300879467071?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item460dd0523f
  
 Sylvania also made 6HM5s, but I haven't tried them....
  
 Happy tube rolling!


----------



## VBen

Thanks gibosi! A thorough answer and very much appreciated. There sure are some helpful guys on this thread.
  
 Regards, VB


----------



## VBen

Just a few follow up questions - do the above mentioned tubes need some kind of strapping between the pins, and is it a reason for concern that some of the tubes draw a bit more heater current from the transformer than the stock 6J1?


----------



## gibosi

vben said:


> Just a few follow up questions - do the above mentioned tubes need some kind of strapping between the pins, and is it a reason for concern that some of the tubes draw a bit more heater current from the transformer than the stock 6J1?


 
  
 These tubes do not require any strapping. And heater current is not a problem. The EF91 draws .3 amps, and considering that Little Dot recommends that tube, the 6DT6 also at .3 amps is within spec. In fact, the 6DT6 actually runs quite a bit cooler than the EF91. Further, I have personally run a number of .45 amp tubes with no problems whatsoever.
  
 Cheers


----------



## VBen

Great! Tubes and op-amp based on your recommendations are already ordered. I have no time to waste on unmusical hifi.


----------



## kvtaco17

gibosi said:


> There are better op amps....  I like the LME49990 as it is very neutral. However, one of my colleagues, who also uses Grado, prefers the OPA627AP, which is a tad bit warmer.
> 
> 
> - RCA 6DT6  Set your LD for EF92 tubes.
> ...


 
  
 Both great opamps! (I prefer the OPA627AP but use both dependent on tube and mood)
  
 I'm a huge 6DT6 advocate lol My personal favorites being the RCS black plate and Sylvania grey plate (make sure both are smooth plates not the ribbed) The RCA's are good for a warmer sound, the Sylvania's are more dynamic and closer to neutral.


----------



## Sony Slave

delete.


----------



## bundy

Hi to all,I have just received my ld1+ with stock tubes 6J1 i have also ordered a matched pair of Philips 5654 E95F. my problem is i am totaly new to this tube rolling well to be honest i know nothing at all about tubes. So after ordering & paying for the tubes i noticed they are E95F not EF95 does this make a differance? Everything i have read has said that not only do the 5654 tubes suit my LD1+ i also don't need to change any jump settings from 6J1 ? please help a keen newbee...


----------



## Melvins

what cans are you guys using your LD1+ with?


----------



## Edgard Varese

melvins said:


> what cans are you guys using your LD1+ with?


 
 RS1i, MS1, AKG K612, all play nicely together.


----------



## SJWorne

Hey guys, it's my birthday soon and I will be getting the little dot amp and hopefully will be swapping tubes and opamps in the future, but as i'm pretty new to the whole tube thing i'm just browsing at options on here.
  
 I read somewhere about Sylvania tubes being epic tubes, and when I saw someone mention the Sylvania Grey Plate tube I thought I would google it... $125?!?!  Are they worth the money?  Are the Sylvania tubes in general 'good' tubes?  I like things that I buy to be a quality product and have a bit of prestige to them... would something like that be a good purchase or not?


----------



## kvtaco17

melvins said:


> what cans are you guys using your LD1+ with?


 
 SR80i, PS500, Magnum V5, AD2000x, HD800 (works alright, you could a little more juice lol)


----------



## kvtaco17

sjworne said:


> Hey guys, it's my birthday soon and I will be getting the little dot amp and hopefully will be swapping tubes and opamps in the future, but as i'm pretty new to the whole tube thing i'm just browsing at options on here.
> 
> I read somewhere about Sylvania tubes being epic tubes, and when I saw someone mention the Sylvania Grey Plate tube I thought I would google it... $125?!?!  Are they worth the money?  Are the Sylvania tubes in general 'good' tubes?  I like things that I buy to be a quality product and have a bit of prestige to them... would something like that be a good purchase or not?


 
 What? I think your looking at the wrong tubes...


----------



## Edgard Varese

sjworne said:


> Hey guys, it's my birthday soon and I will be getting the little dot amp and hopefully will be swapping tubes and opamps in the future, but as i'm pretty new to the whole tube thing i'm just browsing at options on here.
> 
> I read somewhere about Sylvania tubes being epic tubes, and when I saw someone mention the Sylvania Grey Plate tube I thought I would google it... $125?!?!  Are they worth the money?  Are the Sylvania tubes in general 'good' tubes?  I like things that I buy to be a quality product and have a bit of prestige to them... would something like that be a good purchase or not?


 
 Good tubes for the LD I + should run you $20/pair tops and usually a lot less than that.  Never buy tubes that are more expensive than the amp...


----------



## SJWorne

edgard varese said:


> Good tubes for the LD I + should run you $20/pair tops and usually a lot less than that.  Never buy tubes that are more expensive than the amp...


 
 Thanks, I guess I will just follow what you guys are recommending on here!
  


kvtaco17 said:


> What? I think your looking at the wrong tubes...


 
 As I said, I have no idea about tubes, i'm new to this 
  
 But these are the tubes I saw: http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/Sylvania-Grey-Plate-5751.html


----------



## Melvins

edgard varese said:


> Good tubes for the LD I + should run you $20/pair tops and usually a lot less than that.  Never buy tubes that are more expensive than the amp...


 
 i think i paid like 10 bucks or so for the ones in my description.
  
  
 i would never pay more than 20 for any pair of tubes


----------



## Edgard Varese

sjworne said:


> Thanks, I guess I will just follow what you guys are recommending on here!
> 
> As I said, I have no idea about tubes, i'm new to this
> 
> But these are the tubes I saw: http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/Sylvania-Grey-Plate-5751.html


 
 Those aren't suitable for the LD I+ without some significant modification.  You'd do at least as well to get a pair of RCA 6DT6A tubes (not in the original specs but these have been determined to work... I am using them right at this moment) which I think cost me $4 plus shipping, and they sound great.


----------



## kvtaco17

edgard varese said:


> Those aren't suitable for the LD I+ without some significant modification.  You'd do at least as well to get a pair of RCA 6DT6A tubes (not in the original specs but these have been determined to work... I am using them right at this moment) which I think cost me $4 plus shipping, and they sound great.


 
 He's probably thinking of the Sylvania 6DT6A tubes with the grey plates... similar to the RCA's but not as warm... gives the impression of more detail and air. like these...
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/VACUUM-TUBE-6DT6A-SYLVANIA-NOS-6DT6-A-/370105427244?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item562c00a52c
  
 OR go the 6HM5 route (I really am liking these a lot too... )
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/RADIO-VACUUM-TUBES-6HA5-6HM5-SYLVANIA-PR-triode-preamp-audio-stereo-tuner-ham-/171145021808?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item27d909c970


----------



## SJWorne

kvtaco17 said:


> He's probably thinking of the Sylvania 6DT6A tubes with the grey plates... similar to the RCA's but not as warm... gives the impression of more detail and air. like these...
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/VACUUM-TUBE-6DT6A-SYLVANIA-NOS-6DT6-A-/370105427244?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item562c00a52c
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ahh I see!
 Will have a good look around and try and get a nice pair!


----------



## Melvins

i would like to try out a bunch of tubes talked about here but Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV EF95 seem to be at the top of most lists...
  
  
 so i think i'm content with where i'm at. 
  
  
 and not to mention the sound i've been getting is stellar. so. idk. coming to this site is really terrible for ones wallet. i have an amazing, multi hundred dollar set up, and i still want MOREEE. 
  
  
 but why? my set up sounds FANTASTIC to my ears. it's just the presence of other opinions/reviews i guess.


----------



## Taveren

Hi Guys,
  
 I have just recently received a Little Dot I+ from one of our bros here and it comes with a pair of Mullard M8100 and the stock 6J1 tubes. The opamp has been changed to LT1364.
  
 My initial listening sessions with the Mullard tubes then switching to my Solid state desk top amp/dac back and forth, I can't really tell the difference, I mean there is a minimal improvement in the bass but not really noticeable. I was expecting to hear a distinctive "tube flavor".
  
 I was thinking maybe the Mullard M8100 is a bit more clinical than most tubes so it is not as "tubey" (or it is not yet burned in)
  
 Having said that, please recommend a good tube that will best deliver that "tube flavor" that differentiates (hybrid) tube amps to solid states. and if possible a reliable seller.
  
 Thank you for your time


----------



## VBen

> There are better op amps.... I like the LME49990 as it is very neutral. However, one of my colleagues, who also uses Grado, prefers the OPA627AP, which is a tad bit warmer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Just an update. Alas all of the tubes recommended by gibosi hummed to much in my setup with Grado (a borrowed Sennheiser HD650 was quiet). I had to settle for a pair of Philips Miniwatt TS62 With OPA2107 (the LME499990 sounded too threadbare and cold with these tubes). As of now just the Philips and the Voshkods are silent at my house. Strange! But on the other hand - the musicality is back an the amp sounds quite good at the moment. In other words I recommend the TS62 to others in a similar situation.

Regards, V


----------



## kvtaco17

Did you clean the pins on the tubes ip with some sandpaper? A lot of times the hum can be traced to a dirty connection or outside interference. Did you try moving your amp around? Did you make sure your cell phone is away from your rig? The tubes recommended by gibosi are the same id normally recommend, and I know they don't hum normally...


----------



## gibosi

vben said:


> Just an update. Alas all of the tubes recommended by gibosi hummed to much in my setup with Grado (a borrowed Sennheiser HD650 was quiet). I had to settle for a pair of Philips Miniwatt TS62 With OPA2107 (the LME499990 sounded too threadbare and cold with these tubes). As of now just the Philips and the Voshkods are silent at my house. Strange! But on the other hand - the musicality is back an the amp sounds quite good at the moment. In other words I recommend the TS62 to others in a similar situation.


 
  
 Sorry to hear that these tubes are not working for you. But I think it is worth noting that many of us in the main LD tube-rolling forum have found these tubes to be excellent, not only in the 1+, but also in the II, III and IV. In fact, no one else has reported this problem. So I am very comfortable in stating that these tubes are not inherently noisy. Perhaps you received some bad tubes....
  
 And the LME49990 is regarded as a very neutral chip so you are not the only one who feels that it is lacking warmth. But the fact that some prefer one chip (or piece of gear) and others prefer something different is one of the things that makes audio so much fun and interesting. Cheers.


----------



## VBen

No, I haven't tried sandpaper but the hum changes when I put my hands close to the tubes and the amp. There definitely is some kind of interference involved. I have tried to shield the tubes with aluminium and the hum quiets down somewhat but not enough. Maybe I have ground issues in my setup. What I can not understand is why some tubes have interference and some don't.
  
 V


----------



## kvtaco17

Try moving the amp away from anything that could cause interference...


----------



## VBen

> So I am very comfortable in stating that these tubes are not inherently noisy. Perhaps you received some bad tubes....


 
 You are indeed right! The tubes were the culprits. Just found a pair of Sylvania 6DT6 that didn't hum. To bad I liked the humming EI 6HM5 much better. Sylvania was way to sharp sounding for my taste. Interestingly enough while measuring the heaters on the amp I found out that the amp uses AC for heating 6.3V tubes while 20V tubes gets DC. The unregulated AC goes up as high as 6.9V at my house, while the regulated DC "stays firm" at 19.7V. So I'll guess that the latter type of tubes (TS62, 408A etc.) will last a bit longer in my amp.


----------



## gibosi

vben said:


> You are indeed right! The tubes were the culprits. Just found a pair of Sylvania 6DT6 that didn't hum. To bad I liked the humming EI 6HM5 much better. Sylvania was way to sharp sounding for my taste. Interestingly enough while measuring the heaters on the amp I found out that the amp uses AC for heating 6.3V tubes while 20V tubes gets DC. The unregulated AC goes up as high as 6.9V at my house, while the regulated DC "stays firm" at 19.7V. So I'll guess that the latter type of tubes (TS62, 408A etc.) will last a bit longer in my amp.


 
  
 I wouldn't give up on those tubes just yet. It is not uncommon for new tubes to hum and buzz. But there is an excellent chance that after about 20 hours of use they will quiet down.


----------



## VBen

Hello again. I needed to use chassis connected tube shields to tame the humming. Not very pretty but it worked very well indeed. But even so - the TS62 is still my favorite tube on the Little dot 1+. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that I have removed the unnecessary input capacitor in the amp. It's all about synergy I'll guess.


----------



## autoteleology

If anyone is looking to get set up with one of these units and a bunch of tubes, I've got one up for sale, just look in my sig.


----------



## mindwar

hello,
 i've just bought the LD I+ for my k701. it should get here tomorrow so i'm excited about that . now for some opamp/tube rolling .
 i've gone over the entire thread and it seems like the LM4562 and OPA2107 opamps are the most popular choices and im looking to try them out.
 i've found these on ebay (searching for the names, worldwide, sorting by lowest +p&p 1st).
LM4562 and OPA2107
 are these the correct opamps i need for the amp? any other opamp i REALY NEED to look at? since they're this cheep i figure i could experiment.


----------



## gibosi

mindwar said:


> hello,
> i've just bought the LD I+ for my k701. it should get here tomorrow so i'm excited about that . now for some opamp/tube rolling .
> i've gone over the entire thread and it seems like the LM4562 and OPA2107 opamps are the most popular choices and im looking to try them out.
> i've found these on ebay (searching for the names, worldwide, sorting by lowest +p&p 1st).
> ...


 
  
 You might also want to try the LME49990 and OPA627AP. 
  
 After spending time with the stock MC33078, an OPA2107, and then an LME 49990, my current op amp is the MUSES02, and for me, it is the best yet. However, it is not nearly as cheap as the others.....


----------



## mindwar

i'll stick to the lower end budget opamps for now. i'd probably have about 2-3 weeks to burn the stock tubes in and get to know the stock opamps' sound signature till any opamp would get here from china anyways .
  
 any ideea if the two links i pasted are what i'd need to get for the littledot?


----------



## gibosi

mindwar said:


> any ideea if the two links i pasted are what i'd need to get for the littledot?


 
  
 Yes, both of your links point to the correct op amps. Enjoy!


----------



## Arsis

My LD I+ shipped today  Looking forward to getting it. Still burning in my Momentums and I have a variety of others from 18 to 600 ohms. I think I'll get to know it in stock form for a few weeks and then try BB2107/EF91 combo. Anyone buying matched tubes? I used to get matched sets for my guitar amp from eurotubes.com not sure if he has any for the LD or not.


----------



## gibosi

arsis said:


> My LD I+ shipped today
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 It is not worth buying "matched" driver tubes for Little Dot amplifiers. In the 1+, driver tubes provide zero gain. Their purpose is only to add tube "flavor". Of course, both should be the same brand, same construction and same time period, but more than that is not necessary. In guitar amps, where these tubes actually provide gain, matching is much more important.


----------



## Arsis

Is anyone using their LD 1+ with Senn HD598 (or Momentum)? I sold my Grado 325is. I tried to love them. Not for me and terribly uncomfortable.


----------



## bala

Folks, are there any other Tube amp equivalents to the LD I+ that can push out the same amount of current to low impedance headphones? I am aware of the Torpedo Parafeed but not sure about its current output capabilities!


----------



## Arsis

My initial impression are good. More thoughts to come.

MacPro -> iTunes -> Fiio e10 line out -> LD I+


----------



## Taveren

taveren said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I have just recently received a Little Dot I+ from one of our bros here and it comes with a pair of Mullard M8100 and the stock 6J1 tubes. The opamp has been changed to LT1364.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Bump, open to suggestions please. Cheers!


----------



## Melvins

arsis said:


> My initial impression are good. More thoughts to come.
> 
> MacPro -> iTunes -> Fiio e10 line out -> LD I+


 
 hey that's very similar to my setup. the e10 and the LD1+ go together beautifully. the e10 gives the sound a fantastic and deeply noticeable forwardness and then the LD1+ does what tube amps due....add an awesome sound to the treble/midrange. That's my interpretation of that paring at least. How do you like it with your grados? Mine sounds fantastic with my magnum. I have no desire to really move up from this pairing until i graduate college and have like...a house and a reliable source of income. ha


----------



## SwanSong

New to the LD 1+ need help understanding what I'm reading. Based on the forums it sounds like these options will work best with my HE-500 phones.

Please review the below items to confirm they'll work with the LD1+ and what else will be required?

LT1364CN LT1364CN8 DIP8 Dual and Quad 70MHz, 1000V/us Op Amps 
lxr0000527 LT1364CN8 DIP8

New Burr-Brown OPA2107AP DIP-8
Precision Dual Difet(R) Operational Amplifier

2x Voshod 6ZH1P-EV 

2x Mullard M8161/CV401

I think these upgrades will give me neutral and warm options to roll in and out?

Mullard M8161 + OPA2107 combo for warmth?
Voshod + LT1364 combo for neutral clarity?

I rolled several tubes in my Dac before settling on the Rocket I loved the neutral and dynamic sound versus the thicker sound from other tubes. Will I notice the same via headphones?

I'm confused with the opamp usage more than the tubes since I've read some saying adapters needed for dual opamps configurations?? Please recommend better opamps if these are inferior to others, I would like to stay away from adapters and other alterations if possible.

Thanks guys


----------



## Arsis

Somebody tell me that it gets much,much better than stock. Right now its a pretty cool looking door stop. It's soooo mushy. :mad: The more complex the music the mushier it gets. My first impression with acoustic singer/songwriter type stuff was good. Even drums and simple guitars (Jason Mraz's Love album @24/96) sounds fine. Distorted guitars are a mess. It's got 100+ hours burn-in. All my cans suffer the same mush. Volume at 50% is a comfortable level. Burr-Brow 2107 on the way. Fingers crossed.


----------



## Edgard Varese

arsis said:


> Somebody tell me that it gets much,much better than stock. Right now its a pretty cool looking door stop. It's soooo mushy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 What tubes are you using?  Also stock?


----------



## SwanSong

gibosi said:


> You might also want to try the LME49990 and OPA627AP.
> 
> After spending time with the stock MC33078, an OPA2107, and then an LME 49990, my current op amp is the MUSES02, and for me, it is the best yet. However, it is not nearly as cheap as the others.....


 
 I checked out the Muses02 its expensive but how do you compare the sound to the others mentioned?  Sorry to bug you but you seem to have great recommendations!  Also can you give me a link to the Muses02 that you'd recommend I see several from $20-46 dollars on ebay.
  
 Thanks


----------



## Arsis

yes... also stock. Gonna try one thing at a time.
'm happy with eq signature but the mush has gotta go.


----------



## Edgard Varese

arsis said:


> yes... also stock. Gonna try one thing at a time.
> 'm happy with eq signature but the mush has gotta go.


 
  
 A pair of Voskhod tubes will do more to clear up the mush than the opamp change (at least that's what I heard when I did it).  Alternatively, a non-spec tube like the 6DT6A (RCA or GE) is also very nice in terms of added clarity.


----------



## gibosi

swansong said:


> I checked out the Muses02 its expensive but how do you compare the sound to the others mentioned?  Sorry to bug you but you seem to have great recommendations!  Also can you give me a link to the Muses02 that you'd recommend I see several from $20-46 dollars on ebay.


 
  
 I found the stock MC33078 to be congested and swapped it out almost immediately.
  
 The OPA2107 was much better, But the highs seemed to be somewhat rolled off, and the mids were almost shouty.
  
 The LME 49990 was a breath of fresh air. Very clean and transparent, with great highs. However, it is a very neutral amp, and with some tubes it seemed to be a bit cold and lifeless.
  
 The MUSES02 has all the qualities of the LME 49990, but with a bit more mid range presence. Vocals and instruments seem to have more impact and presence and the overall presentation is more musical and toe tapping than the LME49990.
  
 But of course, this is with my ears and my gear.. Others may have different opinions....
  
 I bought the MUSES02 here:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/400418607953?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649


----------



## SwanSong

gibosi said:


> I found the stock MC33078 to be congested and swapped it out almost immediately.
> 
> The OPA2107 was much better, But the highs seemed to be somewhat rolled off, and the mids were almost shouty.
> 
> ...



If I go with the LM49990 with mullard tubes will it warm the LM UP? Can you give me a link for the LM49990? The muses02 and LM won't need any kind of adapters (1 to 1) replacement ?


----------



## gibosi

swansong said:


> If I go with the LM49990 with mullard tubes will it warm the LM UP? Can you give me a link for the LM49990? The muses02 and LM won't need any kind of adapters (1 to 1) replacement ?


 
  
 The LME49990 is a single channel chip, so you need two mounted on a DIP8 adapter. I purchased mine already mounted from this vendor:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUAL-SOIC-LME49990-DIP8-ADAPTER-/190963705777?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item2c7652e7b1
  
 I have not listened to the Mullard M8161/CV4015 with the LME49990, but yes, I would expect that the Mullard, being a rather warm tube, would match up well with the LME49990.
  
 The MUSES02 is a two channel chip, so no adapter is needed.


----------



## SwanSong

Thanks gibosi


----------



## JoeDoe

Just bought an LD1+ off of jaywillin and I've been sifting through this thread for the last 20 minutes. He hooked me up with some Telefunkens, RCAs, and Sylvanias.
  
 I'm curious to know if 1. There is some sort of table or summary in this thread about which tubes are hits and which are misses and 2. How the Mullards or Voshkods measure up.


----------



## gibosi

joedoe said:


> Just bought an LD1+ off of jaywillin and I've been sifting through this thread for the last 20 minutes. He hooked me up with some Telefunkens, RCAs, and Sylvanias.
> 
> I'm curious to know if 1. There is some sort of table or summary in this thread about which tubes are hits and which are misses and 2. How the Mullards or Voshkods measure up.


 
  
 There is no table or summary in this thread, but there is quite a bit of information presented at the beginning of the Little Dot vacuum tube rolling thread:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide


----------



## SJWorne

Got my little dot ordered


----------



## JoeDoe

Hey there LD1+ owners, if you wouldn't mind could someone lend some insight for me. 
  
 I picked up mine a few weeks ago (although didn't get to really play with it until yesterday) and I'm noticing a distinct hum with just about any tube I plug in. Is this normal? I don't hear it right when it power it on, but I can hear the hum arise as the tubes warm. Any thoughts?


----------



## gibosi

joedoe said:


> Hey there LD1+ owners, if you wouldn't mind could someone lend some insight for me.
> 
> I picked up mine a few weeks ago (although didn't get to really play with it until yesterday) and I'm noticing a distinct hum with just about any tube I plug in. Is this normal? I don't hear it right when it power it on, but I can hear the hum arise as the tubes warm. Any thoughts?


 
 You say "just about any tube". So I am assuming that with some tubes, there is no hum? And the tubes that hum... Are they new?  If so, they just may need to burn-in for 12 hours, or so, to settle down.


----------



## JoeDoe

gibosi said:


> You say "just about any tube". So I am assuming that with some tubes, there is no hum? And the tubes that hum... Are they new?  If so, they just may need to burn-in for 12 hours, or so, to settle down.




Actually they all hum but to different degrees. This includes EF91s and 6AK5s. As far as I know none of them are new. Based on jays listening habits I'm sure the ones that I'm using have seen many more than burn in hours.


----------



## gibosi

The fact that all your tubes are humming would seem to eliminate them as the problem.
  
 Going through a process of elimination:
  
 Try a different pair of RCA cables connected to audio in.
 Try a different set of headphones
 Try a different opamp.
  
 Good luck!


----------



## JoeDoe

gibosi said:


> The fact that all your tubes are humming would seem to eliminate them as the problem.
> 
> Going through a process of elimination:
> 
> ...


 
 Haven't got a spare pair of RCAs, but I have tried different cans (the more sensitive, the worse the hum) and just now installed a new opamp. The hum is almost inaudible much worse now. Put a brand new TI OPA2107AP even though a 2107 was in there already...
  
 The quest continues!
  
 Also, has anyone had to replace any of the screws holding the chassis together? One seems to have wandered off...


----------



## gibosi

joedoe said:


> Haven't got a spare pair of RCAs, but I have tried different cans (the more sensitive, the worse the hum) and just now installed a new opamp. The hum is almost inaudible much worse now. Put a brand new TI OPA2107AP even though a 2107 was in there already...
> 
> The quest continues!
> 
> Also, has anyone had to replace any of the screws holding the chassis together? One seems to have wandered off...


 
  
 I had a ground-hum problem due to the front-right top screw coming loose. This particular screw is a critical component of the ground circuit. So yes, it might well be worth your while to investigate this further...
  
 Good luck!


----------



## JoeDoe

gibosi said:


> I had a ground-hum problem due to the front-right top screw coming loose. This particular screw is a critical component of the ground circuit. So yes, it might well be worth your while to investigate this further...
> 
> Good luck!


 
 Good news: Found the screw.
  
Bad news: Still humming like like a tone deaf kid in church choir.
  
 Not sure what has changed, but the hum is gone...


----------



## mrlimbo

Hi , the only time mine ever hummed , it was my wi-fi router , have you eleminated that possibility ?


----------



## shipsupt

Changing those screws is likely a good idea if for no other reason that they are super cheap and tend to be easy to damage with frequent use.... but no I haven't changed mine yet.
  
 As for the hum, you should try moving the amp away from anything that might be putting out some interference.  I found the LD I+ to be very susceptible to noise from other electronics close by.  Always good to rule out the simple stuff first.


----------



## JoeDoe

mrlimbo said:


> Hi , the only time mine ever hummed , it was my wi-fi router , have you eleminated that possibility ?


 
Haven't eliminated it per se, but the hum is gone now. The LD is sitting about 6 inches away from my laptop and the cDAC is leaving against it.


shipsupt said:


> Changing those screws is likely a good idea if for no other reason that they are super cheap and tend to be easy to damage with frequent use.... but no I haven't changed mine yet.




Good call. I must've opened that chassis up a dozen times yesterday and those screws let me know it!


----------



## i luvmusic 2

Mine should be here soon oh wait it was shipped via SNAIL MAIL.....


----------



## JoeDoe

No hiss = sonic bliss


----------



## SJWorne

i luvmusic 2 said:


> Mine should be here soon oh wait it was shipped via SNAIL MAIL.....


 
 Same here!


----------



## Arsis

Anybody know of a concise list of favorite op-amp / tube combinations for Little Dot I+?

or

What's your favorite?
1. op-amp
2. tubes
3. headphones
4. preferred music genre


----------



## i luvmusic 2

sjworne said:


> Same here!


 
 When i bought my LD MK III from another seller it took 3 business days to arrived from China  to Canada for me that was fast so i was hopping that it would be the same with Da#$@ but it turned out it will take him at least 3 days for quality BS  another 4 to 10 days to arrive. i did some logistics before so i think what he is doing is wait for bunch of order before he shipped in that way he gets quantity discount plus he make some more cash from shipping charges from us.


----------



## SJWorne

Just got my little dot today 
 I have some 6CQ6 tubes in there too... thoughts on them? 

 I'm coming from a Creative Core 3d sound card.

 First impressions are good... there seem's to be more oomph behind the bass, but with a bit more control as well?
 Mids are good as always, and highs are still fairly bright (slightly warmer), but nice and crisp.
 And i'm not sure if i'm making it up or not, but there seems to be more detail? I seem to be hearing more, but i'm not sure if it's just because i'm listening harder? haha! 

 I'm sure an improvement will come with time and burn-in!


----------



## i luvmusic 2

Hi i just received my LD 1+ and i have a problem with it all tubes that i tried they HUM i mean all tubes EF91 Ef92 and EF95 they all hum except the tube that come with it which is 6J1.that 6J1 is dead quiet even in high gain with those EF91 EF92 and EF95 in high gain they hum loud.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

joedoe said:


> Actually they all hum but to different degrees. This includes EF91s and 6AK5s. As far as I know none of them are new. Based on jays listening habits I'm sure the ones that I'm using have seen many more than burn in hours.


 
 CRAP i have the same problem.


----------



## JoeDoe

i luvmusic 2 said:


> CRAP i have the same problem.




Check the screws and make sure you're not putting the LD near anything that would emit RF noise


----------



## gibosi

i luvmusic 2 said:


> Hi i just received my LD 1+ and i have a problem with it all tubes that i tried they HUM i mean all tubes EF91 Ef92 and EF95 they all hum except the tube that come with it which is 6J1.that 6J1 is dead quiet even in high gain with those EF91 EF92 and EF95 in high gain they hum loud.


 
  
 The fact that your 6J1 is quiet suggests to me that the noisy tubes simply need to be burned in. Brand new tubes often buzz and hum. I suggest that you run your new tubes for 12 hours or so and see if they don't settle down.


----------



## kvtaco17

arsis said:


> Anybody know of a concise list of favorite op-amp / tube combinations for Little Dot I+?
> 
> or
> 
> ...


 
 1. OPA627AP x2
 2. stock compatible tubes... Sylvania 6HA5/6HM5, RCA 6DT6A & Sylvania 6DT6A (1-7 strap)
     Modded for 9 pin tubes Voskhod 6N23P
 3. PS500/HD800/AD2000x
 4. Rock (death metal to classic lol) Electronica and Jazz


----------



## SJWorne

Can anyone tell me if your little dot get pretty warm to the touch?
 I've never had anything like this before and I wasn't sure about it! 

 Mine is quite warm to the touch, but not hot... tubes are relatively warm... cooler than I expected


----------



## gibosi

sjworne said:


> Can anyone tell me if your little dot get pretty warm to the touch?
> I've never had anything like this before and I wasn't sure about it!
> 
> Mine is quite warm to the touch, but not hot... tubes are relatively warm... cooler than I expected


 
  
 Tubes generate heat, so you can expect that your amp will be warm to somewhat hot. I found the amp to run hottest with EF91 and 408A tubes. But yes, this is completely normal.


----------



## SJWorne

gibosi said:


> Tubes generate heat, so you can expect that your amp will be warm to somewhat hot. I found the amp to run hottest with EF91 and 408A tubes. But yes, this is completely normal.


 
 Thanks for that!


----------



## i luvmusic 2

joedoe said:


> Check the screws and make sure you're not putting the LD near anything that would emit RF noise


 
 Yup i did check all of them and they are OK as of amp location it does not matter where i put  my amp and even  tried to move and shutdown some of my electronics/appliances my house is dead quiet but i still have the HUM.THANKS!


----------



## i luvmusic 2

gibosi said:


> The fact that your 6J1 is quiet suggests to me that the noisy tubes simply need to be burned in. Brand new tubes often buzz and hum. I suggest that you run your new tubes for 12 hours or so and see if they don't settle down.


 
 Hi,yes i'am running/burning-in my tubes now so hopefully they will settle down.THANKS!


----------



## SJWorne

Hoping my tubes require some burn-in as I have a bit of distortion that I can hear when it's quiet and nothing is playing!
 Failing that, I will have to try moving it or shielding it from my pc and see if that helps.
 Oh actually, I do only have a £6 cable connecting it to my pc... will try something a tad better quality with some shielding and see if that helps!


----------



## i luvmusic 2

I just tried all my EF91,EF92 and EF95(16 Pairs of Tubes) Tubes and they all HUM on my LD 1+ all of these Tubes were used on my LD MK III and they are all Quiet the only one that does not HUM is the stock tube that came with LD 1+ so now i'am sure that all NOS tubes that i have is the source of the HUM.I even tried cutting off the ground pin on the plug and the HUM still there.I will try to continue burning-in one pair of the tube and see what will happen.WISH ME LUCK.....


----------



## i luvmusic 2

NO luck after 72 Hrs of burn-in for Motorola 6BE6 still humming(No changes).The bad thing is some 0f the tubes that i like  i bougth 2 Pairs of each  thinking to use 1 pair for LD 1+ another Pair for LD MK III so i guess those double pairs are all for MK III.At least the 6HM5 is quiet need to buy one more pair of those it's another tube that i like.


----------



## SJWorne

Can anyone verify if the OPA627 would work in the little dot?

http://www.ti.com/product/opa627
  
 It has been called 'reference grade' by some people...


----------



## kvtaco17

top of this page I reference that opamp... yes it works... its mono so you need 2 of them and an adapter...


----------



## SJWorne

kvtaco17 said:


> top of this page I reference that opamp... yes it works... its mono so you need 2 of them and an adapter...


 
 Ahh stupid me! 

 What do you think of it?


----------



## kvtaco17

sjworne said:


> Ahh stupid me!
> 
> What do you think of it?


 

 Its good... removes 99% of the grain in the treble... slightly warm... very refined. A pretty good improvement over the stock opamp. I would do it again for sure BUT I'd probably roll some tubes first. The 6HM5 and 6DT6 were the best of the stock compatible tubes IMO... I would start with that since those tubes would be a much more noticeable improvement.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

is ti really a big change in sound by OPamp rolling or it's better result with tube rolling?


----------



## kvtaco17

Tubes will make a bigger difference


----------



## muaysteve

I respectfully disagree, or would at least say that op amps can have just as a dramatic effect as tubes.
  
 I only have one set of tubes besides the stock ones, and using them sounds "different" than the stock tubes.... but I ordered 3 different op amps from TI (for free) and those were all night and day from each other.  And they were each better than the stock op amp in my humble opinion. (Can remember the model numbers off hand.  I settled on the one I liked best and never looked back)


----------



## muaysteve

And now I remember why I swung by the thread in the first place:
  
 Has anyone been able to compare the NE-408a to the WE-408a tubes?  Are they actually the same?


----------



## kvtaco17

muaysteve said:


> I respectfully disagree, or would at least say that op amps can have just as a dramatic effect as tubes.
> 
> I only have one set of tubes besides the stock ones, and using them sounds "different" than the stock tubes.... but I ordered 3 different op amps from TI (for free) and those were all night and day from each other.  And they were each better than the stock op amp in my humble opinion. (Can remember the model numbers off hand.  I settled on the one I liked best and never looked back)


 
  
 And I value your opinion. Its been a very long time since I've heard the stock LD1+... BUT I do remember having some heptodes in it and starting to roll opamps and it seeming like a veil was somewhat lifted... the stock opamp is pretty average. It didn't seem as revolutionary to me as moving up away from the LD approved tube families but it was noticeable. My current 627AP's have carried me very far in my tube rolling adventure... all the way into 6DJ8 territory and soon into the world of octals... I will eventually roll some of the MUSES opamps to change things up because it may be even better lol. Anyways to clarify I do recommend getting away from the stock opamp BUT I'd first find a tube you like and are comfortable with so you have a basis from comparison.
  

 above is my current setup... simply amazing what this little amp is capable of when you mod it... hell it even sounds pretty sweet stock!


----------



## gibosi

muaysteve said:


> And now I remember why I swung by the thread in the first place:
> 
> Has anyone been able to compare the NE-408a to the WE-408a tubes?  Are they actually the same?


 
  
 I haven't listened to these tubes in a very long time, but to the best of my recollection, I never noticed any significant difference in their sound.
  
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  
 And about rolling op amps, I would say that almost any of the recommended op amps you read about in this thread will be significantly better than the stock op amp. So I would suggest that you do your research, select one, and I think you will be very pleasantly surprised. And then start rolling tubes. After you have rolled a bunch of tubes (a few hundred in my case lol), you will have a pretty good idea which tubes are your favorites. At that time, I suggest trying a few more op amps to see which ones have the best synergy with your favorite tubes. Of course, every one has different ears and different gear, and for me, the MUSES 02 op amp matches up the best.
  
 Oh.. I see that kvtaco17 responded while I was writing this... But it seems that we essentially agree . 
  
 I sure envy how nice his amp looks... My LD1+ running a dual triode octal....


----------



## kvtaco17

gibosi said:


> I haven't listened to these tubes in a very long time, but to the best of my recollection, I never noticed any significant difference in their sound.
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
> ...


 
 It looks ok... I'm still working on getting some time with a laser cutter to make holes for my DC regulator cards so it can be see and adjusted from the outside of my enclosure. You sir deserve 99% of the credit for inspiring my build. Thank you for continuing to be a part of pushing this tiny amp to its limits.


----------



## mrlimbo

i luvmusic 2 said:


> is ti really a big change in sound by OPamp rolling or it's better result with tube rolling?


 
 For me ive never noticed much of a change with tubes , but have with opamps !


----------



## SJWorne

gibosi said:


> I haven't listened to these tubes in a very long time, but to the best of my recollection, I never noticed any significant difference in their sound.
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
> ...


 
 Mind = Blown
 I have to say, I know very little about amps and triodes and stuff... this looks like so much fun to try and mod... how much does doing something like that cost you?


----------



## kvtaco17

sjworne said:


> Mind = Blown
> I have to say, I know very little about amps and triodes and stuff... this looks like so much fun to try and mod... how much does doing something like that cost you?


 
 Couple bucks lol
  
 the vector adapters are like $7 a piece... the bread board is like $15... DC regulator is like $13 and the power adapter to go with it is like $5 if you don't have one laying around... plus wire, and time and tubes lol


----------



## gibosi

sjworne said:


> Mind = Blown
> I have to say, I know very little about amps and triodes and stuff... this looks like so much fun to try and mod... how much does doing something like that cost you?


 
  
 Not much....
  
 Breadboard 9-pin socket = $18.00
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/9-pin-breadboard-prototype-tube-socket-for-DIY-experimenting-/151176364267?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2332d040eb
  
 Two 7-pin test sockets = $10.00
  
 http://www.radiodaze.com/product/15450.aspx
  
 But of course, you need to know what you are doing. If you are interested, a number of us began to explore using dual triodes in our Little Dot amps on page 200, post 2992:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/2985#post_9817399
  
 Mine is downright crude and simple, but others, such as kvtaco17 and MIKELAP, have built very nice dual triode adapters.
  
 Edit: Per kvtaco17's posting, a 24V wall adapter with a DC regulator is necessary if you wish to roll tubes drawing more than 500ma of heater current, such as 6SN7. But even if you are using low current tubes, such as 6DJ8, using DC to run the heaters, instead of AC, reduces noise.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

kvtaco17 said:


> Tubes will make a bigger difference


 
 Thank You!
 so no need for me to change my OP amp.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

mrlimbo said:


> For me ive never noticed much of a change with tubes , but have with opamps !


 
 Thank You!
 I know that everytime i changed Tubes i noticed a big deffirence in sound.


----------



## SJWorne

I shall certainly have a look into it at some point 
Just enjoying my new amp as it is right now, but at some point I'll have a crack! 
Thanks guys!


----------



## Arsis

muaysteve said:


> I respectfully disagree, or would at least say that op amps can have just as a dramatic effect as tubes.
> 
> I only have one set of tubes besides the stock ones, and using them sounds "different" than the stock tubes.... but I ordered 3 different op amps from TI (for free) and those were all night and day from each other.  And they were each better than the stock op amp in my humble opinion. (Can remember the model numbers off hand.  I settled on the one I liked best and never looked back)




I switched to an OPA2107 and noticed very little change. I'm still using the stock 6JI tubes and the bass is very mushy. I'm thinking I'll try the Mullard 8161 and swap back to the stock op-amp just to see if I notice a bigger difference.


----------



## muaysteve

arsis said:


> I switched to an OPA2107 and noticed very little change. I'm still using the stock 6JI tubes and the bass is very mushy. I'm thinking I'll try the Mullard 8161 and swap back to the stock op-amp just to see if I notice a bigger difference.


 
  
 I'm really surprised to hear that.  2 of the OP amps that I have are the OPA2107 and the LM4562, with the 2107 being the one I prefer.  I thought it brough out a lot of the detail in the songs and opened things up.  I think I'll try throwing the LM4562 back in for a week or so.  I remember it being darker and accentuating the base.  I just switched from Grado sr80i's to ATH-m50's  so maybe I'll hear something different this time.
  
  
 And holy cap at those rigs you guys posted... I had no idea stuff like that was even possible.  What does it do for the overall sound?


----------



## i luvmusic 2

muaysteve said:


> I'm really surprised to hear that.  2 of the OP amps that I have are the OPA2107 and the LM4562, with the 2107 being the one I prefer.  I thought it brough out a lot of the detail in the songs and opened things up.  I think I'll try throwing the LM4562 back in for a week or so.  I remember it being darker and accentuating the base.  I just switched from Grado sr80i's to ATH-m50's  so maybe I'll hear something different this time.
> 
> 
> And holy cap at those rigs you guys posted... I had no idea stuff like that was even possible.  What does it do for the overall sound?


 
 You should check these out "Little Dot Tube Amps: Vacuum Tube Rolling Guide"....


----------



## signet02

Hello, all... I'm a novice to headphone amps, and I am looking for a little clarity on an issue with the Little Dot 1+ I just ordered... Delivery is still a few weeks out at most, but I've been looking at different tube sets for this amp... My issue follows:
  
 A few days ago, after ordering the Little Dot 1+ from Amazon.com through a Chinese vendor, I put this question to the vendor, who is listed as SHENZHENAUDIO… My question:
  
 Hello: One more question, if I may: If I decide to use the WE 408 A tubes in the Little Dot 1+, do I have to change the jumpers or pin-out or anything else like that?... Also, do you have a favorite op-amp change for these tubes?... I listen to mainly classical music, and I like a lot of airyness and definition... Not really a bass freak... ???... Thank you, and best regards, Mark.
  
 Answer from seller:
  
 Dear Mark: You mean use WE 408A in the Little Dot 6J1 version? If so, please don't do that. I used to change the tubes. But it smells bad for the amp. Please kindly check that. If you have anything, please contact me freely. Thanks and best regards, Tina.
  
 Now, since I’m a novice at all this, this has me worried… Are there different versions of the Little Dot 1+ other than just what tubes it comes with?... I thought one of the main features of this unit was that you can roll different tubes into it, with the caveat that you may have to change internal jumpers, which are supposed to come with the unit… So, I guess I’m asking for a little clarity here… Thanks in advance, and best regards, Mark.


----------



## gibosi

signet02 said:


> A few days ago, after ordering the Little Dot 1+ from Amazon.com through a Chinese vendor, I put this question to the vendor, who is listed as SHENZHENAUDIO… My question:
> 
> Hello: One more question, if I may: If I decide to use the WE 408 A tubes in the Little Dot 1+, do I have to change the jumpers or pin-out or anything else like that?... Also, do you have a favorite op-amp change for these tubes?... I listen to mainly classical music, and I like a lot of airyness and definition... Not really a bass freak... ???... Thank you, and best regards, Mark.
> 
> ...


 
  
 It would seem that Tina is very misinformed...  The LD1+ is specifically designed to accommodate 408A tubes. And yes, all you have to do is change a jumper. EF91, EF92 and EF95 tubes require a cathode heater voltage of 6.3 volts, whereas, 408A tubes require a voltage of 20 volts, and the jumper allows you to easily make this change.
  
 Op amps... I would say LME49990 and MUSES 01 are somewhat dry and airy and OPA627AP and MUSES 02 are somewhat wet and dark.


----------



## signet02

Thanks, gibosi... I thought something was fishy with her reply... I've been reading this thread avidly... I do have other tube gear [Decware Triode]; however, this is my first foray into tube-based headphone amps... I didn't want to spend too much until I decided I liked using headphones... And it seems as if this is the 'go-to' unit in this price-range...


----------



## MunkyOne

signet02 said:


> Thanks, gibosi... I thought something was fishy with her reply... I've been reading this thread avidly... I do have other tube gear [Decware Triode]; however, this is my first foray into tube-based headphone amps... I didn't want to spend too much until I decided I liked using headphones... And it seems as if this is the 'go-to' unit in this price-range...


 

 Gibosi's answer is spot-on, so you can change your tubes with confidence   
  
 What headphones are you using with the LD?  It may influence your choices of tubes and op-amps.  There is an excellent starter guide http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide that describes some of the various tube sound characteristics.
  
 Be warned; tube rolling can become addictive


----------



## signet02

Hello, Munky: Right now, all I have on hand is a pair of Sennheiser HD 380 Pro headphones that I use for my Yamaha digital piano... They are very good, but designed for low impedance, low level sources, such as recording consoles and such...
  
 I also have a pair of HD 280 Pros I use for the same purpose... I do plan, however, to get myself a good pair of Hi-Fi headphones soon... What to get?... I'm going to do my homework here...
  
 I do have a fair amount of knowledge regarding tube rolling into audio gear such as integrated amps, but headphone amps, not very much knowledge... It seems like this is the place to get that...
  
 I sold audio way back in the 70's in NYC, and met Joe Grado... He's a great guy, and has always offered a lot of bang for the buck... Maybe I'll get a pair of Grados... Any suggestions for listening to classical music?... Let's say, in the $300.00 range?...


----------



## MunkyOne

signet02 said:


> Hello, Munky: Right now, all I have on hand is a pair of Sennheiser HD 380 Pro headphones that I use for my Yamaha digital piano... They are very good, but designed for low impedance, low level sources, such as recording consoles and such...
> 
> I also have a pair of HD 280 Pros I use for the same purpose... I do plan, however, to get myself a good pair of Hi-Fi headphones soon... What to get?... I'm going to do my homework here...
> 
> ...


 
 Yes, this is definitely the place to be, for headphone-related things; I gained a fair chunk of my knowledge from Head-Fi members, and have thoroughly enjoyed the journey thus far.
  
 As a relatively new convert to headphone listening, my experience of headphones is limited to Grado, and only a few of those.  For classical litening I like my SR325i, which is in your price range.  For everything else, I like my modded SR80i.  Both of these sound excellent when paired with the LD1+
  
 My usual sources are FiiO X3, or laptop using X3 as DAC, or my E07K as DAC.
  
 I purchased the LD1+ with 6CQ6 tubes, which are a pretty good jack of all trades, very smooth - somewhat taming the Grado edginess in the treble.  They are warm, but not too much, and very engaging and musical to listen to.   From this point, I changed the op-amp, as the stock one is known to be mediocre wrt SQ.  I chose a Burr-Brown OPA2107AP, which was a quick and easy mod.  This opened the sound up more and seems to offer slightly more gain, with more attack and energy.  Bass also feels a bit tighter.  I was quite surprised how much I noticed it.
  
 Recently, after some more listening, I decided to roll the tubes, and found a matched pair of Mullard M8161 NOS on ebay.  I have only about 10 hours on these tubes, so they are still settling-in, but I have to say, these immediately sounded more spacious, with a touch more bass and more detail in all frequencies.  So far, with my Grado's and my two sources, I am happy with how it all sounds.
  
 I have no way to know how it would be with other makes of headphone.  I suspect that with each headphone choice, the process of tube and op-amp rolling might start again 
  
 As I said, my experience is limited, but there are many here who will have more experience of this little amp and of different headphones.
  
 I wish you a great adventure


----------



## signet02

I would guess that because you have the transducers right up to your ear, any hum at all would be a problem...
  
 So, I guess that would be my first criteria, and after that tuning the sound to my taste...
  
 By contrast, a little hum through my speakers is not really a problem, as even a foot or two away, the hum can not be heard... Some of my favorite tubes for my main amp have some hum...
  
 Like the Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ 8 with 'D' getter... My favorite input / driver tube... At any rate, I'm going to keep on reading the posts on this thread, as they are very helpful... It seems like all the trials and tribulations have already been experienced here...
  
 And now comes the long wait for the amp... Time goes by fast when you're listening and enjoying, but very, very slow while you're waiting for gear to arrive!...
  
 Also, thanks for the recommendations...


----------



## MunkyOne

signet02 said:


> I would guess that because you have the transducers right up to your ear, any hum at all would be a problem...
> 
> So, I guess that would be my first criteria, and after that tuning the sound to my taste...
> 
> ...


 

 Yes, hum through headphones could be quite distracting, even annoying.  However, I have yet to hear any noticeable hum from my Ld1+.  It sits on my desk alongside a laptop and monitor, with a power cable crossing the souce interconnect.  If there is any hum at all, it is probably masked by ambient noise, which is minimal in my study.  
  
 Hope your amp arrives very soon


----------



## i luvmusic 2

Anyone thought about drilling a hole under the LD 1 so no need to undo the bottom part each time you want to change jumpers(similar to the bottom of LD MK III)?
 If i drill a hole or make a cut-out under does it affect some kind of RF shielding?


----------



## SJWorne

i luvmusic 2 said:


> Anyone thought about drilling a hole under the LD 1 so no need to undo the bottom part each time you want to change jumpers(similar to the bottom of LD MK III)?
> If i drill a hole or make a cut-out under does it affect some kind of RF shielding?


 
 Funnily enough, I was just thinkning about taking the LD apart again... the screws are quite delicate and i'm scared of stripping the heads.
 Was thinking of replacing the screws with allen bolts or even torx bolts.
 It would give it a cool look in my opinion... as well as relieving the worry of damaging anything!


----------



## MunkyOne

sjworne said:


> Funnily enough, I was just thinkning about taking the LD apart again... the screws are quite delicate and i'm scared of stripping the heads.
> Was thinking of replacing the screws with allen bolts or even torx bolts.
> It would give it a cool look in my opinion... as well as relieving the worry of damaging anything!


 

 I was thinking about making a small hinged door underneath from a cut-out in the base, with a single retaining screw.  Since there is so much tube rolling ahead, I figure this would be a suitable mod.


----------



## gibosi

sjworne said:


> Funnily enough, I was just thinkning about taking the LD apart again... the screws are quite delicate and i'm scared of stripping the heads.
> Was thinking of replacing the screws with allen bolts or even torx bolts.
> It would give it a cool look in my opinion... as well as relieving the worry of damaging anything!


 
  
 I like the idea of using better hardware, such as allen head or torx screws. However, when I replace the screws, I just make them snug, not tight. So I never have to worry about stripping the heads of the screws when I remove them. After all, since the amp will work perfectly fine without the bottom, I figure there is no good reason to make the screws really tight.


----------



## SJWorne

gibosi said:


> I like the idea of using better hardware, such as allen head or torx screws. However, when I replace the screws, I just make them snug, not tight. So I never have to worry about stripping the heads of the screws when I remove them. After all, since the amp will work perfectly fine without the bottom, I figure there is no good reason to make the screws really tight.


 
 I see your point!
 However I guess i'm a little ocd when it comes to the screws... they're supposed to be flush with the rest of the chassis, and for me, they MUST be flush  lol
  


munkyone said:


> I was thinking about making a small hinged door underneath from a cut-out in the base, with a single retaining screw.  Since there is so much tube rolling ahead, I figure this would be a suitable mod.


 
 Good idea!


----------



## i luvmusic 2

munkyone said:


> I was thinking about making a small hinged door underneath from a cut-out in the base, with a single retaining screw.  Since there is so much tube rolling ahead, I figure this would be a suitable mod.


 
  
 The thing with cutting a door underneath is the  J1 is actualy just past the front left foot of the unit so you need to cut flush to the edge of the front foot not a bad idea though.


sjworne said:


> Funnily enough, I was just thinkning about taking the LD apart again... the screws are quite delicate and i'm scared of stripping the heads.
> Was thinking of replacing the screws with allen bolts or even torx bolts.
> It would give it a cool look in my opinion... as well as relieving the worry of damaging anything!


 
 To me it's not the head of the screws being stripped it's the thread but if you can find a screws that have a rough thread it's better and if you look at the bottom piece you dont have much room for a bigger screws.To do it properly you need to drill a slightly smaller hole than the screws you are using then you need to TAP it and you need to counter sink the face plate or you can use a self tapping screws or you can use a wood screw/sheet metal screw without drilling and tapping that should work but finding a small screws that will fit in that spot is not that easy.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

gibosi said:


> I like the idea of using better hardware, such as allen head or torx screws. However, when I replace the screws, I just make them snug, not tight. So I never have to worry about stripping the heads of the screws when I remove them. After all, since the amp will work perfectly fine without the bottom, I figure there is no good reason to make the screws really tight.


 
 You are right when i put back the bottom plate i usually turned the screws just barely tight but it anoyed me by taking off 4 screws everytime i want to open it up.


----------



## MunkyOne

i luvmusic 2 said:


> The thing with cutting a door underneath is the  J1 is actualy just past the front left foot of the unit so you need to cut flush to the edge of the front foot not a bad idea though.
> To me it's not the head of the screws being stripped it's the thread but if you can find a screws that have a rough thread it's better and if you look at the bottom piece you dont have much room for a bigger screws.To do it properly you need to drill a slightly smaller hole than the screws you are using then you need to TAP it and you need to counter sink the face plate or you can use a self tapping screws or you can use a wood screw/sheet metal screw without drilling and tapping that should work but finding a small screws that will fit in that spot is not that easy.


 

 I have just opened mine up again, and as you say, J1 is close to the foot.  However, on mine it is not quite as close as you describe (I measured it with the base inserted upside-down) , so perhaps there are some slight variations between batches?  I have about 2-3mm to spare between J1 and the foot.  If the hinged panel opened from the front - backwards, with a single retaining screw at the front-centre, it may just work.  When I have tome time, I will try it


----------



## signet02

Hello, all... Got my LD 1+ today... It came with the standard 6J1 tubes... I opened up the unit carefully to make sure it was jumpered / switched for that tube, and it was, predictably... I do have a pair of WE 408 A tubes on the way... They should even be here later, or tomorrow at the latest...
  
 I will say a few things so far: I have the unit burning in with a CD playing on 'repeat all'... No problem with heat... That's nominal... There is a bit of hum I'm hoping will go away as the tubes burn in... I'll probably roll the WE 408A's in later today... Also, not particularly good sounding yet... But I have enough experience with tube gear to not expect too much out of the box...
  
 The instruction manual is a little vague as far as the pictorial is concerned... I'm finding myself looking at the circuit board with a magnifying glass to determine just what's going on in there...
  
 I think I'm getting the hang of it, though...  It sure would help having a large photo of the circuit board with all the details nice and crisp to look at... Can anyone point me to that on this forum?...
  
 I do want to congratulate Amazon.com for the best price and no shipping... It took all of three days to get here!...
  
 That was $116.00, no shipping, and three day delivery via DHL... They even called me on the phone to say that it would be delivered today... Note: No affiliation with Amazon.com, DHL, or Little Dot...


----------



## gibosi

signet02 said:


> I think I'm getting the hang of it, though...  It sure would help having a large photo of the circuit board with all the details nice and crisp to look at... Can anyone point me to that on this forum?...


 
  
 This is the only picture I am aware of (from the LD site):
  
http://littledot.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=819&sid=2ab5e576ada03c21cd7e7b585f12666b


----------



## signet02

Thanks... If my mind doesn't deceive me, I think there's a slightly different layout on mine... It seems to me that I saw a moveable center-tapped jumper that takes the place of the two switches to go to WE 408 A or back... Have to check it again... Oh, no more hum after a few hours break-in... Dead quiet... Thanks again...


----------



## Kukuk

The FS board isn't really bringing me all that much luck: Anyone here have any tubes they might want to sell me? One of my tubes started making a really loud cracking sound, so I figure it's about time they got replaced!


----------



## kvtaco17

kukuk said:


> The FS board isn't really bringing me all that much luck: Anyone here have any tubes they might want to sell me? One of my tubes started making a really loud cracking sound, so I figure it's about time they got replaced!


 
 I have a few, I'll let you know tomorrow what stock fitting tubes I have plus cost.


----------



## kvtaco17

kukuk said:


> The FS board isn't really bringing me all that much luck: Anyone here have any tubes they might want to sell me? One of my tubes started making a really loud cracking sound, so I figure it's about time they got replaced!


 
 BAM!

  
 From left to right
  
 3 Sylvania 6DT6A (2 have a soldered 1-7 strap)
 2 Ediswan EH90
 2 Voskhod 6ZH1P
 2 Svetlana 6A2P
 2 GE 6DT6
 2 RCA 6DT6A (soldered 1-7 strap)
 2 GE 6AV6 modded and taped
 2 Siemens 6AK5w
 2 Sylvania 6HM5
 3 Valvo EH90 (1 has a slight hum)
  
  

  
 5 RCA 5915's I got from Jay awhile back and never used.
  

  
 All that! The ultimate starter kit lol
  
 This includes the 6HM5, 6AV6 and 6DT6 that were probably the best sounding stock compatible tubes... I'm on to 6DJ8's and soon to be rolling octals so I'm done with these little guys... PM me for price.


----------



## signet02

gibosi said:


> This is the only picture I am aware of (from the LD site):
> 
> http://littledot.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=819&sid=2ab5e576ada03c21cd7e7b585f12666b


 
  
 Warning: In the above photo of inside of unit, J5 and J6 are actually J1 and J2 [according to manual] !... The photo shows set-up for using the WE 408A... Also, the pictorial in the manual is a bit off... When switching from 6J1 to We 408A, all you need to do is change the switches to the 408A side... And of course, install your favorite op-amp... The pin-out on the op-amp should allow only one way to correctly install the op-amp, as you have two thinner pins on only one side...
  
 If anyone has a refutation of this, please advise!...


----------



## gibosi

Some LD 1+ have switches (the older ones) and some have computer jumpers (the newer ones). Otherwise, everything is essentially the same.
  
 However, I have no idea what you mean regarding opamps having "two thinner pins on only one side." All that is necessary is to match the circular indentation (or notch on some opamps) to the notch on the socket to ensure proper alignment. Below is a MUSES01 opamp with a circular indentation. In the picture on the LD website, you can see a notch on the stock opamp.


----------



## signet02

OK, thanks... Good to know... I thought I'd seen something other than two switches during my brief look-see inside the unit... But at the onset, all was not clear... The J5 and J6 jumper designation in the pic threw me off though... There were only 4 jumpers visible... And only 4 referred to in the manual...


----------



## Kukuk

kvtaco17 said:


> BAM!
> 
> 
> From left to right
> ...


 
  
 Heh, thanks, but I was able to get a seller lined up!


----------



## MunkyOne

signet02 said:


> Warning: In the above photo of inside of unit, J5 and J6 are actually J1 and J2 [according to manual] !... The photo shows set-up for using the WE 408A... Also, the pictorial in the manual is a bit off... When switching from 6J1 to We 408A, all you need to do is change the switches to the 408A side... And of course, install your favorite op-amp... The pin-out on the op-amp should allow only one way to correctly install the op-amp, as you have two thinner pins on only one side...
> 
> If anyone has a refutation of this, please advise!...


 
 Yes, it seems that LD site is not maintained fully updated.   If it is of any help to those of you who may have a version 3, here is a picture of my LD1+ V3.0 board.  The jumpers etc. are fairly clear.


----------



## signet02

Munky: Thanks for that... It makes the whole thing a lot clearer to me now... In place of the switches, it looks like a center-tapped arrangement where you just lift the jumpers, and shift them to the opposite side, the center pin being the feeder, right?... And of course, J1 and J2 are properly marked, and are left open for the WE 408A...


----------



## kvtaco17

kukuk said:


> Heh, thanks, but I was able to get a seller lined up!


 
 cool cool.


----------



## MunkyOne

signet02 said:


> Munky: Thanks for that... It makes the whole thing a lot clearer to me now... In place of the switches, it looks like a center-tapped arrangement where you just lift the jumpers, and shift them to the opposite side, the center pin being the feeder, right?... And of course, J1 and J2 are properly marked, and are left open for the WE 408A...


 
  
 You are most welcome signet02.
  
 Yes, you are correct.  J1 and J2 open for EF95 tube family (20v heaters).   K1 and K2 jumpers connectting the L/H two pins, marked '408A' on the board.  J3 & 4 open (3x gain) or closed (7x gain) depending on whether you need high or low gain (high or low impedance headphones).


----------



## signet02

munkyone said:


> You are most welcome signet02.
> 
> Yes, you are correct.  J1 and J2 open for EF95 tube family (20v heaters).   K1 and K2 jumpers connectting the L/H two pins, marked '408A' on the board.  J3 & 4 open (3x gain) or closed (7x gain) depending on whether you need high or low gain (high or low impedance headphones).


 
  
 Thanks... Just to clarify: My LD1+ manual says J3/J4 [closed] is for 3.5 gain, and J3/J4 [open] is for 7.0 gain...  ?...


----------



## signet02

Two questions:
  
 1) Is this legit?:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/161085567268?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649
  
 2) Is this Muse 01 op amp compatible with the LD 1+?...
  
 There seems to be different numbers on some of them... ???...


----------



## kvtaco17

signet02 said:


> Two questions:
> 
> 1) Is this legit?:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/161085567268?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649
> 
> ...


 

 1) I dunno, but most likely it is...
  
 2) it is very compatible and sounds very good.


----------



## signet02

Thanks... I'm always wary of knock-offs... Esp. from Chinese sources...  They go upwards of $90 from other sources...


----------



## kvtaco17

signet02 said:


> Thanks... I'm always wary of knock-offs... Esp. from Chinese sources...  They go upwards of $90 from other sources...


 
 Me too, BUT based on his feedback it should be safe


----------



## gibosi

signet02 said:


> Two questions:
> 
> 1) Is this legit?:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/161085567268?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have no experience with that vendor. However, I and a number of others have purchased both the MUSES01 and MUSES02 from this vendor:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/400418604577?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
  
 And yes, the 01 is compatible with the LD1+ per a private email from David. Further, I have used both the 01 and 02 in my LD1+. Both are excellent and it really comes down to preference: The 02 is wetter and more tube-like. The 01 is drier and more neutral.


----------



## kvtaco17

^ the man, the legend has spoken!


----------



## signet02

gibosi said:


> I have no experience with that vendor. However, I and a number of others have purchased both the MUSES01 and MUSES02 from this vendor:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/400418604577?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
> 
> And yes, the 01 is compatible with the LD1+ per a private email from David. Further, I have used both the 01 and 02 in my LD1+. Both are excellent and it really comes down to preference: The 02 is wetter and more tube-like. The 01 is drier and more neutral.


 
  
 I have that vendor/item up on my watched list...  Thanks...


----------



## MunkyOne

signet02 said:


> Thanks... Just to clarify: My LD1+ manual says J3/J4 [closed] is for 3.5 gain, and J3/J4 [open] is for 7.0 gain...  ?...


 
 Just checked mine, it says the closed position is low gain.  Is yours a V3.0 board?  I suppose it is possible that the manuals are not entirely in order, being half Chinese and half English.   Just physically checked it, closed, then open, through my 32-ohm Grados it does seem louder in the open position.


----------



## signet02

munkyone said:


> Just checked mine, it says the closed position is low gain.  Is yours a V3.0 board?  I suppose it is possible that the manuals are not entirely in order, being half Chinese and half English.   Just physically checked it, closed, then open, through my 32-ohm Grados it does seem louder in the open position.


 
  
 Right... J3/J4 [closed] is 3.5 gain, which is low gain for low impedance headphones like mine [32 ohms]... The less impedance, the less gain you need to reach full volume, right?...
  
 J3/J4 [open] is high gain [7.0] for higher impedance headphones which need more gain to reach useable volume, right?...
  
 I hope I got that right... 
  
 I'm thinking of pulling the trigger on a muses 02...


----------



## MunkyOne

signet02 said:


> Right... J3/J4 [closed] is 3.5 gain, which is low gain for low impedance headphones like mine [32 ohms]... The less impedance, the less gain you need to reach full volume, right?...
> 
> J3/J4 [open] is high gain [7.0] for higher impedance headphones which need more gain to reach useable volume, right?...
> 
> ...


 

 Correct.  Low impedance headphones present an easy load, so the amplifier doesn't need so much power to drive them properly.
  
 Thinking about trying the muses op-amps myself.  Looking through the threads here, to decide if I need the 01 or 02.


----------



## signet02

I guess I'd better fess up an show where I have my LD 1+ right now...
  
 It's doing service as a headphone amp for my Yamaha CP 300 digital piano... And admirably, I might add...
  
 [see:]
  
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/signet02/001_zpsbd38e79d.jpg
  
  
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa208/signet02/002_zps94610ca0.jpg
  
  
 The CP 300 unbalanced line outs (L+R) are pretty hot... So, the low gain setting works well... It puts both the keyboard volume, and the headphone amp volume at about 12 O'clock... Pretty much the sweet spot for pots of that type...
  
 The CP 300 is a studio grade instrument with stereo Hi Fi output... Dead quiet...
  
 Note: The CP 300 also has fully balanced stereo outputs...


----------



## signet02

Gibosi: Just pulled the trigger on a muses02 from your recommended eBay vendor... I think I prefer a more liquid tube-like presentation...  I may purchase another LD 1+... One for my audio system, and one for the aforementioned purpose [digital keyboard]...
  
 So, ultimately, at least for now, it will be the Muses02 / WE 408A combination...
  
 I am, however, planning to buy a pair of Sennheiser HD 600 headphones next month... These are listed as 300 ohm, and I'm expecting that I will have to use the high gain setting for these... I'm going with the HD 600s because they are listed as a professional headphone that will do double duty for both my digital keyboard and audio system, as my budget is somewhat constrained...
  
 A pro headphone will take a heavier hit, SPL-wise, and also handle the kind of waveforms an electronic instrument can put out, like some of the synth voices, which can almost be a square wave... Also, the HD 600s are fully modular, and the user can replace almost all the parts...
  
 I would like to thank you all for your good info... It has helped immensely...


----------



## i luvmusic 2

I did some test running LD 1 without the bottom plate and on some tubes it pickup noise/hum anyway i'am about to cut it open now.


----------



## gibosi

signet02 said:


> So, ultimately, at least for now, it will be the Muses02 / WE 408A combination...
> 
> I am, however, planning to buy a pair of Sennheiser HD 600 headphones next month...


 
  
 When you get your new opamp and headphones, I hope you will come back here and give us your impressions.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

Here it is.....


----------



## signet02

gibosi said:


> When you get your new opamp and headphones, I hope you will come back here and give us your impressions.


 
  
 You can bet on it, G...  I'm recording some stuff on the digital piano today, and I look forward to being able to monitor the recording through the LD 1+ instead of just using the standard headphone output on the piano... As far as my HI Fi system, I'm sure the combination will benefit that as well...
  
 Perhaps I'll send a link to a sound file of some of my stuff later in the month...


----------



## MunkyOne

signet02 said:


> You can bet on it, G...  I'm recording some stuff on the digital piano today, and I look forward to being able to monitor the recording through the LD 1+ instead of just using the standard headphone output on the piano... As far as my HI Fi system, I'm sure the combination will benefit that as well...
> 
> Perhaps I'll send a link to a sound file of some of my stuff later in the month...


 
 What a doos idea!  I didn't even think of trying my LD1+ with my piano.  Thanks for the great idea for when I am forced to play through headphones.   If it sounds good, I may have to do a piano mod


----------



## MunkyOne

i luvmusic 2 said:


> Here it is.....


 

 Excellent!!   A very neat job.   This is my plan.  What did you use to make the precise cut in the bottom plate?


----------



## i luvmusic 2

munkyone said:


> Excellent!!   A very neat job.   This is my plan.  What did you use to make the precise cut in the bottom plate?


 
 I used DREMEL with a cut-off wheel,THANK YOU!


----------



## signet02

Newbie question: How do you know which way to put a different op amp in?... I have the jumper thing down, and there's only one way to put a tube in, but the op amp thing has me a bit worried...  ???...


----------



## gibosi

signet02 said:


> Newbie question: How do you know which way to put a different op amp in?... I have the jumper thing down, and there's only one way to put a tube in, but the op amp thing has me a bit worried...  ???...


 
  
 You should notice that the socket has a notch at one end. And then you should notice that the chip has either an impressed circle or a notch at one end. So simply match the notch of the socket to the circle or notch on the chip and insert.
  
 Here is a picture of the LD1+ circuit board (an older version). You will notice that the chip has a notch on the left-hand side.
  





  
 Here is chip with an impressed circle:


----------



## signet02

Thanks... Your info arrived just in time... I got my BB 2107AP in the mail this aft... I think I'll roll the WE 408As in, along with the BB op amp this eve... Will report later... Have a feeling it may take awhile to hear a difference...


----------



## gibosi

signet02 said:


> Thanks... Your info arrived just in time... I got my BB 2107AP in the mail this aft... I think I'll roll the WE 408As in, along with the BB op amp this eve... Will report later... Have a feeling it may take awhile to hear a difference...


 
  
 I suggest that you make one change at a time. In this way, you will be able to distinguish the differences between op amps alone... And the tubes alone. Have fun!


----------



## JoeDoe

Well, I made it about two weeks without a little LD. The replacement came in today and after opening it to find out what a rattle was, it was a jumper that apparently is cracked. Also noticed there is another one that is nowhere to be found. So I have two total.

Any fellow little dot enthusiasts have a couple spare jumpers to share?


----------



## signet02

gibosi said:


> I suggest that you make one change at a time. In this way, you will be able to distinguish the differences between op amps alone... And the tubes alone. Have fun!


 
  
 Sorry, G... I just couldn't help myself... I changed the tubes and the op amp... The first thing I noticed was that there was no break-in hum at all with the WE 408A tubes... I also noticed that they don't light up as much as the 6J1 tubes... I did shift the jumpers to '408A'  from '6J1'... J1 and J2 still open... 
  
 One helpful hint:  Mark the rear of the bottom plate with a piece of tape so it goes back the same way... Otherwise, the holes don't line up very well, and you can strip out a screw... Also, you need to hold the bottom plate down while starting the screws, also to align the holes...
  
 Now for the break-in...


----------



## Arsis

signet02 said:


> Thanks... Your info arrived just in time... I got my BB 2107AP in the mail this aft... I think I'll roll the WE 408As in, along with the BB op amp this eve... Will report later... Have a feeling it may take awhile to hear a difference...



Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the 2107/408A combo. I put in a 2107 with the stock tubes and I'm not liking it. Mushy, mushy bass


----------



## kvtaco17

joedoe said:


> Well, I made it about two weeks without a little LD. The replacement came in today and after opening it to find out what a rattle was, it was a jumper that apparently is cracked. Also noticed there is another one that is nowhere to be found. So I have two total.
> 
> Any fellow little dot enthusiasts have a couple spare jumpers to share?


 
 hit up a radio shack... they have jumpers!


----------



## signet02

arsis said:


> Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the 2107/408A combo. I put in a 2107 with the stock tubes and I'm not liking it. Mushy, mushy bass


 
  
 A, I'll let you know... I have a muses02 on the way, and I'm thinking that that is probably a better match... This will take some time... More later...


----------



## SJWorne

Hey guys,
 I get a hell of a lot of microphonics from my headphone cable... is this normal?
 I'm using Grado Sr125i's, and maybe about half the length of cable gives me a lot of 'dinging' noises if i knock it or even touch it.  
 Is this anything to do with gain? If it was set for the higher impedance could this be the case? And would it damage my headphones?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## kvtaco17

High gain can aggravate an existing issue... My LD1+ never was microphonic when it was stock with any grados. I'd try tapping the tubes to see if its them causing the noise... Even try another pair.


----------



## JoeDoe

LD1+ + Voskhods + Padauk SR80is + Bad Company = What I'm talkin' bout!


----------



## Endcode

Hey guys, I was thinking about getting a new set of tubes for my I+. Im looking for something a little bit more dry and airy sounding, I'm currently using the basic 5654 tubes. The thing is, i think i lost my jumpers, so are there any tubes that would work in my current situation?


----------



## gibosi

endcode said:


> Hey guys, I was thinking about getting a new set of tubes for my I+. Im looking for something a little bit more dry and airy sounding, I'm currently using the basic 5654 tubes. The thing is, i think i lost my jumpers, so are there any tubes that would work in my current situation?


 
  
 Well, first, you can go to Radio Shack or any electronics part store and buy computer jumpers:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Computer-Jumpers-Qty-15-Color-Black-Size-2-54mm-0-1-inch-Spacing-/141171663163?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20de7ca13b
  
 GE 6HM5 fits your description and it works in the 5654 setup:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-GE-General-Electric-6HM5-6HA5-Vacuum-Tube-NIB-NOS-New-USA-/141143867937?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item20dcd48221


----------



## SJWorne

kvtaco17 said:


> High gain can aggravate an existing issue... My LD1+ never was microphonic when it was stock with any grados. I'd try tapping the tubes to see if its them causing the noise... Even try another pair.


 
 Yeah if I tap the tubes then I get the same noise... Guessing that this shouldn't happen?
 I'm pretty sure that my amp is set to low gain, but should I try switching it anyway?  It won't damage my headphones will it?


----------



## signet02

i luvmusic 2 said:


> Here it is.....


 
  
 Ilove: Just an idea: If you want to really make the edge of your cut look pro, try using a sharpie pen on the cut edge... After that, no one will know it wasn't a factory job... It comes up shiny black, just like the exterior of chassis... PS: A little needle file work, and fine grit cloth before may also help...


----------



## gibosi

sjworne said:


> Yeah if I tap the tubes then I get the same noise... Guessing that this shouldn't happen?
> I'm pretty sure that my amp is set to low gain, but should I try switching it anyway?  It won't damage my headphones will it?


 
  
 You can try changing the gain setting, but I doubt it will make any difference. Some tubes are microphonic and some are not. If the microphonic noise is driving you nuts, then replacing the tube(s) is the only solution. On the other hand, if you usually stay somewhat immobile while you listening, then maybe it is something you can ignore.


----------



## SJWorne

gibosi said:


> You can try changing the gain setting, but I doubt it will make any difference. Some tubes are microphonic and some are not. If the microphonic noise is driving you nuts, then replacing the tube(s) is the only solution. On the other hand, if you usually stay somewhat immobile while you listening, then maybe it is something you can ignore.


 
 Ok thanks for that!
 I have some 'Valvo' 6CQ6 tubes.  Will maybe try some of the mullard m8161's


----------



## MunkyOne

sjworne said:


> Ok thanks for that!
> I have some 'Valvo' 6CQ6 tubes.  Will maybe try some of the mullard m8161's


 
  
 Hi SJWorne,
  
 I tried the same Valvo 6CQ6, and found them to be very microphonic indeed, though quite good sounding after a period of burn-in.  I replaced them with the Mullard M8161 (CV4015) which are not at all microphonic.  I can tap them and hear nothing through my headphones.  They are mil-spec, so probably have more robust innards, less prone to vibration.  Additionally, the Mullards sound quite a bit more refined in every way than the Valvo 'equivalent'.  Like all Mullards, the M8161 is on the warm side, but in a very likeable way, if warm is your taste.


----------



## SJWorne

munkyone said:


> Hi SJWorne,
> 
> I tried the same Valvo 6CQ6, and found them to be very microphonic indeed, though quite good sounding after a period of burn-in.  I replaced them with the Mullard M8161 (CV4015) which are not at all microphonic.  I can tap them and hear nothing through my headphones.  They are mil-spec, so probably have more robust innards, less prone to vibration.  Additionally, the Mullards sound quite a bit more refined in every way than the Valvo 'equivalent'.  Like all Mullards, the M8161 is on the warm side, but in a very likeable way, if warm is your taste.


 
 Hi Munky, thanks very much for clearing that up, glad it's not just my amp/tubes! 
 I can't say i've had enough experience with tubes and warm/cold sounding tubes/amps/DAC's, but I will get some to try out! 
 Thanks again!


----------



## i luvmusic 2

signet02 said:


> Sorry, G... I just couldn't help myself... I changed the tubes and the op amp... The first thing I noticed was that there was no break-in hum at all with the WE 408A tubes... I also noticed that they don't light up as much as the 6J1 tubes... I did shift the jumpers to '408A'  from '6J1'... J1 and J2 still open...
> 
> One helpful hint:  Mark the rear of the bottom plate with a piece of tape so it goes back the same way... Otherwise, the holes don't line up very well, and you can strip out a screw... Also, you need to hold the bottom plate down while starting the screws, also to align the holes...
> 
> Now for the break-in...


 
 Or you can cut a opening on the bottom plate.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

sjworne said:


> Hey guys,
> I get a hell of a lot of microphonics from my headphone cable... is this normal?
> I'm using Grado Sr125i's, and maybe about half the length of cable gives me a lot of 'dinging' noises if i knock it or even touch it.
> Is this anything to do with gain? If it was set for the higher impedance could this be the case? And would it damage my headphones?
> ...


 
 I have the same problem but only with MULLARD 6AM6S/M8083 tubes try swapping tubes.


----------



## SJWorne

i luvmusic 2 said:


> I have the same problem but only with MULLARD 6AM6S/M8083 tubes try swapping tubes.


 
 Will do!


----------



## i luvmusic 2

sjworne said:


> Will do!


 
 I know it works for me Good Luck.


----------



## signet02

i luvmusic 2 said:


> Or you can cut a opening on the bottom plate.


 
  
 Ilove: I'd like to be able to do that; however, I currently have my LD1+ on top of my digital piano, and with the WE408A tubes, the unit runs a lot hotter... I know the top of the Yamaha CP 300 is metal, and that it can take a certain amount of heat... But I don't know how much before it might discolor the paint... Perhaps the cut-out would make the unit run cooler, but the heat would likely radiate out of the bottom cut-out, possibly making the heat transference to the piano top issue worse... So, there's a question-mark there...


----------



## i luvmusic 2

signet02 said:


> Ilove: I'd like to be able to do that; however, I currently have my LD1+ on top of my digital piano, and with the WE408A tubes, the unit runs a lot hotter... I know the top of the Yamaha CP 300 is metal, and that it can take a certain amount of heat... But I don't know how much before it might discolor the paint... Perhaps the cut-out would make the unit run cooler, but the heat would likely radiate out of the bottom cut-out, possibly making the heat transference to the piano top issue worse... So, there's a question-mark there...


 
 HI,
   Actually i don't run my LD with open bottom i still put back the cut-out plate held by a masking tape  for  now until i find a  hinge and latch that i like to hold it in place.


----------



## MunkyOne

i luvmusic 2 said:


> HI,
> Actually i don't run my LD with open bottom i still put back the cut-out plate held by a masking tape  for  now until i find a  hinge and latch that i like to hold it in place.


 

 I too, am looking for hinges.  The problem seems to be the clearance between the bottom plate and the tops of the larger capacitors.  So I am looking for two narrow hinges, one for each side.   Do you have any ideas for a suitable latch?


----------



## i luvmusic 2

munkyone said:


> I too, am looking for hinges.  The problem seems to be the clearance between the bottom plate and the tops of the larger capacitors.  So I am looking for two narrow hinges, one for each side.   Do you have any ideas for a suitable latch?


 
 I'am thinking  one of those jewelry box latch and hinges.


----------



## SJWorne

Has anyone pulled the volume knob off at all?
 How does it come off?
 Just thinking of replacing it with something with a bit of texture rather than it being smoother than my dad's head


----------



## MunkyOne

sjworne said:


> Has anyone pulled the volume knob off at all?
> How does it come off?
> Just thinking of replacing it with something with a bit of texture rather than it being smoother than my dad's head


 

 You should be able to prise the knob from the spindle.  It is probably a splined spindle, as there is no retaining screw.  I would remove the tubes before attempting to remove the knob, as it may require some effort if it's a tight fit.
  
 It would look cool with a knob from some vintage radio, or similar.  Post a pic when your'e done


----------



## JoeDoe

sjworne said:


> Has anyone pulled the volume knob off at all?
> How does it come off?
> Just thinking of replacing it with something with a bit of texture rather than it being smoother than my dad's head


 
 Mine pulled right off. Almost too easily...


----------



## gibosi

This is very good to know!
  
 I would really like to replace mine too. If I am measuring correctly, the stock knob is about 22mm wide x 17mm tall.... Maybe knob a bit more than 30mm will fit? I wonder if 35mm is too large?
  
 All those who have replaced the knob, please post a pic and tell us the size.


----------



## SJWorne

I will definitely have a look into it... I know there's a US online store called potentiometer.com or something like that and they allow you to customize sizes and stuff


----------



## SJWorne

joedoe said:


> Mine pulled right off. Almost too easily...


 
 Hi Joe, 
 Not had chance to pull mine off yet, but can you recall what type of shaft it was? Was it a D-shaped shaft or was it splined?


----------



## JoeDoe

I could totally be mixing this up with one of the cMoys I assembled this weekend but I believe it was D-shaped.


----------



## SJWorne

joedoe said:


> I could totally be mixing this up with one of the cMoys I assembled this weekend but I believe it was D-shaped.


 
 I just managed to pull mine off and mine was splined... maybe they used different potentiometers on different revisions or batches, who knows 
  
 EDIT:
 Ok so done a little bit of research and if you have a splined knob (which is more likely than a D-shaped one, and also munky said it was splined ), then it will be the 6mm splined shaft that you will want.  Due to there being a lack of D-shaped shafted knobs at this size (lololol), then I would be leaning towards yours being splined too Joe


----------



## JoeDoe

sjworne said:


> I just managed to pull mine off and mine was splined... maybe they used different potentiometers on different revisions or batches, who knows


 
 Thank you for sparing my pride, but I'm sure I was remembering the two or three cMoys I was working on.


----------



## SJWorne

joedoe said:


> Thank you for sparing my pride, but I'm sure I was remembering the two or three cMoys I was working on.


 
 As I said, who knows  lol
 After all this talk of a new knob... I cannot find one I like anywhere


----------



## signet02

Well, I got my muses02 in today, and you know I just had to put it in... Anyway, it's acting like any new device:  A little subdued at first... Put a looped demo on my digital piano ( where I have my LD 1+ right now)... Just running it in for a few hours...
  
 I'm currently running the WE 408A tubes...
  
 Note: My Yamaha CP 300 has HiFi stereo outputs, both unbalanced and balanced, and is dead quiet... Hoping the sound comes up after 30 hrs. or so... The ole' 5 on, five off routine...
  
 Friday: I order a pair of Sennheiser HD 600s... I'm hoping that that will also add to the definition I can get from my instrument... Note: I'm ordering from Sennheiser Factory Outlet... $341.00, like new, full warranty, free ship... [Note: No affiliation]
  
 I think those cans will work well for both professional and home audio use...
  
 Anyone have any recommendations for alternative tubes?... I'm looking for lots of air on top, fair bass, and 'there' midrange...


----------



## JoeDoe

signet02 said:


> Anyone have any recommendations for alternative tubes?... I'm looking for lots of air on top, fair bass, and 'there' midrange...


 
  
 Tung Sol 6AK5


----------



## kvtaco17

signet02 said:


> Well, I got my muses02 in today, and you know I just had to put it in... Anyway, it's acting like any new device:  A little subdued at first... Put a looped demo on my digital piano ( where I have my LD 1+ right now)... Just running it in for a few hours...
> 
> I'm currently running the WE 408A tubes...
> 
> ...


 

 Yugo or Sylvania 6HM5... way better then any of the other stock compatible tubes.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

signet02 said:


> Well, I got my muses02 in today, and you know I just had to put it in... Anyway, it's acting like any new device:  A little subdued at first... Put a looped demo on my digital piano ( where I have my LD 1+ right now)... Just running it in for a few hours...
> 
> I'm currently running the WE 408A tubes...
> 
> ...


----------



## HPiper

signet02 said:


> Well, I got my muses02 in today, and you know I just had to put it in... Anyway, it's acting like any new device:  A little subdued at first... Put a looped demo on my digital piano ( where I have my LD 1+ right now)... Just running it in for a few hours...
> 
> I'm currently running the WE 408A tubes...
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sorry to say this but based on what you want I think you need some other headphones not another tube. What you are describing are Grado headphones, something like an RS1i or PS500.Too late now , but if you can I would definitely try to audition a pair of Grado's I think you would like what you hear. I have the best of both worlds, some HD600's and some Grado's. There isn't a tube made that is going to make the 600's sound like my 225i's. I wish there were though )


----------



## signet02

hpiper said:


> Sorry to say this but based on what you want I think you need some other headphones not another tube. What you are describing are Grado headphones, something like an RS1i or PS500.Too late now , but if you can I would definitely try to audition a pair of Grado's I think you would like what you hear. I have the best of both worlds, some HD600's and some Grado's. There isn't a tube made that is going to make the 600's sound like my 225i's. I wish there were though )


 
  
 Well, H... It looks like providence has stepped in once again... I nixed the HD 600 purchase, and opted for a pair of these:  http://www.akg.com/K712+PRO-827.html?pid=1408
  
 AKG K 712s... Remember that I need a high quality set of headphones for both recording AND home audio use...
  
 They are more expensive than the HD 600s, but I think they'll give me more of what I'm looking for...
  
 Opinions?...


----------



## deadspider187

signet02 said:


> Well, H... It looks like providence has stepped in once again... I nixed the HD 600 purchase, and opted for a pair of these:  http://www.akg.com/K712+PRO-827.html?pid=1408
> 
> AKG K 712s... Remember that I need a high quality set of headphones for both recording AND home audio use...
> 
> ...




I've been using my K712 with a LD I+ and tube rolling for a little over a week. The pairing seems nice with most tubes. However, I find the amp too loud at even the lowest gain using a cdac (odac). running from my Nexus 7 the LD I+ helps with the volume a lot, so it's a toss-up. I'm really liking the K712 though. It should be getting more attention then it is at the moment.


----------



## signet02

deadspider187 said:


> I've been using my K712 with a LD I+ and tube rolling for a little over a week. The pairing seems nice with most tubes. However, I find the amp too loud at even the lowest gain using a cdac (odac). running from my Nexus 7 the LD I+ helps with the volume a lot, so it's a toss-up. I'm really liking the K712 though. It should be getting more attention then it is at the moment.


 
  
 Wow... That's unexpected, as some say that even at 62 ohms, they are a bit hard to drive... Oh, well... We'll see what we see... Where are you putting your volume knob on the LD 1+ when listening?... What is the gain output of your DAC?...  At any rate, keep me posted as to what tubes you're using, and what results you're getting...
  
 I ordered the K712 primarily to bring up the definition when listening to my Yamaha CP 300 digital keyboard through headphones / LD 1+... But I intend to use the LD 1+ with my audio system as well...


----------



## HPiper

signet02 said:


> Well, H... It looks like providence has stepped in once again... I nixed the HD 600 purchase, and opted for a pair of these:  http://www.akg.com/K712+PRO-827.html?pid=1408
> 
> AKG K 712s... Remember that I need a high quality set of headphones for both recording AND home audio use...
> 
> ...


 

 I think you are right. I am not familiar with that particular AKG but I have heard the 701's and they sound great.


----------



## signet02

OK... My next question:  I'm getting a matched pair of Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV tubes from Yenaudio, but I don't really know what family of tubes they belong to for rolling into the LD 1+... ???...


----------



## kvtaco17

signet02 said:


> OK... My next question:  I'm getting a matched pair of Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV tubes from Yenaudio, but I don't really know what family of tubes they belong to for rolling into the LD 1+... ???...


 
 EF95


----------



## deadspider187

signet02 said:


> Wow... That's unexpected, as some say that even at 62 ohms, they are a bit hard to drive... Oh, well... We'll see what we see... Where are you putting your volume knob on the LD 1+ when listening?... What is the gain output of your DAC?...  At any rate, keep me posted as to what tubes you're using, and what results you're getting...
> 
> I ordered the K712 primarily to bring up the definition when listening to my Yamaha CP 300 digital keyboard through headphones / LD 1+... But I intend to use the LD 1+ with my audio system as well...


 
  
 I don't think they are hard to drive for _volume_ so much as they require a high amount of current to get the proper control of the driver.  I can bring them to loud volume out of just about anything I've tried with a headphone jack, but they sound way better out of the Little Dot.  For comparison, I also have a PA2V2 that will bring them to extremely loud levels, but the sound is artificially warm and has much narrower soundstage.
  
 As far as listening volume goes, maybe it's just the nature of the LDI+, but volume is very dependent on the source used.  Out of my HTC One or Nexus 7 the LDI+ I listen to the volume at 11 o'clock with the gain set to high.  Out of the cdac I listen to the volume at 8 o'clock (the lowest it can go without channel imbalance) with the gain set to low.
  
 At the moment I'm using we408A's, but the story stays more or less the same with any of the tubes I have tried.


----------



## Pepe Silvia

remember to take off the jumpers of the j3 and j4 slots for gain (more volume) if you need to


----------



## JoeDoe

Posted my review of the LD1 earlier this week if anyone would like to take a gander and/or comment.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/little-dot-i/reviews/10397


----------



## gibosi

joedoe said:


> Posted my review of the LD1 earlier this week if anyone would like to take a gander and/or comment.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/little-dot-i/reviews/10397


 
  
 A very nice review. 
  
 But I do have one comment:
  
 " 2. Opening the chassis to swap jumpers or opamps is a little inconvenient. Just to swap one or two pieces of plastic, I have to remove all 8 screws. Not hard to do, but the screws that hold the base to the upper half are tiny and sometimes hard to re-screw. Not to mention they are a part of the ground circuit, so if you lose one, you may open your amp up to noise. "
  
 I remove only 4 screws, the bottom 2 from the front and the bottom 2 from the back.


----------



## JoeDoe

gibosi said:


> A very nice review.
> 
> But I do have one comment:
> 
> I remove only 4 screws, the bottom 2 from the front and the bottom 2 from the back.




Ha ha, just had one of those moments where you do something so dumb you can do is laugh at yourself.

Will edit shortly. Don't know why that never dawned on me!


----------



## kvtaco17

joedoe said:


> Posted my review of the LD1 earlier this week if anyone would like to take a gander and/or comment.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/little-dot-i/reviews/10397


 
 Well done!


----------



## JoeDoe

Just got a pair of GE JAN 5654 blackplates in the mail today and I am blown away. The separation and detail is the best I've heard from a stock compatible tube. It's like a Voskhod on steroids! Trombone Shorty, Dire Straits, and Tribe Called Quest are sounding killer!


----------



## cshea71

I have looked for this but can't find a posting that addresses what tubes I can use with the LD I+ without having to perform other mods (Jumpers and such).   This is my first amp, and my first posting.   I am EXTREMELY nooby.   Just ordered the LD I+ to pair with my macbook pro and a Syba DAC.   Please be gentle.


----------



## gibosi

cshea71 said:


> I have looked for this but can't find a posting that addresses what tubes I can use with the LD I+ without having to perform other mods (Jumpers and such).   This is my first amp, and my first posting.   I am EXTREMELY nooby.   Just ordered the LD I+ to pair with my macbook pro and a Syba DAC.   Please be gentle.


 
  
 Traditional tubes:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/364043/little-dot-i-tube-rolling
  
  
 Non-traditional tubes - You can run anything under the two columns "EF95" and "EF91/92" without mods:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/1140#post_9392055
  
 Have fun!


----------



## JoeDoe

Look out! Finally got some extra jumpers and the Mullard 8083s are giving the Voskhods a run for their money!


----------



## cshea71

I still haven't received my LD I+ yet as it is coming from China and it sounds like I am at best 10 days out.   I have bid on a matched pair of Voskholds from the 70's.   REALLY looking forward to checking it out.   Two questions; is there a difference between NOS tubes from the 50's and 40's and later stock tubes of the 70's?    Also, do you find a huge difference in the tube families?   I am speaking of general varieties.   Sounds like it made a huge difference in to the 8083's even without burn in time.   Is this with the stock op amp?


----------



## JoeDoe

cshea71 said:


> I still haven't received my LD I+ yet as it is coming from China and it sounds like I am at best 10 days out.   I have bid on a matched pair of Voskholds from the 70's.   REALLY looking forward to checking it out.   Two questions; is there a difference between NOS tubes from the 50's and 40's and later stock tubes of the 70's?    Also, do you find a huge difference in the tube families?   I am speaking of general varieties.   Sounds like it made a huge difference in to the 8083's even without burn in time.   Is this with the stock op amp?




When it comes to NOS versus not, I've only ever had New Old Stock so I can't compare. I would imagine though, that new old stock versus those that I've been used to varying degrees would have noticeable sound differences.

The Mullards are the first non-6AK5 tubes I've used so once again, I can't comment on huge changes for family. The tubes sound different but I don't think I called the difference huge.

And this is with a dual 627 to mono opamp adapter.


----------



## gibosi

cshea71 said:


> I still haven't received my LD I+ yet as it is coming from China and it sounds like I am at best 10 days out.   I have bid on a matched pair of Voskholds from the 70's.   REALLY looking forward to checking it out.   Two questions; is there a difference between NOS tubes from the 50's and 40's and later stock tubes of the 70's?    Also, do you find a huge difference in the tube families?   I am speaking of general varieties.   Sounds like it made a huge difference in to the 8083's even without burn in time.   Is this with the stock op amp?


 
  
 Yes, the internal construction of tubes changed and evolved over time, as the result of advances in materials and manufacturing techniques as well as feed-back from the field, and as one would expect, different construction typically results in a different sound. And yes, tubes from different tube families often sound hugely different.


----------



## Melvins

joedoe said:


> No hiss = sonic bliss


 
 lovely. great combo. what modded grados are those


----------



## JoeDoe

melvins said:


> lovely. great combo. what modded grados are those




At the time those were Ebonied 225's. They've since been changed to SR 80s and will be finding their new owner this weekend.


----------



## signet02

Does anyone out there have any experience with these tubes in the LD 1+?...
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/181140304045?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649
  
 Do you think they're as good as the venerable GE version?...


----------



## i luvmusic 2

Two of my favourite tubes are 6HM5 Yugoslavia and TUNG-SOL 6CS6/EH90 but i just started using Octal now so those two tubes are not getting much love anymore.You Ladies and gentlemen should give those two tubes a try.


----------



## AK7579

I got the 6HM5 tubes a couple of weeks ago and I am loving them.  They are cheap and sound amazing with the LD1+ and Grados. I will be purchasing another set soon as back ups.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

I'am glad you like them....


----------



## gibosi

signet02 said:


> Does anyone out there have any experience with these tubes in the LD 1+?...
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/181140304045?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649
> 
> Do you think they're as good as the venerable GE version?...


 
  
 While I suspect that "acceptance date: 2/45" is actually February, 1945, and not 1942, these are still very old 6AK5s. If I was still rolling these 6AK5s, it might be interesting to see how they compare with later Sylvanias. However, I agree with the other posters that your money is better spend on a pair of 6HM5.


----------



## cshea71

I just got my LD I+ yesterday and boy is it awesome!   I love this thing.   Even with the stock tubes and no mods done it sounds great.   It really brings a warmth and feel to the cold digital FLAC files that i was looking for.   I notice that even running with the onboard DAC out of the MacBook Pro instead of my Syba Usb DAC, it sounds equally as good.   I guess that answers the question of which is more important - DAC or AMP.   One thing, I am noticing a significant buzz.   Especially in the noise floor.   When there is nothing playing it is pretty loud and then the sound covers it up.   This sound is present even when there is no input plugged into the amp.   When I crank it to about 70 the buzz goes away a little and then comes back when turned up all the way.  Is this a function of the poor quality stock tubes, or do I have a bigger problem.   I hate to even make a thing out of it because i love the way this things performs so well, and it may be that a little buzz is part of the package.   Overall this thing is a monster with my Grados 60i's


----------



## JoeDoe

cshea71 said:


> I just got my LD I+ yesterday and boy is it awesome!   I love this thing.   Even with the stock tubes and no mods done it sounds great.   It really brings a warmth and feel to the cold digital FLAC files that i was looking for.   I notice that even running with the onboard DAC out of the MacBook Pro instead of my Syba Usb DAC, it sounds equally as good.   I guess that answers the question of which is more important - DAC or AMP.   One thing, I am noticing a significant buzz.   Especially in the noise floor.   When there is nothing playing it is pretty loud and then the sound covers it up.   This sound is present even when there is no input plugged into the amp.   When I crank it to about 70 the buzz goes away a little and then comes back when turned up all the way.  Is this a function of the poor quality stock tubes, or do I have a bigger problem.   I hate to even make a thing out of it because i love the way this things performs so well, and it may be that a little buzz is part of the package.   Overall this thing is a monster with my Grados 60i's




Good for you man! Glad to hear you dig it. The hum could be one of several things: 1. Stock tubes 2. Improper grounding 3. Power supply. 

Have any other tubes to try?


----------



## cshea71

Unfortunately I haven't received my other tubes yet.  I have tried trouble shooting by doing everything that I could think to do without replacing the tubes.   I guess I couldn't try to run it without the tubes in it?  That would probably screw it up.   I can just wait for some new tubes.   I was hoping that this would be something that someone else may have run into.   The AC plug that I have has a ground on it.   I hope it isn't the power supply that would be a drag.


----------



## Arsis

What non-Grado cans do guys like with your LDI+? Not diggin' my LD... I sold my Grado SR325is.


----------



## JoeDoe

arsis said:


> What non-Grado cans do guys like with your LDI+? Not diggin' my LD... I sold my Grado SR325is.



1. That's too bad. To me, the little dot was made for Grados.

2. I also love what it does to the Sony MDR V6. Smooths the top end and add some noticeable soundstage.


----------



## Arsis

joedoe said:


> 1. That's too bad. To me, the little dot was made for Grados.
> 
> 2. I also love what it does to the Sony MDR V6. Smooths the top end and add some noticeable soundstage.




The Grados just weren't for me. Too much treble tilt for my ears and too uncomfortable for the price.


----------



## gibosi

cshea71 said:


> Unfortunately I haven't received my other tubes yet.  I have tried trouble shooting by doing everything that I could think to do without replacing the tubes.   I guess I couldn't try to run it without the tubes in it?  That would probably screw it up.   I can just wait for some new tubes.   I was hoping that this would be something that someone else may have run into.   The AC plug that I have has a ground on it.   I hope it isn't the power supply that would be a drag.


 
  
 New tubes are often noisy and will quiet down after 20 or 30 hours, and this is the most likely cause. Cleaning the pins might also help. The other common cause is stray RF from cell phones, printers, refrigerators and so forth, so you might want to move the amp around on your desk to see if it makes a difference. And perhaps even move it to another room as a test.
  
 And no, I would not advise you to run the amp without tubes....


----------



## cshea71

gibosi said:


> New tubes are often noisy and will quiet down after 20 or 30 hours, and this is the most likely cause. Cleaning the pins might also help. The other common cause is stray RF from cell phones, printers, refrigerators and so forth, so you might want to move the amp around on your desk to see if it makes a difference. And perhaps even move it to another room as a test.
> 
> And no, I would not advise you to run the amp without tubes....


 
 Thanks!   I am hoping that is the case.   This is my first time with tubes, or even amps in general and I am so happy with what I hear so far, just would be nice to have the buzz cleaned up.  I have some more tubes coming to swap out, so that will help i think.   I have tried getting it away from RF interference, as well as isolated it to a single power source aware from power strips.   I have checked all the screwed to make sure they are tightened, and I have tried it with a different power cord all with the same results.   I am hoping that it will calm down a bit after I change out the tubes and I don't have to start going McGiever on it.....


----------



## gibosi

And again, new tubes often buzz and hum, so the next pair you plug in might be noisy too.  Give them 20 or 30 hours to settle down before judging them as "bad".


----------



## i luvmusic 2

Most common source of my LD 1 noise is from my FURNACE but with Octal tubes have no noise.


----------



## cshea71

Hi guys,
 Again, I hope that I am not overlooking an already discussed issue with the LD I+, but thought I should go ahead and ask about using LD and DACs.   What DACs do you use in your system, and just how necessary are they with the LD I+.   I have a Syba USB, which I was using with my Macbook Pro, but I started just using the onboard sound card with the LD (Bypassing the Syba) and I think it sounds just fine.   I really don't hear any interference with the hard drive or any of that jazz.   Again, it may be that the Syba is just not a very good DAC.  Also, I know that there is a lot of conflicting information regarding wether or not a USB transfer is as good as SPDIF, and that is i guess what I have when I am going  from 3.5 out to RCA, no?   I am so confused.....


----------



## gibosi

cshea71 said:


> Hi guys,
> Again, I hope that I am not overlooking an already discussed issue with the LD I+, but thought I should go ahead and ask about using LD and DACs.   What DACs do you use in your system, and just how necessary are they with the LD I+.   I have a Syba USB, which I was using with my Macbook Pro, but I started just using the onboard sound card with the LD (Bypassing the Syba) and I think it sounds just fine.   I really don't hear any interference with the hard drive or any of that jazz.   Again, it may be that the Syba is just not a very good DAC.  Also, I know that there is a lot of conflicting information regarding wether or not a USB transfer is as good as SPDIF, and that is i guess what I have when I am going  from 3.5 out to RCA, no?   I am so confused.....


 
  
 For someone just beginning, for the money, it is hard to beat one of hifimeDIY's Sabre DACs.
  
 http://www.hifimediy.com/


----------



## JoeDoe

gibosi said:


> For someone just beginning, for the money, it is hard to beat one of hifimeDIY's Sabre DACs.
> 
> http://www.hifimediy.com/


 
 +1 
  
 I use the U2 and I'm pretty satisfied since most of my listening is done from my MacBook Pro.


----------



## cshea71

Do you hear a huge difference when you take the DAC out of the lineup?   And if so how do you quantify or qualify the difference.   Is it night and day?


----------



## i luvmusic 2

I finally received my Opamp( OPA2107AP)from snail mail sevices  and i 've been listening to it for 2 hours now i can't tell the deference between the stock opamp and this schiit not like swapping tubes you can actually tell the deference right on the spot.


----------



## JoeDoe

cshea71 said:


> Do you hear a huge difference when you take the DAC out of the lineup?   And if so how do you quantify or qualify the difference.   Is it night and day?


 
 I don't think I'd say huge, but certainly noticeable. The DAC for 1. has more dynamic range 2. better definition at the extremes of the freq response. Trying listening for the super highs and super lows.


----------



## hsubox

Just received my LD1+ today! I have the EF92 set up, and out of the box, it's pretty fun. The highs are a little peaky on the RS1i's, but the bottom end is nice and tight. I do notice that one of the tubes has a low hum to it (confirmed by swapping the two tubes and hum swapped channels with it), so I guess I'll need to get new tubes. Not a terrible thing, but still. While I'm at it, I'll probably roll a couple of opamps to see what fun I can have with those, too.
  
 Schist Bifrost & LD1+ is like a customizable audio fan's dream...


----------



## gibosi

hsubox said:


> Just received my LD1+ today! I have the EF92 set up, and out of the box, it's pretty fun. The highs are a little peaky on the RS1i's, but the bottom end is nice and tight. I do notice that one of the tubes has a low hum to it (confirmed by swapping the two tubes and hum swapped channels with it), so I guess I'll need to get new tubes. Not a terrible thing, but still. While I'm at it, I'll probably roll a couple of opamps to see what fun I can have with those, too.


 
  
 Noisy tubes often quiet down after 20 or 30 hours of use. I suggest you give them some time before judging them as "bad".


----------



## hsubox

gibosi said:


> Noisy tubes often quiet down after 20 or 30 hours of use. I suggest you give them some time before judging them as "bad".


 
  
 Ah, good to know. This is my first tube amp. Thanks!


----------



## i luvmusic 2

Try 6HM5 Yugoslavia to me it's better than all of the  EF91 EF92 and EF95 tubes i've tried and it's cheap.these is my sugestions on tubes nothing to do with HUM/NOISE issue.Enjoy!


----------



## Arsis

arsis said:


> Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the 2107/408A combo. I put in a 2107 with the stock tubes and I'm not liking it. Mushy, mushy bass




I switched to high gain and I'm liking it better. So far it pairs best with my 2 highest impedance cans.
 Superlux HD-660 = 150 ohms
AKG K240M = 600 ohms

New tubes coming today! 
Matched Pair GE NOS/NIB 5654W
I'll report after they're burned in good.


----------



## Melvins

hsubox said:


> Just received my LD1+ today! I have the EF92 set up, and out of the box, it's pretty fun. The highs are a little peaky on the RS1i's, but the bottom end is nice and tight. I do notice that one of the tubes has a low hum to it (confirmed by swapping the two tubes and hum swapped channels with it), so I guess I'll need to get new tubes. Not a terrible thing, but still. While I'm at it, I'll probably roll a couple of opamps to see what fun I can have with those, too.
> 
> Schist Bifrost & LD1+ is like a customizable audio fan's dream...


 
 also make sure that they aren't around your cellphone or any other electrical devices that put out a signal. Sometimes putting a book or two under the LD takes away the buzz. To see if this will work, hold your hand over or around the tubes when listening to it. if the buzz goes away you'll know that it's some variable that i listed above.


----------



## shaolin95

Hello!
  
 I currently own a FiiO E11 (had the E6 before). My first headphone amps ever! 
 So, my line of headphones are
  
 Sony MDR-X10
 JVC RX700
 TDK IE800
 Sens HD212Pro
  
 Of those, the Sony gets the most of the usage as I like the fuller sound I get from it even if the soundstage is not as big as say the JVC. I do love bass but still do not like to kill details.
 Anyways, I always wanted to have a tube amp so this one got my attention.
 What should I expect going from the E11 to this tube amp and do you think it will be a good match?
 One thing I like about the E11 is the EQ switch which comes in handy for some songs heavily light in bass.
  
 Thanks !


----------



## Arsis

arsis said:


> I switched to high gain and I'm liking it better. So far it pairs best with my 2 highest impedance cans.
> Superlux HD-660 = 150 ohms
> AKG K240M = 600 ohms
> 
> ...




Much better! Immediate improvement even before burn in. It had the new tube hum for about 10 minutes. Now it's extremely quiet! No hum ( I have a Furman power conditioner ) and only barely audible hiss. I'm guessing that my low impedance cans were just more sensitive to the other tubes crunchy brittleness. The new tubes made a huge difference. All good now. I burned in 24+ hours w/ pink noise & 10+ hours of listening. I spent several hours in all genres (mostly 16/44.1 & 24/96) via iTunes=> Fiio E10 line out => LD I+ =>various cans. Very pleasant frequency response. Tight, controlled bass. Excellent depth, imaging and dynamics compared to my Fiio e10 alone and Pioneer VSX-822 receiver. 
I'm currently listening to Tool Lateralus vinyl => Realistic LAB-2200 linear tracker => Audio-Technica 311ep cartridge => Cambridge Audio 540P phono pre => LD I+ => Sennheiser Momentum. It's ever so slightly on the bright side but overall it's excellent. Vocals are smooth and slightly forward. Drums and percussion are very natural. Cymbals are crisp, airy and detailed. Guitars are powerful and well separated. 
I'm finally pleased with my Little Dot purchase!

Burr-Brown OPA2107 + GE 5654W + Momentum =


----------



## hsubox

Got bored, so took a neat picture of my Little Dot setup


----------



## Melvins

arsis said:


> Much better! Immediate improvement even before burn in. It had the new tube hum for about 10 minutes. Now it's extremely quiet! No hum ( I have a Furman power conditioner ) and only barely audible hiss. I'm guessing that my low impedance cans were just more sensitive to the other tubes crunchy brittleness. The new tubes made a huge difference. All good now. I burned in 24+ hours w/ pink noise & 10+ hours of listening. I spent several hours in all genres (mostly 16/44.1 & 24/96) via iTunes=> Fiio E10 line out => LD I+ =>various cans. Very pleasant frequency response. Tight, controlled bass. Excellent depth, imaging and dynamics compared to my Fiio e10 alone and Pioneer VSX-822 receiver.
> I'm currently listening to Tool Lateralus vinyl => Realistic LAB-2200 linear tracker => Audio-Technica 311ep cartridge => Cambridge Audio 540P phono pre => LD I+ => Sennheiser Momentum. It's ever so slightly on the bright side but overall it's excellent. Vocals are smooth and slightly forward. Drums and percussion are very natural. Cymbals are crisp, airy and detailed. Guitars are powerful and well separated.
> I'm finally pleased with my Little Dot purchase!
> 
> Burr-Brown OPA2107 + GE 5654W + Momentum =


 
 That's the exact same lay out i have. e10 plus LD1+. I love it. Had it over a year now..


----------



## Melvins

hsubox said:


> Got bored, so took a neat picture of my Little Dot setup


 
 What tubes ya got in that? They look awesome. Beautiful set up.


----------



## hsubox

melvins said:


> What tubes ya got in that? They look awesome. Beautiful set up.


 
 Those are the out-of-the-box EF92s. They're a little peaky, so I'm doing some research on what I can roll them with.


----------



## henree

Haven't been to this thread in years. Was cleaning out the house and I found my little dot  amp in the cabinet. Forgot all about it. Anyway I was wondering if you can use any 8 leg opamp? Really happy with my Sylvania 408 gold brands. Blowing my Matrix out of the water with detail retrieval. Will my Matrix opamp 4562 work ok in the little dot? It took me a while to get it running. I had a few bad jumpers that were loose and I was getting no sound. Any suggestions for Denon D7000?
 I have some old 8083 mullards. And Amperex 68k5w's I can swap out for the Gold 408's.


----------



## Melvins

hsubox said:


> Those are the out-of-the-box EF92s. They're a little peaky, so I'm doing some research on what I can roll them with.


 
 how do you like them with the RSi's? why'd you pick the LD1+, over say, more expensive tube amps that seem to sound a bit better with Grado's?


----------



## hsubox

melvins said:


> how do you like them with the RSi's? why'd you pick the LD1+, over say, more expensive tube amps that seem to sound a bit better with Grado's?




I like the combo. The stock EF92s are a bit bright, but the bass is wonderful (not too heavy). 

Mostly I got the amp because of 1) price 2) tube rolling options and 3) opamp rolling options. It's just so versatile that I can mix and match until I'm happy.


----------



## Melvins

hsubox said:


> I like the combo. The stock EF92s are a bit bright, but the bass is wonderful (not too heavy).
> 
> Mostly I got the amp because of 1) price 2) tube rolling options and 3) opamp rolling options. It's just so versatile that I can mix and match until I'm happy.


 
 I feel as if that's why a lot of people got it. There's just so much damn customization when it comes to the LD1+. I just know the MAD ear is a *nicer* sounding amp for Grado's, and I see a lot of people with the RS1i turning to that....


----------



## JoeDoe

melvins said:


> I feel as if that's why a lot of people got it. There's just so much damn customization when it comes to the LD1+. I just know the MAD ear is a *nicer* sounding amp for Grado's, and I see a lot of people with the RS1i turning to that....




I've heard both and the MAD certainly is better, but it's several times the price of the LD. I picked up my RS1s for a steal and got the LD for $120, so I get 80% of the sound for 50% of the price.


----------



## Melvins

that's pretty much what i've heard from people. that while they are better, they don't nearly warrant the price.


----------



## gibosi

henree said:


> Haven't been to this thread in years. Was cleaning out the house and I found my little dot  amp in the cabinet. Forgot all about it. Anyway I was wondering if you can use any 8 leg opamp? Really happy with my Sylvania 408 gold brands. Blowing my Matrix out of the water with detail retrieval. Will my Matrix opamp 4562 work ok in the little dot? It took me a while to get it running. I had a few bad jumpers that were loose and I was getting no sound. Any suggestions for Denon D7000?
> I have some old 8083 mullards. And Amperex 68k5w's I can swap out for the Gold 408's.


 
  
 I don't know if "any" 8 leg op amp will work, but if you search this thread, you will find that the 4562 has been a popular choice.
  
 I am currently running a MUSES 02 and loving it. And the best tubes I have found are the 6DT6 - RCA and Tung Sol (EF92), and the tall bottle (avoid the short bottle versions) EC900 / 6HA5 / 6HM5 - GE, Sylvania and EI Yugoslovia (EF95).
  
 Cheers,


----------



## henree

gibosi said:


> I don't know if "any" 8 leg op amp will work, but if you search this thread, you will find that the 4562 has been a popular choice.
> 
> I am currently running a MUSES 02 and loving it. And the best tubes I have found are the 6DT6 - RCA and Tung Sol (EF92), and the tall bottle (avoid the short bottle versions) EC900 / 6HA5 / 6HM5 - GE, Sylvania and EI Yugoslovia (EF95).
> 
> Cheers,


 
 NoOoooo I pulled the 4562 out of my Matrix to put into my DoT and the leg bent all the way up. I tried straightening it but it is all warped. I can get it in and music plays. But I am afraid that I am missing info. Should I replace the opamp?
 I just hate to listen to my music and in the back of my mind worry that I may be not getting all the musical info.


----------



## gibosi

henree said:


> NoOoooo I pulled the 4562 out of my Matrix to put into my DoT and the leg bent all the way up. I tried straightening it but it is all warped. I can get it in and music plays. But I am afraid that I am missing info. Should I replace the opamp?
> I just hate to listen to my music and in the back of my mind worry that I may be not getting all the musical info.


 
  
 As long as the leg is making good contact and you are hearing music that isn't obviously distorted, then all is fine.


----------



## henree

gibosi said:


> As long as the leg is making good contact and you are hearing music that isn't obviously distorted, then all is fine.


 
 Tried to straighten the leg a tad and the Little dot will not power up. I guess if one of the 8 legs doesn't make contact. No dice. I will be on Ebay looking for a replacement.
  
 Hooked up the Amperex 6ak5w tubes. and they have a interesting fluid Bass. Its very subwoofer like. Mids a little congested. But I like the sound. Not as well rounded as the gold 408. But harder hitting. These will be my to go tubes for Hiphop and Reggae.


----------



## gibosi

henree said:


> Tried to straighten the leg a tad and the Little dot will not power up. I guess if one of the 8 legs doesn't make contact. No dice. I will be on Ebay looking for a replacement.


 
  
 Since the op amp in the LD 1+ is somewhat recessed and difficult to insert and remove, I use one of these op amp sockets:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6pcs-New-8-Pin-Gold-Plated-Socket-For-OP-AMP-DIP8-/261179539940?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ccf8381e4
  
 It is much easier to fit the op amp into this socket and then insert into the LD.
  
 And the MUSES 02 is bit more expensive than some of the others, but to my ears, it is worth it.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/400418607953?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649


----------



## henree

gibosi said:


> Since the op amp in the LD 1+ is somewhat recessed and difficult to insert and remove, I use one of these op amp sockets:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6pcs-New-8-Pin-Gold-Plated-Socket-For-OP-AMP-DIP8-/261179539940?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ccf8381e4
> 
> ...


 
 Please tell me more about this Muses 02 opamp. I have been so impatient lately. Only left the 8083 in for a day and I am onto the Russian groove tubes. Wow they are so pristine. Maybe not as musical as the Mullard. But very detailed. And they have great balance.


----------



## gibosi

henree said:


> Please tell me more about this Muses 02 opamp. I have been so impatient lately. Only left the 8083 in for a day and I am onto the Russian groove tubes. Wow they are so pristine. Maybe not as musical as the Mullard. But very detailed. And they have great balance.


 
  
 Here are my previous postings regarding the Muses 02::
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/364043/little-dot-i-tube-rolling/1590#post_9970970
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/364043/little-dot-i-tube-rolling/1680#post_10176298


----------



## i luvmusic 2

Anyone here know how to remove the 2 tube rings on top of LD 1+ and the rings for LD MK III driver tube rings.


----------



## JoeDoe

Any LD users who have tried both the Muses02 and a dual to mono 627AP opamp?


----------



## gibosi

joedoe said:


> Any LD users who have tried both the Muses02 and a dual to mono 627AP opamp?


 
  
 Although an iBasso D10, not an LD, you might find this posting of interest:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/432749/the-opamp-thread/4590#post_10164689


----------



## henree

Anyone get scratchiness in the left ear. Specifically on the Mullard  8083. Does a particular tube equate with Left And Right? Or could this be the unit. Can you clean the actually pots the tubes go into? I already deoxited the pins of the 8083's. They looked polished and brand new. The scratchiness comes in at about 30 to 45 minutes of listening.


----------



## gibosi

henree said:


> Anyone get scratchiness in the left ear. Specifically on the Mullard  8083. Does a particular tube equate with Left And Right? Or could this be the unit. Can you clean the actually pots the tubes go into? I already deoxited the pins of the 8083's. They looked polished and brand new. The scratchiness comes in at about 30 to 45 minutes of listening.


 
  
 As you face the amp, left is left and right is right. If you swap tubes, does the scratchiness move to the right ear? Does this happen with other tubes, as well?


----------



## henree

gibosi said:


> As you face the amp, left is left and right is right. If you swap tubes, does the scratchiness move to the right ear? Does this happen with other tubes, as well?


 
 I only notice it with the Mullard's. Once I past 30 minutes the scratchiness starts to get louder and louder. I even have 3 sets of 8083's. Same thing. The left tube or pot makes these sounds.Maybe it is that family and the voltage being a problem.


----------



## gibosi

henree said:


> I only notice it with the Mullard's. Once I past 30 minutes the scratchiness starts to get louder and louder. I even have 3 sets of 8083's. Same thing. The left tube or pot makes these sounds.Maybe it is that family and the voltage being a problem.


 
  
 This is a new one on me. The only time I hear a "scratchy" sound is when the cathode (pin 2) has a poor connection. But if so, you should hear this on all your tubes. 
  
 The 8083 is an EF91 tube.... The only thing I can think of is that perhaps the left EF91/92 jumper is a bit loose. But that is a long shot as that jumper ties pins 5, 6 and 7 together..... Otherwise, I don't have no idea.... sorry....


----------



## henree

gibosi said:


> This is a new one on me. The only time I hear a "scratchy" sound is when the cathode (pin 2) has a poor connection. But if so, you should hear this on all your tubes.
> 
> The 8083 is an EF91 tube.... The only thing I can think of is that perhaps the left EF91/92 jumper is a bit loose. But that is a long shot as that jumper ties pins 5, 6 and 7 together..... Otherwise, I don't have no idea.... sorry....


 
 Thanks,
  
 I think I will purchase another brand in the ef91 family. To see if I notice the same thing. Doubt it though. I did however get the 4562 back working by applying an adaptor. It is very harsh in the treble region. But good vocal detail and decent bass.
 I really want to try that MUSE you mentioned. But the price is so high. Maybe when I get my income taxes done. LOL


----------



## gibosi

henree said:


> I think I will purchase another brand in the ef91 family. To see if I notice the same thing. Doubt it though.done.


 
  
 Before I got double triode fever, this was the best EF91 I heard:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/EF91-CV4014-KB-Z-GEC-NOS-MATCHED-PAIR-/310114507805?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item483443dc1d
  
 But that money, you could get a MUSES 02. lol


----------



## hsubox

The Voshkods are in! Immediately better than the basic EF92 tubes. Gonna listen for a while, then play with opamps.


----------



## henree

hsubox said:


> The Voshkods are in! Immediately better than the basic EF92 tubes. Gonna listen for a while, then play with opamps.


 
  


hsubox said:


> The Voshkods are in! Immediately better than the basic EF92 tubes. Gonna listen for a while, then play with opamps.


 
 I like them alot. They have great energy and detail. Very 3 dimensional sound.


----------



## henree

henree said:


> I only notice it with the Mullard's. Once I past 30 minutes the scratchiness starts to get louder and louder. I even have 3 sets of 8083's. Same thing. The left tube or pot makes these sounds.Maybe it is that family and the voltage being a problem.


 
 Just to update you guys. I have yet to find a solution to the left ear static problem with my amp. It wasn't the tubes something in the circuit has gone bad. So I am giving up on this amp. Too bad because the 8083 tubes coupled with the 4562 op-amp was heaven to me. David hasn't responded to my emails either. Time to move on.


----------



## HPiper

henree said:


> Just to update you guys. I have yet to find a solution to the left ear static problem with my amp. It wasn't the tubes something in the circuit has gone bad. So I am giving up on this amp. Too bad because the 8083 tubes coupled with the 4562 op-amp was heaven to me. David hasn't responded to my emails either. Time to move on.


 

 Funny you should say that about David as there is a new post in (I think) the headphone forum praising their great customer service. I have noticed that about LD in reading various posts, some people seem to get exceptional service and others basically no service at all.


----------



## McMdk

_"6HM5 (GE, EI and Sylvania - avoid the short squat tubes - get the taller tubes"_
  
 Could someone please explain me WHY to avoid the small tubes?. (damage/sound/etc)
  
 Thanks


----------



## gibosi

mcmdk said:


> _"6HM5 (GE, EI and Sylvania - avoid the short squat tubes - get the taller tubes"_
> 
> Could someone please explain me WHY to avoid the small tubes?. (damage/sound/etc)
> 
> Thanks


 
  
 Sound. I found the tall tubes sounded better than the short tubes.


----------



## JoeDoe

Just a few impressions for some Novosibirsk 6J3P-Es I've been giving head time:
  
 Treble: Very smooth. Not aggressive but still lots of quality.
 Mids: Liquid. Nice and thick but still very clean.
 Bass: Full and round. Good texture. Not super deep but still extends well.
  
 Soundstage: Better than Voskhod
 Separation: Excellent. Everything is easily pinpointed.
  
 These tubes have given the Voskhods a run for their money. My pair at least, is quieter than the Voskhod. The Novos aren't as aggressive as the Vosks, but they are extremely quiet and still have plenty in common with their Russian cousin.
  
 For anyone looking to try em, I highly recommend.
  
 PS. For anyone looking to try some Tung Sols or Mullard 8083s, I'm putting mine up FS soon. If you PM me referencing this post, I'll cut you a deal!


----------



## sandstrom

Just received a pair of Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV, straight from the box they sound much better then the 6JI stock tubes.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

You should try 6HM5.


----------



## Solrighal

Hello everyone. I'm sorry to disrupt the flow but I have a mission and I've been sent in this direction. 

I'm currently using a Fiio E18 to drive my AKG Q701's. While I have no problems getting things loud there's an inherent edginess to the sound of the AKG's treble & upper mids regions. 

I'd like to dial this out but I don't want to use EQ to do it. I've always fancied using valve gear and the idea of tube rolling excites me. I'm not rich so I'm thinking this is possibly the place for me. 

What do you guys think? If you suggest I go for it I'll get right back to the start of this thread and begin the work. 

Thanks for listening.


----------



## gibosi

You have it exactly right. Tubes allow you to tailor the sound. Welcome to tube land!


----------



## Solrighal

gibosi said:


> You have it exactly right. Tubes allow you to tailor the sound. Welcome to tube land!




Thank you for the welcome. Yes, there's a certain element of karma about tubes that excites me. I'll go do some research. I have no idea where to buy, what to buy etc. But it looks like fun.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

Told you so....


----------



## Solrighal

i luvmusic 2 said:


> Told you so....




I know my friend. In all honesty I couldn't remember where I'd been told that or who told me. Many thanks though. I am home.


----------



## Solrighal

Man, this is a long thread. Can anyone recommend a retailer of the Little Dot L1+ in the UK?


----------



## hsubox

solrighal said:


> Thank you for the welcome. Yes, there's a certain element of karma about tubes that excites me. I'll go do some research. I have no idea where to buy, what to buy etc. But it looks like fun.


 
  
 Just a heads up, I haven't yet found tubes for the 1+ that play well with the Q701. The basic EF91 that I got mine with sounded pretty terrible (way too shrill and peaky). The Voshkods that work so well with my Grados are just fair with the AKGs.
  
 I'm still on the hunt, but until then, I much prefer the Fiio E09K with these headphones.


----------



## Solrighal

hsubox said:


> Just a heads up, I haven't yet found tubes for the 1+ that play well with the Q701. The basic EF91 that I got mine with sounded pretty terrible (way too shrill and peaky). The Voshkods that work so well with my Grados are just fair with the AKGs.
> 
> I'm still on the hunt, but until then, I much prefer the Fiio E09K with these headphones.




Oh, that's a worry. I kinda thought the warmth inherent in *some* valves would create a nice synergy with the sometimes clinical sounding AKG's. Do you know if this is a problem specific to this particular valve amp & the valves available for it or a more general problem with valve amplification and the AKG's?

Either way, I appreciate the heads-up.


----------



## gibosi

hsubox said:


> Just a heads up, I haven't yet found tubes for the 1+ that play well with the Q701. The basic EF91 that I got mine with sounded pretty terrible (way too shrill and peaky). The Voshkods that work so well with my Grados are just fair with the AKGs.
> 
> I'm still on the hunt, but until then, I much prefer the Fiio E09K with these headphones.


 
  
 Of the stock tubes, I recall the EF92 as being quite warm and laid back so they might be worth a try....
  


solrighal said:


> Man, this is a long thread. Can anyone recommend a retailer of the Little Dot L1+ in the UK?


 
  
 To my knowledge, if you want to purchase new, it is best to purchase directly from the manufacturer, as otherwise, you will not have the manufacturer's warranty.
  
 http://www.littledot.net/forum/index.php


----------



## i luvmusic 2

IMO Some tubes need a longer burn-in time than others so before you judge a tube let it  run for atleast 24 hrs .You can try 6HM5 Yugoslavia they are $5 per tube  you can't go wrong with that price.My favourite tube for my 1+(for Q@#!) is the Marconi 6SN7 GTB, 6HM5 Yugo and Tung-Sol 6CS6/EH90 just to name a few.


----------



## Solrighal

gibosi said:


> Of the stock tubes, I recall the EF92 as being quite warm and laid back so they might be worth a try....
> 
> 
> To my knowledge, if you want to purchase new, it is best to purchase directly from the manufacturer, as otherwise, you will not have the manufacturer's warranty.
> ...




Thanks for the valve recommendation. I've been researching all morning and it does seem as though direct from China is the preferable option. I'm slightly worried as to import duty to the UK, I know Wastemonster screws us for everything else so buying a 'boutique' product from China is most likely going to result in a bill. Still, not much more of that to put up with for us lucky Scots 




i luvmusic 2 said:


> IMO Some tubes need a longer burn-in time than others so before you judge a tube let it  run for atleast 24 hrs .You can try 6HM5 Yugoslavia they are $5 per tube  you can't go wrong with that price.My favourite tube for my 1+(for Q@#!) is the Marconi 6SN7 GTB, 6HM5 Yugo and Tung-Sol 6CS6/EH90 just to name a few.




Aye, I imagine with tubes, more than anything, burn-in will definitely be an issue. Thanks for the heads-up regarding possible valves suitable for the Q's.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

Just to remind you  my Q is Modded so it will sound different from  stock.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

It's Spring time cleaning my Desk is cluttered with equipment  and wires/cable anyone thought or have done transfering the LD 1 into another case.My idea is to put the LD in a bigger case with my External Power Supply.Anyone gutted a LD before?


----------



## gibosi

i luvmusic 2 said:


> It's Spring time cleaning my Desk is cluttered with equipment  and wires/cable anyone thought or have done transfering the LD 1 into another case.My idea is to put the LD in a bigger case with my External Power Supply.Anyone gutted a LD before?


 
  
 If anyone has done this, they haven't posted anything here, so I suspect that you are on your own. It shouldn't be all that hard, I would think, especially if you know what you are doing. However, that leaves me out, because when it comes to electronics, I know just enough to get into trouble, but not enough to get out of trouble! lol


----------



## MunkyOne

i luvmusic 2 said:


> It's Spring time cleaning my Desk is cluttered with equipment  and wires/cable anyone thought or have done transfering the LD 1 into another case.My idea is to put the LD in a bigger case with my External Power Supply.Anyone gutted a LD before?


 
  
 I am playing with the idea of a larger case, as I find the existing one too cramped for circuit modding.  After adding a few more components and upgrading others, it's very tight.  So I am considering either a metal chassis, with wood case, or a fully metal case, similart to, but larger then the original.  I also find the front panel a little cramped, with the HP socket so close to the volume knob.  So I may liberate the HP socket and power LED from the PCB, to facilitate using a larger front panel.
  
 When you said "to put the LD in a bigger case with my External Power Supply", did you mean that you intend using the amp with a different PSU?  Or do you mean to accommodate both the LD1+ and another power supply in a single case to reduce desk clutter?


----------



## kvtaco17

gibosi said:


> If anyone has done this, they haven't posted anything here, so I suspect that you are on your own. It shouldn't be all that hard, I would think, especially if you know what you are doing. However, that leaves me out, because when it comes to electronics, I know just enough to get into trouble, but not enough to get out of trouble! lol


 
 I mounted a transformer case to the front of my LD1+ to act as a housing for my tube adaptor AND as a place to mount my external DC circuit.


----------



## kvtaco17

munkyone said:


> I am playing with the idea of a larger case, as I find the existing one too cramped for circuit modding.  After adding a few more components and upgrading others, it's very tight.  So I am considering either a metal chassis, with wood case, or a fully metal case, similart to, but larger then the original.  I also find the front panel a little cramped, with the HP socket so close to the volume knob.  So I may liberate the HP socket and power LED from the PCB, to facilitate using a larger front panel.
> 
> When you said "to put the LD in a bigger case with my External Power Supply", did you mean that you intend using the amp with a different PSU?  Or do you mean to accommodate both the LD1+ and another power supply in a single case to reduce desk clutter?


 
 He means a external PSU for the LD because in our modding a lot of us needed more current or voltage to run more exotic tubes.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

munkyone said:


> I am playing with the idea of a larger case, as I find the existing one too cramped for circuit modding.  After adding a few more components and upgrading others, it's very tight.  So I am considering either a metal chassis, with wood case, or a fully metal case, similart to, but larger then the original.  I also find the front panel a little cramped, with the HP socket so close to the volume knob.  So I may liberate the HP socket and power LED from the PCB, to facilitate using a larger front panel.
> 
> When you said "to put the LD in a bigger case with my External Power Supply", did you mean that you intend using the amp with a different PSU?  Or do you mean to accommodate both the LD1+ and another power supply in a single case to reduce desk clutter?


 
 Yes i would like to put them together in one case to reduce clutter.The external PS is for the Tube(6SN7 and 12SN7) heaters running my LD 1 and MK III.
 I just opened the LD 1 and found out that those wires from the  transformer to PCB are short i think the easy way to do it is Mark and just cut them then resolder with longer wires if needed.it wont be that easy to do this so i have to think it over.

 This picture is actually the cleanest if you see it now wires and some other crap on my desk.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

gibosi said:


> If anyone has done this, they haven't posted anything here, so I suspect that you are on your own. It shouldn't be all that hard, I would think, especially if you know what you are doing. However, that leaves me out, because when it comes to electronics, I know just enough to get into trouble, but not enough to get out of trouble! lol


 
 No worries G i'am just like you but i can tell you this what ever i know in this LD stuff i learn it from you and the other guys.I can't Thank you enough for taking your time giving your thoughts to all us.


----------



## MunkyOne

i luvmusic 2 said:


> Yes i would like to put them together in one case to reduce clutter.The external PS is for the Tube(6SN7 and 12SN7) heaters running my LD 1 and MK III.
> I just opened the LD 1 and found out that those wires from the  transformer to PCB are short i think the easy way to do it is Mark and just cut them then resolder with longer wires if needed.it wont be that easy to do this so i have to think it over.
> 
> This picture is actually the cleanest if you see it now wires and some other crap on my desk.


 
 I see.  That's quite a full desk you have there 
  
 Yes, the LD1 transformer wires are very short, but if all you are doing is relocating the transformer, it should be fairly easy to do.  As you say, just mark the wires before you cut them.  If you think that you might make further changes later, it may be an idea to make a detatchable cable for the transformer.   The LD1+ is quite tight inside, but it is easy to take apart and reassemble.
  
 Have you any ideas about the case you will use?   I still can't decide between wood/metal or just metal.  I am looking at retro hi-fi for inspiration


----------



## Solrighal

i luvmusic 2 said:


> Just to remind you  my Q is Modded so it will sound different from  stock.




In what way have you modded your Q's? I've done the bass mod myself & enjoy it (no idea why it isn't done as stock to be honest). Are there other mods? Have you designed something unique?


----------



## gibosi

Some of us have external sockets for double triodes and we are using an auxiliary power supply for the heaters, as these tubes draw more current than we believe the LD can safely provide, or we want to provide heater voltages in excess of 6.3 volts. This also allows us to use DC current to power the heaters, which tends to be quieter than AC current.
  
 And for sure it would be nice to wrap all this stuff into one nice-looking enclosure....


----------



## i luvmusic 2

munkyone said:


> I see.  That's quite a full desk you have there
> 
> Yes, the LD1 transformer wires are very short, but if all you are doing is relocating the transformer, it should be fairly easy to do.  As you say, just mark the wires before you cut them.  If you think that you might make further changes later, it may be an idea to make a detatchable cable for the transformer.   The LD1+ is quite tight inside, but it is easy to take apart and reassemble.
> 
> Have you any ideas about the case you will use?   I still can't decide between wood/metal or just metal.  I am looking at retro hi-fi for inspiration


 
  
 Aluminum(scrap) and wood or something like this Recycled Electronic case with scrap aluminum for face plate.


solrighal said:


> In what way have you modded your Q's? I've done the bass mod myself & enjoy it (no idea why it isn't done as stock to be honest). Are there other mods? Have you designed something unique?


 
 Just the Bass port.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

The only thing that is holding me back from transfering the LD 1 into a bigger case is the Volume pot and the headphone jack.I'am thinking of removing them from the PCB but i'am a bit nervous doing that i might screw it up.It sure would be nice to move everything i have in one case it will look cleaner but it's something that i really need to think about before i start screwing something up.making the case IMO is the easy part but unsoldering the Pot/jack i don't know.


----------



## kvtaco17

gibosi,
  
 just an FYI the lyr plus 6SN7 or 6CG7 is a nasty thing... Ive tried a few pairs of both that I know sound good...Sylvania 6SN7(button bottom, black and brown) RCA 6SN7 (shortie blacked out) RCA and Raytheon 6CG7... and they all sounded bloated loose and painfully bright... distorted and odd sounding... This experiment is now officially a failure...


----------



## gibosi

Based on previous postings in the Lyr thread, I am not surprised, but it is too bad....


----------



## kvtaco17

I am sad too...


----------



## MunkyOne

The volume pot and HP jack socket are straightforward to remove, assuming some experience of soldering.  I use a cheap de-solder tool, which sucks up solder as it is melted by the soldering iron.  Not much can go wrong, as long as you make a careful note of the required new cable connections, required for mounting the pot and jack on the front panel rather than the PCB.
  
 I plan to do the same, once I have decided on a suitable case.  Currently considering a retro look, perhaps with wood sides, ala 1970's.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

I changed my mind recasing my Amps instead i will make a new adapter for the tubes it will be on a aluminum plate and hide all the wires/cable inside that adapter case so atleast it will look a little tidy and last night i soldered the wires for the adapter in the back of tube sockets.The case for the tube adapter it will be made out of aluminum plate on top, wood on both sides, aluminum on the front  and a small aluminum plate in the back to hold some connectors.
 No more Vector adapters.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

munkyone said:


> The volume pot and HP jack socket are straightforward to remove, assuming some experience of soldering.  I use a cheap de-solder tool, which sucks up solder as it is melted by the soldering iron.  Not much can go wrong, as long as you make a careful note of the required new cable connections, required for mounting the pot and jack on the front panel rather than the PCB.
> 
> I plan to do the same, once I have decided on a suitable case.  Currently considering a retro look, perhaps with wood sides, ala 1970's.


 
 I'm worried about overheating the PCB and melt those contacts/trace.


----------



## MunkyOne

i luvmusic 2 said:


> I'm worried about overheating the PCB and melt those contacts/trace.


 
 When soldering electronics, I use a 14w soldering iron, which minimises the risk of overheating the components.  On my LD1+ PCB (v3.0), the HP jack and volume pot soldered connections are far enough away from the most heat-sensitive components for a 14w soldering iron to be quite safe.  If I am in any doubt, I use a pair of pliers as a heat sink to protect the nearest component along the track I am soldering on.  I have recently added a few extra components to the underside of my LD1+ PCB, without any problems.  I just observe a rule of minimum contact with the soldering iron.
  
 I do recommend using a low-wattage soldering iron, rather than a general purpose one, for all electronic circuit soldering.


----------



## MunkyOne

This is a good idea.  Post a pic when your'e done


----------



## i luvmusic 2

I think it's going to be a problem if you used a wooden type of box for the LD 1 IMO the Chassis for the LD 1 is part of the Heat sink.So i think i'm going to use a 1000 LBS. Aluminum Block and carve the LD inside it.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

These might be the future chassis for my LD 1.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

Transfered LD 1 inside these Chassis.

 The chassis is made out of recycled aluminum and wood the volume knob is recycled from old amp ,I can't decide if i need to paint it or just polish/sand the aluminum.


----------



## JoeDoe

Some LD Yugo love for everyone!


----------



## i luvmusic 2

I've changed the volume knob for LD 1 with a bigger knob and now it's very easy to adjust the volume where i want it or should i say  the POT is more accurate.


----------



## boombobby289

May I know if there is any different among these OpAmps:  

 MC33078 (stock OpAmp in Little Dot 1+)
 MC33078P
 MC33078N
  
 Because when searching on eBay, I only can find either MC33078P or MC33078N.


----------



## Solrighal

I was here a couple of months back looking to pair this amp with my Q701. The general consensus was that they didn't pair well. I left.

Now I'm back again and I've added the HD 650 to my armoury. How does the amp pair with the HD 650? If it can be made to work what valves would I need?

Thanks.


----------



## gibosi

i luvmusic 2 said:


> I've changed the volume knob for LD 1 with a bigger knob and now it's very easy to adjust the volume where i want it or should i say  the POT is more accurate.


 
  
 It would be great to see a picture, and if you could tell us the size and where we could buy one like it (as I think you simply recycled a knob from another amp?) that would be even better!


----------



## i luvmusic 2

gibosi said:


> It would be great to see a picture, and if you could tell us the size and where we could buy one like it (as I think you simply recycled a knob from another amp?) that would be even better!


 
 Hi gibosi,
     The knob was just recycled/pulled out from another amp and it is 48mm in diamiter and it's for D type Pot. shaft i simply break off the tab from the knob and push it in the LD Pot shaft just keep on pushing it in slowly until it seat on the LD shaft take your time doing this or you can used a drill and a drill bit to inlarge the shaft hole from the knob.IMO it is very easy to find the point where you want the volume level with this knob.Back then with the stock knob one slight turn and it's already loud with the big knob i need to turn the knob a bit further up to get the volume.


----------



## gibosi

i luvmusic 2 said:


> Hi gibosi,
> The knob was just recycled/pulled out from another amp and it is 48mm in diamiter and it's for D type Pot. shaft i simply break off the tab from the knob and push it in the LD Pot shaft just keep on pushing it in slowly until it seat on the LD shaft take your time doing this or you can used a drill and a drill bit to inlarge the shaft hole from the knob.IMO it is very easy to find the point where you want the volume level with this knob.Back then with the stock knob one slight turn and it's already loud with the big knob i need to turn the knob a bit further up to get the volume.


 
  
 It looks great! However, I had forgotten that you have stuffed your LD into a larger case. I don't think we can use a replacement knob this big. The front panel of the LD 1+ is only about 40mm tall, so I would have to put the amp up on stilts to use 48mm. lol


----------



## i luvmusic 2

gibosi said:


> It looks great! However, I had forgotten that you have stuffed your LD into a larger case. I don't think we can use a replacement knob this big. The front panel of the LD 1+ is only about 40mm tall, so I would have to put the amp up on stilts to use 48mm. lol


 
 Another thing to consider is your LD 1 pot shaft it could be too tight that is why it's a bit hard to control the volume i noticed this with my amp before i transplanted it to the bigger chassis.try to loosen the shaft nut and see if it changes.


----------



## ryencoke

My first tube amp is on the way. The LD I+ seems great from all that I've read about it. The real test will be to listen to it, but that's going to take a few weeks before it arrives. Hopefully it plays nice with the low impedance NAD HP50 and a HiFimeDIY Sabre USB DAC.
 And I'm already preparing for opamp and tube rolling! For opamps: LT1364 and MUSES02 are ordered. 
 For tubes, so far: GE 6HM5. Also thinking about Mullard M8161 or Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV, but so expensive.


----------



## gibosi

While the Mullard is often expensive, the Voskhods are not:
  
 I bought two pair from this vendor:
  
 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130436695928&ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:US:3160
  
 $3 / pair, plus $12 shipping to the US. Incidentally, buying "matched" driver tubes for any of the LD's would be a huge waste of money.
  
 Note: 6ZH1P-EV = 6J1P-EV. And what is important is the "EV" which signifies the highest quality Russian tubes.


----------



## ryencoke

gibosi said:


> While the Mullard is often expensive, the Voskhods are not:
> 
> I bought two pair from this vendor:
> 
> ...


 
 In the hours spent reading the LD tube rolling threads I missed this 
 Thanks a lot!


----------



## boombobby289

sling5s said:


> Went through briefly the thread.  I have Grado RS1.  Used to have MAD EAR but considering Little Dot 1+ for the RS1.
> It seems the recommended opamps are: op2107 and LT1364cn8
> Recommend Tubes: Mullard M8161 and Mullard ef91
> 
> ...


 
 What is the sound characteristic of  OpAmp  LT1364CN8?


----------



## sling5s

boombobby289 said:


> What is the sound characteristic of  OpAmp  LT1364CN8?


 
 I don't remember anymore but I did find my answers on Little Dot website.  The site has an Question and Answer section that covers general questions about tube rolling and opamps.


----------



## ryencoke

boombobby289 said:


> What is the sound characteristic of  OpAmp  LT1364CN8?


 
  
 There are several reviews of the LT1364 in this thread. I can't post links (I'm too new still) but look at the top of page 15 of this thread. And also you can use "search this thread" links at top and bottom of this page to find more.


----------



## ryencoke

Received my LD I+ today. It came so fast it beat all the tubes/op amps I ordered. So far 2.5 hours on the stock tubes and pretty impressed with it. Next I'll be trying GE 6DT6A which I found at a local store.
 Great dealing with David and incredibly fast getting it, less than 5 business days!


----------



## gibosi

ryencoke said:


> Received my LD I+ today. It came so fast it beat all the tubes/op amps I ordered. So far 2.5 hours on the stock tubes and pretty impressed with it. Next I'll be trying GE 6DT6A which I found at a local store.
> Great dealing with David and incredibly fast getting it, less than 5 business days!


 
  
 Congratulations on becoming a member of the Little Dot club! 
  
 I thought the RCA and Tung-Sol 6DT6A sounded better than the GE's, but I never compared them to the stock tubes and would be interested to hear your impressions.
  
 Cheers


----------



## kvtaco17

gibosi said:


> Congratulations on becoming a member of the Little Dot club!
> 
> I thought the RCA and Tung-Sol 6DT6A sounded better than the GE's, but I never compared them to the stock tubes and would be interested to hear your impressions.
> 
> Cheers


 
 Spot on with the GE's being behind the RCA's and Tung Sol's... BUT lets not forget the Sylvania's lol


----------



## boombobby289

Has anyone rolled Op Amp AD8397?
AD8397 is used as Op Amp in Hifiman HM-901.


----------



## gibosi

boombobby289 said:


> Has anyone rolled Op Amp AD8397?
> AD8397 is used as Op Amp in Hifiman HM-901.


 
  
 Searching back through this thread, I can't find any mention of this op amp, so you just might be the first.
  
 I think you should try it and let us know!


----------



## boombobby289

Has anyone tried to mix the different brand/maker but same family tubes ?
  
 For example, is it ok to mix one WE 408A tube and one GE 408A tube in LDI+?


----------



## gibosi

boombobby289 said:


> Has anyone tried to mix the different brand/maker but same family tubes ?
> 
> For example, is it ok to mix one WE 408A tube and one GE 408A tube in LDI+?


 
  
 It is perfectly safe to do this. However, the WE and GE sound different. And so the tonality of the R and L channels will sound more different than normal.... But again, it is perfectly safe.


----------



## boombobby289

gibosi said:


> It is perfectly safe to do this. However, the WE and GE sound different. And so the tonality of the R and L channels will sound more different than normal.... But again, it is perfectly safe.



What about if I were mixed one Sylvania 408A and one Philips 408A? Some headfiers claimed both are equivalent.
Any comment?


----------



## gibosi

boombobby289 said:


> What about if I were mixed one Sylvania 408A and one Philips 408A? Some headfiers claimed both are equivalent.
> Any comment?


 
 Depends on the year they were manufactured. In the early 1980's Sylvania sold it's vacuum tube business to Philips. So if both were manufactured in the early 1980's, the Sylvania just before the sale and the Philips just after, then they are likely very similar. But a Sylvania manufactured in the 1960's is likely very different compared to a Philips manufactured in the 1980's. And of course this would also be true for GE tubes, or any other brand, manufactured 20 years apart.


----------



## ryencoke

gibosi said:


> Congratulations on becoming a member of the Little Dot club!
> 
> I thought the RCA and Tung-Sol 6DT6A sounded better than the GE's, but I never compared them to the stock tubes and would be interested to hear your impressions.
> 
> Cheers


 
 Thanks gibosi!
 At the local store that was the only tubes I could find, so didn't have much of a choice unfortunately. As for comparing the GE 6DT6A to stock tubes, it takes me a little too long to switch the jumpers so I can't do a very good A/B test on them. Also found Westinghouse 6DT6A so I will compare them to the GE 6DT6A since that's just a quick tube swap. 
  
 Comparing GE 6HM5 to stock 6JI (on stock opamp):
  GE 6HM5 - Wide soundstage. Nothing harsh about them, very balanced. Only issue, I had 2 bad tubes with high frequencies coming in and out (even after 15hr burn in on them each). Luckily I bought 4 and other 2 were ok!
 6JI - Harsh treble

  
 Headphones used: NAD HP50
 DAC: HiFimeDIY Sabre U2 Async
  
 Also still waiting on the MUSES02 opamp and a few more tubes. Once that comes in I'll take some time to do some more comparisons.


----------



## gibosi

ryencoke said:


> At the local store that was the only tubes I could find, so didn't have much of a choice unfortunately. As for comparing the GE 6DT6A to stock tubes, it takes me a little too long to switch the jumpers so I can't do a very good A/B test on them. Also found Westinghouse 6DT6A so I will compare them to the GE 6DT6A since that's just a quick tube swap.


 
  
 I am not sure, but I don't think Westinghouse made 6DT6's. So I believe that the Westinghouse tubes were manufactured elsewhere and Westinghouse simply painted their name on them. You might want to take a close look. If they have the same construction as your GE's, then probably GE made them. If they look different, then perhaps RCA or another company made them.


----------



## ryencoke

gibosi said:


> I am not sure, but I don't think Westinghouse made 6DT6's. So I believe that the Westinghouse tubes were manufactured elsewhere and Westinghouse simply painted their name on them. You might want to take a close look. If they have the same construction as your GE's, then probably GE made them. If they look different, then perhaps RCA or another company made them.


 
 Good question.
  
 #1 GE 6HM5 and #2 Westinghouse 6DT6A have identical white letters with the tube model and dots below (hard to see in pic).
 #3 and #4 are both marked GE 6DT6A but #3 made in Japan, #4 made in Canada. None of the 6DT6A look very similar in construction..
  
 http://i.imgur.com/vCUAZFc.jpg
  
 #1 - Left: GE 6HM5
 #2 - Middle: Westinghouse 6DT6A
 #3 - Right: GE 6DT6A
 #4 - Bottom: GE 6DT6A


----------



## gibosi

ryencoke said:


> Good question.
> 
> #1 GE 6HM5 and #2 Westinghouse 6DT6A have identical white letters with the tube model and dots below (hard to see in pic).
> #3 and #4 are both marked GE 6DT6A but #3 made in Japan, #4 made in Canada. None of the 6DT6A look very similar in construction..
> ...


 
  
 The dots on the Westinghouse is a positive indicator that this tube was manufactured by GE. The made-in-Japan GE was certainly not made by GE. And I suspect that #4 was not manufactured by GE either. My GE has ribbed plates, like your Westinghouse. The smooth plates on #4 suggest RCA.


----------



## ryencoke

gibosi said:


> The dots on the Westinghouse is a positive indicator that this tube was manufactured by GE. The made-in-Japan GE was certainly not made by GE. And I suspect that #4 was not manufactured by GE either. My GE has ribbed plates, like your Westinghouse. The smooth plates on #4 suggest RCA.


 
 Thanks for the info!


----------



## odinsride

Hi, I am having a problem with my new Little Dot I+ and WE 408A tubes.  The amp does not seem to work when I put the jumpers on the 408A side as described in the instructions.  I tried the 408A tubes with the jumper set to 6JI position just to see if the tubes work, and they seem to work okay, but when I put the jumper to the 408A position, nothing happens.  The tubes don't even warm up.  Wondering if it's a defect in my unit or if I'm doing something wrong.  I've noticed on youtube videos that other Little Dot I+ have an actual switch there, but mine simply has a jumper setting instead.
  
 I did the following per the instructions:
  
 Original jumper position for K1/K2:
  
 408A   x [ x x ]   6JI
  
  
 New jumper position for 408A tubes:
  
  
 408A   [ x x ] x   6JI
  
  
 Hope my little diagram makes sense, the square brackets are the jumper.  I can take pictures if it would help as well.
  
 Thanks!
  
  
 EDIT:  Here are some pics of what I have if it helps - https://www.dropbox.com/sc/jsw77ffcgbay1ts/AAD2nJxScXU0-V3NCMyZRTIHa#/


----------



## i luvmusic 2

odinsride said:


> Hi, I am having a problem with my new Little Dot I+ and WE 408A tubes.  The amp does not seem to work when I put the jumpers on the 408A side as described in the instructions.  I tried the 408A tubes with the jumper set to 6JI position just to see if the tubes work, and they seem to work okay, but when I put the jumper to the 408A position, nothing happens.  The tubes don't even warm up.  Wondering if it's a defect in my unit or if I'm doing something wrong.  I've noticed on youtube videos that other Little Dot I+ have an actual switch there, but mine simply has a jumper setting instead.
> 
> I did the following per the instructions:
> 
> ...


 
 Did you removed the jumper from both J1 and J2?


----------



## odinsride

i luvmusic 2 said:


> Did you removed the jumper from both J1 and J2?


 
  
 J1 and J2 jumpers were already removed from the factory.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

How i wish i can help you But my LD 1+ was butchered see....


----------



## i luvmusic 2

I was looking at the manual and it looks like it's just a matter of removing J1 and J2 then switch to 408.I never have a 408 tube so i never tried this setup.


----------



## odinsride

i luvmusic 2 said:


> I was looking at the manual and it looks like it's just a matter of removing J1 and J2 then switch to 408.I never have a 408 tube so i never tried this setup.


 
  
 Yeah I did exactly as the manual says but just seems like when switched to the 408A side I just get no sound.  The unit powers on but that's it.  I'll post on the littledot forums to see if they can maybe replace my unit or something.  Btw, your LD looks absolutely insane lol, I have no idea what I'm even looking at (brand new to this stuff)


----------



## gibosi

odinsride said:


> Original jumper position for K1/K2:
> 
> 408A   x [ x x ]   6JI
> 
> ...


 
  
 It does seem that something is wrong with your amp. The only thing this jumper does is switch the heaters between 6.3 volts and 20 volts. The fact that the tubes don't even light up in the 408A position indicates that the heaters are not connected to a voltage source. Other than rechecking your connections, it might be best to contact David ( little.tube @ gmail.com ) to see if he can help.
  
 Good luck!


----------



## odinsride

gibosi said:


> It does seem that something is wrong with your amp. The only thing this jumper does is switch the heaters between 6.3 volts and 20 volts. The fact that the tubes don't even light up in the 408A position indicates that the heaters are not connected to a voltage source. Other than rechecking your connections, it might be best to contact David ( little.tube @ gmail.com ) to see if he can help.
> 
> Good luck!


 
  
 I emailed David and unforunately he is not able to help since I did not purchase the LD I+ through an authorized vendor.  I ordered a cheap multimeter to do some of my own troubleshooting with my limited knowledge of electronics.  I'm not sure what I'll be able to do, but at least I can still use the LD I+ with stock 6JI tubes.  Bummer that I can't get the 408A's up and running.
  
 Edit: Another thing I wanted to mention - as I said before the 408A tubes work (and sound great!) when the jumper is in the 6JI position.  Is it okay to keep using them like that? I only tried it out for a minute to see that they work, but if it's okay to use them with the jumper in the 6JI position I'd be happy with that.


----------



## gibosi

odinsride said:


> I emailed David and unforunately he is not able to help since I did not purchase the LD I+ through an authorized vendor.  I ordered a cheap multimeter to do some of my own troubleshooting with my limited knowledge of electronics.  I'm not sure what I'll be able to do, but at least I can still use the LD I+ with stock 6JI tubes.  Bummer that I can't get the 408A's up and running.


 
  
 Since your amp is brand new, I suggest that you contact the vendor and ask that your amp be replaced.....
  
 In the meantime, a simple thing to try is swap out the two computer jumpers for a another pair. It is unlikely that they are defective, but it is certainly worth a try.
  
 And once you have a multimeter, if you are very careful, you can try to measure the heater voltage at the socket and at K1/K2.
  
 Good luck!


----------



## odinsride

Ok so I got my multimeter.  The reading between heater pins 4 and 5 when the jumper is set on the 6JI side is ~7.2v, which I'm not sure if that's correct or not since you stated they should be 6.3v in that position.  Now the fun part comes - I switched the jumpers over to the 408A side, this time with the bottom cover of the amp removed and facing up, and as soon as I turn it on I see smoke.  When I take a closer look with a flash light, I see that pin 5 of the right heater has been over-soldered, and the solder is connecting with the leftmost (408A side) K1 jumper pin.  So yeah, I will definitely be sending this back for a refund and will order my replacement directly from LD so I get warranty coverage.  Thanks for the help guys...I'm off to a rough start with audiophile equipment so far, but I won't give up


----------



## gibosi

odinsride said:


> Ok so I got my multimeter.  The reading between heater pins 4 and 5 when the jumper is set on the 6JI side is ~7.2v, which I'm not sure if that's correct or not since you stated they should be 6.3v in that position.  Now the fun part comes - I switched the jumpers over to the 408A side, this time with the bottom cover of the amp removed and facing up, and as soon as I turn it on I see smoke.  When I take a closer look with a flash light, I see that pin 5 of the right heater has been over-soldered, and the solder is connecting with the leftmost (408A side) K1 jumper pin.  So yeah, I will definitely be sending this back for a refund and will order my replacement directly from LD so I get warranty coverage.  Thanks for the help guys...I'm off to a rough start with audiophile equipment so far, but I won't give up


 
  
 Congratulations on solving the problem! It's a shame that your amp is defective, but it is very fortunate that you decided to roll 408A tubes now, and not a year from now, so you are able to make a strong case for a refund.
  
 7.2v is a little high, but that is not surprising. The LD heater voltage is unregulated, so if the AC voltage coming out of the wall is a bit high (not at all uncommon) the heater voltage will also be high. Plus, with no tube plugged in, there is no load on the heater circuit. Typically, with a tube plugged in, the reading at the pins will be a bit lower. Anyway, nothing to worry about.
  
 And IMHO, your decision to purchase your next amp directly from LD is a good one. They have one of the best warranties in the business.


----------



## plus9paradox

Just got a pair of Tektronik GE 6AU6 8425 and man are they amazing without even burning in yet! Will post more details after I am able to listen for a while. I soldered pins 2 and 7 together inside the amp  I think its a lot more ideal than the wire jumper method.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

plus9paradox said:


> Just got a pair of Tektronik GE 6AU6 8425 and man are they amazing without even burning in yet! Will post more details after I am able to listen for a while. I soldered pins 2 and 7 together inside the amp  I think its a lot more ideal than the wire jumper method.


 
 You should try Yugoslavia 6HM5.


----------



## plus9paradox

Are they comparable in sound? I am thinking about grabbing a set of the Tung Sol 6AU6 as well and possible another pair of these tektronix to hold onto just in case.


----------



## kvtaco17

plus9paradox said:


> Are they comparable in sound? I am thinking about grabbing a set of the Tung Sol 6AU6 as well and possible another pair of these tektronix to hold onto just in case.


 
 Nope, completely different beasts!


----------



## gibosi

Well, everyone's ears and gear are different, but I liked the 6HM5 better than the GE 8425.
  
 For what it's worth, I liked the Tung Sol 6485/6AH6 better than the GE 8425, so you might want to try a pair. The 6485 requires the same 2-7 mod as the 8425.
  
 But eventually, you really should try a pair of 6HM5. And it is EF95 compatible, so no mod required.


----------



## plus9paradox

Thanks for the awesome advice guys looks like ill be spending a lil more money on tubes  im trying to come up with some sort of jumper for the 2 to 7 so you do not have to risk damaging sockets or pins


----------



## plus9paradox

Has anyone upgraded any of the capacitors on the LD I+? And if so what results if any


----------



## gibosi

plus9paradox said:


> Has anyone upgraded any of the capacitors on the LD I+? And if so what results if any


 
  
 Surely someone has, but I don't believe they have posted anything here on Head-fi. There are some folks over in AudioKarma who have attempted various mods at the circuit board level. For example:
  
 http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=259926
  
 http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=274126
  
 By the way, have you swapped out your stock op amp yet?


----------



## plus9paradox

gibosi said:


> Surely someone has, but I don't believe they have posted anything here on Head-fi. There are some folks over in AudioKarma who have attempted various mods at the circuit board level. For example:
> 
> http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=259926
> 
> ...


 
 Yes I have swapped it to an OPA2107. I tried LM4562 as well but was not happy with the sound. Here are some pics for everyone.

 Tektronix GS 8425A/6AU6 Installed

 Soldered Pin 2 to Pin 7 with jumper wire (yellow)
  
 I think I am going to get a couple SOIC OPA627 and see how those sound before getting too serious. I am having a hard time identifying the construction of the small yellow box caps. I am assuming the are polyester film capacitors but they have no real branding or identification.


----------



## gibosi

plus9paradox said:


> Yes I have swapped it to an OPA2107. I tried LM4562 as well but was not happy with the sound. Here are some pics for everyone.
> 
> I think I am going to get a couple SOIC OPA627 and see how those sound before getting too serious


 
  
 I am currently running a MUSES 02 op amp and am very happy with the sound. Compared to the other op amps I have tried, the stock MC33078, an OPA2107, an LME 49990 and the MUSES 01, the MUSES 02 is the best yet. However, it is not cheap....


----------



## plus9paradox

gibosi said:


> I am currently running a MUSES 02 op amp and am very happy with the sound. Compared to the other op amps I have tried, the stock MC33078, an OPA2107, an LME 49990 and the MUSES 01, the MUSES 02 is the best yet. However, it is not cheap....


 
 I did a quick google search and they seem to be reasonably priced but i wonder if for the little extra cash a discrete opamp such as the burson or dexa discrete models would be worth the slight bump in price. How much did you pay for your muse 02 and what kind of qualities would you attribute to it?


----------



## gibosi

plus9paradox said:


> I did a quick google search and they seem to be reasonably priced but i wonder if for the little extra cash a discrete opamp such as the burson or dexa discrete models would be worth the slight bump in price. How much did you pay for your muse 02 and what kind of qualities would you attribute to it?


 
  
 I have no experience with any of the discrete models, so can't comment....
  
 Here are my previous postings regarding the Muses 02::
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/364043/little-dot-i-tube-rolling/1590#post_9970970
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/364043/little-dot-i-tube-rolling/1680#post_10176298


----------



## plus9paradox

gibosi said:


> I have no experience with any of the discrete models, so can't comment....
> 
> Here are my previous postings regarding the Muses 02::
> 
> ...


 
 Hmm looks like I'll be getting one of these price is not to bad at all compared to ~$85 for a cheap discrete model. Would you say the Muses 01 is almost to neutral given my choice in tubes (GE 8425A)? I really enjoy a warm, detailed sound.


----------



## gibosi

plus9paradox said:


> Hmm looks like I'll be getting one of these price is not to bad at all compared to ~$85 for a cheap discrete model. Would you say the Muses 01 is almost to neutral given my choice in tubes (GE 8425A)? I really enjoy a warm, detailed sound.


 
  
 Of course, everyone's ears are different. But if you like a "warm" detailed sound, then I suspect you would find both the MUSES 01 and the LME 49990 too cool. As you like the OPA 2107, then you will likely find the MUSES 02 to be similar, but in my opinion, much improved.
  
 Cheers


----------



## plus9paradox

gibosi said:


> Of course, everyone's ears are different. But if you like a "warm" detailed sound, then I suspect you would find both the MUSES 01 and the LME 49990 too cool. As you like the OPA 2107, then you will likely find the MUSES 02 to be similar, but in my opinion, much improved.
> 
> Cheers


 
 Sounds like the MUSES02 is what I will be ordering. Just need to find a good deal on price now. Thanks for all your help with everything.


----------



## bundy

I am new to tube rolling & op amps so i hope this doesn't sound like a stupid question, is there a list of wot op amps can be used in my little dot 1+? I have been given a few & i have found all but 1 mentioned in this thread. Does anyone know if i can use a LT1366 CN8 in my amp. I am using a OPA2107 now & i am very impressed with the improvement it has made to the sound quality over the stock op amp


----------



## plus9paradox

Hey gibosi,
 What DAC are you using with your LD I+?


----------



## i luvmusic 2

I'am interested on this question.......
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I'am looking for a DAC to pair with my Future CRACK KIT and i'am considering the Schiit Modi.


----------



## plus9paradox

i luvmusic 2 said:


> I'am interested on this question.......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I am looking at the ODAC right now and it seems to be the business for the money, but the Modi has come to mind as well :/


----------



## i luvmusic 2

plus9paradox said:


> I am looking at the ODAC right now and it seems to be the business for the money, but the Modi has come to mind as well :/


 
 Same here i've looked at both but i'm in favor of the Modi.


----------



## plus9paradox

What qualities of the Modi helped make the decision for you?


----------



## i luvmusic 2

plus9paradox said:


> What qualities of the Modi helped make the decision for you?


 
 The looks actually plus the returned policy.


----------



## plus9paradox

Aww the return policy is key I did not think about that at all. Hmm, more food for thought I guess think I might just pull the trigger on the ODAC pcb and put together some sort of enclosure for it.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

plus9paradox said:


> Aww the return policy is key I did not think about that at all. Hmm, more food for thought I guess think I might just pull the trigger on the ODAC pcb and put together some sort of enclosure for it.


 
 Will yeah good Luck on your DIY..........


----------



## i luvmusic 2

IMHO the sound quality/signature of a DAC or AMP is very personal what will sound good for me it might not the same for others.


----------



## plus9paradox

Hopefully it turns out better than most of my projects


----------



## i luvmusic 2

plus9paradox said:


> Hopefully it turns out better than most of my projects


 
 It should if you did something similar.For my self i build some adapters before and now i'am waiting for my CRACK KIT i've never build a AMP before so wish me luck as will.


----------



## gibosi

plus9paradox said:


> What DAC are you using with your LD I+?


 
  
 I was lucky to stumble across a used Audio-gd Fun (DAC / Preamp / Headphone amplifier combo) and an Audio-gd USB to Coaxial Digital Interface for a good price. Of course, I don't use the amp portion of this unit, but I do use the preamp and DAC. The DAC, an AD1852 with a dual OPA-Earth discrete op amp seems pretty neutral to me and I am quite happy with it.
  
 So while I think you cannot go wrong with a Modi or an ODAC, keep in mind that there are lots of options out there....


----------



## odinsride

gibosi said:


> Congratulations on solving the problem! It's a shame that your amp is defective, but it is very fortunate that you decided to roll 408A tubes now, and not a year from now, so you are able to make a strong case for a refund.
> 
> 7.2v is a little high, but that is not surprising. The LD heater voltage is unregulated, so if the AC voltage coming out of the wall is a bit high (not at all uncommon) the heater voltage will also be high. Plus, with no tube plugged in, there is no load on the heater circuit. Typically, with a tube plugged in, the reading at the pins will be a bit lower. Anyway, nothing to worry about.
> 
> And IMHO, your decision to purchase your next amp directly from LD is a good one. They have one of the best warranties in the business.


 
  
 Finally got my replacement LD I+ today (btw David was great to work with and provided excellent service).  The new I+ unit works as it should on the 408A setting, and I finally get to listen to my WE408A tubes, they sound great! Very happy with my now complete setup! (Modi DAC -> LD I+ (upgrades: WE408A/OPA2107) -> Audio Technica ATH-AD700).  I feel like i'm listening to Led Zeppelin again for the very first time   Thanks again for your help gibosi!


----------



## plus9paradox

odinsride said:


> Finally got my replacement LD I+ today (btw David was great to work with and provided excellent service).  The new I+ unit works as it should on the 408A setting, and I finally get to listen to my WE408A tubes, they sound great! Very happy with my now complete setup! (Modi DAC -> LD I+ (upgrades: WE408A/OPA2107) -> Audio Technica ATH-AD700).  I feel like i'm listening to Led Zeppelin again for the very first time   Thanks again for your help gibosi


 
 Which album/mastering did you give a listen to?


----------



## odinsride

plus9paradox said:


> Which album/mastering did you give a listen to?


 
 III and IV from The Complete Studio Recordings


----------



## plus9paradox

odinsride said:


> III and IV from The Complete Studio Recordings


 
 Nice! recently I have been listening to the new 2014 remaster of "Led Zeppelin II" as well as some vinyl copies of "Led Zeppelin I" through my LD I+ and I am loving it


----------



## Brian_the_King

What is the current LDI+ revision? I have a 2.0 from early 2010 that is starting to s--t the bed. Has anything of substance changed? Considering replacing my LDI+ with a new LDI+...


----------



## gibosi

brian_the_king said:


> What is the current LDI+ revision? I have a 2.0 from early 2010 that is starting to s--t the bed. Has anything of substance changed? Considering replacing my LDI+ with a new LDI+...


 
  
 I am not aware of any changes, but I suggest that you direct your question to David at Little Dot:  little.tube@gmail.com


----------



## plus9paradox

What seems to be the issue with your LD I+? Would like to help if possible


----------



## Brian_the_King

The left channel rca jack doesn't stay tight. It spins freely when my cables move around even a little bit... eventually it completely detached itself from the solder on the inside of the amp, so I re-soldered and tightened the rca jack as much as I could.

This worked great for a while, until one day when I simply slid the amp a few inches closer to me so I could reach the volume. The rca jack had worked itself loose again, with very little provocation, and now I have static on the left channel. It's not like I abuse the thing


----------



## plus9paradox

brian_the_king said:


> The left channel rca jack doesn't stay tight. It spins freely when my cables move around even a little bit... eventually it completely detached itself from the solder on the inside of the amp, so I re-soldered and tightened the rca jack as much as I could.
> 
> This worked great for a while, until one day when I simply slid the amp a few inches closer to me so I could reach the volume. The rca jack had worked itself loose again, with very little provocation, and now I have static on the left channel. It's not like I abuse the thing




If you could post some pictures of the interior of your amplifier it would greatly help especially area near rca connections in rear


----------



## Brian_the_King

I will do that, thanks


----------



## plus9paradox

brian_the_king said:


> I will do that, thanks


 
 Assuming you can verify visually that the rca isn't shorting at the moment does the static change channels if you swap tubes between L/R? I am thinking an intermittent short to ground in the rca damaged either a vacuum tube, transistor, or opamp. Though my knowledge in this situation is slighty limited it is easy to troubleshoot the opamp and tubes with very little work.


----------



## Brian_the_King

I will do some tests when I get home, just to verify, but I will tell you this now - I can eliminate the static & distortion (for less than a second at a time, mind you) simply by playing around with the position of my interconnect cables. The left-channel rca jack spins left or right when I move the cable.


----------



## Frankzappa92

How do you guys like your LD1+? I'm probably going to sell my fiio e10 on here and then use those funds to purchase a LD1+. I have a pair of grade 325is. To those of you who run your Grados through the LD, what can you say about the sound? 
  
  
 Thanks! I welcome any grado owners, or any LD1+ owners to talk about their experiences in the sound too.


----------



## plus9paradox

frankzappa92 said:


> How do you guys like your LD1+? I'm probably going to sell my fiio e10 on here and then use those funds to purchase a LD1+. I have a pair of grade 325is. To those of you who run your Grados through the LD, what can you say about the sound?
> 
> 
> Thanks! I welcome any grado owners, or any LD1+ owners to talk about their experiences in the sound too.


 
 honestly it sounds to me as if buying a pair of new panel mount rca jacks would solve your issue, or trying different interconnects.


----------



## Arsis

frankzappa92 said:


> How do you guys like your LD1+? I'm probably going to sell my fiio e10 on here and then use those funds to purchase a LD1+. I have a pair of grade 325is. To those of you who run your Grados through the LD, what can you say about the sound?
> 
> 
> Thanks! I welcome any grado owners, or any LD1+ owners to talk about their experiences in the sound too.




I feed my LD1+ with the line out of the E10. Sounds great. Sold my 325is though... just not for me.


----------



## JoeDoe

If there are any LD owners who'd like to try the endgame C3G tubes, I'm selling a pair of C3G to 6ak5 adapters. PM me for more info.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

If that is the endgame tube why sell it?


----------



## JoeDoe

Bc I sold the amp


----------



## i luvmusic 2

My endgame tube for my LD 1+ is Chatham 6AS7G this tube have a big soundstage and plenty of details,I'am not a Basshead so this tube work very well for me.


----------



## forestitalia

I'm using cv138 setting for the first time, the right channell is much more loud than the left, even if I invert the valves.
 Any suggestion? It could be balanced?
  
 Thanks


----------



## gibosi

forestitalia said:


> I'm using cv138 setting for the first time, the right channell is much more loud than the left, even if I invert the valves.
> Any suggestion? It could be balanced?


 
  
 It could be that one of the jumpers is defective.
  
 There is a way to check this. The EF91/92 jumper for each socket simply connects pin 7 to pin 5. That is, it connects Grid 3 (pin7) to the Plate (pin 5).
  
 To test this, you can easily make this connection in the socket. Put your LD back into EF95 mode. (I am assuming that EF95 has been working fine). Looking down on your sockets, the pinholes are counted counter-clockwise, starting with the pinhole to the right of the gap. Therefore, pinhole 7 is the last pinhole to the left of the gap. Cut two small pieces of 26 (or smaller) gauge stranded wire just long enough to allow one end to be inserted into pinhole 7 and the other into pinhole 5. Strip the ends of the insulation off both ends and then carefully insert these wires into the pinholes in both sockets. Next, carefully insert the tubes. Having done this, you have tied pin 7 to pin 5 in the socket which is exactly what the EF91/92 jumper was designed to do.
  
 If you feel comfortable doing this, I suggest you give it a try and see what happens.
  
 Good luck


----------



## forestitalia

Thanks a lot, I going to try.
  
 Meanwhile I investigate and found that last owner used cv131 with the 6JI settings! (thats why was not happy thought)
 could have damaged the amp?


----------



## gibosi

forestitalia said:


> Thanks a lot, I going to try.
> 
> Meanwhile I investigate and found that last owner used cv131 with the 6JI settings! (thats why was not happy thought)
> could have damaged the amp?


 
  
 No, running EF91/92 tubes in the EF95 setting should not cause any damage to the amp. But the tubes might not sound very good.


----------



## forestitalia

gibosi said:


> It could be that one of the jumpers is defective.
> 
> There is a way to check this. The EF91/92 jumper for each socket simply connects pin 7 to pin 5. That is, it connects Grid 3 (pin7) to the Plate (pin 5).
> 
> ...


 
 You're right, it works! And is very good with these Telefunken, without connection there is noise too.
 Do you think it could be fixed?


----------



## gibosi

forestitalia said:


> You're right, it works! And is very good with these Telefunken, without connection there is noise too.
> Do you think it could be fixed?


 
  
 I was pretty sure this would work. 
  
 And I would think that it could be fixed. First, I suggest that you try another set of computer jumpers. Perhaps your jumpers are corroded and/or defective. And while you are at it, check and clean the jumper pins on the circuit board, perhaps they are corroded. If this doesn't solve the problem, then I suspect it will be necessary to resolder connections on the circuit board. (At this point, I should say that I have no experience soldering connections on circuit boards, so the best I can do is suggest how one might do this...)
  
 Using an ohmmeter, check to make sure there is a good connection between the jumper pins on the circuit board and pinholes 5 and 7. (Remember that you will be looking at the underside of the socket, a mirror image if you will, so the pinholes are numbered clockwise, not counter-clockwise.) If the connection is poor, it may be necessary to resolder the connections. If you are not comfortable doing this, perhaps you have a friend who can help you.
  
 If not, there is no reason why you cannot continue to tie these pins together in the socket with the wire jumpers you made. Just make sure you use 26 gauge or smaller stranded wire. For example, do not use solid-core 30 gauge wrapping wire. Solid-core wire, even 30 gauge, is simply too fat. And a wire too fat can stretch-out your sockets. I have used these wire jumpers extensively to run tubes that would otherwise be incompatible with the LD, such as 6AU6, with no problems.
  
 Edit: And very frankly, it is a pain to open the amp up to switch between EF91/92 and EF95. so I often used these wire jumpers instead. 
  
 Cheers


----------



## forestitalia

Changing tubes is so funny, you have a complete different amp in 20 second and 10 quids, I found the right  punch and back listen Metallica's One after ages.
  
 I'm thinking how install an external tube selector, no one tried?


----------



## gibosi

An external tube selector? Something like a "jukebox" of tubes? lol I'm sure it is possible...  But as you say, it takes only 20 seconds to roll a pair of tubes, so maybe it's more trouble than it is worth?


----------



## forestitalia

No, I mean only a switch to pass from ef91 to ef95 without open it.


----------



## gibosi

Well, until you get around to installing such a switch, the wire jumpers you made are a lot easier than opening the case, IMO.
  
 Cheers


----------



## forestitalia

Im using this http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=201136542890 now, much better than the original.


----------



## gibosi

I've not tried that one.I am currently running a MUSES 02 op amp, however, it is quite a bit more expensive than the OPA604AP. 
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/400418607953?
  
 I have tried the stock MC33078, an OPA2107, an LME 49990 and the MUSES 01, and I like the MUSES 02 the best.


----------



## forestitalia

Yes, perhaps too cheap to be genuine, but it works, the LT1364cn I took together instead doesn't work, only noise. I'll check for a Muse 02.


----------



## Zap 4055

Does anybody have any tube/opamp recommendations for AKG K240 studios (55 ohms, 104 dB SPL/V)? I'm getting my first tube amp and I'm trying to see if the Little Dot I+ would be my best option...


----------



## gibosi

zap 4055 said:


> Does anybody have any tube/opamp recommendations for AKG K240 studios (55 ohms, 104 dB SPL/V)? I'm getting my first tube amp and I'm trying to see if the Little Dot I+ would be my best option...


 
  
 The "best option"? Hard to say... lol...  However, for the money the LD1+ is hard to beat for low Z phones. Get yourself a MUSES 02 op amp and a pair of tall-bottle EI 6HM5 / EC900 (EF95) and enjoy.


----------



## Zap 4055

gibosi said:


> The "best option"? Hard to say... lol...  However, for the money the LD1+ is hard to beat for low Z phones. Get yourself a MUSES 02 op amp and a pair of tall-bottle EI 6HM5 / EC900 (EF95) and enjoy.


 
 Yeah, I guess that is very subjective lol... I'm just looking for something that pairs well with the headphones, drives them properly, is a good tube amp for beginners, aaand fits in my budget of $150 lol. Basically I'm debating on either LD1+ (now with your recommended opamp and tubs) or the Schiit Vali. Both paired with an ODAC or Stoner Acoustic's UD110v2. Anyways, I'm getting off topic here lol. I saw the link for the MUSES 02 op amp above but where do you recommend  buying the  EI 6HM5's from?


----------



## gibosi

Search ebay (worldwide) for "6HM5 Yugoslavia"; The vendor is www-tubes.rs located in Serbia.
  
 Here is a listing for 4 tubes for $24.50 (or maybe less with the "Make Offer" option):
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6HM5-EC900-Lot-of-four-4-tubes-EI-Yugoslavia-NOS-free-shipping-/261447378322?


----------



## Zap 4055

Awesome man! Thanks!


----------



## i luvmusic 2

I used my Ld 1+ with QXX1 nice pair.


----------



## ryencoke

Also have the LD 1+ with MUSES 02 op amp and a pair of tall-bottle EI 6HM5 on Q701. Sounds great to me!


----------



## Arsis

Ahhh, there it is! Up until now I have not been happy with my Little Dot. Started with 6J1 then GE 5654. I swapped the op-amp to a Burr-Brown opa2107. Still no good. Recently I found a matched pair of new old stock Western Electric WE408A (mfg date 3/54). My amp finally sounds the way I expected it to.


----------



## edshull

I recently picked up my new Little Dot I from Amazon. I'm pairing it with Grado SR125's. An Amazon reviewer recommended rolling in Voshkod 6ZH1P tubes, which I did. I also purchased an OPA627. 
  
 I'm new to this, so I was hoping to get some advice. First, is this a good combo for rock music? Second, do I need to change the jumpers for the new tubes? And third, can someone point me to a good post or article on replacing the opamp? I've never done it before.  Thanks in advance, guys.


----------



## gibosi

edshull said:


> I recently picked up my new Little Dot I from Amazon. I'm pairing it with Grado SR125's. An Amazon reviewer recommended rolling in Voshkod 6ZH1P tubes, which I did. I also purchased an OPA627.
> 
> I'm new to this, so I was hoping to get some advice. First, is this a good combo for rock music? Second, do I need to change the jumpers for the new tubes? And third, can someone point me to a good post or article on replacing the opamp? I've never done it before.  Thanks in advance, guys.


 
  
 The Voskhod 6ZH1P is the Russian version of the 6AK5 / EF95, so if your amp is set up to use EF95, you don't have to change jumpers.
  
 Swapping out op amps is very easy. The only thing you have to worry about is aligning the notch or mark on the op-amp with the notch on the socket. This post might be helpful:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/432749/the-opamp-thread/4440#post_9847005


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## edshull

Thanks for the reply. Probably a dumb question, but is EF95 the default for the Little Dot I? I have changed anything, so do I need to?
  
 And that's for hte link, that's exactly what I was looking for.


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## gibosi

edshull said:


> Thanks for the reply. Probably a dumb question, but is EF95 the default for the Little Dot I? I have changed anything, so do I need to?


 
  
 Yes EF95 is the default as the base price of the amp includes the Chinese 6J1 (EF95) tubes installed. But if you purchased the amp with upgraded tubes, then it would have come configured to run either EF92 or 408A, depending on which of these upgrades you purchased.


----------



## Gr33nL34f

would the Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV be good for MS1i's?


----------



## stacker45

I am both lazy and clumzy, so since I don't want my beloved LD1+ to go up in smoke, I would like to roll tubes (I have the stock tubes now), without having to open the unit up to fiddle with the little switches.
  
 System no:1 consists, of a Yamaha DVD-S1800 SACD player, a Yamaha YP-D6 TT, with an Audio Technica AT95e cartridge, a vintage Yamaha CA610-II, inegrated amplifier, and the headphones are all Grados (yes I have joined the Dark Side), they are GS/PS/HP1000.
  
 System no:2 consists of a Yamaha DVD-S2700 SACD player, a Technics SL1200 MK2 TT, with an Ortofon 2M Black cartridge, and a Yamaha RX-V2200 Dolby Digital/DTS Reciever, and the headphones are the same as system no:1.
  
  
 I realise that it's a lot of information, but I figure the more you know about my system the better. So any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Melvins

gr33nl34f said:


> would the Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV be good for MS1i's?


 
 The Voshkod's are regarded as some of the best all around tubes for the LD1+ and with grado headphones. i've had them for some time now and can attest to their excellency. They've been reviewed a few times now on headfi and are highly praised. They are the final tubes I bought and have been on my LD1+ for years now. I could sit down and compare them to the stock 95's I have but, all I remember is that they did in fact provide an audible upgrade to my music. I can't recommend them enough!


----------



## nojwe

I'm sorry if this has been asked before, but I haven't found the answer yet. I just got my LD +1 and am completely new to tube rolling. I got it with a set of 6HM5 Yugoslavias, the stock 6JIs, and Hytron JHY-6AK5s. I want to make sure I don't break anything, so can someone please let me know if I'm doing this right
  
6JIs and the 6AK5s should use the same jumper setup (J1, J2 uncovered) and the 6HM5 (which is equivalent to an EF95?) should use the same setup as the EF91/92 in the manual (J1, J2 covered), correct?
  
Thanks!


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## ryencoke

All are EF95, and use same jumper settings


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## MunkyOne

Hi,
  
 I'm seeking some advice from those of you here who are experienced with noisy tubes, especially Voskhod 6ZH1P-EV gold pin (rocket logo) tubes.
  
 Today I received my first set of NOS (1975) Voskhods and have now rolled them in to my LD1+.   First impressions are a little disconcerting; the tubes are highly microphonic and sensitive to the proximity of my hand when using the LD1+.   With the tubes in place, I hear a buzzing noise and a little hum.  I understand that 'new' tubes can be noisy at first, and I suspect they will quieten with use.  The main concern is the presence of a low frequency oscillating sound, a bit like flutter.  If I place my hand between the tubes during operation, the noise completely disappears.  The noise is unaffected by the volume position.   The noise is the same with both tubes (I have tried them in each channel and one at a time).  During listening, the noise is audible only in the quietest music passages.
  
 Since I have not experienced anything like this in my tube rolling adventures to date, I wondered if any of you may have some advice.  I have done some searches here, but nothing seemed to match my specific concerns.
  
  
 The tubes were purchsed via ebay from a recommended vendor, although the packaging was less than confidence inspiring; a jiffy bag with the boxed tubes in thin bubble wrap.  The tube markings, although a little feint, seem correct and the boxes bear the correct markings.  Close visual inspection of the tubes looked positive.
  
 It's frustrating because, noise aside, the tubes are very detailed, clear, musical and seem to pair very well with the MUSES02 opamp and my Grados
  
 Anyone here have any thoughts about this, especially the oscillating sound?
  
 Many thanks,
  
 Jeremy.


----------



## gibosi

I assume that it is only these new 6ZH1P-EV gold pin tubes that are problematic. That is, your other tubes sound fine. If so, then the problem would seem to be with these particular tubes.
  
 First, if these tubes actually have gold pins, I find that to be suspicious. In my experience, 6ZH1P-EV have rhodium pins, so I wonder if the gold plating might have been done by a third party....  Ordinarily, given the symptoms you describe, I would suggest scraping and cleaning the pins to ensure that there is a good connection in the socket. But if they are gold plated, that really shouldn't be necessary. Otherwise, the best I can suggest is to allow them to burn in for 20 or so hours and see if they quiet down.
  
 Good luck!


----------



## MunkyOne

gibosi said:


> I assume that it is only these new 6ZH1P-EV gold pin tubes that are problematic. That is, your other tubes sound fine. If so, then the problem would seem to be with these particular tubes.
> 
> First, if these tubes actually have gold pins, I find that to be suspicious. In my experience, 6ZH1P-EV have rhodium pins, so I wonder if the gold plating might have been done by a third party....  Ordinarily, given the symptoms you describe, I would suggest scraping and cleaning the pins to ensure that there is a good connection in the socket. But if they are gold plated, that really shouldn't be necessary. Otherwise, the best I can suggest is to allow them to burn in for 20 or so hours and see if they quiet down.
> 
> Good luck!


 
 Thanks Gibosi,
  
 The pins are indeed gold coloured, if not gold plated.  I cleaned the pins with a de-oxidising fluid before installing.  I will give them a slightly more abrasive clean before installing again.  As you sugges I will let these tubes run for 20+ hours and see if anything changes. 
  
 The boxes are marked correctly, in Russian, and the tubes have the correct markings (Rocket logo, the OTK military designation).   However, as you know, all kinds of things happen in the tube market.  So, I may look around for another pair, from another vendor to compare them.
  
 Either way, the microphonics and other noises are beyond acceptable.  If the burn-in period doesn't yeild any improvement, I will contact the eBay vendor.
  
 Aside from the noise, they play very well indeed in my setup.
  
 Many thanks for your suggestions


----------



## gibosi

I purchased a couple pairs of these back in 2012, from this vendor, and they were fine.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-pc-6J1P-EV-EF95-6F32-6AK7-Gold-Platinum-grid-NIB-/130436695928?


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## MunkyOne

gibosi said:


> I purchased a couple pairs of these back in 2012, from this vendor, and they were fine.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-pc-6J1P-EV-EF95-6F32-6AK7-Gold-Platinum-grid-NIB-/130436695928?


 

 Thanks again gibosi.  Maybe I will order another pair of tubes.  Would you believe it!  This is the same vendor I ordered mine from!  I will contact him and see if he has any non-gold pin in stock.       I am currently burning the voskhods in, and will report back with any changes observed.
  
 Regards.


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## WilliamLeonhart

What is the better version: the 6cq6 or the 408a (both provided by LD)? Before spending money on other tubes I just dont want to end up with stock tubes that are absolutely useless. I suppose these two options are both good but different and I don't know which one is better for my taste.


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## gibosi

"Better" is in the ears of the listener. These tubes are different and what is better for me, or others who reply, may not be better for you. Going by cost alone, I believe that the 6CQ6/EF92 is the better deal for $20, as you can find 408A's on eBay for less than $52.
  
 Further, if you search for 6HM5 in this forum, many believe this is better than either the EF92 or the 408A, and it is usually cheaper, as well.
  
 Have fun!


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## WilliamLeonhart

Thank you for your input, Gibosi. Actually I was pondering over the stock versions of I+, which include the 6CQ6 and the 408A. I remember reading about the 6CQ6 in a detailed tube guide on head-fi, but not much information was available on the 408A.


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## forestitalia

Yesterday decided to try the 408A type I had in the drawer since June: this is a very significant improvement to me!
 Bass and midbass very good, all music much controlled and precise but still valve sound.


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## gibosi

Since you like the Western Electrics, then you might like Sylvania. To my ears, this was the best 408A. 
  

  
 But still, I think the 6HM5 is better. And a lot cheaper!


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## forestitalia

Hi Gibosi! Wich Opa you use with the 6HM5? And what brand are in the pictures?
  
 Would be that: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1x-6HA5-6HM5-EC900-SYLVANIA-NOS-Tube-Rohre-Valvola-Lampe-TSF-Valvula-/260999544888?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3cc4c90038


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## gibosi

forestitalia said:


> Hi Gibosi! With wich Opa you use the 6HM5? And what brand are in the pictures?
> 
> Would be that: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1x-6HA5-6HM5-EC900-SYLVANIA-NOS-Tube-Rohre-Valvola-Lampe-TSF-Valvula-/260999544888?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3cc4c90038


 
  
 I am using the MUSES02. To my ears, the best of all I tried.
  
 There appear to be three good versions of the 6HM5: The Sylvanias you found, The EIs from Yugoslavia and the GE's. The ones I posted are Mullards. GE procured them from Mullard and put their own label on them. As far as I know, GE didn't make this tube, so all of them are rebrands. The only caveat is always buy the tall bottles. In my opinion, the short bottles are quite poor.


----------



## forestitalia

gibosi said:


> I am using the MUSES02. To my ears, the best of all I tried.
> 
> There appear to be three good versions of the 6HM5: The Sylvanias you found, The EIs from Yugoslavia and the GE's. The ones I posted are Mullards. GE procured them from Mullard and put their own label on them. As far as I know, GE didn't make this tube, so all of them are rebrands. The only caveat is always buy the tall bottles. In my opinion, the short bottles are quite poor.


 
 Thanks Gibo for your explanation. With the 408A the Little Dot is already at a very good level, but if you say that the 6HM5 are better I will take the Silvania. The  Ei I don't know, are the Yugo like this: http://www.ebay.it/itm/6HM5-EC900-Lot-of-four-4-tubes-EI-Yugoslavia-NOS-free-shipping-/251611916081?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3a953d2731  ?


----------



## gibosi

forestitalia said:


> Thanks Gibo for your explanation. Perhaps I will take the Silvania, Ei I don't know are the Yugo like this: http://www.ebay.it/itm/6HM5-6HA5-EC900-export-quality-audio-triode-tube-NOS-FREE-SHIPPING-/300879467071?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item460dd0523f  ?


 
  
 Yes, that is the EI manufactured in Yugoslavia. And notice "Proposta d'acquisto":: I know several people who got them for US $5 each.


----------



## forestitalia

gibosi said:


> Yes, that is the EI manufactured in Yugoslavia. And notice "Proposta d'acquisto":: I know several people who got them for US $5 each.


 
 Tried, they refused so I prefer take Sylvania from Italy. May ask you where did you take the Muse02? Are not easy to find.


----------



## gibosi

forestitalia said:


> Tried, they refused so I prefer take Sylvania from Italy. May ask you where did you take the Muse02? Are not easy to find.


 
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/400418607953?
  
 I ordered both the MUSES01 and the MUSES02 from this vendor, but preferred the 02.


----------



## forestitalia

Who knows if the *6BK7 **tube is compatible?*


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## gibosi

forestitalia said:


> Who knows if the *6BK7 **tube is compatible?*


 
  
 The 6BK7 is a double triode. That is, there are two triodes inside one tube. And therefore, one could say that a 6BK7 is similar to having two 6HM5's inside one tube. And such a tube requires more than 7 pins. The 6BK7 has 9 pins, similar to a 12AU7. So no, you cannot purchase two of these and plug them into your LD1+.
  
 However, it is possible to use double triodes in an LD1+.  But in order to do so, it is necessary to cobble together an adapter of some kind....  Something like this.....


----------



## forestitalia

gibosi said:


> The 6BK7 is a double triode. That is, there are two triodes inside one tube. And therefore, one could say that a 6BK7 is similar to having two 6HM5's inside one tube. And such a tube requires more than 7 pins. The 6BK7 has 9 pins, similar to a 12AU7. So no, you cannot purchase two of these and plug them into your LD1+.
> 
> However, it is possible to use double triodes in an LD1+.  But in order to do so, it is necessary to cobble together an adapter of some kind....  Something like this.....


 
 Thanks, your explanation is clear as usual. Im trying to read about tubes but is quite complex, in this page is possible see specification and at least I understand how many pins: http://www.shinjo.info/frank/sheets0.html .
 However many reviews says that 408A is better because of the higher voltage, what think?


----------



## gibosi

forestitalia said:


> Thanks, your explanation is clear as usual. Im trying to read about tubes but is quite complex, in this page is possible see specification and at least I understand how many pins: http://www.shinjo.info/frank/sheets0.html .
> However many reviews says that 408A is better because of the higher voltage, what think?


 
  
 The fact that the 408A has 20 volt heaters makes absolutely no difference. There are excellent 6.3 volt tubes, 12.6 volt tubes, 20 volt tubes and 25 volt tubes. In the end, it comes down to your ears, your headphone and your amp.
  
 I have never heard a 6BK7. However, there are other double triodes I have heard in my LD1+, and too my ears, 6SN7's, 5687's and 6DJ8's are substantially better than a 408A or a 6HM5.
  
 Cheers


----------



## rage3324

I have grado 325i
  
 I have been using them with a Little Dot MkIII (gain level 3) for a few days now and love it. I want to "upgrade" and reduce "complication" when switching to my Beyerdynamic 770 600 Ohms (need to switch the gain settings on the amp.. it is a hassle). I am looking at the little dot i+ but I am not sure what tubes to get with it. Does the EF95 family work with the little dot i+? What do you guys suggest? 
  
 Right now I am running Russian Tubes (Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV, EF95 family) on my MK III @ gain level 3 and the instrument separation is fantastic but the bass is not punchy enough. 
  
 My setup is:
  
 iPad Air 2 (lightning 30 pin adapter) streaming lossless via Plex -> Little Dot MkIII -> Headphones
  
 I am also thinking about a dac, if it is worth it. I would pair this with airport express to bypass iPad


----------



## gibosi

rage3324 said:


> I have grado 325i
> 
> I have been using them with a Little Dot MkIII (gain level 3) for a few days now and love it. I want to "upgrade" and reduce "complication" when switching to my Beyerdynamic 770 600 Ohms (need to switch the gain settings on the amp.. it is a hassle). I am looking at the little dot i+ but I am not sure what tubes to get with it. Does the EF95 family work with the little dot i+? What do you guys suggest?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Generally speaking, amps that have output tubes, such as the MKIII do better with higher Z headphones, such as the Beyerdynamic 770, and amps with SS output, such as the 1+ do better with low-Z headphones, such as the Grado 325i. The 1+ with SS output can deliver more current into low Z loads which should provide a stronger bass with your Grados.
  
 Following this logic, the MKIII should be a better fit for your 770's and the 1+ should be a better fit for your Grado's. My advice would be to set up your MKIII for the 770's and the 1+ for your Grado's. Fortunately, both the 1+ and the MKIII can use all the same EF91, EF92 and EF95.
  
 Usually, a separate DAC does provide improvement, but as I have no experience with the iPad Air, I can't offer any advice.....


----------



## nojwe

I have the I+ and just sold my 325e. They sounded *really* fantastic together. I was using Yugoslavia 6HM5 tubes, which are about $7 off ebay. Excellent tubes.


----------



## rage3324

gibosi said:


> Generally speaking, amps that have output tubes, such as the MKIII do better with higher Z headphones, such as the Beyerdynamic 770, and amps with SS output, such as the 1+ do better with low-Z headphones, such as the Grado 325i. The 1+ with SS output can deliver more current into low Z loads which should provide a stronger bass with your Grados.
> 
> Following this logic, the MKIII should be a better fit for your 770's and the 1+ should be a better fit for your Grado's. My advice would be to set up your MKIII for the 770's and the 1+ for your Grado's. Fortunately, both the 1+ and the MKIII can use all the same EF91, EF92 and EF95.
> 
> Usually, a separate DAC does provide improvement, but as I have no experience with the iPad Air, I can't offer any advice.....


 
 Great info. Thank you! The good news is I have an extra set of the Voshkod Tubes to use. 


nojwe said:


> I have the I+ and just sold my 325e. They sounded *really* fantastic together. I was using Yugoslavia 6HM5 tubes, which are about $7 off ebay. Excellent tubes.


 
 I will pick up those tubes as well. Thank you
  
 Is there a DAC you would recommend as well?


----------



## nojwe

rage3324 said:


> Great info. Thank you! The good news is I have an extra set of the Voshkod Tubes to use.
> I will pick up those tubes as well. Thank you
> 
> Is there a DAC you would recommend as well?


 
  
 I was using the Schiit Modi with the LD I+. They worked very well together to my ears. I ended up upgrading to an Uberfrost which is definitely better in all aspects, but the Modi is really fantastic not even considering the crazy low price.


----------



## rage3324

nojwe said:


> I was using the Schiit Modi with the LD I+. They worked very well together to my ears. I ended up upgrading to an Uberfrost which is definitely better in all aspects, but the Modi is really fantastic not even considering the crazy low price.


 
  
 Thanks for the recommendation! I just received the LD I+ and the difference compared to the LD MK III is very noticeable with my grados.


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## forestitalia

Fin


----------



## ryencoke

forestitalia said:


> Finally happened. Last night I set the LD for the We408 and instead,  I don't know how and why, I inserted the 6AU6A; cooked!
> Seems that 2 resistors are burned. Now it works only with the 408. I could replace the resistors, but I can't read the value.


 
  
 There could be more damaged than just those 2 resistors. But I took a pic of my LD I+ so you can see the resistors, however mine says v2.1 on the board.
  
 http://i.imgur.com/pPK1mXH.jpg
 http://i.imgur.com/UxdvVY9.jpg
  
 Red, black, black, gold, brown
 So that's 20ohm 1% tolerance
  
 Edit: you should also try to contact David, his email in LD I+ forum http://www.littledot.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1473


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

I'm new to tube rolling so this might sound stupid. I thought you only have to remove one pair of tubes and insert the others? Do I have to "set" anything on my I+ if I want to change to Tumg Sol? Thanks


----------



## gibosi

williamleonhart said:


> I'm new to tube rolling so this might sound stupid. I thought you only have to remove one pair of tubes and insert the others? Do I have to "set" anything on my I+ if I want to change to Tumg Sol? Thanks


 
 READ THE MANUAL
  
 The 1+ can roll several different families of tubes, some of which require different settings. If you are only rolling one kind of tube, say EF95, then it is not necessary to change the settings. However, if you wish to roll all the varieties - EF91, EF92, EF95 and 408A - it is absolutely necessary to change the settings accordingly. Failure to do so may result in broken tubes and/or a damaged amp as above.
  
 Again.. READ THE MANUAL


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

gibosi said:


> READ THE MANUAL
> 
> The 1+ can roll several different families of tubes, some of which require different settings. If you are only rolling one kind of tube, say EF95, then it is not necessary to change the settings. However, if you wish to roll all the varieties - EF91, EF92, EF95 and 408A - it is absolutely necessary to change the settings accordingly. Failure to do so may result in broken tubes and/or a damaged amp as above.
> 
> Again.. READ THE MANUAL


 
 Sorry but I have a friend working in a headphone shop shipped 'em directly to me from China. It come in a cardboard box with just the foam and no manual at all  I'm looking up the net for more info. 
  
 Thanks you guys. Luckily I've never tried tube rolling on my I+. It came just a few day before I leave to work in another country so I didn't have much time with it.


----------



## gibosi

williamleonhart said:


> Sorry but I have a friend working in a headphone shop shipped 'em directly to me from China. It come in a cardboard box with just the foam and no manual at all  I'm looking up the net for more info.
> 
> Thanks you guys. Luckily I've never tried tube rolling on my I+. It came just a few day before I leave to work in another country so I didn't have much time with it.


 
  
 Here is some information on the LD1+ from their website:
  
 http://www.littledot.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=819&sid=177ddabe1f99c6d8eb21ad3ae90ddc64
  
 And here is the manual:
  
 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6037680/Little%20Dot%20I%2B%20Reference%20Guide.pdf


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Thanks for the info. Currently my I+ is using 6cq6 tubes, can you recommend some warm, smooth tubes that make a difference? I have the O2 for neutral/accurate amping, so I'd want my I+ to offer a totally different signature.


----------



## davstev

Hi foks,

I became a headphone freak about a month ago, so I am new to this Head-fi thing (first post), although I have a fair bit of enjoyment/experience with non-headphone audio gear and other audio forums.

It all started when I picked up a pair of GRADO HP-1000 drivers in a custom headset made of wood. Lovely 'phones that have replaced my HD600's.

And I'd never owned a headphone amp before, and had a little bit of money to spend, and sought out the best value I could find that was well matched to Grados. Enter the LD 1+, which arrived chez moi yesterday.

I had an ample listening session with the HP-1000's and LD i+ last night. Over all, I totally support the view that this is a wicked wicked value for dollar- build quality, sound, appearance. Super duper.

With regards to sound, the bass is pretty lean, I mean, very lean, when paired with the Joe Grado HP-1000's, which are known to be fairly lean on bass. I am no bass hungry fella, I just want it to be there, be full, and complete the picture, y'know?

Btw, the tubes I have are the WE408A's. 

Any quick recommendations for tubes that are bassier, but retain the full soundstage and other desireable characteristics? Cost aside. I mean, within reason.

David


----------



## gibosi

First, I should say that I have no experience with Grados...
  
 In my opinion, the first thing you should do is to swap out the stock opamp for something better. Searching back through this forum, a number are highly recommended and I finally settled on the MUSES02.
  
 The WE408 is a pretty good tube, but I believe the 6HM5 is better. Tubes manufactured by GE, Sylvania and Ei (Yugoslavia) are all quite similar, so I suggest that you go for the cheapest to start. You will notice that some 6HM5 are tall bottles and some short. In my opinion the short bottles are no where near as good as the tall ones. The 6HM5 uses the EF95 setting.


----------



## davstev

This is an incredibly helpful post, thank you.

I'll definitely do the opamp swap. Easy to do.

For tubes, I'll note your suggestion and do my research. I'll let you know what comes of it.

Have any particular opinions on the Mullard Blackburn 12ax7, a matched pair? I have a lead on a not-cheap but still affordable pair.

Thanks, Kindly.

David


----------



## gibosi

davstev said:


> Have any particular opinions on the Mullard Blackburn 12ax7, a matched pair? I have a lead on a not-cheap but still affordable pair.


 
  
 The 12AX7 is a 9-pin double triode and thus, is not natively compatible with the LD. A 9-pin tube will not fit into the LD's 7-pin sockets. And the 12AX7 is a double triode. That is, it contains both right and left channels in one bottle, whereas, the LD is designed to use a pair of single pentodes/triodes.


----------



## davstev

All great information for the beginner tuber.

Thanks again.

David


----------



## forestitalia

w


----------



## forestitalia

of


----------



## davstev

gibosi said:


> First, I should say that I have no experience with Grados...
> 
> In my opinion, the first thing you should do is to swap out the stock opamp for something better. Searching back through this forum, a number are highly recommended and I finally settled on the MUSES02.
> 
> The WE408 is a pretty good tube, but I believe the 6HM5 is better. Tubes manufactured by GE, Sylvania and Ei (Yugoslavia) are all quite similar, so I suggest that you go for the cheapest to start. You will notice that some 6HM5 are tall bottles and some short. In my opinion the short bottles are no where near as good as the tall ones. The 6HM5 uses the EF95 setting.


 
 gibosi,
  
 Thanks for the suggestion. Today, I bought a pair of 6HM5 tall tubes. Pretty sure I paid too much but the convenience of NOS in a local radio supply store was too tempting. They sound amazing. A big improvement from the 408's. I also changed the Gain on my i+ to high gain and it suits my headphones nicely, and nice to have a bit more power under the hood too. 
  
 Now I need to get a new opamp. I expect that will improve things even more. But the Muses02- it's like $75 plus shipping. That's a lot for a tiny lil' chip. But if it's truly in a league of it's own, I'll pay.
  
 Any other suggestions that are almost as good as the Muses that are a bit cheaper or more available? Opinion on the OPA2107?
  
Thanks,
David


----------



## gibosi

davstev said:


> Now I need to get a new opamp. I expect that will improve things even more. But the Muses02- it's like $75 plus shipping. That's a lot for a tiny lil' chip. But if it's truly in a league of it's own, I'll pay.
> 
> Any other suggestions that are almost as good as the Muses that are a bit cheaper or more available? Opinion on the OPA2107?


 
  
 Well, I do think it is worth it. However, you don't have to pay that much! 
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/400418607953
  
 I have purchased a couple opamps from this vendor, good prices and fast service.
  
 To my ears, the OPA2107 is a big improvement over the stock opamp, but the highs seem to be somewhat rolled off, and the mids are almost shouty. I consider the MUSES02 to be a much improved OPA2107. 
  
 But of course, my ears and gear... YMMV


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Today when I plugged my 325e into the I+, the sound was coming out from the left side only. I noticed one of the tube were not showing any light and decided to swap 'em, so the left side was off and the right side was on. I haven't used my I+ too much (my version came with the 6CQ6 tubes). Can someone tell me, on average how long can a pair of tubes last? Thank you.


----------



## Arsis

Potentially years and years.


----------



## gibosi

williamleonhart said:


> Today when I plugged my 325e into the I+, the sound was coming out from the left side only. I noticed one of the tube were not showing any light and decided to swap 'em, so the left side was off and the right side was on. I haven't used my I+ too much (my version came with the 6CQ6 tubes). Can someone tell me, on average how long can a pair of tubes last? Thank you.


 
  
 New tubes should last several thousand hours. That said, you have to remember that these tubes are around 50 years old. We often don't know how well they were stored over years. And many times we don't even know if they new or used. Even brand new tubes might have small imperfections in the glass, and if so, the glass may crack after being cycled on and off a number of times.
  
 Since we never know when a tube might fail, I always recommend purchasing at least one back-up pair of your favorites.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

That was bad luck for me then. Nevertheless I found out they died right after moving house (I put them inside the original box that they came in). Perhaps it's time for Tung Sol then.


----------



## rage3324

How does the sound MUSES02 compare to the OPA2107 and OPA267? Which would you prefer for grados? Lastly, can you point me to an reputable seller to purchase from?


----------



## gibosi

rage3324 said:


> How does the sound MUSES02 compare to the OPA2107 and OPA267? Which would you prefer for grados? Lastly, can you point me to an reputable seller to purchase from?


 
  
 If you go back one page, I posted a reputable seller for the MUSES02 and I gave my impressions of how the OPA2107 compares. However, I have never heard the OPA267 and I have no experience with grados.


----------



## MunkyOne

rage3324 said:


> How does the sound MUSES02 compare to the OPA2107 and OPA267? Which would you prefer for grados? Lastly, can you point me to an reputable seller to purchase from?


 
 Ni rage3324,
  
 I use grado headphones with my LD1+.  After trying the OPA2107 for a good while, I rolled-in the MUSES02, which I purchsed from Mouser.  After some time listening to the MUSES02, I am now convinced this is perhaps the best chip for the LD1+ if you like a slight warmth to your music.  There is a great amount of detail and texture, but for me, it's slight warmth is what makes it work so well with Grado headphones.  I am currently listening through my new Grado SR325e and am very happy with it.  Ths sound is spacious, smooth, detailed, clear and fluid,  It just flows into my ears, no harshness, not at all fatiguing.  I have not tried the OPA267.  Of course your choice of tubes will make some difference, not to mention any other mods you may have made.
  
 As gibosi has said, the OPA2107 is a big step up from the stock op-amp, but the MUSES02 is considerably better still, and to those who like it's sound, is worth the extra investment.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

Now it's time for you sir to try C3g tubes/adapeters they are expensive but i consider this as my end game for this amp.


----------



## MunkyOne

i luvmusic 2 said:


> Now it's time for you sir to try C3g tubes/adapeters they are expensive but i consider this as my end game for this amp.


 

 These are fine tubes indeed.  Which make of c3g are you using?  I have read that they sound best in triode mode.  Hmm, may have to find some more DIY budget


----------



## gibosi

munkyone said:


> These are fine tubes indeed.  Which make of c3g are you using?  I have read that they sound best in triode mode.  Hmm, may have to find some more DIY budget


 
  
 To the best of my knowledge, all C3g were manufactured by Siemens, so grab the best deal you can regardless of brand.
  
 You might find this post helpful:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/8460#post_11085661


----------



## Rossy007

Just wondering, I have moved back to a CD player (nostalgia) and so I am going directly into my 1+. I am using AKG Q701 with the mod and would like to up my bass response and hoping I can do it with tubes. I listen to all sorts of music and I am generally very happy but would like a little more depth. Can anyone recommend a set of tube that would help.
  
 Thanks


----------



## MunkyOne

gibosi said:


> To the best of my knowledge, all C3g were manufactured by Siemens, so grab the best deal you can regardless of brand.
> 
> You might find this post helpful:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/8460#post_11085661


 
 Thanks gibosi.  I will take a look


----------



## gibosi

rossy007 said:


> Just wondering, I have moved back to a CD player (nostalgia) and so I am going directly into my 1+. I am using AKG Q701 with the mod and would like to up my bass response and hoping I can do it with tubes. I listen to all sorts of music and I am generally very happy but would like a little more depth. Can anyone recommend a set of tube that would help.


 
  
 What tubes are you currently running?


----------



## Rossy007

Since I haven't changed them in over 2 years, I cant remember (old age creeping in) and for some reason I cant attach a pic of whats on there but I do see 6BE6 on the tube...sorry if it doesn't help.


----------



## gibosi

rossy007 said:


> Since I haven't changed them in over 2 years, I cant remember (old age creeping in) and for some reason I cant attach a pic of whats on there but I do see 6BE6 on the tube...sorry if it doesn't help.


 
  
 The 6BE6 is a heptode, and back then, many of us felt that both the EF92 or the EF95 settings were pretty good.....
  
 www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/1140#post_9392055
  
 Since then many feel the 6DT6 (RCA, Sylvania and Tung-Sol), used in the EF92 setting, and the 6HM5 (tall bottles, not the short squat ones), used in the EF95 setting, are better. Both of these are cheap, so I suggest you give these a try and see if one or the other is an improvement.


----------



## Rossy007

Thanks, I'll take a look at them. Any preference to a nice warm deep bass from any particular one?


----------



## gibosi

rossy007 said:


> Thanks, I'll take a look at them. Any preference to a nice warm deep bass from any particular one?


 
  
 Unfortunately it has been more than a year since I have heard either of these, so I can't say.... Sorry....


----------



## NiMo7

hello, i'm new to tube amps, and i'm interested in this amp for my AKG K7XX. it's pretty cheap and from my reading it's good for low impedance-low sensetive headphone like the AKG. am i right about it? It's have enough power for them?
  
 I've never heard tube amps but i realy interested with the warm sound that usaly defines them.
 What tubes should i buy for them? i read good things about the 6HM5. Can you recommend on a reliable seller for a matched pair of those?
 And what about OPamp? sohuld i bother with it? and if i do, what should i pick at a reasonable price?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## gibosi

nimo7 said:


> hello, i'm new to tube amps, and i'm interested in this amp for my AKG K7XX. it's pretty cheap and from my reading it's good for low impedance-low sensetive headphone like the AKG. am i right about it? It's have enough power for them?
> 
> I've never heard tube amps but i realy interested with the warm sound that usaly defines them.
> What tubes should i buy for them? i read good things about the 6HM5. Can you recommend on a reliable seller for a matched pair of those?
> And what about OPamp? sohuld i bother with it? and if i do, what should i pick at a reasonable price?


 
  
 The LD1+ is designed to drive low z headphones, so yes it has enough power.
  
 This is a reliable vendor for 6HM5:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6HM5-EC900-EI-Yugoslavia-NOS-matched-pair-Little-Dot-Amp-FREE-SHIPPING-WW-/251691711374?
  
 And yes, there are much better opamps available. The best I have found to date is the MUSES02, and here is a reliable vendor:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/400418607953?


----------



## NiMo7

gibosi said:


> The LD1+ is designed to drive low z headphones, so yes it has enough power.
> 
> This is a reliable vendor for 6HM5:
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you.
 The 6HM5 offer the warm sound i'm looking for? how is it against the 6ZH1P-EV? I've read it's also a good tube for this amp.
 The MUSES02 really worth it's price? it's more than a third of the price of the amp itself.. with the cost of the upgraded tubes and opamp, maybe i can get a better amp?


----------



## gibosi

nimo7 said:


> Thank you.
> The 6HM5 offer the warm sound i'm looking for? how is it against the 6ZH1P-EV? I've read it's also a good tube for this amp.
> The MUSES02 really worth it's price? it's more than a third of the price of the amp itself.. with the cost of the upgraded tubes and opamp, maybe i can get a better amp?


 
  
 In the end, everyone one has different ears and different gear. And therefore, no one can predict which tubes and which op amps you will prefer. In a sense, tubes and op amps are like ice cream. The only way you can know your favorite flavor is to try every flavor in the store.. or at least a bunch of them.
  
 With my ears and gear, the 6HM5 is the best tube available to use in the LD unless you are willing to make significant modifications to your amp. And again, with my ears and gear, the MUSES02 is the best op amp available to use in the LD. In my opinion, both of these are well worth the money. But again, this is only my opinion.....
  
 However, the only way you can decide which of the 6HM5 and 6ZH1P-EV is the best for you is to try them both. They are relatively cheap, so I encourage you to do so. And the only way to know if the MUSES02 is the best for you is to try it along with a few others. You might be able to resell the tubes and op amps you don't want to keep on Head-fi's for-sale/trade forum which might help your finances.
  
 And maybe you can get a better amp for a bit more money..... I don't know....  But you should keep in mind, that if you decide to purchase another tube amp, you will likely be in the same situation. The stock tubes supplied with most amps are not very good. In order for the manufacturer to have enough inventory on hand, stock tubes tend to be cheap and plentiful. And often cheap and plentiful does not equal good. So if you like the sound of the stock tubes, count yourself lucky. But if you don't, you will be looking at purchasing upgraded tubes again.....
  
 Cheers


----------



## Rossy007

Just received a set of Tung-Sol 6AH6 but not sure of the jumper settings (also I don't know the family) Can anyone help?
  
 Thanks


----------



## gibosi

rossy007 said:


> Just received a set of Tung-Sol 6AH6 but not sure of the jumper settings (also I don't know the family) Can anyone help?


 
  
 This tube needs a little help to be used in the LD. First, set your LD for EF95 tubes. And second, you will need to use a very small piece of stranded wire to jump pins 2 (cathode) and 7 (grid 3) in the socket, like so:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/870#post_9258255
  
 And this next post provides a table indicating how to "strap" the various pentodes and heptodes that we tried:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/1140#post_9392055


----------



## Rossy007

Thanks, I tried but it didn't work, No sound and changed the jumpers to EF91/92 config. The picture looks different to my 1+ as my pins are mirrored. Any suggestions?


----------



## Rossy007

Fixed, wrong jumper settings


----------



## iamxLn

My girlfriend just got me a little dot 1+ for xmas and I have to say I'm loving it, she accidentally got me the one with the upgraded WE408A tubes too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I didn't have to change the jumpers for them to work, just plugged in and it worked out of box.
  
 If I wanted to go to the Voshkods (EF95) in the future, do I need to mess with the jumpers or am I good to go? These weren't in the list and tried to do a search already, but couldn't find anything.


----------



## gibosi

iamxln said:


> My girlfriend just got me a little dot 1+ for xmas and I have to say I'm loving it, she accidentally got me the one with the upgraded WE408A tubes too
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 EF95 = 6JI / 6AK5 / 5654 and a few others:
  
 http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_ef95.html
  
 So if you want to use the Voskhods, or any other EF95 tube, then yes, you will have to take the bottom plate off the amp and change one pair of jumpers, K1 and K2. These jumpers switch between 20V and 6.3V. The 408A tubes you are currently running have 20V heaters, whereas, EF95 tubes have 6.3V heaters.


----------



## oBRADYo

Hey I've got a bit of a predicament. I just got a LD I+ yesterday as a gift. I'm new to the whole tube amp culture so I don't have good grasp on what I'm doing. There seems to be a channel imbalance, one side is louder than the other. I switched the tubes around and the imbalance switched too. I'm guessing that this means theres something wrong with one of the tubes? Also, the amp itself doesn't play that loud. Playing out of my MacBook Pro with it at max volume (I don't have a DAC yet) I don't reach a comfortable listening level until about 70 on the dial. Im powering my Grado 325is and I figured for such a low impedance headphone the amp should really be loud. I mean my cMoyBB plays a hell of a lot louder at lower settings. Any thoughts?


----------



## gibosi

obradyo said:


> Hey I've got a bit of a predicament. I just got a LD I+ yesterday as a gift. I'm new to the whole tube amp culture so I don't have good grasp on what I'm doing. There seems to be a channel imbalance, one side is louder than the other. I switched the tubes around and the imbalance switched too. I'm guessing that this means theres something wrong with one of the tubes? Also, the amp itself doesn't play that loud. Playing out of my MacBook Pro with it at max volume (I don't have a DAC yet) I don't reach a comfortable listening level until about 70 on the dial. Im powering my Grado 325is and I figured for such a low impedance headphone the amp should really be loud. I mean my cMoyBB plays a hell of a lot louder at lower settings. Any thoughts?


 
  
 Since the imbalance follows the tube, then yes, the tube is almost certainly the problem. Before giving up on it, I suggest that you scrape the pins with a dull knife, exposing shiny metal, and see if that solves the balance problem. And while you are at it, scrape the pins of the other tube too.
  
 But sorry, I have no idea why your LD is not as loud as your cMoyBB out of your MacBook Pro. I use a DAC, and I don't own or have access to a MacBook....   Perhaps someone else can chime in here.


----------



## oBRADYo

gibosi said:


> Since the imbalance follows the tube, then yes, the tube is almost certainly the problem. Before giving up on it, I suggest that you scrape the pins with a dull knife, exposing shiny metal, and see if that solves the balance problem. And while you are at it, scrape the pins of the other tube too.
> 
> But sorry, I have no idea why your LD is not as loud as your cMoyBB out of your MacBook Pro. I use a DAC, and I don't own or have access to a MacBook....   Perhaps someone else can chime in here.


 

 Gave it a try but unfortunately it didn't seem to work. One thing I forgot to mention was that two of the screws on the top part of the chassis are not in. They started to strip when I first took the chassis apart to get inside and so I didn't want them back in for fear of not being able to get them out again. Will these two missing screws affect the sound at all. I read somewhere that the screws did more than just hold the thing together. Thoughts?
  
 Also, I have a another question. I feel like a real novice here but my tubes don't glow at all. The longest I've had them on is only like 20-30 minutes. I don't even know if this particular amp would produce that lovely glow I've seen in pictures. Thoughts?


----------



## nojwe

obradyo said:


> Gave it a try but unfortunately it didn't seem to work. One thing I forgot to mention was that two of the screws on the top part of the chassis are not in. They started to strip when I first took the chassis apart to get inside and so I didn't want them back in for fear of not being able to get them out again. Will these two missing screws affect the sound at all. I read somewhere that the screws did more than just hold the thing together. Thoughts?
> 
> Also, I have a another question. I feel like a real novice here but my tubes don't glow at all. The longest I've had them on is only like 20-30 minutes. I don't even know if this particular amp would produce that lovely glow I've seen in pictures. Thoughts?




It sounds like the tubes are bad, not seated correctly, or something is wrong with the amp. I have a LD I+ and my Grado 325es were uncomfortably loud by 25 on the dial with and without an external dac from my MBP. All the tubes I've tried glow very nicely. 

Buy some nice 6hm5 yugoslavia tubes from eBay for $7 a pair. They sound fantastic and trying a new pair will tell you if it was the tubes or the amp.


----------



## oBRADYo

nojwe said:


> It sounds like the tubes are bad, not seated correctly, or something is wrong with the amp. I have a LD I+ and my Grado 325es were uncomfortably loud by 25 on the dial with and without an external dac from my MBP. All the tubes I've tried glow very nicely.
> 
> Buy some nice 6hm5 yugoslavia tubes from eBay for $7 a pair. They sound fantastic and trying a new pair will tell you if it was the tubes or the amp.


 

 Thanks for the input so quick! Is it possible that my gain switches are the opposite of what they should be? Will having the gain setting on high with my low impedance Grado's explain the volume and glowing issue?
  
 I'll definitely look into getting replacement tubes.


----------



## gibosi

obradyo said:


> Gave it a try but unfortunately it didn't seem to work. One thing I forgot to mention was that two of the screws on the top part of the chassis are not in. They started to strip when I first took the chassis apart to get inside and so I didn't want them back in for fear of not being able to get them out again. Will these two missing screws affect the sound at all. I read somewhere that the screws did more than just hold the thing together. Thoughts?


 
  
 In order to gain access to the necessary jumpers, the bottom plate needs to be removed. That is, the two bottom screws on the front and the two bottom screws on the back. So it is necessary to pull the tubes, turn the amp over and remove the bottom plate. In this way, you can roll op amps and change jumpers as necessary. The screws on top allow you to removed the circuit board and other components from the case, which would only be necessary if you were doing major surgery.
  
 In my experience, one screw on top, closest to the front, and just in front of the right socket is critical to the ground circuit. If that screw is too loose, you will hear a very strong ground hum. And I found it impossible to retighten it without taking everything apart and then reassembling it from the inside to assure tight connections. If you are not hearing an unusually strong ground him, then it would appear that the missing screws on your amp are not a problem.
  
 Cheers


----------



## iamxLn

Having trouble finding any impressions of the WE408A that I currently have. How would the voshkods differ? those seem to be the fan favorite here, but I have to say the we408a sound amazing with my mad dog pros.


----------



## nojwe

Maybe, but unlikely I think. You're using the stock tubes? If I set my amp to go gain with my grados I imagine I would only get the volume up to about 10. As far as I know, gain shouldn't affect the amount the tubes glow.


----------



## gibosi

iamxln said:


> Having trouble finding any impressions of the WE408A that I currently have. How would the voshkods differ? those seem to be the fan favorite here, but I have to say the we408a sound amazing with my mad dog pros.


 
  
 It has been too long since I have listened to either of these tubes so I can't really say how they compare. What I can say is the tubes *nojwe* suggested above, the Ei 6HM5 from Yugoslavia, are significantly better than either of these. Like the Voskhods, set your LD for EF95 to use these tubes.
  
 Many of us have ordered from this vendor in the past, and it is worth noting that this vendor encourages Best Offers, so you might be able to get them for a bit less.....
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6HM5-EC900-EI-Yugoslavia-NOS-matched-pair-Little-Dot-Amp-FREE-SHIPPING-WW-/251691711374?


----------



## gibosi

obradyo said:


> Thanks for the input so quick! Is it possible that my gain switches are the opposite of what they should be? Will having the gain setting on high with my low impedance Grado's explain the volume and glowing issue?


 
  
 While the gain setting might explain the volume issue with your cans, it has nothing to do with the glowing issue. First, the tube stage in the LD1+ appears to be configured as a cathode follower. What this means is the tubes are always running full blast into the SS stage, and it is in the SS stage that gain switches can be adjusted and output level is controlled.
  
 And second, the part of the tube that glows is the cathode. And in some tubes the cathode is completely surrounded by the plate, and the only glow you can see is where the cathodes extend below the lower mica and above the upper mica. In other tubes, the plates do not entirely surround the cathodes, or in some cases, the plates have large holes, and therefore, the glow of red hot cathodes can easily be seen. So the amount of tube glow you see really comes down to how the tubes are constructed, and nothing else.


----------



## Rossy007

Wow!!, been burning the 6AH6 (thanks gibosi for the recommendation). They sound fantastic. I did the AKG Q701 mod and feel it defiantly increased the bass, not only detail but warmth and depth. I couldn't be happier, thanks everyone for all their input, I pop in a Cd and sit back with a smile on my face


----------



## iamxLn

gibosi said:


> It has been too long since I have listened to either of these tubes so I can't really say how they compare. What I can say is the tubes *nojwe* suggested above, the Ei 6HM5 from Yugoslavia, are significantly better than either of these. Like the Voskhods, set your LD for EF95 to use these tubes.
> 
> Many of us have ordered from this vendor in the past, and it is worth noting that this vendor encourages Best Offers, so you might be able to get them for a bit less.....
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6HM5-EC900-EI-Yugoslavia-NOS-matched-pair-Little-Dot-Amp-FREE-SHIPPING-WW-/251691711374?


 
  
 does it keep the air, clarity and detail of the we408?


----------



## gibosi

iamxln said:


> does it keep the air, clarity and detail of the we408?


 
  
 Yes, I found it to be better in every respect. However, my ears and gear are different than yours. The only way for you to know is to give these a try. In fact, I believe you should try a bunch of tubes. This is the only way you can know what you like and what you don't like. No one can tell you which tube is the best for you. So try as many tubes as your wallet can afford. 
  
 And I assure you that I follow my own advice. I have almost 800 tubes...  and I just scored a couple more that are on their way to me now. lol


----------



## oBRADYo

gibosi said:


> While the gain setting might explain the volume issue with your cans, it has nothing to do with the glowing issue. First, the tube stage in the LD1+ appears to be configured as a cathode follower. What this means is the tubes are always running full blast into the SS stage, and it is in the SS stage that gain switches can be adjusted and output level is controlled.
> 
> And second, the part of the tube that glows is the cathode. And in some tubes the cathode is completely surrounded by the plate, and the only glow you can see is where the cathodes extend below the lower mica and above the upper mica. In other tubes, the plates do not entirely surround the cathodes, or in some cases, the plates have large holes, and therefore, the glow of red hot cathodes can easily be seen. So the amount of tube glow you see really comes down to how the tubes are constructed, and nothing else.


 

 Thanks for the explanation. I made my room pitch black and tried to find even the slightest hint of glow last night but couldn't :/
  
 I'll order replacement tubes today. If new tubes doesn't fix my issues would you recommend I call in on the warranty of the amp and get a replacement?
  
 Looking at the inside here's how I have it setup: (V3.0)
 For both K1/K2, the cap covers the middle and rightmost prong, the leftmost prong is exposed
 For both J1/J2, the two prongs are both completely exposed
 For both J3/J4, the cap covers both of the prongs
  
 Is my setup correct or did I make a mistake somewhere?


----------



## iamxLn

Reading through the post, it doesn't seem like too many people change the gain. Since I'm using a planar is this something that's recommended?


----------



## gibosi

obradyo said:


> Thanks for the explanation. I made my room pitch black and tried to find even the slightest hint of glow last night but couldn't :/
> 
> I'll order replacement tubes today. If new tubes doesn't fix my issues would you recommend I call in on the warranty of the amp and get a replacement?
> 
> ...


 
  
 What tubes do you have? Can you read the characters printed on the tubes? It occurs to me that if you have a pair of 408A (20V) and the amp is setup for 6J1 (6.3V), this might explain why there is no glow....
  
 Who you call for warranty depends on who you bought it from. If you bought directly from Little Dot, or one of their authorized resellers, you can contact Little Dot directly at little.tube@gmail.com. If you purchased it from another dealer, then Little Dot will not provide warranty service, so you will have to contact the seller.
  
 http://www.littledot.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=439&sid=94e7460bf1f193b428d9b186f7e2721f
  
 There are labels on the circuit board next to the K1/K2 jumpers. And rather than trying to explain right and left, it would be best to indicate the label. Are the K1/K2 jumpers set for 408A or 6J1? Obviously, this setting should conform to the tubes you are running.
  
 For both 408A and 6J1, JI and J2 must be open, that is, not jumped. If you decide to roll EF91 and EF92, it is necessary to connect the two pins with a jumper.
  
 If J3/J4 are jumped, the gain is 3.5. If open, the gain is 7.


----------



## gibosi

iamxln said:


> Reading through the post, it doesn't seem like too many people change the gain. Since I'm using a planar is this something that's recommended?


 
  
 From the amp's perspective, planars are no different than any other low-Z can....


----------



## gibosi

rossy007 said:


> Wow!!, been burning the 6AH6 (thanks gibosi for the recommendation). They sound fantastic. I did the AKG Q701 mod and feel it defiantly increased the bass, not only detail but warmth and depth. I couldn't be happier, thanks everyone for all their input, I pop in a Cd and sit back with a smile on my face


 
  
 Glad you are enjoying the 6AH6. I still think the 6HM5 is a better tube, but for sure, the Tung-Sol 6AH6/6485 is the best 7-pin pentode I have in my collection.
  
 Cheers


----------



## oBRADYo

gibosi said:


> What tubes do you have? Can you read the characters printed on the tubes? It occurs to me that if you have a pair of 408A (20V) and the amp is setup for 6J1 (6.3V), this might explain why there is no glow....
> 
> Who you call for warranty depends on who you bought it from. If you bought directly from Little Dot, or one of their authorized resellers, you can contact Little Dot directly at little.tube@gmail.com. If you purchased it from another dealer, then Little Dot will not provide warranty service, so you will have to contact the seller.
> 
> ...


 

 I've got WE408A's. I realized when I opened the chassis I accidentally had K1/K2 set to 6J1 so the tubes weren't getting enough voltage. I fixed it and now the amp is working perfectly. Thanks for all your expert help. My 325is never sounded so good!


----------



## oBRADYo

gibosi said:


> What tubes do you have? Can you read the characters printed on the tubes? It occurs to me that if you have a pair of 408A (20V) and the amp is setup for 6J1 (6.3V), this might explain why there is no glow....
> 
> Who you call for warranty depends on who you bought it from. If you bought directly from Little Dot, or one of their authorized resellers, you can contact Little Dot directly at little.tube@gmail.com. If you purchased it from another dealer, then Little Dot will not provide warranty service, so you will have to contact the seller.
> 
> ...




I've got the WE408A's. I opened up the chassis and realized I accidentally had K1/K2 set to 6J1. I made the switch to 408A's and everything is fixed, the tubes are glowing and they play much louder at lower levels. Thanks for your expert help. My 325is never sounded so good!


----------



## gibosi

obradyo said:


> I've got the WE408A's. I opened up the chassis and realized I accidentally had K1/K2 set to 6J1. I made the switch to 408A's and everything is fixed, the tubes are glowing and they play much louder at lower levels. Thanks for your expert help. My 325is never sounded so good!


 
  
 Congratulations! As this was a gift, it sure would have been a bummer if the amp was defective right out of the box. And in the future, should you decide to roll some different tubes, you are now an expert at configuring the jumpers! 
  
 Enjoy!


----------



## Rossy007

gibosi said:


> Glad you are enjoying the 6AH6. I still think the 6HM5 is a better tube, but for sure, the Tung-Sol 6AH6/6485 is the best 7-pin pentode I have in my collection.
> 
> Cheers


what would you say, in your opinion,would be the difference. I don't mind picking up a pair of 6HM5 and what brand would you recommend


----------



## gibosi

rossy007 said:


> what would you say, in your opinion,would be the difference. I don't mind picking up a pair of 6HM5 and what brand would you recommend


 
  
 Technically, since the 6HM5 is a true triode, whereas the 6AH6 is a pentode, strapped as a triode, the 6HM5 is more linear and has less distortion. What I most remember (I haven't listened to either of these tubes in a over a year) is a more holographic, 3-D presentation. You want the tall bottles, not the short, squat ones. Sylvania, GE and Ei (Yugoslavia) are all good and all cheap.
  
 For example:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6HM5-EC900-EI-Yugoslavia-NOS-matched-pair-Little-Dot-Amp-FREE-SHIPPING-WW-/251691711374?


----------



## Rossy007

Thanks, can I ask what you are currently listening to


----------



## gibosi

rossy007 said:


> Thanks, can I ask what you are currently listening to


 
  
 I am currently listening to a Telefunken 6463. This is a double triode. And in order to use this tube, I have turned my Little Dot into a Little "Monster" Dot! lol. 
  
 I have added an external 9-pin breadboard socket. Since it is a breadboard socket, I can easily rewire it to run virtually any 9-pin double triode, for example, 12AU7, 6DJ8, 5687, 2C51 or what have you. And with adapters, I can also run tubes with different bases, such as 6SN7 and ECC40. I use two 7-pin test sockets to route the signal from the external socket into the amp. And since a number of these tubes require a higher heater current than the LD can provide, I have also added an external heater power supply comprised of a surplus laptop power supply and a step-down voltage regulator. It is pretty amazing what one can do with this little amp. 
  
 With a nice Tung-Sol 6SN7GT


----------



## michaelkeeney

Hello, I realize this is a thread mainly about tube rolling, and not general Little Dot questions.  I would have asked in other respective threads, but they all seemed dormant from the looks of things, so I apologize if I'm looking in the wrong place.  If I'm really in the wrong spot, and anyone can point me in the right direction, it would be much appreciated.  Otherwise, here goes...
  
 I recently ordered a Little Dot, and 2 Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV tubes.  As a player of tube guitar amps, I've wanted for years some desktop tubes as part of my stereo.  I'm pretty new to the whole hifi game, and currently have a pair of Grado PS500e, as well as a Rotel amp/DAC that I'm running some low end B&Ws and a Rel T5.  My question is this:  Will running the Little Dot as a preamp make any sort of difference to my Grados?  They are a pretty neutral headphone from what I've read, and I wanted to play around with sound, etc (like any of us here, right?).  The people at the store I purchased my gear from said it wouldn't do anything, but they also didn't really know their shtick on their headphone lines when I was asking them questions.  I've tried finding the answer to this online, but don't seem to be key wording properly.  Anyone care to help a hopeless newb? lol  
  
 Thanks for reading.
  
 mk


----------



## HeatFan12

Hi Mike. How will you run your LDI+ as a preamp? If you're asking if the I+ will sound good with Grados as a headphone amp, then yes. Grados and I+ is a great match


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## michaelkeeney

Thanks HeatFan.  There is a preamp out on the back of the amp.  Would running the LD+ from that to my headphones affect the music going to the headphones?


----------



## HeatFan12

I run a couple tube amps as pre but they have outputs. Your LDI+ has outputs or do u have the MK IV?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## michaelkeeney

I have no idea on the LD+ tbh.  I'd say not, actually, looking at the photo online now.  Just RCA inputs.  I was trying to do something on the cheap, as I thought at the time when ordering it that I needed it to run an external headphone amp for my Grados in addition to my Rotel.  Then I thought, ah what the hell, maybe I can run it as a pre.  Now, of course, I see where the problem lies if there is no out on the LD+.
  
 So… the MK IV looks pretty nice, huh?  lol.
  
 edit:  What tube amps you run as pre?
  
         ah, I see your extensive list.


----------



## HeatFan12

Lol. I run the Woo Audio 2, Darkvoice 336SE and the LDMKIVSE as preamps. However, as a headphone amp for Grados the I+ is the way to go


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## michaelkeeney

Awesome, thanks.  I wasn't sure which ones were which on the list despite the clear categorization.  My knowledge isn't there yet.  I think I'm going to return my LD and reallocate my funds to something along the lines of what you're mentioning.  My Rotel has an headphone jack, so I can listen with my Grados just fine for the time being.  I didn't understand the purpose of the headphone amp to begin with.  I just saw tubes, and wanted.  Sounds like I have some research to do on these preamps.  Thanks again for your insight.  I will now let this thread go back to normal.


----------



## rage3324

Is anyone using a Little Dot I+ with AKG k702/k712 or is the MK III a better pairing?


----------



## iamxLn

I've read every page on this thread and can't find an answer for this, I know the LM4562 has more detail than the stock OPAMP, but does the bass suffer compared to the stock one? I don't want to go with any of the warmer sounding amps as my headphones are already pretty warm and dark and that's what I'm trying to get away from.


----------



## michaelkeeney

Heat Fan, if you had to choose between a Dark Voice, and a LD Mk III, which would you do?
  
 edit:  Just ordered MK III.  Also, LD+ arrived today… haven't opened it yet.  Have return label printed, but for some reason I'm finding myself tempted to open the thing instead.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

rage3324 said:


> Is anyone using a Little Dot I+ with AKG k702/k712 or is the MK III a better pairing?


 
  I don't have K702 what i have is the Q701,I prefer the LD 1+ over MK III for my Q701 due to lack in bass power when using it with the MK III bass is a bit thin with the MK III IMO LD 1+ is a better choice for my Q701.


----------



## rage3324

i luvmusic 2 said:


> I don't have K702 what i have is the Q701,I prefer the LD 1+ over MK III for my Q701 due to lack in bass power when using it with the MK III bass is a bit thin with the MK III IMO LD 1+ is a better choice for my Q701.


 

 Thanks! I have an MK III and that is what I noticed. I wasn't sure if I was hearing things...


----------



## michaelkeeney

There must be tubes to run in the MK III that produce more bass, no?


----------



## rage3324

michaelkeeney said:


> There must be tubes to run in the MK III that produce more bass, no?


 

 Yes ,that is probably true but I think this is more of a pairing (power/ohms) issue with the amp and headphones


----------



## michaelkeeney

Ah, gotcha. I ask these questions as a total newb to this world, so please excuse the naivety.


----------



## michaelkeeney

Hey Rage, what are you running tube wise in your MK iii?


----------



## i luvmusic 2

michaelkeeney said:


> There must be tubes to run in the MK III that produce more bass, no?


 
 Yes,The endgame tubes( for me at least) is the C3g's this tubes makes my LD 1+ and MK III sound thicker more on everything to my ears.IMO the C3g's are far better tubes than any other tubes i have tried(6AS7G,6SN7 and various plug and play tubes) for my 1+ and MK III only thing is the C3g's are not that cheap to run with these amps.


----------



## gibosi

While *i luvmusic 2* designed and built a custom adapter, it is very easy to run C3gs using two pre-built adapters and two spacers. For those who might be interested in trying a pair, this posting might be helpful:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/6000#post_10512665


----------



## ArmAndHammer

I know I need to go back and read this whole thread...but I'm too lazy at the moment and getting ready for work. I currently have a pair of NOS Sylvania GB-408A and I love them. Not sure if they are still good. They are in my old LD1+ that I burned up and I got a new (used) LD1+ but I haven't swapped them over yet to see if they still work. I need to look up the whole jumper thing. That's how I burned the old one up...swapped tubes and forgot the swap jumpers. Anyways...in case they are dead, what is currently (easily and not too much $$$) available that will give a similar sound? I'm looking for warmth with a little bass boost for my Grado RS1's.


----------



## michaelkeeney

Many thanks to you both, gibosi and I love music.  I'd been reading about those C3g's, might have to get a pair or two.  Have some Voshkods on the way, but I think the C3g's might be more of what I'm looking for.


----------



## lollerberry

I'm trying to get a warmer sound with my HD580's. Any recommendations of tubes to try?


----------



## drofeel71

Hi everyone
  
 Just received my Little Dot 1+, and I am absolutely loving it, this is my first introduction to tubes.
  
 I understand mostly about tube rolling, getting the correct family and setting switches and jumpers within the amp, but as far as opamps I'm clueless. Could anyone tell me if this one would work and is it the correct type, as I have seen some on ebay where the pins are different, bent out at the ends.
  
 Thanks in advance.
  

  
 BTW, am absolutely loving the stock sound, but am intrigued as to how it may sound when changing the opamp.


----------



## gibosi

drofeel71 said:


> I understand mostly about tube rolling, getting the correct family and setting switches and jumpers within the amp, but as far as opamps I'm clueless. Could anyone tell me if this one would work and is it the correct type, as I have seen some on ebay where the pins are different, bent out at the ends.


 
  
 Yes, this 8-pin dual op-amp will work fine in your LD. Notice at the top and the bottom of every forum there is "Search This thread". Doing so in this forum for 2107 will yield quite a few hits that you might find interesting. In my opinion, the 2107 is a significant improvement over the stock op-amp. However, I believe the MUSES02 is even better.
  
 Enjoy!


----------



## drofeel71

gibosi said:


> Yes, this 8-pin dual op-amp will work fine in your LD. Notice at the top and the bottom of every forum there is "Search This thread". Doing so in this forum for 2107 will yield quite a few hits that you might find interesting. In my opinion, the 2107 is a significant improvement over the stock op-amp. However, I believe the MUSES02 is even better.
> 
> Enjoy!


 

 Many thanks gibosi
  
 As the Burr Brown 2107 I can get for under £5, I was thinking of building an arsenal of both tubes and opamps, thanks so much for the quick reply, I can now pull the trigger with confidence.


----------



## drofeel71

Sorry gibosi
  
 One more question if it's not too much trouble...
  
 When switching opamps, is there anything else I need to do with regards to jumpers, switches etc, or do I just swap out the opamp and then I'm good to go.
  
 Thanks again


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Hi guys, do the CV4010 take long to burn-in? I find their treb too harsh


----------



## gibosi

drofeel71 said:


> When switching opamps, is there anything else I need to do with regards to jumpers, switches etc, or do I just swap out the opamp and then I'm good to go.


 
  
 There are no jumpers or any other settings to worry about. What is important is to make sure the op-amp is aligned properly in the socket. That is, line up the notch on the socket to the indented circle on the op-amp, and then you are good to go.


----------



## gibosi

williamleonhart said:


> Hi guys, do the CV4010 take long to burn-in? I find their treb too harsh


 
  
 It generally takes 20 to 50 hours, and sometimes more, for tubes to burn in.
  
 Good luck!


----------



## drofeel71

gibosi said:


> There are no jumpers or any other settings to worry about. What is important is to make sure the op-amp is aligned properly in the socket. That is, line up the notch on the socket to the indented circle on the op-amp, and then you are good to go.


Thank you again for the info gibosi


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

gibosi said:


> It generally takes 20 to 50 hours, and sometimes more, for tubes to burn in.
> 
> Good luck!


 
 Thanks. I hope mine do live up to the name of Mullards.


----------



## ThickGlasses

Okay, noob question for a thread that seems mostly dormant... Does the 1+ come with the right internal settings for the 6JI out of the box or do I have to fiddle around with the internals first? I'm asking because I literally just remembered that I don't own any screwdrivers.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

W





thickglasses said:


> Okay, noob question for a thread that seems mostly dormant... Does the 1+ come with the right internal settings for the 6JI out of the box or do I have to fiddle around with the internals first? I'm asking because I literally just remembered that I don't own any screwdrivers.



What version did u buy?


----------



## ThickGlasses

williamleonhart said:


> W
> What version did u buy?


 
http://www.amazon.com/Little-Dot-6JI-standard-Headphone/dp/B00A2QM5O6/ref=cm_cd_ql_qh_dp_t
 ^^This one right here from SHENZHENAUDIO^^
  
 Sorry about not including that in the first post.


----------



## gibosi

thickglasses said:


> http://www.amazon.com/Little-Dot-6JI-standard-Headphone/dp/B00A2QM5O6/ref=cm_cd_ql_qh_dp_t
> ^^This one right here from SHENZHENAUDIO^^
> 
> Sorry about not including that in the first post.


 
  
 If this is precisely what you purchased, then your amp came with a pair of 6J1s and is configured to run these tubes. It is possible to purchase this amp with 408As or EF92s as an upgrade. And if so, the amp would have come configured to run those tubes. So if your amp came with 6J1s then your amp is configured to run 6J1s.
  
 So shove them in, turn it on and enjoy.


----------



## ThickGlasses

gibosi said:


> If this is precisely what you purchased, then your amp came with a pair of 6J1s and is configured to run these tubes. It is possible to purchase this amp with 408As or EF92s as an upgrade. And if so, the amp would have come configured to run those tubes. So if your amp came with 6J1s then your amp is configured to run 6J1s.
> 
> So shove them in, turn it on and enjoy.


 
 Thanks Gibosi! Just popped 'em in and now I'm enjoying some Dark Side of the Moon!


----------



## michaelkeeney

gibosi said:


> If this is precisely what you purchased, then your amp came with a pair of 6J1s and is configured to run these tubes. It is possible to purchase this amp with 408As or EF92s as an upgrade. And if so, the amp would have come configured to run those tubes. So if your amp came with 6J1s then your amp is configured to run 6J1s.
> 
> So shove them in, turn it on and enjoy.


 
 Do you think that any of those factory upgrade tubes outshine the Voshkods or C3g's?


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

michaelkeeney said:


> Do you think that any of those factory upgrade tubes outshine the Voshkods or C3g's?


 
 No. I have the 6cq6 version and those tubes are highly microphonic.


----------



## ArmAndHammer

gibosi said:


> Yes, this 8-pin dual op-amp will work fine in your LD. Notice at the top and the bottom of every forum there is "Search This thread". Doing so in this forum for 2107 will yield quite a few hits that you might find interesting. In my opinion, the 2107 is a significant improvement over the stock op-amp. However, I believe the MUSES02 is even better.
> 
> Enjoy!


 
 What change do you get with these opamps over stock?


----------



## gibosi

michaelkeeney said:


> Do you think that any of those factory upgrade tubes outshine the Voshkods or C3g's?


 
  
 Tubes are like ice cream. One person loves chocolate and another vanilla. Everyone has different ears and different gear. One tube that is the best for everyone doesn't exist. So... in my opinion, the Voshkod is at the same level as the the 408A and EF92. But the C3g is much better than any of them.


----------



## gibosi

armandhammer said:


> What change do you get with these opamps over stock?


 
  
 Op amps change the sound in the same way as tubes. In my opinion, the stock op amp is congested and somewhat muddy. The better op amps have more transparency and clarity, they are more liquid and and have better bass.


----------



## ArmAndHammer

gibosi said:


> Op amps change the sound in the same way as tubes. In my opinion, the stock op amp is congested and somewhat muddy. The better op amps have more transparency and clarity, they are more liquid and and have better bass.


 
 Yeah, I knew they were like tubes. I was just wondering what the sound signature was specifically with those opamps. I love my LD1+ with the tubes I have now but a little boost in clarity would be nice. I honestly am not sure what's in there now....not sure if they've been rolled. I can't remember. I got the amp used and it's not 100% stock, I do know that. I'll have to check back in my PMs from last year and see if there's mention of it.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Thanks, headfi. Just when I think I'm giving up on upgraditus, some one opens up a whole new category to buy. 

Guys can you recommend a good place to buy op amp on the webz?


----------



## gibosi

williamleonhart said:


> Thanks, headfi. Just when I think I'm giving up on upgraditus, some one opens up a whole new category to buy.
> 
> Guys can you recommend a good place to buy op amp on the webz?


 
  
 The best I have found to date is the MUSES02, and here is a reliable vendor:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/400418607953?


----------



## michaelkeeney

williamleonhart said:


> Thanks, headfi. Just when I think I'm giving up on upgraditus, some one opens up a whole new category to buy.
> 
> Guys can you recommend a good place to buy op amp on the webz?


 
 Dude, no kidding, huh?  Thanks for voicing your experience with those tubes, btw. 
  


gibosi said:


> Op amps change the sound in the same way as tubes. In my opinion, the stock op amp is congested and somewhat muddy. The better op amps have more transparency and clarity, they are more liquid and and have better bass.


 
  
 Oh now we're talking.  Yes, yes, this is what I'm signing up for.


gibosi said:


> Tubes are like ice cream. One person loves chocolate and another vanilla. Everyone has different ears and different gear. One tube that is the best for everyone doesn't exist. So... in my opinion, the Voshkod is at the same level as the the 408A and EF92. But the C3g is much better than any of them.


 
 Good point, Gibosi, thanks.  I'm just getting to burn in point on my Voshkods, but you can bet as soon as my adapters arrive from China for my C3g's I'll be swapping those around… and probably ordering 2 more (I'm a gemini, I can't help it).
  
 So….. I'm guessing new op amps would probably not only the LD+, but also the MK III?


----------



## michaelkeeney

gibosi said:


> The best I have found to date is the MUSES02, and here is a reliable vendor:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/400418607953?


 
 Do you know if that will that work for the MK III by chance?


----------



## gibosi

michaelkeeney said:


> Do you know if that will that work for the MK III by chance?


 
  
 They 1+ is a hybrid amp, that is, a tube input stage coupled to a solid state output stage. The II, III, and IV are not hybrids. These amps use tubes for the input and the output. So if you decide to get a III, instead of rolling op-amps, you will be able to roll output tubes! More fun!


----------



## michaelkeeney

gibosi said:


> They 1+ is a hybrid amp, that is, a tube input stage coupled to a solid state output stage. The II, III, and IV are not hybrids. These amps use tubes for the input and the output. So if you decide to get a III, instead of rolling op-amps, you will be able to roll output tubes! More fun!


 
 Ahhhhhhh ::light going off:: I'm getting there, lol.  Can you tell how green I am?  
  
 I'm just waiting for the adapters for my MK III, and then I'll be running C3g's and my 6SN7 black Sylvanias.


----------



## ArmAndHammer

My LD1+ has the Burr Brown OP-AMP 2107 in it now. How does that compare to the MUSES02?


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

gibosi said:


> The best I have found to date is the MUSES02, and here is a reliable vendor:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/400418607953?


thanks. I want something smooth and warm, does this opamp suit that?


----------



## gibosi

In my opinion, the 2107 is significantly better than the stock op amp. The MUSES02 sounds similar to the 2107, in terms of warmth, liquidity and bass, but I found the 2107 to be a bit shouty in the mids and the highs are a bit recessed. In my opinion, the 02 is an upgraded 2107, and if you like the 2107, you will probably like the 02.
  
 And yes, "smooth and warm" describes the 02 very well.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

I work for a Vietnamese tech site, which led me to befriend this guy owning a headphone store in Hanoi. Last year he got me a brand new LD I+ w/ 6CQ6 tubes for around $100 (with full warranty of course). So I was quite content with this choice of amp. Unfortunately one tube broke when I moved house, so I bought a pair of Mullards CV4010 to replace the stock ones. Now if I buy the new opamp and a pair of WE408A , it will have doubled the price of the amp. I don't know whether if it's worth it.


----------



## ArmAndHammer

IMO, the LD1+ is worth easily double the price new. Maybe prices are much higher over there but I can get WE408A tubes here all day long for $5 a piece. A little more for a matched pair.


----------



## gibosi

williamleonhart said:


> I work for a Vietnamese tech site, which led me to befriend this guy owning a headphone store in Hanoi. Last year he got me a brand new LD I+ w/ 6CQ6 tubes for around $100 (with full warranty of course). So I was quite content with this choice of amp. Unfortunately one tube broke when I moved house, so I bought a pair of Mullards CV4010 to replace the stock ones. Now if I buy the new opamp and a pair of WE408A , it will have doubled the price of the amp. I don't know whether if it's worth it.


 
  
 It is important to keep in mind that this is going to be true of any amp which allows you to roll op-amps and/or tubes. Likewise, the main advantage of most solid-state amps is that there is nothing to change, so you just turn it on and listen. And of course, if you are comfortable with the stock tubes and op-amp in the LD1+, there is no reason to spend any more money.
  
 The reasons for rolling op-amps and tubes are several. First, the stock op-amps and tubes shipped with the LD (and most other amps as well) must be cheap and they must be plentiful. And while the amp is designed to sound very good with cheap op-amps and tubes, replacing them can often improve the sound.
  
 Second, everyone's ears and gear are different. There is no perfect combination of op-amp and tubes that will be the best for everyone. So rolling op-amps and tubes allows you to tailor the sound of the amp to your ears and gear.
  
 Finally, some of us, myself included, really enjoy trying new op-amps and tubes. It is great fun to notice how each changes the sound signature. And eventually, after much trial and error, we finally figure out a combination that really, really sounds good - nirvana - and then we buy a new set of headphones, or what have you, and we have to start all over! lol


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Thanks for that advice  It makes me feel better already!


----------



## michaelkeeney

My grandfather recently passed away, and in cleaning out his house, my uncle came across a box filled to brim with tubes.  Mere months ago I would not have had a clue or a care as to what they were… today, however, is a different day.  "Mom, can you please bring those over if you guys are just going to junk em… I wonder if there are any 6SN7's in there or something of the like."  Yes, yes there were.  Sylvania, RCA, and everything else under the rainbow (and not just 6SN7's).  Bummer I just shelled out $40 for a set of Black Sylvania 6SN7's to throw in my MK III… lol. ::face palm::
  
 Sorry, I couldn't resist sharing this with you guys.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Good taste runs in the family. It's my father that gave me my love for music.


----------



## michaelkeeney

What a great gift to give you   I couldn't help but think it was all a little serendipitous.


----------



## michaelkeeney

Ok, now in the correct thread… just got my new MUSES02 op amp installed, and really liking it.  Great clarity, noticeably improved over the stock op amp.


----------



## HPiper

What are the current best tube and opamp for the LD1+ for Grado headphones. Does any company sell them with the upgraded tube and opamp already installed?


----------



## gibosi

hpiper said:


> What are the current best tube and opamp for the LD1+ for Grado headphones. Does any company sell them with the upgraded tube and opamp already installed?


 
  
 Many people like the MUSES02 opamp and tall-bottle 6HM5s, To the best of my knowledge, no company sells this amp in this configuration....


----------



## Frederose

Will this amp be enough to power DT990s (250ohm) ?


----------



## gibosi

frederose said:


> Will this amp be enough to power DT990s (250ohm) ?


 
  
 from the spec sheet:
  
 Power Output:
 150mW @ 300 ohms
 300mW @ 120 ohms
 800mW @ 32 ohms
  
 I am using mine with 150 ohm HD700.


----------



## Frederose

Do you have to crank up the volume knob to drive your headphones reasonably ?


----------



## i luvmusic 2

I used to drived my DT770 250ohms with this LD 1+ i normally turn the volume knob 9 to 12 o'clock past 12 o'clock is too loud for me.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

For the 250 ohms Beyer's i would skipped the 1+ i would go with the MK III at least i prefered my DT770 250R with the MK III.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Hi I need some hellp. Is this correct for Mullards CV4010?


----------



## gibosi

williamleonhart said:


> Hi I need some hellp. Is this correct for Mullards CV4010?


 
  
 The CV4010 is an EF95 tube, and everything looks correct to me. J1 and J2 are open and K1 and K2 are set for EF95.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Thanks. My LD I+ stills give rattles and buzz, and I don't know what is wrong.


----------



## CJG888

+1 on the Mk III for use with 250 ohm Beyers (I use mine with the DT250-250).


----------



## gibosi

williamleonhart said:


> Thanks. My LD I+ stills give rattles and buzz, and I don't know what is wrong.


 
  
 So you are getting rattles and buzzing with all your tubes? If so, it could be stray radio frequency signals. Nearby printers, computers, cell phones, refrigerators and so forth can all cause RF interference. Try moving your amp to another room to see if this could be the problem. Another thing to check are the internal jumpers and op amp. Make sure they are tight and seated securely. And other possible cause could be your connecting cables. Make sure the connections are tight and snug and you might want to replace all your cables.
  
 If none of these measures helps, then perhaps there is something wrong with your amp. If you purchased it directly from Little Dot, contact the company. If you purchased from another vendor, you will need to contact the seller.
  
 Good luck!


----------



## HPiper

I finally found the old thread on tube and opamp upgrades on their Forum. I was wondering where you get your opamps from. Is there a seller on ebay that you have had good luck with, or a website you could link for me.


----------



## SolidMusic

hpiper said:


> I finally found the old thread on tube and opamp upgrades on their Forum. I was wondering where you get your opamps from. Is there a seller on ebay that you have had good luck with, or a website you could link for me.


 hi, I bought on Amazon Uk (£ 89 I think), and has bought some Russian valves to try. I am delighted.


----------



## Tribbs

hpiper said:


> What are the current best tube and opamp for the LD1+ for Grado headphones. Does any company sell them with the upgraded tube and opamp already installed?




It's been a few years since I've turned this amp on having moved on to better amps. This is what I preferred at the time...
http://www.head-fi.org/t/364043/little-dot-i-tube-rolling/1185#post_7910373


----------



## gibosi

hpiper said:


> I finally found the old thread on tube and opamp upgrades on their Forum. I was wondering where you get your opamps from. Is there a seller on ebay that you have had good luck with, or a website you could link for me.


 
  
 It might be possible to get op amps directly from the manufacturer as free samples. For example, check out the link below for instructions on getting free samples from TI
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/364043/little-dot-i-tube-rolling/1275#post_8228747
  
 My favorite op amp for the LD1+ is the MUSES02. Unfortunately it is more expensive than most. I have found the eBay vendor *janeh2100* to be reliable with competitive prices.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/400418607953?


----------



## Zeejet

Do you guys trust Chinese electronics dealers on eBay? I have heard many nightmare stories about fake parts being sold from China with no repercussions. And by that I mean negative reviews do not affect them since they generate fake accounts to boost feedback and offset negative reviews (this is evident in their feedback history where everything is private and doezens identical reviews from the same buyer are posted).
  
 Personally, I don't trust anything shipped out of China other than certain amps that are vetted by other users.


----------



## gibosi

zeejet said:


> Do you guys trust Chinese electronics dealers on eBay? I have heard many nightmare stories about fake parts being sold from China with no repercussions. And by that I mean negative reviews do not affect them since they generate fake accounts to boost feedback and offset negative reviews (this is evident in their feedback history where everything is private and doezens identical reviews from the same buyer are posted).
> 
> Personally, I don't trust anything shipped out of China other than certain amps that are vetted by other users.


 
  
 Do you trust American dealers on eBay? Personally, I have had zero problems with Chinese vendors, but I can't say the same about American vendors...
  
 But seriously, regardless of where a vendor is located, _caveat emptor_ applies. Due diligence should always be part of the purchasing process. In the end, the buyer should have a high degree of certainty that he will receive exactly what he paid for.
  
 To make a blanket assertion that all vendors located in China, with few exceptions, are crooks is nonsense and irresponsible. Yes, there are vendors located in China that I do not trust. But there are plenty of vendors located elsewhere in the world that I do not trust as well. Unscrupulous vendors are everywhere.
  
 Regarding the Chinese eBay source for the MUSES02 op amp I mentioned above, I have no reason to believe that janeh2100 is in anyway untrustworthy, based on my experience and that of others in this forum.


----------



## Zeejet

Thanks for your thoughts although I sense that you were offended by my assertion that Chinese vendors are generally peddlers of false wares.
  
 I've always been paranoid about counterfeits from China and after buying from a vendor with inflated seller rating, I swore off Chinese sellers altogether. My family is Chinese and from the time I've spent in China, I can tell you that the majority of consumer merchandise is knock off of some sort. The real stuff is far too overpriced for the average Chinese citizen (a Polo shirt over there would be the equivalent of almost 200USD) and so counterfeiting has become the norm. This is not an attack on their character as Chinese people, but rather an observation of a pattern resulting from the socio-economic situation there. 
  
 But what really makes me wary of Chinese vendors is not just the counterfeit culture, but the impunity with which they are allowed to operate within eBay. Feedback inflation fraud is also rampant (although your seller seems to check out). See this for example: http://www.ebay.com/usr/polida2008?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2754 Look under the positive reviews and you'll see that it is a series of mass reviews of the exact same users inflating the seller's rating, probably without purchasing anything.
  
 I agree that there are certainly exceptions, but all of my dealings with North American dealers have been positive and most of my dealings with Chinese vendors have been negative (either never received or item was counterfeit). I suppose will have to agree to disagree about Chinese vendors.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

gibosi said:


> It might be possible to get op amps directly from the manufacturer as free samples. For example, check out the link below for instructions on getting free samples from TI
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/364043/little-dot-i-tube-rolling/1275#post_8228747
> 
> ...


 
 Hi Gibosi, can you recommend other opamps that are cheaper but complements Mullards (or other warm tubes) nicely?


----------



## adtrance

Thanks to the many who contributed to this topic (especially gibosi), I've ordered my LD 1+ with the stock tubes with tube rolling in mind. 
  
 I ordered the Voskhods, the tall bottle Yugoslav 6HM5, and the MUSE02 chip to start.  I should have the amp to test through a pair of 325e in a couple of days.  That should give me a good base of comparison since the other tubes & chip will be another 2 maybe 3 weeks away.
  
 I'll definitely chime in with my impressions as time goes on.  Gotta give back to the community after soaking so much information in!


----------



## gibosi

williamleonhart said:


> Hi Gibosi, can you recommend other opamps that are cheaper but complements Mullards (or other warm tubes) nicely?


 
  
 The 2107 is cheaper and better than stock. But in my opinion, it is not nearly as good as the MUSES02.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/364043/little-dot-i-tube-rolling/2115#post_11241296


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

I think MUSES02 is the way to go then. Do you think that the MUSE is already the best p/p opamp out there for the I+? Actually I was hoping for something of similar p/p, $45 for an opamp is still too high for me


----------



## gibosi

williamleonhart said:


> I think MUSES02 is the way to go then. Do you think that the MUSE is already the best p/p opamp out there for the I+? Actually I was hoping for something of similar p/p, $45 for an opamp is still too high for me


 
  
 The MUSESS02 is the best I have found. But of course, my ears and my gear. 
  
 edit: typo


----------



## Zeejet

SLightly off topic question:
  
 Can I use the Little DOt I+ as a pre-amp for computer speaker such as the Logitech Z623?


----------



## gibosi

zeejet said:


> SLightly off topic question:
> 
> Can I use the Little DOt I+ as a pre-amp for computer speaker such as the Logitech Z623?


 
  
 Well, the 1+ does not have line out jacks, so probably not. That said, it might be possible to use the headphone jack with a cable terminating in two RCA jacks, but I have no idea how well this would work.....


----------



## Zeejet

Thanks for the reply! I was planning to use the the headphone jack. My question was more along the lines of safety and risk of equipment damage.


----------



## gibosi

Although I haven't tried this myself, I can't see anyway that it would not be safe. The only problem I can foresee is if the impedance between the headphone jack and the line-in on your amp does not match up well, it might not sound all that good.  So give it try and let us know!


----------



## Zeejet

gibosi said:


> Although I haven't tried this myself, I can't see anyway that it would not be safe. The only problem I can foresee is if the impedance between the headphone jack and the line-in on your amp does not match up well, it might not sound all that good.  So give it try and let us know!


 
 I tried it and it sounds good! Not sure if the improvement is due to the DAC the amp is running through or the amp (I previously had the speaker system going through the internal audio on the computer).
  
 I do want to emphasize that I am using this as a pre-amp and not a speaker amp. The speakers I'm using are part of a 2.1 system (Logitech Z623) for computers, which has a built-in amp in the subwoofer that powers all drivers in the system from the satelite speakers to the sub itself. It has a 3.5mm input specifically for digitial devices like onboard DACs, iPods, etc.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

So i had a channel imbalance from my LD 1+ this morning and it annoyed me so much so that i end up replacing it with the POTENTIOMETER that came with my CRACK amp that i never install.
 WOW!What a difference all of a sudden the sound opens up big soundstage everything sounds clear the clarity is almost as good as my crack amp.


----------



## adtrance

i luvmusic 2 said:


> So i had a channel imbalance from my LD 1+ this morning and it annoyed me so much so that i end up replacing it with the POTENTIOMETER that came with my CRACK amp that i never install.
> WOW!What a difference all of a sudden the sound opens up big soundstage everything sounds clear the clarity is almost as good as my crack amp.


 
 So you de-soldered the LD1+ stock volume knob and replaced it Bottlehead's?
  
 Volume control seems to be a bottleneck for a lot of amps, so this might be a great option for those handy with a soldering iron!


----------



## i luvmusic 2

Yes i desoldered mine long time ago OK i butchered my amp.Replacing the pot with a different size if you don't butcher your amp is not possible because you need a space for the newer pot usually they are bigger so with the stock case it will never fit.


----------



## adtrance

Does the LD1+ pot have 3 or 6 leads?  I'm assuming 6 for stereo.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

SIX for stereo.........100K


----------



## adtrance

Very interesting to think about rolling the volume pot.
  
 Not a lot of room to play with, in trying to keep the case stock.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

I'am wondering if the ALPS Blue Velvet will fit.


----------



## adtrance

I might break the LD down to see what's possible.  Just need to wait until my Meier shows up first.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

I have used two of the ALPS Blue one for my CRACK and for the SEX but i never check if it is possible to install it into the 1+ 
  
  If you need to make a front space you can in-large the front plate hole and use another plate to attach the  ALPS(Like a large washer or cut a metal plate and paint it)then use the plate attached to the ALPS to cover the front plate hole.Hopefully height is not an issue.
  
 The POT i just installed is just temporary i'am thinking of using the ALPS or get a stepped attenuator.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

adtrance said:


> Very interesting to think about rolling the volume pot.
> 
> Not a lot of room to play with, in trying to keep the case stock.


 
 Yeah the POT is one of the most essential CRACK upgrade so it is for the LD..............IMO


----------



## forestitalia

Little Dot is back! With two new bigger resistors and two russian Voskhod *6ZH1P*-*EV.*
  
Well detailed but I miss the punch of the WE *408A*. 
  
*.*


----------



## i luvmusic 2

The most audible upgrade i've done to my LD 1+ is the Volume Pot.


----------



## adtrance

I only have my old ES integrated amp and my 2 week old LD 1+ to compare until my new Corda Jazz comes in a few days (hopefully in time for the weekend!).  Inside the LD, I've rolled the stock 6J1 to GE JAN 5654W and replaced the stock opamp to MUSES02.  Still waiting on the '73 pair and '87 pair of Voskhods and Yugo 6HM5's .  
  
 While I could easily hear an improvement with the tube upgrade, the opamp upgrade seems more subtle.  Music sounds smoother and by that I mean there's less sharp treble when I turn up the volume.  At low volumes, I'm not missing any detail and everything just sounds clearer and cleaner than where it started.  I'm hearing texture in bass notes I haven't noticed before.  I'm also breaking in brand new 325e at the same time, so I won't claim that the improvement simply comes from the amp/tubes/opamp burning in.  Everything just sounds better than before.
  
 I'm definitely interested in changing out the pot to an Alps Blue Velvet.  I'll need 1" of clearance and except for the red cap behind the existing pot, I'd say it would fit right in.  Hoping the pot contacts are plug and solder.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Will definitely upgrade the volume knob after I get my I+ back. The guy who sold tubes to me tell me cheap volume knobs are always a problem, but as I still have warranty on my I+, I couldn't bring myself to change it.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

The Solder lug spacing for the ALPS Blue should be standard it should fit on the PCB pods,If you can't shift the CAP slightly to fit the ALPS you can desolder the caps then used a solid wire to extend the CAP's leg so you can move it out of the way.But make sure that the  extended legs are shrink wrap and not to touch any other parts even better if you can put a HOT GLUE to keep it in place.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

williamleonhart said:


> Will definitely upgrade the volume knob after I get my I+ back. The guy who sold tubes to me tell me cheap volume knobs are always a problem, but as I still have warranty on my I+, I couldn't bring myself to change it.


 
 I think the Vendor meant  VOLUME POTENTIOMETER(POT) not the KNOB.


----------



## adtrance

i luvmusic 2 said:


> I think the Vendor meant  VOLUME POTENTIOMETER(POT) not the KNOB.


 

 Lol just the knob.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

Really WOW!


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

i luvmusic 2 said:


> I think the Vendor meant  VOLUME POTENTIOMETER(POT) not the KNOB.


 
 LOL if it were the knob I'd have replaced it a long time ago


----------



## i luvmusic 2

That POT definitely need upgrade....


----------



## saulidze

Hello!
 So first off all, im new to this forum, though ive been reeding it for a while now. Its a really nice forum with a lot of detailed information in it, thank you all for that 
 I am quite a big fan of good SQ in my music, i've been doing a lot of work in car audio systems, competing in car audio competitions (sound quality groups), then a year ago i got into indoor sound system world including headphone world 
 My main speaciality is sport, im an athlete and i spend a lot of time traveling. This summer i had to leave my country and fly to USA, to train there, in Detroit. Because my hunger for good quality is constantly growing (haha), i had to buy some decent pair of headphones. Did some research and decided to go with AT M50X, because of their low impedence, quite natural sound and travel capabilty. My source signal is samsung galaxy note 3, wich has not a bad DAC in it, so this set played quite good, for a month for me haha. The sound for me sounded a bit dead, sound was too mechanical, m50x by itself has kind a high mechanical highs and bigger lows, wich in my opinion were not controled that good, so overall the sound with my set was messy. I decided in need something, at least a better amp for a start. Did some reaserch and found this guy- Little Dot i+, read some good reviews for it, took some though and decided that i should give it a try.
 So today i got it, set it up and started it. Though i know i should give it some time to burn, but i gave it a little soundcheck. And i was quite surprised, the sound was different. Everything got clarity, sounds became seperate, second stage sounds became more clear, lows got mass and controle (not that much of it but still got it), sound stage got wider, though the m50x as wee know are closed back, still there is quite a change in it. Then there is the treble, i was sometimes quite irritated of m50x sharp and quite too mechanic highs, the overall sound of them was unnatrual (this was one of the main reasons i went with a tube amp). And with the amp it got a lot better, maybe a little to reduced but ill let the tubes first get some burn time, then make final decisions. 
 Overall, though the m50x are considered not to be in a need for an amp, i think its a good decision to pair it with a Little dot i+. I have some parts allready on the way- ne op amp (lm4562) and new tubes- voskhod 6zh1p. So later ill get a chance to compare before and after results. But right know ill listen to the Little dot with its stock parts, to get some info abot its sound.
 I hope my post will be somekind helpfull to people who are looking for a nice music inprovement for less money


----------



## ajuztam

Hi lads. Fitting an alps blue pot is not very hard but it's not straight replacement. I had to bend the pins and solder a wires. It is a very thigh fit but i can close the case no problem. I soldered wires from behind and filed solder joints so they don't interrupt fitment of the pot. I also put a bit of insulation tape to prevent shorting the pot's solder points with pcb. Everything is very tight fit but it can be done and case closed. I also had to shorten pot's rod so the knob is not sticking to far from the amp. I cut about 8mm of it. I attached photos to show the mod.

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  
  I also did few other mods:
  
 - replaced two 470uf 25v nichicon basic caps to Elna silmic II of the same value
 - replaced two nichicon 2200uf 25V caps with Panasonic FC caps 
 - swapped opamp with OPA627 (tried OPA2107, OPA2132, LT1364, LM4562, Stock and some from AD family)
 - swapped stock valvo tubes with WE408A matched pair.
 - RCA connectors replaced with CNC ones from USA.
 - replaced the mad blue led to red one to match rest of my gear
 - heat shrinks on all internal wiring to make it better looking.
 - solder joints redone with 4% silver audio grade solder.
  
 Near future mods:
  
 - c3g Siemens tubes
 - discrete opamp ( thinking of assembling one myself from kits), already made ones are mad prices.
 - 100nf caps on rectifier or integrated rectifier replaced with fast recovery diodes
 - 3x 100uf 200V caps (Can't find good ones to fit) any recommendations?
  
 After ~150h of burning I'm pleased with it's performance. There is no audible hum or buzz even at highest set gain and volume on my K702.
  
 if you have any mods on your mind please do not hesitate to share your ideas.
  
 Photos:


----------



## i luvmusic 2

That is nice!
 Did you noticed how  the soundstage opens up with your K702?
  
 The soundstage is the first thing i noticed after i replaced the stock pot i used Q701.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

ajuztam said:


> if you have any mods on your mind please do not hesitate to share your ideas.
> 
> Photos:


 
 how about replacing those electrolytic Caps with FILM CAPS but Installing a film caps requires you to use a larger chassis.


----------



## ajuztam

Which caps do you mean?
  
 The biggest difference i noticed after rolling OPA627 and two 470uf caps.


----------



## michaelkeeney

Fwiw I took Gibosi's advice on the MUSESS02, and have zero regrets. Although I don't have heavy experience in the world of audio hifi, I could immediately tell the difference. Yes, it's more $ than others, but I would say if you can do it, you won't be disappointed. It shipped very fast, too.

Edit: sorry, on my phone and " button didn't get hit. This was in response to the earlier coversation regarding opamps.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

ajuztam said:


> Which caps do you mean?
> 
> The biggest difference i noticed after rolling OPA627 and two 470uf caps.


 
 Something like these..............


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

After thinking it through, perhaps I'd wait until my warranty runs out to replace the pot and the opamp on my I+. I'm going to work overseas for 6 months anyway (and my I+ is in China awaiting repair).


----------



## adtrance

michaelkeeney said:


> Fwiw I took Gibosi's advice on the MUSESS02, and have zero regrets. Although I don't have heavy experience in the world of audio hifi, I could immediately tell the difference. Yes, it's more $ than others, but I would say if you can do it, you won't be disappointed. It shipped very fast, too.
> 
> Edit: sorry, on my phone and " button didn't get hit. This was in response to the earlier coversation regarding opamps.


 
 I've recently rolled to the Yugo 6HM5 and MUSES02 and through my 325e, things keep sounding better and better.  I do plan on swapping out the volume pot too (keeping the stock knob tho 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).
  
 None of the changes going from the stock 6J1 and opamp to this were anything that I would describe as tremendous, but some day I'll try all stock again to see if I notice a bigger change in sound.


----------



## michaelkeeney

adtrance said:


> I've recently rolled to the Yugo 6HM5 and MUSES02 and through my 325e, things keep sounding better and better.  I do plan on swapping out the volume pot too (keeping the stock knob tho
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Tremendous, no, but I felt that the highs were a little clearer, at least for me.  I'd been neurotically listening to the same album when I made the switch, and once the new MUSES02 was in, things just seemed better.


----------



## ajuztam

i luvmusic 2 said:


> Something like these..............



that would be something but lack of room in the case will propably stop me from replacing them. Now I'm thinking of getting a new, bigger case. For the moment I will replace the two 3.3uf 50v caps with ERO 1813 3.3uf 100v and further plan in getting rid of 3 crappy brown nichicons that are left.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

Depends on the Value of the CAPS but usually the Poly/Film caps are larger than the electrolytic so yeah you can't use the stock chassis.


----------



## ajuztam

Yesterday i added extra capacitors to psu part. Originally there were 2x nichicons  2200 each. I replaced them with 1800uf panasonics fc. To exceed the original level I added 470uf elna cerafines and extra 220uf panaconics. They can be removed easily in case if the sound is not good after burning. Now there is ~5000uf. I also soldered gold pins extracted from dip8 socket to those very weak transformer power cables. Now they will not break of the pcb every time i take the little dot apart. I'm looking forward to getting c3g's from siemens. I already got a mounting socket for them that i will attempt to make an adapter with. I looked at some post from other thread showing installation of c3g valves. I don't like the idea of an adapter on top of another. I have to come up with some sort of design so they don't stick out too much taking a lot from little dot's appearance. I love the little dot because of so many mods and tweaks that can be done to it. Great for somebody who can't afford 2k amp plus all it's mods that we would do anyway. It's like my maverick d1 DAC that i constantly upgrade. It's almost finished now.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

ajuztam said:


> Yesterday i added extra capacitors to psu part. Originally there were 2x nichicons  2200 each. I replaced them with 1800uf panasonics fc. To exceed the original level I added 470uf elna cerafines and extra 220uf panaconics. They can be removed easily in case if the sound is not good after burning. Now there is ~5000uf. I also soldered gold pins extracted from dip8 socket to those very weak transformer power cables. Now they will not break of the pcb every time i take the little dot apart. I'm looking forward to getting c3g's from siemens. I already got a mounting socket for them that i will attempt to make an adapter with. I looked at some post from other thread showing installation of c3g valves. I don't like the idea of an adapter on top of another. I have to come up with some sort of design so they don't stick out too much taking a lot from little dot's appearance. I love the little dot because of so many mods and tweaks that can be done to it. Great for somebody who can't afford 2k amp plus all it's mods that we would do anyway. It's like my maverick d1 DAC that i constantly upgrade. It's almost finished now.


 
 NICELY DONE!
  
 Are those Caps in AUDIO PATH?


----------



## tomb

i luvmusic 2 said:


> ajuztam said:
> 
> 
> > Yesterday i added extra capacitors to psu part. Originally there were 2x nichicons  2200 each. I replaced them with 1800uf panasonics fc. To exceed the original level I added 470uf elna cerafines and extra 220uf panaconics. They can be removed easily in case if the sound is not good after burning. Now there is ~5000uf. I also soldered gold pins extracted from dip8 socket to those very weak transformer power cables. Now they will not break of the pcb every time i take the little dot apart. I'm looking forward to getting c3g's from siemens. I already got a mounting socket for them that i will attempt to make an adapter with. I looked at some post from other thread showing installation of c3g valves. I don't like the idea of an adapter on top of another. I have to come up with some sort of design so they don't stick out too much taking a lot from little dot's appearance. I love the little dot because of so many mods and tweaks that can be done to it. Great for somebody who can't afford 2k amp plus all it's mods that we would do anyway. It's like my maverick d1 DAC that i constantly upgrade. It's almost finished now.
> ...


 
  
 He said, "psu part."  PSU = Power Supply Unit.  So, no.
  
 Depending on the design and implementation of the amplifier, upgrading the capacitors in a power supply can help.  It very rarely ever hurts.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

tomb said:


> i luvmusic 2 said:
> 
> 
> > ajuztam said:
> ...


 
 Sorry my bad i was caught up with the caps changes i forgot that PSU part.I would just BYPASS those instead of replacing them.


----------



## ajuztam

i luvmusic 2 said:


> Sorry my bad i was caught up with the caps changes i forgot that PSU part.I would just BYPASS those instead of replacing them.


 

 They will be sooner or later


----------



## i luvmusic 2

I tried replacing PS caps with my other amp and i did not noticed any audible changes how ever bypassing them i've noticed that when measuring the voltage with my DMM the reading stopped bouncing around by few milivolts like how it used to when it does not have the bypass caps.BTW i'am not an engineer so i could be wrong.


----------



## tomb

i luvmusic 2 said:


> I tried replacing PS caps with my other amp and i did not noticed any audible changes how ever bypassing them i've noticed that when measuring the voltage with my DMM the reading stopped bouncing around by few milivolts like how it used to when it does not have the bypass caps.BTW i'am not an engineer so i could be wrong.


 

 Additional capacitors can often help a power supply in reducing ripple.  I think the question in this case was whether audiophile-quality capacitors meant to be used in the signal path (Elna Cerafines) actually had a more beneficial effect in the PSU than superior power capacitors (Panasonic FC's or FM's).  It's impossible to tell in this case, because the poster used both.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

I do understand the ripple effect and I've gone from 10,000uf to 22,000uf still no audible effect and Bypass it with a nice film caps still no audible effect at least to my ears.IMO i would not bother with PS caps for this amp instead i will look into upgrading any  CAPS that are in the AUDIO path doesn't need to be those expensive Poly or Electrolytic Caps.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

BTW The only upgrade that i've done to my Ld 1+ is i replaced the Potentiometer due to it's channel imbalanced  and that is it.I have no plans on doing any cap rolling for now and for me it is very interesting to see someone rolling those CAPS makes me think of doing the same.IMHO this amp sound great the way it is specially if you are using the C3g's and you can manage to replace the POT.


----------



## tomb

i luvmusic 2 said:


> I do understand the ripple effect and I've gone from 10,000uf to 22,000uf still no audible effect and Bypass it with a nice film caps still no audible effect at least to my ears.IMO i would not bother with PS caps for this amp instead i will look into upgrading any  CAPS that are in the AUDIO path doesn't need to be those expensive Poly or Electrolytic Caps.


 

 No offense, but when we're talking about ripple in an audiophile power supply, none of it is _directly_ audible.  Instead, it shows up as higher distortion - particularly in IM.
  
 Ripple reduction in an audiophile power supply is concerned with extraneous AC in the *micro*volt values.  It can't even be measured directly with the best DMM's.  They don't measure AC down that low.  You need a specialized low-noise amplifier just to test for the ripple component in an audiophile power supply.  Yet, improvements in this regime are readily audible - but only by a cleaner sound, more free from distortion, etc.  It's not anything such as actually hearing the ripple, unless the amplifier performance is so decrepit that everything is directly audible.
  
 All that said, I can't disagree - particularly because I have no direct experience with this amp.  What you state may indeed be the case - upgrading components in the signal path may have the best effect.  If that's true, though, then the effect of the amp's existing components may be worse than the effects of a sub-standard power supply.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

tomb said:


> i luvmusic 2 said:
> 
> 
> > I do understand the ripple effect and I've gone from 10,000uf to 22,000uf still no audible effect and Bypass it with a nice film caps still no audible effect at least to my ears.IMO i would not bother with PS caps for this amp instead i will look into upgrading any  CAPS that are in the AUDIO path doesn't need to be those expensive Poly or Electrolytic Caps.
> ...


 
 No worries.


----------



## forestitalia

After some month with the Voskhod 6ZH1P-EV I switched to a pair of Yugoslavian 6HM5. The sound impact is impressive,  with jazz massive.
 Only with classical I think that the Voskhod are more precise.


----------



## adtrance

One of my Yugo 6HM5 tubes started glowing brightly when first turning on and developed a hum after a couple of days.  I had GE JAN5654W pair as a back up to replace them until the '73 Voskhod 6ZH1P-EV set came in a few days ago.  I never had time to really listen to the 6HM5 but these Voskhods are much funner to listen to than the GE.  Far more detail, as if the 12 - 14KHz were either rolled off on the GE or boosted on the Voskhods.  
  
 I ordered another Ei 6HM5 and hope to get another go at these.  For now tho, these Voskhods along with MUSES02 sound absolutely sublime through 325e Grado.


----------



## iamxLn

forestitalia said:


> After some month with the Voskhod 6ZH1P-EV I switched to a pair of Yugoslavian 6HM5. The sound impact is impressive,  with jazz massive.
> Only with classical I think that the Voskhod are more precise.




Do the Yugos have more bass impact?


----------



## iamxLn

now that i have the yugos on the way.. I'm curious to know what a good V shaped tube would be, I really want different flavors of tubes, but don't want a whole drawer full. I'd like one with impactful bass and sparkly highs.


----------



## adtrance

I wish I had more time on the 6HM5, but between the 6J1, GE JAN 5654W, and Voskhods, the GE seemed the most flat while the Voskhod had more of that V-sound with elevated treble (but not harsh at all).  Bass seemed the same, tho I'll need to re-compare after I've burned in the Voskhod pair for about the same amount of time as the GE pair - around 50 hours.


----------



## forestitalia

iamxln said:


> Do the Yugos have more bass impact?


 
 Sorry was away.
 I agree that bass is quite similar seems that all mids-bass are forward. With the  Voskhod I hear more separation of the instruments. Both are pleasants.


----------



## adtrance

'87 Voskhods came and even right out of the box sound more detailed and pleasant than the replacement 6HM5 tubes.  
  
 Perhaps the Ei tubes have a more traditional tube sound - rolled treble and thicker bass that some enjoy more.  
  
 For me the Voskhods check all the right boxes.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

IMO if you really want to make this amp sing/save some $$$$ in the long run get a C3g and the adapters.
  
 The $$$$ you are using to buy the EF91,92,95etc etc. tubes it will cost you more than just getting the C3g's/adapters some of those EF family tubes cost at least half the cost of C3g pair.


----------



## iamxLn

adtrance said:


> '87 Voskhods came and even right out of the box sound more detailed and pleasant than the replacement 6HM5 tubes.
> 
> Perhaps the Ei tubes have a more traditional tube sound - rolled treble and thicker bass that some enjoy more.
> 
> For me the Voskhods check all the right boxes.


 
 actually looking for a v shape tube with thicker bass and sparkly treble, but I think that's just wanting it all...


----------



## adtrance

i luvmusic 2 said:


> IMO if you really want to make this amp sing/save some $$$$ in the long run get a C3g and the adapters.
> 
> The $$$$ you are using to buy the EF91,92,95etc etc. tubes it will cost you more than just getting the C3g's/adapters some of those EF family tubes cost at least half the cost of C3g pair.


 
  
 Would you describe the improvements going from conventional tubes like the Voskhod to an exotic like the C3G?


----------



## gibosi

adtrance said:


> Would you describe the improvements going from conventional tubes like the Voskhod to an exotic like the C3G?


 
  
 The C3g and the more conventional tubes used in the LD are all pentodes. That is, they have two more grids than a triode and these extra grids are essential when being used in radio frequency circuits. However, when used in audio circuits, these two extra grids are superfluous at best and detrimental at worst and thus need to be nullified. Since we cannot open up the glass bottle and remove these extra grids, we electrically tie them to either the plate or/and cathode. And thus we convert a pentode into a triode. This process is often called "strapping", and the result is called a "triode-strapped pentode." Unfortunately, in almost all cases, strapping results in more distortion and a frequency response significantly less linear than when used as a pentode.
  
 The C3g is unique in that it was actually designed to be used as either a pentode or a triode. Even though the distortion increases and linearity decreases slightly when converted to a triode, it still measures very comparable to quality double triodes of the era, such as the 6SN7, when strapped.
  
 Thus a pair of C3gs, converted into triodes and installed into the LD, provide an SQ comparable to the best audio double triodes - think 6SN7, 6DJ8, 12AX7 and so forth. No other pentode can match it.
  
 That said, "best" is in the mind of the listener and some in this forum still prefer a pair of Voskhods. The only way to know for sure if these are for you is to try a pair.
  
 Cheers


----------



## i luvmusic 2

adtrance said:


> i luvmusic 2 said:
> 
> 
> > IMO if you really want to make this amp sing/save some $$$$ in the long run get a C3g and the adapters.
> ...


 
 To keep it short the C3g is better on everything that all conventional tubes does,at least to my ears this tube is the end game for me.


----------



## adtrance

Really good info, thanks!
  
 Something to keep in mind when time comes to further expanding the Little Dot 1+ (new volume pot, C3Gs, extenders, adapters).


----------



## _js_

So, I'm going to be getting a Little Dot I+ soon, and I've also got an LM4562 on the way, as well as some GE JAN5654W tubes.  I was curious about the NJM4556 high current (70mA) capable op amp.  I assume that since the tubes drive the op-amp and the op-amp drives the bipolar BD139 and BD140 to the output that there is no need for a higher current capable op amp, but despite people asking about the 4556 two or three times in this thread (at least--that's all I found with a search) no one has any reports of how swapping in this op amp works.  Looking at its characteristics, it seems like it should be fine to try, but if there's no need for high current, then there's no need to even try it.  But, people have tried just about every other op amp, including ones that really weren't designed for audio, so why not this one?  Because it wasn't easily available I assume?  Although JDS Labs had it for sale according to one post.  And digikey currently has it, as well as Mouser.
  
 Personally, I think the LM4562 is already overkill in terms of audio fidelity, and more importantly, was actually _suggested by the designer_ (David  Zhezhe) as one to try.  Moreover, it must have been specified in one of the prototypes or something because it is listed on the thread about the Little Dot Amps and their specs.  In the table, the I+ has the LM4562 listed as the output stage, despite the fact that the MC33078 is the stock op amp.
  
 In any case, if someone could please confirm that the real output current is supplied by the BD139 and BD140, that would be great.  I would be very surprised if this were not the case, as the stock op amp only puts out like 35 or 40 mA max per channel and the I+ says it can drive a 32 ohm load to 800mW.  Since Power = i^2 * R, that means an output current of 158 mA.  Way more than any of the op amps are capable of, including the high current NJM4556.
  
 OK.  Thanks in advance for any info that anyone can give me!


----------



## gibosi

For an authoritative answer I suggest you take this question to Little Dot directly:
  
 little.tube@gmail.com
  
 I had a similar question regarding the MUSES01 and had a reply the next day.


----------



## iamxLn

just got the yugos today, they're burning a lot brighter than the 408As.
  
 Initial impressions vs the 408A is that they have more/tighter bass and a smaller sound stage.
  
 edit:
  
 you lose some air and treble extension vs the 408, but the yugos do sound slightly more detailed and do have more bottom end so they're more satisfying in that regard. This could change with burn in, but they've been running for about 4 hours at this point.
  
 Not sure I would say they're better, just a slightly different sound.


----------



## adtrance

I agree that they're rolled off in the treble and has thicker bass compared to the Voskhods in my case.  I do like their sound on my 325e, makes me want a tube selector to bounce betwen the Ei and Voskhod pairs.


----------



## forestitalia

Is important the opa you use too. Eg. the Yugo with the lm4562 are detailed, with the 2111 are very different.


----------



## iamxLn

I'm using the 4562, they're detailed but the treble definitely lost a lot of air and some sparkle vs the 408a.

Does the vosh regain some air and soundstage????


----------



## adtrance

I haven't heard the 408a so I can't compare it to the Ei 6HM5.
  
 The Voskhods sound more detailed and have more sparkle than the Ei tubes, while the Ei tubes have a more laid back, thicker sound than the Voskhods.


----------



## iamxLn

Right on, thanks! Maybe I'll pick up a set and have the best of both worlds without having to open up the bottom.


----------



## adtrance

At about $12-15 a pair, why not give it a shot.  Added bonus of the Ei tubes is that they're taller and put out more of that nice, amber glow.


----------



## drofeel71

Hi all. Just wondered if anyone can help. Is the muses01 opamp usable with the 1+?
Ok scratch that. My bad should have searched the thread. It seems it is fine and pretty good too.


----------



## musaji

Hi, I have i+ with upgraded EF92 tubes (came with the amp) and I also recently put in *OPA2107AP. Now I know its not the best opamp out there but I had already placed an order for them before coming across this thread. Anyways, I will upgrade them sometime in the future. I have it currently paired with Topping D20 and the sound is actually quite harsh. I am beginning to think that it doesn't pair well with that particular DAC (its a bit bright and in your face and narrow). I also sometimes hear a bit of noise when using my philips SHP9500 which happen to be quite detailed. So I am wondering if its this opamp or my surroundings. *
  
*Another question I have for you folks is whether this amp will be able to drive HD650 or would I need to get something else. Thanks!*


----------



## adtrance

My HD600 sounds great through the LD 1+ and generally run it at 30-40% for normal listening on the standard amp-gain setting.


----------



## _js_

OK, please forgive me if this has been covered before--I searched this thread a number of times using the search function and different combinations of words, and I've read many dozens of pages of this thread (but not all 149 of them)--and the best advice I have seen so far on how to remove the op amp is to just grab it with your fingers or carefully with pliers.  I normally use IC pullers for this task, but there are components on either end of the op amp that leave little to no room to slip IC puller tips in and underneath the op amp!  I am reluctant to use pliers on the pin sides of the op amp.
  
 Some detailed advice on swapping out the op amp would be much appreciated!
  
 On another note, got my LD I+ yesterday and installed the GE JAN5654W tubes right away--didn't bother with the stock 6J1's at all.  I also took off the bottom of the case and checked to make sure the jumpers were all configured correctly--which they were since I ordered the base LD I+.  Those screws really are made of crap metal, aren't they?
  
 Anyway, even without any burn in, I think I'm liking the synergy with my Grado RS2e's.  I only listened for about 30 minutes, though, and at a very modest volume, so time will tell.
  
 A couple other questions:
  
 1. Do people really not plug and unplug headphones while the unit is on?  That seems like a real pain!  I'm pretty much just ignoring that.  I just make sure that the volume is all the way down when I plug and unplug.  Has anyone ever actually run into any issues by doing this?
  
 2. How important is it to have exactly matched tubes?  I've also been ignoring that.  I think $36 + $4 for shipping for two Voshkods from Yen Audio is *cough* a little steep.  I bought 5 NOS GE JAN5654W's with all the same date codes for like $10 shipped.  I also got two 6ZH1P-EV Voshkods from overseas for like $13 shipped.  Both sellers guaranteed the tubes to be good and will refund if I'm not satisfied.  And I just grabbed two GE's at random and installed them and I listened carefully for channel mismatch, and nada.  No problem.  If--as I've read--the tubes really are driving the op amp, then gain differences won't be a big deal, I wouldn't think.  I wouldn't think you'd need precisely matched tubes.  But I'm wondering what people's experience has been?
  
 Thanks in advance for any help!


----------



## adtrance

I used a paper clip with the tip bent to get some delicate leverage under the old opamp and gently wiggle it out of the socket.  The pins on my MUSES02 were very flexible and I was afraid I would crush them under the pressure of trying to push it into its new home.  After carefully lining up the pins to the corresponding socket and applying steady, even pressure, the new chip went in without drama.  I took my time and was glad I did.
  
 I turn the volume down to zero when swapping out my headphones, but never bother to turn it off and on between swaps.  No issues over the dozens of times I swapped between my headphones.
  
 It is my understanding that the tubes do not need to be carefully matched, however! I did have channel imbalance on the Ei 6HM5 tubes so imbalance issues can and does happen.
  
 I picked up an '87 pair and '73 pair of Voskhods for under $15 per pair.  I would order the Voskhods as my favorite followed by the GE pair, and then the 6HM5's.  They're all great, but if I had to pick an order, that would be it.  Voskhods have the most detail to me while the GE JAN's have the most neutral balance and 6HM5's have a mellow, richer sound.  The Ei tubes are also much taller and give out more of that beautiful glow.


----------



## _js_

adtrance said:


> I used a paper clip with the tip bent to get some delicate leverage under the old opamp and gently wiggle it out of the socket.  The pins on my MUSES02 were very flexible and I was afraid I would crush them under the pressure of trying to push it into its new home.  After carefully lining up the pins to the corresponding socket and applying steady, even pressure, the new chip went in without drama.  I took my time and was glad I did.
> 
> I turn the volume down to zero when swapping out my headphones, but never bother to turn it off and on between swaps.  No issues over the dozens of times I swapped between my headphones.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks adtrance!  This was very helpful.


----------



## _js_

Oh, also, one more thing.  Is there a definitive answer on the question of the NAME of this thing?  Is it the ONE PLUS or the EYE PLUS?  I see it both ways.  Obviously, capital "I" is the same as Roman Numeral ONE, so that's probably what's going on, but it still seems confusing and strange.  No more so than the naming of all their other amps, though, I've read.


----------



## adtrance

I think it's both- Roman numeral 1 is I. Like the MKIII or IV, etc. Little Dot I+ or 1+.


----------



## gibosi

_js_ said:


> OK, please forgive me if this has been covered before--I searched this thread a number of times using the search function and different combinations of words, and I've read many dozens of pages of this thread (but not all 149 of them)--and the best advice I have seen so far on how to remove the op amp is to just grab it with your fingers or carefully with pliers.  I normally use IC pullers for this task, but there are components on either end of the op amp that leave little to no room to slip IC puller tips in and underneath the op amp!  I am reluctant to use pliers on the pin sides of the op amp.


 
  
 I use an 8-pin gold solderless IC socket as an extension to make it easier to insert and extract op-amps. Insert the op-amp into the extension and then push the extension into the circuit board socket. And it very nicely elevates the op- amp so that you can easily grab it with your fingers to pull it out.
  
 Since a picture is worth a thousand words, this is what I am talking about:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/20PCS-8-PIN-GOLD-DIP-IC-BASE-CRADLE-SOCKET-PANEL-ADAPTER-SWAPPING-SOLDERLESS-/231081762499?


----------



## gibosi

> 1. Do people really not plug and unplug headphones while the unit is on?  That seems like a real pain!  I'm pretty much just ignoring that.  I just make sure that the volume is all the way down when I plug and unplug.  Has anyone ever actually run into any issues by doing this?


 
  
 Since the 1+ has an SS output stage, it isn't really necessary to plug and unplug the headphones.
  
 That said, if you think that you might eventually get an all-tube amp, this is an excellent habit to develop. If tubes are going to arc and short-out, it typically happens the instant power is turned on and/or off. And since the amp's power tubes are connected directly to your headphones, very bad things can and do happen. And further, to save wear and tear on the amp's headphone jack, I have a 2-ft headphone extention cable always plugged into the amp, and then connect and disconnect the headphones from the extension cable. But again, it isn't necessary with the 1+, but still, it is a good idea.


----------



## _js_

gibosi said:


> > 1. Do people really not plug and unplug headphones while the unit is on?  That seems like a real pain!  I'm pretty much just ignoring that.  I just make sure that the volume is all the way down when I plug and unplug.  Has anyone ever actually run into any issues by doing this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Oh, but see, this is what I normally always do. Power things up with volume all the way down. Plug in headphones, listen, volume down, unplug, power down. Of course, i don't bother with this with the iPhone, but with Duet or my Korg and any other audio gear. Don't want power up or down transients on my headphones!


BUT, this is the opposite of what the LD users manual says and the opposite of what other posts in this thread have claimed. Connect enerything, then power up the LD. I don't like this. Plus, if you want to switch headphones, it's a royal pain. Apparently it is not only not necessary but is bad advice to boot.


----------



## beekermartin

I haven't been here in awhile.  I have been using the Little Dot I+ with Voskhod 6J1P tubes and 2107 op amp with a pair of Q701s.  The combination still sounds awesome but I stumbled across this thread again and now I am thinking about trying a new set of tubes.   
  
 Any current recommendations to try with the Q701s?  I mainly listen to rock music: Led Zepplin, Pink Floyd, NIN, Bod Dylan, etc.  
  
 I don't have any complaints about my current setup.  In fact it still amazes me how great it sounds.  I figured I would post here to see if anyone can recommend a set of tubes that might sound even better than the Voskhods.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

My setup is OP 2107 and C3g i love it for my Q701(my end game) another setup i consider is Yugoslavian 6HM5(Plug and play) or 6SN7(the 6SN7 need adapters) and Chatham 6AS7G(this 6AS7G setup need adapter and External Power Supply).


----------



## beekermartin

Thanks for the response i luvmusic 2!  I really appreciate it.
  
 BTW, what is a C3g?
  
 Any other tube recommendations for the Q701's?


----------



## iamxLn

just another update after listening to the yugos for a few days now, they're extremely satisfying when listening to anything with bass that's supposed to slam. IAMX sounds fantastic. I do miss the soundstage on the 408a's for more indie/acoustic stuff though.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

gibosi said:


> The C3g and the more conventional tubes used in the LD are all pentodes. That is, they have two more grids than a triode and these extra grids are essential when being used in radio frequency circuits. However, when used in audio circuits, these two extra grids are superfluous at best and detrimental at worst and thus need to be nullified. Since we cannot open up the glass bottle and remove these extra grids, we electrically tie them to either the plate or/and cathode. And thus we convert a pentode into a triode. This process is often called "strapping", and the result is called a "triode-strapped pentode." Unfortunately, in almost all cases, strapping results in more distortion and a frequency response significantly less linear than when used as a pentode.
> 
> The C3g is unique in that it was actually designed to be used as either a pentode or a triode. Even though the distortion increases and linearity decreases slightly when converted to a triode, it still measures very comparable to quality double triodes of the era, such as the 6SN7, when strapped.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


beekermartin said:


> Thanks for the response i luvmusic 2!  I really appreciate it.
> 
> BTW, what is a C3g?
> 
> Any other tube recommendations for the Q701's?


 
 ^^^^^^Please read gibosi's Post^^^^^^
 Tubes i used to Roll for the Q701>>>Any 12AU7,Chatham 6AS7G,Tung-Sol,Sylvania 6SN7 but since i have the C3g i don't use those anymore.


----------



## _js_

So, in case anyone is interested, I measured the output impedance of the LD I+, and it is so low it is difficult to measure! Which is really great!

I put a 440Hz sine wave into the inputs via my iphone and a signal gen app. I had the volume maxed, but forgot to remove my volume limit which I had set. I put the LD volume knob at about 3/4 and got:

208.5 mV open circuit.

Then I put a 50.3 ohm resistor in as load and got 208.0 mV.

If you do the circuit analysis, you get . . .

*0.12 ohms*

However assuming the worst case scenario, error-wise, and we round the open circuit voltage up a tenth of a mV and the loaded voltafe down a tenth, we still get .17 ohms.

So, definitely less than .2 ohms, which is outstanding.


----------



## adtrance

Which tubes have you tried so far, and do you have a set that you like over another at this point?


----------



## iamxLn

Anyone tried both Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV and ej1p ev? I can't find the ezh1p for under 40 shipped


----------



## gibosi

iamxln said:


> Anyone tried both Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV and ej1p ev? I can't find the ezh1p for under 40 shipped


 
  
 Well, there are the two common ways to represent the Russian characters in English:  6Ж1П
  
 Some write 6J1P and some 6ZH1P. Same tube.
  
 So I think EZH1P is a typo... But maybe I am wrong....


----------



## musaji

i recently acquired Yulong D100 DAC which comes with an amazing headphone amp as well. Comparing it to my little tube that is hooked up to the DAC, the sound is not any better. I am thinking of getting rid of my little dot+ unless someone can suggest an improvement to best the DAC's amp. I currently have the udpated EF92 tubes and *OPA2107A opamp. *


----------



## drofeel71

musaji said:


> i recently acquired Yulong D100 DAC which comes with an amazing headphone amp as well. Comparing it to my little tube that is hooked up to the DAC, the sound is not any better. I am thinking of getting rid of my little dot+ unless someone can suggest an improvement to best the DAC's amp. I currently have the udpated EF92 tubes and [COLOR=333333]*OPA2107A opamp. *[/COLOR]




I'm running the EF92 tubes but am using the muses01 opamp. Lovely creamy sound to my ears. Might be just what your looking for. Was using them with the opa2107a prior to that.


----------



## musaji

drofeel71 said:


> I'm running the EF92 tubes but am using the muses01 opamp. Lovely creamy sound to my ears. Might be just what your looking for. Was using them with the opa2107a prior to that.


 
 I have thought about getting muses01, but thought they better pair up with Voshkods. How would you differentiate the sound between opa2107a and muses01? Thanks!


----------



## drofeel71

musaji said:


> I have thought about getting muses01, but thought they better pair up with Voshkods. How would you differentiate the sound between opa2107a and muses01? Thanks!



I have found that the clarity and detail is astounding. Not got any Voshkods I'm afraid so can't compare. But sounds lovely to my ears. Just wish I could warrant the price if the muses02. But for now I'm quite content.


----------



## beachpea

I have a tube compatibility question for use with my LD1+. 

I have a pair of NOS Russian 6J3P-E tubes I'm afraid I've mistakenly purchased for this amp. From research I've done, these tubes appear to belong to the EF96 family, not EF91, EF92, or EF95, as prescribed for the LD1+. Can anyone tell me if these are compatible or incompatible tubes? If compatible, which internal jumper settings do they require?

Many thanks!


----------



## gibosi

beachpea said:


> I have a tube compatibility question for use with my LD1+.
> 
> I have a pair of NOS Russian 6J3P-E tubes I'm afraid I've mistakenly purchased for this amp. From research I've done, these tubes appear to belong to the EF96 family, not EF91, EF92, or EF95, as prescribed for the LD1+. Can anyone tell me if these are compatible or incompatible tubes? If compatible, which internal jumper settings do they require?
> 
> Many thanks!


 
  
 The 6J3P (EF96 / 6AG5) has the same pinout as the EF95, so it is compatible. Long ago, I tried a pair of Sylvania 6AG5WA and they were not good. lol


----------



## beachpea

Thanks for the reply and information about the 6J3P-E tubes. I tried them in my LD1+ and they immediately started humming quietly but perceptibly. The hum remained the same at all volumes, so I cleaned the tube pins which resulted in slightly less hum. Perhaps with time they'll quiet down, but their sound is only okay, not great. Perhaps that will improve, too. The good news, I guess, is that they weren't expensive....
  
 Are there other factors besides a tube's pinout that affect tube compatibility?
  
 Thanks again!


----------



## beachpea

For a visual, these are the 6J3P-E tubes in question.


----------



## gibosi

beachpea said:


> Thanks for the reply and information about the 6J3P-E tubes. I tried them in my LD1+ and they immediately started humming quietly but perceptibly. The hum remained the same at all volumes, so I cleaned the tube pins which resulted in slightly less hum. Perhaps with time they'll quiet down, but their sound is only okay, not great. Perhaps that will improve, too. The good news, I guess, is that they weren't expensive....
> 
> Are there other factors besides a tube's pinout that affect tube compatibility?


 
  
 New tubes are often a bit noisy, with a bit of hum, but typically, they will quiet down after 20 hours, or so.
  
 When considering which tubes to try as drivers, two factors are most important. One is pin-out. But sometimes with a little creativity, we can compensate for that. For example, 6AU6 and 6AV6. And the second is heater current. The LD is limited to tubes that draw about 0.45 Amps.
  
 A lot of this work has already been done and summarized in the main little dot tube rolling thread, page 77:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/1140#post_9392055


----------



## iamxLn

just ordered the voskhods, hopefully will have in two weeks! found a matched pair for 12 bucks from 1973


----------



## adtrance

I listened to the '73 for about a week before I swapped them for '87 (both Voskhod pairs).  I can't tell the difference.


----------



## XipeTotec

Hi all,
 excuse me if I go a little off-topic but I have a question:
 i am looking for a new entry-level tube amplifier for my earphones (beyerdynamic dt880 250ohm) and I am undecided between this Little Dot I+ and the Little Dot MKII.
 Can someone tell me pro and cons of the two?
 Thank you and apologies,


----------



## gibosi

xipetotec said:


> excuse me if I go a little off-topic but I have a question:
> i am looking for a new entry-level tube amplifier for my earphones (beyerdynamic dt880 250ohm) and I am undecided between this Little Dot I+ and the Little Dot MKII.
> Can someone tell me pro and cons of the two?


 
  
 Generally speaking, the LD 1+, with an op-amp output stage, would be better for low-Z headphones. And the LD MKII, with a vacuum tube output stage, would be better for high-Z headphones.


----------



## musaji

Can someone suggest a good op-amp and tube combo to pair with Philips Fidelio X1s? I just got the headphones and they sound very bassy (and somewhat muddy) when driven through my Yulong D100 built-amp headphone amp, while my little dot tames the bass somewhat (just a bit). I want to love my new X1s but I am just not digging their sonic signature compared to my other headphones. Thanks!


----------



## gibosi

I have never heard the Philips X1....  Anyway, I seem to remember that you have the OPA2107AP and Mullard EF92? And I assume you want less bass? If so, the MUSES01 may be a good choice. And again, the tall-bottle 6HM5 are cheap and well worth a try.
  
 In the end, everyone has different ears and different gear. No one can tell you the best combination for your ears and gear. We can offer a few suggestions, but that is all we can do. The best way is for you take the time to roll through a number of op-amps and tubes to discover which combinations hit the sweet spot for you.


----------



## iamxLn

voskhods finally here! and i pulled the trigger on some dt880 pro 250's that come tomorrow


----------



## beekermartin

I am currently using my Little Dot with Q701's.  I love the combo but I was thinking about grabbing a pair of Sennheiser.  I have a pair of HD280s that I use mainly on my PC for gaming.  I've tried them with the Little Dot and they sound ok but I prefer open headphones for listening to music.  
  
 Since the HD600/650s are high ohm and work better with say a Woo Audio amp I was thinking about trying the HD-598s.  Has anyone here used the little dot with 598's?


----------



## nojwe

beekermartin said:


> I am currently using my Little Dot with Q701's.  I love the combo but I was thinking about grabbing a pair of Sennheiser.  I have a pair of HD280s that I use mainly on my PC for gaming.  I've tried them with the Little Dot and they sound ok but I prefer open headphones for listening to music.
> 
> Since the HD600/650s are high ohm and work better with say a Woo Audio amp I was thinking about trying the HD-598s.  Has anyone here used the little dot with 598's?




The LD can easily drive my HD650 and my T1 (600 ohms). I rarely have the volume past 10 o'clock.


----------



## beekermartin

I am sure it can drive them but is the LD known for working best with low impedance headphones?  That is why I figured the 598s would be a better fit than the 600/650s.  Plus the 598s are cheaper!


----------



## iamxLn

voskhods with the dt880 is not a great pairing


----------



## musaji

Is it because 


iamxln said:


> voskhods with the dt880 is not a great pairing


 
 Is it because voskhods are bright?


----------



## iamxLn

Yeah. And in all honesty I kind of appreciate a bright sound. I'm going to give the yugos a go tonight.


----------



## musaji

A quick help needed here. I just got my voskhods pair that were titled as '*J1P-EV 6ZH1P-EV EF95 6F32 6AK7 TUBE 09-85 GOLDEN GRID VOSKHOD'.*
  
 I am not sure how to set the jumpers for this tube. I currently have upgraded EF92s. According to the little dot documentation, the following jumper settings are possible. I am confused if its the 2nd or 3rd setting that I need to use. 
  
*To use WE408A tubes: *
 1. K1 and K2 set to the side of the “WE408A” text
 2. Make sure the jumper caps are removed from J1 and J2 (open circuit)
  
*To use 6JI, 6AK5, 5654, WE403A/B, etc: *
 1. K1 and K2 set to the side of the “6JI” text
 2. Make sure the jumper caps are removed from J1 and J2 (open circuit)
  
*To use EF91, EF92, CV131, CV138, etc: *
 1. K1 and K2 set to the side of the “6JI” text
 2. Make sure the jumpers caps are in place over both J1 and J2 (short circuit)


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Guys I have something to ask: how do you unplug headphones from the LD I+? The manual says turn off the amp first, but each time I do that (turn off or turn on when the hp are plugged in), there's a crackling sound going through my cans (even when the volume is at minimum).


----------



## gibosi

musaji said:


> A quick help needed here. I just got my voskhods pair that were titled as '*J1P-EV 6ZH1P-EV EF95 6F32 6AK7 TUBE 09-85 GOLDEN GRID VOSKHOD'.*
> 
> I am not sure how to set the jumpers for this tube. I currently have upgraded EF92s. According to the little dot documentation, the following jumper settings are possible. I am confused if its the 2nd or 3rd setting that I need to use.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The Voshkods are equivalent to 6AK5, so use that setting.


----------



## gibosi

williamleonhart said:


> Guys I have something to ask: how do you unplug headphones from the LD I+? The manual says turn off the amp first, but each time I do that (turn off or turn on when the hp are plugged in), there's a crackling sound going through my cans (even when the volume is at minimum).


 
  
 Personally, I always unplug the headphones before turning the amp off. It is safer for ears and cans this way, and it certainly doesn't hurt the amp.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Thanks @gibosi , you've been extremely helpful to us 
  
 So I guess now I can safely return to my old practice.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Oh and I have another question: when I use the I+ to drive high-imp cans (like the K612 or HD600), should I change the gain settings on the board too? Or are the gain settings only for tube rolling?


----------



## gibosi

williamleonhart said:


> Oh and I have another question: when I use the I+ to drive high-imp cans (like the K612 or HD600), should I change the gain settings on the board too? Or are the gain settings only for tube rolling?


 
  
 The gain setting is used to match the amp to different headphones. It has nothing to do with tube rolling. Generally speaking:
  
 Low Gain - low impedance and/or high sensitivity headphones
  
 High Gain - high impedance and/or low sensitivity headphones
  
 When using high-Z cans, I suggest you try both high and low gain and decide for yourself which setting is best.


----------



## iamxLn

i prefer the low setting for my 250 ohm dt 880's for what it's worth


----------



## i luvmusic 2

I don't like my DT880 600R with the  LD 1+ (high gain) it sound thin and bright.
  
 The 250R might be better with this 1+ however the 1+ it sound amazing with my Q7XX.


----------



## musaji

gibosi said:


> The Voshkods are equivalent to 6AK5, so use that setting.


 
 Thanks. Just set them up. Definitely clearer and a fuller than my upgraded EF92s. My little Dot is now on par with the built-amp of D100.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

gibosi said:


> The gain setting is used to match the amp to different headphones. It has nothing to do with tube rolling. Generally speaking:
> 
> Low Gain - low impedance and/or high sensitivity headphones
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks. Actually after looking at the manual more carefully I found that J3 and J4 are for gain setting (for headphones), while J1 J2 are for tubes.


----------



## rovopio

gibosi said:


> I found the stock MC33078 to be congested and swapped it out almost immediately.
> 
> The OPA2107 was much better, But the highs seemed to be somewhat rolled off, and the mids were almost shouty.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Did you tried the OPA627AP gibosi?
 Do you still remember the general impression of them in comparison to the OPA2107AP?


----------



## gibosi

rovopio said:


> Did you tried the OPA627AP gibosi?
> Do you still remember the general impression of them in comparison to the OPA2107AP?


 
  
 I did not try the 627 and so I cannot comment on the sound. Since the MUSES02 has no deficiencies to my ears, once I put it in, I have not felt the need to try any others. But perhaps others have tried this opamp and are willing share their impressions?


----------



## rovopio

gibosi said:


> I did not try the 627 and so I cannot comment on the sound. Since the MUSES02 has no deficiencies to my ears, once I put it in, I have not felt the need to try any others. But perhaps others have tried this opamp and are willing share their impressions?


 
  
 It's fine. I think I'm going to get the OPA2107 you recommended. By the way, should I get one or two of them? According to my backtrack search, there are some opamps where I should buy two of them to work or something? How about the opa2107?


----------



## gibosi

rovopio said:


> It's fine. I think I'm going to get the OPA2107 you recommended. By the way, should I get one or two of them? According to my backtrack search, there are some opamps where I should buy two of them to work or something? How about the opa2107?


 
  
 Fortunately, the 2107 is a dual opamp, that is two channels, so only one is required.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Pardon my ignorance, but how do I determine the amount of gain I'm having with my tubes? Or is the gain by the LD I+ solely determine by the J3 and J4 jumpers? I remember the guy selling me my tubes saying the Mullards CV4010 being high gain or something.


----------



## gibosi

williamleonhart said:


> Pardon my ignorance, but how do I determine the amount of gain I'm having with my tubes? Or is the gain by the LD I+ solely determine by the J3 and J4 jumpers? I remember the guy selling me my tubes saying the Mullards CV4010 being high gain or something.


 
  
 In the LD 1+, the drivers are configured as cathode followers, and therefore, provide a gain of about 1, regardless of which tubes you use. So swapping tubes will not not change the gain of the amp. This is different than the LD II, III and IV, where the drivers actually drive output tubes and changing drivers can change the gain of the amp.
  
 So yes, the only way you can change the gain of the LD 1+ is through the use of J3 and J4.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

So by default the I+ already provides 4.35X gain... No wonder it clipped on my ODAC RCA.


----------



## gibosi

williamleonhart said:


> So by default the I+ already provides 4.35X gain... No wonder it clipped on my ODAC RCA.


 
  
 Hopefully, someone who understands this better than I will chime in here. But 4.35 (or 3.5 according to the online manual) doesn't sound all that high to me?


----------



## gkmackey

I use Western Electric 408A in my LD 1+ and I got them on ebay for $15.38 total. I am very proud of that deal because I just checked and people are asking up to $68 for them right now on ebay. They sound warm sweet to me. I cannot wait to get my Hifiman HE-400s when they are available. I have a Fiio X3 and use the line-out into my LD 1+ for what sounds pretty good to my old ears. Cheers!


----------



## Arsis

gkmackey said:


> I use Western Electric 408A in my LD 1+ and I got them on ebay for $15.38 total. I am very proud of that deal because I just checked and people are asking up to $68 for them right now on ebay. They sound warm sweet to me. I cannot wait to get my Hifiman HE-400s when they are available. I have a Fiio X3 and use the line-out into my LD 1+ for what sounds pretty good to my old ears. Cheers!


+1 on the WE408A. Love them!


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

gibosi said:


> Hopefully, someone who understands this better than I will chime in here. But 4.35 (or 3.5 according to the online manual) doesn't sound all that high to me?


 
 As far as I know my ODAC has an output of 2V, which means the LD will output about 7V (yep 3.5x gain is right, I must have been using the phone to type the previous message). That seems to make the I+ clip, resulting in the jitter noises that I had. When I turn down the ODAC to half its volume (in Windows), the I+ gives perfect sound as usual.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

gkmackey said:


> I use Western Electric 408A in my LD 1+ and I got them on ebay for $15.38 total. I am very proud of that deal because I just checked and people are asking up to $68 for them right now on ebay. They sound warm sweet to me. I cannot wait to get my Hifiman HE-400s when they are available. I have a Fiio X3 and use the line-out into my LD 1+ for what sounds pretty good to my old ears. Cheers!


 
 That's half the price that I'd have to pay (for a pair) in Singapore. Still I feel OK since that's included shipping, taxes and everything else.
  
 I'm currently having Siemens and Mullards, and they also sound very sweet. Now I really wonder if I should buy the WE408A too


----------



## rovopio

Hiya...
  
 My LD i+ just arrived. I'd like to ask a question to everybody here... I don't get a paper invoice from David. Is that normal?
 The manuals for LD i+ stated that warranty claims need to be accompanied by proof of purchase. I only have PP screenshot as of now.
  
 I did ask him for Digital Invoice scan a week ago while waiting for shipping and on that e-Mail while he answered my other questions, he didn't reply to my request on asking for Digital Invoice. I figured at the time, maybe he didn't do Digital Invoice request, and I can always scan the paper by myself when the LD i+ arrived but... apparently I didn't get a paper invoice either.
  
 Is this normal or did you guys not got a Paper Invoice as well and only have Paypal as your payment proof?
  
 2) Anybody here got a noisy stock tubes? My Grado hisses when I play them through the Stock Tube. Anybody knows a way to clean the stock tube without having to buy DeoxIT?
 The only DeoxIT dealer in the country jack up the prices so high it goes at $55 a can. I'm not going to buy that at this moment, that's like half the amplifier price.


----------



## MunkyOne

rovopio said:


> Hiya...
> 
> My LD i+ just arrived. I'd like to ask a question to everybody here... I don't get a paper invoice from David. Is that normal?
> The manuals for LD i+ stated that warranty claims need to be accompanied by proof of purchase. I only have PP screenshot as of now.
> ...


 

 Hi,
  
 I can't comment much regarding the invoice, as I purchased my LD1+ elsewhere.  However, assuming you have proof of the order along with proof that you contacted David about the missing paper invoice, then I expect that David would be happy to accommodate a warranty claim.  From what I have read on various forums, David is an honourable man.  The LD1+ is an excellent little amp and a fairly robust design.  You are very unlikely to need a a warranty claim.
  
 As for tube noise; any new tube can be noisy.  Usually the noise (typically hum and hiss) will disappear with use.  This is not unusual with tubes, as many here will testify.   You really need to let the stock tubes settle-in, which could be 10-20 (sometimes more) hours of playing.  Which tubes did you order your  LD1+ with?
  
 Tube pins may be cleaned (gently) with any good electrical contact cleaner.  I use an ordinary electrical contact spray with good results. 
  
 Hope this helps.


----------



## gkmackey

I just installed a set of WE 408A what is the amount of "break-in" time for tubes? Do I need to have the LD +1 connected to headphones to do this? Many thanks in advance.


----------



## gibosi

gkmackey said:


> I just installed a set of WE 408A what is the amount of "break-in" time for tubes? Do I need to have the LD +1 connected to headphones to do this? Many thanks in advance.


 
  
 In my experience, anywhere from 20 to 50 hours is pretty typical. That said, unless they don't sound all that good out of the box, it is certainly not necessary to run them unattended for hours at a time. Just listen to your music and enjoy.
  
 But if you want to burn them in by running them unattended for hours at a time, then yes, Little Dot recommends that headphones should always be attached when the amp is in use. I use a $5 pair of IEMs when running the amp unattended.


----------



## gkmackey

gibosi said:


> In my experience, anywhere from 20 to 50 hours is pretty typical. That said, unless they don't sound all that good out of the box, it is certainly not necessary to run them unattended for hours at a time. Just listen to your music and enjoy.
> 
> But if you want to burn them in by running them unattended for hours at a time, then yes, Little Dot recommends that headphones should always be attached when the amp is in use. I use a $5 pair of IEMs when running the amp unattended.


 

 That bro. I really appreciate the information.


----------



## iamxLn

report in when you get those hifiman so we can hear how you like it, i found the 408a to have a MASSIVE sound stage for the mad dogs


----------



## rovopio

munkyone said:


> Hi,
> 
> As for tube noise; any new tube can be noisy.  Usually the noise (typically hum and hiss) will disappear with use.  This is not unusual with tubes, as many here will testify.   You really need to let the stock tubes settle-in, which could be 10-20 (sometimes more) hours of playing.  Which tubes did you order your  LD1+ with?
> 
> ...


 
  
 My LD i+ comes with the cheapest 6JI tubes.
  
 Can you recommend any electrical contact spray brand for me to buy? I've never used one (nor see one) and when I went to the local Ace Hardware and ask the employee, he didn't understand what I was saying.
  
 I just google'd "electrical contact spray" just now and the first few results was wd-40 with yellow cap "_Specialist Electrical Contact Cleaner_".
 I have the normal wd-40 red cap at my place, can these do? I've never seen the yellow cap wd-40 before but the red cap is everywhere.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

I heard the Chinese 6JI are crap... Mine came with the Valvo 6CQ6 but those weren't good either. Tube upgrade is the only way to go with the I+.


----------



## MunkyOne

rovopio said:


> My LD i+ comes with the cheapest 6JI tubes.
> 
> Can you recommend any electrical contact spray brand for me to buy? I've never used one (nor see one) and when I went to the local Ace Hardware and ask the employee, he didn't understand what I was saying.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Hi,
  
 Those stock tubes may well be ok for you; some people seem to like them.  I would give them time to settle-in before evaluating them.  All tubes need some time to reveal their true character, as a lot of subtle material changes happen during the first hours of use.  There are more experienced tube rollers than I here, who can guide future tube choices.  For example, gibosi is very active here and his posts have certainly helped my tube rolling efforts.  Check out some of his posts.
  
 I would never recommend WD40 red cap for use in electronics.  It is ok for some car electrics etc, but not suitable for electronic circuits, as it will not dissolve dirt and oxides and it will leave a residue which may adversely affect the circuit operation.
  
 The product I use is branded 'BARDAHL' and is one of the cheaper cleaners that will remove dirt and oxides from electrical contacts, without leaving any residue.  Not sure if it is available outside EU though.   Which country are you in? 
  
 I think that WD40 make a specialist contact cleaner, though I have not tried it.   Here it is  but I can't vouch for it, as I haven't used it.  Or there is this and this.
  
 Basically, what you need is any specialist cleaner that will remove dirt and oxides from electrical contacts, without leaving any residue.   I would have thought that any good electrical hardware store, or perhaps one that sells electronics would have something similar.
  
 Hope this helps.


----------



## gkmackey

iamxln said:


> report in when you get those hifiman so we can hear how you like it, i found the 408a to have a MASSIVE sound stage for the mad dogs


 

 Will do


----------



## MunkyOne

williamleonhart said:


> As far as I know my ODAC has an output of 2V, which means the LD will output about 7V (yep 3.5x gain is right, I must have been using the phone to type the previous message). That seems to make the I+ clip, resulting in the jitter noises that I had. When I turn down the ODAC to half its volume (in Windows), the I+ gives perfect sound as usual.


 

 Hi,
  
 I have no experience of the ODAC product, but as you say you are able to stop the distortion from within windows, it suggests to me that there may be a configuration issue between the driver, windows or the player app. 
  
 Some questions:
 With the windows volume at the distortion level, are you able to stop the distortion by turning down the LD1+ volume?
  
 Do you have another amp you can connect to the ODAC, to eliminate the LD1+ from the equation?
  
 Can you use another device (CD, DAP etc.) with the LS1+ (again to eliminate the LD1+ from the equation)?
  
 How is your the ODAC confiured in Windows and what application are you playng from?
  
  
 The LD1+ is for the most part a very good design, and easily capable of accepting the industry (Redbook) standard 2-volts at input.  Of the many devices I have connected to the LD1+, I have yet to find one that can drive the LD1+ to clipping.  I have, on the other hand, experienced SQ issues when devices were not properly configured in Windows or my player app, so it is worth reviewing your config settings at this point.
  
 I see you are a Grado man.  I love the LD1+ with my Grados, especially with the MUSES02 op-amp in the LD1+.  Well worth a try, at some point.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

munkyone said:


> I see you are a Grado man.  I love the LD1+ with my Grados, especially with the MUSES02 op-amp in the LD1+.  Well worth a try, at some point.


 
 Thanks for your compliments on my Grados. This is not the first time I've seen someone putting so much praise towards the MUSES02, perhaps it's really the next purchase for me.
  
 Regarding your questions, the answers are as below: 


munkyone said:


> Some questions:
> With the windows volume at the distortion level, are you able to stop the distortion by turning down the LD1+ volume?
> *No. It happens to my O2 too.*
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you for all these questions  To be honest my knowledge in this field is very limited and without the head-fi community I wouldn't make it this far in the headphone game


----------



## rovopio

munkyone said:


> I think that WD40 make a specialist contact cleaner, though I have not tried it.   Here it is  but I can't vouch for it, as I haven't used it.  Or there is this and this.
> 
> Basically, what you need is any specialist cleaner that will remove dirt and oxides from electrical contacts, without leaving any residue.   I would have thought that any good electrical hardware store, or perhaps one that sells electronics would have something similar.
> 
> Hope this helps.


 
  
 I can't even find a power cable in Ace Hardware or PC store, and i live in the capital, so yeah.
 I ordered a power cable from amazon, I might get contact cleaner from amazon as well.
  
 By the way, can i ask how do i use those contact cleaner? So i take it I need to spray the pins right? and then what? Do i need to scrape them with pen knife after I spray or do i just need to let them dry naturally after i spray?
  
 cheers...


----------



## gibosi

rovopio said:


> By the way, can i ask how do i use those contact cleaner? So i take it I need to spray the pins right? and then what? Do i need to scrape them with pen knife after I spray or do i just need to let them dry naturally after i spray?


 
  
 Usually all that is necessary is to scrap the pins with a dull knife. I use the top of an X-ACTO blade as the tip is narrow enough to easily fit in between the pins. Sometimes, especially with octal tubes in a different amp, I clean further with DeoxIT D-series cleaner. Simply apply it to the pins, wait a couple minutes, and then wipe off.
  
 So to more directly answer your question, scrape the pins first, and then, if you want, apply a contact cleaner, wait a few minutes, and wipe it off. If you don't wipe the contact cleaner off, over time, the sockets might get sticky and gooey.


----------



## MunkyOne

HI,
  
 It is as gibosi says.  I always use a scalpel to scrape the worst off, then apply a light spray of contact cleaner to just the pins.  I always use a contact cleaner that dries immediately and does not leve any residue.  This way I never have any issues with pins becoming sticky and attracting more dirt.  The main thing is to be gentle in handling the pins.


----------



## MunkyOne

williamleonhart said:


> Thanks for your compliments on my Grados. This is not the first time I've seen someone putting so much praise towards the MUSES02, perhaps it's really the next purchase for me.
> 
> Regarding your questions, the answers are as below:
> Thank you for all these questions  To be honest my knowledge in this field is very limited and without the head-fi community I wouldn't make it this far in the headphone game


 

 Hi,
  
 We are all in the same boat at some point; I have learned so much from the folks here as well as other forums.  Joining Head-Fi was a very good move; it's an amazing resource.
  
 From your answers, it still looks like the problem may be in the Windows / driver / Foobar config somewhere.  The amount of gain an amplifier has does not matter, so long as the design is good and it is working properly and it is fed a good signal.  The higher gain of some amps will simply exaggerate the distortion more.  If you experienced clipping with two different amps, then it is safe to assume that the problem lies before the amp.
  
 If you right-click on the windows volume control and select playback devices, then right click on the ODAC device and select properties, you can check that the options are correct for that device.  Windows will never auto-config optional parameters, so it is worth a look.  Look at the 'Enhancements' tab and disable all of the enhancements.   Then, in the 'Advanced' tab, check to ensure that the sample rate isn't set higher than the ODAC's maximum rate.  Also check the two boxes for 'exclusive mode'.
  
 While am not familiar with Foobar, I would suggest looking around the audio settings, ensuring that none are set beyond the ODAC's capabilities
  
 I have just found this document which confirms the settings you need to look at in windows for the ODAC, as well as causes for distorted sound, which seem reasonable.  Read and adjust accordingly.
  
This may be worth a read through for Foobar / ASIO etc settings in windows.
  
 Hope this helps.


----------



## nojwe

gkmackey said:


> I just installed a set of WE 408A what is the amount of "break-in" time for tubes? Do I need to have the LD +1 connected to headphones to do this? Many thanks in advance.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I'll add that you should not leave the amp running for 20-50 hours straight. It's a short enough time period that I say just listen normally and you might notice some pleasant changes as the tubes break in.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

munkyone said:


> Hi,
> 
> We are all in the same boat at some point; I have learned so much from the folks here as well as other forums.  Joining Head-Fi was a very good move; it's an amazing resource.
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you for this detailed advice. I have checked everything on my ODAC and yep it's all correct, no parameters set out of range at all. Enhancements disabled. Sample rates are at 24/96 (Windows won't show higher), all the boxxes are checked.
  
 I've found that in the same song, when ODAC is at 100% in WIndows, I can hear tiny popping noises. When it's at 90% and I raise the volume on the LD I+, the jitters are all gone.
  
 I still think clipping is the problem here. I first found out about this when putting my intergrated O2 + ODAC on high gain. When I use the O2 (on high gain) with my iPhone 5, the jitters are gone. My O2+ODAC is not from JDS Labs but from Epiphany.
  
 This is very strange since I think 2V * 3.5x gain from the I+ is not too much at all. It seems the output from my ODAC has some problem.


----------



## MunkyOne

williamleonhart said:


> Thank you for this detailed advice. I have checked everything on my ODAC and yep it's all correct, no parameters set out of range at all. Enhancements disabled. Sample rates are at 24/96 (Windows won't show higher), all the boxxes are checked.
> 
> I've found that in the same song, when ODAC is at 100% in WIndows, I can hear tiny popping noises. When it's at 90% and I raise the volume on the LD I+, the jitters are all gone.
> 
> ...


 
 Things to look at:
  
  
 INPUT FILES:
 When you say "...in the same song, when ODAC is at 100% in Windows,.."  Do you get the same problem with all songs with a similar dynamic range?   I have had to re-rip some of my CDs due to audible artifacts in the digital files, which are often only noticeable at higher volumes.  I have also downloaded files that contain audible artifacts.  There are a lot of badly ripped digital music files out there.  Some of my CDs are badly recorded and have artifacts, which (of course) end up in the ripped files.  Worth a look?  As we say in the computing community; rubbish in = rubbish out.  Try different files / types.
  
 You say: "When I use the O2 (on high gain) with my iPhone 5, the jitters are gone."   Is this with another copy of the same digital music file that you can hear artifacts when playing through Foobar/ODAC/LD!+?  If not, then try it with the same file.
  
  
 WINDOWS:
 Need to be sure that this is not part of the problem.  Download this and run it on your windows system.  It is a DPC latency checker from Thesycon.  It is good for looking at whether your windows platform has any latency issues that might affect the quality of audio streams etc.  You just let it run for a few minutes and look at the graph.  If you see red bars or very high yellow ones, then there may well be a problem driver/s causing audio streaming issues.   I have used it when I have experienced audible artifacts, to isolate my laptop from the equation.  Worth a go.
  
 What are you running Foobar on?  Sometimes if we have an under-specced or just very busy computer, we can expect occasional artifacts.  I can easily replicate this but working my laptop hard while playing music from iRiver.
  
 To eliminate your windows platform from the equation; do you have access to another device with a digital out?  Or another PC/MAC?  To connect to the ODAC and LD1+ as a test (using the same input files, of course.
  
  
 DAC:
  
 Do you have another DAC that you can connect between your computer and the LD1+?  This will be very useful at this point.
  
  
 AMP:
  
 You have had the same problems with your O2/ODAC combo, so it is very unlikely the amp at fault here.  As for the gain of the amp; this is of no consequence here.  The gain of the LD1+, even if it were 7x (or higher) would not be a cause of clipping, assuming it is properly designed to operate at that gain _and is working as it should_.  Unless the amp is driven with an unusually high input voltage (>2v), it should be ok no matter the gain factor.   As you say that you can replicate the distortion with another amp, we are clearly looking at something else.  I regularly feed my LD1+ with a 2v input from my DAC / DAP (FiiO is 2v out) without issue.  Can you feed your LD1+ from your iPhone line out using a song that you had a problem with?  This should show you that the LD1+ is working ok, although I recognise that Apple devices don't conform to the industy (Redbook) standards for line out voltage, being <2v.
  
  
 If after all of the above, the ODAC seems to be the problem, then it may be worth investigating it, but that would requite access to a scope, or getting someone (Epiphany?) to check it, as a last resort, of course.
  
 Sorry I'm a bit long-winded, but there are so many suspects here


----------



## rovopio

@Munky,
  
 can I ask you something about DAC and PC but only tangentially related to Little Dot i+.
 1) If i upgrade from my current fiio e10k as a DAC, to a Modi or a ODAC or any affordable entry-level standalone DAC, will I hear a big, --or small, or even any-- difference at all?
 2) If i for example, decide to sell my fiio e10k and plug the LD i+ and my amps directly to my PC. I know from PC forum that I should plug it to the Green Hole.
 My question is... since headphone in itself is also plugged in into the Green Hole (for everybody that doesn't have an amp)... SO... plugging an amps there without a dedicated DAC, does that mean it's going to be double-amping?
  
 3) Basically... How do I know if the Green Hole on my PC motherboard is a Headphone Out or a Line Out?
 I have a Z87 average motherboard with 6 holes. pink-green-blue and three other hole colors below that that I can't remember.


----------



## MunkyOne

rovopio said:


> @Munky,
> 
> can I ask you something about DAC and PC but only tangentially related to Little Dot i+.
> 1) If i upgrade from my current fiio e10k as a DAC, to a Modi or a ODAC or any affordable entry-level standalone DAC, will I hear a big, --or small, or even any-- difference at all?
> ...


 

 Hi,
  
 Here goes...
  
 1.  All things being equal, you are likely to hear some differences; it is often very subjective.  However, as you go upwards in DAC price/performance, it is reasonable to expect as a minimum, more details in the music, perhaps with a more spacious sound, with better separation between instruments.  If at all possible I try to audition the items of interest to me, before I invest or, at least, search for well balanced reviews, here and elsewhere.  Dacs of similar abilities will differ in character, as with all components.  Generally though, most people will enjoy the improvements that Modi or ODAC et-al offer.  I have read good reports here from those who pair the Modi and Magni products; they seem quite satisfied.  I have no personal experience of either though.
  
 I see (from your profile) that you already have some excellent headphones and a Magni amp.  Using your PC output directly would be a waste of these heaphones and amp, unless you put an amazing sound card in your PC.  I would suggest that with your headphone and amp inventory, you would benefit from a dedicated USB DAC.  The E10K is actually very good for it's price, but won't bring out the best in your amp and headphones.
  
 2.  No.  It won't be double-amping, since the green (headphone-out) socket is only around line-level when the PC volume is at max.  I wouldn't recommend connecting your amp to the green (headphone-out) because you will likely see a drop in sound quality, compared to using a dedicated DAC connected to your USB port.  When using a DAC, you are effectively adding a superior external sound device via USB, which when correctly configured in windows, bypasses the inferior onboard audio processing.
  
 3.  By convention, the green jack socket is the headphone out.  They often double as a line-out, but are not at a true (fixed c.2-volts) line-level e.g. as a CD player would be.  Since you are not using a dedicated comprehensive PC sound card, you don't have a real line-out.  I am not familiar with your motherboard (I use a laptop for most things).
  
 Hope this helps.


----------



## rovopio

munkyone said:


> Hi,
> 
> Here goes...
> 
> ...


 
  
 Due to Import Tax (40% + FedEx handling), I can't get a Modi 2 Uber without offloading my Fiio e10k.
 Well I could but I don't want to eat instant noodles this month.
 That's why I'm really wondering whether I should get a Modi 2 Uber or stay with the Fiio e10k (as a DAC). And if I sell my e10k, I might go 3 weeks without a DAC (waiting for Modi 2 Uber to arrived), hence that question.

 ---
 I believe that with $500 DAC and ups, surely there will be perceivable sound difference (even if it's objectively, measurement / human hearing-wise shouldn't be).
 But I'm really wondering how much of a difference a cheap sub-$150 DAC will affect my chain (that's already have a e10k DAC to begin with).
 Because $150 is not $150 anymore when it's added by 40% tax heheh  Plus the intangible value of my impatience on waiting for anything past 2 weeks.
 I see my option around the price brackets are ODAC, the Modi, Modi 2 Uber (which connection-wise I don't need) but I'm too gullible and ate up Schiit's product description words of the 2 uber, what else.. a Audioquest Dragonfly maybe. HRT microstreamer. iFi iDAC (or whatever that's called), and really anything at the $150 price bracket.
  
 By the way, I'm thinking of getting a Fiio X3 II to replace my Fiio X1.
 Fiio X3 II has a cs4398 cirrus-logic dac, and I think overall would be _better _compared to it's brethren the el-cheapo-boss-performance fiio e10k dac. This is just conjecture out of my magic hat.
  
 -----
 TL;DR
 Basically, some DAP now offers USB DAC capability. Will those DAP's (say a Fiio X3 II USB DAC section), will the Fiio x3 II USB DAC section be an upgrade from it's Fiio e10k brethren?
 Even moreso, will it offer comparable performance to that of the entry-level dedicated DAC such as Modi, ODAC, or ifi iDAC? Two birds with one stone kinda thing...
 Or will it still offer far less performance than a simple Modi?


----------



## MunkyOne

rovopio said:


> Due to Import Tax (40% + FedEx handling), I can't get a Modi 2 Uber without offloading my Fiio e10k.
> Well I could but I don't want to eat instant noodles this month.
> That's why I'm really wondering whether I should get a Modi 2 Uber or stay with the Fiio e10k (as a DAC). And if I sell my e10k, I might go 3 weeks without a DAC (waiting for Modi 2 Uber to arrived), hence that question.
> 
> ...


 

 HI,
  
  
 I think that you have reached an interesting conclusion.  Given the budget constraints etc. and the disinclination to eat noodles for a month (too painful), what you have suggested makes sense.  The FiiO x3 II.   I have the first gen X3, and used it extensively as a USB DAC feeding my LD1+ while I was building my main DAC.  It was very good in this configuration; I enjoyed my music without problems.  The gen2 X3 is better still by most accounts.  The Gen2 X3 will be a better DAC than your E10K, will have a better line-out signal, so will be a better partner for your LD1+ or Magni.   I cannot comment about comparisons with a Modi or ODAC as I have heard neither, but given your current setup, I feel sure that you will see some improvement.  I suspect that the new X3 will be fairly close in performance to the most 'entry level' DACs.  Also, unlike the E10k, the X3 uses a dedicated Thesycon driver, which should result in better performance in Windows.   Of course you will also have an exellent DAP for the same cost, that will drive all your headphones reasonably well.
  
 If you are going to go down this route, I would suggest some tube and opamp rolling in the LD1+ to tune it well to your preferred sound.  For your Grados, I would recomend a tube with some warmth and smoothness.


----------



## rovopio

munkyone said:


>


 
  
 Hiya...!
 Can i ask you one last thing...?
  
 Is there a specific way to handle the tubes when plugging them in and taking them out? 
 Is it okay for me to touch them by hand? Or shouldn't I...?
 So far I use tissue to take them on and off, but' it's quite slippery doing it that way...
 If there is a proper way of handling tubes... I will do it.


----------



## MunkyOne

rovopio said:


> Hiya...!
> Can i ask you one last thing...?
> 
> Is there a specific way to handle the tubes when plugging them in and taking them out?
> ...


 

 HI,
  
 In general, they should be handled very carefuly..  To remove a tube, pull it straight upwards from it's socket.  Sometimes, if they are a little tight, a subtle side-to-side movement whille pulling will help.  Excessive side-to-side movement can damage the tube base, causing cracking around the pins.  Since some tubes get quite hot in operation, any dirt or oily substances on the tube glass can cause them to overheat, potentially reducung the service life, so clean, dry hands or a cloth is a good idea when handling. 
  
 No need to worry too much about handling though; I have rarely heard of people breaking them, altough it does happen.  Some of the military-spec tubes can take some abuse, but I wouldn't care to test that.


----------



## rovopio

munkyone said:


> HI,
> 
> In general, they should be handled very carefuly..  To remove a tube, pull it straight upwards from it's socket.  Sometimes, if they are a little tight, a subtle side-to-side movement whille pulling will help.  Excessive side-to-side movement can damage the tube base, causing cracking around the pins.  Since some tubes get quite hot in operation, any dirt or oily substances on the tube glass can cause them to overheat, potentially reducung the service life, so clean, dry hands or a cloth is a good idea when handling.
> 
> No need to worry too much about handling though; I have rarely heard of people breaking them, altough it does happen.  Some of the military-spec tubes can take some abuse, but I wouldn't care to test that.


 
  
 How about pins that bend ever so slightly?
 My 6hm5 arrived, and one of the pins are bent just a little bit. There are tolerance with the LD i+ tube holes though so it *eventually* managed to fit in _snuggle-ish._
 At first I was normally plug them in like I plugged the default China tubes but it wouldn't go in, i then inspect and saw 2 of the pins on one of the tube is so slightly bent.
  
 Then I plug it in again slowly and do side-to-side while plugging them in, and now it's fine.
  
 So... on the question above, is it alright, electrically speaking, or safety-wise speaking, that a few of the tubes pins are not 100% straight and a little bent?
 TL;DR, I don't want a house fire is all.


----------



## MunkyOne

rovopio said:


> How about pins that bend ever so slightly?
> My 6hm5 arrived, and one of the pins are bent just a little bit. There are tolerance with the LD i+ tube holes though so it *eventually* managed to fit in _snuggle-ish._
> At first I was normally plug them in like I plugged the default China tubes but it wouldn't go in, i then inspect and saw 2 of the pins on one of the tube is so slightly bent.
> 
> ...


 
 I wouldn't worry too much; I don't think anyone is at risk of starting a fire.   When you consider that these tubes were / are made in numerous factories around the world, there are bound to be small engineering differences.  The pins are sometimes prone to bending in packaging / transit / handling etc. so some very slight bending or misalighnment is common. The universal tube sockets are easily able to accommodate these variances, so it's not a problem in reality.  Just carefully insert the tube into it's socket and all should be well.
  
 If you encounter a very bent pin, try to straighten it by gripping the pin with flat pliers along it's entire length and squeezing the pin between the pliers surfaces.   Never try to straighten the pin by articulating it from the pin base, as you will risk either breaking the pin or cracking the glass at the base. 
  
 Slightly bent or misaligned pins are not considered to present an electrical safety risk; the currents  involved are too low for arcing to occur  The worst case scenario would be poor / intermittent sound due to poor surface contact.
  
 As you begin tube rolling, you will soon get used to the handling.  In reality it is no more of a concern than changing a lightbulb.


----------



## tkoreaper

So I recently purchased the MUSES 02 opamp after seeing it mentioned many times. It arrived today and I immediately put it in. First thing I noticed was the clarity... sound is completely different from stock. Sound is very tight, but it's kind of tinny sounding... like I lost a lot of bass or something. Can anyone recommend some tubes to try with this? I'm currently using some NOS milspec Mullards CV4015 and rocking the DT 990 Pro 250 OHM.


----------



## iamxLn

Mullard m8100 cv4010 should help you out in the bass department and supposed to be pretty warm as well. Could also try the yugo tubes everyone here mentions, honestly they look pretty sweet when they're glowing. 
  
 Also try turning up the gain on the amp to the high setting before spending more money on tubes. If you're ordering on ebay it wouldn't hurt to just throw a 2 dollar lm4562 in the cart, it works well for me on the beyer 880 pro 250s. I never spent the money on the muses, but for 2 dollars it's worth a gamble on your end. I listen to some bass heavy electro and even on the dt880 I'm satisfied in the bass department. It hits pretty deep on mad dog pros too. 
  
 You know truthfully though, the sound you're describing with tight bass and clarity is a traditional audiophile sound - those 990s can be bright and tinny. Maybe it's just a bad match or not the right op amp for you. 
  
 I'm by no means an expert, but we have similar gear and I know what worked for me. I'm not a bass head, but do like some thump when called for.


----------



## tkoreaper

After closer inspection I found the cause to be my soundcard. I have a Xonar Essence STX and it's been a while since I switched from the heaphone jack to the RCA connections. I made the switch because I get feedback sometimes while gaming. I'm looking into a different opamp configuration for my card which should hopefully fix the lack of bass.


----------



## MunkyOne

tkoreaper said:


> So I recently purchased the MUSES 02 opamp after seeing it mentioned many times. It arrived today and I immediately put it in. First thing I noticed was the clarity... sound is completely different from stock. Sound is very tight, but it's kind of tinny sounding... like I lost a lot of bass or something. Can anyone recommend some tubes to try with this? I'm currently using some NOS milspec Mullards CV4015 and rocking the DT 990 Pro 250 OHM.


 

 HI,
  
 Give it a while, as most electronic components require at least a little time to settle to their stable values.   I did not find the MUSES02 to be tinny at all, even from first use.   However, it is all about perception.  Often, with tightness, comes the perception of less bass, since it more controlled, not boomy or dominant.  If you prefer the effect of less controlled bass, then perhaps one of the warmer Burr-Brown op-amps may work for you.
  
 As for tubes, I would say the Mullard M8161 (CV4015) are a good choice, being a pretty good all rounder.  Even more solid bass can be heard in the Voskhod 6ZHP-EV, although to my ears, these are not quite as smooth and refined as the mullards.  Again, if exaggerated bass is important to you, then the Voskhods may be worth a try.
  
 Some of the tube descriptions here may help your choices.


----------



## bluewrx1025

Hey everyone, a little off topic but I just recently bought my Little Dot I+ secondhand with a couple screws missing. I found the correct screws on eBay and just wanted to post the link in case anyone has some stripped out or missing screws they're looking to replace.
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/291218784975?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## Luckbad

Has anyone tried this with the Fostex TH600/TH900? I was thinking of getting a Mk3 or Mk4, but Little Dot advised against it since they are OTL amps. Basically, the options are the I+, 6+, or 9, the latter two of which are way too expensive.


----------



## gibosi

I have never head either of these Fostex headphones, but agree with Little Dot's recommendation. An impedance of 25 ohms is far too low for an OTL. However, in terms of impedance, either of these Fostex will match up very nicely with the LD 1+. And further, with rollable op amps and vacuum tubes, you should be able to find a configuration that pleases your ears.
  
 Cheers


----------



## Luckbad

gibosi said:


> I have never head either of these Fostex headphones, but agree with Little Dot's recommendation. An impedance of 25 ohms is far too low for an OTL. However, in terms of impedance, either of these Fostex will match up very nicely with the LD 1+. And further, with rollable op amps and vacuum tubes, you should be able to find a configuration that pleases your ears.
> 
> Cheers


 
  
 Any recommendations for warm, bass-heavy (especially sub-bass) configs? I'm a basshead and love me some rumbling sub-bass.


----------



## BzzzzzT

Has anyone tried the Audeze LCD-2s with the 1+? I did get to try a pair briefly, but the room was very noisy and I could not really make any critical evaluation. The 1+ did seem to drive them ok, but the noise and all the other awesome headphones in the room befuddled my brain. The little dot does seem to have very good current behind all those MWs.
  
 It drives my Fidelio X2s amazingly well and I am thrilled. I just love the sound signature of this amp after getting good tubes and various mods I have done. I would be reluctant to use another amp.


----------



## Meddlesome Duck

I just tried a pair of 6HM5s with the little dot i+ I believe the correct jumper configuration was the same as EF91 and EF92, I've tried the tubes and I am receiving no sound at all. Is this a sign of DOA tubes or have I opted for the wrong jumper configuration, I don't want to play around testing the other configurations in case I damage the amplifier.
  
 Thanks


----------



## drofeel71

meddlesome duck said:


> I just tried a pair of 6HM5s with the little dot i+ I believe the correct jumper configuration was the same as EF91 and EF92, I've tried the tubes and I am receiving no sound at all. Is this a sign of DOA tubes or have I opted for the wrong jumper configuration, I don't want to play around testing the other configurations in case I damage the amplifier.
> 
> Thanks



Your jumper settings are wrong. You need the setting for EF95 family of tubes.
K1 and K2 set to 6J1. 
J1 and J2 jumpers removed, open circuit.


----------



## Meddlesome Duck

drofeel71 said:


> Your jumper settings are wrong. You need the setting for EF95 family of tubes.
> K1 and K2 set to 6J1.
> J1 and J2 jumpers removed, open circuit.


 
  
 That did the trick thanks.


----------



## drofeel71

meddlesome duck said:


> That did the trick thanks.



You're welcome. What opamp and headphones are you using with these tubes?


----------



## Meddlesome Duck

drofeel71 said:


> You're welcome. What opamp and headphones are you using with these tubes?


 
 I'm using the LM4562 opamp and Philips Fidelio X2, I've not run them in properly yet but I believe I may prefer my Northern Electric NE-408A


----------



## drofeel71

meddlesome duck said:


> I'm using the LM4562 opamp and Philips Fidelio X2, I've not run them in properly yet but I believe I may prefer my Northern Electric NE-408A



I tried the LM4562 as the person I bought my 6HM5s from included it in the sale, not a fan of its sound. So now using them with a muses01 opamp, which I like as the detail retrieval and soundstage is superb, but still a little dry sounding for my tastes. So I'm now looking to purchase a muses02 which according to many in this thread is the endgame opamp, with a wetter sound, just have to warrent the spend as is slightly more expensive than all my other opamps.


----------



## Meddlesome Duck

drofeel71 said:


> I tried the LM4562 as the person I bought my 6HM5s from included it in the sale, not a fan of its sound. So now using them with a muses01 opamp, which I like as the detail retrieval and soundstage is superb, but still a little dry sounding for my tastes. So I'm now looking to purchase a muses02 which according to many in this thread is the endgame opamp, with a wetter sound, just have to warrent the spend as is slightly more expensive than all my other opamps.


 
  
 I was tempted by the muses02 I found someone from china selling them for £5 on ebay I doubt they are real though. I find the sound difference in opamps lack luster compared to tubes, might pick up the muses01 one day if I find it cheap enough.


----------



## HeatFan12

A little old skool today with some EF91s


----------



## Meddlesome Duck

heatfan12 said:


> A little old skool today with some EF91s


 
  
 Very Nice, here's what I'm rocking


----------



## HeatFan12

Thanks!
  
 Sweeet!!
  
 I believe I read you like those NE 408As.  How do you like the CV5377?
  
  I personally love the EF91 variants.  Years ago I was able to get a few good pairs.
  
 With so many variants and replacements with strapping and adapters, it's good to go back to the basics sometimes.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Meddlesome Duck

The EF91s are far better than the stock tubes, although find them very bassey which is perfect for my K550s but they don't pair well with the X2's. I think my favorite tubes so far are the 408As very clear mids and highs with recessed bass. Now just to try a few different opamps, I've heard a lot about the muses01 and 02 but I'm looking for something cheaper.


----------



## Arsis

meddlesome duck said:


> The EF91s are far better than the stock tubes, although find them very bassey which is perfect for my K550s but they don't pair well with the X2's. I think my favorite tubes so far are the 408As very clear mids and highs with recessed bass. Now just to try a few different opamps, I've heard a lot about the muses01 and 02 but I'm looking for something cheaper.


I'm using WE408a and OPA2107 and I find the combination very pleasing. Definitively worth a try.


----------



## Meddlesome Duck

I have the OPA2107 but I've not tried that combo yet, I was thinking of getting the muses8820 or the 8920.


----------



## bluewrx1025

arsis said:


> I'm using WE408a and OPA2107 and I find the combination very pleasing. Definitively worth a try.


 
  
 +1. I have this setup as well. Big fan of this setup. But I've been listening to my 1945 Hytron 6AK5 with the Burr Brown OPA2107 as well.


----------



## gibosi

Back in the day when I was listening to 408A's, I found these Philips Miniwatt TS62. However, even though these carried the Philips' label, I am quite sure Philips didn't manufacture them. The characteristic seams in the glass are missing and there are no visible etched manufacturing codes. My WAG is Philips contracted with Sylvania to make a deluxe 408A for the European market and these are the result. Anyway, as best as I can remember, these have the same sound as the Sylvanias. Nice tubes.


----------



## BzzzzzT

meddlesome duck said:


> The EF91s are far better than the stock tubes, although find them very bassey which is perfect for my K550s but they don't pair well with the X2's. I think my favorite tubes so far are the 408As very clear mids and highs with recessed bass. Now just to try a few different opamps, I've heard a lot about the muses01 and 02 but I'm looking for something cheaper.


 
  
 I love the X2s with the LD 1+! I actually liked the EF91s more than the 408As. I do like bass and my Little Dot is heavily modded, plus I am using the Muse 02, so my sound is probably different. I think the extra price of the Muse 02 is totally worth it. I think the Muse took the 1+ to another level. It even beat out a discreet opamp I purchased. You can get them from Mouser for around 50 after shipping, still pricy for an opamp though. I really liked the Burr Brown OPA620KG for a a good cheap opamp. But like tubes, opamps are a personal choice.


----------



## benburton

I bought a Little Dot I+ the other day, and I have tried rolling in a pair of Sylvania GB-408a tubes (bought them on eBay here). I followed the directions with the K1 and K2 jumpers on the 408a setting, and the J1 and J2 jumpers removed. When I powered the unit on the blue power light comes up, but the tubes do not glow and there is no sound from the unit. Works great with the stock tubes on the 6JI setting (K1 and K2 on 6JI, J1 and J2 removed).
  
 Should I send this back to the seller and request a replacement? I talked to David from Little Dot, and he said that he can't offer support/replacement because the seller on Amazon is not authorized.
  
 I suppose it could be the tubes that are to blame, but neither worked and I did try swapping them. The eBay listing also says they were tested and NOS (although not matched).


----------



## gibosi

benburton said:


> I bought a Little Dot I+ the other day, and I have tried rolling in a pair of Sylvania GB-408a tubes (bought them on eBay here). I followed the directions with the K1 and K2 jumpers on the 408a setting, and the J1 and J2 jumpers removed. When I powered the unit on the blue power light comes up, but the tubes do not glow and there is no sound from the unit. Works great with the stock tubes on the 6JI setting (K1 and K2 on 6JI, J1 and J2 removed).
> 
> Should I send this back to the seller and request a replacement? I talked to David from Little Dot, and he said that he can't offer support/replacement because the seller on Amazon is not authorized.
> 
> I suppose it could be the tubes that are to blame, but neither worked and I did try swapping them. The eBay listing also says they were tested and NOS (although not matched).


 
  
 If you have an voltmeter, measure across pins 3 and 4 in the socket to see if there is 20 volts. (I haven't done this in a long time, so I am not sure if the 20 volt source is DC or AC. But I think it is DC.) In the socket, pin 1 is just to the right of the gap, so count counterclockwise to pins 3 and 4.
  
 If you have 20 volts, the tubes are likely bad. However, you might want to clean pins 3 and 4 (scrape with a dull knife or use sandpaper) on the tube just to be sure.
  
 If you do not have 20 volts in the socket, open the amp up and make sure the jumpers on K1 and K2 are tight and secure.
  
 Cheers


----------



## benburton

Thanks for the tip gibosi. I've actually just decided to order another pair of WE-408a's. I will test those, and then I can be pretty sure that either the Little Dot is defective or the GB-408a's are. Will post updates.


----------



## fragger008

Hello all,
  
 Thanks for this topic on which I can learn a lot of things ! 
  
 I have AKG Q701 headphones, with a Little Dot I+ that I received two weeks ago, with stock Opamp and stock 6J1 tubes. The sound was pretty good for me, comparing to the headphones directly plugged in to my NuForce uDac.
  
 Reading a lot of things on Internet, I decided to purchase an OPA2107 and a pair of Voskhod 6ZH1P-EV tubes. I've received the tubes 2 days ago and I'm still waiting for the Opamp.
  
 First of all, I would like to say that I really love my AKG Q701, but I just find that it has a lack of bass, in terms of bass "volume", basses are here, but for my personal feeling they are not loud enough. Moreover, I love the highmids and highs that are really precise, but unfortunately to my ears I find them sometimes too fatiguing, particularly at loud volume. All this feeling when my headphones was directly plugged in on my NuForce uDac.
  
 When I received my Little Dot I+ with stock configuration (stock Opamp with stock 6J1 tubes), I found that the bass volume was a little bit better, and high-mids and highs were less fatiguing so it was very good for all points.
  
 Two days ago when I put my Voskhod tubes, I was wondering a lot of improvement since I've read many and many good impressions of these tubes. But I must say that I'm quite disappointed  Ok, It is evident that the sound is more "precise" and more "clean" than stock tubes, particularly in high frequencies. But I find that bass volume is less than with 6J1 tubes, with less punch and impact  Moreover, high frequencies are again fatiguing at loud volume...
  
 I'm still waiting for the OPA2107, and I've also ordered a pair of 6HM5 E900 El Yugoslavia.
  
 Do you think that the OPA2107 will go in the good direction according to my impressions ? Also I've read about the MUSES02, what about it ?
  
 And also, is there some Opamp/tubes combination that work better than other ? For example, MUSES02 will work better with Voskhod 6ZH1P-EV than with 6HM5, whereas OPA2107 will work better with 6HM5 than with 6ZH1P ? Or something like that ?
  
 For your point of view, what is the best combination of Opamp and tubes for the AKG Q701 to have more bass volume impact and punch, and less fatiguing high frequencies ?
  
 Thank you by advance for your answers, and sorry for my bas english, I'm from France 
 Best regards,
 Jonathan.


----------



## tkoreaper

I love my MUSES02. It was the first opamp I purchased for my LD1+ so I have no experience with any others. I will say though that it leaves me wanting nothing... sound is absolutely superb. At first it was very bright and tinny sounding, but after breaking it in overnight the sound came to life. I am currently using a pair NOS Mullard CV4015 EF92 tubes, but eagerly waiting for the pair of NOS El Yugoslavia 6HM5 that I recently purchased after hearing so much about them. I use the DT 990 PRO (250 OHM) headphones which are supposed to tinny sounding, but with my setup it's perfect. The bass isn't as much as stock levels, but the sound is much tighter and more clean. The tubes I ordered should bring the bass up a little more, but don't think I'm saying that it's current levels are lacking at all, I just want a little more punch.


----------



## BzzzzzT

fragger008 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Thanks for this topic on which I can learn a lot of things !
> 
> ...


 
  
 I LOVE the Muse 02. One thing I found about the Muse compared to all the other opamps it tried, is that it reduced sibilance without making the highs sound rolled off. Mouser electronics has them for $46.25 plus shipping. I also liked the bass it put out.
  
 I really liked the 6J1 tube. I even liked the 6J1s more than my C3Gs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. My X2s tend the be slightly darker, so I think the 6J1s really work well with them. No the 6J1 is not as detailed as some other tubes, but I find it is really dynamic and fun to listen to. I think too many people discount this humble tube as not being prestigious/audiophile enough and don't give it a fair chance. I really want to try the 6HM5s. I would look for recommendations on what people like with the Q701s. I think it is good to have some different tubes to find what works best.


----------



## fragger008

Thanks for your answer 
  
 So do you have some "combination" examples of Opamp and Tubes that work well with AKG Q701 ? That maybe could improve the amount of bass and give less fatiguing highs at loud volume ?


----------



## gulakpi

I read from the other Little Dot Tube Rolling thread that the "ultimate" tube for the LD is the C3g on an C3g to 6AK5 adapter.
 The C3g looks rather expensive on eBay, and there is a C3m available at lower costs.
  
 My research showed the C3m is a C3g with 20V filament. Otherwise it is the same tube.
 Can I interpret this as:  The C3m with the socket adapter can be used on the LD1+ like the WE408A (with the WE408A jumper settings)?


----------



## gibosi

gulakpi said:


> I read from the other Little Dot Tube Rolling thread that the "ultimate" tube for the LD is the C3g on an C3g to 6AK5 adapter.
> The C3g looks rather expensive on eBay, and there is a C3m available at lower costs.
> 
> My research showed the C3m is a C3g with 20V filament. Otherwise it is the same tube.
> Can I interpret this as:  The C3m with the socket adapter can be used on the LD1+ like the WE408A (with the WE408A jumper settings)?


 
  
 The pin-out for the C3m is different than the C3g, and thus, a different adapter would be necessary. So yes, the C3m will work using the 408A heater settings, but you can't use the C3g adapters. However you can always ask one of the eBay vendors to build adapters for you, or if you are handy, perhaps you could build your own.


----------



## benburton

benburton said:


> Thanks for the tip gibosi. I've actually just decided to order another pair of WE-408a's. I will test those, and then I can be pretty sure that either the Little Dot is defective or the GB-408a's are. Will post updates.


 
  
 Turns out it was the tubes that were defective, not the Little Dot. Now happily burning in WE-408a's.


----------



## gibosi

It is a little surprising that both tubes were defective. But for sure, it is good to know that there is nothing wrong with your amp. Enjoy!


----------



## Meddlesome Duck

Is it possible to use an adapter so the little dot I+ can support tubes such as the 6SN7 or the like?


----------



## gibosi

meddlesome duck said:


> Is it possible to use an adapter so the little dot I+ can support tubes such as the 6SN7 or the like?


 
  
 Where there is a will, there is a way. 
  
 However, it is not a simple thing to do. Given that the physical spacing between driver tubes is not consistent on LD amps, there is no universal adapter available that can simply be plugged in. In the end, it is easiest to just cobble a few parts together.
  
 1) Either a 9-pin or an octal socket mounted on a bread board to enable easy solderless wiring. Simple adapters can then be used to allow the use of other double triodes.
  
 2) Two 7-pin test sockets which are used to connect the external breadboad socket to the LD.
  
 3) A DC laptop power supply which can provide at least 1.5A at 15V. The LD can safely provide up to 0.45A of heater current, however, the 6SN7 draws 0.6A and a 5687 draws 0.9A. 
  
 4) A stepdown voltage regulator to adjust the output of the power supply to either 6.3V or 12.6V.
  
 The following post is a little out of date, but still might be useful:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/5760#post_10435226
  
 And you might end up with something that looks like this:
  

  
 Here, I am using a 9-pin breadboard socket wired up to run an E80CC at 12.6 volts. The laptop power supply is to the right, beyond the view of the camera. Evidently, the 7-pin Vector test sockets are no longer available, so it will be necessry to make something similar using 7-pin sockets as per the referenced YouTube video.
  

  
 An RCA 6SN7 with a simple adapter to allow it to be used in a 9-pin socket.
  

  
 A 5687 (I think) to show the ease of rewiring the socket to accommodate tubes with different pin-outs.
  
 So, yes, it is possible to run 6SN7 as well as many other double triodes in a Little "Monster" Dot 1+.


----------



## BzzzzzT

gibosi said:


> The pin-out for the C3m is different than the C3g, and thus, a different adapter would be necessary. So yes, the C3m will work using the 408A heater settings, but you can't use the C3g adapters. However you can always ask one of the eBay vendors to build adapters for you, or if you are handy, perhaps you could build your own.


 
  
 I tried some C3ms. They sounded good but not as good as the C3Gs IMHO. The real problem was it made the 10ohm (ver 2.0) or 20ohm resistors (ver 3.0) way too hot. They would get to scalding temperatures in around 15 seconds. With the 408A tubes, the resistors get hot but not scalding hot.


----------



## Meddlesome Duck

Wow that looks amazing, maybe one day I may attempt to try this but I seriously lack the knowledge to take on such a project.
  
 very impressive.


----------



## d4rkch1ld

bzzzzzt said:


> I tried some C3ms. They sounded good but not as good as the C3Gs IMHO. The real problem was it made the 10ohm (ver 2.0) or 20ohm resistors (ver 3.0) way too hot. They would get to scalding temperatures in around 15 seconds. With the 408A tubes, the resistors get hot but not scalding hot.


 

 How did u connect them?


----------



## gibosi

bzzzzzt said:


> I tried some C3ms. They sounded good but not as good as the C3Gs IMHO. The real problem was it made the 10ohm (ver 2.0) or 20ohm resistors (ver 3.0) way too hot. They would get to scalding temperatures in around 15 seconds. With the 408A tubes, the resistors get hot but not scalding hot.


 
  
 For sure, the C3m draws significantly more heater current than the 408A. However, controlling for the difference in voltage (volt-amperes), it is equivalent to the C3g and less than the 6AH6, so the C3m should be OK.
  
 But since you found that the C3g sounds better, and further, C3g adapters are readily available on eBay, it would seem that the C3m isn't worth the extra effort.


----------



## drofeel71

Just received my Muses02 opamp, now paired with my 6hm5 tubes using my Astell & Kern AK100 as a source...WOW! Not night and day difference from the Muses01, but definately an improvement for me...more fluid, tighter, and airier presentation...sounds fantastic to me through my AKG K550.

Now I want a pair of AKG K7XX so I can experience some fine open headphones...oh the upgraiditis it'll slaughter my wallet.


----------



## benburton

> Now I want a pair of AKG K7XX so I can experience some fine open headphones...oh the upgraiditis it'll slaughter my wallet.


 
  
 My primary setup is a Little Dot I+ with AKG K7XX, and it's a great pairing.


----------



## drofeel71

benburton said:


> My primary setup is a Little Dot I+ with AKG K7XX, and it's a great pairing.



Was considering either the K7XX through Massdrop or the K712 Pro...torn between the two!


----------



## musaji

drofeel71 said:


> Was considering either the K7XX through Massdrop or the K712 Pro...torn between the two!


 
 Same here. From what i have heard, they are pretty much the same except one is made in austria while the other in China (and is much cheaper).


----------



## NiMo7

Hi guys, i read a lot about the C3G and I want to give them a try.
 Do you have any reliable and cheap sellers that sells them? Same goes for the adapters and spacers.
 Please note that I will need an international shipping.
 Thanks.


----------



## gibosi

nimo7 said:


> Hi guys, i read a lot about the C3G and I want to give them a try.
> Do you have any reliable and cheap sellers that sells them? Same goes for the adapters and spacers.
> Please note that I will need an international shipping.
> Thanks.


 
  
 The current best price I have seen for C3g are these Lorenz:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lorenz-C3G-tube-/252051478955
  
 The Siemens are very similar, but a bit brighter.
  
 The info on adapters and spacers in the following post is still valid:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/6000#post_10512665
  
 Cheers


----------



## HeatFan12

Where you at g-man?!?
  
 I know you guys gave up on the 6AK5s and usually put different brand pairs of other tubes in the amp etc...
  
 Going through my inventory of various lots I purchased throught the years and trying to match some up.
  
 Have these TSs, both 6AK5s, one is shorter than the other and they look a little different.
  
  
 Thanks


----------



## gibosi

heatfan12 said:


> Going through my inventory of various lots I purchased throught the years and trying to match some up.
> 
> Have these TSs, both 6AK5s, one is shorter than the other and they look a little different.


 
  
 Even though they appear to be slightly different, they are both TS and there is no reason not to try them as a pair. And in fact, I know of some folks who have found that the best sound for them is a mismatched pair, one from manufacturer A and the other from manufacturer B. lol.
  
 Cheers,


----------



## HeatFan12

gibosi said:


> Even though they appear to be slightly different, they are both TS and there is no reason not to try them as a pair. And in fact, I know of some folks who have found that the best sound for them is a mismatched pair, one from manufacturer A and the other from manufacturer B. lol.
> 
> Cheers,


 
  
  
 Thanks g,
  
 They've been in a drawer for years with other strays.  Will fire them up.  Going to try and match some others too:
  
  

  
  
  
 This was a random lot I picked up.  All tested good
  
  

  
  
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Frederose

I was considering buying a LD1+ for some Beyer DT990 (250ohm). What tubes should I look for ? If the LD1+ is even worth buying for those cans.


----------



## tkoreaper

frederose said:


> I was considering buying a LD1+ for some Beyer DT990 (250ohm). What tubes should I look for ? If the LD1+ is even worth buying for those cans.


 
 I am currently using both. Biggest upgrade for me was replacing the opamp in the LD1+ to a Muses02. I'm using some milspec NOS mullards for tubes, but still waiting for some new ones to come in the mail.


----------



## musaji

Do you guys think ld+ will pair well with beyerdynamic t90? Or should I go for something better like bottlehead crack?


----------



## Frederose

I am not exactly good at soldering, but do you juste remove the old chip and put the new one in, or is it more complicated than that ?


----------



## musaji

remove the old and put in a new one. No soldering needed to replace OP-AMP.


----------



## gulakpi

The op-amp on the LD1+ is on an IC socket.  You can replace it easily without any soldering!


----------



## Frederose

Let me know how they sound. Which Mullards are you currently using ?


----------



## Frederose

tkoreaper said:


> I am currently using both. Biggest upgrade for me was replacing the opamp in the LD1+ to a Muses02. I'm using some milspec NOS mullards for tubes, but still waiting for some new ones to come in the mail.


 
 Let me know how they sound. Which Mullards are you currently using ?


----------



## tkoreaper

frederose said:


> Let me know how they sound. Which Mullards are you currently using ?


 
 Mullard CV4015 EF92 tubes. The ones I'm still waiting for are the NOS El Yugoslavia 6HM5.


----------



## Frederose

Do any of you bought tubes from TheTubeRoom on ebay ? How did it go ?


----------



## musaji

A quick question regarding 2107AP vs. MUSES02? Do you guys think MUSES02 will provide enhanced amplication over 2107AP?


----------



## gibosi

If you are asking if the MUSES02 is louder than the 2107AP, that is, does it provides more amplification, I would say no. Personally, I never noticed any difference in volume settings when rolling op amps.


----------



## musaji

gibosi said:


> If you are asking if the MUSES02 is louder than the 2107AP, that is, does it provides more amplification, I would say no. Personally, I never noticed any difference in volume settings when rolling op amps.


 
 Well I just got some HE-400s and I feel the volume could be louder, the sound could be fuller. When plugged directly into my D100 high gain, its sounds better. Hence, I am thinking to whether get MUSES02 (40-60 dollar expense) or simply get a different amplifier.


----------



## SearchOfSub

Hi, can someone recommend best Tube and op-amp for this amp. I like tubes sound with warmth, transparent, and good soundstage.


----------



## SearchOfSub

Can you tell me where I can order Muses 02


----------



## gibosi

searchofsub said:


> Can you tell me where I can order Muses 02


 
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/400418607953
  
 I ordered both the MUSES01 and the MUSES02 from this vendor.


----------



## NiMo7

Is it ok to have two different tube running at the same time? For example C3g on the right side and 6hm5 on the left?


----------



## gibosi

nimo7 said:


> Is it ok to have two different tube running at the same time? For example C3g on the right side and 6hm5 on the left?


 
  
 Yep, people do this all the time. The two circuits, left and right, are completely independent, so no problem.


----------



## NiMo7

gibosi said:


> Yep, people do this all the time. The two circuits, left and right, are completely independent, so no problem.


 
  
 ok thanks.


----------



## drago2828

Any tips on figuring out the source of a buzz/hum in the LD1+? It happens with every set of tubes I have and it depends on where the volume pot is positioned. It's most apparent at the extremes where it just sounds likes high pitched whining with a bit of buzz. It's basically silent when the pot is at about 2 or 3 o'clock though. Any help is much appreciated.


----------



## gibosi

drago2828 said:


> Any tips on figuring out the source of a buzz/hum in the LD1+? It happens with every set of tubes I have and it depends on where the volume pot is positioned. It's most apparent at the extremes where it just sounds likes high pitched whining with a bit of buzz. It's basically silent when the pot is at about 2 or 3 o'clock though. Any help is much appreciated.


 
  
 For one, tubes are inherently noisy. A tube amp, especially an inexpensive one, is just not going to be as quiet as solid-state. And two, noise at the extremes don't really matter. The only thing that matters is if your amp is quiet at your normal listening levels.


----------



## drago2828

gibosi said:


> For one, tubes are inherently noisy. A tube amp, especially an inexpensive one, is just not going to be as quiet as solid-state. And two, noise at the extremes don't really matter. The only thing that matters is if your amp is quiet at your normal listening levels.


 
  
 Thanks for the quick reply gibosi. I should have elaborated more on my problem. The problem is that at 2 or 3 o'clock it's above normal listening levels for me. At normal listening levels the noise is fairly prominent in quieter sections of my music. The other thing is that this problem manifested itself over time. I remember that when I got it that the noise I have now wasn't present. The typical interference and tube noise were there. I have also moved a couple of times since I got the amp, so could it be possible that it is noise from the outlet? If you've got any tips on troubleshooting or just common problem I should test that would be great. Again thank you very much for the help.


----------



## gibosi

drago2828 said:


> Thanks for the quick reply gibosi. I should have elaborated more on my problem. The problem is that at 2 or 3 o'clock it's above normal listening levels for me. At normal listening levels the noise is fairly prominent in quieter sections of my music. The other thing is that this problem manifested itself over time. I remember that when I got it that the noise I have now wasn't present. The typical interference and tube noise were there. I have also moved a couple of times since I got the amp, so could it be possible that it is noise from the outlet? If you've got any tips on troubleshooting or just common problem I should test that would be great. Again thank you very much for the help.


 
  
 Now that I understand the problem better, it would seem that this new noise is caused by something in your current location or something in the amp. Something quick and easy to do is to open up the amp and check to see that all the jumpers, J1, J2, J3, J4, K1 and K2 are tight and secure. And while you are at it, try a different RCA cable and power cable.
  
 To troubleshoot the location, move the amp to another room in your building to see if the noise changes. And if it doesn't change, take the amp to another building.
  
 If the noise is constant in multiple locations, this would suggest that something is failing inside the amp. If you purchased the amp directly from Little Dot, they will fix it free of charge.
  
 http://www.littledot.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=442&sid=00ada14845d8ce17d7b3e5b74f5949e5
  
 Good luck!


----------



## thedude22

I just received my LD+ and it's ringing regardless of what tubes or setting I'm used. It's not an extremely high pitched ring like the vali but it's much louder and hasn't gone away. Left it on for a couple of hours. Do I need a replacement or is there a fix or something I'm doing wrong?


----------



## gibosi

thedude22 said:


> I just received my LD+ and it's ringing regardless of what tubes or setting I'm used. It's not an extremely high pitched ring like the vali but it's much louder and hasn't gone away. Left it on for a couple of hours. Do I need a replacement or is there a fix or something I'm doing wrong?


 
  
 As the LD+ and the Vali both have noise issues, I am inclined to think it is your location, and likely your electrical power. If you can, take the LD+ to another building, a friend's house perhaps, and see if it is still noisy.
  
 Good luck!


----------



## thedude22

Definitely possible as I just moved. However my o2's and other ss are fine, notsure if that matters, and the Vali was experienced at my old house whenever you would hit it hard and/or when first turning it on then would dissipate. This one is an constant loud ring but a very low frequency ring. I'll check and report back. Thanks.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

deleted,wrong thread.


----------



## musaji

Guys, I am selling my little dot. If anyone you know who might be looking for this wonderful opportunity, here is your chance. 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/786465/little-dot-i-headphone-amp-with-upgrade-ef92-voskhods-burr-brown-opa2107ap


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

I just received my way-overdue OP2107 and it really makes a great difference on my I+. 
  
 I also shipped a 8066AR but it turned out to be tiny and of course didn't fit on the I+. I don't know why I did that, but anyway I'm totally ignorant on this.
  
 Can you guys recommend some great choice for the I+? Will this one greatly complement the OP2017 (and of course, will it fit on the I+)?
  
 Thanks.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/LM4562NA-Dual-High-Performance-Audio-Op-Amp-IC-LM4562-/360324403926?hash=item53e50212d6mZtl1j9TvCVGyqwRXG0y4QQ


----------



## i luvmusic 2

MY 1+ still having a surgery.............


----------



## musaji

repairs?


----------



## drofeel71

williamleonhart said:


> I just received my way-overdue OP2107 and it really makes a great difference on my I+.
> 
> I also shipped a 8066AR but it turned out to be tiny and of course didn't fit on the I+. I don't know why I did that, but anyway I'm totally ignorant on this.
> 
> ...



For me...my end game opamp has to be the Muses02, recommended by gibosi, have it paired with some 6HM5 tubes, tall bottle version, really smooth, refined and detailed, compliments my AK100 and AKG K550s nicely to my ears. That's the beauty of this amp, with the opamp and tube rolling options, find a pairing that suits your gear and ears and have fun. Gets very addictive though, fortunately not too expensive for tubes and opamps, trawling this thread really helped me get pointed in the right direction.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Thanks for the recommendation on the MUSE02. I really gave it a lot of thoughts when Gibosi mentioned it, but it really costs too much for me now. The opa2107 on the other hand, less than a pizza. 

On the I+ humming, my old one also had that problem and in the end had to send it back for warranty. And yep the I+ is really really susceptible to noise, so much that I never let my iphone near it. But after trying all the possible options, it's pretty much clear that I can do nothing but send it in


----------



## drofeel71

williamleonhart said:


> Thanks for the recommendation on the MUSE02. I really gave it a lot of thoughts when Gibosi mentioned it, but it really costs too much for me now. The opa2107 on the other hand, less than a pizza.
> 
> On the I+ humming, my old one also had that problem and in the end had to send it back for warranty. And yep the I+ is really really susceptible to noise, so much that I never let my iphone near it. But after trying all the possible options, it's pretty much clear that I can do nothing but send it in




I hunted for my Muses02 for ages and finally found a seller through Amazon. I think it cost me about £20, nowhere near the price on other sites and it's genuine. It's head and shoulders above opa2107 as I'd bought that previously.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

musaji said:


> repairs?


 
 Yes,Tube adapters are expensive so i'am making my own version builtin to the chassis.


----------



## Vandelay

Hi,
 I recently received my I+ and found that the layout of the circuit board differs a bit from the ones I've seen previously, so I figured I'd post it here for reference as well as ask some questions. It is listed as Little Dot I+_v4.0 (ordered from Shenzhenaudio with the WE408A tubes) and 2015-01.
  
 It seems I can't include pictures as a newbie, so I've uploaded it to tinypic: http://i67.tinypic.com/wvnxbp.png (Sorry for the fuzzy image, I can take another photo later today if anyone is interested.)
  
 In comparison to the reference pic and guide (http://littledot.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=819&sid=2ab5e576ada03c21cd7e7b585f12666b and https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6037680/Little%20Dot%20I%2B%20Reference%20Guide.pdf) it seems that J1' on version 4.0 corresponds to J2. It also has two dip switches, but also jumpers marked K1, K2, K3 ..? Can someone bring some clarity to this? I'm assuming it is now setup correctly for WE408A (i.e. no jumpers on J1 and J1', switches set away from 6J1), but can anyone clarify what the jumpers K1-K3 does? Do they (or just two of them) control the gain? The paper manual included shows the same layout as in the reference guide above, i.e. not as the build I received.
  
 Thanks for any help I get. Loving the amp so far, looking forward to playing with the opamp and tube options!


----------



## gibosi

vandelay said:


> Hi,
> I recently received my I+ and found that the layout of the circuit board differs a bit from the ones I've seen previously, so I figured I'd post it here for reference as well as ask some questions. It is listed as Little Dot I+_v4.0 (ordered from Shenzhenaudio with the WE408A tubes) and 2015-01.
> 
> In comparison to the reference pic and guide (http://littledot.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=819&sid=2ab5e576ada03c21cd7e7b585f12666b and https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6037680/Little%20Dot%20I%2B%20Reference%20Guide.pdf) it seems that J1' on version 4.0 corresponds to J2. It also has two dip switches, but also jumpers marked K1, K2, K3 ..? Can someone bring some clarity to this? I'm assuming it is now setup correctly for WE408A (i.e. no jumpers on J1 and J1', switches set away from 6J1), but can anyone clarify what the jumpers K1-K3 does? Do they (or just two of them) control the gain? The paper manual included shows the same layout as in the reference guide above, i.e. not as the build I received.
> ...


 
  
 Little Dot has not updated the manual, so I assume the manual is still valid:
  
 J3 and J4 are used to adjust the gain of the amp. If you are running 300 ohm cans, you might want to try changing these jumpers to see which works best.
  
 K1, K2, J1 and J2 are used to accommodate different kinds of tubes (page 9 of the manual). However, I do not see a K3... maybe it is J3?


----------



## Vandelay

gibosi said:


> Little Dot has not updated the manual, so I assume the manual is still valid:
> 
> J3 and J4 are used to adjust the gain of the amp. If you are running 300 ohm cans, you might want to try changing these jumpers to see which works best.
> 
> K1, K2, J1 and J2 are used to accommodate different kinds of tubes (page 9 of the manual). However, I do not see a K3... maybe it is J3?



 


Hi. Not sure if you looked at the picture of my board (the tinypic link), but afaik there are no jumpers marked J2-5, instead there is J1' (which I gather to be J2) and K1-K3. Which is why I'm looking for some more information..


----------



## gibosi

> Hi. Not sure if you looked at the picture of my board (the tinypic link), but afaik there are no jumpers marked J2-5, instead there is J1' (which I gather to be J2) and K1-K3. Which is why I'm looking for some more information..


 
  
 As the picture is not very clear, I admit, that I didn't try to look at it closely. However, taking another look, I do see K1, K2 and K3. As my amp is older, I do not have these jumpers and I have no idea of their purpose. Further, the picture does not allow me to see enough detail to try to make an intelligent guess. And worse, it appears that Little Dot has not updated their online manual. So the best advice I can give you is to contact Little Dot and ask for an updated manual.
  
 Good luck!


----------



## PabloSRT8

Hi, I'm new here, and even though I have my LDi+ for over a year, I never did anything to it.
I have Grado 325se and I mostly use my iPhone 6s Plus to listen to things like Pink Floyd, Foo Fighters or Dana del Ray.
Sometimes I would use my iPod Classic with uncompressed Jazz at the PownShop or CDs
I read some tunes reconnections and some MUSES02 also.
For my set up and music, what would you recommend?
Are MUSES02 alone enough? Do I need tubes upgrade with them? Or not worth it since my set up is not that good?
Any help is welcome.
Thank you!


----------



## Vandelay

gibosi said:


> As the picture is not very clear, I admit, that I didn't try to look at it closely. However, taking another look, I do see K1, K2 and K3. As my amp is older, I do not have these jumpers and I have no idea of their purpose. Further, the picture does not allow me to see enough detail to try to make an intelligent guess. And worse, it appears that Little Dot has not updated their online manual. So the best advice I can give you is to contact Little Dot and ask for an updated manual.
> 
> Good luck!


 
  
 Thanks. I asked for a new manual, and they have updated the date in the reference guide right now, but it still does not look like my board. Anyways, I figured it out - on the 4.0 board, the jumpers J1 and J1' correspond to J1 and J2, and K1-K3 (which are now jumpers settings, not dip switches) should be set either pointing towards 6J1 or 408A. The dip switches on the board control the gain.
  
 I've now tried it with Voshkod 6J1P-EV tubes, and am loving the sound. Except for a low humming noise which I did not hear when using the 408A tubes. The sound also disappear/lower when I touch the Little Dot .. I take it that the Voshkod tubes are more susceptible to interference, but can anyone give me some help on how to improve this, i.e. get rid of the mis-sound with the Voshkods?
  
 Thanks,
 Vandelay


----------



## gibosi

vandelay said:


> I've now tried it with Voshkod 6J1P-EV tubes, and am loving the sound. Except for a low humming noise which I did not hear when using the 408A tubes. The sound also disappear/lower when I touch the Little Dot .. I take it that the Voshkod tubes are more susceptible to interference, but can anyone give me some help on how to improve this, i.e. get rid of the mis-sound with the Voshkods?


 
  
 I number of people have reported that the higher voltage tubes, for example, 12.6, 20 and 25.2, tend to be quieter than 6.3 volt tubes. However, before coming to any conclusions about your Voskhods, I would suggest that they need to be burned in for at least 20 hours, and some suggest 50, or more, before they quiet down.


----------



## Vandelay

gibosi said:


> I number of people have reported that the higher voltage tubes, for example, 12.6, 20 and 25.2, tend to be quieter than 6.3 volt tubes. However, before coming to any conclusions about your Voskhods, I would suggest that they need to be burned in for at least 20 hours, and some suggest 50, or more, before they quiet down.


 

 That's very valuable information, thank you. I will let them run for a while before I decide whether to take action (buy a ground loop insulator to start with?) or not.


----------



## iamxLn

http://www.ssaudio.com.au/products/supreme-sound-opamp-v5/

anyone tried this opamp?


----------



## gibosi

iamxln said:


> http://www.ssaudio.com.au/products/supreme-sound-opamp-v5/
> 
> anyone tried this opamp?


 
  
 I haven't... but I think you should! 
  
 The only potential problem I see is that it might be too tall to fit inside the case.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Just to be sure, will this 6hm5 fit my I+? I ordered it, but suddenly realized it look too different from my other tubes
  

  
 The listing is here
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/EI-6HM5-EC900-6HA5-6HQ5-former-Yugoslavia-MATCHED-PAIR-TUBE-NOS-/400771715218?hash=item5d4fdb1092:grcAAOSwDk5UEhHk
  
 Best Regards,


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

pablosrt8 said:


> Hi, I'm new here, and even though I have my LDi+ for over a year, I never did anything to it.
> I have Grado 325se and I mostly use my iPhone 6s Plus to listen to things like Pink Floyd, Foo Fighters or Dana del Ray.
> Sometimes I would use my iPod Classic with uncompressed Jazz at the PownShop or CDs
> I read some tunes reconnections and some MUSES02 also.
> ...


 
 I have not tried the MUSES02 yet, but for what the OPA2107 has done to my I+, I'd assume that the MUSES will do wonders as well. Not to mention gibosi has always recommended it to every one here.
  
 I don't think the stock tubes (any kind) would do the I+ justice. With a nice opamp and a nice pair of tubes (which may be less than $10), you'd get the most from your I+.


----------



## iamxLn

I just switched back from the 2107 to the lm4562 after 2 months, main tube I use is still the yugos. Lm4562 is much better to me for all my headphones. More soundstage, tighter bass with same impact.


----------



## gibosi

williamleonhart said:


> Just to be sure, will this 6hm5 fit my I+? I ordered it, but suddenly realized it look too different from my other tubes


 
  
 Yes, it will work fine on the EF95 setting.


----------



## EastKingZ

My LD comes in on Tuesday along with some GE 5654. I don't have any experience with amps and thought this would be a great entry unit. At the moment, i'm running new DT770 pro 80 ohm through my pc. They sound amazing (I have no comparison on hand) but I have the volume maxed and it's just under a pleasurable volume. I also purchased a Modi 2 from Schiit to help that out.
  
 I've tried looking for instructions on tube rolling but have come up dry. If anyone can point me too something that might help me out that would be great! Is it plug and play? I've noticed     that people move switches connected to the pcb inside the amp as well. I'm just looking for some detail so I know i'm doing what I can to have this amp perform.


----------



## iamxLn

it comes with a little book to tell you which jumpers to use with each type of tube, you unscrew the bottom and move them around as needed. old tubes pull out, new ones plug in, use a rolling motion to remove them. you'll get it pretty easily. the opamp is in the bottom when you remove it as well. imo the opamp made as much of a difference as the tubes.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

You can find the manual here too:
 http://www.littledot.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=819
  
 It include the instructions to increase gains, which is exactly what you need when the volume is too low.
  
 And be sure to try tube-rolling and opamp-rolling. With the stock ones you're only getting 40% of what the I+ is capable of.


----------



## EastKingZ

This is great, thanks. I'll check out the little dot forums.


----------



## EastKingZ

So I have had a few days to play around with my LD i+. There is a slight channel imbalance throughout the entire volume range on the amp. I have switched the stock tubes to the other side and the imbalance does not change. Ive rotated the headphones and the same cup is imbalanced so my hearing is not a factor. I've moved the amp away from all interferences and nothing changed.
  
 When my headphones are plugged directly into my motherboard they are perfectly balanced. I'm going to try some new tubes today but I have my doubts. Ive checked all switches and jumpers which seem to be in place and seated correctly. I have not tried a higher gain setting. Currently the gain is low (Both dip switches set towards ON) but I will try a higher gain (1+2) later today when I get home. I've been told the entire volume knob/pot could be imbalanced.
  
 Also, I have tried different RCA cables (setup is PC > Modi2 > LDi+ > DT770 80 Pro).
  
 If there is anything else I could try that would be great.
  
 I have the 4th revision of the board. It has J1 and J1' pins, K1, K2, and K3 all jumped on the 6ji side and the switches are towards on. This amp came with the 6JI tubes.
  
 Thank you for reading!


----------



## i luvmusic 2

If swapping tubes/cables doesn't changed anything try removing the MODI2 if their is any changes in balance and check your PC's audio setup.My 1+ used to have a slight channel imbalanced(on low volume only)until i replaced the volume pot now it's all good.


----------



## EastKingZ

So.... I fixed it! I was so disappointed with the channel imbalance because I was so excited to play around with this thing. I was determined to fix it today. I wanted to post my solution in case anyone else has the same problem and is looking for answers.
  
 Little Dot i+ Channel Imbalance 
  
 After I did everything in my previous post I only had a couple of things to try. One was switching the gain from both switches at ON to both switches at 1 and 2. (I still run my PC volume at 75% and the amp at 50%, same as when the switches were the other way. It is slightly louder but not by much.)
  
 While I had the chassis open I decided to take the whole thing apart. I removed the PCB from the chassis, took off all panels, and inspected each connection. For good measure I re-soldered the RCA inputs on the back. I wiggled the volume pot around to make sure it was solid. I re-seated the opAmp just to be sure because it looked a little lopsided. I put it back together and sealed it up nice and tight and plugged it in. 
  
 I left the DAC connected because I didn't want to change too many variables outside of the amp. 
  
 I put the headphones on and booted up some Stevie Ray. BOOM. Centered perfectly. I could hear Tommy Shannon's fingers sliding off the bass strings right between my eyes.
  
 Sorry that this was a little off topic.
  
 Anyway, my GE JAN 5654W's came in today. I threw them in right away and am burning them in as we speak. So far they are great but I have no reference other than the imbalanced 6ji's that I didn't listen to for more than 10 minutes at a time. The bass seems a little more recessed compared to a direct route from my PC but I feel like it will change with time. 
  
 Here are some pictures!


----------



## Angelo88

Hi guys i'm Angelo i'm Italian and i have the littledot i+ 4.0 with opa lm4562 and 1975 voskhod tubes...i had another little dot before and i send it back for a problem... With this one i hear a brighter sound, sometimes harsh with the "s" and with a poor bass...the gain is set to 1 i use grado sr125...i receive the new one yesterday so all components will be burned for hours but my doubt is on the power transformer...when i put on the amp i hear a electric sound that comes from inside the amp...nothing in the headphone with volume h12...a little bit with full volume( it is normal i think)...i repeat my doubt is for electrical power...like a continuous "zzzzz"... Other guys with 4.0 version that notice the same? Thanks and sorry for my english


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

iamxln said:


> I just switched back from the 2107 to the lm4562 after 2 months, main tube I use is still the yugos. Lm4562 is much better to me for all my headphones. More soundstage, tighter bass with same impact.



Can you give me the link to buy the lm4562? I can look opamps up on ebay but am afraid that I could buy a incompatible one...


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

eastkingz said:


> Anyway, my GE JAN 5654W's came in today. I threw them in right away and am burning them in as we speak. So far they are great but I have no reference other than the imbalanced 6ji's that I didn't listen to for more than 10 minutes at a time. The bass seems a little more recessed compared to a direct route from my PC but I feel like it will change with time.
> 
> Here are some pictures!


 The bass of the JAN tubes is definitely something I'd described as 'recessed'. It puts more emphasis on the mids. With these tubes electric guitars sound really nice, especially the distorted overdriven ones. I've had these tubes for like three months and they're my most favourite tubes to combine with my grados.


----------



## EastKingZ

That's a good point, blues guitar sounds wonderful.


----------



## gibosi

williamleonhart said:


> Can you give me the link to buy the lm4562? I can look opamps up on ebay but am afraid that I could buy a incompatible one...


 
  
 I have purchased numerous op amps from this eBay vendor:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/LM4562NA-Dual-High-Performance-Audio-Op-Amp-IC-LM4562-/360324403926


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

gibosi said:


> I have purchased numerous op amps from this eBay vendor:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/LM4562NA-Dual-High-Performance-Audio-Op-Amp-IC-LM4562-/360324403926


Thanks gibosi, I have shipped 2 opamps from this vendor and while there's no problem with shipping, one of them turns out to be too small for the I+. I'm not sure why I shipped that one but I must have read about it somewhere. 
Anyway, what is the "keyword" I should look for to make sure that an opamp is compatible with my I+? From the picture only it's really hard to tell which one is big and which is small.


----------



## gibosi

williamleonhart said:


> Thanks gibosi, I have shipped 2 opamps from this vendor and while there's no problem with shipping, one of them turns out to be too small for the I+. I'm not sure why I shipped that one but I must have read about it somewhere.
> Anyway, what is the "keyword" I should look for to make sure that an opamp is compatible with my I+? From the picture only it's really hard to tell which one is big and which is small.


 
  
 I do not have the necessary knowledge or expertise to figure out which op amps are compatible and which are not....
  
 When first I got my LD1+, I did what many others do, I searched this thread to find op amps that others had tried. Obviously, if it worked in their amps, I figured it should would work in mine.
  
 However, when I first came across the Muses01 and Muses02, I couldn't find any information about using them in the LD1+. So to be safe, I asked David at Little Dot. With his positive reply, I then felt comfortable in purchasing the Muses op amps.


----------



## nahpungnome

Welp, my Voskhod tubes came in and I did a quick A/B against the stock 6JIs.  I did swap out my opamp to the OPA2107 a while ago.  I'm using my Fidelio X2s for testing.
  
 I know that the tubes need to be broken in and I'm comparing my broken in 6JIs to a NOS tube, but there was an immediate difference, especially in the treble.  I thought with the stock tubes, the amp sounded great (and I still do), but with the Voskohds, it's clear that the supplied tubes don't bring out the best sound this amp can produce.
  
 There seems to be more impact across the frequency range and the treble as I mentioned before was the thing that stood out the most.  But...I'm repacking them to use for later because I want to use the supplied tubes first lol.  I just wanted to do a function test to make sure they worked, but I am excited and can't wait for the day for my 6JIs to degrade to the point where they need to be replaced


----------



## Arsis

nahpungnome said:


> Welp, my Voskhod tubes came in and I did a quick A/B against the stock 6JIs.  I did swap out my opamp to the OPA2107 a while ago.  I'm using my Fidelio X2s for testing.
> 
> I know that the tubes need to be broken in and I'm comparing my broken in 6JIs to a NOS tube, but there was an immediate difference, especially in the treble.  I thought with the stock tubes, the amp sounded great (and I still do), but with the Voskohds, it's clear that the supplied tubes don't bring out the best sound this amp can produce.
> 
> There seems to be more impact across the frequency range and the treble as I mentioned before was the thing that stood out the most.  But...I'm repacking them to use for later because I want to use the supplied tubes first lol.  I just wanted to do a function test to make sure they worked, but I am excited and can't wait for the day for my 6JIs to degrade to the point where they need to be replaced


You may be waiting a while. Tubes can last a very long time.


----------



## nahpungnome

arsis said:


> You may be waiting a while. Tubes can last a very long time.


 
 LOL, yeah, I'm probably going to switch them out after listening to my HE400i through the 6JIs for a week.


----------



## Arsis

nahpungnome said:


> LOL, yeah, I'm probably going to switch them out after listening to my HE400i through the 6JIs for a week.


I couldn't get the 6JIs out soon enough. Too harsh for me. I found NOS WE408A from the 1950's. I also have OPA2107.


----------



## iamxLn

angelo88 said:


> Hi guys i'm Angelo i'm Italian and i have the littledot i+ 4.0 with opa lm4562 and 1975 voskhod tubes...i had another little dot before and i send it back for a problem... With this one i hear a brighter sound, sometimes harsh with the "s" and with a poor bass...the gain is set to 1 i use grado sr125...i receive the new one yesterday so all components will be burned for hours but my doubt is on the power transformer...when i put on the amp i hear a electric sound that comes from inside the amp...nothing in the headphone with volume h12...a little bit with full volume( it is normal i think)...i repeat my doubt is for electrical power...like a continuous "zzzzz"... Other guys with 4.0 version that notice the same? Thanks and sorry for my english


 
 switch to the yugo tubes and it'll have more bass and less tizzy sound while still being detailed. at least for me, with the same set up. I use high gain for what it's worth.


----------



## Michael V

Just got my 1+ today. I have the bottom open I'm trying to set the switch 1 and switch 2 position to on for the lowest gain as per the manual. But all I see are two jumpers on k2 and I see a j2 with nothing on it and another one labled ON:EF92 which doesnt have a jumper on it either. Anyone have a picture or can tell me what I need to do to put it on the lowest gain? Thanks.
  
 Also I looked at this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqaNwG1Ls2Y  and it seems like mine has a different circuit board without the switches and it has the jumpers in its place so I'm kinda confused lol.


----------



## nahpungnome

michael v said:


> Just got my 1+ today. I have the bottom open I'm trying to set the switch 1 and switch 2 position to on for the lowest gain as per the manual. But all I see are two jumpers on k2 and I see a j2 with nothing on it and another one labled ON:EF92 which doesnt have a jumper on it either. Anyone have a picture or can tell me what I need to do to put it on the lowest gain? Thanks.
> 
> Also I looked at this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqaNwG1Ls2Y  and it seems like mine has a different circuit board without the switches and it has the jumpers in its place so I'm kinda confused lol.


 
 I thought they came with the lowest gain set by default?


----------



## Michael V

nahpungnome said:


> I thought they came with the lowest gain set by default?


 
 I just want to make sure because I bought it used so the person before me could've changed the gain.


----------



## nahpungnome

michael v said:


> I just want to make sure because I bought it used so the person before me could've changed the gain.


 
 Ah, understood.  The only time I opened mine up was to change the op-amp to an AP2107, but I left the gain alone.  There are revisions to the circuit boards for sure, sorry I'm no help there.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

nahpungnome said:


> michael v said:
> 
> 
> > I just want to make sure because I bought it used so the person before me could've changed the gain.
> ...


 
 How do you like the AP2107?I have switch between few OP amps and i can't tell any difference at all it's not like tube rolling.


----------



## nahpungnome

i luvmusic 2 said:


> How do you like the AP2107?I have switch between few OP amps and i can't tell any difference at all it's not like tube rolling.


 
 the biggest difference i hear is the bass, it seems better controlled...but it is a subtle difference.  i figured for 10bux, it wouldnt hurt


----------



## i luvmusic 2

nahpungnome said:


> i luvmusic 2 said:
> 
> 
> > How do you like the AP2107?I have switch between few OP amps and i can't tell any difference at all it's not like tube rolling.
> ...


 
 Yeah that's what i thought about the 2107 and the rest of the opamps i have that is why i did not bother rolling opamps,but then i have itch for the MUSES 2


----------



## nahpungnome

i luvmusic 2 said:


> Yeah that's what i thought about the 2107 and the rest of the opamps i have that is why i did not bother rolling opamps,but then i have itch for the MUSES 2


 
 Yeah, I seem to hear a lot about the MUSES02, but man, at that price...would rather buy another set of cans for a little more lol


----------



## i luvmusic 2

nahpungnome said:


> i luvmusic 2 said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah that's what i thought about the 2107 and the rest of the opamps i have that is why i did not bother rolling opamps,but then i have itch for the MUSES 2
> ...


 
 Or another 1+.


----------



## gibosi

michael v said:


> Just got my 1+ today. I have the bottom open I'm trying to set the switch 1 and switch 2 position to on for the lowest gain as per the manual. But all I see are two jumpers on k2 and I see a j2 with nothing on it and another one labled ON:EF92 which doesnt have a jumper on it either. Anyone have a picture or can tell me what I need to do to put it on the lowest gain? Thanks.
> 
> Also I looked at this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqaNwG1Ls2Y  and it seems like mine has a different circuit board without the switches and it has the jumpers in its place so I'm kinda confused lol.


 
  
 As there have been a number of different circuit board revisions over time, I suggest you post a picture of yours and perhaps then, we can help you.


----------



## Michael V

gibosi said:


> As there have been a number of different circuit board revisions over time, I suggest you post a picture of yours and perhaps then, we can help you.


----------



## gibosi

I see that yours is version 2.0, whereas, more recent amps are version 4.0 (or maybe higher). And comparing pictures of version 2.0 and 4.0 boards, it looks to me that your older board doesn't have gain control switches...
  
 Did your amp come with the original manual? If not, maybe there is someone else reading this forum with a version 2.0 amp and still has the manual, who would be willing to jump in here?


----------



## gulakpi

michael v said:


>


 
  
  Looks like this may come to rescue.......  Quoted from the LD1+ manual.    Try Jumpers J3 & J4
  

  
 "Little Dot I+ Gain Control   
 The Little Dot I+ has two internal jumpers, that control the gain of the amplifier.  You can access the gain switches by removing the lower half of the chassis.  Please power off the amplifier, and unplug it for at least 10 minutes before attempting to change the gain settings (to ensure capacitors have fully discharged).  In addition, please take steps to ground yourself before handing the circuit as static discharge can kill the amplifier!   

 Near one of the tube sockets, the jumpers that control gain are J3 and J4.  When J3 and J4 are capped, the gain for each channel is set to 3.5.  When the jumper cap is removed (open circuit), the circuit gain is set to 7.   
 IMPORTANT: Please be careful when setting switches and jumper caps as these are circuit elements and will be fairly delicate.  Using too much force may result in damage! "


----------



## Michael V

gulakpi said:


> Looks like this may come to rescue.......  Quoted from the LD1+ manual.    Try Jumpers J3 & J4
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks! It looks like the jumper caps are already on j3 and j4. I looked at the newest version of the manual and it says the gain is 2.5 when set to the lowest gain. Do the newer versions of this amp have different gain values? Just wondering because I don't crank the volume pot past 10 with Grado RS2e headphones.
  
 Also I'm getting a slight humming/hissing sound that I wasn't getting before. Even with the volume all the way down. It wasn't doing that yesterday. I had it running overnight for 8 hours to burn in.


----------



## Michael V

The hissing went away and only a very slight hum coming from the amp even with volume all the way down. Used it for a few hours and let it rest for about 5 hours and turned it on again and a loud hissing sound is coming through.
  
 I was searching the internet and found these very rare Voshkod gold-platinum grid, gold pin 6ZH1P-EV OTK 7 tubes and ordered 2 pairs straight from Russia. They were pretty expensive at $46 for a pair but they are NOS and from 1977. I currently have the same tube but the 1985 version with normal pins and not gold-platinum grid. I heard the ones from the 70s are better sounding and I wanted to get the highest quality version of these tubes since they already sound amazing and I think my current tubes may be the reason why i have the hissing issue.
  

  
 Next I want to upgrade my opamp. I already have the OPA2107 and I see people here talking about the muses 02 and saw someone mention the supreme sound burson v5 opamp. I see everyone talking highly of the muses, but has anyone here used the burson or can confirm it will fit in the 1+ housing? The muses02 is $40 and the burson is $70 so I might as well opt for the burson if it's better and also because they have a 30 day return policy in case I don't like them.


----------



## rovopio

Hi everybody! May I ask you guys about MUSES02?
 Amazon sells it,Do you guys have any idea whether a particular MUSES02 opamp is original or not? (Since the surface plate on eBay is silver-ish while the picture on Amazon it's black-ish).
  
 The link http://www.amazon.com/New-Japan-Radio-Operational-Amplifier/dp/B00B086ZTQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1452247065&sr=8-1&keywords=muses02


----------



## gibosi

rovopio said:


> Hi everybody! May I ask you guys about MUSES02?
> Amazon sells it,Do you guys have any idea whether a particular MUSES02 opamp is original or not? (Since the surface plate on eBay is silver-ish while the picture on Amazon it's black-ish).
> 
> The link http://www.amazon.com/New-Japan-Radio-Operational-Amplifier/dp/B00B086ZTQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1452247065&sr=8-1&keywords=muses02


 
  
 It is very difficult to tell from pictures on a web site if an opamp is genuine or fake. Given that this is fulfilled by Amazon, I would think this is almost certainly genuine. And if not, being Amazon, it is very easy to return. While I seriously doubt that the "great majority of those for sale are fake", as one reviewer claims, of course, it is always best to purchase from a trusted seller. Once you have a Muses in your hands, the easiest way to determine if it is genuine (other than the sound) is to check the legs. The copper legs on Muses opamps are significantly softer and more easily bent compared to a normal DIP 8 opamp.
  
 I have purchased several opamps, including the Muses01 and 02 from the eBay vendor *janeh2100*, and have no doubt that mine are genuine. 
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/400418607953


----------



## rovopio

> Originally Posted by *gibosi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I have purchased several opamps, including the Muses01 and 02 from the eBay vendor *janeh2100*, and have no doubt that mine are genuine.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/400418607953


 
  
 Thank you for the picture! I'll keep your picture in mind should I decided to get the Muses02. I uh... I actually bought an opa2107 from janeh2100. I asked for shipping with tracking, and the seller agreed to ship it with tracking number with an extra several $ to be paid to their paypal directly.
  
 And uh... it got shipped to Ukraine. I live in Asia by the way. So I'm... not that eager to buy something from them anymore. Actually, despite the eBay information saying that the seller location being in Hong Kong, my OPA2107 showed that the shipping origin was Malaysia. That doesn't matter in itself, it's just that my OPA2107 tracking information showed that it got shipped to Ukraine, that was disappointing.
  
 I guess it's an isolated incident though. My guess is that the OPA2107 is being shipped by some other vendor in Malaysia (a business partner probably?) while the eBay vendor themselves is in Hong Kong, so the Malaysia partner was the one who made the mistake.
  
 Edit: I'm sure from the many that have bought from that eBay vendor here, that what happened to me was just a mix-up. It's just that Ukraine is not even in the same continent with where I currently live. Also, the OPA2107 got to me eventually.


----------



## nahpungnome

Anyone try a Burson Supreme OpAmp v4 or v5?   Being that they're so tall, I don't even know if they'd fit in the chassis.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

I have no doubt it will fit in mine...............


----------



## nahpungnome

i luvmusic 2 said:


> I have no doubt it will fit in mine...............


 
 LOL, well done, well done.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

However i don't use mine anymore.


----------



## Michael V

nahpungnome said:


> Anyone try a Burson Supreme OpAmp v4 or v5?   Being that they're so tall, I don't even know if they'd fit in the chassis.


 
  
  
 Burson sells extenders so you can have the opamp sideways if it doesn't fit straight up.
  
  
  


i luvmusic 2 said:


> I have no doubt it will fit in mine...............


 
  
  
 What are those wires coming out of it?


----------



## i luvmusic 2

Those are for the tubes that i used to roll instead of buying a adapter i soldered the wires directly to the sockets then i gutted it so no need for me to buy adapters per tubes i can roll tubes without buying any expensive adapters(see first picture that is what my 1+ look like after i gutted it).


----------



## nahpungnome

Can someone tell me the ideal position for volume on my I+?  I have a DAC that has a pre-amp lineout so it has volume control also (it also has a amp on it, it's the Micca Origen).  
  
 Should I max out the amp's volume and attenuate with my pre-amp? Or somewhere in between?  When I tried max on amp and attenuating on the pre-amp, the treble sounded grainy, but the bass sounded good.  When I'm at 50% on the amp, the bass doesn't seem as good.  75% on the amp seems to be the sweet spot so far <shrug>.


----------



## Michael V

nahpungnome said:


> Can someone tell me the ideal position for volume on my I+?  I have a DAC that has a pre-amp lineout so it has volume control also (it also has a amp on it, it's the Micca Origen).
> 
> Should I max out the amp's volume and attenuate with my pre-amp? Or somewhere in between?  When I tried max on amp and attenuating on the pre-amp, the treble sounded grainy, but the bass sounded good.  When I'm at 50% on the amp, the bass doesn't seem as good.  75% on the amp seems to be the sweet spot so far <shrug>.


 
 I was always told to keep the source at 100% volume. I normally have the 1+ volume knob under the 10 line because i have 32ohm grado's. I just tried to see how low i had to turn my source to get even 50 on the 1+ volume knob and I had to put my source volume from 100 to 10. Needless to say I didn't hear any difference in bass or anything, but I started to hear even louder hum/hiss from the tubes than I already do when I have no music playing.


----------



## nahpungnome

michael v said:


> I was always told to keep the source at 100% volume. I normally have the 1+ volume knob under the 10 line because i have 32ohm grado's. I just tried to see how low i had to turn my source to get even 50 on the 1+ volume knob and I had to put my source volume from 100 to 10. Needless to say I didn't hear any difference in bass or anything, but I started to hear even louder hum/hiss from the tubes than I already do when I have no music playing.


 
  
  
 My thinking the amp should be at 100% was maybe due to my old-school home audio thinking.  My dad has Onkyo M504 and the preamp (forgot which model).  There's no volume on the M504, the preamp controlled the volume, so I figure the amp was outputting at 100%.
  
 I've also read that the source should be at 100%, but my dac/amp at 100% does 1.7V line out, not sure if that matters or not.


----------



## Michael V

I've decided I'm gonna upgrade form the opa2107 to the burson v5. They have two different versions on the website and it says pair for each one. I wonder why they don't sell them by themselves and not in pairs. Anyway I'm not sure if I should get the single or dual. If I do need to get the dual then i need to find a site that doesn't sell in pairs.
  
 http://www.partsconnexion.com/79214.html
  
 http://www.partsconnexion.com/79212.html


----------



## gulakpi

michael v said:


> I've decided I'm gonna upgrade form the opa2107 to the burson v5. They have two different versions on the website and it says pair for each one. I wonder why they don't sell them by themselves and not in pairs. Anyway I'm not sure if I should get the single or dual. If I do need to get the dual then i need to find a site that doesn't sell in pairs.
> 
> http://www.partsconnexion.com/79214.html
> 
> http://www.partsconnexion.com/79212.html


 
 While I do not own a LD1+, I thought the LD1+ only uses one piece of "Dual Opamp".
 Also, I'm just curious if this discrete opamp will fit in the LD1+ physically.  They look quite tall to me!


----------



## nahpungnome

michael v said:


> I've decided I'm gonna upgrade form the opa2107 to the burson v5. They have two different versions on the website and it says pair for each one. I wonder why they don't sell them by themselves and not in pairs. Anyway I'm not sure if I should get the single or dual. If I do need to get the dual then i need to find a site that doesn't sell in pairs.
> 
> http://www.partsconnexion.com/79214.html
> 
> http://www.partsconnexion.com/79212.html


 
 Can't you buy from Burson directly?


----------



## iamxLn

michael v said:


> I've decided I'm gonna upgrade form the opa2107 to the burson v5. They have two different versions on the website and it says pair for each one. I wonder why they don't sell them by themselves and not in pairs. Anyway I'm not sure if I should get the single or dual. If I do need to get the dual then i need to find a site that doesn't sell in pairs.
> 
> http://www.partsconnexion.com/79214.html
> 
> http://www.partsconnexion.com/79212.html


 
 let us know how it sounds!


----------



## Michael V

nahpungnome said:


> Can't you buy from Burson directly?


 
 I didn't see the buy link at the bottom of their website lol.
  


iamxln said:


> let us know how it sounds!


 
 Thought it was only gonna be $70, but it's $20 shipping and then $20 for the extender so it can fit in the case. So I'm gonna wait a bit until I buy it.


----------



## nahpungnome

michael v said:


> I didn't see the buy link at the bottom of their website lol.
> 
> Thought it was only gonna be $70, but it's $20 shipping and then $20 for the extender so it can fit in the case. So I'm gonna wait a bit until I buy it.


 
 Yeah I was interested until I saw the price lol, it costs over half of the amp itself to use their op amp.


----------



## MunkyOne

Hi,
  
 I have some of these Burson op-amps, in both mono and dual form.  These Burson (and other makes) discreet amps are far too big to fit into the LD1+ case, unless you plan to do some case mods to accommodate them.
  
 In my view, it is not worth the work involved to fit one into an LD1+ in terms of audible benefit.  Out of curiosity, I tried one of the dual op-amps in my LD1+ (case removed) and found that the result was not really any better than the MUSES02 (standard DIP-8 chip) that I have been using in my LD1+ for more than a year now.   The MUSES02, or depending on your taste MUSES01, is a very worthy and far simpler upgrade from the opa2107.  It is a straight swap.
  
 While the Bursons are good; I use them in my DACs, the MUSES02 is as good in the LD1+ and far simpler and cheaper.


----------



## nahpungnome

munkyone said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have some of these Burson op-amps, in both mono and dual form.  These Burson (and other makes) discreet amps are far too big to fit into the LD1+ case, unless you plan to do some case mods to accommodate them.
> 
> ...


 
 Good to know.  My AP2107 cost me $9.99 shipped.  The MUSES02/01 are expensive, they'd have to be $20 at most for me to even want to try them lol.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

I was digging up this thread and found some information about the LT1364... Can someone tell how this opamp compares to the 2107? 
  
 Also, is "linear" opamp the same as single opamp? I look the 1364 on ebay and found some links that say "linear".
  
 http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.XLT1364+.TRS0&_nkw=LT1364+&_sacat=0


----------



## MunkyOne

Hi,
  
 Linear in this context, refers to the manufacturer, Linear Technology.  Hence LT at the begining of the part number.
  
 While I have no personal experience of the LT1364, It is discussed here . 
  
 According to the poster, it is on the neutral side, as opposed to the warmish OPA2107.


----------



## Michael V

Alright so I found out that burson has an ebay store and the shipping was $9 cheaper for their op amp. Also with the money I saved I bought an elna silmic 2 10uf 50v cap and I'm going to do this mod to the burson that pelopidas posted on another thread here http://www.head-fi.org/t/432749/the-opamp-thread/5070#post_12213979


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Perhaps this is the info I need to make sure any opamp is compatible with the I+
  


> The OPA2107 is a 2-channel chip, so you only need one, but make sure you get the DIP/PDIP/8-DIP package version.
> The LT1364 is a 2-channel chip, so you only need one, but make sure you get the DIP/PDIP/8-DIP package version.


 
 http://www.littledot.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=385&start=0


----------



## MunkyOne

williamleonhart said:


> Perhaps this is the info I need to make sure any opamp is compatible with the I+
> 
> http://www.littledot.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=385&start=0


 

 The LD1+ requires either a dual channel o-amp, or two single channel op-amps with a suitable DIP-8 adapter.  It is sometimes possible to buy 2x single channel op-amps already soldered to an adapter, allowing us to try op-amps that are not available as dual channel.
  
 Some good info here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/146018/the-op-amp-rolling-thread


----------



## Rossy007

I have just ordered a Muses02 to see if I can squeeze just a little more bass out of my little dot & Q701. I was wondering if anybody would like to share their top 5 albums that they use as a reference to test any tube rolling or op amp rolling. I have 5 that are my go to cd's that tell me if there is a difference and as I am always looking for new, well produced music I thought it would be interesting to see what others use 
  
 1. Incognito - Greatest Hits, fantastic production and musicianship. Shows me how the Q701's can go deep
 2. Oleta Adams - Moving On, Great recorded voice and instruments, showes me how the little dot can reproduce the smallest details
 3. Sting - Ten Summoner's Tales, Just a great overall recording and separation. Drums sound fantastic
 4. Paul Simon - Negotiations & Love Songs, I find both the little dot & the Q701's show how this combination reproduces vocals, close your eyes...mmmmmm
 5. Extreem - 3 sides to every story, definitely shows that the little dot can handle rock, especially when its recorded as well as this this.
  
 I hope others will chip in as I love being exposed to new material and hearing others opinions on what music makes our little amp sing
  
 Thanks


----------



## SpecChum

Possibly a daft question but how important is a matched pair?
  
 Looking at 6ZH1P-EV tubes on ebay now and the ones that don't mentioned "matched pair" are some £6 cheaper than the ones that do.  They are sold as a pair, but doesn't say matched.
  
 Also, how important is the date?  2 from 1970 are £2 dearer than ones that state 1980; these are both matched pairs however.  I know £2 is pretty much irrelevant, I'm just curious.


----------



## Michael V

specchum said:


> Possibly a daft question but how important is a matched pair?
> 
> Looking at 6ZH1P-EV tubes on ebay now and the ones that don't mentioned "matched pair" are some £6 cheaper than the ones that do.  They are sold as a pair, but doesn't say matched.
> 
> Also, how important is the date?  2 from 1970 are £2 dearer than ones that state 1980; these are both matched pairs however.  I know £2 is pretty much irrelevant, I'm just curious.


 
 I've heard you should get matched to avoid channel imbalance. As far as year, from what I've seen from other tube brands is that each year differs slightly in sound quality. I am currently using vokshod 6zhip-ev tubes from 1985 but I just purchased these 1970s gold-platinum NOS ones from russia and they should be coming in the mail soon. I've generally read the 1970s vokshods are better than 80s because they were more in demand at the time due to the cold war. http://www.ebay.com/itm/131446387039?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## SpecChum

michael v said:


> I've heard you should get matched to avoid channel imbalance. As far as year, from what I've seen from other tube brands is that each year differs slightly in sound quality. I am currently using vokshod 6zhip-ev tubes from 1985 but I just purchased these 1970s gold-platinum NOS ones from russia and they should be coming in the mail soon. I've generally read the 1970s vokshods are better than 80s because they were more in demand at the time due to the cold war. http://www.ebay.com/itm/131446387039?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


 
 Ah righto, I've actually ordered the 1980 versions already lol  Not too far from 1970's so hopefully OK.
  
 I just got my Little Dot I+ today so just reading up on tubes.
  
 Thanks for your help.
  
 Was looking at op amp upgrades too but the difference seems to be very subtle so might just stick to stock for now.


----------



## nahpungnome

michael v said:


> I've heard you should get matched to avoid channel imbalance. As far as year, from what I've seen from other tube brands is that each year differs slightly in sound quality. I am currently using vokshod 6zhip-ev tubes from 1985 but I just purchased these 1970s gold-platinum NOS ones from russia and they should be coming in the mail soon. I've generally read the 1970s vokshods are better than 80s because they were more in demand at the time due to the cold war. http://www.ebay.com/itm/131446387039?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


 
  
  


specchum said:


> Ah righto, I've actually ordered the 1980 versions already lol  Not too far from 1970's so hopefully OK.
> 
> I just got my Little Dot I+ today so just reading up on tubes.
> 
> ...


 
 Yep, try to get matched pairs due to possible channel balance issues.  Also, matched pairs may or may not really be matched.  Look carefully at the specs (they should list them).  Some are just date matched.


----------



## SpecChum

It mentions something about a 5 point rigorous test they do to match them. 

They were also the same seller that listed the cheaper ones as not matched. Seemed legit to be fair.


----------



## nahpungnome

specchum said:


> It mentions something about a 5 point rigorous test they do to match them.
> 
> They were also the same seller that listed the cheaper ones as not matched. Seemed legit to be fair.


 
 You should be good then, I got a matched quad from ukrtubes on ebay.  Takes a while, but they do get to you.


----------



## Michael V

specchum said:


> Ah righto, I've actually ordered the 1980 versions already lol  Not too far from 1970's so hopefully OK.
> 
> I just got my Little Dot I+ today so just reading up on tubes.
> 
> ...


 
 If anything get the OPA2107 op-amp, I heard you could get them free from texas instruments, I don't know how exactly because I bought a used ld 1+ that came with them. But I'm upgrading mine to the burson v5 discrete op-amp because I hear everyone raving about them. Just waiting for them to come in the mail as they shipped from Australia.


----------



## gibosi

And I disagree. I never purchase matched pairs. IMHO, it is waste of money. After all most of the tubes available for the LD amps are brand new. What is important is to make sure that both tubes were manufactured by the same company around the same time and have the exact same construction.


----------



## nahpungnome

gibosi said:


> And I disagree. I never purchase matched pairs. IMHO, it is waste of money. After all most of the tubes available for the LD amps are brand new. What is important is to make sure that both tubes were manufactured by the same company around the same time and have the exact same construction.


 
 Buying a matched pair from someone like Yenaudio might be a waste of money, but buying from someone in the old USSR isn't expensive


----------



## MunkyOne

nahpungnome said:


> Yep, try to get matched pairs due to possible channel balance issues.  Also, matched pairs may or may not really be matched.  Look carefully at the specs (they should list them).  Some are just date matched.


 
  


gibosi said:


> And I disagree. I never purchase matched pairs. IMHO, it is waste of money. After all most of the tubes available for the LD amps are brand new. What is important is to make sure that both tubes were manufactured by the same company around the same time and have the exact same construction.


 

 I agree that, for the most part, matched pairs are a waste of money.  It is unlikely that non-matched pairs will show any noticeable disparity in performance to the human ear, so long as they are produced around the same time and in the same factory process.   Fear, uncertainty and doubt (FUD) are great marketing tools.
  
 My 6ZH1P-EVs were ordered from a Moscow seller.  They were not advertised as matched and they sound great in my LD1+


----------



## Rossy007

With others saying there are fake muses 02 out there, would anyone know if this is legit?
  
 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00B086ZTQ?colid=2ZO3U2NKSKWCV&coliid=I34INO5GJERP9&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

munkyone said:


> I agree that, for the most part, matched pairs are a waste of money.  It is unlikely that non-matched pairs will show any noticeable disparity in performance to the human ear, so long as they are produced around the same time and in the same factory process.   Fear, uncertainty and doubt (FUD) are great marketing tools.
> 
> My 6ZH1P-EVs were ordered from a Moscow seller.  They were not advertised as matched and they sound great in my LD1+


 
 Does the fact that the I+ is a hybrid have anything to do with the need/un-need for matched pair?


----------



## gulakpi

The LD1+ is a hybrid amp simply means it uses tubes for its front-end and semi-conductors for the power stage.  This has nothing related to the necessity for matched pairs.
 Matched pairs are not required in this amp!  
 Enjoy this little big amplifier with the rest of us!


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

BTW is anyone using the Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV made in "07-81"? Mine have somewhat dry mids, fuller bass and non-exceptional trebles... Overally quite boring.


----------



## MunkyOne

rossy007 said:


> With others saying there are fake muses 02 out there, would anyone know if this is legit?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00B086ZTQ?colid=2ZO3U2NKSKWCV&coliid=I34INO5GJERP9&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl


 

 There may well be fake op-amps out there; especially the more expensive ones.   Best to purchase from specialist electronic suppliers to avoid the risk.   I purchased mine from Mouser, but they are available from Farnell, Digikey etc. also.  Companies like these, source components direct from the manufacturer or main distributor.
  
 Amazon is no safer than ebay for electronic components.


----------



## MunkyOne

williamleonhart said:


> Does the fact that the I+ is a hybrid have anything to do with the need/un-need for matched pair?


 

 No.  It does not matter the architecture of the circuit.  In all tube amps, the choice of matched vs unmatched is always a matter of preference.  Some will swear they hear a difference, wile some will swear otherwise.   Noticeable differences are more likely if the tubes were manufactured in a different company, location or year, as the manufacturing processes are always evolving.
  
 It is worth noting, that in the LD1+, it makes even less of a difference than a pure tube amp. The tubes are providing some current gain into the inverting input of the op-amp, and with it some nice tubey flavour.
  
 Try some of the less expensive ones, matched and unmatched, and see if you can tell.  As with everything hi-fi, it is always subjective.


----------



## Rossy007

Just popped in a muse02 and was quite surprised at the difference. Vocals are a bit hard but I am hoping that will change (don't know if op-amps need burning in). definitely more detail and the bass is superb, makes my Q701's sound warm and deep. I feel like the soundstage has narrowed a bit but its early days yet.
  
 Thanks everyone who have recommended this amp.


----------



## iamxLn

what did you come from?


----------



## Rossy007

A2107, and the muse02 seems louder. I now have the volume at about 3 whereas before it was 4-5. don't know if that's making a difference?


----------



## MunkyOne

rossy007 said:


> Just popped in a muse02 and was quite surprised at the difference. Vocals are a bit hard but I am hoping that will change (don't know if op-amps need burning in). definitely more detail and the bass is superb, makes my Q701's sound warm and deep. I feel like the soundstage has narrowed a bit but its early days yet.
> 
> Thanks everyone who have recommended this amp.


 

 Unlike tubes and other discrete components, there's so little physical material in op-amps that burn-in is not really a factor.   What tubes are you currently listening with?  Currently, I am listening with the MUSES02 op-amp and 6ZH1P-EV tubes.  No hardness of vocals, Wonderfully open and clear, with deep yet very well controlled bass.   With Grado 325e and AKG K550.   Having said that, I have made some cicuit mods to the amp, which have improved it's sound.


----------



## Michael V

munkyone said:


> Unlike tubes and other discrete components, there's so little physical material in op-amps that burn-in is not really a factor.   What tubes are you currently listening with?  Currently, I am listening with the MUSES02 op-amp and 6ZH1P-EV tubes.  No hardness of vocals, Wonderfully open and clear, with deep yet very well controlled bass.   With Grado 325e and AKG K550.   Having said that, I have made some cicuit mods to the amp, which have improved it's sound.


 
 What mods have you done?


----------



## MunkyOne

michael v said:


> What mods have you done?


 

 Vbe mod: connected a 0.1uF cap between the bases of each output transistor pair, to bypass the Vbe multipliers.  This removed the transient at around 10KHz, so treble a bit smoother, especially at higher volumes.
  
 Upgraded all main caps to higher quality versions, but kept the values the same.  This can be a pain due to limited space in the chassis. 
  
 Volume pot upgraded to higher quality ALPS version.  Same 100K ohms.
  
 Generally just trying to make the most of the existing circuit design, which apart from a couple of things is very good.   For some reason they chose to connect the tubes output to the inverting input of the op-amp, which results in phase inversion.  This is something I may experiment with at a later date, but for now, I am enjoying the LD1+ as it is.


----------



## MunkyOne

Michael V:
  
 How did you get the Burson op-amp into the LD case?    I have used some of these in my home made DACs and they are quite tall.  Sound good though.
  
 How is the sound with the Burson op-amp and the 6ZH1P-EV tubes?


----------



## Michael V

munkyone said:


> Michael V:
> 
> How did you get the Burson op-amp into the LD case?    I have used some of these in my home made DACs and they are quite tall.  Sound good though.
> 
> How is the sound with the Burson op-amp and the 6ZH1P-EV tubes?


 
 I'm going to order an extender for it, I just have the amp on it's side right now with the bottom open.
  
 Can't say I hear a difference at all. I still can't discern any audible differences between my iphone 6s+ and my computer with an asus xonar stx soundcard and the ld1+


----------



## peter123

A while ago I decided to dedicate and tune my LD I+ for the Fidelio X2's and after trying a lot of different configurations I've now settled on Siemens 6AK5W tubes paired with MUSES8820 op amp. Sounds seriously good and the best I've ever heard the X2's to my ears.
  
 I'd really like to try the Burson SS V5 op amp in my LD but I'm afraid it's going to sound too good and since it doesn't fit with the lid on it would be terrible to know that it can sound even better than it does now but not being able to take advatage of it


----------



## Michael V

peter123 said:


> A while ago I decided to dedicate and tune my LD I+ for the Fidelio X2's and after trying a lot of different configurations I've now settled on Siemens 6AK5W tubes paired with MUSES8820 op amp. Sounds seriously good and the best I've ever heard the X2's to my ears.
> 
> I'd really like to try the Burson SS V5 op amp in my LD but I'm afraid it's going to sound too good and since it doesn't fit with the lid on it would be terrible to know that it can sound even better than it does now but not being able to take advatage of it


 
 Burson sells an extender for it so you can put it anywhere you want and it will fit in the 1+ that way


----------



## nahpungnome

munkyone said:


> Vbe mod: connected a 0.1uF cap between the bases of each output transistor pair, to bypass the Vbe multipliers.  This removed the transient at around 10KHz, so treble a bit smoother, especially at higher volumes.
> 
> Upgraded all main caps to higher quality versions, but kept the values the same.  This can be a pain due to limited space in the chassis.
> 
> ...


 
 Sounds like fun, I wish I knew how to do all that   I read on one of the reviews here that changing the potentiometer made a huge difference in sound and they also used an ALPS version.  You'd have to de-solder and solder the ALPS one on yes?


----------



## peter123

michael v said:


> Burson sells an extender for it so you can put it anywhere you want and it will fit in the 1+ that way




Aha, I wasn't aware of that. Thanks a lot for this information!


----------



## Rossy007

They are Tung-sol 6AH6, Its been a constant problem for me, I seem to have a sensitivity to harsh top ends. One thing I have noticed since I put the muse02 in is every now and then, I hear a click/pop, not overly loud and not all the time...strange. I may give your tubes a try, i'll look on ebay today.


----------



## Rossy007

I was wondering if there was a frequency I could cut in foobar to take away the hard highs. I don't use the eq but was wondering if this would help before I get some new tube?


----------



## rovopio

^ Just use EQ?


----------



## MunkyOne

nahpungnome said:


> Sounds like fun, I wish I knew how to do all that   I read on one of the reviews here that changing the potentiometer made a huge difference in sound and they also used an ALPS version.  You'd have to de-solder and solder the ALPS one on yes?


 

 Yes, the new pot will need soldering to the board, if the contact spacing is correct, or wired if it is not.  Actually, the standard pot on the LD1+ is an ALPS model, but an older, less advanced design.  Changing the pot did make a noticeable difference, but I would not say a huge difference.  The biggest difference I heard was after the Vbe mod.  But collectively, the mods have made quite a difference (to my ears), more refined.  In terms of dynamics and soundstage etc, the op-amp and tubes make a bigger difference.
  
 If you have, or can acquire basic soldering skills, the mods I have made are quite easy to do.  The biggest problem is the lack of space in the LD1+ chassis, which means you have to be very careful not to short anything.  It is fun, and I would encourage anyone who is interested to try modding.  The manual skills are easily acquired, although the technical knowledge takes rather longer to build.  There are some very good books and online electronics pages available, should you want to get a taste of it.  Some of the LD1+ mods are very well described in various forums.


----------



## MunkyOne

rossy007 said:


> They are Tung-sol 6AH6, Its been a constant problem for me, I seem to have a sensitivity to harsh top ends. One thing I have noticed since I put the muse02 in is every now and then, I hear a click/pop, not overly loud and not all the time...strange. I may give your tubes a try, i'll look on ebay today.


 

 If you like a more mellow top-end, have you tried some of the Mullard tubes?   
  
 I have not noticed any clicks / pops since installing the MUSES02 in my LD1+  Maybe what you are hearing is from the source?  Those MUSES are very revealing.


----------



## Rossy007

munkyone said:


> If you like a more mellow top-end, have you tried some of the Mullard tubes?
> 
> I have not noticed any clicks / pops since installing the MUSES02 in my LD1+  Maybe what you are hearing is from the source?  Those MUSES are very revealing.


 
 Thanks, it is very revealing. What mullards would you recommend?


----------



## Rossy007

Looks like I was able to stop the clicking, I had the latency on the cambridge audio asio set too low..fantastic now.


----------



## Michael V

null-


----------



## MunkyOne

rossy007 said:


> Thanks, it is very revealing. What mullards would you recommend?


 
 I found the Mullard M8161  (CV4015 version) to be very smooth in the high registers.  I can't compare them to your Tung-sol 6AH6, as I have yet to try them.   The M8161 are readily and inexpensively available as NOS.


----------



## MunkyOne

michael v said:


> When I first got the LD1+ I couldn't tell a difference in sound quality whether i had my headphones hooked up to my iphone, into my asus xonar stx, or into the ld1+. They all sound the same. I then upgraded the tubes and then got the burson v5 op amp two days ago and I still don't hear a difference. This is the same reason I sold my schiit bifrost uber and lyr 2 last year when I bought them. I figured I'd give it a try again this year but there is literally not one difference no matter what I connect my headphones to or what mods I do to the ld1+.


 

 I think that this may be as much to do with the human factor in the audio world.  I have experienced this personally with some tubes that others say sound different, yet I cannot hear the same difference.   It is all so subjective; we all hear things so differently.  I think that sometimes when we make changes to our equipment, we have some expectations of how much audible difference we should hear, which are not always based on sufficient understanding of the change or mod we are making.  Sometimes the changes are extremely subtle.  I would say that most of my LD1+ mods were subtle, yet collectively they are very noticeable when compared to my un-modded LD1+ that I use as a reference.
  
 I built a new DAC recently and changed the (very good) op-amps for Burson descrete amps, if there is a difference, it is very subtle, to my ears.  Yet some of the other changes I made were like night and day.
  
 I suppose, in the end it is all about finding a sound yuo like and sticking with it, unless, like me, you are addicted to trying to make something as good as it can be (subjectively, of course).


----------



## Michael V

munkyone said:


> I think that this may be as much to do with the human factor in the audio world.  I have experienced this personally with some tubes that others say sound different, yet I cannot hear the same difference.   It is all so subjective; we all hear things so differently.  I think that sometimes when we make changes to our equipment, we have some expectations of how much audible difference we should hear, which are not always based on sufficient understanding of the change or mod we are making.  Sometimes the changes are extremely subtle.  I would say that most of my LD1+ mods were subtle, yet collectively they are very noticeable when compared to my un-modded LD1+ that I use as a reference.
> 
> I built a new DAC recently and changed the (very good) op-amps for Burson descrete amps, if there is a difference, it is very subtle, to my ears.  Yet some of the other changes I made were like night and day.
> 
> I suppose, in the end it is all about finding a sound yuo like and sticking with it, unless, like me, you are addicted to trying to make something as good as it can be (subjectively, of course).


 
 Could it also be because I'm using 32ohm Grado RS2e's and that they don't require an amp? Also I still haven't tried just a normal tube amp. I've only ever had solid state or hybrids.
  
 Does anyone here have experience with the little dot mk2? Thinking I should get that and try it and maybe use it as a pre amp to the 1+(Not sure if that will better the sound or not).


----------



## gulakpi

The LD Mk2 sounds good (the Mk3 is an even better value), but both of them are not suitable for low impedance phones like the RS2e.


----------



## gibosi

IMO, the MK2 should be considered equal to the LD1+. The primary difference is the LD1+ was designed to run low-Z cans, whereas the MK2 was designed to run high-Z cans.


----------



## Michael V

gulakpi said:


> The LD Mk2 sounds good (the Mk3 is an even better value), but both of them are not suitable for low impedance phones like the RS2e.


 
  


gibosi said:


> IMO, the MK2 should be considered equal to the LD1+. The primary difference is the LD1+ was designed to run low-Z cans, whereas the MK2 was designed to run high-Z cans.


 
 Both the lyr 2 and ld1+ are hybrids and sound no different than solid state amps to me. I just need to hear what an actual tube amp sounds like to compare(if it even sounds any different). Other than headphones sounding different, this whole dac and amp game is a joke to me.


----------



## nahpungnome

michael v said:


> Both the lyr 2 and ld1+ are hybrids and sound no different than solid state amps to me. I just need to hear what an actual tube amp sounds like to compare(if it even sounds any different). Other than headphones sounding different, this whole dac and amp game is a joke to me.


 
 I questioned buying a DAC myself since 99% of the music I listen to is through Amazon Music.  On the high quality setting, it's supposed to stream at 256kbps.  Through my headphone jack on my laptop, I could hear hiss/cracks that I didn't really care about, but when I decided to buy a cheapy DAC/Amp (Micca Origen), all those cleared up and things just sounded clearer.  Now, going from my cheapy to another high end DAC or amp, I don't know that it'd be worth it for me, but going from headphone jack to external DAC definitely was.
  
 I also like you, when changing OPAmps and tubes on my LD, didn't notice a big difference.  Mostly more controlled bass on my X2, but on my 400i, I noticed more bass and fuller sound overall since they aren't as efficient as the X2.  Was the difference mind blowing?   Not at all.  Like you said, changing cans makes the most difference.


----------



## forestitalia

This amplifier is too good and I bought it again after one year. First tubes Z77, very good, excellent with Grados
 I miss the gain switch.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

nahpungnome said:


> I questioned buying a DAC myself since 99% of the music I listen to is through Amazon Music.  On the high quality setting, it's supposed to stream at 256kbps.  Through my headphone jack on my laptop, I could hear hiss/cracks that I didn't really care about, but when I decided to buy a cheapy DAC/Amp (Micca Origen), all those cleared up and things just sounded clearer.  Now, going from my cheapy to another high end DAC or amp, I don't know that it'd be worth it for me, but going from headphone jack to external DAC definitely was.
> 
> I also like you, when changing OPAmps and tubes on my LD, didn't notice a big difference.  Mostly more controlled bass on my X2, but on my 400i, I noticed more bass and fuller sound overall since they aren't as efficient as the X2.  Was the difference mind blowing?   Not at all.  Like you said, changing cans makes the most difference.


 
  


michael v said:


> Both the lyr 2 and ld1+ are hybrids and sound no different than solid state amps to me. I just need to hear what an actual tube amp sounds like to compare(if it even sounds any different). Other than headphones sounding different, this whole dac and amp game is a joke to me.


 
 Actually IME the effects of tubes and OPAMP depends a lot on the sound signature of the DAC and the headphones. I found the effects of tube-rolling most significant when combining the I+ with the ODAC, which is very neutral. Also, my Grado SR325is shows the tube coloration much more than my HD540 (I found the flagship HD5xx and HD6xx to be quite amp-insensitive, actually). If you compare the K701 on the I+ and on the O2, you'll really see the difference, and I for one like the tube sound better. Also, if the synergy with the opamp is not good, it certainly does impact the effects of tubes too. I can't really tell which tubes from which if the opamp is too congested or lacks too many details.
  
  
 I do, however, agree with you that the difference is not that "mind blowing" and changing headphones certainly has the most effects. But switching tubes is much cheaper (the 6hm5 and the GE JAN both cost lest than a pizza for a pair) than switching headphones, and it does give you the chance to optimize your sound for a particular experience. For example, I never used my Siemens tubes for Rock n' Metal as they are very slow. On the other hand, the GE JAN tubes do sharpen up the electric guitar, tighten up the bass and they're my fav for Metal. The Siemens are only for oldies slow pop, e.g the Righteous Brother or Frank Sinatra. Once again, it does not turn the SR325is into the RS1i or the 225i, but it feels really great having 2 versions of the SR325is thanks to tubes.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

Interesting my DAC D1 and UD-H01 sound different  from each other same goes for all my AMPS(see my profile for my equipment list)The best Head amp of them all is the Vintage PIONEER SX-3700.


----------



## peter123

i luvmusic 2 said:


> Interesting my DAC D1 and UD-H01 sound different  from each other *same goes for all my AMPS*(see my profile for my equipment list)The best Head amp of them all is the Vintage PIONEER SX-3700.




Fwiw that's my experience as well.


----------



## iamxLn

anyone compared ld1+ to the new vali 2 yet?


----------



## Samlamanna

So I've finally got the little dot 1+ into a good state. Upon installing the muses02 I almost shed a tear. Just started laughing. This thing is now a lush soundscape in a box. I cannot even believe what it did for soundstage and sound in general. Sounds like a tube amp at last. Everything is forward. Bass is thick and textured. Seems to add an almost harmonic effect to cymbals and such. This is not the op amp for neutral/technical listening but for pure music bliss. I'm running the little dot with Ge jan5654w at the moment and He-400i. Have some mullard 8083 on the way. Can't wait to get the muses in my gustard h10. Because it needs it to match up to the little dots musicality at this point.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Has anyone tried the muses 8920? I heard it's very near to the muses02 in term of quality.


----------



## peter123

williamleonhart said:


> Has anyone tried the muses 8920? I heard it's very near to the muses02 in term of quality.




Yes, I've got both the 8920 and 8820. Ended up preferring the 8820 but I was tuning my LD to sound as good as possible with the Fidelio X2's only. Combination of source, tubes, headphones and preference will all have influence. They're both great op amps in my opinion.


----------



## lior777

hello
  
 i need to get my new he400i soon.
  
 i want to buy the little dot 1 and buy new lamps that will give more Power to Musical Instruments, Mainly hear tunes with a lot of tools.
  
what you suggest me?


----------



## nahpungnome

liorcohen said:


> hello
> 
> i need to get my new he400i soon.
> 
> ...


 
 I'd recommend listening to the amp with the stock configuration then determine if you feel you need to change the tubes/opamp.


----------



## lior777

thanks i need also dac...what you suggest me?


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

liorcohen said:


> thanks i need also dac...what you suggest me?


 
 Buy the stock configuration of the I+ with WE408A tubes. Perhaps it's already good enough for you.
 On the matter of DAC, I think the ODAC or the Modi will serve you well. I'm more on the side of ODAC.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

peter123 said:


> Yes, I've got both the 8920 and 8820. Ended up preferring the 8820 but I was tuning my LD to sound as good as possible with the Fidelio X2's only. Combination of source, tubes, headphones and preference will all have influence. They're both great op amps in my opinion.


 
 Took 3 weeks and I've got the 8920 and the 8820 now. I plugged in the 8920 yesterday and it drastically change the sound on my I+. I feel like the trebles is sharper but the bass not as soupy as on the OPA2107. Definitely opened up the sound and immediately recognizable. I used to think my 6hm5 was a "soft" tube, but with the 8920 it's not as intimate as before. 
  
 Is your 8820 more intimate or more aggressive than the 8920?


----------



## peter123

williamleonhart said:


> Took 3 weeks and I've got the 8920 and the 8820 now. I plugged in the 8920 yesterday and it drastically change the sound on my I+. I feel like the trebles is sharper but the bass not as soupy as on the OPA2107. Definitely opened up the sound and immediately recognizable. I used to think my 6hm5 was a "soft" tube, but with the 8920 it's not as intimate as before.
> 
> Is your 8820 more intimate or more aggressive than the 8920?




Hmm, good question really can't remember tbh. As I mentioned I tuned my LD I+ to sound its best combined with the Fidelio X2 and they're quite full sounding so I'd imagine the 8820 being a bit cleaner and more relaxed. 

Due to other obligations I'm afraid it'll be a couple of weeks before I'll be able to do a new a/b with the two. 

I'm sorry I couldn't be of more help now.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

peter123 said:


> Hmm, good question really can't remember tbh. As I mentioned I tuned my LD I+ to sound its best combined with the Fidelio X2 and they're quite full sounding so I'd imagine the 8820 being a bit cleaner and more relaxed.
> 
> Due to other obligations I'm afraid it'll be a couple of weeks before I'll be able to do a new a/b with the two.
> 
> I'm sorry I couldn't be of more help now.


 
 Thanks for the answer anw. I just plugged the 8820 and honestly I can't see the difference between them two. Perhaps it's gonna take a lot of time to see the difference since plugging these in and out take quite sometime.


----------



## AzraelDarkangel

I just ordered a Little Dot 1+ with upgrade valvo 6CQ6 tubes and also ordered a Sparko Labs dual op amp.


----------



## peter123

williamleonhart said:


> Thanks for the answer anw. I just plugged the 8820 and honestly I can't see the difference between them two. Perhaps it's gonna take a lot of time to see the difference since plugging these in and out take quite sometime.


 
 Yeah I agree on that. I typically use one op amp (or tubes for that matter) for a couple of days so that I get use to the way it sounds and then change. For me it's much more easy to spot the differences this way but YMMV......


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

azraeldarkangel said:


> I just ordered a Little Dot 1+ with upgrade valvo 6CQ6 tubes and also ordered a Sparko Labs dual op amp.


 
 Personally I'd buy the 6JI version since all stock tubes are not that great. You'd have to replace them to reach the I+'s full potential.


----------



## AzraelDarkangel

williamleonhart said:


> Personally I'd buy the 6JI version since all stock tubes are not that great. You'd have to replace them to reach the I+'s full potential.


 

 I've heard the valvo 6CQ6 (Mullard) are actually pretty good, just a bit microphonic and not quite as good as the mil-spec nos Mullard CV4014 which are considered one of the best tubes available for the Little Dot along with the ever popular Voskhod rockets.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

azraeldarkangel said:


> I've heard the valvo 6CQ6 (Mullard) are actually pretty good, just a bit microphonic and not quite as good as the mil-spec nos Mullard CV4014 which are considered one of the best tubes available for the Little Dot along with the ever popular Voskhod rockets.


 
 I don't have the CV4014 but currently rocking the CV4010 and they blow the 6CQ6 out of the water. Unfortunately my 6CQ6s (which came with the amp) died a long time ago after I moved house (they just stopped working) so I can't do an A-B comparison between them and any other tubes I own, but I do remember that those Valvo sounded nothing special, and the bass was a bit bloated. Could have been burn-in, but honestly I'd rather spend my money on the 6hm5 rather than spend extra for the 6CQ6 options.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

One question I have is my GE JAN has started to give scratching noises similar to when you turn the volume switch on cheap amps. Does this mean they're going to die?


----------



## gibosi

williamleonhart said:


> One question I have is my GE JAN has started to give scratching noises similar to when you turn the volume switch on cheap amps. Does this mean they're going to die?


 
  
 It is very hard to say.... But in my experience, that sound is typical of a poor cathode connection. So I would recommend that you mechanically clean the pins and see if it helps.


----------



## AzraelDarkangel

williamleonhart said:


> I don't have the CV4014 but currently rocking the CV4010 and they blow the 6CQ6 out of the water. Unfortunately my 6CQ6s (which came with the amp) died a long time ago after I moved house (they just stopped working) so I can't do an A-B comparison between them and any other tubes I own, but I do remember that those Valvo sounded nothing special, and the bass was a bit bloated. Could have been burn-in, but honestly I'd rather spend my money on the 6hm5 rather than spend extra for the 6CQ6 options.


 

 I actually just today ordered a pair of CV4014 to have something to compare to the stock tubes. Eventually I'll start a collection of tubes to see what best matches with the Sparko op amps that are coming too.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

azraeldarkangel said:


> I actually just today ordered a pair of CV4014 to have something to compare to the stock tubes. Eventually I'll start a collection of tubes to see what best matches with the Sparko op amps that are coming too.


 
 Oh and do tell how much you like the Sparko. I'm very happy with the MUSES I'm having, but once you're in the rolling game... Well.


gibosi said:


> It is very hard to say.... But in my experience, that sound is typical of a poor cathode connection. So I would recommend that you mechanically clean the pins and see if it helps.


 
 Thanks for the advice. I'll try today. Can I use medical alcohol to clean the pins?


----------



## gibosi

williamleonhart said:


> Oh and do tell how much you like the Sparko. I'm very happy with the MUSES I'm having, but once you're in the rolling game... Well.
> Thanks for the advice. I'll try today. Can I use medical alcohol to clean the pins?


 
  
 I recommend that you clean them mechanically first. You might try sand paper or scraping the pins with a dull knife. And then alcohol.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Thanks @gibosi. I did clean it with ear-cleaning buds and the noise is gone. Perhaps the tubes will continue to serve me longer.


----------



## soundsculptor

Hi guys, I've never tube-rolled before as the Little Dot i+ is my first tube amp.
 My question is, would these tubes work with my amp, sound good, and would I have to change the settings?
 My amp came with 6J1 tubes originally.


----------



## AzraelDarkangel

> Oh and do tell how much you like the Sparko. I'm very happy with the MUSES I'm having, but once you're in the rolling game... Well.


 
 The Muses are probably the most popular and I hear lots of great things, but I love trying out really exotic products and discrete op amps like Burson, Sparko, DEXA, etc. are supposedly the best available, a few people shoehorned Burson's but I didn't see posts about anyone trying Sparko or others like that and speaking of op amps, My Sparko Labs op amp just got handed to me, though my amp won't get here for another week or two.


----------



## soundsculptor

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated, especially considering the auction ends in less than a day.
 Thanks in advance


----------



## peter123

soundsculptor said:


> Any and all help would be greatly appreciated, especially considering the auction ends in less than a day.
> Thanks in advance




Yes, those tubes are compatible with the LD I+ if that's what you're asking.


----------



## soundsculptor

peter123 said:


> Yes, those tubes are compatible with the LD I+ if that's what you're asking.


 

 Awesome, thanks. That is 40% of my question.
 If you know, would those tubes require me to change any settings on the amp to use them, and do you know if they're good tubes.
 Sorry if these are redundant questions, I'm super new to tube rolling.
 Thanks in advance!


----------



## peter123

soundsculptor said:


> Awesome, thanks. That is 40% of my question.
> If you know, would those tubes require me to change any settings on the amp to use them, and do you know if they're good tubes.
> Sorry if these are redundant questions, I'm super new to tube rolling.
> Thanks in advance!




LOL, let's see if we can raise that percentage a bit more  

I honestly don't remember the settings for each kind of tubes but it's all in the manual so even if you don't have it we should be able to help you. If anything needs to be changed it's just to remove or add one of the plastic jumpers inside, very easy. 

They're quite highly regarded but personally I find the top warm and syrup like, so probably only you can answer this question. 

Hope this help.


----------



## soundsculptor

Thank you so much for all your help!


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

azraeldarkangel said:


> The Muses are probably the most popular and I hear lots of great things, but I love trying out really exotic products and discrete op amps like Burson, Sparko, DEXA, etc. are supposedly the best available, a few people shoehorned Burson's but I didn't see posts about anyone trying Sparko or others like that and speaking of op amps, My Sparko Labs op amp just got handed to me, though my amp won't get here for another week or two.


 
 Be sure to give us your impression about the Sparko! I'm curious. 


soundsculptor said:


> Any and all help would be greatly appreciated, especially considering the auction ends in less than a day.
> Thanks in advance


 
 This link would be helpful to you:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide
  
 The 6J1 belongs to the EF95 tube family. In the future, if you see any tube that has marking belongs to one of those mentioned (6ak5, 5654, 6ZH1P-EV), you can rest assured that it will be compatible with your I+. Like peter said, the tube in the ebay link you posted are compatible.
  
 If you read the I+'s manual, you'd also see that it's compatible with EF92 and WE408A tubes as well. However, at the current state of your amp, you'd have to remove/add some jumper on the amp's board for it to accommodate EF92 and WE408A. In my case I've decided to stick with the EF95 settings, since it's already got a lot of tubes that're easy to buy.


----------



## soundsculptor

Thanks! I discovered the tube rolling guide and many other resources shortly after posting and found that the tubes I got were at a fairly reasonable price and were very highly rated, and so I pulled the trigger and got them (I think it's a set of 4) for the equlivalent of  $11USD.
  
 Anyhow, thanks again to everyone who helped, hopefully these will sound a lot better than the tubes I currently have.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Congrats on your purchase. My Mullards (CV4010) gave the most bass out of all the tubes I own.
  
  
 Btw, does anyone around here feel like opamp upgrade will make your I+ less tube-like? I'm under the impression that after I switch to the MUSE 8820 the difference when changing tubes doesn't feel as much as before.


----------



## soundsculptor

Thanks!
 I now have another question if any of you wonderful people care to help.
 So the person I purchased from was very courteous and quick and he sent me a bit of information about the tubes but I don't know what it means.
  
 He told me the following:
 ​ 9.: 10,9 mA
 28.: 10,8 mA

 Where 7,5 mA = 100% (cond.: Uh=6,3V; Ug1=-2,00V; Ug2=Up=125V).
 0,1 mA = less than 1% balance.​ Tubes are perfect matched and strong.​  
 Can anyone tell me what these numbers mean?
  
 Thanks in advance!


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

soundsculptor said:


> Thanks!
> I now have another question if any of you wonderful people care to help.
> So the person I purchased from was very courteous and quick and he sent me a bit of information about the tubes but I don't know what it means.
> 
> ...


 
 He was trying to tell you that the tubes are matched? Which practically means nothing on the I+, anyway. Just make sure you set the right gain for your tube and enjoy the music.


----------



## soundsculptor

Awesome!
 Thanks again for all your help!


----------



## Darkbullet

I have a quick question for everyone here, I was looking at some mullard tubes and this seller has them for $10 each http://www.ebay.com/itm/5654-6AK5-6096-CV4010-TUBE-/160510520465?.  They don't have mullard branding on them, anyone have experience with them?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

darkbullet said:


> I have a quick question for everyone here, I was looking at some mullard tubes and this seller has them for $10 each http://www.ebay.com/itm/5654-6AK5-6096-CV4010-TUBE-/160510520465?.  They don't have mullard branding on them, anyone have experience with them?
> 
> Thanks.


 
 I don't have any experience with this seller, but it's not the first time I've seen tubes without maker branding. Even the "CV4010" branding on the tubes will fade after some time.
  
 Honestly I can only hope that the tube/opamp seller that I'm buying from is honest, and the seller rating is the only way to know that.


----------



## futuretrash

Hi there, thanks for all your amazing info in this thread! I used it to help create my headphone listening system for music production, mixing and mastering, and listening. 
  
 I went with (from my Macbook Pro): Schiit Modi 2 --> Little Dot I+ --> AKGK712
  
 I spend a lot of hours making house music on my studio system and wanted to hear the lower ranges better at nighttime so I don't have to use my monitors and blast my kids awake, but also for a more detailed mixing and mastering process. Headphones allow detail you'll miss on monitors and so bouncing between monitors and headphones is really important. Then to earbuds and the car stereo to be sure everything's balanced for the "other people" 
  
 My big question is obviously TUBES! I read the stock tubes are not optimal especially int he low end and these AKGs are beasts in the lower end. When I bought the I+ I ordered a pair of these: General Electric (GE) 5654 / 5654W / 6AK5 / 6AK5W Electron Vacuum Tube I read they were a fairly priced swap that's kind of a no brainer, but I want to go deeper!
  
 Can anyone recommend your favorite bass oriented tubes? I'm listening for both low mid-bass as well as sub bass, and need to hear the two distinctly. My Equator monitors are amazing for this, but they're seriously flat and accurate and for late night music writing, I want warm drippy syrupy lushness. Bang for your buck would be hugely appreciated ... if there's a set for $14 that's 80% of the best set for $60 I;d love to know about those.
  
 I know you guys know your stuff so hit me with the real talk.
  
 Secondarily, if you have an OPAMP swap to recommend as well, I'd love to hear about that as well.
  
 Lastly (sorry) is there a "family" of tubes I should focus on?
  
 Music I produce: Deep House
 Music I listen to: EDM, Jazz, Funk, Hip Hop, Soul, R&B, Ambient, Psychedelic Rock, Disco, Classical
  
 Thank you in advance!


----------



## futuretrash

Just put in the GE 5654's they make a huge difference. Giant improvement from stock. What's going to be a step up from these guys?


----------



## Oskari

darkbullet said:


> I have a quick question for everyone here, I was looking at some mullard tubes and this seller has them for $10 each http://www.ebay.com/itm/5654-6AK5-6096-CV4010-TUBE-/160510520465?.  They don't have mullard branding on them, anyone have experience with them?




I don't think those are Mullards at all.




oskari said:


> Ah, the "SDA" should mean AWV in Australia.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

futuretrash said:


> Hi there, thanks for all your amazing info in this thread! I used it to help create my headphone listening system for music production, mixing and mastering, and listening.
> 
> I went with (from my Macbook Pro): Schiit Modi 2 --> Little Dot I+ --> AKGK712
> 
> ...


 
 The GE 5654, I believe, is better for electric guitar-centric music.
  
 If you want better bass, go for the OPA2107 and the Mullards CV4010. In terms of bass that's the best combo I've ever tried.


----------



## futuretrash

Thanks, so something liek this? http://www.ebay.com/itm/M8100-CV4010-5654-MULLARD-MATCHED-PAIR-NOS-VALVE-TUBE-SQUARE-GETTER-/262251888979?hash=item3d0f6e4153:gRAAAOSwuYVWoKly
  
 Where does one go about procuring the OPA2107? Is installation difficult?
  
 Thanks for the guidance.


----------



## iamxLn

I like the lm4562 across the board more than the 2107, for me it has a lot more clarity still with good bass. They're like a dollar each though so just buy both.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

futuretrash said:


> Thanks, so something liek this? http://www.ebay.com/itm/M8100-CV4010-5654-MULLARD-MATCHED-PAIR-NOS-VALVE-TUBE-SQUARE-GETTER-/262251888979?hash=item3d0f6e4153:gRAAAOSwuYVWoKly
> 
> Where does one go about procuring the OPA2107? Is installation difficult?
> 
> Thanks for the guidance.


 
 It seems the tube is valid.
  
 Now on the opamp, yes it is easy, especially if you have long nails (just a bit longer that your teacher'd like).
  
 Look at the picture below, it's not quite the same board as mine but very similar. You just use your nail (or something similar), start with either the left side or the right side, left > right > left > right... until it comes out. Because of the yellow thingy (sorry I don't know what it is), it will be quite difficult trying to grab the opamp from both sides and pluck it out.
  
 When installing, on the empty opamp slot, you'd see a small circle shape (which may or may not be a complete circle, doesn't matter). Notice that any opamp also has that circle, as you can see in the picture. Make sure that when you install the new one, the circle on the slot and the circle on the opamp are BOTH on the same half of the rectangle. Which means if the slot has the circle shape on the left then the opamp should have its circle on the left side when you install, too.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

iamxln said:


> I like the lm4562 across the board more than the 2107, for me it has a lot more clarity still with good bass. They're like a dollar each though so just buy both.


 
 I haven't tried the lm4562 but I can say the MUSES 8820 and 8920 are both huge steps up from the 2107 from clarity, but the bass is not as pronounced.


----------



## futuretrash

Thanks for your thougthful feedback!
  
 Can anyone recommend a place to buy these OPAMPS?
 Looking via google they all look like wholesalers selling bulk.
  
 Please advise?


----------



## iamxLn

eBay, the ones that have the most sold are reliable. Get a chip puller too. It's only a dollar and saves you a headache.


----------



## futuretrash

I went with a US seller here in NYS, China ones look shady, hard to believe that it's authentic for $1. There's no branding and tons of warnings all over the web. Seemed to make sense to get the BB from someone with more credibility, especially since it looks like BB and TI merged so these are essentially not made anymore. http://www.ebay.com/itm/OPA2107-Difet-OpAmp-No-China-material-OPA2107AP-/172120465157?
  
 Now to find some nice bass heavy tubes to go with this


----------



## drofeel71

Just procured the Burson V5-OPA-D to install in my Little dot +1. Just waiting for the extender to arrive so I can install it as it won't fit in the case when put directly into the socket. Got great hopes for this opamp, I will report back soon.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

futuretrash said:


> I went with a US seller here in NYS, China ones look shady, hard to believe that it's authentic for $1. There's no branding and tons of warnings all over the web. Seemed to make sense to get the BB from someone with more credibility, especially since it looks like BB and TI merged so these are essentially not made anymore. http://www.ebay.com/itm/OPA2107-Difet-OpAmp-No-China-material-OPA2107AP-/172120465157?
> 
> Now to find some nice bass heavy tubes to go with this


 
 Now that this has come to mind, my 2107 could definitely be fake


----------



## futuretrash

What did that set you back and do you have any pics on what it will look like? That thing's a tower! Also, curious, so far what have you treid that's been your favorite OPamp for tight big bass?


----------



## AzraelDarkangel

I have the Sparko op amp (supposedly more clarity but a bit less bass than the Burson v5) but I'm trying to get used to the sound at stock before I install them. Also waiting for my Mullard CV4014 tubes first.


----------



## futuretrash

I'm bugging out with the Modi 2 > I+ > K712s. I thought my Equator monitors were accurate, I'm hearing so many things in songs I didn't even know were there. Thos Orb Album on vinyl through this rig is unreal. It's like watching a movie through your ears. https://www.discogs.com/Orb-Pomme-Fritz/master/7272
  
 So far the GE 5654's I got sounds pretty great. I'd love a low end that's a bit tighter and wider though. Mainly just because the music I listen to tends to be driven by the low ends. And for mastering purposes I need to hear my subs, I layer sub frequencies under my basslines and I do a lot of work on music at night when the fam is in la la sleepy land.


----------



## futuretrash

I did some price comparisons and my gut instincts tell me that anything less than about $12 and it's likely fake. That seems to be the going rate for these via US distributers. That's just my gut though and it's entirely anecdotal.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

futuretrash said:


> What did that set you back and do you have any pics on what it will look like? That thing's a tower! Also, curious, so far what have you treid that's been your favorite OPamp for tight big bass?


 
 I'm at work so I'll post the pic later. I bought 2 opamps and they cost me less than 10 SGD, shipped to Singapore. Actually even though it might be fake I think it's worth it, as in comparison to the stock one my 2107 did improve the amount of bass and open the soundstage a lot. However treb still sounds a little rolled off, which I recognized even before I moved to my 8820 right now. I've only had the 2107, 8820 and the 8920, and the latter two doesn't come close to the 2107. 
  


futuretrash said:


> I'm bugging out with the Modi 2 > I+ > K712s. I thought my Equator monitors were accurate, I'm hearing so many things in songs I didn't even know were there. Thos Orb Album on vinyl through this rig is unreal. It's like watching a movie through your ears. https://www.discogs.com/Orb-Pomme-Fritz/master/7272
> 
> So far the GE 5654's I got sounds pretty great. I'd love a low end that's a bit tighter and wider though. Mainly just because the music I listen to tends to be driven by the low ends. And for mastering purposes I need to hear my subs, I layer sub frequencies under my basslines and I do a lot of work on music at night when the fam is in la la sleepy land.


 
 You got me excited! I'm having a Modi 2 pending this afternoon. Totally happy with my ODAC I+ combo right now but it's been a long time since I heard something new.
  
 Anyway I have a GE JAN 5654W and I think its bass is actually very lean. For me, this kind of tightly controlled bass serve better on acoustic and Metal. Do try the Mullards if you have the chance, its bass is not only richer but also very natural, perhaps the most euphoric "tube-like" sound I've ever had.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Bad news: My I+ just died. I turned it on and nothing happens. This is two bad. This is my 2nd I+ and it broke down...


----------



## peter123

Does anyone know what the name/size of the screws used to secure the chassis is? Mine is missing a couple and I'd really like to find new ones, thanks.


----------



## AzraelDarkangel

Ok, installed the Sparko op amp. This is with stock upgraded valvo 6CQ6 tubes. I'm still waiting on Mullard CV4014 tubes. I wish I had a stock unit to switch back and forth. It's difficult to quantify changes. Not burned in yet if that makes a difference, the Sparko is brighter and more airy. Stock felt a tad congested in comparison. You will want warm and laid back tubes with this op amp. I can't tell if bass is a tad less or the brighter presentation hides it a bit more. Right now I can't listen as loud as before otherwise the highs become painful. The opened up top presents more details. I'll let you know if burn in changes anything later or I notice other differences.


----------



## futuretrash

Is this common? What's the warrantee? Seems like it could be repaired yes?


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

futuretrash said:


> Is this common? What's the warrantee? Seems like it could be repaired yes?


 
 I suppose you were asking me so thankfully it was the fuse. Never had a heart attack like this one before.
  
 Also to everyone: the fuse in the I+ is 300mA, so if you want to stock it in advance, you know what to buy.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

azraeldarkangel said:


> Ok, installed the Sparko op amp. This is with stock upgraded valvo 6CQ6 tubes. I'm still waiting on Mullard CV4014 tubes. I wish I had a stock unit to switch back and forth. It's difficult to quantify changes. Not burned in yet if that makes a difference, the Sparko is brighter and more airy. Stock felt a tad congested in comparison. You will want warm and laid back tubes with this op amp. I can't tell if bass is a tad less or the brighter presentation hides it a bit more. Right now I can't listen as loud as before otherwise the highs become painful. The opened up top presents more details. I'll let you know if burn in changes anything later or I notice other differences.


 
 If your Mullards are anything like mine I strongly suspect that the highs will not become less painful. Siemens or EI Yugos tubes would offset the highs more.


----------



## AzraelDarkangel

Also ordered a matched pair of GE JAN5654W tubes to try out too along with the Mullard CV4014.


----------



## futuretrash

So I received my Burr Brown Branded OPA2107 from a US seller int he mail today and installed it right away. Immediately I can hear a tighter more detailed lower end. No doubt. Thank you for all the recommendations guy. Going to continue to let my new K712's and the tubes burn in for another couple weeks and see where things land. After that I may add a pair of the Mullard M8100 tubes. The way I can tell these are tighter int he low end is I'm mastering some of my ytracks this morning and I'm boincing back and forth between the headphones and my Equator D5s, and with the OPAMP the balance and character of the low end int he track is way more similar to the monitors' presentation. Listening to MP3 on Soundcloud, the headphones actually have a more accurate low end presentation than my D5s!


----------



## Arsis

futuretrash said:


> So I received my Burr Brown Branded OPA2107 from a US seller int he mail today and installed it right away. Immediately I can hear a tighter more detailed lower end. No doubt. Thank you for all the recommendations guy. Going to continue to let my new K712's and the tubes burn in for another couple weeks and see where things land. After that I may add a pair of the [COLOR=333333]Mullard M8100 tubes. The way I can tell these are tighter int he low end is I'm mastering some of my ytracks this morning and I'm boincing back and forth between the headphones and my Equator D5s, and with the OPAMP the balance and character of the low end int he track is way more similar to the monitors' presentation. Listening to MP3 on Soundcloud, the headphones actually have a more accurate low end presentation than my D5s![/COLOR]


Something about MP3+Soundcloud= accurate just does not compute for me.


----------



## futuretrash

I was waiting for this one. So I'll explain.
  
 I have a few scenarios I "listen" in. My records, from a turntable. Could be anything from Brian Eno to Miles Davis to Allman Brothers to Dance / Electronic music. But that's the luxury listening. I'm also a producer and I make dance music. I am very often listening to other artists who I admire, or listening to my mixes that were commissioned, or, listening to my demos that I'm submitting to labels for release consideration. There really isn't anything like Soundcloud for electronic music, it's just a giant community, so I spend a lot of time there, and I've done my best to make it as high a quality listening experience as possible. Or I'm listening to hi res waves and AIFF files in itunes. And some flacs as well.
  
 But I'm also dancing around this weird game of writing music > exporting stems and Mastering Music (very high res) > then trying to get the sound that will be on my records onto an MP3 that doesn't lose the main groove of the song or sound bad or inbalanced. So I'm tuned into the sound at various bit rates and quality levels. They all have a place in my world, but truth be told, I'm listening to other people's song and mixes in demo form on Soundcloud a lot, and so there it is, MP3 quality is actually a really important thing in the game of getting your tracks heard and released in the world of underground music.
  
 And so I just got 4 songs signed and are ramped up fro vinyl mastering this week, presales on Juno should come soon. Those records I'll play in clubs and listen to on my turntable. But the songs, to get them signed and noticed, they live in the Mp3 world until they;re signed and ported to mastering at a super high res level.
  
 On Soundcloud even though it is MP3's well mastered music will sound quite good on a good system. It is what it is.
  
 Make sense?


----------



## AzraelDarkangel

I'm still confused about when to change the jumpers. I didn't look to see how they were marked when I installed the op amp. It came with an EF92 family tube, 6CQ6 but I bought an EF91 family tube Mullard CV4014 and a EF95 family GE JAN5654W.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

azraeldarkangel said:


> I'm still confused about when to change the jumpers. I didn't look to see how they were marked when I installed the op amp. It came with an EF92 family tube, 6CQ6 but I bought an EF91 family tube Mullard CV4014 and a EF95 family GE JAN5654W.


 
 I'm not 100% sure, but I think EF91 and EF92 can use the same settings.
  
 You'd definitely have to change the jumpers for EF95.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

This is my 2107, and I don't know if they're genuine. One thing's for sure is that they cost less than $5.


----------



## futuretrash

williamleonhart said:


> This is my 2107, and I don't know if they're genuine. One thing's for sure is that they cost less than $5.


 
  
 Looks authentic to me. But what do I know?


----------



## gibosi

williamleonhart said:


> This is my 2107, and I don't know if they're genuine. One thing's for sure is that they cost less than $5.


 
  
 As inexpensive as the 2107 is, I can't imagine anyone spending significant time and money to make a counterfeit. On the other hand, given the list price of some of the MUSES products, they may well be worth counterfeiting. That said, I doubt that even counterfeit MUSES are all the common. I have never seen one nor do I know anyone who has...


----------



## futuretrash

gibosi said:


> As inexpensive as the 2107 is, I can't imagine anyone spending significant time and money to make a counterfeit. On the other hand, given the list price of some of the MUSES products, they may well be worth counterfeiting. That said, I doubt that even counterfeit MUSES are all the common. I have never seen one nor do I know anyone who has...


 
  
 All you need to do is go to Fasttech and you'll see thousands of ripoffs in the 1 - 5 dollar range. I'm pretty sure these get sold in bulk. I could see them being faked, with fair to good (maybe even great) quality reproduction, that's almost more likely than just faked with the intention of ripping someone off with bunk materials. China's copying craze is in full effect.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

I was actually more concerned about the 2107 than the MUSES, since my 8820 and 8920 was gifted by a good friend and they sound a lot like what people've said about the MUSES 02. Of course I believe the 02 will be much better but right now I can't be more happy with my MUSES. My 2107 definitely opened up the sound from the stock OPAMP, the bass was good but its trebles sound noticeably rolled-off to me. I ordered it from that seller janeh, I think.


----------



## gibosi

Fair enough, perhaps there are fakes on Fasttech, but then, I have never tried to find fakes. I try to find the genuine article. 
  
 It has been my experience that if one is careful, practices due diligence, counterfeits are not the problem that some would have us believe. I too, have had very good experience with janeh2100. But again, this is my opinion based on my experience. YMMV...
  
 Cheers


----------



## iamxLn

williamleonhart said:


> I was actually more concerned about the 2107 than the MUSES, since my 8820 and 8920 was gifted by a good friend and they sound a lot like what people've said about the MUSES 02. Of course I believe the 02 will be much better but right now I can't be more happy with my MUSES. My 2107 definitely opened up the sound from the stock OPAMP, the bass was good but its trebles sound noticeably rolled-off to me. I ordered it from that seller janeh, I think.


 
 the treble on that opamp IS rolled off.


----------



## gibosi

iamxln said:


> the treble on that opamp IS rolled off.


 
  
 I would agree. The treble is bit rolled off with the 2107 and I felt that vocals sounded a bit "shouty". I found the MUSES 02 to be a significant upgrade to the 2107, especially the mids and highs.
  
 Edit: And as I recall, I obtained the 2107 directly from the manufacturer as a free sample, so it was definitely not a fake.


----------



## futuretrash

williamleonhart said:


> It seems the tube is valid.
> 
> Now on the opamp, yes it is easy, especially if you have long nails (just a bit longer that your teacher'd like).
> 
> ...


 
 Hey I wanted to thank you for this, I cut and pasted this into evernote and followed it without a hitch thanks, this was really thoughtful of you post post here. Happy Sunday.


----------



## futuretrash

I'm sure you're fine, gut instincts go a long way.


----------



## futuretrash

@gibosi: The MUSES 02, how is the low end?


----------



## gibosi

futuretrash said:


> @gibosi: The MUSES 02, how is the low end?


 
  
 I have not listened to my LD1+ in over a year, so I cannot answer in detail... Perhaps others with more recent experience will chime in here. I do know that when I pulled the 2107 out and put the MUSES 02 in, nothing was lacking.


----------



## futuretrash

On the Muses 02 OPAMP on Amazon I'm reading "In my setup the Muse offered superior bass and bass texture.". Sounds good.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

futuretrash said:


> Hey I wanted to thank you for this, I cut and pasted this into evernote and followed it without a hitch thanks, this was really thoughtful of you post post here. Happy Sunday.


 
 Very happy to help!
  
 Has anyone here tried modding the volume potentiometer of the I+? Is there any particular pot that you recommend?


----------



## iamxLn

I don't know which one they use, but a lot of people changes it if you go back in the thread a bit.


----------



## AzraelDarkangel

Ok, I've had a chance to compare 3 sets of tubes: the stock Valvo 6CQ6, Mullard CV4014 and GE JAN 5654W. Keep in mind I have currently installed Sparko op amp. The CV4014 had a similar overall flavor to the 6CQ6, it just felt like someone played with the eq a bit. The mids were a bit more forward which made the CV4014 sound a bit more dynamic and louder regardless of the actual volume. Going to the JAN tubes, the overall sound has a different sonic flavor. The mids and highs are much more enveloping and open. Very beautiful. The soudstage is not really bigger (with my Audio-Technica AD1000x) but is more 3d around my head instead of feeling like I'm listening to mini soundstage on my shoulder. It's a forward and bright sound though and I don't feel like the bass is as deep or impactfull as with the other tubes. However the beautiful mids/highs make up for it so far. I may buy a couple more sets of tubes and Burson and Muses op amps to try at some point.
  
 Joshua


----------



## adtrance

I'm currently using the GE JAN tubes and MUSES02. Very balanced to my ears. Seemed the Voskhods I had in before were more crisp and sometimes tended to be a bit forward sounding during longer sessions.


----------



## AzraelDarkangel

adtrance said:


> I'm currently using the GE JAN tubes and MUSES02. Very balanced to my ears. Seemed the Voskhods I had in before were more crisp and sometimes tended to be a bit forward sounding during longer sessions.


 
 I think I'm going to try to get ahold of some Sylvania Gold Brand 5654 tubes and try out the MUSES02 and Burson V5 op amps. I have some bills I need to take care of this month so it will have to wait till April. I'm pretty happy with the JAN tubes and Sparko op amp right now, though it is a bit brighter overall, better suited to instrumental music and female vocals then say, industrial or metal. But it sounds pretty good on everything so far. I need to give it more time. I love the enveloping sound field. My other tubes sound too constrained.
  
 Joshua
  
 P.S. When I first installed the JAN tubes, I had the voltage jumpers in the wrong slot. I think for 20v (for 408A tubes) instead of 6.5v, they lit up like light bulbs and a high level hum came from my headphones. I immediately shut them off and looking at the instructions realized my mistake. They were on for only 10-15 seconds but I'm probably lucky I didn't burn them out.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Hah, the JAN are my favourite for Metal as they play the guitar sound beautifully. The speed on these tubes, IMO, are much better suited for Metal than Mullards or Siemens.


----------



## AzraelDarkangel

williamleonhart said:


> Hah, the JAN are my favourite for Metal as they play the guitar sound beautifully. The speed on these tubes, IMO, are much better suited for Metal than Mullards or Siemens.


 
 I'm sure it depends on what kind of metal too. I've only had a short listen so far, just letting them burn in. Later today I'll listen to my FLAC of Kurt Cobain Unplugged in NY which is my reference for guitar and male vocals.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

azraeldarkangel said:


> I'm sure it depends on what kind of metal too. I've only had a short listen so far, just letting them burn in. Later today I'll listen to my FLAC of Kurt Cobain Unplugged in NY which is my reference for guitar and male vocals.


 
 That's right. The faster stuffs sound great on the JANs. On slower records I use my Mullards CV4010 more.


----------



## AzraelDarkangel

williamleonhart said:


> That's right. The faster stuffs sound great on the JANs. On slower records I use my Mullards CV4010 more.


 

 What tubes have you tried?


----------



## AzraelDarkangel

Also, my only issue so far with the Sparko/JAN combo is a mild but bothersome forwardness/harshness somewhere in the mids. I would like just a bit more laid back sound. (Of course I'm also listening with mid-forward Audio-Technica phones).
  
 Thinking of trying:
https://www.etsy.com/listing/216058022/pair-sylvania-gold-brand-5654-vacuum
http://www.amazon.com/TELEFUNKEN-Elektroakustik-EF95-6AK5-Copperhead/dp/B01180DVHY
http://www.nostubestore.com/2012/08/philips-miniwatt-ts62-6028-408a.html


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

azraeldarkangel said:


> What tubes have you tried?


 
 Siemens 5654W
 Voshkod 6zh1p-ev (81 version)
 Mullards CV4010
 JAN 5654W
 EI Yugos 6hm5


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

This is from the general LD Tube Rolling thread. Might be of help to those new to tube rolling 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/9855#post_11935523
 Quote:


mikelap said:


> This list might help some of you new to the thread   and is by no means complete.


----------



## drofeel71

drofeel71 said:


> Just procured the Burson V5-OPA-D to install in my Little dot +1. Just waiting for the extender to arrive so I can install it as it won't fit in the case when put directly into the socket. Got great hopes for this opamp, I will report back soon.



The extenders finally arrived, lucky I ordered 2 as I clumsily managed to break a connection on the first installation, too eager to hear the V5. Straight away I can hear a difference between this opamp and my Muses02. 
First impression is of greater detail retrieval, tighter and more refined bass and a more 3D soundstage. This admittedly is after a very short listen using well known tracks to me. Waiting to see if this will change after a period of burn in.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

It's rather surprising to hear some opamp actually beats the the MUSES02. Wow.


----------



## AzraelDarkangel

williamleonhart said:


> It's rather surprising to hear some opamp actually beats the the MUSES02. Wow.


 

 ​I've heard of at least 3 opamps that are supposedly on a higher level than the MUSES02:
 Burson v5: http://www.bursonaudio.com/products/supreme-sound-opamp-v5/
 Sparko Labs: http://sparkoslabs.com/discrete-op-amps/
 Dexa: http://www.newclassd.com/index.php?page=55 
 http://www.partsconnexion.com/opamp_dexa.html
 Also heard something about Sonic Imagery Labs: http://www.sonicimagerylabs.com/products/products_top.html
  
 As far as the Burson/Sparko/Dexa are concerned, found this: http://www.dagogo.com/eastern-electric-minimax-tube-dac-supreme-discrete-opamps-survey


----------



## frogmeat69

Just bought one of these on Amazon for $99, now it seems I have 175 pages of reading to do, lol.
 I already own the MKIII so I have tubes to roll, but thought this might be fun rolling the op amps. Is there a list of op amps with specs on how they sound here? And a good place to buy them?
 Sorry if this has been repeated a million times already, but I gotta ask 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 .


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Right now I'm using the MUSES 8920 and it's very analog-sounding. My most favourite for the I+ so far.
  
 In the post right above yours can find 4 prestigious choices of opamps for the I+, but it's going to cost as much as the amp itself. A lot of people in this thread put their trust in the MUSES02, so perhaps it's your safest place to start.


----------



## Elmojo

Hi all, 
After about 30 years of rolling Guitar valve Amps I have got myself an LD 1+ and a LD MkII. I guess 1+ is the best place to start. I have read through the amazing threads and I think at least got the vibe. 
I love this thread because it seems to balance the fun of listening to music with the science. Five seconds of someone quoting the THD and I am listening to Dire Straights Brothers in Arms. One very well recorded studio album. I refer to some amazing recordings of rag written by Scott Joplin recorded by some guy who had studied and studied him and his music to the point we put the mic in a cardboard box under his piano because he liked the live acoustics.
If you look at a headphone amp from a scientific view it doesn't make any sense.
Its a method that sometimes reproduces a sound that historically takes old recordings produced by musicians using valves for a younger generation looking for that warm sound that we and I crave. 
A guy about two months ago came up toe to toe and said even you can't tell the difference. You know who you are and yes I might build you an Amp. 
However, I have lost the plot. So maybe surprisingly I have always avoided balanced tubes. As this can produce the most boring sound ever heard on earth. Ok in HiFi it seems that some sort matching is required. This intersting as it is totally new to me. 
It is almost impossible to match tubes to about 5%…
They would have had to be manufactured on the same day or at least a week never mind a year that I have seen on here look is people/companies claiming to match tubes. If they are claiming do this on output then the bias circuits should correct this up to about 18 - 20‰. Am I missing something or this marketing. 
I love rolling tubes and it makes a massive difference but I hate the marketing hype. 
If it works for you love it.


----------



## futuretrash

I've had the Little Dot I+ for about a month and I'm happier now than I have been before. I think my personal challenge is matching the right OPAMP and tubes with my headphones, which are AKG K712's. They have an amazing frequency response but they want a ton of power and with the wrong tubes they sound boring and fatigue easily.
  
 I just put a pair of matched Mullar 8100's in and I swapped out the stock OPAMP for a Burr Brown OPA2107 and finally, things sound pretty darned good to me. 
  
 Anyone else using the K712's with the I+?
  
 I'm switching from Grado's and Sennheisers, I'm still getting used to the AKG's.
  
 My Grado SR80's sound amazing through this setup. 
 My Sennheiser HD555s sound wicked too.
 The AKGs sound great .... but I think my ears haven't adjusted. Incredibly accurate and not very forgiving....
  
 I just want to emphasize, the Grado's came ALIVE with this amp. You can hear the phasing in poorly recorded tracks fromt he bass not being aligned to mono, the recording level is amazingly apparent, a great Grado match for sure.


----------



## Elmojo

Hi, Futuretrash, Where to start on this as the Grado and AKG phones have a top heavy design with low impedance I have of course gone against all logic and inserted a MUSES02 I am still playing with several pairs of valves but it would seem that getting the bass back is muddying the sound separation and sound stage. 
One big problem is it takes a couple of weeks to realise what is happening. The human brain fills in the bits that are not there and tries to connect the dots. It is like POV in vision. So it is only when you roll back that you realise how good a combination is. 
Because I use AKG K550 Mk II most of the time I go for warmer sounding valves. I have just joined on here myself if you read back there is a mass of good info on what you are looking for.
Infact to help we should have about six recordings that we're all able to say were recorded by singers and/or band that understood what a recording studio could do. I try to keep to this rule there are two bands that I use as reference for this. Steely Dan a band almost completely composed of session musicians. Talking Heads as they have a collective OSD in studios. A few classical tracks lots old and new Jazz. 
Why because if the musicians are up to speed on the technology they work with the studio engineers to produce something special. In the seventies a lot of singles were mixed or a three inch radio speaker and as such are very poor recordings. They can't be saved by any DAC or valve combinations. So it depends on what you listen to, this is why the old school Philips an Dacca Jazz & Classical on vinyl cost the earth.
If some modern singer(spoilt brat) tried to tell me my job I would hurt them.


----------



## futuretrash

The music I'm listening to and also using these headphones to make is maybe an anomaly. I'm really into groove music that has the melodic line of the song held together primarily by the bassline, but also has a ton of detail in the upper range. But I hear you on the ears filling in the blanks. 
  
 I don't think I can bring myself to buy a $50+ OPAMP as I'm not convinced that it really will make that huge a difference, but I do feel the tubes do. I read through a lot of this thread and I think what I have in there now, the Burr Brown OPA2107 and the Mullard 8100's seem like the closest to what I'm looking for without going batty and just buying things because someone says "Oooh oohhhh I got my money's worth!". There's a ton of confirmation bias on this thread and also a lot of money spent that I think people want to believe was making a big difference, and I'm not going to say I know but I would guess placebo is at play here as well.
  
 I would put also for reference the vinyl version of Erykah Badu's Mama's Gun. That was mastered and engineered by a 5 time Grammy winning engineer that also did D'Angelo's albums and is notorious for being one of the few truly brilliant analog only to tape engineers. He doesn't use plugins and uses an entirely hardware system through a hardware buss for his recordings. These are also very bass heavy recordings / music as well. 
  
 I would love to hear what you enjoyed in your I+, I have read through this thread, I'm not sure exactly what you're suggesting?


----------



## Elmojo

Oh yes I have read through most of the threadsthreads on here. Hence inserting the MUSES02. Many have said this is the end game in Opamp. So figured if I am going to roll valves it will be using this chip. Some of the stuff on here is amazing. My favorite so far is the Little Monster Dot. There is also a girl who is trying out different exotic OpAmps. 
All of which still relies on the studio producer and engineers getting it right in the studio. It is frustrating when a favorite album is badly recorded. 
However, on the plus side I have found albums that people have recommend as well recorded by artists I would not have listened to otherwise.
Modern stuff is almost always well recorded. 
The idea of listening to modern digitally recorded stuff through valves is interesting. I like it because of the warmth. I and many other bands still use valves because of the amazing sound they deliver. When you play a single instrument at volume through valve application you can hear that valve sound very easily. In HiFi or as we do in terms of Headphone Amp it is not so pronounced. But it is there in fact valves in terms of modern discreat chips on paper suck. It is the lack of perfection that makes them sound so good.


----------



## hieraklion

Bonjour from Paris,
  
 I have a question for all the people that tested this Little Dot.
  
 Currently :
 I have the LD I+ with the stock op-amp + WE408A.
 My head-phone is a Fostex TH-600
 I dislike bass and mid-base where they are too present. I prefer the vocal range (I'm listening vocal baroque and trip-hop / electronic)
 It's already an interesting combo.
  
 But ... but what are the optimization you  shoud recommend to me ?
  
 Merci !
 Hieraklion


----------



## Arsis

hieraklion said:


> Bonjour from Paris,
> 
> I have a question for all the people that tested this Little Dot.
> 
> ...


I am currently using we408a with burr brown 2107 and I really like it.


----------



## peter123

hieraklion said:


> Bonjour from Paris,
> 
> I have a question for all the people that tested this Little Dot.
> 
> ...




Hi, 
I've tuned my LD I+ specifically for my Fidelio X2 (with the goal to reduce mid bass and make vocals more forward)and I've ended up (after trying a LOT of combinations ) with the MUSES8820 and Siemens 6AK5W tubes. 

Hope this helps.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

peter123 said:


> Hi,
> I've tuned my LD I+ specifically for my Fidelio X2 (with the goal to reduce mid bass and make vocals more forward)and I've ended up (after trying a LOT of combinations
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Are these the blue-glass ones?


----------



## Darien

I prefer a warm liquid honey vintage tube sound...(i dont like treble) what tubes do you recommend for that with the little dot 1+? Will Voskhod 6ZH1P-EV give me that vintage tube sound?


----------



## iamxLn

no


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

darien said:


> I prefer a warm liquid honey vintage tube sound...(i dont like treble) what tubes do you recommend for that with the little dot 1+? Will Voskhod 6ZH1P-EV give me that vintage tube sound?


 
 Go for Mullards or EI Yugos. The 6hm5 can't do you wrong.


----------



## hieraklion

Thanks. I combo to check. It seems to be one of the favorite.


----------



## hieraklion

Oh


peter123 said:


> Hi,
> I've tuned my LD I+ specifically for my Fidelio X2 (with the goal to reduce mid bass and make vocals more forward)and I've ended up (after trying a LOT of combinations
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Re form Paris,
  
 Oh oh ... It looks my music earing config. Do you tested the MUSE02 with the same tubes ?
 Your behavior ?
 Thanks


----------



## Darien

iamxln said:


> no


 
  
  


williamleonhart said:


> Go for Mullards or EI Yugos. The 6hm5 can't do you wrong.


 
  
  
 right on so would these give me that honey sound that i want?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-Matched-Pair-Mullard-Gt-Britain-6HA5-6HM5-Gray-Plate-Vacuum-Tubes-100-/152063241687?hash=item2367acedd7:glwAAOSwZ1lWewf6
  
  
 also i was wondering : is the littledot 1+ more respected than the vali 2? because i notice otl tube amps are made for higher impedance cans, and the littldot 1+ is more for lower impedance, but thats ok right? cus higher impedance cans aren't necessary better right? cus as far as open cans that are "warm sounding" - there really aren't that many out there. u got 650hd (which is uncomfortable for me) and then you got ma900 which is low impedance and doesnt scale much at all....and thats pretty much it....so i went with k7xx which is kinda warm/neutral - but its low impedance so going for i+...so will that still be respectable? cus i got a 650hd but i cant wear it for more then 5 minutes without pain and i been stretching it for 3 months now!! 
  
 but seems like most audio elites want you to have 650hd or a sharp sounding high impedance beyer or akg, and then an otl tube amp  - but since i dont like the typical beyer or akg sound and 650hd is uncomfortable for me, is it ok to have k7xx + littledot i+?


----------



## peter123

williamleonhart said:


> Are these the blue-glass ones?



No. These ones :





hieraklion said:


> Oh
> 
> Re form Paris,
> 
> ...




No, I'm sorry I haven't got the Muses02.


----------



## Darien

also this is prolly another dumb question, but to change the tube is it just a simple matter of pulling the old one out and pushing the new one in kinda like a light bulb? or do you have to unscrew stuff?


----------



## peter123

darien said:


> also this is prolly another dumb question, but to change the tube is it just a simple matter of pulling the old one out and pushing the new one in kinda like a light bulb? or do you have to unscrew stuff?




As long as you're changing tubes from the same "family" it's just to pull out the old and insert the new. If you switch family you need to go under the hood to switch the jumper settings. Should be well explained in the manual


----------



## Darien

peter123 said:


> As long as you're changing tubes from the same "family" it's just to pull out the old and insert the new. If you switch family you need to go under the hood to switch the jumper settings. Should be well explained in the manual


 
 i see, so is the 6hm5 part of the stock family? (please say yes please say yes please say yes)


----------



## hieraklion

peter123 said:


> No. These ones :
> 
> 
> No, I'm sorry I haven't got the Muses02.


 
  
 No worries. Your advise is intresting.
 Many thanks for sharing.
  
 A ciao from Paris !


----------



## gibosi

peter123 said:


> No. These ones :
> 
> 
> No, I'm sorry I haven't got the Muses02.


 
  
 I have a pair that appear to look just like that one:
  

  
 And if I look carefully, I can see the 5654 USA and a few dots sandblasted into the glass. So mine were actually manufactured by GE, not Siemens.


----------



## peter123

darien said:


> i see, so is the 6hm5 part of the stock family? (please say yes please say yes please say yes)




Sorry, I don't even remember what the stock tubes were (I've had mine for years) but I'm sure someone else will be able to answer that.


----------



## Darien

peter123 said:


> Sorry, I don't even remember what the stock tubes were (I've had mine for years) but I'm sure someone else will be able to answer that.


 
 the stock family is 6JI i believe.


----------



## peter123

hieraklion said:


> No worries. Your advise is intresting.
> Many thanks for sharing.
> 
> A ciao from Paris !




No worries  




gibosi said:


> I have a pair that appear to look just like that one:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Cool stuff 

Edit: looking at my pair I can see the same, never noticed it before....


----------



## gibosi

darien said:


> i see, so is the 6hm5 part of the stock family? (please say yes please say yes please say yes)


 
  
 It depends... Some LD1+ were shipped with EF92, some with EF95 and some with 408A. If you amp came with EF95 tubes installed, you can roll the 6HM5 without changing any jumpers.
  
 Oh...  EF95 = 6AK5 = 5654 = 6J1....


----------



## Darien

gibosi said:


> It depends... Some LD1+ were shipped with EF92, some with EF95 and some with 408A. If you amp came with EF95 tubes installed, you can roll the 6HM5 without changing any jumpers.
> 
> Oh...  EF95 = 6AK5 = 5654 = 6J1....


 
 nice  the one im planning to buy on amazon seems to be 6j1   ill order that and some 6hm5 mullard tubes  so that will give me that honey sweet warm gooey vintage tube amp sound that im after? 
  
 this has been quite a journey...but slowly learning i think...
  
 i guess the first step is to find your favorite headphones that sound good and feel comfy and then choose an amp that suits it best....i was kinda doing things backwards lol...
  
 so i guess in my case its gonna be k7xx+littledot i+ with 6hm5 mullards xD


----------



## frogmeat69

Darien, you might like these tubes, http://www.ebay.com/itm/262251888979?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 Deff. on the warmer side, and are part of the EF95 family, no jumper changes required if going from 6J1 tubes. I have them, a bit pricey but very nice.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Actually I was referring to the EI Yugoslavia 6hm5 which is perhaps the most favorite of everyone here, but I bet the Mullards are going to sound great. Never met Mullards that don't.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

One more thing. The q/k7 family are low-impedance cans, but their very low sensitivity actually makes them one of the harder-to-drive ones. I have never tried any q/k7 with my I+, so it you 'd better do some research to be sure. But I'm under the strong impression that it's gonna be fine.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

gibosi said:


> I have a pair that appear to look just like that one:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Mine look the same as you two's, but they were too polite for my taste. Still having 2 of these but I spend more time on others tube.


----------



## peter123

williamleonhart said:


> Mine look the same as you two's, but they were too polite for my taste. Still having 2 of these but I spend more time on others tube.




Yeah that may very well be. Please remember that I tuned my LD to sound dark the best with the Fidelio X2, not taking any other headphones into consideration. Choice of op amp and the fact that mine were fed by a tube dac will also play a role


----------



## MJLavelle

darien said:


> nice  the one im planning to buy on amazon seems to be 6j1   ill order that and some 6hm5 mullard tubes  so that will give me that honey sweet warm gooey vintage tube amp sound that im after?
> 
> this has been quite a journey...but slowly learning i think...
> 
> ...




If you have not ordered yet, they have this on Massdrop for $89 right now, if they get enough buyers. It just went up, and already has 2 buyers with 6 committed out of 10 total needed with 6 days left, so it should make it. Of course, if you are not on Massdrop, none of that makes any sense to you.... The cheapest version on Amazon is $110, so this is a decent deal, even with the $9 shipping. 
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/little-dot-i-headphone-amp?utm_placement=12&referer=7HUBQ9&mode=guest_open&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Automated%20Daily%20Promotional%202016-04-24&utm_term=Daily%20Promotional


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

mjlavelle said:


> If you have not ordered yet, they have this on Massdrop for $89 right now, if they get enough buyers. It just went up, and already has 2 buyers with 6 committed out of 10 total needed with 6 days left, so it should make it. Of course, if you are not on Massdrop, none of that makes any sense to you.... The cheapest version on Amazon is $110, so this is a decent deal, even with the $9 shipping.
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/little-dot-i-headphone-amp?utm_placement=12&referer=7HUBQ9&mode=guest_open&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Automated%20Daily%20Promotional%202016-04-24&utm_term=Daily%20Promotional


 
 You'd save the most if you go for the version with WE408 tubes.


----------



## aru777

I'm new to tube amplifiers and reading through an old thread http://www.head-fi.org/t/395877/tube-rolling-the-little-dot-i-for-use-with-the-grado-sr225-headphone *Sylvania Gold 408a* seems to work wonders on this amp. (I purchased on little dot on massdrop with stock tubes, waiting for shipment)
  
 I also found this on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/SYLVANIA-GB-408A-GB-408A-GB408A-Tube-4-Pieces-NEW-/121960504865 At *157$ *the price is steep. Could someone with experience on these tubes tell me how they are? Thanks in advance!


----------



## frogmeat69

Running a pair of OPA627AP chips mounted onto a dual to single adapter, originally  bought just one chip then found out I needed 2, oops.
 Anyways, they sound pretty great with a pair of Mullard 8100s so far through my HD 598s.
  
  This is the adapter, http://www.ebay.com/itm/281639973890?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 And the Op Amp, you need 2, http://www.ebay.com/itm/281928025919?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Have been spending more time with my RTC 5654RT and I think I enjoy them even more than my Mullards, though the signature is quite the same.


----------



## hieraklion

Bonjour from Paris,
  
 Currently, I have I+ with WE408A. I will try the MUSES8820 and Siemens 6AK5W combo.
 Few questions :
  
 1/ Where do you recommend to buy ?
 2/ Do I need an adapter for op-amp (in order to avoid to destroy everything in case I change the of op-amp change often ?)
  
 Thanks
 Hieraklion


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

1, ebay. There're plenty of dealers with high ratings. 
2, no you won't. Just pay attention to the direction you're putting the opamp.


----------



## gulakpi

If you will be using the 8820 Op-amp, you don't need any adapters!
 Just pay attention to the orientation of the Op-amp (there is a notch on one end of the Op-amp for identification!)


----------



## AzraelDarkangel

I'm using the RTC 5654RT (re-branded Mullard 8100) also with Sparko's Lab op amp which sounds better than the Burson v5. I'm curious to try the 6HM5 EC900 EI Yugoslavia, Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV, and Sylvania Gold Brand 5654 but I'm really happy with my current tubes. I like them better than GE JAN5654W which I had before.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

azraeldarkangel said:


> I'm using the RTC 5654RT (re-branded Mullard 8100) also with Sparko's Lab op amp which sounds better than the Burson v5. I'm curious to try the 6HM5 EC900 EI Yugoslavia, Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV, and Sylvania Gold Brand 5654 but I'm really happy with my current tubes. I like them better than GE JAN5654W which I had before.


 
 Haha except for the Sylvanias I've got all the tubes you mentioned in this post. But make sure to pay attention to the Voshs you buy. If they don't have the Rocket logo, stay away.


----------



## AzraelDarkangel

Sylvania Gold Brand 5654 are harder to find and a bit expensive, there is some on ebay at around $80/pair. Still wouldn't mind owning a pair. All the other tubes I mentioned are also favorites of various persons. But if I spend much more, it would be more cost effective to just buy a better amp. I've already spent triple the initial price of the amp. I'm tempted to buy
http://www.musicalparadise.ca/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=54 
 as my next amp.


----------



## gibosi

azraeldarkangel said:


> Sylvania Gold Brand 5654 are harder to find and a bit expensive, there is some on ebay at around $80/pair. Still wouldn't mind owning a pair. All the other tubes I mentioned are also favorites of various persons. But if I spend much more, it would be more cost effective to just buy a better amp. I've already spent triple the initial price of the amp. I'm tempted to buy
> http://www.musicalparadise.ca/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=54
> as my next amp.


 
  
 I have never heard this amp, so of course, I am only speculating... but I doubt that it is significantly "better" than the LD in terms of sonics.
  
 Like the LD, it too uses pentodes for drivers. Although I don't know for sure, it is likely that these pentodes are converted into triodes by strapping, in the same manner as the LD, which is typical when pentodes are used for audio frequency amplification. And strapping typically decreases linearity and increases distortion. So unless the pentode was explicitly designed to be strapped into a triode, which is very rare, the results may not be all that great. And no, the 6SH7 was not designed to be triode-strapped...
  
 So in my opinion, if you want an amp that is "better" that the LD, sonically, the amp should use natural triodes as drivers, characterized by their low distortion and high linearity, such as 6SN7, 6DJ8, 2C51, and similar.
  
 That said, the one feature that this amp has which might make it "better" is that it can drive loud-speakers. And if this is desirable, the MP-301 Mk 3 might be a very affordable "upgrade".
  
 Again, my usual disclaimer applies... This is only my speculation and opinion... YMMV... 
  
 PS: In my experience, it doesn't matter which tube-amp you buy. Before you know it, you will be lusting after tubes that cost as much, or more, that the original cost of the amp. lol


----------



## AzraelDarkangel

gibosi said:


> I have never heard this amp, so of course, I am only speculating... but I doubt that it is significantly "better" than the LD in terms of sonics.
> 
> Like the LD, it too uses pentodes for drivers. Although I don't know for sure, it is likely that these pentodes are converted into triodes by strapping, in the same manner as the LD, which is typical when pentodes are used for audio frequency amplification. And strapping typically decreases linearity and increases distortion. So unless the pentode was explicitly designed to be strapped into a triode, which is very rare, the results may not be all that great. And no, the 6SH7 was not designed to be triode-strapped...
> 
> ...


 

 You are right on about the MP-301 Mk3. The reason I want it is to drive (single driver high efficiency) speakers as well as headphones. Also the more common and powerful tubes is uses. I bought the Little Dot just to get my feet wet with various tube types and tube rolling. It's a great amp once upgraded.
  
 I never read about this but I started with EF92 tubes (2 different sets) but the soundstage was compressed like miniature size as if sitting on my shoulders. I tried EF95 tube types and the soundstage envelopes my head, not huge and expansive but bigger and very 3d (With Audio-Technica AD1000X headphones). World class op-amp helps lots too.


----------



## frogmeat69

gibosi said:


> PS: In my experience, it doesn't matter which tube-amp you buy. *Before you know it, you will be lusting after tubes that cost as much, or more, that the original cost of the amp. lol *


 
 Which isn't hard to do, considering the low cost of the 1+.


----------



## gulakpi

frogmeat69 said:


> Which isn't hard to do, considering the low cost of the 1+.


 
  
 And luckily, the EF95 tubes are rather inexpensive, relatively!


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Yep I had the Aune T1 and even though it was 1 tube, the price of ef95 in pairs is still a blessing. That said my ef95 collection must be worth more than my I+


----------



## frogmeat69

I have about 16 or 17 pairs of tubes, in which only 4 pairs are not EF95's, there are 2 pairs of EF92's, 1 EF91, and a pair of C3G's with adapters which cost more than the 1+.
 I have both a 1+ and a Mk III, so they get swapped out a bit.
 Kinda regret the C3G purchase, I always seem to end up using the Mullard tubes I have the most. Just got some Russian 6N6P-IR power tubes so gotta see how the C3Gs sound with them.


----------



## gulakpi

I kinda like the C3g. It pairs nicely with the 6H30Pi power tubes on my Mk4 and also on the little LD1+.
 I also have 9 pairs of EF95 tubes (most are inexpensive and some need strapping as EF95).
 Also I've built adapters to use my dozens of old 6DJ8 and 12AX7 tubes, which sounds extremely smooth as well. 
 Enjoying it!


----------



## frogmeat69

Not saying the C3G's don't sound nice, they do, but they cost a lot and I get just as much enjoyment from tubes that were one tenth the price.
 Actually, I don't think I have tried them on the 1+ yet, got something to do now, lol.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

gulakpi said:


> I kinda like the C3g. It pairs nicely with the 6H30Pi power tubes on my Mk4 and also on the little LD1+.
> I also have 9 pairs of EF95 tubes (most are inexpensive and some need strapping as EF95).
> Also I've built adapters to use my dozens of old 6DJ8 and 12AX7 tubes, which sounds extremely smooth as well.
> Enjoying it!


 Is it possible to create adapter to turn ef95 into 6dj8? It would be great if I can reuse my tube collection for some other amp, especially the aune t1


----------



## gibosi

williamleonhart said:


> Is it possible to create adapter to turn ef95 into 6dj8? It would be great if I can reuse my tube collection for some other amp, especially the aune t1


 
  
 Yes, it is possible, but to the best of my knowledge, a nice simple plug and play adapter does not exist. Rather, it is necessary to buy a few parts and wire them together. And the result is somewhat ugly and messy -- a Little "Monster" Dot, if you will. lol 
  
 In short, to use 6DJ8, all you need is a 9-pin breadboard socket and two 7-pin test sockets.
  
 However, if you wish to roll double triodes drawing more than 0.45 amps of heater current, for example, 6SN7, it is necessary to put together an external heater supply as well.
  
 So this will work for 6DJ8, 2C51 and similar low current double triodes.
  

  
 And for higher current double triodes, an external heater power supply consisting of a step-down voltage regulator and a an AC to DC power supply is necessary. You might already have an AC to DC power supply, for example, an extra laptop power supply. Just make sure it is rated for at least 1.5A.
  

  
 For more information, check out the Little Dot Tube Amps: Vacuum Tube Rolling Guide forum...


----------



## AzraelDarkangel

frogmeat69 said:


> Not saying the C3G's don't sound nice, they do, but they cost a lot and I get just as much enjoyment from tubes that were one tenth the price.
> Actually, I don't think I have tried them on the 1+ yet, got something to do now, lol.


 

 I was curious about the C3G's but they are expensive plus adapters. I wasn't sure it was worth it.


----------



## gulakpi

williamleonhart said:


> Is it possible to create adapter to turn ef95 into 6dj8? It would be great if I can reuse my tube collection for some other amp, especially the aune t1


 
  
 I believe you want it the other way around -- to use your collection of EF95 on your Aune, correct?
 You will be using 2 pentrodes per channel to replace one dual-triode.
 I should be possible but you have to build your own adapters.  I did not recall I've seen any of these available commercially.
  
 I use one 6DJ8/7308/E88CC to replace the 2 EF95 on my Little Dot, and love it!


----------



## gulakpi

azraeldarkangel said:


> I was curious about the C3G's but they are expensive plus adapters. I wasn't sure it was worth it.


 
  
 My ranking:    C3g > 6HM5 > M8100 > 6AU6(strapped as EF95) on my system.   YMMV!
  
 I do not like the Voskhod too much.  I found them a bit too bright!


----------



## gibosi

Has anyone tried the 6AQ6 / 6AT6 / 6AV6 family? To my ears, a pair of 1958 GE 6AV6, with rectangular getters, sounded better than the 6HM5....


----------



## gulakpi

My Mullard M8100 is the square getter type.  
 Has anyone tried the round getter type?  Are there any differences sonically?


----------



## gibosi

gulakpi said:


> My Mullard M8100 is the square getter type.
> Has anyone tried the round getter type?  Are there any differences sonically?


 
  
 Generally, rectangular getters indicate 1940's and '50's production. Round getters appeared around 1960. While the getter shape has absolutely no effect on the sonics, the getter shape provides some indication of when a tube was manufactured. And in my experience, tubes manufactured in the 1940's and 1950's have better sonics than those manufactured later.
  
 It is my believe that the primary reason older tubes sound better is that in the 1940's and '50's vacuum tubes were state-of-the-art and considerable research and development dollars were dedicated to making them better. However, by the 1960's, solid state was the new SOTA, and any research and development dollars directed towards vacuum tubes had the aim of making them as cheaply as possible in order to keep the old and obsolete tube gear running.
  
 Therefore, it is my practice, when at all possible, to purchase older tubes, that is, those with rectangular getters. And to use the 6AV6 as a example, the older GE with rectangular getters definitely sound better than more recent production. That said, I have no idea if older M8100 sound better than later production.... And of course, my ears and my gear... YMMV.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Has anyone tried the Burson SS with the I+? I have read somewhere that it might not fit into the case. Is there anything that I can buy to make it fit or should I try to cut open the panel below the amp?


----------



## gulakpi

Thank you, as always!  @gibosi


----------



## peter123

williamleonhart said:


> Has anyone tried the Burson SS with the I+? I have read somewhere that it might not fit into the case. Is there anything that I can buy to make it fit or should I try to cut open the panel below the amp?


 
 Yes, Burson sells some kind of adapter for them. I don't think that it's listed on their website but I've asked them a while ago and they confirmed they've got it. I ended up buying another amp instead so never got to try it out. 
  
 Burson people are very helpful so just contact them and I'm sure they'll guide you in the right direction.


----------



## AzraelDarkangel

williamleonhart said:


> Has anyone tried the Burson SS with the I+? I have read somewhere that it might not fit into the case. Is there anything that I can buy to make it fit or should I try to cut open the panel below the amp?


 
 The Burson V5 op amp? I bought the 35mm extender and bent it sideways to fit. It's a pain in the ass but you can shoehorn it in. But I thought the Sparko's Lab op amp sounded better when comparing the two and it easily fits. The Burson sounded darker and more congested.


----------



## AzraelDarkangel

gulakpi said:


> My ranking:    C3g > 6HM5 > M8100 > 6AU6(strapped as EF95) on my system.   YMMV!
> 
> I do not like the Voskhod too much.  I found them a bit too bright!


 

 ​I'll try the 6HM5 next.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

gibosi said:


> Yes, it is possible, but to the best of my knowledge, a nice simple plug and play adapter does not exist. Rather, it is necessary to buy a few parts and wire them together. And the result is somewhat ugly and messy -- a Little "Monster" Dot, if you will. lol
> 
> In short, to use 6DJ8, all you need is a 9-pin breadboard socket and two 7-pin test sockets.
> 
> ...


 
 Extremely impressive work! I will look into the thread ASAP.


gulakpi said:


> I believe you want it the other way around -- to use your collection of EF95 on your Aune, correct?
> You will be using 2 pentrodes per channel to replace one dual-triode.
> I should be possible but you have to build your own adapters.  I did not recall I've seen any of these available commercially.
> 
> I use one 6DJ8/7308/E88CC to replace the 2 EF95 on my Little Dot, and love it!


 
  Thanks for the answer. I really liked my e88cc but it costed too much trying to keep 2 separate tube collection at the same time.
 Quote:


peter123 said:


> Yes, Burson sells some kind of adapter for them. I don't think that it's listed on their website but I've asked them a while ago and they confirmed they've got it. I ended up buying another amp instead so never got to try it out.
> 
> Burson people are very helpful so just contact them and I'm sure they'll guide you in the right direction.


 
  
 Yep I'm in contact with Burson and they're extremely nice. Too bad I forgot about the adapter, but there will be a way to use the v5, I guess.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

azraeldarkangel said:


> ​I'll try the 6HM5 next.


 
 The 6hm5 is best in my books. They are DIRT CHEAP too.
  
 But I like the Voshkhods also. You have to find THE RIGHT VOSHKHODS. At first I shipped 4 tubes but they all sucked. The current 2 that I'm having, they belong to the league of Mullards and 6hm5.


----------



## hieraklion

williamleonhart said:


> 1, ebay. There're plenty of dealers with high ratings.
> 2, no you won't. Just pay attention to the direction you're putting the opamp.


 
   
 



gulakpi said:


> If you will be using the 8820 Op-amp, you don't need any adapters!
> Just pay attention to the orientation of the Op-amp (there is a notch on one end of the Op-amp for identification!)


 
  
  
 Thanks sir !


----------



## sayitaintsoap

So my LD1+ just came in the mail today. Dumb question but inserting the tubes, there was some resistance. I had to sort of wiggle them in there. Just wondering if that's proper?


----------



## frogmeat69

sayitaintsoap said:


> So my LD1+ just came in the mail today. Dumb question but inserting the tubes, there was some resistance. I had to sort of wiggle them in there. Just wondering if that's proper?


 

 Yes, that is normal.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

sayitaintsoap said:


> So my LD1+ just came in the mail today. Dumb question but inserting the tubes, there was some resistance. I had to sort of wiggle them in there. Just wondering if that's proper?


 
 LD just produce the amp, not the tubes that come with it. Some tubes might fit well, some tubes don't. It's perfectly normal.


----------



## White Lotus

Subbed, pretty interested in one of these for my DT880 and grados.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

white lotus said:


> Subbed, pretty interested in one of these for my DT880 and *grados*.


trust me, you won't be disappointed.


----------



## sayitaintsoap

Anyone know how the Little Dot 1+ compares to the vali 2 when paired with grados? Not sure which amp I should spring for


----------



## wonderbrah

How much burn in time on average for the *Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV? *I'm been using the stock 6JI tubes it came with for a few days now and I love the sound they're putting out. I wasn't even aware burn in was a thing but looking back, I did hear significant static noise often during listening which appears to be eliminated now. Probably have at least 30 hours of burn-in at this point and they sound fantastic. Now I just received the Voshkod tubes today and put em in expecting them to instantly outperform the tubes they're replacing but that is not the case. They actually sound significantly worse. To my amateur and uneducated audio ears they sound more "full" but at the expense of less dynamic range- it's like when you enable volume normalization. The lows and highs just have significantly less impact and are almost non-existent. I'm wondering if this is normal and i can expect these things to open up as time goes by? 
  
 I'm running Windows 10>modi 2(via usb)>LD1+>Grado SR80e. I never changed anything internally (jumpers/switches and what not) on the inside except the gain setting from high to low. I read the 6zh1p are of the same family as the stock tubes so not changes necessary. Also bought the tubes from Yen Audio store on Ebay if that matters.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

sayitaintsoap said:


> Anyone know how the Little Dot 1+ compares to the vali 2 when paired with grados? Not sure which amp I should spring for


As one of those "grado fanboys" I'd say you should go for the LD. The vali I tried didn't sound tubey, in fact I heard Schiit didn't even want the tube sound. Anyway I rolled in one of my Reflektors (can't remember the name) and didn't like it. 
On the other hand I have kept the LD for more than 2 years. That says a lot for some one who changes headphones roughly every 3 months. It pairs very nicely with my Grado and with my current opamp&tubes, can even make the 325e sounds spacious. I even sold my o2 to keep the LD.


----------



## sayitaintsoap

williamleonhart said:


> As one of those "grado fanboys" I'd say you should go for the LD. The vali I tried didn't sound tubey, in fact I heard Schiit didn't even want the tube sound. Anyway I rolled in one of my Reflektors (can't remember the name) and didn't like it.
> On the other hand I have kept the LD for more than 2 years. That says a lot for some one who changes headphones roughly every 3 months. It pairs very nicely with my Grado and with my current opamp&tubes, can even make the 325e sounds spacious. I even sold my o2 to keep the LD.


 
 But now was that the Vali 1 or 2?


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Vali2. It was a pain in the @ss to roll tubes for the Vali 1 and I never bothered looking at it.


----------



## frogmeat69

wonderbrah said:


> How much burn in time on average for the *Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV? *I'm been using the stock 6JI tubes it came with for a few days now and I love the sound they're putting out. I wasn't even aware burn in was a thing but looking back, I did hear significant static noise often during listening which appears to be eliminated now. Probably have at least 30 hours of burn-in at this point and they sound fantastic. Now I just received the Voshkod tubes today and put em in expecting them to instantly outperform the tubes they're replacing but that is not the case. They actually sound significantly worse. To my amateur and uneducated audio ears they sound more "full" but at the expense of less dynamic range- it's like when you enable volume normalization. The lows and highs just have significantly less impact and are almost non-existent. I'm wondering if this is normal and i can expect these things to open up as time goes by?
> 
> I'm running Windows 10>modi 2(via usb)>LD1+>Grado SR80e. I never changed anything internally (jumpers/switches and what not) on the inside except the gain setting from high to low. I read the 6zh1p are of the same family as the stock tubes so not changes necessary. Also bought the tubes from Yen Audio store on Ebay if that matters.


 

 I say give them some time to burn in, then see how they sound. I remember a few people on this thread who preferred  the 6JI tubes sound, you might be one. I love these Mullard EF92/CV4015 tubes I got for my Mk III, but you might hate them, everyone's ears work differently.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

wonderbrah said:


> How much burn in time on average for the [COLOR=333333]*Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV? *[/COLOR]I'm been using the stock 6JI tubes it came with for a few days now and I love the sound they're putting out. I wasn't even aware burn in was a thing but looking back, I did hear significant static noise often during listening which appears to be eliminated now. Probably have at least 30 hours of burn-in at this point and they sound fantastic. Now I just received the Voshkod tubes today and put em in expecting them to instantly outperform the tubes they're replacing but that is not the case. They actually sound significantly worse. To my amateur and uneducated audio ears they sound more "full" but at the expense of less dynamic range- it's like when you enable volume normalization. The lows and highs just have significantly less impact and are almost non-existent. I'm wondering if this is normal and i can expect these things to open up as time goes by?
> 
> I'm running Windows 10>modi 2(via usb)>LD1+>Grado SR80e. I never changed anything internally (jumpers/switches and what not) on the inside except the gain setting from high to low. I read the 6zh1p are of the same family as the stock tubes so not changes necessary. Also bought the tubes from Yen Audio store on Ebay if that matters.


 Can you give a pic of the 6zh1p?


----------



## bluewrx1025

peter123 said:


> Does anyone know what the name/size of the screws used to secure the chassis is? Mine is missing a couple and I'd really like to find new ones, thanks.


 

 Sorry to dig this back up from a couple months ago, but I was reading the thread and noticed you were looking for screws. I ordered these and they fit perfect. 
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/HPI-Racing-Flat-Head-Screw-M3x6mm-10-Pcs-HPIZ525-/371639343423?hash=item56876e593f:g:al0AAOSwkEVXGGzv


----------



## peter123

bluewrx1025 said:


> Sorry to dig this back up from a couple months ago, but I was reading the thread and noticed you were looking for screws. I ordered these and they fit perfect.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/HPI-Racing-Flat-Head-Screw-M3x6mm-10-Pcs-HPIZ525-/371639343423?hash=item56876e593f:g:al0AAOSwkEVXGGzv




Thank you very much, highly appreciated


----------



## bundy

Hi to all, i'm looking for a bit of advice please. I was given an op amp with the code LT1366 cn8 can this be used in my little dot. I have tried looking but i can't find any information on it but that doesn't surprise me as i'm new to computers & even newer to valves & op amps. Any help please.


----------



## gibosi

bundy said:


> Hi to all, i'm looking for a bit of advice please. I was given an op amp with the code LT1366 cn8 can this be used in my little dot. I have tried looking but i can't find any information on it but that doesn't surprise me as i'm new to computers & even newer to valves & op amps. Any help please.


 
  
 I see that you asked this same question about two years ago and I guess you never got an answer....
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/364043/little-dot-i-tube-rolling/1905#post_10648824
  
 I have no experience with this op amp but it looks to be pin-compatible with the op-amp socket in the LD. However, as you note, searching google doesn't turn up anything very useful. So I think the best course of action is to contact Little Dot directly and ask them.


----------



## bundy

Thank you very much for your help. I am sorry for repeating the question, i have had a few strokes & it affects my memory. Do you know if it would do any harm to try it?


----------



## gibosi

I do not "know" for sure that if it would not cause any harm. That said, I seriously doubt that it would do any harm. And as I tend to be more willing than most to try new tubes and op amps, I would definitely give it a try.
  
 But again, if you wish to be cautious, I would suggest that you contact Little Dot directly at <little.tube@gmail.com>
  
 Several years ago (2013), I wrote to them about trying the MUSES01 in my LD and I got a response the very next day.
  
 Good luck!


----------



## bundy

Thank you for the advice gibosi I wrote to the address you provided & I to received a reply the next day. The good news is I can use that op amp (LT1366cn8) in my amp, I will try it later today.


----------



## gibosi

Great! And I hope you will let us know how it sounds.
  
 Cheers


----------



## bundy

I will for sure
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 happy days


----------



## Supurderek

Just wanted to say thank you for all the info! I am afraid this is just a long road of addiction...


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Been quite a few weeks since I receive the V5 SS from Burson and I've been writing a review for the I+ V5 combo. Below are some of my first impressions on this spectacular combo with my beloved Grado SR325e. But first, some photos!
  

_The V5 SS is really much bigger than other opamps._

_Which explains why I can't close the lower panel of my I+_
  

_The I+ have remained pant-less during these past few weeks._
  
  

_The box that the V5 came in next to my LD._
  
*These impressions with the SR325e are just a part of what I intend to say about my V5 I+ in the future. *There will be a ATH-AD2000, a THX00, an AKG K7xx (and perhaps other headphones) in this review as well, but I'll have to wait till July to receive the ATH-AD, so the review will only be completed by then. So without further ado:
  
 My most favorite headphones of all time: Grado SR325e. So favorite that I've sold and bought it again for 3 times (if you also count the 325is, that's 6 times). The SR325e is perhaps one of the most Grado-ish of all Grados with crunchy bass, highly energetic trebles and sweet refined mids, even though the mid-range here can be considered a bit more neutral and less forward than its siblings RS1i or SR60e.
 What would the I+ V5 brings to my 325e? First of all, with the right tube it retains all the thing I love the most about the 325 line: aggressive trebles and textured, forceful bass.
 Take my reference Metal track for example: _I Remain _by Paradise Lost. Each guitar notes rings out really nice into the soundstage, each cymbal crash or snare beat can be felt with the satisfying "crunchie" that I've come to love from the 325 line. Most beautiful and addictive of all is the distorted guitar sound: one again, it's as if you can count each layer inside the riff. Think of the words that are often used to name those Metal subgenres. "Groove", "Grind(core)", "Industrial", "Thrash" etc. The riffs on my V5 I+ 325e combo are going to turn all those lousy names into reality.
 The Burson V5 SS must play some role in bringing out the bass and the low-mid sections from my SR325e, as my old MUSES8820 reduced these to _...And Justice for All_ level. That was the reason why my GE JAN 5654W never got much love while the MUSES was driving my I+, but now with the V5 SS I can certainly enjoy the sparkly trebles and the slightly accented mids.
 On the other hand, it's quite obvious to me that the V5SS gives a smoother, more laid-back sound than the 8820. No wonder my Siemens 5654W turns out to be too smooth, too laid-back to pair with the V5 SS on my I+. These tubes practically muffle everything from _November Rain _(Guns n' Roses) to _Angels _(Within Temptation).
 It can be said that the level of smooth-ness and forward-ness determines which tubes pair well and which don't with my I+ V5. My Voskhods 6ZH1P-EV, while also belong to the "warmer" group, doesn't take the bites away from my SR325e. Or, my CV4010 would turn my Nightwish listening session into a bombastic cinematic experience that any Tarja Turunen fan should have the chance to enjoy. It's is with this combo that _Over the Hills and Faraway _fires its denied-for-10-years emotions into the oceanic soundstage.
 Wait, what did I say? "Soundstage"? Yep that's right, with the I+ V5 now my SR325e actually has a big one! Ask any Grado fan (like me) about these Brooklyn handmade's weakness and the first word comes to mind should be soundstage. Thankfully the I+ V5 is here to help! Actually, my tubes and the Little Dot already opens the soundstage a bit in comparison to the benchmark O2 ODAC sound, but it's with the V5 SS that a Grado fan can experience the spacious feeling that, say, AKG K612 users are used to. Now instead of me sitting onstage with the guitarist, the bassist and the drummers, I can hear them playing onstage with me taking a comfortable sip in a middle-row seat. Sure, it does take a bit of intimacy away, but that's totally acceptable for someone who's not really into Jazz like me. It's interesting to hear the wife proclaim "Oh, it sounds really wide!", which she never did on a Grado.
 That all said, the soundstage here is more wide than deep, and it's still not as 3D as what you'd have on a true crossfade amp/DAC. But don't be surprised if upgrading the stock opamp to the V5 SS feels like you just switched headphones. 
 Details have never been a strength of the SR325e in comparison to its higher-priced siblings in the RS, PS and GS lines, but at least on my I+ V5 there's no such thing as "I can hear this on the $700 RS1i but it's nowhere to be found on the SR325e". The quality of those details is another matter, but I think the Eagles diehard in me is quite pleased with what I got on _Hell Freezes Over_. And let's face a somewhat unpleasant truth: the LD I+ is a cheap tube amp, so in the stock configuration more often than not it would take away those micro details we crave rather than accent them up. The V5 opamp and more detail-oriented tubes like the GE JAN and the Voshkhods would help resolve that problem, though much cheaper opamp like the MUSES8820 and 8920 can also do that. Anyway, just take away the stock opamp and put into the I+ something of quality and you can enjoy nitpicking those details out of your favorite Indie tracks.
  

_My beautiful, beautiful SR325e._
  
 One thing I like the most about Grados is how easy it is to change the sound by changing the pads. This adds another dimension to the tune-ability of the whole sound signature. On songs where even the V5 SS cannot help the bass to be more prominent, I'd change to using the Sennheiser HD414 pads. Normally, this would result in a very unpleasant trade-off: the Grado soundstage, small as it is, would get reduced even more. Even Radiohead or Pink Floyd would become claustrophobic in that case. This is one more instance where the expansive V5 soundstage helps: it helps balance out the closeness that the Sennheiser pads bring, allowing me to enjoy the bass without any particular trade-offs.
 All in all (for the SR325e), experiment all you can, but I think how much you'd like the V5 on your LD I+ really depends on what kind of tubes and what kind of headphones you're using. For me, the tube shouldn't be too laid back.


----------



## sayitaintsoap

Anyone know a good place to buy a pair of M8083 tubes? I don't see any on Yen's Audio store, practically the only trusted place I've read about.


----------



## AzraelDarkangel

I tried the Burson in my Little Dot 1+ but I like the Sparkos Labs op amp better. But the Burson is a bit darker so might suit bright headphones better. I just felt the Burson was a bit more closed in or even congested compared to the Sparkos. I have Audio-Technica AD1000X headphones.


----------



## gibosi

sayitaintsoap said:


> Anyone know a good place to buy a pair of M8083 tubes? I don't see any on Yen's Audio store, practically the only trusted place I've read about.


 
  
 Just for the record, I have considerably more than 1000 tubes, most of which have been purchased from a large number of eBay vendors. So. From my perspective, the notion that Yen's Audio is the "only" trusted place seems unnecessarily cautious. But perhaps the British company, Langrex, might be acceptable to you.
  
 http://www.langrex.co.uk/
  
 And fortunately, they have a presence on eBay and are offering matched pairs of Mullard M8083:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/M8083-EF91-SPECIAL-CV5377-MULLARD-MATCHED-PAIR-NOS-/260735396781


----------



## sayitaintsoap

gibosi said:


> Just for the record, I have considerably more than 1000 tubes, most of which have been purchased from a large number of eBay vendors. So. From my perspective, the notion that Yen's Audio is the "only" trusted place seems unnecessarily cautious. But perhaps the British company, Langrex, might be acceptable to you.
> 
> http://www.langrex.co.uk/
> 
> ...


 
  
 Oh no, I meant that I am very little versed on the subject of tube buying and from the little research I have done, I have only heard of Yen's audio store being a good to go vendor from the Headfi community. I'm sure there are plenty of others and I will check out Langrex. I've only had my little dot, my first tube amp for a few weeks, haha.


----------



## gulakpi

I also have good experiences with Langrex.  
 I bought a pair of tubes from them awhile ago.  The tubes were received good, but one piece lost sound after 4 days.  They shipped me a new tube promptly without any questions!


----------



## CJG888

+1 on Langrex. Plus, they know how to pack tubes properly for shipping!


----------



## CannedWheat

So I'm new to the tube amp business, so I'm not sure what would be good or not tube wise.  I have the opportunity to buy a pair of 1945 Western electric 6AK5 tubes, and im not sure it would be worth it would they be decent? I would appreciate any and all help.


 Thanks


----------



## Tadamn

Some opinions after a long use of it?


----------



## richie60

When I got my Little Dot 1+ last year, wasn't happy with the sound, so ordered the Voshkod EF95 tubes and a Burr Brown OPA2107 opamp.  These were way too bright sounding with my Grado SR325i's.  Been doing some reading on this thread over the last few weeks and today received some Mullard EF91 M8083 blue glass tubes.
  
 What a difference.  Much nicer to listen to, less bright, bass appears fuller while still retaining clarity.  Currently spinning some vinyl...


----------



## sayitaintsoap

richie60 said:


> When I got my Little Dot 1+ last year, wasn't happy with the sound, so ordered the Voshkod EF95 tubes and a Burr Brown OPA2107 opamp.  These were way too bright sounding with my Grado SR325i's.  Been doing some reading on this thread over the last few weeks and today received some Mullard EF91 M8083 blue glass tubes.
> 
> What a difference.  Much nicer to listen to, less bright, bass appears fuller while still retaining clarity.  Currently spinning some vinyl...


 
 Nice, those are the tubes I'm looking at. Where'd you get them from?


----------



## richie60

Got them from a seller on ebay.  He had the last two in stock!


----------



## CannedWheat

sayitaintsoap said:


> Nice, those are the tubes I'm looking at. Where'd you get them from?


 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mullard-CV4014-6064-M8083-EF91-6AM6-6AM6S-NOS-matched-pair-tubes-square-getter-/222158622445?hash=item33b9af8eed:g:WOUAAOSwAYtWKNzR 
  
 Here is a link to a pair that I saw earlier today.


----------



## frogmeat69

I got a pair from this seller,
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/EF91-CV4014-MULLARD-NOS-MATCHED-PAIR-NEW-lot-2pcs-/152139856313?hash=item236c3df9b9:g:FPUAAOSw2ENW8Z2g
  
  Nice sounding tubes, some of my favorites, and a lot cheaper than above link, just might take a few weeks to get to you.


----------



## msknight

OK - I've dropped on an LD I+ - I've been reading and watching some reviews and a common complaint is that the manual is not easy to read.
  
 My main concern is that I need to alter jumpers for the 5654 valves that I've already got. Can anyone offer any advice please? Are there clearer instructions anywhere?
  
 Also, I've heard about the OpAmp replacements, and have tried to follow a number of pages, but I can't handle all 182 pages, so if someone can pass on some advice on OpAmp's, I'd be grateful.
  
 Listening goes all through, vocal, brass, rock, headphones I'm using these days are mostly Sen 600 and Beyer 990 Pro.


----------



## richie60

I don't think you'll need to change jumpers for the 5654 tubes as the amp ships with it set to use EF95 by default. The manual is basic but it is easy to understand if you read it carefully. Everything was labelled clearly on the PCB.


----------



## gulakpi

Yes!  You don't even need the manual as the PCB is clearly labelled.  
 Don't forget to repeat the process for both (left and right) channels if you ever need to change the jumpers!
 If you will be replacing the EF95 stock tubes with 5654, no need to touch the jumpers! Enjoy!


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

msknight said:


> OK - I've dropped on an LD I+ - I've been reading and watching some reviews and a common complaint is that the manual is not easy to read.
> 
> *My main concern is that I need to alter jumpers for the 5654 valves that I've already got*. Can anyone offer any advice please? Are there clearer instructions anywhere?
> 
> ...


 
*It depends on which version you bought.*
  
 If it's the 6J1 version then no worry.
  
 If it's the EF92 (6cq6) or WE408A then yes, you'd have to change the jumper. Press Ctrl + F when you're on the reader and find the word "jumper", that way you woundn't have to go through 182 pages.
  
 On opamp, there's a slot on your Little Dot after you have removed the underboard (it's really really easy). 
  
 Actually, just remove the underboard of your I+ (by removing 4 screws, 2 on the forward panel, 2 on the back panel) and take a picture of the PCB. It'll be very easy to give you instructions from there.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

tadamn said:


> Some opinions after a long use of it?


 
 Hit page #181 and I've got a snippet of a review I'm writing on the I+ 


cannedwheat said:


> So I'm new to the tube amp business, so I'm not sure what would be good or not tube wise.  I have the opportunity to buy a pair of 1945 Western electric 6AK5 tubes, and im not sure it would be worth it would they be decent? I would appreciate any and all help.
> 
> 
> Thanks


 
 I have not tried those but I think they should be OK, considering it's WE and all.


----------



## msknight

Thanks folks for the advice so far.
  
 I've been reading and have my Philips and Telefunken tubes (ordered some more to replace the ones that got blasted with the Little Bear problems) and also some Mullard EF91/6064... so I'm assuming that I don't need to change the jumpers for those, either.
  
 What are my options for the OpAmp please? I'm getting thoroughly lost with the choices. Preference is vocal and brass. Target phones are Senn 600 and DT 990 Pro


----------



## richie60

You may like it stock. The good choices seem to be the MUSES01/02 8820 8920, OPA2107. Just pick one and try it just like tubes, you'll settle on one you like the sound of.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Try tube rolling first. It's more effective than opamp rolling


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

I just posted my full review on the Little Dot I+ here:
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/little-dot-i/reviews/16449
  
 Hope it helps people who are looking for a cheap hybrid tube amp 
  
 Cheers


----------



## Sdmark

drofeel71 said:


> The extenders finally arrived, lucky I ordered 2 as I clumsily managed to break a connection on the first installation, too eager to hear the V5. Straight away I can hear a difference between this opamp and my Muses02.
> First impression is of greater detail retrieval, tighter and more refined bass and a more 3D soundstage. This admittedly is after a very short listen using well known tracks to me. Waiting to see if this will change after a period of burn in.




I realize your last post in this thread was a few months ago but I wondered if you had any pics of the Burson extender and op amp in their final positions. Also, what are your impressions of the Burson V5-OPA-D now that you've had a chance to listen for an extended period?

Thx in advance.


----------



## Achel

Hi, this is my first post. I received 2 weeks ago my Little Dot I+ in replacement of an old Fatman ITube MKI. I started tube Rolling with Mullard M8100 and just after them Mullard 8161 and Voskhod 6J1 (the best for me, i receives original pairs from 1952 to 1985 NOS coming from somebody that have worked at the factory from 1950 to 1985).
  
 I'm waiting for different op amp : bb OPA627AP, BB OPA2107PA, OPA2228AP and LT1364CN8. For French ones, I have published a review on my website http://www.pleasureblog.net/little-dot-i/ That's really a real nice tube headphone amp !
  
 I hope also modify my Grado SR80 in future weeks to enhance my listening experience with this marvelous amp.


----------



## Achel

Received today the burr brown OPA2228AP ... don't like the sound of it, too bassy, I have the bad impression of listening mp3 128kbps at the place of a 320kbps ... and it was with Voskhod 6J1. The sound is damped.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

I think a safe first stop would be the opa2107. Then you can move up to HDAM, muses02 and other solid mid-level opamp. At the end of the spectrum, there're the burson v5 ss and the sparko ss3602


----------



## Achel

I just receive today the Brown Dog to use the two 627 and receive also the LT1364CN8, that's really nice opa's ... they are pretty close but I prefer the two 627 on the adaptor (more space in the sound). Also receive my HRT Music Streamer II ... and it change a lot of things ! I'm still waiting for the 2107 but really though to jump directly to the Burson V5. I play musinc directly from my computer under Linux and this os let use the bit perfect output and it's really amazing ... no need of an equalizer.
  
 Wath is astonished me was the fact that using the DAC amplify differences between tubes ...


----------



## drofeel71

sdmark said:


> I realize your last post in this thread was a few months ago but I wondered if you had any pics of the Burson extender and op amp in their final positions. Also, what are your impressions of the Burson V5-OPA-D now that you've had a chance to listen for an extended period?
> Thx in advance.




Sorry for the late reply Sdmark. My initial impressions still stand. Immense detail retrieval, which really shows up bad mastering, tight and articulate bass with an almost 3D soundstage, great width to it with slightly less depth. It's really taken my Little dot to another level in my opinion, and I must say I prefer it over my Muses02 and Muses01.


----------



## Achel

nobody tried the Burson V5i in the little dot I+ ? cause the "i" version is smaller with the same sound.


----------



## peter123

achel said:


> nobody tried the Burson V5i in the little dot I+ ? cause the "i" version is smaller with the same sound.
> [CONTENTEMBED=/products/burson-audio-supreme-sound-opamp-v5i layout=block] [/CONTENTEMBED]




Soon, very soon


----------



## Achel

2 time cheaper, perfect shape to put it inside without extender ... it would be great if someone have tried . If it works I order one directly.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Got the V5i the other day actually. But right now it's inside my O2 in combination with the V5 SS. Will plugged it in the Little Dot soon but right now my K7xx sound so damn good with the O2.


----------



## Achel

Thks William glad to hear that it sound good. Hope it sound so good in the little dot, I'll wait to know if it's the same sound as her big brother the V5 SS.


----------



## Achel

I'm waiting for the Burson V5i directly from Australia ... Hope to receive it fastly , I take also a Sennheiser Momentum V1 hoping it'll be good with the little dot


----------



## peter123

achel said:


> I'm waiting for the Burson V5i directly from Australia ... Hope to receive it fastly , I take also a Sennheiser Momentum V1 hoping it'll be good with the little dot




Both my V5i and the extender for the V5 has arrived, unfortunately I haven't had time to listen anything to them. I can confirm that the original V5 fits in the LD I+ with the lid close when using the extender.


----------



## Achel

I normaly receive the v5i between the 9th and the 16th of this month so I'll can review it (but ill can't compare it with the V5SS cause don't have one . Hope it makes a big change with the two single 627 in the brown dog (which have already an amazing sound).


----------



## Achel

Just received the V5i ! it fits perfectly inside the little dot I+ and ... it's a tremendous slap in the face that send you in the strings ! Details and spatialisation and it's not burned yett (5 min that I have put it in). It runs with my Voskhod Gold Pin Military grade of 1967 and with the momentum Over Ear : really impressive !


----------



## m usicguy

Can you post which v5i fit your Little dot?  Model number?  I want to order one for my litte dot.  Thank you.
  
 musicguy


----------



## Achel

Hi this is this one : https://www.bursonaudio.com/products/supreme-sound-opamp-v5i/ in dual 
  
 Dual V5i x1


----------



## FrenchGuy

And how do you like it? Is the sound improvement worth the price ?


----------



## Achel

I was with two 627 Burson OPA on a brown dog just before to have it and the sound was quite good but with the sennheiser I needed to play with the equaliser and some Audacious plugin (I'm on Linux with a HRT dac and configured the bitperfect hability of my OS). With the V5i, I deactivated all plugin and the equaliser and have more space (than the spacializer plugin do), it's far more realistic, sharper (I like when it's sharp especialy for vocal parts in rock and opera, that's why I use Voskhod valves, like the Mullard for the rock but it's too smooth for me after 1 or 2 hours). You don't need to think twice where were the instrument in the scene...
  
 Personnaly, when I make a change I use the song Joline of Dolly Parton : here, the voice is sharp, the guitars from left and right are perfectly placed, bass are details, just perfect as I have it in my head. Another thing, I judged that some instrument are better dissociated and I can heard some sounds that I never heard before.
  
 That's my own experience and I just have it for two days, so it needs burnin but normaly it will be more accurate with time, but the best thing : it's twice cheaper than the original V5 and you can put it in very easily in the little dot.


----------



## FrenchGuy

achel said:


> I was with two 627 Burson OPA on a brown dog just before to have it and the sound was quite good but with the sennheiser I needed to play with the equaliser and some Audacious plugin (I'm on Linux with a HRT dac and configured the bitperfect hability of my OS). With the V5i, I deactivated all plugin and the equaliser and have more space (than the spacializer plugin do), it's far more realistic, sharper (I like when it's sharp especialy for vocal parts in rock and opera, that's why I use Voskhod valves, like the Mullard for the rock but it's too smooth for me after 1 or 2 hours). You don't need to think twice where were the instrument in the scene...
> 
> Personnaly, when I make a change I use the song Joline of Dolly Parton : here, the voice is sharp, the guitars from left and right are perfectly placed, bass are details, just perfect as I have it in my head. Another thing, I judged that some instrument are better dissociated and I can heard some sounds that I never heard before.
> 
> That's my own experience and I just have it for two days, so it needs burnin but normaly it will be more accurate with time, but the best thing : it's twice cheaper than the original V5 and you can put it in very easily in the little dot.


 
 OK, merci....


----------



## Achel

erf, merde, fallait direct poser la question en français, j'ai corrigé mon article sur le little dot sur mon site en parlant de la v5i si tu préfères :
  
 http://www.pleasureblog.net/little-dot-i/
  
 Je l'ai commandée auprès de Burson sur ebay, ca a pris juste 2 semaines et demie pour qu'elle arrive.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

achel said:


> I was with two 627 Burson OPA on a brown dog just before to have it and the sound was quite good but with the sennheiser I needed to play with the equaliser and some Audacious plugin (I'm on Linux with a HRT dac and configured the bitperfect hability of my OS). With the V5i, I deactivated all plugin and the equaliser and have more space (than the spacializer plugin do), it's far more realistic, sharper (I like when it's sharp especialy for vocal parts in rock and opera, that's why I use Voskhod valves, like the Mullard for the rock but it's too smooth for me after 1 or 2 hours). You don't need to think twice where were the instrument in the scene...
> 
> Personnaly, when I make a change I use the song Joline of Dolly Parton : here, the voice is sharp, the guitars from left and right are perfectly placed, bass are details, just perfect as I have it in my head. Another thing, I judged that some instrument are better dissociated and I can heard some sounds that I never heard before.
> 
> That's my own experience and I just have it for two days, so it needs burnin but normaly it will be more accurate with time, but the best thing : it's twice cheaper than the original V5 and you can put it in very easily in the little dot.


my initial impression is the same as yours, Achel. I intend to review the v5i in details but haven't got the time yet


----------



## Achel

I Think I'll stay with this opamp and I"ll don't even try SPARKO SS3602D, DEXA DX2010 or SONIC IMAGERY 994EnH-Ticha ... except if smdy have tested all of them and said that there is one really better than the V5 ...


----------



## Achel

I just buy a new solder to repair my Grado SR80 and my old AKG K141 and tested with 627OPA and the V5i ... The AKG have really huge details !!! and wath to say for the Grado : glue them to my ears !!!!! wath a sound with the burson ... I think that, for the grado and the akg wich are really sharp, I"ll replace the Voskhod by my Mullard CV4015 or 8101 ... just to have more bass.
  
 The v5i is really tremendous !
  
 Update : With the grado, absolutely Mullard 8161 ! just ahve to say What ! On no Woman no Cry, I Was in the public, in front stage !!!!! 
              With other headphones : Voskhod


----------



## peter123

My take on the Burson Audio V5i op amp for those who might be interested (with pictures of how in fit in the LD I+ in comparison to the original V5)::
  
http://www.head-fi.org/products/burson-audio-supreme-sound-opamp-v5i/reviews/16675


----------



## Achel

Thks for this review, now I want to test your little DAC


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## himynameiskiera

Are there any sonic differences between the various revisions of the circuit?


----------



## FrenchGuy

By the way, what are the different options to feed the Little Dot I+ in terms of audio source?
 Directly from a laptop thru its headphone jack, or an external DAC is necessary? In that case, which one do you guys use?


----------



## gibosi

It is very interesting to read about these Burson op amps. And I am curious... Has anyone compared them to the MUSES 02?


----------



## FrenchGuy

I've been reading about the Little dot I+ quite a lot recently.....I've even asked Amazon if they would price match the price from Massdrop....What I like in this amp is the ability to tweak it with other tubes and opamps
 But now i wonder if the Xduoo XD05 (DAC/AMP) might be a good option as well.....!!!


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## Achel

I use an HRT Music Streamer II V1 connected to my PC under Linux (without the DAC I have an annoying breath in the headphones), by the way, the dac improve the sound quality (I'm in bitperfect, only the P5 B&W need to use 0.6 of crystalizer plugin to sharpen the treble).


----------



## Arsis

I recently started using my LD I+ to drive my Mackie HR824 powered studio monitors. Wow! 
Here is my current signal chain:

Realistic LAB-2200 Turntable 
Linear Tracking, Direct Drive (1986)
Audio-Technica 311EP

Cambridge Audio 540P phono preamp

Little Dot I+
WE408A (NOS mid-50's), Burr-Brown OPA2107 

Mackie HR824


----------



## Achel

I have to try to chain my material ... hope it will be good : PC (all FLAC sources) => Deadbeef in Bitperfect conf => HRT DAC=> Beocenter 9600 (with an old Dual turntable plug in it) => little dot I+ => Headphones
  
 Actually I don't pass through the B&O and it's already astonishing


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## peter123

I use the DAC direct output from my Burson Audio V2+ to the LD I+, maybe a little over kill but it sounds pretty good


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## WilliamLeonhart

I think if you replace the volume pot and change to a somewhat more "audiophile" fuse, you're going to have a truly hi-end amp in the LD I+. I use the m9xx to feed my I+ and I don't think it's an overkill at all


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## Achel

It will be awesome if someone could tell wich part to replace with wich one and where to buy those part


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## Arsis

williamleonhart said:


> I think if you replace the volume pot and change to a somewhat more "audiophile" fuse, you're going to have a truly hi-end amp in the LD I+. I use the m9xx to feed my I+ and I don't think it's an overkill at all


I know it's a "thing" that I've heard of before but the notion of an "audiophile fuse" is asinine to me.


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## himynameiskiera

This is what my littledot looks like.


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## FrenchGuy

And how do you like it?
 Waiting for Massdrop to do another drop on that one...............


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## himynameiskiera

It made my sr80e's shine. With some new tubes, an  op amp, a volume knob and some new feet, it punches well above what it's price would have you believe. I think it's probably one of the best amps for low impedance cans.


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## FrenchGuy

Which tubes and op-amp are you finally using?
 When you say volume knob, have you changed the potentiometer? If yes, which one and where did you get it?
  
 Thanks


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## himynameiskiera

My favourite tubes which I'm using right now are the Mullard m8100, I think these are really great with some DSD files I have. I'm using the lt1364 currently but I'm looking to upgrade to something higher end. And I haven't changed the petentiometre at the moment. I just changed the knob for aesthetics.


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## WilliamLeonhart

achel said:


> It will be awesome if someone could tell wich part to replace with wich one and where to buy those part


 I'm still experimenting. Will tell soon 


arsis said:


> I know it's a "thing" that I've heard of before but the notion of an "audiophile fuse" is asinine to me.



Yeah I can say the same thing... Not a true believer yet. 
But *technically* as the fuse is in the electrical path it's very likely that it can change the sound. I can't say how much actually, though. 
You see, some people would spend hundreds bucks on electric cables and purifiers and stuffs like that. But the point here is that the Little Dot I+, cheap as it is, is quite a platform for improvement. Rolling tubes/opamp and lastly replacing the volume pot will drastically improve the sound. 
In my review on this amp which you can find in my signature, I mentioned that I stick with this one not because I can't afford anything more expensive but because it's the best for my headphone collection, which are mostly low-impedance. I believe someone would feel the same about it


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## Achel

I think little dot shoul'd sell parts to upgrade/mods (with instructions on how to do it) or give a list of wath shoul'd be the best parts to replace in it and documentations with all the compliant parts (and affect of those parts on the sound).


----------



## Barndoor

Hi All,
  
 I'm fashionably late to the Little Dot party.
 Have fancied trying a tube amp for a while, but it never made it to the top of my list.
 Saw the I+ on offer earlier in the week, so thought I'd take a chance (after reading positive reviews on here) and give it a go.
  
 My current main home set up is:
 Sonos connect > Chord Mojo (via Optical) > Fostex TH-X00
 I felt that this combination could sometimes (to my ears) sound a little clinical (Mojo) and overly lively in the treble (TH-X00) for my tastes.
 Hence a tube amp could be an ideal fit for both of these issues.
  
 Was concerned (based on cost I suppose) that the LD would be a weak link in the system and result in a step backwards rather than forwards, but glad to say that this is not the case.
 The combination sounds beautiful, after very little burn in.
 I think this is the first time that I have ever added a new component and I've straight off listened to the music rather than trying to listen to/analyse the system/new component.
  
 Fingers crossed for improvements with more burn in, opamp and tube rolling. 
  
 Have read the first 50 pages of the thread so far and ordered the following:
 Tubes
 Voshkod 6JIP-EV/EZH1P-EV
 Mullard CV4014 / M8083
  
 Opamp
 National LM4562NA
 National LME49720NA
  
 Looking forwards to my LD journey.
 Will have to limit myself to reading 5 pages of the thread a day so that my wallet can keep up with the recommendations.


----------



## Achel

Hi Good to ear that it fits in your system. You may like the Voskhod if you like trebble but for the OPA, I think The Burson V5i is the best for this amp or two BB 667 on browndog if you want smthg smoother and warmer.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Agree on the V5i. In combination with Mullards or EI Yugos it would give a smoother, more musical sound for your THX00. I was quite pleasantly surprised driving my Mahogany with the I+ and V5. It's not V5i but they're pretty close


----------



## Barndoor

Thanks for the replies, I'll add the v5i to my list.
 I've been keeping a list of tubes and opamps as I've been reading the thread.
 Up to page 50 so far. (the v5 hasn't appeared on the thread as at that point).
  
 I see the LD as being a hifi journey for me rather than a destination, so happy to go through lots of combinations and experience what changes for the better of worse.
  
 I find this prospect really exciting. I've spent quite a lot of money on gear over the last year and have got to the point where I don't want to and can't really afford to push to the next level (i.e. £800+ headphones).
 I'm happy to spend £50 a month on the hobby (better than spending it on booze in my book!), so tube and opamp rolling fits this nicely.
  
 A couple of questions (apologies if these have been answered 100 times since page 50!)
  
 Is there any benefit in buying branded opamps over generic? A couple I've looked at on ebay have been really cheap for non-branded Chinese imports (i.e. 2 for £6) compared to say £10+ for Texas Instruments versions.
  
 Are gold pin versions of tubes seen as being a worthwhile improvement over the standard versions or generally not much in it? In my searches I have spotted the odd pair here and there (e.g. Mullard and Voshkod), so are perhaps not that common. Are they worth snapping up (if the £ premium isn't excessive) when I see them?
  
 Thanks.
 BD


----------



## rudra

the discrete opamps from NewClass D is also an option http://www.newclassd.com/


----------



## Achel

Not overkill for the price to put inside a little dot ? I suppose that's this one you want to say : http://www.newclassd.com/index.php?page=123&hv=1
  
 Another thing, here is my experiences of what is great for me (little dot I+ with OPA Burson V5i) and HRT Music Streamer II DAC all songs are in DSD, FLAC or 320kbps 44.1Khz mp3 minimum, all played in Bitperfect with Deadbeaf on a linux machine with real time kernel (except for B&w P5 and Mitchell & Johnson GL2, I play with Audacious for having the crystalizer plugin) :
  
 1. Grado SR80 + Mullard 5654 + LI (Low Impedance) (real synergy)
 2. Sennheiser Momentum Over-ear + Voskhod VE + LI
 3. AKG 141 Studio + Voskhod VE + LI
 4. GD Audio + Mullard 5654 + LI
 5. Mitchell & Johnson GL2 + Voskhod VE + LI (need to burn in for some hours more or crystalizer plugin +1.8 gain)
 6. Beyerdynamic DT770 600 ohms + Voskhod VE + HI
 7. Beyerdynamic DT880 600 ohms + Mullard 8161 + HI (real synergy) => the best combination ever for the moment (for my ears).
 8. Bower & Wilkins P5 V1 + Voskhod VE + LI (need crystalizer plugin +1.2 gain)
  
 That's all the best configurations I have made with what I have (waiting for another headphone amp to put between the dac and the little dot => Pro-Ject Head box 2 SE), an AKG K701, a Master Dynamic MH40


----------



## himynameiskiera

For that sort of money you'd be better off just getting something like the woo audio wa6. The cost of changing opamps and tubes won't come to the wa6's price, but the wa6 will be a substantial upgrade.


----------



## Achel

Yup, but on the other side, the wa6 is pure class A (logically pre-amp base if I don't make a mistake) and with no OPA, so you just can roll the valve (and they cost more than EF91/92/95). Don't forget the need of Good DAC too for both of them 
  
 But the link of the discret OPA  that rudra show is only 47$ and some more for the special series for the little dot form factor (DIP 8), the other one on the page he show are for high end and not dip 8 it seems (and I would like to test it, seems it could be better than Burson ... have to try in two or three monthes).


----------



## rudra

Sorry, I haven't tried them in the Little dot amps, but I have used the DEXA's in an EE minmax dac. I have heard good things about burson,  there are other options apart from the burson for people to try. Another company that does discrete opamps is http://sparkoslabs.com/discrete-op-amps/


----------



## JuCaSoMu

Hello there! I don't know if I should post this here but I'll do it anyway, correct me if it has to go somewhere else. I recently bought a Little Dot 1+ for my pair of Grados sr325is which I've loved so far. Just today, I got a pair of Voskhods but before putting them in, I was just giving the amp a go and I noticed that only the right channel is working. I checked the cables and after all I concluded that the problem is in the headphone jack of the amp. If I plug the HP all the way in, it sound only in the right channel, if I stick it out a bit it sounds only on the left side and if I do pull it further it sounds on both channels but with the slightest movement, it gives no sound at all. Is they a way to fix it?
 Something I forgot to mention is that when I try to turn the volume all the way down it doesn't goes silent, it's still playing music pretty loud and only goes higher when I turn it all the way up.
 I live in Costa Rica so for me to send the unit back is kind of impossible since I'll have to pay a lot of shipping. Do you have any idea of what's the problem and how can I fix it? 
 Thanks in advance!


----------



## Achel

Is it possible to put your Dexa in your little dot to test if the improvement is really high ?


----------



## rudra

achel said:


> Is it possible to put your Dexa in your little dot to test if the improvement is really high ?


 

 ^-^ if your question is directed towards me, sorry it is not possible to try the  DEXA in the LD MK VI+. The opamps in the VI+ are used of biasing the power tubes. They don't affect the sound in anyway.


----------



## Achel

Ok thinking that you have a LD I+. I see that you have an Audio GD Dac, are you happy of it (I look for one for some monthes) ?


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

achel said:


> Not overkill for the price to put inside a little dot ? I suppose that's this one you want to say : http://www.newclassd.com/index.php?page=123&hv=1
> 
> Another thing, here is my experiences of what is great for me (little dot I+ with OPA Burson V5i) and HRT Music Streamer II DAC all songs are in DSD, FLAC or 320kbps 44.1Khz mp3 minimum, all played in Bitperfect with Deadbeaf on a linux machine with real time kernel (except for B&w P5 and Mitchell & Johnson GL2, I play with Audacious for having the crystalizer plugin) :
> 
> ...


Do tell me how the Mh40 pairs with the LD! Also, did you find the I+ good enough for the high impedance Beyers?


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

jucasomu said:


> Hello there! I don't know if I should post this here but I'll do it anyway, correct me if it has to go somewhere else. I recently bought a Little Dot 1+ for my pair of Grados sr325is which I've loved so far. Just today, I got a pair of Voskhods but before putting them in, I was just giving the amp a go and I noticed that only the right channel is working. I checked the cables and after all I concluded that the problem is in the headphone jack of the amp. If I plug the HP all the way in, it sound only in the right channel, if I stick it out a bit it sounds only on the left side and if I do pull it further it sounds on both channels but with the slightest movement, it gives no sound at all. Is they a way to fix it?
> Something I forgot to mention is that when I try to turn the volume all the way down it doesn't goes silent, it's still playing music pretty loud and only goes higher when I turn it all the way up.
> I live in Costa Rica so for me to send the unit back is kind of impossible since I'll have to pay a lot of shipping. Do you have any idea of what's the problem and how can I fix it?
> Thanks in advance!


I've heard that the I+ is pretty easy to repair, so perhaps it's best you find a shop to do it for you


----------



## Achel

For the MH40 I'm waiting for some bids on different sites  but for the Beyerdynamics (DT770 and DT880 both 600 ohms) that's perfect : max for my ears at 3 o'clock (80% and it's for the DT880 wich is open, the 770 need less). The DT770 was bought to don't bother my wife when I listen at night 
  
 My preference go to the DT880, that's really the best headphone I have, it give me thrill on some songs and hope to find once a DT990 to compare.


----------



## RyokoZekem

Thanks so much for this thread to start. Its been a great help in choosing my first tube with my purchase of the Little Dot I+. I am very impressed by this amp.

 I'm am currently using the GE JAN 5654W tubes with stock opamp off a Auzentech Prelude 7.1 to play a wide range of music. I am using 598 HD Sennheisers to listen if that helps and the revision of the Little Dot is 4.0.

 I wasn't a believer in burn in of any sort until these tubes. At first they sounded amazing and not harsh to listen to. Then they started to sound worse like super bright and hard to listen to with muddy details and just today all that is gone with great sounding detail but its still fatiguing for some reason. There are probably less than 50 hours on them still but I am extremely impressed with the improvements with detail. However I am looking for a warmer and less fatiguing sound I think.

 I've looked at Mullards and they seem like the best bet for a warm detailed sound but I'm not sure to get. M8083, or M8100 or something else? I know nothing is good for all music but something non-fatiguing would be really nice.


----------



## frogmeat69

These Mullards are very nice, need to switch jumpers for the amp to accept EF91 tubes, http://www.ebay.com/itm/EF91-CV4014-MULLARD-NOS-MATCHED-PAIR-NEW-lot-2pcs-/152253214344?hash=item2372ffae88:g:FPUAAOSw2ENW8Z2g
  
 The M8100 are good tubes also.


----------



## RyokoZekem

frogmeat69 said:


> These Mullards are very nice, need to switch jumpers for the amp to accept EF91 tubes, http://www.ebay.com/itm/EF91-CV4014-MULLARD-NOS-MATCHED-PAIR-NEW-lot-2pcs-/152253214344?hash=item2372ffae88:g:FPUAAOSw2ENW8Z2g
> 
> The M8100 are good tubes also.


 

 Those look tall. Are they? They look really nice as well. Would these be good as well?

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-Date-Matched-Pair-Mullard-Gt-Britain-6HA5-6HM5-Vacuum-Tubes-/122140196287?hash=item1c701f7dbf:g:r2wAAOSwNyFWewW4

 If so I'll probably buy the one you linked as well as this.


----------



## frogmeat69

ryokozekem said:


> Those look tall. Are they? They look really nice as well. Would these be good as well?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-Date-Matched-Pair-Mullard-Gt-Britain-6HA5-6HM5-Vacuum-Tubes-/122140196287?hash=item1c701f7dbf:g:r2wAAOSwNyFWewW4
> 
> If so I'll probably buy the one you linked as well as this.


 

 Yeah, kinda tall, but not out of the ordinary.


----------



## Barndoor

Canadian Seller on eBay has Sylvania Gold Pin GB-408A currently listed. Selling in quads at C$199 (circa £119).

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SYLVANIA-GB-408A-GB-408A-GB408A-Tube-4-Pieces-NEW-/122164479063?hash=item1c71920457:g:tw0AAOSwZG9WkrJw

Bit pricey for me, might have been more tempted if pair rather than quad.


----------



## RyokoZekem

barndoor said:


> Canadian Seller on eBay has Sylvania Gold Pin GB-408A currently listed. Selling in quads at C$199 (circa £119).
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SYLVANIA-GB-408A-GB-408A-GB408A-Tube-4-Pieces-NEW-/122164479063?hash=item1c71920457:g:tw0AAOSwZG9WkrJw
> 
> Bit pricey for me, might have been more tempted if pair rather than quad.


 

 Way too expensive for my blood. There are some Gold Pin Sylvania 5654 GB up for $8.86 but I have no idea what they sound like. I decided to order a pair of El Yugoslavia for soundstage after considering what I really want but I'm thinking about picking up a pair of m8083s for a warmer sound some days. I'm really enjoying being able to personalize to my picky ears. I had to get ear tubes when I was a child and ever since then my ears hated treble but only some treble. My hearing range is okay, 20hz~15800hz about with some peaks in places that are weird and hurt for me.

 I tried the lm4562 in the Little Dot and it worsened the problem and also destroyed the soundstage so I switched over to LT1364 in my soundcard and the Amp. Maybe when I can afford it I'll get a OPA2107 for the Little Dot to round off that treble but the soundstage on the LT1364 is great. I was thinking maybe having the LT1364 on my soundcard and a OPA2107AP in the Little Dot would be a great combo with El Yugos or Mullard 8083s.


----------



## Barndoor

I was impressed by the warmth and soundstage when i first got my little dot, but found that i could hear distortions when tracks got busy and it really annoyed me. 

I then moved onto the lm4562 which was much cleaner, but added back the brightness that i'm trying to tame in my th-x00.

I then got OPA2107. Got a pair for £2 from China, before reading about fakes on here. Not saying that they are fake and not sure how to know. To me this opamp is not quite as bright as the lm4562. What struck me most is that it seems more precise/tighter. Soundstage is doesn't seem to wow me as much as when i first got the LD, but i'm not sure if that is just down to my brain burning in and being more used to a better soundstage.

I've switched too much around in too shorter time to be completely certain. Going to stick with the 2107 for a while and then perhaps revisit in a month or so.

That said i've also ordered some EI Yugoslavia. Currently been using Mullard CV4014.


----------



## RyokoZekem

barndoor said:


> I was impressed by the warmth and soundstage when i first got my little dot, but found that i could hear distortions when tracks got busy and it really annoyed me.
> 
> I then moved onto the lm4562 which was much cleaner, but added back the brightness that i'm trying to tame in my th-x00.
> 
> ...


 

 I had trouble with noise on my electrical line so I had to cut the ground off and use it that way. Also my LM4652 had noise in the left channel in my pc and in the little dot. Quite strange, I guess it died. So I replaced it also with a LT1364 to clean that up and the noise in the left channel is gone. I remember reading someone else also having problems in the left channel with the lm4562 and I'm guessing they have a particular way of failing as they age. My opamp chip was quite old. The sensitivity to the noise floor is both a plus and a downside in the short run. It really brings out that detail and the problems someone might have with their setup.

 Yeah I was also very impressed with the soundstage and taken by surprise by it. I mostly expected just a slight boost barely perceptible in soundstage. The detail is quite fun even during games, feels much more immersive. While I did get a little used to soundstage being expanded, I still am not used to easily hearing the details in music I've heard a hundred times. I think soundstage must be down to the recording a lot of the time because some songs will intermittently have soundstage. This amp in my opinion must simply allow the detail and the potential soundstage to exhibit itself.

 I don't know about the OPA2107 or how to spot a legitimate one. I ordered my LT1364CN8 x 2 from digikey just to be sure but who knows. I might of been able to get it cheaper than 14$ total. I just wasn't willing to risk it. The LT1364 actually added pretty much everything better than the stock to me. Although I hope the El Yugos I ordered make a even bigger difference and they live up to the hype vs my GE JAN 5654W. I did try the chinese tubes for awhile but they really weren't as nice.

 Does anyone know if using the High Gain setting on an HD598 a problem? It sounds better to me and more controlled.


----------



## Hansolo76

I'm sure this topic has been brought up before, so please excuse my repeat.
  
 I've had my Little Dot I+ since the beginning of June this year.  I've been pretty happy with it minus a few small quirks.
  
 As soon as I got it I did a bit of research on the modifications and ordered new parts for it immediately.  I replaced the stock tubes with a matched set of NOS Northern Electric NE-408A and bought a LM4562NA and a OPA2107APG4.
  
 So here is where the problem started.  The majority of reviews stated that the OPA2107 was the "best" sounding for most applications followed by the LM4562.  I did order both from Chinese sellers on eBay.  I've had no problems what so ever with the LM4562 or the stock MC33078 with noise minus little bit of noise from the power supplies from my PC which is normal from what I've read.  The problem I noticed immediately is that there was quite a bit of static in the left channel at low volumes with the first OPA2107.  I contacted the seller and had the OPAMP replaced and the replacements (ordered two since the gave me a great deal) both worked much better, but there is still a little bit of static that can clearly be heard at lower volumes on certain songs, but not all the time.  Any ideas what might be wrong?
  
 I am using an ASUS Xonar Essence STX II with Foobar 2000 for the source.  The files are FLAC 24/96 and I am connected with Monster Cable RCAs from the line out of the sound card to the inputs of the amp.  I am using Fostex T50RP with a DBV #3 mod if that matters.
  
 Like I've said earlier, there are no problems what so ever with the LM4562 or the MC33078.  I only hear the static when using the OPA2107.  The static is much quieter with the second set of replacements, but identical with either one.
  
 Any help would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Arvan

How does this amp work with low impedance headphones? 30 ish ohmes and 100-110 db?


----------



## HeatFan12

hansolo76 said:


> I'm sure this topic has been brought up before, so please excuse my repeat.
> 
> I've had my Little Dot I+ since the beginning of June this year.  I've been pretty happy with it minus a few small quirks.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Well, there really is no 'best'.  All in audio is subjective.  I have tried many combos and have stuck with the LT1364 & MC33078P respectively in two I+.  One is set for EF91 & EF92 tubes the other for 408A (6028).  Might not work for everyone but I like it.
  
 The static you are having is really the problem.  I don't use sound cards, only DACs to PCs.  What does your audio chain look like (headphones etc.)?  Have you tried another source?  When using an amp with a pc setup, it's always best to try another source first like a portable player.  That way you know when you plug into pc, if there is a prob, it's not the amp.
  
  

  
  
  
  


arvan said:


> How does this amp work with low impedance headphones? 30 ish ohmes and 100-110 db?


 
  
  
 Very well.


----------



## Hansolo76

Sorry I don't have any photos since I am at home and this is my office setup.
  
  
 Source: Custom Windows PC using Foobar 2000 and 24/96 FLAC music files.
  
 Output/DAC: ASUS Xonar Essence STX II sound card - http://www.head-fi.org/t/708756/asus-xonar-essence-stx-ii
  
 Signal Cable: Monster Cable shielded RCA cable with gold plated plugs, your average good quality interconnect cable
  
 Amp: Little Dot I+ v4.0 with OPA2107APG4 operational amplifier and NE-408A tubes
  
 Cans: Fostex T50RP with DBV #3 mod and V-MODA cable
  
  
 I can only hear the static on certain songs, not every song.  I always here in on those certain songs as well.  The static can only be heard at low to medium-low volumes.  I can also hear it on certain streamed songs too and always on the same songs in the same place.  I can only hear the static on the left side as well.
  
 The static is non-existent with the LM4562 and the MC33078 on the same songs.
  
 I have heard that there are "fake" OPA2107 being sold and I wonder if that is the case or if this is a common issue with this chip.
  
 Thanks in advance for your help.


----------



## HeatFan12

If there is no static with the other opamps then the culprit is the 2107.  You have a lot of characters after 2107.....(APG4).  If all three have static then maybe the source is the problem.  But if two opamps have no static and one does, it's the opamp (2107).  The LDI+ is a hybrid (tube and solid state) and usually no external noise probs.


----------



## RyokoZekem

I got my 6hm5's today in the mail the very first day they were expected to be here. I was quite surprised but happy. They sound much better even without any burn in. More detail, more bass, and more soundstage... I look forward to hearing how their sound signature matures as my brain adjusts and the tubes do their actual burn in.


----------



## Achel

To be honnest with you ... I think that the statics comme from your Xonar card ... try a real DAC (there is some really cheap and really good in second hand if you want to try like the HRT MUSIC STREAMER II or a Pro-Ject one or a Schiit). The 2017 is really a good OPA and it's a start one in high level (so you can ear noises because it is more sensitive, so you have to watch your sources and your hi-fi material chain). Sometimes, for a crisp OPA, you have to roll with warm tubes too.


----------



## Barndoor

ryokozekem said:


> I got my 6hm5's today in the mail the very first day they were expected to be here. I was quite surprised but happy. They sound much better even without any burn in. More detail, more bass, and more soundstage... I look forward to hearing how their sound signature matures as my brain adjusts and the tubes do their actual burn in.




EI Yugos? Mine arrived today as well. Also liking them. Differences to my Mullard CV4014 are very subtle and will need more than the few hours of listening I've put in so far.


----------



## RyokoZekem

Yeah they're El Yugos. I've been interested in buying the cv4014s but not sure I want to after buying these.


----------



## Barndoor

For me the biggest gain has been from changing the opamp to the 2107 and from my initial listen the difference between the Mullard and EI is small, so I'd say hold off on the Mullard for the moment.


----------



## RyokoZekem

A OPA2107 looks really appealing to me to put inside my little dot and just have my other LT1364 in my soundcard pushing the sound as naturally as possible before it gets colored. My only problem is getting a OPA2107AP is expensive at 20$ without shipping and I really don't know who to trust from Ebay. Other than that it sounds pretty much an ideal combo for me.

 On another note I forgot to clean the tips on the tubes and one tube wasn't happy about that. First for everything.


----------



## Hansolo76

I figured as much after a bit of testing, but I just wanted a second opinion as well.  Thanks HeatFan12 for your help.
  
 Does anyone know a place to get genuine OPA2107 at a good price?
  
 I am also thinking about looking into MUSE 01, MUSE 02, and Burson v5i opamps.  Any advice or suggestions on using or acquiring those?
  
 I am planning on putting one in my Little Dot I+ as well as a Xduoo XD-05 if it is really worth the price for those.
  
 Thank you in advance for all help and advice.  It is greatly appreciated. 
  
 P.S. I got my first headphone amp last December and I am already 3 amps, 2 DACs, and 3 pairs of cans in.  Plus 35 tubes and all appropriate interconnect cables.  If I hadn't sold an amp and a DAC already I think my wife would have strangled me by now


----------



## frogmeat69

ryokozekem said:


> A OPA2107 looks really appealing to me to put inside my little dot and just have my other LT1364 in my soundcard pushing the sound as naturally as possible before it gets colored. *My only problem is getting a OPA2107AP is expensive at 20$ without shipping and I really don't know who to trust from Ebay.* Other than that it sounds pretty much an ideal combo for me.
> 
> On another note I forgot to clean the tips on the tubes and one tube wasn't happy about that. First for everything.


 

 Get it from here,http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Texas-Instruments/OPA2107AP/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvtNjJQt4UgLd0UjFS%252bBnCWIevHBc0SQLk%3d
 Should have no worries about fakes. They have $4.99 economy shipping.
 Digikey.com has them for the same price, but a hair cheaper first class mail shipping.


----------



## RyokoZekem

frogmeat69 said:


> Get it from here,http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Texas-Instruments/OPA2107AP/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvtNjJQt4UgLd0UjFS%252bBnCWIevHBc0SQLk%3d
> Should have no worries about fakes. They have $4.99 economy shipping.
> Digikey.com has them for the same price, but a hair cheaper first class mail shipping.


 

 Oh awesome. Thank you so much!


----------



## Barndoor

Bit of a noob question!

Looking at the Burson v5i opamp. 
The Burson website has a long list of opamps that the v5i can directly replace. 
If the v5i is a compatable replacement for the LD I+ does this mean that all the Opamps that Burson list are also theoretically compatiable with the LD I+? Are there certain specifications that need to be matched? 

List:
AD823, AD823AN, AD8066, AD8620, AD712, AD827, C4570, JRC4556AD, JRC4580, JRC5532, JRC5532D, JRC5534, LF353, LM4562, LME49860, LM833N, MUSES8920, NE5532, NEC4520, NEC4570, NJM2068D, NJM2114, NJM2214D, NJM4558, NJM4558D, NJM4560, NJM5532, NJM4558P, OP275, OPA1612, OPA2277PA, OPA2132, OPA2134, OPA2604, JRC4558, RC4558D, RC4558P, TL052, TL072, MUSES01, MUSES02, MUSES8820, MUSES8920, MUSES8832, BA15532

I'm keen to roll some lower cost Opamps before I hit the higher cost ones such as Burson, Muses, Sparkos
The AD823 is the Opamp in my colorfly C4, so would be interested to try that in the I+ to see how they compare, but only if I am not risking damaging anything.


----------



## RyokoZekem

I'm not really well versed on opamps but there is an opamp thread. The only opamp that might actually damage your device is the one I'm using, the LT1364 because of DC offset that might overdrive the headphones (takes the 70ma to 90~) but I'm not real concerned about it. I'm sure any opamp has a particular setup it likes and dislikes.

 The Burson should work in the Little Dot I+. There is even a thread on another forum with someone using it. Although the tall version which is fully discrete apparently obstructs the bottom case a little without an extender to lay it off to the side. I'd go for the v5i if you don't want to use their extender attachment but I'd say its probably worth going the extra trouble for that better detail by going fully discrete.

 Edit: One of the 6HM5 El Yugos has a high pitch whine when just starting. I assume its a bad one, it didn't go away with cleaning the pins and I've narrowed it down to that tube. I suppose I'll just go ahead and order some Mullard 8083 6064s before it dies and get a OPA2107. I really don't want to spend a fortune but I guess that is how it goes.

 Edit2: I tried some Deoxit G100 on the pins on an off chance and it just seems to have improve the separation of sounds but the whine is still there with the Tube when warming up and it seems to have some flash when starting. Maybe related? It seems to mostly go away after warming up but occasionally whine again or have some low static that doesn't change with volume.


----------



## HeatFan12

hansolo76 said:


> I figured as much after a bit of testing, but I just wanted a second opinion as well.  Thanks HeatFan12 for your help.
> 
> Does anyone know a place to get genuine OPA2107 at a good price?
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Enjoy!!!


----------



## Hansolo76

First of all, I would like to say thanks for all the feedback and advice.
  
 Secondly, I'm sure like others here, I am impatient and sometimes weak willed and I already caved.
  
 Last night put in an order with Burson for two V5i opamps.  I decided that fooling around with low cost, cheap Chinese opamps was too much of a hassle and a waste of my time.  Since I was able to order direct from Burson and they were almost half the price of Sparkos, I thought that this would be the next logical step.  I hope that this was a good, solid decision and my level of enjoyment of music will take a big step in the right direction.
  
 Either way, if need be I can find solace in the new Beyerdynamic DT880 Premium 600 ohm editions that arrives tomorrow that I ordered to complete my Little Dot MK III...hopefully.


----------



## HeatFan12

ryokozekem said:


> I'm not really well versed on opamps but there is an opamp thread. The only opamp that might actually damage your device is the one I'm using, the *LT1364* because of DC offset that might overdrive the headphones (takes the 70ma to 90~) but I'm not real concerned about it. I'm sure any opamp has a particular setup it likes and dislikes.
> 
> >> Snip<<


 
  
  
 I have been using the LT1364 for 8+ years in one of my LDI+.  It has not damaged anything and sounds great paired with the 408A/6028 family of tubes.
  




  
  
  
  Quote:


hansolo76 said:


> First of all, I would like to say thanks for all the feedback and advice.
> 
> Secondly, I'm sure like others here, I am impatient and sometimes weak willed and I already caved.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Enjoy yourself with this amp.  Roll everything!!!  Butttt...rolling tubes and opamps at the same time has no constant, only two variables.  Stick with a set of tubes and roll opamps or stick with a set of opamps and roll tubes.  See what you like.  It takes time but well worth it.  Most expensive does not always mean better.  In this game, it's all about synergy and your audio chain (headphones, source, amp etc.).  One change alters everything.  Keep some constants and experiment.  Have fun!
  




  
 Tonight:
  
 LDI+ (Westinghouse 6028 tubes & LT1364 opamp) -> Grado RS1i -> iPod 5.5G -> Apple Lossless


----------



## RyokoZekem

heatfan12 said:


> I have been using the LT1364 for 8+ years in one of my LDI+.  It has not damaged anything and sounds great paired with the 408A/6028 family of tubes.


 
 Well that is a relief to me.


----------



## Barndoor

I've avoided it because of the concerns raised earlier in the thread, so will perhaps have to give it a go. I am really liking the level of detail from the 2107. Cymbals have a metallic sound to them, not just a tssss if that makes sense.


----------



## dbaker1981

So is opamp rolling basically just unplugging the old and putting the new in?


----------



## Hansolo76

dbaker1981 said:


> So is opamp rolling basically just unplugging the old and putting the new in?


 
  
 From what I've experienced so far, it is with a bit of finesse unplugging the old one trying not to bend the pins.
  
 There is more to it from what I'm getting as well.  Certain tubes sound better with certain opamps as well as certain opamps sound better with certain tubes.
  
 I have Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV, Mullard/RTC 5654, GE JAN 5654W, and Northern Electric NE-408A tubes (plus a couple of pairs of the stock Chinese 6J1 that came with my Little Dot I+, but I don't really count those) that all work with my Little Dot I+.  I have resigned myself to use the Northern Electric NE-408A in this unit strictly and using the others for my Little Dot MK III.  The MK III can't run the NE-408A and I currently have 7 matched NOS pairs.  I only have 1-2 matched pairs each of the others so I save them for the MK III.  Since that is my current situation, I am rolling opamps looking for the best sound to match those tubes.


----------



## peter123

Been rolling some tubes today with the Burson SS V5 op amp installed and this has been a lot of fun. 

For the first time I'm actually enjoying (and even prefers) the Mullard M8100. I've always found it too warm and overly smooth before but now paired with the SS V5 (mounted with the extender from Burson) and listening with the HE400i and SR325is it sounds just wonderful. Man, gotta love this LD I+ it's really a camelon able to adapt to pretty much any headphones. 

I use a DAC with tube output as well and I actually prefer the sound of this combo (with the SR325is and HE400i) even over the Burson Conductor V2+.... 

After getting the V2+ half a year ago I've sold all of my other dedicated desktop amplifiers except for the LD I+ and I'm really glad that I kept it. 

I'm lucky enough to have a lot of amp/dac combos in my possession so I can afford to use the I+ tuned for just one, or in this case two, headphones and use the rest with other sources that suits them better.


----------



## RyokoZekem

How much does good does getting a quality dac make? I am simply running off my Auzentech Prelude with a LT1364 Opamp in it. It gets bright easily no matter what OPAMP is in there. Is that the DAC doing that?


----------



## Hansolo76

ryokozekem said:


> How much does good does getting a quality dac make? I am simply running off my Auzentech Prelude with a LT1364 Opamp in it. It gets bright easily no matter what OPAMP is in there. Is that the DAC doing that?


 
  
 That's kind of a loaded question.  I'm sure you've heard it before, but like a chain your music will only sound as good as the weakest link.
  
 Certain DACs do sound better and have tonal differences than other DACs, but your source files make a huge difference as well.  If you are decoding 24/192 FLAC on a mediocre DAC it will sound infinitely better than low bitrate MP3s on a high end DAC.  Overall, the source files are what they are and the biggest difference that I have heard in DACs is the presence and accuracy of the music once decoded.
  
 As for rolling OPAMPs, I am fairly new to it and I have noticed that some OPAMPs can be super bright in my cans while others can be dark or warm.  When you say no matter what OPAMP, how many have you tried?  I've only tried three in my LIttle Dot I+ and they have all had a very different sound.  I am using a LM4562 which I feel is a little bright as well since the OPA2107 I have produces low levels of static because I'm pretty sure it is a fake.  If you ignore the static, it is warm and rich sounding with the NE-408A that I am running.  To me, both sound better than the stock MC33078.  I'm still waiting for my V5i to get here as well.
  
 If I had to guess the problem, it might be your cans.  I have a set of modded Fostex T50RP and after the first attempt, they were piercing to the point of pain.  I followed the mod instructions exactly and I thought my ears were going to bleed.  I ended up reducing the size of the treble reflectors by more than half and changed to angled pads and all was well.  No OPAMP could have taken the sting out of those.
  
 The other solution is that you could just use the OPAMP you like the most and EQ the highs.  I don't always use a PC for source so that was not an option for me.


----------



## RyokoZekem

Thanks for the reply. My source audio isn't that great (Youtube) but on my android playing the same files it sounds less like I'm being shouted at but less detail and soundstage. As for the opamps I've tried in the soundcard, the LM4652, the MC3308, both shouty, and the LT1364 which seems the best for the moment at giving a clean signal with all the midrange intact. I may just have to use the EQ but I dislike doing that for some reason, I don't know why.

 My cans are  Senn HD598s and I know they're not the best at representing low end and their treble can be harsh at times but I've been able to tame that before on different sources. I really enjoy that being near the stage effect but its a tough balance for me. I guess I just have to accept that if I want soundstage, treble is going to haunt me.


----------



## peter123

ryokozekem said:


> Thanks for the reply. My source audio isn't that great (Youtube) but on my android playing the same files it sounds less like I'm being shouted at but less detail and soundstage. As for the opamps I've tried in the soundcard, the LM4652, the MC3308, both shouty, and the LT1364 which seems the best for the moment at giving a clean signal with all the midrange intact. I may just have to use the EQ but I dislike doing that for some reason, I don't know why.
> 
> 
> My cans are  Senn HD598s and I know they're not the best at representing low end and their treble can be harsh at times but I've been able to tame that before on different sources. I really enjoy that being near the stage effect but its a tough balance for me. I guess I just have to accept that if I want soundstage, treble is going to haunt me.




I find the HD598 to be very smooth so I doubt they're the problem. 

In my experience a good (clean) dac is essential. It gives the signal that the amplifier will amplifie and if it's not good the end result will not be good. 

Since this is a LD I+ thread I assume you've got one, what op amp and tubes are you using in it?


----------



## Hansolo76

peter123 said:


> I find the HD598 to be very smooth so I doubt they're the problem.
> 
> In my experience a good (clean) dac is essential. It gives the signal that the amplifier will amplifie and if it's not good the end result will not be good.
> 
> Since this is a LD I+ thread I assume you've got one, what op amp and tubes are you using in it?


 
  
 Hmmm, I would agree as well.  I demoed a buddy's HD598 before I bought my Fostex and they sounded good to me too.
  
 24/96 FLAC > Asus Xonar Essence STX II > Little Dot I+ (Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV/MC33078) > Sennheiser HD598
  
 They were very smooth and open sounding, just not for work since I share an office


----------



## RyokoZekem

peter123 said:


> I find the HD598 to be very smooth so I doubt they're the problem.
> 
> In my experience a good (clean) dac is essential. It gives the signal that the amplifier will amplifie and if it's not good the end result will not be good.
> 
> Since this is a LD I+ thread I assume you've got one, what op amp and tubes are you using in it?


 

 I was using until today LT1364 and 6hm5 El Yugos with the Little Dot I+. Now I'm back to GE JAN 5654W's because one of the 6hm5s died. I've got 8083s on the way.


----------



## peter123

ryokozekem said:


> I was using until today LT1364 and 6hm5 El Yugos with the Little Dot I+. Now I'm back to GE JAN 5654W's because one of the 6hm5s died. I've got 8083s on the way.




Hmm, I'm not familiar with the LT1364 but apparently from that I can't really see any other reason for harsh sound than the source. 

Do you have any other source you could connect to the LD to see how it sounds?


----------



## RyokoZekem

Yes. I've tried it other sources and awkwardly even my android has a cleaner signal. So I may just have to get a external DAC for my pc.


----------



## peter123

ryokozekem said:


> Yes. I've tried it other sources and awkwardly even my android has a cleaner signal. So I may just have to get a external DAC for my pc.




Sounds as if that would be the best solution. Just to be clear, you don't have to spend a lot of money (imo of course) to get a good (non fatiguing) sounding DAC.


----------



## RyokoZekem

Would the 76$~ DAC from FiiO be okay or should I spend about 50$ more for the Schiit?


----------



## dbaker1981

ryokozekem said:


> Would the 76$~ DAC from FiiO be okay or should I spend about 50$ more for the Schiit?





If you can swing it I would definitely recommend the schiit over the fiio.


----------



## RyokoZekem

Alright I will do that. Thanks a lot.


----------



## Hansolo76

Can someone give me an opinion on 6HM5 EI Yugoslavia vs Western Electric WE-408A?
  
 Is there a difference in the tall and short variants of the 6HM5 EI Yugoslavia?
  
 Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but the proper setting for the 6HM5 EI Yugoslavia in the Little Dot I+ is the same as the EF95?
  
 Thanks again in advance.


----------



## RyokoZekem

6HM5 works in EF95 setting. Don't use the other jumper settings with 6HM5. As for the tall variant vs the small or vs WE-408A. Maybe someone else can help there. I've only used the tall variant.


----------



## gibosi

hansolo76 said:


> Is there a difference in the tall and short variants of the 6HM5 EI Yugoslavia?
> 
> Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but the proper setting for the 6HM5 EI Yugoslavia in the Little Dot I+ is the same as the EF95?


 
  
 To the best of my knowledge, EI did not manufacture a short version of this tube. But short versions were manufactured by other companies, including Siemens. I tried the short Siemens and didn't like it. On the other hand, tall versions by GE, Mullard, EI and Sylvania have been favorably reviewed in the main Little Dot tube rolling forum.
  
 And yes, the proper LD setting for the 6HM5 is EF95.


----------



## Hansolo76

hansolo76 said:


> Can someone give me an opinion on 6HM5 EI Yugoslavia vs Western Electric WE-408A?
> 
> Is there a difference in the tall and short variants of the 6HM5 EI Yugoslavia?
> 
> Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but the proper setting for the 6HM5 EI Yugoslavia in the Little Dot I+ is the same as the EF95?


 
  
 Thanks for the quick responses on the last two questions.
  
 As for the first question, have any of you guys had any personal experience with both tubes?
  
 FYI, I've already ordered two pairs of the 6HM5 EI Yugoslavia so I may just have to find out for myself.


----------



## Achel

I'm waiting for the long and short versions in some days (I command the two kind to test them, the long ones are noted platinum plates special serie), I'll post wath I feel when I have tested them.


----------



## Hansolo76

foobar2000 > Asus Xonar Essence STX II > Little Dot I+ (NE-408A - Burson V5i) > Fostex T50RP (DBV #3)
  
 First impressions of the Burson V5i:
  
 Worth every penny.
  
 The best I have ever heard my I+ sound so far.
  
 Highs have become softer, much less harsh, and easier to distinguish.
  
 Mids have now become very present and stand out clearly.  I hear new details in the songs I have been listening to for months now.
  
 Lows are solid and very clean.  The bass is strong with a noticeable impact.
  
 Definitely a good buy.  Would buy again anytime.  Can't wait to see how it will sound with the EI 6hm5 Yugoslavia that are on their way.


----------



## Achel

Just received my 6HM5 EI Yugoslavia short and tall version : the short one have the same sound than the Voskhod, it's sharp 
  
 the tall ones, but special edition platinum plates, sound darkly BUT there is more details ... need certainly 20 to 40h of burn, but those one are really superior in my opinion. Sound is wider than Mullard M8161 and 5654 and the Voskhod too : a really nice discover ! Even the DT880 vibrate with bass with those tube : you can feel them !
  
 I use a DT770 and grado SR80 fo the test and have the burson V5i inside the LDI+. Just listen UNKLE - Burn My Shadow, bass are present in the DT770 and give a serious kick and all the sparkling details of the song are tremendous (and totaly earable, not with my other tubes) !


----------



## RyokoZekem

These are the cv4014 6064 Mullards I received. I'm still burning them in but they sound great and smooth already. I'm still awaiting the replacements for my 6hm5s which seem to have killer soundstage but honestly when things got busy in games they'd muddle. These don't seem to have positioning problems at all in songs or games. The bass seems quite nice on these with my LT1364 and might borderline overkill for my ears but just barely. Really nicely complement my 598HD. I'll comment more via this post later when they've burned in for a few days at least.

 On another note while I was awaiting these I was using my 5654W GE JANs and they suddenly did a turn for the better at probably the 300hr mark. Sound stage just opened up like wild and brightness dropped and bass opened. I really have no idea why this would happen. I compared with the Chinese tubes and it wasn't my imagination.


----------



## Hansolo76

Does anybody know what this is?
  
 I ordered 4x Voskhod 6Ж1П-ЕВ off eBay once and this was in the package with them.  I've tried to find some info on the logo, but no luck.
  
 It's obviously the same style of tube, but I was wondering who made this?


----------



## Oskari

hansolo76 said:


> It's obviously the same style of tube, but I was wondering who made this?




October in Vinnytsia, Ukraine.


----------



## Hansolo76

oskari said:


> October in Vinnytsia, Ukraine.


 
  
 Took me a bit to find the info, but thanks 
  
 So, are Oktyabr 6Ж1П-ЕВ any good and if they are, is there a place I can get a second one to have a pair?


----------



## Oskari

Actually, I cannot find them. Are you sure of the type? Could it be 6Ж2П-ЕВ, for example?



 https://www.istok2.com/photo/469.jpg


----------



## RyokoZekem

Well the CV4014 are about the same quality but an entirely different flavor to my 6hm5s and my 5654Ws. They all got wide soundstage after burn in to me, but a different position almost and different highlights even with EQing... I'm not sure what I'll settle on or if I'll settle at all. On an interesting note I decided to take apart and clean my power supply unit to my pc. The noise on the dac is gone. I guess all that dust can do some bad things. Now I can use the full volume range on my Little Dot without noise. I do have a little channel imbalance but its so little that even a 1/100 adjustment to level is too much. Its more on the ratio of 0.5/100 less volume on the left channel (I don't know what that'd translate into in dB). I narrowed it down to the 3.5mm to phono cable. I guess I'll try and find a replacement for that because unfortunately it does bother me.

 On a another note, is it normal for CV4014s to be nosier than 6hm5s? I was under the impression that ef91s are in general quieter with being pentodes and all but the triode is sounding quieter noise level wise.


----------



## Hansolo76

oskari said:


> Actually, I cannot find them. Are you sure of the type? Could it be 6Ж2П-ЕВ, for example?


 
  

  
 I think you might be right.
  
 Now I want to know if they are compatible with the Little Dot I+ and MK III, if they are worth while, and where I can get another one to make a set if the answer to the first two question is yes?
  
 Thanks a lot for the info.


----------



## gibosi

In the 6Ж1П-ЕВ / 6AK5, the cathode (pin 2) and suppressor grid (pin 7) are tied together inside the tube. In the 6Ж2П-ЕВ / 6AS6, they are not. Since the LD expects pins 2 and 7 to be tied together, it will be necessary to strap them together in the socket. And perhaps the easiest way to accomplish this is to use the same wire mod as the 6AH6. Unless I am overlooking something, this _should_ work.


----------



## Oskari

hansolo76 said:


> where I can get another one




They don't seem difficult to get. See, e.g., http://tubes-store.com/product_info.php?products_id=1082. You can find them on ebay, too.


----------



## twonline

Hi,
  
 Is this tube a good replacement for the stock tubes in the Little Dot I+?
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/M8100-CV4010-5654-MULLARD-VINTAGE-MATCHED-PAIR-VALVE-TUBES-RING-GETTER-/311525214708?hash=item48885989f4:g:C9UAAOSwm8VUtP82


----------



## Hansolo76

twonline said:


> Hi,
> 
> Is this tube a good replacement for the stock tubes in the Little Dot I+?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/M8100-CV4010-5654-MULLARD-VINTAGE-MATCHED-PAIR-VALVE-TUBES-RING-GETTER-/311525214708?hash=item48885989f4:g:C9UAAOSwm8VUtP82


 
  
 It really depends on a combination of your cans, genre, and personal tastes.
  
 With a little searching on this site, you should be able to get solid opinions from people with many combinations of different cans on specific tubes and genres.
  
 I have no personal experience with these tubes, but I have had good results with the Voskhod 6Ж1П-EB and the Western Electric WE-408A.
  
 Have you rolled your OP AMP as well? They can make a huge difference too.  I use a Burson V5i in my I+.


----------



## twonline

hansolo76 said:


> It really depends on a combination of your cans, genre, and personal tastes.
> 
> With a little searching on this site, you should be able to get solid opinions from people with many combinations of different cans on specific tubes and genres.
> 
> ...


 
 I still haven't received the AMP (just bought it from Massdrop). But read that stock tubes come with these are s**t.
 I will be using these with my AKG K7XX and in future with HD6XX. Mostly listening to Rock, Metal, and J-POP.
  
 Heard that these tubes are very good for tube amp starters.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

As a longtime user of the LD I+, I think the first thing any new owner should do is order a pair of EI Yugoslavia 6hm5 and a Burson v5i. Practically all my friends who have tried that combo liked it.


----------



## Achel

same for me than WilliamLeonhart


----------



## Hansolo76

williamleonhart said:


> As a longtime user of the LD I+, I think the first thing any new owner should do is order a pair of EI Yugoslavia 6hm5 and a Burson v5i. Practically all my friends who have tried that combo liked it.


 
  
 Do you have any opinions on the EI Yugoslavia 6hm5 versus the Western Electric WE-408A?  I strictly use the WE-408A in my I+ since I have 7 matched pairs and that is the only amp that I have that can run those tubes.  I only have 2 pairs of the EI Yugoslavia 6hm5 and use them in my MK III.


----------



## theHof

Is it important to have your tubes matched?  Some of the tubes I've been looking at are just sold as singles.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

hansolo76 said:


> Do you have any opinions on the EI Yugoslavia 6hm5 versus the Western Electric WE-408A?  I strictly use the WE-408A in my I+ since I have 7 matched pairs and that is the only amp that I have that can run those tubes.  I only have 2 pairs of the EI Yugoslavia 6hm5 and use them in my MK III.


 
 I've never tried the WE408A and it's not because I don't have access to it. I'm just too lazy to change the jumpers and I know I'd forget to change them some day.
 But I'm happy with my tubes, most of all the 6hm5. Because they're very cheap already.
  
  


thehof said:


> Is it important to have your tubes matched?  Some of the tubes I've been looking at are just sold as singles.


 
 It seems the general consensus around here is that it doesn't matter.


----------



## twonline

williamleonhart said:


> As a longtime user of the LD I+, I think the first thing any new owner should do is order a pair of EI Yugoslavia 6hm5 and a Burson v5i. Practically all my friends who have tried that combo liked it.


 
 Where can I buy Burson v5i? I already bought some EI Yugoslavia 6hm5 tubes.


----------



## peter123

twonline said:


> Where can I buy Burson v5i? I already bought some EI Yugoslavia 6hm5 tubes.




https://www.bursonaudio.com/products/supreme-sound-opamp-v5i/


----------



## Achel

they have a ebay shop


----------



## Hansolo76

peter123 said:


> https://www.bursonaudio.com/products/supreme-sound-opamp-v5i/




I ordered mine direct from Burson. I found no other place that had those in stock.


----------



## Hansolo76

peter123 said:


> https://www.bursonaudio.com/products/supreme-sound-opamp-v5i/




I ordered mine direct from Burson. I found no other place that had those in stock.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Ordering straight from Burson is the best route to go. Even for a country where shipping from oversea would typically be a pain in the as2 like mine (VN).


----------



## Taylor74

Hi
  
 I've just bought the Little Dot and gone for the Mullard M8100 tubes.  I'm currently using my Sony MDR 1R headphones with it (until my new Christmas present), my question is, I can only turn it up very very slightly before it gets too loud, I'm talking just beyond the 0 position.  I've opened the unit up to check the gain and it did appear to be set at high according to the instructions, however when I went to set it to low (according to instruction) it actually went even louder, so it suggests the switch is the wrong way round which isn't a problem.  Does anyone else find their unit only needs turning up so very little?
  
 Just to confirm it is set at what I believe to be low gain.


----------



## richie60

I think it's set to low gain by default from new. With my Grado's I don't normally turn it up past 1 on the dial before it's too loud for me.


----------



## Taylor74

Cheers for the reply Richie, was just a bit concerned as all the posts I'd read sounded like they had theirs turned all the way up.


----------



## boleiro

I'm the new guy... My LD I+ is in the mail.  I also ordered some EI 6HM5 tubes.  I wanted to verify what family this tube belongs to.  I've seen it mentioned as being an EF95 and also an EF86... 
  
 Anyone know definitively which it is?  Mostly I am wondering how tI'll need to set the jumpers when I roll the tubes.  
  
 Thanks!


----------



## gibosi

boleiro said:


> I'm the new guy... My LD I+ is in the mail.  I also ordered some EI 6HM5 tubes.  I wanted to verify what family this tube belongs to.  I've seen it mentioned as being an EF95 and also an EF86...
> 
> Anyone know definitively which it is?  Mostly I am wondering how tI'll need to set the jumpers when I roll the tubes.
> 
> Thanks!


 
  
 Technically, it is not an EF95, it is an EC900. However, in the LD it is pin-compatible with the EF95, so that is the proper setting to use.


----------



## boleiro

much obliged gibosi!   
  
 I think the most damage to the wallet is done in the window of time a new toy is ordered to when you take delivery.  It is in this window where I am obsessed with researching accessories, mods, tips and tricks, etc. Once I have the item in hand, I usually calm down and just enjoy it.  Delivery can't happen soon enough!
  
 That being said... I'm looking for an op amp now.  I want to get my LD I+ as tubey as possible (I know it is not a true tube amp).  I am not really interested in critical listening.  I want pleasant highs thick syrupy mids and strong bass. Would still like detail and immersive soundstage, though, these are down the pecking order a little.   Which op amps are more in line with this request?
  
 So far, the main contender for a new op amp is the Muses02... really based on one post about it being very lush and open and not for those wanting a neutral, critical listening option.  True to your experience?
  
 I'm going to buy an op amp, can't be helped.  So help me make a good choice.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## gibosi

The Muses02 is the best opamp I tried. And yes, I found it rather warm, lush and tube-like. Recently, a number of folks here have purchased the Burson and believe it is the best. However, I have never heard the Burson, and to my knowledge, no one here has reported on how they compare.


----------



## peter123

boleiro said:


> much obliged gibosi!
> 
> I think the most damage to the wallet is done in the window of time a new toy is ordered to when you take delivery.  It is in this window where I am obsessed with researching accessories, mods, tips and tricks, etc. Once I have the item in hand, I usually calm down and just enjoy it.  Delivery can't happen soon enough!
> 
> ...




I've got both the Muses02 and Burson. I won't have time to do any comparison anytime soon but I did it for myself when I got the Burson and fwiw I'm using the Burson in my LD I+ ever since. The Muses02 was to warm and thick for me but this is just one guys opinion so as always ymmw....


----------



## boleiro

Thanks again gibosi, sounds great to me. And peter123, I'm not afraid of the warmth! Thanks for the info, helps. The only description on the burson I've seen outside of "sounds great" is that it's brighter. That always kind of scares me as I'm not into bright. I'll probably get the muses02 now since it seems the most appealing and after I've had a month or so to digest that, I'll get the burson and see for myself. 

Great info, thanks


----------



## peter123

boleiro said:


> Thanks again gibosi, sounds great to me. And peter123, I'm not afraid of the warmth! Thanks for the info, helps. The only description on the burson I've seen outside of "sounds great" is that it's brighter. That always kind of scares me as I'm not into bright. I'll probably get the muses02 now since it seems the most appealing and after I've had a month or so to digest that, I'll get the burson and see for myself.
> 
> Great info, thanks




No worries. The Burson is not bright per se but just in comparison. I'd actually rather say clear than bright. Since the LD I+ is also equipped with tubes that can also be used to tune the sound I'm sure either one will be great after some tube rolling. 

Good luck and enjoy the music


----------



## gibosi

peter123 said:


> No worries. The Burson is not bright per se but just in comparison. I'd actually rather say clear than bright. Since the LD I+ is also equipped with tubes that can also be used to tune the sound I'm sure either one will be great after some tube rolling.
> 
> Good luck and enjoy the music


 
  
 Were you able to compare the Burson to the MUSES01?


----------



## peter123

gibosi said:


> Were you able to compare the Burson to the MUSES01?




No I'm sorry, I don't have the 01 just 02, 8820 and 8920.


----------



## boleiro

Yes, I think it's safe to say that all of these options will be great sounding options... It's just which sounds best to you????? I like to change one thing at a time. So, I'll replace the tubes first with the 6HM5' that are in the mail. Then I'll try the mullard 8100 and see which floats my boat. Maybe an RCA 5654 black plate too. Then, when I've got the sound I want... I'll mess it all up by introducing the muses02 with each tube. So, I should get to the Burson in about 6 months! Maybe I'll just skip to the muses02 right off.


----------



## peter123

boleiro said:


> Yes, I think it's safe to say that all of these options will be great sounding options... It's just which sounds best to you????? I like to change one thing at a time. So, I'll replace the tubes first with the 6HM5' that are in the mail. Then I'll try the mullard 8100 and see which floats my boat. Maybe an RCA 5654 black plate too. Then, when I've got the sound I want... I'll mess it all up by introducing the muses02 with each tube. So, I should get to the Burson in about 6 months! Maybe I'll just skip to the muses02 right off.




Sounds as if you're having a lot of fun coming up


----------



## boleiro

This is how I deal with waiting for delivery... And these preamp tubes are so cheap! I'm used to buying power tubes in a matched quad for my guitar amps. That's hundreds of dollars for a quad compared to the $15 I just paid for a pair of nos EI 6HM5's.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

boleiro said:


> Yes, I think it's safe to say that all of these options will be great sounding options... It's just which sounds best to you????? I like to change one thing at a time. So, I'll replace the tubes first with the 6HM5' that are in the mail. Then I'll try the mullard 8100 and see which floats my boat. Maybe an RCA 5654 black plate too. Then, when I've got the sound I want... I'll mess it all up by introducing the muses02 with each tube. So, I should get to the Burson in about 6 months! Maybe I'll just skip to the muses02 right off.


Go straight to the Sparko or Burson! Much better than the muses


----------



## boleiro

better how?


----------



## boleiro

curse you williamleonhart... you got me looking at the Burson V5i now.  I was all set to order the Muses02.  So I've been reading up on the V5i reviews and sounds interesting.  Like always, you get some conflicting descriptions of the sound characteristics.  But the sound quality is not in question.  the price with shipping is basically the same between the Muses02 and the Burson. 
  
 Can anyone go through both op amps and let me know what I can expect on the sound characteristics of each.  I'm pulling the trigger on one by the end of the weekend.
  
 thank again.


----------



## boleiro

ok, so i just hooked up the LD I+ and listened to some tracks and it sounded great... except it seems that it's playing mono, only the left channel?  it sounded fine on the first few track I listened to, all modern stuff.  Then I put on The Velvet Underground, Pale Blue Eyes, and the lead guitar was missing, took me half way through the song before I realized.  There is sound coming out of the left and right drivers, but it thinking it's mono since older tracks that have vocals on one side only don't play, in this case the right channel.  
  
 I opened it up before per the manual to make sure it was set up correctly.  I had to move the gain to off since my grados are only 32ohms.  Didn't touch anything else, playing the stock tubes, so I left everything else a lone since it looked correct per the manual.  
  
 I did check to verify that it wasn't the cans by playing straight from the my phone to cans, all okay.  I made sure all interconnects are securely fastened in the correct position.  
  
 Anyone have a clue or ideas on whats up?


----------



## Achel

invert your tubes to watch if it's dont come from one of them (it's written in the manual)


----------



## twonline

Finally my Little Dot I+ amp arrived. Currently Testing it with EI 6HM5 and Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV. I think I like the EI more. Seems more tubey sounding to me.
 Thinking of upgrading the OPAMP with Burson V5i. What version should I buy V5i Dual or Single?


----------



## drofeel71

The dual version is what you need.


----------



## twonline

Thanks  @drofeel71
  
 Aside from that, I'm having a little concern, When I turn on the amp with EI tubes, the right tube glows with a very high intensity than the tube on the left, but settles down to same intensity levels after few seconds. Is this behavior normal?
  
 Video - https://goo.gl/photos/25oR7kjo5FGXZ1iw7


----------



## drofeel71

twonline said:


> Thanks  @drofeel71
> 
> I've had the same issue where one tube flashes brighter at start up, then they both settle to same brightness... I didn't concern myself as the sound was fine.
> How does yours sound?
> ...


----------



## twonline

drofeel71 said:


>


 
 Sound is okay, with both channel volumes are matched. But I have to turn volume to around 50% (in high gain setting) to get reasonable listening levels with my AKG K7XX.


----------



## drofeel71

twonline said:


> Sound is okay, with both channel volumes are matched. But I have to turn volume to around 50% (in high gain setting) to get reasonable listening levels with my AKG K7XX.




I run the same tube and opamp configuration as you through my AKG K550 at low gain, and volume level gets above normal listening levels at around 12 o'clock on the dial, but then they are only 32ohms, not sure about the K7XX. Ignoring how far you have to turn the volume knob, does it sound good to your ears?


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

The k7xx, while easier to drive than the q701 and the k701, is still an AKG. It's still quite hard to drive compared to Sennheisers or Beyers. Even though I like my I+ a lot, for my k7xx and q701 I would prefer the integrated amp on my DACs (idsd micro, m9xx, hugo etc.), which is not the case for my other headphones.


----------



## twonline

drofeel71 said:


> I run the same tube and opamp configuration as you through my AKG K550 at low gain, and volume level gets above normal listening levels at around 12 o'clock on the dial, but then they are only 32ohms, not sure about the K7XX. Ignoring how far you have to turn the volume knob, does it sound good to your ears?


 
 Sound is actually very good, after that I burned-in for sometime. But still for high dynamic range music I have to turn to around 2 o'clock (but in high gain). Maybe it is just that K7XX is just harder to drive.
  
  


williamleonhart said:


> The k7xx, while easier to drive than the q701 and the k701, is still an AKG. It's still quite hard to drive compared to Sennheisers or Beyers. Even though I like my I+ a lot, for my k7xx and q701 I would prefer the integrated amp on my DACs (idsd micro, m9xx, hugo etc.), which is not the case for my other headphones.


 
 Do you have a HD650? How does it drive through this? I actually bought this amp for my soon to arrive HD6XX.


----------



## dbaker1981

Hi I have a question. When I hook my little dot 1+ up to the computer and I'm watching TV every few seconds I get this like static in the right ear cup for just a second and get a digital sound in the background every few mins. Am I having a USB noise problem or would it be my tubes. Thanks for any help.


----------



## Achel

or the alim cable or too close to an electromagnetic field


----------



## Voyst

Hello everyone and happy new year !
  
 I am about to purchase this small amp in order to couple it to a Grado SR225i and a HD650 (it will mainly be for the HD650).
 To be honest I read some pages of the thread but don't have the courage to read all the 194 pages ...
  
 So I post this to ask if there is some kind of a consencus on the best tubes for this amp ?
 During my reading I understood 6HM5 were often advised, is this considered the best option ? And I understood the opamp should also be changed ? Is the Muse02 still the n°1 choice ?
  
 Thank you very much !


----------



## richie60

It'll be a match for the Grado, don't think the hd650 will sound at its best out of it. I know because I also own the hd650.

I went with the Mullard M8083 cv4014 blue glass tubes and changed the opamp for a Texas Instruments 2107.


----------



## Hansolo76

voyst said:


> Hello everyone and happy new year !
> 
> I am about to purchase this small amp in order to couple it to a Grado SR225i and a HD650 (it will mainly be for the HD650).
> To be honest I read some pages of the thread but don't have the courage to read all the 194 pages ...
> ...


 
  
 My 2 cents:
  
 I've run all my headphones from my LD I+ more than adequately, Obviously some better than others.  Due to the inherent nature of hybrid amps, lower impedance headphones will perform better as well as higher sensitivity headphones.  With that being said, I have had no problems driving my Beyerdynamic DT880 Premium 600Ω at low gain.
  
 As far as tubes, so far I have liked the EI Yugoslavia 6HM5 and Western Electric WE-408A the best followed by the Voskhod 6ZH1P-EV from what I've tried.  For OP AMPS I can say that the Burson V5i is the best out of what I've tried so far.  Feel free to look at my photo albums to see what gear I tested as of now.


----------



## Voyst

Thank you for your answers !
  
 Quote:


richie60 said:


> It'll be a match for the Grado, don't think the hd650 will sound at its best out of it. I know because I also own the hd650.


 
 Yes I know an hybrid is not the best match for the HD650. I was planning to go with an OTL amp (LDIII, Darkvoice 336SE, Bottlehead Crack), but I really don't like the design of the LDIII, and I missed the Darkvoice on Massdrop few weeks ago. I am still willing to acquire a DV 336 or BH Crack if it comes again on Massdrop.
  
 So for the LD 1+ I think I will try first the EI 6HM5 as they are the less expansive after the Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV and people seems to prefer them.
 For the op-amp I really hesitate as the cost rise quickly for a $105 amp :
 LM4562 (3€)
 OPA2107 (18,07€)
 MUSES01-02 ($41)
 Burson V5i ($55)


----------



## gibosi

voyst said:


> Yes I know an hybrid is not the best match for the HD650. I was planning to go with an OTL amp (LDIII, Darkvoice 336SE, Bottlehead Crack), but I really don't like the design of the LDIII, and I missed the Darkvoice on Massdrop few weeks ago. I am still willing to acquire a DV 336 or BH Crack if it comes again on Massdrop.


 
  
 Another OTL you might want to consider is the Feliks Audio Ellise:
  
 http://feliksaudio.pl/en/products.php


----------



## Voyst

gibosi said:


> Another OTL you might want to consider is the Feliks Audio Ellise:
> 
> http://feliksaudio.pl/en/products.php


 

 Hello gibosi,
  
 Thanks for the reference, it seems really good but it is way out of my budget  I am considering something more at $200 ($300 max)...
  
 ---EDIT---
  
 Oh I just saw the Espressivo model which is more affordable at $350. I might consider it indeed.


----------



## gibosi

voyst said:


> Hello gibosi,
> 
> Thanks for the reference, it seems really good but it is way out of my budget  I am considering something more at $200 ($300 max)...
> 
> ...


 
  
 And the fact that Feliks is in Poland makes shipping more attractive. A number of folks living in Europe find that the price advantage of the Crack, for example, is cancelled out by the cost of shipping. Anyway, having choices is always good.
  
 Cheers


----------



## Achel

Hi, i'd like to change the potentiometer of the LD I+ by another one (some people says that the soundstage and the sound is better). Does somebody have references of a good one to buy on the internet ... I'have read that CERMET (ceramic) are better than ALPS (and thinner) but I don't know what model take (number of pins to solder and ohms suitable for the LD I+)
  
 Many thks to those having informations 
  
 PS : If you have other references for other spare parts to change like capacitors or coax plug, it will be great to know wath is working on (exact references to buy it on internet easely) and wath is the best to buy to upgrade it.


----------



## Xicu

I'm currently looking at the drop for the Little Dot 1+, what is the difference in term of sound with the WE408 and 6CQ6 ? What would be the better choice if I'm mostly  listening to EDM, country and a bit of rock.


----------



## Barndoor

Haven't heard the two tubes you mentioned, but seem to remember from when I bought mine that the add on price for the tubes wasn't massively competitive.
 Have a look on ebay and see what the prices are.
  
 That said, the stock tube isn't great and the Western Electrical 408A is well respected.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

voyst said:


> gibosi said:
> 
> 
> > I am considering something more at $200 ($300 max)...


 
 With your budget a VINTAGE RECEIVER is another one to consider i like my HD650 with this SX-3700 all my tube Headphone amps are collecting dust.
 r.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

achel said:


> Hi, i'd like to change the potentiometer of the LD I+ by another one (some people says that the soundstage and the sound is better). Does somebody have references of a good one to buy on the internet ... I'have read that CERMET (ceramic) are better than ALPS (and thinner) but I don't know what model take (number of pins to solder and ohms suitable for the LD I+)
> 
> Many thks to those having informations
> 
> PS : If you have other references for other spare parts to change like capacitors or coax plug, it will be great to know wath is working on (exact references to buy it on internet easely) and wath is the best to buy to upgrade it.


 
 Changing the POT using the existing case would be difficult due to lack of space unless you can find a good quality POT same size like the original.I managed to changed the pot after i butchered mine(changed the case) i've used a generic POT leftover from my BH CRACK Build,The differenced in sound by changing the POT is a big step-up.


----------



## dbaker1981

Can you use ecc81 on the little dots?


----------



## gibosi

dbaker1981 said:


> Can you use ecc81 on the little dots?


 
  
 No. You cannot use any 9-pin double triode in the LD without considerable modifications....


----------



## dbaker1981

gibosi said:


> No. You cannot use any 9-pin double triode in the LD without considerable modifications....




Uggh. I'm looking for some natural sounding tubes for my LD 1+.


----------



## gibosi

dbaker1981 said:


> Uggh. I'm looking for some natural sounding tubes for my LD 1+.


 
  
 To my ears, the most natural tubes were the 6AQ6/6AT6/6AV6 series, the tall 6HM5 and the C3g.
  
 Interestingly, the 6AQ6 and 6AT6 equal one-half of a 12AT7 and the 6AV6 equals one-half of a 12AX7. To run these tubes in an LD, it is necessary to cut off pins 5 and 6 and use the EF91/92 setting.


----------



## deaffromtheguns

Just got a I+, swapped in a opa2134 and put in a set of GE JAN 5654W I had running in another amp. When I had it open I noticed what I think were caps with adjustment screws on them. Anyone know what they do?


----------



## twonline

Finally, Burson V5i arrived.
  
  

  
  

  
 I honestly didn't think it will make much difference. But holy **** it made a world of difference. Sound is much more transparent now.
  
 CEntrance DACport Slim > LD I+ (with Burson V5i + El 6HM5) > HD 6XX
  
 ********* love this setup.
  
 Thanks to everyone who helped to make these decisions.
  
 PS - Contrary to most comments, even LD I+ (with above modifications) being a hybrid powers HD6XX almost perfectly.


----------



## bogde

twonline said:


> PS - Contrary to most comments, even LD I+ (with above modifications) being a hybrid powers HD6XX almost perfectly.


 
 it's great to hear that! and thanks for the pictures.
  
 enjoy your setup!


----------



## Barndoor

What opamp have you changed from so therefore making your comparisons against? The stock one?
  
 I'm currently using LT1364 having gone through some of the cheaper available opamps
 Burson, Sparkos and Muses are perhaps on my list to try at some point this year


----------



## Barndoor

btw have been using Sylvania 6HM5 for the last few months. I found the EI to be quite microphonic.


----------



## twonline

barndoor said:


> What opamp have you changed from so therefore making your comparisons against? The stock one?
> 
> I'm currently using LT1364 having gone through some of the cheaper available opamps
> Burson, Sparkos and Muses are perhaps on my list to try at some point this year


 
  
 Yeah, Used LD I+ with the stock opamp. With V5i it seems like a veil was removed from the headphones. Didn't try any other opamps, but I'm perfectly happy with V5i.
  


> btw have been using Sylvania 6HM5 for the last few months. I found the EI to be quite microphonic.


 
  
 I didn't find El to be microphonic, it's bit on the warmer side but I like it that way for the tubey sound. In fact I like them more than *6ZH1P-EV *Rocket Logo.


----------



## frenchjay

Any one got suggestions for tubes for EDM / House / Techno? I just order a LD1, and I'm very excited to own my first tube amp! Does it also respond well to EQ'ing from separate DAC?


----------



## jleewachter

twonline said:


> PS - Contrary to most comments, even LD I+ (with above modifications) being a hybrid powers HD6XX almost perfectly.


 
  
 ^^ this. I'm currently using the I+ w/ the HD650, stock op amp & NE408A tubes & it powers them perfectly fine. Even on low gain, I can't go past 12:00 before being extremely loud. Plenty of power for these cans. People who say otherwise either haven't tried the combo, or they're trying to justify their $400+ OTL tube amp purchase.


----------



## Voyst

jleewachter said:


> ^^ this. I'm currently using the I+ w/ the HD650, stock op amp & NE408A tubes & it powers them perfectly fine. Even on low gain, I can't go past 12:00 before being extremely loud. Plenty of power for these cans. People who say otherwise either haven't tried the combo, or they're trying to justify their $400+ OTL tube amp purchase.




Well I have a Little Dot 1+, Muses02, EI 6HM5 on the go, and just picked up a Darkvoice 336i on massdrop (still have to order some replacement tubes for it). I will do the comparison to see and post here to tell you my findings  I kind a hope you are right and sell the DV after..


----------



## jleewachter

voyst said:


> Well I have a Little Dot 1+, Muses02, EI 6HM5 on the go, and just picked up a Darkvoice 336i on massdrop (still have to order some replacement tubes for it). I will do the comparison to see and post here to tell you my findings
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I'm not denying that the Darkvoice will likely sound a tad better. I'm just saying that people who claim the 1+ can in no way power the HD600/650 are simply wrong.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

For cans like the HD650 the Darkvoice will definitely sound better than the I+. But IME Darkvoice breaks down too often (i've seen at least 4 DV336 break down in use). If it were to me, I'd go for a mk3 which I think should be of the same price with the 336 on MD. Also, maintaining 2 sets of incompatible tubes would be too expensive for me, so LD all the way.


----------



## bogde

williamleonhart said:


> For cans like the HD650 the Darkvoice will definitely sound better than the I+. But IME Darkvoice breaks down too often (i've seen at least 4 DV336 break down in use). If it were to me, I'd go for a mk3 which I think should be of the same price with the 336 on MD. Also, maintaining 2 sets of incompatible tubes would be too expensive for me, so LD all the way.


 
 just wondering, aren't the tubes for the ld mk3 more expensive than those needed for the 336? first of all, four tubes are needed instead of two, and if you go for matched pairs than the price goes up quickly.


----------



## gibosi

bogde said:


> just wondering, aren't the tubes for the ld mk3 more expensive than those needed for the 336? first of all, four tubes are needed instead of two, and if you go for matched pairs than the price goes up quickly.


 
  
 In this case, it's not the number of tubes that matters...  The DV uses 6SN7 and 6AS7. These are high demand tubes as they are used in many audio amps. The LD uses tubes that not commonly used by other audio amps, and therefore, the demand is low and they are much less expensive. 
  
 For example, you can get four of the best tubes available for the LD for a total of $50. Further, with the LD, paying extra for matched tubes is a waste of money. On the other hand, it's very easy to spend $100 to get "good" tubes for the DV, and some spend considerably more.


----------



## bogde

that's good to know, thanks for the details. without looking into this much I thought the price per tube was pretty much the same for both amps. thanks again!


----------



## ls13coco

twonline said:


> Finally, Burson V5i arrived.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Could you describe some of the differences further? I have a 1+ on the way as well as M8100 tubes, and my dac/other amp is the Creative X7 which I just ordered 2 single and 2 dual Sparkos op-amps for it. I don't want to spend that much again, though!
 Also as I haven't received mine yet, is it one single/dual op-amp? (going by your picture)


----------



## peter123

ls13coco said:


> Could you describe some of the differences further? I have a 1+ on the way as well as M8100 tubes, and my dac/other amp is the Creative X7 which I just ordered 2 single and 2 dual Sparkos op-amps for it. I don't want to spend that much again, though!
> Also as I haven't received mine yet, is it one single/dual op-amp? (going by your picture)


 
 You'll need one dual of the V5i's for the LD I+.


----------



## ls13coco

peter123 said:


> You'll need one dual of the V5i's for the LD I+.


 

 Thank you!
 I may actually try one from my X7 first, though. Seeing as the V5i is being used as a replacement by several people for the X7 op-amps, and I'm replacing the X7 op-amps (both single and both dual) I'll see if I can notice an improvement with one of the duals, since I might as well put them to use anyway.


----------



## trivium911

Does anyone have an opinion on how the little dot compares to the Vali 2? I've narrowed my purchase between one of the two for my hifiman 400i's. The tinkering and changing Op-amps appeals to me, but Schiit does an excellent job of marketing their product and explaining why the OP-Amps are not replaceable.


----------



## jleewachter

trivium911 said:


> Does anyone have an opinion on how the little dot compares to the Vali 2? I've narrowed my purchase between one of the two for my hifiman 400i's. The tinkering and changing Op-amps appeals to me, but Schiit does an excellent job of marketing their product and explaining why the OP-Amps are not replaceable.


 
  
 Using the HD650 as a reference, the Vali 2 seems to have more punch/power, but honestly, it's not as much of a difference as I expected. Don't get me wrong, the Vali 2 sounds great, I'm just having a hard time telling a difference. Plus, honestly, as much as I like the design of the Schiit & the fact that it's built in the US, I think the build quality on my Little Dot is a tad better & more refined. The stock tube on the Vali 2 was super difficult to get seated into the socket. I had to put a little more force into seating it than I felt comfortable doing, and as a result, it seems like the socket itself is a bit loose & wiggles when I try removing the tube. That's not a problem I've had with the little dot or any of the other tube amps I've had.


----------



## trivium911

jleewachter said:


> Using the HD650 as a reference, the Vali 2 seems to have more punch/power, but honestly, it's not as much of a difference as I expected. Don't get me wrong, the Vali 2 sounds great, I'm just having a hard time telling a difference. Plus, honestly, as much as I like the design of the Schiit & the fact that it's built in the US, I think the build quality on my Little Dot is a tad better & more refined. The stock tube on the Vali 2 was super difficult to get seated into the socket. I had to put a little more force into seating it than I felt comfortable doing, and as a result, it seems like the socket itself is a bit loose & wiggles when I try removing the tube. That's not a problem I've had with the little dot or any of the other tube amps I've had.




So which do you like better? Is there any benefit to the dual tubes vs the vali 2 single tube? Also the little dot i+ is quite a bit cheaper than the vali 2. Power is a non issue for me with the 400i, i bought them instead of the 650s since i already own the 598s and appreciate more sub bass so im not going to be buying a pair of open back for a long time.


----------



## jleewachter

trivium911 said:


> So which do you like better? Is there any benefit to the dual tubes vs the vali 2 single tube? Also the little dot i+ is quite a bit cheaper than the vali 2. Power is a non issue for me with the 400i, i bought them instead of the 650s since i already own the 598s and appreciate more sub bass so im not going to be buying a pair of open back for a long time.


 

 Need to do some more comparisons, but right now I think I prefer my little dot (and I'm not saying that just because I have one for sale 
  
 As far as single tube vs. dual, I honestly don't know enough about the science of that stuff to make an informed attempt at an answer. To me, it just seems like the little dot sounds more like a tube amp should, where the Vali doesn't seem to sound much different than most solid state amps I have.


----------



## twonline

ls13coco said:


> Could you describe some of the differences further? I have a 1+ on the way as well as M8100 tubes, and my dac/other amp is the Creative X7 which I just ordered 2 single and 2 dual Sparkos op-amps for it. I don't want to spend that much again, though!
> Also as I haven't received mine yet, is it one single/dual op-amp? (going by your picture)


 
  
 Differences I noticed between stock and V5i opamp,
 Unveiled sound from HD6XX
 More clarity/detailed sound
 Improved low end
 Somewhat better mid range (maybe placebo)
  
 Tubeness of the sound is not affected as far as I can hear
  
 As stated by @peter123 , you only need a single "Dual V5i" opamp.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

HD6XX is not VEILED.
  
 This is veiled


----------



## twonline

i luvmusic 2 said:


> HD6XX is not VEILED.
> 
> This is veiled


 
 Lol... But LD I+ with stock opamp, there is slight loss of high end freq.


----------



## trivium911

Does anyone know the output impedance of the Dot I+?


----------



## trivium911

jleewachter said:


> Need to do some more comparisons, but right now I think I prefer my little dot (and I'm not saying that just because I have one for sale
> 
> As far as single tube vs. dual, I honestly don't know enough about the science of that stuff to make an informed attempt at an answer. To me, it just seems like the little dot sounds more like a tube amp should, where the Vali doesn't seem to sound much different than most solid state amps I have.


 
 Why are you selling the little dot? just curious.


----------



## jleewachter

trivium911 said:


> Why are you selling the little dot? just curious.




Just looking for something smaller. I realize the little dot is already pretty small, but my desk space is extremely overcrowded.

I thought the Vali would be smaller, and it is; I'm just not sure I like the Vali all that much.


----------



## gregorya

trivium911 said:


> Does anyone know the output impedance of the Dot I+?




From the Little Dot listing on their eBay store:

Suitable Headphone Impedance: 
8 - 600 ohms 

Input Impedance: 
50K ohms 

Power Output: 
150mW @ 300 ohms 
300mW @ 120 ohms 
800mW @ 32 ohms


----------



## peter123

gregorya said:


> From the Little Dot listing on their eBay store:
> 
> Suitable Headphone Impedance:
> 8 - 600 ohms
> ...




The question was about output impedance which is not listed and is very hard to find. I've read 10Ohm somewhere but that's not from any official specs.


----------



## gregorya

peter123 said:


> The question was about output impedance which is not listed and is very hard to find. I've read 10Ohm somewhere but that's not from any official specs.




My apologies... did you try emailing them directly? David typically responds quickly.


----------



## Hansolo76

hansolo76 said:


> foobar2000 > Asus Xonar Essence STX II > Little Dot I+ (NE-408A - Burson V5i) > Fostex T50RP (DBV #3)
> 
> First impressions of the Burson V5i:
> 
> ...


 
  

  

  

  
 I would like to start with a big thanks to Charles from SS-Audio for the demo samples.
  
 So what I have done for this review is upgraded from a Burson V5i to Burson V5.  As you can tell from my review above, the V5i was a great improvement over stock and most other Op Amps that I have tried.
  
 The V5 is a definite improvement.  The clarity and detail have improved even more from the V5.  The mids have become richer and the detail is so much fuller.  There are so many more nuances that can be heard in the same music that I've been listening day to day.
  
 Bass - still strong and punchy and a bit more depth.
  
 Mids - fuller and more defined.  Voices and instruments stand out much clearer than before.
  
 Highs - soft yet crisp.  Not overwhelming and at a good level.  Very comfortable for long periods of time.
  
 Gear I tested:
  
 Custom PC > Xduoo XD-05 > Little Dot I+ (NE-408a - Burson V5) > Fostex T50RP DBV #3
  
 Overall thoughts:
  
 Once again a solid step up.  The improvements, while not tremendous, very noticeable and through out the full audio range.  New details and clarity while maintaining a very comfortable sound that is not fatiguing at all.  I would like to keep this in my Little Dot I+ since it is the amp I use at work and listen to the most, but the size is a factor.  If I had the extension kit this would be staying in there, but for now I think I would rather be able to close it.  Definitely worth the money if you are trying to get the most out of your gear.


----------



## trivium911

hansolo76 said:


> I would like to start with a big thanks to Charles from SS-Audio for the demo samples.
> 
> So what I have done for this review is upgraded from a Burson V5i to Burson V5.  As you can tell from my review above, the V5i was a great improvement over stock and most other Op Amps that I have tried.
> 
> ...


 
 You dont have to solder anything, just plug and play? Just bought the LD used with an upgraded OPA2107, would you say even the burson v5i would be worth the upgrade? Also which op Amp does the LD take, dual or single?


----------



## frogmeat69

You would need a dual op amp.


----------



## trivium911

frogmeat69 said:


> You would need a dual op amp.




Thanks, have not yet received the amp yet.


----------



## Hansolo76

trivium911 said:


> You dont have to solder anything, just plug and play? Just bought the LD used with an upgraded OPA2107, would you say even the burson v5i would be worth the upgrade? Also which op Amp does the LD take, dual or single?


 
  
 The LD has an 8 pin socket for the Op Amps.  The IC versions are kind of a pain to remove without the right tools.  You plug the V5 or V5i right in the socket.  You will need the included 8-pin DIP socket adapter that comes with the V5 for it to clear the other components.  The LD requires a dual version.
  
 What I've compared in order of preference:
  
 Burson V5
 Burson V5i
 OPA2107
 LM4562
 MC33078 (stock)
  
 Both Bursons are way above the rest and the V5 is definitely better than the V5i.


----------



## trivium911

Awesome, i just got to try out my new used little dot i+. Im having a difficult time trying to find out which tubes are better that it came with. Voskhod 6jip-ev or the ge jan5654. Ive heard really good things about the voskhod, i love them both but i cant pinpoint which is brighter, am i wrong in thinking the GE jan5654 is less bright because it seems that way to me. I cant switch the tubes out fast enough after turning off the device and all that to notice a big difference, maybe i need to try more tracks. They both sound great, i also have the HM5 tubes and not liking those, they sound a bit off like thin and lacking soundstage. I also have the w408s but have not had a chance to swap the internal jumper. Thanks for tue info on the burson v5i, this will be on my radar. Compared to my o2 with my 400i the LD sounds much more full and organic, i have some warmer cans the objective 2 will still work for though so i will probably still use it.


----------



## trivium911

Hi Guys i couldn't find a dedicated thread for the little dot that was not already dedicated to tube rolling. Im having a strange issue with my LD which i just realized yesterday plugging into my computer. I picked up a Sound card the Xonar D2 and plugged the little dot into the front channel (green). Im getting a buzzing/electronic noise coming out that is really annoying, it cant really be heard with music playing but it just makes the music sound less crisp, i've also tried to use the onboard audio with the same effect. Now i know what you are thinking but i already tried my Fiio X3ii with the USB pass through and the LD plugged into the line out and to my surprise is the same issue and EXACT same interference/noise. Once i unplug the USB from my fiio and leave the amp plugged in the noise goes away immediately. I've also tried my fiio on my laptop, and while the noise is still somewhat present...its not as bad as on my desktop.
  
 a few specs about my system
 GTX 970 Video card
 Skylake i56600K
 Gigabyte GA-170XP-SLI Motherboard
  
*So far i've tried the following:*
 Remove all hard drives
 Remove all overclock settings on my computer and rest CMOS/Bios. 
 Plug the LD into a different power outlet than computer
 Unplug everything except desktop and LD from the wall.
 remove wireless network card
 change around usb outlets (with Fiio)
 Tube rolling with both 6HM5 and The vskhod 6j1 tubes
  
  
 so far nothing above has fixed the issue, the amp sounds great straight out of my x3ii but the minute i plug it in for DAC the noise starts.I've read some threads about a screw that was not properly grounded, where if you touch the screw the noise will go away...well i tried this on all the exterior screws on the LD and the noise is still present. 
  
*A few Things left to try:*
 shielded 3.5mm to RCA cables. 
 Sheilded power cable for LD (do they make that?)
 Power conditioner/UPS for desktop or LD or both
  
  
  
  
  
 For reference my Objective 2 does not have this issue, but for some strange reason its now only working out of the right channel...so another issue i have to address at some point.


----------



## igotyofire

Does anyone know if the jumpers for J1/J1' are placed to enable the EF92 family will the default tubes 6J1/5654 family still drop back in. Or will those have to be removed again to default back ?


----------



## CHxJC

trivium911 said:


> Hi Guys i couldn't find a dedicated thread for the little dot that was not already dedicated to tube rolling. Im having a strange issue with my LD which i just realized yesterday plugging into my computer. I picked up a Sound card the Xonar D2 and plugged the little dot into the front channel (green). Im getting a buzzing/electronic noise coming out that is really annoying, it cant really be heard with music playing but it just makes the music sound less crisp, i've also tried to use the onboard audio with the same effect. Now i know what you are thinking but i already tried my Fiio X3ii with the USB pass through and the LD plugged into the line out and to my surprise is the same issue and EXACT same interference/noise. Once i unplug the USB from my fiio and leave the amp plugged in the noise goes away immediately. I've also tried my fiio on my laptop, and while the noise is still somewhat present...its not as bad as on my desktop.
> 
> a few specs about my system
> GTX 970 Video card
> ...




My guess there's a high possibility of a ground loop. Does it make any noises when your laptop is disconnected from the charger? My FiiO Q1 makes this weird ground loop hum when charging, but luckily I could just turn off the charging since it has an internal battery.


----------



## CHxJC

igotyofire said:


> Does anyone know if the jumpers for J1/J1' are placed to enable the EF92 family will the default tubes 6J1/5654 family still drop back in. Or will those have to be removed again to default back ?




You will need to remove the jumpers. Was changing tubes and accidentally plugged the wrong ones, it will make no sound until the jumpers are removed.


----------



## trivium911

Just a quick update i ended up building an isolation transformer which floats the ground on the secondary side and "isolates" safe power to the little dot completely removing any backgroud noise from the little dot. Now connected directly to my soundcard with the LD or my x3ii dac mode is completely silent. My fiio x3ii on the other hand connected to my laptop on battery mode still has noise...so this to me means the laptop is transferring noise that is different than a ground loop. Oh well i mostly just use my fiio x3ii built in amp anyways for my laptop...the man thing is my desktop is crystal clear with the LD which is the whole reason i bought it in the first place.


----------



## mrs1986

Hello Little Dot I+ community.
  
 I'm thinking on getting one of these amps for my desktop. 
  
 I have two questions, I have an AK Jr which i haven't received yet but i guess it will sound good enough for my work listening, but I guess I could use some better sound at home, so, do you think this will be a good source for the LD I+?? If not, what DAC could you recommend that is on the cheap side... as I'm already spending money on the LD...
  
 The second question is, how does this pair with the He400i with the stock tubes and OP amps??
  
 Thanks a lot!!


----------



## trivium911

mrs1986 said:


> Hello Little Dot I+ community.
> 
> I'm thinking on getting one of these amps for my desktop.
> 
> ...


 
 im sure it will be a fine DAC just be aware of the ground loop issue introducing noise into the signal since the LD has a transformer built into the chassis grounded to the wall which was fully present in my USB DAC or soundcard or anything out of my desktop. I have the LD with upgraded tubes and upgraded op amp. It pairs extremely well, tames the highs and gives texture to the sometimes unnatural decay and clarity that the 400i have at times. I dont think you will find alot of users here that have everything stock on the LD since the first thing they do is tube rolling and op amp rolling.  Your options for the ground loop noise which i can almost guarantee will be present as as follows:
  
 Humx eliminator (expensive and may not work)
 Cheap RCA ground loop isolators (Alters Sound)
 3 prong to 2 prong cheater plug (dangerous)
  
 or do what i did with an isolation transformer with a $20 transformer from digikey and some spare parts for the housing and plugs. That way you can ensure clean constant power to your LD and get rid of any noise that may be present.


----------



## mrs1986

trivium911 said:


> im sure it will be a fine DAC just be aware of the ground loop issue introducing noise into the signal since the LD has a transformer built into the chassis grounded to the wall which was fully present in my USB DAC or soundcard or anything out of my desktop. I have the LD with upgraded tubes and upgraded op amp. It pairs extremely well, tames the highs and gives texture to the sometimes unnatural decay and clarity that the 400i have at times. I dont think you will find alot of users here that have everything stock on the LD since the first thing they do is tube rolling and op amp rolling.  Your options for the ground loop noise which i can almost guarantee will be present as as follows:
> 
> Humx eliminator (expensive and may not work)
> Cheap RCA ground loop isolators (Alters Sound)
> ...


 
 Wow, super fast response!
  
 I'm sorry, but what is the ground loop issue? It will happen If I pair it with my AK Jr?? It won't happen if I use a desktop DAC?
  
 I'm not an electronic guy, I just code  so I have no idea how to do what you suggest me to do... :/


----------



## CHxJC

mrs1986 said:


> Wow, super fast response!
> 
> I'm sorry, but what is the ground loop issue? It will happen If I pair it with my AK Jr?? It won't happen if I use a desktop DAC?
> 
> I'm not an electronic guy, I just code  so I have no idea how to do what you suggest me to do... :/


 
 If you're planning on just listening directly from those AK jr, and not using it as an USB DAC (connected to a PC) you'll be fine. The issue is the little dot 1+ seems to not like being paired with USB DACs with internal batteries (No problem with my ODAC, but creates a I suspect a ground loop effect with my FiiO Q1 creating a humming sound). Disabling charging worked for me, and for *trivium911 *it worked by building an isolation transformer. 
  
 With that said, this doesn't mean that it'll happen to you. 
  
 The ground loop affect is basically the third "ground" pin on the plug interfering with other electronics that share this ground. A cheater plug is the easiest solution (basically makes it so that the third pin doesn't plug into the wall). The down side that it is dangerous. (Although I would argue if you live in a humid country cheater plugs aren't "that" dangerous. My parents used cheater plugs on heaters, hair dryers for decades and nothing happened...yet.)
  
 EDIT: Read your original post. To answer your question:
 1. The AK jr has USB DAC support (according to product page) and could be used as a DAC. It should be way better than any budget DAC judging from its price.
  
 2. For starters, leave the Opamp as it is and see if you want to upgrade it later down the road. The tube makes a way bigger difference to the sound. I definitely recommend upgrading the stock tubes, as they are pretty bad (especially the bass, absolutely no extension at all). I recommend reading this thread http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide, and start with a neutral-ish tube to begin with to get a taste how a good tube sounds like. After that, have fun finding the tube you like most! (Personal favourites are the Mullard M8161/CV4015). Keep in mind depending on the tube family, you might need to open up the case and plug in the 2 J1 jumper caps.


----------



## mrs1986

chxjc said:


> If you're planning on just listening directly from those AK jr, and not using it as an USB DAC (connected to a PC) you'll be fine. The issue is the little dot 1+ seems to not like being paired with USB DACs with internal batteries (No problem with my ODAC, but creates a I suspect a ground loop effect with my FiiO Q1 creating a humming sound). Disabling charging worked for me, and for *trivium911 *it worked by building an isolation transformer.
> 
> With that said, this doesn't mean that it'll happen to you.
> 
> ...




I see, how I'm supposed to plug the jr to pc and to the LD?? I guess it will be the same as using it as a source?? As I would need to use the headphone/line out of it...

I'm not from US, tube rolling would get pretry expensive fast :/ Is there any pair of tubes that are pretty "universal" and good enough for everyone??


----------



## CHxJC

mrs1986 said:


> I see, how I'm supposed to plug the jr to pc and to the LD?? I guess it will be the same as using it as a source?? As I would need to use the headphone/line out of it...
> 
> I'm not from US, tube rolling would get pretry expensive fast :/ Is there any pair of tubes that are pretty "universal" and good enough for everyone??


 
 It might be in your best interest to refer to the manual. I would guess connecting the USB port to the PC, and then switch some setting within the device. Since it only has 1 jack, I assume it will output from the headphone jack as usual. Simply use a 3.5mm to RCA line to connect the AK jr to the amps RCA inputs.
  
 Tube rolling is expensive even if your are in the US 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Generally the most recommended starters are the voshkod 6zh1p-ev, although I found them to be very EMI sensitive (They buzz from any electronic imaginable when coming near them, especially from my Apple pencil when I'm just trying to do my assignments). I bought mine from ebay shipped from Russia. They do take quite some time to ship though. Also make sure you buy a matched pair to ensure matched volume levels on both channels. Still, I highly recommend reading the tube rolling thread for impressions on different tubes as I don't know what type of sound signature you prefer.


----------



## mrs1986

chxjc said:


> It might be in your best interest to refer to the manual. I would guess connecting the USB port to the PC, and then switch some setting within the device. Since it only has 1 jack, I assume it will output from the headphone jack as usual. Simply use a 3.5mm to RCA line to connect the AK jr to the amps RCA inputs.
> 
> Tube rolling is expensive even if your are in the US  . Generally the most recommended starters are the voshkod 6zh1p-ev, although I found them to be very EMI sensitive (They buzz from any electronic imaginable when coming near them, especially from my Apple pencil when I'm just trying to do my assignments). I bought mine from ebay shipped from Russia. They do take quite some time to ship though. Also make sure you buy a matched pair to ensure matched volume levels on both channels. Still, I highly recommend reading the tube rolling thread for impressions on different tubes as I don't know what type of sound signature you prefer.




Thanks a lot for the advice! 

I will give a look at the thread and see what I can get, probably something available on amazon (i can buy here from outside us and use a forwarder to my country). 

Thanks again!!


----------



## CHxJC

mrs1986 said:


> Thanks a lot for the advice!
> 
> I will give a look at the thread and see what I can get, probably something available on amazon (i can buy here from outside us and use a forwarder to my country).
> 
> Thanks again!!


 
 NP!
  
 I wouldn't recommend Amazon, as they don't have much of a selection (mostly American brands). I do know that the JAN 5654W are available on Amazon for an acceptable price for a matched pair. I'd recommend finding a reputable tube seller for rare tubes, or wandering around ebay for more common NOS tubes. Many of them ship a tad bit slow, but are great value (especially the ones with lower price but free shipping). Just beware of scammers!


----------



## trivium911

mrs1986 said:


> Thanks a lot for the advice!
> 
> I will give a look at the thread and see what I can get, probably something available on amazon (i can buy here from outside us and use a forwarder to my country).
> 
> Thanks again!!




There is another option of buying one used, im in Canada and shipping on tubes and opamps can be expensive aswell. I bought my used on ebay who also happens to be a member here, i just put in his address and created the waybill on my fedex online account and emailed it over. If you do happen to get one used you get the benefit of it being broken in hopefully with a handful of tubes and upgraded op amps to get you started. Also the nice thing is the tubes are broken is aswell. You will need dual RCA male to 3.5mm male y cable to connect the LD to your device....preferably a sheilded cable assembly.


----------



## mrs1986

trivium911 said:


> There is another option of buying one used, im in Canada and shipping on tubes and opamps can be expensive aswell. I bought my used on ebay who also happens to be a member here, i just put in his address and created the waybill on my fedex online account and emailed it over. If you do happen to get one used you get the benefit of it being broken in hopefully with a handful of tubes and upgraded op amps to get you started. Also the nice thing is the tubes are broken is aswell. You will need dual RCA male to 3.5mm male y cable to connect the LD to your device....preferably a sheilded cable assembly.




Getting one used is a really nice idea, I guess I will start to look around in the sale forum and see if I can get a used one in good shape and hopefully with some tubes!


----------



## trivium911

@jleewachter
was selling one, you might want to check with him. I almost bought from him but he took to long to reply lol and thought it was sold.


----------



## ls13coco

Anyone have issues with gain?

 I almost immediately changed the stock tubes for the mullards, and later on as I turned it up I notice a constant hum that increased with volume. So, I then swapped out RCA cables, opened her up and put in a dual op-amp from my Creative X7 (using that as dac with Sparkos upgrades) and foud the gain switch was "on" according to the manual. Turned them off, tested and it got loud quick. Opened it up again, to switch back. Still gets very loud, and the hum starts at about 4 o'clock on both "gain" settings.

 I'm assuming the hum either is because these tubes have about an hour at most on them, or possibly I'm just in high gain all the time??

 Oh, and love the sound none the less! First tube experience and so glad I got the warm smooth mullards..


----------



## trivium911

ls13coco said:


> Anyone have issues with gain?
> 
> 
> I almost immediately changed the stock tubes for the mullards, and later on as I turned it up I notice a constant hum that increased with volume. So, I then swapped out RCA cables, opened her up and put in a dual op-amp from my Creative X7 (using that as dac with Sparkos upgrades) and foud the gain switch was "on" according to the manual. Turned them off, tested and it got loud quick. Opened it up again, to switch back. Still gets very loud, and the hum starts at about 4 o'clock on both "gain" settings.
> ...




What is your source?


----------



## ls13coco

trivium911 said:


> What is your source?


 

 Whoops, missed this.

 The Creative X7 with 4x Sparkos op-amps is my source.
 The hum/buzz seems to be getting better slowly, I notice I can continually turn the volume up higher without audio playing until I can start hearing it.

 I am still confused about my gain though.. really wish after all this time that LD did a slight revision, and put a gain switch on the outside.


----------



## trivium911

ls13coco said:


> Whoops, missed this.
> 
> 
> The Creative X7 with 4x Sparkos op-amps is my source.
> ...




Unplug the rcas from the liddle dot but leaving the power on. If it goes away you have a ground loop with your creative x7


----------



## ls13coco

trivium911 said:


> Unplug the rcas from the liddle dot but leaving the power on. If it goes away you have a ground loop with your creative x7




No RCA, volume can be maxed with no buzz. Thanks! Now to figure how to fix this.. The devices are several feet apart so I guess it won't be that easy.


----------



## trivium911

ls13coco said:


> No RCA, volume can be maxed with no buzz. Thanks! Now to figure how to fix this.. The devices are several feet apart so I guess it won't be that easy.




You can try a few things such as a sheilded power cable for your computer and a sheilded usb cable with the round magnet on the end that plugs into the creative x7 dac. If you can safely eliminate the need for grounding the little dot chassis than it will eliminate the problem, they make a device called a humx which is supposed to get rid of ground loops but it is pretty expensive. Do not use the cheater adapters which eliminate the ground to the wall as they are dangerous. You could also go the route i did and build a minature isolation transformer, which cost me around $20 cad and some spare parts i had lying around at work, you have to be comfortable working with 120v though and if you hook it up qrong you can get elctrocuted so something to be aware of. You can also purchase and isolation transformer but they are expensive and i was not able to find one that was small and compact which is why i built my own.

I was reading before i built my isolation transformer how a capacitor and a resistor can be soldering between the ground plug from the little dot and the chassis, so instead of ground going straight to the chassis it goes through the resitor and the capacitor first. I am not sure how safe that is and the guy who posted it never reaponded to my PM ( the post was very old). 

Laat but not least tou can buy inline ground loop isolators that just folter the noise out through the RCA connections. After spending alot of money on my amp, source and headphone i did not want to plug some cheap filter ground loop isolator in and potentially ruin the sound. I cannot say whether or not a difference can be noticed but i prefer to just have peace of mind and have nothing alter or filter the sound.


----------



## ls13coco

trivium911 said:


> You can try a few things such as a sheilded power cable for your computer and a sheilded usb cable with the round magnet on the end that plugs into the creative x7 dac. If you can safely eliminate the need for grounding the little dot chassis than it will eliminate the problem, they make a device called a humx which is supposed to get rid of ground loops but it is pretty expensive. Do not use the cheater adapters which eliminate the ground to the wall as they are dangerous. You could also go the route i did and build a minature isolation transformer, which cost me around $20 cad and some spare parts i had lying around at work, you have to be comfortable working with 120v though and if you hook it up qrong you can get elctrocuted so something to be aware of. You can also purchase and isolation transformer but they are expensive and i was not able to find one that was small and compact which is why i built my own.
> 
> I was reading before i built my isolation transformer how a capacitor and a resistor can be soldering between the ground plug from the little dot and the chassis, so instead of ground going straight to the chassis it goes through the resitor and the capacitor first. I am not sure how safe that is and the guy who posted it never reaponded to my PM ( the post was very old).
> 
> Laat but not least tou can buy inline ground loop isolators that just folter the noise out through the RCA connections. After spending alot of money on my amp, source and headphone i did not want to plug some cheap filter ground loop isolator in and potentially ruin the sound. I cannot say whether or not a difference can be noticed but i prefer to just have peace of mind and have nothing alter or filter the sound.


 

 Great info, thanks a lot!
 I will look into what you mentioned if my quick and easy route doesn't work out. I did some quick research on best RCA cables for the money (non-audiophile money) same as a ground loop isolator.

 I went with the Monoprice 106909 Four Channel Ground Loop Isolator  and Monoprice 102864 6-Feet Premium 2 RCA Plug to 2 RCA Plug 22AWG Cable, Black so hopefully that works out. If it alters the sound, I will mention that.

 Also, I just confirmed that my gain switched are in fact reversed on my LD. Oh well!


----------



## gregorya

ls13coco said:


> Also, I just confirmed that my gain switched are in fact reversed on my LD. Oh well!




What exactly do you mean by the gain switched are reversed? Thanks.


----------



## ls13coco

gregorya said:


> What exactly do you mean by the gain switched are reversed? Thanks.


 

 In the manual it shows high gain as both switches being to the "ON" marking, and I hear that these ship in low gain. Well, mine shipped in low gain.. but the switches were in the "ON" position.


----------



## fluffyberry

I just got this amp, and while I love being able to finally drive my AKGs properly, I have run into quite the issue with the amp producing a very loud humming sound. Thing is, as far as I can tell the humming is basically inaudible when I actually have music playing, but once it stops, the humming reaches volumes even louder than the music was being played at.
  
 I'm not sure what the cause is but the hum is present even when I unplugged the source, and only cuts out when i unplug the RCA cables themselves. So my question is am I looking at a case of ground loops or interference picked up by the cables? the hum did quieten (slightly) when i switched out the RCA cables for another set.
 Any help would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## ZJee

Buying this amp soon, can anyone tell me what the most musical/warm sounding tubes i could buy for this are? Thanks.


----------



## CHxJC

zjee said:


> Buying this amp soon, can anyone tell me what the most musical/warm sounding tubes i could buy for this are? Thanks.


 
 In my experience tubes like the Voskhod 6ZH1P-EV make it very "tubey", aka warm/smooth/musical but also stay on the neutral side, making it an amazing starter tube. After that, it all depends on your taste. I went back to the Mullard M8161/CV4015 after a month with the Voskhods as these are much less "tubey", less smooth but more detailed for the orchestra/instrumental music I listen to.


----------



## trivium911

fluffyberry said:


> I just got this amp, and while I love being able to finally drive my AKGs properly, I have run into quite the issue with the amp producing a very loud humming sound. Thing is, as far as I can tell the humming is basically inaudible when I actually have music playing, but once it stops, the humming reaches volumes even louder than the music was being played at.
> 
> I'm not sure what the cause is but the hum is present even when I unplugged the source, and only cuts out when i unplug the RCA cables themselves. So my question is am I looking at a case of ground loops or interference picked up by the cables? the hum did quieten (slightly) when i switched out the RCA cables for another set.
> Any help would be greatly appreciated!




Right well the cheapest way to elimate a ground loop would be a cheater adapter which allows you to plug in the ground plug with the nuetral and hot than on the other side into the wall its just nuetral and hot basically floating the ground. As you could imagine it can introduce a shock potential but for testing purposes it should be fine, i just would not run as your end solution as the shock potential is always there. After that i would see if you could access a UPS for testing as you could also have dirty power. Another option would be to try different outlets in your house. After that i would look at a sheilded power cable and sheilded rcas, cleaning your tube pins, trying different tubes and last would be warrenty/RMA. There is one other solution and that is to try higher impedence headphones. I have a pair of 5 balanced armeture iems with an impedence of 8 or 16ohm and 116db sensitivity maybe which is supposed to be acceptable for the little dot but they have static hissing and noise which is not audible with any of my full headphones...so basically your headphones could have a high sensitivity.


----------



## trivium911

chxjc said:


> In my experience tubes like the Voskhod 6ZH1P-EV make it very "tubey", aka warm/smooth/musical but also stay on the neutral side, making it an amazing starter tube. After that, it all depends on your taste. I went back to the Mullard M8161/CV4015 after a month with the Voskhods as these are much less "tubey", less smooth but more detailed for the orchestra/instrumental music I listen to.




Funny how everyone has different opinions. Most people say mullards are the tubey sounding with a warm smooth sound signature, i cant say from experience with the mullards as i still need to order them. Regarding the voskhods i found them slightly brighter and more clinical sounding than the 6hm5 tubes which i prefer for a more laid back sound with my 400is.


----------



## CHxJC

trivium911 said:


> Funny how everyone has different opinions. Most people say mullards are the tubey sounding with a warm smooth sound signature, i cant say from experience with the mullards as i still need to order them. Regarding the voskhods i found them slightly brighter and more clinical sounding than the 6hm5 tubes which i prefer for a more laid back sound with my 400is.


 
 I think the different combinations of setups also contribute to the factor of how each tube sounds to us. The Voskhods sound way smoother, with silky low mids making it sound very warm. While the Mullards do have a stronger mid-high bass, the treble clarity and detail on the M8161 in turn makes it seem way less than it should have been. In layman's term, it sounds more like my SS amp.


----------



## gulakpi

trivium911 said:


> Funny how everyone has different opinions. Most people say mullards are the tubey sounding with a warm smooth sound signature, i cant say from experience with the mullards as i still need to order them. Regarding the voskhods i found them slightly brighter and more clinical sounding than the 6hm5 tubes which i prefer for a more laid back sound with my 400is.


 
 I guess it depends on your other equipment, especially the headphones used.
 I too find the Voskhods too bright to my liking, and I can never call it tubey.  YMMV!  
 I prefer the M8100 and especially the 6HM5!  
 Fortunately, they are all very inexpensive and is fun to roll!


----------



## trivium911

gulakpi said:


> I guess it depends on your other equipment, especially the headphones used.
> I too find the Voskhods too bright to my liking, and I can never call it tubey.  YMMV!
> I prefer the M8100 and especially the 6HM5!
> 
> Fortunately, they are all very inexpensive and is fun to roll!




True it can add though. By far the most fun is exploring new music through the amp and finding which tubes sound the best to satisfy you, and perhaps even choosing genre specific tubes. Either of the mentioned tubes aswell as the GE JAN 5654 tubes are a great starting point.


----------



## ZJee

gulakpi said:


> I guess it depends on your other equipment, especially the headphones used.
> I too find the Voskhods too bright to my liking, and I can never call it tubey.  YMMV!
> I prefer the M8100 and especially the 6HM5!
> 
> Fortunately, they are all very inexpensive and is fun to roll!







trivium911 said:


> True it can add though. By far the most fun is exploring new music through the amp and finding which tubes sound the best to satisfy you, and perhaps even choosing genre specific tubes. Either of the mentioned tubes aswell as the GE JAN 5654 tubes are a great starting point.




What do you two think the most musical or "tubey" sounding tubes are, from your experience?


----------



## trivium911

zjee said:


> What do you two think the most musical or "tubey" sounding tubes are, from your experience?




Well as mentioned im really liking the 6hm5 tubes but any of the tubes mentioned are a great starting point since sound is subjective.


----------



## igotyofire

trivium911 said:


> Well as mentioned im really liking the 6hm5 tubes but any of the tubes mentioned are a great starting point since sound is subjective.


 
  
 I prefer the JAN 5654  seems overall to have more sonic synergy & balance to the entire frequency range to my ears. They both sound good though. Mine is paired with the V5i too.


----------



## CHxJC

igotyofire said:


> I prefer the JAN 5654  seems overall to have more sonic synergy & balance to the entire frequency range to my ears. They both sound good though. Mine is paired with the V5i too.


 
 Does the V5i make a big difference? I always wanted to change my OP-amp, but the price and shipping makes it hard for me to justify the upgrade.


----------



## gulakpi

zjee said:


> What do you two think the most musical or "tubey" sounding tubes are, from your experience?


 
 I like the 6HM5 best within the PnP tubes.  It gives a good balance between clarity, warmth and airiness (tubey) sound I like.
 The M8100 is actually more tubey, and a bit more bassy. I prefer the airiness of the 6HM5 though.
 The JAN 5654 are not bad at all.


----------



## ls13coco

trivium911 said:


> Well as mentioned im really liking the 6hm5 tubes but any of the tubes mentioned are a great starting point since sound is subjective.


 

 How would you compare the 6HM5 to the M8100? I have a few pairs of the M8100, should probably sell one and try something else too.

 Edit: Should have went to the last page, as you answered.


----------



## trivium911

ls13coco said:


> How would you compare the 6HM5 to the M8100? I have a few pairs of the M8100, should probably sell one and try something else too.
> 
> 
> Edit: Should have went to the last page, as you answered.




Hmm well dont have the m8100s, how much would you sell a set for?


----------



## ls13coco

trivium911 said:


> Hmm well dont have the m8100s, how much would you sell a set for?




Ooh probably in the realm of $30 usd all in, I'm in Canada and haven't shipped much more than RMA's before so not totally sure on shipping cost for such a small item, but that's me assuming shipping would be $10


----------



## trivium911

ls13coco said:


> Ooh probably in the realm of $30 usd all in, I'm in Canada and haven't shipped much more than RMA's before so not totally sure on shipping cost for such a small item, but that's me assuming shipping would be $10




Ill probably hold off for now, im selling off a few thing to save for a new video card for my computer.


----------



## ls13coco

trivium911 said:


> Ill probably hold off for now, im selling off a few thing to save for a new video card for my computer.



All good! I'm in no rush. Heck, maybe they will be worth something in several years.


----------



## CHxJC

My 6HM5 tubes just arrived, and it's not looking too good already.
  
 First, one of the tubes do not have the "flare up" glow when turned on. However, it does work so I'm not sure whether it's something I should be worried about. The other one that flares up however sounds slightly sharper in the highs (both have sharp highs). These tubes also ring very badly when accidentally touched, like ear piercing ringing.
  
 Initial impressions aren't that great, although they haven't had nearly enough time to burn in. While I have to agree on some tracks they have amazing airy soundstage, metal instruments (e.g. cymbals) sound extremely sparkly, other tracks just sound plain grainy. Vocals sounds not juicy at all, not intimate at all (both male and female). I read somewhere that these tubes require a bit of burn in, so I'll wait and see how it goes.
  
 TL;DR 6HM5 arrived, one doesn't have cool startup glow and worried if defective, initial sound impressions not too good.


----------



## Barndoor

I have EI 6hm5 that ring badly as well. I also got some Sylvania 6hm5 that don't have that problem. They've been in for the last few months and i've not felt the urge to roll them despite having many other tubes that haven't had a lot of listening time.

Had delivery of a Burson v5 today so looking forward to that going in the LD. Unfortunately they didn't send the extension lead so that it will lay flat inside the LD. Will have to place the ends of the LD on books and leave the base off until I get one i suppose.


----------



## CHxJC

barndoor said:


> I have EI 6hm5 that ring badly as well. I also got some Sylvania 6hm5 that don't have that problem. They've been in for the last few months and i've not felt the urge to roll them despite having many other tubes that haven't had a lot of listening time.
> 
> Had delivery of a Burson v5 today so looking forward to that going in the LD. Unfortunately they didn't send the extension lead so that it will lay flat inside the LD. Will have to place the ends of the LD on books and leave the base off until I get one i suppose.


 
 How do the Sylvania version compare to the El's? If they sound similar I might just get one of those and return my EI 6HM5. I can literally hear the ringing when volume exceeds a certain amount in songs (and it doesn't need to be loud). Whenever the piano has a heavy note it rings once, and gets annoying rather quick.


----------



## Barndoor

chxjc said:


> How do the Sylvania version compare to the El's? If they sound similar I might just get one of those and return my EI 6HM5. I can literally hear the ringing when volume exceeds a certain amount in songs (and it doesn't need to be loud). Whenever the piano has a heavy note it rings once, and gets annoying rather quick.



 


If I recall correctly, it's been a few months now, then sounded very similar and any differences were subtle.


----------



## lyncks

Hey
  
 Won a bid on ebay yesterday for a LD with standard tubes plus a pair of Mullards 8100.
  
 Should I get anything else to really match up K7xx?
  
 Cheers


----------



## ls13coco

lyncks said:


> Hey
> 
> Won a bid on ebay yesterday for a LD with standard tubes plus a pair of Mullards 8100.
> 
> ...




I have the LD1+ with the m8100 tubes as well, with a k712. Love it, it's my go to for music - I did swap op-amps though so that could be an option if you wanted to squeeze a little more out.


----------



## Arvan

Just ordered a 1+ and a matched pair of mullard m8100 tubes. First entry in the tube world and I'm excited!

From my understanding the m8100 is the same tube family as the stock 6j1 tubes? So I just swap them out?


----------



## CHxJC

arvan said:


> Just ordered a 1+ and a matched pair of mullard m8100 tubes. First entry in the tube world and I'm excited!
> 
> From my understanding the m8100 is the same tube family as the stock 6j1 tubes? So I just swap them out?




Yup, both are the E95 configuration if I am not mistaken.


----------



## Barndoor

chxjc said:


> Yup, both are the E95 configuration if I am not mistaken.



 



Yeap, agree.


----------



## Barndoor

Here are some notes I made on tube families when I first got my LD. Not pretty, but might help:

EF95
6JI, WE403A/B, M8100, CV4010, EF95, 6AK5
EF95/5654/CV4010/M8100/6096/403A/B/6J1 (Stock)
EF95 = 6AK5 = 6j1p = 6096 = 6F32V = 6F32 = 5654 = 6ZH1P = M8100= 403A
EF95 6J38P-EV, 6BE6* (6BE6W, EK90, 5750/5760?, CV4012), 6BY6* and 6CS6 (EH90), 6HM5, 6HA5, EC900
Miniature-7-Pin-Base RF miniature pentode, 6.3V heater

408A
6028
Miniatur-7-Pin-Base B7G, 20V, 50mA heater

EF92
(EF91 = 6AM6 = Z77 = 6F12 = 8D3 = N79 = CV138 = 6064 = M8083 = CV4014)
(EF92 = 6CQ6 = W77 = 6F21 = 9D6 = CV131 = 6065 = M8161 = CV4015) 
EF92 6BY6* (E91H, 5915, 6687 EH900S, EH960, EH91H), 6BE6*,6CB6, 6DK6, 6EW6, 6GM6, 6GY6, 6DT6
Miniature-7-Pin-Base B7G, 6.3V heater

*These are very unique tubes in that they can be used in either the EF95 setting or the EF92 setting. In the EF95 setting, the bass is stronger. In the EF92 setting, the frequency spectrum is shifted a bit more to the mids and treble.


----------



## Arvan

barndoor said:


> Here are some notes I made on tube families when I first got my LD. Not pretty, but might help:
> 
> EF95
> 6JI, WE403A/B, M8100, CV4010, EF95, 6AK5
> ...


 
 Thank you! Much appreciated!


----------



## gibosi

barndoor said:


> Here are some notes I made on tube families when I first got my LD. Not pretty, but might help:
> 
> EF95
> 6JI, WE403A/B, M8100, CV4010, EF95, 6AK5
> ...


 
  
 This is essentially a somewhat abbreviated version of a posting made several years ago by Acapella11:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/1140#post_9392055


----------



## i luvmusic 2

Speaking of Acapella11 is he still active?


----------



## Barndoor

Never got round to reading that thread, cobbled it together from bits and pieces on this one, but yeah that is much better


----------



## ZJee

I have the voskhods, M1800s, and 6HM5s. Now all i need is the actual amp to arrive.


----------



## Arvan

zjee said:


> I have the voskhods, M1800s, and 6HM5s. Now all i need is the actual amp to arrive.




I have the amp but no tubes...Let's go Mr postman!


----------



## ls13coco (Nov 6, 2017)

This isn't tube-related, but I just wanted to leave my op-amp upgrade impressions here seeing as this is the most active thread for the LD1+

 Little Dot 1+ op-amp upgrade with the Burson V5i
 Gear used
 Creative Soundblaster X7 as DAC with 2x Sparkos SS3601 single op-amps, 2x Sparkos SS3602 dual op-amps,  Hifiman HE400i, AKG K712 Pro, Fostex TH-x00 PH, Fidelio X2, Little Dot 1+ with Mullard M8100 tubes and of course the Burson V5i op-amp.

 Impressions
 The LD1+ was already using a different op-amp, the dual op-amp that I swapped out of the Creative X7 was being used which already made for a clear upgrade from stock. The X7 op-amp upgrade seemed to give the sound a more neutral signature, while also lowering the noise floor with the LD1+.
 Because of this, I wasn't expecting to have as noticable of an improvement with swapping in the Burson V5i, but I was happily mistaken.

 The differences aren't as large as swapping all for out of my X7, but they were immediate. The LD1+ is not by any means an expensive tube-amp (well, maybe to those who don't use these forums!) However, the sound didn't improve in one area - it was improved all around, while retaining the neutrality I noticed with the X7 op-amp upgrade.
 Details, transparency, cleanliness, soundstage, imaging, and a blacker background were all improvements I could notice on all of my headphones. Some more than others, such as the K712 Pro and HE400i seeing as these are harder to drive headphones I could only assume.

 The Fidelio X2 still had some background fuzz when the volumes were at pub-style band performance levels but this is a reasonably low impedance, easy to drive headphone.
 I'd also like to point out exactly what I mean by "cleanliness" because this was a very appreciated change.
 I like to EQ, some are are against this, I am not. For example: for the X2 or TH-x00 I will EQ in a little bit of mids, and I will EQ some low-end into all of my headphones.
 The LD1+ with the warm, buttery mullard M8100 tubes would become syrupy sounding while running high levels of bass (only as high as what the X7 as my amp would reproduce cleanly).

 Now with the V5i op-amp, the bass was no longer thick and syrupy sounding, so creds for this.
 Overall, this is an upgrade I could easily recommend if you are a owner of the Little Dot 1+ and want to go a little farther with your amp, without shelling out for a whole new tube amp.
 I have not used the V5 to compare, but the V5i having a smaller footprint is a positive in this case as closing the LD1+ with the backplate remains possible.


----------



## kamzak88

What are the tubes (+ oampy) good with sr325e?
  
6CQ6?
  
 naim: http://i64.tinypic.com/rvc095.jpg
  
 Connection LD+ under set?


----------



## Arvan

I just noticed that i have a slight ground hum on the left channel, it does however disappear when i touch the 1/4 plug connected to the headphone out. I tried various cables to isolate the issue but its still the same. I cant hear this with my Q701 or HD650s but with more sensitive cans this is more or less an issue depending on my mood  
  
 Probably a poorly run trace on the circuit board causing this or it might be the grounding on the jack itself. Il try swapping some tubes to see if that's the problem.
  
 EDIT:
  
 Rolled back to the Mullards 8100 and its dead quiet now...Liked the sound from the Voshkods unfortunatly, il try to clean them properly and try again.


----------



## Metafalls

Any one using v5i havin an issue of missing one of the channel after a long usage? It happened twice to me on b5i and nothing else


----------



## waflet

Hideeho
www.massdrop.com has the LD 1+ available again. I am probably going to get one. It will come with 6ji (base price) tubes or 6cq6 (+$13) or we408 (+$28). I am looking for a warmer sound for HiFiMan HE-400i’s. Not really low end base, but upper base/lower mid area. Would any of the listed tubes be worth it, or should I wait & get something different that will work better?
  
 Also, I will be interested in trying something different for the opamp, in particular the burson v5i. Would I need the dual x1, dual x2, or single x2. I assume dip8 sockets would be nice, in case I wanted to try other opamps later, are there any other accessories that would be good to pick up?


----------



## peter123

waflet said:


> Hideeho
> 
> 
> [COLOR=0000FF]www.massdrop.com[/COLOR] has the LD 1+ available again. I am probably going to get one. It will come with 6ji (base price) tubes or 6cq6 (+$13) or we408 (+$28). I am looking for a warmer sound for HiFiMan HE-400i’s. Not really low end base, but upper base/lower mid area. Would any of the listed tubes be worth it, or should I wait & get something different that will work better?
> ...




Fwiw I really like the LD I+ with some CV4010 Mullard tubes and the Burson V5 op amp.

Edit: You will need one dual of the Burson V5i.


----------



## waflet

peter123 said:


> Fwiw I really like the LD I+ with some CV4010 Mullard tubes and the Burson V5 op amp.
> 
> Edit: You will need one dual of the Burson V5i.


 

 Hideeho
 Thanks for the help!
 That is what I was guessing on both. I was looking for confirmation & if anyone else had actually tried either of the optional tubes.


----------



## peter123

waflet said:


> Hideeho
> Thanks for the help!
> That is what I was guessing on both. I was looking for confirmation & if anyone else had actually tried either of the optional tubes.




Well, the first two tubes you mention are types of tubes, not a certain brand. Imo you can so better than the we408 for $28 but YMMV.


----------



## waflet

peter123 said:


> Well, the first two tubes you mention are types of tubes, not a certain brand. Imo you can so better than the we408 for $28 but YMMV.


 

 Hideeho
 Wow, I had no idea, thanks!
 It's looking more & more that the amp is a REALLY good deal ($89.99 if 5 more people besides me order it), but the tubes are not so hot.


----------



## peter123

waflet said:


> Hideeho
> Wow, I had no idea, thanks!
> It's looking more & more that the amp is a REALLY good deal ($89.99 if 5 more people besides me order it), but the tubes are not so hot.




Yeah, $89 seems like a very good price. This is a very capable and fun amp. 

As for tubes there's a lot of things at play, such as personal preference, headphones, music, op amps etc 

You'll probably end up with more than one pair of tubes eventually (or you'd rather spend more on tubes than on the amp eventually ) but there's a lot of information in this thread so I'd start with one of the more popular warmer sounding ones for the HE400i and take it from there.


----------



## kamzak88

hi what tube and oamp for grado sr325e and LD+ ? 408a? 6cq6 ?


----------



## CHxJC

kamzak88 said:


> hi what tube and oamp for grado sr325e and LD+ ? 408a? 6cq6 ?


 
 That's the fun of tube amps, there is no set rule for which is better. I believe many said 6HM5 are great with the grados.


----------



## kamzak88

This is *Mullard CV131/6CQ6 ?
http://www.ebay.pl/itm/162417262921?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649*


----------



## gibosi

Yes, the EF92, 6CQ6 and CV131 are all the same tube.

http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_ef92.html

Unfortunately the vendor does not provide the Mullard production code. These were manufactured in Mullard's Whyteleafe “A” factory and in their Mitcham factory. So if you are buying singles, you will want to make sure both were manufactured in the same factory.


----------



## Rick_B

Metafalls said:


> Any one using v5i havin an issue of missing one of the channel after a long usage? It happened twice to me on b5i and nothing else


I have two V5i's that aren't good....after playing for a while in the LD 1+ they start distorting, like within 15 minutes to an hour....they wouldn't even work at all in a CMOY type amp I built that has run just about every dual opamp I can get my hands on....I got a second set of the V5i's from a buddy and they work fine in both applications....I'm trying to figure a way to get the bad ones back to Australia cheaply as most shipping options are darn near what the opamps are worth...


----------



## kamzak88 (May 12, 2017)

Does anyone have a jumper setting (Little Dot +) for ef92, ef95?

my setting its ok ?

tubes: http://www.ebay.pl/itm/282297664387?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

headphones: Grados sr325e

pic:


----------



## Barndoor (May 12, 2017)

Looks correct to me for EF92. Jumpers on the two sets of pins circled red and all the sets circled blue to the left.

Remove the jumpers in the red circles for EF95.


----------



## kamzak88 (May 12, 2017)

RED-Not here pins! so this setting is for EF95 yes? 6J1P-EV is EF95

what's going on withsets (blue circle) ?


----------



## Barndoor

Sorry thought the pins in red circles where covered with jumpers.

EF95 (stock, = 6J1P)
Blue circle = 3 jumpers left
Red circles = uncovered

EF92
Blue circle = 3 jumpers left
Red circles = Covered

408A
Blue circle = 3 jumpers right
Red circles = uncovered


----------



## kamzak88

Barndoor said:


> Sorry thought the pins in red circles where covered with jumpers.
> 
> EF95 (stock, = 6J1P)
> Blue circle = 3 jumpers left
> ...




the so mutch  

grado sr325e is 32ohm. Set on/on is ok ?


----------



## kamzak88

What may be different?

http://www.ebay.pl/itm/EI-6HM5-EC90...723655?hash=item3cfd100687:g:hS0AAOSwUKxYe-B8

http://www.ebay.pl/itm/6HM5-EC900-E...711374?hash=item3a99febb8e:g:IWYAAOSwjDZYe-BY

?


----------



## gibosi

The more expensive pair are matched to within 2%, while the cheaper pair are matched to within 5 - 10%. Since tightly matched pairs offer no advantage in the LD, the cheaper pair is the best buy.


----------



## kamzak88

So i have to choose http://www.ebay.pl/itm/EI-6HM5-EC90...723655?hash=item3cfd100687:g:hS0AAOSwUKxYe-B8

because the man does not faint?

I looking for M8161 or 6CQ6 for LD and Grado sr325e, Which Mullard ebay deals are worth paying attention to?


----------



## anjelbino

Hi guys, this is my first post and my first venture into tubes... Just bought a used LD 1+ with extra mullard tubes.. I think its labeled as mullard EC8010... Dont know anything about how these sound.. My headphones are Hd600 and Dt770 pro 250ohms..also i have a monk plus... 

Can i ask your advice on what i should do to make the LD 1+ to be suitable for my headphones? I believe that you have to change some gain settings to make the amp suitable for high impedance headphones like mine... Will the mullards also sound good with them? The sound im looking for is a balanced tubey sound signature... Will  i be able to achieve it with my LD 1+ given that my headphones  are high impedance? BTW my source will be my PC going into my oppo ha2 SE as DAC then line out to the LD 1+.... Any advice will be greatly appreciated as i know nothing about tubes... Just wanted to try them out.... Thanks


----------



## Dobroserdov

Hello guys, thanks to this thread I got LD 1+ for my Grado RS1.
I did an OPA2017 upgrade already and changed tubes to Voskhod 6J1P-EV (very cheap BTW - $1 for the pair).
Still I'm a bit confused about GAIN jumper switches for LOW/HIGH IMPEDANCE. I have LD v.4.0 and I checked different sources (manuals, youtube videos) and they contradict to each other. I'm still not sure if it is right position for Grado (low impedance), please take a look at the photo attached.


----------



## Arvan

Dobroserdov said:


> Hello guys, thanks to this thread I got LD 1+ for my Grado RS1./QUOTE]
> 
> It's set to low from the start. It's hard to see but the switch is set to L. I thought i had mine on high but when i changed it to 2 on the switch made it even louder


----------



## Dobroserdov

Thank you, I was 80% sure it was set to low accoring to pic attached.

I wonder what do you guys think about ways to make LD sound more "dark"?
I have Grado RS1i which tends to sound bright (opposite to newer RS1e) and it seems that Voskhod tubes add even more brightness.
Any ideas about tubes swapping or maybe change OPA2107 to MUSES?


----------



## frogmeat69

Dobroserdov said:


> Thank you, I was 80% sure it was set to low accoring to pic attached.
> 
> I wonder what do you guys think about ways to make LD sound more "dark"?
> I have Grado RS1i which tends to sound bright (opposite to newer RS1e) and it seems that Voskhod tubes add even more brightness.
> Any ideas about tubes swapping or maybe change OPA2107 to MUSES?


Some Mullard tubes might warm it up a bit, never tried any Grado cans, but have read they are pretty bright, so Mullards should help a bit at least.


----------



## Arvan (Jul 26, 2017)

Dobroserdov said:


> Thank you, I was 80% sure it was set to low accoring to pic attached.
> 
> I wonder what do you guys think about ways to make LD sound more "dark"?
> I have Grado RS1i which tends to sound bright (opposite to newer RS1e) and it seems that Voskhod tubes add even more brightness.
> Any ideas about tubes swapping or maybe change OPA2107 to MUSES?



I got some Mullard EF91 today and i think its the smoothest tube i have tried so far. Its hard to tell exactly since a tube change takes some time and the hearing memory is very short to tell exactly. I have Voshkods and Mullard 8100 to compare with. Stock OP-amp so far but i have a 2107 on the way. Since this is a hybrid the OP might play a big role.


----------



## Dobroserdov

Thank you guys, I will definetly try Mullard tubes. I got mine Muses02 today and I need to share my thoughts - it's fantastic. It does sound more soft and dark, and overal sound improvment comparing to OPA2107 is dramatic. Maybe I have fake OPA2017 because I ordered it on Aliexpress, while Muses came from trusted dealer in Japan. Anyway it's not cheap but worth every penny IMO.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

There're also the Bursons and the Sparko to try. After around 1 year I think the Burson v5 is best to pair with my tubes


----------



## FLguy

Greetings HFers and LD owners.

I have a LD I+ v3.0 and want to switch tubes - to the GE5654W initially. Unfortunately, the manual I received doesn't match the version of the unit which have, and I haven't found a copy of the manual for v3.0 yet. Does any know where I can get a copy of the manual for V3.0 of the LD I+?

I've been able to figure out most of the jumper settings from postings here (thanks everyone). It looks like K2 should be set to the 6J1 side, but am not sure of the correct setting for jumper K1 when using GE 5654W tubes.  Can anyone confirm how jumpers K1 & K2 should be set for these tubes please?


----------



## FLguy

I found a version of the manual (1.11) which describes the same number and names of jumpers as are present on my board, so it _looks_ like it matches my V3 board. The manual doesn't state the board revision that it describes (and the folks at Little dot have not yet responded) so I can't be completely certain.

In case it is helpful for others, according to this version of the manual, again potentially describing the V3 board:

To use WE408A tubes:
1. K1 and K2 set to the side of the “WE408A” text
2. Make sure the jumper caps are removed from J1 and J2 (open circuit)

To use 6JI, 6AK5, 5654, WE403A/B, etc:
1. K1 and K2 set to the side of the “6JI” text
2. Make sure the jumper caps are removed from J1 and J2 (open circuit)

To use EF91, EF92, CV131, CV138, etc:
1. K1 and K2 set to the side of the “6JI” text
2. Make sure the jumpers caps are in place over both J1 and J2 (short circuit)

I hope this helps. Cheers.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

FLguy said:


> I found a version of the manual (1.11) which describes the same number and names of jumpers as are present on my board, so it _looks_ like it matches my V3 board. The manual doesn't state the board revision that it describes (and the folks at Little dot have not yet responded) so I can't be completely certain.
> 
> In case it is helpful for others, according to this version of the manual, again potentially describing the V3 board:
> 
> ...


That surely will help new members. Sorry I didn't notice your question earlier, but really glad you figured it out. Anyway in my case I have been sticking to EF95 because of laziness and the pure goodness of all those Mullards, EI Yugoslavia and GE.


----------



## msknight

I've got an LD 1+ and have been using it for a while, but tonight it burned through a valve (Mullard M8083) - it had been happily playing for months. So I replaced it, and I got audio for a few minutes, and then I lost the replacement valve.

Now, I'm fearful of replacing that one, in case this is a fault in the LD 1+ itself. So I thought I'd ask for some opinions before I made another move with this unit and potentially lost another valve needlessly.


----------



## Arvan

msknight said:


> I've got an LD 1+ and have been using it for a while, but tonight it burned through a valve (Mullard M8083) - it had been happily playing for months. So I replaced it, and I got audio for a few minutes, and then I lost the replacement valve.
> 
> Now, I'm fearful of replacing that one, in case this is a fault in the LD 1+ itself. So I thought I'd ask for some opinions before I made another move with this unit and potentially lost another valve needlessly.



Same thing happened to me. I thought one tube went out but i put in the cheap stock tube but the socket or the complete right channel is dead. All the solder points and everything inside the amp looks in good condition and i cant trace the issue.


----------



## FLguy

WilliamLeonhart said:


> That surely will help new members. Sorry I didn't notice your question earlier, but really glad you figured it out. Anyway in my case I have been sticking to EF95 because of laziness and the pure goodness of all those Mullards, EI Yugoslavia and GE.


No problem. Right, I'm planning to try GE 5654Ws and some Voshkod's, and an improved op amp, and see how that goes. Experimenting to find a good match for a pair of DT800s, for which the LD1+ seems like a good match so far (with the well noted special characteristics of the 880s of course, pros & cons).


----------



## msknight

Arvan said:


> Same thing happened to me. I thought one tube went out but i put in the cheap stock tube but the socket or the complete right channel is dead. All the solder points and everything inside the amp looks in good condition and i cant trace the issue.



I'm fairly sure that I'm having the same issue - that the valve is fine but that the 1+ is losing power on the right channel. I've posted on the official LittleDot forum, but it looks to be unmoderated right now, as there are all sorts of sales and spam posts popping up in there.


----------



## msknight

Arvan said:


> Same thing happened to me. I thought one tube went out but i put in the cheap stock tube but the socket or the complete right channel is dead. All the solder points and everything inside the amp looks in good condition and i cant trace the issue.


OK - going to start slowly delving into this. The valves themselves are OK - but there is power loss after about 30 minutes of running from cold. First suspect are the large resistors. Will probably check them out for drift, after being under heat for so long.


----------



## msknight

Trying to get answers out of LittleDot themselves was difficult. I cut them some slack for the Mid Autumn festival holiday season, but the forum was slow going. Eventually, I gave up on LittleDot themselves.

The end game was that the amp went to a local company for repair. Cost was £64 for labour and parts. It was picked up from me, and will be delivered back tomorrow, all included in the repair price. The person on the end of the phone indicated that a number of parts had been replaced, as I also asked them to take any precautions they thought necessary to guard against future failure. Oddly, it appears that the headphone jack was the subject of a good portion of their disgust despite a fair number of the parts appearing to be Russian in origin.

The valves are used in the pre-amp and the integrated amp does most of the heavy lifting. I had presumed that it was the other way around.

They reported that spending a day listening to the unit while working on other jobs, they are quite impressed with the way that it performs and sounds, given what it is. I'll give an update after it is back in my hands and I've spent a while listening to it again.


----------



## Arvan

So when i bought my amp i got a one year waranty..After like ten emails i finally shipped my amp to their "service guy" in the UK. They kept my amp for no obvious reason for over a month, then sent me a new one. I sent a lot of messages trying to get a decent answers about who pays for shipping, will i get a refund or a new amp etc etc.. Even if i wrote my questions as simple as possible and in a step by step manor i never got a reply answering all my simple questions. The seller was Doukstore on ebay. To be fair they answered every single one of my messages and they are from China so i guess the language barrier is rather huge. However, if you sell stuff on an international market, you better know basic English. 

Anyways, i have a new unit now and it works. So i finally got to try out the Burson V5i opamp i have had lying around for weeks. I also replace the LED.


----------



## msknight

OK - it's been back with me for a few days now, and I've used it every night. I'm very happy that it's working again. For those in the UK, I used ATV Fixit from Crawley to get it repaired. I'll definitely be using these guys again. http://www.atvfixit.tvrepairs.eu/


----------



## Purple Smart

The Little dot 1+ would be awesome if they didn't have such awful QC. I bought the little dot 1+ over a month ago,When I  got it, the right channel didn't work at all. I had then tried switching tubes, same result, tried it from different sources, same result, tried different gain settings, same result. So I returned it and got a replacement.

I got my replacement today and it literally has the same issue as before except it's WORSE, The left channel doesn't work at all, plus, it has this ear wrenching white noise/static/hum coming from it very loudly with volume all the way down and/or no source hooked. I tried swapping tubes, same result, tried the Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV tubes in it, same thing. *Then I realize that the left tube isn't even being powered at all!*


----------



## Selfish Android

Hey guys, i have the Little Dot i+ and i am looking to make some upgrades on it, so far i have upgraded the tubes with a pair of Voshkod 6zh1p-ev and the opamp with the OPA2107, the sound improvement was noticeable right away coming from the stock Chinese tubes and stock op amp.

Now i am looking to go a little further than that and i have noticed that Burson Audio have some mean looking OP AMPS, i am interested in the Top of the line V6 Classic and i would like to know if someone has experience with it, another thing i saw while reading this lengthy post was upgrading the volume knob to one called ALPS blue velvet, i read about replacing the "fuse" and some capacitors.

So my question would be how hard is to replace those things (no the opamp thats pretty straight forward), what else should i replace to get the best sound off of my little dot i+ 

Another question would be what is the absolute best tubes you can buy for this amp, i read the thread and it looks like the voshkods are already the best.

thank you in advance, i am a noob when it comes to soldering and electronic parts so sorry for my lack of knowledge in the topic.


----------



## frogmeat69

Selfish Android said:


> Hey guys, i have the Little Dot i+ and i am looking to make some upgrades on it, so far i have upgraded the tubes with a pair of Voshkod 6zh1p-ev and the opamp with the OPA2107, the sound improvement was noticeable right away coming from the stock Chinese tubes and stock op amp.
> 
> Now i am looking to go a little further than that and i have noticed that Burson Audio have some mean looking OP AMPS, i am interested in the Top of the line V6 Classic and i would like to know if someone has experience with it, another thing i saw while reading this lengthy post was upgrading the volume knob to one called ALPS blue velvet, i read about replacing the "fuse" and some capacitors.
> 
> ...


The Burson V5 and V6 don't fit inside the amp without modification or an adapter, too tall, but the V5i will fit no problem, along with the Sparko. The best tube will be the one you like best, some like the Voshkods, some Mullards, etc.... that's the joy/anguish of tube rolling, trying and buying until you run out of cash, lol.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

In my signature you’d find a link to my review of the I+ with the V5 op-amp. It doesn’t fit into the case. However I do like it a lot. 

As for tubes Voshkods are great, but make sure you buy the rocket logo ones. Other tubes I like include the EI Yugoslavia 6hm5 and GE 5654W.


----------



## Selfish Android

WilliamLeonhart said:


> In my signature you’d find a link to my review of the I+ with the V5 op-amp. It doesn’t fit into the case. However I do like it a lot.
> 
> As for tubes Voshkods are great, but make sure you buy the rocket logo ones. Other tubes I like include the EI Yugoslavia 6hm5 and GE 5654W.



Yeah i got the ones with the Rocket, i specifically looked your review when i got interested in buying those Burson OP AMPS, if i make a hole in the lower part of the case will the V6 still not fit?




frogmeat69 said:


> The Burson V5 and V6 don't fit inside the amp without modification or an adapter, too tall, but the V5i will fit no problem, along with the Sparko. The best tube will be the one you like best, some like the Voshkods, some Mullards, etc.... that's the joy/anguish of tube rolling, trying and buying until you run out of cash, lol.



What about the ALPS Blue velvet i heard it was a big upgrade over the stock knob.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Selfish Android said:


> Yeah i got the ones with the Rocket, i specifically looked your review when i got interested in buying those Burson OP AMPS, if i make a hole in the lower part of the case will the V6 still not fit?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think it still wouldn’t fit because the feets are not “tall” enough. 

My friend helped me replaced the volume knob too, but the difference wasn’t quite clear. One thing I could tell, though, is that I had no more static noise when changing the volume.


----------



## Selfish Android

WilliamLeonhart said:


> I think it still wouldn’t fit because the feets are not “tall” enough.
> 
> My friend helped me replaced the volume knob too, but the difference wasn’t quite clear. One thing I could tell, though, is that I had no more static noise when changing the volume.



Then i guess i gotta buy the adapter, thank you for the info man.


----------



## unnerv

Selfish Android said:


> Then i guess i gotta buy the adapter, thank you for the info man.



Finally something I can answer!

Burson has been out of stock on the v6 Vivid.  I had decided on the Vivid, since I thought it might complement the tube side of the little dot.  I was afraid the Classic would get too intimate and gooey sounding.  I finally got it last weekend.  I have only had a couple of hours but it is definately a big improvement over stock.  I need to give it some time to break in before I make any real comments, but I will say that it made a really big difference in tightening up the bottom end and everything seem more accurate already.  I already feel it was worth the price paid, and I am looking forward to it getting even better. 

Here are a few pic I took of the install






Stock IC replaced.  This thing is pretty tall.  The cover definately was not going to close over this.





After some careful measuring I marked the center point of where it should end up poking thru.  I stepped up drills from 1/8th inch (~3mm) to 1/2 inch (~12-13mm) then broke out my file set and carefully widened the hole it out and squared it up nice.  After about 20 min of careful file work, I test fit and got it in one.





The v6 vivid stuck out a tad longer than the feet.  I placed some washers under and just had enough threads left to screw the feet in.


----------



## Selfish Android

unnerv said:


> Finally something I can answer!
> 
> Burson has been out of stock on the v6 Vivid.  I had decided on the Vivid, since I thought it might complement the tube side of the little dot.  I was afraid the Classic would get too intimate and gooey sounding.  I finally got it last weekend.  I have only had a couple of hours but it is definately a big improvement over stock.  I need to give it some time to break in before I make any real comments, but I will say that it made a really big difference in tightening up the bottom end and everything seem more accurate already.  I already feel it was worth the price paid, and I am looking forward to it getting even better.



Wow dude that is exactly what i was looking for haha, anyway, i will try the V5i first later i will get the V6


----------



## frogmeat69

Just hooked my amp up after a long while, and got the Burson V5i, holy crap. Running it with some Mullard 8100's, fed by a SMSL Sanskrit Pro DAC, making my T1.2's sing. Got it set to high gain, and can only get to 9-10 o'clock, gonna have to try low gain. Never had that problem before, does the V5i kick it up a notch??


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

frogmeat69 said:


> Just hooked my amp up after a long while, and got the Burson V5i, holy crap. Running it with some Mullard 8100's, fed by a SMSL Sanskrit Pro DAC, making my T1.2's sing. Got it set to high gain, and can only get to 9-10 o'clock, gonna have to try low gain. Never had that problem before, does the V5i kick it up a notch??


I don't know the technicality, but it's the op-amp that does the heavy lifting in this amp. The tubes are just a buffer unit, similar to this: https://www.bing.com/search?q=fx+au...85563427bbcdada01ae87e626&cc=US&setlang=en-US


----------



## jaco61 (Nov 5, 2018)

Pretty nice .. love this LD1+ 

V5i + Jan Ge 5455W + E-Mu Teak = wonderful combo, seems each one is made for each other
V5i + Voskhods + E-mu Teak = very detailed but a tad too bright for long term listening
V5i + Voskhods + HD58X = let the sennis shine, simply perfect match

Next thing now should be a change of the the poti. Some did it and are convinced it it is huge step forward. A pity I am not able to do this .. lack of skill and and knowledge. A nice alps poti would be great. But to fix it inside and connect it to the panel I would need a professional. As there is no audible imbalance at all I will leave the poti as it is.


----------



## Onik (Nov 7, 2020)

Just had a look at both V_2 and V_4 Models, The V4_2015 the whole unit is Larger than V_2 and the biggest difference is the inside look:


V_2


V_4


To my Eyes the V_2 Design looks more sexier than V_4(ignore the size of the unit)

I am now thinking Is there any sound difference between these 2 models??


----------



## jaco61

...can't find any sexiness at all in both versions


----------



## Onik

jaco61 said:


> ...can't find any sexiness at all in both versions



LOL


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Hmm I wonder how much the sound has changed. I loved my I+ so much I even got my friend to change the pot to a better one


----------



## jaco61 (Dec 1, 2018)

I too wanted to change the poti  to a nice alps poti but meanwhile I am quite content how it is as there is no noticable imbalance at all. This is somehow rare in this price region. Even Ifi Ican at 3rd time the price had poti imbalance at low volumes.
The poti in the LD 1+ .... I am sure we have a kind of bottleneck here. Did you mentioned some improvement after changing it?


----------



## Daimonos

Anybody here interested in purchasing a few tubes to Little Dot I+ (EU only)? I am selling my amplifier and I have now six pairs of NOS tubes laying around.

Mullard CV5377/M8083/EF91 Matched
EI Yugoslavia 6HM5/EC900 Platinum Matched
Mullard CV4010/M8100/5654 Matched
Siemens 5654W/EF95/6AK5 Matched
JAN Philips ECG 5654W/6AK5/CV4010 Matched
Voskhod 6J1P-EV/6ZH1P-EV/EF95/6F32 Matched

I can send pictures of the items per request.


----------



## Onik

Daimonos said:


> Anybody here interested in purchasing a few tubes to Little Dot I+ (EU only)? I am selling my amplifier and I have now six pairs of NOS tubes laying around.
> 
> Mullard CV5377/M8083/EF91 Matched
> EI Yugoslavia 6HM5/EC900 Platinum Matched
> ...



are ya from UK?


----------



## Daimonos

Onik said:


> are ya from UK?



Finland, but shipping to UK is not an issue.


----------



## davestef132 (Dec 9, 2018)

Hi,
This is my first little dot 1+ post.

I got a “new” ld1 off eBay a couple months ago. And it’s worked fine for me so far. I keep the base plate unscrewed so I can easily access the gain switch. I’ve been doing research on electronics basics and how to solder. My goal is to build a bottlehead crack. So while I was checking out the circuit board in the ld1 I noticed that one of the smaller capacitors was buldging a little and had some residue on it (C14 on the circuit board to be exact). It’s a 470uf 16v 8mmx11.5mm.  There’s another cap that’s the same directly across c14, which is C15. The only difference is that c14 a KYA series and C15 is a KZG series. I checked on eBay and was able to find the KZG in 470uf 16V but not the KYA. Now on the circuit board it only states the cap rating and not the series. So, should I be ok replacing the kya with a KZG? I also found a couple other Nichicon series, such as the KMG, with the same rating for sale and other brands too. Not sure if it makes a difference. I did look at the Nichicon pdf page for each series and they have some different number rating for things I’m not familiar with.

Also, any idea what might cause the cap to bulge/leak? I didn’t inspect it when I first got it, but it was listed as new in open box. I’ve been using it with grado 225, hd6xx/58x, he4xx, M1060, and K7xx. 
http://www.nfjapan.com/datasheet/KZG.pdf
http://www.chemi-con.com/upload/files/3/5/1611211683517194dcdfdc9.pdf
http://www.chemi-con.com/upload/files/9/1/133529179952d6c3126cc66.pdf


----------



## flameas (Dec 14, 2018)

hey, quick and stupid question

i got ge 5654w, i changed k1 and k2 to correct setting but left side tube does not light up or work. did i do something wrong or is the tube broken

edit there is also k3. should i change that too?


----------



## TheBIGKill1998

Hello everyone,

i know this has nothing really to do with "tube rolling", but i find it quite important, since this may help a few people. 
so if anyone of you experiences any kind of "buzzing" or "hum" problem with your little dot 1+,

this solution i found may help: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/little-dot-1-buzzing-problem.877995/#post-14617611


----------



## Onik

V3ng3anc3 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> David might be on holiday like Audio-GD, due to Chinese New Year.
> ...



Does it apply for ld mkii?


----------



## davestef132

For grados do you guys keep your gain switch on the low setting?  I have the sr225e, but low impedance cans in general.  Or do you keep it on high and lower the volume in itunes etc?


----------



## peter123

davestef132 said:


> For grados do you guys keep your gain switch on the low setting?  I have the sr225e, but low impedance cans in general.  Or do you keep it on high and lower the volume in itunes etc?



You should keep your source (iTunes etc) volume at maximum and adjust the volume on the amp. With my SR325is I keep the gain on low to minimize the noise floor, there's still plenty enough volume available.


----------



## Onik

is there any special mod to make the bass a bit more tighter on LD I+?


----------



## peter123

Onik said:


> is there any special mod to make the bass a bit more tighter on LD I+?



Eh, different tubes and/or op amps comes to mind


----------



## davestef132

peter123 said:


> You should keep your source (iTunes etc) volume at maximum and adjust the volume on the amp. With my SR325is I keep the gain on low to minimize the noise floor, there's still plenty enough volume available.


what about for your higher impedance cans? do you leave it on high gain and itunes volume all the way up? or do you only use the sr325 with the LD1+?

I can play my higher impedance cans with the little dot on low gain and they get loud enough, but they just sound better on high gain.

Do you really need to unplug the power cord every time you switch from high/low gain? That’s what the manual says.



Onik said:


> is there any special mod to make the bass a bit more tighter on LD I+?


Mass drop has the burson v5i opamp available from time to time. I bought one during the last drop and it’s a big improvement over the stock opamp. More bass and mid range fullness. And adding Mullard ef91 tubes take makes the bass and mid range sound even better over the western electric 408a tubes I had been using.


----------



## peter123

davestef132 said:


> what about for your higher impedance cans? do you leave it on high gain and itunes volume all the way up? or do you only use the sr325 with the LD1+?
> 
> I can play my higher impedance cans with the little dot on low gain and they get loud enough, but they just sound better on high gain.
> 
> ...



Although I don't use my LD much these days I've used it with everything from IEM's to hard to drive headphones such as the DT880 and pretty much all Sennheisers from HD558 to 800S. The source volume should always be on maximum and if you need more power it's better to use high gain. There really shouldn't be any difference with easy to drive headphones between low and high gain but louder is perceived as better most of the time, have you tried volume matching?

I've always unplugged the power cord just to be on the safe side. 

+1 for the V5i (or even the original V5) op amp.


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## Onik (Jan 29, 2019)

I am now trying  M8100 CV4010 EF95 and GE 5654W but the bass is not deep or extended.

*btw is the sennheiser hd660s any good with LD i+/MK II ?*


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## WilliamLeonhart

Onik said:


> I am now trying  M8100 CV4010 EF95 and GE 5654W but the bass is not deep or extended.
> 
> *btw is the sennheiser hd660s any good with LD i+/MK II ?*


What amp are you using? While the cv4010 is definitely more on the warm side, I’m not sure how “deep” you can expect of it. The 5654w is actually among the most bass-articulate bass I’ve ever had.


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## Onik

WilliamLeonhart said:


> What amp are you using? While the cv4010 is definitely more on the warm side, I’m not sure how “deep” you can expect of it. The 5654w is actually among the most bass-articulate bass I’ve ever had.



ld I+ and LD MK II maybe I’ll need to burn in more.


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## Onik (Apr 6, 2019)

Anyone tried to upgrade/mod the LD I+(old model) with Sparkos Discrete Voltage Regulators?? if not Im thinking go for this mod but still not sure if I should cus I couldn't find any review so far.


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## Ad720

davestef132 said:


> what about for your higher impedance cans? do you leave it on high gain and itunes volume all the way up? or do you only use the sr325 with the LD1+?
> 
> I can play my higher impedance cans with the little dot on low gain and they get loud enough, but they just sound better on high gain.
> 
> ...


 
I just got a v5i in for my 1+. Very, very happy with the results. Noticable increase in the low end and I feel like the mid range is smoother. Great upgrade for the money here .


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## WilliamLeonhart

Ad720 said:


> I just got a v5i in for my 1+. Very, very happy with the results. Noticable increase in the low end and I feel like the mid range is smoother. Great upgrade for the money here .


In fact even the Muses8820 or 8920 would be noticeably  better than the stock opamp. But the problem with those is that most eBay listings are counterfeit. The v5i is a good buy because you can order directly from Burson, and it’s not as expensive as the v5 or v6.


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## wheels55

Hey Headfi'ers... this is my first post. Just thanking you for a such a great thread !! It's helped me such a lot. Particularly William Leonhart's great review and tips.

Happy little dot 1+ owner for around 4 months.
Journey progression is as follows;
Little dot 1+ with burson v5i

Tubes; voshkod 6J1P-EV / 6ZH1P-EV,
GE 5 star
EI Yugoslavia 6HM5
EF91; Mullard M8083
Super Radiotron (sound the same as the mullards)

Headphones;
Beyerdynamic DT880 Premium (32 ohm)
Sennheiser HD58x Jubilee
Grado SR225e

Look forward to reading/contributing more/


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## Onik

just added my LD I+ with my sb zxr(burson v6 modded) sounds good but need to roll more tubes to find the best warmy sound.


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## eldus (Jun 1, 2019)

Just thought I'd share. My Gigabyte PC motherboard would produce noise through my LD 1+ tube amp from my USB DAC. Well the MB killed itself.  So I bought an MSI B450 gaming pro carbon AC. Absolutely no PC noise. Same cable and everything.


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## frogmeat69 (Jul 4, 2019)

Ok, I have a V4.0 board in my 1+, what is the proper setting for low gain? The manual says both switched to on, is that right?? 
Neither setting seems to be low gain, can barely get past turning the volume to  the point where it balances out without it getting too loud to listen on cans like the Meze 99.


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## WilliamLeonhart

frogmeat69 said:


> Ok, I have a V4.0 board in my 1+, what is the proper setting for low gain? The manual says both switched to on, is that right??
> Neither setting seems to be low gain, can barely get past turning the volume to  the point where it balances out without it getting too loud to listen on cans like the Meze 99.


Have you tried turning the volumes to, say, 10 o clock each time you turn on/off the volume to see if there’s any difference? I’d been using the I+ for 16ohm IEMs, so the Meze 99 shouldn’t have that problem. Worst case scenario is you have a defective unit and would have to contact LD for a replacement


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## ls13coco

Anyone with comparisons to the MCTH? I have a LD1+ with a Burson V5i op-amp and Mullard M8100 tubes, does well. I mostly use planars and the MCTH seems quite appealing for the price. 
I was going to hold out for the Liquid Platinum, but at that price.. I'm going the route of patience to see what may come next in terms of hybrid tube amps from the DR.


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## bundy

Hi all i have a question am i able to use 6J1OP tubes i my Little Dot 1+?
Many thanks Allan


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## trivium911

I was always curious about one thing with this amp, what voltage does it output to the headphones? Is it dependent on the gain setting or the volume control?


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## eldus (Jun 5, 2021)

.


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## Onik

eldus said:


> Would there be any major problems using the headphone out of the Little Dot 1+ as a preamp out to an AVR? Or is this "bad" or "wrong"?


Very bad Idea


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## baldera

Hello everyone, I was looking at this thread and thinking about swapping my opamp, so I found out a lot of people talking about muses02.
Found this on ebay, but the price seems very low, is this the real deal?  
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pcs-MUSES...883635?hash=item5b5ad440f3:g:0YMAAOSwYX9dRDG4

Thanks!


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## trivium911

baldera said:


> Hello everyone, I was looking at this thread and thinking about swapping my opamp, so I found out a lot of people talking about muses02.
> Found this on ebay, but the price seems very low, is this the real deal?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pcs-MUSES...883635?hash=item5b5ad440f3:g:0YMAAOSwYX9dRDG4
> 
> Thanks!


I swapped in a Muse02 chinese knockoff from alliexpress, no complaints and the sound smoothed out and was less harsh on the higher end!


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## JackSkully

Hi everyone I just bought a little dot 1+ from a heafier a few days ago but it seems the left channel has stopped working due to the 1/4 connection. Any way to fix this ??


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## trivium911

JackSkully said:


> Hi everyone I just bought a little dot 1+ from a heafier a few days ago but it seems the left channel has stopped working due to the 1/4 connection. Any way to fix this ??


Likely need to solder a new connector on. Are you sure its not the cable? You can also try an alcohol soaked q-tip.


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## Yaska729

JackSkully said:


> Hi everyone I just bought a little dot 1+ from a heafier a few days ago but it seems the left channel has stopped working due to the 1/4 connection. Any way to fix this ??


If the problem still occurs, maybe the best idea is to send it back to Little Dot and have them fix it for you. Little Dot offers life time repairing for all of their devices, but the shipping fee is always a killer though....


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## JackSkully

Yaska729 said:


> If the problem still occurs, maybe the best idea is to send it back to Little Dot and have them fix it for you. Little Dot offers life time repairing for all of their devices, but the shipping fee is always a killer though....


Actually I was able to fix it myself had to open it up and figured out that it was the RCA cable connection. So I desoldered and resoldered it back and it was fixed


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## trivium911

JackSkully said:


> Actually I was able to fix it myself had to open it up and figured out that it was the RCA cable connection. So I desoldered and resoldered it back and it was fixed


Im looking for replacement RCA's for mine, they are a bit loose unless that is normal. I also bought mine used on here.


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## JackSkully

trivium911 said:


> Im looking for replacement RCA's for mine, they are a bit loose unless that is normal. I also bought mine used on here.


try tightening the rca jacks with pliers


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## trivium911

JackSkully said:


> try tightening the rca jacks with pliers


are you saying the cable? or the connector on the LD itself.


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## JackSkully

trivium911 said:


> are you saying the cable? or the connector on the LD itself.


Connecter on the ld itself


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## trivium911

JackSkully said:


> Connecter on the ld itself


I think you misunderstood where it was loose. The barrel connector itself is not as tight as it should be as in the RCA cable is too easy to pull out.


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## GotNoRice (Oct 29, 2020)

I decided to try a Burson V6 Classic in my Little-Dot I+.  My goal is to put them in my DAC but I don't have three of them yet, so I figured I might as well give it a whirl in my Little-Dot I+.  I was happy with the results.  Here is my little mini-review:

*History:*

A while back, when deciding which Opamp to use in my Little-Dot I+ Headphone amplifier, I had narrowed down my favorite opamps to the LM4562 (dual opamp) and the OPA627 (two single OPA627 opamps on an adapter board).  The LM4562 had a texture to the sound that I enjoyed, but was also just a little bit harsh.  The OPA627 was very smooth, but almost too smooth, and lacking texture.  I generally preferred the LM4562.  The Burson V6 Classic Dual seemed to be the next step up, but I was not actually sure what to expect.

My system:
-Maverick Audio TubeMagic D2 DAC (Sylvania 5654W tube & 3x LM4562 Opamp)
-Little-Dot I+ (Sylvania "Gold Brand" 408A tubes)
-Beyerdynamic DT770-Pro 80ohm / Sony MDR-XB700 24ohm headphones.

*First impressions:*

The Burson V6 Classic Opamps come in wonderful packaging, also containing an optional riser.  The riser was very helpful in keeping the Burson Opamp up above the other components on the circuitry on the Little-Dot I+ (at least with my PCB version).

Case with one Opamp and one riser removed:


When playing the first song after installing the Burson V6 Classic, what I noticed immediately was that the sound just seemed a bit more energetic, especially vocals, and making for some very punchy midbass.  Thinking back to my previous comparison between opamps, this Burson seems to have both the smoothness of the OPA627 while having even more texture than the LM4562; truly a best of both worlds, and more.

Unfortunately, the V6 Opamp is so large that the bottom of the case for the Little-Dot I+ won’t close with it installed (and the riser only makes it worse).  As I have seen in other reviews, some have simply cut a hole in the bottom of the case, others have used custom extensions/adapters to use the Opamp at an angle.  I will have to decide which route I want to take, but for now, I will simply use my Little-Dot I+ on its side.







*Extended listening:*

First, I went through some Hard Rock and Metal using my Beyerdynamic DT770-Pro 80ohm headphones.  I use many of these songs as my benchmark to test vocals, to see if the vocals can retain their clarity and energy even in the middle of a very “busy” song.  The Burson V6 Classic had no problems passing this test.  There was no accentuated treble either, and listening fatigue was not an issue even after a long session.

Next, I swapped over to my Sony MDR-XB700 24ohm headphones.  These have very large drivers, and at 24 ohms the Little-Dot I+ can put out almost a full watt.  I use this for listening to music with very deep bass, including some Pop, Hard Rock, EDM and Dubstep.  Bass can have a texture of its own, and I have observed differences between Opamps in this regard before.  Using the Burson V6 Classic, I did not notice anything special about the deep bass.  But at least, it didn’t seem to be doing anything worse than past Opamps that I have tried, and even bass-heavy songs still have plenty of midrange and midbass that clearly does benefit.

*Conclusion:*

My experience with this Burson V6 Classic Dual Opamp has been fantastic.  Everything about my listening experience was either equal to, or better than, every past opamp that I have tried.  

The tall size does make installation in devices such as a Little-Dot I+ a challenge without getting creative, but in my opinion, It’s worth it.

Ultimately, I really look forward to trying these in my DAC also and seeing if they make a noticeable change there as well.


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## Onik

Just had chance to take picture of these two revs of Ld i+ before I'm going to sell the old ones, and as you can see the older(v_2.0) models have smaller transformer than the latest models(rev 4.0). 

Not really an expert with tube amps I can say this for sure that the new model is an improved version of LD i+ but why Little dot choosed to change the size of this amps transformer? 

I only used the new ones rev 4.0 because it didn't have any buzzing noise/gnd loop issues at high gain mode like the old ones, but I didn't really hear significant SQ difference between this two when using same tubes.


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## brucew268

I just received an LD1+ with Mullard M8161's from someone who probably bought it off of Drop, since it only has 40 hours on it and is a v4.0 board. Nice and quiet and so far not overly bothered about by LCD monitor inches away or my smartphone about 18 inches away.

Here is what I'm noticing and wonder which direction will gain more benefits:
In intimate musical settings, simple jazz trios, etc. it presents with a little bit of depth and space around the instruments and voices, though not especially obvious. But it doesn't scale up very well. When the music gets complex and/or loud the sense of space between the instruments is lost and it gets slightly muddy. In upper mids it sometimes gets a little strained.

These are mostly noticeable by comparison to the ifi Zen amp (Class A) I was just listening through, and I'm listening on M1060 planars 50Ω, 96dB sens.

So I could get any of the following to see how much each will address what I'm hearing:

Silicone o-ring dampers
Damping feet or base below the amp
Change opamp to OPA2107
Try other tubes, like 6HM5 Yugoslavian

...or I might be asking too much of a $100 hybrid.


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## brucew268

Perhaps everyone has lost interest in LD1+… or another newbie, can’t be bothered. Anyway, No, it’s not asking too much of a $100 hybrid.



At first I played a little with putting a board under the amp with soft footers beneath that, which helped but weren’t soft enough for a component this light in weight.

Then I tried silicone o-rings as tub dampers which really made the details pop across the frequency spectrum, lows, mids, and highs, but it came at the loss of some air and sense of natural space around the instruments. Impressive but unnatural. And of course, where one places the o-ring on the tube makes a difference.

Vibration control in general is an art as much as a science and so I’m not finished with experimenting, including thinner o-rings on the tube, or an o-ring on the tube socket (ceramic base).

But replace the stock opamp MC33078 with an OPA2107, and this just became a much better amplifier giving me a lot more time to experiment while enjoying this amp... and scales well with better DACs.

Of course RFI can present as audible noise or just as slightly degraded sound, so it’s worth experimenting with whether you stack this on top of a DAC or other component or separate by a few inches, and how near is it to the mobile phone, cordless home phone, LED or CLR lightbulb, its cables mingling with other cables behind the desk, etc.

I found that when I moved the amp to the other side of the desk from the phone and desk lamp, things improved. But life, presence and bass definition were not quite as good as they had been at some points in the trials. So, I put a bamboo board between the amp and the DAC and ultrasoft silicone bumpers underneath the board. Bingo, that all came back.

If you get swish or hash noise sometimes even when the volume is down, and it gets worse when touching or adjusting the tubes, what about those pins on the NOS tubes? I cleaned the pins and socket holes well with alcohol and then even Deoxit, let it dry and then pushed in and out of the socket a few times, which quieted things right up.

Of course those who have used tube amplifiers before know all this, but with the new waves of users through Drop and ChiFi, I thought it might be worth my summary of the last week’s efforts.


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## johanchandy (Nov 25, 2020)

I have a LD1+ on the way as well as some Mullard M8100 tubes, I am trying to decide between the burson v6 classic and vivid op amp, which do you all think would serve me better? I plan to use it with my Grado Hemps and a modi 3 dac. I'm leaning towards the v6 classics but I'm worried if it would sound slightly congested?


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## johanchandy (Dec 6, 2020)

So I got the LD1+, installed the burson v6 classic opamp and the mullard m8100 tubes, and it sounds pretty decent but I find it fatiguing with my Grado hemp, I was hoping for a smoother more relaxed sound. I even find the stock tubes better in this regard. What is a nice warm bassy tube that would work for my setup? I'm using the modi 3 as a dac and the schiit heresy is amazing with the hemp for a live sound, I was hoping the LD1+ would give me a more relaxed alternative. Could this also be because it probably needs more burn-in as well?

Edit: I'm really loving the stock tubes soo much more paired with the burson v6c, really smooth and musical, but they're a tad noisy, what would be an upgrade to the stock tubes that share a similar sound?


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## brucew268 (Dec 19, 2020)

These tube damping experiments were all with Mullard M8161 which I quite like overall, good dynamics, detail, soundstaging, air, mids and frequency extremes. Natural sounding with richness but not bloomy.

Adding the following silicone o-rings had the following results for me:

17mm (ID) x 2mm – on tubes by the upper mica spacer. Makes details pop and is dynamic but is a bit hyped and unnatural. (A good fit without being tight so one can add or remove with power on. These tubes don’t run hot.)

17mm x 1mm – same place on tube as above. Takes the above and backs of to more realistic levels. It still felt slightly unnatural to me in an absolute sense but many might like it.

14mm x 2mm – fitted to porcelain socket base, have to open up and get at the back side of the PCB. Better than the effects of the 17mm x 2mm above but not quite as much as the 1mm – not entirely natural.

10mm x 1mm – Put around the tube’s pins not the glass. At only 1mm does not get in the way of a good fit with pins and socket. This kept most of the musical details about the same as no o-ring but reduced the sense of air that goes with plate reverb or fill mics. If you feel like the air and space is a bit overdone in most recordings or suffers from a bit of electronic overshoot, then this tames that nicely. The vocals and music felt very real and present so that when I removed these o-rings, the HF stuff mentioned above felt a little distracting for a bit. Which is most realistic I’m not prepared to judge at this moment. I could even see switching these in or out like tube rolling based on mood or music.

Of course one has a loss of at least 10-15 minutes minutes for turning off amp and letting capacitors drain before making the change and then getting back to "optimal temperature".

In the end I prefer the amp mostly with just the extra soft silicone bumpers pictured in post #3,125 and no o-rings, though I could see occasionally ‘rolling’ in the 10mm rings on the pins.

#orings


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## Onik

Hi maybe not the best place to ask but maybe someone can help me:

I wanna know if its possible to add pre amp option(rca phono sockets) at the back by drilling holes on my Ld I+, by increasing the output impedance(say 15k registor) and with a switch for changing the output from headphone out to preamp?


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## headphonefranz

Hello everyone. I am not very technical and accidentally bought a pair of Burson V6 Classic opams - but SINGLE not Dual. 
Can I use a single in my Little Dot I ? Or does it only accept the dual? I read about an adapter to turn 2 singles into a dual? 
Would this be a solution if I cannot use one of the singles?

I would appreciate it if anyone who reads this and has an idea could share their knowledge.

Thanks a lot!

Dean


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## Deleeh

Hello,

no, you cannot install the single when dual is required.

If this is an adapter that supports this, it would be possible, but I'm hearing it for the first time.

I would have them exchanged if possible.


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## headphonefranz

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> 
> no, you cannot install the single when dual is required.
> 
> ...


Thanks Deleeh. So I guess you are saying the Little Dot I requires a dual opamp? Unfortunately, an exchange isn't possible - it was a mistake-purchase on eby. I'll just try and resell them.


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## GotNoRice (May 8, 2022)

headphonefranz said:


> Hello everyone. I am not very technical and accidentally bought a pair of Burson V6 Classic opams - but SINGLE not Dual.
> Can I use a single in my Little Dot I ? Or does it only accept the dual? I read about an adapter to turn 2 singles into a dual?
> Would this be a solution if I cannot use one of the singles?



There are adapters to convert two single OpAmps into a Dual OpAmp.  Example:

https://www.cimarrontechnology.com/product/browndog-021001-single-to-dual-op-amp-adapter

The only problem is that the Burson OpAmps are huge.  There is no way you would be able to fit both on the little adapter linked above.  You would have to do some custom wiring or find a similar adapter that was more widely spaced (assuming it would fit in the little-dot).


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## headphonefranz

GotNoRice said:


> There are adapters to convert two single OpAmps into a Dual OpAmp.  Example:
> 
> https://www.cimarrontechnology.com/product/browndog-021001-single-to-dual-op-amp-adapter
> 
> The only problem is that the Burson OpAmps are huge.  There is no way you would be able to fit both on the little adapter linked above.  You would have to do some custom wiring or find a similar adapter that was more wildly spaced (assuming it would fit in the little-dot).


Thanks a lot GotNoRice - that’s very helpful and appreciated.


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## Dawgfish

Looks like this thread has been inactive for awhile.  I just posted my review of the Little Dot 1+ paired with the Burson V5i-D opamp here:  https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/burson-audio-supreme-sound-opamp-v5i.21562/reviews#review-29859


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## wheels55

Great review... have been enjoying mine for a few years now. Never ceases to amaze me what the 1+ does with the v5i even when it shouldn't. Has perfect synergy with grado headphones in particular


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## Deleeh

That's how I saw it too.
The V5i is just right for the LD1+.
And it also takes away the crackling when you switch it off.

The V5i just sounds rounder, firmer, juicier and meatier.
I still have the other two OP amps where I could test before the Ld1+ went bye-bye.
None of the 2 really matched the sound of the Ld1+ and it was noticeable that the Ld1+ couldn't really cope with them.
Partly it was also the case that it had coloured the sound.

The V5i doesn't do that at all, it adds a nice touch that remains subtle, not too much and not too little and doesn't make the original OP look good either.

If you want to go a step further, replace the Elna with Nichicon's Fine Gold capacitors for a more linear sound instead of juicy and wet.
This makes the Ld1+ breathe a little better and is worth it.


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## wheels55

Deleeh said:


> That's how I saw it too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## wheels55

Deleeh said:


> That's how I saw it too.
> The V5i is just right for the LD1+.
> And it also takes away the crackling when you switch it off.
> 
> ...


times like this i really wish i could solder !


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## wheels55

excuse this post... something went wrong and i don't know how to delete it


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