# CX, EX, K, S, Oladra, Antipodes, Owners Unite



## Clive101 (May 22, 2020)

I thought I would start a thread were Antipodes owners could discuss tips and tricks.


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## andrewd01

Good shout. Whazzup also has a long thread in the dedicated source components section that is worth reading, but it is not specific to the CX/EX.


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## F208Frank

Antipodes owner here. Suscribed.


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## andrewd01

I retrieved the black ethernet cable from my Antipodes box and will give it a try tonight (into EX).  I don’t like doing quick in- out comparisons, so I will give it several days to see if there is any noticeable change from the supra cable.  I do have my Cisc 2960 in the chain as I thought it did make a small positive change compared to running ethernet straight from my Virgin hub.


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## Clive101

@andrewd01 it was @Whazzzup that mentioned the Antipodes in several threads so I tried one made the purchase the rest is history had it not been for him I would not have had a demo. I watch that thread as well. Do you have the CX along with the EX?


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## F208Frank (May 22, 2020)

It saddens me a little that antipodes no longer provides the short ethernet cable from EX to CX, but no big deal each CX and EX unit comes with it's own ethernet cable.

I ended up getting the Vodka ethernet cables as that was what Mark Jenkins recommended but the stock ethernet cables that come with CX and EX are very very good already.

Between the ethernet cables provided when comparing with the vodka I was not able to hear a significant difference but I kept my Vodka cables already.

According to Clive he preferred the stock ethernet cables over AQ Vodkas.


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## Progisus

Clive101 said:


> I though I would start a thread were Antipodes owners could discuss tips and tricks.


Great move. Subscribed. Maybe a little HQPlayer  banter (as regards the embedded version) will be welcomed.


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## Progisus

Good place to post any updates as well. I don’t see any way for app packages update notifications without just trying it.


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## andrewd01 (May 22, 2020)

Clive101 said:


> @andrewd01 it was @Whazzzup that mentioned the Antipodes in several threads so I tried one made the purchase the rest is history had it not been for him I would not have had a demo. I watch that thread as well. Do you have the CX along with the EX?


I have stand-alone EX.  I got a months old used model from Elite Audio in the UK for a good price.  They still have the matching CX but my budget for big ticket toys is blown for this year.

I mostly stream Tidal and some reports suggest the CX adds less when using streaming from Tidal/Qobuz.

My big spend item for this year was going to be an M scaler, but the idea of trying embedded HQP on a high end server appealed because I liked the idea of minimising the box count.  I am still curious to test the M scaler at some point in the future, but I am hugely impressed by the performance of HQP with sincm and LNS15 into Chord TT2.   It is interesting to read that @ray-dude is using HQP in his $100k system (see computer audiophile review of Taiko extreme), noting that he thinks WTA on M scaler is better but HQP is very close.


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## Whazzzup

Subbed, just cause


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## Progisus

I do most of my listening to 2.0 on cans or iems (but also have nice 5.2.1 Home Theatre). As you know I had the mscaler for about 6 months but I felt HQP was so close. Then came the chance to upgrade to the Antipodes. Partially based on @Whazzzup ’s findings and what else I could find , I decided to ditch the mscaler and take the Antipodes plunge. The EX is sooo silent and has all the power I need to run Roon core, HQP and still be a dlna server for 5.1 audio to the theatre. I would love a CX but for the time being I am running network 2 direct to my naa.


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## Clive101

@F208Frank I don't doubt that you find the standard black cable that came with the CX and EX and the Vodka similar. So I suspect the demo Vodka cable I had could be defective.
If you feel inclined would it be possible to try the Vodka again and try with some Japanese drum music from Qobuz paying particular attention to the drum skin vibration and decay? When I tried the Vodka all the bass detail was lost.
The difference is night and day and only tock me a few seconds to hear the difference and a few seconds A B for conformation.
Also did you find the black standard cable directional?

@andrewd01 I also am very interested in using HQ Player for the same reasons.

Has anyone done the comparison between the Mscaler and HQ player on the Antipodes CX and EX single box or combo?

As a few people mention using extra processing power on servers affects the SQ, hence I only run the processes I need.
@Progisus it may be worth trying to disable some process running that you do not need, is that possible to stop background services to reduce resources running making noise?

I found a huge difference changing from Twonky to Minim server on a Melco.

I prefer Roon than Squeezelite so different software different sound.

Has anyone tried Minim Server on the CX and or EX or combo compared to any other software?


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## Progisus

@Clive101 funny you should suggest that. I moved my core to another computer and removed the software from the EX. Very slight improvement in the soundstage. I do like having my core on the EX to drop the number of boxes. The core is a bit snappier on the Macbook Pro. Here is a little trick I have been using. Firstly I am the only user of HQP endpoints. I setup HQP with sdm, dsd256 to my rme adi-2 on its pi4 naa. I then setup HQP with pcm, sinc-m to my TT on it’s pi 4 naa. Then its a simple 2 clicks to change listening positions. Click 1 for sdm or pcm, click 2 for naa selection. Then apply. 

BTW - I have done extensive mscaler / HQP comparisons but that was using different computers. Comparing HQP on the EX to HQP on a Macbook Pro to HQP on a nuc7i3 all to the same dac. There is definitely a difference. EX first, MBP second, Nuc last. All very very close but the EX opened up the midrange a touch more.


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## andrewd01

@Clive101, I thought you already had HMS-Dave? Or am I confusing you with someone else?  If you already have the M scaler and Antipodes servers it is dead easy to install HQP and test using the free evaluation.  It will play for 30 minutes on the trial license.  I understand if you reboot the server the trial period resets, but it only took me 10 seconds to reach for my wallet and buy the license.

For installation  I just followed the instructions from the Antipodes web site here:
https://antipodes.audio/roon-with-hqplayer/

The instructions say it can take a long time to install, but mine only took a minute or so.
When running 16x sinc upscaling from redbook to 705.6kHz my CPU load is 18% on the EX (which is also running my Roon core).
It is a myth that PCM upscaling needs a huge compute resource.

It would be good to hear more reports from people who have compared HQP to M scaler on Antipodes servers, especially with the Chord DACS supporting USB up to 768kHz.  I suspect some of the people who have quickly dismissed HQP have tried it on lesser servers with a noisy USB output etc.  There is certainly limited appetite for discussion of this topic on the M scaler thread!


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## F208Frank

"Also did you find the black standard cable directional?"

I did not even know the stock cables were potentially directional. Did not notice but my vodka cable has arrows going from one way to the other. 

I no longer have stock cables so can not AB anymore sorry.


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## Clive101

@andrewd01 Well spotted I do have the Mscaler and Dave but I was being lazy  and did not fully understand how to implement HQP I thought it would always be in the background running and needed Roon removal. Thanks for the link I will give it a try and report back but give me a while.


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## andrewd01

I really like the way that Antipodes manages the various software packages.  It is nice that you can uninstall anything that you are not using to minimise system resources but the install files are always there when you want to install it.

If you want to compare with and without HQP in the chain I think you need to install the following:
HQP server
HQP Naa
Roon Ready 

You would set up HQ Player backend to be NAA and then use the app switcher to change between HQ Player NAA and Roon Ready.  You should be able to leave the M scaler in the chain, when HQ Player is doing the upscaling, the hi-res signal would just pass through the M scaler unchanged.

If you decide to use HQ Player exclusively, a simpler installation is to remove Roon Ready and the HQ Player NAA and just use the ALSA back end.


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## Clive101 (May 28, 2020)

I have just had a quick read through the manual for HQ Player.
Has anyone any idea what settings to use with which to compare with the Chord Mscaler ?
Edit I found this and will read https://community.roonlabs.com/t/hqplayer-vs-chord-wta1/92296


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## Whazzzup

Fascinating to watch but I’m sticking with roon, hqp looks windowish for me and brings bad memories now that I have been fully cooped by the apple brain control processes of ease. But carry on.


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## Progisus

OK... so I think I have my EX set up for the best sound in my system. I’ve moved roon core to another machine. I’ve deleted all software except hqplayer and set it to play to alsa. My Hugo TT is plugged in to the low noise usb. My hqplayer filters are: pcm, sinc-m, lns15, 384k. That is the closest I can get to the mscaler sound and the detail provided by the Antipodes low noise is to another level. Now a CX running the core would be end game. hahaha


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## Whazzzup

I’m Bach to pcm 386 from dsd 128 on my DX, subtle but enjoy it more


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## Progisus

Whazzzup said:


> I’m Bach to pcm 386 from dsd 128 on my DX, subtle but enjoy it more


I think pcm is best for the chord dacs except Dave, as they just decimate dsd back to pcm anyway.


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## Clive101

Can any one tell me which filters to change I have the 1 x filter which seems to be the same as the Nx filter? What is the difference between them?


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## Progisus

Clive101 said:


> Can any one tell me which filters to change I have the 1 x filter which seems to be the same as the Nx filter? What is the difference between them?


I always set mine the same. I believe they just give you the ability to use a less demanding one for sample rates above 44.1 (nx) when your computer is less powerful.


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## andrewd01

Yes set them the same.  I briefly experimented with polysinc long, as that seems popular on the roon thread. I didn't like it.  The soundstage collapsed.  I far prefer sinc M.


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## andrewd01

Whazzzup said:


> Fascinating to watch but I’m sticking with roon, hqp looks windowish for me and brings bad memories now that I have been fully cooped by the apple brain control processes of ease. But carry on.



  I would never use anything other than Roon as a library manager/ front end.  HQ Player is half a dozen settings in the background, then you don’t need to touch it again.  Huge uplift in SQ and dead easy to test for free on an Antipodes server.


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## Clive101

I have breifly tried some of the settings in HQPlayer with Roon.

I disconnected Mscaler from Dave and removed Roon Ready from the EX.

I tried HQ Player without any settings (straight through) and it killed the SQ of Dave... no AB it was that bad.

I then played around with some of the settings and liked what HQP can do in regards of different sound for different moods, genre and or personal preference.

I liked the IIR and the sinc M but did not find the music engaging as Dave with Roon Ready.

Dave and the Bryston Amps I have are not forgiving to poorly recorded music and I have particular issues with hot recorded tracks so the IIR was very useful.

With the settings I tried, all different, I always felt if I was losing something (that toe tapping experience) and I emailed the developer if there was a lite version rather than loading the HQ Player server onto the EX. There was no lite version and the filters used most of the resources...CPU power.

So if you find that HQP does not make too much of a hit (straight through) it may be worth paying for as it does give a range of different sounds depending on personal choice and save a lot of money for the Mscaler and associated cables.

When I put back the Mscaler I realised how much I like what it does, it would be great to have different filters built into Mscaler similar to HQP.

PS.

Today I added The CX EX to the Dave Mscaler - Woo Wa33 plus LCD4 (the Melco Z1a was used before) a big step up.


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## Progisus

The mscaler does as advertised but I couldn’t stomach the extra 2000.00 cad required for cables. The EX and HQP were a step up from my mscaler (without special cables). I would think the mscaler with dave would be special though. @Clive101 do you have wave cables or opto dx in your system?


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## Whazzzup

Well plus the 6500 for mscaler. Being a TT owner and quite happy with DX , the way forward is either tt2 or more likely Dave or probably Dave 2 whenever that is....


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## Clive101

@Progisus I have the Wave Storm cables more expense ! I am only comparing the EX with HQP vs EX with Mscaler and Wave cables, if I were to compare say a Computer vs EX with HQP  I would (from experience) purchase the EX first and not the Mscaler.

My upgrade path was server last. I like the CX and or EX as comparing different software is a breeze.

I am thinking of upgrading my server for my headphone system as cost effective as possible. Which could be upgrade the Melco firmware (as shortly it could be Roon ready) and have a CX running Roon to make a cheaper two box system similar to the CX EX combo or EX HQP or a second CX EX combo but funds do not permit. Without the Melco it would have been a EX HQP adding a CX when funds permit. That is why I showed an interest in HQP.


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## Progisus

The EX TT is a very satisfying combo but I would entertain upgrading to a TT2. Dave will never happen (haha). I’ve moved roon core to a MBPro with the EX running only HQP. I think that’s the best sound I will get from the EX without moving HQP to the MBPro and just the naa on the EX. Time to listen to a little Prog by the pool on a warm sunny afternoon here in the Peg.


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## andrewd01

Clive101 said:


> I have breifly tried some of the settings in HQPlayer with Roon.
> 
> I disconnected Mscaler from Dave and removed Roon Ready from the EX.
> 
> ...



Thanks for sharing your findings.  Which noise shaper did you try in HQP?  There are reports that this makes a big difference.  I have not done any experimenting on the noise shaper, just going with the recommendation of LNS15 for 16x upsampling.  Lower order shapers are better for less upscaling, but the whole point of HQP is to upscale to the limit of your DAC’s capability.

What was your CPU load when running HQP for PCM upscaling? Mine runs at 18% with sincM upscaling from 44.1 to 705kHz.

Did you have any problems with the USB handshake when running HQP at 16x upscaling?  I have found that if the TT2 is turned off and on again while the server is still running, the USB handshake fails and I get white noise through the DAC.  Problem is fixed by resetting HQP (press apply on the settings page).  I am curious to know if this is just a TT2 problem.


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## frankensmurf (Jun 2, 2020)

Progisus said:


> @Clive101 funny you should suggest that. I moved my core to another computer and removed the software from the EX. Very slight improvement in the soundstage. I do like having my core on the EX to drop the number of boxes. The core is a bit snappier on the Macbook Pro. Here is a little trick I have been using. Firstly I am the only user of HQP endpoints. I setup HQP with sdm, dsd256 to my rme adi-2 on its pi4 naa. I then setup HQP with pcm, sinc-m to my TT on it’s pi 4 naa. Then its a simple 2 clicks to change listening positions. Click 1 for sdm or pcm, click 2 for naa selection. Then apply.
> 
> BTW - I have done extensive mscaler / HQP comparisons but that was using different computers. Comparing HQP on the EX to HQP on a Macbook Pro to HQP on a nuc7i3 all to the same dac. There is definitely a difference. EX first, MBP second, Nuc last. All very very close but the EX opened up the midrange a touch more.


I'm curious about what you moved to, what's in between (networking and ethernet cables) and how you'd characterize the difference..  I have an EX, and honestly finding it a bit slow, although it's still new and I'm constantly ripping CDs, etc.

Of course, I've considered the CX [edit], but it's a lot of cash, and given that I already have an EtherRegen could I not save a bundle by just buying any old silent i7 (or just a Nucleus+) and keeping the EX on the the 'Clean' side of the ER?


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## frankensmurf

Progisus said:


> I think pcm is best for the chord dacs except Dave, as they just decimate dsd back to pcm anyway.


has anyone played with HQP into a PS Audio DirectStream? ...I'm guessing based on its topology that DSD upsampling might be more in line?


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## frankensmurf

Anyway, sorry for the multiple posts, new HFer, Antipodes owner here too. 

router > in-wall CAT7 > Blue Jeans Cat6 > EtherRegen > AudioQuest Cinnamon > Antipodes EX > Curious USB Cable > Antipodes P2 > PS Audio AC12 Silver HDMI > PS Audio DirectStream > (sometimes PS Audio BHK Preamp) > Focal SM9 pro studio monitors. 
Shure KSE1500, previously run from Hugo2.


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## Progisus

frankensmurf said:


> I'm curious about what you moved to, what's in between (networking and ethernet cables) and how you'd characterize the difference..  I have an EX, and honestly finding it a bit slow, although it's still new and I'm constantly ripping CDs, etc.
> 
> Of course, I've considered the EX, but it's a lot of cash, and given that I already have an EtherRegen could I not save a bundle by just buying any old silent i7 (or just a Nucleus+) and keeping the EX on the the 'Clean' side of the ER?


Welcome to head-fi. You’ll find a lot of good advice/info and a few rants. 

At present my core is on a MacbookPro. My library on an attached usb drive. This is ethernet to a switch and then my Velop sends wifi to an Airport Express which provides ethernet connection to the EX. I thought this might provide an ethernet break and cut any noise. My wifi is pretty bulletproof as it is connected backhaul by ethernet. The EX runs HQPlayer, naa and roon ready. For best sound I get rid of naa and roon ready but the convenience outweighs the improvement I feel. I have also had my core on the EX and it ran everything with no cpu stress.

I am running a Chord TT by usb from the EX to headphones. I have also tried my Hugo 2 but the TT is so much more musical and has more driving power.

I‘ve heard Directstream is an end game dac. I believe it converts to dsd?  I’m thinking HQPlayer pcm in would be best. You could try it as HQP runs for 30 min in demo mode.


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## Clive101 (Jun 2, 2020)

andrewd01 said:


> Thanks for sharing your findings.  Which noise shaper did you try in HQP?  There are reports that this makes a big difference.  I have not done any experimenting on the noise shaper, just going with the recommendation of LNS15 for 16x upsampling.  Lower order shapers are better for less upscaling, but the whole point of HQP is to upscale to the limit of your DAC’s capability.
> 
> What was your CPU load when running HQP for PCM upscaling? Mine runs at 18% with sincM upscaling from 44.1 to 705kHz.
> 
> Did you have any problems with the USB handshake when running HQP at 16x upscaling?  I have found that if the TT2 is turned off and on again while the server is still running, the USB handshake fails and I get white noise through the DAC.  Problem is fixed by resetting HQP (press apply on the settings page).  I am curious to know if this is just a TT2 problem.



I only tried the LNS15 as I have the Dave but will try some other settings when I have a rainy day (sunny at the moment and enjoying as much as I can) not too long away I fear.

Do you know how to find the CPU loadings on the CX or EX or does anyone else know how ?

I left Dave on all the time during trying HQP so again a rainy day.



frankensmurf said:


> I'm curious about what you moved to, what's in between (networking and ethernet cables) and how you'd characterize the difference..  I have an EX, and honestly finding it a bit slow, although it's still new and I'm constantly ripping CDs, etc.
> 
> Of course, I've considered the EX, but it's a lot of cash, and given that I already have an EtherRegen could I not save a bundle by just buying any old silent i7 (or just a Nucleus+) and keeping the EX on the the 'Clean' side of the ER?



With the CX EX combo I found no noticeable difference on the network side either with network cables or low noise network switches, I do however with other servers. I have posted a my findings on other threads.

I do find a difference with network cables between the CX and EX combo.

On the network side I use a Supra cat8 and between the CX and EX I used the supplied cable (which is the best sounding ethernet cable I found up to 2.5K).

"I've considered the EX" I presume you mean CX ? I have the same dilemma as I feel the two box system is better to lower noise and investigating if my Melco will possibly be Roon ready.

@Progisus I found the DirectStream for the price very good I had it on demo for a short time and it does a lot for one box and no preamp needed (plug straight into your amps) streams and pays. I compared to a Chord Dave (DAC preamp only) so not a fair comparison for cost or features but it did come out on top (IMHO) for SQ.
There is a full review by @austinpop here https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/reviews/ps-audio-directstream-dac-snowmass-full-review-r819/

Edit I found HQP plays for 60 mins before it needs a reset ?


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## andrewd01

Tony Devitt revealed how to check the CPU status in another forum.  It is a hidden feature.

On a browser go to Antipodes.online, and then click Configure and then click Apps.
In the title bar type the following after the IP address of the server:       /app_status.php


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## Whazzzup

there is also the light dot on roon to find processing speed


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## Whazzzup

ps direct stream isn't that a dsd dac, versus say chord which favours pcm?


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## frankensmurf

Clive101 said:


> I only tried the LNS15 as I have the Dave but will try some other settings when I have a rainy day (sunny at the moment and enjoying as much as I can) not too long away I fear.
> 
> Do you know how to find the CPU loadings on the CX or EX or does anyone else know how ?
> 
> ...


Yes, the DSD (DirectStream DAC) is a DSD DAC. @Whazzzup   It reclocks and upsamples all inputs to, I believe now, 20x DSD64, then outputs this waveform to a passive transformer output stage. As you likely know, it's also an FPGA DAC (like Chord), and (unlike Chord to my knowledge?) Ted Smith/PSA continuously refine the code and digital filtering, and release a free FPGA code update maybe once a year. So the value proposition is pretty compelling. 

Clive101 I was very interested to hear of your comparison between the DAVE (which def gets talked about a lot) and the DSD.. I consider them very different, but I (at least in my system with active monitors and beryllium tweeters) have always preferred the DSD sound to the DAVE even though the DAVE definitely has more 'detail'. As a listening preference, the sound of instruments (which is about body, timbre, overtone structure) is a lot more meaningful to me than detail (which can come down to mouse farts and chair  squeaks). I'm sure the DAVE sounds great in the right system -- it's obviously retrieving a ton of detail and is well engineered. It is also a clean-sheet design, whereas the DSD is actually kind of a retrofit of Ted Smith's DAC idea crammed into PS Audio's existing / previous PerfectWave DAC platform. That in itself is a remarkable bit of industrial engineering but I digress. 

For the PS Audio fanboys (I fell like I should be saying fanpeople, perhaps just fans), Ted Smith is perhaps months away from revealing the TSS (Ted Smith Signature) DAC, which is an all-out assault, two-chassis beast which should challenge the top stuff out there, price expected to comfortably exceed $20k. 

As far the DSD, I have compared my own and dealer models (its ubiquity makes it easier to compare to other DACs -- many dealers have one) many times, and I continuously prefer the DSD to substantially more expensive DACs (including, in some systems, the DAVE) and even when I've gone in with a spendy upgrade in mind, I've pulled back. Of course the convenience of the built-in Bridge streaming card is great, and also allows Roon to directly control the DAC's digital volume control (which given its 50? bits of resolution is very usable and not much of a compromise at all). 

However, it has only become an end-game DAC for me (as I dream about Bartoks or Rossinis) after I have started addressing my digital front-end -- a very popular topic indeed over at the PS Audio forums. Adding the EtherRegen to clean up the ethernet input into the DSD's Bridge input made a surprising difference. So.. I read some more.. The DSD is sensitive to USB cables and servers (like everything), it has an I2S-over-HDMI input, fascinating, etc., etc. Soo I've ended up finding a deal on an EX + P2 which -- hurray -- has I2S-over-HDMI out and supports the PS Audio pin-out, and the extent to which even USB (Curious Cable) out of the EX exceeded the naturalness, pace and musicality of EtherRegen into the DSD Bridge was surprising, and welcome. To be honest, I haven't done critical listening between the HDMI vs USB connections, but I do still need to *remove* the Bridge from the DSD and listen again. (If you think about it, removing a computer from your DAC is likely to have a positive impact on the noise floor). 

Anyway, yes, I did* mean the CX, I fixed the original post, and I'm fascinated by the details of your experience. Could the EtherRegen (connected to my known-dirty bog-standard network) possibly provide as much 'clean-up' as the CX itself? This is definitely not an apples-to-apples comparison. However, even if I unboxed a CX right now, I would actually now have a new question: Given that I have a network jack in the wall, let's say 4 or 5 reasonably-priced ethernet cables (by which I mean like $100 reasonable), do I go wall > EtherRegen > CX > EX > DAC? or wall > CX > EtherRegen > EX > DAC?


Oh look, I've created a rant. Sorry.


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## Progisus

Reading the Style review got me to thinking about front ends. So... I moved roon core back to EX, using HQP to upscale, output alsa to EX perfect usb and then one AQ cinnamon usb cable to TT and no front end at all to worry about. Voila.


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## andrewd01 (Jun 2, 2020)

Whazzzup said:


> there is also the light dot on roon to find processing speed



My light dot is always blue, so it is therefore not particularly informative.  But the good news is that 16x PCM upscaling is a very easy task for the EX even if also running the Roon core.  DSD upscaling would be more intensive, but Chord Dacs don’t need this since they down-convert to PCM anyway.


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## Whazzzup

try clicking on the dot and access roon dsp, device set up, signal path, processing speed and other goodies


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## Clive101

@andrewd01 Thanks for the tip on CPU status both the CX (6 cores with Roon Server) and EX (4 cores with Roon Ready) are running 1% average when playing.
When I added HQP it added about an extra 1% in standby. I output bit perfect from Roon.

@frankensmurf I could not find any difference using a network cable or network switch from the CX EX combo to my network although I did with another server so I guess the network ports on the  CX EX are doing some sort of filtration, two units so double the filtration ..? Others may be able to hear a difference but any small differences I am unable to detect. I do however find a difference between the CX and EX with ethernet cables, I did try the switches but no improvement. 
Regarding Dave, yes I get the point about detail vs musicality, I prefer musicality over detail. When I added the Mscaler it toned down Dave, detail still there but just more musical. Same reason why I purchased the CX EX vs Innuos Statement or Melco n10. At this level they are all good but personal choice comes into play more. 

I also tried my SOtM tX-USBultra USB with the combo powered by P Hynes power and realised it impacts its own the signature on to the CX EX combo as it did with the Melco.
I sold the SOtM for this reason, good I guess for some but I found the sound was better without it in the CX EX Combo, YMMV.

The more I try other products with the combo the more I realise no tinkering is needed, again YMMV, so for me becoming better value saving the cost of added hardware.


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## naynay

I see no point in buying an expensive network switch like say the Etherregen if you have the CX-EX combo as the CX acts as the network switch to eliminate noise before it enters the EX.
Sent my Etherregen back as heard no difference and after talking to Tony of Antipodes he has said the CX when combined with EX is designed to do just that.


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## Clive101

naynay said:


> I see no point in buying an expensive network switch like say the Etherregen if you have the CX-EX combo as the CX acts as the network switch to eliminate noise before it enters the EX.
> Sent my Etherregen back as heard no difference and after talking to Tony of Antipodes he has said the CX when combined with EX is designed to do just that.


Thanks for this post confirming... I was going mad trying to hear the difference of a 2k switch at least I know my hearing is not defective


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## frankensmurf

It's actually a relief to think that the CX - EX sufficiently cleans up the ethernet signal that you wouldn't be able to hear upstream switch changes. With that said, there are a lot of people in forums with extremely lengthy lists of equipment in their digital chains : D 

Anyway, has anyone tried that experiment with the EX alone? I will do so when I have some time to do critical listening.


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## andrewd01

frankensmurf said:


> It's actually a relief to think that the CX - EX sufficiently cleans up the ethernet signal that you wouldn't be able to hear upstream switch changes. With that said, there are a lot of people in forums with extremely lengthy lists of equipment in their digital chains : D
> 
> Anyway, has anyone tried that experiment with the EX alone? I will do so when I have some time to do critical listening.



I am running a Cisco 2960 switch into my stand-alone EX.  I initially took the switch out in the interest of simplicity, but I thought this deteriorated the sound so I put the Cisco back in line.  I mostly listen to Tidal streaming.

I tested the supplied black ethernet cable for two weeks, but have now switched back to my Supra cable.  The differences are very small and both cables sound good.  I thought the supplied cable had more detail and the supra has a touch more warmth.

It would be interesting to hear a high end switch like the Jcat M12 Gold, since these get glowing reviews.  But the price is not that far off a used CX.  Annoyingly there is one on the market in the UK for a good price, but my toy fund is depleted for now!


----------



## Progisus

I’m trying a bit of EX/CX emulation. The CX is being emulated by a NUC running roon core. An ethernet cable from my router/switch into the EX. The black supplied ethernet cable from network 2 to the NUC. It sounds marginally better without the roon core on the EX. The NUC is a 7i3 with 128 m2 running roon rock and 8gb ram. The library is on a usb drive. Roon core runs a bit quicker. If I decide to keep the core on the NUC then I would probably move the ssd from the EX to the NUC. This does add another box but a CX would as well. Fun!


----------



## Progisus

Update online for HQPembedded with sinc-l.


----------



## frankensmurf

andrewd01 said:


> I am running a Cisco 2960 switch into my stand-alone EX.  I initially took the switch out in the interest of simplicity, but I thought this deteriorated the sound so I put the Cisco back in line.  I mostly listen to Tidal streaming.
> 
> I tested the supplied black ethernet cable for two weeks, but have now switched back to my Supra cable.  The differences are very small and both cables sound good.  I thought the supplied cable had more detail and the supra has a touch more warmth.
> 
> It would be interesting to hear a high end switch like the Jcat M12 Gold, since these get glowing reviews.  But the price is not that far off a used CX.  Annoyingly there is one on the market in the UK for a good price, but my toy fund is depleted for now!


Thanks, interesting info. 

I have the Uptone Audio EtherRegen, at a much lower price point. It made a noticeable difference when I was using the Bridge II ethernet input to my PS Audio DirectStream. It's still connected to the EX, but I haven't swapped it out. I'll report back.


----------



## Clive101

andrewd01 said:


> I am running a Cisco 2960 switch into my stand-alone EX.  I initially took the switch out in the interest of simplicity, but I thought this deteriorated the sound so I put the Cisco back in line.  I mostly listen to Tidal streaming.
> 
> I tested the supplied black ethernet cable for two weeks, but have now switched back to my Supra cable.  The differences are very small and both cables sound good.  I thought the supplied cable had more detail and the supra has a touch more warmth.
> 
> It would be interesting to hear a high end switch like the Jcat M12 Gold, since these get glowing reviews.  But the price is not that far off a used CX.  Annoyingly there is one on the market in the UK for a good price, but my toy fund is depleted for now!



Interesting you found a slight difference with the stand alone EX (I have not tried with either a CX or EX standalone) but I could not find any difference with the two boxes joined together.

My strong advice before would be try the CX and the switch with the EX on demo I would be very surprised if you ended up with the switch instead of the CX.

I disconected the CX EX combo from the network while playing files and streaming (got around ten seconds or so before it disconnected) and could not hear any difference.

If any one wants to sell me the standared cable EX CX black cable please let me know. I would like a spare.


----------



## andrewd01

Progisus said:


> Update online for HQPembedded with sinc-l.



Thanks, I just installed.  From a quick perusal of the Roon thread I understand sinc-L runs at 2M taps for 16x PCM upscaling.
Listening tests tonight...


----------



## Progisus

andrewd01 said:


> Thanks, I just installed.  From a quick perusal of the Roon thread I understand sinc-L runs at 2M taps for 16x PCM upscaling.
> Listening tests tonight...


I’m liking it into my Hugo TT.


----------



## andrewd01

I have just listened to a few tracks so far and initial impressions are very positive.  I will listen a lot more and then try swapping back to sinc-M.
Who’s going to volunteer to break the news in the M scaler thread that HQP is now doing 2M taps?


----------



## Progisus

Today I’m back to poly-sinc-long-lp. That was my favorite for a long while and what I was using when I decided to switch to HQP from the mscaler. Sinc-L was a bit harsh in the upper mids and hi’s to my ears today. Mood has more effect than anything and the beauty of HQP is the ability to make changes that play to your mood. The CX emulation seems to be success. I think it will stay. I still have the opportunity to change my upgrade order from a TT2 to a CX.


----------



## andrewd01

I think I would prioritise TT2 over CX in your shoes, but until you actually get these things in your system and try its difficult to know which has the most bang for buck.  Shop demos are not great because there are so many other variables in play.


----------



## Progisus

How often do you Antipodes owners power down (not just reboot)? Do you find a sound change after re-powering?

I power down (Including my dac) every three to four days. I feel it refreshes the sound and seems to remove a sense of congestion.


----------



## andrewd01

I power down after every session now, because with HQP at 16x upscaling there are USB handshake problems if I only power down the DAC only.  The inconvenience is a small price to pay for the improved sound of HQP.


----------



## andrewd01

andrewd01 said:


> I power down after every session now, because with HQP at 16x upscaling there are USB handshake problems if I only power down the DAC only.  The inconvenience is a small price to pay for the improved sound of HQP.



Progsius, Now that you have a TT2, can you do this test for me:
- wIth HQP running on the EX configured with 16x PCM upscaling and the TT2 set as the receiving DAC, put the TT2 on standby while leaving on the server.
- Restart the TT2 and wait for it to initialise.
- Play a track through HQP.

Do you get any handshake issues?  This will appear as a static noise, no music playback at all.  It can be fixed by clicking apply on the settings page of HQP.


----------



## Progisus

andrewd01 said:


> Progsius, Now that you have a TT2, can you do this test for me:
> - wIth HQP running on the EX configured with 16x PCM upscaling and the TT2 set as the receiving DAC, put the TT2 on standby while leaving on the server.
> - Restart the TT2 and wait for it to initialise.
> - Play a track through HQP.
> ...


Yes I sure did. Then I turned off TT2 and then put EX in standby.  Started up TT2 and waited for end of bootup. Then restarted EX. Once it rebooted things were back to normal. The reinitialize of hqp also works. Tony from Antipodes says the 5v signal is needed to establish handshake only once. If it gets it it does not look again unless HQPlayer asks. It only does this on reboot of hqplayer. Very annoying. Maybe Jussi could look for the 5v before starting to play.


----------



## F208Frank

Hello fellow antipodes and server owners.

If you were to choose from a general stand point is a better amp more important or a better server more important?

If I had to guess I would choose amp, what's your choice and why?


----------



## Progisus

F208Frank said:


> Hello fellow antipodes and server owners.
> 
> If you were to choose from a general stand point is a better amp more important or a better server more important?
> 
> If I had to guess I would choose amp, what's your choice and why?


I would go with server as the signal needs to be the best it can be before amplification. But I am a headphone user except in the theatre.


----------



## F208Frank (Jun 25, 2020)

Progisus said:


> I would go with server as the signal needs to be the best it can be before amplification. But I am a headphone user except in the theatre.


I'm primarily a headphone user as well. My opinion is that my OCD would prefer to get signal right to set a strong foundation but real world results seems like bang for buck is most to be had with amp over server. (As in more noticeable change when changing amps vs changing servers)

With that said, my current set up my server costs more than my amp so I do what makes me feel foundation being strong first as I have OCD and this satisfied it.

Discussions/disagreements/agreements welcome.


----------



## Clive101 (Jun 26, 2020)

@F208Frank  Looking at your signature you're using the Dave as the amp if this is correct I would suggest getting a demo of a Woo WA33
Or upgrade to the Elite version with JPS. Those TC,s will be singing with the WA33 and Woo are in New York....so you could pick up


----------



## Whazzzup

music server, music server, music server. Thats the foundation, make it a mo fo of a foundation, its the beginning the end and middle. Then build the frame around this.


----------



## F208Frank

Clive101 said:


> @F208Frank  Looking at your signature you're using the Dave as the amp if this is correct I would suggest getting a demo of a Woo WA33
> Or upgrade to the Elite version with JPS. Those TC,s will be singing with the WA33 and Woo are in New York....so you could pick up


I actually had the Elite WA33 with all upgraded tubes. I let it go and am quite sad. 

If you were to out into words how would you describe straight out of DAVE vs WA33 since you have that?


----------



## Clive101

F208Frank said:


> I actually had the Elite WA33 with all upgraded tubes. I let it go and am quite sad.
> 
> If you were to out into words how would you describe straight out of DAVE vs WA33 since you have that?



Sorry to see you sold the Elite I am about to order an Elite with JPS wire.
Dave without the WA33 sounds flat after the WA33 I could not go back to just Dave or Dave Msacler for that matter.
I have upgraded Tubes recently even better I only hope the Elite JPS gives a good improvement.
Have you tried the WA33 before the Elite if so how did it  compare ?


----------



## andrewd01

Progisus said:


> Yes I sure did. Then I turned off TT2 and then put EX in standby.  Started up TT2 and waited for end of bootup. Then restarted EX. Once it rebooted things were back to normal. The reinitialize of hqp also works. Tony from Antipodes says the 5v signal is needed to establish handshake only once. If it gets it it does not look again unless HQPlayer asks. It only does this on reboot of hqplayer. Very annoying. Maybe Jussi could look for the 5v before starting to play.



Thanks for testing. Good to know its not just me.  I get around the issue by booting my EX after TT2 has initialised for each listening session.  It is not ideal and I hope Jussi and/or Antipodes can investigate further.


----------



## andrewd01

F208Frank said:


> Hello fellow antipodes and server owners.
> 
> If you were to choose from a general stand point is a better amp more important or a better server more important?
> 
> If I had to guess I would choose amp, what's your choice and why?



I agree with the other posts, digital source is critical.


----------



## F208Frank

Clive101 said:


> Sorry to see you sold the Elite I am about to order an Elite with JPS wire.
> Dave without the WA33 sounds flat after the WA33 I could not go back to just Dave or Dave Msacler for that matter.
> I have upgraded Tubes recently even better I only hope the Elite JPS gives a good improvement.
> Have you tried the WA33 before the Elite if so how did it  compare ?


I went straight to Elite. From others they said Elite much better but not sure if reliable. I did test the standard WA33 at CanJam briefly and it was still good.


----------



## frankensmurf

naynay said:


> I see no point in buying an expensive network switch like say the Etherregen if you have the CX-EX combo as the CX acts as the network switch to eliminate noise before it enters the EX.
> Sent my Etherregen back as heard no difference and after talking to Tony of Antipodes he has said the CX when combined with EX is designed to do just that.


I should hope so. A friend of mine who owns the Innuos Statement just ordered an EtherRegen (after I told him about mine). I'll be very interested to see if he hears a difference into his M-Scaler> DAVE > Naim 500 series bi-amped > Kudos.


----------



## F208Frank

frankensmurf said:


> I should hope so. A friend of mine who owns the Innuos Statement just ordered an EtherRegen (after I told him about mine). I'll be very interested to see if he hears a difference into his M-Scaler> DAVE > Naim 500 series bi-amped > Kudos.


Please update us, thank you.


----------



## Progisus

I’ve started using the EX as a Plex server as well as roon. I’m happy to say the cpu useage remains below 25% even when streaming movies with Dolby Atmos or DTS-X passthrough audio. So now it runs roon, hqplayer, plex mini-dlna without breaking a sweat. The hqplayer is streaming to a pi-4 naa which is usb to the TT2. The pi-4 is probably the weak point.

Is anyone else using Plex on their Antipodes.


----------



## andrewd01

Never heard of Plex


----------



## Progisus

HQPlayer 4.18.1 update is available.


----------



## andrewd01

I ran the update and rebooted, but in my HQP about page it still says I have 4.18.0


----------



## Whazzzup

I’m staying with roon in my DX.  If I got to think about it I generally don’t do it.


----------



## Progisus

andrewd01 said:


> I ran the update and rebooted, but in my HQP about page it still says I have 4.18.0


When you ran the update did the updating page say it was downloading the HQP package? Sometimes it doesn’t make connection to the sonicorbiter site.


----------



## andrewd01

Yes, I even saw the message that 4.18.1 was installing


----------



## andrewd01

Just tried software update again and it is still the same.  Can you double check that you see 4.18.1 in the About page in HQP settings?


----------



## andrewd01

Whazzzup said:


> I’m staying with roon in my DX.  If I got to think about it I generally don’t do it.



 Roon can be a bit of a faff to update too when they release new versions.


----------



## Progisus

andrewd01 said:


> Just tried software update again and it is still the same.  Can you double check that you see 4.18.1 in the About page in HQP settings?


You are correct. About 4.18.0 Software Manager 4.18.1


----------



## andrewd01

Progisus said:


> You are correct. About 4.18.0 Software Manager 4.18.1



Yes I sent an email to Tony Devitt.  It seems that I do indeed have 4.18.1.  It looks like that the About page hasn’t been updated.  No doubt a trivial coding error.  Seems like a more reliable method of checking which version is installed is to go to the software manager and then click the installed Apps tab.


----------



## andrewd01

Whoa, complete new range!!  Hopefully this will bring some nice used CX’s on to the market.
https://antipodes.audio/antipodes-music-servers.php


----------



## Progisus

andrewd01 said:


> Whoa, complete new range!!  Hopefully this will bring some nice used CX’s on to the market.
> https://antipodes.audio/antipodes-music-servers.php


That’s a lot to digest. Quite a drastic course change.


----------



## Whazzzup

Wow, times they are a changing.


----------



## andrewd01

Some thoughts:
- It’s a pity they didn’t consider a dual BNC output from the reclocker to support upscaled PCM.  
- S series looks like it makes EX/CX performance accessible at a lower price but external psu makes it a messy install.
- Its a pity they have dropped the brushed aluminium finish because it looks way better than black in the CX/EX range.  At least the branding is more discreet on the black finished units.
- K30 looks to be the most interesting product in the range for me.

I think my next upgrade will be to seek out a used CX to add to my EX.


----------



## Clive101

@andrewd01 thanks for your post I was about to push the button on a second CX EX combo  

Yes I am with you of the only black version I much prefer the silver and it's going to be a deal breaker for me...sadly unless the silver becomes available.

K30 for me as well as I do not need a re-clocker along with with the added external connections. Any idea if the re-clocker works on any internal parts as well as external as it may be worth considering the extra cost ?

The K50 also gives three drive bays instead of two also not required by me.

One thing the CX EX combo gives is the double filtration as two ethernet connections and I wonder if the K30 and K50 has better filtration as only one connection for internet streaming ?

Again I also agree the S-Series very messy with power bricks or a separate power supply three boxes or four if you need the external clock !

Any one with a singular CX or EX snap one up quick the added performance is stellar and if they go in short supply could keep their value....

I am thinking of changing the title include the K and S Series any objections anyone ?


----------



## andrewd01

There’s quite a bit of technical info on the antipodes site in the support section.
It seems that one of the benefits is a new hybrid linear/switching power supply in the K series and S60 external PSU, whereas CX/EX both have linear PSU’s.
The K50 gets three independent PSU’s but K30 only gets one to power both server and player engine.  So even if you don't want to use the reclocked outputs K50 will probably sound better than K30.  It will not be cheap however, most likely $20k after tax or £20k in uk.

It will be very interesting to read reviews when these get in circulation.  However I am in no rush to trade my EX.  There is a nice used CX available now, but I only have budget for one big spend item like this per year.  I am hoping that the new models will put downward pressure on the used prices for current models.


----------



## andrewd01

Clive101 said:


> @andrewd01 thanks for your post I was about to push the button on a second CX EX combo
> 
> 
> I am thinking of changing the title include the K and S Series any objections anyone ?



I think its probably best to make it a generic catch-all thread for all generations of Antipodes servers, since it is quite a small user group.


----------



## Whazzzup

K50 for myself, if I felt the need, but I don’t right now or the foreseeable future.  Concerning title change I had a simililar dilemma , I’d keep the cx ex title and wait for someone that buys a k whatever to start a new thread like you guys did. But just an idea, it’s difficult to have a thread without anyone who actually has one.


----------



## Clive101 (Aug 2, 2020)

Definitely keeping the CX EX in the title just wanted to add in the newer models until a new thread appears, problem... if I get the K30 or K50 I be all on my own...

Looking at the user manuals very similar in set up, guess all products will have the similar experiences in the future.

I have put in an email to Antipodes regarding some questions I have.

On Monday I will enquire with the dealer when I can have a demo.

Problem is I want silver not black.

For me the K50 and the K30 should the same SQ, the clock may only be only for external connections in which case I am all in for a silver K30 otherwise the K50.

Edit I See the difference "
The full-width Antipodes K30 is the entry model to the premium K-Series and is designed to deliver a large chunk of the K50's performance at a more affordable price.

The Antipodes K30 integrates two separately powered and isolated computation engines:"

K50 for me


----------



## Progisus

I would like to see only one Antipodes thread as the user base will be small. Just retired this year so I doubt I would upgrade unless they had some sort of trade in offer.


----------



## andrewd01

In the FAQ there is an indication that there might be an upgrade scheme to have some of the new tech installed in legacy products.  Perhaps this means you could get the new power supply and/or new main board installed in your CX or EX.


----------



## Whazzzup

considering the blistering product line changes antipodes should offer some type of upgrade path that would reward loyalty within the brand. i mean its been 3 years since i asked the question what's the best way to receive bits to ones DAC. since then DT GS and DX move over for EX and CX move over for n50. Course I'm not complaining, improving the offerings is positive and lets face it, the sounds really good from dx to cx. Still tho some loyalty path would be good.


----------



## naynay (Aug 3, 2020)

Old news so deleted.


----------



## cczero17

Hey there. Fellow Antipodes owner here, having the CX/EX Solution.

I see a few also use Hqplayer here too. Up until recently, I have been set on PCM 352.8/384 Poly Sinc ext2 and LNS15. Ive recently changed my PSU for my switch to a FARAD Super 3 which really changed the dynamic. With that, what I found quite a flat filter (Sinc-M) truly came to life and is my now preferred filter.

I thought I would see how DSD would compare and I selected 5644800, Sinc-M and ASDM7EC modulator. My DAC is an R2R so I was expecting tit to perform best with PCM, however its not what I heard. even at a lower rate, I found DSD more musical and 3 dimensional (My DAC is limited to PCM 384 or DSD128)

Using Sinc-M LNS15 for PCM 352.8/384 is a total breeze for the CX, however using the DSD settings above truly gives the Cores a work out. Its gone from a leisurely stroll at around 7 - 10% load to 75% load! What ive found with this is that the CX gets very very hot and the green light starts to dim (sort of flash under load). Ive dialled back the bit rate to 3072000 and the load has come right down to around mid 30s and the green light seems stable. The unit is still hot but not to extent it was.

Has anyone else had experiences with DSD in hqplayer? Have you seen the same issues?

Whilst im here, after the news of the K and S series was released, I asked about how they fared against our units. What they did also state is as follows:

"But note this. We are working on developing the parts and processes to enable us to launch an upgrade program for the CX and EX later in 2020. There is quite a lot of work to do before we can launch the program, but it is our policy to offer all new technology innovations in upgrades to our legacy products. There are some exceptions, in terms of which models can be upgraded, but we endeavour to minimise the exceptions as much as possible. An upgraded CX or EX will be very competitive, and the improvement will be very significant. The improvement will be even greater for DX and DS owners."

This was a facebook conversation so its not something that would be secret

Bill


----------



## andrewd01

cczero17 said:


> Hey there. Fellow Antipodes owner here, having the CX/EX Solution.
> 
> I see a few also use Hqplayer here too. Up until recently, I have been set on PCM 352.8/384 Poly Sinc ext2 and LNS15. Ive recently changed my PSU for my switch to a FARAD Super 3 which really changed the dynamic. With that, what I found quite a flat filter (Sinc-M) truly came to life and is my now preferred filter.
> 
> ...



Thanks for sharing your experiences.  What are you powering with the Farad?  I am also curious to know what DAC you are running.  Most of the other antipodes users on this thread are running Chord DAC’s, which prefer PCM.


----------



## Kapiti

Following a request from a member, I have joined this site and am watching this thread to answer questions.  I am not sure how frequently I will be able to contribute, but let's give this a try.

Mark Jenkins, Antipodes Audio Limited.


----------



## cczero17 (Aug 4, 2020)

andrewd01 said:


> Thanks for sharing your experiences.  What are you powering with the Farad?  I am also curious to know what DAC you are running.  Most of the other antipodes users on this thread are running Chord DAC’s, which prefer PCM.


Hi,

My DAC is the Aqua La Scala MK2 Optologic R2R.

The FARAD is powering the SOtM Snh-10g switch. Quite an upgrade in sound quality over the SOtM sp500 strangely.

I know the Antipodes units aren't cheap but I'm glad I invested in their units. Very good products


----------



## Progisus

cczero17 said:


> Hey there. Fellow Antipodes owner here, having the CX/EX Solution.
> 
> I see a few also use Hqplayer here too. Up until recently, I have been set on PCM 352.8/384 Poly Sinc ext2 and LNS15. Ive recently changed my PSU for my switch to a FARAD Super 3 which really changed the dynamic. With that, what I found quite a flat filter (Sinc-M) truly came to life and is my now preferred filter.
> 
> ...


One of the CX/EX users on the roon forum also had the heating issues when doing hi rate dsd. I run roon core and hqplayer on my EX but pcm only. Cool as a cucumber. Are you the same Bill by chance?


----------



## Progisus

Kapiti said:


> Following a request from a member, I have joined this site and am watching this thread to answer questions.  I am not sure how frequently I will be able to contribute, but let's give this a try.
> 
> Mark Jenkins, Antipodes Audio Limited.


Hi @Kapiti . Thanks for taking the time to join our little group of Antipodes users. It’s good to see in these uncertain times that Antipodes is able to bring a new line to market. Music certainly has made things more bearable.


----------



## F208Frank

Welcome Mark and thanks for joining. What is your most reccomended ethernet cable for the CX EX set up?


----------



## cczero17 (Aug 4, 2020)

Progisus said:


> One of the CX/EX users on the roon forum also had the heating issues when doing hi rate dsd. I run roon core and hqplayer on my EX but pcm only. Cool as a cucumber. Are you the same Bill by chance?



Hey..indeed I am  As I say, it's only using DSD and certain taxing filters and modulators. The SQ if great but the unit itself doesn't seem to like it (light starts flickering) if 75% of Core activity is used. PCM is a walk in the park for them though


----------



## Whazzzup

DX doesn’t run hot, dsd 128 was slow and occasional drop outs, dsd 64 was fine.  However because of chord dacs I use max pcm


----------



## Progisus

Whazzzup said:


> DX doesn’t run hot, dsd 128 was slow and occasional drop outs, dsd 64 was fine.  However because of chord dacs I use max pcm


Do you use hqplayer for dsp or roon’s dsp?


----------



## Whazzzup

Progisus said:


> Do you use hqplayer for dsp or roon’s dsp?


roon still


----------



## cczero17 (Aug 4, 2020)

Whazzzup said:


> DX doesn’t run hot, dsd 128 was slow and occasional drop outs, dsd 64 was fine.  However because of chord dacs I use max pcm


Roon is quite light for dsd, however it's just upsampling. Hqplayer has filters and modulators to go with it. It's those that are making the CPU work harder but sounds stunning


----------



## cczero17

Whazzzup said:


> considering the blistering product line changes antipodes should offer some type of upgrade path that would reward loyalty within the brand. i mean its been 3 years since i asked the question what's the best way to receive bits to ones DAC. since then DT GS and DX move over for EX and CX move over for n50. Course I'm not complaining, improving the offerings is positive and lets face it, the sounds really good from dx to cx. Still tho some loyalty path would be good.



Antipodes are working on developing the parts and processes to enable to launch an upgrade program for the CX and EX later in 2020


----------



## naynay

cczero17 said:


> Hey..indeed I am  As I say, it's only using DSD and certain taxing filters and modulators. The SQ if great but the unit itself doesn't seem to like it (light starts flickering) if 75% of Core activity is used. PCM is a walk in the park for them though


Which unit are you referring to that flickers CX or EX


----------



## Whazzzup (Aug 4, 2020)

For the kumbaya, now it’s a community


----------



## cczero17

naynay said:


> Which unit are you referring to that flickers CX or EX



Hi, my CX is doing this but only if the Cores are under a hefty load (if 75% average is hefty). As I say, its only when I'm using Sinc-M (Million Taps) ASDM7EC Modulator and 56684000/6144000 rate limits. The EX hovers around 1%. Ive had to pull the rate limit down to 3072000 (keeping the same filter/modulator) to have a stable light and average core load of 25 - 35%. Im guessing its linked to the internal temps.

If however using PCM, a high rate of 352.8/384 again using Sinc-M with LNS15, the Core loads are very low, under 10%

Even using a bit rate thats dsd64, using the the combo of Sinc-M /ASDM7EC, Im finding that prefer the sonics better than PCM at 352.8/384 with Sinc-M LNS15. Ideally I would like to up the rate to be DSD128 but I dont think the hardware would thank me for it.

Im hoping the new upgrades will help with this amongst other benefits

Bill


----------



## Clive101 (Aug 7, 2020)

@Kapiti Hello Mark,
If I may ask a few questions.
When will the new K and S series range be available also can they be ordered in silver ?
As I do not need the external outputs on the K50 is it possible to order without the clock with a cost saving as the extra power may come in handy ?
Running HQ player (upscaling) with Roon, is it better install on the server board or player board as these are seen as two computers and do not wish to have two licences ?
Thank you.


----------



## Progisus

There is some interesting Antipodes discussion on Stereo net.

https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/90178-antipodes-owners-and-discussion-thread/


----------



## Whazzzup (Aug 7, 2020)

-;


----------



## Kapiti (Aug 7, 2020)

Clive101 said:


> @Kapiti Hello Mark,
> If I may ask a few questions.
> When will the new K and S series range be available also can they be ordered in silver ?
> As I do not need the external outputs on the K50 is it possible to order without the clock with a cost saving as the extra power may come in handy ?
> ...


The first production run of K and S series was over-subscribed by our vendors and we are shipping them as fast as we can right now.  Perhaps allow two weeks from now for shipping (slow in these COVID-19 times) and for our vendors to get some experience with them.

There would not be much saving by excluding the reclocker, less than 10%, so we did not consider it a meaningful variation.

HQPlayer is an oddball one.  Best to install HQPlayer Server Embedded on the Server engine and HQPlayer NAA on the Player engine, to get the benefits of separation of duties.


----------



## Clive101

Kapiti said:


> The first production run of K and S series was over-subscribed by our vendors and we are shipping them as fast as we can right now.  Perhaps allow two weeks from now for shipping (slow in these COVID-19 times) and for our vendors to get some experience with them.
> 
> There would not be much saving by excluding the reclocker, less than 10%, so we did not consider it a meaningful variation.
> 
> HQPlayer is an oddball one.  Best to install HQPlayer Server Embedded on the Server engine and HQPlayer NAA on the Player engine, to get the benefits of separation of duties.


Thanks Mark,
With the CX EX combo and Roon I seemed to remember only installing the HQPlayer server is it still the case I need both NAA and the HQPlayer server with Roon and Roon ready?
Any news on the silver ?
The CX EX combo ends up using two Ethernet connections and hence filtration from network noise (I assume) the K50 only needs one ethernet connection does it have the same or better filtration from network noise ?


----------



## Progisus

Clive101 said:


> Thanks Mark,
> With the CX EX combo and Roon I seemed to remember only installing the HQPlayer server is it still the case I need both NAA and the HQPlayer server with Roon and Roon ready?
> Any news on the silver ?
> The CX EX combo ends up using two Ethernet connections and hence filtration from network noise (I assume) the K50 only needs one ethernet connection does it have the same or better filtration from network noise ?


With Roon and HQPlayer server on the CX you would still need naa on the EX.  HQPlayer will only talk to the naa. You would only need roon ready on the EX if you wanted to bypass HQP for some reason. I hope I understood your question.


----------



## andrewd01

Kapiti said:


> The first production run of K and S series was over-subscribed by our vendors and we are shipping them as fast as we can right now.  Perhaps allow two weeks from now for shipping (slow in these COVID-19 times) and for our vendors to get some experience with them.
> 
> There would not be much saving by excluding the reclocker, less than 10%, so we did not consider it a meaningful variation.
> 
> HQPlayer is an oddball one.  Best to install HQPlayer Server Embedded on the Server engine and HQPlayer NAA on the Player engine, to get the benefits of separation of duties.




The confusing thing about HQP is that they call it a server when it is actually a renderer when used in combination with Roon.  My understanding of this is based on the Antipodes user guide for installing Roon/HQP (v2 software).  This was a very nice document, hopefully it gets updated for the new software.

  If using the Roon/HQP combination I would of thought you would have your Roon core on the server engine and embedded HQP on the player.  You would then run HQP with the Alsa back end, unless you want to switch playback options, in which case you would run Naa.  The HQP renderer is a substantial improvement over Roon Ready for my Chord TT2.  I never want to go back to other players so I run Alsa mode for the simplest installation possible.


----------



## Progisus

andrewd01 said:


> The confusing thing about HQP is that they call it a server when it is actually a renderer when used in combination with Roon.  My understanding of this is based on the Antipodes user guide for installing Roon/HQP (v2 software).  This was a very nice document, hopefully it gets updated for the new software.
> 
> If using the Roon/HQP combination I would of thought you would have your Roon core on the server engine and embedded HQP on the player.  You would then run HQP with the Alsa back end, unless you want to switch playback options, in which case you would run Naa.  The HQP renderer is a substantial improvement over Roon Ready for my Chord TT2.  I never want to go back to other players so I run Alsa mode for the simplest installation possible.


Well said!

I run my roon core and hqp (alsa) on my EX with usb to TT2.

Neat experiment I saw to test if your network is adding noise. Get a tune playing, listen for a bit and then remove the ethernet cable to the EX (CX for combo system). Listen for changes. None for me. Ymmv


----------



## Clive101 (Aug 8, 2020)

@Progisus @andrewd01 @Kapiti
Thank you all for your help.
I currently have the CX and EX split so unable to set up for a short time, shortly they will be reunited...they sadly miss each other.
I shall retry the HQPlayer as a renderer on the EX in alsa mode.
I assume the  EX powerful enough and does anyone use upscaling with and without the Chord Mscaler  ?


----------



## Clive101

Today I installed HQPlayer (alsa mode) on the EX with Roon Core also running on the EX.

I had problems switching to Roon Ready as Roon was unable to connect to Roon Ready when HQPlayer was installed.

I have to remove HQPlayer and Roon Ready then reinstall Roon Ready to get Roon Ready working again..!

Can Roon switch back and forth between Roon Ready and HQPlayer for quick comparison in SQ ?

Also anyone tried power cables with the CX and EX did the SQ change ?


----------



## Whazzzup

I put a monster ac12 power chord on my DX, can't really say there was any difference, but it looked cool, makes me feel good that a chord  that could power a aircraft carrier is on my server. it doesn't bend much tho


----------



## frankensmurf

Whazzzup said:


> I put a monster ac12 power chord on my DX, can't really say there was any difference, but it looked cool, makes me feel good that a chord  that could power a aircraft carrier is on my server. it doesn't bend much tho


The AC12 is indeed a monster -- makes a huge difference on my DAC and preamp (both PS Audio). Haven't tried on my EX or EtherRegen. Interesting to hear your results -- thks for sharing.


----------



## Whazzzup

Don’t forget I’m over 50, don’t have a golden ear. I have learned a lot and did a/b all along the way. Found stuff I liked better and kept Those.... but i found power chords, linear power conditioners and Ethernet sound cables the least noticeable differences, although they may be there I can’t tell. Now that didn’t stop me from upgrading chords, conditioners, and Ethernet. My thoughts with this level when in doubt, upgrade anyways. Lol


----------



## Progisus

Clive101 said:


> Today I installed HQPlayer (alsa mode) on the EX with Roon Core also running on the EX.
> 
> I had problems switching to Roon Ready as Roon was unable to connect to Roon Ready when HQPlayer was installed.
> 
> ...


If you want to be able switch between roonready and hqplayer then you will need to:
1) install hqplayer naa
2) install roonready
3) use the appswitcher to select naa
4) set hqp to use network and apply
5) set the naa to your dac on usb and apply
6) make sure the roonready is set for usb
7) use app switcher to select between roonready and naa
8) roonready will only show as an endpoint when it is active by the switcher

Hope this helps


----------



## andrewd01

frankensmurf said:


> The AC12 is indeed a monster -- makes a huge difference on my DAC and preamp (both PS Audio). Haven't tried on my EX or EtherRegen. Interesting to hear your results -- thks for sharing.




I have an AC12.  It is like a trans-atlantic cable or an umbilical cable used in a subsea oil field.  The cable is so heavy and inflexible that the EX half floated in the air without resting on its feet (probably made worse by the fact that my AC12 is only 1 metre).  I was concerned about putting undue strain on the AC socket of my EX so I removed the AC12 and  used the lower spec AC5 which at least has some flexibility.  I have not made any AB comparisons with a standard cable, but since I already had a Ps Audio P5 powerplant and the power cables I figured I may as well use them.


----------



## Whazzzup

Thank goodness I got six feet so it could actually bend and work, but I had to take a metal weed grinder that was the perfect hight to put under it for support or it would torque the plug right out of the DX. I guess not a practice power chord the ac12


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## Clive101 (Aug 15, 2020)

@Progisus Thank you for your help.

Today I managed to get it working I must admit it was a bit of a flaky install as it takes Roon a while to see the endpoints when you switch, I almost gave up.

I have more listening to do but what fails to amaze me is that so far it beats Roon Ready and is a third party renderer !

I would STRONGLY advise others to try out HQPlayer as a renderer with Roon, at the moment I have set to no upscaling, all set to none to be a fair playing field.

I will come back with more of an overall view when I get more time with HQPlayer looks like I be spending some more cash shortly.


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## andrewd01 (Aug 15, 2020)

Clive, Looking forward to your thoughts comparing HQP upscaling to your m scaler.  I am currently running Sinc-L (2M taps) with LNS15 noise shaper.


----------



## Progisus

andrewd01 said:


> Clive, Looking forward to your thoughts comparing HQP upscaling to your m scaler.  I am currently running Sinc-L (2M taps) with LNS15 noise shaper.


I was wondering what genre you prefer and how sinc-L might apply. I am a Prog fan and like sinc-m. I’m going to give sinc-L another listen.


----------



## andrewd01

To be honest I haven't done a rigorous comparison.  I was using Sinc-M for a while and liked it.  When Sinc-L came out I tried it and I think I liked it a bit more.  I like a mixture of genres, but typically more relaxed stuff: folk, acoustic, jazz etc.


----------



## naynay

Not took a lot of notice with the new line up of Antipodes Music servers but was just having a look is the S40 a replacement to the CX as it is a fair bit cheaper?


----------



## andrewd01 (Aug 22, 2020)

naynay said:


> Not took a lot of notice with the new line up of Antipodes Music servers but was just having a look is the S40 a replacement to the CX as it is a fair bit cheaper?



The antipodes web site has prices before import taxes and tariffs etc.  I have not seen any confirmed prices on retailer web sites yet.
Import duties and tariffs can add a lot to the price.

Edit -Just found that Elite audio have updated their site.  It looks like the UK prices in £ are the same as the antipodes web site price in $.  So S40 will be £5000 or £7000 with the fancy power supply.  Not exactly cheap!


----------



## Whazzzup

Nothing in Canada. Hifi centre in Vancouver Has no antipodes listed as if they are waiting for the new line.


----------



## andrewd01

The good news is that there is a good chance of picking up a traded CX or EX from authorised dealers.
I think I would like to get a CX for my Roon core but will hold off until next year.


----------



## Progisus

Whazzzup said:


> Nothing in Canada. Hifi centre in Vancouver Has no antipodes listed as if they are waiting for the new line.


I am wondering what the upgrade process and pricing may be like. I believe you went through that with your Antipodes .


----------



## andrewd01

A question for @Kapiti 
Hi Mark, is there any benefit of running two EX’s as a more affordable alternative to CX-EX?  Or in the new series two S30’s instead of an S30 and S40?  The reason I ask is that I am not sure I need the high processing power of the CX.  I mainly listen to streaming services and only have a very small local library.  I do not do any significant processing eg DSD upscaling.  I currently run a Roon core and HQP for PCm upscaling on a single Ex and performance is fine.


----------



## Whazzzup

Progisus said:


> I am wondering what the upgrade process and pricing may be like. I believe you went through that with your Antipodes .


yes initially it was like 25% to upgrade, but my route was unique and was a trouble shoot upgrade. But each jurisdiction will be on a different time line and price points I’m sure.


----------



## andrewd01

K50 is £15k, which equates to $20k USD.


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## Kapiti (Aug 22, 2020)

andrewd01 said:


> A question for @Kapiti
> Hi Mark, is there any benefit of running two EX’s as a more affordable alternative to CX-EX?  Or in the new series two S30’s instead of an S30 and S40?  The reason I ask is that I am not sure I need the high processing power of the CX.  I mainly listen to streaming services and only have a very small local library.  I do not do any significant processing eg DSD upscaling.  I currently run a Roon core and HQP for PCm upscaling on a single Ex and performance is fine.


I do not recommend an EX+EX. The sound is unpleasantly bright.


----------



## Progisus

andrewd01 said:


> A question for @Kapiti
> Hi Mark, is there any benefit of running two EX’s as a more affordable alternative to CX-EX?  Or in the new series two S30’s instead of an S30 and S40?  The reason I ask is that I am not sure I need the high processing power of the CX.  I mainly listen to streaming services and only have a very small local library.  I do not do any significant processing eg DSD upscaling.  I currently run a Roon core and HQP for PCm upscaling on a single Ex and performance is fine.


I moved my core from the EX to a NUC/Rock. I connected that by the supplied ethernet cable to network 2. This didn’t provide any sound improvement so I run the core and HQPlayer on the EX as you do. I can see moving the core for large libraries perhaps.


----------



## andrewd01

I suppose one of the reasons I am curious to try this is that I have some limited experience that shows that network switches can make a difference to sound quality.  I was thinking about trying a high end network switch, but from reading user experience of a dual computer CX-EX system it seems that a big part of the sound improvement is that the CX does the job of a high end network switch by providing a very clean ethernet signal to the EX.  If that is true then I thought that perhaps a dual EX installation might achieve the same thing.


----------



## andrewd01

Kapiti said:


> I do not recommend an EX+EX. The sound is unpleasantly bright.



Thanks Mark, Is there a technical explanation why the combination sounds bright?


----------



## Progisus

EX is probably all one needs with a small library.

 I have a copy of Audirvana and tried that with EX as a renderer using MPD. Very detailed but I like roon/HQPlayers analog sound better.


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## Kapiti (Aug 24, 2020)

andrewd01 said:


> Thanks Mark, Is there a technical explanation why the combination sounds bright?


I should have said there is a level of digital glare that is unacceptable, rather than brightness.  The hardware that works best with the renderer apps tends to work poorly with server apps and vice versa.  But, on top of this, when using two similar pieces of hardware together you have more intermodulation effects to try to eliminate.


----------



## Kapiti

Kapiti said:


> I should have said there is a level of digital glare that is unacceptable, rather than brightness.  The hardware that works best with the renderer apps tends to work poorly with server apps and vice versa.  But, on top of this, when using two similar pieces of hardware together you have more intermodulation effects to try to eliminate.


And using two identical devices (in this case two EX) means intermodulation effects are maximised.


----------



## cczero17

andrewd01 said:


> Clive, Looking forward to your thoughts comparing HQP upscaling to your m scaler.  I am currently running Sinc-L (2M taps) with LNS15 noise shaper.



Pretty sure Sinc-L isnt 2M taps, unless you are upsampling to something obscene lol. 

Having queried ratio to upsample to 352.8/384 myself with Jussi, 16/44.1 is just over 1M...

"sinc-S:
44.1k -> 352.8k = 4096 x 8 = 32768 taps
96k -> 384k = 4096 x 4 = 16384 taps

sinc-L:
44.1k -> 352.8k = 131070 x 8 = 1048560 taps
96k -> 384k = 131070 x 4 = 524280 taps"


----------



## cczero17

Progisus said:


> EX is probably all one needs with a small library.
> 
> I have a copy of Audirvana and tried that with EX as a renderer using MPD. Very detailed but I like roon/HQPlayers analog sound better.



Even with a small library, adding a CX makes considerable difference to the performance. 

A good review on Hifi- Advice explains it well https://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/re...network-player-reviews/antipodes-cx-ex-part1/


----------



## Progisus

cczero17 said:


> Even with a small library, adding a CX makes considerable difference to the performance.
> 
> A good review on Hifi- Advice explains it well https://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/re...network-player-reviews/antipodes-cx-ex-part1/


I putting together a server: Plex for movies, JRiver for remote bit perfect streaming and roon for local music streaming. It will also run HQPlayer to my Chord TT/Pi4. That will leave the EX to render HQPlayer embedded by alsa to the TT2. Unfortunately not a CX.


----------



## andrewd01

cczero17 said:


> Pretty sure Sinc-L isnt 2M taps, unless you are upsampling to something obscene lol.
> 
> Having queried ratio to upsample to 352.8/384 myself with Jussi, 16/44.1 is just over 1M...
> 
> ...



I am upscaling 44.1 to 705.6 kHz, so double the numbers above.
If upscaling PCM it makes sense to use the full capacity of the DAC.


----------



## ReAgent86

New member here!  I joined Head-Fi because I ran across this very helpful Antipodes forum.

I recently purchased the entire four-module "solution," so CX + EX + P1 + P2.  I initially opted for the P2 because I've been a little leery inn the past of USB-only servers due to some painful fatigue issues, so I wanted to have other output options to fine-tune the sound profile.  Turns out I didn't need the SPDIF outputs because the Antipodes implements the USB just fine.  Works splendidly with an FTA Callisto USB cable going to my Lampizator Golden Gate R2R DAC.

I wanted to share my experiences with the software options and get some feedback. Thus far, I've tried a few of the server-renderer combos and the best sound I've achieved are with the Logitech Media Server on the CX and Squeezelite on the EX.  The Squeezelite interface is a whole other question, not only visually but in terms of reliability.  Tracks seem to cut off or skip. Also can't seem to get DSD tracks to play, though the latter problem isn't a dealbreaker for me.

I had tried Roon early on in the process, but my two-week trial subscription expired (carried over from an Innuos Zenith audition), and so I don't remember the Roon sound quality that well in terms of all the comparisons. I do recall that on the Innuos, the Squeezelite implementation of Roon sounded far superior than Roon alone.  And I do remember that was true on the CX/EX as well, but my question is whether the LMS/Squeezelite is still better than Ronn/Squeezelite.  I know the LMS/SQ:L combo sounds great on my system, but was wondering if anyone had recently compared it to Roon with SQL. I may just have to bite the bullet and pay for a Roon subscription to compare again.  But before I do, can anyone also comment on whether the HQ Player is superior to SQL as a player to Roon?  No oversampling needed, just want to play redbook.   Many thanks!


----------



## andrewd01

Welcome to the forum!
I have not done a huge amount of experimenting with different players.  I like Roon for its library management, metadata handling and integration with streaming services.  I would not give it up as a front end.  

When I had my Innuos Zen I used the squeezelite player because that was the only way you could use the Zen as a combined Roon core and player.  With Antipodes there is far more flexibility.  With my EX I have only used Roon stand alone and Roon+HQ Player.  HQP is a large step up, but I am doing PCM upscaling to 705.6 kHz into a Chord Dac.   The main reason to use HQP is for the quality of the upscaling filters.  I am not sure there would be much benefit if you weren't doing any upscaling, but its free to try.  It’s pre installed on the Antipodes hardware and it works for half an hour without a license.  

Is there any reason why you don’t want to try upscaling?


----------



## Progisus

@ReAgent86 Welcome. I have never tried sqz but have used mpd fed from audirvana. I feel it is slightly better sounding than roon bridge. I much prefer hqplayer with upscaled pcm to my tt2 as it is more analog sounding with no fatigue. Roon is the best interface for music discovery imho. Audirvana for my dlna devices.


----------



## ReAgent86

Thanks, Andrew!

The main issue I've shied away from upscaling in the past is because of my delicate ears.  In the percentage of people with "fatigue" issues, I rank pretty high up on the scale. When I step into most boutique audio stores, I usually have to leave within a couple minutes.  Oversampling seems to be one of several fatigue triggers for me.  I've never been able to successfully co-exist with an oversampling DAC, so I've always stuck to the R2R models, such as MHDT, Metrum, and now an older Lampizator DAC.

I do concur that Roon is a great interface, and in perusing the Computer Audiophile forum and Roon's own user site, I think there's pretty broad agreement that SQL is a much better renderer for Roon than Roon's native player, but SQL is not supported by Roon and depends on the "experimental" implementations by the server manufacturers like Innuos and Antipodes.  I do wonder whether some of the playback issues (skipping) I've experienced on LMS with SQL will transfer over to Roon with SQL.


----------



## ReAgent86

Progisus, thank you for the tip on Audirvana and MPD.  I did try MPD on the EX to use the CX as NAS and played it through Cantata.  To me, the sound quality was not as good as LMS on the CX and SQL on the EX.  That combo is absolutely superb. It's too bad for the sucky LMS/SQL interface.  I have a MAC and I have to use the webplayer (iPeng only works on IOS), and even with an updated skin, the library management and discovery features are quite limited.  Oh, one other thing!  I did find that the sound quality of Tidal was excellent through LMS/SQL  Technically, I think Antipodes says that SSD playback provides the top-tier sound, but I noticed no diminution in sound when streaming Tidal through LMS.


----------



## Kapiti

ReAgent86 said:


> Progisus, thank you for the tip on Audirvana and MPD.  I did try MPD on the EX to use the CX as NAS and played it through Cantata.  To me, the sound quality was not as good as LMS on the CX and SQL on the EX.  That combo is absolutely superb. It's too bad for the sucky LMS/SQL interface.  I have a MAC and I have to use the webplayer (iPeng only works on IOS), and even with an updated skin, the library management and discovery features are quite limited.  Oh, one other thing!  I did find that the sound quality of Tidal was excellent through LMS/SQL  Technically, I think Antipodes says that SSD playback provides the top-tier sound, but I noticed no diminution in sound when streaming Tidal through LMS.


In a CX+EX context the re-serving of TIDAL by the CX improves things a lot.  If using LMS, have you tried the Material skin?  I like it a lot as it is simple and fast.  Plus a web app has some nice advantages over using a client app.


----------



## Kapiti

ReAgent86 said:


> Thanks, Andrew!
> 
> The main issue I've shied away from upscaling in the past is because of my delicate ears.  In the percentage of people with "fatigue" issues, I rank pretty high up on the scale. When I step into most boutique audio stores, I usually have to leave within a couple minutes.  Oversampling seems to be one of several fatigue triggers for me.  I've never been able to successfully co-exist with an oversampling DAC, so I've always stuck to the R2R models, such as MHDT, Metrum, and now an older Lampizator DAC.
> 
> I do concur that Roon is a great interface, and in perusing the Computer Audiophile forum and Roon's own user site, I think there's pretty broad agreement that SQL is a much better renderer for Roon than Roon's native player, but SQL is not supported by Roon and depends on the "experimental" implementations by the server manufacturers like Innuos and Antipodes.  I do wonder whether some of the playback issues (skipping) I've experienced on LMS with SQL will transfer over to Roon with SQL.


Do you have the same reaction to so-called high-res files, or just upsampled files?  I find high bit-rate playback is a two-edged sword - better in some respects and worse in others, whether they are real high bit-rate files or upsampled ones.


ReAgent86 said:


> New member here!  I joined Head-Fi because I ran across this very helpful Antipodes forum.
> 
> I recently purchased the entire four-module "solution," so CX + EX + P1 + P2.  I initially opted for the P2 because I've been a little leery inn the past of USB-only servers due to some painful fatigue issues, so I wanted to have other output options to fine-tune the sound profile.  Turns out I didn't need the SPDIF outputs because the Antipodes implements the USB just fine.  Works splendidly with an FTA Callisto USB cable going to my Lampizator Golden Gate R2R DAC.
> 
> ...


That skipping experience with LMS is certainly not normal, and it sounds like you should contact Antipodes Support to see if there is something wrong in your setup.


----------



## ReAgent86

Thanks, Mark!   Kudos for an excellent product and for the great musical enjoyment it brings me.

Yes, I am using Material Skin, and it does improve the interface a tad, but as someone who had the original Logitech Squeezebox many years back, and after using the BluOS ecosystem extensively, and very briefly, Room, I'm finding it difficult to downshift back to LMS as a music organizer.  Sound-wise no complaints!  In fact, I get the feeling that it may be the optimal implementation of the CX/EX. Hence, my original question whether Roon server would be a step back even with the SQL playback. 

As to hi-res question, I don't have many PCM tracks above 16/44.  The few forays I've made into DSD  prior to the Antipodes were not well received by my ears.  I was hoping to try out a few sample DSD tracks that I downloaded to the CX, but as I mentioned I was not able to play them.  I'll check with Tony about that and a couple of the other SQL playback issues, as there a lot buried menus on Material Skin interface and I'm sure he can sort it out quickly for me.


----------



## Clive101 (Aug 31, 2020)

Welcome @ReAgent86 

I have the same problem with brightness and find most of the rooms in a HiFi shows to be bright.

My Speaker system did suffer from this and over the past few years leaning to the more musical side rather than super detail which is one reason why I purchased the CX and EX over other high end servers.

Nothing wrong with a nice sparkle or shimmer though, but I seem very sensitive to harshness in treble (not to be confused with natural harshness of some instruments).

Recently I have been trying HQP as an up-scaler and player and Roon Ready with Roon just on the EX (as my CX was on holiday).

I tried a few of the recommended HQP filters and played with and without. 

Roon Ready was dynamic where as HQP was a little to soft in the treble for me (oddly).

I was not impressed with either (compared to the CX EX Combo) although the EX still better than other servers at the same cost or perhaps more expensive and the flexibility is second to none. 

My strong suggestion is only try the CX EX combo if funds permit as you will want one....! Or should I need one  

I did try  LMS/Squeezelite with the CX EX combo sometime ago and preferred Roon with Roon Ready which is now what I use. 

I must revisit the  LMS/Squeezelite option as tastes can change and doing a change after a few months is a great way to do an alternative A B.


----------



## ReAgent86

Thank you,Clive!

Agree with you that the fatigue issue often pivots around the question of musicality vs detail.  Over the years, I've had to be very cautious about overly-forward ("front row") sound profiles. For example, I did get my DSD working on LMS/SQL last night.  Downloaded a sample DSD track and it sounded like the orchestra was right there in my apartment. Unbelievable sound quality, but within twenty seconds, I had to turn it off, and my ears were hurting an hour later.  No more DSD for me!

It sounds like you've tried the LMS/SQL server-player combo but preferred Roon Server/Roon Ready.  Have you tried SQL as the player for Roon in place of Roon Ready? 


Note for anyone out there interested in purchasing a CX/EX combo, I noticed that Apex Stereo listed a lightly-used one on Audiogon at a reasonable price.


----------



## cczero17

andrewd01 said:


> I am upscaling 44.1 to 705.6 kHz, so double the numbers above.
> If upscaling PCM it makes sense to use the full capacity of the DAC.


Lol...like I said, something obscene 😁


----------



## andrewd01

I suppose I would of thought this amount of upscaling was obscene a couple of years ago, but reading about and auditioning Chord’s upscalers has changed my views on this.  It is a low computational overhead for PCM and results in a signal that is more faithful to the original analogue signal.  

For me it is not about more detail, but realism.  Before lockdown myself and my wife would try to go to live music performances as often as possible and this resets the brain as to what a good hifi should sound like.  In my opinion upscaling with HQP gets me a sound that is closer to a live performance.  It is not about the amount of upscaling applied, but the quality of the filter used.  I would agree with Rob Watts’ argument that the timing of transients is critical for creating a realistic sounding signal, and to get accurate timing you need the best possible reconstruction filter to reproduce the signal between the digitised samples.  

Antipodes has a similar design philosphy in that they do not overdo the noise filtering as this can remove high frequency signal that is critical for transient perception.  This is why Innuos servers sound lush and warm but not as realistic as Antipodes (my opinion, based on owning both).  The innuos is great for laid back genres but is not a good all rounder.  If I want to tune my setup for different genres I would rather do that by choosing different headphones and/or amplifiers instead of adversely damaging the HF signal in the server.

I think the mathematical theory that underlies the filter design in Chord DACS and HQP software is sound.  You can test by taking a native signal with a high sample rate, delete intermediate samples and then try to reconstruct the known missing signal with different filters.  Note that all DACS do upscaling, its just a question of how well the reconstruction filter represents the analogue signal.  Even the so called Non Oversampling Dacs do a rudimentary upscaling using a ’sample and hold’ approach.  It can be mathematically proven that this does a poor job of reconstructing the intermediate samples.

In summary, if you have not heard upscaling done well, I would recommend trying again with either HQP software or a Chord M scaler.


----------



## cczero17

andrewd01 said:


> I suppose I would of thought this amount of upscaling was obscene a couple of years ago, but reading about and auditioning Chord’s upscalers has changed my views on this.  It is a low computational overhead for PCM and results in a signal that is more faithful to the original analogue signal.
> 
> For me it is not about more detail, but realism.  Before lockdown myself and my wife would try to go to live music performances as often as possible and this resets the brain as to what a good hifi should sound like.  In my opinion upscaling with HQP gets me a sound that is closer to a live performance.  It is not about the amount of upscaling applied, but the quality of the filter used.  I would agree with Rob Watts’ argument that the timing of transients is critical for creating a realistic sounding signal, and to get accurate timing you need the best possible reconstruction filter to reproduce the signal between the digitised samples.
> 
> ...



Indeed I use HQP and Antipodes Solution, however I differ on the DAC front. I have an Aqua La Scala MK2 Optologic DAC. No it doesn't upsample as high as Chord but still sounds fantastic. I did however find that can converting to DSD, DSD7 and Sinc - M has better realism 
than PCM Sinc- M, LNS15. I guess this all depends on our DACs


----------



## andrewd01

Your observations make sense. In my opinion the quality of the filter matters more than the amount of upscaling, but for a given filter you may as well push it as much as the DAC can take.  I recall that Jussi recommends converting to DSD to just about all DAC’s except Chord.  I think this is because the Chord FPGA code works natively in PCM and converts any DSD signal to PCM anyway, so better to feed it the best possible PCM.


----------



## Whazzzup

Wish I could hear a la scala, or even better formula. Course why torment myself, I haven’t heard a Dave yet either but would be good to know if there is a next step.


----------



## Progisus

Whazzzup said:


> Wish I could hear a la scala, or even better formula. Course why torment myself, I haven’t heard a Dave yet either but would be good to know if there is a next step.


Is HQPlayer part of the software package on the DX?


----------



## Whazzzup (Sep 2, 2020)

Progisus said:


> Is HQPlayer part of the software package on the DX?


yes but I'm scared to try/install itv


----------



## Progisus

Whazzzup said:


> yes but I'm scared to try/install it


It is better than mscaler with the TT.


----------



## Whazzzup

Progisus said:


> It is better than mscaler with the TT.


you know i looked a while back and thought i had it on my DX, now i don't see it.  ya under my app switcher i see no hq player? no HQ in apps either


----------



## Kapiti (Sep 2, 2020)

Whazzzup said:


> you know i looked a while back and thought i had it on my DX, now i don't see it.  ya under my app switcher i see no hq player? no HQ in apps either


Contact Antipodes Support and that can be sorted for you


----------



## Progisus

Whazzzup said:


> you know i looked a while back and thought i had it on my DX, now i don't see it.  ya under my app switcher i see no hq player? no HQ in apps either


I looked online re DX and HQP and there was reference to the HQP NAA being available. If this is (software upgrade?) then you could run HQP desktop on another computer and play to the naa in the DX. This gives superb results on the EX. Just a thought.


----------



## Whazzzup (Sep 3, 2020)

I dunno had mark and the techy dude at hifi Center team view my system for operational effectiveness and optimal playability. Not that I don’t doubt hqp for your systems, not sure about DX. Maybe if mark or kapiti from antipodes could chime in on DX, I’m tending to leave it as installed. But if there is a preferred player?


----------



## andrewd01

I think the DX has very similar if not more processing power than the EX, so it will handle PCM upscaling in HQP without any problems.  
I think you just need the latest Antipodes OS.  There was a point where this needed to be updated by Antipodes tech support.


----------



## Whazzzup

andrewd01 said:


> I think the DX has very similar if not more processing power than the EX, so it will handle PCM upscaling in HQP without any problems.
> I think you just need the latest Antipodes OS.  There was a point where this needed to be updated by Antipodes tech support.


its not updated with the software manager? i have the latest version


----------



## andrewd01 (Sep 3, 2020)

Maybe its firmware.  There was a previous generation where you couldn’t install your own storage disks etc and used myantipodes instead of antipodes.online to access the server.  I am guessing Mark will clarify.

Described on post 31 here:
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/antipodes-cx-ex.28338/page-2


----------



## Whazzzup

Kapiti said:


> Contact Antipodes Support and that can be sorted for you


Thx everyone, when motivated I’ll contact antipodes to see how to get updated firmware for my DX.


----------



## Clive101

V 3 Guide is now available. 

https://antipodes.audio/amsv3-guide/index.html?page=1


----------



## Progisus

Anyone know when we can expect HQPlayer embedded to be upgraded to 4.19.0?


----------



## Progisus

I’ve just been advised by Tony that we should allow 2-3 weeks from release announcement for testing and packaging. Fantastic support!


----------



## Les Strat (Sep 21, 2020)

Kapiti said:


> In a CX+EX context the re-serving of TIDAL by the CX improves things a lot.  If using LMS, have you tried the Material skin?  I like it a lot as it is simple and fast.  Plus a web app has some nice advantages over using a client app.


Hello @Kapiti
I have just come across this thread on Head Fi having read about Antipodes servers.
I first came across Antipodes when speaking to Martin at The Audiostore in UK who specialise in servers and is very knowledgeable.
He described Antipodes servers as ‘the best available’.
I have used LMS for around 12 years but was unaware of the Material Skin upgrade, which sounds excellent.
I currently use a Logitech Transporter as server, feeding a Schiit Yggdrasil DAC via BNC S/PDIF.
The Transporter is old technology but still sounds surprisingly good as a digital ‘front end’.
I play Red Book files and stream 16/44.1 FLAC from Qobuz using the LMS plug in.
I recently auditioned an Auralic Aries G2 (£4k in UK) but didn’t keep it as it sounded no better than my old Transporter!
I recently spoke to someone who upgraded his Aries G2 to an Antipodes CX + EX. 
He said it was a noticeable improvement which certainly got my attention.
With the launch of the new K series, I think I will have to try a K50 at some point...
I find it fascinating that LMS lives on.
Kudos to Sean Adams, the man behind Slim Devices.
The K50 appears to offer huge flexibility with regard to connections and software (LMS, Roon etc) as well as being beautifully engineered.
I do not use Roon and it looks like LMS with Material Skin, controlled with iPeng would work perfectly on a K50.
I look forward to reading more reviews and user experiences.


----------



## Whazzzup

Mmmm k50


----------



## andrewd01

Whazzzup said:


> Mmmm k50




First review up here:
https://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/re...rk-player-reviews/antipodes-k50-music-server/

Out of my budget unfortunately, but it does look awesome!


----------



## Progisus

andrewd01 said:


> First review up here:
> https://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/re...rk-player-reviews/antipodes-k50-music-server/
> 
> Out of my budget unfortunately, but it does look awesome!


I also find that upnp and mpd has more attack than roon. If one is using hqplayer embedded it can be of course be fed from roon but also from upnp players such as audirvana. There is a noticeable uptick from audirvana but the gui is not as good of course. There is another quality increase if mpd is selected and fed from a mpd player such a Rigelian.

Because I use a TT2, I have taken the usb out and fed an SRC-DX which has a dual coax output. This provides for an upscaled signal as intended to the TT2. A side benefit is that I haven’t experienced the loss of handshake and subsequent white noise blast (so far).


----------



## Clive101

Progisus said:


> I also find that upnp and mpd has more attack than roon. If one is using hqplayer embedded it can be of course be fed from roon but also from upnp players such as audirvana. There is a noticeable uptick from audirvana but the gui is not as good of course. There is another quality increase if mpd is selected and fed from a mpd player such a Rigelian.
> 
> Because I use a TT2, I have taken the usb out and fed an SRC-DX which has a dual coax output. This provides for an upscaled signal as intended to the TT2. A side benefit is that I haven’t experienced the loss of handshake and subsequent white noise blast (so far).


Can the USB out from the CX or EX supply TT2 or Dave with 705.6kHz/768kHz ?


----------



## Progisus

Clive101 said:


> Can the USB out from the CX or EX supply TT2 or Dave with 705.6kHz/768kHz ?


Yes it can. I was using this for the output of HQPlayer and other than the occasional lose of handshake and white noise it worked perfectly. The SRC-DX claims to reduce rfi from the usb chip in the TT2 and provide the same interface to dual coax as the mscaler uses. It also appears to have solved the handshake issue.


----------



## andrewd01

Yes the handshake issue is quite annoying.  I think a solution would require some collaboration between Antipodes and Signalyst.  I sent emails to both at the time, but perhaps there has been more progress with the new OS? @Kapiti can you comment further?

For now I work around the issue by shutting down my Ex after each session and starting it after the TT2 has been turned on.


----------



## Progisus

andrewd01 said:


> Yes the handshake issue is quite annoying.  I think a solution would require some collaboration between Antipodes and Signalyst.  I sent emails to both at the time, but perhaps there has been more progress with the new OS? @Kapiti can you comment further?
> 
> For now I work around the issue by shutting down my Ex after each session and starting it after the TT2 has been turned on.


That is a good solution but I need to keep mine on as it is the roon server for the house.


----------



## andrewd01

Agree that is far from ideal.  My EX is also my Roon server but I only have one other zone. I am hoping that Antipodes/Signalyst can work together to fix this design flaw.

I did try the SRC-DX but ended up sending it back because I wasn’t happy going from a nice clean installation to a mess of cables.


----------



## Clive101

I have ordered K30 and K50 demo they should be with me in a few weeks and was going to pitch the K50 against the Taiko Audio SGM.

As there are a number of various options (personal choice) how to set up the K50 I wondered if there would be a "Best Option"  for the K50 (software and hardware) to give it the best chance of success against the mighty SGM.

Looking at the website it seems that the BNC S/PDIF (note I will be using a Chord Mscaler and Dave hence the BNC output) would be the better option from the K50. I wondered what would be the best cable...currently I use ether a Chord Music or Sarum T USB cable so may try the same brand. .

@Kapiti do you have any advice on setup with software and hardware ? As a manufacturer you may not be able to recommend (I am unsure if the forum rules may prevent you from doing so as a manufacturer if so please send me a PM or email if you are unable to post your personal preference).

I wish to set up the K50 in the best possible way, I guess there would be two ways to do this.

Same equipment and same cables same software USB output like for like vs the best option from each manufacturer.  

Anyone else please feel free to comment.


----------



## andrewd01

@Clive101 looking forward to your impressions of the K30 and K50


----------



## Clive101

Has anyone updated the CX or EX to the new version 2.8 I have updated but the version is still shown as 2.7 in the home info page after reboot.
Does anyone else have the same problem ?


----------



## richardloh (Oct 4, 2020)

cczero17 said:


> Even with a small library, adding a CX makes considerable difference to the performance.
> 
> A good review on Hifi- Advice explains it well https://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/re...network-player-reviews/antipodes-cx-ex-part1/



Hi All,

Johnny came later and ymmv but adding the CX to EX has been a great experience even just for last 2 days.

I have a reasonable big library of 7TB+ filled of the recommended 2x 4TB Samsung 860 SSDs since pulling music from my 2X10TB had noticable drop in sound quality for EX, Nuprime omnia S1 and Allo usb bridge signature (latter 2 just retired but had 400gb sdcard and 1tb memory stick on them) but EX never had slowness or trouble via simple set up of squeezelite and squeeze controlled by free android squeezer app.

Many adjectives said on sound quality improvement but I will describe it as getting often superior night listening to daytime and night listening just becomes immensely enjoyable .. more of everything !

Looking forward to sending my EX and CX back to its birthplace when OLADRA upgrade for EX and CX owners is made available but meanwhile, time to listen to more music with no more urge (also no knowledge) for any audiophile switch, expensive ethernet cables, upsampling etc. afterall to keep $ for eventual OLADRA, simple and manageable even for family members* with free android Squeezer app to operate.

Thank you Antipodes and Tony for his teamviewer sessions.

Cheers.

Richard

*PS: thanks to the cool but mighty Sander Magtech amp, my system is power 24/7 ..  so are the Antipodes EX and CX of course


----------



## Progisus

Clive101 said:


> Has anyone updated the CX or EX to the new version 2.8 I have updated but the version is still shown as 2.7 in the home info page after reboot.
> Does anyone else have the same problem ?


Tony says 2.7 is max for EX,CX. 2.8 is for another platform. I am wondering how long until hqplayer gets upgraded. Its been many weeks since it dropped.


----------



## Whazzzup

2.7 max for DX as well.


----------



## ReAgent86

Whazzzup said:


> 2.7 max for DX as well.



I brought up the 2.8 vs 2.7 versioning issue to Tony a couple weeks ago. He confirmed 2.7 is the latest.  My suspicion is that the other "platform" reference is to a non-Antipodes manufacturer.  I believe that the underlying server software is licensed from Sonicorbiter and their hardware has been updated to the 2.8 version, but Antipodes is on 2.7.

One update on a piece of server quirkiness I mentioned to Tony, is that when I first received the CX + EX a couple months ago, I found that I couldn't access the Antipodes business web site (Antipodesaudio) while I was connected to the music servers.  I would always get a message saying the Antipodes business site was unavailable.  When I logged off from the music servers, then the business homepage would be accessible again.  As everyone probably knows, Antipodes updated its website, and now I'm now able to access the homepage while connected to music servers--just in time to see that my newly purchased CX + EX  + P1 + P2 is being replaced by new models: LOL!


----------



## Clive101

I have been trying different server and player options.
Initially when I made the purchase of the CX EX Combo I used LMS and Squeezelite as this was recommended to me.
I then tried Roon with Roon Ready. I preferred the sound so much that I subscribed to a Lifetime membership.
Although trying Roon with Squeezelite I prefer Roon Ready as a Player.....
Over the last two days I have tried MinimServer with MPD as a player noise floor reduced and a very much improved SQ.
When I look at the resource monitor I see the CPU average at 0% with Minim Server. Roon has the average is 14% with spikes up to 50% which may explain why the SQ is not as good.

TBH I was gobsmacked with the improvement.

Has anyone else tried had the same results?

@Kapiti are there any other players with MinimServer that can be used ?


----------



## Progisus

Clive101 said:


> I have been trying different server and player options.
> Initially when I made the purchase of the CX EX Combo I used LMS and Squeezelite as this was recommended to me.
> I then tried Roon with Roon Ready. I preferred the sound so much that I subscribed to a Lifetime membership.
> Although trying Roon with Squeezelite I prefer Roon Ready as a Player.....
> ...


What software do you use to control MPD? I use Audirvana playing from library on it’s host or Rigelian using the library on the Antipodes. Sound in descending order Rigelian/mpd > Audirvana/mpd > Roon/HQPlayer > Roon/Roon-Ready. But Roon always wins out for it’s library curation, multiple end point control and stability.

I have also tried my core in many locations. Nuc/Rock, MBPro, Nuc/Win10 and of course EX. Best sound was EX>Nuc/Rock>MBPro>Nuc/Win10. The MBPro was the snappiest and it also hosts Audirvana and JRiver (for remote play). That is were the core is presently.


----------



## Clive101 (Oct 5, 2020)

@Progisus
I have Minim Server on the CX acting as the server and MPD on the EX set up as a Player only.
I control with bubbleupnp app on my tablet. I select Minim as the library and MPD as the player.
This is a simple set up with low CPU use and very little network traffic which I guess helps with lowering the noise floor.
If you have time try both on your EX (without anything else taking up CPU resources) although MPD does have around 4% average CPU.
YMMV as this is a one box application vs two in my set up but I still think you will have a very good result.
I will keep Roon for browsing and switch to Minim Server when I pick an album or playlist to sit back and relax it's that good.
I found myself listening to "full on" classical symphony orchestra which was my least preferred genre, the music fully engulfed me.
Playing https://open.qobuz.com/track/85483122 Trentemoller The last Resort Chameleon the bass was so low it made me fell sick even the brick walls were vibrating.
I would be interested in your view if you try and if you have the same experience with the above track or anyone else.


----------



## Progisus

Clive101 said:


> @Progisus
> I have Minim Server on the CX acting as the server and MPD on the EX set up as a Player only.
> I control with bubbleupnp app on my tablet. I select Minim as the library and MPD as the player.
> This is a simple set up with low CPU use and very little network traffic which I guess helps with lowering the noise floor.
> ...


Using the track you suggested I first set EX for MPD. I used Audirvana as the controller. I believe both bubble and mconnect take from the server and resend to the player. The sound was top notch as per my previous findings. The album is a bass monster. Using mpd my ex was barely at 1%.
I then fed the same signal from Audirvana to hqplayer in the ex with sinc-m, lns15, 768k max. Usage jumped to average 18% with a core jumping to 30% occasionally. Not even breaking a sweat.
I really love roon so for the miniscule drop in quality and huge convenience, it will remain.


----------



## Clive101 (Oct 5, 2020)

@Progisus 
Thanks for trying. I am with you regarding Roon for the same reasons.
I found the Minim with MPD less fatigueing with my speaker system and that was the biggest improvement to me.
I find my headphone system more forgiving, different amp this being a WA33 Elite JPS upgrade tubes with LCD4 which may explain.
The Bryston Amps I have are unforgiving and I do suffer from digital glare, almost every system is too bright for me so I guess it is more me than anything else. It's the high notes of female vocals that do the most damage screaming down my ears a harsh scream rather than normal scream.

Chameleon is bass heavy, sent to big speakers you feel it more than hear it !


----------



## ReAgent86

Hi All, I wanted to get some feedback on ethernet cables and where they might make the most difference in the CX + EX combo.  Where should my best cable go?  Between the ethernet switch and the CX or between the CX and the EX? I have the sense that the signal is pretty clean between the CX and EX and  was thinking that the best cable should feed from the switch to the CX. Anyone tried experimenting with different ethernet cables for those two connections.  Right now, I use Supra Cat 8 for both hookups, but was thinking of upgrading one (or both) to the Phasure ethernet cable, as I've had good luck with the Phasure Lush USB.


----------



## Progisus (Oct 22, 2020)

I think I have the configuration I like. The EX runs roon and hqplayer. The network 2 port runs to a pi 4 running audiolinux. That runs naa and loads everything to ram. The pi is powered by an Anker powerpac. TT2 is from usb on the pi through a jitterbug to an SRC-DX. This then feeds dual coax to TT2. Super quiet, black background and fairly snappy.


----------



## frankensmurf

Progisus said:


> What software do you use to control MPD? I use Audirvana playing from library on it’s host or Rigelian using the library on the Antipodes. Sound in descending order Rigelian/mpd > Audirvana/mpd > Roon/HQPlayer > Roon/Roon-Ready. But Roon always wins out for it’s library curation, multiple end point control and stability.
> 
> I have also tried my core in many locations. Nuc/Rock, MBPro, Nuc/Win10 and of course EX. Best sound was EX>Nuc/Rock>MBPro>Nuc/Win10. The MBPro was the snappiest and it also hosts Audirvana and JRiver (for remote play). That is were the core is presently.



I appreciate the granularity and ranking here. 

I will admit to a little frustration with (what I perceive to be) the diminishing returns we all obsess over, particularly in digital front ends. I'm also coming at this from the perspective of a speaker listener in a real room -- so as compared to your perfect acoustics and top-flight headphones I have -- as it happens -- Focals with beryllium tweeters, probably a second cousin of your drivers. But, and let's charitably assume that room acoustics are obliterating only 5-10% of their goodness, it leaves me with a very different value proposition. A dollar spent on cryo silver plated power supply cables for my digital transport will -- all things being equal -- probably yield more spent on speaker upgrades, or room upgrades. 

So with apologies for the really long setup for the question: how would you rate the degrees of difference in your two lists as compared to larger changes like Hugo2 vs TT2, Utopia vs HD800, etc..


----------



## Whazzzup

Hugo and tt are not directly comparable, on many fronts from power to mill block design analogue components as well as line out options. These all transcend your listening experience. I use hd800S and find it my all rounder. Th900 fully modded is my bass canon. I never tried utopia as it seems more of a trade off with hd800S. Funny the hd800S threads seem unaffected by utopia launch.


----------



## Progisus

frankensmurf said:


> I appreciate the granularity and ranking here.
> 
> I will admit to a little frustration with (what I perceive to be) the diminishing returns we all obsess over, particularly in digital front ends. I'm also coming at this from the perspective of a speaker listener in a real room -- so as compared to your perfect acoustics and top-flight headphones I have -- as it happens -- Focals with beryllium tweeters, probably a second cousin of your drivers. But, and let's charitably assume that room acoustics are obliterating only 5-10% of their goodness, it leaves me with a very different value proposition. A dollar spent on cryo silver plated power supply cables for my digital transport will -- all things being equal -- probably yield more spent on speaker upgrades, or room upgrades.
> 
> So with apologies for the really long setup for the question: how would you rate the degrees of difference in your two lists as compared to larger changes like Hugo2 vs TT2, Utopia vs HD800, etc..


The biggest improvement in my system:
1) Removing mscaler and replacing with the EX running HQPlayer
2) Upgrading the Hugo 2 with TT2

The headphones and iems are totally mood and souce dependent. This whole hobby imho is about synergy between components. For instance.... I pair TT1 with HD800s or Tia Fourte and TT2 with Utopia or EE Legend X. When used in these pairings I feel either system is equal musically.

Hope that helps.


----------



## Whazzzup (Oct 22, 2020)

Felt the same, well with DX and roon, and no hq


----------



## Clive101 (Oct 31, 2020)

The K50 and the K30 have arrived....!
Any suggestions how anyone wants a comparison server player combo, USB vs digital clocked version?
After 24 hrs playing burning better SQ..... more to follow.

Edit Chord Dave with or without Mscaler


----------



## Whazzzup (Oct 31, 2020)

Whichever,  but if you have a tt to throw in... But dave with and without m scaler would be interesting


----------



## andrewd01

Clive101 said:


> The K50 and the K30 have arrived....!
> Any suggestions how anyone wants a comparison server player combo, USB vs digital clocked version?
> After 24 hrs playing burning better SQ..... more to follow.
> 
> Edit Chord Dave with or without Mscaler



Exciting times!  I am interested in how the USB output sounds compares to your CX/EX.  The reclocker is interesting but it kills the opportunity to upscale with HQP and export to a Chord DAC at 705 kHz.  Its a pity they couldn’t put a dual BNC output on the reclocker.


----------



## Whazzzup

Usb for me


----------



## naynay

K50-K30 v SGM Extreme


----------



## Clive101 (Nov 1, 2020)

Just emailed the SGM Extreme supplier for a demo, so need to get sorted before the UK lockdown.
Fingers crossed.
@Kapiti I notice the K50 self updated am I correct ? Is there anyway I could load Minimserver or version 2, any reason why it was not included? Thank you.


----------



## naynay

Hope you manage to get a listen be interested to know how these compare.


----------



## naynay

Anyone having issues loading minimserver?


----------



## Clive101 (Nov 1, 2020)

https://minimserver.com/minimserver2/

Looking on their website the donation has been removed.

I will send a message to Simon to see what has happened and perhaps see if it can be integrated with the newer Antipodes range.

@Kapiti please can you  help ?

Edit Sent Message to MinimServer


----------



## Kapiti

Is there any reason why you wish to use Minimserver rather than miniDLNA?


----------



## Progisus

Clive101 said:


> https://minimserver.com/minimserver2/
> 
> Looking on their website the donation has been removed.
> 
> ...


Could you not use dlna server?


----------



## Clive101

Kapiti said:


> Is there any reason why you wish to use Minimserver rather than miniDLNA?



Thank you for enquiring. I did try dlna server with MPD as the player and was very underwhelmed.

On the CX EX combo, MinimServer  suited my SQ taste, more rounded treble (not too harsh) and lower noise floor as I found Roon with Squeeze too bright.

Where as on the K50 I am fining I like the Roon with Squeeze (guess owing to even more lower noise floor) but as I experienced good results with MinimServer, I wanted to see if there are still further improvements to be made for my taste in SQ.

Comparing the CPU load using Roon on the K50 with the CX, the K50 has much lower CPU usage which may account for some of this improvement. It was around 0% (with the odd core tipping into 1% for a split second) vs 7%.

PS Thank you for suppling the standard black ethernet cable in the K50 box my first choice of ethernet cable !


----------



## Kapiti

If you remove the outer PVC jacket from the black Ethernet cable, it becomes very good.  I will take some time to look at Minimserver again.  Some DLNA implementations result in overly softened transient speed, robbing the music of its timing and urgency, but I hear your concerns about treble energy.  I have found the K50 takes 2 months before it settles down.  Up to that point it can have good days and bad days.  Then the noise floor just gradually fades away over the next two months.  That feeling you get with most digital, that there is something awful going on in the high treble, does disappear.  But in my experience, it does not reach its peak performance till around the 6 month point.  If burn in did not exist this whole gig would be so much easier.


----------



## Clive101

Kapiti said:


> If you remove the outer PVC jacket from the black Ethernet cable, it becomes very good.  I will take some time to look at Minimserver again.  Some DLNA implementations result in overly softened transient speed, robbing the music of its timing and urgency, but I hear your concerns about treble energy.  I have found the K50 takes 2 months before it settles down.  Up to that point it can have good days and bad days.  Then the noise floor just gradually fades away over the next two months.  That feeling you get with most digital, that there is something awful going on in the high treble, does disappear.  But in my experience, it does not reach its peak performance till around the 6 month point.  If burn in did not exist this whole gig would be so much easier.



Thank you for the information. I do agree there is a vast improvement in the first 48 hrs.
I will leave running and try from day to day , glad it runs very cool at 22 C.
I will ask the dealer for more time and revert back.


----------



## Progisus

I just replaced a run of 35ft cat 6 between the router/switch and the EX roon server/hqplayer renderer with multimode fiber. All in $150.00 cad.  It may be expectation bias but it has added micro detail and darkened the background.  Well worth it imho and a nice isolation (covid and electrical) project.


----------



## frankensmurf

Hey all. 
Question 1: I am looking at replacing my (normal Win10 PC connected via normal home networking) Roon Server with either a CX, or a Nucleus+ (which I will locate on the stereo rack).  Given that I am running through an EtherRegen into the EX, I am hoping the that sound quality differences between the two would be smallish or nominal. If you have experience with that kind of difference I'm happy to hear it. 

Question 2: Given that a used Nucleus+ is roughly half of a used CX, what are the _functional_ differences between the two? i.e. I know you can run HQPlayer and such on a CX. You can't do that on a Nucleus+  right? And of course you can run lots of rendering apps on the CX but I wouldn't as the EX is here already. 

Question 3: I have the perception that administering / updating the Nucleus+ is simpler / better integrated. Any downsides or upsides I should know about using the CX as a server? 

..Just trying to figure out if I save the money and reduce complexity with the N+  vs CX without giving up anything I care about.


----------



## Clive101

frankensmurf said:


> Hey all.
> Question 1: I am looking at replacing my (normal Win10 PC connected via normal home networking) Roon Server with either a CX, or a Nucleus+ (which I will locate on the stereo rack).  Given that I am running through an EtherRegen into the EX, I am hoping the that sound quality differences between the two would be smallish or nominal. If you have experience with that kind of difference I'm happy to hear it.
> 
> Question 2: Given that a used Nucleus+ is roughly half of a used CX, what are the _functional_ differences between the two? i.e. I know you can run HQPlayer and such on a CX. You can't do that on a Nucleus+  right? And of course you can run lots of rendering apps on the CX but I wouldn't as the EX is here already.
> ...



Sorry for the blunt answer as this is a no brainer.

I would go with the CX EX combo, no need for network gear sell it use the standard ethernet cable with the EX or CX if you can get hold of one.

You may get a second hand CX for a good price which will make the upgrade a bargain in terms of SQ as the newer Antipodes come online.

You cannot compare the SQ upgrade when you add CX to your EX or vice versa with a Nucleus.

I would strongly recommend the Combo as an upgrade for the above reasons.


----------



## Clive101 (Nov 9, 2020)

The K50 has been running now for 10 days and not yet burnt in, the SQ does come and go but on the good days managing to listen to various combinations.
I am now trying the Chord Mscaler vs HQ Player and wondered what settings you all wanted me to try ?

@Kapiti I have enabled HQplayer in Roon, I have set up as a network player (not ASLA) in HQP but have two options Antipodes: Dave USB Audio or Antipodes USB Audio 2 : USB Audio. Which is the better option ?
Just wondered what the differences are and was I correct to set up the K50 as a network player in HQP? HQP is set up on the server and NNA selected on the player.
Also at what time frame would you consider comparing with the Taiko SGM as I wish to make sure the K50 is fully burnt in to give a fair comparison?
So far I have found Chord Dave Mscaler via BNC to have the better sound (for me) (as there is no AES input to the Chord Mscaler) via Roon Squeeze do you wish me to try any other alternatives ?
Thank you.


----------



## andrewd01

frankensmurf said:


> Hey all.
> Question 1: I am looking at replacing my (normal Win10 PC connected via normal home networking) Roon Server with either a CX, or a Nucleus+ (which I will locate on the stereo rack).  Given that I am running through an EtherRegen into the EX, I am hoping the that sound quality differences between the two would be smallish or nominal. If you have experience with that kind of difference I'm happy to hear it.
> 
> Question 2: Given that a used Nucleus+ is roughly half of a used CX, what are the _functional_ differences between the two? i.e. I know you can run HQPlayer and such on a CX. You can't do that on a Nucleus+  right? And of course you can run lots of rendering apps on the CX but I wouldn't as the EX is here already.
> ...




I can’t answer your main question, but am curious to know how much of a difference the Ether Regen makes on your EX?  I am holding off buying something like this because it is a hefty fraction of what a CX costs, and the CX would make it redundant.  

Have you tried running your Roon core on your EX (in addition to rendering apps). This is what I do and it works great.  

As far as I understand it you need to connect the CX directly to the EX to get the maximum benefit of the CX.  I am planning to get a CX some time next year.  The introduction of the new range means that these are appearing on the used market at a reasonable price now.


----------



## andrewd01 (Nov 9, 2020)

Clive101 said:


> The K50 has been running now for 10 days and not yet burnt in, the SQ does come and go but on the good days managing to listen to various combinations.
> I am now trying the Chord Mscaler vs HQ Player and wondered what settings you all wanted me to try ?
> 
> @Kapiti I have enabled HQplayer in Roon, I have set up as a network player (not ASLA) in HQP but have two options Antipodes: Dave USB Audio or Antipodes USB Audio 2 : USB Audio. Which is the better option ?
> ...




For HQP I use Sinc-L 16x PCM upscaling (44.1 to 705.6kHz) with the LNS15 noise shaper.  This gives 2M tap upscaling, but a delay of 6 seconds when you first start to play a track.  Sinc-M also sounds very good.  It has 1M upscaling and a shorter start-up time (about 3 seconds).


----------



## Progisus

Hey guys... I enquired about when the upgrade to hqplayer 4.19.1 would be available. Tony offered me a path which required a massive update to software ver 2.8. The instructions were clear and the upgrade went without a hitch BUT! The fingerprint for hqplayer changed making my license obsolete. Tony is working with me and has sent the issue to software programmers. I requested a license upgrade from Jussi but he has not replied as of yet.  I am using a desktop license on a remote nuc for the time being but I sure do miss my one box solution in the EX.


----------



## andrewd01

Thanks for the heads-up.  I will avoid any upgrade to 2.8 until this is resolved.


----------



## frankensmurf

andrewd01 said:


> I can’t answer your main question, but am curious to know how much of a difference the Ether Regen makes on your EX?  I am holding off buying something like this because it is a hefty fraction of what a CX costs, and the CX would make it redundant.
> 
> Have you tried running your Roon core on your EX (in addition to rendering apps). This is what I do and it works great.
> 
> As far as I understand it you need to connect the CX directly to the EX to get the maximum benefit of the CX.  I am planning to get a CX some time next year.  The introduction of the new range means that these are appearing on the used market at a reasonable price now.


I wish I could give you a solid answer right now. I have gear and cables (including a TT2!) coming in and out of the system, as well as changing acoustic treatments, plus am having trouble with a new outboard power supply I got which doesn't with the EtherRegen. 

I will reply if I get a chance to do close enough listening. 

Meanwhile, the CX vs Nucleus upgrade for me is actually as much about getting it off of a mixed-use server than about SQ. Of course SQ is important too, so I'm leaning toward the CX anyway as I'm seeing a couple on the market.


----------



## frankensmurf

frankensmurf said:


> I wish I could give you a solid answer right now. I have gear and cables (including a TT2!) coming in and out of the system, as well as changing acoustic treatments, plus am having trouble with a new outboard power supply I got which doesn't with the EtherRegen.
> 
> I will reply if I get a chance to do close enough listening.
> 
> Meanwhile, the CX vs Nucleus upgrade for me is actually as much about getting it off of a mixed-use server than about SQ. Of course SQ is important too, so I'm leaning toward the CX anyway as I'm seeing a couple on the market.


Further* to this, the EtherRegen, if nothing else, is a network switch that I'm less afraid (compared to normal consumer equipment that I'd assume to be very electrically noisy) to put on the stereo rack.


----------



## Progisus

andrewd01 said:


> Thanks for the heads-up.  I will avoid any upgrade to 2.8 until this is resolved.


Jussi updated my license to the new fingerprint. All is well. The 2,8 update certainly installs software faster and reboots in about 30-40 seconds.


----------



## N Quarter

@Kapiti 
 Hi, I just found this thread, and have read through it all from the beginning. I am hoping you can give me some advice about which of your products would work best for me. I currently use a Naim Core as a ripper/server into an Mscaler/TT2, but want to add a streamer, so I can use Tidal (again),and possibly Roon. I have read up on the CX, EX, and DX models, but understand you now have the K and S models as upgrades. Would I be ok using my Naim Core still to rip/store and serve my music with one of your new models, or would I be better off selling it, and using Antipodes for everything? Also, I guess there is HQplayer to consider, but I think I want to keep my Mscaler, since I have just ordered a pair of Wave BNC’s for it. I do like the thought of one box doing everything, but maybe I don’t need all the functions of it, considering what I already have? Any other people‘s advice welcomed too,but i realize the new models are just being released, so maybe Clive is the only one who has heard them. Thanks.


----------



## Whazzzup

The rippers in DX as I’m sure other modules k50... are quite special. Antipodes ripper top notch.


----------



## N Quarter

Whazzzup said:


> Antipodes ripper top notch.


I would think the ripping function is the least important part of the Antipodes, thus my question about still using my Naim Core, but I could be wrong.


----------



## Whazzzup

Well it’s not important if you don’t have a 1000 CD,s. The ripping process is interesting with a three layer analysis including fingerprint analysis For acoustic integrity, the proof is in the listening which goes to blue light preferred signal path. not an expert but


----------



## N Quarter (Nov 12, 2020)

My CD’s are already ripped, and are on the SSD inside my Naim Core, I also have a western digital hard drive with the rest of my downloads on it, I have around 2200 albums total. The WD hardrive plugs into the Naim, and what is on it blends in with the SSD content when you browse with the Naim App. Basically what I need is the streamer function, but I understand there is more going on with Antipodes than just sending 1’s and 0’s.


----------



## cczero17

I find it strange that there are more  CX/EX units on the used market now, as it has been stated that there will be internal upgrades coming for these, so users don't have to shell out for a new K unit


----------



## andrewd01

Progisus said:


> Jussi updated my license to the new fingerprint. All is well. The 2,8 update certainly installs software faster and reboots in about 30-40 seconds.



Hi Prog, I am curious to know if the handshake issue with HQP and the Chord TT2 has been resolved with the new 2.8 OS.  Can you please try shutting down and restarting the TT2 from standby while the EX is running?  At the moment I am mitigating this by restarting my EX at every listening session, and making sure I start TT2 first before EX.


----------



## Progisus

andrewd01 said:


> Hi Prog, I am curious to know if the handshake issue with HQP and the Chord TT2 has been resolved with the new 2.8 OS.  Can you please try shutting down and restarting the TT2 from standby while the EX is running?  At the moment I am mitigating this by restarting my EX at every listening session, and making sure I start TT2 first before EX.


Argh! The issue is still there. I am following the same startup procedure as you. Interesting though.. if I use the SRC-DX to dual bnc input this problem never happens. It would appear to be Chord usb issue with hqplayer. I can’t remember having the issue with roon ready on the EX. I doubt Chord and Jussi will ever talk to fix it. I don’t feel there is any love there.

Ver 2.8 has upgraded to hqplayer 4.20 already. I just contacted Antipodes expressing my desire to upgrade hqplayer and they sent me the instructions.


----------



## Whazzzup

Once in a while I’ll have to shut down roon after getting a hiss. This is rare and random. Once in a blue moon I’ll turn on and off TT. But I leave my DX tt and gsx mk2 on 24/7


----------



## Clive101

Hello All,
Still testing the K50 the last 3 weeks (running 24/7) and the K30 is still burning in only 5 days so far, so early days for the K30.
The K50 is on HQP 4.18  it self updates as I am aware.
So much to tell and will program the pick up of the SGM soon for the final shoot out.
Teaser the SGM has stiff competition...!


----------



## F208Frank

Random, but do you think the Roon Nucleus is a decent choice given its price point?


----------



## Progisus (Nov 26, 2020)

F208Frank said:


> Random, but do you think the Roon Nucleus is a decent choice given its price point?


I use a NUC7i3 for my core running roon rock (when not using the EX) for 1/3 the price. It is a bit faster than the EX. The nu cleus is just a nuc in a fanless case with roon support.


----------



## andrewd01

While we all eagerly await Clive’s review, here is one on six moons.  It doesn’t make any comparisons to the existing CX/EX combo so not particularly useful.

https://6moons.com/audioreview_articles/antipodes3/


----------



## F208Frank (Nov 29, 2020)

Hi fellow antipodes owners...so I have a ex/cx combo for the headphone rig and do not plan to upgrade. I am just wanting to understand if I want to use the Nucleus by Roon for my speakers, can the Nucleus be used as a streamer and transport or is it only used as a core?

Basically I already use my Roon core from my Ex/Cx for my headphone rig, would it be redundant to get the nucleus for my speakers if my core is already being used on the Ex/Cx?

I’m hoping the Nucleus is not just able to be used as a core but a transport as well to replace my bluesound node which has been sold. I do not care for my speakers as much as my headphone rig hence the choice for the speaker transport being cheaper than my headphone transport.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Progisus

F208Frank said:


> Hi fellow antipodes owners...so I have a ex/cx combo for the headphone rig and do not plan to upgrade. I am just wanting to understand if I want to use the Nucleus by Roon for my speakers, can the Nucleus be used as a streamer and transport or is it only used as a core?
> 
> Basically I already use my Roon core from my Ex/Cx for my headphone rig, would it be redundant to get the nucleus for my speakers if my core is already being used on the Ex/Cx?
> 
> ...


The nucleus will still show as a core on your network but you can leave it unauthorized so that the CX will be the core. You can use the usb port and the hdmi as endpoints. On my nuc running roon rock I use the hdmi for 5.1 to my Anthem AVR but my core is on the EX.


----------



## frankensmurf

F208Frank said:


> Hi fellow antipodes owners...so I have a ex/cx combo for the headphone rig and do not plan to upgrade. I am just wanting to understand if I want to use the Nucleus by Roon for my speakers, can the Nucleus be used as a streamer and transport or is it only used as a core?
> 
> Basically I already use my Roon core from my Ex/Cx for my headphone rig, would it be redundant to get the nucleus for my speakers if my core is already being used on the Ex/Cx?
> 
> ...


Your CX performs exactly the same function as the Roon Nucleus. If you want to connect to your main system, you just need a Roon endpoint, not another Core. 

From your signature, it looks like you have a Lumin U1. You should be able to leave the CX as is, running as core, and run your Lumin U1 as another Zone connected to the same Roon core. I don't understand why you would need another Roon Core, unless you want to run two separate libraries. 

If I've misunderstood and you don't have a Lumin U1, and you just need another Roon endpoint, you should get that. The BlueSound Node is fine; but there are various other options from Auralic, and others. I'm not familiar with your Anthem receiver but it's possible (if it's relatively recent) that it works as a Roon Endpoint on its own.


----------



## Clive101 (Dec 2, 2020)

Hello All,
Just picked up The Taiko Audio SGM Extreme it is a beast very heavy.
Now playing the SGM and the K30 now burnt in.
Tomorrow is going to be fun, up nice and early. 
More to follow


----------



## Whazzzup

wow looked up SGM, a little out of my price range but happy for your hi end server fest


----------



## Clive101

Whazzzup said:


> wow looked up SGM, a little out of my price range but happy for your hi end server fest


It was your fault, you sent me down this rabbit hole and I thank you. 
TBH a little out my price range but had to try and the shoot out starts tomorrow by the end of the day I will have a good idea which I prefer and why.


----------



## Clive101

Hello, I am back again and sorry for the small delay. The K50 blow a fuse and thanks to the speedy help of Mark (Antipodes) I was able to replace the fuse with one from the K30 also on demo. I will review the difference between the CX EX, K30 and K50 later.

So, for the long-awaited shootout between the Taiko SGM and the Antipodes K50 but before I do just need to point out a few things.

I do not have trained ears, only been listening to HiFi for around 5 years but been to a few HiFi shows and listened to quite a few high-end systems mainly digital with a few analogue. I am overly sensitive to harsh treble and sibilance, digital glare, fatigue.

I always thought there would be one true sound we all aim for. I quickly found the one true sound to aim for was the one you enjoy the most, forget everyone else’s view. So, with the above caveats I will post up my impressions of these two mighty servers.

Size and weight

The Taiko will fit not fit any HiFi rack it is deep; a two person install. Carry this beast at your peril and at the maximum I could lift owing to size and weight. While the K50 will fit a normal rack and easily carried by one person. A win to the K50 but not a deal breaker.

Price specification options.

I will not bore you all the specification and cost are all available on the web.

Set Up

Chord Dave Mscaler, Bryston 7b3 mono amps, PMC MB2 se speakers.

System cables, Wave cables Duel BNC – Chord Sarum T XLR – Chord Sarum T Speaker cables.

Server cables USB Chord Music and Wave BNC.

K50 first impressions (new out the box) were not good, I almost return the unit. The dealership advised more burning in, so I did this and over a few weeks the sound improved. I warn you now it had off days and good days during this period. According to Mark at around six months is the best you can get.

Taiko first impressions (burnt in) where is the credit card (remember the K50 was dead owing to the blown fuse and had not listened for two weeks as the K30 was burning in).

Sound Quality

If you ever manage to listen to either one of these servers, you are privileged owing one at their cost is not for the faint hearted. If your happy where you are, I would strongly advise not to try one of these servers. You cannot unhear this level of sound quality. This is where Digital gets closer to Analogue.

K50 vs Taiko.

I would be happy with ether one of these but have my preferred and that was within a few hours.

The K50 vs Taiko on USB

I took me a few A – B and a few tracks to find the difference between them initially I thought they were equal; they are different BUT VERY CLOSE.

I will spare everyone the tracks and notes. I get to the point quick and simple.

The Taiko is crisp and precise whereas the K50 is more mellow more organic more analogue and a little more forgiving. Difficult to explain (for me). In poorly record tracks (HOT) I found the S in vocal to be a little exaggerated on the Taiko and more forgiving in the K50.

Bass Midrange ballpark similar ball park.

Remember I am splitting hairs between them.

K50 BNC S/PDIF vs Taiko USB

For me (I am overly sensitive to harsh treble and sibilance, digital glare, fatigue) I prefer this option on the K50. This personal preference and could listen to K50 for hours with the BNC output knowing with a few clicks can change the K50 to USB if the mood dictates. I was using a Wave BNC cable on the S/PDIF perhaps it was this. I did try a few cheap alternative BNC cables but quickly removed as no detail and woolly.

The Taiko I had on demo only had a USB output so same as the above, exceptionally good, but my personal preference was the K50.

Conclusion

Both servers get closer than any other digital source I have used. The timbre, soundstage, organic nature and most importantly toe tapping experience.

Everything just falls into place.

For me by a hair the K50 (personal preference).

The End.


----------



## Whazzzup

Thx for this, I will avoid, and quite easily so, listening to k50.  The burn in time is problematic yet like wine, gets better and better. look forward to further updates.


----------



## Triode User (Dec 4, 2020)

andrewd01 said:


> While we all eagerly await Clive’s review, here is one on six moons.  It doesn’t make any comparisons to the existing CX/EX combo so not particularly useful.
> 
> https://6moons.com/audioreview_articles/antipodes3/



@Clive101  is being naughty and is tempting me towards a K50 and I admit I am interested. I have read this review (and which may have been mentioned already) and it does compare it to the CX/EX.

https://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/re...rk-player-reviews/antipodes-k50-music-server/

Interestingly this review talks at length about the differences in sound between Roon and other players and this resonates with my experiences of Roon in experimental mode on the Statement and where I prefer iPeng. By comparison Roon seems to have a very closed in sound.


----------



## Clive101

Software does make a difference in my experience.
I used Minim Server with the CX EX which I found to be better than Roon with Squeezelite as the player.
Forget Roon with Roon Ready IMHO.
With the K50 Roon with Squeezelite was very good I wonder how much better it will be with Minim Server but alas the new models do not have this option.
Perhaps one day Minim server will be available.
I will cover this in a later post.

@Triode User We all look forward to your comments if you get a demo of the K50


----------



## veloaudio

Following this thread for a little bit as I’m eyeing a New old stock EX or S30/40. Thanks all for the excellent information!

Does anyone have some recommended US Dealers to contact for purchasing? I wish Antipodes had a dealer list in the web site.


----------



## Clive101 (Dec 4, 2020)

@veloaudio 
Contact Antipodes Audio
Try the link above and I am sure someone will make contact
Let us all know how you get on


----------



## Progisus

Thanks @Clive101 for your honest findings on high end servers. I would love to hear the K50 but my humble EX is filling my needs for the present. Many say burn in is not a thing but I must say the EX really came into it’s own at about the 6 month mark. I have tried several roon cores and versions of win, osx, linux and the EX is the only one that removes the glare in the upper mids.


----------



## Whazzzup

I was surprised by DX. It did improve somewhat after a few hundred hours but was surprisingly deep and rich from the get go, then again maybe it was just coming from my ds gt


----------



## andrewd01

@Clive101 Very interesting that the K50 is on par or perhaps slightly better than SGM depending on personal taste.  That’s a win for the K50 since its at least £5k cheaper and does not require a custom rack.  Looking forward to your comments comparing the K50 to the K30 and the CX/EX combo.


----------



## veloaudio

Progisus said:


> Thanks @Clive101 for your honest findings on high end servers. I would love to hear the K50 but my humble EX is filling my needs for the present. Many say burn in is not a thing but I must say the EX really came into it’s own at about the 6 month mark. I have tried several roon cores and versions of win, osx, linux and the EX is the only one that removes the glare in the upper mids.



Im really close to pulling the trigger on an EX. Can you tell what others streamers you auditioned before going with the EX?


----------



## F208Frank (Dec 5, 2020)

frankensmurf said:


> Your CX performs exactly the same function as the Roon Nucleus. If you want to connect to your main system, you just need a Roon endpoint, not another Core.
> 
> From your signature, it looks like you have a Lumin U1. You should be able to leave the CX as is, running as core, and run your Lumin U1 as another Zone connected to the same Roon core. I don't understand why you would need another Roon Core, unless you want to run two separate libraries.
> 
> If I've misunderstood and you don't have a Lumin U1, and you just need another Roon endpoint, you should get that. The BlueSound Node is fine; but there are various other options from Auralic, and others. I'm not familiar with your Anthem receiver but it's possible (if it's relatively recent) that it works as a Roon Endpoint on its own.


Thanks for the reply, yes you are correct I no longer have the Lumin, I sold it mainly because I wanted to use roon on all my audio related gear.

So I now have the Cx/Ex in my headphone rig and the Nucleus in the speaker rig.

I have connected the Nucleus into my Anthem DAC (speaker dac) via USB and it plays fine. Do you think there are benefits of using the Cx as the core over the Nucleus as it is a "better" item than the Nucleus, or would in my case, taking out the Ex be logical since the Nucleus can be used as a Core anyways and just use the Cx in my headphone rig? 

I hope you understand what I am trying to ask. Thank you in advance.


----------



## Progisus

veloaudio said:


> Im really close to pulling the trigger on an EX. Can you tell what others streamers you auditioned before going with the EX?


Before the EX I used pi 3’s with Allo DigiOne or Justboom toslink or various Macbooks and NUC’s usb into my Chord dacs. I really liked the idea of a roon core and hqplayer server in one box. @Whazzzup thread about his DX and it’s super quiet usb port helped me pull the trigger.


----------



## Clive101

Taiko VS Antipodes K50 Update

I have tried the miniDNLA server with MPD as the player on the K50 and was in the same ball park as the Taiko with regard to being crisp and having similar precision.
Looking at the review (link posted earlier) the reviewer preferred DNLA  but it is unforgiving on poorly recorded tracks but there is the reward in SQ... if you prefer.
Personally I prefer with Roon server and Squeeze player but it is easy to switch back and forth.


----------



## Triode User

@Clive101 many thanks for your continuing updates. I feel the need for a conversation with Elite Audio . . .

regarding Roon, I am becoming increasingly dissatisfied with the sound of Roon with Squeezelite on my Statement. It seems to suck the life out of the music and give congested lower mids and recessed top end. The bass is also wooly and smeared. Most people might say it sound great but not compared to what I know the Statement can sound like.

I have been listening to Seasick Steve's latest 'Blues in Mono' (and loving it) but it all sounds so recessed on Roon but comes to life with real instruments when I turn Roon off and use iPeng or Squeezepad. I can tell in just the first few seconds of the Second track even before he starts playing and we are just hearing the background sounds. With iPeng/Squeezepad it makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand on end it is so realistic.


----------



## Clive101

@Triode User I tried different setups and still prefer the Roon Squeezelite on the K50. not sure why we differ perhaps software hardware differences ?

Moving on.

As you may all know the fuse blow on the K50 in the recent demo and I started to use the fuses from the K30 which although were the same rating 2 amp fast blow 5mm x 20mm were from of a different manufacturer than those on the K50, both are generic fuses.

While I was waiting for new fuses to be delivered by the dealer (and still waiting)  I ordered some new fuses.

Tony advised 1 amp slow blow owing to different countries voltage transformer etc.
So I ordered these     Hifi Lab Audio Fuse Ceramic High-End 1A 250V: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics  .....

WHICH HAS OPENED A CAN OF WORMS

The fuses sound different and are directional and it is not only me that can hear a difference...!

The new fuses I ordered one direction the sound on the instruments is very closed all jumbled together, the other way turn up the Bass Midrange and Treble full on, full on dynamics for me a little too much but if your are in the moon for that sort of thing bang on the money and the sound stage could be easier to hear..

The K30 Fuses also directional unknown make.

One way rubbish, the other bang on the money like a mellow version of the new fuses I purchased.

Can a few of you try changing the direction of the fuses in the input fixing where the mains cable fits in and get back to us if any change.

The arrow is for reference and does not indicate any thing else.


BE CAREFULL TO MAKE SURE THE VOLTAGE IS SET TO THE CORRECT VOLTAGE.


----------



## Whazzzup

Fuses? Not putting any damper here but I went through a battery flip issue in my old dt gs, and really have been driven towards S/S over tubes and would love a fuse less product. That’s just me old school plug n play Apple guy.  Tubes and fuses scare me.


----------



## Triode User

Clive101 said:


> @Triode User I tried different setups and still prefer the Roon Squeezelite on the K50. not sure why we differ perhaps software hardware differences ?



@Clive101 on the Roon matter, I emailed Nuno a bit more and it seems that with the Innuos in Experimental mode and iPeng it loads the whole track to RAM and plays entirely from RAM without having to read the hard disk any more. With Roon Squeezelite mode the Innuos only loads part of the track to RAM and keeps having to read from the hard drive all through the track. This is not something that Innuos can correct with Roon because it is a Roon function. The difference in sound quality is sufficient for me to have abandoned Roon for the moment despite having a lifetime subscription and I am using iPeng.

Elite Audio have offered me a demo of the K50 and I have accepted so just need to sort out the timing now. I’m excited to hear it as everything seems promising for me to swop to the K50.


----------



## Clive101

@Triode User that would explain your difference, I also ditched Roon (life time member) for MinimServer on the CX EX combo.
I hope the K50 meets your expectations vs the Innuos Statement. I never tried the Statement owing to the dealer letting me down but I have listened at many shows and looking forward to your view on the difference between them.
May I send you some fuses to try if that is not too forward I would appreciate your view if they make any difference but I appreciate you may not wish to comment ?


----------



## cczero17

Hey all,

I dip into viewing this thread every now and again to see what's going on in the Antipodes world 😁.

I will be sticking with my CX/EX Solution but will look to add the new tech hardware updates when available.

One thing that interests me and can't get my head around is using something other than Roon. I don't know what it is but something in my digital chain needs a tweak to open up the treble a touch more, to get close to my analogue set up. My digital side is s touch warmer.

So, could Roon be the culprit?

How do I add another management software/hub to the CX to try? Do I need to install anything on my EX too? I'm reading a few different ones here. What else do I need to know/do.....I might need an idiots guide 🤣🤣.

Oh, I also use HqPlayer so not sure if that makes a difference

Cheers All

Bill


----------



## andrewd01

This ebay seller claims that synergistic research Orange fuses make a significant difference:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Antipode...ynergistic-Research-Orange-fuses/124389729468

Maybe I will try this at some time in the future.


----------



## andrewd01

As far as I understand it minimserver is really only a viable option for a local music collection?
99.9% of my listening is on Tidal now.  I would not give up Roon for its excellent Tidal integration.  In particular the ability to find new music that I genuinely like is priceless.


----------



## Clive101 (Dec 13, 2020)

I have used Qobuz with MinimServer but the interface is not as good as Roon.
The following link gives help on the issue  MinimServer Forum - MQA through TIDAL in MinimServer 

I had the "Blue" fuses for a while but found them too bright and the "Orange" seemed to suck the midrange others thought this at first then loved the orange fuses but I am referring to UK plugs.

I now found the best cheapest upgrade which is to bypass the fuse see enclosed. I have power conditioner suppling my HiFi this acts a system fuse I see no point in having several fuses all of which IMHO degrade the sound. My system took a leap forward in SQ, I assume this is why so many people use Schuko Plugs in the UK.

*Caveat I do not recommend removing fuses for safety reasons*.


----------



## andrewd01

I use a PS Audio P5 power regenerator that I bought when we lived in USA.  I sent it to PS audio to get the voltage changed to 230 V when we left USA, but left the US style sockets in place.  This therefore removes the extra fuse in line for every power cord.  Almost all equipment has a fuse at the input terminal so I don’t see the point in having an extra one at the plug.  No other countries do this.


----------



## Triode User

@Clive101  The demo K50 is due to arrive on Wednesday.

Re the fuses, yes please I'm up for trying some if you send. Message me if you don't have my address.


----------



## Triode User

The K50 arrived on Wednesday last week. I admit it has taken a few days to get comfortable with the options available for the Server and Player set up but the last couple of days have been very fruitful.

So far I have only used :-
1. Roon on Server and Roon on Player, 
2. Roon on Server and Squeeze on Player,
3. Squeeze on Server and Squeeze on Player.

Each has been tried with USB and spdif (bnc) and playing back local files stored on the Server hard drive (Samsung 4TB SSD).

It is very very interesting and I like what I hear. 

I'm currently listening to Roon Server, Squeeze Player and spdif bnc output (to Mscaler and Dave) but will get round to trying all the options and will report back later next week.


----------



## andrewd01 (Dec 20, 2020)

Hi @Triode User thanks for posting your thoughts.  Please give some consideration to trying HQPlayer as the renderer (using Sinc-M or sinc-L, LNS15 noise shaper and bypassing M scaler). It is pre-installed on the Antipodes and plays for 30 minutes without a license. It is integrated with Roon so you simply select HQ Player as the source in Roon. Even if you have tried it in the past, I think it is worth giving it another chance with Antipodes hardware.  Since you are an M scaler owner it would be very interesting to hear your thoughts on this comparison.  There are very few reviews from people who have compared the two with good quality hardware.


----------



## Triode User

Hi @andrewd01  I fully intend to try HQP but didn't want to charge around like a bull in a china shop. I wanted to get to grips with the basics first.

One thing I have just learned is that it is best to bypass the File Management feature in the MyAntipodes web based access and to instead just to access the K50 direct as if it was any other server connected to the network. That discovery made copying over ripped files to the K50 so much simpler.


----------



## andrewd01

Triode User said:


> Hi @andrewd01  I fully intend to try HQP but didn't want to charge around like a bull in a china shop. I wanted to get to grips with the basics first.
> 
> One thing I have just learned is that it is best to bypass the File Management feature in the MyAntipodes web based access and to instead just to access the K50 direct as if it was any other server connected to the network. That discovery made copying over ripped files to the K50 so much simpler.



Thanks, no rush.  Your comments about the file management sound familiar, I think I went down the same path with my EX.  I just copied the files in Mac Finder.


----------



## Triode User

andrewd01 said:


> . I just copied the files in Mac Finder.



Yep. 👍


----------



## Progisus

As I’ve settled on keeping my roon core on the EX, I am keeping with roon’s recommendation and streaming to my endpoint. To that end I picked up an Allo Usbridge Signature. I am feeding from the EX using HQPlayer. I have network 1 connected to the internet and network 2 as a direct feed through fiber to the usbridge. The bridge runs ropieeeXL with naa enabled. From the low noise usb it’s a Supra usb to the TT2. Imho there is a bit more detail in the upper range than usb direct. Probably expectation bias but it is not less for sure. It is also a smaller box on the listening station table. I have an iFi iPower X coming as a supply for the bridge. I’ll have lots of time over Christmas as we are locked away from the grandkids unfortunately.


----------



## Whazzzup

Just found k50 online in Canada for sale. Yikes( I’ll be sticking with DX) but salivate anyways


----------



## Progisus

The EX will be my Antipodes end game unless there is a reasonable hardware upgrade offered. The whole server game has gotten out of hand price wise. The new mac mini M1 silicon is looking like a good core as long as your player is remote.


----------



## andrewd01

I am thinking of adding a used CX next year.  That way I can leave my Roon core running 24/7.  I am still interested in learning how awesome the K50 is.  It will become affordable when the K500 comes out in 2 years time.


----------



## Whazzzup (Dec 21, 2020)

i have been through the but there’s this in the lineup it’s 50% the cost and ...% of the flagship sound quality. Always get the flagship server wise from antipodes.


----------



## naynay

The K50 is more money for less if compared to the CX-EX with the two box solution.


----------



## Triode User

naynay said:


> The K50 is more money for less if compared to the CX-EX with the two box solution.



That is an interesting proposition especially as the CX and EX are being heavily discounted at the moment. The acid test though is whether the K50 sounds better than the the CX / EC combination.

The K50 review I saw seemed to conclude that the CX + EC had been their reference system until they tried the K50. I admit I am new to the Antipodes sound but all I can say is that so far I like the K50 demo I am trying but it is relatively early days (also the last couple of days was my first dip of my toe in the water with HQP on the K50).


----------



## Clive101

naynay said:


> The K50 is more money for less if compared to the CX-EX with the two box solution.



I have the CX EX combo and the K50, K30 on demo your comparison, is perhaps a little too harsh. 

There is a very strong debate to be had on USB SQ between the K30 and K50 for the price if you were to compare SQ. The K50 has a lot more hardware that you do not get with the K30 or for that matter the CX EX combo.

For me, for the price, a fair comparison would be the K30 vs the CX EX combo both around 10k give or take retail cost. IMO the K30 wins not only on SQ but being one box you only need one mains cable and no ethernet cable a slam dunk to the K30 as the savings on cables make it in essence cheaper....BUT the Antipodes are supplied with a reference audiophile cable (so the ethernet cable may be discounted). One button to switch on a big plus for me.

K30 vs CX EX combo there is a definite improvement with the K30 with regard to SQ...but again if you have CX or EX and purchase a second hand CX or EX a debate could be had SQ vs price.

Short Story IMO

CX or EX owners try to purchase a second CX or EX to make the combo and what ever you do use the Antipodes ethernet cable and burn it in IMHO.

IF you have a CX EX combo trade in get either the K30 or K50.

The K30 and K50 are very close on USB output and if you only use USB output get the K30 for the price at 5k cheaper looks to be better value...but as I said the earlier the K50 has a lot more kit onboard and you may kick yourself for not paying that extra if you ever upgrade hardware.

K50 on S/PDIF is my preference.

In would say as you go up the range there is an equal gain for price unless you compare the USB between the K30 and K50 which I found quite close.

I also found one SSD to be better than two SSDs (SQ) in particular when I compared the K50 (two SSDs) vs K30 (one SSD) very close or identical others may differ ?

PS I have two SSDs up for sale 4TB Evo for sale if anyone's interested PM me ?


----------



## andrewd01

One benefit of the two box solution is that you can leave the roon core running 24/7.  If using HQP as the renderer and a Chord DAC, the machine running HQP needs to be restarted after the DAC is turned on, due to an issue with the USB handshake.  It could be fixed with software updates but it doesn’t seem that Signalyst or Antipodes are interested in resolving this.


----------



## naynay (Dec 24, 2020)

I'm awaiting the OLADRA upgrade for the CX-EX to see how it compares to the new line k series.
To me the two box solution has its advantages 1 being should one ever develope a fault and has to be shipped back to Antipodes you can still have access to your music using the other box.


----------



## Triode User (Dec 24, 2020)

andrewd01 said:


> One benefit of the two box solution is that you can leave the roon core running 24/7.  If using HQP as the renderer and a Chord DAC, the machine running HQP needs to be restarted after the DAC is turned on, due to an issue with the USB handshake.  It could be fixed with software updates but it doesn’t seem that Signalyst or Antipodes are interested in resolving this.



I always leave my dac and streamer running 24/7 anyway so that is not an issue for me. That is what I have been doing with my demo K50 and it means the server is available for other Roon endpoints in the house.


----------



## Whazzzup

New Zealand


----------



## naynay

Whazzzup said:


> New Zealand


That's even further so an even longer wait lol.


----------



## Clive101




----------



## Triode User

As we lurch into a new decade I spent more time last night listening to the K50 running Roon + HQ Player connected to Dave by USB and comparing it to the Innuos Statement with iPeng (ie whole track loaded to RAM for playback) connected to Mscaler by USB.

At the moment I just cannot get HQPlayer to be the equal of the Statement / MScaler combination no matter which filters I try. It just lacks the delicate detail and depth of the Mscaler.

I am not giving up on HQP just yet and will try more options but it might eventually be that the best sound quality with the K50 is to retain the mscaler in the system and ditch HQP but if any HQP users have suggestions they would be welcome.


----------



## andrewd01

Triode User said:


> As we lurch into a new decade I spent more time last night listening to the K50 running Roon + HQ Player connected to Dave by USB and comparing it to the Innuos Statement with iPeng (ie whole track loaded to RAM for playback) connected to Mscaler by USB.
> 
> At the moment I just cannot get HQPlayer to be the equal of the Statement / MScaler combination no matter which filters I try. It just lacks the delicate detail and depth of the Mscaler.
> 
> I am not giving up on HQP just yet and will try more options but it might eventually be that the best sound quality with the K50 is to retain the mscaler in the system and ditch HQP but if any HQP users have suggestions they would be welcome.



Thanks for sharing your thoughts.  I think it would be more interesting to hear your opinion of HQP vs M scaler where that is the only variable being changed, eg K50>Ipeng renderer>Mscaler>Dave vs K50>HQP renderer>Dave. 

 I suppose you are using Storm Reference BNC cables between the M scaler and Dave, so the incremental cost of including the M scaler in the chain is ~£5k.  It would be interesting to know how the two options compare if using the supplied BNC cables between M scaler and Dave.


----------



## Triode User

andrewd01 said:


> Thanks for sharing your thoughts.  I think it would be more interesting to hear your opinion of HQP vs M scaler where that is the only variable being changed, eg K50>Ipeng renderer>Mscaler>Dave vs K50>HQP renderer>Dave.
> 
> I suppose you are using Storm Reference BNC cables between the M scaler and Dave, so the incremental cost of including the M scaler in the chain is ~£5k.  It would be interesting to know how the two options compare if using the supplied BNC cables between M scaler and Dave.



Agreed, with your logic although for me the decision is whether I can get a Roon based system on the K50 to sound as good as the Statement + iPeng. In other words, do I keep the Statement and cope with the inferior user interface of iPeng or swop to the K50 (using Roon with HQP or with Squeezelite or whatever). A couple of people have suggested other options to me as well and I hope to explore them.

I realise that others will be more interested in hearing my opinion of HQP vs M scaler where that is the only variable being changed, eg as you say, K50>Ipeng renderer>Mscaler>Dave vs K50>HQP renderer>Dave - and so I will do that and report back!!

As to the dual bnc cables I was using a new (cheaper) prototype.


----------



## Uncle Monty

Apologies in advance for what is probably a stupid question, but why would you use HQPlayer when you already have an MScaler?

(I'll admit I'm not entirely sure exactly how HQP works, despite Googling it - a combination of old age and alcohol has turned my mind into mush...)


----------



## Progisus

To be honest, probably the removal of mscaler and future cable sales will always subliminally bias your opinion. When I had my mscaler and compared it to HQPlayer I found sinc-m, lns15 768k, adaptive rate checked was comparable with the genre of music I mainly listen to. Progressive rock.


----------



## andrewd01 (Jan 2, 2021)

Uncle Monty said:


> Apologies in advance for what is probably a stupid question, but why would you use HQPlayer when you already have an MScaler?
> 
> (I'll admit I'm not entirely sure exactly how HQP works, despite Googling it - a combination of old age and alcohol has turned my mind into mush...)



HQPlayer is a software solution to apply 16x, 1-2million-tap sinc upscaling with high order noise shaping (aka dither).  The M scaler does the same thing in a separate hardware box with proprietary code on an FPGA.  The M scaler adds between £3.5k and £5k to your system cost  (increased cost if you use fancy BNC cables), and extra clutter due to additional power supplies and cables. 

Some people who have tried both think the HQP solution sounds very close to, or even better than M scaler (see huge thread on Roon forums: ‘Which HQP filter are you using’).  It is of course system dependent; it varies depending on what server, DAC, amps, headphones you are using.  That is why it is very useful to get different opinions from people with different systems, but ultimately this is something you need to try yourself.  If you already own an M scaler and then find that HQP is a satisfactory substitute, the M scaler can be sold to recover a substantial fraction of its cost.


----------



## Progisus

At present: EX(roon)>network 2>fibre>Allo USBridge(ropieeeXL)>TT2

 Before the hqplayer upgrade to 4.20.2 I was having stutters so I decided to enable Squeeze on the ropieee to give it a try. I must say it is a definite upgrade from raat and maybe better than hqplayer.


----------



## Triode User

Help please with using HQPDcontrol on an ipad to control HQP on the Antipodes K50. 

On the suggestion of some other Head-Fi members I have disabled Roon on the K50 server (which I had been using to control HQP) and instead I want to use HQPDcontrol on an ipad to control file selction and playing with HQP. 

HQPDcontrol automatically discovers the K50 server but it does not display any albums and it seems to want the player port to be manually entered. Any ideas for what I am doing wrong or need to do?


----------



## andrewd01 (Jan 11, 2021)

Antipodes used to have an excellent guide for setting up all of the apps, but this has been removed from the web site.
I would suggest emailing Tony Devitt  at Antipodes for direct support (support@antipodes.audio).  @Kapiti, can we please have these user guides back on the Antipodes web site? they can be in a legacy section if necessary.

Basically, you turn on HQPlayer with your Roon ipad app (under settings).  You then use Roon as a front end. You will see HQPlayer as an available player in Roon.

Edit, I see you were already using Roon.  Why would you possibly not want to not use this?


----------



## Triode User

andrewd01 said:


> Antipodes used to have an excellent guide for setting up all of the apps, but this has been removed from the web site.
> I would suggest emailing Tony Devitt  at Antipodes for direct support (support@antipodes.audio).  @Kapiti, can we please have these user guides back on the Antipodes web site? they can be in a legacy section if necessary.
> 
> Basically, you turn on HQPlayer with your Roon ipad app (under settings).  You then use Roon as a front end. You will see HQPlayer as an available player in Roon.
> ...



I have come to the conclusion that Roon degrades the sound quality and this has been confirmed by other users. 

Roon has a fantastic user interface and I took out a lifetime sub quite a while ago but it constantly traffics a high amount of info on the LAN and many claim this is the cause of the degraded sound quality.

My dealer, Elite, are going to ask Antipodes for me.


----------



## andrewd01

Fair enough.  I have not experimented with other solutions since getting Roon, but am happy with the sound.  I don’t think I could go back to a clunky old-school interface and missing out on discovering five or six new albums in a listening session just to eek out the last fraction of sound quality.   The rest of my chain is probably not good enough to hear the full difference from different software solutions in any case.


----------



## Whazzzup

I’m sticking with roon, but I’m plug n play lazy. Plus it sounds good to me.


----------



## Clive101

Over the weekend I noticed the K50 was a little warm not cold (ish) as usual.
So I looked at the CPU load on the server with the user interface tab, the load was around 30% which is very high since nothing was playing.
I discovered it was Roon for some reason so after a reinstall the loading went down to 1%.
I guess K50 did an auto update any other users had the same problem ?
@Triode User it may explain the issue you are having with Roon as if it were running around 30% it may dent SQ ?
@Kapiti Has anyone else experienced this problem ?


----------



## Uncle Monty

Triode User said:


> I have come to the conclusion that Roon degrades the sound quality and this has been confirmed by other users.
> 
> Roon has a fantastic user interface and I took out a lifetime sub quite a while ago but it constantly traffics a high amount of info on the LAN and many claim this is the cause of the degraded sound quality.
> 
> My dealer, Elite, are going to ask Antipodes for me.


Will Roon degrade sound quality if listening from storage on Antipodes or only when streaming?


----------



## Triode User

Uncle Monty said:


> Will Roon degrade sound quality if listening from storage on Antipodes or only when streaming?



My listening was using locally stored ripped or downloaded files. My experiences are not just me, there are a number of other Head-Fi members who have abandoned Roon for listening when sound quality is paramount. I will however continue to use Roon for our kitchen system where its interface and features such as Roon Radio are highly valued. For this, I have taken the Roon core off the K50 and put it on the iMac in my home office where it can chunter away in the background without causing any issues.


----------



## Whazzzup

I’m sticking with the kitchen sink system as I seem not to be one of the members who abandoned roon. Maybe my ability to listen for sound quality isn’t paramount enough.


----------



## Progisus

Roon does recommend not having the renderer on the same machine as the core. Antipodes recommends this as well with the 2 box solution. I’ve put the core on the EX and used it’s bridged network port 2 to feed directly to a USBridge Signature. I’ve left upsampling behind for the moment and used the Squeezelite support of roon and ropieee in the bridge. The improvement rivals hqplayer/mscaler and may even be better. I’ll see if extended listening leads to any fatigue.


----------



## td19 (Jan 15, 2021)

Triode User said:


> Help please with using HQPDcontrol on an ipad to control HQP on the Antipodes K50.
> 
> On the suggestion of some other Head-Fi members I have disabled Roon on the K50 server (which I had been using to control HQP) and instead I want to use HQPDcontrol on an ipad to control file selction and playing with HQP.
> 
> HQPDcontrol automatically discovers the K50 server but it does not display any albums and it seems to want the player port to be manually entered. Any ideas for what I am doing wrong or need to do?


On the HQPlayer Server Configuration screen click Library on the line at the bottom of the screen. In the Library screen that appears enter /storage/music at Path and then Scan. You should then sync the HQPlayer Library in HQPDControl, and maybe set Albums as the preferred display in Settings.
The HQ player does not have a port. Set Backend to 'Network Audio' in the HQP Config screen and set the HQP NAA as the active player in the Players section on the K50. The NAA should then be automatically discovered.


----------



## andrewd01

@Clive101 did you just trade in your CX/EX to Elite audio?  I might be the new owner of your CX!


----------



## Clive101

I traded in a CX and EX for a K50 (all silver) recently. 
Please let us know how you are getting on with the combo.
When will it arrive ?


----------



## andrewd01

Clive101 said:


> I traded in a CX and EX for a K50 (all silver) recently.
> Please let us know how you are getting on with the combo.
> When will it arrive ?




Sounds like it is yours I bought. It should arrive next week.
 I already have a silver EX that I bought from Elite last year. We have just moved and I am making some big changes to the system.  I am going to combine the headphone and main system in one cabinet, which will need to be custom made.  So it will probably be a few months before I get the CX in the system.


----------



## Progisus

andrewd01 said:


> Sounds like it is yours I bought. It should arrive next week.
> I already have a silver EX that I bought from Elite last year. We have just moved and I am making some big changes to the system.  I am going to combine the headphone and main system in one cabinet, which will need to be custom made.  So it will probably be a few months before I get the CX in the system.


Congrats. I bet the combo will be brilliant.


----------



## Whazzzup

I’m lurking


----------



## Progisus

Whazzzup said:


> I’m lurking


You started this Antipodes revolution after all.


----------



## andrewd01

The CX has arrived, just need to find the cables to hook it up and work out how to set it up as my Roon core, all in the middle of unpacking stuff from the move.


----------



## Triode User

I am in the final stages of getting to grips with my loan demo K50 and I have to admit that the more I learn about how to use it and the more I listen to it the more impressed I am with how it sounds . . . . 

The first two or even three weeks were rather like trying to drive a car for the first time and with most attempts resulting with no sound at all. However that was just me being used to a plug it in and start listening expectation. Now I can reliably swop between most of the player and server options and frustration has been replaced with joy.

More later when it comes to the decision making process of handing it back or not and then I hope to report on my thoughts.


----------



## Whazzzup

cool


----------



## cczero17

Clive101 said:


> I have the CX EX combo and the K50, K30 on demo your comparison, is perhaps a little too harsh.
> 
> There is a very strong debate to be had on USB SQ between the K30 and K50 for the price if you were to compare SQ. The K50 has a lot more hardware that you do not get with the K30 or for that matter the CX EX combo.
> 
> ...


Hi,

That's all well and good stating that CX/EX owners should trade in for a K30 but you are forgetting that there are to be internal upgrades coming to the CX and EX taken from the new tech. 

I'm guessing that these would then surpass the K30 in terms of SQ to be nearer the K50. That's my thoughts anyway 😁


----------



## Clive101 (Jan 22, 2021)

cczero17 said:


> Hi,
> 
> That's all well and good stating that CX/EX owners should trade in for a K30 but you are forgetting that there are to be internal upgrades coming to the CX and EX taken from the new tech.
> 
> I'm guessing that these would then surpass the K30 in terms of SQ to be nearer the K50. That's my thoughts anyway 😁



A very good point indeed.

I did enquire about upgrading, the release date, cost and SQ were uncertain and as the price of the combo were holding fair when I part exchanged the extra cost to me was worth the punt to upgrade, I went the extra mile and ordered the K50.

So now the combo is approx 5 K second hand on eBay plus cost of upgrade ? Plus one extra mains cable and ethernet cable (if the Antipodes reference cable is missing).

Upgraded CX EX combo vs K30 SQ ? I suspect it will be close...very close. Guess we have to wait on that but I was fed up with the two box start-up and shut-down.

Can I say 7k vs 10k if so gap in cost is reasonable IMHO  (new vs old, two boxes vs one, the SQ ? extra warranty). Sure 3 K is a lot of money.

Edit found this link 
Terry Talks: the Antipodes K50 Music Server overview… - YouTube


----------



## Uncle Monty (Jan 22, 2021)

Clive101 said:


> I was fed up with the two box start-up and shut-down.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I leave mine on all the time - is that bad?

also - these internal upgrades for the CX/EX - does anyone know how they'll be done - remote / dealer / post to NZ?


----------



## Progisus

Uncle Monty said:


> I leave mine on all the time - is that bad?


I read it can take a few hours for the power supply in the EX to warm up (stabilize). I don’t see a problem with shutting down the software though but I always leave it switched on. Personally coming from the automation industry I have seen more problems with turning off/on then leaving electronics energized. We always had a ups on every system.


----------



## cczero17

Uncle Monty said:


> I leave mine on all the time - is that bad?
> 
> also - these internal upgrades for the CX/EX - does anyone know how they'll be done - remote / dealer / post to NZ?



Can't see it being remote as it's a hardware upgrade ( so I believe) ...and then I guess it then depends on the complexity. 

I had to have the light in my EX changed as it was as so much brighter than my CX. This was done by a dealer that lives about an hour away from me...which is much better than sending it all the way back to NZ . However changing a light is probably a touch easier than the what the upgrades will be lol


----------



## Uncle Monty

One of the lights on mine is much brighter too - good to know!


----------



## naynay

The dim light issue was on the early models.
CEO Mark was aware of this and made changes to the later models.


----------



## richardloh (Jan 23, 2021)

naynay said:


> The dim light issue was on the early models.
> CEO Mark was aware of this and made changes to the later models.



Hi,

Can anyone pls share how the led(s) and pcba are for me the explore the possibility of modification on color and brightness ?

If it is 4 pins RGB multicolor type, it would be impossible to modify the color from current green to my preferred blue with my limited knowledge while brightness will probably still be possible with the correct resistor value change if it is too bright ?

My CX was bought used and it was said to have been modded to almost not lighted up because previous owner wanted it that way.

TIA and cheers.

Richard

https://www.circuitbread.com/tutorials/how-rgb-leds-work-and-how-to-control-color


----------



## cczero17

naynay said:


> The dim light issue was on the early models.
> CEO Mark was aware of this and made changes to the later models.


I found the opposite. My older EX was waaaay brighter than a brand new CX that received December 2019. The CX light is much preferred by my retinas lol.


----------



## naynay (Jan 23, 2021)

cczero17 said:


> I found the opposite. My older EX was waaaay brighter than a brand new CX that received December 2019. The CX light is much preferred by my retinas lol.


It was more to do with the CX-EX combo with the one dimmer than the other so looked odd when they were stacked or side by side.
You won't get any variation now on the new combo setups.


----------



## andrewd01 (Jan 23, 2021)

I now have the CX in my system.  I had a long listening session last night.  It didn’t take long to notice that the combination is clearly quite a significant step up from the stand alone EX.  I have read some posts on other forums that the CX doesn’t  bring much if you mainly stream music from Tidal etc.  I completely disagree, since 99% of my listening is Tidal now. 

I am using a Supra ethernet cable between EX and CX for now while the Antipodes cable is getting burned in between my modem and wifi router (based on recommendation from @Clive101 since I have his old CX and he hadn’t burned in this particular cable).  After 2 months I will swap the cables and report back.

There is no documentation on how to swap a Roon core from an EX to CX so here are some tips based on recommendations from Mark at Antipodes:

1. Install a new SSD in the CX and add to storage in the antipodes.online interface.  I used a disk of identical type, but not sure if this is necessary.
2. Power down both CX and EX, then remove the disk installed in step 1 and replace with the disk from the EX.
3. Fire up both machines.  In the settings delete the Roon core from the EX.
4. In Roon remote select the new Roon core on the CX, enter passwords for Roon and Tidal etc.  Restore your latest backup.

Mark warned that it is important not to skip step 1.  If you just add your EX disk in the CX and then try to add this disk to storage it will delete the contents of the disk!

To be extra safe you can make a copy of your EX disk after step1.  This is a royal PITA.  My tiny 150Gb library took a day to copy and at the final stage I get error message that some files couldn’t copy because of .DS_store files.  This then requires going through hundreds of albums one by one to find the missing files! 

For now I am leaving my setup as Roon on CX and HQPlayer on EX.  I am probably missing the last fraction of sq, but don’t really enjoy faffing with computers much.


----------



## cczero17

andrewd01 said:


> I now have the CX in my system.  I had a long listening session last night.  It didn’t take long to notice that the combination is clearly quite a significant step up from the stand alone EX.  I have read some posts on other forums that the CX doesn’t  bring much if you mainly stream music from Tidal etc.  I completely disagree, since 99% of my listening is Tidal now.
> 
> I am using a Supra ethernet cable between EX and CX for now while the Antipodes cable is getting burned in between my modem and wifi router (based on recommendation from @Clive101 since I have his old CX and he hadn’t burned in this particular cable).  After 2 months I will swap the cables and report back.
> 
> ...



How important is the Ethernet between the 2 units. Not what I have but I difnt spend a fortune on it. I have the SOtM from the switch to the CX


----------



## John Carrigan

Anyone thought about getting a K40.

I've a standalone CX playing to my Devialet 1000Pro via ethernet cable, so thinking if I upgrade then K40 would be the best choice.

Any comments appreciated


----------



## andrewd01

cczero17 said:


> How important is the Ethernet between the 2 units. Not what I have but I difnt spend a fortune on it. I have the SOtM from the switch to the CX



I will let you know after I swap out the cables in two months.  To me it is intuitive that the cable closest to the dac/amp would be the most important, but I will make up my mind after I do the test.


----------



## John Carrigan

My understanding is it's the other way around.

Require best ethernet into the Antipodes, with the Antipodes doing a final clean-up before sending to endpoint (if input ethernet has more 'noise' then Antipodes has more work to do to clean up).


----------



## Clive101 (Jan 24, 2021)

John Carrigan said:


> Anyone thought about getting a K40.
> 
> I've a standalone CX playing to my Devialet 1000Pro via ethernet cable, so thinking if I upgrade then K40 would be the best choice.
> 
> Any comments appreciated





John Carrigan said:


> My understanding is it's the other way around.
> 
> Require best ethernet into the Antipodes, with the Antipodes doing a final clean-up before sending to endpoint (if input ethernet has more 'noise' then Antipodes has more work to do to clean up).



Welcome to the thread.

Devialet 1000 pro very nice 

If it were me get the K50 rather than the K40 and part Ex the CX. The K50 is 5 k more but if you may get a good deal from your dealer who knows you may be flat on cost (or close).

You then have no choice or worries about ethernet cables and most importantly use that S/PDIF into your Devialet, IMHO better than ethernet or USB.

I get very good results with the "Wave Cable" BNC to BNC but I am sure it could be made RCA to RCA.

The K50 and CX EX combo are immune to network noise IMHO just use the reference cable that comes with the Antipodes (it needs lots of burning in) between them and say a Supra to the network, from the K50 to the network use the Antipodes reference cable.

Try both scenarios before you part with any cash.

What I love about the K50 no fancy network switches, ethernet cables or re-clockers needed, just a Wave Cable and your good to go with one box. Oh and only one mains cable and only one shelf on the HiFi rack need I say more.


----------



## cczero17

andrewd01 said:


> I will let you know after I swap out the cables in two months.  To me it is intuitive that the cable closest to the dac/amp would be the most important, but I will make up my mind after I do the test.


I agree but I've had others say that there wasn't any improvement. However, I'm not that type of person to take that as gospel 👍


----------



## andrewd01

I have a question about using HQPlayer in a CX/EX setup.  Is it better to install the HQP server on the CX and then only run the NAA on the EX? This way the EX does the bare minimum amount of processing.

I currently have the HQP server on the EX since that was all I had when I bought the license.  I suppose I would need to buy another license if I want to run the HQP server on the CX.


----------



## cczero17

andrewd01 said:


> I have a question about using HQPlayer in a CX/EX setup.  Is it better to install the HQP server on the CX and then only run the NAA on the EX? This way the EX does the bare minimum amount of processing.
> 
> I currently have the HQP server on the EX since that was all I had when I bought the license.  I suppose I would need to buy another license if I want to run the HQP server on the CX.


Hey, yes that's the way I was advised to set it up


----------



## Progisus

andrewd01 said:


> I have a question about using HQPlayer in a CX/EX setup.  Is it better to install the HQP server on the CX and then only run the NAA on the EX? This way the EX does the bare minimum amount of processing.
> 
> I currently have the HQP server on the EX since that was all I had when I bought the license.  I suppose I would need to buy another license if I want to run the HQP server on the CX.


If you contact Jussi at signalyst he will transfer your license. Use the support email on the webpage. He did that for me when I upgraded to 2.8 and the fingerprint changed.


----------



## John Carrigan

Clive101 said:


> Welcome to the thread.
> 
> Devialet 1000 pro very nice
> 
> ...


Clive101

Thanks for the introduction to the thread.

I'm not expecting to get any more than $5k/$6k (hopefully more, but unsure) trade-in for the CX hence another $3k/$4k to upgrade to K40, whereas would be another $8k/$9k to get the K50 (too rich for me, especially as I'm not working).

My CX is being sent back to Antipodes as it has severe over heating problems after the F28 software update and will only go into play mode for a few minutes then it removes itself from the network (support have tried several times to work out what the problem is, but finally had to give up and request I send it back to Antipodes to investigate the issue). Either they can easily fix the issue or would be willing to give myself a good trade-in price to upgrade to a K40.

I know K50 would be the best option for upgrade, but just waaaaaaaaaay above my funds to purchase. I'm hoping the K40 will be a big leap over the CX and as I cause my D1000 Pro as the Roon player then just need to core solution of the K40.


----------



## Triode User

My loan/demo K50 has version 4.18.1 of embedded HQPlayer and despite removing HQP and then reinstalling from 'Available Apps' on the web interface it seems stuck on that version from July 2020. The latest embedded version is 4.21.0. 

Does any Antipodes owner have info on how to load the latest version?


----------



## Progisus

Triode User said:


> My loan/demo K50 has version 4.18.1 of embedded HQPlayer and despite removing HQP and then reinstalling from 'Available Apps' on the web interface it seems stuck on that version from July 2020. The latest embedded version is 4.21.0.
> 
> Does any Antipodes owner have info on how to load the latest version?


You need to run the software update. Not sure were it is on new K line. The latest takes up to a week from release to be added. I am looking forward to 4.21.0 as it is purported to fix the fail to start playback issue in 4.20.x.


----------



## Clive101

No idea how to update the K50 on the CX or EX it was easy, mystery on the K50.
I have 4.9 HQP on the server.
@Kapiti Please can you help us update the software.


----------



## andrewd01

Triode User said:


> My loan/demo K50 has version 4.18.1 of embedded HQPlayer and despite removing HQP and then reinstalling from 'Available Apps' on the web interface it seems stuck on that version from July 2020. The latest embedded version is 4.21.0.
> 
> Does any Antipodes owner have info on how to load the latest version?



Are you using Antipodes software version 2.7 or 2.8?  If the former, then I think 4.18.1 is the latest supported version of HQP.  Antipodes does not automatically release the latest version of HQP, they wait until they have tested in their system first.  I like this approach.


----------



## Triode User

andrewd01 said:


> Are you using Antipodes software version 2.7 or 2.8?  If the former, then I think 4.18.1 is the latest supported version of HQP.  Antipodes does not automatically release the latest version of HQP, they wait until they have tested in their system first.  I like this approach.



Thanks for the message. The K50 is silent regarding the software version but as it is the top of the line latest released version one would hope it is also running then latest software. 

1.18.1 was released in July 2020, ie six months ago and since then the later versions are reported to give better sound quality. I will pursue this direct with Antipodes and see if I can get a speedier incorporation of HQP updates.


----------



## F208Frank (Jan 26, 2021)

CX + EX for sale.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/abyss-tc-1266-w-full-system-for-sale.953164/#post-16131643

in case anyone here was interested, I bought them both brand new and am the first owner and have receipt to prove they are couple months old only. BARELY used.


----------



## andrewd01

Triode User said:


> Thanks for the message. The K50 is silent regarding the software version but as it is the top of the line latest released version one would hope it is also running then latest software.
> 
> 1.18.1 was released in July 2020, ie six months ago and since then the later versions are reported to give better sound quality. I will pursue this direct with Antipodes and see if I can get a speedier incorporation of HQP updates.



Please keep us posted.  If you click this, you should see a software version, either 2.7 or 2.8:
https://antipodes.audio/myantipodes/


----------



## Progisus

On EX CX you will need to upgrade to 2.8 to get any HQPlayer updates. Antipodes has an instruction sheet for the upgrade. Takes awhile but worth it. You may get a different HQPlayer fingerprint which will require a license update.


----------



## Triode User

andrewd01 said:


> Please keep us posted.  If you click this, you should see a software version, either 2.7 or 2.8:
> https://antipodes.audio/myantipodes/



Ah, I have looked at that page so many times but the software version was hiding in plain sight. 

It is software version AMSv3.0 on the K50.


----------



## F208Frank

Sup guys quick question if you can keep either the CX or EX for your speaker set up or headphone set up (speaker for me) would you take the CX or EX and why?


----------



## Progisus

F208Frank said:


> Sup guys quick question if you can keep either the CX or EX for your speaker set up or headphone set up (speaker for me) would you take the CX or EX and why?


I’ve decided on EX only for headphone listening. It was designed as a renderer.  I keep my core on a nuc with roon rock and an optical network connection to the EX. The CX was designed as a server mainly.


----------



## andrewd01 (Jan 26, 2021)

If I could only keep one it would be the EX.  I haven’t done the AB testing myself but most reviews indicate that the stand alone Ex sounds better than CX if connected to a DAC as an integrated server/player.


----------



## naynay

You also need to consider the size your music collection is. If its substantial the EX will not flow through as smooth as the CX will due having the better processor. This has been mentioned in some reviews.


----------



## andrewd01

I thought I would test a split HQP configuration with the server on CX and NAA on the EX.  I couldn’t get it to work.  If I look at the settings on the HQP on the CX I set the backend as Network Audio, but it can’t find any devices where I need to choose the back end at the bottom of the settings. Any ideas?


----------



## td19

andrewd01 said:


> I thought I would test a split HQP configuration with the server on CX and NAA on the EX.  I couldn’t get it to work.  If I look at the settings on the HQP on the CX I set the backend as Network Audio, but it can’t find any devices where I need to choose the back end at the bottom of the settings. Any ideas?


The DAC must be connected to the EX and NAA set to Active in Audio App Switcher  on the EX. Also check NAA Settings that Audio Device is set to 'USB DAC' (if that is what you are using).


----------



## andrewd01

td19 said:


> The DAC must be connected to the EX and NAA set to Active in Audio App Switcher  on the EX. Also check NAA Settings that Audio Device is set to 'USB DAC' (if that is what you are using).



Thanks,  I didn’t check the app switcher, will try again tonight.  I could not see anywhere to change the NAA settings.


----------



## td19

td19 said:


> The DAC must be connected to the EX and NAA set to Active in Audio App Switcher  on the EX. Also check NAA Settings that Audio Device is set to 'USB DAC' (if that is what you are using).


Sorry, you are right. HQPlayer NAA does not have a Settings screen. After you have made NAA Active in Audio App Switcher click 'Apply' in the HQP Config screen and the DAC should then show under Network Audio backend at the bottom of the screen,


----------



## andrewd01

td19 said:


> Sorry, you are right. HQPlayer NAA does not have a Settings screen. After you have made NAA Active in Audio App Switcher click 'Apply' in the HQP Config screen and the DAC should then show under Network Audio backend at the bottom of the screen,



Still no luck.  I see a choice of four antipodes options as the network back end.  I don’t see the DAC


----------



## andrewd01




----------



## andrewd01

Perhaps it is because I still have the HQP server installed on the EX?


----------



## td19

andrewd01 said:


> Perhaps it is because I still have the HQP server installed on the EX?


Yes, that possiblly could affect it. Uninstall the HQP Server from the EX and see if the CX Server now sees the DAC.


----------



## andrewd01

Ok thanks.  Job for tomorrow.  I want to make sure I can find my license file before I remove HQP server from the EX.


----------



## Progisus

andrewd01 said:


> Ok thanks.  Job for tomorrow.  I want to make sure I can find my license file before I remove HQP server from the EX.


Once a HQPlayer instance grabs an naa it will own it until told to look elsewhere. On tge EX you could set hqplayer to alsa and point the alsa to the analog out. That would free the naa for discovery by the CX. Hope this helps. That way you could keep the EX licensed until you want to get Jussi to transfer the license to the CX.


----------



## andrewd01

Progisus said:


> Once a HQPlayer instance grabs an naa it will own it until told to look elsewhere. On tge EX you could set hqplayer to alsa and point the alsa to the analog out. That would free the naa for discovery by the CX. Hope this helps. That way you could keep the EX licensed until you want to get Jussi to transfer the license to the CX.



Thanks, I will try that.  HQP on my EX is set to Alsa, but the back end is the TT2.  That is probably stopping the NAA from finding the TT2.  I want to test if the split configuration requires a restart of the CX due to the handshake issue.  If it does I will stay with the current configuration where I can leave the CX roon core running 24/7.


----------



## td19

andrewd01 said:


> Thanks, I will try that.  HQP on my EX is set to Alsa, but the back end is the TT2.  That is probably stopping the NAA from finding the TT2.  I want to test if the split configuration requires a restart of the CX due to the handshake issue.  If it does I will stay with the current configuration where I can leave the CX roon core running 24/7.


What is the 'handshake' issue?


----------



## andrewd01

td19 said:


> What is the 'handshake' issue?


I think it is specific to some Chord DAC’s.  If the DAC is turned off when you start the EX it loses the USB handshake to the DAC causing a blast of static instead of music.  This is an issue if you put the DAC in standby mode while the EX is powered on.  Resolved by putting the EX into standby mode and restarting after the DAC is turned on.

I have tested the split HQP setup now.  The tip to set the EX alsa back end to analogue outputs worked.  The handshake issue persists if you don’t put the EX into standby before restarting the DAC.  The good news is that you don’t have to power down both the EX and CX.  Regarding the sound quality, I am not convinced i can hear a difference.  I will probably keep running HQP server on the EX with an alsa back end to the TT2 because it is simpler.


----------



## Progisus

andrewd01 said:


> I think it is specific to some Chord DAC’s.  If the DAC is turned off when you start the EX it loses the USB handshake to the DAC causing a blast of static instead of music.  This is an issue if you put the DAC in standby mode while the EX is powered on.  Resolved by putting the EX into standby mode and restarting after the DAC is turned on.
> 
> I have tested the split HQP setup now.  The tip to set the EX alsa back end to analogue outputs worked.  The handshake issue persists if you don’t put the EX into standby before restarting the DAC.  The good news is that you don’t have to power down both the EX and CX.  Regarding the sound quality, I am not convinced i can hear a difference.  I will probably keep running HQP server on the EX with an alsa back end to the TT2 because it is simpler.


That is how I run mine but with my core on a NUC. I would love that second black box alongside though. Congrats on your acquisition. Are you running 2.7 or 2.8?


----------



## andrewd01

Progisus said:


> That is how I run mine but with my core on a NUC. I would love that second black box alongside though. Congrats on your acquisition. Are you running 2.7 or 2.8?



I am running 2.7.  I asked about 2.8 and Tony said they are fixing some minor issues so they are holding back with rolling out the upgrade until these are sorted.  Now is a good time to pick up a CX as they are appearing on the used market at a much more palatable price than the new price.  Quite a bargain given that they were only released a bit more than 2 years ago.  Nice not to have to worry about burn-in


----------



## richardloh

andrewd01 said:


> I am running 2.7.  I asked about 2.8 and Tony said they are fixing some minor issues so they are holding back with rolling out the upgrade until these are sorted.  Now is a good time to pick up a CX as they are appearing on the used market at a much more palatable price than the new price.  Quite a bargain given that they were only released a bit more than 2 years ago.  Nice not to have to worry about burn-in



And also get budget soon for the oladra upgrade for ex+cx stack in Apr 2021 ..  I had started saving. Cheers 😊


----------



## andrewd01

richardloh said:


> And also get budget soon for the oladra upgrade for ex+cx stack in Apr 2021 ..  I had started saving. Cheers 😊


That will be in next years budget. Looking forward to your reviews


----------



## F208Frank

Selling the CX/EX for anyone interested. Thank you.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-...s-x2-audioquest-vodka-ethernet-cables.953968/


----------



## Whazzzup

See you back frank some day, cheers


----------



## Clive101

Terry Talks: the Antipodes K50 Music Server overview… - YouTube


----------



## Whazzzup

Digging the new roon, nice interface. It may have improved SQ although not sure. just seems more detail and more mellow, less sharp edges, but it could be placebo but digging it anyway


----------



## andrewd01

Whazzzup said:


> Digging the new roon, nice interface. It may have improved SQ although not sure. just seems more detail and more mellow, less sharp edges, but it could be placebo but digging it anyway



What’s the procedure for updating?  Do you just update the control app or do you have to do something on the server?


----------



## Whazzzup (Feb 9, 2021)

The app updates itself and the database on DX.this was a big update but Takes just a minute.


----------



## Progisus

For me there is an increase in Tidal and Qobuz speed. It does seem a bit more mellow as @Whazzzup says. I’ve actually turned off HQPlayer.


----------



## cczero17

Progisus said:


> For me there is an increase in Tidal and Qobuz speed. It does seem a bit more mellow as @Whazzzup says. I’ve actually turned off HQPlayer.


Interesting that you are not using HQplayer now


----------



## Progisus

cczero17 said:


> Interesting that you are not using HQplayer now


It is probably something to do with mood, covid, -30C, lockdown etc etc but.... I am feeling as if the sound has slowly degraded with the different features Jussi has added. I recently went through a long session trying many different filters to no avail. I have both desktop and embedded licenses and when desktop started to sound better I began thinking something is wrong here. The sound was beginning to be lifeless. I tried dsd for awhile but Chord dacs just decimate it to pcm anyway. HQPlayer is a great product and I would still prefer it to the mscaler (sold) which had rfi issues imho.

I use roon. Switching to roon raat and native resolution brought the life back. The new 1.8 build of roon is also sounding more relaxed to me, which I like.

Next week who knows. I would appreciate others opinions.


----------



## cczero17

Progisus said:


> It is probably something to do with mood, covid, -30C, lockdown etc etc but.... I am feeling as if the sound has slowly degraded with the different features Jussi has added. I recently went through a long session trying many different filters to no avail. I have both desktop and embedded licenses and when desktop started to sound better I began thinking something is wrong here. The sound was beginning to be lifeless. I tried dsd for awhile but Chord dacs just decimate it to pcm anyway. HQPlayer is a great product and I would still prefer it to the mscaler (sold) which had rfi issues imho.
> 
> I use roon. Switching to roon raat and native resolution brought the life back. The new 1.8 build of roon is also sounding more relaxed to me, which I like.
> 
> Next week who knows. I would appreciate others opinions.


I see. I havent had an update for a while, which is probably a good thing then

I'm still liking Sinc L even though there are elements of it that aren't too favourable ( non apodizing, lower transients etc).

I'll stop looking for updates for the time being then 😁


----------



## Whazzzup

Another roon update after the update. I think the SQ opened up again. But who knows really, love my antipodes anyway


----------



## Clive101

How is the Roon upgrade with Antipodes thinking of staying with the 1.7 as over on the Roon forum there seems to be issues with the UI ?
The sound seems to have improved with some users others disagree.
Roon Ready seems to be better now than Squeeze.
Just wondered how many have tried various different settings ?


----------



## Whazzzup

As far as DX goes, I never ever understood any of the issues conveyed on roon community forums involving roon. Course I think most don’t use antipodes and theses are the countless computer users, home raseberry pie nuc builders etc... I read horror stories from sq, database mgt, cut outs, etc. Meanwhile for me it’s always run seamless and perfectly. I don’t stream, never used anything but roon. Course on the new roon there’s free radio channels now, they work fine but sq is not nearly as good as the hard drive storage route. 
I have tried multiple dsp settings and found what works for me and my chord dac best


----------



## Triode User

I tried Roon again last night on my K50 now that 1.8 has been launched. It is quite a pleasant sound but not the best that I can get out of the k50. For that I currently use HQP and NAA (no Roon) and with all upsampling and filtering turned off on HQP.


----------



## Progisus

Triode User said:


> I tried Roon again last night on my K50 now that 1.8 has been launched. It is quite a pleasant sound but not the best that I can get out of the k50. For that I currently use HQP and NAA (no Roon) and with all upsampling and filtering turned off on HQP.


So you are then using the hqp engine instead of roon’s engine. 🤔 I’ll have to give that a try.


----------



## Triode User

Progisus said:


> So you are then using the hqp engine instead of roon’s engine. 🤔 I’ll have to give that a try.



Yes, using HQPD for file selection and HQP on the server and NAA on the player (all filters and noise shaping set to none on HQP). Many are saying they find that a good playback combination on the Antipodes. I use it to connect to my Mscaler by USB. Its worth a try.


----------



## Progisus

Triode User said:


> Yes, using HQPD for file selection and HQP on the server and NAA on the player (all filters and noise shaping set to none on HQP). Many are saying they find that a good playback combination on the Antipodes. I use it to connect to my Mscaler by USB. Its worth a try.


Do you set the vol to 0db instead of -3db for this use case?


----------



## Progisus

I’m liking Roon’s new engine at present.


----------



## Progisus

@Kapiti 

Running 2.8 on my EX which I use as a renderer only and usually with hqplayer embedded. When I was doing my weekly update run it upgraded my hqplayer to 4.22.0. Now I cannot access the hqplayer configuration screen. Several reboots and uninstall, install cycles to no avail.  Luckily naa still runs so I can stream from another desktop hqplayer.

Maybe I’ve found the 2.8 issues. 

Is anyone here upgraded to 4.22.0 with no issues?


----------



## Triode User

Progisus said:


> @Kapiti
> 
> Running 2.8 on my EX which I use as a renderer only and usually with hqplayer embedded. When I was doing my weekly update run it upgraded my hqplayer to 4.22.0. Now I cannot access the hqplayer configuration screen. Several reboots and uninstall, install cycles to no avail.  Luckily naa still runs so I can stream from another desktop hqplayer.
> 
> ...



Sorry I can't help because my K50 is still on 4.18.1!  I assume you successfully rescanned the HQP library and then deleted the HQPD library and asked it to recan?


----------



## td19

Progisus said:


> @Kapiti
> 
> Running 2.8 on my EX which I use as a renderer only and usually with hqplayer embedded. When I was doing my weekly update run it upgraded my hqplayer to 4.22.0. Now I cannot access the hqplayer configuration screen. Several reboots and uninstall, install cycles to no avail.  Luckily naa still runs so I can stream from another desktop hqplayer.
> 
> ...


Yes,  non-licensed HQP Embedded though.


----------



## Progisus

td19 said:


> Yes,  non-licensed HQP Embedded though.


Thanks, there is hope then. I have a support request in but with the NZ lockdowns it may take a bit.


----------



## Triode User

Progisus said:


> Thanks, there is hope then. I have a support request in but with the NZ lockdowns it may take a bit.


I asked Mark Cole why I couldn't get HQP 4.22.0 Embedded for my K50 as it was available for the EX and he replied that this was because those people "_are running a beta software on their CX/EX, It does not contain any Antipodes sound quality enhancements. And cannot be used with software we are developing for the future._"

I don't think you are running beta software on your EX, are you?

PS he replied overnight here in the UK.


----------



## Progisus

Latest update bumped hqplayer to 4.22.1. I was hopeful this would solve my configuration issues but unfortunately not. When I press the hqplayer config button I still get the unable to connect to the server screen.

What is disturbing is that I have reached out to support 3 times with no response at all. In the past they responded in a couple hours max.

I’ve checked over at the sonicorbiter site but there is no mention of this issue.

@Kapiti can you help?


----------



## Progisus

Good news... Tony came out of retirement to help with my hqplayer problem. After a couple team viewer sessions he had enough info to send to Jussi at hqplayer. It appears that version 4.22.0 required a cpu instruction not available in the EX. Jussi made a change to 4.22.2. Tony had it uploaded to the servers. I downloaded and installed. Back in business. Thanks Antipodes!


----------



## richardloh

Wow .. great news !

Aside to Tony,
----------------------
Welcome back and phew !


----------



## Bling23

John Carrigan said:


> Anyone thought about getting a K40.
> 
> I've a standalone CX playing to my Devialet 1000Pro via ethernet cable, so thinking if I upgrade then K40 would be the best choice.
> 
> Any comments appreciated


Hi John
I’m looking at the K30 but a bit unsure as to the difference between it an K40 , any ideas on what seperate them apart. I have a Weiss 501 DAC connected to the network with lan cable and use it as roon end point. I have my core currently on a NUC so I’m looking to improve things here. Any help tips appreciated not overly familiar with Antipodes.
Thanks
Sean


----------



## andrewd01

The K50 and K30 have two computers inside. One high powered computer for the music server (eg Roon core), and another lower powered computer for the renderer (aka player). In your case you are using the Weiss Dac as a network renderer so the second computer inside a K50 or K30 is redundant.  The K40 has the same case and high powered computer as the K50 and can be upgraded to a K50 if you choose by adding the second low powered computer.  It is all described on the antipodes web site.


----------



## td19

It is possible to use HQPlayer as a renderer with Squeezebox Server on Antipodes servers, in a similar way to the way it can be used with Roon. It uses the UPnP Bridge plugin for Squeezebox. I have attached a document that describes how to set it up.


----------



## Progisus

td19 said:


> It is possible to use HQPlayer as a renderer with Squeezebox Server on Antipodes servers, in a similar way to the way it can be used with Roon. It uses the UPnP Bridge plugin for Squeezebox. I have attached a document that describes how to set it up.


HQPlayer on Antipodes also works as a upnp renderer with Audirvana.


----------



## kennyb123

I’ve owned an Antipodes K30 for a little over a month but just learned of this thread so I thought I’d drop in and say hi.  I’ve chatted with a few of you previously and likely need to credit a few of you for planting the seeds that got me to make the move.  I remember when @Progisus first mentioned using HQPlayer in place of the M-Scaler.  I thought he was out his mind but fast forward to the present and the K30 replaced both my Zenith Mk3 and my M-Scaler and I couldn’t be happier.  The sound quality is stunning and the software implementation is rock solid.  I’m running a mix of Roon/HQPlayer and HQPlayer straight up. 

This weekend I think I’ll read through some of the past posts to try to get caught up.

Oh and I was kidding about thinking @Progisus was out of his mind.  He did surprise me though as he was one of the first to speak positively about HQPlayer as an alternative to the M-Scaler.  I’m glad I kept an open mind.  It’s my impression though l that the M-Scaler does a better job.  But without being able to sell it, I wouldn’t have been able to afford the K30. 

Ken


----------



## Progisus

kennyb123 said:


> I’ve owned an Antipodes K30 for a little over a month but just learned of this thread so I thought I’d drop in and say hi.  I’ve chatted with a few of you previously and likely need to credit a few of you for planting the seeds that got me to make the move.  I remember when @Progisus first mentioned using HQPlayer in place of the M-Scaler.  I thought he was out his mind but fast forward to the present and the K30 replaced both my Zenith Mk3 and my M-Scaler and I couldn’t be happier.  The sound quality is stunning and the software implementation is rock solid.  I’m running a mix of Roon/HQPlayer and HQPlayer straight up.
> 
> This weekend I think I’ll read through some of the past posts to try to get caught up.
> 
> ...


It was you who contributed to my getting the TT2. I may be still out of mind as I use both the TT and TT2 daily. lol. Welcome to the Antipodes thread.


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> It was you who contributed to my getting the TT2. I may be still out of mind as I use both the TT and TT2 daily. lol. Welcome to the Antipodes thread.


Funny how that worked out!  I think we’re both out of our minds - but I think we’re in good company.


----------



## OceanRanger

I will be upgrading from my MacBook as a source soon. I've been on the fence between Innuos and Antipodes, but am now leaning heavily toward Antipodes. I see one of the K units happening in the future. It looks like folks are generally pleased with their K30s and K50s?


----------



## kennyb123

OceanRanger said:


> I will be upgrading from my MacBook as a source soon. I've been on the fence between Innuos and Antipodes, but am now leaning heavily toward Antipodes. I see one of the K units happening in the future. It looks like folks are generally pleased with their K30s and K50s?



Love my K30.  You will be blown away by the magnitude of improvement over your MacBook.  An Innuos server would likely impress you as well.  I owned both a Zenith Mk2 and Mk3.  I think Antipodes’ approach is superior though in both hardware and software.  Player and Server running on different boards seems to reduce the harm the server software can do.  

I have to admit I am not a fan of Innuos, the company.  They had made many mentions of releasing a new version of their innuOS operating system.  It was supposed to include a new music player application.  The communication around this has been pathetic.  They seem to have a hard time finishing software due to their desire to ship new hardware.  They released a “Roon Experimental“ mode several years ago and it’s still in the experimental state.  Antipodes has the equivalent of what Innuos calls “experimental” by allowing you to set Squeeze as the Player and Roon as the Server.  It’s a finished feature, which they actually recommended using.


----------



## OceanRanger

kennyb123 said:


> Love my K30.  You will be blown away by the magnitude of improvement over your MacBook.  An Innuos server would likely impress you as well.  I owned both a Zenith Mk2 and Mk3.  I think Antipodes’ approach is superior though in both hardware and software.  Player and Server running on different boards seems to reduce the harm the server software can do.
> 
> I have to admit I am not a fan of Innuos, the company.  They had made many mentions of releasing a new version of their innuOS operating system.  It was supposed to include a new music player application.  The communication around this has been pathetic.  They seem to have a hard time finishing software due to their desire to ship new hardware.  They released a “Roon Experimental“ mode several years ago and it’s still in the experimental state.  Antipodes has the equivalent of what Innuos calls “experimental” by allowing you to set Squeeze as the Player and Roon as the Server.  It’s a finished feature, which they actually recommended using.


@kennyb123 thanks very much for your thoughtful response. It is interesting to hear about your having had two versions of the Zenith and moving to Antipodes. I do agree that I like Antipodes approach to noise reduction at the source as well as the separation of the server/player. Innuos' 2.0 software is currently planned to release in May, but I really to like Roon's UX.


----------



## kennyb123

OceanRanger said:


> Innuos' 2.0 software is currently planned to release in May, but I really to like Roon's UX.


I wanted to stick with Roon as well and had no idea what Innuos’ ongoing commitment to it would be.  Roon’s sound quality degraded on the Zenith to the point that I switched over to iPeng/Squeeze.  Wanting to get back to running Roon was the main reason I jumped to the K30.  I’m back to running Roon (with HQPlayer) and loving it.


----------



## Whazzzup

Roon core operation and Linux software is partly why I chose antipodes.  For example I wasn’t going to rely on aurelic or another manufacturers operating system.  antipodes probably has the best hardware but op system or being a preferred roon partner is key


----------



## OceanRanger

True. I have a two channel system that is a Roon Ready Endpoint. I also have a headphone system that doesn't have a player. I like the flexibility that Antipodes offers across these two configurations. I have also been super impressed with the email exchanges that I have had with Antipodes.


----------



## John Carrigan (Mar 6, 2021)

kennyb123 said:


> I wanted to stick with Roon as well and had no idea what Innuos’ ongoing commitment to it would be.  Roon’s sound quality degraded on the Zenith to the point that I switched over to iPeng/Squeeze.  Wanting to get back to running Roon was the main reason I jumped to the K30.  I’m back to running Roon (with HQPlayer) and loving it.


Kenny

Do you use HQPlayer with all it's bells and whistles in action, or just use Roon Core and HQPlayer as the player in 'vanilla flavour'? (asking as I've just got a K40 and could use the HQPlayer option or just stick with full Roon as Server/Player)


----------



## kennyb123

OceanRanger said:


> I have also been super impressed with the email exchanges that I have had with Antipodes.


+1


----------



## kennyb123

John Carrigan said:


> Kenny
> 
> Do you use HQPlayer with all it's bells and whistles in action, or just use Roon Core and HQPlayer as the player in 'vanilla flavour'? (asking as I've just got a K40 and could use the HQPlayer option or just stick with full Roon as Server/Player)


I do PCM upscaling with HQPlayer.  My Chord TT2 is made better with Chord’s M-Scaler, but HQPlayer’s sinc filters give a nice dose of this for less money.  

The K40 would need a downstream device operating as an NAA for you to use Roon with HQPlayer integration. Does Devialet support that?


----------



## kennyb123

Whazzzup said:


> Roon core operation and Linux software is partly why I chose antipodes.  For example I wasn’t going to rely on aurelic or another manufacturers operating system.  antipodes probably has the best hardware but op system or being a preferred roon partner is key


I agree totally.  I owned the original Auralic Aries and their Lightning DS solution was definitely ahead of all the UPnP apps that were out there.  But then Room came along and I had to jump on.

Taiko is in the process of rolling out their own music player but it’s more than a pretty face.  It aims to improve sound quality foremost.  It does that by having super tight integration with their hardware so the software can ramp down operations during playback to improve sound quality.  Those using the beta have been blown away by how much better it sounds than Roon.  I would love to see Antipodes do something similar but just as another available option.


----------



## John Carrigan (Mar 6, 2021)

kennyb123 said:


> I do PCM upscaling with HQPlayer.  My Chord TT2 is made better with Chord’s M-Scaler, but HQPlayer’s sinc filters give a nice dose of this for less money.
> 
> The K40 would need a downstream device operating as an NAA for you to use Roon with HQPlayer integration. Does Devialet support that?


I was under the impression HQPlayer NAA ran native on the Antipodes (I might be mistaken)


----------



## kennyb123

John Carrigan said:


> I was under the impression HQPlayer NNA ran native on the Antipodes (I might be mistaken)


You would need a K30 or K50 as these can run both Server and Player apps.  NAA is the player app, while HQPlayer is the server.  Roon uses a similar two-tier architecture.  Roon Core checks the network to see if there are any Roon Ready devices.  HQPlayer does something similar by looking for NAAs.  Hope that makes sense.


----------



## td19 (Mar 7, 2021)

John Carrigan said:


> I was under the impression HQPlayer NAA ran native on the Antipodes (I might be mistaken)


You cannot connect a DAC to the K40. HQP NAA needs a DAC connection, as does HQP ALSA.


----------



## Progisus

Having a small library I run roon server, hqplayer server and roon ready on my EX. Roon ready plays to usb and direct to my TT2. Attached to network 2 is a pi4 running Audiolinux in ram with an hqplayer naa. The pi 4 is connected through an SRC-DX and dual bnc to the TT2.

This allows me to play the same piece direct to usb and hqplayer upsampled at the same time. It has been quite beneficial in comparing the effect of different filters to redbook in real time. It requires a a quick adjustment of volume when switching sources as hqplayer is 3db quieter. One hand on the remote and one on the volume ball.

To my ears roon 1.8 has brought an uptick in sound quality. Roon mentioned they had optimized the audio software path.


----------



## Triode User

kennyb123 said:


> Taiko is in the process of rolling out their own music player but it’s more than a pretty face. It aims to improve sound quality foremost. It does that by having super tight integration with their hardware so the software can ramp down operations during playback to improve sound quality. Those using the beta have been blown away by how much better it sounds than Roon. I would love to see Antipodes do something similar but just as another available option.


To be fair, Roon sound quality is not a very high bar to beat!


----------



## andrewd01

OceanRanger said:


> I will be upgrading from my MacBook as a source soon. I've been on the fence between Innuos and Antipodes, but am now leaning heavily toward Antipodes. I see one of the K units happening in the future. It looks like folks are generally pleased with their K30s and K50s?


I had an Innuos Zen III before I changed to Antipodes.  The Innuos sounded excellent on more laid back genres of music, eg Jazz, folk acoustic etc.  The Antipodes by comparison is clearly better at transients, which makes the music sound more realistic, and it therefore excels at all genres.


----------



## Triode User

OceanRanger said:


> I will be upgrading from my MacBook as a source soon. I've been on the fence between Innuos and Antipodes, but am now leaning heavily toward Antipodes. I see one of the K units happening in the future. It looks like folks are generally pleased with their K30s and K50s?



I have been very pleased with my K50. You will not be disappointed if you buy either.


----------



## Triode User

Has anyone heard if Antipodes are working on anything similar to the soon to be released Innuos 2.0 app (which looks great)? 

It would be nice to have something that has a better interface than the current third party ones available for the Antipodes (I am discounting Roon having given up on it).


----------



## kennyb123

Triode User said:


> It would be nice to have something that has a better interface than the current third party ones available for the Antipodes (I am discounting Roon having given up on it).


I gave up on Roon with my Innuos Zenith but am back to enjoying Roon on my K30.  I’m not sure why Roon sounds better to me on Antipodes.  HQPlayer could be part of it.  Likewise the two-tier model of two separate boards.  Or maybe 1.8 improved the sound.  I just hope I continue to feel this way as I love Roon.


----------



## Triode User

kennyb123 said:


> I gave up on Roon with my Innuos Zenith but am back to enjoying Roon on my K30.  I’m not sure why Roon sounds better to me on Antipodes.  HQPlayer could be part of it.  Likewise the two-tier model of two separate boards.  Or maybe 1.8 improved the sound.  I just hope I continue to feel this way as I love Roon.



i thought I was also perhaps happy with Roon + HQP on the k50. This was using HQP + NAA but with no up sampling, in other words just using the player function of HQP + NAA. But then i swopped to HQPD for file selection instead of Roon 1.8 and realised I was fooling myself into thinking Roon was listenable to. Even worse was using Roon on the k50 server and Roon on the k50 player.


----------



## kennyb123

Triode User said:


> i thought I was also perhaps happy with Roon + HQP on the k50. This was using HQP + NAA but with no up sampling, in other words just using the player function of HQP + NAA. But then i swopped to HQPD for file selection instead of Roon 1.8 and realised I was fooling myself into thinking Roon was listenable to. Even worse was using Roon on the k50 server and Roon on the k50 player.



I think I only enabled Roon player the first hour or so of having my K30.  I guess I'm still fooling myself with Roon/HQP - but as long as I'm enjoying the music that's ok.


----------



## cczero17

Lol...All this talk sounds way too confusing. I'm still going to stick with CX/EX runnig HQplayer....and update these with the new tech once available 😁


----------



## naynay (Mar 13, 2021)

Selling my Antipodes CX.
Immaculate condition.
Colour is black.
I have photos that show it from all sides so you can see it is in top condition.
I may sell the EX as well which will give you the Antipodes solution.
Thought I would mention on here first before it goes on for sale sites.
PM me for details only if interested in purchasing please.
Thank you.


----------



## Progisus

naynay said:


> Selling my Antipodes CX.
> Immaculate condition.
> Colour is black.
> Thought I would mention on here first before it goes on for sale sites.
> ...


Are still keeping the EX?


----------



## naynay

Progisus said:


> Are still keeping the EX?


Yes for now.


----------



## naynay

My Antipodes CX is now listed for anyone interested.

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/antipodes-cx-highend-audiophile-music-server.688/


----------



## Uncle Monty (Mar 19, 2021)

https://audiobacon.net/2021/03/17/h...ItD42Q2hIHsdBUbHIgp5nTGeLawPOSkALLhae7P8UCoNg

HQPlayer - better than M-Scaler?

https://audiobacon.net/2021/03/17/h...ItD42Q2hIHsdBUbHIgp5nTGeLawPOSkALLhae7P8UCoNg


----------



## naynay

Price reduced

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/antipodes-cx-highend-audiophile-music-server.688/


----------



## cczero17

naynay said:


> Price reduced
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/antipodes-cx-highend-audiophile-music-server.688/


Not interested Prognosis? Were you not thinking of adding a CX at some point?


----------



## Progisus

cczero17 said:


> Not interested Prognosis? Were you not thinking of adding a CX at some point?


HaHa! I’m running my core at present on a NUC w Rock with the EX as a renderer only. I dont need the extra power as I do not do dsd upsampling.


----------



## naynay

Forgot to mention this Antipodes CX comes with 2 years warranty still remaining so have updated to the details.

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/antipodes-cx-highend-audiophile-music-server.688/


----------



## Whazzzup

Ok just the DX guy here that has a iTunes library that I use to download new tunes which I subsequently used to copy paste to a flac alias folder for my DX hardrive. Everything was fine till I upgraded the iOS to big sur. Lost the flac alias folder connection to my DX. With the help of igor at hifi center, team viewed to set up that flac folder again, which he did. But still having problems converting the iTunes m4a to the m4a that roon can read. There’s also some stability issues between roon and the iMac, but that’s just weird. 
does anyone use and convert I tunes library and how do you do it on a iMac?


----------



## Whazzzup

It may be time to use tidal I suppose.


----------



## Triode User

Noooooo! Go with Qobuz . . . . .


----------



## Progisus

No love from Qobuz in Canada. VPN backdoor is possible I understand. 😉


----------



## Triode User

Opps, sorry. Raw nerve. Many apologies.


----------



## Whazzzup

Digging a bit for the curious. yes the last iOS upgrade to big sur changed iTunes to music. iTunes would have to be exported as an xml file to the root music file in roon. Of course no one is referencing the new big sur functionality which also has changed from previous IOS. So for some reason roon on my DX doesn't like to have exported XML attempts and the operation will freeze. 
So ill give it time to see if roon partners care to solve folks problems who use iTunes on an iMac and transfer these tunes to their antipodes data bases. It seems that we may be antiquated group, but i have found others attempting to do the same thing, whether its antipodes or other music servers, who have had problems. also if enough hang ups are reported back to apple..... Any rate not freaking at all, got 210 Gigs worth of tunes transferred before the ending of iTunes.


----------



## naynay

Hi,

HQPlayer users how to you change from PCM to DSD when upsampling as when I click on the mode source in the main window and select DSD it does nothing.


----------



## andrewd01

Chord Dacs convert DSD back to PCM so I have never used DSD.


----------



## bobmysterious

Hey y'all, have a quick question.  So right now I have an Edge (vintage, I know...) and I'm planning on upgrading.  I have a small library, not even a full TB.  I listen to PCM (192) and don't mess with any processing or DSD, nothing too horsepower oriented.  So my question revolves around the ethernet switching (direct stream) on the CX and S40.  I like the idea of having one network connection to the server and then running straight out into my Lumin U1.  The S40 and power supply are a bit of an investment.  S30 and power supply less so.  So I guess my question is... is it worth it to go with the S40 (or CX)  in order to use the direct stream ethernet?  Would there be a noticeable benefit as opposed to having each running to my switch as they are right now?  Hope that all makes sense.  If there wouldn't be much of a benefit I could just use a S30 and power supply and save some money.  Or a CX and save even more.  Thoughts?


----------



## andrewd01

I would not use an S30 for a server.  It is not designed for this purpose.  The CX is a much cleaner installation than S40+S60 and less than half the price if you buy used. 

The CX made a large improvement to my EX but not comparable to your situation because you are already using a two box solution.  The only way to find out is to try.  A used CX would be very low risk because you could sell it on for what you paid if you decided it doesn’t improve the sound.


----------



## naynay

andrewd01 said:


> Chord Dacs convert DSD back to PCM so I have never used DSD.


I was trying it on a different Dac which is not a Chord.

I have now sorted this thanks.


----------



## Whazzzup

Question, any canada perspective due to geographic licensing , but for anyone. If you download music onto your hard drives , what service for high res do you use? Looks like apple music lossless is no longer compatible with roon. I don't buy cd,s but i do love antipodes ripper so there is that, but who wants a physical disk? you can go to settings, library, skipped files and see that the stream is no longer compatible


----------



## Progisus (Apr 29, 2021)

Whazzzup said:


> Question, any canada perspective due to geographic licensing , but for anyone. If you download music onto your hard drives , what service for high res do you use? Looks like apple music lossless is no longer compatible with roon. I don't buy cd,s but i do love antipodes ripper so there is that, but who wants a physical disk? you can go to settings, library, skipped files and see that the stream is no longer compatible


I get cd or better downloads from pro studio masters, 7digital.ca, bandcamp. With vpn and paypal I use all the other stores. I use dbpoweramp to convert aiff files to lossless flac.


----------



## kennyb123

Whazzzup said:


> Question, any canada perspective due to geographic licensing , but for anyone. If you download music onto your hard drives , what service for high res do you use? Looks like apple music lossless is no longer compatible with roon. I don't buy cd,s but i do love antipodes ripper so there is that, but who wants a physical disk? you can go to settings, library, skipped files and see that the stream is no longer compatible


ProStudioMasters is in Canada so they are a great option for Canadian purchasers.  I’ve purchased a few items from them by HDTracks has been my main source.  Lately I’ve started purchasing from the Qobuz download store as well as the version they sell matches what they stream (though not everything they stream is available for download).

I’m surprised to hear that Apple Lossless is no longer compatible with Roon.  Are you sure about that?


----------



## Progisus

kennyb123 said:


> ProStudioMasters is in Canada so they are a great option for Canadian purchasers.  I’ve purchased a few items from them by HDTracks has been my main source.  Lately I’ve started purchasing from the Qobuz download store as well as the version they sell matches what they stream (though not everything they stream is available for download).
> 
> I’m surprised to hear that Apple Lossless is no longer compatible with Roon.  Are you sure about that?


Hey Kenny... Have you dropped the mscaler from your chain? I don’t see in your sig.


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> Hey Kenny... Have you dropped the mscaler from your chain? I don’t see in your sig.


Yup...it's listed for sale on Audiophile Style's classified section.  I use HQPlayer for scaling anything that's not been processed with PGGB.  PGGB is described here and it's really something special.


----------



## Triode User

kennyb123 said:


> Yup...it's listed for sale on Audiophile Style's classified section.  I use HQPlayer for scaling anything that's not been processed with PGGB.  PGGB is described here and it's really something special.


I am also playing with PGGB but unlike Kenny I do not rate HQP for scaling and so my main listening is still with the Mscaler.


----------



## Whazzzup

kennyb123 said:


> ProStudioMasters is in Canada so they are a great option for Canadian purchasers.  I’ve purchased a few items from them by HDTracks has been my main source.  Lately I’ve started purchasing from the Qobuz download store as well as the version they sell matches what they stream (though not everything they stream is available for download).
> 
> I’m surprised to hear that Apple Lossless is no longer compatible with Roon.  Are you sure about that?


I’m not sure about what happens after big sur iOS update but my apple Music according to roon settings skipped files is no longer compatible, roon support helped to identify, antipodes also drilled down to compatibility and trying to adjust permissions, the only avenue I haven’t tried, is appple support. But looking for alternate sources. If anyone here uses Apple I tunes downloads and could help…… sure but I may move on?


----------



## Progisus

kennyb123 said:


> Yup...it's listed for sale on Audiophile Style's classified section.  I use HQPlayer for scaling anything that's not been processed with PGGB.  PGGB is described here and it's really something special.


I am definitely going to give this a try. Right now I am enjoying HQPlayer Desktop to DSD256, ext2, 7ec. For no upsampling I use the EX with HQPlayer Embedded pcm, none,none,none to bypass the roon engine. This is where I will play the PGGB files.


----------



## Whazzzup

pro studio works great thx, about 4 bucks per album more than iTunes but the sound is better. on the negative can't play on my apple TV now these new downloads, but roon is on my network so my portable hugo is fine and of course my desktop. Oh ya my wife apple iPhone won't get these tunes but she won't mind. she has 120 gigs


----------



## Progisus

kennyb123 said:


> Yup...it's listed for sale on Audiophile Style's classified section.  I use HQPlayer for scaling anything that's not been processed with PGGB.  PGGB is described here and it's really something special.


My first PGGB conversion went well and the sound is definitely a step up from my HQPlayer scaling. I will need to try a few more conversions before I would get a license.


----------



## andrewd01

PGGB looks interesting.  Looks like you need quite a high end computer to run it.
It is probably not for me since I mostly listen to Tidal now.  I suppose in a few short years the computing power will be sufficient to do the same standard of processing on the fly.


----------



## Progisus

andrewd01 said:


> PGGB looks interesting.  Looks like you need quite a high end computer to run it.
> It is probably not for me since I mostly listen to Tidal now.  I suppose in a few short years the computing power will be sufficient to do the same standard of processing on the fly.


It’s seems memory is the important thing. I have only 16gb on a 2018 MacbookPro. I tried to convert a 22 min prog masterpiece (Close To The Edge) and it quit at 12:40. That 12:40 was pretty impressive. As I mostly stream these days I will be sticking to HQPlayer. With my setup I am able to do quick A/B compares and sinc-L, lns15 was very very close, lacking in a bit of body and air around the vocals.


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> It’s seems memory is the important thing. I have only 16gb on a 2018 MacbookPro. I tried to convert a 22 min prog masterpiece (Close To The Edge) and it quit at 12:40. That 12:40 was pretty impressive. As I mostly stream these days I will be sticking to HQPlayer. With my setup I am able to do quick A/B compares and sinc-L, lns15 was very very close, lacking in a bit of body and air around the vocals.



Yeah memory is needed for sure.  You can try to reduce the max taps setting to if it'll get through that entire song.  Not sure what the default is when you have only 16 GB.

I just checked the number of taps it chose for the two versions of Close to Edge that I processed.  It was 821 million taps for the Steve Wilson remix.  The DSD version on the AudioFidelity SACD came in at 2048 million taps (wow!).  DSD processing takes a very long time and requires a lot of memory, but the processed files are much improved.


----------



## Triode User

.


Progisus said:


> It’s seems memory is the important thing. I have only 16gb on a 2018 MacbookPro. I tried to convert a 22 min prog masterpiece (Close To The Edge) and it quit at 12:40. That 12:40 was pretty impressive. As I mostly stream these days I will be sticking to HQPlayer. With my setup I am able to do quick A/B compares and sinc-L, lns15 was very very close, lacking in a bit of body and air around the vocals.


It might have been heat. I had that issue at first with an iMac and used a third party free utility to manually set the cooling fans to max and then it was happy to do long tracks. The automatic heat sensing for the fans did not react fast enough and that was why PGGB was falling over.


----------



## Progisus

Triode User said:


> .
> 
> It might have been heat. I had that issue at first with an iMac and used a third party free utility to manually set the cooling fans to max and then it was happy to do long tracks. The automatic heat sensing for the fans did not react fast enough and that was why PGGB was falling over.


The first try was the whole album of 3 tracks. It also quit at 12:40 and went on to the next track finishing the album. Interesting...


----------



## Triode User

Progisus said:


> The first try was the whole album of 3 tracks. It also quit at 12:40 and went on to the next track finishing the album. Interesting...


 For long tracks that would exceed the 3GB limit for WAV files iPGGB splits the track into segments, each less than the 3GB limit. I wonder if it is anything to do with that. I will also have a go processing and see where the split is made.

if interested you could contact the developer and perhaps send him the log file.


----------



## frankensmurf

Apologies in advance for the long post, it's a complicated problem with my Antipodes CX; I haven't gotten great answers from Antipodes on this issue so I'm asking here. 

ISSUE:
I am having terrible problems getting my CX back onto the network, EVERY time I have to power it down. As such I encounter the issue infrequently, but every time it happens the CX is so resistant to joining the network that I am close to throwing it out a window.  

Is anyone else having this problem? 

DETAILS:
cable co modem > home office wifi router > in-wall CAT7 > EtherRegen (with LPS1.5) > WireWorld ethernet cable > CX network 1; CX network 2 > Audioquest ethernet cable > EX network 1 > Audioquest USB > Antipodes P2 > PS Audio HDMI > MM Tambaqui. 

CX is connected to a PS Audio P5 power regenerator via an old Van den Hul MainsStream power cable; EX is connected to the P5 via a PS Audio AC12.

Generally the problem is: when I reconnect power and ethernet to the CX, and flip the back switch to on, wait for the front light to go orange, and press the front switch, it flashes green, then turns solid green: at that point the CX is not connected to the network. I've tried it with CX network 1 connected to the EtherRegen 'A' side (gigabit) and 'B' side (10/100), and straight into my wall jack (direct to router), and with the EX ethernet cable connected to the CX or not. In every case I confirm orange and green link lights on both ends, in every case I confirm connectivity of other devices on the EtherRegen. I try booting, rebooting, disconnecting everything and rebooting, rebooting the EtherRegen, rebooting my stupid router; it just doesn't work, until it does, and I haven't been able to isolate the extraordinary special conditions that make it finally join the network. Once it joins the network everything is normal.

But perhaps all of the above is just a symptom: I feel like my CX simply does not power on quite correctly. On many occasions when i click the green light to power it down, it blinks green forever and won't shut down. Sometimes it remains blinking green when operating normally -- i.e. Roon is working but the light is flashing green. Earlier today I got a flash of network connectivity when I clicked the green button, it started flashing green for about 20 seconds *during whcih time it showed up on the network*, then went to orange and disconnected again. After today's 2-hr troubleshooting session, I finally have the expletive thing working, but it is Orange. Seriously. My CX is solid orange, I'm listening to high-res Qobuz via Roon, and my EX, which always works exactly as expected, is sounding great and solid green. It is a weird sight. SEE ATTACHED.

I'm listening again, and it goes without saying that given the trauma I endure every time I will not be unplugging this thing again any time soon, but it shouldn't [not] work this way. Any help much appreciated.


----------



## Clive101

frankensmurf said:


> Apologies in advance for the long post, it's a complicated problem with my Antipodes CX; I haven't gotten great answers from Antipodes on this issue so I'm asking here.
> 
> ISSUE:
> I am having terrible problems getting my CX back onto the network, EVERY time I have to power it down. As such I encounter the issue infrequently, but every time it happens the CX is so resistant to joining the network that I am close to throwing it out a window.
> ...


Suggest you return  to CX for repair clearly it is defective.
Two year warranty, three on registration hope you still are within time?
There is sequence of switching on the CX EX combo perhaps it is this?
CX  on first for one minute then the EX, reversed when switching off.
Had a similar problem on a K30 on demo.
Let us know how you get on.


----------



## andrewd01

I leave my CX on 24/7 and have never had any problems.  On the rare occasions I restart it I get the flashing green light for half a minute then solid green, after which I can find it on the network no problems.  Your Cx sounds like it needs a service.  

One test you could try is taking the CX out of the chain and running the network straight into EX.  If this is 100% reliable, then that proves something is amiss with the CX.
The nice thing about a dual box solution is that you will still have a working music server while the CX is getting repaired!


----------



## Progisus

kennyb123 said:


> Yeah memory is needed for sure.  You can try to reduce the max taps setting to if it'll get through that entire song.  Not sure what the default is when you have only 16 GB.
> 
> I just checked the number of taps it chose for the two versions of Close to Edge that I processed.  It was 821 million taps for the Steve Wilson remix.  The DSD version on the AudioFidelity SACD came in at 2048 million taps (wow!).  DSD processing takes a very long time and requires a lot of memory, but the processed files are much improved.


I was not getting much gain in sound quality over HQPlayer sinc-L until I tried MPD on the EX. I put the PGGB on the ssd in the EX and used Rigelian to control the playback. This routes the file directly to the MPD from the ssd. This was the lightbulb moment. I have ordered extra ram for our 10 core iMac and will probably go all in on a license as PGGB now runs natively on MAC Intel. I see from the AS forum the software is in a state of constant change with features being added daily. I think  I will give it a bit before starting the ripping process.


----------



## cczero17

Progisus said:


> I was not getting much gain in sound quality over HQPlayer sinc-L until I tried MPD on the EX. I put the PGGB on the ssd in the EX and used Rigelian to control the playback. This routes the file directly to the MPD from the ssd. This was the lightbulb moment. I have ordered extra ram for our 10 core iMac and will probably go all in on a license as PGGB now runs natively on MAC Intel. I see from the AS forum the software is in a state of constant change with features being added daily. I think  I will give it a bit before starting the ripping process.


Now this is getting confusing lol. MPD and PGGB!?? Using a CX/EX Solution with HQplayer and SSD in the CX.....how/what/where does MPD and PGGB come into play and can it be added/used with what I have?


----------



## Whazzzup

Kenny posted this, it’s beyound myself as a simple DX roon user but ray dude sure is serious about this stuff so….


Yup...it's listed for sale on Audiophile Style's classified section. I use HQPlayer for scaling anything that's not been processed with PGGB. PGGB is described here and it's really something special.


----------



## Triode User (May 5, 2021)

cczero17 said:


> Now this is getting confusing lol. MPD and PGGB!?? Using a CX/EX Solution with HQplayer and SSD in the CX.....how/what/where does MPD and PGGB come into play and can it be added/used with what I have?



PGGB is a new off-line upsampling application that works on Windows and Mac computers. A few of us have been beta testing it and it has recently been officially launched and is available for trial and purchase. See *HERE* for the website. There is also an Audiophilestyle *THREAD* dedicated to PGGB.

Initially it was thought that the best way of playing the PGGB processed hi resolution files might be HQP with all upsampling and noise shaping set to 'none', ie in a sort of pass through mode, because this was suggested by the team who had been alpha testing PGGB.

However I, and now a few others, have been finding that we prefer the sound quality of different players and in particular MPD (Music Player Daemon) in preference to the HQP method. With PGGB the audio files are pre processed on ones computer and then stored locally for playing to whatever DAC one has. Many of us use the Dave of course and it works exceptionally well with Dave.

PGGB has cropped up here because a number of us are using Antipodese streamers to store and play the PGGB files. I use a K50 and your CX/EX should work well with PGGB. There is a free trial license which allows up to 5 tracks at a time to be processed so it is easy to evaluate.

I admit there are big logistical matters to be dealt with when using PGGB (for instance one should allow about 20GB per album file size for the PGGB files) but there are many of us now having great fun and listening experiences with PGGB.

I will always keep the Mscaler for streaming and for most playback of ripped files but I use PGGB as a listening treat and for a bit of fun with my favourite albums.


----------



## Ragnar-BY

Triode User said:


> I will always keep the Mscaler for streaming and for most playback of ripped files but I use PGGB as a listening treat and for a bit of fun with my favourite albums.


PGGB processing sounds better than M Scaler?


----------



## cczero17 (May 5, 2021)

Triode User said:


> PGGB is a new off-line upsampling application that works on Windows and Mac computers. A few of us have been beta testing it and it has recently been officially launched and is available for trial and purchase. See *HERE* for the website. There is also an Audiophilestyle *THREAD* dedicated to PGGB.
> 
> Initially it was thought that the best way of playing the PGGB processed hi resolution files might be HQP with all upsampling and noise shaping set to 'none', ie in a sort of pass through mode, because this was suggested by the team who had been alpha testing PGGB.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for taking time out to explain.

So, can PGGB be added to the CX then? Is there a procedure on how to add it and link it to the EX etc...and do I need MPD? Bearing in mind I still HQplayer.

Oh and I guess this is just for stored files, not for streaming Qobuz etc?

Sounds very interesting.


----------



## Progisus

Ragnar-BY said:


> PGGB processing sounds better than M Scaler?


Give it a try. I think you will be impressed. There are a few logistical issues though. The tap count is crazy high.

I see using it as a kind of jukebox. Store the files on a big drive and move them to the listening drive as required.


----------



## Triode User

cczero17 said:


> Thank you so much for taking time out to explain.
> 
> So, can PGGB be added to the CX then? Is there a procedure on how to add it and link it to the EX etc...and do I need MPD? Bearing in mind I still HQplayer.
> 
> ...



You don’t add pggb to the antipodes. Pggb is an application you run usually on a stand alone computer to process the audio files. They are then copied over to where you normally keep your ripped files (Cx?) and you play them using your server/player software outputting usb to your dac. 

You are right that this does not work with  streamed music. 

Have a read in the Pggb website link that I gave in my post. 

Hope this helps. 

It will not be for everyone and not for all ones listening but it is worth trying.


----------



## cczero17 (May 5, 2021)

Triode User said:


> You don’t add pggb to the antipodes. Pggb is an application you run usually on a stand alone computer to process the audio files. They are then copied over to where you normally keep your ripped files (Cx?) and you play them using your server/player software outputting usb to your dac.
> 
> You are right that this does not work with  streamed music.
> 
> ...


lol...im really trying ti understand but im not that technical, so please bear with me

My files are stored on the ssd in the CX, so struggling to get my head around that the application sits on a mac/pc. #scratchinghead. I sit not like hqplayer where the parameters are set and it just left in the background to do its thing when playing through roon?

And as DACs go, Im using an Aqua La Scala Optologic MkII, which is an R2R DAC


----------



## Whazzzup

I believe you transfer those files to your ssd, but frankly they lost me at 20 gig per album.


----------



## kennyb123

cczero17 said:


> lol...im really trying ti understand but im not that technical, so please bear with me
> 
> My files are stored on the ssd in the CX, so struggling to get my head around that the application sits on a mac/pc. #scratchinghead. I sit not like hqplayer where the parameters are set and it just left in the background to do its thing when playing through roon?



You need to copy your music files off of your CX and onto a Mac or a PC so that PGGB can process them. PGGB will generate new better-sounding files.  Once it completes you copy the files back to your CX and play them as a better-sounding version of the original file.


----------



## andrewd01

Just curious, what is the cheapest way to build a computer capable of running PGGB?
I was poking around on the Dell web site and it looks like anything with enough memory will cost ££££


----------



## Whazzzup

Roon offers a nuc now, pretty cheap fanless ssd but I think  not 10-12 cores and 128 gig of ram u need for this monster


----------



## 12grayclouds

frankensmurf said:


> Apologies in advance for the long post, it's a complicated problem with my Antipodes CX; I haven't gotten great answers from Antipodes on this issue so I'm asking here.
> 
> ISSUE:
> I am having terrible problems getting my CX back onto the network, EVERY time I have to power it down. As such I encounter the issue infrequently, but every time it happens the CX is so resistant to joining the network that I am close to throwing it out a window.
> ...


You could try this...

Power the server down from the front button.
Turn off the power switch at the rear.
Switch the power on again at the rear and the front panel switch will light up.
As soon as the front panel switch lights up, click the button once, and the front panel light will pulse
Listen for a beep, which indicates that the unit has ‘posted’. Make sure step 3 (pressing the button) happens before the beep.
The server will now boot up and the front panel light should be solid green.


----------



## kennyb123 (May 6, 2021)

andrewd01 said:


> Just curious, what is the cheapest way to build a computer capable of running PGGB?
> I was poking around on the Dell web site and it looks like anything with enough memory will cost ££££


I use a 2010 Mac Pro.  There are lots of these on eBay.  A 4- or 6-core model with 32 GB of RAM would be sufficient for processing PCM.  Easy to add more should you also want to process DSD.


----------



## andrewd01

I actually have a 2008 Mac Pro with 32 Gb ram. However Apple have blocked software updates, so I can’t get anything better than El Crapitan.  I understand PGGB needs Mojave.


----------



## Progisus

andrewd01 said:


> I actually have a 2008 Mac Pro with 32 Gb ram. However Apple have blocked software updates, so I can’t get anything better than El Crapitan.  I understand PGGB needs Mojave.


Quite a hassle but you could run Windows in a virtual machine using Vmware Fusion (my choice) or Paralells. I have not tried this.


----------



## ReAgent86

frankensmurf said:


> Apologies in advance for the long post, it's a complicated problem with my Antipodes CX; I haven't gotten great answers from Antipodes on this issue so I'm asking here.
> 
> ISSUE:
> I am having terrible problems getting my CX back onto the network, EVERY time I have to power it down. As such I encounter the issue infrequently, but every time it happens the CX is so resistant to joining the network that I am close to throwing it out a window.
> ...


I just had a very similar problem and it was ultimately ascribed to corruption in the OS.  What version are you using?  Version 2,8 was a disaster for me and took my occasional start up issues in 2.7 and turned them into a permanent headache.  You should talk to support about reinstalling the 2.7 OS, as that worked for me. From the symptoms describe, I doubt that a simple on/off reboot technique will resolve the issue if the OS is indeed corrupted.


----------



## kennyb123

andrewd01 said:


> I understand PGGB needs Mojave.



That was the oldest version confirmed to work amongst the beta users.  It's unknown whether it will work on older versions.  Give it a shot and see what happens.


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> Quite a hassle but you could run Windows in a virtual machine using Vmware Fusion (my choice) or Paralells. I have not tried this.


I was doing this before the Mac version came out.  It worked really well.


----------



## Progisus

kennyb123 said:


> I was doing this before the Mac version came out.  It worked really well.


I’ve found MPD playing from internal ssd removes another veil for PGGB playback. On my EX (2.8) my MPD is 0.22.6. I‘ve heard from another K user that they are a couple versions back and limited to control software. Have you tried this?


----------



## andrewd01

kennyb123 said:


> That was the oldest version confirmed to work amongst the beta users.  It's unknown whether it will work on older versions.  Give it a shot and see what happens.


I tried, but I get an error message that it needs OSX 10.14.5.


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> I’ve found MPD playing from internal ssd removes another veil for PGGB playback. On my EX (2.8) my MPD is 0.22.6. I‘ve heard from another K user that they are a couple versions back and limited to control software. Have you tried this?


I’m not sure I can handle the truth.  By that I mean that I really don’t want it made obvious to me yet the degree to which Roon/HQP is veiled.  I’m still enjoying my relatively new K30 way too much.  I spent all this money so I could get back to enjoying Roon again and don’t want to spoil it.


----------



## kennyb123

andrewd01 said:


> I tried, but I get an error message that it needs OSX 10.14.5.


Matlab is what is restricting this.  Seems even support for Mojave will be going away.

https://www.mathworks.com/support/requirements/matlab-system-requirements.html


----------



## Triode User

kennyb123 said:


> I’m not sure I can handle the truth.  By that I mean that I really don’t want it made obvious to me yet the degree to which Roon/HQP is veiled.  I’m still enjoying my relatively new K30 way too much.  I spent all this money so I could get back to enjoying Roon again and don’t want to spoil it.



It is easy to kid oneself that the sound is ok.

Until you hear how good your system can really be . . . .

You spent all that money so why restrict the sound quality?  🤪 🤪 🤣


----------



## kennyb123

Triode User said:


> You spent all that money so why restrict the sound quality?


I prioritize music discovery higher.  I spent all that money to give me the best sounding music discovery platform that I could afford.


----------



## Progisus

kennyb123 said:


> I’m not sure I can handle the truth.  By that I mean that I really don’t want it made obvious to me yet the degree to which Roon/HQP is veiled.  I’m still enjoying my relatively new K30 way too much.  I spent all this money so I could get back to enjoying Roon again and don’t want to spoil it.


Roon/HQPlayer is massively good. PGGB will not be the usual listening mode for me after the honeymoon. I’m already back to sinc-L lns15 and discovering some great prog. Maybe listening to a favorite owned Yes album will bring out the PGGB on occasion. I do feel a license is in the future for those desert island albums. The beauty of Antipodes is how easy it is to switch between players.


----------



## andrewd01

kennyb123 said:


> I prioritize music discovery higher.  I spent all that money to give me the best sounding music discovery platform that I could afford.


Agree 100%.  I pretty much just start with one track I like and let Roon radio do its stuff.  I would typically add five or six new albums to my library in every listening session.

 I am interested in trying stuff like PGGB for one or two tracks just to hear the current state of the art, but there is no way it is workable for me as a regular listening solution.


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> Roon/HQPlayer is massively good. PGGB will not be the usual listening mode for me after the honeymoon. I’m already back to sinc-L lns15 and discovering some great prog. Maybe listening to a favorite owned Yes album will bring out the PGGB on occasion. I do feel a license is in the future for those desert island albums. The beauty of Antipodes is how easy it is to switch between players.


PGGB the MoFi reissue of The Yes Album and you will be amazed.

And yeah Antipodes sure does make it easy to switch between servers/players.


----------



## kennyb123

andrewd01 said:


> Agree 100%.  I pretty much just start with one track I like and let Roon radio do its stuff.  I would typically add five or six new albums to my library in every listening session.
> 
> I am interested in trying stuff like PGGB for one or two tracks just to hear the current state of the art, but there is no way it is workable for me as a regular listening solution.



I use Roon Radio in the same way.  Daytime listening tends to be more about music discovery.  Later in the evening I shutdown Roon and just listen to PGGB processed albums in their entirety using HQPlayer.  There is an uptick in sound quality but not enough to ruin Roon for me.


----------



## Triode User

kennyb123 said:


> I use Roon Radio in the same way.  Daytime listening tends to be more about music discovery.  Later in the evening I shutdown Roon and just listen to PGGB processed albums in their entirety using HQPlayer.  There is an uptick in sound quality but not enough to ruin Roon for me.


That can surely only be because you have not tried MPD in comparison for sound quality using it to play PGGB processed albums. In my system, my ears YMMV etc etc it throws a stark light on the shortcomings of using HQP for PGGB playback and highlights even more the SQ shortcomings of Roon.   🤪


----------



## worknprogress

I see that the K50, S20, and P2 have a Femto Master Word Clock BNC output.  I have not found more info on the specs of this option.  I am curious whether this would be suitable and beneficial for connection to an EtherRegen.  Do any of you have experience using this clock and/or can share specs on it.


----------



## Progisus

kennyb123 said:


> PGGB the MoFi reissue of The Yes Album and you will be amazed.
> 
> And yeah Antipodes sure does make it easy to switch between servers/players.


I pggb’d the Steven Wilson remixes of all my Yes stuff. I’ve listened to Yes for 50 years and PGGB has renewed the love. Porcupine Tree and Steven Wilson library are next. This third wave lockdown for us has given time for this wonderful discovery.


----------



## Triode User

Progisus said:


> I pggb’d the Steven Wilson remixes of all my Yes stuff. I’ve listened to Yes for 50 years and PGGB has renewed the love. Porcupine Tree and Steven Wilson library are next. This third wave lockdown for us has given time for this wonderful discovery.


 Which settings are you using on PGGB? These? (I'm just processing my Yes collection in the background at the moment.)


----------



## Progisus

Triode User said:


> Which settings are you using on PGGB? These? (I'm just processing my Yes collection in the background at the moment.)


All my settings are the same except HF Noise Filter which is moderate.


----------



## worknprogress

Regarding the Femto Master Clock and possible use with the EtherREGEN, I emailed Antipodes and Mark emailed me the Antipodes clock is not compatible with the EtherRegen.


----------



## SeriousSid

Would there be a kind gent, other genders are available, who would be able to do a few conversations to allow me the opportunity to test PGGB. My lowly PC would burst into flames at the attempt to do the conversion.


----------



## Triode User

SeriousSid said:


> Would there be a kind gent, other genders are available, who would be able to do a few conversations to allow me the opportunity to test PGGB. My lowly PC would burst into flames at the attempt to do the conversion.


I have done this for a few people. I will message you.


----------



## naynay

I only use MPD as to me it was the better sounding player app after testing them all.


----------



## andrewd01

Many thanks to @Triode User who kindly converted one of my files with PGGB, upscaled with 265M taps.
Comparing the PGGB file to the redbook track upscaled in real time with HQP (sincL LNS15), the PGGB file is clearly better.
It gives more of what 2M tap upscaling does in HQ Player.  The easiest way to describe the difference is that the PGGB file sounds closer to live music.

I think it is something I will consider investing in if I can wrap my head around the IT logistics.  I think there is a market for someone to design a bespoke computer that has what is needed for PGGB processing and nothing more. Preferably in a compact case.


----------



## Progisus

Just posted on AS as to the plus minus of wavpack. Thoughts?


----------



## Triode User

andrewd01 said:


> Many thanks to @Triode User who kindly converted one of my files with PGGB, upscaled with 265M taps.
> Comparing the PGGB file to the redbook track upscaled in real time with HQP (sincL LNS15), the PGGB file is clearly better.
> It gives more of what 2M tap upscaling does in HQ Player.  The easiest way to describe the difference is that the PGGB file sounds closer to live music.
> 
> I think it is something I will consider investing in if I can wrap my head around the IT logistics.  I think there is a market for someone to design a bespoke computer that has what is needed for PGGB processing and nothing more. Preferably in a compact case.


I’m glad you liked the pggb file I processed for you.

I use my iMac for the processing and it just does it in the background whilst I am doing my work on it.

I like pggb a lot but much of my listening is streamed so I will continue to use the Mscaler for that and also for the vast bulk of my locally stored files on the K50.


----------



## Clive101

Has anyone tried a decent CD transport for example Pro-Ject CD Box RS2 T and compared to a stream on Qubuz vs stored files ?

The K50 is very close in SQ comparing local files vs streaming, higher res files steaming also easily beats the lower equivalent stored file which is no surprise. 

BUT....

I wondered if a CD transport would bring a significant increase when comparing CD vs Ripped, that is K50 or any other Antipodes Server vs a CD transport ?


----------



## Progisus

naynay said:


> I only use MPD as to me it was the better sounding player app after testing them all.


Have you noticed the high pitch squeal when pausing or stopping a track on your EX? If allowed to finish there is no squeal.  I find if after a pause or stop I quickly play a non pggb track and then stop the squeal is gone.


----------



## Triode User

Progisus said:


> Have you noticed the high pitch squeal when pausing or stopping a track on your EX? If allowed to finish there is no squeal.  I find if after a pause or stop I quickly play a non pggb track and then stop the squeal is gone.


I have. This is it !! 

I have reported it to Mark Cole (and sent him a PGGB track so he can hear it) but it would be good if a few others chime in and report it to him as well. I haven't had any response yet.


----------



## naynay

Hi all,

Yes I get same high pitch squeal when playing PGGB and pausing.


----------



## Triode User

naynay said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Yes I get same high pitch squeal when playing PGGB and pausing.


Please email Mark Cole. The more people ask for a solution the quicker it will be!


----------



## Progisus

Triode User said:


> Please email Mark Cole. The more people ask for a solution the quicker it will be!


Done


----------



## naynay

Triode User said:


> Please email Mark Cole. The more people ask for a solution the quicker it will be!


I have emailed Mark.


----------



## Progisus

Triode User said:


> Please email Mark Cole. The more people ask for a solution the quicker it will be!


Mark has replied that a major upgrade is in the works and a fix for this issue should be included. I don't know if it is just for the newer series or if the EX CX will be included. He said the changes to the software ecosystem are extensive. Fingers crossed.

I've started doing my remasters as wv as the space savings outweighs any perceived degradation to sound.


----------



## naynay

Has anyone attached a USB portable drive to there CX for music playback? 

I have a few USB 2TB ones I no longer use but thought I would use them to store some PGGB files as there are a couple of USB ports on the back of the CX and run the USB portable drive of a separate power source and see how it sounds compared to my internal SSD drives.

I have mounted the USB drive on the CX using the APP and it shows up and can also access it through windows explorer but get an error message when adding music files saying could not be performed because of an I/O device error.


----------



## Triode User

Progisus said:


> Mark has replied that a major upgrade is in the works and a fix for this issue should be included. I don't know if it is just for the newer series or if the EX CX will be included. He said the changes to the software ecosystem are extensive. Fingers crossed.
> 
> I've started doing my remasters as wv as the space savings outweighs any perceived degradation to sound.


Thanks for reporting back.

Can I ask what playback / player software are you using with the EX /CX? I cannot get either MPD or HQP to 'see' the wavpack albums on my K50.


----------



## Progisus

naynay said:


> Has anyone attached a USB portable drive to there CX for music playback?
> 
> I have a few USB 2TB ones I no longer use but thought I would use them to store some PGGB files as there are a couple of USB ports on the back of the CX and run the USB portable drive of a separate power source and see how it sounds compared to my internal SSD drives.
> 
> I have mounted the USB drive on the CX using the APP and it shows up and can also access it through windows explorer but get an error message when adding music files saying could not be performed because of an I/O device error.


It may mount it as read only. That is how it mounts network drives.


----------



## Progisus

Triode User said:


> Thanks for reporting back.
> 
> Can I ask what playback / player software are you using with the EX /CX? I cannot get either MPD or HQP to 'see' the wavpack albums on my K50.


I am using MPD 0.22.6 on the EX. I have upgraded my EX to 2.8 which allows upgrades to the installed programs. i.e. hqplayer, mpd etc.  BTW - latest hqplayer downloaded with ext3 filter. The EX cannot handle it.


----------



## Triode User

Progisus said:


> I am using MPD 0.22.6 on the EX. I have upgraded my EX to 2.8 which allows upgrades to the installed programs. i.e. hqplayer, mpd etc.  BTW - latest hqplayer downloaded with ext3 filter. The EX cannot handle it.


I suspect my issue is old versions of MPD and HQP. I am assuming Antipodes are wanting to release to new software as a whole rather than solve existing issues piecemeal on the K30 / K50. I will try to be patient but I have been trying that for 60 + years and haven't yet got used to that way of doing things!


----------



## Progisus

Triode User said:


> I suspect my issue is old versions of MPD and HQP. I am assuming Antipodes are wanting to release to new software as a whole rather than solve existing issues piecemeal on the K30 / K50. I will try to be patient but I have been trying that for 60 + years and haven't yet got used to that way of doing things!


BTW... To test MPD for you I loaded a pggb album I thought wouldn’t be much of an upgrade. I can’t turn it off. Airbag — Day at the Beach. I think a full license is in my future.


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> Mark has replied that a major upgrade is in the works and a fix for this issue should be included. I don't know if it is just for the newer series or if the EX CX will be included. He said the changes to the software ecosystem are extensive. Fingers crossed.


Did you get any sense of timeframe?  I wonder what’s coming.


----------



## Triode User

kennyb123 said:


> Did you get any sense of timeframe?  I wonder what’s coming.


I get the impression it is a significant undertaking. I wonder if it will be similar to the soon to be released 2.0 app by Innuos that will have its own player to rival Roon?


----------



## Progisus

Triode User said:


> I get the impression it is a significant undertaking. I wonder if it will be similar to the soon to be released 2.0 app by Innuos that will have its own player to rival Roon?





Triode User said:


> I get the impression it is a significant undertaking. I wonder if it will be similar to the soon to be released 2.0 app by Innuos that will have its own player to rival Roon?


Here is Mark’s reply which is quite encouraging. 

“yes Nick has sent thru a file, and has pointed out that the MPD version loaded requires updating.
We are aware and have new software in testing, which we will be pushing out soon.
The update is a major one including GUI updates among other App related updates, along with the ability to make updating easier for users in the future.
I understand the issue can be frustrating, however we are working towards a complete overhaul of the software ecosystem, and we want to get it right.

Kind regards, 
Mark”


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> we are working towards a complete overhaul of the software ecosystem, and we want to get it right.


Not that I thought a major overhaul was necessary, I still think it’s great that they are aiming to do this.


----------



## Progisus

Re PGGB: all licensed up with a 10 album batch brewing. I knew I kept all those usb drives in a drawer for a reason.


----------



## richardloh

Any reason why this PGGB topic resides in a thread for Antipodes and seem to continue further ?

Read briefly and some about preprocessing and copying back for improved sound quality which is great.

Cheers.


----------



## Progisus

richardloh said:


> Any reason why this PGGB topic resides in a thread for Antipodes and seem to continue further ?
> 
> Read briefly and some about preprocessing and copying back for improved sound quality which is great.
> 
> Cheers.


This thread is a place for general discussion of Antipodes Servers and their relevant use. This is very relevant and of interest to a number of Antipodes users. Antipodes provides playback methods that lend themselves well to playing PGGB files.... HQPlayer, MPD, Roon.


----------



## burbster

Hi All, I am quite sure I have interacted with several of you over in the Chord Dave and Mscaler forums, and through that interaction I am one of those who has also ditched Roon in search of better SQ. I am trying to use MPD on my CX - EX combo. But I seem to having real trouble getting a DLNA server running properly on the CX. I can get the player working on the EX and even play internet radio, but I cannot get it to see any of my music collection on the CX. It is weird as it is showing up on my mac and windows machines as a media share, but all directories are empty. I also tried running minimserv, but that just fails to install, so I use the standard UpNp/DLNA render app. Any Ideas?

Also, I am running 2.7, seems a real faf to upgrade to 2.8, plus when I asked Antipodes direct, they replied to say 2.8 was not designed for the CX and EX and was intended for their sister company's products, yet I see people on here have upgraded, is it worth it?


----------



## Whazzzup

Have you tried software manager upgrade? It will work or it won’t. I’m a dinosaur with a late model DX, even though it looks like the update version went well, it won’t accept 2.8 so I’m on 2.7. I check periodically, you never know if they will back stop earlier antipodes models.


----------



## burbster

Whazzzup said:


> Have you tried software manager upgrade? It will work or it won’t. I’m a dinosaur with a late model DX, even though it looks like the update version went well, it won’t accept 2.8 so I’m on 2.7. I check periodically, you never know if they will back stop earlier antipodes models.


Sorry, excuse my ignorance, I have tried upgrading to 2.8 in the conventional way, and like you said, it seems to go well, but still says you are running 2.7. After several attempts at that method with same results, I e-mailed Antipodes, which is when they replied to say 2.8 is not for the CX EX. But I have also seen a procedure for upgrading the CX and EX to 2.8, but that looks quite long winded and a bit of a pain.


----------



## naynay

Not sure if you have used the Procedure shown in the attachment to upgrade to 2.8

It is straight forward but just takes a little time. Once upgraded try running MPD along with MinimServer which is what I have setup and have been running for a while now  with no issues.


----------



## Progisus

naynay said:


> Not sure if you have used the Procedure shown in the attachment to upgrade to 2.8
> 
> It is straight forward but just takes a little time. Once upgraded try running MPD along with MinimServer which is what I have setup and have been running for a while now  with no issues.


That is the procedure I used as well. I did not need a server to run MPD as it saw my library immediately. My library and MPD are on the EX only. I would think MPD needs to be on the machine that has the usb port your dac is connected to. NayNay... you had a a EX/CX solution so you may be more help.


----------



## naynay

burbster said:


> I also tried running minimserv, but that just fails to install


You need to upgrade to 2.8 to get MinimServer to load as I found out. I think you would be best to upgrade to 2.8 anyway.


----------



## burbster

Ok Thanks Guys, appreciate that. Will give 2.8 a go. Just hope it goes well!!


----------



## naynay

Progisus said:


> NayNay... you had a a EX/CX solution so you may be more help.


I didn't sell either of them in the end.


----------



## kennyb123

burbster said:


> Also, I am running 2.7, seems a real faf to upgrade to 2.8, plus when I asked Antipodes direct, they replied to say 2.8 was not designed for the CX and EX and was intended for their sister company's products, yet I see people on here have upgraded, is it worth it?



They have a sister company?  Who’s that?


----------



## td19

burbster said:


> Ok Thanks Guys, appreciate that. Will give 2.8 a go. Just hope it goes well!!


I suggest at this point you do not upgrade to Version 2.8. Squeezebox Server on the CX can function as a DLNA server.. You just need to enable the UPnP/DLNA Media Interface plugin in Squeezebox Server settings. You can use either the MPD/DLNA renderer or Squeezelite, running on the EX, as the renderer.


----------



## burbster

kennyb123 said:


> They have a sister company?  Who’s that?


I’m pretty sure it was ‘little green computer’ I will try and find original reply to confirm.


----------



## kennyb123

burbster said:


> I’m pretty sure it was ‘little green computer’ I will try and find original reply to confirm.


Or maybe Small Green Computer?  I wondered about their Sonic Orbiter OS and its relationship to Antipodes.  I thought maybe Antipodes licenses it from them.  But “sister company“ suggests there’s more to it than that.

https://www.smallgreencomputer.com/


----------



## Progisus

td19 said:


> I suggest at this point you do not upgrade to Version 2.8. Squeezebox Server on the CX can function as a DLNA server.. You just need to enable the UPnP/DLNA Media Interface plugin in Squeezebox Server settings. You can use either the MPD/DLNA renderer or Squeezelite, running on the EX, as the renderer.


Why do you suggest not to upgrade to 2.8? The updates to HQPlayer and it’s new filters or MPD made it worthwhile in my use case. I see you are in New Zealand so maybe some insider info?


----------



## burbster

kennyb123 said:


> Or maybe Small Green Computer?  I wondered about their Sonic Orbiter OS and its relationship to Antipodes.  I thought maybe Antipodes licenses it from them.  But “sister company“ suggests there’s more to it than that.
> 
> https://www.smallgreencomputer.com/


Ah, yes small not little, close!!  But orginally the reply from Antipodes said that 2.8 was for that hardware not the CX or EX.


----------



## Progisus

burbster said:


> Ah, yes small not little, close!!  But orginally the reply from Antipodes said that 2.8 was for that hardware not the CX or EX.


Interesting as it was Antipodes Support that suggested the 2.8 upgrade and sent me the procedure. I suspect they are looking at a different software supplier or maybe in house.


----------



## frankensmurf

Help with a problem.. : /
I had a power outage during playback. Afterwards the CX and EX boot normally, but when I launch Roon on my laptop, I can connect to the CX core but I get this: 





I sadly do NOT have a very recent backup. So restoring from my 2-mth old backup is an option but not optimal.

There are a few tweaky suggestions from the Roon Communities to troubleshoot corrupted Roon databases, but you need to get to the actual library / installation directories of Roon. How do I get there, on a CX? When I access the CX network share from another computer all I get is the "nas", "storage", and "usb" folders which contain my media.

I have already tried clearing the cache in the CX / Roon App page, and of course stopping and restarting the Roon server app. 

Any other suggestions from users here? Is anyone even using Roon any more?


----------



## Progisus

frankensmurf said:


> Help with a problem.. : /
> I had a power outage during playback. Afterwards the CX and EX boot normally, but when I launch Roon on my laptop, I can connect to the CX core but I get this:
> 
> 
> ...


I am not running core on EX but when I did.... goto settings, roon server and I think there was a button to make database visible.


----------



## Progisus

I’ve noticed significantly better hqplayer pggb playback by using the embedded on the EX rather than a desktop version. Files for embedded are on the EX. Files for desktop are on usb drive attached to desktop machine.


----------



## frankensmurf

Progisus said:


> I am not running core on EX but when I did.... goto settings, roon server and I think there was a button to make database visible.


That did it - thanks!

Now... to see if I can somehow surgically fix the corrupted Roon db.   : /


----------



## burbster

Progisus said:


> Interesting as it was Antipodes Support that suggested the 2.8 upgrade and sent me the procedure. I suspect they are looking at a different software supplier or maybe in house.


OK, I found the e-mail, from Sept 2020, they didn't actually use the words 'sister company' but this was response when I asked about upgrading to 2,8, but like I said this was Sep last year.

_'Version 2.8 does not apply to Antipodes servers, but it does for servers from our colleague Small Green Computers.

Version 2.7 is the latest version for Antipodes and continues to receive regular updates.'_

I also asked again in Feb this year, see response below, my guess is perhaps they had not fully tested it on the CX/EX platforms at that time? And now they have, so more confident to recommend the upgrade? is 2.8 official update for CX-EX?

_'Hi there Marcus,

Version 2.7 is the current available version. We will be releasing an update
in the near future, and will push this out at that time. I would recommend
waiting for the official software update.

Kind regards, Mark'_


----------



## andrewd01

Progisus said:


> Why do you suggest not to upgrade to 2.8? The updates to HQPlayer and it’s new filters or MPD made it worthwhile in my use case. I see you are in New Zealand so maybe some insider info?


I think @td19 is Tony Devitt.


----------



## Progisus

andrewd01 said:


> I think @td19 is Tony Devitt.


He would know!


----------



## frankensmurf (May 31, 2021)

Clive101 said:


> Suggest you return  to CX for repair clearly it is defective.
> Two year warranty, three on registration hope you still are within time?
> There is sequence of switching on the CX EX combo perhaps it is this?
> CX  on first for one minute then the EX, reversed when switching off.
> ...


Just to follow up on this:
A very patient Mark Cole walked me through this, apparently this happens when the unit doesn't shut down properly. The fix apparently is simply to power the unit down, back on via the rear switch, and *not wait more than a couple seconds* before pressing the (orange) button on the front. There is also possibly a long-press (10-second press of the front power switch to shut it down, like a frozen PC) before this, I've forgotten the details now.

..Just in case anyone else sees this issue.

I do still have a problem getting it (the CX, specifically, never the EX) to join the network on power-up... usually one more reboot gets it going.


----------



## burbster

Any updates at all on when the upgrades will be available for the cx and ex? Any rumours? Contemplating trading in for a k series, but I do actually like the separate box approach, so hanging on to see what the upgrade involves, costs and what sort of performance uplift it will give.


----------



## Whazzzup

Isn’t the New K and S series replacing Cx ex that replaced DX


----------



## burbster

Whazzzup said:


> Isn’t the New K and S series replacing Cx ex that replaced DX


Yes that is correct, but apparently they are also releasing hardware upgrades for the outgoing CX and EX, utilising some of the new technology found in the K series. Rumours were early 2021, but i have heard nothing at all here in the UK, just wondering whether anyone else had any news. I am not sure if the upgrades can be user installed or you have to send the unit(s) away.


----------



## Uncle Monty

Since all CX / EX have their own ip addresses and are hooked up via ethernet, will it not be like an OS update on a PC?


----------



## Whazzzup

Well there all ready is a software manager that acts like an OS update but the upgrade path is not only software but hardware and other components. So the question if ex or Cx will be offered a user pay upgrade path is something else or just move to new k or s


----------



## kennyb123

burbster said:


> Yes that is correct, but apparently they are also releasing hardware upgrades for the outgoing CX and EX, utilising some of the new technology found in the K series.



A while back on Audiophile Style, there was a mention of an OLADRA upgrade for the CX and EX.  I though that might mean the potential of a power supply upgrade.  The thread can be found here.  Scroll down through it for more details.


----------



## Progisus

I’ve been redoing all my pggb to 16fs 24b and actually prefer it to 32b. The extra space recouped is nice too. I have tried playback in every way available to me... roon direct, roon and hqplayer, hqplayer with hqpdcontrol, hqplayer with client player, lms and squeezelite and mpd. I’ve settled on roon and hqplayer. Many of the golden ears (not derogatory) have left roon. To me it is just too essential a part of my musical enjoyment and workflow. The best quality is probably mpd but the roon curation makes up for the slight difference with hqplayer. 

I would be interested to hear what other users of pggb have settled on.


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> I’ve been redoing all my pggb to 16fs 24b and actually prefer it to 32b.


Very interesting.  I have not done this comparison myself, but recently asked a friend do it.   He had a very strong preference for 32 bit.


----------



## Progisus

kennyb123 said:


> Very interesting.  I have not done this comparison myself, but recently asked a friend do it.   He had a very strong preference for 32 bit.


I have 2 listening stations... H2 with SRC-DX and TT2. The DX does 24b so it led me down that road.


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> I have 2 listening stations... H2 with SRC-DX and TT2. The DX does 24b so it led me down that road.



Ah yes it seems widely agreed that 24b with SRC-DX is better than 32b via USB into a Chord DAC.  I’ve elected to sit on the sidelines with respect to the SRC-DX for the time being.


----------



## Triode User (Jun 5, 2021)

Progisus said:


> I’ve been redoing all my pggb to 16fs 24b and actually prefer it to 32b. The extra space recouped is nice too. I have tried playback in every way available to me... roon direct, roon and hqplayer, hqplayer with hqpdcontrol, hqplayer with client player, lms and squeezelite and mpd. I’ve settled on roon and hqplayer. Many of the golden ears (not derogatory) have left roon. To me it is just too essential a part of my musical enjoyment and workflow. The best quality is probably mpd but the roon curation makes up for the slight difference with hqplayer.
> 
> I would be interested to hear what other users of pggb have settled on.


16fs 24bit with SRC-DX and dual bnc to my dc4 Dave with MPD on my Antipodes K50 is my favourite configuration. The increase in sound quality using MPD compared to pass through HQP by itself or Roon + pass through HQP was too big to ignore.

Note that when using the SRC-DX it is worth experimenting with different BNC cables because i found it made just about the same difference as with the mscaler.


----------



## Progisus

Triode User said:


> 16fs 24bit with SRC-DX and dual bnc to my dc4 Dave with MPD on my Antipodes K50 is my favourite configuration. The increase in sound quality using MPD compared to pass through HQP by itself or Roon + pass through HQP was too big to ignore.
> 
> Note that when using the SRC-DX it is worth experimenting with different BNC cables because i found it made just about the same difference as with the mscaler.


What app are you using to control your MPD server? I’ve been using Rigelian but I am getting frustrated getting it to put tracks in order or to stop splitting albums.


----------



## Triode User

Progisus said:


> What app are you using to control your MPD server? I’ve been using Rigelian but I am getting frustrated getting it to put tracks in order or to stop splitting albums.


With MPD on the K50 I use the MconnectHD app on an Ipad. This also integrates Tidal and Qobuz.


----------



## frankensmurf

Question for everyone: I am setting up a friend's CX, which requires moving several terabytes of music from his old USB drives to his new SSD installed in the CX. 

I know the recommended method is to access both volumes via the network share, and drag and drop using my local OS (in my case Mac OS). However, from a copy perspective this is moving all the data across the network, which is an order of magnitude slower than physically copying across USB on the CX (between one drive and another) itself. 

Is there a way to perform this copy on the device itself?


----------



## Whazzzup

there's a back up usb slot for a memory stick,  but don't know if its any faster.


----------



## kennyb123

Whazzzup said:


> there's a back up usb slot for a memory stick,  but don't know if its any faster.


True if it’s connected at USB 2.0 - then gigabit Ethernet would be twice as fast.


----------



## td19

frankensmurf said:


> Question for everyone: I am setting up a friend's CX, which requires moving several terabytes of music from his old USB drives to his new SSD installed in the CX.
> 
> I know the recommended method is to access both volumes via the network share, and drag and drop using my local OS (in my case Mac OS). However, from a copy perspective this is moving all the data across the network, which is an order of magnitude slower than physically copying across USB on the CX (between one drive and another) itself.
> 
> Is there a way to perform this copy on the device itself?


You can plug the USB drive into one of the blue USB ports at the back of the CX and use the Drive Mounter app (Settings/Drive Mounter - USB tab) to mount the drive. It will be mounted as /storage/usbdrive. In Windows File Explorer or OSX Finder you can then copy from /storage/usbdrive to /storage/'your preferred folder'.


----------



## Whazzzup

small thing for iTunes and iMac users of roon on antipodes. don't know what happened but fixed. Liked promaster studio, sounds great. but iTunes is cheaper and now back to multi platform.... Cant figure out what happened but really don't care.


----------



## Progisus

For Antipodes users who are experimenting with pggb files here is my equipment for processing and playback. I have tested many playback schemes and found the following to work best for me. Playback tested: squeezelite, mpd direct, mpd upnp/dnla, hqplayer with hqpd control, hqplayer direct, hqplayer with client, Audirvana dlna, roon direct and roon with hqplayer.

Processing: 2020 iMac, 10 core, 40gb ram with pggb (perpetual license), 16fs 24b and mp3tag

roon core: nuc7i3 with 2tb internal ssd for redbook library, 3tb usb drive for pggb

network: fibre from core to Antipodes

Antipodes EX: all software stripped except hqpe. hqpe to alsa/usb to src-dx to tt2

playback: streamed - roon/hqpe, pcm,24b,poly-sinc-guass-long,lns15,-3db
playback: pggb - roon/hqpe, pcm,24b,none,none,0db. I boot to stream settings and change on main screen of embedded app as necessary for pggb.

Of course imho, ymmv


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> I have tested many playback schemes and found the following to work best for me.


When you say “work best”, are there factors in addition to sound quality that factor into this?  Seems so, but I just wanted to confirm.  

My current routine is typically:
playback: discovery - roon/hqpe, pcm,32b,sync-m,lns15,0db
playback: pggb - hqpdcontrol/hqpe, pcm,32b,none,none,0db. 

where discovery is a combination of files on my NAS and streamed.  I say “current routine“ and not “works best“ as I haven‘t explored all the options.


----------



## Progisus

kennyb123 said:


> When you say “work best”, are there factors in addition to sound quality that factor into this?  Seems so, but I just wanted to confirm.
> 
> My current routine is typically:
> playback: discovery - roon/hqpe, pcm,32b,sync-m,lns15,0db
> ...


It’s really “works best for me” and comprises sound quality and functionality. I personally don’t feel using roon to control hqplayer detracts from the sound. Both roon and hqpdcontrol set the stream path and trigger the play controls and then move out of the way. So to me they both sound the same. I am not a fan of rescanning the hqplayer library with each new addition. In roon I can focus on the 3tb pggb drive and make a bookmark. For my bookmarks for discovery and non pggb playback I just add the 3tb focus and invert it to exclude pggb files.

At first I felt MPD direct or even squeezelite was a better sound. Further testing showed hqplayer had a fuller sound and darker background.

Of course every system is different. The path length and route from the file storage to the player being very important to sound quality.


----------



## Triode User

Progisus said:


> It’s really “works best for me” and comprises sound quality and functionality. I personally don’t feel using roon to control hqplayer detracts from the sound. Both roon and hqpdcontrol set the stream path and trigger the play controls and then move out of the way. So to me they both sound the same. I am not a fan of rescanning the hqplayer library with each new addition. In roon I can focus on the 3tb pggb drive and make a bookmark. For my bookmarks for discovery and non pggb playback I just add the 3tb focus and invert it to exclude pggb files.
> 
> At first I felt MPD direct or even squeezelite was a better sound. Further testing showed hqplayer had a fuller sound and darker background.
> 
> Of course every system is different. The path length and route from the file storage to the player being very important to sound quality.


There really is no ‘right’ answer here.

It is what each of us prefers.

In my system i clearly hear Roon and Hqp impacting on the pggb playback SQ. That is why I have settled on MPD with the K50 for pggb playback. Sometimes I miss the functionality of Roon and switch back to using it but this has never lasted for more than 30mins before i give up on it again.

I know that this is an antipodes thread but the beta version of the innuos 2.0 app shows great promise and sounds very good playing pggb files. It would be nice if antipodes went in that direction.


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> So to me they both sound the same. I am not a fan of rescanning the hqplayer library with each new addition



I only have hqpe scan my local folder that contains my PGGB tracks, so rescanning is pretty painless.

Listening so often without Roon involved has made it more difficult to enjoy Roon.  There’s an edginess present that goes away when I switch over to HQPDcontrol.


----------



## kennyb123

Triode User said:


> I know that this is an antipodes thread but the beta version of the innuos 2.0 app shows great promise and sounds very good playing pggb files. It would be nice if antipodes went in that direction


It would be nice if Antipodes didn’t lock K-series owners out of being able to upgrade the 3rd party software that shipped with their servers.  HQPlayer embedded v4.18.0 just turned a year old yesterday.  Current version is 4.24.0 and it has a bunch of features not found in the version we’re stuck with.


----------



## Triode User

kennyb123 said:


> It would be nice if Antipodes didn’t lock K-series owners out of being able to upgrade the 3rd party software that shipped with their servers.  HQPlayer embedded v4.18.0 just turned a year old yesterday.  Current version is 4.24.0 and it has a bunch of features not found in the version we’re stuck with.


It is suspected that Antipodes have an update due that will sort out this mess with the K series Antipodes but for sure I am not amused having bought their top streamer to then find out that it is using out of date software.

All i can suggest is that all K series owners make their displeasure known to Antipodes on a regular basis.


----------



## Clive101

@Kapiti (AKA Mark from Antipodes) has tried to post several times but the posts are blocked, which is unfortunate to say the least.

In fairness to Antipodes the HQP (newer versions) has a new OS that is not compatible, so Antipodes are working to accommodate different OS which has caused a delay.
Perhaps in the meantime  HQP will release a version that is Antipodes friendly?

News of the upcoming CX and EX update was blocked but check the Antipodes website for any news.

Perhaps this post may be blocked.


----------



## kennyb123 (Jun 14, 2021)

Clive101 said:


> In fairness to Antipodes the HQP (newer versions) has a new OS that is not compatible, so Antipodes are working to accommodate different OS which has caused a delay.
> Perhaps in the meantime HQP will release a version that is Antipodes friendly?


I’m not understanding this.  There’s nothing in the release notes to suggest such a dramatic change to the embedded version of HQPlayer. 

They do have a separate product called HQPlayer OS.  This is a Linux distribution that’s been optimized for HQPlayer.  This is not something that should be deployed to an Antipodes server.  The embedded version should continue to be the one Antipodes gives us.  Descriptions provided here:

https://www.signalyst.com/custom.html

I can fully understand Antipodes wanting to get the update situation straightened out.  I just wish they would have elected to allow some updates to flow out while continuing the work on the new GUI.  I got my K30 in January and for the first 5 months was only singing praises on the forums.  But hearing that the CX actually received updated versions brought a premature end to my honeymoon period.  Easy enough though to get me back on that path.  All will be good once updates are flowing at a regular pace.


----------



## burbster

Clive101 said:


> @Kapiti (AKA Mark from Antipodes) has tried to post several times but the posts are blocked, which is unfortunate to say the least.
> 
> In fairness to Antipodes the HQP (newer versions) has a new OS that is not compatible, so Antipodes are working to accommodate different OS which has caused a delay.
> Perhaps in the meantime  HQP will release a version that is Antipodes friendly?
> ...


Just checked website, no news on upgrades, do you know any more? Are you at liberty to say?


----------



## Clive101 (Jun 18, 2021)

burbster said:


> Just checked website, no news on upgrades, do you know any more? Are you at liberty to say?


I have no further information other than Mark Cole aka @Kapiti  emailed me June 7th that he tried to put information on this forum about the upgrade program and was blocked and again on the 13th that he wanted to post about a new OS for HQP.
I guess there maybe different rules for trade, non-trade and most importantly trade that sponsor Head-Fi.
He also hinted that a chat page may be introduced on the Antipodes website.....
Of course soon as I know anything I will post....if possible


----------



## Triode User

Clive101 said:


> I have no further information other than Mark Cole aka @Kapiti  emailed me June 7th that he tried to put information on this forum about the upgrade program and was blocked and again on the 13th that he wanted to post about a new OS for HQP.
> I guess there maybe different rules for trade, non-trade and most importantly trade that sponsor Head-Fi.
> He also hinted that a chat page may be introduced on the Antipodes website.....
> Of course soon as I know anything I will post....if possible


Clive, I emailed Mark Cole aka @Kapiti a few days ago saying if he can give me an update I am happy to copy and paste onto here because that will be allowed but I have not yet heard back from him.

I am sure they are busy at Antipodes working away doing stuff to get to where we all want them to be with the K series software but I am equally sure that a few words saying what they are doing and with a hoped for timescale of an estimated number of weeks/months would go a long way to reassure their loyal owners.


----------



## naynay

I will email Mark but anyone know if you can view Two mounted SSD drives as individual drives in File Explorer?

In the server it combines the two drives as one.


----------



## td19

The two SSDs can not be viewed as individual drives in File Explorer or Finder. They are configured as a single logical drive.


----------



## naynay

I believe the Update will be available August along with upgrade to OLADRA technology for CX and EX.


----------



## Triode User

naynay said:


> I believe the Update will be available August along with upgrade to OLADRA technology for CX and EX.


August is not very far away, a couple of months or so.

Thanks for posting that.


----------



## naynay

Been trying out the SRC-DX dual mode to chord dac dual BNC inputs from Antipodes EX audio powered USB output and then using the Antipodes EX second non powered USB output going direct to chord dac USB input using a Acoustic Revive USB-1.0SPS which has separate power/audio.

Was trying to do a direct comparison by switching the input on the chord dac from dual bnc mode then to usb so I can compare 24bit PGGB through SRC-DX and direct through USB.

Switching the input on the chord dac from dual bnc to USB made no change; it will remain on whichever input is first recognized and will only switch if you disconnect the other USB cable.

Anyone else tried this?


----------



## Clive101

naynay said:


> Been trying out the SRC-DX dual mode to chord dac dual BNC inputs from Antipodes EX audio powered USB output and then using the Antipodes EX second non powered USB output going direct to chord dac USB input using a Acoustic Revive USB-1.0SPS which has separate power/audio.
> 
> Was trying to do a direct comparison by switching the input on the chord dac from dual bnc mode then to usb so I can compare 24bit PGGB through SRC-DX and direct through USB.
> 
> ...


I switch between the USB and BNC out on the K50 to the Dave and DaveMsacler if that counts (similar).
I much prefer the BNC out with a Wave cable.
To do the switch I needed to switch the player output in the player software.
You can only output one source at a time from the Antipodes that is why Dave only sees one at a time perhaps depending on which was plugged in first as the player software outputs on the first one plugged in by default the second output from the ex has to be selected ?
Hope it helps


----------



## naynay

@Clive101 Yes as you said the Antipodes outputs one source at a time that is what's causing the issue. I am sure they could provide a future update to have the servers recognise when switching USB audio outputs to compatible dac.


----------



## FlikFlac

Hi, new to posting but have read through this thread and thought I’d join in having just acquired a S40.

Two things worth mentioning, first, it has made a significant difference compared to the Project Stream Ultra I was using previously. So much so it has necessitated a period of adjustment regarding speaker position and room treatment. Second, I was interested to see mention of burn in as it does seem to vary a bit, especially with the high end. It has sounded glorious, but, it has also sounded worryingly harsh.

During the glorious moments, the change in sound fits all the cliches we know and love so I won’t repeat them. However worth noting that if I’d got the same improvement in sound having just changed to a more powerful amplifier, I’d be less surprised than I am having gained so much from the source alone.

I’ve settled for the moment on treatment and speaker placements and now need to let the S40 settle/burn-in as I’ve only had it a few days.

As an initial assessment I’d say huge potential but not yet showing all I hope (and expect) it to be capable of. 

FYI

using Qobuz, Mscaler/TT2, Norma IPA 70 and Marten Duke 2 speakers.


----------



## Progisus

FlikFlac said:


> Hi, new to posting but have read through this thread and thought I’d join in having just acquired a S40.
> 
> Two things worth mentioning, first, it has made a significant difference compared to the Project Stream Ultra I was using previously. So much so it has necessitated a period of adjustment regarding speaker position and room treatment. Second, I was interested to see mention of burn in as it does seem to vary a bit, especially with the high end. It has sounded glorious, but, it has also sounded worryingly harsh.
> 
> ...


Welcome… my experience is that Antipodes does benefit from burn in. I’ve been using my EX as a roon server and minimserver with playback from network 2 to a usbridge signature, src-dx and tt2 (dbnc). Although it may not be as powerful as a roon server, there is a sound improvement over a regular computer.


----------



## Whazzzup

A couple hundred hours and you should be in the sweet spot


----------



## FlikFlac

About 175 to go..


----------



## FlikFlac

I wonder if I can tap in to Antipodes’ owners experience as to which of the following either/or scenarios they feel sounds best:

Use the supplied Ethernet cable or something else?
Supplied power cord or ‘proper’ power cord?
Plugged in to a mains conditioner (I have the AQ Niagara 1200) or direct to mains?
Supplied power supply or something else (barring the S20 for now)?
Use supplied feet or other vibration option (I have some Stillpoints at the moment)

Thanks in advance…


----------



## Whazzzup (Jun 26, 2021)

The only thing I haven’t gone down the rabbit hole with are feet thingies, and haven’t blown a load on power conditioners, ( although plenty have and seem to like it) but tried power cords that look like it would power up a aircraft carrier…..its athletics, it’s insurance, it all may help or seem like it might. But that’s just my humble and somewhat limited opinion.  I haven’t done any srx boxes or bnc stuff given my dac. But I’m I cable believer….I have no stock of anything.


----------



## FlikFlac

Whazzzup said:


> The only thing I haven’t gone down the rabbit hole with are feet thingies, and haven’t blown a load on power conditioners, ( although plenty have and seem to like it) but tried power cords that look like it would power up a aircraft carrier…..its athletics, it’s insurance, it all may help or seem like it might. But that’s just my humble and somewhat limited opinion.  I haven’t done any srx boxes or bnc stuff given my dac. But I’m I cable believer….I have no stock of anything.


I’d definitely buy a product if it was called ’Feet Thingies’, they’d have to be good, class…

I have Stillpoints under my TT2, but not the Mscaler as it didn’t seem to like them. I also have an AQ cable for the Niagara and a Naim Powerline for the amplifier and I’ve no doubt they make a difference to the overall sound.

I’ll probably play around with all the above scenarios once the S40 is settled.


----------



## naynay

Progisus said:


> Have you noticed the high pitch squeal when pausing or stopping a track on your EX? If allowed to finish there is no squeal.  I find if after a pause or stop I quickly play a non pggb track and then stop the squeal is gone.


Are you guys still experiencing this as I am currently using the SRC-DX playing PGGB files and not having any high pitch squeal when paused or stopped. I do if I go direct USB from EX to dac.


----------



## Triode User

naynay said:


> Are you guys still experiencing this as I am currently using the SRC-DX playing PGGB files and not having any high pitch squeal when paused or stopped. I do if I go direct USB from EX to dac.


It seems to be another reason to use the SRC-DX. It stops the high pitched squeal when MPD is stopped or paused on the Antipodes when playing high res files (705 / 768).

So just to answer your question, yes I am still experiencing the squeal but only when using MPD without the SRC-DX.

I am hoping / assuming that the new software slated for August will give me the opportunity to use Squeezelite for the PGGB file playback as well as MPD.


----------



## kennyb123

FlikFlac said:


> Use the supplied Ethernet cable or something else?
> Supplied power cord or ‘proper’ power cord?
> Plugged in to a mains conditioner (I have the AQ Niagara 1200) or direct to mains?
> Supplied power supply or something else (barring the S20 for now)?
> Use supplied feet or other vibration option (I have some Stillpoints at the moment)



All these things matter - but obviously to varying degrees.  I wouldn’t hesitate to go with an S60 at some point.  If you plan to stick with the supply that came with it - definitely plug it into your conditioner.  A really good choice of power cord in that case would be the Shunyata Venom V14 Digital.  This includes a special filter to reduce the noise switching mode power supplies generate.  I’ve never seen that power supply - so I am making a leap here in terms of thinking there’s a way to use the V14D with it.  And yes to Stillpoints under it.


----------



## naynay

Triode User said:


> It seems to be another reason to use the SRC-DX. It stops the high pitched squeal when MPD is stopped or paused on the Antipodes when playing high res files (705 / 768).
> 
> So just to answer your question, yes I am still experiencing the squeal but only when using MPD without the SRC-DX.
> 
> I am hoping / assuming that the new software slated for August will give me the opportunity to use Squeezelite for the PGGB file playback as well as MPD.


I thought Progisus was using the SRC-DX when he reported this high pitched squeal that's why I commented?


----------



## Progisus

naynay said:


> I thought Progisus was using the SRC-DX when he reported this high pitched squeal that's why I commented?


I have reconfigured my system. I now use the EX as roon core and play to usbridge sig through the ethernet port. That then connects to src-dx and tt2. This prevents testing for the squeal with mpd. I have also moved hqplayer to a powerful desktop to allow the use of poly-sinc-guass-xla for streaming. I am content using roon/hqplayer for pggb playback.


----------



## Triode User

naynay said:


> I thought Progisus was using the SRC-DX when he reported this high pitched squeal that's why I commented?


From his reply I see he can't now test for that in his new configuration but I have tried quite a few different ways with the SRC-DX and on different customers systems and have sold ten SRC-DX in the last couple of weeks with no pause /stop squeals (except squeals of delight  ). Hope this helps.


----------



## frankensmurf (Jun 30, 2021)

kennyb123 said:


> All these things matter - but obviously to varying degrees.  I wouldn’t hesitate to go with an S60 at some point.  If you plan to stick with the supply that came with it - definitely plug it into your conditioner.  A really good choice of power cord in that case would be the Shunyata Venom V14 Digital.  This includes a special filter to reduce the noise switching mode power supplies generate.  I’ve never seen that power supply - so I am making a leap here in terms of thinking there’s a way to use the V14D with it.  And yes to Stillpoints under it.


I would agree.. I have a CX and EX. These are different in that they have a built-in power supply, so big IEC power cords are an option.. A few sounded fine, and a couple sounded bad. So definitely worth trying. I can't speak to the burn-in in your OP as I bought both of mine used... but I would certainly leave music playing all the time until you get to a couple hundred hours. I would also not hesitate to trust your ears. Burn-in *can* be a thing but it doesn't mean that it *must* be a thing, that the sound changes fundamentally over however many dozen hours. I tend to think it is less so with purely digital components, but of course, I'm sure someone will have had experience that obviates that.

In terms of your overall balance, (I know the TT2 and it can be forward / rambunctious in the good sense) I would start with some USB cables.. in my experience this (in addition to power cables) has been the most maddening variable in system tuning. Try a few, I'll bet it changes the spectral balance as much as speaker positioning or toe-in did. I ended up with the Curious Cable over AQ Diamond (harsh) and AQ Coffee (listenable but not as detailed).

Power always matters, I have my whole front-end plugged into a PS Audio P5 which for me reduced noise floor and removed the 'what time of day is it' variability.

I haven't experimented with footers.. one would hope that with a g-d computer it doesn't make a difference but of course it might.

As @kennyb123 mentioned, you can def plug the wall wart into your power conditioner; but experiment - some wall warts are loading a bunch of noise back into the AC, and depending on how your conditioner is designed it might impact your other components. For kicks, try plugging it (and any other SMPSs) into a wall jack, on a different circuit if possible. You may end up with an intolerable ground loop hum, or you may not.

And lastly (and apologies in advance) ethernet cables do make a difference; but in my experience an order of magnitude larger difference can be had from a switch that cleans the electrical / switching noise from your ethernet line coming into your server. I have had great experience with the Uptone EtherRegen, which is quite affordable compared to a few other kilobuck switches out there. Adding a LPSU to the EtherRegen ups the sound quality, as does adding a second in series. Commence eye-rolling.

And, given that your system seems fairly high-end, don't accept the concept that you're 'done' with the S60... I've just spent a couple months optimizing my digital front-end, not changing anything from the preamp onward (OK, except power cables) and the system is almost unrecognizably better. For instance, adding a second EtherRegen made a noticeable difference, and [cue the Innuos haters] the Innuos Phoenix, not an inexpensive box, was a big improvement as well. Of course the major upgrade was the Mola Mola Tambaqui, which is stunning, dynamic, transparent, etc.; but NOT immune at all to (the various aforementioned) improvements upstream.


----------



## kennyb123

frankensmurf said:


> In terms of your overall balance, (I know the TT2 and it can be forward / rambunctious in the good sense) I would start with some USB cables.. in my experience this (in addition to power cables) has been the most maddening variable in system tuning. Try a few, I'll bet it changes the spectral balance as much as speaker positioning or toe-in did. I ended up with the Curious Cable over AQ Diamond (harsh) and AQ Coffee (listenable but not as detailed).


I agree that a USB cable is a good place to start.  And yeah it can be a hassle to land on the right one.  I try to avoid any that alter the spectral balance.  I prefer that they disappear.  The Sablon seems to be held in high regard.  Also I think the Lush^2 offers a great bang for the buck.

As far as power cords, I'm a big believer in using the same power cord throughout as this helps with achieve more predictable results.  Earlier this year I replaced each of my Shunyata's Alpha HCs (which were in use on everything) to Shunyata Delta v2.  I did this incrementally with my K30 being the last to receive the Delta v2.  How well it responded really surprised me.  All the benefits I heard each step of the way could be heard when I swapped that final cord.


----------



## FlikFlac

Thanks @kennyb123, @frankensmurf 



frankensmurf said:


> I ended up with the Curious Cable


Should have mentioned this, I’m also using a Curious USB cable…

I‘ve played around with power, so far I have settled on using the high current socket on the AQ 1200 and the OEM power cord which I preferred over old (30+ years) Russ Andrew’s powerkords I have lying around. Will try some different cables going forward…



frankensmurf said:


> given that your system seems fairly high-end,


Lol, what a hobby this is, £20k+ of hardware is only fairly high-end. At least there are still plenty of upgrades to come 😀

Overall, I’m really settling in to the sound, which seems more listenable(?) which to me means it is easier to get lost in the music as there are fewer things to distract you and force the realisation that it’s just a recording. Which is what I’m after.

Next up I think will be power related for the server… S20 and/or power cords…

Thanks


----------



## Progisus

Triode User said:


> From his reply I see he can't now test for that in his new configuration but I have tried quite a few different ways with the SRC-DX and on different customers systems and have sold ten SRC-DX in the last couple of weeks with no pause /stop squeals (except squeals of delight  ). Hope this helps.


After reconfiguring my system yet again (ocd I guess), I can confirm no squeal when using MPD and SRC-DX. I use Rigelian as a controller and mpd ver 0.22.4 .


----------



## Triode User

Progisus said:


> After reconfiguring my system yet again (ocd I guess), I can confirm no squeal when using MPD and SRC-DX. I use Rigelian as a controller and mpd ver 0.22.4 .



Cool!

I can only dream of 0.22.4 and am on 0.20.20 on the K50! Roll on August for the new software.


----------



## kennyb123

Triode User said:


> I can only dream of 0.22.4 and am on 0.20.20 on the K50! Roll on August for the new software.


I’m trying to keep my expectations in check.  It’s really difficult to meet dates with software releases.  

I will be looking forward to which configurations folks favor once the latest updates are installed.  I’ve continued to roll with HQP for PGGB’d tracks and Roon/HQP for everything else.  I‘ll be eager to hear MPD and Squeeze playing PGGB‘s tracks.


----------



## Triode User

kennyb123 said:


> I’m trying to keep my expectations in check.  It’s really difficult to meet dates with software releases.
> 
> I will be looking forward to which configurations folks favor once the latest updates are installed.  I’ve continued to roll with HQP for PGGB’d tracks and Roon/HQP for everything else.  I‘ll be eager to hear MPD and Squeeze playing PGGB‘s tracks.


Yes it will be interesting. As you will have read elsewhere, I favour MPD above HQP for PGGB. For non pggb tracks and streaming i either use the MScaler fed by MPD or just MPD direct to the dc4 dave (using the SRC.DX with both to convert the USB to bnc).

Innuos were 4 weeks late with their new 2.0 app and software and it would be great if Antipodes have no greater slippage.


----------



## Triode User (Jul 5, 2021)

Hey guys, Antipodes have announced the CX and EX Oladra upgrade path!

https://antipodes.audio/antipodes-u...asBdXHePBxiDuit1rhpzEolM8LbPTErPoRgEMYXKa7yps

This includes the upgrade to 3.1 software and so I wonder if the software upgrade is imminent for the K series?


----------



## Whazzzup

No DX upgrade path sniff sniff…. Lolz


----------



## Progisus

Triode User said:


> Hey guys, Antipodes have announced the CX and EX Oladra upgrade path!
> 
> https://antipodes.audio/antipodes-u...asBdXHePBxiDuit1rhpzEolM8LbPTErPoRgEMYXKa7yps
> 
> This includes the upgrade to 3.1 software and so I wonder if the software upgrade is imminent for the K series?


I wonder if they will do the software upgrade even for those EX CX owners not upgrading hardware?


----------



## cczero17 (Jul 5, 2021)

I wonder if HQplayer will be affected on an upgraded CX? Will I loose it?


----------



## kennyb123

Whazzzup said:


> No DX upgrade path sniff sniff…. Lolz


They have an option for you:  “If you would like to trade-in any Antipodes music server on a new OLADRA model, or if you would like a run-out offer on a P1 or P2, please use the same form and add your request in the "Additional Comments" field.”


----------



## richardloh

frankensmurf said:


> I would agree.. I have a CX and EX. These are different in that they have a built-in power supply, so big IEC power cords are an option.. A few sounded fine, and a couple sounded bad. So definitely worth trying. I can't speak to the burn-in in your OP as I bought both of mine used... but I would certainly leave music playing all the time until you get to a couple hundred hours. I would also not hesitate to trust your ears. Burn-in *can* be a thing but it doesn't mean that it *must* be a thing, that the sound changes fundamentally over however many dozen hours. I tend to think it is less so with purely digital components, but of course, I'm sure someone will have had experience that obviates that.
> 
> In terms of your overall balance, (I know the TT2 and it can be forward / rambunctious in the good sense) I would start with some USB cables.. in my experience this (in addition to power cables) has been the most maddening variable in system tuning. Try a few, I'll bet it changes the spectral balance as much as speaker positioning or toe-in did. I ended up with the Curious Cable over AQ Diamond (harsh) and AQ Coffee (listenable but not as detailed).
> 
> ...



Hi,

I am an ER user to stream internet radio stations in my 24/7 system with CX and EX stack and if you are using one, do consider the Afterdark 10Mhz clock:

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/59419-master-clock-for-your-etherregen/page/60/

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/etherregen-with-an-afterdark-ocxo-clock-wow/161630

I first had the ex and added the cx but the SQ improvement is insignificant compared to having the ER and AD clock.

Cheers !


----------



## frankensmurf

Triode User said:


> Hey guys, Antipodes have announced the CX and EX Oladra upgrade path!
> 
> https://antipodes.audio/antipodes-u...asBdXHePBxiDuit1rhpzEolM8LbPTErPoRgEMYXKa7yps
> 
> This includes the upgrade to 3.1 software and so I wonder if the software upgrade is imminent for the K series?


Very interesting.. This is not an inexpensive upgrade at USD$2k per box. It really begs the question of whether your money might be better spent, say, keeping your CX intact, and adding an S30 as a renderer. Is the S30 50% better (holding the CX constant) for the addl 1k US?

Presumably the trade-in offer includes CX and EX so perhaps this might be the better option? Do we know what kind of trade-in credit they might offer? And would they require that it was purchased retail or would they honour the offer on models purchased on the used market?

I'd be very interested to hear (a rough approximation) from Antipodes as to the relative merits of upgrading an EX, CX, or both vs buying newer S equivalents.


----------



## Triode User

frankensmurf said:


> Very interesting.. This is not an inexpensive upgrade at USD$2k per box. It really begs the question of whether your money might be better spent, say, keeping your CX intact, and adding an S30 as a renderer. Is the S30 50% better (holding the CX constant) for the addl 1k US?
> 
> Presumably the trade-in offer includes CX and EX so perhaps this might be the better option? Do we know what kind of trade-in credit they might offer? And would they require that it was purchased retail or would they honour the offer on models purchased on the used market?
> 
> I'd be very interested to hear (a rough approximation) from Antipodes as to the relative merits of upgrading an EX, CX, or both vs buying newer S equivalents.


They apparently have had problems being able to post on here themselves so if you are able to ask that question direct to them by email and update fellow users on here it may be that many would be interested in their thoughts.


----------



## Progisus

If they don’t offer the 3.1 software as an online update it is lucky I’m sitting with 2.8. I suspect HQPlayer will soon be past the instruction set in the celeron processor. I doubt I would take the upgrade offer as pggb has provided such a massive upgrade to these old ears. I know @Whazzzup had his DX upgraded previously and reported it was worth it. For me the EX is already a fabulous renderer.
I wonder if they are breaking ties with sonicorbiter?


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> I wonder if they are breaking ties with sonicorbiter?


Seems so.  SonicOrbiter still appears to be under the hood on the 3.0 the installed apps page.  It’s just that it had only been partially implemented as the update feature is missing.  My guess is that this goes away completely and Antipodes own code replaces this.  We won’t know for sure until 3.1 is released.  I hope Antipodes might start soon offering teasers about what’s coming.


----------



## cczero17

Progisus said:


> If they don’t offer the 3.1 software as an online update it is lucky I’m sitting with 2.8. I suspect HQPlayer will soon be past the instruction set in the celeron processor. I doubt I would take the upgrade offer as pggb has provided such a massive upgrade to these old ears. I know @Whazzzup had his DX upgraded previously and reported it was worth it. For me the EX is already a fabulous renderer.
> I wonder if they are breaking ties with sonicorbiter?


Hey,

Theres lots that you state that is way over my head lol....Whats your thoughts on HQplayer and the new upgrade? Wasnt sure what you meant. Im looking to upgrade both my CX and EX and as you know I have HQplayer also


----------



## worknprogress

I do not believe the update feature will be returning.   I asked about it during a very helpful remote session and was told it would not become available and instead that updates would be pushed out by Antipodes.   I had previously been using a SonicTransporter i5 CDR.  Similar to My Antipodes, you can view and manage Antipodes server and players still on sonicorbiter.com.  As an aside, I have Norton 360 security suite and was unable to manage via My Antipodes or sonicorbiter.com unless I disconnected the VPN option on Norton.   I have gone with shutting all other browser tabs other than My Antipodes or sonicorbiter.com when disconnecting the VPN.  I reconnect when I am finished looking or managing via those sites.   I do not know if this happens with other VPN software.


----------



## Whazzzup

Progisus said:


> If they don’t offer the 3.1 software as an online update it is lucky I’m sitting with 2.8. I suspect HQPlayer will soon be past the instruction set in the celeron processor. I doubt I would take the upgrade offer as pggb has provided such a massive upgrade to these old ears. I know @Whazzzup had his DX upgraded previously and reported it was worth it. For me the EX is already a fabulous renderer.
> I wonder if they are breaking ties with sonicorbiter?


Actually i got upgraded from a GT DS to a DX, but that's history. So with that comp, and I really like DX as it is, i will look admirably at K consumers just to see what's what. But if this server can last forever, it will.


----------



## Progisus (Jul 5, 2021)

cczero17 said:


> Hey,
> 
> Theres lots that you state that is way over my head lol....Whats your thoughts on HQplayer and the new upgrade? Wasnt sure what you meant. Im looking to upgrade both my CX and EX and as you know I have HQplayer also


What I ranted was a bit of a mess. My comment on hqplayer was for running on the EX only. The EX uses a celeron processor. There were issues on one of the hqplayer upgrades when Jussi used an instruction set incompatible with the celeron. Antipodes worked with him to revert to the older instruction set. He had recently done this again but reverted back pretty quickly. As his software evolves I see this becoming a permanent issue for the celeron. As you run hqplayer from the CX with it’s more advanced cpu there should be no issue. I will move hqplayer to a desktop when this happens. It just sounds a bit better when operating from the EX. He has some great filters now that need high power cpu. I am not sure even the CX could run those. Poly-sinc-guass-xla for instance.

Time to move aside and let the K and S boys take over.


----------



## richardloh

Triode User said:


> Hey guys, Antipodes have announced the CX and EX Oladra upgrade path!
> 
> https://antipodes.audio/antipodes-u...asBdXHePBxiDuit1rhpzEolM8LbPTErPoRgEMYXKa7yps
> 
> This includes the upgrade to 3.1 software and so I wonder if the software upgrade is imminent for the K series?



Hey Triode,

Thanks for the share .. had been waiting for this latest Oladra upgrades since aware of the new K series ... 9 mths back ?

Indeed usd2k/box for my cx and ex is more expensive than expected but:

- I am still a supporter of Mark and his Antipodes and grateful for their online team session suport
- wanting the latest and greatest
- wanting blue led power switches which photo will show why .. I had all my equipment done so with great effort but not Antipodes

I should be able to share the SQ improvement in near future  but I really cannot imagine how much more than after adding the AD clock with cheaply zerozone lps for my online streaming internet stations predominantly with 24/7 playback.

Cheers.

Richard


----------



## cczero17

Progisus said:


> What I ranted was a bit of a mess. My comment on hqplayer was for running on the EX only. The EX uses a celeron processor. There were issues on one of the hqplayer upgrades when Jussi used an instruction set incompatible with the celeron. Antipodes worked with him to revert to the older instruction set. He had recently done this again but reverted back pretty quickly. As his software evolves I see this becoming a permanent issue for the celeron. As you run hqplayer from the CX with it’s more advanced cpu there should be no issue. I will move hqplayer to a desktop when this happens. It just sounds a bit better when operating from the EX. He has some great filters now that need high power cpu. I am not sure even the CX could run those. Poly-sinc-guass-xla for instance.
> 
> Time to move aside and let the K and S boys take over.


I see 😁.

Someone asked the question about performance of the upgraded CX/EX and how it compares. Antipodes believe it would be about 80/90 % of the K50....and being that the K50 is supposed to be way better than the Solution" in it's current guise, it sounds like a good deal. You still think there would be processor issues? PCM filters were running around 5/7% so have a lot of headroom for more complex filters. DSD on the other hand was around 30/40% for the same Sinc-L filter


----------



## kennyb123

richardloh said:


> wanting blue led power switches which photo will show why .. I had all my equipment done so with great effort but not Antipodes



I want that too for the same reason.  My previous server was an Innuos Zenith.  The only feature I miss from that server was the ability to change the LED color by just selecting the desired option.  I wish every component offered the ability to do that.


----------



## Whazzzup

2 g upgrade versus 17G? Well I’d do the k50 if money is no object, but that’s not as often for the masses as they would like.


----------



## richardloh (Jul 6, 2021)

Whazzzup said:


> 2 g upgrade versus 17G? Well I’d do the k50 if money is no object, but that’s not as often for the masses as they would like.


Hi whazzup,

It should be 2k+2k or 4k vs 15k K50 ?

Worse case of 80% or 12k or 8k for current cx+ex is not too bad a deal or I had miscalculated ?

But I do get my blue/amber leds switch and since when this crazy hiend/no-end audio eqmt makes sense ? 😄

Cheers.

Richard


----------



## Whazzzup (Jul 6, 2021)

Personally from my past experience with antipodes servers and by past, it may or may not reflect current level of sound quality improvements from past models to k series Because I have no idea About Cx, ex, s, k…but the 80% rule is just that, justification of price versus quality. If money isn’t an object then flat out go for the 100% and new model. I’m sure everyone will be happy with the upgrade, but probably happier with k if not thin on the wallet. Just my experience getting comp a DX. Lastly just to be sure, not dissing the upgrade, I’d be torn, all things considered. Do nothing, upgrade, or new


----------



## richardloh (Jul 6, 2021)

For me, I had not seen anywhere 20% of each generation of brand's statement products ... else it should be 100-200% from my 2 decades into this no end hobby.

And I do need to get rid of the green led achieved with the upgrade and also not willing to continue the chase of another almost 8-10k but continue to try new stuff, for example, my successful venture into ER, 10Mhz clock etc.😅

Cheers.

Richard


----------



## Progisus

PGGB has provided me with the most dramatic increase in sound quality since I started down the audiophile path 50 years ago. I think my upgrade money will be spent on purchasing new/old tunes and pggb’ing them.


----------



## richardloh

Hi,

For ethernet "treatments" e.g. ER and AD 10Mhz clock with the CX and EX stack, does it make sense to have them before cx sever or between the cx and ex ?

Both experience and theoretical reasons included will be appreciated.

I could test it out but not sure if worth the efforts and cost to re-run from current "treatments" before the cx.

Cheers.

Richard


----------



## kennyb123

richardloh said:


> For ethernet "treatments" e.g. ER and AD 10Mhz clock with the CX and EX stack, does it make sense to have them before cx sever or between the cx and ex ?



Antipodes doesn’t say much about their ”direct stream” Ethernet outputs.  Certainly the CX itself has had care taken to reduce noise so, as with the USB output, I’d imagine the Ethernet out is also low in noise.  The ER aims to block leakage current and where that benefits most is the closest to the DAC.  So that would argue for placing it between the CX and EX.  But if leakage current is stopped before the CX, all devices that follow would benefit from not being harmed by leakage.  I think I’d opt for placing it in front of the CX.


----------



## Presence (Jul 6, 2021)

richardloh said:


> Hi,
> 
> For ethernet "treatments" e.g. ER and AD 10Mhz clock with the CX and EX stack, does it make sense to have them before cx sever or between the cx and ex ?
> 
> ...


I currently use two ERs, a Mutec Ref 120SE and a Innuous Phoenix USB Regen.
Pertaining to ER, I found the biggest difference between CX and EX considering most of my playback was from CX-based library. Later I added a second for streaming to the CX.
I actually have three as for a long time I tandemed two between CX and EX but redeployed one for the cable box.
I also added a Baaske Medical MI 1005 Network Isolator from ER to EX and got another ~10% bump in relaxed presentation.
The external 10MHz reference to the ER will give a 10-15% bump in SQ as well.
I started with a BG7TBL type from China. In my opinion you might find something at a fraction of the cost that will get you to 70% of the Ref 120 SQ...

Antipodes CX > Uptone ER > Antipodes EX > Innuous Phoenix USB > SingXer SU-2 > i2S > Audio GD R8HE   Mutec Ref 120SE> ERs, SingXer SU-2


----------



## richardloh (Jul 7, 2021)

kennyb123 said:


> Antipodes doesn’t say much about their ”direct stream” Ethernet outputs.  Certainly the CX itself has had care taken to reduce noise so, as with the USB output, I’d imagine the Ethernet out is also low in noise.  The ER aims to block leakage current and where that benefits most is the closest to the DAC.  So that would argue for placing it between the CX and EX.  But if leakage current is stopped before the CX, all devices that follow would benefit from not being harmed by leakage.  I think I’d opt for placing it in front of the CX.



Hi Kenny,

Make sense on having goodies upfront before any "damage" into cx but I was also thinking that ER with the Afterdark double crown clock also helps the ethernet link into the ex player with more accurate clock in addition to leakage to cx (and downstream components as you also mentioned) which may be lost if before the cx server. Uptone had also seemingly recommends to the last component before the dac which will then be between the cx and ex.

Truth to be said to my ears, the Antipodes are not that specialised and needed help from ER and AD clock else I would NOT have found such  significant improvement first with ER and then more so with the AD clock.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts but it will be crazy to add another setup usd2k of ER and AD clock 🤦‍♂️.

Cheers.

Richard


----------



## kennyb123

richardloh said:


> Make sense but I was also thinking that ER with the Afterdark double crown clock also helps the ethernet link into the ex player with more accurate clock in addition to leakage to cx (and downstream components as you also mentioned) which may be lost if before the cx server. Uptone had also seemingly recommends to the last component before the dac which will then be between the cx and ex.



Very true that Uptone recommends it be in front of the last component before the DAC.  Yeah certainly a strong argument for using it between the CX and EX.

The nice thing about placing it there and not in front of the CX is that the link speed to the CX can remain gigabit, which helps a lot when copying files over to the network to the storage on the CX.  My only gripe with the ER is the 100mbps bandwidth on the B side.  It’s s very minor gripe though.


----------



## andrewd01

Only providing a one month window to decide on this $4k upgrade is a bit ridiculous in my opinion.  I don’t have budget for it now.
I am also very happy with the sound of my system since adding the CX and don’t feel the need to continue throwing more money at it.


----------



## cczero17

Having been in contact with Mark, I will be sending my CX/EX off for the upgrades 👍


----------



## richardloh (Jul 7, 2021)

andrewd01 said:


> Only providing a one month window to decide on this $4k upgrade is a bit ridiculous in my opinion.  I don’t have budget for it now.
> I am also very happy with the sound of my system since adding the CX and don’t feel the need to continue throwing more money at it.


Hi Andrew,

Not sure how the upgrade measures up on "80-90%" of K50 but I can highly recommend the ER and AD or other 10Mhz clock e.g. BG7TBL type from China as mentioned by Presence if not proceeding with the upgrade.

In fact, I resigned to the possibility that is will NOT have significant improvement after usd4k for my main use for streaming internet radio stations with already ER and AD clock installed which the upgrade may be addressing but hope playback from my 2X4TB library in the CX will improve to urge me to listen more of the library.

I waited and need to get blue leds which Mark will help me to achieve and the new 2 yrs warranty is very welcomed ... lol !

Your monies and your own decision to be made.

Cheers.

Richard

PS: waiting for appointed service provider to pick up my ex and cx


----------



## richardloh (Jul 7, 2021)

richardloh said:


> Truth to be said to my ears, the Antipodes are not that specialised and needed help from ER and AD clock else I would NOT have found such  significant improvement first with ER and then more so with the AD clock.



Just to add and I do not know what is wrong with my setup but I find streaming from full flac internet stations or some 192kbps e.g.The Wave - Relax, MRTI jazz etc. to sound more expansive and organic i.e. more enjoyable than playback from full flac and dsd library of 2x4TB SSD in the cx 🤔🤔

Anyone with similar experience and had successful fix(es) ?

Cheers.


----------



## Triode User

It seems that all new servers will be shipped with the new 3.1 software from 19 July and that by the end of July we will receive advice on how to complete a remote upgrade to existing devices.

Great news. I guess that @Kapiti and the team at Antipodes have been very busy.

I am very excited!!! Not long now for my nice K50.


----------



## burbster

Hi, maybe not the best place to post this as you guys already own an Antipodes server of some description, but in case you know anyone who wants a CX and EX I am selling mine, here is the link.

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/antipodes-cx-and-ex-music-server-streamer-package.7553/


----------



## Pashmeister

Hi Everyone, I just got the SRC-DX connected via Dual BNC to my TT2. I noticed that the volume significantly decreased and found myself cranking up the volume of my TT2 and tube preamp to go back to listening levels. Is this normal?


----------



## Progisus

Pashmeister said:


> Hi Everyone, I just got the SRC-DX connected via Dual BNC to my TT2. I noticed that the volume significantly decreased and found myself cranking up the volume of my TT2 and tube preamp to go back to listening levels. Is this normal?


Which Antipodes are you using? There is a command that can be used to boost the level when the SRC is attached. I can look it up for you. I had shared it with Dan Mance at Audiowize when Antipodes helped me with the issue.


----------



## Progisus

Here it is….


Try this first ...

In the browser address bar type the IP Address of the EX, followed by /app_dacdiag.php:






Then  click 'Set DAC to MAX volume'.

See if this resolves the problem for you.


----------



## Triode User

Just to say that there is a quick video on the Antipodes web site outlining the main features of 3.1. 

It has a similar look and feel to 3.0 but my main hope is that it will enable us to use up to date versions of the server and player apps rather than the out of date ones enabled within 3.0. The mention of regular overnight updates being automatically pushed to the Antipodes devices using 3.1 raises my hopes that this will be the case.

See here for the quick overview video.
https://antipodes.audio/antipodes-guides.php


----------



## andrewd01

burbster said:


> Hi, maybe not the best place to post this as you guys already own an Antipodes server of some description, but in case you know anyone who wants a CX and EX I am selling mine, here is the link.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/antipodes-cx-and-ex-music-server-streamer-package.7553/


That’s a great price for the pair!


----------



## andrewd01

Pashmeister said:


> Hi Everyone, I just got the SRC-DX connected via Dual BNC to my TT2. I noticed that the volume significantly decreased and found myself cranking up the volume of my TT2 and tube preamp to go back to listening levels. Is this normal?


I had the exact same problem when I tested the SRC-DX.  I think I was the first Antipodes customer to try SRc-Dx so Dan had to trouble shoot with Antipodes support.  After a couple of weeks the solution posted by Progsius was suggested and this worked.


----------



## andrewd01

Triode User said:


> Just to say that there is a quick video on the Antipodes web site outlining the main features of 3.1.
> 
> It has a similar look and feel to 3.0 but my main hope is that it will enable us to use up to date versions of the server and player apps rather than the out of date ones enabled within 3.0. The mention of regular overnight updates being automatically pushed to the Antipodes devices using 3.1 raises my hopes that this will be the case.
> 
> ...



I am hoping that my expensive audio servers don’t get made obsolete by software.  I expect a 15+ year service life from my investment.  I have reached the point where I am happy with the sound and don’t want to throw thousands more at the system every two years to have the absolute latest.

I would like to hear from Antipodes how they plan to provide long term software support for CX/EX customers who don’t want to upgrade the hardware for $4000 (especially given the comically short timeframe available to decide on the hardware upgrade). 

Its like buying an Apple Mac Pro for £10,000 and then finding out that after two years it is no longer capable of installing the latest OS, which then means all of the software apps won’t work.  

Roon needs to take this into account too.  Future front end applications must be backward compatible with older versions of the core, and there must be the option to disable further upgrades instead of being shouted at to upgrade the core every time you use the software.


----------



## Progisus

andrewd01 said:


> I am hoping that my expensive audio servers don’t get made obsolete by software.  I expect a 15+ year service life from my investment.  I have reached the point where I am happy with the sound and don’t want to throw thousands more at the system every two years to have the absolute latest.
> 
> I would like to hear from Antipodes how they plan to provide long term software support for CX/EX customers who don’t want to upgrade the hardware for $4000 (especially given the comically short timeframe available to decide on the hardware upgrade).
> 
> ...


I built a Heathkit AR1500 in the 70’s. I see some are still used today. The short lifespan of computer based audio today is unfortunate. The easy upgrades during its life sometimes make up for it though. I believe a piece of computer based audio equipment should remain useable once the updates stop. On the other hand if one invests in software only, the obsolescence is implied and expected.


----------



## Whazzzup

I was shocked to check our iMacs , 2011 and 2014 purchased. Time flies, gear getting 6 years and counting, all seems tickidy boo. Course no Hq player yet nor PGGB, but ignorance at this level is still bliss.


----------



## andrewd01 (Jul 13, 2021)

I stupidly bought a Mac Pro in 2009.  It is loaded with 32Gb Ram and SSD’s etc and runs the existing apps well.  Apple basically expects you to throw these machines in landfill after 5 years.  OS updates are blocked despite the machine easily being able to handle it.  This stops you adding new software.  Forget about using the latest digital cameras.

I fear that audio servers will also become victim of planned obsolescence for no other reason than to try and sell you the latest machine for another £10k.


----------



## kennyb123

andrewd01 said:


> I stupidly bought a Mac Pro in 2009. It is loaded with 32Gb Ram and SSD’s etc and runs the existing apps well. Apple basically expects you to throw these machines in landfill after 5 years. OS updates are blocked despite the machine easily being able to handle it. This stops you adding new software. Forget about using the latest digital cameras.
> 
> I fear that audio servers will also become victim of planned obsolescence for no other reason that to try and sell you the latest machine for another £10k.


Computers are still in the growth phase of the product life cycle.  Obsolescence occurs at a much more rapid pace when advancement occur at a much more rapid pace. Compare that to a mature product - like any analog component and you rarely get any ability at all to advance it beyond what you initially paid for.

My 2010 Mac Pro has gained a new purpose with PGGB and it’s been doing the job exceptionally well.  

I think it’s up to the buyer to plan obsolescence into their thinking about their initial investment.  No way I would have invested $10k in a server 5 years ago as things were advancing too quickly.  There’s still a risk that 3 years from now something that sells for half the price will be introduced that outperforms what I spent $10k on. But the risk of that is lower than it would have been 5 years ago.  And most likely it’ll even be lower 5 years from now.


----------



## andrewd01

I am not concerned that there will be better sounding products on the market in the future, this is almost certain.  I am concerned that the products I have will be rendered inoperable due to software incompatibility issues.  As long as the existing versions of the software work I am happy, but I see a potential risk that Tidal will stop working unless you use Roon version X, and if you can’t upgrade to Roon X because your hardware is restricted to operating system Y you then become the owner of a very expensive brick.

I began thinking about this because I understand that you can’t upgrade CX/EX to 3.x OS unless you also do a hardware update. Perhaps I am wrong on this?  Even if not, I hope that the designers of audio server hardware and associated software give some consideration to the long term operability of their products. Perhaps @Kapiti can comment?


----------



## Whazzzup

Don't worry about roon its own nuc is moderate, and they depend on a vast array of common systems. Now in a decade or two who knows, and damn it im riding my DX into the friggen sunset ......)


----------



## frankensmurf

Hi all. Apologies for the extremely delayed responses but a number of things I want to comment on. So with apologies for the giant message: 




Triode User said:


> Hey guys, Antipodes have announced the CX and EX Oladra upgrade path!
> 
> https://antipodes.audio/antipodes-u...asBdXHePBxiDuit1rhpzEolM8LbPTErPoRgEMYXKa7yps
> 
> This includes the upgrade to 3.1 software and so I wonder if the software upgrade is imminent for the K series?


Like others I hope these upgrades are made available at least to latest models (i.e. CX/EX). The new sw looks mostly like a (needed) UX redesign to me, it's literally all web application based, and I cannot think of any reason that it could not be ported to almost any relatively recent (i.e. a decade) computer hardware.



richardloh said:


> Hi whazzup,
> 
> It should be 2k+2k or 4k vs 15k K50 ?
> 
> ...


So let's think about the math on this: In my case I own a (non-upgraded) CX/EX set. They have residual value -- the CX more than the EX. So when I look at an estimate of their residual value on the used market (or Antipodess upgrade program) I think the better value is in getting the new equipment. Why?

Firstly, the K50 is the wrong comparison. K50 = CX + EX + P2, plus the convenience of a single chassis (which also means a single power cords, fewer expensive ethernet and USB cables, etc). As I understand it, the new S series is a closer way to approximate the multi-box approach of the CX/EX. 

Secondly, what we are upgrading here is a computer. As @kennyb123 points out re: his Mac, and as we all know, computers and cell phones age out of their useful life extremely quickly. Let's not conflate these devices with (traditional analog) audio equipment even though they are audio-specific. I would consider upgrading, say, a 5-yr old Pass Labs preamp, because the functions provided by preamps have changed very little in the last 25 years (perhaps the more widespread presence of balanced inputs and outputs? remote control?) and we are looking at (in the grand scheme of things) subtle improvements based on better parts, better circuit design, etc. 
Unlike our preamp, this computer is subject to a whole ton of specific constraints which exist within the hardware lifecycle of a Celeron chip, software standards that change quarter by quarter, and whole new paradigms arriving every few years. (Does your $25k CD player from 2003 server as a Roon endpoint? No. Does your $25k preamp from the same year work? absolutely)

Soo I am less inclined to plow money into this kind of upgrade. But if I were closer to being 'done' (famous last words) with my digital front-end I might be inclined. 

Soo back to some arithmetic: (all USD)
- CX / EX upgrade 4k 
- keep CX, sell EX (assume 1500 USD) , buy S30 = net 1500  (is this better or worse than the upgraded CX/EX?)
- keep CX, sell EX, buy S30 + S60 = net 3.5k (same question) 
- sell both CX and EX (assume 1500 + 2500?) gives you 4k towards S40 + S30 (8k) or K40 (10k)

In either case I think the longer-term value of the CX and EX would be enhanced by expanding this very short upgrade period.



Progisus said:


> PGGB has provided me with the most dramatic increase in sound quality since I started down the audiophile path 50 years ago. I think my upgrade money will be spent on purchasing new/old tunes and pggb’ing them.


I have downloaded a trial license, and played with this a very little bit. I was very surprised to hear your characterization because, in my system (which is generally very revealing of relatively small changes like USB or power cables) the differences between standard redbook and PGGA'd redbook (I used Gardiner's 1986 Mozart Requiem which for me is a pinnacle of great performance paired with early digital sound that in the wrong system can be quite glary and harsh) were quite subtle, and I honestly couldn't pick one as better than the other. I used the standard settings (Natural Transparency, Transparent Presentation, Auto Taps) to create a 32 bit /352khz file. I also processed Alberto Iglesias's OST to 'Todo Sobre mi Madre', same settings. The result was similarly.. inconclusive.

At the time the system was:
ER / LPS 1.5 > AQ Cinnamon ethernet > CX > AQ Vodka ethernet > EX > Curious USB > Innuos Phoenix > Curious USB > P2 > PS Audio AC12 HDMI > Mola Mola Tambaqui > Acoustic Zen Silver Reference XLR > PS Audio BHK (Matsushita / National tubes) > Acoustic Zen > Matrix Ref II > Focal SM9 active pro monitors. Also in the system was an assortment of very expensive power cables (E2E, Nordost, Kubala Sosna, Audioquest, in addition to my AQ and PS Audio AC12s) on loan, suffice it to say that in combination they brought the system to crazy level of realism.

So this is fascinating.. @Progisus you seem to be using mostly Chord DACs, and various headphones/ IEMs. I'm assuming you heard similar increases in sound quality between all of them? Have you ever tried the M-Scaler with your TT2? That's the Chord DAC I've spent time with in my system. I'm wondering how @Progisus  or others with PGGB experience would compare it to the M-Scaler? I know it provides quite an increase, and my understanding is that the upsampling/processing provided by PGGB is fundamentally similar to the M-SCaler. 

On the other hand, the Tambaqui (as well as my other DAC the PS Audio DirectStream on Sunlight firmware), while similar to the Chords as far as having an FPGA, employ quite a different approach, upsampling to very high bitrate DSD (multi-bit for the Tambaqui single-bit for the DirectStream if memory serves). Perhaps the different approach renders them less positioned to realize a benefit from PGGB processing? Certainly they each have sphosticated upsampling and digital filtering well beyond my ability to characterize beyond the marketing copy.

Has anyone else tried PGGB in a revealing system and been unsure as to whether it's an improvement? (and if so what DAC were you using)

Am I missing something? Are there more settings I should be messing with?



kennyb123 said:


> Antipodes doesn’t say much about their ”direct stream” Ethernet outputs.  Certainly the CX itself has had care taken to reduce noise so, as with the USB output, I’d imagine the Ethernet out is also low in noise.  The ER aims to block leakage current and where that benefits most is the closest to the DAC.  So that would argue for placing it between the CX and EX.  But if leakage current is stopped before the CX, all devices that follow would benefit from not being harmed by leakage.  I think I’d opt for placing it in front of the CX.



I as always under the impression that the output on the CX is as quiet as they could make it. But as noted I don't know what technology this might employ. 

As for the EtherRegen, I want to clarify this terminology of 'between'... Given that the ER has 4 ports on the A side and 1 port on the B side the options are: 
"Before" Config: router > ethernet > ER B Side > ER A Side > ethernet > CX > ethernet > EX
"Between" Config: router > ethernet > CX > ethernet > ER B Side port 1 > ER A Side port > ethernet > EX
"Both" Config: router > ethernet > ER B Side port 1 > ER B Side port 2 > ethernet > CX  // ER A side > ethernet > EX

I am currently using the 'both' configuration. I haven't done extensive comparisons but logically the 'both' config makes sense to me. I was previously using the 'Before' configuration and I think the 'both' is perhaps 5% better. In my case the specific config is router > switch > in-wall ethernet CAT-7 > Amazon ethernet >  ER B Side port 1 > ER B Side port 2 > AQ Cinnamon > CX  // ER A side > AQ Vodka > EX


Not to muddy the waters but... an audio industry friend brought over Nordost Blue Heaven, Heimdall 2, and Valhalla 2 ethernet cables. We swapped them into the system (with the Tambaqui, but without some of the very high-end power cables I had previously in the system) between the ER A Side and the EX. The Blue Heaven was a slight increase over the Vodka. The Heimdall was a substantial increase, and the Valhalla, as reluctant as I might be to pay 3k for an ethernet cable (!) made perhaps as much of a difference as adding the ER in the first place.




Presence said:


> I currently use two ERs, a Mutec Ref 120SE and a Innuous Phoenix USB Regen.
> Pertaining to ER, I found the biggest difference between CX and EX considering most of my playback was from CX-based library. Later I added a second for streaming to the CX.
> I actually have three as for a long time I tandemed two between CX and EX but redeployed one for the cable box.
> I also added a Baaske Medical MI 1005 Network Isolator from ER to EX and got another ~10% bump in relaxed presentation.
> ...


This is an enviable chain. I have yet to try a clock, and am happy to hear that in your opinion a cheaper alternative to the Mutec might provide much of the benefit. I suspect I will obtain another ER first just because it is so affordable compared to clocks. Does anyone have a max price/performance choice for 10Mhzj clocks for ER? 

@Presence re: your SingXer SU-2, have you compared that to the Antipodes P2 or S20? Or the Matrix box? I have found both DACs I've used (Tambaqui and DirectStream) to sound better with HDMI input than USB (and also to be substantially less cable-dependent), but I have only used the P2 to convert USB to HDMI.




kennyb123 said:


> Very true that Uptone recommends it be in front of the last component before the DAC.  Yeah certainly a strong argument for using it between the CX and EX.
> 
> The nice thing about placing it there and not in front of the CX is that the link speed to the CX can remain gigabit, which helps a lot when copying files over to the network to the storage on the CX.  My only gripe with the ER is the 100mbps bandwidth on the B side.  It’s s very minor gripe though.


See my "between" config above -- this addresses the issue of maintaining gigabit to the CX while maximizing SQ to the EX. 



kennyb123 said:


> Computers are still in the growth phase of the product life cycle.  Obsolescence occurs at a much more rapid pace when advancement occur at a much more rapid pace. Compare that to a mature product - like any analog component and you rarely get any ability at all to advance it beyond what you initially paid for.
> 
> My 2010 Mac Pro has gained a new purpose with PGGB and it’s been doing the job exceptionally well.
> 
> I think it’s up to the buyer to plan obsolescence into their thinking about their initial investment.  No way I would have invested $10k in a server 5 years ago as things were advancing too quickly.  There’s still a risk that 3 years from now something that sells for half the price will be introduced that outperforms what I spent $10k on. But the risk of that is lower than it would have been 5 years ago.  And most likely it’ll even be lower 5 years from now.


Yes, I tend to agree; it's why I tend to buy expensive but not super-expensive computer configurations. For instance (this year) getting 32 gb of RAM, and even more importantly getting 2TB of SSD storage vs 512, gives you an extra year or two of usable life. But in the audio world, this is an unacceptable life cycle. Speakers that retail for $15k are not going to be useless in 3 yrs, or 15 yrs. 

Basically Moore's law still applies, plus or minus 30%, to computers and phones and anything else that has silicon processing power in it, or wifi or bluetooth connectivity, or storage with quantity or throughput implications.

Analog tech like amps, preamps, and speakers don't age at anywhere near this rate. And to a certain extent, closed-system digital like a CD player age more slowly than other digital tech, because of the huge iceberg of music available on silver redbook discs. 

DACs are nastier.. digital formats are changing.. at least in theory we should now care about DSD 256 and DSD 512, which few DACs support. "In theory" because in fact there is precious little media available, and from a market perspective it is difficult to imagine the broad market moving to these extremely bandwidth / storage-intensive formats. However, PCM high-res is now increasingly commonplace, both for download and streaming (very happy Qobuz user here, no MQA debates required). But still, a recent DAC can handle the _relevant_ formats for a period of whatever 5-8 years. 

_Streamers_ are, I guess, the nastiest. They are in fact computers, generally using standard parts from Intel et al adapted by enterprising and ingenious people like Aurender, Auralic, Antipodes, Innuos, Lumin, et al, to the demanding standards of audio (where suddenly you can't just use any SMPS, the noise on the ground of your USB output becomes anathema, etc). But while they are subject to the demands of traditional audio on the outputs, they are subject to Moore's law on processing power, inputs, operating systems.

Anyway end of lengthy message, cheers.


----------



## frankensmurf

andrewd01 said:


> I am hoping that my expensive audio servers don’t get made obsolete by software.  I expect a 15+ year service life from my investment.  I have reached the point where I am happy with the sound and don’t want to throw thousands more at the system every two years to have the absolute latest.
> 
> I would like to hear from Antipodes how they plan to provide long term software support for CX/EX customers who don’t want to upgrade the hardware for $4000 (especially given the comically short timeframe available to decide on the hardware upgrade).
> 
> ...


See my latest post.. Respectfully I don't think that Antipodes or anyone else can come near a 15-year service life. My guess is closer to 5.. I would budget accordingly.


----------



## 12grayclouds

andrewd01 said:


> I am not concerned that there will be better sounding products on the market in the future, this is almost certain.  I am concerned that the products I have will be rendered inoperable due to software incompatibility issues.  As long as the existing versions of the software work I am happy, but I see a potential risk that Tidal will stop working unless you use Roon version X, and if you can’t upgrade to Roon X because your hardware is restricted to operating system Y you then become the owner of a very expensive brick.
> 
> I began thinking about this because I understand that you can’t upgrade CX/EX to 3.x OS unless you also do a hardware update. Perhaps I am wrong on this?  Even if not, I hope that the designers of audio server hardware and associated software give some consideration to the long term operability of their products. Perhaps @Kapiti can comment?


You are incorrect, if you read the Antipodes website......AMSv3.1 will be installed on all EX and CX upgrades, and then on new shipments from 19 July 2021. We will advise how to upgrade to the new software at the end of July. It is our aim to get all Antipodes Music Server owners onto the latest software. Updates will then be pushed out automatically over-night to keep you up to date.

I think the key comment here is...
It is our aim to get all Antipodes Music Server owners onto the latest software. Updates will then be pushed out automatically over-night to keep you up to date.


----------



## Presence

frankensmurf said:


> Hi all. Apologies for the extremely delayed responses but a number of things I want to comment on. So with apologies for the giant message:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Presence

Quote:
"@Presence re: your SingXer SU-2, have you compared that to the Antipodes P2 or S20? Or the Matrix box? I have found both DACs I've used (Tambaqui and DirectStream) to sound better with HDMI input than USB (and also to be substantially less cable-dependent), but I have only used the P2 to convert USB to HDMI."

Response:
I went from Matrix to SingXer SU-6 to SingXer SU-2 with External Clock input but did not have two of them simultaneously to compare A/B.

The Matrix was used on an Auralic Vega DAC when I owned a DX2. In this configuration I did not feel there was any improvement of USB to SPDIF coax or balanced compared to USB direct into the Vega so I sold the Matrix.

I also moved on from the Auralic Vega to an Audio GD R8HE DAC when I tried the SU-6. 
I felt the gain converting from USB to SPDIF or i2S into the Audio GD DAC was slightly better than marginal.

I sold the SU-6 and purchased the SU-2 to get the Ext. Clock input. The External Clock to the SU-2 bumped the performance up by at least 15% with i2S input to the DAC.

If anyone is interested, the upgrade from DX2 to CX/EX was about a 50% SQ improvement. Mark Jenkins had indicated this before I made the upgrade and I later found his assertion to be accurate.
Adding the Innuous Phoenix USB Regen was at least a 25% jump in SQ to the CX/EX. I owned both versions of the Uptone USB regens and vs. the Innuous Phoenix, while very expensive, once you hear it you won't want to go back. Hope this helps...


----------



## kennyb123

andrewd01 said:


> in. I am concerned that the products I have will be rendered inoperable due to software incompatibility issues. As long as the existing versions of the software work I am happy, but I see a potential risk that Tidal will stop working unless you use Roon version X, and if you can’t upgrade to Roon X because your hardware is restricted to operating system Y you then become the owner of a very expensive brick.


Roon is a different beast because it’s software plus services.  As the services get updated, the client software has to be upgraded to go along with it.  You are right to be concerned about maybe eventually finding that your server can no longer be supported.  That day is coming for sure, I’m sorry to say.  And you’re also right that your server will be a brick as far as running Roon.  But other alternatives will remain that will still run on that box.

I think by that time though you will be thanking Roon for forcing you to buy a much newer box.


----------



## kennyb123

frankensmurf said:


> I have downloaded a trial license, and played with this a very little bit. I was very surprised to hear your characterization because, in my system (which is generally very revealing of relatively small changes like USB or power cables) the differences between standard redbook and PGGA'd redbook (I used Gardiner's 1986 Mozart Requiem which for me is a pinnacle of great performance paired with early digital sound that in the wrong system can be quite glary and harsh) were quite subtle, and I honestly couldn't pick one as better than the other. I used the standard settings (Natural Transparency, Transparent Presentation, Auto Taps) to create a 32 bit /352khz file. I also processed Alberto Iglesias's OST to 'Todo Sobre mi Madre', same settings. The result was similarly.. inconclusive.



Your DAC applies it’s own scaling.  Sophisticated stuff, but unless you can disable that processing, you won’t be able to appreciate PGGB.  Since your DAC reprocess, I would expect you to hear no difference.

(This wss spectacular proof that expectation bias isn’t as much of a problem that some say.   You shouldn’t have heard a difference and actually didn’t - despite having high  expectations you would.  Kudos to you for having developed your listening skills to no be influenced by bias.)

From the description page of your DAC: “… all incoming digital audio is upsampled to 3.125MHz/32 bits and converted to noise shaped PWM. On the other board are two mono DACs, in which a discrete 32- stage FIR DAC and a single-stage 4th order filtering I/V converter, convert the PWM into analogue…”.


----------



## frankensmurf

Presence said:


> I sold the SU-6 and purchased the SU-2 to get the Ext. Clock input. The External Clock to the SU-2 bumped the performance up by at least 15% with i2S input to the DAC.
> 
> If anyone is interested, the upgrade from DX2 to CX/EX was about a 50% SQ improvement. Mark Jenkins had indicated this before I made the upgrade and I later found his assertion to be accurate.
> Adding the Innuous Phoenix USB Regen was at least a 25% jump in SQ to the CX/EX. I owned both versions of the Uptone USB regens and vs. the Innuous Phoenix, while very expensive, once you hear it you won't want to go back. Hope this helps...


I don't have any exposure to the DX but glad to hear there is such a big jump to the CX/EX. I'm not certain I heard a 25% jump in my configuration with the Phoenix, but there were already quite a few other treatments in place at the time. It definitely made a difference even on top of ER / LPS / P2/etc. 

I'm curious how the new Antipodes products compare with Innuos' particular USB reclocking tech. Has anyone tried adding a Phoenix after a K40 or S40 to ascertain the difference? I'm hoping it would be minimal.


----------



## frankensmurf

kennyb123 said:


> Your DAC applies it’s own scaling.  Sophisticated stuff, but unless you can disable that processing, you won’t be able to appreciate PGGB.  Since your DAC reprocess, I would expect you to hear no difference.
> 
> (This wss spectacular proof that expectation bias isn’t as much of a problem that some say.   You shouldn’t have heard a difference and actually didn’t - despite having high  expectations you would.  Kudos to you for having developed your listening skills to no be influenced by bias.)
> 
> From the description page of your DAC: “… all incoming digital audio is upsampled to 3.125MHz/32 bits and converted to noise shaped PWM. On the other board are two mono DACs, in which a discrete 32- stage FIR DAC and a single-stage 4th order filtering I/V converter, convert the PWM into analogue…”.


Expectation bias is a complicated beast -- I try to defeat it / break it whenever I can. Certainly I have no desire to spend $3k for a stupid power cable, but if it sounds better and the cost is worth it, I'll do it. (explaining 'why' is for someone else) So I'm at pains to prove to myself that I'm hearing what I'm hearing. This is not a matter of ABX or such nonsense: I simply believe what I hear, and believe what I *don't* hear. And repeat / re-configure enough that I'm not relying on one-off impressions whenever possible. Volume levelling helps too, when dealing with components, but for power cords, USB treatments, and such, that's not at issue. 

And yes, the Tambaqui is doing quite a bit of math, and no you can't turn it off.  : )


----------



## kennyb123

frankensmurf said:


> Expectation bias is a complicated beast -- I try to defeat it / break it whenever I can. Certainly I have no desire to spend $3k for a stupid power cable, but if it sounds better and the cost is worth it, I'll do it



I actually think most people are able to overcome it as our senses are busy discerning for us all the time.  Also what we come to find often are surprises.  We think we will get A  and B, but then we find what most impresses us is getting C and maybe D.  I expected certain things from my K30 - but the vinyl-like density of tone was a total surprise - and I think it’s what I appreciate most about it.

I think those who want to dismiss all subjective observations due to expectation bias are largely doing psychological projection.  Their biases are so strong and so irrational that they expect it’s the same for everyone else too.


----------



## kennyb123

ICYMI


----------



## Whazzzup

At least I’ll have till October to ponder but good to see I might be in.

‘We are currently working on the design of upgrades for all original DX3. This is expected to be available in September 2021, but no promises just yet as there are still some complex development steps to be completed. If you have an earlier DX or DXE, or one that had a DX3 Upgrade, please contact us for your options.’


----------



## kennyb123

Whazzzup said:


> We are currently working on the design of upgrades for all original DX3.



I must say that hearing this really makes me feel better about going with Antipodes.  Sure I had that one criticism about software updates, but good luck trying to figure out as easily if an Innuos Zenith Mk2 can be upgraded to Mk3.


----------



## Clive101

Hello All.

Mark (CEO Antipodes) emailed me regarding the recent comments and thought I would share.

"
Since Head-Fi  will not publish any of our posts we can only respond to user questions via our website, unfortunately.  We have nothing to hide and can answer all questions in detail.  So I have initiated a Forum to talk about the CX/EX Upgrades.



I see that there is particular concern about the short window for upgrades.  This is for two reasons.  The first is that the upgrades are complex and need to be done in batches, so we need to setup the factory to do them.  While that occurs, we cannot produce any other products.  Taking the factory off-line to do upgrades is not something we can do for a long period.  Two months is the maximum we can consider. 



The only alternative to that is to receive them and sit on them till we have enough to do, etc.  And that impacts the turn-around times for customers.  That is hardly ideal."

Also I noticed the new software version has MinimServer.

When I had the CX EX combo MinimServer was my preferred server and the SQ uplift is not small so looking forward to trying with the K50...

@Kapiti Thank you Antipodes for including this in the new software version.


----------



## Whazzzup

Well it isn’t really an open posting threads there, but congratulated antipodes on the effort to upgrade particularly dx3 and to see the details in the fall. Given a short window, depending on cost, probably will go for it.


----------



## richardloh (Jul 18, 2021)

frankensmurf said:


> So let's think about the math on this: In my case I own a (non-upgraded) CX/EX set. They have residual value -- the CX more than the EX. So when I look at an estimate of their residual value on the used market (or Antipodess upgrade program) I think the better value is in getting the new equipment. Why?
> 
> Firstly, the K50 is the wrong comparison. K50 = CX + EX + P2, plus the convenience of a single chassis (which also means a single power cords, fewer expensive ethernet and USB cables, etc). As I understand it, the new S series is a closer way to approximate the multi-box approach of the CX/EX.
> 
> Anyway end of lengthy message, cheers.



Hi Franken,

Nice sharing of your tots .. I enjoyed reading them !

Just to add, I wish for blue leds on my cx+ex which to many will be frivolous but audiophiles typically are else I will just get an all-in-all bose or sonos system

Whilst indeed more expense with another zonotone shupreme pc and audio revive ethernet cable, I do like the previous but not too distant touted idea of having separate server and player units. Experience with improvement by ER and AD clock tells me that there are areas that Antipodes did not address nor had a superior solution .. having the option to squeeze in another ER and superior clock before the ex player unlike impossible for K50 seems the way to go for me ditto my transport and dac with its oxco clock else back to all-in-one cd player.

Last but not least, it is less painful with usd4k on the latest possible (when available) with upgraded ex+cx which will also have some residual values compared to stock ones than getting a new usd15k K50 ... and yes, I have the P1 and P2 as footers for the ex and cx for completeness 😅

Cheers.

Richard

PS: Also nice 2 yr extended warranty for upgraded units ... worth how much for even original usd10k cx+ex stack ? 2-3k already like getting discount for non warrantied set like stock cx and ex in the mkt ??


----------



## richardloh (Jul 18, 2021)

Clive101 said:


> "
> Since Head-Fi  will not publish any of our posts we can only respond to user questions via our website, unfortunately.  We have nothing to hide and can answer all questions in detail.  So I have initiated a Forum to talk about the CX/EX Upgrades.
> 
> 
> ...


For me,

1. I am grateful that Antipodes expended resources, time and effort to offer this upgrade ... period.

2. It is up to me to proceed with upgrade or not .. nobody is pointing a gun to me head.

3. Worthwhile ? Highly personal but I buy Antipodes' expertise ... I am 100% convinced that it is not a mega $ making efforts or devious plan behind but having owners continued joy of having latest development aka improvement possible ..

Cheers.

_Quote: In terms of sound quality, the K50 is a large improvement over the CX+EX combination. The upgrades close around 80% to 90% of that gap (on USB). I am stating a range of percentages because it is impossible to be precise when peoples' systems and preferences are different. We have a long history of offering to keep peoples' older units up with our latest technology and we don't offer upgrades unless the sound quality improvement will be very significant._


----------



## Triode User

Is it just me or am I the only person who cannot post on the Antipodes website help forum?


----------



## 12grayclouds

Triode User said:


> Is it just me or am I the only person who cannot post on the Antipodes website help forum?


I think that they are upgrading the site at the moment


----------



## Triode User

12grayclouds said:


> I think that they are upgrading the site at the moment


👍


----------



## cczero17

...and my units are currently on their way to New Zealand for the upgrades 👍


----------



## kennyb123

Triode User said:


> Is it just me or am I the only person who cannot post on the Antipodes website help forum?


Each sub-forum is a group and you have to join before you can post.  At least that’s the way it was last week.  It’s been evolving.


----------



## Progisus

FWIW… if MPD works the same on K series with new software as it does on 2.8 -

You won’t need to run a server such as minimserver etc as it links directly to your local library at storage/ . You will need to use an MPD (not upnp) controller such as Rigelian to control direct play MPD. For PGGB files stored on your server it is the best sonics I have found. Beats out HQPlayer and Squeeze imho.


----------



## Triode User

Progisus said:


> FWIW… if MPD works the same on K series with new software as it does on 2.8 -
> 
> You won’t need to run a server such as minimserver etc as it links directly to your local library at storage/ . You will need to use an MPD (not upnp) controller such as Rigelian to control direct play MPD. For PGGB files stored on your server it is the best sonics I have found. Beats out HQPlayer and Squeeze imho.


Only 10 days to go until the end of July . . . .


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> You won’t need to run a server such as minimserver etc as it links directly to your local library at storage/ . You will need to use an MPD (not upnp) controller such as Rigelian to control direct play MPD. For PGGB files stored on your server it is the best sonics I have found. Beats out HQPlayer and Squeeze imho.


Thanks for that.  Easy as heck to get this running.  I already had 8player on my iPhone so it was easy to get music playing.  Bloody hell this sounds great.  Yeah I know @Triode User told me so, but I can occasionally be stubborn.

i really love how the shared library is used across all their apps.  So easy to switch between them.

 Next I need to decide on a player app.  And figure out how to get Qobuz playing through this.


----------



## Triode User

kennyb123 said:


> Thanks for that.  Easy as heck to get this running.  I already had 8player on my iPhone so it was easy to get music playing.  Bloody hell this sounds great.  Yeah I know @Triode User told me so, but I can occasionally be stubborn.
> 
> i really love how the shared library is used across all their apps.  So easy to switch between them.
> 
> Next I need to decide on a player app.  And figure out how to get Qobuz playing through this.


Although when we get 3.1 and can use the latest squeezelite i do want to try that with pggb. Its not that i doubt @Progisus but i thought mpd is a pull app on the player where squeezelite is a push app on the server sending the files to a dumb player on the k50 Player.


----------



## Clive101 (Jul 22, 2021)

Thought you needed a player with MiniumServer think I used MPD
So all you need is MPD as a player with no server ?

I see Antipodes have added more help on their apps
http://antipodes.audio/support1/guides

But wrong user guides on the software page ..all links go to the AMS v3   Since positing it is now fixed


----------



## kennyb123

Clive101 said:


> So all you need is MPD as a player with no server ?


It seems there is still a server but it may only be indexing the music and making it available to be pulled from.  

The iOS app Glider found both my k30server and k30player (simply called Antipodes).  It scanned the server first.  When I selected an album and hit play, it had me pick an output so I selected my player, which was listed as Antipodes.  

This was my first go at it, so no clue if I did it right.

HQPlayer badly misbehaved tonight.  Occasionally it gives a blast of static.  It actually tripped the protection on my amp. Twice.  It had never done that before.  It’s my understanding that this issue was fixed in a newer version of HQPlayer, which is a big reason why I’ve been eager to get an upgrade.  It would really suck to blow an amp or damage my speakers because software upgrades have been held back.  I’ll be sticking with MPD for the time being.


----------



## Progisus

I believe the players you guys are using still route the file through the app (bubble, glider, mconnect etc) and then to MPD player. This requires a server somewhere on your network. What 3.1 will bring is a newer MPD version that pulls the file directly from your internal storage. It’s control app and there are only a few gives it the commands and displays the library on the k?. No server needed. The IOS control apps I have used are Rigelian and MaximumMPD. Cantata on the mac.


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> This requires a server somewhere on your network. What 3.1 will bring is a newer MPD version that pulls the file directly from your internal storage. It’s control app and there are only a few gives it the commands and displays the library on the k?. No server needed. The IOS control apps I have used are Rigelian and MaximumMPD. Cantata on the mac.


On a K series, I don’t believe the Player sees the storage.  So maybe MPD would just run on the Server.  Hopefully they’ll soon have a setup guide on this.   There was a placeholder last time I checked.


----------



## richardloh

My ex and cx packed for return to Antipodes for upgrade ..  finally !  🥳

Just noticed requested blue led at ready instead of dated green will be offered to all who upgrade 👍👏


----------



## kennyb123

richardloh said:


> Just noticed requested blue led at ready instead of dated green will be offered to all who upgrade 👍👏


That’s freaking awesome!!!


----------



## cczero17

kennyb123 said:


> That’s freaking awesome!!!


Not so long ago I would have gone for that, however most of my equipment seems to have green lighting now


----------



## andrewd01

The good news is that CX/EX are not being orphaned from a software standpoint. 
I incorrectly thought this was the case if the hardware was not upgraded.

I will let you guys do the burning in on the Oladra upgraded hardware for a couple of years and then I will look to buy on the used market, after the next best thing is announced .


----------



## richardloh

cczero17 said:


> Not so long ago I would have gone for that, however most of my equipment seems to have green lighting now


I had my Bel Canton Fm1 tuner, Denafrips Hermes ddc, Denafrips Terminator+, Gilmore Headamp as well as local cable set up box diy modded with blue leds ... hence glad Antipodes' upgrade offered the same like Gilmore for their upgraded psu unit as I will not diy such an expensive piece of equipment to mess them up.

60 yrs young and enuff of green leds in my lifetime 😅

Cheers.


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> The IOS control apps I have used are Rigelian and MaximumMPD. Cantata on the mac.



I installed Rigelian and then had to pay for it since it was useless without doing that.  They do give a 2 month free trial, so I could have always backed out.  This didn't seem to work for me with how things are configured on my K30.  I was really impressed though with how it worked with my Poly/Mojo.  It might be a keeper.  Thanks for the recommendation.

Glider for iOS is doing the job for me with my K30, so I'll stick with it for the time being.  

Next up is trying Cantana on Mac.  The one big gap with using HQPlayer Embedded was a good control app for the Mac.


----------



## Progisus

kennyb123 said:


> I installed Rigelian and then had to pay for it since it was useless without doing that.  They do give a 2 month free trial, so I could have always backed out.  This didn't seem to work for me with how things are configured on my K30.  I was really impressed though with how it worked with my Poly/Mojo.  It might be a keeper.  Thanks for the recommendation.
> 
> Glider for iOS is doing the job for me with my K30, so I'll stick with it for the time being.
> 
> Next up is trying Cantana on Mac.  The one big gap with using HQPlayer Embedded was a good control app for the Mac.


Rigelian should work the same on your K30 once the mpd version is updated. On your poly/mojo I assume you were playing from an sd card. No server required and signal goes direct from sd card to player for even more transparency. I’ve been using Roon on my Poly/Mojo. Time to give MPD a go. No streaming though.


----------



## atya35mm

Hi all, new to this thread and keen to get some advice on best way forward to upgrade the way I stream music. 

I currently have USB out direct from Roon Nucleus into my DAC. Now after bit of research, this is not ideal and I gather any endpoint at whichever price point would be better than going direct between Nucleus and DAC. 

So I stumbled onto Antipodes after reading about Auralic G1, Innuos Zen servers etc. If going down the antipodes path, would something like EX or one of the music servers like S40 work as a Roon endpoint to go direct to DAC? Thanks for all your help in advance.


----------



## kennyb123

atya35mm said:


> So I stumbled onto Antipodes after reading about Auralic G1, Innuos Zen servers etc. If going down the antipodes path, would something like EX or one of the music servers like S40 work as a Roon endpoint to go direct to DAC?


Yes - and I think you‘d get a very nice bump in sound quality too.  I’ve previously owned Auralic and Innuos servers, but now own Antipodes.  I think they all make fine products.  Auralic provides only two software choices, I think - Roon and their Lightning DS.  Roon was a second class citizen back when I owned the original Aries, but not sure if that was true.  Innuos Zen has an excellent built-in power supply, so it’s a really good choice.  But I actually think an S40 will be a better match with your DAVE - especially were you to add the S60 power supply. Speed, dynamics and low noise will be its strengths.  Possibly tonal weight too.  

I really like the software options that Antipodes offers.  You will get to choose from several player apps. Roon can sound a lot better when using Squeeze as the player.  Plus as you can see in the last few pages of this thread, many of us are favoring some of the alternatives to Roon for sound quality.  It’s super easy to switch between them so I use Roon only when in the mood to let Roon Radio drive and pick the music for me.  I then switch to another option when I know what I want to listen to.

Lastly, I think Antipodes has the best upgrade situation.  Good luck finding if an Innuos Zen Mk2 can be upgraded to Mk3.  I owned a Zenith Mk2 and was added to a list in August 2019 to be notified once the Mk3 upgrade was offered. I never heard from them.


----------



## atya35mm

kennyb123 said:


> Yes - and I think you‘d get a very nice bump in sound quality too.  I’ve previously owned Auralic and Innuos servers, but now own Antipodes.  I think they all make fine products.  Auralic provides only two software choices, I think - Roon and their Lightning DS.  Roon was a second class citizen back when I owned the original Aries, but not sure if that was true.  Innuos Zen has an excellent built-in power supply, so it’s a really good choice.  But I actually think an S40 will be a better match with your DAVE - especially were you to add the S60 power supply. Speed, dynamics and low noise will be its strengths.  Possibly tonal weight too.
> 
> I really like the software options that Antipodes offers.  You will get to choose from several player apps. Roon can sound a lot better when using Squeeze as the player.  Plus as you can see in the last few pages of this thread, many of us are favoring some of the alternatives to Roon for sound quality.  It’s super easy to switch between them so I use Roon only when in the mood to let Roon Radio drive and pick the music for me.  I then switch to another option when I know what I want to listen to.
> 
> Lastly, I think Antipodes has the best upgrade situation.  Good luck finding if an Innuos Zen Mk2 can be upgraded to Mk3.  I owned a Zenith Mk2 and was added to a list in August 2019 to be notified once the Mk3 upgrade was offered. I never heard from them.


Thanks Kenny! That's really helpful and provides a clearer path for me. Thinking I might still keep the Nucleus as Roon core, would the S30 be suitable as well with upgraded power supply? I'm guessing difference between S30/S40 is performance, and I probably won't be doing much DSP or any kind of processing, letting the M-scaler handling that. Re Squeeze, yes I did hear couple of members in other threads as well saying Roon quality might not be the best etc so something for me to look into as well.


----------



## kennyb123 (Jul 24, 2021)

atya35mm said:


> would the S30 be suitable as well with upgraded power supply? I'm guessing difference between S30/S40 is performance, and I probably won't be doing much DSP or any kind of processing, letting the M-scaler handling that.


I had mentioned waiting to hear about the Mk3 upgrade from Innuos.  I grew impatient so just purchased a Mk3 and then sold the Mk2.  I mentioned this because the main difference between the two is the power supply.  It was a significant upgrade so that makes me think the power supply plays a big part in a server’s sound quality.  So I’d be inclined to go with S30 + S60 over S40 alone.  But best to confirm with Antipodes. 

Where the S40 would have the edge might be if you wanted to ditch the Nucleus.  Low noise matters a lot on the server side too - as do power supplies.  Since you aren’t doing DSP, the S30 might be powerful enough to run Roon core.  A little extra horsepower there might help though especially if you have a large music library.

I have found Mark Cole of Antipodes to be an awesome resource.  That’s another advantage one gets with Antipodes over the other two brands you mentioned.  Mark is helpful both before and after the sale, so definitely run it by him.

Have you heard of PGGB yet?  This does offline upsampling using a similar philosophy to MScaler.  Hearing this was a big reason I moved to Antipodes as it gave me a few different playback options.  I think you might be stunned by the improvement PGGB brings providing you run your server directly into your DAVE.  More here: https://www.remastero.com/

I actually sold my MScaler to help fund the purchase of my K30.  The lift from doing that was worth every penny and then some.  When streaming I will use HQPlayer to scale.  While it alone doesn’t bring as great a lift as MScaler, the lift from a better music server left me not missing MScaler at all.  Just some food for thought.


----------



## atya35mm

kennyb123 said:


> I had mentioned waiting to hear about the Mk3 upgrade from Innuos.  I grew impatient so just purchased a Mk3 and then sold the Mk2.  I mentioned this because the main difference between the two is the power supply.  It was a significant upgrade so that makes me think the power supply plays a big part in a server’s sound quality.  So I’d be inclined to go with S30 + S60 over S40 alone.  But best to confirm with Antipodes.
> 
> Where the S40 would have the edge might be if you wanted to ditch the Nucleus.  Low noise matters a lot on the server side too - as do power supplies.  Since you aren’t doing DSP, the S30 might be powerful enough to run Roon core.  A little extra horsepower there might help though especially if you have a large music library.
> 
> ...


Thanks Kenny! Lots of food for thought, but S30 + S60 looks like a doable option.


----------



## andrewd01

atya35mm said:


> Hi all, new to this thread and keen to get some advice on best way forward to upgrade the way I stream music.
> 
> I currently have USB out direct from Roon Nucleus into my DAC. Now after bit of research, this is not ideal and I gather any endpoint at whichever price point would be better than going direct between Nucleus and DAC.
> 
> So I stumbled onto Antipodes after reading about Auralic G1, Innuos Zen servers etc. If going down the antipodes path, would something like EX or one of the music servers like S40 work as a Roon endpoint to go direct to DAC? Thanks for all your help in advance.



If you want to add a Roon endpoint to use with your Nucleus as a core it is better to use one of the lower powered machines especially designed to be optimal for running player software.  This would be the S30 or an EX.  Later on you could replace the Nucleus with the matching Antipodes server that is optimised to run the Roon core (S40 or CX).  

The CX and EX had a very short lifecycle.  They were only released in 2018 and have now been superseded by the S and K series.  This means they are a bargain to buy on the used market.  I paid approximately half the full retail price for my pair from an authorised dealer with warranty.

I had an Innuous Zen mkiii before antipodes.  It sounded fantastic with more laid back genres like jazz, but after I got the antipodes I realised that the innuos was  smoothing out the music, at the expense of realism.


----------



## cczero17

Is PGGB $500 a year or a one off payment?


----------



## Progisus

cczero17 said:


> Is PGGB $500 a year or a one off payment?


One off with a year or possibly more updates.


----------



## cczero17

So what happens a couple of years down the line, you don't get any new updates?


----------



## kennyb123

cczero17 said:


> So what happens a couple of years down the line, you don't get any new updates?


You go on happily processing your music and getting the same great sound quality improvement.  But honestly I think PGGB more than pays for itself in the first month.


----------



## Clive101 (Jul 25, 2021)

Hello All,   

Help Needed !

I have been trying PGGB with the K50 Roon HQP and via MPD with the Bubble App, Antipodes DNLA (library), K50player (renderer) .

Although PGGB MPD does have the edge over Roon HQP neither of options stacked up against the Mscaler with any software playback.

NOTE: PGGB uses USB (Chord Music USB cable) and Mscaler uses BNC (Wave Storm Cables x 3) which may be the difference ? 

I did not try USB PGGB vs USB Dave Mscaler, I know the sound of USB Dave Mscaler and clearly prefer the SQ than USB PGGB.
Anyway, I compared my preferred SQ, BNC vs the best I could do with PGGB. I know you can dual BNC with PGGB but the difference was so much perhaps not worth considering.  

With PGGB the sound was flat no Bass, lack of detail, narrow sound stage I could go on but basically could not listen, something is wrong.

PGGB was set to Natural-Moderate-Moderate while upscaling. I checked all the settings when paying, all correct and Dave was reporting 705 or 768 depending on the track via USB.

Note: Squeeze, downscales the files so gave up on that quickly.

The difference is NO small margin but gave it a while for brain adjust, played last night and again this morning with still the same result.
I am certain the settings on the PGGB will not be strong enough to change the sound.

Since several of you are having good results I am surprised I am having such poor SQ.

Can anyone send me some files for me to try?

PM me and will send a link where you can upload them to.

Thanks


----------



## Triode User

Clive101 said:


> Hello All,
> 
> Help Needed !
> 
> ...


 Clive,

You are not really comparing apples to apples.

By using USB out from the K50 to the Dave for the PGGB you are getting a different sound quality anyway compared to K50 connected by BNC (Wave) to Mscaler which is then connected by dual BNC (Wave) to Dave.

Many of us using PGGB are now using USB from K50 to SRC-DX usb to dual BNC convertor and then connect from that to Dave via dual BNC.

That way you bypass the Amanero usb input chip in the Dave and what is exactly what you are doing in your Mscaler set up (the Mscaler uses the same usb input chip which you are again avoiding by using the BNC input on the Mscaler.

I can send you an SRC-DX to borrow if you like. You would connect it to the Dave using the dual Storm cables that you already have. When you use PGGB with the SRC.DX you need to process them set to 24 bit output bit depth because of course BNC only supports 24bit.

The other thing to suggest waiting for is the 3.1 upgrade to the K50 at the end of this month which will allow you to use the latest versions of Squeezelite which can play the 705 / 768 files so you would be directly comparing with the Squeezelite player that you are using with the Mscaler.

These are the PGGB settings that I use when outputting via the SRC.DX


----------



## magnuska

Hi Am new to this forum but have used Antipodes EX and now S40 so I thought I would chime in with
thoughts.
When I had the EX it was as a roon player only. Using the Innuos ZEN mini mk3 as Roon server. This sounded good but I was thinking if the Aqua linq would not be a better player, doubtfully it was. Maybe a little better than my EX. I then was offered to trade the Linq for the new S40. I had sold my Innuos. So now I used my S40 as Roon server and player all in one with only the supplied Anipodes SMPS. The new Oladra program is so good that my S40 alone beat my prior dual set up. What is typical I think is its great musicality , dynamics and speed. 
A fellow at Audiogon sold his CX in favour of the new S30.


----------



## cczero17

magnuska said:


> Hi Am new to this forum but have used Antipodes EX and now S40 so I thought I would chime in with
> thoughts.
> When I had the EX it was as a roon player only. Using the Innuos ZEN mini mk3 as Roon server. This sounded good but I was thinking if the Aqua linq would not be a better player, doubtfully it was. Maybe a little better than my EX. I then was offered to trade the Linq for the new S40. I had sold my Innuos. So now I used my S40 as Roon server and player all in one with only the supplied Anipodes SMPS. The new Oladra program is so good that my S40 alone beat my prior dual set up. What is typical I think is its great musicality , dynamics and speed.
> A fellow at Audiogon sold his CX in favour of the new S30.


So OLDRA updated CX/EX should sound stellar then 👍


----------



## magnuska

cczero17 said:


> So OLDRA updated CX/EX should sound stellar then 👍


Yes I´m sure they will


----------



## Clive101 (Jul 25, 2021)

Triode User said:


> Clive,
> 
> You are not really comparing apples to apples.
> 
> ...


Hello Nick,

Thank you for your input. I will wait for all the upgraded software and PM you for the SRC-DX USB as the new software is about to be released. Very kind of you to offer me a loaner.
Even so there is still a USB in the equation with the SRC-DX USB.

It suggests to me that the K50 to Dave or Dave Mscaler is far better with BNC than USB which is my experience ...so anyone purchasing a K30 try to stretch for a K50
which to me seems better valve as you save on cables etc and a S20. When I demoed both I tried the K50 with the BNC and could not go back to the K30, with the S versions try a S20.

To me the BNC to Dave or Dave Mscaler makes a very big improvement better than PGGB as tested in my earlier post but as you not the same comparison.

"The other thing to suggest waiting for is the 3.1 upgrade to the K50 at the end of this month which will allow you to use the latest versions of Squeezelite which can play the 705 / 768 files so you would be directly comparing with the Squeezelite player that you are using with the Mscaler."

So, K50 Roon (server) to Squeeze (player) PGGB (24 bit 705 / 768 Files) with a single BNC to Dave from the K50 would work ? If so even a closer comparison.

Looking forward to the new Antipodes software and trying the SRC-DX USB loaner


----------



## Triode User

Clive101 said:


> So, K50 Roon (server) to Squeeze (player) PGGB (24 bit 705 / 768 Files) with a single BNC to Dave from the K50 would work ? If so even a closer comparison.


No. For 705 and 768kHz you need the dual BNC, hence where the SRC.DX comes in with its dual bnc output.


----------



## Clive101 (Jul 25, 2021)

Triode User said:


> No. For 705 and 768kHz you need the dual BNC, hence where the SRC.DX comes in with its dual bnc output.



Oh I see, shame but Squeeze will do it on USB which helps but not exactly as my Dave Mscaler set up

No wonder why I prefer the K50 BNC vs the SGM Taiko Extreme USB


----------



## kennyb123

magnuska said:


> The new Oladra program is so good that my S40 alone beat my prior dual set up. What is typical I think is its great musicality , dynamics and speed.
> A fellow at Audiogon sold his CX in favour of the new S30.


Welcome and thanks for sharing these interesting insights.


----------



## cczero17

kennyb123 said:


> Welcome and thanks for sharing these interesting insights.


Wouldn't it have been cheaper to upgrade a CX, which would also outperform an S40? Seems a step backwards to me


----------



## magnuska

cczero17 said:


> Wouldn't it have been cheaper to upgrade a CX, which would also outperform an S40? Seems a step backwards to me


Yes maybe, this is the big Q. CX( upgraded)and S40 should be quite similar apart from the built in powersupply in the CX. An S40 with added powersupply either S60 or another brand is in a newer smaller case if one likes that. I think the hybrid S60 powersupply beats the inbuilt one in the CX for example. This is tough descision and I guess Antipodes have given upgrade prices a lot of thought before.


----------



## atya35mm

kennyb123 said:


> I had mentioned waiting to hear about the Mk3 upgrade from Innuos.  I grew impatient so just purchased a Mk3 and then sold the Mk2.  I mentioned this because the main difference between the two is the power supply.  It was a significant upgrade so that makes me think the power supply plays a big part in a server’s sound quality.  So I’d be inclined to go with S30 + S60 over S40 alone.  But best to confirm with Antipodes.
> 
> Where the S40 would have the edge might be if you wanted to ditch the Nucleus.  Low noise matters a lot on the server side too - as do power supplies.  Since you aren’t doing DSP, the S30 might be powerful enough to run Roon core.  A little extra horsepower there might help though especially if you have a large music library.
> 
> ...


Well thanks to your input and others here, I have an incoming used K30/S20! Looking forward to trying all the server / player app possibilities in the antipodes line. Should be a huge jump in SQ from using the Roon Nucleus direct to DAC. 

From all the reading, I'll connect from S20 to m-scaler via single BNC cable. Looks to be the best option from Clive and Triode User's testing.


----------



## Clive101

atya35mm said:


> Well thanks to your input and others here, I have an incoming used K30/S20! Looking forward to trying all the server / player app possibilities in the antipodes line. Should be a huge jump in SQ from using the Roon Nucleus direct to DAC.
> 
> From all the reading, I'll connect from S20 to m-scaler via single BNC cable. Looks to be the best option from Clive and Triode User's testing.


ASK for a demo K 50 and beg for a discount you might get lucky


----------



## atya35mm

Clive101 said:


> ASK for a demo K 50 and beg for a discount you might get lucky


I tried! no luck!


----------



## kennyb123

atya35mm said:


> I tried! no luck!



I have a feeling that those demo K50s rarely, if ever, make it back to them.


----------



## Bling23

Clive101 said:


> I thought I would start a thread were Antipodes owners could discuss tips and tricks.


Great Idea 👌


----------



## Bling23

Hi There,
Anyone try Mutec USB reclocker from Antipodes USB out to DAC, I've a K50 sounds great but maybe theres more to be had. Ive noticed USB sounds better than AES into my DAC I thought that would not be the case
Thanks


----------



## kennyb123 (Jul 27, 2021)

Bling23 said:


> I've a K50 sounds great but maybe theres more to be had. Ive noticed USB sounds better than AES into my DAC I thought that would not be the case



This is from the description of the P2:

“The requirements for the P2’s digital outputs are quite different because they are synchronous interfaces. Therefore, in addition to low noise, the P2 needs exceptional accuracy of the clock data carried in the signal. The ultra-low noise signal produced by the CX or EX is sent via USB to the P2, and the P2 regenerates signals using a femto-second clock.”

I believe this continues to apply even to the reclocker in the K50 in that it’s fed USB and then high quality clock data is added to it since USB doesn’t carry that (USB id asynchronous with the receiver clock setting the tempo). I think it would be reasonable to conclude that USB will be the cleanest output.  The other outputs are provided for DACs that may not favor or even have a USB input.


----------



## Triode User

kennyb123 said:


> This is from the description of the P2:
> 
> “The requirements for the P2’s digital outputs are quite different because they are synchronous interfaces. Therefore, in addition to low noise, the P2 needs exceptional accuracy of the clock data carried in the signal. The ultra-low noise signal produced by the CX or EX is sent via USB to the P2, and the P2 regenerates signals using a femto-second clock.”
> 
> I believe this continues to apply even to the reclocker in the K50 in that it’s fed USB and then high quality clock data is added to it since USB doesn’t carry that (USB id asynchronous with the receiver clock setting the tempo). I think it would be reasonable to conclude that USB will be the cleanest output.  The other outputs are provided for DACs that may not favor or even have a USB input.





Bling23 said:


> Hi There,
> Anyone try Mutec USB reclocker from Antipodes USB out to DAC, I've a K50 sounds great but maybe theres more to be had. Ive noticed USB sounds better than AES into my DAC I thought that would not be the case
> Thanks


Bling, you do not say what your dac is. Does it only have aes and usb input?

Kenny, quite a few of us prefer the BNC output on the K50 rather than usb especially going to the chord mscaler or chord dacs and that is why i ask what dac Bling has.


----------



## kennyb123

Triode User said:


> Kenny, quite a few of us prefer the BNC output on the K50 rather than usb especially going to the chord mscaler or chord dacs and that is why i ask what dac Bling has.


Yes but that likely aligns with what I wrote: "The other outputs are provided for DACs _that may not favor _or even have a USB input."  You avoid the Amanaro USB so it's more about the inferiority of that than the superiority of BNC coming out of the K50.  I could be wrong of course.


----------



## Triode User

kennyb123 said:


> Yes but that likely aligns with what I wrote: "The other outputs are provided for DACs _that may not favor _or even have a USB input."  You avoid the Amanaro USB so it's more about the inferiority of that than the superiority of BNC coming out of the K50.  I could be wrong of course.


Agreed, the other thing is that we do not know is whether the P2 from the superseded CX/EX range has the same internal configuration as the K50 with its outputs and therefore whether you mentioning its configuration is applicable to the k50? The Antipodes K50 description says, “all new”.

An all-new fully-isolated reclocking engine to provide exceptional S/PDIF, AES3 and I2S digital outputs.
That is why I thought it would be good to know what DAC is being used.


----------



## atya35mm

Triode User said:


> Agreed, the other thing is that we do not know is whether the P2 from the superseded CX/EX range has the same internal configuration as the K50 with its outputs and therefore whether you mentioning its configuration is applicable to the k50? The Antipodes K50 description says, “all new”.
> 
> An all-new fully-isolated reclocking engine to provide exceptional S/PDIF, AES3 and I2S digital outputs.
> That is why I thought it would be good to know what DAC is being used.


I noticed you have the Phoenix. Have you tried K50 > Phoenix > M-Scaler using USB?


----------



## Triode User

atya35mm said:


> I noticed you have the Phoenix. Have you tried K50 > Phoenix > M-Scaler using USB?



Yes, I use that configuration at the moment when I use the Mscaler (indeed whenever I use USB from the K50) but don’t read too much (or indeed anything) from that because I also have an Innuos streamer and I just tend to swop their USB outputs to the Phoenix. I am really waiting for the Antipodes release of 3.1 to enable me to use the current versions of Squeezelite, MPD, etc with the K50 before I spend time trying to work out if the Phoenix improves the K50 usb output.


----------



## Bling23

Triode User said:


> Bling, you do not say what your dac is. Does it only have aes and usb input?
> 
> Kenny, quite a few of us prefer the BNC output on the K50 rather than usb especially going to the chord mscaler or chord dacs and that is why i ask what dac Bling has.


Hi ,
Yes DAC has both inputs it’s Weiss 501, I was using AES out previously as I just presumed it was the best, I switched back just to try USB and on my system it sound better. I am not using Mscaler or anything between k50 and DAC.
Thanks
Sean


----------



## kennyb123

Triode User said:


> the other thing is that we do not know is whether the P2 from the superseded CX/EX range has the same internal configuration as the K50 with its outputs and therefore whether you mentioning its configuration is applicable to the k50? The Antipodes K50 description says, “all new”



The new S20 may provide some insight:

“Unfortunately, USB Audio has been negatively impacted by revisions of the USB standard, and the noise introduced by using Ethernet is just as troubling. The Antipodes S20 is the answer to this problem, isolating the USB input electronically from the reclocker circuit and then providing precision re-clocked outputs, powered by Antipodes HSL power supplies.”

My previous assumption looks like it might not have been correct.  I hadn’t considered that additional power supply to power it either.  That should definitely be a plus.  The K50 has 3 supplies with one powering the reclocker, so K50 owners are in great shape.  And K30 owners could always add the S20+S60.


----------



## Triode User

kennyb123 said:


> The new S20 may provide some insight:
> 
> “Unfortunately, USB Audio has been negatively impacted by revisions of the USB standard, and the noise introduced by using Ethernet is just as troubling. The Antipodes S20 is the answer to this problem, isolating the USB input electronically from the reclocker circuit and then providing precision re-clocked outputs, powered by Antipodes HSL power supplies.”
> 
> My previous assumption looks like it might not have been correct.  I hadn’t considered that additional power supply to power it either.  That should definitely be a plus.  The K50 has 3 supplies with one powering the reclocker, so K50 owners are in great shape.  And K30 owners could always add the S20+S60.



Ah, cool. Thanks for investigating that.


----------



## Bling23

kennyb123 said:


> This is from the description of the P2:
> 
> “The requirements for the P2’s digital outputs are quite different because they are synchronous interfaces. Therefore, in addition to low noise, the P2 needs exceptional accuracy of the clock data carried in the signal. The ultra-low noise signal produced by the CX or EX is sent via USB to the P2, and the P2 regenerates signals using a femto-second clock.”
> 
> I believe this continues to apply even to the reclocker in the K50 in that it’s fed USB and then high quality clock data is added to it since USB doesn’t carry that (USB id asynchronous with the receiver clock setting the tempo). I think it would be reasonable to conclude that USB will be the cleanest output.  The other outputs are provided for DACs that may not favor or even have a USB input.


Thant is ver interseting thank for sharing. The K50 is world clock and unfortunately doesn't accept 10mhz input so my understanding is any clock attached becomes a SLAVE. Have you tried the P2 I am not sure it adds much to the K50 as it already has AES out or maybe I'm wrong and it does more?


----------



## Triode User

Bling23 said:


> Its a very weird one I'm on Vodaphone and for whatever reason the K50 is not stable either shows streamer only or server only or neither. I still plays music but not as still very frustrating. I am afraid to do tweets or changes incase I loose it all-together. I think it's to do with the single IP address for two devices streamer/server.


I assume you are talking about seeing the K50 Server and Player on MyAntipodes are you? Have you tried reaching out to Mark Coles at Antipodes with this issue? Or do you think it is a cellular signal strength issue and if so do you have an external aerial? Have you looked up on a cellular transmitter map to see which network and which transmitter is best for you?


----------



## cczero17

kennyb123 said:


> The new S20 may provide some insight:
> 
> “Unfortunately, USB Audio has been negatively impacted by revisions of the USB standard, and the noise introduced by using Ethernet is just as troubling. The Antipodes S20 is the answer to this problem, isolating the USB input electronically from the reclocker circuit and then providing precision re-clocked outputs, powered by Antipodes HSL power supplies.”
> 
> My previous assumption looks like it might not have been correct.  I hadn’t considered that additional power supply to power it either.  That should definitely be a plus.  The K50 has 3 supplies with one powering the reclocker, so K50 owners are in great shape.  And K30 owners could always add the S20+S60.


I wonder if this will be added as an OLADRA tech upgrade to the CX/EX units. I assume it will


----------



## Triode User

cczero17 said:


> I wonder if this will be added as an OLADRA tech upgrade to the CX/EX units. I assume it will


I assume it won’t and that the OLADRA upgrade is just the power supply but I could be wrong and often am!. The CX/EX upgrade path only exists anyway up to the end of August 2021 so best to check out with Antipodes what you get with the upgrade and get units booked in before the cut off date?


----------



## Bling23

Triode User said:


> I assume you are talking about seeing the K50 Server and Player on MyAntipodes are you? Have you tried reaching out to Mark Coles at Antipodes with this issue? Or do you think it is a cellular signal strength issue and if so do you have an external aerial? Have you looked up on a cellular transmitter map to see which network and which transmitter is best for you?


Yep Mark has dialed in a few times but nothing can be done seemingly ,meanwhile I
end up with a K50 I can’t see or use properly on “my antipodes “ , it’s very frustrating ,I guess my situation is rare but none the less at the moment a problem.


----------



## 12grayclouds (Jul 28, 2021)

The K50 has two separate IP addresses for the server player.
Could be a NAT issue.
What are the makes and models of your modem router switch etc


----------



## cczero17

Triode User said:


> I assume it won’t and that the OLADRA upgrade is just the power supply but I could be wrong and often am!. The CX/EX upgrade path only exists anyway up to the end of August 2021 so best to check out with Antipodes what you get with the upgrade and get units booked in before the cut off date?


Oh, they are there at present and are currently in surgery 😁. Speaking to Mark, the performance of the CX/EX after the upgrade is going to be very close, and that the upgrades are very very good value indeed


----------



## worknprogress

I have Norton 360 with VPN on my desktop units and on mobile devices.  I have not tried managing My Antipodes on mobil, but to see the configuration dashboard using My Antipodes, I have to disconnect VPN.   I can directly enter the IP addresses for server and player with VPN on, just not see the combined dashboard with VPN on.   I would suggest directly entering the server and player IP addresses into browser as well.  



Bling23 said:


> Yep Mark has dialed in a few times but nothing can be done seemingly ,meanwhile I
> end up with a K50 I can’t see or use properly on “my antipodes “ , it’s very frustrating ,I guess my situation is rare but none the less at the moment a problem.


----------



## frankensmurf

kennyb123 said:


> I actually think most people are able to overcome it as our senses are busy discerning for us all the time.  Also what we come to find often are surprises.  We think we will get A  and B, but then we find what most impresses us is getting C and maybe D.  I expected certain things from my K30 - but the vinyl-like density of tone was a total surprise - and I think it’s what I appreciate most about it.


I just wanted to jump back to this: have you heard the Innuos Statement? Or serious efforts from other manufacturers? I'm always curious to see how these things compare across brands (and their quite different approaches). I ask because a friend with an Innuos Statement is doing some upgrades (including a fully-loaded Sean Jacobs DC4 power supply for his DAVE).


----------



## kennyb123 (Jul 28, 2021)

frankensmurf said:


> I just wanted to jump back to this: have you heard the Innuos Statement? Or serious efforts from other manufacturers? I'm always curious to see how these things compare across brands (and their quite different approaches). I ask because a friend with an Innuos Statement is doing some upgrades (including a fully-loaded Sean Jacobs DC4 power supply for his DAVE).



I previously owned an Innuos Zenith Mk3.  I opted to move to an Antipodes K30 instead of moving up to the Statement.  There were many reasons for this:

Low power CPUs like the ones in the Innuos servers were reported to be not be as capable of dynamics and transient speed as the higher power ones.
Roon’s sound quality degraded too much on my Zenith so I hoped the two-tier architecture of Antipodes might lessen the degradation
Innuos promised a Mk3 upgrade to my former Zenith Mk2.  I was put on a list in 2019 to receive an email once the upgrade was available. That email never came.
Innuos lacked the ability to run HQPlayer.  I wanted to be able to sell my MScaler to be able to fund the purchase of a better server.
Innuos at the time only had one method to play my music files that were upsampled to 768k:  Roon.  Now they have two. Antipodes has three and should hopefully soon support a fourth.
Innuos makes great servers but Antipodes is a far better match for me.  Note how transparent Antipodes is now about available upgrades.  It’s hugely important to me that my box has a future beyond what I paid for it.  The installed software suite exceeded expectations and is a big step up from what Innuos offered (and is still offering).  And it’s soon to get even better.  And the sound quality is just phenomenal.  A friend who came to visit recently wrote:  “And the Antipodes K30 appears to have brought some delicious tonal richness and weight to the party. Really well done.”


----------



## atya35mm

Hi all, just got the K30/S20 delivered and currently messing around with it. Anyone noticed the UBS 2.0 out is flimsy? As in the USB cable I have can easily slide in and out without much friction. Certainly very different to how I experience other typical USB ports. The sound is playing though so seems to hold connection. 

Currently using the Roon server / Squeezelite player combo. Is there a better combo for best sound quality? Thanks all.


----------



## Triode User

atya35mm said:


> Hi all, just got the K30/S20 delivered and currently messing around with it. Anyone noticed the UBS 2.0 out is flimsy? As in the USB cable I have can easily slide in and out without much friction. Certainly very different to how I experience other typical USB ports. The sound is playing though so seems to hold connection.
> 
> Currently using the Roon server / Squeezelite player combo. Is there a better combo for best sound quality? Thanks all.


I have had a real go a Antipodes over that flimsy USB output. I got a spurious response saying they had selected that particular USB output socket for its sound quality after doing listening tests. Mine was so loose that the USB cable kept falling out. Antipodes referred me to a YouTube video where a guy bent the prongs on a laptop usb socket to make it a tighter fit but two minutes after doing that the usb socket was back to being loose. In the end my dealer gave me a new K50 but the socket on this new one is not much better.

The usb socket is just a cheap and nasty substandard fitting. It is not soldered onto any main board and could easily be changed as a retrofit item by Antipodes if they were so minded. I must say the unwillingness of Antipodes to acknowledge the problems with the robustness of the usb socket and to try and fob me off with some story about it being the best sounding one they could find is laughable. There are after all just four gold plated prongs inside. I really hope Antipodes will come to their senses and offer a retrofit replacement USB output socket. Maybe more owners need to complain.

Rant over.

As to your question about server / player apps for playback it might be worth delaying a response on that until the new 3.1 software is available at the end of July. Currently though for standard resolution files I prefer Squeeze/Squeezelite to output to my Mscaler, definitely not using Roon as that detracts from sound quality. 

But as I say, it may change when we get the 3.1 software.


----------



## atya35mm

Triode User said:


> I have had a real go a Antipodes over that flimsy USB output. I got a spurious response saying they had selected that particular USB output socket for its sound quality after doing listening tests. Mine was so loose that the USB cable kept falling out. Antipodes referred me to a YouTube video where a guy bent the prongs on a laptop usb socket to make it a tighter fit but two minutes after doing that the usb socket was back to being loose. In the end my dealer gave me a new K50 but the socket on this new one is not much better.
> 
> The usb socket is just a cheap and nasty substandard fitting. It is not soldered onto any main board and could easily be changed as a retrofit item by Antipodes if they were so minded. I must say the unwillingness of Antipodes to acknowledge the problems with the robustness of the usb socket and to try and fob me off with some story about it being the best sounding one they could find is laughable. There are after all just four gold plated prongs inside. I really hope Antipodes will come to their senses and offer a retrofit replacement USB output socket. Maybe more owners need to complain.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the quick response. Wow that is not great for antipodes. I mean these are +$10k servers so what are they thinking with including a flimsy loose 2.0 usb output to go with it. I suppose for your K50 you can easily use other output, I'm stuck with the usb output as I use that to connect to the S20. Really hope they do something with this. 

I've got no choice but to use the USB for now, but not 100% sure if the loose usb impacts sound quality or not, as that's the only output that can be used out of the K30.


----------



## Triode User

atya35mm said:


> Thanks for the quick response. Wow that is not great for antipodes. I mean these are +$10k servers so what are they thinking with including a flimsy loose 2.0 usb output to go with it. I suppose for your K50 you can easily use other output, I'm stuck with the usb output as I use that to connect to the S20. Really hope they do something with this.
> 
> I've got no choice but to use the USB for now, but not 100% sure if the loose usb impacts sound quality or not, as that's the only output that can be used out of the K30.


Antipodes will say that they selected the usb socket because of its sound quality so you do not need to be concerned about sound quality. However the sound quality is not brilliant when the usb cable falls out. 

Email Mark Coles at Antipodes and register your unhappiness about the usb socket. My dealer immediately know what I was complaining about because they said the usb cable kept falling out of their demo model.

It wouldn’t have been so bad if the socket had been recessed more and if the hole in the case had been not so big to give some support.


----------



## kennyb123

atya35mm said:


> Hi all, just got the K30/S20 delivered and currently messing around with it. Anyone noticed the UBS 2.0 out is flimsy? As in the USB cable I have can easily slide in and out without much friction. Certainly very different to how I experience other typical USB ports. The sound is playing though so seems to hold connection.



Similar situation with the K30, but I was also worried about the strain a heavy cable would place on it.  A Stillpoints Aperture panel behind my rack is helping reduce the strain.


----------



## Whazzzup

Had to put a stand to support my ac 12 power cable into my dx3. Course it’s a ridiculous stiff and heavy cable but it would pop the power plug right out of the server. All’s well tho


----------



## atya35mm

kennyb123 said:


> Similar situation with the K30, but I was also worried about the strain a heavy cable would place on it.  A Stillpoints Aperture panel behind my rack is helping reduce the strain.


Now that's a chunky USB cable. Good workaround!


----------



## seeteeyou

Better be safe than sorry, someone actually got his Chord DAVE replaced by a brand new unit because of the weight of his Siltech USB cable

http://www.headphoneclub.com/thread-508404-1-1.html

Their USB Type-A connectors might not look all that "substantial" if you will, sooner or later we'll end up with a loosen socket because of the strain

https://www.siltechcables.com/hifi-statement-siltech-usb-audio-cables/


Spoiler: USB










Same deal with an adapter or a coupler


Spoiler: USB


----------



## atya35mm

Hi all, been fumbling around trying to get MPD to work. The v3.0 manual I have, I can’t seem to find the information required to get MPD working. 

What I’ve done so far: 
- Enable MPD as player
- Currently has Roon as server app, clicking on MPD server it doesn’t have much information other than MPD player is all you need
- install mConnectPlayer on my ipad
- I’m able to select K30player, however when trying to play something from tidal selection, the song won’t play, and stuck at 0 second

Any idea what went wrong here? Have fumbled for the last 30 mins and not getting anywhere. Thanks in advance.


----------



## cczero17

atya35mm said:


> Hi all, been fumbling around trying to get MPD to work. The v3.0 manual I have, I can’t seem to find the information required to get MPD working.
> 
> What I’ve done so far:
> - Enable MPD as player
> ...


I'm of the understanding that it only works with saved content. It doesn't work with streaming content in Qobuz or Tidal for example...could be wrong thoug


----------



## atya35mm

cczero17 said:


> I'm of the understanding that it only works with saved content. It doesn't work with streaming content in Qobuz or Tidal for example...could be wrong thoug


Ok maybe that's why. I managed to get the ssd tracks to play. The Tidal tracks are still stuck. But all good, as long as I can play the ssd ones for now I'm happy.


----------



## Bling23

Hi Antipodes owners

What connection do you find sound best on specifically your K devices into your DAC's. Would it be silly to use the network connection into Network enabled DAC and use it as Roon end point. My DAC is Weiss 501 and has this option.
Has anybody tried Mutec clocker another clock to reclock from K to DAC.
What player software do you use I am using Squeeze/Roon but heard others sound much better
Thanks


----------



## Bling23

atya35mm said:


> Hi all, just got the K30/S20 delivered and currently messing around with it. Anyone noticed the UBS 2.0 out is flimsy? As in the USB cable I have can easily slide in and out without much friction. Certainly very different to how I experience other typical USB ports. The sound is playing though so seems to hold connection.
> 
> Currently using the Roon server / Squeezelite player combo. Is there a better combo for best sound quality? Thanks all.


My K50 is the same I though it was actually broken so I mailed the dealer with a video and I got what now seems to be the standard line that Antipodes chose this to sound the best. Its actually surprising it works given how loose the connection is.


----------



## frankensmurf (Aug 3, 2021)

Bling23 said:


> Hi Antipodes owners
> 
> What connection do you find sound best on specifically your K devices into your DAC's. Would it be silly to use the network connection into Network enabled DAC and use it as Roon end point. My DAC is Weiss 501 and has this option.
> Has anybody tried Mutec clocker another clock to reclock from K to DAC.
> ...


Every DAC is different.. For most DACs, some inputs sound better than others. This is the appeal of the K50 -- you can try AES, HDMI, SPDIF, etc., and see input which sounds best on your DAC.

Ideally you can get equivalent-quality cables for the comparison. Also keep in mind your different inputs may support different resolutions. Typically USB and Ethernet support the highest formats / bitrates -- but don't let this be a distraction. AES or another input might sound substantially better for the redbook to 24/192 music you probably listen to 99% of the time.

Re: your Weiss, I would be surprised if the ethernet input (even fed from the K50) sounds better than USB or AES, but try it! YMMV.  My CX / EX / Innuos Phoenix / P2 (via HDMI) sounded better than either the Tambaqui built-in ethernet or the PS Audio DirectStream Bridge II.


----------



## Bling23

12grayclouds said:


> The K50 has two separate IP addresses for the server player.
> Could be a NAT issue.
> What are the makes and models of your modem router switch etc


I have a Vodaphone cellular network ( not wired ) with Hauwai router


----------



## Bling23

frankensmurf said:


> Every DAC is different.. For most DACs, some inputs sound better than others. This is the appeal of the K50 -- you can try AES, HDMI, SPDIF, etc., and see input which sounds best on your DAC.
> 
> Ideally you can get equivalent-quality cables for the comparison. Also keep in mind your different inputs may support different resolutions. Typically USB and Ethernet support the highest formats / bitrates -- but don't let this be a distraction. AES or another input might sound substantially better for the redbook to 24/192 music you probably listen to 99% of the time.
> 
> Re: your Weiss, I would be surprised if the ethernet input (even fed from the K50) sound better than UEB or AES, but try it! YMMV.  My CX / EX / P2 (via HDMI) sounded better than either the Tambaqui built-in ethernet or the PS Audio DirectStream Bridge II.


Yes that's certainly true of the K50 having the options to try and of coarse if DAC supports but using say Ethernet and your DAC as an end point would render the K50 player basically obsolete but using say USB or AES would not or am I getting this wrong. Thanks


----------



## Bling23

Hi all,

What players are you using with your Antipodes. I would like to try HQPlayer as I have heard it sounds better than Roon/Squeeze. Is it difficult to set up, anyone A/B test the sound quality.
Thanks


----------



## Triode User

Bling23 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> What players are you using with your Antipodes. I would like to try HQPlayer as I have heard it sounds better than Roon/Squeeze. Is it difficult to set up, anyone A/B test the sound quality.
> Thanks


Anything soumds better than Roon/Squeeze to my ears.

Have you tried Squeeze on the Server and Squeeze on the Player? Many think this is the best sound quality but at the price of loss of convenience. Use the Material web browser for file selection or iPeng.

This is obviously until we get the new Antipodes 3.2 software hopefully some time in teh next few days then we will have to see what extra options are open to us (Minimserver for instance).


----------



## atya35mm

Thought I provide update after 2 days messing around with the K30/S20. I managed to find best quality doing the below: 

Upgraded Qobuz to sublime and start purchasing high res tracks. Transfer the high res files to K30. Set up K30player as MPD player. Use Mconnect player HD from iPad to play the downloaded tracks. The sound quality is very noticeable step up from using Roon / Squeeze to play the same track from the same SSD. I haven’t done much extensive a/b testing, but quick impressions seem to be playing off the SSD is much better than streaming. And MPD providing the best sound quality to my ears. 

As for Squeeze server / Squeeze player combo, I need to come back to this at some point. Initially when trying this combo after the Roon / Squeeze combo, I thought there is a step up in quality. However, after more listening, I find the treble energy seems quite strong, almost bright. Switching back to Roon / Squeeze combo seems to warm up the sound. So for now have moved away from Squeeze / squeeze. 

I just managed to set up HQplayer today, so haven’t had much experience with this yet. Might try the HQPcontrol? / HQplayer combo to see whether it surpass the MPD combo mentioned above.


----------



## Bling23

Triode User said:


> Anything soumds better than Roon/Squeeze to my ears.
> 
> Have you tried Squeeze on the Server and Squeeze on the Player? Many think this is the best sound quality but at the price of loss of convenience. Use the Material web browser for file selection or iPeng.
> 
> This is obviously until we get the new Antipodes 3.2 software hopefully some time in teh next few days then we will have to see what extra options are open to us (Minimserver for instance).


Hi no I haven't tried but I will take a look. Yes I hearing a lot that Squeeze/Roon is better than Roon but still a not the best option. I was only using as I like the Roon interface etc. Is it difficult to get set up? Im having network problems with K50 which are unresolved and I don't want to loose what I have.
Thanks for reply.


----------



## Bling23

atya35mm said:


> Thought I provide update after 2 days messing around with the K30/S20. I managed to find best quality doing the below:
> 
> Upgraded Qobuz to sublime and start purchasing high res tracks. Transfer the high res files to K30. Set up K30player as MPD player. Use Mconnect player HD from iPad to play the downloaded tracks. The sound quality is very noticeable step up from using Roon / Squeeze to play the same track from the same SSD. I haven’t done much extensive a/b testing, but quick impressions seem to be playing off the SSD is much better than streaming. And MPD providing the best sound quality to my ears.
> 
> ...


Good on you for trying the various options out. I just tried Ethernet from K50 to DAC and use DAC and Roon Ready end point. This actually sounds good but renders 2/3 of K50 redundant. Then I tried Roon/Squeeze and that's what ive been using for a while as I've read its better than Roon alone. Would be interested to hear how you go with HQ player. Thanks for reply


----------



## atya35mm

Yes that's the tricky part about trying to utilize all of the unit's capability. If you have the K50, I reckon you should try to use AES, SPDIF, or i2s to benefit from the re-clocking function, effectively the s20 unit.


----------



## Bling23

Triode User said:


> Anything soumds better than Roon/Squeeze to my ears.
> 
> Have you tried Squeeze on the Server and Squeeze on the Player? Many think this is the best sound quality but at the price of loss of convenience. Use the Material web browser for file selection or iPeng.
> 
> This is obviously until we get the new Antipodes 3.2 software hopefully some time in teh next few days then we will have to see what extra options are open to us (Minimserver for instance).


This is a major jump in SQ!!! like seriously a major jump not a subtle thing, it sounds amazing. Thanks for the tip here. I think I have it set up ok but Ipeng asks me to switch to Roon app ? is this for searching as I don't seem to be able to search on Ipeng app.Thanks for help


----------



## Bling23

atya35mm said:


> Yes that's the tricky part about trying to utilize all of the unit's capability. If you have the K50, I reckon you should try to use AES, SPDIF, or i2s to benefit from the re-clocking function, effectively the s20 unit.


My God the jump in SQ is mind-blowing using Squeeze/Squeeze. I think I have it all set up correctly but not sure 😁, alls I know is that it sounds amazing, could you have a look at my screenshots, what I don't understand is that Ipeng asks to switch to Roon app, is this normal? thanks so much.


----------



## Triode User (Jul 31, 2021)

Bling23 said:


> My God the jump in SQ is mind-blowing using Squeeze/Squeeze. I think I have it all set up correctly but not sure 😁, alls I know is that it sounds amazing, could you have a look at my screenshots, what I don't understand is that Ipeng asks to switch to Roon app, is this normal? thanks so much.


The screenshots look good to me.

iPeng is just giving you the option to switch to Roon, it is not asking you to do it.

Glad I could help.

Like I say, more maybe to come with the update to the 3.1 software soon. Not long now.


----------



## Bling23

Triode User said:


> The screenshots look good to me.
> 
> iPeng is just giving you the option to switch to Roon, it is not asking you to do it.
> 
> ...


Yes but even when I switch the SQ improvement is retained which is really strange. Squeeze is selected in player/server so no sure where Roon comes into the mix.Thats what's confusing me a little. Hopefully 3.1 will bring other options. Ill keep a eye here as im sure owner will post. To be honest im learning as I go and not the most experienced with it all but I know what my ears hear 😁


----------



## Progisus (Jul 31, 2021)

Squeeze will let you use Tidal and Qobuz. Once you upgrade 705/768 as well. With 2.8 on my EX I have Squeeze - 705/768 which works well for PGGB. MPD direct is a bit better imho. Still loving Roon / Hqplayer for convenience.


----------



## magnuska

So has anybody received the 3.1 update yet?


----------



## kennyb123

magnuska said:


> So has anybody received the 3.1 update yet?


I was wondering as well.  I think I’ve checked at least once a day over the last couple weeks to see if the update was available.


----------



## magnuska

kennyb123 said:


> I was wondering as well.  I think I’ve checked at least once a day over the last couple weeks to see if the update was available.


So it Will show Up in myantipodes?


----------



## kennyb123

magnuska said:


> So it Will show Up in myantipodes?


That’s my understanding. Sorry to cause you to start checking there regularly.  😀


----------



## magnuska

kennyb123 said:


> That’s my understanding. Sorry to cause you to start checking there regularly.  😀


Ha ha No problem. 👍😀


----------



## Triode User

kennyb123 said:


> That’s my understanding. Sorry to cause you to start checking there regularly.  😀



Well this is the ‘end of July’. 

Things normally do slip so hopefully there will be an update at the ‘start of August’. 😜


----------



## Triode User

There have been a couple of responses on the Antipodes chat room that make me think that the 3.1 update is maybe August sometime, one yesterday saying 'in the next few weeks'.

I guess we all will prefer it to be as best sorted as possible rather than released too early.


----------



## Bling23

For anyone interested in my original post re what players you all use, K50 can run multiple cores at the same time hence why I was still seeing Roon as player but Squeeze  selected. A core needs to be deselected rather that just switching to another core. Thanks


----------



## Triode User

Bling23 said:


> For anyone interested in my original post re what players you all use, K50 can run multiple cores at the same time hence why I was still seeing Roon as player but Squeeze  selected. A core needs to be deselected rather that just switching to another core. Thanks


Good tip.

I uninstall all apps that I am not using to make sure I don’t have them running by mistake.


----------



## cczero17

This is probably a very dumb question....but hey, if I dont ask im not going to know lol.....

Can the P1 rip the stereo SACD layer from an SACD?


----------



## kennyb123

cczero17 said:


> Can the P1 rip the stereo SACD layer from an SACD?



Extremely unlikely.


----------



## seeteeyou

These guys managed to figure it out on their own, though we're talking about a company with 400 employees

https://www.audioexotics.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/TAS-Wadax.pdf#page=13
https://www.hifinext.com/wadax-atlantis-transport-thor-1-3-drive-wadax-link-and-vibration-meter/


> The novelty also supports the SACD RIP function, when the contents of the disk are copied to a USB flash drive. However, according to Wadax, this feature is intended for research purposes and is not available as standard. To enable it, you must enter a special service code.



In other words, maybe it ain't all that surprising if they're actually having access to certain things that other rivals (even Taiko Audio) could only dream of. All music servers out there should be only as good as what general-purpose CPUs could actually achieve, while the possibilities of ASICs should be virtually unlimited IMHO.

Of course they might have simply obtained the SDK from MediaTek as I mentioned below and then the rest was history

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/...s-true/page/219/?tab=comments#comment-1148395


----------



## cczero17

kennyb123 said:


> Extremely unlikely.


Really? I thought it would rip SACDs. Well there you go cheers


----------



## kennyb123

cczero17 said:


> Really? I thought it would rip SACDs. Well there you go cheers


I use an inexpensive Sony blu-ray player to rip mine.  I wish it was easier but I really can’t complain.


----------



## frankensmurf

Triode User said:


> i thought I was also perhaps happy with Roon + HQP on the k50. This was using HQP + NAA but with no up sampling, in other words just using the player function of HQP + NAA. But then i swopped to HQPD for file selection instead of Roon 1.8 and realised I was fooling myself into thinking Roon was listenable to. Even worse was using Roon on the k50 server and Roon on the k50 player.


I just want to probe on this a bit. I am in the middle of trying to get Roon & HQP (CX) > NAA (EX) > Innuos Phoenix > P2 > HDMI > PS Audio DirectStream working. 

In your opinion, Roon (CX) to Roon Ready (EX) is the worst I'm assuming. 
>> Have you tried Roon (CX) to Squeezelight? This is what I'm using now, and it's noticeably / substantially better than Roon Ready.
Next level up in SQ, if I guess correctly, is Roon & HQP (CX) > NAA (EX)? 
And you are saying that (for local file playback anyway) turning off Roon Server and using the (very basic) HQP UI to load and play files is noticeably / substantially better than Roon/HQP > NAA?

Sigh. Please confirm, and I will experiment with that. : ) 

Has anyone else confirmed the same? It's not that I don't believe it, I'm just tired of messing around.  : D  
And of course the Roon UI is much more pleasant.


----------



## frankensmurf

frankensmurf said:


> I am in the middle of trying to get Roon & HQP (CX) > NAA (EX) > Innuos Phoenix > P2 > HDMI > PS Audio DirectStream working.


And, sorry, separate question i guess: 
Since my DAC does its own complicated oversampling, I am actually just looking to get bit-perfect playback of PCM and DSD (that sounds better than Roon) out of HQPlayer, at least initially. Anyone know what settings I should be using? 

I have playback of redbook right now, but I can't get anything highres to play. : /


----------



## frankensmurf

frankensmurf said:


> And, sorry, separate question i guess:
> Since my DAC does its own complicated oversampling, I am actually just looking to get bit-perfect playback of PCM and DSD (that sounds better than Roon) out of HQPlayer...


And, apologies for all the questions at once: given that I'm not looking for upsampling from HQP, which Antipodes player / renderer provides the best sound quality (and secondarily the easiest setup / reasonably good UX)?

Thanks.


----------



## atya35mm

frankensmurf said:


> I just want to probe on this a bit. I am in the middle of trying to get Roon & HQP (CX) > NAA (EX) > Innuos Phoenix > P2 > HDMI > PS Audio DirectStream working.
> 
> In your opinion, Roon (CX) to Roon Ready (EX) is the worst I'm assuming.
> >> Have you tried Roon (CX) to Squeezelight? This is what I'm using now, and it's noticeably / substantially better than Roon Ready.
> ...


Hi there, I did quite a bit of messing around since I got the K30, and following Triode's and Clive's posts in this thread. 

What I found is similar to Triode User, where Roon Server / Player seem to be the darkest / warm / muddy sounding combo. Roon / Squeeze is much better with overall music getting quite a bit brighter. Although from previous post by Triode, it seems Roon is creating lots of traffic and performance use in the background.  

I can confirm this, where using CPU load diagnostic tool in the my antipodes page, the CPU load for all 4 cores jump up to 7 - 12 %, sometimes 20% when I just use an iPad to browse Roon, and going through different pages, albums etc. So this confirms that Roon is using quite a bit of performance and probably sending quite a bit of network data so you can speedily browse it's very nice interface that you pay for. 

And from what I can tell, SQ wise, it's best to keep CPU and Network traffic as low as possible. 

So if I ever want to get as much SQ out as possible, I would switch to using MPD as player, and downloading an iPad app called "mconnectHD" to browse the music. It seems to work easier than getting HQPcontrol to work. The music just pops up automatically in mconnect vs HQPcontrol where you have to go HQP interface to do a manual refresh. I have to anyway in my basic understanding of how the app works. Using this combo, the server computer CPU load stays around 0 - 2% sometimes 3%. 

Anyway, my 2 cents. Hope this helps.


----------



## kennyb123

frankensmurf said:


> Since my DAC does its own complicated oversampling, I am actually just looking to get bit-perfect playback of PCM and DSD (that sounds better than Roon) out of HQPlayer, at least initially. Anyone know what settings I should be using?
> 
> I have playback of redbook right now, but I can't get anything highres to play. : /


I would skip HQPlayer because your DAC does its own scaling.  Roon/Squeeze is about the best Roon will sound.  I believe there is a video on Antipodes' website describing how to set it up.  

I agree though with @atya35mm above that MPD is the best sound quality.  You lose the feature richness of Roon but gain much better sound quality.


----------



## Progisus

Will AMS3.1 by itself (no EX/CX upgrade) bring a sonic improvement over sonicorbiter 2.7/2.8 or just a different gui?


----------



## Clive101

atya35mm said:


> Hi there, I did quite a bit of messing around since I got the K30, and following Triode's and Clive's posts in this thread.
> 
> What I found is similar to Triode User, where Roon Server / Player seem to be the darkest / warm / muddy sounding combo. Roon / Squeeze is much better with overall music getting quite a bit brighter. Although from previous post by Triode, it seems Roon is creating lots of traffic and performance use in the background.
> 
> ...


Strange....

OK,  I have the K50 but only have 0-1 % on the sever with Roon and 0-1% on the player with squeezelite.

My CPUs are almost idle. There is now way this should be ongoing 7-12% 

The odd occasion the usage is similar on the server with Roon but it is a glitch and I have to power off and on then the problem is sorted.
The issue is with Roon stop it under the software and restart sometimes it also resolves the issue.

For the avoidance of doubt my K50 is at room temperature. 

Had the same issue a few times.

Has anyone else had the same issue ?


----------



## frankensmurf

kennyb123 said:


> I would skip HQPlayer because your DAC does its own scaling.  Roon/Squeeze is about the best Roon will sound.  I believe there is a video on Antipodes' website describing how to set it up.
> 
> I agree though with @atya35mm above that MPD is the best sound quality.  You lose the feature richness of Roon but gain much better sound quality.


Thank you both. I've spent $8.49 on mconnect for iPhone and another $8.49 lol for the iPad version (I wish my other tweaks cost this much) and have TIDAL and Qobuz playing through the EX MPD player. 

I've installed DLNA Server and Bubble UPnP on the CX (and disabled the horrifying default public internet share in Bubble) and I'm playing local (CX) high-res PCM files. The SQ is definitely good; I will keep listening as my confirmation bias is hopping up and down right now. I cannot play DSF files -- they are simply not shown in the mconnect HD UI. Does anyone know if this is possible? I can't find any settings related to DoP or whatever in this app.

Meanwhile, the user experience of navigating through my badly-organized folders leaves much to be desired. Roon will certainly still have a place for parties / casual listening. I can certainly improve the mconnect UX with some playlists and favorites, but it obv only goes so far.

I will investigate HQP setups for bit-perfect / non-upsampled playback and report back here -- to me this is the optimal combination of excellent SQ (I hope?) and the deliciously easy Roon UX.


----------



## magnuska

Progisus said:


> Will AMS3.1 by itself (no EX/CX upgrade) bring a sonic improvement over sonicorbiter 2.7/2.8 or just a different gui?


I really hope that. Like Innuos did with their new 2.0 software. Most users I have seen says SQ improved there.


----------



## atya35mm

Clive101 said:


> Strange....
> 
> OK,  I have the K50 but only have 0-1 % on the sever with Roon and 0-1% on the player with squeezelite.
> 
> ...


It does seem excessive although that’s just my experience from one listening session. Where I quickly flip between myantipodes cpu usage and roon to see how browsing roon impacts performance. The jump to 7-12 % only lasted few seconds after browsing Roon, and settles back to 2-4% if I didn’t flip back to Roon on the iPad. I could probably do more testing on this to see if it’s a glitch like you said, but currently loving it too much just using MPD playing local SSD files. 

I’m really liking the quality of SSD vs. streaming of the net at the moment. It could be because I haven’t spend any $ optimising my network connection. The K30 just gets connected via the black stock ethernet cable it comes with to my wireless network point. Have you guys got good experience with buying good quality after market cables? With the costs of some of these cables like the AQ Vodka / Shunyata range, I’m debating whether I should just use the fund to buy more high res albums to add to the SSD collection. Qobuz having some nice discounts at the moment.


----------



## frankensmurf (Nov 27, 2021)

atya35mm said:


> It does seem excessive although that’s just my experience from one listening session. Where I quickly flip between myantipodes cpu usage and roon to see how browsing roon impacts performance. The jump to 7-12 % only lasted few seconds after browsing Roon, and settles back to 2-4% if I didn’t flip back to Roon on the iPad. I could probably do more testing on this to see if it’s a glitch like you said, but currently loving it too much just using MPD playing local SSD files.
> 
> I’m really liking the quality of SSD vs. streaming of the net at the moment. It could be because I haven’t spend any $ optimising my network connection. The K30 just gets connected via the black stock ethernet cable it comes with to my wireless network point. Have you guys got good experience with buying good quality after market cables? With the costs of some of these cables like the AQ Vodka / Shunyata range, I’m debating whether I should just use the fund to buy more high res albums to add to the SSD collection. Qobuz having some nice discounts at the moment.


This is a fascinating topic. To the extent that we are implying that CPU usage is inversely related to SQ (which seems reasonable to this non-techie), should we be outsourcing heavy lifting (HQP upsampling certainly, and even Roon serving) to a different box which is disconnected from the (in my mind) more impactful renderer (i.e. the last thing that touches the DAC)? I'm curious in a sense how Antipodes would characterize their current top-line products when running HQP upsampling vs running barebones MPD / DLNA server (MinimServer i guess?).

I can confirm your impression of local file playback trumping streamed files. In my experience (and don't ask me to somehow prove this) the delta between local and streamed is smaller with high res files than with redbook. YMMV.

And in terms of cleaning up your network feed, absolutely yes. If you have trouble sleeping, somewhere above in this thread I've detailed some of my experiments. The TLDR is: Something like an EtherRegen makes a big difference, particularly the 'B' side which is a single, extra-isolated 100MBps ethernet port (the 'A' side has 4 gigabit ports, also cleaned up). In my case I actually put the CX on the A side and the EX on the B side, which I found to sound a bit better than plugging the CX into the B side and the EX into the second ethernet port on the CX. (that's pretty concerning if you think about it). There is an additional benefit to daisy-chaining two ERs -- I have another on order to put next to my router.

And... yes, even with an EtherRegen (I also have the Uptone LPS 1.5 powering it), upmarket cables make a difference. I previously used an AQ Cinnamon, then upgraded to an AQ Vodka -- worthwhile. Then an industry buddy brought over Nordost Blue Heaven, Heimdall 2, and Valhalla 2... The prices are stupid, but there were clear, surprising differences as we went up the line (both into AND out of the ER). Notably these improvements were audible playing back local as well as streaming files. (sigh)

Honestly for my money I would buy a good bang-for-buck $200 ethernet cable -- or a price point in line with the rest of your digital cables -- plus one ER. At that point I would say you have (very approximately speaking ) gotten rid of the worst of the problems coming through ethernet. It's still worth experimenting -- upgrade the PS, maybe play with clocks (the EtherRegen accepts an external 10MHz clock which some people say makes it the best thing since sliced bread; I haven't tried that yet), and better ethernet cables.

AFAIC this is all bad news -- do not try this stuff (partic kilobuck cables) unless you are comfortable with the spend. And obviously if your system isn't already very well tuned this is a waste of time/$.


----------



## Presence (Aug 11, 2021)

I just tried Roon Server[CX]/Squeeze[EX] for the first time last night. I heard a more open midrange and treble but it didn't seem to improve on transient and midrange blur that I am also used to with what I hear as a more closed in sound from Roon/RoonReady. Mark J mentioned the new power supply will significantly improve on transient delivery.

I don't mean to stir the pot here but last fall there was some talk from the US support center that a new LINUX version was out that would improve SQ but the upgrade needed to be performed at the service center. At the end of last year the story for the delay was that it needed to be regression tested/certified with the "new" Antipodes OS SW. No clarification was provided as to whether that was integration with 2.8 or the unannounced [at least to me at that time] AMS v3.1.
The topic of the new LINUX update seemed to fade away and I recently inquired about it with Mark Cole. His response was that the SQ improvements were to come from the PS upgrade and my inquiry pertaining to a factory performed LINUX upgrade was not responded to. Since [per Mark C] the AMS v3.1 will be pushed out to existing CX/EX users who don't send their units in, I presume there is no new LINUX update. Perhaps this was only a smoldering rumor that I picked up from last year.

I was looking in the CX Roon Server Diagnostic Event Log line items for the % processor usage and didn't see it. Any clarification to help me find it would be appreciated.
Also, on Antipodes' website, with the MPD support video "under construction", what is the recommended server option and how do you transfer files from the music library to a "playlist"? Is the "Playlist" location part of the MPD renderer app?
Sorry for the basic questions...


----------



## frankensmurf

Presence said:


> I was looking in the CX Roon Server Diagnostic Event Log line items for the % processor usage and didn't see it. Any clarification to help me find it would be appreciated.
> Also, on Antipodes' website, with the MPD support video "under construction", what is the recommended server option and how do you transfer files from the music library to a "playlist"? Is the "Playlist" location part of the MPD renderer app?
> Sorry for the basic questions...


I just figured this out.. it is NOT straighforward lol (at least not compared to Roon). 

If you have an EX, install MPD/DLNA, and set it as your player. If you only have the CX, install it there. Download mconnect HD (the free version works to try it out) on an iphone or ipad on the same network. Once you've selected MPD on your player (EX or CX) you should be able to see the 'Antipodes' Player in the 'Play To' feature on mconnect. You may have to switch players on the Antipodes and restart the app a couple times, but it worked eventually. 

To play back local files, you have to install MinimServer or DLNA or Bubble UPnP server on your CX. Once that's installed and running it will show up in the 'Browse' screen of mconnect.


----------



## Progisus

Presence said:


> I just tried Roon Server[CX]/Squeeze[EX] for the first time last night. I heard a more open midrange and treble but it didn't seem to improve on transient and midrange blur that I am also used to with what I hear as a more closed in sound from Roon/RoonReady. Mark J mentioned the new power supply will significantly improve on transient delivery.
> 
> I don't mean to stir the pot here but last fall there was some talk from the US support center that a new LINUX version was out that would improve SQ but the upgrade needed to be performed at the service center. At the end of last year the story for the delay was that it needed to be regression tested/certified with the "new" Antipodes OS SW. No clarification was provided as to whether that was integration with 2.8 or the unannounced [at least to me at that time] AMS v3.1.
> The topic of the new LINUX update seemed to fade away and I recently inquired about it with Mark Cole. His response was that the SQ improvements were to come from the PS upgrade and my inquiry pertaining to a factory performed LINUX upgrade was not responded to. Since [per Mark C] the AMS v3.1 will be pushed out to existing CX/EX users who don't send their units in, I presume there is no new LINUX update. Perhaps this was only a smoldering rumor that I picked up from last year.
> ...


I did the 2.7 to 2.8 upgrade a year ago. I did not notice a sonic upgrade. The software player upgrades were definitely worth it. I have had many hqplayer updates and some mpd. MPD does not require a server and using a controller app will provide direct play which is the best sonics imho.


----------



## richardloh

naynay said:


> I see no point in buying an expensive network switch like say the Etherregen if you have the CX-EX combo as the CX acts as the network switch to eliminate noise before it enters the EX.
> Sent my Etherregen back as heard no difference and after talking to Tony of Antipodes he has said the CX when combined with EX is designed to do just that.


Hi,

Somehow missed this post but my experience differs and ymmv as usual due to system dependencies  ... etheregen made an obvious improvement for my cx/ex stack on streaming from full flac internet radio stations and less so from low quality local streaming stations.

Added the AfterDark double emperor clock and yet another arguably even more obvious improvement ... audio files resides in 2x 4tb ssd on cx as server and no difference since I had yet to have 2nd etheregen between cx server and ex player.

In conclusion, I absolutely have no doubt etheregen and/or better clock like AD solves what  ex and cx stack did not in MY system setup and encourage Antipodes owners of cx and/or ex to try out in their system if opportunity arises ...

Let see how well upgraded of cx+ex performs when I receive them in next few weeks.

Cheers.

Richard


----------



## Progisus

Anybody seen the 3.1 upgrade pushout yet? Middle of August.


----------



## Presence

Progisus said:


> Anybody seen the 3.1 upgrade pushout yet? Middle of August


----------



## Presence (Aug 14, 2021)

According to Mark Cole, as of 8/10, none of the CX/EX upgrades had shipped out yet. He expected the first upgrades to go out with 3.1 sometime this last week...

Pertaining to EtherRegen, I found the most significant improvement between CX and EX compared to incoming from the network to the CX when I preferred playing from my CX-based library over Qobuz streaming. I later added a second EtherRegen from network to CX and have gone back and forth listening between library and Qobuz versions and the differences are insignificant to my ears given my overall playback impression that the CX/EX combo produces smearing in the midrange which I have a high level of confidence that the power supply upgrade will add significant improvements.
On another note, I felt there was a meaningful SQ improvement from 2.7 to 2.8.

The Innuos Phoenix USB Regen as well as a good 10Mhz timing source to the EtherRegens were both important upgrades to SQ.


----------



## Triode User (Aug 14, 2021)

Presence said:


> According to Mark Cole, as of 8/10, none of the CX/EX upgrades had shipped out yet. He expected the first upgrades to go out with 3.1 sometime this last week..


@Progisus He is ignoring questions asking about an update for the date for 3.1 on the Antipodes website Chatroom which is never a good idea.

Innuos learned with their 2.0 development that it is always better to post regular (weekly) updates even if it is only to say things are running behind the predicted schedule. We are all (mostly) adults and we know stuff runs late but silence is bad PR.

Just my 2p / 2c.


----------



## Triode User (Aug 15, 2021)

Triode User said:


> @Progisus He is ignoring questions asking about an update for the date for 3.1 on the Antipodes website Chatroom which is never a good idea.
> 
> Innuos learned with their 2.0 development that it is always better to post regular (weekly) updates even if it is only to say things are running behind the predicted schedule. We are all (mostly) adults and we know stuff runs late but silence is bad PR.
> 
> Just my 2p / 2c.


I don’t know if Mark reads this thread but he has just posted in the Antipodes chat room saying they need another 2 to 3 weeks to fine tune the mechanics of the over air update to 3.1. He says the return of the updated cx/ex units will not be delayed by this and they will start shipping back to owners in the coming week so it sounds like the actual 3.1 is done but they are literally dealing with the roll out.

Mark, if you do read on here then many thanks for the update. It is very welcome.


----------



## richardloh

Hi,

How to post discussion msg in the chat room? Signed up and clicked on discussion to only be told I cannot access ?  TIA.

Cheers.


----------



## richardloh (Aug 16, 2021)

Hi,

Perhaps while awaiting for any good advice, anyone had successfully tried suitable pcie card with "better" oxco clock to replace stock ex's as player for usb output ?

No idea on space constraint/suitability but for e.g. pink faun pcie card with oxco clock ...

This arises on the significant SQ improvement in both having upgraded from std Terminator dac with femto clock to Terminator Plus with oxco clock as well as having etheregen's internal clock similarly bypassed by Afterdark's oxco clock ... something not experienced by cablings, power conditioning etc. but more like component change .. to higher pedigree aka $.

Cheers.


----------



## Triode User

richardloh said:


> Hi,
> 
> How to post discussion msg in the chat room? Signed up and clicked on discussion to only be told I cannot access ?  TIA.
> 
> Cheers.


Are you on this screen? If so you will be automatically logged in as a guest and allocated a random name. You can click on that and alter it to your own name. Then just type where it says ‘type and send message’. Then press Send to submit the message.


----------



## Presence

S60 Power Supply for EtherRegen - I'm curious to know what effect an S60 would have powering an EtherRegen if anyone has the opportunity to try it out ...


----------



## richardloh

Triode User said:


> Are you on this screen? If so you will be automatically logged in as a guest and allocated a random name. You can click on that and alter it to your own name. Then just type where it says ‘type and send message’. Then press Send to submit the message.



Hi Triode,

Thanks but kindly provide link to this page and hope not on facebook that I do not subscribe to .... no, I had not see your screenshot page but only the below forum and discussion thread that I cannot post when I access antipodes audio's official site.

Thanks again 🙏


----------



## Triode User

richardloh said:


> Hi Triode,
> 
> Thanks but kindly provide link to this page and hope not on facebook that I do not subscribe to .... no, I had not see your screenshot page but only the below forum and discussion thread that I cannot post when I access antipodes audio's official site.
> 
> Thanks again 🙏


try the link 
https://antipodes.audio/latest/

I get there by going to MyAntipodes and clicking on Support.

In the bottom right you should get a bubble saying Chat, 



click on that and a list of people online comes up. 



Click on Public Chatroom and a second small window should come up with the Chatroom conversation.


You will see that I have been automatically logged on and allocated guest name Maire. Click on the allocated guest name and you will be able to customise your guest name by clicking on the pencil icon.


Note this is not in the Forums and discussions area which I admit I have never been able to post on despite registering and logging in.

The Chat Room is better though because it is a direct route to speak to Mark in real time if he is logged on.

Hope this helps.


----------



## richardloh

Triode User said:


> try the link
> https://antipodes.audio/latest/
> 
> I get there by going to MyAntipodes and clicking on Support.
> ...


Hey Triode, 

Thanks a million ! 🙏🙏👏👏


----------



## magnuska

Was in at the chat room and Mark said NZ were going in to level 4 lockdown. Wonder if this will affect the roll out of 3.1?


----------



## Triode User

magnuska said:


> Was in at the chat room and Mark said NZ were going in to level 4 lockdown. Wonder if this will affect the roll out of 3.1?


Just heard on news but I thought it was only a 3 day period with 1 week for Aukland where they had the single positive test.


----------



## richardloh (Aug 20, 2021)

richardloh said:


> Hi,
> 
> Perhaps while awaiting for any good advice, anyone had successfully tried suitable pcie card with "better" oxco clock to replace stock ex's as player for usb output ?
> 
> ...


Hi,

Anyone ?

Seems Antipodes will not be looking into any oxco clock upgrade at least in the near future ... bought another Etheregen to have this done in ethernet cabling before cx and between ex and cx instead then.

Interestingly, one local dx user had his upgraded by sotm for a song in comparison to usd4k oladra upgrade for cx and ex and had shared obvious jump in sound quality as expected but cx and ex means 2x cost and may not even be possible like dx with much bigger box to accomodate the added pcba with oxco clock 😌

Cheers.

Richard


----------



## frankensmurf

richardloh said:


> Hi,
> 
> Anyone ?
> 
> ...


In the DAC landscape some manufactures, such as dCS, Esoteric, Mutec, and some pro-oriented brands, embrace the external clock architecture. Others such as Mola Mola, PS Audio (and I would guess most other brands) do not. 

In the world of switches, clock is obviously relevant (and almost certainly a more straightforward upgrade than in a complicated DAC topology). The ER is only one I'm aware of that readily accepts an external clock, which is a great idea. But if you're looking for high-accuracy reclocking in the Antipodes world, I'm assuming they're going to recommend an S20/K50. And if USB is your preferred output, you can always add a Phoenix Innuos (I can confirm a very reasonable improvement on my CX > ER > EX > P2) or full Mutec stack (which I haven't tried in my own system but was great elsewhere).

I generally leave it to manufacturers to decide the best way to optimize their designs, at least inside the box. But I'm not much of a tweaker.


----------



## richardloh (Aug 20, 2021)

frankensmurf said:


> In the DAC landscape some manufactures, such as dCS, Esoteric, Mutec, and some pro-oriented brands, embrace the external clock architecture. Others such as Mola Mola, PS Audio (and I would guess most other brands) do not.
> 
> In the world of switches, clock is obviously relevant (and almost certainly a more straightforward upgrade than in a complicated DAC topology). The ER is only one I'm aware of that readily accepts an external clock, which is a great idea. But if you're looking for high-accuracy reclocking in the Antipodes world, I'm assuming they're going to recommend an S20/K50. And if USB is your preferred output, you can always add a Phoenix Innuos (I can confirm a very reasonable improvement on my CX > ER > EX > P2) or full Mutec stack (which I haven't tried in my own system but was great elsewhere).
> 
> I generally leave it to manufacturers to decide the best way to optimize their designs, at least inside the box. But I'm not much of a tweaker.


Hi Frank,

Noted and thanks.

SOTM switch Dlink GS105 5v version have external clock input which in fact does not work without one.

Indeed I prefer usb output for the simple reason of dsd playback despite having the P2 that is used only as a footer ... P2 and also S20 with i2s can be used for my Denafrips T+ with i2s input but they are both femto clock based which I hope otherwise for the obvious improvement when I moved to ocxo clock with lower phase noise.

Indeed I too hope not to meddle with mods and hence was hoping Antipodes will take up seemingly more simple and perhaps cheaper oxco clock upgrade availability .. but it seems not to be 😒

Cheers.

Richard

PS: Not aware even K50 is on oxco clock on its mobo and even a femto one ... txco clock for a usb15k device  ?


----------



## kennyb123

richardloh said:


> Not aware even K50 is on oxco clock on its mobo and even a femto one ... txco clock for a usb15k device ?


Can you explain why this is an issue?  What are you expecting the clock on the K50 mobo to do?

The reclocker board most certainly has a femto clock as a clock signal needs to be added to support the synchronous interfaces.  USB need not have a clock as it’s asynchronous and thus depends on the receiver clock.  If the K50 aimed to reclock ethernet then a high quality clock would be needed, but Antipodes seems to think that’s unnecessary.  It would be fair to argue that they should be doing more to improve the incoming Ethernet signal but with so many boxes out there to so that, why not use one of them?  The K50 would probably cost $18K instead if it had an ethernet re-clocker as it would also need another power supply for it to be done right.  And looking at how little free space is available inside the K50, maybe we are talking $20K now as a larger chassis would be needed.


----------



## richardloh (Aug 21, 2021)

Hi


kennyb123 said:


> Can you explain why this is an issue?  What are you expecting the clock on the K50 mobo to do?
> 
> The reclocker board most certainly has a femto clock as a clock signal needs to be added to support the synchronous interfaces.  USB need not have a clock as it’s asynchronous and thus depends on the receiver clock.  If the K50 aimed to reclock ethernet then a high quality clock would be needed, but Antipodes seems to think that’s unnecessary.  It would be fair to argue that they should be doing more to improve the incoming Ethernet signal but with so many boxes out there to so that, why not use one of them?  The K50 would probably cost $18K instead if it had an ethernet re-clocker as it would also need another power supply for it to be done right.  And looking at how little free space is available inside the K50, maybe we are talking $20K now as a larger chassis would be needed.


Hi Kenny,

Beyond my depth of knowledge even to know how many clocks are with the mobo are needed or what is in cx, ex or K50 but all digital signals are clocked internally at some point regardless aes, spdif etc. or usb ... why not have them upgraded to oxco ones with lower aka more accurate phase noise for a usd15k k50 but I am more interested in what can be upgraded my cx and ex. Your mentioned usb being asynchronous for high end audio product and not affected refers to external interface .. and there are of course still many Antipodes users of aes, spdif etc.

Yes, I have the Uptone Etheregen with AfterDark double emperor crown oxco clock as these messy (and expensive) additional boxes planned between the cx and ex but still only to be reprocessed by the mobo of ex without oxco clock(s) ?

Indeed a bit more space required but all clocks will still need psu ... just have a look at standard Terminator's femto clock and Terminator Plus' oxco in same box size which is also an obvious improvement on SQ with perhaps help with other changes done by Denafrips.

Cheers.

Richard


----------



## richardloh (Aug 21, 2021)

Hi Kenny,

4 points connects the Antipodes dx mobo with stock connection cut and reclocked by oxco in separate pcba done by SOTM.

We had all seen and perhaps heard how uptone etherregen with femto clock upped SQ when connected to external oxco clock from Afterdark, mutec etc.

Btw, it was not for a song but usd2k+  .. my mistake 🙏

Cheers.

Richard


----------



## kennyb123

richardloh said:


> just have a look at standard Terminator's femto clock and Terminator Plus' oxco


Above I mentioned that “USB need not have a clock as it’s asynchronous and thus depends on the receiver clock.”. The Terminator is a DAC so it makes sense that it has a clock since it’s the receiver.  Denafrips uses several OCXO clocks to “eliminate the word-clock jitter from the sources”.  This is the right position in which to place these.  

A clock is essentially a timing reference.  I don’t think we can assess the quality of a server by whether it has a good clock.  It has to be judged by what the clock is aiming to do.  I really don‘t know enough about how computers work to say how many clocks a motherboard should have.  I do know that interfaces need a reference but sometimes that reference is downstream.


----------



## kennyb123

richardloh said:


> 4 points connects the Antipodes dx mobo with stock connection cut and reclocked by oxco in separate pcba done by SOTM.


Ah ok now I see what you are getting at.  It’s beyond my understanding to explain why Antipodes doesn’t do something similar.  This would be an interesting topic for a forum with people knowledgeable about building music servers. 

Those long wires are usually a no-no when it comes to clocking.  The clock should be placed as close as possible to the circuit as possible.


----------



## richardloh (Aug 21, 2021)

Hi Kenny,

Sorry but not sure what is your point here ... switches like etherRegen has a clock, mobo of server or player probably has several clocks, dac has a clock etc.

Just wish for my Antipodes to have the option of better clocks like etherRegen, Denafrips dac etc. which cannot be worse for SQ.

Cheers.

Richard


----------



## richardloh

https://www.pinkfaun.com/shop/bridge/44-usb-bridge.html


----------



## kennyb123

richardloh said:


> Just wish for my Antipodes to have the option of better clocks like etherRegen, Denafrips dac etc. which cannot be worse for SQ.


Yes I know we’re going in circles.  You keep bringing up devices that aren’t servers and I’ve been trying to explain that servers are different.  It’s not apples to apples.  

I’ll drop it.


----------



## kennyb123

richardloh said:


> https://www.pinkfaun.com/shop/bridge/44-usb-bridge.html



Again, not apples to apples.  That is a USB bridge. It is not a server.  

Ok now I will really drop it.


----------



## richardloh (Sep 25, 2021)

kennyb123 said:


> You keep bringing up devices that aren’t servers and I’ve been trying to explain that servers are different.


Hi Kenny,

All in digital domain and all have clocks 🙏

The pink faun's mini pcie extension card is to upgrade the computer's usb output that IS being used as a server and/or player ... Antipodes server/player is also a computer that also has mini pcie slot used for internal ssd ... and also usb output just like the pink faun's.

Cheers.

Richard


----------



## kennyb123

richardloh said:


> All in digital domain and all have clocks 🙏


And who is in the best position to decide if it’s worth the up-charge to their customers to use better clocks in their servers?  If you are going to trust other decisions that Antipodes makes why not trust that they made the right decisions with the clocks used in their servers?

Many manufacturers don’t disclose what clocks they use to avoid customers making purchasing decisions based on for buzzwords for buzzwords sake.  

By the way, I was only trying to help!  I have liked your posts a lot and have appreciated your contributions.  I didn’t mean to quarrel.


----------



## richardloh (Aug 22, 2021)

kennyb123 said:


> And who is in the best position to decide if it’s worth the up-charge to their customers to use better clocks in their servers?  If you are going to trust other decisions that Antipodes makes why not trust that they made the right decisions with the clocks used in their servers?


Hey Kenny,

Just a miscommunication and was hoping for info on anyone with such internal mods for consideration since Antipodes is not pursuing that direction which I believe will help in SQ ... you can measure phase noise from these clocks.

I had also wish for the same on your statement to avoid all these boxes, cabling, lps etc. and associated costs but I am sure stock ethernet input/processing of Antipodes lags behind specialised improvement made by Uptone EtherRegen at least in my system that I can vouch since I have them. And then there are others who are using usb regen solutions that I avoid ... no more space on my rack !

With apology if I sounded impatient but was just trying to share my wish/query, some experience, available fixes from SOTM/Pink Faun etc. and not on how it should not be done without more specific info.

Cheers.

Richard


----------



## Whazzzup

I think we may be clock happy , however adding more clocks seems that it might be the more the merrier, I’m not sure, but the last clock not overwritten may be the only one that matters…. I’m keep the chain as direct as possible, usb my choice as chord preffered  delivery is through usb and has its own clock, the DX preferred output is usb. Rob watts wasn’t thrilled by multiple clocks but this may be above my pay grade.


----------



## richardloh (Aug 22, 2021)

Whazzzup said:


> I think we may be clock happy , however adding more clocks seems that it might be the more the merrier, I’m not sure, but the last clock not overwritten may be the only one that matters…. I’m keep the chain as direct as possible, usb my choice as chord preffered  delivery is through usb and has its own clock, the DX preferred output is usb. Rob watts wasn’t thrilled by multiple clocks but this may be above my pay grade.


Hi Whazzup,

Believe throughout the digital chain matters and not only final one ...else I would not experience the improved SQ from use of uptone etherRegen and Afterdark's double emperor oxco clock.

Fortunate that we have dedicated products e.g. transport, dac, pre-amp, amp etc. to fine tune our system but it also introduce more issues in audio data transfer and clocking prevails in each transfer in digital domain imho.

I will look foolish to try to say further as I am not as learned as many there but I will probably pursue the same route as the DX ownership with the below at some later stage. It is now even more "affordable" with multiple outputs for perhaps cpu, i/o, usb etc. in this ultra version but with key concern on space in my ex even without the internal ssd of the cx that will also be too much $.

Read all done on quality of ethernet on switches, lps, cables etc. for the Antipodes but I would like to err on also the Antipodes itself ... like this Olandra upgrade.

Cheers.

PS: Not adding more clocks but replacement of existing ones

https://www.sotm-audio.com/sotmwp/english/press-release-sclk-ex/


----------



## kennyb123

richardloh said:


> With apology if I sounded impatient but was just trying to share my wish/query, some experience, available fixes from SOTM/Pink Faun etc. and not on how it should not be done without more specific info.


All good, my brother in audio.  No apology necessary.


----------



## Triode User

Antipodes have posted this update on their Support page. I thought it would be of interest and so have copied it in full. I wonder which third party app was causing problems.

Support Portal​Welcome to the Antipodes user support portal. Here, you can make contact with us via live chat, book a one on one appointment to get assistance on a purchase or with your setup, use the forums to chat with other members, and form groups with common interests.
Oladra Upgrades​– CX/EX Update​The CX and EX upgrade process hit a snag that has now been resolved. It emerged that one third-party app that many of our customers want to use, was not working reliably with the Operating System necessary to support the latest versions of other important third-party apps.

It took us a few weeks to make and test software changes that would work across all apps and across all models. This has delayed the completion of CX/EX upgrades, and the release date for remote updates of AMSv3.1 to other models.

The operating system and third-party apps are all working happily together now, we are installing AMSv3.1 software on the upgraded CX and EX, and we will soon begin to ship units back to our customers.

We are very grateful for your understanding and patience with us on this.
– DX3 Update​We have completed sufficient testing to be able to order materials for OLADRA upgrades for the DX3 and for earlier DX that were upgraded to DX3 level. These materials need to be manufactured before we can begin these upgrades. At this stage we expect to configure the factory to complete these upgrades around October/November 2021.
Covid-19 Update​Some of you will be aware that New Zealand has employed an ‘elimination’ strategy for COVID-19. Being an island nation, there are few entry points to our country and so we have successfully taken a hard border approach, coupled with heavy lockdown rules when any outbreak occurs.

We recently had our first real outbreak of the Delta variant and we are currently in the highest level of lockdown. This severely limits our ability to operate as we can only work from home, and cannot open the factory for normal operations. We cannot yet predict when the lockdown level will be eased.
Covid Impacts On The Line-Up​COVID, plus several other factors, have combined to create a shortage of several parts that are used in our current models. In some cases we were caught with just 3 months’ supply and lead times shooting out to 40+ weeks. In other cases the chipsets for boards were subject to immediate end-of-life notices from the manufacturers.
This problem began to emerge in late 2020, and continues. All models have been affected in some way, other than the K10 Ripper.

Without mitigation we would be out of stock of nearly all models by now. To mitigate the problem, we began a hunt for alternative parts, began the re-design of all models around the alternative parts, and purchased very large quantities of the alternative parts to guarantee that our business can continue through the worldwide chip shortage problems that are likely to last into 2023 at least. This has consumed a large chunk of our resources over the last 10 months.

In re-visiting each affected model, our primary goal was to ensure no reduction in sound quality. In a number of cases, one forced change would cause a small reduction in sound quality and so we changed the spec or design of another part of the design to compensate or more than compensate for this, to maintain or improve sound quality.
The most pervasive change is to the OLADRA power supply design. We have compensated for the unavailability of a preferred part by intensive work to push the envelope further to reap more of the rewards delivered by the original design of 15 months ago.

In some cases the changes to the models are minor, with the only impacts being an increase in the costs to Antipodes, and minor changes to the sound signature of the products.
In other cases, the changes are greater. The biggest change was to the K50, where three different chip sets became impossible to get in the quantities required to meet demand. Of the three main boards (server, player, re-clocker), two are completely new boards. As mentioned, the power supply design has also changed. These changes dictated a different internal layout, and this allowed us to add two additional digital outputs, S/PDIF on Toslink and I2S on RJ45, in response to requests from the market.
There are some changes to the sound signatures of the models, but sound quality is maintained and enhanced a little in most cases. As stated, throughout the revision of all models, the one key constraint we imposed was that sound quality could improve, but could not diminish.

The negative consequence is that Antipodes’ manufacturing costs have been driven up by nearly 15%. It is our policy to absorb cost increases for two years between price increases, but with the size of these cost increases, we cannot rule out bringing a price increase forward into 2021 as costs continue to rise.


----------



## richardloh (Aug 26, 2021)

_These changes dictated a different internal layout, and this allowed us to add two additional digital outputs, S/PDIF on Toslink and *I2S on RJ45*, in response to requests from the market_.

Would have been great if this option of my preferred direct i2s output to my Denafrip T+ with 3x i2s inputs was possible for my ex/cx being upgraded but check with Mark indicates that there is simply no space within the smaller chassis even if ex as player will not have its mini pcie with ssds 😔

Cheers.


----------



## frankensmurf

richardloh said:


> _These changes dictated a different internal layout, and this allowed us to add two additional digital outputs, S/PDIF on Toslink and *I2S on RJ45*, in response to requests from the market_.
> 
> Would have been great if this option of my preferred direct i2s output to my Denafrip T+ with 3x i2s inputs was possible for my ex/cx being upgraded but check with Mark indicates that there is simply no space within the smaller chassis even if ex as player will not have its mini pcie with ssds 😔
> 
> Cheers.


Let's ask if it can be retrofitted to the  S60.  My strategy I think is to keep CX/EX and swap p2 for s60.


----------



## richardloh (Aug 27, 2021)

frankensmurf said:


> Let's ask if it can be retrofitted to the  S60.  My strategy I think is to keep CX/EX and swap p2 for s60.


Hi Franken,

I will stay with usb to my Denafrips Terminator+ dac then since having it converted to i2s via another piece of equipment is not what I wish for but sure, having P2 or S60 serve the purpose of alternative output formats for some owners as designed though my P2 is used 100% as a footer and match for P1 😅

Cheers.

PS: I am using the Denafrip Hermes ddc synced to single high Q oxco in the Terminator+ for other sources via i2s to Terminator+ but prefers SQ from usb from the Antipodes. Use of this ddc and single synced clock with i2s input did however benefitted lower usb quality sources of Allo usb signature and Nuprime Omnia S1 players


----------



## richardloh

Hi,

Upgraded cx and ex just received .. had not listened and nothing to share of the olandra upgrade ... do not believe I can remember even how pre-upgraded sounded after about 5 weeks.

Nevertheless, the enclosed says it all for me having blue leds version.

Cheers.

Richard


----------



## td19

Looking good Richard ... all matching! You have some nice gear as well, especially the preamp.


----------



## richardloh (Sep 3, 2021)

td19 said:


> Looking good Richard ... all matching! You have some nice gear as well, especially the preamp.


Hi td19,

Thanks thanks ....

Had always wanted the almost dedicated preamp mfgr of Audible Ilusion 3B some 2 decades ago ... tube preamp and SS amp is what I prefer.

Getting to be 60 yrs old and had the L3A blackgate when released and swapped for the L3B last year just before retirement.

Did not get the 3B since I have the separate Aurorasound Vida lcr phono amp and 3B is without remote as well more unneeded phono circuitry, including burning 4 tubes instead of 2 for me.

Cheers.

Richard


----------



## richardloh (Sep 3, 2021)

Upgraded antipodes cx and ex is nice. Daytime listening in my open space living room is like quiet nitetime .. hearing more music will be my comment since lack of reviewer superlatives and ymmv as usual👍🥳

Many thanks Mark ! Especially on the blue leds 🥳🥳


----------



## richardloh

Hi Mark, a big thank you for a 2 yrs wish came truth and not forgetting supporting owners of previous statement Antipodes product with possible upgrades to the latest  !!

Cheers.

Richard


----------



## Triode User

richardloh said:


> Upgraded antipodes cx and ex is nice. Daytime listening in my open space living room is like quiet nitetime .. hearing more music will be my comment since lack of reviewer superlatives and ymmv as usual👍🥳
> 
> Many thanks Mark ! Especially on the blue leds 🥳🥳


Cool! I am very envious.

How are you finding the 3.1 software?


----------



## richardloh

Triode User said:


> Cool! I am very envious.
> 
> How are you finding the 3.1 software?


Hi Triode,

AMS 3.1 seems stable for the half day of usage and will report back if any amiss. 

Antipodes had nicely created the guides (in progress) at myantipode.com which helped the noob I am who had contacted Antipodes for possible online session this weekend to setup .. but no longer needed since all running fine. I had only gotten myself confused using both LMS and squeezer app as I did not rescan LMS of the 2x4TB ssd that I shipped with the units for upgrade .. all files were intact as there are the 1st gen ripped by P1 which I prefer to keep and not those backed up in my NAS.

The GUI is very intuitive with clearly labelled options for both server and player, softwares, outputs etc. etc. to be defined and had detected my Terminator plus with no trouble at all.

Cheers.

Richard

PS: will share some screenshots during tonite's planned audition when back home before I reconfig my etheregen and afterdark 10m clock between the cx and ex since I bought the 2nd etheregen from wireless mesh to cx.


----------



## richardloh (Sep 3, 2021)

Guides: antipodes.audio/portal/guides/


----------



## richardloh

AMS 3.1 Gui:


----------



## Progisus

richardloh said:


> AMS 3.1 Gui:


When you get a chance please let us know the ver of MPD, Hqplayer, Squeeze that AMS 3.1 allows.


----------



## richardloh

Progisus said:


> When you get a chance please let us know the ver of MPD, Hqplayer, Squeeze that AMS 3.1 allows.


Hi Progisus,

Hope the below helps albeit not knowing how to show Hqplayer's ... I only uses Squeeze with Squeezer app and a noob on this music server/player arena .. with apology.

Cheers.

Richard


----------



## Progisus

richardloh said:


> Hi Progisus,
> 
> Hope the below helps albeit not knowing how to show Hqplayer's ... I only uses Squeeze with Squeezer app and a noob on this music server/player arena .. with apology.
> 
> ...


Thanks Richard. That is the latest versions. Enjoy.


----------



## navr

I expected $2000 would bring the full size chassis instead of mini like on older models.


----------



## cczero17

navr said:


> I expected $2000 would bring the full size chassis instead of mini like on older models.


You thought the chassis would change on the upgrade?


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> That is the latest versions. Enjoy.


Yay!  Thanks guys.


----------



## Triode User

navr said:


> I expected $2000 would bring the full size chassis instead of mini like on older models.


That probably wouldn’t even buy the chassis with associated bits.


----------



## richardloh (Sep 4, 2021)

Hi,

For me ... usd2k for another 2 yrs warranty of a usd10k set up is worthwhile. 

Usd1k each for blue leds that I will not risk modification myself and whatever sound improvement to 80-90% of usd15k K50 which I wiĺl draw the line to spend on just 1 digital source.

There is the added bonus of not stuck with non-upgraded cx and ex and poor resale value when this upgrade is no longer available.

No brainer imho to upgrade but ymmv as usual.

Cheers.

PS: No larger chassis pls ! My P1 and P2 footers will not fit 🤣


----------



## navr

cczero17 said:


> You thought the chassis would change on the upgrade?


I thought SGM Extreme would make a mistake if they put their stuff inside a mini chassis. I thought that Antipodes, while cheaper than SGM Extreme, is still very expensive to side with Mac Mini size vs the size used by all other competitors in the game, some of which are slightly more expensive than this Antipodes. If the msrp is $6k and we add $2k for the upgrade, this comes to $8k for what looks like Mac Mini, a mini chassis. For $8k one can really buy something much, much better, even Aurender N20


----------



## worknprogress

@navr,

If you wanted a larger Antipodes chassis, you could have purchased new S or K series.   If you indeed have a CX and/or EX, you did not have to upgrade.   To the best of my knowledge, Antipodes did not make any commitment to a chassis change.  Per Antipodes website, "The all-inclusive cost is USD1950 per unit, and includes a new 2 year warranty. Each unit will have a new serial label affixed to evidence the upgrade has been completed by Antipodes Audio, and you will receive a certification document."  To me that reads that current chassis will have a new serial label affixed as evidence upgrade had been done by Antipodes.  

If you believe the Aurender N20 is "much, much better", why didn't you buy one?    I have not heard Aurender, but I have read positive owner experiences, but I do not believe there would be universal agreement among Antipodes and Aurender owners to your statement of N20 being "much, much better".  I do believe you can purchase a pre-owned N20 for $8,000, but Aurender warranty policy is non-transferrable.  Possibly you can find a new N20 for 1/3 off list, but suspect that would be difficult.

If there is something functionally amiss with upgrade, that is legitimate basis for concern, but, personally, I find the chassis size upgrade criticism to be specious.


----------



## kennyb123

navr said:


> I thought SGM Extreme would make a mistake if they put their stuff inside a mini chassis. I thought that Antipodes, while cheaper than SGM Extreme, is still very expensive to side with Mac Mini size vs the size used by all other competitors in the game, some of which are slightly more expensive than this Antipodes.



Antipodes favors a 2-tier architecture with a Server and a Player.  Their reasoning is explained on their website so I won’t repeat it here other than to say that it greatly contributes to the ability of their servers to be both very dynamic and low in noise.  Aurender offers a single tier based on use of a low power CPU.  That will give low noise but the server manufactures who use higher powered CPUs will tell you that low power CPUs rob the music of life.

Antipodes now supports a 2-tier architecture in two ways:  1) via two physically separate smaller boxes (S series) or 2) via single boxes that contain the equivalent of two separate boxes (K series) .  With the previous CX/EX series there was only the option to have two separate boxes.  This 2-tier architecture is a strength of the brand. 



navr said:


> If the msrp is $6k and we add $2k for the upgrade, this comes to $8k for what looks like Mac Mini, a mini chassis. For $8k one can really buy something much, much better, even Aurender N20



What Antipodes is doing is allowing the CX/EX to be brought up to a level that wasn’t possible 3 years ago.  Haven’t you heard that it’s wrong to judge a book by its cover?  What matters isn’t the size of the box but what‘s inside it.  The OLADRA power supply is pushing state of the art IMHO.  $2K for a power supply and CPU board upgrade is actually a sweet deal - particularly since it includes round trip shipping.


----------



## richardloh (Sep 4, 2021)

kennyb123 said:


> The OLADRA power supply is pushing state of the art IMHO.  $2K for a power supply and CPU board upgrade is actually a sweet deal - particularly since it includes round trip shipping.


Hi Kenny,

And an extended 2 years warranty typically up to 20-30% as in typical buying parallel imports without such warranty ... I factored about usd2k out of the usd4k spent on a usd10k cx+ex setup.

There is also implied further drop in value of non upgraded cx and ex when such upgrade is no longer available ... 80-90% of the latest statement usd15k K50 is alright for me since happily retired few months ago 🥲

And yes, shipping arrangement included in the usd4k to exclude gst upon return added nicely to a painless trip of my cx+ex to their motherland for some inherent TLC.

Cheers.

Richard


----------



## kennyb123

richardloh said:


> There is also implied further drop in value of non upgraded cx and ex when such upgrade is no longer available ... 80-90% of an usd15k K50 is alright for me since happily retired few months ago 🥲


Excellent points, Richard.  I would have jumped for the upgrade too.


----------



## cczero17

Wasn't expecting this but the CX/EX will be delivered today. 

I never set these up before as a dealer did this for me online. Is there a walkthrough on how to set both these up so I can get it done myself?


----------



## richardloh (Sep 6, 2021)

Was quite easy even for noob like me who did not proceeded with online support to be scheduled ... but I took my time to view nice guides provided.  Just click on top right corner "?" of below dashboard page  assuming you can already see that the units are online and click on configuration of the cx and ex.

From the dashboard of both cx and ex, you just select options as added and playback should be initiated but pls remember to connect and select usb on your dac.

Cheers.

Richard


----------



## navr

worknprogress said:


> @navr,
> 
> If you wanted a larger Antipodes chassis, you could have purchased new S or K series.   If you indeed have a CX and/or EX, you did not have to upgrade.   To the best of my knowledge, Antipodes did not make any commitment to a chassis change.  Per Antipodes website, "The all-inclusive cost is USD1950 per unit, and includes a new 2 year warranty. Each unit will have a new serial label affixed to evidence the upgrade has been completed by Antipodes Audio, and you will receive a certification document."  To me that reads that current chassis will have a new serial label affixed as evidence upgrade had been done by Antipodes.
> 
> ...


S30 is also a mini-chassis, a seller just confirmed. As far as I know, only Antipodes uses mini-chasis. Only with K line they attained Aurender, Inuos, Wolf, Taiko etc in size and quality


----------



## cczero17 (Sep 6, 2021)

Right people. The units are back and have followed the guide and am (sort of) up and running. I do have a few things im not too happy about but I will take these up with Antipodes. I do have set up issues Im hoping there will be some help here.

Before we go there, Roon was backed up before (im guessing to my SSD) before the units were sent off.

Libray - I have a lot of albums that now say "Unknown Album/Tracks" with no album art
Tags - All of my many tags are now missing and I really really need these.
Squeeze - Ive not used this before and have followed the instructions but roon cannot find A sqeezbox device. Whay am I doing wrong?
HqPlayer - I think I need to get licence key updated. Ive emailed Jussi.
Roon Backup - Not too sure where to look to see if I can find tag and playlist back ups. Whats the default folder for backups? Not sure why roon has removed all my tags and playlists but sure hell need them back
Playlist- These have also disappeared

HELP


----------



## richardloh

Sorry to hear that you are having these issues ... I am a noob and only using built-in squeeze and squeezer app without any knowledge of roon and cannot share.

Hope your issues will be resolved soon and cheers.


----------



## cczero17

Hey all,

I am of the assumption that I can't be the only one that has lost their room detail since the OLADRA upgrades to their CX/EX? 

All of my tags (on 69,000 tracks), playlists, changed cover art, name edits etc have disappeared. Yes I did back ups regularly but I didn't take any notice of the path. What was the default path/folder when you first started to back up room?

Any help here would be appreciated. I really don't want to re tag everything as it's a massive job


----------



## worknprogress

@cczero17,

Mark Cole provided me some remote assistance after I moved from Small Green Computer (SMG) to K50.   I now have a main folder visible in Finder for on my Mac for my K50 that is labeled Storage (my internal hard drives on K50).  Within that folder are folders labeled _l*ost*_*+found, music, movies, Roon Backups, pictures.  *With me for some reason there is another Roon Backups folder within the first Roon Backups folder.  The second Roon Backups folder contains a Unix Executable File and an alpha numeric named folder that is the pointed folder for backups.  

When I had the SMG, I obviously had configured backups to Roon incorrectly and could never get a proper backup to complete.  I appreciate how frustrating this can be.  If my info does not assist, suggest reaching out to Antipodes for assistance.

Best of luck.


----------



## Uncle Monty

cczero17 said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I am of the assumption that I can't be the only one that has lost their room detail since the OLADRA upgrades to their CX/EX?
> 
> ...


I've received my CX/EX back from NZ but haven't got round to connecting it all back up - however, this is just the sort of scenario I'm fearing...


----------



## Presence

Hi UM,
What was the round trip turn around for your upgrade? My CX/EX was received at the factory yesterday but I've been informed I'm on a waiting list from backlog.

Rich


----------



## richardloh

For comrades who had proceeded with the oladra upgrade for the cx and ex, do try out the ER with better oxco clock like Afterdark's  ... just might cover the 10-20% shy of K50 or even supercedes it from obvious improvement in SQ at least in my system.

Nice to have 2 box solutions afterall until Antipodes decides on such clock improvement. 🥳

Contrary to wishful thinking of some, ethernet inputs and outputs of Antipodes can be further improved without a doubt to me by specialist like John Swenson of Alex's Uptone EtherRegen ... I do not believe it is due to lack expertise of Mark's Antipodes but their different focus and making it more "affordable" e.g. not having oxco clocks upgrade.  This is clearly the case of Alex's Uptone with their femto clock in the EtherRegen and not oxco clock but great that he had external clock option 👍👏

Cheers.


----------



## Uncle Monty

Presence said:


> Hi UM,
> What was the round trip turn around for your upgrade? My CX/EX was received at the factory yesterday but I've been informed I'm on a waiting list from backlog.
> 
> Rich


A month exactly - there were a couple of small hold ups - NZ went into another lockdown which I think might have delayed items leaving NZ after repair and then DHL required evidence that items had been sent to NZ and weren't being imported for the first time - so keep waybill, shipment confirmation and commercial invoice.


----------



## Whazzzup

So how’s everyone’s data base on the ssd they sent in for upgrades. This is a big caveat for future upgrades.


----------



## Presence

Whazzzup said:


> So how’s everyone’s data base on the ssd they sent in for upgrades. This is a big caveat for future upgrades.


I emailed Mark to clarify what I should do with the SSD in terms of shipping it installed in the CX, ESD bagging it or not sending it at all and his response was to not return it to Antipodes with the HW.


----------



## Presence

Presence said:


> I emailed Mark to clarify what I should do with the SSD in terms of shipping it installed in the CX, ESD bagging it or not sending it at all and his response was to not return it to Antipodes with the HW.


From Uncle Monty's experience, it sounds like it might be another three weeks before I receive my units back before I'll know...


----------



## richardloh

Whazzzup said:


> So how’s everyone’s data base on the ssd they sent in for upgrades. This is a big caveat for future upgrades.


My 95% filled 2x4tb shipped with the cx came back intact but I am only on squeeze and squeezer android app. 

Just rescanned via squeezebox and probably tagged better than before but I would not know and no wish to know since a noob.

Cheers


----------



## richardloh (Sep 8, 2021)

Presence said:


> From Uncle Monty's experience, it sounds like it might be another three weeks before I receive my units back before I'll know...


I sent mine just after mid July and may had been the first few who did so ... I received it back on 4 Sep i.e. 6 week turnaround time probably cos waiting for others to start production but Mark did advised that blue led option of mine will be slightly delayed.

Your wait will be worthwhile ... cheers


----------



## cczero17

Uncle Monty said:


> I've received my CX/EX back from NZ but haven't got round to connecting it all back up - however, this is just the sort of scenario I'm fearing...


I'm fearing that I have lost tags to 69000 tracks bit I will get Mark to take s look. On a brighter note, just standard usb/roon ( not set up Hqplayer back up yet) these sound fantastic!!!!


----------



## Progisus

I wonder if there will be a sonic improvement with software upgrade only. Sonicorbiter to AMS 3.1. I also wonder if Sonicorbiter is still behind the new gui. A hqplayer config screen someone posted showed the name referring sonicorbiter.


----------



## Uncle Monty

Presence said:


> I emailed Mark to clarify what I should do with the SSD in terms of shipping it installed in the CX, ESD bagging it or not sending it at all and his response was to not return it to Antipodes with the HW.


You know, it never crossed my mind to remove the SSDs from my CX - I sort of forgot about them tbh - so they've gone to NZ and returned to UK. I've got a small technical hitch to work out (not CX/EX related) before I can fire them back up but I'll update on my situation re ROON when I can...


----------



## Whazzzup

Note to self take ssd out


----------



## andrewd01

cczero17 said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I am of the assumption that I can't be the only one that has lost their room detail since the OLADRA upgrades to their CX/EX?
> 
> ...


Yikes! Tagging 69000 tracks again doesn’t sound like fun.  Avoiding faffing around with meta data is one of the main reasons I use Tidal exclusively now.  My library is only150Gb and its a major PITA any time I have had to manage it on the various servers I have had.


----------



## Triode User

Just to update on the 3.1 roll out, Mark at Antipodes responded to my Chat Room question to him yesterday saying, “Hi there Nick, parts of NZ are still in lockdown, we are out and back at work, we are finalising this upgrade process for over the air, and are not far off, am hesitant to gice a timeframe, but the end is near”.


----------



## barbz127

Could anyone share any comments on using the s40 as a roon core and endpoint?

Also if anyone can comment on the house sound of the antipodes and how that would compare to the innous range.

I'm looking for something that doesn't push forward or bright.

Thankyou


----------



## kennyb123 (Sep 11, 2021)

barbz127 said:


> Could anyone share any comments on using the s40 as a roon core and endpoint?
> 
> Also if anyone can comment on the house sound of the antipodes and how that would compare to the innous range.
> 
> ...


I think the S40 would be awesome at that.  Forward and bright is not something I would expect from any Antipodes server.  Same for Innuos. 

I can only comment on Zenith Mk3 vs K30.  While many thousands separate the two, while I had the Zenith I only used it with a Chord M-Scaler.  So when you add in all the costs for cables and everything, price was about the same of these two front ends.  K30 was better then Zenith Mk3 plus M-Scaler in every way.  Music is more dynamic with greater density.  Transient speed can be jaw-dropping.  The Innuos sound is excellent for sure.  I could have remained pleased with it, but I’m glad I made the move to Antipodes for a lot of reasons.  That greater density along with faster transients really brings the music to life.

What I like about the S40 is that it will allow you to incrementally get to the equivalent of a K30, by just adding the S30 and S60.


----------



## barbz127

kennyb123 said:


> I think the S40 would be awesome at that.  Forward and bright is not something I would expect from any Antipodes server.  Same for Innuos.
> 
> I can only comment on Zenith Mk3 vs K30.  While many thousands separate the two, but while I had the Zenith I only used it with a Chord M-Scaler.  So when you add in all the costs for cables and everything else, price was about the same.  K30 is better then Zenith Mk3 plus M-Scaler in every way.  Music is more dynamic with greater density.  Transient speed can be jaw-dropping.  The Innuos sound is excellent for sure.  I could have remained pleased with it, but I’m glad I made the move to Antipodes for a lot of reasons.  That greater density along with faster transients really brings the music to life.
> 
> What I like about the S40 is that it will allow you to incrementally get to the equivalent of a K30, by just adding the S30 and S60.


Thankyou 

S40/s60 is the starting combo I'm looking and figured I could dabble with a s30 for the endpoint down the track if I felt the need.

One of the other benefits for me (on paper anyway at this stage) is been able to supply my own SSD for the antipodes for local storage.


----------



## kennyb123

barbz127 said:


> One of the other benefits for me (on paper anyway at this stage) is been able to supply my own SSD for the antipodes for local storage.


Absolutely a benefit.

I summarized my server selection criteria in the following post.  Antipodes checked all those boxes.  

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/...io-mu1-server/?do=findComment&comment=1154384


----------



## cczero17 (Sep 12, 2021)

andrewd01 said:


> Yikes! Tagging 69000 tracks again doesn’t sound like fun.  Avoiding faffing around with meta data is one of the main reasons I use Tidal exclusively now.  My library is only150Gb and its a major PITA any time I have had to manage it on the various servers I have had.


I also tag my Qobuz and Tidal tracks/albums I save. The ones they have are too high level. I normally add a few tags of my own to each album to keep tabs on labels/genre etc. So for example Oscar Mulero...I would add PoleGroup and Techno tag. That way I can pull up all the albums under that label. Yes it was time consuming to start off with but it's pretty easy now that I only need to do it every time I add a new album......I don't want to go back and start again 🥺


----------



## kennyb123

barbz127 said:


> S40/s60 is the starting combo I'm looking and figured I could dabble with a s30 for the endpoint down the track if I felt the need.



I think it’s a great move to start with the S60.  That will give you the qualities I mentioned/

I think if you elect to stick with Roon, adding an S30 will help to reduce some of the harm Roon does.


----------



## barbz127

kennyb123 said:


> I think it’s a great move to start with the S60.  That will give you the qualities I mentioned/
> 
> I think if you elect to stick with Roon, adding an S30 will help to reduce some of the harm Roon does.


Are there better options on antipodes for local music playback?


----------



## kennyb123

cczero17 said:


> That way I can pull up all the albums under that label. Yes it was time consuming to start off with but it's pretty easy now that I only need to do it every time I add a new album......I don't want to go back and start again 🥺



Roon can fail to restore a backup if your music has moved.  It seems to look for the exact path to the file in one’s library.  So try to see how your folders might have changed in terms of where your music is stored.  If you can restore the previous locations and then rerun restore, you might find your library in better shape.


----------



## kennyb123

barbz127 said:


> Are there better options on antipodes for local music playback?


Yes!  I use either MPD or HQPlayer.  Both sound better than Roon.  I still use Roon for music discovery, but I have Roon configured to use HQPlayer integration.  It sounds better than Roon/RAAT.


----------



## naynay

kennyb123 said:


> What Antipodes is doing is allowing the CX/EX to be brought up to a level that wasn’t possible 3 years ago.  Haven’t you heard that it’s wrong to judge a book by its cover?  What matters isn’t the size of the box but what‘s inside it.  The OLADRA power supply is pushing state of the art IMHO.  $2K for a power supply and CPU board upgrade is actually a sweet deal - particularly since it includes round trip shipping.


Crazy when you say $2k upgrade is a sweet deal when you have just paid the best part of $11,000 for CX-EX and that's at discount price.


----------



## kennyb123

naynay said:


> Crazy when you say $2k upgrade is a sweet deal when you have just paid the best part of $11,000 for CX-EX and that's at discount price.


And yet the upgraded combo is said to get one to 90% of the sound quality of the K50, which retails for $15,000.

Like I said, sweet deal.

The first rule of holes is good advice.  When you are in a hole you should stop digging.  Your rebuttals keep making my arguments stronger.


----------



## naynay

kennyb123 said:


> And yet the upgraded combo is said to get one to 90% of the sound quality of the K50, which retails for $15,000.


😂😂😂😂easily fooled!


----------



## kennyb123

naynay said:


> 😂😂😂😂easily fooled!


The more one digs, the smaller they become.


----------



## cczero17

kennyb123 said:


> Yes!  I use either MPD or HQPlayer.  Both sound better than Roon.  I still use Roon for music discovery, but I have Roon configured to use HQPlayer integration.  It sounds better than Roon/RAAT.


Since the the units have had the OLADRA upgrades, I've found bog standard roon sound very very good. It's much better sounding than pre OLADRA using Hqplayer.

I was messing about last night and (for me anyway) took quite a while to find a Hqplayer set up that bettered roon only. Even then there's not much in it at all.

I managed to try squeeze within roon and couldn't tell the difference at all. Sounded the same. Not sure most here say it sounds way better 

As an FYI, I use USB to an Aqua La Scala Optologic MkII DAC (r2r)


----------



## FlikFlac

barbz127 said:


> Could anyone share any comments on using the s40 as a roon core and endpoint?
> 
> Also if anyone can comment on the house sound of the antipodes and how that would compare to the innous range.
> 
> I'm looking for something that doesn't push forward or bright


Hi
I’m using the S40 standalone as a Roon core and endpoint and from a sound perspective I doubt it will disappoint. I took a pretty big upgrade from a Project Stream Ultra so it’s not surprising there is an improvement but most noticeable is the overall way it presents music  with balance and dynamism that eluded the Project. Not being bright is an interesting point though; on my Hi-Fi journey I have often felt it is two steps forward and one back and this has been most noticeable in the treble range. As I have made each improvement, all the good things we talk about occur, more transparency, better timbre, more detail, imaging etc., but, with that usually comes the uncovering of noise that was previously not impacting my listening and manifest itself as music being too bright or harsh or the presence of digital hash. Realising this I know that each step up will then require me to locate the noise source and treat accordingly, once that is done, then the upgrade is complete and ready for the next one.

I mention this because there is a good ‘bright’ and so long as the noise is reduced below the level of what the current set up can reveal, it will sound wonderfully realistic and exciting without ever fatiguing.

And this is where the S40 (and most other high end kit) sits, you’ll be lucky, and I‘ll be envious, if you can introduce the S40 into your system and enjoy all the goodness it brings without having to also upgrade or tweak accessories to reach the same standard. It’s a fun journey and for me S60 is next.


----------



## magnuska

FlikFlac said:


> Hi
> I’m using the S40 standalone as a Roon core and endpoint and from a sound perspective I doubt it will disappoint. I took a pretty big upgrade from a Project Stream Ultra so it’s not surprising there is an improvement but most noticeable is the overall way it presents music  with balance and dynamism that eluded the Project. Not being bright is an interesting point though; on my Hi-Fi journey I have often felt it is two steps forward and one back and this has been most noticeable in the treble range. As I have made each improvement, all the good things we talk about occur, more transparency, better timbre, more detail, imaging etc., but, with that usually comes the uncovering of noise that was previously not impacting my listening and manifest itself as music being too bright or harsh or the presence of digital hash. Realising this I know that each step up will then require me to locate the noise source and treat accordingly, once that is done, then the upgrade is complete and ready for the next one.
> 
> I mention this because there is a good ‘bright’ and so long as the noise is reduced below the level of what the current set up can reveal, it will sound wonderfully realistic and exciting without ever fatiguing.
> ...


Nice write up. A year ago I swapped my Aqua Linq streamer for the Antipodes S40. I used it as roonserver and player for many month. It really is no fundamental need to add better powersupplies or whatever tweaks.  Later on I could not help myself and still added some tweaks  but the S40 on its own with inbuilt SSD sounds very good.


----------



## Progisus

On the Chord Dave thread there is a bit of back and forth on Roon sound quality. As it pertains to Antipodes owners I have a couple of observations I have seen in my system.

1) Up to ver 1.8 there was definitely a difference in sound between roon ready and squeeze with squeeze being slightly more detailed. In 1.8 Danny posted that mods were made to the sound path. I had noticed that I was preferring roon to squeeze prior to this post. At present I find squeeze more fatiguing than roon and rarely use it.

2) The best sound I have gotten from roon on my EX/TT2 is by using the embedded hqplayer and then direct usb to the TT2. To my ears this is better than mscaler. I sold my mscaler.

3) The BEST sound I have gotten from my EX is using MPD but you need ver 2.8 or ams 3.1 to get the proper MPD and then it needs be direct played (ssd direct to usb) by an mpd controller not a upnp app.

4) Contrary to roon the best sound is obtained by having roon server on the EX and also using it as the player. I have had my core on different Mac , Windows, NUC, Roon Rock servers and always prefer the server on the EX. I don’t have a CX or K etc so that may be better.

5) Roon‘s gui, library curation, Tidal/Qobuz integration is light years ahead of lms, audirvana, jriver and I have them all.

6) All this can be made even better by PGGB’ing your local files.

7) When using roon on the EX I used soundiiz to transfer my local files to Tidal and Qobuz giving me a streaming library. I then moved them off the EX. This made more room on my ssd to store the pggb files.

8) Shutting down the EX and turning off the power supply occasionally seems to clear the sound. Don’t be afraid to do this. The Antipodes are computers and changing programs, adding deleting makes changes to the various stacks and a reboot resets this. Also powering down will reset and clear the ethernet as well resulting in quicker roon connections.

Hope this may give some ideas to roon/antipodes users. Especially those with small board, single box servers.


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> 2) The best sound I have gotten from roon on my EX/TT2 is by using the embedded hqplayer and then direct usb to the TT2. To my ears this is better than mscaler. I sold my mscaler.


+1 on selling m-scaler.  



Progisus said:


> 6) All this can be made even better by PGGB’ing your local files.


Yes, but it’s highly dependent on the DAC




Progisus said:


> Shutting down the EX and turning off the power supply occasionally seems to clear the sound. Don’t be afraid to do this. The Antipodes are computers and changing programs, adding deleting makes changes to the various stacks and a reboot resets this. Also powering down will reset and clear the ethernet as well resulting in quicker roon connections.



I actually did this for the first time a few days back.  I am not sure it helped sound quality only because I didn’t pause to reflect on it.  How often do you do this?


----------



## Triode User (Sep 12, 2021)

Progisus said:


> On the Chord Dave thread there is a bit of back and forth on Roon sound quality. As it pertains to Antipodes owners I have a couple of observations I have seen in my system.
> 
> 1) Up to ver 1.8 there was definitely a difference in sound between roon ready and squeeze with squeeze being slightly more detailed. In 1.8 Danny posted that mods were made to the sound path. I had noticed that I was preferring roon to squeeze prior to this post. At present I find squeeze more fatiguing than roon and rarely use it.
> 
> ...


I will have to wait until the 3.1 roll out to do a full comparison with what you say (at the moment with 3.0 there is very little overlap with what I am hearing and what you are posting - specifically your point 1)! Hopefully the 3.1 roll out will before the end of september.

Until then on my K50 I have deleted Roon.

PS. I still use my Mscaler for about 3/4 of my listening and only 1/4 with PGGB. I admit that sometimes I use neither and just play redbook files as they are.


----------



## cczero17

kennyb123 said:


> +1 on selling m-scaler.
> 
> 
> Yes, but it’s highly dependent on the DAC
> ...


I s this not a common thing then? I power off the CX/EX every night. No reason to keep it on I feel


----------



## Triode User

cczero17 said:


> I s this not a common thing then? I power off the CX/EX every night. No reason to keep it on I feel


The only things I power off, or at least put into standby, are my pass labs power amps. Everything else, DACs, their power supplies, streamers, PhoenixUSB, PhoenixNET  etc stay on 24/7


----------



## Progisus

cczero17 said:


> I s this not a common thing then? I power off the CX/EX every night. No reason to keep it on I feel


I read that Antipodes says the power supply can take quite awhile to stabilize so I do not do it every day. I do it when I get the fell there is some life missing in the music. Probably every couple weeks. Not scientific at all but a cure (placebo?).


----------



## kennyb123

cczero17 said:


> I s this not a common thing then? I power off the CX/EX every night. No reason to keep it on I feel


Digital gear should be left powered on so thermal stabilization can be achieved.  If you have shut down every night, you may have not yet heard full potential from your digital gear.  DACs can be particularly sensitive to this but it really varies.

Antipodes recommends leaving their servers powered on as they will send updates during the night.


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> I read that Antipodes says the power supply can take quite awhile to stabilize so I do not do it every day. I do it when I get the fell there is some life missing in the music. Probably every couple weeks. Not scientific at all but a cure (placebo?).



Do you just cycle the power (essentially reboot) or leave things shut down for a bit?  In the former case everything stays thermally stabilized.


----------



## cczero17 (Sep 14, 2021)

kennyb123 said:


> Digital gear should be left powered on so thermal stabilization can be achieved.  If you have shut down every night, you may have not yet heard full potential from your digital gear.  DACs can be particularly sensitive to this but it really varies.
> 
> Antipodes recommends leaving their servers powered on as they will send updates during the night.


On or in Standby? ...and what happens if you don't leave it on and miss an update? I don't really want to keep my DAC on 24/7. My Aqua has tubes in it


----------



## Progisus

kennyb123 said:


> Do you just cycle the power (essentially reboot) or leave things shut down for a bit?  In the former case everything stays thermally stabilized.


I first do a shutdown. Once the front light goes amber I turn off the power switch on the back. I leave off for about 30 sec and then turn back on the switch. I then boot with the front button and WAIT as I mount a usb drive and that seems to take forever.


----------



## richardloh (Sep 14, 2021)

Triode User said:


> The only things I power off, or at least put into standby, are my pass labs power amps. Everything else, DACs, their power supplies, streamers, PhoenixUSB, PhoenixNET  etc stay on 24/7


For my case due to tubed AI L3B preamp, it is put to standby mode occasionally that trickles IV to reduce the warm up time.

My Sanders Magtech amp is nice cos AB topology but with unique biasing circuitry that allows or in fact recommended never to be switched off for it to sound its best while staying despite 500/900/1600w at 8/4/2 ohm to drive my Revel Salon 2 Ultima... my system is primarily 24/7 powered.

Dun think it is difficult to discern in my experience that ALL .. both digital, including the Antipodes, and analog .. devices sound their best if kept powered.

Cheers.


----------



## dgcurtis36

cczero17 said:


> Since the the units have had the OLADRA upgrades, I've found bog standard roon sound very very good. It's much better sounding than pre OLADRA using Hqplayer.
> 
> I was messing about last night and (for me anyway) took quite a while to find a Hqplayer set up that bettered roon only. Even then there's not much in it at all.
> 
> ...


As long as I’ve had my K50 I have used Squeeze as my player, whether using Squeeze server or Roon server. I had it set up that way from the beginning due to everything I had read, along with it being recommended by my dealer. After reading the above comments last night I decided to try out Roon Ready as my player and was very surprised to find it sounded at least as good or better. Having read so many negative reports about Roon’s poor SQ I am not sure whether to trust my ears haha or all the bad press. My system consists of the K50, Vinnie Rossi L2iSE, Lampizator Atlantic DAC, Raven Audio Corvus Towers and Swisscables.


----------



## Clive101

Wait to you try MinimServer....
And I found out this morning the new software has an option to upgrade from the standard version


----------



## Triode User

Clive101 said:


> Wait to you try MinimServer....
> And I found out this morning the new software has an option to upgrade from the standard version


Clive, I am trying to be patient!! Stop ramping up my excitement levels!! 🤣


----------



## kennyb123

Triode User said:


> Clive, I am trying to be patient!! Stop ramping up my excitement levels!! 🤣


That was my reaction too.  Not fair!   🤣

Just kidding.  It’s nice to hear about what we will hopefully soon get ourselves.


----------



## Clive101 (Sep 14, 2021)

I must admit when tried MinimServer with the CX EX combo and then went the K50 with Roon Squeezelite it was in the same ball park.
BUT ..... not an A - B comparision.
With the K50 I cannot wait to see if I get the same uplift.

PS Mark said not much longer to wait...


----------



## cczero17

I really need to read up on minimserver and what its all about


----------



## barbz127

Does anyone know how to blow away roon and start from scratch? Ive purchased a second hand s40; installed a new music drive (and added it) but when I start setting up roon some of the settings from the previous owner are listed.

Looking in the server config for roon its showing me the database size is 31gb.

I cant see an option to blow it away... maybe uninstall and reinstall?


----------



## td19

Uninstall/reboot/reinstall should remove all traces of the previous user.


----------



## atya35mm

Clive101 said:


> I must admit when tried MinimServer with the CX EX combo and then went the K50 with Roon Squeezelite it was in the same ball park.
> BUT ..... not an A - B comparision.
> With the K50 I cannot wait to see if I get the same uplift.
> 
> PS Mark said not much longer to wait...


Loving the hype on this MinimServer. I have been using MPD for the last few weeks, where previously tried Roon and LMS. I always thought LMS / Squeeze combo is too bright for my system, and since adding the Innuos PhoenixNet and some Shunyata cables, I thought I go back and revisit Roon and LMS again. But no luck alas. 

I definitely still prefer the MPD being the one that brings the most detail in a nuance way. There might be more detail with the LMS / Squeeze combo but it’s too bright for my taste and possibly fatiguing after longer listen. I haven’t tried longer listening session as I kept on going back to MPD. 

Only downside with MPD, which I use mConnectHD is the interface which to put it nicely, it’s very basic and it lags…. Definitely not enjoyable experience dealing with this interface. 

One question I have hoping someone here more knowledgeable then me can assist, when using MPD and mConnectHD, is the mConnectHD app in my ipad acting as the server therefore bypassing the server in the antipodes k30?


----------



## Triode User

atya35mm said:


> One question I have hoping someone here more knowledgeable then me can assist, when using MPD and mConnectHD, is the mConnectHD app in my ipad acting as the server therefore bypassing the server in the antipodes k30?


MPD is installed on your player in the K30 and pulls the music from your server in the K30. Have you selected miniDLNA in your server apps to allow this to happen?


----------



## atya35mm

Triode User said:


> MPD is installed on your player in the K30 and pulls the music from your server in the K30. Have you selected miniDLNA in your server apps to allow this to happen?



Good question. I think I should be doing option 3 as mConnectHD is a UPnP/DLNA/OpenHome remote control app. As opposed to MPD-compliant remote control app. 

Hopefully this is right. I did click "setup" button and "scan" button in the miniDLNA server page.


----------



## atya35mm

So yes, thanks @Triode User. Makes sense now K30 server still doing work, it’s just the player pulling music out of the K30, and the mConnect is just a remote app. Got it.


----------



## td19

It's not necessary to use a DLNA server with MPD, although it is certainly a useful facilty. MPD has access to the /storage folder on the Antipodes. For example, the iOS Glider and Android M.A.L.P apps allow the user to connect to setup a connection to port 6600 on the Antipodes. However MConnect does not seem to allow the user to define a direct server connection in this way.


----------



## Triode User (Sep 17, 2021)

atya35mm said:


> So yes, thanks @Triode User. Makes sense now K30 server still doing work, it’s just the player pulling music out of the K30, and the mConnect is just a remote app. Got it.


Yes, with the K30 (and other twin processor ones) it is Option 3 that you are implementing.



td19 said:


> It's not necessary to use a DLNA server with MPD, although it is certainly a useful facilty. MPD has access to the /storage folder on the Antipodes. For example, the iOS Glider and Android M.A.L.P apps allow the user to connect to setup a connection to port 6600 on the Antipodes. However MConnect does not seem to allow the user to define a direct server connection in this way.



Is iOS Glider a better interface compared to the mconnectHD app?

Also, which of the Server apps do you select from below if you do not use miniDLNA on the server?


----------



## Progisus

atya35mm said:


> So yes, thanks @Triode User. Makes sense now K30 server still doing work, it’s just the player pulling music out of the K30, and the mConnect is just a remote app. Got it.


I think example 2 will provide the best sound as it allows you to use an mpd controller rather than a upnp controller. The mpd controller provides for a direct stream from the file source to the player. A upnp controller (mconnect) feeds the signal from the source through the controller on to the player. I use a controller called Rigelian which has an ios version. This does not require a server to be installed as well. I am using this as example 1 with my EX (ver 2.8). This would require ams 3.1 on your K30.


----------



## Progisus (Sep 17, 2021)

Triode User said:


> Yes, with the K30 (and other twin processor ones) it is Option 3 that you are implementing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think ams 3.1 is required or the mpd version is too low to provide for direct connect. No server is needed. Glider is a dead app while Rigelian is updated frequently. I like the feature that picks you a 100 tracks or an album from your library.


----------



## Triode User

Progisus said:


> I think ams 3.1 is required or the mpd version is too low to provide for direct connect. No server is needed. Glider is a dead app while Rigelian is updated frequently. I like the feature that picks you a 100 tracks or an album from your library.


I am failing to follow you, sorry. The K50 and K30 are dual computer server/players. Can you help me to understand please?

When you say 'no server is needed' do you mean that the later MPD only works on a single combined server/player and therefore if used on the K50 or K30 then either one of the server or player is redundant an will not be used?

Or do you mean that a separate server is not needed but the later MPD will work on a player connected to a separate server such as on the K30 or K50?

Sorry, it is just me being thick.


----------



## atya35mm

I noticed @Progisus uses EX, therefore EX as player and option 2 is probably the way to go I would guess. Having either K30 or K50, ideally would like to make use of both server / player function being option 3.


----------



## dgcurtis36

Triode User said:


> I am failing to follow you, sorry. The K50 and K30 are dual computer server/players. Can you help me to understand please?
> 
> When you say 'no server is needed' do you mean that the later MPD only works on a single combined server/player and therefore if used on the K50 or K30 then either one of the server or player is redundant an will not be used?
> 
> ...


----------



## Triode User

atya35mm said:


> I noticed @Progisus uses EX, therefore EX as player and option 2 is probably the way to go I would guess. Having either K30 or K50, ideally would like to make use of both server / player function being option 3.



Ah, yes a good point.


----------



## dgcurtis36

It is my understanding that “a single Antipodes Music Server” means just what it says, in my case ”Single Music Server” being a K50, not server in the sense of a server app, nor single as in single processor. I don’t use MPD very often, being enslaved to Roon haha, but did set it up with MConnect. In My Antipodes I set up the MPD player and selected it as my player. Then I went into MConnect, found my K50, and I was off and running. MConnect also shows my Sonos Play 3 and iPad as players. I may be missing something here, because I truly am a little thick when it comes to understanding all these different players, servers, streamers, software etc, (not much of a geek) but what I have described works for me.


----------



## Whazzzup

dgcurtis36 said:


> It is my understanding that “a single Antipodes Music Server” means just what it says, in my case ”Single Music Server” being a K50, not server in the sense of a server app, nor single as in single processor. I don’t use MPD very often, being enslaved to Roon haha, but did set it up with MConnect. In My Antipodes I set up the MPD player and selected it as my player. Then I went into MConnect, found my K50, and I was off and running. MConnect also shows my Sonos Play 3 and iPad as players. I may be missing something here, because I truly am a little thick when it comes to understanding all these different players, servers, streamers, software etc, (not much of a geek) but what I have described works for me.


So am I, I’m old school one box dx3 roon core, I don’t get any of this….. I’m a dumb plug n play guy


----------



## Triode User

dgcurtis36 said:


> It is my understanding that “a single Antipodes Music Server” means just what it says, in my case ”Single Music Server” being a K50, not server in the sense of a server app, nor single as in single processor. I don’t use MPD very often, being enslaved to Roon haha, but did set it up with MConnect. In My Antipodes I set up the MPD player and selected it as my player. Then I went into MConnect, found my K50, and I was off and running. MConnect also shows my Sonos Play 3 and iPad as players. I may be missing something here, because I truly am a little thick when it comes to understanding all these different players, servers, streamers, software etc, (not much of a geek) but what I have described works for me.


Well you have certainly confused me there. A K50 is a single box but it has a separate server in it and a separate player. In other words rather like having both a CX and an EX in the same box.

What I don‘y understand is this in your description of using MPD on the K50. Did you select MPD in the K50 Player apps? If so how and what did you select in the K50 Server apps?

For the moment I admit this is all a bit hypothetical until we can get the new 3.1 software and see what server and player apps we can then get access to use. Today I am back using Squeeze on the K50 server and Squeezelite on the K50 player. This was partly because I wanted to load the BBNC Sounds Plugin and get access to the recent Proms performances but also I wanted to remind myself how Squeeze/Squeezelite sounds. The answer is it sounds very fine (I am using the Mscaler connected to the K50). I am hoping the 3.1 software will give me access to the latest version of Squeeze which is meant to play 705 and 768 PGGB files.

By the way, Mark at Antipodes emailed me today and said that indeed they are getting very close to the release of 3.1.


----------



## dgcurtis36

Triode User said:


> Well you have certainly confused me there. A K50 is a single box but it has a separate server in it and a separate player. In other words rather like having both a CX and an EX in the same box.
> 
> What I don‘y understand is this in your description of using MPD on the K50. Did you select MPD in the K50 Player apps? If so how and what did you select in the K50 Server apps?
> 
> ...


----------



## dgcurtis36

The answer is yes on the player app. I didn’t do anything with the server apps. I got back into it this morning and noticed that you connect to the K50server library on mconnect. The K50 library is also available to use with the iPad and Sonos. I am attaching a screen shot but am not sure the whole pic will show up. First attempt at this.


----------



## Progisus (Sep 17, 2021)

Triode User said:


> I am failing to follow you, sorry. The K50 and K30 are dual computer server/players. Can you help me to understand please?
> 
> When you say 'no server is needed' do you mean that the later MPD only works on a single combined server/player and therefore if used on the K50 or K30 then either one of the server or player is redundant an will not be used?
> 
> ...


When an ssd is added to the Antipodes a specific path is made for the library and is referenced by all player apps. A server is only needed if you want access to these files by players not in your Antipodes such as a dap.  If your music is stored in this path it is automatically available to mpd. Mconnnect requires a server to be installed as the file is served to mconnect and mconnect sends to the player. The beauty of mpd is the elimination of the server. An Antipodes with both player and server computers is that a path is added to the default library path for the server ssd and mpd sees that as local to the player so no server is required. A true mpd controller is required as stated before.True  MPD expects the player and files are on the same computer. Antipodes on server and player systems makes it look like they are all on the same system. Using an mpd controller will provide a sound upgrade.

See option 2 I think for path explanation for 2 computer explanation. Hope this helps.


----------



## dgcurtis36 (Sep 17, 2021)

Doesn’t look like the whole screen showed up. Players on the left. K50server = music library on the left. 
Not sure what to say Progisus. Option 1 is pretty clear to me. As far as how it all works that is above my level of expertise. What I do know is am using the MPD player app and it shows up on mConnect and mConnect shows various music sources, like Qobuz, Tidal and K50server. I don’t recall doing anything (eg the Scan) with the DLNA/UpNp server apps on the K50, though who knows, it’s been awhile.  The only server app selected right now is Roon Server. As I said before, I’m Thick As A Brick when things get beyond a certain level.  Which BTW makes me think of the Jethro Tull concert in Spokane, WA way back when they were first performing THAB


----------



## dgcurtis36

A little better pic. I’m sure there’s a better way to do this but hopefully it is legible. It is mConnect HD on my iPad. Shows the K50player as one of the players on the left, and the K50server was the music source on the right.


----------



## dgcurtis36

Triode User said:


> Well you have certainly confused me there. A K50 is a single box but it has a separate server in it and a separate player. In other words rather like having both a CX and an EX in the same box.
> 
> What I don‘y understand is this in your description of using MPD on the K50. Did you select MPD in the K50 Player apps? If so how and what did you select in the K50 Server apps?
> 
> ...


Just to clarify my original post and hopefully clear up some of Triode’s confusion.. When I said Option 1, I was referring to the options that show up when you select MPD from the list of server apps. There is a pic of that screen in an earlier post on this thread. When I first read that I wondered if it was referring to a separate box like a DX, or any box, including my K50, or what? I concluded they must be talking about any box, including those with separate processor like the K50, so I continued on with that assumption and it worked. I apologize for any confusion I created.


----------



## Clive101

Well Just tried MPD with no server running on the K50.
The Player was selected and the correct output for the MPD player on the 50.
My App was M.A.L.P (Android version) which was able to find the music files and played the file but there was no sound, the app showed a player volume error.

Tried everything.     
Gave up
Now waiting for the 3.1 update with MinimServer


----------



## dgcurtis36

Clive101 said:


> Well Just tried MPD with no server running on the K50.
> The Player was selected and the correct output for the MPD player on the 50.
> My App was M.A.L.P (Android version) which was able to find the music files and played the file but there was no sound, the app showed a player volume error.
> 
> ...


Well that’s a bummer, I am curious about MinimServer. Looking forward to 3.1 as well, though am not sure what if any difference it will make on my system other than having access to MinimServer if I decide to give it a go.


----------



## Triode User

Clive101 said:


> Well Just tried MPD with no server running on the K50.
> The Player was selected and the correct output for the MPD player on the 50.
> My App was M.A.L.P (Android version) which was able to find the music files and played the file but there was no sound, the app showed a player volume error.
> 
> ...



Clive, I was also interested so I uninstalled all the Server Apps on my K50. I then selected MPD Player app. With MConnectHD the K50 Player was visible but there was no communication with the Server and so no files could be played. 

When I reinstalled and selected miniDNLA the K50 server was available in MConnectHD.

So to my mind one cannot just say that the Storage on the K50 is available to MPD player whether or not a server app is selected.

Mark says again that not long now and he has promised to touch base next week if any issues arise. 👍


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> When an ssd is added to the Antipodes a specific path is made for the library and is referenced by all player apps.



When I added SSDs to my K30, I selected storage under the K30server section.  If I click storage under the K30player it tells me that “No disks are part of your Storage yet”.  That’s what I’d expect with a 2-tier model.  Storage should only be seen by the servers to keep the activity associated with accessing a disk off of the player.

I wonder if there is some underlying option on your EX that is telling it to behave only as a single tier.


----------



## kennyb123

Triode User said:


> Mark says again that not long now and he has promised to touch base next week if any issues arise.


I hope they will soon have the rest of the guides uploaded to their portal.  A guide for MPD sure would help make sense of all this.

https://antipodes.audio/portal/guides/


----------



## Clive101

Triode User said:


> Clive, I was also interested so I uninstalled all the Server Apps on my K50. I then selected MPD Player app. With MConnectHD the K50 Player was visible but there was no communication with the Server and so no files could be played.
> 
> When I reinstalled and selected miniDNLA the K50 server was available in MConnectHD.
> 
> ...



I am able to pay with the miniDNLA with MPD...but that's running a server.
MPD player did find the music file and built a list of Albums and also had folder view....but no playback on it's own.


----------



## dgcurtis36

Clive101 said:


> I am able to pay with the miniDNLA with MPD...but that's running a server.
> MPD player did find the music file and built a list of Albums and also had folder view....but no playback on it's own.


It is possible that I ran the Setup procedure for MiniDLNA in Server, Scanned in the K50 library and later forgot? If that’s the only way to get sound then I must have, no way to check now.


----------



## Progisus

kennyb123 said:


> When I added SSDs to my K30, I selected storage under the K30server section.  If I click storage under the K30player it tells me that “No disks are part of your Storage yet”.  That’s what I’d expect with a 2-tier model.  Storage should only be seen by the servers to keep the activity associated with accessing a disk off of the player.
> 
> I wonder if there is some underlying option on your EX that is telling it to behave only as a single tier.


Hi Kenny,

Sorry if I am causing confusion as all this may not be available unless 3.1 is used.



This is the file tree created on my ssd. I added the PGGB folders. When I added my music files (all PGGB), I found this path and downloaded. The usbdrive was added by drive mounter and also contains PGGB files. I then loaded started MPD and it accessed all  the files under music and usbdrive automatically without a server app. The MLP app takes care of that as I think it is hard coded by sonicorbitor or now Antipodes to look for the local library. If you check under the MPD gethub help it talks about being able to access remote drives on other machines but we do not have access to change those config files. I did not have the ability to play them until a newer MPD version that was made available. I see from a previous post the MPD version from 3.1 is the newer version.

The reason I am presenting this is because of the sonic improvement a MPD direct controller such as Rigelian (OSX) or MALP which does not require the  stream to  go through the app.

Hopefully it will become apparent once 3.1 gets into the hands of more users. I saw in the pic of the 3 options that 1 and 2 refer to the created storage path even with a two computer unit.


----------



## kennyb123 (Sep 17, 2021)

Progisus said:


> This is the file tree created on my ssd


Yes, same tree that I see.  But my K30 shows up as two different computers. 



I can browse on each to see the storage … but the contents are not the same.  The top window is storage under K30server and the bottom is under K30player.  My point here is that the behavior you are seeing likely isn’t a 3.1 thing.  It’s likely the result of your EX being configured with the role “ServerPlayer”.  In the case of a K30 or K50, neither of the two boards will be configured as this.  One will be Server and the other will be Player.


----------



## td19

Yes, the Server/Player mode is the issue which is of course unattractive for K50/40/30 users. CX/EX operation is different, especially with Glider which behaves differently to the other MPD control apps.


----------



## Progisus

td19 said:


> Yes, the Server/Player mode is the issue which is of course unattractive for K50/40/30 users. CX/EX operation is different, especially with Glider which behaves differently to the other MPD control apps.


Only time will tell as 3.1 is rolled out. I’ll wait a bit to upgrade as I surely don’t want to lose the functionality I have.


----------



## td19

td19 said:


> It's not necessary to use a DLNA server with MPD, although it is certainly a useful facilty. MPD has access to the /storage folder on the Antipodes. For example, the iOS Glider and Android M.A.L.P apps allow the user to connect to setup a connection to port 6600 on the Antipodes. However MConnect does not seem to allow the user to define a direct server connection in this way.


The best option for K series users at present is to use a DLNA server as has been suggested. 'Native' MPD requires the player to be running on the same server as the MPD app, i.e. 'Server/Player' mode. Possibly this will change in 3.1.


----------



## cczero17

Trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong here. I've managed to set up Squeeze once but it just keeps searching. Yes it has been enabled, and My Antipodes has been set to CX - Roon and Squeeze...and EX to Squeeze. Just doesn't want to pick it up, but I've done it before last week 

Strange


----------



## worknprogress

cczero17 said:


> On or in Standby? ...and what happens if you don't leave it on and miss an update? I don't really want to keep my DAC on 24/7. My Aqua has tubes in it


I just saw something new for me in the Support Portal Home on the Antipodes website, titled Software Updates dated 18 September 2021.   It addresses leaving the Antipodes unit constantly On for pushed updates and indicates with a further update,AMSv3.1.1, all forms of system cache (not application cache) will be refreshed overnight so no need to reboot Antipodes to refresh system cache.  Sweet!

I do agree with you in that I would not leave tubed DAC constantly On--lower tube life plus the heat and energy usage.   Tubed gear I have used does take a bit of time for the tubes to sound their best when turned on, but not extensive time for established tubes.   I am not certain how long that truly is, but personally thought 15-30 minutes for more critical listening.


----------



## Triode User

cczero17 said:


> On or in Standby? ...and what happens if you don't leave it on and miss an update? I don't really want to keep my DAC on 24/7. My Aqua has tubes in it


It is only the Antipodes that they are advising to be powered on 24/7 in order to receive updates and to refresh its cache each night. Your DAC is not required to be powered on for this to happen.

If you miss an Antipodes update because your Antipodes was not left powered in they say it will receive the update the next time you power it on.

Personally I have always left my streamer/servers on 24/7 anyway.


----------



## kennyb123 (Sep 21, 2021)

Triode User said:


> Personally I have always left my streamer/servers on 24/7 anyway.


+1

I also leave my amp on all the time as the sound really does degrade if it's allowed to cool down.  It can take a couple days to return back to normal.  I really don't think I'm imaging this - but there's always that possibility, of course.


----------



## cczero17

worknprogress said:


> I just saw something new for me in the Support Portal Home on the Antipodes website, titled Software Updates dated 18 September 2021.   It addresses leaving the Antipodes unit constantly On for pushed updates and indicates with a further update,AMSv3.1.1, all forms of system cache (not application cache) will be refreshed overnight so no need to reboot Antipodes to refresh system cache.  Sweet!
> 
> I do agree with you in that I would not leave tubed DAC constantly On--lower tube life plus the heat and energy usage.   Tubed gear I have used does take a bit of time for the tubes to sound their best when turned on, but not extensive time for established tubes.   I am not certain how long that truly is, but personally thought 15-30 minutes for more critical listening.


I don't really want to leave the Antipodes units on (green light) either. I would much prefer to leave them in Standby (amber). So if I left them in Standby and didn't receive the overnight software file, would it be added once switched on? If not and a file was missed, how can it be retrieved?


----------



## kennyb123

cczero17 said:


> I don't really want to leave the Antipodes units on (green light) either. I would much prefer to leave them in Standby (amber). So if I left them in Standby and didn't receive the overnight software file, would it be added once switched on? If not and a file was missed, how can it be retrieved?


It would very likely only receive updates if it was left on at night when the updates were scheduled.  I honestly don't understand not leaving it on per Antipodes recommendation.  All that thermal cycling will very likely shorten its life.  And as others mentioned, sound quality will be sub-optimum if it's not allowed to thermally stabilize.


----------



## worknprogress

cczero17 said:


> I don't really want to leave the Antipodes units on (green light) either. I would much prefer to leave them in Standby (amber). So if I left them in Standby and didn't receive the overnight software file, would it be added once switched on? If not and a file was missed, how can it be retrieved?



cczero17, 

Did you read the Antipodes document posted on https://antipodes.audio/software-updates/ ?   It clearly speaks to the question you have posed--updates will be pushed during very early morning hours, anticipated 3-4 AM customer local time, and requires your unit to be On.  As noted, customers need to correctly configure their local time in System Settings, My Antipodes,  for your player, server, or player server.   Updates and future anticipated system cache refreshing will push through nightly per this timing.   Missed updates will push through on this timeline but does require your unit to be On, and, of course, connected to the internet.   I suppose you could probably try to trick the system by falsely configuring your Settings local time, but why?   What is your specific resistance to leaving the unit On constantly?   There is no high heat generated with my unit doing this--actually feels only slightly above room temperature.  You do not need to have your DAC left on for this process.


----------



## cczero17

worknprogress said:


> cczero17,
> 
> Did you read the Antipodes document posted on https://antipodes.audio/software-updates/ ?   It clearly speaks to the question you have posed--updates will be pushed during very early morning hours, anticipated 3-4 AM customer local time, and requires your unit to be On.  As noted, customers need to correctly configure their local time in System Settings, My Antipodes,  for your player, server, or player server.   Updates and future anticipated system cache refreshing will push through nightly per this timing.   Missed updates will push through on this timeline but does require your unit to be On, and, of course, connected to the internet.   I suppose you could probably try to trick the system by falsely configuring your Settings local time, but why?   What is your specific resistance to leaving the unit On constantly?   There is no high heat generated with my unit doing this--actually feels only slightly above room temperature.  You do not need to have your DAC left on for this process.


Just trying not to use electricity when not needed I guess. Ok I will leave them on but does make you think...is there a point to standby? (Amber)


----------



## Whazzzup

I never understood standby, and nothing i own yet has it, so no thoughts.


----------



## worknprogress

cczero17 said:


> Just trying not to use electricity when not needed I guess. Ok I will leave them on but does make you think...is there a point to standby? (Amber)


That's a very good question.   For me, I would take the system into shutdown if I were to be gone for a period of time, approaching a week or more,  or in strong anticipation of potential lightning.   With lightning I would also advocate disconnecting all cabling to the unit as well after taking to Standby shutdown.   I am also pretty cautious of hot swapping cabling, and certainly power down prior to changing a power cable.  I have also found myself hardware restarting or rebooting if switching server/player functions and unable to get proper response and cannot remedy via specific software restarts from the web interface--example Restart Roon Ready from Advanced menu within the Antipodes web interface.   I am interested in responses from other owners on this question as well.


----------



## kennyb123

cczero17 said:


> is there a point to standby? (Amber)


It’s not my impression that my K30 has what we normally think of as a standby mode.  It’s more of a “please wait as things are shutting down”.  Where a true standby mode helps is on devices where a middle ground is helpful.  It will keep some components charged to maintain thermal stabilization but shutdown those that can come back easily enough.  This is really a great thing to have on tubed gear or on Class A amps.


----------



## kennyb123

worknprogress said:


> For me, I would take the system into shutdown if I were to be gone for a period of time, approaching a week or more, or in strong anticipation of potential lightning. With lightning I would also advocate disconnecting all cabling to the unit as well after taking to Standby shutdown



Yes this is wise.  Better safe than sorry.  

I haven’t been unplugging gear since I got my Shunyata Denali because of it having an electromagnetic breaker.


----------



## richardloh (Sep 22, 2021)

Hi,

Antipodes is just a linux based computer (instead of MD window based) while audio component like my Audible Illusion L3B preamp keeps the tube circuitry warmed up to minimised optimal warm up time and save tube life.

Yes, internet is disabled.

Oops .. read again and kenny had mentioned the same:

It’s more of a “please wait as things are shutting down”. Where a true standby mode helps is on devices where a middle ground is helpful. It will keep some components charged to maintain thermal stabilization but shutdown those that can come back easily enough. This is really a great thing to have on tubed gear or on Class A amps.

Cheers.

Richard

PS: I keep ALL my components including router 🤪 powered except my tubed L3B occasionally on standby mode if not using for a day or more


----------



## Uncle Monty

Fired up my oladra cx ex for the first time, watched the various instruction videos, followed the instructions best I could. ROON tells me I have no music. Any advice, such as put it all on eBay and go back to playing vinyl?


----------



## richardloh (Sep 23, 2021)

Uncle Monty said:


> Fired up my oladra cx ex for the first time, watched the various instruction videos, followed the instructions best I could. ROON tells me I have no music. Any advice, such as put it all on eBay and go back to playing vinyl?


Hi Monty,

Go into cx dashboard by clicking on config icon and select squeeze.

Go into ex dashboard by clicking on config icon and you see your dac under output to select ?

Open up cx to play radio or your music files that you can find and still no sound ?

I can only offer this since not on roon as I am not learned like many others here and avoid complication I cannot handle .... but it was a breeze even for noob me.

Cheers.

Richard


----------



## Whazzzup

Uncle Monty said:


> Fired up my oladra cx ex for the first time, watched the various instruction videos, followed the instructions best I could. ROON tells me I have no music. Any advice, such as put it all on eBay and go back to playing vinyl?


Gosh it’s giving me upgrade itus. seriously, I like my DX sound as it is, and for years now easy roon use. I’m willing to upgrade but if it doesn’t plug n play my stress level will unnecessarily be tested


----------



## Uncle Monty (Sep 23, 2021)

If anyone is able to help I would be very much obliged - got CX with SSDs installed and EX attached with ethernet cable then attached to DAC via USB, everything worked fine before.

The EX Player dashboard has Roon highlighted, Output USB Audio - Chord highlighted and DOP highlighted.

EX Server dashboard has Roon highlighted.

CX Server dashboard has Roon highlighted.

CX Server dashboard has Roon highlighted.

I've no idea if this is correct - especially the CX bit (is anything in CX supposed to be highlighted? No idea)

Guidance?

oh, and on Roon I just have the Roon symbol doing whatever with nothing happening.


----------



## Amberlamps

Triode User said:


> It is only the Antipodes that they are advising to be powered on 24/7 in order to receive updates and to refresh its cache each night. Your DAC is not required to be powered on for this to happen.
> 
> If you miss an Antipodes update because your Antipodes was not left powered in they say it will receive the update the next time you power it on.
> 
> Personally I have always left my streamer/servers on 24/7 anyway.



I use my Nuc as a roon streamer and it’s left on 24/7.

My simple 8559u nuc is more than capable of being a totally silent streamer that never goes above 35oC.

Boy, I must say that ios 15 looks very nice and dare I say it, smooooth


----------



## richardloh

Uncle Monty said:


> If anyone is able to help I would be very much obliged - got CX with SSDs installed and EX attached with ethernet cable then attached to DAC via USB, everything worked fine before.
> 
> The EX Player dashboard has Roon highlighted, Output USB Audio - Chord highlighted and DOP highlighted.
> 
> ...



What do you see in output ? Your dac appears and highlighted but still no sound ?


----------



## worknprogress

Uncle Monty,


You have opened Roon via web interface on your computer or via app on your phone or mobile device, correct?   
If so, does it show Connected to your Roon Core, your Antipodes server?
If so, does Roon show your Chord as playing device?


----------



## Uncle Monty (Sep 23, 2021)

Yes
Roon Core - EX (under General)
under audio got mscaler

under 'My Albums' says storage location offline

edit - can listen to radio - great!

just need Roon to find music on my SSDs in the CX - is there something I need to do in the File Manager in CX server dashboard?


----------



## worknprogress

In the Roon Configuration for My Antipodes Server, Library Tools, is your hard drive with your music reflected in Manage Storage?


----------



## Uncle Monty

yes - the SSDs are showing in library tools / manage storage on CX server dashboard


----------



## worknprogress

I am not familiar with Chord and MScaler, but went to the website.   It appears to me the MScaler has a USB input but outputs to the DAC via Digital, BNC or Optical.  If I am correct, then I believe you should have your Antipodes Player configuration for Roon set to Digital, not USB.


----------



## Uncle Monty

Somehow managed to to get SSD music to appear on Roon - except now I have two of everything...oh well..


----------



## worknprogress

Also, for your Roon web interface, under Settings, Storage, is your music shown?   Mine shows Music Folder with the total number of my tracks imported.  This is what is shown in Library Tools, File Manager under Server Apps.  I do not yet have the new software pushed to me for my K50, so your GUI may be different than mine.


----------



## worknprogress

Whoops, just saw your new post after I sent my last one.   

For me, there is this statement below when selecting Roon as Server.  I do not know if your double music showings are due to you setting up another watched folder in Roon itself or not.   I would suggest reaching out to Mark Cole on this, just in case.
Important Notes​When you setup Roon Server on your remote control device there are two important points to note:


DO NOT set any watched folders in Roon. This is because your library location is pre-set for you on K50server including internally stored files and any external locations you have added using the tools provided on the Library page. Adding a watched folder that overlaps with a pre-set folder will trigger a loop in Roon that will cause over-heating and may thereby cause damage to your Antipodes Music Server.
DO NOT set Roon Background Analysis to use more than 2 cores at 100%. Using more than 2 cores at 100% for some hours would require fan cooling and we do not include fans due to their negative effect on the listening experience.


----------



## Uncle Monty (Sep 23, 2021)

I think I will reach out to Mark...especially if my CX suddenly bursts into flames and sees my trousers on fire (again)


----------



## Whazzzup

Antipodes>storage>music>flac for mine. I’ll leave a heads up from mark pertaining to dx3 on my thread but DX owners don’t need to remove ssd for upgrade, they just need an external back up that I do through my antipodes to a USB stick.


----------



## worknprogress

My music is also in Flac folder within Music folder.   This is also my configuration I used with my Small Green Computer i5 CDR, not now in active use.


----------



## kennyb123

worknprogress said:


> It appears to me the MScaler has a USB input but outputs to the DAC via Digital, BNC or Optical. If I am correct, then I believe you should have your Antipodes Player configuration for Roon set to Digital, not USB.



No it should be USB.


----------



## Uncle Monty

yes - under Roon Settings / Storage / Folders I've got both Music Folder and CX / ? / Storage / Music - both with exact same tracks in them, so I suppose I can delete one.


----------



## kennyb123

Uncle Monty said:


> EX Server dashboard has Roon highlighted.
> 
> CX Server dashboard has Roon highlighted.
> 
> ...


Can you share screenshots?  This is difficult for me to visualize.


----------



## worknprogress

kennyb123 said:


> No it should be USB.


Sorry for the misinformation on my part.  I was going by the info I downloaded and interpreted from manual.


----------



## Triode User

.


Uncle Monty said:


> yes - under Roon Settings / Storage / Folders I've got both Music Folder and CX / ? / Storage / Music - both with exact same tracks in them, so I suppose I can delete one.


It might have just got confused. I have had duplicate servers and players showing when I have been blundering around. So far if left alone for a day it has sorted itself out.


----------



## kennyb123

worknprogress said:


> Sorry for the misinformation on my part. I was going by the info I downloaded and interpreted from manual.


Roon outputs to the M-Scaler and has no idea of what happens from there.


----------



## worknprogress

On my Mola Mola Makua, I have set up the preamp presets to try out various outputs, USB and AES/EBU, from the K50 as well as the ethernet input on the Makua, which utilizes the Roon Ready Mola Mola player.   Because I had the extra presets, I have one for USB and one for AES/EBU.  However, I still need to go to My Antipodes and configure the Player for Digital (AES/EBU) or USB, depending on which I wish to use.  Roon web interface reflects Antipodes D2, K50,  then Digital or USB as Output in the Signal Path.   I had made assumption that M-Scaler would be similarly reflected for its output to the DAC and would so need to be configured in the Active Player Control Panel for Antipodes.


----------



## kennyb123

worknprogress said:


> I had made assumption that M-Scaler would be similarly reflected for its output to the DAC and would so need to be configured in the Active Player Control Panel for Antipodes.


I can certainly understand why you might have arrived at that conclusion.  The M-Scaler is a different beast though. Its entire purpose is to make the data no longer bit perfect by applying upscaling that aims to restore the timing that’s lost when converting analog to digital.  It actually behaves as if it was the first stage of a Chord DAC.  When paired with a Chord DAC, the DAC’s first stage is actually bypassed.  What you end up with is two separate boxes doing the work of a single box.  The FPGA inside the M-Scaler is a noisy beast so it needs to be in a separate box. That the M-Scaler outputs to dual BNC was due to Chord wanting to get it out to market quickly.  

Rob Watts brilliance comes shining through really well in terms of how he planned all this.  What follows is a block diagram of the DAVE.  Each of his DACs have a similar block diagram.  The functionality that you see in the FPGA box is essentially what’s found in M-Scaler, though the M-Scaler takes it much further by using a far more powerful FPGA.  The digital to analog conversion actually happens in that Pulse Array box outside the FPGA box.  Rob Watts is now working on a digital amp project that will essentially be that pulse array DAC on steroids so the output current is increased.  The TT2 has already benefited from some of this innovation, which is why it’s able to drive high efficiency speakers.

Disclaimer:  I’m sure I made some mistakes in how I described the above because much of it is above my pay grade.  But hopefully I got enough right to help provide some greater context.


----------



## cczero17 (Sep 25, 2021)

Uncle Monty said:


> Fired up my oladra cx ex for the first time, watched the various instruction videos, followed the instructions best I could. ROON tells me I have no music. Any advice, such as put it all on eBay and go back to playing vinyl?


You have selected the CX to be server only and the EX to be player only? I actually found settings this up a doddle which surprised me.

The only thing I'm having issues with is setting up Squeeze. For some reason the audio player just cannot be found


----------



## Uncle Monty

cczero17 said:


> You have selected the CX to be server only and the EX to be player only? I actually found settings this up a doddle which surprised me.
> 
> The only think I'm having issues with is setting up Squeeze. For some reason the audio player just cannot be found


Once I worked that out things started clicking - also getting Roon to recognise my MScaler by confirming it in the Roon settings. Setting it up was simpler than I imagined - I did watch the instructional videos but they were more concerned with newer Antipodes products, unless I missed something which, knowing myself, I probably did.


----------



## Uncle Monty

Triode User said:


> .
> 
> It might have just got confused. I have had duplicate servers and players showing when I have been blundering around. So far if left alone for a day it has sorted itself out.


Good advice - knowing my luck I'll delete one and lose everything...


----------



## Uncle Monty

All said and done, this CX/EX OLADRA update is pretty good - difficult to be very accurate when I've been without them for a month but everything seems to be enhanced - bass, clarity etc - really enjoying it and probably worth it just for the blue lights alone.


----------



## Whazzzup

Cool, hope there’s enough DX interest after I peppered Marc with emails with my concerns and he assured me I’m good to go….


----------



## cczero17

Uncle Monty said:


> If anyone is able to help I would be very much obliged - got CX with SSDs installed and EX attached with ethernet cable then attached to DAC via USB, everything worked fine before.
> 
> The EX Player dashboard has Roon highlighted, Output USB Audio - Chord highlighted and DOP highlighted.
> 
> ...


Isn't it as simple as setting your CX as Server only and EX as player only? I think they both default to Server+Player. This could be causing issues


----------



## Uncle Monty

I got there in the end!


----------



## richardloh (Sep 25, 2021)

Uncle Monty said:


> All said and done, this CX/EX OLADRA update is pretty good - difficult to be very accurate when I've been without them for a month but everything seems to be enhanced - bass, clarity etc - really enjoying it and probably worth it just for the blue lights alone.


Indeed, blue led is worth the effort that I hv to credit myself for making the request to Mark 🤣

2 yrs added warranty is worth some big $ 😃

To know what is oladra is about is nice without resorting to usd15 k50  ... to me, basically darker background and more music * after 2 weeks + intense audition 😍

Residual value oladra upgraded version to differentiate from standard cx and ex is also icing on the cake .... and so is the scratch on the upgrade itch .. lol ! 😁

* in terms of vfm, I have to say that recent ER + oxco clock brought more and so did my further cybershaft oxco clock and mundorf supreme silver gold oil capacitors upgrades to my already quite spectacular Denafrip T+ dac in my system ... ymmv as usual


----------



## richardloh (Sep 26, 2021)

Progisus said:


> Squeeze will let you use Tidal and Qobuz. Once you upgrade 705/768 as well. With 2.8 on my EX I have Squeeze - 705/768 which works well for PGGB. MPD direct is a bit better imho. Still loving Roon / Hqplayer for convenience.


Hi Kenny/Antipodes Users in Singapore,

Ready to try out 24bit 192hz streaming to find out how much better it can sound compared to free full flac stations at 16bits 44.1khz ones.

Since you are in Singapore without available Qobuz subscription and indeed I am a noob on just Squeeze, is Tidal worthwhile without MQA compatible dac like my T+ plus dac ?

What are the alternatives for Antipodes users in Singapore in other included Apps in our Antipodes although I really hope I can stay with Squeeze to avoid any Apps dabbling ?

Thanks and cheers.

Richard


----------



## richardloh

Seems all ok .. will get son in Perth to sign up and Qobuz here I come ....

https://help.qobuz.com/hc/en-us/articles/360010260660-Where-is-Qobuz-available-


----------



## Whazzzup

Ok noobish question. Whats the difference between using my antipodes and the back up app to a usb stick and using roon settings to back up say to same usb stick. and why would one back up to storage roon back ups on the ssd in the antipodes? i mean why store on a drive that you want to back up in case it crashed?


----------



## kennyb123

Whazzzup said:


> Ok noobish question. Whats the difference between using my antipodes and the back up app to a usb stick and using roon settings to back up say to same usb stick. and why would one back up to storage roon back ups on the ssd in the antipodes? i mean why store on a drive that you want to back up in case it crashed?


These are great questions.  I think one needs to have a strategy for dealing with the fallout of a server or disk failing.  My music and my Roon configuration are both backed up to my NAS.  I'm unfamiliar with the Antipodes back up app as that doesn't exists on AMS 3.0.  But if it backs up everything that's on the hard drive, then it would back up the Roon backups too.


----------



## worknprogress

I have been interested in how we backup to a separate USB drive on the newer Antipodes units and software.   I have just started a thread on the Antipodes forum asking about this.   My prior Small Green Computer used similar software interface as AMSv2 that mounted external USB drive and backup application.


----------



## Whazzzup

here's marks backup advice, don't use the root for roon back ups. Interesting that the new myantipodes does not have the back up app. for myself and DX  just stick in a usb stick and hit the app and I believe it backs up everything. So it might be a duplicate procedure of roons settings back up.....
https://antipodes.support/t/roon-back-up-correct-location/76

just don't get why one would back the drive up onto the same drive?


----------



## td19

Whazzzup said:


> Ok noobish question. Whats the difference between using my antipodes and the back up app to a usb stick and using roon settings to back up say to same usb stick. and why would one back up to storage roon back ups on the ssd in the antipodes? i mean why store on a drive that you want to back up in case it crashed?


The Antipodes backup app backs up the music library, i.e. the rips and downloads stored on the internal SSD in sub-folders under the /storage folder. The Roon DB backup backs up the Roon database that contains playlists, tags, cover changes etc .... any metadata that you have added in Roon. If the Roon DB backup is stored in a user-created 'RoonBackups' folder under /storage it will then also be backed up to the external storage together with the music files.


----------



## richardloh (Sep 29, 2021)

Qobuz's 24bits 192khz at 4.7k+kbps is surprising more harsh, less musical and less detailed and extended from top-hat strikes than stored dsd on ssd at 2.8+kbps.

Quite obvious and easily discerned with both on playlist and exceptional music from start of Sonny's Cool Struttin' by forwarding the 2 tracks.

Listen further to varied selections and cannot say that I am impressed with limited 24bit 192kbps streaming and see little purpose except for those albums that I do not already have 😏

Save $300/yr and avoid temptation to add more music files especially since already primarily on 24/7 16bits 44.1khz free great sounding internet radios and played probably 3% of my 8tb ssd in last 2 yrs? 😅

Ymmv as usual ....


----------



## Presence

If you can borrow an EtherRegen to try out at your internet input to the EX, it might help to close the gap....


----------



## kennyb123

richardloh said:


> Qobuz's 24bits 192khz at 4k+kbps is more harsh, less musical and less detailed and extended than stored dsd on ssd at 2.8+kbps.
> 
> Quite obvious and easily discerned with both on playlist and exceptional music from start of Sonny's Cool Struttin' by forward the 2 tracks.



DSD may be from another master, so you need to be careful with those.

Check out Herbie Hancock’s “Maiden Voyage”.  The high res PCM master was done by Yoshida and is superb.  If you like the music then consider purchasing a track from their download store or other seller.  Then you can compare the exact same files/master streamed vs SSD.

Wayne Shorter’s “Speak No Evil” is another fantastic remaster done by Yoshida.  More on these:  https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rel...for-the-first-time-on-hdtracks-163852496.html


----------



## richardloh (Sep 29, 2021)

Presence said:


> If you can borrow an EtherRegen to try out at your internet input to the EX, it might help to close the gap....


Hi Presence,

Thanks ,... I already have 2X ERs and also 2X oxco clocks to bypass the femto clock in the ER before cx as well as between the oladra upgraded ex and cx.

Indeed also that I can vouch for the obvious improvement with ER but external oxco clock upgrade is a must to me after having them.

Cheers


----------



## richardloh (Sep 29, 2021)

kennyb123 said:


> DSD may be from another master, so you need to be careful with those.
> 
> Check out Herbie Hancock’s “Maiden Voyage”.  The high res PCM master was done by Yoshida and is superb.  If you like the music then consider purchasing a track from their download store or other seller.  Then you can compare the exact same files/master streamed vs SSD.
> 
> Wayne Shorter’s “Speak No Evil” is another fantastic remaster done by Yoshida.  More on these:  https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rel...for-the-first-time-on-hdtracks-163852496.html


Hey Kenny,

Indeed and I do think dsd releases are specially handled since for discerning audiophiles in the 1st place.

Nevertheless, still limited 24bits 192khz albums especially chinese ones as compared to my 90% filled 2x4TB and hence will probably not bother with Qobuz but to terminate this free one month's trial next few days.

2.23 am and just switched to free Hionline 16bit 44.1khz and so musical to my ears and do try it to share your finding if had not done so. Even 192khz broadcast from The Wave - Relaxing Music and WRTI jazz suffices for me.

HiOnline full flac:
http://mscp2.live-streams.nl:8100/flac.flac

Bitrate is one aspect and mastering is certainly another but playback equipment like those used by Hionline, The Wave, WRTI etc. is another which I had expected more from revenue earning big guys like Qobuz etc. including paying for best masters ?

Cheers.


----------



## richardloh (Sep 29, 2021)

Hi Kenny/Presence,

Just tried Hotel California and same findings.

I can 100% pick up dsd version on my SSD being obviously better sounding than the 24bit 192khz Qobuz's at twice the bitrate of 5M+ kbps which sounded dull in comparison .... in my system.

Cheers.

Richard


----------



## kennyb123 (Sep 29, 2021)

richardloh said:


> Just tried Hotel California and same findings.



Again, I’m not so sure you are comparing file formats.  These are different masters.

Some DACs do favor DSD while others favor PCM.  DSD can sound great but many albums aren’t available in DSD.


I think the value of Qobuz isn’t to give me better sounding versions of what’s already in my library.  It’s to offer me the best sound from what’s not.  If I like the music I might purchase and download albums.


----------



## kennyb123

richardloh said:


> I can 100% pick up dsd version on my SSD being obviously better sounding than the 24bit 192khz Qobuz's at twice the bitrate of 5M+ kbps which sounded dull in comparison .... in my system.


What’s your reaction to this track:  https://open.qobuz.com/track/46264840


----------



## Presence

kennyb123 said:


> What’s your reaction to this track:  https://open.qobuz.com/track/46264840


Nice! Added to my library to listen in entirety later.


----------



## kennyb123

Presence said:


> Nice! Added to my library to listen in entirety later.



She’s amazing.  Killer sound quality too.  It is albums like that which make Qobuz worth the cost.


----------



## Presence

kennyb123 said:


> She’s amazing.  Killer sound quality too.  It is albums like that which make Qobuz worth the cost.


I just downloaded the 24/88.2 Flac file from Qobuz and as expected -  the backing vocals are not smeared compared to the streamed experience of the same 24/88.2.
An overall better holography and level of clarity all around.
Thanks for the music referral Ken!


----------



## kennyb123

Presence said:


> the backing vocals are not smeared compared to the streamed experience of the same 24/88.2.


Interesting that you heard that much of a difference between the streamed version and the downloaded version.  I’ve not performed that comparison in a while.  Last time I did it, I found that my network optimizations had reduced the gap between them, but the local files were still better.  This was back when I was using an Innuos Zenith Mk3.  I have not repeated it since I got the K30 because PGGB has made my local files so much better that it’s not even a fair fight.


----------



## atya35mm

kennyb123 said:


> Interesting that you heard that much of a difference between the streamed version and the downloaded version.  I’ve not performed that comparison in a while.  Last time I did it, I found that my network optimizations had reduced the gap between them, but the local files were still better.  This was back when I was using an Innuos Zenith Mk3.  I have not repeated it since I got the K30 because PGGB has made my local files so much better that it’s not even a fair fight.


I had the same experience where I was much preferring the local SSD version vs streaming Qobuz of the same tracks. This was when I was hooking up a stock ethernet cable directly to my Netgear router. 

I have since added a Shunyata Alpha ethernet and an Innuos PhoenixNET between the antipodes k30 and the Netgear router, with the alpha ethernet cable being the one connected to the k30, and it sounds ridiculous saying this, but I now prefer streaming to local SSD. Streaming now has a touch more separation and depth, but it's not a big difference so who knows, could be me dreaming it up.   

Getting off tangent here, but I also find it bit mind blowing the difference between different players like MPD, Roon and LMS. The differences between each of them equate to something similar to a change in USB cables or interconnects or even power cables. I would have forked out $$$$ to get to the sound I like (MPD) but good thing it's just software and it's a click of a button!


----------



## barbz127

Would anyone know of a guide or recommended apps to setup MPD as an alternative server/player to Roon?

I have all my music stored on an internal drive of an S40 and want to be able to use a windows PC and android as remotes to control.

Thankyou


----------



## atya35mm

Possibly somewhere in here might help, pg55 for MPD solution. 

https://antipodes.audio/amsv2-guide/?page=2


----------



## atya35mm

Saw this being shared in another forum, thought others might find the review entertaining to read. One thing which jumps out to me, is Mark Jenkins mentioned the Antipodes K50 takes about 3 days to settle down every single time you turn it off. I was testing different power cables for a while last time, so probably lost the benefit of the settling in as I might change power cables before the 3 day period is up.   

https://www.stereophile.com/content/antipodes-audio-k50-music-server


----------



## magnuska

atya35mm said:


> Saw this being shared in another forum, thought others might find the review entertaining to read. One thing which jumps out to me, is Mark Jenkins mentioned the Antipodes K50 takes about 3 days to settle down every single time you turn it off. I was testing different power cables for a while last time, so probably lost the benefit of the settling in as I might change power cables before the 3 day period is up.
> 
> https://www.stereophile.com/content/antipodes-audio-k50-music-server


Yes I noticed similar when I added My first OXCO clock for ER.
So I Guess K50 has some HQ Components including oscillators.


----------



## richardloh (Sep 30, 2021)

kennyb123 said:


> What’s your reaction to this track:  https://open.qobuz.com/track/46264840


Hey Kenny,

Thanks and wow !

Vocal very intimate, natural, clear intonation with distinct backup singers .. got body on double bass and clapping is damn crisp. Depth is great and so is staging .. not crazily sensurroud but extend outside speakers for sure.

However, just searched and listened for an hour  before noting your recommendation to hires Madonna, Eagle, Reo Speedwagon and some other "HiRes" selection. It was quick forwarding EVERY track .. vocal got reverb and not even clear 🤦‍♂️.

Switched back to Hionline and even 192khz The Wave - Relaxing Music and got back confidence that there is nothing wrong with my system and your recommended track .. lol !

No, Qobuz is not for me cos still disappointed overall .. mastering version or not, it was NOT enjoyable overall if searching for music that I know but not already dsd or other high quality rips.

Thanks again and btw, you have playlist like this recommended track to share cos great stuff !

Cheers.

PS: listening to the while Birds album as I type this msg 🙏🙏🥳


----------



## Whazzzup

DX3 the same as referenced by mark, don’t turn it off, or give it time to warm up to be at its best.


----------



## richardloh (Sep 30, 2021)

magnuska said:


> Yes I noticed similar when I added My first OXCO clock for ER.
> So I Guess K50 has some HQ Components including oscillators.



Do not believe due to oscillator unless oxco which Antipodes does not have. Even femto clock like in Denafrips standard Terminator dac or Uptone ER stabilises within minutes or hours.

Caps also need time to get fully charged up and stabilise.

My AD double crown oxco clock takes up to 30 days to get to 100% once power is removed. After same 3 days, will hear clearly an arbitrary 70% performance only and at least 1 week to get to again arbitrary 90%.

But not all oxco takes such long time ... Terminator Plus with one and another China oxco clock from recycled one of decomissioned 4G Telecom base stations/repeaters only take just 1 day to 90% arbitrarily.

Cheers.


----------



## Progisus

Unfortunately i’ve had to move my roon core from the ex to a nuc. Although the sound is superior when on the ex I found the constant loss of tidal and qobuz sign in too distracting. But that is what roon recommends anyway.

On another note, for those who complain of roon’s sound engine…. I have settled on using hqplayer embedded on the ex sans any upscaling, filtering or noise shaping as the roon engine. I am actually preferring the non upscaled sound for streaming and the hqplayer output I find superior to the roon ready sound. All my local library is remastered with PGGB to 16fs 24b and can be instantly played back through roon/hqplayer as it‘s settings are as required. This allows my PGGB library to curated by roon.

Waiting for the new YES album to drop and my bluray (5.1) to arrive from England.

Any news on ams 3.2?


----------



## Triode User

richardloh said:


> Hey Kenny,
> 
> Thanks and wow !
> 
> ...


 are we talking here of streaming the tracks from the sites or downloading the tracks to the local hard drive in the server/streamer? I tend to do the latter for best sound quality with my K50.


----------



## Triode User

Progisus said:


> Any news on ams 3.2?


 Are you ahead of yourself? Still waiting for 3.1 here. 

It will be interesting with 3.1 how you get on with the latest Squeeze/Squeezelite which can play the PGGB files.


----------



## worknprogress

richardloh said:


> Do not believe due to oscillator unless oxco which Antipodes does not have. Even femto clock like in Denafrips standard Terminator dac or Uptone ER stabilises within minutes or hours.
> 
> Caps also need time to get fulky charged up and stabilise.
> 
> ...


I believe the K50 does have OXCO--Technology FAQ on Antipodes website references oven controlled clocks for the R1x Reclocker Board and connections specifications shows OCXO Word Clock Master Output on BNC.


----------



## richardloh

Triode User said:


> are we talking here of streaming the tracks from the sites or downloading the tracks to the local hard drive in the server/streamer? I tend to do the latter for best sound quality with my K50.


Hi Triode,

Sorry cos noob here and I am referring to streaming.

I am on trial 1 mth which I do not believe allows me to download.

I will go with Kenny's that mastering differs and I am only saying that I am a bit disappointed with this 24bit 192khz for mentioned commercial releases that did not sound nice to me as compared to dsd that I already have. Hence no purpose for me for the Qobuz subscription.

Furthermore, Kenny has shared the recommended track which sounded great but of audiophile mastering/release .... back to mastering.

Cheers.


----------



## richardloh (Sep 30, 2021)

worknprogress said:


> I believe the K50 does have OXCO--Technology FAQ on Antipodes website references oven controlled clocks for the R1x Reclocker Board and connections specifications shows OCXO Word Clock Master Output on BNC.



Hi worknprogress,

Thanks for the correction but that oxco clock aka oscillator is as a masterclock to sync other components with clock input for higher performance with reduced jitters but has no bearing on actual K50 performance when not in use.

I had assumed the discussion on general mobo clocking that Antipodes is not with such oxco clock and hence not related to the need to have the mentioned 3 days warm up duration.

Hope this clarifies 🙏

Cheers.


----------



## Progisus

Triode User said:


> Are you ahead of yourself? Still waiting for 3.1 here.
> 
> It will be interesting with 3.1 how you get on with the latest Squeeze/Squeezelite which can play the PGGB files.


oops


----------



## richardloh

Presence said:


> I just downloaded the 24/88.2 Flac file from Qobuz and as expected -  the backing vocals are not smeared compared to the streamed experience of the same 24/88.2.
> An overall better holography and level of clarity all around.
> Thanks for the music referral Ken!



No smearing in my audition while streaming since I cannot/did not download the track ... in fact, I mentioned to Kenny that back singers were distinct.

Cheers.


----------



## kennyb123

atya35mm said:


> Saw this being shared in another forum, thought others might find the review entertaining to read. One thing which jumps out to me, is Mark Jenkins mentioned the Antipodes K50 takes about 3 days to settle down every single time you turn it off. I was testing different power cables for a while last time, so probably lost the benefit of the settling in as I might change power cables before the 3 day period is up.
> 
> https://www.stereophile.com/content/antipodes-audio-k50-music-server


Thanks for sharing the link.  I'm really glad to see that Antipodes got such a favorable review.

Interesting about the "3 days to get back to optimum performance".  That may be a factor of the number of components inside.  There are two separate boards - with one running a lower power CPU that might take longer to temperature stabilize. Then there's also the separate reclocker.  

I was taken aback by "You really don't want to use USB".  I hope Mark Jenkins hasn't given up on USB altogether.  Taiko has shown that USB can turned into something that's superb.  PhoenixUSB helps to make a case for that too.


----------



## Whazzzup (Sep 30, 2021)

Back in the day mark liked usb, it’s one of the main reasons why I got dtgs then DX. Cause of chord HD calvinized USB port.


----------



## Presence (Sep 30, 2021)

richardloh said:


> Hi worknprogress,
> 
> Thanks for the correction but that oxco clock aka oscillator is as a masterclock to sync other components with clock input for higher performance with reduced jitters but has no bearing on actual K50 performance when not in use.
> 
> ...


Back in my DX2/3 days, Stereophile reviewed the Aurender N10 with OCXO master clock - https://www.stereophile.com/content/aurender-n10-music-server
John Atkinson, who reviewed the DX2 and Aurender N10 [I believe] concluded the SQ of both units was close to a tie.
Since I was into OCXO mods at the time, I asked Mark Jenkins if I could swap the TCXO in the DX2 for an OCXO, would the DX2 perform better...
Mark gave an elaborate response that he had run experiments with better timing sources and there was no SQ difference. He offered to send me a circuit board for me to test out but I never heard back from him.

Pertaining to Qobuz streaming -
There were times where I thought the Qobuz streaming was close to my library version where on occasion, I deleted my decades-old 16/44.1 library copy of a recording for a 24/96 or 24/192 streamed version. Back to Kenny's assertion that the newer hi-res version could have been a remix and likely would have involved updated technology for  A/D or D/D.
When I compared the downloaded Domonique Fils-Aime "Nameless" to the streamed copy there was a vagueness to the perimeter of the soundstage and I did hear blurring when there were two or more voices singing harmony. Not knowing what is acceptable Network Performance parameters for an audiophile streaming application,  I wonder if time-of-day network conditions play a role in the SQ delta...


----------



## richardloh (Oct 1, 2021)

Presence said:


> Not knowing what is acceptable Network Performance parameters for an audiophile streaming application,  I wonder if time-of-day network conditions play a role in the SQ delta...



Hi Presence,

I am bias to wifi due to failed SQ trial with 25m wired Supra cat 8 cable from main router and I err with Uptone's advice and din bother with fiber unless provision is available in the 1st place.

With that, I have a dedicated wifi mesh node to ER/clock to cx to avoid time of day network conditions as well as 2 dedicated 20A/30A to avoid household power condition and attribute indeed better SQ to simply the usual environmental noises since without dedicated soundproof listening room.

Yes, I also recently checked with Mark if there is available oxco clock in mobo to be included during oladra upgrade and had been advised that it is not possible nor available. Hence the AD oxco and and ER/china oxco since if I cannot get it during processing by mobos of cx and ex, I wiĺl have it during transmission which fortunately turned out positive.

Cheers.


----------



## kennyb123

richardloh said:


> I will go with Kenny's that mastering differs and I am only saying that I am a bit disappointed with this 24bit 192khz for mentioned commercial releases that did not sound nice to me as compared to dsd that I already have. Hence no purpose for me for the Qobuz subscription.
> 
> Furthermore, Kenny has shared the recommended track which sounded great but of audiophile mastering/release .... back to mastering.


I will recommend a few more tracks this weekend.  In the interim, check out Van Morrison's "Moondance" album in 192/24.  This album is a masterpiece - and I think this is one of the better commercial releases in high res.

"Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness" from the Smashing Pumpkins and "Under the Pink" are also really well done.

On the jazz side of things, check out some of the ECM releases.  Manu Katche's "Neighborhood" and "Playground" sound pretty stunning, for example.


----------



## Presence

kennyb123 said:


> I will recommend a few more tracks this weekend.  In the interim, check out Van Morrison's "Moondance" album in 192/24.  This album is a masterpiece - and I think this is one of the better commercial releases in high res.
> 
> "Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness" from the Smashing Pumpkins and "Under the Pink" are also really well done.
> 
> On the jazz side of things, check out some of the ECM releases.  Manu Katche's "Neighborhood" and "Playground" sound pretty stunning, for example.


Check out Manu Katche playing "No Jive" on Burning For Buddy produced by Neil Peart with the Buddy Rich Band. Prior to your mentioning Manu, I had no idea who he was [head in the sand ]


----------



## Whazzzup

My two favourites of manu the unstatic and the scope


----------



## Triode User

Presence said:


> Pertaining to Qobuz streaming -
> There were times where I thought the Qobuz streaming was close to my library version where on occasion, I deleted my decades-old 16/44.1 library copy of a recording for a 24/96 or 24/192 streamed version. Back to Kenny's assertion that the newer hi-res version could have been a remix and likely would have involved updated technology for A/D or D/D.
> When I compared the downloaded Domonique Fils-Aime "Nameless" to the streamed copy there was a vagueness to the perimeter of the soundstage and I did hear blurring when there were two or more voices singing harmony. Not knowing what is acceptable Network Performance parameters for an audiophile streaming application, I wonder if time-of-day network conditions play a role in the SQ delta...


I have found the Innuos PhoenixNET has helped take the streamed version closer to the locally stored file with my K50. This replaced my EtherRegen and I have never regretted that change,


----------



## Presence (Sep 30, 2021)

Triode User said:


> I have found the Innuos PhoenixNET has helped take the streamed version closer to the locally stored file with my K50. This replaced my EtherRegen and I have never regretted that change,


Thank you for sharing your experience. The Phoenix USB certainly kicked the pants off the ISO Regen in my system.
Is there a % improvement you'd be able to pin to that upgrade? I do have a Mutec 10M Ref 120 SE tied to the EtherRegens.


----------



## td19

barbz127 said:


> Would anyone know of a guide or recommended apps to setup MPD as an alternative server/player to Roon?
> 
> I have all my music stored on an internal drive of an S40 and want to be able to use a windows PC and android as remotes to control.
> 
> Thankyou


There is virtually no setup required to use MPD as the server/player. MPD itself is pre-installed. You must install the MPD/DLNA Renderer app, if not already installed and set it as the active player. MPD will be automatically started.

Cantata is possibly the best Windows app for controlling MPD. In 'Preferences' you specify the IP Address of your S40, and the location of the music library:





M.A.L.P, Rigelian, and SoundIrok are among the Android apps that you can use. In each case you will configure the device, i.e. the S40 IP Address, and the music library, usually in the form IP Address/storage or IP  Address/storage/music. All should find the active MPD player on the Antipodes automatically.

The MPD app and the MPD/DLNA player app must be running on the same server.


----------



## richardloh

Triode User said:


> I have found the Innuos PhoenixNET has helped take the streamed version closer to the locally stored file with my K50. This replaced my EtherRegen and I have never regretted that change,



Nice ... but Innuos PhoenixNET at usd3.5k vs usd650 for the ER or usd2k with AD double crown oxco clock. I can only imagine how much better since will not be spending any more although tempted for a used Mutec ref10 120se but resisted successfully 😅


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## richardloh (Oct 1, 2021)

Presence said:


> I do have a Mutec 10M Ref 120 SE tied to the EtherRegens.



Nice nice oxco clock with multiple isolated outputs and available 50/75ohm options by user but usd7k or even at sgd6.2k used one locally is beyond what I will/can spend on. 🥺


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## Triode User (Oct 1, 2021)

richardloh said:


> Nice ... but Innuos PhoenixNET at usd3.5k vs usd650 for the ER or usd2k with AD double crown oxco clock. I can only imagine how much better since will not be spending any more although tempted for a used Mutec ref10 120se but resisted successfully 😅


The only way to know is to listen in ones own system. I listened and compared the PhoenixNET with the ER + good clock. The ER made a difference that I could hear but it was not in the direction of neutrality. The test I used was to compare the sound quality of streamed music trying that with the different switches and then compared that to local files being played with the ethernet plug pulled out from the back of the Antipodes. The PhoenixNET was the only one to get even close to the same sound as this. I used that method because I have found that even having the Antipodes connected to ethernet impacted on the sound quality when playing local files. Again though, using the PhoenixNET was the only one which to my ears had no impact on the sound quality of local files and allowed me to keep the Antipodes connected to the ethernet full time with no impact on sound quality. This by the way is not an Antipodes ‘thing’ per se. I have friends who set an album playing on their Extreme and then pull out the ethernet plug in order to get the best sound quality.


----------



## Presence

Triode User said:


> The only way to know is to listen in ones own system. I listened and compared the PhoenixNET with the ER + good clock. The ER made a difference that I could hear but it was not in the direction of neutrality. The test I used was to compare the sound quality of streamed music trying that with the different switches and then compared that to local files being played with the ethernet plug pulled out from the back of the Antipodes. The PhoenixNET was the only one to get even close to the same sound as this. I used that method because I have found that even having the Antipodes connected to ethernet impacted on the sound quality when playing local files. Again though, using the PhoenixNET was the only one which to my ears had no impact on the sound quality of local files and allowed me to keep the Antipodes connected to the ethernet full time with no impact on sound quality. This by the way is not an Antipodes ‘thing’ per se. I have friends who set an album playing on their Extreme and then plug the ethernet plug in order to get the best sound quality.


I strongly suspect like with the Phoenix USB Regen, with the PhoenixNET, you get what you pay for.


----------



## Presence

170 hours on the upgraded CX and EX. For whatever reason, had difficulty getting Squeezelite to be recognized as a Player. 90 minutes with Mark Cole finally got it to work.
The treble has not fully opened up yet but the resolution and imaging is quite emotionally engaging. Listening to Led Zep's "Since I've Been Loving You" at 16/44.1, I could hear the timbre of the kick drum pedal smacking the drum head along with the organ bass pedals in the phantom center image as the rest of the drum kit had its own spacing out of phase outside the boundary of the right speaker. I am so far delighted with the upgrade.
I have no doubt about the quality of the PhoenixNet but I'm also very curious about an S60 power supply or perhaps a 1/2-the-cost Ferrum Hypsos hybrid power supply paired with the EtherRegens.
This evening, LMS/Squeezelite does so far sound preferable to Roon Server/Squeezelite or Roon Player.


----------



## kennyb123

Presence said:


> I'm also very curious about an S60 power supply or perhaps a 1/2-the-cost Ferrum Hypsos hybrid power supply paired with the EtherRegens.



The Farad Super3 works wonders with an EtherRegen.  Add a Level 2 DC cable and you'll be in great shape.  That's what I'm doing and I've never felt the itch to take the power supply for the ER any further.  I honestly don't know if the ER would scale further with an even better power supply.  Most people seem more inclined to add additional switches or a reference clock instead.  But maybe your insight is correct and the ER could be competitive with the Phoenix if given a power supply on par with the Sean Jacobs designed supply inside the Phoenix.


----------



## Triode User

Presence said:


> 170 hours on the upgraded CX and EX. For whatever reason, had difficulty getting Squeezelite to be recognized as a Player. 90 minutes with Mark Cole finally got it to work.
> The treble has not fully opened up yet but the resolution and imaging is quite emotionally engaging. Listening to Led Zep's "Since I've Been Loving You" at 16/44.1, I could hear the timbre of the kick drum pedal smacking the drum head along with the organ bass pedals in the phantom center image as the rest of the drum kit had its own spacing out of phase outside the boundary of the right speaker. I am so far delighted with the upgrade.
> I have no doubt about the quality of the PhoenixNet but I'm also very curious about an S60 power supply or perhaps a 1/2-the-cost Ferrum Hypsos hybrid power supply paired with the EtherRegens.
> This evening, LMS/Squeezelite does so far sound preferable to Roon Server/Squeezelite or Roon Player.


The people who had their CX/EX upgraded really do seem to like the upgrade. Having that uprade path is a great way to reward customer loyalty.

I am really itching to be able to get to use the latest LMS/Squeezelite available with AMS3.1 when it is rolled out. I am reconciled to dispensing with Roon’s interface in the interests of better sound especially when the sound quality is so marked between Roon and Squeeze on the K50.


----------



## Triode User

kennyb123 said:


> The Farad Super3 works wonders with an EtherRegen.  Add a Level 2 DC cable and you'll be in great shape.  That's what I'm doing and I've never felt the itch to take the power supply for the ER any further.  I honestly don't know if the ER would scale further with an even better power supply.  Most people seem more inclined to add additional switches or a reference clock instead.  But maybe your insight is correct and the ER could be competitive with the Phoenix if given a power supply on par with the Sean Jacobs designed supply inside the Phoenix.


Kenny, when I had the ER my test was to compare the sound with it in the system and then listen with the ethernet cable pulled from the rear of my K50. Even with a Sean Jacobs DC4 powering the ER, the ER to my ears coloured the sound quite a bit (I think the DC4 is higher up the Sean Jacobs power supply chain than the one in the PhoenixNET). In any case a DC4 plus ER costs far more than a PhoenixNET.

Have you tested your ER against the ‘no network’ test?


----------



## cczero17

Presence said:


> 170 hours on the upgraded CX and EX. For whatever reason, had difficulty getting Squeezelite to be recognized as a Player. 90 minutes with Mark Cole finally got it to work.
> The treble has not fully opened up yet but the resolution and imaging is quite emotionally engaging. Listening to Led Zep's "Since I've Been Loving You" at 16/44.1, I could hear the timbre of the kick drum pedal smacking the drum head along with the organ bass pedals in the phantom center image as the rest of the drum kit had its own spacing out of phase outside the boundary of the right speaker. I am so far delighted with the upgrade.
> I have no doubt about the quality of the PhoenixNet but I'm also very curious about an S60 power supply or perhaps a 1/2-the-cost Ferrum Hypsos hybrid power supply paired with the EtherRegens.
> This evening, LMS/Squeezelite does so far sound preferable to Roon Server/Squeezelite or Roon Player.


I'm having the same issue, I can't get Squeeze within roon to be recognised. I got it to work just the once (not sure how) but it just cycles through looking for the player.


----------



## Clive101

I have given LMS/Squeezelite and found it to be too bright for me so back on Roon/Squeezelite which I prefer...for the moment.
When LMS 3.1 is released I will try again along with MinimServer.


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## Triode User

Clive101 said:


> I have given LMS/Squeezelite and found it to be too bright for me so back on Roon/Squeezelite which I prefer...for the moment.
> When LMS 3.1 is released I will try again along with MinimServer.


 Clive, you are again whetting my appetite to try MinimServer!! 😀 But in the meantime there is no hint of brightness here with LMS/Squeezelite.  The last time I used Roon I found Roon/Squeezelite smeared and muddled the mid / lower mid rather than altering brightness. When AMS3.1 arrives I will however try everything on offer including trying again the Roon options.

Just in passing I think you are using the BNC output from your K50. For the moment I use the usb output from my K50 to a PhoenixUSB connected to a SRC-DX usb to bnc convertor which then connects to my MScaler by a bnc to bnc cable. Don’t ask me how or why but I prefer the sound like that. Try the track ‘Birds’ on this album called Nameless by Dominique Fils-Aimé.


----------



## Clive101

Triode User said:


> Clive, you are again whetting my appetite to try MinimServer!! 😀 But in the meantime there is no hint of brightness here with LMS/Squeezelite.  The last time I used Roon I found Roon/Squeezelite smeared and muddled the mid / lower mid rather than altering brightness. When AMS3.1 arrives I will however try everything on offer including trying again the Roon options.
> 
> Just in passing I think you are using the BNC output from your K50. For the moment I use the usb output from my K50 to a PhoenixUSB connected to a SRC-DX usb to bnc convertor which then connects to my MScaler by a bnc to bnc cable. Don’t ask me how or why but I prefer the sound like that. Try the track ‘Birds’ on this album called Nameless by Dominique Fils-Aimé.



I will try your album thank you for the suggestion.

With a Headphone system. I am connecting via BNC ( Wave cable) as I find USB brighter (Chord Sarum T) K50 to Dave to WA33 EE JPS (Tak and Psvane ACME with the EH gold) to AdezeLCD4.
The amp sounds more SS than Tube and the combo of Tubes with the LCD4 is stellar...so I lean more to a laid back sound but the combo does have an incredible amount of detail. Just a perfect combo that suits me. I have yet to try Mscaler or PGGB.

With a speaker system (which is more transparent) K50 (BNC) SC4 Dave Mscaler Bryston 28B3 PMC SE2 (Wave cables) LMS would be far too bright for me so never tried.
Again with the CX EX combo on the Hifi setup and MinimServer sounded better to me than the Roon/Squezzelite.

I have not experienced smearing...but then again perhaps I cannot hear smearing who knows ?

One thing for sure I know I am very sensitive to digital glare so perhaps prefer smearing if that is what I am experiencing.

What I have noticed is going from a week of headphones to HiFI or vice versa does take me a few hours to get settled back in to the sound (they sound so different) I guess the brain takes a while to resync...?


----------



## atya35mm

Triode User said:


> Clive, you are again whetting my appetite to try MinimServer!! 😀 But in the meantime there is no hint of brightness here with LMS/Squeezelite.  The last time I used Roon I found Roon/Squeezelite smeared and muddled the mid / lower mid rather than altering brightness. When AMS3.1 arrives I will however try everything on offer including trying again the Roon options.
> 
> Just in passing I think you are using the BNC output from your K50. For the moment I use the usb output from my K50 to a PhoenixUSB connected to a SRC-DX usb to bnc convertor which then connects to my MScaler by a bnc to bnc cable. Don’t ask me how or why but I prefer the sound like that. Try the track ‘Birds’ on this album called Nameless by Dominique Fils-Aimé.


Fantastic recommendation! Love the minimalistic vocals at the start of the first track. Literally gave me goosebumps straight away.


----------



## Presence

With LMS/Squeeze [and perhaps additional hours on the CX/EX power supply upgrade] the Domonique Fils-Aimes multiple voices on opening track "Strange Fruit" are much more clearly delineated and spaced without smearing together vs Roon playback.
Also, the deep bass part at 1:50 of "Three Wishes" on  Roger Waters Amused To Death is reproduced without it sounding like there is cone break up or the amp ran out of steam on my system. This was the original motivation to get my Krells running on 240VAC years ago. The bass did tighten up with the amp voltage change on this passage but years later, it's interesting for me to note that the front end accuracy is additionally if not more important.

Also via Roon, Left channel out of phase information was less clearly delineated vs the right channel on my system. It's noticeably clearer now with LMS/Squeezelite [and PS upgrade]. 

Another note:
During troubleshooting to get Squeezelite working with Mark last night [which I suspect had some aspect of luck after 90 minutes], I learned that the GUI view from the previous software is still accessible with the right URL.
The previous manual suggested to delete any installed apps that were not being used as this would improve sound quality.
By reverting to the older V2 GUI, I noticed that the full suite of Apps are installed perhaps to be accessible by the 3.1 GUI on the fly?
I have an inquiry to Mark to see if they can and should be deleted via V2 screen. Will report back.


----------



## Presence

Re: Uninstalling unused apps -Mark replied that they all remain installed and it makes no difference to SQ.


----------



## kennyb123

Triode User said:


> Kenny, when I had the ER my test was to compare the sound with it in the system and then listen with the ethernet cable pulled from the rear of my K50. Even with a Sean Jacobs DC4 powering the ER, the ER to my ears coloured the sound quite a bit (I think the DC4 is higher up the Sean Jacobs power supply chain than the one in the PhoenixNET). In any case a DC4 plus ER costs far more than a PhoenixNET.



Good to know.  Thanks for sharing.  



Triode User said:


> Have you tested your ER against the ‘no network’ test?



Sort of.  I've powered down the opticalModule that's upstream of my ER.  This as close to no network as I've tried.  There's an improvement with network powered down, but it's not possible to say how much the ER itself is contributing to the sound with the network on.


----------



## Triode User

kennyb123 said:


> Good to know.  Thanks for sharing.
> 
> Sort of.  I've powered down the opticalModule that's upstream of my ER.  This as close to no network as I've tried.  There's an improvement with network powered down, but it's not possible to say how much the ER itself is contributing to the sound with the network on.


Good man. I have got to the point with my PhoenixNET that I could not tell any different between ‘no network’ (ie with the ethernet plug pulled from the back of the K50) and having the K50 connected to the network via the PhoenixNET. All other options I tried there were differences.


----------



## kennyb123

Triode User said:


> Good man. I have got to the point with my PhoenixNET that I could not tell any different between ‘no network’ (ie with the ethernet plug pulled from the back of the K50) and having the K50 connected to the network via the PhoenixNET. All other options I tried there were differences.



I can use a smart plug to power down my network using my iPhone.  I do that occasionally when listening to music on the internal SSDs.  

It's good to know that the PhoenixNET is so effective.  Maybe some day I will look to add one.  

I've been enjoying Roon again thanks to the Gustard x26 Pro DAC.   Roon is more convenient to use when I'm working as I can just let it do its thing.  

Highly recommended:


----------



## FlikFlac

I‘ve been investigating server player options on my S40 and found Roon/Squeeze better than just Roon, mpd/bubble UPNP next best, but best of all HQplayer/Roon. Interestingly as I already have an MScaler I started using HQplayer without any upscaling or filters, into the Mscaler and it sounded brilliant. In fact so good, if I had just bought the S60 and got the same uplift, I’d have been happy.

To summarise the improvements, it has contributed greatly to the main areas that I knew would need addressing at some point. First the bass… using stand mounts there has never been a prolific volume of bass, which is fine for me as it’s a small room and I’m not a bass head. However, now the bass has increased but is clear and precise, no booming and importantly, sounds perfectly integrated into the overall sound. I struggle listening to systems where there is a lot bass but it just dominates everything else, I like everything to be balanced and integrated. Second, high end. I have a playlist called Bleeding Ears, every time I play a song that sounds harsh or grates, it goes in the playlist and becomes a test track. I went through the playlist and was amazed at how all of the songs had improved and all sounding much clearer and smoother. Finally, micro dynamics, all those little details that turn the sound into realistic sounding music and improves timbre. Overall, quite astounded at the overall improvement.

I have tried HQ player upscaling in to my TT2 and that too sounded great, but so many options to work through, for now I’m back to no upscaling or filters In to the Mscaler. I’ve read elsewhere that the developer of HQplayer doesn’t see the point of using HQplayer without using its full  capabilities, which I understand, but there is no doubt that in my system it works brilliantly. Perhaps there is a market to purchase a version of HQ Player without upscaling?

I’m still in trial mode as I want to resolve a Roon has lost control error before committing, but even without the upscaling it would be worth the price for the uplift it has provided.

And to think I can still add the S60 for further gains


----------



## kennyb123

FlikFlac said:


> I have tried HQ player upscaling in to my TT2 and that too sounded great, but so many options to work through, for now I’m back to no upscaling or filters In to the Mscaler. I’ve read elsewhere that the developer of HQplayer doesn’t see the point of using HQplayer without using its full capabilities, which I understand, but there is no doubt that in my system it works brilliantly. Perhaps there is a market to purchase a version of HQ Player without upscaling?



Using one of the sinc filters with my TT2 was better to my ears than leaving the first three set to None - but this is without the Mscaler (I sold after getting my K30).  I set these to None when I play music processed with PGGB but sometimes forget to turn them back on when playing music that's not been processed.


----------



## FlikFlac

I’m sure I’ll have a play with variations once I get a baseline, should be fun


----------



## cczero17

kennyb123 said:


> The Farad Super3 works wonders with an EtherRegen.  Add a Level 2 DC cable and you'll be in great shape.  That's what I'm doing and I've never felt the itch to take the power supply for the ER any further.  I honestly don't know if the ER would scale further with an even better power supply.  Most people seem more inclined to add additional switches or a reference clock instead.  But maybe your insight is correct and the ER could be competitive with the Phoenix if given a power supply on par with the Sean Jacobs designed supply inside the Phoenix.


Have the same FARAD here powering an Sotm switch. I found it much better than the sps500. However I went for the copper level 2 DC as the Silver stripped the soul out of the music. I recall


Triode User said:


> Clive, you are again whetting my appetite to try MinimServer!! 😀 But in the meantime there is no hint of brightness here with LMS/Squeezelite.  The last time I used Roon I found Roon/Squeezelite smeared and muddled the mid / lower mid rather than altering brightness. When AMS3.1 arrives I will however try everything on offer including trying again the Roon options.
> 
> Just in passing I think you are using the BNC output from your K50. For the moment I use the usb output from my K50 to a PhoenixUSB connected to a SRC-DX usb to bnc convertor which then connects to my MScaler by a bnc to bnc cable. Don’t ask me how or why but I prefer the sound like that. Try the track ‘Birds’ on this album called Nameless by Dominique Fils-Aimé.


This is a very noob question...what is Lms? If want try Lms/squeeze, what do I need and what do I need to do?

Ta


----------



## Progisus

Roon/Hqplayer, no filters is the least fatiguing combination yet. Any upscaling/filters is taken care of with PGGB.

AMS3.1 - I find it interesting all apps are installed as Antipodes previously stated to install only required apps so as not to degrade sound quality. Is this just a new gui and not a software improvement?


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> AMS3.1 - I find it interesting all apps are installed as Antipodes previously stated to install only required apps so as not to degrade sound quality. Is this just a new gui and not a software improvement?


The video they prepared a while back that showed 3.1 allowed one to easily turn apps on/off.  If they've managed to shut down what's not needed, then sound quality should be ok.  

On AMS 3.0, I can't tell what's actually running on my server.  I can shutdown Roon, but that it's not running isn't displayed on a dashboard.  Same for Squeeze server.  I'd love to be able to shut down what I won't be using.  Will my choices remain after rebooting?  Uninstalling them certainly would accomplish that.  I can do that in AMS 3.0 but I haven't done so as I still have yet to pick a winner ... I put that on hold pending 3.1.  I'm curious what Antipodes will recommend as a best practice.  I have found a slight improvement by shutting down Roon Server when not using it, but I rarely do that.


----------



## Uncle Monty

Following OLADRA upgrade, I'm having to restart Roon on the CX Dashboard nearly every day before Roon can find it as my core - not a biggie but maybe something for a future software update (unless it's just me of course).


----------



## Ciggavelli

I feel like this is a stupid question, but how the hell do you safely eject a portable hard drive without turning the K50 off?  I’ve searched and searched and nothing. If I pull the hdd out and put it back on my pc, I have to scan and potentially repair the hdd because Windows knows I pulled out the hdd out of my K50 without safely ejecting.

Is there any way to safely eject a portable hdd on the K50?


----------



## kennyb123

Ciggavelli said:


> Is there any way to safely eject a portable hdd on the K50?


It's not a stupid question.  Wait for the LED on the drive to stop blinking then say the words "open sesame" and then pull out your drive.

I totally made that up, of course. That's a great question to ask on the Antipodes support forum.


----------



## Triode User

*Roon / Squeezelite* vs *Squeeze / Squeezelite on the K50*

I had said to myself that I was going to wait until AMS 3.1 before revisiting using Roon with my K50 but rules are meant to be broken (and the roll out of 3.1 is taking much linger than anticipated) so this morning I reloaded Roon (I had previously deleted it)  and set it up using Squeeze (Squeezelite) as the Player.

Each time I revisit Roon I am always super impressed by the user interface and sheer sophistication of the app. It is just crazy good. Unfortunately within 30 seconds of pressing play on Roon on the amazing track ‘Birds’ by Dominique Fils-Aimé from her ‘Nameless’ album it was clear that there was something wrong. The wonderful clarity and detail of the plucked double bass notes had disappeared and instead everything had become rather veiled. 

Just to be sure I went to the Opium Moon album of the same name and played ‘When I see You Naked I Smell the Earth’. It was the same effect and the lovely texture of the instruments was smeared and lost.

It was as if the joy and magic had been sucked out of both tracks. 

I have again deleted Roon and have returned to Squeeze for the Server on my K50 and Squeeze aka Squeezelite as the Player. 

My method of connection with the K50 was unchanged and is USB from the K50 to the PhoenixUSB and with that connected to the AudioWise SRC-DX usb to spdif convertor. I take a single bnc to bnc cable to the Mscaler and dual bnc to the ARC6 Dave.

When 3.1 is rolled out I will revisit all the options and that will include all the Roon options such as using HQP just as the player for Roon but for the moment I will leave things as they are.


----------



## frankensmurf (Oct 7, 2021)

kennyb123 said:


> Using one of the sinc filters with my TT2 was better to my ears than leaving the first three set to None - but this is without the Mscaler (I sold after getting my K30).  I set these to None when I play music processed with PGGB but sometimes forget to turn them back on when playing music that's not been processed.





Progisus said:


> Roon/Hqplayer, no filters is the least fatiguing combination yet. Any upscaling/filters is taken care of with PGGB.
> 
> AMS3.1 - I find it interesting all apps are installed as Antipodes previously stated to install only required apps so as not to degrade sound quality. Is this just a new gui and not a software improvement?



Thank you both for these details.. I know a lot of people have very high-end systems. I find it very disconcerting that the underlying player transport / architecture is degrading the sound of my system (even while the sound quality grows by leaps and bounds with power cable upgrades, acoustics improvements, etc.). Despite being employed in the technology world (nominally mind you) I have not yet been able to figure out a working HQ Player arrangement, although if I'm honest I haven't tried that hard. So, that's next on my list.

*PGGB:* I'm very attracted to the idea but I think I've already said here that PGGB was a change absolutely but not a net benefit in my system, which always seems to employ DSD-based DACs with their own elaborate upsampling routine. It's one of the reasons I didn't look very hard at HQPlayer initially, but I definitely take the point of the posters above that perhaps the first good thing HQP is doing is effectively removing RAAT and its widely-reported inferoriority from the chain.

*Roon vs LMS / DLNA / MinimServer / every other UI:* I guess this is where I'm drawing the line. I have crazy acoustic treatments, kilobuck power cables, tape all over my floor, and a pretty high level of general insanity to facilitate the best music playback I can create. But I can not, and do not, and I guess will not, go back to any other UX than Roon for playing music. Squinting at text UIs and organizing file trees and finding which volume of the cantata cycle has the one you're looking for and and and ... not to mention the inclusion of Qobuz and TIDAL which has fundamentally enhanced my music discovery capability .. I can't live without it. So I will get Roon > HQPlayer (no upsampling) working. I salute those of you who are able to go back to the older playback experience in search of sonic perfection but I will not join you. : )


On a few other recent topics:
*streamed 24/192 vs local files (DSD/otherwise): *I think someone pointed out that this is an extremely apples / oranges comparison. You have to compare the same files (at least the 24/192 version of an album MAY be the same mastering between Qobuz streaming and a local download, depending on where you got it) or else you aren't comparing anything. To that end I have done a lot of comparing of this newish album, which is totally enjoyable musically and quite good sonically. Herreweghe is working his way through a cantata cycle with real sensitivity and charisma, aided by lovely vocal performances from the Chapel Royale.





I do prioritize the local version as it has better tonal density and a little less hash in massed choral passages (my ongoing / most challenging test for how well a playback chain sorts things out). However if you were to randomly play me one vs the other I'm not certain I could tell you which one is playing. I would characterize the difference for this track local vs streamed as smaller than many other tweaks including USB cables and power cords.

So I do seek out and purchase DSD or high-rate PCM versions of recordings I want to own, and I do listen to a substantial amount (perhaps half) of streaming. In my system the difference is there if you want to A / B a bunch of times but I tire of that activity very quickly.

*Audiophile switches:*  I too fell victim to the attractive price of entry of the ER, back when I was running the Bridge II (which now takes up space in my box o' tubes) on my PS Audio DirectStream (latest firmware of course).  Plugging it in there with the stock power,  I heard an increase in articulation and an increase in audiophile 'detail' and found it unpleasant.

Many changes later, I prefer the ER (with the Uptone LPS-1 power supply) B side connected to my EX, with a second ER (standard PS) connected to my CX and the rest of the network. In the current system configuration the two ERs add clarity and I haven't noticed a prominent change in voicing with them in. Notably, this configuration sounds better unequivocally than connecting the EX to the CX directly (even with both ERs upstream of the CX). However I have not done the 'unplug the cable' test -- and [..thinks for a moment] I cannot, because all my media is on the CX and the EX is the player (which is of course the point).

*Innuos:* Ah, Innuos. I always thought they were beautiful and expected to buy one. But I also found somethign very sensible about the Antipodes CX/EX approach (2 boxes make sense for 2 tasks) with the bonus of buying one then adding the other. So I did. However, I have a friend with the Innuos Statement > MS > DAVE and it is pretty great (the sound was pretty good until I pointed out he was using the wrong USB port, after it jumped to incredible). I think Innuos' decision to pull the key tech out of that server and sell it separately is a good marketing decision, and good for us. As it happens an industry friend has a Phoenix USB and brought it over. It made a notable if not dramatic improvement to a digital chain already fairly optimized, as follows.
            consumer router > in-wall CAT7 > ER1 > CX (no upgrade), LPS-1/ER2 > AQ Vodka ethernet > EX (no upgrade) > Curious USB > P2 > PS Audio AC12 HDMI > DirectStream (Bridge II long since removed) > BHK Preamp > Focal SM9 studio monitors / JL Audio F112v2. (Various high-end power cables from AQ, Nordost, another great local manufacturer, and the good o'l PS Audio AC12).

I love the utility of the Phoenix USB -- it seems to clean up any USB signal (including that from say a MacBook or something) very nicely, and scales up in performance enough to improve an EX. I can imagine it would improve or perhaps just change the USB performance of a K50... has someone tried that?

Given the performance of the Phoenix USB, and with the valuable insights on this forum, I would try the PhoenixNet too. However I don't see it as an either / or; I will always need gigabit connectivity afaic for the CX, and I will move one of the ERs to use as a normal switch adjacent to my router.

Soo.... with one more purchase it's:  router > ER > maybe another ER + CX > PhoenixNet > EX > Phoenix USB > P2 > DAC. No wonder people think we're crazy.

*CX / EX 'OLADRA' Upgrade (and upgrades in general): * Glad to hear people are hearing good results. I may have already said I'm a little hesitant to spend new retail dollars on upgrading a computer given the depressing depreciation in value as well as compaibility in any computer. Also given my configuration above I still wonder if the CX is "doing" anything besides just.. serving Roon (or even upsampling HQP if, say, I bought a Holo Audio May DAC and wanted to PCM 768/1024). One day I will buy (or more likely borrow) a Roon Nucleus and see what is the difference in SQ when there are two (or three?) audiophile clean-up switches between the core and the renderer.

With that in mind, I find myself inclined to focus my (increasingly stingy) future upgrade dollars on *renderer* not server. As such I think I'm unlikely to splurge on the K series and will do S separates (and probably  spend very nearly the same amount of money by the time I'm done)  starting with S60, then S20, then S30. This is on the assumption that I keep the PS Audio DirectStream (for which HDMI is decidedly the preferred input, and which I am beginning to do the output transformer and external power supply for the analog board upgrades, another kettle of upgrade fish entirely)

*Aren't all of these boxes trying to do the same thing? *
An accomplished reviewer, "raydude", whose human name I don't know, usefully articulates this 'hypothesis for digital optimization' in his audiophilestyle review of the Sean Jacobs DC4 / DAVE review (which my Innuos Statement friend ALSO just got installed; _we all have some friends we hate_..)

*First Law*: Invest in cabling, power, and digital hygiene to do as little harm as possible (directly or indirectly) to the DAC’s clock, ground plane, or reference voltage plane
*Second Law*: Invest in a digital endpoint that moves bit perfect digital data from ethernet to a USB DAC with as little variability and as much timing and signal integrity as possible (aka, as close to precision real time data streaming to DAC as possible)
If I squint for a moment, I would say that all the ethernet boxes and power supplies are trying to address Law 1, and the EX / S30 / P2 et al are trying to address Law 2. Of course in a combined product like the K50 or Innuos Statement these all get mixed together.

The relevant question for me is: Do I get better SQ dividends investing at the end of the chain (in my case upgrading the P2 to an S20 + S60), the middle (upgrading the EX to an S30 + s60), or the beginning (let's say a PhoenixNET)?   (For clarity let's assume away a new DAC, and all the software/protocol stuff [pretend I already figured out Roon > HQP no upsampling])

A corollary of this question: If I do enough cleaning up on the back end, does the clean-up on the front end become less relevant? In other words, if someone finally made the perfect optical/galvanical/unobtainiumal box that cleaned up the USB or HDMI or whatever signal just before the DAC, would all the network and whatever bits be rendered [sic] irrelevant? 
        To answer my own question, of course not. Every product claims to do this (like every DAC with an innovative never-done-before galvanically-isolated USB input which is impervious to any problems in the upstream signal). But all these products (including all the ones I own and all the other ones I've tried) continue to benefit from cables and other improvements made further up the chain. Sigh. It was worth a shot.

*Drive Management in 2.8:* I had this question too...


Ciggavelli said:


> I feel like this is a stupid question, but how the hell do you safely eject a portable hard drive without turning the K50 off?  I’ve searched and searched and nothing. If I pull the hdd out and put it back on my pc, I have to scan and potentially repair the hdd because Windows knows I pulled out the hdd out of my K50 without safely ejecting.
> 
> Is there any way to safely eject a portable hdd on the K50?


Every time I end up unplugging an external HD (in the hopes that there is some last scintilla of sound quality to be had by not having it connected LOL) Roon loses communication with it and the backups will not continue until I restart everything and set up a new backup. That gets annoying.

OK, end of rant(s). If I had time to post more frequently perhaps they would be shorter.
Perhaps.


----------



## Ciggavelli

frankensmurf said:


> I love the utility of the Phoenix USB -- it seems to clean up any USB signal (including that from say a MacBook or something) very nicely, and scales up in performance enough to improve an EX. I can imagine it would improve or perhaps just change the USB performance of a K50... has someone tried that?


I use the PhoenixUSB with my K50, and it does indeed help and sound better.  It's just a great component!


----------



## frankensmurf

Ciggavelli said:


> I use the PhoenixUSB with my K50, and it does indeed help and sound better.  It's just a great component!


Fascinating. 
a) this is a bit unnerving given the price of the K50.    : |
b) this is bit confusing given the implication (if I'm reading correctly between the lines) of Mr. Serinus that the K50 sounds better in his system than the Innuos Statement. Presumably the K50 is doing other things better than the Statement, and Innuos' USB reclocking adds further. (which is what it did in my system)

More important for me: have you compared K50 USB output to its other outputs? These are reported by Serinus (in the case of AES3) and others to sound better. I believe that with resolutions up to 24/192 you could do K50 > single BNC > M-Scaler > ...

Sadly no servers/renderers I'm aware of offer dual-BNC or dual-AES outputs (although we can _perhaps _expect it from the upcoming PS Audio Octave server as they are already offering dual XLR _and_ dual BNC outputs on their latest SACD transport). EDIT: the DCS Bridge does.


----------



## Ciggavelli

frankensmurf said:


> Fascinating.
> a) this is a bit unnerving given the price of the K50.    : |
> b) this is bit confusing given the implication (if I'm reading correctly between the lines) of Mr. Serinus that the K50 sounds better in his system than the Innuos Statement. Presumably the K50 is doing other things better than the Statement, and Innuos' USB reclocking adds further. (which is what it did in my system)
> 
> ...


I'm not really sure why the PhoenixUSB helps, but it does.  It's not a huge difference, but it is noticeable.  Also, I have not used any other output on the K50 except the USB one.  I think some use AES or BNC, but I haven't tried either.  I am happy with the USB output into the PhoneixUSB > M-scaler > DAVE


----------



## Triode User

frankensmurf said:


> More important for me: have you compared K50 USB output to its other outputs? These are reported by Serinus (in the case of AES3) and others to sound better. I believe that with resolutions up to 24/192 you could do K50 > single BNC > M-Scaler > ...


 I have tried the BNC output from the K50 to the Mscaler but for the moment I prefer the K50 USB output > PhoenixUSB > SRC-DX > (via BNC) > MScaler. I will however revisit the K50 BNC output when the newer apps are available with AMS 3.1


----------



## kennyb123

frankensmurf said:


> I guess this is where I'm drawing the line. I have crazy acoustic treatments, kilobuck power cables, tape all over my floor, and a pretty high level of general insanity to facilitate the best music playback I can create. But I can not, and do not, and I guess will not, go back to any other UX than Roon for playing music. Squinting at text UIs and organizing file trees and finding which volume of the cantata cycle has the one you're looking for and and and ... not to mention the inclusion of Qobuz and TIDAL which has fundamentally enhanced my music discovery capability .. I can't live without it. So I will get Roon > HQPlayer (no upsampling) working. I salute those of you who are able to go back to the older playback experience in search of sonic perfection but I will not join you. : )



I love this!  I have tried to maintain this line and others.  I've promised myself, for example, that I will not outgrow my current rack.  That limits the number of additional boxes that I can/will buy.  

Roon can be enjoyable as long as you spend little time listening to the other options.


----------



## Triode User

kennyb123 said:


> Roon can be enjoyable as long as you spend little time listening to the other options.


My brain initially mis read what you posted as being ‘Roon can be enjoyable as long as you spend as little time as possible listening to it.’


----------



## kennyb123

frankensmurf said:


> *PGGB:* I'm very attracted to the idea but I think I've already said here that PGGB was a change absolutely but not a net benefit in my system, which always seems to employ DSD-based DACs with their own elaborate upsampling routine. It's one of the reasons I didn't look very hard at HQPlayer initially, but I definitely take the point of the posters above that perhaps the first good thing HQP is doing is effectively removing RAAT and its widely-reported inferoriority from the chain.





frankensmurf said:


> This is on the assumption that I keep the PS Audio DirectStream



If the DAC chooses to scale what has been provided to it, then all bets are off as far as the benefit of PGGB or HQPlayer.  The DirectStream is one DAC where I'd expect these software solutions to provide little benefit.


----------



## frankensmurf

kennyb123 said:


> I love this!  I have tried to maintain this line and others.  I've promised myself, for example, that I will not outgrow my current rack.  That limits the number of additional boxes that I can/will buy.
> 
> Roon can be enjoyable as long as you spend little time listening to the other options.


Well don't give me too much credit, I've been using SB renderer for a long time (unambiguous benefit) and will eventually get to Roon > HQP, which if I read here correctly gives me very good sound while keeping the Roon control UI.  

FWIW I just texted my rack guy yesterday to add a shelf to my rack... [sheepishly] I bought a transport.


----------



## frankensmurf

kennyb123 said:


> If the DAC chooses to scale what has been provided to it, then all bets are off as far as the benefit of PGGB or HQPlayer.  The DirectStream is one DAC where I'd expect these software solutions to provide little benefit.


The Tambaqui, which I had in the system for some time, is another. I swear I don't have a DSD upsampling design bias, it just happened this way.

As above, I am hoping to use HQP NAA on the EX, (with Roon Core and HQPlayer running on the CX, if I understand things correctly) as a non-oversampling renderer/protocol into the DS.   

Is it blasphemous to ask if HQP can serve as a bit-perfect renderer? I know this is counter to its primary use case.


----------



## Progisus

frankensmurf said:


> The Tambaqui, which I had in the system for some time, is another. I swear I don't have a DSD upsampling design bias, it just happened this way.
> 
> As above, I am hoping to use HQP NAA on the EX, (with Roon Core and HQPlayer running on the CX, if I understand things correctly) as a non-oversampling renderer/protocol into the DS.
> 
> Is it blasphemous to ask if HQP can serve as a bit-perfect renderer? I know this is counter to its primary use case.


Yes it can. I use it this way with Roon on my EX. Set filters to none, vol to 0db, dither (shaper) to none.


----------



## Triode User

Progisus said:


> Yes it can. I use it this way with Roon on my EX. Set filters to none, vol to 0db, dither (shaper) to none.



I have used HQP NAA like that and I want to try it again when we K50 and other K series users get access to the later versions of HQP available with AMS 3.1 (but but not available with 3.0). People say there was a SQ uplift with the more recent versions of HQP even when just using it in ‘pass through‘ mode.


----------



## frankensmurf

Progisus said:


> Yes it can. I use it this way with Roon on my EX. Set filters to none, vol to 0db, dither (shaper) to none.


Thank you! Very helpful.  

I think PS Audio has a "bit perfect test" file somewhere that I might dig up.


----------



## FlikFlac

frankensmurf said:


> The Tambaqui, which I had in the system for some time, is another. I swear I don't have a DSD upsampling design bias, it just happened this way.
> 
> As above, I am hoping to use HQP NAA on the EX, (with Roon Core and HQPlayer running on the CX, if I understand things correctly) as a non-oversampling renderer/protocol into the DS.
> 
> Is it blasphemous to ask if HQP can serve as a bit-perfect renderer? I know this is counter to its primary use case.


Not as far as I’m concerned, this is how I am running it now into an Mscaler and it has totally transformed SQ, beyond what I imagined possible. Tonight was the greatest emotional engagement i have managed to achieve, a bold statement I know, but I am gobsmacked. I want to go back to use cases without HQplayer to confirm the improvement, but I’m nervous I may lose something in the process. Think I’ll just leave it as is for now…


----------



## kennyb123

FlikFlac said:


> I want to go back to use cases without HQplayer to confirm the improvement, but I’m nervous I may lose something in the process. Think I’ll just leave it as is for now…



If you pulled it out, you would not only immediately miss it, you’d be more impressed by how much it helped.


----------



## frankensmurf

FlikFlac said:


> .... Tonight was the greatest emotional engagement i have managed to achieve, a bold statement I know, but I am gobsmacked.


This is my absolute standard for upgrades and changes as well.  

For instance my system "sounds" very very similar if I remove the  BHK preamp. There is even perhaps, arguably (accounts vary), a slightly more clear and crystalline presentation. But soul, or other artifact of humans playing instruments, is lost.  With the preamp in I am unable to get work done, I have more goosebumps, I stay up later. 

I also find -- don't ask me why -- power cables (sadly it's always really expensive ones) can convey emotions really effectively when things are right.  

To get this benefit 'for free' in sw is an extremely attractive proposition.


----------



## Whazzzup

antipodes s20 reclocker versus Phoenix USB reclocker? Any thoughts or too new.


----------



## kennyb123 (Oct 7, 2021)

Whazzzup said:


> antipodes s20 reclocker versus Phoenix USB reclocker? Any thoughts or too new.



They have different aims. 

The S20 takes the asynchronous USB feed and turns it into a precisely clocked synchronous feed (I2S, AES3 or S/PDIF).  There is no USB output.

The PhoenixUSB only has a USB output.  It takes the asynchronous USB feed and regenerates it into a cleaner USB feed.

Now which would be better?  I'm not sure we can make generalizations as there are too many variables.

The s20 isn't an option for me since only USB is capable of to 768 kHz.


----------



## Whazzzup

In my case it would be Phoenix I need usb. However not in a rush to put a 4 g box inbetween, still waiting to see if DX upgrade will happen, thank you for that


----------



## Triode User

Has anyone heard any more about progress with the 3.1 update roll out? I had an email mid september saying it was soon but since then I have not been getting any responses to emails enquiring about it.

A little more customer engagement might go a long way and I have previously suggested a weekly short update on their forum or website would help with customer satisfaction. 

Perhaps it is just me feeling grumpy on a Friday morning. 🤣


----------



## magnuska

Triode User said:


> Has anyone heard any more about progress with the 3.1 update roll out? I had an email mid september saying it was soon but since then I have not been getting any responses to emails enquiring about it.
> 
> A little more customer engagement might go a long way and I have previously suggested a weekly short update on their forum or website would help with customer satisfaction.
> 
> Perhaps it is just me feeling grumpy on a Friday morning. 🤣


No not only you. I sent them a message wich was left unanswered. They must have faced a major hiccup?


----------



## Whazzzup

Yup grumpy. Got a feeling from chip shortages to other issues they got a lot going on at antipodes.  Haven’t heard anything about dx3 upgrades could be slow demand to build a parts order, not concerned in my case, if it happens it happens, if not oh well. Course I’m sure in time all will work out for you all.


----------



## kennyb123

It appears that lockdown was extended in New Zealand.  Let just hope their politicians don’t put Antipodes out of business.  

https://www.voanews.com/a/new-zealand-extends-covid-19-lockdowns/6267098.html


----------



## Clive101

Just ordered a K10....
Has anyone compared a K10 to a normal CD or Bluray ripper ?


----------



## Triode User

Clive101 said:


> Just ordered a K10....
> Has anyone compared a K10 to a normal CD or Bluray ripper ?


No, I would be very interested to learn what you think of it. I have an Innuos Zen on my network in another room and I use that for ripping CDs Then copy them over onto the K50.


----------



## magnuska

https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en/kb/articles/linux-performance-improvements#Whats_happening

A welcome news for us with Linux core


----------



## cczero17

Do us Antipodes owners need to do anything here?


----------



## Whazzzup

Forward it to mark so we will see


----------



## cczero17

Whazzzup said:


> Forward it to mark so we will see


You have forwarded the room/Linux update comments to Mark?


----------



## Whazzzup

Yes, but as antipodes is a roon partner, I’m sure they are aware


----------



## Triode User

cczero17 said:


> You have forwarded the room/Linux update comments to Mark?


A post has been opened on the Antipodes Support Forum.  Hopefully it will get answered there.  Have a look on the Antioodes forum and maybe chip in there.


----------



## cczero17

Triode User said:


> A post has been opened on the Antipodes Support Forum.  Hopefully it will get answered there.  Have a look on the Antioodes forum and maybe chip in there.


Nice one... Thanks for letting me know


----------



## Whazzzup

Well here is a response

You can all relax. We have this under control. As a Roon partner we have known about this change for some time. Our current software suite works perfectly with the new Roon software. Technically, Roon is still doing testing, so we have held our release of the remote upgrade to v3.1 to make sure it encompasses any changes required. We will begin informing you about how to get ready for the upgrade shortly, and describe the full upgrade process. The process involves thousands of files to be deleted, replaced or added, and for a new kernel to be installed, so you will need to put an hour or more aside to complete it. Making sure this works without a hitch for you, and making sure it complies fully with the new Roon software is what we are finalising now.

To avoid having to keep coming back here, we recommend you sign up to our mailing list, so that you can get important notifications like this.

If you are on an earlier version of our software, then we recommend you take the opportunity to update to v3.1 before 3 November.

If you are already on v3.1, you do not need to do anything. You are already running software that has been tested with the new Roon software.


----------



## Whazzzup (Oct 19, 2021)

sooo not sure what us 2.7 owners do..... well here is the response to me.



> Wait until the v3.1 upgrade process is released. We are in final testing and there is plenty of time before 3 Nov. Either get on our mailing list or come back here in a few days time.


As explained above, this will be set out in detail in the next few days. You will have the opportunity to upgrade to v3.1 without your music server needing to leave your system.


----------



## kennyb123

Whazzzup said:


> As explained above, this will be set out in detail in the next few days.



"Next few days" sounds really promising.


----------



## Triode User

kennyb123 said:


> "Next few days" sounds really promising.


Also there seems a clear commitment that the 3.1 roll out will be before 3 November and from what I read on the Antipodes support forum that it will be next week.


----------



## Triode User

I have posted this on the Antipodes Help Forum but worth asking here as well  . . . . .

Usually I keep my K50 powered up 24/7 but last night I put it into standby and then switched it off from the mains. This morning I switched it on at the switch on the rear and pressed the front button as per usual but this time nothing is happening. No bleeps, no lights on the front. I can see a green light inside and on the rear the green light is flashing on the ethernet cable/socket. I have also checked both fuses and they seem OK.

Any ideas for what to try?


----------



## Clive101

Yes I get this a few times. Just power off and on again and should come back....
In the manual there is a way to switch on without the green light showing perhaps this was done by mistake.
After a couple of off on combinations all will be restored


----------



## cczero17 (Oct 21, 2021)

Whazzzup said:


> Well here is a response
> 
> You can all relax. We have this under control. As a Roon partner we have known about this change for some time. Our current software suite works perfectly with the new Roon software. Technically, Roon is still doing testing, so we have held our release of the remote upgrade to v3.1 to make sure it encompasses any changes required. We will begin informing you about how to get ready for the upgrade shortly, and describe the full upgrade process. The process involves thousands of files to be deleted, replaced or added, and for a new kernel to be installed, so you will need to put an hour or more aside to complete it. Making sure this works without a hitch for you, and making sure it complies fully with the new Roon software is what we are finalising now.
> 
> ...


Cool. Bit of a touch that I already have v3.1 then


----------



## Triode User

@Clive101  Thanks. I persevered and magically it came back to life!


----------



## frankensmurf

kennyb123 said:


> I love this!  I have tried to maintain this line and others.  I've promised myself, for example, that I will not outgrow my current rack.  That limits the number of additional boxes that I can/will buy.
> 
> Roon can be enjoyable as long as you spend little time listening to the other options.


Speaking of rack space, sigh, I've just set up my PS Audio SACD Transport. It absolutely spanks my streaming stack on native redbook CD playback, and has opened my ears to the fuss about SACDs.

It also has the ability to play just about any media off a burned disc or USB stick (with extremely basic navigation). I'll report back once I copy some reference highres tracks to a USB stick and compare. Short edit: not every USB stick works, i.e. neither of the two I've tried so far. Anyway PSA are very upfront that this USB-stick listening is Not The Intended Use Case for this transport.  But the SQ on redbook and SACD playback is such that I have to try.


Whazzzup said:


> To avoid having to keep coming back here, we recommend you sign up to our mailing list, so that you can get important notifications like this.


Where do we do this? I can't find it on the Antipodes site. I must say that as an old CX/EX (no upgrade) owner I feel quite adrift with respect to upgrades. The software has always said 'upgrade to X' while I cam cleary told that I cannot upgrade to X. It's not a great end-user experience tbh.


----------



## Whazzzup

Here you go bud

To get on our mailing list go here:

https://antipodes.audio/subscribe/

Or visit our forums to see updates on this topic here:

https://antipodes.support/t/new-roon-update/141


----------



## frankensmurf

Whazzzup said:


> Here you go bud
> 
> To get on our mailing list go here:
> 
> ...


Thanks!


----------



## Clive101 (Oct 20, 2021)

Just thought I would mention since I opened the thread it has been 74 pages and no bad words said.
What a nice bunch Audiophiles you all are  Thank you.


----------



## Triode User

Clive101 said:


> Just thought I would mention since I opened the thread it has been 74 pages and no bad words said.
> What a nice bunch Audiophiles you all are  Thank you.


Hey Clive, Happy Wednesday!
It was inspiration to start the thread!
Nick


----------



## Triode User

regarding the impending and imminent 3.1 update, Antipodes have just posted this which is very informative.

_“With v3.0 and v3.1, there is no Update button. This is because we can push software changes to your music servers overnight. However, there are sometimes large changes that cannot and should not be done that way. The upgrade from v3.0 to v3.1 is one of those changes. We need to change the entire operating system and all of the applications this time. This requires a multi-step process of pushing down a new kernel plus some dependent files, then you will reboot into the new kernel and bring down more files, and then you will reboot into a custom version of the new kernel to bring down a large number of customised files. This takes a long time, and it involves risks - such as a user turning off their music server during the process.

Therefore, while the normal process with v3.0 and v3.1 is that we fix minor bugs and provide you with minor updates in the background, this is not and should not be the case when we are making such a large change as we are with v3.1. For this type of change, the user must be made aware of the process, choose a suitable time to complete the process (such as not during an electrical storm or any other time when a power cut might occur), take simple precautions such as backups, etc.

This is also not the last time we will be doing a large change such as this. There are some things on the horizon that we can already see that are so desirable that we are already working on the next complete change of operating system. But it is not practical to leave this change till then, partly because of the Roon change, but also because getting all Antipodes users to a common software platform makes future changes simpler and faster to develop. For example, one of the reasons the development of the update to v3.1 has taken a massive amount of work is that we needed to build one process to upgrade v3.0 users to v3.1, and another process to upgrade v2.7 users to v3.1, and then merge them into a single process that would cover both cases.

While this update involves making sure that you can run the latest version of Roon on 3 November, that is a very very minor part of what is happening. We endeavour to bring you a range of best-of-breed software. Sometimes a third-party launches an update of their software that has dependencies that require us to make a change to the operating system, not just an application update. Often we can accommodate that simply. But around every 5 years the adjustments to the operating system accumulate to the point where performance and stability demand a complete refresh of the operating system. This upgrade to v3.1 is one of those times.”_


----------



## kennyb123

frankensmurf said:


> Speaking of rack space, sigh, I've just set up my PS Audio SACD Transport. It absolutely spanks my streaming stack on native redbook CD playback, and has opened my ears to the fuss about SACDs.
> 
> It also has the ability to play just about any media off a burned disc or USB stick (with extremely basic navigation). I'll report back once I copy some reference highres tracks to a USB stick and compare. Short edit: not every USB stick works, i.e. neither of the two I've tried so far. Anyway PSA are very upfront that this USB-stick listening is Not The Intended Use Case for this transport.  But the SQ on redbook and SACD playback is such that I have to try.


That sounds like a great addition.  

Speaking of rack space as well, a new addition last night had me thinking I might need to add another shelf but fortunately I was able to get things onto a single shelf.

What you see on the shelf beneath my K30 is a Gustard x26 Pro DAC and a Gustard C18 master clock.  The x26 Pro replaced my Chord TT2 a few weeks ago.  It was a pretty big step up (when scaling with either PGGB or HQPlayer with the DAC running in NOS mode).

I was so impressed with the bang for the buck with the x26 Pro that I ordered their C18 master clock.  That’s the smaller box sitting on top.  This arrived yesterday as did a Purple fuse for the x26 Pro.

What a tremendous all around upgrade from the TT2 powered by a Farad Super3.


----------



## Triode User

More news on the 3.1 upgrade. Take a look at the Upgrade page on the Antipodes site to get specific and detailed info on the upgrade. They are saying code will be completed this week and the roll out will commence early next week. 😀

https://antipodes.audio/amsv3-1-upgrade/


----------



## Whazzzup

Still from those old computer days, updating OS always makes me nervous, good luck to us all….


----------



## frankensmurf

kennyb123 said:


> That sounds like a great addition.
> 
> Speaking of rack space as well, a new addition last night had me thinking I might need to add another shelf but fortunately I was able to get things onto a single shelf.
> 
> ...


Congratulations. Immediate Additional Upgrades are either a sign of weakness or strength in a product, clearly here the latter. I have never heard any Gustard product sadly. And the TT2 is no slouch. Have you heard a Sean Jacobs DC4-powered DAVE?


----------



## frankensmurf

Triode User said:


> More news on the 3.1 upgrade. Take a look at the Upgrade page on the Antipodes site to get specific and detailed info on the upgrade. They are saying code will be completed this week and the roll out will commence early next week. 😀
> 
> https://antipodes.audio/amsv3-1-upgrade/


Thanks for the updates. And yes, this is a big to-do for us but it is absolutely nonsensical to expect any OS to continue for years and years without 'overhaul' upgrades like this. I hope they are able to get the beta testing done largely by them and not by us. : D But anyway, I (vaguely) appreciate the amount of work going into this and will wait my turn. (Also I *still* haven't gotten HQP set up as a bit-perfect Roon output; I will definitely wait as it looks a lot simpler in 3.1)

Meanwhile, not sure if people here know about this, PS Audio is *still* working on the release of their totally ground-up music server and software. I am reminded of it since I am very impressed indeed by the SQ of the PST transport I've just been getting to know, and the Octave server is slated to have the same output stage guts (galvanic isolation between transport / computer bits and the digital output stage, separate power supplies etc). The stated goal is to sound better than Roon while maintaining a GUI UX. AFAIK Roon compatibility is 'if you must' and I'm sure HQP compatibility is 'TBD'.


----------



## kennyb123 (Oct 21, 2021)

frankensmurf said:


> And the TT2 is no slouch. Have you heard a Sean Jacobs DC4-powered DAVE?


I have heard at most a DC3-powered DAVE in a friend's system.  It had been on my list as my next step after my TT2.


----------



## Triode User

frankensmurf said:


> Thanks for the updates. And yes, this is a big to-do for us but it is absolutely nonsensical to expect any OS to continue for years and years without 'overhaul' upgrades like this. I hope they are able to get the beta testing done largely by them and not by us. : D But anyway, I (vaguely) appreciate the amount of work going into this and will wait my turn. (Also I *still* haven't gotten HQP set up as a bit-perfect Roon output; I will definitely wait as it looks a lot simpler in 3.1)
> 
> Meanwhile, not sure if people here know about this, PS Audio is *still* working on the release of their totally ground-up music server and software. I am reminded of it since I am very impressed indeed by the SQ of the PST transport I've just been getting to know, and the Octave server is slated to have the same output stage guts (galvanic isolation between transport / computer bits and the digital output stage, separate power supplies etc). The stated goal is to sound better than Roon while maintaining a GUI UX. AFAIK Roon compatibility is 'if you must' and I'm sure HQP compatibility is 'TBD'.


It will be interesting to see how many bugs there are in 3.1. I have not heard any mention of it being out for beta testing outside the company but in any case we all know that there is no such thing as a bug free major software update no matter how much beta testing is done.

What you say about PS Audio and their goal is also interesting. Having used the new Innuos software for some time now in a different system I can appreciate how difficult it must be to get a Roon like feel but without the sound quality negative aspects.


----------



## frankensmurf

Triode User said:


> It will be interesting to see how many bugs there are in 3.1. I have not heard any mention of it being out for beta testing outside the company but in any case we all know that there is no such thing as a bug free major software update no matter how much beta testing is done.
> 
> What you say about PS Audio and their goal is also interesting. Having used the new Innuos software for some time now in a different system I can appreciate how difficult it must be to get a Roon like feel but without the sound quality negative aspects.


Roon has I think inspired a number of less-ambitious alternatives: Innuos seems one of the better polished entries, dCS have their, Auralic has something.. watch this space. Roon isn't standing still either.


----------



## Triode User

frankensmurf said:


> Roon has I think inspired a number of less-ambitious alternatives: Innuos seems one of the better polished entries, dCS have their, Auralic has something.. watch this space. Roon isn't standing still either.


Well I have a lifetime subscription so it would be nice if they ever get to a position of less harm to the sound quality but I doubt that is high on their agenda.

The Innuos app is pretty good from a user interface point of view but in back to back comparison with an iPeng driven Innuos it seemed to me that there was some penalty for the better Innuos interface. However it was not as great (by a long long way) as the Roon sound penalty.


----------



## Progisus

A lot of that roon sound penalty can be mitigated by using HQPlayer with roon but in bit perfect mode.


----------



## Triode User

Progisus said:


> A lot of that roon sound penalty can be mitigated by using HQPlayer with roon but in bit perfect mode.


 Is the ‘bit perfect mode’ you mention a setting in Roon? Or are you meaning setting HQP to non upsampling ‘pass through’ settings?


----------



## frankensmurf

Progisus said:


> A lot of that roon sound penalty can be mitigated by using HQPlayer with roon but in bit perfect mode.


Yes, agreed this is the  best of both worlds, I'm all over this as soon as 3.1 drops.


----------



## kennyb123

frankensmurf said:


> Yes, agreed this is the  best of both worlds, I'm all over this as soon as 3.1 drops.


I’m eager to hear if there is a sound quality improvement from the latest version HQPlayer.  Come to think of it, the new OS could end up bringing sound quality improvement.  It’ll be interesting to see what people report.


----------



## richardloh (Oct 24, 2021)

Hi,

Any worth in messing with Roon and/or HQ Player for the uninitiated ?

Started 2 yrs ago with Squeezelite and free Android Squeezer app until today being subscribed to Qobuz.

Search fine for any track with more than adequate GUI via Squeezer including across 2x 4TB SSDs, 2X 10TB NAS, Qobuz etc. and also read Squeezelite often sounds fine w.r.t. sound quality ?

Btw, nothing eventful with SW version 3.1 of oladra upgraded cx and ex stack in last 8 weeks.

Cheers.

Richard


----------



## Progisus

Triode User said:


> Is the ‘bit perfect mode’ you mention a setting in Roon? Or are you meaning setting HQP to non upsampling ‘pass through’ settings?


Sorry not too clear…. I meant setting HQPlayer to non upsampling pass through.


----------



## Triode User

Progisus said:


> Sorry not too clear…. I meant setting HQPlayer to non upsampling pass through.


No problem. I had in mind to revisit that option when I have the Antipodes 3.1 upgrade and therefore have access to the latest HQP.


----------



## Triode User

richardloh said:


> Btw, nothing eventful with SW version 3.1 of oladra upgraded cx and ex stack in last 8 weeks.


That is good news.


----------



## cczero17

Progisus said:


> Sorry not too clear…. I meant setting HQPlayer to non upsampling pass through.


Strange. I didn't find that at all. After having had time to properly get my ears around the upgraded units, using hqp filters still sound better than none at all


----------



## Triode User

cczero17 said:


> Strange. I didn't find that at all. After having had time to properly get my ears around the upgraded units, using hqp filters still sound better than none at all



Some of us use HQP on pass through just as a player for instance to play pggb files or to play non upsampled files to the Mscaler.


----------



## FlikFlac

Progisus said:


> Sorry not too clear…. I meant setting HQPlayer to non upsampling pass through.


I’m running this at the moment and of all the options and combinations within the Antipodes, this is the one I prefer, by some margin. The unsampled HQP output is fed into an Mscaler and on to a TT2.

I am in trial mode for HQP as I am waiting for 3.1 so I can try the latest version and compare with the latest version of the alternative options before buying a licence (or not).


----------



## FlikFlac

I might also embark on an Mscaler vs HQP investigation, but that’s for another day…


----------



## cczero17

Triode User said:


> Some of us use HQP on pass through just as a player for instance to play pggb files or to play non upsampled files to the Mscaler.


I was under the impression that Hqplayer was as good a alternative to mscaler just software based. I know some have sold their mscaler based on the performance of hqp.


----------



## Triode User

cczero17 said:


> I was under the impression that Hqplayer was as good a alternative to mscaler just software based. I know some have sold their mscaler based on the performance of hqp.



I am not one of those. I prefer Mscaler.


----------



## kennyb123

cczero17 said:


> I was under the impression that Hqplayer was as good a alternative to mscaler just software based. I know some have sold their mscaler based on the performance of hqp.



I sold my M-scaler, but it wasn’t because HQPlayer was better.  To my ears the M-scaler was better, but I found that putting the proceeds from selling it into buying my K30 delivered a lot more.  PGGB is a lot better than both M-scaler and HQPlayer so there was also that.


----------



## cczero17

kennyb123 said:


> I sold my M-scaler, but it wasn’t because HQPlayer was better.  To my ears the M-scaler was better, but I found that putting the proceeds from selling it into buying my K30 delivered a lot more.  PGGB is a lot better than both M-scaler and HQPlayer so there was also that.


Hey...I think my point is, why use Hqplayer and Mscaler when they effectively do the same thing?


----------



## atya35mm

hello all, discovered this album and excited to share with you all antipodes crowd. The simple combination of female vocals and bass piano notes gets to me this one. I was also using the second track (saviour) as test track as I was contemplating of potentially letting go of S20/S60, Mscaler and Wave storm cables , and settled instead of K30 USB direct to Dave with HQP (sinc M, LNS15 as dither). The savings could potentially net me an Eames lounge chair for listening and more.  

But just using that one test track makes me value what those components does to my setup that letting go is NOT an option. I’m not sure whether it’s HQP or just USB implementation of Dave, but k30 direct to Dave with HQP, on the ’saviour’ track, the piano bass notes just sounded too rounded off, all the textural information I got from Mscaler was missing. The female vocals also seem to have a digital edge which grates on me. Oh well, no eames lounge chair for me. 

https://i.imgur.com/t2YdyyV.png


----------



## Triode User

cczero17 said:


> Hey...I think my point is, why use Hqplayer and Mscaler when they effectively do the same thing?


One would have to listen and decide. I decided that to my ears they do not do the same thing. Some might say they prefer the sound of HQP but I have so far preferred the Mscaler. I admit though that until I get AMS 3.1 I do not have access to the latest version of HQP so I am really looking forward to revisiting HQP vs Mscaler.


----------



## andrewd01

kennyb123 said:


> I sold my M-scaler, but it wasn’t because HQPlayer was better.  To my ears the M-scaler was better, but I found that putting the proceeds from selling it into buying my K30 delivered a lot more.  PGGB is a lot better than both M-scaler and HQPlayer so there was also that.



I skipped the intermediate step of buying the M scaler.  I demoed it at a dealer and liked what it did. Whilst saving the coin for the HMS I read reviews from users who were achieving similar results using a good server and HQP, to the point that they were selling their HMS.
I decide to spend my HMS money on an EX and HQP and liked what it did.  It reminded me a lot of what the in store HMS demo did, but obviously not a fair comparison.  I also like having a clean installation without the clutter of too many additional boxes, cables and power supplies.

One day I would like to try an HMS properly but the used prices are ridiculously high, around 80% of the new price.  Perhaps I will revisit when HMS2 comes out and used prices drop for HMS1.

One benefit of the very shot life cycle of antipodes servers is you can buy last years state of the art for 50% of the original retail price from a dealer with warranty.  The previous owners kindly do the ‘burn-in‘ for you.  Bring on the K100


----------



## richardloh

andrewd01 said:


> One benefit of the very shot life cycle of antipodes servers is you can buy last years state of the art for 50% of the original retail price from a dealer with warranty.  The previous owners kindly do the ‘burn-in‘ for you.  Bring on the K100



And newest  n greatest cost almost another 50% more ... bring on the K100 😂


----------



## richardloh (Oct 26, 2021)

Perhaps already known to many here but just in case .... I just found this free hires 16bit 96khz internet station with 4 streaming url of different genres that are not bad sounding at all ... being absolutely free ! 🥳🥳

Yes, I am not only cheap but also lazy to search for my music and just let someone else does it 😂

https://www.superstereoradiochile.com/


----------



## richardloh

richardloh said:


> Hi,
> 
> Any worth in messing with Roon and/or HQ Player for the uninitiated ?
> 
> ...



Hi,

Surprised with all these discussion on Roon and HQP but no articulation on what benefits they bring to the table for noobs like me on basic squeezelite and Squeezer android app for control ??

Cheers.


----------



## FlikFlac

richardloh said:


> Hi,
> 
> Surprised with all these discussion on Roon and HQP but no articulation on what benefits they bring to the table for noobs like me on basic squeezelite and Squeezer android app for control ??
> 
> Cheers.


I posted some thoughts in #1054…


----------



## Whazzzup

So no word on 3.1 getting to the final haka?


----------



## Triode User

Whazzzup said:


> So no word on 3.1 getting to the final haka?


No word that I have seen.

I have just now asked the 'when' question on the Antipodes forum because I would have thought they would be wise not to do such a big update near to a weekend because there must be a high chance of owners needing technical support from Antipodes during the update.


----------



## cczero17

atya35mm said:


> hello all, discovered this album and excited to share with you all antipodes crowd. The simple combination of female vocals and bass piano notes gets to me this one. I was also using the second track (saviour) as test track as I was contemplating of potentially letting go of S20/S60, Mscaler and Wave storm cables , and settled instead of K30 USB direct to Dave with HQP (sinc M, LNS15 as dither). The savings could potentially net me an Eames lounge chair for listening and more.
> 
> But just using that one test track makes me value what those components does to my setup that letting go is NOT an option. I’m not sure whether it’s HQP or just USB implementation of Dave, but k30 direct to Dave with HQP, on the ’saviour’ track, the piano bass notes just sounded too rounded off, all the textural information I got from Mscaler was missing. The female vocals also seem to have a digital edge which grates on me. Oh well, no eames lounge chair for me.
> 
> https://i.imgur.com/t2YdyyV.png


Before the OLADRA upgrade, I was using the same HQP settings as you, however I'm much preferring Poly Sinc Short MP now. 

I have point out that I don't use Chord DACs though. I use Aqua La Scala Optologic MkII


----------



## kennyb123

Triode User said:


> I have just now asked the 'when' question on the Antipodes forum because I would have thought they would be wise not to do such a big update near to a weekend because there must be a high chance of owners needing technical support from Antipodes during the update.


Yes always best to launch early in the week.

Kinda bummed this looks to be slipping into November.


----------



## Triode User

kennyb123 said:


> Yes always best to launch early in the week.
> 
> Kinda bummed this looks to be slipping into November.


It is the start of the working day now in NZ so hopefully we will hear more news as their day progresses.


----------



## Ciggavelli

I have about 10.5tb of music on my K50. It’s starting to get slow and occasionally turns off, where I need to reset. I have 14tb of ssds in the K50, so it’s not completely full.

I’m not sure what the issue is, but I think I need to do a 1:1 call with them. Or, hope that 3.1 fixes the issue.

Also, I’ve never been able to use the main “My Antipodes” link, I have to use the secondary one. It’s not an issue, but it’s kinda weird.

I do leave my K50 on all day. Perhaps I should put it in standby over night?


----------



## kennyb123 (Oct 28, 2021)

Ciggavelli said:


> I have about 10.5tb of music on my K50. It’s starting to get slow and occasionally turns off, where I need to reset. I have 14tb of ssds in the K50, so it’s not completely full.
> 
> I’m not sure what the issue is, but I think I need to do a 1:1 call with them. Or, hope that 3.1 fixes the issue.
> 
> ...



Leaving it on is always best.  It sounds to me like you may have a hardware issue like maybe a failing drive.  I recommend setting up a service call.  And be sure to back up your music.


----------



## td19

Ciggavelli said:


> .....
> 
> Also, I’ve never been able to use the main “My Antipodes” link, I have to use the secondary one. It’s not an issue, but it’s kinda weird.


This may vary by country, ISP, etc. but I found that disabling IPv6 in my Vodafone router fixed this problem.

It may be fixed in 3.1, possibly?


----------



## richardloh

Triode User said:


> That is good news.


Not sure if due to new setup of having ER with AD clock between ex and cx  or ER Chinese clock with ER before ex facing intermittent disconnect to ER but had to restart squeezelite every few days of my 24/7 connection which was not previously experienced.  🤞🤞


----------



## Triode User

Mark Cole responded to my query on the Antipodes forum asking about the intended date for the 3.1 update saying,

”_@NickBacon__ tonight or tomorrow nite timezone depending.

The software upgrade to v3.1 is now live. Leave your music server on and it will receive the upgrade tool at 3.30am tonight or tomorrow night, your time, depending on your location. When you open the GUI or Dashboard from My Antipodes, the upgrade tool will open and you have the choice to begin the upgrade or skip it to do it later._”

It is 6am here now (I always get up early for some reason!) but nothing yet so I guess maybe tomorrow for me.


----------



## atya35mm

Triode User said:


> Mark Cole responded to my query on the Antipodes forum asking about the intended date for the 3.1 update saying,
> 
> ”_@NickBacon__ tonight or tomorrow nite timezone depending.
> 
> ...


time to brush up on how to use minimserver etc


----------



## Whazzzup

14 terra bites! Yikes that’s a ton of music. I’m like 225 gig


----------



## Progisus

Nothing here in Canada Central Time Zone.


----------



## Whazzzup

Not being a downer but why do I think I’ll be one of those who has to call (forum) on oct 31 saying turned on my antipodes software manager and nothing. But we shall see


----------



## Triode User

Progisus said:


> Nothing here in Canada Central Time Zone.


Earlier today I pretended to be in Los Angeles by virtue of time zone trickery settings on my K50 and the 3.1 upgrade became available. All now installed quite seamlessly. There is a fair bit of activity on the Antipodes own help forum if anyone is having issues.


----------



## Clive101 (Oct 29, 2021)

*URGENT.
When you update to 3.1.
Within Roon switch the analysis in the library off, it is switched on by default and your server will over heat if you have a large music folder and it is switch on.*


----------



## andrewd01

Whazzzup said:


> 14 terra bites! Yikes that’s a ton of music. I’m like 225 gig


 I have about a yottabyte of music…..on Tidal.
My local library is 150Gb which I hardly ever listen to because I have heard it all too many times before.  I curse and swear every time I have to move that 150Gb around.  It is always a major faff getting the files organised (maybe because I still use a stone age Mac).


----------



## atya35mm

Just checked and it's still 3.0 for me. It's now 10.36am aussie time. Oh well, will give it another day.


----------



## Ciggavelli

andrewd01 said:


> I have about a yottabyte of music…..on Tidal.
> My local library is 150Gb which I hardly ever listen to because I have heard it all too many times before.  I curse and swear every time I have to move that 150Gb around.  It is always a major faff getting the files organised (maybe because I still use a stone age Mac).


Streaming 24/96, never mind 24/192, doesn’t always work smoothly for me, so I get the actual file and listen to it that way (part of the reason why I need so much SSD space on my server). Also, I think local files sound better than streamed. I know some people get the InnuosPhoenix Ethernet switch and say it sounds the same as a local file, but I haven’t had a chance to try it.


----------



## kennyb123

Ciggavelli said:


> Streaming 24/96, never mind 24/192, doesn’t always work smoothly for me, so I get the actual file and listen to it that way (part of the reason why I need so much SSD space on my server). Also, I think local files sound better than streamed. I know some people get the InnuosPhoenix Ethernet switch and say it sounds the same as a local file, but I haven’t had a chance to try it.


Streaming 24/192 from Qobuz should go smoothly.  Where do you suspect the bottleneck to be?

As far as the PhoenixNET, I suspect that this is probably the best solution out there.  Over the last few days though I finally got to hear for myself how much a 10 MHz reference clock can improve the EtherRegen.  I picked up a used REF10 this week mostly to see how much it would improve my Gustard x26pro DAC.  It has both 50 and 75 ohm outputs so it's also able to provide a reference clock to my ER.  Oh my what an improvement.  What I hear from Qobuz via Roon/HQPlayer easily surpasses the sound quality I heard from local files prior to adding the clock.  I can't say if what I'm hearing comes close the PhoenixNET, but I feel no need to find out.  I also can't say yet if streaming matches local file playback.  I'll eventually get around to assessing that.


----------



## Ciggavelli

kennyb123 said:


> Streaming 24/192 from Qobuz should go smoothly.  Where do you suspect the bottleneck to be?
> 
> As far as the PhoenixNET, I suspect that this is probably the best solution out there.  Over the last few days though I finally got to hear for myself how much a 10 MHz reference clock can improve the EtherRegen.  I picked up a used REF10 this week mostly to see how much it would improve my Gustard x26pro DAC.  It has both 50 and 75 ohm outputs so it's also able to provide a reference clock to my ER.  Oh my what an improvement.  What I hear from Qobuz via Roon/HQPlayer easily surpasses the sound quality I heard from local files prior to adding the clock.  I can't say if what I'm hearing comes close the PhoenixNET, but I feel no need to find out.  I also can't say yet if streaming matches local file playback.  I'll eventually get around to assessing that.


It’s my ISP. They are the only option around and the are terrible


----------



## kennyb123

Ciggavelli said:


> It’s my ISP. They are the only option around and the are terrible


Sorry to hear that.


----------



## Triode User

kennyb123 said:


> Streaming 24/192 from Qobuz should go smoothly.  Where do you suspect the bottleneck to be?
> 
> As far as the PhoenixNET, I suspect that this is probably the best solution out there.  Over the last few days though I finally got to hear for myself how much a 10 MHz reference clock can improve the EtherRegen.  I picked up a used REF10 this week mostly to see how much it would improve my Gustard x26pro DAC.  It has both 50 and 75 ohm outputs so it's also able to provide a reference clock to my ER.  Oh my what an improvement.  What I hear from Qobuz via Roon/HQPlayer easily surpasses the sound quality I heard from local files prior to adding the clock.  I can't say if what I'm hearing comes close the PhoenixNET, but I feel no need to find out.  I also can't say yet if streaming matches local file playback.  I'll eventually get around to assessing that.


I think I have mentioned before that when I was deciding what to do with my ethernet network I played local files and compared devices such as the ER and PhoenixNET to how the file sounded having pulled the Ethernet plug from my K50. The PhoenixNET was the only option that sounded as good as not having the K50 connected at all to my ethernet LAN.


----------



## Triode User

@kennyb123  are you on 3.1 yet?


----------



## andrewd01

I think it is generally accepted that local files sound better than streamed, but for me the difference is not big enough to offset the convenience of having access to a squillion albums without having to manage all of the files.  

The Phoenix NET does look like an interesting product which I would like to try one day.  I suspect the best way to install it for me would be between the CX and EX.


----------



## kennyb123

Triode User said:


> @kennyb123  are you on 3.1 yet?


Not yet


----------



## kennyb123

Triode User said:


> I think I have mentioned before that when I was deciding what to do with my ethernet network I played local files and compared devices such as the ER and PhoenixNET to how the file sounded having pulled the Ethernet plug from my K50. The PhoenixNET was the only option that sounded as good as not having the K50 connected at all to my ethernet LAN.


Yes you did mention that.  I recall you powering the ER with an excellent power supply but I didn’t think I recalled you using an external reference clock.  I was therefore wondering how much the gap between them would be narrowed if using one along with an excellent power supply.


----------



## Progisus

Day 2 and no upgrade available for ver 2.8. HQPlayer did update today by the usual upgrade procedure so I am able to stay current at least. If anyone here has upgraded have they noticed any sound improvement?


----------



## Clive101

Any views on MinimServer SQ, just been flicking through a few tracks and it does sound better than Roon IMO...?

With the new 3.1 update in general I think the SQ has lifted or is it me ?

Also any one upgrading a Chord DAC try this link you get a 100 percent buy back of original cost.

https://www.fanthorpes.co.uk/chord-...il&utm_term=0_b794963e51-387af17ebb-433850989


----------



## Triode User

Clive101 said:


> Any views on MinimServer SQ, just been flicking through a few tracks and it does sound better than Roon IMO...?
> 
> With the new 3.1 update in general I think the SQ has lifted or is it me ?
> 
> ...


I have mainly used Squeeze server and Squeezelite player so far with 3.1. I was actually wondering myself whether it was sounding better than with 3.0 (which of course had quite old versions of  Squeeze/Squeezelite). My inclination was that I thought that the Squeeze/Squeezelite option does sound better than it did with 3.0 but if it does that might be totally down to the newer versions of the apps unless anyone had heard that 3.1 is meant to help from a sound quality point of view.

As to your question about Minimserver vs Roon I have not yet tried Minimserver on the K50. Please can you remind me again, what player does one use with it? And where and with what is the file selction done?

I have had a bit of a play using Roon/HQP + NAA with HQP on ‘pass through’ mode with no upsampling just to make sure it all works but I will leave giving it a good listen until I get a new HQP key from Jussi because having HQP stop after 30 mins is a bit distracting. When I get the new key I will also try HQP + NAA on its own (again no upsampling) to see how that sounds.


----------



## Clive101

Triode User said:


> I have mainly used Squeeze server and Squeezelite player so far with 3.1. I was actually wondering myself whether it was sounding better than with 3.0 (which of course had quite old versions of  Squeeze/Squeezelite). My inclination was that I thought that the Squeeze/Squeezelite option does sound better than it did with 3.0 but if it does that might be totally down to the newer versions of the apps unless anyone had heard that 3.1 is meant to help from a sound quality point of view.
> 
> As to your question about Minimserver vs Roon I have not yet tried Minimserver on the K50. Please can you remind me again, what player does one use with it? And where and with what is the file selction done?
> 
> I have had a bit of a play using Roon/HQP + NAA with HQP on ‘pass through’ mode with no upsampling just to make sure it all works but I will leave giving it a good listen until I get a new HQP key from Jussi because having HQP stop after 30 mins is a bit distracting. When I get the new key I will also try HQP + NAA on its own (again no upsampling) to see how that sounds.


Select MPD as the player and make sure MinimServer is running on the Server. You select the files buy using an app in my case BubbleUPnP, within the app you need to select the devices for example the player and the server in libraries.
You have to set up Qubuz in settings... cloud... Qubuz...account details. Play Qubuz in cloud library.
Hope that helps


----------



## Whazzzup

Nothing for TT, ah well Canada anyway


----------



## Presence (Oct 30, 2021)

Triode User said:


> I think I have mentioned before that when I was deciding what to do with my ethernet network I played local files and compared devices such as the ER and PhoenixNET to how the file sounded having pulled the Ethernet plug from my K50. The PhoenixNET was the only option that sounded as good as not having the K50 connected at all to my ethernet LAN.


*kennyb123*:
"Yes you did mention that. I recall you powering the ER with an excellent power supply but I didn’t think I recalled you using an external reference clock. I was therefore wondering how much the gap between them would be narrowed if using one along with an excellent power supply."

*Presence*:
I use the Mutec Ref10 SE120 10Mhz clock for my two EtherRegens paired with two home-made oversized low-noise LPSs.
I'm awaiting an S60 to try with the EtherRegens and will report back in two weeks with the outcome....
Bear in mind my upgrade path of more black boxes associated with mounting cumulative costs...
Perhaps the end result might afford someone else a better vantage point for their product/$$$ decision making...
Had the PhoenixNet been available at the time of purchase of the EtherRegens, I'm sure this would have been an excellent choice.

Context -
With the CX/EX PS factory upgrades, I immediately noticed upon initial power up the distinct level of lower noise, space and depth improvement. I asked Mark Cole about the degree of improvements to be attributed to 3.1 vs the PS upgrade and his reply was SQ improvements are attributable for the most part to the new PS.
Getting into the weeds here but I did some experiments changing the EtherRegen LPS toroids from 100W to 500W and even 1KW to hear any effect that lowering the impedance would do to sound quality/speed and found it to be inconsequential. I used the Belleson regulator and LPS design on their website for the PS design along with low-noise soft recovery diodes for the rectifiers.


----------



## Triode User

Presence said:


> With the CX/EX PS factory upgrades, I immediately noticed upon initial power up the distinct level of lower noise, space and depth improvement. I asked Mark Cole about the degree of improvements to be attributed to 3.1 vs the PS upgrade and his reply was SQ improvements are attributable for the most part to the new PS.


I know this was not the main part of your post but just to say my initial reaction having done the 3.0 to 3.1 upgrade on my K50 is that there has been a SQ improvement due to 3.1 or possibly due to the more recent apps included with it. This is using Squeeze and Squeezelite.


----------



## Presence (Oct 30, 2021)

Triode User said:


> I know this was not the main part of your post but just to say my initial reaction having done the 3.0 to 3.1 upgrade on my K50 is that there has been a SQ improvement due to 3.1 or possibly due to the more recent apps included with it. This is using Squeeze and Squeezelite.


Got it.
I felt there was a SQ improvement from 2.7 to 2.8 [if I have my versions correct] with Roon but not near the degree from the factory upgrade.
I was told about a year ago by the US Repair guy that a factory-provided Linux upgrade was in the plans and that it would have a SQ improvement.
I brought that up in the same conversation to Mark but that was not addressed in his response. Never found out if a Linux update occurred going from 2.8 to 3.1 for the CX/EX


----------



## kennyb123

Presence said:


> I use the Mutec Ref10 SE120 10Mhz clock for my two EtherRegens paired with two home-made oversized low-noise LPSs.


Nice!


----------



## kennyb123

Still no update presented to me - but likely my fault.


----------



## Progisus

I’ve booked a 1 on 1 for tomorrow evening. I think the plan is to impregnate my EX with the upgrade embryo.


----------



## atya35mm

For anyone still online, Mark Cole is currently having a 5 hour window to manually push the update. I shot the email to him and within 10 seconds he's in my PC doing updates.


----------



## Ciggavelli

So, I did the update, but Squeezelite is still the old version, meaning I can only do 192 and not 384 or higher.  Also, I no longer see how I can add additional software like the 3.0 version


----------



## Triode User

Ciggavelli said:


> So, I did the update, but Squeezelite is still the old version, meaning I can only do 192 and not 384 or higher.  Also, I no longer see how I can add additional software like the 3.0 version


Which squeezelite version do you have with 3.1?

I have 1.8.7 with 3.1 which is not the latest version (1.9.1 or 1.9.9) I was expecting.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Triode User said:


> Which squeezelite version do you have with 3.1?
> 
> I have 1.8.7 with 3.1 which is not the latest version (1.9.1 or 1.9.9) I was expecting.


Yeah, 1.8.7


----------



## Triode User

Ciggavelli said:


> Yeah, 1.8.7


I have tried looking to see what version of LMS (ie Squeeze server) I have on the K50 server but I cant seem to see where that is listed. Have you seen a way to find that out?

I have asked Mark Cole on the Antipodes help forum how the overnight pushing of updated apps works and whether it is automatic or whether it depends on Antipodes manually releasing them into the update procedure. For instance some guys are reporting that they received HQP 4.26.2 with the 3.1 roll out but I received version 4.26.0 and it has not automatically updated to 4.26.2.


----------



## Whazzzup

I’m also waiting for Marc to impregnate some code or something, any desk at the ready. But seeing as it’s just after midnight nz time, will wait and see


----------



## Progisus

Mark and I had a session last night. Interesting… my update did only segment 3 as I already had the updated software with 2.8 I guess. Hopefully the roon update works ok on the 3rd. Just learning the gui now but so far roon/hqplayer and mpd working. Soundwize improvement, the jury’s out.


----------



## Progisus

Triode User said:


> Which squeezelite version do you have with 3.1?
> 
> I have 1.8.7 with 3.1 which is not the latest version (1.9.1 or 1.9.9) I was expecting.


Re HQPlayer version. 4.26.2 was released to the repository at the same time as 3.1 was being upgraded. Early upgraders will have 4.26.0 or .1 while later may have 4.26.2. I was at 4.26.1 and then received 4.26.2. I will check my other player versions and report back. All where deleted and reinstalled as the upgrade scrolled past.


----------



## Progisus

What I don't understand in 3.1 is that all these servers are running. In 2.7 and 2.8 you were able to stop each server. Antipodes stated that it was important to run only the required software for best sound.


----------



## Triode User

Progisus said:


> What I don't understand in 3.1 is that all these servers are running. In 2.7 and 2.8 you were able to stop each server. Antipodes stated that it was important to run only the required software for best sound.


As far as I understand it, just click on any highlighted (ie running) server and it will quit.  Only the highlighted ones are running.


----------



## Progisus

Triode User said:


> As far as I understand it, just click on any highlighted (ie running) server and it will quit.  Only the highlighted ones are running.


Thanks Nick... I'm an idiot sometimes. Argh!


----------



## kennyb123

I think it’s not going to be immediately apparent if the sound quality improved with the update.  I power-cycled my K30 like seven times yesterday, so I have to think that’s somewhat to blame for things sounding somewhat disheveled this morning.  MPD sounded bright, Roon/RAAT was terribly annoying, and HQPlayer sounded ok, but not as liquid/warm as it used to be.

Power-cycling a music server is something I’ve never been a fan of doing.  It was smart though for Antipodes to require this though as it guarantees a clean plate when moving on to the next stage.  Quite an undertaking to get all these different versions to version parity.  Their efforts to support us should be simplified once they get over this hump.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Triode User said:


> I have tried looking to see what version of LMS (ie Squeeze server) I have on the K50 server but I cant seem to see where that is listed. Have you seen a way to find that out?
> 
> I have asked Mark Cole on the Antipodes help forum how the overnight pushing of updated apps works and whether it is automatic or whether it depends on Antipodes manually releasing them into the update procedure. For instance some guys are reporting that they received HQP 4.26.2 with the 3.1 roll out but I received version 4.26.0 and it has not automatically updated to 4.26.2.


No, I can't see which Squeeze server either


----------



## kennyb123

Ciggavelli said:


> No, I can't see which Squeeze server either


LMS can be found on port 9000 of the server.  Once there, you can get info.


----------



## Ciggavelli

kennyb123 said:


> LMS can be found on port 9000 of the server.  Once there, you can get info.


I can't seem to find out how to get to that info.  Where did you go?


----------



## kennyb123

Ciggavelli said:


> I can't seem to find out how to get to that info.  Where did you go?


http://10.0.0.224:9000/

But substitute the IP address of your server.  And once there select Information.


----------



## Ciggavelli

kennyb123 said:


> http://10.0.0.224:9000/
> 
> But substitute the IP address of your server.  And once there select Information.


Thanks


----------



## atya35mm

kennyb123 said:


> I think it’s not going to be immediately apparent if the sound quality improved with the update.  I power-cycled my K30 like seven times yesterday, so I have to think that’s somewhat to blame for things sounding somewhat disheveled this morning.  MPD sounded bright, Roon/RAAT was terribly annoying, and HQPlayer sounded ok, but not as liquid/warm as it used to be.
> 
> Power-cycling a music server is something I’ve never been a fan of doing.  It was smart though for Antipodes to require this though as it guarantees a clean plate when moving on to the next stage.  Quite an undertaking to get all these different versions to version parity.  Their efforts to support us should be simplified once they get over this hump.


That could possibly be it, as I seem to be missing the magic as well during my 2 hour listening session yesterday night. Could be all that power cycling. Although with squeeze player not being the latest version, so possibly looking forward to getting that when it hits. 

Tried minimserver for the first time yesterday, but still MPD as player and using mConnectHD as controller as that seems to be the only way. SQ seems on par compared to the usual which is via minidlna for now.


----------



## kennyb123

atya35mm said:


> missing the magic


Good way to describe it


----------



## Progisus

kennyb123 said:


> Good way to describe it


Have you tried MPD direct play yet? Use a controller like Rigelian or MaximumMPD and play direct from your ssd to the player. Mconnect channels from server to Mconnect and then to the player. PGGB magic.


----------



## atya35mm

Progisus said:


> Have you tried MPD direct play yet? Use a controller like Rigelian or MaximumMPD and play direct from your ssd to the player. Mconnect channels from server to Mconnect and then to the player. PGGB magic.


will try messing about to set it up today


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> Have you tried MPD direct play yet? Use a controller like Rigelian or MaximumMPD and play direct from your ssd to the player. Mconnect channels from server to Mconnect and then to the player. PGGB magic.


Rigelian still doesn’t work for me - and it appears that it won’t as long as my Server and Player run on two different machines.  

For reasons unknown, my PGGB files aren’t being properly scanned by MinimSever.  The folders are either empty or missing tracks.  This was a problem in my former setup and I hoped the switch to MinimServer would have corrected it but no such luck.  Glider keeps crashing when I try to sync my library so that’s probably part of it.  I hated these UPNP apps a decade ago and it seems they still stink just as bad as they did then.  Many of my PGGB tracks show up under Unknown Artist.  It’s 2021 - how the heck could ther still be apps unable to read tags?  HQPlayer and Roon can both find the tags for these tracks.

Sorry for the epic rant but I just want this to be plug and play.  I did purchase a license for MinimServer.  I hope I can make tweaks to help it along.  They do generate a log of the files they couldn’t read along with the reason why.  I will look for this.  I went through this crap when I owned an Auralic Aries.  Roon was such a godsend because they were able to intelligently derive the tags.  That was 2016 or so - so I would hope that MinimServer has gained some smarts since then.


----------



## kennyb123

Hello there, Magic.  Welcome back.  

HQPlayer is sounding at least as good as it was before the restart mania.


----------



## Progisus

Bonus… no more hi pitched squeal when stopping MPD in middle of track.

Something to try. In browser type yourIP/v2. For me it takes me to the underlying sonicorbiter software. Could be dangerous.


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> Could be dangerous


Very


----------



## frankensmurf

Hmm, finished the 3.1 upgrade on CX and EX, everything seemed to go fine, but upon launching Roon, I couldn't find the Core, was prompted to unauthorize another running instance, and now it looks like I'm setting up Roon from scratch.  Did I screw something up?


----------



## kennyb123

frankensmurf said:


> Hmm, finished the 3.1 upgrade on CX and EX, everything seemed to go fine, but upon launching Roon, I couldn't find the Core, was prompted to unauthorize another running instance, and now it looks like I'm setting up Roon from scratch. Did I screw something up?


That's what I experienced.  After restoring your last Roon backup all will be good.


----------



## td19 (Oct 31, 2021)

Progisus said:


> Bonus… no more hi pitched squeal when stopping MPD in middle of track.
> 
> Something to try. In browser type yourIP/v2. For me it takes me to the underlying sonicorbiter software. Could be dangerous.


I doubt it will be dangerous ... but probably should be avoided.


----------



## Whazzzup

my DX was just impregnated with code try the update later.


----------



## Progisus

EX HQPlayer rekeyed and all back to normal. Time for some Prog.


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> EX HQPlayer rekeyed and all back to normal.


Did you receive a new key from Jussi?


----------



## Uncle Monty

frankensmurf said:


> Hmm, finished the 3.1 upgrade on CX and EX, everything seemed to go fine, but upon launching Roon, I couldn't find the Core, was prompted to unauthorize another running instance, and now it looks like I'm setting up Roon from scratch.  Did I screw something up?


just restart Roon on CX menu


----------



## Progisus

kennyb123 said:


> Did you receive a new key from Jussi?


yes. you can request at info@signalyst.com. Takes a couple days.


----------



## Whazzzup

Well I’m stuck after stage two, no stage 3. Tried 1-1 time, don’t bother they don’t phone. Mark after asking clarification 3 times what happen to me, has gone quiet. couple of other members are in same position, wondering if they should return units, yikes. this Wasn’t what I signed up for, and do offer condolences if any one else is having software or other upgrade issues.


----------



## kennyb123

Whazzzup said:


> Well I’m stuck after stage two, no stage 3. Tried 1-1 time, don’t bother they don’t phone. Mark after asking clarification 3 times what happen to me, has gone quiet. couple of other members are in same position, wondering if they should return units, yikes. this Wasn’t what I signed up for, and do offer condolences if any one else is having software or other upgrade issues.


They've asked for patience.  If you aren't hearing back from them it's likely because they are helping to solve someone else's issues.  This is just how things go sometimes in the world of tech upgrades.


----------



## Ciggavelli

With 3.1, my K50 hasn’t frozen up once yet, unlike 3.0. We’re still in early days, but that alone made the update worth it


----------



## Progisus

td19 said:


> I doubt it will be dangerous ... but probably should be avoided.






Tony,

What would happen if the “Update” was pressed to bring in the most up to date apps? 👹


----------



## td19 (Nov 1, 2021)

Progisus said:


> Tony,
> 
> What would happen if the “Update” was pressed to bring in the most up to date apps? 👹


Nothing happens update-wise, you get this response:


----------



## frankensmurf

Whazzzup said:


> Well I’m stuck after stage two, no stage 3. Tried 1-1 time, don’t bother they don’t phone. Mark after asking clarification 3 times what happen to me, has gone quiet. couple of other members are in same position, wondering if they should return units, yikes. this Wasn’t what I signed up for, and do offer condolences if any one else is having software or other upgrade issues.


Did you try power cycling the box? I had to do a full power down to get to stage 3.


----------



## td19

frankensmurf said:


> Did you try power cycling the box? I had to do a full power down to get to stage 3.


The instructions on the website do make the point after the first upgrade step ... 'To reboot, use the front panel button to shutdown, and again to startup.' I did this also for steps 2 and 3 and had no problems on either CX or EX. I suspect this may be important and that soft reboot from the GUI should not be used.


----------



## kennyb123

Ciggavelli said:


> With 3.1, my K50 hasn’t frozen up once yet, unlike 3.0.


That's odd.  My K30 never once froze up with 3.0.

I have had problems though with HQPlayer becoming unstable if the NAA loses connection with my DAC.  When that happens the Player will sometimes be unresponsive so a reboot is required.  To prevent this, I've first switched to another player (like Roon) before I shutdown my DAC and then switch back to HQPlayer when the DAC is back up.  I did that recently to upgrade the fuse in my DAC.


----------



## Whazzzup (Nov 2, 2021)

Oh, I’m chill, what else am I going to do. Mark and I hooked up, I was discouraged yesterday because I knew we were at an impasse as my connection under 3.1 failure was lost so how could he fix it. But my unit will go to Martin in uk now, to be wiped, reinstalled, sent back. So will miss my DX, be well son, travel safe


----------



## Triode User

.


Whazzzup said:


> Oh, I’m chill, what else am I going to do. Mark and I hooked up, I was discouraged yesterday because I knew we were at an impasse as my connection under 3.1 failure was lost so how could he fix it. But my unit will go to Martin in uk now, to be wiped, reinstalled, sent back. So will miss my DX, be well son, travel safe


Sorry to hear about the issues you are having.

Out of interest, who is Martin in the UK? Is this some sort of service centre?


----------



## Whazzzup

Triode User said:


> .
> 
> Sorry to hear about the issues you are having.
> 
> Out of interest, who is Martin in the UK? Is this some sort of service centre?


Not sure, i asked mark is this going to nz. He said no Martin in uk, will receive free shipping info at some point.


----------



## Whazzzup

Just as a heads up, it’s Denver, mark didn’t realize it’s Canada I’m in. I remember that’s were I sent my old dtgs when I got my DX replacement. It’s Larry Owens


----------



## naynay (Nov 3, 2021)

Mark not Martin I remember his name began with M 😊


----------



## cczero17

naynay said:


> I presume it is Martin Wood of Elite Audio very nice guy I have dealt with him in the past.


Hey all,

No it would be Martin Smith of Audiostore/Vortexbox. He was the distributor before elite took over, however he still looks after some upgrades in the UK. 

He helped me with my lights last year 
https://www.vortexbox.co.uk/


----------



## Whazzzup

frankensmurf said:


> Did you try power cycling the box? I had to do a full power down to get to stage 3.


Glad it worked for you, not for me tho….


----------



## Whazzzup

better through TT and GSX mk2 but no antipodes, sniff sniff


----------



## Progisus

I’m thinking of upgrading my EX by adding an S40 and S60. That way I can keep a PGGB ssd in the EX and still use it to do MPD direct. The S40 would be mounted remote and the EX fed through a dedicated fibre connection to the direct steam ethernet port on the S40. Or… would it be better to just get a CX?

Does anyone know if the S60 is really necessary when using the S40 in server mode only?

Fir those using the K series is there no way to setup the player side to look at the ssd’s so that MPD direct would work? @kennyb123 says this is a problem.


----------



## cczero17

Progisus said:


> I’m thinking of upgrading my EX by adding an S40 and S60. That way I can keep a PGGB ssd in the EX and still use it to do MPD direct. The S40 would be mounted remote and the EX fed through a dedicated fibre connection to the direct steam ethernet port on the S40. Or… would it be better to just get a CX?
> 
> Does anyone know if the S60 is really necessary when using the S40 in server mode only?
> 
> Fir those using the K series is there no way to setup the player side to look at the ssd’s so that MPD direct would work? @kennyb123 says this is a problem.


A CX is quite cheap these days. With that and your EX, get them both updated with the OLADRA tech.....it will be a very very good system


----------



## Uncle Monty

cczero17 said:


> A CX is quite cheap these days. With that and your EX, get them both updated with the OLADRA tech.....it will be a very very good system


Just had mine done and it's a big improvement, but is the upgrade window still open?


----------



## Progisus

I personally wouldn’t do the upgrade to my EX as I feel it already has a custom power supply. I am looking for a separate server. The S40 is roughly the same cost as a discounted new CX at my dealer so I would gravitate to new. The CX already has a good power supply and was state of the art at the time the CX was designed. The S40 seems to have gone the brick ps way to keep the cost down. As a sever only I am not sure the S60 power supply would bring any benefit. Another option is the K40 but I like the smaller form factor and stackability with the EX.


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> The S40 seems to have gone the brick ps way to keep the cost down. As a sever only I am not sure the S60 power supply would bring any benefit.


I think it would and the improvement wouldn’t be subtle at all. The better instantaneous demands for current are met, the less noise that gets dumped on the ground plane.  A busy server is going to be demanding instantaneous current.  Since it all starts with the server, the cleaner the signal is coming out if it the better.


----------



## cczero17

Progisus said:


> I personally wouldn’t do the upgrade to my EX as I feel it already has a custom power supply. I am looking for a separate server. The S40 is roughly the same cost as a discounted new CX at my dealer so I would gravitate to new. The CX already has a good power supply and was state of the art at the time the CX was designed. The S40 seems to have gone the brick ps way to keep the cost down. As a sever only I am not sure the S60 power supply would bring any benefit. Another option is the K40 but I like the smaller form factor and stackability with the EX.


Oh believe me, I've had both the CX and EX upgraded to OLADRA and the performance difference is quite large compared to the standard CX and EX


----------



## Progisus

cczero17 said:


> Oh believe me, I've had both the CX and EX upgraded to OLADRA and the performance difference is quite large compared to the standard CX and EX


I do believe you. It’s just that the $2k cost per unit drives it the range of a new S40 and S60. I think the upgrade window is closed so by the time I got a CX I would be out of luck. Could be wrong here. Fun contemplating.


----------



## cczero17

Progisus said:


> I do believe you. It’s just that the $2k cost per unit drives it the range of a new S40 and S60. I think the upgrade window is closed so by the time I got a CX I would be out of luck. Could be wrong here. Fun contemplating.


Perhaps Mark could give you some advice on the best path for you.


----------



## magnuska

Progisus said:


> I do believe you. It’s just that the $2k cost per unit drives it the range of a new S40 and S60. I think the upgrade window is closed so by the time I got a CX I would be out of luck. Could be wrong here. Fun contemplating.


I have sent you a pm


----------



## cczero17

So how do you go about updating the software to include any new HqPlayer updates now we have 3.1?


----------



## kennyb123

cczero17 said:


> So how do you go about updating the software to include any new HqPlayer updates now we have 3.1?


Antipodes will eventually start pushing out updates themselves.  I think it’s only Roon that we can update ourselves.  The advantage of them pushing updates out is that they will test them first.


----------



## Triode User

cczero17 said:


> So how do you go about updating the software to include any new HqPlayer updates now we have 3.1?


3.1 automatically loads the later versions of server apps and player apps and as and when new ones become available and vetted by Antipodes they will be pushed automatically to your Antipodes overnight as long as you permanently leave it on.  

The only slight glitch at the moment is that some of us have got 3.1 with later versions of apps compared to other users. To me this is slightly annoying that Antipdes have not immediately pushed out the later versions so that we all have the same but perhaps the updating pushing is yet to be completed.


----------



## Triode User

Antipodes have posted this update on their Support Forum and it might be interesting for anyone who doesn’t frequent that useful place.

_”Thanks for everyone’s patience. There is a lot going on at present, but I will try to be concise.
We can see from our database that more than a thousand users upgraded in the first few days, and amongst that we were always going to have a few failures, given that we needed two kernel downloads over the internet to work without a hitch. This is no consolation if you are one of those that struck a problem, and you are our top priority right now, but the failure rate has been very low.

While Mark Cole has been the point person for all of you, three of us are working in the background, getting reports from Mark about what is going wrong for some users, feeding Mark with fixes where they can be simply applied, and/or developing patches for the next push.

The next push will include updated third party apps, upgrades to the myantipodes process, a couple of bug fixes, and a new Squeeze remote control web app. We have a large software development program underway, but the critical first step is getting users onto a common v3.1 starting point.

I think it is worth clarifying a couple of messages that it seems we have not communicated well enough. The first is about the need for patience with the upgrade steps, and the second is about how overnight updates work.

*The need for patience.*
The upgrade steps include downloading and installing a new kernel for the operating system. A new operating system needs to interrogate all hardware components on the main board and some connected boards, and then configure its device drivers to ensure that everything will run as it is intended. For example, the same kernel is being installed on a DS1 from 2011 and a K50 from 2021 and every motherboard we have used in the decade between those. The differences in drivers required have to be determined and configured for each music server. This happens the first time you boot into the new kernel, and that process has a set time limit of a couple of minutes. The time limit is necessary because, in our experience, users often panic at a long boot and pull the plug, potentially causing a more serious problem.

So you might not get a completed configuration at the first boot after Step 3/3. So another reboot or more may be needed to get everything configured properly, depending on the quality of your internet connection. A number of factors will affect how long it takes to get the job done. I think we had a dozen or so reported upgrade failures that resolved themselves after as many as four reboots. I have only touched on one of the reasons why this is not a simple ‘press a button and it is done’ kind of process, but it might help you to understand that the system needs to be given time to sort itself out, and this is normal.

*Overnight Updates*.
Prior to v3.0, we did not have a way to push updates out automatically. Customers had to initiate the updates, which led to our many customers being on a range of different generations of operating system and applications. This makes it very difficult to provide support and ongoing software upgrades.

Nor were we in a position to do anything about that without getting the update code onto your devices. We did manage to get the code out to a few devices with an update in 2019, but not many customers took up that offer. All v.3 devices have the update code. So this v3.1 upgrade process is flushing out who still needs the update code and Mark Cole is progressively getting it out there.

In some cases poorly setup IPv6 configurations on DNS servers managed by your ISPs are also getting in the way of the update code being able to work. Fortunately this is impacting only a small percentage of users, but we are giving them top priority at the moment. Changing your DNS server addresses and/or disabling IPv6 on your router is typically going to be needed to fix these ones, as the problem has nothing to do with our code. Sadly these problems are not uncommon when a new internet standard is rolled out - if you can browse the internet and send emails, then that is sometimes all your ISP tests for when implementing on their DNS servers. It eventually works itself out and right now IPv6 implementations are creating problems for a wide range of software that requires sophisticated communications. In our case, the fault does not lie with our software, it lies with a small number of ISPs.

Once we have actions underway for all customers that need a fix, we will shift our focus to the ongoing overnight updates, to push out new versions of apps, bug fixes, enhancements, etc. We do not want to interrupt your listening pleasure, so these updates are timed for around 3:30am. To receive the update your device needs to be booted up and left on overnight.
If you like, just do this once a week or once a month, but if you want the optimum sound quality from your Antipodes music server you should typically be leaving it always on anyway. At 3.30am, your device will look at the Antipodes repository and check that it is up to date. If it sees that there are later versions of any software components it will download and install them. Sometimes an internet issue will mean your device is timed out from the repository and you will get the update on another night.

We only add new software components to the repository when they have been fully tested on our operating system and with our integration code. We do not put a new app in the repository just because the third-party software developer has a newer version, because that risks your server receiving a version that will not work on your device. The only exception to this is Roon, where our partnership with Roon means there are processes in place to ensure their new versions will work before they are released.
Sorry for the long post, just hoping it clarifies a few things.”_


----------



## andrewd01

After a moderately stressful experience both CX and EX are now upgraded.  Does anyone know how to get to the HQ Player settings?  I found a link under server apps but is asking for a user name and password!  No idea what they are.


----------



## kennyb123

andrewd01 said:


> Does anyone know how to get to the HQ Player settings? I found a link under server apps but is asking for a user name and password! No idea what they are.


Try admin for both username and password.


----------



## andrewd01

Thanks, I eventually found that in the legacy user guide: https://antipodes.audio/amsv2-guide/?page=70
Up and running now and I must say it sounds better to my ears.
Just waiting for a new HQP license key now.  I sent an email to Jussi.


----------



## HouseElf

Quick question for Antipodes owners. 

Does anyone use just the EX on its own as server and player for, say, Roon? I have seen one for a bargain price with the P1 ripper and it is seriously tempting.

I keep reading conflicting reports that say it’s only really of use as part of an EX/CX system (Mark at Antipodes confirmed pretty much this) but others including users and reviewers say that it operates fine as a stand alone unit.

I am not looking to get a CX in the future as for the foreseeable funds will not allow so it would be an EX.

Is the EX competitive stand alone against similarly priced products from Melco or Innuos? 

Thanks,

Rob


----------



## Progisus

HouseElf said:


> Quick question for Antipodes owners.
> 
> Does anyone use just the EX on its own as server and player for, say, Roon? I have seen one for a bargain price with the P1 ripper and it is seriously tempting.
> 
> ...


I have found that with the new .NET updates to Roon, the EX works well as a Roon server for smaller libraries with little DSP. Contra to Roon’s instructions I actually prefer the sound of the EX as a server/player than with the core remote on my NUC/Rock computer.


----------



## HouseElf

Progisus said:


> I have found that with the new .NET updates to Roon, the EX works well as a Roon server for smaller libraries with little DSP. Contra to Roon’s instructions I actually prefer the sound of the EX as a server/player than with the core remote on my NUC/Rock computer.



Thanks for this. 

When you say smaller libraries mine is around 700GB’s. Would this be considered small?


----------



## Progisus

HouseElf said:


> Thanks for this.
> 
> When you say smaller libraries mine is around 700GB’s. Would this be considered small?


That should be fine. I suggest an ssd plugged in to the rear slot as opposed to a usb drive, for best performance and sound.


----------



## HouseElf

Progisus said:


> That should be fine. I suggest an ssd plugged in to the rear slot as opposed to a usb drive, for best performance and sound.


Thanks - that was the way I was going to go. 

I just didn’t want to be buying a bit of kit that was going to be slowing down all the time. I’ve no need for all of Roon’s processing - my DAC can only accept up to 24/96 anyway.


----------



## andrewd01

HouseElf said:


> Quick question for Antipodes owners.
> 
> Does anyone use just the EX on its own as server and player for, say, Roon? I have seen one for a bargain price with the P1 ripper and it is seriously tempting.
> 
> ...



I used an EX standalone before I added a CX.  Before that I had an Innuos Zen III.  I used the EX as a combined Roon core/player and then later switched to HQ Player as the renderer.  The EX is an excellent standalone server but does improve significantly with the addition of the CX.  The good news is that both EX and CX are bargains on the used market due to the new range.


----------



## jaykap35

Just got the k50 in October .  Love it .  Any tips or tricks would be great .   But had a question , how do I use hqplayer with it ? Right now my usb out is going to my chord m scaler /dave


----------



## kennyb123

HouseElf said:


> Does anyone use just the EX on its own as server and player for, say, Roon? I


I think the EX may be underpowered as far as running Roon Core.  Also better for sound quality to not have Roon Core running on the device that directly connects to a DAC via USB.  

I previously ran Roon Core on an Innuos Zenith Mk3, which may be even lower in power than the EX.  It can work for sure.  Performance may lag a bit though.



kennyb123 said:


> For reasons unknown, my PGGB files aren’t being properly scanned by MinimSever. The folders are either empty or missing tracks. This was a problem in my former setup and I hoped the switch to MinimServer would have corrected it but no such luck.


Woo hoo… I am up and running now with MPD.  It seems that MinimServer righted itself.  Well mostly.  Sounds great!!


----------



## atya35mm

jaykap35 said:


> Just got the k50 in October .  Love it .  Any tips or tricks would be great .   But had a question , how do I use hqplayer with it ? Right now my usb out is going to my chord m scaler /dave


First thing to try would be to use BNC from K50 to m scaler, instead of USB, and see if you notice an improvement. Couple people here reported benefits skipping USB, except for @kennyb123 of course with the omega USB cable.


----------



## jaykap35

I already have a bnc going from the k50 to my holo May and serene


----------



## atya35mm

jaykap35 said:


> I already have a bnc going from the k50 to my holo May and serene


oh nice! dual setup


----------



## jaykap35

Thanks buddy .   I love the setup I’m running the k50 to my chord dave and mscaler and wa33 via usb, wave storm bnc, and the holo May is going silver dragon via bnc to the k50 fed to the benchmark ahb2 for the susvaras and 1266 tc


----------



## kennyb123

atya35mm said:


> Couple people here reported benefits skipping USB, except for @kennyb123 of course with the omega USB cable.


USB is the only output that supports sample rates up to 705.6k/768k.  All my files are sent to my DAC scaled up to one of this frequencies, USB is the only option for me.

@Triode User and @Progisus where do you both currently stand as your preferred player for PGGB'd files?


----------



## jaykap35

kennyb123 said:


> USB is the only output that supports sample rates up to 705.6k/768k.  All my files are sent to my DAC scaled up to one of this frequencies, USB is the only option for me.


Very true , or you can also get a upscaler too.

I have usb going from the k50 to my chord mscaler to my chord dave



jaykap35 said:


> Very true , or you can also get a upscaler too.
> 
> I have usb going from the k50 to my chord mscaler to my chord dave


 The m scaler and dave are connected dual wave storm bncs and my amp is a jps wa33 fed by audioquest fire and hurricane cables


----------



## kennyb123

jaykap35 said:


> very true , or you can also get a upscaler too.


Been there, done that.  I far prefer what PGGB does for my music.  And HQPlayer is good enough for everything that hasn't been processed with PGGB.


----------



## jaykap35

kennyb123 said:


> Been there, done that.  I far prefer what PGGB does for my music.  And HQPlayer is good enough for everything that hasn't been processed with PGGB.


 Hqplayer is worth getting ?   Do you need any external usb audio interfaces or just a simple plug the k50 into the computer ? Or do you plug your dac via usb to computer to use hq


----------



## HouseElf

kennyb123 said:


> I think the EX may be underpowered as far as running Roon Core.  Also better for sound quality to not have Roon Core running on the device that directly connects to a DAC via USB.
> 
> I previously ran Roon Core on an Innuos Zenith Mk3, which may be even lower in power than the EX.  It can work for sure.  Performance may lag a bit though.



It is a shame - the specs of the EX suggest it should be as good as the Zenith (which can be used as a Core and a Player) so should work fine without any heavy lifting with DSP/DSD conversion.


----------



## jaykap35

Are you guys happy with your servers ? Or wish you got something different .   I was torn between the k50 and the wavedream


----------



## kennyb123

jaykap35 said:


> Hqplayer is worth getting ? Do you need any external usb audio interfaces or just a simple plug the k50 into the computer ? Or do you plug your dac via usb to computer to use hq


It's free to try.  You just have to restart it on the K50 server dashboard after 30 minutes are up for you to get another 30 minutes of use.

To hear what HQPlayer does, it will be best to bypass the M-Scaler.  I don't think you will prefer the HQPlayer over M-Scaler but in my case selling the M-Scaler helped me to purchase my K30.  

If you'd like to try HQPlayer, I can share recommended settings with you.


----------



## kennyb123

HouseElf said:


> It is a shame - the specs of the EX suggest it should be as good as the Zenith (which can be used as a Core and a Player) so should work fine without any heavy lifting with DSP/DSD conversion.


I agree, but see this:  https://community.roonlabs.com/t/about-the-innuos-category/76636


----------



## kennyb123

jaykap35 said:


> Are you guys happy with your servers ? Or wish you got something different


I have wished only to win the lottery so I can afford a Taiko Extreme.  Haha.  Seriously though I love my K30.


----------



## jaykap35

kennyb123 said:


> It's free to try.  You just have to restart it on the K50 server dashboard after 30 minutes are up for you to get another 30 minutes of use.
> 
> To hear what HQPlayer does, it will be best to bypass the M-Scaler.  I don't think you will prefer the HQPlayer over M-Scaler but in my case selling the M-Scaler helped me to purchase my K30.
> 
> If you'd like to try HQPlayer, I can share recommended settings with you.


That would be great if you can , as I’m lost in how to set it up  .  I downloaded the trial version of it a few days ago and connected my holo May dac to it , not the dave or m scaler yet  but can’t get any sound .  I uploaded some songs to try it out but it keeps playing out of the computer settings .


----------



## Progisus

kennyb123 said:


> @Triode User and @Progisus where do you both currently stand as your preferred player for PGGB'd files?


Hi Kenny,

I gave squeeze a try after the 3.1 update but still prefer MPD. Squeeze is great sounding player for non upscaled files but I dislike the gui’s.  Are you now able to play directly without going through a upnp player like mconnect?


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> I gave squeeze a try after the 3.1 update but still prefer MPD. Squeeze is great sounding player for non upscaled files but I dislike the gui’s. Are you now able to play directly without going through a upnp player like mconnect?


Glider is working well for me now.  As is mconnect.


----------



## Ciggavelli

jaykap35 said:


> Are you guys happy with your servers ? Or wish you got something different .   I was torn between the k50 and the wavedream


We have similar equipment. Adding an Innuos PhoenixUSB between your K50 and M-Scaler will be a nice modest increase. Then, getting Sean Jacob DC4 PSUs for your DAVE and M-Scaler will also bring you a very nice sound quality increase (though at a cost).

I had the Innuos Zenith Mk3 and PhoenixUSB before my K50, and I like almost everything better with the K50. Other that the Taiko Extreme mentioned above, I don’t think you can find anything better than the K50


----------



## cczero17

When my units went half way across the world to have the hardware upgraded, it was only when they returned that I realized that my Roon back ups....well didn't back up. The folder they were pointing to wasnt fit for purpose.

Roll on to now and Mark has set me up with a correct path/folder for roon back ups to reside.

Today I took a look to see if everything looks in order. Well, I have no idea if this ok or not. I was expecting 1 folder but appear to have hundreds of small folders. Is this correct? I have attached a pic of the begining.

Cheers


----------



## Progisus

cczero17 said:


> When my units went half way across the world to have the hardware upgraded, it was only when they returned that I realized that my Roon back ups....well didn't back up. The folder they were pointing to wasnt fit for purpose.
> 
> Roll on to now and Mark has set me up with a correct path/folder for roon back ups to reside.
> 
> ...


That is correct. They are just sub folders created with backup data under the RoonBackups folder.


----------



## jaykap35

Have a question .  I have about 100 gigs of songs on a external hard drive , each time I try to transfer them to the server I get a error code that says path invalid , can someone point me in the right direction on how to solve this ?


----------



## Presence (Nov 10, 2021)

*Listening Observations - S60 replacing LPSs to Uptone EtherRegens from network to CX and between CX and EX*

Immediately out of the box, the SQ refinements of the S60 powering the two EtherRegens were* at least* equal in magnitude to what I experienced from the CX and EX PS upgrades.

*Details*
Using Roon to Squeeze, I first upgraded Roon to build 846 and then 850 and heard more open treble along with openness/space.
Outside of more treble/space, I wouldn't necessarily say the Roon Linux upgrade on Roon Server-only was particularly more refined.
[After reflecting on this, I should eventually listen to Roon Server *AND* Roon Ready post upgrade]
But I didn't give it a ton of listening as I wanted to insert the S60.

I use an EtherRegen from the network to the CX and between CX and EX so I first powered the network ER to the CX with the S60 and Qobuz-streamed Allman Brothers Stormy Monday 24/96 and immediately noticed transient refinement to go along with the more open treble. A moderate and welcomed improvement.

I then powered the CX to EX EtherRegen via S60 and got a bigger bump in transient refinement along with more air around instruments, better timbre and detail *on everything. *

It's getting more difficult for me to assign % improvements as the refinements are taking place in more refined listening categories [as I experience it] and they don't seem to directly translate/scale to how I heard and rated things prior.

From my history, I'd maintain that going from DX3 to CX/EX was a 45% improvement, mostly characterized by opening of and width of the soundstage and its holography .
Adding 10Mhz reference to EtherRegens and USB>i2S DDI [15% each] and Innuous USB repeater [20-25%] *in my* system.

The CX/EX PS upgrades added depth, separation and refinement around each instrument which added to the improved holography, naturalness and ability for more laser-like focus to the source of each voice and instrument.
As with CX/EX PS upgrades, the S60 replacing my overbuilt, low-noise LPS' to the EtherRegens added immediate refinement around each instrument in a significant way that just seems different to rating raw soundstage expansion from pre Antipodes PS upgrades... Again, in the area of more laser-like detail [not spot lit treble] blooming from the source of each instrument.

Source Front End:
Frontier ADSL > TP-Link MC100CM Fiber Repeater > Uptone EtherRegen* > Antipodes CX >Uptone EtherRegen* > Antipodes EX > Innuous Phoenix USB Regen > SingXer DDI* > i2S > Audio GD R8HE DAC

* Mutec Ref10 SE120 10Mhz to EtherRegens & DDI
Antipodes S60 > EtherRegens


----------



## kennyb123

Presence said:


> Immediately out of the box, the SQ refinements of the S60 powering the two EtherRegens were* at least* equal in magnitude to what I experienced from the CX and EX PS upgrades.


 Thanks for sharing your findings.  The S60 should be receiving much more attention.



Presence said:


> I then powered the CX to EX EtherRegen via S60 and got a bigger bump in transient refinement along with more air around instruments, better timbre and detail *on everything. *



Now you have me wonder if the S30+S40+S60 would have been a better way to go than the K30 because of the ability to insert an ER between the S30 and S40.


----------



## Presence (Nov 10, 2021)

kennyb123 said:


> Thanks for sharing your findings.  The S60 should be receiving much more attention.
> 
> 
> 
> Now you have me wonder if the S30+S40+S60 would have been a better way to go than the K30 because of the ability to insert an ER between the S30 and S40.


I wish I could draw a line beforehand with regards to continually adding more black boxes and cabling and run-away cost. I'm now wondering how to add a hybrid PS to the digital section of the Audio GD DAC with built in AC regenerator... A Ferrum Hypsos programmed for 5V output would serve as the finest Rube Goldberg to feed the bank of 3.3 regulators to all things digital internally for another $1K+.  
At this time, I don't have the technical knowledge to put together the switching section after the bridge rectifier to easily replace the existing voltage regulators.
Given the hybrid in the CX appears to still utilize a bridge rectifier, I'm assuming the speed comes from replacing the LPS regulator but I can't fully substantiate how it works...


----------



## kennyb123

HQPlayer configured with the least processing (to the best of my knowledge) sounds better balanced overall to me relative to MPD for my tracks processed with PGGB.  MPD seems to emphasize the highs just a bit more.  That can seem very positive as it has the net effect of highlighting what’s going on in the upper frequencies.  I seemed like it could get a bit hot with recording that can be bright at times.

I really didn’t think they were that far apart actually in the grand scheme of things - but maybe with more time invested in comparing them I might tease out more differences.  I’ll wait to hear what others report.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Nov 10, 2021)

cczero17 said:


> When my units went half way across the world to have the hardware upgraded, it was only when they returned that I realized that my Roon back ups....well didn't back up. The folder they were pointing to wasnt fit for purpose.
> 
> Roll on to now and Mark has set me up with a correct path/folder for roon back ups to reside.
> 
> ...


That has happened to me so much that I went into each album folder and tagged them correctly in my actual files on my hdd. I have a very large library, so I think that might be why my Roon backups fail at times. I spent a stupid amount of time tagging my album collection, but now it’s just plug and play if the roon back up doesn’t work. When I updated to 3.1, I completely forgot to back up roon. But, not a big problem at all with my properly tagged files. It takes a long time and is very monotonous, but it does have its benefits


----------



## kennyb123

Ciggavelli said:


> I spent a stupid amount of time tagging my album collection, but now it’s just plug and play if the roon back up doesn’t work.


I've been meticulous with my tagging as well.  I really like the Mac application Yate as it reduces the effort considerable.  Likewise for ripping with dbPoweramp as it does a fantastic job fetching tags and album art.  

JRiver is a fantastic app for tagging but I haven't used it in years. 

One area where I take some more time to get right is album art.  I want it to be apparent, for example, which albums are MoFi reissues so each of those albums are tagged with the MoFi cover.  Roon won't use this by default so I have to go into each album and tell it to use the art in the file itself. It's a bit of work but my OCD demands it.  Haha.  Here's how it looks in Roon:


----------



## Triode User (Nov 11, 2021)

kennyb123 said:


> HQPlayer configured with the least processing (to the best of my knowledge) sounds better balanced overall to me relative to MPD for my tracks processed with PGGB.  MPD seems to emphasize the highs just a bit more.  That can seem very positive as it has the net effect of highlighting what’s going on in the upper frequencies.  I seemed like it could get a bit hot with recording that can be bright at times.
> 
> I really didn’t think they were that far apart actually in the grand scheme of things - but maybe with more time invested in comparing them I might tease out more differences.  I’ll wait to hear what others report.


To the best of my knowledge, HQP and Squeeze are ‘push’ apps which do all the work within the server and then send the file to the Antipodes Player merely to be played. I am not a software engineer but there seems to me to be some merit in this as opposed to MPD player which is a ‘pull’ app doing all the work on the Antipodes Player and pulling the music from a dumb Server app such as minimserver or minidlna. Again to my non expert eye this would seem to be less advantageous for SQ where I have always thought that more processing within the player can impact on SQ.

For non PGGB files I prefer Squeeze/Squeezelite as opposed to minidlna/MPD. An example of why is that I find the former to have a clearer and less muffled bass and lower mid range. I also find the top end smoother.

For PGGB I have suspended comparisons hoping that eventually on 3.1 we will get a later Squeeze/Squeezelite combination that can play PGGB.

Any thoughts? Am I barking up the wrong tree?


----------



## kennyb123

Triode User said:


> To the best of my knowledge, HQP and Squeeze are ‘push’ apps which do all the work within the server and then send the file to the Antipodes Player merely to be played. I am not a software engineer but there seems to me to be some merit in this as opposed to MPD player which is a ‘pull’ app doing all the work on the Antipodes Player and pulling the music from a dumb Server app such as minimserver or minidlna. Again to my non expert eye this would seem to be less advantageous for SQ where I have always thought that more processing within the player can impact on SQ.


Yes I believe that’s correct.  It would reduce activity on the player to use a push app.  Maybe that explains what I heard as far as the emphasis on the highs.

Squeeze was easily the best sounding option on my Zenith Mk3.  I’m eager to hear how it sounds once 16FS playback is possible.


----------



## Whazzzup

One week without my DX


----------



## Progisus

Triode User said:


> To the best of my knowledge, HQP and Squeeze are ‘push’ apps which do all the work within the server and then send the file to the Antipodes Player merely to be played. I am not a software engineer but there seems to me to be some merit in this as opposed to MPD player which is a ‘pull’ app doing all the work on the Antipodes Player and pulling the music from a dumb Server app such as minimserver or minidlna. Again to my non expert eye this would seem to be less advantageous for SQ where I have always thought that more processing within the player can impact on SQ.
> 
> For non PGGB files I prefer Squeeze/Squeezelite as opposed to minidlna/MPD. An example of why is that I find the former to have a clearer and less muffled bass and lower mid range. I also find the top end smoother.
> 
> ...


I am able to play pggb on lms/squeeze with the 3.1 update. I keep using roon/hqplayer for the convenience.


----------



## Triode User

Progisus said:


> I am able to play pggb on lms/squeeze with the 3.1 update. I keep using roon/hqplayer for the convenience.



Thanks for that info. Can I just clarify, I have LMS version 8.3.0 (ie the Squeeze server) and Squeezelite 1.8.7 (ie the player). Can yopu remind me if you have teh same versions from when you upgraded to 3.1?

Also, do I assume correctly that when you say that you can play PGGB files with teh Squeeze/Squeezelite on your machine that you are using Material for file selction?


----------



## Progisus

Triode User said:


> Thanks for that info. Can I just clarify, I have LMS version 8.3.0 (ie the Squeeze server) and Squeezelite 1.8.7 (ie the player). Can yopu remind me if you have teh same versions from when you upgraded to 3.1?
> 
> Also, do I assume correctly that when you say that you can play PGGB files with teh Squeeze/Squeezelite on your machine that you are using Material for file selction?


Yes those are the same versions for me. I have used material but usually iPeng. Both play the files. My files are stored on the EX with an ssd and an attached usb drive. On the odd occasion when they play at an incorrect speed, a restart of the player cures it. My files are 16fs 24b. I needed to add the path for the usb drive in the server settings on material. I could have used file manager and linked the usb to my library but this causes duplicate entries with my MPD. Let me know if I can help further.


----------



## Triode User

Progisus said:


> Yes those are the same versions for me. I have used material but usually iPeng. Both play the files. My files are stored on the EX with an ssd and an attached usb drive. On the odd occasion when they play at an incorrect speed, a restart of the player cures it. My files are 16fs 24b. I needed to add the path for the usb drive in the server settings on material. I could have used file manager and linked the usb to my library but this causes duplicate entries with my MPD. Let me know if I can help further.


OHHH! Very interesting. You have set me something to play with tonight!


----------



## Triode User

Triode User said:


> OHHH! Very interesting. You have set me something to play with tonight!


@Progisus  , well I have tried again every which way I can think of but still the PGGB files only play in a sort of ultra slow way. I was trying to play 705 and 768 24 bit WAV files. I have tried with USB from the K50 to Dave and also with the SRC-DX in the signal path so that I am connecting dual bnc to the Dave.

The Dave only shows 44.1 on its dial.

I wonder if it has anything to do with the way the K50 Server and Player communicate compared to just having everything on your EX?

I propose to start a request for help on the Antipodes Help Forum and will tag you in that and perhaps you can contribute and relay how it works for you with your Antipodes. It would be good to get this working on my K50.


----------



## kennyb123

Triode User said:


> The Dave only shows 44.1 on its dial.


Same here - and music plays ultra slow way


----------



## Progisus (Nov 11, 2021)

Triode User said:


> @Progisus  , well I have tried again every which way I can think of but still the PGGB files only play in a sort of ultra slow way. I was trying to play 705 and 768 24 bit WAV files. I have tried with USB from the K50 to Dave and also with the SRC-DX in the signal path so that I am connecting dual bnc to the Dave.
> 
> The Dave only shows 44.1 on its dial.
> 
> ...


That happened to me today. I went to the player dashboard, and restarted the squeeze player using the restart Button. It’s at the bottom of the gear button for the squeeze player.


----------



## Progisus

Here is a setting you could check and a visual of a song playing at 705k.


----------



## Triode User

Progisus said:


> Here is a setting you could check and a visual of a song playing at 705k.


Thanks but I’m having a thick moment, where is that menu?


----------



## Progisus

I am leaning toward separates if I do my server upgrade. Now... S40/S60 or CX? I wish the S40 had more ssd slots than 1.


----------



## Progisus

Triode User said:


> Thanks but I’m having a thick moment, where is that menu?


On material main menu click the upper dots on the right and go to player settings and scroll to Advanced or Extra.


----------



## kennyb123

Triode User said:


> Thanks but I’m having a thick moment, where is that menu?


Extra player settings then select Audio from the dropdown.  It was set to No Limit for me.


----------



## andrewd01

HouseElf said:


> It is a shame - the specs of the EX suggest it should be as good as the Zenith (which can be used as a Core and a Player) so should work fine without any heavy lifting with DSP/DSD conversion.


I suggest giving a go.  I think it will be fine unless you have a huge library.  I used my EX as a combined Roon core with HQ Player upscaling 16x with 1M taps and the EX didn’t break a sweat (~7% CPU load).  My library is 150Gb.


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> Here is a setting you could check and a visual of a song playing at 705k.


Still no go.  I wonder if your success is tied to you running both server and player on the same box.  Maybe it uses a different transport when it has to hit a remote endpoint.


----------



## Progisus

kennyb123 said:


> Still no go.  I wonder if your success is tied to you running both server and player on the same box.  Maybe it uses a different transport when it has to hit a remote endpoint.


Probably the same reason MPD plays differently for me. I will try mounting a network drive with pggb files on it and see how it goes.


----------



## andrewd01

Progisus said:


> I am leaning toward separates if I do my server upgrade. Now... S40/S60 or CX? I wish the S40 had more ssd slots than 1.


I have been seeing quite a few traded CX’s at dealers for bargain prices (<half retail with warranty).  That’s how I bought mine, which was kindly burned in for me by Clive.  

I think S40’s are too new to find on the used market and it is a more cluttered installation due to the external power supply.   There will also be the temptation to throw even more money at it to get the S60 power supply.  The S40/60 would probably sound better but adding the CX to an EX is already a large upgrade.  I also prefer the casework of the CX/EX, especially in silver, and they have the green leds


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> I will try mounting a network drive with pggb files on it and see how it goes


My PGGB files are local to the Squeeze server.  Yours are too.  You would need to move your Squeze player to another box to create a test case that mirrors ours.


----------



## HouseElf

andrewd01 said:


> I suggest giving a go.  I think it will be fine unless you have a huge library.  I used my EX as a combined Roon core with HQ Player upscaling 16x with 1M taps and the EX didn’t break a sweat (~7% CPU load).  My library is 150Gb.



My Library is around 700GB so maybe too much? I am not looking for the EX to do too much to be honest. Simply be able to run Roon and output to my DAC that can accept a maximum 24/96 signal in any case. I ran Roon on a QNAP NAS for a while and got frustrated with the fan noise which is why I was looking at a fanless design. Roon ran perfectly well for my needs on the NAS. I have asked Antipodes what processor they use in the EX but that haven't replied. I think they don't like revealing too much technical detail about their products.


----------



## Progisus

HouseElf said:


> My Library is around 700GB so maybe too much? I am not looking for the EX to do too much to be honest. Simply be able to run Roon and output to my DAC that can accept a maximum 24/96 signal in any case. I ran Roon on a QNAP NAS for a while and got frustrated with the fan noise which is why I was looking at a fanless design. Roon ran perfectly well for my needs on the NAS. I have asked Antipodes what processor they use in the EX but that haven't replied. I think they don't like revealing too much technical detail about their products.


The EX uses a Celeron processor. As I mentioned before I throw everything at my EX including hqplayer doing 768k upsampling and roon core. My library is almost a terrabyte without my pggb files. You will be fine.


----------



## Progisus




----------



## magnuska

andrewd01 said:


> I have been seeing quite a few traded CX’s at dealers for bargain prices (<half retail with warranty).  That’s how I bought mine, which was kindly burned in for me by Clive.
> 
> I think S40’s are too new to find on the used market and it is a more cluttered installation due to the external power supply.   There will also be the temptation to throw even more money at it to get the S60 power supply.  The S40/60 would probably sound better but adding the CX to an EX is already a large upgrade.  I also prefer the casework of the CX/EX, especially in silver, and they have the green leds


I have already offered him my S40 with 1tb SSD. So they exist and I´m a good guy...I think (Mark Cole on Antipodes knows me after I needed remote help once) I m not disaapointed with it at all I have a dual setup with a Lucas Domansky Pico as a Roon player. So my thinking was more of using the synergi and advances by having both server and player within the same brand, LDMS. The S40 on its own powered by a SMPS actually sounds more alive than the EX I previous had.


----------



## HouseElf

Progisus said:


>


Thank you for this. Gives me something to work on. The CPU is a pretty good one it would seem and competitive with many other server/players.


----------



## andrewd01

HouseElf said:


> My Library is around 700GB so maybe too much? I am not looking for the EX to do too much to be honest. Simply be able to run Roon and output to my DAC that can accept a maximum 24/96 signal in any case. I ran Roon on a QNAP NAS for a while and got frustrated with the fan noise which is why I was looking at a fanless design. Roon ran perfectly well for my needs on the NAS. I have asked Antipodes what processor they use in the EX but that haven't replied. I think they don't like revealing too much technical detail about their products.


Wise choice to move away from the Qnap.  I also have one and it sounds like a Cessna idling.  Definitely not what you want in the listening room.


----------



## Progisus

magnuska said:


> I have already offered him my S40 with 1tb SSD. So they exist and I´m a good guy...I think (Mark Cole on Antipodes knows me after I needed remote help once) I m not disaapointed with it at all I have a dual setup with a Lucas Domansky Pico as a Roon player. So my thinking was more of using the synergi and advances by having both server and player within the same brand, LDMS. The S40 on its own powered by a SMPS actually sounds more alive than the EX I previous had.


I don’t doubt you’re a good guy. I see you have it listed in a few places and have actually lowered the price. Thanks again for the offer and I hope you get a sale soon.


----------



## Presence (Nov 12, 2021)

Presence said:


> *Listening Observations - S60 replacing LPSs to Uptone EtherRegens from network to CX and between CX and EX*
> 
> Immediately out of the box, the SQ refinements of the S60 powering the two EtherRegens were* at least* equal in magnitude to what I experienced from the CX and EX PS upgrades.
> 
> ...


I've been thinking a lot about the impact of the S60 on the EtherRegens.
I have three of them, one of which I use for video streaming which, after powering *it *by the S60, produced richer color saturation, more definitive black levels and clearer center channel dialogue and surround sound spaciousness.
I then inserted that third EtherRegen in series with the existing EtherRegen in-line between the CX and EX. The S60 is only now at 36 hours break in but there is an even further level of holography and spaciousness in the sound. I am self-conscious as to the optics of appearing as a gushing enthusiast for writing this as I myself would be skeptical after reading what may appear as BS.

So this next inquiry is something of an open letter if anyone has any insights....

As a hypothesis from what I've read from Antipodes, the S60 is lower noise and faster transient current delivery [beneficial to digital circuits].
The Uptone EtherRegen from their website states there are (12) LT3045 and LT3042 voltage regulators inside the EtherRegen.
*If* the S60 has the same type R-Core transformer [albeit better design from original CX/EX] feeding [likely] a higher quality bridge rectifier which in turn feeds a much higher quality SMPS stage design [- a DC-DC converter?] instead of LPS voltage regulator, then feeds its 12Vdc output to another set of traditional voltage regulators in the EtherRegen, I speculate its the [relatively] high current voltage regulator output stage in the LPS that serves as a current transient bottleneck. Again, this is oversimplification, pure speculation and  spit balling.

I'm wondering if I took an S60-like power supply to my SingXer SU-2 DDI [USB-i2S] timed with 10Mhz reference, how much of an improvement *that* would make....
I'm starting to get excited about this.

Also, on the digital section of my Audio GD R8HE DAC.

I wish I knew of some off-the-shelf SMPS plug-in [the right DC-DC converter?] where I could use or tweak the existing LPS's in my digital components to add a significant SQ gain. Not knowing how a Ferrum Hypsos programmable hybrid Power Supply sound quality compares to the fixed 12V S60, one easy solution would be to use the Hypsos programmed to 5V and feed it to the 5V regulator output in the SingXer SU-2. I could wire a DC jack on the back of the SU-2 internally wired to the output of the internal 5V regulator as a straight forward solution. The 5V rail then feeds a number of 3.3V regulators to all the SU-2 circuitry.

On the DAC, there is also a 5V regulator to a bank of (8) or so 3.3V regulators. I suppose I could put a DC jack on the DAC chassis and replicate the same as the SU-2 proposed setup.
The open issue might be whether there is any logic to the turn-on sequence of the internal AC regenerator inside the DAC. It would be doable by a few different scenarios but all of them would be in Rube Goldberg territory.

Any constructive thoughts welcomed.

Rich


----------



## Presence (Nov 12, 2021)

After listening to Roon/RoonReady post Roon build 850 upgrade, it only took 30 seconds into my library version of Yes "Close To The Edge" [24/192] to flip back to Roon/Squeezelite....

*Amended Post*
I compared Squeeze Server to Roon Server both through SqueezeLite playing Mike Garson "The Oxnard Sessions Vol 2"  All Blues track.
The Sax level is hot and strains the transient delivery of my system. I find Roon Server is more open where Squeeze Server is more closed in on the treble and hides the less-than-stellar transient delivery of the sax on this recording
The sax transients are more revealed by Roon Server and I don't feel the transients in the more closed in Squeeze Server are necessarily better rendered
so I'm [for now] sticking with Roon Server / SqueezeLite.


----------



## magnuska

Progisus said:


> I don’t doubt you’re a good guy. I see you have it listed in a few places and have actually lowered the price. Thanks again for the offer and I hope you get a sale soon.


Thank you. Appreciate the support


----------



## Presence

magnuska said:


> Thank you. Appreciate the support


From the posts I've read in this thread, I get that this thread is composed of a standup group of individuals.


----------



## td19 (Nov 12, 2021)

Progisus said:


> Here is a setting you could check and a visual of a song playing at 705k.



I have not used PGGB, and and don't know much about upsampling WAV files, but I did create an upsampled copy of a WAV track:






... and was then able to play it, without changing any settings in Squeeze:





This is what I see in the Player Audio Diagnostics screen:





This was done using a CX, USB out to an iFi Black DSD, but I cannot think of a reason why a K50 would behave differently.


----------



## Progisus

td19 said:


> I have not used PGGB, and and don't know much about upsampling WAV files, but I did create an upsampled copy of a WAV track:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


With CX, I assume the server, player, file and usb are all local to the CX. @kennyb123 feels that with the K30,50 the problem may lie with the player and server being on different computers.


----------



## td19

Progisus said:


> With CX, I assume the server, player, file and usb are all local to the CX. @kennyb123 feels that with the K30,50 the problem may lie with the player and server being on different computers.


Yes, everything local to the CX. So I changed to using Squeezelite on the EX .... and got intermittent white noise type sound, and this in Audio Diagnostics:





I then enabled the C3PO plugin for the EX player:





... and now I got sound:





C-3PO was not enabled on the CX Squeezelite player.

I don't know the reason for the different behaviour, will try some more experimenting.


----------



## kennyb123

td19 said:


> C-3PO was not enabled on the CX Squeezelite player.
> 
> I don't know the reason for the different behaviour, will try some more experimenting.


That did it.  I'm playing 16FS now.  Thanks!


----------



## kennyb123

Squeeze is blowing my mind with PGGB-processed tracks.  Transient speed seems to be the best I've heard amongst the three (MPD, HQP, Squeeze). It also strikes me as potentially being the most transparent of the bunch.  These are just early impressions so let's see what additional listening reveals.


----------



## Progisus

kennyb123 said:


> Squeeze is blowing my mind with PGGB-processed tracks.  Transient speed seems to be the best I've heard amongst the three (MPD, HQP, Squeeze). It also strikes me as potentially being the most transparent of the bunch.  These are just early impressions so let's see what additional listening reveals.


Now if someone can figure out MPD direct play for the K series you might even decide MPD is the winner. Enjoy.


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> Now if someone can figure out MPD direct play for the K series you might even decide MPD is the winner. Enjoy.


We are so lucky to have three great-sounding options.


----------



## Presence

SqueezeLite is downsampling my 352.8 PGGB file to 176.4. I played the file via RoonReady and it played at 352.8.
Do you need to be on MySqueezebox.com to access the right options?
When I was working with Mark Cole to get Squeeze to work I got steered away from mysqueezebox.com and was advised to only use the Squeeze dashboard on the EX.


----------



## Presence

*EtherRegen further experimentation*

After watching a movie streamed through three EtherRegens in series this evening, I decided to redeploy the EtherRegen from network to CX to in series with the other two EtherRegens between CX and EX. I also use the Baaske MI 1005 Network Isolators on every Ethernet cable. 
I noticed that each instrument was even more three dimensional and more natural. Additionally the "hot" sax I complained about in Mike Garson's recording of All Blues was much less edgy. Out of Phase instruments like the drum set on Led Zeppelin's "Since I've Been Loving You" appearing out to 0 degrees [far right] approaches bowling alley depth rather than being more flat. The transient delivery still needs more work.
Before I possibly get tomatoed by the group for putting three EtherRegens in series, I'd like to acknowledge, "What a crappy way to put a system together..."

If anyone is in Connecticut, feel free to PM me if you'd like to take a listen....

Rich M


----------



## kennyb123

td19 said:


> C-3PO was not enabled on the CX Squeezelite player.
> 
> I don't know the reason for the different behaviour, will try some more experimenting.


It appears that C-3PO aims to enable upscaling.  Is there a way to pass 705.6/768 files without it attempting to do that?

Please let me know if you'd like me to share files with you to assist in your experimenting.  Your assistance is much appreciated.


----------



## kennyb123

Presence said:


> Before I possibly get tomatoed by the group for putting three EtherRegens in series, I'd like to acknowledge, "What a crappy way to put a system together..."


There seems to be something special about the use of successive switches.  Gosh I hope I never go that far.


----------



## Triode User

@td19 If you were in the UK I would come over and give you a big hug for your advice!! You are a star!!

For anyone with a K50 on the K50 I have enabled the C-3PO plugin on the Server. It is to be accessed through the Server Settings in Material. For me it was listed in the Inactive Plugins. After selecting and Saving I did a hard restart of the K50. Now I have a 705kHz file playing perfectly happily through Squeeze Server and Squeezelite Player (no Roon). It is 6am here and the rest of the house is still asleep so SQ assessment will have to wait until later.


----------



## Presence

Thank you for pointing out the location of C-3P0 Transcoder Helper.
When I save the Transcoder Helper configuration the file plays but there is no sound.
If I uncheck the option and save I continue to get silence and have to reinstall Squeeze and it then plays the file [w/o Transcoder Helper]
The menu on my CX looks like this


----------



## kennyb123

Presence said:


> The menu on my CX looks like this



Make sure it’s enabled on this page.


----------



## Triode User

Presence said:


> Thank you for pointing out the location of C-3P0 Transcoder Helper.
> When I save the Transcoder Helper configuration the file plays but there is no sound.
> If I uncheck the option and save I continue to get silence and have to reinstall Squeeze and it then plays the file [w/o Transcoder Helper]
> The menu on my CX looks like this


Do you now see C-3P0 listed in the list of ‘Active’ plugins? If not you may need to restart your Antipodes?


----------



## Presence

Thank you again Kennyb123 and Triode User for your support.
By pure luck I found that my three 44.1/16 AAIF files and two 352.8 WAV files play with sound but my FLAC files only appear to play with no sound.
Here are some screen shots including lastly, a C-P30 Transcoding screen from the Player Settings -










From the Player Settings -

Upper scroll Print Screen





Middle scroll screen shot


----------



## Triode User

Triode User said:


> Do you now see C-3P0 listed in the list of ‘Active’ plugins? If not you may need to restart your Antipodes?


Hmmn, well ive been out all day and am just back. There is a bit of a snag. It seems to be upsampling to 16FS even when fed redbook.  We have guests over and I’m on the road from 6am for most of the day so i might not get to investigate until later on Sunday.


----------



## Presence

Triode User said:


> Hmmn, well ive been out all day and am just back. There is a bit of a snag. It seems to be upsampling to 16FS even when fed redbook.  We have guests over and I’m on the road from 6am for most of the day so i might not get to investigate until later on Sunday.


No worries my friend. I appreciate your response. I have only gotten my DAC to play up to 352.8 WAV and in pre 846/850 build when Roon had DSP Transcoding it played up to 384. If in fact Squeeze is upsampling FLAC files to 16FS then that would be it. I'm in no rush to get this working so please enjoy your weekend


----------



## kennyb123

Triode User said:


> It seems to be upsampling to 16FS even when fed redbook.


+1


----------



## Presence

Got it!
Unchecked 16FS and it's playing. Thanks guys.


----------



## Triode User

Presence said:


> Got it!
> Unchecked 16FS and it's playing. Thanks guys.


I dont get that interface. This is what i get.


----------



## td19

kennyb123 said:


> It appears that C-3PO aims to enable upscaling.  Is there a way to pass 705.6/768 files without it attempting to do that?
> 
> Please let me know if you'd like me to share files with you to assist in your experimenting.  Your assistance is much appreciated.


I don't know a great deal about C-3PO, and especially why it must be enabled for a remote Squeezelite player but not for a local one. However I have found that my 768 track will play with these C-3PO .wav settings:





So possibly it only resamples if it needs to.


----------



## Triode User (Nov 13, 2021)

td19 said:


> I don't know a great deal about C-3PO, and especially why it must be enabled for a remote Squeezelite player but not for a local one. However I have found that my 768 track will play with these C-3PO .wav settings:
> 
> 
> 
> So possibly it only resamples if it needs to.


What is strange is that we all seem to have different settings interfaces. Does anyone have any success with the K50. At the moment the top of the range model seems to have the least success.


----------



## td19

Triode User said:


> What is strange is that we all seem to have different settings interfaces.


I reverted to the Default skin ... here is the same in Material:


----------



## kennyb123

td19 said:


> So possibly it only resamples if it needs to.


It sure does sound transparent so that may very well be the case. I would love to see the CPU utilization.


----------



## td19

kennyb123 said:


> It sure does sound transparent so that may very well be the case. I would love to see the CPU utilization.






IP Address/app_status.php


----------



## Progisus

I read some posts from the plugin developer and it seems it converts and resamples so as to handle troublesome formats. It was not totally clear to me and the explanations required quite a bit of previous squeeze server command line experience. Hopefully someone can dumb it down for us.


----------



## frankensmurf

Progisus said:


> I read some posts from the plugin developer and it seems it converts and resamples so as to handle troublesome formats. It was not totally clear to me and the explanations required quite a bit of previous squeeze server command line experience. Hopefully someone can dumb it down for us.



So bear with me, gents (is this really an all-male forum?), I've just gotten HQP working for the first time on CX / EX. I've compared to Roon > Roon Ready and Roon > SqueezePlayer. Where are all these Squeeze plug-ins and settings? Is this in Squeeze Server? 

I'll reserve my impressions of Roon Ready vs SqueezePlayer vs HQP NAA (with Roon Core as a constant) until I've sorted out the basics, and probably until I've got my PSA DS back.


----------



## kennyb123

td19 said:


> IP Address/app_status.php



Thanks for sharing that!  

Top is when playing my 16FS files, bottom is when scaling 44.1K files to 16FS.


----------



## Triode User

@kennyb123 @td19  etc, i know it is possible to use squeeze (LMS) + Squeezelite to play 705/768 wav files and also lower resolutions without  upsampling because when i had an innuos Nuno did an online session with me and tweaked the squeezelite settings to enable this.

it cant be beyond antipodes to do the same.


----------



## td19

Triode User said:


> @kennyb123 @td19  etc, i know it is possible to use squeeze (LMS) + Squeezelite to play 705/768 wav files and also lower resolutions without  upsampling because when i had an innuos Nuno did an online session with me and tweaked the squeezelite settings to enable this.
> 
> it cant be beyond antipodes to do the same.


I think it is more a question of how Squeezebox Server and Squeezelite interact. As suggested initially it definitely seems to behave differently when the server and Squeezelite are running on the same server as opposed to the Squeeze server on one server and Squeezelite on a different one. I noted earlier that the Squeezelite on the CX, where Squeeze was running, did not need to have C-3PO enabled i.e. no resampling/conversion, whereas Squeezelite on the EX did.

Also, turning off conversion and upsampling on the C-3PO-enabled EX Squeezelite did not affect playback; it still played at the 768 rate.

It may be related to the comments here by the C-3PO author, at the Slim Devices website:





It might be worth contacting him for clarification about 'local' vs 'remote' Squeezelite.

Also, you could ask Mark Cole to pass the question on to his tech colleague in Colorado who does know a fair bit about Squeezelite and how to configure it.


----------



## Triode User (Nov 14, 2021)

@td19 thanks. This rings some bells with what Nuno did and I recollect he had to alter Squeezelite to get it to play 705/768 wav files by telling it what to look at to get the correct file information otherise Squeezelite thought that it was, for example, a 44.1 file despite it actually being a 705 file.

i will try mark cole to see if he can pursue it.


----------



## frankensmurf

frankensmurf said:


> ...I've just gotten HQP working for the first time on CX / EX. I've compared to Roon > Roon Ready and Roon > SqueezePlayer...


Interesting stuff. I am currently playing with HQP settings with a Chord TT2, which is certainly designed with upsampling in mind, and in a fairly ruthlessly-revealing current setup (particularly with some new AQ Wind XLRs) appears to 'need' it. However it is responding very nicely to upsampling everything to DSD. 

On my CX, I can upsample everything (i.e. local redbook files, Qobuz 24/96 streams) to DSD 128 nicely. When I try DSD256 two of the CX cores are saturated and playback stops regularly. Is this consistent with others' experience? (see CPU and settings below)

Has anyone here experimented with anything higher? Does anyone know offhand the performance ceiling (in terms of SDM oversampling) or the processor in the CX vs K50 vs S40? Perhaps I could go to CX core > S40 HQP > EX NAA > P2 > ...

If I were going in this direction (for instance I put some thought in about trying the Holo Audio May DAC, which accepts up to DSD1024 and PCM 1.536) I feel I would end up with a custom-build PC with a quite high-end processor (basically a somewhat specialized quiet Gaming PC) and graphics card(s) for HQP CUDA offloading. For me it begs a couple of questions: if I'm offloading HQP super duties to a separate box, which certainly will not have sophisticated power supplies and other audio-related tweaking like the Antipodes boxes, what is the CX for? I already have it on a separate power circuit, and separated from the EX by 2 EtherRegens (not as many as SOME people, I know). I've always thought that, in the presence of EtherRegens (or an Innuos PhoenixNet or whatever), my money would be optimally spent on a NUC for Roon ROCK, an optimized upsampling machine (if you're going to do it), and max $$$ saved for and S30/S20/S60 rendering side, including ethernet filtration between it and everything else.


The irony, of course, is that as soon as I get my DAC back I will likely lose interest in all this super-high oversampling in sw as the DAC is already doing it.  : D    (There is some talk on the PS Audio forums of the benefits of upsampling PCM to DXD, the highest PCM rate the DS will accept..)

But I will absolutely be using HQP as my renderer. I bought the license this morning.




CX load at DSD 128 (from 24/96 qobuz)




CX Load at DSD 256 (from redbook)




HQP settings (for both above, less SDM Rate Limit)


----------



## Progisus

frankensmurf said:


> Interesting stuff. I am currently playing with HQP settings with a Chord TT2, which is certainly designed with upsampling in mind, and in a fairly ruthlessly-revealing current setup (particularly with some new AQ Wind XLRs) appears to 'need' it. However it is responding very nicely to upsampling everything to DSD.
> 
> On my CX, I can upsample everything (i.e. local redbook files, Qobuz 24/96 streams) to DSD 128 nicely. When I try DSD256 two of the CX cores are saturated and playback stops regularly. Is this consistent with others' experience? (see CPU and settings below)
> 
> ...


You could try checking auto rate family and unchecking short buffer to see if it lowers the cpu drain.


----------



## frankensmurf

Progisus said:


> You could try checking auto rate family and unchecking short buffer to see if it lowers the cpu drain.


Thanks.. I tried both and while there are variations in the per-thread usage number, neither resulted in sustainable DSD256 playback. (see below)

I don't understand 'Auto-rate family' -- assuming Auto rate family = true, SDM Bit rate = Auto and SDM Rate Limit = 6,144,000, does HQP upsample n*44.1khz material to 5,644,800 (44.1k*128) and n*48khz material to 6,144,000 (48k*128)?  If Auto rate family = false then what? 

In practice, checking 'Auto rate family' results in very finicky behaviour, where, depending on SDM rate limit selected, some formats will play and others won't.

Unfortunately both Roon and my DAC just say 'DSD 128'. Is there somewhere I can view the specific DSD output rate? 




11-14 baseline DSD 128:




uncheck short buffer, 256: 11,289,600.  (interruptions in playback)




check Auto Rate Family, 256: 11,289,600.  (interruptions in playback)


----------



## kennyb123

frankensmurf said:


> I am currently playing with HQP settings with a Chord TT2, which is certainly designed with upsampling in mind, and in a fairly ruthlessly-revealing current setup (particularly with some new AQ Wind XLRs) appears to 'need' it. However it is responding very nicely to upsampling everything to DSD.



The TT2 really excels with PCM upsampling.  The nice thing about sending it music scaled to 16FS is that its own filter will just step aside.  I am pretty sure DSD will be sent through the filter regardless of the rate.


----------



## kennyb123 (Nov 14, 2021)

frankensmurf said:


> I don't understand 'Auto-rate family


There are two fundamental sample rates:  44.1k and 48k. 

It‘s best to upscale by an even number else there will be decimation.  Thus with auto-rate family, a 44.1K file will be scaled to 2, 4, 8 or 16x that rate (depending on the DAC).  So 88.2, 176.4, 352.8, 705.6.  This is how it applies to PCM.  I am not sure how it works with DSD.


----------



## td19

Triode User said:


> @kennyb123 @td19  etc, i know it is possible to use squeeze (LMS) + Squeezelite to play 705/768 wav files and also lower resolutions without  upsampling because when i had an innuos Nuno did an online session with me and tweaked the squeezelite settings to enable this.
> 
> it cant be beyond antipodes to do the same.


I think the Squeezelite -W command line option deals with the issue but don't know if it is applicable to, or compatible with, the Squeezelite version in Antipodes 3.1.


----------



## kennyb123

@td19 @Triode User 

I just came across this:  https://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?105309-C-3PO-plugin-a-trnscoding-helper.  Sharing ICYMI.

This is good to know:  "Please remmber that C-3PO is not adding any functionality or capability to LMS, other than a better integrated interface over File type conversions and custom-convert.conf file, but everything it does was already here before.

I'm feeling better about this now.  My guess is that this is enabling the player to receive the actual sample rate when the file is upsampled.  The player can't know whether or not the server upsampled these so it needs a helper even if the files were upsampled using an external process.  I think as long as we ensure that the player isn't asking for these files to be resampled, these files should be passed along just fine.


----------



## Triode User

td19 said:


> I think the Squeezelite -W command line option deals with the issue but don't know if it is applicable to, or compatible with, the Squeezelite version in Antipodes 3.1.


@td19 and @kennyb123 I was away from my hifi all weekend (playing with horses and other outdoor stuff) but now I am back indoors I have been going through the settings options on Squeeze player and realise there is an Extra Player Settings which I had not previously found or accessed. This has given me access to the C-3PO settings you guys have been using. I now have Squeeze Server and Squeeze Player selected on the K50 and it is passing through all frequencies un upsampled all the way from 44.1 to 768.

It sounds wonderful with the PGGB offline upsampled 705 and 768 files. I always knew it sounded best for the less than 16FS files but now I can get that SQ with the 16FS as well.

I am just going through the settings options and basically trying to set everything to do nothing with the file apart from pass it through. Perhaps when the dust has settled on this exercise we can share settings to make sure the correct ones are being used.

Happy Days (I hope).


----------



## kennyb123

Triode User said:


> It sounds wonderful with the PGGB offline upsampled 705 and 768 files. I always knew it sounded best for the less than 16FS files but now I can get that SQ with the 16FS as well.


Squeeze is absolutely the best I've heard yet with my PGGB files.


----------



## kennyb123

Is it my imagination or is there a slight sonic penalty from having “enable seek” checked.  Without this, you can’t skip ahead to a point earlier or later in the currently playing track.


----------



## Triode User

kennyb123 said:


> Is it my imagination or is there a slight sonic penalty from having “enable seek” checked.  Without this, you can’t skip ahead to a point earlier or later in the currently playing track.


I don't know. I can have a play later but in any case, I show the options I have ticked on mine which is different to yours.


----------



## seeteeyou

Maybe that could also give us 32FS for one of those R2R DACs such as Denafrips?

https://github.com/ralph-irving/squeezelite/commit/46a16ff492f0bd6508f7bb0c09d0379cee3b07e2


> Add absurd sample rates for DSD1024 support.



However, the existing source code already got the numbers required for 16FS as shown below

https://github.com/marcoc1712/squeezelite-R2/blob/Release/pcm.c#L54

```
static u32_t sample_rates[] = {
        11025, 22050, 32000, 44100, 48000, 8000, 12000, 16000, 24000, 96000, 88200, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000, 705600, 768000
};
```
https://github.com/marcoc1712/squeezelite-R2/blob/Release/squeezelite.h#L531

```
#define MAX_SUPPORTED_SAMPLERATES 18
#define TEST_RATES = { 768000, 705600, 384000, 352800, 192000, 176400, 96000, 88200, 48000, 44100, 32000, 24000, 22500, 16000, 12000, 11025, 8000, 0 }
```


Nuno did get 16FS working temporarily but unfortunately that didn't last very long

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/...ew-of-math-and-magic/page/33/#comment-1149117


> Well the Innuos 2.0.4 app can play up to PGGB 768 kHz files but the 2.0.5 update will temporarily lose this feature (see the explanation from Innuos below). Innuos need to do some work before reintroducing the ability to play up to 768 kHz files and they are prioritising the requests for features and debugging depending on how many people contact them about each bug or feature.



DSD1024 should be fine with Ralph Irving's version of Squeezelite, though not sure about PCM @ 16FS and 32FS yet.


BTW, support for WavPack should be added to LMS a very long time ago and I guess that's still working with the latest version 8.3.0?

https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,58073.msg552250.html#msg552250
https://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?38623-Adding-WavPack-support-to-SlimServer


----------



## Triode User (Nov 15, 2021)

seeteeyou said:


> Nuno did get 16FS working temporarily but unfortunately that didn't last very long


That was my post on AS that you quoted. The last time I talked to him, a while ago now,  they were still looking to reintoduce it, perhaps as a user selectable option from within the Innuos app. However my interest in that has waned since the K50 became my streamer of choice.


----------



## seeteeyou

FYI - if Mark were actually interested in supporting DSD1024 as well as PCM @ 32FS down the road, maybe it's just a matter of modifying quite a few files as shown below

https://github.com/blue777/NanoPi-N...c9adf65#diff-20b69ed4c03bb7900580c3cc2c8e1deb
https://qiita.com/blue-7/items/d643cc9e441ca594a01e

Ralph Irving already got that handled for his own version of Squeezelite, presumably we don't really need to touch LMS then?


----------



## kennyb123

Triode User said:


> I show the options I have ticked on mine which is different to yours.


Thanks for sharing your settings.  I have only changed those related to WAV as I was focused only on PGGB.  At present, I have LMS only scanning the folder in which my PGGB files are stored.  

Next step is to figure out the ideal Roon configuration for playing everything else.  



seeteeyou said:


> BTW, support for WavPack should be added to LMS a very long time ago and I guess that's still working with the latest version 8.3.0?



Interesting - I will have to give that a try.


----------



## Triode User

kennyb123 said:


> Thanks for sharing your settings. I have only changed those related to WAV as I was focused only on PGGB. At present, I have LMS only scanning the folder in which my PGGB files are stored.
> 
> Next step is to figure out the ideal Roon configuration for playing everything else.


I will try to remember to create a multipage pdf with all my settings so we can compare between us. 

On Roon, I want to try it again now we have a new version but I suspect I will just stick to the Squeeze / Squeezelite for non PGGB files and also Qobuz, Radio Paradise etc.


----------



## Triode User

kennyb123 said:


> Is it my imagination or is there a slight sonic penalty from having “enable seek” checked.  Without this, you can’t skip ahead to a point earlier or later in the currently playing track.


Hi Kenny, just returning to your shared screen shot, why would one want to have Resample or Additional Effects ticked? All we want the transcoder to do is to correctly recognise the PGGB 16FS frequency and pass through/play the file correctly


----------



## kennyb123

Triode User said:


> why would one want to have Resample or Additional Effects ticked? All we want the transcoder to do is to correctly recognise the PGGB 16FS frequency and pass through/play the file correctly


Being able to play the tracks seemed to require that Additional Effects be checked.  And we would want Resampled unchecked for PGGB'd tracks.


----------



## Presence (Nov 16, 2021)

*Nightly Cache Delete*

Is my understanding correct that part of the [overnight] auto updates for 3.1 include clearing the server cache ?
If so, has anyone confirmed whether this is an up and running feature?
Yesterday I cleared what I recall was 732M and today I show 697M.
I noticed the buffer utilization went from 532M to 697M in a matter of minutes but it seems to hover around 530M.
The sound does appear to freshen up a bit when I manually clear the [Roon Server] cache.


----------



## Presence

*Ferrum Hypsos vs S60*

I may be taking delivery of a Ferrum Hypsos programmable "hybrid" power supply by this weekend.
I'll be comparing it to the outstanding Antipodes S60 at the S60s native 12V fixed output voltage into a load of the Uptone EtherRegen timed from 10Mhz reference.

Assuming the Hypsos won't disappoint, I'm looking to bypass the LPS integral to my SingXer SU-2 USB to i2S [as I utilize it] timed from 10Mhz reference.
I'll post my findings hopefully early next week.


----------



## Triode User

Presence said:


> *Nightly Cache Delete*
> 
> Is my understanding correct that part of the [overnight] auto updates for 3.1 include clearing the server cache ?
> If so, has anyone confirmed whether this is an up and running feature?
> ...


🤣 Ditch Roon altogether and get an even better sound! 🤣


----------



## Triode User

kennyb123 said:


> Being able to play the tracks seemed to require that Additional Effects be checked.


Not for me. Seems to work and play tracks fine with Additional Effects unchecked.

The thing I am struggling with is being able to browse with Folders in Material. I have enabled that option and can do it with iPeng but not with Material.


----------



## Presence

Triode User said:


> 🤣 Ditch Roon altogether and get an even better sound! 🤣


I have an itch to try MPD but procrastinate due to being a little intimidated about setting it up. I'll get to it eventually.
I tried Squeeze/SqueezeLite and felt it was rolled off compared to Roon and that it only served to mask the issues I hear with Roon.
Roon/SqueezeLite was less rolled off but I missed the shimmer of cymbals so for the moment, I am back to Roon Server/Roon Player


----------



## Progisus

Playing 768 without 3CPO. 







My little EX running roon core, hqplayer ( no upsampling) and playing 768 file. I still can’t decide on my server upgrade. I would most likely go K40 if it hd not been taken out of production. Mark says a new version is coming soon.


----------



## Triode User

Presence said:


> I have an itch to try MPD but procrastinate due to being a little intimidated about setting it up. I'll get to it eventually.
> I tried Squeeze/SqueezeLite and felt it was rolled off compared to Roon and that it only served to mask the issues I hear with Roon.
> Roon/SqueezeLite was less rolled off but I missed the shimmer of cymbals so for the moment, I am back to Roon Server/Roon Player


Maybe you need a decent DAC. 🤣 😜

MPD is a doddle to set up on the K50 but cant speak about setting it up on the CX + EX. Squueze/squeezelite definitely sounds better for me though and no roll off audible with it either. I just have the feeling in the back of my mind that the ‘push’ method of playing files with the Squeeze server is inherently better than the ‘pull’ way of doing it with MPD that might involve extra processing on the Player board.

I will try Roon again but all my previous experiences have been much the worst sound quality Whether with Roon Server/Roon Player or whether using the Squeezelite player with Roon Server.


----------



## kennyb123

Presence said:


> *Nightly Cache Delete*
> 
> Is my understanding correct that part of the [overnight] auto updates for 3.1 include clearing the server cache ?
> If so, has anyone confirmed whether this is an up and running feature?
> ...


Are you sure that it was that particular cache that they said they'd clear?  A cache exists to help with performance but it can get stale or grow too large over time.


----------



## Triode User

Progisus said:


> Playing 768 without 3CPO.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


After your post just to see what happened I disabled the C-3PO plugin on the Squeeze Server and the Antipodes K50 instantly couldn’t play 705 or 768 files through Squeeze + Squeezelite. The Dave was reporting receiving 44.1 instead of the correct frequency and there was just a grumbling low frequency sound through the speakers. Having now reinstalled the C-3PO plugin on the server all is again playing fine through through Squeeze + Squeezelite.


----------



## kennyb123

Triode User said:


> Seems to work and play tracks fine with Additional Effects unchecked.


Not for me.  I will either get no sound or that really slow motion sound - and my DAC shows 44.1K.


----------



## kennyb123

Presence said:


> I tried Squeeze/SqueezeLite and felt it was rolled off compared to Roon and that it only served to mask the issues I hear with Roon.


The issues I hear with Roon vanish with Squeeze/SqueezeLite.  It makes it difficult to go back to listening to Roon.


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> Playing 768 without 3CPO.


I think things will change for you when you go two-tier with Squeeze… and I mean that positively.  The very lightweight Squeezelite player strikes me as the lowest latency player.  Stops and starts of transients are better portrayed.  It‘s also quieter with a greater sense of ease.  



Progisus said:


> I still can’t decide on my server upgrade. I would most likely go K40 if it hd not been taken out of production. Mark says a new version is coming soon.


Trade in your EX towards a K30.  Interesting about the K40.


----------



## Presence (Nov 16, 2021)

kennyb123 said:


> Are you sure that it was that particular cache that they said they'd clear?  A cache exists to help with performance but it can get stale or grow too large over time.


Mark Cole clarified that an auto-nighttime  system cache clearing will be in a subsequent release so the server doesn't have to be rebooted to accomplish this now.
The Roon Application cache can be manually cleared and I mistakenly conflated the two.


----------



## Progisus

I posted this over on Antipodes forum but I may get more traction here,

I have a 2tb ssd in my EX running 3.1. Can I simply power down the EX, remove drive and then place it in new K series without losing data?


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> I have a 2tb ssd in my EX running 3.1. Can I simply power down the EX, remove drive and then place it in new K series without losing data?


New K series, eh?

The answer should be yes as both are running the same OS.  The drive had been formatted for Linux so it should pop right in.


----------



## Progisus

kennyb123 said:


> New K series, eh?
> 
> The answer should be yes as both are running the same OS.  The drive had been formatted for Linux so it should pop right in.


You guessed it and thanks for your suggestions. I have ordered a K30 and would like to order and prep a 4tb or 8tb ssd with my roon and pggb library. I went with the K30 as I don’t feel I would use the reclocked outputs. Famous last words. I do like the one box solution but may still put it in my computer rack and direct stream to the EX. Hopefully it arrives in a week out here on the frozen prairie. (eh…haha).


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> You guessed it and thanks for your suggestions. I have ordered a K30 and would like to order and prep a 4tb or 8tb ssd with my roon and pggb library. I went with the K30 as I don’t feel I would use the reclocked outputs. Famous last words. I do like the one box solution but may still put it in my computer rack and direct stream to the EX. Hopefully it arrives in a week out here on the frozen prairie. (eh…haha).


Woo hoo!  I think you will be delighted with it.  Looking forward to hearing what you think.  Silver or black?


----------



## Progisus

kennyb123 said:


> Woo hoo!  I think you will be delighted with it.  Looking forward to hearing what you think.  Silver or black?


I saw your silver one in your rack and really liked it but I went with black. I see you also moved from Chord to Gustard. How do you find that?


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> I saw your silver one in your rack and really liked it but I went with black. I see you also moved from Chord to Gustard. How do you find that?


The K30 looks stunning in black as well.  Good move.  

The Gustard was a significant step up from the TT2, which is astonishing given the price difference.  PGGB is a factor in this as I run the Gustard in NOS mode.  It‘s not truly non-oversampling but it lets the magic come through.  Likewise for scaling with HQPlayer for everything else.  

As a friend described it, the real brilliance of Chord‘s DACs is what happens in the FPGA.  But if you take that away you’re left with nothing too special.  The power supplies Chord uses are cheap off the shelf SMPSs whereas the Gustard has a built-in over-specified pair of linear supplies with one driving the analog stage and the other driving the digital stage.  The Chord DACs also use an older Amenaro USB input that many are now bypassing with the SRC-DX because it has lower latency.  The Gustard has the XMOS USB that is regarded by some as one of the best.  And lastly, the output stage on Chord DACs is a opamp.  High end products often eschew these in favor of discrete circuits as these are said to sound better.  I get why Rob wants to keep things simple as he feels transparency suffers the more components a circuit has to pass through.  The Gustard may give up a very slight amount of transparency but the gains are worth it.  Music gains fuller weight, bloom, and color.  Dynamics are greatly improved as well.  After inserting the Gustard, I never went back to the TT2 for another listen.  The improvements were too profound.

But it gets better.  I added a REF10 clock as the Gustard can accept a 10 MHz reference clock.  This brought a holy crap level of improvement.  There’s an excellent review of the REF10 on Audio Bacon.  Jay perfectly described the improvement the clock brought.  And since I was able to also apply a clock to my EtherRegen, things got even better.

The best part of it was that selling the TT2 covered the cost of a new Gustard X26pro plus a used REF10.  The only out of pocket additional cost was for a Shunyata clock cable.  This was probably the most significant upgrade yet and I only spent about $700 to get it.


----------



## cczero17

Presence said:


> I have an itch to try MPD but procrastinate due to being a little intimidated about setting it up. I'll get to it eventually.
> I tried Squeeze/SqueezeLite and felt it was rolled off compared to Roon and that it only served to mask the issues I hear with Roon.
> Roon/SqueezeLite was less rolled off but I missed the shimmer of cymbals so for the moment, I am back to Roon Server/Roon Player


Same here. Much of anything beyond Hqplayer seems over my head. There seems to be so many options and wouldn't know where to start.

I feel there needs to be sticky of all the different options, what's required to use those options and an idiot's guide on how to set them up 👍😁


----------



## Progisus

kennyb123 said:


> The K30 looks stunning in black as well.  Good move.
> 
> The Gustard was a significant step up from the TT2, which is astonishing given the price difference.  PGGB is a factor in this as I run the Gustard in NOS mode.  It‘s not truly non-oversampling but it lets the magic come through.  Likewise for scaling with HQPlayer for everything else.
> 
> ...


You’ve given me food for thought. Gutsy move!


----------



## Triode User

Progisus said:


> You’ve given me food for thought. Gutsy move!


Yeah, it is good feedback from @kennyb123  and it makes me want to try one myself. 

On the other hand the Holo May was hailed as a Dave and Dave + Mscaler busting DAC and yet when I got one it was no such thing and I couldn’t wait to sell it on.


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> You’ve given me food for thought. Gutsy move!


Not too gutsy given Amazon Prime and free returns.  The Amazon seller Aosihida HiFi-US gave me excellent support.


----------



## kennyb123

Triode User said:


> Yeah, it is good feedback from @kennyb123 and it makes me want to try one myself.
> 
> On the other hand the Holo May was hailed as a Dave and Dave + Mscaler busting DAC and yet when I got one it was no such thing and I couldn’t wait to sell it on.



The stock DAVE remains a killer DAC.  You've taken yours to an level that likely has few competitors.

I have no idea where a Gustard X26pro will land relative to a stock DAVE.  I'm not even thinking about upgrading beyond what I have now.  

I have to admit I'm a bit disappointed that my TT2 didn't do better again the Gustard.  It's a $5995 DAC and was even power by a Farad Super3.


----------



## andrewd01

The killer feature of the TT2 is the high quality headphone output which avoids the clutter of another box.
I also like the coloured volume ball .

I have had to downsize my main system in recent years, but would like to try stuff like the Gustard, external clock, monoblocks etc at some time in the future.


----------



## Presence (Nov 24, 2021)

*Ferrum Hypsos Hybrid Power Supply - 1st Impressions*

A bit off-thread, but I think still relevant as I decided to call an audible to postpone the comparison of the Hypsos and the S60 at 12V powering the EtherRegens between the CX and EX.
Given that a fair and meaningful comparison requires both units being run in for at least 200 hours, I decided to first check the Hypsos' impact on my SingXer SU-2 DDI       [USB to i2S in my setup] as this was a mod that was fairly easy to set up.
As with other pieces of gear, I tried bypassing the SU-2's internal LPS with a larger, brute force LPS - shielded [4X size] toroid, fast recovery diodes and oversized Mundorf Caps and Belleson regulator and heard no significant improvements.

Over the first hour, first impression gains from the Hypsos were similar to when I added the Mutec Ref10 120 10Mhz clock to the EtherRegens and later, to the SU-2 DDI, as well as the addition of the Innuous Phoenix USB Regen - but in addition to the 15% expansion of soundstage after each upgrade, with the Hypsos powering the SU-2 DDI there was a more meaningful and cumulative gain in palpability along with further detail to each 3-D image.
Delicate shimmering cymbal work once obscured in the back of the soundstage was clearly revealed, instruments/voices within and outside the bounds of the speakers radiated clearly from their own point of origin making the rendition prior to the Hypsos sound comparatively vague by an appreciable margin.

On the one hand this is well received and on the other, this implies more band aids, mods and cost. I have to wonder what happens if I try this on the Innuous Phoenix and the digital section of my Audio GD DAC  [Triode User - I beat you to it!].
I cringe at the thought of spending more money on forklifting already expensive power supplies integral to my existing gear.

Will get back after 200 hours to compare the Hypsos to the S60.


----------



## Progisus

Power supplies have been off my upgrade radar except for a couple iFi for pi’s. Coming from an industrial automation (plc, dcs) background, dc supplies were all about reliability. Everything in that industry was shielding and termination integrity. When you look at the components the price tag on audiophile grade can seem a bit unrealistic. I feel that if they provide the improvement many hear, the manufacturer could have easily incorporated them originally cost wise. That is one of the things Antipodes appears to have done so I don’t need to worry about that. Imho and open to change of mind.


----------



## Presence (Nov 22, 2021)

Progisus said:


> Power supplies have been off my upgrade radar except for a couple iFi for pi’s. Coming from an industrial automation (plc, dcs) background, dc supplies were all about reliability. Everything in that industry was shielding and termination integrity. When you look at the components the price tag on audiophile grade can seem a bit unrealistic. I feel that if they provide the improvement many hear, the manufacturer could have easily incorporated them originally cost wise. That is one of the things Antipodes appears to have done so I don’t need to worry about that. Imho and open to change of mind.


Having experienced the before and after with the CX/EX upgrades, I assert that an upgraded EX to hybrid PS design would make for the right paradigm shift.


----------



## kennyb123 (Nov 22, 2021)

Progisus said:


> When you look at the components the price tag on audiophile grade can seem a bit unrealistic. I feel that if they provide the improvement many hear, the manufacturer could have easily incorporated them originally cost wise. That is one of the things Antipodes appears to have done so I don’t need to worry about that. Imho and open to change of mind.



I think it’s rare that designers can be equally good at both analog and digital circuits.  Larger companies can afford to pay for talent to cover both areas well.  Not sure if Antipodes had to but Innuos is a good example as they worked with Sean Jacobs who is regarded as one of the best. 

I think you’ll find that it is often the smaller shops that will ship with off the shelf SMPSs.  That’s smart as it allows the company to focus on areas that will give them competitive advantage.  Power supplies are a bit like power cords.  Some will want to pour more dollars in while others won’t.  Leaving it up to the customer expands their addressable market.

Lastly, I think there are quite a few very stubborn designers in the industry who won’t sway from their very biased view of things.  As such we end up with products that ship with very basic power supplies along with the statement that linear power supplies can _only_ make the sound worse.  Thus, we can’t assume that they would have included a better power supply if they thought it was worth doing.  Engineers are generally a stubborn bunch.


----------



## kennyb123

andrewd01 said:


> I also like the coloured volume ball


I loved that feature!  The volume level was so easily conveyed by the color of the ball.  I have been blown out of my chair a few times with the Gustard as the volume display is this big.


----------



## Progisus

kennyb123 said:


> I think it’s rare that designers can be equally good at both analog and digital circuits.  Larger companies can afford to pay for talent to cover both areas well.  Not sure if Antipodes had to but Innuos is a good example as they worked with Sean Jacobs who is regarded as one of the best.
> 
> I think you’ll find that it is often the smaller shops that will ship with off the shelf SMPSs.  That’s smart as it allows the company to focus on areas that will give them competitive advantage.  Power supplies are a bit like power cords.  Some will want to pour more dollars in while others won’t.  Leaving it up to the customer expands their addressable market.
> 
> Lastly, I think there are quite a few very stubborn designers in the industry who won’t sway from their very biased view of things.  As such we end up with products that ship with very basic power supplies along with the statement that linear power supplies can _only_ make the sound worse.  Thus, we can’t assume that they would have included a better power supply if they thought it was worth doing.  Engineers are generally a stubborn bunch.


I still stand by my thoughts on power supply pricing vs benefit. Most of these supplies including Antipodes are worth more than your Gustard which has high quality integral supplies I think. I agree about engineers. It was always us Technologists who had to gently herd them in order to get projects completed.


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> I still stand by my thoughts on power supply pricing vs benefit.


The Farad Super3 brought an improvement to my TT2 that was far greater than the $600 or so that I paid.  It was a bargain as I can’t think of another way to get that much of an improvement for that amount.

There are of course pricier supplies.  I think it’s not easy to justify this expense without hearing it for yourself.  I remember my shock after hearing my very first audiophile power supply, the Uptone JS-2.  This transformed a Mac mini in a way I would have never imagined possible. I think the power supply may be what most influences the sound quality of a component.

My Gustard DAC benefits from the cheaper labor costs in China.  I imagine its power supply alone would sell for the a grand if it was assembled in the US or Western Europe.


----------



## iFi audio

kennyb123 said:


> I think you’ll find that it is often the smaller shops that will ship with off the shelf SMPSs. That’s smart as it allows the company to focus on areas that will give them competitive advantage. Power supplies are a bit like power cords. Some will want to pour more dollars in while others won’t. Leaving it up to the customer expands their addressable market.



It's also about providing options to consumers. Those who don't consider upgrades related to power as any meaningful can stick to basics, while others already aware how important power is can take a detour towards upper echelon PSUs if they like. As long as there are choices, everyone's happy. Well, most people at least


----------



## kennyb123 (Nov 24, 2021)

New review here containing some interesting tidbits about 3.1 and the upcoming 3.2.


----------



## Triode User

kennyb123 said:


> New review here containing some interesting tidbits about 3.1 and the upcoming 3.2.


@kennyb123  that link doesn’t work for me (server not found)


----------



## Presence (Nov 24, 2021)

Triode User said:


> @kennyb123  that link doesn’t work for me (server not found)


Same here....
My browsers were reporting "Unsafe" for several days when pulling up the Ferrum Audio site. I sent Ferrum an email and they got it back online yesterday.

_*Perhaps, *_this may be the link - https://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/re...s/antipodes-k50-music-server-update-nov-2021/

Go to "Sound Quality Improvement" paragraph about halfway down the page where it briefly mentions 3.1, 3.2 and the Linux upgrade...


----------



## kennyb123

Presence said:


> _*Perhaps, *_this may be the link - https://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/re...s/antipodes-k50-music-server-update-nov-2021/


Yup that’s it.


----------



## Presence

Progisus said:


> I still stand by my thoughts on power supply pricing vs benefit. Most of these supplies including Antipodes are worth more than your Gustard which has high quality integral supplies I think. I agree about engineers. It was always us Technologists who had to gently herd them in order to get projects completed.


I can't disagree with you on this Progisus...
Once I hear a meaningful improvement though, its impossible for me to go back. I do think the hybrid LPS/SMPS approach is in fact ground breaking on digital gear.
And along the ends of $ vs benefit, if the Hypsos turns out to be very close in sound quality to the S60 for my non-Antipodes powered equipment, _I could have bought two of them for the $ of the S60._ *I am* thinking at this time "I could have had a V8_ ..."_
Additionally, I measured the output voltage of the S60 under load and I get 11.6V on its 12V output for either .8A [1 EtherRegen] or 2.4A [3 EtherRegens].
I am reflecting on the Hans Beekhuysen review of the Hypsos paired with the Mytek DAC where he adjusts the voltage  up from its nominal 12V input requirement to 13.1V where he claims he optimized the Mytek's sound. I wouldn't randomly do this on a piece of gear without knowing its limits.....
As people _have_ reported better sound quality from the EtherRegen with 12V vs 9V, it does have me wondering whether an additional level of SQ can be squeezed out of the EtherRegen by it receiving the full 12V [or possibly higher] which can be accomplished by the Hypsos.


----------



## Progisus

Presence said:


> I can't disagree with you on this Progisus...
> Once I hear a meaningful improvement though, its impossible for me to go back. I do think the hybrid LPS/SMPS approach is in fact ground breaking on digital gear.
> And along the ends of $ vs benefit, if the Hypsos turns out to be very close in sound quality to the S60 for my non-Antipodes powered equipment, _I could have bought two of them for the $ of the S60._ *I am* thinking at this time "I could have had a V8_ ..."_
> Additionally, I measured the output voltage of the S60 under load and I get 11.6V on its 12V output for either .8A [1 EtherRegen] or 2.4A [3 EtherRegens].
> ...


I took a look at the Hypsos and was intrigued by the adjustment of the output voltage. That is a feature I feel could be used to fine tune the sound. I look forward to your findings. The cost seems reasonable.

I must admit I have ordered a power cord and usb cable for my incoming K30. I could have made the power cord and I haven’t heard much difference on in specification usb cables but darn they will look nice.

I also got a 4tb Samsung EVO ssd for a great price on Amazon, formatted in my EX and have my PGGB files already downloaded to it. I’ll put a 2tb in disk 1 with my remaining Roon library and the PGGB in disk 2. I hope I am able to configure the K30 to do MPD direct. I think I’ll move the EX to the TT(1) on the desk……..


----------



## Presence

Progisus said:


> I still stand by my thoughts on power supply pricing vs benefit. Most of these supplies including Antipodes are worth more than your Gustard which has high quality integral supplies I think. I agree about engineers. It was always us Technologists who had to gently herd them in order to get projects completed.


Supplemental to my last post, and still along the lines of $ vs. benefit, I originally asked Mark Jenkins if a DC jack on the back of the CX/EX wired to the (opened) Red/Black output leads into the main board from the original LPS would provide the same effect as the upgrade and his reply was yes.
My thought was to use one S60 for both my CX and EX at 1/2 the upgrade cost.
I was not able to 
- confirm that one S60 could power both EX and CX simultaneously. At best I think it would have been borderline.
- after the above priority, the next issue would be whether the front panel power button logic would work properly if the S60 was on permanently.

Finally, at the time of my decision to go for the upgrade, it was not clear (to me) whether 3.1 would be available for non-upgraded units w/o returning them to the factory.


----------



## kennyb123

Presence said:


> I am reflecting on the Hans Beekhuysen review of the Hypsos paired with the Mytek DAC where he adjusts the voltage up from its nominal 12V input requirement to 13.1V where he claims he optimized the Mytek's sound. I wouldn't randomly do this on a piece of gear without knowing its limits.....



Fixed voltage power supplies can have an advantage in the area of regulation. I’ll let Farad explain it:

“The power dissipation of a linear regulator is dependent on the ingoing and outgoing voltage and current. Therefore the only way to make the output flexible is to make the input voltage flexible or by using switching power regulators, as many other brands do. Both of these ways are very sub-optimal designs. Since we are aiming to be the absolute reference in linear regulated power supplies, we specifically choose to go for rigid, but fully optimized fixed output voltage in our power supplies.”

I think regulation is the real difference-maker when it comes to powering digital components.



Presence said:


> As people _have_ reported better sound quality from the EtherRegen with 12V vs 9V, it does have me wondering whether an additional level of SQ can be squeezed out of the EtherRegen by it receiving the full 12V [or possibly higher] which can be accomplished by the Hypsos.



How many reports of this have you actually seen?  In the early days there was one person who had Super3 in both and he said he had a slight preference for 9v.  It seemed to become gospel after that with many referring to what that one person reported.  John and Alex have both said it shouldn’t matter.  Thus despite that one report I went with 12v because that seemed a more common voltage should I ever want to repurpose the Super3.  Interesting to hear you now say that 12v has been reported to be better.


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> I also got a 4tb Samsung EVO ssd for a great price on Amazon, formatted in my EX and have my PGGB files already downloaded to it. I’ll put a 2tb in disk 1 with my remaining Roon library and the PGGB in disk 2. I hope I am able to configure the K30 to do MPD direct. I think I’ll move the EX to the TT(1) on the desk……..


I’m really excited for you to get your K30.  As far as your disk strategy, I think it’s going to want to erase the second disk you insert.  A single virtual volume is created from both drives.  So when you start with a 4TB drive and add a 2TB drive it’s as if you expanded the 4TB drive to 6TB.  I could be wrong as I actually inserted a brand new drive as my second drive.


----------



## Presence (Nov 24, 2021)

kennyb123 said:


> Fixed voltage power supplies can have an advantage in the area of regulation. I’ll let Farad explain it:
> 
> “The power dissipation of a linear regulator is dependent on the ingoing and outgoing voltage and current. Therefore the only way to make the output flexible is to make the input voltage flexible or by using switching power regulators, as many other brands do. Both of these ways are very sub-optimal designs. Since we are aiming to be the absolute reference in linear regulated power supplies, we specifically choose to go for rigid, but fully optimized fixed output voltage in our power supplies.”
> 
> ...


Alex and John originally said that the included SMPS wall wart was sufficient and they didn’t hear a difference with a quality LPS.
There is a thread from years ago about replacing the TXCO on the original USB Regen with an OCXO to get better audio quality and Alex and John originally responded that it shouldn’t affect SQ.
I recall them also saying the Crystek 575 was great (for $25 it is) and there wasn’t much to be gained with 10M external reference.
There have been multiple testimonials on  Audiophilestyle forums pertaining to 12V over 9V


----------



## td19 (Nov 24, 2021)

kennyb123 said:


> I’m really excited for you to get your K30.  *As far as your disk strategy, I think it’s going to want to erase the second disk you insert.  A single virtual volume is created from both drives.  So when you start with a 4TB drive and add a 2TB drive it’s as if you expanded the 4TB drive to 6TB.*  I could be wrong as I actually inserted a brand new drive as my second drive.


That is correct. You can add a *blank* drive to a previously loaded, single disk-drive, logical volume but you cannot add a drive that has already been formatted separately . I think you will probably need to move your existing loaded 2Tb drive from the EX to the K30, then insert the 4Tb drive in a second slot (you will be asked to wipe it I think), then add it and copy to PGGB files to it. Check with Antipodes support.

However if you meant that you formatted the 4Tb drive on the EX by using Storage Manager to add it to the existing 2Tb drive (logical) volume and then copied the PGGB files to that logical volume I think you can move to two drives from EX to K30 OK.


----------



## td19

Presence said:


> Supplemental to my last post, and still along the lines of $ vs. benefit, I originally asked Mark Jenkins if a DC jack on the back of the CX/EX wired to the (opened) Red/Black output leads into the main board from the original LPS would provide the same effect as the upgrade and his reply was yes.
> My thought was to use one S60 for both my CX and EX at 1/2 the upgrade cost.
> I was not able to
> - confirm that one S60 could power both EX and CX simultaneously. At best I think it would have been borderline.
> ...


3.1 can be installed on non-upgraded CX, EX, DX3 and even DS providing they are on Antipodes 2.7 (or 2.8). I know this because my CX/EX have not been OLADRA-upgraded,


----------



## kennyb123 (Nov 24, 2021)

Presence said:


> Alex and John originally said that the included SMPS wall wart was sufficient and they didn’t hear a difference with a quality LPS.
> I recall them also saying the Crystek 575 was great (and for $25 it is) and there wasn’t much to be gained with 10M external reference.


I think they were trying to emphasize that the ER didn’t need these things to bring a substantial gain to one’s system - and they were right.  That was a departure from their previous products which really needed an LPS-1 or LPS-1.2 or JS-2 to sound great.  Also the LPS-1.2 was reported to not really do enough for the ER.  It would have lead to disappointment had they encouraged an upgraded supply as they’d done in the past.

Nothing extra to buy when it comes to choosing between 9v and 12v so it’s similar to John‘s remarks about the ER running hot.  I’m dubious about reports of it sounding better when cooled in the same way I’m dubious about it sounding better at one voltage vs another.  I guess what I’m saying that Alex has to consider the sales and customer expectations side of things when making recommendations - and that’s not easy.  John is freed from that and can just comment on things from an engineering perspective. That doesn’t mean he’s never wrong but his batting average is excellent.  I personally try to avoid sweating the small stuff.  If I have to work hard to tease out differences, I feel I’ve wasted time I will never get back.  Hence my decision to flip and coin and go with 12v.


----------



## Triode User

Presence said:


> I can't disagree with you on this Progisus...
> Once I hear a meaningful improvement though, its impossible for me to go back. I do think the hybrid LPS/SMPS approach is in fact ground breaking on digital gear.
> And along the ends of $ vs benefit, if the Hypsos turns out to be very close in sound quality to the S60 for my non-Antipodes powered equipment, _I could have bought two of them for the $ of the S60._ *I am* thinking at this time "I could have had a V8_ ..."_
> Additionally, I measured the output voltage of the S60 under load and I get 11.6V on its 12V output for either .8A [1 EtherRegen] or 2.4A [3 EtherRegens].
> ...


Just a few thoughts and a couple of cents or pennies thrown in. Also as it happens I have Dr Sean Jacobs visiting me for most of today so my thoughts are very much on power supplies . . . .

With the ER I ran mine at 10.5V, mainly because that was the LPS that I had around and I did not feel like buying another one for the sake of 1.5V. My evaluation of the ER and other switches has been based on comparing them to disconnecting streamer from the network by pulling the ethernet plug. This was obviously only with playing locally stored ripped files rather than streamed music. This proved to me that the ER was clearly having an audible effect on the sound but to my ear it was colouring the music rather than being better and so I sold it and bought a PhoenixNET instead because with that the sound was indistinguishable from pulling the ethernet plug. 

But back to power supplies, as most will know I run my Dave with a Sean Jacobs DC4, now upgraded to the ARC6 version. I am told that one of the prime objectives of the ARC6 upgrade was to reduce the impedance of the power supply. The DC4 regulator board is unchanged but the ARC6 rectifier boards have much larger capacitors specifically chosen for their low impedance. Sean has told me that he has found that this low impedance for the power supply is especially important for digital circuits. When my DC4 was being upgraded to ARC6 specification I first of all only had it done to the 5V supply powering the digital board within the Dave. The difference was really quite profound and confounded my original expectation that it would be the Dave’s analogue circuits which might benefit more than the digital circuits. I can therefore understand and appreciate the Antipodes approach to power supplies and can see how that can reap rewards. Certainly my K50 is sounding wonderful.

On the subject of the K50, I have very firmly settled on using Squeeze and Squeezelite (no Roon) as being the best sound for either feeding files to the Mscaler or for playing 705 and 768kHz PGGB files. When connected to the Mscaler I tend to use the bnc output from the K50 and when playing PGGB files I of course have to use the usb output and then convert that to dual bnc with the src.dx in order to optimally connect to the Dave.


----------



## Progisus

td19 said:


> That is correct. You can add a *blank* drive to a previously loaded, single disk-drive, logical volume but you cannot add a drive that has already been formatted separately . I think you will probably need to move your existing loaded 2Tb drive from the EX to the K30, then insert the 4Tb drive in a second slot (you will be asked to wipe it I think), then add it and copy to PGGB files to it. Check with Antipodes support.
> 
> However if you meant that you formatted the 4Tb drive on the EX by using Storage Manager to add it to the existing 2Tb drive (logical) volume and then copied the PGGB files to that logical volume I think you can move to two drives from EX to K30 OK.


Thanks Tony. It looks like I will need to reformat the 4tb in the K30. I have only 1 slot in the EX so the 4tb was added as a primary volume. The network copy takes about 6 hours for 2.7 tb of pggb files. I could plug the usb drive into the K30 and use file manager for a quicker transfer perhaps. Delivery for the K30 is Dec 6 according to DHL.


----------



## frankensmurf

Is anyone successfully playing DSD256 native files via CX / EX w Roon Core / HQP?

I have HQP set as a non-oversampling renderer, including SDM Direct. When I try to play DSD256 files, Roon remote (on my laptop) loses connection with Roon Core on the CX, and the CX stops responding for a minute or two. I have to quit HQP on the CX, restart Roon core on the CX and wait a couple minutes to get things working again. Anyone else had this issue? 

>> With the setting below, I can play back DSD128 files Roon Core to HQP with these setting no problem at all. 

>> However, I thought perhaps the SDM Rate Limit might have an impact (even though SDM Direct is selected) so I upped that to 12,288,000. Clicking play on a DSD128 track on that setting, Roon remote lost connection for a minute, eventually reconnected. Same with DSD 64, it turns out.


My PS Audio DirectStream accepts native DSD256 through HDMI.. Chain is ER1 > CX > ER2 > EX > USB > Innuos Pheonix > USB >  P2 > HDMI > PSA DS.

My HQP settings are (were) as follows:


----------



## kennyb123

frankensmurf said:


> My PS Audio DirectStream accepts native DSD256 through HDMI.. Chain is ER1 > CX > ER2 > EX > USB > Innuos Pheonix > USB > P2 > HDMI > PSA DS.
> 
> My HQP settings are (were) as follows:


I wish I could help but HQPlayer’s DSD configuration has been a mystery to me.  SDM direct should send it straight on.  

Can you play the files directly from HQPlayer without Roon being involved?


----------



## atya35mm

Hi all I'm not very technical, but just wondering does Antipodes K30 / K50 uses toroidal power transformers? Can't seem to find this info easily googling. 

I've been stacking my Chord M Scaler on top of the K30, and recently read on the manual that Chord recommends not having the unit close to Toroidal power transformers. So now wondering whether I should maybe place it side by side or get something to separate the two. Appreciate any advise. Thanks!!


----------



## frankensmurf

kennyb123 said:


> I wish I could help but HQPlayer’s DSD configuration has been a mystery to me.  SDM direct should send it straight on.
> 
> Can you play the files directly from HQPlayer without Roon being involved?


Yes, it is mysterious. I guess it goes without saying that the UI is a disaster.. but even a baseline-usable UI would clarify what settings are out of the loop when a bypass like SDM Direct is selected. Sigh. I will wrestle with it. 

Playing Direct from HQP is my next step... I guess I'm going back on my firm declaration that I would only use the Roon UI.


----------



## kennyb123

atya35mm said:


> I've been stacking my Chord M Scaler on top of the K30, and recently read on the manual that Chord recommends not having the unit close to Toroidal power transformers. So now wondering whether I should maybe place it side by side or get something to separate the two. Appreciate any advise. Thanks!!



Here’s a photo of the inside of my K30.  The power supply is sitting my its lonesome in the front half.  

My guess is that Chord worries more about the EMF emitted from a transformer harming the performance of the M-Scaler.  I think that may also be why there is a separator inside the K30 that splits this into two sections.  

It’s always a good practice to keep components separated.  The nice thing about EM and RF is that they drop by the square of the distance.  So even just a little distance helps.


----------



## atya35mm

kennyb123 said:


> Here’s a photo of the inside of my K30.  The power supply is sitting my its lonesome in the front half.
> 
> My guess is that Chord worries more about the EMF emitted from a transformer harming the performance of the M-Scaler.  I think that may also be why there is a separator inside the K30 that splits this into two sections.
> 
> It’s always a good practice to keep components separated.  The nice thing about EM and RF is that they drop by the square of the distance.  So even just a little distance helps.


Thanks Kenny! I saw the interior as well from another review. So have now move the m scaler to the back left corner to be as far away as possible from the transformer. I also place a modified monitor stand (maybe about 3cm thick?) and tape 2 layers of alum foil below the stand to shield? Haha. I feel silly doing it, almost like making a tin foil hat. 

Anyway here's a pic. Also, the stand is lifted just a bit with rubber feet so there's still some ventilation above the k30.


----------



## FlikFlac

atya35mm said:


> Thanks Kenny! I saw the interior as well from another review. So have now move the m scaler to the back left corner to be as far away as possible from the transformer. I also place a modified monitor stand (maybe about 3cm thick?) and tape 2 layers of alum foil below the stand to shield? Haha. I feel silly doing it, almost like making a tin foil hat.
> 
> Anyway here's a pic. Also, the stand is lifted just a bit with rubber feet so there's still some ventilation above the k30.


If possible, it’s probably worth experimenting with position as the Mscaler does emit a lot of RF, so the impact of the Mscaler to other equipment, especially the DAC, can also be quite detrimental.


----------



## andrewd01

atya35mm said:


> Hi all I'm not very technical, but just wondering does Antipodes K30 / K50 uses toroidal power transformers? Can't seem to find this info easily googling.
> 
> I've been stacking my Chord M Scaler on top of the K30, and recently read on the manual that Chord recommends not having the unit close to Toroidal power transformers. So now wondering whether I should maybe place it side by side or get something to separate the two. Appreciate any advise. Thanks!!



They are not torroidal transformers.  The picture in this review shows what the power supplies look like: https://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/re...rk-player-reviews/antipodes-k50-music-server/

Whether the ones used are any better from an interference standpoint I don’t know. At least you can see where they are located and put the M scaler on the other side.


----------



## atya35mm

andrewd01 said:


> They are not torroidal transformers.  The picture in this review shows what the power supplies look like: https://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/re...rk-player-reviews/antipodes-k50-music-server/
> 
> Whether the ones used are any better from an interference standpoint I don’t know. At least you can see where they are located and put the M scaler on the other side.


Thanks, although the k50 layout and the k30 layout is quite different, with mine being the k30. But good point that perhaps they are not considered torroidal transformers. But no harm putting it away from the power supply I suppose, which the design of the k30 seems to being doing it too, putting the power supply at the front in lonesome and having a separate shield from the other components.


----------



## kennyb123

andrewd01 said:


> Whether the ones used are any better from an interference standpoint I don’t know. At least you can see where they are located and put the M scaler on the other side.


Out of curiosity I purchased an inexpensive EMF meter from Amazon.  The K30 only caused this to beep when I held in in proximity to that power supply.  The level was a fraction of some other components.  My amp was the worst and the EtherRegen might have been second worse.  I should repeat this.


----------



## atya35mm

Wow thanks 


kennyb123 said:


> Out of curiosity I purchased an inexpensive EMF meter from Amazon.  The K30 only caused this to beep when I held in in proximity to that power supply.  The level was a fraction of some other components.  My amp was the worst and the EtherRegen might have been second worse.  I should repeat this.


Wow didn't realize there is an EMF meter. That's good to know. When you say close proximity, do you mean held so close that it's touching the metal case on top of the power supply. or 10cm away etc...


----------



## kennyb123

atya35mm said:


> do you mean held so close that it's touching the metal case on top of the power supply. or 10cm away etc.


I definitely wasn't aiming for precision .. I was just playing with my new toy.  

I'll measure again tomorrow and provide more details.


----------



## Whazzzup

always separate  even a little.


----------



## Whazzzup

oladra upgrade, here I come.


----------



## naynay (Nov 29, 2021)

Any CX-EX users who have upgraded to 3.1 who play PGGB files through M Scaler can I ask if you have them working on Squeeze as I am having issues?


----------



## kennyb123

naynay said:


> Any CX-EX users who have upgraded to 3.1 who play PGGB files through M Scaler can I ask if you have them working on Squeeze as I am having issues?


Have you enabled the C-3PO plugin?  See the conversation that began around post 1312 for more detail.


----------



## naynay

Thanks @kennyb123 the C-3PO plugin corrected it.


----------



## kennyb123

atya35mm said:


> Wow thanks
> 
> Wow didn't realize there is an EMF meter. That's good to know. When you say close proximity, do you mean held so close that it's touching the metal case on top of the power supply. or 10cm away etc...


The EMF meter has a threshold such that anything that exceeds this number makes it beep.  I haven't moved this threshold from its default setting.

All around that motor the meter will beep even up to a couple inches away.  This same thing happens around all each the power supplies in my system so this is just the normal magnetic field that forms around them.  Probably a good idea to keep sensitive components away from this field.  These numbers shown for my K30 are low relative to the numbers I see for my other components.

I tend to avoid sweating the small stuff so I won’t be obsessing over these - especially since I lack the space to better separate my components.  But I can see how meters like this might be of value when one is dealing with a tight space.  This model is no longer available on Amazon but there are others.


----------



## Whazzzup

Just as a side bar, google earth Mark biz address and antipodes audio manufacturing site, a beautiful nz country side.


----------



## Presence

kennyb123 said:


> Out of curiosity I purchased an inexpensive EMF meter from Amazon.  The K30 only caused this to beep when I held in in proximity to that power supply.  The level was a fraction of some other components.  My amp was the worst and the EtherRegen might have been second worse.  I should repeat this.


Hi Ken,

Would you have time to compare the EMI [?- or EMF?] of the EtherRegen before and after putting a ground on the EtherRegen thumb GND screw?
I'd be interested if there is no difference, whether something like Stillpoints ERS might tame it and if there might be an audible difference.
https://www.stillpoints.us/index.php/product/ers

Thanks.

Rich


----------



## Presence

*Linux update for USB devices?*

A bit off-Antipodes topic but maybe someone can educate me....

Given the Linux operating system update affecting [as I understand it] USB performance, would it make sense that for a product such as the Innuos Phoenix USB Regen or a USB to "X" DDI device, does it make sense to expect that there would be a driver update in all or many of these products?
I know Amanero has an update. I checked with Innuous and they were vague and suggested I get in the back of the line and submit a feature request.
I also have an inquiry to SingXer for their SU-2 DDI.


----------



## Triode User

Presence said:


> Given the Linux operating system update affecting [as I understand it] USB performance


Where did you hear that?


----------



## Presence (Dec 1, 2021)

Funny how after getting all my thoughts in writing, new insights occur....
After consideration, on the Phoenix USB Regen, it isn't converting/unpacking USB to IIS like a DDI, it's recreating the same pulses so no issue there [_or so I think_].
But I am still interested if there is any Linux optimization to be had for my SingXer DDI.

From the Audio GD website DAC FW update page:
The first screen shot below identifies at the very bottom [item C.] new DAC FPGA load for Amanero Optimization for Linux FW.
I have a request into Audio GD for what this specifically means but I have [perhaps incorrectly] conflated this to be related to Linux Update in 3.1

The second screen shot is the Amanero USB interface load for Linux optimization at the very bottom of the screen shot.
Audio GD had this all summarized up until two days ago on their home page so I had to find the individual screen shots...


----------



## kennyb123

Presence said:


> Would you have time to compare the EMI [?- or EMF?] of the EtherRegen before and after putting a ground on the EtherRegen thumb GND screw?
> I'd be interested if there is no difference, whether something like Stillpoints ERS might tame it and if there might be an audible difference.
> https://www.stillpoints.us/index.php/product/ers


I'm unable to get clean measurements of just the EtherRegen given where it's located on my rack.  I'd be happy to loan you my EMF meter if you'd like to take some of your own measurements.  Send me a PM if interested.

I do have some ERS paper around here.  I just have to figure out where I put it.  I agree that it would be interesting to see how it benefits.


----------



## coldbru

Is the K50 fast enough to do HQPlayer DSD upsampling at 256?


----------



## Triode User

kennyb123 said:


> I'm unable to get clean measurements of just the EtherRegen given where it's located on my rack.  I'd be happy to loan you my EMF meter if you'd like to take some of your own measurements.  Send me a PM if interested.
> 
> I do have some ERS paper around here.  I just have to figure out where I put it.  I agree that it would be interesting to see how it benefits.


 What frequency range does your meter cover? Does it go as low as 50Hz and as high as say 5GHz?


----------



## kennyb123

Triode User said:


> What frequency range does your meter cover? Does it go as low as 50Hz and as high as say 5GHz?



Amazon deleted the product page, but I found a similar item at Walmart for the huge sum of $16.99.  The specs:

Unit: mG / μT (Magnetic Field), V/m (Electric Field) 
Magnetic Field Strength : 0.01～199.9μT (0.1～1999mG) 
Electric Field Strength : 0～1999V/m 
Accuracy: ±5% (50μT to 200μT)μT at 50Hz or 60Hz 
Magnetic Field Strength Resolution: 0.01μT (0.1mG) 
Electric Field Strength Resolution: 1V/m 
Magnetic Field Strength Frequency : 20Hz～300Hz 
Electric Field Strength Frequency : 20Hz～3500MHz 

https://www.walmart.com/ip/115393614


----------



## magnuska

Presence said:


> *Ferrum Hypsos Hybrid Power Supply - 1st Impressions*
> 
> A bit off-thread, but I think still relevant as I decided to call an audible to postpone the comparison of the Hypsos and the S60 at 12V powering the EtherRegens between the CX and EX.
> Given that a fair and meaningful comparison requires both units being run in for at least 200 hours, I decided to first check the Hypsos' impact on my SingXer SU-2 DDI       [USB to i2S in my setup] as this was a mod that was fairly easy to set up.
> ...


I Will receive My Hypsos tomorrow. Plan to use it with My Antipodes S40. Do you have more comments on yours?


----------



## Progisus

3.11 is live. After upgrade a roon restore and hqplayer reconfig is required. It may have fixed squeeze playing of 705/768 files. K series owners please confirm.


----------



## Triode User

Progisus said:


> 3.11 is live. After upgrade a roon restore and hqplayer reconfig is required. It may have fixed squeeze playing of 705/768 files. K series owners please confirm.


It isn’t available on my K50 in the UK.

Has it given you access to any later version of Squeeze / Squeezelite? I am on Squeeze 8.3.0 and Squeezelite 1.8.7 with AMS 3.1


----------



## Presence

magnuska said:


> I Will receive My Hypsos tomorrow. Plan to use it with My Antipodes S40. Do you have more comments on yours?


I suspect you are going to like it - a lot...
Outside of it powering my SingXer SU-2 DDI, I haven't moved it around. It has about 300 hours on it now.
I intend to reconnect the integral LPS in the SingXer and run a few tests with the Hypsos powering the EtherRegens to see how it stacks up with the S60.


----------



## Triode User (Dec 3, 2021)

Progisus said:


> 3.11 is live. After upgrade a roon restore and hqplayer reconfig is required. It may have fixed squeeze playing of 705/768 files. K series owners please confirm.


I flashed my credit card and bought a flight to Perth (Aus). I am now the proud recipient of 3.11.

Unfortunately the 3.11 versions of Squeeze/Squeezelite do not play 705/768 without the C-3PO plugin.

What is worse is that they appear not to now work with the C-3PO plugin.

Has anyone got any better news or something that I have missed? Has anyone got the 3.11 versions of Squeeze/Squeezelite to play 705/768 files?


----------



## Progisus

Triode User said:


> I flashed my credit card and bought a flight to Perth (Aus). I am now the proud recipient of 3.11.
> 
> Unfortunately the 3.11 versions of Squeeze/Squeezelite do not play 705/768 without the C-3PO plugin.
> 
> ...


I have it playing 705/768 with LMS and Squeeze but I have the one box solution at present (EX). I only tried a couple files though as I was eager to get back to roon now that it much faster with the .NET upgrade. I know roon doesn't sound as good as LMS but if you team it with HQPLayer none,none,none,0db,768, 24b as the sound engine it ticks all my boxes.

Interesting thing.... I have a Vangelis (Juno) album PGGB at 768 24b and it will not play tracks 11,12,13 with roon/HQPlayer. I have ripped it a couple times and the same thing. But, it does play with LMS, Squeeze and MPD Direct. Weird.

It would be nice if there was a Forum on Antipodes that told us what was updated.


----------



## kennyb123 (Dec 3, 2021)

Triode User said:


> Unfortunately the 3.11 versions of Squeeze/Squeezelite do not play 705/768 without the C-3PO plugin.


Noooo.  I unfortunately haven’t gotten that far.  My Squeeze server can’t see the Squeeze player.


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> It would be nice if there was a Forum on Antipodes that told us what was updated.



Agree.  I would have liked to see that before electing to proceed with the upgrade.


----------



## 12grayclouds

AMSv3.11 on Antipodes Audio Website


----------



## Triode User (Dec 4, 2021)

kennyb123 said:


> Agree.  I would have liked to see that before electing to proceed with the upgrade.


Have you now had any success getting Squeeze/Squeezelite to play 16FS with the 3.11 Antipodes update? You will have seen I have asked Mark Cole on the Antipodes Forum whether he has had it working with 705/768 files as part of the vetting procedure before releasing it to us. Then I will know it is just me needing to sort it out at my end.

Edit, Mark Cole has replied to me on the Antipodes Forum that they are looking into it and will report back.


----------



## kennyb123

Mark spent nearly an hour trying to get my K30 back to the default config.  I sort of have 3.1 now as former Squeeze UI is back along with the C-3PO option.  I say sort of back to 3.1 as a newer version of Squeeze is installed.  C-3PO isn’t allowing my 16FS files to play as did the prior version of Squeeze.  I think it’s because of the message that follows.  I’m pretty sure that the prior version was an R2 version.


----------



## Triode User

kennyb123 said:


> Mark spent nearly an hour trying to get my K30 back to the default config.  I sort of have 3.1 now as former Squeeze UI is back along with the C-3PO option.  I say sort of back to 3.1 as a newer version of Squeeze is installed.  C-3PO isn’t allowing my 16FS files to play as did the prior version of Squeeze.  I think it’s because of the message that follows.  I’m pretty sure that the prior version was an R2 version.



With 3.1, I was on Squeeze 8.3.0 and Squeezelite 1.8.7. With C-3PO they played 16fS (as you know).

I will probably wait and see if they can sort out the later versions to play 16fS. I don’t particularly want to be limited to  staying with 3.1. Let’s see what happens.


----------



## kennyb123

Triode User said:


> I will probably wait and see if they can sort out the later versions to play 16fS. I don’t particularly want to be limited to staying with 3.1.


Waiting is the prudent way to go. One day I will learn that lesson myself.  

Watching Mark work his magic on my K30 made more evident the complexity of these software installs. I don’t envy Mark.


----------



## Progisus

My K30 is on it’s way from NZ after a lengthy hold in Auckland. In LA and should be here Monday/Tuesday. It went through testing in NZ so maybe it will be 3.11. Exciting.


----------



## naynay (Dec 6, 2021)

Issue for me after 3.11 update Squeeze not working now player not connecting.


----------



## Presence (Dec 6, 2021)

*Hypsos Hybrid Power Supply Listening Observations Powering EtherRegens*












           Take the A Train                                       Stormy Monday                  Requiem for Chorus & Orchestra

*System Context*
I had the Hypsos bypassing the SingXer DDI internal 5V linear power supply as I normally convert USB to IIS to feed into the DAC.
As I previously posted, the Hypsos powering the SingXer SU-2 DDI very notably improved sound quality.
To expedite things, instead of rewiring the SingXer DDI back to its integral LPS to free up the Hypsos, I removed the DDI entirely and opted for USB straight into the DAC which sacrifices image precision, glare reduction and overall refinement. Not ideal. I also feel like I've left everyone short by not providing any absolute conclusiveness....
It is what it is.

*The test*
At 11.6VDC output [matched to the measured loaded voltage output of the S60] into two series Uptone Audio EtherRegens between CX and EX, I heard more resolution, sound stage space and there was more "light" around the brass instruments, guitars and vocals with the Hypsos compared to the rounder and relatively darker sounding S60. For the EtherRegens, my immediate preference was for the resolution and expanded spaciousness of the Hypsos.

Having upgraded up the line from original DX2 to current CX/EX, I trust Mark Jenkins' ears and his design choices and suspect there was an intended tuning of the S60 for an all - Antipodes environment: powering the S40/S30/S20 for which I have no access to judge.

I went back and forth between all Roon and all Squeeze and I still feel that Squeeze is rolled off and masking the same glares and transient blurs I hear in certain orchestral, soprano voice and dense choir material [whether of my downstream system's doing or not].
After more extended listening, I felt that the more revealing nature of the Hypsos in the context of my system offered the same paradigm I feel between Roon and Squeeze however, the more revealing nature of the Hypsos now over-exposed the faults of my system in a way that after extended listening, created fatigue.
Not knowing [yet] their origin, if these glares can be eliminated, my inclination is towards the presentation of the more revealing Hypsos.
I do know for certain that USB straight into the DAC introduces additional glare.

*Varying the Voltage Output*
I did vary the voltage from 9V to 12V from the Hypsos into the EtherRegens and heard a correlation to the "light around instruments" as I switched upwards from 9V [darker] to 12V [lighter/more spacious]. 
As with my personal observations between Roon and Squeeze, I could see the 9V vs 12V EtherRegen debate as coming down to personal preference and system dependence.
I went as high as 13V into the EtherRegens ["safe, but if it toasts the EtherRegen, warranty is void" - per Alex] and felt there was maximum light around instruments at 13V.

I hope my listening observations were useful. I am open to anyone dropping in for a listen if you happen to be in central Connecticut 

P.S. I found the 4W voltage sensing and SST Noise Spectrum features to be subtle in their effect so I left them disabled most of the time. The Hypsos was left on for several hundred hours powering the DDI before connecting it to the EtherRegens.


----------



## Presence

Not sure what happened with formatting and lines thru the text after Posting....


----------



## kennyb123

Presence said:


> sound stage space and there was more "light" around the brass instruments, guitars and vocals with the Hypsos compared to the rounder and relatively darker sounding S60


Your description might point to the Hypsos passing on more noise (RF).  This description that follows is also what one might expect from a noisier power supply...


Presence said:


> the more revealing nature of the Hypsos now over-exposed the faults of my system in a way that after extended listening, created fatigue.


When the topic of power supplies or cables comes up, Rob Watts of Chord likes to say that "darker is better".  He cautions against moves that don't make the sound darker because he thinks the sound of RF can create an appeal as it can give the impression of greater detail.  I think he goes overboard often on that but I think the point he makes is valid.


----------



## Presence

kennyb123 said:


> Your description might point to the Hypsos passing on more noise (RF).  This description that follows is also what one might expect from a noisier power supply...
> 
> When the topic of power supplies or cables comes up, Rob Watts of Chord likes to say that "darker is better".  He cautions against moves that don't make the sound darker because he thinks the sound of RF can create an appeal as it can give the impression of greater detail.  I think he goes overboard often on that but I think the point he makes is valid.


Reflecting on these points it hit me that two of the Mutec 10M clock outputs feeding an unplugged/ungrounded SingXer DDI as well as an unpowered EtherRegen we’re still on. I recalled Audiobacon mentioning that unused coax cables should be unplugged at the Mutec regardless of whether the port was off. So optioned off and unplugged they became, and the sound was relaxed without the light around the instruments  but retaining what I heard as more detailed and more “there” there vs the S60.


----------



## Triode User

Presence said:


> Reflecting on these points it hit me that two of the Mutec 10M clock outputs feeding an unplugged/ungrounded SingXer DDI as well as an unpowered EtherRegen we’re still on. I recalled Audiobacon mentioning that unused coax cables should be unplugged at the Mutec regardless of whether the port was off. So optioned off and unplugged they became, and the sound was relaxed without the light around the instruments  but retaining what I heard as more detailed and more “there” there vs the S60.


I have not tried either the S60 or the Hypsos but is it possible that what you describe as a more “there” sound might be the result of more noise from the Hypsos. I have been caught before now with thinking that some instruments were more ’lifelike’ but then later realised that I was just hearing noise induced artefacts.

It would be interesting to do a similar experiment to yours but also putting say a one box K50 into the comparison playing the same music and with the same apps (ie Roon and squeeze). It might also indicate what the etherregens are doing in your system. I admit whenever I have tried them connected to my K50 for the network connection I found they coloured the music.

Your comments about Roon are interesting. For me Squeeze/Squeezelite is an easy win against Roon for sound quality. Each time I give Roon just one more go I end up quitting it after about a track and a half. It just seems to me to muddy the bass/lower mids and interfere with the mid/top end in a way that do not like.


----------



## kennyb123

Triode User said:


> Your comments about Roon are interesting. For me Squeeze/Squeezelite is an easy win against Roon for sound quality. Each time I give Roon just one more go I end up quitting it after about a track and a half. It just seems to me to muddy the bass/lower mids and interfere with the mid/top end in a way that do not like.


I had a lot of fun listening to Roon/Squeeze this evening.  I listened to only unfamiliar music so it was impossible to distinguish flaws in the recording from harm Roon was doing.  I was frankly surprised by how good it sounded.  I think the REF10 be lending a helping hand by it providing a reference to my EtherRegen.


----------



## magnuska

Presence said:


> *Hypsos Hybrid Power Supply Listening Observations Powering EtherRegens*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you. When I receive my new speakers I Will report how Hypsos perform with My S40. 😀


----------



## frankensmurf

Triode User said:


> With 3.1, I was on Squeeze 8.3.0 and Squeezelite 1.8.7. With C-3PO they played 16fS (as you know).
> 
> I will probably wait and see if they can sort out the later versions to play 16fS. I don’t particularly want to be limited to  staying with 3.1. Let’s see what happens.


I took the leap and did the 3.11 update. Am I the only one who doesn't know their own username and password for the CX? Any assistance appreciated.  : )


----------



## naynay

You do not need to. Just close that page and open CX as you normally do.


----------



## Triode User

Triode User said:


> With 3.1, I was on Squeeze 8.3.0 and Squeezelite 1.8.7. With C-3PO they played 16fS (as you know).
> 
> I will probably wait and see if they can sort out the later versions to play 16fS. I don’t particularly want to be limited to  staying with 3.1. Let’s see what happens.


 Some of you may have seen this post on the Antipodes Forum saying that they are working on a fix to enable the Squeeze and Squeezelite shipped with 3.11 to play 16FS files (ie 705 and 768kHz). 

“_FYI there is a fix in the works for 705 / 768 
No ETA, but rest assured its a priority_”

I am happy to wait and in the meantime I will just play non upscaled files direcct to the DAC or to the Mscaler with Squeeze/Squeezelite (which I am really enjoying and no hardship for the moment).


----------



## naynay

Has the C-3PO plugin been removed in the 3.11 update as not able to locate it?


----------



## Triode User

naynay said:


> Has the C-3PO plugin been removed in the 3.11 update as not able to locate it?


The 3-CPO plug-in is not compatible with the later version of Sqeeze/Squeezelite included with 3.11. So even if you make the C-3PO plug-in active it will not work.

We need to wait for the promised software magic from Antipodes to get the later versions of Sqeeze/Squeezelite to play 705/768 files.


----------



## Triode User (Dec 10, 2021)

Triode User said:


> The 3-CPO plug-in is not compatible with the later version of Sqeeze/Squeezelite included with 3.11. So even if you make the C-3PO plug-in active it will not work.
> 
> We need to wait for the promised software magic from Antipodes to get the later versions of Sqeeze/Squeezelite to play 705/768 files.


Antipodes have announced that 3.12 is being released overnight to fix Squeeze/Squeezelite being able to play 705 and 768kHz files. This fix does not require C-3PO.
v3.12​_“Squeeze Remote Control
Some minor updates

Squeeze Player
A critical fix for a small number of users experiencing problems with Squeeze Server losing Squeeze Player. And a critical fix for users wanting to play very high bit-rate files.

Security
Some minor security enhancements”_


----------



## Triode User

Triode User said:


> Antipodes have announced that 3.12 is being released overnight to fix Squeeze/Squeezelite being able to play 705 and 768kHz files. This fix does not require C-3PO.
> v3.12​_“Squeeze Remote Control
> Some minor updates
> 
> ...


Hmmn, well for me at least this has been a bit of a disaster. 3.12 Squeeze/Squeezelite cannot play PGGB (705/768) files and also it has screwed  up the Material user interface.

How is everyone else getting on with 3.12?


----------



## Ciggavelli

Triode User said:


> Hmmn, well for me at least this has been a bit of a disaster. 3.12 Squeeze/Squeezelite cannot play PGGB (705/768) files and also it has screwed  up the Material user interface.
> 
> How is everyone else getting on with 3.12?


I upgraded a bit ago. I’m using roon as a server with Squeeze Lite as a player. Playback maxes out at 192, like before. I think I’m going to try Roon as a player again and do a comparison.


----------



## kennyb123

Triode User said:


> How is everyone else getting on with 3.12


I'm still on 3.1.  Mark had restored my K30 to that with the expectation that 3.11 would get offered again automatically. I was going to request a session this afternoon to have my K30 brought up to date, but not so sure I will given your reports.  

I have been using Roon with Squeeze and have been hearing great things.  I recently added a few more products from Acoustic Sciences (the Tube Trap company).  They had a Black Friday special on their SubTraps.  While I don't have subs, Jordan from ASC reached out to mention that they could be used under my front stacks to close the gap between the ceiling and the top of the traps.  He said these would improve the bottom two octaves - which they did - but they brought across the board improvements as well.

You can see the SubTrap-18 beneath a stacked pair of 16" Isothermal tube traps below. These things may seem expensive, but they are actually one of the biggest bargains in audio.  They dry up what ASC calls "head end ringing" so that you are hearing more of the direct sound from your speakers.  The following is a list of the improvements I heard just from adding the SubTraps.  Thus with these in place, Roon sounds better than ever - especially since Squeeze is involved.  But I really can't wait to get back to playing my PGGB'd tracks again using Squeeze.

- Better articulation of the low notes with more evenness in the frequency response.  Bass drums are more realistic.
- Less smearing across the board.  There was a moment on a Tony Allen album where he simply taps his drumsticks against each other.  It was scarily-real.
- Natural decay of instruments is easier to observe. 
- Dynamics are more explosive.  Rise times are faster than they’ve ever been.
- Music can be played louder with it just sounding better and better as I crank it up
- Cymbals are reproduced even more realistically 
- Imaging is more holographic and the sound is more forward (in a good way)
- The notes seem more deliberate and better controlled.  Drums have really benefited from this.


----------



## Triode User

I am listening to my K50 using iPeng for the interface for Squeeze/Squeezelite. I can live with that and in some ways it beats the Material interface anyway.

I wanted to test out playing PGGB files so I disconnected the Mscaler. PGGB files are still not working with Squeeze/Squeezelite and I cant be bothered to reconnect the Mscaler so I am listening to some Lute music played by Jakob Lindberg, downloaded from Qobuz (not streamed) at 96kHz. It sounds stunning anyway without any upscaling.

I use the USB output from the K50 taken through a PhoenixUSB and that is connected to an SRC-DX by USB. Then a single BNC is connected from the SRC-DX either straight to the Dave (as it is at the moment) or connected to the Mscaler by BNC which it will be later on. I have tried the BNC output on the K50 but at the moment I think it is beaten by the combination of the K50 USB output, PhoenixUSB and SRC-DX.

I do not miss the Roon interface at all and I am quite content just to select an album and play it all the way through. Just the same as putting a CD on a CD player. Sometimes having the whole of internet streaming at ones fingertips is not the best experience. Less is more, as they say.

At the moment I do miss Antipodes 3.11 which was at least working fine with non PGGB files. ‘Oh Well’, to quote Peter Green if anyone  knows that track. A later line from that track says, “_Don’t ask me what I think of you, I might give the answer you want me to_.”  That line always makes me smile when I hear it. 🤣 👍 Lets see what tomorrow brings with sorting out 3.12.


----------



## Progisus

I feel sorry for Mark. It is Saturday there and he was trying to fix my customs broker issue at 4:00 am so he could talk with Canada. Now the Squeeze issue will also cut into any weekend he has.


----------



## cczero17 (Dec 10, 2021)

Help. Just seen that the EX has a software update to 3.12 however the CX doesn't. Anyway, updated the EX and it says 3.11 not 3.12.....anyway now i can't get any tracks to play when Hqplayer is selected. I change to roon in the menu and it's fine. Any thoughts?


Solved...for some reason, the DAC had changed in the Hqplayer menu. God knows how lol


----------



## td19

Triode User said:


> I have tried looking to see what version of LMS (ie Squeeze server) I have on the K50 server but I cant seem to see where that is listed. Have you seen a way to find that out?
> 
> I have asked Mark Cole on the Antipodes help forum how the overnight pushing of updated apps works and whether it is automatic or whether it depends on Antipodes manually releasing them into the update procedure. For instance some guys are reporting that they received HQP 4.26.2 with the 3.1 roll out but I received version 4.26.0 and it has not automatically updated to 4.26.2.


It has gone back to 1.8.7 from 1.9.9. You should find that C-3PO now works.


----------



## td19

Settings/Library/Basic Settings/Logitech Media Server Status:





Shows versions for Squeezebox Server and also any connected Squeezelites:


----------



## kennyb123

td19 said:


> Settings/Library/Basic Settings/Logitech Media Server Status:


Mark was able to get my K30 upgraded to 3.12.  I was able to enable C-3PO thanks to your assist.  16FS tracks are playing again!!!


----------



## Triode User

kennyb123 said:


> Mark was able to get my K30 upgraded to 3.12.  I was able to enable C-3PO thanks to your assist.  16FS tracks are playing again!!!



Ah, there seems to have been a lapse in communication from Antipodes regarding the 3.12 fix for 705 and 768 files. They said a couple of days ago that the fix would not require C-3PO but they appear to have changed their mind and gone with loading the older version of Squeezelite which can play the higher res files with C-3PO. Hopefully they are still working on a fix for 705 and 768 files that doesn’t mean we can’t get upgrades to Squeezelite as they are released.


----------



## kennyb123

Triode User said:


> They said a couple of days ago that the fix would not require C-3PO but they appear to have changed their mind and gone with loading the older version of Squeezelite which can play the higher res files with C-3PO.


Mark mentioned that he thought he saw it working without C-3PO.  It came as a surprise to him that it was not.



Triode User said:


> Hopefully they are still working on a fix for 705 and 768 files that doesn’t mean we can’t get upgrades to Squeezelite as they are released.


The only reason I wanted an updated version of Squeeze was so I could gain 16FS playback.   Now that I finally have it, I would be more than happy to stay on this version of Squeezelite.  It sounds fantastic.


----------



## Triode User

kennyb123 said:


> Mark mentioned that he thought he saw it working without C-3PO.  It came as a surprise to him that it was not.
> 
> 
> The only reason I wanted an updated version of Squeeze was so I could gain 16FS playback.   Now that I finally have it, I would be more than happy to stay on this version of Squeezelite.  It sounds fantastic.



You will have probably seen on the Antipodes Forum that Mark has confirmed to me that they are still working on a non C-3PO fix for the up to date version of Squeeze so I guess we can regard 3.12 as being a temporary fix. My listening is only partially with PGGB and most of it is either with non upscaled files or with the Mscaler so I am pleased to have it confirmed that we will again get access to the latest versions of Squeeze as and when they are released.

By the way, I have cured my issue with the scrambled display for Material by reinstalling Squeeze and Clearing the Database within the Antipodes Server Dashboard settings. Although I agree the problem seemed typical of a browser cache issue it seems this was not the issue in my case (having tried multiple browsers and cleared their caches with no effect).


----------



## richardloh (Dec 11, 2021)

Oops ... updated to 3.12 for both cx and ex and player cannot be found despite rebooting thrice.

Anyone has the same issue or any instructions on needed setup for noob here before I reach out to Antipodes ?

EX dashboard looks fine and same as when working with 3.11 and should I just reinstall squeezebox from setting of CX dashboard ? Update: clicked on reinstall squeezebox and waiting for last 5 mins with the "clock" looping and fingercrossed .. getting late at 1.48am 😴

Many thanks in advance.  Cheers.

PS: will be leaving Singapore to Sydney for 3 weeks in about 8 hrs time and hope this will get sorted out by then.


----------



## richardloh

Successfully reinstalled squeezebox or so says the msg but no luck and no player msg still .. will let scanning new music files to be completed before rebooting for the last time to get to bed for early morning to airport 🥲


----------



## richardloh (Dec 11, 2021)

Off EX front button + power off switch .. off CX front button + power off switch ... waited for 5 mins before power on CX until online and then power on EX.

But no luck and fatal error of no play still ... time for bed and some rest before trip. 

This is disappointing ....

Btw, what is this C-3P0 about ?

Cheers.


----------



## naynay

Think I will skip 3.12 update.


----------



## richardloh

Mark responded immediately but will have to follow up only in 2-3 weeks' time when I am back home .. understandably need time or online session for resolution.

Cheers.


----------



## td19

With EX sometimes it is worth unplugging the USB from the back of the EX and then reconnecting it, while EX is running. Then restart Squeezelite. Might work.


----------



## richardloh

td19 said:


> With EX sometimes it is worth unplugging the USB from the back of the EX and then reconnecting it, while EX is running. Then restart Squeezelite. Might work.


Hi td19, 

Tks tks but unfortunately at airport now and not able to try this recommendation .. will certainly do so when back. 

Nvr had this issue in last 2 years of owning the Antipodes though including after getting them back after oladra upgrade.

Cheers.


----------



## naynay

Anyone experiencing the player missing in squeeze this was from Mark

we are aware some users are experiencing this.
In the EX go to the Player Dashboard, click the cog by squeeze, for the server enter the system name of the CX followed by .local
Like ... K50server.local
Or.... CX.local
Or....D2.local
Must be the system name of the CX


----------



## richardloh

naynay said:


> Think I will skip 3.12 update.


Hey naynay, 

Tks for sharing Mark's fix ... will try when back. Did you updated, had the same missing reader issue and fixed ?

I will always go for latest since further updates may have less issue since they are the ones that are worked and tested on .. sometimes like this case needing additional fixes.

Cheers.


----------



## naynay

@richardloh 

I updated to 3.11 and could not see the player in Squeeze Marks fix corrected this.

I will wait until the next update as seems to be many issues with 3.12


----------



## richardloh (Dec 13, 2021)

naynay said:


> @richardloh
> 
> I updated to 3.11 and could not see the player in Squeeze Marks fix corrected this.
> 
> I will wait until the next update as seems to be many issues with 3.12


Mine came back after oladra upgrade with 3.11 but will continue with latest and greatest from Mark  ... Antipodes will/have to fix them 😁

Btw, the fix with naming .local for missing player is to fix 3.11 or 3.12 ?

Cheers.


----------



## naynay

Hi richardloh,

I only went to 3.11 upgrade where the player was not working.

Not sure if the fix will work with 3.12 but easy enough to try out.

Thanks.


----------



## richardloh

naynay said:


> Hi richardloh,
> 
> I only went to 3.11 upgrade where the player was not working.
> 
> ...


Aaah .. got it. Maybe not then cos Mark is aware of my missing player issue with 3.11 to 3.12 but did not advised me on this naming .local fix.  

Unfortunately, I cannot help here since wun be home till 31 Dec 2021 by which I believe more owners will be affected when upgraded to 3.12 and Mark would have fixed it.

Cheers.


----------



## naynay

Anyone still on 3.11 finding the update later button not working so not able to get into the server settings page to change players?
Happens the same with both servers.


----------



## andrewd01

naynay said:


> Anyone still on 3.11 finding the update later button not working so not able to get into the server settings page to change players?
> Happens the same with both servers.


I just tried mine and it does seem that you get stuck in a loop.

I  hope that antipodes settles into a more stable and infrequent schedule for software updates.  I hate having to constantly faff around with software, I just want to listen to music.  Ideally there should be no more than two updates per year, each release would have thousands of hours testing before release to make sure there are no unexpected surprises.

For those that like tinkering, maybe there could be an optional beta testing group, where you choose to participate at own risk.


----------



## Triode User

andrewd01 said:


> I just tried mine and it does seem that you get stuck in a loop.
> 
> I  hope that antipodes settles into a more stable and infrequent schedule for software updates.  I hate having to constantly faff around with software, I just want to listen to music.  Ideally there should be no more than two updates per year, each release would have thousands of hours testing before release to make sure there are no unexpected surprises.
> 
> For those that like tinkering, maybe there could be an optional beta testing group, where you choose to participate at own risk.


I lived through the Innuos big software upgrade and know that with a radical upgrade such as 3.1 there are almost bound to be a series of fine tuning upgrades during the first few weeks. Innous issued 8 tweaking upgrades in as many weeks and whilst it is a slight hassle I think we have to live with this fact of life. Smallish hifi companies simply do not have the resources to devote thousands of hours to bug finding each and every release.

When we get to 3.16 then I agree that maybe two releases per year but until then I for one will not skip any Antipodes releases because they are bug fixing as well as feature fixing and it seems folly to not take advantage of the bug fixes.


----------



## Whazzzup

i view upgrading as an opportunity, i would always opt in. Granted not a beta user.


----------



## andrewd01

Mine is working fine on 3.1 with the apps I use so I will probably leave it alone for a couple of months until things settle down.  It does block me from changing any settings but I shouldn’t need to do that anyway.  

Hopefully the stuck in a loop bug is on their radar so the decision to not install a particular software update doesn’t affect your ability to use the version installed.


----------



## richardloh (Dec 16, 2021)

naynay said:


> Anyone still on 3.11 finding the update later button not working so not able to get into the server settings page to change players?
> Happens the same with both servers.


I was on 3.11 from oladra upgrade and I was prompted when I went to myantipodes to upgrade to 3.12 (screenshots of my earlier posts) for both cx and ex without issue of infinite loop except the mentioned missed reader issue that I had reached out to Mark with his immediate response albeit not at home to troubleshoot further until Jan 2022.

Cheers.


----------



## richardloh

naynay said:


> Anyone experiencing the player missing in squeeze this was from Mark
> 
> we are aware some users are experiencing this.
> In the EX go to the Player Dashboard, click the cog by squeeze, for the server enter the system name of the CX followed by .local
> ...


Hey naynay,

It worked !! typed CX.local and it becomes CXlocal with missing "dot" but glorious music is back !!  Had not tried any further to know any other issues but key functionallity of squeezer app on my andorid phone works and so did Qobuz.  Many thanks for the shared fix and I will keep Mark informed.

Cheers,

Richard


----------



## naynay

richardloh said:


> Hey naynay,
> 
> It worked !! typed CX.local and it becomes CXlocal with missing "dot" but glorious music is back !!  Had not tried any further to know any other issues but key functionallity of squeezer app on my andorid phone works and so did Qobuz.  Many thanks for the shared fix and I will keep Mark informed.
> 
> ...


Hi Richard,

Nice to hear that solved your issue.
That's what's good about having these forum's and everyone adding a bit of information.

Thanks
Nay


----------



## Triode User

PRICE RISES and NEW MODELS

I see that Antipodes have announced the introduction of the K41 and K21. 

They say.

“_The Antipodes K41 is equivalent to the Server engine in the latest K50, and provides the ultimate Server to play to the Ethernet input on your DAC, or to a K21._”
https://antipodes.audio/antipodes-k41

“_The K21 is the latest evolution of the DX, but with more power, dynamics, resolution and realism.
Upgrade the K21 later by adding a K41 to achieve K50-level USB performance._”
https://antipodes.audio/antipodes-k21

Unfortunately it appears that the Covid induced components cost has taken its toll on the Antipodes prices as well. Mostly it looks like 10%.


----------



## Clive101

Triode User said:


> “_The Antipodes K41 is equivalent to the Server engine in the latest K50, and provides the ultimate Server to play to the Ethernet input on your DAC, or to a K21._”
> https://antipodes.audio/antipodes-k41
> 
> “_The K21 is the latest evolution of the DX, but with more power, dynamics, resolution and realism.
> ...



I see no reason value wise to purchase the K41 and K21 for 21.5 k if it equals the K50 in SQ but the K combo does not offer digital BNC out and you need two mains cables ...!
I guess the K41 and K21 are the CX EX updated version but for more money than a K50.
I must admit purchasing the combo together makes no sense to me.....unless it is a delayed upgrade path perhaps ?


----------



## Triode User (Dec 22, 2021)

Clive101 said:


> I see no reason value wise to purchase the K41 and K21 for 21.5 k if it equals the K50 in SQ but the K combo does not offer digital BNC out and you need two mains cables ...!
> I guess the K41 and K21 are the CX EX updated version but for more money than a K50.
> I must admit purchasing the combo together makes no sense to me.....unless it is a delayed upgrade path perhaps ?


Good morning Clive,

K41 (10k) + K21 (6.5k) = 16.5k and not the 21.5k you mentioned. So someone purchasing a K21 can later add a K41 and get K50 USB performance for 1k less than a K50 cost (17.5k after 1 Feb).


----------



## naynay

I wonder why all latest models have reverted back to single USB Audio output? I believe most models up until CX and EX had Two USB Audio outputs.

I find the two useful if you use USB input for Hugo M Scaler and also use USB into SCR-DX as you can have the two pairs of coaxial cables going into each pair of BNC inputs on the Dave.


----------



## Clive101

Triode User said:


> Good morning Clive,
> 
> K41 (10k) + K21 (6.5k) = 16.5k and not the 21.5k you mentioned. So someone purchasing a K21 can later add a K41 and get K50 USB performance for 1k less than a K50 cost (17.5k after 1 Feb).


Good Morning and Season Greetings, thank you for the revised calculation Nick.
 As "Captain Mannering"  once said "I wondered when someone would spot the mistake"   

Still no BNC though and I find this in a different league.


----------



## richardloh

1k for addition


Triode User said:


> Good morning Clive,
> 
> K41 (10k) + K21 (6.5k) = 16.5k and not the 21.5k you mentioned. So someone purchasing a K21 can later add a K41 and get K50 USB performance for 1k less than a K50 cost (17.5k after 1 Feb).



$1k for additional main cable ? 😅


----------



## naynay

Would the K41 not benefit those with Ethernet Dac's looking for the top tier sound but for much less?


----------



## Progisus

By the time I get my K30 out of customs it will probably be obsolete. Over a month from order. Not happy with the Antipodes / DHL relationship.


----------



## Whazzzup

Curious did you get a deal by going direct, I use hifi Center in Vancouver to get delivery for antipodes in Canada. Granted it’s 2-5 days dealing with the level of expedition.  Plus paid in cad but with full markup….


----------



## Progisus

Whazzzup said:


> Curious did you get a deal by going direct, I use hifi Center in Vancouver to get delivery for antipodes in Canada. Granted it’s 2-5 days dealing with the level of expedition.  Plus paid in cad but with full markup….


Hifi Centre had just been isolated with storm washouts and they had no stock so I went with the direct buy option. I’m sure you will get yours out of customs with no trouble. Antipodes pays all taxes and duties on direct but and DHL brokerage just can’t seem to understand. Live and learn. At least I have the EX and with the software and roon upgrades it has sped up substantially. I did not get a deal. 10K US dollars


----------



## andrewd01

Those prices quoted on Antipodes web site are before tariffs and taxes, so I would not be surprised if street prices in the US will be close to $21k.  Certainly the Uk price is very likely to be the same number but in pounds so the pair will cost £16.5k which is about $22k.

I have no interest in upgrading my CX/EX unless my Euromillions numbers come up.  It becomes a very expensive exercise chasing the absolute cutting edge, especially when this changes every 12 months. I am already very happy with the sound I have.


----------



## naynay

Everything is getting crazy priced now look at most of the latest Headphone releases.


----------



## 7ryder

Whazzzup said:


> Curious did you get a deal by going direct, I use hifi Center in Vancouver to get delivery for antipodes in Canada. Granted it’s 2-5 days dealing with the level of expedition.  Plus paid in cad but with full markup….


You won't get a deal buying direct, they only sell at MSRP. Better to go through a dealer.


----------



## kennyb123

naynay said:


> I wonder why all latest models have reverted back to single USB Audio output?


Covid and the unavailability of parts would be my guess.


----------



## kennyb123 (Dec 22, 2021)

Progisus said:


> Over a month from order. Not happy with the Antipodes / DHL relationship.


I think mine took about that long.  Customs was the bottleneck in my case.


----------



## 7ryder

andrewd01 said:


> Those prices quoted on Antipodes web site are before tariffs and taxes, so I would not be surprised if street prices in the US will be close to $21k.  Certainly the Uk price is very likely to be the same number but in pounds so the pair will cost £16.5k which is about $22k.
> 
> I have no interest in upgrading my CX/EX unless my Euromillions numbers come up.  It becomes a very expensive exercise chasing the absolute cutting edge, especially when this changes every 12 months. I am already very happy with the sound I have.


While you'll pay some duty fees (maybe) by buying from a dealer in the US, if you order directly from Antipodes, you won't pay any more than the published price on their website - they pick up shipping fees, import fees, etc.

That said, if street prices do start to creep up into the low twenty thousand US dollar range, it's not that much more to go for a Taiko Exteme...


----------



## kennyb123

7ryder said:


> That said, if street prices do start to creep up into the low twenty thousand US dollar range, it's not that much more to go for a Taiko Exteme...


Inflation tends to get applied across the board, so I’d expect the price of the Extreme is climbing as well at possibly the same rate.


----------



## 7ryder (Dec 22, 2021)

Perhaps, but (hypothetically) if the price for a K50 goes up from $15K USD to $21K, that's a 40% increase, obviously more a more a supply chain issue than inflation.


----------



## Triode User

7ryder said:


> Perhaps, but (hypothetically) if the price for a K50 goes up from $15K USD to $21K, that's a 40% increase, obviously more a more a supply chain issue than inflation.



Did I miss something? In the uk the K50 will be going from £15k ukp to £17.5k ukp. inc tax etc, ie just over 15%. What is the current retail price for a K50 in the US?


----------



## kennyb123

Triode User said:


> What is the current retail price for a K50 in the US?


$15,000 but increasing to $17,500.


----------



## Progisus

kennyb123 said:


> I think mine took about that long.  Customs was the bottleneck in my case


Thanks Kenny. That is reassuring.


----------



## Whazzzup

My DX got put on hold in Cincinnati? it Was moving to fast I guess


----------



## richardloh (Dec 22, 2021)

andrewd01 said:


> Those prices quoted on Antipodes web site are before tariffs and taxes, so I would not be surprised if street prices in the US will be close to $21k.  Certainly the Uk price is very likely to be the same number but in pounds so the pair will cost £16.5k which is about $22k.
> 
> I have no interest in upgrading my CX/EX unless my Euromillions numbers come up.  It becomes a very expensive exercise chasing the absolute cutting edge, especially when this changes every 12 months. I am already very happy with the sound I have.


Indeed and no regret having oladra upgrade for my ex/cx stack especially now with etherregen and cheap chinese oxco clock between them as well as blue leds finally !😃

Earlier retirement than planned at 59 yrs old and pursue of other new cheaper interest/mods of Titanium bikes (healthier and lost 10 kg in last 10 mths with lower cholesterol, sugar level and bp) certainly help the decision making of more $ into hifi marathon henceforth 🥲


----------



## Whazzzup

Retired at 42 myself, now 59. No bikes but on full regiment of medication, levels are great tho. 👍🏃


----------



## richardloh

Whazzzup said:


> Retired at 42 myself, now 59. No bikes but on full regiment of medication, levels are great tho. 👍🏃


Cool ... do consider biking especially Titanium ones .. can mod to wireless shifting, wireless dropper post etc. 😍

Fresh air, touring to forgotten places missed when driving, work your heart and limbs to stay nimble and not seated on couch for hifi and work on ears and fingers for hifi forums only ... especially for ageing retirees like us 😊


----------



## Triode User

It might point to me being slightly superficial but I decided to make a couple of system changes to ensure my equipment is the now all the same colour. As a result I will be listing my own personal immaculate black K50 (new June 2021) for sale. It is replaced by a silver K50!. If anyone in the UK is interested they can pick up a bargain at under £9k including next day courier delivery . . . .


----------



## Whazzzup

Color coordination is important. I’m all black, down to cables. Little hit of Hawaiian koa on my th900 and silver on hd800S.


----------



## naynay

Anyone know if you can adjust the settings in Squeeze so as when a song is playing it shows the sample rate?


----------



## Whazzzup

I used squeeze once, didn’t find any Way to view or adjust sample rate or speed. Switched back to roon so I could see and adjust dsp. But I didn’t know what I was doing. Mark likes squeeze I guess cause he set It up by remote any desk. when I get my DX back I’ll try more options


----------



## Triode User (Dec 23, 2021)

naynay said:


> Anyone know if you can adjust the settings in Squeeze so as when a song is playing it shows the sample rate?



Are you using Material for track seletion and playing? The listing of the tracks in the album shows the sample rate for each track (on left of my attached screenshot). The sample rate for the actual track playing is shown bottom right.



Whazzzup said:


> I used squeeze once, didn’t find any Way to view or adjust sample rate or speed. Switched back to roon so I could see and adjust dsp. But I didn’t know what I was doing. Mark likes squeeze I guess cause he set It up by remote any desk. when I get my DX back I’ll try more options


See above for viewing the sample rates. There should not be any need to adjust the sample rate unless perhaps if using HQP but that is a different ballgame. The whole point is that you send the audio file ‘as is’ either to an mscaler or dac.

Mark is not the only one who prefers Squeeze / Squeezelite. Indeed I was speaking to my Antipodes dealer in the UK yesterday and they also confirmed it is their favourite for sound quality and much preferred compared to Roon. It is certainly my favourite.


----------



## naynay

I was hoping this information would show on the android orange squeeze app when playing music is this not possible?


----------



## Triode User

naynay said:


> I was hoping this information would show on the android orange squeeze app when playing music is this not possible?


Sorry, I have no experience of Android apps. Are you using a phone or a tablet? With either could you use a browser and access Material on that?


----------



## naynay

I will try access by browser.


----------



## kennyb123

Triode User said:


> It might point to me being slightly superficial but I decided to make a couple of system changes to ensure my equipment is the now all the same colour.


No not superficial at all!   I really want to do this but unfortunately I can't presently justify the cost.  

Any chance you will post a photo once the silver K50 is in place?


----------



## Triode User

kennyb123 said:


> No not superficial at all!   I really want to do this but unfortunately I can't presently justify the cost.
> 
> Any chance you will post a photo once the silver K50 is in place?


Of course!


----------



## richardloh (Dec 23, 2021)

naynay said:


> Anyone know if you can adjust the settings in Squeeze so as when a song is playing it shows the sample rate?


I use foc and stable squeezer android app from day 1 on my phones and sample rate can be checked under "more info" when I hit the 3 dots on the right. Cheers.


----------



## Ciggavelli

The price increases are bad for new buyers, but good for those who currently own an Antipodes setup. Our resale values just went up


----------



## kennyb123

It used to be that the K50 was $5000 more than the K30.  Soon it will be $6500 more.  The changes they made to the K50 must have been extensive.

I wonder what the picture will look like a year from today.  Should parts start flowing again I wonder if we’d actually see the prices drop.


----------



## andrewd01

Ciggavelli said:


> The price increases are bad for new buyers, but good for those who currently own an Antipodes setup. Our resale values just went up



I would not recommend Antipodes products as an investment   The upgrade cycle is too fast. I bought my EX-CX pair at around 50% full retail and they were only a year old.  I see 6 month old K50’s selling for 60% of the new price.

Chord products seem to a better investment since used products seem to sell for around 80% of the new price.


----------



## Triode User

My K50 is now listed.

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/antipodes-k50-black-6-months-old.16850/


----------



## Ciggavelli

Triode User said:


> My K50 is now listed.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/antipodes-k50-black-6-months-old.16850/


That’s a helluva deal


----------



## Triode User

Ciggavelli said:


> That’s a helluva deal


I’m passing on the deal i got with my ‘new to me’ silver one. Maybe I should be profiteering. Dont tempt me!


----------



## coldbru

naynay said:


> Anyone still on 3.11 finding the update later button not working so not able to get into the server settings page to change players?
> Happens the same with both servers.


yep. Mark Cole passed it along to the devs, hope it will get fixed in future.


----------



## Triode User

Triode User said:


> My K50 is now listed.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/antipodes-k50-black-6-months-old.16850/


Withdrawn from sale whilst I sort some issues with the replacement K50.


----------



## Progisus

Happy New Year. 

New Years Eve and DHL finally delivered my K30. I am not sure I would of ever got it if I hadn’t intervened with DHL directly. I am not happy with the direct ordering from start to finish. It may be a one off so hopefully others find it otherwise.

As far as the K30… 😮 a definite upgrade to the EX (without Oladara) and several posters say it even gets better with burn in. My ssd from the EX was plug and play. As we are all hunkering down due to Comicron I plan on spending time learning all the ins and outs. Time for a libation.


----------



## Progisus

I noticed the supplied ethernet cable is STP. I’ve always used UTP to prevent ground loops. Does anyone know Antipodes thoughts on this? BTW… best supplied tool ever is the gizmo for removing the ssd drives. Wish there was one with the EX as I resorted to channel locks and a bit of rubber to get them out at tines.


----------



## Clive101

Progisus said:


> I noticed the supplied ethernet cable is STP. I’ve always used UTP to prevent ground loops. Does anyone know Antipodes thoughts on this? BTW… best supplied tool ever is the gizmo for removing the ssd drives. Wish there was one with the EX as I resorted to channel locks and a bit of rubber to get them out at tines.


For me the supplied ethernet cable was the best sounding in my system I tried several others....surprisingly the free one was the best, I compared up to a range costing £1500.00, Hope that helps...


----------



## richardloh

"Antipodes LED sequencing"

Had a bit of trouble with led status on my CX that I never power off when I returned home earlier this week with music still playing .. it was amber and even off after I meddle a bit. Mark had kindly advised that it may had been somehow out of sync for whatever reason.

Hope below which I redrafted will help some since I googled and checked Antipodes documentation but had somehow failed to find out what Mark quickly responded as usual for the appreciated support.

Cheers.

*Startup:
Click the front panel power button - hold it in for one second and then release. The Ready LED will begin to flash. When it has stopped flashing your AMS is ready to use.

Shutdown:
Click the front panel power button - hold it in for one second and then release. The Standby LED will begin to flash. When it has stopped flashing your AMS is shutdown. Never remove power from the AMS until shutdown is complete.

LED off:
Some users will wish to turn off the LED lights, particularly in a home theatre situation. To do so, simply use a very short click of the front panel Power Button. The next time you do one second click, the LEDs will light again*


----------



## Progisus

Firstly I will admit that Squeeze sound is superior to roon but…. their gui just sucks. I have set up Tidal, Qobuz and arranged the top menu as best I can but the user experience is way, way down the list of software I am experienced with. Even less than Amarra. I realize it has been out of service for years and many open source programmers have tried to maintain it but roon is lightyears ahead. Antipodes have done a good job of modifying the Material skin to make it useable for those you absolutely need the sound uptick. Imho if one is interested in new music discovery then roon is the only choice.

I now see what Ken and Nick have been saying about the MPD library integration on the dual computer machines. I was really hoping I would have had direct access to my library as I had withe EX. Maybe Antipodes can find a way around this as I still prefer that sound for my pggb files.

I was going to try Plex on the K30 but running it on my Synology 920+ is the best user experience I have had. FWIW I use an Nvidia shield for playback will full passthrough. 

One last thing… To make your roon remotes (ios) even snappier, go into settings, roon and tell it to reset roon on next startup.


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> Firstly I will admit that Squeeze sound is superior to roon but…. their gui just sucks. I have set up Tidal, Qobuz and arranged the top menu as best I can but the user experience is way, way down the list of software I am experienced with. Even less than Amarra. I realize it has been out of service for years and many open source programmers have tried to maintain it but roon is lightyears ahead. Antipodes have done a good job of modifying the Material skin to make it useable for those you absolutely need the sound uptick. Imho if one is interested in new music discovery then roon is the only choice.


When I don't know what I want to hear, I go to Roon.  Such a vast difference in usability, despite the Material skin seeming to have so much potential.  

Taiko mentioned that they have actually hired a UX design team for their upcoming Extreme-only music app.  I have a feeling that it's going to be a very special application but unfortunately the cost of entry is well beyond my means as it will only run on an Extreme.

@Progisus which player are you using when you run Roon?


----------



## Progisus

kennyb123 said:


> When I don't know what I want to hear, I go to Roon.  Such a vast difference in usability, despite the Material skin seeming to have so much potential.
> 
> Taiko mentioned that they have actually hired a UX design team for their upcoming Extreme-only music app.  I have a feeling that it's going to be a very special application but unfortunately the cost of entry is well beyond my means as it will only run on an Extreme.
> 
> @Progisus which player are you using when you run Roon?



I alternate between roon ready and roon/hqplayer none,none,0db . Since the latest roon update I felt the highs have more sparkle with roon ready. I am feeding it to an mscaler but if it was not there for upscaling I liked the gauss filters.


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> Since the latest roon update I felt the highs have more sparkle with roon ready.


Emile at Taiko mentioned recently as well that Roon Ready has become favored amongst his customers.


----------



## Triode User

Progisus said:


> I now see what Ken and Nick have been saying about the MPD library integration on the dual computer machines.


I used MPD before the release of the latest Antipodes software which allowed access to the later versions of Squeeze/Squeezelite. I no longer use MPD because it’s sound quality is not in the same area as Squeeze/Squeezelite.

is it time for me to fire up Roon again?


----------



## kennyb123

Triode User said:


> is it time for me to fire up Roon again?


It's a lot better but I still don't think you'll like it.  I think you're more sensitive to the harm it does than I am.  I have been using Roon all week.


----------



## naynay

I was wondering if one of these JCAT OPTIMO nano was used in the CX to power the two SSD drives which you can specify at checkout and if you would hear any improvement.

Easy to install just a case of plugging in the wires and enough internal space inside CX.


----------



## richardloh

naynay said:


> I was wondering if one of these JCAT OPTIMO nano was used in the CX to power the two SSD drives which you can specify at checkout and if you would hear any improvement.
> 
> Easy to install just a case of plugging in the wires and enough internal space inside CX.


Hey Naynay,

Think will not be significant since not with Dueland silver dc cables that improves SQ by 50% and only uses 20 cents Molex 4LP tin plated pins and not Mundorf silver ones that increases another 50% 🤣

Disclaimer: Ex Molex employee


----------



## Clive101

Happy New Year Everyone
Is anyone using a CD transport along side their Antipodes if so I would like to know if there was a SQ uplift?
I have a K50 and just wondered if it was worth buying one.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## richardloh (Jan 16, 2022)

Clive101 said:


> Happy New Year Everyone
> Is anyone using a CD transport along side their Antipodes if so I would like to know if there was a SQ uplift?
> I have a K50 and just wondered if it was worth buying one.
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.


Hi Clive,

I am using the Denafrips Avatar transport synced to upgraded oxco of my upgraded Denafrips Tplus dac with Mundorf caps and not sure how it compares to your K50.

However it sure sounds better or at least preferrable for my serious listening than ripped files in internal SSD in my oladra upgraded cx+ex stack which cannot be synced to mentioned  the Denafrip Tplus.

For me, it is the convenience of a media streamer like Antipodes and not its SQ ... I listen also a lot to local FM stations via my Bel Canto FM1 that also sounds much better than low bitrate of 64acc max of these stations via internet streaming from the Antipodes that I certainly do not prefer.

YYMV since system config differs.

Cheers.

Richard


----------



## naynay (Jan 16, 2022)

Triode User said:


> It might point to me being slightly superficial but I decided to make a couple of system changes to ensure my equipment is the now all the same colour. As a result I will be listing my own personal immaculate black K50 (new June 2021) for sale. It is replaced by a silver K50!. If anyone in the UK is interested they can pick up a bargain at under £9k including next day courier delivery . . . .


Didn't you sell your silver Dave Dac and replaced it with a black one towards end of last year so it would colour match 🤔


----------



## Progisus

I’ve heard the silver versions of Antipodes are brighter sounding and show fingerprints easier.


----------



## 7ryder

Progisus said:


> I’ve heard the silver versions of Antipodes are brighter sounding and show fingerprints easier.


Yes, I've noticed deeper blacks with my black K50


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> show fingerprints easier


I once received a component that shipped with cotton gloves.  It might have been for handling the tubes but I really don’t recall.


----------



## Triode User

naynay said:


> Didn't you sell your silver Dave Dac and replaced it with a black one towards end of last year so it would colour match 🤔


An almost new silver Dave came up second hand at a price that was difficult to resist.


----------



## naynay

Triode User said:


> An almost new silver Dave came up second hand at a price that was difficult to resist.


I thought you sold a Silver Dave a few months ago?


----------



## 7ryder

kennyb123 said:


> I once received a component that shipped with cotton gloves.  It might have been for handling the tubes but I really don’t recall.


My JL Audio subs came with gloves like that


----------



## Presence

7ryder said:


> My JL Audio subs came with gloves like that


I had to supply my own rubber gloves for my AGD R8HE DAC because ASR said it was a POS...


----------



## Presence (Jan 18, 2022)

Fiber Ethernet Isolation between CX/EX...

I bought a pair of B Stock MC100CM TP-Link Fast Ethernet SFP to RJ45 Fiber Media Converters for $28/Amazon to galvanically isolate the Ethernet between CX and EX with positive effect. I continued to use the EtherRegens with 10M external clock before the EX input.
I used separate power supplies for the CX side and the EX side. I started with a 6V lead-acid on the EX side to learn that the supplied non earth-grounded wall-wart SMPS sounded much cleaner. Then I tapped off the Hypsos outputing 5V that powers my SingXer SU-2 DDI and that sounded best.

On another note and as an addendum to my observations between Hypsos and the S60, here is a view under the cover of the S60 which is visually identical to the CX/EX PS upgrade...
​


----------



## Whazzzup

With oladra upgrade and of course the k series that already has the new motherboards and power supply that specializes in two discreet areas. does one need any other power supply or reclocker like Phoenix. I’m just getting used to my oladra DX and it’s powerful, acute, and no noise. Seems like it’s already in a sweet spot?


----------



## Presence

Whazzzup said:


> With oladra upgrade and of course the k series that already has the new motherboards and power supply that specializes in two discreet areas. does one need any other power supply or reclocker like Phoenix. I’m just getting used to my oladra DX and it’s powerful, acute, and no noise. Seems like it’s already in a sweet spot?


My answer to you is, if you are already comfortably abiding in right-brain listening and fully absorbed in the experience, you don't need anything and should continue to be a connoisseur of those experiences. You are a very fortunate soul if that is your lot. If you are like me and analyzing everything, discontent 80% of the time after the newness of the last upgrade wears off, you might have to accept the eternal merry-go-round of wondering what's the next possibility that brings me closer to the elusive audio nirvana.... L.O.L.  

If you have the funds, I found the Phoenix a mandatory component and possibly the most significant jump in sound quality in my system [at least at the time].
I recall reading that Uptone Audio is working on some next gen USB Regen products in the EtherRegen price range. If you happen to speak with Alex, I'd bet there are a few members here that would be interested if Alex spills the beans in terms of expected product availability and their clocking....

Great to converse with you Whazzzup!


----------



## andrewd01

I notice that the my antipodes web site is now white text on a white background!! Impossible to read.
Does anyone else have this problem?  Maybe it is related to ipados15 which is a crap sandwich


----------



## Whazzzup

nope sorry its the sandwich


----------



## andrewd01

Bizarrely, it is now back to normal!


----------



## Triode User

Presence said:


> My answer to you is, if you are already comfortably abiding in right-brain listening and fully absorbed in the experience, you don't need anything and should continue to be a connoisseur of those experiences. You are a very fortunate soul if that is your lot. If you are like me and analyzing everything, discontent 80% of the time after the newness of the last upgrade wears off, you might have to accept the eternal merry-go-round of wondering what's the next possibility that brings me closer to the elusive audio nirvana.... L.O.L.
> 
> If you have the funds, I found the Phoenix a mandatory component and possibly the most significant jump in sound quality in my system [at least at the time].
> I recall reading that Uptone Audio is working on some next gen USB Regen products in the EtherRegen price range. If you happen to speak with Alex, I'd bet there are a few members here that would be interested if Alex spills the beans in terms of expected product availability and their clocking....
> ...


@Whazzzup I agree with all that. I would also add one of my favourite quotes which is “Comparison is the thief of joy”.

If you are happy with your sound log off all hifi forums, stop comparing and sit back content that you have a marvellous system.

Or, prepare your wallet for action because I have also found that the PhoenixUSB does improve the sound quality of the usb output from my K50 and that the PhoenixNET has at least the same amount of improvement when used to connect the K50 to my router. Was I unhappy with the sound before these? Of course not but once heard it is difficult to go back.

But then I am now retrying the BNC output from my new K50 to connect to my Mscaler instead of usb. 😀😀😤

Like I said, “Comparison is the thief of joy”.


----------



## Whazzzup

Phoenix is under future consideration, thx


----------



## richardloh

Whazzzup said:


> Phoenix is under future consideration, thx


If not for having other sources especially fav fm tuner via ddc and Avatar transport synced to upgraded oxco clock of Terminator Plus, the dream tot will be ditch all and get a dac with ethernet input to escape seemingly dreaded usb connection instead of more into usb based products ? 🥲


----------



## Whazzzup (Jan 25, 2022)

For right now, got to play out usb, and yes just looking for mid fi solutions but right now, hard to find problems frankly.... This is a good thing and a testament to antipodes and upgrade program... Im sure future DACs will incorporate stuff that makes the spaghetti western behind the dac, unnecessary. Right now, direct seems fine. Realize 4 g for phoenix then another 2500 for the smallest chord sarum T digital super array usb, so no rush...


----------



## richardloh

Whazzzup said:


> Right now, direct seems fine. Realize 4 g for phoenix then another 2500 for the smallest chord sarum T digital super array usb, so no rush...


Just in case you missed this one ... hence my 2x ERs with some cool stuff from John and Alex ... this hobby is nvr hiend to me but no end especially after visiting several time of local owner with 1kk system of full FM Accoustic .. anniversary versions for some 🤦‍♂️


----------



## Triode User

Whazzzup said:


> Realize 4 g for phoenix then another 2500 for the smallest chord sarum T digital super array usb, so no rush...


My favoured usb cable is the Sablon Evo. Better sound at a fraction of the Sarum T.


----------



## Presence (Jan 29, 2022)

andrewd01 said:


> I notice that the my antipodes web site is now white text on a white background!! Impossible to read.
> Does anyone else have this problem?  Maybe it is related to ipados15 which is a crap sandwich


Yes, I noticed this on My Antipodes using Windows laptop this morning....


----------



## richardloh (Jan 29, 2022)

Presence said:


> Yes, I noticed this on My Antipodes this morning....


Me too since yesterday on windows laptop !  🥲

But I use free Squeezer program on old android phone daily and not adversely affected 🥳


----------



## marcmccalmont (Jan 29, 2022)

Just ordered a K50. I need to purchase a ssd, any advice is there a difference among brands/levels in sound quality? Any setup advice is appreciated, also SQ from an onboard library is most important to me, streaming is secondary.


----------



## Whazzzup

It’s all about size and speed and price. How big, how fast, how much. There all silent and would sound the same.


----------



## marcmccalmont

Has anyone compared Samsung 870 evo vs 860 pro?


----------



## Triode User

marcmccalmont said:


> Just ordered a K50. I need to purchase a ssd, any advice is there a difference among brands/levels in sound quality? Any setup advice is appreciated, also SQ from an onboard library is most important to me, streaming is secondary.


Mark Cole from Antipodes responded on their own support forum not long ago saying, “Samsung QVO / EVO SSD’s are recommended”


----------



## marcmccalmont

Triode User said:


> Mark Cole from Antipodes responded on their own support forum not long ago saying, “Samsung QVO / EVO SSD’s are recommended”


I did read that but Samsung 860 pro’s are single level nand so more reliable and inherently faster with less errors? I’m not sure why quad level qvo’s are recommended as Samsung states these are least reliable with a shorter warranty????


----------



## naynay

marcmccalmont said:


> I did read that but Samsung 860 pro’s are single level nand so more reliable and inherently faster with less errors? I’m not sure why quad level qvo’s are recommended as Samsung states these are least reliable with a shorter warranty????


I would say they recommended those due to there low cost.


----------



## Triode User

marcmccalmont said:


> I did read that but Samsung 860 pro’s are single level nand so more reliable and inherently faster with less errors? I’m not sure why quad level qvo’s are recommended as Samsung states these are least reliable with a shorter warranty????


 Always best to ask the source rather than the messenger. 😜

I will message you with Mark Cole’s email and probably best to ask him.


----------



## Presence (Jan 29, 2022)

Whazzzup said:


> For right now, got to play out usb, and yes just looking for mid fi solutions but right now, hard to find problems frankly.... This is a good thing and a testament to antipodes and upgrade program... Im sure future DACs will incorporate stuff that makes the spaghetti western behind the dac, unnecessary. Right now, direct seems fine. Realize 4 g for phoenix then another 2500 for the smallest chord sarum T digital super array usb, so no rush...


Data Point:
When I had the DX3, I purchased a used 1st Gen. Auralic Aries[?] player so the DX3 would function as Server-only.
On the original Antipodes Website Forum [2017?], another user tried this and reported very noticeable SQ improvement.
I recall a solid 20% jump in SQ which put me on the Antipodes upgrade path. At that time, Mark J asserted that there would be a 35% SQ improvement replacing the DX3 with CX and another 15% SQ improvement above that adding the EX player and I found his assertion to be correct.
Percentage improvements are relative and I wouldn't know how this stands up today with current DX3 and PS upgrade.
I was able to resell the Auralic at the used purchase price.
If you could borrow a player or find a used one for several hundred dollars, it might be of interest to try it out.

I feel Triode User is right about “Comparison is the thief of joy” and I feel guilty impinging upon your "Garden of Listening"


----------



## Whazzzup

Presence said:


> Data Point:
> When I had the DX3, I purchased a used 1st Gen. Auralic Aries[?] player so the DX3 would function as Server-only.
> On the original Antipodes Website Forum [2017?], another user tried this and reported very noticeable SQ improvement.
> I recall a solid 20% jump in SQ which put me on the Antipodes upgrade path. At that time, Mark J asserted that there would be a 35% SQ improvement replacing the DX3 with CX and another 15% SQ improvement above that adding the EX player and I found his assertion to be correct.
> ...


Thx, I’ll consider this as well. Still getting into the oladra upgrade at present and my desktop speakers burned out, so I also have to consider new wireless solution for that. I started a Kef Ls50 wireless II thread to explore just that, or report on it eventually, or whatever. So another box between dx3 and tt will wait….


----------



## Presence

Whazzzup said:


> Thx, I’ll consider this as well. Still getting into the oladra upgrade at present and my desktop speakers burned out, so I also have to consider new wireless solution for that. I started a Kef Ls50 wireless II thread to explore just that, or report on it eventually, or whatever. So another box between dx3 and tt will wait….


I recall the KEF LS50 Meta received a very favorable review in Stereophile - https://www.stereophile.com/content/kef-ls50-meta-loudspeaker


----------



## marcmccalmont (Jan 29, 2022)

Triode User said:


> Always best to ask the source rather than the messenger. 😜
> 
> I will message you with Mark Cole’s email and probably best to ask him.


I got an email from Marc Cole stating evo or qvo is recommended but pro is fine to use and compatible so I ordered the faster more reliable pro version more expensive but I think for a 24/7 year after year application it’s worth the extra $$$ Time will tell!


----------



## Ciggavelli (Jan 29, 2022)

marcmccalmont said:


> I did read that but Samsung 860 pro’s are single level nand so more reliable and inherently faster with less errors? I’m not sure why quad level qvo’s are recommended as Samsung states these are least reliable with a shorter warranty????


I have two 8tb QVOs in my K50, for one simple reason, you can't get 8tb ssds with evo or pro.  I have an extremely large library of currently around 13tb.  Three 4tb Evos or Pros just won't cut it for me.  I'll likely get another 8tb QVO as my library expands as well


----------



## richardloh (Jan 30, 2022)

Presence said:


> Data Point:
> When I had the DX3, I purchased a used 1st Gen. Auralic Aries[?] player so the DX3 would function as Server-only.
> On the original Antipodes Website Forum [2017?], another user tried this and reported very noticeable SQ improvement.
> I recall a solid 20% jump in SQ which put me on the Antipodes upgrade path. At that time, Mark J asserted that there would be a 35% SQ improvement replacing the DX3 with CX and another 15% SQ improvement above that adding the EX player and I found his assertion to be correct.
> ...


And then there is oladra upgrade for another 50% for 80-90% of K50 with my EX+CX stack? DX3 must be 10% of K50 ?  🤔🤔

What I can share is that having ER and AD oxco clock between the CX server and EX player made notable improvement. 🥳🥳


----------



## richardloh

To our Chinese crowd and all on Chinese New Year 2022 celebration and Reunion dinners !


----------



## Triode User

I wonder, did anyone make any last minute orders for new Antipodes gear bearing in mind the price rises which come in today? I must admit I was prompted to have a bit of a shuffle around and a new Antipodes was ordered. I am fearful of admitting what I have done just in case my wife finds out!! As I often say to my daughter, the only true way to save money is not to buy anything rather than say buying in order to avoid a price rise. 🤣 😂


----------



## Whazzzup (Feb 1, 2022)

Egad my Jura superauto espresso machine died, do have a back up Jura a1 from decades ago, then of course my Kef 300 A usb speakers died…have my iMac output that kinda sux, so other investments will preclude desktop or portable audio. Funny how the lucky you are to keep living, s^#t just breaks eventually.


----------



## Clive101

If anyone is interested I am selling my K10 as new.
https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/antipodes-k10.19762/


----------



## Whazzzup

well my espresso machine has been delivered, jura ena4, don't want to deal with milk lines. Well oladra was a smashing success for an upgrade, no? im sure the K series is exciting additions as well, cheers


----------



## Progisus

I see we are on hqplayer 4.28.2 and the Signalyst site shows 4.29.3. I was hoping the AMS 3 software would provide more frequent updates. I also thought we would receive some kind of regular overnite software optimizing. Maybe I have that wrong. I’ve asked Mark on the support site.


----------



## td19

4.29.3 only released today. Generally there is a 1-2 week gap before new releases are available to Antipodes.


----------



## Progisus

td19 said:


> 4.29.3 only released today. Generally there is a 1-2 week gap before new releases are available to Antipodes.


Thanks Tony. There have been a few releases I think since 4,26,2 which is on my K30. Mark replied to me and said they are bringing on some help for software and app verification. Has anyone been updated beyond the 4.26.2?


----------



## Triode User

Progisus said:


> Thanks Tony. There have been a few releases I think since 4,26,2 which is on my K30. Mark replied to me and said they are bringing on some help for software and app verification. Has anyone been updated beyond the 4.26.2?


Is the updating of the Server and Player apps automatic without any need for user input? If so, how does one keep track of what version is on the Antipodes without every now and then looking to see?


----------



## Progisus

Triode User said:


> Is the updating of the Server and Player apps automatic without any need for user input? If so, how does one keep track of what version is on the Antipodes without every now and then looking to see?


It is supposed to be semi automatic. I think we will receive notification on MyAntipodes that a new version is available as when the software was updated. Everyone should be at the most current version once they start rolling these out. Until then we need to check each package. A button that compiles a list of current versions on your server/player would be nice. Before anything I would like access to app_status.


----------



## Progisus

In a bit of banter on HQPlayer vs Mscaler with @kennyb123 , I had posted the following:

“I still think hqplayer is an equal solution to mscaler. Way back when I had my first mscaler and was comparing to hqplayer, I mentioned the issues with software vs hardware. Software had the intermittent handshake issues and hardware really required the rfi mitigation either with cables, optical isolation or battery supplies. I wasn’t able to pursue those at the time so sold the mscaler and picked up the Antipodes server with embedded hqplayer. Since then I realized the simplicity of the hardware solution and was able to get the Wave cables so mscaler entered my system again. PGGB is a fantastic way to push the boundaries on multi million tap filters but unfortunately is not real time for roon. I was just preferring not switching things to PGGB for my local library. My next project is to put my components in a proper stand. This will leave space for my PGGB rig.

MSCALER: Antipodes(roonbridge)-usb in on mscaler-dual bnc out to TT2 
PGGB: Antipodes(roon/hqplayer embedded)-direct ethernet-pi4(audiolinux/naa)-usb out to TT2
This only requires switching the TT2 from bnc to usb in with the remote for A/B comparing as both can run simultaneously on the Antipodes.”

I felt this was more appropriate on this thread and I just wanted to update since the og post. In preparation for my audio stand I substituted my EX for the Pi4. I also used the supplied STP ethernet cables rather than my diy UTP cables. This has breathed new life into the PGGB setup. The sound has calmed with darker background. The cymbals have their sheen rather than crash. Thank goodness I kept the EX when upgrading. BTW, also removed the src-dx from the mscaler bnc input. I am preferring direct usb. ymmv


----------



## Triode User

@Progisus It is always interesting to read of your exploits and experiments.

I have recently been reading that several Extreme owners have been returning to Roon with comments that in their opinion the Roon player is much improved to the extent that they prefer it to HQP in pass through for their PGGB files.

I am still in Mscaler mode whilst I decide about PGGB but last night I fired up Roon on my K50 and indeed it does seem better than I remember. I think I will give it a longer trial.

After RW’s recent post defending the USB implementation on his DACs and the Mscaler I also went back to using USB direct as opposed to the SRC-Dx + BNC input to the Mscaler but I am afraid I still preferred the SRC-DX (plus of course a certain brand of BNC cables) because it all seemed rather less ‘in your face’ than USB direct from the K50 to the Mscaler.


----------



## Progisus

Triode User said:


> @Progisus It is always interesting to read of your exploits and experiments.
> 
> I have recently been reading that several Extreme owners have been returning to Roon with comments that in their opinion the Roon player is much improved to the extent that they prefer it to HQP in pass through for their PGGB files.
> 
> ...


It is great how we can affect the sound with these tweaks and how different flavours appeal to different ears and even our own from day to day. I’ll probably be back to the src-dx soon as my mood changes. No doubt that certain bnc cable would be a big factor. The one tweak that I feel sure (ha,ha) will stay is the EX as a second player.


----------



## Whazzzup

I’ll baseline as old school roon man


----------



## Progisus

Whazzzup said:


> I’ll baseline as old school roon man


Looks like the defectors may be returning.


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> This has breathed new life into the PGGB setup. The sound has calmed with darker background. The cymbals have their sheen rather than crash. Thank goodness I kept the EX when upgrading. BTW, also removed the src-dx from the mscaler bnc input. I am preferring direct usb. ymmv


Interesting findings - thanks for sharing.  Smart move to leverage the EX as a Player when playing PGGB.  

My configuration:

PGGB: Squeeze server > Squeeze player > X26pro with NOS mode ON
Everything else:  Roon server > HQPlayer Server > HQPlayer NAA > X26pro with NOS mode ON

At the moment though it's Roon server > Roon RAAT > X26pro with NOS mode OFF and filter set to Vivid

Things have been really flaky on my K30 the last few days.  I think there's an issue with my network but I have yet to figure out what it is.  I can't even download the latest update to Roon as it's taking forever to download it.  I'm using Roon RAAT as Roon kept losing control of the audio device.

Yesterday I disconnected my REF10 reference clock as it's going to be sent to Mutec to be upgrade.  They have an oscillator set aside for me.  There was a loss of fidelity without the REF10.  I hope I can survive it.  Haha. 

As an aside, I am absolutely thrilled with my headphone setup. I recently received a 1 TB micro sd card and filled it with tracks processed with PGGB.  This has essentially become my massage chair system.  Yeah I definitely spoil myself.


----------



## Progisus

kennyb123 said:


> Interesting findings - thanks for sharing.  Smart move to leverage the EX as a Player when playing PGGB.
> 
> My configuration:
> 
> ...


Is your headphone system the poly/mojo? I haven’t tried it yet with PGGB as my sd card is too small. Sounds like a project. I assume the poly can play 16fs. I know the mojo can. 

I hope your network issue resolves. I have been using a Pi3 with diet-pi to run roon’s extension manager and pi-hole. Pi-hole has kept a lot of crap out of the network and allows for easy dns changes.


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> Is your headphone system the poly/mojo? I haven’t tried it yet with PGGB as my sd card is too small. Sounds like a project. I assume the poly can play 16fs. I know the mojo can.


Yup Poly/Mojo.  I use Glider to play my 16 FS files off the card.  It’s the massage chair system. Excuse the mess on the chair.  My parrot did that.  Haha.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Good news about the Roon player being potentially better. I’m going to try it out tomorrow.


----------



## Progisus

Finally have the rig in a rack. Bottom to top:
AQ Niagra 1200 with Shunyata Venom cord
Antipodes K30
Antipodes EX direct stream from K30, AQ Cinnamon to TT2 for PGGB
Mscaler usb from K30 (Wireworld Platinum 8) dual Storm bnc to TT2
TT2
Focal Utopia w Lazuli Reference, Rooms stand
Big ass recliner

Prog On!


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> Finally have the rig in a rack.


Looks great!  I bet it sounds amazing. Focal Utopia are amazing.

I generally think placing audio components on glass should be avoided. Soundeck makes some affordable footers that might provide a bit of an uplift:

https://www.yoursoundmatters.com/soundeck-review-controlling-unwanted-vibration-sound-damped-steel/

Alternatively bamboo cutting boards do a nice job under components.


----------



## Progisus

kennyb123 said:


> Looks great!  I bet it sounds amazing. Focal Utopia are amazing.
> 
> I generally think placing audio components on glass should be avoided. Soundeck makes some affordable footers that might provide a bit of an uplift:
> 
> ...


I get that when running speakers. I have 8 that I had under the tt2 and mscaler when they were stacked, for heat issues.


----------



## Progisus

kennyb123 said:


> Yup Poly/Mojo.  I use Glider to play my 16 FS files off the card.  It’s the massage chair system. Excuse the mess on the chair.  My parrot did that.  Haha.


Got my 1tb sd card and put 700gb pggb files on it. I had to remove all the embedded covers and straighten out disc and custom characters tags to sort well with Rigelian. I am very impressed with the sound. I used Cantata to make playlists for a few albums and one all inclusive for shuffle play. I found the best sound was using bluetooth and the gofigure app to play the playlists. Second was poly hotspot to get the album playing with Rigelian and then changing my phone back to the local wifi. Third was local wifi. The difference was very slight. I am amazed how good the mojo can sound especially with pggb. I use Empire Ears Legend X iems for my bass head fix. Thanks for  the suggestion.


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> I had to remove all the embedded covers and straighten out disc and custom characters tags to sort well with Rigelian.



How did that solve the problem?  



Progisus said:


> I am amazed how good the mojo can sound especially with pggb.



+1


----------



## Progisus

kennyb123 said:


> How did that solve the problem?
> 
> 
> 
> +1


My experience with Rigelian is that it is very unforgiving with tag formatting. Everything needs to be perfect or albums get split. I found that clearing the embedded artwork from each file and making sure the cover was in two jpg files named cover and folder prevented artwork issues. Foreign accents caused issues as well. It also preferred single albums so track numbers needed to be consecutive. A bit of messing around but well worth it. I like the random album selection or random track option is nice. If your tagging is good it will also supply write ups for the albums.


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> My experience with Rigelian is that it is very unforgiving with tag formatting.


I have a ton of tracks that show as having no tags - but they most certainly do.  Both Glider and Rigelian show this so I think the issue is with MPD.  The issue shows up both on Antipodes and on Poly.  I hadn’t thought of removing cover art in hopes of resolving it, but I will give it a shot.


----------



## Progisus

kennyb123 said:


> I have a ton of tracks that show as having no tags - but they most certainly do.  Both Glider and Rigelian show this so I think the issue is with MPD.  The issue shows up both on Antipodes and on Poly.  I hadn’t thought of removing cover art in hopes of resolving it, but I will give it a shot.


FWIW I use mp3tag.


----------



## bhschap

I just purchased a new power cable upgrade.  Any idea if there will be a bigger upgrade placing it on the CX or the EX?  I appreciate the feedback/input.


----------



## Progisus

Above post reminded me…. When I was prepping my EX and K30 power cords for the rack, I noticed the EX cord was shielded but not the K30. Interesting. I do not have an opinion on upgrade power cords other than they are usually well constructed and look cool. I would put in on the EX (player) in case there was sonic benefit. ymmv


----------



## kennyb123

bhschap said:


> Any idea if there will be a bigger upgrade placing it on the CX or the EX? I appreciate the feedback/input.


It may depend on which power cord you purchase.  You'll have to let your ears decide - but I think I'd start with the CX as it will have more demands for instantaneous current so a better cord can help the power supply better meet those needs, which results in lower noise passed on to the EX.


----------



## Progisus

Hopefully Antipodes will push out hqplayer to at least 4.29.3 or as of monday 28th it will not work with roon. Roon is updating hqplayer api integration.


----------



## Triode User

Has anyone else upgraded to 3.13? 

My K50 has only upgraded the Player to 3.13 and left the Server on 3.12 with no further prompts for upgrade.


----------



## Progisus

Triode User said:


> Has anyone else upgraded to 3.13?
> 
> My K50 has only upgraded the Player to 3.13 and left the Server on 3.12 with no further prompts for upgrade.


As I opened each of my dashboards.. EX player, K30 server, K30 player I was prompted to update. It will require a restore of roon if you use that.


----------



## worknprogress

I updated my K50 Server first.  After shutdown and restart, Server Dashboard reflect 3.13.   I then went to Player Dashboard and selected Update there.   The update seemed to freeze in progress.  After 35 minutes I decided to print the screen to PDF.  Oddly, as soon as I did so, the progress screen came to life and update progressed to completion, and I once again shutdown and restarted on my K50.   In opening Roon, I had to completely sign in.  Qobuz also required this. I had to again provide names for my Audio Zones shown and enable them.   My K50 Player was not initially showing in the available Audio Zones but when it did show,  I enabled it.    There was a rapid populating of music on the Roon Home Screen, but did not appear to show the recent additions of Qobuz music I had added to the Library.  I did a Roon Backup Restore from my most recent backup. When Roon restarted from Backup, it indicated the new update required a process of database update, which required a few minutes of wait.   I once again had to rename and enable Audio Zones, including waiting a bit for K50 Player to show.  The recent Qobuz additions to Roon Library appear to be showing now. I am playing music now and do not yet have an opinion if any changes in sound quality are present after the update.  To date I have not added HQPlayer.  Server and Player Dashboards do reflect 3.13.


----------



## Whazzzup (Feb 28, 2022)

Yup upgraded to 3.13, and had to tweak dashboard and server the same as after oladra. deauthorize, sign back in, reauthorize. everything good under 3.13 roon wise. well back to 0's on my tracks listened to , well like i can restore my back up but f%$ it


----------



## Whazzzup

so is it me or what. I did notice a change 3.13, it seems less in your face just a pinch less intimate but not in a bad way, its cool. then again i might have a brain twerk , but processing speed also slowed up some, like there's more work being done upsampling wise. but i will digress to its just me.


----------



## Progisus

When starting roon after the update don’t sign in. Right at the bottom of that sign in screen is a restore from backup. Use that and everything will be just as you left it.


----------



## Whazzzup

missed that


----------



## worknprogress

I missed that too on signing in and instead restore from backup.

Regarding sound quality possible differences, I think I will try to hold off on posting impressions for a week or so in case the shut down and restarts influence SQ till unit has been constantly on for a bit.


----------



## andrewd01

No updates for CX or EX yet, not that I feel the need for a new version.  It is quite annoying how you need to de authorise Roon and restore a backup for every update. 

Even more concerning, when I try to view my Roon backups I get an error message that no backups are found!  I can clearly see the backup folders. To be extra sure I made a new backup and it can’t find that either.


----------



## worknprogress

I struggled with Roon backups before even purchasing the Antipodes K50.  Admittedly, much of my problems came from me not understanding how and where to locate the backup location.   I was trying to locate Roon backup on separate drive and could not get scheduled routine backups.   I now have the Roon Backup folder on my K50 hard drive in Storage, but not in Root folder.   I also received assistance from Mark Cole via a scheduled remote session--highly recommended if this continues to be an issue for you.


----------



## Progisus

andrewd01 said:


> No updates for CX or EX yet, not that I feel the need for a new version.  It is quite annoying how you need to de authorise Roon and restore a backup for every update.
> 
> Even more concerning, when I try to view my Roon backups I get an error message that no backups are found!  I can clearly see the backup folders. To be extra sure I made a new backup and it can’t find that either.


Easiest way to view backups:

Goto settings>backups>view . Click on the three vertical dots beside the scheduled backup. Then select clean/restore to see them or restore. At least then you are seeing the current backups.


----------



## andrewd01

This Roon thread describes the problem finding backups:
https://community.roonlabs.com/t/ro...-backups-from-multiple-cores-ticket-in/189475

I found that by making a new backup folder and running a fresh backup in this folder I could then see it.  I suspect the problem is related to the refresh of the Roon core in the last software update.  I did de authorise the old core before the update.

I would recommend that people check that they can find their backup files before running any Antipodes OS upgrades.  It would be a nasty shock to not be able to load a backup file after upgrading.  The whole upgrade process from Antipodes needs a lot of work to make it user friendly.


----------



## 12grayclouds (Feb 28, 2022)

andrewd01 said:


> This Roon thread describes the problem finding backups:
> https://community.roonlabs.com/t/ro...-backups-from-multiple-cores-ticket-in/189475
> 
> I found that by making a new backup folder and running a fresh backup in this folder I could then see it.  I suspect the problem is related to the refresh of the Roon core in the last software update.  I did de authorise the old core before the update.
> ...


Not really, you are in control of where you put your backup, not Antipodes, that's on you not them.
Roon backups are done thru Roon not Antipodes.


----------



## kennyb123

andrewd01 said:


> It is quite annoying how you need to de authorise Roon and restore a backup for every update.


You don't need to de-authorize it first.  I find it to be fairly simple to restore a Roon backup if you do it right from the first page that Roon shows when it starts clean.


andrewd01 said:


> I would recommend that people check that they can find their backup files before running any Antipodes OS upgrades. It would be a nasty shock to not be able to load a backup file after upgrading. The whole upgrade process from Antipodes needs a lot of work to make it user friendly.


Most certainly its wise to ensure Roon is doing backups to a known location that will persist even if the server is completely wiped.  But this has nothing to do with Antipodes as @12grayclouds says above.  One needs to take care that what's important to them gets backed up regularly.  In a sense, what Antipodes is doing should encourage people to better get their house in order as far as this goes.  It's been like 4 times that we have had to restore backups after an Antipodes upgrade.  I would hope that everyone has it down by now.  


andrewd01 said:


> I found that by making a new backup folder and running a fresh backup in this folder I could then see it.


That's good advice but if one is having trouble finding their backups then they will be totally screwed if their server gets wiped for some reason.  

I have configured a folder on my NAS for saving backups.  I attached this to Antipodes internal storage so it can be found at /storage/backups.  Roon thus saves them directly to my NAS.  I've been doing this forever with Roon and have never had a problem with finding backups.


----------



## Progisus

+1 for nas backup.


----------



## Triode User

Triode User said:


> Has anyone else upgraded to 3.13?
> 
> My K50 has only upgraded the Player to 3.13 and left the Server on 3.12 with no further prompts for upgrade.


After an overnight wait the server is now also showing the option to upgrade to 3.13 and I have just completed that. Weird but all done now.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Mar 1, 2022)

I got to admit I hate restoring roon files. I have like 13tb of music. I’ve been waiting for like 8 hours to backup, load in my files, then do the backup restore 

I’m gonna try not signing in and restoring that way next time. Maybe it’ll be faster


----------



## kennyb123

Ciggavelli said:


> I got to admit I hate restoring roon files. I have like 13tb of music. I’ve been waiting for like 8 hours to backup, load in my files, then do the backup restore


After the Antipodes update, there is no need to restore the music.  



Ciggavelli said:


> I’m gonna try not signing in and restoring that way next time. Maybe it’ll be faster


Definitely the way to go


----------



## andrewd01

Ciggavelli said:


> I got to admit I hate restoring roon files. I have like 13tb of music. I’ve been waiting for like 8 hours to backup, load in my files, then do the backup restore
> 
> I’m gonna try not signing in and restoring that way next time. Maybe it’ll be faster



Crikey thats a masive library! Perhaps bigger than what Tidal has?  My local library is only 150Gb and that’s enough to seriously piss me off if I have to shuffle files around.  I think its around 300 albums.  I mostly listen to Tidal files now.


----------



## andrewd01

kennyb123 said:


> You don't need to de-authorize it first.  I find it to be fairly simple to restore a Roon backup if you do it right from the first page that Roon shows when it starts clean.
> 
> Most certainly its wise to ensure Roon is doing backups to a known location that will persist even if the server is completely wiped.  But this has nothing to do with Antipodes as @12grayclouds says above.  One needs to take care that what's important to them gets backed up regularly.  In a sense, what Antipodes is doing should encourage people to better get their house in order as far as this goes.  It's been like 4 times that we have had to restore backups after an Antipodes upgrade.  I would hope that everyone has it down by now.
> 
> ...



I have been doing my Roon backups to the storage folder on my CX.  This folder isn’t effected by OS updates.  The problem finding backups is a bug in Roon build 903, many people are reporting it.  I made a new subfolder below storage and everything works.  I will have to go in and remove the old one to tidy things up.


----------



## kennyb123

andrewd01 said:


> Crikey thats a masive library! Perhaps bigger than what Tidal has?  My local library is only 150Gb and that’s enough to seriously piss me off if I have to shuffle files around.  I think its around 300 albums.  I mostly listen to Tidal files now.



Prior to streaming, we were stuck with growing our own libraries.  I think if I hadn’t been collecting for decades, I’d have a small library of favorites and consume everything else from Qobuz.  

My library is at least 14 TB but a huge chunk of that is taken up by large files - some ripped from SACDs, some ripped from vinyl, and others processed by PGGB.  The sound quality does justify this use of disc space, but I wish it wasn’t the case.


----------



## Progisus

The roon update for hqplayer api integration is having a lot of issues. Jussi says there is a bug so we may need another update. If you get the auth message then reboot the core computer for now. That got me going. Do not make filter changes from the config screen or a reboot may be necessary. Do it from the main screen or client.


----------



## cczero17

Progisus said:


> The roon update for hqplayer api integration is having a lot of issues. Jussi says there is a bug so we may need another update. If you get the auth message then reboot the core computer for now. That got me going. Do not make filter changes from the config screen or a reboot may be necessary. Do it from the main screen or client.


I'm assuming we have the same issue....I've tried uploading the license key file, it states success but it still states trial!!!


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> The roon update for hqplayer api integration is having a lot of issues.


All good after restarting HQPlayer server and player.  It seems that Roon's crappy sound has been restored.  <sigh>

From the release notes:  "Major enhancement to our buffering/caching/fetching infrastructure for streaming media playback".


----------



## kennyb123

kennyb123 said:


> All good after restarting HQPlayer server and player.  It seems that Roon's crappy sound has been restored.  <sigh>
> 
> From the release notes:  "Major enhancement to our buffering/caching/fetching infrastructure for streaming media playback".


Sorry this may have been a false alarm. Just after I reported that, my server became unreachable on my network.  I traced it back to a Startech FMC I use far upstream.  Bypassing this restored my network.  I suspect the Jameco linear supply powering the FMC might be going south as I’ve had those fail on me.  I still don’t think Roon sounds as good as it did yesterday, but tomorrow I will see if I can get that FMC working again so I get things back to the previous baseline.


----------



## Whazzzup

Roons fine


----------



## naynay

Any of you using Squeeze to play PGGB files and do you have any issues still?

I am on v3.13 but still have problems playing them.


----------



## kennyb123

naynay said:


> Any of you using Squeeze to play PGGB files and do you have any issues still?



All good for me.  Make sure you have C-3PO enabled.


----------



## naynay

Where do I  locate C-3PO is it in Logitech Settings / Additional Player settings?


----------



## kennyb123

naynay said:


> Where do I  locate C-3PO is it in Logitech Settings / Additional Player settings?


It’s not under player settings.  Hopefully someone else can direct you to how to find it via the blue Material browser.  I reverted to the previous gray toned Material.


----------



## marcmccalmont (Mar 2, 2022)

kennyb123 said:


> All good for me.  Make sure you have C-3PO ?


My mistake!


----------



## naynay

kennyb123 said:


> It’s not under player settings.  Hopefully someone else can direct you to how to find it via the blue Material browser.  I reverted to the previous gray toned Material.


Yes I did know where it was in the old layout but I don't think it is there in the later one.


----------



## naynay (Mar 2, 2022)

So can anyone tell me if they are playing PGGB files 768 on squeeze latest player and do you need to enable C-3PO as I can not locate it?
I thought Antipodes was getting this sorted months ago?


----------



## marcmccalmont

naynay said:


> Yes I did know where it was in the old layout but I don't think it is there in the later one.


I’d like to know also


----------



## kennyb123 (Mar 2, 2022)

naynay said:


> Yes I did know where it was in the old layout but I don't think it is there in the later one.


I reverted to the blue Material browser.  To get to the plugins:


From the menu, select Library.  This will take you to the Server settings page.
From the dropdown, select Plugins
Enable C-3PO, restart Squeeze
Repeat 1 and 2 but check the C-3PO settings.
Ensure "Default Enable C-3PO for new players" is checked
Next go to Player settings
Select Extra player settings
From the dropdown, select C-3PO.  See the image below for how I have configured this.
Next go to the Antipodes support forum and find the Material browser section.  Ask Antipodes to bring back the default Material browser.  😀


----------



## Triode User

kennyb123 said:


> I reverted to the blue Material browser.  To get to the plugins:
> 
> 
> From the menu, select Library.  This will take you to the Server settings page.
> ...


I have all ‘Resample’ and all ‘Additional Effects’ unchecked. 

I wonder if there is any merit in us sharing our other C-3PO settings because there are quite a few which might impact on playback


----------



## marcmccalmont

Can someone explain none, DOP, native dsd? Does none mean dsd converted to pcm?


----------



## kennyb123

marcmccalmont said:


> Can someone explain none, DOP, native dsd? Does none mean dsd converted to pcm?



DoP was a standard devised in the early days that allowed DSD to be passed to a DAC by encoding it into a PCM stream.  It’s inefficient because it’s essentially a hack.  Over time DACs began to be able to handle DSD without packing it into PCM.  My current DAC supports native DSD so I use that option.  My former Chord DAC did not support native DSD so I had to use DoP.  

I’m not sure there is a sound quality difference but DoP can be glitchier especially at higher rates.


----------



## marcmccalmont

kennyb123 said:


> DoP was a standard devised in the early days that allowed DSD to be passed to a DAC by encoding it into a PCM stream.  It’s inefficient because it’s essentially a hack.  Over time DACs began to be able to handle DSD without packing it into PCM.  My current DAC supports native DSD so I use that option.  My former Chord DAC did not support native DSD so I had to use DoP.
> 
> I’m not sure there is a sound quality difference but DoP can be glitchier especially at higher rates.


What does none do to a dsd file?


----------



## kennyb123

marcmccalmont said:


> What does none do to a dsd file?


None means that the DAC can’t play DSD.  Roon will convert it to PCM automatically.  Squeeze can do this too but it’s not automatic.

Roon will pick the highest PCM sample rate that’s an even order of 44.1kz.  Usually 176.4 for most DACs.


----------



## marcmccalmont

kennyb123 said:


> None means that the DAC can’t play DSD.  Roon will convert it to PCM automatically.  Squeeze can do this too but it’s not automatic.
> 
> Roon will pick the highest PCM sample rate that’s an even order of 44.1kz.  Usually 176.4 for most DACs.


Thanks!


----------



## kennyb123

marcmccalmont said:


> Thanks!


Which DAC are you using?


----------



## marcmccalmont

Chord Dave and a new K50
I’m trying to keep one interface and one filter for all files without sacrificing SQ
Currently USB to src dx to Dave, this way I can play redbooks and dsd with one setting ( none and Daves  pcm filter) 
Any recommendations ?


----------



## kennyb123

marcmccalmont said:


> I’m trying to keep one interface and one filter for all files without sacrificing SQ
> Currently USB to src dx to Dave, this way I can play redbooks and dsd with one setting ( none and Daves pcm filter)
> Any recommendations ?


If using Roon, I’d recommend also using HQPlayer so that you can have it scale PCM and DSD to PCM to a million taps or more. 

The best sound will be from using Squeeze - especially if you scale offline with PGGB.  I flip between Roon/HQPlayer and Squeeze/Squeeze.


----------



## marcmccalmont

kennyb123 said:


> If using Roon, I’d recommend also using HQPlayer so that you can have it scale PCM and DSD to PCM to a million taps or more.
> 
> The best sound will be from using Squeeze - especially if you scale offline with PGGB.  I flip between Roon/HQPlayer and Squeeze/Squeeze.


I don’t have a roon subscription and coming off an Aurender I’m not familiar with it. The advice I’ve been given is to use squeeze so that’s what I’m doing. I will try pggb when I have time. So many files to convert is pggb worth it?


----------



## kennyb123

marcmccalmont said:


> So many files to convert is pggb worth it?


I can share some files with you so you can decide.  Send me a PM if interested and let me know what kind of music you like.


----------



## kennyb123

marcmccalmont said:


> I don’t have a roon subscription and coming off an Aurender I’m not familiar with it. The advice I’ve been given is to use squeeze so that’s what I’m doing.


Squeeze sounds great.  Where I love Roon is for music discovery.  I’m listening now to a track from Dave Stryker - a guitarist I had never heard of.  Roon had a free trial so it’s worth the effort to experiment with it - especially if you subscribe to either Tidal or Qobuz.


----------



## marcmccalmont

kennyb123 said:


> Squeeze sounds great.  Where I love Roon is for music discovery.  I’m listening now to a track from Dave Stryker - a guitarist I had never heard of.  Roon had a free trial so it’s worth the effort to experiment with it - especially if you subscribe to either Tidal or Qobuz.


I used to scribble on last GM and found a lot of good music I’ll check out roon


----------



## Triode User

marcmccalmont said:


> So many files to convert is pggb worth it?


Only you can answer that by trying it. I like PGGB very much but currently I am back with the MScaler because I like it’s sound and it means that everything (locally stored files + streamed Qobuz) gets upscaled with no faff.


----------



## Triode User

I posted a short while ago that I thought that maybe the sound of Roon had got good enough to go back to it full time. I listened and compared again last night and indeed it does sound good but only until one changes to using Squeeze / Squeeze in the K50 and then the sound quality takes a big leap forward over Roon. Tighter and deeper bass, mids less congested and more space around notes in the treble. This is with using usb out from the K50 to Src-DX  to MScaler via single bnc.  I have tried bnc direct out from the K50 but it seems rather smeared to my ear, especially in the lower mids and bass.


----------



## Ciggavelli

My k50 or maybe the new Roon update are really pissing me off. Roon shuts down if I try to manage my library for more than 10 minutes at a time. It just resets and loads up again. It makes my k50 almost unusable. I’m going to have to contact Antipodes this week. They better not make me send it to New Zealand. Granted, my library is extremely large, and I’m an outlier, but I got the K50 because I could have that big of a library. I might try SqueezeLite everything, but I love the Roon UI. Hopefully this will get resolved


----------



## kennyb123

Ciggavelli said:


> y k50 or maybe the new Roon update are really pissing me off. Roon shuts down if I try to manage my library for more than 10 minutes at a time. It just resets and loads up again. It makes my k50 almost unusable.


On which device is it shutting down?


----------



## Ciggavelli

kennyb123 said:


> On which device is it shutting down?


It’s not shutting down I don’t think. I tried to monitor everything and both CPUs remained on the entire time. I think it’s just Roon restarting. Is there a better way to check?  I appreciate the help


----------



## kennyb123

Ciggavelli said:


> It’s not shutting down I don’t think. I tried to monitor everything and both CPUs remained on the entire time. I think it’s just Roon restarting. Is there a better way to check? I appreciate the help



I am firstly trying to understand if this is an issue on the client device you are using to browse Roon or whether it is a server issue.  You wrote that "Roon shuts down if I try to manage my library for more than 10 minutes at a time" but that's not clear enough to allow me to understand what's going on.  Can you walk me through this in more detail?  For example....

What do you mean by "manage your library"?   What specifically were you trying to accomplish and how were you doing it? 

Is it Roon sever that appears to shut down?  Or is it Roon running on a tablet or PC that shuts down?

"It just resets and loads up again" - what is "it" in that statement?  What do you mean by "reset"?  And how are you witnessing this?


----------



## td19

Ciggavelli said:


> It’s not shutting down I don’t think. I tried to monitor everything and both CPUs remained on the entire time. I think it’s just Roon restarting. Is there a better way to check?  I appreciate the help


I would suggest you investigate the Roon Server Diagnostic Log to see if there is anything there that might indicate  what the problem is:






The Roon DB might be corrupted. 

It should be possible to solve the problem remotely.


----------



## Ciggavelli

kennyb123 said:


> I am firstly trying to understand if this is an issue on the client device you are using to browse Roon or whether it is a server issue.  You wrote that "Roon shuts down if I try to manage my library for more than 10 minutes at a time" but that's not clear enough to allow me to understand what's going on.  Can you walk me through this in more detail?  For example....
> 
> What do you mean by "manage your library"?   What specifically were you trying to accomplish and how were you doing it?
> 
> ...


I believe it is a server issue, upon further consideration.   The Roon app doesn't close, but it loses the server and then re-initializes and my files come back, which I can then play.  It does this server reset when I try to update Artist names, merge albums, add artwork.  If I do that for more than 10 minutes, I often lose access to the server from the Roon app (both on my phone and pc), and then it goes through with initializing again.  I just cleared the Roon server cache, and maybe that will help.  I'll keep experimenting.  If it doesn't work, I'll reinstall the server app on my K50.


----------



## kennyb123

Ciggavelli said:


> I just cleared the Roon server cache, and maybe that will help. I'll keep experimenting. If it doesn't work, I'll reinstall the server app on my K50.


That does sound like a database corruption.  Hopefully you have a Roon backup from prior to this occurring.  If so, just go with the server reinstall and then restore from backup.  You should be good to go after that.  Thanks for clarifying your experience.


----------



## td19

Ciggavelli said:


> I believe it is a server issue, upon further consideration.   The Roon app doesn't close, but it loses the server and then re-initializes and my files come back, which I can then play.  It does this server reset when I try to update Artist names, merge albums, add artwork.  If I do that for more than 10 minutes, I often lose access to the server from the Roon app (both on my phone and pc), and then it goes through with initializing again.  I just cleared the Roon server cache, and maybe that will help.  I'll keep experimenting.  If it doesn't work, I'll reinstall the server app on my K50.


The Roon Server log will show you if the server app is shutting down and restarting. There may be error messages in the log before the shutdown. You probably won't be able to understand them but Antipodes and Roon support people will be able to get an idea what is happening.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Thanks everybody


----------



## cczero17

When I first picked up the CX and EX a coupe of years back, after buying “relatively decent” cables to and from the units, my budget limited me to a “get you going” ethernet cable linking the CX and EX

In looking for experiences here, would using an sotm dcbl cat 7 between the 2 units have any sonic benefits? I only mentioned the sotm as i have one from the switch to the CX

any other experiences would be welcome

Thanks


----------



## Progisus

cczero17 said:


> When I first picked up the CX and EX a coupe of years back, after buying “relatively decent” cables to and from the units, my budget limited me to a “get you going” ethernet cable linking the CX and EX
> 
> In looking for experiences here, would using an sotm dcbl cat 7 between the 2 units have any sonic benefits? I only mentioned the sotm as i have one from the switch to the CX
> 
> ...


It’s been mentioned by Antipodes that the supplied ethernet cable was chosen for it’s sound qualities, especially as applies to the CX, EX combo.


----------



## cczero17

Progisus said:


> It’s been mentioned by Antipodes that the supplied ethernet cable was chosen for it’s sound qualities, especially as applies to the CX, EX combo.


Unfortunately mine didn't come with said cable


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> It’s been mentioned by Antipodes that the supplied ethernet cable was chosen for it’s sound qualities, especially as applies to the CX, EX combo.


I'm sure it was, but was it selected amongst cables all at the same low price point?  Most likely, yes.  And if so, then that most certainly doesn't mean that there could be much more to gain if one's own price point was much higher.


----------



## cczero17

kennyb123 said:


> I'm sure it was, but was it selected amongst cables all at the same low price point?  Most likely, yes.  And if so, then that most certainly doesn't mean that there could be much more to gain if one's own price point was much higher.


I'm hoping ( and pretty sure) there must be a bunch of people here that thave different connecting cables


----------



## kennyb123

cczero17 said:


> I'm hoping ( and pretty sure) there must be a bunch of people here that thave different connecting cables


I've been refraining from responding as I haven't tried one between EX and CX so I have no clue how much that cable matters.  I would think it does.  The SOtM CAT7 is a very nice choice.  Another to consider is the Sablon as it is most likely a step up from the SOtM.


----------



## cczero17

kennyb123 said:


> I've been refraining from responding as I haven't tried one between EX and CX so I have no clue how much that cable matters.  I would think it does.  The SOtM CAT7 is a very nice choice.  Another to consider is the Sablon as it is most likely a step up from the SOtM.


Oh I don't know Sablon. Not even sure where you can buy them. How much are we talking?


----------



## kennyb123

cczero17 said:


> Oh I don't know Sablon. Not even sure where you can buy them. How much are we talking?



Sablon has a forum on What's Best Forum.  They sell direct.  I'm not familiar with the prices but Mark Coles from there has a great reputation.  (Not to be confused with Mark Cole from Antipodes).

I just found a listing on Audiophile Style for a used one in the UK.  Probably longer than you need.
https://audiophilestyle.com/classifieds/item/1902-sablon-2020-ethernet-25m/


----------



## Progisus

kennyb123 said:


> I'm sure it was, but was it selected amongst cables all at the same low price point?  Most likely, yes.  And if so, then that most certainly doesn't mean that there could be much more to gain if one's own price point was much higher.


Which do you suggest for Antipodes to switch… UTP or STP?


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> Which do you suggest for Antipodes to switch… UTP or STP?


How long is the run?


----------



## Progisus

kennyb123 said:


> How long is the run?


Just from the media converter to the K30, 1 meter. The reason I ask is the supplied cable is STP but most recommendations on audio forums is for UTP. Personally, for home use I make all my cables UTP to prevent shield transmission of possible ground plane noise. I used the supplied STP as the run is fibre to the media converter with only the K30 attached.


----------



## kennyb123

aa


Progisus said:


> Personally, for home use I make all my cables UTP to prevent shield transmission of possible ground plane noise. I used the supplied STP as the run is fibre to the media converter with only the K30 attached.


That sounds wise.  I believe the issue with STP occurs when the connectors are metal and the shield is tied at both ends.  Despite that, a cable that surprised me here was the Cable Matters CAT8.  This cost less than $20 and actually seemed to do less harm than an audiophile Ethernet cable from Wireworld.  At a gathering of audiophile friends here a year or so prior to the pandemic, we compared a few Ethernet cables.  The Cable Maters didn’t fare well at all against this group of audiophile cables.  It really surprised me as at the time I didn’t see how Ethernet cables could matter.  The SOtM CAT7 easily justified its price based on how much more organic music sounded with it in place.  Music became more dimensional as well.  I was planning to purchase one but I had the opportunity to purchase a used Shunyata Sigma at a great price.  This worked out better than expected because the Sigma really began to really shine when I moved to a Shunyata Sigma USB cable.  Shunyata‘s digital cables are extremely quiet and free from noise and grain.  Images and tones gain density as well, which is my favorite part.  I think they match up well with Antipodes as they aim to bring out the same benefits.


----------



## cczero17

kennyb123 said:


> Sablon has a forum on What's Best Forum.  They sell direct.  I'm not familiar with the prices but Mark Coles from there has a great reputation.  (Not to be confused with Mark Cole from Antipodes).
> 
> I just found a listing on Audiophile Style for a used one in the UK.  Probably longer than you need.
> https://audiophilestyle.com/classifieds/item/1902-sablon-2020-ethernet-25m/



I found a used sotm dcbl cat 7 .  As I already have one in the chain, I thought it would be best to keep with the signature. The Sablon sounded interesting though. Thanks for pointing that out


----------



## coldbru

kennyb123 said:


> Prior to streaming, we were stuck with growing our own libraries.  I think if I hadn’t been collecting for decades, I’d have a small library of favorites and consume everything else from Qobuz.
> 
> My library is at least 14 TB but a huge chunk of that is taken up by large files - some ripped from SACDs, some ripped from vinyl, and others processed by PGGB.  The sound quality does justify this use of disc space, but I wish it wasn’t the case.


Now that you mention it, this is one more reason I prefer HQP. As I think we're discussing on another forum.  : D


Progisus said:


> The roon update for hqplayer api integration is having a lot of issues. Jussi says there is a bug so we may need another update. If you get the auth message then reboot the core computer for now. That got me going. Do not make filter changes from the config screen or a reboot may be necessary. Do it from the main screen or client.


I have a similar problem since the last Antipodes upgrade: every time I change any setting in HQP, Roon will not connect. Pressing play just leads to a little pause, and nothing happens. The workaround is to reboot the HQP service from Antipodes Server control panel after making every change. Annoying but not the end of the world.


----------



## Progisus

coldbru said:


> Now that you mention it, this is one more reason I prefer HQP. As I think we're discussing on another forum.  : D
> 
> I have a similar problem since the last Antipodes upgrade: every time I change any setting in HQP, Roon will not connect. Pressing play just leads to a little pause, and nothing happens. The workaround is to reboot the HQP service from Antipodes Server control panel after making every change. Annoying but not the end of the world.


As long as I do not change anything on the config page a reboot is not necessary. Any filter changes that are done from the main page do not require a reboot.


----------



## F208Frank

Progisus said:


> Just from the media converter to the K30, 1 meter. The reason I ask is the supplied cable is STP but most recommendations on audio forums is for UTP. Personally, for home use I make all my cables UTP to prevent shield transmission of possible ground plane noise. I used the supplied STP as the run is fibre to the media converter with only the K30 attached.


Sorry but can you please explain utp and stp meanings and differences? I was just about to pick up the wire world starlight 8 Ethernet cable, would that be a bad choice? Is the starlight utp or stp?


----------



## kennyb123

F208Frank said:


> I was just about to pick up the wire world starlight 8 Ethernet cable, would that be a bad choice? Is the starlight utp or stp?


I have owned the WW Starlight Ethernet.  It was the original version so I don’t know if what you have in mind is the same, but if it is, I would not recommend it.  It can become fatiguing.  I can’t explain why, but it was that way in my system and friends agreed as we did a comparison to few other Ethernet cables.  The SOtM CAT7 was much better to my ears as it was far more organic.


----------



## F208Frank

kennyb123 said:


> I have owned the WW Starlight Ethernet.  It was the original version so I don’t know if what you have in mind is the same, but if it is, I would not recommend it.  It can become fatiguing.  I can’t explain why, but it was that way in my system and friends agreed as we did a comparison to few other Ethernet cables.  The SOtM CAT7 was much better to my ears as it was far more organic.


Holy heck, thanks for the reply. What is this deal about utp and stp?


----------



## kennyb123

F208Frank said:


> What is this deal about utp and stp?


TP= twisted pair 
S= shielded
U= unshielded

When choosing between the generic stuff, some generalizations can be made with some favoring shielding and others favoring unshielded.

I try to leave the design approach to talent designers as I think execution matters so much more.  There are various approaches to shielding and twisting the conductors so a thinking in binary terms misses the mark.  How shielding is applied can make or break the cable.

Shunyata is my favorite brand as they deliver a huge bang for the buck and they do real engineering.  I would normally recommend their cables but I haven’t tried their more affordable offerings.  The Venom or Delta would be two that I’d try to audition if I could.  The story that has been told was that Shunyata would not release Ethernet cables unless their least expensive cable, the Venom, beat Audioquest’s most expensive Ethernet cable.  I don’t know if that’s true but it wouldn’t surprise me.


----------



## Progisus

F208Frank said:


> Sorry but can you please explain utp and stp meanings and differences? I was just about to pick up the wire world starlight 8 Ethernet cable, would that be a bad choice? Is the starlight utp or stp?


As @kennyb123 said… STP - shielded twisted pair, UTP - unshielded twisted pair. I prefer UTP to prevent ground noise transmission between devices through the shields. Shields are only needed in high rfi environments or where laying cables alongside high power cables that can induce noise. I make my own cables from certified cat 6 cable. Some hear differences in boutique cables but for audio ethernet a certified cat 6 grade cable is all that is needed. ex. Blue Jeans cables Ymmv.


----------



## cczero17

Ok, with the cost of living going skywards, and electricity bills seeming be be doubling here in the UK, how much juice do a CX and EX consume when idling.

Ideally I would want to turn these off overnight now and only keep them on when we know there is to be a Software update.


----------



## Whazzzup (Mar 23, 2022)

Anyone lost album artwork? Can’t figure out why? Tried some things from rescan, reboot, load backup, still 80% of my albums cover art dont load… we’ll if anyone has and found a fix…..? I haven’t reinstalled roon yet?


----------



## Progisus

Whazzzup said:


> Anyone lost album artwork? Can’t figure out why? Tried some things from rescan, reboot, load backup, still 80% of my albums cover art dont load… we’ll if anyone has and found a fix…..? I haven’t reinstalled roon yet?


This was an issue for some I saw on the roon forum. An upgrade was supposed to have fixed it. I would try a roon install.


----------



## Whazzzup

Progisus said:


> This was an issue for some I saw on the roon forum. An upgrade was supposed to have fixed it. I would try a roon install.


Marc did that once years ago for me, how do we uninstall reinstall roon for the challenged out there, namely me


----------



## Progisus

Whazzzup said:


> Marc did that once years ago for me, how do we uninstall reinstall roon for the challenged out there, namely me


Go to server dashboard and click on roon gear. At the bottom of the next screen. Try removing the cache first. Remember after installing roon to restore from backup on bottom of first screen. Don’t sign in as it will rescan everything.


----------



## RKClem

Hi Some advice please.  I have the opportunity to buy a used CX/EX combo.  As it is used I wont be able to demo it.  I currently run Roon core on a standard Mac Mini and the Roon endpoint is a networked Sonroe opticalrendu + Sonore LPS -> Chord mScaler ->Chord TT2. Does anyone have any experience with a similar setup who could advise if the CX/EX combo would be a step up in sound quality over the Mac Mini/Sonroe opticalrendu + Sonore LPS combo?

Given the CX/EX is 3 years old should I have any concerns about compatibility with future Roon updates?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Whazzzup (Mar 23, 2022)

as an fyi, fixed. Reinstalled roon,  But I actually signed in, rescanned, and in 10 minutes 30,000 tracks had a album cover. So re install roon the solution.


----------



## kennyb123

RKClem said:


> I currently run Roon core on a standard Mac Mini and the Roon endpoint is a networked Sonroe opticalrendu + Sonore LPS -> Chord mScaler ->Chord TT2. Does anyone have any experience with a similar setup who could advise if the CX/EX combo would be a step up in sound quality over the Mac Mini/Sonroe opticalrendu + Sonore LPS combo?


Your standard Mac mini is a very weak link.  The opticalRendu might be on par with the EX, but the CX should be a significant step up from your Mac mini for running Roon Core.

I had a similar configuration with Mac mini feeding a microRendu with an ISO Regen.  I got a tremendous upgrade though by powering the Mac mini with an Uptone JS2.  Despite that, later moving to an Innuos Zenith Mk2 brought a significant upgrade.  I suspect that the CX/EX combo at at least as good as the Zenith Mk2, but more likely a lot better as it was priced a lot higher and represented the top of Antipodes lineup.  

I would grab the CX/EX providing the price you pay would allow you to flip it if it doesn't turn out to your liking.


----------



## RKClem

kennyb123 said:


> Your standard Mac mini is a very weak link. The opticalRendu might be on par with the EX, but the CX should be a significant step up from your Mac mini for running Roon Core.
> 
> I had a similar configuration with Mac mini feeding a microRendu with an ISO Regen. I got a tremendous upgrade though by powering the Mac mini with an Uptone JS2. Despite that, later moving to an Innuos Zenith Mk2 brought a significant upgrade. I suspect that the CX/EX combo at at least as good as the Zenith Mk2, but more likely a lot better as it was priced a lot higher and represented the top of Antipodes lineup.
> 
> I would grab the CX/EX providing the price you pay would allow you to flip it if it doesn't turn out to your liking.


Great feedback, thanks!


----------



## F208Frank (Mar 24, 2022)

I used to have the CX and EX combo, sold the CX when I decided to get out of the headphone world to venture into 2 channel and IEMS. Realized my most desired platform were still headphones, came back and threw the EX into the chain as I primarily stream Tidal. Looked at the new line of antipodes products and jesus, headache just seeing so many variants.

IEMS are just so hard to scale no matter how hard one tries, speakers are just damn annoying when dealing with room issues. Room correction software can only do so much, sometimes it takes leaving something to appreciate it, except crazy ex girlfriends or crazy ex wives.


----------



## kennyb123

F208Frank said:


> Looked at the new line of antipodes products and jesus, headache just seeing so many variants.


Their lineup is simpler than it appears as there are essentially three variables:  boards, chassis, power supply.

The K30 has two boards and a single power supply within a single chassis.  Those boards are found separately in the S30 and S40 while the power supply is found in S60.  The S series simply allows one to build up to the K30 level incrementally.

The K21 plus K41 likewise allow one to build incrementally towards a K50. It won’t exactly get there though as only the K50 has the reclocker that provides additional synchronous digital outputs.


----------



## F208Frank (Mar 24, 2022)

kennyb123 said:


> Their lineup is simpler than it appears as there are essentially three variables:  boards, chassis, power supply.
> 
> The K30 has two boards and a single power supply within a single chassis.  Those boards are found separately in the S30 and S40 while the power supply is found in S60.  The S series simply allows one to build up to the K30 level incrementally.
> 
> The K21 plus K41 likewise allow one to build incrementally towards a K50. It won’t exactly get there though as only the K50 has the reclocker that provides additional synchronous digital outputs.


Fair enough I have no experience with any of the newer gear. I still only have just the EX and intend to keep for a while. Did anyone upgrade from CX or EX series to newer offerings and felt there were huge differences to be had, excluding the K50 since that would be a bit unfair of a comparison as the price tiers are so wide.


----------



## highstream

What size fuse does the CX take?


----------



## Whazzzup (Mar 26, 2022)

Whatever country you are in, from 110 to 250 v supplied from manufacturer. Concerning upgrades there is an oladra program for Cx ex, err at least there was


----------



## highstream (Mar 26, 2022)

Whazzzup said:


> Whatever country you are in, from 110 to 250 v supplied from manufacturer. Concerning upgrades threes an oladra program for Cx ex, err at least there was


If you were replying to my question, I was asking about amperage, which another user tells me is 6.3A, but I wanted to double check because that’s not a typical audio eqpt value in in my experience. Thanks,


----------



## Whazzzup

highstream said:


> If you were replying to my question, I was asking about amperage, which another user tells me is 6.3A.


Oops, dunno


----------



## Ciggavelli

Well, I contacted Antipodes and did a remote session. He checked some things and did a Room uninstall and reinstall, and everything seems to work now. So far no crashes when editing metadata.  Hopefully everything is back to normal.


----------



## F208Frank

For the K50, if we are connecting USB from K50 to our dac, the reclocker is basically by passed correct?

In summary, if I only plan to connect USB from server/player to DAC, does that mean the K30 and the K50 would be the same thing for me if the reclocker does not work with USB or are there other benefits between the K50 and K30 other than the reclocker?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Clive101

BNC is best IMHO


----------



## Progisus

The K50 has a more powerful multi core server computer. The player computers are the same I believe. Of course the K50 has the reclocker. I have found the K30 server more than enough for my roon, squeeze and mini dlna needs.


----------



## F208Frank (Mar 31, 2022)

Holy cow, I owned the EX for multiple years and I never tried the Squeeze player or the HQ player due to fear of it being complicated and annoying.

I think using Roon Core is a must for me since the interface is just too nice, do you guys prefer the HQ player or the Squeeze player?


----------



## Whazzzup

Nothing wrong in being lazy. course Nothing tried nothing gained


----------



## Progisus

F208Frank said:


> Holy cow, I owned the EX for multiple years and I never tried the Squeeze player or the HQ player due to fear of it being complicated and annoying.
> 
> I think using Roon Core is a must for me since the interface is just too nice, do you guys prefer the HQ player or the Squeeze player?


I’ll leave that for the golden ears. Imho roon’s gui and search ability trumps all.


----------



## Triode User

F208Frank said:


> In summary, if I only plan to connect USB from server/player to DAC, does that mean the K30 and the K50 would be the same thing for me if the reclocker does not work with USB or are there other benefits between the K50 and K30 other than the reclocker?


From the Antipodes website :-

K30 has V5.2H and V5X processing boards and 1 x HSL80 power supply

K50 has V5.7H and V5.1X processing boards and 3 x HSL80 power supplies.

From what I read the player board on the K30 is the same or pretty similar to the player board on the K50 but the server boards are different. Of course the K30 only has one power supply compared to the three in the K50 and I’m guessing that is a significant difference. So if you are only using USB then it may be that the K30 goes quite a way towards the K50 but it will not be the same. The K30 is clearly very good and several on here have it and are very happy indeed but it is probably fair to say that the K50 is the final icing on the cake for USB quality as well as having optical, BNC, RCA, 2iS outputs.



F208Frank said:


> Holy cow, I owned the EX for multiple years and I never tried the Squeeze player or the HQ player due to fear of it being complicated and annoying.
> 
> I think using Roon Core is a must for me since the interface is just too nice, do you guys prefer the HQ player or the Squeeze player?



I retried Roon on my K50 recently and thought it sounded better than I remembered. I was using Roon server and Squeezelite and Roon endpoint/players.

But then I went back to using the Squeeze server and Squeezelite player and realised I had been fooling myself into thinking that there was not much difference in sound between Squeeze and Roon. I have decided that I have paid a lot of money to get the sound quality from the K50 and I am not going to degrade it by using Roon. For sure Roon has a great interface but when I listen I tend to just select a ripped CD and listen to it. The Material interface for Squeeze is perfectly adequate for that.


----------



## F208Frank (Apr 1, 2022)

Triode User said:


> From the Antipodes website :-
> 
> K30 has V5.2H and V5X processing boards and 1 x HSL80 power supply
> 
> ...


Beautifully written. Thanks for taking time to write all that.


----------



## andrewd01

The only annoying thing about Roon is that they are constantly faffing with it.  Almost every second time I open it I get a ’new update available’ message.  I would rather they have one update every 2 years, with each release getting 100,000 hours testing to make sure there are no bugs on any possible hardware configuration.


----------



## kennyb123

F208Frank said:


> For the K50, if we are connecting USB from K50 to our dac, the reclocker is basically by passed correct?


I had trouble justifying the purchase of a K50 because I’d be paying extra for a reclocker and power supply I won’t be using.  I went with the K30 instead and have zero regrets.  I’m sure the K50 sounds better even when just using USB.  But the way things have been evolving, I suspect that a future upgrade offered by Antipodes will push the K30’s sound quality ahead of today’s K50.

The inside of my K30 suggests that Antipodes might be thinking of one day offering a second power supply and more for the K30.  Swapping in a pair of the supplies found in the latest K50 would certainly lift the K30’s performance.


----------



## F208Frank

kennyb123 said:


> I had trouble justifying the purchase of a K50 because I’d be paying extra for a reclocker and power supply I won’t be using.  I went with the K30 instead and have zero regrets.  I’m sure the K50 sounds better even when just using USB.  But the way things have been evolving, I suspect that a future upgrade offered by Antipodes will push the K30’s sound quality ahead of today’s K50.
> 
> The inside of my K30 suggests that Antipodes might be thinking of one day offering a second power supply and more for the K30.  Swapping in a pair of the supplies found in the latest K50 would certainly lift the K30’s performance.


I always wondered why the usb output would not be reclocked. If anything I thought USB is most common connection. The innuos phoenix for example ONLY caters to usb users so bit surprised here with Antipodes decision. I am sure they had their reasonings though, anyone in the know can share why?


----------



## barbz127

kennyb123 said:


> I had trouble justifying the purchase of a K50 because I’d be paying extra for a reclocker and power supply I won’t be using.  I went with the K30 instead and have zero regrets.  I’m sure the K50 sounds better even when just using USB.  But the way things have been evolving, I suspect that a future upgrade offered by Antipodes will push the K30’s sound quality ahead of today’s K50.
> 
> The inside of my K30 suggests that Antipodes might be thinking of one day offering a second power supply and more for the K30.  Swapping in a pair of the supplies found in the latest K50 would certainly lift the K30’s performance.


Looking at that makes me wonder if you could get the k30 somewhere close to k50 for less money.

Looks like it would be possible to disconnect the player board from the internal power supply and feed it externally via a s60 and add in the s20 for good measure.


----------



## kennyb123

F208Frank said:


> I always wondered why the usb output would not be reclocked. If anything I thought USB is most common connection. The innuos phoenix for example ONLY caters to usb users so bit surprised here with Antipodes decision. I am sure they had their reasonings though, anyone in the know can share why?



USB is asynchronous.  The clock in the DAC controls the rate.

S/PDIF is synchronous.  The clock in the source controls the rate.  

What the reclocker actually does is convert USB to a synchronous format.  It needs to be able to send a clock signal to the DAC so there’s a high quality clock on the board that is used for that.  Antipodes figures that their clock is better than the clock in most DACs so they recommended using one of the reclocker outputs instead of USB.

The PhoenixUSB is in different product class.  It’s simply a USB regenerator.  The high quality clock inside it simply ensures that the regeneration is done at a very high precision.

I have wished that Antipodes hadn’t given up the battle to improve USB but their reclocker gives them a competitive advantage.


----------



## kennyb123

barbz127 said:


> Looking at that makes me wonder if you could get the k30 somewhere close to k50 for less money.
> 
> Looks like it would be possible to disconnect the player board from the internal power supply and feed it externally via a s60 and add in the s20 for good measure.


I suspect it will be more cost effective to wait for Antipodes to offer an upgrade.  A good portion of the S60s price covers the chassis.


----------



## F208Frank (Apr 1, 2022)

kennyb123 said:


> USB is asynchronous.  The clock in the DAC controls the rate.
> 
> S/PDIF is synchronous.  The clock in the source controls the rate.
> 
> ...


Forgive me for trying to understand, my curious mind does want to learn.

When you say that the reclocker outputs in the antipodes does it for all outputs except for the USB, does the phoenixusb reclock for the USB or is it doing something completely different for the usb output? Are you stating that USB outputs can not be reclocked?

I hope within my question you can understand where my confusion lies, can you elaborate a little.

It is very interesting to me that for me personally servers made the least audible difference to ME in the chain, as I always felt dacs/amps/headphones made the most difference, but yet I find servers to be the most interesting. I think a part of it is liking the fact that one focuses on the source/foundation and getting that right as much as possible. There is some peace in doing so, and I suspect many antipodes owners in here feel the same (but with also hearing more audible differences than myself) Anyone agree or disagree with my opinion and thoughts?


----------



## Ciggavelli

F208Frank said:


> I always wondered why the usb output would not be reclocked. If anything I thought USB is most common connection. The innuos phoenix for example ONLY caters to usb users so bit surprised here with Antipodes decision. I am sure they had their reasonings though, anyone in the know can share why?


I use usb out of my K50 then have my Innuos Phoenix reclock that signal. Best of both worlds. The usb output straight out of the K50 sounds good, but with the PhoenixUSB it sounds even better. Also I had the Innuos Zenith Mk3 to Innuos PhoenixUSB, and the K50 to PhoenixUSB definitely sounds better. 

The K50 allows for up to 24tb of internal SSD that is very easy to put in and remove. You can’t change or add ssds to the Innuos Statement, which is terrible. Also, my Innuos Zenith Mk3 broke 3 times. It was crazy. I asked how to upgrade the SSD to a larger one and they said I had to ship it back to them in Portugal and pay a ridiculous shipping fee and a ridiculous SSD price 

That was completely unacceptable. So I sold the Mk3, stopped wanting to buy the Statement and got the K50 and haven’t looked back. Antipodes is much better than Innuos in customer service, user experience and sound quality. The Innuos PhoenixUSB is still amazing though and putting it with my K50 just makes everything a little better. I listen to only local files because it sounds better to me, but others say adding the PhoenixNET fixes that problem with streaming. I might pick one up in the future…maybe


----------



## F208Frank

Ciggavelli said:


> I use usb out of my K50 then have my Innuos Phoenix reclock that signal. Best of both worlds. The usb output straight out of the K50 sounds good, but with the PhoenixUSB it sounds even better. Also I had the Innuos Zenith Mk3 to Innuos PhoenixUSB, and the K50 to PhoenixUSB definitely sounds better.
> 
> The K50 allows for up to 24tb of internal SSD that is very easy to put in and remove. You can’t change or add ssds to the Innuos Statement, which is terrible. Also, my Innuos Zenith Mk3 broke 3 times. It was crazy. I asked how to upgrade the SSD to a larger one and they said I had to ship it back to them in Portugal and pay a ridiculous shipping fee and a ridiculous SSD price
> 
> That was completely unacceptable. So I sold the Mk3, stopped wanting to buy the Statement and got the K50 and haven’t looked back. Antipodes is much better than Innuos in customer service, user experience and sound quality. The Innuos PhoenixUSB is still amazing though and putting it with my K50 just makes everything a little better. I listen to only local files because it sounds better to me, but others say adding the PhoenixNET fixes that problem with streaming. I might pick one up in the future…maybe


Damn the mk3 breaking 3 times must have been a nightmare, I never had an innuos myself, but was contemplating due to them being at a previous can jam in NY.

If you were to describe what differences you hear from the phoenix usb in the chain, how would you describe it, and would you whole heartedly recommend it for semi budget value minded folks or is this one of those items that is the icing on the cake for people with unlimited budgets but at same time does make a difference?


----------



## Ciggavelli

F208Frank said:


> Damn the mk3 breaking 3 times must have been a nightmare, I never had an innuos myself, but was contemplating due to them being at a previous can jam in NY.
> 
> If you were to describe what differences you hear from the phoenix usb in the chain, how would you describe it, and would you whole heartedly recommend it for semi budget value minded folks or is this one of those items that is the icing on the cake for people with unlimited budgets but at same time does make a difference?


Icing on the cake for the K50

If you’re on a budget, just get the Innuos PhoenixUSB and run it out of a pc/mac. The difference is mind blowing. Much clearer, better bass and dynamics, faster sounding because all the noise goes away. Sean Jacobs makes the power supply and I’m very impressed with his work on the PhoenixUSB. So impressed that I bought his power supplies for my DAVE and M-Scaler. If you have limited funds to put to a server, the PhoenixUSB would be the first thing to buy. Going from straight PC to PC and PhoenixUSB is a larger jump than PC/Phoenix USB to K50. USB reclockers are so amazing. Even the cheap Uptone one (my first reclocker ever) is amazing. I was skeptical at first but the Uptone made me see the light. The PhoenixUSB is even better than that


----------



## F208Frank (Apr 1, 2022)

Ciggavelli said:


> Icing on the cake for the K50
> 
> If you’re on a budget, just get the Innuos PhoenixUSB and run it out of a pc/mac. The difference is mind blowing. Much clearer, better bass and dynamics, faster sounding because all the noise goes away. Sean Jacobs makes the power supply and I’m very impressed with his work on the PhoenixUSB. So impressed that I bought his power supplies for my DAVE and M-Scaler. If you have limited funds to put to a server, the PhoenixUSB would be the first thing to buy. Going from straight PC to PC and PhoenixUSB is a larger jump than PC/Phoenix USB to K50. USB reclockers are so amazing. Even the cheap Uptone one (my first reclocker ever) is amazing. I was skeptical at first but the Uptone made me see the light. The PhoenixUSB is even better than that


Very interesting, I can see some people wanting to just control Tidal straight from their computer and not have a server, using a PhoenixUSB would be great for that situation.

Thank you for sharing the levels of improvement from pc to pc+pusb compared to k50.

Ironically I am going to assume that MOST purchasers of the Phoenix probably have a server and want to get the icing on the cake as those are the people who care about things like this.

Adding on to what you said, since the phoenix reclocker is about retail 3500, it seems more practical to just go get a mid tier or lower end server from the antipodes line, but I am not sure as I do not have 1st hand experience. My guess if forced to make a decision to get an entry level of antipodes server or the phoenix usb, I would probably opt for the entry level antipodes server if they are about the same price. Is this bad logic you'd say?


----------



## Ciggavelli (Apr 1, 2022)

F208Frank said:


> Very interesting, I can see some people wanting to just control Tidal straight from their computer and not have a server, using a PhoenixUSB would be great for that situation.
> 
> Thank you for sharing the levels of improvement from pc to pc+pusb compared to k50.
> 
> ...


Entry level Antipodes + Innuos PhoenixUSB sounds like a good place to start!  You might want to try the PhoenixUSB first to see the improvements and then get the server for a better user experience and less noise. That’s what I’d do at least

Edit: read your post wrong…lol. I’d go with the PhoenixUSB personally, but that’s me 🤷‍♂️


----------



## F208Frank (Apr 1, 2022)

Ciggavelli said:


> Entry level Antipodes + Innuos PhoenixUSB sounds like a good place to start!  You might want to try the PhoenixUSB first to see the improvements and then get the server for a better user experience and less noise. That’s what I’d do at least


Cool, thanks for sharing your thoughts. The main thing I took away from it was that the PhoenixUSB can be bought and used all the way through the server journey, from entry to mid to high tier servers as it still made a difference in your chain. Your tone is that the P-USB is quite amazing, good to know, because that thing is not cheap, haha.

Personally my main gripe is to have as least amount of boxes possible within reason. I am already at 4 at the moment.

I used to have the cx ex dave scaler aic-10, which was 5, and I felt a little overwhelmed and annoyed with so many boxes and realized the multiple boxes did affect my enjoyment of the gear because I have a natural tendency to panic. My dave also became faulty and it gave me that moment of damn... having multiple boxes means multiple chances of one item going faulty and the potential thought of sending items back and forth while waiting gave me anxiety.

I currently just have the stand alone EX as I sold the CX when I was exiting the hobby. I got back into the hobby and the only item I had was the EX from my previous chain.

At the least this time around, I know for a fact I am never leaving the hobby again as I realized my appreciation for headphone gear was the most out of speakers/IEMS/headphones for the main reason of feeling like headphones was the best balance of sound quality to effort placed towards the system. To get amazing sounding 2 channel is a bit tough and expensive. IEMs though have come a long way, they just do not compare to headphones and I was constantly frustrated trying to scale them, expensive daps, cables, you name it!

Sorry for rambling, one of those days for me, and thanks for sharing, moments like these for me make the head-fi forum experience so great and satisfying.


----------



## Ciggavelli

F208Frank said:


> Cool, thanks for sharing your thoughts. The main thing I took away from it was that the PhoenixUSB can be bought and used all the way through the server journey, from entry to mid to high tier servers as it still made a difference in your chain. Your tone is that the P-USB is quite amazing, good to know, because that thing is not cheap, haha.
> 
> Personally my main gripe is to have as least amount of boxes possible within reason. I am already at 4 at the moment.
> 
> ...


Tell me me about it. I have way too many boxes personally…way too many.

That’s why the DCS Bartok or Mola Mola Tambaqui are so appealing to many. The streamer is built right into the dac, which has a headphone amp too. No need for anything else. One box for everything.


----------



## F208Frank (Apr 1, 2022)

Ciggavelli said:


> Tell me me about it. I have way too many boxes personally…way too many.
> 
> That’s why the DCS Bartok or Mola Mola Tambaqui are so appealing to many. The streamer is built right into the dac, which has a headphone amp too. No need for anything else. One box for everything.


Yeah the Mola Mola definitely was one of the first things I looked at when getting back into the hobby. I think 3 to 4 boxes for me is my personal sweet spot.

I must admit though when having multiple boxes, the urge to push the envelope further and further is constantly tempting. I have to really actively force myself to have less boxes and "settle for less".


----------



## Ciggavelli

F208Frank said:


> Yeah the Mola Mola definitely was one of the first things I looked at when getting back into the hobby. I think 3 to 4 boxes for me is my personal sweet spot.
> 
> I must admit though when having multiple boxes, the urge to push the envelope further and further is constantly tempting. I have to really actively force myself to have less boxes and "settle for less".


I feel like separates are always going to have the “best.”  

I do want one “dac” box only though. I have the DAVE, M-Scaler and 2 very large power supplies. 4 boxes is crazy. It all sits on tables. 

The Rossini Apex has been catching my eye, but it costs a lot. Then I’d want to add the clock. So 2 boxes. 

Arguably one of the best dacs in the world is the top of the line MSB one, and it has like 3 or 4 boxes.  There seems to be no escape…lol


----------



## kennyb123

F208Frank said:


> Forgive me for trying to understand, my curious mind does want to learn.
> 
> When you say that the reclocker outputs in the antipodes does it for all outputs except for the USB, does the phoenixusb reclock for the USB or is it doing something completely different for the usb output? Are you stating that USB outputs can not be reclocked?
> 
> I hope within my question you can understand where my confusion lies, can you elaborate a little.



Please don’t apologize for asking questions.  This stuff is complicated.

I think what’s confusing you is the word “reclocker”.  Set that aside for a moment as that’s simply the name Antipodes chose to give it.  A better way to think of it is as a DDC:  a digital to digital converter.

If you have a look at the website for Denafrips, they list several DDCs.  Each takes an input signal and converts it to different output signals.  

The reason DDCs are often needed is because computers speak to peripherals over USB.  Music servers all do USB by default.  To arrive at other flavors, a DDC will be required.  This could either be a standalone model like what Denafrips sells or one that’s built into the server like the K50’s Reclocker.

USB doesn’t usually pass through DDCs because the goal is usually to begin with USB and then pass it through a DDC to convert it to something else.  That’s exactly what’s going on with the K50.  

Here’s a recent post from Nuno from Innuos explaining why the PhoenixUSB is different than a DDC.  The PhoenixUSB can improve the USB output of any Antipodes server.  But it’s apples to orange when comparing it to the reclocker in the K50.

I hope that makes sense.  I think this would be so much easier if Antipodes has called it a digital converter instead of a reclocker.


----------



## F208Frank (Apr 2, 2022)

kennyb123 said:


> Please don’t apologize for asking questions.  This stuff is complicated.
> 
> I think what’s confusing you is the word “reclocker”.  Set that aside for a moment as that’s simply the name Antipodes chose to give it.  A better way to think of it is as a DDC:  a digital to digital converter.
> 
> ...


Are you saying it is apples and oranges when comparing it to the reclocker of the k50 because the k50 does not "reclock" the usb at all?

"USB doesn’t usually pass through DDCs because the goal is usually to begin with USB and then pass it through a DDC to convert it to something else.  That’s exactly what’s going on with the K50."

If that is the case, for the case of Innuos statement, how come they have a usb "reclock" system built in,  I remember Innuous mentioning to me that if you have the statement, you no longer need the Phoenix USB.

Thanks for taking the time to explain, it is quite complicated indeed...


----------



## kennyb123

F208Frank said:


> It is very interesting to me that for me personally servers made the least audible difference to ME in the chain, as I always felt dacs/amps/headphones made the most difference, but yet I find servers to be the most interesting. I think a part of it is liking the fact that one focuses on the source/foundation and getting that right as much as possible. There is some peace in doing so, and I suspect many antipodes owners in here feel the same (but with also hearing more audible differences than myself) Anyone agree or disagree with my opinion and thoughts?


I have become a believer in “source first”.  I do feel that the server is far more important than the DAC.  If the data isn’t processed right from the start, something is lost that cannot be restored later.

Really good servers provide a low noise platform to ensure the data is processed accurately and also to ensure that noise isn’t passed on to the DAC.  A reclocker like the PhoenixUSB can help a lot with the second part of that, but not with the first.  That’s why even Innuos says that the PhoenixUSB won’t make their least expensive server sound as good as their Statement server.


----------



## kennyb123

F208Frank said:


> Are you saying it is apples and oranges when comparing it to the reclocker of the k50 because the k50 does not "reclock" the usb at all?


Reclocking has become a marketing buzz word unfortunately.  I’ve been trying to set that term aside to focus on what the device is actually doing.  Let me try again.

What’s in the K50 that’s not in the K30 is a digital to digital converter that takes USB and converts it other outputs.

The PhoenixUSB is a USB regenerator.  It takes the USB signal from a server and then regenerates into a signal that’s cleaner than the USB signal that’s coming out of a server.

Both devices have clocks.  Every device that handles digital transmission has a clock.  A $10 network switch you buy from Amazon has a clock.  It’s low quality and noisy clock but it does what it needs to do.  Audio gear can greatly benefit from using better clocks in place of cheaper clocks.  I hate the term “reclocker” because that’s only a means to an end.  When converting USB to synchronous outputs, the better the clock the more precise the conversion from digital to analog.  And when regenerating USB, the better the clock the cleaner and more accurate the regenerated USB signal becomes.


----------



## F208Frank (Apr 2, 2022)

kennyb123 said:


> Reclocking has become a marketing buzz word unfortunately.  I’ve been trying to set that term aside to focus on what the device is actually doing.  Let me try again.
> 
> What’s in the K50 that’s not in the K30 is a digital to digital converter that takes USB and converts it other outputs.
> 
> ...




"The PhoenixUSB is a USB regenerator.  It takes the USB signal from a server and then regenerates into a signal that’s cleaner than the USB signal that’s coming out of a server"

^So is the Statement essentially doing this part all within the server as well?

If so, then yes 2nd attempt was not wasted, I completely understand now. Thank you for the clarification.

I think as you mentioned Antipodes really confused the hell out of me, by calling the digital to digital process as "reclocking" which is a bit surprising because they do not seem to be a company that is marketing in this kind of way from my impressions.

Also after you spent so much time explaining everything, I feel that the K30 would be the best fit for me considering budget, non use of ddc, etc. That will likely be in my future buy list.


----------



## kennyb123 (Apr 2, 2022)

F208Frank said:


> So is the Statement essentially doing this part all within the server as well?


Yes.  The PhoenixUSB’s circuitry is inside the statement.



F208Frank said:


> I think as you mentioned Antipodes really confused the hell out of me, by calling the digital to digital process as "reclocking" which is a bit surprising because they do not seem to be a company that is marketing in this kind of way from my impressions.



There’s an important reason why they emphasize the clock, so I shouldn’t have been as dismissive.  I can explain the reason, but I wanted to get past the other stuff to avoid causing your head to explode.

It basically comes down to the “word clock”.  This is the clock that governs digital conversion.  It generates two fundamental frequencies:  44.1k and 48K.  It switches between them based on the music itself.  The higher sample rates are multiples of one if these fundamental frequencies.

All DACs has an internal word clock.  When using USB, the DAC’s word clock is used.

When using the synchronous inputs (spdif, aes, i2s) the DAC’s word clock is not involved.  Instead the source’s word clock is used.  The K50, unlike the K30, has a built-in word clock.

My DAC has an excellent word clock.  Is it better if than the K50’s?  I don’t know.  Many other DACs probably don’t have as good of a word clock as the K50.  So what you get with the K50 is the additional benefit of being able to bypass your DACs own word clock.  Whether that matters depends on a lot of things.  Since I am also using a reference clock with my DAC, I doubt that the K50’s clock stands a chance.  Using a synchronous output from the K50 would likely sound worse than using USB from the K50.  Ultimately the right choice can very well come down to which has the better clock, the K50 or the DAC.  Thus it makes sense Antipodes would want to bring attention to their excellent word clock in the K50.

I hope your head didn’t explode.  Mine almost did.


----------



## andrewd01

I found this article useful for understanding the role of clocks in various outputs and the reasons for the reclocker in the K50:
https://antipodes.audio/solution-architecture/

I think its a pity that Antipodes didn’t think about adding a dual BNC output from the K50 reclocker, supporting high resolution PCM into Chord DACs.  On the DAC side it would be nice if the Chord DACS had an I2S input supporting high resolution PCM (768kHz). Perhaps they will do this on the next generation of DAC’s.


----------



## kennyb123

andrewd01 said:


> I think its a pity that Antipodes didn’t think about adding a dual BNC output from the K50 reclocker, supporting high resolution PCM into Chord DACs. On the DAC side it would be nice if the Chord DACS had an I2S input supporting high resolution PCM (768kHz). Perhaps they will do this on the next generation of DAC’s.


Chord is pretty much the only manufacturer using dual BNC to achieve 768K.  Also, I can't imagine ever seeing I2S on Chord DACs.  I think Rob believes that he was able to get each of his inputs to sound the same to him, so he wouldn't be inclined to add another interface.  

I've heard what DAVE can do with USB into SRC-DX and it was mind-blowing.  It just sucks that the SRC-DX improves upon the USB interface Rob chose to put in all his DACs.  He made it clear that he has no intention of moving away from the Amenaro interface.  I wish he'd trust the ears of his customers. Other manufacturers consider their customer's feedback and apply those learnings to their next model.  Rob on the other hand seems to take his customer's feedback personally - he can get all defensive or even spiteful about it if customers question his choices.  All the talk about the SRC-DX seems to be just strengthening his resolve to stick with Amenaro, which is a shame.


----------



## Progisus

kennyb123 said:


> Chord is pretty much the only manufacturer using dual BNC to achieve 768K.  Also, I can't imagine ever seeing I2S on Chord DACs.  I think Rob believes that he was able to get each of his inputs to sound the same to him, so he wouldn't be inclined to add another interface.
> 
> I've heard what DAVE can do with USB into SRC-DX and it was mind-blowing.  It just sucks that the SRC-DX improves upon the USB interface Rob chose to put in all his DACs.  He made it clear that he has no intention of moving away from the Amenaro interface.  I wish he'd trust the ears of his customers. Other manufacturers consider their customer's feedback and apply those learnings to their next model.  Rob on the other hand seems to take his customer's feedback personally - he can get all defensive or even spiteful about it if customers question his choices.  All the talk about the SRC-DX seems to be just strengthening his resolve to stick with Amenaro, which is a shame.


@kennyb123 Very nice explanation of the clock function and Antipodes ddc. I have found the src-dx noticeably improves the sound. I still have a Schiit Wyrd somewhere which also cleaned and reclocked the usb although at a fraction of the price. I used to use it to clean pi3 usb. The quality of the Antipodes usb output makes it redundant thankfully.


----------



## andrewd01

I tried the SRC-DX but hated the mess of cables it required.  It didn’t seem to make much of a difference to the sound with my system at the time (EX with Roon and HQP >TT2).

It is interesting to read that the old Antipodes P2 reclocker supports I2S output at 768kHz, but the K50 I2S is limited to 384kHz.  I wander why that change was made?


----------



## F208Frank

kennyb123 said:


> Yes.  The PhoenixUSB’s circuitry is inside the statement.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No that was great. How did you yourself learn all this? From my perspective I am fortunate enough to be spoon fed this by a caring head fi member, was learning all this quite easy for you? The depth of the information youre sharing seems very technical.


----------



## Whazzzup

F208Frank said:


> No that was great. How did you yourself learn all this? From my perspective I am fortunate enough to be spoon fed this by a caring head fi member, was learning all this quite easy for you? The depth of the information youre sharing seems very technical.


some brains are bigger than others....


----------



## kennyb123

F208Frank said:


> No that was great. How did you yourself learn all this? From my perspective I am fortunate enough to be spoon fed this by a caring head fi member, was learning all this quite easy for you? The depth of the information youre sharing seems very technical.


I actually made it all up.


----------



## kennyb123

F208Frank said:


> No that was great. How did you yourself learn all this? From my perspective I am fortunate enough to be spoon fed this by a caring head fi member, was learning all this quite easy for you? The depth of the information youre sharing seems very technical.


I have been at this hobby a long time.  In the early days of computer audio, USB was a bad option.  Then the guy from Wavelength Audio discovered that USB could be run asynchronously.  I read a few things at the time that explained the difference.  With that foundation in place, other concepts were easier to consume.  But it’s been a constant learning process.


----------



## F208Frank

kennyb123 said:


> I actually made it all up.


LOL that would be damn hilarious.


----------



## kennyb123

Ciggavelli said:


> You can’t change or add ssds to the Innuos Statement, which is terrible. Also, my Innuos Zenith Mk3 broke 3 times. It was crazy. I asked how to upgrade the SSD to a larger one and they said I had to ship it back to them in Portugal and pay a ridiculous shipping fee and a ridiculous SSD price


It broke 3 times?  I owned a Zenith Mk2 and then a Mk3.  I didn’t have issues with either.  Despite that, I have no interest in purchasing another server from them.  Long story but I will just say that the communication from Antipodes is a few orders of magnitude better.  I also think Antipodes two-tier model of separate server and player is the superior approach - especially when Roon is involved.

And yeah crazy that they don‘t provide the ability for customers to add storage.


----------



## F208Frank (Apr 3, 2022)

I been thinking... for the K50 owners, what made you decide to still continue to use USB as the benefits of potentially dropping one extra box from chain such as the Phoenix USB and just make use of the reclocked alternative outputs?

I mean there are people who buy DDCs for the sole reason to NOT use usb so just trying to get perspective as to why k50 owners would continue using usb.

Even if the k50 owner's dac has great usb implementation, the idea of dropping an extra box (phoenix usb) seems very appealing to me. Just trying to get a another perspective and logic behind their thought process.

Anyways after going back and forth with kenny, I decided to trade in the EX for the K30. 

Beyond excited!


----------



## RKClem

I have an EX/CX coming in a few weeks (exciting!).  Unfortunately my rack is fairly full.  Something will need to get stacked on top of something else.  Any thoughts on stacking the EX and the CX?  Or stacking another box like a phono amp on top of the EX or CX. Is this blasphemy?


----------



## Triode User

F208Frank said:


> I been thinking... for the K50 owners, what made you decide to still continue to use USB as the benefits of potentially dropping one extra box from chain such as the Phoenix USB and just make use of the reclocked alternative outputs?
> 
> I mean there are people who buy DDCs for the sole reason to NOT use usb so just trying to get perspective as to why k50 owners would continue using usb.
> 
> ...


Congratulations on your decision to get the K30.

My decisions about what to use are driven solely by what my ears hear and frequently trying to take out a component to see if I can do without it.

Based on that I run K50 usb out to PhoenixUSB connected to SRC.DX to give me bnc out to my Mscaler/dc4 Dave. 

I often think that must be crazy and so try K50 direct to the MScaler by bnc, optical or usb direct but it only takes a few minutes to want to go back to my multibox solution. I admit though that others prefer the bnc output from the K50.

When you get the K30 I do recommend that you try it with a PhoenixUSB to see if you like the combination.


----------



## F208Frank (Apr 4, 2022)

Triode User said:


> Congratulations on your decision to get the K30.
> 
> My decisions about what to use are driven solely by what my ears hear and frequently trying to take out a component to see if I can do without it.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you really enjoy the phoenix usb. We all want to have as little boxes as possible, personal trade offs and decisions always have to be made.


----------



## Presence

RKClem said:


> I have an EX/CX coming in a few weeks (exciting!).  Unfortunately my rack is fairly full.  Something will need to get stacked on top of something else.  Any thoughts on stacking the EX and the CX?  Or stacking another box like a phono amp on top of the EX or CX. Is this blasphemy?


If your CX/EX has the new power supply they will run cool so, temperature-wise it could work. 
With the original PS, I'd say no.
You'd have to make the call whether there are any compromises by stacking - vibration, power cord management, etc.


----------



## RKClem

Presence said:


> If your CX/EX has the new power supply they will run cool so, temperature-wise it could work.
> With the original PS, I'd say no.
> You'd have to make the call whether there are any compromises by stacking - vibration, power cord management, etc.


 Thanks.  Original PS from me at this stage.  I see from your signature (and others) that you are using fiber between your router/switch and your CX.  As I already have a Sonore opticalModule, would it make sense to keep that and add a TP-Link MC100CM Fiber Rptr (or similar) -> ethernet cable ->CX? Or is this only relevant if the distance between router/switch and CX is long?  Cheers


----------



## Presence

RKClem said:


> Thanks.  Original PS from me at this stage.  I see from your signature (and others) that you are using fiber between your router/switch and your CX.  As I already have a Sonore opticalModule, would it make sense to keep that and add a TP-Link MC100CM Fiber Rptr (or similar) -> ethernet cable ->CX? Or is this only relevant if the distance between router/switch and CX is long?  Cheers


----------



## Presence (Apr 7, 2022)

I'm not sure I have a definitive answer for your setup, but perhaps a few things for you to consider....
I had 50' of in-wall Cat 6 UTP LAN cable from router to audio room and decided to try the back2back fiber repeater next to the CX to get electrical/leakage isolation from the router -
TP-Link MC100CM [$20X2 - Amazon] connected with 1m of fiber and separate LPSs with the repeater connection to the CX powered on the same CX AC circuit.
Not a transformation, but a slight improvement.
Then I replaced the Cat 6 entirely [its what we do, right?  ] and moved one repeater adjacent to the router and powered it off the router AC circuit to eliminate potential AC ground loop/leakage on that end, ran 50' of fiber optic cable between them [$28] and got another slightly better result.
I've since run another 50' of unterminated Supra Cat 8 STP cable
which I still haven't terminated yet, as another alternative to eventually size up against the complete isolation of the fiber.
It's inexpensive enough so depending on the level of difficulty for running the cable to your router....
Enjoy your new CX/EX!


----------



## RKClem

Presence said:


> I'm not sure I have a definitive answer for your setup, but perhaps a few things for you to consider....
> I had 50' of in-wall Cat 6 UTP LAN cable from router to audio room and decided to try the back2back fiber repeater next to the CX to get electrical/leakage isolation from the router -
> TP-Link MC100CM [$20X2 - Amazon] connected with 1m of fiber and separate LPSs with the repeater connection to the CX powered on the same CX AC circuit.
> Not a transformation, but a slight improvement.
> ...


Excellent, thanks.  So what I'm hearing is that the CX will benefit from electrical isolation that a back2back fiber repeater will provide.  I have a Silent Angel Bonn N8 network switch in my current chain.  Is it worth keeping that in also or does the the high quality of the CX ethernet implementation negate the need for that switch?


----------



## Presence (Apr 7, 2022)

RKClem said:


> Excellent, thanks.  So what I'm hearing is that the CX will benefit from electrical isolation that a back2back fiber repeater will provide.  I have a Silent Angel Bonn N8 network switch in my current chain.  Is it worth keeping that in also or does the the high quality of the CX ethernet implementation negate the need for that switch?


I found that with so many variables, the best thing is to try it out and follow what your ears tell you. I found the link between the CX and EX is even more important than from network to CX. I have a fiber repeater between CX and EX also...
You can try your switch just between CX and EX as well.
I would say, get your library up and running first as a benchmark to measure your streaming to. I really like streaming now and don't feel the need to purchase downloads as streaming is, in most cases, equal to my library in terms of sound quality. Plus I can get hi-res that most often sound noticeably better than ripped 16/44.1

The Synergistic Orange fuses are a nice upgrade as well. I haven't tried the Purple yet. VH Audio has the Purple on sale 3-for-2 in April.

BTW, if other SR users are listening, I couldn't reuse the original 1A Orange fuses with the upgraded CX/EX power supplies as the new value is 2.5A to accommodate turn on current.
I tie-wrapped them [passively] to the RED [positive] output lead of the power supplies internally with blue dot facing the wire and they work more powerfully than on the primary side of the transformer [in the fuse holder with current passing through the fuse].
I went through all of my equipment and redeployed them from fuse holder to the DC supply side and am enjoying a transformation in holography, layering, organic-ness and major detail of each instrument. This includes my Phoenix USB, Mutec 10M Clock, S60 to the EtherRegens, Hypsos to the DDI and the DAC where I have three of them.


----------



## andrewd01

RKClem said:


> I have an EX/CX coming in a few weeks (exciting!).  Unfortunately my rack is fairly full.  Something will need to get stacked on top of something else.  Any thoughts on stacking the EX and the CX?  Or stacking another box like a phono amp on top of the EX or CX. Is this blasphemy?


I have the CX/EX and am also tight for space.  Mine have the original power supplies and I never notice them getting particularly warm.  I think you could stack EX on CX without any problems, but I would probably choose to stack the phono preamp instead.   I have my TT2 DAC on my EX and have no problems with either component getting excessively warm.  The Chord DAC is designed to be stacked with other TT sized components.  I have also seen Antipodes marketing shots with CX and EX stacked.


----------



## kennyb123

andrewd01 said:


> but I would probably choose to stack the phono preamp instead


Phono preamps deal with incoming voltages that are extremely low.  They tend to perform better when kept away from sources of noise.


----------



## Triode User

andrewd01 said:


> The Chord DAC is designed to be stacked with other TT sized components.


But many owners conclude it is not optimal sound when stacked.


----------



## Triode User

Presence said:


> I went through all of my equipment and redeployed them from fuse holder to the DC supply side and am enjoying a transformation in holography, layering, organic-ness and major detail of each instrument. This includes my Phoenix USB, Mutec 10M Clock, S60 to the EtherRegens, Hypsos to the DDI and the DAC where I have three of them.


Am I right in thinking that you are introducing a fuse in the dc circuit where no fuse is used prior to your modification and are observing better sound (or at least a sound that you prefer) by introducing the fuse? If which case the logic might be that putting two fuses in each dc circuit would be even better? Do I understand correctly?


----------



## Presence (Apr 8, 2022)

Triode User said:


> Am I right in thinking that you are introducing a fuse in the dc circuit where no fuse is used prior to your modification and are observing better sound (or at least a sound that you prefer) by introducing the fuse? If which case the logic might be that putting two fuses in each dc circuit would be even better? Do I understand correctly?


Triode User: I appreciate the active listening.

There are no electrical connections hence no current is conducted through the fuse itself. This is purely a passive implementation via the effect of the blue dot and its effect on the wire.
On the DC side, the fuse is tie-wrapped in proper direction to the current carrying output conductor where the blue dot [facing the wire] is affecting the circuit current [with whatever it is that it does]....

Pertaining to multiple fuse deployment in the same component-
In my DAC, there are separate power supplies - L, R and digital. Hence, I used three separate fuses due to the number of wires as well as the distances between them.
For the L/R channel supplies and their independent multiple regulated outputs - one for each balanced output stage and a digital voltage for the ladders, I re-bundled all three wire feeds to those circuits together and tie-wrapped them against one large fuse/blue dot. For the digital supply, there are three separate main digital regulators where I did the same...
The large fuses have bigger dots [more material] than the small fuses making them [I think] a better choice in terms of more wires allowed to be covered by the dot.

The ~ 1" UEF Dots are, according to SR Marketing Director, made of the same material as the blue dot on the fuses and do positively influence the sound when affecting the electronics but in a much less inclusive way in my attempts to lessen the cost from $105/fuse to $40/Dot


----------



## Triode User

Presence said:


> Triode User: I appreciate the active listening.
> 
> There are no electrical connections hence no current is conducted through the fuse itself. This is purely a passive implementation via the effect of the blue dot and its effect on the wire.
> On the DC side, the fuse is tie-wrapped in proper direction to the current carrying output conductor where the blue dot [facing the wire] is affecting the circuit current [with whatever it is that it does]....
> ...


Thanks for clarifying. I at least now understand what you are doing.


----------



## kennyb123

Presence said:


> The ~ 1" UEF Dots are, according to SR Marketing Director, made of the same material as the blue dot on the fuses and do positively influence the sound when affecting the electronics but in a much less inclusive way in my attempts to lessen the cost from $105/fuse to $40/Dot


I make use of two some of their UEF as well, but in different form factors.  What you see to the left is my USB cable as it leaves my K30.  That's one of SR's new Carbon Tuning Discs.  To the right on the ethernet cable as it enters my K30 is of of their ECTs.  The ECTs aren't as effective as the Carbon Tuning Discs.  

The Carbon Tuning Discs helped the most on my analog cables.  I haven't spent much time optimizing the use of these discs on my digital cables as I've been awaiting the return of my REF10 reference clock from Mutec.


----------



## Presence

kennyb123 said:


> I make use of two some of their UEF as well, but in different form factors.  What you see to the left is my USB cable as it leaves my K30.  That's one of SR's new Carbon Tuning Discs.  To the right on the ethernet cable as it enters my K30 is of of their ECTs.  The ECTs aren't as effective as the Carbon Tuning Discs.
> 
> The Carbon Tuning Discs helped the most on my analog cables.  I haven't spent much time optimizing the use of these discs on my digital cables as I've been awaiting the return of my REF10 reference clock from Mutec.


Thanks for sharing that.
It might be worth the experiment to try them one at a time inside the chassis to get underneath the cable shielding that might be reducing their effect. 
I use the Gold Bybee Purifiers wherever I can in line with power supply outputs as well as the ground return. 
The Phoenix was a super easy install and you will hear a meaningful [at least 7%] improvement right away. Not cheap though and they add up. I have been getting them for $175ea in quantity.
The Mutec Ref10 SE120 was a bear of a mod but that too was at least 7% improvement. 
I have three each in the Phoenix and the Mutec.


----------



## andrewd01

Triode User said:


> But many owners conclude it is not optimal sound when stacked.


Yes it is a compromise, but I am out of space on my rack.  In my previous house it was on its own shelf, don’t think I can hear much difference now.  It still sounds great.


----------



## kennyb123

Presence said:


> It might be worth the experiment to try them one at a time inside the chassis to get underneath the cable shielding that might be reducing their effect.


I have a bunch of those ECTs inside my amp.  The Carbon Tuning discs may be too effective to use that way.  I was able to place Gold discs on the cables leading into the head section of my speakers.  It was a surprisingly large change - but for the worse.  The leading edge of transients was slowed that smoothed things out too much.  Moving them back to the connectors on my speakers cables as they entered my speakers was much better.



Presence said:


> The Mutec Ref10 SE120 was a bear of a mod but that too was at least 7% improvement.
> I have three each in the



My REF10 is out for delivery now.  I’m excited as it’s just been upgraded to SE120 by Mutec.  Removing the REF10 degraded the sound of my system, but surprisingly these Carbon Tuning discs brought enough of an improvement that I was no longer missing the REF10.


----------



## kennyb123

andrewd01 said:


> Yes it is a compromise, but I am out of space on my rack.  In my previous house it was on its own shelf, don’t think I can hear much difference now.  It still sounds great.


I hear you on that.  If one is forced to stack, if possible one should find ways to get more distance between them.  Tall footers are one option.


----------



## Presence

kennyb123 said:


> I have a bunch of those ECTs inside my amp.  The Carbon Tuning discs may be too effective to use that way.  I was able to place Gold discs on the cables leading into the head section of my speakers.  It was a surprisingly large change - but for the worse.  The leading edge of transients was slowed that smoothed things out too much.  Moving them back to the connectors on my speakers cables as they entered my speakers was much better.
> 
> 
> 
> My REF10 is out for delivery now.  I’m excited as it’s just been upgraded to SE120 by Mutec.  Removing the REF10 degraded the sound of my system, but surprisingly these Carbon Tuning discs brought enough of an improvement that I was no longer missing the REF10.


Excited like Santa coming around the corner in a UPS truck


----------



## Presence

If attempting to stack the CX/EX, periodically monitor for heat as the chimney effect will gradually raise the temperature in the top unit over time.
I believe it was when Tony was doing tech support that I was advised not to stack.


----------



## F208Frank

kennyb123 said:


> I make use of two some of their UEF as well, but in different form factors.  What you see to the left is my USB cable as it leaves my K30.  That's one of SR's new Carbon Tuning Discs.  To the right on the ethernet cable as it enters my K30 is of of their ECTs.  The ECTs aren't as effective as the Carbon Tuning Discs.
> 
> The Carbon Tuning Discs helped the most on my analog cables.  I haven't spent much time optimizing the use of these discs on my digital cables as I've been awaiting the return of my REF10 reference clock from Mutec.


Would you say you personally feel that master clocks are more important than the ethernet switch? 

Do you personally use an ethernet switch?


----------



## kennyb123

F208Frank said:


> Would you say you personally feel that master clocks are more important than the ethernet switch?
> 
> Do you personally use an ethernet switch?


Yes I do use an Ethernet switch - an EtherRegen powered by a Farad Super3.  It actually gets a nice boost from use of my reference clock.  

I think a good Ethernet switch is a must.  Whether one pursues a reference clock depends on what gear they own that can accept a reference clock input.  Most EtherRegen owners who have tried a reference clock with it, tend to be really positive about the benefits.


----------



## F208Frank

I was always secretly hoping that having antipodes servers would take away the need for switches, sigh.


----------



## kennyb123

F208Frank said:


> I was always secretly hoping that having antipodes servers would take away the need for switches, sigh.


I don't think any server has arrived at that point yet.  It's a really difficult problem to solve.


----------



## Whazzzup

Reminds me of an old saying, don’t go looking for problems, they’ll find you anyways.


----------



## Triode User

Well, WOW!! Antipodes are going places and that place is in the direction of the Taiko Extreme pricing.

"The Antipodes Oladra music server will debut at the High End Munich Show in May 2022, and will begin shipping in August 2022.  The world price is $25,000 (plus tariffs & taxes)."

https://antipodes.audio/oladra/


----------



## Triode User

F208Frank said:


> Do you personally use an ethernet switch?



I use an Innuos PhoenixNET with my K50 which I chose having compared the sound to the EtherRegen powered by an SBooster that I was using before I swopped to the PhoenixNET.


----------



## Whazzzup

Triode User said:


> Well, WOW!! Antipodes are going places and that place is in the direction of the Taiko Extreme pricing.
> 
> "The Antipodes Oladra music server will debut at the High End Munich Show in May 2022, and will begin shipping in August 2022.  The world price is $25,000 (plus tariffs & taxes)."
> 
> https://antipodes.audio/oladra/




Well, on the one hand  on the other yet I’m cool with it all


----------



## Progisus

It must be frustrating for Antipodes with the need to change boards. It’s certainly frustrating for owners.

This quickly changing of the Antipodes line made me think…. they are just single board computers with a fancy power supply. I’ve been listening to the K30, EX long enough I have some brain burn in. I thought, time to fire up the NUC with roon Rock and use it as the server. That didn’t last long.

All you K50 owners, how long until you upgrade?


----------



## Clive101

Progisus said:


> It must be frustrating for Antipodes with the need to change boards. It’s certainly frustrating for owners.
> 
> This quickly changing of the Antipodes line made me think…. they are just single board computers with a fancy power supply. I’ve been listening to the K30, EX long enough I have some brain burn in. I thought, time to fire up the NUC with roon Rock and use it as the server. That didn’t last long.
> 
> All you K50 owners, how long until you upgrade?


Why do you wish to purchae mine ?


----------



## worknprogress

Progisus said:


> It must be frustrating for Antipodes with the need to change boards. It’s certainly frustrating for owners.
> 
> This quickly changing of the Antipodes line made me think…. they are just single board computers with a fancy power supply. I’ve been listening to the K30, EX long enough I have some brain burn in. I thought, time to fire up the NUC with roon Rock and use it as the server. That didn’t last long.
> 
> All you K50 owners, how long until you upgrade?


I have a K50, and do not have any immediate plans to upgrade or change to a different manufacturer offering.   I was taken by surprise on the Oladra announcement.  Certainly, I am curious what perceived differences in sound quality Oladra is supposed to provide and why.  For those willing to spend this much for an audiophile server, the pricing level opens up potential consideration for other manufacturers.  I do not blame Antipodes for increased cost and availability of parts.  However, that's not to say similar issues could not affect future for Oladra as well.  I read the release that Antipodes has stockpiled parts for it, but I seem to recall similar regarding the K and S series.   The existing K and S series and upgraded CX/EX have not all the sudden lost their fine audio quality performance.  It should be quite interesting seeing how this all pans out.


----------



## kennyb123

The height of the Oladra chassis has me thinking they must have done something pretty radical in terms of the power supply.  The previous supplies they used would take up too much space if there were 3 of them as in the K50.  The name they’ve given the server here points to power supply innovation as well.  Their teaser doesn’t mention power supplies so I suspect the big reveal of that will come.

The Oladra’s higher price affords them the ability to get more extreme with their implementation.  Ballsy move though to price it at a Taiko Extreme level.

As far as their new K series lineup, I am bummed by the fact that the K30 is no more.  I envisioned it sticking around and eventually seeing the equivalent of a mk2 upgrade.  Clearly though the biggest takeaway is that little is certain as far as what the future will hold for their lineups.

On the plus side, I’m glad they offer a K21 in addition to the K22.  The reclocker in the K50 actually kept me from being interested in it as I didn’t want to pay extra for something I would not use.  Ugh - I see that K50 is only $1000 more than K41 plus K21.  To keep with a single chassis (and single power cord) the K50 would be the better choice.  I’m glad I’m not in the market for a server right now.


----------



## Ciggavelli

I think I’d have to try Oldara side by side with the Taiko Extreme, given the $10K jump from the K50.

I’m also skeptical of the improvement either would bring to a headphone setup, so I look forward to comparisons.


----------



## Clive101

Ciggavelli said:


> I think I’d have to try Oldara side by side with the Taiko Extreme


I very much doubt your existing chain will be beaten buy the Taiko......
If you are able try before the Oldara is released and let us all know what you think.


----------



## td19

andrewd01 said:


> I have the CX/EX and am also tight for space.  Mine have the original power supplies and I never notice them getting particularly warm.  I think you could stack EX on CX without any problems, but I would probably choose to stack the phono preamp instead.   I have my TT2 DAC on my EX and have no problems with either component getting excessively warm.  The Chord DAC is designed to be stacked with other TT sized components.  I have also seen Antipodes marketing shots with CX and EX stacked.


CX *must* be above EX ... it generates far more heat than the EX and needs the air flow around it.


----------



## F208Frank

Ciggavelli said:


> I think I’d have to try Oldara side by side with the Taiko Extreme, given the $10K jump from the K50.
> 
> I’m also skeptical of the improvement either would bring to a headphone setup, so I look forward to comparisons.


I was told by a respected member on here that the headphones were the bottle neck with their Taiko and scale much more with speakers.


----------



## F208Frank

While a small group of you guys are awaiting the new flagship what are your personal experiences with order of important in terms of gear, of course specifically where you would rank the antipodes server.

I'll start, though I am sure my answer will be an unpopular one:

1. DAC
2. AMP
3. SERVER
4. RECLOCKERS/CABLES

From a purely foundational view of course it should be: server, dac, amp, reclockers, cables but my experience from a "bang for buck perspective" goes in the above order.


----------



## shsoh

Hello everyone,

I have a CX/EX combo but since upgrading to the AMS platform, my iPeng cannot display the correct local artwork (folder.jpg) for my DSD (ALL .dff and some .dsf) files. I have done all the permutations of flushing cache / clear library / rescan but the end result is the same - Only the same ONE artwork will be displayed for the DSD files. This artwork happens to be the very last DSD file in the library (accordingly to /Artist/Album in alphabetical order).

I have also tried to replace that folder.jpg with another picture and sure enough, the new picture will be displayed. I have resorted to formatting the SSD and re-installed back with the library and yet the same thing happens. I suspect that the problem lies with the CX becuase the same thing happens if I use the Squeezepad app as well.

Mark told me that there is no way to do a factory reset to the CX. Does anyone have any advice for me? (No, not using Roon because Squeeze seems superior in SQ).

Thank you all!


----------



## Triode User

shsoh said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I have a CX/EX combo but since upgrading to the AMS platform, my iPeng cannot display the correct local artwork (folder.jpg) for my DSD (ALL .dff and some .dsf) files. I have done all the permutations of flushing cache / clear library / rescan but the end result is the same - Only the same ONE artwork will be displayed for the DSD files. This artwork happens to be the very last DSD file in the library (accordingly to /Artist/Album in alphabetical order).
> 
> ...


Have you tried using the Material web based server controller?


----------



## Triode User

F208Frank said:


> I was told by a respected member on here that the headphones were the bottle neck with their Taiko and scale much more with speakers.


I also think that a good speaker system is much more revealing than a good headphone system.


----------



## kennyb123

shsoh said:


> I have a CX/EX combo but since upgrading to the AMS platform, my iPeng cannot display the correct local artwork (folder.jpg) for my DSD (ALL .dff and some .dsf) files. I have done all the permutations of flushing cache / clear library / rescan but the end result is the same - Only the same ONE artwork will be displayed for the DSD files. This artwork happens to be the very last DSD file in the library (accordingly to /Artist/Album in alphabetical order).



Welcome to my world. For some strange reason, LMS can’t read artwork on some of my tracks. It’s a server problem and you can see an error reflected in the scan logs. It’s not a client issue as both iPeng and Material show no artwork.  Resetting your server won’t resolve this.  I wish I could tell what would.  I believe an open source library that’s used has a bug.  I think this same library is used with MPD as well, because some artwork doesn’t turn up there either.  It’s no an Antipodes issue as MPD on my Chord Poly can’t read these either.

Commercial software like Roon and JRiver have no problem seeing the artwork. A benefit of paying for software,


----------



## Progisus

shsoh said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I have a CX/EX combo but since upgrading to the AMS platform, my iPeng cannot display the correct local artwork (folder.jpg) for my DSD (ALL .dff and some .dsf) files. I have done all the permutations of flushing cache / clear library / rescan but the end result is the same - Only the same ONE artwork will be displayed for the DSD files. This artwork happens to be the very last DSD file in the library (accordingly to /Artist/Album in alphabetical order).
> 
> ...


I had this problem when using squeeze and mpd. I was able to cure it by removing the embedded artwork in the individual tracks and keeping the artwork in two files named folder.jpg and cover.jpg. I use mp3tag to do this. You could try it on one album first. In mo3tag, select all tracks, right click on the art picture and select remove. First save the art to cover and folder.jpg. Probably only one is needed.


----------



## shsoh

Triode User said:


> Have you tried using the Material web based server controller?


Hi, yes tried this and yet iPeng still sounds better.


----------



## shsoh

Progisus said:


> I had this problem when using squeeze and mpd. I was able to cure it by removing the embedded artwork in the individual tracks and keeping the artwork in two files named folder.jpg and cover.jpg. I use mp3tag to do this. You could try it on one album first. In mo3tag, select all tracks, right click on the art picture and select remove. First save the art to cover and folder.jpg. Probably only one is needed.


Hi, this seems like a lot of man hours on the computer doing the editing. As most of my DSD files are .dff, I believe mp3tag might not work on this file type. In this case, I should duplicate and rename a new file from folder.jpg to cover.jpg?


----------



## Progisus

shsoh said:


> Hi, this seems like a lot of man hours on the computer doing the editing. As most of my DSD files are .dff, I believe mp3tag might not work on this file type. In this case, I should duplicate and rename a new file from folder.jpg to cover.jpg?


Yes but I found it very important to remove the embedded artwork in the files. I tried a dsd file in mp3tag and it was recognized.


----------



## Triode User

shsoh said:


> Hi, yes tried this and yet iPeng still sounds better.


I stand to be corrected but as far as I can see they should sound identical because they are effectively the same thing (ie intructing LMS which file to play) but achieved in differing ways.


----------



## Progisus

Normally I use my EX direct streamed from the K30 as a PGGB player in either Squeeze or Hqplayer naa mode. Although Squeeze has a slight upgrade to Hqplayer naa, I don’t like that it resamples the wave files to make them playable. Today I changed it’s functionality to server/player, inserted an ssd and loaded a couple PGGB albums. I then selected MPD as the player and used Rigelian (IOS) as a controller. This routes the album directly from the ssd to the MPD player without leaving the EX. IMHO there is a marked increase in the quality as compared to squeeze. It is too bad the K series with separate server and player on the same machine is unable to do this.

FWIW… I am disappointed that the player version upgrades promised with the new software appear to require a full suite install. This causes issues for some and prevents Antipodes releasing them. i.e. there have been several hqplayer updates which fix the need to reboot after config changes. The fix actually came out the day after our last upgrade.


----------



## shsoh

Triode User said:


> I stand to be corrected but as far as I can see they should sound identical because they are effectively the same thing (ie intructing LMS which file to play) but achieved in differing ways.


Haha. Yes at first they both sounded similar but yes there is a subtle difference.


Progisus said:


> Normally I use my EX direct streamed from the K30 as a PGGB player in either Squeeze or Hqplayer naa mode. Although Squeeze has a slight upgrade to Hqplayer naa, I don’t like that it resamples the wave files to make them playable. Today I changed it’s functionality to server/player, inserted an ssd and loaded a couple PGGB albums. I then selected MPD as the player and used Rigelian (IOS) as a controller. This routes the album directly from the ssd to the MPD player without leaving the EX. IMHO there is a marked increase in the quality as compared to squeeze. It is too bad the K series with separate server and player on the same machine is unable to do this.
> 
> FWIW… I am disappointed that the player version upgrades promised with the new software appear to require a full suite install. This causes issues for some and prevents Antipodes releasing them. i.e. there have been several hqplayer updates which fix the need to reboot after config changes. The fix actually came out the day after our last upgrade.


I’m trying to use MPD (with Rigelian app) for my CX/EX but I read from somewhere that this is not possible for separate server / streamer units?


----------



## Triode User

Progisus said:


> I then selected MPD as the player and used Rigelian (IOS) as a controller. This routes the album directly from the ssd to the MPD player without leaving the EX. IMHO there is a marked increase in the quality as compared to squeeze. It is too bad the K series with separate server and player on the same machine is unable to do this.


It is interesting that you prefer MPD compared to Squeeze. Is this just with PGGB wav files or does it apply to non PGGB flac files as well? Is it possible to have a crack at describing what specific aspects of the sound with MPD you prefer?


----------



## Progisus

shsoh said:


> Haha. Yes at first they both sounded similar but yes there is a subtle difference.
> 
> I’m trying to use MPD (with Rigelian app) for my CX/EX but I read from somewhere that this is not possible for separate server / streamer units?


My K30 with direct stream to my EX is the equivalent of a CX/EX. You would need to change the function of the EX to server/player and then install an ssd with some music. You do not need to run any server apps on the EX. Setting the EX to server/player opens up access to it’s library. Then set the EX player to MPD. This will link the MPD player to the EX library. In Rigelian makes sure to update the database.


----------



## Progisus

Triode User said:


> It is interesting that you prefer MPD compared to Squeeze. Is this just with PGGB wav files or does it apply to non PGGB flac files as well? Is it possible to have a crack at describing what specific aspects of the sound with MPD you prefer?


The main reason for using MPD is for PGGB files but I have compared flac as well. With MPD as compared to Squeeze (ymmv of course) I felt there were more micro details and a more relaxed analog sound. I’m just lucky I kept my EX when I upgraded to the K30. With all the model changes I sometimes feel the S series would have been the most flexible choice.


----------



## shsoh

Progisus said:


> My K30 with direct stream to my EX is the equivalent of a CX/EX. You would need to change the function of the EX to server/player and then install an ssd with some music. You do not need to run any server apps on the EX. Setting the EX to server/player opens up access to it’s library. Then set the EX player to MPD. This will link the MPD player to the EX library. In Rigelian makes sure to update the database.


Thanks for the advice. To sum it up:
EX: set to server / player and add in a SSD with “some music”. Run MPD on player. 
CX: set to server? Which app should I run here? All my music is in the SSD here.


----------



## Progisus

shsoh said:


> Thanks for the advice. To sum it up:
> EX: set to server / player and add in a SSD with “some music”. Run MPD on player.
> CX: set to server? Which app should I run here? All my music is in the SSD here.


Just leave the CX as a server running it’s current apps and not playing. When you select MPD on the EX it will take over the usb port and play from that port as a stand alone player/server.


----------



## Progisus

Instead of requiring a 4tb ssd for EX I have directed it to my nas where I keep my PGGB files backed up. This also worked great. Now I just need to determine if the  quality is comparable to the files on the ssd. I know that files streamed through mconnect are of lesser sound quality.


----------



## shsoh (Apr 18, 2022)

I installed a SSD into the EX and followed through the steps. Finally got the MPD to work using the Rigelian app but it doesn’t output DSD. Therefore it’s a no for me. This means I have to live with Squeeze having the annoying problem of wrong artwork display for my DSD files.


----------



## Progisus

Just a final on my EX and MPD…. I added an smb folder to the EX library that points to my PGGB folder on the K30. As they are connected by direct stream this is the cleanest ethernet path. No need for a larger ssd. The sound quality is 🤩. MPD direct… It is the way. haha


----------



## F208Frank

Holy moly. I was told by fellow member few K50 owners can no longer use phoenixnet after recent update on the K50? Anyone else can confirm this?

Are antipodes going to fix this or was this intentional?

P Net only has 100mbps ports and the K50 now only takes in 1000mbps I was told.

Extremely bummed out as I already ordered the Phoenix Net.


----------



## worknprogress

I suggest asking this on Antipodes Audio Forum, https://antipodes.support, for a direct answer from Antipodes.   By recent K50 update, do you mean the software update or the hardware changes that happened with forced changes due to supply chain?   I have a K50, which from the back resembles the original design.  I have not opened the top to see if it appears to look as the original pictures indicated.   My K50 has had the software updates.   I do not have a PhoenixNET, but have a PF Buffalo, where ports are similar to the Melco S100 switch.   My ethernet input to my K50 is fed by the 100MB, not 1000MB port of my PF Buffalo.  I do not have problems with it functioning.


----------



## kennyb123

F208Frank said:


> Holy moly. I was told by fellow member few K50 owners can no longer use phoenixnet after recent update on the K50? Anyone else can confirm this?
> 
> Are antipodes going to fix this or was this intentional?
> 
> ...


I don’t believe this is true.  No need to stir up rumors when Antipodes is so easy to contact.


----------



## F208Frank

kennyb123 said:


> I don’t believe this is true.  No need to stir up rumors when Antipodes is so easy to contact.


I contacted Mark and was told it was not true, but his switch was a 100/1000 so wanted to cross reference with members who only had a 100 mbps switch. I only brought this up as I was told some users are experiencing issues with 100mbps ports from their switches or ethernet cables capable of only 100 mbps into their K50. I did not experience this for myself but wanted to cross check as I do have the Phoenix on the way.

Apologize if I rubbed anyone the wrong way, just trying to see if I need to cancel the PhoenixNet order.


----------



## kennyb123

F208Frank said:


> I contacted Mark and was told it was not true, but his switch was a 100/1000 so wanted to cross reference with members who only had a 100 mbps switch. I only brought this up as I was told some users are experiencing issues with 100mbps ports from their switches or ethernet cables capable of only 100 mbps into their K50. I did not experience this for myself but wanted to cross check as I do have the Phoenix on the way.
> 
> Apologize if I rubbed anyone the wrong way, just trying to see if I need to cancel the PhoenixNet order.


I can understand your concern.  Running 100 mbps into an Antipodes server is quite common.  Those of us with EtherRegens are doing that too.  A software change is super-unlikely to break this.  Where did you read that some folks with Antipodes servers are having issues with this?


----------



## F208Frank (Apr 29, 2022)

kennyb123 said:


> I can understand your concern.  Running 100 mbps into an Antipodes server is quite common.  Those of us with EtherRegens are doing that too.  A software change is super-unlikely to break this.  Where did you read that some folks with Antipodes servers are having issues with this?


I was considering to buy an ethernet filter (usually placed in the chain behind an ethernet switch used as a passive filter) from company Network Acoustics. Rob (co-owner) mentioned to me recently he had customers with PhoenixNets unable to be used with the K50 since the handshake only for K50 only allows for 1000mbps recently. I was concerned since my PhoenixNet was on the way so was searching for a quick answer by messaging Mark Cole.

Rob was met via one of the head fi threads and was nice enough to encourage me trying out a regular non audiophile switch between router and streamer, and I did find it being helpful.

Mark Cole mentioned that it should not be the case that the K50 not working with only 100mbps products, so I wanted to run it by members of the forums, to help aid decision if canceling PhoenixNET or not.

As of right now I am just leaving the order as is. Mark is investigating as well I believe.

I will provide an update regardless to clear up the smoke I caused.

EDIT/UPDATE: PhoenixNET works with K50.


----------



## Triode User (Apr 19, 2022)

F208Frank said:


> Holy moly. I was told by fellow member few K50 owners can no longer use phoenixnet after recent update on the K50? Anyone else can confirm this?
> 
> Are antipodes going to fix this or was this intentional?
> 
> ...


I use the PhoenixNET with my latest version K50. There are no issues whatsoever. It works perfectly.

That must be a false rumour you have heard.

PS. My PhoenixNET worked 100% perfectly with my original version K50 as well.
PPS. I much prefer the PhoenixNET over the ER which I had previously.


----------



## F208Frank

Triode User said:


> I use the PhoenixNET with my latest version K50. There are no issues whatsoever. It works perfectly.
> 
> That must be a false rumour you have heard.
> 
> ...


Ok thank you very much for clarifying this, sorry for the slight confusion. As mentioned I only mentioned randomly out the blue as that was told to me. I have a P-Net on the way to me as well, and I am drawing a hard line that this will be my last or 2nd to last item in a long long time. I pushed my financial/comfort limits to the max once again, some things do not change.


----------



## andrewd01

Triode User said:


> Well, WOW!! Antipodes are going places and that place is in the direction of the Taiko Extreme pricing.
> 
> "The Antipodes Oladra music server will debut at the High End Munich Show in May 2022, and will begin shipping in August 2022.  The world price is $25,000 (plus tariffs & taxes)."
> 
> https://antipodes.audio/oladra/



Interesting product!  I don’t like the styling much, but I can see it would be very expensive to make - looks like CNC machined from a single billet. 21kg!  Looking forward to reading the reviews from the early adopters.  

This is good news for those that like to buy these servers used since a bunch of year old K50’s will soon be on the used market and this will in turn lead to CX/EX used prices falling further.


----------



## Clive101

So, has anyone pre-ordered the Oladra ?
Come on own up


----------



## Whazzzup

Never mind that DX is not in the title -)


----------



## andrewd01

My money’s on @Triode User to be the first in this group to get the Oladra


----------



## kennyb123

andrewd01 said:


> My money’s on @Triode User to be the first in this group to get the Oladra



That’s as safe bet.

As an aside, Innuos just announced an upgraded power supply for their Statement server.  The supply pushes the price of the Statement north of $20k.


----------



## Ciggavelli

kennyb123 said:


> That’s as safe bet.
> 
> As an aside, Innuos just announced an upgraded power supply for their Statement server.  The supply pushes the price of the Statement north of $20k.


The new statement is using Arc 6 too like the DAVE PSUs. Shame that the statement maxes out at 8tb, you can’t change the ssds by yourself, and has a bad UI. I love their PhoenixUSB, likely due to the SJ power supply (same with the DC4 PSUs). 

The price of streamers is getting ridiculous though. I assume there must be a market for $20K streamers or they wouldn’t be making them I guess.


----------



## F208Frank

Ciggavelli said:


> The new statement is using Arc 6 too like the DAVE PSUs. Shame that the statement maxes out at 8tb, you can’t change the ssds by yourself, and has a bad UI. I love their PhoenixUSB, likely due to the SJ power supply (same with the DC4 PSUs).
> 
> The price of streamers is getting ridiculous though. I assume there must be a market for $20K streamers or they wouldn’t be making them I guess.


Definitely getting ridic.


----------



## RKClem (Apr 23, 2022)

Hi, I have the CX/EX combo.  I have just seen a used Uptone Audio USB ISO Regen come up for sale.  Is there any benefit adding this after the EX?  Cheers.


----------



## kennyb123

RKClem said:


> Hi, I have the CX/EX combo.  I have just seen a used Uptone Audio USB ISO Regen come up for sale.  Is there any benefit adding this between the CX and the EX or after the EX?  Cheers.


The ISO Regen is a USB doohickey so you’d use it between your DAC and your EX.  I used to own one and it was worthwhile with a microRendu.  When I moved up to an Innuos Zenith, it no longer provided a benefit.  I suspect that will be the case with your CX/EX as well.


----------



## Triode User (Apr 24, 2022)

Ciggavelli said:


> The new statement is using Arc 6 too like the DAVE PSUs. Shame that the statement maxes out at 8tb, you can’t change the ssds by yourself, and has a bad UI. I love their PhoenixUSB, likely due to the SJ power supply (same with the DC4 PSUs).
> 
> The price of streamers is getting ridiculous though. I assume there must be a market for $20K streamers or they wouldn’t be making them I guess.


If I recall correctly the Statement power supply has eight voltage rails. That is going to be a tough act to fit 8 x ARC6 in that footprint. The non upgraded Statement has 8 x DC3 in its power supply case. Each DC4 board is twice the size of the DC3 and the ARC6 is considerably bigger again and also has a large choke for each voltage rail.

I wonder if the upgraded power supply to the Statement also upgrades the regulator stages in the main processor case of the Statement. The current ones also look as if they are based on the DC3. 

I originally had a DC3 power supply for my Dave and having tried for myself just upgrading the digital supply rail to DC4 and then ARC6 I can anticipate that the ARC6 upgrade to the Statement will make a huge difference to it. I no longer have a Statement though so I cannot try.

I wonder if the Phoenix range will also get the option of moving up from their DC3 supplies.


----------



## Triode User

kennyb123 said:


> The ISO Regen is a USB doohickey so you’d use it between your DAC and your EX.  I used to own one and it was worthwhile with a microRendu.  When I moved up to an Innuos Zenith, it no longer provided a benefit.  I suspect that will be the case with your CX/EX as well.


@RKClem  you are possibly better keeping your eyes open for a used PhoenixUSB. That made a good difference to my Zenith and continues to make a very worthwhile difference with my K50. I thought I might be able to sell it when I moved to the K50 but that was not the case.


----------



## FlikFlac

Hi,

I have a K30 with a 12v output socket and I’m curious as to whether I could use this to power my TT2 or Mscaler? I suppose its intention is to power an additional Antipodes unit, but that’s not on my radar at the moment. I’m happy to experiment of course, but does anyone know what it’s rating might be? Thanks


----------



## andrewd01

RKClem said:


> Hi, I have the CX/EX combo.  I have just seen a used Uptone Audio USB ISO Regen come up for sale.  Is there any benefit adding this after the EX?  Cheers.


This would require an extra USB cable and make more clutter. I own CX/EX  and this wouldn’t be something I would bother with, but the only way to satisfy your curiosity is to try it.  If buying used you could probably flip it for what you paid for it.  Please report your findings.


----------



## F208Frank (Apr 24, 2022)

I always felt that the CX/EX combo was really good, had I not sold my CX, I would have just kept my CX/EX. I also feel like those products specifically put Antipodes on the map/radar of many.


----------



## andrewd01

FlikFlac said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have a K30 with a 12v output socket and I’m curious as to whether I could use this to power my TT2 or Mscaler? I suppose its intention is to power an additional Antipodes unit, but that’s not on my radar at the moment. I’m happy to experiment of course, but does anyone know what it’s rating might be? Thanks


TT2 and M scaler both need a 15V power supply so the answer is no.


----------



## Progisus

andrewd01 said:


> TT2 and M scaler both need a 15V power supply so the answer is no.


I see oeople run them off battery so 12v may work as long as there is enough current available.


----------



## Triode User

FlikFlac said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have a K30 with a 12v output socket and I’m curious as to whether I could use this to power my TT2 or Mscaler? I suppose its intention is to power an additional Antipodes unit, but that’s not on my radar at the moment. I’m happy to experiment of course, but does anyone know what it’s rating might be? Thanks


The 12V should be fine but just check what amps the K30 12V output can supply. 

Also, just a word of caution, I personally would not risk cross contamination of noise by connecting the Mscaler to the K30 dc output.


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> I see oeople run them off battery so 12v may work as long as there is enough current available.


Yes I ran both my MScaler and TT2 off batteries at 12v at one point.


----------



## kennyb123

Triode User said:


> Also, just a word of caution, I personally would not risk cross contamination of noise by connecting the Mscaler to the K30 dc output.


+1


----------



## RKClem

I have had the CX/EX combo in my system for a couple of weeks and I am very impressed.  The next thing to consider is if I take up the option of a Oladra upgrade for each unit.  Is anyone prepared to put a percentage increase on the sound quality improvements achieved with the upgrade to help me with the decision?


----------



## Triode User

RKClem said:


> I have had the CX/EX combo in my system for a couple of weeks and I am very impressed.  The next thing to consider is if I take up the option of a Oladra upgrade for each unit.  Is anyone prepared to put a percentage increase on the sound quality improvements achieved with the upgrade to help me with the decision?


Is the oladra upgrade still available? I thought it was a time limited offer, now expired.


----------



## Whazzzup

RKClem said:


> I have had the CX/EX combo in my system for a couple of weeks and I am very impressed.  The next thing to consider is if I take up the option of a Oladra upgrade for each unit.  Is anyone prepared to put a percentage increase on the sound quality improvements achieved with the upgrade to help me with the decision?


Did it for my dx3 and won’t give a %, it’s a more powerful processing speed, more intimate and more detailed sound. It’s louder as well, so I turned my gain down on my gsx mk2. i certainly am happy, but it’s just the one box Solution that I was fully prepared to ride into the sunset with. I’d think there are Cx/ex upgrades out there that can give a direct comparison.


----------



## shsoh

I just realised that different SSDs can give very different types of sound signature. I have tried only 2 on my CX going into EX:
Using Samsung 850 EVO 2TB - Very clean, sounds softer, polite with hifi-ish signature
Using Samsung Enterprise PM series 2TB - Fuller bodied, more bass, organic and dynamic - I choose this now.

Wonder if the rest can share similar experience here.


----------



## F208Frank

Anyone else here use material skin? I was browsing the antipodes forums and saw that many appreciated the material interface/skin, some users mentioned in the past firmware versions, one can launch material from myantipodes. 

For our current up to date firmware, does the option to use material disappear or is the overall blue theme of the squeeze server/player automatically already using the material skin?


----------



## Progisus

F208Frank said:


> Anyone else here use material skin? I was browsing the antipodes forums and saw that many appreciated the material interface/skin, some users mentioned in the past firmware versions, one can launch material from myantipodes.
> 
> For our current up to date firmware, does the option to use material disappear or is the overall blue theme of the squeeze server/player automatically already using the material skin?


I believe the material skin is the standard with the current software. You can use an IOS software called iPeng as well on your ipad or iphone.


----------



## F208Frank (Apr 28, 2022)

Progisus said:


> I believe the material skin is the standard with the current software. You can use an IOS software called iPeng as well on your ipad or iphone.


Ok that makes sense, thank you much.

Damn if this is already the material skin, the previous skin must have been atrocious.

Can't deny that both server/player squeeze sounds better though.

Anyone have luck being able to add tracks via Squeeze when using Tidal and also having it sync into their Tidal? When I "add song to favorites" in Squeeze, it does some odd ball thing where it goes my favorites folder but not into Tidal.


----------



## andrewd01 (Apr 30, 2022)

Triode User said:


> Is the oladra upgrade still available? I thought it was a time limited offer, now expired.



I had a look at the antipodes web site and it does indicate that they are able to do these upgrades on an ongoing basis.  When it was initially announced they were saying that it was limited offer due to the need to reconfigure the factory.  The time window to make the expensive decision was ridiculously short, so it is good news that they can continue to do the upgrades.

Maybe I will be tempted to do mine in the future.  I love the styling of the CX/EX series, especially the green LEDS  The K series are crazy money for me.

https://antipodes.audio/upgrades/


----------



## Triode User

Progisus said:


> I believe the material skin is the standard with the current software. You can use an IOS software called iPeng as well on your ipad or iphone.


I tend to swop between Material and iPeng because in some ways I find iPeng easier to use but in other ways I prefer the Material interface. They both have nil effect on the sound of Squeeze/Squeezelite as far as I can tell.


----------



## Presence

A bit off topic, but I'll throw in that I've got both the CX & EX switched from Orange to Purple SR fuses, they are both backwards in terms of direction and producing positive improvements. I found putting them in the rest of the system in place of Orange also has produced transformative results. To contrast before and after, it's as though all of the harmonics were constrained from getting through and now the music freely flows through the speakers making for a transformational holographic experience. 
Most of the fuses are tie-wrapped to the positive wire after the IEC with the fuse dot facing the wire. After a week of listening, I found that in my system and with the fuses I had, they also sounded better in reverse direction in the Ref10 120SE, the Phoenix and the DAC. The preamps sounded best with the Purple fuse labeling facing towards the preamps.

Related to that, I have a pair of Krell Class A mono blocks that I shut off after listening as their combined standby power is 450W. Using the SR fuses would require the settling in process to start all over again with each new listening session. I don't know if the SR fuses require a certain amount of current in the circuit to maintain their effectiveness but I was thinking of using a resistor across the 240VAC line after the IEC and before the amp's breaker switch. I'd then tie wrap a fuse to the positive lead between the IEC inlet and before the resistor to keep a small amount of current flowing when the amp breaker switch is off. If I used a 500K ohm non-inductive resistor across the 240VAC line it would draw *.*5mA and dissipate* .*12W  I would use a 1W or higher power rating. Outside of a lightening strike, any feedback as to other negative effects and whether it's worth a try?


----------



## kennyb123

Presence said:


> Most of the fuses are tie-wrapped to the positive wire after the IEC with the fuse dot facing the wire.


What does that look like?  Can you share any pics?


----------



## Presence

kennyb123 said:


> What does that look like?  Can you share any pics?


----------



## Progisus

They are not working as a fuse. This is the scary part of unlicensed users applying a protective device. Even if used to replace an existing fuse, they must be rated correctly and certified. The function of a fuse is to protect against 🔥.


----------



## Triode User

Progisus said:


> They are not working as a fuse. This is the scary part of unlicensed users applying a protective device. Even if used to replace an existing fuse, they must be rated correctly and certified. The function of a fuse is to protect against 🔥.


Well another function of the fuse there is to protect the device from overload damage. For example last week a friend somehow had his K50 swopped over to the 115v setting (don’t ask!!) and plugged it into the 230v mains. The k50 fuse(s) blew and no harm was done to the K50.

I have only tried one SR fuse. A different friend loaned it to me. I am afraid I heard no difference whatsoever and so gave it back to him.


----------



## Clive101 (May 2, 2022)

In the UK 240 volt, we have fuses in the plug and fuses in HiFi equipment yet no fuses in 110 volt plugs in a high risk area like a building site. (yes I know 110 less harmfull)
There are also no fuses in a UK 240 volt 16 amp or 32 amp plug.
Plug fuses normally protect the cable not the appliance........
If you have a fused plug in your system you may find it perform better without a fuse...which is why some people in the UK use escutcheon plugs (European plug).
All my Hifi is protected by my power supply and additional fuses inside the equipment.
I tried various fuses in plugs, all made a difference in sound but no fuse sounds best to me.
To me by accident when my fuses blow in the K50 I reversed direction of one fuse which to me was the sweet spot as fuse direction made a difference in sound.
If you doubt fuses in the antipodes try using some cheap glass fuses of the same rating, ceramic fuses sound better in my opinion give it a try and let us know the outcome.

Edit If you put the fuse holder in a different way than set by the manufacturer it changes the input voltage


----------



## Presence (May 2, 2022)

Wow...
I once suggested on another forum thread that a manufacturer's amplifier couldn't meet it's claimed 2 ohm continuous power spec as the specified power supply was under rated.
I got responses like, " You'd never want to send 800W into a tweeter - it would blow..." Then the pile on.

This is the same. The "quantum" dot on the side of the fuse is doing whatever it is that it does to positively affect the sound. Do I really need to say that the SR fuse strapped to the incoming AC wire is no longer functionally a fuse in this case and that its rating is inconsequential? Really?

The 2.5A slo-blo fuses that replaced the original 1A are still in the fuse holder since the PS upgrade.
Thanks guys for all the backhanded comments, invalidations and the lecture.


----------



## Whazzzup

Err another site lectured you and backhand comment is for this thread? You ok


----------



## Progisus

A 1 amp fuse should never be replaced by a higher rating. A fuse will interrupt the current flow if it rises above the rating on the fuse. This is to protect devices in the unit and prevent possibility of fire. Sorry if my comment was backhanded. I was in charge of CSA certification for our company (electrical controls manufacture) and people protection was paramount. The way the fuse is applied in the photo provides no electrical connection or protection. As to the “dot” providing sonic improvement I cannot say. Tweaks are great fun but should be avoided if it means opening and modifying a certified piece of equipment. If access is provided by the manufacturer to the fuses they can be changed but only to one of the same rating and the fuse should be certified by a governing body for the location. i.e. UL, CSA etc.


----------



## kennyb123

Presence said:


> This is the same. The "quantum" dot on the side of the fuse is doing whatever it is that it does to positively affect the sound. Do I really need to say that the SR fuse strapped to the incoming AC wire is no longer functionally a fuse in this case and that its rating is inconsequential? Really?


Sorry but yeah, you do need to say that.  It’s difficult not to have a “what the heck” reaction to “fuse” along with the words “strapped”.  In all the years I’ve been aware of SR fuses, I had never seen anyone strapping them. The manufacturer doesn’t even talk about this particular use case.  Looking back to your post and I can’t tell if you actually installed the Purple fuses normally into your CX and EX or whether they “are tie-wrapped to the positive wire after the IEC with the fuse dot facing the wire”.  I’m not saying you shouldn’t strap them.  I’m just saying that it would have benefited your readers to preface your remarks with an explanation.


----------



## richardloh

https://www.stereonet.com/au/news/a...r-player-reclocker-high-end-munich-2022-debut

Wow ... latest and greatest at aud35k rrp.

Retired with sparse income since Mar 2021 but glad to had my oladra blue led CX and EX stack instead of the K50 to drop out of the "chase" of this latest and greatest yet again since not at all tempted with this level ... of $ 😅

Back to music ...  cheers.


----------



## Whazzzup

one day someone going to step up to that bad boy


----------



## Presence (May 4, 2022)

Progisus said:


> A 1 amp fuse should never be replaced by a higher rating. A fuse will interrupt the current flow if it rises above the rating on the fuse. This is to protect devices in the unit and prevent possibility of fire. Sorry if my comment was backhanded. I was in charge of CSA certification for our company (electrical controls manufacture) and people protection was paramount. The way the fuse is applied in the photo provides no electrical connection or protection. As to the “dot” providing sonic improvement I cannot say. Tweaks are great fun but should be avoided if it means opening and modifying a certified piece of equipment. If access is provided by the manufacturer to the fuses they can be changed but only to one of the same rating and the fuse should be certified by a governing body for the location. i.e. UL, CSA etc.


Once again, you are taking things out of context to substantiate your own biased listening.
The original 1A fuses that went into the original CX/EX LPS were replaced by Antipodes with a pair of 2.5A SB upon PS upgrade at/by the factory.
In Mark Cole's own words, the new hybrid PS has a higher start up current warranting the higher A fuses.


----------



## Presence (May 4, 2022)

kennyb123 said:


> Sorry but yeah, you do need to say that.  It’s difficult not to have a “what the heck” reaction to “fuse” along with the words “strapped”.  In all the years I’ve been aware of SR fuses, I had never seen anyone strapping them. The manufacturer doesn’t even talk about this particular use case.  Looking back to your post and I can’t tell if you actually installed the Purple fuses normally into your CX and EX or whether they “are tie-wrapped to the positive wire after the IEC with the fuse dot facing the wire”.  I’m not saying you shouldn’t strap them.  I’m just saying that it would have benefited your readers to preface your remarks with an explanation.


I've had several at-length conversations with SR pertaining to this. The higher gauge AC-carrying lead is now influenced by the dot instead of the fuse strand and this is uncharted territory for them as they have to sell the fuse as a fuse. [Perhaps] Keeping with company protocol, they are encouraging me to use the Purple/Gold Carbon Tuning discs as the Purple compound on the disc is the same as on the dot only with higher concentration. The higher concentration may be an issue as I've experimented adding a fuse to each leg of the 240V feed with mixed results and if the disc is radiating like an antennae, it may be also throw off the other pole.
After reading the near 100% positive reviews on the fuses [save for the trolls] and what I at least perceived as mixed reviews on the discs, this is the route I have chosen.
I have a DAC with regenerative power supply where putting a fuse in front of the regenerator [perhaps] isolated the expected effects going to its three isolation transformers to L, R and Digital dedicated power supplies. After a number of experiments, I settled on a strapped fuse after the regenerator to the to two paralleled analog isolation transformers and one to the digital isolation transformer. The directionality on each was easily perceptible.
I used to over simplify changes to the system as percentages as I upgraded up from original DX2 to DX3 to CX/EX to OLADRA CX/EX Hybrid PS.
As the imaging expanded out to 180 degrees I would assign a % improvement. Mark Jenkins asserted that I would hear a 50% improvement upgrading from DX3 to CX/EX and I found his assertion to be in the ballpark. Going from SR Orange to Purple is more of a transformation as the presentation moves into 3D sphere-like holography that I didn't know existed past a 180 degree soundstage. The out-of-phase L + R tracks on the Rives Audio Test CD  would play back the sound source at 0 or 180 degrees through the original CX/EX  and recorded out-of-phase tracks would appear to the listener's right or left but there was no convincing weight or harmonic believably to the out-of-phaseness of the instruments/voices.
In my experience, the brain marvels at these soundstage expansions but once the brain normalizes them, the original enthrallment fades and it goes back to near 100% analyzing the sound.
Examples are the far-right vocal on My Wife [Who's Next], Bonham's drums between 0 and 35 degrees on Since I've Been Loving You or the guitars at 0 and 180 degrees during the intro of Siberian Khatru [Yes-Close To The Edge].
Additionally, choirs and symphonies are now drawing me in as the SR Purple have increased the resolving power to break apart multiple instruments and the acoustic affect of the venue to hearing around each voice/instrument and separate the reverberations of the hall. This is allowing me to listen through entire albums being completely
drawn in to the sphere-like sound space and the harmonic and spacial realness.
There's just more information coming through.
On a different data point, I went back to a comparison between all-Roon and all-Squeeze and comparatively heard a warm glow from Squeeze and a cold presentation from Roon. The detail was equivalent.



 



The multiple horns on Beginnings on the 2002 Chicago Transit Authority remaster [not the 2015 remaster] and the opening of Sara Hannigan's Let Me Tell You [which musically, I'm not a fan of and is more of a test recording for me] reveals the level my system resolves two or more combined voice/instrument frequency ranges that have appeared smeared played back on my system.


----------



## Progisus

Presence said:


> In Mark Cole's own words, the new hybrid PS has a higher start up current warranting the higher A fuses


This part makes sense as it is done by the manufacturer. None of my comments pertained to “biased listening”, only to safety.


----------



## Presence

Progisus said:


> This part makes sense as it is done by the manufacturer. None of my comments pertained to “biased listening”, only to safety.


I appreciate your persistent concern. Thank you. Per kennyb123, I could have explained things more precisely.

Best regards,

Rich


----------



## cczero17

I thought I would give Squeeze a go by enabling Squeezebox Support in Roon. Is there any reason why it only supports up to 192? Any files have above that are downsampled I've found

Cheers


----------



## Whazzzup (May 5, 2022)

cczero17 said:


> I thought I would give Squeeze a go by enabling Squeezebox Support in Roon. Is there any reason why it only supports up to 192? Any files have above that are downsampled I've found
> 
> Cheers


It is what it is, I prefer roon but seem to be in minority, not that I care. Ps, couldn’t tell much difference anyway


----------



## Triode User

cczero17 said:


> I thought I would give Squeeze a go by enabling Squeezebox Support in Roon. Is there any reason why it only supports up to 192? Any files have above that are downsampled I've found
> 
> Cheers


I assume you are using USB output?

I'm not sure if Roon also supports high sample rates with Squeezelite as the player

But if using Squeeze Server and Squeezelite Player one needs to go into the Library settings in Material and enable the C3PO plug-in, then in the Player settings scroll down to select the sample output rates required. I have mine enabled up to 705 and 768 so I can play PGGB upsampled files.


----------



## cczero17

Triode User said:


> I assume you are using USB output?
> 
> I'm not sure if Roon also supports high sample rates with Squeezelite as the player
> 
> But if using Squeeze Server and Squeezelite Player one needs to go into the Library settings in Material and enable the C3PO plug-in, then in the Player settings scroll down to select the sample output rates required. I have mine enabled up to 705 and 768 so I can play PGGB upsampled files.


Hmmm that's beyond what I'm doing. I've just selected Squeeze on the CX and EX and within roon. I'm just using roon as I would if roon was selected. I may need some screenshots/idiot's guide to anything beyond this. BTW, I've recently found that selecting roon over hqplayer is significantly better sonically. I was very surprised tbh.


----------



## andrewd01 (May 6, 2022)

richardloh said:


> https://www.stereonet.com/au/news/a...r-player-reclocker-high-end-munich-2022-debut
> 
> Wow ... latest and greatest at aud35k rrp.



You will be able to get one for 3k when Oladra mk3 is released in 2024

35k AUD is quite a good price for the Oladra. In the UK they are £25k (43k AUD).


----------



## Clive101

From the Antipodes website

"One notable feature of the Oladra is that there is no conventional power fuse – eliminating the sound quality problems introduced by conventional fuses.  The Oladra complies with all relevant consumer equipment regulations, using sophisticated protection directly before the rectification stage where it is needed."

So no fuses ....fantasic 

But

"The Oladra has no linear power supply components, and combines three different smps topologies in a cascade."

Does this mean RF injected back into the mains ?


----------



## Triode User

Clive101 said:


> From the Antipodes website
> 
> "One notable feature of the Oladra is that there is no conventional power fuse – eliminating the sound quality problems introduced by conventional fuses.  The Oladra complies with all relevant consumer equipment regulations, using sophisticated protection directly before the rectification stage where it is needed."
> 
> ...


I suspected SMPS when I saw the slim height of the Olandra. It is one reason why I am not getting too excited about it. 

If it hasn't got LPS and just has cheaper SMPS then maybe a large chunk of the cost is going on that solid aluminium case . . .


----------



## kennyb123

Clive101 said:


> Does this mean RF injected back into the mains ?


Why would it mean that? 

Here's something Emile from Taiko wrote:

"So interestingly, low frequency noise like that generated by linear power supplies is very hard to attenuate on the AC side, SMPS noise is much easier to filter. However we do seem to be less offended by linear power supply generated noise then by SMPS generated noise."

Here's a more detailed post from him.  I'll quote the part that's relevant to what Antipodes is likely doing:

"So anyway, there are definitely merits in exploring Switch Mode Power Supplies for audiophile applications, the benefits over Linear Power Supplies are obvious, if implemented correctly, it can be much lower noise then a Linear Power Supply for higher current applications, have a much smaller footprint and no massive heatsinking requirements, BUT they should be designed to not have any switching "noise" anywhere near the audio frequency range, or even better yet no measurable residual whatsoever."


----------



## Clive101 (May 6, 2022)

Double post


----------



## Clive101

Triode User said:


> I suspected SMPS when I saw the slim height of the Olandra. It is one reason why I am not getting too excited about it.
> 
> If it hasn't got LPS and just has cheaper SMPS then maybe a large chunk of the cost is going on that solid aluminium case . . .


Same thinking as me.....
Perhaps I will cancel my order !


----------



## Clive101

kennyb123 said:


> Why would it mean that?
> 
> Here's something Emile from Taiko wrote:
> 
> ...


It's a question, I made no statement that it was a fact...


----------



## 12grayclouds (May 6, 2022)

Nothing Antipodes does on Power supplies is cheap and being on the cutting edge of technology costs.


----------



## kennyb123

Clive101 said:


> It's a question, I made no statement that it was a fact...


Your question contained a presupposition so I just wondered why you thought that this needed to be asked.  

My question was largely rhetorical as I aimed to share some information that I thought you and others might find interesting with respect to switching mode power supplies.  Knowing what Emile had written a while back, my reaction to what you posted about the Oladra's power supply was positive.  I'm enthusiastic about Antipodes thinking outside the box on this stuff.  

Nick is probably right that there was a cost savings that came from this approach.  I see that as good news as it makes it more likely that this technology can trickle down.  Excellent linear supplies don't trickle down well.


----------



## shsoh

Turns out that listening to the CX / EX via Squeeze will occasionally lead to a split second disruption during music playback. This can happen randomly for DSD64 and DSD128 tracks. I have not tried on full length albums in other formats yet. I have none of these problems when I use my SOtM SMS 200 streamer before the EX. Does anyone have similar experience?


----------



## Progisus

Rob Watts has been a proponent of smps and says lps are a bigger noise problem.


----------



## Triode User

Progisus said:


> Rob Watts has been a proponent of smps and says lps are a bigger noise problem.


But it doesn’t mean he is right that the smps in the Dave sounds best (hint, it doesn’t).

Also, his assumption is that an LPS powering the Dave will have a brighter sound due to additional noise that the LPS lets through (it doesn’t sound that way).

I was listening to the track Rajaz (Camel) last night at some insane volume through my Sean Jacobs powered Dave and all I can say is that it doesn’t have that slight in your face hardness that the SMPS Dave can appear to have compared to the subtler sound of the ARC6 / DC4 Dave. (Just an additional note to say that I would never ever have described Dave that way unless I had heard the alternative DC4 Dave option).


----------



## kennyb123

Triode User said:


> But it doesn’t mean he is right that the smps in the Dave sounds best (hint, it doesn’t).
> 
> Also, his assumption is that an LPS powering the Dave will have a brighter sound due to additional noise that the LPS lets through (it doesn’t sound that way).


Rob Watts is guilty of making gross assumptions as well.  I find myself just as annoyed about the generalized comments people make as Mark Jenkins in his recent post on the Antipodes forum.  I think he was right to call this generalized thinking “stupid”.  It’s stupid to lump all linear supplies in a single bucket and declare them all inferior.  The same is true for switching mode supplies.  Implementation is what matters most.  

I get that the SMPS in the DAVE can be improved upon.  But we aren’t talking apples to apples when we add thousands of dollars to the price.  We aren’t really comparing an SMPS to a linear supply when we consider the DC4 ARC6 relative to DAVE’s stock supply.  We are considering one of the best implemented audiophile power supplies on the planet to one that wasn’t even designed for high end audio.


----------



## Progisus

Triode User said:


> I was listening to the track Rajaz (Camel) last night at some insane volume


Thanks for the tip. Not hifi but playing it through the blue tooth rock speaker waiting for the hot tub to fill. Finally outside.

I don’t doubt the Dave plays well with those beautiful lps. I just thought it interesting if it was Antipodes approach.

Fwiw I have been using squeeze for my pggb. Although I love the MPD sound, the high frequency squeal when pausing is too annoying. I was playing back pggb on my poly/mojo from the sdcard and got the same thing. 16fs and Chord? Or MPD?


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> Although I love the MPD sound, the high frequency squeal when pausing is too annoying. I was playing back pggb on my poly/mojo from the sdcard and got the same thing. 16fs and Chord? Or MPD?


I’ve never heard that with Poly/Mojo but I’m not sure I ever had my headphones on with playback paused.


----------



## Progisus

kennyb123 said:


> I’ve never heard that with Poly/Mojo but I’m not sure I ever had my headphones on with playback paused.


It’s a Poly/Mojo 2 and I was playing from sdcard using Blutooth and GoFigure from an internal playlist.

BTW, my K30 is working flawlessly. Glad I got that model while still available. 😝


----------



## Triode User

Progisus said:


> Thanks for the tip. Not hifi


That track sounds hi fi to me as well as being great prog rock.


----------



## FlikFlac

Progisus said:


> BTW, my K30 is working flawlessly.


What’s your preferred player/server combo?


----------



## Progisus

Triode User said:


> That track sounds hi fi to me as well as being great prog rock.


I meant not hifi through my blutooth speaker. You have me on a Camel kick.


----------



## Progisus

FlikFlac said:


> What’s your preferred player/server combo?


I use Roon/Hqplayer on the server to Hqplayer naa on the player.


----------



## FlikFlac

Progisus said:


> I use Roon/Hqplayer on the server to Hqplayer naa on the player.


I’m flicking between Roon/HQP and Roon/squeeze, I’m slightly leaning to HQP, but there are so many options to play with. What HQP settings do you use? Thanks


----------



## Progisus

FlikFlac said:


> I’m flicking between Roon/HQP and Roon/squeeze, I’m slightly leaning to HQP, but there are so many options to play with. What HQP settings do you use? Thanks


Because I play to an mscaler I use pcm, none, none, 768khz max and let the mscaler do it's thing. If playing to my TT(1) or RME I use pcm, poly-sinc guass long and poly-sinc guass hires lp lns15, 768k, adaptive output rate. I use Hqplayer to the mscaler as I prefer it slightly to the roon engine. Roon has been sounding better recently though. My problem with Roon/Squeeze is it's limit to 192k.


----------



## FlikFlac

Progisus said:


> Because I play to an mscaler I use pcm, none, none, 768khz max and let the mscaler do it's thing. If playing to my TT(1) or RME I use pcm, poly-sinc guass long and poly-sinc guass hires lp lns15, 768k, adaptive output rate. I use Hqplayer to the mscaler as I prefer it slightly to the roon engine. Roon has been sounding better recently though. My problem with Roon/Squeeze is it's limit to 192k.


Same here, playing into an Mscaler using none, none and leaning to it being my favourite. I also use Guass dither, do you think when using none, dither has any impact? It seems to for me, but I’m open to it being my imagination…


----------



## F208Frank

Holy heck, my wife walked into my room and asked me how much the "large box" from antipodes costed, I kept changing subject.

Random but just wanted to share, haha.


----------



## FlikFlac

F208Frank said:


> Holy heck, my wife walked into my room and asked me how much the "large box" from antipodes costed, I kept changing subject.
> 
> Random but just wanted to share, haha.


This is something we should all prepare for…


----------



## Ciggavelli

F208Frank said:


> Holy heck, my wife walked into my room and asked me how much the "large box" from antipodes costed, I kept changing subject.
> 
> Random but just wanted to share, haha.




I’m not married, but that’s gotta be a tough situation. My response would be, “A good amount, but I got it at a discount,” but there’s only so long that will last. For a non-audiophile (and a lot of audiophiles even), saying you spent $15K on a computer that just plays music is insane


----------



## Whazzzup

Ciggavelli said:


> I’m not married, but that’s gotta be a tough situation. My response would be, “A good amount, but I got it at a discount,” but there’s only so long that will last. For a non-audiophile (and a lot of audiophiles even), saying you spent $15K on a computer that just plays music is insane


Agree the discount helps, I have used it for reel, a few times. Of course liking what I chose and not shuffling up kept purchase frequency so low, also helps with my partner. 
now quality dedicated servers are in the 12-25 g area which may be out of someone’s price point, but they do make a difference.


----------



## andrewd01

F208Frank said:


> Holy heck, my wife walked into my room and asked me how much the "large box" from antipodes costed, I kept changing subject.
> 
> Random but just wanted to share, haha.



Start buying magazines about boats and motorcycles and leave them around the house. She will soon realise hifi is cheap by comparison, and safer


----------



## F208Frank (May 19, 2022)

andrewd01 said:


> Start buying magazines about boats and motorcycles and leave them around the house. She will soon realise hifi is cheap by comparison, and safer


I agree. I always had this thought process that though hifi isnt cheap, its not crazy end spectrum of boat/mansion/mount everest climbing type expensive.

Regarding bike magazines, that would not work because I recently bought a streetfighter v4s and sold at a loss due to new born. It was my 8th bike and my first brand new one too, so yeah took a blood bath loss on that one....

Gave up riding for good and got back into the hifi hobby now that you mentioned it. We all need at least one hobby to unwind imo. Back in the days, my mentality was just work work work and it was effing miserable.


----------



## Whazzzup

I never trusted myself to ride, fly, parachute, climb... sailing, golf, audio seemed more appealing. now skiing, horseback riding, water skiing are out. Im active but im one knee twist from being paralyzed in my mind.


----------



## bobmysterious

Hi y'all!  Question time!
So I just updated my S40 to 3.13 this afternoon.  The update said it completed and asked me to reboot, which I did.  When restarting Roon it can't find my core.  If I open up the finder the core is connected to the network and I can even play files.  Whenever I update the server something like this always happens, so I'm not surprised that it's being difficult this time as well.  Any ideas on things I might be able to try?


----------



## kennyb123

bobmysterious said:


> Hi y'all!  Question time!
> So I just updated my S40 to 3.13 this afternoon.  The update said it completed and asked me to reboot, which I did.  When restarting Roon it can't find my core.  If I open up the finder the core is connected to the network and I can even play files.  Whenever I update the server something like this always happens, so I'm not surprised that it's being difficult this time as well.  Any ideas on things I might be able to try?



The Core that’s running has been reverted to default.  You’ll need to connect to it as a new Core, then restore  your last Roon backup.  Do this before inputting your user name and password.  There’s a restore option at the bottom.


----------



## bobmysterious

I can't even get to that option.  I'm stuck here:


----------



## kennyb123

bobmysterious said:


> I can't even get to that option.  I'm stuck here:


Is Roon enabled on the Server dashboard on your S40?  If so, try restarting it.


----------



## bobmysterious

Tried that one.  Tried clearing the Roon cache as well.  No luck.  Should I try and reinstall Roon Server on the S40?


----------



## kennyb123

bobmysterious said:


> Tried that one.  Tried clearing the Roon cache as well.  No luck.  Should I try and reinstall Roon Server on the S40?


I would request support from Antipodes.  

https://antipodes.audio/appointment/


----------



## bobmysterious

Booked a session for tomorrow night at 7.  Thanks for the help, I'll keep y'all updated.


----------



## worknprogress

Just in case, also make sure Squeeze is not enabled on Server Dashboard.


----------



## bobmysterious

It was, so I disabled it.  Still having the same problem.  Thanks for the suggestion though.


----------



## worknprogress

You may wish to restart Roon now from the Server Dashboard now that you have disabled Squeeze there.


----------



## bobmysterious

Tried restarting.  Tried reinstalling the server.  Still the same results.  It's so weird, I see it on my network, and can play the files in the Flac folder by selecting them and hitting the spacebar.  Remote on my laptop, however, just can't find the core.  I've deleted and reinstalled the remote as well.


----------



## worknprogress

Have you tried shutting down your Antipodes and then restarting it?   Hopefully your scheduled session tomorrow with Antipodes will resolve all this for you.


----------



## kennyb123

bobmysterious said:


> It was, so I disabled it. Still having the same problem


My guess is that the upgrade process wasn’t able to pull down a necessary package.  Antipodes will straighten this out.


----------



## bobmysterious

I'm banking on it, hahaha!


----------



## Progisus

bobmysterious said:


> Booked a session for tomorrow night at 7.  Thanks for the help, I'll keep y'all updated.


Marc is at High End Munich. You could try a roon reinstall and then a reboot. Frustrating.


----------



## bobmysterious

Tried that one already too.  You're right, it is kinda frustrating.  I trust them though, they're solid people and will get it squared away.


----------



## 12grayclouds

bobmysterious said:


> Tried that one already too.  You're right, it is kinda frustrating.  I trust them though, they're solid people and will get it squared away.


Have you exited out of all your Roon remotes and software first?

https://antipodes.support/t/roon-core-not-start/685


----------



## bobmysterious

Yessir, tried that one too.


----------



## barbz127

Has anyone compared the s20/s60 combo to the Mutec MC3+ or the Phoenix Usb at all?

Will be feeding a Holo dac and curious to know how the reclockers change can the presentation of the May.

Thankyou


----------



## bobmysterious

Matt at Antipodes saved the day!  He had to fight with it a little bit, the unit was being kind of bitchy when he was reinstalling things.  Had to go into my terminal and do some stuff too.  Took about 45 minutes, however I'm back to listening to music... Glorious music!  Thanks for all the help and suggestions y'all!


----------



## atya35mm

hi all, just dropping in as have put up my antipodes combo for sale: K30 / S20 / S60. So if you're keen on antipodes units check them out.


----------



## Ciggavelli

So, my k50 has been crashing randomly again. I had a session with antipdoes yesterday and they think it might be related to my ethernet switch.  They said, "audiophile" (they used quotation marks) switches make the k50 act up in strange ways.  I don't know if I am fully on board with that, but it is what they claim.  I'd just take it out and call it a day, but I think things sound better with the ether regen (I'm assuming the same with the Innuos Phoenix NET).  Antipodes didn't outright say this, but I get the impression that they don't particularly think highly of the use of ethernet switches on their devices.  I don't know why an ethernet switch would cause my K50 to act up, but admittedly, I am no electrical engineer.


----------



## F208Frank

Ciggavelli said:


> So, my k50 has been crashing randomly again. I had a session with antipdoes yesterday and they think it might be related to my ethernet switch.  They said, "audiophile" (they used quotation marks) switches make the k50 act up in strange ways.  I don't know if I am fully on board with that, but it is what they claim.  I'd just take it out and call it a day, but I think things sound better with the ether regen (I'm assuming the same with the Innuos Phoenix NET).  Antipodes didn't outright say this, but I get the impression that they don't particularly think highly of the use of ethernet switches on their devices.  I don't know why an ethernet switch would cause my K50 to act up, but admittedly, I am no electrical engineer.


I have mentioned earlier on in this same thread about a user mentioning they had similar issues regarding ethernet switches and their K50, so far this has not been an issue with me and I truly hope I can keep my switch in the chain. 

Please update us with what ends up happening to your switch...

Good luck!


----------



## worknprogress

This has not been an issue for me with my switch (modified Buffalo switch, PF Buffalo) either.   I also have my video ethernet routed through this switch.  I am in the U.S. and do experience 2 momentary  connection alerts shown on the video when first connecting though.   I use a Firestick.  I also can experience buffering with HULU but not on any of the other streaming video services I have.  I have sufficient download bandwidth, so this should not be an issue.  I suppose it is possible my switch may be related to this, but, again, has not been an issue for my music audio.


----------



## kennyb123

Ciggavelli said:


> I don't know why an ethernet switch would cause my K50 to act up, but admittedly, I am no electrical engineer.



Isolation can sometimes cause some strange things to happen.  I’ve seen that mostly on the USB side of things where an ISO Regen would occasionally make things flaky due to a static charge forming due to the ground being isolated.  I have never heard of that occurring with the ER though.  One thing you might want to try is connecting everything to the A side so the moat is bypassed.  This will lose a bit of the sound quality benefits but it’ll at least help with troubleshooting.

I think maybe their reluctance with switches is that many are simply tweaked consumer switches.  Whether the tweaks result in a device that meets spec isn’t a certainty.


----------



## 12grayclouds

Also the Antipodes is a 2 computer device, it may not be the switch at issue, rather the router and the quality there-of.


----------



## atya35mm

I've been using the k30 with Innuos PhoenixNET for the past few months with no issues. Just my experience.


----------



## F208Frank

Just got my May Holo and using Phoneixnet with the k50 no issues.

Thank the lord, I was little worried but at same time I feel if it can happen to you, it can happen to me any time in the future.


----------



## Uncle Monty

A few weeks ago, I lost ROON after updating CX/EX Oladra. ROON just wouldn't 'see' THE Core. Tried rebooting and restarting etc to no avail.  Arranged a remote session but it wasn't needed as everything started working the next day - don't know why but it did, and it's been perfect ever since. I've always regarded electricity as witchcraft and this latest episode has done nothing to change that.


----------



## richardloh

shsoh said:


> Turns out that listening to the CX / EX via Squeeze will occasionally lead to a split second disruption during music playback. This can happen randomly for DSD64 and DSD128 tracks. I have not tried on full length albums in other formats yet. I have none of these problems when I use my SOtM SMS 200 streamer before the EX. Does anyone have similar experience?


My 2+ yrs ones does not thru all the SW and oladra upgrade playing from ssd in cx and streaming else Antipodes would hv heard of it for reaolution.

Time to seek help from Antipodes but being random will be tough to pinpoint cause(s) which can be many reason in the audio chain  ? 

Good luck and cheers.


----------



## 1laraz

It is so strange thet the newest Antipodes Oladra loaded with 64GB of RAM can handle only PCM to 768kHz over USB or 384kHz over I2S. There are DACs nowdays supporting PCM up to 1 536 kHz


----------



## kennyb123

1laraz said:


> can handle only PCM to 768kHz over USB or 384kHz over I2S


I had asked about that on their forum a while back as the K50 also has that limitation.  I didn't get a response.  I suspect it's a matter of not having these DACs on hand to confirm that higher PCM rates will work in a stable fashion.


----------



## 1laraz

kennyb123 said:


> as the K50 also has that limitation


Does that mean that K50 actually is able to output PCM 1 536 kHz?


----------



## 12grayclouds

Is more MHz better


----------



## kennyb123

1laraz said:


> Does that mean that K50 actually is able to output PCM 1 536 kHz?


The specs say no but I it would be great if someone was able try it.


----------



## kennyb123

12grayclouds said:


> Is more MHz better


We are talking about PCM sample rate so it really depends on how the music is being scaled to these higher frequencies.


----------



## atya35mm

kennyb123 said:


> The specs say no but I it would be great if someone was able try it.


I had the Holo May for a week and was upsampling to 1.5mhz using hqp through antipodes k30 so I’m sure k50 can do the same as well. 

It sounds fantastic to my ears 1.5mhz vs 768khz.


----------



## kennyb123

atya35mm said:


> using hqp through antipodes k30 so I’m sure k50 can do the same as well


I think the question was about I2S, which the K30 doesn't support.


----------



## RKClem

Hi, Apologies if this has already been covered.  When trialing HQPlayer with Roon, before the end of the 30min trial license cut off, Roon often stops playing music and reports it has lost control of the player.  I'm running AMSv3.13. on a CX/EX combo. Anyone experienced/solved this issue?  I like the sound but won't pay for a license until I'm confident this won't continue to happen.  Cheers


----------



## kennyb123

RKClem said:


> Hi, Apologies if this has already been covered.  When trialing HQPlayer with Roon, before the end of the 30min trial license cut off, Roon often stops playing music and reports it has lost control of the player.  I'm running AMSv3.13. on a CX/EX combo. Anyone experienced/solved this issue?  I like the sound but won't pay for a license until I'm confident this won't continue to happen.  Cheers


Yeah the license makes that problem mostly go away.  A bug was introduced that makes the issue occasionally show up after changing HQPlayer settings.  Restarting HQPlayer gets it unstuck. A fix for that is coming.


----------



## RKClem

kennyb123 said:


> Yeah the license makes that problem mostly go away.  A bug was introduced that makes the issue occasionally show up after changing HQPlayer settings.  Restarting HQPlayer gets it unstuck. A fix for that is coming.


Great thanks.  How do you apply the fix or is that something Antipodes needs to push out?

On another topic, have people who have had the Oladra upgrade noticed any burn in changes?

Cheers


----------



## Whazzzup

Concerning oladra upgrade, yup it gets better with age.


----------



## kennyb123

RKClem said:


> Great thanks.  How do you apply the fix or is that something Antipodes needs to push out?



We’re waiting for them to push it out.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Hi everyone, I am looking for an Antipodes S30 in good/excellent condition. Please PM me if you have one for sale.


----------



## magliner0316 (Jun 17, 2022)

Hello guys~
Got a question when using Roon/Squeezelite with oladra CX+EX combo.
What is the max dsd you can get on squeeze player?  I can only get up to DSD64.  Anything higher will cause roon to downsample to DSD64.
However, even though Roon says max PCM is 192kHz, I can play up to 384kHz without any issue.

When I use Roon/Roon player setup, there is no issue for me to play up to DSD256.

Just want to see if this normal when using a squeeze player on EX?

Thanks


----------



## kennyb123

magliner0316 said:


> Got a question when using Roon/Squeezelite with oladra CX+EX combo.
> What is the max dsd you can get on squeeze player? I can only get up to DSD64.


That's the max that Roon allows with Squeeze.


----------



## magliner0316

kennyb123 said:


> That's the max that Roon allows with Squeeze.


Thanks for the reply~


----------



## thunder 99

Hi guys Im just contemplating a K50 and was wondering if it would be possible to use Roon (&Tidal) Core+DSP with HQplayer to upsample into DSD256 which is then passed to the DAC (Have a DAVE). Would the K50 be able to handle this processing without any issues? Is there anyone that does it already? Many thanks in advance.


----------



## kennyb123

thunder 99 said:


> Hi guys Im just contemplating a K50 and was wondering if it would be possible to use Roon (&Tidal) Core+DSP with HQplayer to upsample into DSD256 which is then passed to the DAC (Have a DAVE). Would the K50 be able to handle this processing without any issues? Is there anyone that does it already? Many thanks in advance.



See my response on WBF.  I just wanted to ask - why DSD256?


----------



## thunder 99

kennyb123 said:


> See my response on WBF.  I just wanted to ask - why DSD256?


Can you please link me so I can have a read?
I find DAVE sounds very smooth and the digital harshness is much reduced via HQplayer


----------



## kennyb123

thunder 99 said:


> Can you please link me so I can have a read?
> I find DAVE sounds very smooth and the digital harshness is much reduced via HQplayer


What are you using for a server now?  If you were to get a K50, I suspect much of the harshness would go away.  

The Chord designer, Rob Watts, isn’t a fan of DSD.  He thinks it softens the music and robs it of transient information that can never be reconstructed.  What makes his DACs so wonderful is what he does with PCM.  So while the DAVE supports DSD, the real magic comes with PCM.

HQPlayer can lower noise, but the DAVE itself has a tremendously low noise floor.  If you hear harshness its not going to be the DAVE’s fault.  

The K50 will be a great match for the DAVE.  Don’t worry so much as to whether you can use HQPlayer to scale to DSD256.  Once the K50 lands you will find a strong preference for feeding your DAVE only PCM.


----------



## thunder 99

kennyb123 said:


> What are you using for a server now?  If you were to get a K50, I suspect much of the harshness would go away.
> 
> The Chord designer, Rob Watts, isn’t a fan of DSD.  He thinks it softens the music and robs it of transient information that can never be reconstructed.  What makes his DACs so wonderful is what he does with PCM.  So while the DAVE supports DSD, the real magic comes with PCM.
> 
> ...


 I see, I am using a DX3 now. So in that case would the K50 have enough grunt to use both Roon Core and its DSP with HQplayer upsampled to PCM


----------



## kennyb123

thunder 99 said:


> So in that case would the K50 have enough grunt to use both Roon Core and its DSP with HQplayer upsampled to PCM


More than enough for Roon with HQPlayer upsampling to PCM.  I do this now with the less powerful K30.

As far as Roon and its DSP, that should be disabled.  Better to have HQPlayer become the DSP engine for Roon.


----------



## andrewd01

PCM upscaling doesn’t require much compute power.  Even the EX which is designed as a player can comfortably manage as a Roon core with HQ Player PCM upscaling and not break a sweat (around 7% CPU load).


----------



## yoktjah

I miss my CX/EX combo. Antipodes is great stuff. Anyone getting the new Oladra flagship?


----------



## RKClem

I like to keep up with the alternative gear out there just because I'm interested rather than considering investing.  The Grimm Audio MU1 server is interesting to me because they seem to have achieved excellent SQ from a Roon core and roon endpoint configuration.  I assume it is just just standard Roon software? Excellent SQ is not something I have achieved with my CX/EX with Roon server/Roon player.  I wonder what the Grimm Audio MU1 server is doing to achieve this and can it be applied to my set up?


----------



## kennyb123

RKClem said:


> The Grimm Audio MU1 server is interesting to me because they seem to have achieved excellent SQ from a Roon core and roon endpoint configuration. I assume it is just just standard Roon software?


That box only runs Roon.  If it allowed Squeeze, for example, I wonder if owners would still think that Roon sounds "excellent".  It's all relative so I wonder where they are coming from.  

Antipodes uses a two-tier model of Player and Server so I would think this would have an advantage over a single box running Roon.  When I got my K30, I thought Roon was "excellent" as it was a huge step up from running Roon on an Innuos Zenith Mk3.  I could not live with Roon on the Zenith but I think I could almost live with it on my K30.  

The one server that is most certainly doing something special with Roon is Wadax.  But what they've shown is that it takes a significant investment of dollars to make Roon sound spectacular.


----------



## Progisus

Even roon suggests running the core and player on separate computers. This was one of the reasons I upgraded from the single EX to the K30. I personally am a big fan of roon over squeeze. Squeeze may sound different to some (better?) but for overall music curation, discovery and playback nothing beats roon. For best playback, MPD with direct play does it for me. We impatiently await this in the next Antipodes software update.


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> but for overall music curation, discovery and playback nothing beats roon.



Nothing even comes close.


----------



## Triode User

Progisus said:


> Even roon suggests running the core and player on separate computers. This was one of the reasons I upgraded from the single EX to the K30. I personally am a big fan of roon over squeeze. Squeeze may sound different to some (better?) but for overall music curation, discovery and playback nothing beats roon. For best playback, MPD with direct play does it for me. We impatiently await this in the next Antipodes software update.


No, Squeeze does not sound different to Roon, it sounds better. Much better. But I can see why people put up with Roon for the sake of its interface.

But for me it is similar to watching the telly. When I want to watch a programme I select it and watch it. I do not need all the unasked for suggestions about what other programmes I might like to watch.

I paid a lot of money for my lifetime Roon subscription but I am happy to keep it in the cupboard for now.

I keenly await the implementation of MPD which you have because if it is better then Squeeze then it will be truly stunning.


----------



## coldbru

andrewd01 said:


> I have the CX/EX and am also tight for space.  Mine have the original power supplies and I never notice them getting particularly warm.  I think you could stack EX on CX without any problems, but I would probably choose to stack the phono preamp instead.   I have my TT2 DAC on my EX and have no problems with either component getting excessively warm.  The Chord DAC is designed to be stacked with other TT sized components.  I have also seen Antipodes marketing shots with CX and EX stacked.


The direction I got from Antipodes was — IF you stack — put the CX on top as it runs hotter.  But if you are doing any upsampling you don’t want anything near the CX, ideally add some feet and give it good air flow.


----------



## Progisus

Triode User said:


> No, Squeeze does not sound different to Roon, it sounds better. Much better. But I can see why people put up with Roon for the sake of its interface.
> 
> But for me it is similar to watching the telly. When I want to watch a programme I select it and watch it. I do not need all the unasked for suggestions about what other programmes I might like to watch.
> 
> ...


haha, I enjoy our back and forth. A table and a couple beers would make it even better.

Now… has anyone proven mconnect doesn’t pass the stream through the app?  Roon does as well.


----------



## Triode User

Progisus said:


> haha, I enjoy our back and forth. A table and a couple beers would make it even better.
> 
> Now… has anyone proven mconnect doesn’t pass the stream through the app?  Roon does as well.


Yeah, if only you lived closer and without a pond in between ! I have a few guys in villages near us and we have good banter and comparing our systems.


----------



## kennyb123

Triode User said:


> Yeah, if only you lived closer and without a pond in between ! I have a few guys in villages near us and we have good banter and comparing our systems.


+1 on that

I think @Progisus may be only a few hours away from me.


----------



## kennyb123

Triode User said:


> No, Squeeze does not sound different to Roon, it sounds better. Much better.


Even much more so if one has upgraded to audiophile fuses.

Hahaha


----------



## Progisus

kennyb123 said:


> Even much more so if one has upgraded to audiophile fuses.
> 
> Hahaha


Especially if they are only tywrapped to the wires. Gotta love this hobby. We are pretty close by North American standards. Winterpeg.


----------



## coldbru

.. Has anyone compared the Grimm MU1 to the K50? the Oladra?


----------



## Whazzzup

Mmmm oladra, that thing looks slick.


----------



## coldbru

..anyone heard the upgraded EX compared to the S20/S30? Which would you expect to sound better?


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Jul 22, 2022)

Hi everyone,

I have recently added an S30 to my current system of S40+S60. I primarily use Roon to control HQplayer. That was pretty straightforward with S40 alone, but it gets confusing for me after adding the S30. As I understand it, the S40 should be the server, and the S30 should be the player, but where/how should I set up the HQplayer?

Currently, I choose the "Roon Player Special Option - HQplayer" on the S30 player dashboard, and this seems to get things going. But since the HQplayer is "set up" on the S30 dashboard, does this mean that it is actually the S30 performing those upsampling/DSP functions instead of the S40?

Thanks so much in advance!!

Edit: I may have found the “right way”. I set S30 as “HQplayer” in the player dashboard. Set S40 as both Roon and HQplayer in the server dashboard, and then configure the HQplayer there. The key seems to be setting the backend there as “Network Audio” and then choose S30: (dac name) as the Nerwork Audio backend device. This seems to allow S40 to push the processed/upsampled signals to S30.


----------



## kennyb123

bluestorm1992 said:


> Edit: I may have found the “right way”. I set S30 as “HQplayer” in the player dashboard. Set S40 as both Roon and HQplayer in the server dashboard, and then configure the HQplayer there. The key seems to be setting the backend there as “Network Audio” and then choose S30: (dac name) as the Nerwork Audio backend device. This seems to allow S40 to push the processed/upsampled signals to S30.


That’s the right way to do it,  

Once every has settled in, let us know what improvements you hear from adding the S30.


----------



## Progisus

bluestorm1992 said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I have recently added an S30 to my current system of S40+S60. I primarily use Roon to control HQplayer. That was pretty straightforward with S40 alone, but it gets confusing for me after adding the S30. As I understand it, the S40 should be the server, and the S30 should be the player, but where/how should I set up the HQplayer?
> 
> ...


Exactly as I replied over at Antipodes. Glad you got it working.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Thank you both SO much!!


----------



## andrewd01

Has anyone tried converting to DSD using HQ Player?  I am thinking of trying this while connecting my EX directly to my Devialet D200 which supports DSD64.

If so, what are the recommended filter settings to use in HQ Player?  In particular I am interested in settings that give a similar result to SincL with LNS15 noise shaper in PCM upscaling sent to a Chord DAC.


----------



## richardloh (Aug 9, 2022)

Hi All, Had been using oyaide continental 5s usb cable from oladra cx and ex stack but finally bit the bullet and bought a used shuntaya sigma usb which is still by far the most expensive among various oyaide, furutech and the zonotone shupreme that I still have.

Was initially disappointed with dull presentation especially when reviews mentioned that the shunyata sigma usb sounded great immediately when plugged in and improves insignificantly over weeks. Fortunately, it only took 1 day of constant use in my 24/7 operational system to sound smooth and musical but yet detailed and wide sounding.  Still, at 1/10 the $, the oyaide continental 5s is a true bargain only lacking in comparison on smoothness and some musicality .. highly recommended !

Now to the main topic to share on both good and bad news .. was thinking using such an expensive cable, I removed the old version of ifi idefender used with the oyaide but it became again dull and recessed ... in fact more so than when using the oyaide 🥺

The bad news is that since ifi defender claim to improve on noise from ground loop, I can only infer that the Antipodes are not great in this aspect. The good news is that a cheap usd50 ifi defender can obviously improve an even oladra upgraded (usd4k) cx/ex stack and arguably more than a very expensive shunyata sigma usb cable 😂

In the end, I just ordered the new idefender+ with reportedly some improvement .. no brainer next move imho.

In conclusion, do try the ifi idefender or plus version if in your drawer and you may also be pleasantly surprised. If you dun have one, please do try it and share your finding here .. nothing to lose really for a mere usd50 in this crazy hobby.

Cheers.

https://ifi-audio.com/products/idefender-plus/


----------



## Whazzzup

Oyaide 5s continental and audio quest Diamond both sound good. I’m hesitant to put any 50$ jitterbug esk like thing between my antipodes and my dac, but let us know, good luck.


----------



## richardloh

Whazzzup said:


> Oyaide 5s continental and audio quest Diamond both sound good. I’m hesitant to put any 50$ jitterbug esk like thing between my antipodes and my dac, but let us know, good luck.


Hi Whazzzup, Sorry for not being clear .. I already have the older version of the ifi idefender and it improves both the oyaide 5s and 10x $ shuntaya sigma between the Antipode cx/ex and upgraded DE version of Denafrip Terminator Plus .. hence this sharing and recommendation as well as mentioned bad news that Antipodes is not handling ground loop hum better than this ifi idefender.

Order is for the newer version of ifi idefender+ for expected further improvement for usd50.

Cheers.


----------



## 12grayclouds (Aug 11, 2022)

So galvanically isolating a makes a difference weird


----------



## Triode User

12grayclouds said:


> So galvanically isolating a galvanically isolated USB makes a difference, weird.


From my experiences, galvanic isolation is not 100% effective but rather it mitigates the problem as opposed to removing it.


----------



## Whazzzup

where do these ground loops come from? I don't have any..... my TT is galvanically isolated. but glad folks finding solutions.....


----------



## richardloh (Aug 9, 2022)

Usd50 to sound better in my system and probably to find out in others' systems with perhaps some unknown same issue sounds like a winner ? 😅


----------



## kennyb123

Triode User said:


> From my experiences, galvanic isolation is not 100% effective but rather it mitigates the problem as opposed to removing it.


This has been my experience too.  One has to be careful to not think that perfection can easily be achieved in the real world.  Just because a manufacturer claims that their DAC's input is galvanically isolated, doesn't mean that the manufacturer's implementation perfectly isolates.


----------



## Progisus

The utility power quality and grounding on some non north American power systems can be suspect.


----------



## richardloh

Nice .. just barely 24 hrs of continued streaming with the new and newer version of idefender+ and it is the best usd50 par none in this unpredictable no end road 😃🍾

Improvement can best described by ifi .. just more obvious improvement to already notable older version idefender 3.0 🥳🥳

Who knows ..maybe the super expensive (to me) Shunyata Sigma usb cable at usd2000 has some differences in handling grounding issue of Antipodes compared to Oyaide 5s that idefender and idefender+ alleviated ? 🤔🤷‍♂️

Enjoy !


----------



## richardloh (Aug 11, 2022)

Progisus said:


> The utility power quality and grounding on some non north American power systems can be suspect.


Indeed but it is not reasonable to expect mega bucks Antipodes to have whatever solution that a usd50 idefender fixes ?

I believe my expectation is not unreasonable.

Cheers.


----------



## richardloh

kennyb123 said:


> This has been my experience too.  One has to be careful to not think that perfection can easily be achieved in the real world.  Just because a manufacturer claims that their DAC's input is galvanically isolated, doesn't mean that the manufacturer's implementation perfectly isolates.


Hi Kenny, believe you are in Singapore .. please pm me your mailing address for me to mail you 1 of the 2 older idefender to try out in your Antipodes and if it does shows improvement, do consider getting the idefender+.

if it does not improve your system, kindly pass it to any of your kakis with lesser system that may improves with it.

Feeling generous cos happy with the outcome but more importantly, I hope other find same improvement for so little $ which is rare in this crazy hobby .. usd2000 for a usb cable 🤦‍♂️

Cheers.


----------



## kennyb123

richardloh said:


> Hi Kenny, believe you are in Singapore .. please pm me your mailing address for me to mail you 1 of the 2 older idefender to try out in your Antipodes and if it does shows improvement, do consider getting the idefender+.


I appreciate the offer, but I'm in the US so it would be easier for you to pass it on to someone in Singapore.  


richardloh said:


> Who knows ..maybe the super expensive (to me) Shunyata Sigma usb cable at usd2000 has some differences in handling grounding issue of Antipodes compared to Oyaide 5s that idefender and idefender+ alleviated ?


I'm not understanding what you are saying here.  Were you hearing a buzz, hum or hiss with both cables when not using the Defender?  Was the problem worse for one cable than the other?


----------



## richardloh

kennyb123 said:


> I appreciate the offer, but I'm in the US so it would be easier for you to pass it on to someone in Singapore.
> 
> I'm not understanding what you are saying here.  Were you hearing a buzz, hum or hiss with both cables when not using the Defender?  Was the problem worse for one cable than the other?


Aaah .. tot u r in Singapore 🙏 But no matter and glad to mail it to you.

No buzz, hum or hiss ...at least not audible ones at listening seat .. just that SQ improves as ifi described and shared.

Cheers.


----------



## shsoh

You can pass them to me!  Please message me to arrange collection.


----------



## richardloh (Aug 12, 2022)

shsoh said:


> You can pass them to me!  Please message me to arrange collection.


Aaah .. in singapore and this is great.

Do kindly share your finding .. positive or otherwise in your system.

Cheers.

PS: Will PMed* you my address and mobile


----------



## Whazzzup

i got no hum, buzz, or hiss. Must be the power itself


----------



## Wolfen13 (Aug 12, 2022)

richardloh said:


> Indeed but it is not reasonable to expect mega bucks Antipodes to have whatever solution that a usd50 idefender fixes ?
> 
> I believe my expectation is not unreasonable.
> 
> Cheers.


I have found and demonstrated the following ( pause Music and listen near speaker ) :
1) Using Antipodes S40 with S60 power supply : one hears a definite electronic interference noise from the speaker ( almost sounds like you are hearing a faint cpu processing noise ).
2) Same setup but replace S40 & S60 with Innuos MK II Mini and latest Innuos MK III LPS : electronic interference noise is no longer there
3) Take S40 and power it with Innuos MK III LPS : electronic noise is no longer there ( you can do this as the S40 is just a Jetway board and will accept 9-24v )
4) Same setup as in 1 above but use an Intona USB isolator between the S40 and the DAC : noise is also eliminated

So from the above I have assumed the source of the noise is the S60 power supply and due to the fact that Antipodes don't seem to do anything special on the USB outputs ( as far as I know - could be wrong ), the noise is carried over the USB to the DAC.

There is a post on the Antipodes forum where an Antipodes user has commented about experiencing noise on his S30 ( 'USB Buzz from S30 to Rockna Wavelight DAC' )


----------



## richardloh

Wolfen13 said:


> I have found the demonstrated the following ( pause Music and listen near speaker ) :
> 1) Using Antipodes S40 with S60 power supply : one hears a definite electronic interference noise from the speaker ( almost sounds like you are hearing a faint cpu processing noise ).
> 2) Same setup but replace S40 & S60 with Innuos MK II Mini and latest Innuos MK III LPS : electronic interference noise is no longer there
> 3) Take S40 and power it with Innuos MK III LPS : electronic noise is no longer there ( you can do this as the S40 is just a Jetway board and will accept 9-24v )
> ...


Hi,

Noted and tks ..

Not hiss, hum or any noise that I can tell with and without idefender .. it just as ifi mentioned:

"better dynamic contrast, warmth and resolution"

Cheers.


----------



## richardloh

kennyb123 said:


> The SOtM CAT7 easily justified its price based on how much more organic music sounded with it in place.  Music became more dimensional as well.  I was planning to purchase one but I had the opportunity to purchase a used Shunyata Sigma at a great price.  This worked out better than expected because the Sigma really began to really shine when I moved to a Shunyata Sigma USB cable.  Shunyata‘s digital cables are extremely quiet and free from noise and grain.  Images and tones gain density as well, which is my favorite part.  I think they match up well with Antipodes as they aim to bring out the same benefits.


Hey Kenny, Just acquired a used Shunyata Sigms usb cable to commensurate expenses on my Oladra upgraded EX and CX with a host of Uptone ERs, oxco clock, Accoustic revive tripleC lan cables etc. as the replacement for an Oyaide Continental 5S that I prefers over Zonotone Shupreme, Furutech etc. But I nearly sold it off and glad I did not .. 

Contrary to some reviews I read that said the Shunyata Sigma sounded great straight out of box with marginal improvement over weeks and month, it only blossomed many times over the Oyaide with at least overnight continued playing .. it made a obvious improvement as you had described. Put it aside and the whole process of continued play is again required.

Now looking out for an used Shunyata Sigma RJ45 cable for i2s output of my Denafrips Avatar transport clock synced to the Denafrip Terminator Plus DE to replace the Antipodes stock for perhaps fair comparison between the 10x Antipodes setup vs the Avatar ..  basically now indistinguishable with music files and cd where the files were ripped from .. but with all the convenience of a music server especially streaming of very nice Qob.z hires music and other free internet radio stations.

Cheers.


----------



## richardloh

Good read on use of ddc and clocks through all stages of streaming 🥳  

https://antipodes.audio/solution-architecture/


----------



## Clive101 (Aug 17, 2022)

Yep just ordered one of these
https://www.adark.co/collections/de...udiophile-network-hubs?variant=39614852431990
Power supply to follow......


----------



## kennyb123 (Aug 17, 2022)

richardloh said:


> Contrary to some reviews I read that said the Shunyata Sigma sounded great straight out of box with marginal improvement over weeks and month, it only blossomed many times over the Oyaide with at least overnight continued playing .. it made a obvious improvement as you had described. Put it aside and the whole process of continued play is again required.


I'm really glad it worked out for you. 



richardloh said:


> Now looking out for an used Shunyata Sigma RJ45 cable for i2s output of


Such a cable does not exist.  Shunyata seems to be staying away from I2S.

(Correction:  theIr ethernet cable can serve this purpose apparently).


----------



## barbz127

I can confirm their alpha Ethernet cablest work as rj45 i2s between aqua products


----------



## kennyb123

barbz127 said:


> I can confirm their alpha Ethernet cablest work as rj45 i2s between aqua products



Silly me.  I didn’t imagine an ethernet cable being used as anything but an ethernet cable.  My bad.


----------



## richardloh (Aug 18, 2022)

kennyb123 said:


> Silly me.  I didn’t imagine an ethernet cable being used as anything but an ethernet cable.  My bad.


Hi Kenny,

No worry ...  I bought into Denafrips with absolutely no regret and now having the Avatar transport, Hermes/Gaia ddc and Terminator Plus+ with a barrage of RJ45 i2s connectivity in addition to the usual hmdi i2s as seen in enclosed photos.

In addition, all these i2s connections in my setup are without clocking since suitable Denafrips products setup allows the preferred usage of having all synced to a single oxco clock (there are 2 for 44.1 & 48khz) via separate BNC connection/cabling in my Terminator dac mm away from its FGPA electronics.

Loads of i2s and usually uber expensive master clocking to dac are what I love about Denafrips approach to sound quality.

Cheers.


----------



## Triode User

Has anyone heard an Oladra yet at a show or dealer?


----------



## Clive101

Triode User said:


> Has anyone heard an Oladra yet at a show or dealer?


Not yet .....mine is scheduled early October.
Elite had a demo but in shop only.
Looks like all the reviews are being held back untill fully released.


----------



## richardloh

shsoh said:


> You can pass them to me!  Please message me to arrange collection.


Hey shsoh,

Nice to meet you finally !

Hope your audition with even the older version of idefender turns out positive with Antipodes usb output to dac as I did and using it for the last 2 yrs.

Do note that new version of idefender+ at usd50 from local ifi distros will gives even darker background and music "pops" even more which I feel best describe any obvious and significant improvement in any tweaking ... without any demerit to my ears in my system.

Await your sharing and hope this finding benefits more Antipodes users .. 

Cheers.


----------



## richardloh (Aug 24, 2022)

kennyb123 said:


> Silly me.  I didn’t imagine an ethernet cable being used as anything but an ethernet cable.  My bad.


Hi Kenny,

Did not find any used Shunyata Sigma rj45 for i2s from cdp to dac and struck me that I should use something similar to existing hdmi i2s from ddc to dac of Tubulus Argentus instead .... do not believe Shunyata sigma rj45 cable was developed or voiced specifically for i2s.

https://www.tubulus.net/product-category/i2s-cables/

Decided to upgrade to Tubulus Concentus and will be receiving them in both hdmi i2s and rj45 i2s in about 3-4 weeks instead for a more competitive pricing than usual Shunyata products.

Cheers.


----------



## kennyb123

richardloh said:


> Decided to upgrade to Tubulus Concentus and will be receiving them in both hdmi i2s and rj45 i2s in about 3-4 weeks instead for a more competitive pricing than usual Shunyata products.


I’ve heard good things about the Tubulus I2S cables.  Let us know what you think.


----------



## crazylarry72

Hello. If anyone is interested in the CX and EX with OLADRA upgrades, I am selling mine https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/155140398293

Cheers, Matt


----------



## Triode User

crazylarry72 said:


> Hello. If anyone is interested in the CX and EX with OLADRA upgrades, I am selling mine https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/155140398293
> 
> Cheers, Matt


Hi Matt, good luck with your sale. 

Out of interest I see you are in Leics and wondered if you are anywhere near me (I am in Harby, Leics).


----------



## crazylarry72

Triode User said:


> Hi Matt, good luck with your sale.
> 
> Out of interest I see you are in Leics and wondered if you are anywhere near me (I am in Harby, Leics).


Cheers. I am in Kibworth.


----------



## crazylarry72

crazylarry72 said:


> Cheers. I am in Kibworth.


The CX is now sold but the EX (OLADRA) is still available https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/155145405408


----------



## Ciggavelli

@Triode User Do you ever go bnc only from your K50 to M-scaler?  I know you typically use USB with the Innuos PhoenixUSB.  I do the same, but I've been curious about going bnc straight from the K50 because I want to hear what the internal reclocker sounds like.  Since you're the bnc cables guy, I thought you might have some insight here.  Are there any sound quality improvements or decreases by going bnc vs usb?


----------



## Triode User

Ciggavelli said:


> @Triode User Do you ever go bnc only from your K50 to M-scaler?  I know you typically use USB with the Innuos PhoenixUSB.  I do the same, but I've been curious about going bnc straight from the K50 because I want to hear what the internal reclocker sounds like.  Since you're the bnc cables guy, I thought you might have some insight here.  Are there any sound quality improvements or decreases by going bnc vs usb?


I have found the best sound I can achieve from my K50 and Dave/Mscaler combination is to use the USB output from the K50 to a PhoenixUSB and then connect that to an SRC.DX usb to bnc convertor. I then use one of my Storm bnc cables from the SRC.DX to connect to the bnc input on the Mscaler.

I tried using the K50 bnc output but compared to my chain it was not as good. My K50 also has an optical output and I also tried that connected to the Mscaler but I soon changed back to using what I have.

The sound quality difference going from usb to the Mscaler and using bnc in the way I describe is significant to my ears and also to many other Dave/Mscaler owners because they do exactly what I do. 

If one is using PGGB files then one can add in a second bnc cable from the SRC.DX and go dual bnc direct to the Dave without the Mscaler. 

I do not know why the SRC.DX sounds so much better than the bnc output from the K50 but it is easily heard. In the great scheme of things they do not cost too much so it is worth a try. Have a look at the AudioWise site. Every now and then they run discounts but like I said they are not expensive anyway.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Triode User said:


> I have found the best sound I can achieve from my K50 and Dave/Mscaler combination is to use the USB output from the K50 to a PhoenixUSB and then connect that to an SRC.DX usb to bnc convertor. I then use one of my Storm bnc cables from the SRC.DX to connect to the bnc input on the Mscaler.
> 
> I tried using the K50 bnc output but compared to my chain it was not as good. My K50 also has an optical output and I also tried that connected to the Mscaler but I soon changed back to using what I have.
> 
> ...


Thanks  

I’ll check out th SRC.DX. It’s also kinda reassuring that the USB to PhoenixUSB is the best in your opinion, despite what Antipodes claims (they’re like don’t use usb for whatever reason). The Innuos PhoenixUSB has proven to be a great little device. I love it too


----------



## Progisus

The only output other than ethernet on the K30, S30, 40, EX, CX is usb. I thought it was an Antipodes engineered preferred output.


----------



## kennyb123

Ciggavelli said:


> It’s also kinda reassuring that the USB to PhoenixUSB is the best in your opinion, despite what Antipodes claims (they’re like don’t use usb for whatever reason).


I believe it has a lot to do with USB placing one at the mercy of the downstream clock.  The PhoenixUSB does reclock the signal using a high quality clock so that isn’t the typical case that would shift the advantage to their reclocker.  

I am hoping to audition a K50 in the not too distant future.  My DAC has an I2S input so the K50 will allow me to put it to good use.  Even so, I’m still think that USB will have a considerable advantage due to my use of a REF10 SE120.  This actually measures to -121 so I don’t see how their reclocker will have an advantage, but you never know.


----------



## Triode User

Progisus said:


> The only output other than ethernet on the K30, S30, 40, EX, CX is usb. I thought it was an Antipodes engineered preferred output.


So why would the k50 have bnc and optical if usb was the preferred output. The Innuos machines prefer usb and as a consequence the Statement only has usb. 

Anyway, from a user point of view there is a body of opinion that they sound better using bnc input rather than usb.


----------



## kennyb123

Triode User said:


> So why would the k50 have bnc and optical if usb was the preferred output. The Innuos machines prefer usb and as a consequence the Statement only has usb.


I honestly wish that the legacy synchronous interfaces had died a long time ago leaving all manufacturers focused on getting the best from USB.  I guess it’s good though that we have so many bloody options.

I think what bothers me about the different interfaces is the discussion seem generally out of proportion with the gains to be had.  

When I do get the opportunity to compare I2S from the K50 to USB, I unfortunately won’t be able to get apples-to-apples as far as the cables.  I can pull a good HDMI cables from my video system but it won’t really be fair to put it up against my USB cable.  Maybe I should think of renting something from the Cable Company.


----------



## Progisus

Triode User said:


> So why would the k50 have bnc and optical if usb was the preferred output. The Innuos machines prefer usb and as a consequence the Statement only has usb.
> 
> Anyway, from a user point of view there is a body of opinion that they sound better using bnc input rather than usb.


I meant preferred outout for the series I listed. The previous poster said Antipodes said to stay away from usb so I was defending that series.


----------



## richardloh

kennyb123 said:


> I’ve heard good things about the Tubulus I2S cables.  Let us know what you think.


Hi Kenny,

Just received the Tubulus Concentus hdmi and RJ45 and already sounding fine on initial use.

Will listen again after 4-5 days of 24/7 streaming by the Antipodes stack into Hermes ddc and T+ DE as well as Avatar Transport directly to T+ DE

Cheers.

Richard


----------



## richardloh (Sep 28, 2022)

kennyb123 said:


> I honestly wish that the legacy synchronous interfaces had died a long time ago leaving all manufacturers focused on getting the best from USB.  I guess it’s good though that we have so many bloody options.
> 
> I think what bothers me about the different interfaces is the discussion seem generally out of proportion with the gains to be had.
> 
> When I do get the opportunity to compare I2S from the K50 to USB, I unfortunately won’t be able to get apples-to-apples as far as the cables.  I can pull a good HDMI cables from my video system but it won’t really be fair to put it up against my USB cable.


https://antipodes.audio/design/

Hi Kenny, I thought Mark had been very clear on the preferred architecture with great details at each of 4 stages of digital playback together with the associated reasons in the link ?

It is usb and/or I2s ONLY for me on high dsd rated music files and fortunately, I believe I am in line with mentioned architecture with cx+ex stack via usb to Denafrips Hermes ddc/reclocker via i2s with added advantage of high quality cybershaft oxco clocks in just millimeters away from the R2R electronics within the Denafrips T+ DE that synchronises the Hermes and all its input sources, including usb from cx+ex stack.

Cheers.


----------



## DrPo

*Hi all, I would like the advice of this group as I am evaluating several options for upgrading my 'pre DAC' set up.

Currently using a (pre Oladra upgrade) EX in two main configurations: *

*as Roon server with a Sonore UR endpoint for the main rig and an SoTM 200 endpoint for the study*
*as SqueezeServer + SQPlayer into a P2 reclocker (main rig only), which is (much to my chagrin as I love Roon's interface) the best sounding option*

*The options I am evaluating are:*

*a K50*
*a combination of Roon Nucleus+ as server with a K22 as renderer + reclocker*
*other non Antipodes options (Grimm MU1, bespoke servers from boutique designers)*

*As this is an Antipodes thread, is there a consensus on whether option [2] above has any disadvantages versus option [1] (that is, are there expected sonic benefits from running the server function on an Antipodes machine versus Nucleus)?

thanks in advance*


----------



## kennyb123

DrPo said:


> *The options I am evaluating are:*
> 
> *a K50*
> *a combination of Roon Nucleus+ as server with a K22 as renderer + reclocker*
> *other non Antipodes options (Grimm MU1, bespoke servers from boutique designers)*



I don’t think option 2 stands much of a chance against option 1.  But with a really good power supply for the Nucleus, it might give you a nice bang for the buck when used with the K22.  You could always swap this for a K41 at a future time.

As far as option 3, I know that the Grimm has lots of fans.  It wouldn’t be a choice I’d make as it’s limited to running only Roon.

I’ve owned servers from Auralic and Innuos, but I wouldn’t buy from them again. I would definitely buy from Antipodes again.  Their pre- and post-sale support has been phenomenal.


----------



## coldbru

DrPo said:


> *as Roon server with a Sonore UR endpoint for the main rig and an SoTM 200 endpoint for the study*
> 
> *as SqueezeServer + SQPlayer into a P2 reclocker (main rig only), which is (much to my chagrin as I love Roon's interface) the best sounding option*
> 
> ...



In my experience the best performance for the EX is to isolate it from the server (a CX in my case) and everything else on the network with (in may case) 2 EtherRegens connected via SFP optical. In other words, CX > ethernet > EX does not sound as transparent as CX > ethernet > 2 etherregens with optical isolation > ethernet > EX. 

With that said, in context of your decision I would add:
- The Grimm resamples everything to 24/176 or 192. You benefit from their filtering, but if you are heavily invested in higher res content (DXD, or DSD 64 / 128 / etc) this may be bothersome. 
- The Grimm is simple: Roon only, EAS and SPDIF outputs only (USB is supported but doesn't seem recommended), no HQPlayer. The Antipodes solutions are complex: Roon, Roon + HQP, Roon + Squeeze, Squeeze, MPD, Airplay, UPnP, etc, and the K50 adds AES, SPDIF, HDMI, etc reclocked outputs. So if you enjoy the n% increases or differences you can maybe achieve with these options you may feel constrained. If you want to set it up and forget it, the Grimm might be preferable.


----------



## kennyb123

coldbru said:


> The Grimm resamples everything to 24/176 or 192. You benefit from their filtering, but if you are heavily invested in higher res content (DXD, or DSD 64 / 128 / etc) this may be bothersome.


It seems optimized for the legacy interfaces that max out at 192k.  



coldbru said:


> The Grimm is simple: Roon only, EAS and SPDIF outputs only (USB is supported but doesn't seem recommended), no HQPlayer. The Antipodes solutions are complex: Roon, Roon + HQP, Roon + Squeeze, Squeeze, MPD, Airplay, UPnP, etc, and the K50 adds AES, SPDIF, HDMI, etc reclocked outputs.



I’d use the term “limited” in place of “simple”.  Aiming to do fewer things well can be a better approach.

I wouldn’t say that Antipodes is “complex”.  They give their users the option of choosing simple (LMS/Squeeze) complex (HQPlayer) and a few options in between.  

I do agree though that a person who isn’t very technical might find Grimm a simpler to use.  Fewer options to choose from certainly reduces the learning curve.  Their documentation is excellent as well.


----------



## coldbru

Sure, and also, Grimm seems to be the hottest "what sounds best" at the moment. I haven't read any reviews that address how it sounds playing very high-res content (although I recall in the Alpha Audio interview the Grimm principals indicate they spent time thinking about how for instance 2xDSD gets filtered/samples down to the 4fs AES output), but frankly it seems not that many people (from a marketing perspective) care about DXD/4xDSD. 

... When are OLADRA reviews coming?  : D


----------



## Clive101

coldbru said:


> Sure, and also, Grimm seems to be the hottest "what sounds best" at the moment. I haven't read any reviews that address how it sounds playing very high-res content (although I recall in the Alpha Audio interview the Grimm principals indicate they spent time thinking about how for instance 2xDSD gets filtered/samples down to the 4fs AES output), but frankly it seems not that many people (from a marketing perspective) care about DXD/4xDSD.
> 
> ... When are OLADRA reviews coming?  : D


I am still waiting for an incoming OLADRA but recently purchased an  AfterDark Dela S100 more to follow......playing now on a Sean Jacobs DC1.


----------



## Triode User

It seems AMSv4 is coming in October . . .

https://antipodes.audio/software-updates/


----------



## vert

Ciggavelli said:


> @Triode User Do you ever go bnc only from your K50 to M-scaler?  I know you typically use USB with the Innuos PhoenixUSB.  I do the same, but I've been curious about going bnc straight from the K50 because I want to hear what the internal reclocker sounds like.  Since you're the bnc cables guy, I thought you might have some insight here.  Are there any sound quality improvements or decreases by going bnc vs usb?



I see you've gone all in with the Sean Jacobs and K50.

But you need sine regeneration for digital. The sine wave in the US is bad. 

If you get an Isotek sine wave regenerator it will make huge dividends for digital. And you'll wonder where it's been all your life.


----------



## Ciggavelli

vert said:


> I see you've gone all in with the Sean Jacobs and K50.
> 
> But you need sine regeneration for digital. The sine wave in the US is bad.
> 
> If you get an Isotek sine wave regenerator it will make huge dividends for digital. And you'll wonder where it's been all your life.


Thanks, I’ll check it out


----------



## andrewd01

Triode User said:


> It seems AMSv4 is coming in October . . .
> 
> https://antipodes.audio/software-updates/



Another completely new interface.  I wish they would just pick an interface and run with it instead of constantly changing it. Looks like change for changes sake.


----------



## 12grayclouds (Oct 3, 2022)

I would say it looks like a fantastic improvement, no point making comment until it is in use


----------



## Progisus

andrewd01 said:


> Another completely new interface.  I wish they would just pick an interface and run with it instead of constantly changing it. Looks like change for changes sake.


The ability to monitor loading is welcome.


----------



## kennyb123

andrewd01 said:


> Another completely new interface.  I wish they would just pick an interface and run with it instead of constantly changing it. Looks like change for changes sake.


They did this to benefit new users who have struggled to figure things out.  We aren’t privy to all the support tickets that customers submitted, but for Antipodes to take this on I suspect it pained them to see their customers struggling to get their new servers up and running.  We should applaud them for wanting to make things easier for their customers.

I think the new interface is fantastic.  It not only makes it easier for a new customer to get up and running but it also simplifies the switching between software choices.  Those who have multiple DACs are gonna love the presets too.  What used to take multiple clicks can all be accomplished by changing to a different preset.

They’ve substituted words for what uses to be icons on buttons.  I’m sure each of us had occasions where we clicked the gear icon when instead we wanted to click on the open button.  I still get occasionally tripped up by that, but those days will be over once the new version is released.


----------



## andrewd01

I can see the benefits, but really hope they stop messing with the interface after this one.  I had only just got used to the last major change.
I would like to see them putting more effort into making the underlying processes run more efficiently so sound quality improves.


----------



## kennyb123

andrewd01 said:


> I can see the benefits, but really hope they stop messing with the interface after this one.  I had only just got used to the last major change.
> I would like to see them putting more effort into making the underlying processes run more efficiently so sound quality improves.


I agree with the desire to see things stabilize.  But I think your expectations need to be adjusted to face the reality of what kind of products these actually are.  These aren't inexpensive products so "good enough" isn't good enough for most of those who shelled out big dollars for these boxes.  I think many of us would be rather disappointed if the software became stale.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Being able to monitor cpu usage without having a dev account is going to be super helpful for me.  When Antipodes was looking at my K50, there was very high cpu usage on all cores.  They said it wasn't typical, but might be due to my library size being so large.  I want to monitor cpu usage in real-time to see if my random crashes are due to high cpu load.


----------



## barbz127

Ciggavelli said:


> Being able to monitor cpu usage without having a dev account is going to be super helpful for me.  When Antipodes was looking at my K50, there was very high cpu usage on all cores.  They said it wasn't typical, but might be due to my library size being so large.  I want to monitor cpu usage in real-time to see if my random crashes are due to high cpu load.


And temperatures when doing the initial load of a library and opening it up to a few cores to just smash it out.

I beleive the operating system is built upon sonicorbitor OS so these changes may be due to an upgrade in that platform rather than something antipodes are specifically pushing themselves.


----------



## kennyb123

barbz127 said:


> I beleive the operating system is built upon sonicorbitor OS so these changes may be due to an upgrade in that platform rather than something antipodes are specifically pushing themselves.



Antipodes has been driving the AMS 4 changes themselves. They’ve also stated that AMS 4 is just a GUI change.  Charts such as these are straightforward to implement though Antipodes has brought a cool look to them.  I’ve been impressed with a few problems their developer solved so I suspect credit is theirs for this.


----------



## kennyb123

I’m sure anyone reading my comments since I began posting in this thread knows that I’ve been absolutely delighted with my K30.  It really has been one of the best audio purchase I’ve made.  And yet here I sit listening to a demo K50.  It’s been here two weeks.  The first week I could hear that it was clearly a step up from my K30.  Not sure though that it was enough of a step up to justify its much higher price.  But by the second week, holy crap I now fear for my wallet.  As much as I know that servers make a difference, it is still astonishes me that a server can make this much of a difference. It’s not subtle at all.  I’ll share some observations over the next few weeks.


----------



## Whazzzup

That’s the thing with antipodes, the longer you listen, the better it gets.


----------



## Triode User

kennyb123 said:


> I’m sure anyone reading my comments since I began posting in this thread knows that I’ve been absolutely delighted with my K30.  It really has been one of the best audio purchase I’ve made.  And yet here I sit listening to a demo K50.  It’s been here two weeks.  The first week I could hear that it was clearly a step up from my K30.  Not sure though that it was enough of a step up to justify its much higher price.  But by the second week, holy crap I now fear for my wallet.  As much as I know that servers make a difference, it is still astonishes me that a server can make this much of a difference. It’s not subtle at all.  I’ll share some observations over the next few weeks.


Which output are you using and which server / player software? I know what I prefer with the K50 but I just wondered what you think.


----------



## kennyb123

Triode User said:


> Which output are you using and which server / player software? I know what I prefer with the K50 but I just wondered what you think.


I have thus far only had success getting my PGGB’d files to play over USB.  I am eager to try I2S but in my first attempt I could only play as high as 192 via Squeeze.  I will try again at some point.

It’s not going to be a fair fight as I have no cables as good as the Omega USB to use with the reclocker.  At present I have a Nordost Blue Heaven HDMI connected to serve as the I2S cable.  I think I may revisit this tonight.

My DAC allows one to switch between its internal clock and an external reference clock using an option in the menu.  My REF10 SE120 makes an important contribution when using USB.  With I2S via the reclocker I found the sound to me more natural when I flipped the DAC back to using its internal clock.  I’m guessing that a reference clock adds jitter when using a synchronous input.


----------



## kennyb123

I must say that I2S out of the K50 sounds awfully good - even though a modest HDMI cable like the Nordost Blue Heaven.


kennyb123 said:


> I am eager to try I2S but in my first attempt I could only play as high as 192 via Squeeze. I will try again at some point.


I was able to get I2S to go up to as far as 384K.  It seems I had misremember the specs for the K50, as that's the max PCM rate over I2S.  

I will process some files at 8FS and use those to do some comparisons.


----------



## kennyb123

Triode User said:


> Which output are you using and which server / player software? I know what I prefer with the K50 but I just wondered what you think.


As I suspected, the disparity in the quality of my digital cables tilted things in favor of my better cable.  I describe round one at this link.


----------



## Clive101

The Oladra has been delivered.
Installed on my headphone system....wish had I hadn't, as it is final destination is on the speaker system but heck it needs burning in...or so I thought !
Cold system OMG
Hang on to your wallets.


----------



## Whazzzup

Im holding tight, you can pry my dx3 from my cold dead hands


----------



## divertiti

Clive101 said:


> The Oladra has been delivered.
> Installed on my headphone system....wish had I hadn't, as it is final destination is on the speaker system but heck it needs burning in...or so I thought !
> Cold system OMG
> Hang on to your wallets.


Congrats on the new toy. What streamer/server did the Oladra replace? What sonic differences are you hearing?


----------



## Clive101

Early days.
Compared to the K50 a different playing field.
Just think what you what in music, detailed, no fatigue, great mid range, textured bass. 
Just so well balanced been listening for now 3 hours from new and still going strong.
Also just added a AfterDark S100..... more to follow....


----------



## barbz127

Clive101 said:


> AfterDark S100..


Keen to hear more about this


----------



## Triode User

Clive101 said:


> The Oladra has been delivered.
> Installed on my headphone system....wish had I hadn't, as it is final destination is on the speaker system but heck it needs burning in...or so I thought !
> Cold system OMG
> Hang on to your wallets.


A review of the Oladra . . . . 

https://www.hifistatement.net/tests...G397v3ycwi5NcIW-xYINU3Vr6a1rURgmIklJNG6rCzUyc


----------



## hicr49

Clive101 said:


> The Oladra has been delivered.
> Installed on my headphone system....wish had I hadn't, as it is final destination is on the speaker system but heck it needs burning in...or so I thought !
> Cold system OMG
> Hang on to your wallets.


Congrats!  Can't wait to hear your take on the Oladra


----------



## kennyb123

hicr49 said:


> Congrats!  Can't wait to hear your take on the Oladra


Same here!


----------



## Clive101

barbz127 said:


> Keen to hear more about this


I will be posting about this in detail as now fully burnt in. For the time being this switch fully loaded, gives immense separation between instruments, the timing is improved and makes your existing system sound smeared by comparison. I cannot unhear what this has to done in terms of SQ and this is with the supplied SMPS, A further improvement with a Sean Jacobes DC1.
The AfterDark is a no brainer as has fiber built in and the option of an external power supply. 


Triode User said:


> A review of the Oladra . . . .
> 
> https://www.hifistatement.net/tests...G397v3ycwi5NcIW-xYINU3Vr6a1rURgmIklJNG6rCzUyc


Nice review, I have only listened via a Wave cable as this was my preferred sound with the K50. Most of the review I agree with (I have yet to try the USB output).



hicr49 said:


> Congrats!  Can't wait to hear your take on the Oladra





kennyb123 said:


> Same here!


I had hoped to put the Oladra into my speaker system this weekend but I forgot my XLR cables (as these were being used in my headphone system and a preamp vs new amp comparison and needed like for like cables).
To say I was disappointed is the understatement, the Oldara is just looking at me saying please play me.
But it did give me a chance to check my grounding system and make some alterations.
So next weekend I will give the K50 a warmup along with the AfterDark switch, listen in the morning then introduce the Oladra in the afternoon.
I will also try the Oladra with and without the AfterDark to see how good the Oldara is on a noisy network.
More to follow.....

PS The dealer and or Antipodes have yet to come back to me about how to system ground the Oladra.


----------



## Whazzzup

I’m still gripping my wallet tightly


----------



## kennyb123

Clive101 said:


> For the time being this switch fully loaded, gives immense separation between instruments, the timing is improved and makes your existing system sound smeared by comparison. I cannot unhear what this has to done in terms of SQ and this is with the supplied SMPS, A further improvement with a Sean Jacobes DC1.
> The AfterDark is a no brainer as has fiber built in and the option of an external power supply.


Thanks for sharing your insights.  How do the improvements compare when playing from local storage relative to streaming across the switch?


----------



## Clive101

kennyb123 said:


> Thanks for sharing your insights.  How do the improvements compare when playing from local storage relative to streaming across the switch?


Good question.

With the AfterDark network switch connected both the local storage and streaming play better, period. I put this down to the fiber isolation and external power supply of the AfterDark.

Now the burning question does streamed music play the same as locally stored files?

My best guesstimate is that the streaming music could be better as the AfterDark has an expensive clock which re-clocks the stream which in essence less work for the player as it has a better-timed stream. It could be that with the same file plays better streamed than locally!

I will have to do some listening next week if I get time.

1. Try the same file played locally with the AfterDark connected and disconnected from the server.
2. Purchase an album on Qubuz, compare the streamed version with the same album purchased form Qubuz and played locally both through the Antipodes.

Anyone.

Any suggestion on the album to purchase perhaps with various artists, different genre?


----------



## kennyb123

Clive101 said:


> I will have to do some listening next week if I get time.
> 
> 1. Try the same file played locally with the AfterDark connected and disconnected from the server.
> 2. Purchase an album on Qubuz, compare the streamed version with the same album purchased form Qubuz and played locally both through the Antipodes.


This would be very interesting indeed.  I’ve done something similar a few times in the past.  I took it one step further with #2 in that I also placed the same file on my NAS.  What I recall was the EtherRegen closing the gap between NAS and Qobuz but local still sounding best. That was several years ago.

More recently surprised me was hearing a noticeable uptick to music stored locally just by switching the ER to use of an external clock.  I would have thought this would have provided benefit only to music passing through the switch, but that wasn’t the case and it surprised me.  I have a feeling you will observe something similar.


----------



## Clive101

kennyb123 said:


> More recently surprised me was hearing a noticeable uptick to music stored locally just by switching the ER to use of an external clock. I would have thought this would have provided benefit only to music passing through the switch, but that wasn’t the case and it surprised me. I have a feeling you will observe something similar.


Yes, indeed.
I "Thought" I heard an uplift in SQ with local files as well, even though they technically do not go through the AfterDark.
Which is why I need to do some listening.
I found this phenomenon disturbing as there seems to be no reason why it should happen?
I am glad you had a similar experience.


----------



## kennyb123

Clive101 said:


> I "Thought" I heard an uplift in SQ with local files as well, even though they technically do not go through the AfterDark.
> Which is why I need to do some listening.
> I found this phenomenon disturbing as there seems to be no reason why it should happen?


It seems better switches reduce incoming noise and that benefits playback regardless of where the music file is stored.


----------



## Progisus

I upgraded my fibre convertor from 10Gtek to Sonore Optical Module. No change in sound for me. I use my homemade cat5e cables from there to the K30 and from K30 to EX (direct stream for PGGB) so no ground loops possible. I’ve always felt my system was noise free so I wasn’t expecting much. The rest of my house uses Netgear unmanaged switches and velop mesh wifi nodes. I would expect the audiophile switches to aid those with noise or ground loops.


----------



## Whazzzup

Netgear unmanaged switches and audioquest rj Diamond Ethernet cables for me. No noise I can tell. Rogers ignite router new, pretty good wifi, with a pod.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Oct 19, 2022)

I just updated to AMS 4.0 and it bricked my K50.  I can't even play music anymore.  Do not update right now.

Antipodes is pissing me the fukc off.  This K50 has been trouble since I've bought it, with random crashes that nobody can seem to fix.  I have a meeting with them tomorrow, we shall see if they can fix these problems.

Edit: I got the K50 to play music again, but the new software is extremely slow.  Like extremely slow.  It's not my internet either (I did a speed test).  It's like 10 times slower than AMS 3.x.  This sh!t is like in a beta stage

Edit 2: There is no way to add music files to the server because that option is broken.  Super big fail on Antipodes part


----------



## Progisus

Ciggavelli said:


> I just updated to AMS 4.0 and it bricked my K50.  I can't even play music anymore.  Do not update right now.
> 
> Antipodes is pissing me the fukc off.  This K50 has been trouble since I've bought it, with random crashes that nobody can seem to fix.  I have a meeting with them tomorrow, we shall see if they can fix these problems.
> 
> Edit: I got the K50 to play music again, but the new software is extremely slow.  Like extremely slow.  It's not my internet either (I did a speed test).  It's like 10 times slower than AMS 3.x.  This sh!t is like in a beta stage


Sorry to hear that. Let’s hope they can fix it. After I installed AMS4 I couldn’t connect to my K30 but I could to my EX. I made an appointment and went out to get the mail. I came back in about an hour and everything was fine and has continued to be. I was able to cancel the appointment. Maybe you have some flakey ram?


----------



## Ciggavelli

Progisus said:


> Sorry to hear that. Let’s hope they can fix it. After I installed AMS4 I couldn’t connect to my K30 but I could to my EX. I made an appointment and went out to get the mail. I came back in about an hour and everything was fine and has continued to be. I was able to cancel the appointment. Maybe you have some flakey ram?


Thanks.  I'm not sure.  It is possible.  All I know is I was listening to music and using my K50 and AMS3.x just fine, was prompted to upgrade to AMS4 and now everything is broken.  I'm just going to ignore this problem until tomorrow.  I know Antipodes is going to say it's my internet or router that is causing these problems.  My response is going to be why did AMS 3 work then?  

Software aside, I think my CPU is overheating and that's why roon crashes when I look at too many albums or edit too much metadata.  I brought this up with Antipodes in the past, and they just told me my internet was too slow.  . I have faster internet now, and the same problems are occurring. Maybe they will be more helpful tomorrow.


----------



## 12grayclouds

Ciggavelli said:


> Thanks.  I'm not sure.  It is possible.  All I know is I was listening to music and using my K50 and AMS3.x just fine, was prompted to upgrade to AMS4 and now everything is broken.  I'm just going to ignore this problem until tomorrow.  I know Antipodes is going to say it's my internet or router that is causing these problems.  My response is going to be why did AMS 3 work then?
> 
> Software aside, I think my CPU is overheating and that's why roon crashes when I look at too many albums or edit too much metadata.  I brought this up with Antipodes in the past, and they just told me my internet was too slow.  . I have faster internet now, and the same problems are occurring. Maybe they will be more helpful tomorrow.


Just because you can connect to the internet doesnt make your network awesome, just saying.


----------



## Ciggavelli

12grayclouds said:


> Just because you can connect to the internet doesnt make your network awesome, just saying.


That’s fair. I dunno why it worked fine with AMS3 and now it won’t with AMS4 though


----------



## Clive101

Ciggavelli said:


> That’s fair. I dunno why it worked fine with AMS3 and now it won’t with AMS4 though


Hope you updated the player first with hard reboot then server, otherwise you may need a new install.
If using Roon select different core, turn off audio analyzation etc as this uses a lot of CPU recourses. 
You may have two DHCP devices on your network if so, the player will not see server or if it does its luck of the draw. 
Just disable one and give it a static ip address and reserve the same ip address in the only device that has the DHCP enabled.
Hope that helps.
Let us know how you get on


----------



## Whazzzup

Yikes, thx for the warnings, sorry to hear, I’m sure they’ll fix/replace/service whatever but it’s a hassle.


----------



## Progisus

Clive101 said:


> Hope you updated the player first with hard reboot then server, otherwise you may need a new install.
> If using Roon select different core, turn off audio analyzation etc as this uses a lot of CPU recourses.
> You may have two DHCP devices on your network if so, the player will not see server or if it does its luck of the draw.
> Just disable one and give it a static ip address and reserve the same ip address in the only device that has the DHCP enabled.
> ...


I updated both before the hard reboot. That is probably what led to my loss of communication. Luckily it resolved itself although I did reboot modem, router media convertor etc etc. 

It will be interesting to see if AMS4 makes it easier for new users. I do like the presets feature but it needs a save button once you have everything the way you want it. I realize it saves continuously while that preset is selected but that is not intuitive.


----------



## Ciggavelli

So Antipodes did fukc up. I was on an appointment with them today and they told me it’s a known issue with AMS 4. They couldn’t fix it tonight, but they claim a fix is coming this weekend. Don’t update if you haven’t yet


----------



## barbz127

Is this an issue with roon and squeeze as the player?

I had read elsewhere that if youre using roon + squeeze as the player you needed to disable and re-enable squeeze support in roon to get the player to show.

Thankyou


----------



## 12grayclouds (Oct 20, 2022)

@Ciggavelli wow you seem to be a complete TOOL, arent they trying to help you


----------



## Whazzzup (Oct 20, 2022)

is The use of cock an expression like smoko?


----------



## 12grayclouds

LOL, edited, it is kinda like smoko, but more like a tool


----------



## Ciggavelli

12grayclouds said:


> @Ciggavelli wow you seem to be a complete TOOL, arent they trying to help you


Are you fukcing serious?  I spend $15K on a server, it crashes randomly for the past year.  Antipodes tells me it was due to my internet and router 3 times over the past year.  I upgrade my internet and router and the problem still occurs.  Then I update to AMS 4.0 and it bricks my system.  I just got off a session with Antipodes and it turns out my ram is bad.  It's been my ram the whole time, but antipodes for some reason only wanted to blame the user.  I'm pissed off.  This is a $15k device, not some sh!tty $2k POS server.  And I'm the tool?


----------



## 12grayclouds

confirmed


----------



## Ciggavelli

barbz127 said:


> Is this an issue with roon and squeeze as the player?
> 
> I had read elsewhere that if youre using roon + squeeze as the player you needed to disable and re-enable squeeze support in roon to get the player to show.
> 
> Thankyou


I think it's an issue with some systems for everything, or at least that's what I gather from them.  I use roon player and roon server though


----------



## Ciggavelli

12grayclouds said:


> confirmed


Do you work for Antipodes or something?  I can't for the life of me understand why you would defend a company like this for no good reason.  They've been fukcing up for a year now, bricked systems by updating AMS, etc.  I get people make mistakes, but to blame the customer's internet for a year for no good reason?  Then I come to find out it was the ram.  That's bad customer service.  You can disagree, but that's bad customer service is my book.


----------



## 12grayclouds

Ciggavelli said:


> Do you work for Antipodes or something?  I can't for the life of me understand why you would defend a company like this for no good reason.  They've been fukcing up for a year now, bricked systems by updating AMS, etc.  I get people make mistakes, but to blame the customer's internet for a year for no good reason?  Then I come to find out it was the ram.  That's bad customer service.  You can disagree, but that's bad customer service


lol, no  Ive been an Antipodes customer for years, they have done nothing but look after me, I guess thats just the other side of the coin.


----------



## Ciggavelli

12grayclouds said:


> lol, no  Ive been an Antipodes customer for years, they have done nothing but look after me, I guess thats just the other side of the coin.


Yeah, I've heard people say Antipodes has great customer service.  Well, that has not been the case for me, as explained above.  I have written a complaint to them, and hopefully this type of service won't happen to other people.


----------



## Progisus

Ciggavelli said:


> Are you fukcing serious?  I spend $15K on a server, it crashes randomly for the past year.  Antipodes tells me it was due to my internet and router 3 times over the past year.  I upgrade my internet and router and the problem still occurs.  Then I update to AMS 4.0 and it bricks my system.  I just got off a session with Antipodes and it turns out my ram is bad.  It's been my ram the whole time, but antipodes for some reason only wanted to blame the user.  I'm pissed off.  This is a $15k device, not some sh!tty $2k POS server.  And I'm the tool?


I guessed right. Glad they found it.


----------



## Whazzzup

whoa boys nobody should made to feel bad about their server not working properly, and all I’m taking from this, is to wait a few months for the new op system to be tweaked before I’ll update.


----------



## F208Frank

Ciggavelli said:


> I just updated to AMS 4.0 and it bricked my K50.  I can't even play music anymore.  Do not update right now.
> 
> Antipodes is pissing me the fukc off.  This K50 has been trouble since I've bought it, with random crashes that nobody can seem to fix.  I have a meeting with them tomorrow, we shall see if they can fix these problems.
> 
> ...


This is quite alarming to read, hope everything works out, please update us.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Oct 21, 2022)

F208Frank said:


> This is quite alarming to read, hope everything works out, please update us.


Will do. Honestly, if they were unable to determine the issue on this last session, I probably would have sold my K50. That’s how bad the issue was for me. My K50 crashes like every day, and Antipodes just kept giving me the runaround. It’s been an unpleasant experience. I’ve been looking into Taiko and Pink Fauna recently because of my K50 issues.  Hopefully the new ram with fix the issue completely though. I don’t really want to drop Taiko prices if I don’t have to.


----------



## Clive101

Ciggavelli said:


> Will do. Honestly, if they were unable to determine the issue on this last session, I probably would have sold my K50. That’s how bad the issue was for me. My K50 crashes like every day, and Antipodes just kept giving me the runaround. It’s been an unpleasant experience. I’ve been looking into Taiko and Pink Fauna recently because of my K50 issues.  Hopefully the new ram with fix the issue completely though. I don’t really want to drop Taiko prices if I don’t have to.


If it were me, I would get an Oladra on demo and hold it hostsge while the K50 is being fixed


----------



## kennyb123

Ciggavelli said:


> Do you work for Antipodes or something? I can't for the life of me understand why you would defend a company like this for no good reason. They've been fukcing up for a year now, bricked systems by updating AMS, etc. I get people make mistakes, but to blame the customer's internet for a year for no good reason? Then I come to find out it was the ram. That's bad customer service. You can disagree, but that's bad customer service is my book.


The tone you use makes me wonder if maybe you have been choosing to be part of the problem instead of part of the solution.  I don’t know the details in your case, but I just don’t see how anyone benefits from complaints expressed in this fashion. 

I was actually taken aback by your assertion that @12grayclouds would defend them for “no good reason”.  That he would come forth suggests that he feels that they‘ve given him a good reason to.  That’s true for me and I’d suspect it‘s true for most of us who participate here.  What I’ve consistently seen from Antipodes is desire to do right by their customers.  That’s not always an easy thing to do because these are complex products and they are a small company. 

Clearly you aren’t happy with their products.  That’s okay, because we all have owned products that have pissed us off.  But if you’ve reached the point where you are lashing out at not just them but also at their customers who support them, maybe you are already past the point of no return and it’s time to make a change.  I like to think that everything happens for a reason, so maybe that bad RAM was just the universe’s way of nudging you on.  This hobby is supposed to be fun.  Life is way too short to allow an aspect of one of your hobbies to rob you of your joy.

I’ll keep my fingers crossed though that somehow you end up sticking with your K50 as all your issues get ironed out.  The K50 that’s on loan to me has been bringing me so much joy.  I’d like to see that be the case for you too.


----------



## Whazzzup

No doubt my journey with antipodes has seen ups and downs. my dtgs had a power outage reboot problem, my dx3 couldn’t download 3.1 and got stuck in the process, my dx3 when upgraded to oladra had the wrong fuse installed and wouldn’t work. Antipodes made good with me at every step. Course I always had a positive attitude and just looked for help. I was more disappointed then angry cause I knew what good sound was achievable. There isn’t a company I’d stake reputation and service on that equals antipodes. but life a box of chocolates, you never know what your going to get.


----------



## Ciggavelli

kennyb123 said:


> The tone you use makes me wonder if maybe you have been choosing to be part of the problem instead of part of the solution.  I don’t know the details in your case, but I just don’t see how anyone benefits from complaints expressed in this fashion.
> 
> I was actually taken aback by your assertion that @12grayclouds would defend them for “no good reason”.  That he would come forth suggests that he feels that they‘ve given him a good reason to.  That’s true for me and I’d suspect it‘s true for most of us who participate here.  What I’ve consistently seen from Antipodes is desire to do right by their customers.  That’s not always an easy thing to do because these are complex products and they are a small company.
> 
> ...


I guess to distill my problem with Antipodes, it would be that they didn’t take my problems seriously. They didn’t listen to me and didn’t believe that their product was at fault.  That is very frustrating. 

Also, I can understand you being happy with Antipodes. However, your good experience doesn’t invalidate my bad experience.


----------



## kennyb123

Ciggavelli said:


> Also, I can understand you being happy with Antipodes. However, your good experience doesn’t invalidate my bad experience.


No it doesn’t invalidate it, but we shouldn’t limit it to two datapoints.  There are many others who seem very happy with Antipodes. While some have certainly expressed dissatisfaction over hiccups encountered, several of the accusations you’ve made haven’t been expressed by anyone else that I recall.  You’ve been the only one using an accusatory tone with remarks like “Antipodes did fukc up” and they “bricked” your K50.  If your private exchanges with them were tinged with the same tone might that have possibly contributed to them eventually leaving you with the impression that they weren’t taking your problems seriously?

Obviously I can’t know whether that was the case.  I can only speak from my personal experience.  When the K30’s second drive bay wasn’t recognizing the drive, Mark was quick to take action.  He asked me to check that all the connections were good and after I confirmed that he arranged for it to go to their repair guy.  When I encountered issues with the AMS upgrades, I was able to quickly arrange a support call and have the problems resolved.  And while both Nick and I struggled a bit to figure out how to get Squeeze to play PCM up to 768k, once the solution was found, with last few AMS updates Mark has made sure that this capability would be preserved.  He proactively reached out to me to ask for a file he could test with and to understand how I had configured it.  In fairness, it did bother me that AMS 3.1 took so long to get to us and bring with it updates to the apps.  I vented here and even complained to Mark about it. He was quick to respond and was forthcoming in his explanation for why it was taking so long.  This is my long-winded way of saying that my interactions with them have left me with an impression that’s exactly the opposite of yours.  They are good guys who really do care about us having a great experience.


----------



## Ciggavelli

kennyb123 said:


> No it doesn’t invalidate it, but we shouldn’t limit it to two datapoints.  There are many others who seem very happy with Antipodes. While some have certainly expressed dissatisfaction over hiccups encountered, several of the accusations you’ve made haven’t been expressed by anyone else that I recall.  You’ve been the only one using an accusatory tone with remarks like “Antipodes did fukc up” and they “bricked” your K50.  If your private exchanges with them were tinged with the same tone might that have possibly contributed to them eventually leaving you with the impression that they weren’t taking your problems seriously?
> 
> Obviously I can’t know whether that was the case.  I can only speak from my personal experience.  When the K30’s second drive bay wasn’t recognizing the drive, Mark was quick to take action.  He asked me to check that all the connections were good and after I confirmed that he arranged for it to go to their repair guy.  When I encountered issues with the AMS upgrades, I was able to quickly arrange a support call and have the problems resolved.  And while both Nick and I struggled a bit to figure out how to get Squeeze to play PCM up to 768k, once the solution was found, with last few AMS updates Mark has made sure that this capability would be preserved.  He proactively reached out to me to ask for a file he could test with and to understand how I had configured it.  In fairness, it did bother me that AMS 3.1 took so long to get to us and bring with it updates to the apps.  I vented here and even complained to Mark about it. He was quick to respond and was forthcoming in his explanation for why it was taking so long.  This is my long-winded way of saying that my interactions with them have left me with an impression that’s exactly the opposite of yours.  They are good guys who really do care about us having a great experience.


I was nothing but nice to them with my interactions.  They were never able to fix my problems and blamed it on me for having "bad" internet.  I was skeptical, but eventually better internet came to my area.  The problems still occurred.  Then I find out yesterday that it was my ram the whole time.  I could have avoided a year of problems with my K50 (I have complained about my K50 crashing in this thread multiple times) had Antipodes did the right thing and tested my ram in the beginning.  Once I learned that it wasn't my internet that was the reason for the problems (which was yesterday), I became pretty upset, as can be seen by my posts in here.  I have written a complaint to Mark about my issue.  I think most people would be upset that their very expensive server hasn't been working for a year.  Then to find out they could have fixed this issue a year ago, makes me upset.  They spent a year telling me it was my internet, didn't offer to get my unit examined, etc.  

I am upset, but I was always nice to them up until yesterday.  To learn it was an issue with my ram, after being told for a year that it was my fault for having bad internet, leaves a bad taste in my mouth.   🤷‍♂️


----------



## kennyb123

Ciggavelli said:


> I am upset, but I was always nice to them up until yesterday. To learn it was an issue with my ram, after being told for a year that it was my fault for having bad internet, leaves a bad taste in my mouth. 🤷‍♂️


That’s fair.  I think you might even be handling it better than I would if that happened to me.  I hope it all has a happy ending.


----------



## Ciggavelli

kennyb123 said:


> That’s fair.  I think you might even be handling it better than I would if that happened to me.  I hope it all has a happy ending.


I have written Mark, he responded once for me to clarify the issue I had.  I responded to that, and I'm awaiting his response (it's the weekend already for them).  All I expect is an acknowledgment of their error, an apology, and a solution.  If they do that, I will be happy with Antipodes again.


----------



## naynay (Oct 28, 2022)

My issue is now fixed. The source setting on EX player settings was set wrong.


----------



## Ciggavelli

naynay said:


> I just upgraded to AMS 4.0 now the EX is not seeing any of my music library stored on the CX. Anyone have any ideas?


There is a problem with AMS 4.0.  They said it had something to do with incorrect names.  They couldn't fix it on my end when I had a session with them.  Antipodes claims a fix is coming this weekend though.  Basically, AMS 4.0 is broken for some people, and you and I happen to fall into that category.


----------



## F208Frank

All this reading of updating fails, I am just not going to update, hah.

My Roon works fine.


----------



## Progisus

I actually preferred the original sonicorbiter software. I felt I was more in control and that programs were actually being unloaded. I also liked the frequent application updates. It feels sometimes that app updates are being held back. It does look more polished and removes the sonicorbiter branding which I imagine Antipodes was aiming for. Still great sound and first league tech support.


----------



## andrewd01

Whazzzup said:


> whoa boys nobody should made to feel bad about their server not working properly, and all I’m taking from this, is to wait a few months for the new op system to be tweaked before I’ll update.



I’m with you on that.  I won’t go anywhere near major updates on day one.  Having a bricked music system would be very stressful.

I really hope this is the last ‘major‘ update of AMS.  I thought it was perfectly fine as it was.  Small incremental changes are fine, but completely rebuilding it every year will cause inevitable bugs. I don’t want to be a beta tester.


----------



## naynay (Oct 28, 2022)

Ciggavelli said:


> There is a problem with AMS 4.0.  They said it had something to do with incorrect names.  They couldn't fix it on my end when I had a session with them.  Antipodes claims a fix is coming this weekend though.  Basically, AMS 4.0 is broken for some people, and you and I happen to fall into that category.


My issue is now fixed. The source setting on EX player settings was set wrong.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Well, no acknowledgment of their error and no apology from Mark. He responded to my email only to say he received my RMA request. He completely ignored the rest of my concerns. I think that speaks for itself. I will not be discussing this issue further on here, but needless to say I’m not pleased. Let’s hope the RMA process goes well…


----------



## Clive101

Hi All,

I had a day with the Oladra and the AfterDark Switch (fully loaded, fiber, in from a noisy 20 port poe network switch, ethernet out to server) SJ DC1. 

I first tried the K50 with the AfterDark to remind myself of the sound and then switched to the Oladra with the AfterDark.

Firstly, without question, streaming sounds better than local files on both the K50 and Oladra with the AfterDark switch, I flipped back and forth between Qobuz and the same file on the SSD (Roon gives you the option of different versions).
After a while and a little practice, I could tell the difference without an AB. "Once" I was a little disappointed as I could not find a difference only to discover Qobuz had only two versions of the same album and I had no version on SSD!

So, I tried the Oladra without the AfterDark to see how the Oladra would sound, conclusion the AfterDark was an upgrade.

I have yet to switch back to the K50 (next week) to fully compare with the Oladra.

But for the moment the Oladra has more detail but relaxed (not dark, bloated) and more musical than the K50 and I can tolerate poorly recorded tracks with the Oladra whereas with the k50 can find it a little irritating by comparison.

The AfterDark gives better timing, separation, lower noise and cleaner sound ie it seems to unjumble the music but does not add any brightness.
It does this to the K50 and the Oladra. Even on SSD with the AfterDark there is an improvement.    

More to follow next week


----------



## andrewd01

Clive, have you tried the Jcat M12 Gold switch?  I have not, but from what I have read on WBF it is an end game solution.  Looking at the after dark web site I see they sell audiophile cable lifters for £115 each - that makes me skeptical about anything else they sell


----------



## Clive101

andrewd01 said:


> Clive, have you tried the Jcat M12 Gold switch?  I have not, but from what I have read on WBF it is an end game solution.  Looking at the after dark web site I see they sell audiophile cable lifters for £115 each - that makes me skeptical about anything else they sell


Looking at the cable lifters well made for approx £28.00 each not too bad. I did read somewhere lifting cables made a difference because of touching a surface electromagnetic force of some type. 
I am not sure and not done an AB with cables lifters but could make a difference perhaps with a vibrating floor perhaps?
I have not tried the Jcat but tried a few switches a while ago, one degraded SQ.
I tried a Melco S100 (AKA Dela100) a few years ago but the benefit in my system at the time was marginal (perhaps the CX EX had more filtering effect) so just moved on.
I am thinking of sending the AfterDark to another well know member to see if they have a similar view.


----------



## kennyb123

Clive101 said:


> Looking at the cable lifters well made for approx £28.00 each not too bad. I did read somewhere lifting cables made a difference because of touching a surface electromagnetic force of some type.
> I am not sure and not done an AB with cables lifters but could make a difference perhaps with a vibrating floor perhaps?


I use some of the now-discontinued Shunyata Dark Field Elevators.  I did not notice an improvement when first placing these under my speaker cables.  A friend wanted to try them so I sent them off.  That's when I noticed that sound quality had  degraded as things became a little smeared.  It was subtle but it was enough to have me looking forward to receiving them back.

I now use MIT speaker cables that have networks within plastic boxes. My previous pair were from the MIT Oracle series and they had the metal box.  Placing these boxes on the original Stillpoints cones brought an improvement that wasn't difficult to hear.    Moving up to the Ultra SS improved things even more but that's when diminishing returns kicked in. 

My speakers sit on Stillpoints so I do think that as part of the reason I heard further gains from getting the speaker cables off the floor and onto devices that help to drain vibration off of the cables.  I think it's a good practice as well to keep power cords and signal cables from touching the floor.  It's more of a good hygiene step though I think the more that one sweats the small stuff the more this will matter.  There are other things that should be done before this.  Like for example, swapping out the AC outlet that feeds one's system.  If one is still using a builder-grade outlet, I think you will be stunned by how much even a $50 audiophile outlet can bring.


----------



## kennyb123

Clive101 said:


> Firstly, without question, streaming sounds better than local files on both the K50 and Oladra with the AfterDark switch, I flipped back and forth between Qobuz and the same file on the SSD (Roon gives you the option of different versions).


Wow, that I wasn't expecting.  



Clive101 said:


> Even on SSD with the AfterDark there is an improvement.


Wild, huh?



Clive101 said:


> More to follow next week


Thanks for entire report you shared.  I'm glad this is all working out well for you.


----------



## andrewd01

Clive101 said:


> Looking at the cable lifters well made for approx £28.00 each not too bad. I did read somewhere lifting cables made a difference because of touching a surface electromagnetic force of some type.
> I am not sure and not done an AB with cables lifters but could make a difference perhaps with a vibrating floor perhaps?
> I have not tried the Jcat but tried a few switches a while ago, one degraded SQ.
> I tried a Melco S100 (AKA Dela100) a few years ago but the benefit in my system at the time was marginal (perhaps the CX EX had more filtering effect) so just moved on.
> I am thinking of sending the AfterDark to another well know member to see if they have a similar view.


Yes maybe I was bit harsh about the lifters.  I see they are £116 for a box of four - when I first saw them on the web site I thought that was the price for each lifter.  

I can understand that there is some technical justification for getting the cables off the floor, but what makes me cringe is when the lifters are made from exotic materials with all sorts of pseudo-scientific claims and a silly price.  I have python-like cables myself (Kimber 3035) and have thought about getting some lifters 3D printed to get the cables off the floor. Would probably cost about £30 for a full set of lifters.


----------



## andrewd01

An example of foo cable lifters at £320 each!!

https://www.futureshop.co.uk/furute...e4-0f54a_pe8JYb3eHwh_bzpni5Di0XBoCqEwQAvD_BwE

’NCF is comprised of a special crystalline material that has two “active” properties. First, it generates negative ions that eliminate static and secondly, it converts thermal energy into far-infrared. Furutech then combines this remarkable crystalline material with nano-sized ceramic particles and carbon powder for their additional “Piezo Effect” damping properties. The resulting Nano Crystal Formula is the ultimate electrical and mechanical damping material.’


----------



## kennyb123

andrewd01 said:


> An example of foo cable lifters at £320 each!!
> 
> https://www.futureshop.co.uk/furute...e4-0f54a_pe8JYb3eHwh_bzpni5Di0XBoCqEwQAvD_BwE
> 
> ’NCF is comprised of a special crystalline material that has two “active” properties. First, it generates negative ions that eliminate static and secondly, it converts thermal energy into far-infrared. Furutech then combines this remarkable crystalline material with nano-sized ceramic particles and carbon powder for their additional “Piezo Effect” damping properties. The resulting Nano Crystal Formula is the ultimate electrical and mechanical damping material.’


It may sound far fetched but nothing described defies science.  It is most certainly possible to create a material that has these properties. 

While NCF has many fans, there are some that don’t appreciate the result.  The same is true of Synergistic’s UEF compound.


----------



## Progisus

Audiophile fuses are the outer limits of snake oil. Especially when someone attaches them to the wires with tie wraps and no electrical connections. BUT… if it sounds better to the purchaser, mission accomplished.


----------



## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> Audiophile fuses are the outer limits of snake oil. Especially when someone attaches them to the wires with tie wraps and no electrical connections. BUT… if it sounds better to the purchaser, mission accomplished.



I know that I don’t have enough information to declare them to be at the outer limits of snake oil.  Since Synergistic hasn’t disclosed much, I’m not sure any of us can.  

Last week I had skimmed through Shunyata’s patent for what became their TAP module.  The confirms for me that there is can be merit to manipulating the EM field around a conductor.  

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20180183227A1/en?inventor=Caelin+Gabriel


----------



## 7ryder

Clive101 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I had a day with the Oladra and the AfterDark Switch (fully loaded, fiber, in from a noisy 20 port poe network switch, ethernet out to server) SJ DC1.
> 
> ...


I have the Pink Faun version of the S100 and experienced the same improvement in my system. Frankly, it made more of an impact than adding the K50 later on.


----------



## kennyb123

7ryder said:


> Frankly, it made more of an impact than adding the K50 later on.


That’s really saying something.


----------



## 7ryder

kennyb123 said:


> That’s really saying something.


I had the switch in my system and was demoing an Innuous Statement and, later, the K50. In both cases, taking the switch out of my system down graded the sound more than adding either server. At that time I was using a SGC i7 server. I ended up getting the K50 after my SGC couldn't be upgraded to WIN 11.


----------



## F208Frank (Oct 29, 2022)

K50 for sale if anyone is interested.

MINT, with receipt from athorized dealer, under 7 months old.

Unboxed, set on desk, never moved since.

PM if interested, prefer local pick up in NY at my residence.


----------



## vgmbpty

Regarding using switches, I used to have fiber with Finisar SFPs going into SOtM SNH10g fully upgraded + Hypsos Power Supply + AfterDark Emperor 2 crown clock + Ether Regen + LPSU + A/D external clock,  an ENO Acoustic filter before entering the streamer,  all of these were inferior to the sound I get from the fiber and SFP going into the new Melco S10 switch (latest version), streaming Qobuz.

I have yet to compare the current Melco N10 vs the Oladra (Waiting for arrival for testing). However, I can tell you that in spite of having the best internet switch and cables I could afford, still playing a local file from the Melco N10 (latest version) will sound a bit better than streaming the same file from Qobuz in my system (Melco S10, Melco N10, Verity Audio Monsalvat Pre-2, MBL N15 monoblocks, MBL 116 speakers).  

These results remained consistent if I used the Melco or an Innuos Zenith to stream from Qobuz.  Some network Ph.D. that happens to be an audiophile once told me "The best network is no network".  Go figure.


----------



## kennyb123

vgmbpty said:


> I have yet to compare the current Melco N10 vs the Oladra (Waiting for arrival for testing). However, I can tell you that in spite of having the best internet switch and cables I could afford, still playing a local file from the Melco N10 (latest version) will sound a bit better than streaming the same file from Qobuz in my system


I have drawn the line at going much further with network optimization in favor of focusing on local playback.  I must admit though that I am intentionally trying to avoid knowing what I might be missing out on.  My bank account can't handle the truth.


----------



## naynay (Nov 6, 2022)

Any one playing there PGGB files 768/1024/24bit from there server USB but going through M Scaler to Dave dual BNC? Have not played or messed around with this in a long time so have a bit of brain freeze. When I use Squeeze to play the PGGB files they sound like they are playing in slow motion time? Have I not set something correctly?


----------



## naynay

.


----------



## Progisus (Nov 6, 2022)

naynay said:


> Any one playing there PGGB files 768/1024/24bit from there server USB but going through M Scaler to Dave dual BNC? Have not played or messed around with this in a long time so have a bit of brain freeze. When I use Squeeze to play the PGGB files they sound like they are playing in slow motion time? Have I not set something correctly?


Hi… make sure you have C-3PO enabled for your player.






When playing PGGB through mscaler it will bypass but reduce volume by 3db and may apply some noise shaping. It still sounds very good.


----------



## naynay

Progisus said:


> Hi… make sure you have C-3PO enabled for your player.
> 
> 
> 
> When playing PGGB through mscaler it will bypass but reduce volume by 3db and may apply some noise shaping. It still sounds very good.


I looked in those settings but no option for C-3PO


----------



## Progisus

naynay said:


> I looked in those settings but no option for C-3PO


Try clicking library > basic settings drop down > select C-3PO from plugins. Then setup from player settings


----------



## naynay

That fixed it. Thanks a lot for the help much appreciated.


----------



## Whazzzup

Amsv4 update easy peasy on my DX bye the bye. Yea antipodes. Took 20 seconds and a click on the solution page to activate roon.


----------



## F208Frank (Nov 9, 2022)

The update was pretty painless overall, customer support with Mark is always a pleasure. I also love how the new update made everything so clean in terms of how the solution dashboard is presented, absolutely wonderful.

Good job Antipodes, seriously.

Praises due are praises due.


----------



## F208Frank (Nov 12, 2022)

Anyone else using HDMI to connect to DAC with background hissing noise?

I have isolated everything (power cord, ethernet cord, dac, the dip switches to be compatible to DAC, the actual HDMI cable itself) and it seems to be the actual K50 HDMI causing this for me, AES and USB have no background noise whatsoever.


----------



## kennyb123

F208Frank said:


> Anyone else using HDMI to connect to DAC with background hissing noise?


I have tried HDMI, but no hissing.  It was a Nordost Blue Heaven.


----------



## F208Frank

I still am dealing with the HDMI background noise issue at moment, but on a lighter note, does anyone feel that when using AES on the K50 a lot of resolution is lost versus when using the HDMI?

Despite the hissing/background noise when music is not playing, I still prefer the HDMI option as the AES sounds "too smooth" given my own chain, anyone else feel or experience the same?


----------



## Clive101

Hello All
Just thought you all should know I have part exchanged the K50 for the Oladra.
A very short version of SQ, more detailed no fatigue and relaxed.
Demo at your own risk.
With the added AfterDark network switch and Finisar modules sublime SQ streamed Qubuz sounds better than local SSD...!


----------



## Triode User

Clive101 said:


> Hello All
> Just thought you all should know I have part exchanged the K50 for the Oladra.
> A very short version of SQ, more detailed no fatigue and relaxed.
> Demo at your own risk.
> With the added AfterDark network switch and Finisar modules sublime SQ streamed Qubuz sounds better than local SSD...!



I was very lucky to have Clive bring the Oladra he was trialling to let me hear it in my system up against my K50 and using the BNC output from both of them into an Mscaler connected to Dave and that was outputting through my ATC 150 active speakers. 

I normally use Squeeze server and Squeezelite player but for the day when Clive visited we used Roon Server and Squeezelite Player, mainly for ease of use. We were of course using my Wave bnc cables but Clive already uses them in his own system, he and I having separately concluded that we prefer the inbuilt BNC output from the K50 rather than any of the others. So that was a common denominator between our systems and it probably helped Clive to tune into the sound of my system.

It is my unfortunate task to confirm Clive‘s summary of the Oladra sound quality. I have no idea how it does it but it is simply better than the K50 in all the ways that he describes. This is taking nothing away from the K50 because that is still an absolute triumph of sound quality but somehow the Oladra surpasses the K50 and I can quite see why Clive had traded his K50 and bought the Oladra. Clive is a lucky bunny.


----------



## kennyb123

Triode User said:


> I was very lucky to have Clive bring the Oladra he was trialling to let me hear it in my system up against my K50 and using the BNC output from both of them into an Mscaler connected to Dave and that was outputting through my ATC 150 active speakers.


Great that you two are able to meet up for listening.  Any chance you might one day be able to compare your PhoenixNET to his AfterDark switch?



Triode User said:


> It is my unfortunate task to confirm Clive‘s summary of the Oladra sound quality. I have no idea how it does it but it is simply better than the K50 in all the ways that he describes. This is taking nothing away from the K50 because that is still an absolute triumph of sound quality but somehow the Oladra surpasses the K50 and I can quite see why Clive had traded his K50 and bought the Oladra. Clive is a lucky bunny.



He sure is!  It’s interesting to me that Clive concluded that it has “no fatigue and relaxed”. This shows that SMPSs can be truly excellent if done right. 

@Clive101 any chance you could post a pic of your new server?


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## 7ryder

kennyb123 said:


> Great that you two are able to meet up for listening.  Any chance you might one day be able to compare your PhoenixNET to his AfterDark switch?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As I think you know, Linn has used SMPSs in their amps and streamers for years which confirms that, done right, they are as good as, or better, than the best LPSs.


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## kennyb123

7ryder said:


> As I think you know, Linn has used SMPSs in their amps and streamers for years which confirms that, done right, they are as good as, or better, than the best LPSs.


Thanks for the reminder.  “If done right” certainly applies to Linn too.

I wonder if a future K series upgrade will bring them some form of these SMPSs.


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## Triode User

kennyb123 said:


> Great that you two are able to meet up for listening. Any chance you might one day be able to compare your PhoenixNET to his AfterDark switch?



Well we sort of did compare in the sense that we had both in the system and we did switch in and out but they were not the main focus of the day which was to compare the K50 and Oladra, therefore I would say there is no firm conclusion on the switches. On the other hand Clive might equally say that he heard nothing to dissuade him from thinking that his AfterDark switch is better! What was interesting was that with the Oladra and AfterDark switch Clive felt that Qobuz streamed music was better than the same files locally stored on SSD in the Oladra. I could hear the difference but I was less sure which was better and would want more extended listening.

Things got a bit messy as we were swopping in and out but this is a quick snap shot I took on the day annotated to show what was what.


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## Clive101 (Nov 20, 2022)

@kennyb123
I found the AfterDark S100 to have tighter bass, better texture, better attack and a cleaner sound than the PhoenixNET
I found the bass more boomy with the PhoenixNet.
Streaming (for me) was better than SSD with the AfterDark switch, whereas SSD was better than streaming with the PhoenixNet.
For me streaming and SSD was improved more with the AfterDark both on both our systems and I much preferred the AfterDark than PhoenixNet.
In my own system (Finisar fiber modules) and with different amps, speakers and room size I much prefer fiber connection as I found ethernet muddy by "comparison" on my own system, but some may prefer ethernet.

I will ask Nick @Triode User he wishes to have a few weeks with the AfterDark in the new year for a more detailed listen.....


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## Whazzzup

AMSV4.1 is out as an FYI


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## kennyb123 (Nov 20, 2022)

Clive101 said:


> @kennyb123
> I found the AfterDark S100 to have tighter bass, better texture, better attack and a cleaner sound than the PhoenixNET
> I found the bass more boomy with the PhoenixNet.
> Streaming (for me) was better than SSD with the AfterDark switch, whereas SSD was better than streaming with the PhoenixNet.
> ...


Your systems appear to both be finely tuned for your own preferences.  I can see preferring one switch in one and another switch in another.  It would be an interesting comparison nonetheless.  Thanks for sharing your observations.

I have fiber now so the AfterDark switch might be a better fit.  Would you post a link to this switch again?  I can't seem to find it on their site.  Nick's post refers to a Dela S100.  So is this it?  https://www.adark.co/products/dela-s100-audiophile-network-hubs?_pos=1&_sid=8841754d5&_ss=r.  If so, it seems they recommend connecting audio gear to the 100mbs.  Is that what you do?


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## kennyb123

Triode User said:


> Things got a bit messy as we were swopping in and out but this is a quick snap shot I took on the day annotated to show what was what.


Thanks for sharing the photo.  That Oladra sure does look nice.  I hope you will find a proper stand to set yours on.  Just not right to place such a beautiful component on the floor.  

In all seriousness, experiment with placing some bamboo cutting boards under your components.  Affordable and effective.

If you like what you hear then maybe consider a Quadraspire rack with bamboo shelves.  I think you'd be surprised with the additional clarity this will bring.


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## andrewd01

Those ARC6’s are monsters!

Thanks for reporting from the cutting edge.  Good news for the guys one or two generations of technology back.  Looks like two barely run in K50’s on the used market


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## Whazzzup (Nov 21, 2022)

Oladra mmmmmm. From my cold dead hands tho. )


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## F208Frank (Nov 21, 2022)

andrewd01 said:


> Those ARC6’s are monsters!
> 
> Thanks for reporting from the cutting edge.  Good news for the guys one or two generations of technology back.  Looks like two barely run in K50’s on the used market


How much are the barely used run in K50s and where? I see two on Audiogon, are those the ones you are referring to?


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## andrewd01 (Nov 22, 2022)

F208Frank said:


> How much are the barely used run in K50s and where? I see two on Audiogon, are those the ones you are referring to?


I am in UK (need to update my profile). The dealer I use is Elite Audio.  I bought my CX and EX there when they were less than two years old for about half retail price with warranty. There is currently one K50 rev2 (Clive’s?) there for £11500, full retail price £17500. Recently saw K50 rev1 for £7500 and K30 around £5k, but those have sold.

I am not in the position to upgrade now, but good to know there is a regular turnover in the used market. Antipodes is helping us out by releasing new statement products every two years


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## andrewd01 (Nov 24, 2022)

Has anyone had any issues with HQ Player/Roon on 4.1?  I am getting ‘playback failed because Roon couldn’t connect to HQ Player’ error.

I can’t find any obvious reason for this in the settings.  License valid, output device correct etc.


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## Progisus

andrewd01 said:


> Has anyone had any issues with HQ Player/Roon on 4.1?  I am getting ‘playback failed because Roon couldn’t connect to HQ Player’ error.
> 
> I can’t find any obvious reason for this in the settings.  License valid, output device correct etc.


Go into the server dashboard and restart hqplayer. Then go to player dashboard and restart the hqplayer naa. That worked for me.


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## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> Go into the server dashboard and restart hqplayer. Then go to player dashboard and restart the hqplayer naa. That worked for me.


Sometimes you have to just save the configuration again so it can properly recognize the NAA.


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## Triode User

So tantalizingly close but so far. The Oladra now has to go up to the dealer in Scotland before coming back down to me in the East Midlands.


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## Whazzzup




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## Triode User

Oladra just arrived and warming up.


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## F208Frank

Triode User said:


> Oladra just arrived and warming up.


looking forward to honest impressions.


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## Triode User

Today I had a bit of free time and listened to my new Oladra.

When @Clive101 brought his Oladra to my house to compare to my K50 we listened with Roon and Squeezelite so that is what I tried today with my Oladra. I have to be honest that the Oladra was beyond the sound that I remembered and I absolutely loved it!!

But then I tried what Clive and I did not try when he came to visit. I swopped to using Squeeze server and Squeeze player.

Oh my goodness. That sound is really something special with the Oladra. I have NEVER heard my system sound so good.

Roon and Squeezelite on the Oladra is very very good but Squeeze and Squeeze is a different world.

I cannot thank Clive enough for leading me astray by letting me hear his Oladra.

The two tracks and albums I listened to in order to compare Roon and Squeeze server on the Oladra were these. I first came across the tracks when watching a live stream video by Alpha Audio. They sounded great on the K50 but absolutely entrancing on the Oladra.


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## Whazzzup

Great to hear and of course more details over time but again. You can try and pry my dx3


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## Triode User

.


Whazzzup said:


> Great to hear and of course more details over time but again. You can try and pry my dx3


I would not dare to even think about trying to pry anything from your hands. You are one of the reasons that I became interested in Antipodes so I have to thank you for that.


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## kennyb123

Triode User said:


> You are one of the reasons that I became interested in Antipodes so I have to thank you for that.


He did that for me too.


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## Progisus

Triode User said:


> .
> 
> I would not dare to even think about trying to pry anything from your hands. You are one of the reasons that I became interested in Antipodes so I have to thank you for that.


Same here.


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## Clive101

Triode User said:


> .
> 
> I would not dare to even think about trying to pry anything from your hands. You are one of the reasons that I became interested in Antipodes so I have to thank you for that.


Same here


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## Whazzzup




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## Whazzzup

Seriously tho, id give my left nut for Oladra probably, but checked google canada and it will just take 30 G CAD at noteworthy audio, i guess you have to pop on 4 G tax but you get free shipping. Times when i hooked into antipodes in 2017 was a simpler time. Please tell me oladra stories, but it is to dream...


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## kennyb123

Triode User said:


> Roon and Squeezelite on the Oladra is very very good but Squeeze and Squeeze is a different world.


Not at all surprising to read this.  I would guess that Squeeze distances itself even further from the alternatives on the Oladra than on the K50. Is that what you are finding?


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## Triode User

kennyb123 said:


> Not at all surprising to read this.  I would guess that Squeeze distances itself even further from the alternatives on the Oladra than on the K50. Is that what you are finding?



Yes that is the case. I was sort of wondering whether Roon + Squeezelite might sound better on the Oladra (and be good enough to ‘put up with’) and the answer is that in many ways it does but my goodness, Squeeze + Sqeezelite on the Oladra opens up the gap even further.

Although having just typed this I remember that with Roon on my K50 I went through its settings and tried to replicate what settings the Grimm MU1 uses for Roon and I have not yet tried to do that on the Oladra.


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## Progisus

Triode User said:


> replicate what settings the Grimm MU1 uses for Roon


Are these settings published anywhere. I would love to try them. I am a believer that you can change the sound in Roon. I am using roon/squeeze at present for it’s quick start/stop when changing tunes. I still prefer the roon/hqplayer sound. Both played to mscaler.


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## F208Frank

Same here. (Seriously)


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## td19

The MU1 manual ... page 9?

https://www.grimmaudio.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/Manual-MU1-Software-V1.3.0.pdf


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## Progisus

td19 said:


> The MU1 manual ... page 9?
> 
> https://www.grimmaudio.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/Manual-MU1-Software-V1.3.0.pdf


Thank you… I didn’t see anything special but I may have missed it.


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## Presence (Dec 19, 2022)

*EX Operating Temperature *now displayed via AMS v4.2

Can anyone share the operating temperature and CPU usage of their EX?

My CX and EX are running at very low CPU usage but according to the temperature readings, the EX runs significantly hotter than the CX -
86 degrees F [CX] vs. >120 degrees F [EX].
With CX and EX sitting side by side and unobstructed, touching the fairly cool outer enclosure of either unit does not indicate [to me] the disparity between temperature readings.
If I could get a few user data points, maybe I can determine whether this is typical or not. Still awaiting comment from Mark Cole.


*CX Screen*






*EX Screen*




Thank you.

Rich


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## Progisus

Presence said:


> Can anyone share the operating temperature and CPU usage of their EX?



My EX running naa:


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## Presence

Progisus said:


> My EX running naa:


Thanks for the screen shot...
My EX dynamically reads between 45C to 51C. I must have captured a momentary high of 53C.
Looks like we're in the same ballpark.


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## Whazzzup

for what its worth my DX3 is at 50-53 And new 4.2 is available


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## Presence

Whazzzup said:


> for what its worth my DX3 is at 50-53 And new 4.2 is available


Thanks for the feedback.
Despite the common temperature readings between another EX and your DX3, and not being familiar with processor HW temperature operation, it still remains notable to me that there is a >30 degree F difference between my CX and EX. 
I can only assume that with the more powerful CX processor, it is idling along temperature-wise at its 9% CPU usage compared to the less powerful EX at 3% usage. 
I dunno.


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## Progisus

Presence said:


> Thanks for the feedback.
> Despite the common temperature readings between another EX and your DX3, and not being familiar with processor HW temperature operation, it still remains notable to me that there is a >30 degree F difference between my CX and EX.
> I can only assume that with the more powerful CX processor, it is idling along temperature-wise at its 9% CPU usage compared to the less powerful EX at 3% usage.
> I dunno.


I believe the CX is liquid cooled while the EX has just fins.


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## Presence

Progisus said:


> I believe the CX is liquid cooled while the EX has just fins.


Thanks for the feedback.
That all adds up to me. 
Also, just heard from Mark who specified his OLADRA at 39C and DX3 at 55C. 
Just wanted to make sure long-term reliability of my EX would not be shortened if the temperature was higher than normal.


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## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> I believe the CX is liquid cooled while the EX has just fins.


Wow - that certainly would explain why it runs so cool.  The K50 with no music playing is now at 41C (player) and 45C (server).


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## Progisus

kennyb123 said:


> Wow - that certainly would explain why it runs so cool.  The K50 with no music playing is now at 41C (player) and 45C (server).


Have you upgraded to the K50? Your sig still shows the K30.


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## MultiplexMan

https://6moons.com/wp-content/uploads/audioreviews/antipodes/7.jpg

https://6moons.com/wp-content/uploads/audioreviews/antipodes/6.jpg

CX has a copper heat pipe - pictures from 6moons


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## kennyb123

Progisus said:


> Have you upgraded to the K50? Your sig still shows the K30.


Nothing new to report there yet.


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## Whazzzup

I’m gripping my dx3 as you all know


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## naynay (Dec 27, 2022)

How do I disable the up sample in squeeze, I have read where you change a setting in the plugin C-3PO. Looked in there but not sure what the setting is called that needs changing?

Update I have found the setting so all good now.


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## kennyb123

naynay said:


> Looked in there but not sure what the setting is called that needs changing?


Removing the plug-in would be the easiest path to disabling upsampling.  Go to plugins and uncheck it.


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## naynay (Dec 27, 2022)

kennyb123 said:


> Removing the plug-in would be the easiest path to disabling upsampling.  Go to plugins and uncheck it.


I found the way to disable upsampling and keep plugin C-3PO active so I can play PGGB files.
Not sure why the settings had changed to upsample the files, maybe it was to do with the latest update from Antipodes.


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## Progisus

naynay said:


> I found the way to disable upsampling and keep plugin C-3PO active so I can play PGGB files.
> Not sure why the settings had changed to upsample the files, maybe it was to do with the latest update from Antipodes.


That is why I seldom use lms server. I am never sure what it is doing to my files. I normally use Roon/Hqplayer in K30 server to K30 squeeze player and naa in the EX for PGGB.


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## kennyb123

naynay said:


> I found the way to disable upsampling and keep plugin C-3PO active so I can play PGGB files.


Ah you didn’t mention that you wanted to keep it but prevent it from resampling.  Glad you found it.


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