# Compared: Headamp Pico, Ray Samuels Hornet, Apogee MiniDAC



## Iron_Dreamer

In order to sufficiently inaugurate my newly minted Headamp Pico, I figured what better than a battle with my primary standby of most of the last year, the Apogee MiniDAC? And to make things even better, a popular portable headphone amp, the Ray Samuels Hornet, has emerged from a generous friend, to give the Pico a more similar headphone amp competitor.














 For clarity's sake, I compared the three components, in the following configurations, with the last item in any given chain acting as the headphone amp:

 1) USB -> Pico
 2) USB -> Pico -> Hornet (Pico set to low gain, volume pot maxed out)
 3) USB -> Apogee
 4) USB -> Apogee -> Pico (Apogee 1/8" fixed-level output)
 5) USB -> Apogee -> Hornet ("...")

 Obviously, this presents several possible relevant comparisons: 1 vs. 3 (USB DAC/amp combos); 1 vs. 2 (micro-comparison of portable amps); 3 vs. 4 vs. 5 (headphone amps only); and 1/2 vs. 4/5 (DAC comparison). I used all of these comparisons to arrive at conclusions on the sound quality of all three.

 The Pico in question had a good week of solid runtime before the comparison began. The Hornet in question is an original (non-M) and has had many hundreds of hours of use over the last couple years, according to its’ owner.

 All listening was done using Foobar2000 v0.8.3, with ASIO output to both DACs, playing a wide variety of FLAC files. Most listening was done with Audio-Technica L3000's, and the remainder with Shure E500's (SE530's). Hiss or noise was absent from all three units at my normal listening levels.


*DAC Performance:*

 The DAC sections of the Apogee and Pico are relatively similar from a design standpoint, as they both upsample, use high-end DAC chips, and have opamp-based output stages. The Pico differs itself by directly converting the incoming USB data to the I2S format, whereas the Apogee's chipset sends out an intermediate SPDIF signal. In theory, this means that the Pico will have significantly less, if not zero, jitter on the incoming data stream as it enters the upsampling chip.

 Given the Pico's diminutive nature, both in size and price, one might think it would be a feat for it to play on the same level of sound quality as the MiniDAC; however I feel the Pico outperforms it in several key areas.

 The Pico presents detail in a tighter, more self-contained manner, which many might call "more refined." Quite simply, individual instruments or sounds are easier to separate from others in a given piece, and hence images are more well defined within the soundstage. Sometimes I feel that this gives the Pico a more analytical sound, as it is easier to mentally pick apart the sound into the sum of its' parts.

 That is not to say the Pico is less involving to listen to, if anything, the opposite is true. The oft-used, but nebulous, "PRat" comes into play here. The truth is that the Pico provides a more involving, groovy, insert-corny-adjective-here listening experience. This is undoubtedly due to bass which is presented in a tighter, punchier way than from the Apogee, whose bass sounds slightly muddy or blurred by comparison. Whether the direct I2S conversion and jitter-related theoretical advantages are responsible for this difference, I suppose only the electrical gremlins know for sure.

 When the MiniDAC is powered by its' standard switching power supply, it has a bit of grain or grit to the high end, reminiscent of the Benchmark DAC1 I once owned. By comparison, the Pico is perhaps the smoothest sounding of sub-$2K DACs that I have heard. However, when powered by the Sigma-11 discrete linear power supply, the MiniDAC is substantially smoother sounding in the highs, and much closer to the Pico in this regard.

 Taking a step back, and looking at the big picture, the MiniDAC and Pico provide two moderately differing perspectives on the music they play. The Pico is generally a more enegetic, involving, and close-feeling sound, whereas the Apogee sounds a bit more diffuse, relaxed, and "speaker-like" if you will. I know some might draw the seemingly inevitable Sennheiser vs. Grado analogy here, which while somewhat apt, is also a bit fraught with peril, as the differences at play here are much more subtle than those found when comparing an SR225 to an HD600 (which is typically the case when comparing DACs).


*Amp Performance:*

 Upon entering the Hornet into the thus-far DAC based battle, it was clear that a new sound flavor had entered the arena. The difference between the three as headphone amps is a bit more significant and immediately noticeable than the difference between the two DACs.

 The Hornet is most immediately different in its’ presentation, which includes more prominence in the upper midrange and mid to upper bass. The midrange difference generally brings vocals, especially female vocals to the forefront, which can be either a blessing or a curse. For gentle, delicate sounding music, this vocal emphasis can bring out a singer otherwise buried under over mixed instruments. However, recordings with a preexisting vocal emphasis can become overbearing. This is particularly the case with more aggressive music. When a vocalist hits just the right note within the midrange peak of the Hornet, it can be quite grating.

 The Hornet’s bass emphasis gives it the most noticeable bass of the group, however it is not as clean or snappy sounding as the Pico’s bass. The Hornet does has a better defined bass than the MiniDAC, whose headphone amp takes the slight muddiness of the DAC section and bumps it up a notch. Bass lines which can be blurred through the MiniDAC headphone amp come out more discernable from the Hornet, and precisely from the Pico. Upon first listen, the MiniDAC sounds bassier than the Pico, until one realizes it is due to the near omnipresence of bass by comparison to the Pico’s more accurately fluctuations tracking the music.

 Aside from the bass issue, the MiniDAC’s headphone amp also continues the theme of further indulging the minor colorations of the DAC. The presentation becomes a bit more diffuse and relaxed, to the point where it sounds quite different from the Pico or Hornet, both of which are more upfront and energetic. Perhaps this is the spring from whence the Apogee’s reputation has arisen. The highs are noticeably rolled off by comparison to the Pico, and slightly by comparison to the Hornet. The MiniDAC’s soundstage is more spread out from left to right, but less pinpoint, giving the impression more of a venue than a set of headphones.


*Conclusion:*

 The Headamp Pico quite intrigued me upon my first listen to a prototype, several Head-Fi meets ago. That intrigue has grown into true appreciation, as it is not very often that a product comes along which offers sound quality rivaling both studio-quality DAC units and well-respected headphone amps, in a tiny portable package with advanced li-on battery life, and incredible fit and finish to boot. At this point I feel it offers an unparalleled objective sound quality performance, for its’ use, as can be examined through RMAA tests floating around the ‘net.

 But of course, sound quality is very much an objective field as well, and the Pico is quite pleasing to me in this regard as well. It offers the clearest window onto the music of this field, and the result is a sound that is exciting and involving, yet precise. It is the kind of sound that is hard to ignore, or to allow drifting off into the background, which suits my preferences very well. However, it is here that some might prefer the differing flavors offered by the other devices.

 While I feel the Apogee Mini-DAC is not quite the performer the Pico is, whether as a DAC or a headphone amp, it does offer quite a different listening perspective, and one that is well-known for pairing well with brighter or more upfront sounding headphones. If one prefers this perspective, one more of observer than performer, or relaxing than rocking, the advantages of the Pico might be negated.

 The Ray Samuels Hornet also offers an opposing view of sound presentation, and a more distinct flavor than the other two. When listening to the Hornet, one is hard pressed to forget he is listening to the Hornet, as its’ sound signature is a constant companion. It is up to the listener, and his associated equipment, to determine whether or not this is a boon. I would advise to pair the Hornet gear possessing accurate or tight bass (as it sounded better paired with the Pico DAC than the Apogee) and to avoid equipment which might further accentuate the upper midrange (like most recent Grados, or A-T W1000’s). The Hornet does produce a more textured bass and more extended treble than the MiniDAC’s headphone amp can muster. Thus while not the utmost objective performer, I feel the Hornet’s make-or-break point for most will be that of sound signature.


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## ast

OK, I'm getting a PICO! 




 ...


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## TheMarchingMule

Heck yes, thank you for the comparison review!

 Now I'm even more proud that I chose to sell my Hornet in preparation of a Pico!


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## Patu

Your comparisons are always a pleasure to read. Thanks.

 It seems that Pico is a real killer.


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## Blackmore

Thanks for your review. Just received Go-Vibe PETITE DAC myself and looking at the price tag, PETITE DAC vs PICO DAC, it is like more than 2x from what Petite cost.

 Petite DAC USD 195 worldwide shipping included

 Pico DAC USD 499, not sure about shipping.

 Is there any chance that you can compare them please. Would be very nice, not only because of the price, but performances as well.

 THX


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## slwiser

I also may have to place that order even though I have the Xin Reference and no Notebook computer. Still thinking though...I heard an early version and agree that the Pico is has something very special going for it.

 One question though were you using the Pico as a pre-amp for the Samual amps? or does the Pico's DAC have a direct output connection. Just for clarification? With the miniDAC was the DAC straight out into the Pico or was it acting as a pre-amp as well?

 Thanks for another great review.


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## Dorito123

Thanks for the nice review, it was a very good read.

 By the way, is there a website for Go-Vibe?


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## johnsonad

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ast* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK, I'm getting a PICO! 




 ..._

 

Hahahaha! You can compare it against my Predator if you like Abe. I would like to hear the Pico myself


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## ecclesand

Thanks for the comparison Iron_Dreamer. I highly value your opinion as well as your taste in music and it was a couple of your reviews of headphones on headphonereviews.org that motivated me to buy the DT990 and SA5000...both of which I really enjoy. I have been following the threads on the Pico both here and it's getting much praise. Would you be happy with the Pico as your only DAC and Amp?


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## Orcin

Great job as usual, Iron Dreamer!

 What is this Pico you speak of?

 *goes back into blissful hibernation with hand over wallet pocket*


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## GreatDane

Very nice job I_D. Thanks for the pics.


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## Asr

Your reviews are always a fascinating read. So will you be abdicating the Mini-DAC in favor of the Pico?


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## Andrew_WOT

Thumbs up review, as usual.
 Curious if you had a chance to compare it against your Stello.


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## Iron_Dreamer

Let it be noted that I've amended the initial post with some crucial info about the listening arrangements, that I foolishly omitted in my late-night scrawl session yesterday. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Blackmore* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Petite DAC USD 195 worldwide shipping included

 Is there any chance that you can compare them please._

 

If somebody sends me one, I'd be ready and willing to review it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slwiser* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One question though were you using the Pico as a pre-amp for the Samual amps? or does the Pico's DAC have a direct output connection. Just for clarification? With the miniDAC was the DAC straight out into the Pico or was it acting as a pre-amp as well?_

 

The Pico doesn't have a line-output. I used low gain mode (for the lowest possible noise), and maxed the volume pot, so as to simulate no attenuation, when I had it connected to the Hornet. The rest of your answers can be found in my edits to the original post.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would you be happy with the Pico as your only DAC and Amp?_

 

In terms of sound quality, certainly! It functions as a DAC well beyond its' price-point, and to an extent that would take thousands of dollars to significantly leapfrog. The headphone amp is certainly well suited to the headphones I favor at the moment (can't really speak for uber-demanding cans like K701's), and would also require large investment to significantly better. For price to performance, the Pico is the best I've heard, as a one-piece rig. Where it falls short compared to devices like the MiniDAC, DAC1, et al. is features. But if you can live with USB and analog inputs, along with a single headphone output, you're golden.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Andrew_WOT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thumbs up review, as usual.
 Curious if you had a chance to compare it against your Stello._

 

I would only be able to compare it via memory, as I sold the DA220 and DA100 some time ago. You might pester Edwood for a direct comparison, as he owns both a Pico and DA220, and I _KNOW_ he's compared them


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## Andrew_WOT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Iron_Dreamer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 The Pico doesn't have a line-output. I used low gain mode (for the lowest possible noise), and maxed the volume pot, so as to simulate no attenuation, when I had it connected to the Hornet._

 

Isn't that a bit high, Pico has low gain of 2? With external amps I set it to 2 o'clock, that makes it output roughly the same as a standard line-out.


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## achristilaw

I remember reading your meet impression. And when you claimed Pico superiority. I took notice. You have blessed ears Sir. Good Mini-shootout.
 And even better observations. Nice review!!


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## 909

superb review! thanks for sharing your well-formed opinion. it's always a 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 read.

 pico resistance is futile


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## melomaniac

hm... thanks for these comments on those three gadgets. I had the Apogee but never really liked it, and my TH is no Hornet. still, I'm on the wait-list for a Pico now, and happy to read here why.


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## nnotis

It's always a pleasure to read your very well written reviews Iron Dreamer.


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## Downer

Great review, just what I was looking for...


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## pageman99

Edwood???????????????????!!!!

 BTW, my 2nd hand Pico should be here saturday. 

 This scrap of a post should function as a bump to all of you folks who have both a Pico AND a top of the line non-portable system. 

 Do you all agree with IronDreamer? Or was he too far into his cache of mind altering substances?


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## ast

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnsonad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hahahaha! You can compare it against my Predator if you like Abe. I would like to hear the Pico myself 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Would love to, Aaron! All the other gears you've been accumulating are really tempting. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just put myself on the PICO pre-order list, don't how long I will be waiting, most likely a long one.


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## soundfreq

thanks for the review, as this would be a good reference once my pico arrives and compare it to my current portable amp which is the hornet


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## pageman99

OK, got my Pico this morning.

 Plugged the cable into my laptop, Vista recognized it. Windows media player (running lossless) saw it. Clicked on one of my favorite albums, voila, instant joy.

 Using UM2's, HD650's or Edition 9's, doesn't matter, this tiny powerhouse performs as advertised.

 I won't go into great detail, but basically, I'm listening to the future of music. Iron_Dreamer's review won't get any dissent from me. 

 The Pico can't quite keep up with my big iron (see my sig), but it is close enough, it's almost scary.

 BTW, there is no issue with bass on the E9's (as another had posted, perhaps in another thread), at least to my ears. Some albums the bass is a little fuzzy, but that, IMO is because that's the way it is on the recording. When the recording is right, the bass is right. As for highs, cymbals simply shimmer. Voices are excellent, with character and bite. Mind you the Pico is not broken in yet and there is sibilance on certail early poorly recorded albums (meaning Beatles).

 I can pick up a tiny bit of tube like smearing, because of the upsampling or use of opamps, I couldn't say. On the other hand, instrument placement, sound stage and ability to isolate on individual instruments is right up there with the, oh let's say $1000 dacs. BTW, maybe I shouldn't have said smearing, maybe tube like rounding of edges. 

 Is it perfect? Nah, but what is? Yet, for the price I can't think of anything close, regardless of size. (And no, I haven't heard the Predator. It's simply getting difficult to keep up with the speed of technical progress. What a joyful problem.)

 Bottom line, this little technical marvel lives up to the hype. (goes back to ripping the remaining cd's in his collection)


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## Towert7

Thanks for the info. Always brings a warm feeling when I hear good things coming out from HeadAmp.


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## Edwood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pageman99* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Edwood???????????????????!!!!

 BTW, my 2nd hand Pico should be here saturday. 

 This scrap of a post should function as a bump to all of you folks who have both a Pico AND a top of the line non-portable system. 

 Do you all agree with IronDreamer? Or was he too far into his cache of mind altering substances?_

 

No, that would be me and mind altering substances. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't have the Apogee MiniDAC. I've spent time listening, comparing to my Stello DA220 + Grace m902 setup. The Pico does have a small advantage in the sound quality and detail of it's USB DAC compared to the Stello DA220's DAC.

 However, it's the amplification where the Pico does not compete as well. But that is because of the K1000, which is the widow maker of all portables. And the volume control as well, but we're comparing full sized vs. tiny sized. Not a fair comparison at all.

 Since I plan on migrating to a fully balanced setup, the Pico is not going to get rid of my main rig. But if I were to stay single ended and not have my K1000, my Stello DA220 and Grace m902 would be up for sale right now.

 -Ed


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## ManAtWork

Thanks for this nice comparison, I like the good organized approach it was written.


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## slwiser

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Edwood* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Since I plan on migrating to a fully balanced setup, the Pico is not going to get rid of my main rig. But if I were to stay single ended and not have my K1000, my Stello DA220 and Grace m902 would be up for sale right now.

 -Ed_

 

Oh, never mind...I went the wrong way.


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## Andrew_WOT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Edwood* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ The Pico does have a small advantage in the sound quality and detail of it's USB DAC compared to the Stello DA220's DAC._

 











 You gotta be kidding, I must check my DA100.


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## darkless

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Edwood* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've spent time listening, comparing to my Stello DA220 + Grace m902 setup. The Pico does have a small advantage in the sound quality and detail of it's USB DAC compared to the Stello DA220's DAC._

 

Nice! I need to compare my DA220 MkII with my Pico soon. Edwood, is your DA220 the MkII version?


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## Iron_Dreamer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *darkless* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice! I need to compare my DA220 MkII with my Pico soon. Edwood, is your DA220 the MkII version?_

 

He has the MkI, as I used to.


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## pageman99

Thanks Edwood. I'm glad to hear your thoughts on sound quality are similar to mine and Iron_Dreamer's. I always doubt myself at first when it comes to the FOTM and placebo affect. 

 But I pretty much have to agree with everything Edwood says as far as DAC quality goes, though I can't speak to the Stello as I've never heard one. 

 I haven't spent enough time with the Pico yet, but my original thoughts paralleled his as far as the amp and volume control. Darn good for their size, but not quite absolute tops.

 But, again, not a fair comparison. Size has it's limitations.

 Nonetheless, spatial placement and isolation of individual instruments even after a second and third listening are definitely exceptional, ranking right up in the top tier. But certainly not in the very top with the exotics and uber expensives.

 I'll be checking out the Pico with my son's Ipod soon just for kicks. I'm kinda curious ,though I'm not much of a portable guy. Music is too distracting for use in the real world, at least for me.

 Again, kudos to Justin!


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## Andrew_WOT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Andrew_WOT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Edwood* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
 The Pico does have a small advantage in the sound quality and detail of it's USB DAC compared to the Stello DA220's DAC.

 












 You gotta be kidding, I must check my DA100._

 

Wondering why this reviewer called MicroDAC and Stello DA100 an easy win over Pico?
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/3745641-post3.html
 I spent more than an hour yesterday using two inputs on GS-1, switching between DA100 and Pico. Honestly I cannot tell for sure which one I liked better, Pico is brighter which helps with details accentuation, Stello has more weight and sounds smoother, more analogue, that can also be perceived as diffused. The jury is still on, and I need to give Stello another listen with fresher ears, but based on preliminary results the performance of the Pico's DAC is just stunning. The onboard amp is definitely not a fair match for this jewel. 
 Pico is not desktop amp replacement, it's a desktop DAC replacement. 
 Still befuddled on how this






 can effectively compete with this?






 Hats off to Justin, truly outstanding work.


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## Qosmio

Wow..Sweet..im a pico user too
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




,I wondering which DAC is more higher for the sound quality?


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Andrew_WOT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wondering why this reviewer called MicroDAC and Stello DA100 an easy win over Pico?
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/3745641-post3.html
 I spent more than an hour yesterday using two inputs on GS-1, switching between DA100 and Pico. Honestly I cannot tell for sure which one I liked better, Pico is brighter which helps with details accentuation, Stello has more weight and sounds smoother, more analogue, that can also be perceived as diffused. The jury is still on, and I need to give Stello another listen with fresher ears, but based on preliminary results the performance of the Pico's DAC is just stunning. The onboard amp is definitely not a fair match for this jewel. 
 Pico is not desktop amp replacement, it's a desktop DAC replacement. 
 Still befuddled on how this






 can effectively compete with this?






 Hats off to Justin, truly outstanding work. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_


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## Andrew_WOT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Qosmio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow..Sweet..im a pico user too
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




,I wondering which DAC is more higher for the sound quality?_

 

Does Pico's DAC hold you back, have you tried to pair it with some decent desktop amp? 
 I'd love to hear too if there is anything under 1k that can significantly outperform this DAC.


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## Qosmio

Nope never tried pair with desktop amp actually i have tube desk amp (doge 6210) but i dont have the cables mini to rca
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.Just curious how many percent is the different SQ when you pair with GS1? I really tempting with GS1 actually
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Andrew_WOT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does Pico's DAC hold you back, have you tried to pair it with some decent desktop amp? 
 I'd love to hear too if there is anything under 1k that can significantly outperform this DAC._


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## Icarium

I use my Yamamoto HA-02 exclusively with the Yamamoto HA-02 and it scales wonderfully.


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## pageman99

OK, I've spent quality time tonight making an unfair comparison between the PIco and my SACDMods Sony (see sig).

 The Pico sounds wonderful and is a bit bright as described by others in this thread. As I've said it has great instrument separation and a lively presentation.

 Where the 'big iron' wins is by sounding 'bigger'. DUH!!!

 I have to laugh, but it's true. If I didn't have, oh, let's say an extra $2,000 laying around the Pico would win hands down. The extra money buys, forgive me, extra sound.

 Pico sounds like music in a rehearsal room. Very, very good, and very, very, realistic. More money buys your the ticket to Carnegie Hall. Very, very good, AND in a legendary room.

 So you pays your money and you take your choice.

 Bottom line. Pico is hard to beat for the bucks. Simply put, it taks a heck of a lot more than $499 to beat the Pico.

 OK, I'm done. And for me, what I've just said is definitive.


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## Andrew_WOT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Andrew_WOT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wondering why this reviewer called MicroDAC and Stello DA100 an easy win over Pico?
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/3745641-post3.html
 I spent more than an hour yesterday using two inputs on GS-1, switching between DA100 and Pico. Honestly I cannot tell for sure which one I liked better, Pico is brighter which helps with details accentuation, Stello has more weight and sounds smoother, more analogue, that can also be perceived as diffused. The jury is still on, and I need to give Stello another listen with fresher ears, but based on preliminary results the performance of the Pico's DAC is just stunning. The onboard amp is definitely not a fair match for this jewel. 
 Pico is not desktop amp replacement, it's a desktop DAC replacement. _

 

Well, I definitely needed a fresher ears to hear the difference. It is there and not a small one. Pico with its brighter and forward sounding signature indeed does a great job on the details extraction, and with fatigued ears can be even perceived as having more resolution than Stello.
 Stello, on the other hand, has fuller body, liquidly flowing sound, with all the details still there but seamlessly integrated with the rest of the music canvas, not jumping out and bringing all your attention to them like on Pico. Plus the sound is much bigger and truly three-dimensional, on Pico everything sounds more closed in and flatter. Details are great, but it lacks that mellow, analogish musicality of Stello that just makes ears melt. Harsh would probably be a too strong of a word, but that what comes to my mind comparing Pico to it. And one more observation, the details on Pico are somewhat just hang in the air, like there is some sort of disconnect, lack of cohesion between notes, or lack of meat on bones, something similar to DT880 signature, I guess dry would be a proper term for that.
 It is still a great DAC, and what it accomplishes for its size in comparison with big dogs is truly amazing. Bet desktop version with a healthier PSU, if Justin ever makes one, will top most of the 1K competitors.


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## kostalex

Iron_Dreamer,

 how would you rate Pico DAC vs Meier Opera DAC?


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## Iron_Dreamer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kostalex* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Iron_Dreamer,

 how would you rate Pico DAC vs Meier Opera DAC?_

 

Hard to say specifically, since I only auditioned the Opera for a few weeks and that was quite a while ago. I would think that the Pico would at least be competitive, though, as its' performance is comparable to other DACs I tried alongside the Opera.


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## mmuse

How do you make Pico a DAC only in the rig?

 I have a DV336i, and I need a decent DAC. Someone on this thread has mentioned that "Pico DAC is a desktop DAC replacement, but not a desktop Amp replacement" (which is exactly what I need). Plus, I can use Pico on road trips w/o bring my DV336i. More bang for the bucks, that is if I can really make Pico a DAC only solution at work.


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## grawk

Sure. Just use 1/8" to rca cables.


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## Andrew_WOT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mmuse* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How do you make Pico a DAC only in the rig?

 I have a DV336i, and I need a decent DAC. Someone on this thread has mentioned that "Pico DAC is a desktop DAC replacement, but not a desktop Amp replacement" (which is exactly what I need). Plus, I can use Pico on road trips w/o bring my DV336i. More bang for the bucks, that is if I can really make Pico a DAC only solution at work._

 

Just run mini to RCA cable, like Zu Pivot, from headphone out to your amp. I use low gain at 3 o'clock volume, IronDreamer maxes it out, try to find volume which works best for your amp.


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## mmuse

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Andrew_WOT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just run mini to RCA cable, like Zu Pivot, from headphone out to your amp. I use low gain at 3 o'clock volume, IronDreamer maxes it out, try to find volume which works best for your amp._

 

So, it's like treating the Pico as a pre-amp? Without using the line-out, wouldn't Pico's headphone out distort the sound/soundstage? It just feel weird doing it that way...


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## Andrew_WOT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mmuse* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, it's like treating the Pico as a pre-amp? Without using the line-out, wouldn't Pico's headphone out distort the sound/soundstage? It just feel weird doing it that way..._

 

Look at that as a variable line-out. Nothing gets distorted, all DACs have amp section after DAC chip anyway, so this is not that much different. That was discussed numerous times already.


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## purk

Just want report that I have pretty good result using my L3000 with the PICO at work. The Pico seems to work better with lower impedance headphones (I will need to try more) than higher impedance headphone like Senn HD-650.


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## Ymer

That's something I'd like to ask: how does a Pico fare with Sennheiser HD-650s, BeyerDynamic DT-990s, AT L3000s and so on?

 I'm upgrading from a HeadFive, so it will probably do better with any of those, right?

 Thanks


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## purk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ymer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's something I'd like to ask: how does a Pico fare with Sennheiser HD-650s, BeyerDynamic DT-990s, AT L3000s and so on?

 I'm upgrading from a HeadFive, so it will probably do better with any of those, right?

 Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The Pico does admirable job with the L3000 although I feel its struggle a little bit the HD-650. Of course, the Pico has a good way to go to equal my DHA3000 but its sound very very nice with the L3000. Might be a bit boomy for the L3000 but you can't get better deal than this.


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## kodreaming

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Andrew_WOT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Look at that as a variable line-out. Nothing gets distorted, all DACs have amp section after DAC chip anyway, so this is not that much different. That was discussed numerous times already._

 

Sorry to bring this old thread up. 

 But basically I can use Pico solely as a DAC if I use a mini to rca cable to feed my desktop amp ?


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## robojack

Great review, Iron_Dreamer! But I can't but seeing this as a lopsided fight, seeing how the Pico came much later than the Hornet. Add the Predator into your equation, and then we'd have a very interesting 4-way battle.


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## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kodreaming* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry to bring this old thread up. 

 But basically I can use Pico solely as a DAC if I use a mini to rca cable to feed my desktop amp ?_

 

Yep - I use it as a preamp to feed a Dark Voice 336i tube amp from my iBook in my basement rig, since the old iBook doesn't have optical out like my Macbook or iMac.


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## Iron_Dreamer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *robojack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great review, Iron_Dreamer! But I can't but seeing this as a lopsided fight, seeing how the Pico came much later than the Hornet. Add the Predator into your equation, and then we'd have a very interesting 4-way battle._

 

Well the Hornet was use for several reasons. First and foremost, I had easy access to one. Second, it is a very common and well-known portable able, which can act as a point of reference for many people. Lastly, the Predator's amp section is known to be extremely similar to the Hornet.

 Want a Pico/Predator comparison? Got a Predator to send me? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Otherwise, it might happen at CanJam.


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## Currawong

I just found this thread linked from another asking about the Pico DAC. Since now the DAC can be bought by itself, with RCA outs, I figured it's worth a bump, as many people are asking about it. I'm also thinking of setting up a travel rig for later this year, and the Pico or Pico DAC are on my list of possible purchases. Thanks for the great review.


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## pearljam5000

sorry for bumping this old thread
 but i was wondering if the Pico is still a great DAC or is there anything else better for the price?let's say the V-DAC for example.
 Thanks.


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