# Loki Mini Impressions



## CarlosUnchained

*HIGH QUALITY TONE CONTROL*​


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## mattking52

Looking forward to the discussion!  Ordered mine today to add to my Vali 2 + Modi 2U setup in my office at work.  Nice, inexpensive experiment... if all goes well, I'll look to get the "non-Mini" Loki once it comes out for home...


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## mattking52

Ugh, it's such a small thing, but I really wish the Magni and Modi logos lined up with the Loki logo.  Same thing on my Freya and Gungnir MB, since the Freya sits atop the Gungnir, but again... suuuuuuper picky, trivial thing.

Okay, rant is over.  Still looking forward to playing with this thing!


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## Fox2twenty

CarlosUnchained said:


> *HIGH QUALITY TONE CONTROL*​



In 4 impressions


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## FLTWS (Sep 26, 2017)

mattking52 said:


> Looking forward to the discussion!  Ordered mine today to add to my Vali 2 + Modi 2U setup in my office at work.  Nice, inexpensive experiment... if all goes well, I'll look to get the "non-Mini" Loki once it comes out for home...



I ordered mine today as well. After re- reading Jason's chapter on tone controls I was like, "Schiit, yes". Seemed to me like somewhere in the 80's suddenly the gear I was auditioning no longer had tone controls so those 70's and 80's DG recordings were gonna sound bass lite and bright and I'd just have to let my ears recondition to the new sound of flat. Philips, Decca, Columbia, RCA, Mercury, Turnabout, Telefunken, EMI and on and on all had uniquely different sound traits. It also seems that in some cases truly great quality recordings turn out to be not the best performances available.

Hell, even concert halls have different sound qualities, at least the 10 I've been to over my lifetime. Anybody from Philadelphia who's ears were tuned to sound of the old Academy of Music (warm, lush, powerful, and comfy like that shag carpeting I would squish my toes around in during the 60's and 70's at home) where I spent most of my time would likely have noticed differences right off the bat when the new Kimmel Center first opened.

I think I'm gonna have fun and get more enjoyment having Loki available to throw in the mix (or not) when I want. Also curious to see if I can effect any improvement to my phones in conjunction with the different recordings. And all for only $149.


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## ev13wt (Sep 26, 2017)

mattking52 said:


> Ugh, it's such a small thing, but I really wish the Magni and Modi logos lined up with the Loki logo.  Same thing on my Freya and Gungnir MB, since the Freya sits atop the Gungnir, but again... suuuuuuper picky, trivial thing.
> 
> Okay, rant is over.  Still looking forward to playing with this thing!




Not trivial. Seriously they need to get their schiit together.

I also expect more data, I'm like: "Q?" "0.7???"


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## ahmadfaizadnan

mattking52 said:


> Looking forward to the discussion!  Ordered mine today to add to my Vali 2 + Modi 2U setup in my office at work.  Nice, inexpensive experiment... if all goes well, I'll look to get the "non-Mini" Loki once it comes out for home...



I am really looking forward to the "non-Mini" Loki


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## ev13wt (Sep 26, 2017)

The only reason (with speaker) to shoot for flat is to have a real "base reference".

Then, be creative. Its the point of music.

*EQ to taste from a base reference!*


Edit: if anyone quotes this and mentions room treatment, please swipe left.


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## ev13wt

This is your audiophile eq guys. Just look at the frequecies selected and think.

/thread


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## mattking52 (Sep 26, 2017)

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> I am really looking forward to the "non-Mini" Loki



I know Mike (baldr) has expressed admiration for the Cello Audio Palette in the past on these forums, and how a companion Cello SS amp had influenced a few things they did at Sumo/Theta ... I wouldn't be surprised if they are shooting for delivering something of that caliber at a wonderfully "Schiity" price point.   (reference: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wha...n-robert-hunter.784471/page-289#post-13666104)

What a beautiful EQ that Cello was, though...


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## ahmadfaizadnan

mattking52 said:


> I know Mike (baldr) has expressed admiration for the Cello Audio Palette in the past on these forums, and how a companion Cello SS amp had influenced a few things they did at Sumo/Theta ... I wouldn't be surprised if they are shooting for delivering something of that caliber at a wonderfully "Schiity" price point.   (reference: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wha...n-robert-hunter.784471/page-289#post-13666104)
> 
> What a beautiful EQ that Cello was, though...



They definitely will. It's just a matter of time


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## mattking52

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> They definitely will. It's just a matter of time



As long as this thing sells, I think you're probably right!


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## ahmadfaizadnan

mattking52 said:


> As long as this thing sells, I think you're probably right!



I think I am just gonna get the loki mini and get the non mini when it is out later


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## mattking52

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> I think I am just gonna get the loki mini and get the non mini when it is out later


That's what I did also.  Going to try it out in my work headphone rig and in my home system, and will then get the non-mini when it comes out.  I really like the idea of high-quality tone controls.  Always have.


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## CJG888

Now a really cool product (albeit with a limited market) would be a phono stage with various EQ curves, not just RIAA. This enables early LPs to be reproduced correctly, as not all labels used RIAA. I believe Graham Slee used to make something like this (maybe they still do).


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## ev13wt

CJG888 said:


> Now a really cool product (albeit with a limited market) would be a phono stage with various EQ curves, not just RIAA. This enables early LPs to be reproduced correctly, as not all labels used RIAA. I believe Graham Slee used to make something like this (maybe they still do).



I like it! RIAA in DSP. And all others.
This ties in to my ADC directly in the cartridge - optical out/digital something out idea.


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## Charente

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> I think I am just gonna get the loki mini and get the non mini when it is out later



Loki Non Mini = Loki Maxi (perhaps) ??


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## ahmadfaizadnan

Charente said:


> Loki Non Mini = Loki Maxi (perhaps) ??



Or Loki ii


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## Talisker90

I'd be interested to see how it pairs with turntables.


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## FLTWS

It's all good, placed my order yesterday afternoon.

Your order at Schiit Audio has shipped!


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## alchemist23

Sorry to sound stupid but I've just chanced upon this discussion. What is the Loki " maxi" gonna comprise?


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## FLTWS

alchemist23 said:


> Sorry to sound stupid but I've just chanced upon this discussion. What is the Loki " maxi" gonna comprise?



No one has any idea yet (maybe not even Jason or Mike). If "mini" doesn't get the sales to show the interest / demand for such a product it won't warrant developing a more sophisticated version so there won't be a "maxi".


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## Fox2twenty




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## Topspin70

*Fist Pumping* Impressions! Impressions!


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## Mkoll

alchemist23 said:


> Sorry to sound stupid but I've just chanced upon this discussion. What is the Loki " maxi" gonna comprise?


Hopefully balanced output and more EQ knobs at the very least.


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## mattking52

Mkoll said:


> Hopefully balanced output and more EQ knobs at the very least.



Yeah my guess would be the same, with something very similar to (or the same as) the Jotunheim current-feedback differential output stage.


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## Left Channel

*The lineup: Magni 2U + Loki Mini + Modi 2U. *

I am tempted to order a Magni 3 just to get a matching finish. And a Modi Multibit while I'm at it. Because Schiit.





Just kidding. They look great together in their final position. In fact I usually push them a little farther back under the shelf.




In addition to those very visible (and paintable) notches, the knobs have strong center detents. You will feel those. 



Actual listening impressions will take a while. This is going to be fun.


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## FLTWS (Sep 29, 2017)

Looks great as is. Glad to hear about the center detents, now I'm not concerned about the graphics. Mr. FedX should be here tomorrow with mine.


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## Kn1nJa

So a bit of a confession here, I am a bit of a basshead. I love to have really accurate audio when listening to most genres, but nothing is quite like the awesomeness that is (good) electronic music with super heavy bass. The first thing I did when I got my Loki (about 15 minutes ago) was turn the first knob all the way up and turn on some Deadmau5 (While 1>2). Loki took a setup that is pretty darn awesome (Bifrost multibit with gen5 + Lyr2 + Audeze EL8) to pure eargasm. The clarity at even crazy EQ levels is astonishing. I'm being a bit modest with the volume on the Lyr2, but even so there is no distortion. The music is smooth as silk but with all the extra bass I love with this genre. I equate this new setup to the subwoofer I have in my car. The regular speakers are all pretty awesome (Hertz Hi Energy), but the sub just adds that extra bit of amazing to electronic (and I can turn it down with its own knob too). Adding Loki was like adding a subwoofer to my headphone system. If you are a basshead, you need this.


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## lordskh

Left Channel said:


> *The lineup: Magni 2U + Loki Mini + Modi 2U. *
> 
> In addition to those very visible (and paintable) notches, the knobs have strong center detents. You will feel those.



I really wish that they started doing knobs like this earlier. The notch on my Asgard 2 is basically impossible to see with my glasses off.


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## MOFOfunk

lordskh said:


> I really wish that they started doing knobs like this earlier. The notch on my Asgard 2 is basically impossible to see with my glasses off.


Another way of phrasing what I believe you’re saying: “I’m so happy that Schiit is listening to their customers and have made the pot setting more obvious for eyes and fingers. This has inspired me to get my triangular file out and cut a groove in the volume pot on my Asgard2. I’ll then mark it up with a stylish high viz nailpolis and enjoy my A2 even more”.


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## lordskh

MOFOfunk said:


> Another way of phrasing what I believe you’re saying: “I’m so happy that Schiit is listening to their customers and have made the pot setting more obvious for eyes and fingers. This has inspired me to get my triangular file out and cut a groove in the volume pot on my Asgard2. I’ll then mark it up with a stylish high viz nailpolis and enjoy my A2 even more”.


Yeah, all we need now are front power switches.
Also, good idea with the triangular file. I can't believe I haven't thought of that before.


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## Fox2twenty

Kn1nJa said:


> So a bit of a confession here, I am a bit of a basshead. I love to have really accurate audio when listening to most genres, but nothing is quite like the awesomeness that is (good) electronic music with super heavy bass. The first thing I did when I got my Loki (about 15 minutes ago) was turn the first knob all the way up and turn on some Deadmau5 (While 1>2). Loki took a setup that is pretty darn awesome (Bifrost multibit with gen5 + Lyr2 + Audeze EL8) to pure eargasm. The clarity at even crazy EQ levels is astonishing. I'm being a bit modest with the volume on the Lyr2, but even so there is no distortion. The music is smooth as silk but with all the extra bass I love with this genre. I equate this new setup to the subwoofer I have in my car. The regular speakers are all pretty awesome (Hertz Hi Energy), but the sub just adds that extra bit of amazing to electronic (and I can turn it down with its own knob too). Adding Loki was like adding a subwoofer to my headphone system. If you are a basshead, you need this.


Loki = subwoofer headphones..

This is high praise. I assume the same would be true for turning cans into treble cannons?


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## MOFOfunk

@lordskh Personally I’m ok with the pots on my Jotunhim and Saga. But that’s what I would do if I wasn’t. To make it easier and less noia I would probably remove the pot first by losening the small allen pinheadscrew. 

Really looking forward to more impressions of the mighty Loke mini so I can look even more forward to add it to the pile. 
SubEffect sounds fantastic. A HIGH praise indeed!


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## lordskh

@MOFOfunk 
Yeah that's probably a good idea


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## Left Channel

lordskh said:


> I really wish that they started doing knobs like this earlier. The notch on my Asgard 2 is basically impossible to see with my glasses off.



The detents are wonderful. But even with your glasses on, the notches may not be perfect. I caught a good photo angle before.



 

On another company's product I applied some Testors enamel paint into similar notches with a very thin brush. Works great.


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## twiceboss

Kn1nJa said:


> So a bit of a confession here, I am a bit of a basshead. I love to have really accurate audio when listening to most genres, but nothing is quite like the awesomeness that is (good) electronic music with super heavy bass. The first thing I did when I got my Loki (about 15 minutes ago) was turn the first knob all the way up and turn on some Deadmau5 (While 1>2). Loki took a setup that is pretty darn awesome (Bifrost multibit with gen5 + Lyr2 + Audeze EL8) to pure eargasm. The clarity at even crazy EQ levels is astonishing. I'm being a bit modest with the volume on the Lyr2, but even so there is no distortion. The music is smooth as silk but with all the extra bass I love with this genre. I equate this new setup to the subwoofer I have in my car. The regular speakers are all pretty awesome (Hertz Hi Energy), but the sub just adds that extra bit of amazing to electronic (and I can turn it down with its own knob too). Adding Loki was like adding a subwoofer to my headphone system. If you are a basshead, you need this.


That’s what i want to hear. No distortion even with crazy gain eq. I ordered it


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## KewlMunky

I have had very minimal time with mine so far, but was liking what I heard. Set the 20Hz knob almost all the way up and turned down the 20KHz knob a bit. I've absolutely loved my HE-6, but always felt the treble was a little hot, and being it's an open back headphone I have been wanting more bass. I think I will get there with the Loki


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## misteral201103

Ordered mine! Almost ordered the Magni 3 as well, but figured I was ok with ifi iCan SE. Hope the Loki doesn't get stuck at customs!! Stopped, I can handle. Stuck would...suck.


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## Richsvt

Kn1nJa said:


> So a bit of a confession here, I am a bit of a basshead. I love to have really accurate audio when listening to most genres, but nothing is quite like the awesomeness that is (good) electronic music with super heavy bass. The first thing I did when I got my Loki (about 15 minutes ago) was turn the first knob all the way up and turn on some Deadmau5 (While 1>2). Loki took a setup that is pretty darn awesome (Bifrost multibit with gen5 + Lyr2 + Audeze EL8) to pure eargasm. The clarity at even crazy EQ levels is astonishing. I'm being a bit modest with the volume on the Lyr2, but even so there is no distortion. The music is smooth as silk but with all the extra bass I love with this genre. I equate this new setup to the subwoofer I have in my car. The regular speakers are all pretty awesome (Hertz Hi Energy), but the sub just adds that extra bit of amazing to electronic (and I can turn it down with its own knob too). Adding Loki was like adding a subwoofer to my headphone system. If you are a basshead, you need this.



I am very interested in hearing what this can do. I have almost the same set-up, using Bimby and Lyr 2, so I am curious to see how you stacked them. I am very limited on space and the Loki could almost sit on top of the Lyr but would cover some of the vents near the tubes. Concerned that the heat might be too much for it. Just curious of you could post a pict to let me see how you have arranged them.  Would be great if we could see some future iterations where it would match the case size of the larger offerings...


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## Kn1nJa

Richsvt said:


> I am very interested in hearing what this can do. I have almost the same set-up, using Bimby and Lyr 2, so I am curious to see how you stacked them. I am very limited on space and the Loki could almost sit on top of the Lyr but would cover some of the vents near the tubes. Concerned that the heat might be too much for it. Just curious of you could post a pict to let me see how you have arranged them.  Would be great if we could see some future iterations where it would match the case size of the larger offerings...



My setup is not elegant at all. I have my Bifrost and Lyr 2 sitting on a little table next to my couch. Loki is just kind of sitting by itself on the couch arm. It works pretty well. I couldn't really find a better place for Loki in the quick 5 minutes I gave it (I really wanted to listen to it).

Also yes, the bypass switch is on. I was testing it out before I was done for the night last night.



Spoiler: Large image


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## Richsvt

thanks, I guess I'm trying to justify the purchase. If it would fit nice and neatly in my set-up, it would be a slam dunk, but I think it may end up being awkward in placement and hard to access...ok then. Decisions....


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## MOFOfunk

I


Left Channel said:


> The detents are wonderful. But even with your glasses on, the notches may not be perfect. I caught a good photo angle before.
> 
> 
> On another company's product I applied some Testors enamel paint into similar notches with a very thin brush. Works great.


I like what you did there. Running the little schiits side by side gives a pretty sleek setup.


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## sling5s

The Loki works great!!!
HD800 Recessed Mids Solved: add a little midbass and mids and it's perfect!


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## EmiG310

I've had Loki two days now, and I have to say this is exactly what I needed. I just got the Mr Speakers AEON a month ago and coming from the Oppo PM-3 I loved the detail of the AEON but I missed the bass so much. No longer! Loki mini is awesome. Stereo and sound stage sounds just as great as ever on the modi multibit, and now I have bass again. The variable Q is a very innovative approach to EQ too. on the AEON I was able to remove the inserts, and I have the 20hz knob at almost 3/4ths and the 400hz knob at about 2/3rd. Flat on the two rightmost knobs. Completely fixes the bass hole in the AEONS. I'm as happy as a pig in schiit! 

Now they need to make a Tube Buffer version that matches the Bifrost line


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## FLTWS

Mine just got dropped off. Wow! Is this thing small. I never could tell from the pictures. LOL. You could put 6 of these into my Jotunheim case.
Finding a spot is going to be a non event it's so tiny.
My only concern is I'm going to have to tape it or weight it down as I'm sure the weight of the RCA's will not leave it in place.
I also note that the knobs all extend out to different lengths but appear to be within say a 1/8th inch spread of each other.


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## sling5s

Be nice to get more Knobs. 
Bass: 100 addition to (20)(400)
Mids: 4 addition (2) 
Treble: 16 addition to (8)


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## twiceboss

sling5s said:


> The Loki works great!!!
> HD800 Recessed Mids Solved: add a little midbass and mids and it's perfect!


I wanna add bass and a tad mids and a tad reducing highs. I will stick to Heron 5!


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## Fox2twenty

sling5s said:


> The Loki works great!!!
> HD800 Recessed Mids Solved: add a little midbass and mids and it's perfect!


Great news. Clear?


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## TJ Max (Sep 29, 2017)

It was a lot smaller than I thought it would be also. But I think its a great addition to my system. I needed the control for low and high volumes, and it improved the sound of an album I have that oddly has a huge dip in the mid section.
And I'm using the Loki Mini with full size speakers., they're not just for headphones. I just wish it had more inputs.


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## Fox2twenty

TJ Max said:


> It was a lot smaller than I thought it would be also. But I think its a great addition to my system. I needed the control for low and high volumes, and it improved the sound of an album I have that oddly has a huge dip in the mid section.
> And I'm using the Loki Mini with full size speakers., they're not just for headphones. I just wish it had more inputs.


Woah cool. So you mostly use it with loud speakers?


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## TJ Max

Fox2twenty said:


> Woah cool. So you mostly use it with loud speakers?



Yes,  they allow me the control I need for my Wharfedale Diamond 250. For loud music I can balance out the bass to prevent too much boomines, and at times when I need to listen at low volumes I can adjust the bass and mids higher to get more details. It works out fine for me. And of coarse I have headphones too.


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## FastAndClean

i am waiting for loki to come to Norway, we have only one schiit distributor here, i hope they will have it soon


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## Tuneslover

FastAndClean said:


> i am waiting for loki to come to Norway, we have only one schiit distributor here, i hope they will have it soon



Man you'd think that since Schiit is using Norse (mostly Norwegian) names for their products that they'd give you guys preferential treatment...


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## FastAndClean

Tuneslover said:


> Man you'd think that since Schiit is using Norse (mostly Norwegian) names for their products that they'd give you guys preferential treatment...


We have only ice here, winter is coming.


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## ahmadfaizadnan

TJ Max said:


> It was a lot smaller than I thought it would be also. But I think its a great addition to my system. I needed the control for low and high volumes, and it improved the sound of an album I have that oddly has a huge dip in the mid section.
> And I'm using the Loki Mini with full size speakers., they're not just for headphones. I just wish it had more inputs.



I wish they have more inputs too. I plan to use it with spring KTE > loki > ECP DSHA-0 but since it only has rca, I might gonna use it for other amp first.


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## RatFarm

Pulled the trigger on a Loki tonight. I can always use it in my computer audio setup if it doesn’t work out for headphone use.


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## Topspin70

EmiG310 said:


> I've had Loki two days now, and I have to say this is exactly what I needed. I just got the Mr Speakers AEON a month ago and coming from the Oppo PM-3 I loved the detail of the AEON but I missed the bass so much. No longer! Loki mini is awesome. Stereo and sound stage sounds just as great as ever on the modi multibit, and now I have bass again. The variable Q is a very innovative approach to EQ too. on the AEON I was able to remove the inserts, and I have the 20hz knob at almost 3/4ths and the 400hz knob at about 2/3rd. Flat on the two rightmost knobs. Completely fixes the bass hole in the AEONS. I'm as happy as a pig in schiit!
> 
> Now they need to make a Tube Buffer version that matches the Bifrost line



Variable Q? How does that work? I must have missed that mention in the website or earlier post.


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## TJ Max

Topspin70 said:


> Variable Q? How does that work? I must have missed that mention in the website or earlier post.



I think what it means is that when you increase or decrease a knob the octave around a centered frequency increases, but as you keep turning it the bandwidth narrows so that it's more focused on that centered frequency.


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## Roy G. Biv

Mine came yesterday.  My first piece of Schiit gear, btw.  Bought it to tame a very bright speaker/AVR combo (yes, I'm using it with an AVR).  Works as advertised with no discernible loss of sound quality.  Did have to use a hole punch and some blue tape to cover up the LED.  Bright!


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## ctaxxxx (Oct 1, 2017)

Is it possible to use the Loki without an amp? Say I connect my source to the Loki, then output using an adapter (like this, but preferably 1/4th) that I can plug my headphones directly into.


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## Kn1nJa

ctaxxxx said:


> Is it possible to use the Loki without an amp? Say I connect my source to the Loki, then output using an adapter (like this, but preferably 1/4th) that I can plug my headphones directly into.



I think it depends on your source and what kind of signal it's outputting. However, I am not an audio engineer so you should probably take anything I say with a grain of salt. Maybe you could post over in @Jason Stoddard 's thread and get a good answer (he's usually pretty awesome about replying there).

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...f-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up.701900/


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## Left Channel

Topspin70 said:


> Variable Q? How does that work? I must have missed that mention in the website or earlier post.


Put another way (in the manual), turning a knob "has a gradual effect when first turned off of the center position, for subtle adjustments".


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## Roy G. Biv

ctaxxxx said:


> Is it possible to use the Loki without an amp? Say I connect my source to the Loki, then output using an adapter (like this, but preferably 1/4th) that I can plug my headphones directly into.



Asking Schiit/Jason is a good route, but I suspect you'll need an amp if for no other reason than having volume control.


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## ctaxxxx (Oct 1, 2017)

Thanks. Keep forgetting I can contact them directly. Been relying on the forum too much.

I would be using these with a dap, so I think I'm good with volume control. It's not necessary, but I do always prefer a shorter chain. Or a dap with a global EQ on all apps...

*Update:* They said no. So amp is required.


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## misteral201103

ctaxxxx said:


> Thanks. Keep forgetting I can contact them directly. Been relying on the forum too much.
> 
> I would be using these with a dap, so I think I'm good with volume control. It's not necessary, but I do always prefer a shorter chain. Or a dap with a global EQ on all apps...
> 
> *Update:* They said no. So amp is required.



Magni 3 maybe? Only $99...


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## BWV656

Do you hear any channel imbalance or noise as you turn those knobs? (like all those cheap volume pots found in Fulla, Sys, Magni....)


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## EmiG310

Topspin70 said:


> Variable Q? How does that work? I must have missed that mention in the website or earlier post.



The more gain/attenuation you apply to a band, the narrower the adjustment band becomes.


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## Left Channel (Nov 11, 2017)

BWV656 said:


> Do you hear any channel imbalance or noise as you turn those knobs? (like all those cheap volume pots found in Fulla, Sys, Magni....)



No we don't, because they're something entirely different. See the section on *Nonconstant-Q Active EQ *in Jason's 2017 Chapter 13 post.

As for the Magni pot, I found a solution here on Head-Fi and now I never turn the volume down that low.


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## RatFarm

Does Loki come with RCA jumper cables? I didn't order any so I hope so.


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## notfitforpublic

RatFarm said:


> Does Loki come with RCA jumper cables? I didn't order any so I hope so.


Nope. It does not.


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## RatFarm

Bummer. Thanks for the reply!


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## mattking52

Received mine last Thursday and finally got a chance to play with it a bit over the weekend.  My first impression is that this is a really, really nice tone control -- especially for the price.

I tried it in two configurations:
1.  Between my Gungnir MB and Asgard 2 amp feeding LCD-3 cans
2.  Between my Freya preamp and my Conrad-Johnson Premier 11A tube power amp in my 2-ch/speaker setup.

I was able to tweak the knobs to bring out a bit more sparkle in the LCD-3 than I'm used to (even though I love *LOVE* Class A amplification, I think the Asgard 2 is not the best amp for the planar LCD-3s -- I think they could use a little more power to bring out their best.  In fact, I know this to be true based on demoing my cans with the MJ2 AND Lyr 2 at the Schiitr, and hearing what I had been missing with the Asgard 2.  The MJ2 is my next upgrade).

In the two-channel setup, being able to reduce some of the mid-bass energy did wonders for my speaker/room configuration.  I have a huge pair of JBL 4344 studio monitors, which are currently sitting on the floor (they're tall enough that the tweeters are at ear level when i'm in my listening position).  I've yet to build some short stands for them, which is supposed to improve the mid-bass response, so this really was a treat to hear this known shortcoming in my space corrected for the first time!

I look forward to playing with this more, and REALLY hope this thing sells so that an even higher-end tone control with finer adjustment range comes out in the not-too-distant future... if it does, I will definitely be buying it.


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## twiceboss

I turned the third knob for HD800 and it is definitely a must have for HD800 user to bring the mids


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## FLTWS (Oct 3, 2017)

twiceboss said:


> I turned the third knob for HD800 and it is definitely a must have for HD800 user to bring the mids



Agreed.
I found a small twitch on the bass knob to just 1:30 but no more than 2:00 resolves any issues I had with the bottom end response of my HD800.
I hear no difference at all between bypass and all knobs set to 0, the bypass is completely transparent to my ears.
The only thing I'm not clear on at this point is the soundstage depth illusion business, but so far have only used it with my Jotunheim which is a bit forward by itself compared to my MJ2 or Ragnarok.
Imaging is stable as ever with Loki engaged.
It works as advertised.
Knobs are a little  too small and too close together for my size paws.
However, for $149.00 it's a killer little devise.
I'm ready for a grown-up version with balanced I/O, maybe a few more frequencies as well, and I'll take it in an MJ2 sized case please.
Thank you.


----------



## twiceboss

FLTWS said:


> Agreed.
> I found a small twitch on the bass knob to just 1:30 but no more than 2:00 resolves any issues I had with the bottom end response of my HD800.
> I hear no difference at all between bypass and all knobs set to 0, the bypass is completely transparent to my ears.
> The only thing I'm not clear on at this point is the soundstage depth illusion business, but so far have only used it with my Jotunheim which is a bit forward by itself compared to my MJ2 or Ragnarok.
> ...


Yes, i do turn a lil bit for 40Hz, and a bit the second knob. Third is a must but varies according to songs cuz it can be too bright. Also, i tame a tad for the forth knob. That's all for now. Hope one day there is a balance.


----------



## Topspin70

TJ Max said:


> I think what it means is that when you increase or decrease a knob the octave around a centered frequency increases, but as you keep turning it the bandwidth narrows so that it's more focused on that centered frequency.





Left Channel said:


> Put another way (in the manual), turning a knob "has a gradual effect when first turned off of the center position, for subtle adjustments".





EmiG310 said:


> The more gain/attenuation you apply to a band, the narrower the adjustment band becomes.



Thanks everyone. That's a well thought feature, maintains a smooth curve, yet not affecting other freq bands when pushing hard on a certain range. Won't have the control like I do with Roon's parametric EQ but that's a good thing with less to fiddle and tweak incessantly. 

Just wondering is there something built-in to prevent clipping, or does that only happens with digital EQ. (I read the manual and website before asking this time.)


----------



## Left Channel

Topspin70 said:


> Thanks everyone. That's a well thought feature, maintains a smooth curve, yet not affecting other freq bands when pushing hard on a certain range. Won't have the control like I do with Roon's parametric EQ but that's a good thing with less to fiddle and tweak incessantly.
> 
> Just wondering is there something built-in to prevent clipping, or does that only happens with digital EQ. (I read the manual and website before asking this time.)



No clipping! See Mike's post/rant here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wha...n-robert-hunter.784471/page-322#post-13748153

Also no Clippy!


----------



## Fox2twenty

Left Channel said:


> No clipping! See Mike's post/rant here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wha...n-robert-hunter.784471/page-322#post-13748153
> 
> Also no Clippy!


Great clip art, lol


----------



## SLC1966

+1 MJ2 sized case with balanced I/O


----------



## KewlMunky

Left Channel said:


> No clipping! See Mike's post/rant here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wha...n-robert-hunter.784471/page-322#post-13748153
> 
> Also no Clippy!



Quote from that post:

"The huge advantage of the analog equalizer is that it absolutely takes NO resolution away from the signal. That is huge. The main disadvantage is that if the adjustment is large, such as a 20db boost, then the headroom of the downstream power amp may clip at higher levels. YMMV. Most Schiit amps have power."

So unless Loki is not capable of around a 20db boost, it won't clip.


----------



## Left Channel

KewlMunky said:


> Quote from that post:
> 
> "The huge advantage of the analog equalizer is that it absolutely takes NO resolution away from the signal. That is huge. The main disadvantage is that if the adjustment is large, such as a 20db boost, then the headroom of the downstream power amp may clip at higher levels. YMMV. Most Schiit amps have power."
> 
> So unless Loki is not capable of around a 20db boost, it won't clip.



Thanks. It's not capable of a 20 dB boost, so it won't clip. From Jason's post introducing the Loki Mini: 

_You need to turn the pot almost 30 degrees for the first 1dB of change, and, as noted before, it’s a broad change to start, then peaking at the band center. The degree of change accelerates as you go more off-center of the pot, topping at +/-12dB for the 20 and 8K bands, and +/-6dB for the 400 and 2K bands._

*And no Clippy!*


----------



## RatFarm

Received the Loki today. Tiny tiny thing but well built. I only wish the power light was dimmer! Initial impressions are good. Controls are smooth action and provide just enough adjustment to the frequency bands to be useful but not overkill. I have the 20Hz knob at about the 3 o'clock position and the 8kHz set to 11 o'clock to tame the treble on the T1. Well worth the $150.


----------



## Fox2twenty

RatFarm said:


> Received the Loki today. Tiny tiny thing but well built. I only wish the power light was dimmer! Initial impressions are good. Controls are smooth action and provide just enough adjustment to the frequency bands to be useful but not overkill. I have the 20Hz knob at about the 3 o'clock position and the 8kHz set to 11 o'clock to tame the treble on the T1. Well worth the $150.


Dang, it looks tiny on your other gear.  nice impressions.


----------



## BWV656

Can you turn off that extremely bright LED?


----------



## RatFarm

Nope. May have to use silver tape to cover it.


----------



## eyoon

Search for Light Dims on Amazon. Or grab a hole punch and some painter's tape.


----------



## BWV656

Thank you so much! I usually use blutac for covering bright LEDs. I mean I am getting Loki but It's a shame they decide to place that ugly LED light there. Those LEDs are so annoying, especially at night.


----------



## Tuneslover

RatFarm said:


> Received the Loki today. Tiny tiny thing but well built. I only wish the power light was dimmer! Initial impressions are good. Controls are smooth action and provide just enough adjustment to the frequency bands to be useful but not overkill. I have the 20Hz knob at about the 3 o'clock position and the 8kHz set to 11 o'clock to tame the treble on the T1. Well worth the $150.



Firth of Fifth!!  One of my favourite Genesis tunes.  Love the BASS.


----------



## Marlowe

BWV656 said:


> Thank you so much! I usually use blutac for covering bright LEDs. I mean I am getting Loki but It's a shame they decide to place that ugly LED light there. Those LEDs are so annoying, especially at night.



I assume it's the same LED that I have on all my other Schiit gear. When I use them for movies/TV I am sitting right next to several of them in a dark room and they don't bother me one bit. And I am pretty sensitive to such things; I went nuts until I could block the myriad of green LEDs on the Verizon Fios equipment sitting right behind my TV.


----------



## deutschemark

Just received my Loki. Running Nexus 6p(USB Audio Player Pro) >Bimby>Loki>Jotenheim(balanced) >Mrspeakers Aeon Closed. I compared the Loki to the Parametric EQ in USB APP that I've  been using for many months now. The bass seems to have a decent amount more texture and detail.  The song I used was Jay Z  "Moonlight" off of 4:44. It was a very satisfying sub-bass coming through! I have a crazy diverse musical collection and has been super fun being able to adjust for all the various recording styles with the Loki. It's a keeper for me. An added plus is that I can run everything bit perfect now.


----------



## deutschemark

eyoon said:


> Search for Light Dims on Amazon. Or grab a hole punch and some painter's tape.


+1 Light Dims rock!!


----------



## Fox2twenty

deutschemark said:


> +1 Light Dims rock!!


Interesting.


----------



## wingsounds13

deutschemark said:


> +1 Light Dims rock!!



And if you put the round ones on edge they roll too.  

Rock and Roll.  

J.P.


----------



## KewlMunky

deutschemark said:


> +1 Light Dims rock!!



Another +1

Just had some arrive this week. Used them on my Emotiva Monitors and my Loki Mini. I got the regular black edition ones that block out 50-80%. I didn't see at the time, but they apparently have a silver edition that can block as much as 90%.


----------



## Fox2twenty

wingsounds13 said:


> And if you put the round ones on edge they roll too.
> 
> Rock and Roll.
> 
> J.P.


Buh dum tiss!!


----------



## deutschemark

You can also double up the regular dots and they block a good amount of the light.


----------



## BWV656

eyoon said:


> Search for Light Dims on Amazon. Or grab a hole punch and some painter's tape.



Perfect. Thank you so much. That's exactly what I need. 
Haha, I guess I am not the only one bothered by these silly LEDs


----------



## Mkoll

I just got my Loki in today. The first thing I noticed is that the parts of the knob that mark where it is are off-center. The following pictures have all the knobs at the point where they click and lock into what's supposed to be the center position.


   

You can see only the far right knob is actually where it's supposed to be. Does anyone else have a problem like this?


----------



## Tuneslover

Mkoll said:


> I just got my Loki in today. The first thing I noticed is that the parts of the knob that mark where it is are off-center. The following pictures have all the knobs at the point where they click and lock into what's supposed to be the center position.
> 
> 
> 
> You can see only the far right knob is actually where it's supposed to be. Does anyone else have a problem like this?



Wow, I would have expected MUCH better workmanship than that.  Sorry about your unit, hopefully this isn't something common.


----------



## TJ Max

Mkoll said:


> I just got my Loki in today. The first thing I noticed is that the parts of the knob that mark where it is are off-center. The following pictures have all the knobs at the point where they click and lock into what's supposed to be the center position.
> 
> 
> 
> You can see only the far right knob is actually where it's supposed to be. Does anyone else have a problem like this?




I had the same situation with mine on the same knob 2k. It was an easy fix though , just turn the knob completely to the left until it stops, then apply a little pressure and over turn it, and the knob position will offset set, then bring it back to the center.


----------



## harpo1

TJ Max said:


> I had the same situation with mine on the same knob 2k. It was an easy fix though , just turn the knob completely to the left until it stops, then apply a little pressure and over turn it, and the knob position will offset set, then bring it back to the center.


I wouldn't recommend this.  You could easily damage something internally.


----------



## Tuneslover

TJ Max said:


> I had the same situation with mine on the same knob 2k. It was an easy fix though , just turn the knob completely to the left until it stops, then apply a little pressure and over turn it, and the knob position will offset set, then bring it back to the center.



I guess that's a "good to know" but seriously shouldn't there be better quality control on something so obvious.  Let's hope that the less obvious stuff isn't done so sloppily.


----------



## Astral Abyss

Mkoll said:


> I just got my Loki in today. The first thing I noticed is that the parts of the knob that mark where it is are off-center. The following pictures have all the knobs at the point where they click and lock into what's supposed to be the center position.
> 
> 
> 
> You can see only the far right knob is actually where it's supposed to be. Does anyone else have a problem like this?



Mine is the exact same way.


----------



## RatFarm

A couple of mine are very slightly off center. Didn’t notice it until it was brought up.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

Mine too actually


----------



## Astral Abyss

RatFarm said:


> A couple of mine are very slightly off center. Didn’t notice it until it was brought up.



But can you un-see it now?


----------



## RatFarm

Astral Abyss said:


> But can you un-see it now?


Yes because my knobs are all turned to how I want them. If I wanted them all straight up then I wouldn’t need the Loki.


----------



## gr8soundz

I doubt the knobs went off center during shipping but also can't image Schiit sending Lokis out without everything correctly at 12 o'clock.

Haven't ordered mine yet and don't expect absolute perfection for $150 but those knobs are the whole point of this.


----------



## Astral Abyss

gr8soundz said:


> I doubt the knobs went off center during shipping but also can't image Schiit sending Lokis out without everything correctly at 12 o'clock.
> 
> Haven't ordered mine yet and don't expect absolute perfection for $150 but those knobs are the whole point of this.



The knobs pull off the shaft quite easily.  If you were to do that on all of them, like I did, it's easy to see that the pots underneath aren't really aligned/centered that well.  It's not really something that Schiit has had to worry about before.  Who cares if a volume knob isn't quite "centered".  But this is something they're going to have to pay more attention to in the future, especially if they intend to make a Loki Uber.


----------



## Topspin70 (Oct 6, 2017)

Left Channel said:


> No clipping! See Mike's post/rant here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wha...n-robert-hunter.784471/page-322#post-13748153
> 
> Also no Clippy!



Thanks. Very interesting read. He sure has a strong opinion and not one to hold back. But this part I don't understand: "Digital equalizers SUCK. A to Ds in front, resolution loss in the middle, D to As on the ass end..." Unless we're talking vinyl players, there is no A to Ds. 

For an analog purist, Mike sure makes some great DACs.


----------



## i20bot

Hmm might have to get this for my Beyer T1 to tame some trebs.


----------



## winders

Topspin70 said:


> Thanks. Very interesting read. He sure has a strong opinion and not one to hold back. But this part I don't understand: "Digital equalizers SUCK. A to Ds in front, resolution loss in the middle, D to As on the ass end..." Unless we're talking vinyl players, there is no A to Ds.
> 
> For an analog purist, Mike sure makes some great DACs.



Being a digital guy means Mike knows better than most when a digital device is not appropriate to use compared to an analog device.


----------



## Left Channel

Topspin70 said:


> For an analog purist, Mike sure makes some great DACs.



Mike does have deep analog roots, and was even a leader of the tube revival in the '70s. But Mike is also known as "the Father of the DAC". Well, Jason calls him that anyway. Mike designed the very first standalone DAC, the Theta Digital DSPre, was the first to identify jitter, and has a long list of other analog and digital firsts attached to his name.

Obviously there were DACs before the DSPre, inside other equipment. In fact, Mike bought one of the first CD players in Japan — a year before they appeared in the US — and brought it home to tear apart, in an effort to figure out why it "really did sound like bats with clothespins on their testicles". He then set about fixing the problem. 

So yes, there's a reason we listen to him, and to his products: so we don't go bats.


----------



## Left Channel

OK, my 400 Hz knob is every-so-slightly misaligned. Thanks a _lot_ guys, now I'll never be able to un-see that. 

I do most of this by feel though, and usually set-and-forget it, on for speakers and off for headphones.


----------



## technobear

I wasn't previously into Schiit but this Loki... this changes everything.


----------



## George Taylor

Mine came today, along with the Magni3. Had the last Magni, but wanted to outs to speakers my old unit didn't have. Honestly don't care if the Loki's knobs aren't perfectly straight. As long as it doesn't affect it doing it's job. I have used digital eq in the past, but it's a bother considering I am currently using the Windows Media player. Close it down to the smaller frame, then open the eq, then open the frame back up again when done. More stupid Windows design ideas. Anyway, will use it this weekend and give sound opinions after.


----------



## EmiG310

This is a $150 dollar sonically excellent EQ. The pots have detents in them, so you can feel the true center. Would you rather pay more for straighter knobs? I'm glad the money went to the components and design and not to a more expensive assembly process that ensures the knobs are straight. Remember, $150. Not 200, not 349...


----------



## Tuneslover

EmiG310 said:


> This is a $150 dollar sonically excellent EQ. The pots have detents in them, so you can feel the true center. Would you rather pay more for straighter knobs? I'm glad the money went to the components and design and not to a more expensive assembly process that ensures the knobs are straight. Remember, $150. Not 200, not 349...



It's BASIC quality control, you're assembling it anyway, while you're at it why not just do it properly.


----------



## EmiG310

Tuneslover said:


> It's BASIC quality control, you're assembling it anyway, while you're at it why not just do it properly.



The knobs don't have set screws, they are pressed on to the shaft (not trivial to keep straight). To ensure they are straight, they would have had to use a pot with a flat on the shaft as well as set screws for the knobs, increasing price and assembly time.


----------



## Tuneslover

EmiG310 said:


> they are pressed on to the shaft (not trivial to keep straight).



I don't profess to how the knobs are installed but if they are pressed onto the shaft, as you state, then it is entirely up to the assembler to ensure the detent is at the top.  That doesn't sound that complicated to me but hey what do I know.  I mean if the knobs were of the older Magni or current Vali 2 design, then I could understand that the assembler might have a more difficult time seeing where the knob indicator is but the detents on the Loki knobs appear to be very well marked.


----------



## jnak00

If the knobs are just pressed on, can they be pulled off and reinstalled at the correct position?


----------



## JamminVMI

Well, grabbed a Loki mini at the Schittr today, brought it home, left the switch down, and cranked up the Magni 2U/Modi2U stack, grabbed the AKG K-7xxs and set out to see. Had ripped a Vienna Teng CD to ALAC, so cued it up and thought her voice was very subdued.

Got up off the couch, flipped the Loki’s switch up, adjusted the rightmost pot to about 1:15, out came her soprano, and i sat back down again, happy.

That’s exactly what I wanted from this little box. Couldn’t be happier. Tone control, who knew?

This is gonna be fun. Now, about that Magni 3...


----------



## RatFarm

Played around with the Loki more this weekend and I have nailed the perfect settings for my equipment. In a word the Loki is miraculous. The T1 is now the headphone that I always wanted. Excellent bass, perfect midrange and delicate treble. Now I wonder how an LCD would sound..... must resist.


----------



## i20bot

RatFarm said:


> Played around with the Loki more this weekend and I have nailed the perfect settings for my equipment. In a word the Loki is miraculous. The T1 is now the headphone that I always wanted. Excellent bass, perfect midrange and delicate treble. Now I wonder how an LCD would sound..... must resist.



Might have to get this for my T1 also.


----------



## CarlosUnchained

I find amusing some reactions around the Loki.
Are we pretending EQ didn't exist before this?
Have these people ever tried EQ before?

I get it's a convenient and nice sounding piece of gear, but cmon, It's nothing you couldn't do before.


----------



## technobear

CarlosUnchained said:


> I find amusing some reactions around the Loki.
> Are we pretending EQ didn't exist before this?
> Have these people ever tried EQ before?
> 
> I get it's a convenient and nice sounding piece of gear, but cmon, It's nothing you couldn't do before.



Really?

Where are all these other sub-$1000 analogue equalisers and tone controls?

Sure there's digital EQ but that's the work of the Devil. Like all forms of resampling and digital filtering, it isn't hifi.

It is extremely rare to find a tone control of any kind in the headphone space. There's iFi Audio with their oh-so-useful XBASS control. I can't think of any others off the top of my head. It seems that headphone amp manufacturers think we just don't need tone controls. Perhaps they think we all own at least three sets of headphones and switch between them depending on what we want to listen to? I'd much rather flip a switch or turn a knob thanks.

I have waited for such a long time for someone to produce what Schiit have just produced. I'm buying it and I'll buy Loki Maxi when they produce that too. I trust they are working on it already. Come on Schiit, don't do an iFi and make us wait another three years! We need it now!


----------



## CarlosUnchained (Oct 9, 2017)

technobear said:


> Really?
> 
> Where are all these other sub-$1000 analogue equalisers and tone controls?
> 
> ...




I'm not reading reactions about how noiseless and true to the source it is compared with digital EQ,
 but how X headphone now has the desired sound signature by EQing them when it's been there all the time, even if it wasn't the ideal solution.


----------



## FLTWS (Oct 9, 2017)

CarlosUnchained said:


> I'm not reading reactions about how noiseless and true to the source it is compared with digital EQ, but how X headphone now has the desired sound signature by EQing them when it's been there all the time, even if it wasn't the ideal solution.



I'm CD only and zero interest in D/L content and I suspect much of my classical music probably isn't available anyway and wasn't recorded at higher bit rates and what are these classical music D/L's sourced from, proper remasters? Early digital copies of the original analog recordings?

I also didn't want to deal with computer connectivity and noise issues I've seen so many post about. I've spent too many decades fighting with dedicated flight simulation computers to get software and hardware to function properly and I wasn't going to go thru that again to listen to my music.

Were there add-on digital equalizer boxes made and at what cost? I never investigated or heard of any.

I did post a brief comment on sound, see #75.I heard no noise or objectionable distortion but I use a light touch on the controls to not push the HP drivers into excessive non linearity, per my ears, and I make no claim to having perfect hearing. The only change I made was with the HD800 and only the bass knob was in play. I didn't feel there was any issue for me elsewhere up the frequency ladder.

For $149 if I didn't like it in the chain I could have returned it or re-purposed it as a paper weight.


----------



## Tuneslover

RatFarm said:


> Played around with the Loki more this weekend and I have nailed the perfect settings for my equipment. In a word the Loki is miraculous. The T1 is now the headphone that I always wanted. Excellent bass, perfect midrange and delicate treble. Now I wonder how an LCD would sound..... must resist.



Nice!  Be sure to take a picture or write down the settings for your T1 so that when/if you re-adjust the Loki for your other headphone(s).


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

CarlosUnchained said:


> I find amusing some reactions around the Loki.
> Are we pretending EQ didn't exist before this?
> Have these people ever tried EQ before?
> 
> I get it's a convenient and nice sounding piece of gear, but cmon, It's nothing you couldn't do before.



 Digital EQ never satisfy me I guess. I tried couple stuff but I always felt that something is missing or a little over emphasis. 

I guess Loki works well for me. Never had a better T90 than this


----------



## wingsounds13

CarlosUnchained said:


> I'm not reading reactions about how noiseless and true to the source it is compared with digital EQ,



What we have also not seen are any comments about any noise added or resolution lost by the Loki Mini.  It is apparently sufficiently clean in these aspects that they have not demanded to be a topic of discussion from those who have listened through it and are commenting on their experience.  To me, this suggests that it is very good.  Perhaps not exceptional, but clearly far from bad as well.  

J.P.


----------



## RatFarm (Oct 9, 2017)

wingsounds13 said:


> What we have also not seen are any comments about any noise added or resolution lost by the Loki Mini.  It is apparently sufficiently clean in these aspects that they have not demanded to be a topic of discussion from those who have listened through it and are commenting on their experience.  To me, this suggests that it is very good.  Perhaps not exceptional, but clearly far from bad as well.
> 
> J.P.



The T1, like the HD800, is like a microscope. With the Loki in the loop it is completely transparent. In fact, with the treble toned down a bit I am able to hear details in the midrange that were lost before the Loki was installed.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

RatFarm said:


> The T1, like the HD800, is like a microscope. With the Loki in the loop it is completely transparent. In fact, with the treble toned down a bit I am able to hear details in the midrange that were lost before the Loki was installed.



+1 

I am experiencing a similar improvements with my T90. Smoother top end, better bass extension and detailed midrange.


----------



## JamminVMI

Well, since I had some time this morning...

Decided to see if my initial impression was all washed up - and since I'm new here, YMMV, but...

I grabbed three tracks with which I’m very familiar (all ripped from CD to ALAC), and listened to them playing from my FiiO X5 III, connected to the Modi 2 Über via SPDIF (coax), and listened to each (track list at the bottom, if anyone cares) in the configs below with three pairs of headphones (Senny HD598, HD598Cs [closed-back] and AKG K-7xx):

The whole stack is powered by the Schiit Cthulu floor wart and connected using SYS cables (except the DAP, which uses FiiO’s L21 digital coaxial cable to get to the Modi).

Configurations:
1.  Modi 2 Über to Magni 2 Über to headphones (I used this as my subjective “control” config)
2.  Modi 2 Über to Loki mini (bypass switch in BYPASS position), to Magni 2 Über to headphones
3.  Modi 2 Über to Loki mini (bypass switch in ACTIVE position, all tone control knobs in their detents at 0), to Magni 2 Über to headphones

My thoughts:
I cannot hear any difference in noise floor, instrument/vocal textures, or anything else between these configs.  I listened to each track using my “control” config between each of the other configs, but this is still based on my ears and my subjective opinion. In all seriousness, try as I might, I can't tell when the Loki is part of the equation (zeroed out or bypassed) and when it's not there. I know that I CAN hear the difference the tone controls make, but that’s it. 

I hope this helps, and I hope someone else tries something like this, I’d like to hear what they think.

Tracks:
1.  Classical:  The Sixteen/Christophers: Händel Chandos Anthem #1 - Sonata  (1994)

2. Smooth Jazz: Kirk Whalum, "Daddy Loves You" from Colors (1997)

3. Rock/Pop: Queen, "Somebody to Love" from A Day at the Races (2011 Remaster)


----------



## misteral201103

Finally got my Loki from China customs and had my first listen (running through iFi iCan SE, source Fiio X5iii)
Initial results with the Nighthawks was pretty positive. Able to give the higher frequencies a nice bump which the 'hawks respond well to.
With the Hifiman HE400i - I wasn't very impressed. To get any meaningful difference in the lower end, I had to turn the leftmost knob almost all the way, which to me seems a bit much. I realise this seems a little ridiculous - that I should be bothered about how far I turn a knob - but it just seems a little extreme to achieve only a slight increase in bass frequencies. I don't use the 400i's with the iFi amp usually, I prefer them running from the Cayin C5. With the C5, the bass boost makes a BIG difference (albeit over a wider range of frequencies) so I know the headphones can deliver bass when it is fed to them.

Overall, at this point, I am a little disappointed with the small difference the Loki is making
HOWEVER
I feel like I need to spend a good hour with the Loki and each set of headphones, listening for a while with no alterations made and then tweaking. By the end of my relatively short first listen I felt like I had taken a step backwards in sound quality. Going from one headphone to another (without the Loki) always takes a little while to settle in to the sound of the cans, compared to the other set. So I feel like I need to allow for that with the Loki. I probably won't have time tomorrow, but the day after I will aim to have a good listening session and will report back. I'm hoping the issue is with me and a lack of 'settling in'


----------



## RatFarm

I wonder if the HE400i driver doesn’t respond well to EQ at 20Hz and that the C5’s bass boost is centered around a higher frequency like 80Hz so more apparent boost?


----------



## JamminVMI

misteral201103 said:


> Finally got my Loki from China customs and had my first listen (running through iFi iCan SE, source Fiio X5iii)
> Initial results with the Nighthawks was pretty positive. Able to give the higher frequencies a nice bump which the 'hawks respond well to.
> With the Hifiman HE400i - I wasn't very impressed. To get any meaningful difference in the lower end, I had to turn the leftmost knob almost all the way, which to me seems a bit much. I realise this seems a little ridiculous - that I should be bothered about how far I turn a knob - but it just seems a little extreme to achieve only a slight increase in bass frequencies. I don't use the 400i's with the iFi amp usually, I prefer them running from the Cayin C5. With the C5, the bass boost makes a BIG difference (albeit over a wider range of frequencies) so I know the headphones can deliver bass when it is fed to them.
> 
> ...



Have you tried using the 400Hz band in conjunction with the 20Hz? Just a thought.


----------



## misteral201103

I just want to start by saying that this is entirely my experience/opinion. I intend to write again after this, but I will allow a few days to pass. Given how well the Loki has been received by everyone else, I am doubting myself.

@RatFarm  and @JamminVMI 
As it turns out, I did have a little time this morning. Had another quick play. Yesterday I had been adjusting the 400Hz band along with the 20Hz, I was thinking much the same as you in terms of needing a wider/slightly higher frequency of bass increase.

*HE 400i - ifi iCan SE - Loki - Fiio X5iii*

My results today are much the same as yesterday. I quickly gave up on the HE400i's. 
My experience is that the controls don't change the sound very much until I'm at about 3 o'clock. Given that they only turn to about 4 o'clock, this translates as nothing, nothing, nothing, EVERYTHING!!!!
And with the variable Q, this means that rather than providing a nice smooth boost across a range, I am ending up with a spike which then overpowers the other frequencies.
As I have said before, I prefer the Hifiman 'phones being driven from my Cayin C5. Had hoped the Loki might allow me to use them with the iCan. So far, I am still far more satisfied with the C5 pairing.

So while Harvery Weinstein allegedly forces himself on women, children starve the world over and people die in conflict, I have an amp that doesn't pair with my headphones as well as another amp I have. Don't tell me I haven't suffered.....

*Nighthawks - ifi iCan SE - Loki - Fiio X5iii*

With the 'hawks, I'm working on the end of the spectrum and the response to small increases is very favourable.
I initially bought the iCan SE because the Nighthawks sounded better out of this than anything I had heard previously (granted, my focus group is pretty small!!) and a large part of this successful pairing was a greater degree of detail in the upper end.
The Loki allows me to increase this further, invoking a crisp yet warm sound from the 'hawks. It's a *very* subtle difference (how nice that Schiit included a bypass switch for quick AB-ing!!) but one that I appreciate.
The only caveat is that at times (to my ears) there can be a sound of slight distortion (at relatively low volume levels). This may be due to the recordings themselves, since I do not hear this on everything. I think more time is needed.

So yes, great results with Audioquest, not so good with Hifiman, still want to spend more time playing with it though.
Overall, to be honest, still a little disappointed. Not the 'touch of magic' I was hoping for...although saying that, if it's bumped my Nighthawks up another level, then what exactly am I not achieving??
I wonder how much of my sense of ennui is due to equipment mismatching/less than perfect pairing. Would the Loki be more effective if paired with a Magni3? Perhaps when I'm next in the UK I might see about picking one up.

Forgive the stream of consciousness here - I'm sitting at my desk and Randy Crawford's Streetlife has just come on (part of a playlist I use for general reference/testing). Probably the best I have heard it on the 'hawks. Full presentation but well balanced across the frequencies at the same time. So what exactly am I disappointed about?

Yeah, ok, so although the difference is not night and day, the Loki really does add an increased level of detail to the 'hawks through my setup. When I disable it now, the sound is uncomfortably dulled in comparison.
Tomorrow I'll have another go with the 400i's.


----------



## JamminVMI

Glad you’re getting there. I’m playing with Loki now with Rush’s 2112...


----------



## Witcher

misteral201103 said:


> Finally got my Loki from China customs and had my first listen (running through iFi iCan SE, source Fiio X5iii)
> Initial results with the Nighthawks was pretty positive. Able to give the higher frequencies a nice bump which the 'hawks respond well to.
> With the Hifiman HE400i - I wasn't very impressed. To get any meaningful difference in the lower end, I had to turn the leftmost knob almost all the way, which to me seems a bit much. I realise this seems a little ridiculous - that I should be bothered about how far I turn a knob - but it just seems a little extreme to achieve only a slight increase in bass frequencies. I don't use the 400i's with the iFi amp usually, I prefer them running from the Cayin C5. With the C5, the bass boost makes a BIG difference (albeit over a wider range of frequencies) so I know the headphones can deliver bass when it is fed to them.
> 
> ...


I'm facing the same issue. I just got the Loki and the Magni 3. The mids are nice to tweak with, but the bass control on the Loki isn't sufficient. I'm not a basshead by any means, but I'd like to feel the drums when they hit. I came from an ifi Audio iCan SE, coupled with an iTube 2. Either of those hit harder. Its just that I'm not able to control the mids with those, so I thought the Loki was good enough. I will have to try the Loki with the iFi stack and see if that works better.


----------



## misteral201103

Witcher said:


> I'm facing the same issue. I just got the Loki and the Magni 3. The mids are nice to tweak with, but the bass control on the Loki isn't sufficient. I'm not a basshead by any means, but I'd like to feel the drums when they hit. I came from an ifi Audio iCan SE, coupled with an iTube 2. Either of those hit harder. Its just that I'm not able to control the mids with those, so I thought the Loki was good enough. I will have to try the Loki with the iFi stack and see if that works better.



We may both be in the position where we're expecting the Loki to do something that's simply not intended - that is to provide a 'bass boost' We both have that on the iCan (which for me is too little on the lower setting and too much on the higher!) and I have it on the C5 (perfect) but they are dedicated _bass boosts
_
I had another listen to the 400i's (this will not be a long post - I'll have a better listen tomorrow and save my 'book' till then!) and I _was_ able to make a difference - a good one - but not as much as I had hoped. Incidentally, this was with the iCan bass boost on low as well.

The only other thing I'd say at this point, if you haven't tried already, is to give subtractive eq a go and just drop the upper frequencies while providing a small bump in the lower end (ooh er). Give it a try and see if you get closer to what you were after.


----------



## Witcher

misteral201103 said:


> We may both be in the position where we're expecting the Loki to do something that's simply not intended - that is to provide a 'bass boost' We both have that on the iCan (which for me is too little on the lower setting and too much on the higher!) and I have it on the C5 (perfect) but they are dedicated _bass boosts
> _
> I had another listen to the 400i's (this will not be a long post - I'll have a better listen tomorrow and save my 'book' till then!) and I _was_ able to make a difference - a good one - but not as much as I had hoped. Incidentally, this was with the iCan bass boost on low as well.
> 
> The only other thing I'd say at this point, if you haven't tried already, is to give subtractive eq a go and just drop the upper frequencies while providing a small bump in the lower end (ooh er). Give it a try and see if you get closer to what you were after.



yes. but I have no issues with the subbass of the ifi stack. I don't use it on full for the ican SE, and I have the itube 2 Xbass set to low. it stacks, and very nicely so. much better than either one set to full, strangely. so this is just enough for me on the HD800S.

I did try the subtractive eq. it works a little, but still not what I want. and the volume needs to be brought up quite a bit.

So I tried this:






Ideally, the Loki should be between the iTube2, and the iCan SE, but I thought I'd try the chain out first. (that, and I don't have long enough RCA cables to extend the loop)

and it works. I have to bring the bass on the Loki lower now, and I get to control the mids, which is what I wanted. I'm going to test it out a little more, but for now, I'm much happier. The bass is where I want it, and I get to raise the mids the way I want.


----------



## Alcophone

Maybe you need to chain multiple Lokis


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

I


Alcophone said:


> Maybe you need to chain multiple Lokis



I am thinking about this actually but not sure if it's a good idea.


----------



## KewlMunky

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> I
> 
> 
> I am thinking about this actually but not sure if it's a good idea.



Might be a good question to ask support. A single Loki's adjustments won't put you into the danger zone of clipping, but if they can work in series and combine their boost, you may get into that zone.

Might be best to either look for a beefier EQ. Or perhaps if your headphone needs that much tuning, you should look for a different headphone?


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

KewlMunky said:


> Might be a good question to ask support. A single Loki's adjustments won't put you into the danger zone of clipping, but if they can work in series and combine their boost, you may get into that zone.
> 
> Might be best to either look for a beefier EQ. Or perhaps if your headphone needs that much tuning, you should look for a different headphone?



I am just curious on how it works but I love how my T90 sounds with loki now. No need for another loki in my case


----------



## Mkoll

I think that how well the Loki works, or any EQ for that matter, depends on the headphones. Some headphones respond better to EQ than others, especially in the lower frequencies. So when it doesn't work, it's usually (always?) a limitation of the headphones' hardware, not the EQ.


----------



## Nemis007

I picked up the Loki and am very very happy with my purchase.. Soundblaster ZX-> Loki-> Magni3-> Fostex TH-X00= pure sub bass heaven!  I am finally getting that beautiful thumping sub bass that I was seeking.


----------



## misteral201103

No need for a book from me today, spent the morning listening to the HE400i's with the Loki.
Earlier I had said that I think I need to spend time listening at particular settings and let the sound 'settle in' - I think I was right (but still have a slight caveat)
Currently I have the following for the 400i's - 3:30, 2:00, 1:00, 1:00
This is a really pleasing signature - as with my settings for the Nighthawks now (2:00, 12:30, 2:00, 2:00), to listen without the Loki is almost uncomfortably dull (less so than with the 'hawks but still...)

My slight caveat is that I wonder how far I have drifted from a realistic presentation. I've been listening to a mixture of pop, EDM, jazz (vocal and instrumental) and classical. And honestly, it all sounds really nice, just that little bit of 'musical MSG'. But with alterations across all the available frequency ranges, just what have I done to the sound?!?!?!

Bottom line though, I am CONSIDERABLY less disappointed than I was at first listen. I'm liking the Loki - especially with the 'hawks but now also with the Hifiman cans.


----------



## Witcher

misteral201103 said:


> No need for a book from me today, spent the morning listening to the HE400i's with the Loki.
> Earlier I had said that I think I need to spend time listening at particular settings and let the sound 'settle in' - I think I was right (but still have a slight caveat)
> Currently I have the following for the 400i's - 3:30, 2:00, 1:00, 1:00
> This is a really pleasing signature - as with my settings for the Nighthawks now (2:00, 12:30, 2:00, 2:00), to listen without the Loki is almost uncomfortably dull (less so than with the 'hawks but still...)
> ...



I'm almost always at 2:00, 4:00, 1:30, 12.00 for the HD800S, since I let the ifi stack take care of most of the bass. With my Z1Rs, I'm at 12:00, 2:00, 1:30, 12.30.

I've given up on chasing realism. Being a hobbyist musician, I'm no stranger to "actual" sounds of instruments and their causes. Many a times I have found myself amused that after tweaking the setup I have (before loki), and then finding the result very similar to using an iPhone with $100 iems. I think this hobby is more self indulgent in nature, and we should just go with what fits and what we want rather than try to justify the need for something. If you like it, buy it.


----------



## Oregonian

technobear said:


> Really?
> 
> Where are all these other sub-$1000 analogue equalisers and tone controls?
> 
> ...



Many of us old timers use vintage speaker amps with TONE controls................and equalizers as well.  True, up to now "headphone specific amps" were devoid of these useful tone controls and it's about time someone did it.................but I'll still stick with my incredible vintage equipment.


----------



## quimbo

Just got my Loki mini.  Win 7 64 Bit > Foobar 2000> Wasapi > Gen5 Bimby > Loki > Sys 

      > Tweak City Gizmo Class D Amplifier > Tweak City Audio WAF-1 Mini-Monitors & Onix Rocket UFW-10 Subwoofer

     > Asgard 2 > DT 770 Pro 80 Ohm

Put on Bill Evans Waltz For Debby LP, My Foolish Heart.    Very nice adjustments with the Loki.  Want to hear more cymbals, adjust the 8kHz.  Need some bass in the headphones, slight twist of 20Hz.

Very impressed with this, I was using a software solution - iZotope Ozone 5 - which offers so much fine tuning, the Loki is much smoother and easier to use.


----------



## Cdog

A question for those of you that have had the Loki for a bit. I admit that for the majority of my listening Sennheiser's are mostly too dark and Grado's are too bright. I have others like a pair of AKG's that show real promise, but could use a bit of a tweak in the upper mids.

A year ago I didn't own any headphones. I was pure two channel home stereo and it was far easier for me to reposition speakers, add subs etc, for finding nirvana. Life changes and I now have more family in my home, so headphones became a necessary alternative. I likely have a half dozen or more various headphones now, and I do find them very interesting. Finally my question, "Do you think this $150.00 unit will slow you (or me) from purchasing headphones after headphones?"

Thanks in advance.CD


----------



## Left Channel

Cdog said:


> A question for those of you that have had the Loki for a bit. I admit that for the majority of my listening Sennheiser's are mostly too dark and Grado's are too bright. I have others like a pair of AKG's that show real promise, but could use a bit of a tweak in the upper mids.
> 
> A year ago I didn't own any headphones. I was pure two channel home stereo and it was far easier for me to reposition speakers, add subs etc, for finding nirvana. Life changes and I now have more family in my home, so headphones became a necessary alternative. I likely have a half dozen or more various headphones now, and I do find them very interesting. Finally my question, "Do you think this $150.00 unit will slow you (or me) from purchasing headphones after headphones?"
> 
> Thanks in advance.CD



Yes, it may slow the progress of the disease. But the disease itself is incurable.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

Cdog said:


> A question for those of you that have had the Loki for a bit. I admit that for the majority of my listening Sennheiser's are mostly too dark and Grado's are too bright. I have others like a pair of AKG's that show real promise, but could use a bit of a tweak in the upper mids.
> 
> A year ago I didn't own any headphones. I was pure two channel home stereo and it was far easier for me to reposition speakers, add subs etc, for finding nirvana. Life changes and I now have more family in my home, so headphones became a necessary alternative. I likely have a half dozen or more various headphones now, and I do find them very interesting. Finally my question, "Do you think this $150.00 unit will slow you (or me) from purchasing headphones after headphones?"
> 
> Thanks in advance.CD



It might; although, I am not sure if it stops me from buying more headphone. The thing is, Loki doesn't do a magic trick that could change HD650 to HD800 or HD800 to TH900. It tweaks the tone a bit but not really change the overall sound signature. The difference in the sound signature what makes you (or me at least) wanting a new set of headphone.


----------



## Tuneslover

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> It might; although, I am not sure if it stops me from buying more headphone. The thing is, Loki doesn't do a magic trick that could change HD650 to HD800 or HD800 to TH900. It tweaks the tone a bit but not really change the overall sound signature. The difference in the sound signature what makes you (or me at least) wanting a new set of headphone.



If you have the HD650 I'd be interested in hearing your impression...if you turned the second from left knob down (to "tame" the HD650 mid bass hump) and turned up the far left knob in order to increase the sub-bass?  Thanks.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

Tuneslover said:


> If you have the HD650 I'd be interested in hearing your impression...if you turned the second from left knob down (to "tame" the HD650 mid bass hump) and turned up the far left knob in order to increase the sub-bass?  Thanks.



I have a modded HD6XX but I'll try it later today and comeback to you after.


----------



## Tuneslover

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> I have a modded HD6XX but I'll try it later today and comeback to you after.



Thanks.  Once you have determined how much to adjust each of the 2 knobs (keeping the other 2 knobs at the top) to your liking please let me know the approximate settings of them.  Also, see how it compares when switching between that setting and the by-pass mode.  Thanks so much!

Anyone out there...I'd be interested to hear your impressions with an un-modded HD650 as well.  Thanks everyone!


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

Tuneslover said:


> Thanks.  Once you have determined how much to adjust each of the 2 knobs (keeping the other 2 knobs at the top) to your liking please let me know the approximate settings of them.  Also, see how it compares when switching between that setting and the by-pass mode.  Thanks so much!
> 
> Anyone out there...I'd be interested to hear your impressions with an un-modded HD650 as well.  Thanks everyone!



Sure. I'll let you know later


----------



## JamminVMI

Dying laughing here.


Cdog said:


> A question for those of you that have had the Loki for a bit. I admit that for the majority of my listening Sennheiser's are mostly too dark and Grado's are too bright. I have others like a pair of AKG's that show real promise, but could use a bit of a tweak in the upper mids.
> 
> A year ago I didn't own any headphones. I was pure two channel home stereo and it was far easier for me to reposition speakers, add subs etc, for finding nirvana. Life changes and I now have more family in my home, so headphones became a necessary alternative. I likely have a half dozen or more various headphones now, and I do find them very interesting. Finally my question, "Do you think this $150.00 unit will slow you (or me) from purchasing headphones after headphones?"
> 
> Thanks in advance.CD



Cracking up, figured


Cdog said:


> A question for those of you that have had the Loki for a bit. I admit that for the majority of my listening Sennheiser's are mostly too dark and Grado's are too bright. I have others like a pair of AKG's that show real promise, but could use a bit of a tweak in the upper mids.
> 
> A year ago I didn't own any headphones. I was pure two channel home stereo and it was far easier for me to reposition speakers, add subs etc, for finding nirvana. Life changes and I now have more family in my home, so headphones became a necessary alternative. I likely have a half dozen or more various headphones now, and I do find them very interesting. Finally my question, "Do you think this $150.00 unit will slow you (or me) from purchasing headphones after headphones?"
> 
> Thanks in advance.CD



Chuckling here. @LeftChannel is spot on. The affliction we have is like an itch that can’t ever be completely/successfully scratched. When my Massdropped AKG K-7xx cans arrived the other day, my wife asked how many headphones I needed (it’s my 3rd pair). Fortunately for me, a new pair of shoes had also been in the delivery driver’s hands, which caused us both to crack up.

Much like shoes, we all want a pair of cans that’s perfect, and what’s perfect for one probably isn’t for you and me. What the Loki Mini will (hopefully) do is tailor a slightly bright (or warm, or spiky, or whatever) pair of cans into a smoother, better sounding pair. This MIGHT assuage your desire for a new/different pair for a longer period than before, but that desire will never go away, I suspect.

Enjoy! That pair of K-7xxs went into mt cart about 5 times over a month or so before I pulled the trigger. But pull it I did (and happy I am that I did).


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

Tuneslover said:


> Thanks.  Once you have determined how much to adjust each of the 2 knobs (keeping the other 2 knobs at the top) to your liking please let me know the approximate settings of them.  Also, see how it compares when switching between that setting and the by-pass mode.  Thanks so much!
> 
> Anyone out there...I'd be interested to hear your impressions with an un-modded HD650 as well.  Thanks everyone!



The best that I've tried in a short 30 min listening is at 3:30 for the far left knob and 10:00 for the second left knob while the other knobs stay put at 12:00. Bass is more pronounced but cleaner at the same time. Mid bass hump is improved but when turn the second left knob further down, I felt like the bass lose it's body. I'll try again tonight and see if there's any better.


----------



## erics75

Cdog said:


> A question for those of you that have had the Loki for a bit. I admit that for the majority of my listening Sennheiser's are mostly too dark and Grado's are too bright. I have others like a pair of AKG's that show real promise, but could use a bit of a tweak in the upper mids.
> 
> A year ago I didn't own any headphones. I was pure two channel home stereo and it was far easier for me to reposition speakers, add subs etc, for finding nirvana. Life changes and I now have more family in my home, so headphones became a necessary alternative. I likely have a half dozen or more various headphones now, and I do find them very interesting. Finally my question, "Do you think this $150.00 unit will slow you (or me) from purchasing headphones after headphones?"
> 
> Thanks in advance.CD


welcome to my world! kids = headphones haha. i miss my full size setup, but not as much as i thought i would. 

as for the loki/hd650, i find it quite good. like others have said, the loki will not completely transform the headphones into something else. that being said, it can alter it enough to have a quite noticeable effect on the sound signature. how significant that change is, is very subjective. i've only had my loki a few days, but i did spend the bulk of my time on the 650, as i find that's my current favorite overall sounding headphone. here's what i found:

overall, the loki really wakes the 650 up. i love the low/mid presentation of the 650, but always want a touch more sparkle up top. the loki does that quite well. i left the sub and mid bass knobs at 12. 2kh knob i turned to 3, and the 8kh to 1:30. what i found is that brought the lower treble forward nicely for vocals, and gave the upper treble just a hint of the sparkle i've been missing. when i'd toggle the bypass on/off, the effects were both subtle and substantial. subtle in that the overall boost isnt that strong, but the effect it had on the overall sound signature was substantial. that's a very subjective thing too, keep in mind. i found the alteration substantial because i love how the 650 sounds, and to be able to tweak the small problem area is huge for me. it really gets me as close as i'm going to get to my perfect signature (until my tastes change....!). others who arent as invested in thier headphones might laugh at the difference and say it's too small to matter. 

when i would take the 2kh or 8kh knobs past what i noted, i found the 650 to sound too unbalanced. it felt like it was divided in half. you had that warm, thick bass fighting with the upper regions for my attention. i didnt care for it at all. again, just my personal preferences. 

i did find the 650 didnt seem to like having it's bass boosted too much. i played with all the knobs, but found the sub and mid bass adjustments to just make the already thick bass even thicker and boomier. detail disappeared quite quickly as the drivers struggled to reproduce such strong bass. it reminded me of my old dt770 without an amp. just slow, wooly, thick bass with no texture or detail. i run my 650 through a jotunheim with balanced cables, so power isnt an issue. the 650 drivers just dont seem to respond well to heavy bass adjustments. 

alternatively, when reducing sub/mid bass, it got a bit too hollow sounding. it was still kinda thick sounding, but without the impact, if that makes sense. 

one final thought for everyone. try many different headphones on the loki before passing judgement! some headphones respond very well to adjustments, others not much at all. here's what found with my current lineup:

ether c - loved all adjustments either way, the most flexible and accepting of adjustment
hd650 - does treble adjustments far better than bass adjustments
t70 - like the ether c, very accepting of adjustments. wont take as much before distorting and sounding weird, but still very adjustable
srh1540 - same as 650. took the treble adjustments nicely, but bass would get bad quick. 
philips l2 - did not seem to like anything i did to it haha. 
nad viso hp50 - loved treble boost, stayed clear and precise while extending much farther than stock. bass though wasnt as good. it took a small bit of adjustment ok, but anything more and it became a boom machine (not in a good way)
rs2e - like the 650, the loki seems made for this headphone. small reductions to the upper regions made the grado so much better balanced. it woudlnt take heavy bass boosts, but subtle adjustments sounded quite good. really loved how it sounded. then traded them away today. i may regret that one...already do a bit....


----------



## FLTWS (Oct 13, 2017)

Just  a quick FYI, I see Sennheiser is releasing a new model HD660 S in a week or so to replace the 650.


----------



## quimbo

FLTWS said:


> Just  a quick FYI, I see Sennheiser is releasing a new model HD660 S in a week or so to replace the 650.



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/meet-the-sennheiser-hd-660-s.862720/


----------



## treecloud

Kn1nJa said:


> So a bit of a confession here, I am a bit of a basshead. I love to have really accurate audio when listening to most genres, but nothing is quite like the awesomeness that is (good) electronic music with super heavy bass. The first thing I did when I got my Loki (about 15 minutes ago) was turn the first knob all the way up and turn on some Deadmau5 (While 1>2). Loki took a setup that is pretty darn awesome (Bifrost multibit with gen5 + Lyr2 + Audeze EL8) to pure eargasm. The clarity at even crazy EQ levels is astonishing. I'm being a bit modest with the volume on the Lyr2, but even so there is no distortion. The music is smooth as silk but with all the extra bass I love with this genre. I equate this new setup to the subwoofer I have in my car. The regular speakers are all pretty awesome (Hertz Hi Energy), but the sub just adds that extra bit of amazing to electronic (and I can turn it down with its own knob too). Adding Loki was like adding a subwoofer to my headphone system. If you are a basshead, you need this.



That combination of components sounds like pure synergy. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan (Oct 14, 2017)

Tuneslover said:


> If you have the HD650 I'd be interested in hearing your impression...if you turned the second from left knob down (to "tame" the HD650 mid bass hump) and turned up the far left knob in order to increase the sub-bass?  Thanks.



I still think that 3:30 and 10:00 (with 12:00 for both other two knobs) is the best for my 6XX. But when I play with the other two knobs, I prefer the far right to be 2:45 and second to the right to be 1:30 (with the other two to be 3:30 and 10:00). Although, I prefer full balanced without Loki for my 6XX. If Schiit produced a balanced Loki, I might prefer full balanced with Loki than without.


----------



## Tuneslover

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> I still think that 3:30 and 10:00 (with 12:00 for both other two knobs) is the best for my 6XX. But when I play with the other two knobs, I prefer the far right to be 2:45 and second to the right to be 1:30 (with the other two to be 3:30 and 10:00). Although, I prefer full balanced without Loki for my 6XX. If Schiit produced a balanced Loki, I might prefer full balanced with Loki than without.



@ahmadfaizadnan thank you for your impressions, much appreciated!


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

Tuneslover said:


> @ahmadfaizadnan thank you for your impressions, much appreciated!



No problem. But, I am sorry that I don't have the stock 650 to try with the loki.


----------



## erics75

spent the weekend with the loki mini and t70, trying out different settings to optimize the sound to my liking. i gotta say first off, the t70 takes adjustment really well. almost as well as the ether c. only at near full crank on the various knobs did i notice distortion. quite impressed!

ok a little about me and the t70 for context. this is my work set, the set i spend 90% of my listening time with. i sit in an open concept office, like a wall street trading floor. google image for reference. i can literally reach to my right/left and touch my coworkers. we're close  so isolation is the #1 factor in my work set consideration. and the t70 is the best isolating set i've owned, only to be challenged by the alpha prime. being i spend so much time with this set, i didnt hesitate buying the loki so that i can tweak the sound to my ideal. the t70, imo, is a very underappreciated set. it's resolving, comfortable, well built, and sounds pretty good! it's not perfect, but it's not as bad as some make it out to be. again imo. 

so what's missing that i felt the need to buy the loki? bass! yes, the t70 is light on the bass. it actually has very impressive subbass depth, but the impact of that bass isnt that great. but it will actually register subbass lower than some of my more expensive sets. i just wanted more slam. cue loki! the loki can really wake up the bass on this set! i was doing some deep dives on the sub/mid bass knobs (4-5 oclock both), and the t70 responded quite nicely! it got much warmer sounding, with impressive weight and slam. it's still not a basshead can, but i'd put the bass impact on par with the ether c, with more depth! but at that much adjustment, there was a touch of distortion, and it sounded unbalanced. but i gotta admit, i was beyond impressed with how much adjustment it was capable of taking before distortion became an issue. the tesla drivers seem very flexible to eq. 

i dont find the t70 to be as siblant as others, so i actually leave the right two knobs on the loki alone. i initally lowered them while cranking the left two, but it really sounded odd, very unbalanced. and it lost what is it's best feature, imo, clarity/resolution. it sounded too dull, like a wool blanket was tossed over the driver. so leaving the right knobs alone, i've settled on 3:30 for subbass, and 2:30 for midbass. this leaves the t70 still well balanced, without a hint of distortion, and it's excellent resolution, but with some nice added warmth down low, with nice slam and weight to low notes. loving it!!!!!!!!!! and loving this little schiit! good job schiit, another great sounding and affordable piece of kit.


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## MrTechAgent (Oct 17, 2017)

Just received mine.




Haven't had the time to really play with it extensively, yet. Here are some impressions and observations anyway :

As you can see, I'm using the Loki Mini with my turntable. In my digital domain, all my Headphones and corrected and my listening heavily relies on DSP. This void was always there with my Analog setup and the Loki Mini seemed like a decent fit.
Non-Constant-Q is definitely an hit or miss depending upon the Headphone's response. So far only tested with my DT770, QC35 and HD800. Loki does do a good job with the HD800 and the QC35 which is already running a curve, even with my fiddling on the Loki the QC35 took 20Hz changes very well, even though it doesn't need it or any other of Loki's adjustments.

Do like the Aluminium of the Loki but looks odd when stacked with the Magni 2. A reason to get the Aluminium Magni 3, I think not, maybe, definitely, yes definitely.
Overall, loving the Loki Mini but looking forward to the big brother Loki, whenever it decides to show up.

*Oh yeah, my knobs are off-centred too. OCD was strong with that one.


----------



## Left Channel

_That Murphy Moment when you know..._

...that you may have the dubious distinction of being the first to send a Loki Mini back for repair. That may be my honor. I probably injured my little four-knobbed tone control while swapping it dozens of times between two sets of DACs and amps I was testing. Murphy's Law states that eventually you will forget to turn everything off, and then get that nasty electrical sound when you touch the wrong parts of an RCA connection together. In my infinite wisdom, I was able to do that multiple times. An internal relay started cutting off all sound within six seconds except when in bypass mode. 


_From fritz to bliss: _

An email exchange with Schiit support on a Friday resulted in referral to a Schiit tech. A quick look at my description on Saturday, and the tech provided a Return Authorization. The UPS Store lady probably got her best laugh of the day out of the company name. Schiit received my package Wednesday, completed the repair the following Monday, and I had the unit back by Thursday. So less than a week for the repair, and just under two weeks overall from fritz to bliss. 

I think they wound up sending me a new or as-new refurbished unit, because my knobs are lined up perfectly now. I didn't keep a record of the serial number, but one knob was slightly off before and was activating my OCD on occasion. Other reasons I think it's a swap rather than a repair are that it came in a different Schiit box than the one I sent out, and because the package included a set of instructions plus a wall-wart in previously opened packaging. I hadn't included anything but the Loki Mini, per the Return Authorization instructions. 

Now I have two adapters I don't use, because my Schiit stack is connected to a "Cthulhu" multi-outlet floor-wart LPS. And it's all good. 


_A mini Loki Mini review: _

I use the Loki Mini primarily to improve the midrange performance of my PSB Alpha 1-100 active speakers-and-sub when listening to newscasters, vocalists, and many acoustic performances. I was about to get rid of that PSB system when the Loki Mini came along. I have also used it to reduce the teeth-gritting treble on my Genelec M030 active speakers, which I may not have purchased at all had the Loki Mini already been announced. I haven't experimented much with headphone output yet, as swapping between my four very different sets of cans is usually enough for me, but I'm sure the Loki Mini can improve those too.


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## mgh24

Bought the Loki on a whim, and immediately had buyers remorse - why do I need another "toy" to play with?  Almost sent it back without opening it.

Then had a chance to hear some new headphones - long story short, I have gone back to a pair of headphones I have had for a long time, adjusted top two down to about 10:00 position, and really smoothed the sound signature out a lot.  I'm not a fan of a warm signature, but this just took the edge off the top end.  Very happy with what the Loki did.


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## Zachik

Any experience with beefing up the mid-bass of the AEON Flow Closed (AFC) with the Loki?


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## Tuneslover

I'm planning on ordering one and having it shipped to our hotel in NYC when we go there (we're from Canada) in December.


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## Odin412

I spent some time with Loki today at the Shiitr and here are my impressions. When all knobs are set to neutral (there’s a nice click that indicates when they’re set to neutral) I couldn’t hear any differences at all between I switched between bypass and EQ enabled. The four EQ bands seem fairly well chosen to me: Deep bass, upper bass/lower midrange that can sometimes make the music sound ‘thick’, upper midrange/lower treble and high treble. I was hoping that one of the knobs would help me dampen sibilance on overly bright tracks, but the third knob seems to work a bit below the sibilance range where I’m most sensitive and the fourth knob seems to work a bit above that range. Using small adjustment on both knobs I was able to dampen sibilance a fair bit, but still I’d prefer a knob that works on a range in the middle of the two high-frequency knobs on the current model. Maybe on a future Bifrost-sized Loki Plus?

As always, YMMV so listen for yourself if you get a chance. Tone controls are back – and they sound good!


----------



## George Taylor

Just a quick opinion on the Loki. I feel for the price, it's fine for what it does. I'm in my 50s, I can remember having equalizers installed for my car stereo that were slightly similar to the Loki, only with kind of with a bar graph that you would move the indicators up and down on manually, instead of turning knobs. If I have a minor gripe, it's that I wish the knobs were slightly more sensitive. I wish turning them would make more of a difference earlier in turning them, if that makes any sense. But like I said at first, for the price I think it's fine. And it's easier than opening up the eq on whatever program I'm using on the pc and messing with that.


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## JamminVMI

George Taylor said:


> Just a quick opinion on the Loki. I feel for the price, it's fine for what it does. I'm in my 50s, I can remember having equalizers installed for my car stereo that were slightly similar to the Loki, only with kind of with a bar graph that you would move the indicators up and down on manually, instead of turning knobs. If I have a minor gripe, it's that I wish the knobs were slightly more sensitive. I wish turning them would make more of a difference earlier in turning them, if that makes any sense. But like I said at first, for the price I think it's fine. And it's easier than opening up the eq on whatever program I'm using on the pc and messing with that.



Me too, age- and recollection-wise. But to show how absolutely brilliant and diverse (abnd opinionated) our hobby/obsessionis, I agree with you completely regarding Loki Mini’s value proposition. And I disagree equally with you on your dislike of the effect that the pots have. I love the way they work, because my  AKG 7XXs need just a tad here and there, and the limited change at the start suits me.

Different ears, different headphones, different people. ENJOY!


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## Mkoll

Zachik said:


> Any experience with beefing up the mid-bass of the AEON Flow Closed (AFC) with the Loki?


It does a superb job, IMO. Makes the foam inserts superfluous unnecessary. I barely turn up the second knob and turn up the first knob a little more than that and I'm happy with the sound.


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## deutschemark

Mkoll said:


> It does a superb job, IMO. Makes the foam inserts superfluous unnecessary. I barely turn up the second knob and turn up the first knob a little more than that and I'm happy with the sound.




+1. I have the Aeon Flow Closed and my adjustment with the Loki is very similar with the added adjustment of lowering 8k about 1db. Sounds absolutely spectacular.


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## Zachik

Mkoll said:


> It does a superb job, IMO. Makes the foam inserts superfluous unnecessary. I barely turn up the second knob and turn up the first knob a little more than that and I'm happy with the sound.





deutschemark said:


> +1. I have the Aeon Flow Closed and my adjustment with the Loki is very similar with the added adjustment of lowering 8k about 1db. Sounds absolutely spectacular.



Sigh... I guess I have to shell more money... 

Thanks guys for the replies!


----------



## Zachik

Quick question before jumping in and buying a Loki:
If my source is a Windows PC - what's the advantage of Loki compared to EQ through the playback software?

Setup is:
Windows 7 or 10 PC -> USB -> Amethyst DAC -> (*maybe add Loki*) -> Amp (Schiit Jot / HeadAmp Gilmore Lite MK2) -> headphones

I understand EQ by software would make the change to the digital audio before going to DAC, vs. Loki which changes analog audio between DAC and Amp. But is the latter better?!  How so (if the answer is "yes")?

Thanks!


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## KewlMunky

Zachik said:


> Quick question before jumping in and buying a Loki:
> If my source is a Windows PC - what's the advantage of Loki compared to EQ through the playback software?
> 
> Setup is:
> ...


Mike's rant here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wha...n-robert-hunter.784471/page-322#post-13748153


----------



## Zachik

KewlMunky said:


> Mike's rant here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wha...n-robert-hunter.784471/page-322#post-13748153


Interesting... Thanks for the link!


----------



## Enochrome

Has anyone used the Loki with speakers? Could this simulate a baffle step correction for DIY speakers? I have a speaker project in the plans, as well as a newly acquired pair of Quad ESL-57's that have a serious mid-bass bump that needs to corrected because of its placement too close to the floor.


----------



## Left Channel

Enochrome said:


> Has anyone used the Loki with speakers? Could this simulate a baffle step correction for DIY speakers? I have a speaker project in the plans, as well as a newly acquired pair of Quad ESL-57's that have a serious mid-bass bump that needs to corrected because of its placement too close to the floor.



I'm using mine to improve midrange on one pair of speakers, and control the treble on another pair. I suppose it could be used to correct that mid-bass bump, but with only four bands I doubt you'd be able to tailor it to sound exactly like the results of a well-designed BSC circuit.


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## arielext

Orderd mine today. Idea is to use it to tune the HEV70 to be a bit less bright and bypass it when I switch to the RPX-33->HEXv2 combo, but who knows how it plays out


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## JamminVMI

Looking fwd to your thoughts when you get it!


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## Vas19

I've had my Loki mini for a few days now and I'm pleasantly surprised. I was worried about it adding a veil to the music even with the dials set to neutral. Turns out the worries were unfounded. It's completely transparent - unless of course, you adjust tone. Good schiit!


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## Bern2

Vas19 said:


> I've had my Loki mini for a few days now and I'm pleasantly surprised. I was worried about it adding a veil to the music even with the dials set to neutral. Turns out the worries were unfounded. It's completely transparent - unless of course, you adjust tone. Good schiit!


Agree...I've been very happy as well.  Consider it a very good purchase.

Bern


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## Tuneslover

Vas19 said:


> I've had my Loki mini for a few days now and I'm pleasantly surprised. I was worried about it adding a veil to the music even with the dials set to neutral. Turns out the worries were unfounded. It's completely transparent - unless of course, you adjust tone. Good schiit!



Good to hear.  I'm planning to purchase one and have it sent to our hotel in NYC when we take a brief vacation there shortly before Christmas.  I'll bring it back within our duty free allowance.


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## arielext

Loki mini is now feeding the HEV70. The tone control is very welcome in this set-up since the HEV70 is a weak (for the money) and bright amp.
Tuned the treble down by ~ 30 deg. maskes the sibilance while not interfering with any other aspect of the beautiful electrostat that is the HE60.

It's way to soon to tell how it will work out but the initial impressions are more then OK. This is how tone control should be executed.


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## arielext

After a few days (~ 2 hours a day) I decided it wasn't the treble that I'd like to change but the (lack of) bass.
Right now I'm dreaming away with some tunes, enjoying the musicality that the HE60 offers.

The difference added by the Loki mini is present and not to ignore; it is amazing for it's money!
One weird thing I noticed though is when I turn the 3rd knob from the left the panning actually change! turn it to the left reduces the lvl in the right channel and the other way around. It does reduce/increase the mid-highs as well as expected! I've only tested this with the Loki mini feeding the HEV70 -> HE60 combi.


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## JamminVMI

arielext said:


> After a few days (~ 2 hours a day) I decided it wasn't the treble that I'd like to change but the (lack of) bass.
> Right now I'm dreaming away with some tunes, enjoying the musicality that the HE60 offers.
> 
> The difference added by the Loki mini is present and not to ignore; it is amazing for it's money!
> One weird thing I noticed though is when I turn the 3rd knob from the left the panning actually change! turn it to the left reduces the lvl in the right channel and the other way around. It does reduce/increase the mid-highs as well as expected! I've only tested this with the Loki mini feeding the HEV70 -> HE60 combi.


Hmm. Might want to ring Schiit abt that 3rd knob, I think... ?


----------



## arielext

JamminVMI said:


> Hmm. Might want to ring Schiit abt that 3rd knob, I think... ?


I might, need to check how my rudistor RPX-33 reacts to it but I'll do that later, at the moment I'm enjoying the tunes with the knob 'centered' (though as more have reported it is not in the center; my OCD is killing me here)


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## JamminVMI

Lol - 


arielext said:


> I might, need to check how my rudistor RPX-33 reacts to it but I'll do that later, at the moment I'm enjoying the tunes with the knob 'centered' (though as more have reported it is not in the center; my OCD is killing me here)


my apologies for interrupting your listening! Enjoy, by all means!


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## arielext

JamminVMI said:


> Lol -
> 
> my apologies for interrupting your listening! Enjoy, by all means!





This only proves the Loki mini is a miracle, even the internet is polite


----------



## JamminVMI

Dying la


arielext said:


> This only proves the Loki mini is a miracle, even the internet is polite


Dying laughing here! Meant what I said. Mentioned as I was writing that it would get a reply! Cheers!


----------



## erics75

spent the weekend trying the loki with my th900 and wanted to share. chain - tidal hifi - modibit - loki mini - magni 3- th900. 

the th900 did NOT like any bass increases. yes the bass output increased, but quality dropped off almost immediately. for those who've heard the th900, you know how powerful it's bass is, and how well controlled. the loki seems to disrupt the control. it got way way way too boomy and resonant. i actually turned the volume down a good 25% for fear of damaging the drivers. it was that distorted and out of control sounding. thankfully flipping the bypass immediately restored order. so long story short, the th900 just didnt seem to like any bass adjustments at all, unless they were reductions. but where's the fun in that! 

the th900 handled the right two knobs much better. both lower and upper treble adjustments were clean and clear. the th900 is bright in general, so it just got brighter when adjusting up, but the quality did not appear to degrade much. i personally like the treble on the th900 so i found myself not adjusting it at all. for some vocal intensive tracks i'd give the 2k knob a slight boost to bring them out, but overall i felt no adjustments sounded best. 

curious if any other th900 owners have tried the loki, and if their bass performance suffered as much as mine. off topic a bit, but i love the magni 3 with the th900. lots of control, and smooths the treble out a bit. the jotunheim in comparison slams harder down low, but has more energetic highs. they sometimes have a metallica glare/sheen, that becomes distracting. not so with the magni 3. the jot bass control is better though, as are micro detail. it's a coin toss i guess.....


----------



## erics75

wanted to share a side effect of owning the loki mini for a month or so now. it's making me consolidate my headphone inventory! why? easy, i dont need so many headphones with differing sound signatures. i find a smaller handful of headphones that take adjustments well, plus the loki, can mimic the larger set easily. obviously the technicalities of the individual sets wont change. my t70 doesnt suddenly resolve as much detail as the hd800. or have the bass slam and control of the th900. but i can tweak it to sound reasonably close in overall character, so that i dont feel the need to have the others. this allows me to sell off sets and invest in my other hobbies. i'm still in the process of narrowing down my collection, and i do want to invest in a stax system, but overall, i think when all is said and done, i can happily live with 2-3 sets, vs 6-8. 

this makes me wonder if tone control was killed off by manufacturers in the 80s/90s so that we'd spend more on hardware? just a thought.... 

anyone else out there finding themselves using less headphones with the loki as well?


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## Tuneslover (Nov 21, 2017)

erics75 said:


> wanted to share a side effect of owning the loki mini for a month or so now. it's making me consolidate my headphone inventory! why? easy, i dont need so many headphones with differing sound signatures. i find a smaller handful of headphones that take adjustments well, plus the loki, can mimic the larger set easily. obviously the technicalities of the individual sets wont change. my t70 doesnt suddenly resolve as much detail as the hd800. or have the bass slam and control of the th900. but i can tweak it to sound reasonably close in overall character, so that i dont feel the need to have the others. this allows me to sell off sets and invest in my other hobbies. i'm still in the process of narrowing down my collection, and i do want to invest in a stax system, but overall, i think when all is said and done, i can happily live with 2-3 sets, vs 6-8.
> 
> this makes me wonder if tone control was killed off by manufacturers in the 80s/90s so that we'd spend more on hardware? just a thought....
> 
> anyone else out there finding themselves using less headphones with the loki as well?



Thanks for the feedback.  I am planning on buying one next month myself.  It sounds like you are saying that the Loki is doing a reasonably effective job in fine tuning the sound signature to your liking.  I see that you have the HD650.  Have you had an opportunity to try the Loki on it?  If so, how effectively does the Loki smoothen out/soften the mid bass hump?


----------



## Bern2

erics75 said:


> wanted to share a side effect of owning the loki mini for a month or so now. it's making me consolidate my headphone inventory! why? easy, i dont need so many headphones with differing sound signatures. i find a smaller handful of headphones that take adjustments well, plus the loki, can mimic the larger set easily. obviously the technicalities of the individual sets wont change. my t70 doesnt suddenly resolve as much detail as the hd800. or have the bass slam and control of the th900. but i can tweak it to sound reasonably close in overall character, so that i dont feel the need to have the others. this allows me to sell off sets and invest in my other hobbies. i'm still in the process of narrowing down my collection, and i do want to invest in a stax system, but overall, i think when all is said and done, i can happily live with 2-3 sets, vs 6-8.
> 
> this makes me wonder if tone control was killed off by manufacturers in the 80s/90s so that we'd spend more on hardware? just a thought....
> 
> anyone else out there finding themselves using less headphones with the loki as well?



I found it to be a worthwhile purchase.  In my case, I'm using it to compensate for actual recordings and not so much the headphones themselves.  Using Sonarworks for that.  (HD800).  I haven't done a thorough listen yet using the Loki and Z1R.  

Bern


----------



## erics75

Tuneslover said:


> Thanks for the feedback.  I am planning on buying one next month myself.  It sounds like you are saying that the Loki is doing a reasonably effective job in fine tuning the sound signature to your liking.  I see that you have the HD650.  Have you had an opportunity to try the Loki on it?  If so, how effectively does the Loki smoothen out/soften the mid bass hump?


i found the loki to be only mildly effective with the 650 and it's bass. the 650 doesnt like any increases at all, it distorts quickly. as for reducing that mid bass hump, it's only ok. you can reduce the overall midbass level, but it's uneven sounding. it's like the 650's midbass humps are in between the frequencies schiit chose for adjustment (20hz, 400hz, 2khz, 8khz). i'm having a hard time putting what i heard into words, but it just sounded a bit odd, when compared to the 650's native response. 

where i found the loki very useful with the 650 was the upper frequencies. i found it tolerated moderate boosts to it's lower and upper treble quite well, giving it a more airy and open sound. i found it much more balanced sounding like that. but nothing i did on the bass side sounded quite right. it wasnt horrible sounding (unless increasing subbass, that was BAD...), but i just didnt like it as much as leaving it alone.


----------



## slex

Is there a chance a more beefy amp can boost the lows better in Loki? Like jotuhiem compare to M3?


----------



## Tuneslover

slex said:


> Is there a chance a more beefy amp can boost the lows better in Loki? Like jotuhiem compare to M3?



True.  Coincidentally enough that's where I was planning to connect the Loki.


----------



## slex

Tuneslover said:


> True.  Coincidentally enough that's where I was planning to connect the Loki.


Same here and i wanna find out if it does better in boosting pure class A amp or class AB like jotunheim.


----------



## erics75

slex said:


> Same here and i wanna find out if it does better in boosting pure class A amp or class AB like jotunheim.


i think the 650's bass sounds best out of the jotunheim with a balanced cable. it's good with the m3, but better with the jot. the jot in general seems to have more slam and bass control than the m3, especially via the balanced output. i dont think that's a shortcoming of the m3, just a tuning decision by schiit. the m3 imo sounds A LOT like the asgard 2, minus the A2's slight haze. it's an incredible little amp, especially considering the price. 

if you like the 650's sound signature, but want tighter, more articulate bass, i'd suggest trying to listen to the b&o h6 gen2. pair that with a loki and bring down the 8k knob to about 11oclock, while increasing the 2k knob to 1oclock. what that will do is calm the brightness a bit, while pulling the upper mids slightly more forward. it's really surprising how similar the h6 sounds to the 650 after adjustments. not as organic and smooth sounding, but warm like the 650, with much better bass control and slam. similar soundstages, and overall detail levels. i think the 650 is the better set overall, but from a bass first perspective, the h6 takes the cake for me. just tossing that out there as an alternative.


----------



## treecloud

erics75 said:


> spent the weekend trying the loki with my th900 and wanted to share. chain - tidal hifi - modibit - loki mini - magni 3- th900.
> 
> the th900 did NOT like any bass increases. yes the bass output increased, but quality dropped off almost immediately. for those who've heard the th900, you know how powerful it's bass is, and how well controlled. the loki seems to disrupt the control. it got way way way too boomy and resonant. i actually turned the volume down a good 25% for fear of damaging the drivers. it was that distorted and out of control sounding. thankfully flipping the bypass immediately restored order. so long story short, the th900 just didnt seem to like any bass adjustments at all, unless they were reductions. but where's the fun in that!
> 
> ...



I've had similar experience EQing bass on dynamic driver headphones. In my experience planar drivers take bass EQ much better, a good thing since also in my experience they tend to need it. I would guess the reason for this is planars have much larger surface area than dynamics which couples air better (needed esp at low freqs), and consequently planars are not running near compression limits as dynamic driver designs tend to.

I've heard this (good) low bass EQ effect with original Stax SR-Lambda, Fostex T50RP, and most recently HifiMan 400S. The Stax have the largest driver area of these, and it went from very thin sounding to a bass monster. And the amazing level of high freq detail was undisturbed, resulting in very impressive performance overall. The Fostex has a considerably smaller driver area but it took as much boost as needed and remained composed. EQing the 400S drives home just how good a value they really are, they remind me of the electrostatics...not quite as much high freq detail, but overall musicality on par.

Leaving me to guess the Magni3, Loki, 400S combo is a hell of a bargain. (I'm using o2+ODAC and JRiver EQ function).


----------



## Alcophone

erics75 said:


> if you like the 650's sound signature, but want tighter, more articulate bass, i'd suggest trying to listen to the b&o h6 gen2.


Or get the HD660S and skip the Loki  Its tonal balance was spot on for me, but I listened to it for at most 30 min.


----------



## erics75

Alcophone said:


> Or get the HD660S and skip the Loki  Its tonal balance was spot on for me, but I listened to it for at most 30 min.


i cant wait to try the 660s! how did the bass level compare to the 650? i'm seeing differing opinions. some say it's just as bassy as the 650, but cleaner with faster decay, giving the illusion of reduced bass. others say it's straight up less bass than the 650 any way you look at it. i'm hoping it will have the same overall bass level, but with faster decay and better control and speed.


----------



## erics75

treecloud said:


> I've had similar experience EQing bass on dynamic driver headphones. In my experience planar drivers take bass EQ much better, a good thing since also in my experience they tend to need it. I would guess the reason for this is planars have much larger surface area than dynamics which couples air better (needed esp at low freqs), and consequently planars are not running near compression limits as dynamic driver designs tend to.
> 
> I've heard this (good) low bass EQ effect with original Stax SR-Lambda, Fostex T50RP, and most recently HifiMan 400S. The Stax have the largest driver area of these, and it went from very thin sounding to a bass monster. And the amazing level of high freq detail was undisturbed, resulting in very impressive performance overall. The Fostex has a considerably smaller driver area but it took as much boost as needed and remained composed. EQing the 400S drives home just how good a value they really are, they remind me of the electrostatics...not quite as much high freq detail, but overall musicality on par.
> 
> Leaving me to guess the Magni3, Loki, 400S combo is a hell of a bargain. (I'm using o2+ODAC and JRiver EQ function).


yeah my ether c takes anything the loki can throw at it like a champ! it doesnt always sound good, per se, but not from distortion as much as just being too skewed in it's tonal balance. the dynamic driver set i have that seems to love the loki is my beyerdynamic t70 with tesla drivers. it takes the loki's adjustments almost as well as the ether. the tesla drivers are stiff, with strong magnets. i wonder if besides surface area, the rigidity of the driver, or maybe strength of magnetic field also plays a part in how well a driver responds to eq? totally guessing, my understanding of the tech side is bad....really bad..... 

i had an o2/odac, and i'd suggest first just swapping the loki in for jriver first, see how that sounds. the m3 is incredible, but how much different it will sound vs the o2, i'm not so sure. better? yeah, i think so. but how much better is the question. the added power for planars is nice though. but one thing i always liked about my o2 was how transparent it was. besides a slight metallic etching up top, it was quite clear, much like the m3. my thought is an o2 to m3 swap might be more of a side-grade vs upgrade. jotunheim would be a nice upgrade though. as much as i love my m3, i still think the jot is superior in every way, despite it's slight brightness.


----------



## Alcophone

erics75 said:


> i cant wait to try the 660s! how did the bass level compare to the 650? i'm seeing differing opinions. some say it's just as bassy as the 650, but cleaner with faster decay, giving the illusion of reduced bass. others say it's straight up less bass than the 650 any way you look at it. i'm hoping it will have the same overall bass level, but with faster decay and better control and speed.


I haven't tried to the HD650 for very long because I really didn't like it (after listening to HD660S, HD800 and HD600S). It smeared everything so much that I would describe it as more lazy than laid back. I didn't notice more bass than the other three.
The HD660S has slightly more than neutral bass, quite meaty, tight enough and nicely rolling off towards to low end without getting distorted (just less loud). Very nicely done. Very pleasant to listen to.


----------



## treecloud

erics75 said:


> yeah my ether c takes anything the loki can throw at it like a champ! it doesnt always sound good, per se, but not from distortion as much as just being too skewed in it's tonal balance. the dynamic driver set i have that seems to love the loki is my beyerdynamic t70 with tesla drivers. it takes the loki's adjustments almost as well as the ether. the tesla drivers are stiff, with strong magnets. i wonder if besides surface area, the rigidity of the driver, or maybe strength of magnetic field also plays a part in how well a driver responds to eq? totally guessing, my understanding of the tech side is bad....really bad.....
> 
> i had an o2/odac, and i'd suggest first just swapping the loki in for jriver first, see how that sounds. the m3 is incredible, but how much different it will sound vs the o2, i'm not so sure. better? yeah, i think so. but how much better is the question. the added power for planars is nice though. but one thing i always liked about my o2 was how transparent it was. besides a slight metallic etching up top, it was quite clear, much like the m3. my thought is an o2 to m3 swap might be more of a side-grade vs upgrade. jotunheim would be a nice upgrade though. as much as i love my m3, i still think the jot is superior in every way, despite it's slight brightness.


----------



## treecloud

Interesting comment the Ether C still sounds skewed after EQ. Would seem to imply the 4 band Loki is not sufficiently flexible for that particular set of cans?

I'd like to get a Loki because it would give me "system wide" EQ (I like Tidal too) whereas now EQ is only with JRiver (which has 10 bands). But o2+ODAC is integrated, can't get a Loki in there, so I am considering Magni 3 + Loki and for now just use the ODAC out for dac only. But I'm not in a hurry to do anything at the moment! Pretty happy with what I'm hearing already


----------



## slex

I have a vintage NAD3020i with its own tone control. And i wonder if Loki does it better...expecting Loki this week.


----------



## Tuneslover

slex said:


> I have a vintage NAD3020i with its own tone control. And i wonder if Loki does it better...expecting Loki this week.



I would be interested in hearing your findings.


----------



## VRacer-111

Got my Loki in today, traded my Meier Audio JAZZ-ff amp for it. Works well for the headphones I thought it would (SHP9500, M1060, and HD700) and doesn't work well with my modded TH-X00PH (which I also figured would be the case). All in all, very glad I was able to convert an amp I no longer wanted into a brand new Schiit Loki, definitely brings more to my setup:


----------



## slex (Nov 25, 2017)

VRacer-111 said:


> Got my Loki in today, traded my Meier Audio JAZZ-ff amp for it. Works well for the headphones I thought it would (SHP9500, M1060, and HD700) and doesn't work well with my modded TH-X00PH (which I also figured would be the case). All in all, very glad I was able to convert an amp I no longer wanted into a brand new Schiit Loki, definitely brings more to my setup:



You have almost same identical headphones as me and amp except for 1060 and that big Gustard. Nice mod on the H10. My H10 was screwed by overheating.

May i know what mod you did on THX00? I have the #33 Mohagony


----------



## VRacer-111

slex said:


> You have almost same identical headphones as me and amp except for 1060 and that big Gustard. Nice mod on the H10. My H10 was screwed by overheating.
> 
> May i know what mod you did on THX00? I have the #33 Mohagony


See my profile page for the mods on the first TH-X00 PH (also have a stock one)


----------



## jaxz

Hi, any experience with Grado headphones? Thanks.


----------



## kyle1010

I feel dirty. Just ordered today off of some early impressions in this thread. Dirty because I’m running Hugo 2—>WA22 w/ all NOS tubes—>LCD-4s and I’m about to throw a very inexpensive link into that chain. But I mean, let’s be honest here, I’m a basshead. I listened to about 90% high quality electronic music and 10% acoustic chill stuff occasionally. Going from Mojo to Hugo 2 gave me a massive jump in imaging and detail, but took away my slam. And I lives for the slam. I can get the system to kick pretty decent if I crank up the WA22 to 3 o’clock, but not for long term listening. It sounds better bass-wise but leaves my ears ringing after less than a minute. Part of me was thinking sell the H2 and get a Hugo TT which has slightly less clarity but more impact than H2. OR..grab this Loki, which allegedly is transparent enough that I won’t lose any detail, and if I did it probably wouldn’t be as much as stepping down to the lesser dac chip in the older TT. So let’s hope this thing is a win.


----------



## Alcophone

kyle1010 said:


> I feel dirty. Just ordered today off of some early impressions in this thread. Dirty because I’m running Hugo 2—>WA22 w/ all NOS tubes—>LCD-4s and I’m about to throw a very inexpensive link into that chain. But I mean, let’s be honest here, I’m a basshead. I listened to about 90% high quality electronic music and 10% acoustic chill stuff occasionally. Going from Mojo to Hugo 2 gave me a massive jump in imaging and detail, but took away my slam. And I lives for the slam. I can get the system to kick pretty decent if I crank up the WA22 to 3 o’clock, but not for long term listening. It sounds better bass-wise but leaves my ears ringing after less than a minute. Part of me was thinking sell the H2 and get a Hugo TT which has slightly less clarity but more impact than H2. OR..grab this Loki, which allegedly is transparent enough that I won’t lose any detail, and if I did it probably wouldn’t be as much as stepping down to the lesser dac chip in the older TT. So let’s hope this thing is a win.


Wonderful  Curious to hear back about your impressions!


----------



## KewlMunky

kyle1010 said:


> I feel dirty. Just ordered today off of some early impressions in this thread. Dirty because I’m running Hugo 2—>WA22 w/ all NOS tubes—>LCD-4s and I’m about to throw a very inexpensive link into that chain. But I mean, let’s be honest here, I’m a basshead. I listened to about 90% high quality electronic music and 10% acoustic chill stuff occasionally. Going from Mojo to Hugo 2 gave me a massive jump in imaging and detail, but took away my slam. And I lives for the slam. I can get the system to kick pretty decent if I crank up the WA22 to 3 o’clock, but not for long term listening. It sounds better bass-wise but leaves my ears ringing after less than a minute. Part of me was thinking sell the H2 and get a Hugo TT which has slightly less clarity but more impact than H2. OR..grab this Loki, which allegedly is transparent enough that I won’t lose any detail, and if I did it probably wouldn’t be as much as stepping down to the lesser dac chip in the older TT. So let’s hope this thing is a win.



Just think of it as investing in a better chance at them producing a beefier, balanced version down the road.


----------



## kyle1010

Alcophone said:


> Wonderful  Curious to hear back about your impressions!



Will do! I imagine the big LCD-4 planars will take the EQing just fine.


----------



## kyle1010

KewlMunky said:


> Just think of it as investing in a better chance at them producing a beefier, balanced version down the road.



Exactly.


----------



## Kn1nJa

kyle1010 said:


> Will do! I imagine the big LCD-4 planars will take the EQing just fine.



I know they are leagues different, but my EL-8s handle it very well. One of the biggest benefits to me is the fact that I can crank up the bass without having to increase the overall volume to extreme levels. Loki mini is probably my favorite piece of schiit I own.


----------



## kyle1010

Kn1nJa said:


> I know they are leagues different, but my EL-8s handle it very well. One of the biggest benefits to me is the fact that I can crank up the bass without having to increase the overall volume to extreme levels. Loki mini is probably my favorite piece of schiit I own.



Oh I bet. I had the EL-8 opens and they were definitely a gateway drug that eventually led me to the 4s. I paired them with a Fiio E12 with the bass boost on and also cranked up the Deadmau5(>album title goes here<)and oh man. Actually, it was your impressions of the Loki that made me pull the trigger. I love all the other sonic qualities in this hobby like micro dynamics, details, imaging, soundstage, tonality, etc, but I neeeed that clean bass slam. I wanted to keep my system simple..dac, amp, cans..but Hugo 2 while astounding as a dac, for my music isn’t potent enough in the lows and and a bit bright in the very top. Hopefully Loki can fix all that.


----------



## Kn1nJa

kyle1010 said:


> Oh I bet. I had the EL-8 opens and they were definitely a gateway drug that eventually led me to the 4s. I paired them with a Fiio E12 with the bass boost on and also cranked up the Deadmau5(>album title goes here<)and oh man. Actually, it was your impressions of the Loki that made me pull the trigger. I love all the other sonic qualities in this hobby like micro dynamics, details, imaging, soundstage, tonality, etc, but I neeeed that clean bass slam. I wanted to keep my system simple..dac, amp, cans..but Hugo 2 while astounding as a dac, for my music isn’t potent enough in the lows and and a bit bright in the very top. Hopefully Loki can fix all that.



It was Deadmau5's album While 1<2 that sealed the deal for me. Acedia totally blew me out of the water with Loki. I have a 12" subwoofer in my car that I blew once while enjoying this song too loudly. (was my first time blowing a sub, so the place I got it from swapped it free of charge .... I've learned since)

Loki even handles some of the "bass test" songs really well. Do a search for the song "White Clouds" by Decaf on youtube (be careful with volume, this song is extremely bass heavy). To my untrained ears there is no distortion even with something crazy like this.

Now I just need to resist the temptation to snag a pair of LCD2 Classics. They're $200 off and I am so tempted. I'm sure they would lead me down a path of no return.


----------



## slex

Just set up Loki. Sticking handphone black stud sticker on each knob and lightened the firing glare from the power LED.

Those who have HD700 , what your graph? Left to right?


----------



## slex

And btw, does Loki sounds better after a breaking in period?


----------



## slex

After an hour  listening with HD700 with Loki . My final search to improve HD700 is finally over. From sometimes fatique and intoreable long listening into an ethereal non-fatique HD700. My graphs are below st the moment.


----------



## VRacer-111

My settings so far for the HD700, still need more time with the HD700:






The M1060 has been too awesome to listen to with the Loki EQ and has taken the majority of my listening time this weekend - fairly close sounding to my modded TH-X00 PH now! The modded SHP9500 also quite awesome sounding as well... that little Schiit rocks!


----------



## hikaru12 (Dec 2, 2017)

I noticed the HD700's respond really well to graphic equalization (I'm about the only one that doesn't use the Peace GUI frontend for EqualizerAPO) and I don't like the fact that I have to go in every time and disable it because it applies it at the device level. I'm sure there's a way around that but the Loki seems like the perfect solution to boost the 700's already excellent bass and take down the treble a bit, and bring up the mids a tad so it's strengths aren't knocked off by modern artists sibilance (a lot of them like applying treble to already sharp tracks). Will report back when I get the Loki.

EDIT: Didn't see the previous posts, will definently have to try those settings @slex


----------



## earChasm

hikaru12 said:


> ...I'm sure there's a way around that but the Loki seems like the perfect solution to boost the 700's already excellent bass and take down the treble a bit, and bring up the mids a tad so it's strengths aren't knocked off by modern artists sibilance (a lot of them like applying treble to already sharp tracks).


I did just that for my HD800. It sounds great, no mods necessary :.)
The other thing I like about the Loki is the bypass switch, which I use when listening with the Nighthawk. Just perfect.

Sorry for butting in


----------



## hikaru12

earChasm said:


> I did just that for my HD800. It sounds great, no mods necessary :.)
> The other thing I like about the Loki is the bypass switch, which I use when listening with the Nighthawk. Just perfect.
> 
> Sorry for butting in




Nope, thanks for your contribution! That's good to know the 800's take well to equalization as well. I think because Sennheiser designed the S, 800, and 700's as pretty dynamic drivers that's why they respond so well. This will be even better news since I just ordered the Valhalla 2 which I heard is quite lean but increases soundstage and detail of the 700's. I didn't want to go with a classic warm OTL like the La Figaro to then lose out on the energy and detail these cans can produce so I'm very excited to try out the Loki.


----------



## earChasm

hikaru12 said:


> Nope, thanks for your contribution! That's good to know the 800's take well to equalization as well. I think because Sennheiser designed the S, 800, and 700's as pretty dynamic drivers that's why they respond so well. This will be even better news since I just ordered the Valhalla 2 which I heard is quite lean but increases soundstage and detail of the 700's. I didn't want to go with a classic warm OTL like the La Figaro to then lose out on the energy and detail these cans can produce so I'm very excited to try out the Loki.


Cool. I hope it works out because the Valhalla 2 is also on my radar.


----------



## hikaru12

earChasm said:


> Cool. I hope it works out because the Valhalla 2 is also on my radar.



From what I've read the Valhalla and 800s go together really nicely as do the 650s. It's one of the best non-warm OTL pairings without losing the 800s detail. You can't go wrong for the price otherwise the Crack + Speedball or the Mainline might be a better fit. If I had the money I would have gone with their s.E.X edition and gotten the upgrade for it too as it's basically the Valhalla in a slightly warmer package with more detail and fuller sound. There's something for matching aesthetics though for Schitt haha


----------



## earChasm

hikaru12 said:


> You can't go wrong for the price otherwise the Crack + Speedball


If one pops-up from a Dutch seller I will jump on it but its easier to score a Val2 :.)


----------



## hikaru12 (Dec 4, 2017)

earChasm said:


> If one pops-up from a Dutch seller I will jump on it but its easier to score a Val2 :.)



So here's my thoughts on the Vally 2 (just got it in today) - it really smooths out these cans quite nicely and adds a nice full body to it. It's able to drive them exceedingly well. I only have my Vally at 12/1 and for quiet listening at 10 which is more than enough. I also adding some EqualizerEPO settings but if you wanted to mimic them with your Loki here's what I would do

From left to right:
1st knob +8 at the 6 o clock position
2nd knob +4 at the 3 o clock position
3rd knob +2 or the 2 o clock position
4th knob -1 at the 11 o clock position

Try those settings and let me know what you think. These basically sound like more detailed HD650's. All day listening is now fully possible.

@slex - I used your equalizer settings in EqualizerAPO right now and they sound great. He's where I'm left with:

1st knob: +8.0dB
2nd knob: +2.0dB
3rd knob: -3.0dB
4th knob: 0.0dB

@earChasm What are your Loki settings for the 800's?


----------



## earChasm (Dec 5, 2017)

hikaru12 said:


> @earChasm What are your Loki settings for the 800's?


Great post!

I bought a used Darkvoice for 200€. Not too expensive considering it costs almost 500€ new (Dutch webstore). So I got something to play with and if I don’t like it I should be able to resell without too much of a lost if any:.) first quick impressive, not bad with the “stock” tubes. I like the extra bass impact and fuller mids. I’m losing out on soundstage tho. I’m a totall newb with tubes.  So I dont know the status (old, bad, good whatever) of these tubes, I’m looking around to buy some new one just to be sure.

My Loki settings with the Asgard 2 are:

1 - 3 o’clock
2 - 2 o’clock
3 - 12 o’clock (center)
4 - 10 o’clock

Ok, off to work..got to hurry now becauses of you :.b

Oh, as of now Darkvoice vs Asgard 2? Asgard 2 wins!

! Both with Loki enabled


----------



## sosrah

I received my Loki this week: i tested it with my Violectric dac and amp and Sony Z1r.
It feel a little light in hand but the potentiometers and switch are sturdy.
At first i checked it to find if adding loki in the signal path would negatively affect the sound: i was worried about detail, transparency and soundstage but my system don't seems to be affected (to me)by any loss.
Now the adjustment; the problem that i wanted to solve was a certain slowness in the rhythm i experienced on some songs with a lot of bass: with great surprise  with a minimum of adjustment at mid bass and bass i obtained the result maintaining at the same time the character of the headphones.


----------



## bzzzt

Love my Loki mini. I use it with my Th900 and HD660S. In case Schiit is listening, consider me another customer for whom an uber Loki with balanced in/out in a gungnir-width chassis would be a definite purchase.


----------



## earChasm

bzzzt said:


> Love my Loki mini. I use it with my Th900 and HD660S. In case Schiit is listening, consider me another customer for whom an uber Loki with balanced in/out in a gungnir-width chassis would be a definite purchase.


That would be nice and while you at it....make me an Asgard 2 sized unit with 2 extra knobs :.)


----------



## sosrah

One vote for a Loki with balanced connectors from me too: i would one for my speaker setup.


----------



## VRacer-111

Would also like an XLR connector version, for my Gustard X20U DAC/H10 amp combo. Would be nice to have a few more bands as well, or the ability to have more choice in frequency for each band, like say a 3 position toggle switch for each knob . 

Did simple, easy mod to my Loki...couldn't take the stock LED intensity or look:






6 layers of Kapton tape over the LED...1/8" punch used to cut the circle out. Much better match to the LED on my Gustard H10s now:






Still need to wrap the LED with a layer or two of Kapton tape for full effect - to get rid of that harsh light bleeding through the knob holes...


----------



## Share2Care

Hi All....In need of some guidance/help please

Apologies for not being able to think this one out on my own but would a Loki work well together with a Jotenheim? Would someone walk me through it connection wise and how it would be the main out for my headphones etc?>

Thank you very much indeed!

Cheers


----------



## Share2Care

Hi All....In need of some guidance/help please

Apologies for not being able to think this one out on my own but would a Loki work well together with a Jotenheim? Would someone walk me through it connection wise and how it would be the main out for my headphones etc?>

Thank you very much indeed!

Cheers


----------



## Left Channel

Share2Care said:


> Hi All....In need of some guidance/help please
> 
> Apologies for not being able to think this one out on my own but would a Loki work well together with a Jotenheim? Would someone walk me through it connection wise and how it would be the main out for my headphones etc?>
> 
> ...



The Loki would sit between your DAC and your Jotunheim. The Loki has only single-ended (RCA) inputs and outputs, so you would connect it to the Jotunheim "SE IN" jacks. If you only use balanced headphones and amps, perhaps it would be better to wait for a possible "Loki Maxi" that may include balanced features. Some say it is a myth that balanced headphones are better. I have no opinion on that.


----------



## Share2Care

Left Channel said:


> The Loki would sit between your DAC and your Jotunheim. The Loki has only single-ended (RCA) inputs and outputs, so you would connect it to the Jotunheim "SE IN" jacks. If you only use balanced headphones and amps, perhaps it would be better to wait for a possible "Loki Maxi" that may include balanced features. Some say it is a myth that balanced headphones are better. I have no opinion on that.



Thank you kindly for your reply. The Jotenheim is a one-stop shop with phenomenal value as a headphone + DAC  amplifier. Even as that stands, There are free RCA connectors on the rear so would this work, as in would it work DEFINITELY?!

Much Appreciated


----------



## bzzzt

Share2Care said:


> Thank you kindly for your reply. The Jotenheim is a one-stop shop with phenomenal value as a headphone + DAC  amplifier. Even as that stands, There are free RCA connectors on the rear so would this work, as in would it work DEFINITELY?!
> 
> Much Appreciated



If you are using the Jot as both Dac and Amp (digital in, headphone plugged in front) then this will not work. It will only work when you have separate components.


----------



## Left Channel (Dec 18, 2017)

Share2Care said:


> Thank you kindly for your reply. The Jotenheim is a one-stop shop with phenomenal value as a headphone + DAC  amplifier. Even as that stands, There are free RCA connectors on the rear so would this work, as in would it work DEFINITELY?!
> 
> Much Appreciated



Thanks @bzzzt, I was about to correct my original post to say it will only work with headphones if the Jot is used with another DAC. If used with only a Jot, the Loki can only EQ the Pre Out signal to an amplifier.  I keep forgetting the Jot is an all-in-one. I think I'm going to stop answering questions about stuff I don't have right in front of me. Sorry @Share2Care.


----------



## jnak00

Could you use a pair of 1/4"->RCA adapters and go Jot headphone out->adapter->Loki->adapter->headphones?
Kind of a convoluted way to do it and probably not ideal, but I imagine that would work.


----------



## Left Channel

jnak00 said:


> Could you use a pair of 1/4"->RCA adapters and go Jot headphone out->adapter->Loki->adapter->headphones?
> Kind of a convoluted way to do it and probably not ideal, but I imagine that would work.



Loki is not intended for amplified signals. I don't think the manufacturer would recommend that.


----------



## Share2Care

Left Channel said:


> Thanks @bzzzt, I was about to correct my original post to say it will only work with headphones if the Jot is used with another DAC. If used with only a Jot, the Loki can only EQ the Pre Out signal to an amplifier.  I keep forgetting the Jot is an all-in-one. I think I'm going to stop answering questions about stuff I don't have right in front of me. Sorry @Share2Care.



I certainly appreciate your help. I asked a question followed by an answer that I really was expecting to receive as the Jot is unique as all things lol. 

Cheers 

Upgrade time lol


----------



## koover

This really sucks. I was just going to pull the trigger on this but it won't work with my current configuration and it isn't going to change either. Please confirm I'm correct in my statement or if there a work around with?........
PC>Mimby>SYS>LYR2>Jot
If The Loki sits between DAC and amp, the SYS taking that slot already. The SYS is full obviously and wouldn't that be where the Loki would hook up into? I also still want the capabilities to be able to swap between amps when I want to without tearing my gear apart. Clear up my head if I'm wrong in my thought process and comfort my crushed feelings if I'm dead in the water.


----------



## JamminVMI

koover said:


> This really sucks. I was just going to pull the trigger on this but it won't work with my current configuration and it isn't going to change either. Please confirm I'm correct in my statement or if there a work around with?........
> PC>Mimby>SYS>LYR2>Jot
> If The Loki sits between DAC and amp, the SYS taking that slot already. The SYS is full obviously and wouldn't that be where the Loki would hook up into? I also still want the capabilities to be able to swap between amps when I want to without tearing my gear apart. Clear up my head if I'm wrong in my thought process and comfort my crushed feelings if I'm dead in the water.



So the sys allows you to branch to either Lyr ir Jot, right? If so, go from Mimby to Loki, then to Sys, then out to Lyr/Jot as normal. Complex, but cool!


----------



## Left Channel (Dec 25, 2017)

@koover that's quite a daisy chain! I don't own most of those components, and don't know if it matters to ask "Lyr or Lyr 2?", but it seems to me you can insert the Loki Mini between the Mimby and the SYS if I'm understanding how it branches from there.


----------



## koover

JamminVMI said:


> So the sys allows you to branch to either Lyr ir Jot, right? If so, go from Mimby to Loki, then to Sys, then out to Lyr/Jot as normal. Complex, but cool!


 Actually quite simple. As you said, just remove the RCA's from the back of the Mimby to SYS and replace with RCA's from Mimby>Loki>SYS> L2 >Jot.  Don't know where my mind went. Getting old I guess. 
Yes, the SYS lets me control both amps with a simple push of a button on it's front panel and inputting the HP cable into either amp at any given moment. Very cool for A/B'ing tracks, HP's, tubes, etc. Love it! 



Left Channel said:


> @koover that's quite a daisy chain! I don't own most of those components, and don't know if it matters to ask "Lyr or Lyr 2?", but it seems to me you can insert the Loki Mini between the Mimby and the SYS if I'm understanding how it branches from there.


Thanks man! It's a LYR2. You're correct in it's branching. I guess I just went brain dead for a few moments. Thanks to you both for clearing up my momentary lapse of reasoning!


----------



## JamminVMI

koover said:


> Actually quite simple. As you said, just remove the RCA's from the back of the Mimby to SYS and replace with RCA's from Mimby>Loki>SYS> L2 >Jot.  Don't know where my mind went. Getting old I guess.
> Yes, the SYS lets me control both amps with a simple push of a button on it's front panel and inputting the HP cable into either amp at any given moment. Very cool for A/B'ing tracks, HP's, tubes, etc. Love it!
> 
> 
> Thanks man! It's a LYR2. You're correct in it's branching. I guess I just went brain dead for a few moments. Thanks to you both for clearing up my momentary lapse of reasoning!



Lol, s’ok. I actually do the same thing, kinda, but the two end branches of my chain are the magni 3 and vali 2... loki sits right after my modi 2 uber...


----------



## Left Channel

koover said:


> Thanks man! It's a LYR2. You're correct in it's branching. I guess I just went brain dead for a few moments. Thanks to you both for clearing up my momentary lapse of reasoning!



No worries. Adding a Jot to the discussion here confused the heck out of me just the other day.

Best that I keep my Schiit stoopid simple. My main lineup still looks pretty much like it did back on page 12:


----------



## notfitforpublic

koover said:


> This really sucks. I was just going to pull the trigger on this but it won't work with my current configuration and it isn't going to change either. Please confirm I'm correct in my statement or if there a work around with?........
> PC>Mimby>SYS>LYR2>Jot
> If The Loki sits between DAC and amp, the SYS taking that slot already. The SYS is full obviously and wouldn't that be where the Loki would hook up into? I also still want the capabilities to be able to swap between amps when I want to without tearing my gear apart. Clear up my head if I'm wrong in my thought process and comfort my crushed feelings if I'm dead in the water.



You can put the Loki before or after the SYS with out issues I believe. Probably depend heavily on how you're using the SYS and how you want the Loki to effect the devices attached to the SYS.


----------



## koover

The SYS is hooked up backwards with the POT maxed. I use it to control both amps for whichever I want to use. Can it be compatible hooking up Loki while still maintaining control of both amps?


----------



## Astral Abyss

koover said:


> The SYS is hooked up backwards with the POT maxed. I use it to control both amps for whichever I want to use. Can it be compatible hooking up Loki while still maintaining control of both amps?



Yes, just put the Loki before the SYS.  The Loki has a bypass switch and it completely removes itself from the chain when engaged.


----------



## JamminVMI

koover said:


> The SYS is hooked up backwards with the POT maxed. I use it to control both amps for whichever I want to use. Can it be compatible hooking up Loki while still maintaining control of both amps?



That’s the way mine is...


----------



## Tuneslover

I too try to keep my Bimby>Jotunheim setup as pure as possible however since purchasing the Loki I have softened my view on Equalizers.  Using my HD650's I apply the Loki extremely modestly but just enough to give my HD650 a smidchen more high frequency and a tiny bit more sub bass. To me it still sounds like an HD650 but slightly tailored and more enjoyable to my ears (TMEs).  I love the defeat/EQ engaged switch to be able to do quick comparisons.


----------



## Geezer Rock 001

I am considering a Loki Mini as an addition to my set up. After reading the thread I have a couple of questions.

    I have seen several comments about where to put the four EQ levels for specific makes and models of headphones. Back in the old days when I was EQing a home system, you had to EQ to the recording levels of the album you were playing, not the speakers.  Can someone explain that one to me, please.

    If in fact the Loki can cure new headphone wanderlust by making you fall back in love with your current headphones every time you tweak the settings, it seems like a no brainer for the cost.

   Also, I have seen a few for sale posts for Loki's.  Does the novelty wear off of it or is it a must have part of your headphone setup?

  Thanks for your comments.


----------



## JamminVMI

Geezer Rock 001 said:


> I am considering a Loki Mini as an addition to my set up. After reading the thread I have a couple of questions.
> 
> I have seen several comments about where to put the four EQ levels for specific makes and models of headphones. Back in the old days when I was EQing a home system, you had to EQ to the recording levels of the album you were playing, not the speakers.  Can someone explain that one to me, please.
> 
> ...



My 50p...

Loki is a permanent part of my setup. I have several sets of cans, each of which uses different loki settings, which means that I try to get the headphones as neutral as possible (perhaps with some personal preferences dialled in), and try to hear what the artist intended (as opposed to eq-ing each album. But hey, nothing wrong with that, either, Loki is a wonderful gadget (no pun or other Schiit reference there) that invites experimentation. 

J


----------



## earChasm

Same here, I always use the Loki with my HD800 on fixed positions. For my NH it depends, sometimes on sometimes off. I’m still in the market for a “normal” sized Loki :.)


----------



## Raptor34

earChasm said:


> Same here, I always use the Loki with my HD800 on fixed positions. For my NH it depends, sometimes on sometimes off. I’m still in the market for a “normal” sized Loki :.)


Ever since my new Gumby got installed in my system, I can no longer use the Loki mini.  All my amps have XLR inputs and I'm going to use them, so Loki gets put back in its box. #So Sad.   I sure hope Schiit has a balanced Loki box in our future say in the Jotunheim form factor.

Cheers All


----------



## Zachik

Raptor34 said:


> Ever since my new Gumby got installed in my system, I can no longer use the Loki mini.  All my amps have XLR inputs and I'm going to use them, so Loki gets put back in its box. #So Sad.   I sure hope Schiit has a balanced Loki box in our future say in the Jotunheim form factor.
> 
> Cheers All


Hopefully, a new Loki in Jot form factor would also match Jot build quality...
I own the Loki Mini, and I am NOT impressed by Schiit QC / build quality. Every knob is at different length 
That is NOT the first Schiit product I own, but definitely the schittiest build quality / quality control...
I did contact Schiit, BTW, and their response is that as far as they're concerned - nothing is wrong with it (I did attach photos that clearly show the visual eye sore issue).


----------



## omniweltall

sling5s said:


> The Loki works great!!!
> HD800 Recessed Mids Solved: add a little midbass and mids and it's perfect!


Whats your setting for hd800?


----------



## sling5s

omniweltall said:


> Whats your setting for hd800?



2 o clock on both 400 and 2000.


----------



## earChasm

Zachik said:


> I did contact Schiit, BTW, and their response is that as far as they're concerned - nothing is wrong with it (I did attach photos that clearly show the visual eye sore issue).


Mmm, strange response. Depending on how old your Loki was they could have proposed a switch, just to be client friendly. On the other hand, that could backfire with massive exchange request tho my Loki is fine. Then again, they could at least acknowledge your findings although it doesnt affect the working of the device. Or is that bad for business?


----------



## Zachik

earChasm said:


> Mmm, strange response. Depending on how old your Loki was they could have proposed a switch, just to be client friendly. On the other hand, that could backfire with massive exchange request tho my Loki is fine. Then again, they could at least acknowledge your findings although it doesnt affect the working of the device. Or is that bad for business?


I bought it in Dec. 2017, and been e-mailing Schiit since before Christmas! Took them 2+ weeks (and 2 reminders by me) to even respond...
I never had issues with Schiit before (this is my 4th Schiit product), but would be VERY hesitant to purchase Schiit products in the future. 

One disappointed Schiit customer here


----------



## rgmffn

Zachik said:


> I bought it in Dec. 2017, and been e-mailing Schiit since before Christmas! Took them 2+ weeks (and 2 reminders by me) to even respond...
> I never had issues with Schiit before (this is my 4th Schiit product), but would be VERY hesitant to purchase Schiit products in the future.
> 
> One disappointed Schiit customer here



Care to share pics of your issues?


----------



## JamminVMI

Zachik said:


> I bought it in Dec. 2017, and been e-mailing Schiit since before Christmas! Took them 2+ weeks (and 2 reminders by me) to even respond...
> I never had issues with Schiit before (this is my 4th Schiit product), but would be VERY hesitant to purchase Schiit products in the future.
> 
> One disappointed Schiit customer here


Mine is a wee bit wonky at all balls as well, but i leave it the way i used it, so am not bothered.


----------



## technobear

Zachik said:


> I bought it in Dec. 2017, and been e-mailing Schiit since before Christmas! Took them 2+ weeks (and 2 reminders by me) to even respond...
> I never had issues with Schiit before (this is my 4th Schiit product), but would be VERY hesitant to purchase Schiit products in the future.
> 
> One disappointed Schiit customer here


Can we assume that you realise the knobs just push onto their shafts?

Are they all pushed fully home?

It's a relatively easy thing to line them up.


----------



## Zachik

rgmffn said:


> Care to share pics of your issues?


Will do later today.



technobear said:


> Can we assume that you realise the knobs just push onto their shafts?
> 
> Are they all pushed fully home?
> 
> It's a relatively easy thing to line them up.


That is what I thought, too. they're all pushed fully home (and are at different lengths)... Thinking about it - maybe the solution is to pull a little out all of them, and then push until first one "hits home" against a table top surface. Keeping them all at that length... hmmm.... Will try that when I get home this evening and report back!


----------



## BigAinCA

ok .. after read this I had to go and check mine ... lol   All mine are the same length


----------



## Zachik

Here is a top-view that shows my cosmetic dissatisfaction:




 

I know it is NOT a huge deal, but many (most?) of us are a little OCD / perfectionist in this hobby...


----------



## decodm

Zachik said:


> Here is a top-view that shows my cosmetic dissatisfaction:
> 
> 
> 
> I know it is NOT a huge deal, but many (most?) of us are a little OCD / perfectionist in this hobby...



It does look quite unsightly.


----------



## arielext

My Modi 2 is perfect. Loki mini is quite under par with off-centre knobs and a channel imbalance when the 3rd knob is used.
It as if the Loki is a Monday morning product


----------



## rgmffn

I love my Loki!  With the HPs I'm using now, the M1060s, it's a permanent part of my system. I spent months experimenting with dozens of mod combinations to get them sounding as good as I thought I could get them on their own. Then, I added the Loki. It was the icing on the cake. It brought out what simple modding couldn't obtain. I was amazed at how the few eq adjustments just opened up the sound on these for me. And the bass, oh the bass!  These planar HPs take eq-ing so well. You get just what you're hoping to get. But, that's not always the case.

I also experimented with some AKG Q701s, Senn HD598s and HiFiMan 400i's. (Gen 2)  I was able to eq the top end down some on the Q701s which I think is needed, kicked the bass up a little, but I didn't feel like it did all that much for them, sound wise. The sound is still colored, to me.  I've always liked the way the HD598s sounded, a bit laid back, slow, and could listen to them for "background " listening all day.  I felt the bass needed the most help. But when trying to eq it up some, all it did was make the anemic base sound even worse. Yuck.  So being planars, I had high expectations for the 400i's. Especially the bass, cause I felt the rest of the spectrum was pretty good. I couldn't get that bass to sound right on them either. I finally gave up and and went back to the M1060s .....  OH yeah!  There it is!  They sound near perfect to me. I can't detect anything I'd like to change or hear differently on them. I can't take them off my head now!

For those who might have the M1060s, I have the 20Hz at ~2:30, the 400Hz at ~10:30, the 2K at 0, and the 8K at ~1:30. Maybe I can get a pic. 

Oh, with the higher gain on the 20Hz, l reduced the 400Hz to keep the bass from bleeding into the lower midrange. It seemed to work perfectly. But the sub-bass rocks!


----------



## earChasm

Zachik said:


> I know it is NOT a huge deal, but many (most?) of us are a little OCD / perfectionist in this hobby...


That’s just plain awful. For comparision...


----------



## Zachik

arielext said:


> My Modi 2 is perfect. Loki mini is quite under par with off-centre knobs and a channel imbalance when the 3rd knob is used.
> It as if the Loki is a Monday morning product


I also have good previous experience with Schiit (Modi 2, Fulla, Jot), and this is the first sub-par product (QC wise).



earChasm said:


> That’s just plain awful. For comparision...


Yeah - look MUCH better!

I am glad, in general, that I am not getting "you're a troll" or "Schiit hater go home" type responses 
I really do like Schiit product line, especially the Jot. Was my first mid-fi (above $200) amp... Still use it...

Just to emphasize again - despite the disappointing way it looks (quality wise), it works very well. I might upgrade to a Jot-sized "Loki Uber" if/when it comes out... 
I would have gladly paid $20-30 extra for better build quality and especially better knobs (like the *amazing* volume knob from Rupert Neve's headphone amp. This volume knob is so much fun to use).


----------



## Tuneslover

Zachik said:


> Hopefully, a new Loki in Jot form factor would also match Jot build quality...
> I own the Loki Mini, and I am NOT impressed by Schiit QC / build quality. Every knob is at different length
> That is NOT the first Schiit product I own, but definitely the schittiest build quality / quality control...
> I did contact Schiit, BTW, and their response is that as far as they're concerned - nothing is wrong with it (I did attach photos that clearly show the visual eye sore issue).



I too think the improperly placed control buttons looks terrible from a QC standpoint.  I was hoping that bringing this to their attention in Head-fi would get them to correct this.  However I did purchase a Loki last month and my knobs do click into the default position reasonably close to the centre top of the knobs, not perfect but semi acceptable.  From a functional standpoint however I do like this little thing.  I would be interested in a Bimby/Jot sized unit if there is one in the works.


----------



## Tuneslover

decodm said:


> It does look quite unsightly.



So much so that I can't even see any blemish.


----------



## decodm

Tuneslover said:


> So much so that I can't even see any blemish.



Huh?


----------



## trellus

Zachik said:


> Here is a top-view that shows my cosmetic dissatisfaction:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh my, that looks sloppy as hell, and you’ve sent that pic to Schiit?


----------



## Tuneslover

decodm said:


> Huh?



LOL!  I don't see any blemish.  Where is it?


----------



## decodm

Tuneslover said:


> LOL!  I don't see any blemish.  Where is it?



Come on, you're just pulling my leg, now...


----------



## Tuneslover

decodm said:


> Come on, you're just pulling my leg, now...



Nope, specify what it is that I'm missing.


----------



## Raptor34

Zachik said:


> Hopefully, a new Loki in Jot form factor would also match Jot build quality...
> I own the Loki Mini, and I am NOT impressed by Schiit QC / build quality. Every knob is at different length
> That is NOT the first Schiit product I own, but definitely the schittiest build quality / quality control...
> I did contact Schiit, BTW, and their response is that as far as they're concerned - nothing is wrong with it (I did attach photos that clearly show the visual eye sore issue).



I really wish you hadn't Shanghaied my post.


----------



## Left Channel




----------



## omniweltall (Jan 22, 2018)

Zachik said:


> Here is a top-view that shows my cosmetic dissatisfaction:
> 
> 
> 
> I know it is NOT a huge deal, but many (most?) of us are a little OCD / perfectionist in this hobby...


Cant blame you. Even i cant stand looking at it. And i have average OCD. 

I actually went to my audio shop yesterday and picked & chose my Loki. The 1st Loki they gave me had off-centered knobs. This one is perfect.


----------



## Zachik

trellus said:


> Oh my, that looks sloppy as hell, and you’ve sent that pic to Schiit?


Yup - sent that EXACT photo to Schiit. Their response (this time quoted from the e-mail they sent me after 2+ weeks of no response, although Christmas was in the middle):
"I'm sorry but the volume knobs fall under our range of what is normal and acceptable for the Loki.  It is not eligible for an exchange."

My translation: Loki is inexpensive, so when you buy cheap - do not expect high quality.

My personal opinion is Schiit should charge a little more, and use that money for better knobs and better QC. People that pay $149 would pay $169 for better quality!


----------



## trellus

Zachik said:


> Yup - sent that EXACT photo to Schiit. Their response (this time quoted from the e-mail they sent me after 2+ weeks of no response, although Christmas was in the middle):
> "I'm sorry but the volume knobs fall under our range of what is normal and acceptable for the Loki.  It is not eligible for an exchange."
> 
> My translation: Loki is inexpensive, so when you buy cheap - do not expect high quality.
> ...



And I'm guessing by the time you sent that pic, it must have been past the 15-day return-for-any reason (after 15% restocking fee, though) period? :-/


----------



## Zachik

trellus said:


> And I'm guessing by the time you sent that pic, it must have been past the 15-day return-for-any reason (after 15% restocking fee, though) period? :-/


Actually, no. But by the time they answered - it was past the 21-day mark...

Anyhow - good news!
Since pushing the knobs in did not work - I tried a suggestion by @technobear :
First, I pulled all 4 knobs out a little bit, then pushed all 4 together against my desktop surface. Bingo! Now all 4 are at the same length. I should have come up with that solution myself! 
Still wish the knobs were of better quality... hopefully Schiit is listening, and will come up with much better knobs for next (Jot / Bimby sized) Loki.


----------



## Alcophone

Zachik said:


> Actually, no. But by the time they answered - it was past the 21-day mark...
> 
> Anyhow - good news!
> Since pushing the knobs in did not work - I tried a suggestion by @technobear :
> ...


Nice! Maybe you can insert some spacers into the knobs that go in further, to more permanently align them.


----------



## Zachik

Alcophone said:


> Nice! Maybe you can insert some spacers into the knobs that go in further, to more permanently align them.


I seriously doubt it would move. Needed to apply a little bit of force to pull them out / push back in. 
I think I am good now


----------



## renault4

CarlosUnchained said:


> *HIGH QUALITY TONE CONTROL*​


I love the idea of adding a unit like this, and at the price, it doesn't seem like too much of a stretch. However I have a Schiit Bifrost/Valhalla setup, so this wont go in a neat stack, it will have to sit to the side. I put some effort into keeping power and audio cables tidied and hidden to avoid the bird's next look. Now I dont know whether to wait for a model that fits with the bifrost/asgard/valhalla range. At the same time, with all that extra head space that could be used for additional controls or circuits, a Loki-equivalent in this form factor is more likely to come in around the $300 mark--sigh!

Has anyone mated the Loki to units using the larger form factor? Pictures (front and back)?

thanks

Has anyone here


----------



## luisev

There are a couple of images, front view, a few pages back.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/loki-mini-impressions.861354/page-16#post-13876249

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/loki-mini-impressions.861354/page-16#post-13888875


----------



## renault4

luisev said:


> There are a couple of images, front view, a few pages back.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/loki-mini-impressions.861354/page-16#post-13876249
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/loki-mini-impressions.861354/page-16#post-13888875




Thanks, 

Mea culpa, I clearly didn't search hard enough the first time around! 

Hmm, those photos really do present a much better perspective of the relative sizes, which makes me wonder whether the Loki would sit on top of the Valhalla after all as long as it can do so without encroaching on the tubes--I'll check the measurements tonight.

Thanks again.


----------



## renault4

hikaru12 said:


> So here's my thoughts on the Vally 2 (just got it in today) - it really smooths out these cans quite nicely and adds a nice full body to it. It's able to drive them exceedingly well. I only have my Vally at 12/1 and for quiet listening at 10 which is more than enough. I also adding some EqualizerEPO settings but if you wanted to mimic them with your Loki here's what I would do
> 
> From left to right:
> 1st knob +8 at the 6 o clock position
> ...




So hikaru12; will the Loki fit on top of your Valhalla 2 without crashing into the tubes?


----------



## hikaru12

renault4 said:


> So hikaru12; will the Loki fit on top of your Valhalla 2 without crashing into the tubes?



I recommend just turning it sideways, may look a little funky but should work regardless.


----------



## roshambo

Using Loki with HD800 and it's fantastic. Compared it to EQlibrium running JRiver and couldn't discern any SQ difference worth mentioning using the boosts I wanted. Even if there was some subtle difference, the convenience factor made any additional comparison pointless. I closed JRiver and haven't opened it since, its only function was to provide a platform for the EQlibrium VST plugin. Loki does all my EQ now and I run Tidal/Spotify/Foobar.

For classical, I still prefer a flat response. Loki's pass-thru switch makes this a breeze.

For electronic music, I add a significant amount of bass, anywhere from 3 o'clock to nearly 100% on the 20hz knob, and usually 1 o'clock on the 400 hz. It sounds great in all cases provided I'm not running high gain on the Vali 2 and playing at unsafe volume levels, in which case the limits of the HD800's bass response are found.

For heavy metal, even with the Loki, the HD800 treble still doesn't land exactly where I want it. There's still painful spiking going on, even with aggressive EQ. Given, I'm using a stock HD800 except Dekoni pads.

Overall, I consider Loki totally essential for my setup.


----------



## Bern2

roshambo said:


> Using Loki with HD800 and it's fantastic. Compared it to EQlibrium running JRiver and couldn't discern any SQ difference worth mentioning using the boosts I wanted. Even if there was some subtle difference, the convenience factor made any additional comparison pointless. I closed JRiver and haven't opened it since, its only function was to provide a platform for the EQlibrium VST plugin. Loki does all my EQ now and I run Tidal/Spotify/Foobar.
> 
> For classical, I still prefer a flat response. Loki's pass-thru switch makes this a breeze.
> 
> ...



Agree that the Loki mini is a worthwhile addition...the targeted frequencies work well.

Have you ever demoed Sonarworks?  (I'm using ref 3...think they're at 4 now).  A free trial....works wonder (IMO) with the HD 800.

Bern


----------



## roshambo (Feb 14, 2018)

I downloaded it but I never installed it. What was the latency like? While the linear phase eq was fantastic, all the VST plugins added a ton of latency. You could minimize it by reducing the buffer, but then you'd get a pop or click every once in awhile, and of course movie lip sync was a disaster, so it was basically unacceptable. None of that with the Loki though!

Update: I installed Sonarworks and it appears to have selectable latencies from zero latency to linear phase (long latency). Works magic, like you said. Incredible


----------



## Jakethesnale

Is the Loki mini plug and play? I know practicly nothing about how eq works... I currently have the schiit modi and magni and was wondering what cables I needed to connect them all to each other. Also, does the loki tune all sound coming from my pc? If so, does that mean I can add more bass while playing games or watching movies?


----------



## JamminVMI

Jakethesnale said:


> Is the Loki mini plug and play? I know practicly nothing about how eq works... I currently have the schiit modi and magni and was wondering what cables I needed to connect them all to each other. Also, does the loki tune all sound coming from my pc? If so, does that mean I can add more bass while playing games or watching movies?


Completely plug n play (not even plug n pray)


----------



## Left Channel

Jakethesnale said:


> Is the Loki mini plug and play? I know practicly nothing about how eq works... I currently have the schiit modi and magni and was wondering what cables I needed to connect them all to each other. Also, does the loki tune all sound coming from my pc? If so, does that mean I can add more bass while playing games or watching movies?



What @JamminVMI said. All you need is another set of RCA cables like the ones you've currently got between your Modi and Magni, as it will now sit in the middle. And then, yes, everything you run through them can be tone-adjusted using the knobs, or bypassed with the flick of the front toggle switch.


----------



## Jakethesnale

Awesome thanks for the quick responses!


----------



## VRacer-111

Jakethesnale said:


> Is the Loki mini plug and play? I know practicly nothing about how eq works... I currently have the schiit modi and magni and was wondering what cables I needed to connect them all to each other. Also, does the loki tune all sound coming from my pc? If so, does that mean I can add more bass while playing games or watching movies?



You just need an additional set of L/R RCA cables, the Loki will be placed between the modi and magni. Yes, all output from the modi will be adjusted with the Loki and then passed to the magni. There is also bypass toggle so you can pass original signal from modi through with no EQ while still keeping the knobs set how you want them for EQ , then flip it back for EQ.


----------



## omniweltall

Loki is great! Totally fixed my TH900.


----------



## roshambo

Anyone with planars using Loki? I was curious how well they worked together.


----------



## Tuneslover

VRacer-111 said:


> You just need an additional set of L/R RCA cables, the Loki will be placed between the modi and magni. Yes, all output from the modi will be adjusted with the Loki and then passed to the magni. There is also bypass toggle so you can pass original signal from modi through with no EQ while still keeping the knobs set how you want them for EQ , then flip it back for EQ.



Just remember to volume adjust your amp if you are increasing (going to the right) the Loki knobs.  Otherwise the Loki will be louder when the EQ is engaged as compared to the by-pass setting.


----------



## Kn1nJa

roshambo said:


> Anyone with planars using Loki? I was curious how well they worked together.



I have a pair of Audeze EL-8s and they work extremely well with Loki. Loki is by far one of the best things I ever added to my system.


----------



## rgmffn

roshambo said:


> Anyone with planars using Loki? I was curious how well they worked together.


 Excellent!  Using it with the Monoprice M1060. They take EQ very well. With the Loki I was able to tweak the frequency response to my liking. Now I can't do without it!


----------



## Tuneslover

Kn1nJa said:


> I have a pair of Audeze EL-8s and they work extremely well with Loki. Loki is by far one of the best things I ever added to my system.



The Loki works beautifully with my HE500's too.  I love the Loki with all of my headphones but it is best with my floor standing speakers.


----------



## omniweltall

People who say HD800 has no bass should try adding 20hz to HD800


----------



## jpfrog (Feb 18, 2018)

I have a bit of a noob question here, but I'm an audio noob so it makes sense that this would come from me.

With the Loki being used for tone control, is there any real reason to have the Modi 2 (Uber or Multi...still undecided on which I'd get) or would the DAC in my MacBook Pro be all that I need using an RCA from my HP out on the MacBook?  Obviously, the Modi 2 would give me more digital out options from the MBP and the DAC is probably a step up from the MBP, but I'm thinking my biggest gains might be noticed in using the Loki with the Magni 3.  If so, that would mean I could get those now and spend some time thinking about the DAC- Uber or Multi, or wait and see if Schiit releases a Modi 3 anytime soon.

Please educate me.

For what it's worth- at work I run a TEAC UD-301 with Grado RS2e from my MBP via optical out.  At home I have Momentum On-ear (original, not v2) and PSB M4U 1 phones.  I'm thinking of bringing the RS2e home and taking the PSBs to work, but who knows...maybe I'll just take it all to work on a rotating basis.  At home, I currently have no DAC/Amp for headphones, so running straight from the MBP or my iPhone X.  I did have a portable TEAC amp/dac, but got rid of it and am considering getting another one, or the Q5 from FiiO or a Sony.  That would only be used for travel though- I'm looking for a nice, small desktop setup for home use, as my big listening comes from my speaker setup and not phones much of the time (Marantz AV7703, Marantz MM7005, Polk LSiM 707 towers, 703 rears, 706c Center, sourced from either streaming lossless files via Apple 4k TV or via CD/SACD in the Oppo blu-ray).

I realize the FWIW section may be a lot of unnecessary info, but it provides a bit of background on where I'm at in my audio journey, so hopefully it helps somewhat.


----------



## omniweltall

jpfrog said:


> With the Loki being used for tone control, is there any real reason to have the Modi 2 (Uber or Multi...still undecided on which I'd get) or would the DAC in my MacBook Pro be all that I need using an RCA from my HP out on the MacBook?


Loki is a separate thing from a DAC. As you said, it is an equalizer. Nothing to do with DAC. 



jpfrog said:


> is there any real reason to have the Modi 2


I would advise getting a separate DAC, like the Modi 2 or Mimby, rather than using an built-in DAC. DAC is an important part of your chain. But don't go crazy with $1000+ DACs out there. You can start with Modi 2 if you wish. 



jpfrog said:


> I'm thinking my biggest gains might be noticed in using the Loki with the Magni 3


If I were to rank the order to get: Magni 3 > Modi 2 > Loki. If I were to choose, I would upgrade the amp part first. But I'm not familiar with your cans. If your cans do not need much amplification, then the order might change: Modi 2 > Magni 3 > Loki. No matter, I always see the Loki being the last piece to get. 



jpfrog said:


> if Schiit releases a Modi 3 anytime soon


Modi 2 is a very safe option with its very low price. Your downside risk is very minimal. 

My advice is that the most important part of your audio chain is the music. Don't focus too much on the gears. Don't go down the rabbit hole like a lot of us do.


----------



## Pharmaboy

I heard this tiny little EQ box at CanJam Saturday and was impressed as all get-out. What's weird is I wasn't even going to stop by the Schiit booth...I'm all set for amps & DACs and wasn't inclined to stop by. Then my friend sat down & started listening, so I did to. 

Not sure what I think of the tiny little R2R DAC & HP amp in that triple stack. But w/the Loki's switch, it's very easy to switch it in and out of the circuit, so in a sense, it didn't matter what the DAC & amp sound like--all that matters is whether the Loki subtracts anything while in circuit.

Not even close. Other than the very small volume bump when it's switched into the circuit, I heard absolutely nothing. I was hearing this through an AFO, which has above average resolution & sound quality. If the Loki was messing w/the basic sound, I could not hear it at all.

What I did hear was very subtle, yet very effective sound modifications depending on which of the 4 pots I turned up or down. As noted elsewhere in this threat, even w/the low-bass pot pinned all the way up or down, the effects remained relatively subtle, not even close to hijacking the basic sound profile of headphone/amp/DAC. It's easily the gentlest, least intrusive EQ I've ever heard--software or hardware.

I have to get one of these. Not so much for use w/headphones & amps (I love the basic sound of my HPs & amps, can mix & match to vary sound). But it might be very useful in my desktop system.

It's an impressive little product. And yes, if a "maxi" version ever came out, odds are that would a true "killer app" for EQ. Hell, the mini version already pretty much is that...


----------



## mgh24

Kn1nJa said:


> I have a pair of Audeze EL-8s and they work extremely well with Loki. Loki is by far one of the best things I ever added to my system.



Same here, and agree about the value of adding it to a system.

One thing I would like to see Schiit do is add some sort of scale, either o'clock, or just numbers 1-10 or whatever.  It would make it easier to change settings for different headphones.


----------



## Wallboy

How would this connect in the chain if you have a DAC/AMP as a single unit and source coming from USB from a PC? PC -> USB -> DAC/AMP -> DAC/AMP Preout? -> Loki -> DAC/AMP RCA In?


----------



## omniweltall

Nooo. Pse dont do that!

Loki is not meant for a single dac/amp unit. U gotta choose...either only use the dac or only the amp.


----------



## Wallboy

Alright, so it's not possible to use a Loki with a DAC/AMP combined unit? Looking to upgrade in the future and the Loki interests me, but that seems to rule out any of the DAC/AMP single units :/


----------



## omniweltall

Wallboy said:


> Alright, so it's not possible to use a Loki with a DAC/AMP combined unit? Looking to upgrade in the future and the Loki interests me, but that seems to rule out any of the DAC/AMP single units :/


I kinda prefer separate Dac/Amp anyway. Dac gets upgraded faster in general.


----------



## renault4

Pharmaboy said:


> It's an impressive little product. And yes, if a "maxi" version ever came out, odds are that would a true "killer app" for EQ. Hell, the mini version already pretty much is that...



I would really like to see something in the bifrost/asgard form factor and I'm willing to wait, well, for a bit anyway. I'm guessing how well this sells will be one determining factor on whether Schiit expands the range of tone control units; any sense how much attention the Loki garnered at CanJam?


----------



## Left Channel

Wallboy said:


> Alright, so it's not possible to use a Loki with a DAC/AMP combined unit? Looking to upgrade in the future and the Loki interests me, but that seems to rule out any of the DAC/AMP single units :/



It's not possible to use it for your headphones, which is probably your intent (because head-fi), but it could still sit between the amp's pre-outs and your speakers.

Or at least it's not possible unless there's a DAC/amp combo I've never seen that works the way you've envisioned, as if the two halves are separate units, with RCA out and in jacks.


----------



## Pharmaboy

renault4 said:


> I would really like to see something in the bifrost/asgard form factor and I'm willing to wait, well, for a bit anyway. I'm guessing how well this sells will be one determining factor on whether Schiit expands the range of tone control units; any sense how much attention the Loki garnered at CanJam?



I was at CanJam on Saturday...spent 20+ minutes at the Schiit booth. I wasn't exactly counting people, but what I saw was:

What appeared to be multiple 3X stacks (R2R DAC on bottom; Loki in the middle; HP amp on top). Maybe 3 to 4 such listening stations. 
The whole time I sat there, people were paying attention to the Loki, asking questions of the company personnel, listening to them, etc.
My experience (sitting down to hear the AFO, but getting interested in the Loki) seems to be happening w/other people--either sitting at these stations; or walking up to wait for a station; etc.
The fact that you could so easily switch the unit out of the system, then back in, seemed of particular interest (to me & others I saw there).
So my very unscientific conclusion is that people know about the Loki & went there to see/hear it; and others who didn't go there to see/hear, ended up doing so anyway.

And re this from @Left Channel: "It's not possible to use it for your headphones, which is probably your intent (because head-fi), but it could still sit between the amp's pre-outs and your speakers."

Actually, the Loki could readily be used with headphones. First would be the DAC; RCA outputs of DAC into RCA inputs of Loki; RCA outputs of Loki into RCA inputs of headphone amp.

Of course, that wouldn't be possible if one had a combo DAC/amp; nor would it work if one took digital signal directly from the computer's soundcard.

My desktop system is insanely complex, starting w/a DAC that has 2 live RCA output pairs, each going to a separate HP amp/preamp. I would use a Loki downstream of whichever HP amp/preamp controls the speakers (too complicated to explain here, plus I'd put you all to sleep trying to do so...)


----------



## Left Channel

Pharmaboy said:


> And re this from @Left Channel: "It's not possible to use it for your headphones, which is probably your intent (because head-fi), but it could still sit between the amp's pre-outs and your speakers."
> 
> Actually, the Loki could readily be used with headphones. First would be the DAC; RCA outputs of DAC into RCA inputs of Loki; RCA outputs of Loki into RCA inputs of headphone amp.
> 
> Of course, that wouldn't be possible if one had a combo DAC/amp; nor would it work if one took digital signal directly from the computer's soundcard.



If you'll read through his posts again, you'll find he was asking if he can use a combo DAC/amp.


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## Pharmaboy

good catch...I'm rushed & hadn't read original post.


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## Wallboy (Feb 20, 2018)

Thanks for the replies. I currently have just a Modi 1 and Vali 1 which the Loki would easily sit between, but I plan on upgrading those soon. It just rules out any of the DAC/AMP combos I suppose. For example, if someone had the Jotunheim with the DAC built-in, and they wanted the Loki, they are screwed from what I've gathered.


----------



## omniweltall

Most dac/amp combos that i know have either a better dac or amp. Jot's dac is not so good, for example. So, not really screwed in a big way.


----------



## Wallboy (Feb 21, 2018)

Well there is no difference in perceived sound between a $150 and $2000 DAC. Any difference you would be hearing is from one of the DACs "coloring" the sound in some way. Pay more for extra features such as additional inputs, etc. Not for "better" sound.

You sit 100 headfi'ers down and do a Modi vs Yggy blind test and you'd have a complete mixed result... Even better, tell them which one they are listening to and you'd end up with 90% saying they thought the Yggy was better. And then break out the news that you lied and they were actually hearing the opposite unit that you told them they were listening to. Congrats Modi, you convinced 90% that you are the better unit. Mmm placebo at work...

GOD I would love that test to happen, so we could put this expensive DAC nonsense to bed.

But to get back on topic. Thanks for the clarification that a DAC/AMP combo won't work with this unit. I'll be looking into an individual DAC (I DO need multiple inputs. One from my PC via USB and a digital coax or toslink coming from my consoles) and a separate amp.


----------



## omniweltall

Wallboy said:


> Well there is no difference in perceived sound between a $150 and $2000 DAC. Any difference you would be hearing is from one of the DACs "coloring" the sound in some way. Pay more for extra features such as additional inputs, etc. Not for "better" sound.
> 
> You sit 100 headfi'ers down and do a Modi vs Yggy blind test and you'd have a complete mixed result... Even better, tell them which one they are listening to and you'd end up with 90% saying they thought the Yggy was better. And then break out the news that you lied and they were actually hearing the opposite unit that you told them they were listening to. Congrats Modi, you convinced 90% that you are the better unit. Mmm placebo at work...
> 
> ...


I respectfully disagree. Though there is some truth in your opinion, mate.

The reason why those 90% people fail, is because those people, like most people, don't have trained ears. Ears are probably our least trained part of our body. Most people simply can't hear the difference. They never do listening test their whole life. Yet they want to keep "upgrading" their gears. In the end, they buy into hypes easily, since they can't rely on their ears when buying gears. For most people, I think Mimby would be much more than sufficient and they only cost USD250. So, there is really no need to follow those hypes and spend ridiculous money on DACs. Many of those expensive DACs also perform way below their tag price. And that is exactly why I advised to take it easy with DAC (or amps even).

One's gears should reflect one's audio level. One can upgrade when their level upgrades too. I'm still using mid-tier gears myself. It is no use for me to buy a Yggy if my ears can't tell the difference. BUT...........those differences are there for the trained ears (mine not included). For the life of me, I can't tell the difference between Gumby and Yggy...maybe next year. But for those who can, they will be able to appreciate the Yggy.

To me, multiple inputs and such are just auxiliary stuffs when it comes to buying DACs. I don't even care about balanced or SE. Good sound is good sound.

Cheers and enjoy your music, mate.


----------



## ScubaMan2017 (Feb 21, 2018)

Wallboy said:


> Well there is no difference in perceived sound between a $150 and $2000 DAC. Any difference you would be hearing is from one of the DACs "coloring" the sound in some way. Pay more for extra features such as additional inputs, etc. Not for "better" sound...[snip]...



Interesting point, Wallboy. I’m trying to educate myself: would you consider “DAC colouring” similar to the “bass boost” and other mysterious effect buttons I see on mainstream tuners and sound cards? Whenever I monkey around with my PC audio settings, I see such “headphone optimization” woo-woo settings.



> You sit 100 headfi'ers down and do a Modi vs Yggy blind test and you'd have a complete mixed result... Even better, tell them which one they are listening to and you'd end up with 90% saying they thought the Yggy was better. And then break out the news that you lied and they were actually hearing the opposite unit that you told them they were listening to. Congrats Modi, you convinced 90% that you are the better unit. Mmm placebo at work...[snip]... GOD I would love that test to happen, so we could put this expensive DAC nonsense to bed...[snip]...



I have to admit, it’d take a head-fi user a lot of gonads to put my Modi Multibit in a A/B test against one of the beefier Schiit DAC units (and then post her/his results).  I don’t think I could tell the difference.

...still seriously considering picking up a Loki. It’s that or try to grab a $350-650 (CDN) Sennheiser HD6– headphone.

Interesting side-topic. Thanks, eh.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

omniweltall said:


> ...[snip]...The reason why those 90% people fail, is because those people, like most people, don't have trained ears. Ears are probably our least trained part of our body. Most people simply can't hear the difference. They never do listening test their whole life. Yet they want to keep "upgrading" their gears. In the end, they buy into hypes easily, since they can't rely on their ears when buying gears. For most people, I think Mimby would be much more than sufficient and they only cost USD250. So, there is really no need to follow those hypes and spend ridiculous money on DACs. Many of those expensive DACs also perform way below their tag price. And that is exactly why I advised to take it easy with DAC (or amps even)....[snip]...



A trained ear. I’ve run across that phenomena since I’ve dipped my claw into the audiophile pool. My audio technician buddy undoubtably has it. Me? I damaged my right eardrum in a diving mishap on the Saint Laurence (goddamn tinitus).  Hmm... I wonder if there’s a way to use software-based EQ or even the Loki to counteract the effect? Just musing & BS-ing...


----------



## bzzzt

Wallboy said:


> Well there is no difference in perceived sound between a $150 and $2000 DAC. Any difference you would be hearing is from one of the DACs "coloring" the sound in some way. Pay more for extra features such as additional inputs, etc. Not for "better" sound.
> 
> You sit 100 headfi'ers down and do a Modi vs Yggy blind test and you'd have a complete mixed result... Even better, tell them which one they are listening to and you'd end up with 90% saying they thought the Yggy was better. And then break out the news that you lied and they were actually hearing the opposite unit that you told them they were listening to. Congrats Modi, you convinced 90% that you are the better unit. Mmm placebo at work...
> 
> GOD I would love that test to happen, so we could put this expensive DAC nonsense to bed.



While I don't doubt that many DACs are indistinguishable to many people, this is certainly not true for all people or all DACs.

For example, I very easily hear a big difference between my Modi 2 Uber and my Gungnir MB. Since I was suspicious if it might be bias, my friend helped me do a blind A/B test to confirm. Out of 15 samples I was able to name each DAC correctly 14 times. 

I'm not going to argue that this was an infallible test or that this statistic would hold for all listeners. What I will say is that for me, the Gumby was clearly an improvement. Most of the time the audible cues that led me to pick the Gumby or Modi were a slight harshness I hear with the Modi. It is immediately obvious to me, its not a subtle thing.

While in terms of recommendation I often tell people not to worry much about DAC upgrades, I don't think it is fair to say that no DACs sound any different.


----------



## omniweltall

ScubaMan2017 said:


> A trained ear. I’ve run across that phenomena since I’ve dipped my claw into the audiophile pool. My audio technician buddy undoubtably has it. Me? I damaged my right eardrum in a diving mishap on the Saint Laurence (goddamn tinitus).  Hmm... I wonder if there’s a way to use software-based EQ or even the Loki to counteract the effect? Just musing & BS-ing...


Really sorry about your ear. As far as I know, I don't think EQ can help. But I'm not an expert.


----------



## timb5881

ScubaMan2017 said:


> A trained ear. I’ve run across that phenomena since I’ve dipped my claw into the audiophile pool. My audio technician buddy undoubtably has it. Me? I damaged my right eardrum in a diving mishap on the Saint Laurence (goddamn tinitus).  Hmm... I wonder if there’s a way to use software-based EQ or even the Loki to counteract the effect? Just musing & BS-ing...


Check this out!  If your tinnitus is not a physical damage damage this research may help.

http://www.uofmhealth.org/news/arch...s-discovery-opens-door-possible-new-treatment


----------



## ScubaMan2017 (Feb 25, 2018)

timb5881 said:


> Check this out!  If your tinnitus is not a physical damage damage this research may help.
> 
> http://www.uofmhealth.org/news/arch...s-discovery-opens-door-possible-new-treatment


_Thanks for the links, eh. I got off comparatively light with my injury. Diving a seaway where I’m whipped around like a 300lb (with gear) ragdoll is awesome. 
#######
I’m waffling between picking up a Loki or saving my CDN pesos for an (almost mythical) HD600/650/6xx. It’s a fun problem to agonize over!_


----------



## Soundguyrob

ScubaMan2017 said:


> _Thanks for the links, eh. I got off comparatively light with my injury. Diving a seaway where I’m whipped around like a 300lb (with gear) ragdoll is awesome.
> #######
> I’m waffling between picking up a Loki or saving my CDN pesos for an (almost mythical) HD600/650/6xx. It’s a fun problem to agonize over!_



I'm using a Loki mini with my HD650 (into a Valhalla 2) and it sounds amazing. So, I say get both! LOL
The great thing about the Loki is it has the ability to change headphones from "like" to "love". Well worth the admission price. (and I'm a Canuck, too. So I sympathize with the exchange/shipping/brokerage pain).


----------



## renault4

Pharmaboy said:


> I was at CanJam on Saturday...spent 20+ minutes at the Schiit booth. I wasn't exactly counting people, but what I saw was:
> 
> What appeared to be multiple 3X stacks (R2R DAC on bottom; Loki in the middle; HP amp on top). Maybe 3 to 4 such listening stations.
> The whole time I sat there, people were paying attention to the Loki, asking questions of the company personnel, listening to them, etc.
> ...





So coming back to the topic of the Loki 

In watching the company over the last few years, it is not unreasonable to predict that were Schiit to choose to add another tone control unit in a larger form factor, they would take advantage of the increased real estate to add more features or upgrade the quality of the electronics, or both, so that they could target a different price point, say around the $300 mark. However what I think i'd really like would be the exact same electronics just in the larger form factor, realizing they's have to redesign the board to accommodate the increased spacing from the use of larger dials. 

Call me fussy, but I've been able to establish my kit on a small side table next to an armchair in my living room, I've bundled all the power or audio cables in a wire loom, so the whole thing looks tidy and aesthetically unobtrusive; stacking a mini Loki on top of this or on the side would look far more obtrusive in my mind than a third unit, which would look more like it belongs in the stack.

Oh well, we'll have to wait and see!


----------



## Sound Eq (Feb 26, 2018)

Hello everyone , I noticed unbelievable hiss when I connect the loki to and amp and turn the amp to more than 3/4 of its volume, I tried many different cables, and turned off wifi and bluetooth nearby

i tired loki on 2 amps the same thing, before I did not notice this as I never turned the amp more than half volume, but I wanted to test out how clean the sound connection is and boy the hiss and static is unbelievable

i was wondering what are your findings


----------



## Tuneslover

renault4 said:


> So coming back to the topic of the Loki
> 
> In watching the company over the last few years, it is not unreasonable to predict that were Schiit to choose to add another tone control unit in a larger form factor, they would take advantage of the increased real estate to add more features or upgrade the quality of the electronics, or both, so that they could target a different price point, say around the $300 mark. However what I think i'd really like would be the exact same electronics just in the larger form factor, realizing they's have to redesign the board to accommodate the increased spacing from the use of larger dials.
> 
> ...



Would you mind posting a picture of your WIRE LOOM.  I need help with tidying up my wires.  Thanks!!


----------



## quimbo (Feb 26, 2018)

Here is my work setup, purchased 2 racks here - *https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HIF...e-rack-transparent-equipment/32788148827.html*

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/magni-3-impressions.860812/page-81#post-13956309

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/magni-3-impressions.860812/page-96#post-14052343


----------



## renault4

quimbo said:


> Here is my work setup, purchased 2 racks here - *https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HIF...e-rack-transparent-equipment/32788148827.html*
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/magni-3-impressions.860812/page-81#post-13956309
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/magni-3-impressions.860812/page-96#post-14052343



very spiffy rack, perfectly suited for the magni/modi range!

be nice if there was a bigger one for the Bifrost/Asgard range--dont seem to see one


----------



## VRacer-111

Sound Eq said:


> Hello everyone , I noticed unbelievable hiss when I connect the loki to and amp and turn the amp to more than 3/4 of its volume, I tried many different cables, and turned off wifi and bluetooth nearby
> 
> i tired loki on 2 amps the same thing, before I did not notice this as I never turned the amp more than half volume, but I wanted to test out how clean the sound connection is and boy the hiss and static is unbelievable
> 
> i was wondering what are your findings



I have not found any noise issues with the Loki in my setup, have muted/paused the music and turned up volume to full and back down with no noise heard at all. This is from a Gustard X20U DAC to Loki to STAX SRM-323S driver unit and simultaneously output to Gustard H10 amp.


----------



## Sound Eq

VRacer-111 said:


> I have not found any noise issues with the Loki in my setup, have muted/paused the music and turned up volume to full and back down with no noise heard at all. This is from a Gustard X20U DAC to Loki to STAX SRM-323S driver unit and simultaneously output to Gustard H10 amp.



that is strange, I did 

computer--mojo-loki- and a cavali amp --- lcdx

also did

computer--- mojo--- alo audio rx mk3---- lcd x

Just connecting the loki to the amps even with out the mojo or computer connected there is hum and noise at 3/4 of the volume on both amps


----------



## JamminVMI (Feb 26, 2018)

Sound Eq said:


> Hello everyone , I noticed unbelievable hiss when I connect the loki to and amp and turn the amp to more than 3/4 of its volume, I tried many different cables, and turned off wifi and bluetooth nearby
> 
> i tired loki on 2 amps the same thing, before I did not notice this as I never turned the amp more than half volume, but I wanted to test out how clean the sound connection is and boy the hiss and static is unbelievable
> 
> i was wondering what are your findings


That would be FAR OUTSIDE anything I've experienced, and I've had Loki for a while now.  Don't think my M3's ever been north of 75% until just now, but tested it and I get no static/hiss... If I were you, I'd be e-mailing the nice folks at Schiit to see what's up, or maybe what's NOT up...

OK, just reduced the output on my squeezebox so I didn't blow anything up, including my ears.  Tested Loki with both my Magni 3 and Vali 2, both from volume 0 to 100%, no hiss, no static...  I'd e-mail.

EDIT: I'm squeezebox SPDIF Coax out to Bifrost 4490/Loki//Sys/M3 or Vali2


----------



## Left Channel

Sound Eq said:


> that is strange, I did
> 
> computer--mojo-loki- and a cavali amp --- lcdx
> 
> ...



You may have a ground loop. Try plugging the Loki into a different powerstrip and if possible an entirely different circuit. Maybe for just for this test, use an extension cord to do that.

If that doesn't fix it, there may be something wrong with the Loki. If it does fix it, you don't necessarily have to avoid the same powerstrip because you could also insert a grounding line filter like the Hum X.


----------



## Sound Eq

Left Channel said:


> You may have a ground loop. Try plugging the Loki into a different powerstrip and if possible an entirely different circuit. Maybe for just for this test, use an extension cord to do that.
> 
> If that doesn't fix it, there may be something wrong with the Loki. If it does fix it, you don't necessarily have to avoid the same powerstrip because you could also insert a grounding line filter like the Hum X.




thanks apparently it was the power outlet, tried on another one and all is good again

thanks all for the help


----------



## Pharmaboy

You gotta love Head-Fi. I've seen people reach out & get help just like this, over & over.

(an excellent community)


----------



## FLTWS

renault4 said:


> So coming back to the topic of the Loki
> 
> In watching the company over the last few years, it is not unreasonable to predict that were Schiit to choose to add another tone control unit in a larger form factor, they would take advantage of the increased real estate to add more features or upgrade the quality of the electronics, or both, so that they could target a different price point, say around the $300 mark. However what I think i'd really like would be the exact same electronics just in the larger form factor, realizing they's have to redesign the board to accommodate the increased spacing from the use of larger dials.
> 
> ...



Given Schiit's design emphasis on balanced devises at the very least any larger, more sophisticated offering, even if still only a 4 band devise, should offer  balanced in/out along with SE. That's one of the reasons I use my Loki only with my Jot.


----------



## renault4

Tuneslover said:


> Would you mind posting a picture of your WIRE LOOM. I need help with tidying up my wires. Thanks!!



here's a few viewpoints, the wiring loom is nothing special and I am sure there are better variants.


----------



## VRacer-111 (Feb 27, 2018)

Got in a used very good condition pair of STAX SR-L300 this evening and listening to them on my new electrostat setup with the Loki... the BASS is INSANE with that 20Hz knob at about 2:30 and the 400Hz dial back to about 11:30...  extremely detailed, insanely quick and extending with MASSIVE PUNCH! Do I even need my modded TH-X00PH any more?!?! YES, of course...but dang that bass from the L300 is not fooling around! Bypass the Loki and its not the same... but still extremely good bass.

My new L300 and my ESP950...





The Electrostat setup (work in progress) - Laptop via USB into Gustard X20U DAC -> Schiit Loki -> NAD C275BEE stereo amp -> Mjolnir Audio reworked and modded STAX SRD-7 transformer/energizer -> electrostats:


----------



## Tuneslover

renault4 said:


> here's a few viewpoints, the wiring loom is nothing special and I am sure there are better variants.



Thanks!!  I'll have to get some of those tubes and hopefully get a nice clean cable situation.  Nice system by the way.


----------



## Mizicke5273

I'm thinking about buying a Loki.  Is there any other hardware EQ/Tone Control device in this price range or more that I should consider?


----------



## Pharmaboy

Mizicke5273 said:


> I'm thinking about buying a Loki.  Is there any other hardware EQ/Tone Control device in this price range or more that I should consider?



I've been interested in a Loki myself. Without doing a survey of EQ boxes out there, I can tell you this:

We'll exclude for the moment, all those automotive sound system EQ boxes (12V) that are the closest thing out there to the tiny form factor of the Loki
All hardware EQ that I'm aware tend to be full-size, either 1/2 or 1 full rackmount space (ie, 9"-17" wide, with depth another foot or so). In other words, gigantic & space-hogging compared to the Loki
Of those boxes, the great majority are used in sound studios (ie, pro equipment)--these tend to be very complex, have up to 30 bands/multiple channels of EQ, and either dirt cheap (ie, suspect sonics) or extremely expensive (ie, not suspect sonics, but cost $1000s)
I'm not aware of anything else w/4 bands of EQ this small
Just as important, I auditioned the Loki at some length. Thanks to its in-circuit vs out-of-circuit switch, you can very easily switch it in and out of the circuit to hear what, if anything, it's doing to the sound. With all 4 rotary pots centered (= 0 EQ), I couldn't hear a thing, apart from a tiny bump in volume when it's in the circuit. So it's extremely transparent.
And when I set one or more bands higher or lower (by turning each band's pot clockwise or counterclockwise), the changes I heard were rather subtle, not dramatic or cartoonish.
*Net/net:* If there's something else like the Loki in size & design, let alone transparency, let alone inexpensive cost--I've never heard of it.

This is why a number of Head-Fi'ers are waiting eagerly to see if Schitt ever offers a bigger/badder UBERLoki (ie, physically larger, more bands of EQ).


----------



## renault4

Mizicke5273 said:


> I'm thinking about buying a Loki.  Is there any other hardware EQ/Tone Control device in this price range or more that I should consider?



I am a novice at this, but based on reading this and other fora as well as my own limited experience with their products, I think the most likely answer you are going to get is "no."

That is to say, the liklihood of finding as good a quality product at this price point and from a company that is as dedicated to and as passionate about their entire product line, is pretty darn low! 

(I do not own a Loki, but do use other products from Schiit Audio)


----------



## quimbo (Mar 8, 2018)

..


----------



## Mizicke5273

Thanks, easy decision now.  I wanted to check before I made the purchase.


----------



## Left Channel

Yes, easy decision! Go for it, @quimbo  Before the Loki Mini was announced, I looked desperately for something that met the criteria @Pharmaboy laid out above. Finding nothing, I eventually bought new desktop speakers instead. Then it appeared. Sigh. But I bought it anyway, use it regularly on cans and speakers in new ways, and love it all the same.


----------



## quimbo

..I am the proud owner of a Loki for home and another for work.  I listen to a lot of live music, some of it 50 plus years old and the Loki allows me to adjust whatever may be low in the mix


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Mizicke5273 said:


> Thanks, easy decision now.  I wanted to check before I made the purchase.


It’s on backorder... popular! Post your thought after you’ve messed around with it, eh.


----------



## Richsvt

I am this close to pulling the trigger on this. I may also go for the slick looking acrylic rack someone posted a few pages back. Makes a tidy little set-up with my M3 on the table.


----------



## quimbo

That is my setup.  The 2 racks are my work setup wyrd - modi 2 uber - loki mini - magni 3 .  Get so many comments every time someone stops in my office.  I also rest a 4 TB passport on the top during the day.


----------



## omniweltall

Fix HD800 with it. Tame that treble and bring out the sub bass. Also, increase 2khz a little. 

Then pit HD800 against the new cans out there.


----------



## Nitreb

renault4 said:


> I am a novice at this, but based on reading this and other fora as well as my own limited experience with their products, I think the most likely answer you are going to get is "no."
> 
> That is to say, the liklihood of finding as good a quality product at this price point and from a company that is as dedicated to and as passionate about their entire product line, is pretty darn low!
> 
> (I do not own a Loki, but do use other products from Schiit Audio)



You might consider this similar product: 
https://www.jdslabs.com/products/187/subjective3-equalizer/


----------



## timb5881

VRacer-111 said:


> Got in a used very good condition pair of STAX SR-L300 this evening and listening to them on my new electrostat setup with the Loki... the BASS is INSANE with that 20Hz knob at about 2:30 and the 400Hz dial back to about 11:30...  extremely detailed, insanely quick and extending with MASSIVE PUNCH! Do I even need my modded TH-X00PH any more?!?! YES, of course...but dang that bass from the L300 is not fooling around! Bypass the Loki and its not the same... but still extremely good bass.
> 
> My new L300 and my ESP950...
> 
> ...


How is the Loki with the ESP-950 stars?  I have had my 950 phones forever and WOULD be curious as to how well they work together


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Richsvt said:


> I am this close to pulling the trigger on this. I may also go for the slick looking acrylic rack someone posted a few pages back. Makes a tidy little set-up with my M3 on the table.


----------



## MisterMudd

ScubaMan2017 said:


>


Man I so want that rack also. But don't you have to give questionable information to AliExpress to sign up? I have to ask as I'm an old privacy freak. LOL


----------



## VRacer-111

timb5881 said:


> How is the Loki with the ESP-950 stars?  I have had my 950 phones forever and WOULD be curious as to how well they work together



I use it to tweak the low end with the 20Hz and 400Hz knobs, find the ESP950 low end a little lacking stock for my taste. Works well, adds enough to reinforce the low end and make it more natural sounding with drums and other percussion instruments and guitars and piano. No issues bumping the 20Hz EQ up...clean sounding.


----------



## JamminVMI

MisterMudd said:


> Man I so want that rack also. But don't you have to give questionable information to AliExpress to sign up? I have to ask as I'm an old privacy freak. LOL


Take a look on amazon, search “topping shelf” - I think size woud work...


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Pharmaboy said:


> I've been interested in a Loki myself. Without doing a survey of EQ boxes out there, I can tell you this:
> 
> We'll exclude for the moment, all those automotive sound system EQ boxes (12V) that are the closest thing out there to the tiny form factor of the Loki
> All hardware EQ that I'm aware tend to be full-size, either 1/2 or 1 full rackmount space (ie, 9"-17" wide, with depth another foot or so). In other words, gigantic & space-hogging compared to the Loki
> ...


This author’s post should be cross-posted on Schiit’s blog... it’s the clearest explanation yet about analog equalizers...
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...bable-start-up.701900/page-1994#post-14095203 
...saved me wasting money on an amazon dot ca creation!


----------



## MisterMudd

JamminVMI said:


> Take a look on amazon, search “topping shelf” - I think size woud work...


Many thanks. Buying one now!


----------



## Jakethesnale

What would be the advantage of using the loki over eq software? Say if your only using the loki for a desktop setup with headphones.


----------



## roshambo

Convenience. 

If you're running a linear phase EQ plugin like EQulibrium you still need a host program, so you have that annoyance. Additionally, linear phase consumes system resources and you have latency, so lip sync in games and movies can be an issue. Then there's SonarWorks, which has the ability to run in Linear Phase or minimum latency mode, which is nice. However, if you want to change your EQ a lot, it's irritating to have to go back into the app to switch it on or off, or modify the EQ curve. With Loki, the physical device is always right there. You flip a switch to engage or disengage EQ, and you can mess with the four bands whenever you want, no matter what you're doing on the computer, and the quality is always good.


----------



## technobear (Mar 16, 2018)

Jakethesnale said:


> What would be the advantage of using the loki over eq software? Say if your only using the loki for a desktop setup with headphones.


No DSP. No digital filtering. No unnatural-sounding pre-ringing.

Of course this is moot if you are using a DAC that does all that anyway. That's why I use iFi Audio DACs in 'Bit Perfect' (NOS) mode.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

roshambo said:


> Convenience.
> 
> If you're running a linear phase EQ plugin like EQulibrium you still need a host program, so you have that annoyance. Additionally, linear phase consumes system resources and you have latency, so lip sync in games and movies can be an issue. Then there's SonarWorks, which has the ability to run in Linear Phase or minimum latency mode, which is nice. However, if you want to change your EQ a lot, it's irritating to have to go back into the app to switch it on or off, or modify the EQ curve. With Loki, the physical device is always right there. You flip a switch to engage or disengage EQ, and you can mess with the four bands whenever you want, no matter what you're doing on the computer, and the quality is always good.


_The above response is what I’d tell many people. My OTHER reason... I love all the physical little knobs to tinker with. It matches my ModiMB & Magni3._


----------



## Left Channel

Jakethesnale said:


> What would be the advantage of using the loki over eq software? Say if your only using the loki for a desktop setup with headphones.



Have you seen Mike Moffat's post on this topic?  He is one of the co-founders of Schiit Audio. 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wha...n-robert-hunter.784471/page-322#post-13748153


----------



## Richsvt

Left Channel said:


> Have you seen Mike Moffat's post on this topic?  He is one of the co-founders of Schiit Audio.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wha...n-robert-hunter.784471/page-322#post-13748153



Thanks for reposting this. Love the way Moffat spins his take. I am very close to getting one. Seems like some fun for a cheap price. Just like the M3, even it does not meet your total expectation, still fun for less than a kidney that some vendors seem to ask for. Sorry, been reading some audiopihle magazines and it's hard  to buy into the sky high costs for some equipment. It's nice to see some modest fun for more than reasonable pricing.


----------



## Wickham

Loki must be selling well. I ordered a month ago and they were sold out. So waiting for mine. Connecting cables all ready to hook it up.


----------



## rgmffn

Wickham said:


> Loki must be selling well. I ordered a month ago and they were sold out. So waiting for mine. Connecting cables all ready to hook it up.



I'm glad I got mine when I did. Love it.


----------



## earChasm

I went from a “starters kit” to my almost completed endgame setup (hopefully this friday) and my Loki has always been there. I wish tho that I had bought his brother (Loki DSD) when I had the chance... That one is hard to get


----------



## ScubaMan2017

rgmffn said:


> I'm glad I got mine when I did. Love it.


_...pretty impressive back-order. Noticed how the delivery dates on the site were made in smaller font, under the ORDER button? _


----------



## GenEricOne

Just received my Loki today. As a mild basshead I'm pretty blown away. 

I've only listened with my HE-400i so far, which I exclusively use for gaming and don't enjoy for my music (mostly EDM). I've been able to dial out the harshness from the Magni + HE-400i combo and bring bass quantity beyond what my Ultrasone Pro 900 can deliver...while maintaining the vocals and clarity of the HE-400i. 

I think this changes what I'll look for in future headphones as my mild basshead preference no longer needs to override everything and I can focus on more qualitative things like impact, soundstage, resolution, and comfort. That said, still not sure I see a clear upgrade path past my TH-X00 PH.

Really excited to combine it with my M1060C and TH-X00 PH in the coming days. Not sure I have a use for my DT990 Pros now that I have a bassy, mellowed HE-400i.


----------



## VRacer-111

GenEricOne said:


> That said, still not sure I see a clear upgrade path past my TH-X00 PH.



If you want to experience a true upgrade in bass, go with STAX Lambda and Loki combo...


----------



## jnak00

Just curious - people who are getting their Lokis now, when did you order?  I ordered mine last week, so I know I'm at the back of the queue, just wondering how long that queue might be.


----------



## GenEricOne

Switched over to my TH-X00 PH last night after my post and now have a few hours of use. I freaking love the Loki. So far I'm happier with my Loki purchase than any other component I have...including the TH-X00 PH.



VRacer-111 said:


> If you want to experience a true upgrade in bass, go with STAX Lambda and Loki combo...


Someday I'll make the jump to electrostats, but the price of them + requiring their own amp is tough to justify. I really don't like the way Lambdas look but that matters less when I'm wearing them.

Is there a specific Lambda you're referencing?



jnak00 said:


> Just curious - people who are getting their Lokis now, when did you order?  I ordered mine last week, so I know I'm at the back of the queue, just wondering how long that queue might be.


My order was placed 2/21 and shipped 3/23.


----------



## Wickham

GenEricOne said:


> My order was placed 2/21 and shipped 3/23.



My order was placed 2/17 and shipped 3/23. Expecting this Friday.


----------



## VRacer-111

GenEricOne said:


> Someday I'll make the jump to electrostats, but the price of them + requiring their own amp is tough to justify. I really don't like the way Lambdas look but that matters less when I'm wearing them.
> 
> Is there a specific Lambda you're referencing?



Was specifically referring to the SR-L300
STAX L300 can be had for $300 used...


----------



## jnak00 (Mar 29, 2018)

Wow, you guys waited a long time for the Loki.  I ordered mine last week, but it hasn't shipped yet.  Hopefully I'm not waiting a month or more


----------



## Tuneslover

jnak00 said:


> Wow, you guys waited a long time for the Loki.  I ordered mine last week, but it hasn't shipped yet.  Hopefully I'm not waiting a month or more



Still beats Massdrop's wait time for the HD6XX or HD58X!


----------



## jnak00

Tuneslover said:


> Still beats Massdrop's wait time for the HD6XX or HD58X!



True, but at least with Massdrop they are clear on how long it will take.  I know the Loki's been on backorder for a long time so I wasn't expecting it to ship right away, but I still have no idea if will be shipped in a week or a month.  The site says 3-5 days now, so hopefully it will ship soon.

I'm not complaining, I don't mind waiting.  It's just nice to have a sense of how long it will take.


----------



## koover

jnak00 said:


> True, but at least with Massdrop they are clear on how long it will take.  I know the Loki's been on backorder for a long time so I wasn't expecting it to ship right away, but I still have no idea if will be shipped in a week or a month.  The site says 3-5 days now, so hopefully it will ship soon.
> 
> I'm not complaining, I don't mind waiting.  It's just nice to have a sense of how long it will take.


I couldn’t agree more. Schiit truly is a great company in my eyes but this definitely is their weakness. What they list on their site for estimated shipping a lot of times doesn’t match reality.
Don’t leave the customer guessing, just be up front and say, hey, it’s gonna be a month before you get your Schiit.
I’m still debating if I’m going to pick this up.
I’m all over the place right now on what I’m gonna do. Good luck to you man and hope you get your gear soon. I know the anticipation would kill me personally as I’m like a little kid when it comes to this kind of stuff.


----------



## Wickham

koover said:


> I couldn’t agree more. Schiit truly is a great company in my eyes but this definitely is their weakness. What they list on their site for estimated shipping a lot of times doesn’t match reality.
> Don’t leave the customer guessing, just be up front and say, hey, it’s gonna be a month before you get your Schiit.
> I’m still debating if I’m going to pick this up.
> I’m all over the place right now on what I’m gonna do. Good luck to you man and hope you get your gear soon. I know the anticipation would kill me personally as I’m like a little kid when it comes to this kind of stuff.



When I inquired, they indicated that the recent press on the Loki had led to them selling out the few that they had in stock. As a result, they had to build new ones to fill the orders. That seems to be the way they work. More like a bakery.

I'm expecting mine tomorrow via FedEx.


----------



## exdmd (Mar 29, 2018)

Their certainly is a demand for Lokis! Took a month after ordering to receive mine just got in yesterday. This is one transparent and very useful hardware equalizer. I am using with HD800S so am interested in what settings other HD800S owners are using. At the moment from left to right mine are 2:00 PM - 12:00 PM - 2:00 PM - 11:00 AM.

Also GIGO you will hear a difference with better cables. Best to match the cables you are currently using. Use the same brand from your DAC to the Loki you are using from Loki to amp.


----------



## Wickham

Slightly off topic: I'm really interested in the 800s. I seem to prefer the cooler more analytical tuning to what is described as warm and laid back. I have a couple of Sennheiser phones that I like for their crispness.  I'd be interested to hear what Loki adjustments you would like to make to your phones. Do you want to ease off on the upper midrange?


----------



## exdmd

Wickham said:


> Slightly off topic: I'm really interested in the 800s. I seem to prefer the cooler more analytical tuning to what is described as warm and laid back. I have a couple of Sennheiser phones that I like for their crispness.  I'd be interested to hear what Loki adjustments you would like to make to your phones. Do you want to ease off on the upper midrange?



Loki only adjusts at center frequencies bass (20 Hz), midbass (400 Hz), midrange (2 kHz) and treble (8 kHz). There is no upper midrange adjustment per se but of course adjusting 2 kHz also affects upper midrange to lesser degree. Loki mini needs more knobs 

HD800S FR is depressed from 2 kHz to 4 kHz so i bring it back up by adjusting midrange knob to 2 PM. I should not have to back off the treble knob but in my system a slight reduction to 11 AM works for me. At the end of the day you have to use the settings which work best for you. Sharing settings gives base guidelines to help get started.


----------



## GenEricOne

koover said:


> I couldn’t agree more. Schiit truly is a great company in my eyes but this definitely is their weakness. What they list on their site for estimated shipping a lot of times doesn’t match reality.
> Don’t leave the customer guessing, just be up front and say, hey, it’s gonna be a month before you get your Schiit.


Completely agreed about Schiit and their estimated shipping. My first order was on 2/12 with my Mimby/Magni 3 with a ~1-2 week ship time. When the estimated time started to slip I broke my order into two just so I could get my Mimby/Magni 3 sooner. So glad I didn't wait over 6 weeks for it to ship.


I've now spent a few hours with the Loki and all of my home headphones (TH-X00 PH, HE-400i, M1060C, and DT990 250ohm) and have had some really great experiences with the TH-X00 PH and HE-400i...but really bad response from my DT990 250ohm. 

I can't seem to tune all the harshness out of the DT990, even bringing the 2kHz and 8kHz down to 10 o'clock (just makes things sound off overall). Worse, bringing 20Hz anywhere past 2 o'clock gets really sloppy sounding. I guess I'm going to be moving on from these headphones.

Verdict is still out on the M1060C with Loki. I find myself changing the tuning every other song with the M1060C vs. mostly set and forget with the TH-X00 PH and HE-400i. Will need to test more but also wanting to just spend more time with my TH-X00 PH.


----------



## mgh24

MisterMudd said:


> Many thanks. Buying one now!



Did you get the shelf?  Curious if you could buy two and stack them. Looks as though you cannot and have it secure. I  think I'm ordering one anyway.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Tuneslover said:


> Still beats Massdrop's wait time for the HD6XX or HD58X!


Don’t even get me f&&king started. MyHD6xx won’t be delivered until mid-August. And the HD650, if one can even find ‘em here in Toronto, are running for $700-800. Heh.


----------



## exdmd

The Loki is genius much praise to Schiit for their great effort. Wondering if a Loki "Max" will be coming out with more ability to adjust. Say eight knobs in a Bifrost size case SE only or a pro balanced EQ in Gungnir size. Interesting that some phones like DT990 don't seem to benefit from Loki. My HD800S work great with Loki; just the ability to boost bass scratched the itch to buy the upcoming HD 820 even if I left other three knobs at 12:00 detent.


----------



## Wickham

mgh24 said:


> Did you get the shelf?  Curious if you could buy two and stack them. Looks as though you cannot and have it secure. I  think I'm ordering one anyway.



Tell me more about the shelf. If it’s not too fancy, it might work for me. I need organization more than styling.


----------



## riffrafff

ScubaMan2017 said:


> Don’t even get me f&&king started. MyHD6xx won’t be delivered until mid-August. And the HD650, if one can even find ‘em here in Toronto, are running for $700-800. Heh.



Yeah, I'm waiting for August 13th, too, for the 6xx.  In the meantime, I picked up a Magni 3, a pair of Philips SHP9500S, and will likely buy a Loki and a Modi MB before the 6xx phones ever even arrive.   At least I'll be prepared.  lol.


----------



## earChasm

exdmd said:


> My HD800S work great with Loki; just the ability to boost bass scratched the itch to buy the upcoming HD 820 even if I left other three knobs at 12:00 detent.


You rest my case :.)
The first knob on xx:15 and thats it. Usually Im listening balanced but If I really need a tad more bass my Loki to the resque. Now grow my little friend, grow!


----------



## ScubaMan2017 (Apr 1, 2018)

earChasm said:


> You rest my case :.)
> The first knob on xx:15 and thats it. Usually Im listening balanced but If I really need a tad more bass my Loki to the resque. Now grow my little friend, grow!


If you’ve watched Little Shop Of Horrors, you know what you must feed little Loki... so he can grow up BIG & STRONG.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Shop_of_Horrors_(film)


----------



## Richsvt

Just found out that my wife ordered me a Loki for my upcoming birthday. I dropped strong hints but just awesome for her to go and do it. I'm not supposed to know but was home when the box was delivered. Now I have to play dumb for a couple weeks...very nice. Since I know I am getting this, went ahead and purchased that small acrylic rack to hold that and the Magni 3 I have. I will display it when it all comes together...


----------



## Pharmaboy

Richsvt said:


> Just found out that my wife ordered me a Loki for my upcoming birthday. I dropped strong hints but just awesome for her to go and do it. I'm not supposed to know but was home when the box was delivered. Now I have to play dumb for a couple weeks...very nice. Since I know I am getting this, went ahead and purchased that small acrylic rack to hold that and the Magni 3 I have. I will display it when it all comes together...



Nice!!


----------



## Wickham

Richsvt said:


> Since I know I am getting this, went ahead and purchased that small acrylic rack to hold that and the Magni 3 I have. I will display it when it all comes together...



Can you point me to that rack. I’m in the market.


----------



## Richsvt (Apr 6, 2018)

This is the one I found on Amazon:
Linky

There are others listed on AliExpress, different sizes...this one seemed like a good fit


----------



## riffrafff

Well, I ordered a Loki Mini on Wednesday, they shipped Thursday, and according to USPS, it should be here (in the Midwest) Saturday.  Not bad.


----------



## headpfizer

I love this little device. I use it off the pre-out of my amp into a 2nd amp to play with the sound of certain headphones. For example, giving HD800S a bass boost and turning them into fun mode. I also use it for my powered monitors which are a little V-shaped for my taste and with the Loki, I am able to gently fix them. I really do hope that Schitt explores the Loki idea further. I would certainly purchase a max version whatever it ended up being.


----------



## Pharmaboy

headpfizer said:


> I love this little device. I use it off the pre-out of my amp into a 2nd amp to play with the sound of certain headphones. For example, giving HD800S a bass boost and turning them into fun mode. I also use it for my powered monitors which are a little V-shaped for my taste and with the Loki, I am able to gently fix them. I really do hope that Schitt explores the Loki idea further. I would certainly purchase a max version whatever it ended up being.



I was terribly impressed with the Loki when I auditioned it at the Schitt booth at CanJam recently. At the time, I was having some midrange brightness/peakiness issues w/my passive studio monitors (ATC SCM12 Pro) which was disturbing, given how hightly regarded these monitors (and ATC, in general) are in the pro audio community.

As it turns out, the "problem" with the ATCs was something I was causing by misjudgements further up the audio chain. When I corrected that problem, these monitors now sound absolutely glorious--easily the best sound I've heard in my desktop system. 

So I don't need the Loki, after all--but am still very curious about it. May pick one up just to play with on my secondary DAC+HP amp chain.


----------



## exdmd (Apr 7, 2018)

If you have been considering getting a Loki best to order now before they run out of stock again. I had to wait a full month for mine. Right now Schiit site says Loki in stock, _*but*_ ships in 5-7 days


----------



## riffrafff

exdmd said:


> If you have been considering getting a Loki best to order now before they run out of stock again. I had to wait a full month for mine. Right now Schiit site says Loki in stock, _*but*_ ships in 5-7 days



It said that when I ordered, too, but it shipped the next day.  Three days from placing the order to receiving it.


----------



## Fan0Cans

ScubaMan2017 said:


> Don’t even get me f&&king started. MyHD6xx won’t be delivered until mid-August. And the HD650, if one can even find ‘em here in Toronto, are running for $700-800. Heh.


I was so stoked, I had finally decided to pull the trigger on some real nice cans, and saw that massdrops special was going on. I had my info all filled out and I noticed It was going to bill me at the end of april, cool I thought, let me check the ship date... August 30th..  so really.. September sometime in all reality. I shut the page down, launched Amazon, and bought the HD600's..


----------



## Pharmaboy

Fan0Cans said:


> I was so stoked, I had finally decided to pull the trigger on some real nice cans, and saw that massdrops special was going on. I had my info all filled out and I noticed It was going to bill me at the end of april, cool I thought, let me check the ship date... August 30th..  so really.. September sometime in all reality. I shut the page down, launched Amazon, and bought the HD600's..



August 30th ... 2018?

(really...w/some of the longer-range drops, you have to ask)


----------



## Wickham

I know the feeling. I ordered some headphones (Ossic X) on Indiegogo in September of 2016. Still waiting.


----------



## Wickham

I know the feeling. I ordered some headphones (Ossic X) on Indiegogo in September of 2016. Still waiting.


----------



## Wickham

I know the feeling. I ordered some headphones (Ossic X) on Indiegogo in September of 2016. Still waiting.


----------



## Fan0Cans

Pharmaboy said:


> August 30th ... 2018?
> 
> (really...w/some of the longer-range drops, you have to ask)



LoL.. yeah.. 2018. I'm like Nah, they would be nice, but i know i'd be happy with either, had some Amazon credit saved up from being a prime member, the HD600's ended up costing me $206..with next day delivery! Ordered them from Amazon at about 2am sunday, and by 6pm Sunday I had them in my hand lol.

Now i'm Amp hunting lol.


----------



## omniweltall

Wickham said:


> I know the feeling. I ordered some headphones (Ossic X) on Indiegogo in September of 2016. Still waiting.


Thats why i dont like to order from startups. 

Hd650 runs at 700-800? Wth?


----------



## Yevgen Chupak (Apr 17, 2018)

Hey guys, can u plus help me with my problem. Just got myself loki mini. My setup is fostex a4bl + emotiva a100bassx. Put my new loki in between those two.  Was ready to fine-tune my music... But once i will activate loki equaliser mode on... I hear just enormous amount of static noise.... And it's not like slight usb hiss or anything... It's just like u playing white noise on pretty good volume level. And once u put that lever to low positing... Everything is good again but.... So anyone of you experienced same shiit like this before?

Ps. Also did this test with fiio k5 headphone amp and results are the same.


----------



## exdmd

Yevgen Chupak said:


> Hey guys, can u plus help me with my problem. Just got myself loki mini. My setup is fostex a4bl + emotiva a100bassx. Put my new loki in between those two.  Was ready to fine-tune my music... But once i will activate loki equaliser mode on... I hear just enormous amount of static noise.... And it's not like slight usb hiss or anything... It's just like u playing white noise on pretty good volume level. And once u put that lever to low positing... Everything is good again but.... So anyone of you experienced same shiit like this before?
> 
> Ps. Also did this test with fiio k5 headphone amp and results are the same.



You have to chain DAC > Loki > Amp. Sounds like your HP-A4BL is a combined DAC/AMP and you are overloading the Loki.


----------



## Yevgen Chupak

exdmd said:


> You have to chain DAC > Loki > Amp. Sounds like your HP-A4BL is a combined DAC/AMP and you are overloading the Loki.


is it indeed amp/dac but can be used in DAC only mode.
If u are right about overloading then why it's still producing those noises even with my Phone? LGv20 (headphone jack) -> Loki -> Emotiva or K5 -> Headphones? in that chain there is no chance my smartpohone will overload it. Also, there is no mention in the manual that this should be connected to DAC only... it says "ALL SOURCES"?


----------



## TERMiNAL_

Are their any advantages of the Loki, compared to Equalizer APO?

Other than (Physical knobs)?

Equalizer APO is a great too, I like the idea of physical knobs...But why is there a start-up delay? Lots of other amps/dacs don't have a startup delay...


----------



## JamminVMI

Yevgen Chupak said:


> Hey guys, can u plus help me with my problem. Just got myself loki mini. My setup is fostex a4bl + emotiva a100bassx. Put my new loki in between those two.  Was ready to fine-tune my music... But once i will activate loki equaliser mode on... I hear just enormous amount of static noise.... And it's not like slight usb hiss or anything... It's just like u playing white noise on pretty good volume level. And once u put that lever to low positing... Everything is good again but.... So anyone of you experienced same shiit like this before?
> 
> Ps. Also did this test with fiio k5 headphone amp and results are the same.


Your Fostex is an integrated amp/dac, and the chain should be DAC/Loki/Amp.


Yevgen Chupak said:


> is it indeed amp/dac but can be used in DAC only mode.
> If u are right about overloading then why it's still producing those noises even with my Phone? LGv20 (headphone jack) -> Loki -> Emotiva or K5 -> Headphones? in that chain there is no chance my smartpohone will overload it. Also, there is no mention in the manual that this should be connected to DAC only... it says "ALL SOURCES"?


Email the nice folks @ Schiit...


----------



## Kn1nJa

Yeah, just email tech@schiit.com. They are usually pretty quick to respond.


----------



## TERMiNAL_

Guys it's DAC - Loki - Amp...

Do that.


----------



## Yevgen Chupak

tnx guys, will try.


----------



## Wickham

Yevgen Chupak said:


> tnx guys, will try.


The input to the Loki should be a line level signal, not from a headphone jack. If your phone has a signal to the USB jack, you may be able to use that.


----------



## Yevgen Chupak

Wickham said:


> The input to the Loki should be a line level signal, not from a headphone jack. If your phone has a signal to the USB jack, you may be able to use that.


Im confused.

My Fosetx has [OUTPUT] (L, R) terminals (RCA pin jack) Connect to an amplifier, etc. Outputs an analog audio signal after the DA converter, isn't it LINE out? Sry if it's a dumb question... im just starting my way


----------



## Wickham

Yes, you have it right. The Loki takes the same input you would feed to your amplifier. If that's causing noise you need to explore whether the problem is with the source (try some different ones if you can) or a defect in the Loki. The fron panel switch will bypass the equalizer circuit, so you may want to see if it's still bad in bypass mode. 

Finally, don't rule out a bad cable. I've pulled my hair out for hours only to discover that I was using a bad cable.


----------



## Yevgen Chupak

Wickham said:


> Yes, you have it right. The Loki takes the same input you would feed to your amplifier. If that's causing the noise you need to explore whether the problem is with the source (try some different ones if you can) or a defect in the Loki. The front panel switch will bypass the equalizer circuit, so you may want to see if it's still bad in bypass mode.
> 
> Finally, don't rule out a bad cable. I've pulled my hair out for hours only to discover that I was using a bad cable.



I will get myself tomorrow new USB ab AQ Forest and another interconnect and will see  meanwhile waiting for a reply from shiit


----------



## Left Channel

Yevgen Chupak said:


> is it indeed amp/dac but can be used in DAC only mode.
> If u are right about overloading then why it's still producing those noises even with my Phone? LGv20 (headphone jack) -> Loki -> Emotiva or K5 -> Headphones? in that chain there is no chance my smartpohone will overload it. Also, there is no mention in the manual that this should be connected to DAC only... it says "ALL SOURCES"?



That headphone jack puts out an amplified signal. You need to use this only with line level outputs. 

In other words, what @Wickham said, but to elaborate: if you try the suggestion of using USB then that signal would have to first go through an external DAC on its way to your Loki. I use UAPP for that. 

This is not unique to the Loki. Equalizers only work with line level signals.


----------



## Left Channel

TERMiNAL_ said:


> Are their any advantages of the Loki, compared to Equalizer APO?
> 
> Other than (Physical knobs)?
> 
> Equalizer APO is a great too, I like the idea of physical knobs...But why is there a start-up delay? Lots of other amps/dacs don't have a startup delay...



See Mike's post/rant about digital vs IRL equalizers here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wha...n-robert-hunter.784471/page-322#post-13748153


----------



## TERMiNAL_

Left Channel said:


> See Mike's post/rant about digital vs IRL equalizers here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wha...n-robert-hunter.784471/page-322#post-13748153


Thanks!


----------



## Yevgen Chupak

Left Channel said:


> That headphone jack puts out an amplified signal. You need to use this only with line level outputs.
> 
> In other words, what @Wickham said, but to elaborate: if you try the suggestion of using USB then that signal would have to first go through an external DAC on its way to your Loki. I use UAPP for that.
> 
> This is not unique to the Loki. Equalizers only work with line level signals.



I'm not using headphone jack from my Fostex, im using OUT that is on the back... those should bypass amp part and just be DAC out? Arn't they?


----------



## Left Channel

Yevgen Chupak said:


> I'm not using headphone jack from my Fostex, im using OUT that is on the back... those should bypass amp part and just be DAC out? Arn't they?



Yes that should work. This is interesting though. I just looked up the specs of that Fostex, and the output level of those RCA jacks is 2Vrms.

That is professional level power, much higher than the range of consumer line level outputs. See the table titled "Line levels and their approximate nominal voltage levels" at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_level

You may have discovered a design limitation of the Loki! You may want to mention this in your emails to Schiit Support.


----------



## TERMiNAL_

And why is there a startup delay on their products...The Topping A30/D30 has no delay...so if those are paired with the Topping, you have to turn on the Loki and wait...


----------



## Yevgen Chupak

Here is another setup.

LGV20 -> cheap jack2RCA - > Loki - AG Forest RCA2RCA -> FiiOk5 -> Shure 846.
Static is there no matter LG is connected or DISconnected...

It looks like my Loki is just a defective unit? or i just duuno ((


----------



## Astral Abyss

Yevgen Chupak said:


> Here is another setup.
> 
> LGV20 -> cheap jack2RCA - > Loki - AG Forest RCA2RCA -> FiiOk5 -> Shure 846.
> Static is there no matter LG is connected or DISconnected...
> ...



Could be that you have all the gain levels on Loki cranked up to max that's causing distortion...  That would cause terrible distortion on most peoples systems.  Why don't you try putting them all to "0" and then see if the distortion goes away.  If it does, slowly increase them to a reasonable level that your system can handle.


----------



## TERMiNAL_

Yevgen Chupak said:


> Here is another setup.
> 
> LGV20 -> cheap jack2RCA - > Loki - AG Forest RCA2RCA -> FiiOk5 -> Shure 846.
> Static is there no matter LG is connected or DISconnected...
> ...



I hear Schiit puts out a lot of defective devices


----------



## Yevgen Chupak

Astral Abyss said:


> gain levels on Loki cranked up to max



it was maxed out in the latest stages... and i took that pick after the test...


----------



## Left Channel

TERMiNAL_ said:


> And why is there a startup delay on their products...The Topping A30/D30 has no delay...so if those are paired with the Topping, you have to turn on the Loki and wait...



Protection relays. Most people leave their equipment on all the time. They say it sounds better. I'd rather save the electricity.



TERMiNAL_ said:


> I hear Schiit puts out a lot of defective devices



From what I've seen they have a very low defect rate. And that's even before compensating for the complaint loudness enhancement factor of online forums.


----------



## Yevgen Chupak (Apr 20, 2018)

This is what I hear with Loki switch OFF first and then when it's ON. All tuning levels are at mid position.

Was trying to record it with my smartphone mic from my headphones


----------



## TERMiNAL_

Yevgen Chupak said:


> This is what I hear with Loki switch OFF first and then when it's ON. All tuning levels are at mid position.
> 
> Was trying to record it with my smartphone mic from my headphones




i'd say it's...broken.


----------



## Left Channel

@Yevgen Chupak if it makes you feel any better, I zapped mine plugging and unplugging RCA jacks a hundred times with everything turned on, but Schiit repaired or replaced it for free just the same. I had it back about a week after I shipped it out: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/loki-mini-impressions.861354/page-12#post-13811835


----------



## Mizicke5273

I've been enjoying my new Loki quite a lot with my HE-500s these last few days!  Being able to add some bass here and there, where I want, is awesome.  It is especially enjoyable adding bass to anime and games.


----------



## TERMiNAL_

If I use Equalizer APO I really can't justify getting the Loki for $150 when I can get an in-depth digital equalizer for free.

Literally It would only be giving me the ability for physical adjustment.


----------



## omniweltall

TERMiNAL_ said:


> If I use Equalizer APO I really can't justify getting the Loki for $150 when I can get an in-depth digital equalizer for free.
> 
> Literally It would only be giving me the ability for physical adjustment.


Can you use asio or wasapi with the apo? Thats the only problem for me.


----------



## Left Channel (Apr 22, 2018)

TERMiNAL_ said:


> If I use Equalizer APO I really can't justify getting the Loki for $150 when I can get an in-depth digital equalizer for free.
> 
> Literally It would only be giving me the ability for physical adjustment.



If it works with all your apps and configurations, and if Mike Moffat can't convince you then I'm certainly not going to try.

I decided on this outboard equalizer to support, among other things, WASAPI exclusive mode — including native DSD and Tidal MQA pass-through signals sent untouched to my DAC.


----------



## Left Channel (Apr 21, 2018)

omniweltall said:


> Can you use asio or wasapi with the apo? Thats the only problem for me.



From the Equalizer APO SourceForge page: "APIs like ASIO or WASAPI exclusive mode can not be used".

No such problem with an outboard control like the Loki Mini.


----------



## riffrafff

TERMiNAL_ said:


> If I use Equalizer APO I really can't justify getting the Loki for $150 when I can get an in-depth digital equalizer for free.
> 
> Literally It would only be giving me the ability for physical adjustment.



Outboard analog/physical control for the win.  Love my Loki.


----------



## TERMiNAL_

riffrafff said:


> Outboard analog/physical control for the win.  Love my Loki.


How long is that start up delay for the Loki, do you find that annoying?


----------



## riffrafff

TERMiNAL_ said:


> How long is that start up delay for the Loki, do you find that annoying?



Dunno.  I've never turned it off.   I'll have to check.


----------



## Left Channel

TERMiNAL_ said:


> How long is that start up delay for the Loki, do you find that annoying?





riffrafff said:


> Dunno.  I've never turned it off.   I'll have to check.



The Loki turns on so quickly I've never noticed. Anyway it has a bypass switch on the front. 

Other Schiit products have a very noticeable delay, like my Magni 2U amp/preamp which takes about 6 seconds before the relay kicks in.


----------



## Mizicke5273

Yeah, I haven't noticed the delay and did not even know it existed.  By the time I turn on my DAC, Loki, Amp, and put on my headphones, Loki is ready to rock.


----------



## arielext

TERMiNAL_ said:


> How long is that start up delay for the Loki, do you find that annoying?


 it is noticable but then again what is a few seconds on an evening of extended music bliss?


----------



## TERMiNAL_

Hmm nobody is really saying anything bad about the Loki...and I do like the physical knobs idea...

Might be a good with the Topping A30/D30 I am getting in the mail soon...


----------



## Wickham

I think you'll like it. The choice of adjustment frequencies is really good, and the sound is never unnatural, which can happen with digital adjustments.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Saving... saving... saving my money... gotta... gotta... gotta. Want a Loki!


----------



## VRacer-111 (Apr 23, 2018)

Redid my main audio rig so that I can select the input for my stereo amp that powers my front speakers for 2 channel listening - choose between amp getting input from either my HT or my headphone systems. My main ES headphone based system setup is now as follows: Laptop -> Schiit EITR -> Gustard X20U -> Schiit Loki -> HOSA LS-333 3-way switch -> NAD C275BEE stereo amp [Speaker Output A] -> Mjolnir SRD-7 electrostatic transformer -> STAX SR-L300LE [Speaker Output B] -> Polk RTi-A5 Cherry speakers (35Hz-26kHz). The Hosa 3-way switch has the single connection section being used as output to the NAD C275BEE and the three connection section being used as inputs from my NAD T474 Front channel pre-outs for Knob position 1 and from the Schiit Loki output for knob position 2.

The Gustard/NAD275BEE/Polk RTi-A5 synergy is absolutely outstanding -  impressively dynamic, detailed, clean, and rich sound with really tight, extending, and hard hitting bass. The Loki really adds to the low frequency performance brilliantly as well, 20Hz at ~3:00 and sub-bass is VERY nice, can crank the system up LOUD and no distortion - just tight, detailed, and impactful sub-bass. Daft Punk 'Doin' it Right' immediately comes to mind...VERY nice presentation of it!


----------



## Richsvt

Just playing with Loki this evening:


----------



## Pavioni

What's old is new again.  Not terribly surprised by the buzz surrounding the Loki intro because I've never stopped using EQ's even as I progressed into higher end separate components. 
There were 2 companies that made very good,high quality equalizers here in the US - Soundcraftmen and Audio Control. When I first read Schitts  blurb about their products i was immediately reminded of Audio Controls wonderfully unconventional manuals for their late 70's equalizers,you've gotta see their illustration for hooking a mixer up to their products!
After 40+ years of using many different EQ's in many different systems i will caution those of you who want more knobs,more control,more choices - it's a tricky slope. Do you want to improve your listening enjoyment of do you want to geek out over your hardware? 
I'm very attracted to the Loki because of its well chosen frequency bands,variable Q, and diminutive size. As Julian Hirsch said about the 5 band Audio Control 520B  waaay back in 79, it's a thinking man's tone control.
Currently in my main rig i use an Audio Control C22 10 band graphic EQ - nasty ol sliders are not a problem thanks to Caigs Fader Lube and it's quality, U S construction. 35+ years after construction, whooda thunk!
Bottomline, be careful what you wish for in an EQ. It can lead to searching for the incomparable Soundcraftman AE2000 or the Audio Control C101.


----------



## FLTWS (Apr 24, 2018)

Pavioni said:


> What's old is new again.  ...



Ain't that the truth. Those young enough may not even be aware that tone controls of varying sort were the norm on receivers and preamps just a few decades ago.
Graphic equalizers tended to target the "high end" crowd. I had a Dynaco SE10 stereo equalizer for a while but discovered over time that the couple of controls on my PAS3x or PAT4
were a simpler solution as I had no way to measure in-room response of my speakers and trying to figure out where to set the sliders became an exercise in indecision.

The simplicity of the Loki is a strength. I only use it with my Jot but it does the job very well. And it's a case of less is more, too heavy a hand just mucks things up.


----------



## Tuneslover

I couldn't agree more with the 2 previous posts about "less is more".  I also have a Loki that I use on my 2 channel speaker system and find that I am able to tailor the sound to "overcome" my room induced issues.  I also have a Lake People G109S headphone amp in that setup and I do occasionally experiment with the Loki in order to tweak the sound of a couple of my headphones.  Those adjustments are minor but pleasing to my ears.  Frankly I am glad that there are only 4 control knobs otherwise I would spend too much time tweaking instead of enjoying the music.


----------



## Wickham

FLTWS said:


> I had a Dynaco SE10 stereo equalizer for a while but discovered over time that the couple of controls on my PAS3x or PAT4
> were a simpler solution



That brings back memories. I had those preamps and a Dynaco Stereo 120 power amp. Loved them.


----------



## FLTWS

Wickham said:


> That brings back memories. I had those preamps and a Dynaco Stereo 120 power amp. Loved them.


 
Good sound, fairly priced, fun to build kits.


----------



## TERMiNAL_

Now that I have the Topping A30/D30 set, I played some Pink Floyd DSD files and I was blown away by it, but I can't use the EQ with Equalizer APO because it doesn't support ASIO drivers.

Now I see a good reason to get the Loki... No way to EQ anything with ASIO.

But even flat, DSD sounded pretty incredible.


----------



## Pavioni

This place is dangerous....ordered my Loki in today. Will use it just for headphone EQ while my trusty ancient Audio Control handles the speakers EQ.


----------



## FLTWS

Pavioni said:


> This place is dangerous....ordered my Loki in today. Will use it just for headphone EQ while my trusty ancient Audio Control handles the speakers EQ.



And it never gets any safer.


----------



## rgmffn

Pavioni said:


> This place is dangerous....ordered my Loki in today. Will use it just for headphone EQ while my trusty ancient Audio Control handles the speakers EQ.


Yeah, I kinda felt like it was a bit expensive, not knowing at the time how well it would even work. I ordered mine quite early. But man, I love it!


----------



## TERMiNAL_

rgmffn said:


> Yeah, I kinda felt like it was a bit expensive, not knowing at the time how well it would even work. I ordered mine quite early. But man, I love it!



Awesome, I'm going to get one specifically sometime for DSD ASIO playback .


----------



## treecloud (Apr 25, 2018)

Pavioni said:


> This place is dangerous....ordered my Loki in today. Will use it just for headphone EQ while my trusty ancient Audio Control handles the speakers EQ.



Nice! Let us know what you think.

The Loki is a bit of an odd beast, it is perhaps most conceptually similar to the most expensive EQ ever built and marketed, the Cello Palette, designed for Mark Levinson by Dick Burwin. Odd that the least expensive is most similar to the most expensive.

The Schiit guys just love doing that.

The Palette has 6 bands instead of 4, but similar in that most of the control is at the ends of the frequency spectrum, less in the middle, and all bands are low Q. Those two things help get a good setting quickly and makes it more difficult for a newbie to screw things up. The Palette was lauded for it's natural sounding corrections.

The Loki has one other thing in common with the Palette - transparency.


----------



## TERMiNAL_

treecloud said:


> Nice! Let us know what you think.
> 
> The Loki is a bit of an odd beast, it is perhaps most conceptually similar to the most expensive EQ ever built and marketed, the Cello Palette, designed for Mark Levinson by Dick Burwin. Odd that the least expensive is most similar to the most expensive.
> 
> ...



EQ's can be intimidating, But with a 4 band EQ...just start at 12oclock and go from there 

With my Equalizer APO I have to go all over the place, more more difficult.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Just the word, "equalizer," brings back bad memories of those _el cheapo_ 20-30 band parametric equalizers w/dozens of sliders & the cheapest possible parts. Just put one in your audio chain and hear the sound quality go down (even w/it bypassed)...worse w/it engaged. phase shift from hell.

Loki couldn't be more different. It's like no audio box I ever encountered. Heard it on good headphones (AFO) at CanJam NYC & this is what I found:

it's tiny. really tiny for an EQ box. that means very little desktop space get used up
it's as transparent as anything I've ever heard. Take it out of bypass w/the 4 pots centered (no change). Set one pot slightly up or down, then take it out of bypass--now there's a change, but it's really subtle; centered right in the advertised frequency; and nothing BUT frequency changed.
This is a very well put-together, transparent, subtle piece of hardware. Did I mention the price? It's crazy/inexpensive for what you get. 

I fully intended to buy one to help tame an upper midrange anomaly in my desktop passive studio monitors--but then I rewired, added an electronic crossover, and everything got so much better that I don't "need" equalization now. I still may get one, just to play around with.


----------



## Richsvt

I had one of those 20 band EQs (BSR, I think) back in the 80s. Took me a while to realize why everything sounded so horrible until I unhooked it and threw it away.  The only thing cool about it was the spectrum analyzer. Could spend hours watching it dance. 

This little gem seems like magic. Just cool to make adjustments on the fly, even if I don't need to.


----------



## riffrafff

Yeah, the old consumer-grade slider equalizers had just tons of op-amps in them, each one adding to the noise.  And you thought double-amping was bad!


----------



## ScubaMan2017

TERMiNAL_ said:


> EQ's can be intimidating, But with a 4 band EQ...just start at 12oclock and go from there
> 
> With my Equalizer APO I have to go all over the place, more more difficult.


My toy Loki’s been ordered. Other than getting hosed by the FedEx-cancelling-Schiit-fiasco, I’m looking forward to the little silver box!


----------



## TJ Max

Is there a way to connect the Loki Mini to a the Jotunheim if the source is USB?


----------



## VRacer-111 (Apr 30, 2018)

TJ Max said:


> Is there a way to connect the Loki Mini to a the Jotunheim if the source is USB?



No, Loki is analog input... needs some form of RCA output in your equipment chain before your amp.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

VRacer-111 said:


> No, Loki is analog input... needs some form of RCA output in your equipment chain before your amp.


In my case, my (hopefully to be delivered this week) Loki will be using the following path:

Digital Source >>> Modi MB >>> Sys (passive switch) >>> Analog Loki Equalizer >>> Analog Magni3 >>> headphone(s).

Grundig Satellit multband radio >>> analog left-right RCA line out >>> Sys >>> Analog Loki Equalizer >>> ...


----------



## ScubaMan2017

_*Playing around with my new toy (after 1-2 days)*_: I could use my Loki as a coffee cup warmer! Christ-on-a-cracker, that box runs warm. I stacked it above my Magni so as to allow more rapid head dispersion. Indeed, the 20 Hz knob (bass) is slightly skewed clockwise in its neutral position. Psshhh... I'll deal with it.


----------



## Pavioni

ScubaMan2017 said:


> _*Playing around with my new toy (after 1-2 days)*_: I could use my Loki as a coffee cup warmer! Christ-on-a-cracker, that box runs warm. I stacked it above my Magni so as to allow more rapid head dispersion. Indeed, the 20 Hz knob (bass) is slightly skewed clockwise in its neutral position. Psshhh... I'll deal with it.



I also received mine 2 days ago, all controls perfectly oriented. I was surprised at how warm it seemed so I shot it with my infrared thermometer. It reads 94* consistently whether being driven or not which is 18* warmer than the walls and desk in my office and 14* warmer than the FiiO A3 at my desk. Hmmm. Will report head to head comparison soon vs an old Audio Control 520B in my near field system (pair of Minimus 7W's and a Cambridge Soundworks Ensemble IV 5.25" passive sub) powered by a Dayton 15wpc mini-D amp.


----------



## Pharmaboy

This "Loki is very warm" direction in this thread is very interesting. Trying to look at this objectively:

Schitt was apparently motivated to maintain the ultra-small factor of several other products in the Loki--allowing it to be stackable with them
That stack is small, tidy, and cute (I've seen it). Easy to see why this form-factor makes sense in marketing terms
But there's a price to be paid for that small form factor: no room inside or outside the case for heat-dissipation fins
My Liquid Carbon v2 (also rather small/on purpose) gets moderately warm after a couple hours use. Never measured it & have no way to measure it--but it may be near the 94 degrees mentioned above. LCs are prone to certain types of failure, which may or may not be a coincidence.

I honestly have no idea whether 94 degrees constant temperature, hour after hour, is harmful in any way to the internal components. Let's just say it probably isn't optimal heat management by Schitt.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Pavioni said:


> I also received mine 2 days ago, all controls perfectly oriented. I was surprised at how warm it seemed so I shot it with my infrared thermometer. It reads 94* consistently whether being driven or not which is 18* warmer than the walls and desk in my office and 14* warmer than the FiiO A3 at my desk. Hmmm. Will report head to head comparison soon vs an old Audio Control 520B in my near field system (pair of Minimus 7W's and a Cambridge Soundworks Ensemble IV 5.25" passive sub) powered by a Dayton 15wpc mini-D amp.





Pharmaboy said:


> This "Loki is very warm" direction in this thread is very interesting. Trying to look at this objectively:
> 
> Schitt was apparently motivated to maintain the ultra-small factor of several other products in the Loki--allowing it to be stackable with them
> That stack is small, tidy, and cute (I've seen it). Easy to see why this form-factor makes sense in marketing terms
> ...



I contacted Schiit's technical support. Tom E. (at info@schiit.com ) gave me the following response: _It is perfectly normal for the Loki to run warm. It will not affect performance, quality, or lifespan_.  I was hoping Schiit would be more specific with how they protect against thermal damage. Meh, it's enough for my peace-of-mind. That was interesting insight, @Pharmaboy ... I also appreciated the temperature observations, @Pavioni .


----------



## technobear

ScubaMan2017 said:


> I contacted Schiit's technical support. Tom E. (at info@schiit.com ) gave me the following response: _It is perfectly normal for the Loki to run warm. It will not affect performance, quality, or lifespan_.  I was hoping Schiit would be more specific with how they protect against thermal damage. Meh, it's enough for my peace-of-mind. That was interesting insight, @Pharmaboy ... I also appreciated the temperature observations, @Pavioni .


Thermal damage?

At 94 degrees (assuming Fahrenheit)?

I run my bath hotter than that and I have yet to suffer from thermal damage.


----------



## Pavioni

Yes,farenheit. This was the temp on the outside top case,no idea what it reaches inside. Contact me in 2 years and I'll open it up to measure it inside.
Ah,first world problems!


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Pavioni said:


> Yes,farenheit. This was the temp on the outside top case,no idea what it reaches inside. Contact me in 2 years and I'll open it up to measure it inside.
> Ah,first world problems!


Hell yeah. It's not something to freak out over.


----------



## Pavioni

How long ya reckon it'll keep my sausage biscuit warm?


----------



## TERMiNAL_

They said heat won't have any affect basically...what?

Heat can destroy motherboards and cpu's...I don't know why they said that, they make it seem like it's no possible to die because of heat.

It's probable fine to run hot, just like motherboards and cpu's but everything has a limit.

My Topping A30/D30 combo stacked ontop of eachother get warm, but never really hot..

It does warm up even more with the gain boost on though...

The A30 has different low/high/gain settings so it doesn't need to run full throttler all the time, the Magni 3 would just be full blast all the time...right?


----------



## sublime9

Pavioni said:


> How long ya reckon it'll keep my sausage biscuit warm?


That's not a euphemism, I hope.


----------



## Pavioni

Euphemisms aren't a very filling breakfast. I'll get 2 on the way to the office, eat one early and the other later. Nothing worse than a cold sausage biscuit.


----------



## riffrafff

I suspect all the little Schiit boxes will be fine, assuming their vents holes aren't covered.  My lab equipment runs much hotter, and for 18-24 hours per day...and has for years.  If you're really worried, point an axial fan at the stack.   Besides, someone wrote that they measured the outer case at 94° F...what is your body temp??


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Pavioni said:


> How long ya reckon it'll keep my sausage biscuit warm?


_...heavy breathing...



 _


----------



## Pavioni

Oooo yeah baby,food porn!
Lovin don't last,cookin do

Will post old school EQ vs upstart Loki review manana,been fun ABing these thru various phones and near field speakers this week.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Pavioni said:


> Oooo yeah baby,food porn!
> Lovin don't last,cookin do
> 
> Will post old school EQ vs upstart Loki review manana,been fun ABing these thru various phones and near field speakers this week.


...looking forward to it.


----------



## Pharmaboy

ScubaMan2017 said:


> _...heavy breathing...
> _



pictures really do say more than words. it's amazing how much I want to bite into this sausage biscuit...


----------



## omniweltall

ScubaMan2017 said:


> _...heavy breathing...
> _


That is one sick looking sausage! I would add a layer of fresh cabbage there, and just swallow the whole thing in one go.


----------



## Pavioni

So here's my take on the Loki after using it all week vs an Audio Control 520B from 1980.Note that I am old school and have always had a quality equalizer in all my systems over the years 

https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/audio-control/model-520.shtml

The 520B was a USA made 5 band EQ that was as different from its low rent competition of the day as it is similar to the new Loki.
It retailed for $120 then, so figure $380 in 2018 value. 5 rotary pots per channel with the 3 bass and 1 treble having Q ratings of 2.65-3.40 (1 octave) while the mid control was broader with a Q of 1.5 (2 octave). All bands had an adjustment range of +/- 12-15db , so the possibility was there that the user could seriously screw up the sound with an overheavy hand.The 520B also included a very effective Chebychev brickwall subsonic filter,very useful back in the vinyl is king days for the gross arm/cartridge resonance mismatches which did - and still do - occur.
Note there is no power switch, there was a practical reason for this which Schiit alludes to in their Loki write up. (non-buffered tape outputs) Perhaps the always on power supply has helped with longevity, mine is 38 years old  and working perfectly.

The Loki,of course, needs no introduction here.

My cobbled together desk system consists of Mimimus 7W's (original Japan production run) and a Cambridge Soundworks Ensemble IV passive subwoofer. Amp is a Dayton mini-D with an OK 1/4" headphone output., 15wpc. DAC is the Modi2.  Headphone used are Senn HD558 and PX200ii along with newly arrived Hifiman Edition S. 

Overall, the 520B was far more effective in EQing the speakers. Keep in mind that it was designed for the 2 way acoustic suspension designs of the 70's.
The Loki was slightly more effective in EQing headphones and much easier to adjust. With my speakers, it wasn't as pleasing as the 520B. I'll assume it was designed with the headphone market in mind.
Neither EQ added any sonic nastys  at any time. 

For those unfamiliar with using outboard EQ's, remember that your ears will always think a louder signal is a better sound. If Schiit makes a larger Loki, maybe they'll include Soundcraftsmen's Differential Comparator circuit which allows you to adjust the output gain after EQing  to exactly what is was pre-EQ?

Anyway, Loki is now going home where it will initially be used between my B&K amp and pre.   Further fun to follow!


----------



## jnak00

I've had my Loki Mini for about a month now.  It's fantastic.  I find digital EQ on many devices to muddy up the sound - a bass boost might bleed into the mids, for example.  The Loki does none of that.  It's actually pretty subtle, until you flick the bypass switch and realize how it's actually affecting the sound.  

I think this might be my favourite piece of Schiit.  I have many small pieces of Schitt - Mimby, Vail 2, Mani, Sys, Magni 2 Uber, and Loki, and while the other stuff is great, the Loki just works wonders.


----------



## Richsvt (May 4, 2018)

Audio Control, well that’s a name that doesn’t get much time. I still have my EQL (not used in many years). Loki is just a great piece. Good for you for thinking outside the box with some decent old school tech.

Sorry, seems I'm way off as my piece is from my old car audio days. Would be too difficult to work my unit into a desktop system.


----------



## gswilder

earChasm said:


> Same here, I always use the Loki with my HD800 on fixed positions. For my NH it depends, sometimes on sometimes off. I’m still in the market for a “normal” sized Loki :.)



What are your "settings" for the HD800 and the Loki?
Thanks
GW


----------



## earChasm

gswilder said:


> What are your "settings" for the HD800 and the Loki?
> Thanks
> GW


For my current setup I used to set the first knob on xx:15, the rest on neutral. But since I went full balanced I hardly ever used the Loki SE anymore so I decided to remove it from my setup.


----------



## josh6113

I just bought a schiit Loki to use between my emotiva pt-100 pre amp and crown XLS 1002 amp.It will be here within an hour or so.I bought it for dialog in movies and music.I run definitive 9060 towers in stereo.

I'll report back in a day or 2 with my impressions.


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## ScubaMan2017 (May 12, 2018)

Pavioni said:


> So here's my take on the Loki after using it all week vs an Audio Control 520B from 1980.Note that I am old school and have always had a quality equalizer in all my systems over the years
> 
> https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/audio-control/model-520.shtml
> 
> ...





jnak00 said:


> I've had my Loki Mini for about a month now.  It's fantastic.  I find digital EQ on many devices to muddy up the sound - a bass boost might bleed into the mids, for example.  The Loki does none of that.  It's actually pretty subtle, until you flick the bypass switch and realize how it's actually affecting the sound.
> 
> I think this might be my favourite piece of Schiit.  I have many small pieces of Schitt - Mimby, Vail 2, Mani, Sys, Magni 2 Uber, and Loki, and while the other stuff is great, the Loki just works wonders.



I’m having a blast screwing around with my Loki. For the curious, the following is my method:
a. I hit the books. I borrowed a copy of _Home Studio Recording For Dummies_ from my library.  It had an entire chapter on equalizing ones' work. I made copies of Tables 14-1 (_EQ Frequency Sound Characteristics_) and Table 14-2 (_EQ Recommendations per Instrument [15 different ones]_).
b. Add labels to my Loki. 1, 2, 3, 4 to match the knobs.
c. I used Schiit's Loki manual to define "bass", " mid-bass", "mid-range", and "treble".
d. *Now the interpretation starts*: I attempted to match the Loki's adjustment frequencies (20 Hz, 400 Hz, 2 kHz, and 8kHz) to tables 14-1 and 14-2.
e. When I want to "add body or depth"... or "reduce muddiness"... or "cut sibilance [whatever that is]", I use my tables and _gently_ muck about with the appropriate knob.


----------



## josh6113

sibilance is the sssss sounds you hear in audio.


----------



## riffrafff

Hey @Jason Stoddard,  how come my new Loki Mini's case has a completely different sheen than my Magni 3 and Mimby?    

And are you still shipping the SYS with a case that doesn't match the rest of your 5"x3.5" components?  I've been holding off on one, hoping to see one that matched.  Maybe add $20 to the price for those who would like the matching aesthetics?


----------



## ScubaMan2017

riffrafff said:


> Hey @Jason Stoddard,  how come my new Loki Mini's case has a completely different sheen than my Magni 3 and Mimby?
> 
> And are you still shipping the SYS with a case that doesn't match the rest of your 5"x3.5" components?  I've been holding off on one, hoping to see one that matched.  Maybe add $20 to the price for those who would like the matching aesthetics?


I received my SYS this month... it had a beefy steel alloy case (unlike the lighter bushed aluminum chasis). Meh... It sits under my Modi Multibit. Doing its thing.


----------



## riffrafff

ScubaMan2017 said:


> I received my SYS this month... it had a beefy steel alloy case (unlike the lighter bushed aluminum chasis). Meh... It sits under my Modi Multibit. Doing its thing.



Thanks for that info.  My Schiit Stack™ already looks like Neapolitan ice cream.


----------



## FaezFarhan

Would the Loki distort the bass / disturbs other frequencies of the HD800s? Planning to use it to boost some bass.


----------



## Pharmaboy

I heard the Loki @canjam NYC under typical show conditions (louder than my home office, but not nearly as loud as the center hall exhibitors). I was using an above average headphone (Aeon Flow Open) to check it out. Here's what I heard:

With the 4 pots set to center position (zero effect), then switching the Loki in & out of the circuit, there was zero difference in sound quality apart from a tiny volume difference w/it in line. 
With the Loki in the circuit, listening to bass-heavy, well recorded pop (Michael Jackson's Thriller), rotating the volume knob to right (increasing bass volume) revealed a rather subtle sound change. Other than a slight uptick in volume of selected bass range, no change in bass quality, tonality, etc. 
Turning the bass knob even further just increased the bass volume somewhat more. I didn't succeed in making the AFO's bass sound cartoonish or bloated. If there's any distortion coming from the Loki, I certainly didn't hear it.
Effects of the other 3 pots were very similar: subtle & not changing sound quality in any real way.

Evidently the slopes of each volume pot are shallow, and these devices are well designed/implemented, because the overall effects are subtle & not harmful to sound quality.

Though I didn't try the HD800 w/the Loki, my guess would be its effect would be subtle and positive. 

Just a guess...and my exposure to the Loki was relatively brief & during show conditions, so take this w/a grain of salt.


----------



## exdmd

FaezFarhan said:


> Would the Loki distort the bass / disturbs other frequencies of the HD800s? Planning to use it to boost some bass.



The Loki will not "... distort the bass / disturbs other frequencies of the HD800s". I have been using a Loki with HD800s for some months now.


----------



## kehorton (May 20, 2018)

The Loki has let me listen too my HE500s again. As much as I liked those cans, I eventually stopped because the treble region started getting really "hot" after a short while, so I could never listen long without wanting to pull them off my head. Which made me sad as I spent more money trying to find "that sound" I was looking for. (But never did)

Then I put the Loki between the black Bimby and black Jot (sad to not have a black Eitr or Loki). Played around a lot with every knob.

Finally realized I needed just a small change - not to make the table regions calmer, but just round up the bass a little. Ticked 20hz to 2 oclock. Ticked 400 hz to 1 oclock. Really just a nice gentile lift, nothing dramatic.

Bam. I can now listen for hours still loving everything I used to like about them, now just more pleasant ('more balanced' to my ears).

I think in retrospect, before I would just turn them up too loud, trying to find a stronger bass presence.

I never got digital eq right before as it was too easy to make huge peaks and valleys looking for a change, which just screwed up the whole sound. I think it was brilliant to have the changes be gradual as you initially turn them for fine tweaks.

Thanks @Jason Stoddard !

(Edit: stupid phone keyboard typos)


----------



## omniweltall

kehorton said:


> Ticked 200 hz to 1 oflock


You mean 400 hz?


----------



## kehorton

omniweltall said:


> You mean 400 hz?


Yes, thanks.Fixed


----------



## omniweltall

kehorton said:


> Yes, thanks.Fixed


Glad you rediscovered a new love for your old can with the Loki.

My fav frequency range is the 20hz. I even use it for my LCD2C.

Enjoy mate!


----------



## treecloud

kehorton said:


> The Loki has let me listen too my HE500s again. As much as I liked those cans, I eventually stopped because the treble region started getting really "hot" after a short while, so I could never listen long without wanting to pull them off my head. Which made me sad as I spent more money trying to find "that sound" I was looking for. (But never did)
> 
> Then I put the Loki between the black Bimby and black Jot (sad to not have a black Eitr or Loki). Played around a lot with every knob.
> 
> ...



So Loki = less Audio Nervosa and more Musical Pleasure...and a big step in the direction of the demystification of audio. In other words, really good Schiit.

Great post.


----------



## smodtactical

kehorton said:


> The Loki has let me listen too my HE500s again. As much as I liked those cans, I eventually stopped because the treble region started getting really "hot" after a short while, so I could never listen long without wanting to pull them off my head. Which made me sad as I spent more money trying to find "that sound" I was looking for. (But never did)
> 
> Then I put the Loki between the black Bimby and black Jot (sad to not have a black Eitr or Loki). Played around a lot with every knob.
> 
> ...




Could you simply do this with a software equaliser ? What makes loki better aside form convenience of physical knobs ?


----------



## renault4

kehorton said:


> The Loki has let me listen too my HE500s again. As much as I liked those cans, I eventually stopped because the treble region started getting really "hot" after a short while, so I could never listen long without wanting to pull them off my head. Which made me sad as I spent more money trying to find "that sound" I was looking for. (But never did)
> 
> Then I put the Loki between the black Bimby and black Jot (sad to not have a black Eitr or Loki). Played around a lot with every knob.
> 
> ...




any chance of a photo or two of your setup? I'm interested in seeing how the Loki sits amongst its larger cousins!


----------



## treecloud

smodtactical said:


> Could you simply do this with a software equaliser ? What makes loki better aside form convenience of physical knobs ?



I only have experience with the EQ in JRiver, but it seems transparent to me, and I'm able to get a perfectly adequate curve with it. It's not system wide however and I listen to Tidal also. I have no experience with the system wide software, and don't really want to bother with it. I have an integrated DAC amp (Massdrop O2+ODAC) and just bought a Topping D50 in the last drop so  can stick a Loki in there.

The advantage to the Loki is it makes "learning" EQ faster (not that it's all that difficult) because it addresses broad tonal balance issues only, you can't "notch filter" anything, which is a good thing - if your system is up to snuff in a general sense you really don't want that kind of EQ anyway. In fact that's one of the main reasons EQ has a bad rap to begin with, the other one is it wasn't transparent.

You might say a well designed EQ almost forces you to use it correctly. And then you begin to realize what a powerful tool it is - it can replace a lot of the tweaky crap (not schiit) you used to do trying to get the balance suited to your preference.


----------



## exdmd (May 21, 2018)

It's a touchy subject but many consider analog equalization to sound better than digital. Also if you are streaming Tidal direct from your laptop to DAC you are limited to using a Loki between the DAC and amp.

The Cello Audio Palette analog equalizer provided six frequency adjustment controls for each channel at 15 Hz, 120 Hz, 500 Hz, 2 kHz, 5 kHz and 25 kHz and cost $6500 in 1992.







The four channel Loki is the bargain of the year at $149. _(Cello Audio Palette photo courtesy of TAS.)_


----------



## rgmffn

smodtactical said:


> Could you simply do this with a software equaliser ? What makes loki better aside form convenience of physical knobs ?


 Have a look at this link. I think he knows best. 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wha...n-robert-hunter.784471/page-322#post-13748153


----------



## treecloud

exdmd said:


> It's a touchy subject but many consider analog equalization to sound better than digital. Also if you are streaming Tidal direct from your laptop to DAC you are limited to using a Loki between the DAC and amp.
> 
> The Cello Audio Palette equalizer provided six frequency adjustment controls for each channel at 15 Hz, 120 Hz, 500 Hz, 2 kHz, 5 kHz and 25 kHz and cost $6500 in 1992.
> 
> ...



If there was a beauty contest for audio components the Palette would surely be a contender. And the tactile feel of the level controls was...exquisite. I suppose it still is. I never owned one, but I had the pleasure of using them on many occasions.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

smodtactical said:


> Could you simply do this with a software [equalizer] ? What makes loki better aside form convenience of physical knobs ?


It's ALL about the knobs. Knobs, knobs, knobs. Also, I appreciate Schiit deciding upon 4 channels (and frequency ranges) to monkey around with.  My Foobar2000 player has a VERY detailed software equalizer (its processing helps me manage overly loud recordings [i.e., ReplayGain]).  Meh, personal preference.
 ...and...


----------



## Pharmaboy

"It's ALL about the knobs."

Finally, something we can all agree on.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

I wanted to dig deeper into tone control... how EXACTLY does my LOKI work? I read @Baldr & @Jason Stoddard  's blogs and realized that I'm NOT an electrician_ (and we should worship those people [and preach, let your baby grow up to be a sparky]_).  Anyway, I discovered guitar builders have many resources about how tone control is used to affect output (i.e., a guitar isn't simply plugged into an amp and then into a stack of loudspeakers).  For those who want more background, here are 2 suggested resources:
Which control pot to use.
...and...
How a tone control works.


----------



## kehorton

smodtactical said:


> Could you simply do this with a software equaliser ? What makes loki better aside form convenience of physical knobs ?



Probably? I had tried a lot with the JRiver eq options and it always sounded "wrong". I don't know why. I do know I have listened for 4+ hours for the first time in a very long time with my Loki


----------



## kehorton

renault4 said:


> any chance of a photo or two of your setup? I'm interested in seeing how the Loki sits amongst its larger cousins!



Sure. I'm sure others have a better eye for this type of thing. This helped me keep cables super-short when they needed to be.
(balanced to HE-500s)

Caveat 1: I suck a photography. Caveat 2: this is at work with a white table next to an off-white wall 


 

I *really* like black Schiit more than the silvered/grey (I've gone through a good amount of Schiit).


----------



## kehorton

omniweltall said:


> Glad you rediscovered a new love for your old can with the Loki.
> 
> My fav frequency range is the 20hz. I even use it for my LCD2C.
> 
> Enjoy mate!



Yep - I find myself only touching that knob - tweaking between 2 and 3 oclock


----------



## omniweltall

kehorton said:


> Yep - I find myself only touching that knob - tweaking between 2 and 3 oclock


Try 4 o'clock  But hey, I'm a bass head.


----------



## renault4

kehorton said:


> Sure. I'm sure others have a better eye for this type of thing. This helped me keep cables super-short when they needed to be.
> (balanced to HE-500s)
> 
> Caveat 1: I suck a photography. Caveat 2: this is at work with a white table next to an off-white wall
> ...



thanks for this view! i think it really helps get a sense of the proportional sizes of the different units. I do like the black!

now, any chance to see the cabling at the back? I have a Valhalla 2 and I would need to make sure the cables dont run near the tubes.

thanks!


----------



## PanusKatus

I’ve bought a lot of crap in my time but I’ve finally pulled the trigger on my first piece of Schiit. My Loki should be arriving tomorrow and I’m looking forward to some fun knob twiddling. I’ve skimmed through the thread but didn’t notice any experiences of this device with Elears or PM3s, so I would like to hear thoughts any of you guys might have on settings for these cans. I’m guessing perhaps some boost in the upper mids/lower treble region for the Elears and maybe a little treble hike for the PMs? Even if you don’t have a Loki, perhaps you could use your experiences of eq-uing these ‘phones to make suggestions for settings. My Loki will go into a vinyl-based system with a Burson Soloist SL and I have no prior experiences of using anything more complicated than bass and treble knobs on systems back in the day. Cheers.


----------



## VRacer-111

kehorton said:


> Sure. I'm sure others have a better eye for this type of thing. This helped me keep cables super-short when they needed to be.
> (balanced to HE-500s)
> 
> Caveat 1: I suck a photography. Caveat 2: this is at work with a white table next to an off-white wall
> ...



Why don't you put the Jotenheim on the Bifrost and Loki on the EITR? Black stack for DAC/amp and silver stack for SPDIF/EQ...kind of like this:


----------



## Tuneslover

PanusKatus said:


> I’ve bought a lot of crap in my time but I’ve finally pulled the trigger on my first piece of Schiit. My Loki should be arriving tomorrow and I’m looking forward to some fun knob twiddling. I’ve skimmed through the thread but didn’t notice any experiences of this device with Elears or PM3s, so I would like to hear thoughts any of you guys might have on settings for these cans. I’m guessing perhaps some boost in the upper mids/lower treble region for the Elears and maybe a little treble hike for the PMs? Even if you don’t have a Loki, perhaps you could use your experiences of eq-uing these ‘phones to make suggestions for settings. My Loki will go into a vinyl-based system with a Burson Soloist SL and I have no prior experiences of using anything more complicated than bass and treble knobs on systems back in the day. Cheers.



Half the fun is simply playing with the Loki until you find the settings you like.  Fortunately it's pretty simple with only 4 knobs to adjust.  Enjoy!


----------



## exdmd

PanusKatus said:


> I’ve bought a lot of crap in my time but I’ve finally pulled the trigger on my first piece of Schiit. My Loki should be arriving tomorrow and I’m looking forward to some fun knob twiddling. I’ve skimmed through the thread but didn’t notice any experiences of this device with Elears or PM3s, so I would like to hear thoughts any of you guys might have on settings for these cans. I’m guessing perhaps some boost in the upper mids/lower treble region for the Elears and maybe a little treble hike for the PMs? Even if you don’t have a Loki, perhaps you could use your experiences of eq-uing these ‘phones to make suggestions for settings. My Loki will go into a vinyl-based system with a Burson Soloist SL and I have no prior experiences of using anything more complicated than bass and treble knobs on systems back in the day. Cheers.



Elears have a pronounced dip in FR at 5 kHz. Unfortunately Loki adjusts at 20 Hz, 400 Hz, 2 kHz and 8 kHz. May not be ideal for Elears; I would try slight boost on 2 kHz and 8 kHz. The PM3 probably need a boost at 20 Hz, 400 Hz. Tyll's measurements show a sharp dip at 6 kHz the Loki may be unable to correct you will just have to experiment to get best sound for your ears. Again try slight boost on 2 kHz and 8 kHz. I really hope Schiit comes out with a Loki 2 with an extra knob for adjustment at 5 kHz.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Tuneslover said:


> Half the fun is simply playing with the Loki until you find the settings you like.  Fortunately it's pretty simple with only 4 knobs to adjust.  Enjoy!


I got carried away with cross referencing the frequencies with recording guides. While informative, it was indeed unnecessary. I'm appreciating the 4-knob approach as I learn more about tone control. And I find myself turning it off ("before/after/before/after") less and less. Mighty fine, mighty fine. @VRacer-111 has a nice set up, btw.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

exdmd said:


> It's a touchy subject but many consider analog equalization to sound better than digital. Also if you are streaming Tidal direct from your laptop to DAC you are limited to using a Loki between the DAC and amp.
> 
> The Cello Audio Palette analog equalizer provided six frequency adjustment controls for each channel at 15 Hz, 120 Hz, 500 Hz, 2 kHz, 5 kHz and 25 kHz and cost $6500 in 1992.
> 
> ...


_Crimme. Knob nirvana. If I ever get a chance to listen to one of these refurbished devices, I'd be intrigued!_


----------



## omniweltall

Btw, 400hz is not really mid-bass, more like low-mid. Mid-bass is around 100-200hz afaik.


----------



## rutter

Would this work with a Questyle CMA400i used as both a DAC and an amp?


----------



## omniweltall

Unfortunately no. You need a separate DAC & Amp, whereby Loki comes in the middle.


----------



## rutter

Do me a favor please. Turn the third knob (2khz) left and right. Does your sound shift laterally? If I boost/i.e. turn it right the sound is shifted left, if I reduce/turn it left the sound is shifted right. It's the only knob that results in such movement. Did I get a defective unit?


----------



## riffrafff

rutter said:


> Do me a favor please. Turn the third knob (2khz) left and right. Does your sound shift laterally? If I boost/i.e. turn it right the sound is shifted left, if I reduce/turn it left the sound is shifted right. It's the only knob that results in such movement. Did I get a defective unit?



If mine does, my ears cannot detect it.


----------



## Pavioni

Mine does not. Email Schiit.


----------



## rutter

Yea, they should cover most of the shipping as well in such a case. Almost $30 cheapest on the way to me, and I'll have to pay $13 more to send it back, let alone if I elect to get a replacement.

I'm not sure whether I should get a replacement as opposed to a refund. Turning the bass from 12 to 5:30/max creates far more boom than punch, reminding me of the gimmicky bass boost of other devices. I tested the 8khz knob similarly and was surprised to see that it affected vocals, which I thought were much further down. The other two knobs were a little strange too. What I ended up doing was turning all to 2 o'clock, then 3, which had a potentially good effect, but that is dependent on whether it can't be reproduced simply by turning up the volume. The lateral imbalance was apparent though and it's clearly the third knob causing it.


----------



## riffrafff

Wow.  I've never turned the bass (20 Hz) to more than 2:30 or so (and seldom even that far).  I'm not surprised that it gets muddled by the time it reaches 5:30.


----------



## rutter (Jun 3, 2018)

It doesn't do that much up to 2:30, as described by Schiit. It's not the amazing device it was made out to be, but perhaps still useful. By the way, out of curiosity, are older equalizers really that bad that this thing comes out with four knobs and some people think it's a big deal? I was expecting a lot, and while it might have merit, I think some people were exaggerating.


----------



## riffrafff

rutter said:


> It doesn't do that much up to 2:30, as described by Schiit. It's not the amazing device it was made out to be, but perhaps still useful. By the way, out of curiosity, are older equalizers really that bad that this thing comes out with four knobs and some people think it's a big deal? I was expecting a lot, and while it might have merit, I think some people were exaggerating.



I seldom touch the other three knobs; I find that the 20Hz knob helps to restore some of the bass I lose with open-back headphones. 

There's a youtube video out there that shows the knobs' effect, overlap and Q with some graphs.  I just use it for minute corrections.  It can't fix horribly recorded/mastered recordings.


----------



## rutter

Not what I'm trying to fix.


----------



## rgmffn

I experimented with my Loki on several sets of HPs. Not all of them responded positively to excessive adjustments. Especially the 20Hz knob. With some HPs, mostly dynamic, when turning the bass up, it just got boomy. They couldn't handle the extra bass gain. My planars are really the only ones that responded favorably. Any adjustments were easily apparent and the change in sound was what was expected. 
So, the Loki is not going 'work' in every setup.


----------



## rutter

I'm using the planar Hifiman Edition X v2.


----------



## omniweltall (Jun 3, 2018)

@Baldr

Dear Mike,

I usually put the Loki after the Mimby and before the Saga. 

Is it possible to put the Loki after the Saga and before the amp instead? Something like this: Mimby -> Saga -> Loki -> Magni 3. 

I tried this and there was a loud hum. Was wondering if I'm not supposed to do this. The reason why I wanna do it is so that the Loki can be used with multiple DACs.


----------



## treecloud

rgmffn said:


> I experimented with my Loki on several sets of HPs. Not all of them responded positively to excessive adjustments. Especially the 20Hz knob. With some HPs, mostly dynamic, when turning the bass up, it just got boomy. They couldn't handle the extra bass gain. My planars are really the only ones that responded favorably. Any adjustments were easily apparent and the change in sound was what was expected.
> So, the Loki is not going 'work' in every setup.



I've also noticed dynamic driver headphones cannot take increases in bass EQ gracefully. My guess is it's because these drivers, being small full range moving coil designs, become non linear relatively quickly. Think of it this way: if you took a typical dynamic headphone driver out of the headphone and mounted it on a speaker box you would have a driver that could only function as a tweeter.

The same would be true for a headphone planar driver too, but for some reason they have greater bass headroom in context of headphones. I'd guess that's because of the constrained edge design of planar drivers, perhaps combined with properties of driver elasticity.

In any case I've noticed this with electrostatic and planar magnetic headphones, they simply take bass EQ much better than dynamic driver headphones. There may be exceptions to this, my experience is limited to 3 examples of each type, but in each of the 6 cases the result was pretty much exactly the same.


----------



## treecloud

rutter said:


> It doesn't do that much up to 2:30, as described by Schiit. It's not the amazing device it was made out to be, but perhaps still useful. By the way, out of curiosity, are older equalizers really that bad that this thing comes out with four knobs and some people think it's a big deal? I was expecting a lot, and while it might have merit, I think some people were exaggerating.



There are basically two types of equalizers, one for broad relatively subtle corrections of tonal balance, the other for fixing drastic problems in relatively narrow band situations. Up to very recently most EQs on the market were of the latter variety, but ironically they are the least useful for most listeners.

Simple bass and treble corrections on older receivers and such are of the former variety and can be quite useful if they also happen to be reasonably transparent. You actually have control of three bands with simple bass and treble controls, midrange is controlled also by moving bass and treble up or down relative to midrange.

Typically also, of the (very) few examples of broad range tonal balance type EQs (other than simple bass and treble on receivers etc), greater adjustment of the frequency extremes is needed relative to midrange. In other words, not much adjustment is typically needed in the midrange, if any. So those controls can be more gradual acting and not need to have as much total range of adjustment. This is how Loki is designed. These types of EQ, when one comes to appreciate what they do, can be very useful in taking a system that last few yards toward the highest levels of musicality that particular system is capable of. It's one of those subtle, but not subtle, things.

EQs meant to fix drastic narrow band problems are less and less useful as audio record and playback technology improves. It's one of the reasons they are not seen on market much anymore, and it's quite possible EQs more similar to Loki will become more popular because they remain useful in the context of every room is different, and speakers and headphones remain the components with the most aural variability of all.

The EQs we see in digital systems are modeled on the narrow band format, presumably because that is what is familiar. These are more complex and so more difficult to use in the context of subtle tonal correction (they type most often needed), but it can still be done...it requires more familiarity and skill with tone correction however, the type of skill a mastering engineer would posses for example. In other words it can be easier to "get it wrong" than right with one of these devices if you are "new" to using EQ.

For function, for most listeners, Loki is a very capable design as you become familiar with what it does. In terms of value it's off the chart good IMHO.


----------



## omniweltall

treecloud said:


> There are basically two types of equalizers, one for broad relatively subtle corrections of tonal balance, the other for fixing drastic problems in relatively narrow band situations. Up to very recently most EQs on the market were of the latter variety, but ironically they are the least useful for most listeners.
> 
> Simple bass and treble corrections on older receivers and such are of the former variety and can be quite useful if they also happen to be reasonably transparent. You actually have control of three bands with simple bass and treble controls, midrange is controlled also by moving bass and treble up or down relative to midrange.
> 
> ...


Very good explanation. Thank you.


----------



## exdmd (Jun 3, 2018)

I agree Loki is incredible value. Just wish there was one more band at 5 kHz or that Schitt came out with a Loki 2 with 6 bands matching the long discontinued Cello Audio Palette: 15 Hz, 120 Hz, 500 Hz, 2 kHz, 5 kHz, 25 kHz.

From Cello Audio Palette owners manual:


> 25 kHz: extreme high frequencies,overtones, air and spatial components, including upper parts of cymbals, strings, etc.This control does affect much more than just the upper most sounds-you will probably be surprised at how much you use it.
> 
> 5 kHz: the heart of the high frequency range, with a broad effect. Use in conjunction with the 25kHz control to achieve the best high frequency sound.
> 
> ...


----------



## omniweltall

exdmd said:


> I agree Loki is incredible value. Just wish there was one more band at 5 kHz or that Schitt came out with a Loki 2 with 6 bands matching the long discontinued Cello Audio Palette: 15 Hz, 120 Hz, 500 Hz, 2 kHz, 5 kHz, 25 kHz.
> 
> From Cello Audio Palette owners manual:


Agreed. These FR would be very nice. 

I would also like a balanced input/output just in case I have a balanced DAC.


----------



## PanusKatus

exdmd said:


> Elears have a pronounced dip in FR at 5 kHz. Unfortunately Loki adjusts at 20 Hz, 400 Hz, 2 kHz and 8 kHz. May not be ideal for Elears; I would try slight boost on 2 kHz and 8 kHz. The PM3 probably need a boost at 20 Hz, 400 Hz. Tyll's measurements show a sharp dip at 6 kHz the Loki may be unable to correct you will just have to experiment to get best sound for your ears. Again try slight boost on 2 kHz and 8 kHz. I really hope Schiit comes out with a Loki 2 with an extra knob for adjustment at 5 kHz.



Many thanks. Very useful.


----------



## treecloud

exdmd said:


> I agree Loki is incredible value. Just wish there was one more band at 5 kHz or that Schitt came out with a Loki 2 with 6 bands matching the long discontinued Cello Audio Palette: 15 Hz, 120 Hz, 500 Hz, 2 kHz, 5 kHz, 25 kHz.
> 
> From Cello Audio Palette owners manual:



Agree...in a Bifrost size case...would be pretty sweet.


----------



## talmadge

treecloud said:


> I've also noticed dynamic driver headphones cannot take increases in bass EQ gracefully. My guess is it's because these drivers, being small full range moving coil designs, become non linear relatively quickly. Think of it this way: if you took a typical dynamic headphone driver out of the headphone and mounted it on a speaker box you would have a driver that could only function as a tweeter.
> 
> The same would be true for a headphone planar driver too, but for some reason they have greater bass headroom in context of headphones. I'd guess that's because of the constrained edge design of planar drivers, perhaps combined with properties of driver elasticity.
> 
> In any case I've noticed this with electrostatic and planar magnetic headphones, they simply take bass EQ much better than dynamic driver headphones. There may be exceptions to this, my experience is limited to 3 examples of each type, but in each of the 6 cases the result was pretty much exactly the same.




At least one exception would be my sony Z1R's. Responds nicely to the 20 hz knob.


----------



## exdmd

treecloud said:


> Agree...in a Bifrost size case...would be pretty sweet.



Absolutely, and like @omniweltall mentioned with both single ended and balanced inputs/outputs. I think they would sell a Schiit-load at $495. I'd pay more as long as they could sell under $1000.


----------



## VRacer-111

exdmd said:


> Absolutely, and like @omniweltall mentioned with both single ended and balanced inputs/outputs. I think they would sell a Schiit-load at $495. I'd pay more as long as they could sell under $1000.



Under $500 would be acceptable to me. If you start creeping to $1k you would have to compete with the RME ADI-2 DAC, which has 5 band fully customizeable PEQ built in to an excellent reference class DAC/amp.


----------



## Zachik

treecloud said:


> Agree...in a Bifrost size case...would be pretty sweet.





exdmd said:


> Absolutely, and like @omniweltall mentioned with both single ended and balanced inputs/outputs. I think they would sell a Schiit-load at $495. I'd pay more as long as they could sell under $1000.



...and PLEASE use better knobs!
The ones on the Loki are looking and feeling very cheap.


----------



## omniweltall (Jun 4, 2018)

VRacer-111 said:


> Under $500 would be acceptable to me. If you start creeping to $1k you would have to compete with the RME ADI-2 DAC, which has 5 band fully customizeable PEQ built in to an excellent reference class DAC/amp.


Isnt the RME a digital EQ? There are free ones. What I want is analog EQ.

I wouldnt worry abt pricing with Schiit products. They have been very fair. Unlike certain brands.

Loki is the next best thing after ketchup. Better knobs would be nice though


----------



## FLTWS

omniweltall said:


> Isnt the RME a digital EQ? There are free ones. What I want is analog EQ.
> 
> I wouldnt worry abt pricing with Schiit products. They have been very fair. Unlike certain brands.
> 
> Loki is the next best thing after ketchup. Better knobs would be nice though



And knobs with the  "null" notch at the 12 o'clock position would be nice.


----------



## omniweltall

FLTWS said:


> And knobs with the  "null" notch at the 12 o'clock position would be nice.


So that we can have a better feel of what is 1/2 and 1/4? Yeah definitely. I dont even know which is half when using Loki


----------



## jnak00

FLTWS said:


> And knobs with the  "null" notch at the 12 o'clock position would be nice.



The knobs on mine have a detent at 12:00.  Or is that not what you mean?


----------



## treecloud (Jun 4, 2018)

talmadge said:


> At least one exception would be my sony Z1R's. Responds nicely to the 20 hz knob.



According to Sony page they have a 2.75" driver...size w/ excursion could do the job. Also extension on top to 120k !

Expensive puppies, but bet they sound good.


----------



## FLTWS (Jun 4, 2018)

jnak00 said:


> The knobs on mine have a detent at 12:00.  Or is that not what you mean?



None of mine "detent" at the 12 o'clock position. Its not a big deal to me as I only use it with Jot and HD800. For people who use it with more than 1 HP makes returning to the points you want to more difficult. But still the norm would be for those knobs to detent at 12o'clock, not 1 or 1:30, or elsewhere on the range of movement.


----------



## jnak00

FLTWS said:


> None of mine "detent" at the 12 o'clock position. Its not a big deal to me as I only use it with Jot and HD800. For people who use it with more than 1 HP makes returning to the points you want to more difficult. But still the norm would be for those knobs to detent at 12o'clock, not 1 or 1:30, or elsewhere on the range of movement.



Strange.  Do yours lack the detent altogether, or is it at 1:00 or 1:30?


----------



## FLTWS (Jun 4, 2018)

jnak00 said:


> Strange.  Do yours lack the detent altogether, or is it at 1:00 or 1:30?



The detents are there but all are offset to the right a bit by slightly different amounts and I'm not inclined to pull Loki apart to reposition the pots. It's just not that big a deal and all are off on average around 12:30 to 12:45 position on my unit. When I said 1:00 to 1:30 it was by way of example. I also believe I got one of the very early production Loki's, and this unit is so small there's not a lot of space under the hood to work around inside so I don't consider it that important, and its only $149.00, still an outright bargain in today's market. And it does exactly what it is supposed to do with no distortion I can hear, but then I don't crank a knob to the point of unrealistic sound, or just for effect. Like I said previously, I only feel a need to use it with Jot and HD800. If I had a 2-channel system Loki would most likely get more use around the speaker / room interface.

Still, a single detent should be at the center of its full range L to R and positioned at the 12 o'clock position, at least that's the only way I think  I've ever seen such a positioning scheme on any audio product I've owned.


----------



## Tuneslover

jnak00 said:


> The knobs on mine have a detent at 12:00.  Or is that not what you mean?



I think his Loki (as many others out there, including mine) don't click precisely into the 12 o'clock null position.


----------



## technobear

For Pete's sake, they are just pushed on! Pull them off and then put them back on straight.


----------



## Tuneslover

technobear said:


> For Pete's sake, they are just pushed on! Pull them off and then put them back on straight.



Have you actually tried that?


----------



## FLTWS (Jun 4, 2018)

technobear said:


> For Pete's sake, they are just pushed on! Pull them off and then put them back on straight.



The problem isn't the knob. Its the pots shaft and pot positioning. The knob has a plastic bushing that accepts the semi circular metal shaft of the pot. The bushings hole positioning appears correct with the almost invisible line indicating the knobs position on the outside front of the knob.

Its the pots themselves that are cocked slightly to the right on my unit. There is a thin hex nut that appears to hold the pot(s) in position. One could maybe work some needle nose pliers in there, loosen the nut and try and re-position the pot and its shaft so that its detent is at 12 and re-tighten the nut and hope its position doesn't shift in the process. And also hope something doesn't snap or bind as you try and re-position it.

Forcing the knob into a position of 12 o'clock on the pot shaft does nothing, the pots physical detent will still be off of the 12 position and that's what needs to be at the 12 o'clock position. I guess its also possible to strip out the bushing and eventually the knob could end up spinning uselessly instead of turning the pots stem. I think those pliers could be used in that case to adjust the settings.. One could also apply enough force to turn the knob(s) counterclockwise in an attempt to re-position the pot and hope something doesn't break.

For $149.00 I decided to leave it all alone and use as is.


----------



## exdmd

^ +1. Just leave the knobs alone and enjoy the Loki. Expecting absolute perfection under $200 is probably unreasonable considering there is no SQ degadation from the slightly off center knobs. Two of my knobs detent exactly at 12:00 and two are at about 12:15. Nothing to worry about really. Unless you are really bothered by small discrepancies then you are probably in the wrong hobby for your wallet


----------



## jnak00

To be honest I can't really see those markings on the knobs, so I've just assumed the detent is at 12:00 on mine.  On closer inspection, one of them is actually very slightly off - like 12:15.  Doesn't bother me one bit.


----------



## riffrafff

jnak00 said:


> To be honest I can't really see those markings on the knobs, so I've just assumed the detent is at 12:00 on mine.  On closer inspection, one of them is actually very slightly off - like 12:15.  Doesn't bother me one bit.



Same here; the other three are fine.  No biggie.


----------



## omniweltall

exdmd said:


> ^ +1. Just leave the knobs alone and enjoy the Loki. Expecting absolute perfection under $200 is probably unreasonable considering there is no SQ degadation from the slightly off center knobs. Two of my knobs detent exactly at 12:00 and two are at about 12:15. Nothing to worry about really. Unless you are really bothered by small discrepancies then you are probably in the wrong hobby for your wallet


Actually in my opinion, however low the pricing is, it should be an SOP to make a "perfect" product out to custy. Low-priced should not be any different than high-priced in terms of manufacturing quality. But Schiit is not perfect and  I just hope in the future they can identify the problem and improve on this.


----------



## technobear

Sorry, my bad. I need new glasses. I could have sworn those shafts were round.

The pots are soldered directly to the circuit board so no chance of shifting them.


----------



## treecloud (Jun 5, 2018)

technobear said:


> Sorry, my bad. I need new glasses. I could have sworn those shafts were round.
> 
> The pots are soldered directly to the circuit board so no chance of shifting them.



If we can assume manufacturing tolerances in the pots are not the reason for the slight misalignment of the knobs some people are seeing, then perhaps the bottom of the pots are not completely flush to the board at the time they are soldered into place. ??


----------



## technobear

It's possible the knobs themselves are to blame. They are just metal shells with moulded plastic inserts. Perhaps there is some room for error in their manufacturing process.


----------



## treecloud

technobear said:


> It's possible the knobs themselves are to blame. They are just metal shells with moulded plastic inserts. Perhaps there is some room for error in their manufacturing process.



perhaps it's possible then to rotate the inserts slightly in the metal shells...but I wouldn't do it with the knob mounted on the pot, might damage the pot. best advice is probably "don't sweat the small stuff". this "problem" is cosmetic not functional.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Tuneslover said:


> I think his Loki (as many others out there, including mine) don't click precisely into the 12 o'clock null position.


 Interesting observation. My Loki does have that tactile ‘click’ when the knob is rotated into the 12:00, null position. Serial number 26002708 (model SCH-26). Would I like big knobs? SURE.


----------



## riffrafff

It's a non-issue for me.  I can't see the bloody index marks, anyway.  Especially whilst looking into those white LEDs in a darkened room.


----------



## exdmd

Put some round silver Light Dims over all your Schiit LED's. Matches the case and cuts the brightness by about 80% - 90%. You can still see the LED when it is on (even during daylight) but it is no longer annoying especially at night. Schiit really needs to switch to less intense LED's perhaps a nice soft blue color. When I got my Vali 2 the LED was so bright I had to look away from it and covered the LED with blue painters tape until the Light Dims arrived.


----------



## slankoe

SCHIIT LOKI MINI EQ QUICK REVIEW

Just throwing in my $0.02 here. In short, I liked the Loki Mini quite a lot. I owned it for a few months only, in that time three things stood out: it is useful for analogue sources, brilliantly simple, and exceptionally transparent.

Firstly, I don't listen to vinyl very much as most of my music is acquired digitally, but a lot of masters or certain releases in general just cannot be bought - or are unavailable - on CD or digital files. You can't digitally EQ an analogue source, of course; that's where this little gizmo shines bright.

A thing of beauty is the sheer simplicity of Loki. I thought I'd want more knobs and independently adjustable "Q," but ultimately I was quite satisfied. I came to realize that I'm really not a fan of parametric equalizers when it comes to recreational music listening. As someone who composes music as hobby, I already obsess over that enough - to this Loki whispers "just enjoy the music."

Finally the other aspect I really appreciated, is it's transparency. There really is no noticeable hum or buzz at any listening volume or beyond. For this aspect alone it is worthy of consideration to be stuck in between audio components. When I briefly owned the HD800, nothing was more satisfying than bringing the 20 Hz knob all the way up and turning them into bass-cannons. It worked fine with other cans I tried also such as the HD650 and Utopias, all that without sacrificing sound quality even at the extremes. Big plus in my book.

Having said that, I was not using Loki much after I sold HD800. Partly responsible for this is that I had chosen my cans for their stock sound long beforehand. Given this and that I'm not using my vinyl library as often as my digital, the value proposition wasn't really valid for my use case. I am happy to report that it's new owner has expressed much satisfaction for some of the very same reasons that inspired this sort review. If it suits your use also, this is a rather good purchase. Another job well done by Schiit. Cheers.

http://www.schiit.com/products/loki


----------



## MisterMudd

slankoe said:


> SCHIIT LOKI MINI EQ QUICK REVIEW
> 
> Just throwing in my $0.02 here. In short, I liked the Loki Mini quite a lot. I owned it for a few months only, in that time three things stood out: it is useful for analogue sources, brilliantly simple, and exceptionally transparent.
> 
> ...


Very cool! Thanks for the thoughtful review.


----------



## sbradley02

I really love my ETHER C Flow, but always wished for a bit more bass. The Loki is perfect for this.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

MisterMudd said:


> Very cool! Thanks for the thoughtful review.





sbradley02 said:


> I really love my ETHER C Flow, but always wished for a bit more bass. The Loki is perfect for this.


 ... Thanks for your post, @slankoe ... 4 knobs. Would I like more? Sure. Would I know how to properly use them? Probably not. I'm also using it to add bass to my newly-acquired Senheisser HD6xx . It's a fun device. I'd recommend it.


----------



## FaezFarhan

Got my Loki today. It’s supposed to be in between the DAC and amp right? Love how the manual keeps repeating that we should use a high quality rca cable haha, I’m using 2 $5 ones at the moment!

Would this be good? FURUTECH FA-220 PCOCC single crystal copper rcas


----------



## FLTWS

FaezFarhan said:


> Got my Loki today. It’s supposed to be in between the DAC and amp right? Love how the manual keeps repeating that we should use a high quality rca cable haha, I’m using 2 $5 ones at the moment!
> 
> Would this be good? FURUTECH FA-220 PCOCC single crystal copper rcas



Yes, between the DAC and amp.
No experience with that cable wire you mention, but as I understand it, Furutech do make high quality connectors.
Schiit offers short jumper cables very reasonably priced as well. I think they are made by Straight Wire for them.


----------



## FaezFarhan

FLTWS said:


> Yes, between the DAC and amp.
> No experience with that cable wire you mention, but as I understand it, Furutech do make high quality connectors.
> Schiit offers short jumper cables very reasonably priced as well. I think they are made by Straight Wire for them.


Okay after a 5 min impression session, I can't hear any difference with Loki. Am I expecting too much or my one is faulty?


----------



## FLTWS

FaezFarhan said:


> Okay after a 5 min impression session, I can't hear any difference with Loki. Am I expecting too much or my one is faulty?



What position is the bypass switch in?
You are moving the knobs right?
You have input and output connections correct right?
Wallwart is plugged in?


----------



## riffrafff

Yeah, sumpthin' ain't right.  I just barely turn my Loki's knobs for ample results.


----------



## Kn1nJa

If you turn the leftmost knob all the way to the right, you should definitely hear a MAJOR difference. As the others have said, make sure the switch on the front is up and that the LED is lit.

If all else fails, email tech@schiit.com and they will take care of you.


----------



## Wickham

And of course be sure that the input and output cables are not reversed. That would cause the symptoms you're reporting.


----------



## Sniperpr5

Has anyone heard any whispers of a balanced Loki anytime soon?


----------



## omniweltall

Nothing so far. But that would be DA $hit.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

Sniperpr5 said:


> Has anyone heard any whispers of a balanced Loki anytime soon?


actually i asked jason directly and he said not anytime soon. possibly down the line a ways but dont expect it in the near future.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

so i got my loki yesterday from a member here and its a more recent one and it even has 2 of the knobs slightly off, very slightly. otherwise its flawless. cant wait to test it out!! if i like is i may buy a few so i have one for each setup instead of trying to split it out to different amps. im also hoping for either a balanced loki or at least one with more control maybe 8-10 bands at least. coming from many many years in the car audio field i have come to really enjoy eq's and feel they can make a great difference when used properly. i also much prefer analog eq's over digital unless in dealing with things like time delay etc


----------



## ScubaMan2017

FLTWS said:


> What position is the bypass switch in?
> You are moving the knobs right?
> You have input and output connections correct right?
> Wallwart is plugged in?


_I still forget about turning the bloody Loki on... and wonder why it isn't changing tones_. Interestingly, the manual advises leaving the unit powered on... even if bypassed. I don't bother. I can't detect any degradation in audio quality. Still a fun box in my set up (next step, move the entire rig to the living room and set up a listening nook)...


----------



## ledzep

Just want to pick someone's brains if possible, got my source plugged into the Loki then into the magni 3. Wanting to add my Vali 2 into the chain any advice on this ?


----------



## riffrafff

ledzep said:


> Just want to pick someone's brains if possible, got my source plugged into the Loki then into the magni 3. Wanting to add my Vali 2 into the chain any advice on this ?



I use a pair of RCA "Y-cables" from the Loki to Magni 3 and Vali 2.


----------



## ledzep

riffrafff said:


> I use a pair of RCA "Y-cables" from the Loki to Magni 3 and Vali 2.



Thought that would be an option, thanks for the working confirmation.


----------



## Wickham

riffrafff said:


> I use a pair of RCA "Y-cables" from the Loki to Magni 3 and Vali 2.


I'm usually suspicious of Y cables, but yours look very good. Where did you find them?  I would like to be able to go from the Loki to either of two amplifiers without re-plugging. 

Do you lose any quality, phase weirdness, etc. by splitting the signal?


----------



## rgmffn

ledzep said:


> Just want to pick someone's brains if possible, got my source plugged into the Loki then into the magni 3. Wanting to add my Vali 2 into the chain any advice on this ?


I would use a Schiit Sys if it was me.


----------



## riffrafff

Wickham said:


> I'm usually suspicious of Y cables, but yours look very good. Where did you find them?  I would like to be able to go from the Loki to either of two amplifiers without re-plugging.
> 
> Do you lose any quality, phase weirdness, etc. by splitting the signal?



I've tried unplugging the Y's alternately;  my ears cannot detect a difference.  ymmv, of course.

These are the cables.




rgmffn said:


> I would use a Schiit Sys if it was me.



I would use a SYS on the outputs instead of a Y.  I believe the input impedance is high enough on these amps to virtually negate audible issues.  At least so far.


----------



## omniweltall

I use the Saga as a pre-amp.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

as long as you use a decent quality rca y you will not have any issues. i prefer using some type of switching a/b device but either way will work just fine.


----------



## ledzep

riffrafff said:


> I've tried unplugging the Y's alternately;  my ears cannot detect a difference.  ymmv, of course.
> 
> These are the cables.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a plan and adds another nice looking piece to the stack , question is how would you use the volume dial seeing as your going to use one on the magni/ Vali 2 ?


----------



## riffrafff

ledzep said:


> Sounds like a plan and adds another nice looking piece to the stack , question is how would you use the volume dial seeing as your going to use one on the magni/ Vali 2 ?



Right now I have no plans to add a SYS.  At least not until I add another component that might require its use (and I have no idea what that component would be, at this point in time).  The Y-cable from the Loki to the Magni and Vali is working fine for me.  

I have read, though, that if one uses the SYS as a simple switch box, one can just leave the SYS' volume control on max.


----------



## Wickham

omniweltall said:


> I use the Saga as a pre-amp.


I see the Saga has multiple inputs. I guess I'm looking for something that would provide multiple switched outputs. I'd like to be able to output from the Loki to one of several headphone amps.


----------



## omniweltall

Wickham said:


> I see the Saga has multiple inputs. I guess I'm looking for something that would provide multiple switched outputs. I'd like to be able to output from the Loki to one of several headphone amps.


Saga has 5 inputs and 2 outputs. I wish it has more outputs, but it is sufficient in my case.


----------



## sbradley02

Wickham said:


> I see the Saga has multiple inputs. I guess I'm looking for something that would provide multiple switched outputs. I'd like to be able to output from the Loki to one of several headphone amps.


Any passive source switcher should be able to be used in either direction.


----------



## Zachik

Wickham said:


> I see the Saga has multiple inputs. I guess I'm looking for something that would provide multiple switched outputs. I'd like to be able to output from the Loki to one of several headphone amps.


Do you need to output to multiple amps AT ONCE, or would ONE-AT-A-TIME be good?
I have recommendations for either scenario...


----------



## JamminVMI

riffrafff said:


> Right now I have no plans to add a SYS.  At least not until I add another component that might require its use (and I have no idea what that component would be, at this point in time).  The Y-cable from the Loki to the Magni and Vali is working fine for me.
> 
> I have read, though, that if one uses the SYS as a simple switch box, one can just leave the SYS' volume control on max.


That’s right, I use the Sys that way to use either Vali 2 or Lyr 3 with Bifrost and Loki. Sounds great!


----------



## ScubaMan2017

I’m re-rippmg my CD collection, and upgrading my files to ALAC (meh, I use iTunes to rip it... and Foobar2000 to listen to it [I understand iTunes organizes my albums]).
I’m rediscovering some good tunes!
And then I listened to my 1994-era issue of The Wall, by Pink Floyd.
Oy, what the hell happened to it!? On my PC (using an attached headphone) disc 1 sounded muffled and under-water... NOT like how I remember it on my 1990s JVC boom-box.
SCHIIT LOKI TO THE RESCUE. Pipe the files to my listening nook & let my silver boxes process it.

Yep, much better.  Psychosomatic effect? Maybe.... 

Love My Loki!


----------



## fonna

can I use this with an all in one dac/amp? or do I need a separate dac for the loki to work?


----------



## sbradley02

fonna said:


> can I use this with an all in one dac/amp? or do I need a separate dac for the loki to work?


You would need a DAC/Amp that had DAC out and amp in connections, I have never seen one, but they might exist. Most likely you will need separate units. This is a line level unit so it needs to sit between source and amp.


----------



## tracyrick

I tried to read through most of this thread before posting...I think this is a new question.

[Gear/Usage case: Fiio X3ii with 10 band EQ, Magni 3, HP is Audeze Sine]

When using my Audeze Sine, I usually follow the advice of Tyll (Inner Fidelity) and EQ my 16K down by 5db. I also turn up 500 & 1K by 1db. The treble on this phone is just way too bright for me, and this somewhat fixes it, with issues...Whether real or not, when I cut 16K like this, I perceive a sucking out of air and treble and all the good things that go along with 16K.

Question: Will Loki cut 16K any differently than X3ii? Will more goodness be retained? How are they different?

Bonus question: Also using my X3ii, I've tried increasing 31 and 62 on the low end and that's a real disaster. Instead of actually just boosting those frequencies, it causes all the other frequencies to drop in volume. I don't really seem to get a "bass boost" by doing that. Is this just how EQ works, or is my X3ii EQ a P.O.S.? (not the good P.O.S. that is Shiit?)

I read in the LCD2 Classic thread about using the Loki to boost the low end. It sounds like it works well in that case. Based on my experience, the X3ii does NOT work well. Or maybe it's the Sine that's the problem.


----------



## ScubaMan2017 (Sep 22, 2018)

sbradley02 said:


> You would need a DAC/Amp that had DAC out and amp in connections, I have never seen one, but they might exist. Most likely you will need separate units. This is a line level unit so it needs to sit between source and amp.


You’ve picked up a Loki, right? @fonna  ... I think you’ll be very pleased with it. If your finances allow it, it’s a great way to clean up audio.  The Loki is connected in series between the (audio output [RCA left & right connections]) and your (headphone or floor speaker amplifier). I picked up short (~1-1.5ft) cables to daisy-chain them together.

Btw - my Loki has taught me about the different frequencies that can be finessed. I added extra labels to my Loki to match some tables I found in a _Music Production For Dummies _book. No schiit.

Edit - I screwed up the posters, @sbradley02 ... sorry about that.


----------



## hornytoad

damn this is a nice device. Some high end headphones roll off the high and low ends. You can use this neat little device to tweak that.


----------



## Tuneslover

hornytoad said:


> damn this is a nice device. Some high end headphones roll off the high and low ends. You can use this neat little device to tweak that.



Another enlightened one, welcome to the club.


----------



## Slim1970

I picked up one these to use with my Gilmore Lite Mk2. I agree with what everyone is saying about this jewel of a device. I use it to fix the upper mid/lower treble dip on my Audeze LCD-2CB's. Now they are some the best closed headphones I've heard. I like the LCD-2CB’s much more now with the correction applied that I'm considering selling my Z1R's


----------



## omniweltall

Slim1970 said:


> I picked up one these to use with my Gilmore Lite Mk2. I agree with what everyone is saying about this jewel of a device. I use it to fix the upper mid/lower treble dip on my Audeze LCD-2CB's. Now they are some the best closed headphones I've heard. I like the LCD-2CB’s much more now with the correction applied that I'm considering selling my Z1R's


I also use it to correct the upper mid on the LCD-2C, making female vocals more forward. Very easy fix.


----------



## renault4

If I were slotting this in between a similar sized DAC and amp, say a Modi and Magni, I would go with the PYST RCA cable also from Schiit and simply add the Loki to the vertical stack. However to use the Loki with a Bifrost and a Valhalla, I will need to place the unit off to side, and the PYST cables are too short for that; what cables are folks using if not the above?


----------



## h.rav

renault4 said:


> If I were slotting this in between a similar sized DAC and amp, say a Modi and Magni, I would go with the PYST RCA cable also from Schiit and simply add the Loki to the vertical stack. However to use the Loki with a Bifrost and a Valhalla, I will need to place the unit off to side, and the PYST cables are too short for that; what cables are folks using if not the above?



Blue Jeans Cable. They have better build quality, shielding, and connectors.


----------



## FLTWS

Loki; I'm hard pressed to think of another product in the Schiit line-up that provides so much bang for the buck user wise. It will, however, require a purist to go rogue and relax their standards


----------



## Elecroestatico

fonna said:


> can I use this with an all in one dac/amp? or do I need a separate dac for the loki to work?


I think what you wanted to ask is if you need a separate AMP for loki to work, not a separtate DAC like you said. Of cource you need a dac or a dac/amp then the output signal will go to the loki and then to a separate AMP. I don't have the loki so I dont know how it will sound if you connect your headphones directly to the loki's output rca jacks, but if it doesn't work then you will need a separate headphone amplifier


----------



## sbradley02

h.rav said:


> Blue Jeans Cable. They have better build quality, shielding, and connectors.


You beat me to it 
They are also orderable at any length you want. I use these between my Jolida tube DAC, Loki, and Bryston headphone amp, and they sound great.
You don't have to spend a ton of money to get great cables.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

sbradley02 said:


> You beat me to it
> They are also orderable at any length you want. I use these between my Jolida tube DAC, Loki, and Bryston headphone amp, and they sound great.
> You don't have to spend a ton of money to get great cables.


My vote, Amazon Basics cables. Monoprice Item # 5346.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

i prefer to make all of my own cables where possible. i enjoy it and i know how i want them to be being pretty ocd myself i take a ton of extra care with things like soldering and shrink wrap etc. i tend to buy connectors in bulk when i find one i like in a certain type. like a few years back i bought out a stock of streetwires (car audio) rca ends from a seller for the top of the line ones they used to sell got em for like under 8cents each lol.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> i prefer to make all of my own cables where possible. i enjoy it and i know how i want them to be being pretty ocd myself i take a ton of extra care with things like soldering and shrink wrap etc. i tend to buy connectors in bulk when i find one i like in a certain type. like a few years back i bought out a stock of streetwires (car audio) rca ends from a seller for the top of the line ones they used to sell got em for like under 8cents each lol.


I tried splicing 3 coaxial cables together... once. I ended up playing whack-a-mole with an ohmmeter looking for faults. Moral: don't splice... run fresh cable.


----------



## gtbrown50

Like so many others, I love my Loki not only for what it does, but the feeling that I'm not stuck with a particular sound with a piece of music or HPs. I would like to comment on those that note that the frequency they want to increase doesn't fall within the ranges of the four eq points. I often decrease the surrounding frequencies and get the desired results, so I find that the Loki provides much more adjustment ranges than first thought.


----------



## hakka

Is the aluminium finish of the loki the same as the modi&magni 3?


----------



## CaptainFantastic

The one I got from Schiit Europe was different (brighter finish) than the Modi Multibit and Magni 3. So do check.


----------



## hakka

Thanks


----------



## ScubaMan2017

hakka said:


> Is the aluminium finish of the loki the same as the modi&magni 3?



I received my Loki in the Spring. It has the same finish as the Modi-MB and Magni3.


----------



## psuKinger

renault4 said:


> If I were slotting this in between a similar sized DAC and amp, say a Modi and Magni, I would go with the PYST RCA cable also from Schiit and simply add the Loki to the vertical stack. However to use the Loki with a Bifrost and a Valhalla, I will need to place the unit off to side, and the PYST cables are too short for that; what cables are folks using if not the above?



Slightly different take/angle on this very same question.  I've got a Schiit Jotunheim with the built-in D/S DAC.

I am toying with the idea of adding an external MIMBY and Loki Mini to my collection.  The price and (alleged) performance upgrades are *very* appealling to me.  The only thing holding me back is the aesthetic/issue with size mismatch (my Jot isn't in a dark/secluded bedroom/den desktop; it's in a very open/often used Sunroom, and requires some WAF as a result).

Does anyone on here have any pictures of a Loki (or Modi/Mimby or both) stacked with an Asgard or Jot (or even Bifrost) sized 9"x6"x2" box?


Also, can anyone comment/help me understand what adding a Loki might mean for the balanced outputs on my Jot?  I'm currently only using the single-ended, but I *think* I'm getting some periapt balanced XLR's for at least one (if not both) of my most-used headsets for Christmas... will the Loki not play well with Balanced XLR output?  If so, will it not impact Balanced XLR usage if in "bypass"?

Thanks for any pics and/or balanced-XLR-thoughts anyone might have...


----------



## spanner43

psuKinger said:


> Does anyone on here have any pictures of a Loki (or Modi/Mimby or both) stacked with an Asgard or Jot (or even Bifrost) sized 9"x6"x2" box?


----------



## technobear

psuKinger said:


> Slightly different take/angle on this very same question.  I've got a Schiit Jotunheim with the built-in D/S DAC.
> 
> I am toying with the idea of adding an external MIMBY and Loki Mini to my collection.  The price and (alleged) performance upgrades are *very* appealling to me.  The only thing holding me back is the aesthetic/issue with size mismatch (my Jot isn't in a dark/secluded bedroom/den desktop; it's in a very open/often used Sunroom, and requires some WAF as a result).
> 
> ...


Loki Mini is a single-ended line level device. It does NOT go between the amp and the headphones. It goes between the DAC (Mimby) and the amp (Jot).


----------



## psuKinger

technobear said:


> Loki Mini is a single-ended line level device. It does NOT go between the amp and the headphones. It goes between the DAC (Mimby) and the amp (Jot).



Agreed, but perhaps not understood?

I understand/understood that the Loki goes between the DAC and the Amp.

What I'm asking/not understanding (and acknowledging this might be a REALLY dumb question) is if I have a DAC (like a MIMBY, for example) and an Amp like a Jot that supports Balanced XLR output), would putting a Loki inbetween the Mimby and the Jot impact any/all of the "advantages" of having an amp that supports Balanced XLR output?


----------



## technobear

psuKinger said:


> Agreed, but perhaps not understood?
> 
> I understand/understood that the Loki goes between the DAC and the Amp.
> 
> What I'm asking/not understanding (and acknowledging this might be a REALLY dumb question) is if I have a DAC (like a MIMBY, for example) and an Amp like a Jot that supports Balanced XLR output), would putting a Loki inbetween the Mimby and the Jot impact any/all of the "advantages" of having an amp that supports Balanced XLR output?


The connection between Mimby and Jot will be single ended. Adding Loki will make no difference to the Jot.


----------



## Nostoi

Has anyone had a chance to compare the Loki Mini with the DSP EQ on Roon? I am really impressed with the latter, but don't really need the other metadata functions. If the Loki does a similar job to the Roon's EQ, that would be interesting. Thanks.


----------



## gtbrown50

Nostoi said:


> Has anyone had a chance to compare the Loki Mini with the DSP EQ on Roon? I am really impressed with the latter, but don't really need the other metadata functions. If the Loki does a similar job to the Roon's EQ, that would be interesting. Thanks.



I used the Roon EQ briefly, found it awkward and cumbersome to use. The Loki sits on my amp and I simply adjust it as I wish while I'm listening, or switch in it or out of circuit, simple. For me, a wealth of functionality is of no use if the interface is awkward. i have two Lokis and use them daily.


----------



## Nostoi

gtbrown50 said:


> I used the Roon EQ briefly, found it awkward and cumbersome to use. The Loki sits on my amp and I simply adjust it as I wish while I'm listening, or switch in it or out of circuit, simple. For me, a wealth of functionality is of no use if the interface is awkward. i have two Lokis and use them daily.


Thanks for the feedback; just took a plunge on the Loki.


----------



## chimney189

I just purchased the Loki .. I'm pretty excited.  This seems like a much better alternative than investing thousands of dollars in upgrading cables, amps or even a new headphone.

Anyway,
My chain so far is the Burson DA-160 usb connected to my laptop while the Cavalli Liquid Carbon is connected to the Burson DA-160.  If I add the Loki then am I to connect it to the Burson DA-160 only?


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Nostoi said:


> Thanks for the feedback; just took a plunge on the Loki.





chimney189 said:


> I just purchased the Loki .. I'm pretty excited.  This seems like a much better alternative than investing thousands of dollars in upgrading cables, amps or even a new headphone.
> 
> Anyway,
> My chain so far is the Burson DA-160 usb connected to my laptop while the Cavalli Liquid Carbon is connected to the Burson DA-160.  If I add the Loki then am I to connect it to the Burson DA-160 only?



I think you'll be pleased with the Loki Mini.


----------



## Nostoi

ScubaMan2017 said:


> I think you'll be pleased with the Loki Mini.


Thanks, I'll let you know my impressions. One question on the Loki - does one have to connect the RCA output to a separate amp in order for it to function or can one use an amp/dac hybrid with RCA connection (thinking here of the IFI iDSD Micro) solely with the input on the Loki? 

In addition, has anyone used the Loki with the Chord Mojo?

Many thanks.


----------



## Left Channel

Nostoi said:


> Thanks, I'll let you know my impressions. One question on the Loki - does one have to connect the RCA output to a separate amp in order for it to function or can one use an amp/dac hybrid with RCA connection (thinking here of the IFI iDSD Micro) solely with the input on the Loki?
> 
> In addition, has anyone used the Loki with the Chord Mojo?
> 
> Many thanks.



I don't think it will work with the iDSD micro or the Mojo. It needs to sit between a DAC and an amp, connected via line-level (not amplified) RCA audio inputs and outputs.


----------



## technobear

Loki Mini is still doing its job here and doing it very well.

Still hoping for a bigger and better model from Schiit


Nostoi said:


> Thanks, I'll let you know my impressions. One question on the Loki - does one have to connect the RCA output to a separate amp in order for it to function or can one use an amp/dac hybrid with RCA connection (thinking here of the IFI iDSD Micro) solely with the input on the Loki?


source/DAC --> Loki --> amp --> speaker/headphone

You could use iDSD as the source/DAC from the RCAs on the rear.

You could also use iDSD as the amp through the 3.5mm input on the front panel.

This was discussed before and memory fades but I don't think it is possible to do both at the same time. Anyone tried it?


----------



## Nostoi (Jan 5, 2019)

Left Channel said:


> I don't think it will work with the iDSD micro or the Mojo. It needs to sit between a DAC and an amp, connected via line-level (not amplified) RCA audio inputs and outputs.


So, it wouldn't work with RCA to 3.5mm cables? I.e., Mojo - 3.5mm output to RCA on Loki -


technobear said:


> Loki Mini is still doing its job here and doing it very well.
> 
> Still hoping for a bigger and better model from Schiit
> 
> ...


Right, that's what I was thinking - DAC - Loki - Amp - Headphone.

That would work on the iDSD because it has RCA cables, but can I run RCA to 3.5mm cables on the Mojo using the headphone input? I was also hoping to to run the Loki's output into my Fostex HP-V1 using RCA to 3.5mm  into the Fostex's line-out. Thanks

Alternatively, I assume it can be connected to a DAC/AMP hybrid like the Fostex HP-A4BL without problem using RCA?


----------



## technobear (Jan 5, 2019)

Nostoi said:


> So, it wouldn't work with RCA to 3.5mm cables? I.e., Mojo - 3.5mm output to RCA on Loki -
> 
> Right, that's what I was thinking - DAC - Loki - Amp - Headphone.
> 
> That would work on the iDSD because it has RCA cables, but can I run RCA to 3.5mm cables on the Mojo using the headphone input? I was also hoping to to run the Loki's output into my Fostex HP-V1 using RCA to 3.5mm  into the Fostex's line-out. Thanks


You are either very confused or very sloppy in your use of the terms 'input' and 'output'. It is crucial to get them right if you want sensible advice here.

Where a signal goes into a device is an 'input'.

Where a signal comes out of a device is an 'output'.

There is therefore no such thing as a 'headphone input'. That would be nonsense as headphones don't generate signals (pedants be silent!)

Also connecting Loki's output to the HP-V1 line-out (an output) is nonsense.

Please have a little think and come back with what you actually want to do here.

The RCA's on the back of the iDSD are outputs. They allow you to use iDSD as a DAC and connect it's output to an amp (or a Loki). For this you can use a standard RCA stereo interconnect.

The Fostex is an amp and has a line-in which is 3.5mm so you would need an RCA to 3.5mm stereo interconnect from the Loki line-out to the Fostex line-in.

Here's hoping that's what you meant.

Edit: oh and if you do this, set the iDSD to 'Direct' mode (switch on the underside near the RCAs) and use the Fostex to control the volume.


----------



## Left Channel

Nostoi said:


> So, it wouldn't work with RCA to 3.5mm cables? I.e., Mojo - 3.5mm output to RCA on Loki -
> 
> Right, that's what I was thinking - DAC - Loki - Amp - Headphone.
> 
> ...



Not sure about the iDSD, but the Mojo appears to have only an amplified output which is no good for the Loki. This is a bit of a struggle to figure out, because the Loki is intended primarily for use with desktop components not portable all-in-ones.


----------



## Slim1970

gtbrown50 said:


> I used the Roon EQ briefly, found it awkward and cumbersome to use. The Loki sits on my amp and I simply adjust it as I wish while I'm listening, or switch in it or out of circuit, simple. For me, a wealth of functionality is of no use if the interface is awkward. i have two Lokis and use them daily.


Same here. I don't even bother with digital EQ's anymore since I got the Loki. It sits right on top of my Gilmore Lite Mk2 perfectly. It's easy to adjust and corrects what I think is missing from my headphones. It's a great investment.


----------



## Nostoi

technobear said:


> You are either very confused or very sloppy in your use of the terms 'input' and 'output'. It is crucial to get them right if you want sensible advice here.
> 
> Where a signal goes into a device is an 'input'.
> 
> ...



"Please have a little think and come back with what you actually want to do here" - this takes me back to my old Oxbridge philosophy tutor. 

Forgive the muddled terminology; I was momentarily multi-tasking. 

But yes, you have the gist. I'm aware the Loki is designed for desktop usage, I was just curious if I could implement some my portable DACs along the way. 

In short, based on what you say, it does look as though one could connect the iDSD to the Loki and on to the Fostex using the connections you suggest. Much obliged for the pointers.


----------



## Zachik

Slim1970 said:


> It sits right on top of my Gilmore Lite Mk2 perfectly.


Same here!! 
Great fit size-wise


----------



## technobear

Left Channel said:


> Not sure about the iDSD, but the Mojo appears to have only an amplified output which is no good for the Loki. This is a bit of a struggle to figure out, because the Loki is intended primarily for use with desktop components not portable all-in-ones.


The Loki is a line-level device. Line in. Line out. 2 Volts preferred.

iDSD can do this from its RCA outputs. Just select 'Direct' rather then 'Preamp' and you're good to go.

I don't know if Mojo has a fixed output mode.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Nostoi said:


> Thanks, I'll let you know my impressions. One question on the Loki - does one have to connect the RCA output to a separate amp in order for it to function or can one use an amp/dac hybrid with RCA connection (thinking here of the IFI iDSD Micro) solely with the input on the Loki?
> 
> In addition, has anyone used the Loki with the Chord Mojo?
> 
> Many thanks.


The Loki is *strictly *an analog device: L/R input and L/R output. *My flow:* Modi (DAC) L/R output >>>>> Loki >>>>> amplifiers. I split the signal from the Loki to a Vali (hybrid tube headamp) and a Magni (s-state headamp). I don't run the 2 amps at the same time (as I only use headphones). As long as the connections were snug, I didn't detect any nasty signal loss. *BTW,* the manual advises leaving the Loki on to prevent signal loss when it's on 'bypass'. I don't bother to do it (my headphone don't pick up any degradation). 

_I've heard many good things about the Chord Mojo! _How does it pair up with a Loki....?.......


----------



## technobear

ScubaMan2017 said:


> _I've heard many good things about the Chord Mojo! _How does it pair up with a Loki....?.......


It doesn't.

The Mojo has no analogue input so you can't use it as a headphone amp.

It does have an analogue output but this is the headphone output and I don't know if it is suitable to use as a line out. You might be able to use Mojo as the source. You would need to add a headphone amp to the mix.


----------



## JWahl (Jan 6, 2019)

technobear said:


> It doesn't.
> 
> The Mojo has no analogue input so you can't use it as a headphone amp.
> 
> It does have an analogue output but this is the headphone output and I don't know if it is suitable to use as a line out. You might be able to use Mojo as the source. You would need to add a headphone amp to the mix.



It’s perfectly acceptable to use the output of the Mojo as a standard DAC, I did so for quite a while before upgrading to the Qutest.  However, I recently sold my Qutest and replaced it with a used Grace M9xx and Loki paired with my Gilmore Lite Mk. 2. It seems I’m at least the third person with this Loki-amp combo.

If using the Loki between the Mojo and another amp, it would be wise to be mindful of the output level on the Mojo as not to send too high of an input level to the connected amp.

That’s part of why I got the Grace, so I can tweak the level going into the Loki and amp.  That and I’ve decided it’s financially wiser to tweak tone with something like the Loki than constantly buying and selling gear for slight differences in sonic character. 

I love my tweaking options now. Decent crossfeed and filters on the Grace paired with EQ from the Loki. I almost thought about adding iFi’s tube buffer, but that might just be one too many mismatched boxes.

I was originally worried the 4 bands might be too few, but they seem to be very well chosen and effective for addressing important tonal regions. For my HD-650, a bit up on the first and fourth knobs and a touch down on the second seem to work very well.


----------



## chimney189 (Jan 7, 2019)

EDIT:  NVM


----------



## Bern2

chimney189 said:


> Good day everyone,
> I'm having a bit of an issue.
> Here's my current setup: I have the Schiit Loki connected to my Burson DA-160 (Burson Line Out to Loki Line Out) and then the Cavalli Liquid Carbon to the Burson DA-160.
> 
> ...


Shouldn't it be the Burson line out to Loki Line IN?


----------



## chimney189

Bern2 said:


> Shouldn't it be the Burson line out to Loki Line IN?



Yes, but I actually had to connect both the ins and outs of the Loki for it to work.


----------



## Bern2 (Jan 7, 2019)

chimney189 said:


> Yes, but I actually had to connect both the ins and outs of the Loki for it to work.


Burson line out to loki line in...loki line out to cavali line in?  Maybe you have the unit in backwards.

Also I don't understand why you had the Cavali feeding back to the Burson.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Yes, the Loki should go between the DAC and the AMP.

Source > DAC > EQ > AMP


----------



## chimney189

This is my first Schiit product .. they are built extremely well and are kinda cute


----------



## chimney189

Bern2 said:


> Burson line out to loki line in...loki line out to cavali line in?  Maybe you have the unit in backwards.
> 
> Also I don't understand why you had the Cavali feeding back to the Burson.



That was my mistake .. I realized that I have to connect the Cavalli to the Loki.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

chimney189 said:


> This is my first Schiit product .. they are built extremely well and are kinda cute


And sharp edges! 
And they heat up like little toasters.


----------



## chimney189

ScubaMan2017 said:


> And sharp edges!
> And they heat up like little toasters.



I've barely noticed any heat from the Loki, especially when compared to the Cavalli Liquid Carbon.. :O


----------



## ScubaMan2017

chimney189 said:


> I've barely noticed any heat from the Loki, especially when compared to the Cavalli Liquid Carbon.. :O


Heh. True. Some of us at Mr. Stoddard's channel were having the screaming meemies about warm devices. _Apparently these components are designed to run MUCH hotter. Cooling fins, tiny squirrel fans are unnecessary_.


----------



## timb5881

So I have been following this thread for while now, as of yet I have no Loki Mini.  But much to my amusement My step daughter brought over a 90's era vintage Kenwood Eq with 7 bands for each channel.  It is an active one, and I was wondering how much damage it would do to the signal to my Vali2.  Not much as I would have thought.  The last time I ever used an actual separate Eq device was back in the 70's when I had purchased a new Radio Shack passive eq.  That one was horrible, in that it caused all kinds of phase shifts on my spears, Large Advents.  So now I am even more curious as to much better the Loki would be.


----------



## Tuneslover

timb5881 said:


> So I have been following this thread for while now, as of yet I have no Loki Mini.  But much to my amusement My step daughter brought over a 90's era vintage Kenwood Eq with 7 bands for each channel.  It is an active one, and I was wondering how much damage it would do to the signal to my Vali2.  Not much as I would have thought.  The last time I ever used an actual separate Eq device was back in the 70's when I had purchased a new Radio Shack passive eq.  That one was horrible, in that it caused all kinds of phase shifts on my spears, Large Advents.  So now I am even more curious as to much better the Loki would be.



I had 2 pairs of Large Advents (set up as the "double" advent" system, stacked & connected in parallel, with the top speakers upside down so that all 4 tweeters were in the middle) along with a Soundcraftsman Equalizer.  The Soundcraftsman has been gone for many years but I ended up parting with all 4 Advents about 1 year ago.  Great speakers and from a sound perspective they stood the test of time admirably.


----------



## timb5881

Tuneslover said:


> I had 2 pairs of Large Advents (set up as the "double" advent" system, stacked & connected in parallel, with the top speakers upside down so that all 4 tweeters were in the middle) along with a Soundcraftsman Equalizer.  The Soundcraftsman has been gone for many years but I ended up parting with all 4 Advents about 1 year ago.  Great speakers and from a sound perspective they stood the test of time admirably.


I miss my Advents a bit.  Now I use mostly Infinity speakers of various vintages.


----------



## Nostoi

technobear said:


> It doesn't.
> 
> The Mojo has no analogue input so you can't use it as a headphone amp.
> 
> It does have an analogue output but this is the headphone output and I don't know if it is suitable to use as a line out. You might be able to use Mojo as the source. You would need to add a headphone amp to the mix.


Update: works very well with Chord Mojo using headphone output in conjunction with Fostex HP-V1 as headphone amp and the Loki in-between. Connected via RCA to 3.5mm cables.


----------



## Nostoi

I will be connecting the Loki Mini to the Fostex HP-A4BL, which has a balanced output. As I understand it, connecting the Loki to the Fostex means bypassing the headphone amp within the Fostex.  Does this mean that in order to benefit from the Fostex's balanced capabilities, one must use a headphone amp with a balanced output as part of the chain? Or is there another way around this using a non-balanced amp? Thanks.


----------



## Slim1970

Nostoi said:


> I will be connecting the Loki Mini to the Fostex HP-A4BL, which has a balanced output. As I understand it, connecting the Loki to the Fostex means bypassing the headphone amp within the Fostex.  Does this mean that in order to benefit from the Fostex's balanced capabilities, one must use a headphone amp with a balanced output as part of the chain? Or is there another way around this using a non-balanced amp? Thanks.


You wouldn't be bypassing the Fostex HP-A4BL at all. The Loki goes in between your DAC and amp. You'll still be able to fully enjoy the balanced output of your Fostex amp. The Loki only offers RCA connections so your setup wouldn't be fully balanced from front to back. This is the only downside of introducing the Loki into a balanced system.


----------



## Nostoi

Slim1970 said:


> You wouldn't be bypassing the Fostex HP-A4BL at all. The Loki goes in between your DAC and amp. You'll still be able to fully enjoy the balanced output of your Fostex amp. The Loki only offers RCA connections so your setup wouldn't be fully balanced from front to back. This is the only downside of introducing the Loki into a balanced system.


Does this mean there's no tenable way of setting up the Loki as part of a balanced system?


----------



## Slim1970

Nostoi said:


> Does this mean there's no tenable way of setting up the Loki as part of a balanced system?


Not a fully balanced one. If you have balanced DAC you will have use the RCA connections out of it to the Loki. Then RCA output of the Loki to the RCA input of your amp. The only balanced output you'd enjoy is that of your amp.


----------



## technobear

Nostoi said:


> Does this mean there's no tenable way of setting up the Loki as part of a balanced system?


The HP-A4BL is a DAC/amp. There is no separation between the DAC and the amp so you cannot connect Loki Mini.

The only way to use Loki Mini with this Fostex, is to use the RCA outputs and use an additional headphone amp. The additional amp could be a balanced one so long as it has single ended inputs. You might lose some of the benefit of the balanced circuitry in the Fostex but that depends on the internal design of the Fostex (which I don't know).


----------



## Nostoi

technobear said:


> The HP-A4BL is a DAC/amp. There is no separation between the DAC and the amp so you cannot connect Loki Mini.
> 
> The only way to use Loki Mini with this Fostex, is to use the RCA outputs and use an additional headphone amp. The additional amp could be a balanced one so long as it has single ended inputs. You might lose some of the benefit of the balanced circuitry in the Fostex but that depends on the internal design of the Fostex (which I don't know).


Yes this is how I was intending to use the Fostex and the Loki - via RCA cables. I have a Fostex tube amp which I can connect to the Loki to complete the chain; the question was whether adding a balanced headphone amp (with RCA) would preserve the balanced capacities of the HP-A4BL. Of course, I can still use the balanced output of the HP-A4BL, but the idea was to EQ my balanced headphones (such as the LCD2C, which benefit strongly from some EQ tweaks).


----------



## technobear

Nostoi said:


> the question was whether adding a balanced headphone amp (with RCA) would preserve the balanced capacities of the HP-A4BL.


No, it won't. You will be using the Fostex HP-4ABL as a single-ended DAC.


----------



## gr8soundz

Nostoi said:


> Does this mean there's no tenable way of setting up the Loki as part of a balanced system?



This works for me:
Little Bear MC3 3-in-1 passive preamp, switcher / selector, and SE to balanced converter
https://www.amazon.com/Nobsound-Balanced-Converter-Audio-Selector/dp/B07D7P7366

I use it with my SE ladder DAC into the RCA input and use the 2 XLR balanced outputs with both of my balanced amps. It works very well and (being passive) adds no noise plus the switching feature allows me to use multiple amps and speakers without recabling each time.


----------



## Nostoi

gr8soundz said:


> This works for me:
> Little Bear MC3 3-in-1 passive preamp, switcher / selector, and SE to balanced converter
> https://www.amazon.com/Nobsound-Balanced-Converter-Audio-Selector/dp/B07D7P7366
> 
> I use it with my SE ladder DAC into the RCA input and use the 2 XLR balanced outputs with both of my balanced amps. It works very well and (being passive) adds no noise plus the switching feature allows me to use multiple amps and speakers without recabling each time.


Great, thanks; I'll look into it - certainly very affordable.


----------



## Slim1970 (Jan 18, 2019)

gr8soundz said:


> This works for me:
> Little Bear MC3 3-in-1 passive preamp, switcher / selector, and SE to balanced converter
> https://www.amazon.com/Nobsound-Balanced-Converter-Audio-Selector/dp/B07D7P7366
> 
> I use it with my SE ladder DAC into the RCA input and use the 2 XLR balanced outputs with both of my balanced amps. It works very well and (being passive) adds no noise plus the switching feature allows me to use multiple amps and speakers without recabling each time.


That is a slick little device. I've been looking for a good switcher. Thanks for posting the link!


----------



## BubbaJay

I've had my Loki for about 2 weeks now and I absolutely love it.  I bought it originally to use with my LCD-2C but it sounds great with my Elear, HE-400i, and HD700.  I didn't know if 4 bands would be enough but it's plenty and makes EQ'ing so much easier.  I'd recommend this little gadget to anyone that use an EQ because it's much better than any digital EQ I've tried.


----------



## brad1138

I read threw the first 10 pages of this thread, and found all positive reviews, but can anyone say they noticed any degradation to the detail, level of reveal, imaging (etc)? I use speakers, not headphones. 

I am very interested in the Loki, to solve a somewhat timid bass "problem" in a setup I otherwise love. But not at the cost of the holographic imaging I have... (or anything else)


----------



## Slim1970 (Feb 27, 2019)

brad1138 said:


> I read threw the first 10 pages of this thread, and found all positive reviews, but can anyone say they noticed any degradation to the detail, level of reveal, imaging (etc)? I use speakers, not headphones.
> 
> I am very interested in the Loki, to solve a somewhat timid bass "problem" in a setup I otherwise love. But not at the cost of the holographic imaging I have... (or anything else)


The good thing about the Loki is that it is an analog device. So the artifacts that could be present from a digital eq is none existent. They really work like the tone controls on early model receivers and it works in the analog domain. I don’t hear any distortion when using mine


----------



## Yevgen Chupak

Another option is MiniDSP HD. If u are afraid about analog part of the Loki.


----------



## brad1138 (Feb 27, 2019)

Yevgen Chupak said:


> Another option is MiniDSP HD. If u are afraid about analog part of the Loki.



Actually, I am afraid of the digital part of the MiniDSP. This is an all analog system, when listening to records anyway.


----------



## jnak00

I use my Loki Mini with both headphones and speakers.  It's exceptionally transparent.  I don't think you'll lose anything by putting it in your system


----------



## ls13coco

Been thinking if pulling the trigger on the Loki Mini, but is there any indication of a Loki full-size coming?


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Slim1970 said:


> The good thing about the Loki is that it is an analog device. So the artifacts that could be present from a digital eq is none existent. They really work like the tone controls on early model receivers and it works in the analog domain. I don’t hear any distortion when using mine


Strictly FYI... Here's the chapter @Jason Stoddard Stoddart posted about the Loki....link.


jnak00 said:


> I use my Loki Mini with both headphones and speakers.  It's exceptionally transparent.  I don't think you'll lose anything by putting it in your system


...I've noticed that with my Loki. When the dials are set to 12 o'clock, there's no modification, even when powered down. It's, as @jnak00 says, transparent. From the manual: _"when Loki is turned off it is technically bypassed, but the unpowered input may cause distortion in some systems. Best to turn it on and switch to bypass the tone controls"_.


ls13coco said:


> Been thinking if pulling the trigger on the Loki Mini, but is there any indication of a Loki full-size coming?


I suspect it's in the *long-term* development pipeline. According to recent postings, the Loki Mini is a modest seller. I enjoy my Loki Mini... it's a fantastic way to tweak the end sound. Would you consider buying the Loki-Mini *now* and see if it's a good fit for you?


----------



## ScubaMan2017 (Feb 28, 2019)

...edit... I copied the following from Mr. Stoddard's thread (as of ~Feb. 28/19):

_Bigger Lokis? Maybe someday. It's not a super high priority, I'm afraid. I've figured out how to do a chassis that doesn't cost a fortune and allows us to do an affordable step-up Loki, which makes a more-bands or parametric version feasible. The crazy all-out, 4-figure, relay-stepped one is still on the back burner because it's pretty niche. Basically, 2019 is done for new product intros, and it doesn't have a Loki in it. Ask me again in 2020_.


----------



## ls13coco

ScubaMan2017 said:


> I suspect it's in the *long-term* development pipeline. According to recent postings, the Loki Mini is a modest seller. I enjoy my Loki Mini... it's a fantastic way to tweak the end sound. Would you consider buying the Loki-Mini *now* and see if it's a good fit for you?



Good to hear that, as I assumed. But yes, I'm most likely going to keep an eye out for a used Loki mini here. I do like playing with EQ a little and I would prefer to do in in the analogue domain, also my current has a great built-in EQ but it cannot be used in "direct mode" which I seem to need to use while using a different amp.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

I used a *library resource* to teach myself how to use the Loki Mini. It might help others...


----------



## ckhirnigs113

If anyone is looking to sell they’re Loki, please let me know! I’d like to try it with my Mod House Argon’s to tame the bass on certain tracks.


----------



## wje

I'm also interested in trying the Loki mini, but don't see them for sale too frequently in these parts. :O


----------



## ckhirnigs113

And when they do pop up, they sell really quickly!


----------



## djj65

With the low cost of a Loki, I just went ahead to buy one new. Very interesting unit to use, lets you do some tweaking and allows you to make any headphone worth listening to now.


----------



## Spareribs

Looks great, I like how it’s small and simple,


----------



## Zachik

Spareribs said:


> Looks great, *I like how it’s small *and simple,


Funny - several people complained it is not the same chassis as the mid-sized Lyr / Jot / Bimby...


----------



## Spareribs

Zachik said:


> Funny - several people complained it is not the same chassis as the mid-sized Lyr / Jot / Bimby...



I think in the old days, guys liked the idea of large complex equalizer units. I remember when I was in high school we had one in the house. Personally I didn’t like the big size and it was too complicated for me. I prefer simple and small


----------



## Zachik

Well, whatever other components you've got - would obviously determine which size is best for you...
Personally, I really dislike the tiny knobs of the Loki, and would rather have the bigger knobs like my Lyr's volume knob!


----------



## Tuneslover

djj65 said:


> With the low cost of a Loki, I just went ahead to buy one new. Very interesting unit to use, lets you do some tweaking and allows you to make any headphone worth listening to now.



Congratulations on your Loki purchase.  As I have stated before, this little inexpensive device makes ALL of your headphones listenable to your taste.  A much more logical way versus modding (sometimes irreversible) your headphones.


----------



## brad1138

wje said:


> I'm also interested in trying the Loki mini, but don't see them for sale too frequently in these parts. :O




https://www.schiit.com/products/loki


----------



## CaptainFantastic

brad1138 said:


> https://www.schiit.com/products/loki



And I can confirm that they successfully ship to Europe. Although allow some extra time and 10-15% cost for customs. Before ordering from the U.S., see if Schiit Europe has it in stock.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

...and in fact it is in stock right now - https://www.schiit-europe.com/index.php/producten/amps/loki-mini-high-quality-tone-control.html


----------



## wje

brad1138 said:


> https://www.schiit.com/products/loki



Thanks. What I meant was that they don't appear too often as a used device available for sale.  I'll proceed with purchasing on from the Schiit website as I'm in the U.S.


----------



## nicholars

Can anyone answer my question on the Loki, my main use for this would be to increase SUB bass on my headphones, where I cannot use software EQ, for example watching Netflix on headphones.

However, the bands are quite wide, but from what I have read, you can lower the band next to it, to overall make the effect less "stretched"... So can you answer me this question, is it possible to increase SUB bass around 10-70hz, without increasing the area of around 80-300hz too much? If using the 20hz knob, you can increase the bass, but also increasing mid bass a lot, but could you decrease the knob next to it (the 2nd knob), to give you the result of increase sub bass (10-70hz) with only a small increase in the mid bass area 70-300hz)? By increasing the first knob and lowering the 2nd knob?

Would this be possible? Or does increase the bass inevitably result in increasing the mid bass / lower midrange?


----------



## ScubaMan2017

nicholars said:


> Can anyone answer my question on the Loki, my main use for this would be to increase SUB bass on my headphones, where I cannot use software EQ, for example watching Netflix on headphones.....{snip}....By increasing the first knob and lowering the 2nd knob?
> 
> Would this be possible? Or does increase the bass inevitably result in increasing the mid bass / lower midrange?


This is out of my expertise -- I might have experienced that effect (or at least changed the perceived effect [I don't use any kind of scope... not that I'd know how to do that]). Your question appears detailed enough... an email to info@schiit.com might answer your nuanced question (I think they'll reply, _especially if you mention that you already tried this thread_).

*Fascinating question, @nicholars ! No schiit*.


----------



## wje

ckhirnigs113 said:


> If anyone is looking to sell they’re Loki, please let me know! I’d like to try it with my Mod House Argon’s to tame the bass on certain tracks.



There's one available for sale on our site here right now: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-schiit-loki-mini-equalizer.901404/

I actually overlooked this listing and ordered a new one from Schiit yesterday and it should arrive for me tomorrow.


----------



## ckhirnigs113

@wje Thanks for the heads-up! I snagged it! I'll report back after I receive it and try it with my Argon MK2 and HD58X.


----------



## wje

My Loki arrived from Schiit today.  I've been playing with it for the past few hours.  I do realize that there are many other much more capable products out there available - e.g. software parametric EQs that can cover many more frequencies, etc.  However, for the moment, the Loki is great to be able to apply a few simple adjustments via physical controls when a different song our artist starts playing that you want to apply a slight correction to.

The reality is though, the Loki won't polish a turd.  I was trying out some old jazz recordings from the late 50s / early 60s and the limitations in their recording equipment at the time really can't be improved too much - even through equalization.  Though, on more recently recorded music, a very small adjustment on the Loki can apply a nice touch to the music you are enjoying with your favorite set of headphones on.


----------



## wje

Dang nabbit. I've enjoyed my new Loki over the past 24 hours - used the buttons to adjust the tone on a few songs.  All seemed well.  This morning, I noticed a very slight hum that can be heard between song selections. I've checked my cables, etc. - even swapped cables and can't seem to isolate or eliminate the hum.


----------



## Slim1970

wje said:


> Dang nabbit. I've enjoyed my new Loki over the past 24 hours - used the buttons to adjust the tone on a few songs.  All seemed well.  This morning, I noticed a very slight hum that can be heard between song selections. I've checked my cables, etc. - even swapped cables and can't seem to isolate or eliminate the hum.


I hear some hum as well but it disappears when the music starts playing. I’m not sure where it’s coming from. I’m thinking about getting the iFi nano iGalvanic3.0 to put in the chain or possibly an iPurifier.


----------



## wje

Slim1970 said:


> I hear some hum as well but it disappears when the music starts playing. I’m not sure where it’s coming from. I’m thinking about getting the iFi nano iGalvanic3.0 to put in the chain or possibly an iPurifier.



Ironically, I passed on using software EQs that would integrate with WinAmp or Foobar because many of them wouldn't adjust frequencies below 63 Hz.  However, after I got the Loki, I stumbled upon Peace and using the equalizer APOs and I can tweak the lowest frequencies now too.  I moved on the Loki as I could get down and adjust at the 20 Hz. level.

I'll try some more fiddling, then give Schiit a holler if need be.


----------



## Slim1970

wje said:


> Ironically, I passed on using software EQs that would integrate with WinAmp or Foobar because many of them wouldn't adjust frequencies below 63 Hz.  However, after I got the Loki, I stumbled upon Peace and using the equalizer APOs and I can tweak the lowest frequencies now too.  I moved on the Loki as I could get down and adjust at the 20 Hz. level.
> 
> I'll try some more fiddling, then give Schiit a holler if need be.


Nice, Foobar has a great EQ. I use it all the time. The Loki is great when I’m using my iPad. It’s so convenient and it does wonders in getting the desired sound I like out my headphones. I guess both digital and analog EQ’s have there place in Head-Fi.


----------



## wje

OK, I've been trying some different configurations.  

When I noticed the noise between tracks, I was utilizing the following:

*USB -> Schiit Fulla 2 (DAC) -> Loki -> LCX amplifier -> Balanced output*

Now, with the following, it's hard for me to detect any noise between tracks:

*USB -> SDAC (DAC) -> Loki -> Magni 3 amplifier -> SET output*​​I'll keep trying some other combos and see how they fare.​


----------



## Slim1970

wje said:


> OK, I've been trying some different configurations.
> 
> When I noticed the noise between tracks, I was utilizing the following:
> 
> ...


Interesting, do you think it could be some impedance mismatching in the first setup?


----------



## wje

Slim1970 said:


> Interesting, do you think it could be some impedance mismatching in the first setup?



That seems to be quite the possibility.  I've started swapping components and cables, but have been unable to recreate the hum.  Then again, I have a few more combinations that I still need to try.  Here's the current state of affairs - the DACs can't be seen as they're a bit more towards the left and on top of my computer tower.


----------



## Slim1970

wje said:


> That seems to be quite the possibility.  I've started swapping components and cables, but have been unable to recreate the hum.  Then again, I have a few more combinations that I still need to try.  Here's the current state of affairs - the DACs can't be seen as they're a bit more towards the left and on top of my computer tower.


Nice setup. I'll start disconnecting my components one by one to see if can detect the hum in my setup. But I think it might be coming from the HE-Adapter I'm using with the Burson Bang. I love the how the Bang drives my HD650's. I use the Loki to add in some subbass and treble. It's the best I've heard the HD650's sound.


----------



## wje

Slim1970 said:


> Nice setup. I'll start disconnecting my components one by one to see if can detect the hum in my setup. But I think it might be coming from the HE-Adapter I'm using with the Burson Bang. I love the how the Bang drives my HD650's. I use the Loki to add in some subbass and treble. It's the best I've heard the HD650's sound.



Oh, so you're using the HE adapter from Hifiman that was designed to work with speaker outputs on an amplifier, correct?  I had one in the past, but it had a few "bugs" that frustrated me.  Instead, I've always opted for speaker "taps" and utilizing resistors, if need be.  I built a diagram for the forum about 6 years ago, but it still applies today.  You can usually build a set of these for $20 - $25.


----------



## wje

I haven't been able to recreate the "hum" that I was experiencing when I initially installed and utilized my Loki.  My only guess at this point is that it was one of my RCA interconnects causing the issue.  Glad it wasn't the Loki - I really enjoy this piece of gear.  It's great to apply a small tweak to overcome a shortcoming in a headphone, as opposed to selling the headphones and trying another brand or model.


----------



## Tuneslover

wje said:


> I haven't been able to recreate the "hum" that I was experiencing when I initially installed and utilized my Loki.  My only guess at this point is that it was one of my RCA interconnects causing the issue.  Glad it wasn't the Loki - I really enjoy this piece of gear.  It's great to apply a small tweak to overcome a shortcoming in a headphone, as opposed to selling the headphones and trying another brand or model.



That's exactly my philosophy too.


----------



## renault4

Just took delivery of a Loki along with Blue Jeans cables. As a former FBI director once said, "Lordy!" its tiny when compared to my Bifrost and Valhalla2. But it already looks at home with its big cousins


----------



## renault4

renault4 said:


> Just took delivery of a Loki along with Blue Jeans cables. As a former FBI director once said, "Lordy!" its tiny when compared to my Bifrost and Valhalla2. But it already looks at home with its big cousins



here's a go ar showing the relative sizes...


----------



## ScubaMan2017

renault4 said:


> here's a go ar showing the relative sizes...


Nice and neat cable layout. It's suspiciously clear of cat/dog/iguana fur. _Nice (I'm envious)_.


----------



## Shane D

My Loki shipped today. Very curious about playing with this.

Shane D


----------



## Shane D

I bought a Loki and it is shipped today. It will take a while to reach me in Canada, but that's OK.

Shane D


----------



## Slim1970

Shane D said:


> My Loki shipped today. Very curious about playing with this.
> 
> Shane D


It's one of the best tweaks I made to my system


----------



## Shane D

Slim1970 said:


> It's one of the best tweaks I made to my system



That makes a lot of sense. We all hear differently, we all may like different sounds and most of us own different headphones. I could certainly see different adjustments for open VS closed to start.

Shane D


----------



## Slim1970

Shane D said:


> That makes a lot of sense. We all hear differently, we all may like different sounds and most of us own different headphones. I could certainly see different adjustments for open VS closed to start.
> 
> Shane D


Just having the option to add a little more subbass, a little treble, and bring up the mids is a win for me depending on what headphone I'm using. Other headphones don't need any adjustments and the Loki let's you bypass the tone controls. It really is a slick little device.


----------



## Shane D

quimbo said:


> Here is my work setup, purchased 2 racks here - *https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HIF...e-rack-transparent-equipment/32788148827.html*
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/magni-3-impressions.860812/page-81#post-13956309
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/magni-3-impressions.860812/page-96#post-14052343



I know this is an old post, but that acrylic stand looks Awesome!

Shane D


----------



## Shane D

Nitreb said:


> You might consider this similar product:
> https://www.jdslabs.com/products/187/subjective3-equalizer/



If I had seen this first, I would have ordered this instead. Live and learn.

Shane D


----------



## Yevgen Chupak

Shane D said:


> My Loki shipped today. Very curious about playing with this.
> 
> Shane D


Loki is better... twice better...


----------



## Shane D

Yevgen Chupak said:


> Loki is better... twice better...



I hope your right. I am just reading through this thread now and I see that JDS has one and it's 33% cheaper. Had I known...

Shane D


----------



## Yevgen Chupak

Shane D said:


> My Loki shipped today. Very curious about playing with this.
> 
> Shane D




Check this...


----------



## Shane D (May 25, 2019)

Yevgen Chupak said:


> Check this...




Well, this is weird! I watched this video in the last couple of weeks while researching the Loki. And yet I didn't recall the JDS unit? Have I become such a Zeos fan that I dismiss products that he doesn't like?

He picks the Loki because it has has less power (dbs) and is therefore easier to use. And is it two bass switches or two midrange switches?

Had I dug deeper, I think I would have bought the JDS.

Not a big deal, but I think if you were a bass head the JDS would have more appeal.

I still look forward to my new toy.

Shane D


----------



## Bern2

Shane D said:


> Well, this is weird! I watched this video in the last couple of weeks while researching the Loki. And yet I didn't recall the JDS unit? Have I become such a Zeos fan that I dismiss products that he doesn't like?
> 
> He picks the Loki because it has has less power (dbs) and is therefore easier to use. And is it two bass switches or two midrange switches?
> 
> ...


Actually think you'll like the Loki...here's the JDS freq response curves.
https://jdslabs.com/media/support/downloads/active-products/2019-02-07.17-52-20.ol-eq-curves.pdf


----------



## Shane D

Bern2 said:


> Actually think you'll like the Loki...here's the JDS freq response curves.
> https://jdslabs.com/media/support/downloads/active-products/2019-02-07.17-52-20.ol-eq-curves.pdf



I think it will be interesting, although it is not going to work like I had planned, apparently.
I was going to run it between my DAP and my amps, but I guess that won't work. I don't have a DAC yet as I am waiting on my OTG cable ( shipped May 8th).

I guess I will have to run it between one amp (pre-amp) into the other amp for now.

I use my headphone out to feed my amps but I guess that won't work with the Loki as someone mentioned that it needs a line out.

Still pretty excited.

Shane D


----------



## ahmedie

If I buy 2 lokis and wire xlr left to one of them and xlr right to another one , same thing for output 

Can this make proper balanced connection ?


----------



## Shane D

What a cool tool! Just playing with it today. I always felt my Grado's could use a bass boost.

My system is now complete:



 
Shane D


----------



## Shane D (Jul 3, 2019)

I am Really impressed with this product! I have been using it for several days in a chain consisting of: Sony DAP>SMSL DAC>Loki
>Burson amp>Grado 'phones.

Truly makes my Grado's perfect. They so needed that bass. I have the bass switch maxed but the sound is not boomy as it would be in my DAP settings.
My best purchase in a while and I heartily recommend this to anyone.

I want to start playing with the Beyer's soon, but these sound SO good. I really have to do something with the knobs to make the settings more visible.



Shane D


----------



## Bern2

Shane D said:


> I am Really impressed with this product! I have been using it for several days in a chain consisting of: Sony DAP>SMSL DAC>Loxjie>Burson amp>Grado 'phones.
> 
> Truly makes my Grado's perfect. They so needed that bass. I have the bass switch maxed but the sound is not boomy as it would be in my DAP settings.
> My best purchase in a while and I heartily recommend this to anyone.
> ...


They did a nice job with the "Q" factor imo.  You can push 20hz without it becoming mud.  

Bern


----------



## Slim1970

Shane D said:


> I am Really impressed with this product! I have been using it for several days in a chain consisting of: Sony DAP>SMSL DAC>Loki
> >Burson amp>Grado 'phones.
> 
> Truly makes my Grado's perfect. They so needed that bass. I have the bass switch maxed but the sound is not boomy as it would be in my DAP settings.
> ...


Yep, it’s the simplicity of the Loki that makes it great. Not only that it doesn’t murk up the sound.


----------



## Shane D

Nice to buy something that works even better than you had hoped and didn't break the bank. I have SEVERAL items to get rid of that I thought would be good purchases, but I have been very disappointed in. Nice to get a winner once in a while.


Shane D


----------



## Tuneslover

Shane D said:


> I am Really impressed with this product! I have been using it for several days in a chain consisting of: Sony DAP>SMSL DAC>Loki
> >Burson amp>Grado 'phones.
> 
> Truly makes my Grado's perfect. They so needed that bass. I have the bass switch maxed but the sound is not boomy as it would be in my DAP settings.
> ...



Another happy customer has discovered this wonderful Loki!


----------



## arielext

just here to report Stax love loki.
L500 + loki are so lovely
007mk2 + loki ... ah forget it I normally turn off the loki while using the 007s
Now how about a balanced loki? ... a loki max ... a 12 band balanced loki uber ... a boy is allowed to dream, right?


----------



## VRacer-111

Agree... Loki + STAX = Verrrry nice...even from a Koss ESP95X energizer:







The Gustard X20U does help things out...


----------



## treecloud

I haven't kept up with this thread, but I put my Loki into my 2 channel speaker rig recently and I must say I've never had such good bass from a "speakers in a room" system. My 15" Dayton DIY subs are in 3 cu ft sealed boxes and need EQ on the bottom. The Loki did a better job "getting it right" than any other EQ I've used. That did surprise me a bit, and made me a happy camper.

Of course that's one of the reasons we like headphone listening, no room problems to contend with, no subs. But when you get a room system right (ok it's more work), it's pretty extraordinary, and yes I prefer it to headphone listening overall, but I love that too.

Some pages back there was some discussion about the Loki possibly being inspired by the venerable Cello Palette:
https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/tas-legacy-cello-palette-equalizer-preamplifier/
discontinued, but still holds the honor of being the most expensive EQ ever, and arguably the best sounding also. One of the main reasons it sounds so good is unlike complex EQs the Palette is simple in design and operation, as a result It's hard to mess up the sound of music with it. The more bands of EQ there are the easier it is to "get it wrong". The Palette's designer Dick Burwin gets special mention for knowing exactly what's needed in an EQ unit. http://www.burwenaudio.com/Biography.html 

As a result the Palette continues to be used and cherished by some of the best mastering engineers in the business.  Mike Moffit has mentioned somewhere he had one in his personal system for a time and was impressed with it. Could that have something to do with the birth of Loki? 

Many in this thread would like to see more bands of EQ, maybe 6 like the Palette, in a larger Bifrost sized case, and these suggestions are completely understandable. And Schiit did name it "Mini" right? That leaves room for a max version, but I'm not sure a more useful EQ could actually be realized in practice.


----------



## chimney189

Has anyone tried the Loki with the TH-900? I'm hoping that it'd be able to tame the treble while still sounding clear?


----------



## Yevgen Chupak

chimney189 said:


> Has anyone tried the Loki with the TH-900? I'm hoping that it'd be able to tame the treble while still sounding clear?


I have MK II.

My biggest concern is not treble but lack of mids... so my settings on loki is
1. - do not touch
2. - slight +
3. big +
4. slight -


----------



## exdmd

treecloud said:


> I haven't kept up with this thread, but I put my Loki into my 2 channel speaker rig recently and I must say I've never had such good bass from a "speakers in a room" system. My 15" Dayton DIY subs are in 3 cu ft sealed boxes and need EQ on the bottom. The Loki did a better job "getting it right" than any other EQ I've used. That did surprise me a bit, and made me a happy camper.
> 
> Of course that's one of the reasons we like headphone listening, no room problems to contend with, no subs. But when you get a room system right (ok it's more work), it's pretty extraordinary, and yes I prefer it to headphone listening overall, but I love that too.
> 
> ...



There is *really* a need for a reasonably priced balanced Loki with XLR in and out. I bet that happens before more bands are added to the Loki Mini. We'll see.


----------



## Deaj

I would be interested in a larger six band Loki in a Jotunheim size enclosure. I'd have to pass on any such product larger than this due to a lack of available space but I'd jump on a Loki as described above.


----------



## Mike Foley

I’ve had Loki for just over a week, and I’m very impressed with it. I’m using it in my speaker system, and it’s great for taming those discs that have been mastered a bit ‘hot’, many of them remasters of 70s and 80s Rock.
I’ve tried it with my crappy cheapo Chinese valve headphone amp and it makes that listenable until I get around to buying a Magni, or another quality headamp.


----------



## Shane D

Mike Foley said:


> I’ve had Loki for just over a week, and I’m very impressed with it. I’m using it in my speaker system, and it’s great for taming those discs that have been mastered a bit ‘hot’, many of them remasters of 70s and 80s Rock.
> I’ve tried it with my crappy cheapo Chinese valve headphone amp and it makes that listenable until I get around to buying a Magni, or another quality headamp.



Every music lover should have one of these, although of course audiophiles won't because it changes the original sound. I LOVE mine. I just use it for headphones. It gave my Grado's the bass they have been craving forever and still sounds crystal clear. I have also used it with my Beyerdynamic's. The swiss army knife of sound.

Shane D


----------



## Mike Foley

I guess I’m an audiophile, insomuch as I love music, and want to hear the most from my music collection. I was resolutely anti-eq and tone controls, as quite frankly most of them were Schiit, although the controls on my old Quad 77 pre worked pretty well. 
This Loki is something else, it lets me make poor masters sound better, and has really made a difference to low quality sources like DAB radio. On much of my music collection I don’t need it, but it’s great to have it there for when it is needed.


----------



## Shane D

I love music, but I am not an audiophile. I don't care about about neutrality, transparency, etc. I want to hear what I like. And the Loki is perfect for that. No headphone is perfect and every set could use at least a little tweak. This is the only item in my system that I can truly say will never be sold. Many Amps and 'phones have come and gone over the last four years and no collection is ever finished, but the Loki will not be a variable. I might even buy a second one if they put out a balanced version.

Shane D


----------



## jnak00

I've come to the conclusion that most of our gear is not 100% neutral anyway, so a little EQ to make things sound better to my ear is OK.  I nearly sold mine but I'm glad I didn't.


----------



## Zachik

Shane D said:


> I love music, but *I am not an audiophile*. I don't care about about neutrality, transparency, etc. I want to hear what I like. And the Loki is perfect for that. No headphone is perfect and every set could use at least a little tweak. This is the only item in my system that I can truly say will never be sold. Many Amps and 'phones have come and gone over the last four years and no collection is ever finished, but the Loki will not be a variable. I might even buy a second one if they put out a balanced version.
> 
> Shane D


Shhhhhh....... Be quiet - you'll get yourself banned for life!!


----------



## Shane D

Zachik said:


> Shhhhhh....... Be quiet - you'll get yourself banned for life!!



I think they have all written me off when I said I didn't like the HD6XX's.

Shane D


----------



## Zachik

Shane D said:


> I think they have all written me off when I said I didn't like the HD6XX's.
> 
> Shane D


I guess you have 2 strikes, then... dude, you're walking a very thin line!


----------



## Shane D

Zachik said:


> I guess you have 2 strikes, then... dude, you're walking a very thin line!



Story of my life...

Shane D


----------



## Slim1970

I just bought my second one to insert into my main headphone rig. I can't imagine listening to my headphones without it.


----------



## Gazny

That is a very good idea, I personally think the hd6xx is a little bass heavy for me, a little too much pressure for me, maybe I can finally tone the bass done with one of these.


----------



## jnak00

Gazny said:


> That is a very good idea, I personally think the hd6xx is a little bass heavy for me, a little too much pressure for me, maybe I can finally tone the bass done with one of these.



Too funny.  I use my Loki to bump up the bass a little on my HD6XX.  Exactly what the Loki is for, tweak the sound to your own enjoyment


----------



## Tuneslover (Jul 30, 2019)

Mike Foley said:


> I guess I’m an audiophile, insomuch as I love music, and want to hear the most from my music collection. I was resolutely anti-eq and tone controls, as quite frankly most of them were Schiit, although the controls on my old Quad 77 pre worked pretty well.
> This Loki is something else, it lets me make poor masters sound better, and has really made a difference to low quality sources like DAB radio. On much of my music collection I don’t need it, but it’s great to have it there for when it is needed.



Precisely!

I chuckle that so many people are modding the original design of headphones in order to alter or "improve" the sound.  For the most part the Loki achieves much of that to most people's satisfaction.  With a Loki you don't have to un-mod your headphone in order to hear it's original sound, simply switch the Loki to by-pass.

The best part of all, the Loki works on all headphones.


----------



## billbishere

I just ordered me a Loki!  Does anyone have any experience with the refurbished units on Amazon?  They are sold by Schitt.  Looks legit, I am sure it will be good.  I am stoked!


----------



## MrPanda

I love my Loki...


----------



## CaptainFantastic

billbishere said:


> I just ordered me a Loki!  Does anyone have any experience with the refurbished units on Amazon?  They are sold by Schitt.  Looks legit, I am sure it will be good.  I am stoked!



I bought my unit 2nd hand here on Head-Fi from someone who was selling the entire Schiit stack. It looks like new except the four buttons are not exactly centered in their holes, meaning there is more of a gap on one side than the other of each dial. Is this common to all Loki units?


----------



## Shane D

MrPanda said:


> I love my Loki...



Ditto.


Shane D


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

i agree with some a bigger unit would be awesome i use two loki's at the moment. i got lucky with one the knobs are dead perfect the other has a couple off center a bit


----------



## billbishere

I will expect my Loki to have some character to it from the sounds of it.  Which is expected of schitt products actually.


----------



## Shane D

Th3Drizzl3 said:


> i agree with some a bigger unit would be awesome i use two loki's at the moment. i got lucky with one the knobs are dead perfect the other has a couple off center a bit



I don't need bigger, but would love a balanced one.

Shane D


----------



## JamminVMI

CaptainFantastic said:


> I bought my unit 2nd hand here on Head-Fi from someone who was selling the entire Schiit stack. It looks like new except the four buttons are not exactly centered in their holes, meaning there is more of a gap on one side than the other of each dial. Is this common to all Loki units?


Some more than others...


----------



## billbishere

I got mine yesterday and it's perfect.  No gaps.  No wonky knobs.  It's perfect.  I'm fact it came as new even tho it was refurb.  I got a good price on it too.  About to hook it up now.


----------



## technobear

CaptainFantastic said:


> I bought my unit 2nd hand here on Head-Fi from someone who was selling the entire Schiit stack. It looks like new except the four buttons are not exactly centered in their holes, meaning there is more of a gap on one side than the other of each dial. Is this common to all Loki units?


What you have there is the special edtion '_Loki Mini FA_'*






* Friday Afternoon


----------



## CaptainFantastic

technobear said:


> What you have there is the special edtion '_Loki Mini FA_'*
> 
> * Friday Afternoon



Funny. Here are the photos. After taking these I opened the 4 top screws and took a look. Turns out I can re-position the silver top slightly (when putting the screws back on) to get the dials to be centered, but then it would hang 1/2 a mm to one side. So I guess it is just that the way this unit came out. Otherwise it is perfect. By the way, has anyone else noticed that there is a tiny 1/2 mm (again) gap horizontally in the lower part of the unit where the silver cover meets the bottom case? This must be for cooling?


----------



## billbishere

CaptainFantastic said:


> Funny. Here are the photos. After taking these I opened the 4 top screws and took a look. Turns out I can re-position the silver top slightly (when putting the screws back on) to get the dials to be centered, but then it would hang 1/2 a mm to one side. So I guess it is just that the way this unit came out. Otherwise it is perfect. By the way, has anyone else noticed that there is a tiny 1/2 mm (again) gap horizontally in the lower part of the unit where the silver cover meets the bottom case? This must be for cooling?



almost looks like the case is install a little off of where it should be, that is odd.  I am sure it doesn't hurt anything tho


I have had such good luck with refurb electronics. Mine even came with a seal from Schitt.  In fact I think it's better to get refurb stuff if it's from the company who made the product because then you know a person that works for them is touching it and having some one on one time with it before you purchase.  Otherwise when you get it new it may just come off of a production line and boxed up and never looked at on a per unit basis.


----------



## jnak00

I've developed a hum from the Loki.  If the Loki is on, there is hum coming from my speakers.  If I turn the bypass switch on the front of the Loki off, or power the Loki off, then the hum stops.  I've checked all my components and the Loki is the only one that does it, even if it's the only thing connected.  I've got my Loki, Mimby. and Mani all powered by a Cthulu.  Any thoughts on how I can eliminate the hum?  Trying a different power source isn't ideal, since I have limited space and everything is plugged in to the same socket.


----------



## billbishere

jnak00 said:


> I've developed a hum from the Loki.  If the Loki is on, there is hum coming from my speakers.  If I turn the bypass switch on the front of the Loki off, or power the Loki off, then the hum stops.  I've checked all my components and the Loki is the only one that does it, even if it's the only thing connected.  I've got my Loki, Mimby. and Mani all powered by a Cthulu.  Any thoughts on how I can eliminate the hum?  Trying a different power source isn't ideal, since I have limited space and everything is plugged in to the same socket.



If you can't change the power situation I would consider trying / changing the RCA cables and see if it makes a difference.  If they are older the shielding may not be holding up, or maybe something else is getting older and the shielding isn't stopping the interfereace anymore.  Could be many things but, changing RCA's in and out would be a good place to look. 

I use a 1,500 VA Cyber Power sinewave UPS to power my audio gear - it has a built in AVR.  Without a device specially designed to "clean" the power, I find a UPS to be a nice solution and noise free in my experience.


----------



## jnak00

I just tried switching the power cables used for the Loki and the Mani, and that fixed it.  The Mani still hums a bit but it's way lower in volume.


----------



## billbishere

well, at least you found your culprit.  i am sure it's the same interference it's just the Mani it isn't as audible or transparent as the Loki since .  Very little circuity in the Loki that it has to go through.  

Looks like the Mani is known to have a hum - at least looking at Amazon reviews.  I dont do records so, I don't know a lot about it.


----------



## turbomustang84

Shane D said:


> I don't need bigger, but would love a balanced one.
> 
> Shane D


A balanced option would be great


----------



## GenEricOne

Loki is now available in black. Anyone pick one up yet?

https://www.schiit.com/products/loki


----------



## Shane D

GenEricOne said:


> Loki is now available in black. Anyone pick one up yet?
> 
> https://www.schiit.com/products/loki



That's kind of cool. I like the silver, but choice is nice.

Shane D


----------



## wje

I like and still use my Loki quite frequently.  However, for my main music system, I've added in the Mini DSP 2x4 HD module.  It sits between the pre-amp and my amplifier.  It has 2 RCA inputs, and 4 RCA outputs that can be configured.  I've set 2 of the outputs to direct to my SVS SB-2000 subwoofers, and the other 2 outputs to my amplifier.  It allows you to adjust the crossover points (24dB, 12,dB slope, etc.) as well as assign several parametric IQ settings.  The device is just $208 from most vendors and includes a 12V adapter.  You perform the initial setup of the Mini DSP with your computer, then save the settings to the Mini DSP box and the computer is no longer required.  There's a lesser cost option - the 2x4, but not the HD model and it doesn't include the power adapter, so I believe there would be a few issues with keeping those configurations saved without keeping your laptop connected.  The lesser cost option is about $110.  The lesser cost 2x4 unit is adjustable with .9v and 2v output voltage on the RCA connectors.  The 2x4 HD is set to 2V, by default, but can be changed via a jumper adjustment (inside the box) for a 4V pre-out to the RCA outputs, if desired.


----------



## cel4145

Does anyone know what the bass tone control on the Loki actually does?

The Loki specs are
Bands: 20Hz, 400Hz, 2kHz, 8kHz
Adjustment: +/-12dB at 20Hz and 8kHz, +/-6dB at 400Hz and 2kHz

It doesn't make sense that the bass tone is centered at 20hz, so this doesn't provide any useful information. I contacted Schiit to see if they had any frequency response graphs of the tone effects, like JDS Labs has for the Subjective 3






Schiit customer support just quoted the specs back at me.

Perhaps someone knows where the tone control is centered and what slope it has?

Sorry if this question has already been answered. I did skim through the first half of this discussion thread, but didn't see any relevant information.


----------



## billbishere (Dec 16, 2019)

cel4145 said:


> Does anyone know what the bass tone control on the Loki actually does?
> 
> The Loki specs are
> Bands: 20Hz, 400Hz, 2kHz, 8kHz
> ...



The position of the knob:

Full clockwise
Quarter turn clockwise
Eighth turn clockwise
Center
Full counter clockwise
Eighth turn counter clockwise
Full counter clockwise




Bass



Treble



Lower Mid Knob



Upper Mid Knob


----------



## cel4145

billbishere said:


> The position of the knob:
> 
> Full clockwise
> Quarter turn clockwise
> ...



Thanks! So what is the bass tone control doing below 20hz? Or is there some kind of low pass filter to keep it from boosting too far down?


----------



## GuyM82 (Dec 19, 2019)

Bonjour,

Que fait le contrôle de tonalité en dessous de 20 Hz  ?  Pas grand chose ...
Je pense que seul le tuyau 32 '  d'un orgue descend aux environs de 16 Hz. Mais l'oreille humaine n'entend quasiment plus rien en dessous de 20 Hz.
Au-dessous de cette fréquence il ne subsiste plus que des infrasons que certains peuvent néanmoins ressentir mais à la condition d'avoir un niveau de volume musical très élevé.

Guytou


----------



## Bern2

GuyM82 said:


> Bonjour,
> 
> Que fait le contrôle de tonalité en dessous de 20 Hz  ?  Pas grand chose ...
> Je pense que seul le tuyau 32 '  d'un orgue descend aux environs de 16 Hz. Mais l'oreille humaine n'entend quasiment plus rien en dessous de 20 Hz.
> ...


Xlating for those that are French illiterate...(like me mostly).

Hello,

What does the tone control do below 20 Hz? Not much ...
I think that only the 32 'pipe of an organ goes down to around 16 Hz. But the human ear can hardly hear anything below 20 Hz.
Below this frequency there remains only infrasound that some may nevertheless feel but on the condition of having a very high level of musical volume.


----------



## GuyM82 (Dec 25, 2019)

Désolé, je ne le referai plus ... :clin d'œil:

Guytou


----------



## mab1376 (Dec 30, 2019)

I got one of these for Christmas and it's a godsend for live tapings of concerts, bumping the mid-range makes it seem like a live album somewhat.

e.g. 

https://archive.org/details/ween2018-12-15.cd2go


----------



## florence

If someone gets Loki to use with 007mk2 + mjölnir kgsshv, would it be wasting money or does it reveal anything better?


----------



## JTori (Jan 21, 2020)

I'm a latecomer to this thread, but here are my impressions after having the Loki in my system for four days.

First, a few system particulars:

Synology NAS > Ethernet > iMac Pro > Audirvana 3.5 > Benchmark DAC3-DX > Loki Mini > High-Quality DIY Switchbox > Bottlehead Mainline or Bottlehead Crack/Speedball or Teddy Pardo PS + Koss ESP-950 > Focal Clear or HD800S or ZMF Auteur or Beyerdynamic T5P2 or HD600

Impressions:

After considerable research, I decided to buy the Loki.  While I couldn't find any negative reviews, I was skeptical about adding a component (especially a budget-priced one) to my signal chain.  Turns out my concerns were unfounded.  The Loki, while small, is a nicely spec'ed device.  It's dead quiet and transparent.  To verify this, I A-B'ed it in and out of my chain using my switch box and Mainline amp.  I could detect no difference in sound quality.

When in EQ mode (not bypassed), it does exactly what I wanted it to.  I had planned to use it only in the signal path to my ESP-950s, however, in the last couple of days I hitched it up to enable EQ'ing all the aforementioned amps.  The bands are well chosen, and it's extremely helpful to be able to add just a bit of boost to low and lower-mid frequencies (especially on the Koss').  On the Crack, I'm dialing back the 20Hz band ever so slightly or boosting it a bit (on all amps) when listening at very low volumes (like when I'm writing).

Overall, I'm very pleased with the purchase.  I can see no downsides to the component, except for maybe the cheap wall wart, which I induced ever so slight a hum to my Mainline, even though it was plugged into an Audio Power Power Pack II.  Once, I plugged it into a different isolator, all was golden.

So, bottom line:  A nicely designed and implemented piece of kit.  Does exactly what I need it to do without any introducing any nasties.  Highly recommended .... especially at $149.

BTW, for reference, here are a few pics of my desktop equipment as it stands today:



 



 



 

Best,

Joe.


----------



## Shane D

For those considering a Loki, there are B units on the Schiit website for $129.00.

Shane D


----------



## Outaphase (Mar 2, 2020)

Just got it.  There's that moment when you first fire things up and wonder "did I waste my money?"  Heck NO!

At first, I couldn't get any of the 4 presets to work.  No matter how hard I pushed, I couldn't get the "smoky jazz club" to function. 

(That's a joke lurkers!)

Seriously, I was ecstatic that there seemed to be no sonic-penalty for using it.  In other words, it just did it's job without any gotcha's to be heard.  All I want to listen to is the first-mile source, and last-mile cans, with nothing in between.  The Heresy amp and Loki combo help me achieve that. (other than the Loki doing what it's supposed to do with EQ).  If there is a problem, I'm going to concentrate on the first and last mile of my chain.

Other than sweetening or deemphasizing trouble spots or merely adjusting for personal taste, I see the Loki as kind of a tool as well as "audiophile insurance", especially if one is going solely by forum impressions without any possibility of trying things in person.

1) You just spent $3K blindly online, and uh-oh - yeah, too bright.  Or too dark.  Boring.  The LOKI eq is your insurance.

2) With the bypass, you can congratulate yourself on totally nailing it perfectly, not needing any eq.

3) Bring a little more sanity to V-shaped cans, or just give them a taste of what you really want and help you better decide in the future.

I love the "shape" of how the controls work.  Discussed earlier.  At this stage, 4 controls is just fine for me.

But to be sure, it won't drastically alter the overall character of the cans - that is, it tamed my bass-punch AKG K240's into something much more musical, but despite hitting it with sub-bass - it just won't sprinkle sonic-dust on the drivers to turn them into an EDM-party set of cans which the drivers just weren't designed to handle loudly.  But it did give them a taste.  Sure, I tried to turn the 240's into my K712's, and got close, but at some point, FR alone won't change the character of the other variables.  Cool.

Overall, I think the Loki is a "you can't lose" proposition.  Maybe it will fix a problem area.  Or just confirm what you already know.  Or perhaps make a self-discovery about bright/dark/boring environment that turns you on to make a better decision with your next pair.

Sanity-check:  The only thing I did to it out of the box and powered on, was run the nice Alps pots through a sanity check - merely doing a full rotation back and forth a few times.  No problems.

The biggest thing is that I don't want to hear that Schiit - other than the eq job it was supposed to do cleanly.  Just first and last mile in my chain.  Yeah, I've got the biggest Cheshire-cat grin going on.


----------



## Outaphase (Mar 3, 2020)

For you sharp-eyed lurkers:

You'll notice my location is very near Schiit - but I'm so busy that I'll be like those who live in NYC, and have never visited the Empire State Bldg.

I've never been the the bat-cave, or whatever it is, although I have passed by a few times.  I get my stuff with my own cash, and even choose Amazon to do so.  Yeah, I need some socks, electrical tape, oh yeah - toss in that EQ, box of pens.  Sealed factory tape is reassuring.

Although I'm close, I might as well be 3000 miles away.  Heck - they might as well be in Omaha.  I just report on works for *me* and get stuff like the vast majority does.

Enough of that - time to put Jim Svejda's classical show on KUSC to the test.  Instead of the 712's, tonight I'll use the new Loki and the 240's.  For 5 hours!  I can't listen to prog-rock *all* the time!

*Update 11:15pm* - I think Jim Svejda is a closet Head-Fi reader - taking the hint, he's playing Gustav Holst' - The Planets - to help me test my new Loki.  Thanks Jim!


----------



## Gazny

Anyone use the Loki to tune the HD650's? I finally heard the veil everyone always seems to talk about. Wondering if anyone has experimented and can share their results.


----------



## greenblured

Gazny said:


> Anyone use the Loki to tune the HD650's? I finally heard the veil everyone always seems to talk about. Wondering if anyone has experimented and can share their results.


Got the Loki 18 days ago. Why? To try to tame/tune bad recordings. Like Rory Gallagher, Motorhead Ac/Dc etc. Not to mention Stones 'some girls'. Gear is Hd800 &650<Qutest<Beyer A20<iPad Pro<Qobus. Never heard a veil with the 650. But with the Loki in the chain i can hear it as a lack of resolution. The Loki imo does impact the sound in a negative way when listening to hires tol recordings . That said; for lesser recordings it is ok tool. ime The Loki do not like a too hot input signal. Much better sounding with 1v insted of 2v from the Qutest. As re. the 650 and Loki. Dont'h bather. It just do not take eq as the 800. Tried it with the Beyer 990-600 ohm. No good. The 800 though responds good. But Some Girls still is a crappy recording.


----------



## greenblured

greenblured said:


> Got the Loki 18 days ago. Why? To try to tame/tune bad recordings. Like Rory Gallagher, Motorhead Ac/Dc etc. Not to mention Stones 'some girls'. Gear is Hd800 &650<Qutest<Beyer A20<iPad Pro<Qobus. Never heard a veil with the 650. But with the Loki in the chain i can hear it as a lack of resolution. The Loki imo does impact the sound in a negative way when listening to hires tol recordings . That said; for lesser recordings it is ok tool. ime The Loki do not like a too hot input signal. Much better sounding with 1v insted of 2v from the Qutest. As re. the 650 and Loki. Dont'h bather. It just do not take eq as the 800. Tried it with the Beyer 990-600 ohm. No good. The 800 though responds good. But Some Girls still is a crappy recording.


Obs.. the dac before the amp oc.


----------



## Gazny

greenblured said:


> Got the Loki 18 days ago. Why? To try to tame/tune bad recordings. Like Rory Gallagher, Motorhead Ac/Dc etc. Not to mention Stones 'some girls'. Gear is Hd800 &650<Qutest<Beyer A20<iPad Pro<Qobus. Never heard a veil with the 650. But with the Loki in the chain i can hear it as a lack of resolution. The Loki imo does impact the sound in a negative way when listening to hires tol recordings . That said; for lesser recordings it is ok tool. ime The Loki do not like a too hot input signal. Much better sounding with 1v insted of 2v from the Qutest. As re. the 650 and Loki. Dont'h bather. It just do not take eq as the 800. Tried it with the Beyer 990-600 ohm. No good. The 800 though responds good. But Some Girls still is a crappy recording.


Thank you for the reply, I have a hd650 and a beyer 880 600 ohm. cheers. 
I'll use it for something else maybe the vinyl collection.


----------



## Shane D

Gazny said:


> Thank you for the reply, I have a hd650 and a beyer 880 600 ohm. cheers.
> I'll use it for something else maybe the vinyl collection.



Just to be clear, is your chain set up as:
1) Source Quobuz/lap top?
2) DAC Qutest?
3) EQ Loki?
4) Amp Beyer A20?
5) Headphone HD800/HD650?


----------



## Gazny

1) Tidal exclusive mode /MPD
2.1) Schiit Eitr
2.2) Dac Bifrost 
3) Asgard 2
4) HD 650

I was only able to hear the veil in comparison to other headphones or iem's,


----------



## xcom

Just added a Loki to my stack. No regrets.


----------



## greenblured (Mar 3, 2020)

Shane D said:


> Just to be clear, is your chain set up as:
> 1) Source Quobuz/lap top?
> 2) DAC Qutest?
> 3) EQ Loki?
> ...





Shane D said:


> Just to be clear, is your chain set up as:
> 1) Source Quobuz/lap top?
> 2) DAC Qutest?
> 3) EQ Loki?
> ...


This is my set up.Ipad, no lap top.


----------



## Gazny

Loki review for everyone here.


----------



## Dionysus

I watched this video but thought he really didn’t provide much insight. Would have liked to see him install it and show some results from use. Just my opinion.


----------



## jambaj0e

So I used the Loki today and yesterday on my audio system between my Chord Qutest and Cayin HA-300 tube amp with an Audeze LCD-3 Fazor. Tubes are 2x Psvane Acme 300b with about 60 hours and 2x Psvane CV181-T II with about 90 hours. I’m running Morrow Audio RCA cables between the Qutest and Loki, and between the Loki and HA-300. Both cables have around 200 hours. I also have an iFi Nano iUSB3.0 between the Chord Qutest and my Windows 10 PC.



Throughout the listening session, I keep fiddling with the knobs, as well as the by-pass to see if it’s really transparent, as well as how much to add. The tone changes do work as advertised, adding as needed smoothly on each knob, as well as sounding exactly the same when you zero it all out vs by-pass.

That being said, I keep having this feeling that the mids are now a bit more forward and less “in the space”, the large soundstage shrunk a bit, and that something seems a bit off with female vocals at times.

So I A/B with the system with the Loki completely removed, and I was right! The female vocal got a bit smoother and there’s less grain in the mid-treble range when notes are sustained. Additionally, some of the instrument separation and natural timbre that I lost came back, too.

Well, so much for transparent signal!

Granted, it’s all about system synergy, and the HA-300 (especially with the resolving Psvane ACME 300bs) is known for being sensitive on what’s plugged in both ends. Perhaps it just accentuated the graininess of the Loki that would’ve otherwise been missed with a less resolving system.

Tracks listened in 16-bit 44Khz or 24-bit 48-192Khz FLAC on Amazon Music HD for the A/B test:

Heize - Falling Leaves are Beautiful
Polo & Pan - Bakara
Katie - Thinking About You
Heze - But, I am Your Buddy
Almost Here - 360 Degree tricks
Alexandre Desplat (Isle of Dogs OST) - Jupiter & Oracle
Arne Domnerus - Limehouse Blues (Live)
Bambi - River Run
Mariah Carey - Fourth of July


----------



## CaptainFantastic

jambaj0e said:


> Well, so much for transparent signal!



Wow, very much appreciated, this. Thanks!


----------



## Slim1970

jambaj0e said:


> So I used the Loki today and yesterday on my audio system between my Chord Qutest and Cayin HA-300 tube amp with an Audeze LCD-3 Fazor. Tubes are 2x Psvane Acme 300b with about 60 hours and 2x Psvane CV181-T II with about 90 hours. I’m running Morrow Audio RCA cables between the Qutest and Loki, and between the Loki and HA-300. Both cables have around 200 hours. I also have an iFi Nano iUSB3.0 between the Chord Qutest and my Windows 10 PC.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just as you said, I think you’re experiencing some signal attenuation with the Loki feeding your tube amp. Try lowering the output on your Quetest, maybe 2 volts is too high. The Loki also adds some gain to the signal when on. Between the two, I could see some problems arising. Especially, with tubes in the mix. I haven’t experienced any of the issues you’re describing with solid state amps.


----------



## Shane D

Yes, it certainly does raise the gain. Noticeable volume jump.

I have never tried it with my hybrid tube amps. I just got my first real tube amp and have no interest in plugging in the Loki.

Most of my Loki time is dedicated to the Koss ESP/E95X system.

In the past I have used my Loki to give my Grado's some bass and clean up my Beyer's.

Can I ask what you trying to change on your tube amp?


----------



## jambaj0e (Mar 26, 2020)

Shane D said:


> Yes, it certainly does raise the gain. Noticeable volume jump.
> 
> I have never tried it with my hybrid tube amps. I just got my first real tube amp and have no interest in plugging in the Loki.
> 
> ...



Only thing I'd like on my tube amp is some more bass slam and more body in the mid-bass. I think it's also part of the Psvane ACME 300b still needs to some burning in, which I've read on other forums. So hopefully once I get closer to 100 hours it'll start to drop down more.

The TJ Full music 300bs + Psvane CV181-T II that I have together previously gave me that really nice sound together in the bottom end, although at times I can sense a bit too much density and mixing in the mid/mid-treble when there's a lot of complexity. The JJ Full Music has had 200 hours on it, though.

The Psvane ACME 300b + Psvane CV181-T II is insanely detailed with big soundstage and very clear instrument separation while still staying smooth with vocals. The Loki, unfortunately affected the harder to adjust sound quality. I just went back to adding a bit more bass via Equalizer APO + Audeze Reveal + Equalizer Peace since they don't affect anything else besides frequency.


----------



## Shane D

jambaj0e said:


> Only thing I'd like on my tube amp is some more bass slam and more body in the mid-bass. I think it's also part of the Psvane ACME 300b still needs to some burning in, which I've read on other forums. So hopefully once I get closer to 100 hours it'll start to drop down more.
> 
> The JJ Full music 300bs + Psvane CV181-T II that I have together previously gave me that really nice sound together in the bottom end, although at times I can sense a bit too much density and mixing in the mid/mid-treble when there's a lot of complexity. The JJ Full Music has had 200 hours on it, though.
> 
> The Psvane ACME 300b + Psvane CV181-T II is insanely detailed with big soundstage and very clear instrument separation while still staying smooth with vocals. The Loki, unfortunately affected the harder to adjust sound quality. I just went back to adding a bit more bass via Equalizer APO + Audeze Reveal + Equalizer Peace since they don't affect anything else besides frequency.



I just bought a tube amp from Mapletree Audio Design called the Ear+ HD II.
I knew it wouldn't be thick, syrupy or bassy as I wanted a low impedance amp. I figured I would be short on bass, but after 40 hours it has loosened up and sounds great. Good strong bass with my Grado GH2's.

I would never think to EQ a tube amp. I would either tube roll or return it.

I will be making further changes to the collection and I think the only use for the Loki (mandatory) will be for the Koss Electrostatics.


----------



## jambaj0e

Shane D said:


> I just bought a tube amp from Mapletree Audio Design called the Ear+ HD II.
> I knew it wouldn't be thick, syrupy or bassy as I wanted a low impedance amp. I figured I would be short on bass, but after 40 hours it has loosened up and sounds great. Good strong bass with my Grado GH2's.
> 
> I would never think to EQ a tube amp. I would either tube roll or return it.
> ...




I decided to leave the Loki in the system. The differences when I heard it today is actually a lot more subtle, and I'd have to really look for it and A/B to really, really notice. Plus, I'm not really satisfied w/ the Equalizer APO way since upping the bass tends to have an effect on the mid-treble and treble, then I have to compensate there, too. It's a bit more  of a mess than just using 4 knobs (two really. I only change the bass and Mid-bass)


----------



## jambaj0e

Has anyone changed the wall wart for Loki, by any chance? I use the 5V iFi iPower Low Noise DC Power Supply for my Chord Qutest and they show that they have a 15V version. But the Loki manual does say it's 16VAC and to "not use any other wall-wart, or bad things might happen."

Is this 16VAC different/special vs a regular 15/16V wall wart?


----------



## Shane D

jambaj0e said:


> I decided to leave the Loki in the system. The differences when I heard it today is actually a lot more subtle, and I'd have to really look for it and A/B to really, really notice. Plus, I'm not really satisfied w/ the Equalizer APO way since upping the bass tends to have an effect on the mid-treble and treble, then I have to compensate there, too. It's a bit more  of a mess than just using 4 knobs (two really. I only change the bass and Mid-bass)



The Loki can be very subtle. I was shocked that I could max out the bass and not cause any distortion. I will Always keep it in my system.


----------



## NigelJ

jambaj0e said:


> Has anyone changed the wall wart for Loki, by any chance? I use the 5V iFi iPower Low Noise DC Power Supply for my Chord Qutest and they show that they have a 15V version. But the Loki manual does say it's 16VAC and to "not use any other wall-wart, or bad things might happen."
> 
> Is this 16VAC different/special vs a regular 15/16V wall wart?



*DO NOT* use a standard DC wall wart with any component that is designed to use an AC wall wart, like most Schiit components. Schiit's AC wall warts are basically transformers (I don't know if they include any protection measures) that simply convert the higher voltage AC line supplies to a lower voltage such as 16V AC; the Schiit component includes an internal linear DC power supply that converts the AC voltage to one or more regulated DC voltages; this allows Schiit to chose appropriate regulation for a specific component, whilst using a common wall wart.

Many standard DC wall warts use a switched mode power supply which usually result in a noisy supply and even those that use linear supplies often have limited regulation, hence noise; unless they are special low noise supplies such as the iFi one you mention. If you feed DC to a Schiit component, that is expecting AC, as a minimum it will not work and there is a possibility that it could cause damage.


----------



## flailure

NigelJ said:


> *DO NOT* use a standard DC wall wart with any component that is designed to use an AC wall wart, like most Schiit components. Schiit's AC wall warts are basically transformers (I don't know if they include any protection measures) that simply convert the higher voltage AC line supplies to a lower voltage such as 16V AC; the Schiit component includes an internal linear DC power supply that converts the AC voltage to one or more regulated DC voltages; this allows Schiit to chose appropriate regulation for a specific component, whilst using a common wall wart.
> 
> Many standard DC wall warts use a switched mode power supply which usually result in a noisy supply and even those that use linear supplies often have limited regulation, hence noise; unless they are special low noise supplies such as the iFi one you mention. If you feed DC to a Schiit component, that is expecting AC, as a minimum it will not work and there is a possibility that it could cause damage.


 +1

There are 2 common ways of converting ac to dc through a circuit board and neither particularly like getting fed dc voltage direct.  Most of the time it will work though, but then you would be adding a lot of additional voltage pathings which would more than likely just muddy up your voltage downstream.  Besides, nothing wrong with a transformer wall wart, they are miles above dc generating wall warts, which usually have the cheapest diode single layer board that can be made with nothing to keep the interference out.  The transformer set up means that the wall wart potion will never go bad unless its shorted, and it keeps dc voltage contained inside the device where its less prone to interference.  One reason I hate the name wall wart is I think it has created a stigma on this site that they are less than ideal, and in the case of dc output wall warts there may be a case there, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with ac output wall warts, they keep the transformer out of the amp and keep ac voltage in the cord. 

I guess best way to put it is, let the engineers do the engineering.  More times than not trying to add more complicated fixes to perceived 'problems' does one of two things, makes things worse, or makes no change at all.  Neither option leads to an improvement.


----------



## Shane D

jambaj0e said:


> I decided to leave the Loki in the system. The differences when I heard it today is actually a lot more subtle, and I'd have to really look for it and A/B to really, really notice. Plus, I'm not really satisfied w/ the Equalizer APO way since upping the bass tends to have an effect on the mid-treble and treble, then I have to compensate there, too. It's a bit more  of a mess than just using 4 knobs (two really. I only change the bass and Mid-bass)



Usually for me it is just a chunk of bass and touch of mids.


----------



## ThanatosVI

My Loki arrived today and it is everything I Hoped it would be.

It doesn't add any noise to my system. Bypass Sounds exactly the same as when I switch to the 2nd Input of my amp, where my DAC is connected to directly.

The equalizer itself is the cleanest I heard so far.
I bought it to give my headphones more Bass when playing Video games on the playstation,  since the PS4 doesnt offer any adjustments.

For music I usually used Software EQ, however when adding some Bass it always felt like losing some clarity and overall quality.  Not with the Loki though. So I even got a nice upgrade for music and not only for gaming.

My setup is 
Oppo sonica  -> Loki -> corda classic amp -> LCD2C/Arya/HexV2
And on Bypass it Sounds identical to Sonica -> amp...

For 150 Bucks this is a great addition imo.
Hope they bring a fully balanced Version at some point


----------



## Slim1970

ThanatosVI said:


> My Loki arrived today and it is everything I Hoped it would be.
> 
> It doesn't add any noise to my system. Bypass Sounds exactly the same as when I switch to the 2nd Input of my amp, where my DAC is connected to directly.
> 
> ...


Congrats, I have a Loki in both of my setups. I love what it brings to the sonic table.


----------



## darkarn

Will the Loki be a nice way for me to learn how to listen better and be a better judge for future equipment?

(I am looking for something reasonably cheap to ship along with the Modi Multibit firmware chip)


----------



## twiceboss

darkarn said:


> Will the Loki be a nice way for me to learn how to listen better and be a better judge for future equipment?
> 
> (I am looking for something reasonably cheap to ship along with the Modi Multibit firmware chip)


loki is a cheating machine. Any bad headphones becomes good. So why not?


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## Shane D (Oct 13, 2020)

I would agree that it is a cheating machine and a marvelous one at that. My Elex's don't need it, but the Sundara's liked it. The Grado's love it, but the Meze 99's find it too much. It is a great little tool and can fix anything, at least temporarily. It is fun and if you are shipping anyway, why not?

I am not sure about the listening better part, but it will greatly improve your mistakes. And we all make lots of mistakes trying to find what we like. There is a reason that you never see these for sale used, at least in Canada. It was cheap enough that I can't ever see selling mine, even if I don't use it all the time.


----------



## darkarn

twiceboss said:


> loki is a cheating machine. Any bad headphones becomes good. So why not?



Thanks, I have been hearing about this "turning bad headphones into good" comment a few times which got me interested. How does it help "cheat" better than software EQ? (I tried them before but they felt off)



Shane D said:


> I would agree that it is a cheating machine and a marvelous one at that. My Elex's don't need it, but the Sundara's liked it. The Grado's love it, but the Meze 99's find it too much. It is a great little tool and can fix anything, at least temporarily. It is fun and if you are shipping anyway, why not?
> 
> I am not sure about the listening better part, but it will greatly improve your mistakes. And we all make lots of mistakes trying to find what we like. There is a reason that you never see these for sale used, at least in Canada. It was cheap enough that I can't ever see selling mine, even if I don't use it all the time.



Thanks! Indeed, I wanted to make use of the shipping fee since I heard others being able to also ship some Schiit goods together with the chip. Originally I wanted the Jil (or even the Eitr) but alas I was too late and so now the Loki is the next choice.

How do you use your Loki to improve your mistake?


----------



## CaptainFantastic

darkarn said:


> Thanks, I have been hearing about this "turning bad headphones into good" comment a few times which got me interested. How does it help "cheat" better than software EQ? (I tried them before but they felt off)



I will let others explain the merits of hardware over software EQ (but I did read about it a few times). What I will say is that the Loki just lends itself to being used because of its form and tangible nature. 

While you may have a few phases during the year when you feel like going into software EQ and playing with the settings, normally this is not a daily habit, not something you go to when in daily listening one track seems to have too much bass, too much treble, etc. 

With the Loki, you are listening and enjoying the music and when the next track comes on you can just reach 50 cm, make a satisfying slight adjustment of the knob and you're continuing the enjoyment. I chose to add it to my setup even though I have the RME ADI-2 DAC in which I stored some EQ profiles (well, I only use the Nighthawk profile). At the risk of repeating myself, it offers you that satisfying ability to slightly adjust the sound on a per-track basis.

Now, since my headphones are so perfect already (HD-600 mainly), I reach to the Loki quite rarely and it is always because of faults in the track, not the headphones.


----------



## Shane D

darkarn said:


> Thanks, I have been hearing about this "turning bad headphones into good" comment a few times which got me interested. How does it help "cheat" better than software EQ? (I tried them before but they felt off)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't use software EQ as I normally don't play my music out of the computer, unless I am in my office. 
My listening station consists of a chain by my lazy boy:
DAP to DAC to Loki (or no Loki) to Amp.

As far as "fixing mistakes" goes, that is probably the wrong way to say it. You can't "fix" a crappy headphone.
However, a lot of headphones have weaknesses such as a being a bit too bright, lacking bass or the mids are a bit too recessed. These short comings can be "corrected" with the Loki.

I.E. The HD600 and all Grado's can, in my opinion, use a bit more bass.
I used to have a set of Beyer T5p.2's. To enjoy these I had to add a chunk of bass, tear off a chunk of treble and add a pinch of mids. That was a lot of correcting but it made them perfect for me. Until I got the Elex's.

Think of a Loki more as being able to change a headphone more to your preferences. Maybe not audiophile correct, but more towards the sound you enjoy.


----------



## darkarn (Oct 16, 2020)

CaptainFantastic said:


> I will let others explain the merits of hardware over software EQ (but I did read about it a few times). What I will say is that the Loki just lends itself to being used because of its form and tangible nature.
> 
> While you may have a few phases during the year when you feel like going into software EQ and playing with the settings, normally this is not a daily habit, not something you go to when in daily listening one track seems to have too much bass, too much treble, etc.
> 
> ...



Thank you, actually I am also planning to get the HD 600 once it goes on sale so now I am not sure if the Loki will still be a good fit for my use (will make a separate post soon about this)

I also listen to different genres of tracks in random order rather than just a single album in a session, so does this mean I'll be using the Loki for every track, or should I use it more to adjust for the headphones' weaknesses?



Shane D said:


> I don't use software EQ as I normally don't play my music out of the computer, unless I am in my office.
> My listening station consists of a chain by my lazy boy:
> DAP to DAC to Loki (or no Loki) to Amp.
> 
> ...



Thank you, come to think of it, my Beyerdynamics Custom One Pro does have its bass sliders that help adjust the amount of bass. Am I right to say that the Loki can also help in a similar manner?

Also, "audiophile correct" seems nearly impossible to attain I think


----------



## Shane D

darkarn said:


> Thank you, actually I am also planning to get the HD 600 once it goes on sale so now I am not sure if the Loki will still be a good fit for my use (will make a separate post soon about this)
> 
> I also listen to different genres of tracks in random order rather than just a single album in a session, so does this mean I'll be using the Loki for every track, or should I use it more to adjust for the headphones' weaknesses?
> 
> ...



I basically just use it to add bass and take down treble.


----------



## Shane D

darkarn said:


> Thank you, actually I am also planning to get the HD 600 once it goes on sale so now I am not sure if the Loki will still be a good fit for my use (will make a separate post soon about this)
> 
> I also listen to different genres of tracks in random order rather than just a single album in a session, so does this mean I'll be using the Loki for every track, or should I use it more to adjust for the headphones' weaknesses?
> 
> ...



I have used EQ's over the years that would add bass until it distorts. The Loki is much more subtle. IMO, you can improve the HD600 with some added bass, depending on the amp that you are using.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

darkarn said:


> Thank you, actually I am also planning to get the HD 600 once it goes on sale so now I am not sure if the Loki will still be a good fit for my use (will make a separate post soon about this)
> 
> I also listen to different genres of tracks in random order rather than just a single album in a session, so does this mean I'll be using the Loki for every track, or should I use it more to adjust for the headphones' weaknesses?



The Loki would be there for both scenarios. But you pick your headphones based on preference, so normally they sound the way you want. It's the tracks that are sometimes too much in one area of the frequency range and the Loki comes in. I highly recommend it. I can't see anyone regretting a Loki purchase.


----------



## MrPanda

CaptainFantastic said:


> The Loki would be there for both scenarios. But you pick your headphones based on preference, so normally they sound the way you want. It's the tracks that are sometimes too much in one area of the frequency range and the Loki comes in. I highly recommend it. I can't see anyone regretting a Loki purchase.


I wish there was one for balanced setups...


----------



## ThanatosVI

MrPanda said:


> I wish there was one for balanced setups...


Yeah we really could use a Lokius


----------



## JamminVMI

darkarn said:


> Thank you, actually I am also planning to get the HD 600 once it goes on sale so now I am not sure if the Loki will still be a good fit for my use (will make a separate post soon about this)
> 
> I also listen to different genres of tracks in random order rather than just a single album in a session, so does this mean I'll be using the Loki for every track, or should I use it more to adjust for the headphones' weaknesses?
> 
> ...


Yes, even with the HD-6xx series, Loki is a dream come true. It’s a lot of fun, but all cans benefit, and all our ears are different. I find the Beyers too bright, but Loki tames that, among other things. Best 150 I’ve spent...


----------



## darkarn

Shane D said:


> I basically just use it to add bass and take down treble.



Thanks, it seems that I will want to do the reverse for my setup/tastes



Shane D said:


> I have used EQ's over the years that would add bass until it distorts. The Loki is much more subtle. IMO, you can improve the HD600 with some added bass, depending on the amp that you are using.



Ah I see, I too used to have EQs that are like that and this was why I was hesitant with future EQ hardware/software. Thanks for confirming that it wont behave like that. Though, does this mean that it also cannot correct more serious issues (e.g. those that needeed really more bass)?



CaptainFantastic said:


> The Loki would be there for both scenarios. But you pick your headphones based on preference, so normally they sound the way you want. It's the tracks that are sometimes too much in one area of the frequency range and the Loki comes in. I highly recommend it. I can't see anyone regretting a Loki purchase.



Thanks, so it seems I'll still need to shop around for the headphones I want, and then use Loki to tweak as per needed. Not that it is a bad thing 



JamminVMI said:


> Yes, even with the HD-6xx series, Loki is a dream come true. It’s a lot of fun, but all cans benefit, and all our ears are different. I find the Beyers too bright, but Loki tames that, among other things. Best 150 I’ve spent...



Thanks, thankfully my Beyers don't seem to have this issue but sounds like it may need a treble boost


----------



## Shane D

darkarn said:


> Thanks, it seems that I will want to do the reverse for my setup/tastes
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Just addressing my part of that, it provides all the bass that I need. I am not a basshead and do not like hip hop or EDM. But when a drummer nails that drum I want to at least hear it, if not feel it. 
Mids/vocals are the most important thing to me, but a good strong bass is second.


----------



## darkarn

Shane D said:


> Just addressing my part of that, it provides all the bass that I need. I am not a basshead and do not like hip hop or EDM. But when a drummer nails that drum I want to at least hear it, if not feel it.
> Mids/vocals are the most important thing to me, but a good strong bass is second.



Same here, sometimes I need a little help with differentiating vocals with the music


----------



## darkarn

Now that I have a bit more time to read up on the Loki and EQing as a whole, here's what I think and/or want to know more about regarding the Loki:

1.If I want to adjust the mids (since some reviews seem to show that the lack of mids may be an weakness of my current and future gear), which knob should I use?
2. I have actually went back to using EQ software and found that the EqualizerAPO + Peace extension to be a joy, especially if I am using the preset generated from the hearing test feature. Has anyone here tried using these along with the Loki?
3. Can the Loki help me separate the vocals from videos too? I am thinking of using this to help me listen to foreign languages better so that I can learn and understand what is spoken better

For reference, here's the gear I am using and am intending to get
*Current*
Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro
Sennhieser IE80
Superlux HD668B
JBL LSR305 (1st Gen)

*Future*
Beyerdynamic Custom Studio
Sennhieser HD600

I am thankful for the advice so far by the way, it led me to read up about EQ a lot and made me realise that there is more to audio than simply "better" gear


----------



## Shane D

darkarn said:


> Now that I have a bit more time to read up on the Loki and EQing as a whole, here's what I think and/or want to know more about regarding the Loki:
> 
> 1.If I want to adjust the mids (since some reviews seem to show that the lack of mids may be an weakness of my current and future gear), which knob should I use?
> 2. I have actually went back to using EQ software and found that the EqualizerAPO + Peace extension to be a joy, especially if I am using the preset generated from the hearing test feature. Has anyone here tried using these along with the Loki?
> ...



To learn more about the Loki, just Google "Loki manual".
That PDF file should answer most of your questions. Or just go to Schiit.com.

I have no knowledge of your headphones.

I don't think the Loki can "pull" vocals out, but it can accent them a little more.

I do 90% of my listening away from a computer so I need a physical EQ and I like the Affordable price.


----------



## darkarn

Shane D said:


> To learn more about the Loki, just Google "Loki manual".
> That PDF file should answer most of your questions. Or just go to Schiit.com.
> 
> I have no knowledge of your headphones.
> ...



1. Actually that was the very first thing I read the moment I saw the Loki on the Schiit website before I started posting here
2. Thanks, I am just putting out this info as it appears that not all headphones/speakers work well with EQ; might be good to see if my stuff are of that category
3. Thanks for confirming, I think this accenting may be enough for my use
4. Good point, sometimes I do want to listen from non-computer sources too (e.g. game consoles)


----------



## MrPanda

The only thing I know of that can "pull" vocals is Izotope RX8... which has some other terrific features also.  It works on WAV, FLAC, and other file formats.


----------



## darkarn

MrPanda said:


> The only thing I know of that can "pull" vocals is Izotope RX8... which has some other terrific features also.  It works on WAV, FLAC, and other file formats.



I have heard terrific things about the Izotope software but for the context of this post I was looking for real-time "pulling" of vocals


----------



## MrPanda

darkarn said:


> I have heard terrific things about the Izotope software but for the context of this post I was looking for real-time "pulling" of vocals


Izotope is terrific, but not real time... some modules take a lot of processing power and time, but it's really great stuff.


----------



## darkarn

MrPanda said:


> Izotope is terrific, but not real time... some modules take a lot of processing power and time, but it's really great stuff.



I digress but I heard of miraculous recovery/restoration of audio files using Izotope, will definitely check that out since this sounds useful


----------



## MrPanda

darkarn said:


> I digress but I heard of miraculous recovery/restoration of audio files using Izotope, will definitely check that out since this sounds useful


With a little care in setup, it's almost artifact free....  it can rescue really damaged recordings, and still sound musical.


----------



## darkarn

Weird question time: Has the Loki curbed any desire to do tube rolling? I wonder if the Loki's tone controls play a bigger part in the sound than using different tubes in a tube amp


----------



## Slim1970

darkarn said:


> Weird question time: Has the Loki curbed any desire to do tube rolling? I wonder if the Loki's tone controls play a bigger part in the sound than using different tubes in a tube amp


I have my Loki inline with my liquid platinum and Hugo 2. It works just as well with tubes as it does solid state devices. The Loki is more of a tone control that EQ to my ears. My RME ADI-2 Pro has a nice onboard PEQ with bass and treble tone controls for better shaping of the sound.


----------



## JTori

darkarn said:


> Weird question time: Has the Loki curbed any desire to do tube rolling? I wonder if the Loki's tone controls play a bigger part in the sound than using different tubes in a tube amp



That's a tough question to answer; there are simply too many variables to consider.  There's system configuration, personal preference, individual tube characteristics ...   

I can share with you my own experience.  I purchased to Loki specifically to tailor the sound of my ESP950s, and it has worked like a charm.  It's allowed me to boost or attenuate  frequency bands selectively, oftentimes by album.  This isn't something you can do, or do easily, via tube rolling.  Tubes were, obviously, not a factor in this instance.  The connection chain in this instance is:  Benchmark DAC3-DX > high-quality, DIY switcher > Loki > E/90X energizer.

Before dedicating it to the ESP950, I connected it so I could use it with any of my amps, which include the ESP950, Bottlehead Mainline and Bottlehead Crack-a-two-a.  While it allowed me to do some tweaking with the two tube amps, I found that, once I had settled on my tubes of choice for the amps, I really didn't apply any EQ.  The connection chain in this instance was:  Benchmark DAC3-DX > Loki > high-quality, DIY switcher > any of my three amps.

A final thought:  From a cost/value perspective, I consider the Loki to be a no brainer.  It's a well thought out and implemented unit.  For what you'd spend on one or a few high-quality tubes, you'll have something that allows you to tailor individual frequency bands to your liking with little or no negative sonic impact.  And, if you don't want to apply EQ, you can simply hit the bypass switch.

Hope this helps.

Joe.


----------



## JamminVMI

My take: Not at all. I use it as a headphone-tamer. A tube changes the overall sound of the amp, then loki eliminates the treble peak of Sundara, etc...


----------



## VRacer-111 (Nov 23, 2020)

darkarn said:


> Weird question time: Has the Loki curbed any desire to do tube rolling? I wonder if the Loki's tone controls play a bigger part in the sound than using different tubes in a tube amp



No... tubes still do their own thing and have their own unique presentation/characteristics... Loki simply cannot get the crazy separation and 3D holographic spatial projection of the CIFTE 12AU7 tube nor the absolutely solid sounding lowend and vocals from a Mullard CV4024 tube. No ammount of EQ can change the separation or spacial presentation of a headphone... but tubes can. I use my Loki in conjunction with my Project Ember, mainly to help reinforce the subbass but also for slight tweaks for vocals and treble as needed.


----------



## BobSmith8901

Wondering if those who like solo piano recordings or piano trio stuff use the Loki to clean up the sometimes wooly/muddy/globby sound of piano notes in the middle-lower registers. Does the 400Hz knob help in this, realizing that lower midrange-bloomy cans like the HD-6XX can play a role too? Just wondering if Loki's 400Hz knob is able to cleanup to some degree in this area.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Confirmed, a Big Crazy Loki is in the works. See at 1:30.


----------



## ThanatosVI

CaptainFantastic said:


> Confirmed, a Big Crazy Loki is in the works. See at 1:30.



Can't wait!


----------



## Zachik

ThanatosVI said:


> Can't wait!


well... sounds like you'd have to! For quite a while...


----------



## ThanatosVI

Zachik said:


> well... sounds like you'd have to! For quite a while...


Well it still feels a lot sooner than when it was only a dream of us


----------



## ThanatosVI

Does anybody know about the output voltage of the Schiit Loki?


----------



## mab1376

ThanatosVI said:


> Does anybody know about the output voltage of the Schiit Loki?



*Maximum Output: *10V RMS into 10K ohms


----------



## Slim1970

Is there an upgraded Loki in the works?


----------



## CaptainFantastic

@Slim1970 See post 861 above.


----------



## Slim1970

CaptainFantastic said:


> @Slim1970 See post 861 above.


Oooh nice!!


----------



## InstantSilence

Guys

Will this crap actually work and no hurt my headphones? 

I'm trying to go from DAC to Loki to headphone 
Just for trial at first, if it works good and is transparent I'll get a better cable made. 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07K7C1MSF/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_5.2bGbEES96R4


----------



## JamminVMI

InstantSilence said:


> Guys
> 
> Will this crap actually work and no hurt my headphones?
> 
> ...


help me out here, people... won’t he need an amp after Loki?


----------



## InstantSilence

JamminVMI said:


> help me out here, people... won’t he need an amp after Loki?


I'm hoping not (I got one of course) just want to see if loki can be used with an integrated dac/amp. 
It sure would be sweet. 

And even sweeter if it's transparent 
And a whole bunch of sweet if the Loki 2 supports everything


----------



## jnak00

Loki should go between DAC and amp.  If it's an all-in-one unit, you probably shouldn't use Loki.  It's not designed to take amplified signals


----------



## InstantSilence

jnak00 said:


> Loki should go between DAC and amp.  If it's an all-in-one unit, you probably shouldn't use Loki.  It's not designed to take amplified signals


But isn't a dac that sends signal at max volume an amplified signal on its own?


----------



## ThanatosVI

You should still use an amp, even if it is just a small magni.

The Loki is no amplifier and has a 75 Ohm output impedance. It's supposed to send high voltage low current line level signals. 

Anyways the impedance mismatch alone will make everything sound bad to begin eith, especially on dynamic drivers


----------



## InstantSilence

ThanatosVI said:


> You should still use an amp, even if it is just a small magni.
> 
> The Loki is no amplifier and has a 75 Ohm output impedance. It's supposed to send high voltage low current line level signals.
> 
> Anyways the impedance mismatch alone will make everything sound bad to begin eith, especially on dynamic drivers


OK fair enough. Thanks


----------



## InstantSilence

What are some *bang for the buck * decent cables (I guess I need 4rca) to connect loki in my system. Looking for affordable but quality if there is such a thing. I don't mind hunting for used.


----------



## ThanatosVI

InstantSilence said:


> What are some *bang for the buck * decent cables (I guess I need 4rca) to connect loki in my system. Looking for affordable but quality if there is such a thing. I don't mind hunting for used.


Amazon basics is actually quite good.


----------



## InstantSilence

ThanatosVI said:


> Amazon basics is actually quite good.


Whats a few notches above those?


----------



## ThanatosVI

InstantSilence said:


> Whats a few notches above those?


I used Oehlbach cables for the first few years (40€ per cable), can't say if they were better or just different. 
After that I made directly the jump to Norne Silvergarde S4 interconnects,  whixh are tons of notches above.


----------



## Zachik

InstantSilence said:


> Whats a few notches above those?


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PFNSFZT/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## JamminVMI

InstantSilence said:


> But isn't a dac that sends signal at max volume an amplified signal on its own?


No. It’s line level out. (I think). But it is transparent (until you turn the knobs, of course). You’ll love it, but it goes between DAC and amp. DACs just convert to analog. They don’t amplify.


----------



## spencefunk

I really wish they could make a balanced Loki, I would buy that in a heartbeat.


----------



## InstantSilence

spencefunk said:


> I really wish they could make a balanced Loki, I would buy that in a heartbeat.


Im just hoping a new one comes out this year


----------



## InstantSilence

Just got a loki and love it! 
I just wish I could use it with an integrated dac/amp.... I wish I could rca into loki and back into the dac amp lol!


----------



## JamminVMI

InstantSilence said:


> Just got a loki and love it!
> I just wish I could use it with an integrated dac/amp.... I wish I could rca into loki and back into the dac amp lol!


Reason #3,215 why to buy separates. Note that this is just an opinion.I prefer separates because I don’t use USB (at the moment),, and I favour multiple input flexibility over one box.  HOWEVER - we are all different.


----------



## darkarn

JamminVMI said:


> Reason #3,215 why to buy separates. Note that this is just an opinion.I prefer separates because I don’t use USB (at the moment),, and I favour multiple input flexibility over one box.  HOWEVER - we are all different.



I agree; I find that as your budget and level of interest increase, it is more efficient to simply keep things separate


----------



## JamminVMI

darkarn said:


> I agree; I find that as your budget and level of interest increase, it is more efficient to simply keep things separate


just to show how different we all are, I’m the opposite, as budget increased, so did separates. It’s why they make both! And my desk is a mess anyway...


----------



## darkarn

JamminVMI said:


> just to show how different we all are, I’m the opposite, as budget increased, so did separates. It’s why they make both! And my desk is a mess anyway...



Indeed; those integrated stuff are good for those without much physical space. I used to have something like that too cos my desk was much smaller back then


----------



## Luke Thomas

Does the Loki work with the lack of bass on the 800s?  Might put one in between my amp and streamer. Thanks


----------



## wenbinbin2010 (Feb 8, 2021)

Has anyone tried to recreate the 4 Loki EQ knobs on a digital equalizer like Equalizer APO? For awhile I was using a DAC/streamer combo without USB, so I could no longer use Equalizer APO. That led me to buying a Loki, which was pretty helpful in tuning my headphones (HEKse) to my own sound preferences. However, now I have a new DAC using USB again, and if I can recreate the Loki digitally without much difference in sound, I might as well sell the Loki.

Going off Marv's measurements here:  Schiit Loki EQ Measurements | Super Best Audio Friends. I tried to recreate the 4 EQ bands with roughly similar Q values. My current settings are below (all peaking filters):

27 Hz - Q 0.16
380 Hz - Q 0.43
2100 Hz - Q 0.49
7800 Hz - Q 0.46
I basically used the Equalizer APO "Analysis Panel" to try to recreate the graphs for each band at their extremes (+/-12 dB). For example for knob 2 (low mids) on the Loki, I created a peaking filter centered at 400 Hz, increased gain to +12 dB, then adjusted the Q until the curve at 100 Hz was approximately at +2 dB (to line up with the graph). Then lastly to translate my own settings to the Equalizer APO bands, I went off the descriptions of the knob positions (full, 1/4 turn, 1/8 turn) to get a rough idea of how much gain to apply at each band, based on how my current Loki knobs are set.

Does my methodology seem to make sense? Wondering if anyone else has done a more sophisticated way of doing this, rather than my "eyeball" measurements. It sounds pretty good, though I will have to do some A/B testing with the Loki plugged back into my system later. Of course, having a digital EQ, I'm free to make even more detailed cuts/boosts. Still, the Loki did sound pretty good, so I'm happy even if it's odd to use such wide Q-values.

Edit: Actually going back using Jude's measurements in the video below (which are pretty much the same, just higher res graphs), fine-tuned the bands a little more.


----------



## Luke Thomas

Luke Thomas said:


> Does the Loki work with the lack of bass on the 800s?  Might put one in between my amp and streamer. Thanks


Not so sure the Loki can help with the lack of bass inherent to the sennhieser 800s


----------



## Magic77

Luke Thomas said:


> Not so sure the Loki can help with the lack of bass inherent to the sennhieser 800s


EQ’s can make a world of a difference. I don’t have the Loki, but I have a Bellari EQ570, and it really can enhance the sound of your headphones.


----------



## Slim1970

Luke Thomas said:


> Does the Loki work with the lack of bass on the 800s?  Might put one in between my amp and streamer. Thanks


The Loki does help fine tune the HD800S's bass. The HD800S's bass benefit mores from the amp and DAC pairing. For instance, the Violectric V281 is known for having a nice, weighty, low end. It brings out the bass in the HD800S's to the point I don't think it's lacking bass at all. Another great amp pairing it the Flux Labs FA-10. It's another amp with a meaty low end and probably the best midrange I've heard on a solid state amp. It pairs very well with the HD800S's with it's warm, tube-like tone. Adding a Loki in between either of these amps will add bass depth and a richer tone to the HD800S's.


----------



## mav52

I went through 3 before I finally got a unit that didn't induce hum in my system. The third unit was the charm.


----------



## Luke Thomas

Slim1970 said:


> The Loki does help fine tune the HD800S's bass. The HD800S's bass benefit mores from the amp and DAC pairing. For instance, the Violectric V281 is known for having a nice, weighty, low end. It brings out the bass in the HD800S's to the point I don't think it's lacking bass at all. Another great amp pairing it the Flux Labs FA-10. It's another amp with a meaty low end and probably the best midrange I've heard on a solid state amp. It pairs very well with the HD800S's with it's warm, tube-like tone. Adding a Loki in between either of these amps will add bass depth and a richer tone to the HD800S's.


Thx. I do have a violectric 280. But still feel the bass is lacking at times using the 800s. Might have to try a Loki. Thanks


----------



## Slim1970

Luke Thomas said:


> Thx. I do have a violectric 280. But still feel the bass is lacking at times using the 800s. Might have to try a Loki. Thanks


No problem, what DAC are you using?


----------



## Luke Thomas

Slim1970 said:


> No problem, what DAC are you using?


I have a node 2i streamer with built in mqa dac. Very detailed, little bass light


----------



## Slim1970

Luke Thomas said:


> I have a node 2i streamer with built in mqa dac. Very detailed, little bass light


As you move up the chain in DAC’s you‘ll see that every component plays a part in the overall resulting sound. I have an iFi Micro iTube2 in the chain with my V281 now and it might be a better tweak than the Loki with it’s bass boost, 3D+, and tube options. The xBass+ targets sub bass and it might be an alternate option to the Loki in your case. It gives the HD800S’s a very nice bump in bass. Since it’s really the only frequency they somewhat are lacking in.

I’m keeping the Loki in the mix with my TT2/HMS and Formula S, which is my reference setup. It plays a excellent role in tweaking the sound of various headphones I connect to it. The Hugo 2/iTube2/V281 or FA-10 is my second setup. It’s every bit as good as my reference one with added warmth and a more musical sound.


----------



## wingtsun

Slim1970 said:


> As you move up the chain in DAC’s you‘ll see that every component plays a part in the overall resulting sound. I have an iFi Micro iTube2 in the chain with my V281 now and it might be a better tweak than the Loki with it’s bass boost, 3D+, and tube options. The xBass+ targets sub bass and it might be an alternate option to the Loki in your case. It gives the HD800S’s a very nice bump in bass. Since it’s really the only frequency they somewhat are lacking in.
> 
> I’m keeping the Loki in the mix with my TT2/HMS and Formula S, which is my reference setup. It plays a excellent role in tweaking the sound of various headphones I connect to it. The Hugo 2/iTube2/V281 or FA-10 is my second setup. It’s every bit as good as my reference one with added warmth and a more musical sound.



Agreed. I use it to add a bit of color to my Genelec 8010A monitor speakers. Works a treat.


----------



## Luke Thomas

Slim1970 said:


> As you move up the chain in DAC’s you‘ll see that every component plays a part in the overall resulting sound. I have an iFi Micro iTube2 in the chain with my V281 now and it might be a better tweak than the Loki with it’s bass boost, 3D+, and tube options. The xBass+ targets sub bass and it might be an alternate option to the Loki in your case. It gives the HD800S’s a very nice bump in bass. Since it’s really the only frequency they somewhat are lacking in.
> 
> I’m keeping the Loki in the mix with my TT2/HMS and Formula S, which is my reference setup. It plays a excellent role in tweaking the sound of various headphones I connect to it. The Hugo 2/iTube2/V281 or FA-10 is my second setup. It’s every bit as good as my reference one with added warmth and a more musical sound.


Thx this sounds like a bass booster. Will research


----------



## wingtsun

Luke Thomas said:


> Thx this sounds like a bass booster. Will research



It will do this but it's much more than a bass booster.


----------



## Luke Thomas

schitt told me the Loki would be a good option for the lack of bass within the 800s headphones  . And you think the  Micro iTube2 could be a good or better option. I did research both with limited data available. Thanks


----------



## wingtsun

Luke Thomas said:


> schitt told me the Loki would be a good option for the lack of bass within the 800s headphones  . And you think the  Micro iTube2 could be a good or better option. I did research both with limited data available. Thanks



I'd go for a Loki. Why? You can up the bass incrementally and you can also up (or down) 3 other channels to perfect the sound you like.


----------



## Luke Thomas

Thx actually the itube is unavailable. All say out of stock


----------



## Slim1970

Luke Thomas said:


> schitt told me the Loki would be a good option for the lack of bass within the 800s headphones  . And you think the  Micro iTube2 could be a good or better option. I did research both with limited data available. Thanks


The Loki does add bass and it does it in incremental steps. The iTube2 options are +6 or +12 dB of bass boost. On some headphones it can be too much. So I do with I could dial it back a bit. So that’s one benefit the Loki has over the iTube2. The second one is it seems like the iTube2 is not available for purchase any longer and the Loki is. So that makes the decision a little easier


----------



## wingtsun

Luke Thomas said:


> Thx actually the itube is unavailable. All say out of stock



So is the Loki but you can find them used.


----------



## 227qed

Silly question. If I have all the knobs turned fully counterclockwise, am i turning down the bass and treble more than the mids by 6 dB?  Is this supposed to sound neutral?  I fear I’ve been making all my music /\ shaped.


----------



## JamminVMI

227qed said:


> Silly question. If I have all the knobs turned fully counterclockwise, am i turning down the bass and treble more than the mids by 6 dB?  Is this supposed to sound neutral?  I fear I’ve been making all my music /\ shaped.


Neutral is the stop in the middle (12 o’clock). Yes, you’re turning those down - but hey, you were turning them ALL down!


----------



## ThanatosVI

227qed said:


> Silly question. If I have all the knobs turned fully counterclockwise, am i turning down the bass and treble more than the mids by 6 dB?  Is this supposed to sound neutral?  I fear I’ve been making all my music /\ shaped.


All left is decreasing the frequencies,  all in the middle is neutral.
If you want neutral I recommend using the little switch on the front to Bypass the circuit.

This way you can instantly switch between q desired setting and neutral.

And yes the 20Hz and 8kHz range change by 12db at Max, while the middle frequencies go by 6db, so you did indeed reduce treble and bass more than the rest


----------



## 227qed

ThanatosVI said:


> All left is decreasing the frequencies,  all in the middle is neutral.
> If you want neutral I recommend using the little switch on the front to Bypass the circuit.
> 
> This way you can instantly switch between q desired setting and neutral.
> ...


Doh!  That schiit is crazy!  Funny enough, I’ve just been adding bass and treble back in thinking, “man, I must be a serious V-head adding in all that bass and treble”, when all along I’ve actually just been trying to get back closer to neutral.  

No wonder my emu teak seemed so bass light.  It’s kinda funny though, taking the bass out with Loki and adding it back in with the XBass on the ifi ican has actually resulted in a really pleasant and interesting low end.  I’ve basically been taking the 6 dB out, adding about 10 dB back in with the xbass, and then probably adding 2-4 dB back in with the Loki depending on what I’m doing....so yeah. Back to neutral while also taking some of the top end sibilance those Fostex drivers can have.


----------



## tameral

Can you successfully enough EQ LCD-2s with the Loki?  I've been looking around but having been able to find any feedback on this subject.


----------



## tameral

I got my loki m+ today.  Really enjoy it so far.  Helps out a lot with my LCD-2s.  Second knob is stiff and a bit scratchy but probably can live with it.


----------



## CB7FB8KgYh24E (Mar 8, 2021)

What are some non-permanent/invasive ways you guys use to mark your dials? I see with the new black revision they added an accent on the dial. But the silver version it's incredibly hard to see where the dial position is. I was thinking a sharpy? But would that not run off with your sweat quickly?

Just got the Loki Mini+ too, love it. Really allows you to tune the music to your liking and make up for deficits in your headphones. EVERYTHING sounds better now! And with the build quality, it's fun to twiddle with.

It does get relatively warm (who cares I suppose. But the Magni 3+ also gets pretty warm on its own so putting it on top or under of the Loki Mini+... I'm sure they're fine though, no doubt.), and the LED light is incredibly bright (much brighter than the Modi+ light), so I wish the power switch was on the front instead of the back. Just replace the LED with the power stick, viola


----------



## VRacer-111

I used a fine tipped sharpie on both the Ember and Loki knobs...






Fine tipped sharpie is still a bit too big to fully coat the channel... thinking the fine tipped art pins would get in there easily, but the ink wouldn't work... maybe if there was a very fine tipped paint pen.


----------



## JamminVMI (Mar 9, 2021)

VRacer-111 said:


> I used a fine tipped sharpie on both the Ember and Loki knobs...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Jetpens.com. Look for uni posca paint markers. They do 1.0mm tips... HTH! Edit: No, I have not tried them, but they sell bunches of really fine point stuff.


----------



## VRacer-111

JamminVMI said:


> Jetpens.com. Look for uni posca paint markers. They do 1.0mm tips... HTH! Edit: No, I have not tried them, but they sell bunches of really fine point stuff.


Correction to my post, I used an *ultra fine point Sharpie*... has a 1mm tip which is just a bit too big... A .8mm or smaller tip would probably be ideal for the Loki knobs.


----------



## JamminVMI

VRacer-111 said:


> Correction to my post, I used an *ultra fine point Sharpie*... has a 1mm tip which is just a bit too big... A .8mm or smaller tip would probably be ideal for the Loki knobs.


No worries. Go for the Sakura markers. Down to 0.2mm...
https://www.jetpens.com/Sakura-Pigma-Micron-Pen-Black-8-Pen-Set/pd/21477


----------



## VRacer-111 (Mar 9, 2021)

From searching just now, Pilot has an extra fine tipped permanent marker that's around 0.4mm to 0.5mm tip... I think I'll get that...


----------



## CB7FB8KgYh24E

Also just wondering, is there some kind of rule not to use a software EQ along with the Loki? Specifically using EqualizerAPO and an AutoEq profile (https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq) to neutralize headphones, then going through the Loki? Or is that a bad idea in the sound world?


----------



## VRacer-111

I use a but of EQ in Foobar2K + RME ADI-2 DAC EQ + Loki....


----------



## GuyM82

CB7FB8KgYh24E said:


> What are some non-permanent/invasive ways you guys use to mark your dials? I see with the new black revision they added an accent on the dial. But the silver version it's incredibly hard to see where the dial position is. I was thinking a sharpy? But would that not run off with your sweat quickly?


My Loki is black but the buttons are silver.
I cut out very thin strips of black adhesive with a cutter that I simply applied delicately in the slots of the buttons.
I also stuck a small round black adhesive label on the led whose light is now very attenuated.

Guytou


----------



## Raptor34

JamminVMI said:


> No worries. Go for the Sakura markers. Down to 0.2mm...
> https://www.jetpens.com/Sakura-Pigma-Micron-Pen-Black-8-Pen-Set/pd/21477


Hey, thx for the tip!  Just ordered some, not just for my Loki mini but All my Schiit knobs Really, I have alot of schiit gear that need this.


----------



## MariusAB

CB7FB8KgYh24E said:


> What are some non-permanent/invasive ways you guys use to mark your dials? I see with the new black revision they added an accent on the dial. But the silver version it's incredibly hard to see where the dial position is. I was thinking a sharpy? But would that not run off with your sweat quickly?
> 
> Just got the Loki Mini+ too, love it. Really allows you to tune the music to your liking and make up for deficits in your headphones. EVERYTHING sounds better now! And with the build quality, it's fun to twiddle with.
> 
> It does get relatively warm (who cares I suppose. But the Magni 3+ also gets pretty warm on its own so putting it on top or under of the Loki Mini+... I'm sure they're fine though, no doubt.), and the LED light is incredibly bright (much brighter than the Modi+ light), so I wish the power switch was on the front instead of the back. Just replace the LED with the power stick, viola


What are the differences of loki + vs original. Is it worth the upgrade?  I only now found info that there is some upgraded version. So how to know if you got original or upgraded version. How was the packing of + version is it written somewhere that it is upgraded + version? Thanks for help


----------



## CB7FB8KgYh24E (Mar 15, 2021)

MariusAB said:


> What are the differences of loki + vs original. Is it worth the upgrade?  I only now found info that there is some upgraded version. So how to know if you got original or upgraded version. How was the packing of + version is it written somewhere that it is upgraded + version? Thanks for help


The Loki+ came out in their March 2021 restock, so it is new. I was wondering the same, here is what their engineer stated to me in an email when I asked this question:


> Loki Mini + has boosted performance over the original Loki—using super-high-fidelity, low noise, single-discrete-gain-stage, and LC-filtered.


Here is what their site states in the Loki FAQ:


> *So wasn’t there a Loki Mini, no “Plus,” that you introduced like 5 minutes ago?*
> Yep, if 5 minutes actually means “more than three years ago.” We decided it was time to make it even better—and keep the price the same, as we are wont to do. We brought out the original Loki Mini because we’re kinda contrarian. Tone controls have become virtually verboten over the last three decades in high-end audio. For those of you who remember some crappy tone control and EQ implementations, including dull, veiled, nasty-sounding knobs on the front of receivers and noisy, truly awful-sounding banks of 10 to 30 sliders (usually fixed in a death-grin), you know that there’s a good reason tone controls went away. But we decided to take a look at it and see what we could make with a single gain stage (rather than 10-30 op-amps in a row) and using passive LC (inductor-capacitor) filtering wherever possible. And we found that we could create an extremely transparent equalizer that allowed for some very nice control over tonal characteristics, without the downside of traditional tone controls or EQs. So we decided to make it and see if you find it interesting as well.
> 
> *So how is this better than the original Loki Mini?*
> ...



The back of the new Loki+ states Loki+ and the packaging states "Loki M +" (for Loki Mini+)]

I haven't had the original Loki so can't comment on whether or not it's marketing, or actually a noticeable difference in the lower-level hi-fi gear


----------



## MariusAB

CB7FB8KgYh24E said:


> The Loki+ came out in their March 2021 restock, so it is new. I was wondering the same, here is what their engineer stated to me in an email when I asked this question:
> 
> Here is what their site states in the Loki FAQ:
> 
> ...


Thanks for explaining.  So it is possible to say from package but looks like the look of the unit  is the same right ? Ofcourse there was some changes they say  but how it will be possible to hear these differences it is a question. But possibly someone will get both and will compare. Anyway good info i got  here. I newer had loki but bought from one guy the original one  so wondering if it was worth over +. But i am not from states so either version is hard to get here  so got what was available. When i receive it will test  but i hope i will be happy with it


----------



## CB7FB8KgYh24E (Mar 15, 2021)

GuyM82 said:


> My Loki is black but the buttons are silver.
> I cut out very thin strips of black adhesive with a cutter that I simply applied delicately in the slots of the buttons.
> I also stuck a small round black adhesive label on the led whose light is now very attenuated.
> 
> Guytou


No joke, the Loki M+ could almost double as a lamp if you hung it over your head. (obviously jesting here, but the LED feels way brighter than it really should be, tbh). It, along with the much more subdued Modi 3+ LED (but still too bright IMO), light up half my room at night =/ I do have a small room though, lol

Liquid Spark's LED is very sane in comparison


Also, that's odd. Is your Loki a mini + edition, or original? The new + edition has black dials with a silver (or white, can't tell) accent on the dials. When I was looking to buy the original, the only option was the silver trim. Black wasn't listed as an option. But maybe that was just a stock issue


----------



## GuyM82

CB7FB8KgYh24E said:


> C'est aussi étrange. Votre Loki est-il une édition mini + ou originale? La nouvelle édition + a des cadrans noirs avec un accent argenté (ou blanc, je ne peux pas le dire) sur les cadrans. Lorsque je cherchais à acheter l'original, la seule option était la garniture argentée. Le noir n'était pas répertorié comme une option. Mais peut-être que c'était juste un problème de stock



When I bought my Loki from Schiit Europe (December 2019), there was still a choice of color between silver and black.
I preferred to buy the black model.

A few months later I saw that only the color silver was now available.

Guytou


----------



## mbritt

I’m really enjoying the Loki Mini + after a few days of getting to know it.  I like an analog, non-fatiguing sound that has impact even at lower volumes.  I don’t like overly bright headphones or speakers.  After over a decade in this hobby, I have found a good match in the Audeze LCD2Cs.  They come closest to the sound I am after.  There seems to be a consensus that the LCD2Cs open up a bit with a SPOFC headphone cable so I added one from C3 Audio that did just what people were saying it would.  It was a nice SQ bump with my Bifrost 2/Asgard 3 rig.

Next I wanted to put my ModiMultibit back into service and I was interested in adding a tube so I bought the new Vali 2+.  Again there seemed to be a consensus of LCD2C owners that a vintage Sovetek tube paired well with these headphones and once again I found that they were correct.  It is a really nice pairing that is fun in it’s own way, separate from the Bifrost/Asgard stack.  In another review I compared the bigger stack to eating at a fine dining restaurant and the Vali 2/ModiMulti to the best taco truck in LA.

Those small tweaks made me wonder what I could be missing out on with the bigger stack.  Should I add a tube preamp to the chain or get a Lyr 3 since I liked the Vali so much?  About then Jason announced the Loki Mini + and it got me thinking about EQ.  Roon has an EQ setting provided by Audeze for the LCD2Cs but I haven’t found it to be an improvement.  It changes the sound but it’s just different, not better to my ears.  I started thinking about how the Multibit DACs work and that they do best when fed non-oversampled files, letting the MegaComboBurritoFilter do its numerical thing.  When using the Roon EQ setting, it upsamples the file to optimize it for the EQ process so that it is now feeding the Bifrost 2 something different than the original file.  Putting the EQ in the chain after the DAC seems like a more logical solution for the way Multibit DACs work.

I should add that I seek out the best CD pressings without a of compression from the Loudness War.  I came up in the 80s and as a result I own a lot of these CDs in my collection.  Before using Schiit Multibit DACs I was buying a lot of high resolution files, SACDs, Buu-ray Audio, DVDA and expensive Japanese discs.  After hearing how good 16/44 sounded on multibit, I sold most of those discs to fund the Bifrost 2 purchase and I’ve been buying a lot of used CDs instead.  Some albums I have purchased multiple copies in various formats hoping for an improved sound.  One example is Hall & Oates Rock’n Soul Pt 1 where even the SACD version is missing a bit of slam or bass I'd like to hear and that I remember from seeing them live in 1983.  ModiMulti and Bifrost 2 bring out the best I’ve heard from this album and a lot of early CDs that people think sound thin but I’ve always felt it could be better.

Adding the Loki to the chain gives me that extra little bit that I was looking for when buying different versions of my favorite albums.  It also takes the place of tube and cable rolling which is so hit and miss.  I can add air and sparkle to the existing dynamics of the LCD2Cs and some bass slam on the low end.  My original plan was to look at the graphs and correct the dips and peaks but it has become more about experimenting with albums and finding the perfect match for my ears and system.  The bypass toggle really helps, letting you reset to neutral to hear your changes.  I understand why Jason is building the Loki Max with memory settings and a remote.  It would be a pain to get up and cross the room to change EQ settings on a living room system especially if you are listening to a playlist and not entire albums.  It’s easier on a desktop rig to make small changes by turning the small knobs.  I have a primary setting with the treble adjustment between 2 and 3 on the dial and the bass in the 2 o’clock position.  This works well for a lot of modern albums that already have good mid bass and prominent vocals.  On older recordings I also turn up the midbass and midrange to around 1 or 2 as needed.

I’ve also found that I prefer the Asgard’s low gain setting when the Loki is in the chain as opposed to the high gain without.  I think I needed a higher volume for treble clarity and impact but the Loki lets me “turn up” the volume on just those areas of the music.  I’ll need to live with this set up for a while before I land on a final setting but it has been a fun and rewarding experience with a low barrier for entry - $149 for the Loki Mini + and $36 for new Blue Jeans Cables RCAs.

My source is Roon playing CD’s I’ve burned as FLAC and Tidal streams via a RaspberryPi 4 running Silent Angel VitOs USB to Bifrost 2.  Based on my experience with the Loki Mini, I will consider adding the Loki Max in the future to my living room set up.  My ideal device would actually be a Saga S with the Loki Mini + built into it.  Probably wouldn’t fit in the same case but it would be nice to have a matching stack and one less power supply on my desktop.


----------



## Neweymatt

Thanks for the write up, I'm nearly sold on Loki, but might wait to see what Schiit have in store for the Max version.

The one thing I can't quite wrap my head around is the fact that Loki Mini has just 4 fixed bands to apply EQ. I say “just” because the software EQ I'm using on my Mac provides N-band EQ with much finer control of gain, Q, and a lot of other options.

For example, I can check out AutoEq database for “recommended” EQ settings for lots of headphones and IEMs, replicate them exactly, and then tweak to my own taste. How would I do this with Loki?


----------



## mbritt

Neweymatt said:


> For example, I can check out AutoEq database for “recommended” EQ settings for lots of headphones and IEMs, replicate them exactly, and then tweak to my own taste. How would I do this with Loki?


Probably wouldn't be easy to dial in more exacting settings with only four knobs.  I think the Loki is better suited to listening and tweaking with immediate feedback.  It's not a big deal for me because I'm only making adjustments for one set of headphones (LCD2C) and one set of IEMs (Meze Rai Solo).  I also feel it's more important to put EQ after the Multibit DACs in the chain for best results.  Maybe the larger Loki will be better suited for your purposes when it's released.


----------



## Neweymatt

mbritt said:


> Maybe the larger Loki will be better suited for your purposes


Obsessions is more like it


----------



## InvisibleInk

mbritt said:


> Should I add a tube preamp to the chain or get a Lyr 3 since I liked the Vali so much?



Give yourself time to enjoy it, before vaulting up to that level. Unless, of course, your money tree is in full bloom on this first day of Spring!

Cheers


----------



## CB7FB8KgYh24E

Neweymatt said:


> Thanks for the write up, I'm nearly sold on Loki, but might wait to see what Schiit have in store for the Max version.
> 
> The one thing I can't quite wrap my head around is the fact that Loki Mini has just 4 fixed bands to apply EQ. I say “just” because the software EQ I'm using on my Mac provides N-band EQ with much finer control of gain, Q, and a lot of other options.
> 
> For example, I can check out AutoEq database for “recommended” EQ settings for lots of headphones and IEMs, replicate them exactly, and then tweak to my own taste. How would I do this with Loki?


You could add in EqualizerAPO / Peace and have an AutoEQ profile there, and attach a Loki as well for further tweaking as needed on a case by case basis. This is what I do


----------



## CB7FB8KgYh24E

Really stupid question, but is increasing the gain on all 4 knobs by some set amount - say +5db - accomplish the same thing and sound the same as just increasing the volume by +5db?


----------



## Neweymatt

CB7FB8KgYh24E said:


> You could add in EqualizerAPO / Peace and have an AutoEQ profile there, and attach a Loki as well for further tweaking as needed on a case by case basis. This is what I do


Right, so I really do NEED ONE! Business Case Justified!! 

It would actually be handy to have for other sources than my Mac that don't have EQ...


----------



## tincanear (Mar 21, 2021)

CB7FB8KgYh24E said:


> Really stupid question, but is increasing the gain on all 4 knobs by some set amount - say +5db - accomplish the same thing and sound the same as just increasing the volume by +5db?


almost the same thing.  slightly better to increase the amp volume by +5dB instead of all 4 Loki bands.


----------



## mbritt

CB7FB8KgYh24E said:


> Really stupid question, but is increasing the gain on all 4 knobs by some set amount - say +5db - accomplish the same thing and sound the same as just increasing the volume by +5db?


Ha!  Good point.  I was so enamored with the sound I was getting from turning the knobs I hadn't thought about whether turning all knobs to the same position might just be turning up the overall volume. I think this is one of the reasons people are so hesitant to try EQ and that presets are so popular.  My experiences in the 80's with those crappy sliders was that I always made the sound worse with hardware EQ.  Not so with the Loki Mini.  I can hear the change clearly and go back and forth with the toggle to double check that it is actually better and not just louder/different.  The knobs don't change the frequencies at the same rate so even if all knobs were in the same position they wouldn't just be boosting the volume.  According to the Schiit website:


> Loki Mini also features gentle control and rational ranges to allow for precise and subtle tonal alterations. Potentiometers are progressive, so that a full 30 degrees is needed for the first dB of boost or cut. Loki Mini offers adjustment center frequencies of 20 Hz, 400 Hz, 2kHz, and 8kHz. 20Hz and 8kHz offer +/-12dB of adjustment, while 400Hz and 2kHz offer +/-6dB.


This subtle adjustment is probably why I haven't felt like I've ruined the music with my adjustments.  It sounds to me from the description above that the Bass and Treble setting goes twice as far with the same setting as the Midbass and Midrange.  I have noticed that extreme ends of Treble and Bass can be too much.  This morning I'm listening to speakers via the Asgard 3 pre-outs to a Peachtree Audio integrated.  The Loki is active in the chain.  My speakers are Axiom Audio M3Ti's which have a nice MidBass and amazing stereo imaging with a warm analog undertone.  They seem to respond to a boost to the treble setting just like the LCD2Cs.  No bass is needed since they are on a desktop and will get boomy if the bass is boosted.  They sit close to the wall so I have port plugs in the back to tamp down the bass and midbass mushiness.  I'm going to try removing the port plugs and turning down the bass and midbass to see if I get a similar sound.  Can't do it now because I'm enjoying Billy Joel's The Stranger.  The symbol brush percussion in Scenes from an Italian Restaurant sound really alive and I can't say I ever really noticed them before in this song.  The Sax just started in with the solo at the end and it also has more sparkle than I think I'm used to hearing from my system.  I'm definitely getting enjoyment and entertainment out of my Loki Mini +.


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## tincanear (Mar 25, 2021)

Loki Mini+ is great for adjusting the sound on older 80's recordings (e.g. Genesis Trick of the Tail) to add a little more low end weight, plus it has a bypass mode when not needed with better recordings.  Subtle (1/4 turn or less) adjustments go a long way to re-balancing the sound.

Much cheaper than buying an extra set of decent quality cans of another "flavor".


----------



## Huntersknoll

I might give the Loki mini a go. I love my TR-X00 PH but sometimes the treble is a tad too bright so hopefully I could turn down the treble a bit to cool the sizzle off a bit.


----------



## JamminVMI

Huntersknoll said:


> I might give the Loki mini a go. I love my TR-X00 PH but sometimes the treble is a tad too bright so hopefully I could turn down the treble a bit to cool the sizzle off a bit.


It’s how I tame the bass in my Meze 99s! My LokiMini + arrived yesterday for my desk rig. Have the original for the main listening area.


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## MrGoat

There is going to be a Loki Max?! Take my money! 

I still adore the original Loki, even though it barely gets used... but when it does!


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## Zachik

MrGoat said:


> There is going to be a Loki Max?! Take my money!


Careful with what you wish for... Jason mentioned the price will be approx. 10 times that of the Loki Mini. 
Are you still excited?


----------



## ThanatosVI

Zachik said:


> Careful with what you wish for... Jason mentioned the price will be approx. 10 times that of the Loki Mini.
> Are you still excited?


Yes!


----------



## Slim1970

Zachik said:


> Careful with what you wish for... Jason mentioned the price will be approx. 10 times that of the Loki Mini.
> Are you still excited?


As long as there is a balance in/out I think I will go for the Max. It's why I haven't updated to the Loki+.


----------



## Luke Thomas

Would the Loki help with the lack of bass within the Senn 800s


----------



## Slim1970

Luke Thomas said:


> Would the Loki help with the lack of bass within the Senn 800s


It adds some, yes. It's not boomy bass though. It's clean, linear and it doesn't interfere with the natural frequency response of the HD800S's.


----------



## Luke Thomas

Slim1970 said:


> It adds some, yes. It's not boomy bass though. It's clean, linear and it doesn't interfere with the natural frequency response of the HD800S's.


Great just a little more bass and the 800s are impossible to beat.


----------



## Slim1970

Luke Thomas said:


> Great just a little more bass and the 800s are impossible to beat.


They are fantastic headphones. The HD800S's are one of the most accurate headphone I own. The Loki adds just enough low end to make them a very enjoyable listen.


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## Luke Thomas

Thanks above. Sorry for not researching. Is there a Loki Max. Or does one with the 800s headphones just purchase the original Loki ?


----------



## rids57

They are working on a Loki Max now so it may be worth waiting


----------



## Luke Thomas

Thanks


----------



## inventionlws

After comparing Schiit's own measurement of the Loki mini + and SBAF's measurement of the loki mini with aligned y and x axis, it seems that the center frequency and Q values are not changed, except for the treble (8k) band, which now seems to have a center frequency of 7k instead of 8k:


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## nomis3613 (May 21, 2021)

Is anyone aware of a device out there that's similar to the mythical Loki Max please?

I am seeking a hardware stereo EQ that has at least 8 bands and a remote control. So far my search results are either pre-1990s or modern rack-mount pro gear, neither of which have a remote.

Thanks,
Simon


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## Luke Thomas

Schitt web says 4 week delivery for Loki plus. Must not be in stock.  Would luv to add some bass to my Sen 800s


----------



## Crowbar44

So the idea of high quality, high end, tone controls done in hardware is becoming increasing appealing to me. Software tone controls (EQ) don't interest me that much though. The idea of opening a app, tweaking a profile, listening, then deciding I don't like what I hear, and then tweaking again...just seems like torture...and completely takes me me out of the music.

So if Schiit designs a mini "cello audio palate"...I'm in...if it's really transparent, but honestly, another active component in the analog signal path just ain't very "high end"...

But here's my question...and it's probably a better question for Mike Moffat...could a product with 5-10 EQ knobs (parametric knobs?) be designed to operate solely in the digital domain? I'm thinking a box with tone control knobs that sits between the digital source and the DAC (or perhaps a combined DAC/EQ [tone control] box) that tweaks the EQ in the digital domain, with a knob, on the fly while I listen, before the D to A conversion is done. How much lag would there be after I turn a tone control knob and hear the change?

This is a product I would buy in a heartbeat...just a thought.


----------



## 471724

inventionlws said:


> After comparing Schiit's own measurement of the Loki mini + and SBAF's measurement of the loki mini with aligned y and x axis, it seems that the center frequency and Q values are not changed, except for the treble (8k) band, which now seems to have a center frequency of 7k instead of 8k:



These frequency/amplitude plots for the 4 bands show 7 positions for each band. Are these steps in the hardware, or are the controls continuous?


----------



## ThanatosVI

quadels said:


> These frequency/amplitude plots for the 4 bands show 7 positions for each band. Are these steps in the hardware, or are the controls continuous?


Continuous,  no fixed steps


----------



## Luke Thomas

All I know is when the Loki becomes available I want to try it with the Sen 800s. Too see if we can add some bass


----------



## G0rt

Loki Mini+ arrived today, and Holy Schiit! [Genuflects toward Corpus Chrisi]

I used to run my 2-ch through an ancient GAS Thoebe, bumping bass and treble in a subtle way to liven up my DIY open baffles.

Then everything went to Schiit, Mimby and SYS, beautiful but not complete.

Today, instantly, Loki wakes the bass, dials out an annoying room resonance, puts sparkle back into the treble, all without screwing up anything else. At all.

Genius.


----------



## Slim1970

G0rt said:


> Loki Mini+ arrived today, and Holy Schiit! [Genuflects toward Corpus Chrisi]
> 
> I used to run my 2-ch through an ancient GAS Thoebe, bumping bass and treble in a subtle way to liven up my DIY open baffles.
> 
> ...


I wonder how much better is it over the original Loki? Is it worth the upgrade?


----------



## BobSmith8901

New Schiit Lokius

https://www.schiit.com/products/lokius


----------



## G0rt

Slim1970 said:


> I wonder how much better is it over the original Loki? Is it worth the upgrade?


I expect it's more a matter of matching requirements. 

The Mini+ is perfect for my 2-ch, but a Lokius would be interesting between Gumby and Mjolnir2, for a couple of my quirkier cans that could benefit.

Loki Max? Hmmmmmm...


----------



## squeakez

Slim1970 said:


> I wonder how much better is it over the original Loki? Is it worth the upgrade?


I hate to have to say this, but the Loki+ is not better than the original version. I just got the Loki+ yesterday and was interested to hear the difference. The system I've been using lately is the Signature Zen Dac and Amp with the Ultrasone Edition 10 and Beyer T5P 2nd Gen. I listened for about 45 minutes and wondered where the magic went. I switched back to the original Loki and the magic instantly came back. 

The music felt like it had a veil over it - slightly muffled sounding. I was shocked by this. Very disappointed. I suppose if you had never heard the original then you wouldn't know there was a problem. I will be sticking with the original.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

squeakez said:


> I hate to have to say this, but the Loki+ is not better than the original version. I just got the Loki+ yesterday and was interested to hear the difference. The system I've been using lately is the Signature Zen Dac and Amp with the Ultrasone Edition 10 and Beyer T5P 2nd Gen. I listened for about 45 minutes and wondered where the magic went. I switched back to the original Loki and the magic instantly came back.
> 
> The music felt like it had a veil over it - slightly muffled sounding. I was shocked by this. Very disappointed. I suppose if you had never heard the original then you wouldn't know there was a problem. I will be sticking with the original.



Interesting observations. Thanks. I do remember watching a video from Schiit some two or three months ago and they were speaking of the Loki+, how it's coming but they still have some issues to work out. So I was surprised to see it come out so quickly thereafter (I mean, first you workout the issues, then you do some extensive testing, then manufacture... I would imagine this take many months). So I am not overly surprised to hear that there are some issues perhaps.


----------



## Slim1970

squeakez said:


> I hate to have to say this, but the Loki+ is not better than the original version. I just got the Loki+ yesterday and was interested to hear the difference. The system I've been using lately is the Signature Zen Dac and Amp with the Ultrasone Edition 10 and Beyer T5P 2nd Gen. I listened for about 45 minutes and wondered where the magic went. I switched back to the original Loki and the magic instantly came back.
> 
> The music felt like it had a veil over it - slightly muffled sounding. I was shocked by this. Very disappointed. I suppose if you had never heard the original then you wouldn't know there was a problem. I will be sticking with the original.


Wow, interesting. I still have the original Loki as I didn’t make the move to the Loki+. I have mine sitting in between my Chord Dave and Luxman/GS-X MK2 when I need them for listening to my hard to drive cans. I don’t notice any drop off in sound quality. I plan on trying out the Lokius. It’s additional bands will suit me well. I just hope it‘s as transparent as the original Loki.


----------



## Slim1970

G0rt said:


> I expect it's more a matter of matching requirements.
> 
> The Mini+ is perfect for my 2-ch, but a Lokius would be interesting between Gumby and Mjolnir2, for a couple of my quirkier cans that could benefit.
> 
> Loki Max? Hmmmmmm...


The Loki Max sounds insane. If it‘s a PEQ with a true balanced design it will be better than all the current versions. PEQ is just a better type of EQ in my opinion.


----------



## 471724

Slim1970 said:


> The Loki Max sounds insane. If it‘s a PEQ with a true balanced design it will be better than all the current versions. PEQ is just a better type of EQ in my opinion.



It's unlikely that the Lokius is a parametric EQ in the sense that you can set and adjust the various parameters, especially Q (filter slope and rise time/ringing behavior) but also frequency and filter type. These parameters must be fixed in the hardware of the Loki Mini and Lokius. Parametric adjustment capability is necessarily limited to digital equalizers and is one of their advantages in the tradeoffs between digital and analog equalizers.


----------



## Luke Thomas

Bummer the guy above didn’t like it.  Makes me rethink the idea that this Loki could help with the lack of bass within the Sennheiser 800s


----------



## Slim1970

Luke Thomas said:


> Bummer the guy above didn’t like it.  Makes me rethink the idea that this Loki could help with the lack of bass within the Sennheiser 800s


It does, but don’t expect it be a huge deviation from the base sound. That’s what I like about the Loki. It doesn’t over emphasize the frequencies being EQ’d and distort the headphones.


----------



## Luke Thomas

Slim1970 said:


> It does, but don’t expect it be a huge deviation from the base sound. That’s what I like about the Loki. It doesn’t over emphasize the frequencies being EQ’d and distort the headphones.


So u suggest the Loki for the 800s


----------



## Slim1970

Luke Thomas said:


> So u suggest the Loki for the 800s


I use it to tweak the sound all of my headphones


----------



## Luke Thomas

Thx


----------



## tincanear

The plan is for three models in the Loki EQ line-up:  Loki Mini+ (4 bands), the new-this-week $299 USD Lokius (6 bands, mid-size Asgard3/Jotunheim 2 footprint), and the not-yet-released Loki max (based on the large dev green board that Jason previewed a while ago with remote control, motorized pots, and presets).  none of Loki family have parametric EQ, but instead have variable-Q with a fixed center frequency for each band.


----------



## 471724 (Jul 17, 2021)

squeakez said:


> I hate to have to say this, but the Loki+ is not better than the original version. I just got the Loki+ yesterday and was interested to hear the difference. The system I've been using lately is the Signature Zen Dac and Amp with the Ultrasone Edition 10 and Beyer T5P 2nd Gen. I listened for about 45 minutes and wondered where the magic went. I switched back to the original Loki and the magic instantly came back.
> 
> The music felt like it had a veil over it - slightly muffled sounding. I was shocked by this. Very disappointed. I suppose if you had never heard the original then you wouldn't know there was a problem. I will be sticking with the original.



Of course this is your ears and your system, but I would have to assume my impression would be the same, since I am very sensitive to this sort of sonic degradation. Just a guess, but it might be due to a parts change in going from California to production in Corpus Christi Texas. All it would take would be using some different brand or type of inductors and/or capacitors in the LC filters, or resistors/transistors from different manufacturers. Same or very similar parts values but different manufacturers. If some of the components in the original Loki Mini were "tuned" or specially selected for their sound in the unit, while the parts in the new production units were changed because of a new company doing the manufacturing and not doing the "tuning" of the now changed parts. One sign of this might be the measured change in the center frequency of the treble LC filter from 8kHZ to 7kHz.


----------



## Luke Thomas

Will the Loki work inserted between a dap and a amp ? Thanks


----------



## CaptainFantastic

Luke Thomas said:


> Will the Loki work inserted between a dap and a amp ? Thanks



The Loki Mini has RCA in. So if your DAP has analog out and you have a cable that can work between the two, I guess it should work.


----------



## Luke Thomas

Thanks all. The Loki is ordered. It will have a 10 day trial period to make my Senn 800s sound better.


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## bluemansegundo (Jul 24, 2021)

tincanear said:


> The plan is for three models in the Loki EQ line-up:  Loki Mini+ (4 bands), the new-this-week $299 USD Lokius (6 bands, mid-size Asgard3/Jotunheim 2 footprint), and the not-yet-released Loki max (based on the large dev green board that Jason previewed a while ago with remote control, motorized pots, and presets).  none of Loki family have parametric EQ, but instead have variable-Q with a fixed center frequency for each band.


Maybe the Loki max with motorized pots will have the ability to retain presets via remote👍🏼


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## Luke Thomas

So far the Loki is very good. 800s cans through a violectric amp.  I can now listen to classic rock. Never could before as this genre needs bass.


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## sjbrook (Oct 3, 2021)

Not a lot of activity here lately so here's my .02...

Spent a lot of time and energy over the past two years upgrading and tweaking my desktop setup.  Pandemic sent me from 40% to 100% wfh and music is pretty critical to getting through the day.  I have found that over time I prefer near field speaker listening to headphones while working.  Cans can be too involving and I tend to lose focus and drift into the music which, pleasant though it is, is a productivity suck.

I did find nirvana when I finally found APO with Peace.  Made my 80th anniversary Wharfedale Dentons really sing (rear ports plugged, distance from wall is only 7”) and also let every set of headphones find their own magic (running tape out from mid-90's Kenwood avr to a Liquid Spark).  But this just brought more frustration in that every set of headphones I own seems fundamentally deficient in one or more aspects when used in the place I really want them – the living room.

I have never been concerned with the absence of tone controls on my preamp (Anthem Pre2L, 4xE88CC Golden Lion).  I don't buy into the notion that having tone controls is a bad thing but I have never really needed them in my current setup (ET LFT8b with B&W ASW1000).  But the lack of them is a distinct disadvantage with many headphones. When I used to use a DAP the availability of a decent set of eq controls was essential.  I guess I need to turn in my audiophile purity pledge card.

I hemmed and hawed a little about the Mini+ vs a Lokius but after exhaustive reading (including this entire thread) I decided the Mini+ would probably do what I wanted and not drive me crazy with too many choices.  The unit has one knob (8kHz) slightly off TDC but I am not concerned.  I did opt for the black chassis so I could actually see where the knobs are set.  The LED is bright enough to blind a 747.  Two layers of blue painter's tape cured that.

Signal path: Pioneer PD-65==>Coax==>Topping D30==>Mini+==>Anthem Pre2L

The headphone output of the Anthem runs from the tubes and while it is a design from the 1990's it is very pleasant and will adequately drive anything I have ever connected to it.  The Mini+ does not introduce any discernible noise.  I generally listen to the PD-65 from its onboard dac into a different input on the preamp. The D30 exists primarily for the usb interface and occasional computer source use. Implementing the Mini+ this way allowed me a completely separate signal path.

Below are settings and observations on various cans.  Assuming TDC as 0 I see attenuation as "–" and gain as "+", on a scale from 0 to 5 in either direction.  This is utterly imprecise but let's be fair, if you want/need super precise gradations this is not the device.  It is, despite what it may be called, a tone control.  It is not an eq in the sense of any fully parametric multi-band device or dsp room correction.

I will rate this as a worthwhile investment, for me, YMMV.  It is not a dramatic signal alteration, just some control where it is needed. I mark the success of a change or new gizmo by the smile factor.  If you find yourself wanting to sit there and listen to music and your mind keeps racing “now I want to hear this and next I want to hear that and after that I want to hear...” So far it is scoring well on that metric.

These settings are all specific to me and my hearing and musical tastes and are not meant to be any sort of reference.  I have more headphones but so far these are the only ones I have bothered with.

Sennheiser HD650 (drop HD6XX)
20Hz   +4
400Hz -1
2kHz   +2
8kHz   +3

This was unsurprising on the LF but very surprising on the HF.  Adding a bit of sparkle up top really brought some life to it.

AKG K240 Monitor 600 Ohm w/Shure 1540 Alcantara pads
20Hz   +5
400Hz -1
2kHz   +3
8kHz   +4

Better, pleasant, but still no where near their capability.  Using APO in the office with the Sextett settings actually make these sing out of their weight class.

Koss (Drop) KSC75x with Kramer mod diffusion plates and Yaxi pads on PE headband
20Hz   +4
400Hz 0
2kHz   0
8kHz   -2

These already have decent bass because of the Kramer but still light overall.  Pulling back the high end is a kindness.  The mids just show how absurdly spot on they already are and continue to underscore one of the most underrated driver price/performance units on the market.

Grado SR80e (all 10 driver holes vented, cups and magnets damped with adhesive backed felt) on current X series F(lat) pads.
20Hz   +3
400Hz -1
2kHz   +1
8kHz   +1

The vent mod already gave these 80e's a significant bass bump but pushing the 20Hz definitely needed the pull back at 400 to keep from bloating.  Overall I get better results with these on APO and they are mostly used at desktop.

Grado SR225x with L pads.
20Hz   +4
400Hz -1
2kHz   +1
8kHz   0

Perfectly enjoyable but not earth shattering.

Grado SR225x with G pads.
20Hz   +4
400Hz 0
2kHz   +2
8kHz   +0

Goddamn. I just keep spinning tunes and sitting here grinning like a dog.


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## Luke Thomas

loki made my 800s cans a end game scenario.


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## 471724

tincanear said:


> The plan is for three models in the Loki EQ line-up:  Loki Mini+ (4 bands), the new-this-week $299 USD Lokius (6 bands, mid-size Asgard3/Jotunheim 2 footprint), and the not-yet-released Loki max (based on the large dev green board that Jason previewed a while ago with remote control, motorized pots, and presets).  none of Loki family have parametric EQ, *but instead have variable-Q with a fixed center frequency for each band.*



I just noticed it - it seems to me that the Loki EQ family must have fixed Q for each filter section with just gain being variable. Otherwise there would be a drastic increase in price and size of chassis to accommodate the additional LC parts, and another set of 4 setting controls.


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