# NEWS: Meridian Releases The Explorer Pocket-Sized USB DAC



## jude

One of my top choices for 2012's product of the year was *AudioQuest's Dragonfly*, a tiny 24/96-capable USB DAC that is about the size of a USB thumb drive. Today, Meridian is releasing what will no doubt be viewed as a Dragonfly competitor with their new Meridian Explorer pocket-sized DAC.
   

   
  I haven't used the Explorer yet, but at 4.0" x 1.25" x 0.7" it is larger than the Dragonfly--but the Explorer is 24/192-capable, and has two separate outputs (a dedicated 3.5mm combination analog/digital output with 24/96 mini Toslink digital optical output, and a 3.5mm headphone output). (The S/PDIF output downsamples 192 and 176.4 to 96 and 88.2, respectively. Input is via USB (mini type B), and uses an asynchronous USB implementation. The Meridian Explorer is also firmware-upgradeable via USB. It weighs 50 grams (1.76 ounces).
   
  The Meridian Explorer will be priced at $299.00.
   
  A Meridian Explorer will be arriving here soon, and I'll post more about it after I've had a chance to use it.
   
  (Click on the image at right to see the Meridian Explorer in much greater detail.)
   
Meridian Explorer Specifications:


> Inputs: USB mini type B
> Outputs: 3.5mm combination analog/digital jack with mini Toslink digital optical <96 kHz output and 2-ch analog line out, fixed 2V RMS; 3.5mm jack with variable-level headphone output, 130mW into 16Ω.
> Construction: Extruded Aluminium shell with moulded plastic endcaps and rubber foot.
> Power: USB, nominal 5V at <500mA.
> ...


 
   
*TTVJ* (a Head-Fi sponsor) will be offering the Meridian Explorer right away, so contact Todd (at TTVJ) now, and you may be able to get your Explorer before I do. (And let us know what you think when you do.) *Click here* to go directly to the Meridian Explorer on TTVJ's site.
   
  To see Meridian--one of the most respected names in digital audio--releasing a product like the Explorer is still another exciting sign that personal audio and headphone audio are growing, with more exciting things to come.


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## Swimsonny

Hopefully it supports Android USB audio !


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## juntom10

Quote: 





swimsonny said:


> Hopefully it supports Android USB audio !


 
  +1. That'd be great. For the power consumption, looks like android phones can handle it.


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## Icenine2

Interesting.  Design-wise it looks like a car muffler


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## Radio_head

Chris at CA has published a decently extensive review of the Explorer, even trying out some decent headphones with it.  I'm not sure how head-to-head it really goes with the Dragonfly - it's quite a bit bigger and doesn't connect directly to the computer (instead using a cable), so I see the two items as targeting a slightly different clientele.
   
  Here's one of Chris's images for size comparison:


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## TheJesusGuy

Quote: 





swimsonny said:


> Hopefully it supports Android USB audio !


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## zerodeefex

More interested in the comparison to the dacport. Going to pick one up to see how it performs.


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## DKCon

I work with a Meridian dealer.  I heard the Explorer at CES and at our store last week...man, these are crazy good.  As an outboard DAC, it rivals several $1,000+ options we have in the store.  Looking forward to a long listen once mine comes in!  Will report on Android connectivity.


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## FlySweep

> Originally Posted by *DKCon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I work with a Meridian dealer.  I heard the Explorer at CES and at our store last week...man, these are crazy good.  As an outboard DAC, it rivals several $1,000+ options we have in the store.  Looking forward to a long listen once mine comes in!  Will report on Android connectivity.


 
   
  Looking forward to your impressions.  Would be great if you had an ODAC or something of the sort on hand, too.  Thanks for finding out about Android connectivity, too.


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## zerodeefex

Quote: 





flysweep said:


> Looking forward to your impressions.  Would be great if you had an ODAC or something of the sort on hand, too.  Thanks for finding out about Android connectivity, too.


 
   
  I just ordered one and have an Audioengine D1, Audiengine D2, ODAC and a TEAC UD-501. I'll try to post comparisons once I have it in hand.


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## attilahun

Looks very cool. 
  I'm in the market for this type product. 
  This is clearly the beginning of the micro dac revolution. 
  Audioquest blew the doors open and now we're going to see a slew of similar products.
  Personally, I wish they didn't include tiny headphone amps, I would probably prefer a dedicated headphone amp and a simpler dac without a headphone jack and amp.


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## Bostonears

attilahun said:


> Looks very cool.
> I'm in the market for this type product.
> This is clearly the beginning of the micro dac revolution.
> Audioquest blew the doors open and now we're going to see a slew of similar products.
> Personally, I wish they didn't include tiny headphone amps, I would probably prefer a dedicated headphone amp and a simpler dac without a headphone jack and amp.


 
  For my own application, I'd want the headphone amp included. But the two types aren't mutually exclusive. CEntrance, for example, makes DACPort models with and without headphone amp.


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## Armaegis

Interesting. Reminds me a lot of the Dr. Dac Nano (aka JAVS Nano S or V).


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## Paul Meakin

Another review at HiFi Plus in the UK; they're impressed.
   
  http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/world-exclusive-meridian-audio-explorer-usb-dacheadphone-amplifier-hi-fi/


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## Paul Meakin

And another review; there seem to be a lot of world's firsts on this one...
   
  http://www.tonepublications.com/macro/meridian-audios-explorer/


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## LAmitchell

Just read CA's review comparing it to the Drangonfly...
   
  what surprises me is that although the EXPLORER sounds better,
  there doesn't seem to be a really BIG difference....
   
  guess I can hold on to my Dragonfly for another year or so


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## Armaegis

You mean you're not filled with the overwhelming urge to buy the latest new toy? What's this world coming to?


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## gidgiddonihah

Hmmm.  If my Dragonfly replacement doesn't work this might be where I look next if its Jude approved 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


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## richsto

"Hmmm.  If my Dragonfly replacement doesn't work this might be where I look next if its Jude approved "

Yes. You should go for it (that way I can hear it too). Of course the extra $50 is on you.


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## gidgiddonihah

richsto said:


> "Hmmm.  If my Dragonfly replacement doesn't work this might be where I look next if its Jude approved "
> 
> Yes. You should go for it (that way I can hear it too). Of course the extra $50 is on you.


 
   
  Seems a bit selfish...


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## AJHeadfi

Thanks for the news! 
   
  Audioquest DragonFly, HRT microStreamer, Centrance DACPort ... Meridian Explorer. There must be a 'pocket size' USB DAC roundup brewing somewhere.
   
  ADD: Good to see the manufacturer giving a bit of a rundown of the actual inside of the unit. Barely a day goes by without something new at Head-fi.org, call me addicted.


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## Poimandres

Here is a link to yet another review.  It appears that my wallet will be at least another 300 dollars lighter this week.


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## Bones13

Mines in the mail, should arrive Wednesday.
   
  I have DACPort and DragonFly for comparison.  Senn Momentum, AT ESW10JPN, and various IEMs for listening.


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## Poimandres

Looking forward to the comparison to the DACport.  The Meridian looks to be more portable and possibly stackable than the LX.  The LX may be making a trip back to Amazon to help fund the Explorer.


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## mab1376

I really like that you can flash custom firmwares on it, interesting to see what options are going to be available for tweaking.


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## Dissonant

Quote: 





poimandres said:


> Looking forward to the comparison to the DACport.  The Meridian looks to be more portable and possibly stackable than the LX.  The LX may be making a trip back to Amazon to help fund the Explorer.


 
  This. Just got my LX used and this comes out. Hopefully Centrance's engineering will still be competitive today. Not that I am not enjoying it.


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## Yuceka

sub' bed


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## kothganesh

Would love to see a comparison between the Explorer and the HRT Istreamer.


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## warrenpchi

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> Interesting.  Design-wise it looks like a car muffler


 

 Yup.


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## kingoftown1

color me excited.


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## jcruiz

excited for the review as most people say it's a dragonfly killer.
   
  i hope there's a kingrex udac and explorer comparo too.


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## djnui

As the design is very nice. I'd like to hear the sound color.


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## vrln

Could someone run RMAA on this? The official specs don't tell much... For IEM use (which for many will be the main use for this product) the output impedance number is critical to know. I'd also want to know the crosstalk specs at 16 ohms and many other things.

That said, this looks extremely promising. The future of hifi, in my opinion, is clearly mass market portable gear and it seems that's where the most development is happening these days. Looking forward to having an Explorer vs Dragonfly shootout at my local hifi store soon


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## customNuts

Yummy. Subscribed.


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## gregeas

Very curious to know if this would work with an iPad and CCK without a powered USB hub.


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## shigzeo

Quote: 





vrln said:


> Could someone run RMAA on this? The official specs don't tell much... For IEM use (which for many will be the main use for this product) the output impedance number is critical to know. I'd also want to know the crosstalk specs at 16 ohms and many other things.
> 
> That said, this looks extremely promising. The future of hifi, in my opinion, is clearly mass market portable gear and it seems that's where the most development is happening these days. Looking forward to having an Explorer vs Dragonfly shootout at my local hifi store soon


 
  You won't get those sort of answers from any of the websites that have 'reviewed' it so far. That will only come with users. Sighted hearing and price flagging is all you'll get from the likes of CA.


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## wfranklin

After reading the early reviews on this, and having been an admirer of the Meridian product line since its early days (remember Boothroyd-Stuart?), I quickly popped for this one yesterday (in stock at TTVJ).  I've been in the market for a compact all-in-one for use at work, and wanted one with 24/192 USB capability.  I've been using HRT MusicStreamer II for the past couple of years (with reasonable satisfaction); let's see if this meets and beats the sound quality of that venerable unit.


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## MoonUnit

I love the chipset they chose to use. XMOS + TI's new PCM5102 (their relatively new part with a direct-coupled output stage and minimum-phase digital filter) probably will make a very nice combo.


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## HiFiGuy528

Mine arrives today!  Stay tuned for my unboxing video.


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## cooperpwc

Subscribe.
   
  Maybe I missed it but do we know which DAC chip this uses?
   
  Edit: Ah, the schematic says the Texas Instruments PCM5102. (Perhaps they mean the more current PCM5102A?)


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## Speedv1

Sub'bed. Was 90% on grabbing a Dragonfly, maybe I'll be glad I waited .


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## bobeau

Quote: 





speedv1 said:


> Sub'bed. Was 90% on grabbing a Dragonfly, maybe I'll be glad I waited .


 
   
  I've had a Dragonfly since shortly after it came out, returned it after a few days, and repurchased.  TBH, while it's a fine unit, I don't think with probably 500+ hours of use my original issues have completely evaporated.  I'm in NYC at the moment and there's a Meridian dealer not too far away, I may head down and check it out later today.


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## DoomForce

I'm on the market for something like this for the Ultrasone Ed8 phones. Portable, not more than 300$, great quality, nice sturdy looks. Only thing I'm worried about now is the Android USB connectivity.. it's a deal breaker if it can't be done. In the aformentioned review they mention it is Type-2 USB and extra drivers needed, which might cause trouble (?), so count another one eagerly waiting to hear about this.
   
  On another note. Is there a similar device with audio controls (next/previous, volume up/down) out there at this range?


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## LoveKnight

Well well well. Saving my money for an ODAC but now I need to hold down for few weeks to read some more reviews and comparisons. Maybe I should save up more money to buy one. Reading that this one do not connect direct to USB port than this is a plus point, right? 24/192 really interesting. Thanks and waiting for more reviews, comparisons and impressions.


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## bobeau

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> I've had a Dragonfly since shortly after it came out, returned it after a few days, and repurchased.  TBH, while it's a fine unit, I don't think with probably 500+ hours of use my original issues have completely evaporated.  I'm in NYC at the moment and there's a Meridian dealer not too far away, I may head down and check it out later today.


 
   
  Alright, so I have one in hand and have been listening to it for 30 minutes.
   
  Unfortunately I only brought one thing with my to NYC, my JVC FXZ-200s.  I can say vs. the Dragonfly it has an overall leaner/cleaner/faster thing going on, with more detail in the upper end - tending a bit toward edgy.  Bass is certainly tighter, more impactful and detailed but overall sound seems to have less body for more air.  It's what I would call a clearly a more hifi sound.  The sound differences are not subtle.  I am somewhat worried these may be fatiguing for long listens but we'll see how it goes.
   
  One thing I do find somewhat alarming is they appear, at least with these phones, to require twice as much volume on the slider to get to a similar apparent volume.  I typically listen at 3-5 full bars depending on how hot the recording is, with these I'm more like in the 7-10 bar territory.  
   
  Anyway, just initial impressions, I'll probably drop back in after 30-40 hours or so.  I have a good feeling about this rig.
   
  EDIT: I swore I read somewhere these have rubber feet?  I see none on the bottom nor in the package?  Without something on the bottom it's easy to make it slide around the desk I'm working on, although it does have a somewhat rough texture.  Putting it on top of the pouch helps.


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## wfranklin

I don't think having to adjust the volume level higher should be a concern.  Different HF amps have different mV output at the headphone jack (there is no standard for that, different from, for example, the standard for a line-out jack).  Give it some time for break-in as well.  I know we expect perfection straight out-of-the-box, but you might be surprised at the change in sound quality over the next 100 hours or so.


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## bobeau

Quote: 





wfranklin said:


> you might be surprised at the change in sound quality over the next 100 hours or so.


 
   
  No doubt, this has some relatively large caps for a product like this.


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## Bostonears

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> No doubt, this has some relatively large caps for a product like this.


 
  Yeah, those beefy electrolytics will take some time to form. (The muffler shape was a good choice to fit those in.)


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## zerodeefex

well, blows my Audioengine D1 out of the water immediately through my JH16s. Will compare to a few more sources, ODAC when I have a sufficient amp again, and against my TEAC UD-501 with PCM content. 
   
  Once I have sufficient amplification again, I'll use the HD800s to run the test.


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## cat6man

Just got mine but haven't listened to it yet.  They have them in stock at Talk of the Town in Allendale (northern new jersey, about 30 minutes from my house).
   
  Looks like only windows and mac drivers for now, though i'm hoping it will work eventually with android devices.
   
  On Thursday, someone from Meridian will be in Allendale to introduce the Explorer and I'm going to try to drop by in the afternoon some time.
   
  If you have any questions you would like me to ask Meridian on Thursday (other than android and linux support), post it here.
   
  Marty


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## mikemercer

I heard it at CES.
  Was impressed, but it was noisy (and I was using my Audeze LCD3's).
  I should have a unit in for review soon!!


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## LFC_SL

Three-way against dragonfly AND dacport needed. Can understand why people focus on the former as it is more readily available but...


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## dcginc

I would sure like to know if it is iPad compatible via the CCK ?


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## dcginc

Quote: 





dcginc said:


> I would sure like to know if it is iPad compatible via the CCK ?


 
   
  If you have any questions you would like me to ask Meridian on Thursday (other than android and linux support), post it here.
   
  Marty


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## vrln

Quote: 





dcginc said:


> If you have any questions you would like me to ask Meridian on Thursday (other than android and linux support), post it here.
> 
> Marty


 
   
  Real specifications, the current information says almost nothing. At least SNR, crosstalk and most importantly output impedance. I think it´s baffling how a portable high fidelity product can even be advertised without mentioning the output impedance when most people will be using them with low-ohm sensitive headphones. There´s nothing subjective about frequency response variations due to impedance mismatches. The Astell & Kern iRiver DAP a good example of an interesting product ruined entirely by high output impedance, stunningly misguided for a portable device. I´m hoping the lack of this information doesn´t mean the Explorer suffers from it too as it´s looking like a product I might just buy soon. Not buying one blind though...


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## Poimandres

I ordered one from TTVJ earlier and they are out of stock. Mine may not ship until Friday or Monday.


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## bcwang

Quote: 





dcginc said:


> If you have any questions you would like me to ask Meridian on Thursday (other than android and linux support), post it here.
> 
> Marty


 

 - Does it support iPad through CCK?
  - What is headphone out output impedance?
  - What is the max/average power draw from the usb bus?
   
  By the way, for those who have the units in hand..
   
  - Does it hiss at all with sensitive IEMs?
  - How much volume change per step?  I wonder if it's fine enough
  - Does it support the iPad through CCK?
  - Does it require drivers to work at all in windows or only if you want to support 192khz?
  - For easy to drive headphones, is the amp section quality enough that there is no improvement going external headphone amp and just using it as a DAC?
  - What headphones does it not have enough power to drive well and thus require an external headphone amp.
   
  - I imagine it'd improve with better USB power, maybe out of the iFi iUSB.  If you have something like that to try, please let us know if it sounds even better.
  - I wonder how it compares to the iFi iDAC, I was contemplating the iFi iUSB+ iDAC combo but then the explorer showed up.  Now I have to wait for some comparisons.
   
  Thanks!  Looking forward to more impressions.


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## ScuderiaHeadFi

Dang, as much as I'm enjoying my still-new DragonFly, this is really making me hurt!  I could have gotten the prestige and beauty of a Meridian product (let's face it, there's nothing else they make I could ever afford), plus a 24/192-capable mini-DAC if I had just waited another month?
   
  With car hobbyists, it's easy to read a magazine and ignore temptation to go by a new car - after all, there are many reasons that just doesn't make sense.  But with stereo/headphone hobbyists, so many purchases are so closely within reach it just becomes a painful cycle of trying to make yourself say "no" over and over again...


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## gidgiddonihah

Quote: 





scuderiaheadfi said:


> Dang, as much as I'm enjoying my still-new DragonFly, this is really making me hurt!  I could have gotten the prestige and beauty of a Meridian product (let's face it, there's nothing else they make I could ever afford), plus a 24/192-capable mini-DAC if I had just waited another month?
> 
> With car hobbyists, it's easy to read a magazine and ignore temptation to go by a new car - after all, there are many reasons that just doesn't make sense.  But with stereo/headphone hobbyists, so many purchases are so closely within reach it just becomes a painful cycle of trying to make yourself say "no" over and over again...


 
   
  Ever since my dad got my hooked on head-fi its the same way with me. Before that (and somewhat now) it was computer parts for my gaming rig 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


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## jacknight

need a comparison with dacport LX, anyone?


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## bobeau

Quote: 





bcwang said:


> - What is the max/average power draw from the usb bus?
> 
> Thanks!  Looking forward to more impressions.


 
   
  I'm finding the draw to be rather excessive - about 3 times what I saw with the Dragonfly on my 11" MBA, about 7-8% DF vs. what is over 25% with the ME.  If I let my computer sit idle (running 95% free load in the background) and drop my backlight to 1 notch at 100% power, I get a 6:30 estimate after 5 minutes.  If I add the ME in and play with volume slider at 50% for 5 minutes it settles about 4:20.  Not terribly scientific but it should shed some light.
   
  It's not hot by any means, but it does get a bit warm to the touch.  I'd say based on this I'll be keeping it as it's pretty damn impressive, but I probably will reserve my DF for times when I'm not by a plug or just for quick coding sessions when I'm out and about - a 4:20 idle with minimal brightness is probably a realistic 2.5 hours while working.


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## MatsudaMan

Thinking about getting an laptop just so I have an excuse to buy this.


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## unseen

Where are people ordering theirs online?


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## Radio_head

TTVJ


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## whereas

Please someone post the _*output impedance.*_ This should be a no-brainer.


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## krugorg

Looks like a great solution and a good price!
   
  Man, depreciation on USB-related audio gear seems like it is going to be just a tad higher.... new stuff keeps coming!


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## Poimandres

Link
The variable-level headphone out is capable of powering cans compatible with its 130mw, 16-ohm output


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## HiFan

This DAC really loioks nice. I like the 2 caps and that XMOS chip.  However, based on my experience with DACport LX, cleaning up the power and signal for these USB-powered products are not easy and can cost you a fortune.


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## shigzeo

Quote: 





whereas said:


> Please someone post the _*output impedance.*_ This should be a no-brainer.


 
  Again, you won't get that for a while. If Meridian don't supply it, you will have to wait for a performance-minded enthusiast to get hold of one. I'm thinking of ordering one myself. If I do, I'll test the output impedance. However, that won't be for a while. 
   
  One thing to note: even sources with high Ω output impedances can sound good with low Ω earphones/headphones. People have been enjoying the likes of Cowon and Hifiman players for years and until recently, haven't given it much thought. Only in the last year has there been any interest in output Ω. It's a good thing that headfi is waking up to performance gains countable to performance-minded circuitry, but it isn't the be-all end-all of output. Certain headphones/earphones in certain situations can exact heavy tolls in distortion and frequency artefacts, but not all the time. The DACport sounds great despite its ~10Ω output. Of course, closer to 0 is best, but I doubt that any reviewers out there except a few will even notice. Most review based on $ and looks if anything. Real performance is almost always secondary to other motives.


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## zerodeefex

Quote: 





whereas said:


> Please someone post the _*output impedance.*_ This should be a no-brainer.


 
  I'm unsure of everyone else, but mine arrived at work and I don't have a potentiometer handy to measure this easily at my desk. I don't understand how this is a "no brainer" as it's not listed in any of the Meridian provided product literature. Only that review mentions that it's 16 ohms.


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## McNikk

Sooo... does this thing work with android or what?


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## MoonUnit

Quote: 





mcnikk said:


> Sooo... does this thing work with android or what?


 
   
  It probably will. It uses XMOS and works on OS X without drivers, which usually means it will work on Android. May likely require a powered hub though.


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## LAmitchell

those caps on the Explorer look beautiful, but nothing so far would make me want to
  get rid of the sexy lil Dragonfly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  now if someone would say the Explorer sounds like a $10,000 dac then I would be
  excited. otherwise it just looks like a Centrance Dacport with a fancier company name.


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## Armaegis

Quote: 





shigzeo said:


> Again, you won't get that for a while. If Meridian don't supply it, you will have to wait for a performance-minded enthusiast to get hold of one. I'm thinking of ordering one myself. If I do, I'll test the output impedance. However, that won't be for a while.
> 
> One thing to note: even sources with high Ω output impedances can sound good with low Ω earphones/headphones. People have been enjoying the likes of Cowon and Hifiman players for years and until recently, haven't given it much thought. Only in the last year has there been any interest in output Ω. It's a good thing that headfi is waking up to performance gains countable to performance-minded circuitry, but it isn't the be-all end-all of output. Certain headphones/earphones in certain situations can exact heavy tolls in distortion and frequency artefacts, but not all the time. The DACport sounds great despite its ~10Ω output. Of course, closer to 0 is best, but I doubt that any reviewers out there except a few will even notice. Most review based on $ and looks if anything. Real performance is almost always secondary to other motives.


 
   
  And even with high output impedance, most headphones exhibit _relatively_ flat impedance response so that isn't going to make much of a difference to the casual listener. Yeah there might be some phase differential and impulse effects too, but most will never know the difference there either.


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## shigzeo

Quote: 





armaegis said:


> And even with high output impedance, most headphones exhibit _relatively_ flat impedance response so that isn't going to make much of a difference to the casual listener. Yeah there might be some phase differential and impulse effects too, but most will never know the difference there either.


 
  Indeed, most normal headphones of 80Ω and higher will exhibit relatively no artefacts at all. Low Ω headphones and earphones, however, are usually different stories, but still, for years, people have listened to amps and outputs that simply don't drive earphones well and raved about them. At times, I lose faith in our hobby. This new Explorer looks fascinating though.


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## Armaegis

I don't have much experience with the really low impedance headphones/iems, and I think those balanced armature ones have all sorts of wacky impedance curves, but again I have no experience there. The only headphone that I have heard palpable variance in frequency response was with the Senn HD595, which swings from something like 50 to 250 ohm impedance. With that one, an output impedance of 10-ish is noticeable. Upping to the Senn HD600 isn't very noticeable anymore.


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## shigzeo

Quote: 





armaegis said:


> I don't have much experience with the really low impedance headphones/iems, and I think those balanced armature ones have all sorts of wacky impedance curves, but again I have no experience there. The only headphone that I have heard palpable variance in frequency response was with the Senn HD595, which swings from something like 50 to 250 ohm impedance. With that one, an output impedance of 10-ish is noticeable. Upping to the Senn HD600 isn't very noticeable anymore.


 
  Indeed, I find few amps that can't sustain a good FR with the HD600. 300-600Ω seems to be a sweet spot as long as the headphone is sufficiently sensitive.


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## DKCon

OK, looks like mine arrive Monday.  If anyone is in the Washington DC area, send me a message.  Happy to show it off.
  I should have a pair of IE800s next week as well, man should be a killer match..


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## plakat

Nice thing, especially that it sports a lineout... which would make it a nice companion to the Lake People G109 I'm considering for home use. With the added benefit to use it standalone as a portable solution.
   
  I seriously doubt that it works with the iPad CCK as the power output of the iPad is limited to 20mA (starting with iOS5 if I remember that correctly). Constructions with a powered USB hub might work, but I guess thats too much hassle (and things to carry).


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## shigzeo

Quote: 





plakat said:


> Nice thing, especially that it sports a lineout... which would make it a nice companion to the Lake People G109 I'm considering for home use. With the added benefit to use it standalone as a portable solution.
> 
> I seriously doubt that it works with the iPad CCK as the power output of the iPad is limited to 20mA (starting with iOS5 if I remember that correctly). Constructions with a powered USB hub might work, but I guess thats too much hassle (and things to carry).


 
  The 20mA limit began in iOS 4 point something. 5 was more of the same. Too bad. External USB will certainly work.


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## cooperpwc

Quote: 





dkcon said:


> OK, looks like mine arrive Monday.  If anyone is in the Washington DC area, send me a message.  Happy to show it off.
> I should have a pair of IE800s next week as well, man should be a killer match..


 
   
  As a fellow IE800 lover (well, you will be soon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



), I look forward to your impressions!


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





zerodeefex said:


> I'm unsure of everyone else, but mine arrived at work and I don't have a potentiometer handy to measure this easily at my desk. I don't understand how this is a "no brainer" as it's not listed in any of the Meridian provided product literature. Only that review mentions that it's 16 ohms.


 
   
  Right... if anyone remembers early on in the DragonFly thread I raised this point quite a bit, to the point where a member made a measurement showing it to be rather high, I posted the results to CA, it irked Gordon Rankin and he weighed in claiming it was under 1 ohm and explained how the measurement was not done properly.  
   
  I'm listening to this with 16 ohm IEMs and am not under the impression there are high OE related issues but I'm not sure if I would necessarily be able to detect that.  I thought the DF had a high OE because I was comparing against an ODAC/O2 combo I had at the time and it seemed to be 'off' with my lower impedance IEMs/cans.  
   
  In any case, after maybe 8 hours of head time now I'd say this is a impressively high end unit.  I'm not sure if it's quite to the same level as my old AP2/Metrum Octave desktop setup I had, but it seems to play more in that ballpark than other portable units I've had.  Not sure if it's brain burn-in or the caps settling a bit but I'm not sensing the brittle high end this morning that I experienced out of the box.


----------



## carma143

In thinking of buying this. Lets say I have both an Android phone with the worst audio quality, and the other with the best audio quality out currently. With music outputed through them with this meridian Explorer, will my music sound the same through each?


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





carma143 said:


> In thinking of buying this. Lets say I have both an Android phone with the worst audio quality, and the other with the best audio quality out currently. With music outputed through them with this meridian Explorer, will my music sound the same through each?


 
   
  You're just using each device as a digital out, so the only differences would be down to whether the quality of the output is bit perfect, amount of jitter, emf, etc.  Probably in the domain of non-audible for most people esp. as this uses a fairly robust PS and async USB implementation.
   
  The bigger question is how are you going to supply power?  It seems to draw a significant amount.  The DF doesn't work with Android devices (that's why AQ is coming out with an Android specific version called the bumblebee) and the Meridian appears to draw significantly more.  Unless you have an outboard supply of some sort it's probably a no-go.  But I'd love to stand corrected on this, have a Nexus 4 myself.


----------



## cooperpwc

-


----------



## TheJesusGuy

Quote: 





carma143 said:


> In thinking of buying this. Lets say I have both an Android phone with the worst audio quality, and the other with the best audio quality out currently. With music outputed through them with this meridian Explorer, will my music sound the same through each?


 
  Yes, the signal doesn't even go through the integrated DAC/amp but this may be different with a phone.


----------



## Dsnuts

Ok so I am gonna jump on this band wagon. Just ordered.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





dsnuts said:


> Ok so I am gonna jump on this band wagon. Just ordered.


 
   
  Right on... I think you're going to be quite impressed.


----------



## bcwang

Quote: 





shigzeo said:


> The 20mA limit began in iOS 4 point something. 5 was more of the same. Too bad. External USB will certainly work.


 

 Has anyone actually tried the iPad CCK with a powered hub to see if it works?  The fact that it's not driverless with windows makes me wonder if it'll work with the iPad.


----------



## Dsnuts

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> Right on... I think you're going to be quite impressed.


 

 I read about these the day after I ordered my Audio GD NFB 15.32.. I was thinking about cancelling that order but you know what I will try that one out too..I am all about upgrading my source and I think both units will do just that. I am excited to try both for certain.


----------



## swmtnbiker

Quote: 





dsnuts said:


> Ok so I am gonna jump on this band wagon. Just ordered.


 
   
  Me too. Had to give it a spin. Mine will be here on Friday. Perfect for spending some quality time with it over the weekend.


----------



## Bones13

Just hooked mine up.  5 minutes in, and I considered it "thin" compared to my well broken in DragonFly.  Its getting better as I listen though.  Those big caps will take awhile I imagine.  I did not find much time related changes with the DACPort or the DragonFly.
   
  I will let it run in for a couple of days and try some listening testing Friday.
   
  In my opinion the DragonFly mashes the DACPort hands down coming from my laptop.  I am pretty sure its the ASync vs. AdaptiveSync of the DACPort products.  I do really like the volume control on the DACPort though.


----------



## vrln

Sent an email to Meridian asking for the output impedance. I see no other reason not to reply than the value being something they want to hide. Anything under 2 and I'll buy one the next day. Hoping for a reply soon. Hopefully it's just an oversight, the DragonFly specs don't include it either but the value is less than 1. Crosstalk and noise floor specs would be nice too, but output impedance is the critical one. Oh and as for that review mentioning 16, that's just the reviewer reading the official specs wrong. The power output is stated calculated at 16 ohms, that's not the spec many posters here are wondering about.

Other than that, I have to say I'm very impressed by the component choices Meridian has made from a bill of materials point of view. They are clearly taking a risk on this product as the XMOS chip is pretty expensive from what I've read. I'd be willing to bet margins are lower on this compared to the similarly priced DragonFly which was already a fairly low margin product in hifi market terms.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





vrln said:


> Hopefully it's just an oversight, the DragonFly specs don't include it either but the value is less than 1.


 
   
  Best of luck.  I couldn't even get that info from Steve Silberman (VP of Dev for AQ and the guy in charge of DF development), he appeared to genuinely not know.  It's a mystery to me why this is not considered an important spec considering how so many users will likely be using upmarket IEMs with this.


----------



## DanBa

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> You're just using each device as a digital out, so the only differences would be down to whether the quality of the output is bit perfect, amount of jitter, emf, etc.  Probably in the domain of non-audible for most people esp. as this uses a fairly robust PS and async USB implementation.
> 
> The bigger question is how are you going to supply power?  It seems to draw a significant amount.  The DF doesn't work with Android devices (that's why AQ is coming out with an Android specific version called the bumblebee) and the Meridian appears to draw significantly more.  Unless you have an outboard supply of some sort it's probably a no-go.  But I'd love to stand corrected on this, have a Nexus 4 myself.


 
   
  The DF does work with Android devices using USB Audio Recorder PRO.
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/1680#post_9151794
   
As long as the USB host is not enabled on the Nexus 4, it can't work with a USB peripheral like a standard USB DAC.
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/1170#post_8985601


----------



## telecaster

Ok ordered one, this is what I have been waiting for so long. Meridian always was leading in digital music playback since THE beginning of times. The co-founder of M is a psychoacoutical specialist and I always loved their sound, so this explorer should be the bomb!
  Also having a portable ultra high end solution. Will mate my X230 pretty well. grins...


----------



## Painterspal

Ordered mine! Will be here tomorrow, My speaker rig is dominated by Meridian 500 series gear and I've had them a long time now - big fan of what this company does.
   
  I'm going to use it to feed my Icon Audio HP8 from my laptop. Very interested to see how this stacks up against my Audio GD Ref 5.2 and NFB15.1. The latter is a much fairer comparison but my hopes are high - Meridian is a mainstream player of the first order and not the sort of company to mess up - I'm just surprised the price is so competitive.
   
  Very interested to hear if anyone tries this with a power conditioner like the iFi Micro - whether it adds anything.


----------



## Poimandres

When did you order it and from whom?


----------



## whereas

Quote: 





vrln said:


> Sent an email to Meridian asking for the output impedance. I see no other reason not to reply than the value being something they want to hide. Anything under 2 and I'll buy one the next day. Hoping for a reply soon. Hopefully it's just an oversight, the DragonFly specs don't include it either but the value is less than 1. Crosstalk and noise floor specs would be nice too, but output impedance is the critical one. *Oh and as for that review mentioning 16, that's just the reviewer reading the official specs wrong. The power output is stated calculated at 16 ohms, that's not the spec many posters here are wondering about.*
> 
> Other than that, I have to say I'm very impressed by the component choices Meridian has made from a bill of materials point of view. They are clearly taking a risk on this product as the XMOS chip is pretty expensive from what I've read. I'd be willing to bet margins are lower on this compared to the similarly priced DragonFly which was already a fairly low margin product in hifi market terms.


 
  Precisely why I was asking for the output impedance. Everyone was "correcting" me, saying that it's stated as 16, but it's clearly not - as you've explained here. Thanks.


----------



## shigzeo

Quote: 





bcwang said:


> Has anyone actually tried the iPad CCK with a powered hub to see if it works?  The fact that it's not driverless with windows makes me wonder if it'll work with the iPad.


 
  If it's driverless on OSX it will work on iPad. Any USB audio product that can be supplied enough power (and doesn't need drivers in OSX) will work with iPad.


----------



## telecaster

I'm pretty eager to see how the digital outputs will mate with my DSP speakers. The analogue section at the line output seems to be entry ticket to Meridian audiodome for my tube amp and more, as a bonus it has a headphone amp too! ^^


----------



## MatsudaMan

Quote: 





shigzeo said:


> If it's driverless on OSX it will work on iPad. Any USB audio product that can be supplied enough power (and doesn't need drivers in OSX) will work with iPad.


 
  The power that the iPad supplies is not enough to power the Meridian Explorer.  It will not work on iPad unless you were to use a powered USB hub and even then, it is not as simple as you say.  OSX is a completely different operating system than iOS.  Most all dacs will not work on an iPad...you gotta get your facts straight, bro.


----------



## McNikk

Quote: 





moonunit said:


> It probably will. It uses XMOS and works on OS X without drivers, which usually means it will work on Android. May likely require a powered hub though.


 
  That sounds good... except for the power part. Has anyone actually tested them with android yet?


----------



## shigzeo

Quote: 





matsudaman said:


> The power that the iPad supplies is not enough to power the Meridian Explorer.  It will not work on iPad unless you were to use a powered USB hub and even then, it is not as simple as you say.  OSX is a completely different operating system than iOS.  Most all dacs will not work on an iPad...you gotta get your facts straight, bro.


 
  I've not encountered a single DAC that will NOT work with iPad if fed enough power. If that means a powered outboard hub, then so be it. But every DAC (and I've tried now about a dozen) have worked. Driver-necessary DACs may be different. I've plugged into DAC after DAC and had NO trouble at all. As long as they get power. Battery-powered DACs are a bit different because some power their internal DAC chips via USB, some via internal batteries. Only then does there seem to be some difficulty, but that has in 100% of the cases I've encountered, been fixed with outboard power.


----------



## shigzeo

Quote: 





whereas said:


> Precisely why I was asking for the output impedance. Everyone was "correcting" me, saying that it's stated as 16, but it's clearly not - as you've explained here. Thanks.


 
  I'm waiting along with you. If I find one out in the open, I'll test it for you. I'm eager to know.


----------



## turokrocks




----------



## turokrocks

Any asio drivers for it? (no asio4all for me)
  And only the USB cable is supplied?


----------



## yugas

Hi, testing this now. 
First impressions are excellents. I'm using with my Hifiman HE-400,hd650 and Phonak Pfe 022.
Incredible detailed sound! Next week I will publish a full review on my Blog. Old&NewSound.blogspot


----------



## warrenpchi

Quote: 





yugas said:


> Hi, testing this now.  Incredible detailed sound!


 
   
  So so jelly...


----------



## shigzeo

Quote: 





yugas said:


> Hi, testing this now.
> First impressions are excellents. I'm using with my Hifiman HE-400,hd650 and Phonak Pfe 022.
> Incredible detailed sound! Next week I will publish a full review on my Blog. Old&NewSound.blogspot


 
  Looking forward to reading your review.


----------



## Bones13

An early report - MacBookPro - iTunes only - Senn Momentum - about 20 hours of burn in.  (music - all sorts, Ingrid Fliter to Sleigh Bells with all sorts of in between)
   
  Of course its a nice DAC/AMP....   Differences with the DragonFly so far : more "hifi" with much better "air" and soundstage, neutral, with no "bloom".  I really like what I am hearing.  This amp actually makes the emphasized bass of the Momentum show up.  I will switch to my AT ESW phones for another listen.  Currently I will probably leave the Momentum with the DragonFly, that was a pretty balanced setup.
   
  Wow, different phones, different sound.  My AT ESW10JPN continue to be my favorite portable headphones.  The bass is a good bit better with the Explorer than the DragonFly with these phones.  The major WOW is the midrange with this DAC/AMP and the AT phones.  My jazz is back.  Instruments are sharper, and the nice treble is not sibilant at all.  This will be my main travel set now.
   
  I still need to do some trials with my IEMS, and some trials with BitPerfect+iTunes, and some of the other players.


----------



## telecaster

That's what M is all about, sweet neutrality. You actually hear the music, not the gear.
  Quote: 





> Of course its a nice DAC/AMP....   Differences with the DragonFly so far : more "hifi" with much better "air" and soundstage, neutral, with no "bloom".  I really like what I am hearing.  This amp actually makes the emphasized bass of the Momentum show up.


----------



## nnotis

Has anyone compared this unit to the HRT Headstreamer or Microstreamer?


----------



## wfranklin

Just got mine a few minutes ago (a day early--what more could you ask for?).  Took about 5 minutes to unpack (a lot of protective plastic on the end caps and around the aluminum body), then installed the drivers, which I had downloaded earlier in the week.  Did all the optional settings "for best sound quality" as recommended in the setup guide.  Piece of cake (on Windows 7 PC).  I'm currently using MediaMonkey (about 27,000 files, primarily .wav, with optimized metadata--long project).  I was concerned with the volume level needed to drive my ALO-mod'd AKG K701's, but not to worry.  Comfortable volume level is at about 3.5 on the slider scale.  Improved bass over my MusicStreamer II right out of the box.  Listening to the HD Tracks download of Chick Corea/Gary Burton's "Hot House", a 24/96 file.  I can even hear the low-level mechanical squeaks on Burton's vibes!  As an earlier poster noted, "you hear the music".  Not having to spring for a separate amp (or haul my Woo WA6 from home) means more $$ for music!  I am very pleased; $300 well spent!


----------



## FlySweep

Ordered!


----------



## Poimandres

I just got an update from TTVJ and mine shipped out today. I should have it tomorrow.


----------



## gregeas

I picked up an Explorer in NYC yesterday at Stereo Exchange. Burning it in now. 
   
  I can confirm that it won't work on the iPad/CCK without a powered hub.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





gregeas said:


> I picked up an Explorer in NYC yesterday at Stereo Exchange.


 
   
  Ha, me too the day before.


----------



## bcwang

Quote: 





gregeas said:


> I picked up an Explorer in NYC yesterday at Stereo Exchange. Burning it in now.
> 
> I can confirm that it won't work on the iPad/CCK without a powered hub.


 

 Can you confirm that it does work with the iPad/CCK with a powered hub?


----------



## Painterspal

A very quick first impression. MacBook Pro running Fidelia>Explorer>Toxic Cables silver widow 3.5 jack to twin RCA > Icon Audio HP8 Mk2> HD800
   
  Set up a simple plug and play, no problems at all. I just had to adjust the Fidelia setting to the correct output - Meridian Explorer rather than built in and I got music straight away.
   
  Sound initially clean, very detailed, slightly lean, top end a tad over emphasized and bright, sound stage a little compressed. I left it to run for a couple of hours.
   
  Now I still notice the detail first but the overall balance is much more satisfactory, even after just a couple of hours, with the bottom end filled out more and the upper range toned down closer to what I'd expect to hear. Very dynamic and transparent presentation with a well defined, wide-ish sound stage and plenty of air around the instruments. Vivid and neutral are the words that comes to mind, there's nothing veiled or laid back at all about what I'm hearing, but all seems to be well controlled right across the sound spectrum. It's a bold presentation of the music - exciting - with very good dynamics and a very real sense of the instruments being played and, more importantly the _way_ they're being played.
   
  With more subtle, gentle music things are still good - very euphonic. Human voices are nicely presented. Very impressive with electronic music too. The combination with my tube amp seems very promising indeed. I can't imagine anyone being disappointed with what I'm hearing at the moment and, who know, it may well get better....


----------



## tgx78

I just received mine from the authorized Meridian dealer in Canada.
   
  Using PC > Foobar2000 > SoX upsampler (24/192) > WASAPI > Meridian Explorer > JVC FXZ-100
   
  So far sounds great! (only 30mins. in..) Bass is noticeably cleaner and more articulate over my previous DACs (HK3490 AKM, fiio e7, ele usb)


----------



## dan_can

Which Canadian dealer?


----------



## dan_can

Which Canadian dealer?


----------



## tgx78

Quote: 





dan_can said:


> Which Canadian dealer?


 
   
  Sound Hounds in Victoria (they just got them in stock yesterday and shipped out to me with express 1-day service)


----------



## TooPoor

Just heard from TTVJ that they're out of stock until Monday... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. With the seemingly glowing reviews I can see why! If you're on the fence, you might want to pull the trigger sooner than later. Very excited to get mine next week (hopefully).


----------



## Poimandres

Wow they had ample stock the day that they were released and new stock today and they are already sold out again.  I am glad mine will be here tomorrow.


----------



## gregeas

Quote: 





bcwang said:


> Can you confirm that it does work with the iPad/CCK with a powered hub?


 
  Not sure. I think I have a powered up here somewhere, but I haven't seen it in years. 
   
  Anyone know a good powered hub to buy?


----------



## cat6man

Just got back from Talk of the Town A/V in Allendale, NJ where I bought the first Explorer two days ago.  They still have them in stock and they do mail order also. 
   
  This afternoon, Ryan Donaher, Regional Sales Manager for Meridian was there demoing the Explorer and other Meridian AV toys.
  He was kind enough to answer Explorer related questions that had been brought up on this forum, so here goes:
   
  Q:  What is the current draw?
  A:  ~500mA
   
  Q:  Will it work with apple phones/tablets like the iPad with camera kit?
  A:   Not directly, since they cannot source 500mA.
   
  Q:  Will it work with apple phones/tablets and camera kit and a powered hub?
  A:   The powered hub should provide sufficient current.  It is unclear if the drivers are the same as iOS which works natively.
        (I guess folks with camera kit and power hubs can test this and report to the forum)
   
  Q:  Will it work with android powered devices?
  A:  This is not something that Meridian is pursuing directly, but if Android supports the appropriate USB class interface, it should work.
        (this is one I really care about.................someone able to test this yet???...........i don't have an android device yet)
   
  Q:  What is the impedance of the headphone output?
  A:   After checking the documentation that he had on his laptop, this was not available.  Ryan sent an email back to HQ with the    question and will forward the response to me.
   
  So that is it for now............time to play with mine.  I installed the windows driver on my laptop this morning and the explorer makes very nice sounds with my etymotics.  I next want to see if the headphone output is further improved with my little headamp or not.


----------



## Poimandres

Would you ask him what the impedance is of the line out? A lot of us will use it with an amp. I suspect it should be low.


----------



## cat6man

More random thoughts on the Meridian explorer.............and why I might conceivably need more than one.
   
  My application:  
  I bought this with the intent of using it as the DAC in my car stereo system, where the current Kenwood 9900HD internal dac is clearly outclassed by the iStreamer.  Next, I plan to ditch apple ipod touch as my source since I find them too frustratingly closed to innovation on our part.........onward to Android (assume it will work, and if not, someone will make it work in short order) or 'something else'.
   
  'Something else' just popped into my head while talking to Evan (Talk of the Town A/V) and Ryan (Meridian sales manager) this afternoon.  I was describing to them the architecture of my 'patio' system, which is a logitech Touch streaming from my home NAS, analog out to a Pelican box housing a computer power supply (+12V, +5V) and a car stereo (for amplification to stereostone speakers on the patio)..............and I stated that I was sure the Explorer would sound better than the analog out of the logitech touch.
  Then I remembered that someone had hacked the Logitech Touch so that it's USB input(!) could be used as a USB output(!!!!!).
  This had never been on my technology roadmap before but now it sounds like something worth pursuing.
   
  If I follow this path, I would hack the Logitech Touch to provide USB output to the Meridian, and then line out to the car stereo in the pelican box that drives the speaker stones.............now I'm  jazzed again to play with my toys to get better sound.
   
  So what about the car stereo system?  I've  been planning for a while to put a Logitech Touch into my car as well (just bought a used since they don't have them in stores anymore) and the plan was to use analog out of the Logitech into the AUX IN of the Kenwood, replacing an iPod==>iStreamer==>Kenwood that I had been using.  The last step, which I've been working on for the past week is getting a Squeezebox server into my car, but that looks very doable as the squeezebox server installation has now been ported to the Raspberry Pi, the $35 credit card sized computer.  
   
  So, this now suggests that the plan be modified to have the Raspberry Pi running squeezbox server, wired ethernet cable between Raspberry Pi and Logitech Touch, Logitech Touch hacked for USB output to Meridian Explorer with line out to Kenwood in dash.
   
  So I can see a use for an Explorer in my car system, in my patio system and when traveling on planes.  Since no one uses the car or patio system when I'm traveling, I can probably work with just 2 of these DACs
   
  Q:  Dad, when are you going to stop changing all the electronics?
  A:  Never, so you might as well get used to it.


----------



## cat6man

Well that was easier than I'd anticipated.  It turns out that the non-official app that gives the Logitech Touch 24/192 capability on spdif is the same app that turns on the USB output, so I already had the capability (but had never had a usb input to a DAC before).
   
  Hooked it up to Meridian Explorer and it just worked!  Red book, 24/96, even 24/172 samples I had downloaded for experimentation..............the 3 lights on the Meridian light up perfectly with the bit rate changes.  This is a winner.
   
  The  only thing I noticed here is that compared to USB from my W7 laptop, the volume out of the Logitech/Meridian combo is much lower, and at max volume setting on the Logitech, it was insufficient with the Etys.  I suspect there is a volume setting somewhere that I'm missing, probably in the logitech non-official, non-supported app.
   
  But this works, right out of the box (note:  no USB powered hub needed as the Logitech apparently has the juice to power the Meridian).
   
  Now to fix the volume issue and build a Raspberry Pi squeezebox server for the car.


----------



## FlySweep

> Originally Posted by *cat6man* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Q:  Will it work with android powered devices?
> A:  This is not something that Meridian is pursuing directly, but if Android supports the appropriate USB class interface, it should work.
> (this is one I really care about.................someone able to test this yet???...........i don't have an android device yet)


 
   
  I ordered the ME from TTVJ today.. I have a Galaxy S3 & OTG cable, so if someone doesn't get to it before me, I'll be able to confirm inter-operability as soon as it arrives (not sure exactly when that will be since it appears TTVJ is backordered & I haven't got a shipping notice yet).


----------



## cat6man

where is the 'onboard analog headphone amplifier' and how is it controlled?
   
  is this part of the USB specification?
   
  their website says:
   
Analogue volume control for headphone output, controlled from PC, control law modified to match connected OS.


----------



## MoonUnit

Quote: 





cat6man said:


> where is the 'onboard analog headphone amplifier' and how is it controlled?
> 
> is this part of the USB specification?
> 
> ...


 
   
  They haven't disclosed which IC they're using for this, but it's probably an SMD device underneath the headphone output caps. I spent about a half hour trying to match the power specs with TI's current set of combo digitally controlled analog volume pots with headphone driving capabilities but couldn't figure out which one it was. It might be the latest part from Maxim.


----------



## MooGoesTheCow

I just got mine today from TTVJ for my work computer + Denon AH-D2000s. Coming from using the headphone out of my laptop dock to this is pretty much the best thing ever. I had my headphones on all day, much to the chagrin of everyone trying to talk to me. They should know better than to come between a guy and his new hotness.


----------



## cat6man

Quote: 





moonunit said:


> They haven't disclosed which IC they're using for this, but it's probably an SMD device underneath the headphone output caps. I spent about a half hour trying to match the power specs with TI's current set of combo digitally controlled analog volume pots with headphone driving capabilities but couldn't figure out which one it was. It might be the latest part from Maxim.



  
 Thanks.  I googled a bit and it seems that the USB standard for audio devices has control for external volume, but it is up to the DAC to decide how to use that information (i.e. analog or digital manipulation of volume in DAC).  So in my PC, I can control the headphone volume with both the volume control in foobar and with the volume control of the laptop but I have no idea if the laptop controls are changing the digital bits to the DAC or just the analog gain in the DAC or both.
  
 With the logitech touch as the USB source, I have one volume control and at maximum volume it is the same level as when i configure it for fixed maximum output.  I assume this is all done digitally and that the logitech does not support external usb volume control.
  
 I think my next step is to go to the squeezebox forum and ask the folks who created the usb-output app if they can enable the usb external volume control somehow.


----------



## wfranklin

One of the things I noted during hookup to my home system last night, is that there was a lot of low-level noise coming through the line.  I was using a slightly longer (cheapo) USB cable than the stock cable that came with the ME, as well as a short-length mini-to-mini adapter to the mini socket to RCA cable that runs to my preamp (DeHavilland Ultraverv).  I"ve got an Audioquest Carbon USB on order (supposed to be here later today).  Hopefully the higher quality (better shielded) cable and some experimentation with cable routing will help clear this up.  Most of my listening is fairly near-field, so the noise is obvious during low-level musical passages.  Overall SQ out of the ME continues to be exemplary.  No fatigue, even at high listening levels.  24/192 Ellington '65 sounded great--clean, individual instruments discernable with no smearing, and a good sense of soundstage depth.


----------



## swmtnbiker

Mine arrived yesterday and I'm experiencing noise issues as well with the Meridian's analog out connected to an external amp. Looks like it's time to play this weekend to see what the problem might be.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

All business packaging. It may make an appearance at the SF Head-Fi meet this Sunday. Maybe....


----------



## zilch0md




----------



## Poimandres

Quote: 





swmtnbiker said:


> Mine arrived yesterday and I'm experiencing noise issues as well with the Meridian's analog out connected to an external amp. Looks like it's time to play this weekend to see what the problem might be.


 
  I am not hearing any noise?  Would you please elaborate.


----------



## turokrocks

http://www.audiostream.com/content/meridian-explorer-usb-dac


----------



## Poimandres

I purchased the lifetime gold version of MediaMonkey a few years ago and decided to install it on my a fresh format instead of foobar.  I enabled that wasapi option however I have not used MM much and was wondering if I should change any wasapi settings.
   
  Out of the box this thing is very impressive, the top end will hopefully settle down as others have noted.


----------



## Bostonears

wfranklin said:


> One of the things I noted during hookup to my home system last night, is that there was a lot of low-level noise coming through the line.


 
   


swmtnbiker said:


> Mine arrived yesterday and I'm experiencing noise issues as well with the Meridian's analog out connected to an external amp. Looks like it's time to play this weekend to see what the problem might be.


 
  Is the noise constant in pitch and volume, or does it vary with activity on the PC or any other factor? Do you also hear the noise with cans directly connected to the Meridian's headphone output jack?


----------



## Poimandres

Too bad there isn't an option for a black ME.  The ME pairs very nice with the portaphile 627 and the Heir Audio 8.A.  After some burn in I will A-B the ME with the LX however I think the LX will be going back.


----------



## Poimandres

My serial number is MA006 and the last digit is a letter.
  Quote: 





hifiguy528 said:


> All business packaging. It may make an appearance at the SF Head-Fi meet this Sunday. Maybe....


----------



## wfranklin

Quote: 





bostonears said:


> Is the noise constant in pitch and volume, or does it vary with activity on the PC or any other factor? Do you also hear the noise with cans directly connected to the Meridian's headphone output jack?


 
  It is independent of music volume; with no music playing (but preamp volume at listening level), there is noise on the line.  I tried playing with cable positioning a bit, but was constrained by cable length.  The ME was located just behind the screen of my laptop, and just in front of the tube preamp.  Amazon sent me the wrong damn cable (ordered A to mini-B, Amazon stock label on box indicated A to mini-B; cable is A to B.  Time to head to BestBuy to see what they've got in stock (if anything). I think the noise issue can be handled by using better cables and keeping the routing away from the laptop.  Note that I don't have this problem at all when listening to headphones; this is strictly when multiple cables are being used between the laptop and the preamp (laptop - USB - ME - mini phone plug to mini phone plug cable - mini phone socket to RCA - preamp).  As I mentioned earlier, these were cheap (not audiophile grade) cables.


----------



## swmtnbiker

Quote:


poimandres said:


> I am not hearing any noise?  Would you please elaborate.


 
  Quote:


bostonears said:


> Is the noise constant in pitch and volume, or does it vary with activity on the PC or any other factor? Do you also hear the noise with cans directly connected to the Meridian's headphone output jack?


 
   
  The noise is constant, dirty background static that is most apparent with no music playing and the volume pot on the amp turned up beyond normal listening levels. Yes, it does increase with volume. I currently have an Arcam rDAC (USB) and CIAudio VDA1 (Toslink) on my desk as well and neither of them exhibit the problem. Two different well-made 3.5mm to stereo cables between the DAC and the amp do not change the situation and neither does switching USB cables or USB ports. I even plugged the Meridian into a powered USB hub. Same result. It's possible that I have a defective unit, but as I mentioned earlier I haven't had the time to thoroughly test the situation. That happens tomorrow.


----------



## Poimandres

And the amp turned up beyond normal listening levels?  Have you tried directly into an amp from the lineout?  I hear no noise but only use the lineout not the headphone jack.


----------



## Bostonears

wfranklin said:


> It is independent of music volume; with no music playing (but preamp volume at listening level), there is noise on the line.  I tried playing with cable positioning a bit, but was constrained by cable length.  The ME was located just behind the screen of my laptop, and just in front of the tube preamp.  Amazon sent me the wrong damn cable (ordered A to mini-B, Amazon stock label on box indicated A to mini-B; cable is A to B.  Time to head to BestBuy to see what they've got in stock (if anything). I think the noise issue can be handled by using better cables and keeping the routing away from the laptop.  Note that I don't have this problem at all when listening to headphones; this is strictly when multiple cables are being used between the laptop and the preamp (laptop - USB - ME - mini phone plug to mini phone plug cable - mini phone socket to RCA - preamp).  As I mentioned earlier, these were cheap (not audiophile grade) cables.


 
  As you surmised, that's probably the interconnects between the Meridian and the preamp picking EMI from a poorly shielded USB cable or from the laptop itself.
   


swmtnbiker said:


> The noise is constant, dirty background static that is most apparent with no music playing and the volume pot on the amp turned up beyond normal listening levels. Yes, it does increase with volume. I currently have an Arcam rDAC (USB) and CIAudio VDA1 (Toslink) on my desk as well and neither of them exhibit the problem. Two different well-made 3.5mm to stereo cables between the DAC and the amp do not change the situation and neither does switching USB cables or USB ports. I even plugged the Meridian into a powered USB hub. Same result. It's possible that I have a defective unit, but as I mentioned earlier I haven't had the time to thoroughly test the situation. That happens tomorrow.


 
  Sounds like it merits a call to Meridian.


----------



## Aerocraft67

Just got my Explorer a few hours ago (from Audio Salon in Santa Monica; highly recommended). I've had a Dragonfly for a week or so. One thing I confirmed immediately is that you can feed headphones and an amp/powered speakers simultaneously via the two output jacks. That's an awfully nice feature for a desktop rig with both headphones and speakers, for example. You don't have to swap between one 3.5 mm connection (as with the Dragonfly), not to mention RCA jacks (as with a Modi). You can even listen to both at the same time, not that you'd want to, but it makes it really easy to toggle listening between 'phones and speakers. The iDAC, for instance, has both headphone and RCA output ports, but you can't run them simultaneously, at least not correctly, I think. Of course, to actually implement this on the Explorer, you'll have to rely on the Explorer's built-in amp and do without a stand-alone headamp, since the headamp would require the use of the same analog out as the powered speakers. Otherwise you're back to swapping cables connecting with the non-headphone out. Even if you assume that DACs are hard to pick apart on sound, this functionality seems to distinguish the Explorer. 
   
  The other early observation is that the Explorer holds up better than the Dragonfly at high volume. By my calculations and listening, the Dragonfly delivers a bit more output power into my HD-650s. But the Dragonfly sound falls apart on most recordings below max volume, and can be fatiguing even modestly above 50%, even though the loudness level is otherwise reasonable between 50% and 75%. The Dragonfly sound gets unpleasantly harsh just before I reach the threshold of discomfort induced by volume alone. The Explorer doesn't go quite as loud, but seems to remain listenable louder than the Dragonfly, closer to my maximum loudness threshold, and I can reach that threshold on many recordings. On other recordings, I could see the merit in an external headamp to get up to eleven, so to speak. Running each DAC through an amp may level this playing field, of course, but part of the value proposition here is that you're getting a headamp in the package, and in the case of the Explorer, one you can use alongside the line out. Accordingly, listening at milder levels also narrows the performance gap, but the Explorer has yet to induce any fatigue. 
   
  Any comparative evaluation beyond that at this early stage (and probably at later stages) I'd attribute almost entirely to expectation bias. What I hear so far does confirm those expectations, that the Dragonfly is lighter and leaner than the Explorer, that the Explorer delivers more of the musical whole than the sum of the parts, whereas the Dragonfly picks them apart. I even detect better imaging through the Explorer, which is not something I recall reading about beforehand. I'd probably like something fat and rich like the iDAC even better, but don't feel compelled to go there while listening to the Explorer. And I tend to believe that you want the DAC and amp to be neutral and transparent, whilst seeking sonic character via speakers (or even EQ, if necessary).
   
  Thanks to shuffle, I've cycled through choral, opera, and string ensemble while writing this, and it's just gorgeous. Not that the Public Enemy and indie/classic rock crush tests beforehand weren't. It's very early, but I don't see the Dragonfly winning this battle for my listening.


----------



## Poimandres

I just tried the headphone out and I get no noise.  I even turned the volume in windows (which I think is the correct way to set the volume) up to 75 and still nothing.  Anything over 50 really kills my ears this little thing can certainly feed the 8a's directly.  Up over 60 was really punishing my ear drums they are still ringing.


----------



## bcwang

Quote: 





poimandres said:


> I just tried the headphone out and I get no noise.  I even turned the volume in windows (which I think is the correct way to set the volume) up to 75 and still nothing.  Anything over 50 really kills my ears this little thing can certainly feed the 8a's directly.  Up over 60 was really punishing my ear drums they are still ringing.


 

 Anyone try the headphone out with really sensitive IEMs like the se530/535 or ES3X and can detect any hiss?


----------



## swmtnbiker

Quote: 





poimandres said:


> And the amp turned up beyond normal listening levels?  Have you tried directly into an amp from the lineout?  I hear no noise but only use the lineout not the headphone jack.


 
   
  Well, I'm using the line out on the Explorer, of course. Why would anyone want to connect the amped headphone output on this device to an amp? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 You must have missed my first post on the subject.


----------



## Poimandres

Indeed I must have I thought you were referring to the amp within the explorer on the headphone out.


----------



## swmtnbiker

Quote: 





poimandres said:


> Indeed I must have I thought you were referring to the amp within the explorer on the headphone out.


 
   
  I haven't yet tried the Explorer's on-board amp, but that's on my troubleshooting list for sure.


----------



## wfranklin

In my case, switching from cheapo USB and mini-RCA solutions to AudioQuest Evergreen (both the USB A to mini-B and 3.5mm to RCA) cleaned things right up.  Low level noise is gone gone gone....


----------



## swmtnbiker

I'm using comparable cables and the Arcam rDAC is exhibiting none of the USB noise I'm hearing in the Explorer. Granted I'm using different USB cables, but I've tried a half-dozen different ones with the Meridian from crap to great with zero effect on the noise issue. I'm really beginning to believe that I simply have a lemon.


----------



## cat6man

No noise here on headphone or line out.
  I run a Logitech Touch USB out ==> Explorer ==> Pico Slim ==> Etymotic er4
  No PC involved here at all and no noise I can ascertain.


----------



## attilahun

Really hope the low level noise isn't an issue, I want to like this dac and buy one for my active desktop speakers.


----------



## Aerocraft67

No noise on mine via directly connected HD-650s or via cheap Logitech powered desktop speakers. Sounds like Pippel got a bad specimen. Bummer.


----------



## swmtnbiker

Could very well be. Just tested the headphone out with some Senn Momentums and it's dead quiet. It appears that only the line out is as issue with mine. Bummer indeed.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Unboxing video is now live. Take a look.


----------



## Painterspal

Quote: 





wfranklin said:


> It is independent of music volume; with no music playing (but preamp volume at listening level), there is noise on the line.  I tried playing with cable positioning a bit, but was constrained by cable length.  The ME was located just behind the screen of my laptop, and just in front of the tube preamp.  Amazon sent me the wrong damn cable (ordered A to mini-B, Amazon stock label on box indicated A to mini-B; cable is A to B.  Time to head to BestBuy to see what they've got in stock (if anything). I think the noise issue can be handled by using better cables and keeping the routing away from the laptop.  Note that I don't have this problem at all when listening to headphones; this is strictly when multiple cables are being used between the laptop and the preamp (laptop - USB - ME - mini phone plug to mini phone plug cable - mini phone socket to RCA - preamp).  As I mentioned earlier, these were cheap (not audiophile grade) cables.


 
   
  Quote: 





swmtnbiker said:


> Quote:
> Quote:
> 
> The noise is constant, dirty background static that is most apparent with no music playing and the volume pot on the amp turned up beyond normal listening levels. Yes, it does increase with volume. I currently have an Arcam rDAC (USB) and CIAudio VDA1 (Toslink) on my desk as well and neither of them exhibit the problem. Two different well-made 3.5mm to stereo cables between the DAC and the amp do not change the situation and neither does switching USB cables or USB ports. I even plugged the Meridian into a powered USB hub. Same result. It's possible that I have a defective unit, but as I mentioned earlier I haven't had the time to thoroughly test the situation. That happens tomorrow.


 
   
  Have you eliminated the possibility that it may be a ground loop problem?
   
  Connected to my tube amp, with no music playing and the volume right up beyond normal listening levels, I can hear mains noise - a nasty kind of humming buzzing hash. It disappears immediately if I disconnect the mains power supply from the laptop or if I use the headphone out, so I'm pretty sure it's caused by a ground loop issue. It could also just be the dirty source power supply, in my case to the laptop, but I think it more likely a ground loop is to blame. In my case it isn't audible at normal listening levels but it may have a subtle impact on the sound - the blackness of the background for example.
   
  Sadly my tube amp is particularly good at picking up this effect. With my Audio GD Reference 5.2 DAC it is even worse, but that's ac powered so you'd probably expect that. With the Audio GD, if I use the XLR out to a different amp, again there's no hum - pretty much exactly as you'd expect with a ground loop. Obviously with the ME you don't have that option.
   
  I doubt the Meridian is more susceptible than other equipment to this effect, and it's possible that it will show itself in some rigs but not others, for no immediately apparent reason.


----------



## Paul Meakin

For those of you that have desktop rigs too, how well does the Explorer stack up?
   
  I'm strongly considering buying one, but I have been disappointed with portable DACs before, i.e. the original Algorhythm Solo, which while not bad just fell short of my expected standards after having had a good turntable setup for a very long time. The Algorythm just didn't quite get the timing and rhythm correct.


----------



## swmtnbiker

Quote: 





painterspal said:


> Have you eliminated the possibility that it may be a ground loop problem?
> 
> Connected to my tube amp, with no music playing and the volume right up beyond normal listening levels, I can hear mains noise - a nasty kind of humming buzzing hash. It disappears immediately if I disconnect the mains power supply from the laptop or if I use the headphone out, so I'm pretty sure it's caused by a ground loop issue. It could also just be the dirty source power supply, in my case to the laptop, but I think it more likely a ground loop is to blame. In my case it isn't audible at normal listening levels but it may have a subtle impact on the sound - the blackness of the background for example.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I doubt it's a ground loop. As I've mentioned previously my other two DACs (one of which is connected to the same computer via USB) do NOT have this problem. A ground loop would likely manifest itself across gear, particularly across USB connected gear. The issue is present with the Explorer, however, when connected to all three of my amps - Lyr, Crack, and Soloist. I built my computer myself and while the PS or MB certainly can't be ruled out, no other audio gear I've ever connected to the system has been problematic. All evidence points to the Explorer being the guilty party here.


----------



## swmtnbiker

Quote: 





paul meakin said:


> For those of you that have desktop rigs too, how well does the Explorer stack up?
> 
> I'm strongly considering buying one, but I have been disappointed with portable DACs before, i.e. the original Algorhythm Solo, which while not bad just fell short of my expected standards after having had a good turntable setup for a very long time. The Algorythm just didn't quite get the timing and rhythm correct.


 
   
  Connected via line out to a good amp it holds up quite well IMO. Compared to my VDA1 and rDAC, I'd say that I definitely prefer the Explorer to the Arcam but don't like it as much as the CIAudio piece.


----------



## DoomForce

What are your thoughts on the device's amp guys? I noticed a member before using a pico slim after the line-out, is that really worth it, or just a personal preference to the pico amping signature?


----------



## dcginc

Self powered hub
   
  I wonder if this would work in the iPad cck chain. States 500ma output and I read above meridian rep saying ME needs 500Ma. 
   
  Thoughts
   
  http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/products/accessories/usb_hubs/cph420p.html?selectedTabId=overview&imageI=#tab-box


----------



## zilch0md

A $199 cure?
   
  http://ifi-audio.com/en/iUSB.html
   
  http://www.audiostream.com/content/ifi-iusbpower-taking-audioquest-draginfly-dac-notch


----------



## swmtnbiker

Spending an additional $200 to clean up the power for a $300 DAC ? That is so Head-fi.


----------



## Poimandres

$300 dac that hits well above its price.


----------



## swmtnbiker

I agree that it sounds good, but if the noise issue some people have been experiencing is design-related then the solution would be for Meridian to address it, not throw a couple more Franklins at the problem and hope for the best.


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> A cure?
> 
> http://ifi-audio.com/en/iUSB.html
> 
> http://www.audiostream.com/content/ifi-iusbpower-taking-audioquest-draginfly-dac-notch


 
  Where can we buy the ifi iusb, online?


----------



## swmtnbiker

Looks like it's a crap shoot depending on what country you live in. No direct sales and they don't distribute to any well-known online retailers:
   
http://ifi-audio.com/en/sales.html


----------



## Aerocraft67

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Where can we buy the ifi iusb, online?


 
   
  Not as easy a question to answer as it should be. Here is one source. Looks like you'll have to wait on a dual-headed cable to go with it, but you can reserve one now for a $100 deposit on an undetermined price!
   
  Dubious availability was one thing that steered me away from iFi. iFi's Facebook page says available on Amazon in the U.K., but not U.S. This site linked above had "available January 20th" up from December until February or so. Even in the home country, locals report long wait times:

   Quote: 





bedlam inside said:


> I got my iDAC, iUSB and iCAN in late November.
> 
> I ordered them directly from the iFi/AMR people in the UK at the Audio Show in September where I heard the whole set! Some waiting time. I nearly cancelled my order!
> 
> That said, other than the delay in delivery, I have been really happy with the results.


----------



## bobeau

Just out of curiosity, have you guys played with a variety of usb cables?
   
  I was thinking about picking up a Moon Audio Blue Dragon.  I'm somewhat dubious to their effect and I'm not looking to start a war, just want to see if people have tried out upmarket cables and experienced a nice audible improvement.  An outboard PS is too much to lug for me.


----------



## Aerocraft67

Quote: 





swmtnbiker said:


> Spending an additional $200 to clean up the power for a $300 DAC ? That is so Head-fi.


 
   
  Quote: 





poimandres said:


> $300 dac that hits well above its price.


 
   
  Yeah, a $200 upgrade to computer audio is pretty modest in absolute terms, and you can look at it as a $500 DAC/amp package, which remains at the top end of the "budget" range, and probably remains a very good value. And you get two independently upgradable modules, which affords some flexibility. And you can use the iUSBPower with other devices. But a 67% increase in investment for a power tweak is harder to rationalize.


----------



## bcwang

swmtnbiker said:


> I doubt it's a ground loop. As I've mentioned previously my other two DACs (one of which is connected to the same computer via USB) do NOT have this problem. A ground loop would likely manifest itself across gear, particularly across USB connected gear. The issue is present with the Explorer, however, when connected to all three of my amps - Lyr, Crack, and Soloist. I built my computer myself and while the PS or MB certainly can't be ruled out, no other audio gear I've ever connected to the system has been problematic. All evidence points to the Explorer being the guilty party here.




I once had a buzz coming from a dac/amp combo that didn't appear in my other dac/amp separates when swapped in position using the exact same cabling. I thought it was defective or sucked until another person tried it in their setup and it was silent. Anyway, after much debugging I found out the buzz was coming from it being near the cordless headset base a foot away from where my equipment lay. Somehow my other equipment was not susceptible to the effects of that cordless base. 

So I'd suggest try moving the explorer around, away from other electronics and see if it changes the buzz or makes it go away. If it starts changing at all by moving it around, then it is probably some sort of airborne interference. You may also want to try keeping all cables away from other electronics as it may be coupled in through the cables.


----------



## markm1

Quote: 





paul meakin said:


> And another review; there seem to be a lot of world's firsts on this one...
> 
> http://www.tonepublications.com/macro/meridian-audios-explorer/


 
  Glad to see this posted. Last month, a salesman in a home theater store mentioned that Meridian was coming out with a portable DAC/Amp. I had just bought my first set of cans. I've just bought the Asgard 2 as my first dedicated amp. I do a fair amount of listening to an Ipod w/ my Grado 225i that sound pretty good unammped. Not sure what I'll feel my needs are in the future, but I'm going to watch any of your comments posted here with interest.


----------



## gregeas

Couple of notes now that I've had the Explorer running for a couple of days. 
   
  * No hiss or hum whatsoever with my JH16s. 
  * The Explorer plays in integer mode in Audirvana, which is cool 
  * No problems playing my growing collection of high-res m4a files sourced from HDtracks. I'm finally satisfied with the availability of high-res music that suits my tastes.
  * The only issue is that I can't get albums to loop multiples times in iTunes/Audirvana. Not sure why, but I can't blame the Explorer for this.  
  * Looking forward to the new Thom Yorke album next week... Should be a good match for this system.
  * Overall, sound quality is all I could hope for in a compact portable system.


----------



## bobeau

Cool little trick to try on OSX... you can force upsampling any output on the machine (ie. streaming, which I tend to do alot of with MOG) by using Audio Midi setup with the Explorer plugged in.  I pump it up to 192k and the Explorer has all 3 lights going.  I can hear a pretty audible difference doing this - tighter, leaner, more focused, air, etc.  I think it's a pretty worthy thing to check out it you don't have high res material you're listening to or an audio player with a good upsampler built-in.


----------



## Painterspal

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> A $199 cure?
> 
> http://ifi-audio.com/en/iUSB.html
> 
> http://www.audiostream.com/content/ifi-iusbpower-taking-audioquest-draginfly-dac-notch


 
   
  Has anyone tried it with the Explorer?


----------



## swmtnbiker

Quote: 





bcwang said:


> I once had a buzz coming from a dac/amp combo that didn't appear in my other dac/amp separates when swapped in position using the exact same cabling. I thought it was defective or sucked until another person tried it in their setup and it was silent. Anyway, after much debugging I found out the buzz was coming from it being near the cordless headset base a foot away from where my equipment lay. S*omehow my other equipment was not susceptible to the effects of that cordless base.*
> 
> So I'd suggest try moving the explorer around, away from other electronics and see if it changes the buzz or makes it go away. If it starts changing at all by moving it around, then it is probably some sort of airborne interference. You may also want to try keeping all cables away from other electronics as it may be coupled in through the cables.


 
   
  Another way to look at the statement I bolded and underlined above is that somehow the piece of equipment that WAS susceptible to the RF emission from your cordless headset base wasn't properly shielded, which I would classify as a design flaw, and your other gear was shielded properly. As for moving the Explorer around, keeping cables clear, etc., etc., all of that has already been tried to no effect. This ain't exactly my first rodeo, pilgrim.


----------



## Bones13

Using the Meridian with a Wireworld Ultraviolet 0.5m (~$50) cable from my MacBookPro - sounds great, No buzz.
   
  I'm not sold on much differences with USB cables with the following distinctions :
   
  1) A USB cable without the power wire (or disabled) (Of course that requires the DAC to have its own power input)
  2) A USB cable that has separate digital and power cables (as mentioned above, with a separate power supply going to the USB plug)
  3) A USB cable that separated the power and digital wires. (The flat cable that I use fits this category)
   
  There are some issues with the digital signal bouncing and reflecting within the wire.  This seems to be affected by cable length, and wire shape + composition.  This is the part that the higher priced cables are hitting at.
   
  I can tell a small difference with my flat cable vs the generic USB cabling.  I use the same cable for my music server > SPDIF converter.


----------



## fuzzyash

the problem i see with the ifi products is that from a computer to headphones, you have to get the dac and amp separately, which makes it a much bigger setup at roughly twice the price of the meridian, which is an all in one


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





bones13 said:


> Using the Meridian with a Wireworld Ultraviolet 0.5m (~$50) cable from my MacBookPro - sounds great, No buzz.
> 
> 3) A USB cable that separated the power and digital wires. (The flat cable that I use fits this category)


 
   
  Thanks for the feedback.
   
  I'm pretty much of the same mind.  I also have an Ultraviolet that I used with my AP2 (same theory, creating distance between power and data).  I honestly had trouble telling the difference but I also had it feeding an AQVOX ps.  I haven't really played with others so it remains a theory for me.


----------



## Aerocraft67

Quote: 





fuzzyash said:


> the problem i see with the ifi products is that from a computer to headphones, you have to get the dac and amp separately, which makes it a much bigger setup at roughly twice the price of the meridian, which is an all in one


 
   
  The iFi iDAC has an integrated headphone amp, so it's directly comparable to Explorer, and has the same price. iFi also makes a dedicated headphone amp, the iCan. As well as the iUSBPower. Were you to run the table with iFi, you'd have $750 invested in three modular components that you can subsequently upgrade or mix/match separately, which is not terribly bad. By comparison, a Schiit Asgard 2 amp with Bifrost SPDIF DAC will set you back $600, which is $50 more than the iDAC+iCan.


----------



## Poimandres

I thought this was a thread for the Meridian Explorer. 

I just ordered the ultraviolet .5m for the ME. Looking forward to it.


----------



## Aerocraft67

Quote: 





poimandres said:


> I thought this was a thread for the Meridian Explorer.


 
   
  Obviously.


----------



## Poimandres

Obviously. So why don't we stick to the ME?


----------



## Aerocraft67

Are we not?


----------



## Poimandres

Maybe you should reread your last few posts. 

I am curious if anyone has used any premium usb cables other than the ultraviolet with the Explorer. As mentioned earlier I know that there are at least 2 different schools of thought on the effect of sound quality however it appears that the build quality and ergonomics would be better.


----------



## meat01

Quote: 





> I am curious if anyone has used any premium usb cables other than the ultraviolet with the Explorer.


 
   
  This thread is for the Explorer not USB cables 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Aerocraft67

Quote: 





poimandres said:


> Maybe you should reread your last few posts.


 
   
  Well, you've made two passive-aggressive statements about the thread topic and now one about my last few posts, so I guess that's the closest you'll come to stating what the problem is. My last post before your first statement about the thread topic (posts #192 and #193, respectively) directly referenced the Explorer, which I own, and about which I've offered thoughtful commentary previously in this thread.
   
  I encourage you to take a more accommodating attitude about what constitutes an on-topic contribution to a product thread, which absolutely includes discussion of like alternatives and accessory equipment, which is what my last few posts have been about. I also assert those contributions are more productive than declaring that the Explorer "hits above its price." I think the cliché that you're looking for is "punches above its weight."


----------



## Poimandres

Again we keep moving off topic and by continuing in this manner I am enabling you to derail this thread. Opinions vary and I stated my opinion that the ME hits above its price, no cliche needed although thanks for your insight. If you would like to discuss this further please feel free to pm me.

Looking forward to comparisons with the ODAC and even the ifi as I enjoyed the sound from the dragonfly. Does anyone know which dac is in the ifi, is it the 9023 that is shared by the odac and dragonfly?


----------



## jacknight

Quote: 





poimandres said:


> Again we keep moving off topic and by continuing in this manner I am enabling you to derail this thread. Opinions vary and I stated my opinion that the ME hits above its price, no cliche needed although thanks for your insight. If you would like to discuss this further please feel free to pm me.
> 
> Looking forward to comparisons with the ODAC and even the ifi as I enjoyed the sound from the dragonfly. Does anyone know which dac is in the ifi, is it the 9023 that is shared by the odac and dragonfly?


 
   
  have you compared ME with dacport LX?


----------



## Aerocraft67

Quote: 





poimandres said:


> I am enabling you to derail this thread.


 
   
  Now you're just yanking my chain.


----------



## zilch0md

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> Just out of curiosity, have you guys played with a variety of usb cables?
> 
> I was thinking about picking up a Moon Audio Blue Dragon.  I'm somewhat dubious to their effect and I'm not looking to start a war, just want to see if people have tried out upmarket cables and experienced a nice audible improvement.  An outboard PS is too much to lug for me.


 
   
*In the spirit of getting the most out of what seems to be a wonderful new portable DAC from a company that has tremendous credibility, I want to answer bobeau's question...*
   
  I am so impressed with my Moon Audio Blue Dragon that I have, until now, avoided posting _anything_ about it for fear of carrying on so wildly I would lose credibility.  I'm going to leave it at that, except to say that I've got four cheap USB cables, two that came with CEntrance products, and two run-of-the-mill USB cables, none of which come close to sounding as good as the Moon Audio Blue Dragon.  I honestly believe the USB cable was _the_ last weak link in my audio chain, that once upgraded, released every other component  to its full potential.
   
  WAV on SD cards (not HDD) > Windows 7 > CEntrance Universal Driver > Foobar > Moon Audio Blue Dragon > CEntrance DACmini CX > Audioquest Golden Gate interconnect > Burson Soloist > Toxic Cables' Silver Poison > LCD-2 rev.1 or Beyerdynamic T1   (with everything powered by a Tripp-Lite LC1200 Line Conditioner)
   
  Lastly, I had held out on buying an expensive _digital_ cable, really out of ignorance, because it didn't make sense that a cable could _corrupt_ a stream of 1's and 0's, but  what I had missed was that _a cable can corrupt the timing of a stream of 1's and 0's._
   
   
  Here's an excerpt from a Galen Carol Audio page, on why USB cables can make a sonic difference (in the absence of error-correcting protocols):
   
  Quote: 





> IT’S NOT JUST ONES AND ZEROS, IT’S THE TIMING!
> 
> There is a fundamental difference between the transfer of computer data and digital audio signals. Computers are able to transfer digital data without loss, because the data moves in the robust form of blocks, which do not depend on specific timing between the sending and receiving devices. However, digital audio signals are continuous streams of data, which are quite fragile, since the digital processor must remain perfectly locked onto the timing of the signal to avoid data losses.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Ironically, instead of buying the $99 1-meter Wireworld Starlight cable advertised at Galen Carol, I ordered the $100 1-meter Moon Audio Blue Dragon, in part because of this seemingly over-the-top review by Andy Schaub of Postive Feedback. (When you read stuff like this, you start wondering what part logic plays in selecting a cable): 
   
   


> [size=small]...the Blue Dragon USB made the vibraphones ring like magic and there was not the slightest trace of harshness to the sound at all. I found it musically very involving and often found myself surprised by the strike of the mallet on the vibes as if they were sitting in my living room itself.[/size]
> 
> [size=small]The more it played, the more it opened up and the piano took on a lovely sense of treble extension.[/size]


 
   
   
   
  I'll let Andy Schaub stick his neck out with poetic commentary while I wrap this up by adding that I believe a good USB cable, just like a good headphone cable, can't really shine if there's something else in the component chain holding everything back.  My chain still has room for improvement, but it's certainly good enough for me to have been _startled_ by the impact of  a Moon Audio Blue Dragon USB cable.   I really didn't want to go here, but rather than end this with no description of sonic improvements, I'll say this:  Everything is improved - clarity, dynamics, imaging, naturalness of timbre, bass pitch discrimination, everything - I cannot identify a trait that has not improved.  There, I've gone and done it.  I can only conclude that my other USB cables were causing a_ lot _of signal-destroying jitter and I never had a clue what I was missing!
   
When I had previously upgraded a dual RCA interconnect that runs between the DAC and the amp to an Audioquest Golden Gate, not their most expensive, to be sure, I heard no improvement whatsoever - money down the drain. That's not the case with this USB cable upgrade.  No one could be more surprised than I was.  I was a huge skeptic going in, but my ears have won me over.
   





   
Mike
   
(Edit:  Updated the component chain to include the interconnect cable and add mention of the Tripp-Lite line conditioner.)


----------



## zilch0md

Quote: 





aerocraft67 said:


> Yeah, a $200 upgrade to computer audio is pretty modest in absolute terms, and you can look at it as a $500 DAC/amp package, which remains at the top end of the "budget" range, and probably remains a very good value. And you get two independently upgradable modules, which affords some flexibility. And you can use the iUSBPower with other devices. But a 67% increase in investment for a power tweak is harder to rationalize.


 
   
  When you consider that the DACport LX has five internal power supplies - all to manage the power coming from the USB port - and that I personally have never found any other USB-powered DAC to be nearly as invulnerable to power issues as the DACport LX (including the Stoner Acoustics UD100, the JDS Labs Objective DAC, and the Audioquest Dragonfly) -AND- when you consider all the hoops CEntrance jumps through to cleanup and manage the power coming in from an AC outlet to their DACmini CX, where they are essentially re-manufacturing the power, with galvanic isolation and all kinds of other tricks to produce clean audio...
   
  I for one, can forgive Meridian and every other USB-powered DAC if they don't deal with the power issues as well as CEntrance does, in my experience.  I haven't heard the Meridian Explorer yet, but have no problem imagining that it has the potential of replacing my DACport LX.
   
  Like every other USB-powered DAC, the Meridian Explorer will sound fine with the power provided by most laptop or PC USB ports, but expecting it to work with everything out there is asking too much.   I say, spend the $199 for clean power_ if you have to_ - so that you can enjoy what the DAC itself has to offer without suffering it with environmental problems.
   
  Again, it may look as if I'm derailing the thread to talk about another product, in this case to suggest buying the iFi iUSBPower, but no component in a chain can function at its best without dependency on other components.
   
  Mike


----------



## Chudalicious

I just had to hear one of these bad boys so picked one up today at my local audio store and had a question for everyone else out there...
   
  I thought it came with a protective pouch like the Dragonfly? Mine did not. Anyone get one or did I dream that one was included? Could have sworn I saw an image with one somewhere!!
   
  EDIT: I am a dumby...
   
   
  I just went out to the car to check and lo and behold, the red insert with the pouch folded in was in the bag still on the seat. This is a folly of errors as well because when it was purchased yesterday, two units were opened by the shop as well and neither showed the pouch even after emptying out onto the counter.
   
  Apologies


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





chudalicious said:


> I just had to hear one of these bad boys so picked one up today at my local audio store and had a question for everyone else out there...
> 
> I thought it came with a protective pouch like the Dragonfly? Mine did not. Anyone get one or did I dream that one was included? Could have sworn I saw an image with one somewhere!!


 
   
  It should be in a plastic wrap under the main packaging.


----------



## wfranklin

Quote: 





swmtnbiker said:


> I agree that it sounds good, but if the noise issue some people have been experiencing is design-related then the solution would be for Meridian to address it, not throw a couple more Franklins at the problem and hope for the best.


 
  Hey!  I take that personally!  (My hame is Franklin...)  I fixed my problem simply by improving the quality of the interconnects, something which I should have done a long time ago (to get the best result out of using a separate DAC).  To give you some perspective, the cost of the interconnects on the rest of my system is somewhere around $2K, so spending $60 on (almost bottom rung) AudioQuest cables is nothing (although the rest of the system was purchased in better economic times, and $360 on DAC and cables is in line with my current budgetary constraints).  Anytime you introduce something new to a "permanent" system, be prepared to make some adjustments to get the best results!


----------



## wfranklin

Quote: 





bones13 said:


> Using the Meridian with a Wireworld Ultraviolet 0.5m (~$50) cable from my MacBookPro - sounds great, No buzz.
> 
> I'm not sold on much differences with USB cables with the following distinctions :
> 
> ...


 
  By "flat cable" are you refering to a WireWorld product by any chance?


----------



## wfranklin

Quote: 





poimandres said:


> Maybe you should reread your last few posts.
> 
> I am curious if anyone has used any premium usb cables other than the ultraviolet with the Explorer. As mentioned earlier I know that there are at least 2 different schools of thought on the effect of sound quality however it appears that the build quality and ergonomics would be better.


 
  AudioQuest Evergreen.  Definitely not premium from the standpoint of their product line, but much so in comparison with stock (junk) cables.


----------



## wfranklin

Quote: 





chudalicious said:


> I just had to hear one of these bad boys so picked one up today at my local audio store and had a question for everyone else out there...
> 
> I thought it came with a protective pouch like the Dragonfly? Mine did not. Anyone get one or did I dream that one was included? Could have sworn I saw an image with one somewhere!!


 
  The protective pouch is what an early video poster called a "polishing cloth".  It is a felt sleeve, just large enough to fit the ME and its short USB cable.


----------



## Chudalicious

Quote: 





wfranklin said:


> The protective pouch is what an early video poster called a "polishing cloth".  It is a felt sleeve, just large enough to fit the ME and its short USB cable.


 
  Right!  Did anyone actually get one?


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





chudalicious said:


> Right!  Did anyone actually get one?


 
   
  Yes - as I mentioned I found mine under the main packaging and have been using it.  Did you pull apart the packaging?  There should also be a fold out user manual it may be under, can't recall.


----------



## Chudalicious

No manual - no pouch  
  nothing else in the box.... Sounds great but What!?
   
  Thanks for clarifying as I thought it felt like something was missing. Also, it was a sealed box straight from Meridian!!


----------



## swmtnbiker

Quote: 





wfranklin said:


> Hey!  I take that personally!  (My hame is Franklin...)  I fixed my problem simply by improving the quality of the interconnects, something which I should have done a long time ago (to get the best result out of using a separate DAC).  To give you some perspective, the cost of the interconnects on the rest of my system is somewhere around $2K, so spending $60 on (almost bottom rung) AudioQuest cables is nothing (although the rest of the system was purchased in better economic times, and $360 on DAC and cables is in line with my current budgetary constraints).  Anytime you introduce something new to a "permanent" system, be prepared to make some adjustments to get the best results!


 
   
  $2K worth of interconnects? Yikes! I'm not a cable believer, and this isn't the thread for discussing them. Besides, debating the merits of pricey interconnects (or the lack thereof) is like debating religion. There's really no point IMO. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I will say that I don't think I should have to shell out good money for an expensive USB cable to (possibly) make up for shortcomings in a devices design. I'm not saying that the Explorer necessarily has a design issue since I'm not qualified to make that kind of judgment. I will say that on my unit, if it IS a cable issue, the USB cable they ship with the DAC is noisy as hell. That's not good. And let me repeat that no other USB DAC I've had in my system over the past 6 months (ODAC, rDAC, Bifrost, Pan Am, M-Stage) has had noise issues. Not a single one. That tells me the problem is with the Explorer, not my cables or the cleanliness of my computer's USB power.
   
  I also wanted to reiterate that the noise I'm hearing is only apparent on the Meridian's line out. It's built-in headphone amp is dead quiet.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





chudalicious said:


> No manual - no pouch
> nothing else in the box.... Sounds great but What!?
> 
> Thanks for clarifying as I thought it felt like something was missing. Also, it was a sealed box straight from Meridian!!


 
   
  So the piece of cardboard the unit is laying inside - you removed that and there is nothing under it?


----------



## bcwang

swmtnbiker said:


> And let me repeat that no other USB DAC I've had in my system over the past 6 months (ODAC, rDAC, Bifrost, Pan Am, M-Stage) has had noise issues.




Oh you have or had an odac, please comment how the explorer compares to it.


----------



## swmtnbiker

Quote: 





bcwang said:


> Oh you have or had an odac, please comment how the explorer compares to it.


 
   
  I only have memory to draw upon, but I find that the Explorer has a more pleasing presentation. It's certainly a more flexible option if you're looking for a portable solution.


----------



## cat6man

I've got a feasibility proof in place now for updating the source in my car stereo (and now have headphone capability for the passenger!).





The logitech touch is streaming wifi from my home NAS/Squeezebox Server. The logitech, using the 'enhanced digital' app (available from logitech but officially unsupported), is set to USB/Meridian for digital ouput, and the Meridian explorer line out feeds the AUX IN of my Kenwood 9900HD car stereo dashboard unit. In a five minute comparison to an ipod feeding digital into the Kenwood's DAC, the Meridian is clearly more detailed and I had little interest in further comparisons................onward to the next step.

Since there is not a lot of utility in a car stereo system that can only play music within 50 yards of my house, the next step is to build a portable squeezebox server for the car, which will be based on a Raspberry Pi for which there is a port of the squeezebox server (aka LMS, logitech media server). Raspberry Pi, a powered USB hub and a laptop hard drive will be in the pocket behind the front passengers seat, and an ethernet cable (RPi to logitech) and 5Vdc cable will go along the center console to the logitech touch, a usb cable form the touch will plug in where the Aux In cable is seen in the photo, and the Meridian will get the usb inside the glovebox.

I'll post an system architecture outline later showing how all the pieces fit together.

Time to upgrade my old Unix skills and play with Linux/Debian. I have two RPi ($35 each) on order that should be arriving this week.


----------



## MatsudaMan

Quote: 





cat6man said:


> I've got a feasibility proof in place now for updating the source in my car stereo (and now have headphone capability for the passenger!).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Love that live Alison Krauss album


----------



## Chudalicious

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> So the piece of cardboard the unit is laying inside - you removed that and there is nothing under it?


 
  Nada... looks like I'm calling Meridian tomorrow though.
   
  Grand scheme of things - not a big deal. But, when you buy anything, especially from a well-known manufacturer, you expect what everyone else gets.
   
  EDIT; Found it!! Sorry for the dumbyness


----------



## stuckonsound

Not to poo poo on this product, but it seems like whenever something new comes along its automatically the best thing ever.
   
  How does the headphone amp compare to a Dacport? The Meridian Explorer puts out 130 mw @ 16 ohms. The Dacport puts out a much more potent 1.5 *W* @ ??ohms.
   
  Also, has everyone forgoten the iBasso D7 sidewinder has already been offering 24/192 over USB for over a year. Plus in addition to 1/8" line out and headphone amp out, it has RCA outs and a coax digital out.
   
  Am I missing something, or is this just FOTM fever?


----------



## cat6man

Quote: 





stuckonsound said:


> Not to poo poo on this product, but it seems like whenever something new comes along its automatically the best thing ever.
> 
> How does the headphone amp compare to a Dacport? The Meridian Explorer puts out 130 mw @ 16 ohms. The Dacport puts out a much more potent 1.5 *W* @ ??ohms.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Well, I did another comparison this afternoon.  The Meridian, which is targeted for my car stereo system, was compared with my current main DAC.
   
  On one side, we have logitech touch, usb output to meridian, line out (single ended) to BHSE to stax 009.
  One the other side, we have logitech touch #2(for car system), spdif output to TACT2.2XP (which retimes it), aes/ebu to Wadia 27ix, balanced out to BHSE to stax 009.
   
  This allowed me to start both logitech touch on the same song at the same time, and switch between them with the BHSE.
   
  The winner:  Wadia 27ix, whose current used resale value, per blue book, is more than 10x the Meridian price. The sound was more resolved, there was a better and wider soundstage.  By comparison the Meridian was a bit more aggressive, less refined and a more congested and no match for a multi-thousand dollar DAC.
   
  Conclusion:  the meridian is not 'the best thing ever', but it is a very credible DAC and really nice for the price.


----------



## MatsudaMan

Quote: 





stuckonsound said:


> Not to poo poo on this product, but it seems like whenever something new comes along its automatically the best thing ever.
> 
> How does the headphone amp compare to a Dacport? The Meridian Explorer puts out 130 mw @ 16 ohms. The Dacport puts out a much more potent 1.5 *W* @ ??ohms.
> 
> ...


 
  I think people are excited about a DAC/Headphone amplifier by Meridian that is 300 dollars.  I think any sane person knows not to compare it to a standalone DAC or a standalone Headphone amplifier.  Yes, people are crazy about it because it's new and shiny!  Nothing wrong with a little fever.  I think it looks like it'll be a neat little toy, but nothing more than a good portable option when you're on the road away from your "real" headphone amplifier and DAC.


----------



## zilch0md

dpippel,
   
  I've taken the time to read your entire testimony regarding your noisy Explorer, and I have to agree that it must be faulty - most likely you have a "lemon."    The kicker for me is your having had no problem with all those other usb-powered DACs on the same machine / same USB port.   Your experience is identical to what led me to return a JDS Labs Standalone Objective DAC, paying the 15% restocking fee.  I wasn't thrilled with how thin and dry it sounded with the rest of my chain, but it was throwing little fits of HF noise every once in a while.  JDS suggested I plug it into a powered USB hub, but I argued that even if that was a solution, it wouldn't explain why every other USB-powered DAC worked just fine on that same machine / same port.
   
  So, I hear you.  Return it for exchange or just return it.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Mike


----------



## swmtnbiker

I'm returning it Mike. I just haven't decided if it's worth my while to exchange it and try a second unit or just get a refund. I still prefer my VDA1 to the Explorer, although it's fairly close. The Meridian appealed to me mostly due to its flexibility and portability.


----------



## feverfive

I stay away from Head-Fi for months, come back for a day & end up spending north of $1,000...including ordering this bit of kit from TTVJ.   Seems peeps are generally happy w/ the headphone amp.  If I care to pair it w/ a stand-alone HP amp (like an Arrow or Pico Slim), I can just use a mini-to-mini interconnect between the Meridian line-out & amp's line-in, correct?


----------



## swmtnbiker

Correct.


----------



## TooPoor

I'm going to try mini - RCA with my Lyr (mini-mini with the E12). I have no idea what to expect, but it should suffice until a get a dedicated desktop DAC.


----------



## swmtnbiker

The Explorer sounds just as good as many a dedicated desktop DAC, particularly in this price range. It'll pair up well with your Lyr.


----------



## Leslie Dorner

I'm interested to read some actual user experience with Linux specifically the latest Ubuntu 64 bit distribution. I'm using a System76 Lemur Ultra Thin (lemu4) with Ubuntu 12.10 64 bit and I just sold my cheap NuForce Icon u-DAC2SE. So, I can only listen to my MP3s when I'm at home. I have some HD Tracks flac albums, actually quite a number of them, and I got interested in the Meridian Explorer.
   
  Has anyone tried it with the latest Ubuntu? Does it work? Are there any problems that I should know about?
   
  My understanding is that it does not provide up or over sampling. Am I correct so far?
   
  What boutique USB mini bus cables work well with this? I was thinking about the Kimber Kable 2 meter mini bus cable, but Cardas makes a Clear mini bus cable. I was wondering if anyone tried any boutique mini USB cables and if it makes a difference or not.
   
  How do you control the volume on this thing?


----------



## Armaegis

Quote: 





feverfive said:


> I stay away from Head-Fi for months, come back for a day & end up spending north of $1,000...


 
   
Welcome to head-fi, sorry about your wallet...
   
  Welcome back to head-fi... didn't you learn your lesson the first time?


----------



## gidgiddonihah

Quote: 





feverfive said:


> I stay away from Head-Fi for months, come back for a day & end up spending north of $1,000...


 
   
  I wish I could be as gutsy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. 
   
  I am seriously considering this thing because I have been without a *working* Dragonfly for almost two months now.  Audio Adviser has been great but I am getting tired of receiving duds and coordinating info over the phone.  Plus from what I am reading this is supposed to sound better than the Dragonfly anyways.  While I'm spending another 50$ what's another couple hundred for a HE-400 or HE-500 and an amp?


----------



## vo_obgyn

I've had mine for a couple of days and it sounds great. I like it better than the Dragonfly. Handles up to 192K too. MacBook Pro > Pure Music > Meridian Explorer DAC > AKG 702's is my set up.


----------



## Painterspal

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> I'm going to try mini - RCA with my Lyr (mini-mini with the E12). I have no idea what to expect, but it should suffice until a get a dedicated desktop DAC.


 
   


 It's a fine DAC in it's own right. Sounds really excellent with my Violectric v200 and Icon Audio HP8. Don't think of it as a lower option compared to desktop DACs in the sub$1K area - it isn't. If you only need USB this is a strong contender.


----------



## asdfghjkzxcvbnm

.


----------



## zilch0md

Quote: 





swmtnbiker said:


> I'm returning it Mike. I just haven't decided if it's worth my while to exchange it and try a second unit or just get a refund. I still prefer my VDA1 to the Explorer, although it's fairly close. The Meridian appealed to me mostly due to its flexibility and portability.


 
   
  Quote: 





swmtnbiker said:


> The Explorer sounds just as good as many a dedicated desktop DAC, particularly in this price range. It'll pair up well with your Lyr.


 
   
  Your objectivity is admirable, dpippel - you're recommending the Explorer for its virtues while having to deal with the noise problem it has presented for you.
   




   
  This is easy for me to say because I have no skin in the game, but encouraging more of that same objectivity, I recommend you exchange it - otherwise you'll never know whether you've just got a bad unit vs. if there's a design weakness (in every Meridian Explorer) relative to all those other USB-powered DACs that work fine with your PC's USB power.  
   
  In my case, with the "noisy" JDS Labs Objective DAC being the only USB-powered DAC that had a noise problem with my laptop's USB power, I didn't really like the sound signature enough to warrant exchanging it for another. That doesn't seem to be the case with you and the Explorer.  
   
  Again, it's easy for me to recommend an exchange, but I do have empathy with the fact that it's a pain to do so, on the thought that you could find yourself wanting to return the second one.   Consider this:  Of the gear I currently own (and greatly enjoy), I've had to return for exchange a Beyerdyanmic T1, a Burson Soloist, and a custom mini-to-mini interconnect - and I'm glad I did (for what that's worth).
   
  Mike


----------



## GAViN617

Any update on whether this will work with an android device, with/without a USB hub?


----------



## telecaster

Ok got mine and just installed together with foobar and wasapi in the bit perfect mode.
  This device is impressive, very musical, and utterly transparent. I am impressed with the sound. Got it from Audio Images in UK, Rick is such a nice guy to deal with! I'm a happy man tonight!
   
  edit:
  With HD650, sound is very very good! If I haven't already got a dedicated headphone amp, I would hesitate buying one, this thing is that good!
  With sony XBA 4, despite all the bad rap with those headphone, I like them for their impressive bass response. With meridian explorer they are tremendous! It is the best I heard the xba4, the sound is so good, it is like a completely new pair of headphones. I must say that I always paired them with android phones or walkman, and never with a dedicated amp, because my tube amp is OTL so only for high impedance cans. But I can say that Explorer and balanced armature is high class sound.


----------



## JohannesBrahms

Quote: 





swmtnbiker said:


> The Explorer sounds just as good as many a dedicated desktop DAC, particularly in this price range. It'll pair up well with your Lyr.


 
  So are you saying that the Meridian, which is jack of all trades, usb amp/dac sounds as good as a 300 dollar dedicated DAC?  Can you tell me what desktop DACs specifically you compared to the Meridian and the differences you heard (what kind of music you used in comparing), the headphones you used and the software, etc?


----------



## swmtnbiker

Quote: 





johannesbrahms said:


> So are you saying that the Meridian, which is jack of all trades, usb amp/dac sounds as good as a 300 dollar dedicated DAC?  Can you tell me what desktop DACs specifically you compared to the Meridian and the differences you heard (what kind of music you used in comparing), the headphones you used and the software, etc?


 
   
  I'm too lazy to type out a detailed analysis. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A variety of music genres -> Windows 7 -> FLAC -> JRiver Media Center WASAPI -> Explorer (USB)/CIAudio VDA1 (Toslink)/Arcam rDAC (USB) -> Schiit Audio Lyr/Burson Soloist/Bottlehead Crack -> Senn HD 650. I directly compared the Meridian to the two other DACs in the chain. It's very close to the VDA1 ($500) and sounded better to my ears than the rDAC ($480).
   
  FROM MEMORY ONLY the line out on the Explorer sounds better than the ODAC, the DAC in the ALO Pan Am, and the DAC in the Matrix M-Stage, but I was unable to compare them directly as I no longer have any of the aforementioned gear (but I've possessed all of them over the past 6 months).
   
  EDIT: I forgot the Bifrost, which in my rig sounded a bit "thin". Again, from memory only, the Explorer seems to have more meat in its sonic signature.


----------



## estreeter

Guys, I should have known this would be *an 18-page thread in the space of a week* ... `
   
  Can someone pls provide me a link to a an internet reseller who has stocks of the Explorer - I have a dodgy net connection and simply cant go back through 17 pages of 'this looks great !' posts to find said link  
   
  Google seems to throw up the same Meridian press release for 4 or so pages. 
   
  Thanks,
   
  estreeter


----------



## swmtnbiker

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> Your objectivity is admirable, dpippel - you're recommending the Explorer for its virtues while having to deal with the noise problem it has presented for you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for the support Mike, AND for muddying the water for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was all set to simply get a refund on the Explorer and now you've got me thinking again. Hmmmm....


----------



## swmtnbiker

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Guys, I should have known this would be *an 18-page thread in the space of a week* ... `
> 
> Can someone pls provide me a link to a an internet reseller who has stocks of the Explorer - I have a dodgy net connection and simply cant go back through 17 pages of 'this looks great !' posts to find said link
> 
> ...


 
   
  http://www.ttvjaudio.com/A_Real_Meridian_DAC_p/mer0000001.htm


----------



## estreeter

Thanks, dpippel - should have known Todd would have stock. I'm stunned that he seems to have received his delivery before the press release went out - in some cases, we wait months for a product to actually hit the shelves. Kudos to Meridian for this.


----------



## swmtnbiker

Quote:



estreeter said:


> Thanks, dpippel - should have known Todd would have stock. I'm stunned that he seems to have received his delivery before the press release went out - in some cases, we wait months for a product to actually hit the shelves. Kudos to Meridian for this.


 

   
  Indeed. I ordered mine from Todd at the beginning of last week and had it in my hands on Valentine's Day.


----------



## FlySweep

I'm not sure if TTVJ has the (next batch of) ME in stock.. yet.  Looks like he burned through the initial batch quickly & was waiting for the next to arrive (which I'm guessing is today/this week).  I ordered the ME from him on Thursday or Friday & haven't got a shipping notification yet.


----------



## JohannesBrahms

Quote: 





swmtnbiker said:


> I'm too lazy to type out a detailed analysis.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  THanks for the response.  I don't want to sound naggy or nitpicky, but your comparisons are vague at best.  Simply saying something is "very close" or "better", doesn't give me the sense that you are very analytical in your assessments.  I think it's great that you've been able to compare the Meridian with a quite a few different DACS....just would love to actually read about some real differences with examples and more descriptive differences other than, "better".


----------



## swmtnbiker

Quote: 





johannesbrahms said:


> THanks for the response.  I don't want to sound naggy or nitpicky, but your comparisons are vague at best.  Simply saying something is "very close" or "better", doesn't give me the sense that you are very analytical in your assessments.  I think it's great that you've been able to compare the Meridian with a quite a few different DACS....just would love to actually read about some real differences with examples and more descriptive differences other than, "better".


 
   
  Sorry, but they are what they are - nothing more than anecdotal, subjective impressions. I simply don't have the time or inclination to get into detailed analysis. You can always do what I did and order up several different pieces of equipment, live with them in your own rig, and make a decision based on first-hand experience.


----------



## TooPoor

They got a batch today. I contacted them and received a FedEx number if that helps.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

> [size=medium]
> 
> 
> > Gave the Meridian Explorer some ear time on headphones.  The ME definitely has more resolution and air than the DragonFly (DF), both set at 24/96k.  Vocals on the ME has more depth and mid-bass is cleaner.  One can say the DF is slightly warmer than ME.  The ME is definitely a notch above the DF in terms of being able to reproduce complex music more clearly while the DF is not as refined.  The DF may be easier to like for some due to it's slightly more "analog" sound signature.  The ME makes cheapo headphones sound good and good headphones sound even better.  The NuForce hp-800 sounds much better through the ME.
> ...


----------



## yfei

Just got email from them that mine shipped today as well (fedex).    ordered last thursday.
  Quote: 





toopoor said:


> They got a batch today. I contacted them and received a FedEx number if that helps.


----------



## feverfive

Quote: 





flysweep said:


> I'm not sure if TTVJ has the (next batch of) ME in stock.. yet.  Looks like he burned through the initial batch quickly & was waiting for the next to arrive (which I'm guessing is today/this week).  I ordered the ME from him on Thursday or Friday & haven't got a shipping notification yet.


 
   
  I was thinking the same, though I ordered just yesterday...  I wasn't expecting to receive shipping notice until tomorrow (Tues, Feb 19) due to the holiday, but now I'll assume it'll be a couple days fater that at the earliest if there's a a line ahead of me.  =(


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





swmtnbiker said:


> Sorry, but they are what they are - nothing more than anecdotal, subjective impressions. I simply don't have the time or inclination to get into detailed analysis. You can always do what I did and order up several different pieces of equipment, live with them in your own rig, and make a decision based on first-hand experience.


 
   
  After Chris Connaker's detailed review, I immediately thought 'Head-Fiers are going to _swoop_ on this thing'. It's ALL *subjective impressions*, regardless of the fact that Chris is one of very few who has heard the best DACs dCS and EMM Labs have to offer - I appreciate your brief impressions every bit as much as an 'expert' like Mr Connaker. End of the day, its going to come down to my music / cans/ preferences anyway, but how many of us would have paid a lot more than 250-299 USD for DACs (let alone DAC/amps) as good as the Dragonfly / Explorer as little as 2 years ago ? We live in a golden age, IMO.


----------



## wfranklin

One thing I ran across this weekend was an issue with hi-def video playback (RGB from laptop direct to monitor) using ME (set to 24/192) for the audio.  I think this has to do with the software buffering used at the higher bit rate, but by the end of watching a 64-minute video, the audio was a full 50 seconds behind the video (which made following the narrative a bit dicey).  Again, I did not experiment, but think this has to do with setting the device to the max bitrate for something that didn't warrant anything higher than 16/44.1 (if that).  Audio playback was great thorugh the weekend, and no issues with the low-level noise I experienced prior to swapping out the cables.  With a number of albums, it was like discovering the music again for the first time.  (E.g., the superb 24/96 albums The Highwaymen and Encore-The Highwaymen from HDTracks.


----------



## zilch0md

Quote: 





hifiguy528 said:


> > [size=medium]
> >
> >
> > > Gave the Meridian Explorer some ear time on headphones.  The ME definitely has more resolution and air than the DragonFly (DF), both set at 24/96k.  Vocals on the ME has more depth and mid-bass is cleaner.  One can say the DF is slightly warmer than ME.  The ME is definitely a notch above the DF in terms of being able to reproduce complex music more clearly while the DF is not as refined.  The DF may be easier to like for some due to it's slightly more "analog" sound signature.  The ME makes cheapo headphones sound good and good headphones sound even better.  The NuForce hp-800 sounds much better through the ME.
> > ...


 
   
  Thanks for you assessment, HiFiGuy528...
   
  I was hoping to learn that the Explorer is warmer and wetter than the Dragonfly, which most people find to be somewhat cool and dry - as is the case with most ESS9023 DACs, including the JDS Labs Objective DAC, and the Stoner Acoustics UD100 - all of which I find to be too dry for my tastes (using neutral SS amps, not tube gear).  
   
  Instead, you're describing the Dragonfly as having a more 'analog' signature than the Explorer.  If others reach the same conclusion, I probably wouldn't find the Explorer to be appealing for use with my gear, my ears, my tastes.  
   
  The last thing I want is a DAC that's less warm than an ESS9023 DAC.
   
  Thanks,
   
  Mike


----------



## HiFiGuy528

get a good quality USB cable.  The WireWorld Starlight does make a difference.


----------



## JohannesBrahms

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> Thanks for you assessment, HiFiGuy528...
> 
> I was hoping to learn that the Explorer is warmer and wetter than the Dragonfly, which most people find to be somewhat cool and dry - as is the case with most ESS9023 DACs, including the JDS Labs Objective DAC, and the Stoner Acoustics UD100 - all of which I find to be too dry for my tastes (using neutral SS amps, not tube gear).
> 
> ...


 
  That's the problem with these evaluations.  He might have had a small change in his sinuses that made him hear it a little differently that day.  Maybe his mood was a little different that gave him a different take on the sound.  People constantly contradict each other and often times we actually hear what we want to hear.  You get a new shiny toy (Meridian) and it's no wonder that it sounds 'better' than the old toy (dragonfly).  Kind of like when you get a car wash and your car all of a sudden drives smoother and just feels newer.  I cringe when a new product, especially of the budget variety, comes out and all of a sudden everyone hails it as the next best thing.  Rewrap the dragonfly and rerelease it and I'm sure it will have similar success on these forums.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Differences between the two is clearly there.  Anytime you change something in the chain there will be a difference.  Is the difference something you like is up to you to decide.  The ME has a lot of resolution.  Because of that, it performs better with more complex music than the DF.  Both DACs are very very good especially when considering its size and price.


----------



## zilch0md

HiFiGuy528,
   
  I just want you to know that I find your opinion to be every bit as valuable as anyone else's.   In the long run, I'll be looking for a consensus, before spending any money, and of course, in the end, my own ears will decide whether I will keep the Explorer, should I actually buy one.
   
  Thanks again for your input!
   
  Mike


----------



## swmtnbiker

Quote: 





johannesbrahms said:


> That's the problem with these evaluations.  He might have had a small change in his sinuses that made him hear it a little differently that day.  Maybe his mood was a little different that gave him a different take on the sound.  People constantly contradict each other and often times we actually hear what we want to hear.  You get a new shiny toy (Meridian) and it's no wonder that it sounds 'better' than the old toy (dragonfly).  Kind of like when you get a car wash and your car all of a sudden drives smoother and just feels newer.  I cringe when a new product, especially of the budget variety, comes out and all of a sudden everyone hails it as the next best thing.  Rewrap the dragonfly and rerelease it and I'm sure it will have similar success on these forums.


 
   
  Man, lighten up a little. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 This is a hobby for most of us. If you're looking for hard scientific data on a DAC, with few exceptions, Head-fi is the wrong tree to be barking up. Besides, you keep asking for detailed, objective impressions of this product and then comment that those impressions probably wouldn't be reliable anyway. In the end we're ALL passing judgement on gear with our ears and our brains. I'll throw it out there again - if you're not happy with the opinions being expressed here about the Explorer, order one yourself and see what you think. If it doesn't impress you then return it or sell it.


----------



## plakat

Just received mine after researching matters over the weekend... Glad I got one. I'll have to give it more time and a direct comparison but my first impression is much better than with the Leckerton UHA-6S.MKII, across the whole spectrum. Better to a degree that I did not expect, although I have to say that the Leckerton was fed via USB which limits its resolution.
   
  Another thing: Sorry to say that I could not get the Explorer to work with an iPad. I've checked with an iPad Mini via the Lightning to USB dongle and on an iPad 3 with the CCK, each connected to a powered USB hub. The iPads both say 'USB device not supported' (connecting without hub gives 'USB device draws too much power' as expected). I'll try and find another hub and check again...
   
  As the Explorer uses the systems volume controls it might be helpful to know that on a Mac you can change volume in smaller steps by holding down Alt+Shift while using the keyboard volume buttons.


----------



## zilch0md

Quote: 





plakat said:


> Just received mine after researching matters over the weekend... Glad I got one. I'll have to give it more time and a direct comparison but my first impression is much better than with the Leckerton UHA-6S.MKII, across the whole spectrum. Better to a degree that I did not expect, although I have to say that the Leckerton was fed via USB which limits its resolution.
> 
> Another thing: Sorry to say that I could not get the Explorer to work with an iPad. I've checked with an iPad Mini via the Lightning to USB dongle and on an iPad 3 with the CCK, each connected to a powered USB hub. The iPads both say 'USB device not supported' (connecting without hub gives 'USB device draws too much power' as expected). I'll try and find another hub and check again...
> 
> As the Explorer uses the systems volume controls it might be helpful to know that *on a Mac you can change volume in smaller steps by holding down Alt+Shift while using the keyboard volume buttons.*


 
   
  Lots of valuable stuff in your post - thanks!    (I didn't know about the Alt-Shift trick, either.)
   
  Mike


----------



## Painterspal

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> Thanks for you assessment, HiFiGuy528...
> 
> I was hoping to learn that the Explorer is warmer and wetter than the Dragonfly, which most people find to be somewhat cool and dry - as is the case with most ESS9023 DACs, including the JDS Labs Objective DAC, and the Stoner Acoustics UD100 - all of which I find to be too dry for my tastes (using neutral SS amps, not tube gear).
> 
> ...


 
  I've only had a short opportunity to get to know the ME and I haven't done any direct comparisons to my DX100, which has the sabre chip. However, I wouldn't say that it's cool or dry as a DAC; bass for instance is very well extended and controlled. I'd probably use terms like neutral, detailed, dynamic, clean etc and say that it does a good job of bringing out the attack and rhythmic nature of the music. It strikes me that it has the kind of virtues normally attributed to solid state systems rather than tubes, if you know what I mean.
   
  However, for the reasons above I thought I'd prefer it with my tube amp but instead I'm finding it really sings with the Violectric v200, the good qualities of both mutually enhanced.


----------



## estreeter

Guys, I'm a long way from being a hardcore objectivist, but is the opposite of a 'dry' sound necessarily a 'wet' sound ? I'm sorry, but I get 'warm' as a reasonable descriptor, I get 'taut' and I _definitely_ get 'clinical', but '*wet*' ? 
   
  Chris Connaker's review told me all I wanted to know re the sound - now I just need to get my hands on one for myself. Given that I didn't buy a single new audio component for the duration of 2012, I'm confident that I'm not simply leaping on the FOTM bandwagon, although I do concede the point made by JohannesBrahms re the incredible gear thrash on HF. Sooner or later everyone makes a purchasing decision one way or the other - if I do so purely on the basis of forum chatter, surely I only have myself to blame if the end result doesnt meet expectations ? 
   
_Caveat Emptor _Head-Fiers


----------



## TK277

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Guys, I'm a long way from being a hardcore objectivist, but is the opposite of a 'dry' sound necessarily a 'wet' sound ? I'm sorry, but I get 'warm' as a reasonable descriptor, I get 'taut' and I _definitely_ get 'clinical', but '*wet*' ?
> 
> Chris Connaker's review told me all I wanted to know re the sound - now I just need to get my hands on one for myself. Given that I didn't buy a single new audio component for the duration of 2012, I'm confident that I'm not simply leaping on the FOTM bandwagon, although I do concede the point made by JohannesBrahms re the incredible gear thrash on HF. Sooner or later everyone makes a purchasing decision one way or the other - if I do so purely on the basis of forum chatter, surely I only have myself to blame if the end result doesnt meet expectations ?
> 
> _Caveat Emptor _Head-Fiers


 
  I agree with "wet" being a weird term. I use lush.


----------



## zilch0md

*Wet* - A reverberant sound, something with decay. Opposite of Dry.
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/220770/describing-sound-a-glossary


----------



## telecaster

wet is the term used for the amount of reverberations setting used in sound processing by audio mixers. You got your wet signal which is affected by the reverberations and the dry signal which is not.


----------



## Aerocraft67

Regarding FOTM, if you consider something like Moore's law applies to DACs, then it's quite plausible that new DACs offer substantial performance increases in a short time over previous products. I think what we're observing is that the pace of innovation is very brisk with DACs right now. It can get a bit recklessly hyped, but it is exciting.
   
  Dragonfly posed a major advancement in accessible hi fi, deserving much of the praise it received, and it remains a great DAC in the subcategory that it largely defined. Now, more refined devices like Explorer are becoming available. Nothing false about it; again, it's quite exciting, and warrants enthusiasm.


----------



## Aerocraft67

I agree that "wet" is among the least intuitive terms in sound description, but it does describe one of the ways Explorer performs well, particularly in contrast to Dragonfly. Superior timbre and decay sold me on Explorer. Dragonfly excels at detail and attack with a fast pace, and there's nothing muddy about the bass, but it winds up sounding analytical to me, whereas Explorer is more convincingly musical. Yet Explorer doesn't wind up too slow or rich or congested. It really sounds balanced and neutral. This adds up to a more pleasant listen with Explorer for me. With Dragonfly, I'm usually reaching to turn it down. With Explorer, I'm reaching to turn it up. Still hard to beat Dragonfly's portability, and the multi color sample rate indicator is very cool, and the punchy sound has its merits, and it genuinely did reset the standard in DAC price/performance at the entry level. I'm sure something will come along soon that bests Explorer, but it's a very satisfying addition to my system and poses a great value accordingly. If Explorer weren't my primary DAC, I'd be happy to keep Dragonfly around as a secondary unit.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





aerocraft67 said:


> Regarding FOTM, if you consider something like Moore's law applies to DACs, then it's quite plausible that new DACs offer substantial performance increases in a short time over previous products. I think what we're observing is that the pace of innovation is very brisk with DACs right now. It can get a bit recklessly hyped, but it is exciting.
> 
> Dragonfly posed a major advancement in accessible hi fi, deserving much of the praise it received, and it remains a great DAC in the subcategory that it largely defined. Now, more refined devices like Explorer are becoming available. Nothing false about it; again, it's quite exciting, and warrants enthusiasm.


 
   
  I see it differently, If it was simply Moore's Law, every DAC based on a given amp would have similar performance. Personally, I believe *implementation is everything*, and reading Chris Connaker's review its obvious that Meridian have carried their considerable (and often undervalued) software expertise to bear with the Explorer : different firmware for a different sound signature. `
   
  Bravo Meridian.


----------



## estreeter

Forgot to add that I suspect this thread would be 3-4 times its current size if Jude had posted it in 'Portable Headphone Amps' instead of 'Computer Audio' : I dont know what it is, but my experience with one of project86's excellent threads (music servers) is that this forum doesnt get as much traffic as the portable amp forum - just sayin.


----------



## Painterspal

I'm testing the Explorer with the iFi iUSBPower which I received today. First impressions are very positive.


----------



## Dsnuts

Oh man this thing sounds utterly fantastic..
   
  I did notice a bit of brightness in the upper registers on open box. Have been listening to it non stop and it seems to be gone..This is definitely the best sounding DAC I have ever owned..Vocals on this thing is sublime..Everything sounds decidedly high end to my ears.. I am using my AD900X on the Meridian Explorer..The massive stage on the cans plus this unit is the best combo I have heard I think ever for me. Just amazed at the clean pure sound I am hearing from this combo..I want to say it could use a bit more smoothness but I have a feeling this will come with more usage..I am one happy camper with this unit at this point..
   
  Almost 3 hours of straight listening and I want to say the sound has opened up a bit more so and is now sounds a bit thicker as well. So it seems to be improving from open box sound with more use. Ok so I am officially a fan. No buyers remorse here.


----------



## zilch0md

Quote: 





painterspal said:


> I'm testing the Explorer with the iFi iUSBPower which I received today. First impressions are very positive.


 
   
  Hey, that's great!   So, does that mean you can hear a "positive" difference when the Explorer is getting its power from the iFi iUSBPower instead of from your PC's USB port?  
   
  I can't recall - were you trying to solve a noise problem by ordering the iFi iUSBPower?
   
  Thanks,
   
  Mike


----------



## feverfive

Man I'm jealous of all you guys/gals.  Can't wait to get mine.  I ordered on Sunday from TTVJ, but apparently he's back-ordered (I had to learn that little tidbit from a post in a different thread).  Wish the product page would've said that as I could've bought from another source (who is also now back-ordered).
   
  Still, I wait anxiously for shipment notice.  I think this will work great for me when I take my notebook w/ on an upcoming trip w/ my new SM64's


----------



## dwong

Quote: 





painterspal said:


> I'm testing the Explorer with the iFi iUSBPower which I received today. First impressions are very positive.


 
  I would love to hear your impressions of the iFi iUSBPower.  
   
  I got to listen to the Explorer today for a short duration and here are my initial impressions.  I was wowed by how great it sounded paired with my HE-400s.  Vocals, especially female vocals, sound amazing!  Overall, there's an added sense of liveliness and engagement that makes the listening experience more involving and fun.  Detail retrieval is no slack either- I was able to hear textures in the guitar and bass of Clapton's Unplugged album that none of my previous setups were  able to reproduce.  This has definitely been a purchase that put a smile on my face from the moment I had it playing.  I can't say that about any other DACs or amps that I've owned.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





feverfive said:


> Man I'm jealous of all you guys/gals.  Can't wait to get mine.  I ordered on Sunday from TTVJ, but apparently he's back-ordered (I had to learn that little tidbit from a post in a different thread).  Wish the product page would've said that as I could've bought from another source (who is also now back-ordered).
> 
> Still, I wait anxiously for shipment notice.  I think this will work great for me when I take my notebook w/ on an upcoming trip w/ my new SM64's


 
   
  Hang in there, feverfive - I had a feeling that he must be running low on stock and sadly you have confirmed that, but if the Dragonfly has shown us anything it's the value of patience. I'm not so sure that I agree with an earlier poster who felt that 'something even better will come along soon', but Meridian have clearly thrown down the gauntlet to others at this price point. The fact that they are building them in the UK (apparently) may mean we have to wait a little longer for new stock, but I doubt that Meridian will drop the Explorer from it's lineup anytime soon. If anything, it may inspire them to even bigger and better things in this market, similar to what Schiit have done in the wake of the Bifrost. Hope springs eternal.  
   
  (I did email Todd, FWIW, but I suspect that he is snowed under atm just trying to fill orders. I dont know how many people work there, but they must be busy little beavers !)


----------



## Painterspal

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> Hey, that's great!   So, does that mean you can hear a "positive" difference when the Explorer is getting its power from the iFi iUSBPower instead of from your PC's USB port?
> 
> I can't recall - were you trying to solve a noise problem by ordering the iFi iUSBPower?
> 
> ...


 

 In a word: yes. In my rig it's definitely making a difference, taking the Explorer (an already good product) to another level.
   
  However, I should make it clear that I have bad AC here - old house/wiring, town centre, noisy appliances etc and a history of ground loop problems.
  I'll post some more impressions over the next few days as I get clearer about what it's doing. But I will say that the big winner seems to be sound staging and overall sonic realism. The whole rig sounds completely effortless and natural in a way that I hadn't expected. However, I'm conscious of the FOTM thing and the wow factor of new equipment, so wait and I'll post some more reliable impressions/comparisons as I get to know it better.


----------



## eyal1983

Did someone compare the Explorer to the HRT MS2+ (as a DAC only of course) ?


----------



## jkbkot

Hi, I have tried the Explorer with Ubuntu 12.10. It seems to work out of the box but the volume was very low even though the volume control was set to 100%.
   
  I thought I need a newer Alsa (Ubuntu 12.10. has 1.0.25 while Meridian says you need >= 1.0.32) but it turns out that sth. called Meridian Clock Selector was set low. You can set it using alsamixer in the terminal.
   
  I still need to verify that it actually works on the Ubuntu 12.10 latest default kernel (3.5.0-24-generic) because right now I'm using the 3.8.0-030800rc7-generic mainline ubuntu kernel to which I upgraded while troubleshooting [1] the low volume.
   
  If you want me to try something out, let me know but please include some instructions if it is sth. very audio-specialized as I'm quite new to USB DACs and higher quality sound in general.
   
   
  [1] https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/222156


----------



## jkbkot

By the way, any idea what's the right setting for the "Meridian Clock Selector"? (there are in fact two, Meridian Clock Selector 1, and Meridian Clock Selector 2 in the alsamixer).
   
  It's a scale 0-100, 0 = -60 dB gain, 100 = 0 dB gain


----------



## Aerocraft67

If you're experiencing Explorer availability problems, here is a good source. I got my Explorer here and had a very positive experience.


----------



## yugas

Hi, I would like to share my impressions about the Explorer.
  I'm just shoked about the performance with my Sennheiser hd650 (black driver)
  Soundstage is deep and the sound is very clear, even at high volume levels.
   
  Best,
  Yago.


----------



## telecaster

Quote: 





yugas said:


> Hi, I would like to share my impressions about the Explorer.
> I'm just shoked about the performance with my Sennheiser hd650 (black driver)


 
   
  I got the post 2008 drivers (silver) and the HD650 sound too very superb, they sing like crazy for a portable amp! The explorers dac's got a beautiful rendition. Thanks Meridian to make this available at such a low price.


----------



## gaffagul

Anybody heard the Explorer with Beyerdynamic DT880?
  If so, how's the synergy?


----------



## wfranklin

Quote: 





yugas said:


> Hi, I would like to share my impressions about the Explorer.
> I'm just shoked about the performance with my Sennheiser hd650 (black driver)
> Soundstage is deep and the sound is very clear, even at high volume levels.
> 
> ...


 
  Nice review.  Gracias para todos.


----------



## zilch0md

Quote: 





painterspal said:


> In a word: yes. *In my rig [the iFi iUSBPower is] definitely making a difference, taking the Explorer (an already good product) to another level.*
> 
> However, I should make it clear that I have bad AC here - old house/wiring, town centre, noisy appliances etc and a history of ground loop problems.
> I'll post some more impressions over the next few days as I get clearer about what it's doing. But I will say that the big winner seems to be sound staging and overall sonic realism. The whole rig sounds completely effortless and natural in a way that I hadn't expected. However, I'm conscious of the FOTM thing and the wow factor of new equipment, so wait and I'll post some more reliable impressions/comparisons as I get to know it better.


 
   
  Thanks Painterspal.
   
  That more or less rings true with what Michael Lavorgna had said the iFi iUSBPower did for the Audioquest Dragonfly.  
   
  I appreciate your caution in providing too many impressions early on, so I'm very much looking forward to more on this.  
   
  To me, it seems that any USB-powered DAC that doesn't have a spectacular internal power management might benefit by getting the uber-clean power provided by the iFi iUSBpower.  The question becomes:  Am I willing to spend the extra money AND be tethered to an AC outlet to achieve the audible advantages?
   
  Thanks again,
   
  Mike


----------



## HiFiGuy528

that thing cost almost as much as the DF!


----------



## Leslie Dorner

Quote: 





jkbkot said:


> Hi, I have tried the Explorer with Ubuntu 12.10. It seems to work out of the box but the volume was very low even though the volume control was set to 100%.
> 
> I thought I need a newer Alsa (Ubuntu 12.10. has 1.0.25 while Meridian says you need >= 1.0.32) but it turns out that sth. called Meridian Clock Selector was set low. You can set it using alsamixer in the terminal.
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks. I think that I will wait for Raring Ringtail to ship and then I will revisit this Meridian Explorer thread again for new updates. If you could send me a friendship request here, then I would appreciate it. I may send you one. Please accept it.


----------



## simon83uk

Hello there, I'm something of a short-term lurker, used this site to get a lot of useful info the past couple of weeks, given I'm fairly new to quality headphones. Considering how much I enjoy my music, I'm surprised I haven't invested sooner, but my £5 Phillips earbuds were really beginning to show their weaknesses.
   
Anyway, I picked up a pair of Grado SR325is and one of these Meridian Explorers. Today is the first time I've been able to try it all together, certainly been very impressed so far, even if the best is yet to come from the burn-in period. Just a few questions though, if anyone would be able to put my mind at rest:
   
a.) I'm familiar with the LEDs on the Meridian lightning up depending on the audio-rate of the music being played. I'm using Foobar2000 for my playing needs, and I've followed the instructions on the sheet included with the DAC for installing. The thing is, in the Speaker Properties, I've set the Default Format to 24-bit, 192000Hz, given I have FLAC files of that quality in my library. Sure enough, the 3 LEDs light up when playing them. Though when I play 44.1KHz files, the 3 LEDs stay on. If I set the Audio Properties to the 44.1KHz, then it still only shows 1 LED when playing 192KHz files. Shouldn't it be altering the LEDs lit up depending on the music being played? Should I have the audio properties set to a different value? Both the 'Allow applications to take control of this device' and 'give exclusive mode applications priority' are ticked.
   
b.) Going through a laptop, I'm just wondering how "loud" 100% on the PC volume would generally be through such headphones, rather than cheapo £5 earbuds. I had visions of these things being deafeningly loud, at such a setting. Obviously it depends on the music, my Punk Rock music is generally fairly loud at 50% PC volume, perhaps 60-75% tops before it's uncomfortable, 80-90% on Rock/Metal, then a lot of my classical stuff is quite comfortable at 100%. My hearing is probably not as good as others, but I was getting the impression from some of the personal reviews, that people were generally staying around 50-60% system volume. And the music software is at 100% anyway. _(Think is mostly varying volumes of music library, majority of rock music is below 50% volume)_
   
  Problems solved


----------



## fuzzyash

how is the volume with the meridian for people?
  ^^^ playing at 100% volume with not hard to drive grados are not that great, but it may be your hearing


----------



## simon83uk

Actually I think the varying volumes of the files is playing quite a part. I mean the latest Bad Religion (punk rock) album is fine at 35-45%. Mostly the classical pieces are the ones at higher volumes, but I guess that's to be expected, depending on whether it's solo guitar or such like.


----------



## telecaster

its your foobar settings that govern the bitrate. Set it to Wasapi event for the meridian device and 16 bits or 24 if you want and listen to FLACs, and you're good to go!


----------



## simon83uk

Ah yeah found it, that's sorted it thanks, the joys of getting to grips with new software.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

the ME has blacker blacks than DF if that makes any sense.


----------



## TooPoor

As I wait for FedEx to get their **** together... Can anyone compare the DAC sections of the Bifrost and the Explorer? I have a Lyr and would love to add the Bifrost and use the Explorer as a portable DAC, but don't want to waste the money on the Bifrost if the Explorer is comparable.


----------



## wfranklin

(responding to fuzzyash) Not a problem with AKG K701's.  Listening comfortably right now to symphonic music (Janacek) with volume setting at about 4.5 (out of 10).  Can crank all the way to 10, but this becomes uncomfortable (acoustically).


----------



## netdog

Well I'm now the proud new owner of an Explorer. It will be with me in 3 to 7 days says the Website.  I figure if it disappoints as a dedicated DAC, I'll just turn it into a great portable for my laptop.


----------



## zilch0md

Quote: 





hifiguy528 said:


> the ME has blacker blacks than DF if that makes any sense.


 
   
  Makes perfect sense.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





   You should be able to hear some micro-details that you wouldn't be able to discern in the Dragonfly.   Maybe the Explorer's power management is handling noise from your PC better than the Dragonfly does.   
   
  Again, I'm compelled to address the subject of how important it is to have clean power.  All of these USB-powered DACs are vulnerable to PC noise - it's a classic trade off between quality of experience and convenience.
   
   
  Even this $675.00 Bel Canto uLink USB to S/PDIF converter was improved by using clean, external 5V power:
   
   Quoting another Audiostream review by Michael Lavorgna:
   


> Since the uLink gets its power from the USB bus whereas the more expensive REFLink gets its power from its own AC power supply, I figured it would be interesting to try* the iFi iUSBPower* ($199) with the uLink and see if it offered any improvement. The iUSBPower [see review] is a clever device that sits in between your computer and DAC or USB-S/PDIF converter and *provides 5V of clean power while also helping to remove any USB-based noise upstream. With the iUSBPower in my system, I noticed a lowering of the noise floor. Most striking were the more delicate sounds like brushes on cymbals, better defined spatial queues, and more dynamic impact.* Again we're not talking night and day differences rather comparative differences but if you are looking to squeeze every last drop of musical goodness from your uLink, you may want to give the iFi iUSBPower a try.


 
   
  Michael Lavorgna uses the Dragonfly powered by the iFi iUSBpower at his personal computer desk.  
   
  Again, I've never used the iFi iUSBPower myself, but I trust Michael Lavorgna's reviews and I know how much lower the noise floor is when comparing my USB-powered CEntrance DACport LX to my CEntrance DACmini CX, which literally re-manufactures the power coming in from its switch-mode AC adapter.
   
  I'm just suggesting that, within reason, we should be forgiving of any PC noise issues experienced with the Meridian Explorer and every other USB-powered DAC.  Convenience nearly always comes at a cost. * *
   
*If you're going to use one of these meant-to-be-portable USB-powered DACs as a dedicated desktop DAC, you might want to try using clean, external 5V power.   *I think the iFi iUSBPower is reasonably priced at $199. 
   
  Here's a $329 5-Volt external power supply (evidence that some people are willing to pay a lot more for clean power):  The Channel Islands VDC•5 MKII
   
*Hint:  If using a laptop instead of a desktop PC, try comparing the noise floor of your USB-powered DAC as heard when running the laptop on battery power vs. when the laptop is plugged into an AC outlet.  *When I owned a USB-powered Stoner Acoustics UD100 (an ESS9023 DAC), one of my laptops, a Toshiba L505, exhibited a dramatic reduction in noise heard at the headphones when I ran the laptop on battery power.
   
   
  Mike


----------



## ScuderiaHeadFi

People describe the DragonFly as cool and dry?  Hm...  That's not at all how mine sounds to me...  But then again, the headphones with which I use it the most are known for being smooth and musical, not clarity-focused.
  Even then, I would like to contradict those who say the DragonFly sounds "cool."
   
  If you are indeed looking for a warmer sound than you've been getting, my advice might be to rebuild your rig (or build another one) this way: get the best DAC/headphone amp your budget allows (if it allows for the Meridian, consensus seems to be that is the best ultraportable DAC at the moment) and, once you've saved up again and figured out the sound of your new DAC, get the headphones or earphones that finally give you that signature you want.  After all, it is generally the signature of the transducer that more greatly affects the sound you hear, as much as ancillary electronics might indeed have an impact... Maybe some Sony XBAs or one of the newer JVCs that have been coming out, to suggest some in-ears.
   
  So: If you can afford the Meridian comfortably, get it, and live with it for awhile.  Then get the headphones that give you the final sound you want.  That's what I believe, anyways; I'm sure there are many who think you should go the opposite direction...


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





scuderiaheadfi said:


> Even then, I would like to contradict those who say the DragonFly sounds "cool."


 
   
  I'm of the same mind.  I'd *like* to say the ME has more in common with my old ODAC/O2 combo than the latter had with my DF, but I can't as I got rid of it months ago.  The DF and ME have a very different sound, at least with the FXZ-200s I'm running out of them the DF is certainly a warmer presentation.


----------



## yugas

Another interesting feature about the Explorer, I can use at the same time the headphone and the line outputs without any problem.
   
  Also the line out is about 30% more powerful than the ODAC output.


----------



## telecaster

Explorer with OTL Lafigaro 339 mod tube amp sound terrific!! I'm having a blast! The DAC in the explorer is very very very good.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





aerocraft67 said:


> If you're experiencing Explorer availability problems, here is a good source. I got my Explorer here and had a very positive experience.


 
   
*No international orders *- fantastic business model


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





eyal1983 said:


> Did someone compare the Explorer to the HRT MS2+ (as a DAC only of course) ?


 
   
  I hope to do exactly that if and when I get my hands on an Explorer. Like many things that get hammered on initial release, he who hesitates is lost - I guess I have only myself to blame.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





scuderiaheadfi said:


> People describe the DragonFly as cool and dry?  Hm...  That's not at all how mine sounds to me...  But then again, the headphones with which I use it the most are known for being smooth and musical, not clarity-focused.
> Even then, I would like to contradict those who say the DragonFly sounds "cool."
> 
> If you are indeed looking for a warmer sound than you've been getting, my advice might be to rebuild your rig (or build another one) this way: get the best DAC/headphone amp your budget allows (if it allows for the Meridian, consensus seems to be that is the best ultraportable DAC at the moment) and, once you've saved up again and figured out the sound of your new DAC, get the headphones or earphones that finally give you that signature you want.  After all, it is generally the signature of the transducer that more greatly affects the sound you hear, as much as ancillary electronics might indeed have an impact... Maybe some Sony XBAs or one of the newer JVCs that have been coming out, to suggest some in-ears.
> ...


 
   
   
  Yeah, I was a bit surprised by that too, given the mound of keystrokes dedicated to the DF on its release - it seems that when a new 'must have' comes along, suddenly the previous 'must have' sprouts warts in embarrassing places   
   
  Those of us who have been kicking around HF for a few years know that's just the way it is. The Thais have a phrase for the process of accepting something you cant change - _mai pen rai - _and it makes a lot of sense on audio forums IME. That said, this DAC is accumulating a lot of momentum elsewhere - I'll just have to wait till the initial sales rush dies down.


----------



## markm1

How do you all feel abou using the Explorer as a dedicated DAC? I've just purchased a Schiit Asgard. The Bilfrost or Modi would be obvious, but I'm wondering how the Explorer would do paired w/ my Asgard?


----------



## Aerocraft67

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> *No international orders *- fantastic business model


 
   
  Well, the local favorite in the United States was plum out of them when I posted that, according to this thread, so I offered a viable alternative, confirmed with firsthand experience. I suppose you'd champion runing out of inventory of a hot product as a superior business model? And you can order it on Amazon if you're in the U.K., so it's not like it's out of reach outside the United States. And if you're sourcing from Asia, does it really matter whether a shop in Santa Monica, California takes international orders when you're at the center of the universe for consumer electronics manufacturing? Come on.


----------



## Aerocraft67

Quote: 





markm1 said:


> How do you all feel abou using the Explorer as a dedicated DAC? I've just purchased a Schiit Asgard. The Bilfrost or Modi would be obvious, but I'm wondering how the Explorer would do paired w/ my Asgard?


 
   
  I'm sure it would do fine. A Bifrost runs $450 for the USB version. So $150 is something. At the rate DAC price/performance is advancing, the Bifrost starts to look a little long in the tooth at that price. But the Bifrost is an upgradable match in form factor to your Asgard, which is also something, although the upgrade will probably set you back $100. And your Asgard has been upstaged by Asgard 2. Point is, I feel good about Explorer as dedicated DAC paired with your Asgard. With the caveat that I've not listened to an Asgard, although an A2 is on my upgrade short list. The Modi is a somewhat distant third in your scenario, I reckon, unless price is a big priority.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





aerocraft67 said:


> Well, the local favorite in the United States was plum out of them when I posted that, according to this thread, so I offered a viable alternative, confirmed with firsthand experience. I suppose you'd champion runing out of inventory of a hot product as a superior business model? And you can order it on Amazon if you're in the U.K., so it's not like it's out of reach outside the United States. And if you're sourcing from Asia, does it really matter whether a shop in Santa Monica, California takes international orders when you're at the center of the universe for consumer electronics manufacturing? Come on.


 
   
  My location is clearly marked on each of my posts, and it's none of the above. That said, even if I was in Asia, the ME is built in the UK, Not sure how TTVJ or your Santa Monica friends got stock so quickly when it appears that many professional reviewers are still waiting on a unit. Such is life.


----------



## zilch0md

Aerocraft67,
   
  I don't think estreeter was knocking you for posting a link to another supplier - he was just bummed that they don't ship internationally.  
   
  His disappointment was with that vendor, not your post.
   
  But in case nobody else says it, I'll say, thank you for giving us an alternate way to order it.
   





   
  Mike


----------



## Aerocraft67

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> My location is clearly marked on each of my posts, and it's none of the above. That said, even if I was in Asia, the ME is built in the UK, Not sure how TTVJ or your Santa Monica friends got stock so quickly when it appears that many professional reviewers are still waiting on a unit. Such is life.


 
   
  I just figured you were from New Jersey.
   
  Wherever you are, if you don't have a source for the Explorer, that's one thing, and airing frustration with that is perfectly reasonable, if that's your intention. But casting aspersions on my post that could quite legitimately help others is another. First by condemning the business plan of a supplier with inventory shipping online to a majority of head-fiers of product that appears to be scarce, then again by referring to the supplier pejoratively as my friends. 
   
  All that said, I suspect we agree more than disagree. I'll offer that a $300 device the size of a roll of coins, yet much lighter, should really have no global availability constraints whatsoever, and constraining its distribution primarily to exclusive audio boutiques that won't deign to fulfill orders online makes no sense. I guess this is one example of the difficulty in adapting quickly to the rapidly evolving market. It's one thing to produce a $300 high-performance device instead of a $3,000 piece of kit; it's another to distribute them accordingly.


----------



## Aerocraft67

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> My location is clearly marked on each of my posts.


 
   
  Location: Oz. Now I see it. Duh. No wonder you're ornery about shipping.


----------



## yfei

My short impression of Meridian Explorer vs. AudioQuest DragonFly:
   
  Setup: music source are 44.1k 16bit FLAC files,   foobar2000.    Both Meridian Explorer and AudioQuest DragonFly are running at 44.1k.     No upsampling on PC or on DAC.
   
  DragonFly's advantages:
  1. Sweeter, more forgiving on edgy recordings.  This is expected from Sabre DAC chip, I have experience with EE Minimax, Anedio D1, D2.  I'd say the DNA test comes back positive.
  2. More details.   Unlike most people saying Meridian Explorer having more details, I feel DragonFly has more details.  DragonFly's detail is more 'implicit', embedded in the texture of the music.   While Meridian Explorer is 'explicit', it makes people feel that it has more details, but I still think DragonFly actually has more details.
   
Meridian Explorer's advantages:
  1. More powerful, it can drive Sennheiser HD580 pretty well.  While I always hope DragonFly can give my HD580 a little bit more power.
  2. More musical.  When listening to ME it's more often there is a big smile on my face.
   
WHile musical doesn't mean it is truly reproducing the recording, I feel DragonFly is closer to the truth.     Put it another way, Meridian seems is applying both 'blur' filter and 'sharpening' filter at the same time:
- On Tool Ænima tracks, it's clear the ME tries to beautify it,  rounded off the guitar, the fun part.   While DragonFly delivers the energy.
- When listen to classicals and vocals, ME applies 'sharpening' filter to make them easier to pickup / understand.
while basically no filtering on DF.
   
My only other experience with Meridian was listening to Meridian 588 3 years ago in Head-Fi meetup.  I can remember that I quickly fall in love with it, and wants to trash my Benchmark DAC1.  Although I know that DAC1 is more correct.     Similar feeling for ME vs DF.    Because it's too long time ago, I can't say ME inherits the DNA of Meridian's CD player, but it is very likely.
   
   
  Conclusion:  There is no winner or loser.    They just have different pros and cons.    Pick one based on your personal preference, or keep both.


----------



## zilch0md

Thanks yfei!   Interesting insights.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Quote:  





> Conclusion:  There is no winner or loser.    They just have different pros and cons.    Pick one based on your personal preference, or keep both.


 
   
  I agree.  I plan on owning both.


----------



## estreeter

yfei, I'd be interested in more impressions after you have spent another week or so with the Explorer, if you get a chance. I''m a little wary of early impressions. 
   
  Thanks.


----------



## zilch0md

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> [snip]
> 
> *Hint:  If using a laptop instead of a desktop PC, try comparing the noise floor of your USB-powered DAC as heard when running the laptop on battery power vs. when the laptop is plugged into an AC outlet.  *


 
   
  Follow-up:  I've been doing some more reading on this subject.  Here's another tip when using a USB DAC, but especially when using a USB-powered DAC...  
   
*Set your screen saver to black out the display*.  Graphics adapters can generate noise on the power bus -and- even when running a laptop on AC power instead of battery, the display requires a lot of current that could affect the power available at the USB port.


----------



## netdog

So that would then apply equally to a headless computer like my Mini then? Despite there being no display, the graphics coprocessor certainly must be painting the display images.


----------



## whereas

There some kind of subconscious thing that I have that when I see a mini-jack line out vs two separate RCA connectors for audio, it seems inferior. The Meridian obviously has the mini-jack. Is this suitable for use as a DAC that would then go to a dedicated amp via mini jack?


----------



## markm1

Quote: 





aerocraft67 said:


> I'm sure it would do fine. A Bifrost runs $450 for the USB version. So $150 is something. At the rate DAC price/performance is advancing, the Bifrost starts to look a little long in the tooth at that price. But the Bifrost is an upgradable match in form factor to your Asgard, which is also something, although the upgrade will probably set you back $100. And your Asgard has been upstaged by Asgard 2. Point is, I feel good about Explorer as dedicated DAC paired with your Asgard. With the caveat that I've not listened to an Asgard, although an A2 is on my upgrade short list. The Modi is a somewhat distant third in your scenario, I reckon, unless price is a big priority.


 
   
  Thanks for the info...should have been more clear, actually I am waiting for an Asgard 2-which is on back-order and looking at DAC options.
   
  I'm something of a newbie. I've been listening to a pair of Grado 225i's for a few weeks. Honestly, they sound pretty good plugged into a decent Onyko CD player I have, but I decided it made sense to get a decent amp so I purchased the Asg 2.
   
  And these cans are tolerable straight into my computer HP jack which has generic hardware. Not great, but OK. I'm really wondering how different it will sound w/ a DAC? I'm willing to spend some money, but I would be, let's say-quite annoyed to spend over $200 with imperceptible differences in sound. So, I would say, I am willing to spend a moderate amount of money (few hundreds) for a good price point value that feels well spent.
   
  I'm not an audiophile, but I like good, robust, full sound.
   
  I'm sure it's very subjective, but how would you characterize the bump up in sound quality with a decent DAC? Is it similar, for example to the difference between listening to a cheap portable CD player/boombox and and a nice stereo?


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> Follow-up:  I've been doing some more reading on this subject.  Here's another tip when using a USB DAC, but especially when using a USB-powered DAC...
> 
> *Set your screen saver to black out the display*.  Graphics adapters can generate noise on the power bus -and- even when running a laptop on AC power instead of battery, the display requires a lot of current that could affect the power available at the USB port.


 
   
  Just an aside, I've read in a few places that the left USB port on my MBA is much cleaner than the right, being on a more isolated portion of the USB bus (ie. separated from display).  I'm not sure if this follows for other machines, but it might be something worth looking into.
   
  Personally, if there's any difference to my ears it's slight, certainly something I would fail at distinguishing in a blind test.


----------



## bobeau

I've gone ahead and purchased a lightly used newer version of the TG!334/000 which should arrive early next week... anyone used one of these with the ME (or DF for that matter)?


----------



## zilch0md

Quote: 





netdog said:


> So that would then apply equally to a headless computer like my Mini then? Despite there being no display, the graphics coprocessor certainly must be painting the display images.


 
   
  I would think so, yes.


----------



## Aerocraft67

Quote: 





whereas said:


> There some kind of subconscious thing that I have that when I see a mini-jack line out vs two separate RCA connectors for audio, it seems inferior. The Meridian obviously has the mini-jack. Is this suitable for use as a DAC that would then go to a dedicated amp via mini jack?


 
   
  Yeah, I kind of feel the same way. My heart looks at mini-jack and thinks, lo-fi mass market portable stuff. My head looks at it and says, supremely universal and convenient. I don't have the technical knowledge to opine on whether the connection is truly inferior to the full size headphone jack or dual RCA. Even if there is a performance sacrifice in the smaller jack, it seems reasonable to have one in such a small device (actually, two in the case of Explorer).
   
  But if you look at professional studio monitors, you don't see mini jacks, but you do see the single jacks of the non-RCA variety (many don't have RCA at all). And mini-to-RCA cables are available, and available from "audiophile-grade" suppliers, with no inferiority implied in the implementation. I suppose we should poke around with some research to confirm one way or the other, but I suspect we're just harboring a false bias against the mini jack, and that it's not inferior to other connections.


----------



## Aerocraft67

Quote: 





markm1 said:


> I'm something of a newbie. I've been listening to a pair of Grado 225i's for a few weeks. Honestly, they sound pretty good plugged into a decent Onyko CD player I have, but I decided it made sense to get a decent amp so I purchased the Asg 2.
> 
> And these cans are tolerable straight into my computer HP jack which has generic hardware. Not great, but OK. I'm really wondering how different it will sound w/ a DAC? I'm willing to spend some money, but I would be, let's say-quite annoyed to spend over $200 with imperceptible differences in sound. So, I would say, I am willing to spend a moderate amount of money (few hundreds) for a good price point value that feels well spent.
> 
> I'm sure it's very subjective, but how would you characterize the bump up in sound quality with a decent DAC? Is it similar, for example to the difference between listening to a cheap portable CD player/boombox and and a nice stereo?


 
   
  If you're investing $250 in an A2, I don't think it's overkill to invest in an outboard DAC, and entry-level yet worthwhile DACs like Explorer go for $250-$300. That gets you a DAC that sufficiently outperforms your stock computer DAC. I'm pretty comfortable characterizing the performance upgrade as worthwhile and worth the money, but it's your $300.
   
  Then again, you may already be getting a decent DAC for your needs in your CD player, but that's just for your CDs. I'd argue that computer audio (playing digital files rather than discs) is eclipsing CD playing, and you'll want to maintain your system accordingly. I just re-ripped much of my collection, hopefully for the last time, and it's been great to rediscover music I had just sitting arouund in albums without the patience to get them out and play them individually. 
   
  Overall, personally, I like to ensure my hi-fi spending favors the headphones and speakers over sources and amps, and I think this is pretty conventional wisdom. Almost impossible to put a number on it, but at some point it doesn't make sense to spend four figures on DACs and amps when you're listening to cheap headphones. My latest thinking is that no one component should cost more than the headphones or speakers. So, if you're buying a $250 amp and $300 DAC, that suggests you might want to ensure your speakers or headphones cost at least $300, or that you have your eye on ones that do as a future upgrade.


----------



## markm1

Quote: 





aerocraft67 said:


> If you're investing $250 in an A2, I don't think it's overkill to invest in an outboard DAC, and entry-level yet worthwhile DACs like Explorer go for $250-$300. That gets you a DAC that sufficiently outperforms your stock computer DAC. I'm pretty comfortable characterizing the performance upgrade as worthwhile and worth the money, but it's your $300.
> 
> Then again, you may already be getting a decent DAC for your needs in your CD player, but that's just for your CDs. I'd argue that computer audio (playing digital files rather than discs) is eclipsing CD playing, and you'll want to maintain your system accordingly. I just re-ripped much of my collection, hopefully for the last time, and it's been great to rediscover music I had just sitting arouund in albums without the patience to get them out and play them individually.
> 
> Overall, personally, I like to ensure my hi-fi spending favors the headphones and speakers over sources and amps, and I think this is pretty conventional wisdom. Almost impossible to put a number on it, but at some point it doesn't make sense to spend four figures on DACs and amps when you're listening to cheap headphones. My latest thinking is that no one component should cost more than the headphones or speakers. So, if you're buying a $250 amp and $300 DAC, that suggests you might want to ensure your speakers or headphones cost at least $300, or that you have your eye on ones that do as a future upgrade.


 
  Thank you-that makes a lot of sense. I appreciate the thought and time you took to answer my question-very helpful.


----------



## Painterspal

I’ve had the Meridian Explorer USB DAC for almost a week now and have also been using it with the iFi iUSB Power for the last few days days, so I thought I’d post a few impressions now I’ve had a little time to enjoy both products and compare them to a couple of other options I have available.
   
  The context to this is that I thought I’d try a USB DAC because I had problems with serious mains noise when using my AC-powered DAC (the $900 Audio GD Reference 5.2) with my Icon Audio tube head amp in my desk-top rig. Using the 5.2’s XLR out to my Violectric v200 I had no hum issues and the Audio GD is now working well in balanced mode as part of my main speaker rig, but that didn’t solve my tube headphone amp issue.
   
  I’d planned to audition the Resonessence Labs Concero but that isn’t readily available in the UK. By chance the Meridian Explorer just happened to be launched at the same time I was checking out the options. I’m an admirer of Meridian and have used their gear extensively, the initial reviews were good and, although a desk DAC was my primary requirement, the additional flexibility might also be useful so I took the plunge. Actually, price was a factor too. The Explorer isn’t particularly expensive so I figured there wasn’t too much to loose.
   
  But could a cheap USB DAC really cut the mustard with my revealing HD800?
   
  The Meridian Explorer functions as a DAC, USB converter and a headphone amplifier but my comments only apply to its performance in the former function. I’ll get straight to the point by issuing a health warning. Anyone who dislikes hyperbole and gushing enthusiasm should read no further. In my rig, the combination of Meridian Explorer and iFi iUSB Power is simply outstanding and so far above my expectations that I keep having to pinch myself. Its like I literally can’t believe my ears!
   
  The quality of the sound is so good that it has frequently made comparisons difficult. I start a track and quickly forget that I’m listening to what the DAC/power supply is doing; I just get completely absorbed with the music itself. Whole albums pass by – I was even late for work one day!
   
  The rig I’m using is:
   
  MacBook Pro running Fidelia
  iFi standard blue USB cable
  iFi iUSB power supply
  Wireworld Starlight USB cable
  Meridian Explorer
  Toxic cables silver widow 3.5mini jack to twin RCA cable
  Icon Audio HP8 Mk2 tube amp/Violectric v200
  Sennheiser HD800
   



   
   
  For comparison I’ve used my Audio GD in balanced mode to the Violectric using the same front end. I’ve also used my iBasso DX100 as an alternative source/DAC, using its analogue out jack.
   
  Before sticking the knife in, please be aware that what follows are _impressions_ – I haven’t attempted a formal comparison review and it’s still early days. But having listened to a variety of head gear lately, and having put a lot of effort into refining my desk rig, I feel confident of the opinions I’m expressing.
   
*Listening impressions*
   
  On it’s own I’d say that the Meridian Explorer is a fine budget DAC and excellent value for money. It has it’s own sonic character that I’d describe as being essentially neutral, very slightly lean compared to my slightly dark Audio GD, strong on PRAT and overall pretty musical, though very slightly ‘digital’ in the way I find most budget DACs I’ve heard tend to be. The soundstage is well resolved (slightly soft-edged?) and the overall musical presentation is bold and convincing.
   
  Up against the DX100 and connected to the same amp I found the two quite similar with little to choose between them. Detail retrieval was about the same and it was all basically too close to call. They both sound good.
   
  The more expensive Audio GD slightly had the edge when in balanced mode with the Violectric v200, extracting a little more detail and musical subtlety from the recordings. The way the music was rendered was just a little more convincing overall – exactly as you’d expect given the price differential. That said the Meridian was far from disgraced.
   
  I don’t have other budget USB DACs to compare, but nothing I’ve heard using the Explorer would make me doubt that, on it’s own, it’s a very strong option amongst its immediate competitors.
   
*Enter the iFi iUSB power supply…*
   
  As most readers will know, the weakness of DACs that rely on the power of the USB bus is that this power supply tends to noisy. With my tube amp turned up high and no music playing, I can hear the hum/buzz produced by my laptop clearly. Disconnect the laptop’s power supply and it immediately gets quieter but it’s still there. You can’t help feeling that, at normal listening levels it must be a negative factor in the sound. After listening to the Meridian for a day I decided to try iFi’s iUSB Power to get around the problem and hopefully extract the very best that the little Explorer was capable of. Connection is straightforward and I started listening.
   
  Cue jaw drop and big smile.
   
  The impact of the power supply conditioner is immediately noticeable and simply can’t be underestimated. Less grain, blacker background and bigger soundstage, deeper soundstage, more precise spatial positioning, more detail, more realism, slightly more extended bass, less treble ‘glare’, better dynamics, better transients, better decay and timing... it’s quite remarkable.
   
  With the iUSB Power in the system the musical presentation has become more relaxed and engaging in a way that quickly silences criticism. As I mentioned at the beginning, I stopped listening to the equipment and just enjoyed the music because it sounds more like real music.
   
  You might argue that in certain details, it could still be improved (At times I detected a very slight softness in the bass for example). However, I don’t have truly top-end, $1K+ DACs to compare it with and it may just be that I'm hearing the limit of the original recordings themselves.
   
  Against my existing equipment you could say that, _on one level_, the differences are not that big. The Sabre chip-based iBasso is a very good DAP; my more expensive and highly rated Audio GD is an excellent DAC. The same could be said compared to using the ME on it’s own.  They all reproduce music well.
   
  It’s also true that the Meridian’s basic sound signature isn’t changed by the better power supply. What’s good already remains good. But the cumulative impact of the many small improvements catapult the sound into a totally different league. It’s the sort of sound that I know I could be satisfied with for a long time. What I have difficulty understanding is how it could have been produced by two relatively cheap items of equipment!
   
  The difference is most noticeable with high-resolution files. I’ve been listening to the sublime Linn recordings of the late Mozart symphonies by the Scottish Chamber Orchestra under Charles Mackerras. Using the Explorer/iFi IUSB combination, the way the illusion of the orchestra and hall is realised is quite remarkable and the added ability to ‘see into the mix’ enables you to enjoy these wonderful scores in all their glory. It’s easy to hear what individual players are doing and to follow the different musical lines while still being conscious of the whole – it’s truly addictive.
   
  But ALAC rips from red book CDs get the same treatment. The emotional impact of Diana Krall’s performance of ‘A case of you’ from ‘Live in Paris’ was much greater than I’ve experienced before. I could hear all sorts of subtle intonation in her singing that I’d never previously noticed. And I wasn’t straining to hear things, it was readily apparent.
   
  I could go on and on and it’s also clear that less refined pop/rock recordings get similar treatment. There seems to be more presence and better instrument separation irrespective of what I’m listening to although, ultimately, bad recording still sound bad. I keep thinking that next time I listen the novelty will rub off and I’ll come to my senses but, so far, that hasn’t happened. I’m also not going to say that it does a particularly fine job with, say, human voices, or some other particular. What I’m hearing is an improvement with _everything_. The quality of the overall presentation is very balanced and even handed.
   
  Of course, I mustn’t generalise outside of my own listening experience. These are _my_ impressions on _my_ rig – your mileage may vary.
   
*Conclusions so far…*
   
  So is this the magic bullet, Champagne sound for beer money prices? The answer for me, so far, is yes.  The sound is detailed, poised, lush, un-fatiguing and effortless – very un-digital. It’s a bit like the difference I’ve sometimes heard comparing good CD-based systems with vinyl. Both sound great but only one sounds ‘real’.
   
  I have heard better sound from headphone rigs, but only through much more high end systems. For me, the Meridian Explorer, used together with the iFi iUSB power supply is a giant killer of a set up.
   
  Highly recommended.


----------



## Aerocraft67

Nice work, Painterspal, thanks. In a sense, the Exporer+iUSB amounts to a $500 DAC, which buys a lot of performance in 2013, even in the sky's-the-limit hi-fi market. This helps put your very positive results in a plausible context.


----------



## Painterspal

Quote: 





aerocraft67 said:


> Nice work, Painterspal, thanks. In a sense, the Exporer+iUSB amounts to a $500 DAC, which buys a lot of performance in 2013, even in the sky's-the-limit hi-fi market. This helps put your very positive results in a plausible context.


 

 You're right. There's probably a critical point where the law of diminishing returns starts to cut in big time. I've no idea where that is with USB DACs - I'm simply not qualified to judge. However, I obviously feel that what I'm hearing is very good value at that price. In fact I'd have happily paid a lot more for it.


----------



## bobeau

Damn... I really wish I were in a position to use an iUSB.  I remember how much an improvement an AQVOX ps made on my old AP2.  I'm sure this is in another league.  Alas, I need my setup to be ultra portable and have no desk/desktop system to integrate into.
   
  Cheers, thanks for the Painterspal.  
   
  I'm curious about the Starlight... now that's something I can do.  I'm still somewhat dubious about the improvements USB cables can make though (in my old system I had an Ultraviolet and had trouble discerning the difference, but then again that was with the AQVOX filtering).


----------



## MoonUnit

Painterspal, thanks for the detailed review. I really appreciated your comments.
   
  One question: most of your comments vis-a-vis the Audio-Gd Ref 5.2 are before you added the iUSB. After you added the iUSB, how would you say the two units compared? Was the Meridian still a bit digital sounding relative to the Ref 5.2, or were they roughly on par at that point?


----------



## Painterspal

Quote: 





moonunit said:


> Painterspal, thanks for the detailed review. I really appreciated your comments.
> 
> One question: most of your comments vis-a-vis the Audio-Gd Ref 5.2 are before you added the iUSB. After you added the iUSB, how would you say the two units compared? Was the Meridian still a bit digital sounding relative to the Ref 5.2, or were they roughly on par at that point?


 
   
  Good point. I didn't directly compare the Audio GD to the Meridian once I'd added the iUSB. However, I easily could and will do so soon. But I'm pretty sure I know the answer already, the Meridian/iUSB combo seems clearly the best USB DAC I've used in my desktop rig. I think the Audio GD may be nearer using optical, which is how I use it in my speaker rig downstairs, and that would be an interesting test which I'll also do.
   
  But no, the Meridian/iUSB combination isn't digital sounding at all, quite the opposite.


----------



## zilch0md

Thanks Painterspal,
   
  That was so well written - and credible! 
   
  Quote: 





painterspal said:


> *Enter the iFi iUSB power supply…*
> 
> [snip]
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  I think what we've learned here is that the Meridian Explorer is a very capable DAC, made all the better with clean power.  Clean power alone cannot make music.   
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I'm all set for desktop DACs in this price range, but your enthusiasm tempts me to order a Meridian + iFi iUSBPower - just to see if I'm missing out on anything.
   
  In fact, it makes me wonder what could be achieved with the iFi iUSBPower and the $50 Stoner Acoustics UD100 USB DAC  (an ESS9023 DAC, like the Audioquest Dragonfly, the JDS LabsObjective DAC, and the HiFimeDIY USB DAC, but having a USB receiver chip that's not capable of 96/24).  
   
  When I had a UD100, I found it to be quite sensitive to noise from my laptop's AC adapter, but there wasn't a problem (at least not a problem of which I was aware) when running the laptop on battery power.  Truth be known, as with your Explorer, it could have been all the better with the iFi iUSBpower.
   
  Thanks again!
   
  Mike


----------



## Maxx134

If we agree that batteries are cleanest sources of power. 
Maybe buying an extended battery for your laptop to use when using an usb/dac could be a compromise solution, if your objective is total price point. 

Edit: then again that's no guarantee for the motherboard to not have it's own interference in the usb power, but this must have been thought of already by the manufacturers


----------



## dwong

I'm glad to hear that the Meridian Explorer seems to benefit significantly with a cleaner power source.  I would imagine any USB powered DAC/amp would benefit from the iFI iUSB as well, especially those with _dirtier_ electrical environments and sources.  I for one hear no discernible laptop hum/buzz with the Meridian Explorer, regardless of whether I use my headphones directly into its headphone out, or if my laptop is running on battery power or plugged into the wall, or with my Leckerton UHA-6s.mkii (cranked to full volume on high gain) fed into the ME's optical out.  This gives me the impression that the benefits of the iFI iUSB would be quite variable and is probably dependent on many factors that could _contaminate _one's electrical signal.        
   
  Call me a critic, but one of the main appeals of the Meridian Explorer for me was its simple and portable form factor.  That's what products like the Meridian Explorer and the Audioquest Dragonfly were designed for -practicality with performance in mind- and it certainly serves as a good option for better laptop/computer sound in a small plug and play form factor without sacrificing desk clutter.  Adding another device to the entire chain strictly for portable use (especially one that would require an additional power outlet and wires such as the iFi iUSB) seems to me like it would just defeats the purpose-unless you intend to use it as a part of a desktop setup.  And if that were the case, you'd have to ask the question:_ does it rival a similarly priced desktop setup? _ If the answer is no, then it's just another glorified portable DAC/amp - which may have great value relative to its immediate competitors- but is still at the end of the day, a portable DAC with the compromises that come along with a portable form factor.  The contagious hype on these forums can typically lead to the notions that new toys such as these can not only sound better, but can "kill" pricier setups.  The idea that's starting to trend on this thread now is that the ME has the potential to even "kill" full-sized desktop setups.  I tend to stay on the skeptical side of things for the new things that pop up here that get all the hustle and bustle, and I'll wait for further impressions and comparisons to paint a better picture of what this budding _giant killer_ is truly capable of.


----------



## Aerocraft67

dwong raises some good points about turning portable devices into less portable daisy-chained systems. Were I to get an iUSBPower, I'd definitely start to look for a mini equipment rack to put them in. I happen to use a riser for my laptop, which makes the Explorer dangle precariously from the USB with stock cord, so I'm already in need of some semi-permanent equipment management. Which raises the question, maybe I should be considering a proper desktop, non-portable, device with these functions integrated into a single chassis.
   
  But what's nice about Explorer or Dragonfly is that iUSBP is optional—you do not have to get it if you do not need it. Or you can opt for it later without incurring the cost up front. And, if you get it, you can always leave it behind at the desk and port only the DAC around. 
   
  As for the hype, yes, there is excitement about the Explorer. But it's not like there's some conspiracy to tout the Explorer as the DAC to end all DACs. Given the pace of advancement in DACs right now, I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect Explorer to perform better than a DAC launched, say, two years ago at the same price or maybe even twice the price, or that it makes portable a level of performance previously limited to fixed systems. It's also not hard to imagine that it may indeed be the best DAC in its price range and form factor currently on the market, if for no other reason that it's brand new, not to mention that it comes from a venerable manufacturer of audio equipment.
   
  That said, I totally understand that hype is annoying. But, dwong, if you own an Explorer, I'm puzzled about what proof you are waiting for regarding the device's capability? Not trying to pick a fight with you there, just sounds strange.


----------



## swmtnbiker

Quote: 





painterspal said:


> I’ve had the Meridian Explorer USB DAC for almost a week now and have also been using it with the iFi iUSB Power for the last few days days, so I thought I’d post a few impressions now I’ve had a little time to enjoy both products and compare them to a couple of other options I have available.


 
   
  Thanks for the in-depth, thoughtful, thorough review. Very well done.


----------



## Armaegis

Quote: 





maxx134 said:


> If we agree that batteries are cleanest sources of power.


 
   
  I've read arguments that a well designed linear regulated supply can be cleaner than batteries. *shrug*


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





armaegis said:


> I've read arguments that a well designed linear regulated supply can be cleaner than batteries. *shrug*


 
   
   
  Unfortunately, most of those threads seem to end up in Sound Science - may I humbly suggest that we return to the discussion of the DAC and amp sections of the ME ? Not trying to be a buzzkill here - I totally *get* what you guys are saying - but we do seem to be straying off topic. I was about to post links to the RWA power supply, then realised just how silly that would be for a $299 DAC/amp.  Let's try to keep it real, folks.


----------



## dwong

Quote: 





aerocraft67 said:


> That said, I totally understand that hype is annoying. But, dwong, if you own an Explorer, I'm puzzled about what proof you are waiting for regarding the device's capability? Not trying to pick a fight with you there, just sounds strange.


 
  Waiting for the "new shiny thing" sonic bias to wear off my own ears.  Didn't mean to come off bashing on the ME- I do think that it does sound very good for what it is.  However, from my past experience, portable systems are a step below an equivalently priced desktop system. Though my opinions might be slightly outdated, as I've been away from a desktop setup for the past four years, I think it would take a dramatic development in technology for portable gear to catch up to, let alone surpass, the performance of a similarly priced desktop system.  Thus for a portable to be a _giant killer_ and accomplish exactly that seems like milestone achievement in the audiophile world.  
   
  As of now, I don't have a desktop system to a/b it to, and I don't trust my memory to compare my old desktop rig's performance to that of the ME.  I am wondering what the verdict would be if one were to a/b an "up to date" $500'ish desktop setup with the iFI USB/ME combo.  At around that price range, there are plenty of combinations of desktop setups that could be worthy for comparison.


----------



## MoonUnit

I don't think it's necessarily unfair to compare this to desktop DACs, even without the iUSB. I'd be very interested in a comparison with the Resonessence Concero, which is sort of the same thing: USB powered, XMOS interface, a DAC chip with roughly the same performance specs, minimum phase digital filters, etc., just two and a half times more expensive.


----------



## Maxx134

A desktop setup of similar caliber technology would automatically imply a power supply stage, a bigger, probably metalic housing, more options and some sort of display. 
So I would assume a desktop setup of this caliber to be substantially more money..
So in essence it can be a giant killer.. even with same technology. .


----------



## Leslie Dorner

If someone would post more information about the ME and Linux specifically Ubuntu, then I would appreciate it. What is meant by low volume output in Ubuntu? I looked at the solution, but it doesn't make much sense to me and I'm Ubuntu certified. My question is about the ME part of the solution which needs further explanation for me to get it. Thanks.


----------



## netdog

Mine just shipped and arrives tomorrow.
   
  I have very clean power in my flat.  My integrated amp doesn't hum at all.  
   
  Please tell me I won't necessarily needed one of these iFi USB power supplies to get decent results.

 FWIW, computer is a 2011 Mini.


----------



## Carlsan

It's probably posted already, sorry for my laziness, but where can you find the  iFi USB power?
Saw it on ebay for $225 plus shipping and that seemed high.


----------



## plakat

Quote: 





netdog said:


> Mine just shipped and arrives tomorrow.
> 
> I have very clean power in my flat.  My integrated amp doesn't hum at all.
> 
> ...


 
   
  In all probability you won't need that thing.


----------



## TooPoor

Am I allowed to say that I have a brand new, in the box, Explorer for sale?? See my sig. Not sure if it's against the rules, apologies if it is!


----------



## plakat

You might be better off in the "For Sale" forum: http://www.head-fi.org/f/41/for-sale-trade-forums


----------



## telecaster

Meridian always had one of the cleanest mutli power supply in all their DACs... The Ifi advertisement is a non sense here, as the Meridian is already such a clean sounding DAC...
  All the good rap about the Explorer isn't because it's the new toy in town, it is just because it is a Meridian DAC that comes at 300 bux folks, and all the older audiophile folks around here know how expensive that brand is. If you want a better DAC than the Meridian, you would have to put a lot more money on the table.


----------



## TooPoor

So I'm temporarily deciding to keep my Explorer and test it against a Bifrost I have coming in. Can anyone comment on how they compare? I might just end up using the Explorer with my Apex Glacier for a portable rig.... Thoughts?


----------



## Radio_head

New Head-Fi Meridian review is up.  Looks like that rascally Purrin is up to it again, harshing our buzz.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





radio_head said:


> New Head-Fi Meridian review is up.  Looks like that rascally Purrin is up to it again, harshing our buzz.


 
   
  "Excessively forgiving and polite?  _Sounds like a Brit to me."  _


----------



## telecaster

that review is a joke, the guy is on his rashes.. Who can believe those childish statements like : the computer out is better.. yeah right...
  And he bears with classical music except the romantic movement, oh let's bow in front of him!... maybe he is joking?!


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





telecaster said:


> that review is a joke, the guy is on his rashes.. Who can believe those childish statements like : the computer out is better.. yeah right...
> And he bears with classical music except the romantic movement, oh let's bow in front of him!... maybe he is joking?!


 
   
  It wasn't so much a review or a joke but an amusing, thinly veiled attack on a certain mindset... the ME was more of a prop.


----------



## Aerocraft67

Quote: 





telecaster said:


> Meridian always had one of the cleanest mutli power supply in all their DACs... The Ifi advertisement is a non sense here, as the Meridian is already such a clean sounding DAC...


 
   
  Doesn't mean Meridian's power suppies in its expensive kit extend to its $300 portable DAC, which is precisely the kind of device iUSBPower is designed to pair with, and mentioning that doesn't constitute an "iFi advertisement," and it's certainly not nonsense.


----------



## Aerocraft67

Quote: 





carlsan said:


> It's probably posted already, sorry for my laziness, but where can you find the  iFi USB power?
> Saw it on ebay for $225 plus shipping and that seemed high.


 
   
  Try Stereodesk.


----------



## mikemercer

I just got the iFi iUSB PowerPlant!  Crazy, I named an article the "Birth if iFi" in 2009 in PFO and now I see products w/ that name! Mind-boggling,
  so I reached out to them and got the unit.
   
  It works brilliants w/ my Sonicweld Diverter going into my dCs Purcell & Delius DAC.
  I'm going to try it w/ other units ASAP!!
   
  looks like they do great work thus far...


----------



## zilch0md

Yeah, for those who are considering the Meridian Explorer, I would discourage any thinking that it can't perform well in the absence of an external 5V power supply.  Seriously, if you buy the Meridian Explorer and don't hear any noise or hum, then your USB port is most likely providing sufficiently clean power from your laptop or PC.  The End.    
   
  But if you buy the Explorer (or _any other USB-powered DAC_) and you do hear noise, or hum, or you later just want to find out for yourself if things can be improved when using the _portable _DAC as a desktop solution, then go for it  - spend another $199 for the iFi iUSBPower.   (Say goodbye to portable operation, and say hello to the AC outlet.)  
   
  This reminds me of how I felt when everyone got excited about using a 15V external battery pack to power the Meier Audio Stepdance - unanimously finding that the Stepdance sounded better when running on 15VDC than when using an internal 9V battery - even Jan Meier said so.   Next thing you know, everyone is thinking the Stepdance is no good without the 15V battery.  Wrong!   It's just better with the 15V battery thanks to everything that improves with an increase in power.
   
  In the case of the Meridian Explorer, _there is no guarantee that it will actually sound better with the iFi iUSBPower_ _on your equipment - with any USB-powered DAC_, depending on how clean (dirty) your PC or laptop's USB power is.  It could easily be clean enough to make the iFi iUSBPower a waste of money.
   
  Don't fix what ain't broken.
   
  Mike


----------



## telecaster

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> Yeah, for those who are considering the Meridian Explorer, I would discourage any thinking that it can't perform well in the absence of an external 5V power supply.  Seriously, if you buy the Meridian Explorer and don't hear any noise or hum, then your USB port is most likely providing sufficiently clean power from your laptop or PC.  The End.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


 
  +1453


----------



## plakat

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> In the case of the Meridian Explorer, _there is no guarantee that it will actually sound better with the iFi iUSBPower_ _on your equipment - with any USB-powered DAC_, depending on how clean (dirty) your PC or laptop's USB power is.  It could easily be clean enough to make the iFi iUSBPower a waste of money.
> 
> Don't fix what ain't broken.
> 
> Mike


 
   
  Exactly. And if power *is* your problem I'd seriously consider an altogether different approach, i.e. a desktop DAC with a good power supply of its own.


----------



## Clemmaster

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> So I'm temporarily deciding to keep my Explorer and test it against a Bifrost I have coming in. Can anyone comment on how they compare? I might just end up using the Explorer with my Apex Glacier for a portable rig.... Thoughts?


 
   
  Could you compare the Explorer and the Glacier? Both standalone (with their own DAC).
  Thanks


----------



## Carlsan

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> ...
> In the case of the Meridian Explorer, _there is no guarantee that it will actually sound better with the iFi iUSBPower_ _on your equipment - with any USB-powered DAC_, depending on how clean (dirty) your PC or laptop's USB power is.  It could easily be clean enough to make the iFi iUSBPower a waste of money.
> 
> Don't fix what ain't broken.
> ...


 
   
  Well said and agree.


----------



## netdog

My Explorer has arrived.


----------



## markm1

Quote: 





markm1 said:


> Thanks for the info...should have been more clear, actually I am waiting for an Asgard 2-which is on back-order and looking at DAC options.
> 
> I'm something of a newbie. I've been listening to a pair of Grado 225i's for a few weeks. Honestly, they sound pretty good plugged into a decent Onyko CD player I have, but I decided it made sense to get a decent amp so I purchased the Asg 2.
> 
> ...


 
  Has anyone posted a comparison between the Explorer and a Billfrost or Modi?
   
  Since I'm getting an Asgard, I've been debating a Modi or Billfrost. I'm curious how Explorer would stack against the Schiit stacks.


----------



## Armaegis

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> Don't fix what ain't broken.
> 
> Mike


 
   
  What is this nonsense on head-fi? Are we not the land of overkill and unnecessary yet peer-justified purchases?


----------



## TooPoor

Quote: 





markm1 said:


> Has anyone posted a comparison between the Explorer and a Billfrost or Modi?
> 
> Since I'm getting an Asgard, I've been debating a Modi or Billfrost. I'm curious how Explorer would stack against the Schiit stacks.


 

  I should be able to compare the two in a couple days. Bifrost is coming in tomorrow. Had the Modi. Have the Explorer now.


----------



## markm1

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> I should be able to compare the two in a couple days. Bifrost is coming in tomorrow. Had the Modi. Have the Explorer now.


 
  Excellent-I'll be reading w/ great interest!
   
  Cheers


----------



## netdog

It may be a bag of hurt as the review said this morning, but I can tell you this without burn in or anything else.
   
  After suffering with the Airport Express analog out into my amp for years, the Explorer has brought my music to life again.
   
  I'll give a more considered view once I've had it for a week or so.
   
  But hey, tonight, this thing is WONDERFUL.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





armaegis said:


> What is this nonsense on head-fi? Are we not the land of overkill and unnecessary yet peer-justified purchases?


 
   
  I hear ya, big A, but I think the advice given earlier does make sense : if you are happy with a component out of the box, why run around looking for ways to complicate your life ? Possibly the only exception to that I can think of centres around the consistent arguments made by the likes of Chris Connaker, John Darko and many on HF for USB-SPDIF converters. That said, if you are happy with the ME out of the box, why would you look for more gear to throw at the (non-existent) problem ?  I dont have a problem with tweaks, but surely one of the big attractions of something that runs from USB power is that it *runs from USB power* ....


----------



## teofilrocks

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> I dont have a problem with tweaks, but surely one of the big attractions of something that runs from USB power is that it *runs from USB power* ....


 
   
  That's what I like. And that it doesn't take up much space, and that it looks great, and that it's $300! Kind of defeats the purpose for me to add an iUSB that takes up more desk space, requires external power, costs an extra $200, and looks like a miniature amp that sits in your trunk (aka: ugly), lol.


----------



## Painterspal

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> Yeah, for those who are considering the Meridian Explorer, I would discourage any thinking that it can't perform well in the absence of an external 5V power supply.  Seriously, if you buy the Meridian Explorer and don't hear any noise or hum, then your USB port is most likely providing sufficiently clean power from your laptop or PC.  The End.
> 
> But if you buy the Explorer (or _any other USB-powered DAC_) and you do hear noise, or hum, or you later just want to find out for yourself if things can be improved when using the _portable _DAC as a desktop solution, then go for it  - spend another $199 for the iFi iUSBPower.   (Say goodbye to portable operation, and say hello to the AC outlet.)
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Quote: 





			
				teofilrocks said:
			
		

> That's what I like. And that it doesn't take up much space, and that it looks great, and that it's $300! Kind of defeats the purpose for me to add an iUSB that takes up more desk space, requires external power, costs an extra $200, and looks like a miniature amp that sits in your trunk (aka: ugly), lol.


 
   
   
  I agree with you up to a point. The ME is clearly designed to be portable and it is counter intuitive to burden it with additional equipment. And if you're happy with the sound then there's really no reason to fix anything.
   
  However, I wouldn't say that just because you can't _hear_ hum that the USB power supply is necessarily clean. My impression, both from what I've read and what I've now heard, is that USB power _is_ dirty (to a greater or lesser extent) and will impact on the sound of a USB-powered DAC (to a greater or lesser extent), depending how it's implemented. It's a design compromise. In my rig the iUSB improved the sound of my tube amp which buzzed/hummed at high volume and the Violectric which didn't. It improved both to a similar extent.
   
  Until a few more people try it, we simply don't know whether the impact of the iFi iUSBPower on the ME (or any other USB-powered device) is consistent or not. It may only make a big difference in rigs with an unusually 'dirty' power supply like mine, but it may make a positive difference in all rigs.
   
  Personally, while I like the form factor and appearance of the ME, and I'm glad of the portability, I'm more pleased to have got even better sound out of it. I really don't mind if it looks a bit more cluttered on my desk as long as it sounds fabulous (which it does).
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  That said, I was very interested in purrin's comments and digging beneath the rhetoric and the playing to the gallery he's making a serious point. I haven't done any testing of the headphone out, except to ascertain that it worked. My main interest is in it's performance as a DAC. Irrespective of his findings regarding it's performance as a headphone amp, it's definitely an excellent DAC on the basis of my listening so far.


----------



## Painterspal

Sorry, I meant to add, thanks to all for your comments about my earlier impressions - glad it was useful.


----------



## Armaegis

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> I hear ya, big A, but I think the advice given earlier does make sense : if you are happy with a component out of the box, *why run around looking for ways to complicate your life ? *


 
   
  Because in headfi (or any hobby/activity really), the curiosity and desire for new toys and peer pressure makes us unsatisfied with our current ones. 
   
  /devil's advocate
   
  /says the guy who started climbing the ladder, said fug it and sold a bunch of stuff, then started slowly climbing again, and is currently in his second or third phase of fug it and trying to sell stuff


----------



## estreeter

Fair enough - not denying the lure of shiny new boxes, and I'd love about 50 of them delivred to my door right now, but in this case anything which impacts portability is, to my way of thinking, undesirable. I have never needed a USB hub or any other form of external power with my MSII, and my Tosh laptop is a POS ....


----------



## teofilrocks

Well, I needed a DAC so just bought the Explorer from TTVJ. Let's see how this goes...


----------



## 2NE1

I wonder how this dac compares to centrance.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





teofilrocks said:


> Well, I needed a DAC so just bought the Explorer from TTVJ. Let's see how this goes...


 
   
  Sensational effort teofilrocks - can you please keep us updated re shipping confirmation ? There seems to be some confusion as to just how much stock Todd has, and whether he is still waiting on a second batch.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## lalala6

Any other sites to purchase the Explorer, besides TTVJ? I could not purchase from TTVJ for some reason...


----------



## FlySweep

> Originally Posted by *estreeter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Sensational effort teofilrocks - can you please keep us updated re shipping confirmation ? There seems to be some confusion as to just how much stock Todd has, and whether he is still waiting on a second batch.
> 
> Thanks.


 
   
  I'm pretty sure the second batch arrived on Monday since my order (placed almost two weeks ago on 3/14) shipped on Monday. I asked for a status on my order last Friday & TTVJ said the ME's come in fairly small batches (10/batch) & they're flying off the shelves as fast as they arrive.


----------



## Aerocraft67

Quote: 





lalala6 said:


> Any other sites to purchase the Explorer, besides TTVJ? I could not purchase from TTVJ for some reason...


 
   
  Nothing personal lalala6, but Groundhog Day was earlier this month, so I don't know what's going on here. This is at least the third post moaning that TTVJ is out of stock, along with breathless commentary about his inventory, yet I've posted an alternative supplier at least twice. I'd post it again, but I'm in no mood for some wiseacre to pop up and accuse me of shilling for the supplier, which has more or less already happened, even though I did little more than report where I bought mine. I'm not a big fan of shouting "do a search" or "let me google that for you," and I admit that I happened upon my supplier on another site frequented by "Computer Audiophile" types that I won't mention here for fear of drawing ire from our host (although it is a prominent sponsor there, with a flashing banner ad that says something like, "Meridian Explorer, in stock and shipping"), but this is really getting tedious.


----------



## lalala6

Quote: 





aerocraft67 said:


> Nothing personal lalala6, but Groundhog Day was earlier this month, so I don't know what's going on here. This is at least the third post moaning that TTVJ is out of stock, along with breathless commentary about his inventory, yet I've posted an alternative supplier at least twice. I'd post it again, but I'm in no mood for some wiseacre to pop up and accuse me of shilling for the supplier, which has more or less already happened, even though I did little more than report where I bought mine. I'm not a big fan of shouting "do a search" or "let me google that for you," and I admit that I happened upon my supplier on another site frequented by "Computer Audiophile" types that I won't mention here for fear of drawing ire from our host (although it is a prominent sponsor there, with a flashing banner ad that says something like, "Meridian Explorer, in stock and shipping"), but this is really getting tedious.


 
  Sorry, but I think you got it wrong, I wasn't complaining about it being out of stock, I couldn't purchase it for a totally different reason. And I totally didn't know about it being out of stock. Also sorry as I should have checked the previous pages for alternative sites before posting the question. Thanks for letting us know about the alternative supplier though, I hope I'll be able to get an Explorer soon enough.


----------



## teofilrocks

estreeter said:


> Sensational effort teofilrocks - can you please keep us updated re shipping confirmation ? There seems to be some confusion as to just how much stock Todd has, and whether he is still waiting on a second batch.
> 
> Thanks.




Sure thing.


----------



## zilch0md

Quote: 





lalala6 said:


> Any other sites to purchase the Explorer, besides TTVJ? I could not purchase from TTVJ for some reason...


 
   
  Hi lalala6,
   
  You kind of stepped into the middle of a contention that has nothing to do with you - so no worries.
   
  Here you go:  http://www.theaudiosalon.com/brands/meridian/meridian-explorer/
   
  Thanks for finding this Aerocraft67.  Sincerely.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  
   
  Mike


----------



## zilch0md

Quote: 





painterspal said:


> I agree with you up to a point.


 
   
  Hey Painterspal,
   
  At the risk of sounding conflicted, I have to say I am still very intrigued by your findings. It's just that I was troubled when I saw a post asking if the Meridian Explorer wouldn't sound good without the external power supply.  I just want to make sure everyone sets their goals first - portable operation vs. desktop operation.  
   
  I am, nevertheless, a clean-power freak and don't doubt for a minute that you are hearing obvious improvements when willing to be tethered to an AC outlet.  And I can even embrace the possibility that all USB power is dirty to some degree - as you have argued.  So, I'm very appreciative of your impressions, while remaining steadfast in reminding people that they might not have the same experience as you have, when willing to use the Meridian Explorer as a desktop DAC on external AC power.
   
  Indeed, Michael Lavorgna (www.audiostream.com) wrote that after hearing great improvements using the iUSBPower with his Audioquest Dragonfly, he said he was surprised to find that he heard no improvements when using it with a different USB-powered DAC on the same PC, same USB port.   So...  there are a lot of variables here, including the "power-cleaning" capabilities of the portable DAC itself, at which I believe the CEntrance DACport LX, excels, for example.
   
  Ultimately, as with all audio gear, no one can know with certainty what they're missing, if anything, without buying or borrowing a component, to test in their own equipment chain.  I don't hear any noise problems (or lack of micro details) with my USB-powered DACport LX when comparing it to my AC-powered DACmini CX (with my laptop, my headphones, my ears).  I remain, however, very curious about the possibility that a $199 external power supply could make a difference with my DACport LX, but I'm not willing to spend the money to find out - I'm content for now.
   
  That said, for someone who doesn't own an AC-powered desktop DAC, _but wants a portable DAC to do double-duty_, the iUSBPower seems like a worthwhile experiment.
   
  Thanks again for your very credible comments!
   
  Mike


----------



## feverfive

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  FWIW, I ordered the Explorer on Sunday, Feb 17, I think.  I sent Todd an inquiry a couple days later & he responded saying he was getting limited stock at end of week.  Mine did ship out on 2/25, and it looks like it'll be delivered tomorrow, 2/28...  He implied that that batch he rec'd was not sufficient to meet current demand/orders placed


----------



## PhilW

The outer box is pretty understated I must say!


----------



## Painterspal

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> Hey Painterspal,
> 
> At the risk of sounding conflicted, I have to say I am still very intrigued by your findings. It's just that I was troubled when I saw a post asking if the Meridian Explorer wouldn't sound good without the external power supply.  I just want to make sure everyone sets their goals first - portable operation vs. desktop operation.
> 
> ...


 

 No problem and I pretty much agree completely with everything you say. I'd also read Michael Lavorgna's comments. I assume it's down to how the power supply is implemented but I have no technical knowledge so it's pure speculation. As with most things, most likely the more you pay the better it gets and with better DACs there's probably less need for what the iUSB can do. I also agree with the views others have expressed that "a good big 'un will usually beat a good little 'un" when comparing desktop to portable equipment. To be honest no one can be more surprised than me that the iUSB has had such a positive influence on the ME's sound. I'm also kind of disappointed too because power supplies are so boring! As I said, in time we'll have more inputs as others try the iUSB so perhaps some greater clarity will emerge.
   
  Your comment on the Stepdance hit the spot. I've only just recently given mine to my son and was one of those that bought a linear power supply, only to then think "why have I done this?" I do think there's more of a case for using a portable DAC as part of a semi-fixed rig, but the point was well made!


----------



## teofilrocks

I was talking with Brian at TTVJ just now. He said Meridian has only been able to send them about 10 units per week so far, which has temporarily held up some orders. I ordered mine last night, which he said should be fulfilled by a larger shipment they're receiving on Monday. Just FYI.


----------



## FlySweep

The main reason I went with TTVJ is cause they've got a healthy, 30-day MBG policy in the event I don't like the Explorer.  I'm unsure whether other ME vendors offer that.. but if they do, great.


----------



## feverfive

Quote: 





flysweep said:


> The main reason I went with TTVJ is cause they've got a healthy, 30-day MBG policy in the event I don't like the Explorer.  I'm unsure whether other ME vendors offer that.. but if they do, great.


 

 Likewise...  I'm hoping I like it, but it's comforting to know a reputable online shop like TTVJ has a good return policy.


----------



## estreeter

Can't say I'm surprised that they are 'flying off the shelves'. Meridian _anything_ for $300 is unheard of - throw in the glowing review from Chris Connaker (how the hell he gets gear so _quickly_ is a mystery to me) and the fact that the press release has gone beyond the usual hardcore audio sites and it should have been obvious to Meridian that this would sell like hot 'cakes. With maple syrup. And a big dob of butter. Bought to your table by a waitress who looks like Seven of Nine - resistance really _is_ futile.
   
  Hmm - I have to go now. Sudden and inexplicable hunger pangs.


----------



## estreeter

Has anyone seen any credible *measurements* on the ME yet ? Read a claim elsewhere that the output impedance is 48 ohms - if accurate, it may explain why it hasnt been 'all that' to some folks out there.


----------



## Poimandres

That certainly may be an issue however I mainly used it to feed an amp so I never really experienced that.


----------



## FlySweep

My Explorer got delivered today.. liking it quite a bit so far.  I couldn't get it to work via OTG (USB Audio out) with my Galaxy S3 (Verizon, stock "TouchWiz" rom).  I'm currently listening with the Sony XBA-30 IEM (which has a ridiculously low 12 ohm impedance rating) and I don't sense any damping/impedance matching issues.  In fact, this phone's synergy with the ME seems quite good.  Clean, detailed, lively, organic.. with a hint of colorful contrast.


----------



## arnaud

Flysweep, at 50ohms output impedance, you're no longer listening to the xba-30 but more like xba-1... Mind you, this may be just what the xba-3 needs to tame down the highs a bit (would have to compare the response curves through say an iphone and the explorer to tell the impact, it is dependent on the passive filter before the ba drivers. Variations exceeding 4-5dB across the range, like purrin showed for another headphone, are to be expected though...
   
  Arnaud


----------



## Maxx134

I feel that any so called "dirty" usb power would be negligible at best on any modern computer.

And also "dirty power" would be an anologue domain anyway when we are talking digital. ..
 A super high quality DAC with on board clock control so there can be no affect to the digital domain from any dirty power,
 not to mention the voltage tolerances that is inherent to these chips they can handle,
 as well as the superior design of the company making it..
So I seriously doubt the majority of owners will ever be able to distinguish any benefit of using any power cleaner .
I would say rare cases of old hardware and a simple upgrade of the power supply would remedy it.
Just look at any laptop power supply just how large it is and if it were not enough then the laptop would surely not be able to last.
Power cleaners to me are an unnecessary fad.
When all they need is a good power supply from the beginning.


----------



## Armaegis

Dirty usb power is indeed an issue, although more often than not if you're on a laptop this can be ameliorated by unplugging the computer.
   
  In the case where you're stuck with it and your usb power is bad... then there's really no point to using a usb device. If you're still trying to keep it portable, then either get a laptop with better power or get a usb/spdif bridge and plug into a battery powered dac. It's not a perfect solution, but better than hauling around an extra power brick/device.


----------



## telecaster

About the output impedance, seeing the rest of his review I wouldnt trust him about his measurements! He completly bashed the product and some days later said that it could be possible he got a defective unit.
  I guess we are all deaf and this genius is the king of the reviewers...


----------



## FlySweep

> Originally Posted by *arnaud* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Flysweep, at 50ohms output impedance, you're no longer listening to the xba-30 but more like xba-1... Mind you, this may be just what the xba-3 needs to tame down the highs a bit (would have to compare the response curves through say an iphone and the explorer to tell the impact, it is dependent on the passive filter before the ba drivers. Variations exceeding 4-5dB across the range, like purrin showed for another headphone, are to be expected though...
> 
> Arnaud


 
   
  Good points all around.  I've spent about two weeks with the XBA-30 (used daily) so I'm pretty well attuned to the fq signature & sound.  The XBA-30's bass & treble.. the latter which is already quite smooth.. didn't sound particularly more dull via the ME.  That kind of thing would've jumped out to me pretty quickly as I like me my trebles.  I'll compare with the UHA & iPhone 4 to see if I hear any difference.  Obviously my comparison will be purely subjective (and fairly rudimentary), but I suppose I should hear a fairly distinguishable change in sound from when driven from two amps with significantly different OI.
   
  Do we have any official confirmation on the ME's output impedance?  I saw the "50 ohm" figure floating around.. but wasn't sure if it was confirmed.


----------



## Dyaems

Quote: 





telecaster said:


> About the output impedance, seeing the rest of his review I wouldnt trust him about his measurements! He completly bashed the product and some days later said that it could be possible he got a defective unit.
> I guess we are all deaf and this genius is the king of the reviewers...


 

 what are you smoking bro, the output Z was also confirmed by Tyll using a different unit =)
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/652910/meridian-explorer-dac-amp-stream-of-consciousness-review-warning-not-good/45#post_9209492


----------



## estreeter

Thanks, dyaems - that's what I was looking for. MoonUnit's summary below Tyll's measurements sums up the downside of those figures (bolding is mine): 
   
_It means that the amp essentially applies a headphone-dependent tone control (equalization curve) to the sound you hear. In many cases, this will mean the sound is more "midrangey" and with rolled off highs than an amp that is accurate. The effect will be more pronounced on low and medium impedance headphones, and *most pronounced on low impedance IEMs with multiple drivers and crossover networks*. Also, it means that the bass will be poorly damped (wooly instead of tight). Some people perceive this as a more "bodacious" bass that they find pleasing, but it is not particularly accurate._
   
  Voldemort and others leapt on the Fiio E9 for this exact 'crime', and it has been a noose around the E9's neck ever since. Fiio's budget blaster measured well on almost everything else on V's list. but high output impedance was thrown up as a roadblock to every potential purchaser on HF from that point forward. It will be interesting to see how the ME fares, particularly given that it would seem even more suited to IEM use than the brick-like E9.


----------



## DanBa

Quote: 





flysweep said:


> My Explorer got delivered today.. liking it quite a bit so far.  I couldn't get it to work via OTG (USB Audio out) with my Galaxy S3 (Verizon, stock "TouchWiz" rom).


 
   
  [size=11.818181991577148px]How about using the USB Audio Recorder PRO app available on the Google Play store ? [/size]
  https://play.google.com/store/search?q=+USB+Audio+Recorder+PRO[size=11.818181991577148px][/size]
 [size=11.818181991577148px]This app doesn't use the Samsung-implemented USB audio driver. It includes its own USB audio function, more tolerant.[/size]


----------



## azureaura

would this program enable most portable dac to work with android phones? is the HRT micro streamer simply plug and play, and can be powered from the Samsung gs3?


----------



## arnaud

Quote: 





flysweep said:


> Good points all around.  I've spent about two weeks with the XBA-30 (used daily) so I'm pretty well attuned to the fq signature & sound.  The XBA-30's bass & treble.. the latter which is already quite smooth.. didn't sound particularly more dull via the ME.  That kind of thing would've jumped out to me pretty quickly as I like me my trebles.  I'll compare with the UHA & iPhone 4 to see if I hear any difference.  Obviously my comparison will be purely subjective (and fairly rudimentary), but I suppose I should hear a fairly distinguishable change in sound from when driven from two amps with significantly different OI.
> 
> Do we have any official confirmation on the ME's output impedance?  I saw the "50 ohm" figure floating around.. but wasn't sure if it was confirmed.


 
   
  In my case, it wasn't so much the highs but the bass that caused me the most headache pairing my xba-3 to an amp. It started with my tomahawk, an amp supposidly dedicated for iems, that did (much) worse than my iPhone in terms of bass control. I tried multiple portable amps at a local meet and, as a I recall, only the O2 did make the phone sound better than unamped (and another one from germany that shigzeo brought but I don't recall the name, was too expensive anyway).
   
  Anyhow, I came away being  a happy camper with just my iPhone 4 and it's 1 Ohm zout to drive my xba-3s... I'd be surprising the explorer doesn't significantly affect your xba-30 response...


----------



## DanBa

Quote: 





azureaura said:


> would this program enable most portable dac to work with android phones?


 
   
  The USB Audio Recorder PRO allows any Android device with a functional USB host feature to interwork with a USB DAC.
   
  Its USB audio is more tolerant than the one implemented by Samsung.
  It can play music files up to 24/192.
   
  And the developer of USB Audio Recorder PRO can be contacted in case of problem.
   
  On the bad side, the USB Audio Recorder PRO player is too simple.
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/1635#post_9133811
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/1305#post_9034501
   


azureaura said:


> is the HRT micro streamer simply plug and play, and can be powered from the Samsung gs3?


   
Yes, it can without using USB Audio Recorder PRO!
   http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/1710#post_9161612
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/1635#post_9132299


----------



## plakat

Purrins review is a bit melodramatic for sure, but since his measurements are confirmed by Tyll, whom I trust in that regard, I guess we'll have to face the fact that the headphone out is not an optimal match for low-impedance headphones... I'm quite content with the Explorer feeding a Lake People amp and have no problems with its own headphone out when using it in the office.
   
  Nevertheless I'd like to understand that design decision as I don't think Meridian did that by accident. As Tyll mentioned they might want to limit current output due to USB power limitations.


----------



## bobeau

This is pretty interesting.
   
  I accused the DF of having high output impedance (nothing as high as this, but suspected ~10ohms) because of how I perceived that to be overly warm... mostly due to the nature of the bass.  Granted I don't know if I'd heard what high output impedance sounded like, it was just my assessment born from using a variety of < 50 ohm headphones and IEMS (all dynamic down to 16 ohms) on it vs. an ODAC/O2 combo, an E17, and my MBA headphone out, all noted to have < 2 ohm output.  They all just sounded more like each other than they sounded like the DF.  Gordon Rankin finally stepped in after I reported the results a head-fi member made on CA and corrected the method and claimed a sub 1 ohm on it.  Then I chalked it up to improper burn-in, or perhaps a smoother sound due to the async implementation.  It's all there in the DF thread,  plenty of people were clamoring for measurements but I believe I was the first who thought he 'heard it'.  Some people thought I was a bit crazy or my hearing is off, which I guess perhaps it is.
   
  With the ME, I just didn't detect it and didn't even suspect it.  Again this came from bouncing it against the headphone out in my MBA (which Voldemort measured and claim it was perhaps the best headphone out on a laptop he'd seen) the DF using a 16 ohm dynamic IEM.  In this case I felt the frequency response has more in common with the MBA than the DF, that it's certainly leaner.  
   
  Yesterday I took delivery of a FitEar TG!334 and only tried it on the ME and MBA headphone out, my first multi-crossover BA IEM.  To me they sounded quite similar in frequency response.  I have yet to try the DF as I let a friend borrow it but I'll try to get it back today and see how it fares with the 334.  Nothing really to add here besides this - I came into purchasing both the DF and ME with relatively high expectations based on reviews I'd read beforehand, and certainly had the expectation the ME was leaner based on those reviews.  I do realize there were some comments here that claimed otherwise but that's not the way I hear it, then again I may have really succumed to expectation bias here in a pretty grand way.  And I esp. thought Purrin wrote a satire piece.
   
  The weirdest thing is Meridian publishes that 16 ohm spec for max output.  It's almost perverse they would do that, as clearly this is not designed to drive something like that.


----------



## azureaura

I assume we would need a USB OTG cable to use the microstreamer is this correct?


----------



## Aerocraft67

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> The weirdest thing is Meridian publishes that 16 ohm spec for max output.  It's almost perverse they would do that, as clearly this is not designed to drive something like that.


 
   
  Good point in a great post. Funny, I found the Dragonfly to be lean and Explorer to be rich (but not too rich) with the HD-650, opposite of your IEM experience.


----------



## DanBa

Quote: 





azureaura said:


> I assume we would need a USB OTG cable to use the microstreamer is this correct?


 
   
  Yes, because the Galaxy S3 is a USB On-The-Go (OTG) device.
  It acts as 
  . a USB peripheral when using a regular USB cable 
  . a USB host when using a USB OTG cable.
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/840#post_8872299
   
  The Galaxy S3 should behave as a USB host when interworking with a HRT microStreamer always behaving as a USB peripheral.


----------



## ultrafi

I've had a Meridian Explorer here in the Ultra Fi Studio for over a week now, well broken-in, and thought I'd share some of my finding in hopes that they might help some fellow listers.  A few quick minutes here over my last cup o' joe this morning before I get to work on other things.
   
  First off, there is some break-in.  The caps in the Meridian just seems to require it.  If you've ever heard this in the past - that's exactly what it is.  After a couple days, things just start to settle down.  No biggie, it's to be expected.
   
  Second, the Meridian Explorer sounds...ridiculously good...well beyond its price point!  Meridian hit a line-drive homer straight to center field here in my opinion.  When one considers what it likely costs to build and package this thing and the $299 price, there's only really one explanation - Meridian is trying to broaden their appeal and expand the awareness of their company...become more of a household name... 'cuz they sure ain't making a killing on selling an Explorer at the asking price.
   
  Third, packaging: first rate.  Expensive!  Classy!  Not that this impacts the sound mind you; but, it sure lends to the experience.  Bravo!
   
  Fourth, the mini B input...poor choice, IMO.  I would have liked to see a standard sized type B connector.  I use a Belkin standard size B to mini B adapter, so that I may use one of my USB cables.  Yea, I know portability headphones and all; but, I simply choose to use the Meridian another way as well - a home install, in this case.  I know I will lack creditability as I use one of my cables and a couple of my filters; but, ignore that for a minute and consider this: I've found the Explorer to benefit from a USB cable and to be somewhat more revealing of differences in USB cables.
   
  Fifth, coupled to four, the USB cable that comes with the Meridian is in my Studio a sonic travesty...  If you think you're getting everything from this little baby with the USB cable that came with it, you're only fooling yourself.  Sorry, seems kinda cold; but, that's what I find.  And, what everyone who's heard it here and who I've talked to with one also hears and has found...
   
  Sixth, I would have liked to seen a pair of RCAs....
   
  To me, the size and cost increase in the Explorer to include a standard size type B and a pair of RCAs would have been small compared to the broadening of the appeal.  My opinion - you need not agree.
   
  All in all, the Explorer sets a new sonic standard for what it is and easily plays in the big leagues when it is cabled for doing so.
   
  Now, I'm exploring (sorry) using various means of powering it rather than using buss power.  More to come.


----------



## meat01

I don't understand how people can hear differences in dirty USB power, capacitors breaking in, USB cables, yet they need a measurement for the output impedance to know if it sounds good.  If a high output impedance means a more pronounced midrange, rolled off highs and bloaty bass, aren't people hearing this and describing it in their reviews?  Instead we have people praising this thing like it is the holy grail and anything with the name Meridian is golden.


----------



## ultrafi

Just for the record - I didn't say squat about the output Z.
   
  Frankly, I don't understand how you cannot hear differences???  To me, it just calls into question your setup - but, I know people don't like to look in the mirror...it is only human nature.
   
  Not trying to fight here....


----------



## Aerocraft67

Quote: 





ultrafi said:


> I know people don't like to look in the mirror...it is only human nature.
> 
> Not trying to fight here....


 
   
  Make no mistake, them's fightin' words alright. Passive-aggressive ones, but still. And so far you've been outclassed by keen wit.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





aerocraft67 said:


> Good point in a great post. Funny, I found the Dragonfly to be lean and Explorer to be rich (but not too rich) with the HD-650, opposite of your IEM experience.


 
   
  I could see that.  Oddly enough, I actually found the DF to be warmer for lower impedance IEMs - I ran my 50 ohm GR07s out of it and didn't find quite the differences between that and say the ODAC/O2 as I did with a couple others I recall were 16 and 20 ohms range... with those, I did in fact like the DF more, but it might be because it pulled in the sibilant tendencies more.  Again though, confirmation bias is a funny thing.  By that point I might have already decided the DF had high impedance, and even learning that was not the case after the fact, I still couldn't wrap my head around the differences I perceived.
   
  Right now I'm listening to the 334/000 w/ the ME back to back against my MBA headphone out.  The improvements from the ME to my ears are not subtle... far more clarity in the midrange, tighter/impactful bass, and more extension up top.  It just sounds awesome, and I'm not just saying that to save face - this is bar none the best portable setup I've had by a long shot.  I have tons of respect for Purrin and measurements don't lie... that said, I feel like I've just entered the audiophile twilight zone.  I'm eager to get my DF back today to compare.


----------



## azureaura

just got off the phone to audiofreaks. the man was very critical of using a HRT microstream with portable devices, even flat out saying it can't be done, and not to listen to audiophiles. Very strange. So Can it be done? i might opt for this, if the headstreamer is considerably worse in SQ.


----------



## Painterspal

meat01 said:


> I don't understand how people can hear differences in dirty USB power, capacitors breaking in, USB cables, yet they need a measurement for the output impedance to know if it sounds good.  If a high output impedance means a more pronounced midrange, rolled off highs and bloaty bass, aren't people hearing this and describing it in their reviews?  Instead we have people praising this thing like it is the holy grail and anything with the name Meridian is golden.




Just for the record, my comments only refer to its performance as a DAC as I made clear in my post at the time. The impedance issue only applies to the Explorer's headphone outlet. It's still a great sounding DAC in my view.


----------



## Tyll Hertsens

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> The weirdest thing is Meridian publishes that 16 ohm spec for max output.  It's almost perverse they would do that, as clearly this is not designed to drive something like that.


 
   
  That spec is a measure of output power into a 16 Ohm load, not a spec of the output impedance.


----------



## Radio_head

Quote: 





meat01 said:


> I don't understand how people can hear differences in dirty USB power, capacitors breaking in, USB cables, yet they need a measurement for the output impedance to know if it sounds good.  If a high output impedance means a more pronounced midrange, rolled off highs and bloaty bass, aren't people hearing this and describing it in their reviews?  Instead we have people praising this thing like it is the holy grail and anything with the name Meridian is golden.


 
  You are touching on something here that people avoid saying as it involves being "personal."  There's an elephant in the room, and its doing something distasteful.
   
  At least 4 or 5 people heard what you are describing before any measurements were posted, which is why measurements were even taken in the first place.  It is unrealistic to find critical reviews for a product that is only a couple weeks old on this type of thread.  It will consist mostly of pats on the back all around, people trying to justify their purchase, and excitement over the newest/shiniest/audiophile brand approved product.
   
  Something is also to be said for the notion that some may like the sound of this unit.  I've heard of crazier things happening.  Some headphones may not be as adversely affected by high output impedance as others as well.  Some may only be using the line out, which does not yet have any measurements demonstrating its level of  ineptitude.  These are all plausible and also all ways of tiptoeing around a delicate subject.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





tyll hertsens said:


> That spec is a measure of output power into a 16 Ohm load, not a spec of the output impedance.


 
   
  I'm aware of that - my point is is while technically speaking that may be where its max output is, if the unit works sub-optimally with a 16 ohm load then it's a rather odd thing to see.


----------



## purrin

Quote: 





telecaster said:


> About the output impedance, seeing the rest of his review I wouldnt trust him about his measurements! He completly bashed the product and some days later said that it could be possible he got a defective unit.
> I guess we are all deaf and this genius is the king of the reviewers...


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





purrin said:


>


 
   
  Oh man oh man... as the owner of two pug dogs you had to use *that*.  Twisting it in deeper.


----------



## LFF

Quote: 





purrin said:


>


 
   

*ROFLOL!*
   
  Had coffee gush out my nose!


----------



## Radio_head

Quote: 





purrin said:


>


 
  Sir, it is fairly obvious from the asinine tact you have taken to this dialogue that nothing you have to say should be taken as having any gravity, as levity and gravity are clearly at odds.  Please refrain from these childish churlish remarks as its obvious you have nothing to add.
   
  Thanks,
  Joh


----------



## Aerocraft67

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> I'm aware of that - my point is is while technically speaking that may be where its max output is, if the unit works sub-optimally with a 16 ohm load then it's a rather odd thing to see.


 
   
  My understanding is that you spec output power into a low impedance load as a conservative proxy for how output power will scale to higher impedance loads, but specifying at 16 ohms does carry a connotation that it performs well with 16-ohm loads, but the otherwise unspecified unusually high output impedance of Explorer suggests quite the contrary. Paraphrasing some earlier commentary, it's one thing to make a tube amp with 25-ohm output impedance targeting higher-impedance headphones, it's another to make one with 47-ohm output impedance with no indication that it might suck with low impedance phones, made worse by offering an output power spec into 16 ohms. At least that's what I took away from bobeau pointing it out.


----------



## azureaura

Getting back on subject with the thread. Has anyone tested a meridian explorer on android devices running USB audio recorder? Is there a certain sequence of when you start the program, and plug the usb OTG in?


----------



## meat01

Quote: 





radio_head said:


> Sir, it is fairly obvious from the asinine tact you have taken to this dialogue that nothing you have to say should be taken as having any gravity, as levity and gravity are clearly at odds.  Please refrain from these childish churlish remarks as its obvious you have nothing to add.
> 
> Thanks,
> Joh


 

 Purrin posted an honest review of the unit, the way he heard it, posted measurements and then was bashed, because his opinion did not match everyone else's and now he has nothing to add?  He has contributed more than the people who have bashed him and I feel his asinine tact was justified.


----------



## purrin

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> I could see that.  Oddly enough, I actually found the DF to be warmer for lower impedance IEMs - I ran my 50 ohm GR07s out of it and didn't find quite the differences between that and say the ODAC/O2 as I did with a couple others I recall were 16 and 20 ohms range... with those, I did in fact like the DF more, but it might be because it pulled in the sibilant tendencies more.  Again though, confirmation bias is a funny thing.  By that point I might have already decided the DF had high impedance, and even learning that was not the case after the fact, I still couldn't wrap my head around the differences I perceived.
> 
> Right now I'm listening to the 334/000 w/ the ME back to back against my MBA headphone out.  The improvements from the ME to my ears are not subtle... far more clarity in the midrange, tighter/impactful bass, and more extension up top.  It just sounds awesome, and I'm not just saying that to save face - this is bar none the best portable setup I've had by a long shot.  I have tons of respect for Purrin and measurements don't lie... that said, I feel like I've just entered the audiophile twilight zone.  I'm eager to get my DF back today to compare.


 
   
  Results will vary depending upon the impedance _plot vs. frequency_ of the IEMs used. Because the UERMs were rolled off with the ME does not mean other IEMs (with their own specific impedance curves) will react similarly with the ME.
   
  P.S. On the "defective unit" thing: That's always been an inside joke between my HF friends and I. The joke is if I don't like something because I hear certain characteristics which are later corroborated by measurements, then the unit I received must have been "defective."


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





purrin said:


> Results will vary depending upon the impedance _plot vs. frequency_ of the IEMs used. Because the UERMs were measurably rolled off with the ME does not mean other IEMs (with their own specific impedance curves) will react similarly with the ME.
> 
> P.S. On the "defective unit" thing: That's always been an inside joke between my HF friends and I. The joke is if I don't like something because I hear certain characteristics which are later corroborated by measurements, then the unit I received must have been "defective."


 
   
  I get that BA earphones in general can have pretty widely swinging impedance plots (why they're more susceptible to this than dynamics right?)
   
  Question: how does having a super high sensitivity factor into this?  My 334s aren't particularly low impedance (I think 40 ohms-ish at 1k?) but very high sensitivity.  They take barely any volume to drive with my ME.
   
  FWIW, I got my Dragonfly back and am hearing the same general differences I heard w/ other phones... with the ME I get tighter/impactful bass, perhaps slightly less in quantity, and more extension to the highs.  If anything the mids seem to take a step back but with greater clarity, moving toward the treble riding sibilance edge at times.  At least that's how I hear it.


----------



## Aerocraft67

Quote: 





meat01 said:


> Purrin posted an honest review of the unit, the way he heard it, posted measurements and then was bashed, because his opinion did not match everyone else's and now he has nothing to add?  He has contributed more than the people who have bashed him and I feel his asinine tact was justified.


 
   
  Inside jokery, bro, they're on the same team. Although I will add that the puppy picture was ironically a rather dignified response to the provoking posts, which were so offensively petulant as to otherwise justify unleashing unmitigated rhetorical fury. I daresay Purrin is too kind. Also ironically, fanboy posts of that ilk actually make it more difficult to keep Explorer's merits in perspective _vis-à-vis_ its shortcomings.


----------



## purrin

bobeau said:


> I get that BA earphones in general can have pretty widely swinging impedance plots (why they're more susceptible to this than dynamics right?)


 

   
  It's hard to say. Some brands of multi-driver IEMs with crossovers have very well behaved impedance response. Others no so much. I haven't plotted the impedance curve for the UERMs which I used, but I'm betting its pretty screwy based on the FR measurement with the ME. (One can pretty much guesstimate or calculate the UERM impedance curve now that that output Z of it is known. Math is fun.)
   


bobeau said:


> Question: how does having a super high sensitivity factor into this?  My 334s aren't particularly low impedance (I think 40 ohms-ish at 1k?) but very high sensitivity.  They take barely any volume to drive with my ME.


 
   
  Transducers with high sensitivity and higher impedance is always good from an amp's point of view, especially one sucking power from USB jack. It would be interesting to see power vs. distortion measurements into various loads (20ohms, 50ohms, 300ohms) of the ME. Tyll, you want to take a shot at this?


----------



## teofilrocks

Wow, it got all serious up in here.
   
  Mine will arrive next week. If I enjoy it, I'll call that a win. If I don't, I'll send it back or sell it. Easy.


----------



## netdog

I'm really curious now about this headphone thing and will have to give it a try.
   
  Sadly I am not into headphones, and hence only have a pair of P5s for when out and about with my phone.  When I combine the high end roll-off on these with that allegedly coming from the Explorer, it just might sound like listening to music underwater.
   
  On the dedicated DAC side, I do have to say that I am still very impressed.


----------



## telecaster

Telecaster out


----------



## vrln

What bothers me is how Meridian didn´t disclose the facts even though it´s obviously a topic many were interested in. Not even replying to emails... Sad to see my fears were entirely justified. The Astell & Kern DAP was caught with the same problem a while ago (and it´s less than 20 ohm!) and the designers were forced to admit on the 6Moons review that it isn´t optimal for IEM use. Time for Meridian to admit the same I think, or at least I´d like to know the design rationale behind going for a high ohm output. Makes absolutely no sense to me. Most closed headphones and IEMs are low ohm, the only ones that usually aren´t are open ones and most of those aren´t suitable for portable use anyway due to noise leaking etc. Might be good as a DAC, sure, but for me the entire point of the product was to use it as an all in one unit.
   
  +1 for distrusting mainstream audio magazines too. I´ve valued in depth impression comments from critical members on sites like this way ahead of professional reviews for a long time already.


----------



## Tyll Hertsens

Quote: 





purrin said:


> Transducers with high sensitivity and higher impedance is always good from an amp's point of view, especially one sucking power from USB jack. It would be interesting to see power vs. distortion measurements into various loads (20ohms, 50ohms, 300ohms) of the ME. Tyll, you want to take a shot at this?


 
   
  Regardless of the efficiency, the damping factor will remain the same, which is to say poor. The headphones will not be as tight, clear, and impactive if the output impedance is high.


----------



## Aerocraft67

Quote: 





teofilrocks said:


> Wow, it got all serious up in here.


 
   
  And all that over a $300 device. Imagine if it were $3,000. Actually, I wonder whether the entry-level stuff actually garners the more dramatic scrutiny and allegiance.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





vrln said:


> What bothers me is how Meridian didn´t disclose the facts even though it´s obviously a topic many were interested in. Not even replying to emails... Sad to see my fears were entirely justified. The Astell & Kern DAP was caught with the same problem a while ago (and it´s less than 20 ohm!) and the designers were forced to admit on the 6Moons review that it isn´t optimal for IEM use. Time for Meridian to admit the same I think, or at least I´d like to know the design rationale behind going for a high ohm output. Makes absolutely no sense to me. Most closed headphones and IEMs are low ohm, the only ones that usually aren´t are open ones and most of those aren´t suitable for portable use anyway due to noise leaking etc. Might be good as a DAC, sure, but for me the entire point of the product was to use it as an all in one unit.
> 
> +1 for distrusting mainstream audio magazines too. I´ve valued in depth impression comments from critical members on sites like this way ahead of professional reviews for a long time already.


 
   
  On the 'distrusting magazines' part, I  think you will find that most of the old-timers here have an, ahem, _healthy_ skepticism of magazine reviews, but is that really fair when most of the reviews I've read have either been:
   
     -  the ME used _purely as a DAC_ in a speaker rig
     - Chris Connaker's impressions with 300-ohm HD600s
   
  If this had been a $300 gadget with a tube hidden discreetly in the casing, we would have thrown the measurements in the nearest dumpster and everyone would be raving about how 'analog' and 'musical' it was. How many people ran measurements on the GF TubeDAC ? I'd be interested to see how they line up with GF's claimed numbers. 
   
  Sadly, the high output impedance *is* a big deal for reviewers, because it means that your mileage will vary from mine depending on which headphones you choose to plug into the thing : we might as well have an epileptic with an equalizer between our source and headphones. OK, that's probably a little melodramatic, and epilepsy is no laughing matter. 
   
  Just out of wild curiosity, did anyone measure output impedance on the *DF* ?


----------



## Deni5

Hi, I got mine Meridian Explorer today. Maybe it's not my lucky day today because I have bad feelings about it.
   
  Tried the headphone out and it does sound a little off compared to my ODAC/O2. Balance is a little strange - I hear a lot of bass, which you would think is ok (though not as tight as I like it), but it is almost overkill on very bassy headphones. The bass overpowers everything imo. Mids seems more forward. There is treble but it is very slightly withdrawn. Overall balance seems kind of off (at least compared to my ODAC/O2).
   
  Ok so I know of the somewhat high output impedance and wanted to try the line out feeding my O2 amp. This was the main reason I bought it. Now it seems more balanced but on occasion I hear distortion. I try to figure out why I hear this. Tried different USB cables from my Lenovo T61 but no change. Tried unplugging power cable to laptop (running on battery) but still something is a little off.
   
  So I thought maybe this is so superdetailed that Spotify Premium (320 kbit OGG) isn't good enough of a source. Tried different kind of FLAC:s 24bit/16bit 44.1/96/192kHz, but still I sense that something is a little off. This testing was made with my Hifiman RE-ZERO and Hifiman RE-400 IEM. So I switched to my Mad Dog. Seems like it got better as time went by, maybe it needs to heat up or something, but still I sense that the bass is really loud that it distorts on very bassy songs like Massive Attack - Protection.
   
  Maybe the O2 isn't a good match coupled with the ME? I don't know but I haven't had any problems previously with my Dacport LX, Dragonfly running of the same USB-port coupled with O2.
   
  Also I don't like the USB-input on the ME - why is it upside down (well at least comparing to my other portable DAC/AMPs)
   
  I hope that it gets better with time, burn in or something. Otherwise I like it - it is very detailed (but still prefer ODAC/O2 a little more imo)
  
  Update:
  I hoped the distortion would dissapear but it didn't. Somehow it is only present for me when I use line out on the ME. When using the headphone output I didn't hear the distortion at all. I can only hear distortion when playing music with lots of bass that's why I was only hearing it on some occansions earlier. I have followed installation procedure for a PC (ME website). I use Windows 7 x64. Checked the installation folder (Program Files\Meridian Audio Ltd\USB2_audio_driver_v2-1) and I can see several filenames containing 'x64' so it should be the correct drivers that has been installed.
   
  Update2:
  I don't have many external amps at hand. Tried my old Fiio E11 and somehow there was no distortion so I guess line out on the ME must be functioning ok after all. Maybe there is something faulty with my input on my O2 amp? Tried coupling it with my Dragonfly and heard no distortion at all, working ok. So I have some issue with the ME line out connected to O2 amp input. Can't figure out what the problem is. Tried different USB-ports no change. I use EHP-O2D, will be getting a standalone O2 amp (EHP-O2) soon. Hope there is some difference.
   
  Note. Something I noticed that you should be aware of when switching between headphone output and line out. They both should output at the same volume level all the time so if I use line out I have to set it to 100% volume, but when switching to headphone output it is still at 100%. If not turned down before using headphones well you can probably figure out what will happen.
  EHP-O2D


----------



## kingoftown1

Quote: 





deni5 said:


> -


 
  I (and probably quite a few others) would absolutely love to read your impressions/comparison between those 4 dacs


----------



## Aerocraft67

Quote: 





deni5 said:


> Also I don't like the USB-input on the ME - why is it upside down (well at least comparing to my other portable DAC/AMPs)


 
   
  This bothers me, too. You have to twist the cable to get it to face up, but the cable is so short it wants to torque it back, and the device is so light that it rolls with the torque on the cable. Such a simple thing, but annoying, and casts another shred of doubt on the thoughtfulness of the implementation. Of course a longer cable will solve the problem, which I'll have to get anyway, because I use a riser for my laptop.


----------



## purrin

Quote: 





deni5 said:


> Hi, I got mine Meridian Explorer today. Maybe it's not my lucky day today because I have bad feelings about it.
> 
> Tried the headphone out and it does sound a little off compared to my ODAC/O2. Balance is a little strange - I hear a lot of bass, which you would think is ok (though not as tight as I like it), but it is almost overkill on very bassy headphones. The bass overpowers everything imo. Mids seems more forward. There is treble but it is very slightly withdrawn. Overall balance seems kind of off (at least compared to my ODAC/O2).
> 
> Ok so I know of the somewhat high output impedance and wanted to try the line out feeding my O2 amp. This was the main reason I bought it. Now it seems more balanced but on occasion I hear distortion. I try to figure out why I hear this. Tried different USB cables from my Lenovo T61 but no change. Tried unplugging power cable to laptop (running on battery) but still something is a little off.


 
   
  Can you try the headphone out and turn down the output from the ME? The O2 amp does not like a hot signal to the input (because of where the volume pot is placed in the circuit, the O2 voltage gain op-amp will clip). The LO from the ME could be a little too hot. I am not sure though. I can measure it of course to find out.


----------



## Deni5

Quote: 





purrin said:


> Can you try the headphone out and turn down the output from the ME? The O2 amp does not like a hot signal to the input (because of where the volume pot is placed in the circuit, the O2 voltage gain op-amp will clip). The LO from the ME could be a little too hot. I am not sure though. I can measure it of course to find out.


 
   


 No distortion at all with headphone out connected to the input of O2 amp. I tried line out again and thought it might change if I turn the volume down but it didn't change anything. Set it to 0% on Windows volume control and it was still playing as loud so it is a fixed value then (although it isn't grayed out). If I use the headphone out instead with the amp won't I get the coloration issues? I haven't run into this problem before at all. Didn't know about the "hot signal" issue. Thanks for helping out purrin.


----------



## teofilrocks

Quote: 





purrin said:


> The O2 amp does not like a hot signal to the input (because of where the volume pot is placed in the circuit, the O2 voltage gain op-amp will clip).


 
   
  What's a good input volume level for the O2?


----------



## purrin

You should be safe on low gain with wall wart and 2.0Vrms output from the DAC. Around 2.5Vrms, and you start to be pushing it. This is based on calculations and theory. Murphy's law applies in real world scenarios. I've heard from others the O2 clipping earlier - at less output voltages.


----------



## purrin

Quote: 





deni5 said:


> If I use the headphone out instead with the amp won't I get the coloration issues? I haven't run into this problem before at all. Didn't know about the "hot signal" issue. Thanks for helping out purrin.


 
   
  Nope. The output impedance for the head-out is relatively high only for certain headphones or IEMs, but low for line-level signals. As long as the _input _impedance of the device being driven is multiples higher than the 47ohm _output _impedance of the ME, then it should not be a problem. The input Z of the O2 amp is probably over a hundred-thousand ohms. It's not uncommon for DACs/pre-amps to have output impedance in the hundreds of ohms (no K).


----------



## Deni5

Quote: 





purrin said:


> Nope. The output impedance for the head-out is relatively high only for certain headphones or IEMs, but low for line-level signals. As long as the _input _impedance of the device being driven is multiples higher than the 47ohm _output _impedance of the ME, then it should not be a problem. The input Z of the O2 amp is probably over a hundred-thousand ohms. It's not uncommon for DACs/pre-amps to have output impedance in the hundreds of ohms (no K).


 

 Ok, so using the headphone output at 100% volume would be as good as using the line out - no degradation, correct? Thanks


----------



## purrin

Yes, in theory.


----------



## Clemmaster

Quote: 





purrin said:


> Can you try the headphone out and turn down the output from the ME? The O2 amp does not like a hot signal to the input (because of where the volume pot is placed in the circuit, the O2 voltage gain op-amp will clip). The LO from the ME could be a little too hot. I am not sure though. I can measure it of course to find out.


 
   
  I read somewhere it was above 2.0Vrms (IIRC, it was more like 2.25Vrms).


----------



## Tyll Hertsens

Quote: 





deni5 said:


> Ok, so using the headphone output at 100% volume would be as good as using the line out - no degradation, correct? Thanks


 
   
  Well, under normal circumstances, the headphone jack output would have additional circuitry for power amplification and volume control, and therefor might not sound as clean....or maybe better put, the extra circuitry gives more opportunity for degradation of the signal.


----------



## Tyll Hertsens

Also, you can plug these into the input to your amp to reduce the voltage of the line out.
   
  http://www.amazon.com/Harrison-Labs-Line-Level-Attenuator/dp/B0006N41AG/ref=pd_sim_e_1


----------



## Deni5

Quote: 





tyll hertsens said:


> Also, you can plug these into the input to your amp to reduce the voltage of the line out.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Harrison-Labs-Line-Level-Attenuator/dp/B0006N41AG/ref=pd_sim_e_1


 
  Hi Tyll, thanks for your reply. The input on the O2 is single 3.5mm but I should be able to find something equally good that works.


----------



## Deni5

Quote: 





kingoftown1 said:


> I (and probably quite a few others) would absolutely love to read your impressions/comparison between those 4 dacs


 

 Hi, I find it difficult to compare those but here is my impressions. To me all of them sounds good but in different ways. First I should say that I prefer almost cold (dry?)/neutral/very detailed/analyzing sound. I like the very slight warmness I get from my HD-600 when driven from my ODAC/O2, that's about it. Then again I can also like my warmer Mad Dog equally well. I also want a transparent/not to coloring sound that works well with many of my different headphones and IEM's - I listen to different ones in my collection almost every day, not attached to one that I listen to all the time.
   
  So based on above information
  1) ODAC/O2 - My main setup and preferred one. Some find it cold/sterile/overly detailed/aggressive/digital, but I happen to like this signature so it works best for me.
  2) Dacport LX - I like it very much actually, but I sense I very slight softness to it, some may say better refined, but I like slightly more aggressiveness/detail.
  3) Audioquest Dragonfly - Reminds me off my of ODAC/O2 in detail (both use ESS Sabre) but still I sense some softness to it, can't describe it but it reminds me a little of Dacport LX. I still like Dacport LX a little more, but not by much.
   
  Then there is the Meridian Explorer. I haven't been listening to it that much as I have had a little trouble coupling it with my O2, but when using headphone out (100%) to the input of the O2 amp I got the following impression:
  It sounded almost very different from the above. Very agressive in all regards. I haven't heard that much bass before. To some degree I find it is to much according to the balance that I'm used to (aggressive but not overly so). So in some regards if I had a better amp at hand it could have maybe easily won me over - it is something different that I'm not used to at the moment. It sounded a little like all parts of the sound - bass, mids, treble were boosted but equally well (very good blending) so no part of it stood out (then again this depends on how balanced sound signature the headphone you are using has but that was what I sensed imo). I can't place it anywhere from 1-4 because I have too little experience of it. All I know is it is different. It seems playing in another league - as some would say.
   
  All I can say is that it is not a day and night change when comparing them to each other. All to me are good and well worth asking price. They all sound transparent and also I can't sense anything totally off balanced with any of them.
   
  This is of course based on my preference. Some doesn't like sharper treble and would prefer the Dacport LX or Dragonfly. I guess if you really like playing loud and aggressive Meridian Explorer would be perfect.


----------



## Aerocraft67

Quote: 





deni5 said:


> I find it difficult to compare those but here is my impressions.


 
   
  You make it look easy. Nice job. Thanks.


----------



## bobeau

Anyone try this with the C&C BH?  Or perhaps the c421?
   
  I'm now curious to pick up an amp due to the noted high output impedance to see if that is a nice sonic upgrade.  
   
  The biggest issue is I've gone back and forth with my DragonFly using my 334s and specs be damned, I much prefer the ME.  But I also feel like I'm leaving something big on the table.  Just want to know what experiences people are having with other portable amps, esp. in the face of the O2's issue with the hot input (I've had an O2 in the past and loved it, but it's just too big anyway).


----------



## yfei

I agree with what you are hearing with DF and ME.    my description here:
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/650680/news-meridian-releases-the-explorer-pocket-sized-usb-dac/300#post_9192942
I agree with you that ME is 'aggressive' compared to DF.    that was also my feeling when comparing Meridian 588 to Benchmark DAC1.   
And Meridian is doing it right.   Because truly reproducing what is printed on the cd CAN NOT reproduce the music.    I have attended an interesting experiment of A/B testing between live music vs. reproduction: 1) playing live music for 2 mins, 2) at the same time recording it to DSD, then 3) replaying it right after.   The recording and playback are using Sabre 32bit chips, great speakers (huge speakers, >>$10k), professional multi-mic setup.
The result is jaw dropping to me, the reproduction is so much inferior, lacking energy and impact.  Technically I don't know why, Sabre and mics are doing the job right, what are the missing links?
I think Meridian is trying to draw us back to the live music performance by adding the energy.     DF (ESS Sabre) is technically more advanced, ME is psychologically more advanced.
   
And it has a little bit British accent.
UK magazines like What's HiFi will definitely love ME.  Different magazines in different countries have different taste.
   
   
   
   
  Quote: 





deni5 said:


> Hi, I find it difficult to compare those but here is my impressions. To me all of them sounds good but in different ways. First I should say that I prefer almost cold (dry?)/neutral/very detailed/analyzing sound. I like the very slight warmness I get from my HD-600 when driven from my ODAC/O2, that's about it. Then again I can also like my warmer Mad Dog equally well. I also want a transparent/not to coloring sound that works well with many of my different headphones and IEM's - I listen to different ones in my collection almost every day, not attached to one that I listen to all the time.
> 
> So based on above information
> 1) ODAC/O2 - My main setup and preferred one. Some find it cold/sterile/overly detailed/aggressive/digital, but I happen to like this signature so it works best for me.
> ...


----------



## vikingboy

Im no electrical engineer so all the talk about high impedance values etc dont mean that much to me but what I hear with my Meridian Explorer (output impedance circa 47 Ohm) vs my Headamp Pico Amp/DAC (Output Impedance <1 Ohm) with my Shure E530 earphones (36 Ohm Impedance) is an more impactful and detailed bass exhibiting more texture for want of a better word, coupled with generally higher levels of detail and improved (though not to my mind exaggerated) soundstaging.
  Ive got a set of UM Miracle's inbound which are a 16 Ohm impedance IEM and look forward to trying them also.  
   
  I'm certainly not hearing any flabby, undefined or wallowy slow bass with me ME driven from my 13" retina MBP / Audivarna+ setup.


----------



## feverfive

<scratching my head>  My ME was delivered a couple days ago, but I got home a few hours ago from a trip.  Plugged into the left USB port of my rMBP, and I changed no Audio Midi settings...all three lights are showing lit on my ME even though the music files I'm playing right now are only 16/44k...  What?
  
  ETA:  Ohhh...it's iTunes.  When I enabled BitPerfect, output via the ME lights started working properly.


----------



## L0SLobos

Anyone with both Meridian Explorer and Benchmark DAC1 can compare? (I know, vast difference in price), but it'll be nice to know how the explorer compares to a world class DAC.


----------



## aras

Portable amp/dac like explorer with 50ohm output impedance is big time failure in my opinion. I dont see how this can sound ok with iems or with portable headphones.


----------



## Poimandres

I believe alot of people are utilizing the line out into an amp.


----------



## DoomForce

Some great info so far guys. Just finished reading the whole thing.
   
  Are there any news from the Android USB compatibility field?


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





poimandres said:


> I believe alot of people are utilizing the line out into an amp.


 
   
  There's quite a few people (including myself) who are commenting on the headphone out.  As I've mentioned earlier, despite this pretty big issue I still feel it blows away my DF using my FitEar 334s... I wish it weren't the case as I prefer that form factor (plus I could more easily recoup my cost with the ME being the new hotness).


----------



## DKCon

I've been listening to the Explorer for about a little over a week now with a pair of Senn Momentums and IE80s.  Really enjoying it.


----------



## feverfive

I unboxed my ME almost 24 hours ago, and I have to say, the first few songs I listened to, I wasn't impressed.  I am interested in the ME only for portable use when I travel w/ my laptop.  I really don't want anything else in the chain, so have zero care how it does as a DAC-only.  My set-up: rMBP (iTunes playing ALAC via BitPerfect)>ME> Earsonics SM64 via hp out.
   
  I listened to a few songs, thought the high & low ends were muddy/unclear  So I removed my IEMs from my ears, left it playing for a few hours & walked away to do other things.  When I put my IEMs back in, and I went back to the initial songs I was listening to, things were MUCH better.  No more congestion...  I know hp out has been confirmed to be high impedance, but I actually like how this very simple set-up sounds.  It's a clear upgrade over the rMBP hp out.  I'll be keeping mine even for the limited use I intend.


----------



## crooner

Just took the plunge and ordered a ME from Todd.
  Should get here mid week.
   
  I was wondering if the variable analog is indeed similar to the Dragonfly I already own. Both are 64 bit digitally controlled analog. I could use the fixed output into my Marantz 7 preamp, but I like to control volume remotely. I achieve this by connecting a griffin Powermate control (big knob) with an USB extension cable. This way, I have volume control at my listening chair. This is my main (non headphone rig).
   
  I read Meridian's literature and they suggest using the fixed output in a main stereo system for maximum performance. Does this mean the variable analog is inferior in resolution?
  
  EDIT: I have just contacted Meridian about this and hopefully they'll get back to me soon.


----------



## crooner

Sorry if I didn't go back the previous 30 pages looking for a link or recommendation, but I would like to replace the stock USB cable on the Explorer with something better that's not too expensive. Any ideas, links?
  Thanks!


----------



## fuzzyash

Quote: 





crooner said:


> Sorry if I didn't go back the previous 30 pages looking for a link or recommendation, but I would like to replace the stock USB cable on the Explorer with something better that's not too expensive. Any ideas, links?
> Thanks!


 
   
  furutech, audioquest, wireworld...etc


----------



## crooner

Thanks.
  The Tone Audio review talked about a $99 Wireworld cable. Will look into that and the others you mentioned.


----------



## takato14

Quote: 





swimsonny said:


> Hopefully it supports Android USB audio !


 
  Sadly, it can't. The device gets its power from the USB port, which is only 100mA with an OTG cable. This needs 500mA.
   
  If you have a full-sized port built into your device however, (some tablets, no phones that I know of) it's very likely that it'll work.


----------



## plakat

Quote: 





crooner said:


> I read Meridian's literature and they suggest using the fixed output in a main stereo system for maximum performance. Does this mean the variable analog is inferior in resolution?


 
   
  The difference is on the analog part only, the line-out avoids the additional signal attenuation circuitry which is simply unnecessary when feeding a system that has its own volume control.


----------



## wfranklin

Quote: 





crooner said:


> Sorry if I didn't go back the previous 30 pages looking for a link or recommendation, but I would like to replace the stock USB cable on the Explorer with something better that's not too expensive. Any ideas, links?
> Thanks!


 
  I've found the AudioQuest Evergreen and Everest pairing to be a good match; about $30 each (USB and 3.5 mini to RCA stereo pair).


----------



## jkbkot

Why exactly do you think that a USB cable can make a difference? It transfers digital data - no matter what cable, the same data is transferred between the computer and the Explorer.


----------



## Carlsan

Quote: 





jkbkot said:


> Why exactly do you think that a USB cable can make a difference? It transfers digital data - no matter what cable, the same data is transferred between the computer and the Explorer.


 
   
  Have to agree, can understand investing in analog cables including headphone cables, but USB, no.
  The digital signal will not improve with a better cable, either it will be transmit or it will not. It will contain the same amount of 0's and 1's at the beginning of the stream as at the end. That is the nature of digital.


----------



## DoomForce

There are posts earlier on the topic of USB cables; some people argue that it makes a tremendous difference regarding the phase sync between the device and the DAC. Still, 100 bucks for a cable might be stretching it a bit.. But that's head-fi 

If its true that you cannot use this device with a phone or a portable listening device other than a laptop, I am extremely dissapointed :/


----------



## yfei

Well, USB protocol is more like the 'internet' instead of simple continuous bit steaming like TOSLink.
  USB transmission is based on packets, like TCP of the internet,   a packet contains a header and data.   if a packet is lost / corrupted during transmission, then it will be re-transmitted.
   
  A poor cable may introduce higher rate of packet loss, and cause more delayed re-transmissions.     The receiver side have certain amount of memory buffer and cpu power to sort out-of-order packets to in-order and ensure there won't be any 'pause' in sound due to the re-transmission.
   
  But maybe these activities can cause fluctuations in usb chips' power consumption and radiation?      and also cause jitter in the output signals to the DAC ?
   
  But I agree that these only should be a concern for very long cables, or very poor cables.    Any >$10 short cables should be the same.
   
   
   
  Quote: 





carlsan said:


> Have to agree, can understand investing in analog cables including headphone cables, but USB, no.
> The digital signal will not improve with a better cable, either it will be transmit or it will not. It will contain the same amount of 0's and 1's at the beginning of the stream as at the end. That is the nature of digital.


----------



## takato14

Quote: 





jkbkot said:


> Why exactly do you think that a USB cable can make a difference? It transfers digital data - no matter what cable, the same data is transferred between the computer and the Explorer.


 
  Exactly. A fancy $500 USB cable isn't going to make your 1s and 0s more one-ey and zero-ey. Digital is digital. 
   
  Analog can have some extremely slight alterations based on continuity, but people are constantly making a mountain out of an anthill.  Continuity is a game of weakest link in the chain. Dynamics and orthodynamics use copper in the driver construction, making esoteric metals like rhodium and silver useless in almost every application. Unless you have an _exceptionally_ terrible cable on the headphone in its stock form there will almost certainly be no noticeable difference in sound. You're hearing your money. Any cable that's "cryo-treated" or "perfect-surface copper" or any of that other marketing ******** is an absolutely pointless waste of money.


----------



## Armaegis

Quote: 





plakat said:


> The difference is on the analog part only, the line-out avoids the additional signal attenuation circuitry which is simply unnecessary when feeding a system that has its own volume control.


 
   
  An exception being if the amp has an input limit and the source has a particularly high output level.


----------



## Clemmaster

Quote: 





yfei said:


> *Well, USB protocol is more like the 'internet' instead of simple continuous bit steaming like TOSLink.*
> USB transmission is based on packets, like TCP of the internet,   a packet contains a header and data.   if a packet is lost / corrupted during transmission, then it will be re-transmitted.
> 
> A poor cable may introduce higher rate of packet loss, and cause more delayed re-transmissions.     The receiver side have certain amount of memory buffer and cpu power to sort out-of-order packets to in-order and ensure there won't be any 'pause' in sound due to the re-transmission.
> ...


 
   
  Currently, for USB Audio (even class 2), it is not  It is a common misconception: USB Audio Class 1.0 & 2.0 deal with _isochronous_ endpoints, which *does not feature error correction*.
   
  The S/PDif features a low-level *protocol* that splits the audio into frames, sub-frames and time-slots.
   
  USB audio *does not *feature re-transmission or error correction. Only the bulk transfert mode allows for error correction (mass storage devices). The Musiland convertors (Monitor 01 & 02) are the only USB devices I know that don't relie on the isochronous transfert mode (as found in all synchronous, adaptive & asynchronous converters). They rely on the bulk transfert mode and require specific drivers (not USB Class complient).


----------



## netdog

Can anyone answer this question about USB error correction authoritatively?  We're just getting different people saying different things.  I'd love to see a reliable reference.


----------



## citraian

Quote: 





netdog said:


> Can anyone answer this question about USB error correction authoritatively?  We're just getting different people saying different things.  I'd love to see a reliable reference.


 
  You will not be able to find a reliable reference about audio and video cables anywhere. Everybody has a different opinion. I am more than happy with my Wireworld Ultaviolet and with the differences it brings


----------



## meat01

Quote: 





netdog said:


> Can anyone answer this question about USB error correction authoritatively?  We're just getting different people saying different things.  I'd love to see a reliable reference.


 
   
  Cables are like a holy war.  Most people do agree agree with the fact that the changes cables make (if they exist) make a small amount of difference compared to other things. If you don't believe this, you can try them out and see what you think.
   
  How about we get back on topic of the Meridian Explorer


----------



## netdog

Okay, I'll get back to the Explorer.
   
  As a dedicated DAC, I am still finding it lovely.  Downloaded some 24bit / 48k Dead matrixes (soundboard/audience blends by Hunter Seamons) and all shifted automatically to 24-bit.  I'll have to A-B it with the 16 bit version, but I can't say anything about the sound jumped out at me as me superior to the 16/44 recording.
   
  I am really tempted to get some cans since I started reading about them on this site.  With the impedance issues on the amp side of the Explorer, would there be appropriate Sennheisers or Beyerdynamics or Grado or something else appropriate for this DAC/Amp?
   
  I'd like to buy a pair and never replace them.  Over-Ear makes sense for me as I already have the P5s for when I am out and about.  I'd like them to be comfortable, not induce sweat, and most important of all, sound wonderful and as close to natural music as possible.
   
  Maybe this belongs in a new thread.
   
  PS: I think the HD-6xx or the HiFiMan 400s are about as expensive as I'd like to get, unless I am really getting a big boost for the mega money that I see CAN be spent on cans.


----------



## yfei

Thanks for the correction, that's very informative.     After lookup the usb audio class,  yes, "Error detection via CRC, but no retry or guarantee of delivery."    Why it is designed this way is because they assume "if a packet or frame was dropped every now and again, it is less likely to be noticed by the listener."
  (http://www.beyondlogic.org/usbnutshell/usb4.shtml)
   
  Which means the quality of USB cable is important:       lost / corrupted packets are just skipped, and they hope user's won't hear the difference.
   
   
   
  Quote: 





clemmaster said:


> Currently, for USB Audio (even class 2), it is not  It is a common misconception: USB Audio Class 1.0 & 2.0 deal with _isochronous_ endpoints, which *does not feature error correction*.
> 
> The S/PDif features a low-level *protocol* that splits the audio into frames, sub-frames and time-slots.
> 
> USB audio *does not *feature re-transmission or error correction. Only the bulk transfert mode allows for error correction (mass storage devices). The Musiland convertors (Monitor 01 & 02) are the only USB devices I know that don't relie on the isochronous transfert mode (as found in all synchronous, adaptive & asynchronous converters). They rely on the bulk transfert mode and require specific drivers (not USB Class complient).


----------



## Clemmaster

Quote: 





clemmaster said:


> The Musiland convertors (Monitor 01 & 02) are the only USB devices I know that don't relie on the isochronous transfert mode (as found in all synchronous, adaptive & asynchronous converters).


 
   
  Now that I think of it, audio interfaces like the M-Audio Fast Track might also feature a different endpoint (bulk?).
   
  Anyway, there's no apparent need for error correction. Even adaptive endpoints can sound really good already (e.g. USB-32 or even the Tenor 7022L in my Fostex HP-A3).


----------



## jkbkot

Quote: 





netdog said:


> Can anyone answer this question about USB error correction authoritatively?  We're just getting different people saying different things.  I'd love to see a reliable reference.


 
  This thread is worth reading: http://www.head-fi.org/t/565791/on-usb-cables-and-controller-transfer-modes-a-series-of-questions-to-replies-from-usb-org
  The guy asked the admin of usb.org
   
  In short: short is better, jitter is not caused by cable, errors (not received bits) are detected but not recovered, bit flips are highly unlikely, any cheap USB certified cable will do ... all assuming normal home/office environment and properly designed hardware (which I hope the Explorer is)


----------



## jkbkot

Quote: 





jkbkot said:


> Hi, I have tried the Explorer with Ubuntu 12.10. It seems to work out of the box but the volume was very low even though the volume control was set to 100%.
> 
> Meridian says you need ALSA >= 1.0.32
> 
> ...


 
  ... just an update: the Meridian website now states that only Alsa 1.0.23 or greater is required: http://www.meridian-audio.com/en/collections/products/explorer-1000/4/specification/
   
  So it seems like the Explorer is working with Ubuntu 12.10 (that is Alsa 1.0.25) already as it should. And it does work but I'd expect more of it, I hear only a slight improvement over the default soundcard in my ThinkPad (T420 and T530). But I suspect that's because I only have 44.1/16 source files and maybe because I might not exactly be into the "Shure sound signature", as they put it, of my new Shure SE315 (~30 hours burn in). There's too many unknowns as I'm new to all this.


----------



## L0SLobos

Can this thing power low impedance IEM's (such as the 8-ohm Sony XBA-4) without adverse effects?


----------



## n9eryeah

Nice looking product


----------



## Tyll Hertsens

Quote: 





netdog said:


> PS: I think the HD-6xx or the HiFiMan 400s are about as expensive as I'd like to get, unless I am really getting a big boost for the mega money that I see CAN be spent on cans.


 
   
   
  The HD 600 sounds like a good idea to me.  Haven't had a chance to hear it yet (but will soon), the 300+ Ohm impedance of them will pair much better with the 40 Ohm output impedance of the ME than the 50 Ohm impedance of the HE500.


----------



## DTrewwye

Quote: 





tyll hertsens said:


> The HD 600 sounds like a good idea to me.  Haven't had a chance to hear it yet (but will soon), the 300+ Ohm impedance of them will pair much better with the 40 Ohm output impedance of the ME than the 50 Ohm impedance of the HE500.


 

 Tyll please correct me if I'm wrong - don't orthos have less problems with impedance curves?


----------



## estreeter

TAS are at it again - after proclaiming first the Dragonfly, then the ME as their *budget king *in this particular niche, they would seem to have adopted a new standard bearer:
   
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/hrt-microstreamer-pocket-rocket/
   
  I know - _Neil Gader _- but if they keep this up I could well have whiplash by July


----------



## Suopermanni

Umm...do any Head-fi'ers know if either the Meridian or any of its competitors like the Audioquest Dragonfly that work on Windows Vista?


----------



## netdog

With service pack 1, I think the Explorer will run just fine under Windows 7, I.e. Vista. 

It's okay with XP and Windows 8 too.


----------



## Clemmaster

Quote: 





dtrewwye said:


> Tyll please correct me if I'm wrong - don't orthos have less problems with impedance curves?


 
   
  They have less problem because they have (almost) purely resistive impedance, which means the impedance of the planars does not (or barely) vary with frequency. Hence, their frequency response is consistent regardless of the output impedance of the amp driving them.
  So, the 500s won't have the funky frequency response of the dynamic or (worse) BA iems (with their complex crossover network) when paired with high output impedance amps.
   
  That being said, the planars are still subject to electrical damping. The 1/8 rule still applies and the HE-500 might not have the tightest bass or smoothest treble with the ME.


----------



## Suopermanni

Not sure if I quite understand the issue of the high output impedance of this device but am I right in thinking that what it is means such low impedance or efficient full size cans like the Samson SR850 would not match well with this device?


----------



## Clemmaster

Quote: 





suopermanni said:


> Not sure if I quite understand the issue of the high output impedance of this device but am I right in thinking that what it is means such *low impedance* or efficient full size cans like the Samson SR850 would not match well with this device?


 
   
  The low impedance of your can is the problem. The efficiency is not relevant to the ME's output impedance potential problem (the efficiency is more related to the ME's power output, but it's not an issue here).
   
  If the Samson SR850 have a (relatively) flat *impedance response* across the audible range, then the high output impedance won't change the "intended" (original) *frequency response* of the cans.
  If their *impedance response* varies a lot with frequency (as occurs on Balanced-Armature IEMs, which have cross-over network with *complex impedance*, that by nature, varies with frequency), then the intended *frequency response* will be modified (in general, for the worst, but not always).
   
  The amp's output impedance also determine *electrical damping*. Simply put, the higher the damping factor, the quicker the driver "reacts" (= the more the amp has control over the driver). If the damping factor is too low, the driver will be "loose" and bloom will occur (e.g. in the bass).
  The damping factor is defined as DF = Zcan / Zamp. As rule of thumb, DF should be >8. Which means, if the amp has an output impedance of 50R, the can should have an impedance of (at least) 400R.


----------



## netdog

clemmaster said:


> The low impedance of your can is the problem. The efficiency is not relevant to the ME's output impedance potential problem (the efficiency is more related to the ME's power output, but it's not an issue here).
> 
> If the Samson SR850 have a (relatively) flat *impedance response* across the audible range, then the high output impedance won't change the "intended" (original) *frequency response* of the cans.
> If their *impedance response* varies a lot with frequency (as occurs on Balanced-Armature IEMs, which have cross-over network with *complex impedance*, that by nature, varies with frequency), then the intended *frequency response* will be modified (in general, for the worst, but not always).
> ...


 
   
  So what cans would fare well with the Explorer as I already have it?


----------



## Suopermanni

Quote: 





clemmaster said:


> The low impedance of your can is the problem. The efficiency is not relevant to the ME's output impedance potential problem (the efficiency is more related to the ME's power output, but it's not an issue here).
> 
> If the Samson SR850 have a (relatively) flat *impedance response* across the audible range, then the high output impedance won't change the "intended" (original) *frequency response* of the cans.
> If their *impedance response* varies a lot with frequency (as occurs on Balanced-Armature IEMs, which have cross-over network with *complex impedance*, that by nature, varies with frequency), then the intended *frequency response* will be modified (in general, for the worst, but not always).
> ...


 
   
  Wow, thank you for the detailed explanation. I actually expected something something a little less....expansive? Oh well, it's a good learning experience. Anyway, thank you for telling me that, now I know not to get low impedance cans for that device.


----------



## netdog

Oh.  Now I feel thick.  But informed anyway.  I'll start looking through the HeadFi guide for good low impedance headphones.


----------



## citraian

You should start looking for high impedance headphones instead  250 Ohm should be a minimum if the Explorer's output impedance is indeed 50 Ohm


----------



## teofilrocks

Quote: 





clemmaster said:


> If their impedance response varies a lot with frequency (as occurs on Balanced-Armature IEMs, which have cross-over network with complex impedance, that by nature, varies with frequency), then the intended frequency response will be modified (*in general, for the worst, but not always*).
> 
> The amp's output impedance also determine electrical damping. Simply put, the higher the damping factor, the quicker the driver "reacts" (= the more the amp has control over the driver). If the damping factor is too low, *the driver will be "loose" and bloom will occur* (e.g. in the bass).
> The damping factor is defined as DF = Zcan / Zamp. As rule of thumb, DF should be >8. Which means, if the amp has an output impedance of 50R, the can should have an impedance of (at least) 400R.


 
   
  I guess the real question is, how audible is the impedance mismatch? I'm guessing it varies even among equally resistive headphones and also among different sets of ears.


----------



## Clemmaster

Quote: 





teofilrocks said:


> I guess the real question is, how audible is the impedance mismatch? I'm guessing it varies even among equally resistive headphones and also among different sets of ears.


 
   
  One cannot really predict the behavior of the cans, unless both the Frequency and Impedance Response charts are available.
  Once you get the corresponding data, it's fairly easy to derive the FR chart for various amp's output impedance.
   
  Again, the frequency response deviation might even be "for the better" to some users.


----------



## teofilrocks

Quote: 





clemmaster said:


> Again, the frequency response deviation might even be "for the better" to some users.


 
   
  Exactly. That's why I'm not worrying about high output impedance (and because I don't use IEMs). I'll just wait for my ME to arrive on Thursday and give it a listen.


----------



## Clemmaster

Quote: 





teofilrocks said:


> Exactly. That's why I'm not worrying about high output impedance (and because I don't use IEMs). I'll just wait for my ME to arrive on Thursday and give it a listen.


 
   
  The reduced damping factor is, objectively, for the worst though 
   
  If you look at some FR chart for BA IEMs driven with high impedance amps (as provided by Purrin), the FR can become really funky


----------



## Tyll Hertsens

Quote: 





netdog said:


> So what cans would fare well with the Explorer as I already have it?


 
  Any with over 300 Ohms.  HD580/600/650, HD 800, Beyer DT880-600 Ohm, etc.
   
  Ummmm...if I were interested in an ME for low impedance headphones, I'd wait a couple of months. Jus' sayin'.


----------



## teofilrocks

Quote: 





tyll hertsens said:


> Ummmm...if I were interested in an ME for low impedance headphones, I'd wait a couple of months. Jus' sayin'.


 
   
  Uh-oh spaghettios.


----------



## netdog

Is there any chance that Meridian can fix this with a firmware update?  I know that they designed it so that the firmware could be easily updated by the user.


----------



## vrln

I don't think so, output impedance changes require hardware modification. The Explorer is just simply not suited for driving IEMs. My guess looking at Tyll's comment is that Meridian plans to launch an IEM edition eventually. It would be good damage control too as the facts are now out. Ideally Meridian should have been honest about the specs all along and not hide them instead. Those looking for a portable product like this for IEMs should take a look at the HRT MicroStreamer, output impedance quoted in the specs is 0,5 ohms.

That being said, I'd still be interested in an IEM edition of the Explorer despite all the drama.


----------



## Tyll Hertsens

Quote: 





vrln said:


> Ideally Meridian should have been honest about the specs all along and not hide them instead.


 
   
  Oh I don't think they were being dishonest.  I think they were simply not intimately familiar with the new market they were getting into and made an understandable misjudgement of what was needed to cover the all the headphones of interest.


----------



## telecaster

Maybe some claims should be taken, as always in all things audio, with a pinch of salt:
  My take on this is is that damping factor, reguarding the looseness of the diaphragm in dynamic headphone is close to nill.
  But damping factor affect the frequency response, and it may be that HD800 will sound better to most with low damping factor.
  The norm is high impedance output for headphones (120ohms) and manufacturers may well tune their headphones to accomodate this. i.e the akg 701, but many more are succeptible to be designed that way.
   
  My Balanced armature xba4 sound shrill with my low impedance phone output, but with the explorer it sounds really good.
  Remember that in audio you have your tastes as well as measurements, and outlandish claims comes to make you buy the new best thing.
   
http://rockgrotto.proboards.com/thread/7589
http://www.head-fi.org/t/598565/damping-factor-why-it-is-not-always-as-important-as-some-make-it-out-to-be
http://www.head-fi.org/t/340327/damping-factor-for-headphones
http://www.head-fi.org/t/617902/effects-of-damping-factor-on-planar-magnetics-orthodynamics
http://www.head-fi.org/t/602788/damping-factor-impedance-response-can-any-amp-drive-a-headphone-with-flat-impedance-response
   
  Meridian may have choosed this output impedance to permit the use of the explorer to drive powered speakers with the quiet analogue volume control of the 47ohms output.
   
  Sound is really good with my HD650.

 YMMV!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





telecaster said:


> Meridian may have choosed chosen this output impedance to permit the use of the explorer to drive powered speakers with the quiet analogue volume control of the 47ohms output.
> 
> Given that Meridian's own expertise seems to be in 'enhanced' active speakers (DSP and DAC built into the speaker enclosure), there may be something to this - in any case, I suspect that they put more time and effort into the DAC section than the headphone amp, but that's pure speculation. The electronics experts can comment on this, but I dont think any of the aforementioned issues around the output impedance on the headphone out will impact the ME's utility as a DAC in a speaker rig. Everything I've read on the line-level output seems to point to happy campers in the speaker world.


----------



## vrln

Quote: 





tyll hertsens said:


> Oh I don't think they were being dishonest.  I think they were simply not intimately familiar with the new market they were getting into and made an understandable misjudgement of what was needed to cover the all the headphones of interest.


 
   
  Good point, but then it seems they didn´t do their homework properly. If they had consulted even a few enthusiastic hobbyists they would have known that output impedance will be scrutinized just like on every other portable amp device these days. The choice of optimizing for 300 ohm or so headphones is fully ok, but even then I feel it should have been openly stated in at least an FAQ section on their site. iRivers engineers for example recently admitted the same on the 6Moons review of the Astell & Kern AK100 DAP. 
   
  Being silent about the whole impedance topic and not including even the most basic measurements like crosstalk, SNR etc on their official spec sheet is still puzzling to me, even if they were caught off guard. It´s Meridian´s first headphone product, sure, but I´d expect more from such a well established company. Anyone who´s followed the scene even remotely would know that sensitive low-ohm headphones are a current trend because of popular battery powered mobile electronics. My guess is that the Explorer was built as a DAC first (might even be pretty good) and foremost, then had a hastily put together (compared to the DAC section) headphone amp added.


----------



## MoonUnit

Quote: 





tyll hertsens said:


> Ummmm...if I were interested in an ME for low impedance headphones, I'd wait a couple of months. Jus' sayin'.


 
   
  If Meridian is telling dealers that they're going to release an updated version of the Explorer in a few months to correct the defects of the current model and those dealers are not telling prospective customers, that's pretty sad.
   
  Mine arrived today (I ordered before the output impedance issue was discovered; TTVJ was backordered). Not sure whether it's even worth opening the box now.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





moonunit said:


> If Meridian is telling dealers that they're going to release an updated version of the Explorer in a few months to correct the defects of the current model and those dealers are not telling prospective customers, that's pretty sad.
> 
> Mine arrived today (I ordered before the output impedance issue was discovered; TTVJ was backordered). Not sure whether it's even worth opening the box now.


 
   
  Why throw the baby out with the bathwater before you've even_ heard _it with *your* cans ? If you are so genuinely disturbed by the impedance issue, I'm sure Todd would be a lot happier to get his ME back unopened, but of all the impressions given so far here and elsewhere, the positive far outweigh the negative - even if you do agree with Purrin that it's not your cup of tea, why not give it 48 hours before making that call ?
   
  Tyll is an industry insider, but the last time I checked he doesn't run Meridian, and until Bob Stuart joins Head-Fi I would hold off on any kneejerk reactions.
   
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meridian_Audio
   
  Disclaimer : I dont have a dog in this fight, but  this thread illustrates the best and worst of the FOTM mentality. I'd like to see a few more impressions of the ME purely as a DAC - either using a separate headamp or into a speaker rig - but we seem to have settled on the sole fly in the ointment as the focus of our discussion.


----------



## arnaud

So much looking forward to my explorer mk2 . That's how fast the D/A converter scene moves nowadays. Obsolescence within 72 hours!


----------



## MoonUnit

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Why throw the baby out with the bathwater before you've even_ heard _it with *your* cans ? If you are so genuinely disturbed by the impedance issue, I'm sure Todd would be a lot happier to get his ME back unopened, but of all the impressions given so far here and elsewhere, the positive far outweigh the negative - even if you do agree with Purrin that it's not your cup of tea, why not give it 48 hours before making that call ?
> 
> Tyll is an industry insider, but the last time I checked he doesn't run Meridian, and until Bob Stuart joins Head-Fi I would hold off on any kneejerk reactions.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Sorry, my earlier post came across as a little bit lame. I just meant that it was likely I would return it so it's probably better not to break the seal on the box so Todd can resell it easily.


----------



## L0SLobos

That's [referring to ME] pretty bad design if output impedance is in fact 50 ohm. Not good at all for iem's, yet they consider this thing portable. In real world performance, manufacturers should aim for an output impedance of less than 1 ohm, so it can work perfectly with anything. Not buying this until new model with low output impedance comes around.


----------



## estreeter

MoonUnit - no probs, and that is absolutely your right. I doubt that Todd is very happy about this either.


----------



## feverfive

I'm a bit torn whether I should return mine to Todd.  It was delivered to me a few days ago, and I don't necessarily note any "issues" w/ high impedance for my use:  purely portable use w/ my laptop using IEM's.  Still...it would bug me if/when a lower impedance model is released so soon.  Guess that makes me shallow in a way.


----------



## estreeter

When the LCD-2 was released, most of Head-Fi raved about it. When the _Rev2_ was released, did the first edition suddenly become a 'bad' headphone ? Tough one.


----------



## vikingboy

Has anyone / any dealers spoken to Meridian about this "issue"? Have they acknowledged a problem? To me there isn't one, the sound with my Shure E530's is as crisp and clean/controlled as with my  sub 1 Ohm Pico DAC output and nothing to suggest that the ME is lacking control as a result of its higher impedance value. I can see that there are certain phones that dont play well with the ME, but isnt this the same issue as with the usual 'synergy' with any amp/speaker combo? Hey my SET amps cant drive my 'hard-to-drive' Revels....doesnt mean there is anything wrong with them. Doesnt feel to me like a V2 is warranted given all the positive praise and small amount of criticism and Ifind it hard to believe, though not impossible that a company with Meridians track record would overlook this. 
  For the time being, I'll continue to enjoy my ME and watch from the sidelines for any developments.


----------



## plakat

I'd be quite surprised if they would offer a rev 2 so fast... does not fit with the image Meridian seems to pursue.


----------



## zilch0md

Quote: 





clemmaster said:


> The low impedance of your can is the problem. The efficiency is not relevant to the ME's output impedance potential problem (the efficiency is more related to the ME's power output, but it's not an issue here).
> 
> If the Samson SR850 have a (relatively) flat *impedance response* across the audible range, then the high output impedance won't change the "intended" (original) *frequency response* of the cans.
> If their *impedance response* varies a lot with frequency (as occurs on Balanced-Armature IEMs, which have cross-over network with *complex impedance*, that by nature, varies with frequency), then the intended *frequency response* will be modified (in general, for the worst, but not always).
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





suopermanni said:


> Wow, thank you for the detailed explanation. I actually expected something something a little less....expansive? Oh well, it's a good learning experience. Anyway, thank you for telling me that, now I know not to get low impedance cans for that device.


 
   
  My problem is that I'm always expecting something a little more...  like Clemmaster's posts!  
   
  Bring on the details!  It's exceedingly rare to find someone who actually knows what he's talking about -AND- has the ability to communicate so well.





   
  Mike


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





vikingboy said:


> Has anyone / any dealers spoken to Meridian about this "issue"? Have they acknowledged a problem? To me there isn't one, the sound with my Shure E530's is as crisp and clean/controlled as with my  sub 1 Ohm Pico DAC output and nothing to suggest that the ME is lacking control as a result of its higher impedance value.  I can see that there are certain phones that dont play well with the ME, but isnt this the same issue as with the usual 'synergy' with any amp/speaker combo?


 
   
  I'm experiencing the same with my FitEar 334s.  All I can say is since this issue became known I've spent significant time back and forth with this and my DragonFly and as much as I'd like to go back to the more compact DF, the Meridian provides significantly better sound throughout the spectrum.  The only thing I could say that might hint at this is the bass is reduced in quantity while the mids are more present and the treble *seems* more extended, but there is better clarity and control everywhere.  Vocals are more intelligible, guitars crunch better, drums/percussion have more power and snap, bass has more depth and lacks bloat, the latter which actually is probably the biggest issue with the DF -> 334/000 pairing - it can sound muddy w/ recordings that have significant amounts of bass.  Perhaps this is a natural quality of this earphone/cable I'm not a fan of, I don't know.  Overall it's a leaner and cleaner sound.


----------



## arnaud

Quote: 





vikingboy said:


> Has anyone / any dealers spoken to Meridian about this "issue"? Have they acknowledged a problem? To me there isn't one, the sound with my Shure E530's is as crisp and clean/controlled as with my  sub 1 Ohm Pico DAC output and nothing to suggest that the ME is lacking control as a result of its higher impedance value. I can see that there are certain phones that dont play well with the ME, but isnt this the same issue as with the usual 'synergy' with any amp/speaker combo? Hey my SET amps cant drive my 'hard-to-drive' Revels....doesnt mean there is anything wrong with them. Doesnt feel to me like a V2 is warranted given all the positive praise and small amount of criticism and Ifind it hard to believe, though not impossible that a company with Meridians track record would overlook this.
> For the time being, I'll continue to enjoy my ME and watch from the sidelines for any developments.


 
   
  There isn't an issue in the sense the product is functioning as intended. Now, you can't simply swipe under the carpet the fact that the headphone out is a potential  mismatch to a some low impedance phones, severely altering their response. It may indeed work better with your particular headphone and/or taste or else your can is resilient to such high output impedance of the amp and low damping factor, but it's quite unreasonable to assume it's going to sound great no matter what headphone you use. 
   
  Out of curiosity, I went to headroom site to compare the impedance curve of your SE530 to other cans and from a brief look it does not quite vary as much as I expected with frequency. Maybe that's the reason why you're not hearing much difference. But look at the 315, even within the same product family all bets are off:


----------



## Clemmaster

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> My problem is that I'm always expecting something a little more...  like Clemmaster's posts!
> 
> Bring on the details!  It's exceedingly rare to find someone who actually knows what he's talking about -AND- has the ability to communicate so well.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for the nice comment! Particularly since English is not my mother tongue and I always most of the time feel like something is "not right" in what I write ^^
   
  Anyway, the credits should go to Tyll. I'm just repeating the same story with different words (simpler words, due to my lower english skills ).


----------



## zilch0md

And you're modest, too!


----------



## wfranklin

Quote: 





moonunit said:


> If Meridian is telling dealers that they're going to release an updated version of the Explorer in a few months to correct the defects of the current model and those dealers are not telling prospective customers, that's pretty sad.
> 
> Mine arrived today (I ordered before the output impedance issue was discovered; TTVJ was backordered). Not sure whether it's even worth opening the box now.


 
  What a crock of BS.  The ME is a great product for the price.  I wish people would quit bitching about its shortcomings on paper and just enjoy the product!


----------



## vikingboy

Quote: 





arnaud said:


> There isn't an issue in the sense the product is functioning as intended. Now, you can't simply swipe under the carpet the fact that the headphone out is a potential  mismatch to a some low impedance phones, severely altering their response. It may indeed work better with your particular headphone and/or taste or else your can is resilient to such high output impedance of the amp and low damping factor, but it's quite unreasonable to assume it's going to sound great no matter what headphone you use.
> 
> Out of curiosity, I went to headroom site to compare the impedance curve of your SE530 to other cans and from a brief look it does not quite vary as much as I expected with frequency. Maybe that's the reason why you're not hearing much difference. But look at the 315, even within the same product family all bets are off:


 
   
  Thats a pretty interesting site, thanks for the heads-up. Ive got some Unique Melody Miracles inbound so will be interesting to see how they react with the ME. A much lower impedance and more detailed presentation so should show any weaknesses easily.


----------



## nico159

I have just tried the Meridian Explorer on Samsung Galaxy S3 + USB AUDIO Recorder PRO and...WORKING!
   
  But no options for setting the amp level


----------



## Tyll Hertsens

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> I'm experiencing the same with my FitEar 334s.  All I can say is since this issue became known I've spent significant time back and forth with this and my DragonFly and as much as I'd like to go back to the more compact DF, the Meridian provides significantly better sound throughout the spectrum.


 
   
  The DF had an early issue as well, and a subsequent change about 3 months in.  (This stuff happens all the time.)
   
   
  Do you know if you have the early or current DF?


----------



## citraian

Quote: 





tyll hertsens said:


> The DF had an early issue as well, and a subsequent change about 3 months in.  (This stuff happens all the time.)
> 
> 
> Do you know if you have the early or current DF?


 
  Hey Tyll, can you provide more details about this issue? Also, how does one find out if he has the early or current DF?


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





tyll hertsens said:


> The DF had an early issue as well, and a subsequent change about 3 months in.  (This stuff happens all the time.)
> 
> Do you know if you have the early or current DF?


 
   
  I have the one prior to the change.  
   
  We have Gordon Rankin on this forum and Computer Audiophile responding to my concerns about output impedance claiming it to be sub zero prior to this change.  The only thing I recall changing was there was a certain amount of distortion above 60 steps, so the range was changed from 64 -> 60 steps - just a volume limiter, nothing that would impact sonics.  Any references detailing other changes?  I certainly heard nothing about changes to output impedance or if that was an issue, but I largely tuned out from discussions on the DF awhile back.  
   
  Edit:
   
http://www.stereophile.com/content/audioquest-dragonfly-usb-da-converter-measurements
   
  "With the first sample of the DragonFly, a full-scale 24-bit signal actually clipped the bottom halves of the waveform with the computer's volume control set to its maximum, giving a THD+noise level of 3.8%. Backing off the control by one click (–0.17dB) reduced the THD to 2.14%, by a second click (–0.34dB) to 0.627%, and by a third click (–0.51dB) to 0.054%, below which the THD+N percentage plateaued. The second sample didn't clip with a 0dBFS signal at maximum volume, and the THD+N was 0.041% rather than 3.8%. According to Gordon Rankin, the volume control offers 64 steps of less than 1dB to –60dB and then mute (–100dB), but he used only 60 of those steps in the DragonFly, as the top four steps suffered from significant clipping into high impedances. "In retrospect," he wrote of the first sample, "I could have changed the maximum volume down a few more steps and then this would not have been an issue."
 Basically, it looked as if the running change in production was to implement this suggestion of Rankin's, as the spectrum of the second DragonFly sample's output with a full-scale 1kHz signal at maximum volume was identical to that of the first sample's output set to –0.51dB (fig.8)."


----------



## markm1

Quote: 





nico159 said:


> I have just tried the Meridian Explorer on Samsung Galaxy S3 + USB AUDIO Recorder PRO and...WORKING!
> 
> But no options for setting the amp level


 
  I'm new to this so be gentle 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 You attatched with a USB Lineout as you would w/ an Ipod?


----------



## nico159

On Android the situation is different 
My S3 dont support the Explorer, but developers can create app that controls directly the usb device 

USB Audio Recorder Pro implements the entire usb audio protocol, but this functionality is limited inside this app. Others app cant use it to play audio and this app has only very basic audio player support 
So it's like an hack 
But in future this app will permit other player to play audio through it (another Android only feature) 

I'm not native english speaker, sorry


----------



## markm1

Quote: 





nico159 said:


> On Android the situation is different
> My S3 dont support the Explorer, but developers can create app that controls directly the usb device
> 
> USB Audio Recorder Pro implements the entire usb audio protocol, but this functionality is limited inside this app. Others app cant use it to play audio and this app has only very basic audio player support
> ...


 
  No  apologies needed-you're English is is just fine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'm not familiar with USB Audio Recorder Pro. I'll have to do some research.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## Tyll Hertsens

I heard they also made a bit of a power supply change on the DF.


----------



## Carlsan

Got my Meridian today. I bought it for my work computer.
  What a great sound for such a little device. Have it with a crappy Dell work pc.
   
  Started strangly enough.
  First headphones that I used, Beyer's T5p's, sounded off. Sound was flat. I clicked on the volume control, which was set at about 90% on the pc, then something kicked in.
The sound level all of a sudden got much higher, and the music coming out of the headphones was the best quality  that I have ever heard at work.
   
I'll eventually try other closed back headphones, and earphones as well and let you guys know what I think, but for now, too busy with work, and enjoying some great music.


----------



## Carlsan

Posted this on another thread, sorry for breaking forum rules but I thought this would be of direct interest to those of you following this thread:
   
   
   


> > I'll try to remember to test my xba-40's on the Meridian tomorrow. I have it at work, got it today, and ran my Beyer T5p's all day without any problems (I know, expensive headphone outta sound great, right, but I bought it used for a steal). Meridian sounded fantastic, but didn't have time to try out other headphones or earphones with it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## bobeau

FWIW:
   
  XBA-40 = 8 ohms, quad ba
  MDRXB90-EX = 16 ohms, single dynamic


----------



## vrln

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> FWIW:
> 
> XBA-40 = 8 ohms, quad ba
> MDRXB90-EX = 16 ohms, single dynamic


 
  Indeed. And it´s important to remember that quoted impedance is usually just the average. With dynamic drivers the plot is usually more stable, with BA´s it can go pretty wild. With the Explorers output impedance it´s no wonder XBA-40 sounds horrible, frequency response will be all over the place. It won´t be accurate with MDRXB90 either though, but at least better than with the XBA-40. With 250-300 ohm headphones one will finally hear the headphones as they were designed.


----------



## feverfive

Heh, I bought (& just got today) a pair of Beyerdynamic T70 (250 ohm).  I wasn't planning to do so, but stumbled across a great deal on Amazon.  Anywho, these out of the ME hp out seem to be a much better combination (even right out of the box) than my Earsonics SM64 iem's.  I'll just have to re-think what "portable" really means to me, I guess as I do really enjoy the ME's presentation.  The whole high output impedance thing was a real downer for me, but rather than just toss it away (i.e. sending it back to Todd), I'm willing to try other ways of enjoying it.  YMMV of course.


----------



## Dsnuts

Agreed. It seems 16 ohm plus earphones drives just fine out of the Meridian. In fact sounds great. I don't plan on sending mine back any time soon. I don't have any issue with the high impedance out at all.


----------



## estreeter

Glad to hear that you found a combination to your liking, feverfive - imagine how you would have felt if you had simply sent it back to Todd only to see reports from others that they were having no issues with their phones .....


----------



## arnaud

And I should add, one should just sell off the headphone and buy another if does not sound right with the explorer!


----------



## teofilrocks

I hope it's okay to mention this, but I received word from Meridian, through the dealer I purchased through, that they know about and are addressing the low-impedance concern. In particular:


> ... a few weeks ago we made a running change in manufacture to broaden compatibility ...


 
   
  I don't know the specifics of what this change has been, but I've already inquired Meridian about it.


----------



## Aerocraft67

Did Meridian say anything about replacing the units already sold?


----------



## teofilrocks

Quote: 





aerocraft67 said:


> Did Meridian say anything about replacing the units already sold?


 
   
  They invited customers who've bought the Explorer to contact them with the unit S/N, dealer used, etc. if they feel their experience is being affected by the headphones they're using.
   
  Edit: They did not specifically mention replacements, to answer your question more directly. Not that I would expect them to publicly offer such. The product isn't "defective". But it seemed clear they want happy customers.


----------



## MoonUnit

Quote: 





teofilrocks said:


> They invited customers who've bought the Explorer to contact them with the unit S/N, dealer used, etc. if they feel their experience is being affected by the headphones they're using.
> 
> Edit: They did not specifically mention replacements, to answer your question more directly. Not that I would expect them to publicly offer such. The product isn't "defective". But it seemed clear they want happy customers.


 
   
  Did they specify what e-mail address or phone number to contact them at?


----------



## Carlsan

Quote: 





vrln said:


> Indeed. And it´s important to remember that quoted impedance is usually just the average. With dynamic drivers the plot is usually more stable, with BA´s it can go pretty wild. With the Explorers output impedance it´s no wonder XBA-40 sounds horrible, frequency response will be all over the place. It won´t be accurate with MDRXB90 either though, but at least better than with the XBA-40. With 250-300 ohm headphones one will finally hear the headphones as they were designed.


 
   
  As I was the one who tested the xba-40 with the Explorer, I do have to be clear, they did not sound terrible, they sounded like they were missing their magic. The full spectrum of sound wasn't quite there. Without hearing what the xba-40 is capable of, one could be quite satisfied with what they were hearing. Granted the MDRXB90 did sound better, but not by much.
   
  I still think the Explorer is a good unit, but one that is going to be very picky about what you use with it, unless you USE AN EXTERNAL AMP. 
  As a DAC it seems to work flawlessly.


----------



## netdog

Yes, as a DAC it's great.


----------



## Aerocraft67

Quote: 





tyll hertsens said:


> Regardless of the efficiency, the damping factor will remain the same, which is to say poor. The headphones will not be as tight, clear, and impactive if the output impedance is high.


 
   
  I'm not eager to pursue "compensation" with Meridian, since I don't feel directly impacted by the impedance issue, given my high-Z phones and plans to listen primarily through an outboard amp. And the hassle may not be worth the outcome.
   
  That said, the above quote gnaws at me, implying unnecessary performance degradation at any Z. And the high output Z kerfluffle does depreciate the value of my investment considerably more than "normal,"even if its impact on my application is negligible, and we're ultimately talking about a $300 device. And maybe I'll fancy low-Z phones someday. So lots to consider.
   
  Anyway, gratifying to see some responsiveness here, which reduces overall concerns about dubious implementation and integrity. Looking forward to seeing it through.


----------



## Tyll Hertsens

Quote: 





teofilrocks said:


> I hope it's okay to mention this, but I received word from Meridian, through the dealer I purchased through, that they know about and are addressing the low-impedance concern. In particular:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  This is what I've heard as well. Sell through at stores is very high, units in current production have the change. Next shipment through retailers should have the change.  Should be less than a month. Likely anything currently on backorder will be the new units----educated guess.
   
  Don't know what return/exchange policies will be.


----------



## mikemercer

I'm finally using one now - after hearing it at CES briefly.
   
  So far, when I got back to the HRT microStreamer (using my trust JH Audio JH-13's and Sennheiser HD 25-1 IIs) I find the microStreamer, with these cans and to my ears, far more seductive in its presentation.  Meaning: I get more of an emotional connection to the music.  The Meridian's detail retrieval is fine, but it sounds like great Hi-fi to me.  The HRT sounds more like music.
   
  I'll report more soon...


----------



## vrln

With those two low impedance headphones you won´t be listening to their original voicing at all on the Meridian Explorer due to the high output impedance. The HRT on the other hand has an output impedance of 0,5 so frequency response is left as originally designed.


----------



## Eisenhower

Quote: 





attilahun said:


> This is clearly the beginning of the micro dac revolution.
> Audioquest blew the doors open and now we're going to see a slew of similar products.


 
   
  Pretty soon they might even start embedding them into the source themselves! Like, could you imagine how convenient it would be to have a DAC built directly into your laptop or iPod?


----------



## purrin

Quote: 





vrln said:


> With those two low impedance headphones you won´t be listening to their original voicing at all on the Meridian Explorer due to the high output impedance. The HRT on the other hand has an output impedance of 0,5 so frequency response is left as originally designed.


 
   
  Exactly.
   
  My experience with the Meridian could have been completely different with transducers other than the HE-500 or UERM. I found the Meridian quite adequate with the V-Moda M80, which has a nominal impedance of around 30ohms, but its curve is actually fairly level never rising above 35ohms throughout the band. Other headphones with highish impedance, such as the HD650 or HD800 would be less affected. The ER-4S would probably sound brighter than usual given its lowish impedance and rising curve. This is why certain people felt the Meridian was less bassy than the Dragonfly with other IEMs.
   
  Using the Meridian strictly as a DAC would yield the most consistent results.


----------



## MoonUnit

I ended up opening my Meridian Explorer up to listen to after all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I'm not sure if I have the version with the hardware changes. Mine has a serial number which ends in "R", which is different than the serial number someone else posted.
   
  Here are my brief comments:

 As a DAC, through the fixed level output, it's astonishingly good. I was really surprised. It's a little on the warm side of neutral, and there is a hint of grain in the highs, but the bass is remarkable and the overall dynamics are impressive. For the price, it's a good value.
 As a DAC through the variable level output, it's still quite good. There is a hint more grain in the highs though.
 As a headphone amp it's very poor (except on my HD-650s). The worst headphones I've tried with it are my Apple Earpods... with those, Purrin is right, it's easy to tell that it's worse than a laptop headphone out (even my crusty old IBM T61). Granted they're overly bassy to begin with, but that just makes the bass control issue easier to spot.
 One of my computers (a 2012 Mac Mini) develops an incompatibility with it after a certain period of time. It either starts to stutter or just stops playing audio. I'd imagine this is a firmware bug in Meridian's asynch implementation. Perhaps it can be fixed with a firmware upgrade. My Mac laptop doesn't seem to have the same issue.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





eisenhower said:


> Pretty soon they might even start embedding them into the source themselves! Like, could you imagine how convenient it would be to have a DAC built directly into your laptop or iPod?


 
   
   
  OK - I'm assuming there was more than a little mild _sarcasm_ in that, but I wouldnt object to Meridian being selected as the *'sonic consultant' *on a high-end laptop from the likes of Sony or HP. God knows we've all had to endure years of Harmon or their ilk being splashed all over the marketing courtesy of a tinny pair of speakers and some sort of whizbang 'UltraBass' processing or other. Always struck me as odd that B&W have a readymade product in the MM-1 - literally a plug-and-play solution - but not one of the big laptop manufacturers got together to offer a deal on the combination of a nice laptop and their speakers.
   
  The iPod DAC, otoh, probably isnt as bad as many would have you believe - its the amp that let's it down, IMO. In any case, Voldemort ran measurements on a 4th Gen Touch some time back that were surprisingly positive compared to his personal preference, the Clip+.


----------



## netdog

Okay.  I've called my dealer here in the UK.  They are a pretty large outfit and were not aware of the problem, but they are going to call Meridian about a replacement.
   
  I'll let you all know what happens.


----------



## bobeau

I called my dealer in NYC and they haven't heard anything either.  
   
  Anyone who inquired with Meridian get a note back on this?


----------



## teofilrocks

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> I called my dealer in NYC and they haven't heard anything either.
> 
> Anyone who inquired with Meridian get a note back on this?


 
   
  I emailed them towards the end of last week. I haven't heard back yet.


----------



## Carlsan

Checked out the amp out with a pair of T-Peos  h-100's, they sound really good.   
  Guess I shouldn't be surprised, since they are 32 Ohm earphones.
   
   
   
  Spec's on the H-100'S
   
   
 Driver Unit: Balanced Armature and Dynamic Driver
 Impedance: 32 Ohm
 Sensitivity: 101 dB
 Frequency Response: 20Hz-20kHz
 Power: 100 mW


----------



## crooner

Got my Explorer from Todd on Saturday. It's from the latest batch. I don't know for sure if the impedance issue has been fixed on my unit or not, but the sound quality is superb on the thing. Very relaxed, non fatiguing sound. I can confirm the headphone output can be used as a variable line level output into a conventional preamp or power amp with no problems. Plenty of output for the best S/N ratio.
   
  I also noticed the Meridian USB 2 driver is very stable and less prone to dropouts or stutter with PC lattency issues.
   
  In all, very satisfied with it thus far...


----------



## mikemercer

Quote: 





vrln said:


> With those two low impedance headphones you won´t be listening to their original voicing at all on the Meridian Explorer due to the high output impedance. The HRT on the other hand has an output impedance of 0,5 so frequency response is left as originally designed.


 
  YUP, which is why I only bothered trying my Audeze LCD3's with the Explorer once for giggles!!
   
  I can drive my LCD3's all day with the HRT microStreamer!
   

   
   
   
  So, needless to say - I'm sticking to the microStreamer - but the Explorer could be fine as a DAC.
   
  Actually, perhaps this is why MANY reviewers haven't even mentioned the Explorers headphone amp in their reviews!


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





carlsan said:


> Checked out the amp out with a pair of T-Peos  h-100's, they sound really good.
> Guess I shouldn't be surprised, since they are 32 Ohm earphones.
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Based on the rule of eights,* 8 x 50 = 400ohms*. Your 32-ohm BA phones might be better equipped to handle high output impedance than a pair of 16-ohm cans, but they are a long way from the  _400+ ohm_ Senns/Beyers/whatever  (or lower impedance orthos, which could care less about output impedance courtesy of their low sensitivity). As others have pointed out, the damping factor is of equal concern to any possible frequency response issues. but if you aren't hearing woolly bass the life is good. Pass the pretzels and party on


----------



## estreeter

Seems WHF are jumping the microStreamer bandwagon :
   
_The DAC shootout in this months What Hi-Fi put the HRT microStreamer up against the following DACs:_
  

 _Arcam rDAC_
 _Arcam rPAC_
 _AudioQuest DragonFly_
 _Furutech ADL Stride_
 _Lindy LDAC-Pro_
 _Meridian Explorer DAC_
 _Micromega MyDAC_
 _Musical Fidelity V-DAC II_
   
_They were surprised that the all conquering AudioQuest DragonFly was beaten by both the Meridian Explorer and the HRT microStreamer, both of which exhibited better dynamics and detail. But their closing remarks say it all:_
  


> _Those two contenders easily merited five stars, but of the two it was the unassuming HRT microStreamer that truly captivated us with a stunningly agile-paced performance that reveals layers of subtlety hitherto unheard of with just a pair of headphones and a laptop. Factor in it's £180 price tag and it was a no-brainer: the microStreamer is the perfect sub £200 option for a brilliant portable system that'll keep your music sounding superb._





>





> Stuff it-* hype train *or no, I'm sold - my MSII has served me well over the last 2-3 years and its clear that Kevin knows how to build a DAC. Ordering now.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> >
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Alright... I'm picking one up, curiosity is getting the best of me.  If I like it then I can sell my ME and come out ahead with a smaller device that saps less power from my laptop.  If not then it should be an easy resell for minimal loss.
   
  Are there any other devices like this coming out soon?


----------



## estreeter

Of course there are more devices 'like this' coming out soon - the question is whether they will be as good as the current crop. When the SABRE became all the rage, every man and his brother seemed to be releasing a SABRE-equipped DAC - history has shown that there were hits and misses. Your crystal ball is as good as mine.


----------



## Aerocraft67

All you lose with Microstreamer vs. Explorer is playback of sampling rates greater than 96 kHz and the optical out. Headphone output power looks to be the same, although odd that the otherwise thoroughly-specified Microstreamer does not give an impedance reference for the headphone ouptput power, even though the voltage spec is probably apt. The Microstreamer form factor looks more practical than Explorer's, if not as aesthetically creative. Of course there's the handsome price, not to mention that you can order it on Amazon, which is a big plus. Assuming the sound is comparable, Microstreamer looks like the better value at 40% less, shipped. New FOTM!


----------



## Aerocraft67

Odd WHF did not include compatriot iFi iDAC in the comparo.


----------



## telecaster

The microstreamer has no digital out so it's no use for those who want a USB asynchronous to use with their high end system which is the primary purpose of the explorer


----------



## netdog

Actually from what I've read, most of us are using the analog line out with great success.


----------



## Carlsan

I have to say that the Explorer /Objective2 amp are quite a nice pairing. Deep bass, fine mids, nice highs, excellent open sound stage with detail.
   
  In my office, using it with my Beyer T5p, it really rivals my home setup.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Of course there are more devices 'like this' coming out soon - the question is whether they will be as good as the current crop. When the SABRE became all the rage, every man and his brother seemed to be releasing a SABRE-equipped DAC - history has shown that there were hits and misses. Your crystal ball is as good as mine.


 
   
  I meant is there anything specifically known coming out.  I wasn't aware of the ME until the day it was released, and wasn't even aware of the Microstreamer until seeing it mentioned in discussions with the ME even though it hit the market weeks before the ME.  The Dragonfly though I recall being aware some time before it was released, and in general upcoming headphones/earphones that's the case as well.  
   
  Quote: 





aerocraft67 said:


> All you lose with Microstreamer vs. Explorer is playback of sampling rates greater than 96 kHz and the optical out. Headphone output power looks to be the same, although odd that the otherwise thoroughly-specified Microstreamer does not give an impedance reference for the headphone ouptput power, even though the voltage spec is probably apt. The Microstreamer form factor looks more practical than Explorer's, if not as aesthetically creative. Of course there's the handsome price, not to mention that you can order it on Amazon, which is a big plus. Assuming the sound is comparable, Microstreamer looks like the better value at 40% less, shipped. New FOTM!


 
   
  Just to be clear, they do state it's .5 ohm for headphone out: http://highresolutiontechnologies.com/microstreamer#prods
   
  I thought this measurement was supposed to the max?  Or is it more of an average?  Nonetheless, it should be a good assumption that it will never go beyond 2ohms, right?
   
  I don't listen to high res so that's not a concern for me, it's down to sound/draw/form factor as I do remote work with an 11" MBA.  The MS is specced for 150mA draw, I believe the ME was mentioned somewhere to be pulling somewhere around the USB spec (ie. 500, and it does seem to draw down battery about 3x as fast compared to rough tests I did against the DragonFly... the DF nicks about 30 mins, the ME about 1.5 hours vs. using the laptop's headphone out at similar volume on my TG334s).


----------



## Maxx134

yfei said:


> After lookup the usb audio class,  yes, "Error detection via CRC, but no retry or guarantee of delivery."    Why it is designed this way is because they assume "if a packet or frame was dropped every now and again, it is less likely to be noticed by the listener."
> (http://www.beyondlogic.org/usbnutshell/usb4.shtml)
> 
> Which means the quality of USB cable is important:       lost / corrupted packets are just skipped, and they hope user's won't hear the difference.



Your presumption of a USB wire creating a "packet loss" is 
Edit * 
A distinct possibility..





doomforce said:


> There are posts earlier on the topic of USB cables; some people argue that it makes a tremendous difference regarding the phase sync between the device and the DAC....



*EDIT*
The issue here lies in What I believe to be a combination of jitter and interference..
I only believed when I herd a benefit of cable change for myself.




yfei said:


> A poor cable may introduce higher rate of packet loss, and cause more delayed re-transmissions...
> 
> But I agree that these only should be a concern for very long cables, or very poor cables.    Any >$10 short cables should be the same.



*EDIT*

A poor cable MAY introduce EITHER SOME loss OR INTERFERENCE IF POOR SHIELDING..

A piece of 3ft cable whether usb or speaker or telephone or anything is ...
BLA BLA SORRY I AM MISTAKEN OVER THE THEORETICAL THINKING..

I will take it further to the realistic, real world level and say a ONE DOLLAR cable at the 99cent store will do.

*EDIT*
TRIED AND NOTICED A DIFFERENCE (! )
So I have to rescind my original post(!) And take back what I said!

Finally I have to say that a "portable" USB/DAC that is not engineered to use "portable" headphones (that are necessarily low impedance),
Is an enigma and contradictory to what its intendid use would be for.
*EDIT*
THE output impedance is a limiting factor with this unit if not corrected then it plays best with higher impedance cans.


----------



## Clemmaster

Quote: 





maxx134 said:


> This is a huge misconception.
> There is:
> ZERO phase shift.
> Zero impedance
> ...


 
   
  If you want to prove your point, you shouldn't start with such assessment. The above is simply not true 
  Every single peace of wire has all of the above and is subject to the laws of electromagnetism (Maxwell will be happy to hear that ).
   
  The effect of  the impedance might not be significant when restrained to the audio band. USB is way above that and the cable falls in the* transmission line* category, which has much more considerations than the sole Kirchhoff's law...
   
  Note: I'm not saying a USB cable, actually, makes any significant change in sound, I never experienced that (never tried to).
   
  Edit: A FAQ on usb.org regarding cable length and similar considerations 
  "[size=10pt]The cable length was limited by a cable delay spec of 26ns to allow for reflections to settle at the transmitter before the next bit was sent"[/size]


----------



## Aerocraft67

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> Just to be clear, they do state it's .5 ohm for headphone out: http://highresolutiontechnologies.com/microstreamer#prods


 
   
  That's the output impedance. What's missing is the load into which the output power is specified. For instance, Explorer specifies 130 mW into 16Ω (which you insightfully pointed out earlier as particularly misleading since the Explorer's output impedance is so high as to render 16Ω headphone performance unsatisfactory). Dragonfly specifies 125 mW at 32Ω. iDAC is 150 mW into 15Ω. Microstreamer just specifies "up to 140 mW." 
   
  But Microstreamer does specify a voltage for the headphone out, from which we can infer the power output into different loads. I get 123 mW into 16Ω. Which is actually the lowest of the current crop of entry level DAC/amps discussed here, just shy of Explorer. But I'm just another guy blindly putting in specified values into equations he found on the internet.


----------



## markm1

Quote: 





telecaster said:


> The microstreamer has no digital out so it's no use for those who want a USB asynchronous to use with their high end system which is the primary purpose of the explorer


 
  Do you mean using it to power speakers?


----------



## FlySweep

> Originally Posted by *Carlsan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I have to say that the Explorer /Objective2 amp are quite a nice pairing. Deep bass, fine mids, nice highs, excellent open sound stage with detail.


 
   
  Agreed... I'm really enjoying this pairing as well.  Sounds terrific with the HE-400.


----------



## Maxx134

clemmaster said:


> If you want to prove your point, you shouldn't start with such assessment. The above is simply not true
> Every single peace of wire has all of the above and is subject to the laws of electromagnetism (Maxwell will be happy to hear that ).
> 
> The effect of  the impedance might not be significant when restrained to the audio band. USB is way above that and the cable falls in the *transmission line* category, which has much more considerations than the sole Kirchhoff's law...
> ...



I am not talking to Maxell on theoretical microscopic levels, I am talking real world usage to the common man.

The considerations you point refer to that can affect the "transmission" category or frequency area in USB all are negated when the information is in the digital domain. 
Similar to digital FM reception. 
Add to that a straight wire 3-6ft for conducting in a portable setup and we talking realistically no affect.

But Thank you for that link and information. 
Your point taken as correctly when I was talking about the audible band,
Yet this link you provide concerns of lengths far longer than any household application and is a concern of the actual devices used for transmitting, rather than the actual wire wich I would assume they are better off with optical transmission Instead.

Anyway you are correct about my bold accusations wich are only technically incorrect as I myself no longer deal in theory.
My statements would necessarily only apply to the practical world.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





telecaster said:


> The microstreamer has no digital out so it's no use for those who want a USB asynchronous to use with their high end system which is the primary purpose of the explorer


 
   
  Firstly, I question whether that is, in fact. the primary purpose of the Explorer - as many here indicated when the output impedance issue became apparent, many of us seem to want something we can use (trans) portably and still get excellent results. Using the digital-out negates the very reason for buying this thing - *who buys a DAC unless they want an analog signal* ? I agree that having digital-out capability gives the Explorer an advantage over it's rivals, and its nice to be able to experiment with digital-vs-analog out, but I find your statement extroadinary, to say the least. That said, I'm happy to hear from anyone else who bought the Explorer purely to use it as a 'USB transport' when there are some very good USB-SPDIF converters for around the same money. This is the gadget I'd be looking at, but the base HiFace is considerably cheaper. 
   
  http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/johnkenny/1.html
   
  http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/m2tech/hiface.html
   
  Let's try to keep this discussion to the Explorer's utility as a DAC and/or headphone amp, shall we - I'll let you get back to your Jeff Rowland monoblocks


----------



## estreeter

I could be wrong, but that looks like an awfully attractive form factor


----------



## arnaud

Quote: 





telecaster said:


> The microstreamer has no digital out so it's no use for those who want a USB asynchronous to use with their high end system which is the primary purpose of the explorer


 
   
  I think most will agree that the primary purpose of a portable DAC  is to act as a DAC, headphone out being the icing on the cake. What you are referring to is a DD converter, and am not sure what is the point of spending 300 dollars on a DD converter with only optical out, and limited to 96kHz.


----------



## Clemmaster

Quote: 





maxx134 said:


> I am not talking to Maxell on theoretical microscopic levels, I am talking real world usage to the common man.
> 
> The considerations you point refer to that can affect the "transmission" category or frequency area in USB all are negated when the information is in the digital domain.
> Similar to digital FM reception.
> ...


 
   
  Gotcha 
   
  The information is transmitted on an analog support so it is subject to alterations.
  The USB cable has a specific impedance (like RJ45, Coaxial and the likes). If the manufacturer doesn't respect that impedance (why would they? USB has error correction for the ubiquitous bulk transfer mode anyway), reflections will occur and jitter will arise.


----------



## telecaster

Who wants it? Likely every meridian customer. I can feed my digital speakers directly from a computer with only this investment and can enjoy my hd650 when abroad.
Personal if u have BA OR IEM, where is the portable advantage if u have to lug ur computer plug the power because ur battery Last only two hours?
IEM are low current headphones and are design to be used with phones and the likes. YMMV.
HIFACE, when it was out was all the rage but I didn't liked the form factor. I got myself some USBsdif and it broke two months later... HIFACE is overpriced imo


----------



## emsubs

Quote: 





teofilrocks said:


> I hope it's okay to mention this, but I received word from Meridian, through the dealer I purchased through, that they know about and are addressing the low-impedance concern. In particular:
> 
> ... a few weeks ago we made a running change in manufacture to broaden compatibility ...
> 
> I don't know the specifics of what this change has been, but I've already inquired Meridian about it.


 
   
  Any updates or details about the running change? I doubt Meridian will make a public statement.
   
  Thanks


----------



## Tyll Hertsens

Quote: 





emsubs said:


> Any updates or details about the running change? I doubt Meridian will make a public statement.
> 
> Thanks


 
  I got word that the new one is on the way to me, so I reckon it's really soon.
   
  I'm trying to get a statement from them...we'll see.


----------



## bcwang

I wonder how they can make a running change like this so quickly.  It must have took a while to fine tune the sound they were getting to where they liked it.  How much could a component value change like this affect the sound in other ways other than expected improvements in frequency response linearity?  I certainly hope they put in time to test this change and make sure it only affects things positively.


----------



## Tyll Hertsens

Quote: 





bcwang said:


> I wonder how they can make a running change like this so quickly.


 
   
  My understanding is that they became aware of the issue quite early on...before Purrin's measurements.  Feedback came from dealers who got early samples and some must have noticed.  But the production run was all set to go and the PR schedule required production to carry on. I guess they felt it wasn't a big enough issue to stop the presses.


----------



## emsubs

Quote: 





tyll hertsens said:


> I got word that the new one is on the way to me, so I reckon it's really soon.
> 
> I'm trying to get a statement from them...we'll see.


 
   
  Thank you - Look forward to your review.


----------



## estreeter

2 hours battery time on a laptop ? I'd get a new laptop.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> 2 hours battery time on a laptop ? I'd get a new laptop.


 
   
  It does seem to have a pretty big draw on the battery relative to the DF.  On my MBA at steady state idle on full battery I'd get something like 6 hours listening to music out of my headphone out.  Adding the ME in the mix and waiting 5 minutes for the battery guage to adjust it would drop to just under 4:30.  The DF by comparison knocked off about 30 minutes.


----------



## telecaster

The sub 500$ notebook will last little more than 2 hours, and little less than 3. I know laptop can last long, like the one I'm typing on, it's a X230 no Wonder you can run all day for sure.
   
  My point is if you want portable get a portable player, I fail to understand the logic here...
   
  The explorer is for those who want truly great sound and can lug a computer, so IMO they also lug full size cans because there is no contest vs small IEM.


----------



## teofilrocks

Quote: 





emsubs said:


> Any updates or details about the running change? I doubt Meridian will make a public statement.
> 
> Thanks


 
   
  I just got an email from the Director of Product Management, Meridian America this afternoon. He said improvements have been made to expand headphone compatibility and a change to the volume control, mentioning "we have had feedback that with some music players the steps were previously too course." Nothing more specific about the changes than that was stated. He did say that the updated version is now shipping and, at least the dealer that I used, would have them in their next shipment. He offered to exchange the Explorer I purchased with a current production model.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





teofilrocks said:


> I just got an email from the Director of Product Management, Meridian America this afternoon. He said improvements have been made to expand headphone compatibility and a change to the volume control, mentioning "we have had feedback that with some music players the steps were previously too course." Nothing more specific about the changes than that was stated. He did say that the updated version is now shipping and, at least the dealer that I used, would have them in their next shipment. He offered to exchange the Explorer I purchased with a current production model.


 
   
  How did you reach out to them?  I used the suport link from their main website over the weekend.


----------



## crooner

I used the customer support email messaging system on their website to no avail. They never got back to me.
  I had a question about the unit's variable volume control.


----------



## vrln

They never replied to me either. Looks like Meridian is just trying to hide everything. Even as they admit production changes still no real information given, as in output impedance number etc. Seems like all early customers bought an inferior product. This could be a case study on how not to handle things.


----------



## jkbkot

Quote: 





vrln said:


> They never replied to me either. Looks like Meridian is just trying to hide everything. Even as they admit production changes still no real information given, as in output impedance number etc. Seems like all early customers bought an inferior product. This could be a case study on how not to handle things.


 
  I'd say they are not replying to customers as a general rule of thumb  When I got my unit I asked them about proper linux configuration and never got an answer from them. Notice that they say that people should ask their sellers first.


----------



## vikingboy

As a company they dont talk much to anyone, see the Hitchhikers Meridian forum for some of the resentment it caused over product announcements and upgrades etc. 
  Having dealt with Meridian as a consumer for 15+ years now, I would say they are a reputable business and are likely to do the right thing by their customers - at some point and without much/any communication though!


----------



## teofilrocks

Yea, I emailed them last week and it took them almost a week to respond. In fact, I believe Todd at TTVJ Audio (who I bought it through) went to batt for me and that's why I got a reply when I did. I emailed Todd yesterday to tell him I hadn't heard back, and an hour later, the Meridian Director of Product Management contacted me and CC'd Todd. So what I learned from this experience is that TTVJ takes care of it's customers. Also, I don't believe this device to be "defective" or necessarily "inferior". Remember, it got some pretty glowing reviews (both inside and out of Head-Fi) from those who presumably didn't know about any impedance numbers. I just think a little less pride and a little more transparency on Meridian's part would have done a world of good in establishing a good relationship with this new (and larger) segment of customers once this concern was raised.


----------



## bobeau

I got the MicroStreamer in yesterday and have about 8 hours of headtime on it now.  
   
  It's a pretty solid upgrade over the DragonFly.  It also highlights that I am indeed having some issues with output impedance for the ME into my 334s... the bass is strong on these IEMs, and I believe the ME was reducing it enough that is produced in my mind a more balanced sound.  Even out of my MBA headphone out the bass is stronger.  The difference is the MS brings back some of that tautness I perceived from the ME, esp. rolling tips back to stock, the bass becomes even more attenuated and mids more open - this is the best I've heard these so far.  Stock tips and the ME wasn't working for me.  I'm curious to see how the MS competes against a ME with the output impedance issue corrected, I'm still somewhat inclined to believe the ME will be better.  The thing with the ME is I was getting what I perceived to be a pretty vast headspace, but who knows if that was a consequence of the alterations to the frequency response.  The downside is the sound overall was a bit lean and lacking body.
   
  I'm surprised there isn't more fuss over the MS - it does that analog but detailed thing with aplomb.  Really outstanding considering the price and form factor.  
   
  I'll be putting in a call to my ME dealer today so I can get a corrected unit.


----------



## Aerocraft67

Keep in mind that it's not unusual for manufacturers to have little to no correspondence with end-users. They rely on dealers for that. This is the traditional way of doing business. Direct-to-consumer outfits are a newer thing, and by definition have more direct correspondence with consumers, because they don't have dealers, and some are specialist boutiques with very direct exchanges with consumers. I suspect the latter model is proportionally more common in head fi, and head fiers are acclimated to that, but it's not the only legitimate way to do business.
   
  Meridian could have handled this situation better and avoided the whole thing with more awareness and due diligence up front, but it hardly amounts to gross negligence and fraud that Meridian employees aren't responding to customer e-mails and posting on enthusiast forums. That said, I'm as interested as the next early Explorer adopter to see where this goes and take steps accordingly, so it's good that we're all keeping the pressure on, as it seems to be getting favorable results. I actually had a conversation with my dealer about this early on, which ultimately ensured my satisfaction at that stage, even though the situation has continued to evolve since then, which is really all you can ask. Again, I'm looking forward to seeing this through, too, but quite enjoying the product in the meantime.


----------



## bobeau

True, but they do have a customer support form on their main website and a number to contact for support.


----------



## vrln

I have to say I´m quite a bit puzzled how much goodwill Meridian seems to get just because of their name. If there´s a contact form on your site then I feel it´s reasonable to expect a reply at least in a week or so. Otherwise they should put a notice on their site that as a small outfit and cannot reply to general inquiries. Oh and I have actually had a Meridian dealer send my questions over too, no reply either.
   
  Output impedance has nothing to do with subjective feelings - a high output impedance will seriously affect frequency response on the vast majority of portable headphones. On the other hand the Explorer was originally designed (or their engineers are incompetent, which I doubt) for larger high impedance headphones so the transparent approach would have been to clearly state that on their site from the very beginning. But what information currently is there? Close to nothing. Sorry, but I think Meridian simply didn´t do their homework properly and handled the mess in a very poor way. If their name wasn´t Meridian they´d be grilled on this even more. As for the positive reviews, I think it just shows how unprofessional and "commercial" most professional audio reviews are. Meridian declined to state any meaningful specs from the very start in vast contrast to companies like Centrance and HRT. Even most "boutique" audiophile companies offer more specifications on their products! I´m sorry, but to me that tells a lot about a company and it´s not positive. 
   
  If the revised Explorer has for example an output impedance of ~0.5 to 2, all early buyers did in fact get a clearly inferior product that has limited optimal headphone compatibility compared to the newer version. Bringing down output impedance from ~40 to something around 1 is not just a small change, it has a huge effect on the frequency response on the vast majority of portable headphones out there. I hope I don´t sound too negative though, for the record I´m still interested in the Explorer and will probably buy the revised version if it has an output impedance of less than 2, preferably 1 as I use IEMs.x
   
  Edit: The only other explanation I can think of for the high output impedance IF they meant the product for general portable headphone use is that they wanted to intentionally design a very colored/far from accurate product that turns most headphones out there into mid-oriented ones with less bass and treble. That´s entirely possible of course, but I doubt it.


----------



## netdog

I think you're overreacting.  
   
  It's an excellent product with a design flaw that they've corrected straight away.


----------



## Aerocraft67

vrln, aside from perhaps a delusional fanboy or two on this thread, I don't think anyone is letting Meridian off the hook for releasing a portable DAC/amp with unspecified yet exceptionally high output impedance that most likely adversely affects performance of portable headphones. Speaking for myself, I'm not so much bestowing goodwill towards Meridian than trying to put some of the issues here in a bigger perspective.
   
  But since you mention goodwill, I think it's also fair to acknowledge that this issue remains unresolved, by that I mean it is still evolving, and that Meridian still has a chance to make good on it. Surely this is neither the first nor last time that a company enters a new subsegment inelegantly. I'm certainly interested in pursuing any "compensation" I'm entitled to, even though I'm not severely impacted by the problem. 
   
  Fair enough that putting a contact form on a web site carries with it a pretense of getting a response, and that it's annoying not to get one. But that is unfortunately the case most of the time with most web response forms, which is why I never use them. Actually, I did use the one at EmotivaPro, suspecting that as a direct-to-consumer audio specialist that encouraged the correspondence, it would be worthwhile. Sure enough, I received no response. Please assume that the inquiry was professional, with merit, real name, clear contact info, good diction, etc. (which is another issue, not all the customer inquiries merit a response, although I'm sure yours to Meridian did, and I mean that without a hint of sarcasm). Even so, those unanswered inquiries are not necessarily without impact; clearly we're getting the sense that Meridian is doing something, even if that does not include answering the inquiries, yet the inquiries undoubtedly influenced Meridian, so they were not a waste of our time.
   
  And I do observe that head fi enthusiasts are rather spoiled with exceptionally forthcoming correspondence with guys like Jason Stoddard that in the grand scheme of things are the exception rather than the rule. And I've seen more than one Head-Fi'er not-so-subtly brag about chatting with the designer of the $1,500 tube amp they bought as if they've gained entree to an exclusive club. So, yeah, a little context. Although, owners of Meridian's flagship gear are quite likely even more insufferable, I'll grant you that, and perhaps Meridian itself has a cultural arrogance in keeping with that, and perhaps that's what's driving your disillusionment here. I'm not one of the guys that feels like he's getting a piece of erstwhile exclusive kit for $300, I just bought the best $300 DAC I could find, which I might still argue is this one, headphone output Z and whatever Meridian's infamous reputation be damned.
   
  Audio reviews are bigger issue for sure, but I think it's a stretch to condemn them categorically based on Explorer getting some positive reviews. We have posts on this already, but you could just as easily argue that the reviews reflect that the output impedance ultimately does not have a huge impact on the array of applications for which Explorer is suitable (used with line out, high-Z phones, etc.), which is not an argument I'll make here, but for putting the merit of professional audio reviews of Explorer in to some context. 
   
  And there are many audio products that do not come with a full complement of specs. Seems like most of them I want to buy have at least one critically obvious spec missing or incongruously reported. Sure, it's annoying, and should be better. But a lot of these issues aren't particularly unique to Meridian or this situation.


----------



## vrln

Point taken. We´ll see, time will tell. So far I´m not impressed, but I fully agree that this is far from a done deal - they still have the opportunity to fix things. That said, even if the headphone amp section stays as is I think the Explorer is still overall a nice product as a standalone DAC. Even if you discard the amp part entirely there aren´t many 300 dollar DACs running on the XMOS usb chip for example on the market, plus Meridian obviously has a lot of interesting proprietary DAC tech like their own oversampling algorithms etc.
   
  Plus besides those running high impedance headphones won´t have a problem with wild frequency response swings anyway. Some of the professional reviews (like on computer audiophile) have clearly used those for testing the amp part and that so fully explains why they didn´t notice anything wrong. I´d guess the majority of reviews have done something similar, but personally I´m a bit of an audio objectivist so I feel professional reviews should almost always take into account objective measurements and test the product with as varied gear as possible.


----------



## MoonUnit

Quote: 





vrln said:


> Point taken. We´ll see, time will tell. So far I´m not impressed, but I fully agree that this is far from a done deal - they still have the opportunity to fix things. That said, even if the headphone amp section stays as is I think the Explorer is still overall a nice product as a standalone DAC. Even if you discard the amp part entirely there aren´t many 300 dollar DACs running on the XMOS usb chip for example on the market, plus Meridian obviously has a lot of interesting proprietary DAC tech like their own oversampling algorithms etc.
> 
> Plus besides those running high impedance headphones won´t have a problem with wild frequency response swings anyway. Some of the professional reviews (like on computer audiophile) have clearly used those for testing the amp part and that so fully explains why they didn´t notice anything wrong. I´d guess the majority of reviews have done something similar, but personally I´m a bit of an audio objectivist so I feel professional reviews should almost always take into account objective measurements and test the product with as varied gear as possible.


 
   
  This is almost exactly how I feel too. I think they've mismanaged their communication on this -- there should have been some sort of public statement by now. Talking to influential industry insiders and replying to some inquiries but not others is not a middle ground... it's almost worse than saying nothing at all because it leaves customers feeling like some people are getting information that they're not.
   
  That said, it sounds really sweet as a DAC and it deserves wider exposure for that.


----------



## crooner

I listened to my ME connected to my main audio rig (conventional stereo with speakers), and it sounds great, no doubt about it.
  
 However, I was surprised to learn the headphone jack has left and right inverted. I double checked all connections on my rig to make sure and the inversion was happening at the ME.  No big deal for hi-fi use but perhaps not so good for headphone listening for obvious reasons...


----------



## telecaster

Left and right inverted? Pretty weird, mine is not inverted. Must be software. Appart from the one or two bashers, the explorer is a great product that should be enjoyed as it should be.


----------



## crooner

Maybe it's the Audioquest cable that's got the color coding wrong. I do recall running the Chesky Stereo Image test on the Dragonfly with the same Audioquest Golden Gate interconnects and the left and right channels reproduced correctly.
   
  Anywho...The Dragonfly has been sold and I will use the ME as my sole DAC.


----------



## Fickle-Friend

Hi can anyone please recommend a USB cable upgrade for this thanks.


----------



## citraian

Quote: 





fickle-friend said:


> Hi can anyone please recommend a USB cable upgrade for this thanks.


 
  I would recommend the Wireworld Ultraviolet. It's pretty cheap and it provides some pretty good improvements.


----------



## Poimandres

The ultraviolet is definitely a nice cable.


----------



## teofilrocks

Quote: 





poimandres said:


> The ultraviolet is definitely a nice cable.


 
   
  How about compared to something like the Audioquest Forest or Cinnamon?


----------



## Poimandres

I don't have those cables.  I do have the dragontail and I don't really care for it.


----------



## Fickle-Friend

Quote: 





citraian said:


> I would recommend the Wireworld Ultraviolet. It's pretty cheap and it provides some pretty good improvements.


 
  Thank you kind sir.


----------



## Fickle-Friend

Should I wait for a fix for this or go with a HRT Streamer DAC?


----------



## meat01

It depends on what type of headphones you are using to drive it with and if you are going to sell it.
   
   
  Quote: 





> I would recommend the Wireworld Ultraviolet. It's pretty cheap and it provides some pretty good improvements.


 
   
  $50 for a USB cable is not really cheap and it doesn't really improve a digital signal


----------



## teofilrocks

Quote: 





fickle-friend said:


> Should I wait for a fix for this or go with a HRT Streamer DAC?


 
   
  From my understanding after talking to Meridian, the updated versions are already being shipped out to suppliers. So there shouldn't be much waiting involved.


----------



## Carlsan

I will be curious as to how the updated version sounds.
  Hopefully somebody here will get one of the newer versions and give us impressions.


----------



## Burju

teofilrocks said:


> From my understanding after talking to Meridian, the updated versions are already being shipped out to suppliers. So there shouldn't be much waiting involved.




Couple of questions:
1. Current owner: Should we contact directly to Meridian or through our dealer?
2. After the dealer redirected our concerns up to Meridian, what next steps would be-knowing that new version had arrived at dealers already?
 Some members had shown their concerns of no update from Meridian after they contacted Meridian a week or 2 weeks ago.
3. Would the dealer replace our concerned product or would Meridian? Again knowing new version had shipped out to dealers.

Lol.....questions, questions and more questions.
Cheers


----------



## teofilrocks

Quote: 





burju said:


> Couple of questions:
> 1. Current owner: Should we contact directly to Meridian or through our dealer?
> 2. After the dealer redirected our concerns up to Meridian, what next steps would be-knowing that new version had arrived at dealers already?
> Some members had shown their concerns of no update from Meridian after they contacted Meridian a week or 2 weeks ago.
> 3. Would the dealer replace our concerned product or would Meridian? Again knowing new version had shipped out to dealers.


 
   
  I can only tell you my path. I contacted my dealer first. I get the impression Meridian is used to working through dealers more than directly with customers. I don't know whether they've set up any exchange agreement with dealers, but the quickest way to find out what your next step should be would be by contacting the dealer you bought it from. This has been my experience. If your dealer says to contact Meridian directly, as did mine, then you know.


----------



## GoSUV

Quote: 





vrln said:


> Plus besides those running high impedance headphones won´t have a problem with wild frequency response swings anyway. Some of the professional reviews (like on computer audiophile) have clearly used those for testing the amp part and that so fully explains why they didn´t notice anything wrong. I´d guess the majority of reviews have done something similar, but personally I´m a bit of an audio objectivist so I feel professional reviews should almost always take into account objective measurements and test the product with as varied gear as possible.


 
   
  This is a very good point. Since the ME is designed for portable use (otherwise it wouldn't need to draw from USB power but rather gets its juice from the wall), therefore any competent reviewer should test it using portable headphones. One may argue that you'd most likely be using a laptop anyway so what's an extra few hundred grams of a full-size headphone - but I can tell you, I intend to use one of these things on international flights, and given the current situations of airlines trying to nickel and dime you on everything, minimizing the size and weight of baggage you carry into the cabin will always be a huge advantage. Plus the superior noise isolation characteristics of a pair of IEM's is always going to provide more musical enjoyment over a pair of closed full-size headphones in a noisy environment like a plane.


----------



## Burju

I can only tell you my path. I contacted my dealer first. I get the impression Meridian is used to working through dealers more than directly with customers. I don't know whether they've set up any exchange agreement with dealers, but the quickest way to find out what your next step should be would be by contacting the dealer you bought it from. This has been my experience. If your dealer says to contact Meridian directly, as did mine, then you know.

Thank you, I really appreciate you for the help.
My concern has been elevated to Ron and Ken at Meridian. We will see.

Cheers


----------



## vikingboy

I spoke to my dealer this afternoon who checked in with Meridian. I was advised to contact them through the web site (which directs to an email address I understand but I havent done it yet), Meridian are expecting my mail and have a unit held back for me. 
  Doesnt seem like a big deal - wonder if they will ship me the new one before I ship the "old" one back so I can side by side demo them with my phones?
   
  Will update as things progress....


----------



## feverfive

Quote: 





vikingboy said:


> I spoke to my dealer this afternoon who checked in with Meridian. I was advised to contact them through the web site (which directs to an email address I understand but I havent done it yet), Meridian are expecting my mail and have a unit held back for me.
> Doesnt seem like a big deal - wonder if they will ship me the new one before I ship the "old" one back so I can side by side demo them with my phones?
> 
> Will update as things progress....


 

 I purchased from TTVJ, but opted to attempt direct contact w/ Meridian via their web support form.  I've been thinking about this the past few days, and while I like the product as-is for use at home w/ fullsize cans, my intent when I purchased was for use w/ IEMs when I travel (which I do A LOT) with my rMBP (use on the airplane & in the hotel).  I just don't want to travel with fullsize cans...and I like my IEMs...I don't want to have to buy new ones just to get good SQ out of the ME.  I ordered from TTVJ 2/17/13; it was backordered & didn't ship to me until 2/25/13, so I'm w/in my return window. But honestly, I don't want to return this...as I said, I like this product, but I just want to use it with my current gear, for the originally intended purpose.  To be clear, I'm not mad, nor do I feel entitled.  I just want to see whether Meridian will step to the plate.


----------



## teofilrocks

I'm in the process of having mine exchanged, just waiting for further direction. The Meridian director did mention a couple things to me. One, that the output impedance has been reduced to 5 ohms and, two, that their desire has been not to be a "specification driven" product line, but to be listened to as the sum of its parts. Outside of the initial output impedance, I'd say it's got some pretty good parts.


----------



## Tyll Hertsens

I have received the revised version and the output impedance is indeed 5 Ohm.  
   
  Ken Forsythe of Meridian has provided me with a statement which includes:
   
  "_If any customers feel that their experience may have been affected by the headphones they are using with their Explorer then they should contact Meridian at explorer@meridian.co.uk telling us their name and shipping address; where they bought their Explorer, its serial number, how they use it (which outputs, OS, etc.) and the headphones models they enjoy, and we will get right back to them. Meridian is always happy to engage with enthusiastic customers."_
   
  The new unit does sound better to me.  Full story here: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/meridian-explorer-case-study-effects-output-impedance


----------



## teofilrocks

Thank you Tyll for the update article, measurements, and impressions.

I have the first-run Explorer and I like it. The one odd thing I noticed was that it seems like my 35-ohm HE-400s require as much or more power to reach the same volume as my 600-ohm Beyers with the ME. That's the opposite of what happens when using my O2 or even straight out of my Mac. But I don't see how damping factor would account for that..


----------



## purrin

Good news. Thanks Tyll for following up on this - and kudos to Meridian for fixing the issue.


----------



## vrln

Nice to see Meridian improve the design. Much better now, but it still needs to be said the Explorer remains not an optimal choice for most IEM users. An output impedance of 5 still not good enough; for example iPhone 4S (~1ohm) sounds clearly better with IEMs than the iPod Classic (~5ohms) with 16 ohm armatures with a wildly swinging impedance curve. IEM users are still better served by other products, but Meridian has increased compatibility a lot and kudos for that!
   
  Tyll: Thanks for the great article. I have a technical question: if a low-ohm output amplifier shorts (and most likely breaks), will it damage connected headphones too or is the damage restricted to the amplifier?


----------



## telecaster

Quote: 





tyll hertsens said:


> I have received the revised version and the output impedance is indeed 5 Ohm.
> 
> Ken Forsythe of Meridian has provided me with a statement which includes:
> 
> ...


 
  Great article Tyll, you're the man! It sure shows how Professional and mature a good reviewer should be.
   
  I'll keep my high output explorer as it sounds good to me ^^


----------



## HiFiGuy528

I like how my old ME sound, but I am interested in hearing the revised version. I sent them an email asking for the revised version. Hope they will take care of me.


----------



## Tyll Hertsens

Quote: 





vrln said:


> An output impedance of 5 still not good enough
> 
> Tyll: Thanks for the great article. I have a technical question: if a low-ohm output amplifier shorts (and most likely breaks), will it damage connected headphones too or is the damage restricted to the amplifier?


 
   
  I agree that I'd like to see portable devices with < or = 2 Ohm output impedance.
   
  Depends on what gets damaged in the amp.  You might get lucky and blow the mains fuse, but more likely you pop a transistor in one side and it rails to the other...which would blow up your cans.  Anyway, it's a good idea for manufacturers to build in a little protection with a bit of output impedance. 
   
  The alternative is to have some kind of over-current protection circuit, but that will make the amp a bit more expensive, and you run the risk of making not sound as good.


----------



## Deni5

First I want to say thanks to Purrin for his honest review and findings. Learned a lot from it.
   
  Also thanks to Tyll for the review on the old and new ME. Very metodical, informative and awesome information to have in general when dealing with amps.
  
  Still I wonder a little - supposedly Meridian knew about it and was going to make necessary changes. Why hasn't an official statement come out on the homepage (can't find one). One logical explanation to me would be that if they made it then people will wonder what version they got as they seem to be identical (although you could probably see the difference in the serial number).
   
  I hope that information how to tell them apart comes out otherwise how would one know which one you have bought, some will probably be sold/bought second hand.
   
  Also I think it would be appreciative to inform all those that have bought the older ME by email stating about what the change is about or that a change has been made (but this could also be very troublesome as not everyone could follow the technicalities) and about a possibility to exchange.
   
  Anyway, thanks to Meridian for dealing with the impedance issue.


----------



## estreeter

'5' works for me - 32-ohm cans and all. All up, I'd say the consumer is the winner with so many good - and relatively inexpensive - choices out there. It's just as shame that it had to wait until the economy turned to shinola and many of us have more important real-world concerns than which ~$400 DAC to buy - to those without such concerns, I say buy one of everything.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

It would be hard for someone to know when buying used other than the serial and guessing which version.


----------



## purrin

With a cheap DMM and a pair of alligator clips from Rat Shack, it's not difficult to do the measurement. Maybe Tyll can write an easy guide on how to do this?


----------



## crooner

Ok. I hope Meridian takes care of me. Bought the unit from Todd two weeks ago. Asked Todd via email if my unit was the revised version. Never got a reply.


----------



## netdog

I had written to Meridian support last week and heard back this morning.  They said that they are collating information and that it will take some time for them to catch up, and they asked for my patience while assuring me that they will get back to me about this.
   
  It sounded to me as if they are dealing with it and will keep customers happy.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Quote: 





netdog said:


> I had written to Meridian support last week and heard back this morning.  They said that they are collating information and that it will take some time for them to catch up, and they asked for my patience while assuring me that they will get back to me about this.
> 
> It sounded to me as if they are dealing with it and will keep customers happy.


 
   
  That's good to know.  I have not heard back yet, but it's less than 24 hrs.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Quote: 





purrin said:


> With a cheap DMM and a pair of alligator clips from Rat Shack, it's not difficult to do the measurement. Maybe Tyll can write an easy guide on how to do this?


 
   
  I have a cheapo DMM.  How do you take the ME apart?


----------



## Tyll Hertsens

Quote: 





hifiguy528 said:


> I have a cheapo DMM.  How do you take the ME apart?


 
  You don't need to take it apart. You have to measure the output signal with no load, then put a load (let's say 50 Ohms) on the output and measure the drop in voltage. then you have to do a little math to calculate the output impedance. Or you can go to this page and plug in the numbers and it will calculate it for you.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





hifiguy528 said:


> That's good to know.  I have not heard back yet, but it's less than 24 hrs.


 
   
  I've written twice - first about 10 days ago, then again just about 24 hours.  No response yet.


----------



## jkbkot

I contacted my dealer, Music Matters via Amazon, they replied in about a day that they would change my Explorer for a new one (they didn't want me to contact Meridian myself, they were just interested in knowing what headphones I tried). I don't even expect a reply from Meridian to my configuration-related question - it's been perhaps almost a month since I asked them.


----------



## netdog

I should add that I am in the UK.  Customer support in the USA or elsewhere may be on a different schedule or have a different protocol set up to deal with this.
   
  I just heard from them again and will apparently hear something on Monday.


----------



## PhilW

I would suggest that for those who purchased in the UK deal directly with the retailer they purchased from. I'm not sure if any uk dealers have the revised units yet.




burju said:


> Couple of questions:
> 1. Current owner: Should we contact directly to Meridian or through our dealer?
> 2. After the dealer redirected our concerns up to Meridian, what next steps would be-knowing that new version had arrived at dealers already?
> Some members had shown their concerns of no update from Meridian after they contacted Meridian a week or 2 weeks ago.
> ...


----------



## ysyung

*I got an official response from Meridian UK within 1 day for exchange arrangement. Suggesting to contact with Meridian at explorer@meridian.co.uk. And they provide your name, country, and where you bought the Explorer with serial number.*


----------



## feverfive

Quote: 





ysyung said:


> *I got an official response from Meridian UK within 1 day for exchange arrangement. Suggesting to contact with Meridian at explorer@meridian.co.uk. And they provide your name, country, and where you bought the Explorer with serial number.*


 

 I used that email address last night (about 30 hours ago) & provided all of that information as well as describing how I use the ME, and all my associated gear.  I haven't heard back yet, but then I was expecting it to take a few days to get a response.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

bobeau said:


> I've written twice - first about 10 days ago, then again just about 24 hours.  No response yet.




Well, that's not good. Post your experience on Innerfidelity like Tyll said.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





hifiguy528 said:


> Well, that's not good. Post your experience on Innerfidelity like Tyll said.


 
   
  Thanks for the suggestion.  It's now been 48 hours and no response.  I get that they might be a bit snowed under for this issue but some sort of response would be nice.


----------



## vikingboy

i got a mail back yesterday from Meridian in the Uk which said.....
   
  "
Thank you for your email, we're currently finalising theExplorer exchange process, I'll be in contact on Monday the 25th with further details.

Sorry for any inconvenience this may've caused, I appreciate your patience.

Regards

Chris
"
   
They are moving along.....so long as its taken care of I'm happy.


----------



## netdog

Yes, that's exactly what my second email from them said.


----------



## Synthax

Will Explorer make better sound also with mp3/youtube/vimeo/spotify songs played at my MacBook Air? Or it is worth to use only with FLAC/ALAC?


----------



## vrln

It should make everything sound better, but more accurate gear will also make small cracks, pops, low bitrate etc for example in Youtube videos more apparent.


----------



## netdog

It makes most anything I play on my Mac Mini sound better, but I don't really play any low bit-rate material.


----------



## Radio_head

Just got an email from Meridian today (Ron Lennox, the Regional Sales Manager), they're starting to ship replacements, for the next few weeks.
   
  The amazing thing is they're shipping the replacements... without requiring the return first.  That's contrary to RMA 101 (you never know if the customer will return the product, so no replacement/credit until goods are returned) - this indicates a _lot _of trust on their part for the customer.  As unhappy as I was with the (initial) product itself I am much, much happier with this element of their customer service.  Shipping label of course provided for return as well. Bravo.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





radio_head said:


> Just got an email from Meridian today (Ron Lennox, the Regional Sales Manager), they're starting to ship replacements, for the next few weeks.


 
   
  Did you use the explorer@meridian.co.uk email?  I've tried 3 times in 12 days now... no response.  Do you have a direct one to Ron?


----------



## HiFiGuy528

radio_head said:


> Just got an email from Meridian today (Ron Lennox, the Regional Sales Manager), they're starting to ship replacements, for the next few weeks.
> 
> The amazing thing is they're shipping the replacements... without requiring the return first.  That's contrary to RMA 101 (you never know if the customer will return the product, so no replacement/credit until goods are returned) - this indicates a _lot _of trust on their part for the customer.  As unhappy as I was with the (initial) product itself I am much, much happier with this element of their customer service.  Shipping label of course provided for return as well. Bravo.




That's great news! Thanks for the update.


----------



## Aerocraft67

Quote: 





radio_head said:


> The amazing thing is they're shipping the replacements... without requiring the return first.  That's contrary to RMA 101 (you never know if the customer will return the product, so no replacement/credit until goods are returned) - this indicates a _lot _of trust on their part for the customer.  As unhappy as I was with the (initial) product itself I am much, much happier with this element of their customer service.  Shipping label of course provided for return as well. Bravo.


 
   
  This would seem to indicate that the higher priority for Meridian is to establish goodwill with customers than to ensure that it salvages the most value out of the product line by clearing the market of the flawed original version. Then again, it may just be easier to ship them all out with some reasonable proof of purchase rather than administrate the inbound inventory of all the one-for-one exchanges. Sounds like many of us might just get a new Explorer from Meridian rather than returned e-mails.
   
  I suspect the yield on returns will be really high—once everyone satisfies their curiosity about the difference in sound between the two versions. It would be so obviously shady for someone to take the new one in exchange for the old one then put the old one up for sale that it seems pretty unlikely. Not that Meridian would take the trouble to pursue any action, although I suppose it could. Quick side note on that, I know Radio_head had one up for sale, not at all suggesting anything nefarious there (clearly he was forthright about his impressions and intentions). Also, a customer that just kept both versions wouldn't do a ton of damage beyond his own ethical principles, either, since both devices would be off the market.
   
  Point is, this approach just might be optimal for everyone.


----------



## Radio_head

I put mine up for sale after contacting them (over a week ago) but before hearing back, when I figured they were just unresponsive to the situation.  In fact, I wouldn't have sent it in on my own as I thought the issues were larger than just output impedance - but I was contacted out of the blue that my replacement had_ been sent_.
   
The person I sold to can attest that I PM'ed him with this bit of news before I posted about it and refunded his money since I am now keeping the unit until the replacement arrives to  be able to send it back.


----------



## Tyll Hertsens

This appears to be an excellent turn of events.  I hope people will continue to post what's going on with there situation.  If enough positive comments get made I will update my article with a note about Meridian's response.


----------



## bobeau

Alright, now I have a response from a US regional rep.  It's the standing 2-3 week time to handle the issue.  Cool 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I've been exclusively using the MicroStreamer for the past week or two, will be interesting to run them against each other.


----------



## FlySweep

My experience has been similar to many.  I bought the Meridian from TTVJ (who's service is excellent).  I emailed them about two weeks ago about the OI issue.  Todd emailed me their 'press release' on the issue & directed me to email Meridian.  I did so & waited a week for a response from Meridian.  Receiving none, I emailed Todd again to let him know that Meridian hadn't responded.  Almost immediately, he contacted Meridian on my behalf & within an hour, I received an email from a US Meridian rep (Ron Lennox).
   
  Ron & I exchanged a couple of emails & he informed me that they will be sending a replacement.  Another Meridian rep emailed me a couple of days after to confirm, as well.  Since that follow up email by Todd to Meridian, their communication has been excellent.  I'm in the US and got the same info bobeau posted above (2-3 weeks to get a replacement).


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Sounds like they are moving things along to take care of customers. Thumbs up for Meridian.


----------



## Burju

flysweep said:


> My experience has been similar to many.  I bought the Meridian from TTVJ (who's service is excellent).  I emailed them about two weeks ago about the OI issue.  Todd emailed me their 'press release' on the issue & directed me to email Meridian.  I did so & waited a week for a response from Meridian.  Receiving none, I emailed Todd again to let him know that Meridian hadn't responded.  Almost immediately, he contacted Meridian on my behalf & within an hour, I received an email from a US Meridian rep (Ron Lennox).
> 
> Ron & I exchanged a couple of emails & he informed me that they will be sending a replacement.  Another Meridian rep emailed me a couple of days after to confirm, as well.  Since that follow up email by Todd to Meridian, their communication has been excellent.  I'm in the US and got the same info bobeau posted above (2-3 weeks to get a replacement).



Todd is 1st Class.


----------



## feverfive

^^Todd is most definitely first class...
   
  I got a response from Ron Lennox as well yesterday.  Likewise, he stated that they'll be shipping new units next week, and he made it clear it might take 2-3 weeks to get my replacement.  This will be BY FAR the easiest replacement scenario I've ever had if it actually goes down as described.  Meridian might have just earned a customer for their higher-end gear when I go on my spree later this year, jumping back into the audio hobby with both feet after a few years hiatus.


----------



## FlySweep

I've been listening with the Explorer for much of today: Explorer (DAC) --> Objective 2 --> HE-400.  The sound and synergy in this little rig is _terrific_.  I'm excited to see what the (revised) Meridian Explorer's headphone out will bring as far as performance.  I think someone mentioned the volume increase should be smoother in the revision (not confirmed by Meridian).  I typically prefer to have my DACs as uncolored as possible.. but the ME's DAC is colored in quite an 'artful' manner.. and the sound isn't saturated so much as to fatigue or annoy during long term listening.  Evaluating the Explorer as a (non-neutral) DAC (and USB-to-optical converter), this little device is a winner in my book.


----------



## teofilrocks

flysweep said:


> I think someone mentioned the volume increase should be smoother in the revision (not confirmed by Meridian).




That was me and the info was directly from Ken Forsythe of Meridian in an email he sent to me. He said the second running change was to lessen the courseness of the volume control.

I've got the same ME/O2/HE400 setup. Quite powerful isn't it? Although the Magni looks prettier, so that's why I want to swap them.


----------



## zilch0md

*If anyone's is suffering a noise problem with a USB-powered DAC, here's a micro-review I posted to a DACport thread, on a $60 solution for clean 5V power (for loads up to 2 Amps), that's still "transportable" without reliance on AC power - a method that receives power exclusively from an external Lithium-ion pack, receiving only data from the laptop: *
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/615548/do-the-dacport-and-the-dacport-lx-really-sound-different/30#post_9292387
   
   

   
  Mike


----------



## Burju

zilch0md said:


> *If anyone's is suffering a noise problem with a USB-powered DAC, here's a micro-review I posted to a DACport thread, on a $60 solution for clean 5V power (for loads up to 2 Amps), that's still "transportable" without reliance on AC power - a method that receives power exclusively from an external Lithium-ion pack, receiving only data from the laptop: *
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/615548/do-the-dacport-and-the-dacport-lx-really-sound-different/30#post_9292387
> 
> ...



Mike,
Perfectionist as always, excellent.


----------



## estreeter

I hope this doesnt turn out like the ZO2 saga .....


----------



## zilch0md

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> I hope this doesnt turn out like the ZO2 saga .....


 
   
  Do tell - how did that story go (or would you rather not summarize it here)?


----------



## estreeter

You've been here long enough to know exactly how it went, and it's all summarised in one of the longest threads on Head-Fi.    Enjoy.


----------



## markm1

I'm still shopping around for my first DAC to go w/ my Asgard....
   
  looking at:
   

 Bifrost or Modi
 Hrt Streamer
 Dragonfly
 maybe the Explorer
   
  Looking forward to going to a Meet in May to check out some gear....
   
  seems most of you you are using as intended as a portable w/ laptops and such.
   
  Anyone using it as their primary home set up?


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





flysweep said:


> I've been listening with the Explorer for much of today: Explorer (DAC) --> Objective 2 --> HE-400.  The sound and synergy in this little rig is _terrific_.  I'm excited to see what the (revised) Meridian Explorer's headphone out will bring as far as performance.  I think someone mentioned the volume increase should be smoother in the revision (not confirmed by Meridian).  I typically prefer to have my DACs as uncolored as possible.. but *the ME's DAC is colored in quite an 'artful' manner*.. and the sound isn't saturated so much as to fatigue or annoy during long term listening.  Evaluating the Explorer as a (non-neutral) DAC (and USB-to-optical converter), this little device is a winner in my book.


 
   
  I've tried a few DACs and DAC/amps that use the same all-in-one BB DA chip and that is a very good description of how they sound.


----------



## teofilrocks

markm1 said:


> Anyone using it as their primary home set up?



Yup, I am. Using it for both my headphone listening and have a Lepai 2020A+ connected to the fixed line-out powering my Klipsch bookshelf speakers.


----------



## jkbkot

I contacted Meridian about the exchange on Friday, they replied today that I should fill in a form, send it to them together with the Explorer and once they have it they'll ship a replacement to me within 1-2 days.


----------



## aayler

I received the same message but I'm unsure about how I feel about paying postage for this to return to the UK ...
   
  For instance, the Amazon model of free shipping if the issue is in their error, is costumer-friendly ...


----------



## Painterspal

Quote: 





markm1 said:


> I'm still shopping around for my first DAC to go w/ my Asgard....
> 
> looking at:
> 
> ...


 

 I am. I described it in some detail here.


----------



## jkbkot

Well, it's not ideal but I sent it already. It cost me a bit less than 10 EUR from Ireland, registered and with declared value 300 EUR. It's not that bad given the price of the Explorer I think.
   
  I really want to have the improved version even though I may decide it's an overkill for me and I'd maybe sell it eventually. To my ears and in my simple setup, this old version sounds maybe even worse than the built-in soundcard of my laptop (Thinkpad T530).


----------



## zilch0md

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> You've been here long enough to know exactly how it went, and it's all summarised in one of the longest threads on Head-Fi.    Enjoy.


 
   
  Well, I may have been here long enough, but I missed it (the "ZO2 saga"), somehow.  I wasn't being coy.  I can research it on my own, though.  
   
  Thanks,
   
  Mike


----------



## estreeter

For those who don't want to wade through an incredibly long thread, here is a summary: Digizoid shipped a wildly anticipated product before it was ready, then a '.1' version which also had problems, followed by the 'ZO2.2' - last I heard, the .2 version was working properly. My* ZO2.0* died after about a months usage (refused to charge), I threw it in the bin and havent bothered returning to the thread - or any Digizoid product - since. IMO, the sticker price on the ZO2 really was too good to be true - they just werent able to factor any quality control in at that price.
   
  Obviously, one would expect a lot more from Meridian, but then I would have expected a company with their engineering background to grasp the importance of an amp's output impedance to the headphone market - clearly, I was wrong.


----------



## Armaegis

I think they're up to the 2.3 now.


----------



## zilch0md

Thanks for the summary, estreeter.
   
  Saved me hunting it up.
   
  Mike


----------



## wfranklin

Yes.  Using as primary for home as well as portable at work.  Laptop is the source in both cases.
   
  Quote: 





markm1 said:


> I'm still shopping around for my first DAC to go w/ my Asgard....
> 
> looking at:
> 
> ...


----------



## markm1

Quote: 





wfranklin said:


> Yes.  Using as primary for home as well as portable at work.  Laptop is the source in both cases.


 
Thanks to everyone for the replies. Sounds like a very nice addition to your rig. The ability to listen at home and at work must be a big plus.
   
Here's my quandary...
   
Since I'm shopping for my first DAC, and have never heard my HPs through a DAC, I don't have a basis for comparison.
   
I'm able to stream and listen to my PC music files from an Onkyo receiver through my home wifi network.I'm in the process of upgrading my stereo and I'm even looking at Sonos to have different wireless speaker zones. But, that's a different story....
   
Anyway, since I've not purchased a DAC yet, I'm just curious how much better listening to my PC digital music files or streaming will sounds from a PC w/ a decent dedicated DAC vs from my Onkyo receiver with the built in Onkyo receiver DAC. Since I don't have a dedicated external DAC yet, I'm listening primarily to my cell phone on the go, and though the receiver for dedicated listening rather that my PC as the Onkyo sounds way better than the soundcard in my PC.
   
If I listen to a CD, I have two choices-HP jack from my my dedicated CD player or from the receiver. The CD player HP jack def sounds better than through the HP jack on my receiver. But, the receiver doesn't sound horrible. I would say that the Onkyo receiver sounds decent, but not 'out of this world' good.
   
Is it safe to assume that a dedicated decent DAC connected to a PC will improve the SQ from a typical stereo receiver that can access digital music files and and streaming services?
   
   
Hopefully, I'll be able to check out a few DACS in upcoming meet in my area next month.


----------



## estreeter

markm1, that is almost impossible to answer, but it's *generally* held that the headphone amp in most dedicated headamps (as in the Explorer) is going to be better than the headphone stage in a cheaper receiver or integrated amp. Whether the DAC is superior is tougher - many will trot out lines like '_Hey, that's a $5 chip in your $400 receiver - of course a dedicated DAC will be better !'_, but ultimately *you are the only one who can answer that question*. I suggest you take advantage of any trial period you can get on the Explorer or any other DAC and find out for yourself/ 
   
  Just be aware that a lot of 'accepted wisdom' is repeated _ad nauseam_ on forums, but the old mantra of 'audition,audition,audition' has been accepted for decades. Does my own 'reasonably priced DAC' sound better than my old HT receiver : absolutely. Does that mean I can make a blanket recommendation ? Absolutely not.


----------



## markm1

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> markm1, that is almost impossible to answer, but it's *generally* held that the headphone amp in most dedicated headamps (as in the Explorer) is going to be better than the headphone stage in a cheaper receiver or integrated amp. Whether the DAC is superior is tougher - many will trot out lines like '_Hey, that's a $5 chip in your $400 receiver - of course a dedicated DAC will be better !'_, but ultimately *you are the only one who can answer that question*. I suggest you take advantage of any trial period you can get on the Explorer or any other DAC and find out for yourself/
> 
> Just be aware that a lot of 'accepted wisdom' is repeated _ad nauseam_ on forums, but the old mantra of 'audition,audition,audition' has been accepted for decades. Does my own 'reasonably priced DAC' sound better than my old HT receiver : absolutely. Does that mean I can make a blanket recommendation ? Absolutely not.


 
   I get that it's hard to answer given all the variables. I can't find much even from Onkyo about the receiver DAC. My guess is it's pretty mediocre. And, I've got a Asgard 2 on back order, so I've got the amp variable covered for the moment.
   
  When thinking about DACS, if I went with straight USB, I would be limited to my PC. I wouldn't be able to use with my stereo rig at all. I could go w/ something like the Biforst w/ USB and SPDIF, but I'm not sure it will make a big difference....just not sure....I'm also thinking about adding Sonos. If I do that, I believe I would utilize the circuitry in a Sonos connect device(router-Sonos connect-receiver). And, I could throw a DAC into that equation.
   
  so I think I'll sit on it for a while and see how things sound w/ the upgrades I'm contemplating
   
  Thanks.
  Mark


----------



## DoomForce

Huge props to Meridian for how they handled this situation. I'm impressed, this is definitely the shows of a gutsy company.
   
  I'm thinking of buying the explorer to go with the Ultrasone Ed-8 (*30 Ohm *impedance). Would you consider it a decent match?
   
  Also, I was thinking if it would be possible to run the ME through a high end Android phone device. Would you deem it possible, and through which procedure? There's two contradicting posts earlier in the thread, someone mentioning it is not possibly due to the low voltage of the USB output on the Android phone, someone else notifying it was possibly simply through using a market app. Which one is true?


----------



## HiFiGuy528

anyone here received their replacement?


----------



## teofilrocks

Quote: 





hifiguy528 said:


> anyone here received their replacement?


 
   
  Nothing yet. It's been two weeks since I was asked for my information from their support dept. Haven't heard anything since.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





doomforce said:


> I'm thinking of buying the explorer to go with the Ultrasone Ed-8 (*30 Ohm *impedance). Would you consider it a decent match?


 
   
  From a purely spec standpoint based on general wisdom (8x multiplier output impedance vs. headphone impedance) around these parts, you would generally want something at 40 ohms or greater.
   
  I have a couple Ed-8s and will have a revised ME coming in soon... if you want to wait I'll do a comparison between it, the dragonfly, and the microstreamer.


----------



## Satir

n/a


----------



## DoomForce

Quote:
   


bobeau said:


> From a purely spec standpoint based on general wisdom (8x multiplier output impedance vs. headphone impedance) around these parts, you would generally want something at 40 ohms or greater.
> 
> I have a couple Ed-8s and will have a revised ME coming in soon... if you want to wait I'll do a comparison between it, the dragonfly, and the microstreamer.


 
   
  Fantastic, bobeau. I would love to wait a few days and see what you think. It would help me, and I'm sure others too, tremendously.
   
_Pardon the repeat guys _-- has there been anyone able to make the Meridian Explorer *work with an Android phone?*


----------



## telecaster

edit


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





satir said:


> I've been using revised ME since Thursday. Preparing to move so have main audio system packed away. Going from $25K+ main system to very modest headphone system: Thinkpad (dBpoweramp/JRiver 18) > ME (stock USB cable) > Sennheiser HD600 (stock headphone cable) and not much of a step down from my main system. HDTrack's Ellington Afro Bossa 192/24 download nice but have more than a few regular old 44.1/16 ripped files with SQ nearly as satisfying through the ME.


 
   
  OK - I'll bite - what do you have in the '25K main system' that you can replace with less than 3K (including the Thinkpad) worth of readily available electronics  ? I'm a big fan of the the VFM equation offered by headphones, but you must be missing the sheer _scale_ of a speaker rig ?


----------



## Satir

n/a


----------



## estreeter

OK - you've got more in your power conditioner alone than many of us have in our entire rig - I can see how easy it would be to spend 25K there. My plan is to spend 10K next year and walk away - yeah, we all know how that goes, but it gives me a line in the sand. Biggest danger is the exponential rate at which new DACs seem to appear on the horizon, but that is unlikely to slow down anytime soon.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> OK - you've got more in your power conditioner alone than many of us have in our entire rig - I can see how easy it would be to spend 25K there. My plan is to spend 10K next year and walk away - yeah, we all know how that goes, but it gives me a line in the sand. Biggest danger is the exponential rate at which new DACs seem to appear on the horizon, but that is unlikely to slow down anytime soon.


 
   
  I run Maggie MMGs into an old Onkyo 805 (those things were quite overbuilt, with a pretty decent Wolfson DAC and push alot of clean power at 4 ohms).  I don't have the ideal room situation by far, but I take care to give them enough space (about 36" from the rear wall), not too close to corners, use Audessey from the 805 to EQ to room, then bump the sub bass 3 db.  Total = $1k and I'm consistently amazed.


----------



## Satir

n/a


----------



## estreeter

Let me guess - you have the good fortune to be born in the CONUS, right ? Gotta love the guys who wont even ship their gear - quite a few on AK drive for hours to find that a component isn't quite as '8/9' as the seller had led them to believe - _caveat emptor_, I guess. Sounds like you've been lucky - more power to you, indeed.


----------



## Satir (Sep 14, 2017)

n/a


----------



## DoomForce

Quick question guys,

How competent would you think the ME would be in driving a couple low-tier bookshelf speakers? (for example http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/products/s30-bookshelf-speaker)


----------



## teofilrocks

doomforce said:


> Quick question guys,
> 
> How competent would you think the ME would be in driving a couple low-tier bookshelf speakers? (for example http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/products/s30-bookshelf-speaker)




Without an integrated amp, terribly  But with one, just fine.


----------



## DoomForce

teofilrocks said:


> Without an integrated amp, terribly  But with one, just fine.



Silly question, of course. Shouldn't browse when drunk. Thanks for the reply


----------



## estreeter

I'd go one further and offer that we shouldn't post when drunk - browsing isnt particularly dangerous IME. The S30 is, afaik, the only CA product to rate nothing less than 5-star reviews on Amazon : not a single complaint about quality control or the sonics:
   
http://www.amazon.com/Cambridge-Audio-S30-Bookshelf-Speakers/product-reviews/B00198LYMU/ref=cm_cr_dp_see_all_btm/187-9690294-1426938?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending


----------



## netdog

One of the first things that became clear with my ME was that I really really need to upgrade my 685s.


----------



## Satir

n/a


----------



## netdog

Years ago I had a pair of Kef Reference 102s. Loved them.

Currently I've got a Mac Mini > iTunes/BitPerfect > Rega Brio-R > The B&Ws.

I recently upgraded to the Rega when my NAD gave up, and between the Rega and the ME, I'm realizing that the speakers are kind of dull.


----------



## pwfletcher

Absolutely can't wait to hear this!


----------



## Satir

netdog said:


> Years ago I had a pair of Kef Reference 102s. Loved them.
> 
> Currently I've got a Mac Mini > iTunes/BitPerfect > Rega Brio-R > The B&Ws.
> 
> I recently upgraded to the Rega when my NAD gave up, and between the Rega and the ME, I'm realizing that the speakers are kind of dull.


 
 n/a


----------



## JakeJack_2008

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> Makes perfect sense.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Aprpos this:
   
   
*Quote: *


> *Hint:  If using a laptop instead of a desktop PC, try comparing the noise floor of your USB-powered DAC as heard when running the laptop on battery power vs. when the laptop is plugged into an AC outlet.  When I owned a USB-powered Stoner Acoustics UD100 (an ESS9023 DAC), one of my laptops, a Toshiba L505, exhibited a dramatic reduction in noise heard at the headphones when I ran the laptop on battery power*


 
What noise floor? 
  I use a modern Toshiba Satellite *S-*series laptop (released in June 2012) and the ODAC and O2 (as two _separates_) along with the Beyerdynamic DT 880 (250 Ohm- 2005 Edition) and the sound is _very clear and clean _and I love it.
  No noise, buzzing, whining, etc. It pays to have a _modern laptop _as a transport.


----------



## estreeter

JakeJack_2008, I believe the noise floor issue goes well beyond the _brand_ or _vintage_ of computer you have - most Head-Fiers didnt stagger into computer audio yesterday .... the serious arguments around such minuatiae are best left to the forums at Computer Audiophile and our own Sound Science diehards. Suffice it to say that there are *always* 'blacker' blacks - if Chris Connaker is still finding that, I think we all have a way to go to reach our ideal rig.


----------



## Satir

n/a


----------



## zilch0md

Quote: 





jakejack_2008 said:


> Aprpos this:
> 
> 
> What noise floor?
> ...


 
   
  I'm genuinely happy for you that _your_ USB-powered DAC (different make and model than what I use), in combination with _your _Toshiba laptop (different model), and_ your_ amp (different make and model) and_ your _headphones (different make and model), and _your _cables (different make and model), exhibit no evidence of a noise floor when listening with _your _ears.  
   
  That's awesome.  You have no problem that needs fixing, and apparently, no incentive to experiment with external 5V power supplies.  That's great!
   
   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Mike


----------



## ACoward

Hi.
   
  A few people have asked about using the Meridian Explorer with an iPad via
  the Camera Connection Kit (CCK).  I thought I'd post about my experience.
   
  I just purchased the Meridian Explorer from Todd the Vinyl Junkie (thanks,
  Todd, for the service and fast ship) with the expectation of using it with my
  iPad (original model) and Mac.  I was only half confident that it would work
  with the iPad as there was a post in this thread saying it did not work,
  but a video on YouTube showing the ME working with and iPad 2. 
   
  My first attempt at using it with the iPad failed with "The connected USB
  device is not supported".  This was using a cheapo no-name USB 2.0
  4 port hub for power.  I thought all hope was lost since the same test
  with an Audio Engine D1 worked. However, I also did not want to dismiss
  the YouTube video and thought that it may be because of different IOS
  software versions (my original iPad will only runs IOS 5 will the iPad 2
  will run IOS 6)... could it be that Apple added additional drivers in IOS 6?
   
  Not wanting to concede so quickly, I tried again a while later with a different
  USB hub.  This time a no-name USB 3.0 hub.  To my surprise, it worked!
  I was even able to play 24/192 files using "FLAC Player" (three LEDs lit up
  on the ME, indicating it was receiving 192KHz). 
   
  Anyway, to make a long story short, the ME does work with the iPad and
  the CCK.  However, whether it works or not depends on the USB hub
  you are using to power the device.


----------



## zilch0md

Nice! 
   
  Thanks for sharing that information.
   
  Mike
   
  Edit: * To operate independent of an AC outlet with the iPad > Meridian*, you could try using a 5V battery pack to power the Meridian, while getting only data from the iPad. See this post.


----------



## JakeJack_2008

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> Nice!
> 
> Thanks for sharing that information.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> Nice!
> 
> Thanks for sharing that information.
> 
> ...


 
  First of all, thanx to Mike in post #717.
   
  Now, this is a very interesting post. Thanx for the interesting link as well.


----------



## ACoward

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> *To operate independent of an AC outlet with the iPad > Meridian*, you could try using a 5V battery pack to power the Meridian, while getting only data from the iPad. See this post.


 
   
  Hi, zilch0md.
   
  Thanks for the link.  Coincidentally, I have a similar cable lying around (I never did
  know what it was used for, but at least I know now) and gave it a shot.  However,
  I'm sad to report that it did not work for me.  I still got the power warning.
   
  Thinking about it further, I'm not surprised it failed.  The problem is that the device
  (in this case the ME) reports to the host (iPad) over USB how much power it requires.
  The iPad then uses this to determine if it can provide sufficient power to drive the device.
  When using a powered USB hub, the hub reports to the host how much power it needs
  to operate and not it's children devices.  Since it's a powered hub, it's probably under
  the maximum amount that the iPad can provide.  The hub basically "hides" the power
  consumption of the ME from the iPad.
   
  When using the USB dual power cable, it is just providing power to the ME.  The ME
  does not know that the power is from an external power source and not the iPad, so
  it thinks things are fine and dandy:  It does not "downgrade" the power requirements it
  reports to the iPad, and there is nothing in between to filter out the power reporting.
  Hence, the iPad still thinks it does not have enough power to drive the ME.
   
  This is at least my understanding... I'm sure someone will correct me if this is not
  accurate.  Anyway, it was worth a try.


----------



## zilch0md

If your theory is correct (and it makes sense to me), this won't make any difference, but I'm curios...  Did you tape the 4th pin of the USB connector that plugs into the iPad?  
   
  Mike


----------



## lextek

It's not a Meridian but I did this with an Audioquest and iPod.  Used a 4xAA battery holder and USB hub.


----------



## ACoward

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> If your theory is correct (and it makes sense to me), this won't make any difference, but I'm curios...  Did you tape the 4th pin of the USB connector that plugs into the iPad?
> 
> Mike


 
   

 Since I was after "more power" and not "clean power", I did not cover the 4th pin.
  Anyway, I did go back and try again, this time with the tape, and the iPad still
  reports too much power.  Actually, depending on the order you plugged things in,
  it would either report too much power or do nothing at all.


----------



## zilch0md

Nice work lextek!
   
  Mike
   
  Quote: 





lextek said:


> It's not a Meridian but I did this with an Audioquest and iPod.  Used a 4xAA battery holder and USB hub.


----------



## feverfive

Soooo, none of my fellow early adopters has gotten their replacement Explorers from Meridian?  Got my email from Ron Lennox at Meridian-America on March 21st, and nothing since then.  Just curious...


----------



## Painterspal

Quote: 





feverfive said:


> Soooo, none of my fellow early adopters has gotten their replacement Explorers from Meridian?  Got my email from Ron Lennox at Meridian-America on March 21st, and nothing since then.  Just curious...


 

 I haven't changed mine yet but I'm planning to do it in a couple of weeks when I'm going to be away for a few days. However, I'm a little worried about what I'll receive.
   
  Although Meridian's PDF form was reassuring in that it said that a replacement would be sent within two days, their reply to my email was somewhat bizarre: "If you’re experiencing problems with your current Explorer we’re able to exchange this for a version with a higher output to drive your “hard to drive” devices". Given that the 'devices' I specifically cited were my Westone 4R and Sennheiser Momentum and I noted the high output impedance issue I'm puzzled. If these are 'hard to drive' what does that make my HD800? I don't want a higher output, I just want a lower output impedance.
   
  My concern is that I'm currently more than happy with the DAC performance and I don't want to loose that, so I'm a little reluctant to return it; I just want the headphone out to be better for when I'm traveling with my laptop (and with possible future resale in mind), but everything else left as now. Does anyone know how they've lowered the impedence of the revised version?
   
  On the subject of USB power conditioning I've been using the iFi device with the Explorer for a while and it does make a considerable difference in my rig. While that isn't unexpected given that my mains power is quite dirty, what surprised me was that it still sounded better in a much cleaner AC environment. For example, for a bit of fun I took my ME/iFi rig over to a friends house where we pitched it up against his Weiss DAC202 using Firewire. It should have been a complete miss-match but we were both shocked at how good the ME/iFi combo sounded. The Weiss was better but it was much closer than I would ever have expected when the iFi was in the chain. A terrific combination IMO.
   
  My desk may be old and scruffy, but the sound certainly isn't!


----------



## zilch0md

Hi Painterspal,
   
  Your very credible comments regarding the iFi iUSBPower continue to entice me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





   I have no knowledge currently of any problem that I could solve by purchasing an iUSBPower, but I ever since reading Michael Lavorgna's review at Audiostream, I continue to accumulate stories of people trying it and discovering, with few exceptions, that it either reduces a noise floor they didn't know they had, or improves dynamics, or some other trait that is dependent on the USB-powered DAC or DAC/amp receiving sufficient power (more current) and/or cleaner power than they were getting from their particular laptop's USB port.  
   
  Having built myself a portable external 5V solution, I discovered an improvement in dynamics with the DACport LX, and I've since purchased a DACport (DAC + Amp) that has proven to really thrive on the extra current that my 5V battery pack can deliver, compared to what I am convinced is a less than USB 2.0 specification current supplied by my netbook's USB port. (The battery pack puts out 2000 mA vs. the USB port putting out less than 500mA).
   
  There are so many variables to be considered, however.  When I use efficient IEMs with the DACport, the distinction given by having a 2 Amp 5V battery pack isn't as great as when using my LCD-2 on the DACport or even my Beyer DT1350 - which falls between IEMs and LCD-2 in efficient.  And I'm not having any noise problems with this netbook, so no change there.  But when using my wife's Toshiba laptop, the difference in noise, especially with IEMs, is noticeable, and greatly so, if the laptop is plugged into AC.
   
  It all comes back to asking oneself - do I have a known problem I'd like to solve -or- am I just curious about the iFi iUSBPower?   Either way, from reports I keep reading, it seems the odds are extremely good I wouldn't be disappointed, but I'll stick with my portable battery pack external 5V solution, for now.  
   
  Thanks for the enticement, though!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   If I wanted a USB-powered DAC like the Meridian Explorer to perform double duty in a portable rig AND in a desktop rig, as you do, I'd be all over the iUSBPower.  I wish I were in your shoes, just so I could justify the expense. 
   
  Mike


----------



## zilch0md

Painterspal,
   
  The line you quoted from Merdian's exchange request form reads as if someone in their marketing department wrote it, first - with no understanding of the reason why people are requesting exchanges, and second - with a goal of suggesting there's nothing wrong with the original version, but rather with your desire to use it with "hard to drive" headphones.  
   
  But, like you (if I owned a gen 1 Explorer), I wouldn't be willing to exchange it until I obtained a solid clarification of exactly what distinguishes the gen 2 version.  As you've mentioned, the exchange form shouldn't be referencing an Explorer that offers a higher output (power), but rather, an Explorer that has a lower output impedance.
   
  I've been following this thread fairly closely since the beginning, but at the moment, I cannot recall the _original_ source of the alleged gen 2 specification of 5-Ohms vs. 47 Ohms for the headphone out.  Did Meridian publish this "in writing" somewhere?  If so, I hear you - why isn't that in their exchange request form?  
   
  I hope they get things sorted out for everyone...
   
  Mike


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> Painterspal,
> 
> I cannot recall the _original_ source of the alleged gen 2 specification of 5-Ohms vs. 47 Ohms for the headphone out.  Did Meridian publish this "in writing" somewhere?
> 
> Mike


 
   
  I think at first this 'the word' on the running change, then Tyll confirmed it once he got an updated unit.  Seems doubtful Meridian will actually put it out in the public domain.
   
  I take "hard to drive" meaning anything that is suboptimally driven by the unit - a sleight of hand pushing the blame onto the headphones/iems themselves as being in some exotic class when in fact it's probably 95% of what people will actually be using this for (at least when using the headphone out).  Yeah, marketing...


----------



## teofilrocks

The origin of the 5-ohm impedance in this thread was me. That number was specifically stated by Meridian manager Ken Forsythe in an email response to me. I posted the number and shortly after Tyll posted the same.


----------



## zilch0md

OK, thanks!  So, 5-Ohms is a legitimate spec for the forthcoming version of the Exporer, but it would be nice to see it written in the their exchange request form.


----------



## feverfive

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> OK, thanks!  So, 5-Ohms is a legitimate spec for the forthcoming version of the Exporer, but it would be nice to see it written in the their exchange request form.


 

 Wait...there's a form we have to fill out to exchange?  My email from Ron Lennox on March 21st made no mention of a form...only that I'd been added to their list of peeps who were going to get a newer version of the ME..  He stated it might take 2 or 3 weeks to receive my replacement.


----------



## FlySweep

I'm in the US and wasn't aware of any form.  A few weeks ago, Ron/Chris (from Meridian) sent me a UPS shipping label and told me to return *only* the Meridian Explorer and its carrying pouch.


----------



## zilch0md

Quote: 





feverfive said:


> Wait...there's a form we have to fill out to exchange?  My email from Ron Lennox on March 21st made no mention of a form...only that I'd been added to their list of peeps who were going to get a newer version of the ME..  He stated it might take 2 or 3 weeks to receive my replacement.


 
   
  Quote: 





flysweep said:


> I'm in the US and wasn't aware of any form.  A few weeks ago, Ron/Chris (from Meridian) sent me a UPS shipping label and told me to return *only* the Meridian Explorer and its carrying pouch.


 
   
  See this post by Painterspal, above, where he wrote about a PDF form Meridian sent him.
   
  Maybe this form is something new they've started sending people who request exchanges...
   
  Mike


----------



## Painterspal

Meridian Explorer form.
   
  Apologies, I've created a link to it here on my website. Finger crossed it works okay.


----------



## netdog

I can't seem to select that link to compare the file to mine.


----------



## zilch0md

Quote: 





netdog said:


> I can't seem to select that link to compare the file to mine.


 
   
  Me neither - that's a folder containing a complete web page (from Head-Fi).
   
  Please try updating that link with the actual PDF, Painterspal.
   
  Thanks!
   
  Mike


----------



## bobeau

Sorry to go a bit off topic but looping back to how I hear this from my Fitear TG334, I noticed there's a review of these out there with measurements using stock, a 33 ohm, and 100 ohm inline resistors:
   
  http://rinchoi.blogspot.com/2012/12/fit-ear-to-go-334.html
   
  It's been mentioned in the 334 thread that a 100 ohm resistor is probably the best bet if you want to approach diffuse field flat response for these IEMs.  My take from studying up on this is this is no different than adding to the output impedance - so it's as I'm listening to the revised unit (5 ohm output impedance) with a 42 ohm resistor in the cable?
   
  I've gone back and forth w/ the Microstreamer and Explorer over the past few weeks, my overall impression is that the Explorer seems more precise/detailed/taut but lacks some body and musicality.  For all day usage, I prefer the Microstreamer, but there are things I definitely enjoy the Explorer more.  I also find I prefer the 000 cable (a thicker, SPC cable) w/ the Explorer but opt for the 001 cable for the Microstreamer, perhaps w/ the idea the latter has a bit more resistance in it?


----------



## newtophones07

So is everyone who has requested a replacement now being required to First ship the unit back, then receive a replacement at some unknown time frame? I just got a ups rma return slip after waiting for over two weeks

This is frustrating, my original email contact/confirmation was that I would not be without a unit. Ie.. the new one would come, and then I ship the replacement back

Why the change?


----------



## Painterspal

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> Me neither - that's a folder containing a complete web page (from Head-Fi).
> 
> Please try updating that link with the actual PDF, Painterspal.
> 
> ...


 
  Apologies, I couldn't figure it out so I've put a link to it on my website. - see above.
  Quote: 





newtophones07 said:


> So is everyone who has requested a replacement now being required to First ship the unit back, then receive a replacement at some unknown time frame? I just got a ups rma return slip after waiting for over two weeks
> 
> This is frustrating, my original email contact/confirmation was that I would not be without a unit. Ie.. the new one would come, and then I ship the replacement back
> 
> Why the change?


 
  That's certainly my impression, at least here in the UK. It's a concern for me too. I intend to check and confirm that stock is ready and available before I return it.


----------



## Painterspal

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> Painterspal,
> 
> The line you quoted from Merdian's exchange request form reads as if someone in their marketing department wrote it, first - with no understanding of the reason why people are requesting exchanges, and second - with a goal of suggesting there's nothing wrong with the original version, but rather with your desire to use it with "hard to drive" headphones.
> 
> ...


 
  Yes, I agree, sounds like marketing speak to me too. Probably not a technical answer, at least I hope not!
  Quote: 





teofilrocks said:


> The origin of the 5-ohm impedance in this thread was me. That number was specifically stated by Meridian manager Ken Forsythe in an email response to me. I posted the number and shortly after Tyll posted the same.


 
  I have no reason to doubt that the revised specification is correct, I'm just curious how it's been achieved and what has been tweaked to make it possible.


----------



## FlySweep

Huzzah!
   
  Moments ago, I received a UPS tracking confirmation email from Meridian: my revised Explorer is scheduled to arrive one week from today.  I posted my 'old Explorer' (with the UPS return label) on 4/1 (exactly one week ago).. then emailed Ron the same day to let him know that I had sent it.  So in my case, the turnaround from Meridian has been very prompt.


----------



## jkbkot

I received my revised Explorer today. I sent mine to Meridian on 23rd March, they received it on 2nd April. I am more content with this revised version.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Quote: 





jkbkot said:


> I received my revised Explorer today. I sent mine to Meridian on 23rd March, they received it on 2nd April. I am more content with this revised version.


 
   
  yay!!!  Glad to hear you like the replacement.  I hope to get mine soon.  I still have the original so I'll compare the two.


----------



## aayler

hi jkbkot, would you mind elaborating why you prefer the revised version over the initial release?
   
  thanks!


----------



## jkbkot

Quote: 





aayler said:


> hi jkbkot, would you mind elaborating why you prefer the revised version over the initial release?
> 
> thanks!


 
  Hi, with the original version I heard too little bass and too much highs and mids and all together it just didn't feel right. With the revised version, I can hear nicely balanced clean music which is, in my opinion, noticeably better than what comes out of the soundcard in my laptop. I don't have any high resolution files (only CD quality) and the best headphones I have are Shure SE315s so I can't tell you much more than this.


----------



## JakeJack_2008

Has anyone compared the Explorer to the ODAC & O2 or  UHA-6S MKII or DACport or DACport LX, ..?


----------



## aayler

Quote: 





jkbkot said:


> Hi, with the original version I heard too little bass and too much highs and mids and all together it just didn't feel right. With the revised version, I can hear nicely balanced clean music which is, in my opinion, noticeably better than what comes out of the soundcard in my laptop. I don't have any high resolution files (only CD quality) and the best headphones I have are Shure SE315s so I can't tell you much more than this.


 
   
  hi jkbkot, thanks for sharing your impressions!


----------



## bobeau

Just checking in - got my UPS return label sent to me on Thurs, shipping mine out tomorrow.  
   
  Anyone in the US gotten their's back yet - turnaround a couple weeks or so?


----------



## FlySweep

> Originally Posted by *bobeau* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Just checking in - got my UPS return label sent to me on Thurs, shipping mine out tomorrow.
> 
> Anyone in the US gotten their's back yet - turnaround a couple weeks or so?


 
   
  I think there's been a couple of people who received their revised Explorer.. mine arrives tomorrow.


----------



## plakat

Has anyone from Europe had any luck contacting Meridian using the mail address explorer@meridian.com? I wrote to them some weeks ago, never heard back...


----------



## bernie vie

I have contacted the local rep of Meridian in Austria a month ago. They are going to get in touch as soon as they have received my replacement.


----------



## Fidelity182

Simple stick, but don't do very much.
   
  No No for me.


----------



## estreeter

Nothing scruffy about that rig, painterspal. Two thumbs up on aesthetic and practical value alone


----------



## DarkSkies

Yes, contact with the explorer@ official address is terrible. They answer to every third message sent to them in a way that does not bring anything to the table.
   
  I wanted to find out how to order the revised version of Explorer where I live. I was told twice that local dealership will contact me... and nothing has happened so far. It's been over 2 weeks now. I am ready to pay for the device right away. The problem is nobody is actually willing to sell it to me/tell me where to buy it.
   
  I also asked for serial numbers re recognizing revised Explorers from the the initial nigh impedance batch, twice. Those emails also remained unanswered.
   
  The stunts Meridian is pulling with the very much bull**** support provided via explorer@meridian.com is beyond silly. This is truly making me reconsider


----------



## wfranklin

Since you didn't mention where you are located, it is difficult for anyone to recommend a local dealer.  You are asking for a lot of support from a company with whom you are not currently a customer.  What do you expect?


----------



## DarkSkies

Quote: 





wfranklin said:


> Since you didn't mention where you are located, it is difficult for anyone to recommend a local dealer.  You are asking for a lot of support from a company with whom you are not currently a customer.  What do you expect?


 
   
  Asking a manufacturer which of their local supposedly authorized resellers can possibly sell a version of their product is "asking for a lot of support", especially as they supposedly dedicate a specialized branch of their company just to provide such information (as they themselves claim)? You are being silly  ..and I did not ask anybody to recommend me anything.
   
  When I sent similar request to Krell when I was shopping for their components several months back, they called me right back, from the US on an European cell answering all my questions pretty much automatically. When I approached Berkeley Audio Design re their dacs and usb units they answered my email after exactly 6 minutes. LMAO, even 'local' amazon.de writes back almost instantly and I can imagine they do have thousands of customers bugging them at any given moment.
   
  Quality of service is care and flexibility, *not* making the customer feel like a company is making them big favors generously selling their products to them.


----------



## newtophones07

just got my replacement in the mail, took about two weeks in total. I have not used it yet as it is primarily for work. While I certainly did not appreciate the downtime (as I had to buy another option in the meantime), the company did make good on the replacement so I do appreciate that aspect of it

make sure you are at home, they did not require signature on my package and it was left on my doorstep, when I came home from work.


----------



## Fidelity182

Quote: 





painterspal said:


> I haven't changed mine yet but I'm planning to do it in a couple of weeks when I'm going to be away for a few days. However, I'm a little worried about what I'll receive.
> 
> Although Meridian's PDF form was reassuring in that it said that a replacement would be sent within two days, their reply to my email was somewhat bizarre: "If you’re experiencing problems with your current Explorer we’re able to exchange this for a version with a higher output to drive your “hard to drive” devices". Given that the 'devices' I specifically cited were my Westone 4R and Sennheiser Momentum and I noted the high output impedance issue I'm puzzled. If these are 'hard to drive' what does that make my HD800? I don't want a higher output, I just want a lower output impedance.
> 
> ...


 
  Hi Dude,
   
  Where did you get that stand ? Cool !


----------



## wfranklin

Quote: 





darkskies said:


> Asking a manufacturer which of their local supposedly authorized resellers can possibly sell a version of their product is "asking for a lot of support", especially as they supposedly dedicate a specialized branch of their company just to provide such information (as they themselves claim)? You are being silly  ..and I did not ask anybody to recommend me anything.
> 
> When I sent similar request to Krell when I was shopping for their components several months back, they called me right back, from the US on an European cell answering all my questions pretty much automatically. When I approached Berkeley Audio Design re their dacs and usb units they answered my email after exactly 6 minutes. LMAO, even 'local' amazon.de writes back almost instantly and I can imagine they do have thousands of customers bugging them at any given moment.
> 
> Quality of service is care and flexibility, *not* making the customer feel like a company is making them big favors generously selling their products to them.


 
  ME=$300 USD. Krell=$$$$($?); figure the margins.


----------



## Painterspal

Quote: 





fidelity182 said:


> Hi Dude,
> 
> Where did you get that stand ? Cool !


 

 Thanks, my wife bought it for me as a Christmas present. They're made by a German company called Sieveking
   
  Pricey, but a great stand.


----------



## crooner

I sent my request to Mr. Lennox on March 24th. Still waiting in the "queue".
   
  On April 6 I got this: "We are delivering units starting last week as inventory allows. Just keep enjoying your current unit until we get to you. Ron."


----------



## crooner

**** Duplicate post*************


----------



## jkbkot

Hi, I would like to know your opinion on this article: http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
  It's very long and detailed, the TL;DR is something like: higher resolution than CD doesn't make sense and "Its playback fidelity is slightly inferior to 16/44.1 or 16/48, and it takes up 6 times the space."


----------



## wfranklin

Quote: 





jkbkot said:


> Hi, I would like to know your opinion on this article: http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
> It's very long and detailed, the TL;DR is something like: higher resolution than CD doesn't make sense and "Its playback fidelity is slightly inferior to 16/44.1 or 16/48, and it takes up 6 times the space."


 
  I'm not sure the guy understands the difference between a 192kHz sampling rate, vs a 192kHz frequency response upper limit.  I think this is where the whole article gets into trouble, based on a cursory look.


----------



## Clemmaster

Quote: 





wfranklin said:


> I'm not sure the guy understands the difference between a 192kHz sampling rate, vs a 192kHz frequency response upper limit.  I think this is where the whole article gets into trouble, based on a cursory look.


 
   
  The guy talks about expectation bias: his whole article is one good example of such bias. I don't like the authoritative tone he's using either


----------



## Haonan

fidelity182 said:


> Hi Dude,
> 
> Where did you get that stand ? Cool !




Hello fellow Singaporean, that HP stand is actually Sieveking Sound Omega Headphone Stand. These are quite priced pretty expensive actually for the original ones but if you don't mind rip-off similarly made ones by China manufacturers, I believe you can find some on Taobao.com if you search around.

Cheers.


----------



## Burju

Any owners in US received any further communications from Meridian? Any replacement units received?
Still waiting.......


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





burju said:


> Any owners in US received any further communications from Meridian? Any replacement units received?
> Still waiting.......


 
   
  I got my RMA label on March 11, shipped out to them on the 15th.  They received it last Friday and shipped the replacement on Monday, which will be arriving tomorrow.
   
  There was a bit of pestering on my end, not sure if that helped move things along.


----------



## Burju

Thank you bobeau, you are lucky.

I have contacted them twice with emails and a call back in the early March.
So my status:
1. No form or RMA or a call for further communications/instructions from Meridian.
2. No updates on what's going on from Meridian.
3. Already past my 30 days return policy from my dealer, a bit reluctant to go thru my dealer route again.......pestering......lol

Ok, who out there in the same boat as I am?..........we need to revolt.....hahaha bollocks me think ei


----------



## JakeJack_2008

Quote: 





burju said:


> Thank you bobeau, you are lucky.
> 
> I have contacted them twice with emails and a call back in the early March.
> So my status:
> ...


 
  Shame on them. In this case I stay with my JDS Labs ODAC and O2 (as two separates).
  JDS Labs customer service is fantastic.


----------



## Burju

The meridian explorer on the line out mode itself, to me is the dog's bollocks, they hold their name in this $300 DAC category.
It brings up Stevie Ray Vaughn's "Little Wing" to the next level of excitement.

The customer service is the bollocks part and the headphone out mode too....lol. 
Meridian's customer service is having a "Fredie Krueger" at the moment. Lol.

I might not get the replacement, I guess,.... from the earlier pestering to Meridian reps, early in March.lol.

Cheers


----------



## crooner

I am still waiting for them to contact me. Has taken longer than I had expected. Very disappointed.


----------



## orkney

I took delivery of the revised version on Thursday and had a chat with my dealer regarding the Great Explorer Controversy. This version sounds very good driving the few HPs I have around (W3000ANV, Grado RS1, SE530). No obvious problems with low or high frequencies, nice tonality, great resolution. A definite step up from the DF as a DAC/HP for me, and a more pleasing listen than my old DAC1, if not as powerful. Used as a DAC into my speaker rig it's no slouch either. Will try it as USB/SPDIF converter later this weekend. My experience through my dealer was pretty transparent -- took the old one, called me a few weeks later for the revised version.
   
  best,
   
  o


----------



## bobeau

Took delivery of mine yesterday, have maybe 4 hours or so on it now.  Performance-wise w/ my TG 334s, it's quite close to the Microstreamer now, perhaps has a slight edge in detail and tautness to the sound (granted though that could still be due to the higher impedance, which appears to have that effect on the TG 334).  It will probably take me a couple weeks to determine which one I prefer, but to my ears both are clear step ups from the Dragonfly.
   
  To those having trouble getting feedback from Meridian - only thing I can say is be persistent, include you prior attempts in your messages.  Contact your dealer to see if they can help out.


----------



## tom-in-hk

Hello everyone, 
   
  I am considering to buy the Meridian Explorer DAC, however can someone let me know how to identify if the retailer is selling the revised version or the original?
   
  I am in HK, I dont think Meridian has an official showroom, just resellers...so old stock may be still floating around and I dont want to jump through hoops to get a replacement if I get caught out..
   
  Cheers,
 Tom


----------



## GoSUV

Tom,
According to some unofficial sources (like resellers) I found out, units with serial numbers at MA030W and prior are the old versions. Anything after that is the revised version. Hope this is going to help somewhat.


----------



## tom-in-hk

Thanks GoSUV, but does that mean only 30 units were affected? I.e, MA001W - MA030W?


----------



## JakeJack_2008

Quote: 





gosuv said:


> Tom,
> According to some unofficial sources (like resellers) I found out, units with *serial numbers at MA030W and prior *are the old versions. Anything after that is the revised version. Hope this is going to help somewhat.


 
   
  Thanx. Good to know it.


----------



## GoSUV

Quote: 





tom-in-hk said:


> Thanks GoSUV, but does that mean only 30 units were affected? I.e, MA001W - MA030W?


 
  I seriously don't know, but I would guess more than 30 units were sold from the initial batch. I don't have one to verify any serial numbers, as I am only interested in one but heard about the output impedance issue so put my purchase on hold. I'll probably visit a retailer next week to buy one eventually, and will plan to verify the serial number by then.


----------



## plakat

My serial number does not look anything like that, its 8 characters long and does not start with 'MA'...


----------



## orkney

One heads-up for OSX users -- the Explorer seems to default to full output via its HP out, either when plugged in cold or if iTunes pauses -- this may be an iTunes-specific glitch, but worth unplugging your phones between uses just in case. I'll check this out with other programs this aft.
   
  o


----------



## emsubs

Quote: 





plakat said:


> My serial number does not look anything like that, its 8 characters long and does not start with 'MA'...


 
   
  An approximate inventory date may also be useful in determining whether you're purchasing a revised unit.
  I purchased the Explorer on March 23rd. I was told that the revised unit had just flown in from Meridian UK on the 21st (I live in Canada). 
   
  I would probably be careful in purchasing a unit that's been in the reseller's inventory prior to the second half of March 2013.


----------



## bobeau

[delete]


----------



## JakeJack_2008

Quote:


orkney said:


> One heads-up for OSX users -- the Explorer seems to default to full output via its HP out, either when plugged in cold or if iTunes pauses -- this may be an iTunes-specific glitch, but worth unplugging your phones between uses just in case. I'll check this out with other programs this aft.
> 
> o


 
  What does the *'full output *_via its HP out' _mean???


----------



## orkney

Quote: 





jakejack_2008 said:


> Quote:
> What does the *'full output *_via its HP out' _mean???


 
   
   
  It means that the Explorer's amp defaults to 11. Not a good thing for headphones connected to it. As I said, this may be an MA/iTunes glitch -- perhaps others can chime in.
   
  o


----------



## Radio_head

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> Took delivery of mine yesterday, have maybe 4 hours or so on it now.  Performance-wise w/ my TG 334s, it's quite close to the Microstreamer now, perhaps has a slight edge in detail and tautness to the sound (granted though that could still be due to the higher impedance, which appears to have that effect on the TG 334).  It will probably take me a couple weeks to determine which one I prefer, but to my ears both are clear step ups from the Dragonfly.
> 
> To those having trouble getting feedback from Meridian - only thing I can say is be persistent, include you prior attempts in your messages.  Contact your dealer to see if they can help out.


 
  Glad you got yours.  Not only did mine not come in, I just got a message that mine had in fact never shipped when in fact I was assured I'd get the replacement first.  At this point I'm fed up with this product and am not pursuing it any further.


----------



## plakat

Quote: 





emsubs said:


> An approximate inventory date may also be useful in determining whether you're purchasing a revised unit.
> I purchased the Explorer on March 23rd. I was told that the revised unit had just flown in from Meridian UK on the 21st (I live in Canada).
> 
> I would probably be careful in purchasing a unit that's been in the reseller's inventory prior to the second half of March 2013.


 
   
  I got mine on the 19th of February... so I'm quite sure its an old version.


----------



## Burju

radio_head said:


> Glad you got yours.  Not only did mine not come in, I just got a message that mine had in fact never shipped when in fact I was assured I'd get the replacement first.  At this point I'm fed up with this product and am not pursuing it any further.




Radiohead, 
I am also dreaming that in the near future, these small batch of "original" units will be "a rare diamond" that head-fiers looking for......lol
I can relate to your frustration although in my case they have not even sent me any new messages since early March.
Wedged, smack dab in the middle, is it headphone-intended Dac or is it a line out Dac? Although my FLAC Player could reproduce up to 24/96 sound quality using IPad 2 or mini-CCK-belkin USB AC powered hub 5V 2A-line out Meridian Explorer not headphone out-RCA into my antique stereo system of Adcom Preamp feeding Magnepan MMG plus Velodyne sub HGS12. Oh wait....this meridian is not portable at all.....hahaha kidding.
I can hook up my HE400 thru meridian line out feeding my ALO Continental V2. I need to save for portable battery power feeding my Belkin USB hub, to make it a "brick-able" portable gears......hahaha I would try my fellow head-fier-zilch0md's suggestion of using Anker Astro3 LiPo battery pack on 5V as my portable clean power supply of the USB hub. Anybody with an iPad and a Dac has similar success? Or by not sharing or posting, you guys are as paranoid as I am that Apple might change the IOS to kill this success?...hahaha
OK, has anybody follow my post here to see how big my man-bag would be?.....hahaha the brick will be IPad + USB hub + battery power pack + Meridian + Continental + HE400. 

Picture of USB hub powered Meridian thru Jolida FX10.
 

OK have a good week.

Cheers Big Ears


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





radio_head said:


> Glad you got yours.  Not only did mine not come in, I just got a message that mine had in fact never shipped when in fact I was assured I'd get the replacement first.  At this point I'm fed up with this product and am not pursuing it any further.


 
   
  Bummer, the customer service definitely is not to par here.  Not uh, smeggy levels, but I digress...
   
  So you were offered to get a replacement in first before sending your current back?  The process I went through was getting an RMA slip, shipping to Meridian on the east coast, then waiting for the replacement.  Total turnaround was 10 business days.


----------



## aayler

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> Bummer, the customer service definitely is not to par here.  Not uh, smeggy levels, but I digress...
> 
> So you were offered to get a replacement in first before sending your current back?  The process I went through was getting an RMA slip, shipping to Meridian on the east coast, then waiting for the replacement.  Total turnaround was 10 business days.


 
   


 A request please: if you still have your 1st gen Meridian, could you please via the USB bus information (for instance, on a mac) and see the version number? I am trying to figure out, as was a recent poster, a way to distinguish between the first iteration of the device and the 'improved' version.
   
  Thanks in advance!


----------



## orkney

Quote: 





aayler said:


> A request please: if you still have your 1st gen Meridian, could you please via the USB bus information (for instance, on a mac) and see the version number? I am trying to figure out, as was a recent poster, a way to distinguish between the first iteration of the device and the 'improved' version.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


 

  Here's a cap of info from the latest version -- this may be the one you have, so please feel free to ignore:
   
*[size=11.0pt]Meridian Explorer USB DAC:[/size]*
   
[size=11.0pt]  Product ID:                         0x0011[/size]
[size=11.0pt]  Vendor ID:                          0x1cba[/size]
[size=11.0pt]  Version:                              13.47[/size]
[size=11.0pt]  Serial Number:                  030005BD[/size]
[size=11.0pt]  Speed:                                 Up to 480 Mb/sec[/size]
[size=11.0pt]  Manufacturer:                   Meridian [/size]
[size=11.0pt]  Location ID:                       0xfa130000 / 6[/size]
[size=11.0pt]  Current Available (mA):   500[/size]
[size=11.0pt]  Current Required (mA):   500[/size]


----------



## aayler

Quote: 





orkney said:


> Here's a cap of info from the latest version -- this may be the one you have, so please feel free to ignore:
> 
> *[size=11.0pt]Meridian Explorer USB DAC:[/size]*
> 
> ...


 
   
  thanks orkney!
   
  this is the same version number i have (13.47) - i was curious to see if the 1st batch had a different number ...
   
  best,


----------



## plakat

I bought my unit at the end of february and OS X system information shows a version of "13.45"


----------



## aayler

Quote: 





plakat said:


> I bought my unit at the end of february and OS X system information shows a version of "13.45"


 
   
  thanks plakat!
   

 were you considering getting in touch with meridian for the "new" version?
   
  best,


----------



## aayler

I was interested in finding out the version number - aside from the fact that physically, it is impossible to tell from the actual unit what version - directly as a result of my experience (echoed here by some other members) dealing with Meridian - in this case, Meridian USA.
   
  Like others on this thread, I contacted them and received a response stating to the effect that you should hold on to the unit and "enjoy it" as they prepared to ship a replacement out in 2-3 weeks. 2 and 3 weeks following this correspondence - with no follow up other than the brief responses to my weekly-spaced follow up checks to see the progress - there was a note that I should be hearing from someone soon about a shipping label.
   
  Near the end of the 3rd week, I finally received an email sharing a UPS label - to cover shipping - and instructions to return the unit. This is a different than the stated, but wholly understandable, procedure and I dispatched the unit to their offices in Georgia.
   
  When I received the new unit two days later, I was surprised to see a thin letter-sized bubble envelope handed to me by my wife when I returned home. I asked her, is this the package I was waiting for, at the same time feeling a slight bulge directly through the think packaging. To my shock, when I opened the envelope, the 'new' unit was unceremoniously thrown in, without a hard container, with no notes, message - just a bare unit in the oversized bubble envelope, the kind you would worry about your CDs as you ship them to your friends.
   
  It can be argued that the way a company treats their products is a reflection of how they value their worth. Not to mention how they value their customers. To be honest, the impression I had when I opened the envelope was that Meridian really doesn't care about their "explorer," and consequently, their customers.
   
  To the point that I felt they easily could have mailed back the unit that I sent - with the little care that they demonstrated in this - what I can only feel as a reluctant and indifferent response from them.
   
  Any other similar or more positive experiences?


----------



## plakat

Quote: 





aayler said:


> thanks plakat!
> 
> 
> were you considering getting in touch with meridian for the "new" version?
> ...


 
   
  Yes, I contacted them some weeks ago and, after not hearing back, again last friday. This time I got a friendly answer by tuesday, asking for details on the serial number (which I got from OS X system info as well -- thats the wrong one btw. Correct one is on the paperbox...) and saying that they'll arrange an exchange via their local representative (whom I already know and will contact eventually).
   
  Its not an urgent thing for me as I mainly use it as a DAC only, connecting its line out to my Lake People amp. Nevertheless I'd like to have the new version in case I want to sell it in the future.


----------



## Matthewwickes

It's my first post so be gentle

Here is my ME finally working with my ipad mini. Thanks to so many posts on here I've been able to find a combo that works......as well as loads that don't. 

My set up is ipad mini > CCK > belkin usb2 hub > usb y cable > Tecknet 5200mAh ipad charger > ME dac

The battery isn't switched on, it's just in the chain but if you unplug it, or plug the y cable directly into the USB hub it doesn't work. 

It plays 192/24 in full resolution and sounds great, and is portable.....ish


----------



## Aerocraft67

I received my return slip early last week. Since then I finally received the Asgard 2 amp I'd been waiting for on backorder for more than a month, and finally fired up the new Airmotiv 4s that had been dormant on my desk. Got it all hooked up and it sounds great. Haven't even taken time to run my HD-650s but for a quick test to confirm normal operation—just digging the A4s.
   
  Now I get to forego the DAC for two weeks. I guess it takes a bit of patience to assemble an audiophile desktop listening station—even an entry level one. Or maybe I'm just lucky.
   
  Although I'm curious, I don't think I have the energy to do much critical listening comparing the v1 Explorer's line out to the HD-650s via the A2 vs. the Explorer's amp out before I send it back, and it won't do much good to try to compare that to the new unit two weeks hence anyway, not to mention that much of the line out character will of course be affected by the amp. And I've already listened to the line out via the home theater system, both to the speakers and headphones, which also overwhelm any comparative listening with their own very different contributions to the audio stream. I guess I'll get a little quality time with the MacBook's DAC in the meantime as a new benchmark. 
   
  I even considered keeping my original Explorer, since I'll mainly use the line out, which sounds fine, and listening to the HD-650s via the headphone out is hardly intolerable. But the whole kerfuffle over the output impedance design flaw just kills the buzz, and drags down resale value should I decide to hock it someday. So I just want to get the process over with and move on to some listening and other hobbies. Still, even at this fleeting intermediate stage, the listening station has indeed come together nicely and sounds great.
   
  Now, if Explorer v1 subsequently becomes a highly sought-after rarified gem, I'll swear off audiophillia altogether.


----------



## HiFiRobot

Quote: 





matthewwickes said:


> It's my first post so be gentle
> 
> Here is my ME finally working with my ipad mini. Thanks to so many posts on here I've been able to find a combo that works......as well as loads that don't.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Cool you got it working. But what is the purpose of the Y-cable if you are not really battery powering the DAC?
  If you put som scotch tape on the 4th pin on the Y-cable connector to the USB-hub you can probably turn the battery on.
  I followed this post http://www.head-fi.org/t/615548/do-the-dacport-and-the-dacport-lx-really-sound-different/30#post_9292387
  and it works on my ODAC. But i have not tried it with my iPad since I don't own the CCK.


----------



## crooner

Still waiting for Meridian to send me a replacement. Last communication with them was on April 6. However, I first contact them on March 24th. Taking forever....


----------



## zilch0md

matthewwickes said:


> It's my first post so be gentle
> 
> Here is my ME finally working with my ipad mini. Thanks to so many posts on here I've been able to find a combo that works......as well as loads that don't.
> 
> ...







hifirobot said:


> Cool you got it working. But what is the purpose of the Y-cable if you are not really battery powering the DAC?
> 
> If you put som scotch tape on the 4th pin on the Y-cable connector to the USB-hub you can probably turn the battery on.
> 
> ...




I agree - it doesn't make sense. I have similar questions: Why is the battery there at all if you leave it turned off? -AND- What purpose is served by the Belkin hub?

Mike


----------



## Matthewwickes

zilch0md said:


> I agree - it doesn't make sense. I have similar questions: Why is the battery there at all if you leave it turned off? -AND- What purpose is served by the Belkin hub?
> 
> Mike




Yes you're right, my fault. I got over excited at getting it to work and posted before I'd read the battery manual. 

I wrongly assumed because the battery light was off it was off. 

But you are right, the battery is on. I don't know what the belkin hub does, but if you plug the y cable directly into the CCK it doesn't work. 

So to correct my post, the battery is on. Sorry for the confusion.


----------



## zilch0md

Thanks very much for the clarification, Matthew - and congratulations for working out a viable solution.   It's pretty cool, really.   Definitely "transportable."
   
  I suspect that your Y cable is pulling power from both the battery pack -AND- the iPad, though.  I've never seen such a cable that wasn't designed to pull power from both of the USB A connectors while pulling data from only one of them (the black one, in your case).
   
  You might find that your Meridian Explorer gets plenty of power from just the battery pack alone, while your iPad's internal battery is conserved for its own use, by taping the 4th pin of the USB A connector that's plugged into your Belkin hub.  
   
  See this post for details:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/615548/do-the-dacport-and-the-dacport-lx-really-sound-different/30#post_9292387
   
  In any case...  Enjoy!
   
  Mike


----------



## telecaster

Is there an android driver solution for the explorer?


----------



## plakat

Regarding the USB hub between the CCK and the Explorer: Maybe it keeps the Explorer from asking the iPad for more current. What error message do you get when you leave out the hub (but use the battery)?
  I've tried using a powered hub but at least with the model I used it did not work.


----------



## Matthewwickes

Cheers Mike, and I'm sure you're right about the Y cable it will be drawing some power from the iPad but I assume that's where the USB hub comes in masking how much power is being called for?
   
  Plakat, the error messages with the ME are always "accessory requires too much power" if I plug directly into the CCK, into the 15 different USB hubs I tried or unplug/switch off the battery.
   
  I guess the ME requires more power than other bus powered USB DACS. I'd read that using a Dr Bott T3 hub works fine with something like the Audioquest Dragonfly plugged into the CCK, but that doesn't work with the ME.
   
  With the set up in my pic, the battery is providing the ME with most of the power it needs, and the USB hub is masking the small remaining current draw the ME is taking from the iPad.


----------



## plakat

Quote: 





matthewwickes said:


> Plakat, the error messages with the ME are always "accessory requires too much power" if I plug directly into the CCK, into the 15 different USB hubs I tried or unplug/switch off the battery.


 
   
  Thats interesting. As noted in a previous post I got different error messages when connecting via a powered hub vs. directly to the CCK.
   
  Nevertheless nice to hear it works for you. I did not investigate further as I already had too many components involved to consider it a viable setup for me


----------



## jkbkot

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *aayler* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


 
   
  I received my replacement unit as nicely package as the original one and the envelope included a signed (not a printed sign, btw) letter on a very nice paper explaining that this is my new unit and that they would welcome my comments on their standard Explorer e-mail address. So I must say I am very content with the level of their service (not counting replies to e-mails). So maybe it's a problem with your particular branch of Meridian...?


----------



## zilch0md

Quote: 





matthewwickes said:


> Cheers Mike, and I'm sure you're right about the Y cable it will be drawing some power from the iPad but I assume that's where the USB hub comes in masking how much power is being called for?
> 
> [snip]
> 
> With the set up in my pic, the battery is providing the ME with most of the power it needs, and the USB hub is masking the small remaining current draw the ME is taking from the iPad.


 
   
  That's an interesting theory, and reasonable given that all those other hubs you tried don't work.  Still, it seems we agree that "some power" is being drawn from the iPad, even if the hub is somehow suppressing the error message.  
   
  Hearing that you tried 15 different hubs, I have to take my hat off to you for exhibiting such dogged persistence to achieve your goal.  It's hugely satisfying when trial and error succeeds through brute determination.
   





   
  Mike


----------



## plakat

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> Hearing that you tried 15 different hubs, I have to take my hat off to you for exhibiting such dogged persistence to achieve your goal.


 
   
  A determined attempt, no question about that. I gave up after testing one hub (OK, I do own only one


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





jkbkot said:


> I received my replacement unit as nicely package as the original one and the envelope included a signed (not a printed sign, btw) letter on a very nice paper explaining that this is my new unit and that they would welcome my comments on their standard Explorer e-mail address. So I must say I am very content with the level of their service (not counting replies to e-mails). So maybe it's a problem with your particular branch of Meridian...?


 
   
  I received somewhere in the middle... a largish (about half the size of the a shoe box) box with no note, just the new unit in the felt sleeve nicely protected in packing foam.
   
  As an aside, I've spent about 40 hours with the new one and have started listening to the HTR Microstreamer again.  It's hard to pick a favorite for me (all listening with my TG334s).  The MS seems to have a smoother, more liquid presentation, almost gives the impression of having a bit more depth to the sound, but the MS excels in dynamics.  They both are really quite excellent.


----------



## JakeJack_2008

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> Thanks very much for the clarification, Matthew - and congratulations for working out a viable solution.   It's pretty cool, really.   Definitely "transportable."
> 
> I suspect that your Y cable is pulling power from both the battery pack -AND- the iPad, though.  I've never seen such a cable that wasn't designed to pull power from both of the USB A connectors while pulling data from only one of them (the black one, in your case).
> 
> ...


 
  This all is very interesting. I'm learning a lot. Good to know this.
  So, the ME is pulling electric power from _both _the iPad and the battery pack _at the same time_.
  I wonder how it is processed. The power from the iPad is not clean (polluted)  and the power from the batteris is clean.


----------



## aayler

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> I received somewhere in the middle... a largish (about half the size of the a shoe box) box with no note, just the new unit in the felt sleeve nicely protected in packing foam.
> 
> As an aside, I've spent about 40 hours with the new one and have started listening to the HTR Microstreamer again.  It's hard to pick a favorite for me (all listening with my TG334s).  The MS seems to have a smoother, more liquid presentation, almost gives the impression of having a bit more depth to the sound, but the MS excels in dynamics.  They both are really quite excellent.


 
   
  hello *jkbkot *and* bobeau*,
   
  thanks for your response - were you dealing with Meridian USA and a gentleman named Ron Lennox?
   
  i also was curious about receiving just the unit itself as there is no serial number attached to the actual device - not sure what to make of this (and down the future if it requires service through warranty, etc.) ...
   
  best,


----------



## Matthewwickes

jakejack_2008 said:


> This all is very interesting. I'm learning a lot. Good to know this.
> So, the ME is pulling electric power from _both_ the iPad and the battery pack _at the same time_.
> I wonder how it is processed. The power from the iPad is not clean (polluted)  and the power from the batteris is clean.




I had chance to properly try out the new set up on a 90 min train jounrey into work. All I can say is its amazing and the best combo I've ever heard. I have Shure SE25s and the silence is incredible, I've never heard (or not heard!) anything like it. I've read elsewhere about 'dirty' power adding noise, pops and clicks but I've had no problems at all. 



plakat said:


> A determined attempt, no question about that. I gave up after testing one hub (OK, I do own only one




Thanks very much. Having spent £200 on the ME I was too stubborn to give up and send it back......so took full advantage of Amazons returns policy trying out usb hubs


----------



## wired00

Just picked up a Explorer today from local hifi store. Great sounding unit. While in the store I tested it coupled with the Musical fidelity M1 HPA and boy did THAT make a great combo. Sounded fantastic with my hd650's. Then I tried with their HD800s.... wow. Although IMO the 800's are so freaking unconfortable. Whats up with that? O.o


----------



## crooner

FInally got the RMA authorization and shipping label (UPS 3 day select) from Jason Baker and Ron Lennox. First Jason requested I ship the DAC by itself, sans box and accessories. I wanted a box with the new serial number however, so they agreed that I return everything to them. The box is in the hands of UPS now... Hopefully it will be quick...
  
  The interesting thing is that the (now departed) Explorer was sounding better than ever as a DAC into my Marantz 7 tube preamp.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

I got a UPS label too.


----------



## Aerocraft67

It took a while to get my shipping label, which of course arrived while I was out of town, so it took even more time to ship my original device back. Once I did, it arrived at the Georgia facility at lunchtime, and a new one shipped out that afternoon, according to the corresponding tracking reports. So the process went as quickly as possible once I sent it back. The new device arrived rather unceremoniously sandwiched in foam, in the felt pouch (perhaps the one I'd sent the original back in), and covered in transparent protective film. And a plastic plug in the line out jack. No other accessories or documentation. 
   
  I confirmed basic operation, but no lengthy critical listening. Initial impressions from my complete-at-long-last desktop listening station were quite positive. Superior resolution compared with my MacBook's DAC was immediately noticeable with Airmotiv 4s. Also apparent after briefly listening with HD-650s is substantially superior sound from an Asgard 2 fed with the Explorer's line out compared with directly connecting to Explorer's integrated headphone amp. All of which is as it should be, although I was somewhat surprised at the A2's immediately apparent superiority. Pretty happy with the rig so far, and it seems well-matched. Although, for now, I'm mostly just relieved to have everything finally shipped and fully operational. 
   
  While the Explorer/A2 sagas were unfolding, I made yet another impulse upgrade to the stereo speakers of the family home theater, which now sports bi-amped PSB B6s driven by a Denon AVR-1712. Although I don't get the opportunity to do much serious listening there, it's nice to deploy the Explorer on that system, too. I've yet to carefully assess the impact of the upgrade over the AVR's DAC, but I presume it'll be discernible if not obvious. If nothing else, Explorer upgrades capability to 192 kHz listening, and otherwise seems reasonably well-placed in class with the downstream home theater kit. 
   
  So that's at least four high-quality listening applications I'm getting out of this source, which is gratifyingly versatile. Output impedance drama aside, seems like a good investment.


----------



## marone

Devices like these are cool, and helpful, and do the job, but in China on TaoBao, eTao, Tmall, etc. they can be purchased for *60 RMB* (approx. $9.66), not $300 dollars.


----------



## telecaster

The perfect amplifier for the HD800 is made by Senn themselves. The new HDV800 has an output impedance of... 43ohms. Let the Genius do their job once again.
   
  I was not a fool and I still have my explorer first version. As it is 47ohms it will drive the Senn HD650/700/800 better than the revised version for those who wanna drive tiny earbuds.


----------



## Fickle-Friend

Marone do you have a link?


----------



## Dsnuts

Quote: 





marone said:


> Devices like these are cool, and helpful, and do the job, but in China on TaoBao, eTao, Tmall, etc. they can be purchased for *60 RMB* (approx. $9.66), not $300 dollars.


 

 Sure I know what your talking about. Stuff like this..

  Lol.. You better start reading about Meridian and educate yourself.


----------



## marone

dsnuts said:


> Lol.. You better start reading about Meridian and educate yourself.




How about we just listen and see which has better value for price?


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





marone said:


> How about we just listen and see which has better value for price?


 
   
  If that were the only metric by which people made their decisions here, it would invalidate the purpose of oh, I dunno, maybe 99% of the discussion on this site?


----------



## marone

bobeau said:


> marone said:
> 
> 
> > How about we just listen and see which has better value for price?
> ...




I disagree. There is a large contingent of members here who have very limited means to acquire gear and value is something that many of them appreciate.

Many, I would estimate half, of those here seek best sound in conjunction with best value for price.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





marone said:


> I disagree. There is a large contingent of members here who have very limited means to acquire gear and value is something that many of them appreciate.
> 
> Many, I would estimate half, of those here seek best sound in conjunction with best value for price.


 
   
  Fantastic, unless you have a ME and ELE (or other DAC in your hands to compare) and want to share your thoughts on that, then please go to the threads discussing those products.  The ELE DAC has gotten alot of love on this site, pretty much everyone is aware there are a plethora of options much cheaper than the ME that do 'similar' things.   Whether it's headphones, IEMS, DACS, amps, DAC/amps, cables, etc, etc, there are a great options out there for all budgets, and pointing out that going upmarket in gear provides diminishing returns is a surprise to no one.


----------



## keabler

Hi all,
   
  I've been looking around for a DAC replacement for my Xonar D1 sound card for my PC.  I actually like my D1 and I run it through a Matrix M-Stage amp so the high output impedance isn't an issue. Any ways, I came across the Meridian Explorer and was very impressed by the reviews.  I also saw that some people were having trouble connecting this to their iPad and I think it is because the DAC is capable of 24/384 Khz.  I read on a review for the Leckerton UHA_6s that iPad's can handle 16/48 Khz outputs and that is why the that DAC has supports a 16 bit DAC.
   
  Here is that review.
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/leckerton-uha-6s-mkii-portable-headphone-amplifier-page-2
   
  I'm not familiar with iPad support but it seems reasonable to say that the issue is with the output bit rate.  However, it might also be that higher bit rate DAC's just draw too much power.  
   
   
  Has any one tried to rework this circuit a bit to accommodate a battery (not including a USB hub battery setup like posted a few pages back)?  This board is small enough that, if you wanted to use this as portable DAC for an iPad and PC, you could just get a slightly larger project box and wire in a battery with a charging port.  I've read some reviews that say that the Meridian Explorer benefits form cleaned power, and a battery would be a practical easy solution for this (and any USB DAC I guess).


----------



## lalala6

Sorry, a noob question, does the new version drive full-sized cans better or worse than the old version? As in, if I'm only using full-sized cans with the Meridian Explorer, would it be better to keep the old version or get the new version? Thanks!


----------



## marone

bobeau said:


> marone said:
> 
> 
> > I disagree. There is a large contingent of members here who have very limited means to acquire gear and value is something that many of them appreciate.
> ...




Indeed I do and that is why I mentioned the cost disparity wrt products from within China and elsewhere. I have 5 of these low end DACs sitting next to me and more, and reviews, are on the way.


----------



## marone

lalala6 said:


> Sorry, a noob question, does the new version drive full-sized cans better or worse than the old version? As in, if I'm only using full-sized cans with the Meridian Explorer, would it be better to keep the old version or get the new version? Thanks!




Good question. I have a few amps that I feed with many of these lower end DAC's and so far the SS 3.5mm jack output from the DAC192 has best sound compared to adding an amplifier to the chain. It won't play as loudly and I do understand that many head-fi'ers like to listen at loud volume levels so that may be very important to you.

At lower listening levels the output from the DAC can be superior to the amp added to the chain. But if you want more slam, bass and louder volume levels an amplifier is probably a good idea.


----------



## lalala6

Quote: 





marone said:


> Good question. I have a few amps that I feed with many of these lower end DAC's and so far the SS 3.5mm jack output from the DAC192 has best sound compared to adding an amplifier to the chain. It won't play as loudly and I do understand that many head-fi'ers like to listen at loud volume levels so that may be very important to you.
> 
> At lower listening levels the output from the DAC can be superior to the amp added to the chain. But if you want more slam, bass and louder volume levels an amplifier is probably a good idea.


 
  Not sure if I follow. To clarify I'm asking about the first version of the Meridian Explorer vs the newer version with lower output impedance, whether it's worth keeping the old one if I only use its built-in amp to drive full-sized headphones.
   
  Thanks for the bit of info though. I have a FiiO E12 that I can use with the Explorer and it certainly makes the sound louder with more bass slam.


----------



## FlySweep

I've had both the original and revised version (which I currently have for sale) of the Meridian Explorer.  In terms of output, both can drive full sized phones w/o a problem.  Full sized phones I've used with both versions are the: HE-400, Fischer Audio FA-002w "High Edition," and Sennheiser HD800.  The latter two phones are relatively sensitive but have high impedance (190 & 300 ohms, respectively).  When the ME's headphone output is at 60%-70%, it drives all these phones to my hearing limit/threshold.
   
  In terms of power output, I can't seem to detect a difference between the original and revised versions.  The revised version does seem to have noticeably lower output impedance on the headphone output.  The original version made my sensitive custom IEM ((22 ohm) sound pretty funky.  This makes sense since the output impedance of the original ME was measured (by Purrin) at nearly 50 ohms.  This would affect driver damping and impedance matching pretty significantly with sensitive phones.  Using my custom IEM, I also compared the revised ME's headphone output vs its line out (connected to the Objective2).  I heard no discerable difference in terms transparency.. the revised ME's headphone output seemed to possess a low enough OI so as to not audibly impact damping with my custom IEM.


----------



## lalala6

Quote: 





flysweep said:


> I've had both the original and revised version (which I currently have for sale) of the Meridian Explorer.  In terms of output, both can drive full sized phones w/o a problem.  Full sized phones I've used with both versions are the: HE-400, Fischer Audio FA-002w "High Edition," and Sennheiser HD800.  The latter two phones are relatively sensitive but have high impedance (190 & 300 ohms, respectively).  When the ME's headphone output is at 60%-70%, it drives all these phones to my hearing limit/threshold.
> 
> In terms of power output, I can't seem to detect a difference between the original and revised versions.  The revised version does seem to have noticeably lower output impedance on the headphone output.  The original version made my sensitive custom IEM ((22 ohm) sound pretty funky.  This makes sense since the output impedance of the original ME was measured (by Purrin) at nearly 50 ohms.  This would affect driver damping and impedance matching pretty significantly with sensitive phones.  Using my custom IEM, I also compared the revised ME's headphone output vs its line out (connected to the Objective2).  I heard no discerable difference in terms transparency.. the revised ME's headphone output seemed to possess a low enough OI so as to not audibly impact damping with my custom IEM.


 
  Thanks for the info, really helped! I'm gonna get the revised version for IEM compatibility, since it seems the lower IO won't affect my full-sized headphones at all.


----------



## keabler

Quote: 





marone said:


> Indeed I do and that is why I mentioned the cost disparity wrt products from within China and elsewhere. I have 5 of these low end DACs sitting next to me and more, and reviews, are on the way.


 
  I'm looking forward to your comparisons!


----------



## bobeau

Quote:  





> I have 5 of these low end DACs sitting next to me and more, and reviews, are on the way.


 
   
  Quote: 





marone said:


> Good question. I have a few amps that I feed with many of these lower end DAC's...


 
   
  Alright, color me confused.  Do you actually have a Meridian Explorer or not?   And if so it is the original or revised (lower impedance unit)?


----------



## telecaster

Quote: 





lalala6 said:


> Thanks for the info, really helped! I'm gonna get the revised version for IEM compatibility, since it seems the lower IO won't affect my full-sized headphones at all.


 
  The new Sennheiser HDVD800 and HDV600 (http://www.head-fi.org/t/605444/sennheiser-hdvd800-headphone-amplifier/615) have and output impedance of 43ohms, which is close to that of the first version Explorer. As you can be sure they design their amp to match their headphones, you can guess which version is better.
  My first version ME drive my HD650 with exquisite sound. YMMV. Or you can buy an 0 ohm output impedance amp because someone says is better for you.


----------



## keabler

Quote: 





telecaster said:


> The new Sennheiser HDVD800 and HDV600 (http://www.head-fi.org/t/605444/sennheiser-hdvd800-headphone-amplifier/615) have and output impedance of 43ohms, which is close to that of the first version Explorer. As you can be sure they design their amp to match their headphones, you can guess which version is better.
> My first version ME drive my HD650 with exquisite sound. YMMV. Or you can buy an 0 ohm output impedance amp because someone says is better for you.


 
  Interesting, I was under the impression that Sennheiser designs their headphones for 0 output impedance.
   
  In my limited amount of direct comparisons, I have tend to agree that low output impedance improves sound.


----------



## plakat

Quote: 





keabler said:


> I'm not familiar with iPad support but it seems reasonable to say that the issue is with the output bit rate.  However, it might also be that higher bit rate DAC's just draw too much power.
> 
> 
> Has any one tried to rework this circuit a bit to accommodate a battery (not including a USB hub battery setup like posted a few pages back)?  This board is small enough that, if you wanted to use this as portable DAC for an iPad and PC, you could just get a slightly larger project box and wire in a battery with a charging port.  I've read some reviews that say that the Meridian Explorer benefits form cleaned power, and a battery would be a practical easy solution for this (and any USB DAC I guess).


 
   
  Definitely an interesting idea... it should actually be quite easy to pair the Explorers logic board with a battery, but in the end you'll also want some charging circuitry to avoid changing batteries (or pulling them out to load them elsewhere). And rated at 5V/500mA (which it might not use all the time though) it does seem to draw quite a bit of power, so rechargeable cells are a must IMO.
   
  The bit rate itself should not have a major impact on current requirements, but I guess its impossible to construct a DAC that can live with the minuscule amount of current the iPad is willing to provide. Solutions like the Leckerton also carry their own batteries... The UHA6S-II simply uses a different USB receiver to avoid connection problems (that in case of the Explorer can be avoided by careful selection of a hub it seems).


----------



## keabler

Quote: 





plakat said:


> Definitely an interesting idea... it should actually be quite easy to pair the Explorers logic board with a battery, but in the end you'll also want some charging circuitry to avoid changing batteries (or pulling them out to load them elsewhere). And rated at 5V/500mA (which it might not use all the time though) it does seem to draw quite a bit of power, so rechargeable cells are a must IMO.
> 
> The bit rate itself should not have a major impact on current requirements, but I guess its impossible to construct a DAC that can live with the minuscule amount of current the iPad is willing to provide. Solutions like the Leckerton also carry their own batteries... The UHA6S-II simply uses a different USB receiver to avoid connection problems (that in case of the Explorer can be avoided by careful selection of a hub it seems).


 
  I've used USB charging boards from ebay to charge rechargeable lithium batteries in other applications.  A 5V battery might be hard to come by though.  I was thinking of using a couple 3.7V batteries with a resistor to bring the voltage down.  If I did this circuit I would probably rig the battery/USB with a switch so that the amp could be charging on USB power or running off of the battery.  

 Charging board (smaller than a dime).
http://www.ebay.com/itm/281091405549?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
  
  and 2 of these batteries.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/110767910198?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2648

 The DAC is supposed to run at <500mA so that battery combo would last a bit more than 7 hours.  That is less than ideal but the Meridian Explorer sounds like a fantastic $300 DAC portable or not, and I would love to have desktop sound on the go without buying the ibasso dx100. 
   
  I assume that one reason this DAC sounds so good over portable battery powered DAC's is because it is not restricted to their low power requirements  which is one reason I'm so intrigued by this idea.


----------



## plakat

Considering the hassles involved together with loosing the nice outer shell of the explorer -- I think, I'll stay with my Leckerton 
   
  I suespect the battery won't solve all connection problems with the iPad as I got different error messages when connecting directly vs. connecting through a powered hub: the latter would have satisfied the Explorers demand for current but the iPad did not accept it nevertheless.


----------



## crooner

Got the replacement Meridian Explorer in the mail today, via UPS 3 day Select. Came in large bubble wrap envelope in a factory sealed box. Need to break it in a bit for the next couple days. I will try it in my main rig on Thursday.


----------



## fatwok

why are they releasing a new product with mini usb instead of micro usb?


----------



## vikingboy

First Ive heard of micro usb being used on an explorer!? Where did you hear/see this?


----------



## mock-up

----
  thanks


----------



## jhwalker

Quote: 





vikingboy said:


> First Ive heard of micro usb being used on an explorer!? Where did you hear/see this?


 
  I think he was just commenting on the trend toward micro USB in the portable industry, in general, not that the ME had switched; IOW, why are they still using mini instead of micro in this day and age?


----------



## PhilW

Firmware update and windows driver update now available for explorer users!
   
  http://meridian-audio.com/en/collections/products/explorer-1000/4/support/


----------



## wfranklin

Just finished running the driver and firmware updates (PC, Win 7).  Smooth sailing, although you'll have to repeat the Sounds setup routine to get the configuration back if you're running hi-rez files.  I still haven't figured out why all lights are illuminated 100% of the time when 192/24 is selected, even if the source material is at a lower rez.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Is the update for the new version or the old?  I should have the new one soon.


----------



## Aerocraft67

Quote: 





wfranklin said:


> I still haven't figured out why all lights are illuminated 100% of the time when 192/24 is selected, even if the source material is at a lower rez.


 
   
  This is what I get when I set the Apple MIDI to 192 kHz and play from iTunes without using BitPerfect. When I use BitPerfect, Explorer emits the correct light signals for different resolutions.


----------



## jhwalker

Quote: 





aerocraft67 said:


> This is what I get when I set the Apple MIDI to 192 kHz and play from iTunes without using BitPerfect. When I use BitPerfect, Explorer emits the correct light signals for different resolutions.


 
  That's correct - in OS X + iTunes, whatever is set in Audio MIDI is used 100% of the time, regardless of the source material; IOW, iTunes + OS X will resample all your music to whatever is set in Audio MIDI for output.

 One of the purported advantages to some of the add-in players is to give the end user (via the add-in player) the option to set the sample rate to follow the source or resample to whatever rate you want, using whatever resampling options are provided via the player, etc. - i.e., bypassing the built-in OS X / Audio MIDI limitations.


----------



## Aerocraft67

Add-in players generate their own contribution to audio quality, but the main concern for me is just to get automatic output of the source's native sample rate, which is why I went with a basic player like BitPerfect. The Explorer instructions specify going into Audio MIDI to specify sample rate at initial set-up, but the add-on players take care of that automatically. Without an add-on player, using a fixed setting for a music file collection of uniform sample rate seems reasonable, but having the computer operating system resample to the highest common denominator in a collection containing different sample rates seems like an unfavorable step in delivering the bits to an outboard DAC. It's a bit confusing, but I guess you don't want to lard up the DAC set-up instructions with lots of contingencies.


----------



## GoSUV

Quote from Meridian's website on what the firmware update does:
   
  "Explorer Firmware v1349 offers a performance improvement for all operating systems – Macintosh, Linux and Windows. It improves control sensitivity at low volumes, and increases the maximum volume available from the Explorer, allowing increased signal levels when the Explorer is used with less sensitive headphones. The other outputs are not affected. The update also changes the way that the volume control is reported to the host computer, removing confusing channel controls and leaving only the master control."


----------



## bobeau

Just a FWIW, I updated my v2 ME with this and am not finding low volume sensitivity improved.  With my crazy sensitive 334s just 4-8 microclicks (1 or 2 full bars in OSX) can still get into too loud territory depending on the material.


----------



## RonnieBr

The low volume sensitivity change is working well for me with a V2 ME and Denon AH-D5000 headphones.  Before the update the max usable volume I could listen to was around 14 (out of 100) and now it's around 50.
   
  After I did the update I disconnected/reconnected the ME and then used the update tool to scan the ME to check the version had been upgraded.


----------



## bobeau

Hmm... I did the same thing, then rescanned after plugging back in and it confirmed the change.  BTW mine is on OSX w/ 64 steps.  I guess it doesn't affect the absolute lowest settings (in my case that maps more like 7% - 15%).  
   
  EDIT: Playing with it some more, my impression is perhaps step 1 may be considerably louder than it was stock but the gradations are producing smaller changes?  I tried pushing it to my threshold of pain and it was maybe at 5 full bars on an older recordings with minimal compression applied.  (20/64 steps).  It's hard to say, but before I may have gotten away with up to more like 4 to get that volume level.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

my replacement shipped and should arrive in a couple of days.  Can't wait!


----------



## Burju

Got my replacement.
First 3 hours listening, sounds metallicky on headphone out but volume level control expanded nicely, I could hear fine on 70% master volume control compared to always set for 100% on the original.

Oh we'll, more hours to listen, I guess

Cheers


----------



## ticos442

I got my Explorer replacement unit about a month ago - the sound is superb. I've been doing comparisons with both low res and high res music on my current desktop setup, which is a Centrance Dac Mini + V-LINK 192, versus the Meridian. The Meridian is far superior in musicality and accuracy and I could not be happier with the purchase. I also have a Dragonfly and the Meridian is superior in every way in my opinion.


----------



## Drewligarchy

Anyone think of using the explorer with something like this?
   
  http://www.tomshardware.com/news/acer-iconia-w3-windows-tablet,23298.html
   
  8 inch windows 8 tablet could make a cool, decently portable DAP running Jriver - also gets 8 hours a charge.
   
  Any reason this might not work?


----------



## estreeter

Really glad I've opted for the microStreamer - this thread has gone downhill in a big way since the output impedance issue became public. Personally, I need *24/192* like I need another week of Winter here in Oz ....


----------



## xenithon

Hi all. I have been out of the game for quite a while but am slowly getting back into it. I have an Heir 8A on order, and needed have recently sold my SACD player so am looking for a DAC for use with all my FLAC files. This seems to be a great option hence considering it; the only question I would have is if you would think it would be fine using the Explorer as both a USB DAC and an amp for the 8A, or to get the Explorer as a DAC and use it with a dedicated amp like the Heir Rendition 1?
   
  Cheers
  X


----------



## estreeter

My advice is to give it a few weeks with the onboard amp in the Explorer before you rush out and spend more money - you shouldnt allow anything in this thread to dissuade you from the reality that your own ears provide the only measurements that really matter. If you do opt for a dedicated amp further down the line, at least you will know how well the hype around a given DAC/amp matches your own experience.


----------



## duncanvdlinden

How can i check if I am going to get the V2 or de V1?
  Is there a way the shop where I am going to get the Meridian Explorer can check that?


----------



## Aerocraft67

Quote: 





xenithon said:


> I have an Heir 8A on order, and needed have recently sold my SACD player so am looking for a DAC for use with all my FLAC files. This seems to be a great option hence considering it; the only question I would have is if you would think it would be fine using the Explorer as both a USB DAC and an amp for the 8A, or to get the Explorer as a DAC and use it with a dedicated amp like the Heir Rendition 1?


 
   
  I'm sure the Explorer would do a servicable job of amplifying your 8.A. Given the level of your investment in the 8.A, you could also justify external amplification that's superior to what's in Explorer. But if you just add another portable amp, you have to wonder how much of an improvement you're going to get while making a redundant investment, and you'll be carrying around two amps, degrading the portability of your rig. If you were talking about a higher performance, non-portable desktop amp, that might make a more distinct and worthwhile performance improvement. Not to disparage the Rendition 1 in any way. And if you really wanted a supremely simple and portable USB DAC/amp sans 192 kHz capability, the Dragonfly is still a great choice.
   
  I use Explorer primarily as a DAC in a desktop rig, feeding Asgard 2 amp, driving desktop speakers and HD-650. For me, Explorer's on-board amp is a "nice to have" for the rare occasion I do some serious mobile listening (otherwise I rely on RE-400 and my iPhone for mobile, casual listening). In one sense, Explorer is just the best $300 DAC I could find. But DACs in this price range are hard to find without integrated amps, which kind of sets up your question. I guess my answer is that I think Explorer suits your IEMs, but you could justify better, but make sure you are indeed getting a substantially better amp if you go that route. Put another way, I'm not sure it makes much sense to go with separate DAC and amp for a truly mobile application, especially when the DAC already has an amp.


----------



## xenithon

Thanks very much Aerocraft - some good perspective on the situation. To be honest, I am not going to use it as a "portable" rig - just at home - so portability is not a major factor. I do like what I have read about the DAC section of the Explorer, which is what attracted me in the first place (together with the affordability for what you get). It is either that or the miniStreamer on my shortlist. So I will likely end up with one of them fulfilling both requirements (DAC/amp) at first, and if required at a later stage, getting a dedicated, appreciably better amp - desktop or otherwise.


----------



## ska-YJ




----------



## telecaster

This thread is pathetic from all points of view. The HDVD800/600 has 42 ohms output impedance.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





telecaster said:


> This thread is pathetic from all points of view. The HDVD800/600 has 42 ohms output impedance.


 
   
  And for many fullsize cans, _that wont be an issue_ - output impedance does become an issue for the owners of *sensitive IEMs*, a group much more likely to buy the Explorer than the HDVD thingamajig.


----------



## purrin

^ Yeah. Let me explain this again:
   

 If the impedance of a headphone or IEM is well behaved - fairly flat, then there will no changes in steady-state frequency response. However FR is not necessarily the end-all.
 If the nominal impedance of the headphone is well above that of the output impedance of the device (a general "rule" is transducer impedance > x5 output impedance of amp), there shouldn't be any problem. There is no requirement per-se that output impedance of amplifiers be zero or close to zero. But in general, the lower the better (for reasons which should be obvious by now: compatibility for a greater number of transducers.)
 The "issues" begin to arise when the output impedance gets closer to the nominal impedance of the transducer.
 If the transducer has a really screwy impedance curve, there will be be an effect on FR according to how screwy the impedance curve is and how poor the impedance mismatch is. For example, the UERM impedance curve is all over the place. It's nominally 16 ohms. The output impedance of the MEv1 was not even close or approaching the nominal 16 ohms of the UERM, it was _over _it at about 45. The resulted in an FR bump at 1kHz and severe treble roll-off. This combination was a disaster (unless one actually preferred the resulting coloration in sound.) Other IEMs with low nominal impedence, but different impedance curves may even sound brighter from the ME.
 Even if the transducer's impedance curve was fairly flat, as the output impedance of the device approaches or even exceeds the nominal impedance of the transducer, we will begin to heard softer transients, poor bass control, muddy bass, lushness, syrup, etc. However, this is not necessary a bad thing. Some listeners prefer this and this type of sound does tend to fit Meridian's house sound, at least for their DACs.
 The HDVD800 with its 42 ohm output impedance will not be an issue with the HD600/800 since those headphones have high nominal impedance over 300ohms. 300 is way more than 42x5. Not gonna be a problem. I would however hesitate to use the HDVD800 with an HE500 headphone which has a impedance of ~37 ohms.
 In the end, it doesn't matter if _you _like the resultant sonic changes (assuming impedance mismatch) even if they are not accurate. If you like how it sounds, then stick with the MEv1.
   
  Hopefully, this explanation is not too pathetic.


----------



## telecaster

Sensitive IEM are pretty all OK with integrated laptop soundcard, and don't need further amplifications... Having tried the HD650 on my laptop, the sound was anemic and seriously needed the explorer.
   
  That doesn't sounds pathetic but that is far from the original cabale tone that was going around here thx to the plotters.


----------



## Fidelity182

How much $ $ ?


----------



## kela66

Hey guys, 
   
  do you observe any differences/changes in sound reproduction (negative/positive) with firmware v1349?
   
  I would may imagine someone, but I am not sure.
   
  Is there a way to go back to firmware v1347?
   
  Regards 
  Frank


----------



## Leslie Dorner

Does this require ALSA driver version 1.0.23 or higher or is it 1.0.32 or higher? I checked with Ubuntu's ALSA version and it is 1.0.25 for Raring Ringtail and the forthcoming Saucy Salamander. According to the Meridian website, they list ALSA version 1.0.23 or higher. ALSA version 1.0.32 is not even mentioned on the ALSA website yet. I'm confused because people are saying that Meridian has a typo error, but I doubt that is the case because the ALSA website does not list anything higher than version 1.0.27 which is in development right now.
   
  Has anyone tried the Meridian Explorer with Ubuntu 13.04 64 bit Raring Ringtail? Do I have to use alsamixer in the terminal by pressing F6 to select the device and set the volume level? How do I configure Clementine or Rythmbox or DeadBeef to use the Meridian Explorer?
   
  Should I consider the CEntrance DACPort as an alternative? I know it will work with the Raring Ringtail, but it does not offer 24 bit 192 kHz resolution.


----------



## PhilW

New Meridian Product. Director USB DAC.


----------



## xenithon

Interesting - not finding any information on where this departs from the Explorer. In other words, what's the difference / benefit etc.


----------



## PhilW

Upsampling and apodizing is the main difference, along with the benefit of being able to accept toslink and coaxial inputs alongside the standard USB that the Explorer had.


----------



## cconnaker

Hi Guys - The Press embargo just ended at 7:00AM Eastern. Try another Google search and you should fine more reviews and information about the new Director.


----------



## PhilW

Meridian Website : http://www.meridian-audio.com/en/collections/products/director/37/


----------



## Steven Stone1

Hello All,
   
  My review is on my site - http://audiophilereview.com/cd-dac-digital/the-new-meridian-director.html
   
  I think Meridian will sell a few...


----------



## estreeter

Apols, Steven and others - felt this deserved its own thread:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/675575/meridian-director-dac-699-usd-usb-spdif-toslink-24-192
   
  Back to the Explorer


----------



## Niacchus

Hi, im new to this board and also only just starting to get into this hobby. To start I recently bought a pair of Sennheiser HD598 and playing through my macbook pro with iTunes. Was thinking of getting the ME as the next step. Just wondering if anyone else has used the HD598 with the Explorer? Thanks


----------



## LFC_SL

That is a very big price. A lot more than Fostex A3. I know the small size of Dacport, Dragonfly etc is part of the sell but all the same.


----------



## sling5s

Anyone successful in using their meridian explorer with powered usb hub and ipad?


----------



## sling5s

Never mind, got it working on ipad.  yeah!


----------



## Lan647

Bought me one of these from Custom Cable UK. Wonderful store with great people and wonderful service, highly recommended! 

 I do notice an improvement with my Momentum compared to running straight from the iMac headphone out. Not huge, but it's there. This DAC has exactly the sound I want; uncolored, smooth and rich yet airy and detailed. No sense of brightness or grain. Great product, great value.


----------



## sling5s

What is the affect after burn in.  I believe it recommends 300 hours.  I find the ME very smooth but the treble sometimes seems more upfront than the midrange.
  So far enjoying more than the microstreamer.  It's does spacial and instrument separation very well.


----------



## mfaoro

I burned mine in with Pink Noise (see the Pink Noise posting) and I feel like it became more coherent and accurate - that is the instruments were in the right place and the soundstage opened up. It was a pretty major difference for me.  I also added a Moon Audio USB cable about the same time that made a big difference over the stock. I have LCD3s and run the Explorer from a Mac Mini.


----------



## DoomForce

Noobish question here guys: What is the best way to connect a pair of active speakers to the Explorer, through the line out (analogue) or through using the digital optical output?


----------



## flaco

if you connect them through digital optical out you bypass the intern dac. since you paid 300 for it you should make use of the dac and use the line out or the volume out. I use the line out ( it is also a digital out) for my headphone amplifier and the volume out for my active speakers. It works really well...


----------



## frankrondaniel

Quote: 





flaco said:


> if you connect them through digital optical out you bypass the intern dac. since you paid 300 for it you should make use of the dac and use the line out or the volume out. I use the line out ( it is also a digital out) for my headphone amplifier and the volume out for my active speakers. It works really well...


 

 I use mine in a similar manner - line out to my headphone amp.  Works great.


----------



## DoomForce

Thanks for the input! That's what I wanted to confirm, that the mini-Toslink digital out is also a normal line out.


----------



## DoomForce

Guys, has anyone bought a USB cable from custom-cable.co.uk to pair it with the Explorer, that turned out to be a worthy investment? Please throw some suggestions


----------



## HiFiGuy528

"The HDVD800 with its 42 ohm output impedance" whoa! that's high.


----------



## sling5s

Anyone having problems with their Mac recognizing the Meridian Explorer Dac.  Sometimes it will just not show up.


----------



## Lan647

Quote: 





sling5s said:


> Anyone having problems with their Mac recognizing the Meridian Explorer Dac.  Sometimes it will just not show up.


 
   
  I've had no issues thus far.


----------



## BalletJH

Hi everyone. I happen to have $300 at hand and am considering buying this. A lot of people have mentioned that the original version of the Explorer has a high output impedance but the revised version has a lower one around 16 ohms. I am just wondering is this the revised version (link below) ? If not, what is the best US website to buy the revised version of the Explorer?
   
  http://www.ttvjaudio.com/A_Real_Meridian_DAC_p/mer0000001.htm
   
  I am getting my clear tune CT200 pretty soon. It is sensitive and has an impedance of 17.5 ohms. Is that going to pair well with the revised version of Explorer? If not, are there any other DAC's around $300 that has a better sound quality or equivalent? Either portable or non-portable is fine.
   
  https://cleartunemonitors.com/CT200/#Specifications


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





balletjh said:


> Hi everyone. I happen to have $300 at hand and am considering buying this. A lot of people have mentioned that the original version of the Explorer has a high output impedance but the revised version has a lower one around 16 ohms. I am just wondering is this the revised version (link below) ? If not, what is the best US website to buy the revised version of the Explorer?
> 
> http://www.ttvjaudio.com/A_Real_Meridian_DAC_p/mer0000001.htm
> 
> ...


 
   
  The revised is 5 ohm output impedance and is probably the only thing you can purchase at this point.  The revision happened back around late March I believe, so it's probably a rare retailer which hasn't been able to clear stock since then. 
   
  FWIW, I'll be posting a FS on mine pretty soon (prefer the Microstreamer when using the BTG cable on my 334s) and it's definitely a revised unit as I sent my original in to Meridian for the update.  Just in case you wanted to save some cash.


----------



## nicoch46

buy the arcam ones ,same dac ,better (discrete) output stage ,half price ! the explorer have a little better usb interface


----------



## plakat

Quote: 





sling5s said:


> Anyone having problems with their Mac recognizing the Meridian Explorer Dac.  Sometimes it will just not show up.


 
   
  Could be a problem with the USB-cable. Does it show up if you wiggle the connector and/or the cable (either on the Macs side or the Explorers end)? I had a similar issue with my Leckerton and was able to resolve it by replacing the cable (no, nothing fancy, any working cable will do).


----------



## sling5s

plakat said:


> Could be a problem with the USB-cable. Does it show up if you wiggle the connector and/or the cable (either on the Macs side or the Explorers end)? I had a similar issue with my Leckerton and was able to resolve it by replacing the cable (no, nothing fancy, any working cable will do).




I end up having to restart my imac. Could be my imac. Don't know.


----------



## bobeau

I'm on 10.8 and do have issues reconnecting - what I do is go to Preferences -> Sound and select the Meridian Explorer, which may not be selected.


----------



## sling5s

Its selected on my preferences but just does not work sometimes until I restart my iMac.  Weird.


----------



## sovereignty68

has anyone got a chance to compare ME to HiFace DAC? HiFace DAC (orange) is selling at same cost as ME.


----------



## BalletJH

sovereignty68 said:


> has anyone got a chance to compare ME to HiFace DAC? HiFace DAC (orange) is selling at same cost as ME.


 
   
  [size=small]ProgJazz Andrew[/size][size=small] on Amazon says:[/size]
   
  [size=small]"By now I have three competing compact USB DACs: AQ Dragonfly ($250), Meridian Explorer ($300), and M2Tech hiFace DAC ($300). Each is a fine product for what it is claimed to do (except for the deceiving appearance of M2Tech - see below). Sonically, Dragonfly is falling behind the rest. Of the other two, when used as a line level DAC driving a regular stereo system, the difference was like splitting hair. The following key words may give you an idea about what the differences are:[/size]
  [size=small][/size]
 [size=small]Meridian Explorer: smooth, rich, bigger sound stage, deeper bass[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]M2Tech hiFace: clarity, better definition, neutral, transparent[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small][/size]
 [size=small]Again, these words are just relative terms between the two. It doesn't mean that the M2Tech is harsh, or the Meridian blurry. I could choose either one for the line level performance alone.[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small][/size]
 [size=small]However, there is one big caveat for the M2Tech. If you're like me, by the look of the product thinking that this was made for your earphones, think again! Unlike the Dragonfly, the M2Tech does not have a built-in headphone amp, so it cannot drive usual earphones/headphones to a sufficiently loud level. It was not sufficient for my B&W C5, P3, and Sennheiser PMX-685, none of which can be considered a difficult load. After communicating with M2Tech, I learned about this and also found out that it is indeed stated in the manual. But when you buy the product, the box contains the bare unit only without any documentation! M2Tech should make this point very clear on the product front page. If the product was designed to be used as a line stage DAC for the stereo system, why does it have to be packaged in such a tiny dongle? IMO the packaging is clearly misleading and should be regarded as an ill-conceived design.[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small][/size]
 [size=small]In summary, sonically it is a fine product for a line level DAC in its price range. If your main use is to drive a line level pre/integrated amp, by all means give it a try. If you intend to use it as a line level as well as for headphone listening, Meridian Explorer for the same price will give you the same level of quality (yet slightly different) sound, and it also has a separate headphone amp to drive your earphones loud. If the Meridian is still too bulky and cumbersome and you just need a cool tiny solution (with fancy color changes), the Dragonfly will drive your headphones to the maximum loudness with rich and full sound (still high quality if not as refined compared to the other two).[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small][/size]
 [size=small]All things considered, the hiFace DAC serves as an example of bad engineering design, as there is no real merit for such a compact packaging unless it is capable of portable headphone listening. To be used as a line level DAC exclusively, the hiFace DAC is a competent, but not much superior, performer among its peers, at least not to the level to justify its price compared to so many other full function DACs with a dedicated power supply with more inputs, and even with a volume control (iFi, Micromega, Schiit, Musical Fidelity, etc. - this is a competitive market!)."[/size]


----------



## sling5s

with ios 7, iphone now works with dacs like ipad.  It works with meridian explorer.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

sling5s said:


> with ios 7, iphone now works with dacs like ipad.  It works with meridian explorer.


 
  
 Where did you get the Mini USB to Lightning cable?  Is it MFI certified?


----------



## sling5s

I have iPhone 4 with 30 pin.  I got it at Apple store.
 I also have iPad with lightening which worked before.  But now the iPhone works too.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

they sell a 30 pin to Mini USB cable?  Can you tell me the brand or a link?


----------



## GoSUV

I read this with great interest. Do you need the Camera Connector kit or just a Dock connector-to-MiniB USB cable? Where might I find such a cable? Does it work without a powered USB hub, like an iPad would need from the USB Camera Connector?


----------



## sling5s

Yeah...you need the Camera Connector Kit, Dr. Botte T3Hub and USB Powered Hub.  You need all three to make it work.  But the iPhone does work with CCK now work with the iOS 7.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

sling5s said:


> Yeah...you need the Camera Connector Kit, Dr. Botte T3Hub and USB Powered Hub.  You need all three to make it work.  But the iPhone does work with CCK now work with the iOS 7.




I just tried it with my iPhone 5 running iOS 7 and Lightning to USB adaptor. It didn't work.


----------



## sling5s

As I said, you have to add the Dr. Bott T3Hub.  I don't know why but there must be another non-power USB device for it to work.  The Dr. Bott T3hub works to fool the iOS to think that it's not drawing the power.


hifiguy528 said:


> I just tried it with my iPhone 5 running iOS 7 and Lightning to USB adaptor. It didn't work.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

sling5s said:


>


 
  
 Having a powered USB hub may inject noise into the system and also makes the setup kinda pointless because it's no longer portable.  I guess I'll just stick with the Apogee ONE for iOS.  That unit sounds amazing already and it runs off a pair of AA batteries.


----------



## Lan647

Just did an A-B comparison between straight out of the iPhone 5 headphone jack and the Meridian connected to my iMac, both running Spotify Premium. Used the KEF M500s.

 No sonic difference whatsoever.


----------



## sling5s

The Meridian Explorer somehow sounds like it slightly filters the upper midrange and treble to sound smoother.   It's great with Grado's.  It takes off the edge on the Grado's.  But sometimes  with other headphones, it sounds slow and overly warm and congested.


----------



## tattoou2

armaegis said:


> Interesting. Reminds me a lot of the Dr. Dac Nano (aka JAVS Nano S or V).


 
 LOL!  Was about to say the very same.  Definitely interested.


----------



## zilch0md

sling5s said:


> The Meridian Explorer somehow sounds like it slightly filters the upper midrange and treble to sound smoother.   It's great with Grado's.  It takes off the edge on the Grado's.  But sometimes  with other headphones, it sounds slow and overly warm and congested.


 
  
 That's a great micro-review - it rings true with a consensus of so many other impressions I've read (not having heard the Explorer myself...)
  
 Mike


----------



## bcwang

bcwang said:


> - Does it support iPad through CCK?
> - What is headphone out output impedance?
> - What is the max/average power draw from the usb bus?
> 
> ...


 
 Looks like I can answer some of these myself.
  
 -headphone out output impedance is 5.25ohm for the revised version as measured by a couple of sources.
  
 -yes it hisses with sensitive IEMs, I can easily hear hiss even at 0 volume with the SE530
  
 -the volume steps with the latest v1349 firmware work well even with the sensitive SE530, but the hiss makes it really not a good headphone to use it with
  
 -yes it works with the iPad through CCK, and also on IOS7 iphones/ipads with the CCK.  You need a powered hub in between to make it work though.
  
 -seems a windows driver is necessary or it won't work at all, luckily all other OS it just works.
  
 I still don't don't know the max/avg power draw so I can figure out how power efficient it is when used with a laptop.


----------



## sling5s

bcwang said:


> Looks like I can answer some of these myself.
> 
> -headphone out output impedance is 5.25ohm for the revised version as measured by a couple of sources.
> 
> ...


 
 I don't hear any hiss at all with my JH13pro.  And it's a pretty sensitive IEM.  
 Edit: With some recordings, the hiss is coming not from Meridian Explorer but from the recording itself.  Like U2 October recording or Arcade Fire Suburban War hisses because it's the way the recordings itself sound.  But for example, Talking Heads, The Lady Don't Mind,  or Heart, What About Love? has no hiss at all because it's not in the recordings. At least this is what I have discovered. 
 I really like the Meridian Explorer, it doesn't get enough praise here because of the first batch impedance mishap.  
 But than I do like warm and smooth dac and amps.


----------



## dcginc

Today I successfully got my Meridian Explorer to work w my iPhone via the cck.

I cannot seem to get it to run at 192k even when running a 192k high res albums. I am using ampilflac app to do this. I am basing this on the fact that only one of the three lights turn on

Not sure what's going on.. Thoughts welcome 

Fixed it, setting on the app!.


----------



## bcwang

I was able to measure that the explorer draws ~130ma when idle, ~150ma when playing 96khz and lower, and ~160ma when playing 192khz. This was regardless of headphone volume setting. This is useful to help you see how much battery life impact when using this portably. For reference, the ODAC draws ~40ma in any mode. 

160ma x 5v = 800mw. 

I wonder how much the hrt microstreamer draws. I've seen it working directly powered by an iPhone 5. I'm guessing this isn't going to be possible with the explorer.


----------



## TheGrumpyOldMan

Interested in this as a portable solution with laptop. Sorry for not wading through the ginormous thread, but would much appreciate a brief reply to these:
 - Can somebody confirm this one works with the -latest- 2013 Macbook Air/Pro which only have USB 3 ports (coming form the AK100 where this is not the case)
 - Is there a way to tell when buying one if it's the V2 model (serial No.?) and if possible even before having it shipped?
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Painterspal

thegrumpyoldman said:


> Interested in this as a portable solution with laptop. Sorry for not wading through the ginormous thread, but would much appreciate a brief reply to these:
> - Can somebody confirm this one works with the -latest- 2013 Macbook Air/Pro which only have USB 3 ports (coming form the AK100 where this is not the case)
> - Is there a way to tell when buying one if it's the V2 model (serial No.?) and if possible even before having it shipped?
> 
> Cheers!


 

 I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't work with your Macbook, it certainly works with mine just fine. I don't think there's any way of knowing via serial numbers. When I had mine replaced by Meridian there didn't seem any difference (apart from the sound) and the serial number seemed pretty random. I'd assume all units for sale now are the latest version.
  
 I've moved up to a different DAC now so mine is for sale on the classifieds if you're interested - guaranteed latest version!


----------



## DoomForce

thegrumpyoldman said:


> Interested in this as a portable solution with laptop. Sorry for not wading through the ginormous thread, but would much appreciate a brief reply to these:
> - Can somebody confirm this one works with the -latest- 2013 Macbook Air/Pro which only have USB 3 ports (coming form the AK100 where this is not the case)
> - Is there a way to tell when buying one if it's the V2 model (serial No.?) and if possible even before having it shipped?
> 
> Cheers!




It definitely works with the latest MacBooks, I am using it straight out of a mid2013 Air currently. 

Your retailer should be able to provide you with information about it being a V2 for your peace of mind, however all units sold currently should be a v2


----------



## TheGrumpyOldMan

Thanks guys!


----------



## jakja83

What headphones would work with this product, and would be appropriate price/performance wise?
  
 How powerful is it?


----------



## jhwalker

jakja83 said:


> What headphones would work with this product, and would be appropriate price/performance wise?
> 
> How powerful is it?


 
 Here are the measurements as published by Stereophile:
  
 http://www.stereophile.com/content/meridian-explorer-usb-da-processorheadphone-amplifier-measurements?destination=node%2F226602
  
 In short, v2 of the device (all current devices in the market will be v2) has a low output impedance, which means good power for all headphones, from IEMs up to audiophile quality.  Mine drives my Beyerdynamics DT-1350s, KEF M500s, V-Moda M100s, and vSonic GR07s beautifully, with maximum "bearable" volume at about 50%.  HOWEVER - I would not recommend this headphone amp (alone) for high-end headphones like Sennheiser HD600-HD800s, HiFiMan HE-500-6Es, etc. - they require more "umph* than this device can deliver.  Even at almost full volume (-1db), my HE-500s are not driven well.  I will be adding an additional headphone amp or buying a new integrated DAC / amp soon for use at home - then my Meridian Explorer will be dedicated to travel use only


----------



## HiFiGuy528

The current Explorer does wonders on the new Sony XBA-H1 & H3.


----------



## Scorpiolol

sling5s said:


> The Meridian Explorer somehow sounds like it slightly filters the upper midrange and treble to sound smoother.   It's great with Grado's.  It takes off the edge on the Grado's.  But sometimes  with other headphones, it sounds slow and overly warm and congested.


 
 Totally agreed...


----------



## Lan647

scorpiolol said:


> Totally agreed...


 
  
 Totally not-agreed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It's just that many DACs are bright, IMO.


----------



## nicoch46

the measurements  published by Stereophile we can see bad performance on digital noise garbage....only -55db


----------



## jhwalker

nicoch46 said:


> the measurements  published by Stereophile we can see bad performance on digital noise garbage....only -55db


 
 1st harmonic (@~25k) on 16-bit output only, headphone output only - audible in any way?
  
 "Even without considering that it has to operate on the 5V supply available from the USB bus, Meridian's Explorer offers generally superb measured performance.—*John Atkinson"*


----------



## nicoch46

you need to look at stopband noise ie how the filter cut the digital noise out  , this ringing is very bad for some people
  
 only -55db , good dac have min 80db  ,100db are the goal.....


----------



## nicoch46

Stereophile :
 "It has less stop-band rejection than a conventional filter at higher frequencies: the red trace in fig.2, which is the wideband spectrum of a full-scale, 44.1kHz-sampled tone at 19.1kHz, shows that the 25kHz aliasing product is suppressed by only 55dB or so."


----------



## GoSUV

Ok, numbers are one thing, but what do these numbers do in real practice?
  
 How relevant are they in real life use of this product, by playing music rather than test tones?
  
 How will the sonics be affected, compared to other products with "better" numbers? How does "digital ringing" transfer to bad sonics?
  
 Considering that the Explorer operates on the 5V USB bus power, do these numbers change if a better linear supply is used?
  
 Do similar products who also use USB bus power exhibit similar results, or is the Explorer significantly, measurably, and listenably worse?


----------



## nicoch46

I not speak about sound,  I speak that your brain are exposed to digital noise, not a good thinks !
 for a lot people is a problem ,  google is your friend ......
  
 this is nothing to do to usb that is good on this dac ,is the use of second filter that bur braun dac have in hw  probabily this have more smooth sound but with the tradeoff digital noise  
  
 the chips dac are commercial and cheaper one , the headamp is opamp and the price is very high , my opinion is that the arcam at half price have the right price, same dac chip and discrete ie better headamp  ,not the same usb but decent one.


----------



## nicoch46

good info http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/documents/uploads/misc/en/Ultra_High_Performance_DAC_whitepaper.pdf


----------



## DoomForce

Hey guys,
  
 I have a pretty big issue on Mac OSX with the Explorer. Every time I unplug it, the sound on Chrome gets totally distorted when played on the speakers. It fixes if you quit Chrome and rerun it, but still, that's not something I want to do all the time. Has anyone had this issue and knows a workaround?


----------



## ticos442

Does it happen only when playing sound from Chrome?  Have you tested with other apps like iTunes, etc.?


----------



## DoomForce

ticos442 said:


> Does it happen only when playing sound from Chrome?  Have you tested with other apps like iTunes, etc.?


 
 Yep, I think it only happens with Chrome, and then again not always. I'll come back after I have looked into it some more. Nothing to scare people so far.
  
 Hey guys, do you think the Explorer would behave properly if plugged in on a powered USB hub (e.g. from Anker), or would you keep it separate?


----------



## ticos442

If you are running multiple apps and other devices, I would keep it separate in order to avoid any possible glitches.  This of course depends on many factors like the speed of your PC, how many programs you are running, etc.
  
 I have a fairly dedicated computer (Mac Mini) just for music purposes and plug the ME directly to the USB port and have not experienced any issues at all.  I actually recently switched to the Explorer older brother, the Director, which is truly exceptional.
  
 I do use a USB powered hub in my mobile configuration with the Explorer, attached to my iPad through the CCK (separate thread on that configuration)
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/625493/ipad-with-24-bit-files-high-storage-capacity-portability-bit-perfect-configurations-that-work/105#post_10040125


----------



## alejandro7

Copy that AtillatheHun....lets just have a great portable dac without a built-in amp. I have glorious NICO V4 amp ready for great dac....rather not get a NANO...but may.  alex


----------



## herbigava

I just purchased the explorer and have a question about it. If you use the toslink out put in my case going into my Yamaha receiver. Is the receiver sill taking that signal and converting it? I guess I don't know how toslink works. Excuse me if this is the wrong place to post.


----------



## alejandro7

Probably not the wrong place herb, but def the wrong guy. Frustrated musician who flunked algebra. Seriously I think I'm here to learn the quickest way to audio nirvana via HPs. So far I am blessed with finding the Little Dot 1+ for main system via Meridian 508.24 cdp and HD650s or 420s through desktop aesus card and the V4. Certainly one of the tech minded can answer your toslink question. But your question does make me wonder about improvements to performance after that card if I get the Explorer or a "Dragonfly" type dac and run it in front of V4. Dragonfly, nicoch46, jh and others probably can weigh in easily on your question.  cheers


----------



## netdog

Having owned this now since its release, I have to say that I am thoroughly under-whelmed by its overall performance as a dedicated DAC.
  
 Recordings sound rather lifeless, with a lack of openness, a compressed soundstage and a somewhat muted high end and attack.
  
 Using ALAC files served by a Mac Mini into a Rega Brio-R and B&W CM1s.  When A/B'd against a 10 year-old 3D Labs CD player, it wasn't even close.
  
 Buyer beware.


----------



## alejandro7

Thank you netdog. I have a Meridian 24 bit Player for my powered 650s setup through LD1+. I just want a dac I can take mobile with V4 hp amp...and I don't want a dac that has an amp built in! Why pay for THAT when I have what I think is a bitch of a powerful amp with which I can plop on a Nano and a Fio out connector. I'd rather not get an apple player as part of my mobile setup. Thanks for your observation on the Meridian unit. I think the Dragonfly is likewise over stated and over rated.  Cheers,  Alex


----------



## frozst

I'm thinking about buying the Meridian Explorer but I've been reading that it's quite noisy with low impedance earphones. Has it been addressed?
  
 I own Westone W40 and Alessandro MS2i, both a 32 ohms impedance...


----------



## ticos442

frozst said:


> I'm thinking about buying the Meridian Explorer but I've been reading that it's quite noisy with low impedance earphones. Has it been addressed?
> 
> I own Westone W40 and Alessandro MS2i, both a 32 ohms impedance...


 
 The very first batch of Meridian Explorers did have an impedance issue, but this was addressed shortly after release with the newer versions.  You just have to make sure that when you buy it, they send you the latest ones, and also apply the firmware update and you'll be fine.  I use the Explorer with my Ultrasone8 headhphones (30 ohms) and there is no noise issue at all.


----------



## frozst

Thanks! I will go for it

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


----------



## LAmitchell

.....after having that Dragonfly for the past 13 months, my ears are so RELIEVED to hear the Explorer... just got it last week, so I understand that I'm in the honeymoon phase.....
  
  
 really enjoying the roundedness non-edginess to it, and I don't think they are messing with the treble in order to achieve it.


----------



## doraymon

I received my Explorer yesterday and I use it connected it to my Macbook Pro and Sennheiser HD650. I can't stop listening music since then. It's a real pleasure!
  
 Don't ask me to describe it's sound in detail because I would not be able. I can just say that the explorer is a pleasure listen, even for hours... Basses are rich but not exaggerated, sound is detailed and clear.
  
 I am impressed by it's minimalistic design and the construction screams quality in every detail. It's light (50grams!) and really portable.
  
 I am confused about some negative posts regarding the Explorer's SQ in this thread. Maybe different setup, maybe different tastes. But I think everybody will agree that this piece of kit is turning you laptop into a real hifi.
  
 So far, very well spent money, IMO!
  
 EDIT: forgot to write that I'm playing music with Audirvana Plus and the Explorer is compatible with Audirvana's Integer Mode, which delivers the best possible SQ for this player. Sweeeeeet!


----------



## LAmitchell

doraymon said:


> I received my Explorer yesterday and I use it connected it to my Macbook Pro and Sennheiser HD650. I can't stop listening music since then. It's a real pleasure!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Glad to hear it sounds good with the HD650, been wanting to get a pair of those but didn't know what amp to get, sounds like I can just use my Explorer....awesome!
  
  
 Yeah Doraymon, I know what you mean about trying to describe the sound of it. Definitely something special... for me it's almost like it just oozes out (not to say its slow though), and it wraps around the notes so that they are more realistic sounding to me.


----------



## doraymon

lamitchell said:


> Glad to hear it sounds good with the HD650, been wanting to get a pair of those but didn't know what amp to get, sounds like I can just use my Explorer....awesome!


 
 Before buying anything else try the Explorer. I was a bit sceptical about the low power headphone output, but I can tell you that I reach the "discomfort" threshold before pushing the volume to max, which is ok!
  
 Obviously there is much room of improvement if you buy a dedicated amp with better specs, but as I said check the Explorer first. Maybe you don't need anything else.


----------



## DieselTech

I have been listening to my meridian explorer for about a month now.  I can say that, my 2009 sony vaio cw beats the meridian explorer.  Even my 2006 sound blaster x-fi titanium sound card on my desktop beats the meridian.  With that said, the meridian explorer does sound better than my 2013 macbook pro (haswell).  Is it worth $300?  No.  I haven't sold my sony vaio cw because I still listen to music on it with my ATH-A900.
  
 The meridian explorer sounds like it has a filter on it.  Music notes and voices just aren't as crystal clear as my sony and desktop.  I am hoping for someone to develop a dac that beats my old systems.  Then I will be happy with my macbook pro.  Until then...


----------



## doraymon




----------



## L0SLobos

dieseltech said:


> I have been listening to my meridian explorer for about a month now.  I can say that, my 2009 sony vaio cw beats the meridian explorer.  Even my 2006 sound blaster x-fi titanium sound card on my desktop beats the meridian.  With that said, the meridian explorer does sound better than my 2013 macbook pro (haswell).  Is it worth $300?  No.  I haven't sold my sony vaio cw because I still listen to music on it with my ATH-A900.
> 
> The meridian explorer sounds like it has a filter on it.  Music notes and voices just aren't as crystal clear as my sony and desktop.  I am hoping for someone to develop a dac that beats my old systems.  Then I will be happy with my macbook pro.  Until then...


 
 Have you tried the AudioQuest Dragonfly yet? With the recent update to 1.2 and a price drop from $250 to $150 there's simply no excuse for not getting one; it is probably the best portable USB DAC in its price range. The Meridian Explorer is really overrated and the only reason it even costs that much is because of the brand name/prestige. If you're really in the market for a portable dac in $300 price, I'd suggest buying the Resonessence Labs Herus- it offers a lot of features and supreme build quality for its price range including DSD 128, DXD 384, a better integrated amp and solid CNC-milled case.


----------



## doraymon

l0slobos said:


> The Meridian Explorer is really overrated and the only reason it even costs that much is because of the brand name/prestige.


 
 You say that because you had the possibility to directly compare it to others like the Herus and Dragonfly?
  
 I am very happy with my Explorer so far, but my comment is irrelevant as this is the only portable DAC I ever heard. The only comparison I can do is with the built in DAC of my Macbook Pro, and obviously the comparison doesn't even stand!
 I agree though that 300 Eur/$ is a premium price for a portable DAC. Is it worth it? I don't know, I will tell when I will do comparisons.


----------



## DieselTech

I wish I could try out the dragonfly and herus.


----------



## L0SLobos

doraymon said:


> You say that because you had the possibility to directly compare it to others like the Herus and Dragonfly?
> 
> I am very happy with my Explorer so far, but my comment is irrelevant as this is the only portable DAC I ever heard. The only comparison I can do is with the built in DAC of my Macbook Pro, and obviously the comparison doesn't even stand!
> I agree though that 300 Eur/$ is a premium price for a portable DAC. Is it worth it? I don't know, I will tell when I will do comparisons.


 
 I do, actually. I previously owned the Meridian Explorer after reading all the hype about it (ordered it on Amazon). Unfortunately I returned it after 25 days as it failed to live up to my expectations. The bass was muddy compared to the AQ Dragonfly, not as crisp or punchy. The level of detail and sonic imaging was very inferior to to the similarly priced Resonessence Labs Herus, which offers a much better dac, higher output int. amp and high resolution features. Perhaps if it was priced competitively at ~$200 it would be worth a buy since it does include support for 192khz over the Dragonfly's 96khz. However its pricing is much closer to the Herus and when compared side by side to the Herus it simply does not offer enough value to justify keeping it.


----------



## jhwalker

l0slobos said:


> I do, actually. I previously owned the Meridian Explorer after reading all the hype about it (ordered it on Amazon). Unfortunately I returned it after 25 days as it failed to live up to my expectations. The bass was muddy compared to the AQ Dragonfly, not as crisp or punchy. The level of detail and sonic imaging was very inferior to to the similarly priced Resonessence Labs Herus, which offers a much better dac, higher output int. amp and high resolution features. Perhaps if it was priced competitively at ~$200 it would be worth a buy since it does include support for 192khz over the Dragonfly's 96khz. However its pricing is much closer to the Herus and when compared side by side to the Herus it simply does not offer enough value to justify keeping it.


 
 I feel exactly the opposite.  
  
 I have both the Dragonfly and the Explorer, and the difference is very large:  the Explorer has a much more pleasant, musical sound.  The Dragonfly sounds good if you don't compare it to anything else :/  but compared to the Explorer, the sound is thin, splatty, and grating.  
  
 IMO.
  
 Only reason I haven't gotten rid of the Dragonfly is "who would buy it"?  I have it thrown into my laptop case as an emergency backup in case something happens to the Explorer.


----------



## L0SLobos

jhwalker said:


> I feel exactly the opposite.
> 
> I have both the Dragonfly and the Explorer, and the difference is very large:  the Explorer has a much more pleasant, musical sound.  The Dragonfly sounds good if you don't compare it to anything else :/  but compared to the Explorer, the sound is thin, splatty, and grating.
> 
> ...


 
 Did you bother reading my whole post carefully at all? I also compared it to the Resonessence Labs Herus whose price is much closer (the Meridian Explorer is twice the price of the Dragonfly, why the hell would you bother comparing them on equal standing) and the Herus is a much superior product. Oh and not to mention the output impedance on the Explorer is much too high to be used by sensitive iem's >40 ohms without extreme hissing and distortion. Meanwhile I can enjoy the Herus with any headphones with its whisper quiet 0.2 ohm impedance.
  
 I have updated my sig with info from my profile page so people can see exactly what gear I am comparing to.


----------



## jhwalker

l0slobos said:


> Did you bother reading my whole post carefully at all? I also compared it to the Resonessence Labs Herus whose price is much closer (the Meridian Explorer is twice the price of the Dragonfly, why the hell would you bother comparing them on equal standing) and the Herus is a much superior product. Oh and not to mention the output impedance on the Explorer is much too high to be used by sensitive iem's >40 ohms without extreme hissing and distortion. Meanwhile I can enjoy the Herus with any headphones with its whisper quiet 0.2 ohm impedance.
> 
> I have updated my sig with info from my profile page so people can see exactly what gear I am comparing to.


 
 Of course I read your whole post - how else would I have commented on it?
  
 I did not comment on the Herus at all, because I don't have one - duh.  I *did* comment on your comparison of the Explorer with the Dragonfly because I do have both, and my opinion is the opposite of yours.
  
 And the originally high output impedance of the Explorer was modified many months ago - it is now 5 ohms.  Still high vs. the 0.7 of the Dragonfly and the 0.2 of the Herus, but 10x better than the original (ridiculously high) 48 ohms.
  
 In any case, I'm sure the Herus is wonderful and I wish I had one.  Meanwhile, I enjoy the Explorer and much prefer it vs. the Dragonfly.


----------



## L0SLobos

jhwalker said:


> Of course I read your whole post - how else would I have commented on it?
> 
> I did not comment on the Herus at all, because I don't have one - duh.  I *did* comment on your comparison of the Explorer with the Dragonfly because I do have both, and my opinion is the opposite of yours.
> 
> ...


 
 Point taken. Audio is subjective and the fact that you much prefer the Explorer to the Dragonfly is your freedom and right. However, I am merely stating that performance per dollar, the latter offers more than the former. In addition, to those people who are in the market for a portable usb DAC and are willing to pay 300 euros, I will point them towards the Herus instead of the Explorer as it offers so much more for the same price; the Herus effectively makes all other portable usb dac's obsolete with its plethora of high end features.


----------



## DieselTech

jhwalker, you said that the meridian now supports 5 ohms?  I just bought my meridian explorer a little over 5 weeks ago from meridian-audio.  I think that they would send me the latest updated device.  I get hissing on my in-ear ear phones (ckm500 16 ohms) when plugged into my meridian.  
  
 I dont hear the hissing on my headphones (ath-a900) which is rated at 40 ohms.
  
 Could it be that they sent me an old hardware?  Anyone else experiencing hissing on in-ear ear phones?


----------



## doraymon

dieseltech said:


> jhwalker, you said that the meridian now supports 5 ohms?  I just bought my meridian explorer a little over 5 weeks ago from meridian-audio.  I think that they would send me the latest updated device.  I get hissing on my in-ear ear phones (ckm500 16 ohms) when plugged into my meridian.
> 
> I dont hear the hissing on my headphones (ath-a900) which is rated at 40 ohms.
> 
> Could it be that they sent me an old hardware?  Anyone else experiencing hissing on in-ear ear phones?


 
 I use the Explorer with Sennheiser HD650 (over-ear, 300 Ohm), Sennheiser PX 200-IIi (on-ear, 32 Ohm), B&W C5 (in-ear, 32 Ohm).
 I am not experiencing any hissing whatsoever with these three headphones.
  
 My suggestion is to write to Meridian immediately mentioning the serial number of your Explorer and complaining about the hissing. I have always read good things about the Meridian customer care, they should take proper care of you...
  
 EDIT: I tried also with an older pair of in-ear Sennheiseir which should be 16 Ohm, again no major hissing. Obviously there is a background noise which is worst than the one on the C5, but I guess this is not due to impedance issues but only to the quality of the earphones.


----------



## L0SLobos

dieseltech said:


> jhwalker, you said that the meridian now supports 5 ohms?  I just bought my meridian explorer a little over 5 weeks ago from meridian-audio.  I think that they would send me the latest updated device.  I get hissing on my in-ear ear phones (ckm500 16 ohms) when plugged into my meridian.
> 
> I dont hear the hissing on my headphones (ath-a900) which is rated at 40 ohms.
> 
> Could it be that they sent me an old hardware?  Anyone else experiencing hissing on in-ear ear phones?


 
  
  


doraymon said:


> I use the Explorer with Sennheiser HD650 (over-ear, 300 Ohm), Sennheiser PX 200-IIi (on-ear, 32 Ohm), B&W C5 (in-ear, 32 Ohm).
> I am not experiencing any hissing whatsoever with these three headphones.
> 
> My suggestion is to write to Meridian immediately mentioning the serial number of your Explorer and complaining about the hissing. I have always read good things about the Meridian customer care, they should take proper care of you...
> ...


 
 Hissing while using the Explorer with headphones with less than 40 ohm impedance is to be expected with the very high 5 ohm output impedance of the Explorer. Generally a safe rule to be certain is to multiply the output impedance of the integrated amp by a factor of 8 (5 ohm*8=40 ohms) for the headphones. Considering that the Explorer is a solid state portable usb dac, it is quite unacceptable that it can't be used with common low impedance iem's and headphones.


----------



## jhwalker

l0slobos said:


> Hissing while using the Explorer with headphones with less than 40 ohm impedance is to be expected with the very high 5 ohm output impedance of the Explorer. Generally a safe rule to be certain is to multiply the output impedance of the integrated amp by a factor of 8 (5 ohm*8=40 ohms) for the headphones. Considering that the Explorer is a solid state portable usb dac, it is quite unacceptable that it can't be used with common low impedance iem's and headphones.


 
 I guess I'm lucky - the IEMs I'm using (vSonic GR07) have a very high impedance for IEMs (~50 ohms), and thus no hiss for me.
  
 I'd certainly be concerned if I heard hissing from my $300 portable DAC :/
  
 Now you've gotten me more interested in the Herus


----------



## L0SLobos

jhwalker said:


> I guess I'm lucky - the IEMs I'm using (vSonic GR07) have a very high impedance for IEMs (~50 ohms), and thus no hiss for me.
> 
> I'd certainly be concerned if I heard hissing from my $300 portable DAC :/
> 
> Now you've gotten me more interested in the Herus


 
 Yep, the hissing was one of the reasons why I decided to return the Explorer. All of my headphones except for the AKG K712 have low impedances (around 30~ish ohms), so basically they were unusable with the Explorer. So I got the Herus instead since I could use it with anything.


----------



## doraymon

l0slobos said:


> Yep, the hissing was one of the reasons why I decided to return the Explorer. All of my headphones except for the AKG K712 have low impedances (around 30~ish ohms), so basically they were unusable with the Explorer. So I got the Herus instead since I could use it with anything.



Again, with two different 32 Ohm headphones I have no hissing.
I know the golden rule of 1:8 for the amp:headphones, but in my experience the reality is much more complicated and you never know until you try. 
Having said that, you were not happy with your explorer and you returned it, I am very happy with mine and unless I hear anything so much better at a decent price, I will keep it.
By the way here in Germany getting a Herus will cost around 360-380 Eur, vs the 300 of the Explorer.:mad:


----------



## L0SLobos

doraymon said:


> Again, with two different 32 Ohm headphones I have no hissing.
> I know the golden rule of 1:8 for the amp:headphones, but in my experience the reality is much more complicated and you never know until you try.
> Having said that, you were not happy with your explorer and you returned it, I am very happy with mine and unless I hear anything so much better at a decent price, I will keep it.
> By the way here in Germany getting a Herus will cost around 360-380 Eur, vs the 300 of the Explorer.


 
 I tried the explorer with the b&o h6, my favorite and most used headphones that I own and could not stand the hissing and the bass was boomy (not controlled) and all over the place; indeed I found that straight out from my ipod nano 7g it sounded much better than with the explorer. It is unfortunate that in Europe the Herus will be that expensive due to import prices as you will never have the opportunity to listen to a superior dac, but here in Vancouver for me it is easy to buy because Resonessence Labs is based here.
  
 Also the Resonessence Labs Concero HP is a huge step up from the Herus; it is the best headphone dac that I have had the pleasure of hearing. Unfortunately I could not afford to keep it and sold it to a friend locally
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## LAmitchell

For me, the explorer is hands down better than the dragonfly. it made me sad that I owned the dragonfly for over a year before finally getting the explorer.
  
 Of course, like I said "for me"


----------



## netdog

l0slobos said:


> Point taken. Audio is subjective and the fact that you much prefer the Explorer to the Dragonfly is your freedom and right. However, I am merely stating that performance per dollar, the latter offers more than the former. In addition, to those people who are in the market for a portable usb DAC and are willing to pay 300 euros, I will point them towards the Herus instead of the Explorer as it offers so much more for the same price; the Herus effectively makes all other portable usb dac's obsolete with its plethora of high end features.


 
  
 While perception of sound, and taste regarding sound may both be subjective, the AB I did between a Meridian Explorer with ALAC files and the same CD through a 10 year-old 3D Labs cd player produced markedly differently sounds, I mean really surprisingly so, and I don't think anyone would have preferred the Meridian.  In fact, the cd player won by a country mile, and bear in mind that the DAC in it was 10 years old!


----------



## doraymon

netdog said:


> While perception of sound, and taste regarding sound may both be subjective, the AB I did between a Meridian Explorer with ALAC files and the same CD through a 10 year-old 3D Labs cd player produced markedly differently sounds, I mean really surprisingly so, and I don't think anyone would have preferred the Meridian.  In fact, the cd player won by a country mile, and bear in mind that the DAC in it was 10 years old!


 
 Guys, I really have no interest in defending the Explorer at all costs, but the AB test you are mentioning is a very subjective test. 
 I take the point that you preferred the old CD vs the Explorer, which is a respectable opinion.


----------



## bcwang

dieseltech said:


> jhwalker, you said that the meridian now supports 5 ohms?  I just bought my meridian explorer a little over 5 weeks ago from meridian-audio.  I think that they would send me the latest updated device.  I get hissing on my in-ear ear phones (ckm500 16 ohms) when plugged into my meridian.
> 
> I dont hear the hissing on my headphones (ath-a900) which is rated at 40 ohms.
> 
> Could it be that they sent me an old hardware?  Anyone else experiencing hissing on in-ear ear phones?


 
  


doraymon said:


> I use the Explorer with Sennheiser HD650 (over-ear, 300 Ohm), Sennheiser PX 200-IIi (on-ear, 32 Ohm), B&W C5 (in-ear, 32 Ohm).
> I am not experiencing any hissing whatsoever with these three headphones.
> 
> My suggestion is to write to Meridian immediately mentioning the serial number of your Explorer and complaining about the hissing. I have always read good things about the Meridian customer care, they should take proper care of you...
> ...


 
  


l0slobos said:


> Hissing while using the Explorer with headphones with less than 40 ohm impedance is to be expected with the very high 5 ohm output impedance of the Explorer. Generally a safe rule to be certain is to multiply the output impedance of the integrated amp by a factor of 8 (5 ohm*8=40 ohms) for the headphones. Considering that the Explorer is a solid state portable usb dac, it is quite unacceptable that it can't be used with common low impedance iem's and headphones.


 
  
 I just need to mention that hissing and output impedance have no bearing on each other.  Hissing only has to do with sensitivity of the headphone and the noisiness of the particular amp.  With some of my headphones I can hear hissing on amps whether 0.1ohm or 10 ohm output impedance.  With other headphones, it doesn't hiss with any of my amps.  Then there are headphones that hiss louder on my 0.1ohm amp than the meridian explorer with 5 ohm output impedance.  Basically output impedance of the amp and the impedance of the headphone mismatch don't produce hiss.  The problem with this mismatch is with modified frequency response behavior and poor driver damping, both which don't relate to hiss levels.
  
 Now I am very sensitive to and annoyed with hiss, but the explorer isn't that bad in this regard.  It's usable with nearly all my headphones nearly devoid of any hiss (except with the shure se530), which I can't say is true with most other devices.  If anyone is getting major hiss out of it with not super sensitive IEMs, it may be defective.  It should be one of the quieter devices out there from my experience.


----------



## doraymon

bcwang said:


> I just need to mention that hissing and output impedance have no bearing on each other.


 
  
 I agree.
 From what I understand the 1:8 impedance rule between amp output and headphones is to prevent power losses, so nothing to do with hissing.


----------



## frozst

I recently got the Meridian Explorer and I'm quite happy so far. I will compare it against my Xonar STX to hear the difference.
  
 Regarding the hissing, with the Alessandro MS2 and the Westone W40 I can't hear any hissing at all. I have the last firmware and I think is the updated version.


----------



## Aerocraft67

The Explorer came out a year ago. At the time, there were very few comparable options. The iFi iDAC was the most similar on paper, 192 kHz for $300 (and of British make, for what that's worth) but availability was even flakier than Explorer. The Dragonfly was $50 less and more compact but capped at 96 kHz. The base Bifrost was $50 more but had no USB (effectively capped at 96 kHz) and wasn't portable. 
  
 Stands to reason that more compelling price/performance propositions have emerged in a year's time, especially since DAC product development is evolving relatively briskly, but the Explorer still holds its own at $300. It sells for more than $200 on eBay, which is a respectably small used discount. 
  
 You can go cheaper or more expensive, but there are still not many alternatives at $300. There is the hiFace. Herus also offers more features and appears to be a good value, but it is $50 more. With these new options, if you're not playing music sampled higher than 192 kHz, you could make the argument that you're investing in capability you don't need, even at the desired price (although you could also assume you're getting better technology that inherently has the richer feature set that you can't carve out). The v2 Dragonfly and the Microstreamer are much cheaper at $150 and $170, but still no 192 kHz. 
  
 If I were purchasing now instead of last year, I'd be looking harder at the cheaper 96 kHz units or something non-portable closer to $500. I decided to take a 192 kHz plunge then, and would likely do it again, but it might have been nice to cap the sample rate at 96 kHz to afford more music for the money. And I wonder whether I really get enough out of the higher sampling rate, day to day, to justify it. I also rarely exploit portability, so I might opt for a fully loaded Bifrost or something. That contradicts my doubts about whether the 192 kHz capability is worth it, but maybe throwing a little more DAC at it would sweeten the proposition (put another way, maybe a $300 DAC doesn't do > 96 kHz justice). And part of my reasoning for investing in 192 kHz transcends my day to day listening—if I'm going to buy a classic recording again, I want to get the best practical version. 
  
 So, purchasing now instead of last year, I might still wind up with the Explorer.


----------



## DoomForce

Quick question for the explorer owners, 
  
 Can you actually connect speakers through the optical-out , and headphones through the headphone out at the same time? Will they both have the same sound output then at the same time?


----------



## bcwang

doomforce said:


> Quick question for the explorer owners,
> 
> Can you actually connect speakers through the optical-out , and headphones through the headphone out at the same time? Will they both have the same sound output then at the same time?


 

 Yes you can.  They are simultaneous output and the volume control on the computer it's connected to only affect the headphone out.


----------



## DoomForce

bcwang said:


> Yes you can.  They are simultaneous output and the volume control on the computer it's connected to only affect the headphone out.


 
 Excellent, thank you!
  
 One more quick question. On OS X 10.9, how do you guys control the output of the Meridian Explorer, when playing high def files (e.g. 192kHz)? I can't get it to light up the status LEDs showing that the output is at 192kHz.


----------



## LAmitchell

Quick 2 cents..
  
 I love the sound of the EXPLORER...
  
 the smoothness (compared to Dragonfly which was edgy sounding to me)
  
 the roundness of the notes (piano, guitar sound more realistic)
  
 also, channel separation (great for imaging) is so much better than Dragonfly 
  
  
 - La Mitchell
  
 p.s. loved it so much, I paid the $400 extra to upgrade to Director Dac


----------



## bostown

I had the older Nuforce MicroDac 2 and came across a deal on an Explorer.   I miss the independent Volume control but that's not a deal breaker.   Overall the Explorer is pretty nice.  perfect for taking to the office.    I need to make myself a little hardshell case for the constant commuting.  maybe a little pelican Case for the Explorer and Pig tail USB cable.    It's weird that they didn't use the current style USB connector but whatever,  still a solid unit overall .  No complaints really.


----------



## Lan647

lamitchell said:


> Quick 2 cents..
> 
> I love the sound of the EXPLORER...
> 
> ...


 

 May I ask if it was worth it? I really like my Explorer but I feel it just offers a slight (if any) improvement over the excellent audio of my iPhone 5. The DAC inside my Pioneer receiver though is not as nice and I tend to use the Meridian for music listening with my speakers. 
  
 A DAC designed well enough really won't be audibly improved upon in my experience, I'm not a "golden eared" audiophile that imagines things and and blows up minor differences.. 

 But still, I'm interested


----------



## LAmitchell

lan647 said:


> May I ask if it was worth it? I really like my Explorer but I feel it just offers a slight (if any) improvement over the excellent audio of my iPhone 5. The DAC inside my Pioneer receiver though is not as nice and I tend to use the Meridian for music listening with my speakers.
> 
> A DAC designed well enough really won't be audibly improved upon in my experience, I'm not a "golden eared" audiophile that imagines things and and blows up minor differences..
> 
> But still, I'm interested


 

 Hi Lan,
  
 Here's my experience with DACs....
  
  
 DRAGONFLY
  
      Wow, this is neat, so clear, so sharp, so much more detail.  But, it kind of seems to get on my nerves after a while for some reason. In fact, I preferred my iphone (no dac) when listening for long periods of time.
  
  
  
 EXPLORER
  
      Hey, now this is MUCH better than the Dragonfly. Wish I would have bought this to begin with. It's sharp, but not RAZOR sharp, and it doesn't have the edge to it that the dragonfly did, so I can listen to music for long periods of time (I guess this is what they mean by "liquidity"). Also, the left/right channel separation is sooo much better, so the images are well defined now.
  
  
  
 DIRECTOR
  
      I can now understand what is mean by TONAL COLOR. Going back to the Explorer is like listening to music in "black & white & gray". Also, things are very CLEAR, so I also understand what is meant by TRANSPARENCY. This is a dac that I can spend a lot of time getting to know, because it doesn't bore me.
  
  
  
 Hope that all made sense,
  
 LA mitchell


----------



## dankim

Is there any way to tell if your Meridian Explorer is the first or second version without testing the impedance of the signal? Is there a serial # range that determines what version you have?
  
 I want to buy this from someone secondhand but he's not sure when he picked it up.


----------



## obsidyen

I think Meridian Explorer sounds absolutely amazing, headphones: AKG Q 701, Sennheiser Momentum, Sennheiser IE800. Even though I have the Q 701 (kind of regret buying it, don't like the sound signature much) I've never really enjoyed listening to music with them. Explorer makes them somewhat enjoyable, makes them less analytical and more musical. I'm not sure about them still, gotta give it some time.
  
 Which driver do you guys recommend for Explorer? Asio, Wasapi or DS? I'm on Asio at the moment.
  
 Ps: If this the Meridian sound people rave about, I'm loving it too. Whilst buying the Explorer today, I saw a Meridian set of speakers and amplifier. I asked how much they were, the sales rep (who was a really pretty woman) said "20 thousand pounds." Then I said "err, ok, thank you." whilst thinking I could buy myself a new car instead.
  
 By the way, mine is probably the revised version but I want to check anyway, what's the way to do it?


----------



## obsidyen

Also, I'm using the Explorer as a dac/headphone amp combo. Can it drive 250 ohm-300 ohm headphones?


----------



## frankrondaniel

obsidyen said:


> Also, I'm using the Explorer as a dac/headphone amp combo. Can it drive 250 ohm-300 ohm headphones?


 
  
 Haven't used my Explorer in a while.  Your question prompted me to dust it off and try it with my HD800s - 300 ohm headphones.  It does remarkably well!  Certainly drives it to ear bleeding volumes.


----------



## Sound Eq

i have few question
  
 1- can i use it with iPad mini
 2- can i use with it android
 3- can i use with a lenovo miix 2 windows 8.1 tablet that has a microusb
 4- is the dac in the meridian better than the dac found in fiio x3
 5-if i want to use my iPad as a car player connected to the meridian can i get optical output from meridian to go to a car dsp optically ( alpine pxa 800 )


----------



## periofab

For those who have (had) the combination, how does the Explorer pair with the senn HD 598 ? Thank you !


----------



## periofab

No one ?


----------



## obsidyen

periofab said:


> No one ?




It is very good with HD 650s, probably the same applies to HD 598


----------



## JamieCole

On sale for $149.00 from Audio Advisor (and Amazon)! I just picked one up and am excited to see how it pairs with my Shure 1540's. It's been a long haul trying to find the amp/dac combination that suits me the most. I hope the Explorer pans out!


----------



## imackler

jhwalker said:


> HOWEVER - I would not recommend this headphone amp (alone) for high-end headphones like Sennheiser HD600-HD800s, HiFiMan HE-500-6Es, etc. - they require more "umph* than this device can deliver.


 
  
 Do any of you with experience with the HD600/HD650 and using Explorer as amp agree? I'm wondering if there is a usb dac that has enough "umph" to run the HD600 to optimal?


----------



## zerodeefex

imackler said:


> jhwalker said:
> 
> 
> > HOWEVER - I would not recommend this headphone amp (alone) for high-end headphones like Sennheiser HD600-HD800s, HiFiMan HE-500-6Es, etc. - they require more "umph* than this device can deliver.
> ...




Best pairing for HD600/HD650 of the current crop is the Geek Out 450. Its a perfect pairing. PM CEE TEE if you want a second opinion.


----------



## imackler

zerodeefex said:


> Best pairing for HD600/HD650 of the current crop is the Geek Out 450. Its a perfect pairing. PM CEE TEE if you want a second opinion.


 
  
 Thanks for the direction!


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Nov. will be a good month for Meridian.


----------



## PhilW

Agree with that


----------



## PixelSquish

jamiecole said:


> On sale for $149.00 from Audio Advisor (and Amazon)! I just picked one up and am excited to see how it pairs with my Shure 1540's. It's been a long haul trying to find the amp/dac combination that suits me the most. I hope the Explorer pans out!


 
 yep. ordered this for $149 yesterday and it feels like a steal based upon what i've read. seems to be a great pairing with the HD 600's from the vast majority of folks who actually have the two.  the meridian seems to have a slightly more rich sound than the geekout from what i've researched.


----------



## faisal2003456

pixelsquish said:


> yep. ordered this for $149 yesterday and it feels like a steal based upon what i've read. seems to be a great pairing with the HD 600's from the vast majority of folks who actually have the two.  the meridian seems to have a slightly more rich sound than the geekout from what i've researched.


 
  
 In the same boat as you. Let us know how it sounds.


zerodeefex said:


> Best pairing for HD600/HD650 of the current crop is the Geek Out 450. Its a perfect pairing. PM CEE TEE if you want a second opinion.


 
 Is there no (majorly) noticeable benefit to the 720 or 1000 then?


----------



## zerodeefex

faisal2003456 said:


> pixelsquish said:
> 
> 
> > yep. ordered this for $149 yesterday and it feels like a steal based upon what i've read. seems to be a great pairing with the HD 600's from the vast majority of folks who actually have the two.  the meridian seems to have a slightly more rich sound than the geekout from what i've researched.
> ...




Not with the HD6XX. The 720 is warmer and the 1000 is the warmest of the three.


----------



## snip3r77

up to $150 is this a best buy?
  
 How does this compare to dragonfly 1.2 ( same price), micro streamer etc ?


----------



## JamieCole

Personally, I'm digging the Explorer over the DragonFly v. 1.2. To my ears, it's no where near as analytical (in a good way) and seems to have better control over my cans. The Explorer seems to put everything together well. It's not as detailed as the DragonFly, but it's far more musical. For $150, it's a pleasure to listen to. 
  
 What cans are you listening to? Perhaps someone on here has experience with the synergy between the two.


----------



## snip3r77

jamiecole said:


> Personally, I'm digging the Explorer over the DragonFly v. 1.2. To my ears, it's no where near as analytical (in a good way) and seems to have better control over my cans. The Explorer seems to put everything together well. It's not as detailed as the DragonFly, but it's far more musical. For $150, it's a pleasure to listen to.
> 
> What cans are you listening to? Perhaps someone on here has experience with the synergy between the two.


 
  
 I have the TF10 and TDK BA200 for work use
 and occasionally I will throw in the Monoprice 8382.
  
 Also I read the Explorer has a impedance of 5 ohms. Any issue as my gear listed is quite sensitive?
 Any hissing sound?


----------



## JamieCole

snip3r77 said:


> I have the TF10 and TDK BA200 for work use
> and occasionally I will throw in the Monoprice 8382.
> 
> Also I read the Explorer has a impedance of 5 ohms. Any issue as my gear listed is quite sensitive?
> Any hissing sound?


 
 The most sensitive headphones I have are the Shure 215 in-ears. They are rated at 20 ohms with a sensitivity of 107 dB. So, they are well off the 1/8 rule with the 5 ohm Explorer, but they still sound terrific. I didn't detect any noticeable hissing or background noise. Actually, I heard more background noise with the DragonFly when compared to the Explorer using the 215's. Granted, they were plugged into two different USB ports, so it wasn't an entirely controlled experiment. But, that's still what I heard. 
  
 At $150 each, order them both from Amazon and return the one you don't like.


----------



## smilemantts

Has anyone used the Meridian Explorer with B&W P7s, or can comment on how well the two should work together?
  
 Would like to use this combo with following hardware: MacBook Pro Retina 15", iPad Air and Android smartphone (Nexus 5, hopefully soon Nexus 6).
  
 I play my music primarily through Plex Home Theatre App on the MBPr, Plex apps on iPad and Nexus 5. Will also occasionally use Vox on MBPr.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Borbarad

smilemantts said:


> Has anyone used the Meridian Explorer with B&W P7s, or can comment on how well the two should work together?
> 
> Would like to use this combo with following hardware: MacBook Pro Retina 15", iPad Air and Android smartphone (Nexus 5, hopefully soon Nexus 6).
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Yep, I used this combo for quite a while on a MacPro until I passed the explorer down to my father as I went for the Meridian Prime+PSU. In short: works brilliantly. And my father is enjoying his P7 with the Explorer. P7 plus Explorer is value for money!
  
 B


----------



## smilemantts

borbarad said:


> Yep, I used this combo for quite a while on a MacPro until I passed the explorer down to my father as I went for the Meridian Prime+PSU. In short: works brilliantly. And my father is enjoying his P7 with the Explorer. P7 plus Explorer is value for money!
> 
> B


 
 Thanks.
  
 What about using the Explorer with a smartphone?


----------



## yoyo59

just ordered this meridian explorer brought from US $149 + postage + import tax
  
 still cheaper than £249 here..
  
 hope its a good replacement to my asus STX as I move to mini itx build


----------



## rozunoe

Seems like a new Meridian Explorer is coming out. The Meridian Explorer2.
  
 https://www.meridian-audio.com/en/collections/products/explorer2/52/


----------



## smilemantts

rozunoe said:


> Seems like a new Meridian Explorer is coming out. The Meridian Explorer2.
> 
> https://www.meridian-audio.com/en/collections/products/explorer2/52/


 

 Well, that explains the $150 price cut.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

smilemantts said:


> Thanks.
> 
> What about using the Explorer with a smartphone?


 
  
 Like this?


----------



## smilemantts

hifiguy528 said:


> Like this?


 
  
 Nice!


----------



## jjcha

hifiguy528 said:


> Like this?


 

 Mike, what is the power of the battery you're using with the CCK and the Meridian Explorer?  I just tried with one rated DC 5V1A, 2200mAh capacity, which doesn't appear to work.  Going to try a more powerful one.
  
 ETA:  Looks like that's an Anker 2nd Gen Astro E3?  If so, to answer my own question, it's a 5V3A, 10kmAh.  Pretty beefy stuff.


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## HiFiGuy528

It sounds really good.  Very quiet noise floor and plenty of gain.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/10000mAh-Dual-Port-Compact-External-Portable/dp/B009USAJCC/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1413679956&sr=1-3&keywords=anker


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## smilemantts

Anyone want to speculate on what features the new Explorer will have (i.e., DSD support, no need for external power, etc.)?


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## lmf22

Ugh...I just bought the Explorer less than a month ago. Maybe that's why they lowered the price to $150. Any information on release date and price?


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## tiobilli

Wich Explorer version is the best for using Grado headphones? How to know the meridian version?


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## lmf22

tiobilli said:


> Wich Explorer version is the best for using Grado headphones? How to know the meridian version?


 
  
 Currently, all Meridian Explorer is version 1. 
 Version 2 has not been released yet. So version 2 may or may not be better for Grado headphones. We will not know until it is release and give time for people to try it out and compare both version.


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## tiobilli

lmf22 said:


> Currently, all Meridian Explorer is version 1.
> Version 2 has not been released yet. So version 2 may or may not be better for Grado headphones. We will not know until it is release and give time for people to try it out and compare both version.



I did not mean wich of the both 1 and 2 version would be better but wich of the revisions of version 1, the current version, due the impedance issues it have.


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## frozst

I'm using it with my Allessandro MS2 (Grado modification) and I never had an issue, I have a later version of the DAC so it doesn't have the impedance issues.


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## tiobilli

frozst said:


> I'm using it with my Allessandro MS2 (Grado modification) and I never had an issue, I have a later version of the DAC so it doesn't have the impedance issues.



Thank you. How can I know the "version" of it?


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## frozst

tiobilli said:


> Thank you. How can I know the "version" of it?


 
 I don´t know TBH. I just bought it from Meridian directly and I asked them first if it was the rev. version.
  
 I never noticed any impedance issue with the Grado/Alessandro or the Westone 4 or Westone W40.


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## jhwalker

frozst said:


> I don´t know TBH. I just bought it from Meridian directly and I asked them first if it was the rev. version.
> 
> I never noticed any impedance issue with the Grado/Alessandro or the Westone 4 or Westone W40.


 

 Unless you're buying used, all the devices in the channel today will almost certainly be rev 2 of the original device.


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## frozst

jhwalker said:


> Unless you're buying used, all the devices in the channel today will almost certainly be rev 2 of the original device.


 
 Exactly, is quite unlikely you buy the rev1 after all this time... I bought my unit in Jan'14.


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## yoyo59

is it possible to use the explorer with my M audio speakers? with 3.5mm to XLRs? through the line in


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## kawaivpc1

Hello guys, I bought this unit. I'm trying to use it with my HTC Desire 816 Android cellphone. It's not working right now. Do you guys have any tip? How can I make it work? I have installed USB Audio Player Pro. It says "error initializing USB " and doesn't power on the unit. I have no clue at the moment. Please help!


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## MrSlim

yoyo59 said:


> is it possible to use the explorer with my M audio speakers? with 3.5mm to XLRs? through the line in



 


It shouldn't be an issue, others have discussed using devices of this type (ie portable USB DACS) connected directly to active(self powered) speakers


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## MrSlim

kawaivpc1 said:


> Hello guys, I bought this unit. I'm trying to use it with my HTC Desire 816 Android cellphone. It's not working right now. Do you guys have any tip? How can I make it work? I have installed USB Audio Player Pro. It says "error initializing USB " and doesn't power on the unit. I have no clue at the moment. Please help!



 


Check posts 1013 - 1016 on this thread. The Explorer likely needs more power than the cell phone is willing to provide. You'll need a Y usb cable and an external battery to drive it..


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## obsidyen

I'll definitely buy Explorer2... I sold the first one and miss it so much. To me it sounded better than Chord Hugo, the smoothness, the lushness.. It was a beautiful sound. I hope the output impedance is 2 ohm or lower.
  
 Edit: Apparently it's 0.47 ohm which is much better. Great news.


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## tiobilli

I've got it, last week, and unfortunately there is no difference between my PC Lenovo Thinkpad t420 headphone out and the explorer headphone out. I 've tried Spotify 320kbs, and FLAC. I use a pair of Grado SR80e. Should I have to burn in? Are the grados suitable for the explorer?


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## obsidyen

tiobilli said:


> I've got it, last week, and unfortunately there is no difference between my PC Lenovo Thinkpad t420 headphone out and the explorer headphone out. I 've tried Spotify 320kbs, and FLAC. I use a pair of Grado SR80e. Should I have to burn in? Are the grados suitable for the explorer?


 
 Explorer or Explorer2?


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## tiobilli

obsidyen said:


> Explorer or Explorer2?



Explorer1


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## jkbkot

tiobilli said:


> I've got it, last week, and unfortunately there is no difference between my PC Lenovo Thinkpad t420 headphone out and the explorer headphone out. I 've tried Spotify 320kbs, and FLAC. I use a pair of Grado SR80e. Should I have to burn in? Are the grados suitable for the explorer?


 
 I also use Explorer 1 (second revision) with my Thinkpad T420 and Shure 315 and I also don't hear much difference. Maybe the only difference is that the Explorer produces noticeably less background noise when no sound is playing.
 Burning in shouldn't be a problem as it should be never necessary.


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## chaiyuta

tiobilli said:


> I've got it, last week, and unfortunately there is no difference between my PC Lenovo Thinkpad t420 headphone out and the explorer headphone out. I 've tried Spotify 320kbs, and FLAC. I use a pair of Grado SR80e. Should I have to burn in? Are the grados suitable for the explorer?


 
 I suggest you buying a high quality usb a to mini usb b cable that is made for audio purpose such as audioquest diamond or cinnamon, supra usb2.0 series, wireworld platinum starlight 7, etc. Hope this help.


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## jkbkot

chaiyuta said:


> I suggest you buying a high quality usb a to mini usb b cable that is made for audio purpose such as audioquest diamond or cinnamon, supra usb2.0 series, wireworld platinum starlight 7, etc. Hope this help.


 
 Do you have some evidence that USB cable makes a difference?
  
 http://archimago.blogspot.de/2013/04/measurements-usb-cables-for-dacs.html


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## chaiyuta

jkbkot said:


> Do you have some evidence that USB cable makes a difference?
> 
> http://archimago.blogspot.de/2013/04/measurements-usb-cables-for-dacs.html



I have nothing. My acquaintance who sound test with himself can hear a difference. If you worry, you should just try demo cables at any nearby stores. Anyway, if you are interested in technical issue, I think of this link might have your answer.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/617026/usb-cable-and-sound-quality


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## tiobilli

Is the impedance issue resolved applying the new firmware V1349?

https://www.meridian-audio.com/support/personal-audio-support/explorer/

I've just bought it, I'm doubting if it pairs correctly with a Grado SR80e so, I'm thinking to return it and wait for the explorer 2.
¿What do you think?


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## obsidyen

tiobilli said:


> Is the impedance issue resolved applying the new firmware V1349?
> 
> https://www.meridian-audio.com/support/personal-audio-support/explorer/
> 
> ...


 
  
 No impedance issue is hardware based, firmware won't make it go away. That said, newer Explorers have 5 ohm output so headphones over 40 ohm shouldn't have a problem, even 32 ohms would be ok in my opinion. That said it's better to buy the new one with only 0.47 ohm output.


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## PhilW

The Explorer2 has officially been released in the UK today for £199!


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## obsidyen

I've just placed the order from Custom Cable. Can't wait.  I really liked the original Meridian Explorer and regret selling it for an "upgrade". With very low output impedance, this should be amazing.


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## money4me247

just curious if this can be used as a dac only with another dedicated amp.


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## obsidyen

money4me247 said:


> just curious if this can be used as a dac only with another dedicated amp.


 

 Yes, you can use the line out jack to connect it to another amp. The dac is quite impressive too, sounds very nice with an amp and speakers. That said, Meridian Direct Dac is probably better for dac only use.


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## obsidyen

Look what's arrived from Custom Cable (thanks to Phil and Matt for fast delivery as always).


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## vikingboy

Mine arrived s few days ago. I found it immediately more enjoyable than the explorer1. I haven't cruticslly listened yet, just plugged it in and listened to a few well known tracks. Bass is significantly better with my unique melody miracles. 
I'd be interested in trying high end 6" sub leads, maybe in the new year when I have a bit more time.


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## Click

Is the Explorer 2 $150 better than Meridian 1?
  
 I'm currently doing research on a DAC to pair with my HD700 and Schiit Vali. I appreciate any feedback from anyone who has paired this with a Vali and/or HD700. Thanks


----------



## obsidyen

click said:


> Is the Explorer 2 $150 better than Meridian 1?
> 
> I'm currently doing research on a DAC to pair with my HD700 and Schiit Vali. I appreciate any feedback from anyone who has paired this with a Vali and/or HD700. Thanks


 
 It depends. For me it is. Low output impedance and MQA support alone justify the premium. Plus there's new DSP tech from high-end Meridian gear. You might be surprised how HD700 sounds just from Explorer2's headphone jack.  HD650 sounds quite impressive at 300 ohms.


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## vikingboy

I'd agree with obsidyen, low impedance and possible benefits of MQA (any test files available publicly yet?) given the low price point make it a no brainer to go with the newer version.


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## XERO1

Can someone please confirm for me if both of the outputs can be used simultaneously or not?
  
 Thanks.


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## HiFiGuy528

jkbkot said:


> Do you have some evidence that USB cable makes a difference?
> 
> http://archimago.blogspot.de/2013/04/measurements-usb-cables-for-dacs.html


 
  
 garbage against garbage is still garbage.


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## plonter

xero1 said:


> Can someone please confirm for me if both of the outputs can be used simultaneously or not?
> 
> Thanks.


 
 I think I read somewhere that when using one output it cancells the other to maximize sound quality, but I'm not sure.
  
 The explorer2 should be much better than the original version, at least on paper:
  

  
 I think this will be my next toy as an upgrade to the DragonFly 1.2 which I still very appreciate.     I can't resist the explorer2..Upsampling OH BOY !
 And I already have a Kimber USB cable waiting for it


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## Click

Just got the Explorer² today. Initial reaction after ~6 hours of listening to FLAC files on my HD700: Holy crap it sounds good!
  
 I did roughly 10 AB comparisons of different tracks from different genres hooked up to Vali using E² as DAC and also using only E² as a DAC/amp combo. There is definitely a difference. I prefer using E² as a DAC and Vali as the amp, but would not mind at all using E² as my portable DAC/amp, since there's no wall wart to worry about and it's small enough to carry in my pocket or backpack if need be. When used as a DAC/amp combo, there is no sound floor / hiss like there is when using the Vali as the amp. The sound is slightly colored as a DAC/amp and also slightly less smooth than when using Vali with it, but still incredibly detailed and resolving. I have to listen to it more and do some more tests with my IEMs.
  
 There should be a new thread made just for the Explorer²; it deserves one. I think Meridian built a very high quality portable DAC/amp combo. This is probably what Meridian wanted the first Explorer to be. 
  
 By the way, I bought Explorer² from a guy on eBay who has a decent amount of stock on hand. I'm not going to say what I paid for mine, but let's just say it's below the $300 retail price. It was factory sealed and in perfect condition when it arrived.


----------



## kawaivpc1

click said:


> Just got the Explorer² today. Initial reaction after ~6 hours of listening to FLAC files on my HD700: Holy crap it sounds good!
> 
> I did roughly 10 AB comparisons of different tracks from different genres hooked up to Vali using E² as DAC and also using only E² as a DAC/amp combo. There is definitely a difference. I prefer using E² as a DAC and Vali as the amp, but would not mind at all using E² as my portable DAC/amp, since there's no wall wart to worry about and it's small enough to carry in my pocket or backpack if need be. When used as a DAC/amp combo, there is no sound floor / hiss like there is when using the Vali as the amp. The sound is slightly colored as a DAC/amp and also slightly less smooth than when using Vali with it, but still incredibly detailed and resolving. I have to listen to it more and do some more tests with my IEMs.
> 
> ...





So, does it have a wide sound stage??
Is it better than DX100 and Geek Out?


----------



## Click

kawaivpc1 said:


> So, does it have a wide sound stage??
> Is it better than DX100 and Geek Out?


 
 Don't have those to compare, but it does have very good soundstage (more than hooked up to Vali). Then again, I'm using HD700 which has incredible soundstage capabilities. I have to test it with my other headphones and IEMs to give more details.
  
 Another pic:


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## Kramertc

xero1 said:


> Can someone please confirm for me if both of the outputs can be used simultaneously or not?
> 
> Thanks.


 

 Hi,
 I just received the Meridian Explorer and have been playing around with it.  Out of curiosity I tried it and both outputs are active at the same time.
 I am using both outputs at the moment.  Driving a K712 off the Meridian's headphone output and a K7XX off the line output to a Topping NX1 portable amp.
 Bought from Amazon and after installing the drivers I can see in the Meridian USB Control Panel that it came with the latest firmware installed already so I thought that was a very good sign.


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## XERO1

kramertc said:


> Hi,
> I just received the Meridian Explorer and have been playing around with it.  Out of curiosity I tried it and both outputs are active at the same time.
> I am using both outputs at the moment.  Driving a K712 off the Meridian's headphone output and a K7XX off the line output to a Topping NX1 portable amp.


 
  
 Sweet!  Thanks!


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## Click

After being very impressed with Explorer² hooked up to HD700, I'm now testing it with my IEMs. Even more impressed. This thing brings out the full potential of my music collection and modest stock of IEMs and headphones. 
  
 There seriously needs to be more hype for the E². Not many people have posted feedback on it yet, which is surprising.


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## adg4

I'd love to pick up an Explorer 2, but the price point is too high for me. I feel like $150 is a great price for a portable DAC. If I were to spend much more, I feel like I would be better off putting the money towards higher end headphones than my M50x's, Grado SR80's, or SE 535's.
  
 Also, I read that Retina MacBook Pro's (I use one daily) and newer Apple computers have respectable DACs. They won't do 192k or anything like that, but I don't have that demanding of a music collection yet, and it seems like my three pairs of headphones are doing fine without an amp.
  
 I am intrigued by the original Explorer, but I'm concerned I won't notice enough of a difference by using one. That said, I read that the Explorer 2 is noticeably better, so maybe it would be a worthwhile upgrade. 
  
 Hopefully there will be new offerings at CES (I'm guessing there are DACs at CES, but I have no clue) at lower price points, or maybe some competition will drive the price of the Explorer 2 down.


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## Click

Yes, the retail price of Explorer² is pretty steep but in my opinion, it's worth it for the sound quality you get out of the device. 
  
 If you're looking for just a DAC around $150, there are many choices. I've listed some in my post HERE.
  
 However, a high quality, portable DAC + amp combo is more difficult to come by, especially at $150. 
  
 Anyway, I made a new thread for Explorer². I hope new owners of the E² will post their impressions there...


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## sm4rt1

Comment also moved the Meridian Explorer 2 impressions thread

http://www.head-fi.org/t/747327/meridian-explorer-impressions-thread


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## obsidyen

adg4 said:


> I'd love to pick up an Explorer 2, but the price point is too high for me. I feel like $150 is a great price for a portable DAC. If I were to spend much more, I feel like I would be better off putting the money towards higher end headphones than my M50x's, Grado SR80's, or SE 535's.
> 
> Also, I read that Retina MacBook Pro's (I use one daily) and newer Apple computers have respectable DACs. They won't do 192k or anything like that, but I don't have that demanding of a music collection yet, and it seems like my three pairs of headphones are doing fine without an amp.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Retina Macbook Pros have good dacs, the problem is in some models output impedance of the headphone jack is too high (about 20 ohms) which can cause low impedance headphones to perform below the optimal level.This high output impedance problem exists in many sound cards/headphone jacks various brands.


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## plonter

I moved this comment to a more appropriate thread (Explorer2 impressions)


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## kawaivpc1

Have you guys tried to play DXD (32bit 382kHz) files DSD 128 files through Explorer 2?
 I hope they work. Someone told me that he could play DSD on foobar2000 through Explorer 2. I'm not sure if I can play DXD files.
  
 Thanks.


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## yorktronic

Hi guys, 
  
 I have a Meridian Explorer and I can confirm that it sounds great - very accurate to my ears and it powers Grado SR-125i's well. That said, I can only seem to get it to work with my MacBook Pro, and I'm having a lot of issues getting it to work with my Nexus 6 running Android Lolipop. This may be a post for the Nexus6 forums on reddit but I figured I'd try here as well.
  
 The Explorer doesn't receive power through a standard USB OTG cable. It does receive power if I use a USB OTG cable that has a separate power cable, but only the 176K/192K audio and 88K/96K audio lights light up (the "operating" light does not). Android does not detect it at all no matter what player I use. I've tried Tidal, N7player, PowerAmp, USB Audio Player Pro, Google Play, and Beats to no avail. 
  
 I've tested both cables with other devices and they both work. Any help would be appreciated.


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## g4747

Hello to the community!
 I have a question for you Explorer and/or Explorer 2 owners.
 I own the Explorer and I am using it as a DAC only, as I also have an 02 amp.
 Do you think it will be a worthy upgrade to buy the Explorer 2 for this use (DAC only)?

 I am not considering the standalone DAC by Meridian because rarely I use it as an amp when travelling  and it is perfect, but 90% of it's time will be used as DAC only, so I would like your opinion on that!


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## money4me247

g4747 said:


> Hello to the community!
> I have a question for you Explorer and/or Explorer 2 owners.
> I own the Explorer and I am using it as a DAC only, as I also have an 02 amp.
> Do you think it will be a worthy upgrade to buy the Explorer 2 for this use (DAC only)?
> ...


 
 not an explorer owner, but I've played around quite a lot with the usb-stick type dacs. owned the UD110v2, Cozoy Astrapi, AQ dragonfly v1.2, and Herus which spans a similar price range and all are quite quite nice. I think if you already own a previous version of a dac, it isn't really worth the loss of reselling it and upgrading to a new one. there are new dac upgrades that come out all the time so it'll get quite pricey. jumping between brands can alter your sound signature if you are still trying to tune for FR. good luck!


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## g4747

Thanks!
 I'm not looking to alter the sound, just looking for improved sound.
 The explorer is neutral to my ears and I'm very satisfied but if the sound is better I will consider it.
 On the other hand maybe in a few months explorer 3 will pop, I know I can't win.


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## pocketmoon

Tried Meridian Explorer with JDS Labs O2. 
 Meridian Explorer itself sounds noticeably better than ME+O2 combo.
 I have seen a lot of fu-fu-fu directed to ME's internal amp but it really really sounds better than any amp i have tried so far.
 Sure, it doesn't feel "energetic" due to lack of power (usb!) but, still, it's smooth, musical, accurate
 Compared to it, O2 adds some "power", not much. And ruins all the smoothness. Music is "rough" now
  
 P.S. brought O2 via offsite few weeks ago


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## senzen

Just got my Meridian Explorer version 1, first off I wanted to thank everyone in this thread as it had a lot of useful info and the sound is everything I expected. Unfortunately it's day one and I already have a problem, sometimes it's not recognized and other times it cuts out and disappears from the sound panel, this is with a 13" 2014 retina macbook pro with Sierra; when it's not recognized I can see the red light of optical output but the three white lights are off. It might simply be the USB cable, or is it the explorer? Returning this would be an extreme hassle as I bought it in the US and had it sent to Mexico.


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## peterinvan

g4747 said:


> Hello to the community!
> I have a question for you Explorer and/or Explorer 2 owners.
> I own the Explorer and I am using it as a DAC only, as I also have an 02 amp.
> Do you think it will be a worthy upgrade to buy the Explorer 2 for this use (DAC only)?
> ...


 

 I upgraded to the Explorer2, first for the apodizing filter, and second for the promise of MQA streaming from Tidal.  The DAC sits in my Stereo stack, fed from my iMac (Bootcamp), through the iPurifier, and iUSB power.
  
 This is a noticeable upgrade from the Explorer1.  Very clear image and sound stage.  Sounds great with  acoustic music (Classical and Jazz mostly).
  
 Look at great deals:
  
 http://www.audioadvisor.com/products.asp?dept=333
  
 If you are not holding out for MQA, and don't need portability, AudioAdvisor is selling a Demo Meridian Director for only $300.


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## senzen

In case anyone else runs into something similar, my explorer gets along fine with my left side USB, go figure.


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