# Twisted Pear Buffalo Sabre DAC



## rodentmacbeastie

Hello. I am very excited about this new DAC and Twisted Pear's progress with it. This thread is not an endorsement as I have not heard it but would greatly appreciate Brian and Russ's support here. Everyone is welcome to join in except Crowbar, he has his own thread!


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## BrianDonegan

Here it is so far...

http://www.twistedpearaudio.com/digital/buffalo.aspx

 We have sent one to Dustin (chip designer) for eval and testing, and are working on the firmware.


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## swt61

I too am very exited about this one, and plan to add one to my system when available. I know many others that are also eager for the arrival. 
 I'll wait to see how the "Epic Opus" fairs against it, but I'll keep it in any case. Two DACs is far from overkill in my mind.

 Now about that Uber Controler guys?


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## Russ White

Hello Folks,

 Thank you very much for your interest. I designed the DAC for my own pleasure, but Brian and I are happy to make it available to others.

 Just wanted to touch on some design goals and features.

 First this DAC is a Stereo DAC with all four of the chip's DAC outputs paralleled.

 It can be used both as a voltage or current output DAC.

 The DAC board includes no I/V stage, so you are free to use whatever you like. 

 I have created an I/V stage called the "IVY" which can be used with this DAC or really any voltage or current output DAC.

 The IVY can be used (at least) 3 ways:

 1) Stereo Balanced output
 2) Stereo Single ended output
 3) Mono Balanced output. This is accomplished by taking the analog signal in phase on one input and anti-phase on the other and taking the balanced output at what would normally be the SE outputs, so instead of stereo SE you get mono balanced. This is especially useful when using something like PCM1794(COD) or WM8741(opus) in mono mode.

 The IVY is also designed to stack with the Buffalo for nice short connections.

 The DAC can accept SPDIF, PCM(I2S etc), and DSD.

 It can handle sampling frequencies up to 192khz with no reconfiguration required.

 It has and I2C header for external control as well as a simple on board controller that does initial setup and the goes to sleep for low noise.

 Thats all I can think of for now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I will be posting more later.

 Cheers!
 Russ


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## Russ White

A couple of other notes about Twisted Pear Audio:

 All of our designs are free to use for DIY purposes. We provide proven designs and we publish schematics. You can use them, change them, make your own DIY project. Whatever... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That's why we provide them!

 You don't have to buy our pre-assembled modules!!! This is just a service for people who want it.

 You can buy bare boards (and parts if you ask nice) from us for anything we have in stock.

 I will let you folks decide how "DIY" DIY is. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Our projects are designed to allow people of all ability levels to enjoy the designs.

 Cheers!
 Russ


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## manaox2

I'm interested of course, but I am waiting at the site to see what the price range is going to be. I purchased the OPUS DAC yesterday knowing that this was coming out, but don't believe it will be in my immediate price range.


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## dgbiker1

At the risk of sounding completely ignorant, how does this differ from the OPUS? I know it's a different DAC chip, but is it better, worse, or just different from OPUS?
 I had made up my mind on getting the OPUS, now I have another DAC to consider


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## swt61

Thanks Russ. Can you tell me will the DAC support AES/EBU?


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## Nebby

Definitely looking forward to the Sabre dac! I think it's very likely I will end up with an opus, COD, and sabre dac. Not that I mind, I enjoy experimentation


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## VeipaCray

Does the Buffalo Sabre DAC get placed into an HSBC Arena case?


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## Russ White

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Russ. Can you tell me will the DAC support AES/EBU?_

 

I have not tried it, but I think it should work fine, you will want to use a voltage divider to get the level down to SPIDF level.

 Something like this:

  Code:


```
[left]AES/EBU to S/PDIF signal level converter AES out: 2-------330 ohm-----+------------- SPDIF in | 3--+ 91 ohm | | 1--+------+---------+------------- | - ground[/left]
```

Which you can find here:

epanorama.net/S/PDIF Interface


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## joneeboi

Is it actually called the Buffalo Sabre DAC or just the Buffalo DAC? IIRC, there's a hockey team somewhere called the Buffalo Sabres.


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## Russ White

Its just the Buffalo DAC , the the Sabre reference is intentional.


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## Russ White

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *VeipaCray* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does the Buffalo Sabre DAC get placed into an HSBC Arena case?_

 

That is where it would be most at home.


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## VeipaCray

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Russ White* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That is where it would be most at home. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

As an employee of HSBC, I couldn't resist posting that.


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## scaz

GO Sabers!!


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## fierce_freak

^ Word ;D

 -edit- I just ordered panels for my DAC build, so I hope the DAC retains the name "Buffalo," or I'll have an oddly labeled front panel ;p


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## akione

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fierce_freak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ Word ;D

 -edit- I just ordered panels for my DAC build, so I hope the DAC retains the name "Buffalo," or I'll have an oddly labeled front panel ;p_

 

 Well,........... if it does get changed, at least you will have the only 'Buffalo' Dac


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## MrMajestic2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fierce_freak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ Word ;D

 -edit- I just ordered panels for my DAC build, so I hope the DAC retains the name "Buffalo," or I'll have an oddly labeled front panel ;p_

 

You think you have a problem, my panels have Jocelyn Thibault on them


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## fierce_freak

lol...That's still cool in an obscure sort of way ;D


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## rodentmacbeastie

Russ,

 Have you had any success with DSD and the Buffalo? Any idea on pricing?


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## Nebby

I think as long as the DSD is unencrypted it's good. I saw that either Russ or Brian had tested DSD with a Denon 2910.


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## bhjazz

Nice stuff, Brian & Russ! I'll be keeping an eye on this one.


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## jantze

I just have to get this DAC.


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## BrianDonegan

The first batch are up for sale tonight (Apr 26) at 10PM EST, first come, first serve. Will be getting more in a few weeks. Details on our site. We will only do complete modules for these (first 20). Next batch will also be bare boards and boards with premounted chip.


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## ezkcdude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The first batch are up for sale tonight (Apr 26) at 10PM EST, first come, first serve. Will be getting more in a few weeks. Details on our site. We will only do complete modules for these (first 20). Next batch will also be bare boards and boards with premounted chip._

 

I'm so tempted...does the Sabre DAC module have an SPDIF input? If so, I think I could run the current output from the Sabre DAC into the I/V section of one of my ezDAC boards. What is the current level coming out of the DAC, Brian?


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## MrMajestic2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The first batch are up for sale tonight (Apr 26) at 10PM EST, first come, first serve. Will be getting more in a few weeks. Details on our site. We will only do complete modules for these (first 20). Next batch will also be bare boards and boards with premounted chip._

 

Crap, I just saw a mushroom cloud rising up from my wallet


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## pabbi1

OK, idiotic question du jour: Will this be a drop in replacement for the OPUS, and will it work with the s/pdif receiver?


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## TimJo

My understanding is no to both questions. The design of the Sabre builds the receiver (and an upsampler) into the chip itself, which is one aspect that makes this chip so great. So everything up to the output stage is now on a single board.


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## manaox2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TimJo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My understanding is no to both questions. The design of the Sabre builds the receiver (and an upsampler) into the chip itself, which is one aspect that makes this chip so great. So everything up to the output stage is now on a single board._

 

The metronome should still work. So would have gotten this.


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## Gautama

What is the purpose of the IVY, in layman's terms?


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## naamanf

<-Refreshing the home page. 

 Brian, what changes are required for the IVY?


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## Russ White

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pabbi1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK, idiotic question du jour: Will this be a drop in replacement for the OPUS, and will it work with the s/pdif receiver?_

 

Yes it will work with the Wm8804 SPDIF receiver, but it would be redundant as the Buffalo already has a much better SPDIF receiver on board. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The Buffalo will take SPDIF, I2S, and DSD without any modification.

 Cheers!
 Russ


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## Russ White

And Yes you can use it as a drop in replacement for the Opus. Into a high impedance it will look like a voltage output DAC. The output impedance is about 195-ohms.


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## Russ White

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ezkcdude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm so tempted...does the Sabre DAC module have an SPDIF input? If so, I think I could run the current output from the Sabre DAC into the I/V section of one of my ezDAC boards. What is the current level coming out of the DAC, Brian?_

 

Yes the Buffalo module sports SPDIF input, as well as PCM, and DSD.

 The current output is equivalent to 1.5246Vp in series with 195-ohms. With a bias voltage at 1.65V (center of VA).

 That works out to about 7.5ma peak swing at each output centered at -8.448mA so about 15ma-pp.

 Cheers!
 Russ


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## Russ White

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *naamanf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_<-Refreshing the home page. 

 Brian, what changes are required for the IVY?_

 

Changes in relation to what? COD?

 Basically to use an IVY that was configured for COD, just add 4 resistors of 178-221 ohms at the inputs instead of the jumpers. 187 ohms will get you exactly at 2VRMS peaks.
 Cheers!
 Russ


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## Russ White

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gautama* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What is the purpose of the IVY, in layman's terms?_

 

IVY is a super symmetrical balanced output current to voltage converter with a filter and a balanced to single ended converter and output.

 It takes the output from the Buffalo as a current source and outputs a buffered voltage at 2VRMS redbook standard consumer audio levels.

 Cheers!
 Russ


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## FallenAngel

So do we have a preliminary availability date on one of these Buffalo DACs? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 EDIT: Sorry just checked the site. Getting all excited


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## Russ White

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TimJo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ So everything up to the output stage is now on a single board._

 

You can actually use the Buffalo voltage output, it just won't be at 2VRMS peaks, and the distorion will not be nearly as good.

 I would not try a simple passive resistor to GND I/V approach either as it will have significantly more distortion and less DNR than an good active I/V converter like the IVY.

 Cheers!
 Russ


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## Gautama

In a subjective order of magnitude, how much better is this than the Opus?


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## Russ White

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gautama* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In a subjective order of magnitude, how much better is this than the Opus?_

 

I am probably not the one who should answer that as I can't really be as objective as I would like... so I won't answer it directly. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What I will say is I have not heard any better DAC (and I have heard quite a few) especially for Hi Res content. At 192/24 and 96/24 it really excels where other DACs digital filters tend to muddy things up.

 Its also not really a fair fight as to get the Opus even close (jitter rejection wise) you would have to add the Metronome.

 That said. I still like the Opus, and will not be getting rid of mine. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It still has a lot great character of its own.

 Cheers!
 Russ


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## naamanf

Mine is on order. Really look forward to giving it a whirl!


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## Russ White

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *naamanf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine is on order. Really look forward to giving it a whirl!_

 

Funny, about half the DACs were gone in like 5 minutes. No kidding... Wild.

 Brian is trying to pick himself up off the floor. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cheers!
 Russ


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## Nebby

Damn, I really want to pick up a kit, but I won't be home for a while 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Can't wait to hear impressions from everyone that's picked up one though


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## fierce_freak

I figured turnout would be big, so I was nervous about getting the ordrer in...all worked out though


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## holland

I was out to dinner and was worried it would be all gone, but it looks like I got my order in just before the :30 mark.


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## Nebby

and....they're gone! That was pretty quick


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## pabbi1

Waiting for mid-May for the first round of impressions - Sabre vs OPUS shootout time.


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## holland

I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did (about 30 minutes). I'm glad that I missed every single buy opportunity for the Opus.


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## naamanf

I think it should be Buffalo Vs. COD Vs. Opus.


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## BrianDonegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *naamanf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think it should be Buffalo Vs. COD Vs. Opus._

 

Sounds like crossfire to me


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## BrianDonegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fierce_freak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I figured turnout would be big, so I was nervous about getting the ordrer in...all worked out though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You were number one again. Fastest draw in the east.


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## holland

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You were number one again. Fastest draw in the east._

 


 Hmm, IT guy, always first. Sounds like the man has a bot/script for ordering.


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## Nebby

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *naamanf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think it should be Buffalo Vs. COD Vs. Opus._

 

I agree, that would be an interesting shootout


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## fierce_freak

Haha, no bot/script...just incessant refreshing this time. Last time was a fluke; I had just happened to get up and check out the website.


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## MrMajestic2

Dang, I missed the Buffalo. I fell asleep while waiting for the release 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 10PM EST is 4AM here.


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## akione

Yeah, it was too early for me, too ......... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Never mind ...... I'm really happy with the Opus, so it won't be too painful waiting for the next round


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## MrMajestic2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *akione* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, it was too early for me, too ......... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Never mind ...... I'm really happy with the Opus, so it won't be too painful waiting for the next round 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeah, the Opus is an awesome DAC.


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## slowpogo

Is there any way to add USB input to the Buffalo?


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## MrMajestic2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slowpogo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there any way to add USB input to the Buffalo?_

 

Yes, with the USB module I guess. It can output SPDIF to the Buffalo.


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## BrianDonegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrMajestic2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dang, I missed the Buffalo. I fell asleep while waiting for the release 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 10PM EST is 4AM here._

 

Well, hopefully we never have to do something like this again. If I do, I will pick a better time. My wife is out of town this weekend so there was no time to do anything during the day. I had to wait for the kids to go to bed (8pm) and time to make a web page for it.

 Should only be a few weeks until we have more though.


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## d-cee

ah blimey, missed out due to time difference here too =(


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## MrMajestic2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, hopefully we never have to do something like this again. If I do, I will pick a better time. My wife is out of town this weekend so there was no time to do anything during the day. I had to wait for the kids to go to bed (8pm) and time to make a web page for it.

 Should only be a few weeks until we have more though._

 

No worries, my wallet thanks you


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## rodentmacbeastie

I am definately in on one too! I have been waiting for the WM8741 Opus to come out and then this! It's meant to be, it will be! Brian, I would like DAC and power supply kit and maybe the IVY. The problem I have with the IVY is that I seem to be allergic to opamps. Can you put my mind at ease that the opamp is a good idea? I want an I/V that will not leave me wanting. Regardless of what is next, this will be my last rig for 10 years or so. No more upgradeitis! 

 I would like to continue sourcing parts for my Box'O'Goodies project which is for me the end all and be all project. I am waiting for the Buffalo and the Aikido boards to come in and these will be the hub. Rig will include, HTPC with I2S out to DAC, modded SACD player to output DSD to DAC, Buffalo, Aikido and HD650. What I would like to know is what I ill need from TP and others to get what i would like. SE output is what I would like as I have deemed balanced throughout the rig would cost too much and can always be added later.

 I would like the Buffalo to accept DSD from the modded spinner, I2S from the HTPC, and an extra S/PDIF coax input would be great. What will I need for this?

 I would like to use the on board volume contol if it works with DSD without conversion as some chips do and must sound great too. How does it work and sound?

 The idea of a seperate I/V stage appeals to me and my belief that sometimes you need to go old school and have larger and more powerful output stages since this is where most manufacturers skimp! The problem I have Russ and Brian is that I applaud the IVY idea of an active I/V stage instead of just a passive resistor one. But if I was to be going all out, would I want a discrete(no opamp) tube or FET I/V converter, or the IVY? Size is not an issue and cost is not(within reason). If anyone has any great ideas for great I/V converters please chime in.

 I am very very excited! I have been without my cans for almost a year!


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## sleepy dan

Hi Rodentmacbeastie,

 I'll offer my thoughts, in addition to Russ/Brian's if that's OK. The Sabre DAC can work in voltage or current mode. In voltage mode, distortion is a little worse, but still excellent at -107db. That's still better then either the WM8740/41. I'm not sure getting even better distortion figures will help the sound, but I'm open minded.

 The point of going the I/V route is to get the absolute best distortion figures possible - up to -117dB. But most I/V stages based on discrete transistor or valves won't get near that, so are really not worth worrying about with this DAC, IMO.

 I use a transformer with my eval Sabre DAC, and it sounds excellent, so that's an option too if you want something a little different.

 So, you have a number of options, and the only way to know which is best is ultimately to experiment - and that of course is made easier by the modular nature of Twisted Pairs approach. A final note - I wouldn't pre-judge the IVY just because if uses monolythic devices. The OPA1632 is superb and uses the super-symetrical technology developed by Nelson Pass. I find it hard to believe you would be disappointed if you were to go this way.


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## holland

sleepy_dan, are you saying the IVY uses the OPA1632? I thought it uses the THS4031?

 Can you expand on the xformer for I/V? I've seen it somewhere before, but I haven't paid much attention to it.


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## sleepy dan

The IVY uses the THS4131 which is virtually the same as the OPA1632. The THS4031, which some people also like to use for I/V , is a conventional opamp.

 I'm using the transformer as a voltage device. They don't give state of the art THD figures, but can sound very good none the less.


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## holland

Thansk, I misread their webpage. THS4131 it definitely is. I thought it was just another opamp I/V at first glance. I'm glad I'm wrong.

 Can you tell I haven't been keeping up with the Twisted Pear development?


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## slowpogo

OK...so I'm in need of a DAC that takes USB, and outputs single-ended stereo.

 So it looks like I will need the second larger bundle:

 Buffalo DAC + IVY Active I/V Stage + Power Supplies Combination

 ..and also the USB input module. I can't tell, does this also need its own power supply?

 And lastly, is it possible to use a single toroidal with all of this, or would I have to go multiple? I've only used wall warts with my diy projects thus far, and am pretty clueless when it comes to toroidals.


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## Russ White

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slowpogo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK...so I'm in need of a DAC that takes USB, and outputs single-ended stereo.

 So it looks like I will need the second larger bundle:

 Buffalo DAC + IVY Active I/V Stage + Power Supplies Combination

 ..and also the USB input module. I can't tell, does this also need its own power supply?

 And lastly, is it possible to use a single toroidal with all of this, or would I have to go multiple? I've only used wall warts with my diy projects thus far, and am pretty clueless when it comes to toroidals._

 

the USB module is bus powered, so you don't need a power supply for it. This is fine since its only output will be SPIDF, or I2S. And yes, toroidal trafos work fine for this. In fact we stock very good ones at a reasonable price. You will want two. One for the DAC. and one for the IVY.


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## Russ White

The THS4131 is as close to ideal as I have even found for differential IV.

 Many people are scared off by the product info page which shows the THD at -80db. What they don't seem to understand is that this is at 1mhz!!! with no filter!! At 20khz is is well below -120db and at 1Khz the distortion floor is far below the noise floor for loads > 1K. And its stll awesome even into 90 ohms!!!

 Super symmetry is a great solution for I/V. I have tried all sorts of schemes and have come up with two I like best.

 The THS4131 (with is a bit better believe it or not than it OPA cousin) and a discrete version I have created which can deliver a bit more current.

 I am a huge believer in balanced and fully symmetrical systems. 

 Cheers!
 Russ


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## Clutz

Hi Russ,

 Will it be possible to buy the Buffalo DAC with the IVY output stage as a kit? This would be a good option for people who already have the Opus DAC, the Dual Power Supply and the bipolar Supply for the Balise (e.g. like me). I would be all over that.


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## Russ White

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clutz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Russ,

 Will it be possible to buy the Buffalo DAC with the IVY output stage as a kit? This would be a good option for people who already have the Opus DAC, the Dual Power Supply and the bipolar Supply for the Balise (e.g. like me). I would be all over that._

 

Hi,

 I think all you would need in that case is a Buffalo module, and an IVY module. I will talk with Brian about it.

 Cheers!
 Riuss


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## ianrt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clutz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Russ,

 Will it be possible to buy the Buffalo DAC with the IVY output stage as a kit? This would be a good option for people who already have the Opus DAC, the Dual Power Supply and the bipolar Supply for the Balise (e.g. like me). I would be all over that._

 

That's what I bought (for the same reasons)


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## rodentmacbeastie

sleepy dan;4142671 said:
			
		

> Hi Rodentmacbeastie,
> 
> I'll offer my thoughts, in addition to Russ/Brian's if that's OK. The Sabre DAC can work in voltage or current mode. In voltage mode, distortion is a little worse, but still excellent at -107db. That's still better then either the WM8740/41. I'm not sure getting even better distortion figures will help the sound, but I'm open minded.
> 
> ...


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## rodentmacbeastie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Russ White* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The THS4131 is as close to ideal as I have even found for differential IV.

 Many people are scared off by the product info page which shows the THD at -80db. What they don't seem to understand is that this is at 1mhz!!! with no filter!! At 20khz is is well below -120db and at 1Khz the distortion floor is far below the noise floor for loads > 1K. And its stll awesome even into 90 ohms!!!

 Super symmetry is a great solution for I/V. I have tried all sorts of schemes and have come up with two I like best.

 The THS4131 (with is a bit better believe it or not than it OPA cousin) and a discrete version I have created which can deliver a bit more current.

 I am a huge believer in balanced and fully symmetrical systems. 

 Cheers!
 Russ_

 




 How does the discrete one sound compared to the IVY?


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## Russ White

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rodentmacbeastie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How does the discrete one sound compared to the IVY?_

 

I can't hear a difference, they both seem perfectly transparent to me.

 But I know some will prefer the discrete circuit. So I undertook to design it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Cheers!
 Russ


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## Russ White

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rodentmacbeastie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So Brian and Russ, you'll have to keep us updated as to stock because it looks like I am all go for a Buffalo, IVY, and ps from you guys. Do you have answers for my other two questions? How good is the onboard volume control compared to yours or a good stepped attenuator? And is there going to be a problem with DSD, I2S, and S/PDIF inputs and if not, how do i switch them?_

 

It should just be a few weeks.

 Honestly,the Sabre's on board volume control is possibly better than any analog solution you could dream up. Simply because there is no escaping the noise passive components add to the picture in any attenuator.

 I have been using he Sabre's digital volume control for a week now, and I can say it is solid.

 So my preference would be to use the Sabre's volume control when you can.

 SPDIF, DSD, and I2S are all tested and work fine. You just need to decide at install time which you want to use as it will effect wiring a little.

 Switching between them while installed can be done, but will require a little more work.

 Cheers!
 Russ


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## akione

Having just added the IVY as the output stage/headphone driver of my pre-amp/Dac, 

 I'm very surprised that the THS4131 isn't used more often. (I suppose it's 'cos it's balanced ).

 The sound is very clear and detailed using Opus as source and balanced HD580's. 

 I find it very difficult to fault it. This chip is absolute 'magic' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I now have a redundant Beta22


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## borisov57

Couple of years ago, I have made a dac with THS4131's cousin as I/V. It sounded good, but nothing to write home about. Maybe I should try 4131 in the future.


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## rodentmacbeastie

In regards to the S/PDIF, I2S, and DSD, how would you suggest wiring a switch?


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## Russ White

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rodentmacbeastie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In regards to the S/PDIF, I2S, and DSD, how would you suggest wiring a switch?_

 

It would be possible but not simple.

 I don't think I would recommend it for most. You should choose what type of input you want at design time, then wire it up for that.

 The board has an DIP switch for changing modes, but you would have to use relays or switches to change the inputs.

 Cheers!
 Russ


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## sleepy dan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Russ White* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Honestly,the Sabre's on board volume control is possibly better than any analog solution you could dream up. Simply because there is no escaping the noise passive components add to the picture in any attenuator._

 

The problem with this sort of volume control is that you lose performance (THD, noise) in the D/A process according to how much attenuation you use. There's no free lunch! 

 If using digital attenuation it's worthwhile getting rid of any excess gain in the analog chain.


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## Russ White

This is true of analog attenuation is well. The lower the signal level the less well defined it becomes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Brian and I have sent a complete DAC up to Dustin and he will be doing a full battery of THD/DNR tests on the Buffalo.

 Hopefully it measures as good as it sounds. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cheers!
 Russ


----------



## rodentmacbeastie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Russ White* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is true of analog attenuation is well. The lower the signal level the less well defined it becomes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Brian and I have sent a complete DAC up to Dustin and he will be doing a full battery of THD/DNR tests on the Buffalo.

 Hopefully it measures as good as it sounds. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cheers!
 Russ_

 



 Thanks Russ, but I could not give a rat's ass how it measures! I am one of those people who believe in subjective analiysis and qualatative answers! I like taking an EXPERIENCED listener's OPINION of the sound, not just a spec sheet. If all that was important was the spec sheet so one can PROVE that it is better, who would care about the sound? Vocabulary, literature, and our senses and perception have been all but abolished. Soon, with our newspeak, we will not find it easy to convey emation and all that with be left is the fact are we are prescribed! GIVE ME HYPERBOLE RUSS, TELL HOW GOOD THAT FRIGGIN' DAC SOUNDS, BE PROUD, BE LOUD! Of course you have the right to at least a little one sided opinion, this is your baby! I do not know of a parent that is not proud when their kids perform well, do you? If the world was all ones and zeros... Hey wait, are we already there?


----------



## BrianDonegan

[redacted]


----------



## Russ White

Hi Rodent,

 I guess I need to take a creative writing class or something because I suck at writing about my gear. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I prefer to put more effort into design than I do promotion. I listen to my own gear so I want it to be the best I can do.

 I think the Buffalo project is my best work so far. It sounds just wonderful. Its a DAC that does not get in the way. You really don't know its there. the blacks are black and the whites are white. Everything in between is faithfully rendered.

 So - from my purely subjective point of view - I could not be happier with it, and every listening session is pure pleasure and leaves me wanting more.

 Cheers!
 Russ


----------



## rodentmacbeastie

What do you mean you creative writing skills suck? That is just the reference I like to hear, pride and modesty at the same time(pride alone is just arrogance). You should run for office. These are noble traits. As for the black and white description, perfect! This is my language as well. EVERYTHING IS BLACK AND WHITE, GREY IS JUST PLAIN LAZY! 

 Sorry for the caps, but people need to hear it me thinks! Before I go on a rant, I would like to state that I have NEVER seen, touched, or heard ANY of their products and only care to comment on the dudes themselves. So here is my black and white response... I am very pleased that folks like Brian and Russ are out there! Their black and white approach, just covered above, has obviously trickled down into the customer service and satifaction end and thus creating a responsible manufacturer that has put choice in our hands. They are on these threads day in day out(free advertising as well I guess, but just the facts no psycho-babble to sell you). All this in an effort to get what they want and to help us DIY(sort of), it is more like lego and thanks for that! All the best and I wish you success in the troubleed times ahead. Just by reading their posts I believe I have a good understanding of your nature and I will be happy to send you my money when you get the new boards(my money is my time to me and that is more valuable than gold)! 

 I can say that I have streamlined my life to fit into two duffle bags. To say that I have left room for the Buffalo is truly the best compliment I can give and I have not even heard it yet!

 ps. One bag is 500 CD's, an SACD player, currently a pair of Audioengine 5's, HD650, and soon to be an Aikido amp and Buffalo DAC. The othe bag is all of my clothes(don't need many in Asia when I go back) and everything else important to me! Take note, NO TV, NO CELL, NO JEWELRY, NO CREDIT CARDS, NO DEBT, NO HOUSE, NO CAR, NO NOTHING EXCEPT DIGNITY AND HAPPINESS! Oh yeah, I forgot to mention the one thing I have that does not fit into the bags... A network of friends that i am pround to say are some of the most worldy and caring that I have ever met. So much so that I am known for two popular quotes and the one that applies:

 "If a man's wealth was based on the quality of his friends, WOO HOO I AM F@#*NG RICH!"


----------



## TheRobbStory

All well and good. What does any of this have to do with the new offering from Twisted Pear?

 Back on topic..


----------



## BradJudy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Russ White* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It should just be a few weeks.
 So my preference would be to use the Sabre's volume control when you can._

 

Forgive my limited understanding, but I assume accessing the Sabre's volume control means attaching a control board to the I2C pads on the Buffalo? If so, are there recommendations on control board options for those of us who aren't of the level to roll our own from scratch? 

 I'm thinking of building a Twisted Pear DAC after my move this summer, so I'm pondering my options. I'm not certain if I want to take the Buffalo or Opus route and if I go Buffalo, if I should do the digital volume control or not (that probably depends more on my intended application). 

 Thanks - Brad


----------



## rodentmacbeastie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheRobbStory* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All well and good. What does any of this have to do with the new offering from Twisted Pear?

 Back on topic.._

 

Everything! You can't see how good business practices make a product saleable? Back on topic? I started this topic to pay homage to the guys and the DAC or I would be on Crowbar's policed site. Did you even state anything in you post other than rhetoric? I believe 100% that this is the DAC for me because even if it sounded like sh!t, I know by following others' experiences that these two will do all reasonably possible to ensure my satisfaction. Man, why don't these buy only a mouse and leave the keyboard to those being constuctive?


----------



## fierce_freak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *akione* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I now have a redundant Beta22 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

ha, I'll have to give it a try for kicks. redundant b22, eh?


----------



## thegeek

I was just about to write a scathing reply to rodentmacbeastie's rude and abusive recent posts, however instead of stooping to his level I will instead do the opposite.

 I would like to say that the exact reason _why_ I like twisted pear audio and russ and brian is the scientific methods they apply to their work. Instead of waxing on about how their stuff sounds better, they actually work on the "product". So far I've seen extremely few subjective comments about their own gear and I really like that because imho any engineer/diy'er should very well realize that what you create yourself is almost always best

 Keep up the good work guys and don't listen to "audiophiles" who reject science/good engineering.


----------



## akione

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fierce_freak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ha, I'll have to give it a try for kicks. redundant b22, eh?_

 






 Yeah ........ I suppose that might be a bit of a stretch .... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Bear in mind that my B22 is 3 channel and this is fully differential from dac to 'phones. 

 I'm thinking I may have to build that 4th amp board though ........ 

 ...... don't know where I'll put it


----------



## akione

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thegeek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_.........I would to say that the exact reason _why_ I like twisted pear audio and russ and brian is the scientific methods they apply to their work. Instead of waxing on about how their stuff sounds better, they actually work on the "product". So far I've seen extremely few subjective comments about their own gear and I really like that because imho any engineer/diy'er should very well realize that what you create yourself is often best

 Keep up the good work guys and don't listen to "audiophiles" who reject science/good engineering._

 

 Yes. I think it's often forgotten that they are providing a 'building block' kind of service. What anyone does with it all is entirely their own choice. 
 The boards/modules/schematics can all be tweaked to do whatever you want. 

 After all, these are Russ' and Brian's designs for themselves and it's up to us to decide if they meet our needs as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think when that is taken into account it's not really fair to expect 'subjective' responses from Russ or Brian, 
 as their opinions are based on THEIR versions, not anyone else's.

 I've seen comments suggesting the Opus is 'aggressive'. Not in my experience. 
 I find it very smooth and detailed with excellent control. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Do I need Buffalo ? Dunno.


----------



## sleepy dan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Russ White* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is true of analog attenuation is well. The lower the signal level the less well defined it becomes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



_

 

Well, the mechanism is rather different because of the fixed resolution of digital - if signal level goes down, distortion goes up. With an analog attenuator (i.e a potential divider) you attenuate both sign signal and distortion/noise by the same amount.

 I'm not saying doing it digitally is bad, just that there are draw backs with all methods. Ultimately it comes down to listening.


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


 I'm not saying doing it digitally is bad, just that there are draw backs with all methods. 
 

The biggest drawback being that the music isn't as loud


----------



## Russ White

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sleepy dan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, the mechanism is rather different because of the fixed resolution of digital - if signal level goes down, distortion goes up. With an analog attenuator (i.e a potential divider) you attenuate both sign signal and distortion/noise by the same amount.

 I'm not saying doing it digitally is bad, just that there are draw backs with all methods. Ultimately it comes down to listening._

 

I was only pointing out that even analog attenuators (no matter what sort you choose) have their own noise and distortion mechanisms that become more apparent as the signal is more attenuated.

 My post was in regard to what I have heard from the DAC, which seems to handle the volume control better than anything else I have tried (digital I mean). It helps that there is vitually zero noise coming from the DAC (partly because of the excellent common mode rejection of the IV stage). So there is for less of that to be attenuated by an analog circuit. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also by not having to attenuate the signal in the analog realm you avoid the potential need for a buffer after the attenuator. As the signal will be coming direct from the I/V stage at a very low impedance. So you can get a much smaller signal path.

 In practice, it is working very well. Thats the bottom line to me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cheers!
 Russ


----------



## Russ White

As an example of how well this short signal path works. I drive headphones from 32ohms to 600ohms directly from the IVY module. You can't get much more direct than that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It sounds fantastic. Not a hint of hiss or audible distortion. When the music is not playing you won't know the DAC is on except that the lock light is lit up. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cheers!
 Russ


----------



## gyrodec

I was just wanted to point out to thegeek that rodentmacbeastie's posts on this forum were not "rude and abusive". He did go a little too far on Crowbar's thread about the same DAC chip, but if your comment relates to his posts on this thread, then you have done him a disservice. Please read them again, allow for his obviously poor English, and it is clear that he is in fact the most pro TPA poster on this site. He LOVES those guys and their scientific based work ethic.

 He was justifiably banned for his post on the Crowbar thread, but on this thread he was actually one of the nicest posters, just bad with English and little too passionate.


----------



## thegeek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rodentmacbeastie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Russ, but I could not give a rat's ass how it measures! I am one of those people who believe in subjective analiysis and qualatative answers! I like taking an EXPERIENCED listener's OPINION of the sound, not just a spec sheet. If all that was important was the spec sheet so one can PROVE that it is better, who would care about the sound? Vocabulary, literature, and our senses and perception have been all but abolished. Soon, with our newspeak, we will not find it easy to convey emation and all that with be left is the fact are we are prescribed! GIVE ME HYPERBOLE RUSS, TELL HOW GOOD THAT FRIGGIN' DAC SOUNDS, BE PROUD, BE LOUD! Of course you have the right to at least a little one sided opinion, this is your baby! I do not know of a parent that is not proud when their kids perform well, do you? If the world was all ones and zeros... Hey wait, are we already there?_

 

No offence, but to me this seems like an attack of the very core values of the twisted pear gang. I realize that I can't speak for them, but I can certainly say that is how I would have felt reading it if I were in their shoes.

 I do realize that rodentmacbeastie did not intend for his comments to be interpreted this way but he could have made some effort to respect their opinions/values.

 Granted, "rude and abusive" may have been a little strong, but I stand behind the intent of my post. His post is at the very least disrespectful and inconsiderate, and language is not an excuse, english is not my first language either but I still manage to remain civil. 

 I would also like to say that as an engineer myself(computer science) the blatant disregard and rejection of the very core principles that has made our modern world possible and thus also the dac in question is quite frankly annoying
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 To keep this post at least a tiny bit on topic; I can't wait for the kits to be available, I'll be sure to get one


----------



## gyrodec

Quote:
 Originally Posted by rodentmacbeastie 
 GIVE ME HYPERBOLE RUSS, TELL HOW GOOD THAT FRIGGIN' DAC SOUNDS, BE PROUD, BE LOUD! Of course you have the right to at least a little one sided opinion, this is your baby! I do not know of a parent that is not proud when their kids perform well, do you? 

 thegeek - How is this anything but love? Rodent had been trying to get Russ to say how his DAC sounded, but Russ being the modest man he is wouldn't. Rodent's post was just an impassioned plea to get comments about its sound, on top of the technical discussion that had already taken place - in which rodent made it very clear he appreciated the scientific approach of the TP guys. I'll say no more on this, but I just felt the rat was missunderstood.

 Back to topic:
 My mind has already allocated funds for a Buffalo, but I just want some listening impressions first, though I'm confident they will be excellent. Come on first 20, make a DAC and tell us about how it sounds.


----------



## fierce_freak

I'll certainly let everyone know what I think when I get mine put together. I've got all the other boards ready to go (going to do all the casework on Friday), then my FPE panels should be here on Tuesday, hopefully receive the Buffalo the same week if everything goes according to plan. It shouldn't take long to get up and running (crosses fingers).


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fierce_freak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've got all the other boards ready to go_

 

What boards are those? Do tell your Buffalo configuration secrets.


----------



## fierce_freak

Haha, pretty bare-bones, really. Just an LCDPS to power the Buffalo, a torx input module, and the OTTO (switch spdif between coax and optical), a LCBPS bipolar supply for the IVY output stage. Pretty simple, but it will be beautiful when all executed.


----------



## Russ White

Hey Guys,

 I really appreciate the support from all of you in each of your diverse ways. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Rodent did not offend me.

 Some notes about listening to gear.

 Everyone is going to percieve the buffalo a little differently. Some will call it analytical, some warm. Some bright, some laid back. Just like the Opus and the COD. I don't think I have read two reviews that heard it the same way.

 This actually makes sense because there are a lot of variables. Even though these are modules there is still a lot for the DIYer to ajdust and create. So it is very likely true that many of the DACs that get built from our modules don't sound alike.

 One very cool thing about the modular approach is that you are free to plug in your own implementation of different pieces.

 Wan't to use a zero feedback I/V stage? Go ahead!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It will work fine. Want to use your own regulators? Go for it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So I expect the whole range of experiences an opinions. I just hope everyone has a good time doing this.

 Cheers!
 Russ


----------



## JamesL

Should I consider getting into this if I don't know very much about audio electronics? I can read basic schematics, have clean soldering skills, but know only the very basics of electricity.
 As it's sold pre-assembled, I'm hoping that there's little opportunities to mess up, but I might be wrong.

 For example, I'm still not entirely sure how sinusoids represent sound. my understanding is that it represents the voltage fluctuations of alternating current, with the ground plane serving as the base, frequency representing the pitch, and the amplitude.. I suppose affects the magnitude .. volume? I'm eager to learn, but without a proper physics course until I'm able to free up some course hours, I'm not sure where to start.


----------



## gugi100

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Russ White* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As an example of how well this short signal path works. I drive headphones from 32ohms to 600ohms directly from the IVY module. You can't get much more direct than that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It sounds fantastic._

 


 Russ, you mean you drive a 32ohms load with a lm4562? Or is it a different IVY module you are talking about?

 Greetings Gert-Jan


----------



## BrianDonegan

I think he is driving his phones balanced off the THS4131's. I am pretty sure he was powering the 650's off a Ballsie for a while though too, which would be from a 4562 (actually, LME49720).


----------



## FallenAngel

Quick little question; can I use balanced and unbalanced outputs from IVY without changing anything on the board and at the same time? So I wire up balanced and unbalanced outputs and connect both to my balanced and unbalanced amps respectively and I don't have to change anything, just turn on either amp, correct?

 And of course, another little question; approximately when will the next batch of boards be available?


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FallenAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Quick little question; can I use balanced and unbalanced outputs from IVY without changing anything on the board and at the same time? So I wire up balanced and unbalanced outputs and connect both to my balanced and unbalanced amps respectively and I don't have to change anything, just turn on either amp, correct?_

 

Yes.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FallenAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And of course, another little question; approximately when will the next batch of boards be available?_

 

In a few weeks.


----------



## FallenAngel

Thanks Brian, just what I wanted to hear. Oh, and my imaginary psychiatrist agrees completely with your signature


----------



## Russ White

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gugi100* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Russ, you mean you drive a 32ohms load with a lm4562? Or is it a different IVY module you are talking about?

 Greetings Gert-Jan_

 

With the THS4131. Of course you won't want to drive that 32 ohm load very hard, but it works much better than I had hoped even for those cans.


----------



## BrianDonegan

Well, somehow the concept of 2-day shipping is lost on the distributor, so the chips are going to take a week to get to me instead of 2 or 3 days requested, so I will not have them until Monday the 5th. I therefore will not be able to ship until at least Wednesday the 7th. Sorry.


----------



## dusfor99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JamesL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Should I consider getting into this if I don't know very much about audio electronics? I can read basic schematics, have clean soldering skills, but know only the very basics of electricity.
 As it's sold pre-assembled, I'm hoping that there's little opportunities to mess up, but I might be wrong.

 For example, I'm still not entirely sure how sinusoids represent sound. my understanding is that it represents the voltage fluctuations of alternating current, with the ground plane serving as the base, frequency representing the pitch, and the amplitude.. I suppose affects the magnitude .. volume? I'm eager to learn, but without a proper physics course until I'm able to free up some course hours, I'm not sure where to start._

 

Hi James,

 We all start somewhere, being eager to learn is the best quality you need in my opinion. Anyways, just a little somehting about sine waves, current and such.

 The sinne wave is as you pointed out, it represets the instantaneous fluctiuations a DAC or AMP will preset. This voltage fluctuation, when driving into some load like a speaker, will cause a current to flow. Without going too deep, the current is proportional to the voltage applied across the speaker. (The more knowledgeable, please dont flame me, im assuming the case of resistive load only, to get the basica idea across) The equation is V = IR, where V is the votlage from the DAC (or AMP) and I is the current that the DAC or AMP is driving through the load R. The ground plane is simply the viewing point where your measuring the voltage from. all the current the DAC or AMP pushes (or pulls) through the load uses the ground plane as its return path, back to the power supply. 

 Frequency is the pitch of the sine wave.
 Volume is proportional to the amplitude of the sine wave.

 Music is really made up of a bunch of sinewaves at different amplitudes, frequencies and phases. (lets not go into this one for now)

 But hopefully that is enough to get a handle on things. Oh and by the way, like you mentioned, the current/voltage are AC signals, which means they change directions. Anyone trying to sell you wires (or cables) with arrows on them saying they need to be installed a certain way, well,........ what can I say,......BS, comes to mind.

 Dustin


----------



## Gautama

Heh, you don't need to know squat to build this stuff. Solder this there, this here, and then the casework!


----------



## dusfor99

“ESS requires NDA for the datasheet of Sabre DAC for the following reasons:

 1. Although we are shipping chips, the datasheet is not yet complete. We do not want to have preliminary information public. 

 2. NDA is also a way to keep track of who has datasheet (and revision number). An update of the data sheet is in progress. We expect to release this update to all who has signed a NDA and received datasheet.” 

 Thanks

 Dustin


----------



## Filburt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Russ White* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With the THS4131. Of course you won't want to drive that 32 ohm load very hard, but it works much better than I had hoped even for those cans._

 

Russ,

 Have you considered changing IVY to use single-channel op-amps for summing after the THS4131? I ask because I'd _much_ rather use some of what's available in only single channel than the LM4562/LME49720, which, at least in my opinion, mostly only serves as a decent alternative to the NE5532 rather than the best option for audio.


----------



## Russ White

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Filburt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Russ,

 Have you considered changing IVY to use single-channel op-amps for summing after the THS4131? I ask because I'd _much_ rather use some of what's available in only single channel than the LM4562/LME49720, which, at least in my opinion, mostly only serves as a decent alternative to the NE5532 rather than the best option for audio._

 

You and I will simply disagree on the assessment of the device. First, I can say your opinion is not the same as mine in the least, nor that of any of the engineers or users I respect most. I did not pick that part haphazardly. I have many many hours listening and measuring that op amp and others, and made a choice accordingly. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As a practical matter single op amps simply would not fit as well on the board so I did not use them, form factor was a design choice.

 Now here is the great news for you! If you really feel like it you can omit the BAL/SE section altogether on the IVY and roll your own. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 How cool is that! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Or you can drop in any other dual you like. AD8620 works very well as do others. the new dual JFET opamp from TI also sounds great! I forget the name of it.

 You could even just pop a transformer on the balanced outputs for SE output. A few have done this.

 Cheers!
 Russ


----------



## fierce_freak

Let me know if you remember the name of the new TI part. Just curious.


----------



## Russ White

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fierce_freak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Let me know if you remember the name of the new TI part. Just curious._

 

Its the OPA2827. Still in preview, but sounds great!

http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/opa827.pdf


----------



## Russ White

This part also looks excellent, but I have not got it in the IVY to test yet.

http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/opa2211.pdf


----------



## Nebby

My IVY and two other boards came in yesterday, can't wait to put it together when I have time!


----------



## Gautama

To go back a few pages, how do you control the amount of digital attenuation? Is there a pot on the board somewhere?


----------



## Russ White

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gautama* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To go back a few pages, how do you control the amount of digital attenuation? Is there a pot on the board somewhere?_

 

Exactly, a 2K-5K pot which has its wiper connected to an ADC channel on the microcontroller. The ADC gives me an 8 bit value which I send to the DAC when the value changes from the previous state.

 Its very simple, but effective, and cheap. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Cheers!
 Russ


----------



## Russ White

Here is a link to some source code for the inquisitive. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




diyAudio Forums - ESS Sabre Reference DAC (8-channel)


----------



## Vladco

Another question about I/V stage. Did you test THS4032? 
 Also I don’t have balanced gear yet so which parts should I use or could omit on IVY? 
 Did you hear any difference in sound with different chips and voltages? Which ones you tests successfully and which doesn’t work good enough in IVY.
 Also could you provide a little insight in digital volume control? How good attenuation it could provide and what is workable range of attenuation: 1 –100%, or 50-100% (like SB)? Do we need to get extra parts or every thing is provided in dac kit?
 Of cause it will be yours subjective opinion.
 You answers will be appreciated.
 Vlad


----------



## Russ White

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Vladco* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Another question about I/V stage. Did you test THS4032? 
 Also I don’t have balanced gear yet so which parts should I use or could omit on IVY? 
 Did you hear any difference in sound with different chips and voltages? Which ones you tests successfully and which doesn’t work good enough in IVY.
 Also could you provide a little insight in digital volume control? How good attenuation it could provide and what is workable range of attenuation: 1 –100%, or 50-100% (like SB)? Do we need to get extra parts or every thing is provided in dac kit?
 Of cause it will be yours subjective opinion.
 You answers will be appreciated.
 Vlad_

 

Hello,

 You would want to use all the parts on IVY. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The THS4032 is a solid choice. I have used it, it is quite good. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't really have a list of opamps not to try. Almost any decent dual opamp will work fine. I would actually tend to prefer good bipolar input types to FET input types. That may just be a personal bias. That said I do like the newer JFET devices from TI, and I would never say the AD8620 is bad. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I setup my volume control so that the minimum volume was at 50% attenuation (63.5db). This so that I had more pot travel to play with. I have no interest in listening to music at - 70db 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Still the very best performance I personally have heard so far out of the IVY has been out of the LME49720/LM4562. It simply is very well suited to the task. yet there is no denying there exists a wide range of op amps which would work, and you may prefer a part I have not even tried yet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cheers!
 Russ


----------



## Russ White

As a side note, I was so happy with the THS4031/4032 that I cloned it as a discrete headphone amp at one point. You can read about it here:

diyAudio Forums - Diamante -a discrete medium power opamp

 I still use that amp at work all the time, very nice. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cheers!
 Russ


----------



## Evetsfrance

Russ,
 Would the Buffalo be directly swappable with the original RAKK DAC which uses a transformer as the I2V converter?
 RAKK have upgraded their DAC but yours sounds a more interesting proposition in terms of VFM.
 Any news on replacement stocks? Seems like you need to make a few hundred to satisfy demand.
 Steve


----------



## Russ White

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Evetsfrance* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Russ,
 Would the Buffalo be directly swappable with the original RAKK DAC which uses a transformer as the I2V converter?
 RAKK have upgraded their DAC but yours sounds a more interesting proposition in terms of VFM.
 Any news on replacement stocks? Seems like you need to make a few hundred to satisfy demand.
 Steve_

 

Hi Steve,

 I am not really familiar with the RAKK DAC or the transformer they are using for I/V conversion, so I can't say if it will work or not. I suspect it will, but I just don't know. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Cheers!
 Russ


----------



## Evetsfrance

Sorry, Russ - I should have given you the info but assumed you'd know the beast.
 The transfo is a Lundahl LL9206 1+1 in to 10+10 out with 4K3 across the secondaries which are in series.
 The primaries are balanced centre tap to ground.
 Does that make sense?

 Thanks
 Steve


----------



## Russ White

Hi Steve, I think it would work, but I don't have one to test. You may need to adjust the R to get to 2VRMs. As it is the signal looks like it will be a bit hot. 

 I may not be the best person to answer as I generally don't prefer transformer I/V. So if anyone knows better than me please chime in.

 Cheers!
 Russ


----------



## Evetsfrance

Thanks Russ,
 As I understand it your kit can be configured to give a voltage o/p so perhaps I can dispense with the transformer.
 How well does the DAC cope with the dreaded end-of-track pop?
 Any news on when you might be able to get some more boards on the go?

 All the best,
 Steve


----------



## Russ White

Hi Steve,

 yes you can use the DAc voltage output no problem, the next stage should have an impedance of > 2K or so to be effective. There will be a DC offset of 1.65V at each output, so you will need to account for that.

 I have never seen any end of track pop at all from Buffalo.

 Well the boards will be here soon (next day or two). But it takes some time to get the modules built and tested.

 Cheers!
 Russ


----------



## Evetsfrance

Thanks Russ,
 Please can I go on the 'want one' list?
 I've registered on the Twisted Pear site.
 Incidentally if you press the 'Register' button with email blank the site collapses with a 'Potentially Dangerous Action' exception. Sorry..
 Steve


----------



## mmerrill99

Hi Russ,
 I posted this over at the other place but didn't hear back - Would this DAC + IVY have sufficient drive for a 600 ohm input transformer fronting a Zeus Amplifier?

 John


----------



## Russ White

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jkeny* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Russ,
 I posted this over at the other place but didn't hear back - Would this DAC + IVY have sufficient drive for a 600 ohm input transformer fronting a Zeus Amplifier?

 John_

 

Sorry I must have missed it. Busy weekend. Yes, a 600 ohm load should be no problem for the IVY.

 Cheers!
 Russ


----------



## j4cbo

What's the typical current draw look like?


----------



## Henmyr

Would the buffalo and opus be concidered very easy to build? I have not even built a cmoy before, would I be able to build the buffalo or opus without too much trouble? I'm good at building with LEGO, so that is my reference
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 EDIT:

 And what would the price be without casework for the opus? For the buffalo? This is with everything except casework.


----------



## akione

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henmyr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would the buffalo and opus be concidered very easy to build? I have not even built a cmoy before, would I be able to build the buffalo or opus without too much trouble? I'm good at building with LEGO, so that is my reference
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 EDIT:

 And what would the price be without casework for the opus? For the buffalo? This is with everything except casework._

 

You will need basic soldering skills and the ability to recognize components and their polarities. 
 Most of the soldering is in building the power supplies. 
 You also will need some knowledge of electric circuits.

 The minimum you need for an Opus is; 
 1 x receiver board, either USB or S/PDIF. 
 1 x DAC board and 
 1 x Dual Power Supply. 
 You can expand on this by adding other boards as required. 

 The Buffalo is probably more cost effective.

 Prices are on the Twisted Pear site.

 Hope that helps as a starter.


----------



## Russ White

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *j4cbo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What's the typical current draw look like?_

 

For the buffalo around 150ma at VD. With a Wm8804 module also sharing VD I get 170ma.

 For Buffalo VA about 60ma.

 IVY current draw will depend on load and configuration. Mine at idle connect to a running Buffalo: V+(15V) is 40ma V-(15V) is 50ma.

 Cheers!
 Russ


----------



## SACD-Man

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *akione* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You will need basic soldering skills and the ability to recognize components and their polarities. 
 Most of the soldering is in building the power supplies. 
 You also will need some knowledge of electric circuits.

 The minimum you need for an Opus is; 
 1 x receiver board, either USB or S/PDIF. 
 1 x DAC board and 
 1 x Dual Power Supply. 
 You can expand on this by adding other boards as required. 

 The Buffalo is probably more cost effective.

 Prices are on the Twisted Pear site.

 Hope that helps as a starter. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks for the info!!


----------



## indikator

so opus got little brother here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, got some questions

 it is said that Sabre already got ASRC, will adding Metronome module making any improvement to this DAC?
 what are IC2 and IC3 doing?
 from USB, which is preferred, I2S or SPDIF?
 is this design final already? if so, can't wait to get one....


----------



## johnsonad

Russ/ Brian, I've sent a couple of emails to your site mail addy with no response in the last couple of weeks. Is it me the site or just back logged? Thanks!


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnsonad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Russ/ Brian, I've sent a couple of emails to your site mail addy with no response in the last couple of weeks. Is it me the site or just back logged? Thanks!_

 

Just backlogged. We are nearing a major release date at work (day job) and my wife has been under the weather, so I have been doing triple duty this past week.

 Working on the backlog now.


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


 it is said that Sabre already got ASRC, will adding Metronome module making any improvement to this DAC? 
 

No.

  Quote:


 what are IC2 and IC3 doing? 
 

IC2 is a comparator for the S/PDIF input. IC3 is a buffer for the analog supply.

  Quote:


 from USB, which is preferred, I2S or SPDIF? 
 

You can use either, but I would use I2S.

  Quote:


 is this design final already? 
 

Yes.

  Quote:


 if so, can't wait to get one.... 
 

Soon. We are currently getting between 5 and 20 emails per day about it. Boards have arrived and chips are about to arrive. I am now trying to figure out the best way to meet demand without getting a divorce 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## johnsonad

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just backlogged. We are nearing a major release date at work (day job) and my wife has been under the weather, so I have been doing triple duty this past week.

 Working on the backlog now._

 

Thanks Brian, I appreciate what you do for the community


----------



## Eokboy

I see Twisted Pear offering the PCB. Is it possible for me to get my grubby hands on the PIC hex code and BoM/stuffing guide? And where can I get the ES9008?


----------



## rodentmacbeastie

Well, I am back from solitary confinement... I apologize to those who did not get my humour. I was merely stating that the boys at Twisted Pear should be allowed to use a few qualatative terms to describe their baby and I said it in a colourful way so please relax. Second, I was not banned for what was written in this thread. I was banned for a post in the general discussion forum that was about the state of world affairs. OK?

 On to the Buffalo! 

 Russ and Brian,

 I am dying to get my hands on a Buffalo. I have decided to go with the DAC and feed it an I2S signal from a computer and DSD from a Denon player. As you had suggested, I will tap a wire on the "SACD" light to switch from I2S using an OTTO. The DAC will be used as a voltage DAC for a while as I still have my heart set on building a tube based I/V stage. I am building a balanced 24v Aikido(SE version first) and would love to know what you think about using tubes in place of the IVY? If I was to build a tube based current amp to amplify the current output of the DAC and then a simple passive resistor for I/V conversion. Would this work, or might it be better sounding than amplifying voltage? My understanding is that if I increase the amount of current the DAC generates by use of a tubed(or fet) current amplifier, then using a passive resistor for I/V conversion should result in enough voltage swing. Sound right?


----------



## pabbi1

No updates?


----------



## BrianDonegan

There was a bit of a mixup with the chips. ESS sent me a batch that was not vapor sealed (they are moisture sensitive), but they are sending new ones, so I am just waiting at the moment. I should know tomorrow when the replacements will be here.


----------



## johnsonad

Soon, very soon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I've got a case and parts ready to go 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Any impressions from the 20 or so people that have them already? I know Nebby is busy in the sandbox at the moment. How about the other 19?


----------



## Beefy

After a significant amount of research I'm pretty much set on the idea that a Sabre DAC will be my next DIY project. Yes, it must be exciting for you all, but you'll have to wait until later for autographs. Anyway, I've done as much reading as my poor little brain could manage without exploding but still have a couple of minor questions - mostly around the power power supply.

 I intend to use the LCDPS and LCBPS and was thinking of using two 15VA 15+15 that Twisted Pear sells for convenience. But to get the 5VDC and 6.6VDC for the Sabre, that is a BIG voltage drop across the regulator considering the voltage coming from the toroid.... more than the drop when normally used at 7.5VDC for the Opus. Are those toroids still OK?

 I would like to add a TOSLINK module and a DPDT switch to be able to use both TOSLINK and coax. No problems there, but I was hoping to power the TOSLINK module from the same LCDPS. Is this OK? Would it be better to tap the supplies for the digital or analogue section?

 Lastly, I assume the IVY tune-up will be completed and shipped in the correct config to get the most out of this kit?

 Cheers for the help folks! My money is sitting here ready to go, and it is all down to who can refresh the Twisted Pear site at just the right time to place an order........ let the games begin!


----------



## Russ White

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After a significant amount of research I'm pretty much set on the idea that a Sabre DAC will be my next DIY project. Yes, it must be exciting for you all, but you'll have to wait until later for autographs. Anyway, I've done as much reading as my poor little brain could manage without exploding but still have a couple of minor questions - mostly around the power power supply.

 1) I intend to use the LCDPS and LCBPS and was thinking of using two 15VA 15+15 that Twisted Pear sells for convenience. But to get the 5VDC and 6.6VDC for the Sabre, that is a BIG voltage drop across the regulator considering the voltage coming from the toroid.... more than the drop when normally used at 7.5VDC for the Opus. Are those toroids still OK?

 2) I would like to add a TOSLINK module and a DPDT switch to be able to use both TOSLINK and coax. No problems there, but I was hoping to power the TOSLINK module from the same LCDPS. Is this OK? Would it be better to tap the supplies for the digital or analogue section?

 3)Lastly, I assume the IVY tune-up will be completed and shipped in the correct config to get the most out of this kit?

 Cheers for the help folks! My money is sitting here ready to go, and it is all down to who can refresh the Twisted Pear site at just the right time to place an order........ let the games begin! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hi Beefy,

 1) Yes its just fine. We have actually revised the power supply numbers a bit. Buffalo. I would suggest 7-9V for both VA and VD.

 2) Sure powering the TOSLINK module from the same supply as you use for the buffalo VD supply should work just fine.

 3) Yes, we ordered some new IVY PCBs which implement the latest recommended filtering approach. they should be here by the time we are ready to start shipping the next herd of buffaloes.

 We apologize for the wait. But this is a brand new chip with lot of lessons to be learn on how to get the IVY dialed in to our liking. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also we have had some supply issues with ESS failing to send sealed parts etc... Joy Joy.

 In the end I hope you agree It will be worth the wait.

 Cheers!
 Russ


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Russ White* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Beefy....

 ..... We apologize for the wait._

 

Thanks for the prompt reply, Russ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 No problems *at all* with the wait... even if I do miss out on this next round of boards. You guys are doing fantastic work for the DIY community!


----------



## Clutz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Russ White* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_We apologize for the wait. But this is a brand new chip with lot of lessons to be learn on how to get the IVY dialed in to our liking. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also we have had some supply issues with ESS failing to send sealed parts etc... Joy Joy._

 

If the chips are that sensitive that being shipped with a broken vapor barrier damages them, how can they ever be operated outside that vapor barrier? I perhaps am incorrectly assuming that the vapor barrier is a sonically welded plastic bag that the chips in the trays are placed in, and not something done to the chips themselves?

 Cheers,
 Brad


----------



## BrianDonegan

The problem with moisture is only when you heat the chips, such as in the reflow oven. any moisture that the chip has absorbed expands and can kill the chip. They need to be "baked" at 110C for 4 hours to remove moisture before reflowing (or any high heat exposure). this is part of the reason I am hesitant to sell kits, as it is not unlikely that a good chip will be killed when mounting it if it has not been properly baked. I also want to be sure people get a working module, as the chips are not exactly cheap.

 I should add that this is only a problem for us because I was looking at having an assembly house build some boards for us to help meet demand. I got a great price from one place, but they don't do baking. Another place does the baking, but the per board charge is twice as much, and I want to keep the price as low as possible. My current plan, however, is to just start building and make them available as I can. I will try the outsourcing later, when ESS can supply the sealed chips.


----------



## fierce_freak

The Buffalo is awesome and a clear step up from the WM8740 Opus for me, but it looks like Russ has mentioned in the thread on the other site that he can't choose a favorite between the Buffalo and the WM8741 Opus. Did the upgrade to WM8741 make that "big" of a difference?


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fierce_freak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Buffalo is awesome and a clear step up from the WM8740 Opus for me, but it looks like Russ has mentioned in the thread on the other site that he can't choose a favorite between the Buffalo and the WM8741 Opus. Did the upgrade to WM8741 make that "big" of a difference?_

 

I hope so cause I've got an Opus on the way!


----------



## Russ White

In a word, yes. The WM8741 sounds very different to me from WM8740 I think the new filter (especially response #2) is the real reason. Its a completely new beast. Not simply a reworked WM8740. The only thing it really seems to share is the pin out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Where you can really hear the difference is in high def (192khz 24bit) content. Where the WM8740 seems most happy at around 96khz the WM8741 happily extends to 192khz.

 Now I would not say its any better than the ESS chip, its certainly much much closer than one would expect.

 What I think is great, is that it is so simple to get wonderful sound out of it. No heavy duty analog filtering required. This chip does its own analog filtering at a frequency calculated to help remove quantization noise.

 To be honest I was really peeved with Wolfson for taking so long to get us the chip. But now I am very happy we can get it.

 Cheers!
 Russ


----------



## fierce_freak

Thanks Russ. I figured it must have been somewhat more than an incremental update, and it's good to hear that the filters have been so improved.


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Russ White* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now I would not say its any better than the ESS chip, its certainly much much closer than one would expect._

 

Good to know that I can 'resort' to the Opus if I get desperate 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The desirability of the Sabre though is the integration...... no need for receivers, Metronome etc. Some people might like the ability to customise; I just want something easy, regardless of cost


----------



## penger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Russ White* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In a word, yes. The WM8741 sounds very different to me from WM8740 I think the new filter (especially response #2) is the real reason. Its a completely new beast. Not simply a reworked WM8740. The only thing it really seems to share is the pin out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Where you can really hear the difference is in high def (192khz 24bit) content. Where the WM8740 seems most happy at around 96khz the WM8741 happily extends to 192khz.

 Now I would not say its any better than the ESS chip, its certainly much much closer than one would expect.

 What I think is great, is that it is so simple to get wonderful sound out of it. No heavy duty analog filtering required. This chip does its own analog filtering at a frequency calculated to help remove quantization noise.

 To be honest I was really peeved with Wolfson for taking so long to get us the chip. But now I am very happy we can get it.

 Cheers!
 Russ_

 

Would it still be wise to put the WM8741 through the Metronome?


----------



## Russ White

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *penger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would it still be wise to put the WM8741 through the Metronome?_

 

Yes, I definitely like it in there.

 I have only taken the metronome out when I have listened to 192K material.

 Cheers!
 Russ


----------



## Russ White

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The desirability of the Sabre though is the integration...... no need for receivers, Metronome etc. Some people might like the ability to customise; I just want something easy, regardless of cost 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

This is a good point. There are some benefits and compromises to each approach.

 This is why I am glad I can listen to both, and don't have to choose! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Kidding aside. They do sound differently. Though I struggle to try to describe it.

 Cheers!
 Russ


----------



## rodentmacbeastie

Russ,

 Could you tell us what the key sonic differences are btween the Buffalo and the Opus WM8471? My plans started with the Opus in Novemeber. The Buffalo with a Pass D1 I/V with no feedback and converted to SE is the current plan. How is the volume control in the new Wolfson? How is it in SE? The key reason I want the Buffalo is the dynamics. The other important reasons are the volume control, voltage or current out, DSD friendly, S/PDIF, no need for a clock upgrade... The Wolfson gets points for being cheaper but it will only stay less expensive if the volume control is good, has no need for a clock upgrade, if it sounds great in SE from the DAC itself(no buffer), and if I only use I2S or DSD. As soon as I must add a S/PDIF module, clock, attenuator and buffer, the Buffalo becomes a steal of a deal!


----------



## Beefy

General question for all takers...... what do you think my chances are of fitting a Buffalo DAC and all associated paraphernalia in a ventilated 1U rackmount enclosure, with 1.5" (38mm) internal height?

 I'm looking at 34.5mm high encapsulated transformers, which should _just_ have enough room for a mounting bolt.

 LCBPS/LCDPS look like they have 1" H/S, so should fit on 0.25" stand-offs with a little room to spare. Buffalo and IVY can be mounted next to each other. TOSLINK modules doesn't look higher than 1.25". Darwin selector isn't too large.

 If I decide to go for an ε24 power switch, the associated σ24 transformer is just 24mm high, so should also fit on 0.25" stand-offs. The problem may be fitting a sufficiently large relay.

 Thoughts? Am I forgetting something that may cause problems


----------



## MrMajestic2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_General question for all takers...... what do you think my chances are of fitting a Buffalo DAC and all associated paraphernalia in a ventilated 1U rackmount enclosure, with 1.5" (38mm) internal height?

 I'm looking at 34.5mm high encapsulated transformers, which should just have enough room for a mounting bolt.

 LCBPS/LCDPS look like they have 1" H/S, so should fit on 0.25" stand-offs with a little room to spare. Buffalo and IVY can be mounted next to each other. TOSLINK modules doesn't look higher than 1.25". Darwin selector isn't too large.

 If I decide to go for an ε24 power switch, the associated σ24 transformer is just 24mm high, so should also fit on 0.25" stand-offs. The problem may be fitting a sufficiently large relay.

 Thoughts? Am I forgetting something that may cause problems 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I have my Opus DAC fitted in a 1U case from Hifi2000 without a problem. I have some modules stacked as well. The SSR might be a problem though, but I dont use one for mine.


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrMajestic2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have my Opus DAC fitted in a 1U case_

 

Cheers! This will simplify my casework a LOT, by not having to worry about separate chassis and umbilicals. Even when I count the cost of encapsulated transformers, it is cheaper too!

  Quote:


 The SSR might be a problem though, but I dont use one for mine. 
 

Yeah, I'm really not sure about relay power switching yet - I really just want it for the 'romantic' nature. The rest of me doesn't want the extra expense considering it would mean yet another hit of international shipping.... and if I am buying from AMB, I might as well buy B22 boards...... it will all just spiral out of control!


----------



## akione

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_....Yeah, I'm really not sure about relay power switching yet - I really just want it for the 'romantic' nature. The rest of me doesn't want the extra expense considering it would mean yet another hit of international shipping.... and if I am buying from AMB, I might as well buy B22 boards...... it will all just spiral out of control! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The relay switching is great. I did mine with flip-flops, but I have used a similar circuit to Ti's as well, with good results. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I haven't really studied Ti's board, but I can't imagine a relay being so big as not to fit that case. You won't need a huge thing for this.


----------



## MrMajestic2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, I'm really not sure about relay power switching yet - I really just want it for the 'romantic' nature. The rest of me doesn't want the extra expense considering it would mean yet another hit of international shipping.... and if I am buying from AMB, I might as well buy B22 boards...... it will all just spiral out of control! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Oh yeah, that happens to me all the time. Ordering things just because Im ordering something else from the same supplier. I have droves of stuff to build now


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *akione* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_but I can't imagine a relay being so big as not to fit that case. You won't need a huge thing for this._

 

I'm sure I could fit it in, but have decided against it to spread my budget into other areas.

 In particular, I have decided to put some XLR outputs in - even though I have no equipment that can use them. Now I know absolutely nothing about XLR connections..... so can somebody please confirm that these Amphenol models would do the job? Altronics - Your One Stop Electronics Shop
 Or perhaps the Neutrik equivalent? Altronics - Your One Stop Electronics Shop

 [EDIT] Oh, and can anybody recommend a nice push button switch to go along with an OTTO? I've decided that a Darwin is just overkill, and will be too messy for me to put LEDs on the front panel.


----------



## MrMajestic2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm sure I could fit it in, but have decided against it to spread my budget into other areas.

 In particular, I have decided to put some XLR outputs in - even though I have no equipment that can use them. Now I know absolutely nothing about XLR connections..... so can somebody please confirm that these Amphenol models would do the job? Altronics - Your One Stop Electronics Shop
 Or perhaps the Neutrik equivalent? Altronics - Your One Stop Electronics Shop

 [EDIT] Oh, and can anybody recommend a nice push button switch to go along with an OTTO? I've decided that a Darwin is just overkill, and will be too messy for me to put LEDs on the front panel._

 


 Yes, the amphenol would work great. I didnt even know they made XLRs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I just use a regular toggle switch from Apem (Series 5000) but they make nice pushswitches as well (series 8000).


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrMajestic2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, the amphenol would work great. I didnt even know they made XLRs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It seems they make just about every type of connector under the sun 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 I just use a regular toggle switch from Apem (Series 5000) but they make nice pushswitches as well (series 8000). 
 

I actually found these _really_ nice latching switches in stock at Farnell, which is where I will be getting most of my other gear: BULGIN | MP0045/3E0NN000. Pricey, but I think they will look pretty awesome on the front panel.


----------



## hegestratos

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I actually found these really nice latching switches in stock at Farnell, which is where I will be getting most of my other gear: BULGIN | MP0045/3E0NN000. Pricey, but I think they will look pretty awesome on the front panel._

 

Those do look really nice on a front panel. I bought some Bulgin knock-offs on ebay, cheaper but still decent quality. I have one left for a preamp power switch, so I'll need to get another one once I get around to a DAC.


----------



## tjohnusa

Will this thing stop working during the playoffs?


----------



## Beefy

Bah! I'm so bummed. I put in my Farnell order last night, and drive round to a couple of local shops today to get the XLR connectors, standoffs, fuses, LEDs, case feet and the case itself.

 But the case is out of stock until July 18. Now I have no DIY project to keep me busy this weekend!


----------



## luvdunhill

any idea how small of an enclosure you could cram a buffalo into?


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *luvdunhill* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_any idea how small of an enclosure you could cram a buffalo into? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Is that a genuine question, or just prompting me to try something smaller? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've seen Brian's OPUS layout that puts everything into a single Hammond 1455T2201...... but that was only possible since he was running a single LCDPS from one transformer, and driving the XLR outputs direct from the OPUS board. But I absolutely need unbalanced and don't want to sacrifice any performance by running the Buffalo in voltage output, so at a minimum I need two power supplies and two boards.

 Now I probably still don't need a 19" wide case for this...... but my rationale is that I can also buy 2U and 3U models in the exact same footprint which will easily fit a 3 or 4 channel B22.


----------



## rodentmacbeastie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *luvdunhill* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_any idea how small of an enclosure you could cram a buffalo into? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 


 I think you could fit one in a horse trailer, well a small Buffalo though...


----------



## JamesL

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is that a genuine question, or just prompting me to try something smaller? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've seen Brian's OPUS layout that puts everything into a single Hammond 1455T2201...... but that was only possible since he was running a single LCDPS from one transformer, and driving the XLR outputs direct from the OPUS board. But I absolutely need unbalanced and don't want to sacrifice any performance by running the Buffalo in voltage output, so at a minimum I need two power supplies and two boards.

 Now I probably still don't need a 19" wide case for this...... but my rationale is that I can also buy 2U and 3U models in the exact same footprint which will easily fit a 3 or 4 channel B22._

 

I was wondering the same thing. A rack unit just seems un-necessarily big for a project like this. Can any one clue me in on what a fair amount of distance is, when placing the transformer and psu boards in the case?.. if at all?


----------



## johnsonad

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JamesL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was wondering the same thing. A rack unit just seems un-necessarily big for a project like this. Can any one clue me in on what a fair amount of distance is, when placing the transformer and psu boards in the case?.. if at all?_

 

The PS boards are not the issue. You want the power runs to be short and strait if you can. The transformers can be an issue but anything >4 inches will help. Some people here have had issues with the distance or even position but you may want to try it for yourself. You could also do an external PSU.


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JamesL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A rack unit just seems un-necessarily big for a project like this._

 

The rack unit I am looking at is only 250mm deep, not full size. And being only 1U, it will sit very nicely under my MMM and σ11 without getting in the way at all.

 And like I said, if I ever build a β22, it will be perfect to just stack the same case in 2U form right on top.

  Quote:


 Can any one clue me in on what a fair amount of distance is, when placing the transformer and psu boards in the case?.. if at all? 
 

No idea.... but I plan on keeping the toroids as far away from the DAC chip as possible


----------



## BrianDonegan

You can place the transformer right against the input side of the power supply, and the power supply right against the power input side of the dac.


----------



## fran

Pre orders are now being accepted ....

 (ducks to avoid the stampede...)


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fran* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pre orders are now being accepted ....

 (ducks to avoid the stampede...)_

 

Ordered...... BAM!


----------



## johnsonad

I'm in


----------



## jantze

Finally got it


----------



## GeWa

Also placed my order yesterday!
 Would be a nice birthday present (07/25) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Regards


----------



## Russ White

Some of you may find this thread interesting:

diyAudio Forums - Haiku I/V Stage

 Cheers!
 Russ


----------



## rds

Will you have some Haikus available with the next run of Buffalo?


----------



## Russ White

I have just now designed the PCBs for it, and they will be ordered next week. As soon as they are tested we will offer them. That will probably be a month or so.

 Cheers!
 Russ


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


 That will probably be a month or so. 
 

At least


----------



## peterpan188

Russ,

 Couple questions, here it comes.

 You mentions previously that the buffalo kit can come unassembled. Do you have a estimate date of availability on it? How about the price. 

 Reading the manual, I am slightly confused about I2S input. Is it true that I have to rewrite the firmware to enable I2S input? I plan to combine the USB module along.

 This is kind of side track. For your Joshua Tree, is it possible to change the input impedance (I will need 1k)?

 Thanks for the great work!

 Peter


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *peterpan188* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Russ,

 Couple questions, here it comes.

 You mentions previously that the buffalo kit can come unassembled. Do you have a estimate date of availability on it? How about the price. 

 Reading the manual, I am slightly confused about I2S input. Is it true that I have to rewrite the firmware to enable I2S input? I plan to combine the USB module along.

 This is kind of side track. For your Joshua Tree, is it possible to change the input impedance (I will need 1k)?

 Thanks for the great work!

 Peter_

 

We don't currently have plans for an unassembled Buffalo. There are issues with the chip's moisture sensitivity. I also don't feel comfortable mounting just the chip and not being able to test it ($45 each chip).

 There is no programming required for I2S input. Just flip the S/PDIF inout switch (turn it off), select the desired mode with the dip switches (see manual for details), and attach BCK, LRCK, and Data and GND and you are ready to go.

 You can create any input/output impedance you want for the JT by customizing the resistor values. We will have a tool for calculating them at some point. 

 Why such a low input impedance?


----------



## rodentmacbeastie

Are there going to be moisture concerns after the DAC is assembled? I live in the jungle, very humid. Had no problems with any quality components yet, whereas mainstream DVD players and such cease to work after much shorter periods than when I lived in Canada. If this will be a concern, might have to go with the Opus.


----------



## Russ White

No, the moisture is only an issue when reflow soldering the boards during assembly. Its not an issue (beyond normal) after that.


----------



## peterpan188

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_We don't currently have plans for an unassembled Buffalo. There are issues with the chip's moisture sensitivity. I also don't feel comfortable mounting just the chip and not being able to test it ($45 each chip).

 There is no programming required for I2S input. Just flip the S/PDIF inout switch (turn it off), select the desired mode with the dip switches (see manual for details), and attach BCK, LRCK, and Data and GND and you are ready to go.

 You can create any input/output impedance you want for the JT by customizing the resistor values. We will have a tool for calculating them at some point. 

 Why such a low input impedance?_

 

Thanks Russ.

 Will you still have the pre-order anytime soon for the DAC? Can I place a pre-order for the attenuator as the same time?

 I am going to use the JT for my Aleph P1.7 at the output side, NP himself specifies 800ohms, so I will take 1k for the convenience.

 Thanks,
 Peter


----------



## Russ White

One other note, this issues has nothing in particular to do with the ESS Sabre chip. Almost any SMT IC is subject to the same issue, even the Wolfson chips


----------



## Russ White

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *peterpan188* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Russ.

 Will you still have the pre-order anytime soon for the DAC? Can I place a pre-order for the attenuator as the same time?

 I am going to use the JT for my Aleph P1.7 at the output side, NP himself specifies 800ohms, so I will take 1k for the convenience.

 Thanks,
 Peter_

 

here is no way to set a constant input impedance with the JT (at least not on its own). It will always vary. In its stock form it vary from about 2.5K to about 10K. The output impedance is constant at 750 ohms.

 I don't think the higher impedance would hurt the P1.7.

 Cheers!
 Russ


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


 Thanks Russ.

 Will you still have the pre-order anytime soon for the DAC? Can I place a pre-order for the attenuator as the same time?

 I am going to use the JT for my Aleph P1.7 at the output side, NP himself specifies 800ohms, so I will take 1k for the convenience. 
 

Your welcome Bob 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I will probably open up pre-orders again in about 2 weeks. Whether the JT will be available depends on how far along we are with coding/testing it.


----------



## naamanf

Teases


----------



## rodentmacbeastie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Russ White* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One other note, this issues has nothing in particular to do with the ESS Sabre chip. Almost any SMT IC is subject to the same issue, even the Wolfson chips 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 



 Good to hear.


----------



## jantze

I'm stuck with my Buffalo build and I would need some help from you guys.

 I already have the following parts on order:
 Buffalo DAC + IVY Active I/V Stage + Power Supplies Combination
 Opus USB Receiver Module
 2 X TOSLINK Optical Input Module Kit
 2 X Avel Lindberg Transformer

 I'm thinking of using the following case:
 All black Hi-Fi 2000 Slim line 1U w/ 10mm panel (40-435-280 mm / rack size) plus some milling and custom case work.

 Is that suitable case for buffalo DAC? I was hoping to find silver aluminum case, but I just didn't find anything better than all black Hi-Fi 2000 Slim line case.

 Second problem would be input switching. My plan is to have 2 x toslink, S/PDIF and USB input. First idea was to use Goldpoint selector switch or DACT CT3 audio selector switch, but that might be overkill. Any idea how to switch S/PDIF to Buffalo?

 Third problem would be output. I know that I can use balanced and SE at the same time, but I would like to have 2 or 3 SE outputs switched.

 And finally power filtering. What kind of filtering would be recommended?

 I'm trying to build the best Buffalo DAC for my needs (and future), and money is not a major object. I just need a bit of help to max out my buffalo DAC.

 And any recommendation towards beautiful knobs, switches, rca & xlr connectors would help me a lot. I think I might use neutrik chassis connectors, unless I find something more suitable. 

 I know that Brian has some new toys coming up for all of us, but in the mean time, please help me out a bit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh, and I might do some led indicators to power and inputs & outputs.

 After drooling over Ferrari's case works for a year, I'm definitely trying to build something similar


----------



## MrMajestic2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jantze* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm stuck with my Buffalo build and I would need some help from you guys.

 I already have the following parts on order:
 Buffalo DAC + IVY Active I/V Stage + Power Supplies Combination
 Opus USB Receiver Module
 2 X TOSLINK Optical Input Module Kit
 2 X Avel Lindberg Transformer

 I'm thinking of using the following case:
 All black Hi-Fi 2000 Slim line 1U w/ 10mm panel (40-435-280 mm / rack size) plus some milling and custom case work.

 Is that suitable case for buffalo DAC? I was hoping to find silver aluminum case, but I just didn't find anything better than all black Hi-Fi 2000 Slim line case._

 

I have my Opus inside the very same case:






 Lots of space there.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jantze* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Second problem would be input switching. My plan is to have 2 x toslink, S/PDIF and USB input. First idea was to use Goldpoint selector switch or DACT CT3 audio selector switch, but that might be overkill. Any idea how to switch S/PDIF to Buffalo?_

 

Twisted Pear has a solution for this coming up. Otherwise some kind of relay switch would work, like the Darwin.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jantze* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Third problem would be output. I know that I can use balanced and SE at the same time, but I would like to have 2 or 3 SE outputs switched._

 

Not sure why you would want to do this. Care to elaborate? 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jantze* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And finally power filtering. What kind of filtering would be recommended?_

 

I'll let someone else answer this. I dont use a filter in mine and it works fine. Maybe I hav good lines in my house 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jantze* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And any recommendation towards beautiful knobs, switches, rca & xlr connectors would help me a lot. I think I might use neutrik chassis connectors, unless I find something more suitable._

 

I use Hifi2000 knobs on all my builds. Ill leave it up to you if you find them beautiful, I like them at least 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Neutrik makes a wide selection if XLRs so thats what I use. RCAs is not Neutriks strong side, I think they just have two versions. I bought CMC RCAs from THLAudio and they are really sturdy and professional lookig. Plus they are cheap.


----------



## jantze

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrMajestic2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have my Opus inside the very same case:






 Lots of space there._

 

Looks good to me, I guess I'll go with that case then, unless someone shows me a better one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrMajestic2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Twisted Pear has a solution for this coming up. Otherwise some kind of relay switch would work, like the Darwin._

 

Brian told me about the upcoming solution, but let's see what happens. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrMajestic2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not sure why you would want to do this. Care to elaborate? _

 

To feed Woo Audio WA6 & Corda Opera, and you never know what happens in the future 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm just lazy. But after modding my WA6, I might go for tubes for my home theater or soon to be stereo system.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrMajestic2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll let someone else answer this. I dont use a filter in mine and it works fine. Maybe I hav good lines in my house 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm still not sure do I even want to have a power filtering, but many builder use some kind of filtering, and I thought that I could look in to it.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrMajestic2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I use Hifi2000 knobs on all my builds. Ill leave it up to you if you find them beautiful, I like them at least 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Neutrik makes a wide selection if XLRs so thats what I use. RCAs is not Neutriks strong side, I think they just have two versions. I bought CMC RCAs from THLAudio and they are really sturdy and professional lookig. Plus they are cheap._

 

My initial idea was to use the same chassis on xlr & rca, but it seems that I'll run out of space. I guess I just use some other RCA's.

 Thank you for you input, I have been lurking for too long and I have too many ideas how to complete my build. Just trying to find the proper parts and the right case to finish this before Christmas


----------



## rodentmacbeastie

Space for all those connectors will be an issue. I have gone through the cable space and cost issue and can honestly say that NO connector is the best connector. I found better results with good quality termination blocks or even better is soldered directly to the switches. My preamps always look like an octopuss, but I save huge dollars in sound degrading connectors. If you don't want to direct wire them to your amps, you can use half as many connectors and have no problems for space on the direct wired preamp. I prefer by a large margin the open detailed sound that I get when my goodies are wired point to point. I notice enough of a difference in sound that it felt right to put all that money I saved into albums instead of $35/set of 4 RCA of any quality.

 I loved the sound SOOOO much, I sold everything except the cans and I am starting fresh. Two boxes will house power suppplies in one and a DAC/preamp/HTPC/SACD transport/headamp/active Xover/2-FirstWatt amps in the second case. If I build these as seperate components I would need a cable for the S/PDIF from the computer and SACD(not true DSD now), pair of IC's for the DAC=>preamp, one set to the HP amp, and three sets for the crossover and two speaker amps. That is two digital cables and five RCA IC's. Figure in that if I DIY these I need 4, 75ohm male connectors for the digital at a cost of around $35. I need 5 sets of male RCA's at $35/set for another $175. I am at $210 and I still need females for the DAC/preamp/xover/amps so basically double it. I would have now spent $410 plus shipping on connectors which degrade the sound and will not let me run pure DSD and I2S to the DAC for another step down in SQ. I will also need about 20% as much wire since it is all internal.

 Now I see that this is not that practical for ease of removal of cables(termination blocks are easy), but it is hard to argue that it is nice to get paid for better sound. In your situation you could run three permanent preamp lines with RCA's and XLR's to connect to the amps on their end. Same goes for the sources. I would also consider removing the female RCA's on the commercial gear as well and point to point the whole thing. It really does sound a whole lot better.


----------



## Beefy

This thread has gone a bit quiet, so I thought I'd revive it since I know that a whole heap of Buffalo boards were shipped over the weekend. I'm keen to show off the progress on my all-but-finished casework prior to the arrival of my gear, as well as hear back from what others are doing with their builds......

 I went with the Buffalo, IVY and power supplies combo and I also bought an additional LCDPS to power all the accessories and LEDs. Key accessories are a TOSLINK module and an OTTO which will perform SPDIF switching. The OTTO will be controlled by a Bulgin latched switch on the front panel. The LEDs on the front panel will also be switched by the OTTO.

 Power comes in and is DPDT switched at the back by an all-in-one filtered and double fused IEC receptacle. The two transformers are 15VA 2x0-15V that are currently putting out 18.1 VAC unloaded. RCA jacks are from Neutrik, XLR connectors are from Amphenol.

 The case is a 1U rack mount from Altronics. The front and rear panels are aluminium, and the sides and base are very tough steel... drilling the base has been a very steep learning curve! The case feet are from Jaycar.

 Some pics:


















 So speak up, Buffalo builders...... let us all know what you've been up to!


----------



## Russ White

Nice case Beefy!!!

 That's going to be sweeeeeet.

 How are things fitting vertically?

 Cheers!
 Russ


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Russ White* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice case Beefy!!!_

 

It was only ~US$40, and is built like a _tank_.

  Quote:


 How are things fitting vertically? 
 

Modules probably won't stack; interior height is only 38mm. But I should have enough room to put the Buffalo and IVY end-on-end at the right hand side of the case.

 But crap..... please don't tell me the PSU heatsinks are higher than 1"...... that would really dampen my spirits!


----------



## MrMajestic2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It was only ~US$40, and is built like a tank.



 Modules probably won't stack; interior height is only 38mm. But I should have enough room to put the Buffalo and IVY end-on-end at the right hand side of the case.

 But crap..... please don't tell me the PSU heatsinks are higher than 1"...... that would really dampen my spirits! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You can stack modules if you use 5mm standoffs. The PSUs will fit on the same standoffs, they did in my Opus.


----------



## Russ White

Do you mind if I ask for a link? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well the heatsinks can actually be gotten in shorter sizes (I think 3/4" for sure). Then you would need to use very short spacers to mount the PS PCBs. Its definitely doable, but I can't remember if the HS Brian sends are 1" or 3/4".

 Cheers!
 Russ


----------



## MrMajestic2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Russ White* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you mind if I ask for a link? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well the heatsinks can actually be gotten in shorter sizes (I think 3/4" for sure). Then you would need to use very short spacers to mount the PS PCBs. Its definitely doable, but I can't remember if the HS Brian sends are 1" or 3/4".

 Cheers!
 Russ_

 

Its on page 21 of this tread:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/4435599-post206.html

 Its actually on older picture. Its got dual Opus modules stacked now.


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Russ White* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you mind if I ask for a link? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Not at all! But postage from Australia will probably be a killer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Altronics - Your One Stop Electronics Shop

 I got a cheaper price in store than on the internet.

  Quote:


 Its definitely doable, but I can't remember if the HS Brian sends are 1" or 3/4". 
 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrMajestic2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can stack modules if you use 5mm standoffs. The PSUs will fit on the same standoffs, they did in my Opus._

 

I've got some 1/4" standoffs, so even a 1" H/S should be fine. Any larger would definitely be an issue though.


----------



## Russ White

Thank MrMajestic, I see your PS with HS fit just fine (or so it looks). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Very cool!

 I was specifically asking for a link to purchase the case.

 Are you and Beefy using the same case?

 Cheers!
 Russ


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrMajestic2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Its on page 21 of this tread:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/4435599-post206.html

 Its actually on older picture. Its got dual Opus modules stacked now._

 

Was he talking to you or me?!? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 [EDIT] Ah, to me......


----------



## MrMajestic2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Russ White* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank MrMajestic, I see your PS with HS fit just fine (or so it looks). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Very cool!

 I was specifically asking for a link to purchase the case.

 Are you and Beefy using the same case?

 Cheers!
 Russ_

 

Ah, you didnt quote so I just guessed it was for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Its not the same case, but 1U is 1U, most of the time


----------



## Russ White

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrMajestic2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah, you didnt quote so I just guessed it was for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Its not the same case, but 1U is 1U, most of the time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

LOL, rgr that.


----------



## Russ White

MrMajestic, It looks like your case is all setup for a SPDIF MUX. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sweeet!

 Cheers!
 Russ


----------



## MrMajestic2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Russ White* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_MrMajestic, It looks like your case is all setup for a SPDIF MUX. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sweeet!

 Cheers!
 Russ_

 

Yeah, if the lazy bums at Twisted Pear will ever release it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There is also expansion holes in the back and room inside the case for other stuff, like a USB module.


----------



## holland

Yep, I'm awaiting that as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll try to take pics of my Buffalo. Although, you guys have already put my stuff to shame.


----------



## Russ White

Well the good news is the boards are done, and we have them. They just need to be tested and kitted up etc.

 Its the first thing on the agenda once vacation time is over and we have caught our breath. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It hard to build and ship these things with a margarita in your hand. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cheers!
 Russ


----------



## MrMajestic2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Russ White* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It hard to build and ship these things with a margarita in your hand. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

And I thought the sticky stuff on the boards was flux, how wrong I was


----------



## Russ White

This little baby should arrive in the next couple weeks as well. Along with a cool new shunt regulator. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyone want to guess what it is?


----------



## gyrodec

Is it the discrete IVY?


----------



## Russ White

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gyrodec* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it the discrete IVY?_

 

That is correct! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It is one of the discrete I/V circuits I am working on. Specifically it is the "Counterpoint" circuit.

 Cheers!
 Russ


----------



## naamanf

Looks like I know where my piggy bank money is going


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Russ White* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That is correct! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It is one of the discrete I/V circuits I am working on. Specifically it is the "Counterpoint" circuit._

 

I believe that I can plan my layout such that I can replace my IVY with up to 3 new TPA modules. The SPDIF lines will be longer than I would prefer as a result, but these are the small prices we pay!


----------



## jantze

Does anyone have Buffalo DAC & TPA logos in vector format? I'd like to put those in my custom panels.


----------



## Russ White

Jantze,

 I can send you images if you can do the conversion.


----------



## MrMajestic2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Russ White* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jantze,

 I can send you images if you can do the conversion. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I just sent him my own conversion, but if you have a high res file its probably better. Mine was from the website logo


----------



## koike

so russ, when can we start putting in orders?
 i really hope i can get mine before it runs out again.


----------



## jantze

First parts arrived today


----------



## TheRobbStory

Is that a Bulgin switch? Looks like the cow eyeball I dissected in high school!


----------



## jantze

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheRobbStory* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is that a Bulgin switch? Looks like the cow eyeball I dissected in high school!_

 

Nope, it's delrin 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Gotta have all-black casing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Delrin Vandal Resistant Illuminated Switch Black - Blue Ring Products Model: VSW-BK-RING-BL [VSW-BK-RING-BL] : Performance-PCs.com, ... sleeve it and they will come


----------



## Beefy

My stuff arrived today and I have just a couple of initial questions. I'm sure there will be more, but better now than after I screw something up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The IVY OPAMPs are now OPA1632 instead of THS4131?

 I assume thermal paste should be used with the isolating pads?

 Cheers!


----------



## Russ White

No need for paste, the pads are designed to conduct heat.

 The THS4131 and the OPA1632 are virtually the same chip. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cheers!
 Russ


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The IVY OPAMPs are now OPA1632 instead of THS4131?_

 

Yes. In this application they are identical. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I assume thermal paste should be used with the isolating pads?_

 

I assume you mean for the power supply voltage regulators. There should be a pair of thermal pads in the kit, which do not require any paste (in fact, paste will make things worse).

 Like this...


----------



## Beefy

You're both quick on the draw! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just wasn't sure what material the pads were. I've used Avid ones that don't require paste, and I've also used a much cheaper brand that did recommend paste......

 [EDIT] And a LCBPS lives! I always love finishing the first step


----------



## johnsonad

This IVY is no joke to solder! All that is left are the -IC's, they look intimidating......


----------



## BrianDonegan

There's a lot of info out there on how to solder SOIC opamps, but here is how I do it with regular solder**:

 Using a sharp point solder tip and fine gauge solder, I put a small dab of solder on one of the corner pin pads. I then hold the opamp in position with tweezers and touch that pin/pad with the soldering iron, so it is soldered in place. This leaves the opamp locked in position. I then touch the next pin and pad (at the junction) for a few seconds to heat it up and touch it with solder to put a tiny amount of solder on. I just work my way around the chip. Takes about 30 seconds total after the first pin is attached.



 ** I actually normally use solder paste from a syringe. I put a tiny dab on each pad, then plop the opamp on, then touch each of the pins with the iron. Done. If you do a lot of smd soldering, I can't recommend paste in a syringe highly enough. It's easier then through-hole soldering.


----------



## johnsonad

Thanks Brian, got it done but will try the easier path next time around. Never thought I would have to use a magnifying glass! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Another question:

 For those of us using both balanced and SE outputs on the IVY, which values do you recommend for R9-12 and R13-16 or do we need to pick one set or the other? Thanks!


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There's a lot of info out there on how to solder SOIC opamps, but here is how I do it with regular solder**:_

 

Tangent has a video of exactly that procedure......


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


 For those of us using both balanced and SE outputs on the IVY, which values do you recommend for R9-12 and R13-16 or do we need to pick one set or the other? Thanks! 
 

You should use the standard 2K in all positions.


----------



## Beefy

After a productive day, my Buffalo made its first sounds......











 All of the wiring I have done is temporary, and there is still a fair bit of wiring work to be done for the OTTO, LEDs and TOSLINK. I'm waiting on some Teflon SPC wire from navships. You can see the spare space for another LCDPS when Brian has them back in stock.

 At first listen, the sound is good. SPDIF lock is less than a second from my Camrbidge Audio 540Dv2, which I am very happy with.

 The only issue I have had so far is with the OTTO. Pin 2 randomly pops up 10-80ohms resistance. I have reflowed the joints, but I think it is in the relay. I don't need all 4 pins, so it shouldn't be a problem.


----------



## fran

Brian/Russ,

 Did either of you notice a burn-in time for the buffalo?

 Fran


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


 Did either of you notice a burn-in time for the buffalo? 
 

No


----------



## n_maher

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No_

 

WUHOO! I knew I liked you Brian, or did your business manager make you say that?


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *n_maher* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WUHOO! I knew I liked you Brian, or did your business manager make you say that? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

No


----------



## fran

say something else other than "no"


----------



## nopietns

Why can't I find any information on whether it's an upsampling DAC or not?


----------



## BrianDonegan

This might help: http://www.esstech.com/products/digi...F%20080221.pdf

 It is an upsampling DAC.


----------



## nopietns

I still can't find whether it upsamples tp 192, 96 or any other frequency.
 And I guess it's impossible to bypass the upsampling, right?


----------



## johnsonad

Have a small problem with the LCBPS, I can't get the +/- below around 16 to 17 volts. The heat sinks are getting hot too. Pretty sure I soldered it together right. The little screws on the voltage regulator have hit their end and keep clicking without a drop in the voltage.


----------



## n_maher

I'd recheck the resistor values both with your meter and by sight and also check the orientation of the parts vs. the schematic to make sure that you don't have something in backwards.


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnsonad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have a small problem with the LCBPS, I can't get the +/- below around 16 to 17 volts. The heat sinks are getting hot too. Pretty sure I soldered it together right. The little screws on the voltage regulator have hit their end and keep clicking without a drop in the voltage._

 

Probably the two voltage regulators are in the wrong positions and need to be swapped. Just happened here. Was getting some weird deva-vu for a minute there...


----------



## johnsonad

R1-4 and R5-6 measure right on the board. My layout matches the one one the website. Could it be in the resistor pads U1-2? Is there a way to test them?


----------



## johnsonad

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Probably the two voltage regulators are in the wrong positions and need to be swapped. Just happened here. Was getting some weird deva-vu for a minute there..._

 

Thanks Brian, I'm not sure which goes on which side but I will swap them or attempt to without damaging them


----------



## BrianDonegan

IC1: LM317
 IC2: LM337


----------



## Beefy

My Buffalo is now 95% complete.......






 Input switching between coax and optical inputs through the OTTO works great with the Buffalo re-locking in less than a second, followed by less than two seconds of very mild crackle. This is much more elegant a switchover than I had expected, and even better than I hoped for.

 The power supply wiring to the TOSLINK module and OTTO are still temporary; I'm waiting to replace one of the LCBPS with two LCDPS. Any hints on how far away they are Brian? I also need to shorten the cable run to the IVY. Still need to wire up the balanced audio outs as well.

 So far it sounds great. I will post more photos and impressions when it is 100% completed.


----------



## nopietns

I guess we'd all like to hear more detailed impressions on the sound.
 Have You had any other DACs/sources to compare it to?


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nopietns* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I guess we'd all like to hear more detailed impressions on the sound.
 Have you had any other DACs/sources to compare it with?_

 

Is that directed at me? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 In all honesty, I don't think that my ears or my audio memory are good enough to give accurate and reliable descriptions of sources. And I think I had already got pretty damn close to the limits of my best phones, which are Audio Technica AD900's. My only other good source is a Cambridge Audio 540Dv2 _DVD_ player (but it still manages really good CD audio).

 But even with all those things considered, soundstage from the Buffalo is ever-so-slightly wider, deeper and more defined than the 540. Much more detail as well...... _almost_ too much compared to what I am used to. I can certainly hear more flaws in certain recordings. I might swap out the AD8610 in my amp for some OPA627 and see if it softens any.

 Overall tone seems very good - I don't get the feeling that it is cold, or warm, or dark, or bright. Couldn't stand it if it was bright or cold - or worse, both at the same time! (hello MS-1 from iPod 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 I actually cased the whole thing up for the first time last night, and gave it a really good run (~5 hours straight) using optical from my Xbox360. Playing a very good XBLA game called Braid (which actually has _brilliant_ sound for a game) and the whole thing didn't skip a beat. The case got a fair bit warmer than I expected, so hopefully I don't have to un-case the whole thing and add more ventilation holes to the base


----------



## nopietns

Yes, it was directed at You.

 Thanks for comparing it to the Cambridge Audio. The thing is that most of the discussions on this DIY kit focuses only on technical DIY-ishy things/details (measurements or sampling programs, frequencies etc.) and I haven't found a single proper review of this DAC/DIY kit that could help me to understand in which league/price category this DAC fits in.

 Any comments on the PRaT and speed &attack?
 And what did You use as a transport? The Xbox360 via optical?


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nopietns* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any comments on the PRaT and speed &attack?
 and what did You use as a transport? The Xbox?_

 

PRaT is a useless term to me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It does slam hard in the bass, and treble spikes are enough to make you blink..... but realistically, the 'speed' aspects are not that much different from the 540 aside from the previously mentioned detail. I'm pretty sure that the phones are limiting here.

 For music, the 540 has been doing transport duties over coax. The Xbox has so far been games only over optical.

  Quote:


 and I haven't found a single proper review of this DAC/DIY kit that could help me to understand in which league/price category this DAC fits in. 
 

There aren't actually that many in the wild, comparatively speaking. I know lots have shipped in the last few weeks though..... so hang tight, builds will finish, and you'll have reviews galore to peruse.


----------



## willisv

I finished building my Buffalo Dac yesterday, I just have it temporarily cased for now. I am going from a X-meridian s/pdif out to the Buffalo/Ivy then to my Bijou tube amp and K701's.

 I am running 8V to Va and Vd, but I noticed that IC1 on my LCDPS (LM 317) is getting really hot to the touch. I was wondering if this is normal, It is hooked up to Vd. The other side stays cool and there is no heat problems on my LCBPS.

 This Dac sounds very good, I would say neutral is a good way to describe it. You can really hear the details but nothing is overemphasized, everything sounds very refined and controlled.

 I am using Foobar for playing music and I have tried using Kernel streaming and Asio but for some reason I can't get anything over 48KHz S/pdif to work with the Buffalo. If I am playing a 24-bit/192KHz music file through foobar, it plays fine on the Buffalo if my Oxygen HD S/pdif digital out setting for my X-meridian is set at 44KHz or 48KHz. But If I set the S/pdif digital out to 192KHz, I can't get any sound.


----------



## fran

AFAIK, the Va and Vd should be 6.6V and 6.0V respectively. That why your chip is getting hot....

 Fran


----------



## sleepy dan

Actually running it at 8V will make it run cooler as less voltage is being dropped across the reg. If you are concerned, measure the voltage across the 10R resistor in the PSU. Using I=V/R you can then work out how much current is being drawn through the PSU.


----------



## willisv

Thanks for the help guys, I measured 17.9V across 10R resistor. So 1.79 amps, is that too much current? I'm pretty sure Russ said we could run Va and Vd at 7-9 volts somewhere. Also I should mention I am using a Twisted Pear sold Avel Lindberg transformer and it's primaries are hooked up in parallel (blue and purple hooked together, grey and brown hooked together.


----------



## BrianDonegan

Can you measure the current directly (in line) between the PS and the Buffalo?

 It's possible you have a short on the PSU causing the excessive current draw. A few pics of the top and bottom of the PSU would be helpful as well.


----------



## willisv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can you measure the current directly (in line) between the PS and the Buffalo?

 It's possible you have a short on the PSU causing the excessive current draw. A few pics of the top and bottom of the PSU would be helpful as well._

 

Thanks Brian, I switched Va and Vd to opposite sides of the LCDPS and the other side got hot. I checked the power supply for shorts and part orientation and everything looks good.

 Va current = 61 mA
 Vd current = 170 mA


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


 Va current = 61 mA
 Vd current = 170 mA 
 

Okay, those numbers look totally normal. Vd side should be getting warm, not Vd.


----------



## willisv

Well that's good the numbers are normal, I thought I read somewhere that Va was supposed to draw more than Vd. The Lm 317 heatsink on my Vd side is too hot to touch for more than 3 seconds, as well as reg1 on the Buffalo.

 The Buffalo does sound amazing though, you guys did a great job with this Dac


----------



## BrianDonegan

The digital side runs at 3.3V, so you can actually drop the Vd output from the LCDPS to 5V to reduce the heat on Reg1.


----------



## Russ White

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *willisv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well that's good the numbers are normal, I thought I read somewhere that Va was supposed to draw more than Vd. The Lm 317 heatsink on my Vd side is too hot to touch for more than 3 seconds, as well as reg1 on the Buffalo.

 The Buffalo does sound amazing though, you guys did a great job with this Dac_

 

VA should draw roughly 160ma. And VD ~50 ma.

 Are you sure you don't have your measurements reversed?


----------



## willisv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Russ White* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_VA should draw roughly 160ma. And VD ~50 ma.

 Are you sure you don't have your measurements reversed?_

 

This is what confuses me, the silkscreen is very clear VD G VA G. I disconnected the VD wire and hooked my multimeter up inline between + on LCDPS and VD on Buffalo, this measures 170 mA and when I do VA I am getting 52 mA now. I will post some pictures later, I must have something hooked up wrong.


----------



## willisv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The digital side runs at 3.3V, so you can actually drop the Vd output from the LCDPS to 5V to reduce the heat on Reg1._

 

I will do this Brian, should save some wear and tear on my Buffalo.


----------



## nopietns

Russ, can You tell me what is the oversampling rate of this DAC and can it be modified to NOS DAC somehow?


----------



## TimmyMac

When you guys are back from holidays, can you let me know what it would cost for a bare board + DAC chip? Soldered on or not, doesn't really matter.


----------



## Russ White

Hi,

 Very good news here. We have a fresh batch of PS / Opus boards arrived and we will be back in business very very soon. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 We also have some exciting new things coming, but they are still at least a few weeks off.

 Cheers!
 Russ


----------



## Jean-Charles

This one is for Dustin, Russ, Brian.

 I was thinking about the name you selected for your product, ''Buffalo Sabre''.
 Hum! Good team indeed, but will it be good enough to play well in Montreal!!!!

 LOL!! LOL!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just could not resist!!!

 Jean-Charles


----------



## Russ White

The funny thing is, I am a Nashville Predators and Colorado Avalanche fan. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just could not miss the hockey reference when I designed the DAC.

 Cheers!
 Russ


----------



## Jean-Charles

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Russ White* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The funny thing is, I am a Nashville Predators and Colorado Avalanche fan. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just could not miss the hockey reference when I designed the DAC.

 Cheers!
 Russ_

 

Hi Russ
 My previous mail was just to make fun of course. I spent most of my life in or around Montreal, so I folowed the CH since I was a kid.
 Our harts are also in Colorado. As you know, the Avalanche are the former Quebec City's Nordique that moved to Denver. Quebec's fans never forgot them.

 I found the voltage requirements needed for the Buffalo, but not for the other circuits: i/v, metronome, SPDIF and the coming Conterpoint.
 I would also be interested to know the range of the ajustable power supplies, LCBPS, LCDPS and LCPS. What voltage do you use at the input of the ajustable regulators.

 Thank you, have a good day

 Jean-Charles


----------



## thegeek

Yay!
 I _finally_ got in an order(after checking the twisted pear audio site every day for a loooong time)


----------



## BrianDonegan

10 minutes until the next round is available.


----------



## johnsonad

I finally got mine put together (after a PS mess up) and it is sounding great! Thanks again Brian and Russ for an outstanding product!


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnsonad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I finally got mine put together (after a PS mess up) and it is sounding great! Thanks again Brian and Russ for an outstanding product!_

 

Pics...... piiiiiiiiccccccsssssssssss!

 I finished the first 'phase' of mine over the weekend. Total cost of everything except for some very minor expenses was ~AU$770, or ~US$627 at current exchange rates.







 At a glance.....
 Double fused, filtered, DPDT switched IEC inlet
 OTTO switching coax and optical inputs
 LEDs switch with inputs
 Buffalo with switch 3 set low
 IVY built exactly as supplied
 Two transformers, 15VA 2x0-15V and 30VA 2x0-12V
 LCDPS at +6.0 and 7.5 for Buffalo VD and VA respectively
 LCBPS at +7.5 for OTTO and TOSLINK
 LCBPS at ±15 for IVY

 Everything might seem a bit haphazard and space poorly utilised, but it is actually carefully thought out for significant expansion and upgrade. Specifically, I eventually plan for......
 OTTO to be replaced by the TPA SPDIF MUX
 Extra coax input
 USB receiver at the front on the right
 Discrete I/V modules on either side of the IVY
 IVY to become just a balanced to unbalanced converter
 Upgrade to the new TPA shunt regulator power supplies when available


----------



## tk3

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pics...... piiiiiiiiccccccsssssssssss!

 I finished the first 'phase' of mine over the weekend. Total cost of everything except for some very minor expenses was ~AU$770, or ~US$627 at current exchange rates._

 

Wow, looking nice Beefy.


*Brian*; did you receive my PM's and emails?


----------



## jamess71

Very nice Beefy. Nice and tidy wiring. What is that case? 

 How does it sound compared to an EMU 0404 usb? I know I'm reaching but thats the only dac I have any experience with. 

 James


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamess71* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How does it sound compared to an EMU 0404 usb? I know I'm reaching but thats the only dac I have any experience with. 
_

 

I'm also interested in this


----------



## fran

Beefy - how come you have the Vd and VA set a bit higher than brian/russ recommends(6 and 6.6 I think)?

 sonics?

 Fran

 EDIT: read it again - its cos you needed 7.5 for the otto/toslink, right?


----------



## johnsonad

Pics as requested:






[/url][/IMG]






[/url][/IMG]

 I too wanted to keep an open floor plan for expansion. It is burning in for a few days.


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamess71* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Very nice Beefy. Nice and tidy wiring. What is that case?_

 

Case is this one from Australian company Altronics, who have a knack for getting surprisingly good quality stuff manufactured for them in China.

  Quote:


 How does it sound compared to an EMU 0404 usb? I know I'm reaching but thats the only dac I have any experience with. 
 

No idea, sorry. Never heard the EMU 0404.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fran* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Beefy - how come you have the Vd and VA set a bit higher than brian/russ recommends(6 and 6.6 I think)?_

 

The Buffalo website now states that "VA should be run at 6.6-8.5VDC and VD should be run at 5-7.5VDC". VD was specifically set at 6V in my build based on temperature of the Vregs. I tested voltages from 7.5 and down until the Buffalo VD Vreg was just a touch cooler than the heatsink for VD on the LCDPS.

  Quote:


 sonics? 
 

It has them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 EDIT: read it again - its cos you needed 7.5 for the otto/toslink, right? 
 

OTTO/Toslink is run from a separate power supply. I chose 7.5V because it is a good brightness for the LEDs and resistors I had lying around.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnsonad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pics as requested....
 I too wanted to keep an open floor plan for expansion. It is burning in for a few days._

 

Really nice job! Stacking the modules really cleans up the wiring and gives you heaps of room. My case isn't high enough internally for that......


----------



## johnsonad

Stacking allows more boards in the future. The case is large enough to stack power supplies too. So far so good. Easy build all around compared to my Opus build with a half dozen boards. I'm looking forward to the Counterpoint I/V stage and hope to run it and the IVY together. The IVY takes a little break in or at least my build is. It sounded a little rough out of the box but has cleaned up well with 24 hours of burn-in.


----------



## chobint

hey johnsonad that layout looks great. What case did you use?


----------



## johnsonad

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chobint* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey johnsonad that layout looks great. What case did you use?_

 

ParMetal 12"x12"x3"


----------



## fishski13

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnsonad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ParMetal 12"x12"x3"_

 

looks like black painted gold alodine? last week i ordered a clear anodized chassis from Par-Metal for my Bijou build. i was considering black painted, but was unshure about the baked finish as i could find no pictures. how do you like it?

 PACE


----------



## johnsonad

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fishski13* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_looks like black painted gold alodine? last week i ordered a clear anodized chassis from Par-Metal for my Bijou build. i was considering black painted, but was unshure about the baked finish as i could find no pictures. how do you like it?

 PACE_

 

It is; anodized front, black painted. Most of my gear is black and this disapears. It sits on top of a Slim Devices Transporter and I don't even notice it is there. The painted surfaces scratch pretty easy but is just as easy to touch up.


----------



## fishski13

thanks. nice build btw.

 i tried getting in on the last round of boards, but missed out. now i'm left slumming it with my BM DAC1.

 PACE


----------



## BrianDonegan

The next round is in the works now.


----------



## MONVMENTVM

Could anyone give me the dimensions of the board? I can't find it anywere, but it would cool to have them, so I can think about a case.

 About how long will it take for the boards to get finished? I'd really like to get one...


----------



## BrianDonegan

3.3" x 2"

 All of out digital boards are the same size.


----------



## MONVMENTVM

Ah, thanks.

 Do I need the IVY if I want to use the DAC for a single endet tube amp only?

 Thanks


----------



## Corky

tried my buffalo last night and i don't seem to be getting anything out of it. it does have the 1.65v dc offset on audio outputs, with ~5mV out of the ivy.

 Problem is it just gives me noise, not like white noise, best i can describe it is digital sounding? Also i'm not sure what the leds (automute and lock) are supposed to do.

 When i apply power it will have both leds on. When i connect something to the spdif in, the automute will turn off, if i disconnect the input it will stay with lock on and automute off.

 anyone got tips for young players?


----------



## naamanf

You should only be getting the lock light when it has a SPDIF signal. Have you verified that your switches are in the proper position and the wires hooked up properly?


----------



## Corky

yeah got the 4 switches set to +. 
 The spdif is set to on.
 Signal from coax is on spdif and ground to ground. Actually tried reversing that and had the same result.

 I have just tried straight from the buffalo into my amp (with cap for dc offset) and it had music at least, but both leds are on and automute comes off after connecting spdif like before. Problem was it would seem to drop out intermittantly and the sound was static like, definitely not how it should be.

 i was haveing a good look at the ess chip on the buffalo and noticed some legs seem to not have much solder on them. I think there may be still a resonable connection and i might be clutching at straws. Amazingly i managed to get a pic of it.

 PS go hawks!!! if your aussie you might understand me


----------



## Corky

oh yeah, that pic





 By acorky, shot with DMC-FZ30 at 2008-09-20


----------



## mwofsi

They do not look good do they?

 You could try pressing down on the pins gently with a cocktail stick while listening to see if that confirms a problem.


----------



## Corky

ok, a quick update before going to bed.

 i also noticed pins that look similar to that on other sides, totaling 7 in all. In my searching i also noticed a possible bridge between 2 pins. i managed to get a knife in and cut it a bit. 

 Since then no noise and lock led is off when there is no input. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the cutting in and out is only happening with the spdif from my computer. i can see the lock led will turn on and off. Funny thing is it'll have solid lock when the amp is off. i turn it on and the **** hits the fan. 

 When I use my cd player as a source the lock is on solid, no dramas when amp is turned on. weird.

 i remember reading somewhere that spdif out of computers can be too hot or something, or not ac coupled. can't find that post, but i'm sure i read that somewhere. when tomorrow comes round i'll try ac coupling the spdif from the pc. Don't know how the amp being turned on could affect it but it's something i guess.


----------



## fran

Yes, I had that problem with a USB to SPDIF adaptor I used. Turns out the jitter from the adaptor was so high to be interefering with the DAC. I have since bought a soundcard with 24/192 SPDIF output so when it arrives I'll try it out again. What means of output are you using from the PC?

 It seems that you do need to feed this DAC a good quality SPDIF, eg my monica DAC will lock on no problem, as will a fostex DAT machine I have here.

 It works flawlessly though with any CDP and the squeezebox.

 Fran

 You are supposed to set switch 3 low I think......


----------



## Corky

i have an auzentech X-Fi. It has a RCA connector for spdif out that will do both coax and optical. so far i have only used coax, i didn't think too far ahead and get the toslink module so i havn't tried optical yet.

 did you find any way around the problems you had? Doesn't sound like you did. By the way i did find that post of yours, i have tried switch 3 low. No joy with that. I also tried putting it through D1 and spdif switch to low but that gives me nothing at all so i don't know what i'm doing wrong there.

 doing these DIY projects is so much fun, even these little teething problems make it all fun. Just wish i didn't hate doing the enclosures!


----------



## fran

Enclosures are the bane of every DIYers life. Every time I start a project I swear I'm just gonna bite the bullet and buy a case..... but then meanness gets a hold and I end up using something else!

 Anyway, no, I haven't sorted it out, but then I haven't tried to either. I have ordered a m-audiophile 192 and when that arrives I'll be working on it. SPDIF througha coax should be ok, but the SPDIF from a CDrom drive is often what is called TTL and is a higher level signal. Add a 200-500R resistor in series with the centre conductor of the coax and it will tame it enough for you to see if it makes a difference. 

 BTW, I have done some quick tests using a coax-from-3.5mm-minijack through an ordinary RCA cable and the positioning of the cable makes a huge difference. In other words SPDIF is susceptible to cable routing if you are using something rigged like this. Proper coax cable should be AOK though.

 Fran


----------



## he46570

Anyone know when the boards will be available again?


----------



## FallenAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *he46570* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone know when the boards will be available again?_

 

Judging by the last two sales, I'm guessing a few months.


----------



## Corky

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fran* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Add a 200-500R resistor in series with the centre conductor of the coax and it will tame it enough for you to see if it makes a difference.

 Fran_

 

Yeah i tried that, no luck. It was more stable but still not %100. It's really disappointing that the spdif out from my pc is so crap, the PC is my main source 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i wonder if the transformer coupled inputs on the 4:1 receiver/MUX module will be more tolerant of spdif from a PC?


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


 Anyone know when the boards will be available again? 
 

Hopefully in a month or so. One of the big sources of delay is building all the power supply and IVY kits to go along with the DACs. My wife is helping out a bit now, so hopefully I can have more ready sooner.

  Quote:


 i wonder if the transformer coupled inputs on the 4:1 receiver/MUX module will be more tolerant of spdif from a PC? 
 

It will be more tolerant.


----------



## BrianDonegan

Those pins look fine. If you look closely at the picture, you can see a solder fillets under and behind the pins. 

 The possible bridge, on the other hand, sounds like it might have been a problem. I visually inspect all the boards, and run a test spdif signal through them (16/44.1) checking for audio on each output using a little test headphone rig. It's not an incredibly thorough listening test, but if I want to ship more than a few each month, that's not really possible. So, it's possible that got by me, but it sounds like it's working now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 BTW: You definitely want switch 3 to be low.


----------



## MONVMENTVM

I'm still wondering if I'd need the IVY if I want to use the DAC just to feed the signal to my tube amp.

 Thanks for the help!


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MONVMENTVM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm still wondering if I'd need the IVY if I want to use the DAC just to feed the signal to my tube amp.

 Thanks for the help!_

 

The Sabre8 works as a voltage output DAC, but performance is far better as a current output DAC (using an I/V stage). So, you don't "need" and I/V stage, but I recommend one.


----------



## MONVMENTVM

Thanks!

 What exactly do you mean with "far better performance"? Does it affect soundquality, soundstage etc.?


----------



## fran

Corky: I just tried the SPDIF out from the motherboard and while it works AOK with the monica DAC, on the buffalo I'm getting really sharp clicks, primarily on my left side (hurt your ears...) but also the lock is failing intermittently as a song is playing - this is all just with the onboard sound (SPDIF through a minijack) and then down a non-coax, cheapo RAC cable......

 The soundcard was shipped yesterday, so should be here next week sometime.

 I'll be interested to hear do you get anywhere with it.

 It continues to work flawlessly with squeezebox and CDP.

 Fran


----------



## Corky

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It will be more tolerant._

 

 Thats good to here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Those pins look fine. If you look closely at the picture, you can see a solder fillets under and behind the pins. 

 The possible bridge, on the other hand, sounds like it might have been a problem. I visually inspect all the boards, and run a test spdif signal through them (16/44.1) checking for audio on each output using a little test headphone rig. It's not an incredibly thorough listening test, but if I want to ship more than a few each month, that's not really possible. So, it's possible that got by me, but it sounds like it's working now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW: You definitely want switch 3 to be low._

 

Yeah everything is cool, you blokes do a great job! don't ever doubt that!
 I will leave sw3 low.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fran* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Corky: I just tried the SPDIF out from the motherboard and while it works AOK with the monica DAC, on the buffalo I'm getting really sharp clicks, primarily on my left side (hurt your ears...) but also the lock is failing intermittently as a song is playing - this is all just with the onboard sound (SPDIF through a minijack) and then down a non-coax, cheapo RAC cable......

 The soundcard was shipped yesterday, so should be here next week sometime.

 I'll be interested to hear do you get anywhere with it.

 It continues to work flawlessly with squeezebox and CDP.

 Fran_

 

I'm hoping the 4:1 module will help us out in the pc department.

 I actually got an old pc cdrom out, powered it and fed the digital out from it into the buffalo and it worked great. I almost thought about including the cdrom in my enclosure but i allready got a cdp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 On the same note i got my pioneer DV-676A opened up and have been trying to steal the DSD from it. Got the pin out for the main IC in it, and have what i think i need but there seems to be a few different bit clocks coming out of it. I manage to get a lock but sound is quite what i'm looking for 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll keep persevering tho!


----------



## chilli6565

Hi all....Just wanted some quick advice......can the ivy be used with non twisted pear dac's....I would love to run one off the AD1955 dac in my Harman Kardon hd970 cdp.

 thanks
 Paul


----------



## fran

OK, my m-audio audiophile 192 card arrived today and I have it installed and working...... but not with the buffalo!

 I'm getting intermittent lock and when I play music its the same way. Hook it up to the monica 2 dac and I get a perfect lock - in fact the lock light stays on on the monica even when nothing is playing....

 I've tried different settings within the soundcard software but to no avail. When I first hooked up the monica I was getting some distortion on the sound, but a bit of tweaking of latency etc seems to have sorted that out (haven't tested extensively but it seems ok right now)

 Any ideas Russ/Brian?

 Fran


----------



## FallenAngel

Are you sure you're bypassing the mixer? Have your windows audio sounds off?


----------



## fran

No, and No - and now after installing the latest drivers I also have distortion on the signal into the monica DAC, and no tweaking of the latency sorts it. Also it won't play through WMP11 but will play through zune SW.

 Fallenangel, is there a simple guide somewhere for this damn card that would simply enable me to get decent SPDIF signal out. Not interested in all the other crap on the card.....

 Sorry for the OT guys...

 Fran


----------



## willisv

Has anyone got around to trying the OPA827 or OPA2211 in their Ivy yet?


----------



## Ferrari

Much appreciation if someone can tell me what the exact dimensions of the Buffalo DAC, IVI and power supply PCB’s are.
 If possible, also the position of the mounting holes in the corners. (I know that these PCB’s are of the same size and stackable but the dimensions...???). Maybe it has been answered before but I can’t find it by scrolling through this thread.

 I am still waiting for my DAC’s and IVI’s to arrive but meanwhile, I want to start with the preparation of the casework for them.
 Many thanks in advance!


----------



## naamanf

I measure 3.3"x2" for board size and the holes are .1875" from each corner.


----------



## Ferrari

Thanks Naaman. Take care!


----------



## GeWa

*@Ferrari

*I'm still without a SOHA II board but I do have these. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			










 naamanf beat me to it, but here is the answer to your question (in metric)






 Regards


----------



## swt61

Wow, with Ferrari and Naamanf both building Buffalos, there should be some gorgeous DACs to ogle soon.


----------



## Ferrari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GeWa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@Ferrari
 ...
 naamanf beat me to it, but here is the answer to your question (in metric)

 Regards_

 

Much appreciated Gewa !


----------



## naamanf

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, with Ferrari and Naamanf both building Buffalos, there should be some gorgeous DACs to ogle soon._

 

I was thinking about building mine out of Lincoln Logs


----------



## TheRobbStory

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *naamanf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was thinking about building mine out of Lincoln Logs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Popsicle sticks and Elmers glue, dude..


----------



## fault151

I got my buffalo up and running today, wahoo! It sounds pretty sweet now. I also have the opus dac. 

 I'm just letting the buffalo burn in a little.


----------



## fishski13

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got my buffalo up and running today, wahoo! It sounds pretty sweet now. I also have the opus dac. 

 I'm just letting the buffalo burn in a little._

 

please post your impressions. either one of these DACs will be my next project. we'll see if i can get-in on the next BSD buy.


----------



## fault151

Well it's a little early to tell as my opus has been played a lot so it siunds pretty good too. In my opus set up i have the reciever, dual mono dacs, metranome and ballsie. It does sound very nice.


 The Buffalo uses the dac and the Ivy. At first i didn't think there was much in the two. I had only had the dac on an hour or so. But, after a while, there was quite a difference in the two. It's really hard to put my finger on why i like the buffalo more. It think it just literally has more sound than the opus. It seems to have more depth to it. Atleast at this point it does. I really need to run it little longer to be able to provide a better explanation. 

 Don't get me wrong, i think the opus is brilliant too.

 Don't know if that vague description helps?


----------



## manaox2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well it's a little early to tell as my opus has been played a lot so it siunds pretty good too. In my opus set up i have the reciever, dual mono dacs, metranome and ballsie. It does sound very nice.


 The Buffalo uses the dac and the Ivy. At first i didn't think there was much in the two. I had only had the dac on an hour or so. But, after a while, there was quite a difference in the two. It's really hard to put my finger on why i like the buffalo more. It think it just literally has more sound than the opus. It seems to have more depth to it. Atleast at this point it does. I really need to run it little longer to be able to provide a better explanation. 

 Don't get me wrong, i think the opus is brilliant too.

 Don't know if that vague description helps? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I appreciate it, I have about the same OPUS set-up, just need the ballsie, so that was still very helpful.


----------



## glt

fault151, is your OPUS the 8740 or 8741? Thanks.


----------



## MrMajestic2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *glt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_fault151, is your OPUS the 8740 or 8741? Thanks._

 

Its dual 8740. I know, since I built it


----------



## jantze

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrMajestic2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Its dual 8740. I know, since I built it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## fault151

Ah beaten to it. 

 I'm going to have a listen to the buffalo in a bit, im addicted to it. :0)


----------



## n_maher

My buffalo parts arrived today...


----------



## TheRobbStory

Has anyone measured the vertical height of the assembled boards, both by themselves and stacked together? I've got a Hi-Fi 2000 case which measures 1 3/4"H x 9 1/4"H x 11 1/8"D and I'm trying to figure out just how much DAC I can cram into it.


----------



## JamesL

Someone posted a while back, I think in the opus thread that they could stack 2 boards in a 1u case.


----------



## fran

I'm using a 1U case, 30mm high and I can fit in the transformers, power supplies and DAC/IVY boards, but only when I filed the standoffs to about 6-7mm high. The heatsinks clear the case safely then (boards not stacked of course).





 Fran


----------



## TimmyMac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *n_maher* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_






 My buffalo parts arrived today..._

 

Parts? Where did you get the chip?


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JamesL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Someone posted a while back, I think in the opus thread that they could stack 2 boards in a 1u case._

 

I have two opus modules stacked up in a 1u slimline case. It has smaller standoffs to get it in. The psu heat sinks are very close to the lid, if i was to use smaller standoffs it would be better, but it still fits in.

 I managed to get an opus set up and a buffalo set up in the same 1u case. It only has one set of transformers so im limited to using one or the other.
 (Its a temporary measure just to try the buffalo out)


----------



## n_maher

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TimmyMac* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Parts? Where did you get the chip?_

 

I found an entire buffalo "kit" for sale here, and snapped it up.


----------



## diego

I already figured it up


----------



## n_maher




----------



## fran

well done! Now the bane of a DIYers life, go get it cased!

 Fran


----------



## diego

lol ... I've only done one PS during the same time, but I haven't hurried because I still have parts on the way and the guys at par-metal don't answer my emails.


----------



## naamanf

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *diego* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...the guys at par-metal don't answer my emails._

 

And they never will. You have to call them if you want anything from them.


----------



## BrianDonegan

FYI, Buffalo news update: The Next Round of Buffalo DACs - News - Twisted Pear Audio Support


----------



## n_maher

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *naamanf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And they never will. You have to call them if you want *to have a chance at getting* anything from them._

 

FIFY


----------



## n_maher

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fran* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well done! Now the bane of a DIYers life, go get it cased!_

 

Indeed, but the chassis is in and it's now a matter of laying out some panels to get fabbed up. I hope to work on those this weekend. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I also have to say that the Twisted Pear kits are excellent and extremely easy to follow. All of the parts are clearly marked and presorted into groups. I'd say it took maybe a total of 2hrs to populate and complete the 3 modules (2PS + Ivy) and do the minor finishing required to the Buffalo board.


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *n_maher* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Indeed, but the chassis is in and it's now a matter of laying out some panels to get fabbed up. I hope to work on those this weekend. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Have you managed any listening yet? I love the sound of mine, but have nothing high-end to compare it to either


----------



## n_maher

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you managed any listening yet? I love the sound of mine, but have nothing high-end to compare it to either 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Nah, I'm not going to wire it up until I have the chassis ready for it.


----------



## Jose R

I assume we can stack the modules.

 I am seriously considering getting in on the pre-order.

 Thinking of a two chassis design with stacked modules.

 Does anyone have a height measurement for the PS/IVY/DAC modules?


----------



## miky

Can anyone compare Opus DAC vs. Buffalo (sonically)?


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jose R* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I assume we can stack the modules.

 I am seriously considering getting in on the pre-order.

 Thinking of a two chassis design with stacked modules.

 Does anyone have a height measurement for the PS/IVY/DAC modules?_

 

Not only _can_ you stack them, they are designed to, and even come with stacking hardware.

 The M-M (base) standoffs are .5". The M-F standoffs for stacking are .625" tall. Add in the thickness of each PCB (~3/32").

 The Power supply is a tad over 1" tall (heatsinks are 1" plus board thickness). The standoffs are another .5" if you use them. There is no stacking hardware included for the ps, but it is possible to do it. Just make sure the heatsink for VD has enough air.


----------



## Nebby

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *n_maher* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nah, I'm not going to wire it up until I have the chassis ready for it._

 

Casing is funnest part of any project right?


----------



## rds

Quote:


 The M-M (base) standoffs are .5". The M-F standoffs for stacking are .625" tall. Add in the thickness of each PCB (~3/32"). 
 

So if we want them stacked in the 2" tall hammond 1455, we need to replaced the .5" standoffs with something shorter than 0.1875"?
 Is it possible to use something shorter than 0.625" for stacking the ps on top of the ivy?

 EDIT: nevermind, I take it stacking hardware is meant for stacking the ivy on top of the dac module.

 It would be nice if the ivy, dac, 2 ps, and 2 transformers could be put in a 1455. Does anyone have the horizontal dimensions of the boards? It looks the transformers from Twisted Pear are 2.4" diameter.


----------



## BrianDonegan

All of our digital boards are 3.3" x 2" (except toslink and volumite).

 You are thinking something like this?...






 You would need smaller base standoffs.

 If you want even more space, you could use smaller trafos, like Amveco 7VA, you can probably stack them to get more room. Also, the Placid supplies will be a lot shorter and will stack better when they are available.


----------



## rds

That's exactly what I was thinking - looks great. I take it that is the 1455T2202BK.

 By the way where will updates about the next round of Buffalo orders be posted? 

 Thanks for all your work in this, and many other, great projects.


----------



## he46570

Brian, any update on pre-orders? I keep checking the website every day...


----------



## BrianDonegan

No firm info yet. I need to make some web site changes to support the preorders. I will post here when there is news.


----------



## swt61

So I received a loaner Buffalo DAC from naamanf today. It has the IVY and balanced outputs.

 Now I'm speaking from memory here as I sold my Zapfiltered Opus a while back, but I really like this DAC over the Opus in a big way.

 It's resolving, great imaging and soundstage, very detailed and a perfect balance between too layed back and too fatiguing. 

 I'm using my HiFiDIY CD transport built by n_maher, my balanced four channel β22, balanced K340, HD 580 and "Chocolate Donuts" super modded orthodynamic phones.

 This is a very refined and engaging sound! I'll go out on a limb and say it's the best DAC I've had in my system bar none.


----------



## miky

Thank you swt61!


----------



## tk3

Those are very encouraging words, swt61.
 I look forward to getting one in the near future.

 I wonder if twistedpear's new output stage will significantly improve it even further beyond the IVY.


----------



## minivan

my buffalo is running, can't get the lcbps running yet, just use a normal regulated psu for the ivy atm
 have 0 reading on the +side of the lcbps.


----------



## naamanf

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *minivan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_my buffalo is running, can't get the lcbps running yet, just use a normal regulated psu for the ivy atm
 have 0 reading on the +side of the lcbps._

 

If you post a picture we might be able to help out.


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *minivan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_my buffalo is running, can't get the lcbps running yet, just use a normal regulated psu for the ivy atm
 have 0 reading on the +side of the lcbps.


_

 

Sounds like a bad solder join or loose wire.


----------



## minivan

here are some of the photos of my lcbps, sorry those are the best i can manage with my cam










 i am pretty sure i have all solder join done good, i checked the voltage input ,all good too.
 n_maher seem to have similar problem as i do here
LCBPS Issue - General Questions - Twisted Pear Audio Support


----------



## n_maher

I don't think our issue is exactly the same, you get 0V on the output, I get the full unregulated DC on the output, with no adjustment.

 Just completed some more testing, the trimpot that I have installed on the negative side is faulty and shows infinite resistance across it. I installed a discrete 2k resistor and all is well.


----------



## minivan

i found out one of the solder point on the choke is not done properly , all is working now after. 
 brian is right about the solder join in the first place, my fault for not think of checking the solder join on the choke , only checked those solder join at the back in the pcb

 i like how the dac sound, holograhpic like with very good detail retrieval ,very wide soundstage.


----------



## BrianDonegan

Buffalos go on sale again today.


----------



## fc911c

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Buffalos go on sale again today._

 

Is Paypal the only method of payment? I had sent emails asking about this and never received a reply.

 Frank


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


 Is Paypal the only method of payment? 
 

Yes.


----------



## pabbi1

Will someone finish off the available Buffalo modules and put me out of my misery? That is NOT what I need to do at the moment...


----------



## rds

I have a question about SPDIF vs I2S on the Buffalo. 
 I will run my Buffalo from a computer source and am wondering whether it's beneficial to use a usb input. 
 My understanding is that SPDIF is clocked by it's source and so if I'm using a pc soundcard as my source I will be using it's (less than stellar) clocking. However,I also think I read that the Buffalo will reclock the SPDIF signal.
 So is there any sound quality advantage to using a usb module rather than using the SPDIF of my soundcard?


----------



## chobint

Buffalo's are still for sale?!? amazing

 RDS, I can't remember all the stuff from the DIYaudio buffalo thread...but I _think_ they mentioned quite a few pages back that I2S is preffered to SPDIF for jitter rejection. Poor quality SPDIF signals can force you to use a higher DPLL which allows more jitter through...or something to that effect. USB is limited to 16-bit/48k tho. Hope that helps.


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


 Buffalo's are still for sale?!? amazing 
 

We got lots of them this time. LOTS.


----------



## rds

I'm very unclear as to which digital input for the Buffalo is considered best.
 I plan to use only a computer as my source. It has usb, toslink, and spdif. I will be using CDs, Blurays, and possibly other high def content.
 Any help would really be appreciated.

 It seems that if I use spdif I can use 24/192 content without any additional modules. If that is true then I would prefer that method. The only worry I have is that I've read a few posts about problems with locking onto the spdif signal from computers.

 I know the MUX is an option, but I'm trying to minimize cost.


----------



## digger945

Do you need to buy the USB module to use the Buffalo with computer usb?


----------



## fc911c

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_We got lots of them this time. LOTS._

 


 to bad paypal is only method of payment.


----------



## fran

digger945: you will need some kind of device to convert the USB to either spdif or I2S. The TP module is a good performer here, better than the cheapo chinese spdif/usb adaptors and it outputs I2S for the buffalo.

 Buffalo can take SPDIF directly though.

 Fran


----------



## rds

Quote:


 Buffalo can take SPDIF directly though. 
 

But at what resolution? I have read on the TP support forums that the on board comparator is currently limited to 48kHz. 
 This is all fairly confusing to me and I'm wondering how you can utilize 192kHz without using the MUX module.


----------



## chobint

The latest batch of Buffalo's have an updated comparator chip, which is sposed to fix that issue. The usb module is the only thing i recall having a 48k limitation.


----------



## manaox2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chobint* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The latest batch of Buffalo's have an updated comparator chip, which is sposed to fix that issue. The usb module is the only thing i recall having a 48k limitation._

 

A newbie question, but how do I wire SPDIF directly into the buffalo without a module?


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


 A newbie question, but how do I wire SPDIF directly into the buffalo without a module? 
 

There is an S/PDIF terminal (and GND) on the input header.

  Quote:


 But at what resolution? I have read on the TP support forums that the on board comparator is currently limited to 48kHz.
 This is all fairly confusing to me and I'm wondering how you can utilize 192kHz without using the MUX module. 
 

The version of the buffalo on sale now (1.2) had a faster comparitor then previously installed. It will now full support 192kHz S/PDIF. If you have an older Buffalo (1.0 or 1.1) and would like the comparitor upgraded, I will do the mod for free, you just need to send it to me. I can also send out a replacement comparitor, but it is not a trivial job if the terminal block has been installed already.


----------



## OverlordXenu

Sorry if this was asked/answered earlier in the thread...this thread is quite long.

 Would it be possible to use 4 boards for 8 channels of output? Or rather, surround sound. 7 speakers + sub.


----------



## BrianDonegan

Sure. You would need some way of dividing the surround signals though into four stereo streams.

 -b


----------



## OverlordXenu

So all I would need them is some way to get the digital surround out of the HDMI and into I2S? Great.


----------



## swt61

Adorable avatar pic Brian! Your daughter?


----------



## n_maher

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Adorable avatar pic Brian! Your daughter?_

 

That is Twisted Pear's CFO, unless she got promoted from when I met her.


----------



## liwei

Have there been any comparisons between this dac and other commercial products like the VDA2/Benchmark/Lavry/Stello? I was actually about to pull the trigger on a VDA2 but decided to browse the DIY section and found this thread.


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


 Adorable avatar pic Brian! Your daughter? 
 

Ouch. That's my son. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 Have there been any comparisons between this dac and other commercial products like the VDA2/Benchmark/Lavry/Stello? I was actually about to pull the trigger on a VDA2 but decided to browse the DIY section and found this thread. 
 

I have only heard the Benchmark, but, well, do you want my opinion?


----------



## liwei

Sure. I'd like to get a general feeling of where this dac sits. If it is comparable I think I might actually go the DIY route since it'll probably save me some money and be a fun little side project.


----------



## chobint

haha...when I read that original comment I couldn't help but to sit back and 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I would also appreciate your opinion Brian. I haven't gotten a chance to listen to many other DAC's yet.


----------



## TimmyMac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *liwei* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sure. I'd like to get a general feeling of where this dac sits. If it is comparable I think I might actually go the DIY route since it'll probably *save me some money* and be a fun little side project._

 

Haha...


----------



## n_maher

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ouch. That's my son. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Oh right, the VP of sales and marketing.


----------



## fault151

HI guys, thought id add a pic of my buffalo dac / pous dac all crammed in to the one box. It is not staying like this for long. I need to remove the buffalo in to its own case so i can run them both as seperate units. It sounds great though!


----------



## TheRobbStory

What a beast!


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheRobbStory* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What a beast!_

 

Ha ha, cheers. Its a bit of a mess at the mo, i was just desperate to hear the buffalo working. Eventually it will be neat and tidy in a custom case to match my b22 amp im making. I want the buffalo, b22 psu and b22 amp cases to look like a full set in the same style. Can't wait to get it all made.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ouch. That's my son. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Oops Sorry!

 It's much more evident in that last pic though. In the avatar pic it's dark, and the Senn. shadows made me think it was long hair. For goodness sake don't tell him I thought he was a girl!

 Cute kid though!


----------



## luvdunhill

The Senn veil strikes again!


----------



## swt61

^

 Now that's funny!


----------



## looser101

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *luvdunhill* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Senn veil strikes again!_

 

It's not a veil, it's a blanket.


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


 For goodness sake don't tell him I thought he was a girl! 
 

More importantly, I won't tell his sister!


----------



## Soundfan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 I have only heard the Benchmark, but, well, do you want my opinion?_

 

Yes, please Brian.


----------



## rds

I've decided to setup my Buffalo for usb and spdif inputs. What I'm thinking is I could have the I2S from the usb module (TP one) and the SPDIF connected at the same time and use the dip switches to select the input I wanted to use.
 Does that sound OK?

 It seems I could wire an ON-ON ?PDT switch to flip the correct switches for me rather than opening the case. What I'm wondering is how many poles I would need to switch from I2S to SPDIF?


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rds* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've decided to setup my Buffalo for usb and spdif inputs. What I'm thinking is I could have the I2S from the usb module (TP one) and the SPDIF connected at the same time and use the dip switches to select the input I wanted to use.
 Does that sound OK?

 It seems I could wire an ON-ON ?PDT switch to flip the correct switches for me rather than opening the case. What I'm wondering is how many poles I would need to switch from I2S to SPDIF?_

 

You will need to cycle the DAC power to make the switch changes effective. The uC reads them only at power up.


----------



## n_maher

Brian,

 Do you think there's any reason to use I2S over SPDIF if one was using the MUX to select between a couple SPDIF inputs?


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *n_maher* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Brian,

 Do you think there's any reason to use I2S over SPDIF if one was using the MUX to select between a couple SPDIF inputs?_

 

Faster locking.


----------



## bte

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HI guys, thought id add a pic of my buffalo dac / pous dac all crammed in to the one box. It is not staying like this for long. I need to remove the buffalo in to its own case so i can run them both as seperate units. It sounds great though! 





_

 

Where are you guys getting the transformer covers? Looks great and probably helps with any stray fields?


----------



## n_maher

I believe those are potted transformers, not just covers.


----------



## bte

Makes sense. Any idea on the supplier?

 Also I'm looking for a modern replacement for my Audio Note dac board. With the i/v could this be a drop in? I'm already using the TP power supplies. I just want to be sure it can output correctly to the analog tube stage.


----------



## n_maher

The only place that I know that does potted trafos is SumR in Canada but the ones pictured definitely didn't come from there. But it's worth noting that Brian and Russ have both built DACs with unshielded trafos and didn't see any adverse effects on the output.


----------



## Pars

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *n_maher* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The only place that I know that does potted trafos is SumR in Canada but the ones pictured definitely didn't come from there. But it's worth noting that Brian and Russ have both built DACs with unshielded trafos and didn't see any adverse effects on the output._

 

They say Toroid on them... Toroid Corp.?


----------



## luvdunhill

here's another source, for small potted transformers:

PLITRON - audio transformers - toroidal transformers - toroids - output transformers - current transformers - power transformers - medical isolation transformers - power toroids


----------



## Pars

I see that Plitron has gone to a $250 minimum order.... grrrr.


----------



## luvdunhill

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pars* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see that Plitron has gone to a $250 minimum order.... grrrr._

 

just shop the custom stuff, I believe it doesn't apply there. That said, every order I place with Plitron is well over $250. All it really takes is 3 items and you are there.


----------



## digger945

Must have been only recently as I ordered a torroid from thier surplus stock and the shipping was more than the traffo. $24 for the torroid, $25 for the shipping, probably about a month ago.
 Maybe my situation applies to surplus stock only, of which thier selection is somewhat limited.


----------



## jamato8

Is there any real review and comparison of the Buffalo dac to other dacs. I haven't seen the dac chip showing up in players when I google. Any ideas?


----------



## n_maher

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there any real review and comparison of the Buffalo dac to other dacs. I haven't seen the dac chip showing up in players when I google. Any ideas?_

 

The chip is still pretty new and it'll take time for it to get integrated into commercial products. The first commercial effort that I know of is Headroom's standalone Desktop DAC which is due out sometime around April 1st of next year. For large market vendors I suspect you may start to see stuff come out next year, maybe the year after. But back to how it sounds, from what I've heard from both DIY builders and a few other folks it should be able to be made to sound very good. Flagship good.


----------



## jantze

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there any real review and comparison of the Buffalo dac to other dacs. I haven't seen the dac chip showing up in players when I google. Any ideas?_

 

McIntosh MCD500 SACD/CD Player uses the same chip.

http://www.esstech.com/IR/Pr_2008/Mc...ase%208.28.pdf


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *n_maher* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For large market vendors I suspect you may start to see stuff come out next year, maybe the year after._

 

Samsung announced a couple of months back that they would be putting the low end chip in a BluRay player for the 7.1 output. Not sure what came of it. But it wouldn't be a particularly good example of what the chip is capable of anyway


----------



## n3rdling

I've never soldered before and really want one of these DACs; would this project be too difficult for a newbie? I was thinking of maybe starting out with a cmoy or pimeta, then building a mini3, and then building a SOHA or something. Do you think this would be a good route to take to get my skills up to par for building a Buffalo? Also, how does one go about hiring a builder in case I go that route instead? Thanks for the help


----------



## n_maher

I'm my opinion it would make a pretty bad first project. Start slow, work your way up to it, don't rush in and waste several hundred dollars.


----------



## minivan

the buffalo is my first project prior to this i only make a few pair of cables for myself. 
 just do a lot of research and preparation before hand and u should be fine. 
 to my surprise getting it to work and doing the soldering work is the easiest part, casing is the hardest part due to lack of proper tools.


----------



## Jose R

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *n_maher* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The chip is still pretty new and it'll take time for it to get integrated into commercial products. The first commercial effort that I know of is Headroom's standalone Desktop DAC which is due out sometime around April 1st of next year. For large market vendors I suspect you may start to see stuff come out next year, maybe the year after. But back to how it sounds, from what I've heard from both DIY builders and a few other folks it should be able to be made to sound very good. Flagship good._

 

Gordon Rankin is also using the chip in the high-end "ultimate" version of his usb crimson dac. Wavelength Audio, USB DACS, Crimson, Cosecant, Brick, Proton, Tube DACs

 Dac starts at $7,500 for basic version.


----------



## diego

Finished my Buffalo !! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The layout looks strange but I needed it that way to leave space for one more PS and 4 extra modules. An additional transformer would also fit on the side by the power switch. I also wanted the 115 ac lines and transformers as far from the ivy and signal cables as possible. Here are a few pics:


----------



## Russ White

Great job! I like it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 How is it working out?


----------



## diego

So far it's working perfectly. It sounds great with my B22, it's very detailed and clean sounding wich shouldn't be a surprise with it's noise and jitter specs. It performs very good in every area, I can't find anything wrong with it.

 At first, I wasn't sure I had the grounding right. My B22 is a 2 box amp, and I'm using the B22 case as signal ground for both, while the Buffalo and S22 cases are AC ground. However, it works fine because I don't have any kind of noise.

 Anyway, thanks a lot for this great sounding DAC.


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *diego* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 At first, I wasn't sure I had the grounding right. My B22 is a 2 box amp, and I'm using the B22 case as signal ground for both, while the Buffalo and S22 cases are AC ground. However, it works fine because I don't have any kind of noise.

 Anyway, thanks a lot for this great sounding DAC._

 

Is it possible that you could get interference from within the b22 amp with using the buffalo dac? I am in the process of making my b22 amp and when i tired it with my buffalo dac, i ended up with interference and noise.

 edit: At this point im not sure if it's the buffalo dac or my b22 that is causing the noise. I know my buffalo plays perfect so im wondering if its the combination of the two together, or just my b22 wiring?


----------



## n_maher

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_edit: At this point im not sure if it's the buffalo dac or my b22 that is causing the noise. I know my buffalo plays perfect so im wondering if its the combination of the two together, or just my b22 wiring?_

 

I got my Buffalo temporarily cased last night and should have a chance to try it with a Beta22 that I built some time in the next couple of nights. I'll let you know how it goes but it certainly worked fine feeding a mini³ last night while doing initial testing.

 Ghetto Buffalo


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *n_maher* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got my Buffalo temporarily cased last night and should have a chance to try it with a Beta22 that I built some time in the next couple of nights. I'll let you know how it goes but it certainly worked fine feeding a mini³ last night while doing initial testing.

 Ghetto Buffalo



_

 

Ok yeh let me know please. I had to install a ground breaker in the buffalo because i kept getting unwated sound. It worked perfect now. I wondered if it was that which could effect the b22 when they are paired together?


----------



## sid_

I have noticed that when building amplifiers, often the transformer and power supply in are placed in a separate chassis to help eliminate interference, yet builders generally don't seem to apply this same '2-box strategy' to DAC builds. I was just wondering why this is?


----------



## n_maher

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sid_* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have noticed that when building amplifiers, often the transformer and power supply in are placed in a separate chassis to help eliminate interference, yet builders generally don't seem to apply this same '2-box strategy' to DAC builds. I was just wondering why this is?_

 

In this case the designer stated that even with the transformers directly next to the pcbs there was no induced noise. 

 For amplifiers you are typically dealing with a much larger transformer, hence a much larger field of interference and a greater possibility of induced noise.


----------



## Russ White

There is actually a very common sense reason. You do not want long wires that carry DC voltage to the DAC. You are just asking to pickup noise even if it is common mode. By putting it all in one case you get much more optimal wiring.

 By using Toroid your risk of EMI from the transformer is practically nil as long as you use common sense.

 Cheers!
 Russ


----------



## fault151

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Russ White* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is actually a very common sense reason. You do not want long wires that carry DC voltage to the DAC. You are just asking to pickup noise even if it is common mode. By putting it all in one case you get much more optimal wiring.

 By using Toroid your risk of EMI from the transformer is practically nil as long as you use common sense.

 Cheers!
 Russ_

 


 Russ, could using a ground breaker in my buffalo dac cause me problems inside the b22 amp with interference and a ground loop?


----------



## Russ White

GND should always be low impedance. It sounds like you have some sort of GND loop. I really don't know much about the b22.


----------



## fault151

Yeh thats what i thought. I might have to try a ground breaker inside the amp unless i can find why it may be doing it.

 Ok thats for your reply


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeh thats what i thought. I might have to try a ground breaker inside the amp unless i can find why it may be doing it.

 Ok thats for your reply_

 

Are you tying your signal grounds to mains earth? Don't.


----------



## pelayostyle

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rds* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a question about SPDIF vs I2S on the Buffalo. 
 I will run my Buffalo from a computer source and am wondering whether it's beneficial to use a usb input. 
 My understanding is that SPDIF is clocked by it's source and so if I'm using a pc soundcard as my source I will be using it's (less than stellar) clocking. However,I also think I read that the Buffalo will reclock the SPDIF signal.
 So is there any sound quality advantage to using a usb module rather than using the SPDIF of my soundcard?_

 

It appears that this question was never answered and I, too, was looking for the answer to this. Thanks


----------



## BrianDonegan

If you are planning on using any hi-res source material, then S/PDIF is the way to go, as the USB module is limited to 16bit/48kHz. Either way, the Buffalo will be re-clocking the information and using it's on board XO. If you are just listening to ripped CDs, the USB module will work very well.


----------



## rds

My solution is to use both (with usb spdif out) and switch between them with a dpdt switch.
 I think Brian mentioned somewhere that this is fine, but you will have to power cycle after you flip the source for the change to take effect.


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rds* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My solution is to use both (with usb spdif out) and switch between them with a dpdt switch.
 I think Brian mentioned somewhere that this is fine, but you will have to power cycle after you flip the source for the change to take effect._

 

You should not have to cycle power to switch S/PDIF sources, only if you are switching between S/PDIF and I2S sources.


----------



## rds

Quote:


 You should not have to cycle power to switch S/PDIF sources, only if you are switching between S/PDIF and I2S sources. 
 

Good point 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 That's even better


----------



## pelayostyle

Thank you Brian. I noticed the Buff is back in stock...my wife is going to be so pissed =(


----------



## Baraccuda

Hello together,

 I am from Germany and my english is not so good. I hope anybody can help me for my next Diy project:





The Buffalo Dac (220 V EU Version) with both balanced (2 XLR) and one single-ended (chinch) outputs.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 With Chinch Input and perhaps TOSLINK optical input.
 Question 1: Which digital input for the Buffalo is considered best?

 Before I order I have still different questions:
 Can you explain to me which construction units I need for this project to completely.

 I mean the following:
 1. Buffalo DAC
 2. IVY Active I/V Stage
 3. Low-Current Dual Power Supply Kit (for Buffalo)
 4. Low-Current Bipolar Power Supply Kit (for IVY)
 5. One Power Transformer for Buffalo 9+9V
 6. One Power Transformer for IVY: 15+15V
 7. Perhaps: TOSLINK Optical Input Module Kit ?

And which units additionally?
 8. OTTO (Switching Module)? For which I need Otto? When Yes – Must I order the Switch Kit= 30,00 USD plus Switch Bord=14,00 USD ?? Must I have for OTTO an additional Transformator? When yes - 9+9 or 15+15V ???
 9. ?
 10. ?

 Regards
 Baraccuda


----------



## FallenAngel

Baraccuda: I'll try to help.

 Best input: I2S from digital transport would likely be best. If that is not possible, then I would say that very good coax S/PDIF (impedance matched with pulse transformer on output of source) is second best.

 To complete the DAC you will _need_ 1, 3 and 5. What you likely want is 1-7, or wait until Counterpoint I/V or Mesh output stage. Lots of choices


----------



## Baraccuda

FallenAngel:

 In your opinion I do not need IVY for balanced and one single-ended outputs?
 Can I go direct from the Buffalo to the exits? Without I/V stage?


 Baraccuda


----------



## FallenAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Baraccuda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_FallenAngel:

 In your opinion I do not need IVY for balanced and one single-ended outputs?
 Can I go direct from the Buffalo to the exits? Without I/V stage?


 Baraccuda_

 

You don't "need" the IVY as the Buffalo can be set up as voltage out. You will still need some sort of output stage in front of it to block DC.


----------



## TSF

Hi, I got a couple question. Can i use a 15+15V transformer for the buffalo or do i need a 9+9V? I have a spare 15+15V, if i could use it, it would be easier for me. Also, is there a way to use 2 spdif sources(one from toslink through D1 and one from coax) without the use of a switch?

 Thx.


----------



## diego

- You can use a 15v transformer.

 - No, you need a switch unless you want to reconfigure the dac every time you want to change inputs.

 Diego


----------



## zzodhi

What's the optimum height in spacing between the buffalo and the IVY when stacking them?


----------



## diego

I used the included standoffs which are just right. They are about an inch but I'm not sure and I'm too lazy to open my DAC.


----------



## zzodhi

They included two 1/2 inch. Wondered if 1/2 was too close but could use slightly shorter wire between the two


----------



## fault151

Hi guys is anyone else having troubles with the buffalo dac and using optical and coax connections? My problem is i had the optical and coax connected via spdif and i could only get a maximum of 48khz via my optical input on a mac. Brian told me to change my inputs and connect them to the D1input instead of spdif. This worked in terms of my sample rate going up to the maximum 96khz but i now am not able to use my coax connection when my optical is connected in this way. 

 Any ideas why not?


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *diego* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I used the included standoffs which are just right. They are about an inch but I'm not sure and I'm too lazy to open my DAC. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The standoffs in the kit are (4) .5" f-f, (4) .625" m-f and (8) .25" 4-40 screws with captive star washer. These come with all of our kits (except power supplies which lack the stacking .625" m-f.


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys is anyone else having troubles with the buffalo dac and using optical and coax connections? My problem is i had the optical and coax connected via spdif and i could only get a maximum of 48khz via my optical input on a mac. Brian told me to change my inputs and connect them to the D1input instead of spdif. This worked in terms of my sample rate going up to the maximum 96khz but i now am not able to use my coax connection when my optical is connected in this way. 

 Any ideas why not?_

 

The TORX module in the Toslink kit is limited to 96kHz. If you use coax, you should be able to go right up to 192kHz. Note that at that bandwidth, there may be more sensitivity to the wire and routing used.


----------



## zzodhi

I got it up and running. Occasionally I loose lock in one channel. I'm running the ivy with it. I set the voltages about in the middle of the spread that TP recommends. I don't know if that means anything. About every 3rd song it will loose lock in the part of the song and then go on as if nothing happened.

 I ran it all last night and that was the only issue. The I let it run continuously throughout the night to burn it in.

 This morning I still have the loss of lock in the right channel.

 The only thing I did differently from the TP wiring diagram is I did not wire the "-" from the dac to the ivy. as in + G - Since I'm only using single ended I didn't think it mattered so I wired only G/+


 Appreciate anyone's help.


----------



## zzodhi

I'm sorting out the final bits except for the question above.

 One thing is the output is so great - I'm feeding it into a tube output - that I can't go beyond one click on my pre-amp volume knob.

 Can I lower the gain on the ivy somehow?


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


 The only thing I did differently from the TP wiring diagram is I did not wire the "-" from the dac to the ivy. as in + G - Since I'm only using single ended I didn't think it mattered so I wired only G/+ 
 

This will absolutely make a huge difference. Wire all three connections.

 As the for one channel no locking, that is incredibly strange, as the digital lock does not occur on a per-channel basis.

 I would recheck solder connections. If you take the signal directly from the Buffalo (leaving the IVY out) do you still have this problem?


----------



## zzodhi

Later I did hook all three up and the only difference was more digital noise immediately. Unless by not having it hooked up I damages the board? 

 I went over every solder joint touching them up in the ivy and the terminal blocks on the Buffalo. No effect.

 I emailed back and forth to Russ last night. I have the power supplies in a separate ps box that houses the power supplies for the analog stage. There is a 4.5 ft umbilical cord between them. Russ thinks that's the issue however what I don't understand is I was running your supplies to a AN dac board using the exact same set up and never had any issues.

 I could shorten the cord by about a foot - maybe down to 1 meter. Russ wants the ps inches away from the dac/ivy. I really don't want to bring ac into the DCA box. I'm kind of frustrated. Its a lot of work to shorten the umbilical. My pre-amp has a longer umbilical and its a legendary piece with no issues although there no dig equipment in there.

 I might try the output directly from the dac first.


----------



## zzodhi

While this is getting sorted out I wondered what people have found for the optimum operating voltages for the buffalo. There's a pretty wide range.


----------



## luvdunhill

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zzodhi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Russ wants the ps inches away from the dac/ivy._

 

I'd absolutely do this. You will get much better performance than a 2 box solution.


----------



## zzodhi

Yes I ended up doing that and it did make a big difference.

 It didn't solve the issues. Its either a faulty dac board or ps.


----------



## stew1234

I've got my build pretty much all ready except the wiring for the transformer. How exactly do I set the voltages? I have the toroidal transformers from the twisted pear site. Thanks.


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *stew1234* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've got my build pretty much all ready except the wiring for the transformer. How exactly do I set the voltages? I have the toroidal transformers from the twisted pear site. Thanks._

 

Wire the transformer to the power supply, but leave the power supply disconnected from the board you are powering (DAC, IVY, etc). After double-checking that the transformer wiring is correct, apply power.

 Use your voltage meter to measure the voltage at the output terminals on one side. Use a fine blade screw driver to turn the adjustment screw on the trimmer pot on the power supply. You will see the voltage change. Gently adjust the screw until you get the desired voltage at the output.

 Repeat for the other side.

 Disconnect AC then attach the power supply to board you are powering.


----------



## rds

When casing the Buffalo with the transformers in the case is it recommended to ground the case to wall ground and isolate the inputs and outputs from the case?
 What is the best method for grounding the case?


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rds* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When casing the Buffalo with the transformers in the case is it recommended to ground the case to wall ground and isolate the inputs and outputs from the case?_

 

Yes. 

  Quote:


 What is the best method for grounding the case? 
 

Simply tie the mains ground to the chassis near where it enters the case. I typically use a crimp-on terminal and one of the IEC Jack's mounting screws.


----------



## streamerone

I'm hoping to get in on the next round of Buffaloes. I've had fun and success with a couple of tubes amps, now I'm ready to tackle a DIY DAC. Seems like the Buffalo is the one to build. 

 Here's my question:
 I'm hoping to put this in line with some serious gear. Krell pre-amp, Levinson mono-blocks, and Rockport loudspeakers. Am I absolutely high for thinking that this DAC might work nicely in a high-end system? The "DAC" that I'm using now is a Meridian 508.24 CD player. If it had a digital in jack, I probably wouldn't be looking for a new DAC in the first place. The Meridian is exquisite, but it's like 10 years old!

 Anyway, I'd love opinions from anyone willing to share.

 THANKS!

 BTW, I like the name. When used as a verb, "buffalo" means to puzzle or baffle; confuse; mystify. (it's doing that already.)

 But also, to impress or intimidate by a display of power, importance, etc. 

 I'll let you know which one it works out to be after I build mine.


----------



## zzodhi

There's one already built in the marketplace section. You would just need to get the powersupplies from TP.


----------



## rds

For the SPDIF input to the Buffalo (no mux, just rca to buffalo board) do we need to insurance that the rca and wire to the board are 75 ohm? 
 I was just planning to use a regular rca jack and twisted pair.
 What if we are using the mux - do the situation change?


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rds* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For the SPDIF input to the Buffalo (no mux, just rca to buffalo board) do we need to insurance that the rca and wire to the board are 75 ohm? 
 I was just planning to use a regular rca jack and twisted pair.
 What if we are using the mux - do the situation change?_

 

In mine, the coax in connection is all just twisted pair from RCA, and even goes through a relay (OTTO) for switching between coax and an optical module.

 On very rare occasions I get some clicking and popping for a few seconds while trying to lock, but once it is locked it is solid. I'm sure that those who can 'hear' jitter would complain, but MEH......


----------



## diego

I used twisted pair on mine too and there aren't any problems. In fact, the sound is very detailed and clean. In the future, I may "upgrade" it with good digital cable, shielded signal cables and shielded transformers, but I'm doubtful I'll hear any SQ improvement.


----------



## rds

It would be nice to hear Brian or Russ' thoughts on using 75 ohm RCAs and cable (from RCA to DAC board).


----------



## rds

back here Brian suggested using 7VA Amveco transformers for powering a Buffalo.
 That is what I want to do, but I just want to be sure 7VA is enough for powering an IVY with one transformer , and a Buffalo, MUX, volumite and toslink with the other transformer.


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


 It would be nice to hear Brian or Russ' thoughts on using 75 ohm RCAs and cable (from RCA to DAC board). 
 

It can't hurt, but I don't usually bother, unless I am experiencing some sort of problems with reflection (happened once, in some one else's build).

  Quote:


 That is what I want to do, but I just want to be sure 7VA is enough for powering an IVY with one transformer , and a Buffalo, MUX, volumite and toslink with the other transformer. 
 

7VA 7+7 for Buffalo and accessories is fine. 7VA 15+15 will give you ~230ma (115mA per side) which is a little light for an IVY. If you want to keep the 7VA footprint, probably better to use a 12+12V and run 12V rails.


----------



## freeride1685

Hello all! i have been reading this thread for some time but registered this morning to iron out some real basic questions that have been confusing me.

 first off, i see a lot of people running these DACs in line after a standard audio card. it strikes me that if i have a proper signal from my source, such as a blu-ray player, then i won't have to get a seperate audio card at all...that was just a bit confusing. i dont quite understand the concept of having multiple DACs in line with one another, especially of different genres. it seems as though it would cause some sort of problems.

 next, in all these different buffalo mounting configurations, are we mounting this DAC outside of the computer, of putting it flush mounted as if it were a CD player, hard drive, etc? another very simple question but im not quite sure of the answer. i feel that external placement would help with noise but i dont really know how strong the noise inside the case would be, provided the DAC has it's own unique case as well.

 lastly, who can make me one, and where do i sign up? i have no prior experience with soldering and/or work with circuit boards and i dont exactly have the time to learn now. however, i do have the funds and would love to try this out in the near future, provided someone could make me one. anybody who wants to talk about this stuff in more depth can feel free to give me a call at 413.537.3430, or email at morin.christopher1@gmail.com. thanks!

 Chris


----------



## manaox2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *freeride1685* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_first off, i see a lot of people running these DACs in line after a standard audio card. it strikes me that if i have a proper signal from my source, such as a blu-ray player, then i won't have to get a seperate audio card at all...that was just a bit confusing. i dont quite understand the concept of having multiple DACs in line with one another, especially of different genres. it seems as though it would cause some sort of problems._

 

DAC stands for digital to analog converter. The standard audio card in the case you describe is not converting, but only outputting digital data. Therefore, as long as it does bit perfect output and barring an impedance issue AFAIK, it shouldn't be imparting much quality (though in practice, many have said it does). Its not multiple DACs in-line being used though, as the internal sound card is only forwarding its digital data instead of converting it.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *freeride1685* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_next, in all these different buffalo mounting configurations, are we mounting this DAC outside of the computer, of putting it flush mounted as if it were a CD player, hard drive, etc? another very simple question but im not quite sure of the answer. i feel that external placement would help with noise but i dont really know how strong the noise inside the case would be, provided the DAC has it's own unique case as well._

 

Noise in a computer is bad because of the power conditioning when going through all the different components and fans that can create EMI and other small issues. A decent external DAC only uses its enclosure to block interference, with no fans usually, and uses its own dedicated power supply. The noise in the signal can be a great deal better then an internal device in a PC.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *freeride1685* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_lastly, who can make me one, and where do i sign up? i have no prior experience with soldering and/or work with circuit boards and i dont exactly have the time to learn now. however, i do have the funds and would love to try this out in the near future, provided someone could make me one. anybody who wants to talk about this stuff in more depth can feel free to give me a call at 413.537.3430, or email at morin.christopher1@gmail.com. thanks!

 Chris
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Labor and casework would cost a good bit more then parts. You can always contact a professional builder like rockhopper audio, nugget audio, or other professional audio builder to commission a build. (Rockhopper is going to be offering one soon)


----------



## freeride1685

would there be a some benefit in separating the soundcard as well as the DAC from the electrically noisy computer case? i have seen some great outboard models that also give me plenty of flexibility for adding several other components to the system (home recording studio)


----------



## rds

When powering extra modules from the LCDPS (ie MUX, volumite, toslink) is it better to use the digital supply or the analog supply?

 Also, I think I remember reading that people were plugging their high impedance phones directly into the balanced output of the IVY with good results. Is that right?


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rds* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When powering extra modules from the LCDPS (ie MUX, volumite, toslink) is it better to use the digital supply or the analog supply?_

 

Digital I believe.

  Quote:


 Also, I think I remember reading that people were plugging their high impedance phones directly into the balanced output of the IVY with good results. Is that right? 
 

I think it was Russ himself who used a Volumite-controlled Buffalo/IVY straight into balanced phones. I wouldn't try it with the single ended output though.


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


 I think it was Russ himself who used a Volumite-controlled Buffalo/IVY straight into balanced phones. I wouldn't try it with the single ended output though. 
 

IVY's balanced outputs can supply 150mA per channel, plenty to drive even the lowest impedance cans. Make sure you have balanced phones first 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 IVY's SE outputs can drive most phones well, though they can not deliver the kind of current the balanced the balanced outputs can (LME49720). It might be helpful to up the gain of the SE outputs, however, if you are only going to drive phones.


----------



## FallenAngel

I just finished my first Buffalo DAC with IVY I/V. It's replaced the NorthStar m192 I was using and I must say, this really is the best DAC I've ever heard. The NorthStar is an awesome unit, but this just adds that extra bit of resolution and detail that we all love to discover to our favorite pieces of music.

 I'm now feeding it I2S directly from my ESI Juli@ via custom breakout cable. I haven't played with the onboard clock vs ESI Juli@ master clock but will inthe near future. Now if only I can figure out how to make switching between I2S and S/PDIF easy so I can use the X-Fi for its gaming effects when I play games vs listen to music.


----------



## sachu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FallenAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just finished my first Buffalo DAC with IVY I/V. It's replaced the NorthStar m192 I was using and I must say, this really is the best DAC I've ever heard. The NorthStar is an awesome unit, but this just adds that extra bit of resolution and detail that we all love to discover to our favorite pieces of music.

 I'm now feeding it I2S directly from my ESI Juli@ via custom breakout cable. I haven't played with the onboard clock vs ESI Juli@ master clock but will inthe near future. Now if only I can figure out how to make switching between I2S and S/PDIF easy so I can use the X-Fi for its gaming effects when I play games vs listen to music._

 

Thisis very good news indeed.. I am planning to build one of the Buffalos to pair with my ESi Juli@ and use the I2S input


----------



## wackyterbacky

FallenAngel:

 Do you connect the MCLK from the Juli@ to the Buffalo?

 Thanks.


----------



## loreliv

Hi 
 me to read the critique of Lukasz of the new sabre32 today... very beautiful 

http://www.lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/...uffaloDAC.html 

 regards


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wackyterbacky* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_FallenAngel:

 Do you connect the MCLK from the Juli@ to the Buffalo?

 Thanks._

 

Nope.


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *loreliv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi 
 me to read the critique of Lukasz of the new sabre32 today... very beautiful 

http://www.lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/...uffaloDAC.html

 regards_

 

Bad link. Try this instead: BuffaloDAC

 Now I'm sure that the proprietor of that site is a wonderful person...... but the assembly job on that LCDPS looks like it was done by a badly trained monkey. Barely a single part is flush with the board.


----------



## rds

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Bad link. Try this instead: BuffaloDAC

 Now I'm sure that the proprietor of that site is a wonderful person...... but the assembly job on that LCDPS looks like it was done by a badly trained monkey. Barely a single part is flush with the board._


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rds* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_



_

 

Oh...... oh dear......


----------



## digger945

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FallenAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just finished my first Buffalo DAC with IVY I/V. It's replaced the NorthStar m192 I was using and I must say, this really is the best DAC I've ever heard. The NorthStar is an awesome unit, but this just adds that extra bit of resolution and detail that we all love to discover to our favorite pieces of music._

 

You really didn't have to say all that, did you?
 *shakes head, get out wallet and counts*


----------



## minivan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FallenAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm now feeding it I2S directly from my ESI Juli@ via custom breakout cable. I haven't played with the onboard clock vs ESI Juli@ master clock but will inthe near future. Now if only I can figure out how to make switching between I2S and S/PDIF easy so I can use the X-Fi for its gaming effects when I play games vs listen to music._

 

i am also feed the buffalo i2s by tapping the is2 signal from my emu 1212m sound card. 
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/de...lo-dac-402733/
 with the clock run independent of the data, i2s is better then spdif, but from this post
diyAudio Forums - Die, SPDIF ! Design of the Ethernet DAC - Page 1
 it seem i2s signal may need isolation from pc noise using optocoupler 
 has anyone tried them?


----------



## PascalT

Will an IVY module for the Sabre32 really be necessary or make a huge difference?


----------



## manaox2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PascalT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Will an IVY module for the Sabre32 really be necessary or make a huge difference?_

 

The IVY II is built in, so you won't need a separate module for analog output. All DAC's need an analog output stage for you to have analog output I would think.


----------



## TimmyMac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *manaox2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The IVY II is built in, so you won't need a separate module for analog output. All DAC's need an analog output stage for you to have analog output I would think._

 

Most DACs tend to output analogue...


----------



## SteveZ

Hence the name; Digital to Analog Converter


----------



## sachu

I really want to know what the pricing might be on this thing...so the DAC board is all encompassing?..except for of course the SPDIF receiver board and PSU.


----------



## naamanf

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sachu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I really want to know what the pricing might be on this thing...so the DAC board is all encompassing?..except for of course the SPDIF receiver board and PSU._

 

No receiver required. Just need a couple of power supplies. I would guess about $200-250 for the new board.


----------



## sachu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *naamanf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No receiver required. Just need a couple of power supplies. I would guess about $200-250 for the new board._

 

Wow..that is quite impressive.

 I have a couple of Super Jung Reg boards ready for this..this is going to be interesting.


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sachu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow..that is quite impressive._

 

My personal guess is that it will be more than $250. The old Buffalo was $295 with a single IVY and two power supplies ($45 ea). Russ has also stated a couple of times that it will be more expensive than the old Buffalo.

 So I would think maybe $300-350 for the Buffalo, or around $400 with two power supplies. Still an incredible bargain at any price under $500.


----------



## Wilf

Prices are up at TP.

 $469 (£317 or AU$660) for the board, $549 inc. PSUs

 I may be waiting for the tweakers board...


----------



## MrMajestic2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Wilf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Prices are up at TP.

 $469 (£317 or AU$660) for the board, $549 inc. PSUs

 I may be waiting for the tweakers board..._

 

Me too....maybe.....slowly reaching for wallet.........wife pulling gun.....


----------



## Russ White

Hey guys,

 Just a note about the Buffalo32S pricing, we are doing our best to keep the Buffalo32S price reasonable. The price reflects the increase in cost of the components used along with a similar increase in production costs.

 For example, the clock, resistors, caps, VREGs, etc are all more expensive on this board, and there are more of them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 This board has something like 4 times (I will have to count) as many components as the older Buffalo. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 One example is that we found that resistor matching plays a key role in distortion of the output stage. So all the Rs in that section are .1% thin film SMT types which are not cheap. This same approach was taken for caps etc. We did not skimp on anything. We wanted it to be a world class DAC. I wanted the layout and implementation to live up to the promise of the chip.

 Add to that the cost of assembly and testing and the time it takes to do all this and it all adds up. Keep in mind also that Brian and I have spent (so far) hundreds of hours designing,producing, and testing this beast too.

 Now having heard the Buffalo32S DAC, I can tell you I couldn't be more satisfied with the result. The increase quality is more than the increase in cost.

 Brian and I really appreciate your support and welcome your feedback.

 Cheers!
 Russ


----------



## PascalT

What else is needed on top of the board to assemble the DAC? It's more expensive than I thought but I am sure it's worth it.


----------



## MrMajestic2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PascalT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What else is needed on top of the board to assemble the DAC? It's more expensive than I thought but I am sure it's worth it._

 

Not much unless you want more SPDIF inputs than one. In that case you will need the SPDIF Mux module.


----------



## naamanf

Don't forget both powersupplies, transformers for the the powersupplies, case, all the misc connectors, and wire.


----------



## Wilf

@Russ.

 I don't think anyone will be upset at the in creased price, especially as you have gone to the lengths described to make it as good as possible, and it includes the IVY2.

 For some of us though, it just means saving a bit longer, and probably waiting for the next round.

 It's amazing what you guys do for us DIY chaps!


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Russ White* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just a note about the Buffalo32S pricing, we are doing our best to keep the Buffalo32S price reasonable......_

 

It is more than I expected, but still quite reasonable. You will sell a truckload of these.

 Though for me having an existing Buffalo, I will wait and see what happens with various combos of IVY II, Counterpoint and Ventus


----------



## oneplustwo

I've been waiting for this to become available since I got my active ground B22 done! So I would just need the board, the two power supplies, and a toslink module if I just wanted to use that one input method? And I guess two toroids and all the other things like IEC, output jacks, power switch, wire, enclosure, etc... Hmm... this isn't going to cheap. Might be time to start selling some other stuff.


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oneplustwo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been waiting for this to become available since I got my active ground B22 done! So I would just need the board, the two power supplies, and a toslink module if I just wanted to use that one input method? And I guess two toroids and all the other things like IEC, output jacks, power switch, wire, enclosure, etc..._

 

Yes.


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oneplustwo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm... this isn't going to cheap. Might be time to start selling some other stuff._

 

Keep an eye on the for sale sections. Many of the bleeding edgers might upgrade their existing Buffalo to the new one. These 'old' modules are still phenomenal performers, and you might be lucky to pick one up for a song.


----------



## oneplustwo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Keep an eye on the for sale sections. Many of the bleeding edgers might upgrade their existing Buffalo to the new one. These 'old' modules are still phenomenal performers, and you might be lucky to pick one up for a song._

 

That's a good idea. I was looking forward to building again, but if I can find a used one at a good price, that would leave money for a different project I suppose.


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oneplustwo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's a good idea. I was looking forward to building again, but if I can find a used one at a good price, that would leave money for a different project I suppose._

 

I actually think you will find a lot of people just selling the DAC/IVY modules. They will keep their existing cases, wiring etc. and just drop the new Buffalo32 module right in there.

 Well, that is what I would do anyway, *IF* I was going to upgrade.


----------



## oneplustwo

Beefy - Can you comment on the gamma 1 vs. your Buffalo? I know they're in different leagues, but I've actually been happy with my gamma. Problem is, it's the only standalone DAC I've ever listened to so I'm trying to get a feel for how much improvement/difference to expect. Is it like minimax to B22 kind of difference? Or more like headphone jack out of the computer to B22 kind of difference?


----------



## Beefy

I've never sat down to properly compare the two, I'm sorry


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I actually think you will find a lot of people just selling the DAC/IVY modules. They will keep their existing cases, wiring etc. and just drop the new Buffalo32 module right in there.

 Well, that is what I would do anyway, *IF* I was going to upgrade._

 

beefy: what did the casing and PSUs cost you?? and do you think I could modify the design to run off 2 x LLP just wondering if you think I could come out of it with a really nice all out buffalo sabre 32 in a nice, but not over the top case, for $850-1000USD?? I have all the hookup wire and RCA sockets I couple ever need for the job and likely a few other bits and pieces as well. also thinking I might put one in a 2 box beta22 in the amp case and leave the o22's in the second case. could save on $$$ this way?? your thoughts?? this way I could also spend up some more on the casing and maybe get the laser cutting done like johns. since I also have design and prepress experience wouldnt be too hard for me to spit one out. I figure the time and stress saved by doing it that way is worth it as it leaves me free to be doing other work.

 I figure with those 2 pieces of kit out of the way, I might be able to fend off upgraditus for a while


----------



## BrianDonegan

I built my current Buffalo/IVY into a Hammond 1455. I have not checked, but I think the 32s can be shoehorned in there as well. I will look at it tonight if I can. I can also post some pics of the old Buffalo. 

 It took a little trickery to make it work.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I built my current Buffalo/IVY into a Hammond 1455. I have not checked, but I think the 32s can be shoehorned in there as well. I will look at it tonight if I can. I can also post some pics of the old Buffalo. 

 It took a little trickery to make it work._

 

wow, very nice. def keen to have a look at that; even if it were a temporary solution. I would sell my RME fireface if I got one of these happening and could then finance my beta22 quicker than anticipated. as i'm not spending so much time recording/ and/or using the inputs on it of late and have only been really keeping it on hand as it has a nice solid clock that makes everything sound good if clocked of it. plus its my only balanced source at the moment and my powered monitors sound sooo much better balanced as they are right next to 2 massive CRT displays not that the speakers are getting too much airtime of late since I finished my woody denons

 what case?? 1455801?? or a longer one??


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_wow, very nice. def keen to have a look at that; even if it were a temporary solution. I would sell my RME fireface if I got one of these happening and could then finance my beta22 quicker than anticipated. as i'm not spending so much time recording/ and/or using the inputs on it of late and have only been really keeping it on hand as it has a nice solid clock that makes everything sound good if clocked of it. plus its my only balanced source at the moment and my powered monitors sound sooo much better balanced as they are right next to 2 massive CRT displays not that the speakers are getting too much airtime of late since I finished my woody denons

 what case?? 1455801?? or a longer one??_

 

1455T2202BK

 8.66 x 6.3 x 2.1


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_beefy: what did the casing and PSUs cost you??_

 

My whole Buffalo cost me AU$780. That was back when the USD/AUD was 0.93...... it is now hovering around 0.7.

 And that was with just a cheap 1U rackmount case from Altronics, about $40 at the time, now $56. Anything more exotic than that and the cost starts multiplying very rapidly - if you can even find anything locally.

  Quote:


 just wondering if you think I could come out of it with a really nice all out buffalo sabre 32 in a nice, but not over the top case, for $850-1000USD?? 
 

Price it up and see 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Shipping for cases will be the killer. But I would be very surprised if you couldn't do it.

  Quote:


 also thinking I might put one in a 2 box beta22 in the amp case and leave the o22's in the second case. could save on $$$ this way?? your thoughts?? 
 

I wouldn't ever put them in the same box. But that is just my opinion......


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My whole Buffalo cost me AU$780. That was back when the USD/AUD was 0.93...... it is now hovering around 0.7._

 

hmmm and that was before the price rise with the new version too. 
  Quote:


 And that was with just a cheap 1U rackmount case from Altronics, about $40 at the time, now $56. Anything more exotic than that and the cost starts multiplying very rapidly - if you can even find anything locally. 
 

yeah well if I was going to do anything local it would likely be with the mob that john got the second, cheaper quote from for his beta22, the one that was too late. and if I did do the buffalo first in its own case (since I need a DAC more than I need an amp right now) it would be a LOT smaller than his case. that way I dont have to pay much shipping; could turn out cheaper.





  Quote:


 Price it up and see 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Shipping for cases will be the killer. But I would be very surprised if you couldn't do it. 
 

 hehe.. I deserved that; was just wondering to see if you had priced I higher end one; basically just being lazy I guess; was 4am or something.



 [/QUOTE]I wouldn't ever put them in the same box. But that is just my opinion......[/QUOTE]

 yeah well ideally I agree with you; but I would put a dac in the same case as a beta22 before I would put the o22 in the same case as the beta22.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_1455T2202BK

 8.66 x 6.3 x 2.1_

 

thanks; I can get that local and have spoken with a distributor of hammond direct a few months ago for supplying cases for capped docks. They were about half the price that Farnell charge; but then that isnt saying much LOL


----------



## rds

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can also post some pics of the old Buffalo. 

 It took a little trickery to make it work._

 

Please do. I'm working on something similar.


----------



## BrianDonegan

Here is an album of pictures of the Buffalo in a Hammond. This is my daily listener at work with HD650s straight off the IVY. (At home I use an Opus.)

Picasa Web Albums - Brian - Hammond Buffa...


----------



## manaox2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here is an album of pictures of the Buffalo in a Hammond. This is my daily listener at work with HD650s straight off the IVY. (At home I use an Opus.)

Picasa Web Albums - Brian - Hammond Buffa..._

 

Thanks Brian! Awesome ideas, very nice build.


----------



## BrianDonegan

Thanks! I have another case and will see how well the 32s fits (will take a few pics).


----------



## BrianDonegan

Ok, added a few pics of the 32s in a Hammond with two power supplies and connectors. Looks possible.


----------



## TimJo

That's looking good Brian.


----------



## qusp

very nice Brian 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ; thanks a lot for that; hmm I wonder if buffalo could be made transportable LOL. I have a regulated 18v power supply I use for powering ipods, laptops and amps on the GO. has 3 simultaneous outputs that can be adjusted to whatever voltage you like. so I could make the PSU and dac modular and power by battery on the go or at home with a dedicated PSU. hmmm just thinking out loud. havent given it much thought only just thought of it then as would be incredible to be able to use a dac like this or the opus with my iriver and lisa. would have to limit the outputs, or again make the outputs modular, well they are already in the standard build, so would be easy enough to do that. 


 man this stuff is definately a sickness; to which there is no permenant cure. only baindaid fixes (purchases)


----------



## ttnl

Hi, I want to build a Buffalo DAC, but first I would like to know the complexity degree of the project? How complex is it comparing to building a B22? Is the price for the kit on the Twisted Pear website covering everything except the enclosure? Also, look like the Buffalo DAC has only coaxial input, but I saw the Rockhopper Buffalo DAC with USB, Toslink and coaxial inputs. Does Buffalo DAC support USB and Toslink inputs? Thanks.


----------



## penger

Do some more research on the Twisted Pear site and you should be able to answer all those questions. I would say easier to build that a B22. The kit for the buffalo still needs the transformers and wiring, etc. It does support USB and Toslink... there are modules on the site designed for this purpose.


----------



## MASantos

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ttnl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, I want to build a Buffalo DAC, but first I would like to know the complexity degree of the project? How complex is it comparing to building a B22? Is the price for the kit on the Twisted Pear website covering everything except the enclosure? Also, look like the Buffalo DAC has only coaxial input, but I saw the Rockhopper Buffalo DAC with USB, Toslink and coaxial inputs. Does Buffalo DAC support USB and Toslink inputs? Thanks._

 

It does if you add a usb input module and/or a toslink module. If you want to use the 3, you can add the spdif MUX input selector.

 It will increse the price quite a bit, so if you only nee one of them no need to spend the money on the others.


----------



## sid_

Are the new Buffalo DAC boards even being offered as DIY modules? I realize that Twisted Pear have offered some DIY stuff in the past, but the site isn't listing an option to buy the new Buffalo kit in unassembled form.


----------



## penger

I believe there's supposed to be a DIY board coming out in the future for people who like to tweak.


----------



## BrianDonegan

Pre-orders have been announced.


----------



## emelius

available tonight then again tomorrow
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...

 i'm looking for a builder/assembler...pm me if interested...

 cheers and i hope you're quick on the draw...


----------



## FallenAngel

Sold out in 3 minutes?


----------



## naamanf

I think it was more like less than two.


----------



## MrMajestic2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *naamanf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think it was more like less than two._

 

Less than one I'd say. Unless something went wrong as usual.


----------



## BrianDonegan

Less then one. This is ridiculous. I thought my code was broken.


----------



## MrMajestic2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Less then one. This is ridiculous. I thought my code was broken._

 

May I ask how many went up for sale?


----------



## naamanf

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Less then one. This is ridiculous. I thought my code was broken._

 

Looks like you might be able to get that AMC Gremlin you always wanted after all


----------



## solarstabi

Good quick link to Paypal.
 Impressive.
 Now just gotta wait patiently for delivery.


----------



## ttnl

Wow, the DACs are gone within 1 min. I had small problem with Paypal due to NonScript program on my browser. I am not sure if the transaction go through or not, but I do receive a receipt from Paypal. When I check back, all are gone. Impressive!!!

 So, do we need a Volumite control for the new Buffalo32? Also, why do we have the option for 2 or 3 power supplies? I though we only need 2 power supplies


----------



## emelius

i didn't get home in time...was gonna gnab two...wasn't about to try to pull it off via the iPhone hehe...

 i'll try for one tomorrow...is anyone volunteering to build me one?...haha i wish i had the time to do it myself...


----------



## TimmyMac

Also, why do we have the option for 2 or 3 power supplies? I though we only need 2 power supplies[/QUOTE]

 You could probably run it off a single bipolar supply if you wanted. 3 is if you want to run separate power supplies on each IVY channel I'm assuming.


----------



## emelius

here comes round two!...

 i found a builder guys, thanks...

 it's like waiting in line for concert tickets...only there is no line and i'm a dork...


----------



## FallenAngel

Got mine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Wow, that really did last under 1 minute, sometimes insomnia has benefits


----------



## emelius

i clicked add to cart and it was gone before it got there...sold out in seconds...

 glad you got in...


----------



## MrMajestic2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FallenAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got mine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Wow, that really did last under 1 minute, sometimes insomnia has benefits 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Got mine too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thank god this was during daytime here in Sweden.


----------



## emelius

stupid work...stupid iPhone...hmph...


----------



## qusp

wow, looks like I better forget about this one then. I dont have the time to just be sitting by the computer to get one of these. i'd love to get one if there was reasoinable supplies listed. oh well


----------



## Russ White

Hey guys, this was the very first batch of these PCBs. This is the batch we used for prototypes. There is no way we could get huge quantities of an untested board. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The next batch will be much larger and not long in coming. We are talking weeks not months. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now that we know the PCB/Circuit is fine we can order as many as we like.

 Cheers!
 Russ


----------



## BrianDonegan

I want to mention that, although the next order will be larger, this was not a small number of units. It will take me several days just to pack up these orders.


----------



## emelius

it's ok...we're just wanting to get started on our whizzbang se & balanced dac/amp combos with all the bells and whistles...

 i lined up a builder (and backup builder) and we were going to sit down and make a parts list...

 now i'm sitting on a tax refund that ain't gonna make it to the next round...

 i'm anxious to see everyone's build pics, though...


----------



## Ferrari

Brian, what is the dimensions of the new PCB of the Buffalo32s DACs in millimeters?
 May I assume that it's twice the size of the previvous Buffalo DAC?
 Thanks!


----------



## Alcaudon

I find the buffalo very interesting and I may be building one in the future, but I'm quite ignorant about dacs (only built a couple of aliens), so please excuse me if I ask something stupid 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 Does this new buffalo work either se or balanced? Can you switch between se and balanced outputs and inputs directly interfacing the dac?

 Also... I see that it has an integrated IVY, so I assume that you don't need to add anything else (apart from the two power supplies, of course), am I right?

 Is it possible to add the USB receiver module to this DAC???

 Many thanks!!!!!


----------



## MrMajestic2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alcaudon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I find the buffalo very interesting and I may be building one in the future, but I'm quite ignorant about dacs (only built a couple of aliens), so please excuse me if I ask something stupid 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 Does this new buffalo work either se or balanced? Can you switch between se and balanced outputs and inputs directly interfacing the dac?

 Also... I see that it has an integrated IVY, so I assume that you don't need to add anything else (apart from the two power supplies, of course), am I right?

 Is it possible to add the USB receiver module to this DAC???

 Many thanks!!!!!_

 

Its both SE and Balanced at the same time.

 Yes, you just need two powersupplies.

 You can add a USB module that will connect directly to the DAC if you dont need multiple inputs.


----------



## MrMajestic2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ferrari* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Brian, what is the dimensions of the new PCB of the Buffalo32s DACs in millimeters?
 May I assume that it's twice the size of the previvous Buffalo DAC?
 Thanks!_

 

I asked this on diyaudio and its twice the size of the "old" Buffalo.


----------



## TimJo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ferrari* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Brian, what is the dimensions of the new PCB of the Buffalo32s DACs in millimeters?
 May I assume that it's twice the size of the previvous Buffalo DAC?
 Thanks!_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrMajestic2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I asked this on diyaudio and its twice the size of the "old" Buffalo._

 

This might help visualize the size and layout. Brian posted some photos of the new board.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5601754-post532.html


----------



## Alcaudon

Many thanks for the reply MrMajestic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrMajestic2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Its both SE and Balanced at the same time._

 

So you don't need to switch between se and balanced operation, both outputs are always "on"?

 Excuse my noobness


----------



## MrMajestic2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alcaudon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Many thanks for the reply MrMajestic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 So you don't need to switch between se and balanced operation, both outputs are always "on"?

 Excuse my noobness 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

No need to switch.


----------



## Ferrari

Thanks MrMajestic2 and TimJo.
 That makes chassis layout much easier.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Russ White* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys, this was the very first batch of these PCBs. This is the batch we used for prototypes. There is no way we could get huge quantities of an untested board. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The next batch will be much larger and not long in coming. We are talking weeks not months. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now that we know the PCB/Circuit is fine we can order as many as we like.

 Cheers!
 Russ_

 

OK, well sounds like the timing for the next round might be perfect for me then. I have a large cheque with my name on it arriving mid/late may. i'm gonna go to town on this and get the enclosure laser cut (custom) seeing as its gonna replace my fireface (dont need all the inputs anymore) 

 so i'll get this straight. 
 1 x buffalo 32 will do balanced ...check
 things needed to make it work
 case
 2-3 PSU (will 2 x LLP do the trick??) I have 2 of them already
 input/output jacks
 and of coursr cables, but i'm covered there

 but I would like to tweak the output stage with uber caps etc. will I have to desolder parts already on the board?? am I better off waiting for the tweakers bvoard?? when will this be available and will I be stick in the same position with them as there will be just as many paople waiting for the first round of them??


----------



## Alcaudon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrMajestic2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No need to switch._

 

Ok.

 Thanks again!!!!


----------



## MrMajestic2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ferrari* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks MrMajestic2 and TimJo.
 That makes chassis layout much easier. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I take it you managed to snag a Buffalo32? Cant wait to see it.


----------



## Ferrari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrMajestic2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I take it you managed to snag a Buffalo32? Cant wait to see it._

 

Hehee… yes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I would love to see yours too.


----------



## manaox2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ferrari* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hehee… yes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I would love to see yours too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Why don't you two get a room! (I'm so jealous)


----------



## wackyterbacky

Hi FallenAngel:

 I too snagged a Buffalo 32S on Sat morning. Someone had posted a suggestion to go through a trial purchase on twistedpear just to see the sequence of web pages and entry. I think this helped.

 I am using the Juli@ I2S output and you and I have corresponded on this. However, it seems you are using the XFi Xtreme Music. 

 Do you use I2S or spdif?

 Why did you change?

 Just curious.


----------



## FallenAngel

I've bought a couple of other things from TPA before, so I know the process. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I use a modded X-Fi now because I play some games (want the 3D-CMSS) so that implies X-Fi with coax S/PDIF. Previously go switch between I2S and S/PDIF required a restart on the original Buffalo DAC so unless I went with an extra S/PDIF receiver (which I didn't want to bother with), I was stuck with either type of source.

 With the Buffalo32, I will likely include both inputs - I2S over RJ45 for ESI Juli@ output and BNC for coax S/PDIF.


----------



## Ferrari

Just like some of you guys are waiting for the Buffalo32 DAC to be shipped, I have started to work on my Buffalo32 DAC this afternoon, eehhe… the power supply part of it.

 Wish that my Buffalo32 DAC board was here to complete this, I really can’t wait!


----------



## digger945

^I really can't wait to get your listening impressions


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ferrari* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just like some of you guys are waiting for the Buffalo32 DAC to be shipped, I have started to work on my Buffalo32 DAC this afternoon, eehhe… the power supply part of it.

 Wish that my Buffalo32 DAC board was here to complete this, I really can’t wait! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ferrari, please keep the pics coming. The built so far looks amazing.


----------



## Voodoochile

Beautiful work, man!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ferrari* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just like some of you guys are waiting for the Buffalo32 DAC to be shipped, I have started to work on my Buffalo32 DAC this afternoon, eehhe… the power supply part of it.

 Wish that my Buffalo32 DAC board was here to complete this, I really can’t wait! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## Nebby

I know everyone is excited about the Buffalo32, but I just wanted to say that I got my counterpoints hooked up to my Buffalo and it sounds very very good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now to fix my very quiet buzz problem and do the vref mod...


----------



## compuryan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nebby* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know everyone is excited about the Buffalo32, but I just wanted to say that I got my counterpoints hooked up to my Buffalo and it sounds very very good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now to fix my very quiet buzz problem and do the vref mod..._

 

I'm beginning to wonder if a counterpoint paired with the yet-to-be-released "tweaker version" of the buffalo32s will be superior to the buffalo32s with onboard ivy2. It makes me want to hold out for that tweaker version.


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *compuryan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm beginning to wonder if a counterpoint paired with the yet-to-be-released "tweaker version" of the buffalo32s will be superior to the buffalo32s with onboard ivy2. It makes me want to hold out for that tweaker version._

 

Considering the stress that Russ is placing on routing of the current outputs, I think it will be very much swings and roundabouts.

 Sure, other output stages might measure better on their own, or have more audiophile cred because they are fully discrete...... but there will be trade-offs in not having it all in one completely integrated design.


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


 Sure, other output stages might measure better on their own 
 

FWIW: The IVYII measures better than the Counterpoint


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_FWIW: The IVYII measures better than the Counterpoint_

 

There you go then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Still keen to see a schematic, and try and work out what is different from the original IVY


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


 FWIW: The IVYII measures better than the Counterpoint 
 

But, [Measures better] != [sounds better]. Which sounds better is up to the individual listener.


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But, [Measures better] != [sounds better]. Which sounds better is up to the individual listener._

 

Pffffft! You're far too dimplomatic......


----------



## TheShaman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But, [Measures better] != [sounds better]. Which sounds better is up to the individual listener._

 

And your personal preference?


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


 And your personal preference? 
 

Cheeseburgers with bacon.


----------



## TheShaman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cheeseburgers with bacon._

 

ETA on pre-orders?


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheShaman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ETA on pre-orders? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

On track for May 11th as planned.

 I don't like to give out subjective appraisals of our gear, as they are essentially meaningless (unless you borrow my ears). Suffice to say, if we didn't think it was good, we would not release it.


----------



## TheShaman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't like to give out subjective appraisals of our gear, as they are essentially meaningless (unless you borrow my ears). Suffice to say, if we didn't think it was good, we would not release it._

 

And thus we have to buy everything and compare it to form our own opinion! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Counterpoint sounds great. It needs some troubleshooting at first (easy to make a mistake, picks up ambient noise, takes some time to get the power supply right) but once you get it going it's incredible. You think that Buffalo can't sound any better and then you plug the Counterpoint in and... well, there is no going back to IVY !

 I guess IVY II will be easier to get going and more trouble-free.. 
 I must say I'm not eager to leave my fully discrete Counterpoint but then there is the tighter AVCC, better chip, better clock, better regs etc on the 32S that are more than tempting. 
 Wish you guys had planned a 32SD (D=discrete) or something that would incorporate the Counterpoints. But that'd be a King Size board by TPs standards!


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


 And thus we have to buy everything and compare it to form our own opinion! 
 

There are plenty on opinions out there. I think they are better (more useful) coming from folks who are a little less biased.


----------



## TheShaman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There are plenty on opinions out there. I think they are better (more useful) coming from folks who are a little less biased.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Not when a product is in the pre-order phase like the 32S... 
 The only people who could have possibly compared Buffalo + Counterpoints (or, dare I say, Buffalo32 Tweaker's Board + Counterpoints) to the 32S are you, Russ and, perhaps, a couple more people who you trust your new products with (for measurements, listening impressions etc).

 And you know that a TP addict can't keep his finger off the Add To Cart button for too long. 
 There is no room for logical thinking, aka _"let some people get it first, compare it to older versions and then decide"_. 
 You *must* have that new board!

 Thing is, there must come a time when I find the strength (may the Force be with me and all that...) to just close the lid of my Buffalo's shiny enclosure, consider it completed and get on with the rest of my DIY projects - at least until there is really good reason to open it up (ie a 24/192 USB receiver)... 
 But of course that lid will close until I get my hands on a 32S or a Tweaker's Board! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Hard part is to decide which of the two it'll be.


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheShaman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not when a product is in the pre-order phase like the 32S... 
 The only people who could have possibly compared Buffalo + Counterpoints (or, dare I say, Buffalo32 Tweaker's Board + Counterpoints) to the 32S are you, Russ and, perhaps, a couple more people who you trust your new products with (for measurements, listening impressions etc).

 And you know that a TP addict can't keep his finger off the Add To Cart button for too long. 
 There is no room for logical thinking, aka "let some people get it first, compare it to older versions and then decide". 
 You *must* have that new board!

 Thing is, there must come a time when I find the strength (may the Force be with me and all that...) to just close the lid of my Buffalo's shiny enclosure, consider it completed and get on with the rest of my DIY projects - at least until there is really good reason to open it up (ie a 24/192 USB receiver)... 
 But of course the lid will close after I get my hands on a 32S. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Point taken...

 The IVYII sounds and measures better than the original IVY, but that said, I like the original IVY as well, in fact I listen to it every day driving my HD650s while I write code. I don't currently have a CP setup for listening, but really enjoyed it when I did. I also don't have a Buffalo32s setup at the moment. I don't have a direct comparative opinion. 

 I should mention that I recently sold my house so am packing everything up and don't have much personal listening time at the moment.


----------



## TheShaman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I should mention that I recently sold my house so am packing everything up and don't have much personal listening time at the moment._

 

You have a job, a family, you're on the move between houses *and* you handle TP orders/kits/etc...
 I'll bring that in mind when I think I had a busy day!


----------



## ttnl

can someone please tell me if the 8 channels in the ESS Sabre DAC chip are equivalent to 8 DAC chips (for example 8 PCM1704)? Thanks.


----------



## S J

It looks like the Buffalo32 requires only 1 rail from the LCDPS (VD); is it possible to power both the 4:1 S/PDIF MUX and the TPA Toslink module via the LCDPS's second rail? Thanks!


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *S J* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It looks like the Buffalo32 requires only 1 rail from the LCDPS (VD); is it possible to power both the 4:1 S/PDIF MUX and the TPA Toslink module via the LCDPS's second rail? Thanks!_

 

Yup.


----------



## S J

Great, thanks Brian


----------



## johnwmclean

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f43/fs...source-412918/

 any help apprieciated


----------



## digger945

Wonder if the seller has any pictures of his own.
 The picture in the FS thread is also found here.


----------



## ttnl

If I want both SPDIF Coaxial and Toslink inputs, do I need to add the 4:1 Mux receiver? Thanks.


----------



## FallenAngel

Or a switch


----------



## Beefy

I use an OTTO. But it will be replaced by a MUX one day...... sometimes on switching, it just doesn't get a lock.


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I use an OTTO. But it will be replaced by a MUX one day...... sometimes on switching, it just doesn't get a lock._

 

You can try adding 75R resistors from + to GND for both inputs.


----------



## qusp

stil no updates on a tweakers build Brian??


----------



## thomaspf

Sounds great so far. Here a couple of pictures

https://cid-9798175bc4b358d7.skydriv...c/P5164768.jpg

 there is still room for a hires USB board and the AC1.

 Cheers

 Thomas


----------



## solarstabi

Got mine yesterday (Saturday morning in Melbourne, Australia).
 Working by evening.
 Toslink uses 2nd power rail.
 Rails set to +15.000, -15.000, +6.000 (Digital), +6.000 (Toslink).
 Brilliant, so far. Wife comments: "Warm & detailed at the same time. Stunning."
 Brian, is there a particularly optimal value for Digital voltage? Or is 6.0v good enough?


----------



## mourip

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thomaspf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sounds great so far. Here a couple of pictures

https://cid-9798175bc4b358d7.skydriv...c/P5164768.jpg

 there is still room for a hires USB board and the AC1.

 Cheers

 Thomas_

 

How would you compare the two? Are there improvements?

 Congratulations!


----------



## thomaspf

I want to be careful with comparisons since I send 48V phantom power through my Buffalo/IVY combination. While the friendly folks at Twisted Pair helped me out with refitting the IVY for free something was giving me pretty high distortion levels after this unlucky accident.

 Subjectively I would say it sounds a littler brighter but with even more clarity if that is at all possible.

 I have been switching forth and back betwen my Lavry DA10 and the Buffalo32 and I have to say I like the Buffalo better. That is of course completely subjective. I hope I will get some measurements done next week to also get a comparison on that front.

 Cheers

 Thomas


----------



## TheShaman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *solarstabi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Brian, is there a particularly optimal value for Digital voltage? Or is 6.0v good enough?_

 

5V is the recommended value for VD on the 32S. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I recall reading a post by Russ about it at the TP support forum.


----------



## Joannha98

There's so much to learn here. Thanks.


----------



## nattonrice

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_stil no updates on a tweakers build Brian??_

 

This is what I'm really hanging out for too~
 I want to use the counterpoint discrete stage but... I think I heard this needs to be redesigned/modified for the new Buff32s. Is that true?


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


 I think I heard this needs to be redesigned/modified for the new Buff32s. Is that true? 
 

The design is being updated, but not specifically for the ES9018, more of a general improvement.

 More Buffalos for pre-order this weekend, btw.


----------



## Nebby

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The design is being updated, but not specifically for the ES9018, more of a general improvement.

 More Buffalos for pre-order this weekend, btw._

 

Holy smokes you built those up quick! Hope you get some downtime for compensation for your missed "vacation"


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nebby* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Holy smokes you built those up quick! Hope you get some downtime for compensation for your missed "vacation" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well, they aren't built yet, but all the pieces are ready. That's why they won't ship until end of June/beginning of July. the real kicker is all the power supply kits and such that need to be built as well.

 Vacation was just going to be packing up the house for moving, which I still have to do. Busy busy busy.


----------



## nattonrice

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The design is being updated, but not specifically for the ES9018, more of a general improvement.

 More Buffalos for pre-order this weekend, btw._

 

oh that sounds good! ^^
 I guess I'll just keep hang out for both of them to be avaliable~
 When it's perfection you seek, patience is a virtue


----------



## solarstabi

Works a treat.
 Pics on: Photos


----------



## Nebby

Built the vref mod board for the gen1 Buffalo, is 3.46V unloaded a good output for it?


----------



## Pyriel0

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nebby* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Built the vref mod board for the gen1 Buffalo, is 3.46V unloaded a good output for it?_

 

On the data sheet for the chip is says 3.3V +/- 5% which comes out to be 3.465 on the high end so according to the specs it should be ok. 

http://www.eflatjump.se/ES9008.pdf Its on page 14 under recommended operating conditions.

 Btw mind sending me a pm and letting me know how much it improves the sound after you have it all hooked up?


----------



## Nebby

I was trying to find the spec sheet for it, but had no luck. Thanks for the link! I'll hook it up and see how much it drops under load, along with having a quick listen with it


----------



## BrianDonegan

Buffalo32S Manual V1.0 posted:

http://www.twistedpearaudio.com/docs...32s_manual.pdf


----------



## digger945

Have there been a lot of people express interest in purchasing the pcb only Brian?
 It would be a hoot to build this DAC.


----------



## naamanf




----------



## mourip

Sweet Naamanf. Very nice!


----------



## Russ White

Nice!!! Very very cool.


----------



## Lil' Knight

It's smoking hot!!!


----------



## mourip

Buffalo Questions...

 I bought a partially completed Opus kit on Head-fi recently which had a lot of boards and a nice Parmetal case. My idea is to use what I can for now and then upgrade to a Buffalo once I can bag a board. Currently have 2 Opus boards, a Ballsie, both power supplies, two 15v trannies, Metronome, SDPIF, USB, optical, and Otto. 

 If I move to the Buffalo would I just need the USB and/or optical boards plus the power boards? Is the any need for the SPDIF, Metronome, or Ballsie? Seems like the Buffalo32 covers SPDIF, clocking, and output buffering...

 Yes, I did read through the various forums but did not come away with a clear view yet 

 Any input greatly appreciated.

 Paul


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *digger945* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It would be a hoot to build this DAC._

 







 Soldering the ESS Chip!


----------



## Lil' Knight

This DAC really makes me drool.
 Anyone has spare time this summer and want to build something for fun?


----------



## El_Doug

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This DAC really makes me drool.
 Anyone has spare time this summer and want to build something for fun? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes! Which is why I'll hopefully be building one for myself


----------



## prinz

i wonder how about comparison between Buffalo and WM8742 DAC.. Ł. Fikus called them equal..


----------



## digger945

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnwmclean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 Soldering the ESS Chip! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You betcha! The Wolfson in the Gamma 1 was probably some of the easiest soldering I have done yet, and I would think the Sabre would be even easier yet.


----------



## Russ White

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *prinz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i wonder how about comparison between Buffalo and WM8742 DAC.. Ł. Fikus called them equal.._

 

The WM8742 is the budget version of the WM8741. The performance is not bad, but certainly not near as good as its big brother the WM8741. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A quick side by side review of the data sheets will tell you all you need to know, as would a call to Wolfson.

 That said, the WM8741 is an excellent DAC IMHO. But I would not bother with the WM8742, the slight price decrease for chip is not worth compromising performance.

 Cheers!
 Russ


----------



## emelius

sorry if this has been asked/answered already...i've been on surfing safari and am becoming curious as to just how far i could throw my iPhone..

 how would one go about getting the new buffalo to accept the dsd feed (that isn't ever pcm encoded) from the new oppo blu-ray player?...

 i know it was waaay too complicated with the previous versions of both products, but i know also that oppo has reworked their outputs...

 is it still just as difficult?...

 cheers...


----------



## BrianDonegan

The ONLY way to get DSD direct out of any player is by tapping the DSD lines inside the player. HDMI is encrypted with the specific intention of keeping people from getting at the uncompressed audio and video data streams. The only way to get data out of the HDMI stream is to hack it or get a chip out of a player with a decoder and hack it. It sucks, but that's the only way.


----------



## emelius

so it _is_ just as difficult as before
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...

 well the player outputs dsd, the dac has dsd input...is there a solution forthcoming?...

 or is there a better way to input dsd into the dac via some other source?...


----------



## linuxworks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The ONLY way to get DSD direct out of any player is by tapping the DSD lines inside the player. HDMI is encrypted with the specific intention of keeping people from getting at the uncompressed audio and video data streams. The only way to get data out of the HDMI stream is to hack it or get a chip out of a player with a decoder and hack it. It sucks, but that's the only way._

 

check out geffen 'boxes'. they make dvi/audio/hdmi/etc converter boxes.

 they can mux and demix the audio and video out of hdmi. not cheap but they have the right chips inside, it seems.


----------



## El_Doug

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *emelius* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so it is just as difficult as before
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...

 well the player outputs dsd, the dac has dsd input...is there a solution forthcoming?...

 or is there a better way to input dsd into the dac via some other source?..._

 

this article just came out on Audioholics, it's an item you may want to research further:  Atlona Tech AT-HD570 HDMI (1.3) Audio De-Embedder


----------



## emelius

thanks to both yas...

 i had already heard of gefen & was gonna check their site later tonight...***checked the site...their hdmi to toslink leaves the hdmi encoded...also, that other product does pcm (the oppo doesn't ever convert to pcm, it leaves it dsd)...thanks anyways, though...

 there are a number of places modding the oppo already...perhaps one of those places will have a workaround...

 i could let my TacT's ADC have a go
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...

 it's a shame as the oppo does have this source direct mode:
  Quote:


 Source Direct Mode - For users who wish to use an external video processor, high-end audio/video receiver or display, the BDP-83 offers a "Source Direct" mode. The original audio/video content on the discs is sent out with no additional processing or alteration. 
 

anyways...maybe i'll sell it & get something with digital inputs...

 let's see how tomorrow's dac sale goes
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *emelius* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so it is just as difficult as before
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...

 well the player outputs dsd, the dac has dsd input...is there a solution forthcoming?...

 or is there a better way to input dsd into the dac via some other source?..._

 

That's what I am trying to say. The player does not output DSD. It outputs an encrypted DSD stream only. It is encrypted according to the HDMI specification so that it cannot be used to copy high-res music. It is not a shortcoming of the DAC, and there is nothing we can do (legally) about it.

 In order to decrypt HDMI, you need to obtain a license to do so and have your design approved. Part of the approval process (other than a huge fee) is that you do not expose the DSD streams where they would be copied. That is why no player will directly output DSD.


----------



## digger945

I don't see how you do it Brian. Moving, and all that comes with it, and still doing the Buffalo sales(and now it seems like all the other products are no longer "Out of Stock").
 You are no doubt one busy bee.


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *digger945* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't see how you do it Brian. Moving, and all that comes with it, and still doing the Buffalo sales(and now it seems like all the other products are no longer "Out of Stock").
 You are no doubt one busy bee.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

It's easy really... if you don't sleep, there's like 7 or 8 more hours per day.


----------



## linuxworks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In order to decrypt HDMI, you need to obtain a license to do so and have your design approved. Part of the approval process (other than a huge fee) is that you do not expose the DSD streams where they would be copied. That is why no player will directly output DSD._

 

OT, but this is why there is WAR between the music industry and its customers.

 'you don't have a right to get literal bits' is what the industry tells us.

 for that reason, I boycott BD discs, players, and anything that touches that technology. and my audio will never be hdmi based - I will only use spdif since its 'open' and not a closed standard like hdmi.

 I see so many people RUNNING to the new 'hd codecs' but they don't realize they are selling their freedom. they give up a perfectly good transport for audio (spdif) and sell their souls to the 'bad industry' so that they can now get locked into their DRM-rich media types ;(

 what a shame. I hope the overseas hackers figure out some loophole in hdmi encryption. but until then, I'm staying entirely away from all 'locked up' protocols. spdif works just fine for me - and it works everywhere with no threat of 'go to prison if you decrypt' baggage. sheesh.


----------



## manaox2

What is the real point of breaking the encryption when you can solder onto the testpoints a good number of cheap SACD transports to capture DSD before its encrypted and send it out through i2s?


----------



## BrianDonegan

Well, HDMI is supposed to be a good transport medium for hi-bandwidth.

 I have to wonder why the record companies are so keen on issuing vinyl again... back to the good old days of no digital copying if you ask me. Last gasp... jumping the shark. 

 (Though at the same time, I love the whole ritual of vinyl, as it brings back lots of memories.)

 Sorry for the OT.


----------



## linuxworks

when I first heard about hdmi combining audio and video, I though - ok - fair enough.

 then I realized, much later on, that they MIX the 2 streams. with evil intent.

 and pulling them apart is no cheap matter, either.

 as is often said online:

 ITS A TRAP!






 now, there is enough pins in hdmi to let them be ships in the night but they decided that 'wrapping and covering' was better. sheesh.

 designed for consumer lock-out. "your bits must follow OUR paths."

 I'm actually quite ok with staying at the cleartext spdif transport but it does annoy me that the industry acts in such a petty way. they create the arms race and they wonder why people pull down torrents...


----------



## El_Doug

did the second run literally run out in 20 seconds!?!?


 im hoping the "add to cart" button simply didnt activate itself... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 edit: button activated 4 minutes late  GOT ONE!!!


----------



## BrianDonegan

No, database issues. working on it


----------



## Lil' Knight

I thought it run out of stock just in 20 seconds.


----------



## oneplustwo

Argh! F5 button getting worn out!

 Edit: Got in!


----------



## johnwmclean

Buttons didn’t refresh after the timer stopped.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Works now.


----------



## mourip

Bingo. Thanks!


----------



## El_Doug

i was in such a hurry, i accidentally left paypal on the automatic "withdraw money from account," instead of switching it to credit card as primary

 now im going to dip below $100 on my checking account, and the bank will yell at me... totally worth it


----------



## Lil' Knight

LOL.

 It's so fun.


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *El_Doug* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i was in such a hurry, i accidentally left paypal on the automatic "withdraw money from account," instead of switching it to credit card as primary

 now im going to dip below $100 on my checking account, and the bank will yell at me... totally worth it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

They do seem to be going slower this time, if you want me to refund and change it.


----------



## El_Doug

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They do seem to be going slower this time, if you want me to refund and change it._

 

that would be TERRIFIC!

 ill order a second one and do it properly, I trust youll remove the first one. again, i really appreciate it

 edit: reordered


----------



## oneplustwo

Brian - you have a PM regarding a double boneheaded move. I did the same thing El_Doug did plus used the wrong shipping address. Grr... I'll blame the adrenaline and fatigue from pushing the F5 button so much!


----------



## Lil' Knight

I just wonder if anyone here tried the M-audio Transit with the Buffalo?
 Can I get 24/192 when using this way?


----------



## El_Doug

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just wonder if anyone here tried the M-audio Transit with the Buffalo?
 Can I get 24/192 when using this way?_

 

I dont see why not - the buffalo will accept 24/192, and the Transit can output 24/192. so long as your SPDIF receiver can handle that resolution, you should be good to go!


----------



## luvdunhill

Brian:

 What's that tool in the top right of the Buffalo picture? Something to handle the surface mount chips with?


----------



## BrianDonegan

Vacuum pen. Great for placing chips and even SMD EL caps. You can get fancy ones with a vacuum pump and pedal control. I just use the $5 squeeze the handle version.


----------



## digger945

I suppose that it would be possible to bypass the onboard IVY II analog stages if a feller wanted to try something different down the road, yes?

 Is there one single bad review of the Sabre32 anywhere to be found on the net? A bad word maybe?
 Every reviewer thus far is getting all emotional and teary eyed or slobbering on themselves, claiming a lack of vocabulary to accurately describe the sound.


----------



## johnwmclean

Got Mine! Still available 4 hrs later. I could have saved myself alot of anxiety.


----------



## akcrusier

I got mine too, and my wallet is significantly lighter now. I sent the FPE work in 2 days ago in anticipation. I am curious to see how it compares to my single Opus. One DAC will go in my home stero system the other one will come with me when I head off to college in the fall for my headphone system. Can't wait to try it out.


----------



## manaox2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *El_Doug* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I dont see why not - the buffalo will accept 24/192, and the Transit can output 24/192. so long as your SPDIF receiver can handle that resolution, you should be good to go!_

 

Um, Transit cannot output 24/192. Its 24/96 max.


----------



## El_Doug

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *manaox2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Um, Transit cannot output 24/192. Its 24/96 max._

 

oh, i just made the assumption since he asked... if it cant output 24/192, the question seems moot from the beginning


----------



## johnwmclean

Simple question,

 I want to use TOSLINK optical from my mac. If the Buffalo32s DAC module accepts direct S/PDIF, do I need a S/PDIF Receiver?

 Kind of answered it myself, just want to be 100%.


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


 Still available 4 hrs later. I could have saved myself alot of anxiety. 
 

We have a LOT more this time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 I want to use TOSLINK optical from my mac. If the Buffalo32s DAC module accepts direct S/PDIF, do I need a S/PDIF Receiver? 
 

No, but you do need a Toslink receiver to convert the optical to electrical S/PDIF. And, since the Toslink will output TTL level S/PDIF, you can bypass the Buffalo's level shifter and go directly to D1 (s/pdif switch off).


----------



## oneplustwo

Brian - What's the recommended wiring using your toslink and usb receivers in conjunction with the S/PDIF 4:1 MUX feeding a Buffalo 32? My guess is the following

 Toslink - Out/G to +/-
 USB - MD/Gnd to +/- (This is the one I'm least sure about.)
 MUX to the Buffalo:
 G-> GND
 BCK->DCK
 LRCK-> D1
 DOUT->D2

 This assumes that PCM is still the preferred way to go?

 Also, I know the USB board is bus powered, but can I power both the Toslink and the MUX board with the LCDPS that will also feed the Buffalo? I've read that feeding the MUX board alone with the buffalo is this way is fine, and don't expect there to be an issue adding the Toslink, but just want to be sure. 

 Thanks for the help! There will probably be more questions along the way.


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oneplustwo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Brian - What's the recommended wiring using your toslink and usb receivers in conjunction with the S/PDIF 4:1 MUX feeding a Buffalo 32? I'm a bit confused, but my guess is the following for the MUX to the Buffalo at least:

 G-> GND
 BCK->DCK
 LRCK-> D1
 DOUT->D2


 This assumes that PCM is still the preferred way to go?_

 

You can actually go PCM or S/PDIF with good results. If your layout allows for a short run with not a lot of other wires in the way, PCM. If your layout makes the distance a little greater or passes a lot of other wires, go S/PDIF. 

  Quote:


 Also, I know the USB board is bus powered, but can I power both the Toslink and the MUX board with the LCDPS that will also feed the Buffalo? I've read that feeding the MUX board alone with the buffalo is this way is fine, and don't expect there to be an issue adding the Toslink, but just want to be sure. 
 

Yes, that is fine. Neither draws much current.


----------



## oneplustwo

Great, thanks. How about the Toslink and USB connections? (Sorry, think you caught me mid-edit.)


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, but you do need a Toslink receiver to convert the optical to electrical S/PDIF. And, since the Toslink will output TTL level S/PDIF, you can bypass the Buffalo's level shifter and go directly to D1 (s/pdif switch off)._

 

Thanks Brian, for your quick response.

 I have a few more questions, I want the dac to have Coaxial, Toslink and USB.

 Is there anything else I need from Twisted Pair apart from the following?

 Buffalo32s DAC + Dual-Mono Power Supply Combination
 TOSLINK Module
 USB Receiver/DAC
 OTTO 2:1 Switch
 15V+15V (15VA) Power Transformer
 9V+9V (15VA) Power Transformer

 My confusion is with the OTTO, as it can only take two inputs and I need three (Coaxial, Toslink and USB). Also if you think there’s a better alternative...


----------



## oneplustwo

^ sounds like you need the 4:1 Mux. I'm doing something similar as I have usb and toslink... waiting to hear back on how they should be wired.


----------



## El_Doug

I myself am using the 4:1 MUX, as I want a fouth connection for AES (should I ever stumble upon a really nice transport)


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oneplustwo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ sounds like you need the 4:1 Mux. I'm doing something similar as I have usb and toslink... waiting to hear back on how they should be wired._

 

I might have to drop the USB and just go Coaxial and Toslink. The added expense of the 4:1 Mux is getting to high


----------



## Lil' Knight

Anyone has the images of TPA and Buffalo logos? 
 I'm trying to find those to add to my front panel.


----------



## naamanf

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone has the images of TPA and Buffalo logos? 
 I'm trying to find those to add to my front panel._

 

If have Corel draw it's pretty easy to make them. Just take the .jpg and have it auto-trace to a contour then export it to plotter file. You will have to mess with the line sizes a bit but it shouldn't be that hard.


----------



## jantze

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone has the images of TPA and Buffalo logos? 
 I'm trying to find those to add to my front panel._

 

Would you like to have those in Front Panel Designer format? Send me a PM.

 EDIT: added teaser image


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *naamanf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If have Corel draw it's pretty easy to make them. Just take the .jpg and have it auto-trace to a contour then export it to plotter file. You will have to mess with the line sizes a bit but it shouldn't be that hard._

 

I only have Photoshop here. Maybe I'll ask my friend to do that on Corel.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jantze* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would you like to have those in Front Panel Designer format? Send me a PM.

 EDIT: added teaser image 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That'd a really sweet setup. PM sending right now.

 Mine is attached. First time doing this stuff 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Looks really bad.

 BTW, I wonder what kind of screw for the Par 12x12x3 in the front panel? The ones on mine are just temporary.


----------



## jantze

Hi,
 it seems that I can attach these files here, so here you go.

 Remember to thank MrMajestic2 for these logos, since he is the one who created these for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 EDIT: this is my "first" design. Ideas developed during the 6 months perioid and the help of MrMajestic2. He is the man.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Sweet. Thank you and Mattias a lot.


----------



## julius_the_cat

Apologies in advance for what will likely be a series of dumb noob questions as I have purchased two Buffalo32s for projects. 

 Can the I2C header with volumite controllers be used for separate right and left channel volume controls?

 Any of you folks using only the USB receiver input?


----------



## Russ White

The DAC module itself supports left/right balance, as you send the volume level independently to each channel via I2C.

 The volumite only has a single pot, so it adjusts both left and right at the same time.

 The AC1 application/firmware I am using supports L/R balance as well as mute and source selection via the MUX module.

 I use the USB module into the MUX.

 Cheers!
 Russ


----------



## kklee

It took me 6 months to get around to finishing this. It sounds great. I just need to figure out why the Toslink module isn't working and why the DAC doesn't seem to sync up properly with my DVD player (the lock LED comes on and play music, but I get crackling until I toggle the OTTO which seems to cure it).

 Buffalo DAC, IVY, and OTTO in a 1U rack case from a local electronics shop. The power supply heat sinks barely fit, about 1 mm clearance.


----------



## emelius

haha...went to send a pm to a builder, went to buy and now the 2nd wave is gone...that's my luck lately...

 is the next round of boards expected soon?...thanks...


----------



## El_Doug

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kklee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_why the DAC doesn't seem to sync up properly with my DVD player (the lock LED comes on and play music, but I get crackling until I toggle the OTTO which seems to cure it).

 ...

 Buffalo DAC, IVY, and OTTO in a 1U rack case from a local electronics shop. The power supply heat sinks barely fit, about 1 mm clearance._

 

perhaps, and this is just a guess, these two are related? 

 if the mosfets are shorted to the case via the extremely close contact with the heatsinks (mosfet heatsink holes are connected to their drain), could this be causing a problem?


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *emelius* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_haha...went to send a pm to a builder, went to buy and now the 2nd wave is gone...that's my luck lately...

 is the next round of boards expected soon?...thanks..._

 

Next week there will be a bunch more pre-orders available. The ship date will be about two weeks further in the future than the second batch, just to keep up the pretense of sanity around my house 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## julius_the_cat

I want two knobs, one for the right channel and one for the left. Is purchasing a MUX module the only way to that?



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Russ White* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The DAC module itself supports left/right balance, as you send the volume level independently to each channel via I2C.

 The volumite only has a single pot, so it adjusts both left and right at the same time.

 The AC1 application/firmware I am using supports L/R balance as well as mute and source selection via the MUX module.

 I use the USB module into the MUX.

 Cheers!
 Russ_


----------



## emelius

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Next week there will be a bunch more pre-orders available. The ship date will be about two weeks further in the future than the second batch, just to keep up the pretense of sanity around my house 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




._

 

cheers...i keep almost buying, but i've lost two builders (still looking if anyone's reading this & interested), bought a transport that isn't gonna work, had some unexpected bills, bought a limited edition amp, bought limited edition 'phones and still need to purchase a hammock stand (don't ask)...we'll see how it goes
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...

 appreciate the heads up...


----------



## glt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *julius_the_cat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I want two knobs, one for the right channel and one for the left. Is purchasing a MUX module the only way to that?_

 

For that you need a custom solution. (Two knobs connect to a microprocessor and the microprocessor connects to the DAC)


----------



## emelius

just popped up as back in stock...don't know how many are available...

**yoink**...


----------



## Lil' Knight

I just wonder what would be the smallest case to fit the B32? It'll have the dual-mono,usb,optical,coaxial.


----------



## rds

I could fit it in a hammond 1455


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oneplustwo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ sounds like you need the 4:1 Mux. I'm doing something similar as I have usb and toslink... waiting to hear back on how they should be wired._

 

Got the 4:1 Mux, so yes our builds will be very similar. Did you manage to find out anymore detail regarding your wiring query. I would be very interested to know any answers for this as well.

 I've just discovered I'm a DAC noob. Give me an amp any day.


----------



## julius_the_cat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *glt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For that you need a custom solution. (Two knobs connect to a microprocessor and the microprocessor connects to the DAC)_

 

Thanks, I was concerned that might be the case. Lately, I have been listening to nearfield monitors on my desktop PC. Both monitors have front gain knobs and I have found that I adjust them to lock in the stereo image frequently. Whether it's my ears, the recordings or the sensitivity of the individual monitors, I don't know.

 I do notice on my main speaker system, the image seems flat at times. I have come to believe that the ability to individually control speaker allows me to bring the image into "focus" and is something important to me.

 I think it would be great project for someone.


----------



## oneplustwo

Hey folks,

 As part of my homework while waiting for parts to arrive, I put together a spreadsheet to help me keep track of how things get wired up (Buffalo, volumite, toslink, coax, USB, 4:1 MUX, LCDPS, LCBPS, toroid, IEC, XLR). Hopefully this can be a reference for others as well. That being said, I would appreciate if folks can take a look and let me know if I made any mistakes or need to add anything for completeness or clarity:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...BAupANe6ONHltQ

 Thanks!


----------



## Ferrari

oneplustwo, for XLR it’s better to follow the industry standard:

*1= Ground, Shield* 
 2= Out+ (Hot)
 3= Out- (Cold)

 Otherwise, there is a big chance that the positive output of your DAC will be shorted to GND when connected to commercial gears.


----------



## digger945

Also some gear may not sound too good or be noisy if the ground is not connected properly from source to amp.





 Pin Function 
 1 Chassis ground (cable shield) 
 2 positive polarity terminal ("hot") 
 3 return terminal ("cold")

 Thanks for the spreadsheet oneplustwo, it will be a valued resource, especially for me.
 Thanks for taking the time to put it together and share it.

 From XLR connector - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## oneplustwo

Got it, thanks for the edit. I fixed the spreadsheet. Now that I look at it again, a couple questions came up:

 1. Does it matter how the toroids get wired to S1 and S2 for LCBPS and LCDPS? I think I have the right colors to S1 and S2 independently, but don't know if it matters which of those two wire goes to which side of S1 or S2. That's confusing... you might have to look the spreadsheet to understand what I mean.
 2. What's the standard for male/female on the XLRs? I've seen male outputs on DAC's but I've also seen male XLR's on the ends of balanced headphones. I thought I remembered reading that the DAC should have male XLRs but that headroom went counter to that and went with female?


----------



## digger945

I have not studied the LCBPS or LCDPS enough to comment, but I think it depends on the secondaries of your torroid and the input circuitry of the PS as to how its wired with a bipolar PS.
 I think your correct with respect to the XLR gender issue. You will find that _most_ here will subscribe to the notion of having female connectors in and out of the balanced amp with male terminations on the HP's. DAC's I don't know. Looks like HR uses male out on thier DAC.


----------



## El_Doug

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oneplustwo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got it, thanks for the edit. I fixed the spreadsheet. Now that I look at it again, a couple questions came up:

 1. Does it matter how the toroids get wired to S1 and S2 for LCBPS and LCDPS?
 2. What's the standard for male/female on the XLRs? I've seen male outputs on DAC's but I've also seen male XLR's on the ends of balanced headphones. I thought I remembered reading that the DAC should have male XLRs but that headroom went counter to that and went with female?_

 

typically, a DAC will have male, an amp will have female in and female out, and headphones will have male


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oneplustwo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey folks,

 As part of my homework while waiting for parts to arrive, I put together a spreadsheet to help me keep track of how things get wired up (Buffalo, volumite, toslink, coax, USB, 4:1 MUX, LCDPS, LCBPS, toroid, IEC, XLR). Hopefully this can be a reference for others as well. That being said, I would appreciate if folks can take a look and let me know if I made any mistakes or need to add anything for completeness or clarity:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...BAupANe6ONHltQ

 Thanks!_

 

oneplustwo, except for the volumite my build is the same but in a 230v version, and you and I are using the Avel Lindberg with dual primary’s this will be on enormous help for me.

 Thanks you so much for this piece of data! Wonderful stuff, keep the updates happening!


----------



## oneplustwo

Hmm... so if you wanted to listen to the DAC directly with headphones what would you do? Have an adapter cable? What do people think about those male/female cable connectors?

http://www.neutrik.com/us/en/audio/2...-C_detail.aspx


----------



## BrianDonegan

Your wiring for the transformer is incorrect. You should wire the transformer secondaries to each power supply in this order: Black, Red, Orange, Yellow. That is, S1 gets Black and Red, S2 gets Orange and Yellow.


----------



## oneplustwo

Thanks Brian. I fixed the spreadsheet. I also added the link to the datasheets to the particular toroids.


----------



## kklee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *El_Doug* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_perhaps, and this is just a guess, these two are related? 

 if the mosfets are shorted to the case via the extremely close contact with the heatsinks (mosfet heatsink holes are connected to their drain), could this be causing a problem?_

 

Nope not related. The heatsinks are isolated from the volage regulators. The problem appears to have been with how my source was configured, I played with its output settings and it's working fine now.

 The Toslink problem was just a simple wiring error (you can even see it in the pictures), I had signal and ground swapped on the module.

 I have a different problem now. It's working fine with a DVD player as the source, but when I connect it to a an external sound card (Asus Xonar U1 powered through USB) connected to an Asus Netbook (running on battery), I get this periodic (every 2 sec) noise burst. An AMB γ1 decodes the same signal (20Hz sine wave, 48KHz SPDIF via Toslink) without a problem. I've tried all of the Bufflao DAC settings, but they don't make any difference.





 I've tried bypassing the comparator and fed the Toslink module output straight to D2, but no difference.


----------



## digger945

If it's connected via USB then try disconnecting the netbook PS wallwort.


----------



## kklee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *digger945* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If it's connected via USB then try disconnecting the netbook PS wallwort._

 

The netbook was running on battery power (the external USB sound card is powered by the netbook).


----------



## oneplustwo

Folks - I'm planning a build that will have balanced XLR out, single ended RCA out, single ended headphone out, and balanced 4 pin XLR out. Should I just wire everything directly out from the buffalo header? Or do I need a switch to select all the outputs?


----------



## El_Doug

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oneplustwo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Folks - I'm planning a build that will have balanced XLR out, single ended RCA out, single ended headphone out, and balanced 4 pin XLR out. Should I just wire everything directly out from the buffalo header? Or do I need a switch to select all the outputs?_

 

So long as you only have one device connected at a time, you can simply wire both connections in parallel. However, this will not work so hot if you have two devices connected, one to each of the XLR and RCA-outs


----------



## oneplustwo

Thanks El-Doug, that's what I was thinking. Are there any elegant solutions to this? I need something kinda like the Darwin source selector in reverse... two inputs and four outputs. Would that work actually?


----------



## Nebby

darwin is a set of relays, so it would work just fine with whatever direction you choose


----------



## BrianDonegan

You can just wire them without any switching. Wire +Out and GND to the RCA jacks and SE headphone jacks. Wire the balanced connections as you normally would. Should be no problem at all.


----------



## El_Doug

but wouldnt having two non-identical loads simultaneously be a bad thing?


----------



## rds

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *El_Doug* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_but wouldnt having two non-identical loads simultaneously be a bad thing?_

 

Why would it be?


----------



## El_Doug

they always tell us not to do that with headphone amps, connecting two different loads in parallel...


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *El_Doug* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_they always tell us not to do that with headphone amps, connecting two different loads in parallel..._

 

Well, since we appear to be talking about individual use of outputs (relays), driving two high-impedance loads together (RCA and XLR) shoudl be okay, as there is very little current demand on the output stage. 

 You would never really use SE and Balanced headphones at the same time, unless you have four ears and two heads. Likewise, you probably would not use headphones and the RCA/XLR at the same time, though this would be less of an issue as only the headphones put a significan load on the output stage. 

 I agree it would not be absolutely ideal for simultaneous use, but it should be fine. An ideal solution would be to buffer the SE and Balanced outputs separately (Ballsie Lite or something). Relays would not help isolate the loads for simultaneous use.


----------



## emelius

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You would never really use SE and Balanced headphones at the same time, unless you have four ears and two heads._

 

or a “friend”...


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *emelius* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_or a “friend”..._

 

I guess I wouldn't know...


----------



## luvdunhill

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *El_Doug* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_they always tell us not to do that with headphone amps, connecting two different loads in parallel..._

 

heh, who is "they"? The "experts" around here?


----------



## BrianDonegan

The reason I say it is probably okay, is that the OPA1632/THS4131 can deliver 150mA, which is far more than the opamps usually used in headamps like the cmoy.


----------



## rds

stopped by twisted pear and impulse bought the buffalo32


----------



## johnwmclean

First step towards an enclosure, I need some sizes for the following pcb’s.

 Buffalo 32 DAC pcb
 LCBPS Bipolar Power Supply pcb
 LCDPS Dual Power Supply pcb
 S/PDIF 4.1 MUX/Receiver pcb
 USB Receiver/DAC pcb

 or it anyone know’s where I can get this info it would be grand. I can’t see these details on the TPA website.


----------



## ShinyFalcon

The four smaller modules I believe are 3.5" x 2" x ~0.5"?, and on TPA I saw somewhere on one of the modules' page that it's 3.3" x 2".


----------



## johnwmclean

Thanks ShinyFalcon that’s was lightnen fast!


----------



## glt

All boards are 3.5" x 2". Buff32 is a "double board": 3.5x4. I believe the heatsinks in the PS are 1.5" tall


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *glt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All boards are 3.5" x 2". Buff32 is a "double board": 3.5x4. I believe the heatsinks in the PS are 1.5" tall_

 

Thanks glt.

 Another favour does anyone have dimensions for the screw holes relative to the corner edges. AMB includes this info on their board layouts (see sample). No biggie I can wait till the boards arrive and measure them, would be nice info to have this info for drilling purposes.

 Buffalo 32 DAC pcb
 LCBPS Bipolar Power Supply pcb
 LCDPS Dual Power Supply pcb
 S/PDIF 4.1 MUX/Receiver pcb
 USB Receiver/DAC pcb


----------



## glt




----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *glt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_



_

 

glt, that’s really kewl, thanks for doing that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Looks to be 4mm to the centre of each hole. I’ll work on that and double check once the boards arrive!


----------



## JamesL

Quote:


 I believe the heatsinks in the PS are 1.5" tall 
 

I've seen a lot of opus/buffalo builds fit in 1u cases. I'm pretty sure the heatsinks are 1", if not less.
 You can check the parts list on tpa's site.


----------



## mourip

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JamesL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've seen a lot of opus/buffalo builds fit in 1u cases. I'm pretty sure the heatsinks are 1", if not less.
 You can check the parts list on tpa's site._

 

Just measured them at 1.125" from bottom of board to top of heat sink...


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JamesL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've seen a lot of opus/buffalo builds fit in 1u cases. I'm pretty sure the heatsinks are 1", if not less.
 You can check the parts list on tpa's site._

 

Yep, my Buffalo fit in a 1U case quite comfortably. You just have to use slightly shorter standoffs than TPA supply, and make sure you use the isolating washers on the heatsinks - just in case.


----------



## Currawong

Thanks for this info people. I was looking to ask about board sizes too, as I have a case I want to use for one later on.


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oneplustwo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm... so if you wanted to listen to the DAC directly with headphones what would you do? Have an adapter cable? What do people think about those male/female cable connectors?

Neutrik - Audio - convertCON - NC3FM-C_

 

Oneplustwo, are you running all this from 2 or 3 transformers?


----------



## MrMajestic2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oneplustwo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm... so if you wanted to listen to the DAC directly with headphones what would you do? Have an adapter cable? What do people think about those male/female cable connectors?

Neutrik - Audio - convertCON - NC3FM-C_

 

I use Neutriks Female to Female XLR adapter. Works great.

Neutrik - Audio - Circular Adapters - NA3FF


----------



## oneplustwo

I'll be running three transformers. One for each analog PSU and one for the digital PSU. It's hard for me to imagine the DAC itself being able to do what the beta would be able to do in addition, but I wanted to try it out given the feedback I've heard from Tom. I ended up getting the unisex connectors and they work pretty slick actually. A little chunky, but not too bad.


----------



## johnwmclean

^ thanks oneplustwo.

 Reading the TPA website it states that one tranformer cannot be used to power both LCBPS and LCDPS, as it will short to ground.

 Can I power two LCBPS with the one transformer, is this ok. And are there any shortcomings if I opt for this configuration.


----------



## MrMajestic2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnwmclean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ thanks oneplustwo.

 Reading the TPA website it states that one tranformer cannot be used to power both LCBPS and LCDPS, as it will short to ground.

 Can I power two LCBPS with the one transformer, is this ok. And are there any shortcomings if I opt for this configuration._

 

As long as you don't overload the transformer you should be ok.


----------



## oneplustwo

I think you can... might want to upgrade the trafo to a higher VA unit. The only shortcoming is that it's not truly dual mono at that point. Right?


----------



## Jean-Charles

Hi Brian,
 I tried to show you a picture you asked for on the support section of TP, but don't know how to do it. I tried PM mail, other suggestions, does not work I guess.
 I try here. This is a temporary set up since I have a nice case to fit everything in. Before I do, I want to make sure all is working properly.
 You can PM me or whatever you prefer. Thanks for the help.

 Jean-Charles

 Ps, if you need anything more, please ask.


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jean-Charles* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Brian,
 I tried to show you a picture you asked for on the support section of TP, but don't know how to do it. I tried PM mail, other suggestions, does not work I guess.
 I try here. This is a temporary set up since I have a nice case to fit everything in. Before I do, I want to make sure all is working properly.
 You can PM me or whatever you prefer. Thanks for the help.

 Jean-Charles

 Ps, if you need anything more, please ask._

 

You can just email the picture to us (questions@twistedpearaudio.com) and we will both see it.


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jean-Charles* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Brian,
 I tried to show you a picture you asked for on the support section of TP, but don't know how to do it. I tried PM mail, other suggestions, does not work I guess.
 I try here. This is a temporary set up since I have a nice case to fit everything in. Before I do, I want to make sure all is working properly.
 You can PM me or whatever you prefer. Thanks for the help.

 Jean-Charles

 Ps, if you need anything more, please ask._

 

You can just email the picture to us (questions@twistedpearaudio.com) and we will both see it.

 If you could send a larger version it would be helpful.


----------



## qusp

when is the next lot of buffalo32s going on sale brian?? i've been pricing up CODs with counterpoint and mux, but I could get a simple balanced buffalo for about the same money in a temporary case. only need coax really, with AES being a bonus.


----------



## rds

The answer is right on the Buffalo sales page:
 "The current round of pre-orders is sold out. We will have more pre-orders available in early July."


----------



## qusp

yes, but the site also says 'we are going on holiday and will be back on the 8th of june'


----------



## nattonrice

Yay! There's an update!
 Looking forward to the Ballsie Light


----------



## rds

Buffalos are now on sale


----------



## qusp

Brian: when do you expect to have the Darwin source selectors back in stock?? is this essential? I plan on using the buffalo almost exclusively with DSD/i2s or coax connections; coax being 99% of the time; at least until I tweak a transport to supply the others. so I can set this internally temporarily and then add joshua tree and darwin later on cant I??

 so for the moment it would be, dual mono buffalo, 2 x trannies and volumite, and a modushop enclosure with my own touches. maybe a wood inlay or whole front panel.


----------



## DoYouRight

man this is the sex! For balanced I only need one buffalo board dual mono psu right? not 2 dacs?


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_man this is the sex! For balanced I only need one buffalo board dual mono psu right? not 2 dacs?_

 

Dual psu.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Brian: when do you expect to have the Darwin source selectors back in stock?? is this essential? I plan on using the buffalo almost exclusively with DSD/i2s or coax connections; coax being 99% of the time; at least until I tweak a transport to supply the others. so I can set this internally temporarily and then add joshua tree and darwin later on cant I??

 so for the moment it would be, dual mono buffalo, 2 x trannies and volumite, and a modushop enclosure with my own touches. maybe a wood inlay or whole front panel._

 

If your getting a S/PDIF 4:1 MUX/Receiver Module it comes with its own switch.


----------



## qusp

well I was going to add the SMUX later on, can I do without the SMUX initially?? or do I need it right from the beginning. i'm confused as to whether the buffalo has the ability to receive SPDIF directly. the product page seems to suggest it can, but I havent looked at the schematic closely to see if that requires an off-board receiver. 

 just had another look; it would suggest that I could forgo the smux initially and use a direct coax SPDIF connection until I get the SMUX and therefore other inputs sorted. chances are I wont use another input anyway until I have a tweaked source. although i'm toying with the idea of using AES instead which would REQUIRE the smux to provide this input. is this correct, am I misreading that there is a direct spdif input and therefore a receiver onboard?? or is the offboard receiver such as smux or the simple spdif receiver required for clock recovery and therefore functionality??

 I do plan to add an smux either way, but would be cool to be able to just start off with the dual mono buffalo board kit pack with LCDPS, 2 x trannies and a case (with connectors etc.) and have simple direct spdif (coax) only input, no volume and direct output to an amp which provides the volume control. this is just to save on a little money initially, as I have blown plenty already this month on customs and other stuff, but I really want to get one in this round. so if it is imperative that I get the smux straight away i'll do that, but would mean it would have to be housed in a tin for a bit. its either a case or SMUX at this stage; at least for this round as I imagine it will sell out again pretty quick.

 sorry for noob questions. by the way, where is the schematic for the sabre32 dac board on the TP site?? I can only find a simple layout with no marking; only the original buffalo has the full schematic from what I can see. 

 or is that info on the TP forums??


----------



## johnwmclean

^^ The Buffalo will except direct S/PDIF and you don’t need a switch for one input. However keep in mind the OTTO 2:1 Switching Module for when you need switching capabilities later, it’s a lot cheaper than the MUX. It also might suit your build since you only want a couple of inputs.

 Although this build is centred around the older ES9008 chip, I think it demonstrates what your desiring, one of FallenAngels pieces:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f43/so...-world-410291/


----------



## qusp

^^ yeah I looked at the otto, but the buffalo board doesnt seem support AES directly and that is my preferred connection if possible. I want to keep that option open without spending money going in another direction. my fireface outputs AES on XLR and I would like that to be the end result and would still be the only input. well probably coax and AES. 

 I realize I dont need a switch for one input, just clarifying that the buffalo does indeed accept spdif directly without the need for a separate receiver. you have done that; thanks for that. well that seals it. i'm waiting till tomorrow afternoon to make sure something is in motion and then buffalo is coming home.

 by the time I finished building the COD or opus properly it would cost me the same as a simple buffalo build. a little more actually so why not hey. I know once I hear it I wont regret it.

 I saw that buffalo of fallenangel's; nice build; I wouldnt personally choose 18AWG jena for wiring the dac up, but very shmick build and I posted in there to tell him so last week. if I wasnt such a tweaker I would have considered getting it myself at the time.


----------



## DoYouRight

Yes his builds are beautiful. 

 I was doing some reading, has anyone been able to sucessfully put ethernet an input/output? I see it does a good job, just don't know how to implement it.


----------



## FallenAngel

Thanks guys 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 qusp: I would recommend NOT using AES/EBU as the XLR connector is nowhere close the the spec'd 110 Ohm rating of the standard and you would get considerably better impedance matching (meaning less jitter, though it's not as much of an issue with the Buffalo) if you use coax S/PDIF with BNC.

 DoYouRight: I use RJ45 (standard ethernet connector) for I2S input on my DAC, just wire it correctly and you're good to go. Oh, and you need a transport that outputs I2S. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you are talking about making the DAC network-enabled, that will be considerably harder, though a very interesting project that I'm sure people would be interested in.


----------



## smeggy

Bum, wish I had the cash. I had a listed to the buffalo the other day on a B22 and it was very nice.


----------



## DoYouRight

no I just want to have ethernet connection as it would be easier to get 24/192 on ubuntu than usb dongle with spdif. What module has ethernet?


----------



## FallenAngel

WOW, that's really out there. Ethernet is a network protocol, NOT in any way an audio standard. May I suggest you read the digital audio primer linked in my signature, it will explain the basic components of a digital audio system.


----------



## DoYouRight

I was reading, that it could be used to transport, and replace optical spdif. Let me find the article and link it.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...769#post999769


----------



## FallenAngel

Yeah... read that a while ago and I think you are forgetting that this requires programming custom firmware on your own chip (though some have salvaged network routers), installed a ripped up linux kernel and running a web-enabled media player daemon. Of course coding a web page that communicates with it or an output module that can upload files to it will also be required, unless you want the daemon to be smart enough to have access to your local disk and just send it action commands, though that's a little stranger, but still possible.

 As I said, this wouldn't be a simple project and would require serious R&D to build.


----------



## DoYouRight

damn oh well lol. So ill save that for later. My cousin might be able to but not without a bit of time and hes very busy. 

 Regardless, I read the Lampizator.eu article saying the new buffalo is GOD compared to so many items. So really has anyone tried his analog output stage? the lampizator tube business?


----------



## Beefy

Considering how lampizator puts together a power supply (let alone their other Frankenstein like efforts), I frankly wouldn't try anything they have to offer.


----------



## DoYouRight

ouch, though his review made me want my buffalo done so much more, saying it rocks the socks so bad compared to other DACs that cost alot more. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 DIY really is the way to go 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Glad I got over my fear of ruining things, though I still might blow a board or so when I wire my B22 but by then the Buffalo should be fine and just need to read specs to do the inputs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 This statement shows that he is a little looney,

 "Another bad point is that the Lampizator is not readily available for this DAC, so to reach Nirvana - like I did last night - one must solder a tube circuit himself. 
Honestly speaking - without tubes - dont bother. "

 I honestly don't think Tubes will make it a totally different dac and that is all his nonsense, it sounds amazing because of the chip and other TPA objects and design.


----------



## FallenAngel

That comment makes me want to bring back my last signature rule: "Tubes are NOT the answer to life, stop recommending them for everything!"


----------



## El_Doug

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_no I just want to have ethernet connection as it would be easier to get 24/192 on ubuntu than usb dongle with spdif. What module has ethernet?_

 

is the only goal of your ethernet aspirations simply to get 24/192 digital from a computer running linux? 

 if so, why not simply get a Juli@ PCI card for your Linux PC? it can output 24/192 via coax, and is fully compatible with ALSA


----------



## TheShaman

Not to mention that Lampizator now recommends the Behringer SRC2496 as the best DAC around - which I happen to own and which you can't even begin to compare to my Buffalo, even though the Behringer is already modded (not Lamp-modded, but modded still)....


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FallenAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks guys 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 qusp: I would recommend NOT using AES/EBU as the XLR connector is nowhere close the the spec'd 110 Ohm rating of the standard and you would get considerably better impedance matching (meaning less jitter, though it's not as much of an issue with the Buffalo) if you use coax S/PDIF with BNC._

 

oh well that saves me a little; although I was looking forward to utilizing the AES as I also just made myself a 9 pin breakout (AES/EBU and coax) for my RME hammerfall 9632. plan was to use that and get rid of my fireface to help offset the cost of the buffalo. oh well. I wonder if its possible to use another connector type to maintain a 110ohm connection. since I can put just about anything on the breakout. looks like its time to do some research. 

 in the meantime that means that I can get out of a buffalo32 with decent case for around 750-$800

 so i'm all set. now to start shuffling money


----------



## nattonrice

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_now to start shuffling money_

 

This is usually the most fun part of my day!
 I'm constantly amazed at how money can magically appear from just
 shuffling between accouints on netbank


----------



## DoYouRight

El_Doug, I am using a Dell XPS M1330 laptop, no pci that is the root of my problems. The Creative Expresscard I have to output coax/optical will NOT work in Linux, I tried everything! Until they release new creative drivers from OSS it wont happen. 

 So I need 24/192 over USB, 0404usb? or M-Audio Fasttrack Pro? I know the m-audio works in linux. which is best?


----------



## El_Doug

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_El_Doug, I am using a Dell XPS M1330 laptop, no pci that is the root of my problems. The Creative Expresscard I have to output coax/optical will NOT work in Linux, I tried everything! Until they release new creative drivers from OSS it wont happen. 

 So I need 24/192 over USB, 0404usb? or M-Audio Fasttrack Pro? I know the m-audio works in linux. which is best?_

 

"which is best" comes down to preference, since digitally they behave identically at the output. if the m-audio is guaranteed to work in Linux, id recommend you go for that, and save yourself the hassle.


----------



## El_Doug

It's a thing of beauty


----------



## DoYouRight

GAR! I truly wish I could get this stuff doing it up right. I realize I now have to spend ALOT more time on my chassis, for this to match my b22 and o22 and have it all stack marvelously and maybe racklike but with KRMATHIS and FALLENANGEL flare.


----------



## digger945

I _think_ I may have read somewhere that someone has developed drivers for the 0404usb to work with Linux. I have no idea where I would have read that but it most likely came from a search done to try and fix my own problems with the Vista drivers on my laptop. The Vista drivers and software never panned out for me so I have since deleted them to return to what Vista has, and now can't seem to set the sample rate to anything higher than 16/44. It would seem that the Creative drivers and software somehow alter what I had before, which was sample rates to 16/192. I was in hopes of finally being able to use the 0404 to do what only a few usb audio boxes can do, 24/192.

 At the moment I'm trying to research the possibility of using the Y1 to convert usb to spdif to supply my recently aquired Buffalo 9008 v1.2.


----------



## DoYouRight

yea I just want usb transfer of 24/192 to a dac. it is a very large PITA for those with laptops that aren't MacBook Pro's


----------



## Wilf

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *El_Doug* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's a thing of beauty 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







_

 

Have they started shipping the orders from a few weeks back, then?

 Looks like the thumpbusters have been built into the circuit as well.

 Ooh, exciting, mine should be on the way!


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Wilf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have they started shipping the orders from a few weeks back, then?

 Looks like the thumpbusters have been built into the circuit as well.

 Ooh, exciting, mine should be on the way!_

 

Hey Wilf how you going, July the 7th they ship I got a usps notice yesterday.


----------



## BrianDonegan

I started shipping Tuesday. I am going in order in which the orders came in, bit there are a lot so it's slow going. There is also the July 4th holiday here, which ruled out shipping Friday and Saturday. I hope to get the balance of the first batch out on Monday.


----------



## Wilf

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnwmclean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Wilf how you going, July the 7th they ship I got a usps notice yesterday._

 

Hi John, doing well. Just finished my SandyK/Alex SC Class A Head amp. It's superb. Mind you, I see you've been busy as well! If Alex goes to the Richmond meet, give him a hug/buy him a beer from me!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Found my shipping notice from TP in the Spam folder, so it due soon. Really looking forward to getting mine.


----------



## DoYouRight

Richmond VA?


----------



## Wilf

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Richmond VA?_

 

Richmond, Sydney, Australia.

 A bit far for either of us, methinks!

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f24/we...2009-a-420534/


----------



## nattonrice

But it was awesome!
 Would've been worth the hike


----------



## Wilf

Just had a phone call from work. A nice parcel has arrived from the US, with my Buffalo32S in it. I've got to wait *two whole days* before I can get my hands on it!


----------



## nattonrice

I just got an email! Sooooooo excited ^^

 It's gonna get here before any cases do so it'll be set up on
 silver plated, diamond embeded... plywood


----------



## DoYouRight

Are any of the other kits talked about in the DIY forums going to be up soon? Like the most recent tweak that Russ was doing to PSUs and balanced enhancements?


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nattonrice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got an email! Sooooooo excited ^^

 It's gonna get here before any cases do so it'll be set up on
 silver plated, diamond embeded... plywood 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It’s arrived!! Ha, I got mine first 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Exactly as per order! Thanks Brian


----------



## nattonrice

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnwmclean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It’s arrived!! Ha, I got mine first 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Exactly as per order! Thanks Brian 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ah! damn u! ^^

 So how goes the ply?


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are any of the other kits talked about in the DIY forums going to be up soon? Like the most recent tweak that Russ was doing to PSUs and balanced enhancements?_

 

The Ballsie-Lite shoudl be available soon. I have everything and am assembling kits, which is taking a lot longer than I had originally planned**. The kits are almost ready, and shoudl be fairly inexpensive.

 The new power supply is still being tested. We are getting new prototype boards in the next couple days.



 ** We sold out old house and are living in a temporary place until we can close/move in to our new house in the beginning of August. The temporary setup is making everything take longer than usual... just finding which box things are in can take an hour when it should take 30 seconds. Come August, I should be back in full gear.


----------



## DoYouRight

Does anyone know what the "Hi-Rez" inputs on MrMajestics build was? He had optical/coax and "Hi-Rez" which looked like an ethernet plug hole in the center of a neutrik locking jack.


----------



## nattonrice

Was it not AES?


----------



## penger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone know what the "Hi-Rez" inputs on MrMajestics build was? He had optical/coax and "Hi-Rez" which looked like an ethernet plug hole in the center of a neutrik locking jack._

 

Look it up on his FS thread?


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Ballsie-Lite shoudl be available soon. I have everything and am assembling kits, which is taking a lot longer than I had originally planned**. The kits are almost ready, and shoudl be fairly inexpensive.

 The new power supply is still being tested. We are getting new prototype boards in the next couple days._

 

Sounds good, Brian. Expect an order from me as soon as the MUX and USB receiver are both in stock at the same time!


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone know what the "Hi-Rez" inputs on MrMajestics build was? He had optical/coax and "Hi-Rez" which looked like an ethernet plug hole in the center of a neutrik locking jack._

 

It is for DSD from his modded Denon 1920.


----------



## MASantos

Brian could you post some inf on the ballsie lite? or post a link?

 thanks in advance!


----------



## MrMajestic2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone know what the "Hi-Rez" inputs on MrMajestics build was? He had optical/coax and "Hi-Rez" which looked like an ethernet plug hole in the center of a neutrik locking jack._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is for DSD from his modded Denon 1920._

 

Correct, I ran the DSD signal from my modded Denon DVD-1920 to the DAC using CAT5 cable.


----------



## DoYouRight

Wow thats sweet! Could this be done with a computer? I was searching a Cat5 cable as a connection and very little could be found


----------



## El_Doug

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone know what the "Hi-Rez" inputs on MrMajestics build was? He had optical/coax and "Hi-Rez" which looked like an ethernet plug hole in the center of a neutrik locking jack._

 

such a shame 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I bought those same Neutrik RJ-45's, to use as an I2S input, hoping I was being clever and original... i guess not


----------



## El_Doug

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow thats sweet! Could this be done with a computer? I was searching a Cat5 cable as a connection and very little could be found 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

you can easily use just about any connector you want for whatever type of data you want - however, impedance, capacitance, inductance, shielding, etc. all make certain connections better for certain protocols. 

 i have just modded a Juli@ to output I2S via cat5, for use with my B32s. 


 however, when it comes to using ETHERNET, youre going to have a lot more trouble. since that is not a music data format, you would need to have an embedded device (probably linux-based) to decode the LAN transmission, and then a chip to output the music data in the proper format. honestly, this would be REALLY cool, but would be a real pain.


----------



## DoYouRight

well I cant mod a julia as I have a laptop only. Would modding an emu 0404 be my only way, and put BNC on it?


----------



## FallenAngel

Why are you going with USB to S/PDIF to the Buffalo32 if you can simply feed it S/PDIF from a PCMCIA card?


----------



## digger945

The emu0404usb has spdif coax and optical outs. Can't those be used directly? 
 That's what I had planned to do with my own v1.2 9008.


----------



## DoYouRight

I read that optical spdif is inferior to BNC? 

 I just read the AYRE QB-9 can do usb asynchronously and 24/96. That is amazing.

 I still believe Buffalo32s and a Bel Canto USBLINK would be best? No drivers and 24/96 usb to BNC coax. Is this the best option here? Thanks

 I am really curious as to how an AYRE compares to the Buffalo though from all the hail I believe that the Buffalo stands on top. 

 How much jitter control does the Sabre 9018 fix natively? Compared to the USB module doing it.


----------



## Beefy

The answer to all of those really depends...... how much do you really want to deliberately overthink and overcomplicate things for yourself?

 If your source material is CD data, as I suspect it probably is, then I see absolutely no benefit in upsampling in software just so that you can e-penis your digital interface. Keep it simple, and stop stressing about minutiae. Unless you do something really wrong, a simple SPDIF connection from a sound card or decent USB to SPDIF converter is perfectly fine.


----------



## linuxworks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow thats sweet! Could this be done with a computer? I was searching a Cat5 cable as a connection and very little could be found 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

cat5 seems to be used as a 'bundle of twisted pairs', but NOT always as an ethernet carrying cable.

 the # of twists in cat5 and 6 make it nice for balanced mode (i2s) use.

 but don't confuse that with ethernet!


----------



## FallenAngel

BIG TIME! Sheesh, I was already tempted to put you on ignore list, you ask and re-ask the same questions so many times and if you simply read a couple of articles on digital audio (such as my primer which I can't believe you actually got through since it covers 99% of your questions), you would know the answers and not obsess about tiny details. Do a little homework yourself, use the search function. Not to discourage you from asking questions, but definitely not as a substitute to at least trying to look for the info yourself first.

 On a side note, please remove the last 2 posts from my article, it is not related and does not contribute to it.


----------



## FallenAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *linuxworks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_cat5 seems to be used as a 'bundle of twisted pairs', but NOT always as an ethernet carrying cable.

 the # of twists in cat5 and 6 make it nice for balanced mode (i2s) use.

 but don't confuse that with ethernet! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Cat3 would actually be better for I2S as Cat5 uses wires twisted at different intervals which means they are of different length. Cat3 has the wires all the same length.


----------



## linuxworks

I thought cat5 and 6 had PAIRS twisted. so if you deal with pairs, then how would any *pair* be longer than any other?

 its not all wires twisted in a mess; its sets of pairs, with ethernet. (no?)

 gig-e was the first that really needed ALL 4 pairs (8 wires) in order to work. 10/100 ethernet did not need all the pairs since its modulation scheme was 'easier'.


----------



## DoYouRight

I did read everything you gave, but no definitive definition on what is best. I have alot of FLAC vinyl rips in 24/96. I asked alot because I got different answers on what is best everywhere I went/read. I think I have it for now though, thanks for those that helped in the process.

 And it will no longer be brought up, as I tried to get answer from people who frequent various parts of the forum, thus the reiteration. But now the only place it will be spoken about is the dedicated thread I made on it.

 Back to Buffalo32s magic, no more question on anything but wiring and voltage from me here on out


----------



## FallenAngel

linuxworks - yes, the 2 wires in each pair are of same length, but the length between the 4 different pairs of wires is different. It is a requirement to prevent crosstalk and interference at high speeds.

 DoYouRight - You're right, I never wrote anywhere I2S, S/PDIF or USB is better than one another. That's because all can be better or worse than the next depending on implementation.


----------



## DoYouRight

I understand that but I was more or less looking for a push in the right direction, instead of having to put ~500 hours of research into every possible solution, along with Windows/Linux compatibility. Thanks though your help was very nice, and I decided to use APS wiring on my B22 and Buffalo based on how nice your equipment looked with JENA wire.


----------



## El_Doug

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FallenAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cat3 would actually be better for I2S as Cat5 uses wires twisted at different intervals which means they are of different length. Cat3 has the wires all the same length._

 

fascinating! i wonder, then, why a cable with differing lengths of wire would be chosen to send network protocols at faster speeds

 edit: looks like you answered that question a few posts later


----------



## linuxworks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FallenAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_linuxworks - yes, the 2 wires in each pair are of same length, but the length between the 4 different pairs of wires is different. It is a requirement to prevent crosstalk and interference at high speeds._

 

Category 5 cable - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 damn, son - HOW did you know that? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 btw, this IS a great interview question (lol). I owe you one; this is great


----------



## DoYouRight

FallenAngel is a wealth of knowledge if you need to know anything, either he is a walking encyclopedia or he has a method of searching out everything.


----------



## johnwmclean

I ordered my enclosure today based on my preliminary layout, feel free to pass comment, I’d like to get your opinions.


----------



## nattonrice

Good enclosure choice~ 
 I was supprised when I got a similar one at how well built they are.
 Layout looks nice.


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnwmclean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered my enclosure today based on my preliminary layout, feel free to pass comment, I’d like to get your opinions._

 

Is your Buffalo board 180deg from how you actually plan on mounting it?


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is your Buffalo board 180deg from how you actually plan on mounting it?_

 

Thanks Brian, that’s correct, I need to rotate the Buffalo board 180º.


----------



## FallenAngel

johnwmclean - Nice layout, really looking forward to seeing it.
 linuxworks - I actually paid attention in network communications class 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 doyouright - A little of both and thanks


----------



## DoYouRight

I dont see the design for the front panel 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but otherwise it looks awesome


----------



## johnwmclean

Delete


----------



## johnwmclean




----------



## oneplustwo

Nice! Mine is in about the same state of build. What do you think about listening through the DAC directly? I've been pretty impressed myself. Still haven't finished my balanced beta though so I haven't had a chance to compare.

 (Noticed the HD800's in the background too... niiiiice.)


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oneplustwo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice! Mine is in about the same state of build. What do you think about listening through the DAC directly? I've been pretty impressed myself. Still haven't finished my balanced beta though so I haven't had a chance to compare.

 (Noticed the HD800's in the background too... niiiiice.)_

 

oneplustwo, I’ve only listened for 15 minutes, I’m really impressed too - can’t say too much, early days - it clearly is superior to the cambridge 840c, I can’t wipe the smile off my face. 

 What do you mean through the DAC directly?


----------



## smeggy

stick a headphone jack on the dac outputs and see, as long as you have a way of contoling the volume (like a computer media player). Some dacs can work very nicely as headphone amps.


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *smeggy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_stick a headphone jack on the dac outputs and see, as long as you have a way of contoling the volume (like a computer media player). Some dacs can work very nicely as headphone amps._

 

Might try that at some stage, tis very sweet from my balanced Beta22.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Looks great, John.

 Did you compare it with your B22? I mean driving the HD800 by using the IVY stage.


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looks great, John.

 Did you compare it with your B22? I mean driving the HD800 by using the IVY stage._

 

Hey Tran, I’ve only used it with Beta22 so far. It’s simply breathtaking, I got back a lot of bass, treble isn’t so forward - super relaxed and detailed, very musical. It’s a totally different system by a long, long way. Hard hitting stuff like Drive by Truckers, unplayable on the cambridge - because it’s just too hyped and edgy - through the Sabre32 it’s a revelation - amazing stuff.


----------



## oneplustwo

Hey John,

 Did you ground the IEC to anything while it's just hanging out like that? I'm putting mine in a wooden enclosure, trying to figure out if the ground should be connected to anything.


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oneplustwo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey John,

 Did you ground the IEC to anything while it's just hanging out like that? I'm putting mine in a wooden enclosure, trying to figure out if the ground should be connected to anything._

 

I cant really ground it in this state, wood’s non conductive though should be safe till I house it properly, as long as there’s no stray fingers to get zapped.


----------



## oneplustwo

Exactly... so I guess I won't be grounding mine to anything either.


----------



## johnwmclean

I’m finding upon power up that the lock is quirky, sometimes it will sometimes won’t lock. I’m having to wait, turn off and on until there’s lock. Once lock is achieved it’s stable though. I’m using a toslink module straight into the DI of the dac. The toslink module is powered by LCDPS + and G.


----------



## oneplustwo

My toslink module goes straight into spdif/ground and I haven't had any problems. Not sure if it's a huge difference one way or the other performance wise.


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oneplustwo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My toslink module goes straight into spdif/ground and I haven't had any problems. Not sure if it's a huge difference one way or the other performance wise._

 

Can’t get a lock at with spdif, switching back to D1 locks ok, I wonder what’s going on.


----------



## Beefy

This is all going back into the memory from almost a year ago......

 For the TOSLINK module, the output is TTL so it doesn't have to go through the comparator. You should hook up to D1 and G. If you hook it up to SPDIF you have to flick the SPDIF switch on, but this is not ideal.

 Realistically though, I used to have problems getting a lock with the TOSLINK module and only a few power cycles fixes it. To this day, I'm not sure whether it is a problem with the TOSLINK or the Buffalo - I suspect the latter, combined with the fact that I run everything through an OTTO for switching. If you have your MUX already then try inputting the TOSLINK module to that and then run SPDIF or I2S to the Buffalo. I suspect it will be a big improvement in reliability.


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is all going back into the memory from almost a year ago......

 For the TOSLINK module, the output is TTL so it doesn't have to go through the comparator. You should hook up to D1 and G. If you hook it up to SPDIF you have to flick the SPDIF switch on, but this is not ideal.

 Realistically though, I used to have problems getting a lock with the TOSLINK module and only a few power cycles fixes it. To this day, I'm not sure whether it is a problem with the TOSLINK or the Buffalo - I suspect the latter, combined with the fact that I run everything through an OTTO for switching. If you have your MUX already then try inputting the TOSLINK module to that and then run SPDIF or I2S to the Buffalo. I suspect it will be a big improvement in reliability._

 

Thanks Beefy, that’s much better. I wasn’t going to add the Mux till the enclosure was finalised, but that’s working a treat now.


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnwmclean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Beefy, that’s much better. I wasn’t going to add the Mux till the enclosure was finalised, but that’s working a treat now._

 

Excellent. Gives hope to me that the MUX will fix my occasional problems as well! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I get the impressions that while it is really handy that the Sabre DACs accept SPDIF directly...... an external SPDIF receiver is definitely more robust.


----------



## DoYouRight

thanks beefy! that will save me alot of trouble next week


----------



## mourip

I am going to be setting my Buff32 up with both SPDIF and the TP USB board. If I set up the USB board to output SPDIF could I just use a simple switch to choose the source?

 Thanks!


----------



## Beefy

I use an OTTO to switch between coax (RCA) and a TPA TOSLINK module. Aside from the occasional lock problems I noted above, it works quite well.

 The MUX is certainly much more elegant though.


----------



## qusp

well I finally bit the bullet and made my order for my buffalo. havent bought an enclosure yet, because I am thinking of getting that and a dew smaller ones laser cut from the guys the John used (will have to PM you about that later john or chat at the meet in a couple weeks) here is my order

 Item CodeItem NameQuantitySubtotal
 SPDIFMUXMODCS8416 S/PDIF Receiver/MUX Module (Assembled and Tested)1$129.00
 BUF32SDMCOMBOBuffalo32s DAC + Dual-Mono Power Supply Combo1$569.00
 VFWBuffalo32sVolumite Firmware for Buffalo32s DAC (All Versions)1$5.00
 TORXKITTOSLINK Optical Input Module Kit1$18.00
 VOLKITVolumite Base Kit (no Firmware)1$25.00
 15VTRAFO15V+15V (15VA) Power Transformer1$20.00
 9VTRAFO9V+9V (15VA) Power Transformer1$20.00
 SHIPPINGExpress Mail International (EMS)(5 Days): $48.25 to Australia1$48.25

 Order Total:$834.25

 gonna be sweet. so john; is this anything like your build?? maybe we could go in on the enclosures as I expect its cheaper to get the second one as it would only be one setup.

 i'll be running AES, COAX, BNC and optical one of which I may change to i2s once I mod my RME 9632. would like to run headphones direct (bal and SE) and line level outs in BAL and SE if thats doable. if not i'll just run balanced direct and balanced and SE linelevel


----------



## FallenAngel

If you went with dual-mono, don't you need 2 15V transformers?

 When you add I2S, you'll need an OTTO as well.


----------



## El_Doug

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FallenAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you went with dual-mono, don't you need 2 15V transformers?_

 

The 15v transformer they supply has more than enough current rating to supply 2 LCBPS's


----------



## FallenAngel

Then it won't really be dual-mono.


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FallenAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Then it won't really be dual-mono. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

HEH! Separate rectifiers and regulators is surely close enough! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 *

 While I'm here, I would like to ask for opinions on the panels for my upcoming Buffalo re-case. See the attached PDF's, with a couple of different options for the front; any comments and critique would be appreciated!


----------



## stew1234

Does anyone know if it would be possible to wire up a toslink module and rca spdif into the same spdif input on the buffalo board and eliminate the need for a mux? If you were to unplug the the toslink when using the spdif and vice versa is there any reason this wouldn't work?


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *stew1234* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone know if it would be possible to wire up a toslink module and rca spdif into the same spdif input on the buffalo board and eliminate the need for a mux? If you were to unplug the the toslink when using the spdif and vice versa is there any reason this wouldn't work?_

 

Two reasons: First, the Toslink outputs TTL level, and should go direct to D1 with the SPDIF dip switch off, so it bypasses the comparator. Second, you will be feeding the S/PDIF signal no only yo the Buffalo, but also to the other S/PDIF source. This may be okay, it may not, depends on the equipment. You could use a simple toggle switch for just two sources, but it means running the spdif around your case, unless you put it on the rear panel, which you could do it you were planning on pulling a cable anyway.


----------



## El_Doug

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FallenAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Then it won't really be dual-mono. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

is that true, though? technically, even if you use dual transformers, theyd still be tied to a single IEC receptacle. does dual-mono require dual power inlets?


----------



## naamanf

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *El_Doug* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_is that true, though? technically, even if you use dual transformers, theyd still be tied to a single IEC receptacle. does dual-mono require dual power inlets? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Also requires you to use separate power grids.


----------



## BrianDonegan

You gain galvanic isolation of the channels with two transformers


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well I finally bit the bullet and made my order for my buffalo. havent bought an enclosure yet, because I am thinking of getting that and a dew smaller ones laser cut from the guys the John used (will have to PM you about that later john or chat at the meet in a couple weeks) here is my order

 Item CodeItem NameQuantitySubtotal
 SPDIFMUXMODCS8416 S/PDIF Receiver/MUX Module (Assembled and Tested)1$129.00
 BUF32SDMCOMBOBuffalo32s DAC + Dual-Mono Power Supply Combo1$569.00
 VFWBuffalo32sVolumite Firmware for Buffalo32s DAC (All Versions)1$5.00
 TORXKITTOSLINK Optical Input Module Kit1$18.00
 VOLKITVolumite Base Kit (no Firmware)1$25.00
 15VTRAFO15V+15V (15VA) Power Transformer1$20.00
 9VTRAFO9V+9V (15VA) Power Transformer1$20.00
 SHIPPINGExpress Mail International (EMS)(5 Days): $48.25 to Australia1$48.25

 Order Total:$834.25

 gonna be sweet. so john; is this anything like your build?? maybe we could go in on the enclosures as I expect its cheaper to get the second one as it would only be one setup.

 i'll be running AES, COAX, BNC and optical one of which I may change to i2s once I mod my RME 9632. would like to run headphones direct (bal and SE) and line level outs in BAL and SE if thats doable. if not i'll just run balanced direct and balanced and SE linelevel_

 

Jeremy, not quite the same I have no Volumite, and two LCBPS for the Analogue sections. I’ve bought a HiFi2000 Galaxy case already, drawing up panels on Adobe Illustrator atm, I can pass on drawings let me know, I’ve gone Neutrik all the way for coax and AES, outputs will be XLR and RCA. I’ll also be running toslink and usb. Check out a local cutting shop maybe closer to home (Brisbane), I just picked one out of the book, I’m using another company atm for a Jaycar amp I’m building for a friend.
 I stuffed up my Buff32 board I ran the digital section at 9v instead of 5v, anyways the VREGS looked to be fried. I’ve sold this board as is, I recouped under half my $$. I’ve ordered another Buff32, Brian was kind enough to post straight away realising my dilemma. So mines a really expensive little build 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HEH! Separate rectifiers and regulators is surely close enough! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 *

 While I'm here, I would like to ask for opinions on the panels for my upcoming Buffalo re-case. See the attached PDF's, with a couple of different options for the front; any comments and critique would be appreciated! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hi Beefy looks very nice, I like the understated logo on the side instead of the centre version


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnwmclean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I’ve gone Neutrik all the way for coax and *AES*, outputs will be XLR and RCA._

 

Hmmm, neat idea. I doubt I will ever have an AES source though.

 I'm still tossing up what to do with USB. While it would be nice to have an internal module, I can see it being obsolete in the very near future, with no ability to easily replace it within the constraints of my casework. I'm tempted to add a second Toslink module to mine, and get an external USB-SPDIF adapter.

  Quote:


 I stuffed up my Buff32 board I ran the digital section at 9v instead of 5v, anyways the VREGS looked to be fried. I’ve sold this board as is, I recouped under half my $$. I’ve ordered another Buff32, Brian was kind enough to post straight away realising my dilemma. So mines a really expensive little build 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 

Ouch! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was always worried about the VREG on my original Buffalo board. Even at the low range of the recommended voltage, it was always really hot.

  Quote:


 Hi Beefy looks very nice, I like the understated logo on the side instead of the centre version 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 

HEH! I've had almost an equal number of people on both sides of the fence on other forums


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FallenAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you went with dual-mono, don't you need 2 15V transformers?

 When you add I2S, you'll need an OTTO as well._

 

yeah I did wonder about that and whether it was worth getting another one. was going to add the otto when and if needed; maybe i'll add to the order since it wont be shipping for a while. was trying to stay under 1000AUD so I dont get charged duty. but I think i'm over with shipping anyway.

  Quote:


 Jeremy, not quite the same I have no Volumite, and two LCBPS for the Analogue sections. I’ve bought a HiFi2000 Galaxy case already, drawing up panels on Adobe Illustrator atm, I can pass on drawings let me know, I’ve gone Neutrik all the way for coax and AES, outputs will be XLR and RCA. 
 

 i'm forgoing USB as i'm not really keen on it as a transport medium compared to the other options and its not available anyway at the moment. i'm running furutech panel mount XLR (rhodium) for AES, eichmann RCA for the coax, vampire BNC (matched with furutech connectors and vampire, will see which I like best) outputs are Bocchino tomcat RCA and furutech rhodium XLR (not much choice in chassis mount XLR) not sure what in the way of cap upgrades i'll do and wont make any decisions until its put together stock and i've had a good listen. though I have some duelund copper that I would love to use 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 using cryoparts copper/silver throughout bar IEC using the new Aussie Bocchino IEC and AC parts due for release in a few weeks. finally a supplier of upgraded power connectors. the furutech version for aus is scraping the bottom of the barrel IMO.

  Quote:


 I’ll also be running toslink and usb. Check out a local cutting shop maybe closer to home (Brisbane), I just picked one out of the book, I’m using another company atm for a Jaycar amp I’m building for a friend.
 I stuffed up my Buff32 board I ran the digital section at 9v instead of 5v, anyways the VREGS looked to be fried. I’ve sold this board as is, I recouped under half my $$. I’ve ordered another Buff32, Brian was kind enough to post straight away realising my dilemma. So mines a really expensive little build 
 

that blows man; lesson learned though I guess. I do need to find someone in brisbane for the cutting, but havent got around to finding one yet; but as you can see my build aint gonna be too cheap either 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 so Brian, how do I go about adding to my order without adding another lot of shipping??


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_While I'm here, I would like to ask for opinions on the panels for my upcoming Buffalo re-case. See the attached PDF's, with a couple of different options for the front; any comments and critique would be appreciated! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

21 views of the front panel PDFs and one single comment? Thanks everyone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway, the combined critique of 'Front 1' was mostly the large Buffalo DAC label; critique of 'Front 2' was mostly that the power switch and selector were too close to the middle. The compromise is attached for comment.

 Though unless I have spectacularly borked it, I think this is probably the final version......


----------



## qusp

simple and clean beefy, one thing I would have looked at myself and this is the first version I have looked at, so dont get pssed if it was the way you had it before, but I would prefer the power/lock lettering to be on the right side of the button rather than centered underneath it. I would put | Power|Lock directly to the right of it; with it centered underneath the space doesnt seem quite right to me. the title is not centered under anything, so I would flow anything to the left of center to the right and anything to the right of center to the left. but thats just me. if you are going to align the Buffalo text with the rivet hole I would make it perfectly aligned, not almost aligned. you can tell I was a graphic designer before this.


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so dont get pssed if it was the way you had it before_

 

Heh! Takes much more than that to piss me off 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 but I would prefer the power/lock lettering to be on the right side of the button rather than centered underneath it. 
 

I tried a few combinations without the text underneath, and didn't like any of them as much. I think I'm just so used to having labels under buttons on my existing equipment.

  Quote:


 the title is not centered under anything, so I would flow anything to the left of center to the right and anything to the right of center to the left. 
 

I tried this as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But because the selector assembly is so much bigger than the power switch, the closer things get together the more 'unbalanced' the panel seems.

  Quote:


 if you are going to align the Buffalo text with the rivet hole I would make it perfectly aligned, not almost aligned. you can tell I was a graphic designer before this. 
 

Huh. Something quirky in the PDF process. I double checked, and the centre of the hole and the centre of the text are both at the exact same Y co-ordinate.

 Thanks for the comments


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Heh! Takes much more than that to piss me off 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



_

 

yeah I know, but you know this place and the search feature, where you have to read everything in a thread of subject before making any query or risk permanent blacklisting?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 I tried a few combinations without the text underneath, and didn't like any of them as much. I think I'm just so used to having labels under buttons on my existing equipment. 
 

oh yeah doing it that way would require more tweaking; it always does, but I just prefer that sort of alignment. will be getting into my own panel design shortly after the connectors arrive and I have found a great laser cutter here only about 10 minutes away from me. They will do all sorts of metal, wood, polycarbonate, as well as doing CNC milling, metal folding you name it these guys do it. I reckon i'll get a decent price too as I will be getting some other stuff done there too.



  Quote:


 I tried this as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But because the selector assembly is so much bigger than the power switch, the closer things get together the more 'unbalanced' the panel seems. 
 

fairy nuf 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  Quote:


 Huh. Something quirky in the PDF process. I double checked, and the centre of the hole and the centre of the text are both at the exact same Y co-ordinate.

 Thanks for the comments 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 

must be, maybe I didnt zoom in enough and at less than 100% it threw it out. but it wouldnt be unusual for something to need a little tweaking in PDF. what are you using for the layout BTW??

 no problem on the critique. someone had to step up


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_what are you using for the layout BTW??_

 

I'm just using Front Panel Designer, which is the free software supplied by FPE. I intend to get the panels made by either FPE or Cam Expert in the US.

 There might be somebody local in Halifax who could do it, but without a car to really get around and talk to some folks, I'm snookered. Soooooo much easier to just get them sent to me from a specialist company.


----------



## qusp

found someone like 10 minutes awat that will supply the stock, laser cut, mill and fold the case to my spec 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 waiting on a quote. they will also work with polycarbonate and wood. so i'm thinking about a mixed media case. wood (aboynia) front and back panels, diecast sides and floor and polycarbonate top got a slab of aboynia left from some denon cups, had a vein in an awkward place and was advised that it could explode if lathed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 so thought I would save it for an occasion just like this one.


----------



## oneplustwo

I have the buffalo fed with a toslink wired to D1. The outputs go to XLR jacks, RCA jacks, and a single ended headphone jack. I have a single digital and single analog power supply.

 The problem is at high volume, I get some distortion on both left and right sides. This happens with both balanced and single ended headphones at about the last 15 degrees or so of volumite travel. I pulled the controller off the board and am using the Buffalo firmware chip for the volumite. Otherwise, the SPDIF switch is set to off and the other switches are in their default positions. I have not cut the traces for the output resistors. Is this the next logical step? Or is there something else I should do first?

 (EDIT: single ended headphones are Grado SR-80, balanced headphones are Sennheiser HD650.)


----------



## stew1234

Has anyone heard a buffalo 24 and 32s to compare? I'm curious about the differences in sound quality.


----------



## El_Doug

Having trouble with my LCBPS 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ground to V- measures a perfect -14.5v. However, I get 0v from Ground to V+. All the joints look solid...


 any help would be appreciated


----------



## MrMajestic2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *El_Doug* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Having trouble with my LCBPS 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ground to V- measures a perfect -14.5v. However, I get 0v from Ground to V+. All the joints look solid...


 any help would be appreciated 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Check placement of all components again. A picture would help.


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_found someone like 10 minutes awat that will supply the stock, laser cut, mill and fold the case to my spec 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 waiting on a quote. they will also work with polycarbonate and wood. so i'm thinking about a mixed media case. wood (aboynia) front and back panels, diecast sides and floor and polycarbonate top got a slab of aboynia left from some denon cups, had a vein in an awkward place and was advised that it could explode if lathed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 so thought I would save it for an occasion just like this one._

 

Sounds like a good plan, like to know the cost when the quote comes through, I just got back some milled panels for a Jaycar amp I’m building for a fellow head-fier. I’m not impressed, it won’t matter for this build because all the holes are covered up with the component lips. There’s a white powered edge to the cutting, if it was a component like an XLR you’d see this edge.


----------



## qusp

posted this on the TP forums, but got no responses

  Quote:


 Hi there guys, I should have my dual mono Buff32 with mux, running optical, coax (BNC and RCA) and AES, with a view to tapping DSD or i2s from my RME9632. the kit will be arriving sometime shortly. I would like to be able to use XLR to drive headphones directly (balanced HD600 and woody D2000), as well as output balanced to my KRK active monitors. possible?? I would ideally also be able to drive my Lisa III or other SE headphone amp as well. is the ability to drive headphones direct with the IVY and driving a load like the monitors mutually exclusive?? do I cut the resistor trace in this case?? I would prefer to use the same outputs if possible, to keep impedance in check; instead of wiring in a duplicate line to a separate set of XLRs that bypass the resistor

 please excuse the noob question, while i'm not a total beginner at DIY, I have never dealt with a circuit like this as most of my experience is with cables/headphones/docks/DIYMODS; apart from a gamma1

 thanks in advance 
 

since then i've thought about perhaps using an OTTO to switch between lines to the output. that way I could still use the same XLR outputs, but the output resistors could be 'switched into and out of the signal path. probably would be easier to cut the traces and add my own resistors; perhaps some really nice duelund or some 'Nude' vishay S102. does this sound like a plan??

 add to that, I will probably be running my JH|13 balanced direct as well when they get here. first with a reterminated stock cable, but I will be milling (read carving with a dremmel) my own pins for a cable soon as I get time. I have a SE cable made already.


----------



## DoYouRight

balancing IEMs? This I do not understand


----------



## BrianDonegan

You can cut the traces to enable the resistors for the main XLR outputs. You can then tap the signal just prior to the resistors using the pads for the optional gain adjustment Rs (but not actually using any such Rs) for headphones. You can use both at the same time if you want, and no switches needed.


----------



## qusp

the switch idea is so I can use the same set of XLR outputs, saving space on the panel and less work/cost for laser cutting. so when the switch is engaged, the resistors are in place and if not they arent.. get me?? i'm using furutech rhodium XLRs, so i'd rather not use an extra pair if I can avoid it with a simple switch. I would never use both headphones and speakers at the same time anyway


----------



## FallenAngel

No offense, but by the time you'd notice the difference between Furutech Rhodium XLRs and Neutrik XX series, you'd notice about $100,000 gone from your wallet on other equipment.


----------



## qusp

hehe, no offense taken man, I hear ya!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just wish there was something in between in quality; there really is very little in the way of choice for XLR chassis mounts; i'm usually not a huge fan of furutech (other than their 1/4"). i'm also not usually a big fan of rhodium anything, since its gotta be the rarest material in the signal path there is and a few microns of it is unlikely to do anything much to the sound, never heard the difference when I have used it and usually prefer silver plate, just as you say. I didnt buy them for the rhodium, I bought them for the beryllium copper. its just one of those things where I just want to do this project once and do it well. I dont want to be left wondering whether I could have done something better. the whole is greater than the sum of its parts and all that sort of thing. 

 I guess its a kind of showpiece as well; right down to the enclosure and interconnects. plus PCX had that 20% off everything sale and I came into some money, so I just went for it. bought a whole heap of AC related parts (after I bought a conditioner) too and i'm not convinced of their benefit as yet either.

 I just wish vampire made females, nothing against neutrik, but I just dont want any bronze anywhere and i'm not a fan of gold plating. also rhodium is harder than gold plate, so it will last longer.

 so you could say I meet some of my own choices in this build with some skepticism as well, but like I said, I want to give it the best shot at being a keeper. I've made a round of purchases in the last few weeks that should last me a long time to come and I just thought F&^K it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 besides, you think thats insane, you should see the digital breakout I just made myself to connect from HDSP9632 (AES (BAXLR solderless) and vampire BNC) hehe i'm just having a bit of good clean and very shiny fun. I can think of worse ways to blow a hundred buckeroons. as for all this other stuff in the build.. I have a few simple little words for you to help explain it 

 OEM and tax right off for R&D 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 not directly of course; I dont sell dacs; but as a test bed

 still cost me a mint though


----------



## johnwmclean

TPA where can I get the screw offset sizes/measurements for the pcb’s, I can’t find dimensions anywhere, sure I can manually measure, but I have boards lining up with only a mil or so in between. I like to generate everything on the computer - it would be nice to have these it would help some guess work, this information should be available - or at least I can’t find it anywhere.


----------



## qusp

^^ X2 hows your search for somewhere to get the panels done mate??


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^^ X2 hows your search for somewhere to get the panels done mate??_

 

Same place I got the Beta22 done:

Excel Laser Cutting

 Engraving: (not getting laser etching this time round, simply because of legibility concerns, especially considering the amount of labeling needed for the DAC)

EngravingKing - Trophies, Awards, Engraving, Giftware


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnwmclean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Same place I got the Beta22 done:

Excel Laser Cutting

 Engraving: (not getting laser etching this time round, simply because of legibility concerns, especially considering the amount of labeling needed for the DAC)

EngravingKing - Trophies, Awards, Engraving, Giftware_

 

cool, I was more asking to see that you had sorted that out, as you said you were looking for somewhere new to get it done this time; the guys up here said they would get back to me with a quote based on my spec sometime in this coming week. hopefully thats all sorted out this week, so I can get it ready for the meet. would be cool to get those measurements, I have made it bigger than it probably needs to be, would be nice to have exact dimensions, so I can keep the signal paths for I/O as short as possible.


----------



## qusp

also, just checking; I bought a HIFI tuning silverstar fuse, bought the small 1A fast-blo. from all i've read, when they say fast-blo they mean it, so hoping 1A is enough. I dont want it to blow as soon as I turn this thing on.


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I bought a HIFI tuning silverstar fuse_

 

HiFi stores must rub their hands together with glee when you walk in the door......


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_also, just checking; I bought a HIFI tuning silverstar fuse, bought the small 1A fast-blo. from all i've read, when they say fast-blo they mean it, so hoping 1A is enough. I dont want it to blow as soon as I turn this thing on._

 

I’m using 1A fuse at the moment works fine, with dual LCBPS and LCDPS. I now have a new replacement Buff32 board, running nicely at the recommended 5V.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HiFi stores must rub their hands together with glee when you walk in the door...... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

hehe... hey look I explained my position with this build, i'm trying out a whole heap of stuff that I have previously been incredibly skeptical about (just ask anyone who has talked with me about power cables before). besides only $20 for a fuse I dont see that as being too much to try something out. besides, the fact that the silver stars are 'zero tolerance' makes me feel better as well. many fuses go 10% above their stated limit before anything happens.

 like I said i'm trying some AC tweaks with this build, so no point doing all of that and then running it all through a 10 cent fuse now is there??

 John: good to hear mate, thought i'd be cool, seems the Buff32 would actually be happy with 500ma


----------



## nattonrice

Holy wow that is an expensive fuse! Shiny thou ^^

 Okies I gave John some measurements and whatnot for the TPA modules so with a bit of luck they check out and we can post them here.


----------



## johnwmclean

I’ve have been working on this for a couple of weeks on and off. The black text and graphics are to be laser engraved. The enclosure is a Galaxy 330 x 280 mm, white oxidised aluminium front 3mm and a black oxidised aluminium back.


----------



## Beefy

You have the TPA MUX correct? What sort of switch are you using for the inputs?


----------



## johnwmclean

This one Beefy, it’s the default supplied with the MUX.

 Edit: There’s a typo on the smaller box in the diagram should of been the MUX, I get where your coming from now!


----------



## nattonrice

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnwmclean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I’ve have been working on this for a couple of weeks on and off. The black text and graphics are to be laser engraved. The enclosure is a Galaxy 330 x 280 mm, white oxidised aluminium front 3mm and a black oxidised aluminium back._

 

Excellent =]

 Beefy, it looks like he's using the supplied selector. I'm curious John, how did you know the subtended angle for the switch? Is it a data sheet?


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nattonrice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Excellent =]

 Beefy, it looks like he's using the supplied selector. I'm curious John, how did you know the subtended angle for the switch? Is it a data sheet?_

 


 Yep 15 degree increments as per data sheet.


----------



## Beefy

I just wanted to check, because I think you have the angle wrong. This page claims a changeover angle of 30 degrees. Which would make sense for twelve pins total.

 I think the angle you are looking at is for the location of the stud to prevent the switch rotating in the panel.


----------



## johnwmclean

Genius Beefy, at high school I averaged 99% in tech drawing - it’s been a while since then. LOL.

 Thanks Nattonrice - I think you got the scent of a my mistake as well.


----------



## nattonrice

I was only just playing with it a second ago and I thought perhaps my hands on mechanical reasoning was shot 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Edit: btw how did my measurements look?


----------



## Beefy

Perhaps a quick check is in order, from somebody who has the switch in front of them - that would be you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Over the range of the four clicks, does the switch move a complete 90 degrees?


----------



## nattonrice

Umm on second fiddle it seems as if 15deg is correct. My one doesn't move thru 90deg.
 Gah I think I am too tired.


----------



## johnwmclean

I get 90 degrees over 3 clicks. Which is correct for selectable 4 inputs.


----------



## nattonrice

Hah well it's official! I fail at my own profession.
 I do get 90deg over three clicks.... omg.


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nattonrice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hah well it's official! I fail at my own profession.
 I do get 90deg over three clicks.... omg._


----------



## johnwmclean

PDF file has been updated with ^^ corrections.


----------



## nattonrice

Looks great~
 What knob were you planing on using?
 Another small dact one to match the b22?


----------



## johnwmclean

Nice but too expensive, I need one with a division line though - that points to the chosen input. Not sure yet...


----------



## Beefy

That looks right 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Your case layout is very similar to how I am going to do mine, except my case will be a 19" rackmount, so a fair bit wider than yours. It affords me a lot of extra space for goodies like shielded transformers, an E24 for power switching and room for swapping in Placid power supplies.


----------



## DoYouRight

I dont know if this has been asked here before, but is the best thing to use my Buffalo on my surround sound to just feed the dac into which input of the reciever?


----------



## qusp

I dont understand what you are trying to do?? are you just wanting to feed a stereo signal to the receiver?? or are you actualy wanting to get 5.1 or 7.1 out of the B32?? the former, you just feed it into whatever spare line input you have (not phono), if the latter, it is possible, but the B32 needs some serious tweaking to make it happen; as well as some programming. you will not get surround out of the B32 by just plugging it into a receiver.


----------



## DoYouRight

I would like to use the Bufallo not just for my Beta22 but for my TV, XBOX, everything to my surround sound speakers to get the improved sound, and just have the reciever decode the Dolby stuff. How is the best way to do this?


----------



## nattonrice

In its current design and with the supplied firmware the buff32 will not decode more than 2 channel audio.


----------



## qusp

that was my point, perhaps I wasnt clear enough. there will perhaps be a tweakers build that will allow this sort of functionality, but it will NOT be a straight forward project.


----------



## FallenAngel

Buffalo32 does NOT do more than 2 channels. Though the ESS ES9018 "can" handle 8 channels, this board parallels 4 DACs per channel to improve performance. You'd need to design a new DAC to handle multi-channel conversion.


----------



## DoYouRight

Ok, than nm, it was a shot n the dark. I love the sound of this thing and was hoping maybe somehow I could rig it to run through my other stuff as well.


----------



## akcrusier

Ok I know this is a stupid question. I finished my B24 a few days ago and so I promised my friends a party where I could show off my sound system. Anyway I am having a little problem with the Buffalo32. Specifically I am not getting a lock on anything. I am feeding it via a TP USB reciver via SPDIF (thats ground and D0) into the SPDIF and ground of the buffalo. I have the jumper installed correctly on the USV board and the switch labeled SPDIF on the buffalo switched to on. I double checked my power supplies and everthing seems in order. Is there anything I am missing?

 P.S. I am feeding it with a mac. So it should be just plug in and play right?


----------



## Lil' Knight

Did anyone finish the DAC? I'm still very curious of how it drives headphones (SE and balanced), especially low impedance phones. Would be great if it did a great job cos I'll save some bucks for the amp


----------



## FallenAngel

Sure, I've had one for months. Never used it with headphones directly though.


----------



## Lil' Knight

then do it


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_then do it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That lovely Beta22 could be getting in way


----------



## Lil' Knight

Common', what's the B22 when you have the bigger B32?


----------



## FallenAngel

I don't have Volumite and I already cut traces to easier drive ICs.


----------



## akcrusier

Sorry for the post earlier. It turns out I had the switch reversed on my B24 build which I just finished. It took me four hours to figure out that all I had to do was flip the switch to unbalanced. Needless to say it all works now. So far I am not all that impressed though I am using the volume reduction in itunes as my preamp is not complete and I dont have a Volumite.


----------



## Hottuna_

Well i got my b32 kit from the post office on saturday.
 Put it together with coax from my soundcard directly into the spdif in of the b32
 Must say it was very easy to put together and get working.
 It is working fine feeding my hd650 via my homemade balanced cable.
 Sounds quite refined but it did not blow me away.
 Granted it is still naked on my table and i am doing my volume control in the digital domain in foobar.
 Looking to get a parmetal case soon. (AUD being high is just awesome)


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hottuna_* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well i got my b32 kit from the post office on saturday.
 Put it together with coax from my soundcard directly into the spdif in of the b32
 Must say it was very easy to put together and get working.
 It is working fine feeding my hd650 via my homemade balanced cable.
 Sounds quite refined but it did not blow me away.
 Granted it is still naked on my table and i am doing my volume control in the digital domain in foobar.
 Looking to get a parmetal case soon. (AUD being high is just awesome)_

 

Certainly different than my impressions, blew me away straight off the bat.
 Mind you it’s feeding a Balanced Beta22/HD800 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 My Cambridge 840c remains bruised and battered from the onslaught and sits sulking in the corner.


----------



## nattonrice

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnwmclean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Cambridge 840c remains bruised and battered from the onslaught and sits sulking in the corner._

 

This is epic sig material


----------



## DoYouRight

First off HD650, maybe get HD800?  as you might have hit the max with the little brothers.

 Also, this does have great headphone output for a DAC. But it really shines when it is pushing a dedicated amp like the B22 or even a B52.


----------



## qusp

well my B32 is on the way!! just got my shipping notice this morning. how long did yours take to arrive John??


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well my B32 is on the way!! just got my shipping notice this morning. how long did yours take to arrive John??_

 

Did you pick the fast shipping option, I did, mine took 4 days... bloody fast. You might have it by Friday!


----------



## qusp

yeah UPS, usually pretty bloody quick alright. I recieved my AC parts today, shipped from PCX on thursday last week 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 now I have to get my ass into gear to get a case organized.


----------



## Hottuna_

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnwmclean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Certainly different than my impressions, blew me away straight off the bat.
 Mind you it’s feeding a Balanced Beta22/HD800 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 My Cambridge 840c remains bruised and battered from the onslaught and sits sulking in the corner._

 

Well unfortunately my audio chain is missing several thousand dollars worth of gear to be compared to yours john....
 But eventually......
 This place is truly a money sink.

 Took USPS a bout a week to get mine delivered. Wasn't home when they delivered as usual. Picked it up at the post office Saturday.

 Gotta get the case and tools soon. Get some DIY casework going. Not too confident about this part of the build... Going to give it a go anyway.


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hottuna_* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well unfortunately my audio chain is missing several thousand dollars worth of gear to be compared to yours john....
 But eventually......
 This place is truly a money sink.

 Took USPS a bout a week to get mine delivered. Wasn't home when they delivered as usual. Picked it up at the post office Saturday.

 Gotta get the case and tools soon. Get some DIY casework going. Not too confident about this part of the build... Going to give it a go anyway._

 

Just clearing any doubts you may have regarding the Buff32 performance level, you got some awesome kit there.

 If you need a hand drawing stuff up for the enclosure, shoot me a pm.


----------



## Hottuna_

Cheers John, thanks for the offer.
 Will see how i go. Work is keeping me pretty busy. i am predicting slow progress with the casing.
 However my first hurdle would be getting the case itself. Parmetal seems to be taking awhile to reply my inquiries.

 I am planning to use a 12x12x3" case. By my estimates that would be ample space for the boards.


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hottuna_* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am planning to use a 12x12x3" case. By my estimates that would be ample space for the boards._

 

That’s a bit more roomer than the 280 x 320 x 80mm Galaxy case I have.
 You’ll have space for a kitchen sink 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I’ve used the Parmetal 12x12x3" enclosures for my Beta22, I like the quality better. The Hi-Fi 2000 Galaxy enclosures have very thin bottom and tops, overall they seem a little flimsy compared to Parmetal.


----------



## Hottuna_

Kitchen sink eh
 Good to know. I was thinking i may have had to machine down my kitchen sink to fit it in.
 One thing less to worry about.

 I reckon it will be a good fit. Provision for space to go dual mono in the future.
 If all goes well i may go ahead with a B22 in the same enclosures. Matching boxes.

 Still no reply from parmetal... Will resend inquiry.


----------



## digger945

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnwmclean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Cambridge 840c remains bruised and battered from the onslaught and sits sulking in the corner._

 

LOL

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nattonrice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is epic sig material 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes I agree.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hottuna_* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Still no reply from parmetal... Will resend inquiry._

 

Are you using email? Unless things have changed lately, you will probably have to talk to the lady on the phone to get anywhere with parmetal. I dunno, maybe another Aussie(John?) who has ordered from Parmetal can chime in.


----------



## ted betley

...and I am a relative newby here. Where are good sources of cases? And does a 12 x 12 x 2 case provide enough room? What do I search for wrt to local cutters/engravers for front and back panels? I'm in south eastern Michigan.

 Can't wait to get it and fire it up.


----------



## qusp

god the USPS international tracking is crap!! as son as it leaves the US it drops off the radar. I expect it will just show up and then I will get an email telling me its here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 thats been my experience lately anyway. A little while ago I had a shipment of 4000USD worth of wire and a few other bits and according to tracking it was still being processed for export 5 days later. then it just showed up unannounced. that is actually worse than no tracking in my book. with no tracking you just relax and when it turns up, it turns up; with useless tracking, you have the concern wondering if its gotten lost or something.


----------



## GMF2010

USPS tracking is no better within the states. More often than not it doesn't update till two days after I receive my package.


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_god the USPS international tracking is crap!! as son as it leaves the US it drops off the radar._

 

Try the Auspost tracking sites using the same consignment number: Australia Post- article tracking, parcel tracking item tracking

 There are other Auspost tracking sites that it may come up on as well. Have a search around.


----------



## Hottuna_

A flurry of emails with John at parmetal yesterday and my case is on the way.

 qusp, the package will take awhile to get to you. Hopefully this calms your nerves a little. This is how my tracking went.
 Attempted Delivery Abroad, August 04, 2009, 11:54 am, AUSTRALIA
 At Foreign Delivery Unit, August 03, 2009, 9:17 pm, AUSTRALIA
 Out of Foreign Customs, August 03, 2009, 9:52 am, AUSTRALIA
 Into Foreign Customs, August 03, 2009, 9:14 am, AUSTRALIA
 Arrived Abroad, August 03, 2009, 9:14 am, AUSTRALIA
 International Dispatch, July 29, 2009, 1:56 pm, ISC NEW YORK NY(USPS)

 Anyway, I am also awaiting the redesigned usb receiver module. Will order a second LCBPS to go dual mono then.

 It has been a week since i got my b32s running (balanced direct to my HD650) and i must say i really like it. Maybe my mind is playing tricks on me but i believe I am hearing more detail and the HD650 sounds more balanced throughout the spectrum. The mid bass hump is less apparent.


----------



## BrianDonegan

We decided against redesigning the USB module for the time being. We are just ordering more boards of the existing design.


----------



## DoYouRight

What usb redesign were you thinking about? 24/192? Anyone curious for that should check out the Musiland Monitor 01 USD, has optical, coax, bnc and does 24/192 fantastic and has Mac drivers coming soon. It outperformed my Bel Canto USBLink by features and outputs and sound is completely transparent. It's also cheap 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I probably going to wire mine into my Buffalo chassis so there is no dongle


----------



## nattonrice

No, they were going to make a small panel mount unit like the toslink connector.


----------



## qusp

hi Guys, well i'm wondering if anyone can help me with something re the buffalo grounding scheme. i'm trying to make all the interconnects i'm building for this rig as good as they can possibly be. now to do this, the best way IMO to make both coax and AES cables is to ground the shield at both ends and terminate both ends at the point it enters the case to chassis ground. is the grounding scheme on the Buff32 board going to be cool with that?? I mean I know that depends to an extent on how I put it together, but as long as chassis ground and audio ground are not linked at any point on the PCB then ground loops will not be an issue. I would rather not make inferior compromised interconnects just to be 'safe' by making them directional. i'm also looking at shielding all the connections between the boards via the same type of mechanism and running a separating 'wall' covered with copper foil around the trannies, so i'm assuming that there is a chassis ground set up for this purpose?? I mean being a fully balanced device I would think its cool, but all manner of pro audio gear ignores this simple rule, meaning that the shield in cables looses much of its usefulness; to the point that pretty much everyone in audiophile land and pro-audio makes cables with directional shields; even though the spec for coax and AES is to connect at both ends.

 also, there isnt a more complete manual for the buff32 anywhere is there?? the PDF seems kinda..incomplete; or do I just get some bags of parts labeled and use the PCB layout docs and thats it?? I mean I know there is the headwize product announcement thread, but I cant even seem to find anything in there with the limited time I have had available so far. just a lot of banter about the upcoming release and its specs. 

 am I missing something?? is there a build thread?? or is it a test?? hehe I mean thats cool and all, but some sort of documentation would be nice. I dont need my hand held the whole way with a step by step or anything. no fun in that, but I cant help but feel i'm missing something and google only turns up this and that thread.


----------



## Karlosak

Since the MUX receiver utilizes transformer coupled inputs and outputs, it doesn't really matter. Personally I like to isolate all chassis connectors, then run a star ground scheme inside, whose central point is connected via a ground loop breaker to chassis ground. Some people left the audio ground floating, but it's better when the audio ground potential is defined to the earth's one.

 Just pay attention where your grounds run (i.e. with a digital multimeter). Make sure there are no duplicate paths. For example, if you use the MUX's SPDIF output you should ground the board, but when using the I2S output, it's already grounded with the GND wire. Make sure that the analog and digital ground never mix, they should be connected at one single point (look in the buffalo manual, they may be already connected on the board).

 It is advisable to tie the shield on both cable ends. If the grounding is done well, there should be no problems. Just imagine what a disconnected shield will do with 4-channel balanced amps that are not truly differential (beta22, ...)

 The copper foil around the trannies won't help any purpose. If the shielding isn't made of high permeability material, it won't stop the magnetic interference. Better use some mu-metal foil. I personally use the MagnetShield.

 If you need a guidance with the shielding, look at this thread over at diyaudio. The image bellow is IMHO the absolute best way to ground components though a bit overkill from a safety standpoint:






 If you need a single chassis just mentally "join" the two boxes together and remove the green chassis/safety ground for the second box. When designing your star grounding scheme, picture all the currents that are flowing through the ground. If they are higher power or peaky and noisy in nature, they should have their separate conductor.

 As to the manual, if you expect better step-by-step instructions a la AMB's projects, you expect in vain. It would be nice if Brian or Russ found the time and improved the instructions, but they're more than busy now with shipping the Buffalos (hey, when is mine going to ship? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Karlosak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Since the MUX receiver utilizes transformer coupled inputs and outputs, it doesn't really matter. Personally I like to isolate all chassis connectors, then run a star ground scheme inside, whose central point is connected via a ground loop breaker to chassis ground. Some people left the audio ground floating, but it's better when the audio ground potential is defined to the earth's one._

 

interesting, you know I had been toying with the idea of star grounding the cable and dac shields to an outside ground source, like tying it to a big length of 12AWG UPOCC copper which is then clamped to the plumbing. its a bit pie in the sky, but I have heard good results from a friends system that uses this method. only viable if you are building everything in the system.

 also just before reading your post had come across the concept (again) of transformer coupling; well that makes for a good SE implementation as well; nice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 Just pay attention where your grounds run (i.e. with a digital multimeter). Make sure there are no duplicate paths. For example, if you use the MUX's SPDIF output you should ground the board, but when using the I2S output, it's already grounded with the GND wire. Make sure that the analog and digital ground never mix, they should be connected at one single point (look in the buffalo manual, they may be already connected on the board). 
 

good info/reminders, thanks for that. 

  Quote:


 It is advisable to tie the shield on both cable ends. If the grounding is done well, there should be no problems. 
 

exactly my point 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, but even many experienced builders do not do this, because of the nightmare of other people's gear/designs. so the implementation is often kinda half-assed

  Quote:


 Just imagine what a disconnected shield will do with 4-channel balanced amps that are not truly differential (beta22, ...) 
 

yowsa yeah

  Quote:


 The copper foil around the trannies won't help any purpose. If the shielding isn't made of high permeability material, it won't stop the magnetic interference. Better use some mu-metal foil. I personally use the MagnetShield. 
 

cool, i'll check that out, I actually have some Mumetal around here, but probably not enough, also have some ERS tape, foil is just something I have plenty of and I guess i'm trying to apply some cable logic to areas that it doesnt apply.

  Quote:


 If you need a guidance with the shielding, look at this thread over at diyaudio. The image bellow is IMHO the absolute best way to ground components though a bit overkill from a safety standpoint:





 

cool, will try and find the time to study that properly; thats the problem with this is that i'm going to be impatient to get it done, but at the same time i'm sooooo busy with my cables biz ATM that finding the time to get it done properly is going to be difficult. I can just hobble it together temporarily though I guess (terminal blocks) and work on the final design/chassis for however long it takes.


  Quote:


 If you need a single chassis just mentally "join" the two boxes together and remove the green chassis/safety ground for the second box. When designing your star grounding scheme, picture all the currents that are flowing through the ground. If they are higher power or peaky and noisy in nature, they should have their separate conductor. 
 

yeah well i'd love to do a 2 box build, but i've already redlined my budget on this as it is, getting 2 cases of this quality done would just be far too costly. suppose the PSU chassis could be done on the cheap though.

  Quote:


 As to the manual, if you expect better step-by-step instructions a la AMB's projects, you expect in vain. It would be nice if Brian or Russ found the time and improved the instructions, but they're more than busy now with shipping the Buffalos (hey, when is mine going to ship? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) 
 

no no, i've come into this knowing its not like an AMB project and i'm kinda glad it isnt; not because they dont do a good job, because they do a great job, but I kinda wanted to be thrown in the deep end a little more with this. All the same though, something in between would be nice. not so much a step by step, because thats kinda like drawing by numbers, but just more complete documentation. You are totally right; those guys are run off their feet as it is and its great that this even exists, so i'm not complaining. just trying to get my head in the right space for doing this the right way, with the constraints that I have on my time and trying to keep my ambition in check a little.

 thanks for taking the time to put together such a great and helpful post man; much appreciated.


----------



## tako_tsubo

Hi, new here....but what would the minimum I would need to order for a simple SE buffalo dac? Will be replacing a Lavry dac going into a ZDT running Senn HD800.
 Do not really need usb input...as I have a"classic" freeway...but if it makes sense to add it, then which parts then to get? 
 I think I have found a builder for it, as I am just a simple solderer. But he left on trip and has been off line...before we got to discuss the parts list.
 thanks

 edit:
 I'm thinking 
 1. Dac + dual mono PS combo kit
 2.Toslink module
 3.15v +15v transformer
 4.9v+9v transformer
 at the minimum?
 add 4:1 MUX and the usb receiver/dac if I want to go usb? case and sundry parts can be added later...


----------



## oneplustwo

First, you wouldn't need the dual mono for a "minimum" build. If you do go dual mono, then you would want 2 of the 15V trafos. The 4:1 MUX isn't necessary, you could just add a simple switch. If you did add the 4:1, you might as well add a simple coax in as well. That's about it for the guts. Case and sundries wouldn't be trivial especially if you have multiple outs, so be sure to spend time thinking through that as well.


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


 hi Guys, well i'm wondering if anyone can help me with something re the buffalo grounding scheme. i'm trying to make all the interconnects i'm building for this rig as good as they can possibly be. now to do this, the best way IMO to make both coax and AES cables is to ground the shield at both ends and terminate both ends at the point it enters the case to chassis ground. is the grounding scheme on the Buff32 board going to be cool with that?? I mean I know that depends to an extent on how I put it together, but as long as chassis ground and audio ground are not linked at any point on the PCB then ground loops will not be an issue. I would rather not make inferior compromised interconnects just to be 'safe' by making them directional. i'm also looking at shielding all the connections between the boards via the same type of mechanism and running a separating 'wall' covered with copper foil around the trannies, so i'm assuming that there is a chassis ground set up for this purpose?? I mean being a fully balanced device I would think its cool, but all manner of pro audio gear ignores this simple rule, meaning that the shield in cables looses much of its usefulness; to the point that pretty much everyone in audiophile land and pro-audio makes cables with directional shields; even though the spec for coax and AES is to connect at both ends. 
 

Do not ground your connections to the chassis. Keep them isolated and run them directly to the Buffalo. Grounding is all taken care of there. Connect the mains ground (earth) to the chassis. If you want, you can link your power supply output grounds to the chassis, but it is not strictly required. I would not link any of the digital or analog signal grounds to the chassis, as you will likely end up with a nice ground loop.


----------



## tako_tsubo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oneplustwo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_First, you wouldn't need the dual mono for a "minimum" build. If you do go dual mono, then you would want 2 of the 15V trafos. The 4:1 MUX isn't necessary, you could just add a simple switch. If you did add the 4:1, you might as well add a simple coax in as well. That's about it for the guts. Case and sundries wouldn't be trivial especially if you have multiple outs, so be sure to spend time thinking through that as well._

 

thanks!


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do not ground your connections to the chassis. Keep them isolated and run them directly to the Buffalo. Grounding is all taken care of there. Connect the mains ground (earth) to the chassis. If you want, you can link your power supply output grounds to the chassis, but it is not strictly required. I would not link any of the digital or analog signal grounds to the chassis, as you will likely end up with a nice ground loop._

 

thanks Brian, so all connectors are isolated. and to both you a Russ, really great job on the kits. last night over a couple of hours, while doing some other work, I was able to knock up the mux, 2 x LCDPS, OTTO and started on the LCBPS. the boards arew so well laid out and the kits so well put together that at least for these lessor boards, I was able to run prety much on automatic, taking the design in as I went. 

 so after a bit of a kip, some business related work and a couple coffees, i'm gonna go ahead with the Buf32 board. then I can have a good think about the final layout. ^^ that will make things much easier I tell ye, now I just need to work out how i'm going to shield off the trannies. so brian, seeing as I received 2 x 25v toroids instead of 2 x 15v (as discussed), is there anything that I need to adjust personally, or have you already changed some parts? or is the only adjustment needed, done by changing the 'pot' on the power supplies??


----------



## nattonrice

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I just need to work out how i'm going to shield off the trannies. so brian, seeing as I received 2 x 25v toroids instead of 2 x 15v (as discussed), is there anything that I need to adjust personally, or have you already changed some parts? or is the only adjustment needed, done by changing the 'pot' on the power supplies??_

 

How were you planning on shielding? afaik anything short of mu-metal like stuff is not worth the effort. Perhaps that new stuff from lessemf...


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thanks Brian, so all connectors are isolated. and to both you a Russ, really great job on the kits. last night over a couple of hours, while doing some other work, I was able to knock up the mux, 2 x LCDPS, OTTO and started on the LCBPS. the boards arew so well laid out and the kits so well put together that at least for these lessor boards, I was able to run prety much on automatic, taking the design in as I went. 

 so after a bit of a kip, some business related work and a couple coffees, i'm gonna go ahead with the Buf32 board. then I can have a good think about the final layout. ^^ that will make things much easier I tell ye, now I just need to work out how i'm going to shield off the trannies. so brian, seeing as I received 2 x 25v toroids instead of 2 x 15v (as discussed), is there anything that I need to adjust personally, or have you already changed some parts? or is the only adjustment needed, done by changing the 'pot' on the power supplies??_

 


 The trafos are 15V, but 25VA instead of 15VA (this is due to a temporary shortage of the 15VA at Avel). Just adjust the trimmer on the PSUs to set the desired voltage as usual.

 Toroidal transformers have very very low leakage; the leakage they do have is generally on the axis on the hole. I have mounted transformers right under the power supplies with no adverse effects, so you could try no shielding at first before spending a lot of time and money on it.


----------



## luvdunhill

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The trafos are 15V, but 25VA instead of 15VA (this is due to a temporary shortage of the 15VA at Avel). Just adjust the trimmer on the PSUs to set the desired voltage as usual.

 Toroidal transformers have very very low leakage; the leakage they do have is generally on the axis on the hole. I have mounted transformers right under the power supplies with no adverse effects, so you could try no shielding at first before spending a lot of time and money on it._

 

Avel actually will provide (free of charge even) belly-bands for their toroids. I bet since Brian orders directly from them, he could speak with them about including them.

 After speaking with an engineer at Avel, as Brian said, the first place to be considerate of is on axis with the hole, and the second is the point at which the leads enter and exit the side of the toroid.


----------



## Karlosak

I received my Buffalo32s kit on Thursday. The package didn't feel anything special, though quite heavy. But how surprised I was after opening it! The packaging was exquisite, just see for yourself:







 Every piece of kit in a separate labeled box, wow! You outdid yourself Brian. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now I understand why it takes so long to ship.
 The not so pleasant things: The two 15+15V toroids are indeed 25VA instead of 15V. I said for myself - fine, I got more powerful trannies as a bonus. However my enthusiasm quickly vanished when I found that I couldn't cram them into my intended enclosure. What the...? I'd precisely laid out every component beforehand, so it was really surprising.

*The truth is, the 25VA toroids are larger in diameter, [size=medium]70mm[/size] instead of 60mm as indicated. Even the smaller 9+9V is [size=medium]63mm[/size].*

 I wanted to point this out, as other builders might find this out late as me. What's more troubling, I didn't received any prior notice from TPA that the toroids shipped are different. I find it highly unprofessional to ship different goods than what I'd paid for and what was on my invoice. I'm sure many other builders will be happy with the bigger trannies, but this is definitely not the right thing to do.
 I said fine, I'll send an e-mail and we will settle this out, but to this day I didn't received any reply. Truth spoken, I already sent two e-mails and never received any reply. I'm sorry to crap this thread with my customer problems, but no matter how good the TPA products are, I find the communication severely lacking. Maybe it's a technical problem (spam filtering), maybe a decision on Brian's part to improve his time management. Who knows. Just be forewarned. For many it's not a big tax to pay for all these great products we receive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Perhaps Brian could shed some light on it...


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Karlosak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I said fine, I'll send an e-mail and we will settle this out, but to this day I didn't received any reply. Truth spoken, I already sent two e-mails and never received any reply. I'm sorry to crap this thread with my customer problems, but no matter how good the TPA products are, I find the communication severely lacking. Maybe it's a technical problem (spam filtering), maybe a decision on Brian's part to improve his time management. Who knows. Just be forewarned. For many it's not a big tax to pay for all these great products we receive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Perhaps Brian could shed some light on it..._

 

I just saw this and found your email in my spam folder, but only one. I'll will make it right for you. Sorry about that.


----------



## digger945

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Karlosak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I received my Buffalo32s kit on Thursday.


*The truth is, the 25VA toroids are larger in diameter, [size=medium]70mm[/size] instead of 60mm as indicated. Even the smaller 9+9V is [size=medium]63mm[/size].*

 . Just be forewarned. ._

 

Brian has already pointed that out in this thread.

 It would be remarkable to know how many times I have placed an order from one of my suppliers only to find out that the product is "out of stock" or "backordered", and my suppliers don't go to the trouble of making sure that I have a suitable replacement for the part either. It is nice to know that TPA will go out of the way to ship something as good as or better than what you ordered, instead of sending nothing at all but a piece of paper stating the part is "backordered".


----------



## Karlosak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just saw this and found your email in my spam folder, but only one. I'll will make it right for you. Sorry about that._

 

Aha, that explains it! Thanks for sorting this out. The first e-mail was a general question about USB receiver availability, nothing so important.

 As digger945 said, I received a more expensive part for the same cost. Now imagine having to wait with your order for a month or so before Avel condescends to stock this trannies again. What could be worse?


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


 Now imagine having to wait with your order for a month or so before Avel condescends to stock this trannies again. 
 

Avel agreed to supply me with the 25VA units at the same cost as the 15VA units to complete my order. They are a very good supplier. I also now have 15VA units again in both voltages.


----------



## chaospanda

Noob question, where do you buy the enclosure for this dac?


----------



## GMF2010

There is no "stock enclosure," per say. You can use anything that meets your fancy and that will fit all the components, of course. This enclosure works nicely - Par-Metal.


----------



## FallenAngel

Pick any enclosure you want and buy.


----------



## chaospanda

So basically, you buy your own enclosure and drill your own holes?


----------



## FallenAngel

Bingo


----------



## nattonrice

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chaospanda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So basically, you buy your own enclosure and drill your own holes?_

 

or get them cut from a CAD design, yep


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chaospanda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Noob question, where do you buy the enclosure for this dac?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chaospanda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So basically, you buy your own enclosure and drill your own holes?_

 

Uh-oh! The pre-machined cases for various Milletts have clearly set a dangerous precedent


----------



## johnwmclean

I’ve been using Airport Express recently as a wireless music server. I’ve noticed the Buff32/Mux via toslink/spdif is occasionally dropping out of lock usually 30 sec into a track momentarily. Switching back to toslink directly from my mac has no such problems, I think I’m going to abandon the whole wireless idea - this is my second dac that has had similar problems with APE.


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnwmclean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I’ve been using Airport Express recently as a wireless music server. I’ve noticed the Buff32/Mux via toslink/spdif is occasionally dropping out of lock usually 30 sec into a track momentarily. Switching back to toslink directly from my mac has no such problems, I think I’m going to abandon the whole wireless idea - this is my second dac that has had similar problems with APE._

 

Ditch that Mac crap and get a Logitech Squeezebox?


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ditch that Mac crap and get a Logitech Squeezebox?_

 

My world revolves around macs, iphone using remote via itunes = bliss, I haven’t got a problem with the functionality. 

 It’s seems like APE and Buff32 conflict, the DAC’s re-clocking the data somehow and tripping up. If I can’t get around the problem I just keep doing optical directly out of the mac.


----------



## boinger

Low current dual powersupply question

 for the common mode choke, L1 / L2

 I see a dot on the circuit board indicating orientation. But I looked at the data sheet and I wasnt able to find anything to do with how to orient L1 and L2, plus there are no markers on the thing to make a reference from.


----------



## Ferrari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boinger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Low current dual powersupply question

 for the common mode choke, L1 / L2

 I see a dot on the circuit board indicating orientation. But I looked at the data sheet and I wasnt able to find anything to do with how to orient L1 and L2, plus there are no markers on the thing to make a reference from._

 


 A choke (inductor) is non-polar, like resistors.
 Just solder it on its place on the PCB and you are fine.


----------



## boinger

ah ok i had thought so but the dot just confused me 

 thanks a bunch


----------



## qusp

well I wish i had thought about that before I desoldered one because it wasnt orientated correctly. there is actually a small dot on the side of the inductor, like a tiny raised dot in the plastic, which I only noticed after looking very closely after being confused at the purpose of the dot myself and so I think I may have damaged one inductor desoldering it. one of the conmtacts came off the coil when removing it, but I was able to solder it back on with minimum effort; its a tiny bit mis-shapen, but appears to be fine and stoill fits on its contacts just fine. Soldering it back on the 'right' way was a total PITA, because the board was fully populated. havent fired it up yet to see if it works. 

 Brian, any chance you could pop one in the mail for me?? do you have any spare. of course i'll sort you out for shipping and whatever the part costs. making an order specifically for that from overseas will be very costly. everything else went swimmingly and i'm just waiting on my case before I fire it up. its taking a while, so i'm very tempted to mount it on a bread board in the meantime to test.

 is there a check routine that I can go through to see whether it is OK or not?? or is firing it up and testing for voltage the only way?? sorry for the noob question, as I said this is my first project like this and these are the first power supplies I have made; other than the onboard one on the gamma1. i'm cautious, because it involves power and I certainly dont want to connect it to the B32 to test.


----------



## boinger

Well my guess a check would be to test teh g and V- and V+ pads with a meter and see if your getting the correct desired voltage as you would have to do with a sigma22 psu. 

 I will let u know more when i build mine.


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_is there a check routine that I can go through to see whether it is OK or not?? or is firing it up and testing for voltage the only way?? sorry for the noob question, as I said this is my first project like this and these are the first power supplies I have made; other than the onboard one on the gamma1. i'm cautious, because it involves power and I certainly dont want to connect it to the B32 to test._

 

qusp, as boinger stated check the psu’s first before connecting up the Buff32, adjusting the trim pots to their respected voltages - if you manage correct readings then your ok to power up the Buff.
 Are you using the Avel Lindberg trannies? Remember to solder and heat shrink the purple and grey primaries for 230v.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boinger* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well my guess a check would be to test teh g and V- and V+ pads with a meter and see if your getting the correct desired voltage as you would have to do with a sigma22 psu. 

 I will let u know more when i build mine._

 

yeah well sure, but was just wondering if there was a way to test with just a meter without powering them up; if the inductor is dead I guess it just wont do anything, rather than burning out the caps or something?? would just mean an open circuit??

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnwmclean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_qusp, as boinger stated check the psu’s first before connecting up the Buff32, adjusting the trim pots to their respected voltages - if you manage correct readings then your ok to power up the Buff.
 Are you using the Avel Lindberg trannies? Remember to solder and heat shrink the purple and grey primaries for 230v._

 

of course!! I was not talking about connecting up to the B32 to test, but rather connecting up the LCBPS to test. i'm actually using the terminal blocks for everything except the outputs, as I know how much I like to fiddle and using them will enable that easily, without multiple soldering and resoldering of the pads. Then once i've settled on a favourite configuration with hook-up wire etc; i'll just solder to the underside. plus it means less lead in the signal path 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 yeah i'm using the avel trannies (2 x 25v and 1 x 15v because they ran out), was actually about to look up the data sheet on them, since they dont have it all marked on the side. you mean together for 230 and the outputs are what black (V-) and red (V+) and orange (V-) and yellow (V+) correct??


 like I said first time with anything like this and its pretty serious stuff 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i'm gonna have to go buy myself a new meter too, the one i've been surviving on since the move disappeared one; doesnt have alligator clips, just a couple of spikes that I would have to hold onto ^^


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i'm actually using the terminal blocks for everything except the outputs,_

 

I knew you’d do that, I expected nothing less 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_was actually about to look up the data sheet on them, since they dont have it all marked on the side. the grey is marked (2 x 115v), but not purple so I assume the grey is positive and the purple is negative?? and the outputs are what black (V-) and red (V+) or is it yellow and orange? or can I choose either??_

 

FOR 240V OPERATION AVEL LINDBERG TRANFORMERS ARE WIRED:

 Connect the grey wire to the violet wire and insulate/heatshrink it.

 The secondaries output AC, so they aren't positive or negative, but you do have to make sure you connect them in the proper order so that the phase is not messed up.
 You simply connect the secondary wires to the terminal block in the following order: Black, red, orange, yellow

 It doesn't matter whether it's from left to right or vice versa.


----------



## Karlosak

Well qusp, I think your desoldering work was needless. It doesn't matter which way you solder the common mode chokes. Russ comments about it over at the TPA forum.

 Concerning testing - a look in the schematics cannot harm. You'll see that the chokes are in series with the main lines. If the inductor lost contact to it's pad, then it would simply mean open circuit and no voltage.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnwmclean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I knew you’d do that, I expected nothing less 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 hehe am I THAT predictable ;D


  Quote:


 Connect the grey wire to the violet wire and insulate/heatshrink it.

 The secondaries output AC, so they aren't positive or negative, but you do have to make sure you connect them in the proper order so that the phase is not messed up.
 You simply connect the secondary wires to the terminal block in the following order: Black, red, orange, yellow

 It doesn't matter whether it's from left to right or vice versa. 
 

**** hey; shows you how long it is since I worked with AC, totally vagued on no polarity for alternating current in my post LOL; my work is almost entirely to do with DC voltage; my knowledge in this area is very specific, but i'm growing it all the time. I also probably do too much thinking out loud on here and pose too many rhetorical questions; which brings me to this vv

 hehe I see you quoted an earlier version of my post. do you get this thread funneled through to your email immediately or something??

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Karlosak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well qusp, I think your desoldering work was needless. It doesn't matter which way you solder the common mode chokes. Russ comments about it over at the TPA forum.

 Concerning testing - a look in the schematics cannot harm. You'll see that the chokes are in series with the main lines. If the inductor lost contact to it's pad, then it would simply mean open circuit and no voltage._

 

as I said above; more thinking out loud with that 'question' than anything; I should probably do less of that, or go back and edit afterwards. it just helps me to process it myself to put things down in writing. thanks for the response though. I had thought everything was cool as well, but then noticed the dots after I had finished the first board. seeing as inductors are basically similar to resistors gut said cool; but noticed each inductor has a small raised dot on one side, so my OCD took over and I had to desolder it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 thanks for the help guys, I dont just rely on you guys to do it for me, but as I said it helps me to work through stuff externally; so I tend to google, think things through, but also write down a train of thought on here in case my logic is floored.


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hehe I see you quoted an earlier version of my post. do you get this thread funneled through to your email immediately or something??_

 

must have got in before you edited, funnily enough my email is the latest quote - go figure 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I’m picking up my cut panels today, a quick check and there off for laser engraving, I’m crossing my fingers all my measurements line up...


----------



## nattonrice

Wow you move quick!
 I've wiring everything up before I dismantle the three panels for engraving.
 Ass backwards I know but I want to make sure everything actually works lol...


----------



## qusp

whats the inrush current like on this baby?? do I really need a soft start circuit? i'm thunking in the long term yes, to prolong the life of the parts, but short term is it totally necessary?? I mean these are pretty small trannies, so I would imagine the resistance in the windings itself would halt it pretty quickly. or am I out of my depth again ??


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


 do I really need a soft start circuit 
 

No.


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nattonrice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow you move quick!
 I've wiring everything up before I dismantle the three panels for engraving.
 Ass backwards I know but I want to make sure everything actually works lol..._

 

Are you etching or engraving? I've hit a few snags with my desired design - I might have to settle on a combination of the two.


----------



## DoYouRight

cant wait to see your finished buffalo john!


----------



## nattonrice

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnwmclean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you etching or engraving? I've hit a few snags with my desired design - I might have to settle on a combination of the two._

 

I'm leaning towards both too.
 I have some free time tonight and I was planning on finalizing what I want in what.
 Snags? Measurement problems? How did the fitment go?


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nattonrice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm leaning towards both too.
 I have some free time tonight and I was planning on finalizing what I want in what.
 Snags? Measurement problems? How did the fitment go?_

 

mmm... Got the panels back today, the holes in the base are ok but there all slightly shifted. I reckon I'll be drilling the holes for the USB module a little bigger and putting washers in place - jobs not to bad. Front panel is perfect, back panel being black at first looked terrible - but most of it's sputter and should clean off. I'm on the train atm so until I can get home and get some time tonight to check I'll know better. But all looks to be an ok if not great job.

 Laser etching on alo at small font sizes will be really hard to see, I'm doing the logo and border as etching and small spec text as engraving. Back panel will be totally engraved for silver text out of the black panel. Unfortunately the diamond head engraving machines used for plain aluminum won't do larger logos or borders, it's ok for black coated alo but not plain, where they need to cut deeper for standout. My original plan for a totally laser engraved job is foiled.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_cant wait to see your finished buffalo john!_

 


 I'll post pics when it's all done - where are your Beta22 pics?


----------



## boinger

Just finished assembling my dac today 







 I must say it sounds freaking amazing! 

 Although one of my powersupplies was acting odd... i could not get it to budge from -21V... But the + rail is fine at +15V


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


 Although one of my powersupplies was acting odd... i could not get it to budge from -21V... But the + rail is fine at +15V 
 

Check to be sure IC1 is LM317 and IC2 is LM337.


----------



## boinger

Yep thats reversed will try and swap em then see if its working.


----------



## qusp

is there supposed to be a metal top AND bottom cover for the trannies?? I seem to only have 3 pieces for 3 trannies


----------



## Beefy

No. Usually you would place a rubber ring underneath and on top, then a metal cover on top only.

 Oh, and could your sig _possibly_ be any bigger


----------



## qusp

yeah thats how i've got it; 

 yeah at the point of putting it all in my profile. I havent even seen what it probably looks like to other people. I have 2 x 23" monitors, so isnt that bad on here, but its not FOR me, so thanks for reminding me. I actually cut it back recently to, but then more stuff came in and I added that and got rid of a few things etc etc. but yeah thanks; will get it into my profile in the next day or so when I find a spare minute


----------



## DoYouRight

I still havent cased up anything John, its working but loose on the desk. Im trying to make the chassis perfect for me. and also deciding if I want the Buffalo to match the width and stuff. I dont want to redo it again so Im being very picky.


----------



## boinger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Check to be sure IC1 is LM317 and IC2 is LM337._

 

I actually misread the label on them LM317 / 337 are in the correct positions. IC1 / IC2 respectively


----------



## boinger

My completed poor mans buffalo
















 its lined with tin for grounding / heat control. Although it hasnt generated too much heat yet for me to be worried about. I will eventually get a better case made when i have access to a place that can make one.

 still only have the one lcbps running 

 cant seem to workout why i can only get -21 V on the negative rail.


----------



## digger945

Did you check the resistor value on the adjust pin of the reg in question?
 Perhaps take a voltage reading on that pin also to see if it is in line with the datasheet.


----------



## BrianDonegan

It could just be a bad trimmer pot. I can send a replacement. You can check with a multi-meter to see if you are getting and variation in resistance while turning it.

 Alternatively, it could be a bad/cold solder joint or a reversed diode.


----------



## ted betley

Tried adjusting pot 3 or 4 turns still read 0 volts. Any ideas on what to check?

 I'm getting 16 volts ac out of transformers but 0 volts on other end.


----------



## BrianDonegan

It would probably be better to cover these issues on our support forum.


----------



## boinger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It could just be a bad trimmer pot. I can send a replacement. You can check with a multi-meter to see if you are getting and variation in resistance while turning it.

 Alternatively, it could be a bad/cold solder joint or a reversed diode._

 

upon your suggestions i carefully inspected the board against the layout and I did manage to reverse D4 

 Although I am going out of town tommorow so I will have to fix this when I come back. Will keep you guys updated.


----------



## qusp

are the pots on the power supplies isolated?? ie. can I adjust them with a metal handled screwdriver while they are drawing current?? or is it a matter of adjusting a quarter turn at a time power-up, test across +->ground, shut off power, wait for the power caps to discharge, rinse, repeat until the right voltage is found??


----------



## johnwmclean

Adjusting the pots whilst current is running with a screwdriver is the only way you’ll get exact measurements, if your worried insulate the screw driver with tape so only the tip pokes out - in case you should brush against something you shouldn’t, the pot screws are isolated from current.


----------



## johnwmclean

My enclosure,

 Currently like this:

http://i30.tinypic.com/15wml9u.jpg

 going into this:

http://i26.tinypic.com/ws2obb.jpg

http://i28.tinypic.com/2zjckgg.jpg

http://i30.tinypic.com/sb0l1l.jpg

http://i30.tinypic.com/t6a2p3.jpg


----------



## aloksatoor

@john very clean build... congrats


----------



## Lil' Knight

Very impressive case, John!


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnwmclean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Adjusting the pots whilst current is running with a screwdriver is the only way you’ll get exact measurements, if your worried insulate the screw driver with tape so only the tip pokes out - in case you should brush against something you shouldn’t, the pot screws are isolated from current._

 

yeah I figured they would be, but all the same I found myself wearing rubber gloves and doing the adjustments with them sitting on top of a plastic washing machine lid 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 before I saw this reply and checked the net for info, I did actually manage to match one of the LCBPS at 13v by turning a bit, then turning off power and repeating until matched 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 so its possible, but time consuming 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 turns oiut I did in fact kill the inductor as I feared when desoldering it, the other rail is fine though. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnwmclean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My enclosure,

 Currently like this:

http://i30.tinypic.com/15wml9u.jpg

 going into this:

http://i26.tinypic.com/ws2obb.jpg

http://i28.tinypic.com/2zjckgg.jpg

http://i30.tinypic.com/sb0l1l.jpg

http://i30.tinypic.com/t6a2p3.jpg





_

 

nice work mate; i'm getting there too, had a couple of speedbumps, but its all good. soon as I get this bloody case sorted out i'll be able to get it all together.


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did actually manage to match one of the LCBPS at 13v by turning a bit, then turning off power and repeating until matched 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 so its possible, but time consuming 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Congrats for your patience, even with a DDM and two probes it took me quite a while. Why 13v? Should it not be 15V, are you doing something different?


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnwmclean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congrats for your patience, even with a DDM and two probes it took me quite a while. Why 13v? Should it not be 15V, are you doing something different?_

 

yeah it took a bit of patience, the manual specs range between 12-15v, so I tried 13v to start with, if I can chew a little less power with good results all well and good. I can always pump it up a notch if needed.


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yeah it took a bit of patience, the manual specs range between 12-15v, so I tried 13v to start with, if I can chew a little less power with good results all well and good. I can always pump it up a notch if needed._

 

In the manual I can only see a ±15VDC spec for running the analog section.


----------



## qusp

huh; wonder where I saw that then; was definitely in the twisted pear stuff. gonna go search that out now and see

 edit: its on the buff32 page noit in the manual



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *twisted pear* 
_The Buffalo module requires two power supplies. *The digital section requires 5-7.5VDC and the two analog I/V sections require a ±12 to ±15VDC supply*. We offer a combination of the Buffalo32s and our Low Current Dual Power Supply (LCDPS) and Low Current Bi-Polar Power Supply (LCBPS) below. Each supply requires it's own separate transformer. We recomend a 2 x 6-9V(15VA) transformer for the digital section and a 15V+15V (15VA or greater) transformer for the analog I/V sections. Suitable transformers are available here._


----------



## DoYouRight

I wonder if matching cases for B22 and Buffalo is necessary... 

 I have bought a few enclosures, but keep on changing my mind. I see stuff like dacs smaller and I cant make up my mind, very difficult. When its done its done, I dont want to unsolder everything.


----------



## soloz2

that would be personal preference.


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_huh; wonder where I saw that then; was definitely in the twisted pear stuff. gonna go search that out now and see

 edit: its on the buff32 page noit in the manual_

 

mmm... I see what you mean. That’s really confusing, there’s a few discrepancies in the manual as well. 
 Another thing to watch out for is the 1.1 board has 0-ohm jumpers installed at positions L1 and L2 so there’s no need to join AGND and GND as the 1.0 manual states.

 ...but I’d like to know what the exact recommended voltages are 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 BRIAN!


----------



## mourip

I have read the threads both here and on the TP web site but am still unclear as to how to wire headphones to my Buff32 DAC. I will have connections to both an amp and also a headphone jack. Based upon what I have read I want to cut the four traces which are marked on the board and then wire the HP's to the pads of R47 to 50 closest to the output terminals. 

 Are these the pads that are on the top of the board directly next to the trace cuts and also serve as soldering points for the output adjustment resistors? If so which would be + and which would be ground?

 I have the DAC up an running in it's case. Very detailed but surprisingly not an order of magnitude above the OPUS. Loads of detail however and also a little bright with my Signal Silver cables. I may need to go back to copper...

 Any help with the wiring appreciated....

 Best,

 Paul


----------



## DoYouRight

Hey guys are you looking into the new Sabre chip 9022! It says something about 2Vrms and pop free with 3.3v.
ESS Products - DAC


----------



## digger945

Looks like maybe a 9018 with built in op-amp.
 The more interesting feature to me is the 16-SOP package and single 3.3V power supply requirement. Wonder if the pinout matches any other high end 16 pin chips.


----------



## BrianDonegan

The ES9022 is a 24-bit dac and designed for budget implementations. It is not an upgrade to the 9018.


----------



## DoYouRight

oh ok thanks brian


----------



## ted betley

I have recently put together a Buf32s...wonderful sound. I am now trying a LiFePo4 battery supply for digital. Question if I shut down the Buffalo will I draw the battery down?


----------



## johnwmclean

Has anyone had luck with getting a nice matched knob for the rotary switch supplied with the mux. Some knobs have their screw/s quite low it only makes contact with the thread, specs regarding knobs except for shaft sizes are proving very difficult to find. Measurements such as internal hole lengths are non existent. Any help would be great. 

http://sigma.octopart.com/160874/dat...2511F-34NS.pdf


----------



## qusp

nope, but this is the reason I just bought another rotary for the mux. I also find that its incredibly stiff. but you are right, specs with knobs are difficult to find. I'm considering getting some custom wooden ones turned, but for the moment i'm just using a couple of smallish silver A-NOTE ones. I wish I could find a slightly larger matching one for the volume, for the moment they are both the same


----------



## MisterX

Try a flat washer (or two) between the switch and the the panel to keep the knob's grub screw from binding on the "thread".


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_nope, but this is the reason I just bought another rotary for the mux. I also find that its incredibly stiff. but you are right, specs with knobs are difficult to find. I'm considering getting some custom wooden ones turned, but for the moment i'm just using a couple of smallish silver A-NOTE ones. I wish I could find a slightly larger matching one for the volume, for the moment they are both the same_

 

It’s not so stiff when you attach a knob and have some leverage, but yeah your right it’s still quite stiff 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What rotary did you end up buying? I’ve just enquired about a nice goldpoint knob:

GOLDPOINT 1.4" ALUMINUM KNOB - eBay (item 150369866228 end time Sep-30-09 20:58:20 PDT)

 They’ll custom drill to shaft size too.


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MisterX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Try a flat washer (or two) between the switch and the the panel to keep the knob's grub screw from binding on the "thread". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Good tip, thank you MisterX.


----------



## nattonrice

You can get any knob you like and re-bore the shaft hole larger to accommodate the portion of the thread that is causing the problem.
 Or you can use washers behind the panel as spacers with the last washer having a notch in it (like on the front panel) made with a round file.

 Edit: GODAMNITT!! Beaten again lol


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nattonrice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can get any knob you like and re-bore the shaft hole larger to accommodate the portion of the thread that is causing the problem.
 Or you can use washers behind the panel as spacers with the last washer having a notch in it (like on the front panel) made with a round file.

 Edit: GODAMNITT!! Beaten again lol_

 

Luckily head fi’s not the wild west, you’d be so dead now. LOL Didn’t even think of spacers behind the panels. Thanks Tom!


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MisterX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Try a flat washer (or two) between the switch and the the panel to keep the knob's grub screw from binding on the "thread". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

good tip, thanks, i'll remember that for if I need it.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnwmclean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*It’s not so stiff when you attach a knob and have some leverage, but yeah your right it’s still quite stiff 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


* What rotary did you end up buying? I’ve just enquired about a nice goldpoint knob:

GOLDPOINT 1.4" ALUMINUM KNOB - eBay (item 150369866228 end time Sep-30-09 20:58:20 PDT)

 They’ll custom drill to shaft size too._

 

yep of course my knob isnt so stiff once its got something on there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but its still a bit dodgy IMO I would rather uyse something with a smoother action. I bought a couple for the purpose and will see which one I like best. i realize the mux rotary isnt in the signal path, but I lashed on a NOS silver switch for $30 (the german 6 position silver rotary one on that page) and also and elna (04-2261) from percy; so will use one on the mux and one to switch between XLR (no resistors) the same XLR with 1kohm load and SE RCA. also bought some TOCOS toggles (SPDT for the OTTO, DPDT for power and 4PDT in case I feel like having the the option of one set of resistors as an option in any of the outputs) I may just end up using the SPDT (ON/ON) for the OTTO wired up through one set of resistors and straight through; in turn wired to both XLR and RCA output sans rotary. will see what sounds best to me. but I like the idea of using OTTO for the resistors-> rotary for selecting outputs, as that way its easy to add more outputs if I like. the option of not using switches at all and simply not connecting more than one destination also appeals for clean signal path. still have some testing and decisions to make. i'll be ale to use quality switches in something if dont use them here anyway.

 john check out the knobs at VT4c as well, they have a good range of alloy and a couple of ebony oes. let me know if you are interested in getting something from there, because i'm thinking of getting a few other bits. would be good to have someone to share shipping. some good stuff there, you have to sort through the crap, but there is definitely some bargains there for sure.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nattonrice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can get any knob you like and re-bore the shaft hole larger to accommodate the portion of the thread that is causing the problem.
 Or you can use washers behind the panel as spacers with the last washer having a notch in it (like on the front panel) made with a round file.

 Edit: GODAMNITT!! Beaten again lol_

 

hehe


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_but its still a bit dodgy IMO I would rather uyse something with a smoother action. I bought a couple for the purpose and will see which one I like best._

 

I'd love to see what you come up with.


----------



## nattonrice

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnwmclean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Luckily head fi’s not the wild west, you’d be so dead now. LOL Didn’t even think of spacers behind the panels. Thanks Tom!_

 

Yeah it's a good trick =]
 Just incase it wasn't clear exactly what I meant with the notch thing here are the two I'm using for the 4 gang dact sa, the back most one has the notch:


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd love to see what you come up with._

 

not quite sure what to make of this; my comment is not a personal affront to anyone, they dont even make the switch. I would just prefer to use a higher quality switch with a smoother action thats all, the one I received is OK for 2 of the positions, but the others are quite stiff and clunky, I tried to help it out some with some lube, but no dice. i understand why one might include a cheaper switch in the mux kit, as the switch is not in the signal path, so I have no problem with the guys work at all, in fact I have already commented on how well put together the kits are, for them to be as easy as they are to put together with nothing but the boards and parts, is quite a feat in itself. especially for a relative noob such as myself at this type of thing.


----------



## Beefy

.....?

 I was looking for better options myself, and would like to see what he comes up with.


----------



## nattonrice

Hehe I think he read you wrong.

 Well before I came up with my hair-brained arduino/relay scheme I was seriously considering one of these:

http://www.goldpt.com/selector.html

 or

Selector Switches - Soundlabs Group

 Both are build on dact'esque mechanisms and so would have the same sexy action as the DACT SA do.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_.....?

 I was looking for better options myself, and would like to see what he comes up with._

 

LMAO I sure did read you wrong. insert sarcasm into the post and see what I mean.

 was confused, but hey glad to hear it. will definitely report back once I have everything here and have played around with different options a bit. 

 sorry for the misunderstanding


----------



## qusp

and Natonrice: the elma I ordered from Percy is very similar to your goldpoint. the goldpoint uses elma parts by the look of it; certainly has a elma deck, but the elma looks more solid and is gold over silver; but yes i'm looking for that sexy smooth action


----------



## Coreyk78

I won an ebay auction last week for a somewhat random mix Twisted Pear modules, most of them still unassembled in there baggies.

 I have:

 Buffalo 24 v1.2
 Ivy for buffalo
 volumite for buffalo
 Otto
 2 - optical modules
 metronome
 S/Pdif receiver module, older version with CS8416, not the mux
 USB receiver module
 LC1 power supply, looks like its bipolar supply, can't find info for it on the TP site

 Naturally I want to put together a Buffalo 24 using as much as what I already have as possible. I don't plan on using the metronome or the s/pdif receiver. 

 I'm thinking I want coax and 1 optical to start with, can I use the otto for switching purposes? The website description says that its for I2S switching, will it be fine for s/pdif? I'll probably step up to the MUX later for more inputs including the USB.

 If I can use the Otto that means I only need to get an LCDPS and maybe a LCBPS or placid since they seem to be superior to the power supply I have now.

 Also, I've been going back and forth on whether to use the volumite, but it would be a convenient way to take care of volume control for the balanced output. And if I understand the way it works I could just turn the volumite all the way up when feeding my sindle ended Aikido preamp and use the volume control there right?

 Thanks in advance for advice


----------



## BrianDonegan

The LC1 power supply is not from Twisted Pear, so you won't find it there.

 The OTTO will work fine for switching S/PDIF. It's just a 4-pole relay that can be triggered by a switch or digital logic, so it can be used to switch a lot of different things.

 If you use the Volumite and turn it all the way up, it will be the same as having no Volumite installed, so you should be fine there.


----------



## Coreyk78

Thanks for the reply Brian!


----------



## lionking

After reading this:
Asynchronicity: A USB Audio Primer | Computer Audiophile
 i have a to ask: Does the Buffalo with USB works in asynchronious mode?
 Thank you!


----------



## FallenAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lionking* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After reading this:
Asynchronicity: A USB Audio Primer | Computer Audiophile
 i have a to ask: Does the Buffalo with USB works in asynchronious mode?
 Thank you!_

 

Buffalo - sure, why not, you can feed it any S/PDIF or I2S signal you want.
 TwistedPearAudio USB receiver - nope.


----------



## lionking

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FallenAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Buffalo - sure, why not, you can feed it any S/PDIF or I2S signal you want.
 TwistedPearAudio USB receiver - nope._

 

Too bad!!!
 cause than i need to invest into a decent PC audio card...


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lionking* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Too bad!!!
 cause than i need to invest into a decent PC audio card..._

 

no need to spend too much on it really, just as long as it puts out bit perfect audio over spdif your in business. 

 had a setback in my build. percy is on holidays for a couple of weeks and my order will not ship until he gets back. so I will just continue the build and use the stock mux switch initially. I will do all hookup wiring required for the output switching, but temporarily wire the XLR outputs direct. you gotta love terminal blocks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 its likely that getting the casing done to a satisfactory level will take me a little while part time anyway. but still very disappointing. he has them considerably cheaper than anywhere else and I actually cant fine the switch I wanted for the output switching easily anyway. I prefer the elna to the DACT I think anyway, even though the dact is very good and well known.

 picked up some samples from Ti to have a bit of fun with; got a few PCM1794A and PCM1792A along with some very nice new opamps OPA1611, OPA1612, OPA211D (gonna be a PITA this one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 DFN-8 package) also got some TAS1020B (USB audio interface) and SRC4192 (sample rate converter) and DIR9001 (receiver) so might end up building a COD afterall. I wonder if it could be adapted for portable use?? I believe it would do fine. I realize that is a different receiver to the wolfston that is used, but I have heard good things about it, so thought I may as well grab some. thought about grabbing some of their new OPAMP headamp modules and line drivers, next time I guess.


----------



## lionking

qusp;6032755 said:
			
		

> no need to spend too much on it really, just as long as it puts out bit perfect audio over spdif your in business.
> 
> Any examples?


----------



## qusp

the USD 01 USB to spdif/i2s convertor is a good start at about $50 hard to tell without knowing what your computer is? many cards will do what you want the M-Audio transit is another good one. the USD 01 is small enough that you could even install it in the B32 and connect via its i2s output


----------



## qusp

google is your friend; its hardly a specialized thing you are after, I would take the m-audio first though. or any of the M-audio PCI cards with coax output will work well, perhaps one of those, because then you dont have to worry about the USB implementation


----------



## lionking

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_google is your friend; its hardly a specialized thing you are after, I would take the m-audio first though. or any of the M-audio PCI cards with coax output will work well, perhaps one of those, because then you dont have to worry about the USB implementation_

 

Will this do:
Echo Digital Audio Corporation
 thank you!


----------



## qusp

LOL that thing has far more functionality than you need. would be a waste of money. are you on mac?? if you are on mac, you already have optical and need nothing

 you could do it just as well with this mia thats all you need. you dont need all those inputs and outputs and pretty case. totally unnessecary and a waste of money. it will not sound any different than the Layla when connected up to the B32. the Layla is a nice interface, but all your money is being spent on multiple ADC inputs and DAC outputs that you will not ever use unless you plan on doing multitrack recording/producing hehe.

 in fact I think even for ADC you will find that it likely uses the same chip, just not as many inputs and input preamps, but that still has zero baring on the quality you will get from the B32.

 but again, get something from M-audio, they have several cards in the same pricerange as the Mia that will do 24/192 as opposed to the MIA and even Layla 24/96


----------



## qusp

here i'll do your googling for you

 M-Audio Audiophile 24/192 hehe like the name?? or the 24/96 version

 and if you wanna lash out a little, grab the firewire solowhich although limited to 24/96 (actually although it doesnt mention it, it supports PCM passthrough, so may do 24/192 as well) , is firewire, so its pretty future proof firewire is superior to USB IMO. but (I would get the 24/192 audiophile PCI card if it were me. I run a RME PCI card running AES out to the Buffalo32, but I do a bit of messing around with Logic audio and use the extra functionality.


----------



## lionking

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL that thing has far more functionality than you need. would be a waste of money. are you on mac?? if you are on mac, you already have optical and need nothing

 you could do it just as well with this mia thats all you need. you dont need all those inputs and outputs and pretty case. totally unnessecary and a waste of money. it will not sound any different than the Layla when connected up to the B32. the Layla is a nice interface, but all your money is being spent on multiple ADC inputs and DAC outputs that you will not ever use unless you plan on doing multitrack recording/producing hehe.

 in fact I think even for ADC you will find that it likely uses the same chip, just not as many inputs and input preamps, but that still has zero baring on the quality you will get from the B32.

 but again, get something from M-audio, they have several cards in the same pricerange as the Mia that will do 24/192 as opposed to the MIA and even Layla 24/96_

 

Yeah i realize it is an over overkill 
 But since its for sale on some local second hand forum, and the price is very tempting, no to mention it has a "superb headphone output" according to their website, this could be a deal breaker, so if i could get it for the price of MAudio i will probably go for it...


----------



## lionking

Too bad Behringer's F-CONTROL AUDIO FCA202 doesnt have SPDIF


----------



## qusp

the 'superb headphone output' is irrelevent; you are building a dac that will crap on the performance of the Layla. I know these type of interfaces and when they say 'superb headphone output' they usually dont know what they are talking about.


----------



## DoYouRight

there are many usb spdif devices that do 24/192 and can be mounted into a chassis. Musiland is one of the better atm, though Mac and Linux drivers not ready

 There is a NEW converter for a little more than musiland that is coming out that will have linux and mac and win drivers from launch in a month. cant wait!


----------



## lionking

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_there are many usb spdif devices that do 24/192 and can be mounted into a chassis. Musiland is one of the better atm, though Mac and Linux drivers not ready

 There is a NEW converter for a little more than musiland that is coming out that will have linux and mac and win drivers from launch in a month. cant wait!_

 

Out of curiosity, what is coming? is there any online info to peek at?


----------



## manaox2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lionking* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Out of curiosity, what is coming? is there any online info to peek at?_

 

I think its a converter made by audio-gd. Its already being posted around head-fi, see if you can find some more info about.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *manaox2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think its a converter made by audio-gd. Its already being posted around head-fi, see if you can find some more info about._

 

m2tech hiface.


----------



## manaox2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_m2tech hiface._

 

Nice, thanks!


----------



## DoYouRight

yea that one. the audio-gd is a waste of money. it is usually period. unless you have one of their dacs.


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nattonrice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hehe I think he read you wrong.

 Well before I came up with my hair-brained arduino/relay scheme I was seriously considering one of these:

http://www.goldpt.com/selector.html

 or

Selector Switches - Soundlabs Group

 Both are build on dact'esque mechanisms and so would have the same sexy action as the DACT SA do._

 

I re-accessed the supplied switch, I’ve just ordered the DACT CT3 with matching knob, as qusp points out the supplied switches look and feel is pretty much bottom of the barrel. Thanks for the links I got mine from thlaudio, came in cheaper than soundlabs.


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnwmclean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I re-accessed the supplied switch, I’ve just ordered the DACT CT3 with matching knob, as qusp points out the supplied switches look and feel is pretty much bottom of the barrel. Thanks for the links I got mine from thlaudio, came in cheaper than soundlabs._

 

...... yeah, there's no way in hell I'm paying that just for better switch feel


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...... yeah, there's no way in hell I'm paying that just for better switch feel 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I realise the overkill meter has blown a gasket, but dang Beefy the dacts are so nice not just for look and feel either - the mechanism drips quality.
 Gotta let those moth balls out sometime mate


----------



## BrianDonegan

These are a softer feel than the ones in the kit, and are not ridiculously expensive:

SR2617F-0104-18F5B-D1-N Alpha (Taiwan) Rotary Switches

SR10010F-0204-20F0B-C7-N Alpha (Taiwan) Rotary Switches


----------



## ktm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Coreyk78* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I won an ebay auction last week for a somewhat random mix Twisted Pear modules, most of them still unassembled in there baggies.

 I have:

 Buffalo 24 v1.2
 Ivy for buffalo
 volumite for buffalo
 Otto
 2 - optical modules
 metronome
 S/Pdif receiver module, older version with CS8416, not the mux
 USB receiver module
 LC1 power supply, looks like its bipolar supply, can't find info for it on the TP site

 Naturally I want to put together a Buffalo 24 using as much as what I already have as possible. I don't plan on using the metronome or the s/pdif receiver. 

 I'm thinking I want coax and 1 optical to start with, can I use the otto for switching purposes? The website description says that its for I2S switching, will it be fine for s/pdif? I'll probably step up to the MUX later for more inputs including the USB.

 If I can use the Otto that means I only need to get an LCDPS and maybe a LCBPS or placid since they seem to be superior to the power supply I have now.

 Also, I've been going back and forth on whether to use the volumite, but it would be a convenient way to take care of volume control for the balanced output. And if I understand the way it works I could just turn the volumite all the way up when feeding my sindle ended Aikido preamp and use the volume control there right?

 Thanks in advance for advice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well. now I know who was bidding against!


----------



## askforwhy

Hello, I've done some research on the Buffalo32s, but I still want to make sure.

 I see those Buffalo32s on the TPA page says: "Assembled and Tested", so I guess I can just purchase the Buffalo32s DAC module and hook it up to my PSUs to make a functional DAC? Surely with case and connectors.
 Thanks.


----------



## FallenAngel

With minimal setup, yes, that's correct. Of course there are a lot of "kits" on the TPA site, so read what's a kit and what's completed. I'm assuming this is one of your first projects - you'll soon realize casework takes more time than any board building.


----------



## tosehee

I am fairly intrigued by this also, and also wanted to compare with my current DAC. If done right, this costs 2/3 of the Ref1 that I currently have. If the performance is similar, I might dump Ref1 and use the differences in cost for something else.


----------



## DoYouRight

go go conformists! buffalo and beta over ref1 and phoenix!


----------



## askforwhy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FallenAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With minimal setup, yes, that's correct. Of course there are a lot of "kits" on the TPA site, so read what's a kit and what's completed. I'm assuming this is one of your first projects - you'll soon realize casework takes more time than any board building. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Nope, Beta22 is my first project
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, which started 5 months earlier than this(if I am going to build one).
 I just want to make sure coz my English is so bad.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Trust me, I fully realized the importance of casework. I already underestimated once.


----------



## manaox2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_go go conformists! buffalo and beta over ref1 and phoenix!_

 

If conforming means taking the buffalo and beta over those other two, I don't want to be a rebel.


----------



## johnwmclean

Please Delete! I’m a dunce.


----------



## DoYouRight

meant a different word lol I was tired. just cool to see them after all going this way.


----------



## qusp

the 2 switches i'm waiting for are 39 (MUX) and 69USD (output switching) plus whatever knob you add to that. thanks for the options brian, but gotta go with something that sits well with the rest of my build and also do not want any PCB mounting (although i'm sure if I searched there would be a chassis mount version)


----------



## MrMajestic2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the 2 switches i'm waiting for are 39 (MUX) and 69USD (output switching) plus whatever knob you add to that. thanks for the options brian, but gotta go with something that sits well with the rest of my build and also do not want any PCB mounting (although i'm sure if I searched there would be a chassis mount version)_

 

Might I ask what switches you ordered?


----------



## qusp

its on the last page, I actually ordered 3, but to save on shipping you could get the 2 that I will probably use anyway; both elma rotaries from percyaudio.com, he wont be back from holiday till early next week. thgere is no cart, you must email him with the order including part number, this should do you. looks like they are slightly cheaoer than I remembered too, guess that comes from a lesson I learned knowing me and that is to round things up to make a vain attempt at keeping my build prices down even just a little bit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just couldnt use the hookup and connectors I am using and then use a cheap switch.but already blew a hole in my wallet, so took the middle road. next up is a tube buffer/pre or M^3 looking out for your restarted GB thread John 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 signal output

 1 x *(04-2261) 6 position, useful as a stereo selector switch for those who wish to switch both hots and grounds or for use in balancedequipmentas a stereoselector switchinginverting and non inverting signals, non-shorting, two pole per deck, two deck… $65.00

 MUX

 1 x *(04-1261) 6 position, useful as a stereo selector switch, non-shorting, two pole per deck, single deck… $38.50 (most popular selector switch)


----------



## johnwmclean

Can someone check this diagram, I’m about to wire up my DACT CT3 switch and needed confirmation that I’m going about it the right way. Really appreciate any help with this. Thanks John. 


Imageshack - switchwiringfirstdraft


----------



## johnwmclean

Bump, for someone to crosscheck this.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnwmclean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can someone check this diagram, I’m about to wire up my DACT CT3 switch and needed confirmation that I’m going about it the right way. Really appreciate any help with this. Thanks John. 


Imageshack - switchwiringfirstdraft_


----------



## MrMajestic2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnwmclean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Bump, for someone to crosscheck this._

 

Looks ok to me.


----------



## qusp

seems all good to me mate


----------



## wink

If it's a binary output you want it's correct. 00, 01, 10, 11. for positions 2, 3, 4, & 5.


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrMajestic2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looks ok to me._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_seems all good to me mate_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wink* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If it's a binary output you want it's correct. 00, 01, 10, 11. for positions 2, 3, 4, & 5._

 

Thanks guys, upon a closer inspection of the switch the metal plate reads ELMA, although the box and a dodgy stuck on sticker (which fell off) state it’s a DACT. Also the DACT knob does not fit the switches shaft, I’m pissed to say the least. It’s clearly foul play, from a repatriable company that many of us use. I’ve given them a chance to explain and quickly replace, if these requirements are not met, you’ll see a post in full detail.


----------



## nattonrice

Hey John,

 Do you mean that the shaft is too long?
 I had the same problem with the knob I choose for my B22.
 I simply fitted the DACT and then dremeled off a length of the shaft~
 Ninja dremel powers ftw!


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nattonrice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey John,

 Do you mean that the shaft is too long?
 I had the same problem with the knob I choose for my B22.
 I simply fitted the DACT and then dremeled off a length of the shaft~
 Ninja dremel powers ftw! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hey Tom, the problem is the Dact CT3 I ordered is actually an ELMA (disguised in a Dact box with fake dact stickers). The shaft diameter (not length) is the problem as the switch is clearly not Dact but the knob is.


----------



## Beefy

DACT switches _are_ Elma, aren't they?

 And Goldpoint as well: http://www.goldpt.com/info.html

 "Goldpoint stepped attenuators employ ELMA, 24-position, precision switch components. They have smooth turning torque, great for audio applications."


----------



## nattonrice

Oh ****!~

 That's strange because the only thing DACT does is make the little pcb and assemble.
 The switching hardware was identical I thought.
 Not to jump the gun but... could it be a fake/copy?
 What a pain in the but 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I finished my buf32 btw! The arduino thing seems to have worked well ^^


----------



## wink

I would check the knob for any burring, or use a drill to countersink/bevel the entry, and see if that fixes it.
 You could try putting a drill down the knob to find the hole diameter and check this against the shaft diameter.
 We don't all have inside and outside vernier calipers. (I certainly don't).

 Oh....! the joys of DIY audio......


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_DACT switches are Elma, aren't they?

 And Goldpoint as well: Detailed Information

 "Goldpoint stepped attenuators employ ELMA, 24-position, precision switch components. They have smooth turning torque, great for audio applications."_

 

I can’t see anything in DACT literature to say they employ ELMA parts.

ELMA 24 Pole Switch - Soundlabs Group

DACT 5x4 Selector Switch - Soundlabs Group

 They look the same.

 Also have a look at the DACT sticker from the link and compare it with the one I got, surely a company like DACT is not going to sticky tape a paper label to their products.

 Also the shaft does is not the right diameter for the DACT knob.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nattonrice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh ****!~

 That's strange because the only thing DACT does is make the little pcb and assemble.
 The switching hardware was identical I thought.
 Not to jump the gun but... could it be a fake/copy?
 What a pain in the but 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I finished my buf32 btw! The arduino thing seems to have worked well ^^_

 

Not a fake, but an ELMA not a DACT.


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnwmclean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can’t see anything in DACT literature to say they employ ELMA parts._

 

Alright, instead of asking the question, I will tell you. DACT use Elma switches


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Alright, instead of asking the question, I will tell you. DACT use Elma switches 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ok thanks, I need to be told 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I lightly sanded the DACT knobs hole with a screw driver and got it to fit. I think I’ll be sending an apology email back to THL Audio


----------



## wink

Was that a right-handed or left-handed screwdriver?
 Good to see natural ingenuity at work.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnwmclean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks guys, upon a closer inspection of the switch the metal plate reads ELMA, although the box and a dodgy stuck on sticker (which fell off) state it’s a DACT. Also the DACT knob does not fit the switches shaft, I’m pissed to say the least. It’s clearly foul play, from a repatriable company that many of us use. I’ve given them a chance to explain and quickly replace, if these requirements are not met, you’ll see a post in full detail._

 

the packaging thing is odd, so you bought this from soundlabs or THL?? the DACT switches do indeed use elma parts, another reason to just buy elma, but the shaft size thing is a little strange, perhaps the knob is a fake 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nattonrice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey John,

 Do you mean that the shaft is too long?
 I had the same problem with the knob I choose for my B22.
*I simply fitted the DACT and then dremeled off a length of the shaft~
 Ninja dremel powers ftw!*



_

 

indeedy do, I love my dremel, I really would hate to be without it, although I think my neighbors might be safely be able to 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I like to work late 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnwmclean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Tom, the problem is the Dact CT3 I ordered is actually an ELMA (disguised in a Dact box with fake dact stickers). The shaft diameter (not length) is the problem as the switch is clearly not Dact but the knob is._

 

are you sure its not the other way around 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I would think a knob would be easier to fake than a quality rotary and if they wanted to fake it, I think they might have done a better job. perhaps they just didnt have the right packaging, because as discussed the DACT is in fact made by elma, but they just charge nearly twice the price 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_DACT switches are Elma, aren't they?

 And Goldpoint as well: http://www.goldpt.com/info.html

 "Goldpoint stepped attenuators employ ELMA, 24-position, precision switch components. They have smooth turning torque, great for audio applications."_

 

indeed they are, mine just shipped (just the selector switch), so i'm nearing the point where I actually case this thing up. my second elma I have to wait for as percy hasnt returned from break yet, perhaps i'll just get the 4 position 2 deck from THL, what were the prices and shipping like there John?? they have great stuff there and I will probably get a bit of stuff from there, but without any prices on the site its a bit annoying. nice cases there too. actually the most comprehensive listing of DIY supplies I think i've seen; most places will have a few good things, but have a couple of gaps in the catalogue, so yo are forced to either compromise or get things from multiple places and pay shipping accordingly. from there you can get most anything you need to case something up

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nattonrice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh ****!~

 That's strange because the only thing DACT does is make the little pcb and assemble.
 The switching hardware was identical I thought.
 Not to jump the gun but... could it be a fake/copy?
 What a pain in the but 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*I finished my buf32 btw! The arduino thing seems to have worked well ^^*_

 

nice!! looking forward top the pics, have you considered the LCDaunio (dont know if that acronym is right or not ;P) wish I had the knowhow or time to work out an interface/switching mechanism like that. I will probably do it eventually, but not at the moment. I ended up going for a different enclosure temporarily, as costs for a fully custom mixed media case are extreme, I will chip away at all but the front and back panels myself until im happy. for the moment it is going in a larger rack type case with wooden front and back panel; will get it all wired up and in my 'final' configuration before I do the final case, as I can see that I will still have some fiddling to do before i'm done with this project. I am considering getting the placid PSUs for analogue section and battery power supply for the DAC. or going SLA for the entire rig.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Alright, instead of asking the question, I will tell you. DACT use Elma switches 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 






  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnwmclean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok thanks, I need to be told 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I lightly sanded the DACT knobs hole with a screw driver and got it to fit. I think I’ll be sending an apology email back to THL Audio 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

huh? I thought you got it from soundlabs? 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wink* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Was that a right-handed or left-handed screwdriver?
 Good to see natural ingenuity at work._

 

LMAO


----------



## nattonrice

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_nice!! looking forward top the pics, have you considered the LCDaunio_

 

Hehe thanks~ I posted pics in the DIY pics thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wrote a small code for my arduino switch controller thing.
 Very easy to learn and implement so I highly recommend it!
 I planned all of this a number of months ago and unfortunately the LCDuino was not yet available so I had to rough it lol.


----------



## MrMajestic2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnwmclean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok thanks, I need to be told 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I lightly sanded the DACT knobs hole with a screw driver and got it to fit. I think I’ll be sending an apology email back to THL Audio 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

How much did you pay for the DACT at THLAudio?


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrMajestic2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How much did you pay for the DACT at THLAudio?_

 

US$108


----------



## qusp

wow, I paid 39 for the elma (MUX), and dont plan to pay any more than $70 for the output switching. 

 @ Natonrice: ok I think you have convinced me, for the final case (or my next build) I will definitely look into the LCDuino to control the mux, status of various parameters and output switching. I really like the idea of it and the possibility of being able to access the filters via LCD input/display/feedback. plus I love the look of 'tech' looking displays juxtaposed with wood.


----------



## MrMajestic2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnwmclean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_US$108_

 

Ay caramba, kind of steep. I'll stick to the Goldpoint version I think.


----------



## nattonrice

Yeah qusp it is pretty fun stuff to mess around with =]
 My implementation is very crude. The one that Ti and LW have going is going to be an awesome unit.


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrMajestic2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ay caramba, kind of steep. I'll stick to the Goldpoint version I think._

 

Totally agree, way to much to spend on a simple mechanical switch. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Really shot my self on the foot with that purchase.


----------



## nattonrice

LOL I think the foot shooting started when we all bought something other than ibuds =]

 How goes the build btw? What have you got left to do?


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nattonrice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL I think the foot shooting started when we all bought something other than ibuds =]

 How goes the build btw? What have you got left to do?_

 

Well I’ve put the last hex screw in the base, and installed the switch today. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I’m done! Where do I go from here now? Hows the your B24 comin’ along? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW you gotta post some impressions, is the Beta22 nice and quite etc...


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnwmclean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Totally agree, way to much to spend on a simple mechanical switch. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Really shot my self on the foot with that purchase._

 

hey man, seriously dont sweat it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I mean I may have saved some dollars on the switches...but....... well you know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and hopefully in the next week or so you'll see, wont post final pics for a bit due to the availability of the right elma output switch at a reasonable price. comeon percy, why do people need holidays anyway 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nattonrice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*LOL I think the foot shooting started when we all bought something other than ibuds =]*

 How goes the build btw? What have you got left to do?_

 

lol, yeah something like that.when I first came here not that long ago really, I was balking at spending $150USD on SF5 pros and I couldnt wait to throw 1100 at JH for the JH13 not much more than a year later 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. funny thing is I think the majority of people get into DIY to save money, instead many generally end up being far more prolific than buying commercial gear.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnwmclean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I’ve put the last hex screw in the base, and installed the switch today. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I’m done! Where do I go from here now? Hows the your B24 comin’ along? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW you gotta post some impressions, is the Beta22 nice and quite etc..._

 

nice one man!! looking forward to having a 3 way buffalo32 showdown at the next meet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 hey whats the go in this thread lately?? aussies galore. 

 my case will be here on monday or tuesday, all switches and knobs bar the output elma around wednesday. should get the wooden front and back panel sometime late this week, but will knock up a build with the alloy front panel that comes with the case while I wait. so since i'll have the AES and BNC in use straight up before the elma gets here, i'll post some meaningful impressions next weekend I reckon, maybe early next. 

 Aussie DIY FTW!!!


----------



## Hottuna_

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_nice one man!! looking forward to having a 3 way buffalo32 showdown at the next meet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 hey whats the go in this thread lately?? aussies galore. 

 Aussie DIY FTW!!!_

 

Well, I'd thought I'd chime in.
 My B32 is almost there. Fully functioning, case is 99% done. The casework is a little bit rough around the edges due to my lack of skill with power tools but its certainly functional. Aesthetics wasn't really high on my priority list.

 Some wiring left to neaten up. Wondering if i should connect the ground pin of the xlr out to chassis ground or signal ground. Any thoughts? I am thinking signal ground....

 Also pondering a different selector since the one that came with the spdif mux doesn't quite work out as john has pointed out.

 With the Aussie dollar up there, I am already thinking of my next project. A toss up between a balanced b22 or aikido for a little taste of tubes.


----------



## johnwmclean

Input and outputs should be isolated from the chassis, the switch that came with the MUX is fine, sure it’s a little stiff - but for functionality purposes Hottuna, I’d stick with it - save some money for a nice attenuator for the upcoming the Beta22 where it counts, in the signal path.


----------



## BrianDonegan

Hi guys. What's the main problem with the switch in the kit? Looks, feel, what else? If it is unsuitable, I would like to improve it.


----------



## MrMajestic2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys. What's the main problem with the switch in the kit? Looks, feel, what else? If it is unsuitable, I would like to improve it._

 

My problem with it is that its does not have a 6mm, but 1/4" shaft. Besides that it does its job well enough.


----------



## qusp

well Brian, to be honest mate, theres not much right about it. it works (just) but thats about it. my main problem is definitely feel though. on mine its very stiff and when it does move its really clunky. 1-2 positions are kinda OK, but then past there it pretty much seizes and I had to put some silicone grease on there to even move it further; its also the wrong size really. 6mm is the most common for nice knobs, of course thats pretty easily fixed. nice job for being ready to address (or at least talk about) the issue mate, its one thing to keep the price of parts down for people, thats great, but if a part is often bought twice and the original not used, it stops being economical. of course if it were in the signal path I would have more issues, but as its not. All that is really needed to improve it to the point I would use it, would be for it to be 6mm, have a nice smooth action and be reliable; contact material, dielectric and resistance isnt an issue with this one. this is a top quality product you have here Brian and people are building these dacs not only for fun, but in place of quite big dollar DACs that usually have nice tactile switches, its part of the pride of ownership and the current one just doesnt gel with that idea IMO

 john lol, so you made a boo boo on your switch and blew heaps of dollars; dont worry about it, you do not have to spend that much to get one that is leagues ahead of the stock version. my case arrived today; as did my MUX switch from PCX and its really great, $38 and even that is over the top, i'm sure one of similar quality could be found for ~$10-15. (or considerably less in bulk) I myself would not have minded paying a little more for the kit if a nicer switch were included, because the stock one is going in the trash, so it didnt save me anything.


----------



## qusp

either that or [dons flame suit] dont include one at all and instead have a recommended parts list and knock whatever it costs off the price. even stock it separately?? I mean people already have to buy connectors etc. because the requirement for functionality, number and quality is different for everyone. the switch falls in the same category IMO. for many builds this switch and the on/off switch are the only tactile contact you have with the object, so I want mine to be suitable for such a great sounding piece of kit. everyone has different requirements and priorities here; of course the sound is what matters, that is not in question, but the object itself and my interface with it are, while not equally important, not insignificant either.

 I hope that makes sense Brian and you do not take me the wrong way


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


 on mine its very stiff and when it does move its really clunky. 1-2 positions are kinda OK, but then past there it pretty much seizes and I had to put some silicone grease on there to even move it further; 
 

I have not experienced this. I usually use a knob that's about 25mm or greater in diameter though.

  Quote:


 its also the wrong size really. 6mm is the most common for nice knobs, 
 

Ok. 1/4" is most common in the US. I will see what we can do.


----------



## qusp

i'm using a 25mm anote knob and while it moved between 1-2, it really didnt want to go further without having to push hard'ish and clunky and it got worse after a few turns, not better. sure 1/4" is the most common for US, but IMO (subjective opinion alert) most of the popular quality attenuators and therefor knobs are 6mm standard.


----------



## nattonrice

It should be said that I have a stock selector switch as included in the MUX.
 I didn't use a rotary selector in my build.
 If any aussie DIY'er wants it they can have it for free.


----------



## MrMajestic2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nattonrice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It should be said that I have a stock selector switch as included in the MUX.
 I didn't use a rotary selector in my build.
 If any aussie DIY'er wants it they can have it for free._

 

I have a few as well is someone wants them.


----------



## qusp

so keen on LCDuino


----------



## IPodPJ

Can anyone here provide some comparisons between a well-built Buffalo32 (8 stacked dual differential Sabre DACs, voltage) and the Audio-gd Reference One (8 stacked dual differential PCM1704UK DACs, current)? I'd also like to know about what some builders have done with the analog output stages of their Buffalo32.

 Reason I ask is because I'm contemplating having a Buffalo32 built to go with my Beta22 build. The Ref1 is a tough DAC to beat though (but frankly, I'm tired of the heat given off by my Audio-gd gear).

 Thanks in advance.


----------



## qusp

AFAIK whether the buffalo32 outputs in current or voltage mode depends on the impedance the output sees. it is neither current or voltage out specifically. of course i'm no expert here, if someone can correct me cool, but thats the way I understand it. sorry but I cant provide any meaningful comparisons for you though. never heard the REF1


----------



## FallenAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_AFAIK whether the buffalo32 outputs in current or voltage mode depends on the impedance the output sees. it is neither current or voltage out specifically._

 

Yep


----------



## qusp

^^ cool, thought so, and regard to the analogue output stage of the sabre 32, all answers I got on the subject pointed to the output of the sabre dac needing very little to no filtering as far as capacitance in output coupling is concerned, so a complicated I/V stage when driving an amplifier is really a waste; I suppose if you really wanted (and this is something I am considering later) you could get yourself some ludahl (or crazy ass audio consulting silver rocks if you are made of money 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) audio transformers for output, tapped from before the I/V resistors, closer to the dac (havent investigated that far as yet). I even have some mundorf and duelund caps that I had bought for output coupling, but ended up leaving them out because of this. I am still interested to try nice trannies on the output at some stage though. I still need to give it a real listen TBH as I only fired it up to test and now gotta case it all up, so will think on it more if i feel it lacking or want to tune it more to my taste.


----------



## Hottuna_

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys. What's the main problem with the switch in the kit? Looks, feel, what else? If it is unsuitable, I would like to improve it._

 

Well besides the 1/4" shaft (I drilled the knob i had for it to fit), my gripe with the supplied switch was the grub screw of my knob was binding to the switch thread instead of the shaft. 
 My knob is currently a fair bit off my front panel to bind to the switch shaft.
 However i will probably follow MisterX's suggestion and put washers between the switch and the panel on the inside of my front panel.

 nattonrice's build has got me thinking about implementing a microcontroller + button based switch. I have an ATmega48 board with a parallel port programmer cable sitting around here somewhere and also various functions already written including a pretty robust debouncing one and eeprom read/write. Shouldn't take long to whip up something in WinAVR. My C is pretty rusty though.


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


 the sabre dac needing very little to no filtering 
 

Not correct. however, transformers have a natural frequency roll-off that lessens the need for filtering.


----------



## qusp

sorry I should have specified, I meant DC filtering (as in caps) and in this context of course it could mean something entirely different


----------



## IPodPJ

Well I really like the natural tone of the Reference One. It has a 0.5dB drop at 12kHz and a 1.5dB drop at 20kHz, like many high-end DACs do. Other than that it's perfectly flat. What would be the best way to accomplish this?


----------



## qusp

well i'll leave that for others with more listening time to chime in, as I really havent done enough to even form an opinion, let alone give advise on what could be improved on in the output stage 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 and i'm really no expert in this area anyway, I just know what i like. man I wish I had more time for this hobby, i always do this, I mean I love my work, but finding time to do my own thing is becoming more and more difficult these days 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I know woe is me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 lets all hear an oooohhh for the cable guy......


----------



## wink

OOOOoooooo for the cable guy....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## manaox2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *IPodPJ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I really like the natural tone of the Reference One. It has a 0.5dB drop at 12kHz and a 1.5dB drop at 20kHz, like many high-end DACs do. Other than that it's perfectly flat. What would be the best way to accomplish this?_

 

Have you listened to the Buffalo yet?


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wink* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OOOOoooooo for the cable guy....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!_

 

hehe thanks wink 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I didnt actually expect someone to give me one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 got some interesting stuff on the way from texas components. I was planning on using nude S102 (TX2352) for load setting resistors and will still install them initially, but while going over my notes a couple nights ago I came across something that funnily enough was prompted by Natonrice, who mentioned the Z201 Z foil resistors also by texas components. I remembered there were some things in the works over there, so when contacting my guy there to make an order for the TX2352's I asked about the new TX2575 'naked' Z foil resistors, long story short I have some on the way, these things look to be as close to 'a good piece of wire' as possible, so ordered some for impedance adapters and also 4 680R 0.005% for the B32, for driving headphones directly; this number should keep the load low enough to remain in current mode (<780 ohms) 680 plus the output impedance of the B32 itself (~21ohms), contact resistance of the terminals, the OTTO, then switch and XLR connector and of course the headphones themselves, <30 for JH13 and 300 for the senns. resistance should still come under for the JH13, correct?? i'll probably install some others for the senns or live with voltage drive for them. i'm sure it'll still sound fantastic either way whether current or voltage output, but current being preferred. 

 am I missing something?? does this sound like a plan, because these are made to order and I havent paid and finalized the order yet for those 4, so if you guys think I should lower it a tad, please let me know. the headphone cable will present very very little being silver (in the case of JH13 anyway) and also silver the whole way from dac output to the XLRs (except the otto and the R's themselves)

 any advice here would be much appreciated. 

 also, anyone built up the placid PSU/shunt regs yet?? if so, were the results superior??


----------



## DoYouRight

So your gonna run your buffalo straight to phones? I thought about doing that but decided against it.


----------



## BrianDonegan

The OPA1632 opamps can deliver 150mA and will easily power any headphones.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The OPA1632 opamps can deliver 150mA and will easily power any headphones._

 

Thanks for the reply Brian; yes I realize that, but with the information posted above, do you think I will stay in the current domain or is there some impedance/resistance I am missing??


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So your gonna run your buffalo straight to phones? I thought about doing that but decided against it._

 

sorry for the double post guys; yes i'm driving direct..... as an option; my Buffalo32 is loaded with options for input and output. I will also be driving my studio monitors (active balanced) and SE output to my Lisa III/LLP and a balanced amp sometime in the near future when I get around to deciding on one and building it. also when the wallet recovers a bit. 
 I have installed the volumite, as it can be removed from the equation by turning it all the way up, but allows me to driove balanced direct until I get around to the amp.


----------



## nattonrice

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will also be driving my studio monitors (active balanced)_

 

Dude that sounds like an awesome desktop setup your building =]


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nattonrice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dude that sounds like an awesome desktop setup your building =]_

 

thats the plan 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW there is a new contender for the amp that I may be able to afford sooner rather than later. you guys seen the M4 thread. its not an official AMB build, but simply a modified M^3 PCB with fully differential input and output. the projected price is sounding great too. should be good to hold me over until I build something truly substantial like a beta22 or OTG tupe (less likely) amp. looks to be a nice design that will pair well with the buffalo32 on a budget


----------



## yossi126

I'm pretty overwhelmed with this thread and I just want to know one thing.
 What is the difference between the Buffalo24 to 32's.
 Thanks.


----------



## qusp

plenty, but I guess most importantly, the Buffalo32 has an onboard I/V stage and runs from the newer, more powerful and higher resolution 32 bit ESS9018, as opposed to the 24 bit ESS9008. and thats just to start


----------



## chipzahoy

nt.


----------



## FallenAngel

I wouldn't go too far with the "32s is significantly better than the 24". I have both and think both are very good DACs, neither is a slouch and I while the 32s may be better, I don't notice it all that much. Maybe should bring the 24 from work for a good listening session, the comments are from memory.


----------



## chipzahoy

nt.


----------



## IPodPJ

If I buy two Buffalo32 boards, will any settings need to be done to the dip switches to run them in dual mono? I'm already having custom trafos made for the Beta22 and will probably do the same for the DAC.


----------



## BrianDonegan

You cannot run them in Dual-Mono.


----------



## qusp

why not just buy the dual mono board??


----------



## IPodPJ

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_why not just buy the dual mono board??_

 

And where is that?


----------



## Beefy

I think he means the dual mono power supply kit.


----------



## IPodPJ

Oh... Yeah that's not what I was referring to. I meant running the DAC as dual mono. I wonder if twisted pear could make something like that.


----------



## manaox2

I believe it runs internally as four dacs per channel (quad balanced).


----------



## Beefy

Yep. The chip itself contains 8 separate DACs running 4 per channel. I can see no advantage whatsoever in running more than that.


----------



## IPodPJ

There are advantages. Take a look at the spec sheet. The DNR running 8 channel is 129dB. The DNR running the chip in mono is 135dB.

http://www.esstech.com/products/digi...F%20080221.pdf


----------



## Beefy

Take a look at the spec sheet of your ears. At 129dB, you're deaf.


----------



## IPodPJ

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Take a look at the spec sheet of your ears. At 129dB, you're deaf._

 

Well, yes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 But having a wider dynamic range will lower the noise floor. The chips could perform better if the channels are completely separated. What is supposed to happen in theory doesn't always translate to audio gear. I am going to call ESS this week and find out their thoughts.


----------



## Nebby

I'm pretty sure the same question was brought up in the diyaudio forum thread and the same answer was given. Can't hurt to ask again though.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think he means the dual mono power supply kit._

 

indeed I do, the dual mono buffalo dac and PSU package

 IPODPJ: I totally see you being ignored or sent a prepackaged reply by ESS, good luck with that.


----------



## nattonrice

Hello,

 Thank you for your interest in ESS products.
 The ESS Sabre 32-bit DAC will sound fantastic in any configuration.

 Kind Regards
 ESS Sales Team.


 -------


 If you get anything better than that I'll be surprised.


----------



## IPodPJ

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nattonrice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello,

 Thank you for your interest in ESS products.
 The ESS Sabre 32-bit DAC will sound fantastic in any configuration.

 Kind Regards
 ESS Sales Team.


 -------


 If you get anything better than that I'll be surprised._

 

I am going to call them, not send an e-mail. So I'll hope for the best.


----------



## manaox2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *IPodPJ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am going to call them, not send an e-mail. So I'll hope for the best._

 

Are you going to ask their opinion on how it sounds? Or how to design your own DAC using the Buffalo so that you can run dual mono? I will place my bet that the specs sheet has told you all anyone you get on the phone will be able to help you with. You should ask for someone whom you can acquire the chips from while your at it so that you can get right on that.


----------



## IPodPJ

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *manaox2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you going to ask their opinion on how it sounds? Or how to design your own DAC using the Buffalo so that you can run dual mono? I will place my bet that the specs sheet has told you all anyone you get on the phone will be able to help you with. You should ask for someone whom you can acquire the chips from while your at it so that you can get right on that._

 

I'm only going to ask if there are benefits using the chips in a dual mono configuration vs. single chip as well as prices for 2 chips. I'm not going to ask them about the Buffalo obviously since they don't make it, nor would I ask them for a course on DAC design.


----------



## Beefy

And what is that going to achieve? Nobody has yet designed a two-chip dual mono Sabre32, so even if you decide you want one, you can't have one


----------



## zoiberg

Anybody tried this mod posted by Russ yet? Buffalo Tweaking - Page 18 - diyAudio


----------



## IPodPJ

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And what is that going to achieve? Nobody has yet designed a two-chip dual mono Sabre32, so even if you decide you want one, you can't have one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

There are other people who can design DACs.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And what is that going to achieve? Nobody has yet designed a two-chip dual mono Sabre32, so even if you decide you want one, you can't have one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

not quite correct, there is a new option actually based here in OZ, but thats too OT I wont mention it here. hopefully TP release this tweakers build soon or they might find themselves behind with things that are going on with sabre chips elsewhere on smaller scale. I know I would have thought twice had I been buying now. 

 now i'm not saying the TP guys arent doing a great job or that the buffalo32 kits and resulting dacs arent great products, because they most certainly are, but the current non-tweakers build is certainly not ideal for anyone wishing to do different I/V and PSU stages. and yes there is a true dual mono dual dac version with simple pads for everything

 anyway, for the point of this post 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just bought 2 x placid BP for the I/V stages, anyone running them yet?? just wondering what sort of heat they give off?? when I planned and bought my case I wasnt thinking of the placid and therefore with the small amount of heat given off, I havent planned for venting the top panel. There is plenty of room for ventilation and I could send the top in with my front panel this week when I get that done, but would rather avoid the ex[pense if its not needed. I gather the shunts will run considerably hotter than the standard power supplies, but how much hotter. problem is the meter I have, has a bug in the software that means the temperature probes are inaccurate and not worth using. I bought the meter with this knowledge and got a good price because of it; at the time it wasnt a feature that meant a great deal to me. am I worrying about nothing?? or should I really pony-up for venting of the top to be safe??


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_not quite correct, there is a new option actually based here in OZ, but thats too OT I wont mention it here. hopefully TP release this tweakers build soon or they might find themselves behind with things that are going on with sabre chips elsewhere on smaller scale. I know I would have thought twice had I been buying now. 

 now i'm not saying the TP guys arent doing a great job or that the buffalo32 kits and resulting dacs arent great products, because they most certainly are, but the current non-tweakers build is certainly not ideal for anyone wishing to do different I/V and PSU stages. and yes there is a true dual mono dual dac version with simple pads for everything_

 

I think that you _seriously_ over-estimate the quantity of the lunatic fringe for products like this.


----------



## qusp

maybe so, i'm not saying it will displace what is an established and well supported quality product, just saying if they did ever plan to do the tweakers build (and I wouldnt say the amount of interest has been insignificant would you??) then they may well have missed the boat.


----------



## qusp

who are you calling a lunatic


----------



## nattonrice

The shunts will run hotter.
 One option that avoids venting the top more than it already is would be to fix hot devices to the bottom panel and the on the other side affix a large flat heatsink from jaycar.
 Won't see it and you might just get away with it


----------



## qusp

yeah the problem with the top panel at the moment is the vents are all towards the rear and only a fairly thin strip of them and I have the LCDPS at the back, the placids will be more towards the front. nice idea on the heatsink underneath. should work with the cones i'm using, since i'm only using 3 and will only have one at the front. perhapos I could use one of the spare LCBPS to drive a fan ;D


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yeah the problem with the top panel at the moment is the vents are all towards the rear and only a fairly thin strip of them and I have the LCDPS at the back, the placids will be more towards the front. nice idea on the heatsink underneath. should work with the cones i'm using, since i'm only using 3 and will only have one at the front. perhapos I could use one of the spare LCBPS to drive a fan ;D_

 

Do you want to sell the other LCBPS?


----------



## Jean-Charles

Hi guys. Sorry to interrupt this nice discussion, but I am looking for an information. I saw somewhere, may be on this thread, someone who built a very nice Buffalo. He used LEDs on the front pannel, with the Mux to indicate what input was in use. I though this is a very nice job, but I lost the information and can't find it any more. 
 I am assembling my Buffalo now and I would like to find this post to have a better look.
 If there is anyone among you that could link me with this post, it would be very much appreciated. Thank you.
 Jean-Charles


----------



## MrMajestic2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jean-Charles* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys. Sorry to interrupt this nice discussion, but I am looking for an information. I saw somewhere, may be on this thread, someone who built a very nice Buffalo. He used LEDs on the front pannel, with the Mux to indicate what input was in use. I though this is a very nice job, but I lost the information and can't find it any more. 
 I am assembling my Buffalo now and I would like to find this post to have a better look.
 If there is anyone among you that could link me with this post, it would be very much appreciated. Thank you.
 Jean-Charles_

 

Was that perhaps my Buffalo?


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnwmclean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you want to sell the other LCBPS? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

hmmm; well leave it with me, i'm looking for an excuse to use them both in a balanced SS amp project to use with the buffalo, but may still end up deciding to go hybrid or fully tube with it, in which case the LCBPS would be of no use, but they are quite useful little things. leave it with me. of course I have not even received the placid kits yet, who knows I may actually prefer the old PSU, but I somehow doubt it.

 MrMajestic: what are you using to switch the DSD/PCM there?? an OTTO or some logic based device??


----------



## MrMajestic2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_MrMajestic: what are you using to switch the DSD/PCM there?? an OTTO or some logic based device??_

 

Just a plain OTTO.


----------



## qusp

arent they great little things?? I went back to buy another one for my build to switch between the entire output of the MUX and an i2S input, but no stock


----------



## mourip

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...I just bought 2 x placid BP for the I/V stages, anyone running them yet?? just wondering what sort of heat they give off?? when I planned and bought my case I wasnt thinking of the placid and therefore with the small amount of heat given off, I havent planned for venting the top panel. There is plenty of room for ventilation and I could send the top in with my front panel this week when I get that done, but would rather avoid the ex[pense if its not needed. I gather the shunts will run considerably hotter than the standard power supplies, but how much hotter. problem is the meter I have, has a bug in the software that means the temperature probes are inaccurate and not worth using. I bought the meter with this knowledge and got a good price because of it; at the time it wasnt a feature that meant a great deal to me. am I worrying about nothing?? or should I really pony-up for venting of the top to be safe??_

 

They run quite hot. I have two of them on my Buff32, one per channel, replacing two LCBPS's. I originally had them running at 250ma(.25v across R17/18) per the TP instructions but they heated up my entire Parmetal case which has a lot of ventilation holes already. I contacted TP and they suggested cutting the current down to ~150ma each since I was running one Placid per channel.


----------



## qusp

great, thats both exactly the information I wanted to know and exactly the information I didnt want to know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 how is it since dropping the current, because thats exactly the set up i'll be running. dual mono with LCDPS on the DAC and 2 x placid BP one for each channel

 thanks for the info!!!


----------



## Jean-Charles

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrMajestic2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Was that perhaps my Buffalo?



_

 

What a beautifull job.
 I remember seeing your Buffalo and it caught my attention at once. I don't have the talent to make such a nice case. I loved the idea to place the LEDs horizontaly. Thank you for leading me to this picture. would you have other pics somewher?
 This is the information I need to build mine at last.
 Do I see you are using the Buffalo with sacd?


----------



## mourip

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_great, thats both exactly the information I wanted to know and exactly the information I didnt want to know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 how is it since dropping the current, because thats exactly the set up i'll be running. dual mono with LCDPS on the DAC and 2 x placid BP one for each channel

 thanks for the info!!!_

 

I dropped the current this evening to 160ma(.16v across R17/18). The heatsinks went from being untouchable to merely hot. The case went from hot to warm...

 Good luck with your DAC!


----------



## Beefy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mourip* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I dropped the current this evening to 160ma(.16v across R17/18). The heatsinks went from being untouchable to merely hot. The case went from hot to warm..._

 

160mA each? That's still pretty high, considering current draw is under 100mA according to the manual......


----------



## mourip

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Beefy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_160mA each? That's still pretty high, considering current draw is under 100mA according to the manual......_

 

You are probably right. If you follow the manual and are just using one Placid you will be setting it to 250ma(.25v). Half of that would be 125ma each which allows a bit of extra. 

 I was going by what Bran said in a post on the TP Support webpage responding to another builder who was also using two supplies. He said "First you may not need 250ma since you are actually using two placid BPs. I would set them up for about 150ma each."

 Thanks for the input...

 Paul


----------



## Beefy

Well I'm just going by the Buffalo32 manual which says 68mA V+, 43mA V-. No idea if that is per channel or not......


----------



## Wilf

I've found, and others, that the buff does seem to draw a little bit more than it mentions in the manual. A shunt I was using to power the VA section fell over (fell to 4V) when set to supply 20mA more than detailed in the manual. Increased the current, and the o/p voltage stayed steady and stable at 15V. There is no problem with setting the current too high, apart from the reg getting warmer, and as it's approaching winter here in the UK, you can have your B32 doubling as a local heater!

 By the way, if you are powering the B32 with just the LCDPS/LCBPS supplies, I personally feel that you are missing a good chunk of what this dac is capable of doing, musically. I've used both the Simplistic Salas Shunt (over at DIYAudio) and Paul Hynes shunts, and they provide a substantially better musical performance than a LM317/337 based supply. I've not tried the new TP placid shunts, but I would consider that they provide a similar improvement over the basic LCDPS/LCBPS, and they also appear to be very good value for money.


----------



## pila405

Is it possible to have much lower cost DAC configuration based on the ES9018 DAC chip? [cheaper than the Buffalo]


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pila405* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it possible to have much lower cost DAC configuration based on the ES9018 DAC chip? [cheaper than the Buffalo]_

 

6moons.com: News Room

  Quote:


 October 2009 - MiniMax DAC? - Bill O'Connell of Morning Star Audio, the US importer and co-owner of Eastern Electric, announces a DAC based on the new ESS Technologies 32-bit ES9018 Sabre chip. This machine will have volume and gain control, RCA and XLR outputs, RCA/BNC/Toslink/XLR and USB 2 or higher digital inputs and sell for $600 pre-ordered, $700 once the first shipment hits US shores. A valve output stage option is under consideration too.


----------



## pila405

Are you talking about the MiniMax DAC? it's even more expensive...


----------



## Nebby

The Buffalo32 kit costs $529, that price does not include chassis, jacks, and other misc. parts/labor that may be required in the assembly of your dac.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pila405* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you talking about the MiniMax DAC? it's even more expensive..._

 

Then you haven't done your homework well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My B32 build was more than 1,300$.


----------



## pila405

Nothing on the 300$ range? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 How is the Opus DAC in comparision?


----------



## DoYouRight

Buffalo dac is a refrence dropkick the face DAC it is not gonna be had for $300. Opus is great and sounds fantastic. Opus beats out most dacs in the range of dacmagic, and others around $500ish. The Buffalo has been favored to several thousand dollar DACs though.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Wilf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've found, and others, that the buff does seem to draw a little bit more than it mentions in the manual. A shunt I was using to power the VA section fell over (fell to 4V) when set to supply 20mA more than detailed in the manual. Increased the current, and the o/p voltage stayed steady and stable at 15V. There is no problem with setting the current too high, apart from the reg getting warmer, and as it's approaching winter here in the UK, you can have your B32 doubling as a local heater!

 By the way, if you are powering the B32 with just the LCDPS/LCBPS supplies, I personally feel that you are missing a good chunk of what this dac is capable of doing, musically. I've used both the Simplistic Salas Shunt (over at DIYAudio) and Paul Hynes shunts, and they provide a substantially better musical performance than a LM317/337 based supply. I've not tried the new TP placid shunts, but I would consider that they provide a similar improvement over the basic LCDPS/LCBPS, and they also appear to be very good value for money._

 

yes, this is my feeling as well, i'm hoping the placids improve an already very nice dac. i'm also looking at some paul hynes bits and pieces for the dac board, but may focus more on output stage, such as a transformer based volume control, knocking out output and attenuation in one go or as Natonrice suggested building myself a diamond buffer. but first to actually get this thing in a proper box so I can post a pic


----------



## DoYouRight

diamond buffer? Did naton use that for his even though he runs it straight to the b22?


----------



## nattonrice

He does indeed run it straight to his b22.
 Qusp was looking for ideas for driving his iems using the buff.
 A unity gain/buffer at the output would be ideal I thought.


----------



## qusp

indeed, Nat does 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 as he has already just said 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 we have just been kicking ideas around for me, that give me a very nice output without having to build an entire new amp. I think I would definitely have enough room to simply incorporate it into the current case, and if not I have a few smallish hammonds that would work well


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


 A unity gain/buffer at the output would be ideal I thought. 
 

Something like a discrete, balanced input module with a diamond buffer output stage?


----------



## nattonrice

Well what I refereed him to was the JISBOS.


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nattonrice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well what I refereed him to was the JISBOS._

 

Ah. I was thinking about this: Introducing Ventus - diyAudio


----------



## nattonrice

Hehe I knew I was missing something there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I missed that, thanks for the linky!

 Edit: that looks to be your standard board size. Qusp, that would stack really nicely in your enclosure me thinks =]


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


 Ah. I was thinking about this: Introducing Ventus - diyAudio 
 

Sorry for the shameless plug.


----------



## stringgz301

Been watching the TP site but don't see any word on availability of the kits. Any word?


----------



## BrianDonegan

We are currently redesigning the Buffalo, so it will be a little while before it is for sale again. You will like it, I promise. It will also remain ahead of the curve.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Any info on the redesign, Brian?


----------



## BrianDonegan

Well, it is in a state of flux, so I don't want to say anything that will not be true when it is done.


----------



## IPodPJ

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, it is in a state of flux, so I don't want to say anything that will not be true when it is done._

 

Any consideration of using dual ESS9018 chips in mono mode? That would be seriously impressive.


----------



## glt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_... You will like it, I promise. It will also remain ahead of the curve._

 

That's good enough for me! Different manufacturers are releasing affordable solutions based on the Sabre such as Eastern Electric and Oppo, it is good that TPA always aims to be ahead of the curve.


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


 Different manufacturers are releasing affordable solutions based on the Sabre such as Eastern Electric and Oppo 
 

Oppo is using the lesser Sabre (probably due to it being $30 less per chip) so no worries there.

  Quote:


 Any consideration of using dual ESS9018 chips in mono mode? 
 

No. $100+ just in chips... If you really wanted to, I guess you could do it with two boards and some custom firmware.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, it is in a state of flux, so I don't want to say anything that will not be true when it is done._

 

Arrgg, curiosity kills the cat 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 If you can add an async USB input, that'd be awesome. My B32s is just finished yesterday and I hope there won't be a big change in the new revision .


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you can add an async USB input, that'd be awesome_

 

That would be a separate project. We like to keep things modular.


----------



## nattonrice

We should start a pool!

 I'll put money on less integration on the I/V side of things possibly with new discrete modules.

 Disclaimer: based purely off what everyone seems to request at every turn lol.


----------



## BrianDonegan

I/V will be separate, like with the original Buffalo. We will have different I/V modules available. IVY-II from the B32 will be a separate board, so you can still get what is basically a B32, but better in other ways. We will also have discrete I/V stage, sort of Counterpoint-II. A balanced tube stage is even a possibility, but only if we come up with something we like and feel suits the DAC to our standards.


----------



## nattonrice

Damn that means I need to rebuild my buff32 =P


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nattonrice* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Damn that means I need to rebuild my buff32 =P_

 

A year in the making, 
 but an upgrade is up for the taking,
 off to the for sale threads, in very fast stead,
 someone will get lucky, it’s an incredible DAC,
 I hope nat get his money back


----------



## oneplustwo

Damn... and I just finished this one yesterday for lil knight:









 Optical, USB, and coax inputs feeding TP 4:1 MUX. Dual mono LCBPS power supplies plus one LCDPS. Outputs are XLR and 4-pin K1000 plus a TRS jack and RCA's. Power switch is Amb's e24 circuit triggered by an LED ringed Bulgin momentary switch.

 Still needs feet and nicer knobs that LK is going to source himself.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Does it look good?

 I think so


----------



## johnwmclean

^^ Where's the pics of your build Tran? hehehe


----------



## manaox2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does it look good?

 I think so 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It definitely does.


----------



## Lil' Knight

I can't wait to receive it!

 Ordered some ebony feet and knobs, hopefully they will match well with the front panel.


----------



## Wilf

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I/V will be separate, like with the original Buffalo. We will have different I/V modules available. IVY-II from the B32 will be a separate board, so you can still get what is basically a B32, but better in other ways. We will also have discrete I/V stage, sort of Counterpoint-II. A balanced tube stage is even a possibility, but only if we come up with something we like and feel suits the DAC to our standards._

 

Brian, if I can be cheeky, can I ask why the separate IVY? You've mentioned in the past that to get the performance out the B32s that you wanted, the IVY had to be integrated, to optimise signal paths etc.

 Is the decision to give more choice to customers? 

 The question is asked purely out of interest, not for other means (like has happened elsewhere..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


 Is the decision to give more choice to customers? 
 

Yes. We were going to do two versions, but it gets pretty expensive to support. We are currently planning (again, not final) to have the IVY-II stack and have very short pathing to maintain performance.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Brian,

 I just wonder if the revision is built on modules? Can we who already have the B32s 'upgrade' by just replacing the new boards?


----------



## BrianDonegan

I'm not sure I follow... upgrade to the new version of the DAC?


----------



## DoYouRight

any eta? sometime before spring? -_-


----------



## BrianDonegan

Quote:


 any eta? 
 

No.

  Quote:


 sometime before spring? 
 

Yes.


----------



## johnwmclean

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrianDonegan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not sure I follow... upgrade to the new version of the DAC?_

 

In other words with the revised version your working on, have you considered making the modules to the same footprint as the current Buffalo32 module?

 It would make a lot of sense for a DIYer to simply exchange modules rather than the daunting task of a complete re-build.


----------



## BrianDonegan

Ah. We are actually shooting for the size of the old Buffalo and many of the other boards we sell (3.3" x 2").


----------



## nattonrice

Yeah have the core board with the DAC, input header and digital power regs the same size as the buff32s.

 Then where the flanking integrated IVYII used to be you can simply have blank space (think the epsilon22 back panel from AMB) with pin socket headers.
 Then we could choose the (two: left and right) modules that we wanted and mount them to the digital board with (bottom mounted) pin headers (like how the gamma1/2 fits together).

 That way new customers have a all the choice they want and old customers have an upgrade path =P

 That could be a lot of work though O.O

 Edit: you posted before me oops hehe.


----------



## BrianDonegan

Well, we are kinda beyond that part of the design stage already. You should be able to fit the new version in the same or less space as the old version. The other output stages are not complete yet so I can't comment on how big they will be.


----------



## tarnajiro

Hi

 After many hours of reading about this Dac, i really want to try one. However, with my lack of electronic knowledge, i am unable to do this intense DIY. 

 Is there any place i can buy the complete version of this DAC?


----------



## johnwmclean

It’s really not _that _intense, the dac comes as a complete assembled board, you only really have to build the psu’s and there relatively simple. Most of the work depending on your budget is with chassis itself. 
 You don’t have to have a huge amount of electronic knowledge to put one together (I don’t, and did) although I would not recommend this as a first time build as there’s still mains wiring to contend with.


----------



## tarnajiro

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnwmclean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It’s really not that intense, the dac comes as a complete assembled board, you only really have to build the psu’s and there relatively simple. Most of the work depending on your budget is with chassis itself. 
 You don’t have to have a huge amount of electronic knowledge to put one together (I don’t, and did) although I would not recommend this as a first time build as there’s still mains wiring to contend with._

 

thank you for the reply, this have bring some light to me abit.

 If i really have to build, yes It will be my first time. I only have some small expreience of making diy IC and headphone cable. Basic soldering will be fine for me... (more confident, after i soldered the HD800 connectors)

 When you say "you only really have to build the psu’s and there relatively simple. Most of the work depending on your budget is with chassis itself. " 

 does this mean... 

 1. i have to build my own PSU from some capcitors and transformers? (if i use the right terms)

 2. chassis means metal box + wires + all sockets
 3. Is there any other component else i would need?

 cheers,


----------



## johnwmclean

1) There are psu’s kits available from Twisted Pair Audio, they also sell suitable transformers.
 2) Yes that’s right.
 3) That may depend, on what kind of inputs you need and how many?

 Have you had a look here:
Twisted Pear Audio

 There’s a lot of info that may help.


----------



## tarnajiro

Lets say i need a Dac with 

 2x single end output
 2x balance output
 1x USB input
 2x Coax Input
 1x on/off switch
 1x input selector ( if needed)

 Besides these component below.... whats else i need

 - Some sockets and chassis

 - wires (copper or silver)

 -# Buffalo32s DAC + Dual-Mono Power Supply Combination [1] Buffalo DAC Module with Integrated I/V Stage (Assembled and Tested)
 # [1] Low-Current Dual Power Supply Kit
 # [2] Low-Current Bi-Polar Power Supply Kits


----------



## johnwmclean

tarnajiro, I’d shoot Brian from TPA an email he’ll sort you out, there on holidays till the 4th. I’d also wait till the new updated Buffalo II is available later this month before placing any orders.


----------



## FallenAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tarnajiro* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_2x single end output : Just RCAs
 2x balance output : Just XLRs
 1x USB input : USB Receiver, set to S/PDIF output
 2x Coax Input : S/PDIF MUX
 1x on/off switch : Self explanatory
 1x input selector ( if needed) : Yes, to control MUX

 Besides these component below.... whats else i need : Start planning project, draw it out on paper with all connections, power wiring etc, get full bill of materials, double check that you haven't missed anything, then post._

 

Added comments


----------



## tarnajiro

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FallenAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Added comments_

 

Thank you for the comment...

 With my limited electrcal knowledge, i do not know how to draw the layout... if someone tell me to connect A to B and do some solder that is all i can do...

 i am thinking of asking a freind to do this for me after i gather all material and understand the basic.....

 perhaps someone with ultimate design might want to share the layout??


----------



## FallenAngel

Only one way to learn - try for yourself. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There have been many posts with photos of other builds, you should be able to see what goes into these. The rest, you'll pick up as you go along; just have to start.


----------



## johnwmclean

I agree with what FA has said, you need to get a little elbow grease happening, here’s a little more help, hope you can run with it from here.

 This is a final artwork file of my build, btw I wouldn’t call it “ultimate” there are other builds that are a lot fancier...





 The case I used is is a galaxy series from Modushop:
modushop.biz

 Attached is a wiring diagram I used. Good Luck.


----------



## tarnajiro

thank you for the diagram. That is really something I can start with.

 Any other thing would like to add to the design please post... i m dieing to have this build as soon as the new buffallo is released.


----------



## tarnajiro

I am in the process of planning the price and labour for this Dac. It turn out that it will cost roughly from 1150 USD, which will be quite close the Audio GD reference 1 price.

 Anyone compare those two together? I am having a second though of getting the ref1 instead as the price come quite close and ref1 seems to have much complicate (perhaps better in some way)design.

 any thoughts of the comparison?


----------



## qusp

please explain how complicated means better? in fact well exucuted but simple is usually better when it comes to electronics. I havent heard the REF1, but a buffalo2 with a discrete output stage will take this dac to heights well above its price, well above. the buffalo32 has been compared to dacs costing 4000+


----------



## tarnajiro

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_please explain how complicated means better? in fact well exucuted but simple is usually better when it comes to electronics. I havent heard the REF1, but a buffalo2 with a discrete output stage will take this dac to heights well above its price, well above. the buffalo32 has been compared to dacs costing 4000+_

 

Perhaps i may have used the wrong word. I am not sure which dac would better or i would like better. However, the circuit design of ref1, from power supply to signal output e.g. ACSS. They seem to be more compicate than the buffallo.

 From reviews, i understand that both are excellent DAC. For the buffallo,I have to order from US and ask an engineer for help where as Ref1 i can just order the finished package from a dealer in my city which will be much easier for me.

 In terms of price (according to Johnmcclean design and my estimation the buffalo is about 25% cheaper. It would be cheaper if i live in US.

 I was just hopping that with some information and experience from our forum members would help me to decide if i should get the buffallo. For example, " someone own both products and decide to get the buffallo, coz the sound much better or cheaper with similar sound quality."


----------



## BrianDonegan

The pricing currently listed on the Buffalo page is not accurate for the new version. I will be posting new pricing (hopefully) this week as we iron out final part selection.


----------



## pila405

Higher or lower?


----------



## BrianDonegan

Lower


----------



## BrianDonegan

I will begin taking pre-orders for the Buffalo II tomorrow evening. I am going to update the web page with the exact times in the next hour or so. 

 Pre-orders, as usual, will be taken through the web site, the same as if you were just buying something. If you order other parts along with your pre-ordered DAC, I will assume you want them all shipped together.

 I will also be taking pre-orders for the new IVY-III. I will get it's web page and details up today as well.

 I expect to begin shipping the Buffalos and IVYs the week of March 8th, if all goes as expected with manufacturing.


----------



## swt61

IVY-III? I'd heard of the Ivy-II, or is that just a mistype?

 I'm very excited about the Buffalo II! My source will soon be on par with the rest of my system.


----------



## Russ White

You read correctly. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 IVY III is basically two IVY II plus a Ballsie Lite on one PCB. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Its designed so that you can power each section independently or with a single bipolar supply.

 Cheers!
 Russ


----------



## MrMajestic2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Russ White* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You read correctly. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 IVY III is basically two IVY II plus a Ballsie Lite on one PCB. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Its designed so that you can power each section independently or with a single bipolar supply.

 Cheers!
 Russ_

 

Will the IVY III be the same size as the Buffalo board and stackable? Is the idea with two small half boards on each side of the DAC scrapped? I kinda liked that, but stack works good too


----------



## Russ White

The IVY III is the same size as the BUF32S, which is to say 2x the width of the Buffalo II but the same length. It has mounting holes that are aligned with the Buffalo II holes so that the Buffalo II can mount easily on top of the IVY III. The Buffalo II outputs also exactly align with the IVY-III inputs for nice short signal path. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Cheers!
 Russ


----------



## BrianDonegan

IVY III actually has two sets of inputs. One set lines up with BII. The other is on the end to line up with COD and OPUS.


----------



## hvu

I was wondering what is the difference between the stereo and dual mono firmware for the volumite?


----------



## BrianDonegan

Dual Mono is for two Buffalo DACs, each in mono mode (8 DACs per channel).


----------



## hvu

If I get 2 buffalo would it run off 1 IVY or do I need 2 IVY's?
 If I was going to run a unbalanced to my tube amp and then also a balanced to a b22 later on would the above setup work?


----------



## hvu

I was also wondering if the transformers are included with the Buffalo-II DAC Module + Placid Power Supply Kit Combo or do I have to add that on separately to the order?


----------



## ShinyFalcon

Assuming you are using two Buffalos in dual-mono, it would be in your best interest to use two IVY. You can however use one IVY.
 Edit: Actually I don't think it will matter as much with the IVY III... Just use one, you'll save money that way.

 Yes, you can use unbalanced and balanced simultaneously. Just adjust your setup accordingly (XLR jacks, RCA jacks, etc)

 The transformers are separate from the kit.


----------



## BrianDonegan

Well, we were really thinking that is someone were to go nutso and use dual-mono, they would use two IVYs, then the SE output of each IVY would actually be used as the balanced outputs. In dual mono mode, we invert the phase on 4 of the DACs, so at the Ballsie outputs, you would use L+, GND and R+ as balanced out.


----------



## Russ White

Basically in Dual Mono the SE output from the selected channel (lets say left) will be in phase, and the SE output from the opposite side (lets say right) would be opposite phase. You take them both and you have a single balanced channel. If you want SE you can add a Ballsie lite, or just take the normal phase output.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Its up to you. 

 If you need SE, I would strongly suggest using the Ballsie Lite otherwise you really are not gaining anything from the dual mono setup and might as well just use one BII stereo.

 Cheers!
 Russ


----------



## BrianDonegan

I am pushing the planned ship date out a week, the the week of March 15th. I might be able to beat that still, but want to be safe.


----------



## XXII

Wow, from what I saw, the first batch was sold out in 3 minutes.

 Edit: Actually, looks like it's still available..oops..


----------



## BrianDonegan

There seem to be more available....

 When I calculate stock, I include items people have put in their shopping carts. If they do not follow through, they become available again.


----------



## qusp

brian, do I need to get new volumite software from you? are there new filters and control that will make the DIP not work?


----------



## fierce_freak

What are everyone's plans for output stages and power supply options?


----------



## Beefy

I'm going to slowly upgrade my existing Buffalo24/IVY combo (link in sig), if funds are good....... so I will definitely stick with the IVY III, to keep the casework clean. No new holes, and stackability is a great win, and I'm stoked TPA went back to the original form factor.

 Power will be a single Placid BP for the IVY III, and two halves of a LCDPS for VD and VA, as per my current setup.


----------



## Magsy

I've overspent elsewhere so I'm starting cheap! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I've bought the DAC and an IVY pcb, I only need balanced so I'm not populating it all.

 I have some PCB's due in probably 6-8 weeks for a version of Salas' shunt reg and assuming they work ok, will be my final power source. I'm using two bipolar ones for IVY III and a third for the DAC. In the meantime I will use something knocked up from my parts bin.

 Ultimately I want to use Erno Borbelys Jfet output stages but they are very costly and I'd like to get an idea of what the Sabre is about first. Also there is Counterpoint 2 or if they do produce a balanced tube I/V I'll be all over that


----------



## Cata1yst

ive been digging around looking for an answer and skimming this thread... but cant come to a definite conclusion to the answer to wither the Buffalo can be be hooked up directly from the base buffalo board to the output without the use of a ivy/ballise? if it could would i need output caps like the Opus?

 i have a feeling that the answer is no but figured id ask?


----------



## Ciu

About Buff32, first version board
 Would it be possible to pick the balanced signal output, just at the chip output, before entering in the I/V "components" ?
 Thanks for any help, with pictures, or detailled procedure

 R.C.


----------



## apatN

This is still the main Buffalo thread? Well today I installed some xlr outputs to the DAC. I use the outputs to drive the DT880 600 directly and really it sounds absolutely great. Do more people use this?


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote: 





apatn said:


> This is still the main Buffalo thread? Well today I installed some xlr outputs to the DAC. I use the outputs to drive the DT880 600 directly and really it sounds absolutely great. Do more people use this?


 

 Hi mate, I will be receiving my Buffalo II early next month. Was considering buying a balanced amp to complement it, but after reading your post I am tempted to save myself some money! Will be reterminating my HD650s soon for balanced.
   
  Can someone let me know the deal with using the Buffalo as a pre amp too? I assume this is no problem? If so, what are my options for volume control? Haven't started trawling through all the info regarding the Buffalo yet. Need to start doing it soon though to make sure I have everything I need in my order from TP before it ships.


----------



## Percival

I bought the Buffalo II, the Ivy III, 2 Placids and a Volumite. This combination works wonderfully as a DAC/preamp. No need for an extra headphone amp  the Ivy III will power any headphone (up to 150mA available if I remember correctly). You can use the balanced and SE outputs at the same time. I connect my HD600s to the balanced outputs - superb.
   
  I use the Volumite as a volume control - the Buffalo II PCB has pins especially to power it, so installation is easy. It's a digital attenuator, changing volume in the Sabre chip itself. This is theoretically better than an analogue pot.


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote: 





percival said:


> I bought the Buffalo II, the Ivy III, 2 Placids and a Volumite. This combination works wonderfully as a DAC/preamp. No need for an extra headphone amp  the Ivy III will power any headphone (up to 150mA available if I remember correctly). You can use the balanced and SE outputs at the same time. I connect my HD600s to the balanced outputs - superb.
> 
> I use the Volumite as a volume control - the Buffalo II PCB has pins especially to power it, so installation is easy. It's a digital attenuator, changing volume in the Sabre chip itself. This is theoretically better than an analogue pot.


 
   
  That's great info, just what I was after thanks! Just how good is the Buffalo as a HP amp I wonder? If it is anywhere near as good a HP amp as it is a DAC then it must be an absolute bargain!
   
  So it is just the volumite I need, and not the Joshua Tree as well? Sorry for the newbie questions, haven't ever used an attenuator, and as already stated I haven't properly begun to read up on the Buffalo yet. 
   
  Cheers in advance


----------



## Lil' Knight

Just the volumite will be fine, that's what I have in my B32s. I agree that the Buffalo could do a great job driving headphones to excellent level.


----------



## apatN

I can only compare the balanced outs straight from my Buffalo with my Goldpoint (that is also hooked to the Buff). Balanced from the Buff sounds very good and has some benefits over SE from the Goldpoint. You get a greater sense of air, soundstage (much better balanced) and also the bass goes deeper and stronger.
  The Goldpoint doesn't have that airy sound (all relative of course) but is better in dynamics. The music will hit you harder; the sound is more lively (again in comparison).

 To further illustrate this I think balanced is better for softer music like old hip-hop, some folk etc. But for classical I prefer the Goldpoint because of the more exciting sound. This is especially noticeable with the lower notes in big orchestras. Those huge bases sound fuller and stronger with the Goldpoint.
  Still, it's a tough call and I am sure some people will disagree with me. Sometimes I want the airy balanced sound for when soundstage is more important and sometimes I want the more exciting sound from the Goldpoint.


----------



## Beefy

I just keep trying to work out how to plug my Lambdas directly into the Buffalo. The plug doesn't damn well fit!


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote: 





apatn said:


> I can only compare the balanced outs straight from my Buffalo with my Goldpoint (that is also hooked to the Buff). Balanced from the Buff sounds very good and has some benefits over SE from the Goldpoint. You get a greater sense of air, soundstage (much better balanced) and also the bass goes deeper and stronger.
> The Goldpoint doesn't have that airy sound (all relative of course) but is better in dynamics. The music will hit you harder; the sound is more lively (again in comparison).
> 
> To further illustrate this I think balanced is better for softer music like old hip-hop, some folk etc. But for classical I prefer the Goldpoint because of the more exciting sound. This is especially noticeable with the lower notes in big orchestras. Those huge bases sound fuller and stronger with the Goldpoint.
> Still, it's a tough call and I am sure some people will disagree with me. Sometimes I want the airy balanced sound for when soundstage is more important and sometimes I want the more exciting sound from the Goldpoint.


 

 Thanks for your thoughts! This setup sounds ideal for me, as I am very happy with my SE amp - a fully modded Jaycar that I recently built. Was going to buy a balanced amp, but now I probably won't bother unless I get a balanced tube amp at some point such as the LD MKVIII. This has saved me a nice amount of money! Once the Buffalo is up and running I can sell my A-GD Compass and just use the Buffalo as my DAC and balanced HP amp, and also as a pre amp for my Jaycar and Quad 909 power amp for my speaker rig! Glad I ordered this Buffalo now!
   
  Anyone know if there are any considerations when using the Buffalo/IVY as a pre amp for a headphone amp, and a speaker power amp? Both these will be SE via RCA. The only time I will be using it balanced then is as we've just talked about to drive 'phones straight from it. By considerations, I mean things like any particular resistors or other components that need to be left off or anything like that?


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote: 





lil' knight said:


> Just the volumite will be fine, that's what I have in my B32s. I agree that the Buffalo could do a great job driving headphones to excellent level.


 

 Have you done this at all? Would love to hear more peoples thoughts on how the Buffalo sounds when driving 'phones. Looks like you have a fair selection of gear to compare to as well!


----------



## apatN

Funny stuff. Was listening to the GP with Johny Cash's_ At Folsom Prison_. Halfway through I figured I had to switch to balanced straight from the Buffalo. HOLY BATMAN MICRO DETAILS. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I said that balanced the sound gets more open with a big soundstage, right? Well it really shows with this album. Everything is put more into place. Cash in the front, inmates before him. Much more realistic balanced. The Goldpoint is no slouch at all, don't get me wrong. But where the Goldpoint is forcing me to listen to guitars and Cash's wonderful voice, the Buffalo balanced lets me listen to the stage. It is better in creating a live-atmosphere. I am hearing things in this album that I have never heard before, good stuff.


----------



## apatN

Oh BTW... I use the volume control of my Squeezebox or computer.


----------



## chum_2000_uk

Quote: 





apatn said:


> Funny stuff. Was listening to the GP with Johny Cash's_ At Folsom Prison_. Halfway through I figured I had to switch to balanced straight from the Buffalo. HOLY BATMAN MICRO DETAILS.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Sold! Sounds wonderful... can't wait!


----------



## Percival

Well the Ivy III is the output stage I use, I don't think you can connect direct to the Buffalo PCB. The Ivy III certainly does work well as a HP amp, no need to add more stuff to the chain than necessary IMHO. The JT is an analogue attenuator and they're not on sale at the moment anyway. I would say go for the Volumite.
  
  Quote: 





chum_2000_uk said:


> That's great info, just what I was after thanks! Just how good is the Buffalo as a HP amp I wonder? If it is anywhere near as good a HP amp as it is a DAC then it must be an absolute bargain!
> 
> So it is just the volumite I need, and not the Joshua Tree as well? Sorry for the newbie questions, haven't ever used an attenuator, and as already stated I haven't properly begun to read up on the Buffalo yet.
> 
> Cheers in advance


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## Percival

The Ivy III can run both with no modifications. As for balanced outs just for 'phones, that's just what I do. I bypassed the output resistors for some additional damping. It's all in the Ivy III manual anyway.
   
  Enjoy.
  Quote: 





chum_2000_uk said:


> Anyone know if there are any considerations when using the Buffalo/IVY as a pre amp for a headphone amp, and a speaker power amp? Both these will be SE via RCA. The only time I will be using it balanced then is as we've just talked about to drive 'phones straight from it. By considerations, I mean things like any particular resistors or other components that need to be left off or anything like that?


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## maruzen

very interested in this dac from what i've read and reviewed...
   
  sadly no one in my locale has this for audition. someone has to make the jump i guess...
   
  that was one long backread though... and i'm still not done...
   
  subscribed


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## chum_2000_uk

Just a quick question for those who have built the B-II with IVY3... I am in the middle of building the IVY 3 and I want to use this to power 'phones in balanced mode and a power amp for my speakers. In the manual it says:
   
  The IVY-III can easily drive most headphones (even down to 16Ω) when used as a balanced headphone driver along
 with the Volumite or similar digital volume control. The SE outputs are not capable of as much power, but can still be
 used for most headphones. It is recommended that if you wish to drive headphones you use jumpers for R25/R26
 and/or R27-R30, which will allow for better damping factor. The OPA1632 can drive up to 150mA, giving you plenty
 of power for almost any headphone listening situation. It is recommended when driving power amps to always use the
 output resistors, especially with very capacitive cables.
   
  So... for my setup where I want to be able to drive headphones and use the B-2 with a power amp, do I jumper R25-R30 or do I include them all?
   
  Cheers guys


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## FallenAngel

Well, it's unlikely that you'll drive both at the same time, so you'll have a switch... just wire inline resistors on the rear outputs and leave them out for headphone output.


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## jcx

Quote: 





chum_2000_uk said:


> Just a quick question for those who have built the B-II with IVY3... I am in the middle of building the IVY 3 and I want to use this to power 'phones in balanced mode and a power amp for my speakers. In the manual it says:
> 
> The IVY-III can easily drive most headphones (even down to 16Ω) when used as a balanced headphone driver along
> with the Volumite or similar digital volume control. The SE outputs are not capable of as much power, but can still be
> ...


 

 now I see where the misinformation is coming from - looks like Twisted Pear misread the OPA1632 datasheet
  
  150 mA is not the op amp's current drive ability - it is a value beyond which the chip may be damaged

 for usable output current a better place to look is the min short circuit current spec: +50/-60 mA - and that # is for no output V
   
  then look at the output V vs load R plot (fig 9) to see that [size=12pt]~50-60 mA also [/size]seems to be the working current limit of the (hopefully "typical") device the plot was made with
   
  gain resistors should be changed to get Vswing to match the headphone drive requirements (but the  fig 9 graph's peak current is going to be a limit, some higher Z headphones or higher sensitivity low Z iem could be driven "adequately")
   
   
  the 22 Ohm R isolate the op amp output from cable Cload which can cause instability - reducing to 5-10 Ohms or replacing with properly (over) sized ferrite bead core inductors would be my recommendation for direct headphone output because headphone cables have capacitance too
   
   
  overall a close reading of the OPA1632 datasheet doesn't make it look particularly good as a headphone amp - the output current ability makes it not much better than a "balanced" CMOY - I certainly wouldn't hang my K701 or any orthodynamic headphone from the OPA1632 output


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## chum_2000_uk

Quote: 





jcx said:


> now I see where the misinformation is coming from - looks like Twisted Pear misread the OPA1632 datasheet
> 
> 150 mA is not the op amp's current drive ability - it is a value beyond which the chip may be damaged
> 
> for usable output current a better place to look is the min short circuit current spec: +50/-60 mA - and that # is for no output V


 

 Are you sure you are correct? I don't personally know enough about any of this to pass comment, most of what you have said goes straight over my head tbh. I'm therefore not arguing with you here, but Brian and Russ seem pretty damn switched on regarding their product. This seems like it would be a fairly considerable oversight on their part, and mine and other people's results when driving headphones from the IVY-III would indicate that it actually does it well. I'm pretty sure that the results are better than a "Balanced" CMOY. Not that I've heard one


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## jcx

the apparent current limit from the data sheet is ~1.5-2x better than many op amps that have been used in CMOYs but not really high enough for low sensitivity, low impedance cans if you want to reach the higher dynamic peak SPL of some real world acoustic music performances
   
  I don't have the chips to measure but I have read datasheets and specified op amps for precision industrial/scientific instrumentation for several decades now
   
  the OPA1632 appears from the datasheet to best match moderate sensitivity, higher impedance headphone's drive requirements; some high sensitivity, low impedance cans could also be driven adequately


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## chum_2000_uk

So you are saying it would likely drive HD650's better than AKG K702's?
  
  Quote: 





jcx said:


> the apparent current limit from the data sheet is ~1.5-2x better than many op amps that have been used in CMOYs but not really high enough for low sensitivity, low impedance cans if you want to reach the higher dynamic peak SPL of some real world acoustic music performances
> 
> I don't have the chips to measure but I have read datasheets and specified op amps for precision industrial/scientific instrumentation for several decades now
> 
> the OPA1632 appears from the datasheet to best match moderate sensitivity, higher impedance headphone's drive requirements; some high sensitivity, low impedance cans could also be driven adequately


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## jcx

you should understand that I'm really talking about the extreme margins of performance - trying to recreate real world SPL of Orchestral or Big Band Jazz, sitting close to hard hit snare drums, cymbals
   
  at "polite" or "background" listening levels that are safe for all day, every day exposure or dynamic range compressed pop music the extra 12 dB headroom you would have with the OPA1632 driving HD6xx vs K70x would never come into play


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## beerguy0

Quote: 





jcx said:


> now I see where the misinformation is coming from - looks like Twisted Pear misread the OPA1632 datasheet
> 
> 150 mA is not the op amp's current drive ability - it is a value beyond which the chip may be damaged
> 
> ...


 

 I'm kind of surprised to see them make a claim of 150mA of current drive. I read the datasheet, and just as jcx pointed out, 150mA is the chips "don't do this to me" limit. The 50-60mA spec is the minimum current into a short circuit (0V output). The typical value is 85mA, and you could reasonably expect the average part to be pretty close to that. I usually interpret the minimum values as the guaranteed performance over temperature, voltage, etc.


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## Percival

Regarding the OP1632, you may wish to read what Russ has to say on the subject.
   
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/twisted-pear/160782-buffalo-ii-75.html#post2288682


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## chum_2000_uk

Great info - thanks Percival
  
  Quote: 





percival said:


> Regarding the OP1632, you may wish to read what Russ has to say on the subject.
> 
> http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/twisted-pear/160782-buffalo-ii-75.html#post2288682


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## maruzen

enjoying this DAC immensely with my entry level monitors, the Samson MediaOne 4a. recently hooked them with the stax lambda pro and the srm-1/mk-2 and even if I love the sound of the speakers better, there's no denying how good this DAC just is. my music just sounds so different, like more alive it seems. even the stuff I don't listen to have become enjoyable to listen to. amazing piece of technology. thanks to you guys over at Twsited Pear Audio! had a local DIY guru build it and he has done a masterful job too.


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## alexk400

Can someone post me their DAC installation images. Buffallo III
  I want the PSU, DAC, USB INPUT boards.
   
  It seems like many buying and building. Any images i can see?
   
  thanks.
  alexk


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## alexk400

Can i see some build pictures with Bufallo III cards


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## FallenAngel

The first pre-order batch just shipped last week, really not sure anybody has had a chance to complete these yet.  I'll try to post photos in a few weeks.


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## NumLock

Quick! Before the pre-order closes. What do I need to order from Twisted Pair's website to build a Buffalo DAC with optical, and usb or coax inputs?
  I know I need the Buffalo III DAC kit but what about those 3 accessories?
   
  Sorry if it has been asked before or if the answer is simple. My sleep meds have kicked in and I'm not all there at the moment.


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## BrianDonegan

Buffalo III with Tridents
 Placid HD or LCDPS to power the Buffalo + transformer (9V)
 S/PDIF Level Converter for coax (single or 4-channel if you want multiple sources)
 TOSLINK optical module to convert Optical to TTL-level S/PDIF
 USB Module to convert USB to TTL-level S/PDIF
 Ideally an I/V converter (IVY or Legato + Placid BP or LCBPS + Transformer (15V)


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## NumLock

Thanks. Hopefully I can catch it once they are in stock again.


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## Bo630

Hi all
   
  I am just like a white sheet of DIY, just know some basic about it. And now I am interested in building a buffalo by myself. What parts should I get? Most likely I will use USB as a input, as a part of my CAS system and output as 6.5mm balanced TRS, RCA and a smiple 3.5mm phone jack. First, is it possible to do so? Second, does the USB support the 32bit/192kHz input from the computer? And if not, how can I do so? Lastly, what parts exactly I need to have, both ordered from TPA and by myself. Thanks 
  p.s. sorry for my poor english 
   
  cheers
  Bo


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## Pars

^ your's is post 1281. I'd look up 2 whole posts (not pages, posts) to see what Brian Donnegan (of Twisted Pear) recommended to another person who had almost the same exact question as you just asked... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Also, this isn't a headphone amp, which is what most of the 2nd part of your question is related to. And I haven't heard of 6.5mm TRS balanced... you need 4 signals for balanced and TRS is 3.


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## kdb650

http://twistedpearaudio.com/docs/community_docs/leonvb-Buffalo_Integration_Guide_V1.0.5.pdf
   
  Bo630, this little document nicely covers everything in depth including optional accessories, configurations, etc. But reading a few inches up would be easier


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## HDMan

Quote: 





kdb650 said:


> http://twistedpearaudio.com/docs/community_docs/leonvb-Buffalo_Integration_Guide_V1.0.5.pdf
> 
> Bo630, this little document nicely covers everything in depth including optional accessories, configurations, etc. But reading a few inches up would be easier


 
   
  Thats the old DAC-II guide.
   
  The new DAC-III guide is here: leonvb-Buffalo_III_DAC_Integration_Guide_V1.2.5.pdf


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