# The Dolby Atmos Discussion Thread (true three-dimensional sound)



## Music Alchemist

Here you can post your thoughts and experiences of Dolby Atmos.
  
 Many of you have already heard of this speaker technology that delivers the ultimate immersive experience.
  
 I just think it's SO COOL! Too cool, in fact, for me to describe it all myself.
  
 Here are some reference links:
 http://www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/dolby-atmos.html
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_Atmos
 http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/Dolby+Atmos
 http://dolbyatmos.onkyousa.com
 http://www.crutchfield.com/S-c5YSeMjBFVZ/brands/dolby-atmos.aspx
 http://www.cnet.com/news/dolby-atmos-at-home-ears-on
  
 What interests me the most is that your music collection can still reap the benefits.
  


> If you invest in building a Dolby Atmos home theater, you want to get full use of it, even if the content you’re playing isn’t mixed in Dolby Atmos. That’s where the new Dolby surround upmixer comes in.
> 
> When you enable it for non-Atmos multi-channel content, the Dolby surround upmixer expands the audio so that it takes advantage of your entire system, including the ceiling or Dolby Atmos enabled speakers while still honoring and maintaining the artist’s intent for the mix. Dolby surround upmixer replaces the Dolby Pro Logic II family of upmixers, offering greater flexibility and superior audio performance.
> 
> Unlike previous wideband upmixing technologies, the Dolby surround upmixer operates on multiple perceptually spaced frequency bands for a fine-grained analysis of the source signal. Dolby surround upmixer can individually steer frequency bands, producing surround sound with precisely located audio elements and a spacious ambience. The Dolby surround upmixer will provide audio to the same set Dolby Atmos enabled or ceiling speakers configured in your system.


 
  
 It even works with headphones!
  


> The Dolby Atmos renderer on the device takes the spatial information from the audio objects created for the cinema and renders them in three-dimensional space over headphones. Combining the object-based audio with binaural headphone rendering, which relies on outer ear and shoulder cues, Dolby Atmos reconstructs a natural, immersive sound experience.


 
  
 For those who have direct experience, it would be especially helpful if you shared advice with everyone. Comparisons with high-end headphones and virtual surround sound processors are welcome too.


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## Giogio

Just read today an article about it on WhatHiFi.
 I find it a pity that it is something which must be hardware integrated. This means that there is no chance to keep my smartphone.
 It also means, that in the moment I will have a smartphone with this, I will no more be able to enjoy my music on the PC.
 It would have been better a software.
 For example, with the Jabra Revo Wireless comes a Dolby software which do, actually, improves the sound. And once you have the App (which requires a code which you receive with the Revo) you can use it with any headphone, but only when you use that App as a music player, which, well, it sucks a bit, and I kind of think that what I gain with the Dolby I lose it by not using Neutron.
 Anyway, this Atmos it is super interesting.
 I am really curious to see how it improves the sound.
 In my Xperia Z1 Compact I have the Sony enhancement stuff, and there is a sort of reverb, hall, studio, etc.
 The way the sound improve from off to studio is very noticeable. No matter how good is your headphone and its soundstage, it still improves.
  
 So, this must be even better!
 My problem is that I am addicted to Xperia due to the Waterproof thing.
 I am not sure I can ever more use a non waterproof phone.
  
 So. If now Sony make an Xperia, waterproof, with Atmos and with LDAC, I'm sold (IF the MDR-1ABT are really that good).


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## cel4145

I wouldn't get too excited about Dolby Atmos for headphones. Seems it might be more of an update to Dolby Headphone. The Atmos concept is built around adding more speakers to a home theater setup to create better spatial effects. Other than the fact that it works with objects instead of channels if the source is Atmos encoded--which might improve virtual surround a bit for headphones--it's not really a technology advancement geared toward 2 transducer setups. 

So when they say on their website, "Put on any headphones or earbuds, and experience Dolby Atmos sound on your mobile device," I just don't buy it. http://www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/dolby-atmos/mobile.html


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## cel4145

Here's more advertising hype of the Dolby Atmos for headphones: "And today, we’re really proud to see the Amazon Fire HDX 8.9 tablet launch with the ability to play movies with Dolby Atmos® soundtracks over standard headphones.

If you’ve ever been to a Dolby Atmos movie in the cinema, you’ll know what a huge development this is. Dolby Atmos transports you into the movie with multidimensional sound that fills the theatre with amazing richness and depth. Sound comes from all directions, including overhead, making you feel like you are truly inside the story."
http://blog.dolby.com/2014/09/dolby-atmos-goes-mobile/

It can't duplicate the Atmos theater experience. Cmon, Dolby. Do you think we are that gullible? LOL


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## Giogio

Yes, but, it can surely dramatically improve the "non atmos" experience, right?
 Better than nothing. It does not sound like in a theater, but it sounds much better than without Atmos.
  
 I do not know anything about this Dolby Headphones.
 Can be installed in any Handy and PC?


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## cel4145

giogio said:


> Yes, but, it can surely dramatically improve the "non atmos" experience, right?
> Better than nothing. It does not sound like in a theater, but it sounds much better than without Atmos.
> 
> I do not know anything about this Dolby Headphones.
> Can be installed in any Handy and PC?




True Dolby Atmos is a recording that is encoded with up to 128 objects instead of a much more limited number of channels (5.1 or 7.1). And then you have (at minimum) a 5.1.2 speaker setup--two more speakers in the ceiling than a normal 5.1 setup (read about speaker configurations) to take advantage of that (even more speakers is better). So how does a headphone, which only has two speakers, really benefit from that? Sure. Might get a little better surround encoding for virtual surround because of the objects, but it's still only going into two speakers. But it sure will sell devices when they say that they have Dolby Atmos for headphones.

As for Dolby Headphone, it's hardware based. You need a sound card with it.


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## Music Alchemist

There is virtual surround sound software for headphones that emulates the sound of speaker systems. Out Of Your Head is relatively affordable. The Smyth Realiser A8 is more advanced -- a hardware device with proprietary software and technology that lets you visit and measure any speaker system and "copy" its sound. Many people (even those very experienced with speakers and headphones) said that it was indistinguishable from speakers!
  
 Dolby Atmos content relies on the audio objects, so it would be different from normal content, even on headphones, but obviously nothing like a Dolby Atmos speaker system.


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## cel4145

music alchemist said:


> *Dolby Atmos content relies on the audio objects*, so it would be different from normal content, even on headphones, but obviously nothing like a Dolby Atmos speaker system.




Does it? While I realize that is optimal, I was under the impression that Dolby Atmos will attempt to use all 5.1.2 speakers with non-Dolby Atmos content. Could be wrong.


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## Music Alchemist

cel4145 said:


> Does it? While I realize that is optimal, I was under the impression that Dolby Atmos will attempt to use all 5.1.2 speakers with non-Dolby Atmos content. Could be wrong.


 
  
 I said Dolby Atmos _content_, as in audio mixed specifically for Dolby Atmos. It can still use non-Atmos content.


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## cel4145

music alchemist said:


> I said Dolby Atmos _content_, as in audio mixed specifically for Dolby Atmos. It can still use non-Atmos content.




My bad. So you are basically just confirming what I said in the previous post about Atmos


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## Giogio

So, do you think that normal content, with Dolby Atmos, on Headphones, would not sound much different?
 Or that other things like those Out of Your Head would be better?
 The Dolby Headphones, I could not find much info on their website.
 How does it depend on hardware?


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## Music Alchemist

cel4145 said:


> My bad. So you are basically just confirming what I said in the previous post about Atmos


 
  
 Yep! ^_^
  


giogio said:


> So, do you think that normal content, with Dolby Atmos, on Headphones, would not sound much different?
> Or that other things like those Out of Your Head would be better?
> The Dolby Headphones, I could not find much info on their website.
> How does it depend on hardware?


 
  
 I have no idea, since I haven't used them myself. I'm going to assume that all of them change the sound, though.
  
 Click the Smyth Realiser A8 link if you want to learn about the technology of the device. Looks really cool. I want it, but it's nearly $3,000...


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## Giogio

That's a bt too much out of my budget


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## Music Alchemist

giogio said:


> That's a bt too much out of my budget


 
  
 Out Of Your Head is affordable and has a free trial, but I've never used it. There are also free solutions out there.


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## Giogio

I have downloaded the trial.
 I am not overly impressed.
 First of all, it only works with presets. Presets of existing speakers.
 I find the idea absolutely non interesting.
 I could eventually accept presets, invented ones, like, studio, room, hall, etc.
 But what i am looking for is something where I can customize the effect. Like the App of Parrot Zik 2.
 Besides, this is only for PC and Mac. No Android.
 I need something for both PC and Android, or two different things.
 Also, they offer a bypass mode so that you can compare the different presets and supposedly see the difference with or without effect.
 Well, I think they kind of cheat there. The bypass mode is NOT a bypass mode and make things sound like ****. When I completely turn the program off, the difference is huge. So, they want you to believe that your headphones without the program sound like ****.
 Not nice.
 For me they are out.
 But some presets were cool. I kind of felt them a bit too much reverbering, if you know what I mean. Really way too much reverb effect.
 But thanks


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## Music Alchemist

giogio said:


> I have downloaded the trial.
> I am not overly impressed.
> First of all, it only works with presets. Presets of existing speakers.
> I find the idea absolutely non interesting.
> ...


 
  
 Well, I'm not promoting it or anything. And I've never used it myself. It's just a software I've heard of that many people like.
  
 For customization, a parametric equalizer is all I'm interested in for the near future.


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## Giogio

Of course, I was not thinking that 
 Sorry if you felt attacked, my tone was against the program, not you.
 I felt just disappointed for how they make all sound bad with the bypass, so that people think "wow, what a difference".
 And, as said, just way too much reverb.
  
 I also use a Parametric EQ on Neutron under Android, and a normal band EQ in MusicBee under Windows.
 But although it customize the sound signature, it does not change the Soundstage as a virtual surround effect does.
 I am searching other solutions now, especially for windows, because at least in my xperia I have a native stage simulation effect which improves the soundstage, even if not exactly a virtual surround...
 Although if I find a good one for Android too, it would be cool.
  
 Oh, EDIT: I have just found out that Out of your Head is completely useless with movies and BT Headphones. Although my headphone is Aptx (which is not zero lateny but better than normal BT) the OOYH software adds a HUGE amount of latency which make all out of synch.
 I have tried the Razor, the demo version only has got a preset and you cannot configure anything. It does not change the soundstage at all, it just makes all a bit louder and add distortion.
 It took one our to install, takes lot of resources, and creates several conflicts.
 What a piece of crap.
 Maybe the full version is ok but with such a beginning I would never give them a single cent.
 They should offer a time limited full version so people can really see if it is worth.
  
 Anyway. THis was a thread about Atmos 
 I leave. Thanks for the imputs.


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## Focker

Thanks to Giogio for letting me know another Atmost thread existed...
  
 Here's my take on the Atmos implementation in the Amazon Kindle Fire HDX tablet
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/740315/kindle-fire-hdx-with-dolby-atmos#post_11003282


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## Fegefeuer

Object/geometry/coordinates/material based audio rendering is the future anyway and NOT virtualized speaker rooms. I am not interested in the realizer but complex binaural algorithms and material filters that are used to create a binaural stereo output to headphones via XYZ etc..... Dolby Atmos for headphones is the right way.
  
 Thanks to VR games will go back where they once were (Aureal 3D etc.). Using space coordinates to render audio and not virtualize a speaker room that only knows flats. Typical problem of the rendering of the last 8 years is when objects that are above you and below you sound like they are on the same level. Elevation is a typical nonsensical problem. It wasn't with A3D and CMSS-3D with OpenAL/DS3D.


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## Music Alchemist

focker said:


> Thanks to Giogio for letting me know another Atmost thread existed...
> 
> Here's my take on the Atmos implementation in the Amazon Kindle Fire HDX tablet
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/740315/kindle-fire-hdx-with-dolby-atmos#post_11003282


 


fegefeuer said:


> Object/geometry/coordinates/material based audio rendering is the future anyway and NOT virtualized speaker rooms. I am not interested in the realizer but complex binaural algorithms and material filters that are used to create a binaural stereo output to headphones via XYZ etc..... Dolby Atmos for headphones is the right way.
> 
> Thanks to VR games will go back where they once were (Aureal 3D etc.). Using space coordinates to render audio and not virtualize a speaker room that only knows flats. Typical problem of the rendering of the last 8 years is when objects that are above you and below you sound like they are on the same level. Elevation is a typical nonsensical problem. It wasn't with A3D and CMSS-3D with OpenAL/DS3D.


 
  
 All this talk makes me even more curious to try Atmos!
  
 I especially wonder how it will sound on headphones with non-Atmos content. (Since most music is not mixed in Atmos.)


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## fritzritz

I'm looking to get a new pair of headphones for console gaming and would like virtual surround sound. To do this, I was going to use something like the Astro mixamp. I also have an AV receiver (onkyo tx-nr636) with Dolby Atmos capability, from what I can tell it does not have Dolby Headphone. I have tried to research Dolby Atmos and its affects on headphones but have not found anything definitive. Any thoughts on the items below would be appreciated:

1. Difference between running headphones through the mixamp vs running it through the AV receiver without the mixamp. If I want virtual surround sound, can I get away with just the av receiver which has Dolby Atmos?

2. Lets say the av receiver and Dolby Atmos does nothing to create virtual surround for my headphones. If I use the mixamp to get virtual surround sound and then run the signal through the av receiver to use it as an amp for the headphones, would that hurt the quality of the virtual surround sound created by the mixamp?

Any input or thoughts on Dolby Atmos for headphones would be appreciated, thanks.


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## cel4145

Your receiver definitely may not have any kind of Dolby Atmos being used with the headphone output. Check your manual. 

Doesn't the Mixamp only have analog out, via headphone jack (or a line out)? Unless it has optical out, might not sound any better to re-amp the astro mixamp through your receiver. Might work just as well to connect directly into the mixamp with your headphones. 

What headphones do you have?


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## fritzritz

cel4145 said:


> Your receiver definitely may not have any kind of Dolby Atmos being used with the headphone output. Check your manual.
> 
> Doesn't the Mixamp only have analog out, via headphone jack (or a line out)? Unless it has optical out, might not sound any better to re-amp the astro mixamp through your receiver. Might work just as well to connect directly into the mixamp with your headphones.
> 
> What headphones do you have?


 
  
 I think we are right in assuming that the headphones wont be using Dolby Atmos in any kind of way.  The manual wasn't too helpful, this is the only blurb about headphones in the Atmos section of the manual:
  
 "If you selected any other listening mode than Pure Audio (European, Australian and Asian models), Stereo, Mono and Direct, connecting headphones will switch the listening mode to Stereo."
  
 You are right, the mixamp doesn't have optical out. 
  
 I do not have a pair of headphones yet, still trying to make a selection.  Part of making the selection is trying to understand how my AV Receiver may or may not impact my setup. 
  
 During my research it seems that many headphones benefit from an external amp (not the mixamp, which is just a virtual surround sound processing device and also mixes chat).  Since I am going to be primarily gaming, the AKG line looks good and they all seem to require some amping to get the most out of them, I am also looking at the Fidelio X2 which doesn't need amping....I am trying to determine if I could save some money and use my AV Receiver as an external amp if I end up getting a headset that requires amping. 
  
 Essentially, I am trying to determine if my AV Receiver can replace the headphone amp in Mad Lust Envy's diagram below or if I should just leave my AV Receiver out of it and get a separate headphone amp if my headphones need it, which I am fine with doing if need be:
  
 My last concern is if I do try and use my AV receiver as an amp, will it negate any of the virtual surround sound processing that was done by the astro mixamp or will the virtual surround sound make it through the AV receiver?


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## cel4145

AVRs tend to have a good bit of power. And in that regard, they can drive difficult to drive headphones. A best guess it at that it would do better than the Astro with the AKG K/Q7 series. 

AVRs tend to have a low output impedance that is fairly high, and so generally not a great choice for low impedance headphones (such as the X2). Will do better with mid impedance or even better with high impedance headphones. I use my Denon AVR with my AKG K7XX. By attaching a Fiio E12 headphone amp to the headphone jack, they sound a bit better. But it's not an earth shattering difference--they still sound decent without the amp for movie and TV watching, IMO. 

So with whatever headphones you get, you should try the Astro Mixamp alone, and then hooked to your AVR. You can plug it into the CD, DVD, or pretty much any of the RCA inputs except for Phono (if you have that) and see which you like better with the headphones you get. An external headphone amp? Sure, it could help. But the main priority is making sure you have enough power to drive the headphones to your listening volume with headroom left for dynamic peaks. If you are getting that and satisfied with the sound, don't spend the money expecting big differences.


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## fritzritz

cel4145 said:


> AVRs tend to have a good bit of power. And in that regard, they can drive difficult to drive headphones. A best guess it at that it would do better than the Astro with the AKG K/Q7 series.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Thanks for the response and all the help, still need to decide on headphones but I will take your recommendation and hold off on an external amp till I try out using my AVR.


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## SugizoYoshikiX

I believe DTS:X 3D sound was designed to be heard with headphones.


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## tripletopper

I have experienced Dolby Atmos Headphones on the Xbox One, both with Dolby Atmos encoded and DTS 7.1 encoded movies.  (Yes the Xbox One has both Dolby-> DTS and DTS-> Dolby translators, just set it up for the type of input audio it can receive.)  I orignally wondered if DTS being translated into Dolby is as good as Dobly native?  They both sounded the same, bt sounded underwheming using the Dolby Atmos Headphone app for the Xbox one.  I did it so it piped into my Turtel Beach X41, wihc can either be set on mode a whihc is Dolby Por logic, or mode B, convert Dolby 5.1 ntoDolby Headphones if Dolby 5.1 is detected through the headphones, or simply pass through it it’s just Stereo, or pre-encoded for headphone 2 channel setp, like the Dolby Atmos Heapdhone app does, translate Dolby Atmos into 2-track headphone by using the Xbox One processor and the Dolby App.


Then I remembered that I used to let my ears lead my eyes, and know where sound is coming from, even if I don’t see it.   So I tried it the old way, using the Xbox to translate DTS-> Dolby if necessary, and then output 5.1 thorught the Tolsink, where my Turtle BEach X41 takes a native Dolby 5.1 and translate it into Dolby Headphone.


The Dolby 5.1 headphone encoding had 2 obvious features.    One the explosions felt bigger, and the wind was more noticeable with the X41 processor, so trebles and basses were turned up.  The other thing that happened is that it was more obvious where in 3D space a lot of the sounds were.  And Dolby Atmos was a traditionally 2D system.   But it had better effects, both in terms of the front-back and left-right, and all postions in between, but also High-low was well conveyed.

In both those respects, either the old Turtle Beach Processors specifiically are optimized, or if TB uses just a Standard 5.1->HP converter, just like Triton, their biggest competitor at the time, and all the other 5.1 Headphone processor makers, then Dolby Atmos Headphones is WORSE than Dolby 5.1 Headphones.  You think with more chanels and obects of sound, the 3D effects would be more accurate than Dolby 5.1 Headphones.

It’s actually less accurate.  Everything seems centered in both treble-bass as well as 3D location. I’m not saying it’s inaccurate, it’s just WAY MORE SUBTLE.

I remember Turtle Beach in their promotional videos for the X41 saying they add reverb and echo and uses those cues to more accurately convey direction.  First is that unique to Turtle Beach, or did all gaming headset makers for the 360 and PS3 use echo and reverb to increase the sense of direction?

If everyone did, then if Triton 360s are also as direcitonally and treble/bass heightened as TBs when why did everyone move to in-hardware headphone decoding of either Windows Sonic or Dolby Atmos Headhone, both of which are too "centered" to accruately pick out the directions.  Was it cheaper? (yes)  Is there really any difference between headphones? (not much)

If Turtle Beach did have a proprietary system for "audio MSG", then why did they abandon it, especially when no one else had it?  Even though I love the X41 effect for movies on Blu Ray and (I assume once we upgrade the TV) 4K, do some movie watcher want less artificial sounding sounds?  But even if Movies watcher want the more "natural" low bass, low treble, centered directionally sound, gamers don’t love it.  They want to get any advantage they legally can get.  When I was considering headphones for my movies upstairs and games downstairs, I asked my good friend, Jamal "Zophar3221" Nickens, if headphones are a good substitute for communal headphones in rooms that are hard to balance right (Our TV installer said it would cost $10k in labor to balance the room right for surround in 2008.  I figured if Headphones are always centered around you and enclosed, then it shouldn’t matter what the room shape or size is.)  My main question was, were there convincing 3D positioning in sound effect in a Triton, the OFFICIAL headphone sponsor of a show he was on WCG Ultimate Gamer Season 1.  And he told me it’s better direcitonally and in picking up small sound cues than a traditional, "communal" sound system.  Just make sure it says surround.

I would have went with Triton, but a Turtle Beach was less expensive than a Triton which used 7 actual mini-speakers, compared to TB’s 2 track surround.   TB argues you have 2 ears, and 2 speakers are all you need to get convincing surround sound.   I read reviews, and they said 2-speaker virtual surround works just as well as 7.1 actual speakers, just cheaper and less likely to break.  Another neat side effect is that you can harness the 5.1 surround remixed for 2 speakers, and take those 2 tracks and send the to another headphone, or send them to a DVD recorder, or an MP3 recorder, and the surround processing is preserved in the 2 tracks, even recorded on a 2-track DVD, MPS, or Video Game streamer.   If a game is in surround sound, I can stream it out by rerouting that 3.5 mm cable into the L/R audio ports and make the game sound surround.

I’ve got a demonstration of a 5 minute scene from "Ready Player One" 2D pack-in within a 3D/2D multipack.  I chose the movie becuase it has both a Dolby Atmos track and a DTS 7.1 track.  I was originally testing if there is a difference between keeping native Dolby or translating DTS to Dolby.  The scene I chose was the first car race scene.   I played it twice, and recorded the Dobly and DTS playthrough as selected on the Blu Ray.

Both sounded underwhelming.  That’s wehen I noticed I was using Dolby Atmos Headphone app, so I tried both again using the downmixed Dolby 5.1 from both an Atmos and DTS 7.1 source through the X41’s processor, and Both the Native Dolby AND the DTS translated into Dobly both sound better.

I’d like you to take the test yourself.   If someone can tell me an audio sharing site,   (I Would do YouTube, but they require motion pictures.  You could cheat by making a still, but putting up a single picture throughout the audio is a pain in video editing, even on iMovie.) I’ll post the 4 audio clips label them as "Surround headphone test. Listen in over-the-ear headphones for the best effect.  Do not process sound."   Make them private to only people who see this post, and I’ll "shuffle them" and see what other people think.

I have enough bandwidth trouble trying to send audio outbound, sending a video compounds it, so if someone knows a good audio sharing website that doesn’t propagate on search engines, please tell me.  I only get 400 kb/s second.  How long would it take to send 4 HQ MP3 Stereo files of 5 minutes apiece?

I did notice you can upload attachments, but apparently not .MP3’s.  If someone knows how to upload an MP3 here, let me know. Also why wouldn’t an audio enthusiast’s website like head-fi.org allow MP3 uploads? You think MP3s are the perfect material to share audio comparisons.  But apparently, I can’t post MP3s!


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## tripletopper

Seriously, how do i upload MP3s to head-fi.org ?  You'd yhink that a website about headsets would allow mp3 uploads.  Has anyone fixed that?


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## originalsnuffy

I just noticed that the latest from Robert Plant / Alison Kraus showed as being available in Dolby Atmos on Amazon Music HD on my iphone.

I hadn't seen that option before on the iphone.   Is Amazon finally opening up Dolby Atmos to more than its one proprietary higher end Echo speaker?


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## originalsnuffy

tripletopper said:


> Seriously, how do i upload MP3s to head-fi.org ?  You'd yhink that a website about headsets would allow mp3 uploads.  Has anyone fixed that?


 I imagine you could post a link to a short excerpt of  a song.   But this site correctly frowns on anything that might smell like copyright infringement.


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